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Finally... => General Discussion => Topic started by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 10:14:43 am

Title: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 10:14:43 am

I suppose it's time for a new EU thread, with all the events going on there at the moment.

Let's keep it friendly, don't get personal, and if you catch yourself getting into a fruitless yes-no! or similar debate, please take a deep breath, step back and post again the next day.

WARNING: inciting or glorifying violence against any individual or group of people will not be tolerated. At all.

per special request:
Definition of
- immigrant: a person moving into your country with the purpose of residence
- refugee: a person who is fleeing his country or region in fear of his/her safety, for reasons manmade or natural
- asylum seeker: a person who has officialy requested to be granted asylum according to international law

The Moroccan Dutch writer Hafid Bouazza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafid_Bouazza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafid_Bouazza)) wrote an article in the NRC (Dutch newspaper), calling upon the people to:
"Sing praise to the free woman, or sand niggers and swollen scrotumheads will only pollute the atmosphere more here"

(sand nigger is a translation of a curse word used in Morocco to denote the (very dark skinned) Moroccans that live in the Sahara, but which has become a more widely used term, meaning something like 'degenerate, lesser person', which I learned when working with Moroccan people for 10 years)

Geez, I thought Wilders was rascist, but this guy also knows how to fling his terminology. Damn.

http://www.nrc.nl/handelsblad/2016/01/09/wat-een-sukkels-zijn-die-mannen-1574075 (http://www.nrc.nl/handelsblad/2016/01/09/wat-een-sukkels-zijn-die-mannen-1574075)

In the article he claims that rape, and other forms of showing superior virility over non-muslims, is a typical muslim thing.

I took the liberty of translating the piece I linked from the NRC, since I think it's a bit too hard for google translate. That what you get when poets/ writers of literature send letters to the newspaper :P

Oh, while here in the Netherlands no one frowns at the language used in the piece, I must warn audiences that care about that, that it does have some four letter words, so don't read if you are not comfortable with that
 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

An old Arab saying goes: "When a man gets his dick hard, he loses one third of his common sense".
When my mother first heard that, she surprisedly exclaimed: "Only one third?"

Ofcourse, this is an anekdote about Arab men. De myth of a sensual, tireless lover may seem to be an Oriental invention,
but it is not. It is more complex than that, as we shall see.

THere is a medieval anecdote: A muslim took a Christian woman as a prisoner of war during the crusades. In that same night,
he made love to her 7 times. She asked: "Are all Arab man like this?"
"Yes", he said, and she replied: "No wonder that God granted you victory"

Sexual potence, and God's grace go hand in hand here. Now, these kind of anecdotes are generic, en we will find them in literature of many different cultures.
It is of note however, that ever since the Crusades, the Arabs have pitted their virilence against the assumed weakness of the Christians.

Arabs were surprised about the courtesy with which western woman were treated. That they were allowed to have contact with other men, was seen as a lack of jealousy in the males.
And jealousy was not a sign of love, it was a sign of dignity and honour for a man who could protect his posession.

In literature, one of the prerequisites for being a poet, was the ability to describe a woman. I should write: pre-islamic poet.
But then we cannot but face the big problem of authenticity of said poetry.

In the 9th century, a large collection was established of pre-islamic poetry, written down by philologists that travelled into the desert to both record unknown words from the Bedouin language ('the pure Arabic'), as well as write down their own poetry, and that of their ancestors.
And everything was passed on orally.

Even in that time itself, some of those philologist collectors were infamous, for falsifying poetry, and the present day reader, that gets to read poems of such perfection, cannot but frown.
Note that authenticity has nothing to do with quality, and these (falsified) poems are of excellent quality.

"She turns around and presents a long oval cheek, and parries me with the eyes of a wild animal from Wadjra that just gave birth.

And a neck like an antilope that is not inelegant if she stretches it, nor is it without jewelry"

Yes, an antilope, because the woman referred to is white ('as a polished mirror'), and whiteness was praised high, for it was a sign of wealth: the woman did not need to work in the sun, and could stay in her tent ('sleeping through daybreak')

Until late in the 19th century, white female slaves were the most expensive. They cost between, what now would be 1500 - 5000 euros per woman, more than the beloved Abessinian slaves that cost around 3000 euros - their skin was said to be cool in summer and warm in winter)

Why is this important? Not to show that the Arab man turned from a poetic womanizer into a rapist without brains, reduced to a hard dick. It is important that in the search, or rather, creation of a literary past, praise to women had a central role.
Women were lauded for their nude bodies, without skipping the center point of life. It does not take much fantasy to see this as (an attempt at) liberation, of islam's restricitve vision on women.


Now ofcourse, literature is not reality, and we should be careful not to mix them up,
but people lived with this paradox: If woman were treated like animals before islam was founded,
 how could one explain the unrestrained and lyrical descriptions in pre-monotheistic poetry?

In the light of this, it is of interest to note the emergence, in the 8th centrure, of the mukhkhannath, hermafrodite, or transvestite.
We are referring to the transvestite that danced the royal court, dressed as a woman, and surrounded by other men.
Of some of these men, many anekdotes have survived history, which illustrates their fame. Even though those men had a wife, and children (which was a citizens duty by law), it is often thought that these men sought freedom from the restrictive machism that came with the patriarchate.

And thus, islam kept, and keeps both man and woman captive, although the woman's cage is much smaller than a man's cage.

It was western culture, that gave the virile Arab a Romantic glimmer. The 'oriental' painters are well known. And wherever a bedouin was pictured with a woman, she would be white, dressed in white shroud, a picture of purity, and yes, even morality.
Like in Horace Vernet's painting, Judas et Tamar (1840), where the woman sits turned away from the robustly bent over Arab, but does look at him over her shoulder. A coquettish posture. She stretches her hand to him to recieve something, his eyes are focussed on her palm, and his arm is at exactly the same height as his crutch.

She is at his mercy.

And believe it or not, the first person to do this in literature, was a woman!. In 1919, Edith Maud Hull wrote 'the Sheik' (adapted to movie in 1921, with Rudolph Valentino), in which the desert man is a mix of passion and tenderness, whose powerful embrace makes a woman swoon.
 In 2008, Sharon Kendick wrote 'promised to the Sheikh', in which the Arab man does not ejaculate until he is sure his woman has nearly fainted from all the orgasms he gave her (not making this up).

Or you can think about the novelmachinegun Heinz G. Konsalik, with titles like 'a rose in the desert', and 'prisoner of the desert'. Or think about the disney cartoon Alladin (1992), the Arab rascal with a heart of gold.

Now the problem with myths is, that the subject will often start to believe in them. The current machism of Arabs, fed by religion and upbringing, is pathological. Being separated from the female sex from age 7 does not create a healthy curiosity for women, but instead creates aggressive usurpators - in the end, men are superior to their sisters and other women. They are their sisters keepers.
And keeper and shepherd are the same thing, which suggests the situation of those poor women is not to be envied.

No one, that has experienced this mentality firsthand can be surprised about what happened in Cologne. There exists a very deep contempt for the autonomy af a woman and her sexuality, which does not stem from a desire for female 'purity', but instead bears witness to the violation of their own 'masculinity': Simply put, a woman should never be allowed to be free, she can only live under the whips and scorns of male domination.

What retards, what pathetic losers, what trash are those Arab men, that they cannot be exalted by the self sufficient, independent, autonomous woman that sweetens the air of life.
They say they come here for 'freedom', but they cannot stand the fruits of this freedom.

I am flabberghasted and depressed, that instead of stepping into the breach for the attacked women, many women are squeaking and wailing out of anger over people mentioning the origin/nationality of the perpetrators.
But this is the 21st century (female bonding isn't what it used to be), where women rather weep over a cadaver of facts, than comfort and caress the suffering of female flesh and blood.
The rapists will be thankful for their support.

Raise a song of praise to the free woman, or the sand niggers and swollen scrotum heads will only pollute the atmosphere and life here even more.

In other news, there's a scandal now in Sweden. Apparently, this summer, at a festival in Stockholm, many young women were sexually assaulted by Afghan men.
The police now admits that they have "kept that a secret out of fear for the extreme-right", after the newspaper Dagens Nyheter (daily news) got onto the story in the light of the new year's events.

The Swedish prime minister says it is unacceptable.
The police now admits that 'large numbers of sexual assaults have taken place, and dozens of men have been arrested".
According to police chief Peter Ågren, "we sometimes do not dare to tell the public what has happened, because we fear that will benefit the extreme right Swedish Democrats party".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/zweedse-politie-verzweeg-aanrandingen-op-festival-uit-angst-voor-extreemrechts~a4222508/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/zweedse-politie-verzweeg-aanrandingen-op-festival-uit-angst-voor-extreemrechts%7Ea4222508/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 11, 2016, 10:35:35 am

PTW the inevitable descent into madness.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c1/c6/eb/c1c6eb36b358864d60d95bfda39c593b.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:52:46 am

PTW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 10:55:54 am

Last sunday, there were two separate incidents in the center of Cologne, where groups of white men attacked foreigners. Six Pakistani were surrounded and attacked by about 20 men, and 10 men ganged up on one Syrian. Two Pakistani and the Syrian were injured in the attacks.
According to the police, the attacks were coordinated via social media.
Around 100 people were arrested by the police, but those have all been released, save two of them who ignored police commands. None of them were labelled suspect in the attacks.

Minister of the Justice department, Heiko Maas says: "No matter how bad the new year's attacks were, one thing remains clear: there is no justification of agitation against forgeigners. It almost looks like some people were waiting for the new year's events in Köln to happen, to give them an excuse."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 11, 2016, 11:00:33 am

PTWatching

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 11:01:30 am

Maybe you should just rename it the 'Refugee discussion threat that will get locked soon anyway'. Remember the Russia threads? They were the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 11:08:01 am

I guess I forgot one rule, try to be constructive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 11, 2016, 11:11:41 am

Maybe consider some Bay12 chatroom with a link in this thread to discuss such heated topics?

I would love to discuss migrants, nationalism, tolerance, Islam and stuff but is is more toxic than Russia threads

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 11:13:03 am

I don't see why sharing news about the EU, which at this moment happens to be mostly about refugees and new year, should be half-censored in any such way.
It's starting to look like political correctness is becoming the worst enemy of free speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 11, 2016, 11:15:23 am

Because some guys can't handle the heat and annoy Toady with reports?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 11:16:49 am

Meh then we can just as well close the entire general discussion forum altogether, perhaps life advice too.
Besides, so far, I am not aware there's anything report-worthy in this thread.
Best I can do is when I am online, and see things heat up, is lock it temporarily. But I'm not always online though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: inteuniso on January 11, 2016, 11:41:58 am

PTW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 11, 2016, 11:49:59 am

Posting to watch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Trapezohedron on January 11, 2016, 12:27:46 pm

Seeing as everyone is waiting for this to crash and burn, and as much as I'd like to contribute constructively to the discussion, I do not know much of western politics and thus... have nothing to offer.

I guess, maybe the final EU thread should be an IRC link instead, with fair warnings not to participate if you are below the age of 18, or very sensitive to topics such as these. :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on January 11, 2016, 12:45:08 pm

Allright. Changing topic maybe?
Martin Schulz did it again. After claiming the large political shift "looked like a coup" back in december (the ruling party was kicked out after the elections. And the new dominating party is partying hard trying to replace anything and anyone with their people).

Now he's saying Polish democracy will be "Putin Style".

Considering that PiS is basically doing whatever the hell they please short of announcing Christian Sharia he might have half a point there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 11, 2016, 12:59:57 pm

Yeah, the powergrab on the media and justice department has costs them points with the EU already. The other side of the story I hear though is, that the current blitzkrieg of replacing key figures and controlling the media is nescessary, to get rid of the deeply rooted corruption that came with the previous government.

More other news:

In a 2-hour long interview, of which part one was published today in the German Bild magazine, president Putin has blamed the NATO, and it's expansionist policies, for being the sole reason for all crises in Europe.
"the NATO and the US wanted a complete victory over the Soviet Union, and they wanted to be the only ones to sit on Europe's throne. But now that they are sitting on it, they are facing all these crises that would not have been otherwise".

Russia is not against cooperation with Europe, especially Germany, according to Putin. "Despite the help of anti-Russian propaganda, the German mass media has not succeeded in damaging our feelings of sympathy towards Germany".
Putin furthermore stresses that Europe and Russia will need to cooperate better in combating terrorism.

He also refuted the accusations of aggression. The joining of the Crimea area with Russia is regarded by the international community as an act of expansion, but Putin claims that "our soldiers have only prevented Ukrainian forces from denying freedom of expression to the people in Crimea". With this, he is referring to the referendum that was held before the annexation, in which a large majority voted for joining Russia.
"For me, it's not about borders, or state territory, it's about the wellbeing of the people".

With this, Putin is trying to hold a mirror in the face of Europe. "If the Kosovars have the right to secede, then why don't the Crimeans?" (Russia backed Serbia back in the days, which opposed the seccession of the Kosovo province, the NATO bombed Serbia to support Kosovo)

About the sanctions in place against Russia, he says "those sanctions are an absurd theatre. They are in no way meant to aid Ukraine, their only purpose is to geopolitically damage Russia."
He goes on to call it a "foolish policy". He says it's not his fault that the Minsk II agreement, that was reached in early 2015 to end the crisis in Ukraine, has not been implemented yet.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/poetin-eu-sancties-tegen-rusland-absurd-theater~a4222417/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/poetin-eu-sancties-tegen-rusland-absurd-theater~a4222417/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 03:16:07 pm

16th for shovelslav

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 11, 2016, 04:17:01 pm

PTW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 04:48:45 pm

Hahahaha, my guts are bursting after Cameron tried to get some foreign CEOs to threaten leaving Britain if Brexit is win; Toyota responded by pledging to stay in Britain irregardless of the decision, based nippon btfo porkine scrub

Also in a rather surprising move, Victor Orban (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poll-idUKKBN0UL00520160107) wishes to try and help Cameron keep the UK in the EU. There's a very unlikely alliance. Somewhat annoying that Cameron still leads the Tories despite the vast majority all being euroskeptic. Though I guess that's politics for you, you get the choice between voting for an Oxbridge pro-EU politician or an Oxbridge pro-Eu politician or the protest Oxbridge pro-EU politician. Glad his cabinet are rustling his jimmies at least

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on January 11, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

Yeah, Cameron has said some unbelievably stupid shit lately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 06:28:35 pm

Slow descent into madness? Nah, no madness, I can respect madness. He started off and ended up where he began, quite clueless. I can't remember the last time in British history the Prime Minister has managed to weaken his own position so much his own chancellors and secretaries had more power than him. I think him supporting the EU might be for the best, God knows if he were euroskeptic he'd probably bumble that up and renegotiate the EU HQ into London

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 11, 2016, 06:38:48 pm

PTW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 11, 2016, 06:57:42 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 04:48:45 pm

Somewhat annoying that Cameron still leads the Tories despite the vast majority all being euroskeptic.

I believe that's because despite looking like a used-car salesman who drowns children in canals he's still one of their most presentable members, possibly because a not insignificant chunk of their MPs are just shy of being the same sort as the UKIP members who kept causing political snafus by ranting about people with different skin colours and homosexuals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Spehss _ on January 11, 2016, 07:55:16 pm

In relation to the cologne stuff, a protest by Pegida members was dispersed by german police with water cannons. (https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-muslim-protest-cologne-turns-193403385.html)

Additionally, foreigners are being attacked by German residents. (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/germany-to-release-more-info-on-assaults.html) So people are getting fed up.

I'm seeing this collision course between the far-left and far-right. I'm thinking the moderates would support the right after how the German government, the media, and "progressive" groups like feminism are reacting to the current situation. Primarily by name-calling anyone that isn't politically correct or supportive of "progressive" views as a racist or bigot or Islamophobe or Nazi. Or saying that what I consider a logical reaction to a sudden huge crime, committed primarily by a group of people new to a nation with different cultural and societal views than what they are used to, is a reaction fueled irrationally by "hate", as Merkel called it.

Is it not reasonable to see an increase in crime committed by immigrants and conclude "maybe we should change our immigration policies"? Or am I being a horrible racist bigot just because of thinking that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 11, 2016, 07:58:49 pm

You can't just change immigration policies. It's keep them out or nothing. Or else what, you think you can sit them down and say "don't commit any crimes k?" and it'll work?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:08:18 pm

It's not like every refugee is coming in and commencing with the raping. I haven't heard about any rapes by native Europeans, is someone hiding those or are they just not "newsworthy?" :V

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 11, 2016, 08:11:10 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:08:18 pm

It's not like every refugee is coming in and commencing with the raping. I haven't heard about any rapes by native Europeans, is someone hiding those or are they just not "newsworthy?" :V

Arab immigrants show up disproportionately in perpetration of sexual assaults. LW, go look up some stats please kthx.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:18:06 pm

There are statistics already? How does it take years to get any for anything in the US?

Do you believe in life after love? I can feel something inside me say I really don't think I like this song.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Spehss _ on January 11, 2016, 08:23:49 pm

Quote from: Graknorke on January 11, 2016, 07:58:49 pm

You can't just change immigration policies. It's keep them out or nothing. Or else what, you think you can sit them down and say "don't commit any crimes k?" and it'll work?

I thought maybe it'd be possible to staunch the flood of refugees. More processing or something instead of just letting in anyone. I've heard that a majority of the refugees are single men of "military age" with no accompanying family. Why not give more priority to the families? It'd restrict the amount somewhat, assuming what I've heard is true.

I was asking more about the morality behind the thought of "changing" immigration policies when the current refugees seem to be...not behaving well. If the only option is "keep them out" or "not keep them out" then fine; is it wrong -racist, bigot, etc-to  want to "keep out" any more refugees when the current refugees are pulling stunts like the cologne rapes? If these were white people the argument that wanting to keep them out is racist wouldn't be nearly as applicable, right? Pulling the racist card doesn't seem a justifiable enough reason to disregard the option of "keeping them out".

I suppose it could be "racist" in that I'm judging all future refugees to behave like the cologne rapists did. I'm not judging them on their race though, but the culture they came from, the beliefs they have, and how they would integrate into the nations they are immigrating to. Is that still racist? It's a big group of people, it's physically impossible for me to know what every single one of millions of refugees are like. But they're all coming from nations with their own cultures and beliefs and practices. Is it not fair to think that a large group consisting of members of a culture would practice and believe in the culture they are coming from? And if that culture is substantially different from the culture of the nation they are going to, is it unreasonable to consider how the two cultures will react and interact when forced to live together?

One option I guess is thorough processing and interviews of refugees on a one-by-one basis before letting them through borders but that would be expensive and inefficient as hell. And would probably be called racist and islamophobist.

Quote from: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:08:18 pm

It's not like every refugee is coming in and commencing with the raping. I haven't heard about any rapes by native Europeans, is someone hiding those or are they just not "newsworthy?" :V

I'm seeing feminists bring up how "white" people commit groping and sexual assault during oktoberfest in response to people talking about how a majority of the people involved in the cologne incident are predominantly of "middle-Eastern or North-African descent".

Because isolated incidents of intoxicated groping are just as bad if not worse than a coordinated mass groping committed by a large group of people. #allmen #allwhitemen #itsnotbigotryifitsagainstmen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 11, 2016, 08:26:30 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:08:18 pm

It's not like every refugee is coming in and commencing with the raping. I haven't heard about any rapes by native Europeans, is someone hiding those or are they just not "newsworthy?" :V

As The Donald would say, "Somebody's doing the raping."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 11, 2016, 08:38:18 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 11, 2016, 08:22:29 pm

To make this abundantly clear: I did not lock my thread, it was Toady. We were not doing a good job self-moderating. If this thread is going to succeed it will have to be better than that one (and the two before it).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 08:42:43 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 11, 2016, 08:22:29 pm

It's difficult to get statistics on a wide-scale for this kind of thing, I find. There are sources available in more small-scale terms, though: 'Recent police statistics showed that in the capital city of Oslo, 100 percent of assault rapes between strangers were committed by immigrant, non-Western males. And nine out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women.' (http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/august/culture-crisis-norway-tackles-muslim-immigration-/?mobile=false)

... cov, that article is from 2011. The number you're quoting is also entirely unsourced, and focusing on the absolute smallest subset of rape cases. It also appears to be about as much fabrication as fact. (http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/12/gil-ronens-fabricated-statistics-about-oslo-rapists-being-all-muslim/) Apologies for the fairly obviously biased website, for what it's worth, it was just the first hit that addressed the subject and I really don't give enough of a damn about data half a decade out of date to keep searching. Fairly relevant:

Quote

Statistics regarding assault rapists:

The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.”

Yours Sincerely,

Grethe Kleivan

Deputy Director General

---

... to the question above it, the natives have still been doing their thing, it's just not really newsworthy. 2015 statistics seem to still be propagating, though you can find stuff on a country as opposed to EU-wide level relatively easier. You might check here (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/crime/database), though it seems to be lagging a couple years behind, as statistics are wont to do. Germany has some 2014 numbers in easy formatting here (http://www.bka.de/nn_195196/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/Publications/PoliceCrimeStatistics/2014/pks2014FlyerEnglish,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/pks2014FlyerEnglish.pdf), and you can pop back to the home site to find out more. Been looking at the numbers a bit myself, but I'm still kinda' waiting for the immediate furor to die down some, so I can actually search google without being buried in a thousand tons of nativist panic.

Maybe some of our EU folks know of some good sources for raw data, particularly more recent stuff?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:51:18 pm

Clicked link by 'Covenant' on quote which mentioned particularly remarkable statistics. Got website with long article framed by large "Have you found Jesus yet?", "Have you started your journey with God?", etc, banners. SEEMS UNBIASED. ::)

Frumple ninja'd me on the rest. (and maybe answered my question? Will click when not on phone  :P)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 09:22:47 pm

... well, if someone wants norway numbers that aren't from five years ago, and again apparently not sourced (or, at least, I dug back about three links before giving up, because, again, 2011, not terribly interested), this (https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet) seems to be about the best site I've found, yet. Norway seems to be doing pretty good on crime (reduction, at least), at least up through 2014.

Seriously, someone (else) needs to go through EU's major statistics websites and just... compile that stuff. Give folks a list. Talk the OP (or whatever the next one is) into editing it into the first post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 11, 2016, 09:40:02 pm

Most Swedish governments are jot allowed to track things such of ethnicity or religion (because of the historical persecution of Sami, Roma, Jews and Catholics), and I would assume at least the other Scandinavian countries have similar rules, so the statistics would be meaningless. You'd have to look at the victim's testimonies and/or interview them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 09:54:46 pm

... meta analysis is a thing, scriv. If you're worried about ethnicity being hidden, compare previous years with the current, note immigration rates and unusual changes in crime relative to the population differential, and see what kind of discrepancies show up.* It's far from perfect, but it's probably going to be better then many victim testimonies, which are about as notoriously unreliably as they get and generally freakishly terrible at demonstrating any actual trends. Good for news, sometimes good (or at least best-available) for criminal persecution, bad for country-level (or wider) awareness.

*An example could be made of the germany flyer I linked a bit up -- overall crime rates for the country had increased by ~2%, or ~100k cases, over the 2014 period, but a huge chunk of that was in relation to things like border violations and similar crimes -- almost all of the increase in non-german related suspects were accountable by those. Numbers paint a picture even when the full details aren't there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 11, 2016, 10:12:25 pm

Quote from: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 09:54:46 pm

... meta analysis is a thing, scriv. If you're worried about ethnicity being hidden

If I'm worried? You were the one to ask for compiled statistics on the matter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:15:45 pm

1) It's Weil am Rhein - the 'a' is lowercase because 'am' is a preposition.
2) You're linking to the Welt. That's pretty much the worst right-wing Schmierblatt you can read without being outright lynched by a mob of academics. It's like BILD for intellectuals, which is a self-contradictory concept.

Regarding Merkel's best possible successor being Merkel: It was mostly a joke, yeah. The fact still is though that no-one better than Merkel is around, really, at least since Steinbrück got fucked over by his own party back in 2013.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:23:11 pm

Yeah. I feel it's important to mention though that the second incident you talk about was mainly ass-grabbing. Bad enough in and of itself, but much less violent than anything that warrants using the word 'attack'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 10:50:14 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 11, 2016, 06:57:42 pm

I believe that's because despite looking like a used-car salesman who drowns children in canals he's still one of their most presentable members, possibly because a not insignificant chunk of their MPs are just shy of being the same sort as the UKIP members who kept causing political snafus by ranting about people with different skin colours and homosexuals.

If you live in the GMG HQ, not under the shadow of Westminster.

At any rate we're all going to be killed by RWDS or checkibandits anyways. WOOOooooo

Quote from: Covenant on January 11, 2016, 10:34:27 pm

I don't know, it seems light on details but it says one of the girls was touched under her bathing suit, doesn't it? I'm not sure I'd characterise that as 'ass-grabbing', which, in the West at least, has light-hearted connotations. This was sexual assault. Or it would have been classed as such in my country, at least.

And there's also the whole 'possibly raped' thing at the top, but that could be in relation to the Weil am Rein thing; I defer that to someone who reads German better than I do.

For me, the most worrying issue is that this young man, a suspect in a gangrape, was set loose with no sort of supervision or oversight, free to go to a local swimming pool and (allegedly) attack more girls. Surely that's going to have an effect on the numbers of young women willing to come forward and report these assaults.

Yeah if you went up to some bird and grabbed her arse it'd be hard to explain to court you were just being light-hearted and soft fingered

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 10:58:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 10:50:14 pm

Yeah if you went up to some bird and grabbed her arse it'd be hard to explain to court you were just being light-hearted and soft fingered

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Hen_0001.jpg/320px-Hen_0001.jpg)

You got some splainin to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 11:02:51 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 11, 2016, 10:12:25 pm

If I'm worried? You were the one to ask for compiled statistics on the matter.

Generalized you, since that wasn't clear enough. Hopefully gentle reminder of how someone adjusts for that sort of thing. I'll admit I'm not too terribly worried about what you're talking about, though -- an increase in crime from a specific ethnic group or groups generally doesn't mean a decrease in that crime from other groups, so if other things are holding fairly steady, it's relatively obvious where a substantial amount of the changes are coming from. Again fairly rough, since the uptick in regards to a specific group is probably going to lead to more from everyone else, too, but better at getting an idea of what's going on than a lot of methods. Certainly better than most news sources available to the public, ha.

Also don't really recall asking for compiled statistics, though that would be indeed be significantly preferable. Any that actually has some sort of existent/identifiable source would be fairly nice, so long as it's actually giving the numbers instead of a mess of spinning analysis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 11:09:57 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 10:58:31 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Hen_0001.jpg/320px-Hen_0001.jpg)

You got some splainin to do.

We've got no fooling around with hens and cocks in the law court
Only light-hearted nandos

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2016, 11:20:46 pm

In all seriousness though this is the game being played in Urbagerma (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMGQAbEA23Q)

American reporter in Egypt reporting on this got entangled with this game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7_PeAvQuo)

It's called taharrush, it's like knockout only instead of knocking someone out you gang rape them, German police investigating (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150813517/Das-Phaenomen-taharrush-gamea-ist-in-Deutschland-angekommen.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 12, 2016, 03:14:47 am

Quote from: Frumple on January 11, 2016, 08:42:43 pm

The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.”

Yours Sincerely,

Grethe Kleivan

Deputy Director General

This is an extremely bad debunking. I also can't seem to find a link to the original report in question.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 12, 2016, 04:11:39 am

Who needs stats to understand that arab migrants are way more likely to rape than native Germans?

a) Migrants are rarely the most moral part of population. The best part of any nation stay in their country and do anything to make it better
b) Magrants have much less chances to have normal sexual relationships or money for paid sex
c) Many of them came from war torn areas, this changes people for worse.
d) Islam teaches that women must obey men. If you fail to see that this promotes rapist mentality then I am surprised.
e) Also, Islam hints that if woman doesn't cover every inch of her body then she is a whore and must be treated like one.

It is not a racism. It is logic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 12, 2016, 04:23:16 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 12, 2016, 04:11:39 am

e) Also, Islam hints that if woman doesn't cover every inch of her body then she is a whore and must be treated like one.

Trouble is I'm old enough to have heard that sort of thing as a common sentiment among white westerners. Not that long ago too, I'm still alive for 1, so there's a fair few people in our own culture still alive who grew up with this being a cultural norm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 12, 2016, 04:40:09 am

Quote from: wobbly on January 12, 2016, 04:23:16 am

Trouble is I'm old enough to have heard that sort of thing as a common sentiment among white westerners. Not that long ago too, I'm still alive for 1, so there's a fair few people in our own culture still alive who grew up with this being a cultural norm.

I have no doubts it is true. But we are talking about statistics and big numbers here. If there are 1% of Muslim male migrants who think that way (BTW, it contradicts Islam in many-many ways....) and 1% of them are ready to go from thoughts to action than we are talking about 1 additional rapist per 10 000 male migrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 12, 2016, 08:24:03 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 12, 2016, 04:11:39 am

Who needs stats to understand that arab migrants are way more likely to rape than native Germans?

a) Migrants are rarely the most moral part of population. The best part of any nation stay in their country and do anything to make it better
b) Magrants have much less chances to have normal sexual relationships or money for paid sex
c) Many of them came from war torn areas, this changes people for worse.
d) Islam teaches that women must obey men. If you fail to see that this promotes rapist mentality then I am surprised.
e) Also, Islam hints that if woman doesn't cover every inch of her body then she is a whore and must be treated like one.

It is not a racism. It is logic.

a) You don't think it's a highly moral thing to do to try and get your children out of a warzone, to a safe place?
b) I highly doubt that. There's less singles amongst migrant cultures then there are singles amongst our western, feminist, career-driven society. Dating sites and singles bars are a typically western medicine.
c) Ghandi came from a war torn area too...
d) this is basically what the Moroccan writer tries to explain in the article I linked. I will not deny that the woman must obey man thing is true in the culture of a lot, if not all of the migrants coming here. It's also true for Dutch people living in the Bible belt, and for our reformist party. High court had to force them to allow women on their candidate list, and they not happy about it. Women obeying men is also pretty much the norm still in most of Russia. That's no reason to call all of them potential rapists though. It's a cultural difference that will need to be adressed in the integration process, rather sooner than later.
e) Luckily, most muslims do not interpret everything that's written in the Quran literally, and just as luckily, most christians don't interpret everything that's written in the Bible literally.

As far as I can tell, the way you put things is not logic, but overgeneralization, which is a stepping stone to racism.
Please try to post more constructively.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 12, 2016, 09:51:58 am

Quote

a) You don't think it's a highly moral thing to do to try and get your children out of a warzone, to a safe place?

Not every refugee has children. And no, it is not highly moral. It is fleeing. It is normal reaction to the war and nothing more

Quote

b) I highly doubt that. There's less singles amongst migrant cultures then there are singles amongst our western, feminist, career-driven society. Dating sites and singles bars are a typically western medicine.

It is hard to build relationships when you arrive in feminist career driven society and know nothing about how to build relationships in a very alien culture. (+many local woman have a prejudice toward you)

Quote

c) Ghandi came from a war torn area too...

Everyone should take a tour to a warzone and become Ghandi (Strawman for Strawman here)

I never said that survivng a war will make someone a worse person. I said that chances of that are high.

Quote

e) Luckily, most muslims do not interpret everything that's written in the Quran literally, and just as luckily, most christians don't interpret everything that's written in the Bible literally.

Who said about literally following Quran?
Quran doesn't suggest raping for improper dress code (it has some other creative ideas but it is offtopic)

Quran is not Islam in the same way as Bible is not Christianity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 12, 2016, 02:21:30 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 12, 2016, 02:01:17 pm

The two guests on this (Polish?) news programme (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1b_1452579086) make a couple of interesting claims (it's the first I've heard of them, so I can't really speak for their validity) - firstly, that German police (or their superiors) deleted the CCTV footage from the Cologne attacks, and secondly that in December in Cologne, notices in German were put up on telephone poles warning people that if one doesn't convert to Islam, and behave a certain way, and if women didn't start to wear the hijab, their children would be murdered.

I think I'd've heard of both, seeing how I'm an avid reader of most national papers. CCTV surveillance just isn't that big a thing in Germany, and the events in question took place on the Domplatte, the plaza in front of the Cathedral, which is rather big and certainly not even nearly covered by the train station's cameras.
Also those were shitty cameras, I read, and their footage mostly useless. Whether it was released by the poice - no idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: XXSockXX on January 12, 2016, 03:08:29 pm

Unfortunately I don't really have the time anymore to participate in these threads very actively and they seem to blow up quickly anyway these days.

Seems to me that with this refugee crisis we're rapidly approaching a point in Germany where both sides of the argument (which is not a clear left-right divide) are going to be completely unable to talk to each other. This is evident in the media, but way more in social media and "on the street". Differentiated and multifaceted viewpoints are out of fashion. A few years ago we seemed to approach a state of universal political consensus, now society is more divided than it has been in decades. Also doesn't feel like the government really knows what they're doing, they are merely reacting to things and not always in a very thought-out manner.

I don't think this climate is necessarily going to lead to things blowing up big time, but the country really is changing.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:15:45 pm

The fact still is though that no-one better than Merkel is around, really, at least since Steinbrück got fucked over by his own party back in 2013.

We've been saying that for years and it's still true. As much as politicians have abused the word, Merkel is still quite alternativlos. ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2016, 04:25:24 pm

Spoiler: low quality fencing (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Covenant on January 12, 2016, 12:09:21 am

That's Lara Logan, right? I remember that. That was horrible. I also remember her coming out elsewhere and saying she'd been told to downplay what happened to her afterward, as well. Too lazy at this time to find sources for that though. LW, husky-dog of the sources-sled, mush!
(Just kidding, I'll find it tomorrow or something).
EDIT: Should say for clarity, she's South African, and also she wasn't reporting on 'this' if by 'this' you mean the Cologne stuff, because obviously that video's from 2013. She was reporting on the Arab Spring, if I recall, and ended up being violently gangraped in the middle of the town square (initial reports were that she was 'just' 'raped with fingers' (I don't know what a polite way of putting that would be, I'm sorry), but what I meant in my comment above is that I believe she came out later and said it was more than this).

Nah I don't mean this as in the German cities, this was during the Arab spring, got imported to Germany

Quote from: Covenant on January 12, 2016, 12:09:21 am

'It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain'. (https://archive.is/GPTmn) Oh Guardian, what a scamp you are.

GMG LEAVE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MUST PROTECT ENGLISH SPEAKING YUROPS EVERYWHERE, ANNEX ANGEVIN LANDS SOON

Quote from: Covenant on January 12, 2016, 12:09:21 am

Scottish schoolchildren attacked as bus passes through Calais on return from ski trip. (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/terrified-scots-school-kids-attacked-7153720)

Well tits. Not much else to say to that really.

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 12, 2016, 03:08:29 pm

Unfortunately I don't really have the time anymore to participate in these threads very actively and they seem to blow up quickly anyway these days.
Seems to me that with this refugee crisis we're rapidly approaching a point in Germany where both sides of the argument (which is not a clear left-right divide) are going to be completely unable to talk to each other. This is evident in the media, but way more in social media and "on the street". Differentiated and multifaceted viewpoints are out of fashion. A few years ago we seemed to approach a state of universal political consensus, now society is more divided than it has been in decades. Also doesn't feel like the government really knows what they're doing, they are merely reacting to things and not always in a very thought-out manner.

Yeah but it's not my fault if lefties won't open their gated communities to my cultural enrichment
In all seriousness though it's not a new phenomenon, societies have always stratified in some form or another, geography shaping its people and culture e.t.c. it makes sense that it would also influence politics

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 12, 2016, 03:08:29 pm

I don't think this climate is necessarily going to lead to things blowing up big time, but the country really is changing.

In Sweden, for instance, which like Germany has had an open door, 71 percent of all asylum applicants in 2015 were men. Among the mostly-late-teenage category of “unaccompanied minors,” as Valerie Hudson points out in an important essay for Politico,” the ratios were even more skewed: “11.3 boys for every one girl.”
As Hudson notes, these trends have immediate implications for civil order — young men are, well, young men; societies with skewed sex ratios tend to be unstable; and many of these men carry assumptions about women’s roles that are diametrically opposed to the values of contemporary Europe.
But there’s also a longer term issue, beyond the need to persuade new arrivals that — to quote from a Norwegian curriculum for migrants — in Europe “to force someone into sex is not permitted.”
When immigration proceeds at a steady but modest clip, deep change comes slowly, and there’s time for assimilation to do its work. That’s why the Muslim population in Europe has been growing only at one percentage point a decade; it’s why many of the Turkish and North African immigrants who arrived in Germany and France decades ago are reasonably Europeanized today. In the German case the important number here isn’t the country’s total population, currently 82 million. It’s the twentysomething population, which was less than 10 million in 2013 (and of course already included many immigrants). In that cohort and every cohort afterward, the current influx could have a transformative effect.
How transformative depends on whether these men eventually find a way to bring brides and families to Europe as well. In terms of immediate civil peace, family formation or unification offers promise, since men with wives and children are less likely to grope revelers or graffiti synagogues or seek the solidarity of radicalism.
But it could also double or treble this migration’s demographic impact, pushing Germany toward a possible future in which half the under-40 population would consist of Middle Eastern and North African immigrants and their children.
But if you add a million (or millions) of people, most of them young men, in one short period, you get a very different kind of shift.
Sauce (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/opinion/sunday/germany-on-the-brink.html?_r=0)
Basically at current rates German and Sweden's assimilation is gonna go the wrong way around and Germans are going to be assimilated into Arab culture and population
To think my estimates were actually underestimating the impact, I am pleasantly surprised everyday
So right now Germany has three options:

• Continue on current paths, get taharrush'd and replaced
• Try to get immigrant families to Germany and get replaced
• Balkan balkan balkan (or surprise attack from Poland, the cheki brekis), still get replaced

At last old French dreams are realized
And they are nightmares

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 12, 2016, 07:29:14 pm

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 12, 2016, 03:08:29 pm

Unfortunately I don't really have the time anymore to participate in these threads very actively and they seem to blow up quickly anyway these days.

Seems to me that with this refugee crisis we're rapidly approaching a point in Germany where both sides of the argument (which is not a clear left-right divide) are going to be completely unable to talk to each other. This is evident in the media, but way more in social media and "on the street". Differentiated and multifaceted viewpoints are out of fashion. A few years ago we seemed to approach a state of universal political consensus, now society is more divided than it has been in decades. Also doesn't feel like the government really knows what they're doing, they are merely reacting to things and not always in a very thought-out manner.

I don't think this climate is necessarily going to lead to things blowing up big time, but the country really is changing.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:15:45 pm

The fact still is though that no-one better than Merkel is around, really, at least since Steinbrück got fucked over by his own party back in 2013.

We've been saying that for years and it's still true. As much as politicians have abused the word, Merkel is still quite alternativlos. ;)

This.

The current trend is extremely worrying. The middle ground is rapidly losing terrain to polarisation. The complete lack of an effective response from the European governments is not helping at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 12, 2016, 07:34:27 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 12, 2016, 07:29:14 pm

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 12, 2016, 03:08:29 pm

Unfortunately I don't really have the time anymore to participate in these threads very actively and they seem to blow up quickly anyway these days.

Seems to me that with this refugee crisis we're rapidly approaching a point in Germany where both sides of the argument (which is not a clear left-right divide) are going to be completely unable to talk to each other. This is evident in the media, but way more in social media and "on the street". Differentiated and multifaceted viewpoints are out of fashion. A few years ago we seemed to approach a state of universal political consensus, now society is more divided than it has been in decades. Also doesn't feel like the government really knows what they're doing, they are merely reacting to things and not always in a very thought-out manner.

I don't think this climate is necessarily going to lead to things blowing up big time, but the country really is changing.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 11, 2016, 10:15:45 pm

The fact still is though that no-one better than Merkel is around, really, at least since Steinbrück got fucked over by his own party back in 2013.

We've been saying that for years and it's still true. As much as politicians have abused the word, Merkel is still quite alternativlos. ;)

This.

The current trend is extremely worrying. The middle ground is rapidly losing terrain to polarisation. The complete lack of an effective response from the European governments is not helping at all.

You've also just described congress and US politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 12, 2016, 08:07:36 pm

In Potzdam, multiple people, including policemen, were injured when a group of about 100 Pegida supporters tried to assault a peaceful anti-racism demonstration. Fireworks, rocks, traffic signs and garbage cans were used as projectiles.
Police could restore order after using pepperspray.

In Leipzig, the police had to deploy watercannons to keep Legida (the Leipzig department of Pegida), and anti-Pegida supporters apart. Here too, fireworks and rocks were flying through the air. Press in the area estimate there were several thousand people colliding.
A Turkish restaurant, a bookstore, and an optician were damaged in the riots.

Also in Leipzig, in the Connewitz district, police managed to surround a group of 250 masked people, who had been trashing dozens of windows of stores and bars, setting fire to cars, and setting off explosives. All 250 have been arrested. According to the german media, those arrested are extreme-right hooligans and neo-nazis.

The Pegida department from Dresden had called upon it's members to go to Leipzig to assist Legida. Pegida spokeswoman Tatjana Festerling said:
"If only the majority of the people would use their common sense, they would grab their pitchforks and drive the elitist traitors out of parliament and courts, and beat up the world wide press redactions". She described islamic refugees as "sexterrorists".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/gewonden-bij-duitse-protesten-voor-en-tegen-pegida~a4222937/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/gewonden-bij-duitse-protesten-voor-en-tegen-pegida~a4222937/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2016, 08:23:41 pm

GLORY GLORY GLORY GLORY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on January 13, 2016, 06:17:10 am

Saw video of the aftermath of the riots in Leipzig. Looks like it was largely an attempt to remove kebab (shops).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 06:45:18 am

Like I said a week or two ago. Kristallnacht 2.0.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 13, 2016, 06:53:01 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/2KPv1Ie.jpg)

Danes must give rightful clay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 13, 2016, 08:18:31 am

Be PC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 13, 2016, 08:38:52 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 12, 2016, 08:07:36 pm

In Potzdam, multiple people, including policemen, were injured when a group of about 100 Pegida supporters tried to assault a peaceful anti-racism demonstration. Fireworks, rocks, traffic signs and garbage cans were used as projectiles.

Enrichment of Germans by Germans. We'll be seeing a lot more of this in the near future, and it won't be pretty. :c

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 08:44:51 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 13, 2016, 07:32:01 am

[...]

*(That reminds me, did anyone post the interview with that anonymous police officer from the last day or two? Where he spoke about if one refugee slashes another's throat, they're told to call it assault rather than attempted murder, as it looks better? Bernd K - or something like that - was his pseudonym.)

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.

Why is everyone in the EU suddenly acting like they are retarded?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 13, 2016, 08:52:10 am

Quote from: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 08:44:51 am

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.

It's not about "hiding facts" from the public – it's about covering your own ass from outrage ass-aults.

Quote from: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 08:44:51 am

Why is everyone in the EU suddenly acting like they are retarded?

Business as usual.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:08:13 am

Joost Sillen, professor in constitutional and administrative law at the Radboud University of Nijmegen (NL), sent in a letter to my newspaper today about what's happening in Poland.
I took the liberty to translate:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Constitutional State really is in peril in Poland

The previous Polish government abused their power, true.
But what is happening now, has no precedent.

Today, the European Commission wil plead for measures against Poland, for severly violating their constitional State, the Frankfurter Allgemeine reported last Sunday.

As the Polish constitutional state is being torn down fast, there isn't much debate in the Dutch newspapers about the important developments in this important EU country, which is only one hour's flight away from ours.
Most, if not all reports are about the new Media Law, and not much more.

This newspaper did print a letter by the Polish journalist Agniezka Kolakowska, who calls it "shocking", that foreign media report about the Polish developments, and believe in the "propaganda", and the "absurd accusations of fascism, nazism, etcetera, by the Polish elite, with complete disregard of the facts"
Those accusations need to be refuted.
What is happening in Poland?

This spring, the conservative Law and Justice party won the presidential elections.
This autumn, the party gained an absolute majority in both houses of parliament.
Immediatly following this, the new rulers set their sights on the sole office that still stood between them and absolute power: the Constitutional Court.
This court has the power to put new parliamentary laws to the test of the Constitution, which, in a young, fragile democracy like Poland's, is an essential power to protect citizens against unrestrained government power.
Right now, both it's independence, as well as it's readiness to act are being undermined.

The victory for Law and Justice did not come unexpected. With this in mind, the previous, mostly progressive government, appointed five new judges for the Constitutional Court, out of 15 judges total.

There only were 3 vacancies however. It wouldn't be until december (2015) that 2 more vacancies would open up.
Now the newly appointed president simply refused to officialy swear in the five new judges.
Instead, in december the new parliament appointed 5 new judges, in disregard of an explicit order by the Constitutional Court itself, and those were sworn in by the president.

Even when on 3 december, the Constitutional Court itself declared 3 out of the 5 previously appointed judges to be valid, the president persisted in his refusal to swear them in.

When the Court passed this judgement on the 3d of december, the parliament had already quickly passed a new law, which undid the appointment of the 5 judges by the previous government.
The parliament also passed a law, in breach of the Constitution, that shortens the appointment period for presidents and vice-presidents of the Constitutional Court that are already in place from 9 to 3 years.
On the 9th of december, the Constitutional Court ruled this law to be unconstitutional as well.

Reacting to those two verdicts, the parliament quickly passed a new law, that de facto completely cripples the Constitutional Court. In protest, the entire opposition did not attend the vote.

ABUSE OF POWER
According to this new law, the Constitutional Court is no longer allowed to pass any verdict with only 5 judges present, instead at least 13 out of 15 judges will need to be present.
As long as the new 5 judges, appointed by the president, don't show up, the remaining 10 judges will be completely powerless.
And even for those cases where enough judges are attending, the workload increase from having all judges needing to read every case will severly hamper the Court's ability for descisive action.

On top of that, the new law demands that cases need to be taken on in order of appearance. This makes it so that new controversial laws, like the new Media Law, will only be tested to the Constitutional after a very long time.
And then as icing on top, the new law makes it much harder for the Court to declare any new law unconstitutional: even though the Constitution itself states that the Court needs a standard majority to rule, the new law changes that to a two thirds majority.

Shortly after the publication of this new law, the president of the Constitutional Court appealed to declare it illegal. By now, thousands of people have taken to the streets in protest.

Sure, Kolakowska is right: the previous parliament abused it's power as well. But this current destruction of the Polish constitutional state knows no precedent in the history of the EU. An it's happening right under our eyes.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/de-rechtsstaat-wankelt-wel-degelijk-in-polen~a4223340/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 13, 2016, 09:23:50 am

And it's important to note that the TV stations in Poland now will be controlled by the government. Frankly, I only wait to see whether will the new Ministry of Love, Ministry of Truth, Ministry of Peace and Ministry of Plenty be created.

Bless the Party, or else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 13, 2016, 09:29:22 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say"

*points at Trump*

I know, I know, he's not literally hitler, but he's doing the same populist demagoguery.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:35:19 am

Yeah, I think he had some nice long chats with Geert Wilders when he visited the US, or more likely Ayaan Hirschi Ali (Former Dutch right wing liberal member of parliament, anti-islamist,  emigrated to the US because the Dutch government refused to pay the costs for protective detail after she recieved death threats from muslims, and after our minister of refugees has decided to take away her Dutch nationality and kick her out of parliament because she slied about her name and age when she originally applied for asylum), and has been part of the neo-conservative thinktank "American Enterprise Institute" since.

EDIT: I agree on us (west)Europeans being dogmatically anti-racist ever since WWII ended.

The anti-sexist thing didn't kick in till the late 60s though, with the rise of Flower Power, and feminist movements.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 09:50:58 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.

Because it is predominantly the middle and upper classes that have the money to reach Europe post war Syria will be left with a severe brain-drain. It are also (despite what the populists might want you to believe) the more moderately opinionated people who flee, as they do not want to be caught between the extremists.

We should have supported the countries (and with supported I mean billions of Euro's) close to the conflict with handling the refugees. We have now split the refugees into the lucky/richer ones that were able to reach Europe, while the majority still lives in appalling conditions in Turkey/Iraq/Jordan. Not to mention it promotes a policy where ~1% of refugees DIE on their way here.


It is all the result of the world's inability to deal with the Syrian situation. Letting the civil war go on for over 4 years was basically the worst choice possible. But we are still feeling the after effects of Bush's horrible invasion of Iraq in terms of political will to intervene in such conflicts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 13, 2016, 09:52:04 am

Quote

or look at some of the links I gave about DN reporter Hanne Kjöller

Just to precise, Kjöller is an editor/opinionist, not a reporter for the paper (though she might have been at one point, I don't know).

Quote from: Covenant on January 13, 2016, 09:14:28 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 13, 2016, 08:52:10 am

Quote from: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 08:44:51 am

How stupid are those people to think that hiding facts is going to be beneficial to the situation? People WILL find out and they will only be more outraged.

It's not about "hiding facts" from the public – it's about covering your own ass from outrage ass-aults.

To be fair, I think given all the evidence we've seen (hell, just google 'Swedish rape festivals', or look at some of the links I gave about DN reporter Hanne Kjöller), it really is about hiding facts from the public.

It's really both.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 13, 2016, 10:31:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 13, 2016, 09:42:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say"

I think you're mis-characterising it there by blaming it on the rise of populist parties, personally. These parties wouldn't be getting popular if there wasn't support for them; it's simply that this support isn't expressed in public, because of the stigma.

Look at Trump. As a non-American, all I ever see in 'normal' online communities like this one is people mocking him, pointing out how obvious it is that he's terrible, that anyone who would vote for him is stupid, etc. I never see anyone expressing support.

Yet the numbers indicate he has a lot of support. It makes me wonder how many people are sitting there silent when these political figures are discussed, people who believe in Trump, or the PVV, or the SD, or UKIP, or whoever, but don't dare to voice their support for fear of being attacked and ostracised by those around them. Is that what democracy has become? Hell, in my country many universities have started requiring men attending universities to participate in courses teaching them 'not to rape'. I've seen many anonymous accounts from students who are unhappy about this, but don't feel they can express this because they would be labelled as misogynists, rape-apologists, etc.

Even in the post that was made just as I was writing this, smjjames came in and compared Trump to Hitler (who serves much the same societal function in the modern world as Satan did 500 years ago).

As much as people might wish that everyone had the same views as they did (for one thing, I wish all the sexual attackers of Cologne and other cities had the same views about a woman's right not to be raped as I do), they don't. We have to accept that. This isn't just a fringe minority - for example, PVV now has the largest lead in Dutch polls by far. Making everyone who supports someone like them, or Trump, feel as though they have to keep it a dirty little secret just breeds fear, anger, and resentment. And when we're making 20%, 30%, 40%, even 50% of the population feel that way, it just divides us further.

Maybe if instead of making bogeymen out of people like Trump, the PVV, SD, UKIP, etc, we instead honestly tried to show our political opponents some understanding and respect... then maybe circumstances like these would never have arisen in the first place.

It's one thing to spout racist and xenophobic speech while discussing said topics and another to discuss said topics without spouting hate. At least we aren't afraid to denounce such hate speech.

Hell, you do know that he's been endorsed by white supremacist groups? Not extremely overtly, but the support is there.

Being American, I'm not familiar with the behavior of PVV, SD, etc, other than generally hearing about their far-right populism. I've heard quite a bit about UKIP though which sound like the far right wing of the Republican party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 12:28:07 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 13, 2016, 10:31:17 am

Being American, I'm not familiar with the behavior of PVV, SD, etc, other than generally hearing about their far-right populism. I've heard quite a bit about UKIP though which sound like the far right wing of the Republican party.

Well, I can't really speak for my neighbouring countries, but here's my thoughts on the position of populism in Dutch politics:

The current refugee crisis is not what has made Wilders populist party (PVV) suddenly rise to power.
Populists have been gaining support, and peaking in polls for nearly 20 years now.
While part of their electoral succes undoubtedly stems from the support of anti-immigrant, anti-islam or otherwise generally racist voters,
their strongest power base stems from a general discontent amongst the electorate, with the government that rules them.
Anti-EU sentiment being a big one there. One main slogan for the populists has been, is, and will be "We will not let Europe shove shit down our throats and take away our national democratic rights!"

Another big one is the destruction of social security, that has been ongoing in Europe ever since Thatcher, and went into overdrive with the convergence to the Euro and the Treaty of Lisbon.

Traditionally, we have always had the labour party (PvdA), that would stand up for the worker's rights, and social security for the sick, elderly and poor, and which could find enough voting backup amongst left wing opposition, and coalition partners from the christian democrats, to provide a balanced counterweight for keeping our welfare state from succumbing to neo-conservative views of the 'liberal' party (VVD).

But there has been a shift of balance in 1995, when the PvdA made a 180, and decided that forming unbalanced coalition governments with the neo-conservative party, was worth sacrificing standing up for labour rights and social security, and going full "EU über alles" for. Their foreman literally said in his speech that "it is time to shake off our ideological feathers"

This left a large part of their electorate, mostly lower income class workers, and social liberals completely desillusioned.
At first, this gap was for one part filled by small local parties, which although populist, were too scattered to get much influence in national government, for another by the socialist party (SP), and to a lesser extent, the green liberal (pro-EU) party (Groen Links).

This changed when Pim Fortuijn, former member of one of these local parties, got kicked out of his local party, and formed his own nationally-oriented party called LPF, in 2002.
Now the LPF was a populist party pur sang. Their main slogan was that they thought the current government stood too far away from the people in their ivory tower. And that's exactly what the desillusioned voters wanted to hear. They did adress the issue of failed multi-culturalism, but it was nowhere near as prominent, nor as racist or hate inciting back then, as Wilders' current retoric is, nor was it the main reason for their electoral success. It was the first time however, that talking about multicultural problems was lifted from it's taboo in the political arena.

With Pim Fortuyn being a charismatic media person, LPF was soon hyped, and polls predicted that it was very possible that he would become the next prime minister.
But then, on the 6th of may 2002, he was murdered by a left-wing activist. Volkert van der Graaff, a lawyer specializing in environmentalist cases, ambushed him when he exited the media complex right after an interview, and shot him in the head. He motivated his actions before the court by stating that in his opinion "Pim Fortuijn was a danger to the weak amongst society".

In the subsequent elections, the LPF, despite their main candidate being dead, won 26 seats in parliament, which gave them a position in government. The left wing opposition parties see some loss, probably due to the killer's alleged affiliation.

From this point on, the LPF starts profiling itself more and more against immigrants. Not before too long though, the party disintegrates because of internal arguments and mudslinging.

What remains though, is the lingering public debate on multiculturalism and immigration.
When in 2004, Dutch entertainer Theo van Gogh is shot dead with 8 bullets in broad daylight by a muslim extremist, who pins a note on his dead chest with a knife, threatening Ayaan Hirschi Ali that she is next, things go south pretty quickly. Our national thinktank, the Clingendael Institute, says the murder of van Gogh has had much more of an impact on anti-islam sentiment than 9/11 ever had.

At first there's Rita Verdonk, who secedes from the VVD, and forms her own 'Proud on the Netherlands' party, promising less immigration.
She lacks any charisma though, and after a few political missteps, she and her party sink into oblivion.
In 2004, Geert Wilders also secedes from the VVD to form a one man party, which he later turns into the 'Party for Freedom', which first joins the elections in 2006, gaining 9 seats in parliament, which is pretty significant for a newcomer. Ever since, he has been slowly rising in popularity, with a small dip after a government fell which was 'endorsed' by his party.

Now what Wilders is doing differently than the other populist parties before him (except the LPF), is that while he uses anti-islam and anti immigration as a very important tool for hyping, he also keeps stressing that he wants out of the EU, that he wants our poor elderly to get proper care, that he wants people who work to have a decent income, and that more money will go to schools and hospitals.
More generally, he is going back to the basics that got LPF to peak out of nowhere;
He is saying that the current government, as well as the opposition have lost all contact with the people.
 
What has helped him a lot with the anti-EU part is the fact that a majority of the Dutch voted NO! when a referendum was held on the European Constitution in juli 2005. The Treaty of Lisbon that circumvented that, is still a painful issue for a lot of Dutch voters.

Him appearing on the media all the time to cry for social rights and promise old ladies they'll get cleaned more often has drawn a lot of lower income class voters that used to vote labour or socialist, to vote for him. The media's lust for hype is partly to blame there. The socialist party's foreman is less charismatic, and too polite too shout as loudly, so that has less media value.

But what I'm trying to say is that, even without the refugee crisis, or the Paris attack, his party was peaking big regularily in the polls, and not just because, foreigners, but largely, because general discontent and lack of solid presentation of any alternative.
Not saying that the refugee crisis or Paris doesn't benefit him though. Wilders is a very shrewd spin doctor, and should not be underestimated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 13, 2016, 05:07:50 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 09:50:58 am

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.
Because it is predominantly the middle and upper classes that have the money to reach Europe post war Syria will be left with a severe brain-drain. It are also (despite what the populists might want you to believe) the more moderately opinionated people who flee, as they do not want to be caught between the extremists.

("refugees")
Anyways who cares, this is good for everyone except Sweden and Germany... And Italy... France... Greece... Serbia... Denmark... Croatia... Erm...
On the bright side Germany will be a new nation ripe for D&C, disunity in diversity for maximum checki brecki and dissolution of the dildocracy

Quote from: Antioch on January 13, 2016, 09:50:58 am

We should have supported the countries (and with supported I mean billions of Euro's) close to the conflict with handling the refugees. We have now split the refugees into the lucky/richer ones that were able to reach Europe, while the majority still lives in appalling conditions in Turkey/Iraq/Jordan. Not to mention it promotes a policy where ~1% of refugees DIE on their way here.

But muh signalling

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 12:28:07 pm

Anti-EU sentiment being a big one there. One main slogan for the populists has been, is, and will be "We will not let Europe shove shit down our throats and take away our national democratic rights!"

I don't see how you could be ok with the Union shoving shit down your throat and taking away your national democratic rights. Do you control your interest rates? No. Do you control your banks? No. Do you have a say in world trade? No. Do you have a say in world security? Only France and the UK, whom Germany wishes to relinquish to the EU. Do you control your armies? EU pushing for common army. Eurozone crisis? Well the answer is to give the EU Fiscal powers. Euroskepticism? The answer is to make EU law have supremacy. Do you control your borders? Get out nah.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 12:28:07 pm

Another big one is the destruction of social security, that has been ongoing in Europe ever since Thatcher, and went into overdrive with the convergence to the Euro and the Treaty of Lisbon.

The left wing parties dropping the working class like a hot potato and replacing them with immigrants has left them with only one place to go

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 12:28:07 pm

But what I'm trying to say is that, even without the refugee crisis, or the Paris attack, his party was peaking big regularily in the polls, and not just because, foreigners, but largely, because general discontent and lack of solid presentation of any alternative.
Not saying that the refugee crisis or Paris doesn't benefit him though. Wilders is a very shrewd spin doctor, and should not be underestimated.

Immigrants abusing the EU to blow Europeans up is not something that needs spinning m8

Quote from: martinuzz on January 13, 2016, 09:23:24 am

The explosive rise of populist parties throughout Europe has indeed induced a paralyzing fear in figures of authority and 'politically correct' citizens alike, that's something like "OMG we are all going to be helping the new Hitler rise to power if we say something that is even in the slightest bit similar to what the populists say, or can be used by them for propaganda"

Well that's funny because the politically correct seemed to have done a good job paralyzing themselves with the fear of being racist before populists popped up for the populist party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 14, 2016, 11:56:00 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 14, 2016, 06:15:37 am

EDIT: See, I don't think this will help either (https://twitter.com/tele5/status/687284115884867586).

Quote from: Otto von Bismarck

Die Liebe der Türken und Deutschen zueinander ist so alt, daß sie niemals zerbrechen wird.

It happened in response to a terrorist attack in Turkey which killed several Germans. Germany has lots of Turkish folks, and an established Turkish community. Lots of Germans go on holiday in Turkey. The relationship between Germany and Turkey is deep, complex, and your statement does not appear to take that into account at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 14, 2016, 12:05:35 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 14, 2016, 11:56:00 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 14, 2016, 06:15:37 am

EDIT: See, I don't think this will help either (https://twitter.com/tele5/status/687284115884867586).

Quote from: Otto von Bismarck

Die Liebe der Türken und Deutschen zueinander ist so alt, daß sie niemals zerbrechen wird.

It happened in response to a terrorist attack in Turkey which killed several Germans. Germany has lots of Turkish folks, and an established Turkish community. Lots of Germans go on holiday in Turkey. The relationship between Germany and Turkey is deep, complex, and your statement does not appear to take that into account at all.

People will not see the crescent moon as a symbol of solidarity with Turkey at all. They will see it as an an Islamic symbol and it will reinforce their fears about Islamic influences on Germany.

That has nothing to do with my position, I am just sure a lot of people will interpret it that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 14, 2016, 01:06:36 pm

Quote

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.

Just curious

What is your alternative to letting refugee in? Machineguns at EU borders? Playing deportation game again and again (BTW, deport where?)? Build death camps for the ultimate solution?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 01:53:27 pm

Invade Syria to stop the civil war?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 14, 2016, 01:57:53 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 01:53:27 pm

Invade Syria to stop the civil war?

To make even bigger war?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 01:59:20 pm

It's hard to imagine it being much worse though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 14, 2016, 02:10:04 pm

Send enough financial aid, food, medicine and civilian duty military manpower to Turkey / Lebanon / Jordan to actually make sheltering refugees there, in an orderly, and humane way logistically feasible. Treat it like a global disaster like the Himalaya earthquake or the Haïti typhoon, and get the aid caravan circus going.Then hire Australian coastguard to patrol the Mediterrenean, and Canadian Rangers to patrol the Turkish border. Doesn't matter if it costs 50 billion. Still cheaper than what the chaotic and uncontrolled mass influx of refugees we face now costs, and will cost, or the cost of saving one or two 'too big to fail' banks.

And indeed, what Sheb says, paramount to that, stop the fighting in Syria. Preferable by UN peacekeeping force (let's just get rid of that veto right thing, it is sooo last century).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 02:16:46 pm

I'm not so sure about the "Still cheaper than what the chaotic and uncontrolled mass influx of refugees" part though. Refugees working in our economies and supporting themselves are cheaper than refugees needing all their support in refugees camp.

A lot of it depends on how long the Syrian war lasts though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 14, 2016, 02:19:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 02:16:46 pm

I'm not so sure about the "Still cheaper than what the chaotic and uncontrolled mass influx of refugees" part though. Refugees working in our economies and supporting themselves are cheaper than refugees needing all their support in refugees camp.

A lot of it depends on how long the Syrian war lasts though.

You are assuming that there are enough jobs. Sure, job economy seems to be rising again, but there still is a (relatively) high unemployment level.
You can't just create a million or more jobs out of thin air per year. Especially not once Volkswagen goes bankrupt over all the fines </sarcasm>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 14, 2016, 02:31:16 pm

isis jumping out of syria and focusing on starting same shit in nearby countries can probably make more syrias, huh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2016, 02:39:33 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 14, 2016, 02:16:46 pm

I'm not so sure about the "Still cheaper than what the chaotic and uncontrolled mass influx of refugees" part though. Refugees working in our economies and supporting themselves are cheaper than refugees needing all their support in refugees camp.

A lot of it depends on how long the Syrian war lasts though.

Well Germany spending 17 billion euros helping less than the UK spending 1 billion sterling would suggest otherwise m8y, supporting refugees with aid is cheaper than crippling your own country trying to house the world's unskilled immigrants, without even bothering to go into issues of integration, displacement, assimilation, infrastructure or crime

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on January 14, 2016, 02:31:16 pm

isis jumping out of syria and focusing on starting same shit in nearby countries can probably make more syrias, huh.

Sneaky plot by Assad to take clay from everyone to make everyone syrian

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 14, 2016, 01:06:36 pm

What is your alternative to letting refugee in? Machineguns at EU borders? Playing deportation game again and again (BTW, deport where?)? Build death camps for the ultimate solution?

Just reinstate the old border control except for Germany, then build a tunnel that connects the Cape to Cairo road straight to Frankfurt, deport back to their home country or Germany
ez
BUT LOL LETS MAKE DEATH CAMPS OH FUG MERKELFURHER REMOVE SHOGGOTH XDDDDDDDD

Quote from: Antioch on January 14, 2016, 12:05:35 pm

People will not see the crescent moon as a symbol of solidarity with Turkey at all. They will see it as an an Islamic symbol and it will reinforce their fears about Islamic influences on Germany.
That has nothing to do with my position, I am just sure a lot of people will interpret it that way.

Well it's both, same way St. George's cross is England's flag or St. Peter's cross is every edgy kid's flag

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 14, 2016, 03:17:56 pm

Sorry couldn't help myself.
My mspaint skills suck.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/schaffenes_zpsyd6m3gwu.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/schaffenes_zpsyd6m3gwu.png.html)
Ohsi- the smoke is on the wrong side. Beetles have the engine in the back iirc

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2016, 03:22:38 pm

10/19

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 14, 2016, 03:53:06 pm

Also it's 'Scheiße', not 'Scheiss'. The latter would be right in a context like 'Was für'n Scheiß', and even there the double-s spelling is Swiss, not German.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 14, 2016, 04:06:44 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 14, 2016, 03:53:06 pm

Also it's 'Scheiße', not 'Scheiss'. The latter would be right in a context like 'Was für'n Scheiß', and even there the double-s spelling is Swiss, not German.

okay okay I'll look up the extended ascii code for it. There we go. Alt-225 And yes I know, it's Scheiße, but isn't it Scheiß in a a lot of spoken dialect, more specifically, Ossi dialect? I could be wrong, Abitur is over 20 years ago now, my memory may fail me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 14, 2016, 04:16:21 pm

One of the women who were sexually harassed in Cologne went on the news to talk about it. The video got shared saying she was lying racist whore and the like. It hit 250,000 views before she told the guy who'd put it up that she'd sue for character assassination if they didn't remove it.

Worst part is the only place I found out about it was from Breitbart. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/13/2770829/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 14, 2016, 04:39:47 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 14, 2016, 01:06:36 pm

Quote

Personally I think that letting unlimited refugees into Europe was a very bad idea. The social unrest and political shifts it has caused are very real. The portion of the refugees that will not be able to properly integrate WILL form a new lower class with all the associated problems. Racist (for lack of a better word) ideas will be on the rise on both sides, making everything a pain in the ass.

Just curious

What is your alternative to letting refugee in? Machineguns at EU borders? Playing deportation game again and again (BTW, deport where?)? Build death camps for the ultimate solution?

Like I said part is massive efforts to improve living conditions in regional refugee camps.

I would also say extending the EU asylum policy where a refugee can only apply for asylum in the first country they apply in to include Turkey by making a deal with them would be a good option. We already have multiple treaties with Turkey governing the travel from Turkey to the EU, they might very well be persuaded when we give something in return. That would reduce the number of Syrian refugees using Turkey as a stop to travel to Europe significantly.

I also think military intervention in Libya is a lot more suitable than Syria, Libya is basically a complete power vacuum, whereas the Syrian goverment still holds a non negligible amount of power. Also the the foreign interests that make intervention so impossible in Syria are a lot smaller in Libya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Cheeetar on January 15, 2016, 05:47:27 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 14, 2016, 04:16:21 pm

One of the women who were sexually harassed in Cologne went on the news to talk about it. The video got shared saying she was lying racist whore and the like. It hit 250,000 views before she told the guy who'd put it up that she'd sue for character assassination if they didn't remove it.

Worst part is the only place I found out about it was from Breitbart. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/13/2770829/)

And you're sure this isn't just one of the many times in which Breitbart has fabricated a story?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 15, 2016, 06:24:39 am

Yeah, sexual assault victim: probably making it up, amirite? /sarcasm

They do link the German-language articles in there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 15, 2016, 06:26:18 am

They had some links to a German site, a radio station I think, but I can only latsen Deutsche unt don't know what kind of station it was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 07:22:59 am

A retired police officer from the sex offense task force wrote a letter to the newspaper.
He says that, of all sexual violence cases he seen in the period from 1996 to 2009 that he worked with the police, 80% of all sexual offenders were familiy members, or acquainted to the victim. He says that "most sex offenders live in your street, and were born there. Also, only about 5% off all cases he handled ever saw the light of media. For a large part those are the cases were foreigners are involved.

Looks like, to prevent Cologne from happening again, it would be more useful to deport our parents and neighbors that it would be to deport north africans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Cheeetar on January 15, 2016, 07:25:18 am

Quote from: Reelya on January 15, 2016, 06:24:39 am

Yeah, sexual assault victim: probably making it up, amirite? /sarcasm

They do link the German-language articles in there.

It's more along the lines of 'site with history of making up stories probably made up current sensational story'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 07:34:53 am

The municipality of the German city of Bornheim has decreed that male foreigners are no longer allowed access to the public swimming pool, after many women filed complaints about being harassed by men from the nearby refugee center.

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/judenverboten_zpsnqtza2ep.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/judenverboten_zpsnqtza2ep.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 15, 2016, 08:01:45 am

There's a big difference in that Jews weren't actually harassing anyone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 08:04:09 am

No but propaganda told everyone they were.
When offices of government start banning people from public places just because of their ethnicity, it is time to remind them of what that can lead to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 15, 2016, 08:05:11 am

And I'm sure you can find plenty of example of Jews harassing people. I wonder if that swimming pool thing is legal though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 15, 2016, 08:06:51 am

Quote from: scriver on January 15, 2016, 08:01:45 am

There's a big difference in that Jews weren't actually harassing anyone.

Not according to the media of that time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 08:08:06 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 15, 2016, 08:06:03 am

So are you implying that the sexual attacks and harassment haven't taken place, and that it's simply propaganda?

No, I don't, that's just faulty logic. I do hold the possibility open though that some of those complaints, in the light of recent events, might be fabricated. To disregard that beforehand as completely impossible would be silly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 08:09:02 am

Quote from: Cheeetar on January 15, 2016, 05:47:27 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 14, 2016, 04:16:21 pm

One of the women who were sexually harassed in Cologne went on the news to talk about it. The video got shared saying she was lying racist whore and the like. It hit 250,000 views before she told the guy who'd put it up that she'd sue for character assassination if they didn't remove it.

Worst part is the only place I found out about it was from Breitbart. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/13/2770829/)

And you're sure this isn't just one of the many times in which Breitbart has fabricated a story?

If you'd clicked the link, you could've seen the German paper links and the videos in which the sexual assault victim talks about it.

I check what I post. Can you say the same?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 08:43:01 am

You know, I wonder what's going to be the Thing that will finally discredit the radical "anti-racists" in Europe. Because it seems to be getting ridiculous. Do native Europeans have no right in deciding the future of their countries, or what?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 15, 2016, 09:02:32 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 08:43:01 am

You know, I wonder what's going to be the Thing that will finally discredit the radical "anti-racists" in Europe. Because it seems to be getting ridiculous. Do native Europeans have no right in deciding the future of their countries, or what?

Public opinion is actually very divided about whether to allow refugees in. So saying they have no say in the matter not entirely a convincing argument.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 09:44:03 am

Quote from: Antioch on January 15, 2016, 09:02:32 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 08:43:01 am

You know, I wonder what's going to be the Thing that will finally discredit the radical "anti-racists" in Europe. Because it seems to be getting ridiculous. Do native Europeans have no right in deciding the future of their countries, or what?

Public opinion is actually very divided about whether to allow refugees in. So saying they have no say in the matter not entirely a convincing argument.

Illegal refugees are not "allowed" to get in as it is, but they force their way through, curb-kicking all existing immigration laws in their way. These illegal migrants deny native Europeans the right to decide the future of their own countries simply by existing - they break the democratically-established laws of migration, and get away with it. And there's nothing the native Europeans seem to be able to do about it, because any motion to do something other than to let law-breakers into their countries scot-free is met with witch-hunt-like attitudes from radical "anti-racists", which go to the extent of covering up other crimes these illegal migrants do in their own countries, simply because it might harm their established propaganda.

Democracy is fundamentally built on rule of law. If you don't defend it in the face of repeated offenders, like these illegal migrants, it's going to fall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 09:53:41 am

Except you can't exactly deport them all back to their home countries, partly for logistical reasons and partly for ethical reasons.

I don't know whether it's harder or easier in Europe to immigrate legally than it is in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 10:08:38 am

You don't even need to deport them, you just need to admit that they've broke the law, and exact the appropriate punishment on them, which in this particular case would probably be some sort of mandatory public works, or a fine with a medium-long term on payment (like 5-10 years), to compensate for the economical damage they did by their illegal arrival. But there's no way the radical "anti-racists" will allow even that...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 10:12:35 am

Man, if all it takes to completely undermine democracy is people repeatedly getting away with illegal activities or certain ones being insufficiently enforced, every democracy in the world was dead decades ago, and the natives probably managed to preemptively murder the next several thousand that attempt to form.

E: Not sure where you're getting that the countries in question aren't recognizing border violations as violations, though. Even in '14, Germany (just as an example, 'cause I still have the stats on that laying around) recognized tens of thousands of just that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 10:31:25 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 09:53:41 am

Except you can't exactly deport them all back to their home countries, partly for logistical reasons and partly for ethical reasons.

Hahahaha, believe me the logistics of deporting is a hell of a lot easier than the logistics of human trafficking, ethics were thrown out the window long ago, the only thing stopping yuros is progressive bureaucrats
Heck, the Germans tried placing a 200k person limit to Germany, Merkel shut it down, Germans aren't even allowed to try and stop the influx let alone reverse it

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 09:53:41 am

I don't know whether it's harder or easier in Europe to immigrate legally than it is in the US.

Lots of variable conditions depending on the country you're immigrating from to the country you're immigrating to and the conditions of your immigration

Quote from: Antioch on January 15, 2016, 09:02:32 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 08:43:01 am

You know, I wonder what's going to be the Thing that will finally discredit the radical "anti-racists" in Europe. Because it seems to be getting ridiculous. Do native Europeans have no right in deciding the future of their countries, or what?

Public opinion is actually very divided about whether to allow refugees in. So saying they have no say in the matter not entirely a convincing argument.

They are allowed to hold opinions, truly they should consider themselves lucky

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 08:08:06 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 15, 2016, 08:06:03 am

So are you implying that the sexual attacks and harassment haven't taken place, and that it's simply propaganda?

No, I don't, that's just faulty logic. I do hold the possibility open though that some of those complaints, in the light of recent events, might be fabricated. To disregard that beforehand as completely impossible would be silly.

Yeah rape victims should be ignored because they might be liars, gud logic there m8, same one our police used to cover up the rape of thousands of girls or the German urban victims getting called racists for being raped by foreigners
You should've seen the girl who went on our state-funded show "Free Speech", she got booed by the audience for mentioning her friend was gang raped by Pakistanis, the audience were very tolerant and progressive I suppose

Speaking of police coverups, an American socialite just happened to die after what the official autopsy determined with an accidental autoerotic consensual sex death (http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/01/13/news/_ashley_uccisa_dopo_un_gioco_erotico_-131136036/). Though I'm not sure if erotic skull cracking has joined strangling in finding favour with socialites (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ashley-olsen-murder-italy-charges-man-over-death-u-s-n496286) either before or after having sex with illegal immigrants, consent or no.

Quote from: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 10:12:35 am

Man, if all it takes to completely undermine democracy is people repeatedly getting away with illegal activities or certain ones being insufficiently enforced, every democracy in the world was dead decades ago, and the natives probably managed to preemptively murder the next several thousand that attempt to form.

'Certain laws being insufficiently enforced' is how nations die from within before dying without. Government has rule of supreme law, control of the state budget and monopoly on high force to make all that is the nation.

Quote from: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 10:12:35 am

E: Not sure where you're getting that the countries in question aren't recognizing border violations as violations, though. Even in '14, Germany (just as an example, 'cause I still have the stats on that laying around) recognized tens of thousands of just that.

Tens of thousands, most failed to be deported anyways - out of millions
Doesn't really mean shit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on January 15, 2016, 10:32:07 am

ptw

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 15, 2016, 10:36:44 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 15, 2016, 09:44:03 am

Asylum seekers are not breaking any law, at least until their application are refused and they then don't leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 10:38:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 10:31:25 am

Yeah rape victims should be ignored because they might be liars, gud logic there m8, same one our police used to cover up the rape of thousands of girls or the German urban victims getting called racists for being raped by foreigners
You should've seen the girl who went on our state-funded show "Free Speech", she got booed by the audience for mentioning her friend was gang raped by Pakistanis, the audience were very tolerant and progressive I suppose

Not sure if you're just shitposting, or making the same logical error. Saying there is a possibility that some of those complaints could be fabricated is not the same, at all, as saying the rape victims should be ignored.

Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 10:47:56 am

Rumblings and slow splittings of Catalonia from Spain: http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-independence-not-yet-ready-split-regional-president-generalitat-puigdemont/

Catalonia comprises pretty much all of the Aragon kingdom, right?

Edit: The Catalan region is a pretty major economic engine for Spain, so, I'd imagine that they'd fight tooth and nail to keep them from splitting away.

Also, where's Owlbread? we haven't seen him around in a while.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 10:56:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 10:38:51 am

Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation), just that they controlled a very large portion of Germany's economy (which was true).

Stop trying to make the issue with something it's not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 11:03:58 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 10:31:25 am

Quote from: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 10:12:35 am

E: Not sure where you're getting that the countries in question aren't recognizing border violations as violations, though. Even in '14, Germany (just as an example, 'cause I still have the stats on that laying around) recognized tens of thousands of just that.

Tens of thousands, most failed to be deported anyways - out of millions
Doesn't really mean shit

Man, Germany had millions of immigrants in violation of border laws in '14, on top of however many that weren't? That's incredibly impressive considering the entire EU reported ~630k immigrants total, illegal or otherwise, come in that year. Y'all's real crisis is apparently in statistics gathering, because damn but that's some underreporting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 15, 2016, 11:24:48 am

nullBolt: Not really, the share of the economy controlled by Jews wasn't that large (unsurprising, given the small size of the Jewish community). And the Nazi accused the Jews of a whole lot of things, including forcing Germany into a World War (well, two World War) and of plotting to ultimately enslave the German race.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 11:37:04 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 15, 2016, 10:36:44 am

Asylum seekers are not breaking any law, at least until their application are refused and they then don't leave.

The admission procedure for asylum seekers is governed by the Asylum Procedure Act (AsylVfG). Asylum seekers whom border authorities permit to enter the Federal Republic of Germany or who are found in the country without a residence permit are transferred to the nearest reception centre of the relevant state.
Using the nation-wide system for initial distribution, they are assigned to reception centres of the individual German states according to a formula defined in the Asylum Procedure Act.
The asylum process in Germany
Next, their asylum application is submitted to the responsible branch of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BAMF) for examination and decision. Asylum seekers receive a certificate of permission to reside which grants a preliminary right to stay in the Federal Republic of Germany during the asylum procedure.
BAMF case workers personally question asylum seekers (with the help of an interpreter) on their travel route and the reasons for persecution. Upon request, female asylum seekers may be questioned by a trained female case worker if the reasons for flight are specific to women. The interview is recorded in writing and translated into the asylum seeker’s language, with a copy given to the asylum seeker. The decision on the asylum application is based on the interview and any further investigations as needed. Asylum seekers are notified of the decision in writing and given information on legal remedy.
If the asylum application is accepted, persons granted asylum status and those granted refugee status receive a temporary residence permit and are given the same status as Germans within the social insurance system. They are entitled to social welfare, child benefits, child-raising benefits, integration allowances and language courses as well as other forms of integration assistance.
http://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/Topics/Migration-Integration/Asylum-Refugee-Protection/Asylum-Refugee-Protection_Germany/asylum-refugee-policy-germany_node.html
Falls short right at the point of being permitted entry by border authorities, bypassed entirely
Though with the suspension of all vetting it doesn't really matter anymore, if the law is flaunted by the state the state is at fault

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 10:38:51 am

Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

I've just seen 15 years of mass rapists being covered up by progressives dismissing rape victims as deserving their gas chambers, this is Hitler's world, all he did was switch team colours
Though I do like the irony that the far left's attempt to create the marxist utopia has now created a Europe whose future will only be decided by far right nativists or far right islamists
Have a lefty on it (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bonny-brooks/cologne-sweden-assault-populism_b_8965118.html)

Quote

Perhaps because the police report appeared to give credence to a some-bad-apples-among-the-innocent-refugees narrative that we liberals often like to pretend has no bearing, for a whole day after it emerged in Germany, only the right-wing press in Britain deigned to publish it. In some cases even as late as Friday morning, there were left-leaning articles sticking with the "nobody really knows if migrants were involved" rhetoric.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 10:38:51 am

Saying there is a possibility that some of those complaints could be fabricated is not the same, at all, as saying the rape victims should be ignored.
Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

Why do you shitpost me with your PR damage control?

Quote from: Frumple on January 15, 2016, 11:03:58 am

Man, Germany had millions of immigrants in violation of border laws in '14, on top of however many that weren't? That's incredibly impressive considering the entire EU reported ~630k immigrants total, illegal or otherwise, come in that year. Y'all's real crisis is apparently in statistics gathering, because damn but that's some underreporting.

Look when you're going to say someone says x post some sexy sources you nonny, I've seen enough people saying "there's only x" trying to pass off those coming by sea as the only immigrants or first time asylum seekers as the sum total of all

Quote from: OOROLLOOO MY FRIEND on November 03, 1975, 08:55:54 pm

Spoiler: JUST CITE MY SHIT UP (click to show/hide)

People have very short memories, but these conversations repeat again and again. 2010, Merkel says Multiculturalism has utterly failed. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed) She's facing intense pressure from within her own party and from her own people to halt her social experiment. One third of Germans think Germany is overrun with foreigners, 55% believe Arabs are unpleasant people; so tolerant, very progressive. She no longer has support for mass immigration. 2013, Merkel stresses that Germany must accept more refugees whilst her parliamentary bloc moves to classify the Balkans as safe, allowing for easier rejection of asylum seekers from Serbia, Macedonia, Albania e.t.c. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-01/merkel-s-generosity-tested-by-surge-in-german-refugees). At that point Germany was taking in 200,000 refugees a year. They were warned that opening the door wider and leaving more incentives for people to make the journey to Germany would do the obvious; make more people make the journey to Germany.
By 2014:

Quote from: all claims and no cites makes jack a dull goy on May 26, 2028, 02:19:06 pm

Earlier in 2014 amongst first time asylum seekers (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/9/97/First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship%2C_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png) the proportion of Syrians was around 10-15%, not accounting for second time asylum seekers, fake Syrians (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/migrants-are-disguising-themselves-as-syrians-to-gain-entry-to-europe/2015/09/22/827c6026-5bd8-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html), those coming by sea (http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4) nor immigrants who authorities fail to log (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24583286). Eurostat has 700,000 asylum seekers in total logged across the EU despite countries like Germany alone taking in 750,000 illegal immigrants yearly, set to rise to 800,000 - conservative estimates. Measuring by asylum applications only takes into account those who bother to apply for asylum and takes their word for it. The German panic over how big they fucked up is intensifying after they failed to stop the influx (it has (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11522462/Illegal-immigration-to-Germany-at-record-high-increase-of-75-per-cent-in-one-year.html) increased to record highs (http://www.dw.com/en/immigration-pushes-germanys-population-to-highest-level-since-1992/a-18736658)) of people, after they failed to shovel the immigrants they so desperately lusted for onto other EU countries because they got cold feet(...) the didactic duo are running out (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/668b4bd0-3b75-11e5-bbd1-b37bc06f590c.html#axzz3rCL6Azju) of emergency accommodation on their own turf. (http://www.thelocal.se/20151105/sweden-urges-refugees-to-stay-in-germany)
And in response to receiving 10k immigrants in 7 days the Swedish PM is begging immigrants to stay in Germany. (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/10/swedish-migration-minister-pleads-migrants-stay-germany/)
It seems fitting to use the german word schadenfreude here, how pleasing it is to see when people get knocked off their moral high horses with a sharp kick to the bum. It is easy to see who has helped and who has miserably failed, failed their own people, failed Syrians and Iraqis, Somalis and Libyans and throw in a couple crying Germans and Swedes. It disappoints me that after Rotherham the German and Swedish police have not learned from this and also try to cover up enriching crime

That number had risen to 800,000 a year by conservative estimates, for Germany alone - excluding all other EU countries.
And unsurprisingly we are still talking about German and Swedish police covering up enriching crime, though it seems now they have shouldered all the blame leaving others just as responsible curiously clean.
By 2015 Merkel inquires whether Germany is losing that which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/merkel-under-fire-as-refugee-crisis-in-germany-worsens-a-1060720.html) By then the rate of immigration had its estimate increased from 800,000 to 1,500,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34442121), measured only by those who claimed asylum - excluding those who did not register. That number also does not include those logged as immigrants, legal or illegal. The number for Europe as a whole is set to increase to 3,000,000 in 2016 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-expecting-another-3-million-refugees-migrants-before-end-of-2016-a6722096.html), though I wonder how many times that number will be revised and how many will go to Germany. This will cost Germany by current estimates 17 billion euros (http://www.econotimes.com/The-overall-fiscal-cost-of-asylum-immigration-to-Germany-104404). Contrast with the UK, who has much less money to spend than Germany, who at a time where they have cut social spending for their own subjects have spent nothing short of a billion sterling actually helping those fleeing war (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-to-see-first-hand-how-uk-aid-is-helping-most-vulnerable-syrian-refugees). And that billion sterling have helped more, helped more in need - even helped those whose situations are so bad they cannot even flee war. Whilst countries like France, USA and UK kill smugglers, shut down smuggling rings in Europe, thwart terrorist smuggling actions and otherwise pay the price for Germans tearing away at national sovereignty - even fighting alongside and training Kurds and rebels to retake their lands everywhere from Nigeria to Ethiopia and Iraq, the only Germans who've done so have been volunteers, no state actors. Meanwhile after "Syrians" with fake syrian passports disappeared in Germany (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany-idUKKBN0U904D20151226) the Germans wasted no time in using this crisis to take control of other countries' borders by expanding Frontex's powers without the consent of the actual countries involved. So remember, having border control is racist unless you give it to the Germans.

The crisis of stats is real friendo

Quote from: Sheb on January 15, 2016, 11:24:48 am

nullBolt: Not really, the share of the economy controlled by Jews wasn't that large (unsurprising, given the small size of the Jewish community). And the Nazi accused the Jews of a whole lot of things, including forcing Germany into a World War (well, two World War) and of plotting to ultimately enslave the German race.

Nah the official line was that the Jews forced the UK, USSR and USA into war with Germany, that way Germany was not the aggressor and it was also the liberator at the same time

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/hrMa36a.jpg)

Innocent nazis never invaded anyone, why is everyone so angry - must be jews
They even took over channel malvinas

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 11:39:45 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 10:56:44 am

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation)

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sturmer.htm (http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sturmer.htm)
May 1934 issue: jews accused of plotting to murder all non-jews
August 1935 issue: jew lures halfnaked women with money
July 1936 rich jew touching woman
April 1942: jews should get death penalty for having sex with Germans

and that's just from one single newspaper.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 15, 2016, 11:52:37 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 10:47:56 am

Rumblings and slow splittings of Catalonia from Spain: http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-independence-not-yet-ready-split-regional-president-generalitat-puigdemont/

Catalonia comprises pretty much all of the Aragon kingdom, right?

No, Catalonia is just the top right corner. Aragon is also it's own kingdom (though the Catalan culture transgresses the border between them somewhat, just like it dies with Valencia fish south).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 12:01:44 pm

Yeah. I do believe that the Spanish government will do everything they can think of to keep the region from seceding. Losing Catalonia could plunge Spain into an economic dip that might even take more than the 80 billion that was needed to fund Greece's path towards the next crisis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 12:29:30 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 10:56:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 10:38:51 am

Dismissing the possibility of false accusation alltogether beforehand though, is not very wise, not to mention being in complete disregard of the constitutional state. If you would follow that line of thought to the extreme, and read German newspapers from the 30s-40s you could conclude that Hitler probably was right, and all those raping and murdering jews deserved the gas chambers.

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation), just that they controlled a very large portion of Germany's economy (which was true).

Stop trying to make the issue with something it's not.

Spoiler: O RLY? (click to show/hide)

(http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/staticpages/HolocaustScans/HiRes/1942/19420008000050)
(http://www.hist-chron.com/judentum-aktenlage/antisem/d/EncJud_anti-semitism-band3-kolonne134-karikatur-Otto-Mayer.jpg)
(http://neoneocon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Sturmer.jpg)

That took all of two minutes to find. Here you have the Jew as seducer, the Jew as murderous rapist, and the Jew as pimp.

And from here (http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/11/12/palestinian-authority-cartoon-echoes-nazi-newspaper%E2%80%99s-themes/#), we have this tidbit:

Quote

Not surprisingly, anti-Jewish sexual themes became a staple of the notorious Nazi newspaper Der Sturmer, edited by Julius Streicher. Allegations of Jews sexually assaulting German women frequently became headline news, boosting circulation through a salacious combination of anti-Semitism and sexual topics that were otherwise taboo.

(Der Sturmer is the paper cited by martinuzz above).







Also...Catalonia? I'll go make more popcorn.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on January 15, 2016, 12:38:31 pm

Pee Tee Eff

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 12:40:23 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 12:01:44 pm

Yeah. I do believe that the Spanish government will do everything they can think of to keep the region from seceding. Losing Catalonia could plunge Spain into an economic dip that might even take more than the 80 billion that was needed to fund Greece's path towards the next crisis.

Maybe it'll become something like the relationship between Scotland and England, an independent country in most aspects, but is still tied to Spain economically and possibly government wise. Although, the relationship would be more parasitic than the Scotland-England relationship.

Also, I saw this in the sidebar when looking at that Catalan independence article: http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-spells-trouble-belgium-government-jambon-flanders-separatism/

The recent rise in nationalism is quite the double edged sword over there because there are independence movements within some countries.

Hey Sheb, if Belgium were ever to split, would you identify as Flanderian or Walloonian? Just wondering out of curiosity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 12:46:10 pm

As a Kempenaar from North-Brabant, I always identify myself as much with Belgium as I do with the Netherlands, linguistically that is. Someone from The Hague or Amsterdam sounds more foreign to me than someone from Antwerp or Brugge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 12:47:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 15, 2016, 11:39:45 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 10:56:44 am

The Nazis never accused the Jews of sexual crimes against the German people (except maybe miscegenation)

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sturmer.htm (http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sturmer.htm)
May 1934 issue: jews accused of plotting to murder all non-jews
August 1935 issue: jew lures halfnaked women with money
July 1936 rich jew touching woman
April 1942: jews should get death penalty for having sex with Germans

and that's just from one single newspaper.

None of these are remotely close to sex crimes. What are you even talking about? The 1936 one isn't even at all relevant.

Unless you're saying being gang-raped is the same as consensually having sex?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 01:07:07 pm

Accusations =/= confirmed with police and media cover-ups attempted

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 02:04:35 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 15, 2016, 05:31:49 am

In all honesty I still don't understand why machine-guns at the EU border would be a bad thing.

Just. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees) Because. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-refoulement)

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 11:37:04 am

Falls short right at the point of being permitted entry by border authorities, bypassed entirely
Though with the suspension of all vetting it doesn't really matter anymore, if the law is flaunted by the state the state is at fault

See above.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 02:57:25 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 02:04:35 pm

Just. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees) Because. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-refoulement)

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

The UN put Saudi Arabia at the head of the human rights council. Fuck them. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 03:03:32 pm

Based Saudis never sign any liberal UN shit treaties like we yuros do. /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 03:20:59 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 02:57:25 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 02:04:35 pm

Just. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees) Because. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-refoulement)

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

The UN put Saudi Arabia at the head of the human rights council. Fuck them. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html)

*facepalm*

Remind me why we still have an UN if it's as brainless and ineffective as it is and the placement of the Saudis on the human rights council suggests? It seems to have become a forum for countries to air their grievances (still better than on the battlefield though, right?) rather than whatever it was originally intended to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was money and political favors behind it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 03:40:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 03:20:59 pm

*facepalm*

Remind me why we still have an UN if it's as brainless and ineffective as it is and the placement of the Saudis on the human rights council suggests? It seems to have become a forum for countries to air their grievances (still better than on the battlefield though, right?) rather than whatever it was originally intended to be.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was money and political favors behind it.

Well we tried a UN once before with the League of Nations and that was a massive pathetic disaster.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/8783/original/1200.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 04:28:06 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The UN is basically the gossiping Twitter of the international community. They bark and bark and bark about social injustices but shut up very quickly when someone shows they have a bite.

Anyway, being ineffective is not mutually exclusive with having too much power. I could have the power to blow the heads off anyone but I must believe they're criminals. Ineffective, useless and way too much power.

Quote from: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/8783/original/1200.jpg)

I really don't understand what, exactly, is wrong with that. What's wrong with a state being interested in it's own people and citizens?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 04:34:17 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 04:28:06 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

The UN is basically the gossiping Twitter of the international community. They bark and bark and bark about social injustices but shut up very quickly when someone shows they have a bite.

Anyway, being ineffective is not mutually exclusive with having too much power. I could have the power to blow the heads off anyone but I must believe they're criminals. Ineffective, useless and way too much power.

Quote from: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

The alternative would be to return to state-oriented realpolitik and webs of alliances and treaties that result in something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/8783/original/1200.jpg)

I really don't understand what, exactly, is wrong with that. What's wrong with a state being interested in it's own people and citizens?

*points at the historical context that the Onion article is in*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 04:58:39 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2016, 04:34:17 pm

*points at the historical context that the Onion article is in*

Do you really think silly alliance chains are more confusing and ridiculous than current global politics?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 05:17:34 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 02:04:35 pm

We already talked about this not long ago. People who claim to be asylum seekers must be legally treated as asylum seekers until proven otherwise. You cannot turn them away at gunpoint without saying "nuts" to the the UN and the rule of law and all that jazz. Your beef is not only with Merkel and the EU, but with also the UN and the rest of the world.

Correction: A rule for Swedes

Why should we care for the opinion of people with no future?

Seriously, is this actually how Merkeleli et al run their asylum seeking program? I thought the stories of immigrants tearing up their papers in front of police were a bit much. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12090750/German-law-should-be-toughened-to-ease-deportation-of-migrants-says-Angela-Merkel.html)
Now if you leave safe countries to travel to rich countries, you are not an asylum seeker. If you avoid the authorities and do not turn yourself into a refugee centre you are not an asylum seeker. If you do not turn yourself in as soon as you believe you are in danger you are not an asylum seeker. If you do so you will have to provide documentation so it is known who you are, where you actually come from, whether you are a wanted criminal or have links to terrorist groups, and you will have to explain why you believe your life is in danger and provide any evidence you have that your life will be in danger if you are deported. If your application is successful you become a refugee, given a 5 year stay. If your situation has not improved by the end of that term, you can apply to stay indefinitely.

If you deliberately try to circumvent the system you are not an asylum seeker and asylum seekers are not interchangeable with refugee. You cannot expect to have all the rights of a citizen and none of the obligations just because you say so. In this country, there are abuses yeah, one of my friends went to school with an Afghan man in his forties who was legally an adolescent because they'd deport him otherwise, and my bank clerk's friends with a Nigerian who is clearly not in his twenties; but there is a clear system that makes it bleedingly obvious who's trying to pull a fast one and who's a refugee. Sweden, Germany; these are countries that are not going to be countries for long, a transformation is inevitable with such a wonderful system in place. Just because.
 

Quote

The fundamental right of asylum thus has high priority and expresses Germany’s willingness to fulfil its historical and humanitarian obligation to admit refugees. (http://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/Topics/Migration-Integration/Asylum-Refugee-Protection/Asylum-Refugee-Protection_Germany/asylum-refugee-policy-germany_node.html)

Lol that nazi guilt

Quote

The admission procedure for asylum seekers is governed by the Asylum Procedure Act (AsylVfG). Asylum seekers whom border authorities permit to enter the Federal Republic of Germany or who are found in the country without a residence permit are transferred to the nearest reception centre of the relevant state.

Hahaha oh my God they really do just let anyone into their country! If the police don't find you, you're an "undocumented migrant", and when they do you become an asylum seeker automatically! It's impossible to be an illegal immigrant to Germany xD
Also makes sense since the immigrants tearing up their resident permits would force the police to legally send them to the nearest reception centre, or else face the wrath of Merkel. Germany can't even deport their rapists hahahaha

Quote

If the asylum application is accepted, persons granted asylum status and those granted refugee status receive a temporary residence permit and are given the same status as Germans within the social insurance system. They are entitled to social welfare, child benefits, child-raising benefits, integration allowances and language courses as well as other forms of integration assistance.

All the rights, none of the obligations LOL it's the free citizen of the land principle in action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zHRQn_IShw)

Quote

As a rule, asylum seekers whose applications have been rejected are required to leave the country.

I'm sure the Germans take this rule very seriously, they deported a whole 11,000 (http://www.zeit.de/feature/refugees-in-germany-deportation-flights-laws) illegal immigrants in one year versus 1,500,000 arriving that same year alone

Quote from: nullBolt on January 15, 2016, 02:57:25 pm

The UN put Saudi Arabia at the head of the human rights council. Fuck them. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html)

Makes as much sense as putting Stalin in charge of human resources

Quote from: RedKing on January 15, 2016, 04:12:43 pm

Though the League failed because it had no enforcement mandate (much like the current UN, sadly). Amusing how UN detractors always talk about how ineffective it is, and simultaneously about how it has too much power. Kind of like Tea Partiers bitching about the government.

Those two statements are not conflicting, any less so with governments. Consider the US police having far too much power, but also being quite ineffectual when it comes to stopping crime. I had the pleasure of meeting a former big cheese of the UN's health department and he left because they weren't really worth his time as soon as he could jump boats for the World Health Organization. Interesting thing was, although he criticized it for being useless, inefficient and slow (5% of funding reaching its target was a success according to him), he also said its work was vital and indispensable. Also like the government or the police for that matter.

*EDIT
FIXED CITATIONS QUOTATIONS NOTATIONS ILLUMINA(ti)ONS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 05:36:57 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 03:03:32 pm

Based Saudis never sign any liberal UN shit treaties like we yuros do. /s

Saying silly stuff like this earns a Saudi Salman slap

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/fjiKk0u.jpg)

NO SALMAN, PLEASE NO SLAP

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 15, 2016, 06:55:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 05:17:34 pm

Makes as much sense as putting Stalin in charge of human resources

Hey, nobody ever complained about the state of things under Stalin.

At least, out loud.

Well, not *twice*.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 16, 2016, 06:37:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 05:17:34 pm

If you do not turn yourself in as soon as you believe you are in danger you are not an asylum seeker. If you do so you will have to provide documentation so it is known who you are, where you actually come from, whether you are a wanted criminal or have links to terrorist groups, and you will have to explain why you believe your life is in danger and provide any evidence you have that your life will be in danger if you are deported.

I'll just quote meself, for what it's worth:

Quote from: Me

(Also, passports and similar documents are not reliable signs of a bona fide refugee, because such things are often: (a) forged, (b) stolen, (c) sent in the mail to prevent them from being stolen, (d) stolen from the mail, and (e) all of the above plus a few laps 'round the globe in some druglord's pocket. What's more, denying someone asylum for not having the appropriate documents sounds kinda skeevy from the perspective of non-refoulement... I don't know. :/)

I've heard of a few cases where: (a) clueless people without a piece of paper on them have turned out to be genuine refugees after an arduous process of face-to-face interviews and phonecalls to foreign officials and NGOs; and (b) handsome and well-adjusted lads with tip-top paperwork and plausible stories have turned out to be ISIS cut-throats with literal blood on their hands and teeth and wherever. These kinds people crop up all the time, but ideal cases where the process can be followed through and through represent maybe 1/1000 of all asylum applications in continental Europe, because, well, the authorities have maybe a 1/1000th of the resources they'd actually need to keep the situation under control (numbers are straight from the fundament; nothing is reliable source). Of course one can always "solve" the situation by flushing due process and rule of law down the shitter, but once the laws are gone, they are gone for good, and for everyone, including you and me. Ask Salman if you don't believe me.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2016, 05:36:57 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 15, 2016, 03:03:32 pm

Based Saudis never sign any liberal UN shit treaties like we yuros do. /s

Saying silly stuff like this earns a Saudi Salman slap

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/fjiKk0u.jpg)

NO SALMAN, PLEASE NO SLAP

Spoiler: shit for the shit throne (click to show/hide)

<54LM4N_iz_K1NG> lolol, we sign no treaties and respect no treaties
<54LM4N_iz_K1NG> never broken a single one, hahahaha XD
<54LM4N_iz_K1NG> can you say the same, scrubs?
<54LM4N_iz_K1NG> cleanest fucking record on the planet
<54LM4N_iz_K1NG> we king of human rights now B-D
<UN1T3DN315HUNz> lol, rekt
<HRW_off_acct> oh yeah?
<HRW_off_acct> what about the geneva conventions?
<HRW_off_acct> and cluster-bombing yemeni civilians
<HRW_off_acct> like, literally yesterday?
<UN1T3DN315HUNz> plz no bully
<54LM4N_iz_K1NG>
(https://i.imgflip.com/xg8ei.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2016, 09:20:33 am

Interesting article which is from an American perspective: http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-new-medieval-map-1452875514

I don't see Germany shattering into it's consistuent HRE states anytime soon though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 16, 2016, 09:40:54 am

But wait, if we're going back in time, does that mean we get our colonies back too?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 16, 2016, 10:07:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 16, 2016, 09:20:33 am

Interesting article which is from an American perspective: http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-new-medieval-map-1452875514

I don't see Germany shattering into it's consistuent HRE states anytime soon though.

I don't see it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2016, 10:10:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 16, 2016, 09:40:54 am

But wait, if we're going back in time, does that mean we get our colonies back too?

No john, you was the colonies all along

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2016, 11:32:14 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 16, 2016, 10:07:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 16, 2016, 09:20:33 am

Interesting article which is from an American perspective: http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-new-medieval-map-1452875514

I don't see Germany shattering into it's consistuent HRE states anytime soon though.

I don't see it.

You're not able to see the article or not seeing what the article says? It is an op-ed anyway, not a deep analysis. Just thought it was interesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 16, 2016, 11:47:13 am

I thought it simplistic and not offering any hindsight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 17, 2016, 05:01:12 pm

The German minister of Finance, Wolfgang Schaüble, has made a proposal to the European Union.
He wants all 28 member states to impose a special extra tax on petrol, to pay for the costs of the refugee crisis.
In an interview with the Süddeutsche Zeitung he said: "If the means at the disposal of the national finance budgets, and European budgets are insufficient, then let's at least levy a tax on every liter of gasoline".

Schaüble realizes that this is a very sensitive issue, but says: "Why wouldn't we agree this with each other in the EU, now the issue is so very urgent? We need to close the outside borders of Schengen, now! We cannot allow that not to happen just because there's not enough money."
He continues: "Even if some are not willing to pay, I still will. Then we will just form a 'coalition of the willing'".

Schaüble also suggests deploying the army within Germany, to assist with keeping the order, in special cases. He says that Germany needs to take a lesson from what happened in Cologne. Currently, deploying the military in keeping the peace is against the Constitution, but Schaüble argues that "we need to ask ourselves why other countries in Europe do have the possibility to have their armed forces aid their police, under strict conditions, but we can't. That will not stand the test of time".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/duitse-minister-financien-speciale-heffing-op-benzine-vanwege-vluchtelingencrisis~a4226277/
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fluechtlingspolitik-schaeuble-stuetzt-kurs-der-kanzlerin-1.2820991
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 17, 2016, 05:36:07 pm

Sweden already has huge taxes on petrol, and people here needs their cars to get to places, and trucks to deliver stuffs to the outskirts. Sweden isn't some nice little garden state covered in suburban landscapes where you're never more than 30 minutes away from the city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 17, 2016, 05:46:57 pm

Prices collapsed over the last year though. A petrol tax would be anything but inhumane, and moreover would help in reducing the oil price crash's impact on the climate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2016, 06:06:32 pm

REMOVE PICKELHAUBE remove pickelhaube
you are worst kraut. you are the kraut idiot you are the kraut smell. return to prussia. to our prusia cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,swedin we will never forgeve you. merkal rascal FUck but fuck asshole kraut stink swedan sqhipere shqipare..kraut genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead nazi..ahahahahahSWEDIN WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ww2 .german we kill the fuhrer , german return to your precious rhine….hahahahaha idiot kraut and swedon smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE PICKELHAUBE FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. austria+poland+uk+russia=kill seden…you will ww2/ tupac alive in warsaw, tupac making album of warsaw . fast rap tupac warsaw. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink kraut… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a camp

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 17, 2016, 06:08:18 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 17, 2016, 05:46:57 pm

Prices collapsed over the last year though. A petrol tax would be anything but inhumane, and moreover would help in reducing the oil price crash's impact on the climate.

Quote from: scriver on January 17, 2016, 05:36:07 pm

Sweden already has huge taxes on petrol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2016, 06:10:04 pm

swedon pay the ,kraut gold make rich tupac

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 17, 2016, 07:21:06 pm

WTF?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 17, 2016, 07:29:02 pm

Please be more specific about your fucks?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 17, 2016, 07:30:57 pm

LW, mostly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2016, 07:37:12 pm

Intelligent and insightful political commentary does tend to have a stunning effect on people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 17, 2016, 08:20:48 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 17, 2016, 05:36:07 pm

Sweden already has huge taxes on petrol

So does Germany. I assume those taxes weren't raised significantly in the past couple years - my point still stands: The price you pay for a liter of gas is ridiculously low compared to that of twelve months ago, so artificially raising it again by lavying a new tax is nothing terrible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 06:36:24 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 17, 2016, 08:20:48 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 17, 2016, 05:36:07 pm

Sweden already has huge taxes on petrol

So does Germany. I assume those taxes weren't raised significantly in the past couple years - my point still stands: The price you pay for a liter of gas is ridiculously low compared to that of twelve months ago, so artificially raising it again by lavying a new tax is nothing terrible.

Heard it here first folks, give up your nation's own ability to set its own budget without even a single vote cast in its name because the EU is so terrible this is nothing new

Also brazen Swede cucks openly stating they never claim to report the truth or lies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as4m-dDubjg), that they have no obligation to report what is correct, leading to the world where women are seeking refuge in Somalia to escape Sweden

And the Rotherham syndrome keeps striking again and again (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-are-not-allowed-to-give-descriptions-of-alleged-criminals-so-as-not-to-sound-racist-a6810311.html)

And again (https://archive.is/B1AEl#selection-1953.0-1953.142), with a coverup of a refugees welcome event that turned into a cheeki lad's groping time in Germany two months prior to the nation-wide rape extravaganza bants and subsequent coverup by the police and media of German and Swede land

Quote

North Rhine-Westphalia region police spokesman Robert Scholten said: "The music had to be constantly stopped so that the message could be given out in Arabic to stop men harassing female guests.
"We could have been called at this point but nobody alerted us to the problem."
But the council official responsible for integration matters, Coletta Manemann, who helped organise the 'Refugees Welcome' event, did not report the incidents and has now been accused of a cover-up attempt.
Admitting that she knew about the incident "shortly before Christmas" after talking to students who had been assigned to helping the refugees, she said: "I can't remember any more if I told them that they needed to go to the police or not."
Amazingly she said she later concluded that "the student organisers had learned from the situation" and felt there was no need to make a fuss.

You either laugh or you cry

And in more Putin rage, 13 year old Russian girl gang raped by immigrants in Berlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhiJsBSBOMw)
Have the Germans honestly done the best they can to start Europe's next war?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 18, 2016, 07:30:00 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 06:36:24 am

And in more Putin rage, 13 year old Russian girl gang raped by immigrants in Berlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhiJsBSBOMw)
Have the Germans honestly done the best they can to start Europe's next war?

Merkel committed an act of genocide against white Germans.  In response, within 5 years radicals will take over and start shoving Muslims into boxcars.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 18, 2016, 07:33:24 am

Ok, guys, can you stop the shitposting? It's becoming hard to see who's cheekily shitposting, and who's really dumb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2016, 07:37:12 am

Yes, please step down the shitposting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 18, 2016, 07:47:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 06:36:24 am

And in more Putin rage, 13 year old Russian girl gang raped by immigrants in Berlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhiJsBSBOMw)

Russian TV channel? *facepalms*
It is a very reliable source

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 18, 2016, 07:59:35 am

Heh, it's funny to see LW getting his knickers tied up in a bunch over an event which several close friends of mine helped organize. Newsflash: It wasn't nice, but certainly not as horrible as you're reading into it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 18, 2016, 08:17:51 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 18, 2016, 07:59:35 am

Heh, it's funny to see LW getting his knickers tied up in a bunch over an event which several close friends of mine helped organize. Newsflash: It wasn't nice, but certainly not as horrible as you're reading into it.

"They didn't shit on your ice cream, they only spat on it. It's not that bad, get over it."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 08:22:56 am

Quote from: Bouchart on January 18, 2016, 07:30:00 am

Merkel committed an act of genocide against white Germans.  In response, within 5 years radicals will take over and start shoving Muslims into boxcars.

FUCKING BUY GOLD NOW, FLEE INNAWDS, FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc-gh-3TkR0)

Quote from: Helgoland on January 18, 2016, 07:59:35 am

Heh, it's funny to see LW getting his knickers tied up in a bunch over an event which several close friends of mine helped organize. Newsflash: It wasn't nice, but certainly not as horrible as you're reading into it.

I don't think it was my knickers in a twist, the students who intimately welcomed the refugees against their will did, with a bit more than twister

Quote from: Sheb on January 18, 2016, 07:33:24 am

Ok, guys, can you stop the shitposting? It's becoming hard to see who's cheekily shitposting, and who's really dumb.

Does the difference even matter anymore?
Like on this vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26TcZorLdok), where some journalists are attacked by immigrants at Calais. They got the usual response from lefties and righties, either threats, support or shitposts, but looking through the comments I found this gem

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ipsz1lA.png)

Which is the best bit of Poe's Law I've ever seen
I checked his channel to try and figure out if he was legit or just bants

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/06cemHd.png)

Unfortunately they were legit

We have to reconcile the fact that we live in a world where banter is indistinguishable from reality - satire now underplays, not exaggerates, and editors can brazenly without pretense say to journalists they have no obligation to publish the truth. For F's sakes, we live in a world where the Daily Mail can publish a headline where thousands of girls are used as sex slaves by Muslim immigrants in Europe with complicit support and cover-up by progressive politicians, police and news editors, and rather than the world figuring that's bullshit and moving on with their happy lives, looks on in abject happening that it's real. You either laugh or you cry ;D

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 18, 2016, 07:47:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 06:36:24 am

And in more Putin rage, 13 year old Russian girl gang raped by immigrants in Berlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhiJsBSBOMw)

Russian TV channel? *facepalms*
It is a very reliable source

I found the least Russian source I could find, which is a German branch of a New York based Chinese-American news station (http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/berlin-13-jaehriges-maedchen-30-stunden-lang-von-migranten-entfuehrt-und-vergewaltigt-a1299783.html?fb=1).
"The cousin explained that the police filed no charges against the perpetrators. Officials had the 13-year-old during a three-hour interrogation, which took place isolated and without an accompanying person, laughed at, mocked and falsehood accused - until she had collapsed and the presentation of the police had agreed - namely that the rape had not taken place, that it is only should look like and that they which have willed it so 13-year-old. The girl was therefore forced by law enforcement officers to a false statement on their tormentors.
The family now comes with a lawyer against these measures. There is a medical document confirming the rape.
The German wave published now a long report in Russian, who called the message a lie."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 18, 2016, 08:44:34 am

Well, are we trying to have a semi-serious discussion here, or should we just stop polluting this forum?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2016, 08:46:52 am

Temporarily locking this until people slept off the booze.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 18, 2016, 08:48:11 am

I approve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2016, 08:48:33 am

Carp, how do I lock a thread? Can't find button for it

EDIT nvm bottom left

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on January 19, 2016, 09:31:28 am

Latest news: France has declared an "Economic State of Emergency", Amnesty International has released a report stating that female refugees are at risk for assault, harassment, and sexual exploitation, and Facebook is banning "xenophobic hate speech", which is likely to actually mean "anti-immigration sentiment in general".

Oh, and some individual or group on the alt-right has released a sarcastic parody of both the migrant crisis and Blink 182's "All the Small Things", titled "All the Rapefugees - Blink 1488. I don't even have to put effort into my own shitposting this time, someone else is doing it for me!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 19, 2016, 10:21:04 am

Syrian refugees take to the streets of Germany to protest sexism and sexual aggression. (http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/17/no-to-sexism-no-to-racism-syrian-refugees-hand-out-flowers-in-german-protest-5627970/)

Germany is set to strengthen its sexual assaults laws after it transpire that groping women in the street wasn't always illegal. (German) (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/sexualstrafrecht-betatschen-ist-nicht-immer-strafbar-14007043.html)

13-years old Belgian raped by non-refugees as no one on the internet gives a fuck. (http://www.dhnet.be/regions/charleroi-centre/un-homme-soupconne-d-avoir-attire-chez-lui-sa-voisine-de-13-ans-pour-la-violer-569637133570ed3895132e66)

Also, in case anyone is wondering, that French "economic state of emergency" is just PR for the latest set of economic reforms put forward by Hollande.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 19, 2016, 10:59:06 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2016, 10:21:04 am

Syrian refugees take to the streets of Germany to protest sexism and sexual aggression. (http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/17/no-to-sexism-no-to-racism-syrian-refugees-hand-out-flowers-in-german-protest-5627970/)

How nice, empty gestures.

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2016, 10:21:04 am

13-years old Belgian raped by non-refugees as no one on the internet gives a fuck. (http://www.dhnet.be/regions/charleroi-centre/un-homme-soupconne-d-avoir-attire-chez-lui-sa-voisine-de-13-ans-pour-la-violer-569637133570ed3895132e66)

Do you think anyone is arguing that only immigrants or refugees rape people?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on January 19, 2016, 11:13:51 am

Yeah, I think everyone here can agree that regardless of who's doing it, rape is bad. Guys, rape is bad.  Have I mentioned that rape is bad?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 11:56:49 am

Quote

A German lawyer has asked prosecutors in Berlin to investigate a report on Russian state television that may have been faked about the rape of an underage girl by migrants in Germany.

Martin Luithle told German broadcaster Deutsche Welle that the report, aired at prime time on Jan. 16, violated German laws and was incitement to racial hatred.

It detailed the disappearance and rape of a 13-year-old Russian-speaking girl in Berlin by Arab migrants and a supposed coverup by German police.

Its authenticity was quickly disputed by the police, who say they have found no evidence either of abduction or rape, and by bloggers who questioned the material used in the report.

Luithle said the report was filmed as a piece of propaganda. Russian state television has glorified in needling European countries over their tolerance, and portrays the continent as riven with contradictions and social dysfunction.

The incident has been compared to an infamous Channel One report from eastern Ukraine in 2014, which offered an eyewitness account of the public crucifixion of a 3-year-old boy by Ukrainian soldiers. The report was exposed as a fraud. Channel One never apologized.

While Channel One is not under German jurisdiction, Luithle said the channel’s reporter, Ivan Blagoi, had violated the country's laws with the report. Some six million Russian speakers in Germany have access to Channel One, according to Deutsche Welle.

Luithle said that Blagoi could face a prison term of between three months and five years.

Khe-khe. Russian juornalist lied? How can it happen?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 12:26:30 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2016, 08:46:52 am

Temporarily locking this until people slept off the booze.

"People are posting stuff that disagrees with my ideology, what should I do?!"
"SHUT IT DOWN."

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2016, 10:21:04 am

Syrian refugees take to the streets of Germany to protest sexism and sexual aggression. (http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/17/no-to-sexism-no-to-racism-syrian-refugees-hand-out-flowers-in-german-protest-5627970/)

This is a propaganda piece, and I really don't believe you've actually fell for it.

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2016, 10:21:04 am

13-years old Belgian raped by non-refugees as no one on the internet gives a fuck. (http://www.dhnet.be/regions/charleroi-centre/un-homme-soupconne-d-avoir-attire-chez-lui-sa-voisine-de-13-ans-pour-la-violer-569637133570ed3895132e66)

I'm not certain because Google translate is mangling that whole article, but is the name of the guy who arranged the gang rape "Mesut"?

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 11:56:49 am

Quote

<snip>

Khe-khe. Russian juornalist lied? How can it happen?

Regardless of what actually happened (no evidence either way at the minute), the girl was taken into police custody for 3 hours without any guardians.

Funny how when that happened to Ahmed the Clockmaker there was a big fuss but when it happens to a 13-year-old German girl it's fine.

I wonder what the primary difference is here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:34:28 pm

Because the 13-year old girl wasn't taken into custody as a security threat?
Glad I could sort that out for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 12:35:37 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:34:28 pm

Because the 13-year old girl wasn't taken into custody as a security threat?
Glad I could sort that out for you.

No, instead she was the victim of a crime, not the originator of one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 12:39:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 19, 2016, 10:59:06 am

Do you think anyone is arguing that only immigrants or refugees rape people?

This thing comes up again and again, as if you should sit there and pour more gasoline on the inferno because there's already an electrical fire

Spoiler: also lol (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ORyx6WS.png)

Ameripol get out please we are being sophisticated euroes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:45:18 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 12:35:37 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:34:28 pm

Because the 13-year old girl wasn't taken into custody as a security threat?
Glad I could sort that out for you.

No, instead she was the victim of a crime, not the originator of one.

Victims are taken into protective custody on occasion. This is a thing that happens, especially in cases of rape or attempted rape.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 12:50:35 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:45:18 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 12:35:37 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 12:34:28 pm

Because the 13-year old girl wasn't taken into custody as a security threat?
Glad I could sort that out for you.

No, instead she was the victim of a crime, not the originator of one.

Victims are taken into protective custody on occasion. This is a thing that happens, especially in cases of rape or attempted rape.

She was interrogated for three fucking hours. That's not protective custody. Jesus Christ.

From the source Loud posted:

Quote

The cousin explained that the police filed no charges against the perpetrators. Officials had the 13-year-old during a three-hour interrogation, which took place isolated and without an accompanying person, laughed at, mocked and falsehood accused - until she had collapsed and the presentation of the police had agreed - namely that the rape had not taken place, that it is only should look like and that they which have willed it so 13-year-old. The girl was therefore forced by law enforcement officers to a false statement on their tormentors.

The family now comes with a lawyer against these measures. There is a medical document confirming the rape.

Keep in mind this was supposedly after she'd been gang raped for 30 hours.

But, don't worry, it was protective custody!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:00:17 pm

Isn't that the same source we already determined was highly suspect?
*looks*

LOL Epoch Times...topkek for best Falun Gong news


If I see this report corroborated by a reliable media outlet, then I'll concede the point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: XXSockXX on January 19, 2016, 01:15:17 pm

If you want to find reports about immigrants sexually assaulting women in Germany you can find plenty, especially in the current climate since New Years, media have lots of these reports.

This particular one however was debunked by Berlin police (link in German (http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/polizei-justiz/erfundener-vergewaltigungsfall-in-berlin-mahlsdorf-luegengeschichte-versetzt-netz-in-aufruhr/12844170.html)), it's not worth discussing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:21:48 pm

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 19, 2016, 01:15:17 pm

If you want to find reports about immigrants sexually assaulting women in Germany you can find plenty, especially in the current climate since New Years, media have lots of these reports.

This particular one however was debunked by Berlin police (link in German (http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/polizei-justiz/erfundener-vergewaltigungsfall-in-berlin-mahlsdorf-luegengeschichte-versetzt-netz-in-aufruhr/12844170.html)), it's not worth discussing.

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

It's not exactly a debunking, but this is the kind of stuff that was said by the police at Rotherham before that all came to light:

Quote

+++ Information on missing persons case of a 13-year +++
In recent days, we noticed that the interest of the Internet community in the case of a 13 -year-old girl reported missing shortly from Marzahn-Hellersdorf and the circumstances of their absence are great .
Yes , it is true - the girl was reported missing a short time and is now back again. We are aware that a number of statements to be discussed on the facts in the social media .
Fact is - according to the investigations of our LKA there was neither abduction nor rape.
We explicitly ask for your understanding that we will not give details in particular to protect the girl and her family personality .
We also appeal to your sensitive handling of the issue in the social networks .

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:33:18 pm

Yes, you can't trust German police, better to trust a German affiliate of a virulently anti-PRC Chinese-language news service founded by a fringe religious organization. Next you'll be citing the Washington Moonie Times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: XXSockXX on January 19, 2016, 01:43:25 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:21:48 pm

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:44:54 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:33:18 pm

Yes, you can't trust German police, better to trust a German affiliate of a virulently anti-PRC Chinese-language news service founded by a fringe religious organization. Next you'll be citing the Washington Moonie Times.

No, you can't trust them either. I don't trust anything on this either way.

All media lies. That's something you just have to accept. Purposeful lies, lies of omission, white lies, it doesn't matter. You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

The main problem is that you can't trust any political institutions either anymore. They used to be politicised but the politicisation was opposite to the way the media was, so you could get some idea of what the definite facts of something were. Now the German media and the German police lie in the same way and you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

As an example, the "loony" media source says that the girl was kidnapped and gangraped. The police source says that they have no evidence she was kidnapped or raped. However, they did not state sexual activity didn't occur and they admit that she was missing for a few days. The places where these two sources overlap is where the definite truth is. The majority of the time, at least.

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 19, 2016, 01:43:25 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:21:48 pm

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:52:40 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:44:54 pm

you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

And therein lies the way down the rabbit hole. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, after all.

Quote

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

The total lack of credible evidence is not evidence of the lack of a conspiracy, is what you're saying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:58:06 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:52:40 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:44:54 pm

you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

And therein lies the way down the rabbit hole. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, after all.

Of course. Any sort of questioning of facts is a conspiracy theory.

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:52:40 pm

Quote

The primary problem is that being careful to maintain an appearance does not mean it is not going on, it just means they're better at hiding it.

The total lack of credible evidence is not the lack of a conspiracy, is what you're saying.

Absence of evidence is, undeniably, not evidence of absence. That's just factual.

I have to ask, did you read the rest of my post or did you just cherrypick those two sentences out to respond to?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 19, 2016, 01:58:20 pm

Quote from: XXSockXX on January 19, 2016, 01:43:25 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:21:48 pm

The primary problem is that you really can't trust anything that comes from the German police regarding this stuff anymore. Hell, I wouldn't trust the police of any European nation.

You are wasting your outrage. There are real cases to be outraged about, but this is a hoax.

Both German media and police are careful to correct and avoid the impression that they keep information back. If you read German media (which I suppose you don't), that is noticeable right now. As I said, you can find plenty of reports about sexual assaults committed by immigrants right now, even the Greens are finally officially acknowleding that. If police outright say that nothing happened, in such a sensationalized case, I'm inclined to believe them. If people here kept getting the impression they were constantly being lied to, that would be political suicide right now.

Of course if you are trusting nobody and just want to be outraged...

A question for you, have you ever had to deal with police in their official capacity? I have & they tend to be very good at letting you know, when an issue is not worth your trouble persuing & I'm not 13 & a pretty stubborn person.

I haven't looked into the particular case to form an option on specifics, & even if I had I simply would not know, no real access to the details. Otherwise most of the above strikes me as naive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 02:05:48 pm

Quote

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 02:06:26 pm

In an effort to improve the quality of the thread I would like to chime in that at all times you should distrust authorities, but now more than ever. Swedish police have confirmed that there were widespread sexual assaults at a music festival in Stockholm last summer but denied allegations of a cover-up.
Police hadn't mentioned the August incidents at the "We are Sthlm" festival until newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported on them this weekend following the sexual assaults on New Year's Eve in Germany.
Stockholm police spokesman Varg Gyllander confirmed to AP on that there was "a large number" of sexual assaults and that scores of men were detained.
He denied a cover-up but said police should have reported on the incidents at the time "given the nature of the crime."
Gyllander couldn't confirm Dagens Nyheter's report that most suspects were from Afghanistan, but said "this involves young men who are not from Sweden." (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-accused-of-covering-up-sexual-assaults-at-music-festival-a6806016.html)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/LEZD4XA.jpg)

D:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 02:12:46 pm

The only caveat for that chart is that the color-banding can make a 1% difference look much bigger if it's on the borderline. UK is one grade below Sweden, but since each color band is 20%, that could be anything from a 1% difference to a 40% difference in prevalence. In other words "the difference between UK and sweden is somewhere between negligible and absolutely massive", which doesn't tell you anything at all. They could have at least overlayed the actual percentages on top of the map.

That's before we take into account that the wording on sexual assault surveys can massively change your "yes" response rates, different demographics respond differently to different wording (stereotype threat etc), and that's before we consider that each of these surveys is in a different language, which will have all it's own caveats and cultural implications of different wording, as well as different cultural attitudes of what constitutes harassment. Remember that Sweden also has an exceptionally high reporting rate on rapes and sexual harassment compared to other countries. Maybe Swedes are more likely to consider something as harassment that people in the UK will just brush off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 02:22:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 02:06:26 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D:

Honestly? I'd expect the figures to be close to 100% everywhere. Depending on how you define sexual harassment anyway. But groping is probably a safe bet and I'd be surprised if anyone hadn't been groped even once unless they just tend to avoid people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:25:46 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 02:05:48 pm

Quote

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

Really?

Quote from: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 02:22:07 pm

Honestly? I'd expect the figures to be close to 100% everywhere. Depending on how you define sexual harassment anyway. But groping is probably a safe bet and I'd be surprised if anyone hadn't been groped even once unless they just tend to avoid people.

The real world isn't all that bad.

Quote from: Covenant on January 19, 2016, 02:21:22 pm

I'd say the other caveat is that modern feminism has turned 'sexual harassment' into a very nebulous term, unfortunately. I'm sure many of us remember 'Elevator-gate'. We have no idea how much of that sexual harassment is people being legitimately abused, and how much is someone getting upset for being called 'darling'.

The graphic would probably be more useful if it showed sexual assault statistics, or rapes.

EDIT: You edited your post to address this, I see.

Rape reports in Sweden have went up 900% since they started unrestricted immigration. That's over a 36 year period but Norway and Denmark have not gotten anywhere near the same increase in that time period.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 02:43:40 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:25:46 pm

The real world isn't all that bad.

I'm not saying it is bad. But to be counted on those statistics it only takes one incident of harassment. Same as how I'd expect near 100% of drivers to have been involved in a traffic collision, or near 100% of people to have ended up a patient in hospital. It's not that it happens all the time, but it happens to basically everybody to some extent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:45:18 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:25:46 pm

Rape reports in Sweden have went up 900% since they started unrestricted feminism. That's over a 36 year period but Norway and Denmark have not gotten anywhere near the same increase in that time period.

FTFY


<ducks>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:46:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:45:18 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:25:46 pm

Rape reports in Sweden have went up 900% since they started unrestricted feminism. That's over a 36 year period but Norway and Denmark have not gotten anywhere near the same increase in that time period.

FTFY

Well, I'm not one to stop anything against the f-word, but when you compare the rate of increase of the immigrant population and the rate of increase of rape accusations then you see a much clearer pattern.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 02:46:59 pm

One red flag is when one person flip-flops on the type of evidence they use.

For example, women's rights advocates traditionally reject police data as indicative of rape or domestic violence prevalence, due to under-reporting and police bias. They say surveys give the big picture. And I'm 100% happy with that. But if the survey data is your primary evidence you then have to go where the survey data takes you.

The same advocates ignore the survey data of men's victimizations which are in the same surveys they just quoted, and if you check their domestic-violence "fact-sheets" they usually have a "men aren't victims" statement in there, and they use police data as the only source for this assertion - implying few women abuse because more men are arrested for it. But, I thought we were on the same page here, and police data isn't reliable to make statements about domestic violence and sexual assault? I'm getting confused, it's almost as the logic isn't consistent here or something ...

Another example, Mary Koss was the creator of the modern rape-survey, and is an advisor to the CDC's survey group. In 2010 they added a "being made to penetrate" category for men. The wording is extremely similar to Mary Koss' rape question for women. The rationale was that they thought there might be some "false positives" in the "rape" category. i.e. their surveys said 3% of rape victims are men, and they wanted to try and squeeze that as close to zero as possible. But what happened instead is that the whole thing exploded in their face. 1.7% of men report "being made to penetrate" against their will in the same year that 1.6% of women reported rape.

"Not legitimate rape" is how Mary Koss in articles and the CDC consider male victims who had a female rapist. The FBI doesn't make this distinction: forced sex is legally rape regardless of gender. She's the feminist Todd Aiken, basically, telling rape victims their rapes weren't proper rapes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:50:27 pm

A recent studies/survey in the Netherlands would indicate that in cases of domestic violence, there's about a 50/50 ratio between women and men being the victim.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:55:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:50:27 pm

A recent studies/survey in the Netherlands would indicate that in cases of domestic violence, there's about a 50/50 ratio between women and men being the victim.

It's more 25/50/25 where the 25s are only one individual being the violent one and the 50 is both are reciprocally violent. It's actually what Erin Pizzey (the woman who founded the first women's domestic violence shelter) said before people shot her dog and started constantly harassing her. Seriously, look it up.

EDIT: Apparently her dog didn't die, just got shot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:56:15 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:55:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:50:27 pm

A recent studies/survey in the Netherlands would indicate that in cases of domestic violence, there's about a 50/50 ratio between women and men being the victim.

It's more 25/50/25 where the 25s are only one individual being the violent one and the 50 is both are reciprocally violent. It's actually what Erin Pizzey (the woman who founded the first women's domestic violence shelter) said before people killed her dog and started constantly harassing her. Seriously, look it up.

That sounds about right.

EDIT: In more news, nightclubs and bars in Denmark are instating a new rule, where they will deny access to anyone who does not speak Danish, English, or German.
Next to that, a lot of these business are hiring extra doormen to 'deal' with refugee guests who fail to keep their hands off women.
Amnesty International has protested the language restrictiong as being dicriminatory, but the branche organisation Danmarks Restauranter og Cafeer denies the accusation. They say the measure is solely put in place for the increased safety of visitors: "if guests enter that show threatening behaviour, it is a big challenge for security to deal with it if they cannot try to engage in conversation".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 03:06:54 pm

There's a good Australian cite called oneinthree (http://www.oneinthree.com.au/overview/) which talks about the data for Australia.

Male victims make up about 1 in 3 Australian reports of domestic violence, and that doubled over the last decade. But of course, women did not become more violence between 2005-2015, men are just reporting it more now because it's becoming more openly discussed. Most telling, a year 2001 survey of Australian children found that equal proportions report "mummy hits daddy" as "daddy hits mummy".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ghazkull on January 19, 2016, 03:16:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 02:06:26 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/LEZD4XA.jpg)

D:

Looking at that graph...thats not just women...thats the entire Adult Population...i call bullshit. You simply can't have 100% of the Adult population be sexually harrassed...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 03:17:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:56:15 pm

EDIT: In more news, nightclubs and bars in Denmark are instating a new rule, where they will deny access to anyone who does not speak Danish, English, or German.
Next to that, a lot of these business are hiring extra doormen to 'deal' with refugee guests who fail to keep their hands off women.
Amnesty International has protested the language restrictiong as being dicriminatory, but the branche organisation Danmarks Restauranter og Cafeer denies the accusation. They say the measure is solely put in place for the increased safety of visitors: "if guests enter that show threatening behaviour, it is a big challenge for security to deal with it if they cannot try to engage in conversation".

Can you source that, please?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 03:18:42 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:58:06 pm

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 01:52:40 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 01:44:54 pm

you have to use crazy obscure sources to get any real sort of information about a case.

And therein lies the way down the rabbit hole. Jet fuel can't melt steel beams, after all.

Of course. Any sort of questioning of facts is a conspiracy theory.

There's questioning, and then there's "WAKE UP SHEEPLE! MSM is all in a conspiracy to hide Muslim atrocities right in front of our eyes because....well, just because!"
When you have to rely on obscure, questionable, highly biased "media" sources to build your argument, that might be a sign there's something wrong with your argument.

Quote

I have to ask, did you read the rest of my post or did you just cherrypick those two sentences out to respond to?

Yeah, I read it. And to be bluntly honest, I don't see much difference in the logic from the 9/11 truthers, the birthers, the "Sandy Hook was a hoax" gun nuts, the Flat Earthers, or any other number of assorted nutters who cherrypick info from a handful of crazy-ass undocumented sources and cling to that as "truth" while dismissing all mainstream media reports as some kind of elaborate propaganda/cover-up.

Yes, cover-ups do happen. For a little while. Rarely are they permanent, because people talk and because nobody is competent enough to hide all evidence forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 19, 2016, 03:30:32 pm

There are plenty of things that got written off and mocked as conspiracy theories for decades, until some declassified document or long-silent, reliable witness comes forth and reveals that, oh shit, it all actually happened after all! My favorite example of this is Richard "Dickhead" Nixon (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668), but I can think of several others. Just because big media outlets don't cover it (or don't cover it favorably) doesn't mean it isn't true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 03:47:03 pm

Idk, some evidence is quite compelling, but you still don't want to believe it.

e.g. for the Oklahoma Bombing, there is the local commercial TV news footage (in the immediate aftermath) which talks about unexploded bombs found inside the partially-damaged building. Which is pretty weird TV footage to even exist, seeing as officially they deny there were any such bombs, yet we have mainstream local TV footage of them saying that there were. ATF is pretty dodgy in my opinion, they turned up in all sorts of scandals around the same time, 1992+, Waco and Ruby Ridge etc. That was their own building that got blown up, but amazingly they were the only people in the building who didn't go to work that day. Every other organization which had space in that building suffered casualties. And wtf were other bombs doing in there? The bombing switched the media coverage from "ATF are assholes" to "ATF are heroes" and netted the local ATF about $25 million in additional funding. Profit.

Another 1990's example is the Judy Bari bombing. You have an Earth First anti-logging activist, and a pipe bomb goes off in her car, and minutes later a newly-created FBI counter-terrorism task force descends on the scene and arrests her as a terrorist transporting a bomb (for some reason she stuck a motion-sensitive pipe bomb under her ass - it put her in a wheelchair for life). Later, it turns out every single agent there was trained at "bomb school" by the lead agent 1 month prior, and they practiced planting pipe bombs in cars and responding to the incident. Bomb school was held on land belonging to the logging company that was the target of the protests. BTW, the same logging company was also spreading forged Earth First literature which contained violent threats, but they had elementary mistakes such as signing the name of the leader of Earth First "Daryl Cheney" when his name actually has 2 r's. A guy is unlikely to both mistype and mis-sign his own name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 03:54:58 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:46:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:45:18 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 02:25:46 pm

Rape reports in Sweden have went up 900% since they started unrestricted feminism. That's over a 36 year period but Norway and Denmark have not gotten anywhere near the same increase in that time period.

FTFY

Well, I'm not one to stop anything against the f-word, but when you compare the rate of increase of the immigrant population and the rate of increase of rape accusations then you see a much clearer pattern.

***THIS IS ALL UTTER BULLSHIT***

You're right, man. Feminism does not explain the rape epidemic because the reporting rates have been going down. Have you seen the latest rape statistics from Sweden, by the way? (http://www.snabbnewsnet.se/articles/wrw-rape-scandal-horrible) They're so fucking horrible that it's no wonder the authorities don't want us to see them. D:

Quote

Earlier today, an independent feminist NGO known as Women's Rights Watch Sverige (http://www.kvinnornasrattigheter.se/) published their own unofficial statistics of unreported rape in Sweden, and the numbers have far outstripped the worst fears of the country's most concerned citizens. Gunilla Bergström, CEO of Women's Rights Watch, assesses the findings in no uncertain terms: "The only conclusion that can be drawn from this dataset is that the entire immigrant population of Sweden is waging an outright war against light-skinned, non-Muslim women – and the women have already lost." According to WRWS, the total number of unreported rape offences has increased by 229 000 each year, for the last five years, whereas the rate of reporting has plummeted from the earlier 5% to an abysmal 0.0005% during the interval. Bergström continues: "We are now at the point where over 45% of Swedish women will be raped at least once within the next two months, and 23% will be raped over eight times in the same time period. In addition, our estimates indicate that at least 29 000 Swedish women have been brutally murdered during sexual assault by immigrant gangs, and approximately 13% of all light-skinned, non-Muslim women have been forced into sexual slavery to their Muslim 'husbands.'" According to an anonymous government spokesperson, the WRWS is going to face charges of treason for leaking classified information.

***THIS IS ALL UTTER BULLSHIT***

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 03:58:00 pm

Out of curiosity, how does one determine the number of unreported rapes? I can see a very obvious problem with finding that out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 19, 2016, 04:00:06 pm

Quote from: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 03:58:00 pm

Out of curiosity, how does one determine the number of unreported rapes? I can see a very obvious problem with finding that out.

Population - reported cases?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:01:31 pm

Survey results minus police reports.

But that source has to be satire. 45% of Swedish women will be raped in the next two months? That's gotta be a parody.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:09:18 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 03:54:58 pm

You're right, man. Feminism does not explain the rape epidemic because the reporting rates have been going down. Have you seen the latest rape statistics from Sweden, by the way? (http://www.snabbnewsnet.se/articles/wrw-rape-scandal-horrible) They're so fucking horrible that it's no wonder the authorities don't want us to see them. D:

Quote

Earlier today, an independent feminist NGO known as Women's Rights Watch Sverige (http://www.kvinnornasrattigheter.se/) published their own unofficial statistics of unreported rape in Sweden, and the numbers have far outstripped the worst fears of the country's most concerned citizens. Gunilla Bergström, CEO of Women's Rights Watch, assesses the findings in no uncertain terms: "The only conclusion that can be drawn from this dataset is that the entire immigrant population of Sweden is waging an outright war against light-skinned, non-Muslim women – and the women have already lost." According to WRWS, the total number of unreported rape offences has increased by 229 000 each year, for the last five years, whereas the rate of reporting has plummeted from the earlier 5% to an abysmal 0.0005% during the interval. Bergström continues: "We are now at the point where over 45% of Swedish women will be raped at least once within the next two months, and 23% will be raped over eight times in the same time period. In addition, our estimates indicate that at least 29 000 of Swedish women have been brutally murdered during sexual assault by immigrant gangs, and approximately 13% of all light-skinned, non-Muslim womem have been forced into sexual slavery to their Muslim husbands." According to an anonymous government spokesperson, the WRWS is going to faces charges of treason for leaking classified information.

Neither that site nor the one it's linking to seem to exist. Got another source?

I'm always very, very wary of "unreported rape" statistics, anyway, since how do you even begin to measure that which is not, by it's definition, measured? It's guesswork.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:10:55 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:01:31 pm

Survey results minus police reports.

But that source has to be satire. 45% of Swedish women will be raped in the next two months? That's gotta be a parody.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:09:18 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 03:54:58 pm

You're right, man. Feminism does not explain the rape epidemic because the reporting rates have been going down. Have you seen the latest rape statistics from Sweden, by the way? (http://www.snabbnewsnet.se/articles/wrw-rape-scandal-horrible) They're so fucking horrible that it's no wonder the authorities don't want us to see them. D:

Quote

Earlier today, an independent feminist NGO known as Women's Rights Watch Sverige (http://www.kvinnornasrattigheter.se/) published their own unofficial statistics of unreported rape in Sweden, and the numbers have far outstripped the worst fears of the country's most concerned citizens. Gunilla Bergström, CEO of Women's Rights Watch, assesses the findings in no uncertain terms: "The only conclusion that can be drawn from this dataset is that the entire immigrant population of Sweden is waging an outright war against light-skinned, non-Muslim women – and the women have already lost." According to WRWS, the total number of unreported rape offences has increased by 229 000 each year, for the last five years, whereas the rate of reporting has plummeted from the earlier 5% to an abysmal 0.0005% during the interval. Bergström continues: "We are now at the point where over 45% of Swedish women will be raped at least once within the next two months, and 23% will be raped over eight times in the same time period. In addition, our estimates indicate that at least 29 000 of Swedish women have been brutally murdered during sexual assault by immigrant gangs, and approximately 13% of all light-skinned, non-Muslim womem have been forced into sexual slavery to their Muslim husbands." According to an anonymous government spokesperson, the WRWS is going to faces charges of treason for leaking classified information.

Neither that site nor the one it's linking to seem to exist. Got another source?

I'm always very, very wary of "unreported rape" statistics, anyway, since how do you even begin to measure that which is not, by it's definition, measured? It's guesswork.

Odd... I tried to re-check the sources but the websites have just... disappeared. Is this... oh fuck, we 1984 now! :O

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 04:12:21 pm

TOO SPOOKY ME

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:13:55 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 19, 2016, 02:21:22 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 02:05:48 pm

Quote

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

So is it better to pick one authority and put all your trust in it? That seems silly to me.

One should create mental lists like

95% level of trust
80% level of trust
66% level of trust
10% level of trust
5% level of trust
0% level of trust


If several independent 95% sources claim something - it is true\very likely to be true. If 95% source claim one thing, and 5% source claim another, then you should stick with 95%

Not go "everyone lies" and read just everything and try to make a "truth" out of it. Your brain will create patterns that fit your mentality.

Having one authority is bad, having no authorities is much worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:16:46 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:10:55 pm

Odd... I tried to re-check the sources but the websites have just... disappeared. Is this... oh fuck, we 1984 now! :O

Those numbers are physically impossible. You need to be more critical of sources. You likely cited some "Onion" style article there. You're only making yourself look bad, just admit the article is clearly a load of shit. It's not physically possible for 45% of the population to be raped in the next 2 months.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 19, 2016, 04:17:01 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:10:55 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:01:31 pm

Survey results minus police reports.

But that source has to be satire. 45% of Swedish women will be raped in the next two months? That's gotta be a parody.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:09:18 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 03:54:58 pm

You're right, man. Feminism does not explain the rape epidemic because the reporting rates have been going down. Have you seen the latest rape statistics from Sweden, by the way? (http://www.snabbnewsnet.se/articles/wrw-rape-scandal-horrible) They're so fucking horrible that it's no wonder the authorities don't want us to see them. D:

Quote

Earlier today, an independent feminist NGO known as Women's Rights Watch Sverige (http://www.kvinnornasrattigheter.se/) published their own unofficial statistics of unreported rape in Sweden, and the numbers have far outstripped the worst fears of the country's most concerned citizens. Gunilla Bergström, CEO of Women's Rights Watch, assesses the findings in no uncertain terms: "The only conclusion that can be drawn from this dataset is that the entire immigrant population of Sweden is waging an outright war against light-skinned, non-Muslim women – and the women have already lost." According to WRWS, the total number of unreported rape offences has increased by 229 000 each year, for the last five years, whereas the rate of reporting has plummeted from the earlier 5% to an abysmal 0.0005% during the interval. Bergström continues: "We are now at the point where over 45% of Swedish women will be raped at least once within the next two months, and 23% will be raped over eight times in the same time period. In addition, our estimates indicate that at least 29 000 of Swedish women have been brutally murdered during sexual assault by immigrant gangs, and approximately 13% of all light-skinned, non-Muslim womem have been forced into sexual slavery to their Muslim husbands." According to an anonymous government spokesperson, the WRWS is going to faces charges of treason for leaking classified information.

Neither that site nor the one it's linking to seem to exist. Got another source?

I'm always very, very wary of "unreported rape" statistics, anyway, since how do you even begin to measure that which is not, by it's definition, measured? It's guesswork.

Odd... I tried to re-check the sources but the websites have just... disappeared. Is this... oh fuck, we 1984 now! :O

Found their english site: http://sverigeskvinnolobby.se/en/ Actually, that might not quite be what the origional source was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:21:54 pm

The language in the other article doesn't really match the tone in this one.

"approximately 13% of all light-skinned, non-Muslim womem have been forced into sexual slavery to their Muslim husbands"

This implies 13% of Swedish non-muslim women have a Muslim husband, which is clearly a joke. The alternative interpretation is that only 13% of non-muslim women who have a muslim husband have been sexually enslaved. But I don't think that's what they're getting at, because they also say:

"the entire immigrant population of Sweden is waging an outright war against light-skinned, non-Muslim women"

And it's a radfem organization, the emphasis on skin color is completely opposite of how feminists talk.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:24:54 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:10:55 pm

Odd... I tried to re-check the sources but the websites have just... disappeared. Is this... oh fuck, we 1984 now! :O

Man, this is why I archive EVERYTHING. Especially after a certain gaming debacle a few years ago where whole articles would be changed and things said a few years back suddenly disappeared into the ether because they showed uncomfortable truths.

There is nothing I don't archive nowadays before I post it.

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:13:55 pm

One should create mental lists like

95% level of trust
80% level of trust
66% level of trust
10% level of trust
5% level of trust
0% level of trust

If several independent 95% sources claim something - it is true\very likely to be true. If 95% source claim one thing, and 5% source claim another, then you should stick with 95%

Not go "everyone lies" and read just everything and try to make a "truth" out of it. Your brain will create patterns that fit your mentality.

Having one authority is bad, having no authorities is much worse.

I've found "95% level of trust sources" that ALL backed each other in lockstep on a certain topic... And it was all false. Like, verifiably false. This includes the BBC (British Broadcast Channel) which is meant to be completely neutral and unbiased.

One of the problems you have to realise is that journalists, especially modern journalists, don't often bother to fact check their sources any more. If one news organisation posts it, five others will cite them as a source and post it even if they have no knowledge or way of proving it's true.

That's not even considering the problem that many journalists embrace the concept of bias and believe they should only report news that agrees with them or that they should present news in a way that shows "their truth" instead of "the truth".

Don't believe anything the media says and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 04:26:13 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 03:17:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:56:15 pm

EDIT: In more news, nightclubs and bars in Denmark are instating a new rule, where they will deny access to anyone who does not speak Danish, English, or German.
Next to that, a lot of these business are hiring extra doormen to 'deal' with refugee guests who fail to keep their hands off women.
Amnesty International has protested the language restrictiong as being dicriminatory, but the branche organisation Danmarks Restauranter og Cafeer denies the accusation. They say the measure is solely put in place for the increased safety of visitors: "if guests enter that show threatening behaviour, it is a big challenge for security to deal with it if they cannot try to engage in conversation".

Can you source that, please?

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/deense-nachtclubs-weren-vluchtelingen-om-talenkennis~a4228340/
http://www.thelocal.dk/20160118/danish-nightclubs-use-language-rules-to-keep-refugees-out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:27:04 pm

EDIT: I was wrong, source seems legit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:30:00 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 04:26:13 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 03:17:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 02:56:15 pm

EDIT: In more news, nightclubs and bars in Denmark are instating a new rule, where they will deny access to anyone who does not speak Danish, English, or German.
Next to that, a lot of these business are hiring extra doormen to 'deal' with refugee guests who fail to keep their hands off women.
Amnesty International has protested the language restrictiong as being dicriminatory, but the branche organisation Danmarks Restauranter og Cafeer denies the accusation. They say the measure is solely put in place for the increased safety of visitors: "if guests enter that show threatening behaviour, it is a big challenge for security to deal with it if they cannot try to engage in conversation".

Can you source that, please?

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/deense-nachtclubs-weren-vluchtelingen-om-talenkennis~a4228340/
http://www.thelocal.dk/20160118/danish-nightclubs-use-language-rules-to-keep-refugees-out

Damn. Good on them, at least.

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:27:04 pm

Really, if anyone is taking that Swedish article at face-value, I ... really question your basic cognitive skills.

Honestly, I was immediately suspicious. I'd've preferred to be able to read it, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:32:54 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:24:54 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:10:55 pm

Odd... I tried to re-check the sources but the websites have just... disappeared. Is this... oh fuck, we 1984 now! :O

Man, this is why I archive EVERYTHING. Especially after a certain gaming debacle a few years ago where whole articles would be changed and things said a few years back suddenly disappeared into the ether because they showed uncomfortable truths.

There is nothing I don't archive nowadays before I post it.

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:13:55 pm

One should create mental lists like

95% level of trust
80% level of trust
66% level of trust
10% level of trust
5% level of trust
0% level of trust

If several independent 95% sources claim something - it is true\very likely to be true. If 95% source claim one thing, and 5% source claim another, then you should stick with 95%

Not go "everyone lies" and read just everything and try to make a "truth" out of it. Your brain will create patterns that fit your mentality.

Having one authority is bad, having no authorities is much worse.

I've found "95% level of trust sources" that ALL backed each other in lockstep on a certain topic... And it was all false. Like, verifiably false. This includes the BBC (British Broadcast Channel) which is meant to be completely neutral and unbiased.

One of the problems you have to realise is that journalists, especially modern journalists, don't often bother to fact check their sources any more. If one news organisation posts it, five others will cite them as a source and post it even if they have no knowledge or way of proving it's true.

That's not even considering the problem that many journalists embrace the concept of bias and believe they should only report news that agrees with them or that they should present news in a way that shows "their truth" instead of "the truth".

Don't believe anything the media says and you're much more likely to get the truth.

dude...

Quote

Don't believe anything low-quality trolls say and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Quote

Don't believe anything low-quality trolls say and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:30:00 pm

Honestly, I was immediately suspicious. I'd've preferred to be able to read it, though.

Those sites never existed in the first place. It was made out of whole cloth. Straight from the fundament. VERITAS EX CULO.

And you would have loved to read it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:34:18 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:32:54 pm

<snip>
dude...

Quote

Don't believe anything low-quality trolls say and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Quote

Don't believe anything low-quality trolls say and you're much more likely to get the truth.

I don't, but I prefer to be polite. ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 04:35:02 pm

Propose we rename the thread to "Europol REAL Truth Thread: Kebab Can't Melt Braunschweiger!"

I'll go back to now to the Ameripol thread where we're contemplating electing a guy who thinks he can build a giant 3,000 mile wall and get the people he's walling off to pay for it. And that seems sane by comparison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:39:32 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:32:54 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:30:00 pm

Honestly, I was immediately suspicious. I'd've preferred to be able to read it, though.

Those sites never existed in the first place. It was made out of whole cloth. Straight from the fundament. VERITAS EX CULO.

And you would have loved to read it.

I had a sneaking suspicion this was the case when I googled them and nothing came up. Dead sites don't work like that. But, again, I wasn't going to call you a lying bugger until I had evidence of it. Because that's polite.

Of course I would have. It'd've been interesting.

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 04:35:02 pm

Propose we rename the thread to "Europol REAL Truth Thread: Kebab Can't Melt Braunschweiger!"

I'll go back to now to the Ameripol thread where we're contemplating electing a guy who thinks he can build a giant 3,000 mile wall and get the people he's walling off to pay for it. And that seems sane by comparison.

I do like the idea of an American Hadrian's Wall. We could do with an updated one to keep the Scottish locked in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:40:53 pm

Quote

Don't believe anything the media says and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Your "truth" is what you want to believe in and nothing more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:42:58 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:40:53 pm

Quote

Don't believe anything the media says and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Your "truth" is what you want to believe in and nothing more.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You can believe that if it makes you more comfortable, but I assure you that's not the case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:58:13 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:39:32 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:32:54 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 04:30:00 pm

Honestly, I was immediately suspicious. I'd've preferred to be able to read it, though.

Those sites never existed in the first place. It was made out of whole cloth. Straight from the fundament. VERITAS EX CULO.

And you would have loved to read it.

I had a sneaking suspicion this was the case when I googled them and nothing came up. Dead sites don't work like that. But, again, I wasn't going to call you a lying bugger until I had evidence of it. Because that's polite.

Ya silly, silly goose! :D

You could have just said "those numbers look made-up and physically impossible" without even looking at the (non-existent) sources! That wouldn't have been impolite.

Why didn't you do it? Would you believe that shit if it was on Baitfart? No, of course not, m8. ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:00:24 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

My main problem is how inhumane halal slaughters are compared to how it's normally done. They're really horrible.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 19, 2016, 04:58:13 pm

Ya silly, silly goose! :D

You could have just said "those numbers look made-up and physically impossible" without even looking at the (non-existent) sources! That wouldn't have been impolite.

Why didn't you do it? Would you believe that shit if it was on Baitfart? No, of course not, m8. ;D

Again, I don't believe anything from the media, at least not wholly.

Calling you a liar is different to calling a site a liar. Judge me harshly for that if you will.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 19, 2016, 05:01:45 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Perhaps you'll be happy to know vegemite is no longer kosher? (presumably it's not halal either).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 19, 2016, 05:08:39 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Well in the past few years there's been this insistence to add bacon to everything, so...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:10:17 pm

Quote from: Bouchart on January 19, 2016, 05:08:39 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Well in the past few years there's been this insistence to add bacon to everything, so...

I have to say I've noticed the price of chicken skyrocketing and the price of pork dropping like a rock.

It's pretty good when you can get two meals worth of pork shoulder steaks for £1.79.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 05:14:16 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Sounds like people complaining when American shops have bilingual signs. It's called "recognizing growth markets".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:16:02 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

One thing I'm upset by is this creeping insistence that food all be halal. Even apples are halal! I promote creating a pork-fat based coating on all fruits and vegetables to counter this halal thing. There needs to be some kickback against this.

Why not all Halal?
Only opposition is based off either traditionalism or petty animal welfare concerns who can't handle enrichment

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:40:53 pm

Quote

Don't believe anything the media says and you're much more likely to get the truth.

Your "truth" is what you want to believe in and nothing more.

No - for example during the coverup for the last 15 years with the checki rape gangs, whether you believed in it or not when it all came to light come 2013 there was a truth there that existed independently of whether you believed in it m9

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 04:35:02 pm

Propose we rename the thread to "Europol REAL Truth Thread: Kebab Can't Melt Braunschweiger!"
I'll go back to now to the Ameripol thread where we're contemplating electing a guy who thinks he can build a giant 3,000 mile wall and get the people he's walling off to pay for it. And that seems sane by comparison.

Keep us noted if Cruz manages to absorb the Eagle's strength by mating with it to challenge the wizard that dwells within the Tower of Trump

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 04:13:55 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Covenant on January 19, 2016, 02:21:22 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 02:05:48 pm

Quote

You have to get several secondary sources or a few primary sources to get some idea of anything approaching the truth.

Do you know what usually happens when people do this? They invent their own reality. They combine several sources (some of which are bullshit) and adapt it to fit their own believes and ideas.

So is it better to pick one authority and put all your trust in it? That seems silly to me.

One should create mental lists like

95% level of trust
80% level of trust
66% level of trust
10% level of trust
5% level of trust
0% level of trust

If several independent 95% sources claim something - it is true\very likely to be true. If 95% source claim one thing, and 5% source claim another, then you should stick with 95%

Not go "everyone lies" and read just everything and try to make a "truth" out of it. Your brain will create patterns that fit your mentality.

Having one authority is bad, having no authorities is much worse.

Such mental lists is retarded and prone to abuse, having one authority is objectively worse than having no authorities - with none, information battles it out on the free mediums, whilst with one authority you get one narrative controlled with more ease by one power.

Just look at things on a case by case basis. For example I consider Al Jazeera, BBC, Guardian, Independent, Times, Telegraph e.t.c. to be respectable and reliable, yet I would not for a moment take them for granted as being implacable, incorruptible, impartial bastions of truth.

I think now of all times we can see where even supposedly respectable and trustworthy "sources" are never a viable substitute for primary sources and your own scrutiny. Consider the new year checki bants in Sweden and Germany only coming to light when independent bloggers forced the media and police to actually report on the mad damn bants.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:00:24 pm

My main problem is how inhumane halal slaughters are compared to how it's normally done. They're really horrible.

One thing to note is that halal is at its core the slitting of the animal's throat with the animal unaware of its approaching death (so it can't see the knife or signs of previous slaughter). It's not as humane as boltguns, it's still second best. Much of the uproar over inhumane halal abattoirs (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html) have actually done things that make them haram, such as kicking the animal in the face or showing them the knife. Teaching these butchers how to actually perform a proper halal slaughtering would be more ethical, though I suppose teaching them how to use a boltgun would also do the trick.

EDIT*

Quote

Staff laughing over a sheep bleeding to death with spectacles drawn around its eyes in green paint.

Just saying this is not exactly how to properly conduct a halal slaughter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 05:17:09 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

Even apples are halal!

I guess technically? But if someone couldn't figure that out without being told maybe they should hold off on eating until they learn the difference between a plant and an animal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2016, 05:19:28 pm

Last year, a Dutch citizens initiative, 'Geen Peil' got enough signatures to force our government to hold a public referendum on the question whether the EU should go ahead and form the trade and association agreement with the Ukraine. The referendum will be held in april.

Today, Geen Peil recieved a video message, threatening the Dutch population with terrorist attacks if we vote 'no'.
In the video, masked men threaten in both ukrainian and english, that there will be chaos in the Netherlands if we vote no. "Don't dare to go against us, or it will end badly for you. We will find you everywhere. At the movies, at your work, in your bedrooms, in public transportation! We have people all over the Netherlands, ready and waiting for our orders". At the end of the video a Dutch flag is burned.
https://youtu.be/c5YJGKs3AUo (https://youtu.be/c5YJGKs3AUo)

The video is made in the style of the Azov batallion, an unltranationalist unit of voluonteers that are fighting pro-Russian rebels, and the men in the video claim to speak on their behalf.

Ukrainian minister Avakov told our ambassador that the video must be fake, and is only meant as a provocation to instill anti-Ukrainian sentiment in the Netherlands. According to him, this would be in line with the 'hybrid war' that Russia is fighting in the Ukraine.

Former commander of the Azov battalion, now a member of parliament, Andri Byletski, says the video cannot originate from the Azov batallion. According to him, the men in the video are carrying firearms in an unprofessional manner, which his unit would never do.
https://youtu.be/OEQxJlPhqaw (https://youtu.be/OEQxJlPhqaw)
An indication of the threat video being fake, is the fact that even though the man speaks ukrainian, he does so with a Russian accent.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/geenpeil-krijgt-filmpje-van-nep-oekrainers~a4228447/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/geenpeil-krijgt-filmpje-van-nep-oekrainers~a4228447/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:22:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:16:02 pm

One thing to note is that halal is at its core the slitting of the animal's throat with the animal unaware of its approaching death (so it can't see the knife or signs of previous slaughter). It's not as humane as boltguns, it's still second best. Much of the uproar over inhumane halal abattoirs (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html) have actually done things that make them haram, such as kicking the animal in the face or showing them the knife. Teaching these butchers how to actually perform a proper halal slaughtering would be more ethical, though I suppose teaching them how to use a boltgun would also do the trick.

EDIT*

Quote

Staff laughing over a sheep bleeding to death with spectacles drawn around its eyes in green paint.

Just saying this is not exactly how to properly conduct a halal slaughter

It's the lack of stunning that causes the problem, really. Regardless of how effective you are, the animal will recognise it's just got it's throat slit and it's bleeding out on the floor. I'm not sure it's economically viable to clean up all evidence of slaughter after each slaughter anymore.

Even boltgun slaughters use stunning now despite the fact that, by all evidence, the animal will be instantly killed when shot through the head.

The whole thing seems like it's just, "But that's not the real Islam."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 05:26:28 pm

Azov is anti-EU. They have little to no interest to stop such referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:28:47 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:22:34 pm

It's the lack of stunning that causes the problem, really. Regardless of how effective you are, the animal will recognise it's just got it's throat slit and it's bleeding out on the floor. I'm not sure it's economically viable to clean up all evidence of slaughter after each slaughter anymore.

Even boltgun slaughters use stunning now despite the fact that, by all evidence, the animal will be instantly killed when shot through the head.

The whole thing seems like it's just, "But that's not the real Islam."

True, true, it's not ideal. But a skilled butcher will be able to deliver a fatal cut in one blow and this is a privilege we've given to Jewish butchers, so why not Muslim butchers too? Likewise ending halal slaughter altogether is a crude tool, when we could merely mandate stunning before the killing blow - the UK for example already has this sort of slaughtering for halal animal produce where they deliver a stunning blow/electrocution that leaves the animals unconscious but not dead, awaiting the killing blow, fitting both Islamic and Western moral law

Also you could totally clean all the blood up with a simple drain and water

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 19, 2016, 05:29:31 pm

Quote from: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 05:17:09 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

Even apples are halal!

I guess technically? But if someone couldn't figure that out without being told maybe they should hold off on eating until they learn the difference between a plant and an animal.

Well technically if it rolled down the same conveyor belt as a bit of pig, or sat in the same truck without being cleaned, whether it makes sense or not it may not be... get's even trickier with processed foods where they add or sorts of stuff you wouldn't expect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:30:06 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 19, 2016, 05:26:28 pm

Azov is anti-EU. They have little to no interest to stop such referendum.

The majority of Europe is anti-EU nowadays, at least from what I've seen.

It was a great endeavor, but an obviously failed one.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:28:47 pm

True, true, it's not ideal. But a skilled butcher will be able to deliver a fatal cut in one blow and this is a privilege we've given to Jewish butchers, so why not Muslim butchers too? Likewise ending halal slaughter altogether is a crude tool, when we could merely mandate stunning before the killing blow - the UK for example already has this sort of slaughtering for halal animal produce where they deliver a stunning blow/electrocution that leaves the animals unconscious but not dead, awaiting the killing blow, fitting both Islamic and Western moral law

I'm talking about the UK and the stunning blow. It's not used in halal butchering since a significant portion of Muslims believe that it's not acceptable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:35:28 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:30:06 pm

I'm talking about the UK and the stunning blow. It's not used in halal butchering since a significant portion of Muslims believe that it's not acceptable.

No I'm pretty sure they believe that the killing blow being a boltgun is unacceptable, but as long as the death is one from the draining of blood from the throat any stunning along the way is halal

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/what-does-halal-method-animal-slaughter-involve

I'm sourcing the guardian who are sourcing an FSA report I can't find, so assume they're full of shit - but assuming they're not, by FSA estimates only 12% of Halal slaughter is carried out without stunning prior to throat cutting, and if Muslims care much about the stunning they haven't made too much of a fuss about it

I think now that we have the technology readily available to render animals unconscious before slaughter it should be mandated, but the Guardian's estimate of the FSA's estimate of halal slaughtering would only necessitate the reduction of the 12%

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:53:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 05:35:28 pm

No I'm pretty sure they believe that the killing blow being a boltgun is unacceptable, but as long as the death is one from the draining of blood from the throat any stunning along the way is halal

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/what-does-halal-method-animal-slaughter-involve

I'm sourcing the guardian who are sourcing an FSA report I can't find, so assume they're full of shit - but assuming they're not, by FSA estimates only 12% of Halal slaughter is carried out without stunning prior to throat cutting, and if Muslims care much about the stunning they haven't made too much of a fuss about it

I think now that we have the technology readily available to render animals unconscious before slaughter it should be mandated, but the Guardian's estimate of the FSA's estimate of halal slaughtering would only necessitate the reduction of the 12%

I did actually find the report. (http://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/board/fsa120508.pdf)

It's a bit worse than the Guardian was saying with it ranging from 81% to 88% depending on the animal (what the hell is the point in lying about this?) but it doesn't seem that bad.

It's still technically against halal to not stun the animal, though, but if people are willing to ignore that then that's fine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 05:55:05 pm

Quote from: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 05:17:09 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 04:56:55 pm

Even apples are halal!

I guess technically? But if someone couldn't figure that out without being told maybe they should hold off on eating until they learn the difference between a plant and an animal.

Technically, if you read islamic sources, Halal means all the things that you are allowed to eat.

http://www.icv.org.au/index.php/publications/what-is-halal

Quote

What is Halal?

Halal is an Arabic word meaning lawful or permitted. In reference to food, it is the dietary standard, as prescribed in the Qur'an (the Muslim scripture). The opposite of halal is haram, which means unlawful or prohibited. Halal and haram are universal terms that apply to all facets of life. These terms are commonly used in relation to food products, meat products, cosmetics, personal care products, pharmaceuticals, food ingredients, and food contact materials.
...
In general every food is considered halal in Islam unless it is specially prohibited by the Qur'an or the Hadith.

BTW: I was kidding about being anti-halal. It was in relation to a facebook group who won't buy anything if it's proven to be halal (which should technically mean, almost everything).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 06:03:56 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 05:55:05 pm

Technically, if you read islamic sources, Halal means all the things that you are allowed to eat.

If you're being semantic, everyone is referring to Dhabihah when they refer to Halal slaughter, the slaughter in accordance with what makes an animal halal. An animal not slaughtered in accordance with the rights is haram.

Also interesting is that a Jew or Christian can slaughter halal, but a Hindu cannot. Here's a cheeky conundrum, can a halal butchery legally discriminate against a Hindu?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 06:11:13 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 19, 2016, 05:53:30 pm

I did actually find the report. (http://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/board/fsa120508.pdf)
It's a bit worse than the Guardian was saying with it ranging from 81% to 88% depending on the animal (what the hell is the point in lying about this?) but it doesn't seem that bad.
It's still technically against halal to not stun the animal, though, but if people are willing to ignore that then that's fine.

Dohohoho, the Guardian are a very naughty newspaper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 06:23:37 pm

Well, the Jews in the report have a zero % stun rate. Don't see anyone complaining about that ... but an 81% stun rate at muslim slaughterhouses is worth a campaign? Biased a bit?

Quote

1,314(3%) were slaughtered by the Shechita (Jewish) method at 4 establishments, with 10% of these were stunned immediately after bleeding

1,727(4%) were slaughtered by the Halal (Muslim) method at 16 establishments.  84% of these were stunned before slaughter, and less than 1% stunned after bleeding.

... and they don't even collate data on how many European slaughter houses stun properly.

Quote

Cattle slaughter

The majority of cattle are stunned with the captive bolt pistol. Penetrative captive bolt stunners drive a bolt into the skull and cause unconsciousness both through physical brain damage and the concussive blow to the skull. The bolt on a non-penetrative stunner is 'mushroom-headed' and impacts on the brain without entering the skull. Unconsciousness is caused by the concussive blow.

If an animal is not accurately stunned or the correct cartridge strength is not used, the stun will not be effective. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. These animals experience the pain of being shot in the head and will either be stunned again (a difficult procedure) or continue on for knifing whilst conscious.

In an attempt to improve accuracy, legislation requires that cattle are either confined in a stunning pen or have their heads 'securely fastened'. However, head restraint systems can cause great distress. The MHS says that 17% of abattoirs either do not use a restraint or use an "inefficient" restraint which can result in the stun being delivered ineffectively.

You're talking a quarter of a million cows in the UK killed without stunning at "western" slaughterhouses" vs a couple of hundred at muslim ones. That's 1000 to 1 ratio. Muslims are responsible for 0.1% of the suffering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 19, 2016, 06:27:08 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 05:55:05 pm

Technically, if you read islamic sources, Halal means all the things that you are allowed to eat.

http://www.icv.org.au/index.php/publications/what-is-halal

Yes I know. I live in Yorkshire m8, Muslims out the gills. I just thought you were being upset over apples being marketed as halal as though it were something special.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 06:33:28 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 06:23:37 pm

Well, the Jews in the report have a zero % stun rate. Don't see anyone complaining about that ... but an 81% stun rate at muslim slaughterhouses is worth a campaign? Biased a bit?

Only the Jews who adhere to the Shechita rites forbid stunning, and they likewise court controversy whilst also making a much smaller percentage of kosher slaughters, itself a much smaller percentage of slaughters. We also do not know the exact numbers as they're estimates by the FSA, but 19% of Halal slaughters carried out would mean 21,660,000 animals conscious as their blood is drained - I have argued against the one extreme of making this a solely Muslim issue and solely a Halal rites issue, now I am arguing against the extreme of making this a solely Muslim issue vs Jewish issue

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 06:37:41 pm

http://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk

Quote

Cattle slaughter

The majority of cattle are stunned with the captive bolt pistol. Penetrative captive bolt stunners drive a bolt into the skull and cause unconsciousness both through physical brain damage and the concussive blow to the skull. The bolt on a non-penetrative stunner is 'mushroom-headed' and impacts on the brain without entering the skull. Unconsciousness is caused by the concussive blow.

If an animal is not accurately stunned or the correct cartridge strength is not used, the stun will not be effective. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. These animals experience the pain of being shot in the head and will either be stunned again (a difficult procedure) or continue on for knifing whilst conscious.

In an attempt to improve accuracy, legislation requires that cattle are either confined in a stunning pen or have their heads 'securely fastened'. However, head restraint systems can cause great distress. The MHS says that 17% of abattoirs either do not use a restraint or use an "inefficient" restraint which can result in the stun being delivered ineffectively.

Number of cows not properly stunned in UK slaughterhouses = 230000 / year. The number at Jewish slaughter = 1314 * 0.9 = 1182, number at muslim slaughterhouses = 1727 * 0.16 = 276. Why are we singling out halal butchers again? I call bullshit on the "animal welfare" argument. There are literally 1000 times the scale at regular slaughterhouses of not-stunned animals.

It's a non-story born in racism, plain and simple.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 06:42:29 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 06:37:41 pm

Quote

Cattle slaughter

The majority of cattle are stunned with the captive bolt pistol. Penetrative captive bolt stunners drive a bolt into the skull and cause unconsciousness both through physical brain damage and the concussive blow to the skull. The bolt on a non-penetrative stunner is 'mushroom-headed' and impacts on the brain without entering the skull. Unconsciousness is caused by the concussive blow.

If an animal is not accurately stunned or the correct cartridge strength is not used, the stun will not be effective. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. These animals experience the pain of being shot in the head and will either be stunned again (a difficult procedure) or continue on for knifing whilst conscious.

In an attempt to improve accuracy, legislation requires that cattle are either confined in a stunning pen or have their heads 'securely fastened'. However, head restraint systems can cause great distress. The MHS says that 17% of abattoirs either do not use a restraint or use an "inefficient" restraint which can result in the stun being delivered ineffectively.

Number of cows not properly stunned in UK slaughterhouses = 230000 / year. The number at Jewish slaughter = 1314 * 0.9 = 1182, number at muslim slaughterhouses = 1727 * 0.16 = 276. Why are we singling out halal butchers again? I call bullshit on the "animal welfare" argument. There are literally 1000 times the scale at regular slaughterhouses of not-stunned animals.

It's a non-story born in racism, plain and simple.

You are using the statistics for failed stunning

114m (annual halal slaughter for animals) per year x 19% (estimate that are not stunned) = just under 22m animals where stunning is not even attempted

Though we can go back to just calling people raycis, that will be conductive towards a well-reasoned argument

For fucks sakes why am I being the voice of reason you guys should be telling me to tone it down

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 07:09:48 pm

Most animals slaughtered are chickens (about 95%), and the report stated 88% for that not 81%, your numbers are a bit off there because you're taking the biggest number of animals, but multiplying that by the non-stun rate for a small number of animals. Because chickens make up an overwhelming percentage of that 114 million it doesn't make sense to base your count on 81% at all, because that was for like 1-2% of the total animals slaughtered.

The total slaughter for the UK is around 1 billion animals (http://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk), and out of that 945 million are chickens. So any way you look at it, almost all the animals you're talking about are chickens when you just throw up a total. in this way, the Guardian were 100% accurate when they said the average is an 88% stun rate. It is, if you do it on a per-animal basis.

Even a relatively small failure rate means more suffering in UK slaughterhouses in general than the emphasis on halal would merit. If 114 million is correct, then it makes up 1/8th of the national slaughter. A 5%-10% failure rate in regular slaughterhoses for 1 billion animals is 50-100 million stun failures per year, which could near the total of all halal animals, stunned or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 09:00:39 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 07:09:48 pm

Most animals slaughtered are chickens (about 95%), and the report stated 88% for that not 81%, your numbers are a bit off there because you're taking the biggest number of animals, but multiplying that by the non-stun rate for a small number of animals. Because chickens make up an overwhelming percentage of that 114 million it doesn't make sense to base your count on 81% at all, because that was for like 1-2% of the total animals slaughtered.

Yeah, makes more sense to try make separate estimates for poultry (this includes ducks and turkeys, it's not just the statistic for chickens)

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 07:09:48 pm

The total slaughter for the UK is around 1 billion animals (http://www.viva.org.uk/what-we-do/slaughter/slaughter-farmed-animals-uk), and out of that 945 million are chickens. So any way you look at it, almost all the animals you're talking about are chickens when you just throw up a total. in this way, the Guardian were 100% accurate when they said the average is an 88% stun rate. It is, if you do it on a per-animal basis.

If we're using a Vegan magazine as a source on UK butchery (why), and the Guardian did not say that m8 and they'd even then not be accurate, good generalization though

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 07:09:48 pm

Even a relatively small failure rate means more suffering in UK slaughterhouses in general than the emphasis on halal would merit. If 114 million is correct, then it makes up 1/8th of the national slaughter. Even a small 5% failure rate is far more suffering animals than all the non-stunned halal animals.

This line of logic is limitless in its blockheadedness, we should not worry about immigrant rapists because we already have rapists, we should not worry about two demographic bombs because we have one, why should we worry if the gov collects our information when private comps already do e.t.c.
Except even worse because it substitutes the original quandary with an imagined one, so it becomes we should not worry about unnecessary suffering caused by bad slaughter practices because bad slaughter practices might exist

Also I know we're being totes meta and analyzing what makes a good source and shit but using a Vegan magazine as a source on British slaughtering is shit, because they're full of shit - percussive failure rate is low, electrical nonexistent and gas nonexistent (though gas is too slow acting imo, electrical instantaneous)

Looking at the stats as well (not from Vegan magazine, from Gov estimates), on a monthly basis (averaged from Oct-Dec2015) there were 89,667 Steers per month, 61,333 Heifers per month, 16,000 young Bulls per month, 66,667 Cows and Adult Bulls per month, 9,000 Calves per month, adding up to 242,667 cattle per month or 2,912,004 cattle per year. 3% (referencing the 2013 stats from the FSA) of that is 87,360 with Shechita method, or 4% for the Halal method for 116,480 with 16% of that unstunned for 18,636 with just throat slit.

For sheep, lamb and goat that is another story, because you cannot make a kebab without glorious lamb, and such meat has been prized before and after the rise of Islam for being readily available and quality. Again with averages from the same month from the save gov study:
1,183,667 clean sheep, 143,000 Ewes and Rams, for a total of 1,323,667 monthly or 15,884,004 annually. Shechita slaughtered (1% est.) ones make up 158,840 annually, halal slaughtered (50% est.) 7,942,002 annually with 1,508,980 of those annually slaughtered without stunning
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/cattle-sheep-and-pig-slaughter

For poultry:
78,266,667 broilers monthly, 3,966,667 broiler fowl monthly, 1,400,000 Turkeys monthly for 1,003,600,008 poultry annually. 10,036,000 annually are Shechita slaughtered (1%), 301,080,002 are Halal slaughtered (30%) of which 36,129,600 are unstunned before slaughter.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/poultry-and-poultry-meat-statistics


To put this into a more visible form, simply mandating stunning before cutting the animal's throat open would:

• Mean 105,996 cattle a year are not conscious when the cut is made
• Mean 1,667,820 goats and lambs are not conscious when the cut is made
• Mean 46,165,600 chickens are not conscious when the cut is made

That's a lot of animals suffering for little reason as the change needed to effect such a massive reduction is a very minor one, one already adopted by the majority of everyone, kosher, halal and peter, it's why I don't understand why this is such a big argument when there is an obvious solution that is inevitable and whether by action on the ground up or top down it's already happening lol
Why is there so much mass deb8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 09:00:39 pm

This line of logic is limitless in its blockheadedness, we should not worry about immigrant rapists because we already have rapists, we should not worry about two demographic bombs because we have one, why should we worry if the gov collects our information when private comps already do e.t.c.
Except even worse because it substitutes the original quandary with an imagined one, so it becom

Well, no that's not what you're doing. You're the one saying we should only care about halal butchers and dismiss any problems with other butchers. What I'm saying is you tackle the biggest problem first, then work down. You don't single out e.g. rapes by immigrants only and ignore rapes by locals, especially if local rapes are more prevalent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 09:24:18 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

Well, no that's not what you're doing.

No

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

You're the one saying we should only care about halal butchers and dismiss any problems with other butchers.

Ok so you haven't even done the courtesy of reading my posts before responding :\
I did mathematics for you Reelya, that's how much I cared for your opinion
That's a slap to the bass

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

What I'm saying is you tackle the biggest problem first, then work down.

This is the biggest problem and the easiest solved m8 where is the mass deb8 from, you're telling me to ignore an easily solved problem and instead chase after a nebulous Vegan spectre

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

You don't single out e.g. rapes by immigrants only and ignore rapes by locals, especially if local rapes are more prevalent.

You don't single out e.g. rapes by locals only, especially if rapes by immigrants are more prevalent.

Reminds me of when the Pakistani rape gangs came about and people kept bringing up Savile even though the number of Pakistanis vastly outnumbered Savile in victims, perpetrators, complicit authorities and lacking in lawyers or even being from Britain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 10:02:23 pm

IN MORE REVOLUTIONARY NEWS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11999966/Switzerland-to-vote-on-banning-banks-from-creating-money.html), The Swiss referendum on whether to ban private banks' ability to make money out of thin air and debt is coming SOON

SWISS FUCK YEAH
SWISLAND SWISLERNLAD
So that should sum up how I feel about this, it's a fantastic economic experiment that could revolutionize three centuries of banking evolution into radical new ebin directions of SWWASRLENAND

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wierd on January 19, 2016, 10:12:57 pm

Nazi blood money profiteering?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 19, 2016, 10:18:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 10:02:23 pm

IN MORE REVOLUTIONARY NEWS (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11999966/Switzerland-to-vote-on-banning-banks-from-creating-money.html), The Swiss referendum on whether to ban private banks' ability to make money out of thin air and debt is coming SOON

SWISS FUCK YEAH
SWISLAND SWISLERNLAD
So that should sum up how I feel about this, it's a fantastic economic experiment that could revolutionize three centuries of banking evolution into radical new ebin directions of SWWASRLENAND

So, basically they are trying to make the central bank into their version of the US Treasury department?

Also, wut on the mention of something as a precursor to returning to the gold standard..... I don't know how much gold switzerland has, but isn't it supposed to have a lot?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 10:27:24 pm

Quote from: wierd on January 19, 2016, 10:12:57 pm

Nazi blood money profiteering?

And also a horrible accent (at least in the German-speaking areas), as well as generally horribly unfriendly and close-minded people (IME, and at least in the German-speaking areas).
I have to admit though that this is not specific to Swiss German-speakers.

TL;DR: Deutsche Muttersprachler, go fuck yourselves!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 19, 2016, 10:30:16 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 10:27:24 pm

Quote from: wierd on January 19, 2016, 10:12:57 pm

Nazi blood money profiteering?

And also a horrible accent (at least in the German-speaking areas), as well as generally horribly unfriendly and close-minded people(IME, and at least in the German-speaking areas).
I have to admit though that this is not specific to Swiss German-speakers.

TL;DR: Deutsche Muttersprachler, go fuck yourselves!

ICH BIN EIN BERLINER

Just inserting random, lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 10:42:16 pm

Yeah, but if he had been a Züricher, I'd gladly have welcomed our new Muscovite overlords :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

idk, central banks can use adjusting the fractional reserve amount as one of the levers on the economy. A few percentage points more or less makes a big difference. Just effectively jumping to 100% fractional reserve overnight would basically cause massive deflation and crash the economy. They should gradually raise it and see it it's stable. I doubt anything "magic" happens at 100% fractional reserve as compared to e.g. 95% fractional reserve.

The fractional reserve amount in the USA/Europe are too low however: if something is already zero in most cases, then you can't use that as a lever. They should raise it whenever the economy overheats, as a buffer. Then, the government could have actually lowered it again to boost spending after the crash, without actually spending a dime of taxpayers money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 10:56:57 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 19, 2016, 10:11:36 pm

I'm amazed that you haven't decided to move to Switzerland. It's not in the EU, it's rather closed-border, it has a nice economy, direct democracy... what's not to love?

Abandoning my country?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 11:11:19 pm

Yeah, but... England, y'know? I can see how Switzerland would be an improvement, if just barely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 19, 2016, 11:15:11 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

idk, central banks can use adjusting the fractional reserve amount as one of the levers on the economy. A few percentage points more or less makes a big difference. Just effectively jumping to 100% fractional reserve overnight would basically cause massive deflation and crash the economy. They should gradually raise it and see it it's stable. I doubt anything "magic" happens at 100% fractional reserve as compared to e.g. 95% fractional reserve.

The fractional reserve amount in the USA/Europe are too low however: if something is already zero in most cases, then you can't use that as a lever. They should raise it whenever the economy overheats, as a buffer. Then, the government could have actually lowered it again to boost spending after the crash, without actually spending a dime of taxpayers money.

But at 100% fractional reserve, wouldn't 100% of the money deposited in banks be saved for further use instead of for loans/investments/paying people who want to withdraw money?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 11:20:09 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 11:11:19 pm

Yeah, but... England, y'know? I can see how Switzerland would be an improvement, if just barely.

No, in Switzerland you can see the sun in daytime, that makes it an unnatural anomaly of horrible neutrality. Just look at them, the madswossmun are trying to end the eternal samsara of borrowing and bust!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 11:24:35 pm

Eh, if they become too mad, we'll send in the cavalry. Just ask Steinbrück.

/obscuregermandomesticpoliticsjokes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 12:14:46 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 19, 2016, 11:24:35 pm

Eh, if they become too mad, we'll send in the cavalry. Just ask Steinbrück.

/obscuregermandomesticpoliticsjokes

Yeah, the POLISH Cavalry.

/attemptbyanamericantogetintothejoke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:19:24 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on January 19, 2016, 11:15:11 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

idk, central banks can use adjusting the fractional reserve amount as one of the levers on the economy. A few percentage points more or less makes a big difference. Just effectively jumping to 100% fractional reserve overnight would basically cause massive deflation and crash the economy. They should gradually raise it and see it it's stable. I doubt anything "magic" happens at 100% fractional reserve as compared to e.g. 95% fractional reserve.

The fractional reserve amount in the USA/Europe are too low however: if something is already zero in most cases, then you can't use that as a lever. They should raise it whenever the economy overheats, as a buffer. Then, the government could have actually lowered it again to boost spending after the crash, without actually spending a dime of taxpayers money.

But at 100% fractional reserve, wouldn't 100% of the money deposited in banks be saved for further use instead of for loans/investments/paying people who want to withdraw money?

No, because when you deposit the money that becomes the banks reserve, and they put credit in your account . Further "Credit" is given out just by making another bank account. They don't literally hand you the reserve cash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Quote

How it works

In most legal systems, a bank deposit is not a bailment. In other words, the funds deposited are no longer the property of the customer. The funds become the property of the bank, and the customer in turn receives an asset called a deposit account (a checking or savings account). That deposit account is a liability on the balance sheet of the bank. Each bank is legally authorized to issue credit up to a specified multiple of its reserves
...
Fractional-reserve banking allows banks to create credit in the form of bank deposits, which represent immediate liquidity to depositors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 01:14:50 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2016, 09:24:18 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

Well, no that's not what you're doing.

No

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

You're the one saying we should only care about halal butchers and dismiss any problems with other butchers.

Ok so you haven't even done the courtesy of reading my posts before responding :\
I did mathematics for you Reelya, that's how much I cared for your opinion
That's a slap to the bass

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

What I'm saying is you tackle the biggest problem first, then work down.

This is the biggest problem and the easiest solved m8 where is the mass deb8 from, you're telling me to ignore an easily solved problem and instead chase after a nebulous Vegan spectre

Quote from: Reelya on January 19, 2016, 09:11:00 pm

You don't single out e.g. rapes by immigrants only and ignore rapes by locals, especially if local rapes are more prevalent.

You don't single out e.g. rapes by locals only, especially if rapes by immigrants are more prevalent.

Reminds me of when the Pakistani rape gangs came about and people kept bringing up Savile even though the number of Pakistanis vastly outnumbered Savile in victims, perpetrators, complicit authorities and lacking in lawyers or even being from Britain

What madness is this

I find myself in agreement with you. Probably because I'm tired so it's harder for my brain to make reasoning errors without telling me about it. Also probably because I give fewer pats about cow suffering than I do about human suffering. Or something.

But also because ease/capability of affecting halal/Jewish animal slaughter to be more human or whatever or reduce amount is somewhat more easily accomplished than reducing failure rates. I would not consider saying it would be twenty times easier to be an exaggeration.

Numbers helps too, probably. Oh! And simple solution proposed.

This is the only way I can rationalize my possibly actually being convinced of something on the Internet forums where I come to try and be convinced of things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 03:02:18 am

I was more skeptical about conservatives suddenly affecting a deep concern for the treatment of livestock. Usually they're the ones telling animal rights people to give it a rest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 20, 2016, 03:02:42 am

In Sweden neither halal nor kosher meat is banned, but the slaughter process is because of how it falls under inhumane treatment of animals, and it would be for everyone, regardless of religion. You can still produce either as long as you follow proper standards. My father used to work as an animal health/safety official, among other things he inspected a butchery that produced halal - the livestock went through the exact same procedure as the non-halal stock, the only difference was that they would have an imam come in and bless/approve the meat at the end of the production line.

 

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 03:18:42 pm

There's questioning, and then there's "WAKE UP SHEEPLE! MSM is all in a conspiracy to hide Muslim atrocities right in front of our eyes because....well, just because!"
When you have to rely on obscure, questionable, highly biased "media" sources to build your argument, that might be a sign there's something wrong with your argument.

A few months ago I would have agreed with you. Then these stories (http://www.google.se/url?q=http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22067442.ab&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwih7cvq8rfKAhUEZQ8KHUeMCdQQFggPMAA&usg=AFQjCNFu0SMjKPoTm4VdhFKU-RoUMmnf4Q) (English) (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival) started surfacing, and it turned out that the sources I had dismissed out of hand as "obscure, questionable and highly biased" had been the ones telling the truth all along.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 03:09:14 am

Vaguely related: I've found this interesting theory on how to deal with things that are very uncertain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dempster–Shafer_theory), and it seems to be potentially applicable to dealing with figuring out this "which media source to believe" business.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:32:37 am

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 03:02:18 am

I was more skeptical about conservatives suddenly affecting a deep concern for the treatment of livestock. Usually they're the ones telling animal rights people to give it a rest.

There's economic necessity and then there's cruelty. Battery farming is an unfortunate economic necessity in the modern world, as an example.

Quote from: scriver on January 20, 2016, 03:02:42 am

In Sweden neither halal nor kosher meat is banned, but the slaughter process is because of how it falls under inhumane treatment of animals, and it would be for everyone, regardless of religion. You can still produce either as long as you follow proper standards. My father used to work as an animal health/safety official, among other things he inspected a butchery that produced halal - the livestock went through the exact same procedure as the non-halal stock, the only difference was that they would have an imam come in and bless/approve the meat at the end of the production line.

Then it's not halal. By definition.

Quote from: scriver on January 20, 2016, 03:02:42 am

Quote from: RedKing on January 19, 2016, 03:18:42 pm

There's questioning, and then there's "WAKE UP SHEEPLE! MSM is all in a conspiracy to hide Muslim atrocities right in front of our eyes because....well, just because!"
When you have to rely on obscure, questionable, highly biased "media" sources to build your argument, that might be a sign there's something wrong with your argument.

A few months ago I would have agreed with you. Then these stories (http://www.google.se/url?q=http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22067442.ab&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwih7cvq8rfKAhUEZQ8KHUeMCdQQFggPMAA&usg=AFQjCNFu0SMjKPoTm4VdhFKU-RoUMmnf4Q) (English) (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival) started surfacing, and it turned out that the sources I had dismissed out of hand as "obscure, questionable and highly biased" had been the ones telling the truth all along.

The guy saying "Muslamic ray guns" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M) got laughed at until it turned out he was trying to say "Muslim rape gangs" (https://archive.is/ygooj).

Then it suddenly became very unfunny.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 03:09:14 am

Vaguely related: I've found this interesting theory on how to deal with things that are very uncertain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dempster–Shafer_theory), and it seems to be potentially applicable to dealing with figuring out this "which media source to believe" business.

Weird that's pretty much what I've been using. You find the points where the two sources collide and it falls to either side of it.

As an example from the 13-year-old girl stuff from before:
1. Media source alleges gang rape. Police state no rape occurred. Police do not state that no sexual activity occurred. Likely that child was involved in sexual relations in some way.
2. Media source alleges kidnapping. Police state that the child went missing but no kidnapping occurred. Child definitely went missing for a period of time.

So, the facts we have are:

• No confirmation that sexual activity did not occur, police state rape did not occur.
  
• Child definitely went missing for a period of time.
  
• Child was 13, this is the legal definition of rape unless the other person was under 18 (and even then that's a very gray area).

So, we have three logical choices:
- Police are covering up the deliberate kidnapping and gangrape of a 13-year-old child.
- Parents are upset by their 13-year-old child going out and having sex and are stating that what happened was rape (which it likely was under legal definition). Police have elected not to class it as rape because of reasons.
- Kid went missing for a period of time and then made up a story about what happened to not get in trouble.

In terms of likelihood, I'd rank them 25/60/15. European police have a history of disagreeing with parents on what the rape of a minor is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:53:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 04:53:37 am

I understand non-Muslims not wanting to eat halal meat, personally, even the slightly more humane variations. It seems bit akin to not wanting your baby baptised if you're an atheist (assuming you live in an imaginary Christian country where all babies are baptised by default).

The Imam of a Salafist mosque in Cologne says 'The events of New Year’s Eve were the girls' own fault, because they were half naked and wearing perfume. It is not surprising the men wanted to attack them.' (http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-01-17/imam-mecheti-v-kyolne-poyasnil-chto-bezhency-nasiluyut-nemok-iz-za-ih-priyatnogo) (in the video on the page).

Victim-blaming seems to be the theme today, actually; I heard a BBC Asian Network piece where a Muslim caller phoned in to basically say that all the terror attacks, etc, are entirely the fault of our foreign policy, and that if we're going to start talking about what terrorists are doing then we should start talking about how Hitler reflects all Christians. According to the caller, Islamophobia (which, in my opinion, shares much in common with 'The Patriarchy') is the real issue, and we shouldn't talk about these Islamist terror attacks because it just promotes Islamophobia.

It sounds surprisingly similar to what happened after the Paris terror attacks. The Muslim guy standing in the Paris centre with a blindfold on and a sign around his neck saying to hug him because not all Muslims are terrorists. It stank of self-pity and a diversion from the topic instead of giving sympathy to the victims. There were quite a lot of news stories like that.

"Why should other Muslims apologise for what happened?" was the most common one. And, honestly, they shouldn't but no one was arguing that they should, just that it needed to be condemned by Muslim leaders.

The real question is whether Islam's written ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims. And, from that, whether Islamic ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

...but it was condemned by pretty much everyone, with sole exception of al-Nusra?

Also, almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies. Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy. Hell, even the traditionally portrayed as "peaceful" ideologies - like Buddhism - are not free of violence in the name of ideology. So that question is not "real", it's just stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 20, 2016, 06:44:36 am

The crusades were pretty low on casualties if you compare them with the 20 million native americans that were genocided in the name of the Lord

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

...but it was condemned by pretty much everyone, with sole exception of al-Nusra?

Also, almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies. Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy. Hell, even the traditionally portrayed as "peaceful" ideologies - like Buddhism - are not free of violence in the name of ideology. So that question is not "real", it's just stupid.

It really wasn't condemned by pretty much everyone. There were a few Imams that spoke out, but not very many.

So because Christianity was a shit a millenia ago, that gives people the rights to be a shit now?

Do you understand what is wrong with that logic?

P.S. The Crusades weren't really that bad, they were punishment wars after the conquest of Iberia by Moors.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 20, 2016, 06:44:36 am

The crusades were pretty low on casualties if you compare them with the 20 million native americans that were genocided in the name of the Lord

Again, see above.

Although I honestly don't think you can claim that colonialism was religious rather than socio-economic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

So because Christianity was a shit a millenia ago, that gives people the rights to be a shit now?

Do you understand what is wrong with that logic?

I did not say that. I've said that your question is utterly useless. It doesn't mean that I condone such behaviour - and the very fact that you did interpret it in such a way speaks volumes of your attitude towards honest discussion.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

P.S. The Crusades weren't really that bad, they were punishment wars after the conquest of Iberia by Moors.

I didn't mean "crusades" as in "The Crusades", I meant "hundreds of years of world-spanning colonialism". Did you really think I would've called those small-scale invasions "world-shattering"?

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

Again, see above.

Although I honestly don't think you can claim that colonialism was religious rather than socio-economic.

"Socio-economic" and "religious" are practically the same thing in Protestant ideology. If you're financially successful, it means that the God favour you - including the case where you get rich by enslaving other people - or rather, "non-people" - as the ideologists of that age were big on claiming that black people and other natives were not actually humans, but rather human-shaped monkeys with no soul and etc. It's why the South of USA was simultaneously extremely religious and very big on usage of slaves one and a half century ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:55:55 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

I did not say that. I've said that your question is utterly useless. It doesn't mean that I condone such behaviour - and the very fact that you did interpret it in such a way speaks volumes of your attitude towards honest discussion.

You've not addressed why the question was useless at all, then, other than to frame it against things in the distant past. You are still making no logical sense.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

I didn't mean "crusades" as in "The Crusades", I meant "hundreds of years of world-spanning colonialism". Did you really think I would've called those small-scale invasions "world-shattering"?

Do you condemn the Turkish for their conquest of Constantinople and Greece? Do you condemn the Timurids for their conquest of Northern India and the forced conversion of millions of Hindus, Jainist and Sikhs to Islam? Do you condemn the Moors for their conquest of Iberia and the murder and rape of hundreds of thousands of native Iberians?

No? You're not condemning any of those things?

Why not?

Colonialism is something practiced by everyone. It is a method of survival. Condemn not those who create their colonies, but those who did not fight back hard enough.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

"Socio-economic" and "religious" are practically the same thing in Protestant ideology. If you're financially successful, it means that the God favour you - including the case where you get rich by enslaving other people - or rather, "non-people" - as the ideologists of that age were big on claiming that black people and other natives were not actually humans, but rather human-shaped monkeys with no soul and etc. It's why the South of USA was simultaneously extremely religious and very big on usage of slaves one and a half century ago.

::)

Of course it was, which is why Britain banned slavery pretty much before anyone else. Clearly a fundamental part of Protestant ideology.

Stop being so Amerocentric. ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 08:27:55 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:55:55 am

Stop being so Amerocentric. ;)

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:21:10 am

Quote from: nullBolt

Stop being so Amerocentric. ;)

Mm, given the wide differences in racial and class issues between America and Europe, it's sometimes very apparent in conversations like this that Americans are approaching these issues with certain presumptions that just aren't applicable to our own societies. It can be quite irritating, I find, particularly in real life.

oh ok

since apparently I'm an American now, I'll just shut up and let you two, as proper Europeans, continue your discourse in this European thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 20, 2016, 08:58:19 am

(Sergarr's Russian)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on January 20, 2016, 09:13:38 am

Not if you don't belieeeeeve that he is.  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 20, 2016, 09:14:28 am

I must say, it's sometimes very apparent that Europeans approach international issues with the goal of talking down to people rather than having a real discussion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 20, 2016, 09:16:57 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 08:27:55 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:55:55 am

Stop being so Amerocentric. ;)

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:21:10 am

Quote from: nullBolt

Stop being so Amerocentric. ;)

Mm, given the wide differences in racial and class issues between America and Europe, it's sometimes very apparent in conversations like this that Americans are approaching these issues with certain presumptions that just aren't applicable to our own societies. It can be quite irritating, I find, particularly in real life.

oh ok

since apparently I'm an American now, I'll just shut up and let you two, as proper Europeans, continue your discourse in this European thread

While I agree that calling Sergarr Amerocentric is pretty hilarious and not something I think he'd ever expected he'd be called on these forums, I must say that

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

"Socio-economic" and "religious" are practically the same thing in Protestant ideology. If you're financially successful, it means that the God favour you - including the case where you get rich by enslaving other people - or rather, "non-people" - as the ideologists of that age were big on claiming that black people and other natives were not actually humans, but rather human-shaped monkeys with no soul and etc. It's why the South of USA was simultaneously extremely religious and very big on usage of slaves one and a half century ago.

Is mostly a feature of American protestantism, and spread to Europe through returning migrants and 80's cultural influence. The European protestant churches tend do not agree with that kind of thinking.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

Although I honestly don't think you can claim that colonialism was religious rather than socio-economic.

Religion was certainly part of how people justified it, though. Same kind of unreasoning that Islamists use today.

Quote from: penguinofhonor on January 20, 2016, 09:14:28 am

I must say, it's sometimes very apparent that Europeans approach international issues with the goal of talking down to people rather than having a real discussion.

You mean exactly like Americans do?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 20, 2016, 09:18:58 am

There was some subtlety to my post, but you missed it because your eurobrain will never really get our culture.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

Quote from: Arx on January 20, 2016, 08:58:19 am

(Sergarr's Russian)

Doesn't mean he can't be Amerocentric. ;)

And, to be honest, that makes it even worse that he's trying to compare two countries that he doesn't seem to know anything about.

Quote from: penguinofhonor on January 20, 2016, 09:14:28 am

I must say, it's sometimes very apparent that Europeans approach international issues with the goal of talking down to people rather than having a real discussion.

We've literally been having a real discussion for quite a few pages until someone came in and started saying that because the American Protestants were supposedly bad that it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert.

(And, to be honest, considering the atrocities Russia has done not only to nearby nations but its own people within the past 100 years, I don't think condemning political ideologies long since gone is a very logical idea.)

Quote from: scriver on January 20, 2016, 09:16:57 am

While I agree that calling Sergarr Amerocentric is pretty hilarious and not something I think he'd ever expected he'd be called on these forums, I must say that

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

"Socio-economic" and "religious" are practically the same thing in Protestant ideology. If you're financially successful, it means that the God favour you - including the case where you get rich by enslaving other people - or rather, "non-people" - as the ideologists of that age were big on claiming that black people and other natives were not actually humans, but rather human-shaped monkeys with no soul and etc. It's why the South of USA was simultaneously extremely religious and very big on usage of slaves one and a half century ago.

Is mostly a feature of American protestantism, and spread to Europe through returning migrants and 80's cultural influence. The European protestant churches tend do not agree with that kind of thinking.

Exactly what I was referring to. It was also a bit tongue in cheek at the same time, mind.

Quote from: scriver on January 20, 2016, 09:16:57 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

Although I honestly don't think you can claim that colonialism was religious rather than socio-economic.

Religion was certainly part of how people justified it, though. Same kind of unreasoning that Islamists use today.

Of course it was part of the justification, but that doesn't mean the religion itself had a negative ideology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 20, 2016, 09:30:54 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

We've literally been having a real discussion for quite a few pages until someone came in and started saying that because the American Protestants were supposedly bad that it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert.

*or be an underclass that gets taxed more heavily and can't be in regular government

aka prepare yourself for cultural enrichment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 09:44:56 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

Quote from: Arx on January 20, 2016, 08:58:19 am

(Sergarr's Russian)

Doesn't mean he can't be Amerocentric. ;)

And, to be honest, that makes it even worse that he's trying to compare two countries that he doesn't seem to know anything about.

Which "two countries" am I comparing?

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

Quote from: penguinofhonor on January 20, 2016, 09:14:28 am

I must say, it's sometimes very apparent that Europeans approach international issues with the goal of talking down to people rather than having a real discussion.

We've literally been having a real discussion for quite a few pages until someone came in and started saying that because the American Protestants were supposedly bad that it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert.

what the shit

stop putting words into my mouth

look if you're bad at reading, I'll copy it again:

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 07:47:17 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 07:25:34 am

So because Christianity was a shit a millenia ago, that gives people the rights to be a shit now?

Do you understand what is wrong with that logic?

I did not say that. I've said that your question is utterly useless. It doesn't mean that I condone such behaviour - and the very fact that you did interpret it in such a way speaks volumes of your attitude towards honest discussion.

try finding out where do I speak in favour of Islam mass murder will ya

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

(And, to be honest, considering the atrocities Russia has done not only to nearby nations but its own people within the past 100 years, I don't think condemning political ideologies long since gone is a very logical idea.)

and again with failure to read

welp, time to quote myself again:

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

...but it was condemned by pretty much everyone, with sole exception of al-Nusra?

Also, almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies. Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy. Hell, even the traditionally portrayed as "peaceful" ideologies - like Buddhism - are not free of violence in the name of ideology. So that question is not "real", it's just stupid.

in case this is still too tl;dr for EURO STRONK, i'll simplify the task:

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies.

see here's a thing, i've mentioned christianity simply because it was the first thing that came to my mind in relation to Islam

it doesn't mean that i'm letting other ideologies slide through

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:50:32 am

Quote from: Graknorke on January 20, 2016, 09:30:54 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:21:24 am

We've literally been having a real discussion for quite a few pages until someone came in and started saying that because the American Protestants were supposedly bad that it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert.

*or be an underclass that gets taxed more heavily and can't be in regular government

aka prepare yourself for cultural enrichment

You can only be in the underclass if you're a Christian. This is because the Qu'ran states that Christians should be left alone as they follow the same god as Muslims and that there are many paths to Allah.

If you're a Jew, "pagan" (i.e. anything other than Jew, Christian or Muslim), former Muslim or an atheist, you will be killed. There's a long list of other stuff that put you on the kill list, but honestly I'd be here all day. Get some idea off this guy. (https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/3t5jqm/islam_forbids_killing_the_innocent/)

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 09:44:56 am

<snip>

Let me just quote you for a second:

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy.

Here you are making a direct comparison, stating that modern Islam (which has caused the genocide of at least a few hundred thousand in the past few years, at least judging by the rapidly falling Kurdish and Yazidi populations) is not as bad as something that happened centuries ago. Nevermind the essential enslaving of women in most of the Middle-East or anything, just the Kurdish genocides.

Just have a think about that for a second, please.

If that's not suggesting that what is currently going on is not a problem, I don't really understand what is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:17:58 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:50:32 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 09:44:56 am

<snip>

Let me just quote you for a second:

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy.

Here you are making a direct comparison, stating that modern Islam (which has caused the genocide of at least a few hundred thousand in the past few years, at least judging by the rapidly falling Kurdish and Yazidi populations) is not as bad as something that happened centuries ago. Nevermind the essential enslaving of women in most of the Middle-East or anything, just the Kurdish genocides.

Just have a think about that for a second, please.

If that's not suggesting that what is currently going on is not a problem, I don't really understand what is.

"I don't really understand" it is. "Not as bad" doesn't fucking mean that it is not a problem. It just means that it's comparatively less world-encompassing. It's still a problem. The real aim of my post was against asking such dumb questions as, quote:

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:53:17 am

The real question is whether Islam's written ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims. And, from that, whether Islamic ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims.

, because the answer is fucking obvious to anyone that has read history on ideologies.

Really, the only reason I can see behind posting something like that is baiting for "pro-Islam" people, which seems to be the leading hypothesis at this point, given how you've immediately started to accuse me of saying that "it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert".

well i'm not the fish you're looking for

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 10:37:01 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:17:58 am

"I don't really understand" it is. "Not as bad" doesn't fucking mean that it is not a problem. It just means that it's comparatively less world-encompassing. It's still a problem. The real aim of my post was against asking such dumb questions as, quote:

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:53:17 am

The real question is whether Islam's written ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims. And, from that, whether Islamic ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims.

, because the answer is fucking obvious to anyone that has read history on ideologies.

Really, the only reason I can see behind posting something like that is baiting for "pro-Islam" people, which seems to be the leading hypothesis at this point, given how you've immediately started to accuse me of saying that "it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert".

well i'm not the fish you're looking for

Except to claim that Jainism, Buddhism or even Christianity are inherently violent ideologies is completely and utterly wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 10:41:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 10:34:43 am

Do you think it's appropriate for Europeans to come in and start educating the USA about gun control after every mass shooting, for example? I don't. It's your thing to deal with, not ours. Similarly, I don't personally grant a huge degree of credence to, for example, some guy from the USA who's never heard of Rotherham when he starts telling me how to deal with our racial issues in this country.

There's no way to test for whether someone legitimately knows 'enough' about whatever culture they're discussing, obviously, so I suppose you have to assume people know what they're talking about until they demonstrate that they don't.

It wouldn't be real appropriate, no (and we'd tell you to bug off), but our politicians could use a lession or two in how to do proper gun control. Or at least a lession or two in how to compromise :P

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 10:37:01 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:17:58 am

"I don't really understand" it is. "Not as bad" doesn't fucking mean that it is not a problem. It just means that it's comparatively less world-encompassing. It's still a problem. The real aim of my post was against asking such dumb questions as, quote:

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:53:17 am

The real question is whether Islam's written ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims. And, from that, whether Islamic ideology is inherently violent against non-Muslims.

, because the answer is fucking obvious to anyone that has read history on ideologies.

Really, the only reason I can see behind posting something like that is baiting for "pro-Islam" people, which seems to be the leading hypothesis at this point, given how you've immediately started to accuse me of saying that "it's okay if the Qur'an states any non-Muslims put to the sword if they don't forcibly convert".

well i'm not the fish you're looking for

Except to claim that Jainism, Buddhism or even Christianity are inherently violent ideologies is completely and utterly wrong.

Christianity and Buddhism have been used as an excuse for war or have been done under the banner of god as often as Islam has. It doesn't make them inherently violent though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:51:05 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 10:37:01 am

Except to claim that Jainism, Buddhism or even Christianity are inherently violent ideologies is completely and utterly wrong.

Every ideology is inherently violent in response to any ideology that contradicts it. No exceptions.

EDIT: At least, among those who have survived for any measurable period of time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 10:56:54 am

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 03:02:18 am

I was more skeptical about conservatives suddenly affecting a deep concern for the treatment of livestock. Usually they're the ones telling animal rights people to give it a rest.

Honestly, the concern is not deep, I give little thought to animal welfare; least of all for animals destined for the dinner plate. I do however have a deep respect for them, and I do believe more people should understand and be thankful for what had to die in order to feed them, if you haven't killed your food before or seen a slaughter meat is just meat, but after that it's much more meaningful.
I also find we should treat cows better, though that's just some Hindu influence from childhood (I am quite biased for cows), I believe we should get rid of cosmetic testing on animals (but medical is completely fine) and I think if we're going to slaughter animals in such large numbers we should do them the courtesy of making death swift.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 01:14:50 am

What madness is this
I find myself in agreement with you. Probably because I'm tired so it's harder for my brain to make reasoning errors without telling me about it. Also probably because I give fewer pats about cow suffering than I do about human suffering. Or something.
But also because ease/capability of affecting halal/Jewish animal slaughter to be more human or whatever or reduce amount is somewhat more easily accomplished than reducing failure rates. I would not consider saying it would be twenty times easier to be an exaggeration.
Numbers helps too, probably. Oh! And simple solution proposed.
This is the only way I can rationalize my possibly actually being convinced of something on the Internet forums where I come to try and be convinced of things.

2016 is the year for rarities it seems. I don't think there's a lot of people who place animal suffering above human suffering (I've only ever met one person to do so, and she was completely bonkers) but this is a really quick and easy solution, that does not even violate kosher or halal principles ;D
Very rare is it to find a solution that literally keeps  everyone happy

Quote from: scriver on January 20, 2016, 03:02:42 am

A few months ago I would have agreed with you. Then these stories (http://www.google.se/url?q=http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22067442.ab&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwih7cvq8rfKAhUEZQ8KHUeMCdQQFggPMAA&usg=AFQjCNFu0SMjKPoTm4VdhFKU-RoUMmnf4Q) (English) (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival) started surfacing, and it turned out that the sources I had dismissed out of hand as "obscure, questionable and highly biased" had been the ones telling the truth all along.

I must admit I don't like the way things turned out, it was a thoroughly unsettling shaking of everything we knew and took for granted.

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:21:10 am

For that matter, some historians argue that the only reason Europe isn't Islamic today is because Charles Martel pushed back the Umayyad caliphate in the Battle of Tours (AD 732).

Well duh, then you've got the endless slave raids on Russians, Poles and Ukrainians up until the Cossacks finally BTFO the Crimeans, or the Barbary Corsair raids that depopulated the French and Spanish coast, the Balkan slavery or East African Arab slave trade, or the cheeki genocidal run through India. The Ottomans also kinda fucked up when they abandoned their last siege of Vienna, they reasoned they had been the undisputed power for so long they could just come back any time they wanted to complete their conquest of Europe, only by then the European powers had industrialized.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

Also, almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies. Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy. Hell, even the traditionally portrayed as "peaceful" ideologies - like Buddhism - are not free of violence in the name of ideology. So that question is not "real", it's just stupid.

There is a profound difference between a religion started by a Carpenter and a religion started by a Statesman, I find it quite interesting how short term solutions that were put in effect by Muhammed or the Rashidun Caliphate turned out to not be so short term, creating the precedence for Jihad as invasion, the notion of the infidel being against God, apostasy warranting death, special taxes for the people of the book
There is a big difference between an ideology used for violence and one which has uses of violence by design

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

There's plenty of Christian bible verses about just war and the like, and taking up the sword, usually in defense of Christianity. Islam goes into a bit more detail on the subject, and is currently primarily based in rather poor, strife-torn regions, which leads unsurprisingly to violent interpretations. Plus the whole 'very traditional culture focused on one's history and family' which easily leads to resentment for things from several hundred years ago or more, and means any change introduced by outsiders (or insiders, for that matter) is liable to be viewed with extreme hostility.

As for settlement of America....Gold, God, and Glory. Spain had plenty of religious reasons riding alongside those socio-economic reasons. (and I would be disappointed if you said you thought Mid-Eastern Islam's current behavior/stance was purely because of the nature of the religion and had nothing to do with similar socio-economic stuff(and no, that doesn't justify it, which I always end up having to say))

Oh and Christianity is ideologically violent against other ideologies even if it isn't inherently physically violent. Missionaries and 'God is the One True God, and there is no God but He' is an act of war, ideologically speaking. Wouldn't have gotten so popular/stayed mostly the same, otherwise, really.

Buddha was prince, Loud Whisper :P you sayin Buddha was more violent than Jesus? Do we need to have a peace-off here? Gandhi will wreck you shit scrub he's so peaceful get nukd m8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 11:05:02 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 10:56:54 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 06:41:57 am

Also, almost every ideology is inherently violent against most other ideologies. Islam today is pretty mild in comparison to the world-shattering crusade that Christians have pulled just a couple of centuries ago, enslaving and killing dozens of millions of people on its way of supremacy. Hell, even the traditionally portrayed as "peaceful" ideologies - like Buddhism - are not free of violence in the name of ideology. So that question is not "real", it's just stupid.

There is a profound difference between a religion started by a Carpenter and a religion started by a Statesman, I find it quite interesting how short term solutions that were put in effect by Muhammed or the Rashidun Caliphate turned out to not be so short term, creating the precedence for Jihad as invasion, the notion of the infidel being against God, apostasy warranting death, special taxes for the people of the book
There is a big difference between an ideology used for violence and one which has uses of violence by design

Every ideology that has survived past its inception has incorporated violence as a method of self-preservation against ideologies antagonistic to it and heresies.  While there is certainly a degree of difference between Islam and most other modern religions, that difference is simply because modern Islam is significantly more invasive in society and thus it has more antagonistic to it ideologies and heresies to combat. A matter of scale.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:08:13 am

Erdogan is not a good source to quote, he says and does some pretty screwed up shit:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=a-muslim-can-never-commit-genocide-erdogan-defends-bashir-2009-11-08

Quote

The statement came hours after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan defended al-Bashir’s visit by saying, “A Muslim can never commit genocide.”

He's about as credible on the subject of muslims as a holocaust denier is on WWII. When he said "there are no moderate and immoderate muslims, only muslims", he wasn't saying that all muslims were fundamentalist extremists, he was claiming that there are no extremists in the first place. As such, he has zero credibility on this issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 11:10:23 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

There's plenty of Christian bible verses about just war and the like, and taking up the sword, usually in defense of Christianity. Islam goes into a bit more detail on the subject, and is currently primarily based in rather poor, strife-torn regions, which leads unsurprisingly to violent interpretations. Plus the whole 'very traditional culture focused on one's history and family' which easily leads to resentment for things from several hundred years ago or more, and means any change introduced by outsiders (or insiders, for that matter) is liable to be viewed with extreme hostility.

As for settlement of America....Gold, God, and Glory. Spain had plenty of religious reasons riding alongside those socio-economic reasons. (and I would be disappointed if you said you thought Mid-Eastern Islam's current behavior/stance was purely because of the nature of the religion and had nothing to do with similar socio-economic stuff(and no, that doesn't justify it, which I always end up having to say))

Oh and Christianity is ideologically violent against other ideologies even if it isn't inherently physically violent. Missionaries and 'God is the One True God, and there is no God but He' is an act of war, ideologically speaking. Wouldn't have gotten so popular/stayed mostly the same, otherwise, really.

Buddha was prince, Loud Whisper :P you sayin Buddha was more violent than Jesus? Do we need to have a peace-off here? Gandhi will wreck you shit scrub he's so peaceful get nukd m8

Aren't there also bible verses in the opposite direction? Like swords to plowshares?

Edit: I think this has gotten derailed into the 'religion and spirituality' threads territory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:12:27 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 11:05:02 am

Every ideology that has survived past its inception has incorporated violence as a method of self-preservation against ideologies antagonistic to it and heresies.  While there is certainly a degree of difference between Islam and most other modern religions, that difference is simply because modern Islam is significantly more invasive in society and thus it has more antagonistic to it ideologies and heresies to combat. A matter of scale.

So you're saying there's not a world of difference between:

Quote

"If you leave Islam, you are not innocent."
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
As well as: Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
If you are a homosexual, you are not innocent.
al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."
Qur'an (7:80-84)- "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"
If you are a man and dresses like a woman, you are not innocent.
Bukhari (72:774) - "The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman."
If you criticize Allah, his prophets and his friends, you are not innocent.
Qur'an (33:57) - "Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in this world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained... accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Bukhari (59:369) This verse outlines some of what is mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The murder of a Jewish poet who wrote a poem which insulted Mohammed because it mocked Muslims.
If you disbelieve Allah (pretty much everyone in this subreddit), you are not innocent.
This is already covered pretty extensively in my first few quotes as well. "Non-believers" typically relates to atheists, but can also mean people not of the book or even in some cases Jews/Christians. "Hypocrites" is generally the term for apostates or those who don't adhere to clearly set out rules and "fight in the way of Allah" (Which is why there's so many Muslim to Muslim murders). Both are pretty clearly described as non-innocents though:
Quran (33:60-62) -"If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

And Sikhism's "don't let anyone be forcibly converted nearby"?

I really don't think you know as much about Islam as you claim to do. You don't know anything about it, in fact.

P.S. I'd highly advise you to look up Jainism.

Quote from: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 11:10:23 am

Aren't there also bible verses in the opposite direction? Like swords to plowshares?

There's quite a lot of peaceful Christian quotes, as well as no clear method of abrogation in Christianity. Compared with Islam's abrogation (the last verse is the true one and all earlier ones are essentially rendered null), it's a whole different board game.

Combine that with the Bible being converted from Aramaic -> Greek -> Latin -> Everything else and you've got a mess of possibly interpretations. Islam doesn't have that because Islam's ideology is inherently pure. As Erdogan said, "Islam is Islam".

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:08:13 am

Erdogan is not a good source to quote, he says and does some pretty screwed up shit:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=a-muslim-can-never-commit-genocide-erdogan-defends-bashir-2009-11-08

Quote

The statement came hours after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan defended al-Bashir’s visit by saying, “A Muslim can never commit genocide.”

He's about as credible on the subject of muslims as a holocaust denier is on WWII.

There's the thing, though. He's right. If Muslims aren't genociding other Muslims, it's not genocide under Sharia law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:15:54 am

Erdogan is an insane guy who also claims no muslim every committed genocide. He's not a credible source.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:17:53 am

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:15:54 am

Erdogan is an insane guy who also claims no muslim every committed genocide. He's not a credible source.

He's right in that a Muslim cannot commit genocide under Sharia law. You can interpret it how you like, but he's sound in his beliefs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 20, 2016, 11:20:09 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:50:32 am

Here you are making a direct comparison, stating that modern Islam (which has caused the genocide of at least a few hundred thousand in the past few years, at least judging by the rapidly falling Kurdish and Yazidi populations) is not as bad as something that happened centuries ago. Nevermind the essential enslaving of women in most of the Middle-East or anything, just the Kurdish genocides.

Get your facts str8, m8. The truth is that modern Islam has single-handedly – without any help from western countries – caused the genocide of at least a few hundred million innocent civilians in the past few years, and at least 99.99% of the victims have been light-skinned non-Muslim women and children. This is the one and only Truth – you may not be ready to accept it yet, but eventually you'll have to.

Although you still sound like you're partly plugged into the Matrix, I'm pleased to see that you're heading in the right direction, fam. Keep fighting the Good Fight, 14/88.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:17:58 am

well i'm not the fish you're looking for

Based nullBolt has exposed you as the puny progressive weakling that you are. Your soppy slavic nationalism is clearly not stronk enough to fight off the barbarian hordes and protect your fatherland.

You need to up your game and start lifting, m88.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 11:21:02 am

Stop with the shitposting :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:23:04 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 20, 2016, 11:20:09 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 09:50:32 am

Here you are making a direct comparison, stating that modern Islam (which has caused the genocide of at least a few hundred thousand in the past few years, at least judging by the rapidly falling Kurdish and Yazidi populations) is not as bad as something that happened centuries ago. Nevermind the essential enslaving of women in most of the Middle-East or anything, just the Kurdish genocides.

Get your facts str8, m8. The truth is that modern Islam has single-handedly – without any help from western countries – caused the genocide of at least a few hundred million innocent civilians in the past few years, and at least 99.99% of the victims have been light-skinned non-Muslim women and children. This is the one and only Truth – you may not be ready to accept it yet, but eventually you'll have to.

Although you still sound like you're partly plugged into the Matrix, I'm pleased to see that you're heading in the right direction, fam. Keep fighting the Good Fight, 14/88.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 10:17:58 am

well i'm not the fish you're looking for

Based nullBolt has exposed you as the puny progressive weakling that you are. Your soppy slavic nationalism is clearly not stronk enough to fight off the barbarian hordes and protect your fatherland.

You need to up your game and start lifting, m88.

(http://i.imgur.com/VA1qBqG.png)

I do genuinely find it kind of disgusting you're making light of the Yazidi and Kurdish genocides. I mean, fuck, the Yazidis are fleeing to Somalia to escape from being butchered but it's fine because no one cares about Zoroastrians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:24:42 am

The concept "all muslims are exactly the same" is not credible. Not all muslims are ISIS supporters, and not all of them want to live under a theocracy. It's a minority of muslims who advocate for more extreme laws, the sheer bulk of those populations don't even want to know about it.

You can ask "well why don't more of them rise up to stop the others then?", but you have the same thing in any number of populations. Lot's of catholics did nothing about the IRA for example, and it wasn't really that long ago that "The Irish are all bloodthirsty monsters out to kill us" was a thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:27:07 am

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 11:24:42 am

The concept "all muslims are exactly the same" is not credible. Not all muslims are ISIS supporters, and not all of them want to live under a theocracy. It's a minority of muslims who advocate for more extreme laws, the sheer bulk of those populations don't even want to know about it.

You can ask "well why don't more of them rise up to stop the others then?", but you have the same thing in any number of populations. Lot's of catholics did nothing about the IRA for example, and it wasn't really that long ago that "The Irish are all bloodthirsty monsters out to kill us" was a thing.

Dude, did you even read the PEW statistics a few pages back? Have you read anything posted in this thread?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 11:27:19 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:12:27 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 11:05:02 am

Every ideology that has survived past its inception has incorporated violence as a method of self-preservation against ideologies antagonistic to it and heresies.  While there is certainly a degree of difference between Islam and most other modern religions, that difference is simply because modern Islam is significantly more invasive in society and thus it has more antagonistic to it ideologies and heresies to combat. A matter of scale.

So you're saying there's not a world of difference between:

-snip-

And Sikhism's "don't let anyone be forcibly converted nearby"?

I really don't think you know as much about Islam as you claim to do. You don't know anything about it, in fact.

P.S. I'd highly advise you to look up Jainism.

"So you're saying there's not a world of difference between:"
"modern Islam is significantly more invasive in society and thus it has more antagonistic to it ideologies and heresies to combat. A matter of scale."

Wow, it's almost like I've said the exact same thing!

P.S. Please try to read past the first line, you're rapidly approaching the stereotypical-American-if-you-believe-Russian-propaganda level. I mean seriously do you even europe or are you just failing to pretend

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 20, 2016, 11:29:17 am

Folks please chill down a bit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:30:27 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 20, 2016, 11:27:19 am

"So you're saying there's not a world of difference between:"
"modern Islam is significantly more invasive in society and thus it has more antagonistic to it ideologies and heresies to combat. A matter of scale."

Wow, it's almost like I've said the exact same thing!

P.S. Please try to read past the first line, you're rapidly approaching the stereotypical-American-if-you-believe-Russian-propaganda level. I mean seriously do you even europe or are you just failing to pretend

The point I was making is that Islam has a lot of quotes to do with murdering and killing people who disagree with it. Trying to find this amount of passages in Buddhism or Christianity is literally impossible.

As an example, this is a quote to do with the killing of unbelievers who don't convert:

Quote

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah (disbelief / persecution) is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 11:35:08 am

This has long since been derailed right into the 'religion and spirituality' thread, maybe it should be moved there?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ghazkull on January 20, 2016, 11:36:45 am

OI both of you, leave the discussion for a few hours, calm down a few notches and come back. The thread is supposed to be friendly and polite EU News Thread not "people ripping out each others throats over semantics thread."

Plus otherwise it gets locked again, which i find annoying since i get most of the european news here, because you folsk dig up stuff from all sides.
So thanks for the news bits, please calm down a bit...and i think Yazidis are not Zoroastrians...weren't Yazidis the guys with the peacock demon who was Satan and was supposed to be good? Or am i mashing up several other faiths now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:38:52 am

Something more relevant to the thread: Facebook going to monitor and censor "hate speech" in Germany from now on. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-outlines-new-measures-to-combat-racist-and-xenophobic-content-1442242351)

I wonder what hate speech means in this particular case. I wonder if criticising Merkel is going to be counted as hatespeech. ::)

Quote from: Ghazkull on January 20, 2016, 11:36:45 am

OI both of you, leave the discussion for a few hours, calm down a few notches and come back. The thread is supposed to be friendly and polite EU News Thread not "people ripping out each others throats over semantics thread."

Plus otherwise it gets locked again, which i find annoying since i get most of the european news here, because you folsk dig up stuff from all sides.
So thanks for the news bits, please calm down a bit...and i think Yazidis are not Zoroastrians...weren't Yazidis the guys with the peacock demon who was Satan and was supposed to be good? Or am i mashing up several other faiths now.

Yazidis are a heresy of Zoroastrianism, as I understand it. :p

EDIT: Apparently I was wrong on this. It's more a related religion rather than a descendent of Zoroastrianism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2016, 11:39:43 am

Quote from: Ghazkull on January 20, 2016, 11:36:45 am

OI both of you, leave the discussion for a few hours, calm down a few notches and come back. The thread is supposed to be friendly and polite EU News Thread not "people ripping out each others throats over semantics thread."

Plus otherwise it gets locked again, which i find annoying since i get most of the european news here, because you folsk dig up stuff from all sides.
So thanks for the news bits, please calm down a bit...and i think Yazidis are not Zoroastrians...weren't Yazidis the guys with the peacock demon who was Satan and was supposed to be good? Or am i mashing up several other faiths now.

Peacock demon? That sounds more like a Chinese thing (or maybe Indian or Iranian). AFAIK, the Yazidis are a Islamic sect/branchoff (like how Christianity has it's various denominations) which many muslims view as being heretical.

edit: Some politicians have claimed that they were christians, so, I'm not sure on their religion other than that they are viewed by some muslims as being heretical infidels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 20, 2016, 11:57:51 am

Merkel is hardcore Stasi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on January 20, 2016, 11:59:34 am

The peacock angel is Melek Taus. Yazidism is sort of Islam's version of Christian Gnosticism. IIRC, they believe Allah created the world, then withdrew, leaving it in the care of Melek Taus. They consider themselves part of the Ummah, in the same way that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians. And just like those sects, everyone else is saying, "Uhh...no you're not."

And it's not just Muslims that brand them as devil-worshippers. Europeans also equated Melek Taus with Satan and happily looked the other way when the Ottomans would periodically crack down on them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:22:26 pm

I haven't found the post with the pew statistics, but I'm guessing it referred to this (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/#_ftn2).

I'll point out that you get similar things looking at Westerners:

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/25/57-republicans-dismantle-constitution-christianity-national-religion.html

57% of US Republicans want to abolish the constitution and implement theocratic rule. But we have to of course take that with a grain of salt. That's over 1 quarter of the entire country, and they've infiltrated every level of government, but I don't think we should be exactly freaking out about the imminent creation of a theocracy in the USA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 12:32:40 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

There's plenty of Christian bible verses about just war and the like, and taking up the sword, usually in defense of Christianity. Islam goes into a bit more detail on the subject, and is currently primarily based in rather poor, strife-torn regions, which leads unsurprisingly to violent interpretations.

What are you talking about m8 Islam goes into detail because the first interaction it had with outsiders was invasion, followed by another invasion, then a reconquest after rebellion

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

Plus the whole 'very traditional culture focused on one's history and family' which easily leads to resentment for things from several hundred years ago or more, and means any change introduced by outsiders (or insiders, for that matter) is liable to be viewed with extreme hostility.

Follow the Sunnah

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

As for settlement of America....Gold, God, and Glory. Spain had plenty of religious reasons riding alongside those socio-economic reasons. (and I would be disappointed if you said you thought Mid-Eastern Islam's current behavior/stance was purely because of the nature of the religion and had nothing to do with similar socio-economic stuff(and no, that doesn't justify it, which I always end up having to say))

I would be disappointed if you said so

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

Buddha was prince, Loud Whisper :P you sayin Buddha was more violent than Jesus? Do we need to have a peace-off here? Gandhi will wreck you shit scrub he's so peaceful get nukd m8

The Buddha could have been a great Emperor, a conqueror for the ages to remember - he gave up being a Prince the moment he became an ascetic. Sadly the Buddha never did get to lead armies, or kill people, or even have a crown :(

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 20, 2016, 11:01:33 am

Oh and Christianity is ideologically violent against other ideologies even if it isn't inherently physically violent. Missionaries and 'God is the One True God, and there is no God but He' is an act of war, ideologically speaking. Wouldn't have gotten so popular/stayed mostly the same, otherwise, really.

I don't defend Christianity because it's indefensible for being so weak, the core principle of Christianity is self-sacrifice, but Islam understands that if all the virtuous self-sacrifice you end up with a world where the virtuous are dead and the immoral are left behind to rule it. The meek do not inherit the Earth then; the strongest do, and if the strongest are immoral than immorality will be King. If someone is a threat to you there is no turning the other cheek; when the Byzantines and Persians threatened the Caliphate the Byzantines and Persians were crushed. Islam wouldn't have gotten so popular otherwise, and there's a reason why Christianity's birthplace is Muslim and shall soon be devoid of Christianity altogether. The future of Christianity is central Africa and China, European Christianity is very much too weak to fight the ideological wars it once waged upon itself, let alone the world.

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 11:54:36 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 11:38:52 am

Something more relevant to the thread: Facebook going to monitor and censor "hate speech" in Germany from now on. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-outlines-new-measures-to-combat-racist-and-xenophobic-content-1442242351)
I wonder what hate speech means in this particular case. I wonder if criticising Merkel is going to be counted as hatespeech. ::)

I wonder how much of this thread would have made it through the censors.
But yeah, censoring speech in Germany. On an entirely, entirely unrelated topic... didn't Merkel used to be an informant for the Stasi?

She gettin too checkbireki

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:42:07 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 12:30:32 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:22:26 pm

I haven't found the post with the pew statistics, but I'll point out that you get similar things looking at Westerners:

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/25/57-republicans-dismantle-constitution-christianity-national-religion.html

57% of US Republicans want to abolish the constitution and implement theocratic rule. But we have to of course take that with a grain of salt. That's over 1 quarter of the entire country, and they've infiltrated every level of government, but I don't think we should be exactly freaking out about the imminent creation of a theocracy in the USA.

I don't think 316 Republican primary voters is a very representative sample, to be honest.

By comparison, the PEW ones I linked that nullBolt is referring to involved over 38,000 face-to-face interviews in more than 80 languages and dialects.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/07/1428407/-Halfway-to-theocracy-44-percent-of-Republicans-want-to-make-Christianity-our-official-religion
Yup, it drops to 44% of republicans (and 28% of democrats) in a follow-up national poll the same organization did. But that's still more than some Muslim populations say they want sharia law. Here's the raw data in case you don't trust DailyKos:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/ReligionPollingResults.pdf

Interesting (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/#_ftn2) (pew), that 12% of turks want sharia, vs 28% of US Democrats wanting theocracy. Also, less Republicans (39%) oppose theocracy than support it (44%).

Erdogan isn't credible. He's the leader of by far the most liberal/secular muslim nation on the planet, yet he's pushing a radicalized us/them dichotomy (he really hates atheists) and wants to dismantle everything Attaturk did to create a modern nation. When he says all muslims are the same, he's actually trying to undermine the modernized muslim majority of his own country, and push them back into the "islamist" fold by force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 01:07:19 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:42:07 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 12:30:32 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 20, 2016, 12:22:26 pm

I haven't found the post with the pew statistics, but I'll point out that you get similar things looking at Westerners:
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/25/57-republicans-dismantle-constitution-christianity-national-religion.html
57% of US Republicans want to abolish the constitution and implement theocratic rule. But we have to of course take that with a grain of salt. That's over 1 quarter of the entire country, and they've infiltrated every level of government, but I don't think we should be exactly freaking out about the imminent creation of a theocracy in the USA.

I don't think 316 Republican primary voters is a very representative sample, to be honest.
By comparison, the PEW ones I linked that nullBolt is referring to involved over 38,000 face-to-face interviews in more than 80 languages and dialects.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/07/1428407/-Halfway-to-theocracy-44-percent-of-Republicans-want-to-make-Christianity-our-official-religion
Yup, it drops to 44% of republicans (and 28% of democrats) in a follow-up national poll the same organization did. But that's still more than some Muslim populations say they want sharia law. Here's the raw data in case you don't trust DailyKos:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/ReligionPollingResults.pdf

Why the hell would you trust DailyKos lol? They're completely high off of their ebin progresivatheist bernie sanders reblogs, they don't even know what the hell a theocracy looks like - having an official religion is not there, otherwise the entire world outside the Americas is a theocracy. I've found something even lower quality b8 than DailyMail.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/q4OmRAs.png)
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Versus your cuckservatives

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ucWCzxT.png)

FFS you have more commies who want to abolish FOR than cons, that's pathetic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 20, 2016, 02:30:10 pm

So, i took the data by Pew, extracted the number of people who wants Sharia in each country based on the polled percentage out of wikipedia's recorded muslim population in each country and formed a global average based on that.

Out of the polled data that represents countries with a total muslim population of 1,116,854,700, 763,390,497 muslims wants sharia which makes for 68.351%

If we apply this percentage to the rest of the world (1,600,000,000 - 1,116,854,700) we get an additional 330,234,644 muslims who wants sharia and in total, 1,093,629,095 muslims wants Sharia. Note that European muslims would probably lower the percentage, but their numbers pales in comparison to India's, Iran's and Saudi Arabia's Muslim population who would most probably raise it so the global average percentage is probably even higher than 68.351%

These figures are troubling, to say the least.

Messy table

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

country   % wants sharia   # muslim   # wants sharia
afghanistan   99   29,047,100   28,756,629
albania   12   2,601,000   312,120
azerbaijan   8   8,795,000   703,600
bangladesh   82   145,607,000   119,397,740
bosnia   15   1,564,000   234,600
cameron   53   3,598,000   1,906,940
chad   47   64,040,000   30,098,800
djibouti   82   853,000   699,460
dr congo   74   969,000   717,060
egypt   74   80,024,000   59,217,760
ethiopia   65   28,271,000   18,376,150
ghana   58   3,906,600   2,265,828
guinea bissau   47   705,000   331,350
indonesia   72   204,847,000   147,489,840
iraq   91   31,108,000   28,308,280
jordan   71   6,397,000   4,541,870
kazakhstan   10   8,887,000   888,700
kenya   63   2,868,000   1,806,840
kosovo   20   2,011,000   402,200
kyrgyzstan   35   4,927,000   1,724,450
lebanon   29   2,542,000   737,180
liberia   52   523,000   271,960
malaysia   86   17,139,000   14,739,540
mali   63   12,316,000   7,759,080
morocco   83   32,381,000   26,876,230
mozambique   64   5,349,000   3,423,360
niger   86   15,627,000   13,439,220
nigeria   71   75,728,000   53,766,880
pakistan   84   178,097,000   149,601,480
palestinian   89   4,298,000   3,825,220
russia   42   16,379,000   6,879,180
senegal   55   12,333,000   6,783,150
tajikistan   27   7,006,000   1,891,620
tanzania   37   13,450,000   4,976,500
thailand   77   3,952,000   3,043,040
tunisia   56   10,349,000   5,795,440
turkey   12   74,660,000   8,959,200
uganda   66   3,700,000   2,442,000
Total polled data   68.351   1,116,854,700   763,390,497
         
Rest of world   68.351   483,145,300   330,234,644
World Total   68.35181846    1,600,000,000    1,093,629,095

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 02:46:59 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on January 20, 2016, 02:30:10 pm

<snip>

Come on, guys, it's $currentYear! 31% means that they're basically friendly, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 02:56:52 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on January 20, 2016, 02:30:10 pm

So, i took the data by Pew, extracted the number of people who wants Sharia in each country based on the polled percentage out of wikipedia's recorded muslim population in each country and formed a global average based on that.

D:<

Quote from: Vilanat on January 20, 2016, 02:30:10 pm

Out of the polled data that represents countries with a total muslim population of 1,116,854,700, 763,390,497 muslims wants sharia which makes for 68.351%
If we apply this percentage to the rest of the world (1,600,000,000 - 1,116,854,700) we get an additional 330,234,644 muslims who wants sharia and in total, 1,093,629,095 muslims wants Sharia. Note that European muslims would probably lower the percentage, but their numbers pales in comparison to India's, Iran's and Saudi Arabia's Muslim population who would most probably raise it so the global average percentage is probably even higher than 68.351%
These figures are troubling, to say the least.

I will concur not conquer, but I will confer there are caveats and points to make

Points I must make later sadly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:16:19 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 03:13:42 pm

Though if that's the case, it's 40000 people to represent the opinions of over a billion. I can't imagine that they could do much of a local polling since 40000 people implies that it's more like 10 to 100 people per any particular region of a country. That's not particularly representative.

Dude, studies of 5,000 people are huge. Nevermind 40,000.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:18:59 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 03:18:29 pm

It's not just about numbers here.

Yes... Yes, it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:28:36 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 03:20:53 pm

No it isn't. I can poll 40000 people in Iran and call that the "general Muslim opinion" and anyone with half a brain would call me out on that bullshit. Opinions vastly differ not just between countries, but within them based on centers of population; i.e. cities tend to cater to more liberal opinions versus rural areas, etc. If we assume that the poll, based on what they've said, tried to be representative of every particular region of the countries that they were in, then we're talking 10-100 people per region at most.

They've not broken into it representative regions, though, they're representing the opinion of the country as a whole. Taking around a 1k sample from each country distributed across as many regions as possible is perfectly valid and acceptable as long as random choice is the choice.

But that doesn't matter because if it'd've been 1000 per region, you'd be complaining that it wasn't enough. Because it's not the amount that matters, it's the result of the numbers that you dislike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 20, 2016, 03:37:49 pm

Could you maybe take this discussion to the religion thread? Or the Science thread, since the debate seems to mostly involve statistical methods :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:38:20 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 03:29:43 pm

Here's a quote from the same study.

"At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing
for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for
example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their
religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of
Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are
possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –
think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have
differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

"The survey – which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages
with Muslims across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa – shows that Muslims tend to be
most comfortable with using sharia in the domestic sphere, to settle family or property
disputes. In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe
punishments, such as cutting off the hands of thieves or executing people who convert from
Islam to another faith. And even in the domestic sphere, Muslims differ widely on such
questions as whether polygamy, divorce and family planning are morally acceptable and
whether daughters should be able to receive the same inheritance as sons. "

And nullBolt, the reason I bring up distribution is that taking "random polling of opinions from across the country" is inherently biased; large cities tend to be more liberal in their views over more rural areas, but rural areas tend to take up more land, so geographical randomness doesn't work. Same goes for population. It'd be like trying to get a general opinion about what the US thinks by picking random people from across the country. It doesn't work if you just pick randomly amongst population numbers or geographical location.

Man, Pew is one of the best research centres. They undoubtedly have all the possible methodology problems you can think of completely covered, and a lot of the ones that you can't think of covered too.

My question is: What do these people think should happen when a Muslim and a non-Muslim get into a dispute? Should Sharia law be the one applied?

You also seemed to miss this graph which pretty much directly contradicts what you're saying:

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-overview-9.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 03:51:43 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 03:40:48 pm

<snip>

So Muslim people in Muslim countries with Muslim laws are saying that other people are free to practice their faith. That doesn't ring hollow to you at all?

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 03:46:14 pm

'because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries – think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims.'

'Many other countries' is rather poor wording for a document like this that's focused on statistics, sadly.

Yes, only 49% of the 10 million NAME 'refugees' currently on their way to Europe who support Sharia are, statistically, going to believe that Sharia law should apply to non-Muslims as well. For whatever reason, this percentage is not a huge comfort to me.

And yeah, there are some 'good' statistics in the report. like those about 'Freedom to Practice Their Faith' (though frankly, that seems odd to me, given how apostates are treated by Islam. Check out Reddit's ex-Muslim community, listen to their stories). That's what makes it a realistic survey rather than a propaganda piece. But that doesn't contradict what nullBolt said, or ameliorate the very real concerns that statistics like those in his latest post raise. When you take a population where 93% of them believes homosexuality is wrong, and drop it in a culture where homosexuality is widely accepted and openly practiced, you're going to have problems.

EDIT: And everyone, if you're going to dump huge graphics in the thread, at least spoiler it.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 04:57:46 pm

I am pretty sure the interpretation of what "sharia" is differs enormously within the Moslim community.

I think there is a rather big difference between what these people think of as sharia and the "STONE ALL GAYS AND ATHEISTS TO DEATH" sharia that is is often presented to us.


Not that I don't detest religious law though. The middle east has some SERIOUS cultural issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:03:51 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 04:57:46 pm

I am pretty sure the interpretation of what "sharia" is differs enormously within the Moslim community.

I think there is a rather big difference between what these people think of as sharia and the "STONE ALL GAYS AND ATHEISTS TO DEATH" sharia that is is often presented to us.

Not that I don't detest religious law though. The middle east has some SERIOUS cultural issues.

Most Muslim theologians would argue that there is only one Sharia.

This is moderate Islam. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU)

Quote

When Muslim organizations invite Shaykhs who speak openly about the values of Islam, the Islamophobic western media starts murdering the character of that organization and the invited speaker. The question these Islamophobic journalists need to reflect upon is; are these so called ''radical'' views that they criticize endorsed only by these few individuals being invited around the globe, or does the common Muslims believe in them. If the common Muslims believe in these values that means that more or less all Muslims are radical and that Islam is a radical religion. Since this is not the case, as Islam is a peaceful religion and so are the masses of common Muslims, these Shaykhs cannot be radical. Rather it is Islamophobia from the ignorant western media who is more concerned about making money by alienating Islam by presenting Muslims in this way. Islam Net, an organization in Norway, invited 9 speakers to Peace Conference Scandinavia 2013. These speakers would most likely be labelled as ''extremists'' if the media were to write about the conference. But how come this conference was the largest Islamic Scandinavian International event that has taken place in Norway with about 4000 people attending? Were the majority of those who attended in opposition to what the speakers were preaching? If so, how come they paid to enter? Let's forget about that for a moment, let's imagine that we don't really knew what all these people thought about for example segregation of men and women, or stoning to death of those who commit adultery. The Chairman of Islam Net, Fahad Ullah Qureshi asked the audience, and the answer was clear. The attendees were common Sunni Muslims. They did not consider themselves as radicals or extremists. They believed that segregation was the right thing to do, both men and women agreed upon this. They even supported stoning or whatever punishment Islam or prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) commanded for adultery or any other crime. They even believed that these practises should be implemented around the world. Now what does that tell us? Either all Muslims and Islam is radical, or the media is Islamophobic and racist in their presentation of Islam. Islam is not radical, nor is Muslims in general radical. That means that the media is the reason for the hatred against Muslims, which is spreading among the non-Muslims in western countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:35:58 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:03:51 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 04:57:46 pm

I am pretty sure the interpretation of what "sharia" is differs enormously within the Moslim community.

I think there is a rather big difference between what these people think of as sharia and the "STONE ALL GAYS AND ATHEISTS TO DEATH" sharia that is is often presented to us.

Not that I don't detest religious law though. The middle east has some SERIOUS cultural issues.

Most Muslim theologians would argue that there is only one Sharia.

This is moderate Islam. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU)

Quote

...

They can argue all they want, but Islam is anything but unified.

But the real problem is that labelling Islam as a whole as a radical religion will be of no use whatsoever.

If you go to a muslim and say "you are a radical because you are a muslim and muslims belief people should be stoned to death" they will just go "wtf I don't belief that" so what's the point?

there is just very little to gain from that stream of thought.

There ARE serious problems in most Islamic cultures, but are these problems inherent to "Islam"?

Would someone looking at the past say segregation is inherent to Christianity? Or inquisition, holy wars and slavery?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:47:04 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:35:58 pm

They can argue all they want, but Islam is anything but unified.

But the real problem is that labelling Islam as a whole as a radical religion will be of no use whatsoever.

If you go to a muslim and say "you are a radical because you are a muslim and muslims belief people should be stoned to death" they will just go "wtf I don't belief that" so what's the point?

there is just very little to gain from that stream of thought.

There ARE serious problems in most Islamic cultures, but are these problems inherent to "Islam"?

Would someone looking at the past say segregation is inherent to Christianity? Or inquisition, holy wars and slavery?

Have you been following the past few pages?

Look at the Pew research stuff, seriously. 90% believe that gays is a moral wrong and almost that many believe Sharia law should be the only law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 05:47:15 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:35:58 pm

There ARE serious problems in most Islamic cultures, but are these problems inherent to "Islam"?

Would someone looking at the past say segregation is inherent to Christianity? Or inquisition, holy wars and slavery?

#NOTALLPOPEURBANS #you'lldieformysins #DEUSVULT #infidelswelcome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:54:18 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 05:38:22 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:03:51 pm

That means that the media is the reason for the hatred against Muslims, which is spreading among the non-Muslims in western countries.

I watched a bit of the video and had to stop. I am so sick of hearing 'Why are they always focusing on Islam?' from these sorts of people.

Perhaps, just perhaps, people focus on Islam because the vast majority of the security concerns we have now are about Islamic terrorism? When my partner goes to work, I don't worry about her getting killed by a Sikh on a rampage or a Jewish mass shooter, but I do worry about the possibility of a Muslim doing a repeat of the 7/7 attacks and blowing themselves up on public transportation.

And Parliament is actually seriously debating whether we should ban Donald Trump or not, while people like these London protesters here (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=635_1453305316), burning the flags of America and Israel, holding up banners saying 'Democracy and freedom on deathrow - Islam is coming', 'The followers of Muhammad will conquer America' and 'USA you will pay. The Ummah of Muhammad is on its way', and literally chanting 'Jihad, jihad, jihad', are all left to carry on preaching hate and even in many cases (e.g Anjem Choudary) claiming state welfare benefits. Meanwhile a 78 year old man is put on trial for saying that 'Islam is satanic.' It's ridiculous. It boggles the mind.

I can't fathom the sort of twisted thought process you could go through to believe that Donald Trump should be banned while people openly supporting ISIS and calling for the end of Western democracy and freedom should stay. But it's in full display here, not just among radicals and provocateurs, but amongst our leaders and representatives. And it terrifies me.

The people in that video are literally protesting for the establishment of a totalitarian state. Which is one of the problems: there is a totalitarian movement within Islam, recently they are mostly called Islamists it seems.

Personally I think anyone advocating totalitarian ideas should be considered a persona non grata and either deported or face trial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 20, 2016, 06:00:03 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:54:18 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 05:38:22 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:03:51 pm

That means that the media is the reason for the hatred against Muslims, which is spreading among the non-Muslims in western countries.

I watched a bit of the video and had to stop. I am so sick of hearing 'Why are they always focusing on Islam?' from these sorts of people.

Perhaps, just perhaps, people focus on Islam because the vast majority of the security concerns we have now are about Islamic terrorism? When my partner goes to work, I don't worry about her getting killed by a Sikh on a rampage or a Jewish mass shooter, but I do worry about the possibility of a Muslim doing a repeat of the 7/7 attacks and blowing themselves up on public transportation.

And Parliament is actually seriously debating whether we should ban Donald Trump or not, while people like these London protesters here (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=635_1453305316), burning the flags of America and Israel, holding up banners saying 'Democracy and freedom on deathrow - Islam is coming', 'The followers of Muhammad will conquer America' and 'USA you will pay. The Ummah of Muhammad is on its way', and literally chanting 'Jihad, jihad, jihad', are all left to carry on preaching hate and even in many cases (e.g Anjem Choudary) claiming state welfare benefits. Meanwhile a 78 year old man is put on trial for saying that 'Islam is satanic.' It's ridiculous. It boggles the mind.

I can't fathom the sort of twisted thought process you could go through to believe that Donald Trump should be banned while people openly supporting ISIS and calling for the end of Western democracy and freedom should stay. But it's in full display here, not just among radicals and provocateurs, but amongst our leaders and representatives. And it terrifies me.

The people in that video are literally protesting for the establishment of a totalitarian state. Which is one of the problems: there is a totalitarian movement within Islam, recently they are mostly called Islamists it seems.

Personally I think anyone advocating totalitarian ideas should be considered a persona non grata and either deported or face trial.

And here we run into the Liberal Crime Squad problem. "Suppressing dissenting opinions is bad, and we should silence anyone who disagrees!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:01:19 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 20, 2016, 05:47:04 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:35:58 pm

They can argue all they want, but Islam is anything but unified.

But the real problem is that labelling Islam as a whole as a radical religion will be of no use whatsoever.

If you go to a muslim and say "you are a radical because you are a muslim and muslims belief people should be stoned to death" they will just go "wtf I don't belief that" so what's the point?

there is just very little to gain from that stream of thought.

There ARE serious problems in most Islamic cultures, but are these problems inherent to "Islam"?

Would someone looking at the past say segregation is inherent to Christianity? Or inquisition, holy wars and slavery?

Have you been following the past few pages?

Look at the Pew research stuff, seriously. 90% believe that gays is a moral wrong and almost that many believe Sharia law should be the only law.

Sometimes I seriously have the feeling those parts of the world just missed around 100 years of cultural devolpment

Then again, what do we do with the sizeable portion of Christians who believe gays are morally wrong?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:02:09 pm

Please put them in spoilers, this kills the 50ppp

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:03:59 pm

Quote from: Baffler on January 20, 2016, 06:00:03 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 05:54:18 pm

The people in that video are literally protesting for the establishment of a totalitarian state. Which is one of the problems: there is a totalitarian movement within Islam, recently they are mostly called Islamists it seems.

Personally I think anyone advocating totalitarian ideas should be considered a persona non grata and either deported or face trial.

And here we run into the Liberal Crime Squad problem. "Suppressing dissenting opinions is bad, and we should silence anyone who disagrees!"

Advocating totalitarianism may very well fall within the current legal definition of hate speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:05:54 pm

You sound quite totalitarian right now, will you deport yourself? This is a nebulous power ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 20, 2016, 06:08:39 pm

Quote from: Baffler on January 20, 2016, 06:00:03 pm

And here we run into the Liberal Crime Squad problem. "Suppressing dissenting opinions is bad, and we should silence anyone who disagrees!"

I agree, we should round up all the people who say things like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:10:55 pm

Seriously put them in spoilers I'm dying

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:12:03 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:05:54 pm

You sound quite totalitarian right now, will you deport yourself? This is a nebulous power ;)

though brought as a joke, this could not be further from the truth.

Or system of freedom was never designed to deal with these kinds of radicals.

Persecution for hatespeech is a compromise and in this instance an acceptable option.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:15:58 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:12:03 pm

dest
though brought as a joke, this could not be further from the truth.
Or system of freedom was never designed to deal with these kinds of radicals.
Persecution for hatespeech is a compromise and in this instance an acceptable option.

Pft, Westminster's had religious terrorists trying to blow up parliament since Guy Fawkes, and if you look at persecution for hatespeech, those laws were used to silence everyone who criticized the multicultural movement, heck the first MP who tried bringing up the Pakistani rape gangs got done in for hate speech lol. I bet you a flagon of tonic water that if such a law got through, cheeky clerics would be off scotch free and the cultural Swedes would have a field day destroying their cuckservatives xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 20, 2016, 06:20:09 pm

Is there a term for betting alongside rather than against somebody? Because I reckon LW is right. The media and people with cultural influence wouldn't dare appear to lift a finger against anything close to Islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:28:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:15:58 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:12:03 pm

dest
though brought as a joke, this could not be further from the truth.
Or system of freedom was never designed to deal with these kinds of radicals.
Persecution for hatespeech is a compromise and in this instance an acceptable option.

Pft, Westminster's had religious terrorists trying to blow up parliament since Guy Fawkes, and if you look at persecution for hatespeech, those laws were used to silence everyone who criticized the multicultural movement, heck the first MP who tried bringing up the Pakistani rape gangs got done in for hate speech lol. I bet you a flagon of tonic water that if such a law got through, cheeky clerics would be off scotch free and the cultural Swedes would have a field day destroying their cuckservatives xD

I blame shitty wording of such laws. Insulting people should definitely never fall under any legal definition of hate speech.

Legal definitions of hate speech should be completely restricted to things such as:
"kill/destroy all group x"
"conquer/dominate the world"

or other statements directly advocating committing certain crimes.

Also expressing support for states that are both totalitarian, express the desire to conquer others AND are labelled as our enemy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 06:34:10 pm

Hey now, world domination is perfectly acceptable talk to have over a baguette and Spanish coffee

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 06:40:46 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 06:38:55 pm

Also, deporting only works if they have citizenship in some other country.

I think this might be surprisingly often the case for this particular group of islamists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 07:19:07 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 06:38:55 pm

Also, deporting only works if they have citizenship in some other country.

Not that I know of, if you have done away with your documents and don't tell authorities where you're from then they try to work out where you're from themselves and deport you there (or failing that, just deport you to the last place you were)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 08:21:44 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:02:27 pm

Dutch police have been visiting citizens tweeting negatively about the refugee crisis, telling them to 'mind their tweets' (http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/01/20/u-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392).

I want off Mr Orwell's wild ride.

Man that is concerning. And once again I am wondering what the hell they were smoking when they thought that would be a good idea.

Also from that article apparently saying "Islam is a backward religion" is fine, but saying "Moslims are not well in their head and should be re-educated" is considered hatespeech.

A very good example about how hatespeech laws are indeed abused.

Saying people are retarded is an insult, it should never be considered hatespeech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 08:22:23 pm

Ban this sick filth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2016, 08:23:53 pm

Well we can now indeed say The Netherlands is going to shit.

Both from the left and the right and the left and I feel caught in the middle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 08:31:06 pm

Ban the middle filfth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 20, 2016, 10:12:39 pm

Behold Eurabia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 21, 2016, 12:40:12 am

The American disease is spreading.

Soon, you too shall be patriotic!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 21, 2016, 12:53:11 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 07:19:07 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 20, 2016, 06:38:55 pm

Also, deporting only works if they have citizenship in some other country.

Not that I know of, if you have done away with your documents and don't tell authorities where you're from then they try to work out where you're from themselves and deport you there (or failing that, just deport you to the last place you were)

What makes you think deporting someone to the last place they were works? How exactly do you deport someone to a place that refuses to take them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 03:09:12 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:02:27 pm

Dutch police have been visiting citizens tweeting negatively about the refugee crisis, telling them to 'mind their tweets' (http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/01/20/u-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392).

I want off Mr Orwell's wild ride.

What? Seriously WHAT?? W.H.A.T? Tell me this is a fake

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on January 21, 2016, 04:27:09 am

I'm going to wait on martinuzz to confirm that one, but if it's true... What the fuck?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 04:45:36 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 20, 2016, 08:02:27 pm

Dutch police have been visiting citizens tweeting negatively about the refugee crisis, telling them to 'mind their tweets' (http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/01/20/u-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392).

I want off Mr Orwell's wild ride.

Quote from: Sheb on January 21, 2016, 04:27:09 am

I'm going to wait on martinuzz to confirm that one, but if it's true... What the fuck?

Google Translate (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrc.nl%2Fnext%2F2016%2F01%2F20%2Fu-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392&edit-text)

Obviously not amazing, but you can get the right idea. Some subtlety may be lost, though.

Flicking through, it focuses on a single guy but references other events that have happened in the past few weeks that are roughly the same.

Bits that stand out to me:

Quote

"You tweet a lot," said the agents according Jongeneel when they were seated in his office. "We have orders to ask you to watch your tone. Your tweets may seem seditious. "

Seditious, guys. Fucking seditious.

Quote

Sliedrecht Tuesday was a meeting about a refugee center in the region. In the run-up to it placed Jongeneel posted a few tweets. This example: "The College of #Sliedrecht comes with a proposal to deal with over the next two years 250 refugees. What a bad idea! #KominVerzet "Earlier he also wrote:" This let us not happen !? "

If that's really what he said and he got a warning off the police, this a god damn joke. I should note "Kom in Verzet" seems to mean "Come in Resistance" and it seems a phrase against erasure of Dutch heritage?

Quote

"It is a subtle boundary that can easily exceed" said law professor Nico Kwakman, affiliated with the University of Groningen. "You may say, 'I think Islam an outdated religion." That is an opinion. But if you go on to say: "Muslims are not good and should be re-educated", exceed you make a boundary "It also depends on who the remark when..

If that's the boundary compared to the above...

Quote

"The policeman is seen as someone who detects crime, but also to prevent crime, to advise citizens and help," said criminal justice expert Kwakman. That's what the police would do in cases like this, he thinks. "But it has been, I think, wrong estimate what it means for the individual." It would have been wiser as Kwakman to send another official, one without uniform off on those people. "If a policeman comes to tell you that what you do is not quite right, you feel slighted and criminalized."

TL;DR: We'll send plain clothes and threaten to break his legs next time if he posts his seditious speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 21, 2016, 04:57:31 am

E: I accidentally a post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 21, 2016, 05:01:28 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 04:45:36 am

Quote

"The policeman is seen as someone who detects crime, but also to prevent crime, to advise citizens and help," said criminal justice expert Kwakman. That's what the police would do in cases like this, he thinks. "But it has been, I think, wrong estimate what it means for the individual." It would have been wiser as Kwakman to send another official, one without uniform off on those people. "If a policeman comes to tell you that what you do is not quite right, you feel slighted and criminalized."

TL;DR: We'll send plain clothes and threaten to break his legs next time if he posts his seditious speech.

What? How did you get a 'next time' out of that? And a threat? It's literally just a guy saying "Yeah, not a fan of sending uniformed police to tell people their Twitter is out of hand. It'd be better to give them a warning before doing that." Like a speeding ticket in the post or something, except less so.

Also, please don't trust Google Translate so completely. "Opruiend" means "inflammatory" as much or more than "seditious".

And I don't know much about Dutch politics, but 'Kom in Verzet' also means 'come in, opposition' - which I'd read as opposition party, but eh.

Yeah, it looks pretty terrible, but not as terrible as GT makes it look.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 05:11:29 am

Quote from: Arx on January 21, 2016, 05:01:28 am

What? How did you get a 'next time' out of that? And a threat? It's literally just a guy saying "Yeah, not a fan of sending uniformed police to tell people their Twitter is out of hand. It'd be better to give them a warning before doing that." Like a speeding ticket in the post or something, except less so.

Also, please don't trust Google Translate so completely. "Opruiend" means "inflammatory" as much or more than "seditious".

And I don't know much about Dutch politics, but 'Kom in Verzet' also means 'come in, opposition' - which I'd read as opposition party, but eh.

Yeah, it looks pretty terrible, but not as terrible as GT makes it look.

Ah, nevermind, that's another individual talking about it, not a member of the police. I was wrong on that count.

If his speech is as mild as he's making it out to be, even calling it inflammatory is horribly, horribly wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 06:01:02 am

The Swedish media just admitted to censoring stories on migrant crime inconvenient to the government platform for the past five years.

Archive (https://archive.is/19k3Q)
Google Translate (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?u=https://archive.is/19k3Q)
Wikileaks talking about it on Twitter (https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/688999781193117696)

(http://i.imgur.com/VKP02CR.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 06:59:46 am

Sweden YES into the kuk shed

Quote from: wobbly on January 21, 2016, 12:53:11 am

What makes you think deporting someone to the last place they were works?

Helps if you're an island, but yeah you're right you should deport them even further afield, it's why you investigate where they're from first

Quote from: wobbly on January 21, 2016, 12:53:11 am

How exactly do you deport someone to a place that refuses to take them?

By putting them on a flight home

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 21, 2016, 09:51:09 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 09:46:58 am

Quote from: Arx on January 21, 2016, 05:01:28 am

What? How did you get a 'next time' out of that? And a threat? It's literally just a guy saying "Yeah, not a fan of sending uniformed police to tell people their Twitter is out of hand. It'd be better to give them a warning before doing that." Like a speeding ticket in the post or something, except less so.

Why the hell should people get a warning from the state for having unpopular opinions? Are we China now?

And before you try to draw a comparison to people talking about deporting those London protesters in the video from the last page - there's a world of distance between people - many of whom aren't even citizens themselves - saying 'ISIS, please come and destroy Western culture, kill the infidels, Islam will dominate the world', and people saying 'No more refugees!'.

I wasn't trying to make an argument. I was just providing a slightly better translation and pointing out the immediate flaws, because I speak a bit of Dutch and don't have to rely totally on Google Translate.

Like I said, "Yeah, it looks pretty terrible, but not as terrible as GT makes it look." It looks terrible. It is terrible. But not that terrible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 09:56:39 am

Immigration has quickly became the favourite method of ensuring economic disparity in the first world.

The weirdest thing is that keeping unemployment figures up makes the rich rich as fuck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 10:37:47 am

I get a feeling it is time to divert this topic from the seemingly never-ending immigration debate by posting economical article in a language almost no one understands. (https://www.jungewelt.de/2016/01-20/037.php) There are some interesting words about product "competitiveness", or rather, lack of it - that much I can derive from Google Translation, but the particular specifics are unclear.

hopefully the local germans will deliver

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 10:57:26 am

Quote from: wiki

junge Welt (meaning "Young World" in English) is a German daily newspaper published in Berlin. The jW describes itself as a left and Marxist newspaper. German authorities categorize it as a far-left medium with intentions hostile to the constitutional order

Good source. Has to be very neutral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:00:30 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 10:37:47 am

I get a feeling it is time to divert this topic from the seemingly never-ending immigration debate by posting economical article in a language almost no one understands. (https://www.jungewelt.de/2016/01-20/037.php) There are some interesting words about product "competitiveness", or rather, lack of it - that much I can derive from Google Translation, but the particular specifics are unclear.

hopefully the local germans will deliver

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 10:57:26 am

Quote from: wiki

junge Welt (meaning "Young World" in English) is a German daily newspaper published in Berlin. The jW describes itself as a left and Marxist newspaper. German authorities categorize it as a far-left medium with intentions hostile to the constitutional order

Good source. Has to be very neutral.

hue

Immigration is the big debate now, Sergarr. That's the reality of it for every European.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:15:34 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 10:57:26 am

Quote from: wiki

junge Welt (meaning "Young World" in English) is a German daily newspaper published in Berlin. The jW describes itself as a left and Marxist newspaper. German authorities categorize it as a far-left medium with intentions hostile to the constitutional order

Good source. Has to be very neutral.

thought so

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:00:30 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 10:37:47 am

I get a feeling it is time to divert this topic from the seemingly never-ending immigration debate by posting economical article in a language almost no one understands. (https://www.jungewelt.de/2016/01-20/037.php) There are some interesting words about product "competitiveness", or rather, lack of it - that much I can derive from Google Translation, but the particular specifics are unclear.

hopefully the local germans will deliver

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 10:57:26 am

Quote from: wiki

junge Welt (meaning "Young World" in English) is a German daily newspaper published in Berlin. The jW describes itself as a left and Marxist newspaper. German authorities categorize it as a far-left medium with intentions hostile to the constitutional order

Good source. Has to be very neutral.

hue

Immigration is the big debate now, Sergarr. That's the reality of it for every European.

Wait, does that mean that Ukrainians are not Europeans, since I don't think I've ever heard them debating immigration?

hue

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:17:11 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:15:34 am

Wait, does that mean that Ukrainians are not Europeans, since I don't think I've ever heard them debating immigration?

hue

They've got a big problem with Russians trying to immigrate into Ukraine. ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 21, 2016, 11:23:59 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:17:11 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:15:34 am

Wait, does that mean that Ukrainians are not Europeans, since I don't think I've ever heard them debating immigration?

hue

They've got a big problem with Russians trying to immigrate into Ukraine. ;)

Oddly enough there are also a lot of Ukrainians trying to immigrate to Russia, only they seem to want to take the land they live on along with them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:57 am

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/01/15/Russia-s-Military-Buildup-Continues-Big-New-Fighter-Jet-Order) international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 11:38:28 am

BTW, speaking of Russia, are there any interest in Litvinenko case in EU media?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:40:35 am

Wikipedia editors are trying to delete the "Taharrush gamea" page and it's turned into a shit storm on the Talk page. All because of the New Year's Eve stuff in Cologne.

Page link. (https://archive.is/u8YOF)
Talk page link. (https://archive.is/UMjd1)

Gonna post this in it's own topic, actually.

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:57 am

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/01/15/Russia-s-Military-Buildup-Continues-Big-New-Fighter-Jet-Order) international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

Why are you so interested in switching topic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 11:46:02 am

Yeah, we in the US have our own (though greatly different and at the same time, the same) issues with illegal immigration and we aren't afraid to discuss it.

It's just that the politicians can't come to an agreement and so, things go nowhere. Of course though, the situation in Europe is FAR more urgent than it is here in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 11:47:51 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 21, 2016, 11:38:28 am

BTW, speaking of Russia, are there any interest in Litvinenko case in EU media?

It's been talked about here in the US news that Putin himself very likely approved it, but good luck actually proving that he did so.

edit: Half expected there to be posts between this one and the previous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 21, 2016, 11:48:00 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 11:32:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:57 am

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/01/15/Russia-s-Military-Buildup-Continues-Big-New-Fighter-Jet-Order) international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's only a matter of time before mainland European governments collapse and fascists/nationalists take over.  Whether they deport or wholesale kill their muslim populations is still up in the air.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 11:32:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:57 am

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/01/15/Russia-s-Military-Buildup-Continues-Big-New-Fighter-Jet-Order) international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 11:50:37 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 11:32:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:57 am

okay then

attempt №2 at switching topic: Russia is continuing to build up military forces by ordering up some 50 new Su-35S Super Duper Flankers, undoubtedly planning to use them to conquer up some Yurop clay via insertion of "little green 4.5 gen fighters", (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/01/15/Russia-s-Military-Buildup-Continues-Big-New-Fighter-Jet-Order) international public alarmed. Also Putin reported flexing his muscles, per witnesses reports, who have instantly converted into Orthodoxal Homosexualism upon such magnificent sight (this part may or may not be actually true).

It's the EU-related news thread. The biggest issue, by far, that the EU is facing at the moment is this refugee crisis. The Dutch Prime Minister has said it has 6-8 weeks to save itself before collapse. The French PM has said much the same thing.

I understand that it makes some people uncomfortable, because they've been told all their lives that any anti-immigration sentiment is racist, but respectfully, I'd say if such discussion makes you uncomfortable, don't participate. Because there are a lot of us who think it is very relevant, and very important to discuss.

I mean sure there's a place to discuss Russia's armed forces too (though I wouldn't really say it's EU-related news), but for now, this is the big news of the moment.

EDIT: Although honestly, in my personal opinion, I think it's even more important to participate if such discussion does make you feel uncomfortable. We don't deal with unpleasant realities by hiding away from them, we have to meet them head on.

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

Welcome to the immigration debate here in the US..... It's been either pro-amnesty or anti-amnesty, even what Trump is saying isn't new either.

Also, sorry for interjecting US politics in here, but hey, it's the same kind of discussion that we have been having for some time now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:55:52 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 11:44:37 am

I'd seen that (it was actually drawn to my attention on the Gamergate subreddit, heh. They're quite good for finding out about this kind of thing). Wikipedia has a real problem with this kind of thing, unfortunately. Very politicized by certain editors/admins, and little to no real effort to be neutral.

Come join me, young Padawan. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155708.0)

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

You may find it boring, others do not. Again, instead of trying to change the topic, you should either engage or leave.

Also, there are a huge number of solutions. It's just that people are afraid of doing them because of cultural squeamishness.

Like, it's okay to ruin a man's life by making wild accusations against him but it's not okay for him to die in a gladiatorial arena? I do not grasp my culture any more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 12:06:08 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 12:01:38 pm

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

"We found your forum posting. It could be viewed as seditious. Stop before we sedite you."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 12:11:00 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:55:52 am

You may find it boring, others do not. Again, instead of trying to change the topic, you should either engage or leave.

well whatever

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 11:55:52 am

Also, there are a huge number of solutions. It's just that people are afraid of doing them because of cultural squeamishness.

Like, it's okay to ruin a man's life by making wild accusations against him but it's not okay for him to die in a gladiatorial arena? I do not grasp my culture any more.

Uhhhhh, are you proposing sticking migrants into giant coliseums and granting the right of freedom to be deported back to Africa/Middle East to ones that emerge victorious in a giant free-for-all?

That certainly sounds entertaining.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 21, 2016, 12:11:57 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 12:06:08 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 12:01:38 pm

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

"We found your forum posting. It could be viewed as seditious. Stop before we sedite you."

Once again "opruiend" means inflammatory, not seditious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 21, 2016, 12:12:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 21, 2016, 04:27:09 am

I'm going to wait on martinuzz to confirm that one, but if it's true... What the fuck?

Sadly, I cannot deny that. It is in the light though, of riots that took place the day before, including the throwing of fireworks and stones at the police, as well as the public display of dead pig carcasses hanging in trees at a intended refugee center location, so police is a bit edgy right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 12:19:03 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started

What abouts me

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh.

I literally cant even likwowo

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem.

Since 2013 I've been doing this ;-;
You want to talk about Swiss with me? :P

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 12:01:38 pm

Oh god, let's not start using the word 'solution'. All it takes is LW to show up and make one ill-judged shitpost and we'll all have the Dutch police knocking on our door and sending us to the Tolerance Camps.

Heil mein merkelfurher, create the ultimate blanda up to conquer Yurop for Euromoney again

NO DUTCH POLIS NO IT WAS BANTER

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 12:25:13 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 12:19:03 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started

What abouts me

your posts don't contain mere "arguments"

it's all banter all the way down

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 12:19:03 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh.

I literally cant even likwowo

yeah me too

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 12:19:03 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem.

Since 2013 I've been doing this ;-;
You want to talk about Swiss with me? :P

uh
I don't remember you offering any "solutions". If there were, they've been hopelessly lost inside the overwhelming growth mass of sheer unadulterated banter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 12:34:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 12:01:38 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 11:46:02 am

Yeah, we in the US have our own (though greatly different and at the same time, the same) issues

That should sound silly, but I do know exactly what you mean. The issue with certain groups having a vested interest in allowing in large numbers of cheap, undemanding labour seems something of a universal theme on both sides of the Atlantic.

Though as you say, there are different ones as well. I don't claim any authority on this, but I have heard that immigrants largely vote in favour of the Democrats, so the Democrats are often in favour of letting more in to therefore accrue more votes, whereas the Republicans are often against it for the same/opposite reason. Is that the case?

That's generally true, yeah, but not the entire story. As you've probably noticed, the Republicans in general have been pretty hostile (alienating even) to immigrants and minority groups, which drives those voting blocs towards the Democrats.

Quote

It's good to hear you aren't afraid of discussing it - although, from what very little I'd heard, a lot of the Republican candidates' immigration 'talking points' in the primary debates were basically 'Let's actually apply the laws', or 'Let's deport the illegal immigrants'. You mention pro-amnesty or anti-amnesty, yourself. That personally doesn't seem very radical to me. Would it be acceptable for say, an anti-amnesty politician to start talking about dramatically lowering the legal amount of migrants, or raising entry requirements, or would that be deemed very radical?

The whole amnesty thing may not seem radical, but it's a major point of contention between the Republicans and Democrats (guess which one is anti-amnesty). As for an anti-amnesty politician saying about dramatically lowering the legal amount of migrants or raising entry requirements, that sounds like it would be a Republican position.

The thing is that it's not legal immigration that is the big deal here (in the US), it's dealing with the illegal immigrants and fixing the broken immigration system which makes it harder to immigrate legally than it does illegally. Which both sides admit is a problem, but can't agree on how to fix, so, things get deadlocked and thus hardly anything gets done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 12:41:36 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 12:11:00 pm

Uhhhhh, are you proposing sticking migrants into giant coliseums and granting the right of freedom to be deported back to Africa/Middle East to ones that emerge victorious in a giant free-for-all?

That certainly sounds entertaining.

I was actually suggesting we should make whoever wins the head of the UN Council for Human Rights.

They'd still do a better job than the SA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 21, 2016, 12:47:17 pm

Do note that in Dutch law, it is a criminal offense to incite violent acts, or incite people to break the law (this does not include hatespeech, hatespeech is protected under freedom of speech law). It's legally okay to say "I fucking hate niggers", or "all muslims are rapist pigdogs!", but it's a crime to say "go kill niggers, folks!, or "hang dead pigs from trees!  (which is considered an environmental offense btw)".
Now in basis, it is illegal for police and justice department to monitor random online conversations. However, if someone is suspected of breaking the law, the DA can give clearance for targeted monitoring. Which I believe is how privacy intrusion by police and justice forces works in most of our western states. It might sound 1984, but it's not that black and white.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 01:04:57 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 21, 2016, 12:50:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 21, 2016, 12:34:37 pm

The whole amnesty thing may not seem radical, but it's a major point of contention between the Republicans and Democrats (guess which one is anti-amnesty). As for an anti-amnesty politician saying about dramatically lowering the legal amount of migrants or raising entry requirements, that sounds like it would be a Republican position.

The thing is that it's not legal immigration that is the big deal here (in the US), it's dealing with the illegal immigrants and fixing the broken immigration system which makes it harder to immigrate legally than it does illegally. Which both sides admit is a problem, but can't agree on how to fix, so, things get deadlocked and thus hardly anything gets done.

That's interesting (though I'll make this my last post on the topic to avoid derailing).

U.S. politics can be a bit difficult for me (and I'd assume a lot of other Europeans) to get their heads around, because it appears to be more... well, the word we use here is tribalism, but we don't mean to imply the primitive connotations that word has. Rather just that it appears in many cases less about the issues themselves and more about the sides, or parties. Like that if a Republican made a proposal, and in an near-identical alternative universe a Democrat made the same exact proposal, the people supporting the two proposals would be wildly different. People appear to have become very entrenched into two different camps, and seem to have created a big 'us vs them' situation.

Which is often a problem everywhere, of course, but from our perspective it seems to be more of a thing in America.

That's the political polarization and partianship you're seeing, which is very high right now and is making us (well, some of us anyway) wish we had more than two parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 12:25:13 pm

uh
I don't remember you offering any "solutions". If there were, they've been hopelessly lost inside the overwhelming growth mass of sheer unadulterated banter.

So many in moments of clarity, I tried to warn you m8s you had to act whilst it was still in your power to do so

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ge1c5Do.png)

We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and it is bleeding to death

WHY DID YOU BELIEVE THEM

THE FUTURE IS SO BRIGHT I DON'T NEED EYES TO SEE IT

Spoiler: Serious reply spoilered because wall of text (click to show/hide)

In all seriousness though the solutions were always very small and very simple, I never made grandiose spectacular plans because they were never needed
Back when this was all illegal immigrants from Africa arriving in boats the simple solution was to bring back national borders, but everyone acted as if this was some arcane art that could not be accomplished when that's exactly how everything was for Europe just 30 years ago. I was honestly gobsmacked when the Italians' unelected government intercepted every single boat they could find and brought them all to Italy instead of turning them back around o_O
When those illegal immigrants shapeshifted into Syrians the solution was still the same, then when actual Syrians started arriving I suggested taking the side of the Assad regime with the added clause of forcing Assad's departure one way or another after the war ended, as well as launching military and police strikes on human trafficking rings on both sides of the Med whilst also putting troops to coast on Libya. Today the military and police strikes on human traffickers did take place in some North African countries, European and Turkish jurisdictions, but the talks between the West and East over Syria went nowhere. Now certain countries have reinstated national borders (Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Austria e.t.c.) but it's not enough anymore and for those who did it too late, it's out of your control, so we need to send all the millions to Germany and Sweden for checki bants or else deport them back home.

Now there are only simple solutions for some countries. For others I think it's too late, but never too late for damage control. Plus if any of my solutions had ever been carried out and there was never a humanitarian crisis (I still remember when people were panicking over 200,000 a year hahahaha) the real problematic people would still run Academia, Politics and the Media. It would all just happen all over again. A rapid decline where people have to see the world they created is for the best.
I mean, I remember when I posted how ISIS fought for the Turkish border, how they were working in cooperation with human traffickers, how ISIS fighters had already been caught in refugee camps, how ISIS manuals describe how to exploit refugee status to move throughout Europe, how thinktanks and ISIS operatives themselves said they sent ISIS through Europe by exploiting refugee status, how Islamist militiants already did this and carried out attacks, how most return not to strike but to spread Islamism as teachers and instructors, how ISIS soldiers from Europe expressed their intent to return to Europe, how Danes and Swedes had actually brought ISIS fighters home and let them roam their streets - and people in the Europol thread were in straight denial. I remember saying this in response:

Quote

"if ISIS is not as uneducated and idiotic as you believe, you will not find them - especially with no border checks, you will never know. The reason why I keep posting examples from Britain is because Britain still has border checks and one of the greatest security bureaus in the world, both internal and external and with the English channel separating us from the continent giving us more control to the vetting process of refugees. What we can't catch, you sure as hell won't - and what we do, is a blip of what you won't. So either make like a South East Goat and open the floodgates of heaven to this or wait for fireworks time. Or if you're not European, join me with popcorn because despite our disagreements the outcome is the same. Europe has shit tier security bureaus (France aside) and zero border control outside of the Balkans (hence why you'll note the only ISIS fighters masquerading as refugees so far caught have been caught in Bulgaria or Calais - two places within Europe where borders still exist). Everywhere else? You'll never know! Ever!"

A portent of Paris to come. Mainland Europe has been festered with the apathetic, toleran and progresiv who will only ever act after calamity has struck, and by then everything is much too late.
The damage control:

• Reinstate national borders
• Continue maritime patrols and shutting down trafficking rings

The toleran question:

• Put Poland in charge of Academia and Media
• Allow refugees to live in progressive areas for maximum integration and enrichment

Ending world suffering:

• Sink Germany and Sweden into the North Sea (optional, would create beautiful reefs for marine life)
• Promote UK style "foreign aid" versus Merkel style "take boat here"
• After that, promote US style "strategic foreign investment" vs UK style "foreign aid"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/we6EIjI.png)

This was the world population around 1900

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/1plsHRL.png)

This is the world population in the current century

The reason why the UK -> US path works is that the great influx of aid provides a cushion for drought/war induced famine and the evolution into foreign investment creates a self-sustaining, powerful and stable country that provides for its own people. They can turn their large population into power, to master their own destiny. The reason why the Merkel -> Cologne path does not work is because it's just turning Europe into Eurabia to... Well, I'm not sure who it helps really lol, the only countries immigration is making dents in are European ones, it's just a matter of numbers.
Because the illegal immigrants brought to Europe are not going home and their departure does not make a noticeable dent in their home countries' population, it doesn't help their home country. It doesn't help the immigrants themselves unless they like being stuck in a Europe with no money and too many men living under a foreign people's roof with a foreign people's religion and it certainly doesn't help Europeans of today or of tomorrow (but this is the future the Yuros of today chose, and I'm sure they'll be consoled by the levels of enrichment). I'm not even sure if this benefits anyone except German industrialists that much, as for most developed European economies the basis of their economies rely on skilled services workers, not unskilled labourers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/3lf6KJO.png)

Islamists having bants in Europe are just symptoms of the various insanities afflicting Europeans. The Poles are accusing German admins of having deleted CCTV footage surrounding Cologne, I can't find anything on it (literally, searches return nothing at all), I have to use proxies to find sources and they're all Polish bloggers talking about their national TV news I can't fully understand.
I've come to the conclusion that if we fixed this humanitarian crisis and stopped Islamists from having their checki bants, Europeans are so weak the power vacuum would just be filled by the next strong horse, like street nazis, and if they were eliminated they'd just be replaced by the next strong horse, like toleran. Then we'd be back to square one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/K9Ifwmy.jpg)

A story for the history books to cherish, how giants did cut their legs off to fit in the ikea cuck shed xD
If we solved the humanitarian crisis now it'd all happen again, because the progresiv and toleran people want it to keep happening, they'll be guest workers, multicultural enrichers, boat freshers, psychological benefiters, refugees, asylum seekers, colonial retribution, nazi guilt relief, anything at any time ~ accelerationism today is King, and it is time to see Liberalism, Communism, Nazism, Duginism, Fundamentalism - all fall before Banterism, from the ashes arise. And we're doing it at a two speed Yurop, oioi

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:35:52 pm

1900 (http://i.imgur.com/we6EIjI.png), Europe is all the rage

2015 (http://i.imgur.com/1plsHRL.png), Europe is in old age

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 21, 2016, 03:13:16 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 21, 2016, 11:48:38 am

It's not about "comfortable" or "uncomfortable", it's about this discussion being incredibly, absolutely boring as hell. There are no new arguments since this mess started, no actual dialog, it's all filled with this incredible tedium of both sides talking past each other and ugh. I haven't seen anyone on neither the anti-migration side nor the pro-migration side offer anything approaching a solution to the problem. Hell I don't think they've even started discussing it, it's all stalled on the stage of "this is happening - no it is not happening - yeah huh - nuh uh" ad nauseum. Fucking ridiculous.

+1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 21, 2016, 03:17:35 pm

In Switzerland, Geneva airport decided to fire 30 men with arab last names from their luggage department, without any notice or justification. The Swiss media says the men were fired because of the heightened terrorist alert in place since december. Apparently, in december the Swiss authorities were given notice by the CIA of an imminent terror attack on Geneva. Directly after the Paris attacks, already new measures were put in place in the airport, including shortening the period of a mass security check on all personell from 5 to 2 years.

Directly after the new security checks were installed, it became known that one employee of the luggage department was registered with the French police as 'having connections to islamic terror', according to the Swiss newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung.
http://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/wegen-terrorverdachts-entlassen-1.18680167 (http://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/wegen-terrorverdachts-entlassen-1.18680167)
It's likely that the men were fired because of new security policies.

One of the fired men, a French citizen named Boubaker, is going to sue the airport, or at least demand an explanation for his job termination.
The man has no criminal record, but still his chances appear to be slim; if the firing was done because of new security policies, there is no case, because those are classified. And apart from that, every airport employee has signed a contract which includes a passage stating that they can be fired without reason at any time, if it is for security reasons.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/vliegveld-geneve-ontslaat-bagagepersoneel-met-arabische-naam~a4229805/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/vliegveld-geneve-ontslaat-bagagepersoneel-met-arabische-naam~a4229805/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 21, 2016, 03:43:31 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 21, 2016, 03:17:35 pm

Directly after the new security checks were installed, it became known that one employee of the luggage department was registered with the French police as 'having connections to islamic terror', according to the Swiss newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

Welp, in all honesty I can't blame them just based off that line alone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 04:56:15 pm

Quote

“Now imagine 1 billion inhabitants, imagine they all move north.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-18/wef-boss-schwab-warns-commodities-rout-could-spur-more-migration

rip merkeland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 21, 2016, 04:57:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/3lf6KJO.png)

Islamists having bants in Europe are just symptoms of the various insanities afflicting Europeans. The Poles are accusing German admins of having deleted CCTV footage surrounding Cologne, I can't find anything on it (literally, searches return nothing at all), I have to use proxies to find sources and they're all Polish bloggers talking about their national TV news I can't fully understand.
I've come to the conclusion that if we fixed this humanitarian crisis and stopped Islamists from having their checki bants, Europeans are so weak the power vacuum would just be filled by the next strong horse, like street nazis, and if they were eliminated they'd just be replaced by the next strong horse, like toleran. Then we'd be back to square one.

I can see results, but it's all reddit and twitter, and other sketchy places. I did find the Polish TV source though, not that I can verify that the subtitles are accurate.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1b_1452579086&comments=1&selected_view_mode=mobile&selected_view_mode=desktop

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 22, 2016, 04:49:24 am

Posting "xenophobic" views online in Germany could cost you your job and children (https://www.rt.com/news/316821-xenophobic-posts-child-rights/)

Quote

Individuals who choose to share radical or xenophobic views on social media risk not only losing their jobs in Germany, but their children as well, local media reports. Posting an unorthodox opinion on Facebook could be enough to get the ball rolling.
It's not clear how “radical” opinions will be defined. But simply by expressing discontent with Syrian refugees living nearby or making threats toward asylum-seekers parents may accidentally push things too far, Die Welt reported, citing the Deutsche Anwaltauskunft information portal of the German Lawyers' Association.

Controversial political or religious sentiments from a parent will have a direct impact on the rights of the child, if the child's welfare is endangered thereby. A family court will have to clarify whether an action endangers the child's welfare indeed and whether termination of parental rights is necessary.

"The decisive factor is common sense," Eva Becker, Chair of the Working Group on Family Law in the German Bar Association (DAV) told the German daily.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been quoted as saying she wants more action from Facebook when it comes to filtering hateful racist posts. The comments were overheard by media as Merkel was speaking to CEO Mark Zuckerberg on the sidelines of the UN summit in New York. Her request could be heard on a live transmission broadcast seconds before the introductory remarks at a luncheon on Saturday.

The German leader asked Zuckerberg about hate speech posts, with the Facebook CEO responding: “We need to do some work.”

Merkel wondered: “Are you working on this?” Zuckerberg replied: “Yeah.”

Facebook has recently pledged to boost efforts to fight racism online amid criticism. Earlier this month the company announced its cooperation with German Internet watchdog, Voluntary Self-Monitoring of Multimedia Service Providers, to keep close tabs on hate speech posts.

The increased attention towards online hate has been triggered by an influx of refugees traveling to Germany. Over 410,000 people have registered on the country's initial registration system since January, and over 100,000 asylum seekers were accepted in August alone. The country (home to 80 million people) has accepted more asylum applications than any other European state. It expects to take in up to a million refugees from war-torn countries such as Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan in 2015 – four times the amount in 2014.

The crisis has driven a wedge between those who support asylum seekers arriving in huge numbers and those against them. Around 10,000 members of PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans against Western Islamization) marched through Dresden earlier this month. The crowds decried the wave of refugees and migrants coming to Europe and, in particular, the arrival of Muslim asylum seekers en masse in Germany. Scuffles with police erupted during similar marches in Berlin.

I don't even know where to start.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 22, 2016, 05:15:56 am

From Die Welt, which I think is slightly less loonie state propaganda than Russia Times:

"If it endangers the child's welfare. ... Only having a controversial opinion is not enough to deprive them of their children. ...  Anyone who says that they would prefer it if no Syrian refugees lived in their neighbourhood, would not affect the child's welfare. If a father or mother openly expresses a threat against refugees in front of the child, it clearly exceeds the critical limit."

Paraphrased to correct some of the more egregious grammar and translation errors from Google Translate. The ideas are fundamentally the same, though.

(Source) (http://www.welt.de/finanzen/verbraucher/article146904927/Nach-Hetze-ist-das-Umgangsrecht-in-Gefahr.html) - (GT) (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Ffinanzen%2Fverbraucher%2Farticle146904927%2FNach-Hetze-ist-das-Umgangsrecht-in-Gefahr.html&edit-text=&act=url).

Again, not expressing an opinion or making an argument, just providing more information and trying to clarify where it seems particularly far-out to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 22, 2016, 05:22:18 am

Quote from: Arx on January 22, 2016, 05:15:56 am

From Die Welt, which I think is slightly less loonie state propaganda than Russia Times:

"If it endangers the child's welfare. ... Only having a controversial opinion is not enough to deprive them of their children. ...  Anyone who says that they would prefer it if no Syrian refugees lived in their neighbourhood, would not affect the child's welfare. If a father or mother openly expresses a threat against refugees in front of the child, it clearly exceeds the critical limit."

Paraphrased to correct some of the more egregious grammar and translation errors from Google Translate. The ideas are fundamentally the same, though.

(Source) (http://www.welt.de/finanzen/verbraucher/article146904927/Nach-Hetze-ist-das-Umgangsrecht-in-Gefahr.html) - (GT) (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Ffinanzen%2Fverbraucher%2Farticle146904927%2FNach-Hetze-ist-das-Umgangsrecht-in-Gefahr.html&edit-text=&act=url).

Again, not expressing an opinion or making an argument, just providing more information and trying to clarify where it seems particularly far-out to me.

Honestly, I see what they're saying but I very much doubt that'll end up being the end execution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 06:11:37 am

It'll never stand in court. Child judge will verdict that being forcibly separated from parents is much more detrimental to the child's development than having it's parents get beaten up in front of them by riot police every one in a while.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 22, 2016, 06:53:15 am

Cultural-marxist hippies are sassing brave defenders of the Aryan master race. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85LwLsvSfc)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2016, 07:09:28 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 06:11:37 am

It'll never stand in court. Child judge will verdict that being forcibly separated from parents is much more detrimental to the child's development than having it's parents get beaten up in front of them by riot police every one in a while.

A look at past precedence says no. (http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/rotherham-abuse-trial-council-staff-threatened-to-take-children-off-woman-for-speaking-out-about-abuse-1-7682486) They tried taking away "Girl J's" children after they found out she was trying to report on her sexual abuse by culturally enriching individuals to the Times.

"The only reason the police started this investigation is because The Times printed my story." The ride never ends.


ALSO IN NEWS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING CULTURALLY ENRICHED

Russian cheekiness has gone too far (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-litvinenko-idUSKCN0UZ0Z6), as the inquiry into the polonium poisoning has ruled Putin probably ok'd putting polonium in some poor bloke's tea. Now everything about putting polonium in someone's tea just violates all rules of civility but to top the cheekibreekiness off they sent a t-shirt to one of the victim's friends (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/litvinenko-inquiry-andrei-lugovoi-sent-t-shirt-london-threatening-nuclear-death-2010-1539324) saying
"CSKA Moscow
Nuclear Death
Is Knocking
Your Door

Polonium 210
London, Hamburg,
To be continued,"

Putin calm the fuck down you're behaving worse than Genghis Khan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 07:14:21 am

Technically, it was an intentional nuclear attack by Russia Putin on NATO soil.
Hmm perhaps we should rename Russia into Putinistan out of respect for decent Russian people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 08:49:53 am

French Prime minister Manuel Valls announced in an interview with the BBC, that the National State of Emergency, which has been in effect now for over a month, will last "until the total global war against IS has ended". Which basically could mean years or decades.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35375303
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/valls-franse-noodtoestand-van-kracht-tot-oorlog-tegen-is-voorbij-is~a4230192/

So far, one month of National Emergency has led to 90 house searches by anti terror forces per day, without any judge's permission. A total of 2721 houses were searched since 13 december, which led to two legal investigations into terrorist networks.
During the searches, 434 weapons were found, 210 stashes of drugs, and 25 violations connected to terrorism.
361 people have been given house arrest, 319 people were arrested, of whom 48 were convicted by summary justice. The vast majority of all cases involved 'apologizing terrorism', which is a crime in France.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/een-maand-noodtoestand-in-frankrijk-90-huiszoekingen-per-dag~a4209119/

(So I guess technically it's okay to say "being indoctrinated by muslim extremism and anti-western sentiment from birth, some people go so bonkers that they shoot many people in Paris",
but it is not okay to say "I could even understand that some people have been so indoctrinated by mulsim extremism and anti-western sentiment from birth, that they go to Paris and shoot many people")

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 22, 2016, 11:42:01 am

Quote from: Baffler on January 21, 2016, 04:57:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/3lf6KJO.png)

Islamists having bants in Europe are just symptoms of the various insanities afflicting Europeans. The Poles are accusing German admins of having deleted CCTV footage surrounding Cologne, I can't find anything on it (literally, searches return nothing at all), I have to use proxies to find sources and they're all Polish bloggers talking about their national TV news I can't fully understand.
I've come to the conclusion that if we fixed this humanitarian crisis and stopped Islamists from having their checki bants, Europeans are so weak the power vacuum would just be filled by the next strong horse, like street nazis, and if they were eliminated they'd just be replaced by the next strong horse, like toleran. Then we'd be back to square one.

I can see results, but it's all reddit and twitter, and other sketchy places. I did find the Polish TV source though, not that I can verify that the subtitles are accurate.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1b_1452579086&comments=1&selected_view_mode=mobile&selected_view_mode=desktop

They are pretty accurate. Some lines are not subbed, but it doesn't affect the meaning of the whole sentence, it just cuts some verbal cruft at the beginning of sentences (as in, stuff like 'I'll add' or whatever).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 03:30:24 pm

The Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy has returned the assignment given to him, to form a government, to the king of Spain.
This is not unexpected. Even though Rajoy's party did win the last elections, but they lost the absolute majority.

The Spanish leader of the socialists, Pedro Sanchéz announced, even before Rajoy announced his failure to form a government, that he is prepared to start negotiations on forming a left wing coalition government with Podemos (the protest party, comparible to the Greek Syriza party).
This does imply that the socialist party and Podemos have come to agree on the most important differences in opinion between the parties.
The socalists said earlier that they would not form a government with Podemos, because Podemos is willing to hold public referendums about the secession of Catalonia.

Whether this means that Podemos dropped that willingness, or the socialists dropped their objections on the subject is as of yet unclear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 22, 2016, 09:49:07 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 22, 2016, 06:53:15 am

Cultural-marxist hippies are sassing brave defenders of the Aryan master race. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85LwLsvSfc)

Hard to tell from just the subtitles, but the miloltia types were on patrol looking for suspiciously arab-looking people, and the clowns were making fun of them? And this is Finland, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 23, 2016, 12:35:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 22, 2016, 03:30:24 pm

Whether this means that Podemos dropped that willingness, or the socialists dropped their objections on the subject is as of yet unclear.

And United
Probably the first. Although word on the street is that Podemos' support will cost the PSOE.

These two, btw, are still short of support. They'll need the two MP of United Left, and at least one other, probably the Basque Nationalist Party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Spehss _ on January 23, 2016, 02:17:20 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on January 22, 2016, 09:49:07 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 22, 2016, 06:53:15 am

Cultural-marxist hippies are sassing brave defenders of the Aryan master race. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85LwLsvSfc)

Hard to tell from just the subtitles, but the miloltia types were on patrol looking for suspiciously arab-looking people, and the clowns were making fun of them? And this is Finland, right?

Apparently. "Soldiers of Odin" is a vigilante group in Finland (http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/13727-soldiers-of-odin-street-patrol-harass-expats-in-helsinki.html), and the people in clown costumes are people in clown costumes valiantly passive-aggressively protesting racism, sexism, and bigotry. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/loldiers-of-odin-finland-1.3410837) In my opinion all that's gonna do is increase tensions between extreme right and extreme left.

The like:dislike ratio of that video is interesting. Either people don't like the clowning around or don't like the vigilante group. Or maybe they support the vigilante group and don't like the clowns. Or maybe both.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 23, 2016, 06:05:24 am

War refugees from Ukraine have been denied asylum in Germany despite chunks of Ukraine being, effectively, an active war zone. (https://archive.is/LznHG)
Hungary and South African Boer farmers are currently in talks to discuss moving Boer farmers to vacant farmland in Hungary. (https://archive.is/EK1fS)

Keep in mind that I'm pretty certain the New Observer is very right wing, and their viewpoints are not necessarily mine. It's just hard to find news like this except for obscure sites. Definitely interesting and a bit different.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 23, 2016, 07:03:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2016, 07:09:28 am

ALSO IN NEWS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING CULTURALLY ENRICHED

Russian cheekiness has gone too far (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-litvinenko-idUSKCN0UZ0Z6), as the inquiry into the polonium poisoning has ruled Putin probably ok'd putting polonium in some poor bloke's tea. Now everything about putting polonium in someone's tea just violates all rules of civility but to top the cheekibreekiness off they sent a t-shirt to one of the victim's friends (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/litvinenko-inquiry-andrei-lugovoi-sent-t-shirt-london-threatening-nuclear-death-2010-1539324) saying
"CSKA Moscow
Nuclear Death
Is Knocking
Your Door

Polonium 210
London, Hamburg,
To be continued,"

Putin calm the fuck down you're behaving worse than Genghis Khan

Well that's just uncivilized. This is the kind of behaviour that has recently made me dislike the self-proclaimed Russian patriots/nationalists as much as the self-proclaimed democrats/liberals... you can't build a state on semi-open banditry like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

Quote

War refugees from Ukraine have been denied asylum in Germany despite chunks of Ukraine being, effectively, an active war zone.

Denying Ukrainians is not racism so it is perfectly fine :D

To be more serious denying Ukrainians is absolutely right - unlike Syria, Ukrainians have no problem to move to a perfectly safe area of a country. 
Sure, no one will pay free ~1000 euro per month per family here...

Still I am interested what EU will do if Russia will move further and there will be very real millions of Ukrainians fleeing the war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 23, 2016, 07:23:55 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

Quote

War refugees from Ukraine have been denied asylum in Germany despite chunks of Ukraine being, effectively, an active war zone.

Denying Ukrainians is not racism so it is perfectly fine :D

To be more serious denying Ukrainians is absolutely right - unlike Syria, Ukrainians have no problem to move to a perfectly safe area of a country. 
Sure, no one will pay free ~1000 euro per month per family here...

Still I am interested what EU will do if Russia will move further and there will be very real millions of Ukrainians fleeing the war.

I'm not sure on the refugee stuff but, as far as I know, being able to fear for your life in the future is considered a legitimate reason to flee a country. As is conscription which I think Ukraine has, right?

You have to think that, to get to Germany, Syrians have to go through a lot of safe countries, including ones outside the EU. So to deny Ukrainians who have a very legitimate reason to flee for their lives is hypocritical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on January 23, 2016, 07:27:46 am

It'd be pretty hillarious in a black comedy sort of way if we started seeing Ukranians with forged Syrian documents trying to get into the EU.

At that point we'd need a sign on the border saying "You have to be this culturaly diverse to be granted asylum" and then some images of cultural diversity :V

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 23, 2016, 07:34:42 am

REPORT: Locals Fled Pool After Migrants Masturbated Into Jacuzzi, Defecated Into Kid’s Pool, Invaded Girls Changing Rooms (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/22/locals-fled-pool-after-migrants-masturbated-into-jacuzzi-defecated-into-kids-pool-molested-bathers/)
Archive (https://archive.is/bxm5q)

Quote

A German swimming bath has banned migrants from entering the premises after a group of men went on an obscene rampage, laughing in the faces of pool staff when challenged about their grotesque behaviour.

A group of migrant men and women were caught on security camera at the Johannisbad baths in Zwickau, Saxony engaging in unacceptable behaviour, including masturbating into the jacuzzi. In separate incidents other groups of migrants were caught “contaminating” the children’t training pool by “emptying their bowels in the water”, and sexually assaulting other bathers, reports Bild.

The allegations against the migrant bathers has come to light thanks to a leaked internal letter from the Zwickau Town Hall, between the chief clerk to his department head, reproduced in part by German tabloid Bild. Writing of the historic swimming pool’s decision to close their doors to migrants until further notice, Rainer Kallweit wrote this week of a shocking incident which has left the baths abandoned by local swimmers.

In his report, the authenticity of which has since been confirmed by the city administration Mr. Kallweit wrote the shocking words:

“An asylum seeker has masturbated in the hot tub and ejaculated into the basin. This is also recorded on the surveillance camera”. He wrote that the group desecrating the jacuzzi, having been thrown out by the lifeguards later returned took “selfies” of themselves while they were in the tub, “jeering” the whole time.

Writing of another pool under his jurisdiction in the down of Zwickau, the town employee continued to say a group of “young unaccompanied women and children” used the children’s training pool, as none of the party could swim. He wrote, in classic civil servants language they “contaminated the pool by getting rid of the contents of their intestines. Native people immediately left the pool”.

This was not the only assault on the pool. The day before, wrote Mr. Wallweit “8 foreign men … in the sauna” harassed locals, forcing pool staff to pretend the Sauna was out of action when enquiries were made my migrant men, if there were at that time local women using it. He told his superiors: “furthermore, the lifeguards have to protect women and girls from the asylum seekers. Young men wanted to forcibly penetrate the female changing room”.

Police are now investigating the allegations, and in future will be called immediately in case of such behaviour.

The local radio station reports the actions of the migrants has caused “outrage”, and a number of sexual harassment of women and girls by migrants has been reported. Migrants have now been banned from the pool until they can be educated at the migrant centres about “behaviour towards woman and girls in swimwear” and the “user regulations of our baths”.

This behaviour in Zwickau is not by any means unique in Germany. Breitbart London has reported on a number of sex attacks on children in swimming baths over the past week, with girls as young as 11 and boys as young as three being targeted by migrant gangs. On one occasion in Munich, a pair of young girls enjoying the waterslide at their local pool were groped, “allegedly under their bathing suits”, “and possibly raped” by a gang of “refugees”.

The men believed to be responsible, Syrian and Afghan asylum seekers, were arrested and released by police.

It's Breitbart who have taken it from the Bild, so take it as you will. Emphasis mine.

Quote from: Jopax on January 23, 2016, 07:27:46 am

It'd be pretty hillarious in a black comedy sort of way if we started seeing Ukranians with forged Syrian documents trying to get into the EU.

At that point we'd need a sign on the border saying "You have to be this culturaly diverse to be granted asylum" and then some images of cultural diversity :V

Nothing would shock me any more. I know of a few people who've done something similar in the UK to claim benefits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 09:30:06 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 23, 2016, 07:34:42 am

REPORT: Locals Fled Pool After Migrants Masturbated Into Jacuzzi, Defecated Into Kid’s Pool, Invaded Girls Changing Rooms (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/22/locals-fled-pool-after-migrants-masturbated-into-jacuzzi-defecated-into-kids-pool-molested-bathers/)
Archive (https://archive.is/bxm5q)

Quote

*snip news article of crazy*

It's Breitbart who have taken it from the Bild, so take it as you will. Emphasis mine.

If actually true, then they should have asked those people if they would do those same acts in their home countries and if no, then ask why the hell they would do that here.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2016, 09:44:12 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 23, 2016, 07:03:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2016, 07:09:28 am

ALSO IN NEWS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING CULTURALLY ENRICHED

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Russian cheekiness has gone too far (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-litvinenko-idUSKCN0UZ0Z6), as the inquiry into the polonium poisoning has ruled Putin probably ok'd putting polonium in some poor bloke's tea. Now everything about putting polonium in someone's tea just violates all rules of civility but to top the cheekibreekiness off they sent a t-shirt to one of the victim's friends (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/litvinenko-inquiry-andrei-lugovoi-sent-t-shirt-london-threatening-nuclear-death-2010-1539324) saying
"CSKA Moscow
Nuclear Death
Is Knocking
Your Door

Polonium 210
London, Hamburg,
To be continued,"

Putin calm the fuck down you're behaving worse than Genghis Khan

Well that's just uncivilized. This is the kind of behaviour that has recently made me dislike the self-proclaimed Russian patriots/nationalists as much as the self-proclaimed democrats/liberals... you can't build a state on semi-open banditry like that.

Not even a wise strategy to boot, since trying to scare really stubborn slavs with death just makes them doubly stubborn and gives them nothing to lose.

Quote from: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 09:30:06 am

If actually true, then they should have asked those people if they would do those same acts in their home countries and if no, then ask why the hell they would do that here.....

It's the current year? I can think of no other reason other than witnessing the fall of Rome, the banter to end all civilization, the first second and third sacking of Constantinople, the heavenly rebellion of bants, reaching the zenith of the happening.

Basically we have been in Kali Yuga for a long while and waited expectantly for our cancers to go away if we ignored it. Now is the time to reap our rewards :/

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

Quote

War refugees from Ukraine have been denied asylum in Germany despite chunks of Ukraine being, effectively, an active war zone.

Denying Ukrainians is not racism so it is perfectly fine :D

It's impossible to deny Ukrainians anything because they have white privilege and so can never be oppressed

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

To be more serious denying Ukrainians is absolutely right - unlike Syria, Ukrainians have no problem to move to a perfectly safe area of a country.

To get to Sweden from Syria one must pass through Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Italy, Croatia, Austria, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Germany, Denmark and that's for actual Syrians.

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

Sure, no one will pay free ~1000 euro per month per family here...
Still I am interested what EU will do if Russia will move further and there will be very real millions of Ukrainians fleeing the war.

Nothing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 10:17:03 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2016, 09:44:12 am

[

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 23, 2016, 07:14:18 am

To be more serious denying Ukrainians is absolutely right - unlike Syria, Ukrainians have no problem to move to a perfectly safe area of a country.

To get to Sweden from Syria one must pass through Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Italy, Croatia, Austria, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Germany, Denmark and that's for actual Syrians.

Italy? That's a bit of a detour, unless you're using the very eastern part, though even that is still a bit of a detour, but yes, you've made your point. You're also leaving out the route that goes through Russia and Finland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2016, 10:31:47 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 10:17:03 am

Italy? That's a bit of a detour, unless you're using the very eastern part, though even that is still a bit of a detour

Greece -> Italy boat lane

Quote from: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 10:17:03 am

but yes, you've made your point. You're also leaving out the route that goes through Russia and Finland.

Finland and Russia both actively block them, are freezing cold and very far away

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 11:06:07 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2016, 10:31:47 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 23, 2016, 10:17:03 am

but yes, you've made your point. You're also leaving out the route that goes through Russia and Finland.

Finland and Russia both actively block them, are freezing cold and very far away

At this time of year, yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 23, 2016, 11:37:47 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 23, 2016, 07:03:09 am

Well that's just uncivilized. This is the kind of behaviour that has recently made me dislike the self-proclaimed Russian patriots/nationalists as much as the self-proclaimed democrats/liberals... you can't build a state on semi-open banditry like that.

VOTE SERGARR FOR NEXT RUSSIAN PRESIDENT

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 23, 2016, 11:40:10 am

Wait, that wasn't the plan anyway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 23, 2016, 12:07:55 pm

During last year 69 minors were allowed to live with their "husbands" by Swedish authorities (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artikel=6352047), completely against Swedish law. And that's just for the one city, Malmö. They don't say it in the article but the over strain on housing (and other social errvices) availabilities that's occurred due to the mass immigration is obviously one of the main reasons behind this. But being a tacit supporter of forced child marriages is obviously preferable to lowering the amount of immigrants we let in to a sensible level.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 23, 2016, 12:51:52 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 23, 2016, 12:07:55 pm

During last year 69 minors were allowed to live with their "husbands" by Swedish authorities (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artikel=6352047), completely against Swedish law. And that's just for the one city, Malmö. They don't say it in the article but the over strain on housing (and other social errvices) availabilities that's occurred due to the mass immigration is obviously one of the main reasons behind this. But being a tacit supporter of forced child marriages is obviously preferable to lowering the amount of immigrants we let in to a sensible level.

OK, seriously, even with all scepticism due to biased sources, with what we're hearing so far I think we can safely say that Sweden's going bonkers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 23, 2016, 12:58:47 pm

In other news, there were massive protests in all major cities in Poland. They were carried out by an organisation called "KOD" - Komitet Obrony Demokracji (Democracy Defence Comitee). There were even protests in Vienna, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Brussels, Paris, Stockholm and Melbourne. The manifestation was quite successful, with over 30 cities in Poland. Unfortunately, it is hard to find a non-government controlled source. I can only post this as a source (it is in polish, so GT it).

http://wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19519935,protesty-kod-w-calym-kraju.html?disableRedirects=true

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 23, 2016, 01:28:51 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 23, 2016, 12:58:47 pm

In other news, there were massive protests in all major cities in Poland. They were carried out by an organisation called "KOD" - Komitet Obrony Demokracji (Democracy Defence Comitee). There were even protests in Vienna, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Brussels, Paris, Stockholm and Melbourne. The manifestation was quite successful, with over 30 cities in Poland. Unfortunately, it is hard to find a non-government controlled source. I can only post this as a source (it is in polish, so GT it).

http://wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19519935,protesty-kod-w-calym-kraju.html?disableRedirects=true

What a coincidence, I read this post literally as I heard some more news on that on the radio.

The source you posted is firmly opposition, so caveat lector, but otherwise, there are a number of worrying things being pushed through: aside from the changes that makes the leadership of state media a direct ministerial appointment, a new law is giving the police and intelligence more powers in Internet invigilation - including, apparently, the option of preventative invigilation.

This is all on top of the first incident, which began with both the previous and current government separately appointing five replacement CC judges, the former having the current ruling party's president not accept the appointment, the latter's three appointments being ruled unconstitutional by the CC itself, the latter alongside the new government passing some changes which gimp them as an individual power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:56:49 am

Hah. This must be the most relaxing job assignment civil servants ever got: In Amsterdam, the city council is sending it's civil servants undercover.
They are going to go to the various massage salons in Amsterdam, and get a massage. If at any time, they are offered anything more erotic than a massage, they will report, and the salon will be closed by police. Illegal prostitution and woman slavery apparently is becoming a large problem in Amsterdam's massage salons.

"how was your job?"
"got 25 massages and a blowjob, I'm exhausted"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 05:52:27 am

In Basinghausen, Germany, firefighters narrowly escaped with their life, when they discovered that arsonists had not only set fire to a refugee center under construction, but they also placed leaking gas canisters inside. Quick reaction of the firefighters, who immediatly removed the gas canisters from the fire and prioritized cooling those, prevented them from exploding and injuring or killing the firefighters.

Estimated damage to the refugee center under construction is 100000 euros.
Minister president Weil, of the Lower Saxony district said he is 'ashamed that things like this keep happening in Lower Saxony'. The Basinghausen area is notorious for having a higher than national average neo-nazi population.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/bijna-explosie-in-duitsland-in-brandend-azc-in-aanbouw~a4231106/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 05:56:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 05:52:27 am

In Basinghausen, Germany, firefighters narrowly escaped with their life, when they discovered that arsonists had not only set fire to a refugee center under construction, but they also placed leaking gas canisters inside. Quick reaction of the firefighters, who immediatly removed the gas canisters from the fire and prioritized cooling those, prevented them from exploding and injuring or killing the firefighters.

Estimated damage to the refugee center under construction is 100000 euros.
Minister president Weil, of the Lower Saxony district said he is 'ashamed that things like this keep happening in Lower Saxony'. The Basinghausen area is notorious for having a higher than national average neo-nazi population.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/bijna-explosie-in-duitsland-in-brandend-azc-in-aanbouw~a4231106/

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 24, 2016, 06:09:10 am

Merkel, pls ban nullBolt for advocating terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on January 24, 2016, 06:17:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:56:49 am

Hah. This must be the most relaxing job assignment civil servants ever got: In Amsterdam, the city council is sending it's civil servants undercover.
They are going to go to the various massage salons in Amsterdam, and get a massage. If at any time, they are offered anything more erotic than a massage, they will report, and the salon will be closed by police. Illegal prostitution and woman slavery apparently is becoming a large problem in Amsterdam's massage salons.

"how was your job?"
"got 25 massages and a blowjob, I'm exhausted"

Wait, isn't annoucing an undercover operation publicly kind of going against said undercover operation? Because what's stopping said salons from just stopping offering said services until the percieved danger has passed? Other than sheer stupidity that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 06:30:12 am

Quote from: Jopax on January 24, 2016, 06:17:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:56:49 am

Hah. This must be the most relaxing job assignment civil servants ever got: In Amsterdam, the city council is sending it's civil servants undercover.
They are going to go to the various massage salons in Amsterdam, and get a massage. If at any time, they are offered anything more erotic than a massage, they will report, and the salon will be closed by police. Illegal prostitution and woman slavery apparently is becoming a large problem in Amsterdam's massage salons.

"how was your job?"
"got 25 massages and a blowjob, I'm exhausted"

Wait, isn't annoucing an undercover operation publicly kind of going against said undercover operation? Because what's stopping said salons from just stopping offering said services until the percieved danger has passed? Other than sheer stupidity that is.

It's not a one time action, I believe they are planning on keeping the operation going for a while, or perhaps even indefinitly. Look at it like the Food and Health authority inspectors. It'll be just like that, but then for the massage sector. If all illegal pimps stop whoring for that period? Fine. Mission accomplished, at least for the period of control, no more illegal whoring. If they don't stop pimping? They'll get caught. Mission accomplished as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 06:56:20 am

Quote

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

Those are actions of a cowardly minority.

If you talking on behalf of entire nation then go on, gather few millions on the streets in a peaceful protest if you want government to hear you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 06:59:02 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 06:56:20 am

Quote

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

Those are actions of a cowardly minority.

If you talking on behalf of entire nation then go on, gather few millions on the streets in a peaceful protest if you want government to hear you.

+1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 24, 2016, 07:00:26 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 05:56:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 05:52:27 am

In Basinghausen, Germany, firefighters narrowly escaped with their life, when they discovered that arsonists had not only set fire to a refugee center under construction, but they also placed leaking gas canisters inside. Quick reaction of the firefighters, who immediatly removed the gas canisters from the fire and prioritized cooling those, prevented them from exploding and injuring or killing the firefighters.

Estimated damage to the refugee center under construction is 100000 euros.
Minister president Weil, of the Lower Saxony district said he is 'ashamed that things like this keep happening in Lower Saxony'. The Basinghausen area is notorious for having a higher than national average neo-nazi population.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/bijna-explosie-in-duitsland-in-brandend-azc-in-aanbouw~a4231106/

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

So terrorism is a good thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 07:02:02 am

Yeah, those would-be murderers are as much 'the people' as Cleve Bundy's bandit gang was 'the people'. Protip: If you have to claim the backing of the 'silent majority' against the non-silent majority that denounces you, you're very probably wrong.

Also, Null, you should probably think long and hard about why you defend people who apparently very deliberately tried to kill those firemen. They're quite literally terrorists, and you're apparently not very far away from their mindframe.

E: Dammit, Arx, quit ninjaing me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 07:18:42 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 06:56:20 am

Quote

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

Those are actions of a cowardly minority.

If you talking on behalf of entire nation then go on, gather few millions on the streets in a peaceful protest if you want government to hear you.

People have done. The government has not listened. Do you think the current government cares?

If people in the USSR had taken to the streets, would the government have listened?

Quote from: Arx on January 24, 2016, 07:00:26 am

So terrorism is a good thing?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

The sad thing is that I have more respect for ISIS than I do for European governance. At least one is fighting for what they think of as their people.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 07:02:02 am

Yeah, those would-be murderers are as much 'the people' as Cleve Bundy's bandit gang was 'the people'. Protip: If you have to claim the backing of the 'silent majority' against the non-silent majority that denounces you, you're very probably wrong.

Also, Null, you should probably think long and hard about why you defend people who apparently very deliberately tried to kill those firemen. They're quite literally terrorists, and you're apparently not very far away from their mindframe.

Do you think the media is the non-silent majority? Really? A media that has been shown to have been lying (deliberately and by omission) for the past five years.

I mean, fuck, like two pages back there was a report about Polish protests which have not been shown at all in the Western media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 07:52:59 am

Quote

People have done. The government has not listened. Do you think the current government cares?

If people in the USSR had taken to the streets, would the government have listened?

Do you release that you say this to a Ukrainian? We had people on the streets, government didn't listen, things went violent.

We had enough radicals to start going terrorism route and many tasty targets to blow up. We never did it and I am proud that we never acted this way. It is wisdom of my nation.

Oh, and yes, when people went to the streets USSR listened... It collapsed. There was a crowd led by Yeltsin, you know?

Go and gather at least quarter of million protesters in Berlin or Paris and camp there for few weeks. Then we will see if the government (and other part of nation) will listen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 24, 2016, 08:21:41 am

The problem, nullBolt, is that

a) I haven't seen much to suggest that non-violent protest has been happening on a grand scale, and
b) Are you sure anti-immigration feeling is the will of the majority? I haven't seen anything suggesting it's the will of the absolute majority.

I'm not going to try to engage with anything else you've said because I think we have irreconcilable ideological differences there and there's not much point in trying to argue it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:25:53 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 07:18:42 am

Do you think the media is the non-silent majority? Really? A media that has been shown to have been lying (deliberately and by omission) for the past five years.

Do you really think you and your echo chamber have the objective truth, and everyone else is just lying maliciously? Show me one poll indicating widespread German support for terrorist acts like the ones you defend, for the murderers and arsonists you call 'freedom fighters'. The AfD is at ten per cent right now, almost exclusively supported by men, and about 68% of Germans believe it to be a transient movement./url] Tell me, where do you see a fucking silent majority in that?

 (http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-01/hannelore-kraft-tv-duell-afd-spd-malu-dreyer)

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 07:52:59 am

Go and gather at least quarter of million protesters in Berlin or Paris and camp there for few weeks. Then we will see if the government (and other part of nation) will listen.

Yeah, this. They tried, actually - Pegida, Legida, Kögida, Bogida, and all the other organizations where cowards gather to feel strong as part of the mass. Apart from a couple cities in the East they were vastly outnumbered everywhere by the counter-protesters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 24, 2016, 08:41:12 am

It's pretty hard to protest anything when you will be painted as racist and ostracized for criticizing anything related to immigration, even if you are a Muslim immigrant yourself and revealing active recruiting by terror organisations such as al-Shabab in your very home quarters (http://www.svt.se/ug/jag-trodde-pa-journalistiken). This translated interview is from the documentary/investigative show the above article is about (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as4m-dDubjg), if you don't want to google translate. The show is Uppdrag Granskning from SvT, the Swedish state television.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:25:53 am

quote author=Ukrainian Ranger link=topic=155469.msg6760309#msg6760309 date=1453639979]
Go and gather at least quarter of million protesters in Berlin or Paris and camp there for few weeks. Then we will see if the government (and other part of nation) will listen.

Yeah, this. They tried, actually - Pegida, Legida, Kögida, Bogida, and all the other organizations where cowards gather to feel strong as part of the mass. Apart from a couple cities in the East they were vastly outnumbered everywhere by the counter-protesters.
[/quote]

So when Pegida and the like gathers they are cowards, but the counter-protesters aren't? What are they then, heroes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 24, 2016, 08:53:08 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 05:56:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 05:52:27 am

In Basinghausen, Germany, firefighters narrowly escaped with their life, when they discovered that arsonists had not only set fire to a refugee center under construction, but they also placed leaking gas canisters inside. Quick reaction of the firefighters, who immediatly removed the gas canisters from the fire and prioritized cooling those, prevented them from exploding and injuring or killing the firefighters.

Estimated damage to the refugee center under construction is 100000 euros.
Minister president Weil, of the Lower Saxony district said he is 'ashamed that things like this keep happening in Lower Saxony'. The Basinghausen area is notorious for having a higher than national average neo-nazi population.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/bijna-explosie-in-duitsland-in-brandend-azc-in-aanbouw~a4231106/

When peaceful methods of protest fail and the government fails to meet the needs of the people, the people must take actions to ensure that their demands are listened to.

This is one of the sentiments that is very much a problem currently.

this is NOT a normal NOR acceptable thing to do. These people have NOTHING that supports their claims that "peaceful methods have failed".

Europe is anything but divided on the refugee problem and the politics show exactly that.

What these people are doing is using fear as a weapon to influence public opinion, which is just terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:54:23 am

scriver: I don't consider the Pegida protesters cowards because they go on the streets, scriver. I consider them cowards because of the way (I think they) they think, and the way they chose to (not) be politically active in the past.

The counterprotesters are mostly just regular folks as far as I can tell, with some far-left nutjobs and assholes mixed in. Nothing out of the usual, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:01:43 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 07:52:59 am

Do you release that you say this to a Ukrainian? We had people on the streets, government didn't listen, things went violent.

We had enough radicals to start going terrorism route and many tasty targets to blow up. We never did it and I am proud that we never acted this way. It is wisdom of my nation.

Oh, and yes, when people went to the streets USSR listened... It collapsed. There was a crowd led by Yeltsin, you know?

Go and gather at least quarter of million protesters in Berlin or Paris and camp there for few weeks. Then we will see if the government (and other part of nation) will listen.

You do know what Occupy Wall Street was, right?

Quote from: Arx on January 24, 2016, 08:21:41 am

The problem, nullBolt, is that

a) I haven't seen much to suggest that non-violent protest has been happening on a grand scale, and
b) Are you sure anti-immigration feeling is the will of the majority? I haven't seen anything suggesting it's the will of the absolute majority.

I'm not going to try to engage with anything else you've said because I think we have irreconcilable ideological differences there and there's not much point in trying to argue it.

a) You can't really have non-violent protest on a grand scale anymore. You'll be attacked and singled out. I think Britain First is a joke but they went out and tried to non-violently protest and were repeatedly physically attacked. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU)
b) Honestly, you can't really tell. There's quite a lot of anti-immigration groups that are getting a lot more political support, though.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:25:53 am

Do you really think you and your echo chamber have the objective truth, and everyone else is just lying maliciously? Show me one poll indicating widespread German support for terrorist acts like the ones you defend, for the murderers and arsonists you call 'freedom fighters'. The AfD is at ten per cent right now, almost exclusively supported by men, and about 68% of Germans believe it to be a transient movement./url] Tell me, where do you see a fucking silent majority in that? (http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-01/hannelore-kraft-tv-duell-afd-spd-malu-dreyer)

Why did you change the topic from the media lying? You're also implying that I said burning places down gains silent majority, which is not the case. There is a very large silent majority out there that is sickened by what is going on, though.

The Swedish Democrats make up 20% of their country's votes and their whole platform is anti-immigration. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-politics-poll-idUSKBN0TK3RS20151201) No one is speaking up for them, though, because they are silent. How many more people are there out there who believe in their policies?

I have a sneaking suspicion you'd dismiss any evidence of support that people could show, just as you'd dismiss evidence showing that migrants heavily support terror attacks and very "extremist" beliefs.

Quote from: scriver on January 24, 2016, 08:41:12 am

It's pretty hard to protest anything when you will be painted as racist and ostracized for criticizing anything related to immigration, even if you are a Muslim immigrant yourself and revealing active recruiting by terror organisations such as al-Shabab in your very home quarters (http://www.svt.se/ug/jag-trodde-pa-journalistiken). This translated interview is from the documentary/investigative show the above article is about (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as4m-dDubjg), if you don't want to google translate. The show is Uppdrag Granskning from SvT, the Swedish state television.

Exactly, no one is gonna speak up if they're gonna be ostracised and fired and harassed.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:25:53 am

Yeah, this. They tried, actually - Pegida, Legida, Kögida, Bogida, and all the other organizations where cowards gather to feel strong as part of the mass. Apart from a couple cities in the East they were vastly outnumbered everywhere by the counter-protesters.

Quote from: scriver on January 24, 2016, 08:41:12 am

So when Pegida and the like gathers they are cowards, but the counter-protesters aren't? What are they then, heroes?

One man's coward is another man's heroes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 24, 2016, 09:19:43 am

Quote

You do know what Occupy Wall Street was, right?

Yes. It was a farce made by morons that had no real public support

Quote

You can't really have non-violent protest on a grand scale anymore. You'll be attacked and singled out

LOL. LOL. LOL. Than do a violent one and go fight riot police :D (Oh, I forgot, no public support and no nuts :( )

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 09:29:52 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 08:54:23 am

scriver: I don't consider the Pegida protesters cowards because they go on the streets, scriver. I consider them cowards because of the way (I think they) they think, and the way they chose to (not) be politically active in the past.
The counterprotesters are mostly just regular folks as far as I can tell, with some far-left nutjobs and assholes mixed in. Nothing out of the usual, really.

Any politically active ilk of Pegida have been marginalized and attacked though. Consider our analogue Mosley, who said that current rates of immigration would make the natives strangers in their own country - despite having 3/4 of the country agreeing with him, he was dismissed from the cabinet. Even today you can see things where UKIP become the 3rd largest party yet win only 1 seat whilst the leftists with far less support retain disproportionately vast amounts of power, or more strikingly where Front Nationale won 1/3rd of the national vote and won not a single region. Then there's that issue where all the party leaders of all the mainstream parties come from the same elite Unis like Oxford, Cambridge, ENA, so you have that quandary where you can vote for a left-wing pro immigration pro-EU party or a right-wing pro immigration pro-EU party.

You know the saying in for a penny, in for a pound? The saying is an English one and says that if you're going to take a risk take a big one, and there's another one similar to that where if you're going to be punished the same for a lesser crime as a greater crime - do the greater one. As it stands for places like Germany there is nothing that will ever be done politically to stop this immigration because Merkel has no interest in doing so. Their votes are quite meaningless and if they campaigned politically they'd be marginalized and portrayed as the next Hitler no matter what they did, even if they were pro-LGBT sovereign nationalists more tame than American democrats. This is why I shitposted earlier that Germany is setting itself up for war, because it seems they have.

Heck, despite all of our protests the EU is trying to blackmail us into halting our deportations. Yeah at this point I've made up my mind, it's not incompetence they're enriching on purpose.

Quote from: scrdest on January 23, 2016, 12:51:52 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 23, 2016, 12:07:55 pm

During last year 69 minors were allowed to live with their "husbands" by Swedish authorities (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artikel=6352047), completely against Swedish law. And that's just for the one city, Malmö. They don't say it in the article but the over strain on housing (and other social errvices) availabilities that's occurred due to the mass immigration is obviously one of the main reasons behind this. But being a tacit supporter of forced child marriages is obviously preferable to lowering the amount of immigrants we let in to a sensible level.

OK, seriously, even with all scepticism due to biased sources, with what we're hearing so far I think we can safely say that Sweden's going bonkers.

Going? This has been the state of affairs for decades, mold does not appear overnight even if it is only discovered in the one day you peeled back the damp covers.

Spoiler: wall of text (click to show/hide)

It's funny to shitpost ebin Sweden Yes memes, but the saddest thing is this stupid shit is pretty endemic to every Western nation. I suppose you could say this was the result of the progressive left moving from dominating the 4th estate to the 1st, 2nd and 4th, but even when European nations had right wing governments in power they did the exact same shit, just using different reasons. Pure coincidence lol.
I wonder how culpable everyone is. I mean 60 years ago the idea that Europeans would be made minorities in their own nations was unthinkable, even on bay12 the same arguments that immigration affects no one on the individual or national level keep floating back up, though worryingly they now mark that on the pan-European level. The whole point of the anti-racist copypasta was that it was such a laughable notion, hahahaha. I nearly died of laughter when looking through old posts on this, trying to make sense of the present with my past musings, and I burst out laughing how many times people attacked me as a liar or quite politely said they distrusted me to only ever speak the truth on the most blatant happenings. I would not believe me, ha, yet I have been consistently guilty of underestimating. I just can't even process how severe the horror is, how pronounced the enriching changes have been permanently done for so little reason other than the current year. I had the most surreal conversation with a Nigerian on how London is so different, and what happened to the English. This is definitely our home, but it was also someone else's before us, and they never got a say in whether this was the future they wanted :P In my entire life I've known only two English under the age of 40 in London, and once the older ones are dead - well, they're already a minority in London, even including Scots, Welsh and Irish. The cockneys will go extinct in a decade and a half, the English an even rarer sight, but it's not too bad because besides the last 15 years the displacement happened at a slow enough rate that new London cultures of banter formed that are pretty much as antisocial as normal and are clearly British, no one will deny our jihadist fighters are British jihadis when you hear them speak in an estuary accent complaining about the Arabs stealing their shoes.

Besides our Islamists, rape gangs, the battle between leftists and banterists that leaves everyone else in the crossfire; I'd say our biggest problem is that in some areas the rate of immigration was too fast and English is not even the lingua franca. For Sweden and Germany I'm even more intrigued, consider our problems appeared over 2000-2012(and to today, 2016), with immigration itself spread out over a longer period of time making the English minorities in their cities over a much longer period, one long enough to form new British cultural identities amongst immigrants. Sweden and Germany have done their best to do that in 2 years. Our society is degenerating, whilst the continental partners are decomposing. If we pretended all of these immigrants actually cared about integrating into Swedish or German society there'd still be the question of whether there are any left to integrate into.

One of the things that comes to my mind is how in my area there was this enclave of white Britons, they used to be hardcore leftists when they weren't an enclave, when they dwindled in number from tens of thousands to 200 what was left of them went so far right they supported British fascists (actual fascists). Yet by then they were so small in number that they didn't matter. I then look to see the rise of well-connected and increasingly belligerent groups in Europe and see the same thing happening. The far right rising in Europe was frankly a prospect once thought ludicrous and now statesmen and stateswomen are now making contingency plans for them because they're one misstep away from seizing power. It is interesting how the working class abandoned both their left wing parties and their right wing parties in favour of any party that would stop immigration, I also think it is helpful to note that when our Sovereign Nationalist anti-immigration party rose to prominence, they completely gutted the Ethnic Nationalist support base as people wanted to stop immigration but didn't want to support fascists. It seems they only turn to the fascists when they literally have no other choice.

Scriver, I do recall you saying something about how Skåne and Malmo with high immigration rates were very supportive of their populist anti-immigrant parties whilst the immigrant-free north was supporting of pro-immigration leftist parties. I cannot find statistics in the current year, as either the Swedish government does not want to publish them or they are incapable of recording them, but by 2012 Swedes were just 58% (http://redovisningar.malmo.se/2013/assets/Valfardsredovisning_2013.pdf). After the recent waves of immigration that were even too much for Swedish politicians, I have little doubt that Swedes are already a minority in Malmo. If the Swedish gov had not stopped collecting this information on the national level we'd also be able to make conjecture there. I have found it cute that even Swedish anti-immigrant parties campaign on the basis that they are protecting progressive values; no one will doubt that Swedes weren't committed to their project until the end.

Then I think back on Merkel saying multiculturalism has failed, that the immigration has to stop, that Germany is losing its "social core", then immediately moving to paralyze any actual attempt at limiting let alone reversing immigration. I still wonder how much is incompetence and mismanagement, and how much is deliberate design. When all the old Europeans die, they're going to leave their children in an even more precarious position, even more marginalized, with the same weak minds and weak bodies and even less of them than there were their parents. Over the old body of Europe the strong will pick it apart, and I think this will be a battle between strong immigrant conservatives versus immigrant conservatives, not immigrants versus Swedes.

Consider the battle of identity politics. Immigrant ideologies are based around building up social units, family units, racial units; African, Arab, Turkish, Kurdish nationalism, South Asian and East Asian family networks (and even Asian solidarity between south and east, not sure if that's unique to England where south, southeast and east meet), Islamism and the one community e.t.c.
Compare this to the new Western philosophies that are by design meant to divide and conquer, trying to find ways value people via the progressive stack, so someone can always be attacked for who they are. Divide yourself up and distance yourself from being a man, being European, being strait, being cis, all to create a generation of weak dysfunctional Europeans who cannot resist any immigrant conservatives, weak Europeans with no solidarity and only acknowledging of their group identity when it comes to racial shame.

Basically I think this is the last cry of an already defeated people, Germans are kill; I am most amused when back in 2014 they kept blaming nazis when refugee centres caught fire and when they found out it was done by rival immigrant groups they hushed up pretty quickly, I posit Germany will be fought over by the immigrants, not immigrants vs Germans

I mean before all this right wing violence the Islamist violence succeeded in getting everything it wanted, more immigration, more mosques, and leftists attacking anyone who published Muhammed for them. Kinda set a precedent for violence succeeding

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 09:45:13 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:01:43 am

Why did you change the topic from the media lying?

The topic isn't 'the media' lying, the topic is whether a silent majority is sufficiently anti-immigrant that burning down refugee homes and killing people in the process can be seen as a legitimate - since alternativlos - form of resistance. So far, you have provided exactly jack shit evidence. Go sit in the shame corner with Morrigi.

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:01:43 am

The Swedish Democrats make up 20% of their country's votes and their whole platform is anti-immigration. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-politics-poll-idUSKBN0TK3RS20151201) No one is speaking up for them, though, because they are silent. How many more people are there out there who believe in their policies?

How is this relevant for the situation in Germany? A large majority of Saudis are in favor of Sharia law. Should that fact enter the discussion on how Germany should treat its Salafists?

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:01:43 am

I have a sneaking suspicion you'd dismiss any evidence of support that people could show, just as you'd dismiss evidence showing that migrants heavily support terror attacks and very "extremist" beliefs.

And lo and behold, to the surprise of precisely no-one you use that accusation as an excuse to provide none at all. Hell, I even gave you a criterion for what I'd consider evidence: Get me poll data. Good, German poll data. I've certainly done the same for you, haven't I? The thing is: It doesn't exactly support your crude worldview...

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 09:29:52 am

Any politically active ilk of Pegida have been marginalized and attacked though. Consider our analogue Mosley, who said that current rates of immigration would make the natives strangers in their own country - despite having 3/4 of the country agreeing with him, he was dismissed from the cabinet. Even today you can see things where UKIP become the 3rd largest party yet win only 1 seat whilst the leftists with far less support retain disproportionately vast amounts of power, or more strikingly where Front Nationale won 1/3rd of the national vote and won not a single region. Then there's that issue where all the party leaders of all the mainstream parties come from the same elite Unis like Oxford, Cambridge, ENA, so you have that quandary where you can vote for a left-wing pro immigration pro-EU party or a right-wing pro immigration pro-EU party.

You're just describing the issues with the strange English voting system... Germany has an MMP system, which prevents these issues. Back in 2013 the AfD would almost have entered parliament, but failed to meet the 5% threshold. If the election was held now, it would get about 10% of seats - and thus 10% of the parliamentary power. The thing is: The AfD is hardly being discriminated against via voting mechanisms - but still they're only at 10% in the polls, and that's pretty much the high-water mark. They're simply a relatively small vocal minority, much like Die Linke.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:57:24 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 09:45:13 am

The topic isn't 'the media' lying, the topic is whether a silent majority is sufficiently anti-immigrant that burning down refugee homes and killing people in the process can be seen as a legitimate - since alternativlos - form of resistance. So far, you have provided exactly jack shit evidence. Go sit in the shame corner with Morrigi.

You quoted me talking about the media lying and took something completely different from it.

How about you prove that people aren't anti-immigration? You're the one stating a fact and not providing evidence for it.

Go sit in the shame corner with your hand.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 09:45:13 am

And lo and behold, to the surprise of precisely no-one you use that accusation as an excuse to provide none at all. Hell, I even gave you a criterion for what I'd consider evidence: Get me poll data. Good, German poll data. I've certainly done the same for you, haven't I? The thing is: It doesn't exactly support your crude worldview...

Crude worldview? What are you even talking about?

You want evidence, here's evidence from over a year ago (http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/majority-germans-reject-immigration-outside-eu-312282):

Quote

In Thursday’s (19 February) national edition of the Eurobarometer opinion poll, 37% of Germans surveyed see migration as the biggest challenge for the EU, and for Germany, at the moment.

Only in the United Kingdom (38%) and Malta (57%) are these percentages higher. In most member states, the economic situation (33%) and unemployment (29%) were perceived as the biggest Europe-wide issues.

Meanwhile only 29% of Germans have a positive opinion of immigration from third countries, outside the EU. A relative majority (45%) said they believe illegal immigration into the EU should be counteracted at both EU and national levels. This corresponds to perceptions among a growing number of respondents in Germany (29%), who feel there are not enough inspections at the EU’s external borders.

As a result, German citizens are somewhat more critical than the average of all Europeans surveyed, of which 57% are against immigrants from third countries. Opposition was higher than in Germany among respondents from Italy (75%), Latvia (79%) and Slovakia (74%).

This is before the many rapes and sexual assaults came out.

Here's a poll from just over two months ago from people with migrant backgrounds, before the MANY rapes and sexual assaults came out (http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151130/1030989458/germany-migrants-refugees-opinion-poll.html):

Quote

A poll of Germans found that people with an immigrant background have the same concerns about migration as those without; 40 percent said that Germany should receive fewer refugees than at current levels.

How about you post some evidence Germans aren't anti-immigration? How about you get your crude worldview out of this thread?

How absolutely dare you disparage and insult my opinions when you haven't even the wherewithal to research your own? What a joke.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Calling it now: This evidence isn't going be valid because reasons. Post some of your own evidence next time before demanding others post their's.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 09:59:53 am

How about some more evidence:

62% of Germans now say the number of asylum seekers is too high, up from 53% in November – driven mainly by the hardening attitudes of women (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/12/germans-attitudes-immigration-harden-following-col/)

You couldn't even bother to do a Google search before starting demands for evidence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 10:01:01 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 09:45:13 am

You're just describing the issues with the strange English voting system... Germany has an MMP system, which prevents these issues. Back in 2013 the AfD would almost have entered parliament, but failed to meet the 5% threshold. If the election was held now, it would get about 10% of seats - and thus 10% of the parliamentary power. The thing is: The AfD is hardly being discriminated against via voting mechanisms - but still they're only at 10% in the polls, and that's pretty much the high-water mark. They're simply a relatively small vocal minority, much like Die Linke.

Not just the English voting system, not just the French voting system, at the end of the day all powers answer to the EU and the EU only has one speed: "Oh God I literally can't stop taking in immigrants." Unsurprisingly the EU's used to pass laws that would not pass in their home country, yet apply to everyone. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html) Their votes mean fuck all whether they win anything or not. The EU taking it upon themselves to say they're allowed to take control of your borders becuz is just a long line of the EU going full diversity and trying to use immigrants to centralize power under one State.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: OOROLLOOO MY FRIEND on November 03, 1975, 08:55:54 pm

[spoiler=JUST CITE MY SHIT UP]People have very short memories, but these conversations repeat again and again. 2010, Merkel says Multiculturalism has utterly failed. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed) She's facing intense pressure from within her own party and from her own people to halt her social experiment. One third of Germans think Germany is overrun with foreigners, 55% believe Arabs are unpleasant people; so tolerant, very progressive. She no longer has support for mass immigration. 2013, Merkel stresses that Germany must accept more refugees whilst her parliamentary bloc moves to classify the Balkans as safe, allowing for easier rejection of asylum seekers from Serbia, Macedonia, Albania e.t.c. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-01/merkel-s-generosity-tested-by-surge-in-german-refugees). At that point Germany was taking in 200,000 refugees a year. They were warned that opening the door wider and leaving more incentives for people to make the journey to Germany would do the obvious; make more people make the journey to Germany.
By 2014:

Quote from: all claims and no cites makes jack a dull goy on May 26, 2028, 02:19:06 pm

Earlier in 2014 amongst first time asylum seekers (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/9/97/First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship%2C_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png) the proportion of Syrians was around 10-15%, not accounting for second time asylum seekers, fake Syrians (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/migrants-are-disguising-themselves-as-syrians-to-gain-entry-to-europe/2015/09/22/827c6026-5bd8-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html), those coming by sea (http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4) nor immigrants who authorities fail to log (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24583286). Eurostat has 700,000 asylum seekers in total logged across the EU despite countries like Germany alone taking in 750,000 illegal immigrants yearly, set to rise to 800,000 - conservative estimates. Measuring by asylum applications only takes into account those who bother to apply for asylum and takes their word for it. The German panic over how big they fucked up is intensifying after they failed to stop the influx (it has (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11522462/Illegal-immigration-to-Germany-at-record-high-increase-of-75-per-cent-in-one-year.html) increased to record highs (http://www.dw.com/en/immigration-pushes-germanys-population-to-highest-level-since-1992/a-18736658)) of people, after they failed to shovel the immigrants they so desperately lusted for onto other EU countries because they got cold feet(...) the didactic duo are running out (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/668b4bd0-3b75-11e5-bbd1-b37bc06f590c.html#axzz3rCL6Azju) of emergency accommodation on their own turf. (http://www.thelocal.se/20151105/sweden-urges-refugees-to-stay-in-germany)
And in response to receiving 10k immigrants in 7 days the Swedish PM is begging immigrants to stay in Germany. (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/10/swedish-migration-minister-pleads-migrants-stay-germany/)
It seems fitting to use the german word schadenfreude here, how pleasing it is to see when people get knocked off their moral high horses with a sharp kick to the bum. It is easy to see who has helped and who has miserably failed, failed their own people, failed Syrians and Iraqis, Somalis and Libyans and throw in a couple crying Germans and Swedes. It disappoints me that after Rotherham the German and Swedish police have not learned from this and also try to cover up enriching crime

That number had risen to 800,000 a year by conservative estimates, for Germany alone - excluding all other EU countries.
And unsurprisingly we are still talking about German and Swedish police covering up enriching crime, though it seems now they have shouldered all the blame leaving others just as responsible curiously clean.
By 2015 Merkel inquires whether Germany is losing that which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/merkel-under-fire-as-refugee-crisis-in-germany-worsens-a-1060720.html) By then the rate of immigration had its estimate increased from 800,000 to 1,500,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34442121), measured only by those who claimed asylum - excluding those who did not register. That number also does not include those logged as immigrants, legal or illegal. The number for Europe as a whole is set to increase to 3,000,000 in 2016 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-expecting-another-3-million-refugees-migrants-before-end-of-2016-a6722096.html), though I wonder how many times that number will be revised and how many will go to Germany. This will cost Germany by current estimates 17 billion euros (http://www.econotimes.com/The-overall-fiscal-cost-of-asylum-immigration-to-Germany-104404). Contrast with the UK, who has much less money to spend than Germany, who at a time where they have cut social spending for their own subjects have spent nothing short of a billion sterling actually helping those fleeing war (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-to-see-first-hand-how-uk-aid-is-helping-most-vulnerable-syrian-refugees). And that billion sterling have helped more, helped more in need - even helped those whose situations are so bad they cannot even flee war. Whilst countries like France, USA and UK kill smugglers, shut down smuggling rings in Europe, thwart terrorist smuggling actions and otherwise pay the price for Germans tearing away at national sovereignty - even fighting alongside and training Kurds and rebels to retake their lands everywhere from Nigeria to Ethiopia and Iraq, the only Germans who've done so have been volunteers, no state actors. Meanwhile after "Syrians" with fake syrian passports disappeared in Germany (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany-idUKKBN0U904D20151226) the Germans wasted no time in using this crisis to take control of other countries' borders by expanding Frontex's powers without the consent of the actual countries involved. So remember, having border control is racist unless you give it to the Germans.

Going on that a 1/3rd of Germans didn't want it, yet all mainstream parties were led by people who wanted it

Quote

Everyone in a position of power held the same opinion. Diversity was a good in itself, so making Europe truly diverse would enrich it and bring 'significant cultural contributions', reflecting a widespread belief among the ruling classes that multiculturalism and cultural, racial and religious diversity were morally positive things whatever the consequences. This is the unthinking assumption held by almost the entire political, media and education establishment. It is the diversity illusion.
Advocates of multiculturalism argue that immigrants prefer to stick together because of racism and the fear of racial violence, as well as the bonds of community. This is perfectly reasonable, but if this is the case, why not the same for natives too? If multiculturalism is right because minorities feel better among themselves, why have mass immigration at all, since it must obviously make everyone miserable? (And if diversity 'enriches' and strengthens, why integrate, since that will only reduce diversity?) All the arguments for multiculturalism—that people feel safer, more comfortable among people of the same group, and that they need their own cultural identity—are arguments against immigration, since European people must also feel the same. If people categorised as "white European" are not afforded that indulgence because they are a majority, do they attain it when they become a minority?

Paraphrased from Wikipedia of all things lel

Also Nullbolt chill out, asking for evidence is good no matter the situation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:10:43 am

I don't know, Loud, that sounds like a crude worldview you have there.

(http://i.imgur.com/lUPHtmg.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 10:17:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Also, LW - what do you think is the root cause of all this? Do you think the politicians pushing this through actually believe what they say, actually think that anti-immigration sentiment is racist? Or do you think it's greed? Outside influences?
I've seen it blamed on everything from the USA, to KGB brainwashing, to corporate greed, to psychopathy on the part of our leaders. I'd be interested in your opinion.

We're talking about several decades, several generations, hundreds of thousands of movers and shakers and hundreds of millions of supporters, all with their various reasons. I'm not sure what root cause is the cause, if there even is one. So I'll just blame it on putting jet fuel and lead in the water supply.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:19:32 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Wait, I thought no one died? I thought it was an empty, under-construction refugee center that was set alight.

I don't know, Covenant, I think questioning that is quite crude.

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Also, LW - what do you think is the root cause of all this? Do you think the politicians pushing this through actually believe what they say, actually think that anti-immigration sentiment is racist? Or do you think it's greed? Outside influences?

I've seen it blamed on everything from the USA, to KGB brainwashing, to corporate greed, to psychopathy on the part of our leaders. I'd be interested in your opinion.

I'd say it's an attempt at keeping labour costs down so that there's no need to increase wages or do automation.

If there are two people applying for a job but three places to be filled then those two people can demand high wages. If you've got a country full of the unemployed (at least according to statistics), then you can set your wages as low as you like because you can claim there are a thousand people to fill those slots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:19:47 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 10:17:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Also, LW - what do you think is the root cause of all this? Do you think the politicians pushing this through actually believe what they say, actually think that anti-immigration sentiment is racist? Or do you think it's greed? Outside influences?
I've seen it blamed on everything from the USA, to KGB brainwashing, to corporate greed, to psychopathy on the part of our leaders. I'd be interested in your opinion.

We're talking about several decades, several generations, hundreds of thousands of movers and shakers and hundreds of millions of supporters, all with their various reasons. I'm not sure what root cause is the cause, if there even is one. So I'll just blame it on putting jet fuel and lead in the water supply.

Sure, but we're not talking about the past. What, right now, do current leaders stand to gain by what seems to be exacerbating the situation?

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:19:32 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Wait, I thought no one died? I thought it was an empty, under-construction refugee center that was set alight.

I don't know, Covenant, I think questioning that is quite crude.

For your own good, quit it. It's neither funny, helpful, or even defiant. You're just making yourself look like an ass for no real benefit to your argument, so don't be surprised if you get stepped on by The Toad. That won't be censorship, that will just be stopping someone from being not-friendly-and-polite in a friendly-and-polite-EU-news thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:22:07 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:19:47 am

Sure, but we're not talking about the past. What, right now, do current leaders stand to gain by what seems to be exacerbating the situation?

Power and money. Always.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:28:24 am

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:22:07 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:19:47 am

Sure, but we're not talking about the past. What, right now, do current leaders stand to gain by what seems to be exacerbating the situation?

Power and money. Always.

That's not an argument, that's something used to get out of one unless you elaborate the hows and whys.

Power, in particular? Status quo is maintained - natives are pissed off, conflicts are not resolved, immigrants have no particular reason or perhaps even ability to vote for the politicians responsible.

Immigration tipping point scenario (natives become a minority, that is) - same but even worse, immigrants have their own politicians to support and empower, natives are still pissed off - even more.

Natives get pissed off scenario? Nationalists get support, current leaders are at best kicked out, if not, well, you know what happens to opposition in case of extreme far-right. Metabolic inviability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:31:49 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:28:24 am

That's not an argument, that's something used to get out of one unless you elaborate the hows and whys.

Power, in particular? Status quo is maintained - natives are pissed off, conflicts are not resolved, immigrants have no particular reason or perhaps even ability to vote for the politicians responsible.

Immigration tipping point scenario (natives become a minority, that is) - same but even worse, immigrants have their own politicians to support and empower, natives are still pissed off - even more.

Natives get pissed off scenario? Nationalists get support, current leaders are at best kicked out, if not, well, you know what happens to opposition in case of extreme far-right. Metabolic inviability.

There's two main threads of thought:
a) The government creates a threat narrative (real or imaginary) by causing a bad thing to happen which they can only solve by having more powers. Consolidation of power.
b) The economic suggestion I mentioned before regarding people applying to jobs. Consolidation of money.

Example of a):
1. Say that you need more workers.
2. Have mass immigration.
3. Mass immigration causes social and terror problems.
4. Problems are done over the internet.
5. "We require more government controls on the internet!"
6. Government controls, of course, solve nothing but they have more information and ability to police their citizens lives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on January 24, 2016, 10:36:16 am

Or it could be just good old short-sightedness combined with ego and stupidity. Maybe they honestly didn't expect it to get this bad, maybe they hoped for some karma points for their next election without thinking of the consequences.

In any case, the motivation doesn't really matter that much anymore. You don't need to figure out why someone decided to dump a septic tank into your living room as much as you need to figure out how to fix the problem as quickly as possible.

(and no, I'm not saying the immigrants are shit, I just couldn't think of a better analogy on the spot)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:36:45 am

Re: a) the main issue is that this is a suicidal strategy. You're more likely to give that very opportunity to your opposition - which, unlikely to be super fond of you - since your entire voting base can see you've fucked up and created the problem in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:39:42 am

Quote from: Jopax on January 24, 2016, 10:36:16 am

Or it could be just good old short-sightedness combined with ego and stupidity. Maybe they honestly didn't expect it to get this bad, maybe they hoped for some karma points for their next election without thinking of the consequences.

In any case, the motivation doesn't really matter that much anymore. You don't need to figure out why someone decided to dump a septic tank into your living room as much as you need to figure out how to fix the problem as quickly as possible.

(and no, I'm not saying the immigrants are shit, I just couldn't think of a better analogy on the spot)

Maybe. It's been too prolonged and too involved for me to believe it's just simple negligence, especially with the constant harassment in the past of anyone who questioned it and the endless media silences on the matter.

Quote from: scrdest on January 24, 2016, 10:36:45 am

Re: a) the main issue is that this is a suicidal strategy. You're more likely to give that very opportunity to your opposition - which, unlikely to be super fond of you - since your entire voting base can see you've fucked up and created the problem in the first place.

At least within the UK, this is a moot point. The opposition has exactly the same policies as whatever government is in power, just with different words to describe them.

Like Loud said, they're from the same schools, doing the same thing, meeting the same people.

In what world is this a fair and representative government?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on January 24, 2016, 10:47:32 am

It could also be a simple matter of kicking the can down the road for a far too long time without realising the implications of doing so. Kinda like climate change except more noticeable.

In any case, there's that saying or something and it goes kinda like : "Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity."

And I'd say it kinda applies here. Then again, we can't really know. So I'll go with my theory that the prevailing majority of humans are dumb animals trying to survive and it's what drives the world as we know it. Conspiracy theories are for a sligthly more perfect and orderly world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on January 24, 2016, 11:59:34 am

Conspiracy theories tend to ascribe far too much cunning and patience to people with little of either. If you point to a human problem you're likely pointing to a human problem, if you catch my drift.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Toady One on January 24, 2016, 01:00:00 pm

This is my 3rd valid report on nullBolt in the 11 days the account has been around.  You won't need to reply to nullBolt any longer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 01:00:37 pm

Thank you, I was just about to post another calm down folks post

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 01:11:02 pm

Quote from: Toady One on January 24, 2016, 01:00:00 pm

This is my 3rd valid report on nullBolt in the 11 days the account has been around.  You won't need to reply to nullBolt any longer.

Seemed pretty inevitable, nullBolt was in dire need of developing more modes of conversation than angry or infuriated

Just like Putin needs to stop dealing with his opposition by giving them polonium in tea vs ricin in umbrellas, both are pretty shit, at least the American administration didn't fill Snowden's shoes with killer bees

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:13:57 pm

In Cardiff, refugees are reporting being harassed in the streets, ever since they became identifyable in public. The company contracted by the government to provide housing for refugees in Cardiff, Clearsprings Ready Homes, made it mandatory for refugees to wear brightly coloured arm tags. If they take them off, they forfeit their right of getting their 3 meals every day. Refugees in the UK that are awaiting asylum are not allowed to work, and they do not get any spending money, so they are depending on food distribution to be fed. If at any time they take their tags off (which is irreversible), the company will report this to the government.
So far, authorities have not yet responded to complaints of harassment.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/davidsster_zpspwp0wsa3.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/davidsster_zpspwp0wsa3.png.html)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/asielzoekers-lastiggevallen-in-cardiff-wegens-verplichte-polsbandjes~a4231374/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/asielzoekers-lastiggevallen-in-cardiff-wegens-verplichte-polsbandjes~a4231374/)

Meanwhile, in Middleborough, a similar story has surfaced. Housing for immigrants there provided by Jomast, owned by billionaire Stuart Monk, all have red painted doors. This apparently has been ongoing since 2012. Refugees have been complaining that their homes are being targeted for harassment with rotten eggs, dog poop, and vandalised with stones. Refugees that tried to paint their door another colour, were confronted within days with a painter sent by the house owner, to repaint the doors red and inform them that any other colour 'goes against company policy'. A local politician compared the red doors to nazi practice.

The British Secretary of Internal Affairs has ordered an investigation into the matter now. Stuart Monk has responeded by announcing that all houses will get another colour door within half a year. The Jomast company is notorious for buying the worst quality housing in low income areas with the intent of making easy money.

Politician Mark Anderson also commented on the matter, when it got a lot of attention on UK social media. He said that while ofcourse he rejected violence and harassment, that there are a lot of British people on waiting lists for tenancy, that would love to have on of those red doored houses.
Some citizens of Middleborough commented on social media that they do not have red doors because they're refugees, but because red is the colour of the local football team.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/asielzoekers-in-middlesbrough-krijgen-huizen-met-rode-voordeur~a4229170/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/asielzoekers-in-middlesbrough-krijgen-huizen-met-rode-voordeur~a4229170/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 24, 2016, 02:36:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:13:57 pm

The company contracted by the government to provide housing for refugees in Cardiff, Clearsprings Ready Homes, made it mandatory for refugees to wear brightly coloured arm tags.

Quote

    I must not Godwin.
    Godwin is the mind-killer.
    Godwin is the little-Hitler that brings total Holocaust.
    I will face my Godwin.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the Godwin has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2016, 02:39:43 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on January 24, 2016, 02:36:19 pm

    Godwin is the little-Hitler that brings total Holocaust. 

even though my literary senses abhor such twisting of Herbert's prose, I couldn't help rofling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 24, 2016, 02:44:14 pm

Quote from: nullBolt on January 24, 2016, 10:19:32 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 24, 2016, 10:11:41 am

Wait, I thought no one died? I thought it was an empty, under-construction refugee center that was set alight.

I don't know, Covenant, I think questioning that is quite crude.

I'm not getting into this (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing debate but don't you try and use sarcasm to cover up the fact that the (https://i.imgur.com/YTRQYWF.png) rigged the building to explode and kill the (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing firemen who responded.

You want to get into (https://i.imgur.com/YTRQYWF.png)ism because you think you're not being listened to? Leave the (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing firemen alone. People who risk their lives on a near-daily basis to rescue people from horrible deaths? (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png) off with your "The silent majority wills the death of these heroic men and women" attitude.

EDIT: THIS POST IS UNDER RENOVATION WHILE I REMEMBER THAT THIS IS THE POLITE AND FRIENDLY THREAD

EDIT: POST HAS BEEN RENOVATED TO BE HAPPY FUN RESPECTFUL TIME

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2016, 02:45:43 pm

Quote from: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godwin%27s+law&defid=245168

There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.

Everyone seems to be calling everyone else a nazi these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 02:59:25 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 24, 2016, 02:44:14 pm

I'm not getting into this (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing debate but don't you try and use sarcasm to cover up the fact that the (https://i.imgur.com/YTRQYWF.png) rigged the building to explode and kill the (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing firemen who responded.

You want to get into (https://i.imgur.com/YTRQYWF.png)ism because you think you're not being listened to? Leave the (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing firemen alone. People who risk their lives on a near-daily basis to rescue people from horrible deaths? (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png) off with your "The silent majority wills the death of these heroic men and women" attitude.

EDIT: THIS POST IS UNDER RENOVATION WHILE I REMEMBER THAT THIS IS THE POLITE AND FRIENDLY THREAD

EDIT: POST HAS BEEN RENOVATED TO BE HAPPY FUN RESPECTFUL TIME

I like you style of shitposting, it is one to define our decade by

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 24, 2016, 03:58:06 pm

Some top-level shitposting. Can we frame it and hang it up or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 05:49:23 pm

It's certainly innovative. We should start a hall of fame for posts important to the forum's history.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on January 24, 2016, 06:20:33 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 05:49:23 pm

It's certainly innovative. We should start a hall of fame for posts important to the forum's history.

It would devolve into a circlejerk that would put Freud to shame, interspersed, of course, by both complaints about it and more shitposts. Do it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 25, 2016, 12:22:38 am

Quote from: Teneb on January 24, 2016, 06:20:33 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2016, 05:49:23 pm

It's certainly innovative. We should start a hall of fame for posts important to the forum's history.

It would devolve into a circlejerk that would put Freud to shame, interspersed, of course, by both complaints about it and more shitposts. Do it.

In the words of (most of) FG&RP (when it's shitposting):
aw yis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 25, 2016, 10:07:23 am

O.o

Armbands reminiscent of Nazi practices (wouldn't an ID card have been better?), painting doors red.... Europe is repeatedly Godwinning itself isn't it......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2016, 02:24:48 pm

They were wristbands, not armbands, and are being replaced with photo ID.

Honestly we're at the point now where you can give someone food, housing and residency at your expense and be called a nazi for it. There's just no (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing gratitude these days, brb I'm Syrianing into Germany to be oppressed lol

Finland too cold and boring for refugees fleeing warmth and boredom (http://news.yahoo.com/finlands-no-good-disappointed-migrants-turn-back-152042061.html)

dude Finns LMAO

Also interestingly is a Dutch town was due to have 1,500 immigrants put there becuz, the Dutch people said no pls and the Dutch politicians were all yes pls so the Dutch people just attacked the bureaucrats and now no immigrants very opposite of quite tolerancy (https://archive.is/Hazuk)

Rivers of blood, who's gonna live, the Earth is tired of human kind and I think this world, is gonna wash up in hell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvHAhK8J7k)


Also in news that has fuck all to do with immigrants flooding my news channels, North sea gas firms need help (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/12109752/North-Sea-firms-call-for-crucial-Government-action-to-save-jobs.html) to stay afloat (financially, not literally they don't actually float) amidst Saudi Salman slapping

FRANCE IN ECONOMIC EMERGENCY, EVERYBODY STAY CALM AND GRAB YOUR GUILLOTINES, BUY YOUR KEBABGUETTES BEFORE THEY COST A BRILLION EUROMONEY (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35343611)

Fallout from Germoney having a lack of Germoney (http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/germany-the-eurozones-economic-engine-is-sputtering-as-its-biggest-companies-struggle)

Reminder to stay calm because death will be swift

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 25, 2016, 03:19:51 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2016, 02:24:48 pm

Also interestingly is a Dutch town was due to have 1,500 immigrants put there becuz, the Dutch people said no pls and the Dutch politicians were all yes pls so the Dutch people just attacked the bureaucrats and now no immigrants very opposite of quite tolerancy (https://archive.is/Hazuk)

Police posted pictures of the rioters online, and on tv, with blurred out faces. They are giving any rioter an ultimatum of a few days to turn themselves in, or their faces will be broadcast around the country without blurring. So far, a handful of rioters have turned themselves in to the police.
The matter is being taken quite seriously by the police.

But yeah, the decision of Geldermalsen council to cancel the refugee center after the riots was very, very stupid. I'm sure there's some hard slapping on wrists with wooden canes being done now by their political seniors. It's indeed very un-Dutch to give in to some hooligans like that.

Part of the problem is that our government isn't only housing refugees in big towns or cities, they also stupidly keep picking smaller communities, and place a mega refugee center there which houses more refugees than there are local inhabitants. That overwhelms people and heats up sentiments. Add to that the organising of flashmobs to join in on any protests through social media, by non local extreme-right groups, and you have a recipe for riots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2016, 03:22:52 pm

Weren't hooligans, was loads of em, oldies and women too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 25, 2016, 03:25:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2016, 02:24:48 pm

Finland too cold and boring for refugees fleeing warmth and boredom (http://news.yahoo.com/finlands-no-good-disappointed-migrants-turn-back-152042061.html)
dude Finns LMAO

"The gak is expensive, the beer tastes bad, and the nearest affordable hookers are in Tallinn, for Allah's sake! This isn't a country for a proper Muslim! Fuck you guys, I'm going to Mexico."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 25, 2016, 06:12:55 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 25, 2016, 06:08:21 pm

...could we just send them to Mexico? I mean, what would happen as a result?

They'd probably get murdered by the Cartels.....

Not to mention the GOP having a panic fit....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on January 25, 2016, 09:54:40 pm

Someone suggest that to Trump, quick! Phrase it as using our enemies (ISIS) to destroy our enemies (cartels).  :P

e:

Quote

"I haven't seen any disturbances, but I don't know why they come here when even our own people leave this town," Matti Alaviuhkola said at his shoe repair shop on the main street.

(http://i.imgur.com/PlYKVie.jpg)
Finnish costume quality a perfect 5/7.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 25, 2016, 10:03:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2016, 02:24:48 pm

They were wristbands, not armbands, and are being replaced with photo ID.

Honestly we're at the point now where you can give someone food, housing and residency at your expense and be called a nazi for it. There's just no (https://i.imgur.com/fNVxX6L.png)ing gratitude these days, brb I'm Syrianing into Germany to be oppressed lol

Finland too cold and boring for refugees fleeing warmth and boredom (http://news.yahoo.com/finlands-no-good-disappointed-migrants-turn-back-152042061.html)

dude Finns LMAO

Also interestingly is a Dutch town was due to have 1,500 immigrants put there becuz, the Dutch people said no pls and the Dutch politicians were all yes pls so the Dutch people just attacked the bureaucrats and now no immigrants very opposite of quite tolerancy (https://archive.is/Hazuk)

Rivers of blood, who's gonna live, the Earth is tired of human kind and I think this world, is gonna wash up in hell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvHAhK8J7k)


Also in news that has fuck all to do with immigrants flooding my news channels, North sea gas firms need help (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/12109752/North-Sea-firms-call-for-crucial-Government-action-to-save-jobs.html) to stay afloat (financially, not literally they don't actually float) amidst Saudi Salman slapping

FRANCE IN ECONOMIC EMERGENCY, EVERYBODY STAY CALM AND GRAB YOUR GUILLOTINES, BUY YOUR KEBABGUETTES BEFORE THEY COST A BRILLION EUROMONEY (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35343611)

Fallout from Germoney having a lack of Germoney (http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/germany-the-eurozones-economic-engine-is-sputtering-as-its-biggest-companies-struggle)

Reminder to stay calm because death will be swift

I'm not that good at shitposting, but I'll try.

*spooky voice*

Doom! DOOOOOOOOOM! DOOM I SAY!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 25, 2016, 10:07:58 pm

we're all gonna die

everybody panic

or as I said before

Quote from: TheDarkStar on January 22, 2016, 10:03:55 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on January 22, 2016, 09:36:17 pm

Everybody flail your arms about and panic!

Ok.

*Flails arms*
*Takes deep breath*
*Opens mouth*

Spoiler: Warning: Wall of PANIC (click to show/hide)

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 02:59:41 am

DON'T PANIC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:03:23 am

A 22 year old woman who worked at a refugee center for unaccompanied minors between ages of 14 and 17,  was stabbed to death in Sweden.
A 15 year old refugee from Libanon has been arrested. Police cannot make any statements yet about what happened.
The Swedish prime minister called it a 'terrible crime', and spoke of the fear amongst Swedes that these things will happen again.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072)

Dunno, 10 years ago prime ministers would be more careful with statements. They'd say something like 'a terrible tragedy', keeping the possibility open that the kid might have stabbed in self defense, or anger about sexual abuse. Basically the prime minister is breaking the law, because a person is innocent until convicted. He shouldn't call it a crime before a judge has done so.

And before someone calls me a terrorist murderer apologist, the only thing I defend here is the Constitutional State, from threats foreign and domestic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2016, 05:20:19 am

It is terrifying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 05:32:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:03:23 am

A 22 year old woman who worked at a refugee center for unaccompanied minors between ages of 14 and 17,  was stabbed to death in Sweden.
A 15 year old refugee from Libanon has been arrested. Police cannot make any statements yet about what happened.
The Swedish prime minister called it a 'terrible crime', and spoke of the fear amongst Swedes that these things will happen again.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072)

Dunno, 10 years ago prime ministers would be more careful with statements. They'd say something like 'a terrible tragedy', keeping the possibility open that the kid might have stabbed in self defense, or anger about sexual abuse. Basically the prime minister is breaking the law, because a person is innocent until convicted. He shouldn't call it a crime before a judge has done so.

And before someone calls me a terrorist murderer apologist, the only thing I defend here is the Constitutional State, from threats foreign and domestic.

Isn't it kinda doing what you're accusing the PM of? Except it's presuming the victim guilty unless found innocent. Optimally, we could presume both are innocent until proven, but people exceedingly rarely accidentally fatally stab someone before having to be taken down by other people on the scene.

I'm rather curious, too, how few repetitions it will take before the victim becomes a native Swede with over 9000 years of Viking ancestry in some more partisan reports on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:35:28 am

In other news, Dutch police force has had it's mandate expanded. A selection of 150 patrol officers assigned to patrol shopping malls and other vulnerable public places will henceforth be armed with machineguns instead of pistols. Up until now this was not allowed by law. Only special intervention teams were allowed heavy weapons.

The team will only be used with discretion, in cases of heightened threat levels, and will always require permission of the mayor, DA and police department (called 'the safety triangle'). So it's not like, from now on, you'll see machineguns at every supermarket.
The new machine gun brigade will not be used in any aggressive role, their role is to be solely protective. Any actual intervention will still be done by the special intervention team that already exists.

The justice department will also reinforce it's team of protective snipers and heavy weapons guards used for protective custodies and for guarding courthouses, with another 150 men, before the end of 2016.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 26, 2016, 05:39:27 am

Why even call it a tragedy? i think we should keep the possibility open that the woman might had a terminal illness and requested the chivalrous young man to sacrifice his freedom by ending her suffering. while the police investigate if there was a crime (clearly a waste of time), a special committee should investigate if he deserves a nobility title to be granted by the king of Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:40:01 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 05:32:07 am

Isn't it kinda doing what you're accusing the PM of? Except it's presuming the victim guilty unless found innocent. Optimally, we could presume both are innocent until proven, but people exceedingly rarely accidentally fatally stab someone before having to be taken down by other people on the scene.

Not really, I was just giving some examples. Maybe I should have given more examples, like, 'maybe the kid had a PTSS induced panic attack/flashback (so he was not legally accountable for his actions, because psychiatrically ill)', or 'maybe the kid didn't do it and just got scapegoated', 'maybe etc'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 05:43:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:40:01 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 05:32:07 am

Isn't it kinda doing what you're accusing the PM of? Except it's presuming the victim guilty unless found innocent. Optimally, we could presume both are innocent until proven, but people exceedingly rarely accidentally fatally stab someone before having to be taken down by other people on the scene.

Not really, I was just giving some examples. Maybe I should have given more examples, like, 'maybe the kid had a PTSS induced panic attack/flashback (so he was not legally accountable for his actions, because psychiatrically ill)', or 'maybe the kid didn't do it and just got scapegoated', 'maybe etc'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that it's still a crime, it just means you aren't prosecuted for it because of reasons. And if he got scapegoated or anything like that, then it's still a crime, just not by that particular perpetrator.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:44:42 am

Quote from: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 05:43:02 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that it's still a crime, it just means you aren't prosecuted for it because of reasons. And if he got scapegoated or anything like that, then it's still a crime, just not by that particular perpetrator.

AFAIK a death caused by a person who cannot be held accountable because of psychiatric condition is not a crime, but an accident.

And the point is not that there are many outcomes that could be called a crime, the point is that there exist examples where the outcome cannot be called a crime. A person in the highest place of national authority, like the prime minister, should know that and be more careful with what he says. What he did here was showing disrespect for the Trias Politica, and that is not fitting with his examplary societal function.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2016, 05:54:59 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:44:42 am

AFAIK a death caused by a person who cannot be held accountable because of psychiatric condition is not a crime, but an accident.

No
It just means the punishment is mitigated or wavered in lieu of compulsory psychiatric help and sectioning

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:44:42 am

And the point is not that there are many outcomes that could be called a crime, the point is that there exist examples where the outcome cannot be called a crime. A person in the highest place of national authority, like the prime minister, should know that and be more careful with what he says. What he did here was showing disrespect for the Trias Politica, and that is not fitting with his examplary societal function.

A 22 year old woman was just stabbed to death, what happened there was no great justice. Just look at Obama stepping in to talk about black Americans getting shot, he is fitting his exemplary societal function by not being a bystander to his own country's injustice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 26, 2016, 06:24:32 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 05:03:23 am

A 22 year old woman who worked at a refugee center for unaccompanied minors between ages of 14 and 17,  was stabbed to death in Sweden.
A 15 year old refugee from Libanon has been arrested. Police cannot make any statements yet about what happened.
The Swedish prime minister called it a 'terrible crime', and spoke of the fear amongst Swedes that these things will happen again.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406072)

Dunno, 10 years ago prime ministers would be more careful with statements. They'd say something like 'a terrible tragedy', keeping the possibility open that the kid might have stabbed in self defense, or anger about sexual abuse. Basically the prime minister is breaking the law, because a person is innocent until convicted. He shouldn't call it a crime before a judge has done so.

And before someone calls me a terrorist murderer apologist, the only thing I defend here is the Constitutional State, from threats foreign and domestic.

I think you should read up on Swedish laws before you call the Swedish state minister a criminal for making a somewhat preclusive statement on a crime he likely has access to a whole lot more information about than you do.

Nevermind that what he said is really tame and standard and painting it as "threatening the constitutional state and the principle of innocence" is completely inflating the situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 26, 2016, 07:15:29 am

Yeah - as far as I know, presumption of innocence only applies to the courts. You or I - or the Swedish PM or king or whoever - are perfectly free to voice their opinion that it indeed was a crime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 10:57:07 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 26, 2016, 07:15:29 am

You or I - or the Swedish PM or king or whoever - are perfectly free to voice their opinion that it indeed was a crime.

You and I, yes we are perfectly free to voice that opinion. A prime minister however, is not, for that violates the separation of powers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 26, 2016, 11:49:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2016, 10:57:07 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 26, 2016, 07:15:29 am

You or I - or the Swedish PM or king or whoever - are perfectly free to voice their opinion that it indeed was a crime.

You and I, yes we are perfectly free to voice that opinion. A prime minister however, is not, for that violates the separation of powers.

That's only if he tried to assert his statement as having legal powers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 26, 2016, 12:42:18 pm

It's generally bad form. There's a reason the media constantly uses "allegedly". These things can interfere with a clean trial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on January 26, 2016, 12:43:00 pm

Whoops, double post

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 26, 2016, 12:56:56 pm

A "clean trial" would be impossible anyway, there's too much pro-migration banter in Yurop for a clean trial against a member of the Master Immigration Race.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 01:07:57 pm

Quote from: wobbly on January 26, 2016, 12:42:18 pm

It's generally bad form. There's a reason the media constantly uses "allegedly". These things can interfere with a clean trial.

Given this is *media* we're talking about, I suspect it's more related to something that begins with 'L' and rhymes with 'lawsuit'.

Things tend to rhyme with themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 26, 2016, 01:58:36 pm

Speaking of Denmark and economic migrants, Denmark passes a bill allowing seizure of immigrant assets to cover housing/food costs. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35406436)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 26, 2016, 03:33:08 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 26, 2016, 01:54:41 pm

A 17-year old Danish girl will likely be charged with a crime after using pepper spray to defend herself from sexual assault, according to a local police spokesman. (http://www.thelocal.dk/20160126/danish-teen-fought-off-her-attacker-with-pepper-spray-now-shell-face-fine)

This is true, but not for the reason that article implies. Pepper spray is illegal for private citizens in Denmark, at least if you're not a policeman. It's illegal or tightly controlled in a lot of European countries, actually. You can pick it up at a lot of convenience stores around here though. Make of that what you will.

Edit: I know it says that in the article, but legalizing pepper spray isn't the point the article is making.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 26, 2016, 04:24:20 pm

well duh, pepperspray is illegal in certain parts of Europe.

If defend yourself by shooting an assailant with a gun you don't just get a free pass on gun possession.

I have no idea however why the guy wasn't charged with sexual assault.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2016, 05:24:04 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 26, 2016, 04:24:20 pm

I have no idea however why the guy wasn't charged with sexual assault.

In the same way that foreign ambassadors get diplomatic immunity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 26, 2016, 05:49:50 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 26, 2016, 04:24:20 pm

I have no idea however why the guy wasn't charged with sexual assault.

It's because he fled the scene and they didn't catch him. That this minor story is making the news shows an effect the current hysteria is having on the media, since it would otherwise go unreported and ignored if there wasn't implied relevance to the immigration crisis (which from the article it looks like there isn't any, only indication that the guy was even foreign was that he spoke English).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 27, 2016, 04:27:56 am

The French minister of Justice, Christiane Taubira, has resigned, out of protest.
She ethically disagrees with the change to the French Constitution which makes it possible to take away the French nationality from people who have been convicted for terrorist activities.
Her parting words were "Ethics and Justice will eventually prevail", and twittered "sometimes, leaving is an act of resistance."

She will be replaced by Jean-Jacques Urvoas. In his previous assignment, Urvoas was the chairman of the Law commission of the French house of commons.
As such, he has had a lot of say in the creation of amendments to the Constitution.
A plan with Constitutional amendments will be presented today. The exact contents are not yet known, but it is expected that a lot of special measures put in place when France entered national state of emergency, after the Paris attacks, will become permanent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 27, 2016, 07:16:24 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on January 26, 2016, 05:49:50 pm

I'm sure the media is loving this controversy. "What, a single attempted assault in Europe can be a worldwide headline right now? Let's take that free money!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 27, 2016, 09:40:00 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 27, 2016, 04:27:56 am

A plan with Constitutional amendments will be presented today. The exact contents are not yet known, but it is expected that a lot of special measures put in place when France entered national state of emergency, after the Paris attacks, will become permanent.

To be fair the French have a habit of reworking their whole constitution every few decades.  Which Republic are those guys on, the Fifth?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 27, 2016, 05:29:47 pm

French don't have any constitution. They drink too much wine and smoke too much heavy tobacco for that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 27, 2016, 08:00:52 pm

New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman wrote a plea to the Obama administration, to "double their efforts to restrain the refugee crisis in the middle east, before it turns from being a giant humanitarian problem into a giant geostrategical problem for the USA's closest ally, The European Union.
He believes that the US should create a safe zone in Syria, where refugees can seek shelter, to prevent a refugee disaster.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/waarom-amerika-zich-zorgen-moet-maken-om-de-vluchtelingencrisis~a4233426/
sadly paywall for full article

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 27, 2016, 10:04:10 pm

Oh yeah that reminds me

What do people think of implementing a Roman style migrant/citizenship for migrants, particularly single migrants? You know, serve in the military, join up with the other dudes in the military, get mixed in with members of country who are already that culture, learn about how to fight, and go back down and liberate Syria.

I mean, families and single mothers and the like shouldn't have to, but they aren't usually the problems, as far as I can tel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 04:14:58 am

The Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte, and the leader of the labour party Diederik Samsom, have been working on a new refugee plan since december.
Being the chairman of the EU, our prime minister has used his connections there to involve civil servants from various european countries, which are to elaborate on the practical and legal aspects.

With their new plan, they want to start sending every refugee that crosses the mediterranean back with ferries, and put them on land in Turkey. In exchange, 150- to 250 thousand refugees will be allowed, yearly, to legally immigrate to the EU, from Turkey's refugee camps.
They expect the plan to start taking effect in march / april of this year.

One thing that still stands in the way of the plan legally, is the fact that Turkey is not completely considered a 'safe country', which disallows sending refugees back there according to UN guidelines . However, according to Samsom, Turkey is very close to getting the 'safe country' status.

The immigrants that will be allowed in legally, will be divided over those countries that are willing to take them in, since it seems impossible to reach any agreements on forcibly dividing the immigrants equally over all EU member states. Those states however, that won't take in any immigrants, will need to pay money to the countries that do, to share the burden.

Samson expects about 10 countries to be willing to take in immigrants, including Germany, Sweden, France, Austria, Spain, and Portugal. Samsom has had intensive contacts with those countries, while our prime minister has been using his position as prime minister to confer the idea to his colleagues.

Samsom says, that even if only 10 member states want to accept refugees, these countries will effectively see much less migrants than they are seeing now.
For our own country, he thinks the plan will reduce incoming migrants from 58000 in 2015, to 20-30 thousand in 2016.

As a main reason for the plan, he states that the long term plans made before are impossible, because the refugee crisis does not wait for any long term plans, and if we get as many refugees in 2016 as we did last year, the welfare state systems in Europe will collapse.

Internally, there's some critique on Samsom. Last year, the liberal party suggested that Europe should send back all refugees that cross the mediterrenean. Back then, Samsom called this "inacceptable, and a violation of our humanitarian obligations". However, when looking at the gigantic numbers of refugees that came in in just a year, and since he visited human trafficking sites in Turkey, and descibed what he saw there as "uncontrollable", he has made a 180, and now states that "refugees deserve a safe haven, but our own citizens deserve that we uphold our welfare state".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/nederland-wil-vluchtelingen-per-kerende-veerboot-terugsturen-naar-turkije~a4233530/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ghazkull on January 28, 2016, 05:01:55 am

seems more reasonable.

Rolepgeek, i don't think that really works out since most of those refugees left because they DON'T want to fight. 'sides if i look at the state of the german military they might as well go back immediately. The Roman System worked more or less because rome was constantly at war and extreme war situations breed comraderie...sitting in a barracks and cleaning your tank for the umpteenth time does not...or not as much.

Though the idea is generally good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2016, 05:44:50 am

Also because they had lots recently conquered and de-settled land to re-settle veterans on.

The problem over here is that there's just too many immigrants at once for integration to be possible. I don't think "rome" style army business would change that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 28, 2016, 07:03:33 am

So both the UK and France are leaning towards being police states?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Bouchart on January 28, 2016, 09:33:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 28, 2016, 07:30:59 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on January 28, 2016, 07:03:33 am

So both the UK and France are leaning towards being police states?

If anywhere's in danger of becoming a police state, it's Germany. Chancellor Merkel was the one caught on mic telling Mark Zuckerberg to censor anti-migration sentiment on Facebook, right? And it's Germany arresting people and banning internet platforms for spreading "racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-Islamic content'. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-bans-internet-platform-detains-36542098') Not that I support racism, homophobia, etc, but I'm wary of censoring anything short of an outright direct call to violence or destruction.

The idea of a billionaire jew conspiring with the German government to oppress ordinary German citizens isn't going to go over well in some circles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2016, 09:36:13 am

Quote from: Bouchart on January 28, 2016, 09:33:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 28, 2016, 07:30:59 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on January 28, 2016, 07:03:33 am

So both the UK and France are leaning towards being police states?

If anywhere's in danger of becoming a police state, it's Germany. Chancellor Merkel was the one caught on mic telling Mark Zuckerberg to censor anti-migration sentiment on Facebook, right? And it's Germany arresting people and banning internet platforms for spreading "racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-Islamic content'. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-bans-internet-platform-detains-36542098') Not that I support racism, homophobia, etc, but I'm wary of censoring anything short of an outright direct call to violence or destruction.

The idea of a billionaire jew conspiring with the German government to oppress ordinary German citizens isn't going to go over well in some circles.

Zuckerberg is Jewish? hm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 28, 2016, 10:14:46 am

Quote

Anyway, that all said, I wouldn't describe Germany as a police state. But I would say it's closer to getting there than the two countries you mentioned.

There are no police states in EU but the direction is right there. It is the main reason why I don't want Ukraine to become more "European"

I value personal freedom to much to go toward stuff like

1)Slave, hire women\ethnic minorities\sexual oriental minorities\whatever to work at your business according to the quote written in the law. What? Rights to manage your own private property? It is a funny nonsense. Shut up!
2) Your post something in internet that we dislike? Freedom of Speech, pfff? To the prison
3) You dare to have a knife, pepper spray, tazer or, God forbid, real weapon to defend your life\property\dignity? Who said you can defend yourself even with your fists? To the prison.
4) What do you mean that you are not a bisexual? You deny someone sex based on their gender? To the prison, you, discriminating bastard.

and so on

You say it is exaggeration? I say it is the future. It is the direction where EU-style "liberal" democracy is going. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 28, 2016, 11:10:29 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on January 28, 2016, 10:14:46 am

Quote

Anyway, that all said, I wouldn't describe Germany as a police state. But I would say it's closer to getting there than the two countries you mentioned.

There are no police states in EU but the direction is right there. It is the main reason why I don't want Ukraine to become more "European"

I value personal freedom to much to go toward stuff like

1)Slave, hire women\ethnic minorities\sexual oriental minorities\whatever to work at your business according to the quote written in the law. What? Rights to manage your own private property? It is a funny nonsense. Shut up!
2) Your post something in internet that we dislike? Freedom of Speech, pfff? To the prison
3) You dare to have a knife, pepper spray, tazer or, God forbid, real weapon to defend your life\property\dignity? Who said you can defend yourself even with your fists? To the prison.
4) What do you mean that you are not a bisexual? You deny someone sex based on their gender? To the prison, you, discriminating bastard.

and so on

You say it is exaggeration? I say it is the future. It is the direction where EU-style "liberal" democracy is going.

By 2050, the United American Empire and the European-North-African Green Zone will be in Cold War with each other, the God-king Donald I sending Conservative Crime Squads to blow up the Reichffel tower while Panleader Xyrosa funds the Liberal Crime squad in their ongoing attempt to force absolute gun control by shooting dead anyone who disagrees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 01:35:37 pm

A 28 year old European citizen was arrested today when trying to check into the hotel New York, in Disneyland Paris. The man resisted being arrested did not resist arrest after metaldetectors went off. His female companion fled, and has not yet been found. In the man's briefcase, two firearms, ammunition, and a Quran were found. The man claims to have carried the firearms for his own safety and protection (uhuh, those nagging kids in line for the rollercoaster are such a big threat indeed).

During the incident, Disneyland Paris has remained open to visitors. A spokesman for the amusement park said that they will continue to cooperate closely with the authorities to ensure their visitors' safety.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/reizen/gewapende-man-opgepakt-in-disneyland-parijs-metgezel-nog-voortvluchtig~a4234110/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/reizen/gewapende-man-opgepakt-in-disneyland-parijs-metgezel-nog-voortvluchtig~a4234110/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2016, 01:41:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 01:35:37 pm

A 28 year old European citizen was arrested today when trying to check into the hotel New York, in Disneyland Paris. The man resisted being arrested after metaldetectors went off. His female companion fled, and has not yet been found. In the man's briefcase, two firearms, and a Quran were found. The man claims to have carried the firearms for his own safety and protection (uhuh, those nagging kids in line for the rollercoster are such a big threat indeed).

During the incident, Disneyland Paris has remained open to visitors. A spokesman for the amusement park said that they will continue to cooperate closely with the authorities to ensure their visitors' safety.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/reizen/gewapende-man-opgepakt-in-disneyland-parijs-metgezel-nog-voortvluchtig~a4234110/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/reizen/gewapende-man-opgepakt-in-disneyland-parijs-metgezel-nog-voortvluchtig~a4234110/)

Yeah, the news here have mentioned that as well...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 01:43:37 pm

Scary. They be coming for our children.

I forgot to mention that also today, many primary and high schools in the Amsterdam (3 schools), Paris (5 schools), and the UK (at least 18 schools) were evacuated after police forces received bomb threats. No actual bombs were found. The Dutch police does not want to comment yet, the UK police says it was a coordinated action, and the Paris police has evacuated children to a safe location and has deployed extra armed forces to protect schools.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/bommeldingen-scholen-amsterdam-groot-brittannie-en-parijs~a4234006/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/bommeldingen-scholen-amsterdam-groot-brittannie-en-parijs~a4234006/)

looks like someone has read How To Disrupt A Society Through Fear 101. I wonder how many parents are going to keep their kids from going to school now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 28, 2016, 05:28:19 pm

If the guy had managed a rampage in Disneyland Paris, that might have seriously killed Disneyland Paris.


YOU CAN TAKE OUR HEADS BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE OUR DISNEYLAND

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 07:20:47 pm

moved for being in the wrong thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 28, 2016, 07:22:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 07:20:47 pm

I just noticed that one of my dwarven children is reciting poetry to other children. They're not even in the tavern, they're in their parent's bedroom.

Are the dwarves immigrants because otherwise we're not really bothered m8.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 07:28:46 pm

Oops wrong thread let me move that to what's going on in your fort now hehe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 28, 2016, 07:29:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 28, 2016, 07:28:46 pm

Oops wrong thread let me move that to what's going on in your fort now hehe

D'oh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 29, 2016, 06:58:31 am

So somebody threw a grenade at a refugee housing center in South-West Germany. (http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/villingen-schwenningen-fluechtlingsunterkunft-anschlag-handgranate) Anyone wanna call this 'self-defence'?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2016, 07:02:22 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 29, 2016, 06:58:31 am

So somebody threw a grenade at a refugee housing center in South-West Germany. (http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/villingen-schwenningen-fluechtlingsunterkunft-anschlag-handgranate) Anyone wanna call this 'self-defence'?

That is horrible. I hope they catch the people who did that and put them in psych ward for life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2016, 07:05:17 am

Just saying Helgo, I warned you bro this was going to turn into civil war

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 29, 2016, 07:07:24 am

This is starting to look worse and worse...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2016, 07:28:45 am

Translation of the german article:

Unknown assailants throw handgrenade at refugee shelter
In Baden-Württemberg, unknown assailants have thrown a  live handgrenade at an inhabited first-intake refugee shelter. The weapon did not explode, the police has detonated it.

In Villingen-Schwenningen, in Baden-Württemberg, unknown perpetrators have thrown a handgrenade at a first-intake refugee shelter. The attempted assault failed, because the explosive charge did not detonate. No one was hurt. 170 people are housed in the building.
The police reports that a security guard heard a noise at 1:15am. This was when the weapon hit a concrete flooring in the inner courtyard of the shelter, a former French militia barracks situated in a somewhat secluded area.

When asked, police did not want to confirm reports of the grenade's pin being pulled, which arms the device. The reason they gave for that was the fact that so far, the pin has not been found.

After finding the grenade, the police cordoned off the area. 20 residents had to leave their appartments for multiple hours. A bomb disarming unit from the national police unit, department Baden-Württemberg was dispatched and detonated the grenade with a controlled explosion. At this moment, officers are searching the area for debris. Specialists are to investigate the remains of the weapon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2016, 07:43:54 am

Nah Germans spontaneously die from old age and replace themselves with immigration, and I'd say at there has never been a point in history where Germany's not been a danger to Yurop

In actual war news Royal Navy needs engine replacements because they keep breaking down (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341)

Unrelated but Russia: three schoolboys boiled to death after falling into hot sewer (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/three-schoolboys-boiled-death-after-7267278)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ghazkull on January 29, 2016, 08:29:07 am

@Antioch: don't feed the trolls. they only get bolder.

Uhm what about right now Loud Whispers? We aren't exactly a threat to europe as far as i can see.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 29, 2016, 08:47:21 am

In other news: Erdogan wants to give himself even more power. There is no doubt that Turkey IS rapidly descending into a dictatorship


http://aranews.net/2016/01/17969/

http://fd.nl/economie-politiek/1137162/erdogan-wil-nieuwe-grondwet-met-presidentieel-stelsel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 29, 2016, 09:58:10 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 29, 2016, 08:52:09 am

Apparently a spokesman for Sweden’s Minister for Home affairs Anders Ygeman has said it will likely take several years to deport failed asylum seekers, and that they'll receive free housing and financial aid (paid for by the taxpayer, naturally) until they go. I'm waiting for a slightly more reliable source to pick this up (if it will, it's not exactly something they're going to trumpet, is it?), but it sounds entirely plausible. Sweden Yes, after all.

Assuming you're referring to Ygeman's (who is the minister of the Within-Realm, by the way) statement that Sweden is probably (going by statistic experience) going to decline asylum to about 80 000 of the applicants, and assuming that that timeframe is correctly extrapolated from that number, it's been on the news here (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dagens-industri-uppemot-80000-avvisas-fran-sverige/) for the last couple of days (http://www.svtplay.se/klipp/6132615/ygeman-uppemot-80-000-asylsokande-kan-avvisas).

Meanwhile in another part of Sweden 19 asylum seeking youth rioted because one of them was not allowed to go and buy candy late in the evening (http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/smaland/brak-pa-boende-i-emmaboda). The staff had to lock themselves inside a room as the poor refugees destroyed the home.

Lastly in Swedish news the main government part and traditionally Sweden's largest party, the Social Democrats, have gone under 25% support (http://www.svd.se/svd-sifo-m-storsta-parti--bottenrekord-for-s) and are at the lowest percentage since Sifo (Sweden's foremost polling business) started keeping statistics on voter support in 1967.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 29, 2016, 10:00:09 am

Blech, Google Translate is useless...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 29, 2016, 11:36:54 am

About 18-19%, yeah. The grey column is the result of their December poll, and the coloured one their freshest January poll. Their percentage of the last election was 12.86%.

For comparison, in the election the Social Democrats got 31,01%, and are now at 23%.
The Moderates got 23,33% and are now the biggest party at 25%.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2016, 11:51:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on January 29, 2016, 08:17:47 am

1946?

Dispersal and regrouping phase

Quote from: Antioch on January 29, 2016, 08:47:21 am

In other news: Erdogan wants to give himself even more power. There is no doubt that Turkey IS rapidly descending into a dictatorship
http://aranews.net/2016/01/17969/
http://fd.nl/economie-politiek/1137162/erdogan-wil-nieuwe-grondwet-met-presidentieel-stelsel

Nah it'll be fine, Turks themselves are fighting hard to keep their Republic

Quote from: Ghazkull on January 29, 2016, 08:29:07 am

Uhm what about right now Loud Whispers? We aren't exactly a threat to europe as far as i can see.

Germany spends more money trying to neutralize the likes of Poland and Britain than they do Russia, or Russia to us, has placed all of Europe outside of the Isles, Norway and Switzerland under its economic yoke, and has grown fond of taking away everyone's sovereignty and democracy because Germany says so, is clambering its aryan tentacles into moist Franco-British armed forces in a desperate effort to get more non-Germans to die fighting non-Germans on behalf of non-Germans so they can fuck Germans too with the same tentacles...

No, Germany must be stopped, before they turn everywhere into Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Toady One on January 29, 2016, 01:44:10 pm

Bouchart is out, just like nullBolt.  If you can't discuss this topic without encouraging specific acts of murder, you should move on to other threads.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 29, 2016, 01:45:37 pm

Yikes.  That's two bans from stuff in this thread now...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 29, 2016, 01:47:05 pm

I'm pretty sure it was not a joke.
All the same, it seems a bit much...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Toady One on January 29, 2016, 01:49:16 pm

He had a warning for antisemitism in 2012, and was going on about jews and white germans along with his refugee grenade thing.  Whether or not it is shit-posting is for some Poe's law analyst to decide on some place that isn't this forum, but those kind of posts won't fly here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 29, 2016, 01:51:11 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 29, 2016, 01:49:55 pm

Was not aware of the earlier warning.

Ditto.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2016, 01:56:32 pm

Lol this whole damn mess is bringing out the worse of everyone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 29, 2016, 02:05:57 pm

If throwing dud grenades is the worst our local xenophobes can manage, I'm sorta relieved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2016, 02:43:58 pm

Thanks Toady, too bad it was again nescessary to interfere. Now let's hope we can have a friendly and polite news sharing discussion here for a while without a need for warnings or bans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 29, 2016, 03:04:26 pm

Quote from: Toady One on January 29, 2016, 01:44:10 pm

Bouchart is out, just like nullBolt.  If you can't discuss this topic without encouraging specific acts of murder, you should move on to other threads.

Holy Shit... Bouchart was actually... Scott Adams?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 29, 2016, 03:13:47 pm

Damn, I liked Bouchart. He will be missed.

---

In non-refugee related news, The EU (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/are-multinationals-starting-to-lose-the-tax-battle.html) announced measures yesterday intended to combat tax evasion by multinational corporations. The measures seem to have come about mostly because of the abuses of tech companies, but others will be affected by the changes as well. I honestly couldn't be happier, they siphon a lot of money out of a lot of the places they do business in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2016, 03:29:49 pm

Quote from: Baffler on January 29, 2016, 03:13:47 pm

Damn, I liked Bouchart. He will be missed.

---

In non-refugee related news, The EU (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/29/are-multinationals-starting-to-lose-the-tax-battle.html) announced measures yesterday intended to combat tax evasion by multinational corporations. The measures seem to have come about mostly because of the abuses of tech companies, but others will be affected by the changes as well. I honestly couldn't be happier, they siphon a lot of money out of a lot of the places they do business in.

It is a step in the right direction, albeit a mild one. Tax evasion will still be profitable, just slightly less so.
My newspaper printed an example situation given by Oxfam Novib: Say, a multinational has it's headquarters in Bulgaria. In that country, there's a 10% company tax. With the new rules, only then, when a subsidiary company pays less than 40% of Bulgaria's national rate, which in this case would be, only if it pays less than 4% tax, can Bulgaria make the subsidiary company pay taxes. This implies that the taxing competition between states basically continues as it was. Oxfam Novib proposes to instead agree on a minimum company tax for all member states.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/kritiek-op-brusselse-plannen-belastingontwijking~a4234279/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2016, 08:06:24 am

In the Dutch city of Enschede, the city council decided to cancel a public meeting between the council and it's citizen's, because, according to mayor Onno van Veldhuizen, "sadly, we cannot ensure public order and the safety of the meeting sufficiently".

In the meeting, the council was to give information, and answer questions about the agreement that the city has reached about the location of a refugee center, with the national coordination institute for housing refugees.

A city spokesman said that the council is now searching for a different means to inform neighbors, and other persons involved. According to the spokesman, it was "the public nature" of the meeting that was causing the security worries.

Mayor van Veldhuizen says he regrets that it was nescessary to cancel. "Democracy is becoming the victim of intimidation, threats, and violence more and more often. This is unacceptable."

The same refugee center location was the object of commotion twice before already. Late october, people were arrested at a protest against it, for making Hitler salutes and in November, pig's heads were dumped at the location.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/bijeenkomst-over-azc-enschede-afgelast-na-bedreiging~a4234965/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on January 30, 2016, 09:36:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2016, 08:06:24 am

In the Dutch city of Enschede, the city council decided to cancel a public meeting between the council and it's citizen's, because, according to mayor Onno van Veldhuizen, "sadly, we cannot ensure public order and the safety of the meeting sufficiently".

In the meeting, the council was to give information, and answer questions about the agreement that the city has reached about the location of a refugee center, with the national coordination institute for housing refugees.

A city spokesman said that the council is now searching for a different means to inform neighbors, and other persons involved. According to the spokesman, it was "the public nature" of the meeting that was causing the security worries.

Mayor van Veldhuizen says he regrets that it was nescessary to cancel. "Democracy is becoming the victim of intimidation, threats, and violence more and more often. This is unacceptable."

The same refugee center location was the object of commotion twice before already. Late october, people were arrested at a protest against it, for making Hitler salutes and in November, pig's heads were dumped at the location.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/bijeenkomst-over-azc-enschede-afgelast-na-bedreiging~a4234965/

First people were bitching about the fact that large refugee centres were planned in small villages. Now the plan is to place 600 refugees in a city of 130,000 people and they bitching more than ever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2016, 01:51:58 pm

In the center of the Swedish capital of Stockholm today, several dozens to a hundred masked men dressed in black have hunted and attacked children with North-African looks.
https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw (https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw)
Four people have been arrested, the number of victims is as of yet unknown. A witness told the Swedish newspaper that he saw 3 people being beaten up by the group.

Earlier that evening, unknown persons were handing out flyers in the city centre, which call out to "punish" the refugees.
According to the extreme right Nordfront movement, the flyers read "it is enough!"
The police is investigating into the flyer distribution.

The flyers furthermore referred to the fatal stabbing of a young woman who worked in a refugee centre, last week, for which a 15 year old refugee has been arrested, although police has not confirmed yet that he is being suspected of the stabbing.

The perpetrators of today's attack are likely to be sought amongst hardcore hooligans from the football clubs AIK and Djurgårdens IF.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/migrantenkinderen-aangevallen-in-centrum-stockholm~a4235437/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/migrantenkinderen-aangevallen-in-centrum-stockholm~a4235437/)

---

EDIT: in unrelated news from Greece, the Minister of State Alekos Flabouraris's house narrowly escaped burning down, when unknown assailants threw about 10 petrol bombs at it. A security guard's car burned out, and another car was damaged. The house itself did not catch on fire, although the entrance was damaged. The minister, who was at home at the time, remained unharmed. The ruling party, Syriza, has condemned the attack, and says that they will not let it undermine democracy.

Ever since the first budgetary discipline measures were instated in 2010, there has been a rise of attacks on politicians.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aanslag-met-benzinebommen-op-huis-griekse-minister~a4235304/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aanslag-met-benzinebommen-op-huis-griekse-minister~a4235304/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 03:15:18 pm

Goddamn. Whether this us backlash or just old-fashioned racism, this is getting ridiculous. Is there gonna be a race war now?

I mean, America's racist and all, but we're not like this. Anymore, that is. Seriously, I'm hoping Europe doesn't have to go through the same level of painful assimilation America did. On the one hand, they'd probably have it easier, because laws about equality and stuff are already the baseline, but on the other hand, the differences in culture and language and so on are vastly larger.

Bah. Once we colonize Venus this won't be as much of an issue, at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on January 30, 2016, 04:12:18 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 03:15:18 pm

-snip-

We need to find aliens so the xenophobia shifts to actual Xenos.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 30, 2016, 05:21:23 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 03:15:18 pm

Goddamn. Whether this us backlash or just old-fashioned racism, this is getting ridiculous. Is there gonna be a race war now?

I mean, America's racist and all, but we're not like this. Anymore, that is. Seriously, I'm hoping Europe doesn't have to go through the same level of painful assimilation America did. On the one hand, they'd probably have it easier, because laws about equality and stuff are already the baseline, but on the other hand, the differences in culture and language and so on are vastly larger.

Bah. Once we colonize Venus this won't be as much of an issue, at least.

I seem to recall Europe had a "little" problem of racism of their own.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 30, 2016, 05:32:42 pm

Our racism's different though. With the exceptions of Jews and gypsies our racism usually goes against folks who have an actual country of their own, unlike American racism against blacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sacasco on January 30, 2016, 05:46:59 pm

I disagree that the racism shown in Europe now is comparable to that in America in, say, the nineteenth century. That was a view held by the majority or a very significant minority that a portion of a country's own citizens were of less value than others. This is a few idiots being stupid, as idiots do, and many more people terrified by demagogues arguing that our wealth, nay, our very way of life is under threat from the outside. While I find objection to refugees still distasteful and quite simply stupid, I think that it is in a sense justifiable, if you take the duty of a state to be only to its own citizens and not to anyone else, which in a way is what is encouraged in practically every country. Europe has already gone through the whole racism thing and, while it's nowhere near perfect, I don't think we'll be looking at Jim Crow laws any time soon.

What I find slightly sad but amusing, though, is the fact that many Britons, at least, look at America and their problems with racist policing and so forth and say "Thank goodness we're not like that over here. We're liberal and civilised!"
Ha. If only.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ardas on January 30, 2016, 07:53:30 pm

You know what the REAL issue is? Lack of control over the situation. The "hands off" approach and the complete disregard for the impact that such sudden influx of people brings, regardless of local capacity to take them in, are errors that only exacerbate the issue.
Another gross mistake that is being committed even by the people in this thread is the assumption and imposition of an agenda by the people who are illegally entering Europe - this agenda being the escape from oppression and war. The fact that majority of these people are not from Syria, aren't fleeing war and are men in productive age tends to speak against this assumption and the events occurring all over Europe are a telling sign that the assumptions and contingencies prepared to deal with these assumptions aren't matching up with the reality.
Finally, the complete coloring of the issue with liberal rhetoric that is harmful to both the citizens and the people that are coming over - Europeans aren't prepared to deal with reality of such massive immigration from a region that is completely culturally alien, while the false image of European welfare (which isn't that generous or large to begin with) just brings in more people who seek to take advantage of it.

Let's not beat about the bush here - this is a humanitarian crisis, where a lot of people were duped into believing that we can help and where a vast part of impoverished population from the global South was duped into believing that European welfare and kindness are endless and there to be used (and potentially abused). This is no different from having a house party and a rogue Facebook message getting out and letting in a swarm of totally strange people into your house and wrecking it because they can and because you have no control over the situation. You try to be a good host and you enjoy having people over, but when the rooms are ruined and your dad's car has drinks all over the seats and your mom's tulips are trampled, who is going to pay for it? Them, or you?
Keeping these people in camps in Europe and trying to accommodate them, when clearly there's too many of them to have effective control over and borders are unwatched WHILE your voters are already rebelling against you is suicidal for German government and others which are dealing with the immigrant issue right now.

I would be the last person to encourage anything drastic against anyone who was led into their current position by false information, but if personal self-deceit and notions about what is going to happen are the cause of your trouble, why should I and my fellow citizens be forced to pay for your mistakes? how am I meant to help anyone when I am having the problem dumped on my head with no prior warning and it interfering with normal day to day life?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 09:16:22 pm

Considering the initial goal was to help Syrian refugees, I don't know if that's accurate, Ardas. Maybe something like you said your house was open for people who needed a place to stay, and while you meant 'people who have no other place to stay and just need a bit to get on their feet and can probably pay rent in a couple weeks', what a lot of people heard was 'free housing, food, and parties'. And it sucks that you're in a bind now, since you don't want to just forcefully kick them back out, but you also can't keep letting them track mud all over the carpet and the neighbors are getting upset about the parties and goddamn Jacob I said no marijuana.

The intent was not just to throw a party, it was to help people, and some people took advantage of that offer.

Can't really speak for the 'who should try to take care of the problem' bit, because that's getting back into a whole mess of other stuff and I'm not from Europe so I really have no position to cast judgement on the affair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on January 31, 2016, 04:45:52 am

Helping people is a hard and unpleasant work. Furthermore, In most cases you will get nothing but problems in return.

EU public expected to help by giving some living place and some cash and get no problems at all... I think this problem comes from devaluing of the word "helping". Nowadays help is associated with moral support in form of likes and shares in social networks or sending some money from your credit card to some charity fund.

While the whole Syrian crisis needs hard work of hundreds of thousands people to actually help.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ardas on January 31, 2016, 06:01:20 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 09:16:22 pm

Considering the initial goal was to help Syrian refugees,

Indeed, and I think that was a worthy goal in itself. Setting aside the hypocrisy of fueling the war there by American agenda which generates these refugees in the first place, that help did get devalued and the refugee help was hijacked by an opportunistic wave of migrants that had already been trying to enter Europe for the past several years. Like stated already, most people associate help with online likes and not real volunteer work ,which creates a total dissonance between the messages coming from Europe and the real support on the ground.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2016, 06:43:06 am

Europol reports, that over the last year, at least 10 thousand refugee children have gone missing after arriving in Europe. I is suspected that most of those have become victim of sex trade, and slave labour. Europol warns that their estimate is likely on the low side, since in Italy alone, already 5000 children are missing.

Of the estimated 1 million refugees that entered Europe, it is thought that a quarter of those are children, of whom 26 thousand travelled unacoompanied by family or adults.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 12:33:49 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 30, 2016, 09:36:47 am

First people were bitching about the fact that large refugee centres were planned in small villages. Now the plan is to place 600 refugees in a city of 130,000 people and they bitching more than ever.

They're bitching about immigrants Antioch, from city to town and village it's always the same, do you think they are so short sighted that they think what is brought on their neighbours is not to them?

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2016, 01:51:58 pm

In the center of the Swedish capital of Stockholm today, several dozens to a hundred masked men dressed in black have hunted and attacked children with North-African looks.
https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw (https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw)
Four people have been arrested, the number of victims is as of yet unknown. A witness told the Swedish newspaper that he saw 3 people being beaten up by the group.

A removed video, an unnamed witness, an unnamed Swedish newspaper - the same ilk that has been covering up immigrant crime and doctoring evidence to make it look like it's done by Swedes? I don't know, because unnamed newspaper, unnamed group and unknown victims with no actual sources. You're asking me to take the word of a Dutch progressive media reporting on the Guardian reporting on unnamed Swedish newspapers reporting on the Swedish Migration Board trying to downplay a Swede being stabbed to death at a refugee centre?

Quote from: Sacasco on January 30, 2016, 05:46:59 pm

I disagree that the racism shown in Europe now is comparable to that in America in, say, the nineteenth century. That was a view held by the majority or a very significant minority that a portion of a country's own citizens were of less value than others. This is a few idiots being stupid, as idiots do, and many more people terrified by demagogues arguing that our wealth, nay, our very way of life is under threat from the outside. While I find objection to refugees still distasteful and quite simply stupid, I think that it is in a sense justifiable, if you take the duty of a state to be only to its own citizens and not to anyone else, which in a way is what is encouraged in practically every country. Europe has already gone through the whole racism thing and, while it's nowhere near perfect, I don't think we'll be looking at Jim Crow laws any time soon.

Yeah we'll just be going through Shariah Law lel
Also if you still believe they're refugees at this point there's not much more to be said that isn't just a record on repeat.

Quote from: Sacasco on January 30, 2016, 05:46:59 pm

What I find slightly sad but amusing, though, is the fact that many Britons, at least, look at America and their problems with racist policing and so forth and say "Thank goodness we're not like that over here. We're liberal and civilised!"
Ha. If only.

I want to deport labour to California
The ouroboros of smug progressives trying to be the most toleran and progresiv has covered up enough atrocities for one century.

Quote from: Ardas on January 30, 2016, 07:53:30 pm

You know what the REAL issue is? Lack of control over the situation.

And do you know why there's no control? Because progresiv and toleran bureaucrats don't let Europeans control anything, only German progresiv are allowed control, and they don't even use it for anything beyond the pursuit of power.

Quote from: Ardas on January 30, 2016, 07:53:30 pm

Another gross mistake that is being committed even by the people in this thread is the assumption and imposition of an agenda by the people who are illegally entering Europe - this agenda being the escape from oppression and war. The fact that majority of these people are not from Syria, aren't fleeing war and are men in productive age tends to speak against this assumption and the events occurring all over Europe are a telling sign that the assumptions and contingencies prepared to deal with these assumptions aren't matching up with the reality.
Finally, the complete coloring of the issue with liberal rhetoric that is harmful to both the citizens and the people that are coming over - Europeans aren't prepared to deal with reality of such massive immigration from a region that is completely culturally alien, while the false image of European welfare (which isn't that generous or large to begin with) just brings in more people who seek to take advantage of it.

Two words: cheeki breeki~

Quote from: Ardas on January 30, 2016, 07:53:30 pm

Let's not beat about the bush here - this is a humanitarian crisis, where a lot of people were duped into believing that we can help and where a vast part of impoverished population from the global South was duped into believing that European welfare and kindness are endless and there to be used (and potentially abused). This is no different from having a house party and a rogue Facebook message getting out and letting in a swarm of totally strange people into your house and wrecking it because they can and because you have no control over the situation. You try to be a good host and you enjoy having people over, but when the rooms are ruined and your dad's car has drinks all over the seats and your mom's tulips are trampled, who is going to pay for it? Them, or you?
Keeping these people in camps in Europe and trying to accommodate them, when clearly there's too many of them to have effective control over and borders are unwatched WHILE your voters are already rebelling against you is suicidal for German government and others which are dealing with the immigrant issue right now.

Suicide is the agenda :D!

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 09:16:22 pm

Considering the initial goal was to help Syrian refugees, I don't know if that's accurate, Ardas.

That was not the initial goal, the initial goal was finding a way to make North African illegal immigration seem desirable, the media effort to make the two synonymous succeeded in 2014.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 09:16:22 pm

And it sucks that you're in a bind now, since you don't want to just forcefully kick them back out, but you also can't keep letting them track mud all over the carpet and the neighbors are getting upset about the parties and goddamn Jacob I said no marijuana.

Even worse, because you're gonna be kicked out of your own house (squatters rules are a bitch) and your neighbours are being molested and killed and someone is playing your favourite nashid

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 30, 2016, 09:16:22 pm

Can't really speak for the 'who should try to take care of the problem' bit, because that's getting back into a whole mess of other stuff and I'm not from Europe so I really have no position to cast judgement on the affair.

AMERICA FIX EVERYTHING, IT'S BROKEN

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2016, 06:43:06 am

Europol reports, that over the last year, at least 10 thousand refugee children have gone missing after arriving in Europe. I is suspected that most of those have become victim of sex trade, and slave labour. Europol warns that their estimate is likely on the low side, since in Italy alone, already 5000 children are missing.
Of the estimated 1 million refugees that entered Europe, it is thought that a quarter of those are children, of whom 26 thousand travelled unacoompanied by family or adults.

MARTIN PLS
STOP
You keep posting statistics out of your arse with "estimates" from "it is thoughts" and it lowers the quality of discussion TO BELOW FACEBOOK

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2016, 12:39:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 12:33:49 pm

MARTIN PLS
STOP
You keep posting statistics out of your arse with "estimates" from "it is thoughts" and it lowers the quality of discussion TO BELOW FACEBOOK

If you'd please calm down.
Apologies for forgetting to post the link to my arse the newspaper article.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/europol-minstens-10-duizend-vluchtelingenkinderen-vermist~a4235548/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/europol-minstens-10-duizend-vluchtelingenkinderen-vermist~a4235548/)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 12:33:49 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2016, 01:51:58 pm

In the center of the Swedish capital of Stockholm today, several dozens to a hundred masked men dressed in black have hunted and attacked children with North-African looks.
https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw (https://youtu.be/EHscx3iWyFw)
Four people have been arrested, the number of victims is as of yet unknown. A witness told the Swedish newspaper that he saw 3 people being beaten up by the group.

A removed video, an unnamed witness, an unnamed Swedish newspaper - the same ilk that has been covering up immigrant crime and doctoring evidence to make it look like it's done by Swedes? I don't know, because unnamed newspaper, unnamed group and unknown victims with no actual sources. You're asking me to take the word of a Dutch progressive media reporting on the Guardian reporting on unnamed Swedish newspapers reporting on the Swedish Migration Board trying to downplay a Swede being stabbed to death at a refugee centre?

The video wasn't removed when I posted it. I'm sure quite a few people watched it before it vanished. It showed a group of men in black running through a shopping area, I couldn't spot any real violence when watching it.

Witnesses should be unnamed. That's why our laws protect journalist's from revealing their sources.

Apologies for forgetting to type the Swedish newspaper's name, which I usually don't forget if you've read any of my posts. If you'd followed the link to the dutch newspaper though, you could have easily spotted the link to it.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22176513.ab (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22176513.ab)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 31, 2016, 12:47:29 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2016, 12:39:49 pm

If you'd please calm down.
Apologies for forgetting to post the link to my arse the newspaper article.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/europol-minstens-10-duizend-vluchtelingenkinderen-vermist~a4235548/

You cannot calm down the loud whisperer.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZWvUmf3.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Responding with "cheeki breeki" is really no better, Loud Whisper, than making up statistics. Nor is deciding the media is in a conspiracy to ruin Europe. >.> I mean, they might be idiots who end up doing that, but well-organized conspiracies with actually good public images are few and far between.

And in the analogy we were using, neither of those things are true. Europeans still far outnumber immigrants. Whether or not that will remain the case is a different matter, and order of magnitude can be discussed (because other than 'Germany's population is still majority Germans, not immigrants', I don't have hard numbers). No one is being kicked out of their house, and the scale of the atrocities are not on the level to where analogy-people are getting raped. If they were, then you might as well say that the other people who live in the house with you are taking it upon themselves to beat the shit out of the people who you had legitimately wanted to invite, as well as the freeloaders, in the name of defending their friends. It's well and good and not meant to be awful and all, just like letting in whoever wants to come, but that doesn't make it okay.

Also the 'toleran and progressiv' is getting a bit old. Unless you genuinely believe tolerance is a bad thing, then I think you should just say what you mean. Otherwise it at least looks a bit like the people saying 'homosexual agenda' unironically.

Basically: if someone wants to implement Sharia law through democratic means, that is entirely their prerogative to attempt. If they want to implement it through force or coercion, that is when I take issue with it. Free speech means free. Which is why I get just as annoyed when people on the left do it, if not more so because we're supposed to be better than that, goddamnit.

Although really, I find the way European politics seem to be developing rather amusing, considering there was a game/setting where the EU basically split into Germany-side and France-side, with Germany sick of paying taxes to support foreign countries and welfare for people who didn't contribute, while France continued to feel that helping people in poverty and providing aid to those in need was important. Perhaps the backlash will lead us that way, but at the moment, well. Heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 31, 2016, 01:38:23 pm

I love the way the Europol on this forum has turned into Father Martinuzz reading out newspaper articles at the breakfast table while the kids listen eagerly, because no-one else can be trusted with their sources. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 01:41:31 pm

Quick, everyone: If this thread was a family, who would be who?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Hehehehe... Forgot...

Again, why post volksrant? For one it speaks in progresiv speech and for seconds in Dutch so you've got two levels of getting lost in translation especially when it's the Dutch progresiv reporting on the English progresiv reporting on the English Observer reporting on the Belgian progresiv

There are a lot of redundant Chinese whisperers here

Quote

Brian Donald said 5,000 children had disappeared in Italy alone, while another 1,000 were unaccounted for in Sweden. He warned that a sophisticated pan-European “criminal infrastructure” was now targeting refugees. “It’s not unreasonable to say that we’re looking at 10,000-plus children. Not all of them will be criminally exploited; some might have been passed on to family members. We just don’t know where they are, what they’re doing or whom they are with.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/30/fears-for-missing-child-refugees

Straight from the Brian's Mouth, or at least only a few Chinese Whisperers away from Brian's Mouth.

Quote

According to Save the Children, an estimated 26,000 unaccompanied children entered Europe last year. Europol, which has a 900-strong force of intelligence analysts and police liaison officers, believes 27% of the million arrivals in Europe last year were minors.

Save the Children accounts for 26k unaccompanied, and Europol says they reckon 270k children overall arrived. So 10% of immigrants are children, 1% unaccompanied children, though using Europol estimates so that's not saying much. We are talking about Europol "stats so shit" they recorded the total amount of immigrants arriving in Europe as less than the amount that were arriving in Germany alone

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Responding with "cheeki breeki" is really no better, Loud Whisper, than making up statistics.

I want you to read what you just read and feel shame

No one takes cheeki breeki seriously, making up statistics is viler than lies, and is brazen villainy.
_{(Also I actually agreed quite much with the post)}

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Nor is deciding the media is in a conspiracy to ruin Europe. >.> I mean, they might be idiots who end up doing that, but well-organized conspiracies with actually good public images are few and far between.

The fact that people are so stupid is why conspiracies succeed, and indeed why they are made. Consider this, a company can through the actions of so many individuals only loosely cooperating with each other, create a company ethos and an overarching strategy - even without any conscious strategy. You see this a lot when people study companies and their strategies, yet the company workers themselves never thought of themselves as executing the same plan being studied. In this same manner our progressive Councillors, policemen, politicians, MPs on so many local levels and national levels (and even Tony Blair on the supranational) working in small conspiracies to avoid looking racist by seeking as many immigrants as possible and covering up as many rape gangs as possible, did create a situation in which tens of thousands of English girls would be used as sex slaves by Pakistani migrants.
There was never a conscious strategy to induce this, yet the actions of so many toleran and progresiv individuals doing everything in their power to signal that they are the most progressive has turned into this Cologne, this Oslo, this Rotherham.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

And in the analogy we were using, neither of those things are true. Europeans still far outnumber immigrants. Whether or not that will remain the case is a different matter, and order of magnitude can be discussed (because other than 'Germany's population is still majority Germans, not immigrants', I don't have hard numbers).

Quote from: Loud SOURCE CITATING EYES GYRATING Whispers on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

    Anyway, short version. There are 742 million total Europeans, vs 22 million total Syrians immigrants. Even if ALL the Syrians immigrants decided to move to Europe, you're only looking at a 3% increase in total European nation population.

No one in Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Southern Europe or Northern Europe is going to make a difference to the displacement Sweden and Germany has inflicted upon themselves. It is more like 80 million Germans and 9 million Swedes taking in mass immigration from the entire world. Swede statistics from 2011 show Swedes were already 85% and declining and that was before they had 4 years of immigration so hard even they panicked and tried to stop it. Germany will take longer, they do not know how many immigrants exactly they have taken and once all the old Germans have died they'll be moving down a lot from the 90% they were in 2010. Also even then, you will lose the cities first - all the Germans in the countryside will do nothing in the cities. Perhaps in that regard Sweden is most fucked because most of their country's Swedes live in the cities. But yeah it's by German statistics that it's risen to 1,500,000 yearly, still rising. The 10 million in 5 years thing is really quite conservative.

Follow the link in the quotes for the citation links, I have to keep manually typing them in because the old threads are locked and it bores me to do so manually. Likewise there are some things I had not considered then that I do now, in that Germany and Sweden's situation is far, far worse because of how old their Germans and Swedes are, how few German and Swedish young men there are, and how fewer German and Swedish men don't act toleran and progresiv. Once their OAPs are dead that's it, whether the immigrants bring their families with them or not Germans and Swedes are at a minimum being made minorities in every one of their major cities and a few areas of German countryside within a generation. Also when I wrote that I had gravely underestimated just how much immigration had increased to Germany. Still has, with the record being 1.5mil 2015, and despite Winter hitting Europe immigration rates still increased, with the only notable thing happening being "refugees" returning to Iraq from Finland because they didn't like the weather

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 09:29:52 am

(...)Skåne and Malmo with high immigration rates were very supportive of their populist anti-immigrant parties whilst the immigrant-free north was supporting of pro-immigration leftist parties. I cannot find statistics in the current year, as either the Swedish government does not want to publish them or they are incapable of recording them, but by 2012 Swedes were just 58% (http://redovisningar.malmo.se/2013/assets/Valfardsredovisning_2013.pdf). After the recent waves of immigration that were even too much for Swedish politicians, I have little doubt that Swedes are already a minority in Malmo. If the Swedish gov had not stopped collecting this information on the national level we'd also be able to make conjecture there. I have found it cute that even Swedish anti-immigrant parties campaign on the basis that they are protecting progressive values; no one will doubt that Swedes weren't committed to their project until the end.

Then I think back on Merkel saying multiculturalism has failed, that the immigration has to stop, that Germany is losing its "social core", then immediately moving to paralyze any actual attempt at limiting let alone reversing immigration. I still wonder how much is incompetence and mismanagement, and how much is deliberate design. When all the old Europeans die, they're going to leave their children in an even more precarious position, even more marginalized, with the same weak minds and weak bodies and even less of them than there were their parents. Over the old body of Europe the strong will pick it apart, and I think this will be a battle between strong immigrant conservatives versus immigrant conservatives, not immigrants versus Swedes.

Consider the battle of identity politics. Immigrant ideologies are based around building up social units, family units, racial units; African, Arab, Turkish, Kurdish nationalism, South Asian and East Asian family networks (and even Asian solidarity between south and east, not sure if that's unique to England where south, southeast and east meet), Islamism and the one community e.t.c.
Compare this to the new Western philosophies that are by design meant to divide and conquer, trying to find ways value people via the progressive stack, so someone can always be attacked for who they are. Divide yourself up and distance yourself from being a man, being European, being strait, being cis, all to create a generation of weak dysfunctional Europeans who cannot resist any immigrant conservatives

I suspect it's already happened since the progressive governments have just plain outright refused to collect this information anymore, so no one can see the water boil lel

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

No one is being kicked out of their house, and the scale of the atrocities are not on the level to where analogy-people are getting raped. If they were, then you might as well say that the other people who live in the house with you are taking it upon themselves to beat the shit out of the people who you had legitimately wanted to invite, as well as the freeloaders, in the name of defending their friends. It's well and good and not meant to be awful and all, just like letting in whoever wants to come, but that doesn't make it okay.

People getting raped and sold into sex slavery is a good analogue for people getting raped

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Also the 'toleran and progressiv' is getting a bit old. Unless you genuinely believe tolerance is a bad thing, then I think you should just say what you mean. Otherwise it at least looks a bit like the people saying 'homosexual agenda' unironically.

Our "tolerant and progressive" bunch are very fond of toting around tolerance and progressiveness for social signalling, I AM THE MOST TOLERANT, I AM THE MOST PROGRESSIVE! But they are usually not very tolerant, and their progressiveness is of the Swedish variety

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Basically: if someone wants to implement Sharia law through democratic means, that is entirely their prerogative to attempt.

What if it's through subverted democracy, as with our corrupt councilors who channeled council tax funds towards Islamism?

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Although really, I find the way European politics seem to be developing rather amusing, considering there was a game/setting where the EU basically split into Germany-side and France-side, with Germany sick of paying taxes to support foreign countries and welfare for people who didn't contribute, while France continued to feel that helping people in poverty and providing aid to those in need was important. Perhaps the backlash will lead us that way, but at the moment, well. Heh.

Everybody immigrate to Svalbard, nothing's ever broken in Svalbard


Oh yeah as well, remember how everyone said using immigration to solve a demographic timebomb is like trying to bury a WWII mine in C4 because you failed (http://www.dw.com/en/immigration-not-going-to-stop-germanys-demographic-problem/a-18993548)

Quote

Germany would need 470,000 immigrants, ready to join the pool of taxpayers, each year between now and then to offset the demographic decline, the report said. As the current number of refugees fleeing conflict in the Middle East and North Africa is not likely to be sustained year after year, Germany cannot rely on immigrants alone to solve the riddle posed by its ageing citizens and low amount of births, the report continued.

ya welcome

Quote from: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 01:41:31 pm

Quick, everyone: If this thread was a family, who would be who?

I swer on me be the Nan I'd be smackin the lot of you with me roller pins

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 31, 2016, 02:00:01 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 01:41:31 pm

Quick, everyone: If this thread was a family, who would be who?

I'd be the next-door neighbor that pops in occasionally and just sort of stares at the shenanigans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on January 31, 2016, 02:03:09 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 01:41:31 pm

Quick, everyone: If this thread was a family, who would be who?

Toady would be the police.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on January 31, 2016, 02:17:56 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on January 31, 2016, 02:00:01 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 01:41:31 pm

Quick, everyone: If this thread was a family, who would be who?

I'd be the next-door neighbor that pops in occasionally and just sort of stares at the shenanigans.

I'm not sure I even live in the city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 31, 2016, 04:00:39 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Although really, I find the way European politics seem to be developing rather amusing, considering there was a game/setting where the EU basically split into Germany-side and France-side, with Germany sick of paying taxes to support foreign countries and welfare for people who didn't contribute, while France continued to feel that helping people in poverty and providing aid to those in need was important. Perhaps the backlash will lead us that way, but at the moment, well. Heh.

You have to understand that it is the countries that give the most and are the most open to helping people in poverty and providing aid that are the ones that are left worst off by the crisis. Sweden is already breaking down because it has such an extensive social system and can't support the huge numbers of immigrants it has seen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Responding with "cheeki breeki" is really no better, Loud Whisper, than making up statistics.

I want you to read what you just read and feel shame

No one takes cheeki breeki seriously, making up statistics is viler than lies, and is brazen villainy.
_{(Also I actually agreed quite much with the post)}

Three types of lies, LW. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
On the other hand, you're not wrong. It's just that I, at least, am not familiar with it, and it just ends up looking like dismissal to me. You seem to use it for just about anything, so it's difficult to tell how you mean it. My apologies for misinterpreting you.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Nor is deciding the media is in a conspiracy to ruin Europe. >.> I mean, they might be idiots who end up doing that, but well-organized conspiracies with actually good public images are few and far between.

The fact that people are so stupid is why conspiracies succeed, and indeed why they are made. Consider this, a company can through the actions of so many individuals only loosely cooperating with each other, create a company ethos and an overarching strategy - even without any conscious strategy. You see this a lot when people study companies and their strategies, yet the company workers themselves never thought of themselves as executing the same plan being studied. In this same manner our progressive Councillors, policemen, politicians, MPs on so many local levels and national levels (and even Tony Blair on the supranational) working in small conspiracies to avoid looking racist by seeking as many immigrants as possible and covering up as many rape gangs as possible, did create a situation in which tens of thousands of English girls would be used as sex slaves by Pakistani migrants.
There was never a conscious strategy to induce this, yet the actions of so many toleran and progresiv individuals doing everything in their power to signal that they are the most progressive has turned into this Cologne, this Oslo, this Rotherham.

Oh, is that all you meant? I'll agree with that. I just don't consider it an agenda or a conspiracy, I think. Systematic results of individual actions. Markets and incentive structures. Yeah, I can agree with you there. My apologies for again misunderstanding you.
So yeah, signalling games are really fucking stupid, even if they are the reason we're intelligent.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Loud SOURCE CITATING EYES GYRATING Whispers on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

    Anyway, short version. There are 742 million total Europeans, vs 22 million total Syrians immigrants. Even if ALL the Syrians immigrants decided to move to Europe, you're only looking at a 3% increase in total European nation population.

No one in Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Southern Europe or Northern Europe is going to make a difference to the displacement Sweden and Germany has inflicted upon themselves. It is more like 80 million Germans and 9 million Swedes taking in mass immigration from the entire world. Swede statistics from 2011 show Swedes were already 85% and declining and that was before they had 4 years of immigration so hard even they panicked and tried to stop it. Germany will take longer, they do not know how many immigrants exactly they have taken and once all the old Germans have died they'll be moving down a lot from the 90% they were in 2010. Also even then, you will lose the cities first - all the Germans in the countryside will do nothing in the cities. Perhaps in that regard Sweden is most fucked because most of their country's Swedes live in the cities. But yeah it's by German statistics that it's risen to 1,500,000 yearly, still rising. The 10 million in 5 years thing is really quite conservative.

Follow the link in the quotes for the citation links, I have to keep manually typing them in because the old threads are locked and it bores me to do so manually. Likewise there are some things I had not considered then that I do now, in that Germany and Sweden's situation is far, far worse because of how old their Germans and Swedes are, how few German and Swedish young men there are, and how fewer German and Swedish men don't act toleran and progresiv. Once their OAPs are dead that's it, whether the immigrants bring their families with them or not Germans and Swedes are at a minimum being made minorities in every one of their major cities and a few areas of German countryside within a generation. Also when I wrote that I had gravely underestimated just how much immigration had increased to Germany. Still has, with the record being 1.5mil 2015, and despite Winter hitting Europe immigration rates still increased, with the only notable thing happening being "refugees" returning to Iraq from Finland because they didn't like the weather

Quote

...within a generation? Really? If the current rate of immigration keeps up, then maybe. Maybe. But I don't believe that will happen, if only because it is unsustainable in terms of welfare state and German public goodwill. I'm not saying 'therefore don't worry about it'. I'm saying 'therefore it is not all-encompassing doom that will change the face of Europe forever and ever'. I mean, it'll probably change Europe quite a bit forever, I just don't think it's DOOM. A lot of what you're saying here sounds a lot like the people talking about white genocide, and while that's not actually an argument in itself, it stands to be aware of it. Considering the urbanization level of Germany(~75%), (CIA World Factbook as source, took me fifteen seconds to google) I really doubt the cities will end up as nothing but immigrants. 20-30 million people (half the urban pop.) don't disappear in a a single generation. I suppose on this subject, we just disagree about how the trends will go. I really do think that the backlash is going to hit hard in at most a year (I assign 70% probability), and it's going to be awful, and there'll be like five years or so of dealing with bullshit from everywhere afterwards, and then another twenty of vaguely reduced levels of bullshit, and then whatever.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

No one is being kicked out of their house, and the scale of the atrocities are not on the level to where analogy-people are getting raped. If they were, then you might as well say that the other people who live in the house with you are taking it upon themselves to beat the shit out of the people who you had legitimately wanted to invite, as well as the freeloaders, in the name of defending their friends. It's well and good and not meant to be awful and all, just like letting in whoever wants to come, but that doesn't make it okay.

People getting raped and sold into sex slavery is a good analogue for people getting raped

Yeah, and there's a lot more than five or six people in a single country, as there might be in a house. The number and scale of the atrocities does not match up to saying that a fifth of the population is being sexually assaulted, rape, and sold into slavery by party-guests. I'm saying that the level of harm and damage done to the countries in the analogy is more on the level of vandalism, or date-rape by some dude at a massive party. Doesn't mean it's not bad, just that it doesn't need to be inflated into "The government and neighboring governments are getting raped".

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Also the 'toleran and progressiv' is getting a bit old. Unless you genuinely believe tolerance is a bad thing, then I think you should just say what you mean. Otherwise it at least looks a bit like the people saying 'homosexual agenda' unironically.

Our "tolerant and progressive" bunch are very fond of toting around tolerance and progressiveness for social signalling, I AM THE MOST TOLERANT, I AM THE MOST PROGRESSIVE! But they are usually not very tolerant, and their progressiveness is of the Swedish variety

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 01:57:36 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Basically: if someone wants to implement Sharia law through democratic means, that is entirely their prerogative to attempt.

What if it's through subverted democracy, as with our corrupt councilors who channeled council tax funds towards Islamism?

Supporting terrorism is wrong. But corruption happens all the time, anyway, what makes this particularly bad? I want corruption dealt with, but do you think backlash against the people voting for their values is the solution? Do you think those councilors actually personally want Shariah Law implemented?

Quote from: scriver on January 31, 2016, 04:00:39 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Although really, I find the way European politics seem to be developing rather amusing, considering there was a game/setting where the EU basically split into Germany-side and France-side, with Germany sick of paying taxes to support foreign countries and welfare for people who didn't contribute, while France continued to feel that helping people in poverty and providing aid to those in need was important. Perhaps the backlash will lead us that way, but at the moment, well. Heh.

You have to understand that it is the countries that give the most and are the most open to helping people in poverty and providing aid that are the ones that are left worst off by the crisis. Sweden is already breaking down because it has such an extensive social system and can't support the huge numbers of immigrants it has seen.

...yeah? The groups who most implement a plan that affects them are usually the ones affected most.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

What I think has been totally missed is the moral aspect of this. I find it impossible to argue that allowing refugees, or even other migrants, into Europe is going to decrease total human happiness in the world. For a start, the chance of them starving is vastly decreased, and we have no idea whether it's going to be a good or bad thing for "native" Europeans in the long run. If you disagree with me there, please say so.

Therefore, it seems to me that any argument against allowing them in is inherently racist, though I understand and accept that most people don't see it that way. The trouble is, of course, that the purpose of democracy is that everyone votes for their own benefit rather than that of others, so those without a vote, in this case foreigners, lose out.

The only feasible way I see to disagree with this, assuming you agree with my first statement, is to argue that each country should work for only its own citizens. Which works, but I feel that that equates to NIMBYism, which is something I vigorously oppose at least in principle, however complicated that is when it's you who's affected.

Arguing that Shariah law is a likely outcome seems to me to be somewhat overstating the impact these refugees will have, as well as probably the inclination of many of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 05:12:50 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

Three types of lies, LW. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
On the other hand, you're not wrong. It's just that I, at least, am not familiar with it, and it just ends up looking like dismissal to me. You seem to use it for just about anything, so it's difficult to tell how you mean it. My apologies for misinterpreting you.

Quite so! And there is no insult done to me, I am sorry for being too cheeki breeki and not just giving a clear answer, it really is my fault for confusing you and not yours for being confused xD

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

Oh, is that all you meant? I'll agree with that. I just don't consider it an agenda or a conspiracy, I think. Systematic results of individual actions. Markets and incentive structures. Yeah, I can agree with you there. My apologies for again misunderstanding you.
So yeah, signalling games are really fucking stupid, even if they are the reason we're intelligent.

Pretty much. Politicians want to suck up to the media to show they are the most giving and the media want to attack any politicians that aren't the most giving, in this endless feedback loop of sucking up and covering up that leads everyone blind, dumb and ineffectual. It leads to this whole mentality where everyone from the USA, to Northern Europe, to Western Europe and so on are all calling each other racist barbarians who need more immigrants to be the most tolerant and the media accept this as good so the politicians accept this as good and the academia teach the next generation this is good and we all nod this is well good whilst our shitposts land us in prison or get us visits from German stazi. I wish I could still say that and say I was joking

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

...within a generation? Really? If the current rate of immigration keeps up, then maybe. Maybe.

Already happened in Malmo, and it happened in London 10 years ago with a much lower immigration rate. I'm not talking maybes, I'm talking it's a wait for either the old ones to die or the Swede/Kraut governments to actually collect the statistics they're too scared to collate.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

But I don't believe that will happen, if only because it is unsustainable in terms of welfare state and German public goodwill.

Why? Do you think the Germans saying "go home" or the welfare state collapsing will change anything? The sheer quantity of people who are clearly not going home are not going home just because the Germans say please. What was it, 80,000 deported, whilst a million and a half arrived? I'm afraid they're using a bucket to scoop out the ocean.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

I'm not saying 'therefore don't worry about it'. I'm saying 'therefore it is not all-encompassing doom that will change the face of Europe forever and ever'. I mean, it'll probably change Europe quite a bit forever, I just don't think it's DOOM.

If we're using the old definition of doom to be an unavoidable fate, then for Germany and Sweden then yeah it's pretty much all ogre now and there's nothing they can do about it, unless we're talking decades of repatriation efforts which will cost Germany loads and lose their progressive cred

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

A lot of what you're saying here sounds a lot like the people talking about white genocide, and while that's not actually an argument in itself, it stands to be aware of it. Considering the urbanization level of Germany(~75%), (CIA World Factbook as source, took me fifteen seconds to google) I really doubt the cities will end up as nothing but immigrants. 20-30 million people (half the urban pop.) don't disappear in a a single generation.

I live in the city where the English were very quickly made a minority by a left-wing government who literally conspired to permanently change the ethnic makeup of Britain in order to make "diversity"
That was their reason
As far as reasons go I've heard better lol, so something to keep in mind is that I don't give a shit about youtube copypastas about genocide of the fish. Over here all the media, news outlets, tv shows, comedians and public figures all laughed at the notion of just 1% or 2% of arrivals managing to displace the English, then when those percentages increased it was the multicultural experiment and then under Porky Prime Minister it was the failed multicultural experiment yet immigration continued unabated to the London of today, currently being colonized by rich globalists from New York to Riyadh and Moscow ;P
Basically they kept saying it was fine, the English wouldn't be displaced, then when they were they switched tag and just started attacking the English; bunch of gits really, they knew once they'd permanently changed London's ethnic makeup they could drop the working class like a poison potato and lose no power at all

Germany's taken in far more immigrants than England at a far faster rate, the way I see it is if the English on their island could not survive a mere decade of Labour enrichment there's no way Germans on their bridges to Turkey, Africa, Central Asia, Russia, South Asia and East Asia is going to survive a decade of Merkel enrichment

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

I suppose on this subject, we just disagree about how the trends will go. I really do think that the backlash is going to hit hard in at most a year (I assign 70% probability), and it's going to be awful, and there'll be like five years or so of dealing with bullshit from everywhere afterwards, and then another twenty of vaguely reduced levels of bullshit, and then whatever.

It'll most likely be a pathetic backlash that ends up with a few hundred, maybe a few thousand dead if things get really bad, but the trends won't stop because the spice must flow

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

Yeah, and there's a lot more than five or six people in a single country, as there might be in a house. The number and scale of the atrocities does not match up to saying that a fifth of the population is being sexually assaulted, rape, and sold into slavery by party-guests. I'm saying that the level of harm and damage done to the countries in the analogy is more on the level of vandalism, or date-rape by some dude at a massive party. Doesn't mean it's not bad, just that it doesn't need to be inflated into "The government and neighboring governments are getting raped".

Sweden - 80%-100% of adults sexually harassed (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-and-denmark-have-highest-number-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html)
And then the Police show up to cover everything up (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/world/europe/swedish-police-coverup-sexual-assault.html?_r=0)
And the statistics are a whole mess with the Swedish government halting the collection of crimes by ethnicity altogether to be the most progressive police force around
In that same vein I wonder how many of the children the Europol log are just middle aged men using the fast-track asylum seeking process for children, it's one of the more common abuses of the laws in the UK, wouldn't be surprised if some knew to use it in the EU

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

Supporting terrorism is wrong. But corruption happens all the time, anyway, what makes this particularly bad? I want corruption dealt with, but do you think backlash against the people voting for their values is the solution? Do you think those councilors actually personally want Shariah Law implemented?

1. It is a powerful expansive ideology, and it is strong with no rival and protection by the progressive political machine. Bad enough that it has endorsement by the PP machine, because a generation of fucked up European boys with identity issues will quickly latch onto the strong horse that offers them immunity to PP criticism.
2. Yes
3. Yes, whether they are sincere believers or not, never forget the likes of Saudi Arabia buying out Italian MPs with Rolexes or building their mosques in Germany, religion and politics are very hard to separate

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 04:18:20 pm

...yeah? The groups who most implement a plan that affects them are usually the ones affected most.

I kinda want to find the old posts in the progressive thread where people were saying the immigrant crisis would affect no one, but I just want to drink my tea and feel melancholy

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

What I think has been totally missed is the moral aspect of this. I find it impossible to argue that allowing refugees, or even other migrants, into Europe is going to decrease total human happiness in the world. For a start, the chance of them starving is vastly decreased, and we have no idea whether it's going to be a good or bad thing for "native" Europeans in the long run. If you disagree with me there, please say so.

I disagree, you are just making Europe ineffectual when it is already in decline whilst ensuring the most powerful humanitarian nations behind the USA are actually incapable of paying for humanitarian projects abroad whilst they struggle with their own newly-manufactured domestic problems at home.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/we6EIjI.png)

This was the world population around 1900

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/1plsHRL.png)

This is the world population in the current century

The reason why the UK -> US path works is that the great influx of aid provides a cushion for drought/war induced famine and the evolution into foreign investment creates a self-sustaining, powerful and stable country that provides for its own people. They can turn their large population into power, to master their own destiny. The reason why the Merkel -> Cologne path does not work is because it's just turning Europe into Eurabia to... Well, I'm not sure who it helps really lol, the only countries immigration is making dents in are European ones, it's just a matter of numbers.
Because the illegal immigrants brought to Europe are not going home and their departure does not make a noticeable dent in their home countries' population, it doesn't help their home country. It doesn't help the immigrants themselves unless they like being stuck in a Europe with no money and too many men living under a foreign people's roof with a foreign people's religion and it certainly doesn't help Europeans of today or of tomorrow (but this is the future the Yuros of today chose, and I'm sure they'll be consoled by the levels of enrichment). I'm not even sure if this benefits anyone except German industrialists that much, as for most developed European economies the basis of their economies rely on skilled services workers, not unskilled labourers.

Any minute population reduction within West Africa, Nigeria, Central Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, Southern Asia, China and Southeast Asia will be negligible and very quickly replaced by the billions of newborns. Quite frankly if you are not following the UK -> USA pathway all you are doing is guaranteeing that when resources finally dwindle to sufficient scarcity beyond the world population's needs, not only will you not be able to send relief abroad, but you will have condemned your own poor.
One need only look at the humanitarian missions being redirected from Africa to Greece to see how European nations are not immune to starvation or disease.

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

Therefore, it seems to me that any argument against allowing them in is inherently racist, though I understand and accept that most people don't see it that way.

So tolerant, so progresiv

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

The trouble is, of course, that the purpose of democracy is that everyone votes for their own benefit rather than that of others, so those without a vote, in this case foreigners, lose out. Arguing that Shariah law is a likely outcome seems to me to be somewhat overstating the impact these refugees will have, as well as probably the inclination of many of them.

Yeah why don't we abolish democracy Mr. Hitler, and while we're at it give votes to foreigners so they can vote for more foreigners to arrive. And then when they start voting for Islamists you can get cheeki breeki about how everything is the fault of them inherent racists :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on January 31, 2016, 05:23:53 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 31, 2016, 04:00:39 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 12:50:03 pm

Although really, I find the way European politics seem to be developing rather amusing, considering there was a game/setting where the EU basically split into Germany-side and France-side, with Germany sick of paying taxes to support foreign countries and welfare for people who didn't contribute, while France continued to feel that helping people in poverty and providing aid to those in need was important. Perhaps the backlash will lead us that way, but at the moment, well. Heh.

You have to understand that it is the countries that give the most and are the most open to helping people in poverty and providing aid that are the ones that are left worst off by the crisis. Sweden is already breaking down because it has such an extensive social system and can't support the huge numbers of immigrants it has seen.

And on the other hand, they might be taking them in precisely for the same reason - not even the MUH WELFARE-STEALIN IMMIGRUNTZ, they need to take in taxpayers to pay for the social system it had in the first place for the natives, considering the demographic situation.

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

What I think has been totally missed is the moral aspect of this. I find it impossible to argue that allowing refugees, or even other migrants, into Europe is going to decrease total human happiness in the world. For a start, the chance of them starving is vastly decreased, and we have no idea whether it's going to be a good or bad thing for "native" Europeans in the long run. If you disagree with me there, please say so.

Therefore, it seems to me that any argument against allowing them in is inherently racist, though I understand and accept that most people don't see it that way. The trouble is, of course, that the purpose of democracy is that everyone votes for their own benefit rather than that of others, so those without a vote, in this case foreigners, lose out.

The only feasible way I see to disagree with this, assuming you agree with my first statement, is to argue that each country should work for only its own citizens. Which works, but I feel that that equates to NIMBYism, which is something I vigorously oppose at least in principle, however complicated that is when it's you who's affected.

Arguing that Shariah law is a likely outcome seems to me to be somewhat overstating the impact these refugees will have, as well as probably the inclination of many of them.

That argument doesn't really work. First, you're basing it upon pure utilitarianism, which has its own issues;

Second, 'them starving' is not the only factor at work; if you're utilitarian, if you excuse the phrasing of the saying, shut up and multiply - couldn't the resources be better used elsewhere for maximizing happiness? couldn't the effects such as criminal issues or racial/cultural tensions, both of which happen to some degree at least already do decrease the total happiness than the alternative would? Etc. etc. I cannot even be bothered to come up with a full list for that kind of analysis, you got the point.

Third, yes, we have no idea if it's going to be a good or bad thing in the long run. So? Double-edged sword. We don't know if it's good or bad, so that's a net zero on for/against.

Fourth - racism card waaaaay premature. People who blanket-accuse who disagree with them of racism are literally Hitler. If anything, the majority of the arguments again is based upon the selfsame appeal to total happiness, the difference is in their analysis. How many people would, in fact,  otherwise likely starve (considering all the fake-Syrians slipping by in the mess)? To what degree the benefits outweigh the violence on both sides of the equation, and to what degree said violence is actually occurring and how much is either overblown or swept under the rug? So on, so forth.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 05:40:49 pm

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

What I think has been totally missed is the moral aspect of this. I find it impossible to argue that allowing refugees, or even other migrants, into Europe is going to decrease total human happiness in the world. For a start, the chance of them starving is vastly decreased, and we have no idea whether it's going to be a good or bad thing for "native" Europeans in the long run. If you disagree with me there, please say so.

Oh yeah, and I totally forgot to even address the moral aspect in regards to native Europeans, my cultural enrichment is showing:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2016, 10:01:01 am

Quote

Everyone in a position of power held the same opinion. Diversity was a good in itself, so making Europe truly diverse would enrich it and bring 'significant cultural contributions', reflecting a widespread belief among the ruling classes that multiculturalism and cultural, racial and religious diversity were morally positive things whatever the consequences. This is the unthinking assumption held by almost the entire political, media and education establishment. It is the diversity illusion.
Advocates of multiculturalism argue that immigrants prefer to stick together because of racism and the fear of racial violence, as well as the bonds of community. This is perfectly reasonable, but if this is the case, why not the same for natives too? If multiculturalism is right because minorities feel better among themselves, why have mass immigration at all, since it must obviously make everyone miserable? (And if diversity 'enriches' and strengthens, why integrate, since that will only reduce diversity?) All the arguments for multiculturalism—that people feel safer, more comfortable among people of the same group, and that they need their own cultural identity—are arguments against immigration, since European people must also feel the same. If people categorised as "white European" are not afforded that indulgence because they are a majority, do they attain it when they become a minority?

Paraphrased from Wikipedia of all things lel

It's a bad thing for Euros if they stop existing, even worse so if their children are tossed or effed in various degrees literal and metaphorical, and I like the gits even if they're weird and highly prone to certain flavours of pathological altruism. The only good thing to come to Europeans out of this is that immigrant conservatives btfo progressive Europeans, I always enjoy the irony of my ideal UK essentially being a colonial Malaya where a foreign diaspora rule over wealthy cities powered by immigration that try to reduce their demographic impact on the countryside. It is no coincidence I think, that pretty much all the right-wing friends I have are either Semitic, Arab, Indian, southeast-Asian, Sri-Lankan or a Slav,  and I should hope our elite foreign diaspora win out the struggle against the altruist one or the totalitarian one. And God forbid, the totalitarian altruists.

Also this lol (http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21688896-europe-and-home-angela-merkels-refugee-policy-being-blown-away-ill-wind?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

IN BERLIN they speak of “Plan B”; in Brussels the fear is of the U-turn. Whatever the term, the prediction is the same: that Angela Merkel is on the brink of reversing the generous policy towards asylum-seekers that saw more than a million of them reach Germany last year. For now, Mrs Merkel sticks to her well-worn line: Wir schaffen das (“We will handle this”). Over the past six months she has slowly assembled a hard-headed, coherent migration strategy. But each of its elements is starting to give way.

First, numbers. The winter weather has dented the refugee flows to Greece from Turkey, but not as quickly as hoped. Over 1,600 a day have reached Greece this month, a higher rate than last July when the crisis was already in full swing. Border controls erected along the migratory route since then complicate the journey, but determined migrants still make it to Germany. Wrong-footed by the explosion in arrivals last autumn Mrs Merkel’s government tightened asylum rules, but few were put off. A growing number of Moroccans and Algerians, hailing from poor but peaceful countries, are coming to Germany, exploiting the trail blazed by Syrians and Afghans. Meanwhile the howls from regional officials who must house and feed the arrivals grow ever louder: last week a mayor bussed 31 Syrians to the federal chancellery in Berlin, saying his small town could no longer cope.

To cut the numbers reaching Europe, Mrs Merkel has turned to realpolitik. German officials aim to strike deals with countries in the Maghreb and Asia to make it easier to return failed asylum-seekers, and are prepared to use development aid as a weapon. Their main hopes, though, lie in an “action plan” the EU cooked up with Turkey in October, which promised money and other prizes in exchange for efforts to stem the migrant flows. Mrs Merkel believes that Turkey can help by disrupting people-smuggling networks and stepping up coastal patrols. But, despite the incentives, there is little sign of Turkish action so far. Without it, the refugee numbers will start to climb again once spring arrives.

To deal with the influx Mrs Merkel has backed an EU plan to register asylum-seekers arriving in Italy and Greece and to relocate them around the club, with national quotas calculated in Brussels. A million asylum-seekers should be no great burden for a union of 500m people. But the relocation scheme has flopped too: many countries want nothing to do with refugees, and refugees have no interest in most countries. So the Germans are changing tack, seeking allies willing to help them resettle hundreds of thousands of Syrians directly from Turkey. France is among the countries prepared to take in the same number of resettled refugees it agreed to take under the relocation scheme. But this will work only if the illegal flows fall dramatically, which means the Turkey deal must kick into gear.

In the meantime, Germany is beginning the difficult work of integrating hundreds of thousands of newcomers. The new-year horrors of Cologne, when hundreds of women were sexually assaulted by marauding groups of men, many of them Muslim asylum-seekers, focused minds on cultural differences. But bringing refugees into the workforce, the main engine of integration, represents at least as big a challenge. The assumption that Germany’s tight labour market was tailor-made for job-hungry migrants has given way to the grim realisation that most are an ill fit for an economy mainly seeking highly skilled workers. The head of one business group reckons almost 80% of refugees have next to no skills at all.

Mrs Merkel is racing against time. Her Christian Democratic Union and its coalition partners are increasingly restive. Cabinet ministers have openly challenged the chancellor’s position. The anti-immigration Alternative for Germany party is notching up double-digit polling results for the first time. Refugees languish in supposedly temporary accommodation months after arriving in Germany. Mrs Merkel continues to insist that there can be no cap on the number of refugees Germany accepts, and the constitution agrees with her. But increasingly, reality does not.

Very well, alone

What if nothing works? Despite the pressure Mrs Merkel is unlikely to shut Germany’s borders, because she wants to preserve the EU’s passport-free Schengen zone. But other plans are being drawn up inside the chancellery, including a sealing of the Greece-Macedonia border across which most refugees travel to reach Germany. Once refugees see that Greece has become a dead end, says one German official, they will think twice about setting sail from Turkey. Other routes will no doubt emerge, perhaps across the Black Sea. But the plan might at least buy time.

Such schemes show how far Germany has travelled since its “welcome culture” lifted European liberals’ hearts last summer. Back then Mrs Merkel’s model presented an inspiring alternative to the small-minded xenophobia of leaders like Hungary’s Viktor Orban. Now, after the chaos and trauma of the past six months, Mr Orban feels vindicated and the chancellor looks increasingly isolated. Germany has tried to lead in Europe, but others will not follow. To Mrs Merkel’s immense frustration, other EU countries agree to policies like relocation and then ignore them. While German officials try to knit together the geopolitics of the crisis, from Iraq to Turkey and Russia, most other countries would prefer it simply to go away. As for the European Commission, which sometimes looks like the chancellor’s last ally, it has gamely advanced common policies but is too weak to enforce them. “The European dream is vanishing,” sighs one of its senior officials.

Mrs Merkel, to her credit, is desperate to keep it alive. But time is running out. Germany has perhaps two months to hope that the jigsaw pieces fall into place before the refugee flows pick up again, and each part of the job gets harder every day. Can Germany still handle this? We will continue to make the case, says a government official. “But nobody believes it.”

So Germany's using development aid as a bargaining tool whilst the UK gives more with less wealth for free and the Progressive media loves one and hates the other D:<

Also top kek at giving Turkish immigrants a fastrack in exchange for reduced asylum and then Erdogan just gives Germany Turkish immigrants and refugees
And poor Orban, even when he's right no one concedes to him he was right, BORBAN ORBAN

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on January 31, 2016, 06:53:47 pm

Quote from: Sacasco on January 31, 2016, 04:47:04 pm

Therefore, it seems to me that any argument against allowing them in is inherently racist

I could also argue, making equally little sense, that any argument in favor of allowing them in is inherently racist due to its impact on native Europeans.

Racism requires discrimination due to race. Not religion, not moral values, and not poverty. Where is the discrimination explicitly due to race?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 07:08:55 pm

See, it's the explicitly bit you two disagree on. Sacasco believes the racism is implied; "European lives are more important than non-European lives" sort of stuff.

And LW...I mentioned backlash, didn't I? I don't expect saying please to do anything. I expect the results to be trumpeted everywhere, even if we don ald agree about whether they're a good thing. Berlin wall built in a different place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on January 31, 2016, 07:41:48 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 07:08:55 pm

See, it's the explicitly bit you two disagree on. Sacasco believes the racism is implied; "European lives are more important than non-European lives" sort of stuff.

One could very easily argue that, for the case of the elected leaders of a European country, this is true. At least true in the practical sense of distributing the state's limited time and resources. Helping foreigners isn't bad, but is helping foreigners more than their constituents are willing to go in for?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 07:43:22 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 07:08:55 pm

See, it's the explicitly bit you two disagree on. Sacasco believes the racism is implied; "European lives are more important than non-European lives" sort of stuff.

Our humanities Unis literally teach how to fight the white man, how it is impossible to be racist against Europeans and how Europeans are inherently shit. Way I see it, the implication is Euros are worthless, and everyone else is superior, they aren't allowed opinions on their own countries - any such arguments are inherently racist. The whole reaction that all the rape victims were actually racists so they should be ignored didn't even surprise me at all
It seems bizarre in some cheeki breeki way that only culturally enriched folk like myself can get away with speaking honestly whilst white people are pretty much fucked from the start, I really want to see if they have our TV show "Free Speech" paid for our state on youtube, when some girl started talking about how her friend was raped by Pakistanis the crowd started booing her o-O
Like you have to rack up your diversity points on the progressive stack before you even begin talking shit about our proud diverse multicultural experiment

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 07:08:55 pm

And LW...I mentioned backlash, didn't I? I don't expect saying please to do anything. I expect the results to be trumpeted everywhere, even if we don ald agree about whether they're a good thing. Berlin wall built in a different place.

Yeah you mentioned backlash, but I just contend any such trumpeted results to be tokens of appeasement to old Conservatives before they die of failure and old age. Sort of like with Turkey, where Merkel said Germany did not need to Orban Borban because they'd just force Erdogan to keep their immigrants in Turkey in exchange for allowing Turks visa-less travel into Europe and some pretty euroshekels to help with refugee costs, then Erdogan just gave Germany the immigrants and Turks on top in exchange. It's token action to keep people complacent enough to keep things going long enough

In the end there will only be Orbans Borbaning everywhere with Poles dropping the bass

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 31, 2016, 07:56:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 07:43:22 pm

It seems bizarre in some cheeki breeki way that only culturally enriched folk like myself can get away with speaking honestly whilst white people are pretty much fucked from the start, I really want to see if they have our TV show "Free Speech" paid for our state on youtube, when some girl started talking about how her friend was raped by Pakistanis the crowd started booing her o-O
Like you have to rack up your diversity points on the progressive stack before you even begin talking shit about our proud diverse multicultural experiment

And don't forget, you have to have the right kinds of diversity points in order to talk about certain things. Like apparently being of black Caribbean heritage makes it okay to criticise things to do with African Americans, but not about Arabs. And criticising Islam is right out unless it's specifically in defence of women and even then only if you make sure to say #notallmuslims every other sentence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 31, 2016, 07:57:59 pm

*sigh*
Crazy people everywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:13:12 pm

Quote from: Graknorke on January 31, 2016, 07:56:30 pm

And don't forget, you have to have the right kinds of diversity points in order to talk about certain things. Like apparently being of black Caribbean heritage makes it okay to criticise things to do with African Americans, but not about Arabs. And criticising Islam is right out unless it's specifically in defence of women and even then only if you make sure to say #notallmuslims every other sentence.

Interestingly ex-Muslims exist in some purgatory where you're not allowed to criticize them but you're also not allowed to let them criticize Islam, so you're just supposed to try and brush them away so they don't exist. One of the major things as well is trying to figure out what happens with Christian Nigerians who fled Muslim persecution but then attack Muslims in the UK, because then you have to talk about Islamophobia without being racist to Nigerians


*FOUND IT! Oh the pain:
Does the UK have rape culture? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lErO9lp201Q)
Perfectly sums up the thunderous applaud given to covering up the enriching rape gangs, especially horrendous in hindsight considering how all of them were proven hideously wrong. The first one saying Rochdale was covered up because of rape culture and not because of PC, fug I am ded
The fact that they had the audacity to call the show Free Speech to boot is worse than Hitler

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 31, 2016, 08:15:14 pm

If you want a good example of that, you could try and watch the trash that is The Big Questions that was on Sunday. Was about Islam and yeah the apostate guests were basically ignored.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:13:12 pm

*FOUND IT! Oh the pain:
Does the UK have rape culture? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lErO9lp201Q)

Fuck it, just enrich me now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:30:09 pm

Poor guys, they've got no voice and edgy conservatives don't care about them and toleran progresiv find their entire existence problematic. Purgatory really seems like an apt description, I was particularly harrowed by that one poor Afghan who actually got deported from Sweden because he was upsetting the Muslims, they don't treat apostates well in Afghanistan :/

Spoiler: Abandon hope lest ye be crushed (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/DGF4pCl.png)

I don't even want to watch the Big Q on that, but I feel some disastrous compulsion to enrich my shit up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on January 31, 2016, 08:36:10 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:30:09 pm

Afghan who actually got deported from Sweden because he was upsetting the Muslims, they don't treat apostates well in Afghanistan :/

Was he in that show or did you hear about that from somewhere else?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:48:16 pm

Show, though looking it up there's some Christian News sources talking about other Pakistani and Iranian converts getting deportation orders issued even though such a deportation is likely to result in bad ends
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/October/Pakistani-Christians-Sweden/
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/june/sweden-grants-iran-christian-reza-jabbari-asylum/?mobile=false
Apparently this news channel did some fierce bitching and got this to happen:
"The Swedish government had previously ordered Jabbari to be deported despite his Christian testimony.
Jabbar's pastor, Cai Berger, says CBN News's story about Jabbari's situation changed the political climate for Christian refugees seeking asylum in Sweden."
Tbh I've never heard of him or this news channel until now, did you notice any political climate changing Scriver?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 08:51:57 pm

I just realized something.

The perfect solution to this problem.

We just need to give Trump to you guys.

If Europe is being terrorized by progressives, and America is being terrorized by even the idea of Trump getting to be president and having access to nuclear weapons (no really I want you to think about that man being in command of the US nuclear arsenal, that should scare everyone, American or not), and yet he's been disturbingly difficult to stop, much like the immigration problem, we just need to smash the one into the other. His platform is basically already purpose-built for handling the situation.

DONALD TRUMP FOR EU CHANCELLOR

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:56:59 pm

Can't, we have mass deb8s over whether we should make him illegal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 09:00:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 08:56:59 pm

Can't, we have mass deb8s over whether we should make him illegal

Trump would end those debates. And make Eurmerica great again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2016, 09:02:10 pm

Also France and Germany are Ameriphobes and the UK would not risk Trump accidentally making the EU powerful

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on January 31, 2016, 09:03:53 pm

There's never a bad time to invade mainland Europe. Someone's been doing it since basically forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 31, 2016, 09:04:54 pm

Germany is not really Ameriphobe (?) though. We do have a fairly large chunk of population with that sort of bias, but the People Who Matter are all firm transatlantics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 31, 2016, 10:35:33 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 08:51:57 pm

I just realized something.

The perfect solution to this problem.

We just need to give Trump to you guys.

If Europe is being terrorized by progressives, and America is being terrorized by even the idea of Trump getting to be president and having access to nuclear weapons (no really I want you to think about that man being in command of the US nuclear arsenal, that should scare everyone, American or not), and yet he's been disturbingly difficult to stop, much like the immigration problem, we just need to smash the one into the other. His platform is basically already purpose-built for handling the situation.

DONALD TRUMP FOR EU CHANCELLOR

I burst out laughing when I read this post.

Yes.

Do it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on February 01, 2016, 01:42:27 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 08:51:57 pm

I just realized something.

The perfect solution to this problem.

We just need to give Trump to you guys.

If Europe is being terrorized by progressives, and America is being terrorized by even the idea of Trump getting to be president and having access to nuclear weapons (no really I want you to think about that man being in command of the US nuclear arsenal, that should scare everyone, American or not), and yet he's been disturbingly difficult to stop, much like the immigration problem, we just need to smash the one into the other. His platform is basically already purpose-built for handling the situation.

DONALD TRUMP FOR EU CHANCELLOR

That's so crazy it just might work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 01, 2016, 05:47:54 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 31, 2016, 08:51:57 pm

I just realized something.

The perfect solution to this problem.

We just need to give Trump to you guys.

If Europe is being terrorized by progressives, and America is being terrorized by even the idea of Trump getting to be president and having access to nuclear weapons (no really I want you to think about that man being in command of the US nuclear arsenal, that should scare everyone, American or not), and yet he's been disturbingly difficult to stop, much like the immigration problem, we just need to smash the one into the other. His platform is basically already purpose-built for handling the situation.

DONALD TRUMP FOR EU CHANCELLOR

Yeah, because every problem with the immigration crisis just boils down to racism, right?

No thanks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on February 01, 2016, 09:03:21 am

"Immigrant" is not a race.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 01, 2016, 09:26:49 am

Nobody said it was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on February 01, 2016, 10:22:29 am

rpgeek didn't even mention racism  :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on February 01, 2016, 10:30:33 am

He did not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on February 01, 2016, 11:46:47 am

I was confused as to where scriver's accusation of accusing someone(I think?) of racism came from. Still am.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 01, 2016, 11:51:38 am

Trump is racist, so him being the answer to Europe's problems is because they are racists who just want to get rid of the "blacks".

That's how I contexted/interpreted rpgeek's post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on February 01, 2016, 11:59:25 am

I'm pretty sure it was in reference to Trump's giant border wall idea. Something running completely counter to what our toleran an progresiv friends would ever want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ardas on February 02, 2016, 07:16:32 am

Yes, let us build a wall under the Mediterranean and block of the sea access - it will surely make a difference!

On a serious note, EU sucks as a border control force. Let each state worry about its own borders, to the full extent of the law and beyond, if that's what it takes to protect order in the country. Schengen failed and unless someone comes up with a good replacement, EU shot itself in the foot by destroying one of its own pillars through ineffective handing of the situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2016, 07:23:42 am

I wouldn't really mind national borders being reinstated. But I have been arguing for that long before there was a refugee crisis. Schengen has made Europe a paradise for illegal trafficking of just about anything, from guns and explosives, and drugs, to child sex slaves. Organised crime has never been as easy and profitable. I daresay that reinstating border checks would seriously damage IS's economy, by bankrupting criminal rings that support them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 01:14:47 pm

Quote from: Ardas on February 02, 2016, 07:16:32 am

Yes, let us build a wall under the Mediterranean and block of the sea access - it will surely make a difference!

Shit use of resources, didn't stop the allies, what does stop boats are naval patrols which we already did, then the EU went full retard and disabled everything, then when things went to shit said we need naval patrols... Under the EU flag. At any rate you use fences and walls for the land, and most people ignore the whole element of guarding the borders within Africa and Asia. How funny would it be if Libyan jihadists on their way to Nigeria or Central Africa hit a Trump^tm wall and had to pay for it? I suppose in this case it'd probably be more of a good luck Ebele wall or something.

Quote from: Ardas on February 02, 2016, 07:16:32 am

On a serious note, EU sucks as a border control force. Let each state worry about its own borders, to the full extent of the law and beyond, if that's what it takes to protect order in the country.

It would be funny to see something like the Italian temporary administration intercepting every single boat they could and bringing them all to Italy to fuck Germany and Sweden over doubly instead fucking themselves over doubly when they can't wander off north. Still sucks for the Italians though, they didn't even vote for that government hahahaha

Though to be fair the ones they vote for are hardly corruption-free paragons of public service either, you lose or you lose the ruse is too loose

Quote from: Ardas on February 02, 2016, 07:16:32 am

Schengen failed and unless someone comes up with a good replacement, EU shot itself in the foot by destroying one of its own pillars through ineffective handing of the situation.

National democracy sounds like a pretty good replacement here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 02, 2016, 02:49:38 pm

Seems to be a lot of sensationalist, unverified stories on both sides of the issue. For once, America can point and laugh at Europe when it comes to crappy biased media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 02, 2016, 03:18:07 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 02, 2016, 03:14:20 pm

And Canada can continue to laugh at everyone for having issues with immigration.

For now, anyway.

Just wait till we get Trump elected. :P
Totally gonna happen, guys. I can see you shaking in your boots!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 02, 2016, 03:20:26 pm

Hey, if even Finland is having a migrant crisis, its only a matter of time. Hellish cold, bears, and forests obviously aren't a sufficient deterrent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 02, 2016, 03:24:49 pm

The year is 2020. The human race has decided that they don't like the heat after all. The entire population now lives in massive underground cities at the poles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 03:25:30 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 02, 2016, 02:49:38 pm

Seems to be a lot of sensationalist, unverified stories on both sides of the issue. For once, America can point and laugh at Europe when it comes to crappy biased media.

Hahaha no, that's pulling the pin off of a grenade in a glass house

Quote from: Covenant on February 02, 2016, 02:16:01 pm

So certain sources are now saying that the story Martin posted about a gang running through central Stockholm and attacking refugee children was partially made up by Aftonbladet, and then this misinformation was spread by all the other news organisations.

A Dutch progresiv reporting on the English progresiv reporting on an English progresiv reporting on the Belgian progresiv downplaying the murder of a Swedish woman at her own refugee centre workplace based off of completely unverified anonymous speculation being made up?

Do you honestly think people would spread misinformation like that? Impossible. Swedish news has proved to be so reliable as of late xD

And in sadder news, rather symbolic of Germany's fate, an Arab refugee got rather angry with some woman after she spurned his generous and gentlemanly advances. When some old pensioners intervened, they got culturally enriched. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135497/Migrants-attack-pensioners-who-stood-up-for-woman-they-were-harassing-on-Munich-metro.html) Where are the young German men?

Quote from: Ispil on February 02, 2016, 03:14:20 pm

And Canada can continue to laugh at everyone for having issues with immigration.
For now, anyway.

Trudeau dat, they are so progresiv for the current year, why haven't they taken in millions of immigrants, they sound pretty racist tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 02, 2016, 03:32:41 pm

[Immigrates maliciously]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on February 02, 2016, 03:35:53 pm

Apparently the refugee situation will cost Germany around 50 billion euros in 2016-2017

Now I still hold that for 50 billion we could have easily supported Jordania Lebanon and Turkey into improving the refugee situation there (and the majority IS STILL THERE in abysmal conditions now)  and solved the issue locally.

http://www.rp-online.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-kosten-deutschland-50-milliarden-euro-aid-1.5732479

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 03:45:43 pm

Quote from: Antioch on February 02, 2016, 03:35:53 pm

Apparently the refugee situation will cost Germany around 50 billion euros in 2016-2017

Now I still hold that for 50 billion we could have easily supported Jordania Lebanon and Turkey into improving the refugee situation there (and the majority IS STILL THERE in abysmal conditions now)  and solved the issue locally.

http://www.rp-online.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-kosten-deutschland-50-milliarden-euro-aid-1.5732479

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: WHAT EVEN IS LIFE on November 03, 1975, 08:55:54 pm

By 2015 Merkel inquires whether Germany is losing that which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/merkel-under-fire-as-refugee-crisis-in-germany-worsens-a-1060720.html) By then the rate of immigration had its estimate increased from 800,000 to 1,500,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34442121), measured only by those who claimed asylum - excluding those who did not register. That number also does not include those logged as immigrants, legal or illegal. The number for Europe as a whole is set to increase to 3,000,000 in 2016 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-expecting-another-3-million-refugees-migrants-before-end-of-2016-a6722096.html), though I wonder how many times that number will be revised and how many will go to Germany. This will cost Germany by current estimates 17 billion euros (http://www.econotimes.com/The-overall-fiscal-cost-of-asylum-immigration-to-Germany-104404). Contrast with the UK, who has much less money to spend than Germany, who at a time where they have cut social spending for their own subjects have spent nothing short of a billion sterling actually helping those fleeing war (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-to-see-first-hand-how-uk-aid-is-helping-most-vulnerable-syrian-refugees). And that billion sterling have helped more, helped more in need - even helped those whose situations are so bad they cannot even flee war. Whilst countries like France, USA and UK kill smugglers, shut down smuggling rings in Europe, thwart terrorist smuggling actions and otherwise pay the price for Germans tearing away at national sovereignty - even fighting alongside and training Kurds and rebels to retake their lands everywhere from Nigeria to Ethiopia and Iraq, the only Germans who've done so have been volunteers, no state actors. Meanwhile after "Syrians" with fake syrian passports disappeared in Germany (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany-idUKKBN0U904D20151226) the Germans wasted no time in using this crisis to take control of other countries' borders by expanding Frontex's powers without the consent of the actual countries involved. So remember, having border control is racist unless you give it to the Germans.

The previous estimate went from 2,000,000,000 euros to 16-17,000,000,000 euros, now 50,000,000,000 euros?

I cannot believe how consistently I am guilty of downplaying this ruin o_O

SPEED IT UP, ACCELERATIONISM IS KING KAISER

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 03:45:43 pm

The previous estimate went from 2,000,000,000 euros to 16-17,000,000,000 euros, now 50,000,000,000 euros?

I cannot believe how consistently I am guilty of downplaying this ruin o_O

SPEED IT UP, ACCELERATIONISM IS KING KAISER

Perhaps 2 billion is for sheltering the refugees, the other 48 billion for psychological counselling for rape victims? German shrinks don't come cheap.
[/sarcasm]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 02, 2016, 04:03:41 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 02, 2016, 03:20:26 pm

Hey, if even Finland is having a migrant crisis, its only a matter of time. Hellish cold, bears, and forests obviously aren't a sufficient deterrent.

(I know you jest, but for those who can't into geography)

(http://i.imgur.com/PlnrOpk.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 04, 2016, 05:09:09 pm

So it turns out terrible people can be produced by countries with a terrible moral system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2016, 09:59:42 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 04, 2016, 05:11:23 pm

I've always wondered why people are shocked that when there's a dramatic spike in a micropopulation, that crimes done by said micropopulation also dramatically spikes. Now, it's arguable that the spike in crime is disproportionate to the spike in the micropopulation, but I'll wait on data on that topic before coming to any conclusions.

They're probably shocked because they live in homogeneous communities waving diverse enrichment flags with all sense of risk assessment having dulled into nothingness from having lived a life without being so much as punched in the face by a cheeki breeki lad, such miraculous lands where the greatest threat to society are stray cat ladies or natural aristocrat chemsex orgies having broken out of their containment cells. Like Rome, before and after German barbarians set everything on fire, only without Rome's sense of threat assessment - a Rome of pure safety where everything is coated in safe spaces of fluffy insulation, where the harsh cold weather is made redundant by Grandma's sweet cookies, woolen sweaters, and problematic liberties given way to muh like, muh toleran, everything is good and EPIC. Golden retriever girls happily cheering to signal they are the most moral saviour of the oppressed subhumans, gazelles reaching up to kiss the lion even as they lambast the buffalo for being a predator, just as a guppy mocks a carp to prove it is the most virile, only with less sense and even worse memory. Whilst walking through this soulless street of mine, which once others called their own, I was accosted by a self-described 'meme slut' who thought we should give the British of the Falklands to the sons of Spanish conquistadors, that we should disband our military even as it broke the siege of Mt. Sinjar, that we should destroy the capital for its sheer capitalist capital in order to make room for refugees housed in all houses not her own (for indeed she owned none). I could only utter that true memes support Israel, and eloped to eat free Nandos in the horrid sight of a moustached-woman, who in truth was more a man with long hair, only with zero character of a man, having never worked a single day or shaved a single hair on its head.

Micropopulations are micro. There are less of them. Less than the density of moustache hairs upon this genderfluid stray cat lady. This is such a quantity that it has already made majorities of broken Swedish cities, and I long for the day when I am able to make puns of international Stockholm syndrome. This is a quantity that is far more akin to the hairs of blue-dyed armpit trees, waving forth from bingo wings flapped like South American birds, grown fat from a lack of predators - this is known as island gigantism. Simply put this is like calling the Chinese minorities even when there are billions of them, they are only minorities to privileged white Americans.

If you can't tell, all this talk about the worst of humankind is exhausting, and makes the mind tire for other topics.


Malaysia and the Swiss (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35468786) are working together to try and find out where billions of dollars from Malaysian state-firms went, with the Malaysian people suspecting their corrupt government of having misappropriated funds. A small amount of this money went to Switzerland, probably up there with missing nazi gold. Switzerland, the USA, Hong Kong and Singapore are investigating. Also the Malaysian-Swiss ambassador died of liver-cancer (https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/329307), which doesn't help things at all. The reason why this has become such a major stress point between Malaysia and Switzerland is because the Malay government wanted to keep this scandal hushed at a time when Malay people were already getting angry about bribes given to government officials and the Swiss said fuck that we're doing it live, (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f399858c-c7f7-11e5-84df-70594b99fc47.html#axzz3zG3tUJrP) wrecking any attempt of the PM's butthole to remain unhurt. That was quite unusually morally studious of the Swiss.

Oh, and David Cameron announced his EU negotiation plan to the UK.
A draft EU deal hailed by David Cameron as delivering "substantial changes" to Britain's relationships with the bloc has been condemned with near unanimity this week (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/02/04/eu-referendum-leave-leads-nine/), as the press closed in on qualifications and concessions to the Prime Minister's original plan. Chief among disappointments is the number of legislative hurdles that must be passed in order to implement a four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU migrants, and a new requirement that benefits should increase over time.

New YouGov research for The Times reveals the negative press has pushed Leave significantly ahead, now leading Remain by nine points, up from four last week. It's too early to say if the lead will persist or subside after David Cameron's crunch talks in Brussels on February 18, but after listing the contents of the draft deal and asking how people would vote if the changes are agreed at the meeting Leave's lead falls to three (41% leave, 38% remain).

A new YouGov/Times poll conducted in the immediate aftermath of negative headlines over David Cameron's EU deal has Leave leading with 45% as Remain falls to 36%.

REMOVE CUCKERON, LEAVE HYPE GET

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 04, 2016, 10:15:49 pm

brexit when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2016, 10:35:39 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on February 04, 2016, 10:15:49 pm

brexit when

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/WmQNXRn.png)

Soon

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on February 04, 2016, 11:30:14 pm

Hey British ppl, just out of curiosity, how would Hillary Clinton compare to Margaret Thatcher?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2016, 12:36:35 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 04, 2016, 11:30:14 pm

Hey British ppl, just out of curiosity, how would Hillary Clinton compare to Margaret Thatcher?

They are very different kinds of leaders. Thatcher led Britain out of economic paralysis, pushing Britain through one war that should have been impossible to win, pushing Britain from an industrial society to a financial centre of the world, surviving close assassination attempts, correctly gauged that the European Community was moving from a trade union to an attempt at subverting the nation state to create a European superstate, kept the UK out of the exchange rate mechanism (which turned into the euro, meaning today of all EU countries only the UK still controls its currency, the rest are controlled by Germany) despite critics saying this would kill the British economy (London says no, get rekt), dealt a deathblow to communism in the UK which still has not fully recovered to this day. More controversial moves she made as well, like crushing the trade unions that were trying to prop up the ailing industries Thatcher was replacing with the services sector and pissing off the Oxbridge academics (always a good thing). She even had voice coaching to command the respect of Parliament, and had no shortage of witty banter at her disposal. She very much earned her moniker, the Iron Lady, crushing obstacles in her path. Despised by feminists despite being a woman who clawed her way to the top at a time she believed men were too prejudiced to vote for her. Confrontational, bold and confident, she was ultimately undone from within her own party, as a result of a large portion of tories discontent with Thatcher's staunch opposition against European Integration - the tories who today are led by a Prime Minister in favour of European integration, whilst the party is discontent with the Prime Minister's support of European Integration.

Hillary Clinton on the other hand is a slippery fish. Like el Teflon, no criticism sticks on her due to her mastery human rights' advocacy and women's rights advocacy to win over the ilk of Oxbridge academics, the exact opposite of Thatcher's inability to manipulate the public. Though she did not hesitate to use military force, she also emphasized the US using economic means, aid, technology and progressive narratives as well as media dominance to neutralize obstacles, just as she adopted social media to neutralize her own obstacles. Likewise the underlings she attracts are very shrewd fellows, just as shrewd as she, capable of making foes fight amongst foes for her benefit. Though she has not yet taken command of a nation, it is interesting to note that both President Clinton and President Obama both made use of and were reliant on Hillary Clinton's extensive network of interconnected networks of powerful and experienced people, just look at her super PAC juggernaut to see she has connections. And while she has not yet commanded the USA in a time of war, her defence of her vote to authorize the Iraq war and her speech that accepted responsibility for the Benghazi attack that simultaneously did not cause demoralization would mark her out to be a capable military leader as well. One thing I do not like about her is actually one of her strengths that I respect her for, her slippery character. Whilst Thatcher was confrontational and blunt, Clinton is a more refined Trump, having mastered rhetoric better than Obama, and having a mastery of deflecting, spinning and redirecting to progressive narratives, where before she had mastered redirecting to neocon narratives. She is the Teflon Lady. Should she win the race to Presidency, she will not be taking over an economically dire USA as Thatcher did with the UK, as the USA is still the wealthiest country in the world. But she would be taking over a USA that is definitively no longer the unipolar world-leader it once was, and she may find some trouble from Bernie remnants within the democrats. I doubt she'll have much problem at all handling a defeated Republican party, or hauling the democrats through a victorious Republican party. Should be interesting to see what she gets up to, she does not seem tethered to any philosophies or political leanings beyond practicality. Oh, and she's quite careless when it comes to security. I'm not just talking Benghazi, I mean her use of her private emails. As one whose career is built upon security, this is quite silly. Hopefully she has learned from these errors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2016, 05:21:25 am

When Thatcher died, "ding dong the witch is dead" shot up the UK music charts, should show you how popular she was lol, and yeah when she shut down British industries - some of them were still profitable when they were axed. Also deepening the north-south divide, completely valid points, from which there is no defence. Even after the wounds have healed, the scars remain. Though I do think an industrial Britain would not have been able to survive on its own the same way a financial Britain has just dominated Europe with its visions of stability and security in an unstable Europe. I wouldn't even say it's trickle down economics as London is self feeding (or self cannibalizing, unfortunately). I do agree with diversification, both in economic sectors and in trying to get Birmingham up to par with London, with the caveat I believe such development should be focused more upon energy, intellectual property and high-tech manufacturing as there's just no point in trying to compete with the Chinese on their playing field as the Italians are trying to do. I mean hell, what few manufacturing jobs we still have are mostly all being moved overseas or already have been moved overseas as it's cheaper to hire Indians or Chinese to do the same jobs and bring the products back to the UK, so we would've only been delaying the inevitable. Also that 5-10% of our population that we couldn't feed with our own produce, yeah we should make that 0%. On the topic of posh tories loving her, I actually knew some rich English gentleman who fit every stereotype and loved her with far too much passion to merely be a political admiration, ha! But when you look at the Unions, they toppled Callaghan and they would've toppled Thatcher too were she as weak. As a what if, I wonder if UK as an industrial country could have any chance of standing up to a unified industrial Germany, whereas a financial UK comes out on top no question every time. Also when the Unions are toppling parliament, it really was a matter of time before parliament toppled the Unions

Also I'd say appearances are deceiving with Hillary, you know in that sense that water has no toughness yet it cuts through and around mountains all the same. She did not turn politics into identity politics, that happened from the ground up through progressive academia and progressive America in general. She has masterfully caught the winds of change in her sail to power herself through, she does not command the wind though (so you can see a noticeable shift in her rhetoric from pandering to Evangelical neocons to Progressive liberals, as one took over the mantle from the other). She doesn't have strong policies yes, but that is because she holds no loyalty to any party politics or philosophy, she is very much a true neutral statesman (though of course, not neutral). And of course she is establishment, but let's face it if she can get into power off of being a woman and the current year she would be a fool not to exploit the current year's ethos, and she may be careless but she is no fool. Agreed that she is not principled, but with that utter lack of principle comes a total embracement of possibility, she can fulfil any agenda she wishes as long as she has the power for it. I find it detestable, but I can at the very least respect an able leader when I see one, and I would not expect to be writing something like this, probably the closest I'll get to endorsing Hillary, ha. Is Hillary's influence on politics overall going to be good? No, but she is capable enough to not run the USA down into the ground, hopefully capable enough to also not bring Europe down. She has her ruthlessness, and she has a mastery of her public image. Consider all the demerits on her record and how all the interviewees focus on "but woman!" Underestimate her talent at your peril, her ability to adapt and deflect is not through luck, and one can always appreciate the skill of a skilful villain

Also yeah, I don't find them similar at all too. Very different in almost every way except for the fact that they're both women who studied law

Also pls no bully Nick Clegg, he's suffered enough

Spoiler: His smile and optimism: gone (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/pQewrMX.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 05, 2016, 07:13:43 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 02:54:05 am

Hillary, by contrast, doesn't appear strong at all. She seems to have pitched her lot in with the victimization-crowd, turning politics into 'identity politics' and parroting silly slogans about the wage gap and similar nonsense to get votes. That doesn't come off as strong to me.

Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Someone who calmly and pragmatically puts up with Bill's antics for decade after decade is not much of a feminist, let alone a trigger-happy "SJW."

...also,

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2016, 12:36:35 am

thatcher making fast rap magic in malvinas

have some cheeki trollisseys. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smzsIONNh0w)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2016, 07:19:30 am

Aye, just look at the UK - you know your Bernie, we have a guy like that in the UK called Corbyn who actually took control of our left-wing opposition party, causing a ruinous schism that at the very least was entertaining if disheartening. Anyways during this rift he got shit because he promised to make half of his cabinet women, and in the end he did, only all the positions of real power were given to men who shared his philosophy. The sexism card was played, but it didn't stick, not any average joe can play identity politics like a pro, Clinton's mastered it

*EDIT

These polls are getting silly

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/9CtiWVi.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on February 05, 2016, 01:38:02 pm

I don't know, the stuff the Tories did within a day of winning a majority made me think that perhaps Clegg wasn't as useless as we thought he was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 05, 2016, 04:10:51 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/05/465699842/gone-mot-the-french-uproar-over-removing-some-circumflex-accents

people are apparently freaking out but it doesn't seem like something worth getting worked up about. seems like its as if English dropped all the random silent letters. simplifying yes. dumping down no. could we get a Frenchmen in here to have some input?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 07, 2016, 01:11:46 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on February 05, 2016, 04:10:51 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/05/465699842/gone-mot-the-french-uproar-over-removing-some-circumflex-accents

people are apparently freaking out but it doesn't seem like something worth getting worked up about. seems like its as if English dropped all the random silent letters. simplifying yes. dumping down no. could we get a Frenchmen in here to have some input?

Cucking millipede strikes again, commies need to stop trying to engineer people through language, it didn't work with the USSR and it didn't work with China and it hasn't worked with PC, it fucking fails in doing anything but make sexy language into stupid language

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

True enough. Much as I dislike her, I shouldn't paint her as incompetent; as you've said, she definitely is shrewd. But I stand by my opinion that she's not strong - she's a leader who'll react and sail through, rather than one who will plot a course and lead. Given how entrenched corruption and lobbying is in Washington, is that what America needs right now? (We all know what America really needs, and it's unstumpable).

Fair enough, she is a puppet, but if the USA wants to be a puppet that is not our choice to make

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

I also largely agree with your assessment of where the UK should diversify itself (though there's more UK north of Birmingham, you cheeky southerner).

My sides are in orbit

There is, but cities like Birmingham are already major financial centres of the world, have massive workpools of skilled workers already, have decent enough infrastructure, and have the added symbolism of being the past industrial centres of Britain, the perfect place to start a neo-industrial revolution. Manchester as well is high up there for the same reasons as Birmingham, the more Northwards you go the more the fields to focus on change to focusing on elite quality and marketing (and educating, the North was famous for being an intellectual centre of the world, and it still is - it would be great if EU students didn't get a free ride whilst everyone from NI Wales and England got shafted heh). The North could also do with some cultural enrichment and incentives to increase population, but having learned from the failed cultural enrichment from the past, efforts should focus on attracting skilled workers, incentivizing local families to have more kids, and using the North's prestigious education and financial incentives to attract bright students from around the world. Skilled workers arriving are skilled workers, less likely to be criminal due to socioeconomic factors (because they'll be well-off) and so the risk of any imported violence would just be political, and the benefits would most likely overcome the downsides. Incentivizing local families makes sense as it preserves the local culture and produces more Britons, native or of immigrant descent otherwise, who'll be born into the culture and will uphold their hometowns with fervour. Incentivizing students to come around to study in the northern cities will also make them feel attached to their city after 3-4 years of studying, partying and reveling, so they'll have an emotional connection that will mean they won't just immediately take a flight home or take up a job in London as opposed to trying to work out in their adopted city - even better if it's some course that offers job training/job placements within the course. I don't see much opposition to this kind of cultural enrichment, because it'd actually be all the good things previous social engineers said would happen, that didn't happen, because social engineers a shit.

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

I'd also add high-tech research along with the manufacturing, as we still manage to compete with the best despite being such a small country. There's still a place for low-end manufacturing though, I think, even if we have to subsidise it. It'd have to be limited, obviously, but I think the social benefits would be worth it. I'd rather spend my tax money subsidising a factory in Newcastle than paying for more cultural enrichment, or giving foreign aid to countries with their own space programs, or funding the BBC to do a self-congratulatory review on themselves for not hiring any paedos for the last six months.

Oh yeah, that's true. I was wrong to conclude that all low-end manufacturing couldn't compete with China, because though that's true we could always subsidize low-end manufacturing that is vital to key areas of our state. Things like making the steel for our tanks and fleet, or the parts for our aircraft, those are things we cannot rely on foreign countries for the sole purpose that it defeats the purpose to have an armed force that can force nothing. Just look at Argentina, where their fleet is rusting to pieces because they were reliant on the UK for replacement parts we don't give them xD
There is definitely room for unprofitable industries that are nonetheless vital, just as the NHS is unprofitable - the purpose is not to profit, but to benefit the people of the UK. I think we should still continue sending our foreign aid, even to countries with space agencies (Nigeria's space agency is not exactly NASA), when other nations suffer, so too does us all - we have a duty to help all people of the commonwealth or else there'd be no point in having it at all. One of these days we may need their help, and they will remember how generously, or how frugally we gave them when they were in need.

Also we need to give more money to our space agency. And we are :DDDDDDDD

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

Getting into completely off-the-deep-end thinking here, I've actually thought for quite a while that one of the best things we could do is foster a stronger alliance with Japan. And I say that as a grown-up, serious person, not the SNES JRPG fanboy of my youth. I just think we have a lot in common; small island nations ostracised from those around us, with a history of being technologically innovative. Both countries have a sense of nationalistic pride, even if it's being daily eroded here. And I think the people of both nations have a certain view of themselves that would make us more amenable to and more effective in such an alliance. Our so-called 'special relationship' with the USA is beneficial, sure, but with the USA being so much bigger than we are it's obvious that we'll never be regarded as equals - never made more obvious than when Blair was mooning around Bush like a dog.

I don't think we need an equal relationship with the USA, particularly whilst the USA is clearly the equal of no other nation on the planet, and China is only equal with the USA whilst it is on home turf. Though I also agree we should not be pursuing Blairite devotion to the USA, just as we declined the quagmire of Vietnam, independence is valuable for a reason, and Obama was just taking the mick selling our nuclear serials to Russia :|. It would be interesting to formalize our friendliness with Japan, but I think informal friendliness is better. Japan already has the protection of the USA, so ours is quite unnecessary, and we would have to complicate our relationships with Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and China in order to formally side with Japan. All the whilst our informal cooperation with Japan is already incredibly extensive, there are three cities whose fates are intertwined irregardless of their governments' regimes: New York, London and Tokyo, the illuminati triangle that surrounds the world in high-tech finance shenanigans. If we must deepen our formal ties, then I would continue to reaffirm our alliance with Australia, Singapore, Malaysia and New Zealand, whilst cooperating extensively both with Japan and China. The five waifus are strong m9

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

There's a lot that's different between ourselves and Japan, of course, and there are some worrying facets of Japanese society that I wouldn't like to see us import (their work-life balance is atrocious). And the caveat, of course, that they're halfway around the world from us. That doesn't exactly make trade easy.

Doesn't stop us with Singapore or Aussieland lol, the Suez canal is a gift to commerce. Plus in the event of the north thawing, we'll be neighbours! Ha, let's hope that doesn't happen.

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

Still, it's an avenue I'd love to explore. Entering into more joint ventures with them could allow us both to remain competitive in high-tech research and manufacturing in the long-term. And anything that makes us less reliant on trade with the EU is a good thing. Plus they drink tea and dislike immigration. Sounds pretty English to me.

I want to disable the EU's ability to control the United Kingdoms, but I do not want the EU as an enemy, and I am quite saddened they committed suicide so violently. We're already on good terms with Japan and doing joint-military exercises with them, so for all intents and purposes we're with them, though we don't have to piss of China publicly whilst doing so. Also do note, there is a difference between being self-reliant and declaring an embargo on Germany xD!
Recently we sent our defence secretary to Japan to meet theirs so at the very least we can say the Tories are Nippon friendly, and heck, Xi Jinping just visited the UK last year so the Tories are also Sino friendly. We should try to make sure both China and Japan are as wealthy and stable as possible, because when they are, so are we!
Also we should try and rescue Portugal and the Netherlands lol, but that's up to the Portuguese and Dutch to decide and we only to help

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

I could perhaps somewhat forgive Clegg, or at least temporarily forget about him, if not for the fact that I actually know good, intelligent people - people I went to uni with, for example - who voted for him again in the last election. My mind can't even process it, and all I can do is blame ol' Cleggy. (Actually, for that matter, Cleggy from LotSW would have been a better party leader than Nick Clegg).

Clegg was a chunder for the blunders, a gromit for vomit, cheese and crackers for cracked... Sick. He was a talented man without sufficient wisdom, ripipip in peace
The only thing I really, really, really hate him for was the fact that he set cacti on fire, fuck you you don't attack cacti like that. Of all progresiv and toleran, he is the one I respect the most. Funny, the guy spoke five languages, he would've made a good MP for any country that wasn't Britain, but needed to subjugate Britain. I fear if he had pursued a career in the European parliament and not in the British parliament, we would have no greater foe who understood how to crush British nationalism better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 08, 2016, 05:02:32 pm

What kind of aid the UK give to Israel, and how, considering Israel is the only stable country in the middle east, it destabilizes the middle east?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on February 08, 2016, 05:32:42 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on February 08, 2016, 05:02:32 pm

What kind of aid the UK give to Israel, and how, considering Israel is the only stable country in the middle east, it destabilizes the middle east?

The UK gives Israel ~8 billion pounds of aid, mostly in the form of favorable contracts for military hardware export licenses. There may be more, but if there is it's peanuts by comparison.

Israel is widely believed (I don't feel like examining the claim, but anyway all that matters here is that it's taken seriously) to take covert action against its neighbors, especially in the Middle East, and is known worldwide for openly taking bites out of them. If the Arab states can look beyond their own borders, it's fairly likely to be with an eye toward Israel; at least in the Israeli perception which is again all that really matters. The mistrust is both a cause and effect of Israel's actions, but with Israel so much more able to act things end up being a little bit disproportionate. They above all others stand to gain from a certain level of chaos in the area.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2016, 07:14:10 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

Easy there mate, there's the North and there's Scotland. One's the ancestral home of a proud, noble and dour people. The other's full of Scottish people.
SRSLY DOE, I partially disagree here. Places like Leeds and York are already very attractive cities to students, and make a good deal of their money from catering to those students and all their bacchanal desires. Appealing the educated elite is important, but it's already being done. Too much. The part we're falling behind in is working class adults. We can't just close our eyes and pretend the uneducated jobless masses don't exist, we have to deal with them (and not import any more of them). They're not going anywhere. Importing more skilled workers wouldn't be to the benefit of the people who've lived there for generations. It'd amount to gentrification, pretty much. And there've been plenty of examples in recent years of how that turns out. God knows I don't want to turn us into San Francisco.

True, Lord knows the academic elite have caused so much destruction across the world, but that's something that can be changed! It's not an appeal to them, it's an appeal to foreign students, who have loadsa money and lots of potential to become highly-skilled movers and shakers of tomorrow. Bringing in a few thousand doctors and engineers wouldn't make much of a difference if they're assimilated over time by a much larger native population, my ideal is not the "more more more" of uneducated foreign working class labour wanted. Also take a look at the great class survey (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/0/21970879), where the Beeb reckon old class definitions are a bit buggered so they made new ones. I'd be less worried about our current working class (not disrespectful or dismissive), and alongside saving our steel industry, focus on figuring out how to either get working class English kids on the right path to a technical trade, some financial work placement like brokerage, or if they've got the talent for it - academics (bring back grammar schools?). Things aren't perfect now, with unemployment falling, but there's a big thing where English kids are failing in London, and if that is replicated on the national level with all of the kids of the United Kingdom, well then the present will be fine whilst the future is fucked and the only competent people will be affluent minorities. A little wealth inequality is all right, but I don't want to push people's patience and tolerance you know?

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

And I'm wary of more 'cultural enrichment'. Poor kids aren't kept on the straight and narrow by theaters and museums - those are for the chattering classes - they're kept on it by prospects of a job, a trade that can go somewhere. And local initiatives like youth clubs, boxing clubs, football teams, etc. They don't need to be conned into getting a degree that'll do them absolutely no good, either. If there's a specific field they're interested in that requires one, sure, but when I was at uni there were plenty of people there, often the first ones in their family to go to university, who'd always been told that with a degree they were guaranteed a job - it didn't matter what KIND of degree, of course; EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION, right Mr Blair? - who came out of there and couldn't compete against the schoolleavers who'd been stacking shelves for three years.

They give free tuition for Nursing courses and the MOD offer scholarships. We should definitely raise more scholarships, or even go so far as to make STEM degrees in selective Unis free for students. The UK's always been on the cutting edginess of technology, we should keep it that way. Looking at earnings for trades by Union stats, the most profitable trades are Mining and Quarrying, followed by Finance and Insurance, IT, Electricity/Gas work, Scientific/Technical activities, public admin and defence e.t.c. in that order. All growing fields, and I don't know what more else you can do to make a promising situation a perfect one. Get foreign investment? More money, more jobs, that's how it usually goes.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

As for importing skilled workers... I think if you're importing enough for it to be even worth mentioning as a policy, then you'd be importing too many to practically limit it to actual skilled workers only. It's something to try, perhaps, but the answer to poverty in the North isn't turning Manchester into Bradford (seen the news from Keighley today, by the way? It's Rotherham 2: Electric Boogaloo).

Rotherham-tier gangs was everywhere, unless they found a second gang in Keighley... They haven't have they? Also Singapore and the pre-9/11 USA are/were very successful in attracting just skilled workers. Also think of Aussieland's points based system.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

So yeah, open a few more factories. And more vocational colleges (as opposed to prestigious universities needing 3 A's at A-level and such), really get back to the roots of the workers educating themselves in the Industrial Revolution. Give the English working class the opportunity and the tools to improve themselves, don't just write them off. All that talk about the 'Lost Generation' a couple of years back seriously irked me, because the response of the baby boomers was pretty much to shrug their shoulders, say 'Oh what a pity!', and then go back to moaning about the pension timebomb.

I was quite saddened by how vocational schools were so gutted. BOOMERS!

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

Yeah, I've got no problem with spending it on OUR space agency. That'll pay off hugely in the future, if we're smart about it and don't let Richard Garriott start steering the rocket ship. I just don't want to pay for India's.

If we don't pay for India's poor, their government likely won't. For starters there's fucking loads of them, whilst India's tax base is quite small and they do not want to harm their ludicrously expanding economy by scaring away their moguls with wealth distribution (which they can't effectively enforce, lacking a powerful justice system relatively free from corruption as the UK). There are also shadows of the caste system looming overhead, so their elite will not help their undercastes whilst foreigners have no issue. India is of the Commonwealth, its citizens are in need whilst its government is still developing and centralizing the country - this is the UK-USA path I was talking about earlier. India is rapidly growing, but it has not yet reached its full potential, it cannot yet fully support its own citizens. If we drop that aid, the risk of instability from central and western asia or southeast asia spreading into India would be the greatest horror in humanitarian catastrophe since the last Chinese civil war or WWII.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

As for the rest, I have mixed feelings. I'd like to support the Commonwealth - we have ties that are worth preserving if we can. They've helped us in the past, and perhaps they'll help us in the future. But being allies in a world war is different than us handing out pocket money. And it's hard to shake the feeling that in the modern age, we, as a country, are laughed at for being a soft touch. We're giving money to China and India, both countries with huge economies. And we're giving money to a myriad of smaller countries who are more a nuisance to us than anything resembling a help.

"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of a sheep." - Trywin Lannister
The Germans in WWI laughed at the British until their rifles opened fire. Not all problems can be solved by sending in the lads though, you can't grasp a butterfly in the grip of an iron fist, and Billy no mates die fast whilst the British still remain. Currently there are tens of millions of children already who have benefited off of British aid, the knock on effects of these kids growing up well and working for their nations will give them more wealth and allow them to provide for their own families and by extension, reach a point where their governments can provide for them. When you see they can't afford water, pencils, paper, soap - having to borrow a little more money to provide it for them keeps our civil servants busy and our humanitarian mission alive. Let the Germans call us racist, let the Russians call us cheeki monkeys, let the Chinese call us the setting sun, let the Americans forget we even exist. When millions of children every year can pick up a book they actually have the literacy to read, when they aren't dying from voiding their bowels or coughing up their lungs - who gives a fuck if we aren't thanked for it, we've undisputedly done the right thing. Plus some of our aid goes not towards making people dependent on us or their governments, but towards giving them the basic tools they need to stand on their feet and hold their government accountable for their actions. No poor nation can get foreign investment coming in in meaningful amounts with a corrupt government, and a corrupt government cannot be purged without either an authoritarian leader like Ataturk or Lee Kuan Yew or a grassroots movement by the people, who with access to the global economy can project their own power and link up with other like minded people.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

We still act as if we're the empire we once were, and we're not. We need to make our peace with being a small island nation and start living like it. It's not an absolute rule - there are cases where aid does buy us 'soft power' that we can use (or increase stability, preventing problems for us down the road), but I think we should drastically cut it down.

If that doesn't persuade you, for every sterling we send abroad, a Swedecuck remains unmolested. You can't put a pricetag on that :P

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

Especially when we're giving money and resources away when it goes directly counter to our interests. Like giving aid to Israel, while it's actively destabilising the Middle East (I had sources for this about 20 pages ago, too lazy to go back and find them. I imagine you read them then, anyway).

Ah yes, but to be fair and allow me to be the devil's JIDF here, they are doing the same as Iran, Saudi and Turkey, and we work extensively with all but Iran there. Once the hardline Zionist Warlords, the neo-Ottoman Imperialists and Salafist Fundamentalists die out and lose power, there will be much opportunity to rebuild without causing WWIII. Giving aid to Jihadists is hard to excuse, other than saying the US did it too, but I do know buying Israeli safety for aid is preferable to a Sampson option, in a similar way the US chucking aid at North Korea keeps them happy. Don't need to like them to know keeping them strong and stable is a good thing in the grand scheme of things, their implosion would be pure chaos.

Quote from: Covenant on February 05, 2016, 12:29:38 pm

You're saying he's not going to follow the rest of our backstabbing politicos and head off for a cushy EU position someday soon? I know it's been a bit cliché since Blair did it, but the oldies are still goodies.

Lol could you imagine poor Clegg getting barraged by the Farage in the Brussels banter circle? Nah, dude is a toxic brand now because of the "I'm sorry song" and all its baggage. And he's broken. Could not even handle one barrage right now. Maybe give it some time, or maybe after he immigrates to a European country (Nick for Swede President 2020).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 09, 2016, 02:47:01 am

Quote from: Baffler on February 08, 2016, 05:32:42 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on February 08, 2016, 05:02:32 pm

What kind of aid the UK give to Israel, and how, considering Israel is the only stable country in the middle east, it destabilizes the middle east?

The UK gives Israel ~8 billion pounds of aid, mostly in the form of favorable contracts for military hardware export licenses. There may be more, but if there is it's peanuts by comparison.

So, not aid at all then but a military trade agreement?
Or you suggest the UK let Israel sell them obsolete or redundant equipment? they buy intentionally overpriced stuff from Israel? they sell Israel military equipment at cheaper prices?

Sorry, but your argument is extremely, for lack of better word, ignorant. you have no idea what Israel sells to the UK, what the UK sells to Israel, what the market prices for the same quality of products are and what other financial elements have been introduced into those deals.

The only thing you can know for sure is that both the UK and Israel are technological advanced and have a lot to gain financially and technologically from mutual military trade agreements. It could very well be that the UK sell Israel cheap flight engines in return for cheap visual identification chips, automated drone chips and drone weapon systems. i don't know any specifics, i am just guessing here.

Quote

Israel is widely believed (I don't feel like examining the claim, but anyway all that matters here is that it's taken seriously) to take covert action against its neighbors, especially in the Middle East, and is known worldwide for openly taking bites out of them. If the Arab states can look beyond their own borders, it's fairly likely to be with an eye toward Israel; at least in the Israeli perception which is again all that really matters. The mistrust is both a cause and effect of Israel's actions, but with Israel so much more able to act things end up being a little bit disproportionate. They above all others stand to gain from a certain level of chaos in the area.

Duh, everyone takes covert actions against everyone else. the US and the UK have taken covert actions against Israel, Iran takes covert actions against everyone. Saudi Arabia and Qatar take covert actions against Israel, Syria, Iran and i guess that the US as well. i bet that if you look closely you'd see that the US take or taken covert actions against the UK. So what?

The question whether Israel has to gain from chaos in the middle east or not is not important, the important question is whether Israel caused or influenced the current chaos in the middle east and the answer is very simple: No.

The question whether Israel is right to mistrust its arabic neighbours is redundant. of course it does, those same neighbours keep saying Israel should mistrust them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 09, 2016, 06:32:53 am

I f you live in Munich, please go to your local bloodbank and donate blood.
Two trains crashed in a full speed frontal collision. At least 8 peope died, 150 people got injured, many critical. The Munich bloodbank is making an emergency appeal to residents to donate blood, because they don't have enough.

German authorities have no idea how this could happen. A very fatal track switch error. The trains collided in a curve in the woods, so they didn't even see each other coming, and didn't slow down. Both train drivers and machinists are dead, so we won't hear from them how this could have happened.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 09, 2016, 06:35:36 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35530538
Low speed head-on collision between two trains at Munich, all casualties have been removed from the trains, wedged together

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on February 09, 2016, 09:28:26 am

Quote from: Vilanat on February 09, 2016, 02:47:01 am

Quote from: Baffler on February 08, 2016, 05:32:42 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on February 08, 2016, 05:02:32 pm

What kind of aid the UK give to Israel, and how, considering Israel is the only stable country in the middle east, it destabilizes the middle east?

The UK gives Israel ~8 billion pounds of aid, mostly in the form of favorable contracts for military hardware export licenses. There may be more, but if there is it's peanuts by comparison.

So, not aid at all then but a military trade agreement?
Or you suggest the UK let Israel sell them obsolete or redundant equipment? they buy intentionally overpriced stuff from Israel? they sell Israel military equipment at cheaper prices?

Sorry, but your argument is extremely, for lack of better word, ignorant. you have no idea what Israel sells to the UK, what the UK sells to Israel, what the market prices for the same quality of products are and what other financial elements have been introduced into those deals.

The only thing you can know for sure is that both the UK and Israel are technological advanced and have a lot to gain financially and technologically from mutual military trade agreements. It could very well be that the UK sell Israel cheap flight engines in return for cheap visual identification chips, automated drone chips and drone weapon systems. i don't know any specifics, i am just guessing here.

What argument? Slow your roll, dude. You asked what the UK does for Israel, I Googled "UK aid to Israel" and found this. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/uk-government-reviews-arms-sales-israel-gaza) Plus a bunch of nonsense.

Quote

Quote

Israel is widely believed (I don't feel like examining the claim, but anyway all that matters here is that it's taken seriously) to take covert action against its neighbors, especially in the Middle East, and is known worldwide for openly taking bites out of them. If the Arab states can look beyond their own borders, it's fairly likely to be with an eye toward Israel; at least in the Israeli perception which is again all that really matters. The mistrust is both a cause and effect of Israel's actions, but with Israel so much more able to act things end up being a little bit disproportionate. They above all others stand to gain from a certain level of chaos in the area.

Duh, everyone takes covert actions against everyone else. the US and the UK have taken covert actions against Israel, Iran takes covert actions against everyone. Saudi Arabia and Qatar take covert actions against Israel, Syria, Iran and i guess that the US as well. i bet that if you look closely you'd see that the US take or taken covert actions against the UK. So what?

The question whether Israel has to gain from chaos in the middle east or not is not important, the important question is whether Israel caused or influenced the current chaos in the middle east and the answer is very simple: No.

The question whether Israel is right to mistrust its arabic neighbours is redundant. of course it does, those same neighbours keep saying Israel should mistrust them.

Again, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether or not Israel is actually destabilizing the region. The Arabs think they are, so they act accordingly. But that's only a tangent anyway. Since you seem to be looking for an argument, explain to me how being one of the area's most important regional powers with openly hostile relations with most of their neighbors somehow negates any possibility of malicious action on their part.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 09, 2016, 12:03:27 pm

Arabs hate of Israel has nothing to do with Israeli's policies, it has everything to do with Israel being full of the Mortal Enemy - Jews, and them owning Jerusalem with a couple of Islam's holy places in it, which will, accordingly to Arab preachers, will be destroyed by Jews very soon™, due to them being the Enemy of all "honest" Arab people everywhere.

And when Jews try to stop Arabs from throwing them off to the sea, the Arabs cry a bunch that "boo-hoo the evil Israel has totally been attacking us unprovoked". And since the lingering anti-Jewish attitudes haven't actually gone anywhere since WW2, this cry gets amplified and spread all over the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 09, 2016, 12:25:06 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 09, 2016, 06:32:53 am

German authorities have no idea how this could happen.

Hackers.

Islamic Terrorist Hackers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 09, 2016, 05:19:01 pm

Heard on the radio that the human element has failed: Some guy manually disabled the safety system put in place to prevent this type of accident to 'wave through' a train that was running late. Because of the track's location and surroundings, each driver had no chance of detecting the other train.

Then again, the passengers presumably were mostly Bavarians, so it's not that bad. Too soon?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 09, 2016, 05:33:47 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 09, 2016, 05:19:01 pm

Then again, the passengers presumably were mostly Bavarians, so it's not that bad. Too soon?

Ouch. You don't say?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 09, 2016, 06:12:16 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 09, 2016, 05:19:01 pm

Then again, the passengers presumably were mostly Bavarians, so it's not that bad. Too soon?

I take offense to this :P.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 09, 2016, 06:16:53 pm

Yes, Helgoland, too soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 06:46:08 am

Don't derail the thread Helgo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 10, 2016, 06:50:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 06:46:08 am

Don't derail the thread Helgo

I believe this wins the award for 'Things you lest expect to come from Loud Whispers.'  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 10, 2016, 06:55:10 am

Huh? 10/10 puns are something I've come to expect of him on a regular basis!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 07:20:22 am

...

I was going to say something witty but I lost my train of thought.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2016, 07:21:27 am

My face just had a head on collision with my palm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2016, 08:24:15 am

Guys, get back on track.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 08:25:39 am

Argh, why are you railing against the train puns?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on February 10, 2016, 08:28:51 am

There are no brakes on the pun train.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 08:35:33 am

The signals point to puns, yes...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 10, 2016, 08:42:44 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 10, 2016, 06:55:10 am

Huh? 10/10 puns are something I've come to expect of him on a regular basis!

I will admit that in this context it is very much something you'd expect from Loud Whispers.

Now imagine it at any other time.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 08:43:41 am

Indeed.  It'd be rather off-the-rails for him to suggest rerailing anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 10, 2016, 12:19:12 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/10/466265925/russian-opposition-leader-reportedly-attacked-by-men-with-cake

i don't get it. out of all the things to attack someone with. a cake?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2016, 12:20:01 pm

the cake is a lie

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 10, 2016, 01:06:54 pm

It's a reminder that they could have attacked him with knives and guns, whilst also ridiculing him, without the political problems of actually threatening/attacking him with knives and guns.

Or maybe they aren't Putinions, just moscovians who had cake but no knives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on February 10, 2016, 01:56:21 pm

Maybe it was actually yellowcake :O

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 02:39:55 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 08:58:41 pm

-snip-

I am doubtful that a Zoroastrian devil zombie apocalypse will happen so fingers crossed that end will be good, and finances may collapse multiple times in the future - but insurance lives on forever. Generally speaking I'm not sure how much you can plan for such scenarios as such scenarios by definition fubar everything. Though I guess it doesn't hurt to have some industries capable of surviving such collapses, even if only as a form of... Insurance.
And Academia has always been this odd. The only thing that's changed is there's more of them. It pains me that they go after the children, and it worries me that they teach them such ideologies to frame the entire world in. When it comes to Somalians sodomizing Swedes and the Swedes blaming Swedes for not being tolerant enough you know something's gone horribly right.

As for the topic of Israel, I believe as time goes on and Israel becomes an older state with clearer defined relationships with the rest of the world, it will settle down. I am willing to brush aside their retarded moments like when they tried to help the Argies win or shot up the American warship as their general anxiety from being surrounded by hostiles. If they go down, are they crazy enough to nuke Europe? Honestly, I wouldn't blame them for it, the fallout would improve the general atmosphere xD

I can't blame you for taking a break from the cultural enrichment pain train, it does get desensitizing after a while. Looking at fucking hundreds of victims who get brushed underfoot from the worst treatment, what worried me was that I had no reaction of anger to sexual emergency rapist. Just too jaded, it's all one big joke, with Europe as the punchline. Probably why I cling onto foreign aid as a principle so much, there must be that shred of hope and wisdom one must hold onto lest everything descend into the infinite madness of banterblivion.

Quote from: Vilanat on February 09, 2016, 02:47:01 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, not aid at all then but a military trade agreement?
Or you suggest the UK let Israel sell them obsolete or redundant equipment? they buy intentionally overpriced stuff from Israel? they sell Israel military equipment at cheaper prices?
Sorry, but your argument is extremely, for lack of better word, ignorant. you have no idea what Israel sells to the UK, what the UK sells to Israel, what the market prices for the same quality of products are and what other financial elements have been introduced into those deals.
The only thing you can know for sure is that both the UK and Israel are technological advanced and have a lot to gain financially and technologically from mutual military trade agreements. It could very well be that the UK sell Israel cheap flight engines in return for cheap visual identification chips, automated drone chips and drone weapon systems. i don't know any specifics, i am just guessing here.

Don't worry too much Vilanat, it's just that public opinion about Israel in Europe has fallen to an all time low due to the past 10 years being reporters talking about Palestinian childrens being shredded by darts and targeted by artillery e.t.c.
The ruling classes still mostly support Israel (I'm reminded of when our left-wing opposition tried challenging the leadership on the basis of being anti-Israel, he got crushed) and for example whilst the govs make platitudes towards two state solutions they still supply Israel through third parties like Germany
The spice must flow
Give it 10 years and maybe whatever's left of Euros might like Israel again, you just need to be more toleran and progresiv

Quote from: Vilanat on February 09, 2016, 02:47:01 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Duh, everyone takes covert actions against everyone else. the US and the UK have taken covert actions against Israel, Iran takes covert actions against everyone. Saudi Arabia and Qatar take covert actions against Israel, Syria, Iran and i guess that the US as well. i bet that if you look closely you'd see that the US take or taken covert actions against the UK. So what?

The US does not take covert actions against the UK as it is a part of the Five Eyes, but Obama has been treating us like an unwanted girlfriend pawning off all of our information to Portuguese merchants, so it's not exactly ideal. Also notable is that the passport incident he was referring to was incredibly severe, but Israel said sorry. Erm, better? Haha. It's cool, but it's like the German anger when they found out the US spied on them, you should not treat your allies as things to exploit otherwise they stop being your ally.
Heck, I'm pro-Israel, but as time goes on I find that position increasingly hard to justify other than there are worse things than Israel and they currently hold the potential to nuke Germany xD
Vilanat, are there successors to Bibi who are less paranoid?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 10, 2016, 05:43:38 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 02:39:55 pm

Don't worry too much Vilanat, it's just that public opinion about Israel in Europe has fallen to an all time low due to the past 10 years being reporters talking about Palestinian childrens being shredded by darts and targeted by artillery e.t.c.
The ruling classes still mostly support Israel (I'm reminded of when our left-wing opposition tried challenging the leadership on the basis of being anti-Israel, he got crushed) and for example whilst the govs make platitudes towards two state solutions they still supply Israel through third parties like Germany
The spice must flow
Give it 10 years and maybe whatever's left of Euros might like Israel again, you just need to be more toleran and progresiv[

Maybe, or maybe the fact Europe has increasing percentages of Muslims that gain more and more financial and political power in Europe, don't know.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

The US does not take covert actions against the UK as it is a part of the Five Eyes, but Obama has been treating us like an unwanted girlfriend pawning off all of our information to Portuguese merchants, so it's not exactly ideal. Also notable is that the passport incident he was referring to was incredibly severe, but Israel said sorry. Erm, better? Haha. It's cool, but it's like the German anger when they found out the US spied on them, you should not treat your allies as things to exploit otherwise they stop being your ally.
Heck, I'm pro-Israel, but as time goes on I find that position increasingly hard to justify other than there are worse things than Israel and they currently hold the potential to nuke Germany xD
Vilanat, are there successors to Bibi who are less paranoid?

The only severe part of Mabhouh assassination was that Israel got caught. everyone employ the same tactics, more or less and it's not like anyone actually thought that Ireland or Australia assassinated him. The US and UK hacked into Israel drones years before which in my opinion is far more hostile than using fake passports from a certain country (Again, a tactic that every agency employ).

The irony is that an Israeli company installed the security cameras in Dubai. :D the arrogant Mossad agents (Allegedly) should have known Dubai police department would look into these video tapes and could have easily avoided some of them. Btw, there's an okish Israeli drama series from the makers of hatufim (Literal translation - prisoners of war, Which in the States was adapted with the name "Homeland") that has been bought by Fox and is somewhat based on Mabhouh assassination. it mainly deals with how ordinary people react when they suddenly find out their faces in Dubai's CCTV and are getting blamed for being Mossad's Assassins (Some of them actually are). would be interesting to see what the american adaptation would look like.

Also, i think that more than Israel needs of explaining what they were doing assassinating a terrorist arms dealer, Dubai should explain what they were doing harbouring such a lovely person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 07:01:18 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on February 10, 2016, 05:43:38 pm

Maybe, or maybe the fact Europe has increasing percentages of Muslims that gain more and more financial and political power in Europe, don't know.

They have not inherited the mantle from progressive European liberals yet and the simple fact of the matter is if Europeans did not like what they were saying (or at the least, truly opposed it), they would shut it down with any of their hate speech laws. They don't though.

Quote from: Vilanat on February 10, 2016, 05:43:38 pm

The only severe part of Mabhouh assassination was that Israel got caught. everyone employ the same tactics, more or less and it's not like anyone actually thought that Ireland or Australia assassinated him. The US and UK hacked into Israel drones years before which in my opinion is far more hostile than using fake passports from a certain country (Again, a tactic that every agency employ).

When the US and UK hacked Israel's drones, they were drones carrying out military strikes, drones Israel had falsely said were not carrying missiles. This was during Obama's attempt to make peace with Iran and reintroduce them to the world community, and the Americans needed to make sure the IDF were not about to launch a military strike on Iran. This was after through eavesdropping, Israel obtained information from confidential US briefings, informants and diplomatic contacts in Europe, and that's not what bothered the Obama administration - what bothered them was that this information was leaked to American legislators in an attempt to undermine the Iranian deal which was a deliberate attempt at sabotaging American diplomacy. That to me strikes me as far more hostile than trying to find out who Israel is attacking with drones they're very poorly arguing are unarmed. Simply put, dishonesty begets distrust. Israel had undermined US diplomacy with hacking and information leaking, and they were not giving honest answers, and were mobilizing armed drones? What was the US to do, remain in the dark?

It's also not a tactic every agency employs, and it's incredibly scandalous because doing so is a war crime just as flying another nation's flag on your warships or wearing another nation's uniform is a war crime. When you use British passports to carry out assassinations, the backlash hits British people and puts their lives in danger. I do agree in quite a cheeky way that their real crime was getting caught, but stealing the identities of twelve real Britons means that if someone wanted to avenge the assassination they might accidentally kill innocent unaware Britons for an assassination they had nothing to do with. That is why this is so serious, this isn't even something like infiltration or just getting pass border security, this was the assassination of a high ranking commander. At least when the Russians come over here to kill people they do it under their own flag, with balls. And they certainly don't drag their allies through the mud whilst doing it, you won't see them running around with fake Belorussian passports! I am willing to overlook such actions, but they are not standard and they are nothing short of treacherous. Least of all after explicitly promising not to use British passports for this purpose. These are the kinds of actions which test alliances to breaking point, and Israel's already on thin ice as it has a past reputation for blowing up its friends metaphorically and literally :P

Moreover you may not grasp how important British passports are, especially to the British. They have a reputation as one of the most valuable and trustworthy in the world, they have gotten British citizens out of execution before, which is why they were probably used by Mossad to begin with. If they get a reputation for being used by assassins, that is a distrust that carries onto all passport holders - we have many mercantile workers who must travel across the world in dangerous places everywhere from Africa to the ME to China, and every day even have lawyers who specialize in freeing British citizens from security forces trying to extort them. Don't need this to take away one of their crutches ;)
We wouldn't expect this of Russia, and we have strictly business and sports relations with them. For one we called ally to do so was salt in the wounds. Wasn't even just us, with passports from Aussies, French and Germans. With the prospect of dual citizenry, the exact identity of who the assassins were would mean that ruling out the Irish or French e.t.c. would not be possible. Six years on and so many nations that were the most friendly to Israel have either turned their backs or held their connections with Israel as an embarrassment to their own public, you can't betray other nations' trust and expect things to be the same because everyone else might be doing it. Just look at the reactions, Prime Ministers and Chiefs of Security all saying this was profoundly disturbing, not the acts of friends, a global threat to national security and to the security of travelers. Israel cannot survive without friends, and it can't have friends if it isolates itself by abusing any trust it is given, it's pretty much how it works on the individual level to the top, no one makes friends with a dickhead they know will snake them :P

I think it is especially pertinent here, I remember when UR was talking about how Ukraine should pursue a policy of diminishment of Russia at any cost and I advised against it because there really are moments where at what cost you have gone too far and dug yourself into your own funeral - pretty much the same principle for every nation, and especially here. Trying to destroy your enemies at any cost will almost always end up at too steep a cost, where you'll lose everything even in victory.

Quote from: Vilanat on February 10, 2016, 05:43:38 pm

Also, i think that more than Israel needs of explaining what they were doing assassinating a terrorist arms dealer, Dubai should explain what they were doing harbouring such a lovely person.

I think this is a facet of the UAE being divided into Emirates, some of which are more ambivalent to Hamas or supportive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 11, 2016, 12:39:51 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2016, 07:01:18 pm

When the US and UK hacked Israel's drones, they were drones carrying out military strikes, drones Israel had falsely said were not carrying missiles. This was during Obama's attempt to make peace with Iran and reintroduce them to the world community, and the Americans needed to make sure the IDF were not about to launch a military strike on Iran. This was after through eavesdropping, Israel obtained information from confidential US briefings, informants and diplomatic contacts in Europe, and that's not what bothered the Obama administration - what bothered them was that this information was leaked to American legislators in an attempt to undermine the Iranian deal which was a deliberate attempt at sabotaging American diplomacy. That to me strikes me as far more hostile than trying to find out who Israel is attacking with drones they're very poorly arguing are unarmed. Simply put, dishonesty begets distrust. Israel had undermined US diplomacy with hacking and information leaking, and they were not giving honest answers, and were mobilizing armed drones? What was the US to do, remain in the dark?

Yeah, no. in 1998 Obama was somewhere in Illinois.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2016, 09:05:39 am

Started in 1998, continues to last year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2016, 09:35:13 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 11, 2016, 06:17:47 am

Turkish president Erdogan held a speech on national television. He says that Turkey is about to open it's borders to Europe and let all refugees through, unless the UN starts making safe zones, with no fly areas and UN troops, in Syria, to shelter refugees in their own country.

Sultan Erdogan is mocking Merkel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on February 11, 2016, 09:42:40 am

http://www.politico.eu/article/scottish-vote-will-boost-queen-nicola-ahead-of-brexit-referendum-sturgeon/

Wait, Scotland still has a queen?... EDOOT: Oh it's a metaphor, sort of like how we call Hillary 'Queen Hillary' sometimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 11, 2016, 09:48:09 am

Quote

She has proved herself the Stalin to Salmond’s Lenin, turning a revolution into a regime.

Is it a bad thing that this comparison makes me like her more?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2016, 10:09:25 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 11, 2016, 09:48:09 am

Quote

She has proved herself the Stalin to Salmond’s Lenin, turning a revolution into a regime.

Is it a bad thing that this comparison makes me like her more?

Not really, one can admire the leadership of people who built powerful regimes, whilst still acknowledging the whole killing tens of millions of people thing. Heck, that whole Thatcher/Hillary derail was all about admiring their leadership qualities whilst still acknowledging their own moral failings :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 01:25:48 am

From the ISIS thread:

Quote from: smjjames on February 11, 2016, 08:37:15 pm

Right, and 'theres no Russian ground troops there either, nope, we have no bases there, nothing, nope, nada, zilch, zero'.

I wonder if he has the same opinion of a Russian or Iranian led coalition of ground troops?

Yeah and those T-90s they didnt even bother to paint over again with a non-russian-olive paint totally came from India probably too. Elsewhere, Medvedev also said yesterday that theres nothing Russia could do to stop asylum seekers from reaching Finland. Yeah right, theres been about 15/year(political or sex minority reasons), now suddenly thousand+ in a month from literally day after when border controls were returned to Finnish-Swedish border. We get more asylum seekers in a day from Russia that we used to get in a year. Totally a coincident, nothing can be done!

http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1455243940968

We should just terminate "negotiations", announce that Russia is a safe country, and stop everyone without a visa from getting in, but as before nobody in the government has the guts to do it.

Well at least they're changing the law so that starting from May hopefully, 25,000 can be mobilized called to "additional rehearsals" with 0 warning time by the Chief of the Defence Force, so thats an improvement over the previous 3 months.

Any day now the Russian media machine will go full retard about the Oregon Air National Guard, 142nd Fighter Wing and its F-15s coming to Rissala, Tampere this Spring for excercises with our F/A-18s. Its the first time ever that parts of an operational US unit rebases here, even if just for training reasons(so air shows dont count).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 12, 2016, 06:02:33 am

Detailed numbers on the NYE Gropefest. (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article152018368/1054-Strafanzeigen-nach-Uebergriffen-von-Koeln.html) Mostly Algerians and Morrocans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2016, 06:49:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 12, 2016, 06:02:33 am

Detailed numbers on the NYE Gropefest. (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article152018368/1054-Strafanzeigen-nach-Uebergriffen-von-Koeln.html) Mostly Algerians and Morrocans.

Pure coincidence

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 12, 2016, 07:13:05 am

Yeah, seems so, it was a coincidence unrelated to the massive arrivals of Syrians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 12, 2016, 09:07:34 am

Most of the "refugees" were neither refugees nor from Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 09:44:41 am

Quote from: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 01:25:48 am

From the ISIS thread:

Quote from: smjjames on February 11, 2016, 08:37:15 pm

Right, and 'theres no Russian ground troops there either, nope, we have no bases there, nothing, nope, nada, zilch, zero'.

I wonder if he has the same opinion of a Russian or Iranian led coalition of ground troops?

Yeah and those T-90s they didnt even bother to paint over again with a non-russian-olive paint totally came from India probably too. Elsewhere, Medvedev also said yesterday that theres nothing Russia could do to stop asylum seekers from reaching Finland. Yeah right, theres been about 15/year(political or sex minority reasons), now suddenly thousand+ in a month from literally day after when border controls were returned to Finnish-Swedish border. We get more asylum seekers in a day from Russia that we used to get in a year. Totally a coincident, nothing can be done!

http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1455243940968

We should just terminate "negotiations", announce that Russia is a safe country, and stop everyone without a visa from getting in, but as before nobody in the government has the guts to do it.

You should start with Germany first, lol. Thousand+ in a month is nothing in comparison to the numbers they'll force on you if they push through their insane mass relocation plan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 11:56:31 am

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 09:44:41 am

You should start with Germany first, lol. Thousand+ in a month is nothing in comparison to the numbers they'll force on you if they push through their insane mass relocation plan.

Thats besides the point, we can always(attempt to) return them (with sufficient political will). Thing is we're yet again being screwed by Russia and, publicly, few are bothered about it enough to demanding stricter border control. Finlandization ahoy, 1980s want you back. Some people we've have in the parliament since those times need to start dying or something right now.

Syrians seem to stop in Germany, its the rest of them(Iraqi and Afghani) continue to the Nordics, via Germany and Denmark.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:17:19 pm

But you know, if you try to put border controls with Russia to prevent migrants/refugees from coming in without first putting Germany on its place, they will just force you to remove those border controls, anyway, because it's pretty obvious that Germany/Merkel believes that Europe must hold as many refugees/migrants as possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:21:20 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:17:19 pm

But you know, if you try to put border controls with Russia to prevent migrants/refugees from coming in without first putting Germany on its place, they will just force you to remove those border controls, anyway, because it's pretty obvious that Germany/Merkel believes that Europe must hold as many refugees/migrants as possible.

Those "refugees" arent new ones, they've all lived in Russia for years.

Comrade, Russians are sometimes a bit slow, so its a pure coincidence that they and their smugglers only now, since -91, realized they can just drive to our border for wealth and free healthcare.

edit: as in, nobody sane leaving Afghanistan or Syria right now wants to go to Russia first.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:25:00 pm

Quote from: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:21:20 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:17:19 pm

But you know, if you try to put border controls with Russia to prevent migrants/refugees from coming in without first putting Germany on its place, they will just force you to remove those border controls, anyway, because it's pretty obvious that Germany/Merkel believes that Europe must hold as many refugees/migrants as possible.

Those "refugees" arent new ones, they've all lived in Russia for years.

Comrade, Russians are sometimes a bit slow, so its a pure coincidence that they and their smugglers only now, since -91, realized they can just drive to our border for wealth and free healthcare.

edit: as in, nobody sane leaving Afghanistan or Syria right now wants to go to Russia first.  :P

I thought Russia was used as transit country to enter Europe? I definitely read a story about someone doing just that. It was supposedly pretty thin though, not many people used it, because it required you to successfully apply to Russian university, first, to obtain the necessary visa.

P.S. Also, Russia has free healthcare, too, so why would people go to the cold wasteland that is Finland for that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:27:25 pm

Nope, by far the most volume is across the mediterranean. Over half of it via Turkey.

Until last November-ish, most asylum seekers from Russia have been ethnic Russians or Finno-Ugrian.

edit: also NATO countries Norway, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have 0 people waiting at their borders. Its the FSB.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:33:13 pm

Quote from: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:27:25 pm

Its the FSB.

[grammar nazi intensifies]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:46:21 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:33:13 pm

Quote from: Erkki on February 12, 2016, 12:27:25 pm

Its the FSB.

[grammar nazi intensifies]

Just wait till RT finds out about this: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/unprecedented-u-s-air-force-jet-deployment-to-finland-1758221233

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:54:08 pm

Well I don't watch or read RT. Why would I care about what they do?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 14, 2016, 09:59:41 am

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:54:08 pm

Well I don't watch or read RT. Why would I care about what they do?

For the comedy value?

Although I was far from entertained today when I read Medvedev's speech in Munich. Somewhere during the last year the EU sanctions have changed from being a positive thing to Russia (cough cough) to something they want lifted so badly they're ready to bribe, blackmail and constantly threaten their neighbors with nukes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 14, 2016, 10:14:47 am

Hey, if that results in freezing foreign assets of our "leadership", I'm all for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 11:32:54 am

Quote from: Sergarr on February 12, 2016, 12:54:08 pm

Well I don't watch or read RT. Why would I care about what they do?

RT is useful for seeing what Russian wants to influence UK and USA public opinion with, you at the very least get a grasp of who Kremlin is pushing

Also lol, remember how someone suggested before that Germany just train all the Syrians and send them back?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

50% chance they were German defence minister (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/sicherheitskonferenz-von-der-leyen-101.html), honestly given the current successful track record of Germany literally managing to accomplish every possible mistake they could let's let Germany throw military trained foreigners from across the world into Syria, nothing will go wrong Merkel you are best ally

Do you know what, this isn't actually a bad concept. You just don't do it on your front doorstep, let alone inside your house :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A German minister has said Merkel will 'convert' refugees to German progressive attitudes. (http://kurier.at/politik/ausland/merkel-soll-frauenfeindliche-fluechtlinge-bekehren/180.685.567)
My sides come with fries, but I wish you the best of luck - the punishment for apostasy is death and the stakes are high, it is why I say the future will not be fought between progresiv Germany and ard immigrants, but between conservative immigrant groups vs conservative immigrant groups. Merkel has also forgotten that being Muslim makes you immune to progressive criticism, TyT arguing that Cologne was a problem with German rape culture, ah, my sides, I only ordered wedges
Also old news, I said before how Germany was trying to solve their demographic problem by adding two demographic problems that didn't solve the first didn't make sense, and said that if Germany could not pay for her OAPs there was no way they would be able to pay for OAPs and immigrants who paid less in taxes, did not arrive with the skills needed for high-end German technician jobs and would displace them and cause infrastructure strain and so on, you know how the canary dies no need to repeat myself since bloody years ago. Back then when I was still saying Germany was digging itself deeper it was predictions, but back then you also had to agree with this stuff on toleran principles so meh, just don't act too late until you have to and find you no longer have any power to act :P
Well then earlier this year I was saying how Germany was predicted to have their costs rise by 17 billion euros due to immigration and then someone blew me the fuck out by posting that the costs had been revised to 51 billion and doing the ostrich on the economy has meant Germany must act now to prevent debt time bomb (http://www.thelocal.de/20160212/germany-must-act-now-to-prevent-debt-time-bomb). Keep in mind the bomb hasn't gone off, but they're fast approaching the point where they're going to seal their fate and get a taste of Greece. Also looking at how quickly German people die and how few children they are having, I think I will revise my estimate to say their displacement is no longer likely, but inevitable, though Sweden still gets a first for having already done so with some of its cities.
"The German government expects the population to shrink from 81m to 67m by 2060 as depressed pockets of the former East Germany go into “decline spirals” where shops, doctors’ practices, and public transport start to shut down, causing yet more people to leave in a vicious circle."

Germans no longer have a choice in the matter

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A look at the past of Realpolitik, differences between UK and Germany (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/802c822e-d0d6-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html)
"In 1920, the American journalist George Abel Schreiner published a history of the first world war titled The Craft Sinister. An attack on the delusions of high diplomacy, it included a peculiar chapter contrasting German Realpolitik with an avowedly moral form of British “Idealpolitik”. Schreiner went beyond familiar denunciations of Prussian militarism to argue that German Realpolitik wasn’t realistic at all, neglecting public opinion as it relentlessly pursued the national interest; British “Idealpolitik”, by contrast, was realistic because it was constrained, a worldly diplomacy tempered by democratic sensibility."
Now that was the past and the Brits and I reckon the leading Brits weren't endorsing Realpolitik wholeheartedly because by then the Empire had grown too large, same way as the Roman Empire had grown too large; if the world wars hadn't have happened more decentralization like that of Canada and Australia would've been inevitable.

Anyways it is interesting to note today that Germany pursues its politics irregardless of its own public opinion, of alienating itself from France, Italy, Greece and Eastern Europe, whilst the UK has taken a disregard to the public opinion of the EU, USA, yet made its own public opinion and of the rest of the world from Bangalore to Brunei of much greater importance. I find it notable that David Cameron in his attempts to keep the UK within the Union is still very cautious to try and court public opinion, whilst Merkel would have just denied the referendum.

Also lol the German Federal Agency for Political Education (god that is fucking creepy, the fact that it is inherited from the Nazis is just bants on the icing bunt) (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aeb_1455218532) released a video teaching peeps in Germany how to jihad like a pro. They also teach that there are double jihads, one translated literally to German as mein kampfy struggle of struggling, and jihad 2 (or jihad 1) which involves military conflict to defend or expand the Muslim world. Top kek, Germany wants to die, I am long gone past the point of seeing it as one big Poe's law, this is a nation that just wants to die.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Already a first look at the team photo evident: The fresh success team does not have one player with dark skin or even a Mediterranean complexion. It is, moreover, a team without any migration background. 100 percent potato German motivation. We list the names of the players complete: Hendrik, Finn, Erik, Christian, Steffen, Jannik, Niclas, Steffen, Fabian, Simon, Tobias, Johannes, Carsten, Andreas, Rune, Martin. All attention! You have to hammer out in 2016 once in this country."
I T ' S   T H E   C U R R E N T   Y E A R   WHY   AREN'T YOU CULTURALLY ENRICHED YET?!! (http://www.zeit.de/sport/2016-02/handball-deutschland-europameister-alternative-fuer-deutschland/komplettansicht)
Like I said, beyond Poe's law, Germans these days hate nothing more than Germans

REMOVE POTATO GERMANS (Potato Germans? Does that mean something in Germany?)

Newcomers with experience or training teachers and preschool teachers get a fast track to be able to teach in Sweden. The fastest to become a teacher in Sweden after a year in the groove, and parts of the training to be given in Arabic. National Union of Teachers fear, however, increased burden on teachers when the newcomers will practice. (http://www.svd.se/nyanlanda-far-snabbspar-pa-arbetsmarknaden) I don't know what the National Union of Teachers are fearing, unless they're racist shitlords or something, because Swedish children don't matter in any significant capacity. I'm not even being sarcastic or anything, it's actually wise to start teaching newly arrived children in their own language than to have them grow up in Sweden behind the curve.

Spoiler: Swedegov got the right idea for Swedish children (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/0GdXECL.jpg)

Hopefully the next generation of immigrant Swedes does not adopt Swedish insanity too. If they preserve Swedish food tradition as well that would be nice, I'm at this point too jaded (and jihaded), I'm all right with progresiv destroying Swedes (not like I can stop them or if Swedes want anything but death) just leave their bread alone, their bread has done nothing to deserve this. I mean look at this, all the Swedes look like horrible hipsters ready to get in the bin. (https://sweden.se/culture-traditions/p2/) But the buns, pastries and breads - top don treasures. The thing about peaceful Shangri La paradise societies is that they only survive because they are isolated from the rest of the world that carries both strength and hunger in equal measure.
Sweden is no lost Tibetan valley town :P

Germany, Sweden and Austria threaten Greece with Schengen expulsion unless they stop refugee influx. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/25/greece-under-growing-pressure-to-stem-flow-of-refugees-and-migrants-into-eu) Oh that's a great fucking dick move, stop the Greeks from stopping the flow back when it was manageable, bankrupt them and then give them a loan with interest to pay back your loan and then blame the Greeks for not doing more to stop the immigration flows when they can't even afford medicine or food for their own people :D
This makes about as much sense as telling starving North Koreans to just eat food. I don't think the issue is a lack of will. Greece at this point is fucked for the time being and has no future, if I was them I'd just give the middle finger to everyone else who screwed me and call it a day. Speaking of which, Erdogan threatening to open the gates and send everyone to Europe. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/12151701/Turkey-threatens-to-open-the-gates-and-send-refugees-to-Europe.html)
So open the gates of Constantinople, so open the gates of Vienna:
"Recep Tayyip Erdogan goaded EU leaders, saying they had not delivered the €3 billion (£2.3 billion) in aid his government was promised in exchange for halting the tide of refugees.
In a combative address in Ankara, he said the Turkish government was being taken for “idiots” by Brussels and insisted he was “proud” of leak minutes of a high-level meeting with EU leaders, in which he had threatened to flood Europe with refugees. "

You took Erdogan for a fool, now Erdogan will make fools of you! Can't ban Erdogan! GIVE HIS PAYMENT OR HE WILL MAKE YOU PAY (for his elite cataphract retinue)

So here we have Greece unable to stop any flows without money they have not been given and Turkey threatening to open the gates after the aid they were promised was not given. This will be interesting.

19 hours ago: Is Turkey preparing to invade Syria? (http://www.hngn.com/articles/178877/20160213/saudi-arabia-gathering-troops-turkey-preparation-syrian-invasion.htm)
18 hours ago: Turkey shells Kurds in Aleppo province (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-shells-kurdish-fighters-in-syria-aleppo-province-as-bashar-al-assads-forces-continue-to-a6872206.html)
IT HAS BEGUN, PREPARE YOUR RECTUM FOR DUBYA DUBYA THREE (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e4d_1455406518#jzDDc3BlyPwAovlt.99) (or just large regional nondescript conflict one).

Alternative headlines: End of the World begins, Europe most affected.

*EDIT
USA trying to deescalate things. Thanks Obama

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 14, 2016, 11:39:54 am

Oh good grief.

World ?= screwed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 11:41:13 am

No Obama will save us

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 11:46:59 am

Is there actually a coherent point to your posts, or are you just posting random shits for fun and giggles?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 14, 2016, 12:06:35 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 11:46:59 am

Is there actually a coherent point to your posts, or are you just posting random shits for fun and giggles?

His point is actually very coherent, and he has explained it multiple times, that he doesn't agree with most of the modern European policies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 12:30:45 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 14, 2016, 12:06:35 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 11:46:59 am

Is there actually a coherent point to your posts, or are you just posting random shits for fun and giggles?

His point is actually very coherent, and he has explained it multiple times, that he doesn't agree with most of the modern European policies.

Pretty much

I said these things would happen threads ago because of these policies, today they happen, I post about it and make some jokes and then I consider that thread (no pun intended) of thought finished unless something spectacular or new information provides a new perspective. My stance has pretty much stayed the same that current European politics do not work on any level except for the purpose of destruction, with the addendum that such destruction was supposed to build a greater European state from the ashes. As one opposed to both the destruction of European nations and of Europe and as one who recognized the construction effort was more doomed than the tower of babylon if it was being melted by jet fuel, I am vested in seeing whether my bold portents were justified, and I am dismayed to find I consistently undersold just how much damage is achieved in such short time. But at the same time, also joy! I got it right. Since then my stance has changed from this being accidental incompetence with people with obvious agendas taking advantage to this being everyone with the agenda of suicide getting what they wished for and people with obvious agendas just taking advantage of them, and I don't mean that metaphorically or whatever, whole generations of kids were taught to attack themselves as oppressors and now is time to eat glorious popcorn and see the soft ones melt like butter in jet... Wait no, used that one. Melt like butter in krokodil cooking pot

In fact, I would go so far as to say I disagree with every single policy put forth by the European Union except for the self destruction of certain problematic nation states that trigger me timbers with their rampant xenophobia, and a common energy grid, which the EU sadly is not at all interested in despite being formed from the ashes of coal. Oh yeah, and I suppose I also share their appreciation of bureaucrats, though I do not share their opinion in making them the unaccountable overlords of the world's power, least of all if they all come from academic elite. Makes my Gokturk yoghurt shudder and tremble in its yurt, it does!

Oh, and I do want to know what potato Germans are, that one still makes little sense to me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 14, 2016, 12:34:17 pm

the Kartoffel type potato. Filling, but with a Sauerkraut aftertaste.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 12:36:26 pm

Oh, it's like baguette or kraut or kebab (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kartoffel)

Quite saddened, I thought I was gonna learn some ebin insult like the Chinese one where they tell your ancestors to get fucked to the 18th generation (brutality)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 12:30:45 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 14, 2016, 12:06:35 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 11:46:59 am

Is there actually a coherent point to your posts, or are you just posting random shits for fun and giggles?

His point is actually very coherent, and he has explained it multiple times, that he doesn't agree with most of the modern European policies.

Pretty much

I said these things would happen threads ago because of these policies,

What European policies? There was no European policy. Merkel made a bet that by taking the lead she could get the rest of the EU to establish a coherent asylum policy. She failed due to the opposition of mostly Eastern Europeans, that were glad to let the rich county deal with the problem on their own. What we've seen is that countries on their own can or won't deal with that kind of shit, because it's easier to yell on whoever is downstream to solve it, or to let the refugees through so you don't have to deal with them.

I guess you could be meaning the open internal border policy, but even that is doubtful. The Balkans countries maintain border forces, and they didn't do much to stop the flow of refugees. And please don't city the UK as a counterexemple unless you are seriously advocating a policy of digging a channel around germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 14, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 11:46:59 am

Is there actually a coherent point to your posts, or are you just posting random shits for fun and giggles?

His point is to impart objectively correct and unbiased information, such as the important news that 9 million enriched Swedecucks have recently committed suicide by eating nandos and drinking Kultur-Aid – just like Jonestown, but with less drugs and more diversity.

We'd be completely in the dark if it weren't for LW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2016, 07:43:53 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 14, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

His point is to impart objectively correct and unbiased information, such as the important news that 9 million enriched Swedecucks have recently committed suicide by eating nandos and drinking Kultur-Aid – just like Jonestown, but with less drugs and more diversity.
We'd be completely in the dark if it weren't for LW.

Truly, if ever I failed in this mission to expose the Swedecuck every time it comedically covers up another gang rape, there would be only one fate for me

Spoiler: to commit sudoku, and not even correctly (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/dqkY0o1.png)

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

What European policies? There was no European policy.

Substitute with German it means the same thing :^)
The policy was simple, turn no refugees back, bring more refugees here, back when it was still just 60,000 refugees a year all attempts to reinforce the Balkans were blocked by Merkel, at 200,000 refugees a year for the entirety of Europe Germany was even making plans to create official channels to bring refugees from Africa and the ME straight to Germany. Have you forgotten so quickly already that in Europol thread we talked not about reinstating national borders, but creating processing centres on Libya and Algeria to increase rate of immigration safely? And then the number soared to the yearly millions and taharrush was all the bants. I don't like how people have such short memories on these things, it's like before how Merkel switches track from immigration as a multicultural experiment having been a failure then immediately segues into refugee bants. And that's not a point I haven't already made before.

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

Merkel made a bet that by taking the lead she could get the rest of the EU to establish a coherent asylum policy. She failed due to the opposition of mostly Eastern Europeans, that were glad to let the rich county deal with the problem on their own. What we've seen is that countries on their own can or won't deal with that kind of shit, because it's easier to yell on whoever is downstream to solve it, or to let the refugees through so you don't have to deal with them.

That's not what we've seen. That's not what we've seen at all :P

Also lol, even in failure Polan and frens is being blamed for Germany fucking up Europe, utterly priceless

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

I guess you could be meaning the open internal border policy, but even that is doubtful.

You don't need to guess, I've made my voice clear on how the schengen area fucked up the Med boat phase of the crisis and made the whole fiasco thereafter impossible to manage, even with Germany's pitiful "totally not borders gais", and how it allowed traffickers of people and arms and jihad bants to have such an easy life once they set foot in Spain/Italy/pass Balkans. Open borders + economic incentives, it was clear from the start that the rate of immigration to Europe would increase, one just could not fathom it would be in the annual millions.

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

The Balkans countries maintain border forces, and they didn't do much to stop the flow of refugees.

Lol don't try to misrepresent this, the border forces were not maintained and haven't even fully restarted even after the massive influx already crossed:

Quote

Amongst those now ensuring this border is fully controlled are teams of foreign police officers from Slovenia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Serbia.
More European Union member states are expected to join the mission soon, working alongside their Macedonian counterparts patrolling the border and providing surveillance equipment, as well as helping to register the migrants.
Media captionRichard Galpin reports on a second fence being constructed on the Greece-Macedonia border
"The idea is that our effort in decreasing illegal migration is made in an efficient manner with assistance from these countries," says Macedonia's Foreign Minister, Nikola Poposki.
"And we have estimated we can have 350 to 400 foreign police officers operating on our soil."
Mr Poposki added his government would even consider having foreign troops stationed on the border with Greece if any European countries were to offer this, but apparently this has not been discussed so far.

Dated February 12th, 2016. Not dated 2010. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35560999)
Likewise all the wealthy nations that could have enforced their borders had governments that wanted to use that wealth to attract as many immigrants as possible. And those that did not want to act so, did not act the opposite, being complacent or indecisive. One has only to see Italy where they intercepted every single boat they could find and brought everyone to Italy, this was during an interim progresiv government none of the Italians had elected mind you, with not a single boat returned to Africa. Then once they reached Italy they were given all they needed if they applied asylum there, and if they didn't wish to they were free to move on to France and Germany. And again with the short memory, have we already forgotten how people were calling for a "regime change" when Orban actually defended his nation's borders?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/NmHxIXT.png)

Italy - no borders, no maritime patrols that do not return immigrants. France - no borders, no maritime patrols that do not return immigrants. Greece - no ability to control borders as they are too yuropoor. Macedonia - border control under construction. Serbia - too poor to fully enforce their border, they just enforce the border that keeps the immigrants away from minefields and Croatia and try to process them, remove Jihadis and move them on. Croatia - ditto. Slovenia - ditto. Austria - they only built their fence last year and it has hundreds of yards of gaps due to vineyard owners refusing to let the Austrian gov complete the fence out of political protest. Hungary - only built their fence last year, since then though they've only had 1,000 people try to cross the fence last year and this year it'll probably be around 3,000 given the rate has increased to 60-70 per week just as illegal immigration to Europe as a whole tripled, with those 1,000 detained, sentenced and returned to their countries. That was last year mind you, and countries are only beginning to emulate Austria after 1.5 million already made it through last year with no opposition, and indeed encouragement. Hungary right now is going to extend their fence to their Romanian border, and learning from Calais they realize it is not sufficient, so I hope they will reinforce it with more manpower.

All the border controls that were abandoned after the Schengen treaty were not even brought back, and their substitutes were not brought back in sufficient power. Whilst some nations took part in destroying trafficking rings and smuggling boats (Frogs, Burgers and Chips), significantly Germany did not. For as long as Merkel made it clear that immigrants could always make it to the wealth and benefits of Germany without even having to apply beforehand, more and more kept coming. They're not coming to Europe to live in Finland or Poland, because they're poor and cold. They're coming for Germany and Germany has every step of the way attacked any nation within the Schengen area for putting up border controls at risk of causing an EU collapse, that is also why they had Frontex attempt to supercede the nation state's control of their own borders without even having to ask permission from those nations. That is also why Orban told Germany to very politely fuck off and not sabotage Hungary's borders.
Free housing, free money, free cellphones, free food, easy women (bloody hell if you come from an area of the world where you might spend your entire life having only had sex with one woman, coming to Germany where it's all about sex positivism and girls walk around looking to be culturally enriched is one hell of a draw for millions of young men who have low prospects of getting laid at home), adventure in exotic lands (or a safe base to hide from jihadist adventures in exotic lands), no obstacles, Germany is a candle in the night, drawing everyone to it. Such a dream that sexy is worth fighting, paying and dying for, and only a few thousand died out of the million and a half that made it so odds are you'd make it good.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ann4Zrd.jpg)

That's without even taking into considering that we have systematically destroyed every single government in the Med that wasn't an EU country that had its borders destroyed from within - we destroyed those governments one by one until only Morocco, Algeria, Egypt (close call), Lebanon, Israel and Tunis remained (and you can bet your butt their days are probably numbered lel) and on every single European country in the Mediterranean bar Albania and Greece, once you set foot on soil or you're brought onto European soil by the coast guard, you're sorted and you can head on your way to Berlin or just stay where you are, because open magnet borders are fun. Notably there is a maritime route that bypasses the closer Greece from the levant/Egypt to go straight to Italy where travel to Berlin is unimpeded by such silly things as border controls. Also whilst France, USA and the UK are busy trying to stabilize Sudan, Nigeria and CA, West Africa and East Africa from Islamist bandits, the richest nation in Europe isn't doing fuck all except to make things worse to try and preserve their preeminence within the EU :|

Quote from: Sheb on February 14, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

And please don't city the UK as a counterexemple unless you are seriously advocating a policy of digging a channel around germany.

I do believe my policy in regards to Germany was to turn it into a giant reef to allow it to commit suicide in a fashion that would at the very least provide one of the most biodiverse and ecologically vibrant historical ruins that would ever be known to mankind for generations to come and go. It would make some sick diving spots for sure, and could save all the fish stocks that the UK lost to EU fishermen overfishing our formerly protected waters :(

In all seriousness though, I have covered what my preferred policies are and I believe they are in this thread, allow me to repost them:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The damage control:

• Reinstate national borders
• Continue maritime patrols and shutting down trafficking rings

The toleran question:

• Put Poland in charge of Academia and Media
• Allow refugees to live in progressive areas for maximum integration and enrichment

Ending world suffering:

• Sink Germany and Sweden into the North Sea (optional, would create beautiful reefs for marine life)
• Promote UK style "foreign aid" versus Merkel style "take boat here"
• After that, promote US style "strategic foreign investment" vs UK style "foreign aid"

I'd add something about deportation that I didn't add before but honestly for countries like Germany and Sweden the numbers are so high and the political will for it so low I think they alone are better off just replacing themselves correctly with assimilation, and failing that, some sort of Londonobrazilioamericano evolution and appeasement of its newcomers to minimize damage and ease transition into the next year
I mean hey, maybe Merkel will be able to convert all the immigrants to progressivism, who knows

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2016, 04:30:03 pm

Having dispelled the three myths that I have no coherent point, I am nothing less than an inglorious shitposter of information and that the EU's failure has been born out of deliberate malevolence taking advantage of dogmatic wishful suicide I was greeted by a most unpleasant sight this evening from one of my papers, the Metro. They are pro-EU but it seems this was even too much for them.

Quote

Brexit: EU 'will punish Britain'
BRITAIN will be punished by spurned allies if it quits the EU, foreign secretary Philip Hammond warned yesterday. The minister was accused of 'blackmailing' voters after claiming Europe might put up trade barriers to stop us succeeding alone. He said EU leaders were worried that, if Britain left, the 'contagion' would spread and more countries would drop out.

Note on who Philip Hammond is, he is a on the side of our Prime Minister with a unique twist, whilst he is like our Prime Minister pro-EU, he was formerly eurosceptic. Interestingly in 2015 he was the one to introduce the European referendum bill to Parliament. One wonders what meetings he has had that has changed his mind so abruptly in 2016. He changed his mind on almost everything that there the Philip Hammonds of yesteryear and the current year are two entirely different Philips. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he has not accepted any gifts, this is not exactly Italy, so the most logical explanation is that he's waiting to see how Cameron's negotiations with Merkel turn out and does not want to undermine his chances of success if the deal is good.
Also perhaps the EU have forgotten that this contagion is called democracy and it spreads like Spanish venereal diseases :P

Quote

(continuing)
'they will not have an interest in demonstrating that we can succeed outside the EU.' he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

The responses to this are surprising coming from a pro-EU newspaper, after one of our MPs leaked a delightful conversation with Germany's EU Affairs Chairman Gunther Krichbaum where Gunther Krichbaum threatened the UK with trade war and economic collapse during a meeting. Understanding that Gunther Krichbaum was just probably trying to intimidate him personally, our good ol' MP decided to make this statement public.

Quote

'It is impossible for the EU to launch a trade war against a departing member under World Trade Organization rules, (...) not that French wine producers or German car manufacturers would allow their governments to threaten access to a market as important as the UK anyway.'

This one I would not wholly agree with, as I would love to see Germany try to enact a continental blockade upon the UK, worked well for Napoleon xD! And to play devil's advocate here, that argument would apply in reverse. Less than half of our exports go to the EU but that's still a good share, so who would be willing to back down first? With Germany's spending having already created a debt timebomb and their immigration expenditure having risen to 50B Euroshekels, I am comfortable in saying the answer is set.
Currently the EU is more dependent upon the UK than the UK to the EU, simply for the reason that the UK imports more from the rest of the world (with the EU's share in the UK having fallen 10% due to inability to compete with BRICS and the Commonwealth) and the UK is not an industrial economy like Germany, it is a post-industrial financial economy. Would the rest of the EU be willing to side with Germany against the UK when it comes to making less money in favour of Berlin? I would bet no, as money is more powerful an allure than unpopular politics, and Germany has already isolated itself from Portugal and Spain, France, Italy and the Visegrad group. Belgium, the Netherlands and Sweden seem to still be more or less with Berlin... For now. Not to give the Germans ideas or anything, but a trade war would destroy Germany not the UK, to kill the UK you'd want to blow up London stocks with V2 rockets or something. NO HELGO, NO, I THOUGHT WE WERE ALLIES D:
Though actually, one of the funnier things they said:

Quote

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Gunther Krichbaum you delightful scrunch, you have exposed quite clearly that Germany is not just willing to sacrifice themselves for the Commission project, they are willing to sacrifice others unwillingly too. So far Russia has been non-stop probing UK defences to find weakness and they've treated us with more respect and cooperation than Germany. Gunther Krichbaum is also the nitwit that threatened our Prime Minister with dire consequences if he limited immigration to the UK, like I said Germany has been at the centre of this trying to sabotage anyone's effort at stopping the crisis from day 1 till Kingdom come.
I will extend one bit of understanding in that Gunther Krichbaum probably was not trying to make a statement to the UK and just let his ambition out in a Freudian slip, and that he probably does not represent a good load of Germans who just want to be culturally enriched in peace. But I always love the irony that Germany is led by people who desire more sanctions to be placed on the United Kingdoms than on the Russian Federation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The top exports of the United Kingdom are:
Cars ($40.7B)
Refined Petroleum ($29.8B)
Crude Petroleum ($22.7B)
Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B)
Gas Turbines ($17.2B)

Its top imports are:
Cars ($40.3B)
Crude Petroleum ($39.6B)
Refined Petroleum ($28.8B)
Packaged Medicaments ($18B)
Computers ($16.2B)

The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are:
United States ($50.2B)
Germany ($46.6B)
the Netherlands ($36B)
France ($28.8B)
Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

The top import origins are:
Germany ($88.8B)
China ($55.2B)
the Netherlands ($52.1B)
France ($39B)
United States ($37.8B)

We already have our own booming car industries so giving them the Alibaba treatment would do wonders for the UK's car manufacturing industries and I'm quite surprised that Germany buys none of our nuclear engines because they hate nuclear power for some reason (chernobylphobia?). I think if the USA imploded for some reasons things would be different as that'd remove our export and financial waifu but we're good, China is muscling into Europe for the power of free markets and you can't put a ban on services in a country you can't control! :D
Haha, it's like we don't even pretend we're allies anymore. I'd rather be in the company of friends like the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and Japan. Those countries don't try to destroy the UK, they give us money, cultural enrichment and good exports, and when it comes to defence we actually defend one another instead of trying to destroy one another. Nothing gets me more salty than liars who clap you in the hand and stab you in the back :P
Also Germany is still dependent upon the UK, Norway and Netherlands for its alternative gas imports, the rest it is getting from Russia. If the Germans want to shoot off their legs more then that's fine by me, UK gas production is slowing down anyways so it'd really just be speeding up the inevitable and just handing the keys to Russia faster.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SbNT3H6.jpg)

SUPER SALTO, Sergarr you must love the German leadership for being such good sports!

WITH FRIENDS LIKE THESE WHO NEEDS ENEMIES :DDDDDDD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 15, 2016, 05:03:12 pm

So, EU represent about 50% of UK trade, UK represent about 8% or rEU trade, so the rEU is going to bow backward to Westminster because we need them so much? Welcome to the wonderful world of LW logic.

Also, I love how you're spinning that as a trade war. The thing is that if the UK leaves the EU, it leaves the common market. Spoiler alert, when you leave the EU, you leave the benefits associated with the EU. The Eurosceptic fantasy that they can leave the EU but still keep all the parts they like is just a fantasy. It's be hilarious if the Brits ended up paying more to the EU budget when outside than in, like the Norwegians. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 15, 2016, 05:24:44 pm

LW's last post contained some really interesting stuff, so to encourage it to be actually read by his vociferal opponents, I've done my best to extract the meaning and thought-provoking stuff while removing the : D and shekelphobia

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2016, 04:30:03 pm

the Metro. pro-EU paper posts headline:

Quote

Brexit: EU 'will punish Britain'
BRITAIN will be punished by spurned allies if it quits the EU, foreign secretary Philip Hammond warned yesterday. The minister was accused of 'blackmailing' voters after claiming Europe might put up trade barriers to stop us succeeding alone. He said EU leaders were worried that, if Britain left, the 'contagion' would spread and more countries would drop out.

Philip Hammond is a UK MP, he is likeminded with our Prime Minister, pro-EU,but was formerly eurosceptic. In 2015 he was the one to introduce the European referendum bill to Parliament.
 He might be taking bribes, but the most logical explanation is that he's waiting to see how Cameron's negotiations with Merkel turn out while retaining a political safety-net if they do work.

Quote

(continuing)
'they will not have an interest in demonstrating that we can succeed outside the EU.' he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

An MP leaked a delightful conversation with Germany's EU Affairs Chairman Gunther Krichbaum where Gunther Krichbaum threatened the UK with trade war and economic collapse during a meeting.

Quote

'It is impossible for the EU to launch a trade war against a departing member under World Trade Organization rules, (...) not that French wine producers or German car manufacturers would allow their governments to threaten access to a market as important as the UK anyway.'

I would love to see Germany try to enact a continental blockade upon the UK, but that argument would apply in reverse. Less than half of our exports go to the EU but that's still a good share, so who would be willing to back down first? With Germany's spending having already created a debt timebomb and their immigration expenditure having risen to 50 Billion Euroa, I am comfortable in saying the answer is set.
Currently the EU is more dependent upon the UK than the UK to the EU, because the UK imports more from the rest of the world (the EU's share in the UK having fallen 10% lately) and the UK is not an industrial economy like Germany, it is a post-industrial financial economy. I think that most countries and economic groups within the EU wouldn't join any blockade. Belgium, the Netherlands and Sweden seem to still be more or less with Berlin. A trade war would destroy Germany not the UK.

Also from the article:

Quote

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Germany is not just willing to sacrifice themselves for the Commission project, they are willing to sacrifice others unwillingly too. So far Russia has been non-stop probing UK defences to find weakness and they've treated us with more respect and cooperation than Germany. Gunther Krichbaum also threatened our Prime Minister with dire consequences if he limited immigration to the UK, like I said Germany has been at the centre of this trying to sabotage anyone's effort at stopping the crisis from day 1 till Kingdom come.
Gunther Krichbaum probably was not trying to make a statement to the UK and just let his ambition out in a Freudian slip, and that he probably does not represent a good load of Germans who just want to be culturally enriched in peace. But I always love the irony that Germany is led by people who desire more sanctions to be placed on the United Kingdoms than on the Russian Federation.

Spoiler: UK exports/imports (click to show/hide)

The top exports of the United Kingdom are:
Cars ($40.7B)
Refined Petroleum ($29.8B)
Crude Petroleum ($22.7B)
Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B)
Gas Turbines ($17.2B)

Its top imports are:
Cars ($40.3B)
Crude Petroleum ($39.6B)
Refined Petroleum ($28.8B)
Packaged Medicaments ($18B)
Computers ($16.2B)

The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are:
United States ($50.2B)
Germany ($46.6B)
the Netherlands ($36B)
France ($28.8B)
Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

The top import origins are:
Germany ($88.8B)
China ($55.2B)
the Netherlands ($52.1B)
France ($39B)
United States ($37.8B)

The UK has a powerful car industry, and Germany is uninterested in nuclear power recently. I think if the USA imploded for some reasons things would be different. China would not be subject to a ban and would swoop in.
I'd rather be in the company of friends like the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and Japan. Those countries don't try to destroy the UK, they give us money, cultural enrichment and good exports, and when it comes to defence we actually defend one another instead of trying to destroy one another.
Germany is still dependent upon the UK, Norway and Netherlands for its alternative gas imports, the rest it is getting from Russia. If the Germans want to shoot off their legs more then that's fine by me, UK gas production is slowing down anyways so it'd really just be speeding up the inevitable and just handing the keys to Russia faster.

Spoiler: German gas import percentages (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SbNT3H6.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Cheeetar on February 15, 2016, 05:42:33 pm

Please don't, Dorsidwarf? If somebody is ignoring somebody, trust that it's for a good reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 15, 2016, 05:51:31 pm

Quote from: Cheeetar on February 15, 2016, 05:42:33 pm

Please don't, Dorsidwarf? If somebody is ignoring somebody, trust that it's for a good reason.

what about nazis ignoring jews pleas to spare their lives while releasing the killing gas into the death chamber

this is probably a bad example, but i can't exactly pinpoint why, so i'll just leave it here

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on February 15, 2016, 06:03:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 15, 2016, 05:51:31 pm

Quote from: Cheeetar on February 15, 2016, 05:42:33 pm

Please don't, Dorsidwarf? If somebody is ignoring somebody, trust that it's for a good reason.

what about nazis ignoring jews pleas to spare their lives while releasing the killing gas into the death chamber

this is probably a bad example, but i can't exactly pinpoint why, so i'll just leave it here

Because it brings forth the zombie of Godwin from his grave and it is a pain to put him back in it again?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 15, 2016, 06:17:02 pm

Quote from: Cheeetar on February 15, 2016, 05:42:33 pm

Please don't, Dorsidwarf? If somebody is ignoring somebody, trust that it's for a good reason.

Eh, I do admit that I've developed the habit of more or less just skimming LW's posts. Dorsi's right though, that one was both readable and somewhat interesting. I'd like to remark though that it is somewhat misleading to list the Continental countries separately instead of as one 'EU' block.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 02:13:07 am

Same here I'll admit. Too bad your translation came after I had already had to strain my eyeballs on the original post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2016, 06:25:56 am

Today in Ukraine, members of the Ukrainian parliament gathered enough signatures to start a vote of no confidence againt prime minister Jatsenjoek.
His popularity, since he came into power after Janoekovic was removed from power after the Maidan protests, has been dropping to zero. His opponents blame him for not doing enough to stop corruption.

Today, he will have to defend himself in parliament, and it's uncertain if after that, he will still be prime minister.

If he falls, president will either call for new elections, but there's also rumour that he will promote Micheïl Saakasjvil, current governor of Odessa, and the former president of Georgia to take his place.
This would certainly displease Putin, since Micheïl Saakasjvili could be considered his arch nemesis enemy
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/-genoeg-handtekeningen-voor-val-oekraiense-premier~a4245707/
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Guardian G.I. on February 16, 2016, 08:03:48 am

In the meantime, the EU has lifted sanctions against Belarus (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belarus-eu-sanctions-idUSKCN0VO1TP). It is unknown how long it will last, but judging by the past 10-15 years or so, such a diplomatic thaw is unlikely to last long.

On an unrelated note, Ukraine and Poland have been quarrelling with Russia over freight truck transit since late January - it resulted in all parties shutting down their borders for the truckers of their enemy. Belarusian border crossings at motorways leading into Lithuania and its freight port of Klaipeda are jammed with Russian trucks (http://auto.tut.by/news/road/484697.html) - taking a ferry into Sweden or Germany is the only route into the EU available to them (for now). If this continues, it'll probably lead to a rapid rise of Belarusian logistic companies, because only vehicles with Belarusian licence plates will be able to travel around the region without running into any politically motivated blockades*. :P

*Several Belarusian trucks got stuck in a traffic jam caused by Ukrainian nationalist barricades (http://auto.tut.by/news/road/484669.html) last week, though, but that's collateral damage, I guess :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on February 16, 2016, 08:19:38 am

Quote from: Guardian G.I. on February 16, 2016, 08:03:48 am

In the meantime, the EU has lifted sanctions against Belarus (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belarus-eu-sanctions-idUSKCN0VO1TP). It is unknown how long it will last, but judging by the past 10-15 years or so, such a diplomatic thaw is unlikely to last long.

On an unrelated note, Ukraine and Poland have been quarrelling with Russia over freight truck transit since late January - it resulted in all parties shutting down their borders for the truckers of their enemy. Belarusian border crossings at motorways leading into Lithuania and its freight port of Klaipeda are jammed with Russian trucks (http://auto.tut.by/news/road/484697.html) - taking a ferry into Sweden or Germany is the only route into the EU available to them (for now). If this continues, it'll probably lead to a rapid rise of Belarusian logistic companies, because only vehicles with Belarusian licence plates will be able to travel around the region without running into any politically motivated blockades*. :P

*Several Belarusian trucks got stuck in a traffic jam caused by Ukrainian nationalist barricades (http://auto.tut.by/news/road/484669.html) last week, though, but that's collateral damage, I guess :p

There's more to the story. I can't currently look for printed sources (I need to run in a couple minutes), I'm going by Polish radio.

Polan freight trucks cannot into Russia and vice versa - but Ukrainian activists have been blocking the Russian transit through Ukraine too, and from what I heard Ukraine is/is planning to officially get the Russian trucks B& as well, citing the Russian involvement in You-Know-What. Which means that there's an unbroken borderline from south coast of the Baltic Sea to the north of Black Sea between Russian transit and Europe not letting the trucks through.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Guardian G.I. on February 16, 2016, 08:58:06 am

Quote from: scrdest on February 16, 2016, 08:19:38 am

Polan freight trucks cannot into Russia and vice versa - but Ukrainian activists have been blocking the Russian transit through Ukraine too, and from what I heard Ukraine is/is planning to officially get the Russian trucks B& as well

Russian trucks are already B& in Ukraine (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-idUSKCN0VO1C6); those who were stuck in the Ukrainian territory moved into Belarus (http://auto.tut.by/news/road/484815.html). The Ukrainian ban was a response to a Russian closure of their border to Ukrainian trucks, and the Russian ban was enacted in response to a Ukrainian blockade of Russian trucks at its border, which was a reaction to Russia and Poland closing the borders to their respective truck drivers.

What a nice cycle of revenge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 09:02:11 am

In the past two days (not sure if it was yesterday or the day before yesterday) B&H (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina) has applied for EU membership status. The very beginning of the road to joining the EU.

Considering the state the country is in, and the state the EU is in at the moment and where it seems to be heading, I'm willing to bet good money that we will never see this membership thing materialise simply because by the time we'll be anywhere approaching ready the EU will have fallen apart or lost most of what made it good.

I'm really rooting for UK to leave the union tho, simply to see what comes of it afterwards, hopefully such a huge thing might be a wake-up call to the other member states to get their shit together and stop this madness, or atleast, mitigate the horrible mess as best they can, because it feels like the train has left the station and nobody bothered to check if it had any brakes.

Edit: Because not everyone knows the shorthand for the retardedly long name of my country of origin

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 16, 2016, 09:24:13 am

Quote from: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 09:02:11 am

B&H

wut be dat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on February 16, 2016, 09:34:42 am

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on February 16, 2016, 09:24:13 am

Quote from: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 09:02:11 am

B&H

wut be dat

Bosina and Herzegovina.

edit: Ninja'd by Jopax's edit. I did mispell the country name a little. edit: fixed country name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 16, 2016, 09:36:27 am

Oh, I was right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 10:07:37 am

Yeah, it's a long way ahead, but at least the process of joining might force Bosnia's leadership to improve its game.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 10:13:55 am

That would mean that they have a game other than "Steal as much as possible while trying your best to fuck over the other two sides"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 10:37:29 am

Wait, I though they only had two sides in B&H? I must say, as I Belgian I love seeing a country more dysfunctional than mine.

In other sad Bosnian new, the Bosnian place down from my dorm apparently closed, and its owner opened a Bosnian hair salon next door. My stomach pine for burek.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 11:24:08 am

Nope, in true balkan fashion it's a three way clusterfuck between Serbs, Croats and Bosnians (or Bosniaks as they like to call themselves because apparently being islamized Serbs/Croats makes you a nationality or something now)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 16, 2016, 12:28:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 10:37:29 am

In other sad Bosnian new, the Bosnian place down from my dorm apparently closed, and its owner opened a Bosnian hair salon next door. My stomach pine for burek.

You can probably just ask him. If he likes you, maybe he'll get his wife to make some to order.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2016, 01:40:20 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 15, 2016, 05:03:12 pm

So, EU represent about 50% of UK trade, UK represent about 8% or rEU trade, so the rEU is going to bow backward to Westminster because we need them so much? Welcome to the wonderful world of LW logic.

Ha, I do not want or need domination of the EU so the EU bending backwards is not the goal, the EU represents less than half of our imports - do you know what happens when we don't buy German? We buy America, we buy Chinese, we buy British, we buy Japanese - tell me how Germany can compete, and what happens when Germany cuts itself off from British money and gas? Because for us, there is literally the entire rest of the world and the Commonwealth. All I need is the EU to stop trying to destroy my country, which is much more achievable than domination.

Quote from: Sheb on February 15, 2016, 05:03:12 pm

Also, I love how you're spinning that as a trade war. The thing is that if the UK leaves the EU, it leaves the common market. Spoiler alert, when you leave the EU, you leave the benefits associated with the EU.

Yeah and Russia never went to war with Ukraine and the US was just policing Iraq, news at 10 a trade war is not a trade war when we call it punitive action

Quote from: Sheb on February 15, 2016, 05:03:12 pm

The Eurosceptic fantasy that they can leave the EU but still keep all the parts they like is just a fantasy. It's be hilarious if the Brits ended up paying more to the EU budget when outside than in, like the Norwegians. :p

Quote from: Cheeetar on February 15, 2016, 05:42:33 pm

Please don't, Dorsidwarf? If somebody is ignoring somebody, trust that it's for a good reason.

Yeah I'm not the only one noticing you actually ignored my entire argument in favour of strawman fantasies

Sheb u bein a pleb sheb m8 u muggy blot i swer on me nan lik im gettin shekels wiv me m8s down guandong if u kno what i mean cos u takin liberties get in the bin
I am just disappointed with you

Seriously if we can have free trade with China (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals) without China controlling our government then we'll just trade with China and let Germany's fiscally unbalanced and stagnant economy falter, because it is increasingly self-evident that Germany is not our friend. I say Germany as well, because as I have said before only now the countries Germany hasn't isolated itself from are Sweden, Netherlands and Belgium. Heck, I say Germany when really I should say German government, and when I say that it's loads of muppets you don't even get to vote for :P

Quote

In the last few years we have made a huge difference and built a much stronger bilateral trading relationship between our countries. The figures tell the story - bilateral trade at record levels, our exports to China up 15% in 2013, they have more than doubled in the last 5 years and at £1 billion a month, they are growing faster than France or Germany.
These figures prove once again that Britain is the most open economy in the EU, the most welcoming to Chinese investment including in our nuclear industry and our infrastructure and I’m determined to keep it that way.

You would have to divorce the US-UK special relationship, bankrupt the banking capital of the world (hehehehehe), turn the ambivalent Chinese against making money in their most popular investment site, unite all of the EU in common policy necessitating ludicrous power grabs (though once the UK is out that's really your call) and assumes there won't just be some glorious mockery of the sanctions the same way Russia at the end of the day got everything through Serbia and still had a Germany dependent on their gas.

Also top kek, Norway's shekels to the EU are humanitarian
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/#.VsNWpeYaqrJ
Honestly if Norwegian politicians weren't all proggy (with even their eurosceptics being left-wing) and they had the shekelry of the UK zero fucks would be given, if even progressives in Norway will not put a price on their democracy then I will be damned ten fold if I with more means deny myself.

Now I wonder why you didn't address my numbers but retorted with an uncited conglomeration, so here's the Dorsidorf edit again

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2016, 04:30:03 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the Metro. pro-EU paper posts headline:

Quote

Brexit: EU 'will punish Britain'
BRITAIN will be punished by spurned allies if it quits the EU, foreign secretary Philip Hammond warned yesterday. The minister was accused of 'blackmailing' voters after claiming Europe might put up trade barriers to stop us succeeding alone. He said EU leaders were worried that, if Britain left, the 'contagion' would spread and more countries would drop out.

Philip Hammond is a UK MP, he is likeminded with our Prime Minister, pro-EU,but was formerly eurosceptic. In 2015 he was the one to introduce the European referendum bill to Parliament.
 He might be taking bribes, but the most logical explanation is that he's waiting to see how Cameron's negotiations with Merkel turn out while retaining a political safety-net if they do work.

Quote

(continuing)
'they will not have an interest in demonstrating that we can succeed outside the EU.' he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

An MP leaked a delightful conversation with Germany's EU Affairs Chairman Gunther Krichbaum where Gunther Krichbaum threatened the UK with trade war and economic collapse during a meeting.

Quote

'It is impossible for the EU to launch a trade war against a departing member under World Trade Organization rules, (...) not that French wine producers or German car manufacturers would allow their governments to threaten access to a market as important as the UK anyway.'

I would love to see Germany try to enact a continental blockade upon the UK, but that argument would apply in reverse. Less than half of our exports go to the EU but that's still a good share, so who would be willing to back down first? With Germany's spending having already created a debt timebomb and their immigration expenditure having risen to 50 Billion Euroa, I am comfortable in saying the answer is set.
Currently the EU is more dependent upon the UK than the UK to the EU, because the UK imports more from the rest of the world (the EU's share in the UK having fallen 10% lately) and the UK is not an industrial economy like Germany, it is a post-industrial financial economy. I think that most countries and economic groups within the EU wouldn't join any blockade. Belgium, the Netherlands and Sweden seem to still be more or less with Berlin. A trade war would destroy Germany not the UK.

Also from the article:

Quote

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Germany is not just willing to sacrifice themselves for the Commission project, they are willing to sacrifice others unwillingly too. So far Russia has been non-stop probing UK defences to find weakness and they've treated us with more respect and cooperation than Germany. Gunther Krichbaum also threatened our Prime Minister with dire consequences if he limited immigration to the UK, like I said Germany has been at the centre of this trying to sabotage anyone's effort at stopping the crisis from day 1 till Kingdom come.
Gunther Krichbaum probably was not trying to make a statement to the UK and just let his ambition out in a Freudian slip, and that he probably does not represent a good load of Germans who just want to be culturally enriched in peace. But I always love the irony that Germany is led by people who desire more sanctions to be placed on the United Kingdoms than on the Russian Federation.

UK exports/imports:

The top exports of the United Kingdom are:
Cars ($40.7B)
Refined Petroleum ($29.8B)
Crude Petroleum ($22.7B)
Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B)
Gas Turbines ($17.2B)

Its top imports are:
Cars ($40.3B)
Crude Petroleum ($39.6B)
Refined Petroleum ($28.8B)
Packaged Medicaments ($18B)
Computers ($16.2B)

The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are:
United States ($50.2B)
Germany ($46.6B)
the Netherlands ($36B)
France ($28.8B)
Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

The top import origins are:
Germany ($88.8B)
China ($55.2B)
the Netherlands ($52.1B)
France ($39B)
United States ($37.8B)

The UK has a powerful car industry, and Germany is uninterested in nuclear power recently. I think if the USA imploded for some reasons things would be different. China would not be subject to a ban and would swoop in.
I'd rather be in the company of friends like the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, China and Japan. Those countries don't try to destroy the UK, they give us money, cultural enrichment and good exports, and when it comes to defence we actually defend one another instead of trying to destroy one another.
Germany is still dependent upon the UK, Norway and Netherlands for its alternative gas imports, the rest it is getting from Russia. If the Germans want to shoot off their legs more then that's fine by me, UK gas production is slowing down anyways so it'd really just be speeding up the inevitable and just handing the keys to Russia faster.
German Gas import origin market share:

(http://i.imgur.com/SbNT3H6.jpg)

This is without even noting that foreign trade has had a negative effect on German economic growth (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth). You have no idea how much fun I have seeing people who should know better threatening people who know their strengths, someone is needed here and it doesn't rhyme with Sherman. German industry has so many competitors, British money has none, a shekel here is a shekel anywhere in the world - dollar is King. The UK in this regard is quite lucky because we also do our own free trade negotiations or the opposite, Italy for example because they are within the EU gets no say on whether their tariffs stay or go to protect Italian industry from cheap Chinese goods. They have no say because they cannot decide for themselves any EU policy, that being decided for Germany, and if interests do not align - who loses out there? For Greece, for Portugal, for Ireland and now Italy, the answer is consistent. You pay the toll you get the troll, whilst the UK gets some very nice merch!
Also top kek UK imports from MINT (https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=0efe9346-ff22-4362-84b9-1e2362b9660b) and BRIC (https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=4738dca7-b304-4f4f-b00d-5e0f9223bdeb) fill my taste buds with joy.

Spoiler: histfluff (click to show/hide)

A long time ago the first British Empire arose, the one that was all about the Americas with Newfoundland, the Caribbean and the Thirteen Colonies. The problem was however in that the Colonies were exceedingly expensive and producing no profit. How could that be the gov wondered? English wool sold so well! So they investigated and found out that the Dutch had been doing something rather sneaky - they had been conducting free trade, capable of procuring and selling their own wool to English colonies three times cheaper!
And so begins the next three Anglo-Dutch wars, with the English actually at several points in spite of having the Royal Navy at their disposal against the Dutch, were so incapable of financing themselves against the profit of Dutch free trade they could scarcely afford victory.

In the East Indies however there was another British outpost, far away from Britain that was acting in quite the opposite fashion. The reason why ports like Manila, Johor or Macau were not the go-to ports of Asia and Singapore and Hong Kong were (with both literally turning from useless rocks to the bastions of international finance they are today, Hong Kong was even given away as a joke), is for the very reason that the governor of it destroyed all tariffs and no one wanted to go to Spanish, Dutch or Portuguese ports that did have tariffs, it was much cheaper to run at Singapore. So they did.

When the Ottoman Empire freely traded with the Europeans, they were dependent upon them for their manufactured goods and the Europeans desired greatly the raw materials of the Empire - however in their glut for manufacturing materials, they had also driven up the price which was making it hard for local Ottoman craftsmen to make a living. The Ottoman Empire then started imposing trade barriers that were ignored by corrupt officials and the Europeans actually increased their market share as a result and ensured the Economic decline of the Empire and its increasing dependence upon rival European powers.

The USA in its infancy faces a stark divide between the North and South, the United versus the Confederacy, the battle for free men or slaves - the Confederates withheld their cotton from exporting to Europe assuming that the Europeans would be plying for American cotton for their factories and would be quick to intervene and restore stability to the USA and a return to the status quo that protected American cotton farms and slavery. To their dismay the Europeans just begin growing their own cotton, and do not aid them. They are defeated.

Perhaps most relevant is when Napoleon tried economically destroying Great Britain.
The Napoleonic Empire had at this time conquered all of continental Europe or else had forced the compliance of all the nations of Europe, Ottomans aside. One nation remained because of that fucking ditch, the United Kingdoms. Being the first to undergo the Industrial Revolution, every brick of tea, every bar of soap and every engine had a little print saying 'Made in Britain' fashioned by the hands of an English sweatshop child, (though today that role has been outsourced to China), some things never change. Another thing that hasn't changed is that as a result of this Revolutionary headstart, London had become the Industrial and Business centre of Europe. Not being able to subjugate, destroy or coerce the United Kingdoms militarily or politically, Napoleon tried his hand at economics. He issued the Berlin Decree, forbidding his allies and his conquered states to do any business with the United Kingdoms. Further than that, he even declared that any neutral shipping paying British service at their ports would be considered British and seized.
Napoleon Bonaparte in charge of the French Empire had just roflestomped the European continent. The French had trouble with corrupt customs officers and with controlling their allies, but overall the Berlin Decree was successful in reducing British exports to the Continent by almost a quarter to a half.

To his dismay this did not result in the economic collapse and hyperinflation of the United Kingdoms.

The British just increased trade to North and South America.

Napoleon's blockade caused much suffering for the French and Dutch though and turned most of Europe against France when they realized the embargo had not hurt the UK and they had inflicted this suffering upon themselves in vain. Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Iberia and Russia ensues as they withdraw from the blockade. Quite symbolic really, that installing a blockade upon Britain walks hand in hand with invading Russia during winter.

The parallels today are quite obvious. London is the business and financial centre of Europe and now also the world. It conducts more tons of commercial shipping than it has at any point in its history. And an upstart continental is assuming it has some arrogant right to decide it can conquer the UK through trade war. Germany doesn't even have the uboats to try and stop us trading with the rest of the world anymore, whilst our blue water navy is still mucking about. Trade with Germany is good because Germans make some good stuff, but if they're going to not treat us like allies and treat us like contagions to be exterminated with Mengelian nazi pride the UK is dropping Berlin faster than you can say scheiße :P And that honestly goes for whether we choose to drop the Commission or uphold it in the end, you cannot treat your allies like Greece, least of all ones with teeth. It's immoral, and worse - it bites you in the arse. I do love the irony in island nations being free to associate with the world whilst continental ones are isolated in their midst.

P.s. I'm no shekelphobe Dorsidorf, I am very shekelprogressive, all shekels are good whether you call them euroshekel, sterlingshekel, dollarshekel, shekelshekel e.t.c.

Quote from: Helgoland on February 15, 2016, 06:17:02 pm

Eh, I do admit that I've developed the habit of more or less just skimming LW's posts. Dorsi's right though, that one was both readable and somewhat interesting. I'd like to remark though that it is somewhat misleading to list the Continental countries separately instead of as one 'EU' block.

It is misleading to list the countries as one bloc, when they do not act as one. It is why I always point out the insanity of trying to use holistic EU statistics for Sweden and Germany's humanitarian crisis when they are alone on this. France is not threatening us with trade war, Portugal is not threatening us with trade war, Denmark is not, Poland is not, Hungary is not, Austria is not, Spain is not, Italy is not e.t.c.
Only German ministers, with Gunther Krichbaum being a repeat offender.

Quote from: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 09:02:11 am

I'm really rooting for UK to leave the union tho, simply to see what comes of it afterwards, hopefully such a huge thing might be a wake-up call to the other member states to get their shit together and stop this madness, or atleast, mitigate the horrible mess as best they can, because it feels like the train has left the station and nobody bothered to check if it had any brakes.

Indeed. Whether any other nations follow suit or not the EU would have to take into consideration that they actually have to care for their people instead of take it for granted that they'll give them power in exchange for exploitation. There's a silver lining to everything, I sort of want to at least see France, Belgium and Germany fuse together by the end of this century or the next at the very least. The borders would look a lot neater, and the extra reich (less Adolf, more Charlemagne) would be a country for the history books.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 01:56:57 pm

And again, we reach the point where I don't know what's argument, what's shitposting and what's being wrong and I find myself at a loss of how to respond.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2016, 01:58:04 pm

Numbers Sheb, in English or Frenglish numbers are always numbers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 02:52:01 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 16, 2016, 01:50:35 pm

Quote from: Jopax on February 16, 2016, 11:24:08 am

Nope, in true balkan fashion it's a three way clusterfuck between Serbs, Croats and Bosnians (or Bosniaks as they like to call themselves because apparently being islamized Serbs/Croats makes you a nationality or something now)

It always makes me sad to read about my father's home country, since it's... well, B&H. Even though my dad's not truly Bosnian (he was born back when it was Yugoslavia, to a Croatian father and Serbian mother in or nearby Sarajevo), he still refers to himself as such. Not Bosniak or whatever, but Bosnian.

Pretty much, because it's a region that people are from and that's what most people call them. It's only recently that certain elements have begun pushing the Bosniak thing, mostly to have a reason the keep their third of power. Another thing related to that is the recent (well not so anymore) population poll (or whatever the thing where they basically interview everyone in the country in regards to their nationality, religion etc.) is still to see the light of day, because clearly the nubmers would disfavour an equal three way split and we can't have that now can we. Not when the dipshits in charge are so close to paying off their third mansion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 17, 2016, 11:15:44 am

whahahahahahahaha wut.
wait

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WUT

WAIT WUT LOL?


Okay. The Russian government started a new campaign against smoking.
You can find big posters now in busstations in Moskou, of...

president Obama, smoking a cigarette.

The subscript is:
"Smoking kills more people than Obama, and Obama kills many.
Don't smoke, don't be like Obama"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/17/moscow-anti-smoking-campaign-uses-obamas-image

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 17, 2016, 11:23:25 am

Do not make us liberate you, Putin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 11:28:23 am

Whoever made that needs a pay rise

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 17, 2016, 11:42:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 11:28:23 am

Whoever made that needs a pay rise

Couldn't agree more. He deserves his weight in $$

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 17, 2016, 11:45:03 am

Quote from: Vilanat on February 17, 2016, 11:42:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 11:28:23 am

Whoever made that needs a pay rise

Couldn't agree more. He deserves his weight in $$

If they pay him in rubles, that'd be worth about $5.  At least, this morning. By dinner time, he might not be able to buy a hamburger. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 17, 2016, 11:45:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 17, 2016, 11:15:44 am

whahahahahahahaha wut.
wait

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WUT

WAIT WUT LOL?


Okay. The Russian government started a new campaign against smoking.
You can find big posters now in busstations in Moskou, of...

president Obama, smoking a cigarette.

The subscript is:
"Smoking kills more people than Obama, and Obama kills many.
Don't smoke, don't be like Obama"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/17/moscow-anti-smoking-campaign-uses-obamas-image

Thanks Obama!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

I still don't get your point LW. What's the point of that rant about Napoleon? And no one wants to blockade the UK so why bring up the Royal Navy? No one wants a trade war, but in the event of Brexit, trade negotiations would have to take place, the point the pro-EU people are making is that the UK is going to be lacking leverage.

I think your point is that the UK is in a better position than the rest of the EU for post-Brexit trade negociations, but given the respective size of the economies that just doesn't make sense, and I don't see what the numbers you posted would change. Also, I don't see why you make such a big deal of Germany fiscal situation. Germany is running a 0.7% budget surplus (Compared to a 4.4% budget deficit for the UK), is paying 0.25% interst rate on its bonds (1.47% for the UK) and has debt of 71% of GDP and falling (compared to 88% and climbing for the UK.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 17, 2016, 04:05:22 pm

Disclaimer: points will be deducted for each of  the following words and phrases in the answer.:

Shekel
Progressiv
Shekelprogressive
Kaiser
Reich
Kultur
Sheep
Shekelprogressive
Pleb
Sheb u pleb get in the shed
Shekelprogressive
Kek
Shekelprogressive
Shekelprogressive
Shekelprogressive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:43:39 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

I still don't get your point LW.

Then I shall do my best to illustrate

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

What's the point of that rant about Napoleon? And no one wants to blockade the UK so why bring up the Royal Navy? No one wants a trade war, but in the event of Brexit, trade negotiations would have to take place, the point the pro-EU people are making is that the UK is going to be lacking leverage.

Every single attempt in the past by European continentals to bankrupt the United Kingdoms with trade barriers has resulted in dismal failure because the UK trades with the world, and you can only say the UK lacks leverage when you ignore its leverage - the fact that it does not need German imports, that it does not need German money, that Germany needs UK gas to not have half of its gas imports come from Russia and that Germany can literally do nothing to stop the UK from trading with anyone it doesn't want to, in or out of the EU. If Germany would want to impose as many tariffs as it wants on the UK to try and crush the UK automobile industry those cars just get sent abroad. Just as Napoleon before stimulated transatlantic trade between the UK and the Americas today excellent chancellors like Gunther encourage British redistributors to look to the growing economies of MINT and BRIC, the Commonwealth and the Anglosphere. The reason why I say look at the numbers is because the numbers speak plain language whatever your language, Germany's trade is currently having a negative impact (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth) on the German economy whilst for the UK trade is having a positive impact and less of it comes from continent whilst more of it comes from the globe! At most, if we assume all of the European countries unite as they did under Napoleon and impose trade barriers upon the UK, what happens?
The UK drops tariffs on EU imports to zero and British exports reduce and business goes on as usual. We have no trade deals at all with Nigeria and our exports to them increased by 99% in one year, Germany with her debt bomb can do whatever she wants, she is kicking a cactus field to spite the customer buying from it

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

I think your point is that the UK is in a better position than the rest of the EU for post-Brexit trade negociations

I am not being subtle at all, you do not need to guess what you think my point is when I am very clearly stating what it is, and as long as I have spare time I'm happy to point out anything you think I might be saying that you think I have not made clear enough

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 17, 2016, 04:05:22 pm

Disclaimer: points will be deducted for each of  the following words and phrases in the answer.:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shekel
Progressiv
Shekelprogressive
Kaiser
Reich
Kultur
Sheep
Shekelprogressive
Pleb
Sheb u pleb get in the shed
Shekelprogressive
Kek
Shekelprogressive
Shekelprogressive
Shekelprogressive

No kek do, I am shillingsexual, I'm in love with the drachma, the pecunia is peculiar to me, sterlings are sterling to me~ dolla dolla holla holla

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

but given the respective size of the economies that just doesn't make sense, and I don't see what the numbers you posted would change.

Are you legitimately arguing that the 5th largest economy in the world with the financial capital of the world doesn't have its own breadbasket sorted? Kudos to the likes of Covenant for pointing out we could have more industry sure, but we are not reliant on our industry at all whereas for Germany it is key. These are the numbers and what my point was for each I've already posted, in their barest form:

(Broken up into three posts because this is by far the longest and most detailed citation-chucked analysis on Europol I've ever done. I think there's only two or three moments of shitpostery in it too). When talking about numbers, one talks numbers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

Spoiler: spoilered for Helgo's benefit (click to show/hide)

The Norway payment argument
The argument that Norway pays more to the EU than if they joined as far as I can tell seems to have popped up from Guardian memes that ignore Norway's contributions are humanitarian and are a result of leftist MPs in Norway who want to help Southern European countries recover from German administration.
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/#.VsNWpeYaqrJ
Easiest number to explain. The argument as well that Norway must comply with EU regulations when exporting and having no say also makes little sense, it's very sneaky too. If in Britain we make a Jaguar car that we intend to export to the USA we must comply with their regulations so their car isn't built to be driven on the wrong side of the road, yet no one would argue that we must join Washington in order to have Washington regulate our own cars (???), and that's even assuming we get any say when we don't, having no legislative power, veto or regulatory power from elected or unelected national bodies (well, we do, but that's because we regularly tell EU regulators to fuck off), why on Earth is this an argument for giving a foreign body regulatory authority on domestic affairs, and more than that - supremacy over national law? "Oh yeah, we'll decide you can't put UK flags on your beef in Britain so your high regulation standards cannot create any untolerant competition with Polish horsebeef, in exchange we'll try take over your country, remove your borders, remove your national bank, take control of your currency, your military and you get an icecream at the end."
That's why the general response is simple: Fuck off, you don't get a say in regulating us because you just don't represent us, and even if the EU actually gave me the authority to decide if French winemakers weren't allowed to put French flags on their wine to avoid "unfair" competition against British winemakers that's not how the bloody free market works and I don't want domination of France. On the moral argument, if we can have free trade with China (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals) without China controlling our government, what is the EU for? The fact that you have to pretend this is not a political project and speak of it in terms of a free market speaks volumes. The UK joined a common market, it did not join a political union - for that matter, no one joined a political union. Yet here we are today, in a political union.

Drop the shekels, trade war now
I'm requoting this: 'It is impossible for the EU to launch a trade war against a departing member under World Trade Organization rules, (...) not that French wine producers or German car manufacturers would allow their governments to threaten access to a market as important as the UK anyway.'
Now I hinge nothing on international law, as it has always been mocked and flaunted whenever convenient and I don't doubt this would be any different. Now here is where the numbers come in:
Germany exported to the UK $105,122,552,228, the UK exported to Germany $51,158,697,462. (http://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/germany/tradestats) That means Germany is profiting $54,000,000,000 off of Anglo-German trade. If they try to impose trade barriers, they are kicking the cactus field - and its their own cacti, because that $54,000,000,000 stops going to Germany, and starts going to the USA, to BRIC, to MINT, to the Commonwealth (it is honestly much easier to list the countries we're not trading with than to list the ones we are). The UK will still get her imports but Germany will not be getting sterling, and will have to look attract buyers from elsewhere. I do not think they will bother with the effort unless they believe depriving themselves of $50B a year hurts the UK :P
Just look at the statistics (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/uktrade/uk-trade/june-2015/stb-uk-trade--june-2015.html), less and less British goods (British exports to the EU between May and June even fell $300,000,000 in just one month) because Europe just does not offer us nearly as many opportunities to grow as actually growing economies across the sea. Meanwhile imports rose as European manufacturers have had trouble finding customers like the UK who are nearby, wealthy and buying! If you do not understand how this works, it is the person with the money who has the leverage here, not the person producing the products. Germany dominates the EU and makes the EU fit their agenda, and Germany is much more dependent upon British customers than the other way around. It's very simple - British customers can go abroad to every continent in the world, German products cannot.

The UK cannot survive without EU imports.
This is a sneaky one. This argument hinges on the notion that the UK will somehow be isolated from all EU imports and the EU will be able to stop French wine makers from selling wine to the UK and German car manufacturers from selling German cars to the UK e.t.c.
An independent UK would set its own tariffs and would decide on its own whether it wants to charge French wine makers to export to the UK (which it wouldn't, seeing as the UK is the sixth biggest consumer of wine in the world). French wine is perhaps the most significant leverage Germany could ever hope to hold, because the UK can survive entirely independent of EU imports in all things except French wine. In all other cases the UK can just import from another country or just use their domestic industry, but even with recent climate change allowing for excellent domestic UK champagne on a par with champagne from champagne, the brand image, the tradition and the scale of French winemaking is without parallel. Simply put, France holds a monopoly on French Wine. The most damage that a post-UK EU could possibly inflict on the UK is doing something like imposing a Britwine duty tax on any wine leaving France for Britain to try and raise the price of exporting wine to the UK and force French winemakers to sell more to Germany, the Netherlands, the USA and China. Assuming they also closed any Serbia-esque loopholes where the UK didn't just import French wine through Belgium or Ireland, this would quickly become a wine war between British drinkers and French producers. When it comes to chemical stimulants the rules of free trade do not apply the same way :D
It is notable I think, that the UK's eurosceptics drink beer and ale, whilst our europhiles drink wine and champagne.
So to summarize, the EU would not be able to stop European countries from exporting to the UK without damaging those countries whilst leaving the UK unscathed. With one exception - stopping French wine. Currently this is no issue for the UK as global wine sales have fallen leaving France even more dependent upon UK consumption, but if France managed to reduce her wine dependency on the UK (maybe just double up domestic drinking?) this one is achievable, and would raise prices on UK wine and result in thousands of cases of horrible sobriety.

The EU could make life difficult for British exporters.
This one is much easier for the EU to do, they may not be able to stop Europeans from exporting to the UK but they can at the very least try and discourage British manufacturers from exporting to the EU with extra regulations, tariffs and paper just for the lols. It would help employ more EU bureaucrats too, cos Arkad knows the EU doesn't have enough bureaucrats :D
Just looking at the import/export statistics of the UK's top trading partners is gleeful:
http://i.imgur.com/2LiI0ro.png
Non-German countries offer us more already without any of the hassle, and any nation that sides with Germany's politicians on this can be cut out of the equation quite easily, exception being Ireland where we already have preexisting free trade deals and citizen benefits which predate the European Union's existence. Well, we already have a lot of free trade deals with Europe, given history and all, but again let's not take anything for granted and assume only by the numbers, as as we've accepted international law is sadly flaunted at will by design or accident.
Let us look at the numbers:

Quote

In the last few years we have made a huge difference and built a much stronger bilateral trading relationship between our countries. The figures tell the story - bilateral trade at record levels, our exports to China up 15% in 2013, they have more than doubled in the last 5 years and at £1 billion a month, they are growing faster than France or Germany.
These figures prove once again that Britain is the most open economy in the EU, the most welcoming to Chinese investment including in our nuclear industry and our infrastructure and I’m determined to keep it that way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals

The top exports of the United Kingdom are: Cars ($40.7B), Refined Petroleum ($29.8B), Crude Petroleum ($22.7B), Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B), Gas Turbines ($17.2B)
Its top imports are: Cars ($40.3B), Crude Petroleum ($39.6B), Refined Petroleum ($28.8B), Packaged Medicaments ($18B), Computers ($16.2B)
The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are: United States ($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B), Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)
The top import origins are: Germany ($88.8B), China ($55.2B), the Netherlands ($52.1B), France ($39B), United States ($37.8B)
Most of our cars and engines go to three countries in particular, the USA, Germany and China. Germany may actually be able to profit here by trying to impose restrictions on British engines entering Europe in favour of German car engines, just as long as Germany manages their carbon emissions scandal. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772) Yet the EU cannot stop us from exporting to the rest of the world which offers more profit anyways, resulting in the situation where export to China increased to $18,070,724,927, to India increased to $3,911,180,179, and trade with the rest of
BRIC (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=0efe9346-ff22-4362-84b9-1e2362b9660b) and
MINT (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=4738dca7-b304-4f4f-b00d-5e0f9223bdeb) is healthy. Except with Russia, where trade pretty much halved, but sanctions and all you know. Then there is the issue of crude and refined forms of oil, where Germany can try their best to stop oil flowing (hahaha) but their energy needs will then have to come from somewhere else. And there is only one who can replace the UK for Germany: RUSSYA
http://i.imgur.com/SbNT3H6.jpg
This was the chart I used earlier for 2005, eurostat gave me this:
http://i.imgur.com/UrHLlNj.jpg
And of Norwegian gas, most of it goes to the UK anyways:
http://i.imgur.com/Pj4KQfl.png
Germany can try to cut off UK gas exports, but without any realistic alternative suppliers they would either have to have their entire country's industry incapable of manufacturing anything from petrochemicals, capable of powering themselves, powering their homes or heating them or cooking their food - or they could place their fate in the hands of Vladimir Putin.

GLORY GLORY RUSSYA

Also our gas turbines are global, as are our pharmaceuticals. Though I would be amused to see Germany driving up the price of their own medicine and energy kek

But they could right?
The EU could make life hard for UK exporters within Europe to try and discourage them and encourage local competition, this has good chances of helping European industries avoid British competition (French nuclear vs British nuclear, German cars vs British cars comes to mind), but UK exporters are increasingly exporting outside of the EU, the countries we export to within the EU we already have free trade deals with. That is also assuming the European Union possesses the mechanisms to actually restrict British exports, given just how much Chinese steel has made a mockery of Europe's struggling steel industries (I told you Covenant, I warned you bro, if the UK had not moved on from steel a long time ago we'd be in the same boat as Germany today). Nothing is impossible though, so on the offchance Germany tries to restrict British exports to Europe she will have to give the British market share in German energy to Russia, and she possesses no naval force capable of stopping British exports from going across the world, so there is nothing stopping Britain from using Turkey/Ireland/Switzerland/Norway, hell even Russia, Israel or Ukraine to export British goods to Europe, and there is nothing stopping Britain from merely exporting more to the Americas, to Africa, or any of the burgeoning economies all across Asia. Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014. However, the stronger export growth to non-EU countries has resulted in the proportion of UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html). Simply put the much faster growth found elsewhere than within the EU has meant already the economies of the globe are more important to the United Kingdoms. I don't believe the EU under a fully centralized nation state that has abolished all national democracy completely would even be able to stop British exports to Europe just as Napoleon failed to despite having his Berlin decree backed by more than words - he had the greatest military force of his time at his disposal. And from the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014? We're better off in the sun and the tropics where the real shekels are at.

But what of ISIS, Russia, Ukrainians, Syrians, refugees, immigrants, autocrats and the cheeky banter?
Yeah that is an interesting point I just made up.
Mainly in response to this:

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2016, 01:55:10 pm

Also, I don't see why you make such a big deal of Germany fiscal situation. Germany is running a 0.7% budget surplus (Compared to a 4.4% budget deficit for the UK), is paying 0.25% interst rate on its bonds (1.47% for the UK) and has debt of 71% of GDP and falling (compared to 88% and climbing for the UK.)

NO CITATIONS SHEB MAKES LW A DULL PLEB
An internal government report seen by Die Welt am Sonntag predicts that Germany will have to take on uncontrollable debt if it doesn’t start making huge budget cuts now. It’s the same old problem: not only Germans are living longer than ever before, they’re not producing enough offspring to replace them in the workforce. The result will be levels of debt reaching 220 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by 2060 - well above the 60 percent limit for EU member states set out by the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 - experts from inside Wolfgang Schäuble's finance ministry have calculated. But to do this would require budget cuts in the region of €7 billion a year, starting immediately - and that’s according to the finance report's more optimistic scenario for the future. (http://www.thelocal.de/20160212/germany-must-act-now-to-prevent-debt-time-bomb)
Which would be easier had Germany not done this to themselves:

Quote from: Antioch on February 02, 2016, 03:35:53 pm

Apparently the refugee situation will cost Germany around 50 billion euros in 2016-2017
Now I still hold that for 50 billion we could have easily supported Jordania Lebanon and Turkey into improving the refugee situation there (and the majority IS STILL THERE in abysmal conditions now)  and solved the issue locally.
http://www.rp-online.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-kosten-deutschland-50-milliarden-euro-aid-1.5732479

For the UK however our deficit is forecast to fall. Not that there's anything wrong with borrowing money if it's invested well, we're not exactly splashing out as Greece did we're running the financial capital of the world here, it's why we're one of the most popular business startup centres in the world and why when it comes to finding specialists, technicians and consultants for corporations then it is THE most popular centre in the world for it. Whether your business be economic, financial, media, industrial, agricultural, energy, aerospace - doesn't matter what it is, Britain has it. And whilst Britain has invested her debts wisely, Germany has spent hers making jihad instructional videos :P
I joke, but what I'm saying is Germany has wasted her money on millions of people who won't work to somehow pay for how many tens of millions of old people who cannot work? Whilst the Eurozone has been stagnating UK growth forecasts have been boosted due to our businesses having done better than expected, and we already have all the money from our finance we need to (re)startup some sexy industry in preparation of any future economic collapses. Billions of dollars of debt is small fry for the UK when we have a trillion dollars in foreign investment. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/11839724/Foreign-investors-own-1-trillion-worth-of-British-companies.html) When people buy stocks, they go to New York, they go to Tokyo - they go to London.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

Spoiler: spoilerd because semi-skimmed milk is for ninnies (click to show/hide)

But again, I'm assuming that the global economy doesn't collapse, which is quite a foolish assumption as it tends to do it every now and then. Finance is only as strong as peoples' confidence in it, which saps quite quickly during said collapse. What then? What possible leverage does the UK still have?
I don't see where you got the notion that the UK has no leverage, as you do not post sources. Germany's dug herself a hole deep enough to swallow up the English Channel's precious liquids. Our absence would be felt by Germany to be sure.
http://i.imgur.com/zmHvgLB.png
That's from this. (http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/aid-to-developing-countries-rebounds-in-2013-to-reach-an-all-time-high.htm) It is also from 2013, ignoring that the UK aid budget has actually increased by a billion and a few hundred million. We are punching so far above our weight on the humanitarian scale you wouldn't even believe, it honestly puts the wealthier Germany to shame - and as Antioch points out, with tens of millions of Sterling the British government has been able to provide for millions of war victims (can't even call them refugees because they are so under threat they cannot even flee), even managing to deliver aid through areas of Syria without permission from Assad to areas otherwise ruled by ISIS. And again, that's helping millions with just tens of millions of our multi-billion pound sterling aid budget, with so much of our foreign aid going towards helping billions of people from BRIC to Africa get education, get water, get food - acquire the tools needed to build their own families up and to build their own country up so they don't have to rely on foreign aid anymore. We also possess one of the only two blue water navies and the military needed to ensure this aid can get past insurgents, our military advisers have trained 350,000 local police in Afghanistan alone, our military intelligence is only rivaled by the likes of USA, France, Russia and China, our air force has currently already forced ISIS to halve their pay after their banks and oil fields were blown up by our planes, our instructors have alongside the French also been training government forces in building their own strong militaries to take on their own insurgents like Boko Haram - so what if Germany succeeds in economically destroying its apparent friend and ally the UK?

All Royal Navy patrols in the Mediterranean, Red Sea and Indian Ocean cease, to focus on the Atlantic. That means losing out on the world's foremost mine clearing fleet and losing out on all of our humanitarian patrols. Our troops have to be withdrawn from abroad so you lose access to our military trainers as they just can't be paid or kept safe and whatever regional instability occurs is out of our hands. Our foreign aid budget would have to be drastically cut as a multi-billion pound sterling foreign aid budget cannot be maintained on a collapsed economy. What you end up with is hundreds of millions of people suddenly losing out on the basic necessities of life with pirates and insurgents roaming about freely and no barriers to making the journey northwards to Germany, with only death waiting at home.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2016, 07:14:10 pm

If we don't pay for India's poor, their government likely won't. For starters there's fucking loads of them, whilst India's tax base is quite small and they do not want to harm their ludicrously expanding economy by scaring away their moguls with wealth distribution (which they can't effectively enforce, lacking a powerful justice system relatively free from corruption as the UK). There are also shadows of the caste system looming overhead, so their elite will not help their undercastes whilst foreigners have no issue. India is of the Commonwealth, its citizens are in need whilst its government is still developing and centralizing the country - this is the UK-USA path I was talking about earlier. India is rapidly growing, but it has not yet reached its full potential, it cannot yet fully support its own citizens. If we drop that aid, the risk of instability from central and western asia or southeast asia spreading into India would be the greatest horror in humanitarian catastrophe since the last Chinese civil war or WWII.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

As for the rest, I have mixed feelings. I'd like to support the Commonwealth - we have ties that are worth preserving if we can. They've helped us in the past, and perhaps they'll help us in the future. But being allies in a world war is different than us handing out pocket money. And it's hard to shake the feeling that in the modern age, we, as a country, are laughed at for being a soft touch. We're giving money to China and India, both countries with huge economies. And we're giving money to a myriad of smaller countries who are more a nuisance to us than anything resembling a help.

"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of a sheep." - Trywin Lannister
The Germans in WWI laughed at the British until their rifles opened fire. Not all problems can be solved by sending in the lads though, you can't grasp a butterfly in the grip of an iron fist, and Billy no mates die fast whilst the British still remain. Currently there are tens of millions of children already who have benefited off of British aid, the knock on effects of these kids growing up well and working for their nations will give them more wealth and allow them to provide for their own families and by extension, reach a point where their governments can provide for them. When you see they can't afford water, pencils, paper, soap - having to borrow a little more money to provide it for them keeps our civil servants busy and our humanitarian mission alive. Let the Germans call us racist, let the Russians call us cheeki monkeys, let the Chinese call us the setting sun, let the Americans forget we even exist. When millions of children every year can pick up a book they actually have the literacy to read, when they aren't dying from voiding their bowels or coughing up their lungs - who gives a fuck if we aren't thanked for it, we've undisputedly done the right thing. Plus some of our aid goes not towards making people dependent on us or their governments, but towards giving them the basic tools they need to stand on their feet and hold their government accountable for their actions. No poor nation can get foreign investment coming in in meaningful amounts with a corrupt government, and a corrupt government cannot be purged without either an authoritarian leader like Ataturk or Lee Kuan Yew or a grassroots movement by the people, who with access to the global economy can project their own power and link up with other like minded people.

*Unspoilered, this is the ultimate takehome. Where all other arguments have been that the UK cannot be harmed - this is what happens if it is.*

This is what I wrote before in defence of the UK's large foreign aid budget. I am actually not spouting a popular belief in the UK, as most in the UK think we have spent too much, and not many agree with me on this at all, left-wing or right-wing, progressive or conservative. It is getting increasingly harder to justify increasing our foreign aid budget whilst we cut our own healthcare spending or defence spending for example.
In the event of Germany trying to damage the British economy the first thing that goes is the foreign aid budget as it is the only multibillion pound area of state spending that can be cut without affecting any Brits at all.
Migrants from Pakistan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, China, Syria, Afghanistan and Bangladesh (http://i.imgur.com/KsjQY0F.png) have all been coming to Europe. Pakistan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, India and Bangladesh have been the top five beneficiaries of bilateral British aid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176846). China (£27M), Syria (£1.1B) and Afghanistan (£182M) have all been massive recipients of British aid, with the addition that the UK has trained 350,000 soldiers and police in Afghanistan to help the country stop getting taliban'd.
And that's not even taking into account that whilst we gave aid for the Syrians being kept alive in Jordan and Turkey, the EU failed to deliver the billions of Euros it promised Erdogan. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/turkish-president-threatens-to-send-millions-of-syrian-refugees-to-eu)
All the people Britain helps, all the refugees and countries Britain is developing - they would get left on their own. Their people would have only one place to go: Europe. Britain would still control the channel, whereas Germany has already destroyed all of Europe's barriers and are already lost under the millions of annual migrants. To paraphrase Erdogan:
“We do not have the word ‘idiot’ written on our foreheads." Neither do the German people. The likes of Gunther? Unsurprisingly, it is the mind of the short sighted that brought us into one mess, it will be the minds of the short sighted bringing us potentially to another.

Just by British inaction would the EU be destroyed. We as Europol forumites have been surprised as the humanitarian crisis for Germany scaled from tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands to millions by the year, currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.
This is not even taking into consideration a British withdrawal from Eastern Europe and Germany, letting Russia do as they wish in the East. This is not even taking into consideration what would happen if the UK were to treat Germany the same way her ministers treat us (seriously why haven't you replaced them yet). Britain does not threaten Germany with existential destruction because Britain considers Germany as friends, and through a foreign policy which costs the UK a lot of money Germany is not broken by biblical migration and powerful neighbours. Hostility goes on a two way street, now you can safely bankrupt Greece and repossess her assets but you don't try to take on the UK like that. I don't even need to go into the past in how every time Germany went up in hostility to the UK the UK won, I'm talking today. Some people seem to be mistaken ITT when I argue for a path of Anglo-German cooperation, friendship and business, thinking that means the UK is in a position of weakness or supplication and that Germany has already won Britain. That is why I posted the earlier article about the difference between German Realpolitik and British politik, showing the difference between how Germany acted without caring for public or international opinion whilst Britain did for example. And today we see things like Germany forcing lesser nations to act in line via economic domination and regulation whilst the UK pursues a path of economic cooperation with as many nations as it possibly can, or in how Germany tried to solve its demographic problem with a humanitarian problem and just created two demographic and humanitarian problems whilst the UK took on more successfully by simply being honest and keeping its mission objectives well-defined and achievable.

In short Sheb, it is not a question of who will let us rule ourselves, it is a question of who will stop us. If Germany makes a move to crush the UK's economy and succeeds she will guarantee her own destruction, independent of whether the UK even makes any move to strike Germany financially or otherwise. And when it comes to power, there is no mistaking that Germany traded her power for wealth. The UK did no such thing, and still has her wealth. That is perhaps why I share my country's MP in his confusion as to why Gunther would actually dare to threaten the UK with crippling tariffs. It's like he's trying to make a powerful enemy out of a powerful friend, and this saddens me because I hate to see what German leadership is doing to Germany.

Speaking of, I am worried there is a real possibility that German statesmen and women either do not know or do not care about their economic relationship with the UK and the UK's relationship with refugees, or indeed Germany's ability to cope. Consider that I had to search many government statistics and such to get good numbers, there was not a single news source that posted everything in plain sight. Ha! Germany could actually commit to a trade war. Let's hope ignorance does not prevail, and let's hope my government does not stop their humanitarian aid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:46:14 pm

Oh, and because I stumbled upon this whilst recollating my stats, this one's for you Vilanat:
Is the break-up of the EU good for Israel? (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Is-a-break-up-of-the-EU-good-for-Israel-445274)

Quote

A more integrated EU would not bode well for Israel. There is by now ample evidence to support the prediction that the more power Brussels has, the more it will abuse it against Israel. This may be seen, for example, from the discriminatory labeling of settlement products and the financial support for extremist so-called humanitarian Israeli NGOs – in reality humanitarian racist bodies – which remain silent about the genocidal intentions of Hamas, the largest Palestinian party. The EU also interferes in the in the Israel-controlled Area C in opposition to Israel’s declared wishes, including financing housing for Palestinians there.

Double standards are at the core of anti-Semitism through the centuries. The EU has frequently applied these against Israel. The requirement to label goods from Israeli settlements – something not demanded for areas elsewhere which are similarly in dispute – made the EU bias against Israel so explicit that the Simon Wiesenthal Center gave the EU pride of place in its annual 2015 list of major anti-Semitic slurs.

I've made my opinion clear enough on crazy lefties who sort of surprised everyone by being the first to attack Jews alongside domestic Jihadists, I am trying for peace in my time but I walk the tightrope of multikultur where everyone wants to kill everyone

Also our government banned boycotting Israeli goods (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boycott-israel-ban-bds-illegal-british-government-tories-palestine-procurement-a6879421.html). Coincidence? I think not!
"Labour has criticised the new anti-boycotts policy as an “attack on democracy"
Well that's why our Jews went Tory lol (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4654379,00.html)
Also context on the boycott, the British government is not going to hunt you down and force you to buy Israeli goods, its forcing its own departments into not using state money to enforce their own political agendas. It's a very reasonable request, it's not the job of the NHS or transport or council to have a foreign policy, that's why we have the Foreign Office and Diplomats. God, it's days like these that supporting Israel becomes easy again. And fucks sakes, why do they want to boycott Israel in particular? Saudis are rolling all over from Yemen to Syria, beheading people on their streets and all, but they're cool? Cooouuuh, sure pays to have oil lel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 09:00:41 pm

And for the love of all that is good and just, I forgot to add a single cheeki breeki to any of my posts!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 17, 2016, 09:29:04 pm

A quintuple post has entered your dungeon

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on February 17, 2016, 10:32:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 09:00:41 pm

-holyfucksnip-

А ну, чики-брики и в дамки.

Seriously though;

Spoiler: Gas (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

The EU could make life difficult for British exporters.
This one is much easier for the EU to do, they may not be able to stop Europeans from exporting to the UK but they can at the very least try and discourage British manufacturers from exporting to the EU with extra regulations, tariffs and paper just for the lols. It would help employ more EU bureaucrats too, cos Arkad knows the EU doesn't have enough bureaucrats :D
Just looking at the import/export statistics of the UK's top trading partners is gleeful:
http://i.imgur.com/2LiI0ro.png
Non-German countries offer us more already without any of the hassle, and any nation that sides with Germany's politicians on this can be cut out of the equation quite easily, exception being Ireland where we already have preexisting free trade deals and citizen benefits which predate the European Union's existence. Well, we already have a lot of free trade deals with Europe, given history and all, but again let's not take anything for granted and assume only by the numbers, as as we've accepted international law is sadly flaunted at will by design or accident.
Let us look at the numbers:

Quote

In the last few years we have made a huge difference and built a much stronger bilateral trading relationship between our countries. The figures tell the story - bilateral trade at record levels, our exports to China up 15% in 2013, they have more than doubled in the last 5 years and at £1 billion a month, they are growing faster than France or Germany.
These figures prove once again that Britain is the most open economy in the EU, the most welcoming to Chinese investment including in our nuclear industry and our infrastructure and I’m determined to keep it that way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals

The top exports of the United Kingdom are: Cars ($40.7B), Refined Petroleum ($29.8B), Crude Petroleum ($22.7B), Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B), Gas Turbines ($17.2B)
Its top imports are: Cars ($40.3B), Crude Petroleum ($39.6B), Refined Petroleum ($28.8B), Packaged Medicaments ($18B), Computers ($16.2B)
The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are: United States ($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B), Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)
The top import origins are: Germany ($88.8B), China ($55.2B), the Netherlands ($52.1B), France ($39B), United States ($37.8B)
Most of our cars and engines go to three countries in particular, the USA, Germany and China. Germany may actually be able to profit here by trying to impose restrictions on British engines entering Europe in favour of German car engines, just as long as Germany manages their carbon emissions scandal. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772) Yet the EU cannot stop us from exporting to the rest of the world which offers more profit anyways, resulting in the situation where export to China increased to $18,070,724,927, to India increased to $3,911,180,179, and trade with the rest of
BRIC (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=0efe9346-ff22-4362-84b9-1e2362b9660b) and
MINT (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=4738dca7-b304-4f4f-b00d-5e0f9223bdeb) is healthy. Except with Russia, where trade pretty much halved, but sanctions and all you know. Then there is the issue of crude and refined forms of oil, where Germany can try their best to stop oil flowing (hahaha) but their energy needs will then have to come from somewhere else. And there is only one who can replace the UK for Germany: RUSSYA
http://i.imgur.com/SbNT3H6.jpg
This was the chart I used earlier for 2005, eurostat gave me this:
http://i.imgur.com/UrHLlNj.jpg
And of Norwegian gas, most of it goes to the UK anyways:
http://i.imgur.com/Pj4KQfl.png
Germany can try to cut off UK gas exports, but without any realistic alternative suppliers they would either have to have their entire country's industry incapable of manufacturing anything from petrochemicals, capable of powering themselves, powering their homes or heating them or cooking their food - or they could place their fate in the hands of Vladimir Putin.

GLORY GLORY RUSSYA

Also our gas turbines are global, as are our pharmaceuticals. Though I would be amused to see Germany driving up the price of their own medicine and energy kek

I don't have the cojones to write a gigantic reply to this, but alternatives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_gas_pipeline) exist to Russian gas. This isn't completed yet, to my knowledge, but the European Union isn't stupid. They've mostly been content to let the Nigerian government work at it until now, but if it becomes a strategic interest I can definitely see this moving forward at a slightly less anemic pace. Recent drops in petrol prices have greatly damaged (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/01/iran-south-africa-to-stop-fuel-imports-from-nigeria/) the ecomonies of the nations this pipeline would connect to Europe as well, and the much improved access to the European market this project would provide is a very attractive prospect to them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 01:23:24 am

Quote from: Baffler on February 17, 2016, 10:32:52 pm

А ну, чики-брики и в дамки.

CHEKI BREKI :D

Quote from: Ispil on February 17, 2016, 10:14:49 pm

In case you're wondering where LW got his numbers (http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr).

Only some of them sadly, a lot of them are all over the fucking place, takes more time to find them. But the sources for my numbers are all in the same sentence or just at the end so no worries

Quote from: Baffler on February 17, 2016, 10:32:52 pm

Seriously though;

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

-snop-
-stuff about gas-

I don't have the cojones to write a gigantic reply to this, but alternatives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_gas_pipeline) exist to Russian gas. This isn't completed yet, to my knowledge, but the European Union isn't stupid. They've mostly been content to let the Nigerian government work at it until now, but if it becomes a strategic interest I can definitely see this moving forward at a slightly less anemic pace. Recent drops in petrol prices have greatly damaged (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/01/iran-south-africa-to-stop-fuel-imports-from-nigeria/) the ecomonies of the nations this pipeline would connect to Europe as well, and the much improved access to the European market this project would provide is a very attractive prospect to them.

Spoiler: spolla spolla get dolla (click to show/hide)

Honestly I'd be surprised if the European Union hasn't jumped on this already, and if they're holding back on the funding it's probably just because they're worried about Nigeria spontaneously imploding, their money getting siphoned off into some Swiss bank account for safe keeping, or these guys:
http://i.imgur.com/r4K2QjL.png
From their wikipedia page

Quote

The troops raided the Kula Community in the Rivers State over allegations of widespread militant activities including kidnappings and killings. Niger Delta is an oil-rich region in southern Nigeria inhabited by more than 31 million people. It is composed of nine modern-day Nigerian states and has been marred by widespread violence, kidnappings for ransom and clashes between militant groups and the army since the early 2000s. In 2008, a Joint Task Force (JTF) was deployed to curb militant activity in the area.

Militant groups originated in the early 2000s following the deterioration of the living conditions of people living in oil-rich areas due to the increase of oil-related activities by foreign oil corporations. Tensions between foreign oil corporations in the region and local communities arose as some ethnic groups felt they were being exploited and could not benefit by the presence of oil in the area.

The repeated oil spills that considerably damaged the environment and affected people's health contributed to further deepen the communities' frustration. In 2015, Amnesty International said that Royal Dutch Shell and the Italian multinational oil giant ENI admitted to more than 550 oil spills in the Niger Delta in 2014 alone. In January, Shell agreed to pay $84m (£55m) in compensation to the Bodo community over two oil spills which affected more than 15,000 fishermen in the area. Damages caused by oil spills also forced people to abandon agricultural practices and, as a result, they became poorer.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nigerias-oil-war-who-are-niger-delta-militants-1520580

Oh my word that might also be why the EU hasn't jumped straight on it yet

Still, oil companies can straighten up their acts when they know people are watching, and Nigeria is the second largest gas producer in the world after Russia so it makes sense. Also notable is that we've trained 1,000 Nigerian soldiers and have about a dozen and a half advisers down there helping the Nigerians clean up Boko Haram so once they sorted out the less cooperative and more spontaneous militias can be dealt with too. They've got a point in that they've been dicked over pretty hard, but when you damage your own infrastructure you're just gaining a larger share of making yourself poorer. Notably of the three foreign oil companies expressing interest in building the pipeline, one of them is Gazprom. Seems Russia is not stupid, but Nigeria and Algeria if they know whats best for them have the means to do this on their own, maybe hiring foreign consultants at most. Europe will always benefit from this pipeline but whether they themselves do is in their hands. There is also the issue of passing through Islamist and Tuareg rebel areas in addition to the Niger Delta militias and... Well, that will be an issue. But I think even with them once the pipeline is set up even with security costs it will at least be self-paying.

There is another alternative, one that is not plagued by militiants but has pretty much only not been built yet because of opposition by Iran and Russia, the trans-Caspian gas pipeline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Caspian_Gas_Pipeline), this one is the more famous proposed project because whereas the trans-Saharan pipeline would cost $20B to move 30 billion cubic meters of natural gas through militant held areas from Nigeria to Spain, the trans-Caspian pipeline would cost $20B to move that same volume from Turkmenistan to Turkey (and then right onto the EU). I like the latter more because it would be less prone to being blown up, Russian-Turkey relations aside. That and when there is ecological damage in the Caspian it does not create militiant armies the same way spills in Nigeria are turning fishermen and farmers into warlords. Plus all the trans-Caspian pipeline really needs is Turkmenistan's approval and support since pretty much all of the EU states and Turkey agree this pipeline would be awesome and force Russia to compete more rather than feel safe in gas supplying.

Unrelated to oil and related to UK-EU trade statistics, the Rotterdam effect (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/uktrade/uk-trade/december-2014/sty-trade-rotterdam-effect-.html), in which UK imports from around the world are logged as coming from the EU as they stop off at other ports like Rotterdam and then make their way to Southampton, Liverpool or London e.t.c.
It makes neat statistics like Ireland being a powerful banana mogul when they're really just exporting all the bananas that stop off in Ireland from South and Central America, so keep that in mind in that my statistics may actually be over-representing UK-EU trade, because international commerce is a complex and entangled thing of moving parts that move beyond national boundaries.

I also like the trans-Saharan pipeline idea though, and I think over time the militias will be overcome. Just look at this:

Quote

A British Trade Mission, led by the Director of Africa House, London, Mr Emmanuel Obasi, is seeking
collaboration with the Ministry of Niger Delta Affairs to fast track development in the region.
Obasi made this known during a courtesy visit to the ministry on Tuesday in Abuja.
He said that the mission was satisfied with the anti-corruption fight of the present administration, which encouraged the investors to visit the country.
According to him, the mission is in the country to introduce British companies willing to work with Nigeria.
He added that the ministry had provided the mission with an overview of the direction of the government in unemployment, infrastructure and peace in the region.
Obasi, therefore, pledged the team’s readiness to work in the areas of construction and skills acquisition.
He further said that the mission was interested in raising the level of education in the region which, he noted, had gone down drastically over the years.
According to Obasi, Nigerians in the Diaspora will build schools and improve the quality of teachers and wipe out illiteracy. (http://naija247news.com/2016/02/british-trade-mission-seeks-collaboration-with-niger-delta-affairs-ministry/)
Also I had to check at least rudimentally just to make sure, as when doing business in Nigeria you must always know whether the person you are doing business with exists Emmanuel Obasi exists (http://www.premiumtimesng.com/opinion/4859-green_jobs_in_nigeria_imperatives_for_vision_20-2020_by_emmanuel.html).

This will have a cumulative effect of making stable, self-improving countries with people given the tools to provide for themselves. The UK has it easier because of the Commonwealth, but there is no fight here. Rather, I am fighting this notion of the fighting. The people like Gunther seem to believe that the people of Europe will believe in the Commission if they learn to fear failure without them, whilst I maintain that that is wrong, the people of Greece for example would not care a lick or not if Finland could be doing more if they were in the EU or not than if they themselves are doing well. So the ministers like him make plans to try and cripple UK, or at the least threaten our politicians with notions of it, whilst I would much prefer spending my time thinking of plans that enrich everyone.
The way I see it is this, Germany cannot destroy the UK, but Germany destroying herself is also wasted potential; not just for herself but also for the UK. I am wary of the Germans however having a track record of plunging Europe into turmoil and bankruptcy over their social projects, and am very glad at the least that this time around they are more restrained by Czechki Czechs, Poles and Franks. Just look at the trans-Saharan pipeline, this is a pipeline from which everyone can benefit from, the UK, Spain, Germany, Algeria, Nigeria, even the locals can all benefit from this. It's not a zero-sum game, it's why even in my earlier suggestions on how to deal with Russia I also proposed closer economic cooperation with the Russians. We can build trans-Caspian pipelines and cut the Russian jugular and make many steps to destroy them but then what? It leaves a giant poor highly populated and heavily armed country right on Europe's borderless borders, you'd be a fool to think there is any profit in that. And unless you planned to subsequently genocide the Russians, they'd be coming for you. Nah, what we needed to have done is to build the pipeline anyways, but at the same time help the Russians diversify their economy (and help them get over their phobia of accepting foreign shekels). Make so much wealth for everyone that war becomes obsolete. Consider this, why does Russia oppose the pipeline? They want to keep their gas hold on Europe that is vital for their economy. Why does Europe want it? They want gas that can't be used against them as leverage. There is a very obvious solution here to give everyone what they want: LOADSA SHEKELS

Well, more complex than that. You get the idea, when it comes to gas-pipelines the UK and the EU would both benefit greatly from additional pipelines. Convince people that democracy is pointless and enlightened bureaucracies are the future by making the EU actually enriching, not just culturally enriching! Europe has already had thousands of years of that before the Commission!
But tying this all to the first, first point - the pipelines are not completed and so are still just... PIPE DREAMS


YYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH


In other news:

Quote

"No one," he said on Feb. 9, "should forget how the Soviet forces, which were a mighty, super force during the Cold War and entered Afghanistan, then left Afghanistan in a servile situation. Those who entered Syria today will also leave Syria in a servile way." In other words, Davutoglu was telling the Russians: Get out of Syria; we are coming in. The Russians did not even reply. They just kept on bombing.

Top kek
I hope Obama really stops this madness. Turkish military is not actually that bad, and Saudi's air force is decent, but their ground forces are too reliant on American mercenaries because they don't trust their soldiers to not mutiny, which is a big problem when today's militaries work off of highly-skilled individuals operating heavy equipment that requires a lot of trust to operate and hold the knowledge of its maintenance. I feel like Mohammed bin Salman is going to learn one of those new adages like 'don't invade Russia in winter' or 'if you're the USA never start a land war in Asia' in that you should 'never ever take the sectarian b8.' Again, for those that don't know, Mohammed bin Salman is the youngest defence minister in the world with no experience or education in defence and is pretty much only in that position to give him legitimacy as crown prince.

At this point I don't think anyone has enough shekels and shillings in the world to fix the fuckup it has become.
Crossposting from the religion thread:

Quote from: Graknorke on November 18, 2015, 03:52:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 18, 2015, 03:47:53 pm

I find it odd that they acknowledge the Christian faiths broke each other but then also think warring with the Shia won't end up with the same fate for them ???

Well no that's different because that was infidels fighting each other but this is The One True Faith™ fighting infidels so it's totally different.

Never take sectarian b8
Obama bruh don't fuck this up
bruh

Saudi and Turk military closing ranks on Syria (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/analysis/2016/02/17/Military-moves-Turkey-and-Saudi-Arabia-close-ranks-on-Syria-.html)
BRUH

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.

wut wut WUT

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/oOsxYXH.png)

As you can see, UK's foreign aid has amounted to a whopping ~14% of the total from all DAC countries in recent years, but you're claiming that your country is single-handedly supporting the world?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

Speaking of, I am worried there is a real possibility that German statesmen and women either do not know or do not care about their economic relationship with the UK and the UK's relationship with refugees, or indeed Germany's ability to cope. Consider that I had to search many government statistics and such to get good numbers, there was not a single news source that posted everything in plain sight. Ha! Germany could actually commit to a trade war. Let's hope ignorance does not prevail, and let's hope my government does not stop their humanitarian aid.

lelelel, is this blackmail?

You sure know how to be checkki brecckki even when you're being totes srs: based UK is Atlas and Cuckgermans are going "NO ATLAS, PLS NO SHRUG"?

maximum kek

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 12:36:14 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

You sure know how to be checkki brecckki even when you're being totes srs: based UK is Atlas and Cuckgermans are going "NO ATLAS, PLS NO SHRUG"?
maximum kek

Zero kek

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

As you can see, UK's foreign aid has amounted to a whopping ~14% of the total from all DAC countries in recent years, but you're claiming that your country is single-handedly supporting the world?

No, where did I claim that?

Spoiler: spoilerd because semi-skimmed milk is for ninnies (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

But again, I'm assuming that the global economy doesn't collapse, which is quite a foolish assumption as it tends to do it every now and then. Finance is only as strong as peoples' confidence in it, which saps quite quickly during said collapse. What then? What possible leverage does the UK still have?
I don't see where you got the notion that the UK has no leverage, as you do not post sources. Germany's dug herself a hole deep enough to swallow up the English Channel's precious liquids. Our absence would be felt by Germany to be sure.
http://i.imgur.com/zmHvgLB.png
That's from this. (http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/aid-to-developing-countries-rebounds-in-2013-to-reach-an-all-time-high.htm) It is also from 2013, ignoring that the UK aid budget has actually increased by a billion and a few hundred million. We are punching so far above our weight on the humanitarian scale you wouldn't even believe, it honestly puts the wealthier Germany to shame - and as Antioch points out, with tens of millions of Sterling the British government has been able to provide for millions of war victims (can't even call them refugees because they are so under threat they cannot even flee), even managing to deliver aid through areas of Syria without permission from Assad to areas otherwise ruled by ISIS. And again, that's helping millions with just tens of millions of our multi-billion pound sterling aid budget, with so much of our foreign aid going towards helping billions of people from BRIC to Africa get education, get water, get food - acquire the tools needed to build their own families up and to build their own country up so they don't have to rely on foreign aid anymore. We also possess one of the only two blue water navies and the military needed to ensure this aid can get past insurgents, our military advisers have trained 350,000 local police in Afghanistan alone, our military intelligence is only rivaled by the likes of USA, France, Russia and China, our air force has currently already forced ISIS to halve their pay after their banks and oil fields were blown up by our planes, our instructors have alongside the French also been training government forces in building their own strong militaries to take on their own insurgents like Boko Haram - so what if Germany succeeds in economically destroying its apparent friend and ally the UK?

All Royal Navy patrols in the Mediterranean, Red Sea and Indian Ocean cease, to focus on the Atlantic. That means losing out on the world's foremost mine clearing fleet and losing out on all of our humanitarian patrols. Our troops have to be withdrawn from abroad so you lose access to our military trainers as they just can't be paid or kept safe and whatever regional instability occurs is out of our hands. Our foreign aid budget would have to be drastically cut as a multi-billion pound sterling foreign aid budget cannot be maintained on a collapsed economy. What you end up with is hundreds of millions of people suddenly losing out on the basic necessities of life with pirates and insurgents roaming about freely and no barriers to making the journey northwards to Germany, with only death waiting at home.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2016, 07:14:10 pm

If we don't pay for India's poor, their government likely won't. For starters there's fucking loads of them, whilst India's tax base is quite small and they do not want to harm their ludicrously expanding economy by scaring away their moguls with wealth distribution (which they can't effectively enforce, lacking a powerful justice system relatively free from corruption as the UK). There are also shadows of the caste system looming overhead, so their elite will not help their undercastes whilst foreigners have no issue. India is of the Commonwealth, its citizens are in need whilst its government is still developing and centralizing the country - this is the UK-USA path I was talking about earlier. India is rapidly growing, but it has not yet reached its full potential, it cannot yet fully support its own citizens. If we drop that aid, the risk of instability from central and western asia or southeast asia spreading into India would be the greatest horror in humanitarian catastrophe since the last Chinese civil war or WWII.

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2016, 01:17:40 pm

As for the rest, I have mixed feelings. I'd like to support the Commonwealth - we have ties that are worth preserving if we can. They've helped us in the past, and perhaps they'll help us in the future. But being allies in a world war is different than us handing out pocket money. And it's hard to shake the feeling that in the modern age, we, as a country, are laughed at for being a soft touch. We're giving money to China and India, both countries with huge economies. And we're giving money to a myriad of smaller countries who are more a nuisance to us than anything resembling a help.

"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of a sheep." - Trywin Lannister
The Germans in WWI laughed at the British until their rifles opened fire. Not all problems can be solved by sending in the lads though, you can't grasp a butterfly in the grip of an iron fist, and Billy no mates die fast whilst the British still remain. Currently there are tens of millions of children already who have benefited off of British aid, the knock on effects of these kids growing up well and working for their nations will give them more wealth and allow them to provide for their own families and by extension, reach a point where their governments can provide for them. When you see they can't afford water, pencils, paper, soap - having to borrow a little more money to provide it for them keeps our civil servants busy and our humanitarian mission alive. Let the Germans call us racist, let the Russians call us cheeki monkeys, let the Chinese call us the setting sun, let the Americans forget we even exist. When millions of children every year can pick up a book they actually have the literacy to read, when they aren't dying from voiding their bowels or coughing up their lungs - who gives a fuck if we aren't thanked for it, we've undisputedly done the right thing. Plus some of our aid goes not towards making people dependent on us or their governments, but towards giving them the basic tools they need to stand on their feet and hold their government accountable for their actions. No poor nation can get foreign investment coming in in meaningful amounts with a corrupt government, and a corrupt government cannot be purged without either an authoritarian leader like Ataturk or Lee Kuan Yew or a grassroots movement by the people, who with access to the global economy can project their own power and link up with other like minded people.

This is what I wrote before in defence of the UK's large foreign aid budget. I am actually not spouting a popular belief in the UK, as most in the UK think we have spent too much, and not many agree with me on this at all, left-wing or right-wing, progressive or conservative. It is getting increasingly harder to justify increasing our foreign aid budget whilst we cut our own healthcare spending or defence spending for example.
In the event of Germany trying to damage the British economy the first thing that goes is the foreign aid budget as it is the only multibillion pound area of state spending that can be cut without affecting any Brits at all.
Migrants from Pakistan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, China, Syria, Afghanistan and Bangladesh (http://i.imgur.com/KsjQY0F.png) have all been coming to Europe. Pakistan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, India and Bangladesh have been the top five beneficiaries of bilateral British aid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176846). China (£27M), Syria (£1.1B) and Afghanistan (£182M) have all been massive recipients of British aid, with the addition that the UK has trained 350,000 soldiers and police in Afghanistan to help the country stop getting taliban'd.
And that's not even taking into account that whilst we gave aid for the Syrians being kept alive in Jordan and Turkey, the EU failed to deliver the billions of Euros it promised Erdogan. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/turkish-president-threatens-to-send-millions-of-syrian-refugees-to-eu)
All the people Britain helps, all the refugees and countries Britain is developing - they would get left on their own. Their people would have only one place to go: Europe. Britain would still control the channel, whereas Germany has already destroyed all of Europe's barriers and are already lost under the millions of annual migrants. To paraphrase Erdogan:
“We do not have the word ‘idiot’ written on our foreheads." Neither do the German people. The likes of Gunther? Unsurprisingly, it is the mind of the short sighted that brought us into one mess, it will be the minds of the short sighted bringing us potentially to another.

Just by British inaction would the EU be destroyed. We as Europol forumites have been surprised as the humanitarian crisis for Germany scaled from tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands to millions by the year, currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.
This is not even taking into consideration a British withdrawal from Eastern Europe and Germany, letting Russia do as they wish in the East. This is not even taking into consideration what would happen if the UK were to treat Germany the same way her ministers treat us (seriously why haven't you replaced them yet). Britain does not threaten Germany with existential destruction because Britain considers Germany as friends, and through a foreign policy which costs the UK a lot of money Germany is not broken by biblical migration and powerful neighbours. Hostility goes on a two way street, now you can safely bankrupt Greece and repossess her assets but you don't try to take on the UK like that. I don't even need to go into the past in how every time Germany went up in hostility to the UK the UK won, I'm talking today. Some people seem to be mistaken ITT when I argue for a path of Anglo-German cooperation, friendship and business, thinking that means the UK is in a position of weakness or supplication and that Germany has already won Britain. That is why I posted the earlier article about the difference between German Realpolitik and British politik, showing the difference between how Germany acted without caring for public or international opinion whilst Britain did for example. And today we see things like Germany forcing lesser nations to act in line via economic domination and regulation whilst the UK pursues a path of economic cooperation with as many nations as it possibly can, or in how Germany tried to solve its demographic problem with a humanitarian problem and just created two demographic and humanitarian problems whilst the UK took on more successfully by simply being honest and keeping its mission objectives well-defined and achievable.

No really, where?
I'm fine with banter but lying me gets zero toleran from me. The United Kingdoms is not holding up the world and I never claimed it was, it's helping hundreds of millions of people out of a global population of billions.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 02:15:15 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/we6EIjI.png)

This was the world population around 1900

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/1plsHRL.png)

This is the world population in the current century
The reason why the UK -> US path works is that the great influx of aid provides a cushion for drought/war induced famine and the evolution into foreign investment creates a self-sustaining, powerful and stable country that provides for its own people. They can turn their large population into power, to master their own future.

I've even already planned as much knowing that the UK path of development alone would be insufficient in the long run out of a population of billions, there's not enough foreign aid in the world that can feed, cloth, heal and provide for so many billions. They have to be given the infrastructure and education to build a future for themselves. That whopping 14% is just that, whopping. The second largest in the world where we're giving an Iceland's worth of aid away every year. If it gets cut that's 4 million Syrians no one else is providing for whilst Erdogan is pissed off that the EU failed to give him any money and hundreds of millions of people from the countries providing most of the illegal immigration to Europe already. It is ludicrous to expect that the UK can still afford the second largest aid budget in the world during a trade war with Brussels, as again, in Britain people like me are already having trouble justifying such a large foreign aid budget whilst we cut our own healthcare or defence. The impact to so many countries would be terrible; the cumulative effects of all the education, medicine, food and water going caput - Germany cannot afford nor handle millions, she would not survive hundreds of millions.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

lelelel, is this blackmail?

Do you know what blackmail means? It is the use of threats or embarrassing information to force someone to do something. If you can explain to me how the UK would be able to commit to military operations and the second largest humanitarian mission in the world whilst at a trade war against Brussels then be my guest; this whole thing started off with German ministers trying to blackmail Britain into giving up the fight for independence on threat of crippling tariffs. Do you understand how consequences work? I understand the UK has powerful shekel magic but in the worst possible scenario where Germany finds the mechanisms to implement crippling tariffs, overcome their dependency upon the UK, force China, Turkey, Indonesia, Zambia, Nigeria, South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, the USA, Israel, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan into giving up their ties and trade deals with the UK - we are not an island, and what our shekel magic would fail to conjure would be cut first from our foreign aid budget. Pensions, debt repayment, defence, the national health service - these cannot be cut, so the foreign aid budget is cut. Which as a country like Germany who is losing her tax base to old age and cultural enrichment and no borders, would have no hopes in heaven of coping. We would have no choice but to cut our foreign aid budget, whereas Germany has a very clear choice to just stop employing ministers who try to blackmail my country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 03:21:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 12:36:14 pm

I'm fine with banter but lying me gets zero toleran from me. The United Kingdoms is not holding up the world and I never claimed it was, it's helping hundreds of millions of people out of a global population of billions.

sry m8, I shouldn't have responded to hyperbole with more hyperbole.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 12:36:14 pm

That whopping 14% is just that, whopping. The second largest in the world where we're giving an Iceland's worth of aid away every year. If it gets cut that's 4 million Syrians no one else is providing for whilst Erdogan is pissed off that the EU failed to give him any money and hundreds of millions of people from the countries providing most of the illegal immigration to Europe already.

See what I mean? You are apparently implying – correct me if I'm wrong – that the UK is the only country in the world helping Syrians on the spot. And I say ^{[citation needed]}.

Here's some citations for you:
This thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24c_C206_Y2015_asof___1602181429.pdf) says that the UK's direct humanitarian funding into Syria was exactly 14.9% of the grand total in 2015, whereas this thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24_E16589___1602181429.pdf) for the current year is mysteriously lacking any mention of your country (is this eurocuck propaganda or what?). You could also take a look at the statistics from UNHCR's Syria response program, where the UK's contribution is right behind USA and Kuwait in 2015 (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=9960), and again, strangely absent from the data for 2016. (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=10199)

No-one can deny that the United Kingdoms are shovelling imperial fucktons of money into Syria, but it's kinda hard to argue that you're the only ones doing anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 04:20:45 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 03:21:08 pm

sry m8, I shouldn't have responded to hyperbole with more hyperbole.

You didn't you cheeki monki

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 03:21:08 pm

See what I mean? You are apparently implying – correct me if I'm wrong – that the UK is the only country in the world helping Syrians on the spot.

That implication is wrong

Sorted

I write 6,000 words stating exactly what I mean and explicitly tell people to stop trying to think or assume what I think instead of what I am clearly saying and people do it anyways

bay10/bay12

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 12:36:14 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

As you can see, UK's foreign aid has amounted to a whopping ~14% of the total from all DAC countries in recent years, but you're claiming that your country is single-handedly supporting the world?

No, where did I claim that?

Claiming it as in literally claiming it? no. But seeing as you've decided to play dumb even though he quoted you inches above your response. Even though neither me or you think your dumb & you actually know what he's refering to, I decided to quote it again.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on February 18, 2016, 05:03:42 pm

Probably because being continually argued around is annoying when you're trying to argue in good faith. Much easier to weave in bants to get some satisfaction if people are going to misrepresent your points anyways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2016, 05:29:13 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

Because people have preferred to answer his posts in the past (before LW went full-banter mode) with "you're wrong, but I won't explain precisely why or post any actual sources that prove you wrong, instead I'll refer to basic principles of an ideology I believe in and "common knowledge" related to said ideology". Or find one single "weakest" point in his post and argue against it (usually without sources, as well, just on pure ideological principles), while ignoring the rest of it.

The banter has proven to be extremely successful at shutting down these kinds of responses, which undoubtedly has made it more fun for LW to post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 05:37:34 pm

Also makes it incredibly annoying to read for people who bother to take the time (such as me). You know, I was going to post something longer here, but I think I'll just wait for LWs answer.

Actually I will write something more. When your outspoken (LW is) & have a controversial opinion (in terms of Bay 12 LW does) & are happy to be insulting to people who disagree with your opinions (re read his post if you don't think he slings insults left, right & centre at groups of people with the opposing view point) then you're gotta expect to cop some flak back. Fair is fair after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on February 18, 2016, 05:39:48 pm

This seems to be one of those cases where you don't actually need to be insulting for people to take offense as if you were.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on February 18, 2016, 05:44:23 pm

Mysterious indeed are the ways of the shitposter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 18, 2016, 06:16:05 pm

Loudwhispers barely forever shitposts.

Also I feel bad for him posting, what, 10,000 words of well-researched and sourced debate in the FAPER news thread, because he won't get a proper response, only nitpicking and quibbles. Nobody here is going to be convinced by either side of the debate - the EU issue is absolutely one where everyone has already drawn lines in the sand.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

Claiming it as in literally claiming it? no.

I didn't claim it but people say I did anyways.

fml with a satay.

If I did not say it, I did not say it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

But seeing as you've decided to play dumb even though he quoted you inches above your response. Even though neither me or you think your dumb & you actually know what he's refering to, I decided to quote it again.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

There is no BS here. The hundreds of millions helped by British aid are not the same people helped by others, that's why I only talked about those who would be affected by a withdrawal of British aid. You think I was arguing from a point of withdrawal of all aid? No, that wouldn't result in a migration of hundreds of millions, that would be a billion and more. We are providing for 4 million Syrians (there are about 7-10 million more helped or in need of help by others, I didn't mention them because they are not in fact the UK and I don't see why they would not be supported by their respective countries), and in areas where no other country except the USA, Russia, Iran and Syria can reach, and often we have to deliver this aid in opposition to three of those without their permission. Only the USA has that capacity (actually, they have better, their airforce is without parallel), but their far wider commitments and their need for a larger military has meant they have not been able to commit as much as the wealthiest nation on the planet could have otherwise. Germany could not cope with 1.5 million migrants and the only country that provides education and welfare for more people just so happens to be the wealthiest nation on the planet, so I don't think Germany would be able to cope with even more in the event of the UK losing the money for it (which again, I have to keep stressing this, this is not a popular policy in times of austerity). Turkey is threatening to open their border completely because the EU failed to deliver the billions of euros of promised aid whilst the UK delivered on their aid, I have already typed this out but it seems to have just been ignored in favour of what I "apparently seem to be implying."
4 millions on Europe's doorstep, some of them actually incapable of becoming refugees because they can't even flee, loads more from some of the most popular origins for European illegal immigrants. I gave all the numbers, I even gave numbers from Eurostat themselves, and I stated this all clearly without even bantering. Somewhat disheartening, but I am accustomed to it by now.

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2016, 05:29:13 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

Because people have preferred to answer his posts in the past (before LW went full-banter mode) with "you're wrong, but I won't explain precisely why or post any actual sources that prove you wrong, instead I'll refer to basic principles of an ideology I believe in and "common knowledge" related to said ideology". Or find one single "weakest" point in his post and argue against it (usually without sources, as well, just on pure ideological principles), while ignoring the rest of it.
The banter has proven to be extremely successful at shutting down these kinds of responses, which undoubtedly has made it more fun for LW to post.

QFT, if I'm not having fun with it there's no point. And to be fair if someone's not going to take my points seriously and just post for bants I can respect that and bants too, sometimes it's fruitful, but arguing against points I never even made the one of the few times I'm being serious? Liberties are being had

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 03:21:08 pm

Here's some citations for you:
This thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24c_C206_Y2015_asof___1602181429.pdf) says that the UK's direct humanitarian funding into Syria was exactly 14.9% of the grand total in 2015, whereas this thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24_E16589___1602181429.pdf) for the current year is mysteriously lacking any mention of your country (is this eurocuck propaganda or what?).
You could also take a look at the statistics from UNHCR's Syria response program, where the UK's contribution is right behind USA and Kuwait in 2015 (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=9960), and again, strangely absent from the data for 2016. (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=10199)

Why? Why would you even post sources that explicitly do not mention the UK at all when I have already posted sources detailing how much aid was sent? Getting too cheeki, I gave serious responses to serious responses on oil, but then as soon as I step on someone's ideological turf they lose all courtesy to at least shitpost about what I actually said :/

Oh yeah and the UK's investing another £1.2B to Syria for the next 4 years. (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-invest-an-extra-12-billion-supporting-syria-and-the-region)

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 05:37:34 pm

Also makes it incredibly annoying to read for people who bother to take the time (such as me).

No pity for the person who actually took the time to research and write it all? Oy vey, zut alooooooors

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 05:37:34 pm

Actually I will write something more. When your outspoken (LW is) & have a controversial opinion (in terms of Bay 12 LW does) & are happy to be insulting to people who disagree with your opinions (re read his post if you don't think he slings insults left, right & centre at groups of people with the opposing view point) then you're gotta expect to cop some flak back. Fair is fair after all.

I don't give a shit what you call me, I've been called all things and all insults, there simply is nothing to insult on the internet (do you think insulting LW means anything? LW does not exist) I care when others don't care. Even when I shitpost, each shitpost is handcrafted and meaningful, or at least deliberately meaningless. Someone earlier once asked me why I don't always write serious posts all the time, and why most of my posts are quick and cheap shitposts. And I said something along the lines of every time I wrote a long serious post with all citations and everything clearly explained all I got was a two or three sentence pithy shitpost saying 'you're wrong, here's not why,' whereas I could do the same post with much less effort and much more fun and get the same response. As long as I get to post the numbers, the reports, the facts, end of the day my opinion and how they are presented as serious or shitpost matters little.
Today was an exception because:

Quote from: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 01:56:57 pm

And again, we reach the point where I don't know what's argument, what's shitposting and what's being wrong and I find myself at a loss of how to respond.

Sheb seemed quite confused as to whether I had a coherent point and the shitposting was an obstacle for him, so shitposting did matter. So I excised shitposting and did the most serious and in-depth explanation and collation of all (or at least most) that was my point for this topic, specifically the topic of a German-British trade war that was being threatened by the German EU chairman. I am happy at least for a short while there was a serious discussion on energy and pipelines before it turned into a civil straw war and I returned to shitposting pipeline puns, but nothing of value was lost anyways as I nevertheless return to the natural state of either maintaining serious, civil discussion against points I did not make - or just shitposting. And obviously I'm just going to shitpost if you're not going to take yourself seriously (that's you plural there, not a specific accusation to you).

As a result we return to that blissful void - the shitpost

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 18, 2016, 06:16:05 pm

Also I feel bad for him posting, what, 10,000 words of well-researched and sourced debate in the FAPER news thread, because he won't get a proper response, only nitpicking and quibbles. Nobody here is going to be convinced by either side of the debate - the EU issue is absolutely one where everyone has already drawn lines in the sand.

Yeah we've all drawn lines in the sand but they don't need to be battle lines, and we could at least hear everyone's viewpoints instead of just ur ruong nah ur rong nah ur ronald REMOVE PICKLE remove pickle WE RICH HAVE SHEKEL from LONDINAITSTAN MAGIC
It's basically the same thing just less readable

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:50:26 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 18, 2016, 06:39:18 pm

LW shitposts plenty, just very definitely not in this thread. Much, at least.

This is not even my final form

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 18, 2016, 07:10:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:50:26 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 18, 2016, 06:39:18 pm

LW shitposts plenty, just very definitely not in this thread. Much, at least.

This is not even my final form (https://youtu.be/co2Z4m9i5nY?t=17s)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on February 18, 2016, 08:07:50 pm

I like LW's posts. I'd probably subscribe to his newsletter. It's just far too much to actually respond to, and I agree with most of it anyway. I'm not quibbling when I start talking about gas; I'm picking a manageable, interesting piece that I actually have the time and background knowledge to address.

Anywho in a suspiciously timely coincidence, the European Commission released an announcement (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-307_en.htm) on a shift in energy policy. It seems to hinge on renewables and increased imports of liquid natural gas. Most interesting is what they're calling the solidarity principle, (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-308_en.htm) where member states are responsible for assisting their (member) neighbors in case of shortage. This seems to imply movement toward a more unified utility grid, something I know they've pushed for in the past. I'm still looking through it, but despite never directly mentioning Russia the phrases "supply security" and "political tensions along our borders" appear a number of times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on February 18, 2016, 10:14:04 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:50:26 pm

snip

Remove Pickle? The HMS Pickle was a fine ship, damn you!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

All right, Imma bite the bait and respond to every point in an LW post, just to prove that I can into tolerancy on the nets of inter.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

Claiming it as in literally claiming it? no.

I didn't claim it but people say I did anyways.

What you say is ultimately what people understand, and what people understand is ultimately up to you. You have every reason to complain if your audience "misunderstands" you on purpose, but genuine misunderstandings have to be clarified in a cooperative manner. 

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

fml with a satay.

shish baby, it’s awwright

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

If I did not say it, I did not say it.

But if you’re in the habit of saying things that you don’t mean, or things that you don’t consider exactly true, then it’s perfectly understandable if your audience confuses things that you said with things you didn’t say.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

But seeing as you've decided to play dumb even though he quoted you inches above your response. Even though neither me or you think your dumb & you actually know what he's refering to, I decided to quote it again.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 09:05:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:45:08 pm

currently the UK are all that's keeping millions on Europe's doorstep from either dying or desperately trying to make it to Germany, and hundreds of millions all across the world including in some of the most popular origins for European illegal migrants, Pakistan just being one example. No British aid = no home future = off to Germany in numbers that would be culturally enriching on a scale never before seen.

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

There is no BS here. The hundreds of millions helped by British aid are not the same people helped by others, that's why I only talked about those who would be affected by a withdrawal of British aid.

This is a claim I do not understand. Is there absolutely no overlap between people who are helped by British aid and people who are helped by others? Say, if a certain war victim receives a field ration donated by the British government, are they thenceforth not allowed to receive aid from other governments? Who keeps track of this? Why is this necessary? I genuinely do not believe that this is how it works.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

You think I was arguing from a point of withdrawal of all aid? No, that wouldn't result in a migration of hundreds of millions, that would be a billion and more.

I agree with the numbers, but I don’t think that was what wobbly thought you were saying.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

We are providing for 4 million Syrians (there are about 7-10 million more helped or in need of help by others, I didn't mention them because they are not in fact the UK and I don't see why they would not be supported by their respective countries)...

I’m sorry, but I cannot find your sources for these figures, nor can I follow the logic of your argument. According to the UNHCR site, (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php) there are exactly 4,718,230 registered Syrian refugees as of now, and given that the UK’s contribution to the UNHCR program is approximately 9% according to this thing (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=10154), the maximum number of Syrian refugees that could in theory be helped exclusively by the UK is 424,640. But since you’re referring to "7–10 million" Syrians(?) who are in need of help, I’m assuming that you’re talking about the total number of displaced people (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/03/left-syria-150317133753354.html) – 10.9 million, to be more precise. Now, given that the UK’s share of the total humanitarian aid into Syria (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24c_C206_Y2015_asof___1602181429.pdf) is roughly 15%, and 15% of 10.9 million is 1.635 million, I cannot quite grasp how one could claim that the UK is the exclusive provider for 4 million Syrians. 

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

...and in areas where no other country except the USA, Russia, Iran and Syria can reach, and often we have to deliver this aid in opposition to three of those without their permission. Only the USA has that capacity (actually, they have better, their airforce is without parallel), but their far wider commitments and their need for a larger military has meant they have not been able to commit as much as the wealthiest nation on the planet could have otherwise.

Ah, the Green Berets are running guerrilla-aid into a war zone. That is wonderful. (I’m dead serious, that really is wonderful, if true.)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Germany could not cope with 1.5 million migrants and the only country that provides education and welfare for more people just so happens to be the wealthiest nation on the planet, so I don't think Germany would be able to cope with even more in the event of the UK losing the money for it (which again, I have to keep stressing this, this is not a popular policy in times of austerity).

Yes, that goes without saying. What are you saying?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Turkey is threatening to open their border completely because the EU failed to deliver the billions of euros of promised aid whilst the UK delivered on their aid, I have already typed this out but it seems to have just been ignored in favour of what I "apparently seem to be implying."

Why do you assume that I – or anyone else in this thread – have ignored this fact? We read the news, and we know that the EU is in Turkish bath hot water with Turkey right now. This seems to have nothing to do with the above claim that the UK is the sole provider for 4 million Syrians.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

4 millions on Europe's doorstep, some of them actually incapable of becoming refugees because they can't even flee, loads more from some of the most popular origins for European illegal immigrants.

Four million, ten million, thousand million... does it matter if the UK cannot single-handedly stop them in any case?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

I gave all the numbers, I even gave numbers from Eurostat themselves, and I stated this all clearly without even bantering. Somewhat disheartening, but I am accustomed to it by now.

What numbers? Do you mean these (http://imgur.com/KsjQY0F) things? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176846) Sorry, but I cannot see any connection between the numbers and your argument.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2016, 05:29:13 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

P.S. You raise so many interesting points. You back your opinion with your sources. Why the need or desire for BS games?

Because people have preferred to answer his posts in the past (before LW went full-banter mode) with "you're wrong, but I won't explain precisely why or post any actual sources that prove you wrong, instead I'll refer to basic principles of an ideology I believe in and "common knowledge" related to said ideology". Or find one single "weakest" point in his post and argue against it (usually without sources, as well, just on pure ideological principles), while ignoring the rest of it.
The banter has proven to be extremely successful at shutting down these kinds of responses, which undoubtedly has made it more fun for LW to post.

QFT, if I'm not having fun with it there's no point. And to be fair if someone's not going to take my points seriously and just post for bants I can respect that and bants too, sometimes it's fruitful, but arguing against points I never even made the one of the few times I'm being serious? Liberties are being had

Indeed, I cannot take your points seriously if I think you’re not being serious. If you season your lovingly-crafted posts with a rich masala of hyperbole and dank memes, I will regard them as bants. There is nothing wrong with this per se because bants are healthy and good, but it's a very inefficient strategy for communicating Important Information, you know. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to de-bantify your posts is to clean up the rhetoric and straighten out the arguments – but as I said, I do think that bants are fine too, because I rather like bants.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 18, 2016, 03:21:08 pm

Here's some citations for you:
This thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24c_C206_Y2015_asof___1602181429.pdf) says that the UK's direct humanitarian funding into Syria was exactly 14.9% of the grand total in 2015, whereas this thing (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24_E16589___1602181429.pdf) for the current year is mysteriously lacking any mention of your country (is this eurocuck propaganda or what?).
You could also take a look at the statistics from UNHCR's Syria response program, where the UK's contribution is right behind USA and Kuwait in 2015 (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=9960), and again, strangely absent from the data for 2016. (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=10199)

Why? Why would you even post sources that explicitly do not mention the UK at all when I have already posted sources detailing how much aid was sent?

I’ve looked through all your recent posts, but I cannot find these detailed sources you’re talking about. I’m dreadfully sorry if I’ve somehow missed them. [ m(_ _)m in advance ]

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Getting too cheeki, I gave serious responses to serious responses on oil, but then as soon as I step on someone's ideological turf they lose all courtesy to at least shitpost about what I actually said :/

What you said made no sense to me, therefore I commented on what I thought you had said, not on what you thought you had said. I was reacting to the form of your arguments rather than their content, although the little that I could make out of the underlying message did seem like baseless bloviation of the "uk greattst countrey" type. Btw, my ideological turf is not hallowed ground by any means – just take your shoes off and disinfect your feet before you tread.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Oh yeah and the UK's investing another £1.2B to Syria for the next 4 years. (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-invest-an-extra-12-billion-supporting-syria-and-the-region)

Great! Will that be enough to provide for 4 million Syrians in 2020?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 05:37:34 pm

Also makes it incredibly annoying to read for people who bother to take the time (such as me).

No pity for the person who actually took the time to research and write it all? Oy vey, zut alooooooors

Quote from: wobbly on February 18, 2016, 05:37:34 pm

Actually I will write something more. When your outspoken (LW is) & have a controversial opinion (in terms of Bay 12 LW does) & are happy to be insulting to people who disagree with your opinions (re read his post if you don't think he slings insults left, right & centre at groups of people with the opposing view point) then you're gotta expect to cop some flak back. Fair is fair after all.

I don't give a shit what you call me, I've been called all things and all insults, there simply is nothing to insult on the internet (do you think insulting LW means anything? LW does not exist)

You don't seem like someone who can be easily insulted, so I've never tried to deliberately insult you. Why would I want to insult you, anyway? You're a really cool guy, although your posts are shit.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

I care when others don't care. Even when I shitpost, each shitpost is handcrafted and meaningful, or at least deliberately meaningless. Someone earlier once asked me why I don't always write serious posts all the time, and why most of my posts are quick and cheap shitposts. And I said something along the lines of every time I wrote a long serious post with all citations and everything clearly explained all I got was a two or three sentence pithy shitpost saying 'you're wrong, here's not why,' whereas I could do the same post with much less effort and much more fun and get the same response. As long as I get to post the numbers, the reports, the facts, end of the day my opinion and how they are presented as serious or shitpost matters little.

You care so much about tired /pol/ memes like White Genocide^TM that you feel compelled to feed them to people who you know for a fact aren't stupid enough to swallow them? I know for a fact that you aren't stupid enough to swallow that shizzle, which is why I always assume that you're not being serious whenever you post like a teenage /pol/lack. And what comes to getting ignored by your "audience," there's more than one type of that experience: If you make a carefully citationated and "neutral" post and people still ignore you, that's likely because they agree with your points and have nothing to add. If you make a carefully citationated post with ebin trole master b8 m8, people will ignore you because they think you had absolutely nothing to say in the first place. There's no guaranteed formula of success for digital communication – you cannot treat forums and other internet media as sure-fire dopamine dispensers. You're always alone, throwing your lovingly-crafted shit into the abyss, and you're not guaranteed to even hear a *ploonk*.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Today was an exception because:

Quote from: Sheb on February 16, 2016, 01:56:57 pm

And again, we reach the point where I don't know what's argument, what's shitposting and what's being wrong and I find myself at a loss of how to respond.

Sheb seemed quite confused as to whether I had a coherent point and the shitposting was an obstacle for him, so shitposting did matter. So I excised shitposting and did the most serious and in-depth explanation and collation of all (or at least most) that was my point for this topic, specifically the topic of a German-British trade war that was being threatened by the German EU chairman. I am happy at least for a short while there was a serious discussion on energy and pipelines before it turned into a civil straw war and I returned to shitposting pipeline puns, but nothing of value was lost anyways as I nevertheless return to the natural state of either maintaining serious, civil discussion against points I did not make - or just shitposting.

I'm not Sheb, so I can't tell whether your attempt to communicate succeeded or not, but it's very likely that you convinced him to the extent that he saw fit to shut up. The reason I don't think this debate matters much is because I got the impression that the damp German was bluffing like Bluffy the Bluffire Player.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

And obviously I'm just going to shitpost if you're not going to take yourself seriously (that's you plural there, not a specific accusation to you).

That works both ways, you know.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

As a result we return to that blissful void - the shitpost

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 18, 2016, 06:16:05 pm

Also I feel bad for him posting, what, 10,000 words of well-researched and sourced debate in the FAPER news thread, because he won't get a proper response, only nitpicking and quibbles. Nobody here is going to be convinced by either side of the debate - the EU issue is absolutely one where everyone has already drawn lines in the sand.

Yeah we've all drawn lines in the sand but they don't need to be battle lines, and we could at least hear everyone's viewpoints instead of just ur ruong nah ur rong nah ur ronald REMOVE PICKLE remove pickle WE RICH HAVE SHEKEL from LONDINAITSTAN MAGIC
It's basically the same thing just less readable

lw u pleb ur meming like jeb lay off da /pol/-aid & lrn 2 tok liek a normie u gotta haev stile if u wana be a clasy homie

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 19, 2016, 07:47:55 am

Just read the last post, and to be clear, a lot of the time, when I don't react it is indeed because I do not disagree, but in this case I just had a couple of very busy day, so I haven't read your pentapost answer of doom yet LW. I do plan on reading it and responding this week-end though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 19, 2016, 05:48:38 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

All right, Imma bite the bait and respond to every point in an LW post, just to prove that I can into tolerancy on the nets of inter.

You responded to the exasperated followup that had no sources and did not follow the 6k word's tight coherent points

You responded to the wrong post to prove you can into tolerancy on the nets of inter

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

What you say is ultimately what people understand, and what people understand is ultimately up to you. You have every reason to complain if your audience "misunderstands" you on purpose, but genuine misunderstandings have to be clarified in a cooperative manner.

I don't understand this post. If you're saying when I type out a post with clear citations and points and others don't understand whilst others completely do, nah it's not my fault, git gud
Otherwise yeah in all shitposting it's my fault

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

But if you’re in the habit of saying things that you don’t mean, or things that you don’t consider exactly true, then it’s perfectly understandable if your audience confuses things that you said with things you didn’t say.

If I start off my post by saying don't assume or think what I say when I say what I say, I say I will be very cross with those of my audience saying such nonsense I said not to say. I SAY!

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

This is a claim I do not understand. Is there absolutely no overlap between people who are helped by British aid and people who are helped by others? Say, if a certain war victim receives a field ration donated by the British government, are they thenceforth not allowed to receive aid from other governments? Who keeps track of this? Why is this necessary? I genuinely do not believe that this is how it works.

Because that's not how it works. There are a lot of needy people in the world in countries no one except the Americans or British really care about, as even their own governments cannot help them and no one else has common history or economic interests there. In the case of Syria, it's again the case of there being lots of people, with the EU not delivering on the promised aid, and UK-USA aid convoys being the only convoys well armed enough to travel through Syria without permission from militias, militants or government forces.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

I agree with the numbers, but I don’t think that was what wobbly thought you were saying.

Again with the thinking of what people say instead of what they say they said

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

I’m sorry, but I cannot find your sources for these figures, nor can I follow the logic of your argument.

Literally in my posts

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

According to the UNHCR site, (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php) there are exactly 4,718,230 registered Syrian refugees as of now, and given that the UK’s contribution to the UNHCR program is approximately 9% according to this thing (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=10154), the maximum number of Syrian refugees that could in theory be helped exclusively by the UK is 424,640. But since you’re referring to "7–10 million" Syrians(?) who are in need of help, I’m assuming that you’re talking about the total number of displaced people (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/03/left-syria-150317133753354.html) – 10.9 million, to be more precise. Now, given that the UK’s share of the total humanitarian aid into Syria (https://fts.unocha.org/reports/daily/ocha_R24c_C206_Y2015_asof___1602181429.pdf) is roughly 15%, and 15% of 10.9 million is 1.635 million, I cannot quite grasp how one could claim that the UK is the exclusive provider for 4 million Syrians.

You are using the statistics for the contribution to the UNHCR and the actual transfer of money (not including aid), not the aid budgets to Syria or Syrians in Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt or the funding of aid

Are you deliberately doing this to wind me up or did you do this by accident, because I'm getting the distinct feeling you've ignored every single one of my sources and this wounds me :(

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 18, 2016, 06:25:09 pm

Why? Why would you even post sources that explicitly do not mention the UK at all when I have already posted sources detailing how much aid was sent?

It's like you're deliberately trying to choose the most inaccurate and unrepresentative stats on purpose
I've already covered the whole thing about registered refugees + unregistered + those who cannot flee

My jimmies are free

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

Ah, the Green Berets are running guerrilla-aid into a war zone. That is wonderful. (I’m dead serious, that really is wonderful, if true.)

Less sexy I'm afraid, just regular convoys

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

Yes, that goes without saying. What are you saying?

I say what meant to say

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

Why do you assume that I – or anyone else in this thread – have ignored this fact? We read the news, and we know that the EU is in Turkish bath hot water with Turkey right now. This seems to have nothing to do with the above claim that the UK is the sole provider for 4 million Syrians.

I take no knowledge for granted and I take no news for granted and it is relevant to my point when Turkey is saying she will open the floodgates of heaven. How the hell is it not relevant that the EU has failed to deliver on Syrian aid to Turkey whilst the UK has when talking about the UK providing for Syrians?

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

Four million, ten million, thousand million... does it matter if the UK cannot single-handedly stop them in any case?

Do you really need to ask this? Like... Ok... It matters if you live in any of the areas being developed by UK aid or if you are accepting it or if your country is on the path for four million, ten million, thousand million refugees. I just think you're trolling me now

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

What numbers? Do you mean these (http://imgur.com/KsjQY0F) things? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176846) Sorry, but I cannot see any connection between the numbers and your argument.

I'm being trolled

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

Indeed, I cannot take your points seriously if I think you’re not being serious. If you season your lovingly-crafted posts with a rich masala of hyperbole and dank memes, I will regard them as bants. There is nothing wrong with this per se because bants are healthy and good, but it's a very inefficient strategy for communicating Important Information, you know. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to de-bantify your posts is to clean up the rhetoric and straighten out the arguments – but as I said, I do think that bants are fine too, because I rather like bants.

Quote

Because people have preferred to answer his posts in the past (before LW went full-banter mode) with "you're wrong, but I won't explain precisely why or post any actual sources that prove you wrong, instead I'll refer to basic principles of an ideology I believe in and "common knowledge" related to said ideology". Or find one single "weakest" point in his post and argue against it (usually without sources, as well, just on pure ideological principles), while ignoring the rest of it.

Every time. I'm done like a naan in the oven at 280*C preheat, you're taking me for an Erdogan after too many schnapps.

I can't believe I even wasted my time on b8

Quote from: Baffler on February 18, 2016, 08:07:50 pm

I like LW's posts. I'd probably subscribe to his newsletter. It's just far too much to actually respond to, and I agree with most of it anyway. I'm not quibbling when I start talking about gas; I'm picking a manageable, interesting piece that I actually have the time and background knowledge to address.

None of that criticism was directed at you, that oil discussion thereafter was a glimpse of what could have been, the bright hopeful future

This is the hell that is :P

Quote from: Sheb on February 19, 2016, 07:47:55 am

Just read the last post, and to be clear, a lot of the time, when I don't react it is indeed because I do not disagree, but in this case I just had a couple of very busy day, so I haven't read your pentapost answer of doom yet LW. I do plan on reading it and responding this week-end though.

Oh of course, honestly I do the same where if I agree on something I usually just leave it out in a reply or don't reply on it at all, there's a difference between talking about one point in particular out of interest and practicality or just trying to win points with nazi pedantics



In other news:

Quote

UK has 'opt out of ever-closer union', leaked draft suggests

I don't know what the fuck that means but it sounds good

Quote

Cameron says: "We have permanently carved Britain out of [ever-closer union].

"Britain will never be part of a European super state," he says.

He thanked the leaders of the other EU states for the their "patience and goodwill and their assistance".

[ever-closer union]. That was added by the BBC. Why didn't Cameron say it fully himself? What is he up to now, this is incredibly surprising as the EU never once backed down on any point yet today Cameron is saying he's gotten pretty much everything he asked for. I smell a trap, I await the morrow to see what occurs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35616768
SNEAKI BREEKI, the deal only lasts for a few years, enough years to pass the referendum D:<
What definition of permanent is he using?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:07:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 19, 2016, 05:48:38 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:27:12 am

What numbers? Do you mean these (http://imgur.com/KsjQY0F) things? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34176846) Sorry, but I cannot see any connection between the numbers and your argument.

I'm being trolled

Why? Why all this unbidden hostility? ; ~ ;

I am deeply hurt, sir.

All I wanted was to demolish the walls of dark misunderstanding between us and build bridges of clear communication and reliable sources, but alas, that was not to be. Now I shall never know whence came your 4 million Syrians – you have doomed me to an eternity in the wasteland of ignorance and incomprehension, far away from the reassuring light of citations.

Sir, I am afraid our friendship will never recover from this dire blow. :'c

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on February 19, 2016, 07:11:18 pm

Do we even have current statistics on migrant numbers? That last set of statistics that I saw that actually bothered to break them down by place of origin was from 2014 and early 2015.

Title: You know the truth as well as I do...
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2016, 07:22:57 pm

...actually on second thoughts I'm too irked to be in the mood for puns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2016, 07:38:49 pm

I hope you vote to leave too. If there was any doubt as to whether the EU was a joke before this fiasco, there is even less now. If you're of the "cool kids" northern Europe club, you get all kinds of prerrogatives, and the factic powers in the EU will scramble to grant even more at the slightest tantrum. If you're a South-European, however, you get shat upon without stop, and are supposed to ask for seconds.

About time this farce of a "union" is called out for what it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 19, 2016, 08:17:39 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2016, 07:38:49 pm

I hope you vote to leave too. If there was any doubt as to whether the EU was a joke before this fiasco, there is even less now. If you're of the "cool kids" northern Europe club, you get all kinds of prerrogatives, and the factic powers in the EU will scramble to grant even more at the slightest tantrum. If you're a South-European, however, you get shat upon without stop, and are supposed to ask for seconds.

About time this farce of a "union" is called out for what it is.

Yes, prerogatives such as being net payers towards the common EU budget. And the balance nose dives yearly. What do we get? A currency that makes foreign trade more difficult/less worth than it should be, East-European people taking up the low paid jobs and usually harmless but sometimes unprofessional, silly, plain harmful directives.

edit: I would love the EU to not fail but there need to be some seriously huge structural reforms within EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 19, 2016, 09:39:49 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:07:28 pm

Why? Why all this unbidden hostility? ; ~ ;
I am deeply hurt, sir.

I can't tell if you're serious or not because tildes and all that, but if you are hurt, sorry there is no hostility between us. It is the friendly yurop thread!

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 19, 2016, 07:07:28 pm

All I wanted was to demolish the walls of dark misunderstanding between us and build bridges of clear communication and reliable sources, but alas, that was not to be. Now I shall never know whence came your 4 million Syrians – you have doomed me to an eternity in the wasteland of ignorance and incomprehension, far away from the reassuring light of citations.

Look in my posts, the ones just above the one you replied to if you're using 50ppp, the ones that actually had my arguments and not just shitposts. The reason why I think you're taking the mick is because you chose to respond to the most worthless of my posts there, stepping aside the four or five I put a great deal of thought to, with all backed by their sources - and you even then still resorted to using UNHCR contribution funds or real money donations as representative of the total aid budget I had already posted. If that's your attempt at clear communication and reliable sources you're either dishonest or doing poorly because you're muddying waters I've just spend a day cleaning :P
I don't know if you were trying to be deliberately misrepresentative or just googled the first stats you could use to diminish the appearance of British aid, but I don't stoop to shitposting of such a dishonest calibre. If you strip away all the irony and sarcasm and what you're left with is not a hilarious joke but only a lie, you can't say you wanted a serious discussion, you can't say you wanted banter, what then? All that's left are fights, frustration or dilution. Even now everything I said about the relationship between exports, imports, tariffs, jurisdictions, energy dependence, geopolitics, law, contributions, history - fuck it lets get ebiennnnn. I don't fling shit when people ask of me seriousness, and when I shitpost every shitpost is thoughtful - I don't joke around with cultural enrichment, if you put no thought to your shitposts and just regurgitate mindlessly you are 9gag. If you see hostility, don't - it's just seriousness, where everything is said with careful consideration, and full stops make everything look threatening anyways. That is why one should always beware using proper grammar on the internet.
It gets serious.

Quote from: Erkki on February 19, 2016, 08:17:39 pm

Yes, prerogatives such as being net payers towards the common EU budget. And the balance nose dives yearly. What do we get? A currency that makes foreign trade more difficult/less worth than it should be, East-European people taking up the low paid jobs and usually harmless but sometimes unprofessional, silly, plain harmful directives.

So it offers nothing to anyone and we should keep it because? I'm not being rhetorical, I don't get it and I haven't actually been told any positive arguments (or at least ones founded in reality, not apocalyptic notions of restricting Merkel from going on the warpath).

Quote from: Erkki on February 19, 2016, 08:17:39 pm

edit: I would love the EU to not fail but there need to be some seriously huge structural reforms within EU.

What does that mean? Every time reform is brought up they are only ever reforms which centralize more power to the Commission. I have not yet heard alternatives, and it's been made quite clear that the fundamental principles of the EU can never be compromised making reform only ever possible in moving towards even more centralization or independence.

Quote from: Covenant on February 19, 2016, 07:24:31 pm

Barely anyone posts sources for their arguments (and I'm starting to wonder whether Martin's got some sort of sponsorship deal going on with Volkskrant.nl).

mein seides
Also in sad news the Independent newspaper is closing down. (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/11/independent-owner-considering-closing-national-print-titles)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

'With Lebedev back in the country confirmation came the following morning that he intended to close the papers and "convert the digital foundation we've built into a sustainable, profitable future" by "enhancing" independent.co.uk, the fiefdom spun off into a separately owned company some years ago by co-owner Justin Byam Shaw. An estimated 100 hacks will be made redundant, while those who keep their jobs will come under the control of digital editor Christian Broughton, whose brusque style has long gone unchallenged by the company despite many staff complaints.

Broughton's clickbait-heavy diet of repurposed Reddit threads and YouTube Videos has proved such as success the International Business Times recently tried (but failed) to poach him for its own new sod-the-quality-look-at-the-numbers offering. Levedev's praise last week for the "thriving" website and its "fast-growing global footprint" suggest little is likely to change. Broughton has been looking chipper around the office, knowing he's in line for a big promotion, while print hacks weigh up whether to stay or go. There are already mutterings that staff will refuse to transfer to the website if it means working under the hated Broughton. "Literally the only person in the whole building who is a cunt - Broughton - is now in charge," noted one dispirited hack.
Sauce - The Private Eye

The Independent is one of those newspapers that managed to get mainstream, avoid loyalty to anyone and maintain very good quality. Too good to last.

Quote from: Covenant on February 19, 2016, 07:24:31 pm

Also Cameron getting 'everything he asked for' isn't much of a comfort when even EU leaders were saying they were surprised at how little he was asking for. God, I hope we vote to leave. And sod Emma Thompson!

EDIT: Apparently (I can't speak for its legitimacy, so huge pinch of salt) this is draft text (http://imgur.com/uduPhGo) of the 'Emergency brake' portion of the UK's deal. Seems pretty underwhelming. A guarantee to 'discuss these issues'... if that's legitimate, Cameron's more pathetic than I expected. He must have left his balls behind in that pig.

Is that all? All we got? A discussion? God dammit Cameron do your fucking job before Osborne beheads you
Also lol at their surprise, if that's genuine (and judging by their initial refusal to budge) I legitimately think they didn't realize whose side Cameron was on :P

Also let's be fair, we still have no confirmation on whether Cameron is haramsexual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggate
Ha, they called it piggate. Nixon you devil, if only you'd known what you'd unleashed. I also love that bit about how what was said cannot be illegal under libel because the legislators had not envisaged someone accusing someone else of sleeping with pork. Also I've just helped a permanent resident (non-subject of the UK who can stay forever essentially) come back home from abroad and when they were going through Heathrow immigration controls (separate ones for non-subjects) they were struck by how many people were getting turned back, more than they'd ever seen before in all their decades of coming in and out of Britain. So that got me thinking, if things are heavy on our end, how bad are they for you now?

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on February 19, 2016, 07:11:18 pm

Do we even have current statistics on migrant numbers? That last set of statistics that I saw that actually bothered to break them down by place of origin was from 2014 and early 2015.

Last I checked the numbers for 2015, the reasonable estimate was between 1.1 million for all of Europe on the low end by EU stats and 1.5 million for all Europe by humanitarian counts, Frontex has now put the number to over 1.8 million. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911) And they're an EU organization so we should probably add a couple of zeros to the end :P
Wew lads, immigration is happening so powerfully even immigration from the past is increasing (or Eurocucks under-reported, personally I think time traveling immigrants culturally enriching me beyond the constraints of time is more likely. How do you think they discovered gravity waves? More waves of transdimensional enrichment (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440)).
More refugees arrived in Europe by boat during the first six weeks of 2016 than during the first four months of last year, the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR) announced on Friday.
There were more than 80,000 refugees and migrants who arrived in Europe by boat during the first six weeks of 2016, according to the agency. (http://time.com/4220455/migrant-crisis-refugees-arrival-europe-2016/)
I wonder how much of that is just natural escalation or if you can see the point where Erdogan said fuck it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2016, 06:06:01 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2016, 07:38:49 pm

I hope you vote to leave too. If there was any doubt as to whether the EU was a joke before this fiasco, there is even less now. If you're of the "cool kids" northern Europe club, you get all kinds of prerrogatives, and the factic powers in the EU will scramble to grant even more at the slightest tantrum. If you're a South-European, however, you get shat upon without stop, and are supposed to ask for seconds.

About time this farce of a "union" is called out for what it is.

What "northern" Europe countries would be in that club, are you saying?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 08:19:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 19, 2016, 09:39:49 pm

So it offers nothing to anyone and we should keep it because? I'm not being rhetorical, I don't get it and I haven't actually been told any positive arguments (or at least ones founded in reality, not apocalyptic notions of restricting Merkel from going on the warpath).

Theres a lot of good such us being able to participate in the decision making of the area. Free movement of capital and working force helps small companies and individual peoples careers.

Quote

What does that mean? Every time reform is brought up they are only ever reforms which centralize more power to the Commission. I have not yet heard alternatives, and it's been made quite clear that the fundamental principles of the EU can never be compromised making reform only ever possible in moving towards even more centralization or independence.

Yes, those are the reforms brought up by EU technocrats themselves, not its citizens. Too many people have power who have not been voted to their positions.

30 odd nations should be all stronger together.

EU needs less men such as this gentleman over here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 08:28:01 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2016, 06:06:01 am

What "northern" Europe countries would be in that club, are you saying?

Why, anyone who doesn't belong to the "PIGS" (lovely acronym, isn't it?). As recent events demonstrate.   

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 20, 2016, 09:55:19 am

Quote from: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 08:19:51 am

Theres a lot of good such us being able to participate in the decision making of the area. Free movement of capital and working force helps small companies and individual peoples careers.

Where are any of us able to participate in the decision making of the area? We don't even get to vote for representatives who have any power on the Commission. Free movement of capital as well I don't grasp (but that's most likely just a result of me being a filthy Londoner where ludicrous volumes of foreign money flow in and out every day), and the whole notion of the Euro allowing poorer nations to borrow riskier loans backed by Germany to increase public spending and develop their own country fails when those countries end up taking risky loans, Germany doesn't front the debt and then also forces public spending cuts so it's all cost for no benefit. The only benefit I can see to the EU that would truly benefit all European nations and not just exploit most for the benefit of few would be to fulfill its original purpose in being a free trade bloc and work towards creating a common energy grid, but at the price of political and economic subjugation it's just not worth it when you can easily have both of those without the Commission or destroying one's own nation state.

Quote from: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 08:19:51 am

Yes, those are the reforms brought up by EU technocrats themselves, not its citizens. Too many people have power who have not been voted to their positions.

Then why keep it? We all already have our own national democracies, why give them away? What is being offered in return? Sorry for pressing you for answers but I just haven't heard anything from anyone beyond vague platitudes.

Quote from: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 08:19:51 am

30 odd nations should be all stronger together.

A free trade union and mutual defence would have done more good than trying to destroy 30 odd nations to build 1 ruinous union. I suppose I would be more positive on the union had it not been so dishonest, perversely lying their way into supremacy over democracy :P
You grab 30 nations, destroy their ability to stand on their own and then have them all lean on unelected officials with no accountability who need not disclose their meetings, what do you get? It is unsurprising that efforts to combat corruption in Europe happen on the national level, not on the Commission :/

Quote from: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 08:19:51 am

EU needs less men such as this gentleman over here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

Quote

The President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, was bitch slapping EU leaders, calling Hungarian PM 'dictator' in front of the press at the EU-Eastern Partnership summit in Latvia.

This really is the future we chose

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 10:35:54 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 20, 2016, 09:55:19 am

Where are any of us able to participate in the decision making of the area? We don't even get to vote for representatives who have any power on the Commission.

--

We would, were we able to vote all the representatives(everyone with power) directly and if the decision making was more transparent. These are now the most important problems to me. EU doesnt seem to be at the same side with its citizens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on February 20, 2016, 10:39:45 am

The EU both expanded and centralized WAY too fast in the last decades.

It has to go back to mainly being a free trade zone.

If they continue like this the EU may very well implode in the near future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

I like the EU. It is more democratic than he was pre-Lisbon, and moving in the right direction. I'll grant that the Commissions has too much power, and I'd love to get rid of the system of appointment by governments. Also, direct suffrage for the Commission president (because the indirect system we have now is at the risk of national governments). I would have had much more respect for Dave if he had tried to get some of those reforms rather than carve opt-outs for the UKs.

It's fun to see LW complain about the Commisssion being unelected. Surely a eurosceptics wouldn't want to see Commissioners elected rather than depends on the national governments?  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2016, 11:51:49 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 08:28:01 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2016, 06:06:01 am

What "northern" Europe countries would be in that club, are you saying?

Why, anyone who doesn't belong to the "PIGS" (lovely acronym, isn't it?). As recent events demonstrate.

That's a strange view to me, given that the northernmost countries are the ones who's given the most and received the least back. All while having our environmental and health laws and civil rights stepped on, repealed, or salamied. I do not appreciate being blamed for Germany's and France's government's actions.

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

It is more democratic than he was pre-Lisbon,

You mean the treaty in relation to which the democracy and public opinion of several countries was repeatedly stepped on and ignored? That's not the right direction to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 20, 2016, 12:22:09 pm

So, the "Brexit" referendum date has been set for June 23rd. From now until then, expect to see Tory MP's and Cabinet ministers exploit any opportunity to climb over the corpses of their rivals to further pursue their political careers. Already big names are squaring off. Cameron is Pro. Gove is Anti. Boris did not attend the cabinet meeting. If the opposition was not so weak, one would think this were a good opportunity to politically manoeuvre ready for the next election. Alas, the shadow side of the commons is just that - a shadow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 20, 2016, 12:35:22 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

I like the EU. It is more democratic than he was pre-Lisbon, and moving in the right direction. I'll grant that the Commissions has too much power, and I'd love to get rid of the system of appointment by governments. Also, direct suffrage for the Commission president (because the indirect system we have now is at the risk of national governments). I would have had much more respect for Dave if he had tried to get some of those reforms rather than carve opt-outs for the UKs.

1. David Cameron tried stopping Jean Claude-Juncker from being chosen as President of the European Union, yet here he is happy slapping world leaders and calling the Hungarian Prime Minister a dictator. What reforms could he get, and how could he get them when the EU already gave itself all the power over its own status of power-grabbing?
2. "It is more democratic than he was pre-Lisbon, and moving in the right direction." How do you say this with a straight face?

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

It's fun to see LW complain about the Commisssion being unelected. Surely a eurosceptics wouldn't want to see Commissioners elected rather than depends on the national governments?  :P

You have very odd conceptions of what makes a eurosceptic. What part of unelected officials having supremacy over national democracy do you not grasp? Why would I rather have that as opposed to just having German ministers choosing who it is? This is like telling me I should rather have sawdust in my eyes than fine wood chippings

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 20, 2016, 12:22:09 pm

So, the "Brexit" referendum date has been set for June 23rd. From now until then, expect to see Tory MP's and Cabinet ministers exploit any opportunity to climb over the corpses of their rivals to further pursue their political careers. Already big names are squaring off. Cameron is Pro. Gove is Anti. Boris did not attend the cabinet meeting. If the opposition was not so weak, one would think this were a good opportunity to politically manoeuvre ready for the next election. Alas, the shadow side of the commons is just that - a shadow.

I fully expect for Gove to triumph, and just when he thinks he's won, Theresa goes in for the stealth kill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 12:59:34 pm

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2016, 11:51:49 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 08:28:01 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2016, 06:06:01 am

What "northern" Europe countries would be in that club, are you saying?

Why, anyone who doesn't belong to the "PIGS" (lovely acronym, isn't it?). As recent events demonstrate.

That's a strange view to me, given that the northernmost countries are the ones who's given the most and received the least back. All while having our environmental and health laws and civil rights stepped on, repealed, or salamied. I do not appreciate being blamed for Germany's and France's government's actions.

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

It is more democratic than he was pre-Lisbon,

You mean the treaty in relation to which the democracy and public opinion of several countries was repeatedly stepped on and ignored? That's not the right direction to me.

Yeah, and I don't appretiate burning around 6000+€ into a rotation abroad only to be ignored and have xenophobic epiteths hurled at me. But such is life, huh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on February 20, 2016, 02:10:26 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

--

It's fun to see LW complain about the Commisssion being unelected. Surely a eurosceptics wouldn't want to see Commissioners elected rather than depends on the national governments?  :P

Our beloved Jyrki wouldn't be there had there been a vote.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 02:39:18 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 12:59:34 pm

Yeah, and I don't appretiate burning around 6000+€ into a rotation abroad only to be ignored and have xenophobic epiteths hurled at me. But such is life, huh?

Wut?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on February 20, 2016, 03:30:05 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 02:39:18 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 12:59:34 pm

Yeah, and I don't appretiate burning around 6000+€ into a rotation abroad only to be ignored and have xenophobic epiteths hurled at me. But such is life, huh?

Wut?

Spent a shitload of money studying abroad, spent most of that time being ignored or insulted by foreign students and professors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on February 20, 2016, 03:49:12 pm

Less studying and not practicing medicine (surgery of some kind, I think) but I think it's a similar concept.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 03:49:34 pm

It takes skill to ignore and insult someone at the same time. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2016, 03:56:31 pm

.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 20, 2016, 08:22:04 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/iWj1a3e.png)

You know what time it is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ntZV4Dl.png)

Banter time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on February 21, 2016, 04:06:58 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 20, 2016, 12:35:22 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 20, 2016, 10:48:45 am

It's fun to see LW complain about the Commisssion being unelected. Surely a eurosceptics wouldn't want to see Commissioners elected rather than depends on the national governments?  :P

You have very odd conceptions of what makes a eurosceptic. What part of unelected officials having supremacy over national democracy do you not grasp? Why would I rather have that as opposed to just having German ministers choosing who it is? This is like telling me I should rather have sawdust in my eyes than fine wood chippings

The truly sad part is that, in the end, it all starts with elected officials. The people who get appointed are appointed by elected officials, or by people are themselves appointed to their positions by elected officials. Democracy is a self-stabilising system, but this means it wobbles in the first place really easily. Or it just contains the seeds of it's own doom because it kinda relies on coordination of utterly massive groups of people to be really effective and that's a laughable notion of it's own.

Besides, Europe seems like it needs a good King-ing. Still has some pangs left in the system from the olden days, having a bit of indigestion now for the lack. Either that or it'll be a good reminder in whether we want to go back to those old days with the executions and all. Still, my support will always go towards the rightful Lord of Yurop, God-Emperor Donald Trump the Trumpst.  Trumpingrad for life. He'll make an indiscriminate number of countries great again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on February 21, 2016, 04:44:42 am

TLDR: no union without solidarity + solidarity is more than a lip service, it can cost you, so don't whine.

Given the notion that a country, and likewise a unions, stability ultimately depends on the sense of solidarity between its members (which are states, representatives and citizens), the EU is over. You can force it a bit to draw it out (others, like business, want the EU nevertheless), but eventually it will fall apart (like we are seeing in Belgium on the nation scale? not sure), or needs to adapt not-so-democratic means as a glue (for exampling the way Spain keeps hold on Basque and Catalonia).
So yes, it is up to us to have a union with solidarity throughout, or retreat to smaller units where that solidarity still exists. I doubt you'd find many a, e.g.,  Frenchman who would seriously consider giving up on France as unified state in favour of splitting it up again into smaller regions, and this is because there is this mutual solidarity encompassing most French, who know that 'somehow' they belong together. This sense of solidarity has existed in the 80s and 90s in large parts of then-Europe (although maybe never so much in the UK), but appears entirely lost now. Most have long retracted to the nation level, when evaluating who they share an interest with.
So if there is no common ground for Europeans, leave it be. I really dislike that, but if its like that, well bye.

Another thing:
It would be better to build the union on a continuous strive for solidarity, instead of just allowing "i wanna be in but no play along" mentality that most countries display at the moment. It should be really easy to drop out of the EU, and very hard to (re-)enter. It should for example be enough to drop out by not showing enough positive engagement for furthering integration alone. Then the union would certainly be much smaller or not exist at all, but at least it would be certain that all members, if any, would actually be there out of shared interest.

Anyone else can form a free trade zone, if that's what they prefer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 21, 2016, 10:36:07 am

There are about half a dozen people in the UK capable of largely influencing the UK-EU referendum. Nigel's got the southern pub crawlers and northern brawlers with his Welsh and Ireland civic nationalists, George Galloway has his taqiyyah Scot and cultural marxist banter audience, Osborne has his illuminati circle and the intfin connexions, and then there is the harbinger of Rhubarb.

THE HARBINGER OF RHUBARB HAS ARRIVED (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35626621)

BEWARE BOGO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 21, 2016, 10:55:11 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 21, 2016, 10:36:07 am

THE HARBINGER OF RHUBARB HAS ARRIVED (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35626621)

BEWARE BOGO

BORIS HAS ARRIVED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC1pDjmlVTo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 21, 2016, 11:51:15 am

Ah, the carer politician games have peaked early. Johnston wants to be PM. Johnston knows to be PM, Cameron must be dethroned. What better way to do this than to force him to fall on his sword following a referendum defeat. Worst case scenario is that he ends up a figurehead of those who do not support Cameron, and pushes other PM/Tory leader contenders into the background come leadership election time.

Oh for a debate between Corbyn and Big Bad Boris. That would be fucking hilarious. In fact, the out team of Gove, IDS, Farage-kip, Boris and Galloway is generally quite entertaining in its dysfunction. I suspect the Out campaign will be a badly co-ordinated mess of loud ego rather akin to trying to haul a bus full of squirrel moneys with a herd of kittens. Politics in the Uk will be very interesting over the next few months as on the record ideological differences are aired publicly with scant regard for party lines and personal loyalties. Bravo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 21, 2016, 12:35:35 pm

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 21, 2016, 11:51:15 am

Ah, the carer politician games have peaked early. Johnston wants to be PM. Johnston knows to be PM, Cameron must be dethroned. What better way to do this than to force him to fall on his sword following a referendum defeat.

Nah if he wanted to do careerist moves he'd ally with Cameron, such an alliance would deal a heavy blow to any future Tory party leaders (Osborne, Duncan, May) who all backed the independence movement, force Cameron to make him his successor as his only ally with power to sway, and Cameron's already secured his own exit path no matter what the outcome of the referendum is (in his Andrew Marr interview he talked about how he campaigned on the promise of a referendum and cleverly said no matter the outcome he'll have delivered. So if he wins = successful leadership, if he loses = I totes gave you that win). The fact that happy beer man and taqiyyah scot are standing side by side despite disagreeing on almost everything else says it all. BATTLEBROOSER BORISATIONAL

Somewhat related is how Cameron has steadily been growing weaker anyways
Farage was ranked 58th in the 2010 list compiled by Iain Dale and Brian Brivati for The Daily Telegraph. In the 2012 list, Farage was ranked 17th, and in 2013 he was ranked second behind Prime Minister David Cameron. In 2014, he was ranked first, ahead of Cameron. I think Cameron would give up his career even if he won this referendum tbh, and take up consultancy or something

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 21, 2016, 11:51:15 am

Oh for a debate between Corbyn and Big Bad Boris. That would be fucking hilarious.

Glory
And Cameron has to watch

Actually, one thing to watch is how London factors into this. Boris has mad Jewish cred (http://i.imgur.com/z4mzMMd.jpg) with his Jewish roots and his defence of Israel as well as mad Russian cred because he was cloned from Putin cells (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/07/boris-johnson-allies-should-join-assad-and-russia-against-isis) (and has Russian roots), mad double English cred (and being highly charismatic and unstoppable). He's also got Murrican roots too, in fact one day he could run for American Presidency as he was born in Murrica and will make America great again (some day).
But there is an interesting battle being played out by the potential future mayor candidates. We have Zac Goldsmith who's an upper class Jew born to a multimillionare whilst his labour opposition Sadiq Khan is a middle-class Muslim who started from the bottom in a working-class Pakstani family. Zac Goldsmith is making the case for UK independence to stick to his principles, which is highly admirable, but he's doing it in the most Europhile area of the entire UK whilst Sadiq Khan is already using his stance to attack him - basically the first statement Goldsmith makes will make or break his career from here on out. This is going to be extremely tough for Zac to pull off as Sadiq is an excellent politician with all the ammunition he needs to sink Zac whereas Zac can only stand on his credentials, his policies and can't rely on his upper-class connections and qualities at a time where leftist populism is the only thing that unites the three main branches of London leftism. Politically he sticks to his principles and is more akin to a Libertarian from the States in that he believes in economic and social freedom, but it's a lot harder for him to convince Londoners that he wants to enfranchise them than it is for Labour to call him an Eton millionaire Tory. His help to the Leave campaign is invaluable, but I worry if he is not torpedoing himself here. Still, I'm glad the leave campaign is getting his help. Those who would be willing to sacrifice their own careers to save their country are exactly the people this country needs. GLORY GLORY GLORY GOLD

Somewhat poetically, Boris is one of the key figures in the past who managed to broaden Euroscepticism in the UK from being a left-wing green/ld phenomenon to a mainstream right-wing phenomenon (to the point where a referendum has been secured). Boris in the past, Boris in the present, Boris in the future, BORIS GOOOOOAL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 01:57:33 pm

I'm genuinely not sure whose politics are more fucked up, the US or the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 02:04:00 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 01:57:33 pm

I'm genuinely not sure whose politics are more fucked up, the US or the UK.

WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN HARDER THAN ATLANTIS GLORY GLORY BOGO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2016, 02:33:36 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 02:04:00 pm

WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN HARDER THAN ATLANTIS GLORY GLORY BOGO

You could always hire some Dutch water engineers. Discount prices for EU members!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:37:41 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 22, 2016, 02:33:36 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 02:04:00 pm

WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN HARDER THAN ATLANTIS GLORY GLORY BOGO

You could always hire some Dutch water engineers. Discount prices for EU members!

that was a "Coventry-during-the-Blitz" level burn

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 22, 2016, 02:54:04 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 22, 2016, 03:37:19 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

I attribute it to the vast increase in voter disinterest over the past 2-3 decades. I remember seeing graphics that pointed out how many constituencies here would have been won by 'abstain/no vote' in the last GE if that were an option and it covered something like 70% of England, and big chunks of Wales and N. Ireland. A huge portion of voters, mostly left wing ones if they match the general trends of their constituencies, just don't vote anymore.

I've seen a few theories bandied about for why it's the case, but the one that makes the most sense to me is that the left wing public largely feel they have no party that really represents their political viewpoint. New Labour didn't, the Tories didn't. The Lib Dems sort of did at the GE before last and got a decent surge in support with their pro-welfare and public services stance, but that collapsed after the coalition government. That's a long period of time with no one the left wing public really identified with.

That's sort of going away now, with the rise of the SNP in Scotland, and maybe Corbyn in England, depends on what effect he has on the Labour party in the long term, but for now it makes for more than a little political weirdness as the social democrat demographic tries to assert itself again in a country that has viewed the word socialist as more than a little dirty for some 20+ years.

There's also the matter of the British Right fracturing over the issue of the EU, which actually poses an interesting situation from a Scottish perspective in addition to giving us our own version of Teapartiers in the form of UKIP, the BNP and various groups like Britain First. Scotland is majority in favour of staying in, but there's a strong movement in England for Brexit, as it is so lazily called. It's often chatted about up here that if Scotland votes to stay in the EU but the rest of Britain votes to leave it would be justification for another independence referendum. The risk of that is something of a sword over the head of the Westminster parties, as opening themselves up to accusations of being responsible for destroying the British Union could be a pretty big way to lose votes later down the line.



Ninja'd while typing.

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 22, 2016, 02:54:04 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Let's not forget the Scottish Nationalist vs British Nationalist divide (not quite the same as England vs Scotland), it's only a recent development but it's certainly influenced a lot of the political blather in the past few years given the referendum and subsequent SNP domination of Scotland. Doesn't come up outside Scotland as much since the referendum and GE, but it'll almost certainly roll up again in a little while when the EU referendum and Scottish Elections come around.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 04:04:02 pm

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 22, 2016, 02:54:04 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Meh, that's not that different from the US. Republicans and Democrats are not monolithic, as the current primary campaigns so demonstrably reveal.
The Republicans are an amalgam of wealthy elites, poor uneducated whites, rabid nationalists, religious conservatives, Constitutional fundamentalists, economic libertarians, and rural isolationists.
The Democrats are an amalgam of wealthy elites, minorities, civil libertarians, LGBTs, environmentalists, religious liberals and atheists, young people, nanny staters, internationalists and a few bona fide Leftists (very few).

If we had a system where third parties had any kind of power on par with the Lib Dems, we'd easily have five or six major parties (Rich Center-Right, Rich Center-Left, Social Conservative, Socialist, Green, Libertarian/Randite).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 04:26:55 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 22, 2016, 03:37:19 pm

That's sort of going away now, with the rise of the SNP in Scotland, and maybe Corbyn in England, depends on what effect he has on the Labour party in the long term, but for now it makes for more than a little political weirdness as the social democrat demographic tries to assert itself again in a country that has viewed the word socialist as more than a little dirty for some 20+ years.
There's also the matter of the British Right fracturing over the issue of the EU, which actually poses an interesting situation from a Scottish perspective in addition to giving us our own version of Teapartiers in the form of UKIP, the BNP and various groups like Britain First. Scotland is majority in favour of staying in, but there's a strong movement in England for Brexit, as it is so lazily called. It's often chatted about up here that if Scotland votes to stay in the EU but the rest of Britain votes to leave it would be justification for another independence referendum. The risk of that is something of a sword over the head of the Westminster parties, as opening themselves up to accusations of being responsible for destroying the British Union could be a pretty big way to lose votes later down the line.

I find your analysis of the situation rather strange. After the Tory victory solidarity was ironclad and after the EU referendum was announce solidarity expanded beyond the Conservatives. Today stands a coalition of a cultural-marxist Scottish Muslim-convert, a working-class hard eurosceptic civic nationalist, a neocon progressive liberal with pragmatic euroscepticism, a Jewish old-money libertarian conservative and the BOGO amongst many more.
Likewise have they been telling you what happened down south with Corbyn? Because in the short term he caused a schism with feminists when he balked out on giving half his cabinet to women, caused a schism with the pro-renewal faction when he refused to back down on Trident (the last argument over this was 12 days ago), caused a schism with the oldguard when he gave every cabinet position to his allies and forced them to resign, caused another schism when he said Paris was a result of Western intervention, caused a great massive sleuth of resignations and just one month ago three shadow ministers resigned on live TV in protest of Corbyn's purge of moderate MPs. The left-wing of Britain has been in a state of constant revolt against itself and I can't even cheer because nothing good's come out of it. Except maybe reducing opposition to the independence movement, but I want to see Labour reunite the left soon, before the Conservatives grow complacent and the Left permanently fractures into crazy warbands.

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 22, 2016, 02:54:04 pm

This, and the fact that the UK contains within said small space and dense population a huge number of dividing lines. North v South, Left v Right, lingering vestiges of the class system, England v Scotland V Wales V NI, Urban v Rural... the list goes on and on. In the US, political thought is split into two polar camps. Each camp may hate each other, but within your camp you are safe and secure. here in the UK, almost nobody has the same ideological identity. A neo-middle class New Labour Blairite from the South East will have little in common with a traditional working class ship building Old Labour socialist from the Gorbals, despite being on similar bits of the political spectrum. Just look at the divisions in the Tory cabinet happening as we speak as a result of this EU referendum. A single issue splitting people dramatically despite overall close political beliefs. Such is the chaotic way of a subtle and nuanced system where everyone else is wrong but you. *shrug*

Oi m8 this is not exactly bread taxes, this is the single most important decision the British people will be voting on since Parliament last voted on beheading the King :D
When Jeremy Corbyn and David Cameron stand by and support each other on this you know something's up :D

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 22, 2016, 03:37:19 pm

Doesn't come up outside Scotland as much since the referendum and GE, but it'll almost certainly roll up again in a little while when the EU referendum and Scottish Elections come around.

REFERENDUMS FOR DAYS WOLOLOLO

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:37:41 pm

that was a "Coventry-during-the-Blitz" level burn

No wonder Cali's en fuego in floods, you substitute fire for moistness

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.
You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

There was a time where our politics was mostly just centrists vs centrists for about 30 years, I would place the turning point at the 2008 financial crisis when the US housing bubble popped. From then on out the allied centrists had to do unpopular things like austerity, immigration began rolling out faster and faster, the left started getting destroyed for supporting the right-centrists and in the south both left-centrists and right-centrists became under threat by populists on far-right and far-left lines. To top it all off, it also marked the sudden rise of the banterist politicians - the main ones you already know for example, but Boris Johnson notably was not considered a serious contender for London and yet was elected in 2008 all the same as there were no other candidates. So we had the rise of these quite banterist figures who defy all logic yet continue to be successful in getting things done, BEWARE BOGO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 05:02:34 pm

So he was Trump before Trump?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 22, 2016, 05:46:01 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 05:02:34 pm

So he was Donald "Did you notice that baby was crying through half of the speech and I didn’t get angry?" Trump before Donald "Did you notice that baby was crying through half of the speech and I didn’t get angry?" Trump?

He does have similarly stupid hair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 06:45:34 pm

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 05:02:34 pm

So he was Trump before Trump?

No, entirely different story, BOGO is an anomaly that defies explanation that pursues different policies and strategies to achieve them. Likewise nobody expected him to succeed, but also no one really tried stopping him. Trump is a lot easier to explain as he's a professional provocateur and anticipates the actions people would make to stop him in order to profit off of them. With expert rhetoric Trump paralyzes his opponents with sharp venom, whereas Boris just... Rhubarbs his way through politics. Like that time where some protestors tried egging him and they all couldn't hit his bobbin and weavin, Trump would just have them roughed up whereas Boris used their poor aim as justification to increase physical education spending. BORISATIONAL BORISOOSER BISHOP OF BANTERBURY is the master of having fun with politics (so much so that for his election the tories had to hire an Aussie adviser just to stop Boris making too much banter) whose done an great job, also I don't like the comparison between Boris and Trump when the former's a proggy for migrants whilst the latter's a bouncer for migrants. I don't want to start new Godwin's ;D
More similar would be our Nick Griffin, except Nick Griffin today is a dismal failure whose party was demolished by UKIP after they had blundered through every political stage and picked apart themselves. Nigel Farage on home soil reverts to his natural behaviour of banter and beer but when he goes abroad to Europe he does that sort of Trumpesque jimmy rustling where he provokes europhile MEPs as a career. I don't think the UK has a Trump yet, but peeps are making comparisons between ebin lePen and Trump (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35075439)

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 22, 2016, 05:46:01 pm

He does have similarly stupid hair.

HIS HAIR GIVES HIM POWER

HE IS SAMPSON REBORN

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 09:41:13 pm

I know so many left wing people who say they love Boris, but hate that he's a Tory. The only worry is that once in power he turns out to be an evil genius.

Quote from: RedKing on February 22, 2016, 02:15:04 pm

I mean, I get why our politics is crazy -- we've got 300+ million people scattered across 10 million km² and we're basically seven or eight cultural regions forced to co-exist uneasily under the same roof.

You guys have about twice the population of California in about half as much space. Is it the compression factor? Too many people in too small a space, things heat up, people get kind of stir-crazy, that sort of thing? You still haven't elected a foreign-born bodybuilder and action film hero to be your leader though. So California has one up on y'all there.

Too much history in the Old World, why do you think your ancestors left?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 04:26:55 pm

Likewise have they been telling you what happened down south with Corbyn? Because in the short term he caused a schism with <almost everyone>

The impression I get locally is that a lot of old school liberals just may vote Labour instead of abstaining like they usually do (the hate for New Labour is strong). Frankly I'm no fan despite leaning left, but Labour have no chance around here anyway LibDem v Con forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 10:36:04 pm

Quote from: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 09:41:13 pm

I know so many left wing people who say they love Boris, but hate that he's a Tory. The only worry is that once in power he turns out to be an evil genius.

With his genius there is no need for morality, shhhhhhhhh sweet child of Spring, only Boris now, let the Rhubarb rub you to sleep

Quote from: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 09:41:13 pm

The impression I get locally is that a lot of old school liberals just may vote Labour instead of abstaining like they usually do (the hate for New Labour is strong). Frankly I'm no fan despite leaning left, but Labour have no chance around here anyway LibDem v Con forever.

Quote

The Labour party membership is increasingly in line with the views of their leader. 68% of Labour members opose renewal of Trident, 64% think trade unions should have more influence, 58% say they wouldn’t vote for any Labour leader if they had supported airstrikes against Syria. Recent recruits are even more Corbynite – over 80% of those who’ve joined in the last year are anti-Trident, over 70% think unions should have more influence and would only support a leader who opposed airstrikes in Syria.
A leftwards consolidation of the Labour party membership however risks opening up a significant gulf between the views of members and voters. The most obvious example of that here is immigration. On salience, health and the economy are seen as two of the three biggest issues facing the country by Labour members, Labour voters and the general public. But on immigration 60% of the general public think it is a major issue, 46% of Labour voters do, just 17% of Labour members do; 78% of Labour party members think immigration is good for the economy, only 41% of Labour voters do, only 29% of the general public.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Purging your own party's moderates unsurprisingly fucks up your appeal to the entire country, limiting yourself to grabbing a larger share of the fringe-left whilst losing touch with the majority. The libdems could get away with this because their specialty is being a large share of a small percentage, but for labour it's just sad, pointless self-destruction of a party who formerly had broad appeal and rule over our country for so long. Good for Corbyn's career, but the party's future is increasingly in jeopardy. Now I wonder where all those moderates pushed away will go. Libdem/green, tory, civics, or abstain? It's been one month since mass resignations, one week since the last public row and infighting and one day since Corbyn was last attacked for supporting an organization that crushed the Greek anti-austerity movement. He's havin a laff. In the wake of 2008 when parties started adopting ideological lines, only labour saw fit to begin dismantling all of her own MPs who did not fit with the leader's ideology. For all their sheer, sheer fuck ups with cultural enrichment and corruption I actually once supported them and would have more sympathy with them were their EU stance more pronounced, but they've steadily been drinking more and more kool-aid under a leader who gives no fucks and just wants his ideology to win. This must be what it is like for GOP members to watch Trump dissect the Republicans, it's grueling to see infighting after infighting, every headline being the latest cabinet member or MP declaring 'I have decided I can better help labour outside the party.' We're seeing people who have fought for labour for decades being forced out by a ideologue :/
I'm not even going to go into how dismally the Labour party, the one that introduced mass cultural enrichment for the purpose of replacing their working class support with immigrant support, managed to lose both under Corbyn. Black, Asian, Jewish support for Tories has been increasing whilst Corbyn's had extreme friction with the likes of Chuka Umunna, Sadiq Khan, David Mencer e.t.c. at a time when Labour cut off one leg to hold onto a crutch it began sawing away at! Why would you do this?
Labour needs their own Boris or their moderates to hold on desperately in order to save the party before it is hemorrhaged to death by zealots.

*EDIT
We live in a world where our conservatives are multikultural diverse fuckers doing their own thing whilst our left-wing party is ruled by an old white man who kept women out of his cabinet and purged his party of its ethnic support
And I find it kinda funny
I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm BOGO
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very mad world, mad world

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 10:57:03 pm

Boris is beyond good and evil, rhubarb rhubarb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOiwJkMvIYI&feature=youtu.be&t=83)?

I agree that Corbyn's got no chance of being Prime Minister and hope I never have to eat those words. Would be nice to see some collective strength on the left again and some chance that it won't be Tories all the way down for the foreseeable future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2016, 11:30:55 pm

Quote from: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 10:57:03 pm

Boris is beyond good and evil, rhubarb rhubarb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOiwJkMvIYI&feature=youtu.be&t=83)?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VzqzhF5.jpg)

Quote from: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 10:57:03 pm

I agree that Corbyn's got no chance of being Prime Minister and hope I never have to eat those words.

Now you've gone and jynxed it, tomorrow he's President of the Commission!

Quote from: Vattic on February 22, 2016, 10:57:03 pm

Would be nice to see some collective strength on the left again and some chance that it won't be Tories all the way down for the foreseeable future.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/v1KYDKh.jpg)

As long as they have Boris this is a future I am ok with

Sadly Boris can't live forever, so yes I agree wholeheartedly that the left must regenerate its lost limbs otherwise the UK will not have a stable political future, and Lord knows short-sighted profits has been a bane to human existence long enough. Where did it all go wrong? I mean that metaphorically, not in regards to the whole 2008 crash spawning such political zaniness :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2016, 08:19:39 am

According to the international organization for migration (http://migration.iom.int/europe/ (http://migration.iom.int/europe/)), so far, already 100000 refugees crossed the Mediterrenean sea into Europe in 2016, despite it being wintertime, which makes crossing more cold and dangerous.

Compared to last year, when the number 100000 was only reached in july, it looks like we'll see many more refugees this year than we did last year.

At least 102547 persons came ashore this year on the Greek islands. Most of those come from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. According to IOM, last week, 7286 migrants crossed the Greek-Macedoinian border.
In Italy, 7505 immigrants arrived this year, most of which are sub-sahara africans, and Libyans fleeing the chaos in their country.

Since januari 2015, 940000 migrants have arrived in Greece. IOM expects that number to break a million in march this year.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/dit-jaar-al-100-000-migranten-over-middellandse-zee-naar-europa~a4250165/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/dit-jaar-al-100-000-migranten-over-middellandse-zee-naar-europa~a4250165/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 23, 2016, 03:03:31 pm

Regarding Boris BoGo McRhubarb Toff...

I think... I think I finally get him. Politics is a game to him. It is a hobby. It is fun and games and banter. He loves it. He is a Tory as he was born a Tory and had Tory drummed into him via posh schooling. A few hundred years ago he would have been in his element as some mad ass governor of a colony somewhere, but alas now as no roles that he was bred for actually exist nowadays he is limited to entertaining himself via democracy and forming himself into some kind of idiosyncratic pastiche of a stereotypical blue blood conservative. People love a clown, and I suspect he knows it. Fuck knows he is entertaining and likeable, and for some people, that is enough, regardless of his politics as people just don't give a shit about politics when Boris is RAHRAHRAHing about the place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2016, 04:53:19 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/waves_zpsfpcdnxgb.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/waves_zpsfpcdnxgb.png.html)
http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/collignon~p3761431/3618886/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on February 23, 2016, 05:26:01 pm

So the UK is the EU's lifeboat?  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 07:36:07 pm

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 23, 2016, 03:03:31 pm

Regarding Boris BoGo McRhubarb Toff...
I think... I think I finally get him. Politics is a game to him. It is a hobby. It is fun and games and banter. He loves it. He is a Tory as he was born a Tory and had Tory drummed into him via posh schooling.

It's worth point out that all of our MPs come from the same schools, except UKIP who are mostly people who never went to higher education. If this were the case then every MP would be BOGO BORIS and the world would be a better place

Quote from: MonkeyHead on February 23, 2016, 03:03:31 pm

Fuck knows he is entertaining and likeable, and for some people, that is enough, regardless of his politics as people just don't give a shit about politics when Boris is RAHRAHRAHing about the place.

Also he gets infrastructure spending, and manages to make infrastructure spending sexy

Quote from: martinuzz on February 23, 2016, 04:53:19 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/waves_zpsfpcdnxgb.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/waves_zpsfpcdnxgb.png.html)
http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/collignon~p3761431/3618886/

"The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves."

I suppose that song explains the British mindset quite clearly. Nowadays things have changed and Google and CocaCola rule the seas, and I am certain in the future to come we'll have to fight for our liberties that have been eroded through sheer complacency once more, but while other nations must in their turn to tyrants fall by backdoor and sneaky minister all, our little ditch flooded as it is into its channel lets us do what we wish - Britons never, never, never shall be slaves. There is also a little verse on the end about how every time we are struck by foreign strokes we somehow have always managed to rise stronger and higher, which I just chalk down to Britons needing projects to rally around as the Germans do. Give me the choice between being the passenger of a cruise liner or command of a ship of the line, I will sacrifice comfort and luxury for my own steering wheel and charter. Amusingly due to a quirk in assignment rules in regards to having to have all Navy personnel assigned to a ship, Navy personnel assigned to Naval bases are assigned to "concrete frigates" and those sent away from Navy establishments are assigned to HMS Victory, the oldest warship in commission in the world - having served under Admiral Nelson in crushing Napoleon Bonaparte's fleet at the battle of Trafalgar.

Spoiler: obligatory (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/ffZo5zP.jpg)

The lifeboat is fleeing the Titanic
Women and syrian children first

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 23, 2016, 07:45:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 07:36:07 pm

Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Except to, y'know, Normans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 07:52:12 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 23, 2016, 07:45:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 07:36:07 pm

Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Except to, y'know, Normans.

Before the Norman conquest the Church decreed that slavery be abolished and when the Normans arrived the Norman aristocracy abided by this starting with William the Conqueror, placing more and more restrictions on slavery until the practice was only done by Welsh and Scottish raiders or Corsairs, which was a pretty cool move by William. Good job Normans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 23, 2016, 08:26:24 pm

Y'know, on second thought I should've done the 'Brits will become slavs by immigration of Polish plumbers' joke.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on February 24, 2016, 02:27:36 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 23, 2016, 07:45:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 07:36:07 pm

Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Except to, y'know, Normans.

And the English! It's pretty funny in hindsight since all the Brythons were either enslaved, killed off, or driven out of the country. Excepting the Welsh and Cornwelsh, of course, but they git the Anglic yoke on them too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 24, 2016, 04:06:27 am

Thanks LW that edit of the cartoon made me giggle

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 24, 2016, 11:41:32 am

Belgium re-establish border controls with France (http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/detail_jan-jambon-retablit-le-controle-des-frontieres-avec-la-france?id=9221546) ahead of planned removal of the migrant camps in Calais.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 24, 2016, 01:46:35 pm

Spoiler: EuroBall (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/N4JbUPd.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 24, 2016, 01:54:30 pm

what is the small black ball?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 24, 2016, 02:17:48 pm

Cornwall?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on February 24, 2016, 02:29:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 24, 2016, 02:17:48 pm

Cornwall?

Yep

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miljan on February 24, 2016, 05:18:06 pm

Hostage situation at Bella Italia restaurant in London’s Leicester Square
http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id3688

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on February 24, 2016, 05:35:27 pm

Quote from: miljan on February 24, 2016, 05:18:06 pm

Hostage situation at Bella Italia restaurant in London’s Leicester Square
http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id3688

Looks pretty tame. It's one guy with a knife and one hostage, as well as two other people who are apparently really keen to finish dinner on their one night out, and probably some very frightened vats of ravioli. Is this kind of thing uncommon enough in Europe for it to go beyond local news?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 24, 2016, 05:36:47 pm

Kinda sorta. In yurop violent deaths are relatively rare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 24, 2016, 06:10:06 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on February 24, 2016, 05:35:27 pm

Quote from: miljan on February 24, 2016, 05:18:06 pm

Hostage situation at Bella Italia restaurant in London’s Leicester Square
http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id3688

Looks pretty tame. It's one guy with a knife and one hostage, as well as two other people who are apparently really keen to finish dinner on their one night out, and probably some very frightened vats of ravioli. Is this kind of thing uncommon enough in Europe for it to go beyond local news?

By US standards of local, national UK news is local news. We are a smallish country, with lots of polis and a thughood who tend to beat each other up more than random diners.

It might also be noted because its central London and therefore once again the thousands of police with machine guns lurking on street corners didn't stop it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 24, 2016, 06:28:49 pm

Small? London is massively populated. IIRC its actually one of the most populous cities in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smirk on February 24, 2016, 06:37:59 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on February 24, 2016, 05:35:27 pm

Quote from: miljan on February 24, 2016, 05:18:06 pm

Hostage situation at Bella Italia restaurant in London’s Leicester Square
http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id3688

Looks pretty tame. It's one guy with a knife and one hostage, as well as two other people who are apparently really keen to finish dinner on their one night out, and probably some very frightened vats of ravioli. Is this kind of thing uncommon enough in Europe for it to go beyond local news?

Correction: One guy who has intimated he is in possession of a knife. Any bets on whether or not it actually is? I'm hoping for salad tongs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 24, 2016, 09:46:53 pm

Ban high capacity assault tongs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 24, 2016, 10:05:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 24, 2016, 09:46:53 pm

Ban high capacity assault tongs

maybe a sharpened piece of pasta?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 24, 2016, 10:29:26 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
I've just been snooping through the TTIP and the EU's negotiations of it and I'm laffin at the people who say anyone's having a say in how this beast is run. One of the things that struck my eyes and ears though was the speech by the EU trade commissioner:

Quote

Like it or not, many people all across this continent do not feel the political system is meeting their needs.
That goes especially for European politics. Based here in Brussels, with limited  coverage in national media, the European Union is easy to see as remote, even out of touch.
Meetings like this one are so important because they help strengthen the connection between the European Union and the European people.
And that is particularly important when it comes to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or TTIP for short.
Many people have said and written many things about these negotiations. For some people TTIP exemplifies the disconnection of European politics from the people.
I do understand where they are coming from. Brussels can seem far away. Washington DC more so. On top of this, the benefits of trade – lower prices, more choice, more demand for our exports – are spread out among  many people, and so not always obvious. 
But I also understand, and I say this in full respect of those who hold them, that those viewpoints do not see the full picture.
Because what I want to say to you today is that this agreement is in fact a direct response to the needs and hopes of all Europeans.
Why?
Because it's not about giving more profits to big business but about bringing jobs to
communities who need them.
Because it's not about dismantling government protections but about making them more effective.
And because it's not about surrendering sovereignty but about strengthening Europe's position in the world at time of great change. [SURRENDERING INTENSIFIES]
Let's start with jobs.
Let's be clear, what we do in a negotiation is make it easier to do business across borders.
And that does help companies.
But that's not why we do it.
We do it because it helps people by creating jobs.
Germany knows more than most just how many jobs that open trade can bring.
7 million people in your country have a job thanks to your export success. That's more than 15% of people working in the country. And 15% of those jobs depend on  exports to the
United States.
So the question that TTIP puts before is, “Do we want more of those jobs?”
Do we want more jobs in Germany's fabled car industry?

Why TTIP is good for Germany
30 January 2015
Cecilia Malmström, Commissioner for Trade
Brussels - Conference of Länder Ministers for European Affairs

Keep in mind this was in response to a protest of a 150,000 Germans

Quote

The EU has admitted that TTIP will probably cause unemployment as jobs switch to the US, where labour standards and trade union rights are lower. It has even advised EU members to draw on European support funds to compensate for the expected unemployment.
Examples from other similar bi-lateral trade agreements around the world support the case for job losses.  The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) between the US, Canada and Mexico caused the loss of one million US jobs over 12 years, instead of the hundreds of thousands of extra that were promised. (anti-Trump shills btfo)

Zero fucks given she gets paid $120,000 of your money whatever the weather, you silly Germans wanting to protect your sovereignty and privacy, your livelihood and your healthcare, you just don't get the bigger picture :D

Ah well, it's all very saaaaaaaaaaaaaad. As far as I care I suspect we'll all be trapped in the belly of this dying beast till it collapses with us within it because the Commission pays enough lip services to being ebin toleran that no one will be free, no reforms will be passed, and I should convert to Swedism to get a cushy job at Brussels with 6 figs and no oversight. yuropoors for days (http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/job/index_en.htm)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 24, 2016, 11:56:54 pm

Double post because looking through the ever-closer-integration-of-the-ever-closer-state I realize it truly is independence now or independence never. I might give a more detailed seriouspost later, but fucking hell, it's happening so quickly. 1985 a proposal is made to reduce border controls, 1990 a proposal is made to introduce a common visa to make travel function as a single state, 1999 the schengen agreement is incorporated into the Amsterdam treaty, in the current year it is now obligatory by law for any EU member states to destroy their own borders (except for Ireland and the UK, for now). That is why people were unironically proposing to "make a regime change" of Hungary, not because they weren't toleran and progresiv enough, but because they were posing a threat to the ever-closer-state.

And then look at how it was applied. No referendums, politicians in favour promised it was not about surrendering sovereignty but about business or post-colonialism, telling both left and right they should be in favour. Then it's signed through with not a single vote cast by referendum, as we've all learned by now the promise that powers are only taken by referendum from countries has never been true. And ffs Norway, people keep talking about Norway as they pay more despite being a non-member, that is because in spite of their country twice voting to stay out of the EU their government signed them up for the EEA and Schengen Area anyways, making them more integrated into the state than countries officially within despite their people voting against it.

I'm looking into how the common-exchange rates led to the common currency which robbed all national Parliaments (except the UK of course) of their ability to set their own budget and it's the same fucking thing again and again. Fucks sakes, the whole history of this all goes back to 70 years when a military union failed, 60 years ago when a political union failed - and then it was decided 50 years ago that Europe be united into one state via economics.
We've come 6 decades from people believing their leaders were signing a free trade deal to having their budgets decided by the Commission, their currency valuation decided by the Commission, their borders decided by the Commission, their law decided by the Commission, their leaders decided by the Commission, their education decided by the Commission, their public media decided by the Commission, their place in the WTO taken by the Commission, and most alarmingly the eurozone crisis brought a push for a fiscal policy set by the Commission, the EU is pushing for France and the UK to surrender their Security Council seats to the Commission, the EU is already consolidating its own military forces with EUFOR and naval exercises and is pushing for a single foreign policy for all European nation states with their High Representative for Foreign Policy.

This is it, this is the last chance we'll ever get, we're running out of things the Commission can take. Revolutions fail when reactionaries strike, but progressive change (not progresiv) raises the temperature until the frog boils, it's why the slippery slope is covered in lube. I'm not sure if I wanted this knowledge, I wish to return to the blissful ignorance, but I also do not. Now I know the stakes, it's now or I'm sending my CV off to the European Union.

All those countries destroyed by politicians signing their nations away without telling any of their people honestly what they were doing, not even trusting them to make the choice of selling out their country themselves... The promise made that all power surrendered would be done by choice of people, yet there was never a vote cast (or in Ireland's case, they just kept repeating referendums until the Irish voted "correctly.") This is why I stopped believing that the ministers in charge of ensuring Europe was incapable of handling the immigrant crisis (with some even bloody encouraging it) or the ministers who gave directives to cover up enriching crime were actively malevolent, not just incompetent. They speak out one end platitudes of giving them voices whilst giving them none, giving them no choices. And the stress of knowing we're running out of time...

BEWARE BOGO
IT IS NOW OR NEVER

JUNE OR DUNE LET'S FUCKING GET HYPE GET HOPE THURSDAY IS THE DAY EVERYTHING CHANGES PRAISE THOR

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 07:12:29 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 25, 2016, 12:00:46 am

Also, Mely Kiyak, a Turkish columnist for German newspaper Die Zeit, has advocated phone-tapping anyone who has taken part in a Pegida (or other right wing group) protest, as well as prohibiting any sort of demonstrations in front of asylum facilities. (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fkultur%2F2016-02%2Fclausnitz-rassismus-reaktion-afd-twitter&edit-text=)

It's funny that so many of these people are trying to convince us that Islamic extremists like ISIS aren't a danger to us, that it's Russia who are the real threat, yet it sounds like they'd love to take a page out of Putin's playbook whenever it suits them.

You do realize that Germany has seen a string of arson attacks on these facilities, right? And you do realize that recently folks gathered in front of such a burning facility and started fucking applauding?

The word Pogromstimmung comes to mind. And if you can't figure out how to translate that properly, think about why we have such a word and English doesn't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 25, 2016, 07:46:14 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 07:12:29 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 25, 2016, 12:00:46 am

Also, Mely Kiyak, a Turkish columnist for German newspaper Die Zeit, has advocated phone-tapping anyone who has taken part in a Pegida (or other right wing group) protest, as well as prohibiting any sort of demonstrations in front of asylum facilities. (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fkultur%2F2016-02%2Fclausnitz-rassismus-reaktion-afd-twitter&edit-text=)

It's funny that so many of these people are trying to convince us that Islamic extremists like ISIS aren't a danger to us, that it's Russia who are the real threat, yet it sounds like they'd love to take a page out of Putin's playbook whenever it suits them.

You do realize that Germany has seen a string of arson attacks on these facilities, right? And you do realize that recently folks gathered in front of such a burning facility and started fucking applauding?

The word Pogromstimmung comes to mind. And if you can't figure out how to translate that properly, think about why we have such a word and English doesn't.

The internet seems to think it translates as 'bloodthirsty mood', so I guess it's the German way of saying bloodlust?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smirk on February 25, 2016, 08:02:49 am

'stimmung' is atmosphere or mood, and a pogrom is an organized mass killing. Historically of Jews. So 'genocidal atmosphere' would be closer to the general feeling; it's a bit stronger than just 'bloodlust'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on February 25, 2016, 09:21:19 am

awake EUloi ,from the goverments that sold your countries and then your national identity away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 11:48:20 am

Portugal wants more refugees to help revive dwindling population[/ur]

 (http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/portugal-wants-more-refugees-to-help-revive-dwindling-population/)

Quote

Costa recently told Brussels that Portugal should “set an example”, adding that he was against “a Europe that closes its borders to block access to refugees”.

His comments echo those he made during a visit to Berlin earlier this month, when he said that it was “unfair” to burden Berlin with a duty which is for “all European leaders”.

But refugees haven’t exactly been knocking on Portugal’s door, with most opting to go to northern European countries such as Sweden and Denmark — which have begun tightening their borders in an effort to stem the flow of migrants.

Portugal has taken just 32 migrants, and the country’s ambassador to Greece, Rui Alberto Tereno, even visited a Greek refugee camp recently in an effort to promote the sunny coastal nation to the migrants making their way across Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on February 25, 2016, 11:50:42 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 11:48:20 am

Portugal wants more refugees to help revive dwindling population[/ur]

 (http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/portugal-wants-more-refugees-to-help-revive-dwindling-population/)

Quote

Costa recently told Brussels that Portugal should “set an example”, adding that he was against “a Europe that closes its borders to block access to refugees”.

His comments echo those he made during a visit to Berlin earlier this month, when he said that it was “unfair” to burden Berlin with a duty which is for “all European leaders”.

But refugees haven’t exactly been knocking on Portugal’s door, with most opting to go to northern European countries such as Sweden and Denmark — which have begun tightening their borders in an effort to stem the flow of migrants.

Portugal has taken just 32 migrants, and the country’s ambassador to Greece, Rui Alberto Tereno, even visited a Greek refugee camp recently in an effort to promote the sunny coastal nation to the migrants making their way across Europe.

dont let them ruin a rather nice country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Purple Gorilla on February 25, 2016, 11:54:00 am

<removed, banned for advocating violence>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 11:56:00 am

Oh, yay, white Genocide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on February 25, 2016, 12:03:53 pm

Quote from: Purple Gorilla on February 25, 2016, 11:54:00 am

-snip-

Bruh.

I don't like how the refugees are being handled either, but claiming the point of it is to displace white Europeans is chemtrail tier tinfoil haberdashery. And people have been banned more than once for things like your second paragraph.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 25, 2016, 12:06:48 pm

You know, let me quote you on some of the parts there.

<removed quote removed>

Fuuuuck, Godwin is almost upon me, man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 07:12:29 am

You do realize that Germany has seen a string of arson attacks on these facilities, right? And you do realize that recently folks gathered in front of such a burning facility and started fucking applauding?
The word Pogromstimmung comes to mind. And if you can't figure out how to translate that properly, think about why we have such a word and English doesn't.

Pogromstimmung translates to pogrom in English

English is a language slut

Quote from: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 11:48:20 am

Portugal wants more refugees to help revive dwindling population[/ur]
 (http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/portugal-wants-more-refugees-to-help-revive-dwindling-population/)

Quote

Costa recently told Brussels that Portugal should “set an example”, adding that he was against “a Europe that closes its borders to block access to refugees”.
His comments echo those he made during a visit to Berlin earlier this month, when he said that it was “unfair” to burden Berlin with a duty which is for “all European leaders”.
But refugees haven’t exactly been knocking on Portugal’s door, with most opting to go to northern European countries such as Sweden and Denmark — which have begun tightening their borders in an effort to stem the flow of migrants.
Portugal has taken just 32 migrants, and the country’s ambassador to Greece, Rui Alberto Tereno, even visited a Greek refugee camp recently in an effort to promote the sunny coastal nation to the migrants making their way across Europe.

Why leave the most important bit out?

Quote

Portugal’s Socialist premier, Antonio Costa, last week sent letters to Austria, Greece, Italy and Sweden — countries that have seen refugees arrive in large numbers — offering to welcome up to 5,800 more refugees in addition to the 4,500 they already agreed to take as part of the European Union’s refugee quota system.
Costa recently told Brussels that Portugal should “set an example”, adding that he was against “a Europe that closes its borders to block access to refugees”.

Their socialist wants 10,000, not 1.5M yearly, and it's not what Portugal wants, it's what Antonio Costa wants - clearly not to deal with a dwindling population, as it's not enough and it's not people who possess the skillsets to replace the Portuguese taxbase. We've seen this argument before with Germany when the Germans started spreading ebin memes about how they would use migrant fertility to enrich their population who are all dusty and needing pensions to pay. Then they arrived and Germans had to pay for dusty Germans and migrants, instead of solving one problem they made two.

Besides, we all know they are doing this because the EU wants to fuck them

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Portugal’s new Socialist government faces an embarrassing rejection of its first “anti-austerity” budget by the European Commission on Friday after eleventh-hour talks failed to break a stalemate over additional cuts needed to bring Lisbon in line with EU deficit rules.
Portuguese officials expressed confidence they would overcome objections from the commission, which last week warned Lisbon it risked “serious non-compliance” with the bloc’s fiscal rules. At the same time, they continued to show defiance, insisting they would not return to the spending policies of the previous centre-right administration.
“We cannot continue following a path of blind austerity,” Augusto Santos Silva, Portugal’s foreign minister, told RTP television on Wednesday. “We have to be demanding and disciplined [over the budget], but Portugal is not a pupil. There are no professor-states or student-states in the EU.”
The commission announced it would hold a special meeting on Friday afternoon to decide whether Portugal’s 2016 budget — submitted three months late after protracted post-election coalition negotiations — would be rejected. If it is, it would mark the first time a eurozone government has had its spending plan vetoed by Brussels since the new crisis-era rules went into effect in 2011.
Lisbon’s tussle with Brussels calls into question the government’s ability to deliver on election pledges to roll back years of austerity by cutting taxes and increasing public sector wages without running foul of the EU’s strict budgetary rules. (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/bcfbc34c-cb39-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44,Authorised=false.html?siteedition=uk&_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fbcfbc34c-cb39-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44.html%3Fsiteedition%3Duk&_i_referer=&classification=conditional_standard&iab=barrier-app#axzz418vNT3pB)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Costa argues that an expansion in disposable income will boost the economy and help cut the deficit more than austerity does.

Cavaco Silva had requested written assurances from Costa that he and his leftist partners would respect Portugal's commitments to EU budget rules, something that Costa's partners had not pledged to do. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-portugal-government-premier-idUSKBN0TD1CR20151124)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

epa04500382 The new Secretary General of the Socialist Party (PS) Antonio Costa on arrival for the press conference after wins the internal elections, at the headquarters of the PS in Lisbon, Portugal, 22 November 2014. Antonio Costa reached the leadership of PS on the day the former Secretary-General of the Socialist Party, Jose Socrates, was interrogated in the Central Criminal Court (TCIC), within the framework of a process in which they investigate suspected crimes of tax evasion, money laundering and corruption. EPA/MANUEL DE ALMEIDA
António Costa, leader of the centre-left Socialists
Portugal’s opposition Socialist Party has increased pressure for an anti-austerity government backed by the hard left, calling it the only viable solution for resolving the deadlock resulting from an inconclusive general election three weeks ago.
António Costa, its leader, has called on President Aníbal Cavaco Silva to appoint him as prime minister-designate, saying he is in a position to form a government with majority backing in parliament from the radical Left Bloc (BE) and the hardline Communist party (PCP). (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/44cc14ca-77d4-11e5-933d-efcdc3c11c89.html#axzz418vNT3pB)

Costa is being cheeki breeki
Portugal Defies EU, Europe Facing Revolt (http://www.livetradingnews.com/portugal-defies-eu-europe-facing-revolt-132316.htm) - feb23rd
Wants to take the moral highground by taking in refugees whilst the Commission is being racist and anti-worker

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 01:01:47 pm

Might make sense. In any case, I don't like that mixing up. Refugees should not be treated as migrants, and migrants should not be treated as refugees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on February 25, 2016, 01:40:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

Poor pick - if we go by the hyperbole, the worst Russians have to fear is that new Stalin is worse than the current Stalin, and would still probably pale in comparison to the Stalin Stalin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 02:17:43 pm

Quote from: scrdest on February 25, 2016, 01:40:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

Poor pick - if we go by the hyperbole, the worst Russians have to fear is that new Stalin is worse than the current Stalin, and would still probably pale in comparison to the Stalin Stalin.

Exactly you have nothing to fear, why hasn't your country joined yet?

Quote from: Sheb on February 25, 2016, 01:01:47 pm

Might make sense. In any case, I don't like that mixing up. Refugees should not be treated as migrants, and migrants should not be treated as refugees.

Yeah but social signalling on twitter is more important dude weed lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 25, 2016, 03:22:47 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 01:16:18 pm

The EU doesn't sound so bad now that it benefits you, does it?

I was going to post a picture of a pineapple, but I'm going to answer seriously or semi-seriously in order to clarify a few misrepresentations

First: I'm not against the EU as a concept. I'm angry because for all that stuff about all being equal in the EU, my perception, and that of many others, is that if you're from Southern Europe, you're not quite as equal (and heavens help you if you're actually from Eastern Europe). Several recent public policy events, as well as certain things I've witnessed, tends to support this view.

And mind you, I'm not even personally targeted by these new policies (in principle. I think. Don't know how far reaching are they though), nor have I born as much xenophobia as others have (probably because I don't look stereotypically southern European... for all practical purposes I'm just a white dude with an unplaceable foreign accent). Still, it is quite annoying to hear people making casual comments in front of you like "OMG so-and-so is such an asshole, he almost seems Spanish!".

Second: "Benefits me" is a relative term.  Free movement of workers is kind of convenient for me in that it makes it easier to access a wider job market, and therefore makes it easier to access certain interesting job openings. It's not a sine qua non condition in order to prosper abroad, however, nor is a sine qua non condition for prospering to go abroad. I'm not in financial dire straits (in fact, that's why I can afford to look for options abroad at all) I'd most likely have work in my field closer to home if I pressed. I'd rather widen my options, however.

Third

(https://cdn-img.fimfiction.net/user/iqmh-1431818481-346-256)
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 03:23:29 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

Because NATO doesn't want Russia in itself, and since EU and NATO have mostly the same members, notably - the post-Warsaw pact states like Poland, Litva, Latvia, Estonia, etc., well you get the idea. Also, there's the problem of insane EU standards which are physically impossible to meet, even for Germans, so yeah.

also i think EU might be a tad miffled with our recent foreign advancement so there's that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 03:27:24 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 03:23:29 pm

Because NATO doesn't want Russia in itself, and since EU and NATO have mostly the same members, notably - the post-Warsaw pact states like Poland, Litva, Latvia, Estonia, etc., well you get the idea. Also, there's the problem of insane EU standards which are physically impossible to meet, even for Germans, so yeah.

also i think EU might be a tad miffled with our recent foreign advancement so there's that

No no, it's ok the EU will represent you and will protect you from the USA just as it protected France and Germany from America's domination, and fuck the standards we're letting in everyone from Lisbon to Ankara, Moscow is being left out as the only European nation not being enriched by the EU, and just look at what you've done you've banned gays from your tele (not to mention Russia in the EU = no more energy issues)

Basically Sergarr you should be in the EU yesterday, why haven't you joined? Top bigotry from prime shitlord patriarch of constantinople Vladimir the Implyer Putinople

*EDIT
They're doing halal bacon wrong (http://www.halalbeefbacon.co.uk/)
I must revolutionize halal bacon (or get disinterested trying)
It will save Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:32:16 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 25, 2016, 03:22:47 pm

First: I'm not against the EU as a concept. I'm angry because for all that stuff about all being equal in the EU, my perception, and that of many others, is that if you're from Southern Europe, you're not quite as equal (and heavens help you if you're actually from Eastern Europe). Several recent public policy events, as well as certain things I've witnessed, tends to support this view.

And mind you, I'm not even personally targeted by these new policies (in principle. I think. Don't know how far reaching are they though), nor have I born as much xenophobia as others have (probably because I don't look stereotypically southern European... for all practical purposes I'm just a white dude with an unplaceable foreign accent). Still, it is quite annoying to hear people making casual comments in front of you like "OMG so-and-so is such an asshole, he almost seems Spanish!".

So folks being racist is somehow a fault of the EU? Man, that's the first time I hear someone blame the EU for not brainwashing people...

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 25, 2016, 03:22:47 pm

Several recent public policy events, as well as certain things I've witnessed, tends to support this view.

Pray tell, what policy events? Northern EU states taking in a fuckton of refugees even though by law they could simply force the Southern EU countries to take them back? My oh my, what a horrible state of things. You know, we should probably just burn the whole thing down like you suggested recently - that's gonna help with the various countries' egoism for sure. Definitely.

And don't bring the Greece situation into this. Nobody forced Greece to take up loans, inflate its bureaucracy, destroy its capacity to collect taxes, etc etc. From here it looks like we poured a shit-ton of money into Greece out of solidarity and get called Nazis in return. Up here many folks consider the EU an instrument of the South and East to siphon money away from Germany and other Northern states - have you ever considered that they may be just as right as you are?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 04:43:44 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:32:16 pm

So folks being racist is somehow a fault of the EU? Man, that's the first time I hear someone blame the EU for not brainwashing people...

The two are not exclusive: See people who believe they are anti-racists yet are more racist than Hitler due to brainwashing, or ebin EU memes that have forever tarred Greeks and Spaniards as lazy incompetent louts and any melanin in their skin is pure coincidence

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:32:16 pm

Pray tell, what policy events? Northern EU states taking in a fuckton of refugees even though by law they could simply force the Southern EU countries to take them back?

Northern EU states having a piece of paper to tell them to go back and Northern EU states having the ability to force Southern EU countries to take migrants are two different things, if the Northern countries had that capability they would've succeeded in doing so with East slavs

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:32:16 pm

And don't bring the Greece situation into this. Nobody forced Greece to take up loans, inflate its bureaucracy, destroy its capacity to collect taxes, etc etc. From here it looks like we poured a shit-ton of money into Greece out of solidarity and get called Nazis in return. Up here many folks consider the EU an instrument of the South and East to siphon money away from Germany and other Northern states - have you ever considered that they may be just as right as you are?

Take away their ability to alter their currency to boost exports, take away their ability to boost their economy by increasing liquidity and public infrastructure spending, take away their assets and then extend their loan with more loans so they can never escape debt, characterize them as incompetent buffoons who simply were not working hard enough, override their own democratically elected governments (plural, happened multiple times) wishes, humiliate their entire country by reducing their healthcare standards to Nigeria run by Norwegian money?
I can sympathize with people paying the price for their foolishness but this is def a case of joint responsibility and Northern europoors more focused on looking good than doing good, failing to show any solidarity to the southern europeans when forcing them to "pay what they owe" to keep that single state spirit alive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:53:45 pm

I still don't get what the alternative would've been. Just hand over money and trust that the structural problems that led to the crisis will go away on its own? Because it's not like some countries were just magically more vulnerable to the economic crisis of 2008 than others - that shit had reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2016, 10:01:07 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:53:45 pm

I still don't get what the alternative would've been. Just hand over money and trust that the structural problems that led to the crisis will go away on its own?

Nope

Two things would've done them good, giving the birthplace of democracy their democracy back, or sending in Germinators to eradicate the corrupt without making the Greeks all unemployed and incapable of paying back euromoney debts

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:53:45 pm

Because it's not like some countries were just magically more vulnerable to the economic crisis of 2008 than others - that shit had reasons.

This is why Germany needs to be culturally enriched by Islam in order to survive, Muslim banking can't do usury
Dead serious too, the UK we've got Western banking, Jewish banking, Chinese banking, Russian banking, pretty much any dank banking that isn't done by the Swiss to hide smuggled Indonesian public funds into private accounts, and we're the first "non-Muslim" country to sell state Islamic bonds. This is because Islamic banking is unique. It can't be morally used to support degeneracy, and instead of charging interest it charges fixed-rate returns so for example if you got an Islamic mortgage instead of paying interest you'd pay rent (as the bank would be the legal owner) and once you'd pay the full acquisition fee, ownership transfers to you. In short, Muslim wealth today is not based off of physical currency backing or debt creation, but trade and asset creation. Once more I return to the Swiss to see if they have the strength to make their finances work.

SWISSORLAN GO GO GO (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11999966/Switzerland-to-vote-on-banning-banks-from-creating-money.html)

Basically train your newcomers how to be sharia bankers for maximum dankness, your current system will otherwise inevitably result in all of Europe's wealth going on a one-way trip to Frankfurt as the yurpoors have all their shit repossessed to pay for interest on debts they will never be able to repay (without Norwaymoney anyways)

Also I expected our usurious markets to make a little dip but it seems confidence in oil trumps worry in independence (http://www.rttnews.com/2616170/u-k-market-lifted-by-global-cues-brexit-discussion-remains-in-focus.aspx). Market psychology is a weird thing, but I wouldn't read anything into it because it's an inconsistent and at times, insane beast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 27, 2016, 10:22:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2016, 10:01:07 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 25, 2016, 04:53:45 pm

I still don't get what the alternative would've been. Just hand over money and trust that the structural problems that led to the crisis will go away on its own?

Nope

Two things would've done them good, giving the birthplace of democracy their democracy back, or sending in Germinators to eradicate the corrupt without making the Greeks all unemployed and incapable of paying back euromoney debts

Nobody ever took away Greek democracy - the Greek people always had the power to tell their leaders 'Fuck you, and fuck all this shit'. They had that power back when the Greek debt first piled up, they had that power when the Euro was introduced, they had that power when the crisis began. They always had the option of just walking away and leaving the Euro - but they didn't, and nobody forced them.
By the way, I didn't know you were a Eurofederalist - 'sending in Germinators' would've meant the EU taking over part of Greece's, and thus all member states', sovereignity. As you know, that is indeed what I advocate - but I have the nagging suspicion that any move in such a direction would've been decried as imperialist agression and neocolonial exploitation. Which is bullshit, of course - but that's politics for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2016, 12:59:47 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 27, 2016, 10:22:31 am

Nobody ever took away Greek democracy - the Greek people always had the power to tell their leaders 'Fuck you, and fuck all this shit'.

[sensible chuckling]

Quote from: Helgoland on February 27, 2016, 10:22:31 am

They had that power back when the Greek debt first piled up, they had that power when the Euro was introduced, they had that power when the crisis began. They always had the option of just walking away and leaving the Euro - but they didn't, and nobody forced them.
By the way, I didn't know you were a Eurofederalist - 'sending in Germinators' would've meant the EU taking over part of Greece's, and thus all member states', sovereignity.

Yup, fully aware. It could well work, I don't doubt that Germinators would be able to search and destroy tax dodgers and corrupt officials, and when there is a major domestic problem often having neutral foreigners show up to bring everything back in order can do good. Taking away their power to sort themselves out and doing nothing in its place? Nah, that is the worst of both worlds. At least with Germinators when you lose everything you gain something in return, one of the EU's greatest weaknesses is its bloated bureaucracy, but the caveat is bureaucracy exists for a reason - reliable taxation!
Though I suppose it's worth clarifying I don't have a hatred for the Commission out of concept, but out of implementation (with so much bloody deceit!) and the fact that my country is being implemented into it (with so much bloody deceit!). Plus there is the very real possibility that in the upcoming UK referendum that we fail, at which point by virtue of wasted political opportunity democracy will have to be abandoned in favour of autonomy and enlightened bureaucracy/technocracy at which point the serious political position for prosperity will have to be integration and centralization (we are borg), and I also do worry about our country being stabbed in the back by powerful europhiles like Cameron who'd poison our independence just as the Nords did (we are bork). And on the upside with the more BOGOtastic possibility (currently the leave campaign has taken the lead PRAISE BOGO praise bogo (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poll-idUKKCN0VZ2QI)), in order of priority I'd rather see functional European nations than a dysfunctional EUSSR, but if there is no will for that (outside stronk slavs anyways) then I'd rather see a functional EUSSR than a dysfunctional one. Preferably one that focuses more on building themselves up than trying to crush those within and without. Fingers crossed. Optional: They reform as the Roman Empire
I'm also suspicious as to what the EU intends to do with the control over France's hegemony in Africa, but that's another topic entirely
On the issue of setting precedents for surrendering sovereignty of all nation states, I figure no one outside of Eastern Europe will give a shit and the UK will win independence so we'll be fine too (even if we don't, London shekel magic has thwarted all continual efforts by Brussels to take over our finances, and is now having London shekel magic take over Brussels - who is pushing for EU deregulation? London shekel wizards of course, who I assume are trying to blow debt bubbles all over Yurop through a happy alliance with the Commission). That is the sampson option of a UK that fails to win independence. What caused Sweden and Germany to suffer so tremendously? Globalism and cultural marxism fusing together to make the dystopian consumerist gulag lands we live in today, and London is the capital of all of these movements (well, one of them. There are a lot of capitals vying for the title, Stockholm and Berlin included), so the UK can just go full Sweden and outswede the Swedes, we've seen this already with the Portuguese mocking the Germans for being evil racists who are turning back refugees. The hilarious part? Cracked eggs aside, everyone would be happy with this arrangement :D

Though to be fair knowing our luck as soon as we did that Front Nationale would win France and nuke us smh

Quote from: Helgoland on February 27, 2016, 10:22:31 am

As you know, that is indeed what I advocate - but I have the nagging suspicion that any move in such a direction would've been decried as imperialist agression and neocolonial exploitation. Which is bullshit, of course - but that's politics for you.

GERMANS GIVE BACK ROMAN CLAY, REPARATIONS FOR CONSTANTINOPLE NOW, FAKE ROMAN EMPIRE NEVAR 5get

Also how many royalties do you think Greece is owed every time someone uses philosophy or yoghurt?

Necolonial exploitation =/= white people, so you're safe unless the Greeks emphasize their Turkish cred. Also it's pretty much Imperialism just by another name, same way Russia, Turkey, China, even the USA never call their Imperialist exploits by that name (even using anti-Imperialist narratives to justify their Imperialism, just look at the African warlords using post-colonial narratives to conduct colonialism)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on February 27, 2016, 03:21:41 pm

*roots/tentacles/whatever representing American politics burst into the EuroPol thread*

The former leader of Frances right-wing movement endorses Trump (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-jean-marie-le-pen-endorsement-219896) No idea about the current leader (who is the daughter of that guy). :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 27, 2016, 04:38:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2016, 12:59:47 pm

On the issue of setting precedents for surrendering sovereignty of all nation states, I figure no one outside of Eastern Europe will give a shit and the UK will win independence so we'll be fine too (even if we don't, London shekel magic has thwarted all continual efforts by Brussels to take over our finances, and is now having London shekel magic take over Brussels - who is pushing for EU deregulation? London shekel wizards of course, who I assume are trying to blow debt bubbles all over Yurop through a happy alliance with the Commission).

thatcher alive numbr one #1 in londonistan ….fuck the brussels ,..FUCKk ashol german no good. thatcher aliv and real stronk witch kill all german farm aminal with London shekel magic now we the UK rule. ape of the zoo presidant jean-claud junckr fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and brussls wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. UK greattst countrey

In all seriousness, I do – in fact – think that you will "win" the election, one way or another. It's either UK gaining "independence" via Brexit, or UK gaining "independence" via "renegotiation of EU treaties according to real stronk fast rap London shekel magic hahaha we are rich and have shekel because of thatcher."

Or whatever. You're fucking set in any case. Neoliberalism will triumph, no worries m∞.

EDIT:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/boris-johnson-i-will-be-advocating-vote-leave-or-whatever-the-team-is-called/ (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/boris-johnson-i-will-be-advocating-vote-leave-or-whatever-the-team-is-called/)

Quote

This is not about whether you lurv Yurp or not. Actually, I lurv Brussls, I used to live in Brussls – fantastic countrey, wonderful place – and I lurv Yurp kultur and rap magic and whatnot. I consider it to be the greattst countrey this planet has ever produced, and we are all products or most of us here are products of that kultur and it is a fantastik thing but there should be no confusion between the wonders of Yurp and holidays in Yurp and fantastik food and friendschipps and whatever else you get from Yurp – with a politikal projekt that has basically been going on now for decades which UK greattst countrey has been a member of since 1675 and I now think is in real danger of getting out of proper demokratik kontrol. That is my view, and it’s a view I’ve held for a long time – I’ve written a yuge number of articles about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 27, 2016, 07:36:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

1) The EU wouldn't let them in because it's a dictatorship in all but name

2) They don't have any real interest in joining the EU anyway.

3) NATO would flip their collective shit and cry to Junkers or whatever.

4) Glorious soviet Russian pride

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2016, 07:46:43 pm

Not necessarily of relevance to the rest of the EU, but Fianna Fail (aka, the party that fucked up the country) seem to be making their comeback into Irish politics. It was inevitable, but I was hoping it'd take somewhat longer than this for people to take them back. And current percentages are making a three party government a distinct possibility, which hasn't exactly worked out well before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 27, 2016, 08:43:57 pm

question: according to wikipedia, both major political parties in Ireland are centre right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2016, 10:01:26 pm

It's... a weird situation. Most of their policies are very similar and they actually originally were the same party. They split over a disagreement that's no longer relevant (FF's founders boycotted the government rather than swear an oath to the king of England while still part of the Commonwealth) but they're unlikely to ever get back together or even form a coalition government because of the civil war. They've remained the big political players for pretty much the same reason I guess, and the Irish mentality is generally ill-inclined towards supporting newer parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 27, 2016, 10:24:24 pm

I'm reading up on the matter right now... I was really unfamiliar with Irish history and politics except on vague terms....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2016, 11:52:33 pm

Yeah, it all kind of got overshadowed by the WWs I guess. And the British at the time probably wouldn't have been broadcasting it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 28, 2016, 02:57:43 am

I hope the incumbents stay in, because they seem to have been the only government I've ever seen perform austerity measures correctly ( A temporary set of cuts to ease the immediate strain, which are then slowly reversed as the country recovers.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Hey, I finally read LW's pentapost! Wasn't that interesting TBH, although quite readable. I think part of the issue is that he seems to assume I was advocating collapsing the UK through trade war (hence his argument about Napolean). I'm not. The EU doesn't want to start a trade war. If it wanted to, it couldn't (WTO rules, no institutional tools to do so), and even if it could, it wouldn't turn the UK into a third world country. It would cause a massive recessions in the short term (even if you can trade with the rest of the world, it takes time to re-adjust trade pattern) and it would make the UK poorer in the long run, but that's it.

I'm still not sure where you started on that tangent, since no one adocated a trade war. All I see is you citing an unnamed MP who said that some German bureaucrat said so. Given the context and the undirect way this citation came from, I'd take this with a mountain of salt.



Norway

What you terms "humanitarian money" is contributions to various EU agencies and structural European funds. By the same token, the UK's contribution to the EU are also humanitarian (maybe you should include that in your massive aid budget  :P). In any case, they amount to more or less what the Norwegians would be paying as a member, in the word of their own European Affais minister. (http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/norway-minister-brexit-debate-overlooked-impact-on-foreign-policy-security/)

German Fiscal Situation

That report is all very nice, but you're comparing apples to orange. Every western country got unfunded pensions liability. My claim was that Germany's situation was better than the UK (I didn't cite a source for my numbers since I got them from the table at the end of my paper version of the Economist. It is true that the pension issue is going to be less in the UK than Germany, both because the UK are on average a younger country (although that might be changing depending on how immigration goes, and because UK pensions are less generous. I've just spent 15 minutes looking, and found a couple papers that do back your claim (This one (http://www.bis.org/ifc/publ/ifcb28y.pdf) for exemple put unfunded pensions liabilities of 228% of GDP to 2050 for Germany vs. 146 % for the UK. However they all use data from before the financial crisis and the ballooning of UK debt. (https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=ds22a34krhq5p_&met_y=gd_pc_gdp&idim=country:uk:fr:de&hl=en&dl=en) If you have some more recent numbers I'd love them.

Of course, there are so many variable (growth rate, whether Scotland stays, etc etc) that it's hard to judge for certain.

Actually, I should probably make an effort of explaining my position better so you don't waste another hour on Napoleonic strategy. I'm pro-EU. I think that it's better, both for the UK and the rEU if a Brexit doesn't happen (although as a good leftie part of me relish the kind of good financial standards we could enact once Dave is not there to act as the City's lobbyist-in-chief.)

However, I don't think it's going to be a catastrophy either if the UK leaves. The UK is probably the EU country that is the most able to stand on its own on the international stage. It's an island, which means it is less integrated with its neighbours than, say, my own Belgium. It has enough clout to not be entirely irrelevant on its own, including a decent military. The Commonwealth gives it ties with many countries that do not go through the EU.

I still think the UK would see its influence diminish, and its economy will be slightly smaller that it would otherwise have been, but it's not going to be the end of the world. And maybe we can improve that lumbering monster a bit faster once the UK is not there. The Commissions will move closer to being truly elected (Cameron was the only major EU leader trying to block the Parliament from having its pick) and we won't have to deal with Britain's endless demands for opt-outs.

Anyway, if I'm wrong, and the UK's economy does collapse, I'll send you aid LW.  :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 12:22:37 pm

Spoiler: spoiler because quick and dirty wall of post (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Hey, I finally read LW's pentapost! Wasn't that interesting TBH, although quite readable. I think part of the issue is that he seems to assume I was advocating collapsing the UK through trade war (hence his argument about Napolean). I'm not. The EU doesn't want to start a trade war. If it wanted to, it couldn't (WTO rules, no institutional tools to do so), and even if it could, it wouldn't turn the UK into a third world country. It would cause a massive recessions in the short term (even if you can trade with the rest of the world, it takes time to re-adjust trade pattern) and it would make the UK poorer in the long run, but that's it. I'm still not sure where you started on that tangent, since no one adocated a trade war. All I see is you citing an unnamed MP who said that some German bureaucrat said so. Given the context and the undirect way this citation came from, I'd take this with a mountain of salt.

Unless you're Gunther Krichbaum I'm not worried about you, and again stop making assumptions on what I say and just read what I say. The German EU minister threatened one of our MP with trade war and I explicitly said I was not counting on international law here on the basis that it is flaunted at will, so instead I looked at the numbers to see what the numbers said. And it would not cause massive recessions in the short term for the UK, it would do so for Germany - our trade pattern is with the world and increasing. It wouldn't make the UK poorer, but it would reduce chance for economic growth in Central and Western Europe, not the world. I also did take it with a pinch of salt on the basis I suspected Gunther was just personally trying to threaten one of my country's politicians, instead of threatening my entire country. I don't take threats at all to be signs of friendly intent.

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Norway
What you terms "humanitarian money" is contributions to various EU agencies and structural European funds.

Paid directly to southern and eastern european countries to reduce income inequality on the behest of a progressive government? I included their contributions to the EU m9, they're in different categories, bilateral aid is just that

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

By the same token, the UK's contribution to the EU are also humanitarian (maybe you should include that in your massive aid budget  ).

Not so much the UK, but a lot of Germany's aid budget is swallowed up by the EU and a lot of their EU budget is swallowed up by aid
There is some merit into looking into this, but I am not a bureaucrat and tracking down all those numbers I'm not even sure they can do. Shit is a mess!

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

In any case, they amount to more or less what the Norwegians would be paying as a member, in the word of their own European Affais minister. (http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/norway-minister-brexit-debate-overlooked-impact-on-foreign-policy-security/)

Yeah, as I said, this is because the Norwegian government signed their people up for all the obligations of a member even when their people twice voted against them. I'm not sure if that's in the original pentuple post, but I certainly remarked on that more recently, in how Norway was stabbed in the back and is more integrated even than Ireland or the UK. Can't get any more scummy than secretly signing away your country after your people twice tell you to stop :/
Heck you're asking me to take German ministers with a mountain of salt, yet take the word for the politicians who sold their country in secret? That's cold, colder than the refugees fleeing Finland

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

German Fiscal Situation
That report is all very nice, but you're comparing apples to orange. Every western country got unfunded pensions liability. My claim was that Germany's situation was better than the UK (I didn't cite a source for my numbers since I got them from the table at the end of my paper version of the Economist.

Just quote the numbers, the issue and the page. The economist are usually pretty good in having online mirrors as well

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

It is true that the pension issue is going to be less in the UK than Germany, both because the UK are on average a younger country (although that might be changing depending on how immigration goes, and because UK pensions are less generous. I've just spent 15 minutes looking, and found a couple papers that do back your claim (This one (http://www.bis.org/ifc/publ/ifcb28y.pdf) for exemple put unfunded pensions liabilities of 228% of GDP to 2050 for Germany vs. 146 % for the UK. However they all use data from before the financial crisis and the ballooning of UK debt. (https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=ds22a34krhq5p_&met_y=gd_pc_gdp&idim=country:uk:fr:de&hl=en&dl=en) If you have some more recent numbers I'd love them.

I'll look into it later, right next to Germany's aid everywhere :D

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Of course, there are so many variable (growth rate, whether Scotland stays, etc etc) that it's hard to judge for certain.

Generally speaking just assume if Scotland leave = yes: UK leave = Sweden

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Actually, I should probably make an effort of explaining my position better so you don't waste another hour on Napoleonic strategy.

I'm not arguing with you m9 I'm making my own case, and Napoleonic strategy is reborn today in German realpolitik reborn today, and just like yesterday, it is a poor strategy

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

I'm pro-EU. I think that it's better, both for the UK and the rEU if a Brexit doesn't happen (although as a good leftie part of me relish the kind of good financial standards we could enact once Dave is not there to act as the City's lobbyist-in-chief.)

Dave can't do shit m8y, it's the shekel wizards you don't know, and it's the shekel wizards of the world who have no loyalty to any country to most fear

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

However, I don't think it's going to be a catastrophy either if the UK leaves. The UK is probably the EU country that is the most able to stand on its own on the international stage. It's an island, which means it is less integrated with its neighbours than, say, my own Belgium. It has enough clout to not be entirely irrelevant on its own, including a decent military. The Commonwealth gives it ties with many countries that do not go through the EU.
I still think the UK would see its influence diminish, and its economy will be slightly smaller that it would otherwise have been, but it's not going to be the end of the world. And maybe we can improve that lumbering monster a bit faster once the UK is not there. The Commissions will move closer to being truly elected (Cameron was the only major EU leader trying to block the Parliament from having its pick) and we won't have to deal with Britain's endless demands for opt-outs.

How will the EU centralize when it has scared Russia and Israel and the Visegrad group? Methinks you need to redo two speed Yurop, for fast integration of the likes of Germany, France, Sweden, Italy, Belgium e.t.c. and then more autonomy for the more anxious countries of southern and eastern urop

Quote from: smjjames on February 27, 2016, 03:21:41 pm

*roots/tentacles/whatever representing American politics burst into the EuroPol thread*
The former leader of Frances right-wing movement endorses Trump (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/donald-trump-jean-marie-le-pen-endorsement-219896) No idea about the current leader (who is the daughter of that guy). :P

The old leader is pretty old far-right nationalist (he got expelled from the party by his daughter after making Holocaust denial or something IIRC), whereas his daughter ebin le pen is pretty much the only Trump we have in Europe, in character, beliefs and strategy

She scares a lot of people, and inspires a lot of people to scare the former people
Not sure if she wants walls, as I think that's Orban's turf, but she def wants to ramp up the repatriation

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 27, 2016, 04:38:05 pm

thatcher alive numbr one #1 in londonistan ….fuck the brussels ,..FUCKk ashol german no good. thatcher aliv and real stronk witch kill all german farm aminal with London shekel magic now we the UK rule. ape of the zoo presidant jean-claud junckr fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and brussls wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. UK greattst countrey

hahahahah we have no gold now because brown haha
Oh wait, that's bad
SWISSORLLAND IGV BAK GOLD

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 27, 2016, 04:38:05 pm

In all seriousness, I do – in fact – think that you will "win" the election, one way or another. It's either UK gaining "independence" via Brexit, or UK gaining "independence" via "renegotiation of EU treaties according to real stronk fast rap London shekel magic hahaha we are rich and have shekel because of thatcher."
Or whatever. You're fucking set in any case. Neoliberalism will triumph, no worries m∞.

EDIT:
[spoiler]
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/boris-johnson-i-will-be-advocating-vote-leave-or-whatever-the-team-is-called/ (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/boris-johnson-i-will-be-advocating-vote-leave-or-whatever-the-team-is-called/)

Quote

This is not about whether you lurv Yurp or not. Actually, I lurv Brussls, I used to live in Brussls – fantastic countrey, wonderful place – and I lurv Yurp kultur and rap magic and whatnot. I consider it to be the greattst countrey this planet has ever produced, and we are all products or most of us here are products of that kultur and it is a fantastik thing but there should be no confusion between the wonders of Yurp and holidays in Yurp and fantastik food and friendschipps and whatever else you get from Yurp – with a politikal projekt that has basically been going on now for decades which UK greattst countrey has been a member of since 1675 and I now think is in real danger of getting out of proper demokratik kontrol. That is my view, and it’s a view I’ve held for a long time – I’ve written a yuge number of articles about it.

Maybe, but there is no rest for the BOGO if freedom is to be won

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 10:36:34 am

Anyway, if I'm wrong, and the UK's economy does collapse, I'll send you aid LW.  :)

Women and Greece first! Women and Greece first!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 01:13:23 pm

Dude, what exactly did that Gunthar told which MP?

And how on Earth would the UK not trading with the continent next to it not diminish its long-term growth potential? We can argue with the magnitude of the effect, but arguing that there would be no effect at all? From cutting yourself from the group that makes up about half of your export market?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 28, 2016, 02:07:00 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 27, 2016, 07:36:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2016, 12:57:08 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 25, 2016, 02:11:29 am

I dunno what's so scary about EU, really. Do you expect it to go full Stalin on you and your nations after it takes FULL CONTROL, or what?

Sergarr why hasn't Russia joined the EU there is nothing to fear

1) The EU wouldn't let them in because it's a dictatorship in all but name

Counter-point: Orban

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 27, 2016, 07:36:05 pm

2) They don't have any real interest in joining the EU anyway.

but muh free eu money

and True European Seal of Approval too

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 27, 2016, 07:36:05 pm

4) Glorious soviet Russian pride

dude most of russians that I know of would consider Russia joining EU as being worth of much more pride than, say, the current lol-alliance with China (Chinese people are really really disliked by most Russians, I must say). "European quality" is synonymous with "Excellent-and-usually-better-than-anything-ours quality" over here, you know. The "Russia has its own way" crowd has been so intellectually bankrupt as to have produced no coherent point outside of dreadful religious garbage over hundreds of years for which they existed in Russian society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 28, 2016, 03:06:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 01:13:23 pm

And how on Earth would the UK not trading with the continent next to it not diminish its long-term growth potential?

Not on Earth, obviously.

Spoiler: allow me to explain... (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/knlzhRP.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 28, 2016, 03:32:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 12:22:37 pm

whereas his daughter ebin le pen is pretty much the only Trump we have in Europe, in character, beliefs and strategy

Nah that would be Geert Wilders. He even has a similarily hilarious blonde coupe.

Wilders went to America on invitation of Frank Gaffney.
Wilders held some speeches and presented his anti-muslim film "Fitna" to Congress in 2009, the next day he spoke for the National Press Club, and the day after he was guest of honour at the CPAC (a yearly conference of conservatives).
Back then in 2009, even right-wing conservatives thought him to be a little bit too radical, and too anti-muslim.

In 2015 Wilders revisited Washington, and appeared in a press conference with Republican members of congress, organized by Gaffney, on the steps of the Capitol.
Wilders said then "I warn the United States. Don't think that what happens now in Europe, will not happen in the US. Because it will. (...) Muslim migrants are the Trojan horse, the jihadists are amongst us!"

Not sure if Trump was present there, and personally met Wilders, but he has nearly literally copy-pasted and used that speech Wilders gave, as his own, as well as copied Wilder's media personality.

Everytime I see Trump, it's like watching an American remake of a Dutch tv show.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 04:00:17 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 01:13:23 pm

Dude, what exactly did that Gunthar told which MP?

Dude, I've already posted this so many times

Quote from: Sheb on February 28, 2016, 01:13:23 pm

And how on Earth would the UK not trading with the continent next to it not diminish its long-term growth potential? We can argue with the magnitude of the effect, but arguing that there would be no effect at all? From cutting yourself from the group that makes up about half of your export market?

DOOD
The reason why I posted numbers and not opinions is because facts cannot be disputed. Look at the trade patterns, the majority of the UK's export do not go to Europe, they go to the rest of the world - and this trend is increasing as Europe cannot grow as quickly as possible as the the burgeoning economies around the world.

I'm not arguing there'd be no effect (how do you read this, stop making assumptions on what I say and just read what I say?), the EU cannot stop the UK from trading with Europe, and it's increasingly frustrating to have to keep responding with the same facts because no one gives a shit to actually read what the numbers are. Just so many people going "yeah well this will happen, I have no facts to show this is what will happen, but it will" whilst the facts are right there!

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

Spoiler: edited the most relevant numbers in regards to trade (click to show/hide)

Drop the shekels, trade war now
I'm requoting this: 'It is impossible for the EU to launch a trade war against a departing member under World Trade Organization rules, (...) not that French wine producers or German car manufacturers would allow their governments to threaten access to a market as important as the UK anyway.'
Now I hinge nothing on international law, as it has always been mocked and flaunted whenever convenient and I don't doubt this would be any different. Now here is where the numbers come in:
Germany exported to the UK $105,122,552,228, the UK exported to Germany $51,158,697,462. (http://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/germany/tradestats) That means Germany is profiting $54,000,000,000 off of Anglo-German trade. If they try to impose trade barriers, they are kicking the cactus field - and its their own cacti, because that $54,000,000,000 stops going to Germany, and starts going to the USA, to BRIC, to MINT, to the Commonwealth (it is honestly much easier to list the countries we're not trading with than to list the ones we are). The UK will still get her imports but Germany will not be getting sterling, and will have to look attract buyers from elsewhere. I do not think they will bother with the effort unless they believe depriving themselves of $50B a year hurts the UK :P
Just look at the statistics (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/uktrade/uk-trade/june-2015/stb-uk-trade--june-2015.html), less and less British goods (British exports to the EU between May and June even fell $300,000,000 in just one month) because Europe just does not offer us nearly as many opportunities to grow as actually growing economies across the sea. Meanwhile imports rose as European manufacturers have had trouble finding customers like the UK who are nearby, wealthy and buying! If you do not understand how this works, it is the person with the money who has the leverage here, not the person producing the products. Germany dominates the EU and makes the EU fit their agenda, and Germany is much more dependent upon British customers than the other way around. It's very simple - British customers can go abroad to every continent in the world, German products cannot.

The UK cannot survive without EU imports.
This is a sneaky one. This argument hinges on the notion that the UK will somehow be isolated from all EU imports and the EU will be able to stop French wine makers from selling wine to the UK and German car manufacturers from selling German cars to the UK e.t.c.
An independent UK would set its own tariffs and would decide on its own whether it wants to charge French wine makers to export to the UK (which it wouldn't, seeing as the UK is the sixth biggest consumer of wine in the world). French wine is perhaps the most significant leverage Germany could ever hope to hold, because the UK can survive entirely independent of EU imports in all things except French wine. In all other cases the UK can just import from another country or just use their domestic industry, but even with recent climate change allowing for excellent domestic UK champagne on a par with champagne from champagne, the brand image, the tradition and the scale of French winemaking is without parallel. Simply put, France holds a monopoly on French Wine. The most damage that a post-UK EU could possibly inflict on the UK is doing something like imposing a Britwine duty tax on any wine leaving France for Britain to try and raise the price of exporting wine to the UK and force French winemakers to sell more to Germany, the Netherlands, the USA and China. Assuming they also closed any Serbia-esque loopholes where the UK didn't just import French wine through Belgium or Ireland, this would quickly become a wine war between British drinkers and French producers. When it comes to chemical stimulants the rules of free trade do not apply the same way :D
It is notable I think, that the UK's eurosceptics drink beer and ale, whilst our europhiles drink wine and champagne.
So to summarize, the EU would not be able to stop European countries from exporting to the UK without damaging those countries whilst leaving the UK unscathed. With one exception - stopping French wine. Currently this is no issue for the UK as global wine sales have fallen leaving France even more dependent upon UK consumption, but if France managed to reduce her wine dependency on the UK (maybe just double up domestic drinking?) this one is achievable, and would raise prices on UK wine and result in thousands of cases of horrible sobriety.

The EU could make life difficult for British exporters.
This one is much easier for the EU to do, they may not be able to stop Europeans from exporting to the UK but they can at the very least try and discourage British manufacturers from exporting to the EU with extra regulations, tariffs and paper just for the lols. It would help employ more EU bureaucrats too, cos Arkad knows the EU doesn't have enough bureaucrats :D
Just looking at the import/export statistics of the UK's top trading partners is gleeful:
http://i.imgur.com/2LiI0ro.png
Non-German countries offer us more already without any of the hassle, and any nation that sides with Germany's politicians on this can be cut out of the equation quite easily, exception being Ireland where we already have preexisting free trade deals and citizen benefits which predate the European Union's existence. Well, we already have a lot of free trade deals with Europe, given history and all, but again let's not take anything for granted and assume only by the numbers, as as we've accepted international law is sadly flaunted at will by design or accident.
Let us look at the numbers:

Quote

In the last few years we have made a huge difference and built a much stronger bilateral trading relationship between our countries. The figures tell the story - bilateral trade at record levels, our exports to China up 15% in 2013, they have more than doubled in the last 5 years and at £1 billion a month, they are growing faster than France or Germany.
These figures prove once again that Britain is the most open economy in the EU, the most welcoming to Chinese investment including in our nuclear industry and our infrastructure and I’m determined to keep it that way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals

The top exports of the United Kingdom are: Cars ($40.7B), Refined Petroleum ($29.8B), Crude Petroleum ($22.7B), Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B), Gas Turbines ($17.2B)
Its top imports are: Cars ($40.3B), Crude Petroleum ($39.6B), Refined Petroleum ($28.8B), Packaged Medicaments ($18B), Computers ($16.2B)
The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are: United States ($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B), Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)
The top import origins are: Germany ($88.8B), China ($55.2B), the Netherlands ($52.1B), France ($39B), United States ($37.8B)
Most of our cars and engines go to three countries in particular, the USA, Germany and China. Germany may actually be able to profit here by trying to impose restrictions on British engines entering Europe in favour of German car engines, just as long as Germany manages their carbon emissions scandal. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772) Yet the EU cannot stop us from exporting to the rest of the world which offers more profit anyways, resulting in the situation where export to China increased to $18,070,724,927, to India increased to $3,911,180,179, and trade with the rest of
BRIC (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=0efe9346-ff22-4362-84b9-1e2362b9660b) and
MINT (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=4738dca7-b304-4f4f-b00d-5e0f9223bdeb) is healthy. Except with Russia, where trade pretty much halved, but sanctions and all you know.

But they could right?
The EU could make life hard for UK exporters within Europe to try and discourage them and encourage local competition, this has good chances of helping European industries avoid British competition (French nuclear vs British nuclear, German cars vs British cars comes to mind), but UK exporters are increasingly exporting outside of the EU, the countries we export to within the EU we already have free trade deals with. That is also assuming the European Union possesses the mechanisms to actually restrict British exports, given just how much Chinese steel has made a mockery of Europe's struggling steel industries (I told you Covenant, I warned you bro, if the UK had not moved on from steel a long time ago we'd be in the same boat as Germany today). Nothing is impossible though, so on the offchance Germany tries to restrict British exports to Europe she will have to give the British market share in German energy to Russia, and she possesses no naval force capable of stopping British exports from going across the world, so there is nothing stopping Britain from using Turkey/Ireland/Switzerland/Norway, hell even Russia, Israel or Ukraine to export British goods to Europe, and there is nothing stopping Britain from merely exporting more to the Americas, to Africa, or any of the burgeoning economies all across Asia. Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014. However, the stronger export growth to non-EU countries has resulted in the proportion of UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html). Simply put the much faster growth found elsewhere than within the EU has meant already the economies of the globe are more important to the United Kingdoms. I don't believe the EU under a fully centralized nation state that has abolished all national democracy completely would even be able to stop British exports to Europe just as Napoleon failed to despite having his Berlin decree backed by more than words - he had the greatest military force of his time at his disposal. And from the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014? We're better off in the sun and the tropics where the real shekels are at.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

Spoiler: most relevant (click to show/hide)

Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014. However, the stronger export growth to non-EU countries has resulted in the proportion of UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html).

This is also at a time when the EU is increasingly being hampered by Chinese commodities forcing European manufacturers into bankruptcy, if the EU fails to stop Chinese steel from flooding Europe, German steel is pretty fucked or else even more dependent upon British consumption

*EDIT
It would be quite poetic for the union that propelled itself from economic cooperation through coal and steel to political domination through supremacy and subversion to be placed into the coalfires by the might of Chinese steel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 28, 2016, 04:11:30 pm

LW if you think that having greater manufacturing is equivalent to having greater political power, you must logically therefore think that most developing countries have greater political power than developed ones due to their cheap labour allowing developed countries to outsource most of their industries

and that's obviously not true

finances and technology are where real political power is at

come on LW you should know that as citizen of the country which has been most characterized by transitioning into financial sector ~40 years ago

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 04:51:04 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 28, 2016, 04:11:30 pm

LW if you think that having greater manufacturing is equivalent to having greater political power, you must logically therefore think that most developing countries have greater political power than developed ones due to their cheap labour allowing developed countries to outsource most of their industries
and that's obviously not true

Power is power, money is money, money is a multiplier of anything you want including power, but the two are distinct - India, the USA and China all offer great opportunities for wealth but are all on differing levels of power, with India being very decentralized, China very localized, and USA exceptional. The two usually follow, but not necessarily always, notably for example France and the UK are nations that could abandon all notions of power projection to just adopt SWISSORLAN MAGIC and make gold appear for days. Also, a lot to be said about Greece. In short, I do not think greater manufacturing is equivalent to political power, or else the UK would have little and China has already won. Political power is political power

Quote from: Sergarr on February 28, 2016, 04:11:30 pm

finances and technology are where real political power is at

londonistan shekel magic rap fast make bubbles pop

Quote from: Sergarr on February 28, 2016, 04:11:30 pm

come on LW you should know that as citizen of the country which has been most characterized by transitioning into financial sector ~40 years ago

One of the great innovations we figured out when doing so is that we figured out when given the choice between more money and even more money you should pick both choices, and failing that, pick the latter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on February 29, 2016, 12:17:46 am

Damn you Loud Whispers

I'm supposed to be writing a cultural event essay, and I can't get your cheeki banter out of my head

Every time I read the prompt about explaining why it was culturally enriching I see your avatar putting on a troll face

You bastard you planned this all along

This was you enriching me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 29, 2016, 01:05:54 am

Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched           ☑

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on February 29, 2016, 01:16:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 29, 2016, 01:05:54 am

Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑

Adding [tt] and [/tt] around it allows the checkboxes to line up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on February 29, 2016, 02:03:53 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 04:00:17 pm

I'm not arguing there'd be no effect (how do you read this, stop making assumptions on what I say and just read what I say?), the EU cannot stop the UK from trading with Europe, and it's increasingly frustrating to have to keep responding with the same facts because no one gives a shit to actually read what the numbers are. Just so many people going "yeah well this will happen, I have no facts to show this is what will happen, but it will" whilst the facts are right there!

Quote

And it would not cause massive recessions in the short term for the UK, it would do so for Germany - our trade pattern is with the world and increasing. It wouldn't make the UK poorer

That sounded a lot like "we don't care". Saying that loosing half of your export market overnight wouldn't cause a massive recessions strikes me a very dubious. And yes, I know that proportion is slowly shrinking as the rest of the world get richer. But it's still massive! Also, your directly state "it wouldn't make the UK poorer. That sounds a lot like you're arguing there'd be no effect.

I'm all for not making assumptions about what you're saying, but then stop saying stuff you don't mean.

As for our friend Gunther Krichbaum, I actually searched in the thread for every mention you made of him. Not once did you link a source.

Quote

The responses to this are surprising coming from a pro-EU newspaper, after one of our MPs leaked a delightful conversation with Germany's EU Affairs Chairman Gunther Krichbaum where Gunther Krichbaum threatened the UK with trade war and economic collapse during a meeting. Understanding that Gunther Krichbaum was just probably trying to intimidate him personally, our good ol' MP decided to make this statement public.

Quote

France is not threatening us with trade war, Portugal is not threatening us with trade war, Denmark is not, Poland is not, Hungary is not, Austria is not, Spain is not, Italy is not e.t.c.
Only German ministers, with Gunther Krichbaum being a repeat offender.

And a couple of other bants. So what exactly did that chairman of the Bundestag commitee tell what MP?

Also, reading back, why do you systematically ignore that trade relations are negotiated at the EU level?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 29, 2016, 04:25:11 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 29, 2016, 02:03:53 am

That sounded a lot like "we don't care". Saying that loosing half of your export market overnight wouldn't cause a massive recessions strikes me a very dubious. And yes, I know that proportion is slowly shrinking as the rest of the world get richer. But it's still massive! Also, your directly state "it wouldn't make the UK poorer. That sounds a lot like you're arguing there'd be no effect.

Perhaps you've mistaken my disregard for the scenario as a disregard for good living. I do quite care, I don't have any financial incentive in seeking poverty. I just reject the notion of a trade war or such an extreme example as total collapse of trade as even realistic, same way I do not give any credence to a military strike upon the UK. In an alternate reality where the Commission actually wields the power to halt British exports to the European continent, a situation that has never been successfully carried out upon the British in recorded history once, (the only times where I can find a collapse in trade are during the Great War and WWII, where the UK stopped exporting soap and tea and started exporting shells and bombs), things do not end well for the UK but what matters to me is it ends even worse for the continent. In this scenario where the EU manages to succeed where all others have failed (and that's what that whole Napoleon tangent was about, even with one of the greatest generals, with one of the greatest militaries, with all of Europe including Russia backing them in outright blockading the UK to cause economic collapse - not only failed to stop the UK trading with the Americas, also failed to stop the UK trading with Europe. But again, let's all put that aside. In this apocalyptic scenario where some Brussel shekel wizards manage to halt all UK exports to Europe completely and demand from growing world economies halts because the world economy just so happens to be collapsing at the same time or something, (also removing the financial crutch of London as stocks and forex reserves pop into worthlessness), the humanitarian disaster that would hit the EU alongside the economic one would be sufficient deterrence to such attempts. Consider that Russia has been able to force EU compliance with less interdependence, whilst if it should come to harm the UK what would become of the $100B worth of German imports the UK pays for yearly? It is like watching someone threaten to pull the pin from the grenade whilst they are 20 metres away in order to make me do what they want, I know they will die, I have a chance of surviving. I'd rather they not pull the pin and just work with me, but knowing survival is possible is a confidence booster.

Quote from: Sheb on February 29, 2016, 02:03:53 am

I'm all for not making assumptions about what you're saying, but then stop saying stuff you don't mean.

I say what I mean and you read into it all you can, I'm not exactly Shakespeare here, it's not to be or not to be, it is.

Quote from: Sheb on February 29, 2016, 02:03:53 am

As for our friend Gunther Krichbaum, I actually searched in the thread for every mention you made of him. Not once did you link a source.

Quote

The responses to this are surprising coming from a pro-EU newspaper, after one of our MPs leaked a delightful conversation with Germany's EU Affairs Chairman Gunther Krichbaum where Gunther Krichbaum threatened the UK with trade war and economic collapse during a meeting. Understanding that Gunther Krichbaum was just probably trying to intimidate him personally, our good ol' MP decided to make this statement public.

Quote

France is not threatening us with trade war, Portugal is not threatening us with trade war, Denmark is not, Poland is not, Hungary is not, Austria is not, Spain is not, Italy is not e.t.c.
Only German ministers, with Gunther Krichbaum being a repeat offender.

And a couple of other bants. So what exactly did that chairman of the Bundestag commitee tell what MP?

Also, reading back, why do you systematically ignore that trade relations are negotiated at the EU level?

Goodness gracious, that selective reading. Is this is language barrier or something?

Quote from: Sheb on February 29, 2016, 02:03:53 am

I was greeted by a most unpleasant sight this evening from one of my papers, the Metro. They are pro-EU but it seems this was even too much for them.

If you ask of me to hear you out on quoting from paper-copies of the Economist without delivering on issue and then try to pull this on me whilst deliberately editing out the exact part where I disclose my source, well, you can see why I get the impression that Europol thread does not deserve to be taken seriously when it conducts everything dishonestly
At any rate it's in the recycling, but the BBC does this thing where they talk about headlines in the papers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-35571717), unfortunately they do not cover my paper but they do cover the Daily Mail which also covered the same story online. Generally speaking citing the Daily Mail is bad form unless the lefties are covering for more rapists again, it is worth noting this is the same minister warning that the UK is opening pandora's box and had to be stopped (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/senior-angela-merkel-allies-warn-david-cameron-not-to-blackmail-eu-8446783.html) whilst he himself had to be calmed down by one of his MPs to stop advocating sanctions on Poland to "save" Poles in Poland (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-eu-germany-idUKKCN0UQ16D20160112) when he's not busy telling Cameron he'll get a bloody nose if he curbs immigration unilaterally. He's also in charge of the EU sanctions on Russia. (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/322048.html)
He seems to me to be a bit too sanction happy, he's playing with other peoples' lives and not from a position of victory. Seems odd as well, when everyone criticizes him for meddling in internal affairs, he proves them wrong by threatening their nations with economic destruction if they do not listen to him. The problem with a man whose hands are hammers is that all problems start to look like nails.

Oh, yeah and I'm systematically ignoring the EU's dealings with the USA and China because the UK conducts their own trade relations and the EU's current negotiations have been a dismal failure so far and I'm not sure how long they can keep the periphery placated.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2016, 04:00:17 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2016, 08:44:30 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The EU could make life difficult for British exporters.
This one is much easier for the EU to do, they may not be able to stop Europeans from exporting to the UK but they can at the very least try and discourage British manufacturers from exporting to the EU with extra regulations, tariffs and paper just for the lols. It would help employ more EU bureaucrats too, cos Arkad knows the EU doesn't have enough bureaucrats :D
Just looking at the import/export statistics of the UK's top trading partners is gleeful:
http://i.imgur.com/2LiI0ro.png
Non-German countries offer us more already without any of the hassle, and any nation that sides with Germany's politicians on this can be cut out of the equation quite easily, exception being Ireland where we already have preexisting free trade deals and citizen benefits which predate the European Union's existence. Well, we already have a lot of free trade deals with Europe, given history and all, but again let's not take anything for granted and assume only by the numbers, as as we've accepted international law is sadly flaunted at will by design or accident.
Let us look at the numbers:

Quote

In the last few years we have made a huge difference and built a much stronger bilateral trading relationship between our countries. The figures tell the story - bilateral trade at record levels, our exports to China up 15% in 2013, they have more than doubled in the last 5 years and at £1 billion a month, they are growing faster than France or Germany.
These figures prove once again that Britain is the most open economy in the EU, the most welcoming to Chinese investment including in our nuclear industry and our infrastructure and I’m determined to keep it that way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-china-agree-14-billion-of-trade-and-investment-deals

The top exports of the United Kingdom are: Cars ($40.7B), Refined Petroleum ($29.8B), Crude Petroleum ($22.7B), Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B), Gas Turbines ($17.2B)
Its top imports are: Cars ($40.3B), Crude Petroleum ($39.6B), Refined Petroleum ($28.8B), Packaged Medicaments ($18B), Computers ($16.2B)
The top export destinations of the United Kingdom are: United States ($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B), Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)
The top import origins are: Germany ($88.8B), China ($55.2B), the Netherlands ($52.1B), France ($39B), United States ($37.8B)
Most of our cars and engines go to three countries in particular, the USA, Germany and China. Germany may actually be able to profit here by trying to impose restrictions on British engines entering Europe in favour of German car engines, just as long as Germany manages their carbon emissions scandal. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772) Yet the EU cannot stop us from exporting to the rest of the world which offers more profit anyways, resulting in the situation where export to China increased to $18,070,724,927, to India increased to $3,911,180,179, and trade with the rest of
BRIC (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=0efe9346-ff22-4362-84b9-1e2362b9660b) and
MINT (http://[url=https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=4738dca7-b304-4f4f-b00d-5e0f9223bdeb) is healthy. Except with Russia, where trade pretty much halved, but sanctions and all you know.

But they could right?
The EU could make life hard for UK exporters within Europe to try and discourage them and encourage local competition, this has good chances of helping European industries avoid British competition (French nuclear vs British nuclear, German cars vs British cars comes to mind), but UK exporters are increasingly exporting outside of the EU, the countries we export to within the EU we already have free trade deals with. That is also assuming the European Union possesses the mechanisms to actually restrict British exports, given just how much Chinese steel has made a mockery of Europe's struggling steel industries (I told you Covenant, I warned you bro, if the UK had not moved on from steel a long time ago we'd be in the same boat as Germany today). Nothing is impossible though, so on the offchance Germany tries to restrict British exports to Europe she will have to give the British market share in German energy to Russia, and she possesses no naval force capable of stopping British exports from going across the world, so there is nothing stopping Britain from using Turkey/Ireland/Switzerland/Norway, hell even Russia, Israel or Ukraine to export British goods to Europe, and there is nothing stopping Britain from merely exporting more to the Americas, to Africa, or any of the burgeoning economies all across Asia. Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014. However, the stronger export growth to non-EU countries has resulted in the proportion of UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014 (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html). Simply put the much faster growth found elsewhere than within the EU has meant already the economies of the globe are more important to the United Kingdoms. I don't believe the EU under a fully centralized nation state that has abolished all national democracy completely would even be able to stop British exports to Europe just as Napoleon failed to despite having his Berlin decree backed by more than words - he had the greatest military force of his time at his disposal. And from the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014? We're better off in the sun and the tropics where the real shekels are at.

Note well! Independent trade relations at work here! Also note well! Our trade relations fit our country, and are not forced upon countries to whom it would actually harm!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2016, 06:11:03 pm

The Leave Campaign has started to eat itself which will mean relations after the referendum between North and South, Tory and Tory and Cameron and Left is going to be fucking fantastic (well, if you like interesting politics). Salmon publicly rebuked Cameron for leading a campaign of fear, for which he got haranged by his own cabinet - and Salmon delivered a horrendous smackdown "you don't have a 20 point lead to squander anymore"

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2016, 06:26:31 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 01, 2016, 06:19:00 pm

Wasn't it the Sturgeon General who said that, or are you implying he's pulling her strings?

Oh wait, yeah that's who I meant. I sometimes confuse the two after hours of making fish puns.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/29/sturgeon-camerons-eu-deal-is-underwhelming-for-undecided-voters

Quote from: Covenant on March 01, 2016, 06:19:00 pm

Also I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Moscow thing from yesterday. Though I suppose it's not EU enough.

Now Russia is joining in on the West's tradition of maintaining social cohesion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35697826)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: mainiac on March 01, 2016, 06:34:21 pm

Not sure why a murder needs to be national news anyway.  So I guess the issue is more with the other non stories they made into news then with this one not being news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: nenjin on March 01, 2016, 07:18:59 pm

To be fair, it's lurid even by Russian standards. It combines violence against children, a truly gruesome and a public showing of it...and a passing, crazy reference to terrorism on top of it. It would have easily made national headlines here. Why you expect the Russians to downplay it or treat it as normal, I'm not sure. But even setting aside the act itself, the message one can take away from her ramblings is enough to be of consequence everyone.

Or it's just a lurid murder story that made national attentions. News at 11.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2016, 11:05:09 pm

Quote from: mainiac on March 01, 2016, 06:34:21 pm

Not sure why a murder needs to be national news anyway.  So I guess the issue is more with the other non stories they made into news then with this one not being news.

Because jihadis beheading children and setting peoples' homes on fire is not an ordinary occurrence in Moscow, this is not exactly your average murder (with most murders being news worthy on the local level minimum, serial killers and public murders national level and especially shocking murders international). Sort of like that guy who was cooked to death in the kayak furnace by accident or the two Russian kids who died in the boiling sewer, only this time it wasn't an accident and it was done by a jihadi at a time where jihadis are highly relevant to the old world due to a recent spike in beheadings on our streets

Also a kid victim

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 02, 2016, 01:21:19 am

Better chalk this one up to workplace violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 02, 2016, 02:12:15 am

Greece has filed a request for humanitarian aid with the EU. They want 300 million euros right now, another 200 million in 2017, and another in 2018, to cope with the refugees, and prevent the country from gliding into chaos and malaise.
If the EU approves, it would be the first time that the EU sends humanitarian aid to a member state.


In the past two months, 120 thousand migants have arrived in Greece. That is 30 times more than arrived in the same period last year, of which most are stuck in Greece, since it's neigboring states have closed their borders. Even more refugees are expected to come when spring arrives, and better weather makes crossing the mediterranean easier.

The Greekish prime minister Tsipras has threatened that if countries like Macedonia, Bulgaria, Slovania and Austria do not re-open their borders, from now on Greece will block any and every EU proposal.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/griekenland-bezwijkt-onder-migranten-700-miljoen-euro-nodig~a4254982/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/griekenland-bezwijkt-onder-migranten-700-miljoen-euro-nodig~a4254982/)

In b4 Greece invades neighbouring countries with tractors and bulldozers to get rid of the fences

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 02:42:02 am

And then, somehow, this will be the EU's fault.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 03:08:58 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2016, 02:32:38 am

So now we have to give Greece even more cash? Can't we just get Orban to go over there and teach them how to keep people out of their country?

Yeah, what were those lazy Greeks thinking by having 13,000 km of coastline and geographic proximity to most of the origin areas for refugees?

What do you want them to do, rediscover Greek fire and start lobbing it at migrant rafts?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 03:09:34 am

Build a wall across the Aegean and get the Syrians to pay for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 02, 2016, 08:37:43 am

The greeks clearly should immigrate to Germany to further culturally enrich it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 02, 2016, 09:17:03 am

Quote from: Teneb on March 02, 2016, 08:37:43 am

The greeks clearly should immigrate to Germany to further culturally enrich it.

Nah, all Orthodox Christians should migrate to Russia, Germany is a Muslim land

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 02, 2016, 09:41:11 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2016, 02:32:38 am

So now we have to give Greece even more cash? Can't we just get Orban to go over there and teach them how to keep people out of their country?

Anyway, screw being blackmailed by the Greeks. If they're foolish enough to let half of NAME into their country, they can deal with the consequences, and we'll redirect our own efforts to our own borders.

The whole EU project is going to collapse in flames at this rate, and as far as I'm concerned the saddest thing about it is that Eurovision might diminish in quality somewhat.

So the EU is willing to pay Turkey a 4 billion ransom, but can't help a fellow state with the expenses forced on them by Merkel's open invitation?

If Greece could somehow block the refugees, the immigrants would have just found another way in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 02, 2016, 12:05:35 pm

Maybe the eurozone would be less cagey about dumping a quarter-billion into Greece if they hadn't spent the last decade giving them over 2,000 times that amount with no appreciable effect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 12:20:27 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 02, 2016, 12:05:35 pm

Maybe the eurozone would be less cagey about dumping a quarter-billion into Greece if they hadn't spent the last decade giving them over 2,000 times that amount with no appreciable effect.

That's a fair cop, but making Greece basically one giant refugee camp and then saying "you guys are bad with money, so fuck you" does not help the situation. Send EU humanitarian aid with EU oversight to make sure it's spent properly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 02, 2016, 12:30:01 pm

Considering that during the previous decade subsequent Greek goverments were being advised in regards to concealing the country's actual financial situation (as to meet the otherwise unreachable EU goals) by Goldman Sach, which at that point had Mario Draghi of later EU fame as one of the main executives.... well. It kind of reminds you of something (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME)

He denies knowing anything about what was taking place. Of course he does. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-06-14/draghi-says-he-knew-nothing-about-goldman-greece-deal-1-)

This people kind of people who want us to believe that they're both very smart and yet somehow utterly stupid at the same time have always amused me in some sad way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 12:33:13 pm

Do you expect an executive at Goldman Sachs to know everything the bank is doing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 02, 2016, 12:50:57 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 12:33:13 pm

Do you expect an executive at Goldman Sachs to know everything the bank is doing?

Probably not, but something with massive implications for international politics, not to mention the bank itself? I don't buy it. Something this important passing under his radar is either massive incompetence or deliberate ignorance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2016, 01:18:34 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2016, 02:32:38 am

So now we have to give Greece even more cash? Can't we just get Orban to go over there and teach them how to keep people out of their country?

Even with advisors they are actually too poor to do anything. So yes, if you want to stop this crisis at the European frontier. I remember having a conversation with an old dinosaur lefitst MP from Ireland, which was a very rare conversation I got to have, in which he said the EU would never let Greece leave as it was vital to their external border. But today that border is non-existent.

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2016, 02:32:38 am

Anyway, screw being blackmailed by the Greeks. If they're foolish enough to let half of NAME into their country, they can deal with the consequences, and we'll redirect our own efforts to our own borders.

You must be aware that Greece's situation is highly volatile. Their country lives in the shadow of devastating civil war between leftist and rightists (the whole street wars between the communists and fascists still goes on today), they suddenly have lots of unemployed soldiers and foreign jihadis on their streets and millions of unemployed Greeks and foreigners trapped on their islands with neither wanting the other there. They are dealing with the consequences and the Greeks don't want them there, but they're kinda out of options and going the Orban route could empower their far-right faction and lead to civil war between globalist and nationalist Greeks.
Consider it has not been long since Golden Dawn were expelled from their parliament for calling their defence ministers traitors for not stopping the refugee crisis hitting Greece. (http://www.ekathimerini.com/206173/article/ekathimerini/news/armed-forces-chief-hits-back-at-golden-dawn) The thing is is that irregardless of their economic situation forcing their compliance into German policy they are not capable of stopping this crisis on their own in any case. Earlier I talked of how India and China despite being so wealthy still need foreign aid because their tax base is too small and their wealth concentrated in the hands of the powerful, for Greece there is a similar situation only in this case it is to do with how hard it is to control Greece by virtue of its mountainous and decentralized country - it is very much like India, with lots of development being done on the inefficient municipal level. Greece has normally had one of the most formidable air forces and navies in Europe for quite some time and would have normally been able to stop this themselves, but their armed forces have usually always been funded for by some foreign power going as far back to the British Empire until today, when the Americans stopped funding them in Europe to refocus on Asia and an expanding China in the South China Sea.
Likewise the scale of human trafficking is quite sophisticated, I was bemused to hear from someone who knew some retired captains (the most reliable of sources, heh) why the Royal Navy (UK) withdrew from human trafficking patrols was that someone had given them their radio and they had their frequencies written down to call for assistance, quite reminiscent to how migrants would damage their own boats in the Indian Ocean and call for help from the Australians; it all ended up being an exercise in futility for everyone.

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2016, 02:32:38 am

The whole EU project is going to collapse in flames at this rate, and as far as I'm concerned the saddest thing about it is that Eurovision might diminish in quality somewhat.

Eurovision is tainted in politics. Those bastards just couldn't dare to let Poland win so their pozzd judges dropped them like Danzig.

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 02:42:02 am

And then, somehow, this will be the EU's fault.

How is it not? Do you think millions of immigrants are drawn to a bankrupt country that offers no benefits? No, they're drawn to the borderless beacon of bountiful Berlin and bollockless Brussels. Booooo.

Quote from: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 03:08:58 am

Yeah, what were those lazy Greeks thinking by having 13,000 km of coastline and geographic proximity to most of the origin areas for refugees?
What do you want them to do, rediscover Greek fire and start lobbing it at migrant rafts?

Most of their coastline is very precipitous and most of their country mountainous, with most of their affected lands being islands like Lesbos on the trail. Notably, islands. There is a reason why the Persian Empire twice could not simply walk into Greece. They could stop it at Greece if they had the funds, but they are Greece, so they do not. There's the political will for it too since their leftists are hard leftists and their rightists are hard rightists, it's just a matter of who funds them first, Brussels or Moscow?

Quote from: Vilanat on March 02, 2016, 09:41:11 am

So the EU is willing to pay Turkey a 4 billion ransom, but can't help a fellow state with the expenses forced on them by Merkel's open invitation?

To be fair the EU failed to deliver Erdogan the 4 billion to help pay for all the Syrian refugees he took in because as we've all established, this is not about helping people, otherwise the EU would have helped solve the problem locally (famine in Africa? earthquakes in India? drought in the ME? Let's solve that with immigration somehow). Merkel's open invitation has no end state, there is no getting off of Mr. Bones wild ride. Yo gonna get culturally enriched son, Grek is love, Grek is life.

Quote from: Vilanat on March 02, 2016, 09:41:11 am

If Greece could somehow block the refugees, the immigrants would have just found another way in.

If the EU did not exist then Portugal, Spain, France and Italy would have full border control. If Greece did block the immigration flow they would most likely have to either go through Romania, Iberia or Italy, this would at the very least cause more antagonism against the EU just as the Eurozone crisis did.

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2016, 12:33:13 pm

Do you expect an executive at Goldman Sachs to know everything the bank is doing?

Is this a joke?

Quote

European Central Bank Governing Council member Mario Draghi said he “knew nothing” about Greece using off-market swaps with Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
“I had nothing to do with this deal whatsoever,” Draghi told lawmakers in Brussels at his confirmation hearing for the ECB Presidency today. “The deals between the Greek government and Goldman Sachs had been undertaken before my joining of Goldman Sachs.”
Greece hid 5.3 billion euros ($7.7 billion) of debt using currency swaps, the biggest of which were with Goldman Sachs, Eurostat, the European Union’s statistics office, said Nov. 15. Greece entered into a number of arrangements from 2001 through 2007 and their use, which it hadn’t previously reported as debt, helped push up borrowings, leading to the nation needing a bailout last year and triggering Europe’s debt crisis.
Draghi, who worked at Goldman Sachs as a vice chairman from 2002 to 2005, said that “even though Goldman Sachs expected me to work with the public sector, I had no interest and taste to work with the public sector,” adding that “I knew nothing about these things, nor had I done anything later on about these things, you can ask anybody

So a former chairman of Goldman Sachs becomes a member of the European Central Bank and then claims ignorance to the profitable deals his companies made to make them rich and disguise Greece's collapse? What a coincidence! Just as I'm sure, it's pure coincidence that Monsanto sends their chairmen into the senate and commerce.

Pure coincidence, look away

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 10:12:28 pm

Man, I had no idea the migrant crisis had gotten THIS bad.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcloD-3WAAER4td.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2016, 10:15:57 pm

Lol, did they let autocorrect fix a spelling mistake or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 10:30:51 pm

There are a frightening number of Americans who confuse Austria with Australia. The Nazi koalas are the biggest problem, followed by the lederhosen-wearing wombats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 03, 2016, 04:35:49 am

The French minister of Economy, Emmanuel Macron, has stated yesterday in the Financial Times (UK), that if there is a Brexit, France will allow all migrants to travel from Calais to England.
Right now, France is allowing British border patrol forces to patrol the French side of the Canal. With a Brexit, France is not planning on continuing this deal.
"The very day this relationship ends, there will be no more refugees in Calais", Macron said.

Next to that, Macron promises to roll out the red carpet for any company that wants to leave the UK in case of a Brexit.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/franse-minister-bij-brexit-laten-wij-migranten-calais-door~a4255970/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/franse-minister-bij-brexit-laten-wij-migranten-calais-door~a4255970/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2016, 05:06:35 am

Quote from: RedKing on March 02, 2016, 10:12:28 pm

Man, I had no idea the migrant crisis had gotten THIS bad.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcloD-3WAAER4td.jpg)

Still doesn't beat the one where they placed Crimea in Pakistan

Quote from: Covenant on March 03, 2016, 04:39:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 03, 2016, 04:35:49 am

The French minister of Economy, Emmanuel Macron, has stated yesterday in the Financial Times (UK), that if there is a Brexit, France will allow all migrants to travel from Calais to England.
Right now, France is allowing British border patrol forces to patrol the French side of the Canal. With a Brexit, France is not planning on continuing this deal.
"The very day this relationship ends, there will be no more refugees in Calais", Macron said.

Next to that, Macron promises to roll out the red carpet for any company that wants to leave the UK in case of a Brexit.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/franse-minister-bij-brexit-laten-wij-migranten-calais-door~a4255970/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/franse-minister-bij-brexit-laten-wij-migranten-calais-door~a4255970/)

Comments like that are only going to further the support for a Brexit. Makes me wonder what his real agenda is.

Judging by the Calais mayor that just seems to be a common view for French socialists, they don't really care about affecting the UK referendum as far as I can tell, they're speaking to the French

Quote

"Tomorrow Europe might no longer be European, and even black, as there are millions who want to come in," said Col Gaddafi, quoted by the AFP news agency.
He was speaking at a ceremony in Rome late on Monday, standing next to Italy's Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.
"We don't know what will happen, what will be the reaction of the white and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant Africans," Col Gaddafi said.
"We don't know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11139345

TIP LEL
WHY DIDN'T HE SHREK HIS AFRICAN PRIVILEGE BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE
NOW EVERYONE SITS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PRIVILEGE PYRAMID AND NO ONE GETS PRIVILEGE POINTS D:<

Quote

European Commission figures show that in 2009 the number of people caught trying to enter Italy illegally fell to 7,300, from 32,052 in 2008. The data was collected under the EU's Eurodac fingerprinting system.

Holy fucking shit, instead of funding this man the EU killed him, unilaterally
Illegal immigration was falling to thousands
Now it's millions
I was talking to some very smart folks while back and one of the things they were puzzling about was why when the infrastructure and equipment to have illegal immigration in the millions was in place for decades did it only start now. This isn't the only one (I've sperged over some of the others), but top kek my sides are in halal baikonur ready for lift off into ORBIT

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 03, 2016, 05:28:58 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2016, 05:06:35 am

Judging by the Calais mayor that just seems to be a common view for French socialists, they don't really care about affecting the UK referendum as far as I can tell, they're speaking to the French

Then why state that in the UK's major economic newspaper instead of in a French socialist one?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2016, 05:48:38 am

Well, there is a general mood of being annoyed by the Brits, because a) Cameron is annoying and b) the whole Brexit thing made him even more annoying. Britain under Cameron has made an exceptional job of annoying just about every Europea government.

I guess the migrant part could also be seen as touting a benefit of Brexin (cooperation on border controls).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 09:21:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2016, 05:06:35 am

Holy fucking shit, instead of funding this man the EU killed him, unilaterally
Illegal immigration was falling to thousands
Now it's millions
I was talking to some very smart folks while back and one of the things they were puzzling about was why when the infrastructure and equipment to have illegal immigration in the millions was in place for decades did it only start now. This isn't the only one (I've sperged over some of the others), but top kek my sides are in halal baikonur ready for lift off into ORBIT

You know, if you look up by which means he achieved that reduction you'll begin to understand why funding him was not exactly something the EU could or wanted to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 03, 2016, 09:25:46 am

Quote from: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 09:21:52 am

You know, if you look up by which means he achieved that reduction you'll begin to understand why funding him was not exactly something the EU could or wanted to do.

You mean that you actually believe that the EU gives a damn about human rights?
Our Saudi and Chinese trade partners would pee their pants laughing if you tried making them believe that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 09:42:02 am

Well, it's rather schizophrenic about it - but would you really claim that the EU shits on human rights Saudi Arabia-style?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 09:49:11 am

The very existence of Saudi Arabia as a trading partner underlines that human rights are certainly not that important for the institution as a whole. Not if realpolitiks makes something else more convenient.


BTW: the King of Morocco is still in the good side despite the fact that he has been dealing with illegal immigration in similar ways to Quaddafi's for years. Among other things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2016, 09:57:35 am

Yeah, human rights are just one of the many things the EU is intersted in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2016, 09:58:38 am

What? Don't you know Saudi Arabia isn't an oppressive dictatorship (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/20/sweden-stood-up-for-human-rights-in-saudi-arabia-this-is-how-saudi-arabia-is-punishing-sweden/). They can't be, their laws are based on Sharia, and Sharia law  guarantees the rights and dignity of all people. (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/03/saudi-arabia-recalls-ambassador-sweden-150311123334400.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2016, 10:00:33 am

We all agree that Saudi Arabia is indeed, horrible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2016, 10:32:30 am

Not enough to risk those sweet sweet trade relations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 01:48:50 pm

Ceasing trade for moral reasons is a righteous impulse, but ultimatively counterproductive. Brandt-style Entspannungspolitik works much better - though of course that approach has problems too, and I'm not a Brandt fan at all.

The right approach would be: We cannot cease calling out immoral actions and policies because they endanger our profits. However it is perfectly acceptable to trade even with those we call out: We are opposed to their actions, after all, and not to them as people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 03, 2016, 02:17:47 pm

The case study of South Africa would beg to differ. They didn't give a shit about being a pariah as long as people still wanted to buy gold and Krugerrands.

Likewise, I doubt the House of Saud cares about world opinion as long as the money flows and the oil sells. If anything, they're more vulnerable to outside pressure right now because the Saudi economy is hemorrhaging thanks to cheap oil.

Although it should be noted that any progressive changes which are due in part to foreign influence would likely be the target of a reactionary backlash. As if reactionary Arabs don't hate the rest of the world enough already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 03, 2016, 04:25:53 pm

I fear this is a mistake, but…
PTW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 05:40:12 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 03, 2016, 04:25:53 pm

I fear this is a mistake, but…
PTW

Do not fear. Only participate in discussion about friendly and polite EU-related news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:00:21 pm

By the way, third month after the election and still no goverment in Spain. All the MPs lock themselves in the parliament, and insult each other tirelessly. Meanwhile, the stock market is going up, corrupt politicians and noblemen are going to prison.... things are going better than ever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:11:00 pm

Spain still has nobles? *fake shock face*

I don't suppose the king can do something about it? Though I guess he'd have the same reaction from Spaniards as Queen Elizabeth would from the British people if she tried to overtly exercise whatever major governmental powers she has.

Though maybe if there was a real crisis going on in British parliament....

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 05:40:12 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 03, 2016, 04:25:53 pm

I fear this is a mistake, but…
PTW

Do not fear. Only participate in discussion about friendly and polite EU-related news.

France breakup? What are you talking about?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:14:02 pm

Well, we have the royal family. Some members of which are going on trial right now. Not damn near enough of them. They're nearly untouchable. Some of them absolutely so, as per the constitution the King cannot be held legally liable. Like, at all. We'll see whether these two actually go to prison or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:17:45 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:14:02 pm

Well, we have the royal family. Some members of which are going on trial right now. Not damn near enough of them. They're nearly untouchable. Some of them absolutely so, as per the constitution the King cannot be held legally liable. Like, at all. We'll see whether these two actually go to prison or not.

So, if your king were to murder someone on live national TV, with millions of Spaniards witnessing it, he couldn't even be charged? pfft..... Good thing we ditched the Monarchy.

Though I don't think the British nobility and royalty are above the law like that, anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 03, 2016, 06:25:19 pm

Magna Carta.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:35:50 pm

Quote

So, if your king were to murder someone on live national TV, with millions of Spaniards witnessing it, he couldn't even be charged?

Pretty much. Article 56 of the Spanish constitution, section 3

Quote

La persona del Rey es inviolable y no está sujeta a responsabilidad.

So yeah, he could. In fact, one of the fathers of the constitution and staunch monarchist was questioned a few years ago about what would happen (hypothetically speaking) if the king got caught up in a corruption scandal, and he admitted that at most the ministry of finance would be forced to resign.

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on March 03, 2016, 06:25:19 pm

Magna Carta.

And Oliver Cromwell. The British monarchy lost a lot of power over the centuries. Meanwhile, the current Spanish royal family is in place basically because Generalissimo Franco set things up so that they were. It's not clear to what extent their influence in business reaches because they are pretty opaque about their actual expenses and assets.


I'd say what I think about royal families in general. But I'd rather not meddle in other countries' inner politics. So I'll just state that I'm not our own's biggest fan.

HAHAHAHA disregard that, I suck socks. Far from my intention to question our benevolent royal family. It'd be a crime to do so, in fact (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injurias_a_la_Corona_(Espa%C3%B1a))  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2016, 06:40:22 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 01:48:50 pm

Ceasing trade for moral reasons is a righteous impulse, but ultimatively counterproductive. Brandt-style Entspannungspolitik works much better - though of course that approach has problems too, and I'm not a Brandt fan at all.

The right approach would be: We cannot cease calling out immoral actions and policies because they endanger our profits. However it is perfectly acceptable to trade even with those we call out: We are opposed to their actions, after all, and not to them as people.

Saudi Arabia were the ones who threatened to cut trade over criticism, Sweden were not the ones who threatened embargo if SA didn't change. Which forced Sweden to "seize calling out the immoral behaviour" and take back the criticism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:48:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:35:50 pm

Quote

So, if your king were to murder someone on live national TV, with millions of Spaniards witnessing it, he couldn't even be charged?

Pretty much. Article 56 of the Spanish constitution, section 3

Quote

La persona del Rey es inviolable y no está sujeta a responsabilidad.

So yeah, he could. In fact, one of the fathers of the constitution and staunch monarchist was questioned a few years ago about what would happen (hypothetically speaking) if the king got caught up in a corruption scandal, and he admitted that at most the ministry of finance would be forced to resign.

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on March 03, 2016, 06:25:19 pm

Magna Carta.

And Oliver Cromwell. The British monarchy lost a lot of power over the centuries. Meanwhile, the current Spanish royal family is in place basically because a leftover fascist dictator set things up so that they were. They keep fingers in many big businesses. It's not clear to what extent because they are *really* opaque about their actual expenses and assets.


I'd say what I think about royal families in general. But I'd rather not meddle in other countries' inner politics. So I'll just state that I'm not our own's biggest fan.

HAHAHAHA disregard that, I suck socks. Far from my intention to question our benevolent royal family. It'd be a crime to do so, in fact (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injurias_a_la_Corona_(Espa%C3%B1a))  ::)

Ah yes, HEIL CARLOS! ::)

Seriously though, you guys need to pull a French Revolution on your monarchy. Also, I'm American, so, can't touch me......

Edit: Eeh, I think I'm getting a bit trolly here, yell at me if you want me to stop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:54:48 pm

Of course not that's preposterous! I for one welcome the benevolent rule of our Borbonic overlords  ::)  ::)  ::)

Everyone knows the best  way to choose a head of State is to make it a hereditary position and put the holder beyond any legal responsability. It's really great! I bet everything would go much smoother everywhere if every country had a king that cannot be held responsible for his own acts.  Truly our constitution is the best in the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2016, 06:56:18 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:48:11 pm

Seriously though, you guys need to pull a French Revolution on your monarchy.

Kill them and replace them with a megalomaniac dictator Emperor?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 03, 2016, 07:38:42 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2016, 06:54:48 pm

Of course not that's preposterous! I for one welcome the benevolent rule of our Borbonic overlords  ::)  ::)  ::)

Bah, they're no Carlos I (Karl V) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor), grand Habsburg. Orléans-Bragança best house. Iberian Union never forget.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:11:00 pm

France breakup? What are you talking about?

Isn't France the place with a few states that want to become their own countries? Or is that Spain?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 09:57:21 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:11:00 pm

France breakup? What are you talking about?

Isn't France the place with a few states that want to become their own countries? Or is that Spain?

You're probably thinking of Spain with Catalonia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 10:46:20 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 09:57:21 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:11:00 pm

France breakup? What are you talking about?

Isn't France the place with a few states that want to become their own countries? Or is that Spain?

You're probably thinking of Spain with Catalonia.

Right. ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 04, 2016, 01:33:04 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2016, 10:00:33 am

We all agree that Saudi Arabia is indeed, horrible.

No we don't

You gonna get Salman slapped for your insolence like Sweden

Quote from: RedKing on March 03, 2016, 02:17:47 pm

Likewise, I doubt the House of Saud cares about world opinion as long as the money flows and the oil sells. If anything, they're more vulnerable to outside pressure right now because the Saudi economy is hemorrhaging thanks to cheap oil.
Although it should be noted that any progressive changes which are due in part to foreign influence would likely be the target of a reactionary backlash. As if reactionary Arabs don't hate the rest of the world enough already.

Also creating an embargo on Saudi Arabia would suddenly crush the Saudi government's ability to continue social benefits via oil shekels, leaving a large unemployed fundamentalist reactionary youth whose only education is in theology suddenly without their neet benefits. Jihads for days would be the result

Quote from: smjjames on March 03, 2016, 06:11:00 pm

I don't suppose the king can do something about it? Though I guess he'd have the same reaction from Spaniards as Queen Elizabeth would from the British people if she tried to overtly exercise whatever major governmental powers she has.
Though maybe if there was a real crisis going on in British parliament....

Yeah but to be fair that's because Queen Elizabeth started off her reign basically by saying she was handing her power over to Parliament to exercise and has stuck by that since. If Prince Harry rode a motorbike into parliament and socked Cameron I'm not sure if any people besides butthurt metropolitans would give much wink to it. I suppose in a weird sense that would be more dangerous than the Queen intervening, as there are constitutional limits on rulers but not other royals. CIVIL WAR 2: THIS TIME WE RETAKE CALAIS

Quote from: martinuzz on March 03, 2016, 05:28:58 am

Then why state that in the UK's major economic newspaper instead of in a French socialist one?

FT is not THE economic newspaper for the UK, we got loads and FT's readership is international, not UK specific

I was also not aware that French socialist newspapers had very large presence as that's a very specific niche, whereas with an international readership you ensure your message is heard. Think of it this way, when Putin slags off Westerners on Western media he is talking to Russians, not Westerners

Quote from: Helgoland on March 03, 2016, 09:21:52 am

You know, if you look up by which means he achieved that reduction you'll begin to understand why funding him was not exactly something the EU could or wanted to do.

But the EU did want to and did do it lol, it was a part of the EU's strategy to destroy Europe's internal borders and replace them with a functional external border
They only stopped when we started blowing them up for reasons that were probably clearer back then

Face it Helgo, EU doesn't give a fuck who's killing who as long as the power and shekels flow in the right direction

Quote

http://www.theweek.co.uk/6515/how-libya-kept-migrants-out-of-eu-at-any-cost
Last summer he asked the EU for €5bn to prevent Europe from "turning black". In October he received a promise of €50 million over the next three years as part of a 'co-operation agenda' signed by the European Commission.

Tip kok

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 04, 2016, 04:26:59 am

Could we at least agree that selling weapons to Saudi Arabia is bad?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 04, 2016, 10:26:25 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/clean-queen-campaign-tory-britain-its-worst

The more I see shit like this campaign the more I get the urge to slam roughly two thirds of the UK parliaments faces into a belt sander until the screaming stops.  >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 04, 2016, 11:09:45 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

Isn't France the place with a few states that want to become their own countries? Or is that Spain?

It's the UK, silly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 06:31:13 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 04, 2016, 11:09:45 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2016, 09:55:24 pm

Isn't France the place with a few states that want to become their own countries? Or is that Spain?

It's the UK, silly.

Ya France crushed and assimilated their separatists fully about a hundred years ago, today the most serious secession movements are in the UK, Spain and Italy

Quote from: Antsan on March 04, 2016, 04:26:59 am

Could we at least agree that selling weapons to Saudi Arabia is bad?

Not if it just result in Saudis buying from China or Russia to do the exact same things, or worse still Saudis just getting overrun by insurgents

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 04, 2016, 10:26:25 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/clean-queen-campaign-tory-britain-its-worst
The more I see shit like this campaign the more I get the urge to slam roughly two thirds of the UK parliaments faces into a belt sander until the screaming stops.  >:(

Quote

Motivation is not the problem. People are not, on the whole, unemployed or underemployed because they are lazy or feckless or make poor choices. People are unemployed because there are fewer jobs available, and those that remain pay far less than they once did as the cost of living continues to rise.

And yet labour brought in immigration under the pretense that the British were unmotivated, lazy and feckless in taking up blue collar jobs, said we needed to depreciate wages with immigration to make the economy more competitive and then said immigrants not touk urr juuurb in spite of today's job shortages.
Conveniently during the time they tried divorcing themselves from the working class vote. top lels

Also just look at job sectors like nursing and medicine, there is a shortage of positions that is not being filled by Britons. Why? Dunno, there's something wrong with British today. They're the lowest performing students in London and they all tend to grow up into 20y/o kids with no job skills put plenty of red hair dye

Quote

Britain is a dirty place, but the grime is where it’s always been – below the surface, settling into the cracks in sixty million anxious human hearts. If you’re wondering what this has to do with the Queen, the answer, of course, is nothing at all. The Queen is ninety years old. She does not care if the bins get taken out, and neither does the Cabinet, as long as we’re not out there actively upending wheelie bins in disgust. The Queen’s birthday is merely a convenient occasion for another cloying appeal to this country’s most subservient, cap-doffing instincts: don’t make a fuss. Sit up straight, peasants. Put on a proper suit and tie. Don’t talk about poverty. Don’t talk about inequality. Stiffen that upper lip while you sing the National Anthem. Polish your front step till it shines. Scrub and smile.

Laurie Penny has subtle opinions that do not in any way affect her judgement
And yeah she was born Westminster to a lawyer's family and tends to say clever things like the Germans clamping down on immigration in response to the NY mass sexual assaults is racist and the Germans really need to attack themselves because they are the white patriarchy. Basically you got your jimmies rustled by a professional ruser
FFS she's talking about upending wheelie bins in disgust when she lives in the richest area of London, one of the richest areas of the world? Nah get dunked, another rich white girl pretending she's living the hard life and getting payed mad shekels to do so.

Now I had not heard of this campaign amidst all the buzz around my area mainly being the whole Turkish / Kurd demonstration going on but I looked this up and it's all in Hammersmith, which makes sense now why I haven't heard of it as I'm on the wrong side of the city, but I can say this is not about littering. The people genuinely trying to say if you turn your own neighbourhood into a shithole it's someone else's fault or the people genuinely trying to say cleaning up your neighbourhood will make the Queen happy, nah no one here is really getting fired up over cleaning up. This is just two sides trying to win a twitter war, which is perhaps one of the most pathetic things everyone could be doing right now.

Here's the most obvious response for anyone who actually cares about not swimming in rat feces:

Quote

Councils across England spend more than £340 million per year on street cleaning and litter picking. In 2014 to 2015, Southwark will spend around £6.4 million clearing our streets of litter and other rubbish.
What can we all do clean up our streets?
Don't drop it
The simple message is 'bin it'. There is no need to drop litter. If there isn't a litterbin near by, wait until you get to the nearest one or keep your rubbish until you get home. If you drop litter you could get fined. The law allows us to give on the spot fines of £75 to anyone we see dropping litter.
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200089/street_cleaning/417/litter_and_street_cleaning

Yeah but what we really need is more privileged white girls telling us we're not responsible for our actions and it's the privileged white boys who will save us from consequences  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 05, 2016, 07:04:20 am

In Macedonia, police tried to keep Slavic nationalists and ethnic Albanian nationalist from attacking each other.
Both sides responded by throwing rocks at the police, and many people were injured.
Many hundreds of orthodox Slavic Macedonians wanted to chase away ethnic Albanian Macedonians from a city square, where they (the Slavic nationalists) want to erect a 55m high metal crucifix, in response to a gigantic statue of an eagle that has been erected in a neighboring city district, as a symbol for all Albanians on the Balkan.

Ethnic Albanians form about 30% of Macedonia's population of 2 million. The country has been plagued by political crisis, which have prompted early elections to be held in june this year.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/veel-gewonden-bij-nationalistische-rellen-in-macedonie~a4257552/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/veel-gewonden-bij-nationalistische-rellen-in-macedonie~a4257552/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 05, 2016, 08:53:41 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 05, 2016, 07:04:20 am

In Macedonia, police tried to keep Slavic nationalists and ethnic Albanian nationalist from attacking each other.
Both sides responded by throwing rocks at the police, and many people were injured.
Many hundreds of orthodox Slavic Macedonians wanted to chase away ethnic Albanian Macedonians from a city square, where they (the Slavic nationalists) want to erect a 55m high metal crucifix, in response to a gigantic statue of an eagle that has been erected in a neighboring city district, as a symbol for all Albanians on the Balkan.

Ethnic Albanians form about 30% of Macedonia's population of 2 million. The country has been plagued by political crisis, which have prompted early elections to be held in june this year.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/veel-gewonden-bij-nationalistische-rellen-in-macedonie~a4257552/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/veel-gewonden-bij-nationalistische-rellen-in-macedonie~a4257552/)

monument-measuring contest is a go

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 05, 2016, 10:02:59 am

smack dab a christ statue in dere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_the_King_(%C5%9Awiebodzin))

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 05, 2016, 10:33:07 am

Spoiler: Speaking about monuments (click to show/hide)

 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcycLLTXIAARoIr.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 05, 2016, 10:41:10 am

bah that monument isn't even 5 meter tall

clearly inferior to POLAN RAGE HULK OUT 33 METER OF PURE CHRIST

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 11:26:04 am

I don't think I'll ever understand the mentality that thinks putting up monuments is a worthwhile use of time and money.  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 12:12:10 pm

Memorials are a form of monument.

Inspires pride and unity, which can help reduce crime, theoretically.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 05, 2016, 12:56:27 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 05, 2016, 10:41:10 am

bah that monument isn't even 5 meter tall

clearly inferior to POLAN RAGE HULK OUT 33 METER OF PURE CHRIST

Buddha and his buddies Guanyin, Yan and Huang would like to have a word with you. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statues_by_height)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 05, 2016, 01:04:11 pm

Since Turkey's role in handling the current Big European Issue (i.e. migration) is quite important, this piece of news seems to be very relevant to this thread:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/02/turkey-has-opened-at-least-1845-cases-over-insults-to-erdogan/

If you are unable to get past the annoying "register or bust" bullshit, here's the copy-pasta:

Quote

Turkey Has Opened at Least 1,845 Cases Over Insults to Erdogan

If there’s one thing Recep Tayyip Erdogan has made clear since he became Turkey’s president in 2014, it’s that he really would prefer his citizens don’t insult him. Journalists report routine intimidation; a doctor went to trial for posting a meme that compared him to the fictional character of Gollum; and the culture of fear surrounding insults toward the head of state was made obvious last month when a husband reported his own wife for changing the channel every time Erdogan came on TV.

Those are just a tiny fraction of the number of cases opened against people accused of insulting Erdogan. This week, Turkish Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag said that at least 1,845 cases of alleged insults toward Erdogan have been opened in the past two years.

“I am unable to read the insults leveled at our president,” Bozdag said while defending the government. “I start to blush.”

Here are some of the insults Bozdag was apparently too embarrassed — or too scared — to repeat:

The professor

When Turkish philosophy professor Orsan K. Oymen published an op-ed saying Erdogan deserves to face trial for corruption and breaking the constitution, he probably knew it wouldn’t end well. The article ran in April 2015, and this January Oymen said he now faces four years in prison. He doesn’t deny writing the article; he just maintains it wasn’t an insult: Erdogan is “unable to distinguish strong criticism from an insult,” Oymen said.

The doctor

In October of last year, Bilgin Ciftci, a doctor, was banned by the Public Health Institution of Turkey for comparing Erdogan to Gollum, the small, slimy, fanged creature from J. R. R. Tolkien’s beloved Lord of the Rings series. In December, his trial came to an impasse when the judge couldn’t decide if that was an insult or not. Some believe Gollum to be more tragic than evil. The judges are expected to make a decision this spring.

The beauty queen

In 2006, Merve Buyuksarac was crowned Miss Turkey. Less than a decade later, she faced two years of prison time for posting a poem on Instagram that Turkish officials claimed insulted Erdogan. She claims she did not intend to insult him and removed it once she realized she could have committed a crime. “I did not personally adapt the poem titled ‘The Poem of the Chief,’” she said last year. “I shared it because it was funny to me.”

The students

Last October, a 14-year-old boy spent a night in prison facing charges for insulting the president in a Facebook post. The details of his case remain confidential, and he was later released due to his age. In late 2014, another student, 16-year-old Mehmet Emin Altunses, was arrested for calling Erdogan a thief during a student protest. In December 2015, another 16-year-old had to pay a nearly $2,000 fine for insulting Erdogan in a Twitter post.

Source

And now, for a rap pause:

saddam erdogan destoying kurdish towns at the speed of light (http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-rolls-back-curfew-mainly-kurdish-town-035723345.html?nf=1) and unable to tolerate being compared with Gollum while Putin can handle being called a fucking CRAB (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/sitemap/free/2009/12/article/russians-google-why-is-putin-a-crab/390741.html).

and some people call Russia as being more oppressive than Turkey

guess not for long now that Turkey has gone full third-world dictatorship

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 02:15:40 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 12:12:10 pm

Memorials are a form of monument.

Inspires pride and unity, which can help reduce crime, theoretically.

I'm pretty sure that spending the same money to counteract the root causes of crime would be substantially more effective. I know the statue of one of my university's namesakes outside the front door doesn't make me feel any solidarity with my fellow students.

I consider monuments to religious figures kind of funny though. Especially when the figure is associated with charity and helping the poor. Like Jesus, or with abstaining from material wealth like Buddha.

'Hey, should we spend hundreds of thousands of [currency] on helping the needy?'

'Nah, let's build a giant monument to show how much we care about [religious figure]'s teachings.'

'The ones about helping the poor and the sick?'

'Yeah, those are the ones I was thinking of.'

I find it particularly amusing in the Buddha case.

Hey, y'know that guy who gave up all his wealth and taught us that physical things detract from spiritual happiness? Let's put golden statues of him all over the place, and build ornate temples dedicated to his teachings. Spending material wealth on him will show our understanding of his lessons.  :P



In regards to the post Sergarr made above.

Can someone remind me why we're allied with Turkey again? I can't think of any occasions where I've seen them mentioned for something without it either being their invasion of Cyprus or being internally shady as hell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 05, 2016, 02:28:52 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 02:15:40 pm

In regards to the post Sergarr made above.

Can someone remind me why we're allied with Turkey again? I can't think of any occasions where I've seen them mentioned for something without it either being their invasion of Cyprus or being internally shady as hell.

One could ask that about Saudi Arabia. Although the answer to THAT one is obvious, oil.

As for the Turkey alliance, it goes back to the Cold War days I think. Not to mention that they're part of NATO (which again, goes back to the Cold War).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 05, 2016, 02:35:48 pm

One out of seven enterprises providing housing for immigrant children arriving without relatives that was started last autumn/winter is run with known criminals in the company board. (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/domda-personer-bakom-familjehemsbolag/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 02:51:21 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 02:15:40 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 12:12:10 pm

Memorials are a form of monument.

Inspires pride and unity, which can help reduce crime, theoretically.

I'm pretty sure that spending the same money to counteract the root causes of crime would be substantially more effective. I know the statue of one of my university's namesakes outside the front door doesn't make me feel any solidarity with my fellow students.

I consider monuments to religious figures kind of funny though. Especially when the figure is associated with charity and helping the poor. Like Jesus, or with abstaining from material wealth like Buddha.

'Hey, should we spend hundreds of thousands of [currency] on helping the needy?'

'Nah, let's build a giant monument to show how much we care about [religious figure]'s teachings.'

'The ones about helping the poor and the sick?'

'Yeah, those are the ones I was thinking of.'

I find it particularly amusing in the Buddha case.

Hey, y'know that guy who gave up all his wealth and taught us that physical things detract from spiritual happiness? Let's put golden statues of him all over the place, and build ornate temples dedicated to his teachings. Spending material wealth on him will show our understanding of his lessons.  :P



In regards to the post Sergarr made above.

Can someone remind me why we're allied with Turkey again? I can't think of any occasions where I've seen them mentioned for something without it either being their invasion of Cyprus or being internally shady as hell.

Oh, it probably would. I'm just giving an example of the type of reasoning one could use. For some, national pride and unity is an end-goal in and of itself, as well. It's like...the government version of having something you find sentimentally important, or spending money on ice cream. It's not necessary, it might even be bad for you, but it feels good, and you don't really wanna throw it away.

For universities, it's entirely so that future wealthy alumni/professors will also want to donate and have statues put up of them. Honoring past members and all that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:33:46 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 05, 2016, 02:35:48 pm

One out of seven enterprises providing housing for immigrant children arriving without relatives that was started last autumn/winter is run with known criminals in the company board. (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/domda-personer-bakom-familjehemsbolag/)

I don't know how to react to this anymore, with laughter or sadness

Sad laughter it is

Quote from: Sergarr on March 05, 2016, 01:04:11 pm

and some people call Russia as being more oppressive than Turkey

One of the things going around Londonistan cos of the Kurd march is that they said the only difference between Assad and Erdogan is that Assad doesn't bomb Kurds
Savage

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 11:26:04 am

I don't think I'll ever understand the mentality that thinks putting up monuments is a worthwhile use of time and money.  ???

No

Respect the robot (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/turkish-mayor-sued-over-giant-transformer-robot-statue-10169516.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:39:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:33:46 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 11:26:04 am

I don't think I'll ever understand the mentality that thinks putting up monuments is a worthwhile use of time and money.  ???

No

Respect the robot (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/turkish-mayor-sued-over-giant-transformer-robot-statue-10169516.html)

I just found out in response to criticism he replaced the robot with a T-rex (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-32535917)

/int/ pls leav politics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkJnQQrS1yY)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 05, 2016, 04:41:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:39:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:33:46 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 11:26:04 am

I don't think I'll ever understand the mentality that thinks putting up monuments is a worthwhile use of time and money.  ???

No

Respect the robot (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/turkish-mayor-sued-over-giant-transformer-robot-statue-10169516.html)

I just found out in response to criticism he replaced the robot with a T-rex (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-32535917)

/int/ pls leav politics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkJnQQrS1yY)

Quote from: The Article

And it might not be the last statue to grace the site. "I will also replace the dinosaur with something else," Mr Gokcek says, although he hasn't given any clues as to what may come next.

My sides.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 04:43:38 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:39:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:33:46 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 05, 2016, 11:26:04 am

I don't think I'll ever understand the mentality that thinks putting up monuments is a worthwhile use of time and money.  ???

No

Respect the robot (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/turkish-mayor-sued-over-giant-transformer-robot-statue-10169516.html)

I just found out in response to criticism he replaced the robot with a T-rex (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-32535917)

/int/ pls leav politics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkJnQQrS1yY)

Words fail me. I genuinely cannot think of a coherent way to express how disappointed I am in humans at this moment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:47:16 pm

Don't place your faith in humans

Place your faith in Robot and T-rex

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 05:00:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:47:16 pm

Don't place your faith in humans

Place your faith in Robot and T-rex

All hail Grimlock

Me Grimlock lead tiny humans to greatness

Me Grimlock promise this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 06, 2016, 06:10:46 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 05:00:39 pm

All hail Grimlock

Me Grimlock lead tiny humans to greatness

Me Grimlock promise this

Got to say, if the EU President was a robot T-rex I don't think anyone would mind

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2016, 01:38:22 pm

Vote for the new model Tusk: the T-R.E.X.
now with Robotically Enhanced Xenophobia!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 07, 2016, 03:56:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 06, 2016, 06:10:46 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 05, 2016, 05:00:39 pm

All hail Grimlock

Me Grimlock lead tiny humans to greatness

Me Grimlock promise this

Got to say, if the EU President was a robot T-rex I don't think anyone would mind

Sounds like a significant improvement to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2016, 06:22:55 pm

Quite unexpected, the Turkish government proposed a new plan to the EU in Brussels today.

Not only are they willing to take back into Turkey any migrants that are not war refugees (which is what the EU was trying to negotiate), they offered to take back into Turkey every migrant down to the single last one that crosses the Mediterranean in the future, including Syrian war refugees.
Basically, they are saying "we will completely stop your immigration problem, just send them all back as soon as they make landfall"

But it's not for free.
In return, they want
- to let real war refugees in Turkish refugee camps be redistributed over Europe using legal routes
- another 3 billion on top of the 3 billion already agreed upon
- no more visa needed for Turks to travel to the EU
- reopening negotiations about Turkey joining the EU

with the current problems with human rights and press freedom, I could see the third last demand being a problem
still, latest news is that it looks like that a draft agreement is being reached in Brussels.

In another proposal, Turkey proposes to create safe havens for refugees in Syria itself, with the help of EU members, but it looks like no concensus will be reached for that.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-principeakkoord-met-turken-in-de-maak~a4258295/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-principeakkoord-met-turken-in-de-maak~a4258295/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2016, 06:34:27 pm

Do you have the same article on a different site? I tried to use google translate, but the 'this page uses cookies' popup is blocking it and clicking yes I accept doesn't work in the translated page. Tried it on Chrome, didn't work either, looked like it was going to the homepage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 07, 2016, 07:26:57 pm

Yeah, I have no love for Turkey but that is an excellent diplomatic move.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 07, 2016, 08:42:09 pm

Turkey has put Sheb in charge.

We're all doomed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2016, 08:52:28 pm

Hungary has blocked the deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2016, 09:03:15 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2016, 08:52:28 pm

Hungary has blocked the deal.

Did they give a reason? Just wondering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: andrea on March 07, 2016, 09:37:27 pm

That looked like a really sweet deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 08, 2016, 01:44:45 am

Yeah, really good for Erdogan!

He knows very well that even if the EU so desire, it wont be able to send back the refugees that already arrived back or forward to turkey and it's meaningless to talk about sending new refugees if the EU is supposed to redistribute the 4 million refugees that are now in Turkey. Turkey obviously wont encounter too much troubles sending their refugees to Europe. this is a complete net gain in refugees exchange for the EU even if we wrongly assume the EU could deport the ones who already arrived.

The Visa free travel to Europe will make sure more Turkish immigrants move into Europe, including lots and lots of Turkish ISIS fellas and suddenly-turned-Turkish other nationals.

All of Turkey's gestures and actions are just empty. i don't know if the EU is in it for the propaganda of it all or if they are that incompetent to consider this a good one, but if the EU accepts this deal, and if i would have been british, i would have voted out just for this shady deal.

Besides, after Erdogan's recent armed and violent take over of an opposing news paper, he shouldn't get rewards, he should get severely punished.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on March 08, 2016, 02:58:14 am

Well currently Turley & Erdogen are major pains in the butt to their allies. If they can become vital to solvong an EU problem there's a lot more they can get away with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2016, 03:25:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 07, 2016, 06:22:55 pm

Quite unexpected, the Turkish government proposed a new plan to the EU in Brussels today.
Not only are they willing to take back into Turkey any migrants that are not war refugees (which is what the EU was trying to negotiate), they offered to take back into Turkey every migrant down to the single last one that crosses the Mediterranean in the future, including Syrian war refugees.
Basically, they are saying "we will completely stop your immigration problem, just send them all back as soon as they make landfall"

That is not what Erdogan is saying. Do I need to remind you this is the man who accused the EU of taking him for a fool?

Quote

In a statement, EU leaders said they broadly supported a deal that included:

• The return of all new irregular migrants crossing from Turkey to the Greek islands with the costs covered by the EU
• The resettlement of one Syrian from Turkey to the EU for every Syrian readmitted by Turkey from Greece
• Speeding up of plans to allow Turks visa-free travel in Europe, with a view to lifting visa requirements by June 2016
• Speeding up the payment of €3bn ($3.3bn; £2.2bn) promised in October, and a decision on additional funding to help Turkey deal with the crisis. Turkey reportedly asked for EU aid to be increased to €6bn ($6.6bn; £4.64bn)
• Preparations for a decision on the opening of new chapters in talks on EU membership for Turkey

Speaking at a news conference after the summit, Turkish PM Ahmet Davutoglu said Turkey had made a "bold decision to accept all irregular illegal migrants... based on the assumption that for every one Syrian readmitted by Turkey from the Greek islands another Syrian will be resettled by Europe."
But he said it was important to see the refugee deal as a package, to include progress on Turkish integration within the EU.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the proposals could be a major step forward if realised, stressing that "irregular migration" needed to be turned into "regular migration".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35749837

Merkel wants to turn illegal migration into the exact same thing, only legally so the nations like Hungary cannot block it - that's why Hungary is opposed. This is without a doubt a net loss in migrants for Turkey, and to top it all off the EU is now being used as Turkey's big stick - the proposal to put "safe zones" in Syria is meant to preserve Turkey's influence in a hostile Syria whilst keeping the Kurdish Rojava separated (which would be a big issue, as they just united meaning Turkey would have to put their safe zones through a united Kurdish front, one way or another). Excluding anyone using Turkish passports to travel to Europe (Lord knows fake Syrian document black market is large enough) this deal doesn't even cover Med or Black sea traffic, just Greece =/= Turkey. On the bright side this might help Greece, but everything Vilanat's said is poignant.

It's no coincidence that Turkey only started NATO "humanitarian patrols" in the sea or proposed safe zones when they wanted to ward off Russian influence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

it's not that beneficial for Turkey qua immigrants. Sure, they want to trade Syrians 1:1. But it will still keep out the majority of the refugees, because those are not Syrian.
Syrian war refugees are only a part of the migrants crossing the mediterranean.
A deal with the Turks should (at least on paper) stop the influx of economic migrants via that route.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 03:43:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

it's not that beneficial for Turkey qua immigrants. Sure, they want to trade Syrians 1:1. But it will still keep out the majority of the refugees, because those are not Syrian.
Syrian war refugees are only a part of the migrants crossing the mediterranean.
A deal with the Turks should (at least on paper) stop the influx of economic migrants via that route.

With visa-free travel for Turks? No. It's only going to legalize it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2016, 03:48:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

it's not that beneficial for Turkey qua immigrants. Sure, they want to trade Syrians 1:1. But it will still keep out the majority of the refugees, because those are not Syrian.

For each illegal migrant they get from Greece they give Europe a Syrian and however many Turks, not including any illegal migration through the Black or Med sea.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

Syrian war refugees are only a part of the migrants crossing the mediterranean.

I know, from the start I contended this. This is not a solution for Europe, this is giving Turkey everything they want in exchange for nothing. EU support for strikes against the Kurds, EU support for Turkish membership, EU support for Turkish humanitarian crisis and a net loss in migrants to be resettled into Europe with no legal opposition allowed.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

A deal with the Turks should (at least on paper) stop the influx of economic migrants via that route.

Certainly not this deal and certainly not stop it, not even on that one route - one of many.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 03:43:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2016, 03:39:07 am

it's not that beneficial for Turkey qua immigrants. Sure, they want to trade Syrians 1:1. But it will still keep out the majority of the refugees, because those are not Syrian.
Syrian war refugees are only a part of the migrants crossing the mediterranean.
A deal with the Turks should (at least on paper) stop the influx of economic migrants via that route.

With visa-free travel for Turks? No. It's only going to legalize it.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the proposals could be a major step forward if realised, stressing that "irregular migration" needed to be turned into "regular migration".

This way European states cannot legally stop it.

DUDE MERKEL LMAO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2016, 10:09:10 am

You guys let foriegn banks have influence over your elections? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-19/le-pen-party-taps-russian-banks-to-fund-2017-election-campaign Pfft........

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 10:21:45 am

Well, you see, the only other alternative is to get domestic banks to influence your elections, and that's, like, bad.

The third variant, self-financed parties, is 1) not usually possible, and 2) tend to result in complete uncompromising madmen coming to power in the party (in modern USA's elections, for example, the current self-financed candidates (which in conditions of a two-party systems, are mini-parties in themselves, and so can be used for purpose of this analogy) are Trump and Sanders, which are both incredibly bad in new and exciting ways)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2016, 10:37:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 10:21:45 am

Well, you see, the only other alternative is to get domestic banks to influence your elections, and that's, like, bad.

The third variant, self-financed parties, is 1) not usually possible, and 2) tend to result in complete uncompromising madmen coming to power in the party (in modern USA's elections, for example, the current self-financed candidates (which in conditions of a two-party systems, are mini-parties in themselves, and so can be used for purpose of this analogy) are Trump and Sanders, which are both incredibly bad in new and exciting ways)

Let me ask you this, would you like it if, say, American banks, were financing one of your presidential candidates?

Also, neither Trump or Sanders are actually self funding. Sanders isn't a billionaire, but his funding comes from lots of small donations, grassroots donations pretty much. Trump isn't completely self funding (though he says he does), but his style of fundraising is similar to that of Sanders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2016, 10:58:41 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2016, 10:09:10 am

You guys let foriegn banks have influence over your elections? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-19/le-pen-party-taps-russian-banks-to-fund-2017-election-campaign Pfft........

Quote

The anti-euro, anti-immigration party, whose loan requests are turned down by French banks

That seems to be your problem

Consider our UKIP tried to avoid having any alliance with FN but after our Czechi breki got poached by the Pres the alliance was forced, and here too the FN was forced into alliance with Moscow

Hilariously the EU is making the FN grow stronger by trying to stamp it out, instead of merely trying to control it themselves

dood Merkelmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 11:08:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2016, 10:37:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 10:21:45 am

Well, you see, the only other alternative is to get domestic banks to influence your elections, and that's, like, bad.

The third variant, self-financed parties, is 1) not usually possible, and 2) tend to result in complete uncompromising madmen coming to power in the party (in modern USA's elections, for example, the current self-financed candidates (which in conditions of a two-party systems, are mini-parties in themselves, and so can be used for purpose of this analogy) are Trump and Sanders, which are both incredibly bad in new and exciting ways)

Let me ask you this, would you like it if, say, American banks, were financing one of your presidential candidates?

They already do, more news at 11. Has been that way since the democracy in Russia begun, really. I mean, why do you think that "foreign agents" law was put into effect?

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2016, 10:37:08 am

Also, neither Trump or Sanders are actually self funding. Sanders isn't a billionaire, but his funding comes from lots of small donations, grassroots donations pretty much. Trump isn't completely self funding (though he says he does), but his style of fundraising is similar to that of Sanders.

I thought it would be obvious in context, that I meant "self-funding" in a sense that there aren't any big investors, like banks, that can strongly influence them a la establishment candidates. Lots of small donators can't influence jack shit out of their donation target without a unifying organization structure, just like lots of small workers can't influence jack shit out of their job providers without a union.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 08, 2016, 01:04:46 pm

Spoiler: Looks like EU may impose personal sanctions on Putin (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdC0ykpVIAA087S.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdC0ynLUUAAvwZF.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2016, 01:25:57 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 08, 2016, 01:22:51 pm

So is Hungary's veto going to last, or will this 'deal' with Turkey get pushed through anyway?

Of course not, it's fucking EU. They'll just make them vote again and again, until they vote "the right way".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 08, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

That's hardly an EU-specific phenomenon. Them 'voting "the right way"' will have to be reached by finding a workable compromise - it's just standard politics, nothing more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2016, 01:52:02 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 08, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

That's hardly an EU-specific phenomenon. Them 'voting "the right way"' will have to be reached by finding a workable compromise - it's just standard politics, nothing more.

EU - because China does it too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2016, 05:07:08 pm

Stunning documentary footage of the inner workings of Moscow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wFKNy0MZQ)
And reminder that Russian grannies will liberate corrupt eurovision

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 02:55:47 am

Yeah, because in every democracy, as soon as someone says no, you're not allowed to try to make a compromise, you just have to drop everything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 09, 2016, 03:32:11 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 02:55:47 am

Yeah, because in every democracy, as soon as someone says no, you're not allowed to try to make a compromise, you just have to drop everything.

Wait, EU is a democracy? (I assume you're referencing the EU vote situation)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 03:47:23 am

Ok, let's clear things up: A) You can't really compare vote by countries in the council and vote by referendum. For starter, it's much easier to ask Orban 'What would it take for you to vote yes?' than to ask a whole people. Also you can't really just hope to change Orban's vote by making him voting again. And as much as I'd love to lock him in a room and starve him until he press the yes button that also liberate a sandwich, current EU treaties don't allow that.

B) Compromise is not a dirty word. If someone says no to A, so you offer him A' that gives him some concessions, and he agrees to it, it's fine. Even in the Irish case, they didn't simply re-vote on the exact same text, they got concessions (most notably keeping the 'one commissioneer per country' rule, which I don't like but do keep smaller country like Ireland more clout). Not to say the whole thing wasn't problematic for other reasons, but just setting fact straight.

C) The EU is not (yet) a country, so it's not a democracy, no. Not a dictatorship either. It's some ungodly abomination between an international organization, a trade area, a group of country and a country. I was comparing the process to what happen in democracies, because LW was comparing it to what happen in China. I mean, if Russia had manage that, Ireland would have voted 97% yes the first time. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 09, 2016, 06:54:10 am

(http://i.imgur.com/Et1mPsg.gif)
"Ah, who is it dares interupt me in my progress?"
"Why 'tis I, little Johnny Bull, protecting a little spot. I clap my hands on, and damn me if you come any further, that's all!"

Top lel
Centuries later nothing's changed, don't touch my islands
Also love Napoleon's expression, just all "are you really doing this right now"

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 03:47:23 am

Ok, let's clear things up: A) You can't really compare vote by countries in the council and vote by referendum. For starter, it's much easier to ask Orban 'What would it take for you to vote yes?' than to ask a whole people. Also you can't really just hope to change Orban's vote by making him voting again. And as much as I'd love to lock him in a room and starve him until he press the yes button that also liberate a sandwich, current EU treaties don't allow that.

Democracy is hard, let's just remove constitutional limits to our Monarchs and call it a day

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 03:47:23 am

B) Compromise is not a dirty word. If someone says no to A, so you offer him A' that gives him some concessions, and he agrees to it, it's fine. Even in the Irish case, they didn't simply re-vote on the exact same text, they got concessions (most notably keeping the 'one commissioneer per country' rule, which I don't like but do keep smaller country like Ireland more clout). Not to say the whole thing wasn't problematic for other reasons, but just setting fact straight.

They rejected the Lisbon Treaty which surrendered their sovereignty via referendum, which was supposed to happen for all nations, but after France and the Netherlands rejected the EU Constitution via referendum the EU found it was smarter to simply bypass referendums altogether and solve "the Irish problem" by offering exclusions from the powers they took from them in the referendum they gave them when they voted for the answer they didn't like with a new EU Constitution that was by design unintelligible to laymen. That sounds like the same convoluted bullshit democracy China uses, where yeah you can vote all you like for the options we don't really tell you clearly are about and are all options we want or you don't vote at all, it's "your choice."

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2016, 03:47:23 am

C) The EU is not (yet) a country, so it's not a democracy, no. Not a dictatorship either. It's some ungodly abomination between an international organization, a trade area, a group of country and a country. I was comparing the process to what happen in democracies, because LW was comparing it to what happen in China. I mean, if Russia had manage that, Ireland would have voted 97% yes the first time. :p

EU, twinned with China and Russia on democracy, with the added benefit of being above international law due to semantic magic

gj gg wp

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 09, 2016, 10:23:45 am

Loudwhispers, what is your opinion on Gibraltar and the referendum?

How do you feel about the fact that your name now shows up on predictive text on my iPhone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 09, 2016, 01:03:49 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 09, 2016, 10:23:45 am

Loudwhispers, what is your opinion on Gibraltar and the referendum?

The Spanish threatening to close their border with Gibraltar whilst they let in thousands of illegal migrants = priceless
Other than that I don't really mind what they do and if the Spanish try to invade then the Umayyad Caliphate of Britain shall prevail

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 09, 2016, 10:23:45 am

How do you feel about the fact that your name now shows up on predictive text on my iPhone?

Pretty Malvinas really

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2016, 05:05:34 pm

Likely the kid will not go to jail (which I already said in my post concerning the incident, back when it had just happened). Which is a good thing, because child detention (at least detention in a regular jail) is in breach of international treaties on child rights, and because a minor can not be held fully accountable for his actions, from a pedagogic viewpoint. But I doubt there'll be no consequences at all. I don't know if Sweden has juvenile detention centers, or if they only have child psychiatric observation and treatment facilities (in the Netherlands we have both, with the line between them blurry), but I'm quite certain that the kid will have to go through the entire youth psychiatry circus until he's 18.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 10, 2016, 06:45:46 pm

In one of the corruption trials that is currently being held, one of the accused was found to have long conversations with the king of Spain over whatsapp, it came out recently. This is currently being investigated by the police.





... by which I mean they're currently investigating who actually leaked that, goes without saying.  Remember, the king of Spain cannot be held liable for anything. He's totally immune to prosecution, as per the constitution.  ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 03:08:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/incest-and-necrophilia-should-be-legal-youth-swedish-liberal-peoples-party-a6891476.html

S W E D E N

I LOVE MY EUROPA

NUKE US NOW

Quote

It called for the repeal of several laws to make consensual sex between brothers and sisters aged over 15 legal, as well as allowing people to "bequeath" their bodies for intercourse after death without fearing the perpetrator would be prosecuted.
Ms Johnsson said: “You should get to decide what happens to your body after you die, and if it happens to be that someone wants to bequeath their body to a museum or for research, or if they want to bequeath to someone for sex, then it should be okay.”
It is not the first time similar proposals have been raised in Europe.
In 2014, the German Ethics Council also called for an end to the criminalisation of incest between siblings, after examining the case of a man who was jailed for having four children with his sister.
The council argued that the risk of disability in children was not sufficient to warrant a law putting couples in “tragic situations”, and that decriminalising incest would not fuel the spread of the “very rare” practice.

Yeah see this is what I'm talking about, this is why I support cultural enrichment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 11, 2016, 03:21:01 pm

Quote

...as well as allowing people to "bequeath" their bodies for intercourse after death without fearing the perpetrator would be prosecuted.
Ms Johnsson said: “You should get to decide what happens to your body after you die, and if it happens to be that someone wants to bequeath their body to a museum or for research, or if they want to bequeath to someone for sex, then it should be okay...”

Who in the fuck would ever do this? Unless they were paid, I guess, and the problems with that are too numerous to count. It's like buying and selling organs, but without any of the mitigating factors. At least that purchased kidney is going to save someone's life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 11, 2016, 03:25:18 pm

Quote from: Baffler on March 11, 2016, 03:21:01 pm

Quote

...as well as allowing people to "bequeath" their bodies for intercourse after death without fearing the perpetrator would be prosecuted.
Ms Johnsson said: “You should get to decide what happens to your body after you die, and if it happens to be that someone wants to bequeath their body to a museum or for research, or if they want to bequeath to someone for sex, then it should be okay...”

Who in the fuck would ever do this? Unless they were paid, I guess, and the problems with that are too numerous to count. It's like buying and selling organs, but without any of the mitigating factors. At least that purchased kidney is going to save someone's life.

People with fetishes for it? There are people out there who fantasize about being copulated with post-mortem and would sign up for it on that basis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 11, 2016, 03:42:00 pm

I'd like to point out, for context, that this is the extremist neoliberal party - or rather the related youth organisation. They only have any supporters at all because they devolved from the social-liberal, centrist and countryside-focused Centre Party and they still have a lot of heritage support from rural voters who are too stubborn to change their voting habits even though the state-level Centre Party no longer represents their interests or their "traditional" opinions.

(I still call the the Centre party even though they just changed their name from that to just "the Liberals". I'm not comfortable using that epithet for them yet though as it's too associated with Folkpartiet Liberalerna ("The People's Party the Liberals") in my mind.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 11, 2016, 04:04:40 pm

the comments. dear lord the comments!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 11, 2016, 04:46:35 pm

There are people whose fetish is anything, damnit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2016, 04:53:54 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 11, 2016, 04:46:35 pm

There are people whose fetish is anything, damnit

There's something about anything that compares to nothing. It's my everything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 11, 2016, 06:47:00 pm

I really don't get what you guys consider so horrible about incest and necrophilia. It's not like anyone is forcing you to participate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 11, 2016, 06:50:55 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 11, 2016, 06:47:00 pm

I really don't get what you guys consider so horrible about incest and necrophilia. It's not like anyone is forcing you to participate.

I can understand where people who like incest are coming from.

Necrophilia I literally cannot comprehend.

Being turned on by the idea of a necrophiliac having sex with your cold dead body is so far beyond any level I can even begin to understand that it makes me queasy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 11, 2016, 06:53:35 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 11, 2016, 06:50:55 pm

I can understand where people who like incest are coming from.

Necrophilia I literally cannot comprehend.

It's the same for me, really - but why does it matter? I just genuinely don't care. As long as they don't bother me with that stuff, let them do what they want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 07:57:17 pm

The argument to be made here is that if these things were made legal then they could be abused. Theoretically. Incest above 18 should be legal if consensual, I think,  but necrophilia is rather unnecessary. You're dead, and you can fantasize about someone boning your corpse just as easily without that law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 11, 2016, 08:11:27 pm

What about the actual necrophiliacs though? There's no reason to deny them their preferred acts if it happens with consent all-around. And that's precisely what that youth organization was suggesting, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 08:18:02 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 11, 2016, 06:53:35 pm

It's the same for me, really - but why does it matter? I just genuinely don't care. As long as they don't bother me with that stuff, let them do what they want.

Helgo this is how you end up with a society of incestuous corpse sprunting pedophile enablers. Sheer apathy towards degeneracy unfolding before your eyes, where there is no taboo to anything but consent; "it's not like anyone is forcing you to participate." By the time you're getting to people having sex with corpses and siblings you're much too far gone in a mindset far too unhealthy, and you will interact with those around you differently and they will too, they will be parents and teachers, politicians and police, directors and executives, managers and doctors, binmen and plumbers, students and models, all walks of life all degenerating and centering their lives around a mental illness allowed to develop. And you sincerely believe people live as isolated reptiles? No, we are social animals, in a social world, where social media is integrated into everything.

Quote

The council argued that the risk of disability in children was not sufficient to warrant a law putting couples in “tragic situations”, and that decriminalising incest would not fuel the spread of the “very rare” practice.

This is how your country ended up with bestiality brothels and refugee children sex rings. Did no Minister in Berlin or Cologne stop to actually think about what they were doing, was it really so that the only thing that mattered was "dood it doesn't affect u. don't jugdge. its lifestyl choice. no one forc u to do it."
The very effectiveness of progressivism (the underlying philosophical principle, not the political affiliation) is that steady, gradual progressive change from individuals within society effect more change than great revolutions. This is steady, gradual degeneration, and the principle is the same.
People usually want to be moral and decent. Lust and sexual pleasure override moral decency almost any given time it is allowed to. That's why in the big European capitals, London especially included, sexual slavery, bug chasing, chemsex, pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia are all varying degrees growing problems. The very fact that necrophilia and incest is even up for question shows it is already having a detrimental effect on normal dialogue and normalization is underway. Jews, Christians, Muslims, for thousands of years have been tackling sex's role in making or shattering people. All three recognize it as the most powerful of passions and not something to be self-loathing over (certain Catholics aside), all three recognize it is a habit that grows stronger with habit and grows weaker with temperance and will. The underlying psychological principle is simple: Sexual novelty seeking feels good, engenders addiction to it which leads to desensitization and so to achieve the selfsame biological reward escalation is required. When you already start off the deep end the depths you must sink to to escalate grow worrying.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 07:57:17 pm

The argument to be made here is that if these things were made legal then they could be abused. Theoretically.

If that is the only argument you can make then the apathy has already affected you as well, "theoretically." If they are legal, they will be abused, there is no question about it. I brought this up just now with Germany's bestiality brothels; they decriminalized bestiality and the brothels appeared.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 07:57:17 pm

Incest above 18 should be legal if consensual, I think,  but necrophilia is rather unnecessary. You're dead, and you can fantasize about someone boning your corpse just as easily without that law.

Such movements are as much for the living as those wishing for postmortem fantasy. Never place your faith in man, place your faith in Robot and T-Rex.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2016, 08:27:51 pm

Bluh :P

@LW: You also had that UK politician who, allegedly, stuck his member into the cranium of a deceased suid.

Also, you Europeans are wierd.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 08:33:50 pm

Cameron in all likelihood did not lie in bacon, around bacon or on bacon or any variation thereof, as they were unfounded allegations from an unknown source written in a book by a man who had a bone to pick after he was betrayed by Cameron. However, you don't need to resort to probable lies to find putrid behaviour by our politicians or civil servants. They've turned blind eyes to rent boys, slave girls and inbreeding in protected communities and individuals plenty of times, I don't believe any civil servants or MPs have been caught conducting in bestiality or necrophilia, though pedophilia certainly (one with rent boys, two with boys doing work experience trying to enter politics and one who was being covered by the same police who covered for the Pakistani grooming gangs)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* When it happens already, it's hard to say that making it legal under specific circumstances would result in a great detriment to society. Is it because these things are "just wrong"? Because while I can sympathize with the feeling,  it's not really something laws should be based on. Homosexuality used to be considered moral degeneracy. *shrug* Taboos exist where it harms people. If no-one's getting hurt, why make it illegal in this case?

I said theoretically because I have doubts about rape getting any worse by making incest legal over 18, and I have doubts about mass 'corpse-sex' document forging operations going into full swing without being noticed. It'll certainly be made into porn though.

What I don't understand is why you people made bestiality legal before necrophilia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* When it happens already, it's hard to say that making it legal under specific circumstances would result in a great detriment to society.
Is it because these things are "just wrong"? Because while I can sympathize with the feeling,  it's not really something laws should be based on.
Homosexuality used to be considered moral degeneracy.

Because making moral failings legal would result in them becoming commonplace, we don't make homicide legal just because it happens and it will most likely always happen - the goal is reduction to as much insignificance as possible. Making necrophilia and incest legal will cause great detriment to society because it will become normalized and indulged by people in ever increasing numbers. When they grow desensitized to it they will need to seek escalation. They will not disappear from society once they have fucked a dead body or their parents or their siblings, they will carry those experiences with them and in how they interact with everyone and that will in turn affect them and how they act. Every man, woman and child sends ripples through society, it's why we always have great concern over not having sexual predators teach our young. How does it not cause great detriment? We are arguing over decriminalizing incest and necrophilia. This used to be the topic of jokes, a sign of going to far by satirical standards. It is not jokes anymore, it is reality. This is how the process works.
And oh great, compare incest and pedophilia to homosexuality. Nothing problematic about that, yeah we're really fighting for a civil movement here to save the most noble causes of necrophilia and incest, how will society function without necrophilia and incest. Whilst we're at it why don't we drag emancipation through the mud, or should we already kickstart the love is love and Mr. Bones' won't be needing his bones campaigns now? It's 2016 after all :P

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* Taboos exist where it harms people. If no-one's getting hurt, why make it illegal in this case?

How can you even argue no one is getting hurt with a straight face? Nah, just shrug. Addiction is healthy, it doesn't affect you man, dude corpses lmao *shrug*

Taboos exist where it harms people

Says it all really

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

I said theoretically because I have doubts about rape getting any worse by making incest legal over 18, and I have doubts about mass 'corpse-sex' document forging operations going into full swing without being noticed. It'll certainly be made into porn though.

We really are already at the point of consent based morality where anything goes as long as it's between consenting adults, and even then people are testing the limits on what constitutes an adult. This is why I only place my faith in Robot and T-Rex. Nope, there will be no impact on people having sex with their parents or siblings, dead or alive. Nope! None at all, they will be perfectly fine.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

What I don't understand is why you people made bestiality legal before necrophilia.

The fools of guac who thought it hurt no one, wouldn't become commonplace - yeah they were wrong. You know, animal brothels, which I'm dismayed to find are already being marketed as a "lifestyle choice" in Denmark. Dysfunction begets dysfunction, but who cares, it's the current year don't judge~

OH FOR FUCKS SAKES THEY HAVE A LEGAL TEAM TO PROTECT THEIR LOOPHOLE
Behind every one of them was hundreds of thousands of Germans who just *shrugged* because dude, it doesn't hurt you it's 2016

This is why I only place my faith in Robot and T-Rex, because mankind never fails to fail me

Sweden yes

*EDIT
Removed the link to ZETA, the zoophile group looking to expand German sexual rights in new diverse ways. They have their own god damn legal team. There were lawyers willing to attach their name to them. Does anyone honestly believe these people exist in vacuums?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2016, 09:45:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

*EDIT
Removed the link to ZETA, the zoophile group looking to expand German sexual rights in new diverse ways. They have their own god damn legal team. There were lawyers willing to attach their name to them. Does anyone honestly believe these people exist in vacuums?

Good idea on removing the link, don't want to risk getting banned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:50:54 pm

The horrendous thing about it was how normal the website looked, how it really was framed as some sort of civil rights and animal welfare movement. It might've been entirely SFW but I'm not taking that risk. That right there has struck me a more terrible blow than a thousand shovel dogs. At least the people covering up the rape gangs and the sexual slavery knew what they were doing was wrong, this is another level of moral void entirely that has long since passed the deep end beyond the event horizon. In the end it's not when it shocks you that you're worried, it's when it doesn't, when everyone walking around touting lifestyle choices becomes commonplace. They have their own bloody legal team!

*EDIT
I do wonder ultimately if there is any point to sensible indignation at what the Scandis and Germans are doing, after all they've already won with tacit support and their actions either already legal or on the horizon. I'm not sure where the Anglos stand on this, they're ahead and behind on some things, I just assume it's much like the transmission of tropical diseases between islands, it doesn't matter which island it came from originally if it's just getting deadlier and more infectious each time it retransmits. There are just so many things wrong with Europe, Europeans and everything that it just all needs a reset, the economics of mass migration and the politics don't make sense, the demographics, nah - but they're normal people (excluding certains), they'd reset everything. Though I am reminded disturbingly of vibrant birds energetically setting up their nests in the Chernobyl plant. Alas, maybe clinging to what is right and wrong even when the majority stop even asking the question (literally can't even), maybe that is more important to the individual than dude corpses lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Because making moral failings legal would result in them becoming commonplace, we don't make homicide legal just because it happens and it will most likely always happen - the goal is reduction to as much insignificance as possible. Making necrophilia and incest legal will cause great detriment to society because it will become normalized and indulged by people in ever increasing numbers. When they grow desensitized to it they will need to seek escalation. They will not disappear from society once they have fucked a dead body or their parents or their siblings, they will carry those experiences with them and in how they interact with everyone and that will in turn affect them and how they act. Every man, woman and child sends ripples through society, it's why we always have great concern over not having sexual predators teach our young. How does it not cause great detriment? We are arguing over decriminalizing incest and necrophilia. This used to be the topic of jokes, a sign of going to far by satirical standards. It is not jokes anymore, it is reality. This is how the process works.
And oh great, compare incest and pedophilia to homosexuality. Nothing problematic about that, yeah we're really fighting for a civil movement here to save the most noble causes of necrophilia and incest, how will society function without necrophilia and incest. Whilst we're at it why don't we drag emancipation through the mud, or should we already kickstart the love is love and Mr. Bones' won't be needing his bones campaigns now? It's 2016 after all :P

Your slippery slope argument is on a slippery slope there, LoudWhispers. Let me make one thing clear though; I'm not arguing for necrophilia here. I'm arguing, if anything, for the 'love is love' bit (though honestly it's as much about the tack you're taking as anything else; I know, I know, I'm bad and someone is wrong on the internet. forgive my obsession with ensuring people argue the way I want them to? :P). Why is consensual sex between adults who happen to be blood-relatives (hell, brother and sister are actually farther apart(~25% genetic makeup shared) than parent and child(~50%), and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal) so detrimental to society? Don't give me 'how can it NOT be?' bullshit. Seriously, LW. I respect you, and I understand where you're coming from. I, too, am a Gryffindor (http://sortinghatchats.tumblr.com/). But explicate. Specifically. How does it harm society? In what way will finding out my wife is my sister affect how I see my boss, or my next-door neighbor?

Because you wanna know why I brought up homosexuality? Because you sound almost exactly like the people who were and some of those who are advocating against it. Just because it's within the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) now, makes it seem like they're on utterly different levels. Society functioned for a long-ass time without legal homosexuality, too. In fact, they argued it would lead to pedophilia and necrophilia(where the hell did you get that I was equating it to pedophilia? Typo/spellcheck?), which makes this someone ironic in a fucked up way. But you're basically making the argument that people are only doing it for the kink, and when that isn't enough, they'll have to go farther(Slaaneshi followers, one and all). "Cuz', you know, that's what happened with homosexuality! Look at bestiality! That's in Europe, which legalized homosexual marriage long before America. Now it's only a matter of time before we're all screwing our goats too." I compare it to them because people in the past compared it to them. I really don't see what's wrong with a consent based culture. Hell, there's a significant portion of people wishing we'd give more of a damn about consent. If that was the primary morality indicator in our culture, I don't think it'd be so terrible.

Furthermore, we don't make homicide legal because it has very obvious negative repercussions; people die. The same does not hold true of incest between consenting adults. Perhaps there are more disadvantages than advantages to legalizing it. Just saying it's a moral failing doesn't mean shit though. 'Not-being-Christian' is considered a moral failing by some. Like, it used to be something you could be killed for. So...yeah.

Moral degeneracy arguments hold exceedingly little sway with me, because I'm a Ravenclaw too, and prefer to think as Ravenclaw when I can. Which is to say, how does it harm people more than the current law? Necrophilia, sure, I can see a ripe number of ways for abuse and misuse and oddities. I disagree with you as to the scale they'll occur at, I think, ('Honey, when I die...I'm okay if you have sex with my body' is usually met with 'What the fuck made you think about that or think I'd want to?') but it still doesn't produce enough benefit compared to cost to be made legal. But give me that argument. That argument can actually be held, rather than just kinda flopped out like a dead fish to reek. The argument from 'BUT IT'S WRONG' goes nowhere, in either direction.

Furthermore, I thought the reason we didn't want sexual predators teaching children was the risk of having them sexually prey upon those young. Not to sustain the moral fabric of society.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

How can you even argue no one is getting hurt with a straight face? Nah, just shrug. Addiction is healthy, it doesn't affect you man, dude corpses lmao *shrug*

Taboos exist where it harms people

Says it all really

So...games are addicting. Or do you just mean drugs? Because addiction does tend to affect other people. Necrophilia is taboo because of sanctity of human remains, disease possibilities embedded into our subconscious, danger reactions to 'hey the person I was mating with just died', and so on. Homosexuality used to be taboo. So I guess it harms people? Right? I mean, again, necro is a no-go in my view. But the incest thing just needs a bit of an adjustment to get rid of some seriously concerning possibilities for abuse with minors. Which is why I'm guessing you're focused on it, because one way or another, you know there's a better argument to be made for the incest, if not one that you think is better than yours.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

We really are already at the point of consent based morality where anything goes as long as it's between consenting adults, and even then people are testing the limits on what constitutes an adult. This is why I only place my faith in Robot and T-Rex. Nope, there will be no impact on people having sex with their parents or siblings, dead or alive. Nope! None at all, they will be perfectly fine.

Oh...no? People are okay with BDSM and teh gay now? This is such a failing of society, to respect people's individual choices? Loud Whispers, again, I respect you, but the 'pushing the limits of what constitutes an adult' is the worrying part for me. Not the 'do what you want if everyone involved is alright with it'. Sometimes a lot more people are involved than it appears at first glance. But I just don't get the problem with consent-based morality here.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

What I don't understand is why you people made bestiality legal before necrophilia.

The fools of guac who thought it hurt no one, wouldn't become commonplace - yeah they were wrong. You know, animal brothels, which I'm dismayed to find are already being marketed as a "lifestyle choice" in Denmark. Dysfunction begets dysfunction, but who cares, it's the current year don't judge~

Which dysfunction begot bestiality? And which one made that? Where did it start?
There are issues with people pushing too far forward at a breakneck pace without having their roll slowed by conservative elements(which is the entire point of their existence, as far as I'm concerned; progressive elements push society forward, conservative ones keep them from tripping over themselves in their haste to improve. Idealists and pragmatists, basically, is what I want.), but the appropriate reaction is not to decide that the whole thing might as well be destroyed. You're starting to sound almost more reactionary than conservative or moderate, with the 'tear it down and start anew' stuff. Their line typically goes along the line of 'society is going to crumble because of progressivism and the Cathedral' and moral degeneracy stuff. Maybe I just had you pegged in the wrong hole this entire time? Reactionaries can make good points at times, after all.

Although I have to say, dolphins are fucking shitheads about sex. If you really feel like you want to reward their asshole behavior, it's hard to find a reason to say no, considering how smart they are. I mean, other than the communication issues (aka consent yes this makes a good excuse for preventing bestiality on grounds other than moral degeneracy and I'll use it shut up) and the difficulties in managing that feat with an aquatic animal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* When it happens already, it's hard to say that making it legal under specific circumstances would result in a great detriment to society.
Is it because these things are "just wrong"? Because while I can sympathize with the feeling,  it's not really something laws should be based on.
Homosexuality used to be considered moral degeneracy.

Because making moral failings legal would result in them becoming commonplace,

So, what you're saying is that most people are hidden zoo- and necrophiliacs or would become such if given the chance? Most people would turn to incest if it was legal? Because legality is the bigger problem for most people?
Incest is a taboo for at least all mammals. We don't need laws to keep it from becoming widespread.

Regarding bestiality: It is legal in Germany, France, parts of the USA, Spain, Belgium, Hungary, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan and Mexico. Many of those forbid distribution and production of bestiality porn and almost all have laws regarding animal protection that forbid forcing an animal to bestiality or hurting animals for sexual pleasure.

Quote

we're really fighting for a civil movement here to save the most noble causes of necrophilia and incest,

First off: It's not "fighting".
Second: Not every law is about a "noble cause". Only because this kind of argument is used in many cases were there is a case against outdated moralistic laws that doesn't mean it's a correct argument to use. Moralistic laws aren't only wrong when they're outdated.

Quote

The fools of guac who thought it hurt no one, wouldn't become commonplace - yeah they were wrong. You know, animal brothels, which I'm dismayed to find are already being marketed as a "lifestyle choice" in Denmark. Dysfunction begets dysfunction, but who cares, it's the current year don't judge~

Any sources on those bestiality bordellos? Wikipedia says the existence of those (in Germany) was pure conjecture at the time when they were a topic, first spread by a freesheet in Denmark. If all sources are not fit for posting here, I'd think that would be quite suspicious. Legal brothels certainly need to be registered, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 12, 2016, 05:23:47 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* When it happens already, it's hard to say that making it legal under specific circumstances would result in a great detriment to society.
Is it because these things are "just wrong"? Because while I can sympathize with the feeling,  it's not really something laws should be based on.
Homosexuality used to be considered moral degeneracy.

Because making moral failings legal would result in them becoming commonplace,

So, what you're saying is that most people are hidden zoo- and necrophiliacs or would become such if given the chance? Most people would turn to incest if it was legal? Because legality is the bigger problem for most people?
Incest is a taboo for at least all mammals. We don't need laws to keep it from becoming widespread.

I think the point here is that people are very plastic in their beliefs and habits, so their sexual habits can - and will - be changed by social influences. So if you have a lot of friends or role models who are into bestiality/incest, you very likely would be socially forced to do it as well, even if in different circumstances you wouldn't have even considered it.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Regarding bestiality: It is legal in Germany, France, parts of the USA, Spain, Belgium, Hungary, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan and Mexico. Many of those forbid distribution and production of bestiality porn and almost all have laws regarding animal protection that forbid forcing an animal to bestiality or hurting animals for sexual pleasure.

"forbid forcing an animal to bestiality"? And how, do they determine that? Animals can't give consent, you know.

EDIT: unfortunate implications text removed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 08:00:37 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 12, 2016, 05:23:47 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 11, 2016, 09:35:52 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 09:07:09 pm

*shrug* When it happens already, it's hard to say that making it legal under specific circumstances would result in a great detriment to society.
Is it because these things are "just wrong"? Because while I can sympathize with the feeling,  it's not really something laws should be based on.
Homosexuality used to be considered moral degeneracy.

Because making moral failings legal would result in them becoming commonplace,

So, what you're saying is that most people are hidden zoo- and necrophiliacs or would become such if given the chance? Most people would turn to incest if it was legal? Because legality is the bigger problem for most people?
Incest is a taboo for at least all mammals. We don't need laws to keep it from becoming widespread.

I think the point here is that people are very plastic in their beliefs and habits, so their sexual habits can - and will - be changed by social influences. So if you have a lot of friends or role models who are into bestiality/incest, you very likely would be socially forced to do it as well, even if in different circumstances you wouldn't have even considered it.

I heavily doubt it will catch on.

Quote

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Regarding bestiality: It is legal in Germany, France, parts of the USA, Spain, Belgium, Hungary, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan and Mexico. Many of those forbid distribution and production of bestiality porn and almost all have laws regarding animal protection that forbid forcing an animal to bestiality or hurting animals for sexual pleasure.

"forbid forcing an animal to bestiality"? And how, do they determine that? Animals can't give consent, you know.

The default assumption is probably that the animal did not consent, but there have been cases where it was obvious that the animal in question did not suffer trauma and was perfectly fine with their human partner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Your slippery slope argument is on a slippery slope there, LoudWhispers.

I'm not arguing from a slippery slope, this is very simple cause and effect. Decriminalizing bestiality, necrophilia and incest makes it a more common occurrence, independent of the slippery slope being covered in lube.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Let me make one thing clear though; I'm not arguing for necrophilia here. I'm arguing, if anything, for the 'love is love' bit (though honestly it's as much about the tack you're taking as anything else; I know, I know, I'm bad and someone is wrong on the internet. forgive my obsession with ensuring people argue the way I want them to? :P). Why is consensual sex between adults who happen to be blood-relatives (hell, brother and sister are actually farther apart(~25% genetic makeup shared) than parent and child(~50%), and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal) so detrimental to society? Don't give me 'how can it NOT be?' bullshit. Seriously, LW. I respect you, and I understand where you're coming from. I, too, am a Gryffindor (http://sortinghatchats.tumblr.com/). But explicate. Specifically. How does it harm society? In what way will finding out my wife is my sister affect how I see my boss, or my next-door neighbor?

We are already at the point of questioning whether parent and child relationships are harmful. There is no happening, it is. Even if we rule out parent-child incest we are talking siblings or cousins who do not have the same relationships as they would strangers, there is a great impact on the mind of both a bigger brother and a little sister who engage in sex. On the individual level there is no equal power dynamic and on the familial level there can only be deconstruction. I don't really understand how Western family units operate as they don't really have a uniform standard even on a national basis, which I assume must be something to do with Western individualism. But for people who have family units, what goes on in family does not happen independently of family pressure, and that's not just arranged marriages.

Quote

The authors conclude that the characteristics of brother–sister incest and its associated psychosocial distress did not differ from the characteristics of father–daughter incest. These findings suggest that theoretical models and clinical practices should be adjusted accordingly and that sibling incest should not necessarily be construed as less severe or harmful than father–daughter incest.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0145213402003654

I'm not even going to talk about the risks of inbreeding:
 The medical risks of first cousin marriages include higher rates of infant mortality, birth defects, learning difficulties, blindness, hearing problems and metabolic disorders.
As adults, the children born from first cousin marriages are at increased risk of miscarriage or infertility. A third of children affected die before their fifth birthday. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html)
Love is not love, the love between student and pupil, parent and child, sibling and sibling, lover and lover - you cross the line it ends in damage psychological.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Because you wanna know why I brought up homosexuality? Because you sound almost exactly like the people who were and some of those who are advocating against it.

So you brought it up because of tone policing, which I give zero fucks about. I don't care what I sound like, I don't care what people assume I'm saying, this is not the first time I've had to ask people to actually read what I'm saying for what I'm saying and not what it feels like I'm saying.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

"Cuz', you know, that's what happened with homosexuality! Look at bestiality! That's in Europe, which legalized homosexual marriage long before America. Now it's only a matter of time before we're all screwing our goats too." I compare it to them because people in the past compared it to them. I really don't see what's wrong with a consent based culture. Hell, there's a significant portion of people wishing we'd give more of a damn about consent. If that was the primary morality indicator in our culture, I don't think it'd be so terrible.

Into the blackness

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Moral degeneracy arguments hold exceedingly little sway with me, because I'm a Ravenclaw too, and prefer to think as Ravenclaw when I can.

I don't understand Harry Potter hats.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Furthermore, I thought the reason we didn't want sexual predators teaching children was the risk of having them sexually prey upon those young. Not to sustain the moral fabric of society.

The two and one are the same, we had so many thousands of children sexually exploited for decades by predators, but it was the authorities in charge who knew of it and covered it up that most intrigue me. The cultures they were raised in that made them turn a blind eye? Odd is a polite way of saying so.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

So...games are addicting. Or do you just mean drugs? Because addiction does tend to affect other people.

Addiction is addiction, it is just the measure of people's capacity to habitually engage in harmful behaviour for positive stimulus in a way that reinforces the behaviour to seek more positive stimulus and so on irregardless of the adverse consequences.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Necrophilia is taboo because of sanctity of human remains, disease possibilities embedded into our subconscious, danger reactions to 'hey the person I was mating with just died', and so on. Homosexuality used to be taboo.

Yep you're totally not comparing homosexuality to necrophilia gj m8 gj. You're proving very adept at talking right past my points but disease, sanctity of remains is just one component here, I worry for the dead but the living walk amongst the living and those living who fuck dead corpses; that changes their mental health and they continue to interact with the living.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Oh...no? People are okay with BDSM and teh gay now? This is such a failing of society, to respect people's individual choices?

And necrophilia, bestiality, pedophilia and incest.
If you truly love someone you don't respect their choices when they are self-destructive ones, if you stand by and respect your friend's choice to become a heroin addict you are not their friend.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Loud Whispers, again, I respect you, but the 'pushing the limits of what constitutes an adult' is the worrying part for me. Not the 'do what you want if everyone involved is alright with it'. Sometimes a lot more people are involved than it appears at first glance. But I just don't get the problem with consent-based morality here.

The problem is it is a system of morality that is the most plastic and the limits of what constitutes an adult will continually be pushed without firm opposition.

The people pushing for bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia, most I would assume are none who actually participate in any of the three; just judging by the Swedes none of them appeared to be having sex with relatives dead or alive. Yet they must push the limits, because that is the toleran way.

Quote

The current scandal dates back to last year’s federal election, when a German researcher revealed that one of the party’s leaders, Juergen Trittin, had signed off on a 1981 local party platform arguing that sex between adults and children, in some cases, be legal. Trittin quickly acknowledged that he had made a mistake, blaming it on an oversight—but conservative political opponents were quick to describe the Greens’ actions as “repulsive.” This came on the heels of other revelations—which had prompted the report in the first place—that another senior Green Party figure had once written about his “flirtations” with children while working in a kindergarten. Largely as a result, the party only received a disappointing 8.4 percent of the popular vote.
One popular reference point, both in West Germany and elsewhere, was the writings of Wilhelm Reich, a leftist Austrian psychiatrist who died in 1957. An influential pupil of Freud, Reich’s The Mass Psychology of Fascism argued that the rise of authoritarianism could be tied to the “suppression of the natural sexuality of the child.” And West Germany had another prominent symbol for the movement: an anarchist journalist named Peter Schult, who remained a figure of reverence on the left despite the fact that he openly described himself as a “pederast.” In 1976, he was convicted of bringing a young girl home with him with the intention of sexually abusing her.
The period’s experimental sexual climate led to shocking projects, some of which were only publicized decades later. In the late 1960s, for example, a prominent sexual researcher named Helmut Kentler created a pilot program in which he arranged for illiterate young teenagers to move in with three known West Berlin pedophiles in the hopes that they could then learn to live “proper, unremarkable lives.” In a later report he explained that he believed the “three men would do so much to help ‘their’ boys because they had a sexual relationship with them.” 
During the late 1970s and early 1980s, groups like the Indianerkommune (which fought in favor of “autonomy” for children) and the German Study and Work Group on Pedophilia made surprising inroads into German political parties. A youth group affiliated with the FDP, the country’s liberal party, adopted pro-pedophilia resolutions in 1980. During last year’s election, an FDP politician—who is now a mother of three—had to withdraw her candidacy after one of the Greens’ researchers discovered an early essay of hers describing how her “wishes and needs can only be satisfied by a child, especially a girl.” The pro-pedophilia movement had even more success within the German Green Party, which was formed in 1980 as a vehicle for various left-wing causes, and actually managed, as the Trittin scandal showed, to have its goals taken up by segments of the party itself.

Quote

Jürgen Trittin was listed as “legally responsible” for a 1981 election pamphlet, which called for the decriminalisation of sex acts between adults and children “that occur without the use or threat of force.”
Mr Trittin, the co-leader of the party and a former German environment minister, told a press conference in Berlin on Monday: “It was also my fault and my responsibility that these mistaken demands endured for so long.” He added: “This position is false, was false and lasted too long.”
Asked how he viewed it then, Mr Trittin replied: “I saw it as problematic”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10312930/Germanys-Green-Party-leader-regrets-campaign-to-legalise-paedophilia.html

It all becomes a game of pushing what consent means and what an adult means.

Quote

(1) Whosoever engages in sexual activity with a person under fourteen years of age (child) or allows the child to engage in sexual activity with himself shall be liable to imprisonment from six months to ten years.
(2) Whosoever induces a child to engage in sexual activity with a third person or to allow third persons to engage in sexual activity with the child shall incur the same penalty.
(3) In especially serious cases the penalty shall be imprisonment of not less than one year.
(4) Whosoever
1.  engages in sexual activity in the presence of a child;
2.  induces the child to engage in sexual activity, unless the act is punishable under subsection (1) or subsection (2) above;
3.  presents a child with written materials (section 11(3)) to induce him to engage in sexual activity with or in the presence of the offender or a third person or allow the offender or a third person to engage in sexual activity with him; or
4.  presents a child with pornographic illustrations or images, audio recording media with pornographic content or pornographic speech,
shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.
(5) Whosoever supplies or promises to supply a child for an offence under subsections (1) to (4) above or who agrees with another to commit such an offence shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.
(6) The attempt shall be punishable; this shall not apply to offences under subsection (4) Nos 3 and 4 and subsection (5) above.
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#StGB_000P182 - 176, Child Abuse

It's already been pushed to 14.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Which dysfunction begot bestiality? And which one made that? Where did it start?

Where it started is honestly anyone's guess, who exported bestiality brothels to who first? So many European cities are on the suspect list, if I had to hazard a guess I'd say it'd be one of the Danish, Swedish or German ones but it could've been anywhere, as this shit is everywhere.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

There are issues with people pushing too far forward at a breakneck pace without having their roll slowed by conservative elements(which is the entire point of their existence, as far as I'm concerned; progressive elements push society forward, conservative ones keep them from tripping over themselves in their haste to improve. Idealists and pragmatists, basically, is what I want.), but the appropriate reaction is not to decide that the whole thing might as well be destroyed. You're starting to sound almost more reactionary than conservative or moderate, with the 'tear it down and start anew' stuff.

Well the whole issue here is that the progressives degenerate, not progress, the conservatives sellout, not conserve, and the reactionaries are only reacting and will clearly always be fighting only after they've long since already lost. No reaction is appropriate, as reaction is pushing back instead of pulling in a new direction, something actually required. Hence why the reset by cultural enrichment needs to happen as smoothly and quickly as possible, to pull Europe in a new direction.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Their line typically goes along the line of 'society is going to crumble because of progressivism and the Cathedral' and moral degeneracy stuff. Maybe I just had you pegged in the wrong hole this entire time? Reactionaries can make good points at times, after all.

Eh, at this point I could probably describe myself as having been in all the political camps at some point. Also there's a joke to be made about pegging the wrong hole that I think is 2crude2lewdious to make :P

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Regarding bestiality: It is legal in Germany, France, parts of the USA, Spain, Belgium, Hungary, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan and Mexico. Many of those forbid distribution and production of bestiality porn and almost all have laws regarding animal protection that forbid forcing an animal to bestiality or hurting animals for sexual pleasure.

Even though animals are incapable of consent the law finds away to morally justify it when the law is decided by moral invalids; and so it becomes "forcing an animal to bestiality," which is about as moral as pedophilia between "willing children and adults."

Quote from: Sergarr on March 12, 2016, 05:23:47 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

So, what you're saying is that most people are hidden zoo- and necrophiliacs or would become such if given the chance? Most people would turn to incest if it was legal? Because legality is the bigger problem for most people?
Incest is a taboo for at least all mammals. We don't need laws to keep it from becoming widespread.

I think the point here is that people are very plastic in their beliefs and habits, so their sexual habits can - and will - be changed by social influences. So if you have a lot of friends or role models who are into bestiality/incest, you very likely would be socially forced to do it as well, even if in different circumstances you wouldn't have even considered it.

Quite so, though not even bestiality or necrophilia in particular, it's the holistic affect of addiction and social engineering that will only grow more potent as sexually maturing and malleable generations grow up in these environments. There is a biological component to mental maladies that makes people more prone to certain conditions, yet most would live their entire lives quite healthy and unaware because they suffered no experience in their lives that served to trigger any mental illness. That's for those growing up in this society, for those already participating they already have the pleasure response needed to ensure their continual habit until desensitization occurs, at which point they will need escalation.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

First off: It's not "fighting".
Second: Not every law is about a "noble cause". Only because this kind of argument is used in many cases were there is a case against outdated moralistic laws that doesn't mean it's a correct argument to use. Moralistic laws aren't only wrong when they're outdated.

I'm surprised you took to the word fighting considering the topic, but alas I forgot morals and noble causes are outdated in the current year.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 03:59:01 am

Any sources on those bestiality bordellos? Wikipedia says the existence of those (in Germany) was pure conjecture at the time when they were a topic, first spread by a freesheet in Denmark. If all sources are not fit for posting here, I'd think that would be quite suspicious. Legal brothels certainly need to be registered, right?

Never use Wikipedia for anything Antsan.

Quote

A 2011 Ministry of Justice report surveyed veterinarians and found 17 per cent of them suspected that an animal they treated had had intercourse with a human.
After we contacted the Danish government about this disturbing issue earlier this year, we received this reply from the Ministry of Foods, Agriculture and Fisheries:
The Danish government has decided that a ban on sexual relations between humans and animals shall be implemented in the Danish legislation.
Animals must be treated with respect and care and have the right to a high level of protection. When it comes to sexual relations between humans and animals there is a special concern to be taken into account, as the animals cannot consent to enter into a sexual relation with a human being. Another concern is that it can be difficult to identify and document possible physical or mental damage to the animal as a result of the sexual relation with a human being.
Yesterday, the law was finally amended as promised, bringing Denmark into line with other European countries and putting a stop to the deeply disturbing animal-sex industry.
http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/denmark-bans-bestiality/

And goodness, ZETA mocking PETA, god damn that's a new low. PETA could very well be full of shit but I'm not gonna be finding you the contact details of animal brothels.

Quote from: Covenant on March 12, 2016, 05:21:08 am

For one thing, the Pakistani community in this country already has a serious problem with birth defects and similar, because of a culture of relationships with your relations being more commonplace/acceptable. Though typically it's more often cousins than siblings. But yeah, their rates of congenital birth defects are through the roof. I can't imagine legalising incest would help in any way toward fixing that problem.

Specifically those who came from rural communities where arranged marriages to keep pure blood is desired. I'm not sure why Westerners consider siblings to be on equal footing, but I suppose it's because their family units are looser/have no emphasis on bigger and smaller siblings?
Anyways, that whole thing with a 1/3rd dying before their 5th birthday is pretty fucked up. Not to mention how the grooming gangs specifically used English girls as their sex slaves for the very reason that they wanted to keep Pakistani girls "pure" for marriage, this is unhealthy on so many levels.

*EDIT

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 08:00:37 am

The default assumption is probably that the animal did not consent, but there have been cases where it was obvious that the animal in question did not suffer trauma and was perfectly fine with their human partner.

It's already ogre

f
u
g

Sources btw

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:56:44 am

Interestingly looking up bestiality in particular whilst the Swedes debate legalizing incest and necrophilia, not too long ago they recriminalized it.

Quote

Germany plans to outlaw Zoophilia, a practice of humans having sex with animals (bestiality), despite protests from groups promoting the practice.
The German coalition government has sanctioned a fine of up to €25,000 against anyone who attempts to or have sexual acts with animals, German daily Taz reported.
A proposed ban on sex with animals will be an amendment to the German Animal Welfare Act. The decision comes almost three months after Germany's Agriculture Minister Ilse Aigner promised that sex with animals should be deemed an offence and a punishable act in the future. She said that any person causing injuries to animals by such practices should be fined.
"The coalition wants to ban use of animals for sexual activities or sexual acts of third parties, thereby forcing artwidrigem behaviour," said Hans-Michael Goldmann, the chairman of the Agriculture Committee.
The amendment is to to be put to the Bundestag in December.
Passing of the law banning sex with animals will reinstate a similar, old law that existed in Germany until 1969, when sex with animals was considered unnatural and was illegal.
100,000 Zoophiles in Germany
The German Zoophilia group Zeta (Zoophiles committed to tolerance and enlightenment) opposes the proposed amendment.
Zeta chairman Michael Kiok, 52, who says he is "emotionally and sexually" attracted to his dog, Cessie, told the Taz: "I guess we are more than 100,000 zoophiles in Germany, "but added many are in hiding.
Animals are not children. Adult animals have an adult sexuality, which they want to live. Animals live in the here and now. If they are doing well and they have fun, they get no later psychological problems."
His comments have drawn criticism from the German animal welfare groups.
Anyone who takes such behaviour of animals as a justification to satisfy his own sexual desire in them needed urgently a therapist," Thomas Schroeder, president of the German Animal Welfare said.
However, Schroeder who is completely against sexual practices with animals also said that the ban was just a way of government to cover up many of its shortcomings in the animal welfare work areas such as animal husbandry, breeding, torturing of animals and the use of animals in circuses.
"The ban was only a fig leaf to cover up the failure to act in many other areas of animal welfare. We think it is inconsistent to evaluate such behavior only as a misdemeanor and punishable by a fine," he said.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/animal-sex-ban-germany-bestiality-zoophilia-law-408843

Wew lads there might be hope for you yet

Quote

Germany's highest court Thursday threw out a challenge to the country’s laws banning sexual relations with animals brought by two plaintiffs identified only as “Mr. F” and “Mrs. S,” the Associated Press reported.
The plaintiffs claimed they felt sexually attracted to animals, and argued Germany’s bestiality ban violated their right of “sexual self-determination.” The Federal Constitution Court said the law banning sexual activity with animals wasn’t disproportionate, and protecting animals from being sexually assaulted was a legitimate goal.
Sexual activity with animals are misdemeanors in Germany, carrying a possible $27,850 fine upon conviction. Germany’s Parliament voted to criminalize the use of animals for sexual activity for the first time as recently as 2013, the New York Times reported.
“We see animals as partners and not as a means of gratification,” Michael Kiok, chairman of the Zoophile Engagement for Tolerance and Information group, said at the time to the BBC. “We don't force them to do anything. Animals are much easier to understand than women.”
Bestiality brothels, or “erotic zoos,” where people could visit to abuse animals such as goats and llamas were reported to have been spreading fast throughout Germany in 2013, the Daily Mail reported. “Mere concepts of morality have no business being law,” Kiok told the Daily Mail.
http://www.ibtimes.com/german-bestiality-law-challenge-ban-sex-animals-thrown-out-court-2312885

Such utter disregard for morality... To see it triumph even if only one small step with a 27k fine... Cultural enrichment is working.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 12, 2016, 11:09:05 am

And i thought you Europeans weren't as crazy as us Americans. :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:10:19 am

Quote

Bestiality brothels, or “erotic zoos,” where people could visit to abuse animals such as goats and llamas were reported to have been spreading fast throughout Germany in 2013, the Daily Mail reported.

Quote

Bestiality brothels, or “erotic zoos,” where people could visit to abuse animals such as goats and llamas were reported to have been spreading fast throughout Germany in 2013, the Daily Mail reported.

Quote

the Daily Mail reported.

What was that about believable resources?
Never use the Daily Mail for anything, Loud Whispers. ::)

Quote

She said that any person causing injuries to animals by such practices should be fined.

Read carefully.

Quote

Even though animals are incapable of consent the law finds away to morally justify it when the law is decided by moral invalids; and so it becomes "forcing an animal to bestiality," which is about as moral as pedophilia between "willing children and adults."

Yeah, I know, this stuff is complex. Still different from flat-out prohibiting zoophilia in general.

Regarding "consent" given by animals: We do much much worse stuff to them on a regular basis that only a minority of people ever complain about. You are not a part of that minority.
Arguing that consent suddenly becomes important when sex is involved when the same isn't true when its about keeping them in confined spaces for their entire life (which, as opposed to killing them doesn't even have any purpose beyond personal enjoyment) seems inconsistent.

Look, I personally don't care whether people have sex with animals. I care when animals get hurt. That's reflected in the laws about animal welfare and that's fine.

I am of the opinion that animals are capable of giving consent. Comparing them to children is absurd – they do reach an age of sexual maturity where their sexuality is fully developed. If that sexuality includes humans, who cares? Well, maybe some zoophiliac, but not me.

Quote

I'm surprised you took to the word fighting considering the topic, but alas I forgot morals and noble causes are outdated in the current year.

Nope, morals are not outdated, moralistic laws are. Morals are a personal matter. I value my own morals, doesn't mean I want them to be law.
"Noble cause" is just code for "I don't want to explain why it's very important to me personally".
"Fighting" implies some kind of active struggle. I haven't seen that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Hey, Loud Whispers, that first article is from 2012. The law did not pass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Your slippery slope argument is on a slippery slope there, LoudWhispers.

I'm not arguing from a slippery slope, this is very simple cause and effect. Decriminalizing bestiality, necrophilia and incest makes it a more common occurrence, independent of the slippery slope being covered in lube.

Either you're not aware of the implication of your argument, or you're deliberately trying to spin it as something better than it is, then.

You have quite overtly stated that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, 'having to go further' and so on, so forth. You have not provided any evidence for this particular claim.

Decriminalizing anything will make it more common - to one degree or another - because there's a certain percentage of people who want to do it but are deterred by the threat of punishment, no matter if that something is murder, wearing mixed fabrics, homosexuality, eating apple pie or necrophilia. Decriminalization will result in a bump among this particular group.

Incidentally, there's a rarer opposite effect, where a certain people who did X won't do it anything, because their major motivation was breaking the taboo/laws.

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

It's not a matter of what you're arguing against, it could, again, be apple pie, or X, or heterosexual marriage. The logic underlying the argument is faulty.

Only a relatively small handful of people can have inclinations towards any particular deviant (as in non-vanilla, not a moral description) behaviors. I wouldn't want to screw some guy, and animal, or a corpse even if it was legal; a gay man, for that matter, wouldn't want to nail a woman of either species and metabolic viability just because it's legal and most of the people around him are doing it - the only significant change is for bisexuals, where banning either available option is disincentivizing - but all the same if a bisexual falls for a man or a woman and lusts after them won't be changed if the option is illegal.

Quote

I'm not even going to talk about the risks of inbreeding:
The medical risks of first cousin marriages include higher rates of infant mortality, birth defects, learning difficulties, blindness, hearing problems and metabolic disorders.
As adults, the children born from first cousin marriages are at increased risk of miscarriage or infertility. A third of children affected die before their fifth birthday.

And yet it's legal for women after 40 to have unprotected sex, even though the risks are, likewise, increased. And if you agree with that, then by the same line of thought any non-interracial sex should be banned to preserve hybrid vigor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 12, 2016, 11:40:50 am

please don't get this thread locked guys.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

This is a fallacy. That the argument itself is the same is not automatically bad when the matter is a different one. You'll have to prove that the argument is bad again, regarding this matter, if you want to disprove it, just like LW has to prove that it is good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:50:32 am

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

And seeing how abusive relationships between completely unrelated people exist I don't see how that would be particularly relevant between siblings. I don't see weird power dynamics between siblings more often than elsewhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Hey, Loud Whispers, that first article is from 2012. The law did not pass.

You think I don't read my own articles? Ouch. The law did pass, the second article is explicitly in regard to a challenge on the ban, which has passed now for Denmark and Germany. Germany's fine is insufficient carrying no jail time, but that can be achieved sooner and easier now.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:10:19 am

What was that about believable resources?
Never use the Daily Mail for anything, Loud Whispers. ::)

That's why I used the BBC, International Business Times, PETA and so on. If you have selective vision over sources that's not in my care at all.

Quote

A 2011 Ministry of Justice report surveyed veterinarians and found 17 per cent of them suspected that an animal they treated had had intercourse with a human.
After we contacted the Danish government about this disturbing issue earlier this year, we received this reply from the Ministry of Foods, Agriculture and Fisheries:
The Danish government has decided that a ban on sexual relations between humans and animals shall be implemented in the Danish legislation.
Animals must be treated with respect and care and have the right to a high level of protection. When it comes to sexual relations between humans and animals there is a special concern to be taken into account, as the animals cannot consent to enter into a sexual relation with a human being. Another concern is that it can be difficult to identify and document possible physical or mental damage to the animal as a result of the sexual relation with a human being.
Yesterday, the law was finally amended as promised, bringing Denmark into line with other European countries and putting a stop to the deeply disturbing animal-sex industry.
http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/denmark-bans-bestiality/

There we go. Actual progress.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Quote

She said that any person causing injuries to animals by such practices should be fined.

Read carefully.

Quote

The decision comes almost three months after Germany's Agriculture Minister Ilse Aigner promised that sex with animals should be deemed an offence and a punishable act in the future.

Goodness, the selective reading is palpable. She is clearly not in favour of bestiality.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Yeah, I know, this stuff is complex. Still different from flat-out prohibiting zoophilia in general.

Not at all.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Regarding "consent" given by animals: We do much much worse stuff to them on a regular basis that only a minority of people ever complain about. You are not a part of that minority.

I don't justify immorality with immorality, that way immorality lies. I will not justify allowing people to rape animals because of shechita slaughter, which I also want to stop. If you want me to stand by and allow people to rape animals just because you will be endlessly disappointed because I will not back down on this.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Arguing that consent suddenly becomes important when sex is involved when the same isn't true when its about keeping them in confined spaces for their entire life (which, as opposed to killing them doesn't even have any purpose beyond personal enjoyment) seems inconsistent.
Look, I personally don't care whether people have sex with animals. I care when animals get hurt. That's reflected in the laws about animal welfare and that's fine.

Your apathy is not a shocking reveal and it's not reflected in all of the laws regarding animal welfare, so it is not fine. And I thought we established that consent based morality was a foolish endeavour that resulted in everyone justifying immorality like animal sexual abuse? Which surprise, here we go, it's being used to justify two kinds of animal abuse! Wonderful.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

I am of the opinion that animals are capable of giving consent. Comparing them to children is absurd – they do reach an age of sexual maturity where their sexuality is fully developed. If that sexuality includes humans, who cares? Well, maybe some zoophiliac, but not me.

This line of thinking is so painfully stupid I'm pretty certain it took a few days off of my lifespan. I don't care about consent based morality and I certainly don't care for apathy based morality, where you want the only people to care about what's right or wrong to be the people doing wrong.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

If that sexuality includes humans, who cares? Well, maybe some zoophiliac, but not me.

We are stewards of these creatures, wholly dependent upon us, and yet so many people just sat by and said "who cares. Maybe zoophiliacs, but not me." You can tell a lot about a society by how they treat those dependent upon them, and it's especially sad to find multiple ruled by such apathy to those who would sexually abuse them in the current year. The more you look into this and realize how many tens of thousands of officials have had to cut this all under the rug in just the last decade alone, it really strikes you how and why they acted so inhumanly, or why it was not enough for them to be apathetic - they had to try and stop others from stopping it too.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Nope, morals are not outdated, moralistic laws are. Morals are a personal matter. I value my own morals, doesn't mean I want them to be law.

And so it becomes that law becomes meaningless, morality even less so; it's not a personal matter as its impacts are immediate to everyone we interact with in accordance to our morals. The reason why we have moral law is because trusting in the personal moral of man is a foolish endeavour; humans want to be moral, but sexual passions override such conscious desire. When morality is abandoned by its society and becomes interchangeable with personal etiquette then it all falls apart with bestiality, necrophilia, incest, pedophilia garnering a simple response: "Who cares?" And when the victims appear, brushed are they under the rug. No one cares.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

"Noble cause" is just code for "I don't want to explain why it's very important to me personally".

Gay rights activists, emancipation activists, suffragettes, abolitionists; noble causes all explained well and explained easily, your dismissal is a strawman of the weakest calibre in defence of an ignoble cause.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

"Fighting" implies some kind of active struggle. I haven't seen that.

http://www.thelocal.de/20130201/47711
Because you are acting like an ostrich with its head in the sand, simultaneously uncaring and unseeing, using your lack of sight to justify an apathy which you use to justify not looking. It loops round and round

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 12, 2016, 11:09:05 am

And i thought you Europeans weren't as crazy as us Americans. :o

Heads or tails up on that one, your crazy is our crazy 10 years from now, our crazy is your crazy 10 years from now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2016, 12:53:00 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:50:32 am

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

And seeing how abusive relationships between completely unrelated people exist I don't see how that would be particularly relevant between siblings. I don't see weird power dynamics between siblings more often than elsewhere.

That's a faulty line on questioning - what you should be looking for is weird power dynamics happening more often than siblings in sexual relationships compared to unrelatives in sexual relationships.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 12, 2016, 12:56:26 pm

Would you ban relationships between adults of very different ages (say, 20 and 50) if they tended to have weird power dynamics more often than people of similar ages?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2016, 01:08:04 pm

"More often" is a weasel number.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 12, 2016, 01:10:08 pm

So... care to rephrase what you said without using it? Or do you actually have numbers on how often this happens, or how often would be enough to make it illegal?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

They can, but it's a lot less likely, particularly once they're both adults. The elder is likely to be out of the house by the timenthe younger turns 18, and twins are unlikely to have those dynamics, and that's if they grew up together, where sexual attraction is usually prevented via the Westermarck effect.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

I'm not arguing from a slippery slope, this is very simple cause and effect. Decriminalizing bestiality, necrophilia and incest makes it a more common occurrence, independent of the slippery slope being covered in lube.

scrdest said it better than I could. It most definitely is a slippery slope argument, because you are literally saying that legalizing these things will cause things to slide farther. That is a part of your argument. The other part is 'it's just wrong', as far as I can tell.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

We are already at the point of questioning whether parent and child relationships are harmful. There is no happening, it is. Even if we rule out parent-child incest we are talking siblings or cousins who do not have the same relationships as they would strangers, there is a great impact on the mind of both a bigger brother and a little sister who engage in sex. On the individual level there is no equal power dynamic and on the familial level there can only be deconstruction. I don't really understand how Western family units operate as they don't really have a uniform standard even on a national basis, which I assume must be something to do with Western individualism. But for people who have family units, what goes on in family does not happen independently of family pressure, and that's not just arranged marriages.

Okay, first off, your dank memes are becoming too much for me. Or just the way you're trying to put it in a way that doesn't stress you out too much to talk about it. But I honestly cannot decipher 'There is no happening, it is' with any confidence. There's a great impact on the mind of any pair of people who have sex, and this goes for childhood friends as much as it would cousins. Hell, I see my cousins less than I see most of my friends, so other than familial pressure, which I think is a good thing as it provides a non-criminalizing disincentive to incest(also, cousin incest is already legal; are you saying that should be illegal too? If so, that's fine as an opinion to hold, but most of the world doesn't think it's a crime worthy of going to jail, from what I can tell), I'm not seeing very many cases where it's bad when actually consensual. When it's not, that's bad, certainly. Continue to take a specially close look at any rape or sexual assault cases involving incest, that's for damn sure. But it's not the government's job to help your family regulate itself. What of little brother big sister? What about twins? What about gay incest? That's certainly not at risk of inbreeding, and I'm not exactly convinced that it'll make rape go less reported or something if someone's brother rapes them, given the stigma about men being raped and family pressures that already exist. And furthermore, I have a question for you. The couple/siblings whose criminal trials brought this matter up, having not grown up together; do you believe they deserve to go to jail for not breaking up once they found out? Honestly, do you? Take a moment to think about it, as I think you and I agree on this point though the heat of the moment and argument might persuade you to believe otherwise. I think they're stupid for having kids rather than adopting or something, but we consider having children to be a right for people to have or something like that I dunno. I don't believe they deserve to go to jail for not considering 'accidental blood relations' to be an automatic 'whelp we have to get divorced/break up now that we know'.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

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The authors conclude that the characteristics of brother–sister incest and its associated psychosocial distress did not differ from the characteristics of father–daughter incest. These findings suggest that theoretical models and clinical practices should be adjusted accordingly and that sibling incest should not necessarily be construed as less severe or harmful than father–daughter incest.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0145213402003654

I'm not even going to talk about the risks of inbreeding:
 The medical risks of first cousin marriages include higher rates of infant mortality, birth defects, learning difficulties, blindness, hearing problems and metabolic disorders.
As adults, the children born from first cousin marriages are at increased risk of miscarriage or infertility. A third of children affected die before their fifth birthday. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html)
Love is not love, the love between student and pupil, parent and child, sibling and sibling, lover and lover - you cross the line it ends in damage psychological.

No shit abuse relationships and inbreeding cause awful shit.. I'm fine with laws that say "Hey, don't have kids, shitheads". But should we also ban people who have dominant genetic disorders from having kids, or chromosome defects that may result in a greater likelihood of children with birth defects?

Study looks interesting and I'll be reading it to see what it talks about. (I already knew that cousin-incest caused birth defects too :P; sweet spot is supposedly at third cousins, apparently)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

So you brought it up because of tone policing, which I give zero fucks about. I don't care what I sound like, I don't care what people assume I'm saying, this is not the first time I've had to ask people to actually read what I'm saying for what I'm saying and not what it feels like I'm saying.

It's not about tone policing, it's about it being the exact same style of argument. And that since we still find homosexuality acceptable, we need secondary forms of evidence for it to be considered valid. I've read what you're saying, and up until those links you'd been going off of moral degeneracy, slippery slope, and 'how can you not see how bad it is you must be infected by the homosexual agenda tolerans agenda'. And since all of those can work but don't necessarily work, I have to ask you to argue in a different way. Which you did! Links to science articles and everything. Thank you.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Into the blackness

Better than a culture based around not having that consent

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

I don't understand Harry Potter hats.

Sorry. :/ Basically, my morals come from my guts and instincts about what's right, but I try and find logical systems of reasoning that explain/articulate why that is, particularly for situations outside the typical bounds of what I can be confident about whether I think it's right or wrong. I only get to the 'but...it's wrong' when that fails/people are being obtuse (not you, just hypothetical dickwads I work myself up about when I'm in a bad mood).

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

The two and one are the same, we had so many thousands of children sexually exploited for decades by predators, but it was the authorities in charge who knew of it and covered it up that most intrigue me. The cultures they were raised in that made them turn a blind eye? Odd is a polite way of saying so.

I feel like that has more to do with pack thinking and 'protecting your own' even when 'your own' are cancerous lesions you really need to banish forevermore from the clan, but I'm not actually sure and you have a point, so I'll concede the point.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Addiction is addiction, it is just the measure of people's capacity to habitually engage in harmful behaviour for positive stimulus in a way that reinforces the behaviour to seek more positive stimulus and so on irregardless of the adverse consequences.

Right, but you're presupposing that this is harmful behavior and that people will get addicted to it. More than people normally get addicted to sex, presumably. Considering physical intimacy is on the bottom-most layer of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Again, should we then ban video game consumption over a certain limit, to try and curtail addiction? Does Dwarf Fortress need to be regulated, considering all the things we do to dwarves, and the way it warps our way of viewing the world, how we see our colleagues and fellows?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

Necrophilia is taboo because of sanctity of human remains, disease possibilities embedded into our subconscious, danger reactions to 'hey the person I was mating with just died', and so on. Homosexuality used to be taboo.

Yep you're totally not comparing homosexuality to necrophilia gj m8 gj. You're proving very adept at talking right past my points but disease, sanctity of remains is just one component here, I worry for the dead but the living walk amongst the living and those living who fuck dead corpses; that changes their mental health and they continue to interact with the living.

You're stating that it changes their mental health without providing physical evidence for it. Someone who wants to do that is already going to have whatever is wrong with their head stay wrong with their head regardless of whether they do it or not. You wanna explain to me why I shouldn't compare the argument against homosexuality with the argument against necrophilia? Other than it being...'problematic'?(something I never thought you would ever try and use, and maybe you still aren't but then seriously LW what are you doing) Like, you're just presenting it as some sort of weird evil influence that's everpresent and magically affects people around them that they interact with. Just making something legal doesn't mean it's going to all of a sudden have people going 'oh so you're into dead people that's perfectly normal and fine'. I don't know how much I'm willing to bet that there's already people with legal teams advocating for it being legalized/normalized, though, just like bestiality. The fact that the issue came up is evidence of that. I still think it should be illegal, mind you. I just think that you're wrong about why. :P

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

And necrophilia, bestiality, pedophilia and incest.
If you truly love someone you don't respect their choices when they are self-destructive ones, if you stand by and respect your friend's choice to become a heroin addict you are not their friend.

Ah, of course. Which is why we send our children to have their gay cured at bible camps. Are you really doing this out of a love for humanity or something? "I respect you, guy I don't know, but you and your sister's decision to sleep together is really worrying me, and I think some good hard jailtime would do you some good so you can think about your actions."
Heroin=/=weird creepy sex. Usually. Sometimes they overlap. >.>

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

The problem is it is a system of morality that is the most plastic and the limits of what constitutes an adult will continually be pushed without firm opposition.

Would you rather have Kantian moral imperatives? Does someone being related to you mean they aren't an adult anymore? What the fuck, dude?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

The people pushing for bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia, most I would assume are none who actually participate in any of the three; just judging by the Swedes none of them appeared to be having sex with relatives dead or alive. Yet they must push the limits, because that is the toleran way.
It all becomes a game of pushing what consent means and what an adult means.

Yeah. As opposed to pushing what 'morality' and 'being patriotic enough' means. Maybe it's because we live in places that have opposite problems, where our federal government only recently made gay marriage legal, there's rape/sexual assault going on fucking everywhere without even traditionalist immigrants coming in droves, and shit like the PATRIOT act exists, but I find the alternatives to consent-based morality to be the more disturbing. At least the ones I can think of. Maybe what you're hoping for will be more palatable; could you explain/describe it to me(taboos still exist in consent-based culture, they're just personal matters; you don't really get to control other people's lives, but you definitely don't have to go sit in it. At least the one I'd like to have)?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

It's already been pushed to 14.

Yeah, that's...I don't fuckin' know. I can't even really say anything because I don't know enough about all the secondary laws. I know that in my state even if it's not considered statutory rape when the participants are within two years of age and one's a minor, one's an adult, that it can still be considered 'contributing to sexual deviancy' or something. If that's fourteen with an adult, rather than between minors (which would still be kinda fucked up but at least it would be somewhat understandable, if they're hopefully not ridiculously far apart in age(I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore)), then that's...pretty fucked.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Well the whole issue here is that the progressives degenerate, not progress, the conservatives sellout, not conserve, and the reactionaries are only reacting and will clearly always be fighting only after they've long since already lost. No reaction is appropriate, as reaction is pushing back instead of pulling in a new direction, something actually required. Hence why the reset by cultural enrichment needs to happen as smoothly and quickly as possible, to pull Europe in a new direction.

All progress is considered moral degeneracy by it's current generation. In twenty years, you'll be considered one of the old coots lamenting how things were so much better in the old days, and in forty years, so will I("I will not have my daughter replacing her nose with a penis, damnit").

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Eh, at this point I could probably describe myself as having been in all the political camps at some point. Also there's a joke to be made about pegging the wrong hole that I think is 2crude2lewdious to make :P

You awful creature
That's a clever way to make the faces without actual smilies, tho.

SO

ON A SOMEWHAT LESS HORRIFIC NOTE ALL AROUND
....Scandinavia and the World has no EU-related news. I got nothin.

ACTUALBUTALSOFAKEEDIT: Noble cause is a matter of subjectivity, LW. The woman who refused to do her job as an employee of the United States government and give marriage licenses to gay couples thinks hers is a noble cause too. So do all her followers. What makes your opinion on this in particular correct?

We don't make laws enforce morals(or shouldn't) because that way lies authoritarianism and fascism and theocracy, and people abusing it so they can feel superior and put people down in order to feel more moral. I mean, you know, if we're going with slippery slope arguments. And possibly presumptions of evil. Not sure on that one. It's implied, certainly.

See, I know you have no trust in humanity, but nothing will function correctly if you assume people will always abuse it (which isn't false, it's just a matter of trying to reduce the abuse to a minimum while still allowing enough leeway for use in context and hoping people can get it right, usually by trying to improve the culture so that people are smarter and better in general). So we could have a consent based culture where you actually help the victims. That's a big part of it being actually consent based. And it wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 01:25:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Hey, Loud Whispers, that first article is from 2012. The law did not pass.

You think I don't read my own articles? Ouch. The law did pass, the second article is explicitly in regard to a challenge on the ban, which has passed now for Denmark and Germany. Germany's fine is insufficient carrying no jail time, but that can be achieved sooner and easier now.

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Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

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She said that any person causing injuries to animals by such practices should be fined.

Read carefully.

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The decision comes almost three months after Germany's Agriculture Minister Ilse Aigner promised that sex with animals should be deemed an offence and a punishable act in the future.

Goodness, the selective reading is palpable. She is clearly not in favour of bestiality.

Yeah, selective reading and stuff. Where did I say anything about who was in favor of what?
Note the "should". That is not an "is".

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Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Regarding "consent" given by animals: We do much much worse stuff to them on a regular basis that only a minority of people ever complain about. You are not a part of that minority.

I don't justify immorality with immorality, that way immorality lies. I will not justify allowing people to rape animals because of shechita slaughter, which I also want to stop. If you want me to stand by and allow people to rape animals just because you will be endlessly disappointed because I will not back down on this.

I'm not talking about slaughter, I am talking about pets like cats and dogs in cities.

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Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

Arguing that consent suddenly becomes important when sex is involved when the same isn't true when its about keeping them in confined spaces for their entire life (which, as opposed to killing them doesn't even have any purpose beyond personal enjoyment) seems inconsistent.
Look, I personally don't care whether people have sex with animals. I care when animals get hurt. That's reflected in the laws about animal welfare and that's fine.

Your apathy is not a shocking reveal and it's not reflected in all of the laws regarding animal welfare, so it is not fine. And I thought we established that consent based morality was a foolish endeavour that resulted in everyone justifying immorality like animal sexual abuse? Which surprise, here we go, it's being used to justify two kinds of animal abuse! Wonderful.

For someone accusing me of selective reading you ignore a lot of what I wrote while also just asserting that we "established" something when I never agreed with you.
What the heck? Did you seem me saying anywhere that sex with animals should be defended by law? No, I just say that special laws to prohibit bestiality are superfluous if laws against harming animals via sex already exist.

Quote

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

I am of the opinion that animals are capable of giving consent. Comparing them to children is absurd – they do reach an age of sexual maturity where their sexuality is fully developed. If that sexuality includes humans, who cares? Well, maybe some zoophiliac, but not me.

This line of thinking is so painfully stupid I'm pretty certain it took a few days off of my lifespan. I don't care about consent based morality and I certainly don't care for apathy based morality, where you want the only people to care about what's right or wrong to be the people doing wrong.

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:13:11 am

If that sexuality includes humans, who cares? Well, maybe some zoophiliac, but not me.

We are stewards of these creatures, wholly dependent upon us, and yet so many people just sat by and said "who cares. Maybe zoophiliacs, but not me." You can tell a lot about a society by how they treat those dependent upon them, and it's especially sad to find multiple ruled by such apathy to those who would sexually abuse them in the current year. The more you look into this and realize how many tens of thousands of officials have had to cut this all under the rug in just the last decade alone, it really strikes you how and why they acted so inhumanly, or why it was not enough for them to be apathetic - they had to try and stop others from stopping it too.

That actually makes sense for once, but still misses the point.

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This line of thinking is so painfully stupid I'm pretty certain it took a few days off of my lifespan. I don't care about consent based morality and I certainly don't care for apathy based morality, where you want the only people to care about what's right or wrong to be the people doing wrong.

Dude, I want consequentialist morality. If having sex with animals leads to animals getting hurt, it's wrong. It is not wrong in itself. End of anything I ever wanted to say about the matter.
Whether sex with animals automatically leads to animals being hurt is another matter entirely and as I stated multiple times the deciding factor in German laws is the animal being hurt, not someone having sex with an animal. What's so hard to understand here? Where is the apathy? Do I need to care about other living beings sexuality now?

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And so it becomes that law becomes meaningless, morality even less so; it's not a personal matter as its impacts are immediate to everyone we interact with in accordance to our morals. The reason why we have moral law is because trusting in the personal moral of man is a foolish endeavour; humans want to be moral, but sexual passions override such conscious desire. When morality is abandoned by its society and becomes interchangeable with personal etiquette then it all falls apart with bestiality, necrophilia, incest, pedophilia garnering a simple response: "Who cares?" And when the victims appear, brushed are they under the rug. No one cares.

Believe in whatever you want, I believe and feel differently. Morality is subjective and thus inherently personal (which doesn't make it unimportant). Law is what people negotiate to reduce the amount of damage the differences between personal morals do.

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Gay rights activists, emancipation activists, suffragettes, abolitionists; noble causes all explained well and explained easily, your dismissal is a strawman of the weakest calibre in defence of an ignoble cause.

Look, my quip about "noble cause" was just a jab at you using the term in the first place – it's nothing more than an appeal to emotion and I specifically dislike those. I do not think the matters of bestiality or incest are as important as gay rights, emancipation… whatever.

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Because you are acting like an ostrich with its head in the sand, simultaneously uncaring and unseeing, using your lack of sight to justify an apathy which you use to justify not looking. It loops round and round

I am not fighting for recognition of bestiality as a valid practice. Is that enough of a clarification? I haven't seen the struggle before and certainly it hasn't entered the mainstream. That there are a few people fighting for this is a given – I assumed you meant that it somehow entered the mainstream of at least a larger subculture in Europe. It hasn't.
If you took the time to calm down and just accept that I am not advocating for making animal abuse easier you might find that you could save the time you would otherwise spend to berate me.

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 12:53:00 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 11:50:32 am

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

And seeing how abusive relationships between completely unrelated people exist I don't see how that would be particularly relevant between siblings. I don't see weird power dynamics between siblings more often than elsewhere.

That's a faulty line on questioning - what you should be looking for is weird power dynamics happening more often than siblings in sexual relationships compared to unrelatives in sexual relationships.

Yes, that's right, but as I lack these data and see no particular reason to assume that there is much difference I'm stuck with what I said as the best approximation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Either you're not aware of the implication of your argument, or you're deliberately trying to spin it as something better than it is, then.

Or I just have a different argument to the one everyone keeps feeling I'm making.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

You have quite overtly stated that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, 'having to go further' and so on, so forth. You have not provided any evidence for this particular claim.

I have not made the claim that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, the principle is biological and psychological and fundamental to addiction. The brain rewards a behaviour with pleasure, the person enjoys it, seeks that pleasure by continuing this behaviour to reinforce the habit. Desensitization occurs as the pleasure given is reduced over time which requires escalation to maintain that pleasure. Sexual pleasure is perhaps the most powerful psychological reward for destructive behaviours and most will not stop any such behaviour willingly.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Decriminalizing anything will make it more common - to one degree or another - because there's a certain percentage of people who want to do it but are deterred by the threat of punishment, no matter if that something is murder, wearing mixed fabrics, homosexuality, eating apple pie or necrophilia. Decriminalization will result in a bump among this particular group.

Glad we see eye to eye.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Incidentally, there's a rarer opposite effect, where a certain people who did X won't do it anything, because their major motivation was breaking the taboo/laws.

Most interesting. A problem to be concerned for when it is wholly illegal across Europe, not for nations where it is legal.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

No, it is not the exact same argument, and it is not the exact same matter. I am not talking about polygamy or homosexuality, I am talking about incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and bestiality.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

It's not a matter of what you're arguing against, it could, again, be apple pie, or X, or heterosexual marriage. The logic underlying the argument is faulty.

Demonstrate it.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Only a relatively small handful of people can have inclinations towards any particular deviant (as in non-vanilla, not a moral description) behaviors. I wouldn't want to screw some guy, and animal, or a corpse even if it was legal; a gay man, for that matter, wouldn't want to nail a woman of either species and metabolic viability just because it's legal and most of the people around him are doing it - the only significant change is for bisexuals, where banning either available option is disincentivizing - but all the same if a bisexual falls for a man or a woman and lusts after them won't be changed if the option is illegal.

Only if we wholly exclude learned sexual behaviours entirely from the picture. We can determine for example through neural connections in the amygdala  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm) the likelihood of someone being heterosexual or homosexual, but we cannot determine learned sexual behaviours. Is someone born sexually attracted to corpses, slurry, animals or children? For some of those I am guessing there must be biological components at work, but I do not deny the ability for learned behaviours to also apply to sex, most famously through sexual conditioning (like that one experiment where scientists managed to get a group of men to respond with sexual arousal at the sight of shoes by alternating between nude women and shoes, until the association between nude women and shoes was made). It is interesting to note sexual conditioning is more prevalent in men than women (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8905533_Classical_Conditioning_of_Sexual_Arousal_in_Women_and_Men_Effects_of_Varying_Awareness_and_Biological_Relevance_of_the_Conditioned_Stimulus) owing to differences in how the genitals elicit pleasure, and the majority of observed necrophiliacs, pedophiles and zoophiliacs are men. If we create the conditions to allow sexual conditioning for self-destructive fetishes or even worse, ones that harm others, they will develop as they did in Denmark or the UK.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

And yet it's legal for women after 40 to have unprotected sex, even though the risks are, likewise, increased. And if you agree with that, then by the same line of thought any non-interracial sex should be banned to preserve hybrid vigor.

It is legal for women after 40 to have unprotected sex, but the chances of a child being born are very low at 40 and after 45 it will become very hard to become pregnant naturally, having to defer to egg donors (who will not carry the high risk of birth defects or miscarriage of a 40 year old or the simple failure rate of a 45 year old). I would always caution women who want children to have them early, or seek adoption or IVF or surrogates, but the simple reason why we don't criminalize unprotected sex for over 40 year olds is because this law would be somewhat pointless as most over 40s have useless eggs and this law would be quite hard to enforce, as there are many over 40 year old couples.

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About one in 200 babies born to women aged 40 or over have Down's syndrome. This compares with one in 700 babies born with mums aged 35 to 39, and one in 1,500 babies born to mums aged 20 to 24.

This compares to our south-asian communities where amongst married 1st cousins 1/3 children born from their wedding don't even live to see their 5th birthday. 1 in 200 having Down's syndrome out of a large group of people you'd have to seriously inconvenience versus probable death or life with debilitating disease out of a practice very easily ended? That is an aversion reinforced by psychology? Much more achievable, much more meaningful protection.
And on the topic of hybrid vigour, we do not yet fully understand how it works and why it sometimes fails, producing genetic illnesses between a mixed race couple where neither had a history of it, or why the Icelandics have very healthy genes despite being an isolated homogenous island. There is some sweet spot between being too closely related (the risk of inheriting recessive genetic diseases increases) and being too different in relation (where hybrid vigour can come with new genetic diseases). Finding and allocating everyone their perfect genetic match would be a logistical nightmare, outlawing anything but racial mixing would be chaos as we can't even properly define racial categories that everyone would neatly fit in, especially in today's globalized worlds where everyone is a bit of this and that but not anything in particular, it would constitute either a horrendous failure or a horrendous dystopia for very little gain (selection pressure matters more in this regard, or genetic screening which is currently illegal in most countries, perhaps all).
Incest though pretty reliably produces children who will die before or after birth quite shortly or else live with much sickness mental or physical, traits which they can pass to their children and so on. It is very easily stopped as family is not an abstract, gargantuan broad group like race or over 40s, and it's usually a self-regulating social process anyways so you need only spot outliers rather than spot every blade of grass in a field.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

You have quite overtly stated that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, 'having to go further' and so on, so forth. You have not provided any evidence for this particular claim.

I have not made the claim that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, the principle is biological and psychological and fundamental to addiction. The brain rewards a behaviour with pleasure, the person enjoys it, seeks that pleasure by continuing this behaviour to reinforce the habit. Desensitization occurs as the pleasure given is reduced over time which requires escalation to maintain that pleasure. Sexual pleasure is perhaps the most powerful psychological reward for destructive behaviours and most will not stop any such behaviour willingly.

What makes you believe that enough people will participate in this behavior for such desensitization to become an issue on large scales? Should BDSM be illegal too, lest people go too far and end up injured? I mean, hell, that's a thing where consent is a fucking huge issue, because of how easy it is to abuse someone during it.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

No, it is not the exact same argument, and it is not the exact same matter. I am not talking about polygamy or homosexuality, I am talking about incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and bestiality.

You are making meaningless distinctions here. As you say below, if you aren't making the exact same argument? Then demonstrate it. None of us are advocating for necrophilia. None of us are talking about pedophilia. You are the one who keeps bringing them up as if they're relevant in these discussions of other matters.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

It's not a matter of what you're arguing against, it could, again, be apple pie, or X, or heterosexual marriage. The logic underlying the argument is faulty.

Demonstrate it.

That is the sleaziest thing I have ever seen you do, LW, and I am disappointed. What do you think this entire debate has been? "Demonstrate it". Seriously, man? Demonstrate the logical flaws, when we keep showing that it was used to argue against homosexuality, and if you think that homosexuality is alright, then there's obviously something wrong with the argument? Come on, LW. You're better than that.

At least your follow-up arguments aren't bad. I mean, there's a bunch of presumptions about self-destruction and shit but they seem reasonable assumptions to make.

Though I will still ask if telling incestuous couples they can't have kids (don't put 'em in jail for it, but don't let 'em keep the kid either, if that's what they were wanting to do; has to be put up for adoption), and/or making it so that people who didn't grow up together/knowing one another who are related by blood, aren't put in jail for having sex, would solve your issues with it. How finely tuned does it need to be?

I suppose there's another question here, which is the ever-present "Do people have a right to be stupid, under law, if it hurts no one else?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2016, 02:03:17 pm

Quote from: penguinofhonor on March 12, 2016, 01:10:08 pm

So... care to rephrase what you said without using it? Or do you actually have numbers on how often this happens, or how often would be enough to make it illegal?

The words "more often" is not used in the same way in our posts. My use was about what should be looked at too see if there is cause to be worried or horrified in the first place and what it should be compared too - ie not comparing it to siblings who aren't in a sexual relationship but comparing it to people who are in a sexual relationship.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

and parent and child can have some weird power dynamics that are better off avoided, so maybe just horizontal

That you can't see that siblings can as well is pretty horrifying.

They can, but it's a lot less likely, particularly once they're both adults. The elder is likely to be out of the house by the timenthe younger turns 18, and twins are unlikely to have those dynamics, and that's if they grew up together, where sexual attraction is usually prevented via the Westermarck effect.

In my mind this just makes it more likely to exist an elevated level on "power dynamic" relationships whenever they become sexual. The chances of two siblings. It is likelier that only one of them is astray from both the average and the Westermarck effect than two of them.

And while I have no proof of this, it is my assumption that it would be common for people to develop attraction for their siblings once they are both adults if they have known each other all their lives, and that any relationship between two of them would probably have started during their adolescence.

Lastly, family dynamics do not just magically dematerialise when people become 18. If one member has been able to abuse another through power structures it is not presumptions that they will be able to continue to do so afterwards as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 02:20:32 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2016, 11:44:43 am

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

This is a fallacy. That the argument itself is the same is not automatically bad when the matter is a different one. You'll have to prove that the argument is bad again, regarding this matter, if you want to disprove it, just like LW has to prove that it is good.

That sentence was aimed not strictly at the argument, but at LW's remark on 'tone policing' - his argument isn't compared to the objections against homosexuality to denigrate him, it's literally the same argument with 'necrophilia/bestiality' substituted for 'homosexuality'.

It's not automatically wrong, yes. But the cases are analogous; both are minority sexual behaviors that the average member of the public isn't just indifferent to, but actively squicked out by. There is no particular reason to believe either of the above as fundamentally different and special in comparison to homosexuality as far as general public's inclinations to indulge in those are concerned. And that being the case, we already have a good amount of analogous cases showing the exact opposite of what LW is arguing.

In particular, Sergarr's claim that people can be pressured into these is kinda funny - flip the perspective, and it would imply that homosexuality should be a non-issue, what with centuries of overwhelming pressure on the homosexuals to conform.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Either you're not aware of the implication of your argument, or you're deliberately trying to spin it as something better than it is, then.

Or I just have a different argument to the one everyone keeps feeling I'm making.

Then maybe you should make sure you communicate your argument correctly.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

You have quite overtly stated that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, 'having to go further' and so on, so forth. You have not provided any evidence for this particular claim.

I have not made the claim that decriminalization will lead to more people pushing the boundaries, the principle is biological and psychological and fundamental to addiction. The brain rewards a behaviour with pleasure, the person enjoys it, seeks that pleasure by continuing this behaviour to reinforce the habit. Desensitization occurs as the pleasure given is reduced over time which requires escalation to maintain that pleasure. Sexual pleasure is perhaps the most powerful psychological reward for destructive behaviours and most will not stop any such behaviour willingly.

You're assuming the behaviour is pleasurable in the first place. It isn't, for the majority of the population, quite the opposite, by basic evolutionary pressures - behaviors inconducive to reproduction can only spread if the carrier reproduces normally as well, so exclusive paraphilias are strongly selected against; in the case of non-exclusive paraphilias, avoidance improves odds of reproducing successfully for many reasons, in necrophilia/bestiality's case especially due to health risks.

Most people are way not into either; they don't receive positive feedback, but negative. If they could get sexual pleasure from the act in the first place, it's counterbalanced by the huge eww factor.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

What you've been openly arguing literally is the exact same argument that's being used against gay marriage and, earlier, decriminalization of homosexuality, as well as pretty much any decriminalization of anything ever that ran against MUH CHILLUNZ crowd.

No, it is not the exact same argument, and it is not the exact same matter. I am not talking about polygamy or homosexuality, I am talking about incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and bestiality.

Do I have to break it down to formal logic?

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

Only a relatively small handful of people can have inclinations towards any particular deviant (as in non-vanilla, not a moral description) behaviors. I wouldn't want to screw some guy, and animal, or a corpse even if it was legal; a gay man, for that matter, wouldn't want to nail a woman of either species and metabolic viability just because it's legal and most of the people around him are doing it - the only significant change is for bisexuals, where banning either available option is disincentivizing - but all the same if a bisexual falls for a man or a woman and lusts after them won't be changed if the option is illegal.

Only if we wholly exclude learned sexual behaviours entirely from the picture. We can determine for example through neural connections in the amygdala  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm) the likelihood of someone being heterosexual or homosexual, but we cannot determine learned sexual behaviours. Is someone born sexually attracted to corpses, slurry, animals or children? For some of those I am guessing there must be biological components at work, but I do not deny the ability for learned behaviours to also apply to sex, most famously through sexual conditioning (like that one experiment where scientists managed to get a group of men to respond with sexual arousal at the sight of shoes by alternating between nude women and shoes, until the association between nude women and shoes was made). It is interesting to note sexual conditioning is more prevalent in men than women (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8905533_Classical_Conditioning_of_Sexual_Arousal_in_Women_and_Men_Effects_of_Varying_Awareness_and_Biological_Relevance_of_the_Conditioned_Stimulus) owing to differences in how the genitals elicit pleasure, and the majority of observed necrophiliacs, pedophiles and zoophiliacs are men. If we create the conditions to allow sexual conditioning for self-destructive fetishes or even worse, ones that harm others, they will develop as they did in Denmark or the UK.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 01:28:46 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 11:22:49 am

And yet it's legal for women after 40 to have unprotected sex, even though the risks are, likewise, increased. And if you agree with that, then by the same line of thought any non-interracial sex should be banned to preserve hybrid vigor.

It is legal for women after 40 to have unprotected sex, but the chances of a child being born are very low at 40 and after 45 it will become very hard to become pregnant naturally, having to defer to egg donors (who will not carry the high risk of birth defects or miscarriage of a 40 year old or the simple failure rate of a 45 year old). I would always caution women who want children to have them early, or seek adoption or IVF or surrogates, but the simple reason why we don't criminalize unprotected sex for over 40 year olds is because this law would be somewhat pointless as most over 40s have useless eggs and this law would be quite hard to enforce, as there are many over 40 year old couples.

Quote

About one in 200 babies born to women aged 40 or over have Down's syndrome. This compares with one in 700 babies born with mums aged 35 to 39, and one in 1,500 babies born to mums aged 20 to 24.

This compares to our south-asian communities where amongst married 1st cousins 1/3 children born from their wedding don't even live to see their 5th birthday. 1 in 200 having Down's syndrome out of a large group of people you'd have to seriously inconvenience versus probable death or life with debilitating disease out of a practice very easily ended? That is an aversion reinforced by psychology? Much more achievable, much more meaningful protection.

And on the topic of hybrid vigour, we do not yet fully understand how it works and why it sometimes fails, producing genetic illnesses between a mixed race couple where neither had a history of it, or why the Icelandics have very healthy genes despite being an isolated homogenous island. There is some sweet spot between being too closely related (the risk of inheriting recessive genetic diseases increases) and being too different in relation (where hybrid vigour can come with new genetic diseases). Finding and allocating everyone their perfect genetic match would be a logistical nightmare, outlawing anything but racial mixing would be chaos as we can't even properly define racial categories that everyone would neatly fit in, especially in today's globalized worlds where everyone is a bit of this and that but not anything in particular, it would constitute either a horrendous failure or a horrendous dystopia for very little gain (selection pressure matters more in this regard, or genetic screening which is currently illegal in most countries, perhaps all).
Incest though pretty reliably produces children who will die before or after birth quite shortly or else live with much sickness mental or physical, traits which they can pass to their children and so on. It is very easily stopped as family is not an abstract, gargantuan broad group like race or over 40s, and it's usually a self-regulating social process anyways so you need only spot outliers rather than spot every blade of grass in a field.

Heh. Are you aware of why the chances of the child being born are low? It's because in most of the cases, mutations are lethal in utero. Fun to use, when arguing with some pro-lifers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 02:22:30 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

They can, but it's a lot less likely, particularly once they're both adults. The elder is likely to be out of the house by the timenthe younger turns 18, and twins are unlikely to have those dynamics, and that's if they grew up together, where sexual attraction is usually prevented via the Westermarck effect.

Yes, perhaps for Western families where everyone leaves to do their own thing by 18. And even for Western families, less likely, but all too likely.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

scrdest said it better than I could. It most definitely is a slippery slope argument, because you are literally saying that legalizing these things will cause things to slide farther. That is a part of your argument. The other part is 'it's just wrong', as far as I can tell.

Decriminalizing things cause more of that thing to happen is a slippery slope argument now? Even when it's demonstrably true that decriminalizing bestiality in Denmark and Germany led to an increase in bestiality? Goodness. I should fight for deregulation of the banks, turns out the notion of them reverting to old habits is just a slippery slope fallacy and actions don't have consequences.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Okay, first off, your dank memes are becoming too much for me. Or just the way you're trying to put it in a way that doesn't stress you out too much to talk about it. But I honestly cannot decipher 'There is no happening, it is' with any confidence.

I'm not dank meming, so perhaps it is just my language here. Sorry! Very sorry, this is an exhaustive topic.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

There's a great impact on the mind of any pair of people who have sex, and this goes for childhood friends as much as it would cousins. Hell, I see my cousins less than I see most of my friends, so other than familial pressure, which I think is a good thing as it provides a non-criminalizing disincentive to incest(also, cousin incest is already legal; are you saying that should be illegal too?

I thought I was very clear, yes. I don't justify immorality with immorality, that way we slip and slide into the blackness. Also I don't know where you are, but first cousins is illegal here, we have a problem not with a law court but with authorities unwilling to go so far as to even get up to prosecution or confrontation.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

If so, that's fine as an opinion to hold, but most of the world doesn't think it's a crime worthy of going to jail, from what I can tell), I'm not seeing very many cases where it's bad when actually consensual. When it's not, that's bad, certainly. Continue to take a specially close look at any rape or sexual assault cases involving incest, that's for damn sure. But it's not the government's job to help your family regulate itself. What of little brother big sister? What about twins? What about gay incest? That's certainly not at risk of inbreeding, and I'm not exactly convinced that it'll make rape go less reported or something if someone's brother rapes them, given the stigma about men being raped and family pressures that already exist.

I believe I brought up the power dynamic before, my morality is not a eugenic one, not a consent one and so on, it is as holistic as I can make it. If your family engages in abusive behaviour amongst itself and you are not in a position of power, there is no one else who can intervene beyond civil services. When abuse takes place, there is no one else who can intervene without the law, lest you find the entire family levy itself upon you. Such as with arranged marriages, where everything is consensual, but the consent is dubious and coercion is not second law.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

And furthermore, I have a question for you. The couple/siblings whose criminal trials brought this matter up, having not grown up together; do you believe they deserve to go to jail for not breaking up once they found out? Honestly, do you?

I would have sentenced them the same, their example will set society's standard

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Take a moment to think about it, as I think you and I agree on this point though the heat of the moment and argument might persuade you to believe otherwise. I think they're stupid for having kids rather than adopting or something, but we consider having children to be a right for people to have or something like that I dunno. I don't believe they deserve to go to jail for not considering 'accidental blood relations' to be an automatic 'whelp we have to get divorced/break up now that we know'.

What is deserving is a matter of judgement altogether apart from what is a just judgement, most do not get the punishments they deserve because it would be impossible to deliver any such punishment, a just one is what is delivered. They were stupid for having Kids rather than adopting, they knew what they were doing and they did it on purpose.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

No shit abuse relationships and inbreeding cause awful shit.

Yet today myself and others have had to point this out. It is a sad state of affairs really

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

I'm fine with laws that say "Hey, don't have kids, shitheads". But should we also ban people who have dominant genetic disorders from having kids, or chromosome defects that may result in a greater likelihood of children with birth defects?

I'd say it depends, most dominant genetic disorders that would be serious enough to warrant removal from the gene pool are either self-eliminating or else could be treated with cell therapy, if we ever get on to doing that. I'm just saying I'd prosecute a carer for having sex with their patient for rape.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Study looks interesting and I'll be reading it to see what it talks about. (I already knew that cousin-incest caused birth defects too :P; sweet spot is supposedly at third cousins, apparently)

Icelandians are weird

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

It's not about tone policing, it's about it being the exact same style of argument.

It's not about tone policing, it's about tone policing

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

And that since we still find homosexuality acceptable, we need secondary forms of evidence for it to be considered valid. I've read what you're saying, and up until those links you'd been going off of moral degeneracy, slippery slope, and 'how can you not see how bad it is you must be infected by the homosexual agenda tolerans agenda'.

I'm not joking when they're called the Zoophiles Committed to Enlightenment and Tolerance organization lel
And I'm not walking into that because arguments surrounding homosexuality are clearly a different matter altogether to incest, bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia, I'm not going to waste my time arguing against justifications for homosexuality that are non-applicable to incest, bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia, it's why I mock the organizations who have far more resources than they should doing so publicly.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

And since all of those can work but don't necessarily work, I have to ask you to argue in a different way. Which you did! Links to science articles and everything. Thank you.

No probs! I must be on so many google watchlists by now. Fucks sakes :D

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Better than a culture based around not having that consent

Yeah which is like choosing whether to live under Hitler or Stalin when you can choose to live anywhere in the world, why would you deliberately choose to trap yourself between hell and hell?

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Sorry. :/ Basically, my morals come from my guts and instincts about what's right, but I try and find logical systems of reasoning that explain/articulate why that is, particularly for situations outside the typical bounds of what I can be confident about whether I think it's right or wrong. I only get to the 'but...it's wrong' when that fails/people are being obtuse (not you, just hypothetical dickwads I work myself up about when I'm in a bad mood).

Ah, I don't trust gut instincts too much since they lead to good people fervently defending bad things, I've much too much seen too much of that. Plus if I ran on gut instinct I'd still be pretty anti-cultural enrichment, though now my gut instinct also agrees with me - it's cognitive dissonance at its finest, so it's better to start with logical systems and facts first and then run your way through it, the gut will follow.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

I feel like that has more to do with pack thinking and 'protecting your own' even when 'your own' are cancerous lesions you really need to banish forevermore from the clan, but I'm not actually sure and you have a point, so I'll concede the point.

Some of these people were clearly of outgroups. For example the whole molestation stuff going on in the UK for so long, Catholic Priests, famous DJs, Politicians, Grooming Gangs, the amount of outsiders required to have kept everything quiet for so long (indeed, to keep other outsiders quiet) suggests this was something else. Like that one Politician who was abusing kids being protected by the same Police protecting the Pakistani rape gangs doing the same; different people, the Police having no personal connections to either, but protection all the same.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Right, but you're presupposing that this is harmful behavior and that people will get addicted to it.

Can you demonstrate incest, bestiality, necrophilia or pedophilia as healthy behaviour? I have only seen otherwise (not rhetorical). Also I presuppose it will be addictive because that is how we are designed, it is one of the most powerful human instincts right up there to hunger.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

More than people normally get addicted to sex, presumably. Considering physical intimacy is on the bottom-most layer of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Right down there with hunger, sleep and breathing :/
Maslow puts morality at the top and look how the need for it is apathetic, nonexistent, whilst people travel half way around the world risking life and income to have sex with beautiful women in Europe, it is a powerful instinct with an acute ability to engender sexual conditioning.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Again, should we then ban video game consumption over a certain limit, to try and curtail addiction? Does Dwarf Fortress need to be regulated, considering all the things we do to dwarves, and the way it warps our way of viewing the world, how we see our colleagues and fellows?

If Dwarf Fortress was less Cacame and more Obok that argument could be made

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

You're stating that it changes their mental health without providing physical evidence for it. Someone who wants to do that is already going to have whatever is wrong with their head stay wrong with their head regardless of whether they do it or not. You wanna explain to me why I shouldn't compare the argument against homosexuality with the argument against necrophilia? Other than it being...'problematic'?(something I never thought you would ever try and use, and maybe you still aren't but then seriously LW what are you doing)

don't trigger me timbers m8

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Like, you're just presenting it as some sort of weird evil influence that's everpresent and magically affects people around them that they interact with.

No, that magical interaction is called people existing in society, working within it, talking to the people within it and so on.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Just making something legal doesn't mean it's going to all of a sudden have people going 'oh so you're into dead people that's perfectly normal and fine'. I don't know how much I'm willing to bet that there's already people with legal teams advocating for it being legalized/normalized, though, just like bestiality. The fact that the issue came up is evidence of that.

Bet your life on it they have them, legalization is the point where it already is either accepted or ambivalent by its public. Morality is a personal matter m8 don't trigger me

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

I still think it should be illegal, mind you. I just think that you're wrong about why. :P

I don't know why you think so or what's different about what you think
Please explain

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Ah, of course. Which is why we send our children to have their gay cured at bible camps.

Yup definitely not comparing fucking corpses with homosexuality

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Are you really doing this out of a love for humanity or something? "I respect you, guy I don't know, but you and your sister's decision to sleep together is really worrying me, and I think some good hard jailtime would do you some good so you can think about your actions."

Yep, really think about what you're doing.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Heroin=/=weird creepy sex. Usually. Sometimes they overlap. >.>

Yeah if you let your friend become a chemsex addict you are not their friend, just as a drug dealer is never their customer's friend

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Would you rather have Kantian moral imperatives? Does someone being related to you mean they aren't an adult anymore? What the fuck, dude?

It's almost like that's not my point

But that would be impossible

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Yeah. As opposed to pushing what 'morality' and 'being patriotic enough' means. Maybe it's because we live in places that have opposite problems, where our federal government only recently made gay marriage legal, there's rape/sexual assault going on fucking everywhere without even traditionalist immigrants coming in droves

That's racist
Lol jk I see ya, Nork American? Don't worry, you'll have our problems soon enough. Or maybe you exported them to us? Who started it all anyways ;D

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

and shit like the PATRIOT act exists, but I find the alternatives to consent-based morality to be the more disturbing. At least the ones I can think of. Maybe what you're hoping for will be more palatable; could you explain/describe it to me(taboos still exist in consent-based culture, they're just personal matters; you don't really get to control other people's lives, but you definitely don't have to go sit in it. At least the one I'd like to have)?

Top kek you never have the option to not sit in the society you live in, even if you deliberately try to remove yourself from them. If you really could, there'd be no problems with anyone anywhere at all

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

Yeah, that's...I don't fuckin' know. I can't even really say anything because I don't know enough about all the secondary laws. I know that in my state even if it's not considered statutory rape when the participants are within two years of age and one's a minor, one's an adult, that it can still be considered 'contributing to sexual deviancy' or something. If that's fourteen with an adult, rather than between minors (which would still be kinda fucked up but at least it would be somewhat understandable, if they're hopefully not ridiculously far apart in age(I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore)), then that's...pretty fucked.

Yeah it's 14 with adults as long as it's not physically forced, between parents or older relatives, and clear authority situations like prison guards, police, judges, teachers, carers e.t.c.
Keep pushing, keep revvin up

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

All progress is considered moral degeneracy by it's current generation.

No it's not

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

In twenty years, you'll be considered one of the old coots lamenting how things were so much better in the old days

No I won't
I'll be telling them how shit everything was and how every second of it I was alive
THIS IS LONDON

IT WILL ALWAYS GET WORSE  ;D

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

and in forty years, so will I("I will not have my daughter replacing her nose with a penis, damnit").

fug
the nose nose

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

ON A SOMEWHAT LESS HORRIFIC NOTE ALL AROUND
....Scandinavia and the World has no EU-related news. I got nothin.

I'm pretty certain they had a webcomic where Norway fucks a fish

Slightly on topic lol

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

ACTUALBUTALSOFAKEEDIT: Noble cause is a matter of subjectivity, LW. The woman who refused to do her job as an employee of the United States government and give marriage licenses to gay couples thinks hers is a noble cause too. So do all her followers. What makes your opinion on this in particular correct?

Nothing, I make no claim to nobility, only plebness and fighting

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

We don't make laws enforce morals(or shouldn't) because that way lies authoritarianism and fascism and theocracy, and people abusing it so they can feel superior and put people down in order to feel more moral. I mean, you know, if we're going with slippery slope arguments. And possibly presumptions of evil. Not sure on that one. It's implied, certainly.

That's actually a relevant point but we've all since established Europe should not fear shariah and islamicization is a myth spread by Papal shills to warn of slippery slopageddon

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:17:23 pm

See, I know you have no trust in humanity, but nothing will function correctly if you assume people will always abuse it (which isn't false, it's just a matter of trying to reduce the abuse to a minimum while still allowing enough leeway for use in context and hoping people can get it right, usually by trying to improve the culture so that people are smarter and better in general). So we could have a consent based culture where you actually help the victims. That's a big part of it being actually consent based. And it wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better.

Create a system that will be abused

It will be abused

Respect the Robot

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 02:34:35 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 02:20:32 pm

You're assuming the behaviour is pleasurable in the first place. It isn't, for the majority of the population

Not for necrophiliacs, zoophiles and pedophiles.

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 02:20:32 pm

Heh. Are you aware of why the chances of the child being born are low? It's because in most of the cases, mutations are lethal in utero. Fun to use, when arguing with some pro-lifers.

Oh that's devilish ;D
Your pro-lifers I feel have done great damage to their own cause
They're basically shitposters irl

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

What makes you believe that enough people will participate in this behavior for such desensitization to become an issue on large scales?

Estimations for zoophiles in Germany ran at 17,000 (vets) -100,000 (zoophiles for enlightenment and tolerans).

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

Should BDSM be illegal too, lest people go too far and end up injured? I mean, hell, that's a thing where consent is a fucking huge issue, because of how easy it is to abuse someone during it.

We have laws regulating it to ensure it is safe and people don't get abused, most amusingly being that recent example where that dominatrix was fined because her dungeon didn't have good fire safety

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

You are making meaningless distinctions here. As you say below, if you aren't making the exact same argument? Then demonstrate it.

No you demonstrate it because you are comparing me to arguments I've never before seen in my life. If you are going to accuse me of being something then ffs demonstrate it, I can't defend myself from accusations floating in the air that have no parameters or likeness, this is why I don't do arguments on feels, I do arguments on what is. Have the cheek to call me sleazy when you're doing that? Nah get dunked

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

None of us are advocating for necrophilia. None of us are talking about pedophilia. You are the one who keeps bringing them up as if they're relevant in these discussions of other matters.

From my end you keep talking about homosexuality when we're talking about necrophilia, bestiality, pedophilia and incest in the topic where Swedes and Germans are battling to ban it or decriminalize it. Don't hijack my dialogue oppressive shitlord

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 12, 2016, 01:48:02 pm

That is the sleaziest thing I have ever seen you do, LW, and I am disappointed. What do you think this entire debate has been? "Demonstrate it". Seriously, man? Demonstrate the logical flaws, when we keep showing that it was used to argue against homosexuality, and if you think that homosexuality is alright, then there's obviously something wrong with the argument? Come on, LW. You're better than that.

Demonstrate it man, I have no idea what you're talking about, you keep bringing up homosexuality when it's obvious we're not talking about it and getting angry when I point this out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 12, 2016, 02:49:57 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 12, 2016, 02:20:32 pm

In particular, Sergarr's claim that people can be pressured into these is kinda funny - flip the perspective, and it would imply that homosexuality should be a non-issue, what with centuries of overwhelming pressure on the homosexuals to conform.

I've never said that social pressure was the only factor that determined your sexuality, so I've never implied that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2016, 06:40:34 pm

How do you EU guys feel about enabling Erdogan to become more dictatorial? http://www.politico.eu/article/refugee-eu-migration-deal-will-cement-erdogans-control/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 12, 2016, 07:09:31 pm

It's kind of ridiculous at this point. "Hey, we've got a migrant crisis. Let's do something to push it a few years back and make it worse in the long run!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 06:00:56 am

This is the polite EU thread not the Is [CONTROVERSIAL SEXUAL ACT] Morally Defensible Thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2016, 09:16:12 am

Yeah, enough of that already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 09:36:44 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2016, 06:40:34 pm

How do you EU guys feel about enabling Erdogan to become more dictatorial? http://www.politico.eu/article/refugee-eu-migration-deal-will-cement-erdogans-control/

It was inevitable
Also this is relevant

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2016, 04:33:46 pm

One of the things going around Londonistan cos of the Kurd march is that they said the only difference between Assad and Erdogan is that Assad doesn't bomb Kurds

R
  E
    G
      I
       M
         E
     
             C
               H
                 A
                   N
                     G
                       E

lol jk no one will regime change him and that would be a terrible idea anyways. Things would be different if the Turkish military still had its independent influence over Turkey but as it stands Erdogan is pretty integral to Turkish stability now, so there's not really much that can be done unless Erdogan causes more damage than his regime changing would entail. Pretty much all of Turkey from the political to social, economic to military has seen better days and Turkey herself could end up getting Balkand. I believe the French call this authority in "state of emergency", and power shall be devolved once the state of emergency is over, even if it never truly is. At the very least it is better than civil war

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 06:00:56 am

This is the polite EU thread not the Is [CONTROVERSIAL SEXUAL ACT] Morally Defensible Thread

That's one half of European politics these days m8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

Good thing this is the news thread not the political debates thread. Clearly we don't do political debates here because every single political debate thread on the EU has spiralled out of control and been nuked.

Anything that seems to be a political debate here is clearly just high-spirited argument and theoretical-devils-advocation.

In other news, Plane Pilots to lose patient-doctor confidentiality (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35797065)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 10:11:43 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

Good thing this is the news thread not the political debates thread. Clearly we don't do political debates here because every single political debate thread on the EU has spiralled out of control and been nuked.

Reporting news on haramsexual is good

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

Anything that seems to be a political debate here is clearly just high-spirited argument and theoretical-devils-advocation.

Or pure coincidence

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

In other news, Plane Pilots to lose patient-doctor confidentiality (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35797065)

Also the Eagles of Death Metal band dood who said the six security guards who did not show up to the Bataclan theatre on the night it got peaced has apologised to them, saying they probably had legit reasons to skip (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35797322)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 11:11:02 am

I'M ANGRY

ABOUT FISHING

EU LEAVE OUR FISH ALONE (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/10/leaked-european-commission-plan-would-open-gates-to-overfishing)

I'M (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/855932/given-choice-ballot-box-will-voting-leave-eu/)

ANGRY (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2016/03/14/2003641551)

ABOUT (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/09/from-bust-to-boom-is-iceland-a-brexiters-paradise/)

fishing

Quote

He said he suspected the council had adopted the strategy used by South Korea, which increased its fines on its fishermen in exchange for being dropped from the EU’s warning list.

“The government should be able to communicate with foreign institutions and fight for the interests of Taiwan’s fishing industry, instead of following the South Korean government,” Lei said. “Show some backbone, please.”

Further proof Taiwan number one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 13, 2016, 02:13:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 11:11:02 am

fishing

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://ci.memecdn.com/720/5300720.jpg)

This is PTW because this is apparently new OOCQ thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 13, 2016, 04:27:28 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

In other news, Plane Pilots to lose patient-doctor confidentiality (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35797065)

Because that is obviously the right thing to do rather than ensure that pilots do not have working conditions which is detrimental to their mental health and stability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 13, 2016, 04:35:35 pm

I'm all for improving the pilot's working conditions (everyone's working conditions, for that matter, particularily people in sensitive and stressful jobs. Goes without saying that I'm not exactly impartial in this regard). I also think that this alone doesn't suffice to prevent this kind of thing: people can break down for personal reasons as well.


I think that breaching patient-doctor confidentiality is not going to work, however. If anything, it will make people under dire straits try to hide it all the harder, and make it more likely that they remain undetected and untreated. To everyone's detriment.


I think that keeping two people in the cabin at all times is a sensible idea.

I think it would be sensible to make sure that employees that come forward with health problems of whatever type are not hung up to dry, and severy punish companies that actually do so. If the problem is transitory, they should be guaranteed a return to their usual job, and if the problem is permanent and disabling, they should be relocated and/or given a pension.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 04:42:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 13, 2016, 04:27:28 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2016, 10:03:56 am

In other news, Plane Pilots to lose patient-doctor confidentiality (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35797065)

Because that is obviously the right thing to do rather than ensure that pilots do not have working conditions which is detrimental to their mental health and stability.

Because creating working conditions that do not impact the continued mental health of pilots negatively does not stop the scenario where already mentally ill pilots / pilots who develop mental illnesses from home and public environments, trauma or disease are allowed to fly passenger jets

This deals with all

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 13, 2016, 05:07:10 pm

Or it makes pilots fear seeking psychological help because they could face repercussions at work, and now there are more pilots with issues going completely untreated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 05:20:47 pm

Yeah m8 in today's world of mass data collection they have nowhere to hide if they don't want help

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 13, 2016, 07:36:38 pm

So Germany had a fairly large political upset today, in the regional parliamentary elections of three Länder. I'll provide details tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 13, 2016, 09:06:44 pm

Spoiler: the Far Right is now the second largest party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 13, 2016, 09:14:34 pm

I find it more than slightly worrying that the far right is getting so popular everywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 13, 2016, 09:19:36 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 13, 2016, 09:06:44 pm

Spoiler: the Far Right is now the second largest party

In Sachsen-Anhalt. Big whoop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 13, 2016, 10:11:36 pm

Dont worry guys, I've got this. What we need is to infiltrate the party, maybe use some kind of likely figure to do so (an exsoldier of some sort maybe?), in order to keep a tab on them.  Its a solid plan, without any fissures!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 05:24:10 am

Quote from: penguinofhonor on March 13, 2016, 05:07:10 pm

Or it makes pilots fear seeking psychological help because they could face repercussions at work, and now there are more pilots with issues going completely untreated.

I know this is actually already happening in countries where there is extreme social stigma against mental illnesses. People are already choosing not to seek professional help because they would be out of a job immediately.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 05:20:47 pm

Yeah m8 in today's world of mass data collection they have nowhere to hide if they don't want help

That's got nothing to do with mass data collection but with how hard it is to hide where you are going every Thursday at 15:00.
Oh, wait, misread. The people who do mass data collection aren't psychologists and even if they were that's hardly enough for a real diagnosis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2016, 06:29:08 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 05:24:10 am

I know this is actually already happening in countries where there is extreme social stigma against mental illnesses. People are already choosing not to seek professional help because they would be out of a job immediately.

Unnamed countries
Unnamed stigmas
Unnamed illnesses
Unnamed jobs
Unnamed people
Source of knowledge anonymous

I agree with the principle but that's because I already agree, don't take it for granted that people do

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 05:24:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2016, 05:20:47 pm

Yeah m8 in today's world of mass data collection they have nowhere to hide if they don't want help

That's got nothing to do with mass data collection but with how hard it is to hide where you are going every Thursday at 15:00.
Oh, wait, misread. The people who do mass data collection aren't psychologists and even if they were that's hardly enough for a real diagnosis.

You're right, that's why you get psychiatrists on board, identify which of your pilots are high risk or even just have all of them undergo mandatory psychiatry examinations and if they don't want to disclose the results then relax patient confidentiality so a suicidal pilot doesn't walk on board after having been determined as extremely depressed by doctors and end up killing hundreds of people with him

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Quote

Source of knowledge anonymous

Exactly, for obvious reasons.
I don't know the exact country, but it's probably one of the Balkan route.
Concrete disease is depression, but I doubt the stigma is this differentiated – probably it's just about "mental illnesses".
Jobs are any. It's not only about the possibility of loosing their current job, it's also about not being able to ever find another.

Quote

I agree with the principle but that's because I already agree, don't take it for granted that people do

There's nothing I can do about that.

Quote

You're right, that's why you get psychiatrists on board, identify which of your pilots are high risk or even just have all of them undergo mandatory psychiatry examinations and if they don't want to disclose the results then relax patient confidentiality so a suicidal pilot doesn't walk on board after having been determined as extremely depressed by doctors and end up killing hundreds of people with him

Or proper safety measures are implemented so a single person cannot just decide to crash the plane.
Or even better: Replace human pilots. The digital ones are already better than the ones who don't plan to crash the plane.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2016, 07:25:31 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Exactly, for obvious reasons.
I don't know the exact country, but it's probably one of the Balkan route.

Your vague geography is painful to europol thread where we obsess with geography's finer details and do not place the Crimea in Pakistan, we leave that to the Yanks

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Concrete disease is depression, but I doubt the stigma is this differentiated – probably it's just about "mental illnesses".
Jobs are any. It's not only about the possibility of loosing their current job, it's also about not being able to ever find another.

Probably, possibility, speculation on a good track but without fact to sink teeth into

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Quote

I agree with the principle but that's because I already agree, don't take it for granted that people do

There's nothing I can do about that.

Except have an argument that doesn't hinge on the premise of everyone already agreeing with you and accepting your anonymous, vague, general claims as fact? It's not too hard to get demonstrable proof for most things in life these days

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Quote

You're right, that's why you get psychiatrists on board, identify which of your pilots are high risk or even just have all of them undergo mandatory psychiatry examinations and if they don't want to disclose the results then relax patient confidentiality so a suicidal pilot doesn't walk on board after having been determined as extremely depressed by doctors and end up killing hundreds of people with him

Or proper safety measures are implemented so a single person cannot just decide to crash the plane.

Beyond having two pilots in the cabin at all time (which they now do), you cannot make a cabin both pilot-proof and hijacker-proof. Also I don't understand this either-or mentality where you cannot do one smart thing in addition to another, you can only pick one for some reason. This is not smart, this is very stupid. Do all the smart things.

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 06:49:01 am

Or even better: Replace human pilots. The digital ones are already better than the ones who don't plan to crash the plane.

But not better than the pilots who don't intend on committing suicide via plane; if your worry is mentally ill pilots being discriminated against by employers making all pilots unemployed is an interesting response which I don't think would be all too good for their health. And as in most situations, the correct response would be why not have all the smart things. (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/autopilot-airplane-system-lands-planes-if-pilot-incapacitated/) Pilots and autopilot, not pilots or autopilot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 07:42:23 am

Quote

But not better than the pilots who don't intend on committing suicide via plane;

This is exactly what I was not saying. Automatic pilots are better than human ones, no matter whether they want to commit suicide or not. They are solely not used because most humans would be more afraid of flying with the (better) digital pilot than with a human one.

Quote

Except have an argument that doesn't hinge on the premise of everyone already agreeing with you and accepting your anonymous, vague, general claims as fact? It's not too hard to get demonstrable proof for most things in life these days

Well, then go out and get some. I'm too lazy. I'm perfectly fine with not convincing anybody who doesn't already believe this. I cited is as a reason for my assessment that you can see at the bottom of this post.

Quote

Beyond having two pilots in the cabin at all time (which they now do), you cannot make a cabin both pilot-proof and hijacker-proof. Also I don't understand this either-or mentality where you cannot do one smart thing in addition to another, you can only pick one for some reason. This is not smart, this is very stupid. Do all the smart things.

I'm not saying this is an either-or thing, I am saying that taking away patient confidentiality is a bad idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2016, 07:48:14 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 07:42:23 am

This is exactly what I was not saying. Automatic pilots are better than human ones, no matter whether they want to commit suicide or not. They are solely not used because most humans would be more afraid of flying with the (better) digital pilot than with a human one.
Well, then go out and get some. I'm too lazy. I'm perfectly fine with not convincing anybody who doesn't already believe this. I cited is as a reason for my assessment that you can see at the bottom of this post.

Assertion without any quantifiable evidence. This is the problem with lazy argumentation, who cares if no one is convinced, if you act as if everyone is no one is informed - even those convinced
Otherwise it's just an argument because for because

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 07:42:23 am

Quote

Beyond having two pilots in the cabin at all time (which they now do), you cannot make a cabin both pilot-proof and hijacker-proof. Also I don't understand this either-or mentality where you cannot do one smart thing in addition to another, you can only pick one for some reason. This is not smart, this is very stupid. Do all the smart things.

I'm not saying this is an either-or thing, I am saying that taking away patient confidentiality is a bad idea.

Yeah, but taking away some patient confidentiality for commercial pilots is a good idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 08:11:46 am

Quote

Otherwise it's just an argument because for because

Using physics jargon: It was a postulate used to argue for my point. You agree with the postulate. There has to be a disconnect between that postulate and my conclusion, why don't you focus on that?

Quote

Yeah, but taking away some patient confidentiality for commercial pilots is a good idea

1. It makes people less likely to go to the doctor and get their illnesses treated. That is a bad thing.
2. Forced evaluation by a psychologist is not nearly as effective as evaluation that is accepted by the diagnosed. Forcing people into therapy/diagnosis in exchange for a situation in which they are more likely to get it on their own volition is a bad thing.
3. Having more of these evaluations is a good thing, yes. You can also get these by requiring a psychological evaluation before hiring.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2016, 01:21:15 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 08:11:46 am

Using physics jargon: It was a postulate used to argue for my point. You agree with the postulate. There has to be a disconnect between that postulate and my conclusion, why don't you focus on that?

I'M ANGRY
ABOUT WORDS

U2LAZY4ME

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 08:11:46 am

1. It makes people less likely to go to the doctor and get their illnesses treated. That is a bad thing.

Assertion and generalization without evidence and does not address mandatory psychiatry sessions as in other professions

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 08:11:46 am

2. Forced evaluation by a psychologist is not nearly as effective as evaluation that is accepted by the diagnosed. Forcing people into therapy/diagnosis in exchange for a situation in which they are more likely to get it on their own volition is a bad thing.

No not psychologist, psychiatrist, and allowing suicidal people who are known to medical authorities to fly planes by disallowing doctors to warn them resulting in mass assisted suicide is a bad thing; paid sick leave and mandatory psychiatry evaluations would solve this pretty neatly

Quote from: Antsan on March 14, 2016, 08:11:46 am

3. Having more of these evaluations is a good thing, yes. You can also get these by requiring a psychological evaluation before hiring.

They already have mental and physical health evaluations in addition to intelligence evaluations before hiring, they also do self-policing in regards to their pilots suffering from trauma such as family deaths, divorces or alcoholism, ever since the 90s when they stamped out pilots drink-flying. This is not the first time as well mentally ill pilots have popped up, with pilots getting berserk after getting locked out of cockpits for example - this one was notable for the berserk pilot being the one locking everyone else out. This is pretty much the only loop left unclosed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 14, 2016, 06:09:55 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

Start war with Poland. Let them occupy East Germany. Job is done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 14, 2016, 06:13:22 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 14, 2016, 06:09:55 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

Start war with Poland. Let them occupy East Germany. Job is done.

I, for once, agree with you, though I wouldn't mind if Ukraine started a war with Poland and let us occupy western Ukraine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 14, 2016, 06:18:16 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

What would the point of that be? Though from what I hear around here, you guys would be cool with kicking Bavaria out.

Also, do you mean the menagerie of HRE states or east and west germany? ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 04:21:22 am

Turkey is about to start a full out war with the PKK. Europe can expect many Kurdish refugees.
Also, Erdogan has proposed to change the law, so that journalist can also be labelled as 'terrorists'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 05:50:26 am

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

No idea. I kind of don't want to be stuck with Sachsen&Co.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 04:21:22 am

Turkey is about to start a full out war with the PKK. Europe can expect many Kurdish refugees.
Also, Erdogan has proposed to change the law, so that journalist can also be labelled as 'terrorists'

As expected. I don't see how supporting Erdogan should lead to less refugees. Still it's made out to be without alternative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 15, 2016, 06:37:03 am

Quote from: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 05:50:26 am

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

No idea. I kind of don't want to be stuck with Sachsen&Co.

Neither do I - hence the question :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 06:55:03 am

Figured as much.

They want a wall against immigrants. Can't we just give them that? I hear walls work both ways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 15, 2016, 07:09:44 am

What's the point of it all when you're building a wall and in front of your eyes it disappears?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 15, 2016, 08:42:50 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 15, 2016, 07:09:44 am

What's the point of it all when you're building a wall and in front of your eyes it disappears?

Who knows, we're just here to arrange the blocks.

Quote from: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 05:50:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 04:21:22 am

Turkey is about to start a full out war with the PKK. Europe can expect many Kurdish refugees.
Also, Erdogan has proposed to change the law, so that journalist can also be labelled as 'terrorists'

As expected. I don't see how supporting Erdogan should lead to less refugees. Still it's made out to be without alternative.
[ / quote ]

Wasn't Turkey promised , but never given, a bunch of Euro monies to help keep things under control over there? If I am remembering right, it's not terribly surprising he's putting the screws to everything now, especially Europe. Sure he probably wanted to from the start, but having the chaos in Syria start leaking into his borders is as good a reason as any.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 09:25:37 am

I don't know whether he got the money or not and I don't even care, because he already did that stuff before the migrant crisis even started. But for some reason people here in Europe seem to think that ensuring he stays in power longer will mean less refugees. Which is idiotic. Erdogan is just one more tyrant, how should he lessen the crisis?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 15, 2016, 10:06:48 am

I have a friend at college here who is Turkish and was telling me what a fascist Erdogan was long before it became a big news topic. I see Erdogan as one of the most dangerous rising political figures of the region.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 10:09:59 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 04:21:22 am

Turkey is about to start a full out war with the PKK. Europe can expect many Kurdish refugees.
Also, Erdogan has proposed to change the law, so that journalist can also be labelled as 'terrorists'

Why haven't we kicked Turkey out of NATO for Erdogan being a dictator? :P

Quote from: Reelya on March 15, 2016, 10:06:48 am

(caught yo edit)Didn't Ergogan's government bomb Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq just now? Bombing those who are opposed to ISIS doesn't sound like what we should be doing right now.

They've been bombing the Kurds since the start of the whole thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 15, 2016, 10:11:56 am

*was edited because I noted you guys were already talking about that.

For Erdogan's journalism = terrorism thing, it seems to be worded in a way that it implies you can be labelled a terrorist for supporting the same cause as a terrorist, even if you don't actually support the tactics of terrorism or those actual groups. So, if you support a free Kurdistan, you're culpable for terrorist attacks by anyone who also supports a free Kurdistan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 15, 2016, 12:39:38 pm

And of course, this would also apply to anything said by Turkish citizens on the Internet, as it already does in relation to the perceived "insults" toward His Highness Sultan Erdogan. (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/02/turkey-has-opened-at-least-1845-cases-over-insults-to-erdogan/)

Erdogan is rapidly turning into Saddam 2.0. The only things missing here are trying to annex some neighbouring small country (which he already almost attempted, with Syria, but was forced to back off by Russia & NATO), and gassing the Kurds (which doesn't seem to be far out of question, considering the sheer scale of violence he has unleashed on them already).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 12:56:59 pm

Again, why haven't we kicked him out of NATO? I mean, there has to be some lines that NATO members can't cross if they want to remain in there. I'd imagine keeping a democracy and respecting human rights would be among them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 01:02:49 pm

Nah, then we'd have to kick the US out too. How's the closing down of Guantanomo bay coming along?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:06:01 pm

https://www.quora.com/What-countries-are-most-likely-to-be-kicked-out-of-NATO

"There is no formal process to expel a nation from NATO."

*facedesks*

I guess they couldn't imagine a reason why they might want to kick someone out of NATO at the time they wrote the rules. Or perhaps the major powers (which would be the UK and US at the time) didn't want to put anything in which would allow them to be kicked out by other members.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 01:02:49 pm

Nah, then we'd have to kick the US out too. How's the closing down of Guantanomo bay coming along?

Obama's trying... though not particularily hard and faces massive resistance from the republicans and even some democrats... and good point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 01:16:53 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 15, 2016, 09:25:37 am

I don't know whether he got the money or not and I don't even care, because he already did that stuff before the migrant crisis even started. But for some reason people here in Europe seem to think that ensuring he stays in power longer will mean less refugees. Which is idiotic. Erdogan is just one more tyrant, how should he lessen the crisis?

"People" who? Also quite obviously he's sheltering 3 million Syrians who aren't enriching Germany, regime changing him turns his country unsafe and moves the borders to Greece. The whole idea is once you reach Turkey you're supposed to stop but lol it doesn't matter either way, Merkel gives no fucks whatever happens whatever the weather

Quote from: Helgoland on March 14, 2016, 05:59:54 pm

Hey Ant, how many people in the East would be down with de-unifying Germany? The idea appears more and more appealing to me...

Aw yeah rebuild the walls

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2016, 04:21:22 am

Turkey is about to start a full out war with the PKK. Europe can expect many Kurdish refugees.
Also, Erdogan has proposed to change the law, so that journalist can also be labelled as 'terrorists'

Start?

It never stopped

Quote from: Kot on March 14, 2016, 06:13:22 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 14, 2016, 06:09:55 pm

Start war with Poland. Let them occupy East Germany. Job is done.

I, for once, agree with you, though I wouldn't mind if Ukraine started a war with Poland and let us occupy western Ukraine.

Poland calm the fuck down you can't take back all your clay yet

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 15, 2016, 01:20:48 pm

polan wil get bak cuckgermun adn ukreni klai

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 15, 2016, 01:23:37 pm

REMOVE PIEROGI

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 01:27:22 pm

There is no process for kicking dictators out of NATO, because NATO was about fighting commies, not defending democracy. Greece, Turkey, joined as military dictatorship.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:28:38 pm

I thought Poland already got back all of it's German occupied clay after WWII?

You Europeans need to get over those territorial disputes dating back upwards of a thousand years ago.

Of course, this is coming from an American and we've never lost territory over a war. edit: Well, I mean permanently lost.

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 01:27:22 pm

There is no process for kicking dictators out of NATO, because NATO was about fighting commies, not defending democracy. Greece, Turkey, joined as military dictatorship.

Oh, didn't know they joined as military dictatorships at the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 01:51:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:28:38 pm

I thought Poland already got back all of it's German occupied clay after WWII?
You Europeans need to get over those territorial disputes dating back up to a thousand years ago.
Of course, this is coming from an American and we've never lost territory over a war. edit: Well, I mean permanently lost.

Do you shill for free, Judas was paid (in hotpockets)! In seriousness though it does very much disgruntle me how enthusiastic certain Americans are to preach destruction of borders and sovereignty whilst they themselves are utterly without challenge on both fronts :P

Quote

The chairman of the Action Council Education, Hamburg University President Professor Dieter Lenzen sees because the level of education of many refugees to come considerable integration problems in Germany. The proportion of graduates about in Syria is within an age group with 15 percent, although approximately the same as in Germany with 19 percent, Lenzen said. "The problem is the 65 per cent of an age group that can operate only on reading comprehension level one by the PISA test." They were illiterate and basically could not read a bus schedule.

Lenzen drew attention also to a study by the National Economy Professor Ludger Woessmann. He also announced in May a report by the Special Council on "Integration through Education" in. The actual level of education who came to Germany refugees is still largely unknown. However, would result hints from various sources a fairly uniform picture, according to the post of the Head of the Centre for Economics of Education at the Munich Ifo Institute, Wößmann, for higher education and science policy journal "Academic".

Merkel's plan to convert them into good little progresiv: borken

Yo gonna culturally enriched son

Also why don't Germans let refugees vote in your elections yet? It's pretty racist m8 you need to be more civic nationalist, you can even balance out your german cons with shariah cons, it will be legit banter all day
I mean this is one way to crush intellectual elite, just fill your country with peeps who don't give a fuck about deconstructing why carbon nano-fibres oppress wolfkin and just want to work and get some

GOOD FUTURES AHEAD

Oh yeah and in Berlin a Turkish car driver exploded (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-car-bomb-kills-man-driving-through-german-capital-a6931871.html) previously investigated for dealing drugs, forgery and illegal gambling. Berlin police has said he probably wasn't a terrorist, and whilst in the current year they're less believable than Hitler's resurrected ghost, I think that bomb was for him and not bystanders - that last bit a matter of opinion. More likely than not it's just one of your returned fighters setting an example to the local drug dealers to pay up or explode. I still remember back when we were shitposting about this in old European thread and people were spouting guardian memes surrounding ISIS's infiltration of refugee routes, genuinely puzzled a to why they would want to :P
Is this related in any way to Jihadists? Fuck knows, but it's a good as excuse as any to look back into old claims and see how they hold up. There is a dark side to cultural enrichment sadly, but there's no stopping this wild ride

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 02:02:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 01:51:10 pm

Oh yeah and in Berlin a Turkish car driver exploded (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-car-bomb-kills-man-driving-through-german-capital-a6931871.html) previously investigated for dealing drugs, forgery and illegal gambling. Berlin police has said he probably wasn't a terrorist, and whilst in the current year they're less believable than Hitler's resurrected ghost, I think that bomb was for him and not bystanders - that last bit a matter of opinion. More likely than not it's just one of your returned fighters setting an example to the local drug dealers to pay up or explode. I still remember back when we were shitposting about this in old European thread and people were spouting guardian memes surrounding ISIS's infiltration of refugee routes, genuinely puzzled a to why they would want to :P
Is this related in any way to Jihadists? Fuck knows, but it's a good as excuse as any to look back into old claims and see how they hold up. There is a dark side to cultural enrichment sadly, but there's no stopping this wild ride

The article also says that they suspect a link to organized crime, which wouldn't surprise me since the description of what he was being investigated for sounds like Mob territory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 15, 2016, 02:09:17 pm

berlin created by sexy swankydank polabian serbs
it gon be werle nao

all hail north serbia
the polan protectorate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 02:15:46 pm

http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/8215406/zwei-drittel-sind--im-grunde-analphabeten-.html
Oh yeah, forgot this is the source for enrichment

Quote

He spent his first night with Lena in bed with his clothes on. "We woke up, and she wanted to kiss me, but I told her I can't,” he says. "In Iraq, we don't go out with women unless we are going to marry them.”
http://www.dw.com/en/finding-love-in-germany-a-road-to-integration-for-refugees/a-19113974

Absolutely moral cultural enrichment blanda up all in one

Cute story for all you topsweds <3

Also totally called it, man will always risk his life and will literally cross half the world in the pursuit of family

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 15, 2016, 03:02:46 pm

Spoiler: Poland Map, gray is the clay that is rightfully ours, white is the water that is rightfully ours, there is no Antarctica on this map but it's also ours (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/BlankMap-World-noborders.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 15, 2016, 03:17:56 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:28:38 pm

I thought Poland already got back all of it's German occupied clay after WWII?

Yeah, they did. They even got quite a lot of German-occupied German clay. In exchange the red fascists Soviet brothers of the Polish People just sort of swiped western Poland, effectively shoving the whole country a couple kilometers to the west gratefully accepted the gift of territory that gratefulness for their liberation compelled Poland to make.



We're pretty much over all that shit though. For example, why would Germany want back Königsberg these days? It's a Russian city now, there's no denying that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 03:34:39 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 15, 2016, 03:17:56 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:28:38 pm

I thought Poland already got back all of it's German occupied clay after WWII?

Yeah, they did. They even got quite a lot of German-occupied German clay. In exchange the red fascists Soviet brothers of the Polish People just sort of swiped western Poland, effectively shoving the whole country a couple kilometers to the west gratefully accepted the gift of territory that gratefulness for their liberation compelled Poland to make.
We're pretty much over all that shit though. For example, why would Germany want back Königsberg these days? It's a Russian city now, there's no denying that.

Why did Germany want Ukraine even though it was full of slavs or Turkey even though it was full of Turks? Simple, more clay, everyday

Spoiler: top kek (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/6tALWmy.png)

UR TERRITORIAL AMBITION PUTS US IN THIS POSITION MR AMBASSADOR PLS REVISE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 15, 2016, 04:13:18 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 15, 2016, 03:17:56 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2016, 01:28:38 pm

I thought Poland already got back all of it's German occupied clay after WWII?

Yeah, they did. They even got quite a lot of German-occupied German clay. In exchange the red fascists Soviet brothers of the Polish People just sort of swiped western Poland, effectively shoving the whole country a couple kilometers to the west gratefully accepted the gift of territory that gratefulness for their liberation compelled Poland to make.

"couple kilometers"
We lost like 50% of the territory (go choke on Atlantic Charter Allies), including Lwów and Wilno, one of the two most important cities in Polish culture and history... I mean, if this was a game those would be marked as Victory Points, that's how important they were, and the fact that we fought for them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_Eaglets) so damn hard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilna_offensive) before was real salt on the wounds. We have really bad time giving up clay, possibly because OUR ANCESTORS LOOK UPON US WITH SHAME. We could theoretically agree that we don't have shit on Vilnius or Lwiw anymore, sadly, but that won't stop us from secretly wanting to make a glorious comeback, become superpower, kick Russia's ass (we hate Russians more than Germans these days, funilly enough, even if so slightly) and go into space or something.

Arguably, we came out of the whole thing better off, since the "Recovered Territories" were way much more industrialized and stuff, but still... why not both?

Quote from: Helgoland on March 15, 2016, 03:17:56 pm

We're pretty much over all that shit though. For example, why would Germany want back Königsberg these days? It's a Russian city now, there's no denying that.

Well, the whole reasoning behind the postwar Poland were Polish borders from ~1000 AD, so yeah. (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Polska_960_-_992.svg) Also, I was actually pretty damn suprised how Russian the whole Królewiec/Königsberg is. I mean, we don't really think about it a lot (maybe except the whole Strait of Baltiysk bullshit), but when we do we don't think of it as... Russia, but then it turns out it's hardcore Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 04:36:13 pm

You should see China's clay magic, every day their history grows more claims to clay and water

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 04:44:21 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 15, 2016, 04:13:18 pm

"couple kilometers"
We lost like 50% of the territory (go choke on Atlantic Charter Allies), including Lwów and Wilno, one of the two most important cities in Polish culture and history... I mean, if this was a game those would be marked as Victory Points,

Don't be salty. After the war it's not like you had the population to fill those territories anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 04:53:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 04:44:21 pm

Don't be salty. After the war it's not like you had the population to fill those territories anyway.

Polish blitzkrieg of the loins would fix that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 15, 2016, 05:06:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 04:36:13 pm

You should see China's clay magic, every day their history grows more claims to clay and water

Nah, we do it too, Chinese just have balls to push those claims... or at least poke them.
I mean, aside the obvious 3/4 of Eastern Europe, we all know that Berlin was originally a Slavic city, which means that Poland totally has claims (and if we go back in time, there's also this Sarmatian stuff which means everything from Anatolia to Baltic is ours), not to mention that we went there in 1945, and speaking of that we also own Russia since we actually conquered it, Sweden and basically whole Scandinavia actually belongs to Poland, we should also have an colony or two in the Carribean or something, and let's not even get started on really bullshit stuff like getting revenge on Western Allies, owning USA due to the fact that we helped create it and so on.

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 04:44:21 pm

Don't be salty. After the war it's not like you had the population to fill those territories anyway.

Pre-war we didin't really either, it was all mostly empty forests and rural villages, but the cities (Lwów) were really a big thing. Also, Poland has been salty basically always, so it's not like we're going to stop soon. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 04:53:30 pm

Polish blitzkrieg of the loins would fix that

Blitzkrieg? I beg you, don't use that word in connection with sex or anything, German women are UGLY.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 15, 2016, 05:22:46 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2016, 04:53:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 04:44:21 pm

Don't be salty. After the war it's not like you had the population to fill those territories anyway.

Polish blitzkrieg of the loins would fix that

Hey, it worked for Paraguay... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War_casualties) (not that they got their clay back)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 15, 2016, 06:22:46 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2016, 04:44:21 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 15, 2016, 04:13:18 pm

"couple kilometers"
We lost like 50% of the territory (go choke on Atlantic Charter Allies), including Lwów and Wilno, one of the two most important cities in Polish culture and history... I mean, if this was a game those would be marked as Victory Points,

Don't be salty. After the war it's not like you had the population to fill those territories anyway.

Considering what happened in Western Poland (teal deer: a fuckload of people were relocated from the former-Po-lands in the East, including the very cities you mention as being un-populatable, to the newly acquired cities in the West, while the native German populations in those was kicked out to Germany), it's safe to say it wouldn't be a major concern if that didn't happen in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2016, 02:33:12 am

It was just a light-hearted joke about the fact that a fifth of the Polish population was killed one way or another during WWII.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 16, 2016, 07:26:13 am

dear god i almost got something here
almost
come on kot
show the filthy western dogs the true power of polan
polan best lan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 07:51:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 16, 2016, 02:33:12 am

It was just a light-hearted joke about the fact that a fifth of the Polish population was killed one way or another during WWII.

Yeah m8 that's like light-hearted holocaust jokes you're kinda missing the edge

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 16, 2016, 11:15:30 am

Let's light-heartedly joke about how Nietzsche was right, Übermensch is a thing and obviously Poles are them, so we are above and beyond regular morality and totally have a right to slaughter every other nation if we decide that is good.

Remember, "Germany is a great nation only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins." He said that. He actually did. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 11:19:05 am

Nietzsche's ideas weren't race-based, however. People ought to try not quoting the man out of context for once, neither to vilify him nor to use him as support for their own unrelated campaign

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 11:20:01 am

But Germany will always be Polish clay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 16, 2016, 11:28:50 am

I always understood is as if the Nietzsche admired the Polish noblemen and their "freedom" of thoughts and actions.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 11:20:01 am

But Germany will always be Polish clay

The whole universe is Polish clay. We shall help to uplift the lesser men and soon, the stars will be ours! We shall prove that Poland, in fact, can into space!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 16, 2016, 11:37:53 am

How long do you plan on going on like this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 16, 2016, 12:23:12 pm

Until a refugee-related news-story comes up, at which point we will all descend into polarised bickering once more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 16, 2016, 12:28:11 pm

poland best country

gib land europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2016, 12:32:37 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 16, 2016, 12:28:11 pm

poland best country

gib land europe

Poland should get Lithuanian clay already to reform Poland-Lithuania already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2016, 12:36:13 pm

I guess they do need to get some compensation for North Pole-land melting fast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 16, 2016, 12:50:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 11:19:05 am

Nietzsche's ideas weren't race-based, however. People ought to try not quoting the man out of context for once, neither to vilify him nor to use him as support for their own unrelated campaign

But... what about tradition?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 12:52:16 pm

Quote from: scrdest on March 16, 2016, 12:50:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 11:19:05 am

Nietzsche's ideas weren't race-based, however. People ought to try not quoting the man out of context for once, neither to vilify him nor to use him as support for their own unrelated campaign

But... what about tradition?

Tradition! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 01:23:15 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfaV-l9Dq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo


Footage of the poor sod's "confession":

Some jewels to look for

"I've been very impressed by the Korean Goverment's humanitarian treatment of severe criminals like myself and their very fair and square legal procedures"

"After I planned in detail to accomplish my plan... (...) I committed my crime of taking out the important political slogan from the staff only area of the ??? international hotel, aimed at harming the work ethic and the motivation of the Korean people"

"I never should have allowed myself to be lured by the US administration to commit a crime in this country"


Edit: moar:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er7uhMkQzro&ebc=ANyPxKoXdWB9BeBt0A5m-aRSsmaucGFRGaNnCAgCWODkRSLWid9tpRFSd4--sqRNSuEX-xy8hiSlmEt64Z-kVFXBUAFh5_Aqmw

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 01:56:28 pm

Quote from: Antsan on March 16, 2016, 11:37:53 am

How long do you plan on going on like this?

It never ends

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2016, 01:58:02 pm

I wonder if those confessions are made ridiculously over the top on purpose to signal that they're not serious about the charges and just want some concessions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2016, 03:20:46 pm

It's not fair. DPRK takes one man hostage, and gets a shitstorm, Turkey takes an entire European Union hostage, and gets 6 billion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 16, 2016, 03:21:54 pm

Why is news about an American in Korea in the EU thread?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2016, 03:23:39 pm

Probably someone who had two tabs open and pressed reply in the wrong one. It happens to the best (korean) of us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 16, 2016, 04:02:31 pm

**Warning! An angry rant about the USA is incoming! Prepare to laugh at the git raging in front of his computer!**

I am greatly amused. That fucking moron thought he could go on a trip to north korea and do shit? That's a totalitarian regime, brah. This ain't no 'Murrica where you do settlements for breaking the law. In North Korea, they are going to drag you through shit and this time I say that is indeed good.

As a result of this chucklefuck, the US will lose international prestige, as they either allow a country with a twentieth of the size, one tenth of the population and one hundredth of the wealth can humiliate them by forcing them to negotiate the release of the nobhead that tried to tear down propaganda, or they lose face by letting the idiot rot in a concentration camp for 15+ years. Either way the US can no longer pretend they can be world police -- if they cannot protect their own citizens they can clearly not defend their allies. Hopefully this a sign of the US losing it's grip over Asia and Europe, and that the world is again controlled by multiple great powers instead of two or one state and their spheres of influence.

I sincerely hope that the USA falls apart, as it is getting weaker by the minute, and it is showing. The American society has always been unconscious politicaly, and due to that the Americans were always easily fooled by rampant generalizations, lies about ideologies and nations, and moronic ideas that wouldn't go by in any other western country. There is a reason the resentment against the USA amongst Europeans is and was increasing since the fall of the Soviet Union - they were no longer needed and their broken policies harmed everybody, even themselves.

If not for the vast amount of resources, population and the isolation from the rest of the world, the USA would have not been a superpower at all, and remaining a regional power at best. The leadership in the United States has always been lackluster, among the political leaders, as well as military ones. The land doctrines used by the USA were almost always outdated before they were even implemented - that is why all direct engagements the USA had over the years abroad were either humiliating defeats or pyrrhic victories. During the Korean and Vietnam wars the US was humiliated by analphabetic rice farmers with rusted and outdated AKs. The US lost simply because the leaders of those tiny, poor agricultural states were vastly better at strategy. In vietnam, the commanders of the US army failed to realize what to do and due to that the whole war was a pathetic loss. Iraq? Identical!

The US was always a country with jingoist war policies. To claim that a nation built by war loves peace is not only a filthy lie, but a stupid one. If I were to make the choice between aligning with a side during a potential World War III, it would be the side that does care about the people that joined their cause, and the USA is most certainly not that.

There. My sad, angry rant is over. Have a good one, the world, United States, hell, even the Kims in North Korea.


Yours truly,
A complete fucking git, SaberToothTIger.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:18:46 pm

Pax Americana's been eroded for quite some time really, and was pretty much nail-in-coffin from the end of the Iraq war being financed through debt bubbles that led to 2008 and the USA sorta just sitting around doing nothing in the Crimea whilst blundering around the ME

They'll still be the foremost power of the world for quite some time (short of Yellowstone erupting or civil war there is very little that can ever be done to change this) but we multipolar world now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2016, 04:20:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:18:46 pm

Pax Americana's been eroded for quite some time really, and was pretty much nail-in-coffin from the end of the Iraq war being financed through debt bubbles that led to 2008 and the USA sorta just sitting around doing nothing in the Crimea whilst blundering around the ME

They'll still be the foremost power of the world for quite some time (short of Yellowstone erupting or civil war there is very little that can ever be done to change this) but we multipolar world now

But who are the other poles? Other than the Poles, of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 16, 2016, 04:27:20 pm

Quote from: Teneb on March 16, 2016, 04:20:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:18:46 pm

Pax Americana's been eroded for quite some time really, and was pretty much nail-in-coffin from the end of the Iraq war being financed through debt bubbles that led to 2008 and the USA sorta just sitting around doing nothing in the Crimea whilst blundering around the ME

They'll still be the foremost power of the world for quite some time (short of Yellowstone erupting or civil war there is very little that can ever be done to change this) but we multipolar world now

But who are the other poles? Other than the Poles, of course.

CURSES, FOILED AGAIN!

AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH THIS IF IT WEREN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING TRANSPARENT LETTERS!
I was about to answer 'why, me and Kot of the active posters in this thread'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:39:36 pm

Nobody expects the invisible Poles

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 16, 2016, 06:13:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:39:36 pm

Nobody expects the invisible Poles

Theres one fixing your boiler right now LW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 16, 2016, 06:25:32 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 16, 2016, 06:13:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:39:36 pm

Nobody expects the invisible Poles

Theres one fixing your boiler right now LW.

Like, Mythbusters 'fixing' his boiler?  Uh-oh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 06:27:06 pm

In other news the Balkanites have been pretty successful with their deportation and fences, even the Serbs are joining in now. One thing that interests me is that in the latest photos of sad children:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/0YxTaTH.jpg)

Many signs written in good English and good English handwriting have been appearing loads and loads and loads, messages not directed at Greeks, Germans or Arabic interpreters - but American photographers, and given out by unknown Western activists. Pure coincidence.
In welcoming refugees, Mrs Merkel encouraged a movement of people into Europe that her own country did not want, trying to solve the problem by increasing the rate of migration and pressuring other member states, who had no choice in the matter, into accept immigrants they also don’t want. Sabotaging their borders to ensure the integrity of the Schengen area has now led to that most amazing situation where any country that has wanted to remain independent of this displacement has had to act in opposition of Berlin and pushed them further to de facto independence, moreso than the Eurozone crisis and the 08 crash already had. When this all began I thought it wise to give the German politicians the benefit of the doubt and just chalk it up to them being inept and incompetent, but the more I looked into Merkel blocking the designation of the Balkans as safe or the push for resettling of African migrants before Merkel's official open door policy was brought upon Europe the more it became increasingly clear this was purposeful design whose purpose was ideological enrichment for the sake of enrichment, as they valued enrichment as an objective good to be sought, much as our left-wing ruling party and even our right-wing ruling party all determined that enrichment for enrichment's sake was necessary for its own sake.

Most prudent is there is rather nice illustration of this at work. Hundreds of migrants marched out of a Greek camp to cross to Macedonia, hoping to reach Sweden or Germany. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-march-idUSKCN0WG1J7) German activists were spotted helping them cross by photographers. (http://i.imgur.com/mkDzrtE.jpg) They even handed out maps and guides on how to reach Germany and how to bypass Macedonian border controls, by passing through a river. (https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/709657764721762304/photo/1) Their guide falsely claimed the river was dry, resulting in deaths by drowning. The Macedonian border control caught some of them, is searching for and deporting the rest. And again, unsurprising given this is not the first time in the last decade, whilst Merkel gives lip service to stopping migration and boosting deportation of convicted criminals she stops any attempt at stopping the migration. (http://www.thelocal.de/20160307/merkel-scuppers-eu-plan-to-close-balkan-route) Also a German minister is taking the fall for a lot of coincidences surrounding the guides, though I wouldn't stop searching for more links on the chain. (http://www.thelocal.de/20160315/german-politican-allegedly-smuggles-refugees-to-macedonia) Especially prudent in light of leftist agitators in Calais doing much the same.

Quote

commando Norbert Blüm' orchestrates this action and 'only by chance' is the actual Norbert Blüm at the place where it happens - weird right?

top kek
The Macedonians are fuming. (http://www.thelocal.de/20160311/you-completely-failed-on-refugees-germany-macedonia)

Quote

Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov on Friday angrily charged that his country had been forced to "pay for the mistakes" of the EU amid the record migrant influx.
"In the refugee crisis there is the humanitarian aspect and the security aspect," he told Bild newspaper. "In terms of humanity, Germany acted very well. But in terms of security, your country has completely failed."
He added that Chancellor Angela Merkel, with her liberal migrant policy, "has shown courage".
"But no one has the courage to say what still lies ahead. Between Sudan and Egypt alone, 20 million migrants are waiting to come to Europe. The refugee flow won't end, because everyone knows everything via Twitter and Facebook."
His country's border closure with EU member Greece has, along with similar moves by other Balkan states, effectively stopped the refugee influx to northern Europe but left tens of thousands stranded in Greece.
Ivanov accused the 28-member EU of failing to anticipate the massive influx via Turkey and then dithering in the face of the historic refugee wave.
"In the refugee crisis, we are now paying for the EU's mistakes, we have already spent 25 million euros ($28 million) of our taxpayers' money and had to declare a national crisis," he said.
"And what did we get from Europe in return? Nothing! Not a cent! Instead, we, as a non-EU country, are now forced to protect Europe from an EU country, namely Greece," which he charged had been simply waving through refugees arriving from Turkey.
He bitterly accused the bloc of foiling its membership hopes for the past 25 years and added that, in Europe's view, "we're nothing, not an EU country, not in the (visa-free) Schengen zone, not in NATO. No one wants us."
Story continues below…
Ivanov also charged that the EU had "completely lost sight" of security concerns as refugees arrive from war-torn Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries.
"If we had relied on Brussels rather than react ourselves, we would have been flooded with jihadists," he said.
Ivanov said his country had confiscated some 9,000 forged or stolen passports, but that EU countries including Germany had declined to share information on jihadist militants or biometric identification technology.

At this point where the amount of aid the UK has given has broken the billion mark, the European Union has sent €390 million. The largest economy in the world lacks heart or wisdom, or else uses its wisdom to pursue the fancies of a heart of iron. We've given more than Sweden, Germany, France and Belgium combined. We did not fuck up the Balkans, did not take over anyone's borders or take their sovereignty, we tried closing the smuggling rings whilst the EU did everything in its power to obstruct the European nations from defending their countries, even threatening them with sanctions. Yet it always goes down English signs written for American broadcasters, she who selfies with migrants gets progressive cred than he who helps those without electricity, and with progressive cred comes international financing - not for aid, but for open border activism. When all chekibreki is said and done there is no point in addressing external borders being compromised when the people who compromised everything internally remain in power, control the media and so can cover up enriching crime as usual and take all the depressing photos to stack search engine results with and label all opposition as violent extremism and violent extremism as isolated incidents to be forgotten, control academia and so can raise the next generation and dictate future political discourse and taboo. People have been greatly convinced by the failure of Brussels to protect the nations it made dependent, forcing them into independence. I always said you do not prove an Empire by destroying all internal dissidents, you prove it by proving it is worthy of being upheld. It has failed every trial.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2016, 09:40:57 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 11, 2016, 10:44:40 pm

There are issues with people pushing too far forward at a breakneck pace without having their roll slowed by conservative elements(which is the entire point of their existence, as far as I'm concerned; progressive elements push society forward, conservative ones keep them from tripping over themselves in their haste to improve. Idealists and pragmatists, basically, is what I want.), but the appropriate reaction is not to decide that the whole thing might as well be destroyed. You're starting to sound almost more reactionary than conservative or moderate, with the 'tear it down and start anew' stuff.

Well the whole issue here is that the progressives degenerate, not progress, the conservatives sellout, not conserve, and the reactionaries are only reacting and will clearly always be fighting only after they've long since already lost. No reaction is appropriate, as reaction is pushing back instead of pulling in a new direction, something actually required. Hence why the reset by cultural enrichment needs to happen as smoothly and quickly as possible, to pull Europe in a new direction.

I recall this tidbit just earlier and I'm definitely sticking by it, as it does seem to be the only way to finally stop northern Europeans from dragging everyone down with them. Even earlier I said the balkan fences would work, but they would be insufficient, they would need border patrol to be reinforced. They did reinforce it. Even that is insufficient, for as long as progressive statesmen, media group executives and multinational globalists can continue throwing toleran money and information at the weakest link in the European Union's armour. That's the thing about countries, or weird bastard federal-state-corporate-fiefdoms, they can survive war, economic collapse, natural catastrophe and population collapse, replacement or colonization, but they can't survive infighting and they certainly can't survive so many people who are ideologically predisposed to self-destruction of nation states they do not at all identify with.
I fully believe that excepting the nations that fully reject the big three deconstructionist and marxist movements the West has spawned (and truly, congratulations to those that did), the only way forward is massive cultural enrichment, stopping now would only mean not enough in the current year will have learned anything and we would merely be setting ourselves up for an even larger mass migration event of tens of millions or hundreds of millions a year, which is beyond the point of survival, or simply build a society that is not even worth surviving. A few more million now and for the next five years, the dissolution of the European Union or just most of Turkey moving to Stockholm and Berlin, any one of the three should be sufficient as long as the border situation outside of southern and central Europe is stabilized until the future current year of 2036, as after 20 years everyone should've gotten a native wife or brought their family over by then. And seeing as how Merkel still has her hold on the helm and is keeping on course all stellar, it will be ugly, but it should go over after a while and will help the newSwed learn. There is the question of what new direction they'll pull as they'll need to get over their ethnic differences and language barriers, which might take more than 20 years and might nonetheless result in them adopting marxist narratives as their descendants run amok through Central Europe everytime someone dies in Judea or Aleppo, so we might just end up back at square one for Germany and Sweden + enrichment but at the very least everyone else will be on their guard and have no success to cause complacency.

Eh fuck it, no matter what as long as I outlive Merkel and can keep making dank memes I'll consider it a victory

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 16, 2016, 06:13:32 pm

Theres one fixing your boiler right now LW.

I only have British identifying Vietnamese or Afro-Caribbeans fix my boilers, not a lot of Poles in my area (who fix boilers)
Also Poles have been here long enough that they see boiler work as beneath them and want immigrants to take their jobs for them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 06:28:02 pm

Quote from: Teneb on March 16, 2016, 04:20:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 04:18:46 pm

Pax Americana's been eroded for quite some time really, and was pretty much nail-in-coffin from the end of the Iraq war being financed through debt bubbles that led to 2008 and the USA sorta just sitting around doing nothing in the Crimea whilst blundering around the ME

They'll still be the foremost power of the world for quite some time (short of Yellowstone erupting or civil war there is very little that can ever be done to change this) but we multipolar world now

But who are the other poles? Other than the Poles, of course.

The north pole and the south pole, obviously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 06:45:27 pm

Syed Kamall has come out in favour of the UK, Cameron is in full damage control mode and the Brussel sprouts are already trying to force his resignation. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syed-kamall-mep-leave-eu-david-cameron-renegotiation-a6925241.html)

LET'S GET FUCKING CRISPY AND ENRICH THESE STICKLEBRIX

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 16, 2016, 06:55:14 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 06:28:02 pm

The north pole and the south pole, obviously.

Not sure where scrdest lives but I can be the south-western Pole, which proably makes me not a Pole in eyes of many other Poles. Damn Poles, they ruined Poland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 16, 2016, 07:08:54 pm

Southwestern poles are a minor faction. Most important poles are north pole, south pole, polecat, and aspoles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 07:11:10 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 06:51:33 pm

Jesus, it gets funnier and funnier. And more promising, too. I'm actually starting to hope.
Though if it's a No, I imagine the 2011 riots are going to look like a Saturday night in Cardiff compared to the what we'll see after the referendum.

Never place your faith in man, only Robot :D
But yeah, we might actually have won over enough MPs and shekel wizards to balance out international shekelists and Euroshills, we've definitely already gone past the part where we have a fighting chance. Have we crossed the crucial psychological point of fear? Who knows, that is the final hurdle. WE NEED ONLY FEAR FEAR ITSELF

Also stunning projections form Washington of what a post-EU Europe will look like (http://i.imgur.com/HEpM7V4r.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 16, 2016, 07:20:59 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 07:11:10 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 06:51:33 pm

Jesus, it gets funnier and funnier. And more promising, too. I'm actually starting to hope.
Though if it's a No, I imagine the 2011 riots are going to look like a Saturday night in Cardiff compared to the what we'll see after the referendum.

Never place your faith in man, only ME, GRIMLOCK :D

Fixed that for you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2016, 07:25:35 pm

Poland rules the universe cause all planets have poles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 16, 2016, 07:31:24 pm

Twopoles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole). Poles are literally everywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 07:37:11 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 16, 2016, 07:31:24 pm

Twopoles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole). Poles are literally everywhere.

Less Pole is more Pole, we must Monopole (https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/technology-monopole-magnets/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on March 16, 2016, 08:15:30 pm

Too much polemics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 16, 2016, 08:26:17 pm

And not enough poleitical.

/badpolishjoke.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 09:36:24 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 07:47:51 pm

God I loved SMAC.

We're about due for a remake with all the faction leaders replaced with contemporary political figures, and all the technologies replaced with DANK MEMES.

EuroSpace Union - Commissioner Merkel Lel

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• -1 Penalty to efficiency due to horrid Commission-style bureaucracy
• 100% Bonus to planetary election votes through gerrymagic and convoluted governance
• Attempts to unite and dominate all factions through the interplanetary council
• Bonus to talents due to attraction by intellectual intelligentsia.
• +2 to max total population per base (refugee housing provides more opportunity to expand the dronebase)
• No particular strengths or weaknesses, once its bureaucracy weakness is overcome by a switch to democracy social engineering essentially becomes as strong or weak as its leadership.
• Erratic
• Agenda: Democracy (Gotta free your shit)
• Aversion: Police State (Stasi background does not count)

Sputnik Federation - Comrade Vladimir Vladivimorich Vladin the Implyer

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +2 To morale of Russian speaking self defence forces (adventuring soldiers must checki and brecki at the same time)
• +1 Bonus to police (space slav society retains strong internal security to ward off SPACE WESTERN PROVOCATEURS)
• -1 Penalty to industry (space slav society retains dominance by suspicious oligarchs and spymasters)
• Will take advantage of any faction's weakness but avoid the strong until an opportunity to strike arises, will seek total conquest of Planet if the opportunity arises but will not actively go out of its way to do so.
• Erratic
• Agenda: Power (to make mother Sputnik number 1 again)
• Aversion: Wealth (to avoid fate of decadent West)

Sweden's Stepdaughters - Captain Sweden Ja

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +1 Bonus to Planet due to environmental safeguards to ensure Alpha Centauri will not share Earth's fate
• +2 to Efficiency due to Ikea assembly and efficient authoritarian collectivism
• -1 to Morale as toleran Swedes carry Earthian privilege for colonizing Planet
• -1 Penalty to police as continual peace has meant police no longer understand how to deal with drone riots
• +1 secret nutrient bonus to harvesting fungus squares because DUDE WEED LMAO
• Can use mind worms as a unit upgraded with the police ability (to symbolize the long march through academia)
• Pacifist
• Agenda: Green economics (Never again!)
• Aversion: Free market (Capitalist oppression)
• Wages secret war on the world with mind worms

University of Super Tokyo - Senpai Shinzo Abarov

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +2 bonus to brilliant research, incomprehensibly successful science and mecha construction
• -2 to probe security with sneaky balaclava hackers and Chinese probes infiltrating the datalinks
• Starts off with one bonus tech to symbolize secret Nippon rearmament adhering with intergalactic law
• One extra drone for every four citizens (must invent the Virtual World project to create 2d waifus for everyone stop the NEET uprising from paralyzing Super Tokyo)
• All bases start with network nodes for free as neets build rigs in exchange for hotpockets and noodles
• Usually isolationist, will occasionally attack those withholding technology or attempt to build an Empire. Wins the game by transcending reality and making anime real
• Erratic
• Agenda: Knowledge (for Shinji will get in the robot)
• Aversion: Fundamentalist (for I have tipped the fedora)

The Lord's Eagles - Sister Donna Trump

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +2 Bonus to support as highly patriotic followers do their duty and help veterans make Planet great again
• +1 Bonus to probe as the Sister's agents conduct covert takeovers of enemy bases with small loans of a hundred energy credits and extract valuable information through negotiation
• -1 Penalty to planet as global warming is gay
• -2 to Research as intellectual elite become asylum seekers in safer pastures
• Attacking units gain +25% bonus to assault as Eagle troops have high energy
• Has interests, not allies, and will continually strive to extract the best deal by force until Planet is great again
• Aggressive
• Agenda: Fundamentalist (defend the faith from godless space commies)
• Aversion: Knowledge (nerds read books, and nerds are losers)

The People's House - Chairman Xi-Jin Ping

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +1 bonus to growth for abandonment of one child policy
• +1 bonus to industry for flooding the Planetary economy with glorious amounts of surplus plasma steel, make the House strong with historical claims of old House extending to all of Planet
• -2 to economy due to frequent crashes of the space Shanghai stockmarket
• All bases come with free perimeter defences due to prefabricated plasma steel houses surviving hits in one piece
• Immune to inefficiency due to diligent childhoods producing good bureaucrats and inefficient bureaucrats being sent to the holiday van
• Aggressive
• Will flood the world with cheap goods, operatives and soldiers until the People's House has its historical claim to the entire Planet and Ocean recognized by conquest
• Agenda: Police State (you can vote for anyone on the list of people we approve)
• Aversion: Democracy (are you having a giggle, the needs of the few will not outweigh the many)

Londonistan Finance - Bogolord Boris Johnson

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• +1 bonus to economy due to mysterious shekel magic of Londonistan conjuring energy creds out of thin air (and services)
• -1 to support due to expensive welfare probably being used by all these space immigrants
• Begins with 100 extra credits due to Shariah energy banking not approving of usury
• Bonus to commerce due to usurious shekel sorcery continuing anyways
• Needs hab complexes to exceed population size 4 due to housing crisis
• Will attempt to corner the planetary market with an insane solarshekel hurricane of wealth
• Pacifist
• Agenda: Free Market (for opening trade partners' markets to massive dolla dolla everyone holla)
• Aversion: Planned economics (communists are harder to profit from as they're dirt poor and have little to trade)

They would make a good base mod before jumping to the expansion pack with Italy, France, Israel, Turkey, Syria, space ISIS, space Al Qaeda e.t.c.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 16, 2016, 09:47:02 pm

Space Bernie Sanders?

I mean you did Space Trump...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 10:06:05 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on March 16, 2016, 09:47:02 pm

Space Bernie Sanders?
I mean you did Space Trump...

Should Murrica get two characters? Sanders would probably also have to nudge in on territory already taken by the Chairman or Commissioner and isn't as distinctive as any of the other real life caricatures (the only one who is not a caricature is Xi Jinping, who is very reserved, carefully manages his public image and tends to shy from any spotlight he hasn't cast - which is perfect, as his AC counterpart Sheng-ji Yang is a soft spoken, totalitarian philosopher King, using a light touch and an iron fist to rule. Xi Jinping has the light touch, (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/president-xi-jinping-chinese-website-letter-calling-for-resignation-a6934296.html) but has the iron fist to ensure he does not garner the same critics Erdogan does. Also deadly typos lol (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-35800437)

Whereas Trump fits the Believer niche near perfectly (also being the only faction that can run democracy and still keep expanding like a woman on a mission), requiring aggressive use of all 4Xs to negotiate trade deals with Londonistan and Super Tokyo! Also Miriam and Donald both have orange hair and Scots blood, so it's almost absolutely mandatory

Maybe Trudeau but there's also already a DUDE WEED LMAO character. Maybe he can be the Planet Cult for twice the DUDE WEED LMAO than Captain Sweden Ja, that doesn't sound that bad actually

It'd be near-mandatory to fuse Italy with Australia as well as I just can't envisage there not being an Australian-Italian pirate sea faction sailing around telling everyone to join them on bunga bunga adventure or telling enemies to fuck off because they're full

*EDIT
And to differentiate Al Qaeda with ISIS a bit more, fuse Al Qaeda with Ayyyyyliens to make Ayyyyy Qaeda Lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2016, 10:59:19 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 10:08:15 pm

I love it. Although, you missed out extra drones for Merkel (due to population dissatisfaction at being unlawfully enriched at the space swimming pools), and the empire of Glorious Nippon would obviously have penalties to growth, as they'd be too busy dating their waifus to actually breed.

Oh that's not a bad idea, make them play like a hybrid of the Cybernetic and University faction of ubertech research but low growth and high drones to represent the difficulty in getting Neets to work and multiply. Also lol I always found it funny that the Cybernetic faction had a penalty to growth as they found the rituals of organic reproduction "clumsy"
Also enriching rec commons is represented by unlikely riots, whilst intellectual intellegentsia help keep things covered unless they get outnumbered by drones

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 10:08:15 pm

Count V. Putin and China would probably be all about the nerve stapling, too - the Ruskies would get bonuses to its efficiency, China would have a better job of keeping the atrocities quiet due to the Great Datalinkwall.

As far as I can tell the Sputniks can't be given improvements on nerve stapling efficiency, and I don't see this being something they'd do much anyways as they're running on the theme of Soviet space-slav scifi a la Civ: Beyond Earth + Putin military muscle flexing Russia so they need smart slavs to make science for better weaponry and orbital spaceflight (well, they can't lead but they can certainly keep par, especially if they allow their economy to suffer in favour of research), the bonus to police represents their internal security apparatus well enough so they can avoid drone riots without rec commons for quite a while as long as they have a good enough army. Maybe also have it so that the People's House autobuilds Punishment Spheres and Genejack factories when they discover them, this would severely increase their productive capabilities whilst devastatingly halving their research, essentially meaning they'd have to win by flooding the world with troops that would get increasingly outdated without probe teams or negotiators re-appropriating foreign technology. Which seems appropriate all things considered

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 10:08:15 pm

EDIT: I just love it so much. Do I have your permission to write an erotic crossover between it and Murder on the Orient Express and sell it for millions (to the Harry Potter audience, naturally)?
The only thing is, I might have to replace dear old Bogo with the Gold(man)-plated robot Mechillary, to add some real pathos to the scene where she seduces Sister Donna Trump into going along with her plan of brainwashing all the other faction leaders into simultaneously stabbing Captain Sanders while he's busy measuring the ship to make sure no one has a bigger cabin than anyone else.

Absolutely haram

But don't forget to include Sonic the Hedgehog in it for maximum appeal and cancer

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2016, 10:08:15 pm

And Sanders could be the Captain (well, maybe not) who died/was killed before Planetfall. After seeing his stage get bumrushed by BLM, he seems kinda vulnerable to that kind of thing.

I think 2008 Obama would make a better Captain, seeing as the Captain was given command on the premise that no one truly expected the mission to succeed and he only got the job because he managed to inspire hope in the people of Earth that they weren't going to go extinct, that the project was worth doing because it could succeed.
And he held it together remarkably long until nimble navigators, cosmic forces beyond his control, conspirators and powerful leaders began pulling everything apart metaphorically (and in the case of kinetic and gravitational forces, literally). And with his one job being to ensure the colony pods managed to detach after they malfunctioned, he manages to manually detach them and leave himself stranded - to go down with the ship. Could he have ever been strong enough to keep such powerful leaders under control? Who knows, but all of them touch down on Planet because of him - and so they should say the words.
"Thanks Captain Obama."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 03:14:06 am

Turkey arrests three academics on 'terrorist propaganda' charges. "More than 2,000 academics signed a petition in January criticizing military action in the southeast, including round-the-clock curfews aimed at rooting out PKK militants who have barricaded themselves in residential areas in southeastern cities." "The petition outraged President Tayyip Erdogan, who said the academics would pay a price for their "treachery"." (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-academics-arrests-idUSKCN0WH2UG)

Saddam Erdogan seems to be doing rather well. Extorting money from EU, while curbstomping all dissent at home with brutal fist (including extreme mass murdering of Kurds), while being a "strategic ally" of USA, just like original Saddam was? He's doing very good for himself. For now.

Hopefully that will change in the future, because this is getting ridiculous.

P.S. From the same article:

Quote

Erdogan said on Monday the definition of a terrorist needed to be broadened to include supporters, listing lawmakers, academics, journalists or civil society leaders as examples.

Erdogan has previously accused the HDP of being an extension of the PKK, calling for legal action against lawmakers.

I don't even know what to add here...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 18, 2016, 05:41:41 am

I think it's time for those people to culturally enrich Europe while getting the hell out of the New Ottoman Sultanate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 10:27:41 am

European Union leaders approved a controversial deal with Turkey on Friday intended to halt illegal migration flows to Europe in return for financial and political rewards for Ankara. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-turkey-davutoglu-idUSKCN0WK0QQ)

Quote

"After a morning of talks with Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, European Council President Donald Tusk recommended that the 28 EU member states approve the text without changes and they rapidly agreed at a summit lunch in Brussels."

"Under the pact, Ankara would take back all illegal migrants who cross to Greece, including Syrians, in return for the EU taking in thousands of Syrian refugees directly from Turkey and rewarding it with more money, early visa-free travel and progress in its EU membership negotiations. "

"The EU also agreed to accelerate disbursement of 3 billion euros already pledged in support for refugees in Turkey and to provide a further 3 billion by 2018 once Ankara came up with a list of projects that qualified for EU assistance.

While the talks were in progress, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan accused the EU of hypocrisy over migrants, human rights and terrorism after supporters of the separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) set up protest tents near the summit venue.

Erdogan said Europe was "dancing in a minefield" by directly or indirectly supporting terrorist groups."

When Gaddafi said that Europe will beg for mercy on the hands of refugees if he was to be deposed, everyone laughed. But now, they're desperately trying to appease the Sultan (who clearly understand the situation and is abusing it to insult Europe and demand as much stuff as he wants), in a way that doesn't actually resolve the problem at all, but will only legalize it (the exchange rate is "one illegal migrant" for "one legal migrant", lel)

Great job, Merkel. Great fucking job. It's hard to believe that such concentration of pure failure can exist in a single person that's supposed to rule over a non-"banana republic" state. Fucking up economical recovery of the biggest and most developed economical block on the planet (lel austerity), fucking up on the refugee issue, fucking up nuclear energy (only to replace it with coal, which actually releases 20 times more radioactive materials than nuclear energy does LEL), and fucking up German's army to the extent of it using fucking brooms instead of actual weapons... have I missed anything?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 18, 2016, 10:34:52 am

Not bad price for cultural enrichment. Europe needs more culture to get civilized. I bet, Bismark would be proud of Merkel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2016, 10:39:54 am

Sounds like a great deal.
All hail Aisha Merkeglu and Donald Türk

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 11:26:23 am

There is actually at least one other hilarious thing from the article I haven't noticed on the first reading. Namely, the fact that EU has engaged in some bureaucratic bullshit in order to push the deal through:

Quote

CYPRUS ROADBLOCK SIDESTEPPED

Turkey's four-decade-old dispute with Cyprus had been a key stumbling block. Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades insisted there could be no opening of new "chapters" in Turkey's EU talks until Ankara allows Cypriot traffic to its sea and airports - a result of a refusal to recognize the Cypriot state.

But the issue was sidestepped because EU leaders agreed to open a negotiating chapter that was not one of the five blocked by Nicosia. An EU official said they would open chapter 33 on budget policy and accelerate preparations for negotiations in other areas.

EU seems to be quite proficient at fucking over its constituent members on technicalities in the name of "the greater good".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2016, 11:56:52 am

The Belgian tv (VTM) reports that Saleh Abdesalem, the Paris attacker that has been a fugitive ever since the Paris attacks, has been shot by the Belgian police, and placed into custody, after another police raid in Molenbeek. He is being treated in a hospital now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2016, 11:59:30 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 11:26:23 am

EU seems to be quite proficient at fucking over its constituent members on technicalities in the name of "the greater good".

All according to plan

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

    17 September: ESI policy proposal: Why people don’t need to drown in the Aegean

    4 October: ESI policy proposal: The Merkel Plan – A proposal for the Syrian refugee crisis

    5 October 2015“As soon as mid-September, ESI had already proposed a solution to the refugee crisis, which in large part has now been adopted by the European Commission. At the core of ESI’s proposal is the idea that the German government should take the lead and commit to resettling 500,000 Syrian refugees directly from Turkey to Germany … In return, Ankara should immediately readmit all migrants reaching Greece via the Aegean or the Turkish-Greek land border in Thracia. Substantial elements of this idea apparently are part of a plan that the EU Commission says it has negotiated with Turkey, but there is no official confirmation from Ankara about the existence of such an agreement. Before Turkish President Recap Tayyip Erdogan arrived in Brussels this Monday, ESI continued to advocate for a “package deal”: readmission of a number of refugees to be determined in return for the immediate application of the readmission agreement between the EU and Turkey.”

    7 October: Angela Merkel on German TV (Anne Will) where she explains her plan:“We must better protect our external borders, but this is only possible if we reach agreements with our neighbours, for example with Turkey, on how to better share the task of dealing with the refugees. And this will mean more money for Turkey, which has many expenses because of the refugees. This will mean that we will accept a set number of refugees, in a way so that the human traffickers and smugglers in the Aegean will not earn money, but in an orderly way … “

    15 October interview in Die Zeit with Gerald Knaus: ZEIT: The plan that Angela Merkel will bring to Ankara comes close to a proposal you made already weeks ago – and now it became EU foreign policy. What exactly did you propose?”

    16 October: ESI presents plan in Berlin

    17 October: ESI background document: Turkey as a “Safe Third Country for Greece

    2 November: ESI presents plan in Ankara and Istanbul

    17 November: ESI presents plan in Brussels

    20 November: ESI presents plan in Stockholm

    20 November: Articel in Der Spiegel by German Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel and Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier:

        “If Turkey is ready to make a big contribution to securing the common border with the EU and, at the same time, will readmit refugees who try crossing that border, then the European Union has to actively support Turkey in return … then Germany should – in return – resettle contingents of Syrian refugees within the framework of a European effort as it already did in the case of other civil wars. The people on these contingents shall be safely brought to Europe and Germany. Instead of chaotic and uncontrolled immigration on dangerous routes as it is now, orderly and safe resettlement of civil war refugees.”

    24 November: Financieele Dagblad: Nu de EU faalt moet Duitsland apart met Turkije onderhandelen over vluchtelingen (“Now that the EU fails, Germany must negotiate separately with Turkey on refugees”)

    25 November: ESI presents plan in The Hague.

    29 November: ESI paper: The devil in the detail

    1 December: ESI presents plan in Berlin

    5 December Diederich Samsom travels to Turkey

    11 December: ESI presents plan in Paris

http://www.esiweb.org/rumeliobserver/2016/01/29/the-merkel-samsom-plan-a-short-history/
The list goes on, full list linked.

Found one more link in the European Enrichment bloc. We know which politicians have been publicly doing what and we have a good grasp of what which statesmen and women have been actually doing behind the scenes versus what they say publicly, but it never struck me to look into who advises them as I never thought any one adviser group had dominance over so many ears. Colour me surprised, the Turkey plan was their proposal and they just borrowed Merkel's name for it. That is true power, no constitutional limits, no campaigning, votes or oversight, and your ideas are made law upon whole continents to fulfill your life's visions. We live like Kings, but few live as Princes.

Quote

15 October interview in Die Zeit with Gerald Knaus: ZEIT: The plan that Angela Merkel will bring to Ankara comes close to a proposal you made already weeks ago – and now it became EU foreign policy. What exactly did you propose?"

Hmph. Going against the combined political might of Brussels, Stockholm, Berlin, the Hague and a couple multinational "philanthropists." It will be a tough future, one I think will take generations to attain victory.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Gerald Knaus know how the future of Europe might look. He advises politicians in Brussels and Washington. Only Vienna ignores him.

Who wants to stay on the heels of Gerald Knaus, can not be lazy. Just before now the young cosmopolitan in a dapper suit would have been found found at a briefing in Washington, but a little later he sits again, clearly casual dressed, in a tea house in Central Anatolia. In between, a lecture on the issues of the future of a multi-ethnic state in the Balkans was still something in Brussels, Berlin or Skopje, likely. And then Papa Knaus has also still promised his children to swim with them.

When something bad intention he might the model for the cartoon of scattered scientist proposed: As he as just balanced with crumpled jacket and loosely bound laces a few kilos of paper out of the trunk of the taxi, in one hand, the chocolate box for the neighbor, in the other hand, the permanent squeaky mobile phone. But Gerald Knaus is neither scattered nor a classic scientists - yet it gives reason to want to be malicious.

"I'm talking too much," he admits. He actually does. But just as quickly as he escaped the admission, he has mentally nimble already facing the next topic. With his expertise he sweeps across a boundless Europe - a continent he wants to open up a "think tank New Style". For this purpose he has in one place, which is an outpost today, set up his headquarters: in Turkey.

Rumelihisarc where the 36-year-old lives with his wife and three young daughters, was a few years ago a village. Today it is a suburb of Istanbul, picturesquely situated on the Bosporus. The path leads over steep steps up the hill, which does not make the family shopping. As a consolation, it offers a panoramic view over the strait, from the up sluggish toot the sirens. And the baker with sesame bagels goes, like a hundred years ago, with his goods from door to door.

Up here, on the very edge of the European continental mass, Gerald Knaus sits whenever he is not indispensable elsewhere, and then he werkt to Europe. He is co-founder of the small but internationally renowned think tank European Stability Initiative (ESI). The mission of the think tanks could shorten inadmissible be paraphrased like this: Search the ever-enlarging Europe, explore, and help politicians in finding their way in it.

Knaus itself takes shortened inadmissible, probably best described as a role model for all those who are described that are not afraid of this new and unknown Europe. Gerald Knaus wants to stay on the heels, can not be lazy. Just now the young cosmopolitan in dapper suit found at a briefing in Washington would have been, but a little later he sits again, clearly casual dressed, in a tea house in Central Anatolia. In between, a lecture on the issues of the future of a multi-ethnic state in the Balkans was still something in Brussels, Berlin or Skopje, likely. And then Papa Knaus has also still promised his children to swim with them.

When something bad intention he might the model for the cartoon of scattered scientist proposed: As he as just balanced with crumpled jacket and loosely bound laces a few kilos of paper out of the trunk of the taxi, in one hand, the chocolate box for the neighbor, in the other hand, the permanent squeaky mobile phone. But Gerald Knaus is neither scattered nor a classic scientists - yet it gives reason to want to be malicious.

"I'm talking too much," he admits. He actually does. But just as quickly as he escaped the admission, he has mentally nimble already facing the next topic. With his expertise he sweeps across a boundless Europe - a continent he wants to open up a "think tank New Style". For this purpose he has in one place, which is an outpost today, set up his headquarters: in Turkey.

Rumelihisarc where the 36-year-old lives with his wife and three young daughters, was a few years ago a village. Today it is a suburb of Istanbul, picturesquely situated on the Bosporus. The path leads over steep steps up the hill, which does not make the family shopping. As a consolation, it offers a panoramic view over the strait, from the up sluggish toot the sirens. And the baker with sesame bagels goes, like a hundred years ago, with his goods from door to door.

Up here, on the very edge of the European continental mass, Gerald Knaus sits whenever he is not indispensable elsewhere, and then he works on Europe. He is co-founder of the small but internationally renowned think tank European Stability Initiative (ESI). The mission of the think tank could be paraphrased like this: Search the ever-enlarging Europe, explore, and help politicians in finding their way in it.

Knaus himself is probably best described as a role model for all those who are described as not afraid of this new and unknown Europe.

Full article here:
http://www.zeit.de/2006/13/oe_europa

Now I caution people to not blame the ESI for being behind the move for mass immigration to Europe, they have put forth many proposals into law and advised EU and German politicians to stop any moves for border control true, but they are just one cog in one greater phenomenon, one greater machine that cannot stop. And yes they are the geniuses who came up with the plan to solve illegal migration by making it legal, as their goal is creating a new and unknown cosmopolitan Europe.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

In order to promote discussion and debate among the policy community all ESI publications are widely distributed and available on its website free of charge. ESI's efforts depend on the contributions of governments, corporations and private individuals to fund its activities.
http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=11

With some parallels to be drawn between them and the open society foundation (https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/), aimed at making tolerant and vibrant democracies. You guys think I came up with toleran and progresiv? I don't do satire, nothing can be exaggerated. Both are funded by Soros and their ilk, Soros also serving as a hilarious face for a nebulous group of highly influential and highly wealthy multinational practitioners.

Quote

Anyone who has experienced up close, as influenced history is at such moments that comes from the temptation to shape it as fast probably not going.
In Bosnia, after the treaty of Dayton, it must have been like that. To whom should we contact who can be trusted, who told brazen lies, what is possible and what is not? Knaus and some friends, all experts in the orbit of NGOs, World Bank, UN and OSCE, observed the perplexity of the decision makers at close range. One evening they were sitting in the garden of the hunters association Lovac, an inn in the center of Sarajevo, and decided to remedy the situation - it was the beginning of their research institute.

The money comes from governments and foundations, from Scandinavia, Ireland, the Rockefeller Foundation, the German Marshall Fund, the First Bank.

Quote

ESI's 8 founding members were a group of young people who had worked in different organisations in and on the Balkans: OSCE, the World Bank, OHR, the European Commission, various European Foreign Ministries. Their motivation: to help international institutions understand their environment and become more effective in post-war Bosnia-Herzegovina, and to advance the integration of the Balkans into the European Union following the end of the Kosovo war.
The founding members were soon joined by others who shared these ambitions. (http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=188&picturestory_ID=1)

The first European government to support ESI was Sweden and the head of its Balkan Department, Bjoern Lyrvall.

In March 2000 the Swedish Foreign Ministry and ESI organised a high-level policy seminar at Johannesberg Castle near Stockholm to reflect on ways forward for Bosnia. Gerald presented ESI's ideas. The seminar was attended by High Representative Wolfgang Petritsch and former High Representative Carl Bildt.

President Clinton's envoy, US Ambassador Richard Sklar, would soon refer to "Stockholm conclusions": an emerging policy consensus in favour of strengthening central state institutions. Following the Stockholm seminar, ESI cooperated closely with OHR in preparing for the Brussels Peace Implementation Council (PIC) meeting held in May 2000.  (http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=188&picturestory_ID=8)

Thanks to our unique network of Strategic Partners and Supporters, we are able to offer our analysis and services free of charge.

We gratefully acknowledge the generous support of all our donors, who value our work and have supported us financially. The Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency is suporting our work on EU enlargement, capacity building, and EU-Turkey relations. Stiftung Mercator and the Robert Bosch Stiftung have made the Schengen White List Project possible, which aims to contribute to the abolition of the visa requirement for all Western Balkan countries and Turkey. The Foundation to Promote Open Society supports our work to promote reform of key European institutions and to ensure a more robust response to human rights violations, most notably politically-motivated detentions and torture. ERSTE Stiftung is supporting ESI's work on the Balkans and on EU enlargement, including the EU enlargement portal. ERSTE Stiftung also funded the Return to Europe documentary films.

The Swiss Foreign Ministry supported our work on advocating for an inclusive debate on the education system in Kosovo. The Dutch Foreign Ministry supported our research on Macedonia's stalled EU accession. The European Commission supported our research project on EU-Turkey relations. The Charles Stewart Mott Foundation helped us to support local efforts to map social and economic trends. The Norwegian Minstry of Foreign Affairs and the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office were supporting our municipal research and allowing us to present it to an even wider audience. The British Department for International Development supported an ESI Bosnian Governance Assessment. The Open Society Institute was a major core funder, also supporting capacity building in the Caucasus. We would not have been able to co-organize conferences without the cooperation with partners such as Wilton Park and the King Baudouin Foundation. In the past, the Governments of Sweden, Slovenia, Ireland, Canada, Germany and the Dutch Embassy in Sarajevo have been dedicated supporters of ESI, funding our research and our studies. The United States Institute of Peace has funded the ESI Montenegro project, enabling us to produce two major reports and a policy proposal. The Swedish Institute for International Affairs sponsored and co-organised ESI's first high-level brainstorming seminar, inviting key policy makers and regional experts to develop new policy concepts for the future. Core funding has been provided by a variety of Supporters, most notably the German Marshall Fund of the United States, and the Swedish government which in particular has supported our work on the Balkans and Turkey. With their generous financial support, all these institutions have enabled us to directly assist policymakers engaged in difficult decisions on complex issues.

With their generous financial support, all these institutions have enabled us to directly assist policymakers engaged in difficult decisions on complex issues. We thank all our Supporters for their constant encouragement and financial support!

Current supporters:
Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency
   
Stiftung Mercator
   
Foundation to promote Open Society

ERSTE Stiftung
   
DIE ERSTE österreichische Spar-Casse Privatstiftung

Past supporters:

Robert Bosch Stiftung
      
Swedish Government
   
Utenriksdepartementet

Open Society Institute

Rockefeller Brothers Fund
   
Charles Stewart Mott Foundation

Department for International Development (DFID)

European Commission

Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
   
Ministrstvo za zunanje zadeve
   
Departement of Foreign Affairs

Auswärtiges Amt

Udenriksministeriet

Ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken

United States institute Of Peace

Utrikespolitiska Institutet

DEZA

The German Marshall Fund of the United States

Foreign & Commonwealth Office

King Baudouin Foundation

Körber Stiftung

Wilton Park
http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=65[/quote]

Well that's just a window into a few of the governments and corporations that want a new Europe and aren't just riding the commercial wave of the progresiv march. Europoors I think you've long since already lost, I even now realize my cultural enrichment plan would be almost exactly the same as theirs. All bases are covered, there is no point in politics, it's all over - less stress to merely be a watcher, an observer, shitposting for future's keepsake how it all went so wrong because the hands must trust the brain and the brain must trust its sensors, the sensors being wholly dependent upon a manipulable environment.

I may even quit shitposting altogether as it's less and less fun. I shitpost some ridiculous stupid enrichment joke and then it happens in real life, I kinda just want to cast my votes and go fishing, to kek I praise and to human I fall

Respect the robot

But alas, I am being too pessimistic at times, the fight is never over for as long as opposition still breathes. Founder of FTSE 100 broker backs EU exit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35822037)
WE ARE NOT ALONE, OUR CULTURALLY ENRICHED COALITION WILL DEFEAT THEIR CULTURALLY ENRICHED COALITION, FOR OURS IS MORE ENRICHED THAN THEIRS
TO VICTORY BASED TAQIYYAH SCOT
TO VICTORY BASED SMILING SOT
TO VICTORY BASED RHUBARB POT

Quote

Mr Hargreaves said demand for goods in and from the UK would spur quick and favourable trade deals, and the popularity of British fashion and brands such as Rolls-Royce and Jaguar would help the UK flourish after an exit.

"Can you imagine if they put up a trade barrier - and we would reciprocate immediately - just imagine the three phone calls [German Chancellor] Angela Merkel would get the following day, the chief executive of [Volkswagen], the chief executive of Mercedes and the chief executive of BMW."

WEW I WAS RIGHT

Quote

"We raise money for the Russians; we raise money all over the world, for countries that are not in Europe," he said. "They've got to use London. London can raise billions on a few phone calls."

SUBTLE CONFIRMATION THAT LONDON SHEKEL WIZARDS LITERALLY MAKES BILLIONS EX NIHILO WITH POTENT STERLING MAGIC

EUROWARLOCKS BTFO (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35822037)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on March 18, 2016, 12:31:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 10:27:41 am

When Gaddafi said that Europe will beg for mercy on the hands of refugees if he was to be deposed, everyone laughed.

Gaddafi, may his spellings be many, confirmed for prophet?
If you'd like me to tone down the shitposts, do say so
France should leave EU and capitalize on its little-known land borders to join its South American neighbors in glorious UNASUL (we totally have no corruption, I promise).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2016, 12:57:07 pm

Quote

Meaning, Germany should make a unilateral action. However, not to build a fence, but with a quota solution with Turkey. "A quick solution quota would have meant that more accurately know who is coming to Europe."

Refugees could be selected and in the population is not feeling the flooding and helplessness emerged. The acceptance would have been for greater in Europe and it was more possible to include countries such as Austria or Sweden.
"Speak rather of day a few hundred people"

He openly says in the "world" interview that he had advised politicians, the number of refugees in the quotas express so that it sounded less threatening for the population.

You should not call the number of 500,000 refugees per year: "We have politicians therefore recommended in the past few months: Call no total number of contingents from Turkey Speak rather of a daily quota of a few hundred people!."

The man who designed Merkel's refugee policy says, so that the only way to implement it, a bilateral agreement on a quota solution is between Germany and Turkey, which the EU initially sidelined leaves. That should be clear long ago also Merkel.

That Germany should shoulder the burden of the refugee crisis, while the EU cross arises, can the voters so naturally not say. But probably it would have been better, the population to miss this shock, instead of letting them in uncertainty.
http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2016/03/17/gerald-knaus-merkel-fluechtlinge_n_9483070.html

Hahahahaha why do I have to be right about this

I'm sorry Helgo but the only people who were honest to you about what was being done to your country were anonymous shitposters on the internet
God damn
Maybe I should actually shitpost for a cause, actually try to convince people as this is just insane. Sad thing is they'll never have to live with the consequences of their actions, but at least the people who voted for their puppets will (unless they cowardly die or flee).

They've also experimented on making Kosovan children progresiv (http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=156&document_ID=157)

I don't think cultural enrichment can stop the gears from turning
We need national globalists to thwart globalists and nationalists to thwart international socialists

Spoiler: also this wouldn't solve anything but it would help obstruct them (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/R71Kavh.jpg)

Quote from: Teneb on March 18, 2016, 12:31:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 10:27:41 am

When Gaddafi said that Europe will beg for mercy on the hands of refugees if he was to be deposed, everyone laughed.

Gaddafi, may his spellings be many, confirmed for prophet?
If you'd like me to tone down the shitposts, do say so
France should leave EU and capitalize on its little-known land borders to join its South American neighbors in glorious UNASUL (we totally have no corruption, I promise).

You should see him in the Arab council when he warned them all that the West would go after its former allies one by one and kill them all, and any one of them could be next. They laughed at him, he died next, but the best is Assad laughing - this was no threat, but a promise.
Though to be fair Gaddafi was not necessary and I have zero doubts the European Union would have any issue at all working out a new way to find migrants, our Labour gov actively went abroad to find people lol I don't doubt they'd be up for hire by Commission or Bundestag

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2016, 01:00:23 pm

Both the French president Hollande, as well as the Belgian prime minister Charles Michel have left the meeting with Turkey, to discuss the capture of Saleh Abdelsalam.
Likely, Hollande is asking for extradition right away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 03:35:48 pm

Erdogan claims fighting terrorism outweighs democracy in Turkey (http://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-claims-fighting-terrorism-outweighs-democracy-in-turkey/a-19120587). (color and size added to stress the key points)

Quote

Combating terrorism is Turkey's highest priority, even higher than the rule of law, Turkish President Erdogan has said. Following a recent bomb attack in Ankara, he has pledged to crack down on Kurdish dissidents.

"Democracy, freedom and the rule of law," have "absolutely no value any longer," President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told local leaders in Ankara on Wednesday.

"Those who stand on our side in the fight against terrorism are our friend. Those on the opposite side, are our enemy," he said in the televised comments, according to DPA news agency.

Turkey will employ "an iron fist against terrorism" and "fight Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) militants," Erdogan told a televised gathering of local district leaders in Ankara Wednesday.

The president also made critical remarks about the pro-Kurdish Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP), which has 80 seats in parliament.

"Wherever you run, our soldiers, police and village guards will find you there and do what is necessary," the president said.

Lifting Kurdish MPs' immunity

Turkey's parliament has set up a committee to consider lifting the immunity of five members of parliament (MPs) from the HDP, including party leaders Selahattin Demirtas and Figen Yuksekdag. This would make it possible to try them over their call for Kurdish autonomy.
Erdogan called on parliament to "swiftly" end immunity from prosecution for pro-Kurdish lawmakers.

"I no longer see as legitimate political actors the members of a party which is operating as a branch of the terrorist organization," Erdogan said, repeating his claim that the HDP is a front for the outlawed PKK.

Turkish media reported that a simple majority in a vote in parliament - where Erdogan's Justice and Development Party (AKP) holds over half the seats - would be enough to strip the MPs of their immunity.

A powerful Syrian Kurdish political party said Wednesday that it planned to declare a federal region in northern Syria, across the border from Turkey. Erdogan said Turkey would not support any form of Kurdish self-rule in the country.

[SADDAM ERDOGAN INTENSIFIES]

I literally can't stress it hard enough, this is the kind of people EU considers as acceptable to deal, nay, appease. This is literally bullshit. I've seen people calling Putin's Russia as "dictatorship in all but name", and Putin has not pulled anything even close to half of bullshit that Erdogan is currently pushing through, and (the most infuriating part for me) he's getting away with it completely and utterly scot-free! He even gets paid to commit atrocities. 6 fucking billion Euro.

Is there some secret to this? Some magic words, upon issuing which Europe just gives you money, free benefits (hello visa-free travel) and improved partnership for basically no tangible reason (exchanging illegal migrants for legal migrants 1 to 1 TOP KEK), even if you're guilty of most vile crimes against humanity, democracy and human rights?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2016, 03:56:01 pm

Sergarr, this is not even the first time this happens. As I said before, there has been a migration crisis for decades in Southern Europe. One of the attempts to "solve" the problem was to secure the help of the King of Morocco, Muhammad VI. Who proceeded to take care of the problem by getting all the migrants he was receiving from Europe, putting them in buses.... and dumping them in the f*ing desert near the Algerian border (http://elpais.com/elpais/2005/10/08/actualidad/1128759417_850215.html). Nice guy, no?  Well, he remained a favored trading partner for the EU until last year a tribunal (NOT the European parlament, mind you, they were still trying to remain BFF) cancelled the accords with him because of his widespread human rights abuses in Western Sahara (which have been taking place for the last 40 years, for the record).


Anyway, who wants to bet that Erdogan will pull a page from Muhammed VI's manual and start dumping refugees in the Syrian border? Except Kurdish refugees, I guess. Heaven help you if you are kurdish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 03:59:59 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2016, 03:56:01 pm

Anyway, who wants to bet that Erdogan will pull a page from Muhammed VI's manual and start dumping refugees in the Syrian border? Except Kurdish refugees, I guess. Heaven help you if you are kurdish

They already tried doing that, by setting up refugee camps inside of Syria proper. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35519393)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 18, 2016, 06:34:26 pm

Its funny how europe sailed towards despotic amoral fucks again.
Its what you get when you subjects instead of citizens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 18, 2016, 06:41:39 pm

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 18, 2016, 06:34:26 pm

Its funny how europe sailed towards despotic amoral fucks again.
Its what you get when you subjects instead of citizens.

You mean towards Erdogan?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 18, 2016, 06:44:21 pm

Merkel and such humanoids.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 18, 2016, 06:50:39 pm

I don't see Merkel and Hollande (isn't that like, a dutch name?) and Cameron as despotic. Not on the level of Erdogan anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 18, 2016, 07:09:49 pm

Yet..
But in the end such "strong wo(men)" always go towards their own agendas.
If i had a better grasp in english i would start to make a parody of the modern european poli(ticks) based around the berserker world.
In this continent, is the destiny of europe controlled by some transcendental entity or law? Is it like the European Parliament hovering above? At least it is true that Europeans have no control; even over their own will.
 Now its the time to assign your leaders to the godhand.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 18, 2016, 08:41:59 pm

Erdogan going full dictator so openly is something that should be impossible. Abusing a terrorism threat to destroy all rights is a move done so many times by dictators before. The fact that he is largely getting away with it ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2016, 08:55:11 pm

The reason it has been done by so many before him is because it works

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 19, 2016, 04:36:44 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 18, 2016, 08:41:59 pm

Erdogan going full dictator so openly is something that should be impossible. Abusing a terrorism threat to destroy all rights is a move done so many times by dictators before. The fact that he is largely getting away with it ridiculous.

Why? France gets away with it after the Paris attacks (national state of emergency ever since, planned to go on for a few years, with extra special permissions for police and army, and curfews. Erdogan is just going like "hey I can do what France can do too!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 19, 2016, 06:59:42 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 18, 2016, 06:50:39 pm

I don't see Merkel and Hollande (isn't that like, a dutch name?) and Cameron as despotic. Not on the level of Erdogan anyway.

No, european governments are just decentralized authoritarian complexes, so you can't stop them by removing the leader, it's the same from the smallest blade of grass to the tallest mountain. Take for example the Dutch or German twitter thought police ready to knock on your door if you hatethink online or the Britbureaus et friends collecting loads of data for... Something. Not sure what they're doing with it, but they have it. And then Sweden where if you get bombed the gov will treat is as vandalism if you are not the right Swede.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 19, 2016, 07:05:33 am

double post

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 19, 2016, 07:08:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2016, 11:59:30 am

-snip-

George Soros, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the Swedish government funding the ESI? It can't be! That's just a right-wing conspiracy!

Viktor Orban was right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 19, 2016, 07:13:34 am

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2016-01/06/mass-surveillance-william-binney-nsa-uk-ip-bill
So this is what they're using that data for
2sp00ky4me

Quote from: Morrigi on March 19, 2016, 07:08:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2016, 11:59:30 am

-snip-

George Soros, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the Swedish government funding the ESI? It can't be! That's just a right-wing conspiracy!

Viktor Orban was right.

Straight from their website
The usual suspects don't surprise me though, interesting to note is the UK Foreign Office was a previous supporter of them, I'm guessing under Blair or Brown?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 19, 2016, 07:18:33 am

The DFID is also on the list, and part of the UK government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 19, 2016, 07:29:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 19, 2016, 04:36:44 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 18, 2016, 08:41:59 pm

Erdogan going full dictator so openly is something that should be impossible. Abusing a terrorism threat to destroy all rights is a move done so many times by dictators before. The fact that he is largely getting away with it ridiculous.

Why? France gets away with it after the Paris attacks (national state of emergency ever since, planned to go on for a few years, with extra special permissions for police and army, and curfews. Erdogan is just going like "hey I can do what France can do too!"

The scale of Erdogan's repression is a multitude worse than what France is doing. There is almost no comparing. France hasn't arrested 2000 people for insulting the president or closed newspapers for being too critical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 20, 2016, 01:56:26 am

The comparison of Merkel to someone who's on the path to some ethnic cleansing routines seems a bit extreme to me, to be honest. 'Authoritarian' implies that no one wants it. I'm not saying it's a good thing to have, but people are rarely very good at knowing what's best for them. Odds are there's plenty of support for this, so calling a democratically elected leader enacting plans with popular support, ones that are supposed to be about inclusion and helping people. Incompetently so, yes. But the moral hierarchy does not place them at the bottom. Somewhere in the middle-ish, perhaps. Not the top either, though.

Seriously though the whole extreme sides of political spectrum on opposite sides of the Atlantic thing going on is really weird, anyone have any idea if they're feeding off each other?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 20, 2016, 05:09:02 am

For the far-right, there is quite a bit of overlap in ideology due to the internet. Supporters of the European populist right often also support Trump, and vice versa. I would say that the authoritarian left is similar in that regard. However, I believe that right-wing nationalist movements are more likely to engage in symbiotic relationships with similar movements in other countries due to their more grassroots nature.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 20, 2016, 11:58:49 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 19, 2016, 07:29:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 19, 2016, 04:36:44 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 18, 2016, 08:41:59 pm

Erdogan going full dictator so openly is something that should be impossible. Abusing a terrorism threat to destroy all rights is a move done so many times by dictators before. The fact that he is largely getting away with it ridiculous.

Why? France gets away with it after the Paris attacks (national state of emergency ever since, planned to go on for a few years, with extra special permissions for police and army, and curfews. Erdogan is just going like "hey I can do what France can do too!"

The scale of Erdogan's repression is a multitude worse than what France is doing. There is almost no comparing. France hasn't arrested 2000 people for insulting the president or closed newspapers for being too critical.

France has given out stiff fines for "insulting the dignity of the Republic" for decades. No further change was needed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 12:54:06 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 20, 2016, 11:51:09 am

60 Minutes Australia crew rock up in Stockholm and get beaten up by Somali migrants after being there for five minutes. Somewhat unremarkable, sadly, but the moment when a native Swedish guy manages to save them by ramming his mobility scooter into one of the migrants at top speed (https://youtu.be/42jpuXJPk0w?t=352) is pretty hilarious and worth watching.

Though it looks like the 60 Minutes crew then basically legged it and left their heroic mobility-impaired Norse rescuer to fight the gang off himself. Sweden yes, Australia no?

To be fair, I suppose the soundman at least wasn't in much condition to fight after another group of Somali migrants ran him over within two minutes of the 60 Minutes crew first stepping out of their car (also quite funny, though I suppose it really shouldn't be. Happens at around the 3m mark).

Why were the migrants attacking the news crew though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Graknorke on March 21, 2016, 07:27:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 12:54:06 am

Why were the migrants attacking the news crew though?

Because the media is run by the white racist patriarchy and needs to be more progresiv and toleran and the only way to make that happen is to be violent and uncompromising. Haven't you learned anything from being on the internet?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 21, 2016, 07:29:39 pm

Maybe they thought they were austrian instead of australian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 21, 2016, 07:48:45 pm

(removed)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 07:54:10 pm

(removed)

I can't tell if you're shitposting ironically or being bigoted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 21, 2016, 08:41:16 pm

Shitposting.
But still,what does a country gain from this immigration thing?
I mean it may bring an economic boost when it is qualified people , holding technical degrees or professional ones.
But when it is someone that is barely literate in their own tongue? Then what could be hoped from a person that never got a good education?
Could they get a job that will let them live in a decent way or they will just slack and just farm social benefits and welfare?
(Want to see other people viewpoint on this topic.and since this should be a somewhat civilised forum let's hope it ain't devolving into petty shitposting.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 21, 2016, 08:53:14 pm

Alright, I'll point out the obvious one:

Unqualified immigrants often do jobs that noone else wants to do. In that they can be a boon to the economy as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 08:56:17 pm

Well, that's exactly the topic that is raging over in Europe. The other (and not particularily publicized) problem that the European countries are facing is that their birth rate is below the replacement rate, so Europe really does need immigrants, just not at the firehose rate that they currently get. Although they are having serious problems with integrating those that they DO get otherwise.

Anyways, if the migrants are willing, they can be offered classes to help improve their education and develop skills.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 21, 2016, 08:53:14 pm

Alright, I'll point out the obvious one:

Unqualified immigrants often do jobs that noone else wants to do. In that they can be a boon to the economy as well.

True that. See the agricultural industry here in the US and migrant workers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 21, 2016, 09:31:33 pm

The thing is if their sons or daughters will improve upon their parents.
About the Latin Americans as agricultural workers is the issue about that from my personal experience half the migrants we get in Chile as agricultural workers are what in not so nice words could be called poor urban populations.I believe this could true for several other countries.
As someone that studied in an agricultural school and now I'm my first year studying agronomy it pains me to see someone claim they used to be farmers and not even know how to hold a shovel or in fact use properly a hoe and then complain about back problems.
You will say that someone without any skill can be an agricultural worker.but the fact is most of the time they would be only good as menial workers or do extremely repetitive task that could be easily replaced by a cheap tractor.
Agricultural tasks require skilled people. This issue can easily be noticed with the Khmer rouge idiotic mentality.
You can't just drag a person from a city and expe ct them to be an effective farmer.
You just end up having less harvests for a given field and also lowering the quality of the soil and wasting water to get less money for your investments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 09:37:59 pm

I was thinking mainly of the Mexican migrant workers. Can't vouch for their skill or anything, but apparently they are needed in the agricultural industry for the work that Americans don't want to do and that we haven't created cheap autonomous replacements for. I know the agricultural industry isn't the only place that immigrant workers play a role in.

The thing though is that we're talking about the American economy when we should be talking about the European economy, and I know nothing about the role of unskilled (or poorly skilled) immigrants in the European economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 21, 2016, 09:41:49 pm

That last thing is what puzzles me.
In what economic roles they fail,In which ones they succeed.
It's something important to know once they became part of European Countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 22, 2016, 12:33:23 am

Here's the thing.

A lot of the time, second generation immigrants have really damn good work ethic, because they have to, and their parents make sure they damn well know how hard it was to get to this point so they're gonna go to college goddamnit. Many of a country's best minds can be made of immigrants. Furthermore, immigrants provide cheap labor. Period. They are looked down on, don't have connections to get good jobs, rarely have the rights/respect of native workers, particularly if illegal, and have to make do with the jobs they get. In reasonable numbers, they tend to boost the economy. Massive influxes/a focus on human rights and not letting these people get treated like crap counters most of the advantages they bring due to less pressure and more overflow.

Thing is, Europe isn't America. America is a nation of immigrants. Europe is a continent that is already at capacity. Immigrants don't help nearly as much. They still do, but they don't have the same 'Capitalism HO!' mentality that allows for the same levels of exploitation. Even if they did, this many people simply can't be integrated into existing structures effectively.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 22, 2016, 02:00:45 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 21, 2016, 09:37:59 pm

I was thinking mainly of the Mexican migrant workers. Can't vouch for their skill or anything, but apparently they are needed in the agricultural industry for the work that Americans don't want to do and that we haven't created cheap autonomous replacements for. I know the agricultural industry isn't the only place that immigrant workers play a role in.

The thing though is that we're talking about the American economy when we should be talking about the European economy, and I know nothing about the role of unskilled (or poorly skilled) immigrants in the European economy.

In Sweden, they don't. Not any more, at least. The days in which there were enough unskilled work to employ the high amount of unskilled or wrong-skilled immigrants are over. We still get a lot of work immigration, but those are still skilled workers imported through particular immigration programmes because of their skill.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 02:48:54 am

People were killed, and people were injured today, when two explosions took place in Brussels Airport, near the check-in counter for American Airlines. Authorities cannot say yet if this was a terrorist attack or an accident.

EDIT: police confirmed just now that it is indeed a terrorist attack.

So much for airport security.
https://twitter.com/AAhronheim/status/712177856768569344/video/1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:06:49 am

Well, check-in counter is the place you drop your luggage at before airport security. Thanks god no one I know was at the airport today AFAIK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:20:21 am

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 21, 2016, 08:41:16 pm

Shitposting.
But still,what does a country gain from this immigration thing?
I mean it may bring an economic boost when it is qualified people , holding technical degrees or professional ones.
But when it is someone that is barely literate in their own tongue? Then what could be hoped from a person that never got a good education?
Could they get a job that will let them live in a decent way or they will just slack and just farm social benefits and welfare?
(Want to see other people viewpoint on this topic.and since this should be a somewhat civilised forum let's hope it ain't devolving into petty shitposting.)

Do you see the problem here?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Haspen on March 22, 2016, 03:33:08 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2016, 03:27:18 am

Apparently another explosion has been reported at Brussels' Malbeek metro station, and shots were fired and Arabic shouting heard immediately prior to the blasts at the airport.

Euronews confirmed that just now.

According to them, two bombs went off at the airport and at least two metro stations had been bombed as well (Malbeek and Schumann (dunno how to spell this one)).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:02:28 am

Maelbeek and Schuman are like, two hundred meters apart, so it might be confusion and the same bombs. But jeez. And we were in high alert. You mean to say to deploying 2àà soldiers in the street don't make them terrorist-proof?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:05:47 am

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12240142_10209087961982297_3509686917911053490_n.jpg?oh=a405f0c1b31c67d8d50942959d9bcf12&oe=57806CCB)



Well, at least they'll have an excuse to redecorate. That place was ugly as shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:06:03 am

These were probably improvised, rushed attacks, by the friends of Saleh Abdelsalem, blowing stuff up before he is tortured into giving their names and locations.

Also, holy fuck, that photo. That was no small explosion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:13:20 am

And, and that hall tends to be packed. I seriously doubt the 11 fatalities will be the final number when the dust settle. Jeez.

Spoiler: Also, some people really are in a hurry. (Slightl graphic) (click to show/hide)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-0/p403x403/1457596_10209087979582737_6913714976780475102_n.jpg?oh=10a287ce5e6c0f18a7b07c7f64b08d5b&oe=577D078C)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:16:34 am

his right leg looks.. terrible. Looks like there's no skin left on it, you look straight at the muscle tissue

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 04:17:47 am

Just in time for Russia. Now European media will be busy with those terror acts and verdict in Savchenko's trial will be much less noticed. It must be yet another coincidence, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:19:40 am

Ok, my stepmom apparently was already at her office (which is right above Maelbeek). She's stuck in, but she's safe. God thanks the Czech work ethic. Everyone I know should be safe. No news of my sister, but she never take the metro anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 22, 2016, 04:20:33 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 04:17:47 am

Just in time for Russia. Now European media will be busy with those terror acts and verdict in Savchenko's trial will be much less noticed. It must be yet another coincidence, right?

Are you seriously trying to imply that Russia is behind this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:36:15 am

Here in the Netherlands our ministers have met in an emergency meeting. They have decided not to increase the threat level, but they will increase border patrols along the Belgian border, and increase military and police patrols on airports and major train stations right away.

I guess that expains the sudden increase of police helicopters hovering over my neighborhood, and the police cars partolling it since 9am or some such this morning.
My neighborhood isn't as notorious as Molenbeek, but it is one of the problem neighborhoods. Brussels is just slightly more than 1 hour driving from here, I guess they want to make sure they're not gonna hide out here :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 22, 2016, 04:43:24 am

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 22, 2016, 04:20:33 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 04:17:47 am

Just in time for Russia. Now European media will be busy with those terror acts and verdict in Savchenko's trial will be much less noticed. It must be yet another coincidence, right?

Are you seriously trying to imply that Russia is behind this?

Yes, yes he does. In fact, most Ukrainian social networks are currently saying that this is indeed what's happening. UR is just re-translating their position here.

Quite something, those Ukrainian guys, huh?

P.S. this is why there are scientists in Ukraine that say that Ukraine was the ancestor country of every "good" (i.e. not Russian/Mongol/African) nation in the world - and they're not just laughed off by others. Something makes them think that the world revolves solely around them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:49:56 am

The Amsterdam police has gotten some complaints about people celebrating the Brussels attacks. They call upon anyone who sees such a thing, to immediatly report it to the police.

EDIT: the Brussels police has called upon the people to stop using their telephones, as the networks are failing from being too crowded. They ask people to use facebook and twitter instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:52:43 am

Yeah, or text, which is less data-intensive. Just saw that from an aquaintance on my FB page, made me smile:

Quote

When the bomb went off at Maelbeek I was one stop away. I had just stepped off the metro. Everyone at Arts-Loi station felt the loud yet muffled thud before a cloud of dust lifted into the air. People started to panic but didn't freak out - there's so much construction in Brussels everyday that it's hard to say exactly what noise comes from where.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:56:21 am

He / she be very lucky today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 05:02:07 am

In unrelated news, the Dutch government decided today, to immediatly stop paying out aid money to Ukrainian refugees that have been denied asylum, to stop abuse.
In the Netherlands, an asylum seeker gets about 2000 euros when he/she voluontarily returns to his country of origin.

Now, Ukrainians from the eastern, war torn part of the country, can apply for asylum in the Netherlands. But over the past months, it has come to light that most Ukrainian refugees do not come from the east at all, but from the western, safe part of the country. They come, apply for asylum, usually quickly cancel the procedure themselves, apply for voluontary return, and return home with 2000 euros. From today, that's no longer possible. The state will still pay their return ticket, and 200 euros to cover first expenses back home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 05:14:32 am

Well hopefully you and other folks in and around the area are safe martinuzz.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 05:46:38 am

Right now, station Hoofddorp (Netherlands, near Amsterdam) is being evacuated, and an international train arriving there has been detained, passengers onboard report military police combing the train with dogs. People in the area report many emergency services have gathered there, and helicopters are circling the station.

Belga(belgian press) just reports that police and military forces have arrived at nuclear power plants, for extra protection.

EDIT: Belgium has decided to completely close the border with France for the time being.
And the Belgian prime minister has decreed a curfew, asking every citizen of Belgium to remain where they are, and not go anywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 05:55:22 am

Quote from: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 05:14:32 am

Well hopefully you and other folks in and around the area are safe martinuzz.

He's not even in the same country! Damn Dutch, we didn't have a revolution so you could steal our sympathy! :p

Brussels is on lockdown, no real news from the government, but then it's not like you could expect much from these wankers. Death toll apparently now 11 at the airport, 15 at Maelbeek.

Edit: Or 11 and 10? Hard to say. Apparently the metro attack took place on a train that was between Maelbeek and Schuman, hence the reports of an attack on Schuman.

Prime Minister is giving a press conference, where all he can says is that he knows nothing. No number of the fatalities, no information on a possible link between the attacks and the arrestation of the Paris mastermind. Not surprising this ealry, but then wy bother having a press conference at all?

Edit again: Apparently the nuclear power plants had soldiers on guard duty since this weekend. Not sure if it was some planned thing or a sign the government suspected a retaliation for the arrest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 05:58:27 am

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 22, 2016, 04:20:33 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 04:17:47 am

Just in time for Russia. Now European media will be busy with those terror acts and verdict in Savchenko's trial will be much less noticed. It must be yet another coincidence, right?

Are you seriously trying to imply that Russia is behind this?

Behind is a vague term. Of course Russia doesn't control Islamic terrorism, they have their own leaders, goals, ideology. And it wasn't - "Hey, cell in Belgium, Masters from Moscow order you to explode bombs here and there" kind of stuff.

Yet I  am more than sure that Russia has a lot of its agents inside to influence their actions in subtle ways. I am sure that Russia provides some assistance to them, from information to bombs in exchange for favours that benefit Russian foreign policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 06:02:02 am

So the 15 death from the metro come from the metro agency, which also says 55 injured, 10 of them critically.

Some hospital that earlier called for blood donations are now saying they have more than enough. Nice to see some decent response.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 06:05:21 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 05:55:22 am

He's not even in the same country! Damn Dutch, we didn't have a revolution so you could steal our sympathy! :p

You know we should really just combine Noord Brabant and Flanders to form the Volksrepubliek menne zachte Gee. Germany can have our Limburgs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 06:24:21 am

Oh, sorry about the goof up. Running on all of three hours of sleep at the moment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:31:54 am

When I woke up (6:30 right now in California), looked at this thread and saw the terror attack stuff. My first thought was 'Oh hell....'

So, as far as I can tell, there has been two attacks, one at an airport and one at the metro, right?

I hope all of the Bay12ers and people they know are safe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:41:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:49:56 am

The Amsterdam police has gotten some complaints about people celebrating the Brussels attacks. They call upon anyone who sees such a thing, to immediatly report it to the police.

*facepalm*

If you guys do have that happening, fucking record it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:57:56 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2016, 08:48:41 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:41:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:49:56 am

The Amsterdam police has gotten some complaints about people celebrating the Brussels attacks. They call upon anyone who sees such a thing, to immediatly report it to the police.

*facepalm*

If you guys do have that happening, fucking record it!

I don't know about specific laws in Belgium, but over here we've repeatedly had very large groups of people people marching through the capital openly advocating for the beheading of their political/religious opponents, demanding the death and destruction of our leaders and culture, and celebrating ISIS and other terrorists as martyrs and heroes. They do this under police protection.

I'd be very surprised if recording the people celebrating this terrorist attack did any good.

Where would 'here' be? Just wondering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 09:14:19 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:57:56 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2016, 08:48:41 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:41:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:49:56 am

The Amsterdam police has gotten some complaints about people celebrating the Brussels attacks. They call upon anyone who sees such a thing, to immediatly report it to the police.

*facepalm*

If you guys do have that happening, fucking record it!

I don't know about specific laws in Belgium, but over here we've repeatedly had very large groups of people people marching through the capital openly advocating for the beheading of their political/religious opponents, demanding the death and destruction of our leaders and culture, and celebrating ISIS and other terrorists as martyrs and heroes. They do this under police protection.

I'd be very surprised if recording the people celebrating this terrorist attack did any good.

Where would 'here' be? Just wondering.

Sounds suspiciously like Germany. That or one of the Scandinavian countries. Sweden perhaps?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 09:20:08 am

All staff from the Belgian nuclear power plant of Tihange has been evacuated from the power plant, in the light of today's terrorists attacks. There's not more information. The belgian federal court has asked the press to not report anymore on the ongoing situation in Belgium, to not hinder the investigation.


Death toll has risen to 30, more expected still. Number of injured above 100.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 22, 2016, 09:29:00 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 09:14:19 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:57:56 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2016, 08:48:41 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 08:41:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:49:56 am

The Amsterdam police has gotten some complaints about people celebrating the Brussels attacks. They call upon anyone who sees such a thing, to immediatly report it to the police.

*facepalm*

If you guys do have that happening, fucking record it!

I don't know about specific laws in Belgium, but over here we've repeatedly had very large groups of people people marching through the capital openly advocating for the beheading of their political/religious opponents, demanding the death and destruction of our leaders and culture, and celebrating ISIS and other terrorists as martyrs and heroes. They do this under police protection.

I'd be very surprised if recording the people celebrating this terrorist attack did any good.

Where would 'here' be? Just wondering.

Sounds suspiciously like Germany. That or one of the Scandinavian countries. Sweden perhaps?

He's UK, iirc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 09:33:31 am

I think in most western European countries it is legal to demonstrate carrying IS flags. Because constitution, and free speech. Last week our supreme court undid a new law which made it illegal to apologize acts of terrorism, because there was not enough guaruantuee given to prevent abuse and protect press and scientific publication from said law.

Making it illegal is also not smart from a intelligence point of view. WHen they're waving flags out in the open, it's kinda easy to take pictures and register people. When they're no longer allowed to do that, they'll be underground and untracable.

EDIT: 3 suspcts have been arrested so far. 2 in Brussels, one in the train that was stopped near Amsterdam. Belgian authorities report that there still are more perpetrators at large.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 09:58:18 am

I didn't think you had freeze peach in Europe. Our newspapers say you don't, anyways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 10:01:12 am

"Freeze peach"? Are you twelve?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 10:01:29 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 09:58:18 am

Our newspapers say you don't, anyways.

I must assume you're from Turkey?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miauw62 on March 22, 2016, 10:05:33 am

Biggest commercial belgian tv channel is still reporting the dead count as 11 or maybe 14.

Nvm, that's airport only.

Can't say much. Heard it in school, apparently every other school was locked down pending evacuation... but not our school?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 10:05:56 am

Quote from: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 10:01:12 am

"Freeze peach"? Are you twelve?

Lol.

I'm guessing iphone/ipad spellchecker screwup.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 10:10:17 am

Quote from: miauw62 on March 22, 2016, 10:05:33 am

Biggest commercial belgian tv channel is still reporting the dead count as 11 or maybe 14.

Nvm, that's airport only.

Can't say much. Heard it in school, apparently every other school was locked down pending evacuation... but not our school?

All schools have been ordered to keep all children inside. So go back inside.
All businesses have been ordered to keep their staff inside too. Courthouses have closed down, big shopping malls have closed down. People are asked to not go on the street. (Which might be wise, an EU parliamentary member reported seeing snipers on the roofs of Brussels everywhere she could look to from the EU building. You don't want to be mistaken for a target.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 10:11:16 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 10:05:56 am

Quote from: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 10:01:12 am

"Freeze peach"? Are you twelve?

Lol.

I'm guessing iphone/ipad spellchecker screwup.

It's a shitty meme from neo-Marxists on reddit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 22, 2016, 10:16:55 am

In this thread we're above shitposting or memes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am

Woo.
First time i'm happy about living in the racist eastern Europe. At least muslims give this place a wide berth (most anyway).
Now i'm starting to wonder how long till people get tired of this and start organizing lynch mobs following a "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" mindset.
A kristallnacht 2.0 of sorts.

With the amount of shit happening lately i'm surprised it's taking so long for mass reactionary violence to start.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 10:32:32 am

The explosives used in the Paris attacks, and possibly again today, worry intelligence services. They point to a highly organized existing network of IS fighters in Europe, which have a bomb factory run by expert bomb makers.
To make the explosive, expert chemical knowledge, and a small compound with professional equipment are required. Intelligence efforts so far have been unable to locate such a lab.

TATP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide)) was first (planned to be) used by IS in 2014, when police found 3 red bull cans filled with TATP in the appartment of IS-fighter Ibrahim Boudina, when he was arrested.
The bombvests found in Paris, and trace evidence from the bataclan attack, and the attacks at restaurants in Paris also concluded TATP was used.

The switch to this explosive worries intelligence agencies mostly, because the ingredients are easy to acquire undetected: It requires aceton (nail polish remover) and bleach. One day shopping past a few pharmacy stores, as to not raise suspicion by quantity bought at once, is enough to make another Paris happen.
That, plus it's undetectable by most common explosive detection devices, because it lacks nitrogen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 10:34:01 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am

Woo.
First time i'm happy about living in the racist eastern Europe. At least muslims give this place a wide berth (most anyway).
Now i'm starting to wonder how long till people get tired of this and start organizing lynch mobs following a "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" mindset.
A kristallnacht 2.0 of sorts.

With the amount of shit happening lately i'm surprised it's taking so long for mass reactionary violence to start.

Mob mentality doesn't work that way.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a more advanced purge of Molenbeek with door by door searching of everywhere after this.

Also, RIP schengen.

Edit: Also, from the Politico Euro editions liveblog, sounds like this might accelerate a Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 10:42:25 am

Quote from: penguinofhonor on March 22, 2016, 10:16:55 am

In this thread we're above shitposting or memes.

Ooh, that actually sounds kind of pleasant. The ameripol thread is something like 75% shitposting.

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am

"Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" mindset.

Except you can easily disprove that simply by naming Breivik, or if you want to keep going, by rattling off a litany of white non-muslim american terrorists, like Dylan Roof (the racist kid who shot up the AME church), the nutjob who shot up the abortion clinic recently-ish, the Dark Knight theatre shooter, practically every US school shooter ever, everyone who ever assassinated a US president, and so on...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 10:52:54 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 10:42:25 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am

"Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" mindset.

Except you can easily disprove that simply by naming Breivik, or if you want to keep going, by rattling off a litany of white non-muslim american terrorists, like Dylan Roof (the racist kid who shot up the AME church), the nutjob who shot up the abortion clinic recently-ish, the Dark Knight theatre shooter, practically every US school shooter ever, everyone who ever assassinated a US president, and so on...

That's an extremely broad definition of terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 10:55:24 am

Even if you use a narrow definition, Breivik would remain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 22, 2016, 10:56:25 am

Not to mention, besides breivik, American. At least mention the ETA, IRA, or the Red Front, man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 10:57:38 am

It fits the FBI definition and the Department of Defense's Definition to be honest.

Quote from: DoD

the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

Quote from: FBI

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 11:06:06 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 10:34:01 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am

Woo.
First time i'm happy about living in the racist eastern Europe. At least muslims give this place a wide berth (most anyway).
Now i'm starting to wonder how long till people get tired of this and start organizing lynch mobs following a "Not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims" mindset.
A kristallnacht 2.0 of sorts.

With the amount of shit happening lately i'm surprised it's taking so long for mass reactionary violence to start.

Mob mentality doesn't work that way.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a more advanced purge of Molenbeek with door by door searching of everywhere after this.

Also, RIP schengen.

Edit: Also, from the Politico Euro editions liveblog, sounds like this might accelerate a Brexit.

The schengen death could be potentially avoided if EU employs intrusive USA style racial/religious profiling.
Also what good the brexit will do here? GB is already full of muslims.

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 10:42:25 am

Except you can easily disprove that simply by naming Breivik, or if you want to keep going, by rattling off a litany of white non-muslim american terrorists, like Dylan Roof (the racist kid who shot up the AME church), the nutjob who shot up the abortion clinic recently-ish, the Dark Knight theatre shooter, practically every US school shooter ever, everyone who ever assassinated a US president, and so on...

It was an example of how an angry crowd would see things not a scientific fact.
But anyway Breivik was a rabid right winger putting him in direct opposition to letting any muslims in. His methods were just as cruel but working in the opposite direction since he believed that he was fighting against the left wing that in his eyes ruined Europe.

Funny how most of your examples were from USA.

USA you see is a very special place where every idiot who's 18 can get a shotgun thanks to the retardedly lax gun laws.
It's one thing when an angsty teen can just grab his dads handgun and kill several of his classmates and another when guns are only available via convoluted if not straight up illegal means.
Most would be european shooters just give up because they can't get a hold of a firearm before they cool down and realize they would be doing something stupid and waste their life.
And those who pull through (like Breivik) are rare and far in between.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 22, 2016, 11:18:33 am

Yeah - a shooting in the US is just another murder. In the UK, it's regional or even national news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 12:05:21 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 11:06:06 am

USA you see is a very special place where every idiot who's 18 can get a shotgun thanks to the retardedly lax gun laws.

One of these is fake, the rest are actual views. You can probably guess which one:
"If you ban guns only criminals will have them, and then how will folks defend themselves and their family against criminals with guns?"
"Even restricting gun ownership is a violation of the second amendment!"
"These 'assault weapon' bans are stupid. All they do is ban having several cosmetic features on the same gun associated with 'assault weapons', like, for example, a pistol grip and a folding stock."
"Obama and the democrats keep complaining about the 'gun show loophole', but I watched a video that proved that nobody at a gun show will sell you a gun without a background check, so why do they keep lying about it?"
"They may take our lives, but they will never take our bear arms!"

(Generally from white people, since the impression I get is that cops are much more trigger-happy with black people when they think they might have a gun, regardless of the second amendment giving them the same right to bear arms.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 12:22:14 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 12:05:21 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 22, 2016, 11:06:06 am

USA you see is a very special place where every idiot who's 18 can get a shotgun thanks to the retardedly lax gun laws.

One of these is fake, the rest are actual views. You can probably guess which one:
"If you ban guns only criminals will have them, and then how will folks defend themselves and their family against criminals with guns?"
"Even restricting gun ownership is a violation of the second amendment!"
"These 'assault weapon' bans are stupid. All they do is ban having several cosmetic features on the same gun associated with 'assault weapons', like, for example, a pistol grip and a folding stock."
"Obama and the democrats keep complaining about the 'gun show loophole', but I watched a video that proved that nobody at a gun show will sell you a gun without a background check, so why do they keep lying about it?"
"They may take our lives, but they will never take our bear arms!"

(Generally from white people, since the impression I get is that cops are much more trigger-happy with black people when they think they might have a gun, regardless of the second amendment giving them the same right to bear arms.)

There is only one fact here. Europe has an incomparably lower number of shootings because guns are not available to the general populace.
And with guns being hard to get only criminals with some good ties get to have a pistol while the average alley mugger will have a knife at best.

Of course you can't just take the guns from Americans and watch them cry wolf because firearms are too widespread for that to work and mandating that would be political suicide (and an instant win for whoever promises to give the boomsticks back first) on the next elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2016, 12:22:21 pm

This is getting too retarded I think I'm going to wait this out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 12:29:11 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2016, 12:22:21 pm

This is getting too retarded I think I'm going to wait this out

I never expected to see this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 22, 2016, 12:29:27 pm

The problem I don't get with guns is that, as I under Polish law you can own replicas of front loading guns from like before 1900s or something, which means you can own some old revolvers. While reloading them is horrible, if I positively, objectively wanted to shoot up school I could just buy half a dozen of them and then go shoot people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 22, 2016, 12:36:19 pm

Is this a fitting day to discuss gun control laws?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 12:36:25 pm

Please refrain from polluting the EU thread with 2nd amendment gunpowder residue.

In other news:
The Ukrainian pilot Nadezjda Savtsjenko has been sentenced to 22 years imprisonment for the murder of two journalists, by the Russian federal court. According to the prosecutor, she was part of a unit that shelled civilians with mortars in june 2014.

Savtsjenko herself has always claimed to be innocent. She says she has been kidnapped by pro-Russian rebels and smuggled into Russia to be put on political trial (ironically, the Russian prosecution is also charging her for illegally entering Russia).
According to her, it is impossible for her to have taken part in the shelling of the civilians, because at the time of the shelling, she was already in captivity of the rebels.

Ever since she has been arrested, she has gone on several hunger strikes, of which she managed to endure one strike for nearly 80 days. She has grown to be a national hero in Ukraine, and she has been chosen as a member of parliament for the party of former prime-minister Julia Timosjenko.
During the verdict, she interrupted the judges and started singing the Ukrainian national anthem. Several people in the audience joined in. The court was dismissed for a while to restore order.

Ukraine's president Porosjenko has called Putin to offer an exchange of two Russian prisoners of war in exchange for the pilot. According to Porosjenko, Putin has promised him earlier that the pilot can return to Ukraine when the trial is over.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 22, 2016, 12:42:41 pm

/me runs through the euro thread buck naked but for a cowboy hat, "yee-haw"ing and firing revolvers and shotguns into the air.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 12:52:50 pm

ISIS unsurprisingly claim responsability for the attack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 12:56:12 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 22, 2016, 12:29:27 pm

The problem I don't get with guns is that, as I under Polish law you can own replicas of front loading guns from like before 1900s or something, which means you can own some old revolvers. While reloading them is horrible, if I positively, objectively wanted to shoot up school I could just buy half a dozen of them and then go shoot people.

There's a huge difference between carrying 6 bulky front-loading guns around and trying to do a massacre vs a single auto or semi-auto pistol or rifle. The Colorado Joker shooter killed 12 and injured another 70. You'd need at least 82 front-loading guns to replicate that.

If you try to do a mass shooting with single-shot front loading antiques, well I sort of doubt their accuracy, and also if you miss, you're kinda screwed since you now have to drop that weapon and get the next one ready before the other guys rush you (which they will). You'd have more success just with a large knife.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 01:03:27 pm

Quote from: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 12:56:12 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 22, 2016, 12:29:27 pm

The problem I don't get with guns is that, as I under Polish law you can own replicas of front loading guns from like before 1900s or something, which means you can own some old revolvers. While reloading them is horrible, if I positively, objectively wanted to shoot up school I could just buy half a dozen of them and then go shoot people.

There's a huge difference between carrying 6 bulky front-loading guns around and trying to do a massacre vs a single auto or semi-auto pistol or rifle. The Colorado Joker shooter killed 12 and injured another 70. You'd need at least 82 front-loading guns to replicate that.

If you try to do a mass shooting with single-shot front loading antiques, well I sort of doubt their accuracy, and also if you miss, you're kinda screwed since you now have to drop that weapon and get the next one ready before the other guys rush you (which they will). You'd have more success just with a large knife.

He's talking about revolvers, you know, Wild West, six-shooters....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 01:17:25 pm

Plus if it had removable cylinders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858), then the shooter would only need one gun, and many pre-loaded cylinders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 22, 2016, 01:29:04 pm

Or a speedloader. Lotta options here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 01:30:08 pm

Even then, the shooter would still have to take time to reload the cylinder.

I think Kot's origional point, whatever it was, got lost, not sure what point he was trying to make, other than that guns are easy to get in the US.

Quote from: Baffler on March 22, 2016, 01:29:04 pm

Or a speedloader. Lotta options here.

I don't think an antique would have a speedloader? Whatever that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: iceball3 on March 22, 2016, 01:47:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 01:30:08 pm

Even then, the shooter would still have to take time to reload the cylinder.

I think Kot's origional point, whatever it was, got lost, not sure what point he was trying to make, other than that guns are easy to get in the US.

Quote from: Baffler on March 22, 2016, 01:29:04 pm

Or a speedloader. Lotta options here.

I don't think an antique would have a speedloader? Whatever that is.

(http://www.pistoleer.com/jetloader/pics/JLF.jpg)
The speedloader would just have to be made for it, need not be made with it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 02:49:38 pm

Antique revolvers are black-powder based. Fastloaders wont work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 03:05:50 pm

Black powder metallic cartridges were a thing for decades. Case in point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley

Pre-1900, of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 03:09:08 pm

Some front-loading revolvers had removable cylinders, so you could theoretically carry extra cylinders and swap them out. But I still imagine that would be fiddly and make you extremely vulnerable while swapping cylinders out. Reloading in a battle is one thing, whereas reloading when it's you by yourself vs a room full of people is another.

Also, front loading revolvers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver#Front_loading) were prone to jamming if you didn't flick the gun up and hit the hammer between shots, because they were loaded separately with powder, ball and percussion cap. The debris would stay in the mechanism if you didn't shake it out. And the chambers were also prone to set each other on fire, causing a misfire of all chambers. So, it's not going to be like "bang-bang-bang" moving from one target to the next, they have an opening when you cock the barrel up in the air, if you know what you're doing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 22, 2016, 03:10:18 pm

It's okay to own a gun (without license) in Poland (so I wasn't talking about US) unless it has cartridges. Technically you could convert your antique revolver to use cased cartridges but then that's illegal and cartridges aren't that easy to come by anyway. So yeah, speed loaders are no-go, though... spare cylinders are okay.
As in, this is okay. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqLL2xuSQs) And you can carry shittons of those cylinders. Right, the gun is fucking antique but I am pretty sure the bullets kill as well as the non-antique ones... and the guns are actually way more dangerous to the shooter (we're now assuming the shooter is a nice guy and doesn't want to shoot up a school) than the modern ones, considering you have to load them yourself and if you screw up the gun can explode in your hand, so...

EDIT:

Quote from: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 03:09:08 pm

Also, front loading revolvers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver#Front_loading) were prone to jamming if you didn't flick the gun up and hit the hammer between shots

That's what you're basically doing anyway, due to recoil and the fact that you need to pull the hammer back to shoot again anyway.

Quote from: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 03:09:08 pm

And the chambers were also prone to set each other on fire, causing a misfire of all chambers.

Quote from: wikipediuh

This could be prevented by sealing the chambers with cotton, wax, or grease.

If you're going to use spare cylinders you're proably going to use something like that anyway. It's not like it would take that much longer.

Quote from: Reelya on March 22, 2016, 03:09:08 pm

So, it's not going to be like "bang-bang-bang" moving from one target to the next, they have an opening when you cock the barrel up in the air, if you know what you're doing.

It's going to be "bang-bang-bang" enough that even with the "opening", they won't be able to do anything. I mean, what do you expect people to do, if they proably have never seen a working gun before?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:29:37 pm

I don't really know the details of how things are applied in the UK, but in Belgium Sharia4Belgium's Fouad Belkacem is now serving a 12-years prison sentence after his organization was deemed terrorist, despite never doing much more than agitprop. In France, people got jailed for little more than shouting "Urray for the Charlie Hebdo terrorists" while drunk, they even briefly detained a 8-years old at some point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 03:36:08 pm

The bombs in Brussles were packed with nails, to maximize damage.
The miltary hospital of Neder-Over Heembeek released an x-ray of a victim that's currently being treated there, to show the size of the nails used. The nail in the photo below narrowly missed the victim's heart.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/nailbomb_zpsamz1l7gs.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/nailbomb_zpsamz1l7gs.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 03:44:20 pm

They also found someplace with a nail bomb, bomb making supplies, and an Isis flag during the raids earlier.

Kind of sounds like Belgium has some major work to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 22, 2016, 03:51:03 pm

"his ego was bruised", when translated into "they insulted his honor", was a valid casus belli just a few hundred years ago, so I don't see what's so hard to get about it. "Insults are washed away with blood" and other stuff like that, you know?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 22, 2016, 03:51:25 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 22, 2016, 03:45:47 pm

These attacks, more than anything, infuriate me. Not towards the perpetrators any more than would be expected, but the fact that I can't understand their logic at all. I really, REALLY want to know just how they seem to think this is all justifiable? I know that people will say 'It's because they were told if they do this then they go and get their virgins' and so on, but I honest to God still can't understand *that* mindset. I mean, they're basically saying 'I worship an omnicidal maniac of a god that wants me to kill people because his ego was bruised' and I really just... can't get that.

*shrug* Why was heresy or blasphemy punishable by being burnt at the stake for centuries? Same logic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:51:36 pm

Easy. Crusaders are massacring muslims children and women in Syria with their bombing campaigns, you got to avenge them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 22, 2016, 03:56:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:51:36 pm

Easy. Crusaders are massacring muslims children and women in Syria with their bombing campaigns, you got to avenge them.

Along with a vaguely logical notion of "if we kill enough of them, they'll leave the Middle East". Despite that not having worked for a very long time now. Unfortunately, the conclusion drawn by extremists is "we just haven't killed hard enough yet" (much like conservatives in the US who, despite losing, think the answer is to double-down on the crazy).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 03:56:44 pm

Worth noting that as far as terrorist attacks go, they are becoming less effective as years pass. Compare the 3000 from 11-S to the 300 to the Madrid bombings a couple of years later, and to the 30something in this one.

I mention this because I think it's important to bear in mind that terrorists are *not* getting stronger, and things are not getting easier for them. These attacks are meant to cause panic. If we keep our cool we defeat their purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 04:01:48 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 03:56:44 pm

Worth noting that as far as terrorist attacks go, they are becoming less effective as years pass. Compare the 3000 from 11-S to the 300 to the Madrid bombings a couple of years later, and to the 30something in this one.

I mention this because I think it's important to bear in mind that terrorists are *not* getting stronger, and things are not getting easier for them. These attacks are meant to cause panic. If we keep our cool we defeat their purpose.

Well, in the West at least. But yeah, big networks mounting international attacks like AQ in 2001 simply don't exist anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 22, 2016, 04:03:35 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 22, 2016, 03:57:31 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 22, 2016, 03:51:03 pm

"his ego was bruised", when translated into "they insulted his honor", was a valid casus belli just a few hundred years ago, so I don't see what's so hard to get about it. "Insults are washed away with blood" and other stuff like that, you know?

I don't understand WHY people see the need to do it, though. If someone insulted *my* honour I'd not go and stab them in the gut, or shoot them or something similar.

Also, just because it was the case a few hundred years ago doesn't mean I'll understand it now. It's not a case of 'I don't understand the definition' or anything, it's just the kind of moral impetus to go and do this that I really, REALLY do not get.

Well that's because you've been taught as a modern civilized person to not respond to insults with physical harm. People who have been trained otherwise, on the other hand, may consider such behaviour as inconceivable dishonour and "worse than death".

Thankfully for us, such behaviour is evolutionary disadvantageous and so people who are stuck with these outdated believes are ultimately doomed to die to civilized world's superior firepower, precision and reach. And that's good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 04:07:46 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 22, 2016, 03:57:31 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 22, 2016, 03:51:03 pm

"his ego was bruised", when translated into "they insulted his honor", was a valid casus belli just a few hundred years ago, so I don't see what's so hard to get about it. "Insults are washed away with blood" and other stuff like that, you know?

I don't understand WHY people see the need to do it, though. If someone insulted *my* honour I'd not go and stab them in the gut, or shoot them or something similar.

Also, just because it was the case a few hundred years ago doesn't mean I'll understand it now. It's not a case of 'I don't understand the definition' or anything, it's just the kind of moral impetus to go and do this that I really, REALLY do not get.

Maybe the same reason rebels might commit sabotage attacks to sap the strength of an occupying force?

I don't really get it either other than general vague hatred at the west and wanting the west and the US to get out of MidEast affairs. .

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miauw62 on March 22, 2016, 04:16:47 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 03:56:44 pm

Worth noting that as far as terrorist attacks go, they are becoming less effective as years pass. Compare the 3000 from 11-S to the 300 to the Madrid bombings a couple of years later, and to the 30something in this one.

I mention this because I think it's important to bear in mind that terrorists are *not* getting stronger, and things are not getting easier for them. These attacks are meant to cause panic. If we keep our cool we defeat their purpose.

if people are going to keep reacting to them the same way they've always reacted to them, aren't terrorists just as successful as they were before?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 04:22:50 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on March 22, 2016, 04:16:47 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 03:56:44 pm

Worth noting that as far as terrorist attacks go, they are becoming less effective as years pass. Compare the 3000 from 11-S to the 300 to the Madrid bombings a couple of years later, and to the 30something in this one.

I mention this because I think it's important to bear in mind that terrorists are *not* getting stronger, and things are not getting easier for them. These attacks are meant to cause panic. If we keep our cool we defeat their purpose.

if people are going to keep reacting to them the same way they've always reacted to them, aren't terrorists just as successful as they were before?

The US has steadfastly refused to send a ground army to fulfill ISIS's "prophecies," so now ISIS has to try to provoke someone else into playing Rome, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 04:27:51 pm

I'm pretty sure that's what they ultimately had wanted for some time. At the moment, most the forces that are fighting them in a ground war are Muslim forces. But at the same time, they launched two other attacks recently, one in Egypt and the Other in Turkey, so at the same time would not bet on that being a goal for them even if I believe it is so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 22, 2016, 04:35:14 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2016, 03:56:44 pm

Worth noting that as far as terrorist attacks go, they are becoming less effective as years pass. Compare the 3000 from 11-S to the 300 to the Madrid bombings a couple of years later, and to the 30something in this one.

I mention this because I think it's important to bear in mind that terrorists are *not* getting stronger, and things are not getting easier for them. These attacks are meant to cause panic. If we keep our cool we defeat their purpose.

Terrorists have become more deadly even if they don't do it through a single isolated attack, plus, you forgot to mention Paris and the rest of the Word outside the West. oh, we also forgot to mention the Russian airline terror attack, which killed more people than in Madrid.

Terrorists also understand that they don't need to pull off an expensive and extremely complicated 9/11 to disrupt the West when they can achieve good results by simply walking through the incompetent European security (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html) to completely shut down the capital of the European Union. plus, they can also easily disrupt the West while making a profit out of it by running people smuggling networks onto Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2016, 04:35:23 pm

Even though when comparing the casualty rates of 9/11 to Madrid to London to Paris to Brussels, it might look like casualties are getting less, islamist terrorist victims worldwide have increased, even very rapidly since the Syrian war started in 2011.

80% of all victims from islamist terrorism are muslims from Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Nigeria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 07:32:58 pm

As usual, certain reddit moderators are banning almost every single comment that they disagree with or don't like, preventing any real discussion of the recent events.

http://archive.is/vA4wp

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2016, 07:37:56 pm

Go to 4chan? vOv

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 22, 2016, 07:39:42 pm

What do gun laws have to do with a fucking tragedy caused by terrorism?
Did gun control get so damm engraved in your current generations that somehow you don't need a way to defend yourself?
Sheesh no wonder my grandparents decided to never go back to Europe after world war two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2016, 07:47:07 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on March 22, 2016, 07:32:58 pm

As usual, certain reddit moderators are banning almost every single comment that they disagree with or don't like, preventing any real discussion of the recent events.

http://archive.is/vA4wp

What does that have to do with the EuroPol thread?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2016, 08:13:18 pm

Why is Europe so retarded

I can't even

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 22, 2016, 08:27:46 pm

I'm as confused as you.
Its like a Klein bottle of Bullshit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 22, 2016, 08:32:41 pm

Edit: Premise ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 23, 2016, 02:06:39 am

Quote from: RedKing on March 22, 2016, 03:56:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 22, 2016, 03:51:36 pm

Easy. Crusaders are massacring muslims children and women in Syria with their bombing campaigns, you got to avenge them.

Along with a vaguely logical notion of "if we kill enough of them, they'll leave the Middle East". Despite that not having worked for a very long time now. Unfortunately, the conclusion drawn by extremists is "we just haven't killed hard enough yet" (much like conservatives in the US who, despite losing, think the answer is to double-down on the crazy).

Everything is very simple - all non-believers (including "wrong" Muslims) must die. Allah likes when you kill them.

There are no other motivation and no other goals. Motivation of smarter guys, the ones who organize everything and able to bypass security services, is more interesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 08:49:35 am

Aye, their sect must remove kaffir

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 22, 2016, 07:39:42 pm

What do gun laws have to do with a fucking tragedy caused by terrorism?
Did gun control get so damm engraved in your current generations that somehow you don't need a way to defend yourself?
Sheesh no wonder my grandparents decided to never go back to Europe after world war two.

Because someone compared terrorism to mass shootings and said they are essentially the same thing... when they are not.
Mass shootings are caused by lax gun control where mentally unstable individuals get access to guns and decide to go out with a bang taking some more successful people with them.
Terrorism is doing something with a planned impact on religion, culture or politics and having loads of guns strewn around just makes those easier to pull off.

Not to say that arming your citizens to the teeth has no merits like that texan debacle with Mohammad drawing on exposition attracting 2 armed muslims wanting to shoot the place up but ended up with more then they can chew from the armed texan observers.
In the end 1 security guard was wounded and both attackers lost their lives.
Obviously an attack like that would have a higher bodycount in the EU... but chances are that attack wouldn't even happen because getting guns is that much harder.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2016, 08:13:18 pm

Why is Europe so retarded

I can't even

It's a mix of an overall better organized police that's not worthless unless and not being a place where there are more guns than citizens.
Meaning that not every lowlife thug can buy or steal a second hand gun.
So far it works pretty well. The EU population would be armed if people didn't feel safe and clamored for access to guns but the way things are most people simply do not feel the need.

On the other side of the spectrum you have the US where most people are armed and see owning a personal firearm as common sense despite most of them don't really see any practical lifesaving/taking use because even the US is not a post apocalyptic wasteland filled with bandits, raiders and feral ghouls (drug junkies).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 11:05:24 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 22, 2016, 07:39:42 pm

What do gun laws have to do with a fucking tragedy caused by terrorism?
Did gun control get so damm engraved in your current generations that somehow you don't need a way to defend yourself?
Sheesh no wonder my grandparents decided to never go back to Europe after world war two.

Because someone compared terrorism to mass shootings and said they are essentially the same thing... when they are not.
Mass shootings are caused by lax gun control where mentally unstable individuals get access to guns and decide to go out with a bang taking some more successful people with them.
Terrorism is doing something with a planned impact on religion, culture or politics and having loads of guns strewn around just makes those easier to pull off.

Not to say that arming your citizens to the teeth has no merits like that texan debacle with Mohammad drawing on exposition attracting 2 armed muslims wanting to shoot the place up but ended up with more then they can chew from the armed texan observers.
In the end 1 security guard was wounded and both attackers lost their lives.
Obviously an attack like that would have a higher bodycount in the EU... but chances are that attack wouldn't even happen because getting guns is that much harder.

Um, it was the security guards and police that killed the attackers, not random armed civillians, just correcting you.

Also, given how tight security was at that exposition, you probably couldn't take a gun inside there anyway. Aside from the security people and police.

Still, Texas and all that....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 11:22:23 am

(Every info in this post is from  this article (http://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_deux-kamikazes-formellement-identifies-le-testament-de-l-un-d-eux-retrouve?id=9249575) of the Belgian public broadcaster)

Two of the terrorists have been identified, two brothers, Ibrahim and Khalid al Bakraoui. respectively the kamikazes at the airport and metro station. A third man that had been seen dropping another explosive charge and then leaving the airport is still unidentified. They earlier said they were looking for three people at the airport, so it's not entirely clear why they're only looking for two now.

A raid on a flat they used reveal 15 kg of TATP as well as 150l of acetone and 30 of H2O2 as well as nails and screws. A laptop containing a testament of Ibrahim was found in a garbage bin close to the flat, saying he was feeling tracked and felt he had to do something before finishing his life in prison. His pisture had been sent to all the police forces of Belgium after a raid on a flat last week that ended with two islamists dead aftera  shootout with the police.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 23, 2016, 11:28:29 am

Quote

Two of the terrorists have been identified, two brothers, Ibrahim and Khalid al Bakraoui. respectively the kamikazes at the airport and metro station. A third man that had been seen dropping another explosive charge and then leaving the airport is still unidentified. They earlier said they were looking for three people at the airport, so it's not entirely clear why they're only looking for two now.

Are they Belgian citizens?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 11:29:05 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 11:05:24 am

Um, it was the security guards and police that killed the attackers, not random armed civillians, just correcting you.

Also, given how tight security was at that exposition, you probably couldn't take a gun inside there anyway. Aside from the security people and police.

Still, Texas and all that....

Still the people who went there knew what to do under fire at least.
And yeah i guess i didn't know the details. All i knew that only one human got wounded. A security guard i think.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 11:39:23 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 23, 2016, 11:28:29 am

Quote

Two of the terrorists have been identified, two brothers, Ibrahim and Khalid al Bakraoui. respectively the kamikazes at the airport and metro station. A third man that had been seen dropping another explosive charge and then leaving the airport is still unidentified. They earlier said they were looking for three people at the airport, so it's not entirely clear why they're only looking for two now.

Are they Belgian citizens?

Both born and bred in Brussels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 23, 2016, 11:46:56 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

On the other side of the spectrum you have the US where most people are armed

Just have to correct this, because it's a common assumption around the world. While there ARE enough firearms owned in the US to arm every single man, woman and child, that's not how they're actually distributed. Overall, gun ownership is around 32%, so about 2/3 of Americans are not armed. Furthermore, many of those who do own a gun do not walk around with it on their person at all times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2016, 11:52:51 am

Sultan Erdogan has blamed Belgian authorities for Brussels. One of the suicide bombers was arrested in Turkey last june, and extradited to the Belgian authorities, which apparently let him walk free. Erdogan says Belgium disregarded the warnings their intelligence gave to the Belgian intelligence.

Also, casualties might still rise. Yesterday, there were no Dutch casualties reported except for one light injury. Today, there are 3 Dutch people missing that were at the airport at the time of the explosion. Two of them were on the phone with their parents. Last thing they heard was a blast and the phone going dead. I hope they didn't get blasted into a pulp.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 12:12:15 pm

The thrid suspect is apparently called Najim Laachraoui, another Belgian. He was known to have been to Syria, and appears in a current court proceeding under a nom de guerre. He was also apparently arrested at the Austro-Hungarian border but escaped using a fake ID.

I'm going to agree with Erdogan here, our security service have shown themselves to sucks. Abdeslam managed to hide for over three months in the same part of Brussels. Those other guys have been running circles around our police. Ibrahim was actually on the run from parole violation.

Not that it a surprise. The jokes about the Belgian state being dysfunctional hide a sad truth. Years of infighting between Flemish and Walloons and attempt to devolve powers from the central state at all costs have left the thing a mess. For exemple, it is communities that are responsible for monitoring prisoners on parole wearing electronic bracelets, despite the fact that they have otherwise no police or judicial power. Paying soldiers to stand at street corners looks good, but is expensive and useless. Our police is so white that it'd make Ferguson PD look like a rainbow nation, which makes it harder to infiltrate jihadis cells.

Also: American injured in the Boston Marathon victim injured at Zaventem airport (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-brussels-boston-bombing-survivor-20160323-story.html). God hates Mormon  :P.

Edit: Actually, he was a block away from the Boston bomb. Fuck those headlines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:16:09 pm

The fact that these humanoids got spawned in Belgium and then grew there does not mean they are REAL Belgians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 12:20:51 pm

Of course. As far as the police know, they haven't surrendered to Germany once.

I'm seriously not sure what you're trying to say here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 12:22:46 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

It's a mix of an overall better organized police that's not worthless unless and not being a place where there are more guns than citizens.
Meaning that not every lowlife thug can buy or steal a second hand gun.
So far it works pretty well. The EU population would be armed if people didn't feel safe and clamored for access to guns but the way things are most people simply do not feel the need.

Do you think I'm talking about guns? No, Europe is retarded, and it's not because of guns

Yuros want to die

I can think of no other explanation other than a subconscious deathwish and self-loathing held by millions of yuropoors who have zero ability to assess danger

fml it was common news they were coming back home in 2013, yet people laughed at this notion as a conspiracy even when shown clear evidence they were already killing yuros and already had returned home

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

they learn nothing except privilege checking

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:16:09 pm

The fact that these humanoids got spawned in Belgium and then grew there does not mean they are REAL Belgians.

Real Belgians are a social construct and don't exist

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:24:51 pm

Stop calling them like they are from your countries.
Since they also refuse to behave,refuse to educate their  children,hell they so not even obey your laws they are in no way Europeans, just Arabs,pashtuns and such living in Europe.
Can't say eunuch without saying EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 12:24:51 pm

Who laughed at this notion? What to do with returning Jihadis has been discussed ever since they started to return.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:37:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 12:22:46 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

It's a mix of an overall better organized police that's not worthless unless and not being a place where there are more guns than citizens.
Meaning that not every lowlife thug can buy or steal a second hand gun.
So far it works pretty well. The EU population would be armed if people didn't feel safe and clamored for access to guns but the way things are most people simply do not feel the need.

Do you think I'm talking about guns? No, Europe is retarded, and it's not because of guns

Yuros want to die

I can think of no other explanation other than a subconscious deathwish and self-loathing held by millions of yuropoors who have zero ability to assess danger

fml it was common news they were coming back home in 2013, yet people laughed at this notion as a conspiracy even when shown clear evidence they were already killing yuros and already had returned home

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

they learn nothing except privilege checking

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:16:09 pm

The fact that these humanoids got spawned in Belgium and then grew there does not mean they are REAL Belgians.

Real Belgians are a social construct and don't exist

Decades of nanny States, gun control, and welfare mutated them into the spineless hedonistic cowards they are today.
Seriously my family members of my age that remained there are pathetic, frail both physically and mentally.
While the ones that came to the US are gun collecting giants.
The ones at South America are hardened and hard working.
The European guys are just welfare leeches and drunk slackers.

Good,as I can refer to them as EUloi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 23, 2016, 12:51:51 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 12:22:46 pm

zero ability to assess danger

Ability to assess danger? If we do that objectively, then we would allocate less resources to terrorism, and more resources to fighting the leading causes of death. Terrorism is not a leading cause of death and injury. If we're being rational which is what assessing danger is about, we'd work out the cost-benefit analysis of anti-terror measures. Spending millions to save 1 life is not a good trade-off, because you can spend those millions on something else entirely that will save more lives. So you work out a cost-effective amount of anti-terror spending. Sure some people will still die in occasional attacks, but you saved more lives somewhere else, by being rational and not emotional. That's how you do this logically. But we're not even talking millions here, we're actually talking billions of Euros in terror defense spending against a threat that at most kills a handful of people.

Similarly, people who want legalized guns for self-defense are not rationally assessing danger: the UK has higher assault rates than the USA, but 1/5th the homicide rate. You'd expect the homicide rate to shoot up by a factor of 5 in UK if there was widespread gun availability. So, there would have to be a huge amount of terror attacks in the future in the UK, that just happened to be prevented by legalized guns, to make that equation come out ahead. And inevitably, some cases will happen where they stopped a Muslim guy with guns but had to let him go because carrying guns was now legal, and when he uses those guns in an attack they'll just shrug and say "we did everything we could".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 01:08:41 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 10:51:25 am

Mass shootings are caused by lax gun control where mentally unstable individuals get access to guns and decide to go out with a bang taking some more successful people with them.
Terrorism is doing something with a planned impact on religion, culture or politics and having loads of guns strewn around just makes those easier to pull off.

Dylan Roof wasn't mentally unstable. He was motivated by a belief in white supremacy, believed that black people were mentally inferior but "slick," and wanted to spark a civil war - certainly a planned impact on politics. He went into a historic black church, sat with a prayer group who welcomed him, and then killed them. His attack definitely had an impact on religion, culture, or politics.
Would you not call him a terrorist still? What about the San Bernardino shooters? If you call them terrorists, what differentiates them? If it's just that they were inspired by ISIS, consider: believing in an ideology which is abhorrent and incomprehensible to you does not make someone mentally unstable, and sticking them in that box just leaves you incapable of understanding and predicting the behavior of similar individuals in the future.

(I could name more, if you need more examples. I mean, on the one hand, naming them gives them notoriety, which some in the media says we should avoid so as to not encourage future mass-shooters who are motivated by that (while the rest of the media does it anyways), but on the other hand, you can't learn anything from the past by ignoring it)
(I'd name Breivik but you probably already consider him a terrorist)

P.S. I agree with Reelya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2016, 01:09:50 pm

Hmm, apparently there is confusion now whether Erdogan said he extradited the perpetrator to Belgium, or the Netherlands, june last year.
Dutch newspaper reports that the AFP press agency still says he said Belgium, but that Erdogan said he said the Netherlands, and that both Dutch and Belgian intelligence services received information.
It probably was Belgium though, why would a Belgian national be extradited to the Netherlands?

The Dutch ministry of Justice stated they will go try and find out if it's true what Erdogan says.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 01:17:20 pm

While I don't view the Belgians as lazy and drunk like xxseuzxx does, I do agree that Belgium has a really serious problem going on, I mean, the guy stayed there for three freaking months and apparently the Belgian intelligence services are incompetent as all hell. One US intel official even had choice words for the Belgian intel services: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html

But really, the problem with Belgium goes deeper than just incompetent intel services and lies in the broken government of Belgium.

Not sure if I saw some rumor or chatter (or maybe it was the usual talk) of France wanting to annex the Wallonian part of Belgium. Not that I'd advocate them doing it by force obviously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2016, 01:23:05 pm

I don't think the nationalist Flemish part of Belgians would object to that. They have wanted to get rid of the poorer Wallonia region for ages.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 01:27:27 pm

Just popped in to this thread to see what was going on here and get some international news links. But apparently it boils down to that I'm a coward, weakling, welfare leech, slacker, etc.

Neat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 01:33:41 pm

I'll die on a barricade before letting the French take over my country. Or well, at least not be happy about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 01:34:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 12:24:51 pm

Who laughed at this notion? What to do with returning Jihadis has been discussed ever since they started to return.

Old Europol thread

I will nab quotes if I'm bored enough and must

I'M ANGRY

ABOUT

QUOTES

Seriously when I brought this up people weren't arguing over what to do with them, they were arguing whether they existed and denied their existence even when they were clearly shown to already be here. This is beyond Ostrich in the sand, this is just strait up some Yuri denialist bullshit

Quote from: Reelya on March 23, 2016, 12:51:51 pm

Ability to assess danger? If we do that objectively, then we would allocate less resources to terrorism, and more resources to fighting the leading causes of death.

Hahaha this is what I'm talking about, zero ability to assess danger

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 01:08:41 pm

Dylan Roof wasn't mentally unstable. He was motivated by a belief in white supremacy, believed that black people were mentally inferior but "slick," and wanted to spark a civil war - certainly a planned impact on politics. He went into a historic black church, sat with a prayer group who welcomed him, and then killed them. His attack definitely had an impact on religion, culture, or politics.
Would you not call him a terrorist still? What about the San Bernardino shooters? If you call them terrorists, what differentiates them? If it's just that they were inspired by ISIS, consider: believing in an ideology which is abhorrent and incomprehensible to you does not make someone mentally unstable, and sticking them in that box just leaves you incapable of understanding and predicting the behavior of similar individuals in the future.

Yo consider your homosexual black murderer who killed two white people on live television in the hopes of sparking a race war

His motivations were the same, he was nonetheless completely batshit insane because he was insane. Sane people killing for ideology is different from insane people killing for ideology, because they are insane and do not understand what they are doing as someone normal deliberately doing so can
It's pretty much just a semantic thing since the overlap is real and you only really need to specify terrorism on practical grounds of fighting organized movements that want to inflict as much economic and political damage as possible upon the state as possible. Your psycho mass murder wants to kill loads of people because x, your terrorist wants to achieve x and will do whatever strategy seems likely to succeed in x and treats loads of people as acceptable targets to kill. Then there are also legal ramifications, as your mentally ill terrorist gets different treatment from just a plain terrorist, hence why the Russians wanted to determine whether the beheader of peace was mentally sound before proceeding to judicial shit

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 01:33:41 pm

I'll die on a barricade before letting the French take over my country. Or well, at least not be happy about it.

Lol it's not the French taking over your country (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 01:43:49 pm

That just supports my point - Mental stability or instability just has no relation to whether an act is a mass shooting or terrorism. (Were you trying to get me to argue against myself?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 01:44:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 01:34:30 pm

I think you're mixing up with people denying ISIS was infiltrating fighters in the refugees flows. Part of the argument was that ISIS don't need to do it, because it got plenty of European-born fighters with up to date passport. The recent attack by what look like three Belgians kind of support that point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 23, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

So what metric are we using exactly when deciding that some people are perfectly sane when they kill and others are insane?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 23, 2016, 01:52:58 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 01:17:20 pm

While I don't view the Belgians as lazy and drunk like xxseuzxx does, I do agree that Belgium has a really serious problem going on, I mean, the guy stayed there for three freaking months and apparently the Belgian intelligence services are incompetent as all hell. One US intel official even had choice words for the Belgian intel services: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html

But really, the problem with Belgium goes deeper than just incompetent intel services and lies in the broken government of Belgium.

Not sure if I saw some rumor or chatter (or maybe it was the usual talk) of France wanting to annex the Wallonian part of Belgium. Not that I'd advocate them doing it by force obviously.

Yeah, it goes deeper than that:

Quote

"We’re essentially talking with people who are—I’m just going to put it bluntly—children. They are not pro-active, they don’t know what’s going on. They’re in such denial. It’s such a frightening thing to admit their country is being taken over.”

I've got a question for you Europeans. were you relived to find out that these terrorists were born in Belgium or would it have been better if they were Refugees? does the fact they were born in Belgium has any implication on the question of accepting the Illegal Immigrants/Refugees?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 01:56:02 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2016, 01:48:07 pm

The old 'Remember Breivik' refrain rings rather hollow when the statistics point to 90%+ of these kind of attacks (scroll down to terrorist attacks) being jihadism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll) Don't forget to count Chechen separatism too, as there's definitely an overlap there.

Inb4 someone moans about using Wikipedia for a long list of easily individually-confirmable events (and probably posts a Salon article to refute me, kek).

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 12:37:34 pm

Good,as I can refer to them as EUloi.

That was actually pretty clever, nice.

How about you point to ACTUAL statistics, over half of those are from the last 20-30 years, there are very few listed beyond the 70's

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 02:00:19 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on March 23, 2016, 01:52:58 pm

were you relived to find out that these terrorists were born in Belgium

Wat. Why would we even be relieved that they were born in Belgium instead of being refugees?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 02:02:05 pm

Yeah, if they were refugees the solution would be easy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 23, 2016, 02:03:57 pm

https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/european-union-terrorism-situation-and-trend-report-2015 (https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/european-union-terrorism-situation-and-trend-report-2015)
There's a report on there, lemme go ahead and quote the relevant section here.

Quote

The number of attacks increased in 2014, contrary to the trend(2) in past years. A total of 201 failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks were reported by seven EU Member States, more than half of them by the UK. Overall, attacks specifically classified as separatist terrorism accounted for the largest proportion, followed by anarchist and left-wing attacks. France reported 50 separatist attacks, all of them in Corsica.

Two attacks were classified as religiously inspired. In one of these attacks, which occurred inside the Jewish Museum of Belgium in Brussels, the perpetrator used a semi-automatic rifle to kill four people. In addition to the four fatalities in Belgium, injuries as a result of terrorist activities were reported by France and Greece.

This is relevant to 2014, so it's still pretty recent. Page 8 of the report for reference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 23, 2016, 02:07:30 pm

I have seen pro refugee Europeans relish the fact that these were European born, so it's ok to accept refugees. so the more important question is whether the fact they were Belgian born has any implication on your stance toward accepting refugees?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 02:11:40 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on March 23, 2016, 02:07:30 pm

I have seen pro refugee Europeans relish the fact that these were European born, so it's ok to accept refugees. so the more important question is whether the fact they were Belgian born has any implication on your stance toward accepting refugees?

Goddamn, that's retarded. No, it has no implication on my personal stance on refugees. Whereas my stance used to be pessimistic with a cautiously optimistic side, my smile and optimism are pretty much gone by now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 02:15:55 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2016, 02:00:39 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 01:56:02 pm

How about you point to ACTUAL statistics, over half of those are from the last 20-30 years, there are very few listed beyond the 70's

Can you tell me a few terrorist attacks that have occurred since the 70's that aren't listed there? All the ones listed so far in this thread (Charleston Church, for example) seem to be listed.

Or have I misunderstood, and you mean before the 70's? In which case I'd say reaching back so far doesn't really help very much with informing us on the current state of the world.

Kind of helps to set a timeframe rather than point to the list which goes further back than the 1970's.

The lists here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism-related_lists are more comprehensive. Though they don't list the type like jihadism, you can infer them somewhat.

Heres a bunch from before 1970's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-state_terrorist_incidents

If you want to look in the 18th and 19th centuries, you'll have to dive into google.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 02:18:46 pm

Those numbers have the issue that a lot of things are covered under terrorisms. Many terrorists aren't trying to kill as many civilians as possible. That's why jihadis terrorism account for a tiny minority of terrorist acts in Europe, but a vast majority of casualties in the last ten years. Not before though, Europe used to have a LOT of terror victims, mostly separatists and left-wing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_4093_people_killed_by_terrorist_attacks_in_western_europe_since_1970_n.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on March 23, 2016, 02:39:35 pm

It's surprising how many fewer actual terrorism victims there are in the modern day compared with up to 1992.

What's the average European terrorism causalities per year? Like 20 people or something on average? This is what I'm talking about with actual risk assessment. Millions of Europeans die every year of other causes. The number of Americans killed by lightning strikes per year is 2x the Paris attacks. Maybe the government should invest in special anti-lightning hats?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 02:40:36 pm

Well, that's the Good Friday agreement and the end of the Troubles for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 02:47:52 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 01:17:20 pm

While I don't view the Belgians as lazy and drunk like xxseuzxx does, I do agree that Belgium has a really serious problem going on, I mean, the guy stayed there for three freaking months and apparently the Belgian intelligence services are incompetent as all hell. One US intel official even had choice words for the Belgian intel services: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/22/u-s-officials-bash-shitty-belgian-security-forces.html

But really, the problem with Belgium goes deeper than just incompetent intel services and lies in the broken government of Belgium.

Not sure if I saw some rumor or chatter (or maybe it was the usual talk) of France wanting to annex the Wallonian part of Belgium. Not that I'd advocate them doing it by force obviously.

the only people i refered to as drunks and lazy bums are the relatives of mine that stayed on austria and croatia.
the current ones near my age are the target of my words.
also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 02:52:07 pm

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 02:47:52 pm

also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

One of the Belgian Bay12ers could probably explain it best. From what I know, it's due to a split between the Walloonians (French-Belgians) and Flemish (Dutch-Belgians) which has been around for centuries. It's basically two countries in one.

I guess the closest possible US analogy would be right after the Civil War, but the divisions go far deeper than that because they speak different languages for one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 02:54:54 pm

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 02:47:52 pm

also i have been reading about the politics at Belgium and wtf is that about..

Belgian here, fuck if I even know anymore. The french part want their slice of pie, the flemish part wants their slice of pie, and the brussels part that speaks both languages also want some pie. To me it seems like they always just keep cutting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces and what's left is just a big mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2016, 02:58:59 pm

Before pies, it started with potatoes. That's how you got your pommes frites

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 03:00:57 pm

Brussels also has like 17 mayors from what I hear, one for each of it's neighborhoods and then theres the mayor of all of Brussels, if there is one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 03:02:19 pm

Man, I don't even bother trying to understand the brussels/wallons regions. I've got enough trouble figuring out how flanders works half of the time. Belgian politics/government is a mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 01:43:49 pm

That just supports my point - Mental stability or instability just has no relation to whether an act is a mass shooting or terrorism. (Were you trying to get me to argue against myself?)

No

I don't give a shit about who I'm talking to, none of us know who we are there's no value in being right or wrong all the time
If it looks like I'm agreeing with you it's probably because I agree with you

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 01:44:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 01:34:30 pm

I think you're mixing up with people denying ISIS was infiltrating fighters in the refugees flows. Part of the argument was that ISIS don't need to do it, because it got plenty of European-born fighters with up to date passport. The recent attack by what look like three Belgians kind of support that point.

This is the retarded shit I'm talking about, as if this is better

Even after Paris also proved otherwise about ISIS fighters returning in particular (not that it matters who it is in particular sneaking in) it all goes through one ear and out the next. They can literally brag to you about how they did it and you'll ignore it
you pl btw

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day
>belgians

Quote from: chaoticag on March 23, 2016, 01:45:01 pm

So what metric are we using exactly when deciding that some people are perfectly sane when they kill and others are insane?

Leave that to criminal psychiatrists and not layplebs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 03:57:01 pm

It looked like you were arguing aggressively, actually. But then everything you say either looks like that or like gibberish to me. No disrespect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 03:57:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day

Help me out here, what does "to guac" even mean?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 04:01:31 pm

Quote from: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 03:57:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day

Help me out here, what does "to guac" even mean?

Something with guacamole maybe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:07:49 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 03:57:01 pm

It looked like you were arguing aggressively, actually. But then everything you say either looks like that or like gibberish to me. No disrespect.

No worries
I suppose saying shit like shit makes it sound more aggressive, but I suppose as well that's not remiss in shit like this

Quote from: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 03:57:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day

Help me out here, what does "to guac" even mean?

See: Sweden + guac bowls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 04:11:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:07:49 pm

See: Sweden + guac bowls

All I'm getting from google is Jeb Bush selling 75$ guac bowls on his campaign stores. I'm sorry, my english isn't the best, so I'm probably missing something fairly obvious here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 04:14:11 pm

Quote from: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 04:11:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:07:49 pm

See: Sweden + guac bowls

All I'm getting from google is Jeb Bush selling 75$ guac bowls on his campaign stores. I'm sorry, my english isn't the best, so I'm probably missing something fairly obvious here.

I tried a search with 'sweden guac bowls' (minus the quotation marks) and got that, along with a bunch of superbowl guacamole recipies and some other recipie stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 23, 2016, 04:28:47 pm

TL;DR: Go home Loud Whispers, you are drunk. :p

Anyways, it really looks like it's going to be Clinton this primaries, is it bad? Would Bernie be any better?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:07:49 pm

This is the retarded shit I'm talking about, as if this is better

Even after Paris also proved otherwise about ISIS fighters returning in particular (not that it matters who it is in particular sneaking in) it all goes through one ear and out the next. They can literally brag to you about how they did it and you'll ignore it
you pl btw

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day
>belgians

Meanwhile in eastern Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qco51zahONg
http://toprightnews.com/this-nation-just-had-a-massive-protest-against-islam-horrified-media-censors-it/

Really now stop treating europe as one country. The fact countries decided to accept hundreds of thousands immigrants because germany told them to is just a case of politicians being slow as fuck and just listening to orders because some EU countries are inherently more equal than other (with germany being the most equal).
Border countries are already building walls to keep them out and the only question is when people will finally have enough because i refuse to believe western Europe is willing to go the way of the dodo.
(That supposedly lacked any fear of humans and was popular among sailors because they'd come to them rather than run making "hunting" them trivial.)

Quote from: Magistrum on March 23, 2016, 04:28:47 pm

TL;DR: Go home Loud Whispers, you are drunk. :p

Anyways, it really looks like it's going to be Clinton this primaries, is it bad? Would Bernie be any better?

Oi mate! This is the EU thread!
Also Bernie is the lesser evil since Clinton is in favour of anything the polls say is popular. If the majority wanted to nuke china her program sure as hell would have nuking China in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 23, 2016, 04:35:26 pm

Quote from: Pancaek on March 23, 2016, 04:11:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:07:49 pm

See: Sweden + guac bowls

All I'm getting from google is Jeb Bush selling 75$ guac bowls on his campaign stores. I'm sorry, my english isn't the best, so I'm probably missing something fairly obvious here.

The guac bowl incident appears to be turning into a representation of absurd incompetence in general.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 04:35:53 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on March 23, 2016, 04:28:47 pm

Anyways, it really looks like it's going to be Clinton this primaries, is it bad? Would Bernie be any better?

Whether it's 'bad' depends on ones point of view and party alignment. She wouldn't be much worse than Obama neccesarily and he's a somewhat average president I think, not awesome, but not horrible either.

She looks like a saint of widsom compared to Trump though....

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on March 23, 2016, 04:28:47 pm

TL;DR: Go home Loud Whispers, you are drunk. :p

Anyways, it really looks like it's going to be Clinton this primaries, is it bad? Would Bernie be any better?

Oi mate! This is the EU thread!
Also Bernie is the lesser evil since Clinton is in favour of anything the polls say is popular. If the majority wanted to nuke china her program sure as hell would have nuking China in it.

Whoop, my bad for furthering it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:47:54 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Really now stop treating europe as one country.

It is a lot easier than saying Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Norway excluding Finland, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, Austria, Hungary, Czechkibreki Republic e.t.c.
I do not want the European Union but [ctrl] [c] + [ctrl] [v] lots of Yuropoor nations with the addendum of #notallyuropoors is pointless as the majority in the most powerful do, so the minority of smart nations full of sane yuropoors do not need to be addressed at all

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

The fact countries decided to accept hundreds of thousands immigrants because germany told them to is just a case of politicians being slow as fuck and just listening to orders because some EU countries are inherently more equal than other (with germany being the most equal).

Brought in by popular demand from the ground up to interest groups and think tanks from the top down. It's been 0 days since the last German has been caught trying to help people illegally migrate through Europe, do you honestly think this is just a problem with politicians? Machiavelli the dastardly Italian did note well that ultimately unless you're the Holy Roman Emperor, power stems from the people you rule, and if you fuck with them without securing your military class and putting Fortresses in their towns they're going to fuck you up. Who votes for these politicians, whose populaces are these politicians drawn from, who teaches to hate Europe to future yuropoors, who lets this all happen? Yuropoors, either apathetic or supportive. This is why I don't pay too much mind anymore to groups like the ESI or Soros or even the EU, or specific phenomenon like the African boat migrants or the Taharrush enrichment train or the Pakistani schoolgirl educational adventure because they're all just symptoms of a system Yuropoors built and want; it's self-destruction by design. Why do Swedes attack themselves? Raised by the system previous Swedes left, and so on to create an ever Swedish guac nation

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Border countries are already building walls to keep them out and the only question is when people will finally have enough because i refuse to believe western Europe is willing to go the way of the dodo.
(That supposedly lacked any fear of humans and was popular among sailors because they'd come to them rather than run making "hunting" them trivial.)

I remember 10 years ago when the Chinese called us the land of the ever-setting Sun

We approach night

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:03:13 pm

@LW I'm gonna guess that 'guac' is british slang for 'shit', right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

Hue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 05:15:31 pm

the second renaissance:when the Europeans figure they have no fucking moral need to accept,feed,house,and even respect these muslims and such diversity beans.
oh Europe..
why did you let these ¨migrate¨when your ancestors spent hundred of years repelling them,getting raided by them,getting fucking turned into sex slaves by them...even getting your balls cut off so you could guard their also stolen and enslaved brides.
is it some kind of pathetic soul tearing white guilt that got imprinted upon your minds in school and the media?
also a lot of these..peoples used to be colonial subjects..that in the end supported their own independence yet they somehow proved that they cant govern and manage themselves without it turning into a shit flinging contest involving rifles and rape.

just why?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:47:54 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Really now stop treating europe as one country.

It is a lot easier than saying Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Norway excluding Finland, Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, Austria, Hungary, Czechkibreki Republic e.t.c.
I do not want the European Union but [ctrl] [c] + [ctrl] [v] lots of Yuropoor nations with the addendum of #notallyuropoors is pointless as the majority in the most powerful do, so the minority of smart nations full of sane yuropoors do not need to be addressed at all

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

The fact countries decided to accept hundreds of thousands immigrants because germany told them to is just a case of politicians being slow as fuck and just listening to orders because some EU countries are inherently more equal than other (with germany being the most equal).

Brought in by popular demand from the ground up to interest groups and think tanks from the top down. It's been 0 days since the last German has been caught trying to help people illegally migrate through Europe, do you honestly think this is just a problem with politicians? Machiavelli the dastardly Italian did note well that ultimately unless you're the Holy Roman Emperor, power stems from the people you rule, and if you fuck with them without securing your military class and putting Fortresses in their towns they're going to fuck you up. Who votes for these politicians, whose populaces are these politicians drawn from, who teaches to hate Europe to future yuropoors, who lets this all happen? Yuropoors, either apathetic or supportive. This is why I don't pay too much mind anymore to groups like the ESI or Soros or even the EU, or specific phenomenon like the African boat migrants or the Taharrush enrichment train or the Pakistani schoolgirl educational adventure because they're all just symptoms of a system Yuropoors built and want; it's self-destruction by design. Why do Swedes attack themselves? Raised by the system previous Swedes left, and so on to create an ever Swedish guac nation

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 04:31:01 pm

Border countries are already building walls to keep them out and the only question is when people will finally have enough because i refuse to believe western Europe is willing to go the way of the dodo.
(That supposedly lacked any fear of humans and was popular among sailors because they'd come to them rather than run making "hunting" them trivial.)

I remember 10 years ago when the Chinese called us the land of the ever-setting Sun

We approach night

1 - Ok fair game i guess.

2 - They smuggle them because it pays well. People are income minded and if they can earn several thousand euro by smuggling a bunch of people with little risk then they will do it.

3 - I'm quite sure that was because the British empire had loads of colonies across the globe so technically the sun shines on some part of the empire at all times... that is no longer the case however. But hey Allah is a nocturnal god right?

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

Hue.

Didn't the locals crucify Jesus?
And were Jews on top of that?
I think that's a reason to hate them rather than help them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miauw62 on March 23, 2016, 05:20:37 pm

belgium is basically a really weird confederate state. Some things are in the hands of the federal government, and then we've got three governments with language-based territories who are supposed to handle cultural shit and three other regional governments who handle most of the other things. brussels is part of two language communities but it's own "other" government. the flemish language community is merged with the flemish "other" government. there are some radical separatists but also more centrist parties trying to gradually move permissions from the federal government to the regional governments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:25:04 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

Didn't the locals crucify Jesus?
And were Jews on top of that?
I think that's a reason to hate them rather than help them.

Don't even try to argue, it was told to me by someone who I could describe as nearly-hippie heavily christian soccer mom, the kind that is going to speak with your manager and accuse you of being a satan spawn.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:28:49 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

Hue.

Didn't the locals crucify Jesus?
And were Jews on top of that?
I think that's a reason to hate them rather than help them.

Technically it was the Roman governor, who may or may not have been a local, who decided whether or not he was guilty and whatever, but yeah, basically it was the Jewish priests (the elietes) who got him cruxified.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:32:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:28:49 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

Hue.

Didn't the locals crucify Jesus?
And were Jews on top of that?
I think that's a reason to hate them rather than help them.

Technically it was the Roman governor, who may or may not have been a local, who decided whether or not he was guilty and whatever, but yeah, basically it was the Jewish priests (the elietes) who got him cruxified.

Technically but the Roman governor also gave them a chance to release one prisoner and pick between Jesus and a well known murderer and the crowned (according to the bible naturally) chanted to release the murderer.
Since the crowd was mostly Jewish the blame is mostly on Jews of all classes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 23, 2016, 05:36:35 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:32:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:28:49 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

Hue.

Didn't the locals crucify Jesus?
And were Jews on top of that?
I think that's a reason to hate them rather than help them.

Technically it was the Roman governor, who may or may not have been a local, who decided whether or not he was guilty and whatever, but yeah, basically it was the Jewish priests (the elietes) who got him cruxified.

Technically but the Roman governor also gave them a chance to release one prisoner and pick between Jesus and a well known murderer and the crowned (according to the bible naturally) chanted to release the murderer.

To this day noone knows why they chose to release Roger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lc86JUAwwg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 06:00:07 pm

Ok, again, I don't know what's shitposting and what's just people being fucktards. (Not you LW, you're cool).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 06:01:50 pm

its the great life cycle of an European political thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 06:13:39 pm

So much hatred in that last page. Kind of surprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2016, 06:15:48 pm

Why? At least no one is advocating genocide this time...

Gash, I long for the day where I could feel superior to the Amerithread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 06:18:58 pm

I don't usually read this thread, and it says friendly and polite right in the topic.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 23, 2016, 07:47:55 pm

The...Yikes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 23, 2016, 07:58:37 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 23, 2016, 07:45:23 pm

So, since this at least pertains to Europe... How do you guys feel about the looming extinction of the ash tree?

I didn't know ash borers were a problem in Europe. They're all over the Eastern US, my own Ohio is one of the states under a quarantine of certain products to limit their spread. Apparently they've released some parasitic wasps that only feed on the beetles to control their numbers, but it's too recent to have seen much effect. European governments are considering the same, but none seem to've gone through with it yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 08:03:44 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 23, 2016, 07:45:23 pm

So, since this at least pertains to Europe... How do you guys feel about the looming extinction of the ash tree?

Well, the European one anyway. Although it might only become regionally extinct as the tree is cultivated elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_excelsior Don't know what's causing the massive dieback of the tree though.

Quote from: Baffler on March 23, 2016, 07:58:37 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 23, 2016, 07:45:23 pm

So, since this at least pertains to Europe... How do you guys feel about the looming extinction of the ash tree?

I didn't know ash borers were a problem in Europe. They're all over the Eastern US, my own Ohio is one of the states under a quarantine of certain products to limit their spread. Apparently they've released some parasitic wasps that only feed on the beetles to control their numbers, but it's too recent to have seen much effect. European governments are considering the same, but none seem to've gone through with it yet.

The problem in Europe isn't an insect, it's a fungus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 23, 2016, 08:12:20 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 08:03:44 pm

Quote from: Baffler on March 23, 2016, 07:58:37 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 23, 2016, 07:45:23 pm

So, since this at least pertains to Europe... How do you guys feel about the looming extinction of the ash tree?

I didn't know ash borers were a problem in Europe. They're all over the Eastern US, my own Ohio is one of the states under a quarantine of certain products to limit their spread. Apparently they've released some parasitic wasps that only feed on the beetles to control their numbers, but it's too recent to have seen much effect. European governments are considering the same, but none seem to've gone through with it yet.

The problem in Europe isn't an insect, it's a fungus.

The problem is two-fold. (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35876621) Eradicating one but not the other only buys them time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 24, 2016, 01:15:33 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 23, 2016, 06:13:39 pm

So much hatred in that last page. Kind of surprising.

People do tend to get rather upset about deadly terrorist attacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 01:53:22 am

I am pretty upset too. I'd like to see those terrorists hand by the balls, if those weren't currently a fine paste all over Zaventem airport. That doesn't make me want to genocide the population those guys are from.

Oh, we got a message from Best Korea.

Quote from: KCNA

   It reiterated the DPRK government's invariable stand of opposing all forms of terrorism and expressed hope that Belgium will eradicate the tragic consequences of the recent incident as early as possible and regain stability.

Exterminate all consequences!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 24, 2016, 03:45:44 am

Loudwhispers is in his LoudPolitics phase again. I miss the exhaustiy researched mega posts over the chanting of "GUAC GUAC BELGIAN TERRORIST = REFUGEE ".

( If you want to shit on the Brussels, shit on the fact that one of these guys was extradited from Turkey after being arrested for terrorism charges)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2016, 05:04:17 am

Salem Abdeslam, who until yesterday strongly opposed being extradited to France, and offered to provide intel in exchange for information, has changed his mind.
He now wants to be extradited to France as soon as possible, and refuses to say anything anymore.
I guess Belgians are very proficient torturers.

His lawyer was attacked physically by a Belgian citizen at his office, for defending Abdeslam. He managed to overtake his assailant himself, but has cloed his office now, to 'protect his collegues and employees'.

That's terrorism too, attacking lawyers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2016, 05:51:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2016, 05:04:17 am

Salem Abdeslam, who until yesterday strongly opposed being extradited to France, and offered to provide intel in exchange for information, has changed his mind.
He now wants to be extradited to France as soon as possible, and refuses to say anything anymore.
I guess Belgians are very proficient torturers.

His lawyer was attacked physically by a Belgian citizen at his office, for defending Abdeslam. He managed to overtake his assailant himself, but has cloed his office now, to 'protect his collegues and employees'.

That's terrorism too, attacking lawyers.

I think he had information about the Brussel attacks and either wanted to play for time or he genuinely hoped that giving information about the attacks would lead to a less severe punishment for himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2016, 07:07:45 am

Chairman of the Belgian Court of Justice, Luc Hennart, has decided to close down the civil court's building, after the staff of civil and peace courts went on strike earlier today, because they don't feel there's enough security measures in place to make them feel safe at work. One more point for the terrorists, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 07:12:02 am

It should be noted that France, unlike Belgium, got a legal framework for "repenters", to lessen charges in exchange for cooperation. I don't think it applies in terrorists case after successful attacks, but he might be trying anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 24, 2016, 07:13:06 am

I always thought it was weird to feel insecure about terrorist attacks right after a terrorist attack... I mean, it takes a great deal of preparation to get these things done, and you can't reuse resources. One boom, and all the surviving operatives are being hunted by the police and unable to perform anything anymore. Figures that they make multiple attacks simultaneously instead of spreading it through the week.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2016, 07:24:41 am

Jan Jambon, the vice-premier of Belgium offered his resignation to the prime minister yesterday, but it was refused, since the government does not want instability in times of terror.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 24, 2016, 07:27:08 am

Quote from: Magistrum on March 24, 2016, 07:13:06 am

I always thought it was weird to feel insecure about terrorist attacks right after a terrorist attack... I mean, it takes a great deal of preparation to get these things done, and you can't reuse resources. One boom, and all the surviving operatives are being hunted by the police and unable to perform anything anymore. Figures that they make multiple attacks simultaneously instead of spreading it through the week.

Well, this still happened only a few days after Daesh attacks in Egypt and Ankara, so they're clustered in terms of timespan. I would hope there isn't any more, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect another attack somewhere. Maybe not Belgium though.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2016, 07:24:41 am

Jan Jambon, the vice-premier of Belgium offered his resignation to the prime minister yesterday, but it was refused, since the government does not want instability in times of terror.

What exactly is the vice-premier in charge of politically speaking?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 07:32:43 am

He is also interior ministers. Vice-priceministership are mostly status thing we give as part of the horse-trading necessary to form a government. Koen Geens, the Justice Minister also offered his resignation but was kept.

Magistrum: Suspects on the run are liable to make themselves blow up before being taken (not unlike what happened here).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 24, 2016, 07:54:59 am

I was referring to the scope of a country. It is expected to have attacks in another country, but those are planned and performed in parallel for all we know.

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 07:32:43 am

Magistrum: Suspects on the run are liable to make themselves blow up before being taken (not unlike what happened here).

I highly doubt it... Even now, a survivor from the Paris terror cell just went on to perform another attack instead of simply dying the fastest possible. Weird that they would put a bomb-maker to be suicide bomber tough... Seems like a waste of resources. They must really have been running out of operatives in the country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 08:08:29 am

Ibrahim al Bakraoui was on the run after the arrest of Abdeslam and a couple of other raids over the last few days. He even left a suicide not on his laptop saying he was feeling trapped, afraid of a lifetime in jail and looking forward to going out with a boom.

Feel free to doubt it, but I'll take the terrorist's own word over yours.

Re: Erdogan. So Turkey is claiming that it warned Belgium on Ibrahim's arrest and deportation back in july 2015. Now, it appears that while Belgium had a deal to share information about foreign fighters since late 2013, Jan Jambon (our interior minister) admitted to Parliament that the deal wasn't implemented because of the lack of Turkish cooperation back in April 2015. Erdogan might be bullshitting to deflect attention from his non-respect of the deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 24, 2016, 08:21:13 am

[not_entirely_serious_mode]
re: previous pages

i laugh at the mere racist plebs that think that immigrants will overcome yurope
every super racist that has transcended past the normal limits of racism (like me right now, in the "not_entirely_serious" mode, for example) would know that yuropures are worth at least 100-1000 non-yuros, and that's just teh conservative lower bound
and so would not even consider the possibility of migrants somehow defeating yuropures
because it doesn't matter how much they reproduce
they can't defeat yurope without
themselves becoming
yuropures

*drops the mic*
[/not_entirely_serious_mode]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 24, 2016, 08:38:40 am

Quote from: Magistrum on March 24, 2016, 07:54:59 am

I was referring to the scope of a country. It is expected to have attacks in another country, but those are planned and performed in parallel for all we know.

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 07:32:43 am

Magistrum: Suspects on the run are liable to make themselves blow up before being taken (not unlike what happened here).

I highly doubt it... Even now, a survivor from the Paris terror cell just went on to perform another attack instead of simply dying the fastest possible. Weird that they would put a bomb-maker to be suicide bomber tough... Seems like a waste of resources. They must really have been running out of operatives in the country.

Reportedly they've sent "at least 400 fighters," if this article's sources are telling the truth (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/is-trains-400-fighters-to-attack-europe-in-wave-of-bloodshed/ar-BBqQ20q).

As for the bomb-maker, they've found evidence indicating that he and the others in his cell thought the security forces were closing in on them (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/belgian-authorities-identify-attackers-as-pair-of-brothers-as-manhunt-continues/2016/03/23/0c79c1ae-f064-11e5-a2a3-d4e9697917d1_story.html), so they had to strike immediately or end up in jail next to Abdeslam.

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 01:53:22 am

I am pretty upset too. I'd like to see those terrorists hand by the balls, if those weren't currently a fine paste all over Zaventem airport. That doesn't make me want to genocide the population those guys are from.

Oh, we got a message from Best Korea.

Quote from: KCNA

   It reiterated the DPRK government's invariable stand of opposing all forms of terrorism and expressed hope that Belgium will eradicate the tragic consequences of the recent incident as early as possible and regain stability.

Exterminate all consequences!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/dalekhead.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2016, 10:09:28 am

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/europe/karadzic-war-crimes-verdict/index.html?adkey=bn The guy was found guilty of the genocides, the trial was an incredibly long one, over 20 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 10:15:54 am

Don't we have a Bosnian on the thread?

Also, the Belgian government is being roasted in the media for its failure. As someone who hates those right-wing wankers with a passion it's jimmying my rustles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2016, 10:27:28 am

I think theres someone from Serbia, but anyway, theres certainly some Balkan Bay12ers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2016, 11:35:08 am

Bashing goverments is easy, preventing terrorist attacks is not and generally not worth at all the insane amount of money and effort spend on it as illustrated by this shiny graph:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i1.wp.com/thinkbynumbers.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/death-and-dollars.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 24, 2016, 12:44:50 pm

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/our-gti-findings

> over 32,000

Disregarding fancy chart which says '300' because the other numbers might be wrong/fake too
(Also... Airplane icon? For terrorism?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2016, 01:44:12 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on March 24, 2016, 12:44:50 pm

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/our-gti-findings

> over 32,000

Disregarding fancy chart which says '300' because the other numbers might be wrong/fake too
(Also... Airplane icon? For terrorism?)

Ohw yeah the chart is US I believe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 01:59:19 pm

It's also ridiculously biased.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2016, 02:01:00 pm

-snip-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: RedKing on March 24, 2016, 03:57:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 01:59:19 pm

It's also ridiculously biased.

You're right....the actual number (based on the GTI chart) is far lower (18). But then 2014 was a bad year. The previous two years were 7 and 6 fatalities, respectively. And 0 in 2011.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SquatchHammer on March 24, 2016, 04:53:37 pm

Quote from: RedKing on March 24, 2016, 03:57:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 01:59:19 pm

It's also ridiculously biased.

You're right....the actual number (based on the GTI chart) is far lower (18). But then 2014 was a bad year. The previous two years were 7 and 6 fatalities, respectively. And 0 in 2011.

'

That's sensationalist news for you. Fox News doesn't have the entire market on it...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 24, 2016, 10:14:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 24, 2016, 08:08:29 am

Sorry, I also share that view, what I meant is that a terrorist is unlike to simply suicide... He will probably kill himself, but performing a operation.

400 operatives... That must be some solid 80 or so getting trough to the terror cells. Unless he claims that is the actual number of operatives that successfully infiltrated along with him. Then I call bullshit on his confession bragging. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 24, 2016, 11:12:45 pm

It sounded like they got that from other sources. Who knows, though, since if they did, they can't really say how they know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 24, 2016, 11:39:41 pm

Spoiler: too much text (click to show/hide)

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:03:13 pm

@LW I'm gonna guess that 'guac' is british slang for 'shit', right?

No

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 05:15:31 pm

the second renaissance:when the Europeans figure they have no fucking moral need to accept,feed,house,and even respect these muslims and such diversity beans.
oh Europe..
why did you let these ¨migrate¨when your ancestors spent hundred of years repelling them,getting raided by them,getting fucking turned into sex slaves by them...even getting your balls cut off so you could guard their also stolen and enslaved brides.
is it some kind of pathetic soul tearing white guilt that got imprinted upon your minds in school and the media?
also a lot of these..peoples used to be colonial subjects..that in the end supported their own independence yet they somehow proved that they cant govern and manage themselves without it turning into a shit flinging contest involving rifles and rape.
just why?

I don't know man, that day will never come and it doesn't even matter what it is, even if Islamicization is stopped Europeans will find some new novel way to be painfully suicidal

All the gears are moving this direction though and it won't stops until it collapses completely. More people are fleeing to my island, legally and otherwise, it's getting worse and worse and no one with power even wants to stop it
I can only hope the shaking up to come will unite the newcomers

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

1 - Ok fair game i guess.
2 - They smuggle them because it pays well. People are income minded and if they can earn several thousand euro by smuggling a bunch of people with little risk then they will do it.
3 - I'm quite sure that was because the British empire had loads of colonies across the globe so technically the sun shines on some part of the empire at all times... that is no longer the case however. But hey Allah is a nocturnal god right?

2. Doing it without payment whilst risking their lives to do so.
3. No. When Europe ruled the world they were the Empires on which the sun never set, literally because they covered the globe and metaphorically because of how mighty and prosperous they were. Then they became the land of the setting sun in eternal decline, falling farther and farther into apathy, decadence and irrelevance, growing dogmatically enamored with self-destruction and replacement. Now we are crossing dusk and entering night, where at last the sun has set... The future is overseas, where the sun still shines, until the sun stops shining.

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

I don't follow, even if they were millions of Lebanese Assyrians it would change the details but not the situation

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 24, 2016, 03:45:44 am

Loudwhispers is in his LoudPolitics phase again. I miss the exhaustiy researched mega posts over the chanting of "GUAC GUAC BELGIAN TERRORIST = REFUGEE ".
( If you want to shit on the Brussels, shit on the fact that one of these guys was extradited from Turkey after being arrested for terrorism charges)

Doesn't matter does it, people just deny any evidence I show them or ignore it and move on, whilst I get the same level of enjoyment either way but without the exhaustion. Seems sort of fitting I pulled up the ESI right before this, this is the bold new Europe full of opportunity we've been having for so long now.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 24, 2016, 08:21:13 am

i laugh at the mere racist plebs that think that immigrants will overcome yurope
every super racist that has transcended past the normal limits of racism (like me right now, in the "not_entirely_serious" mode, for example) would know that yuropures are worth at least 100-1000 non-yuros, and that's just teh conservative lower bound
and so would not even consider the possibility of migrants somehow defeating yuropures
because it doesn't matter how much they reproduce
they can't defeat yurope without
themselves becoming
yuropures
*drops the mic*
[/not_entirely_serious_mode]

I know you're not serious but there are people who hold this view seriously. I remember in old Europol thread everyone refused to accept that Yuropoors could ever be replaced, back then the Swede cities had not yet done so but London had already. People just then tried mocking British culture for not being strong enough to resist any influence at all from migrant groups, I remember I just shitposted about English girls being used as sex slaves in the thousands as unfortunate proof they were actually right. People are getting away with things that would've started wars two centuries ago, so I suppose the benefit of living in the current year is now you can do whatever you can get away with.
I don't know much about what can be said in regards to European races, I can only assume WWII and WWI must have fucked up their gene pool pretty fierce, but I do know for sure it fucked up them culturally and spiritually, putting them onto the slippery slope downhill to the current year where Europeans have managed to replace themselves in the most retarded fashion possible and are incapable of stopping themselves from replacing themselves in a fashion perhaps more retarded than their pursuit of replacement. I watch with curiosity but they're doing this much too close to home, I've seen my city changing with more worry than its previous inhabitants saw when it first changed. Indian doctors shouting at healthy beggars, actual fascists attacking people openly in daytime and preachers preaching the word of Bagdhadi without consequence, some of it is business as usual, others not - all getting worse. I suspect it must come down ultimately to how Europeans spent the last 80 years destroying the family unit to make way for the state to raise their children, with the state opting to raise their children as weak, obedient, dependent marxist consumers. People bound to no loyalty to anything, no ambition for anything, no want for anything but hedonism, what few actually raise children raise kids who never stood a chance. In truth, the value of a Yuropure is less than a foreigner in almost every case, at least from foreigners leaving urban or agrarian societies. Sure a Yuropure may be able to tell you about all 189 facebook genders and sexual identities but how many of them are old? How many of them are weak? How many of them will bear no children? How many of them will not push for mass immigration? How many of them would not flee from their country at first light? The number dwindles to nothingness. So you end up with a society where the Europeans that are left are in small number, are mostly useless, and have left their government, their media, their religion, their vital professions, their police in the hands of newcomers - and they expect that their descendants will be in control how? Why is it when migrants push their children to study engineering or medicine or pick up a useful trade or go into education Yuropoors would rather their children go to an elite Uni to learn about oppression narrative, leaving all the machinations of their country to be left to undesirables they must save?
Why is this madness the norm?

Quote

"Gender researchers have convinced politicians that the solution to all problems is a gender perspective.
"That's quite dangerous because they spend money and resources on the wrong things."
The Egalia school - which is state-funded - is proving popular though, and boasts a long waiting list.
Pia Korpi, a metal designer, and her husband Yukka, a dancer and choreographer, have two children at the pre-school.
Ms Korpi says she, and her husband in particular, had to battle to pursue their chosen interests because they sat uneasily with gender expectations, and they want their children to feel free from these restraints.
She says most of their friends and family are 100% behind them, but admits some people might not understand their choice. "People who don't know what this is about - and especially in the countryside - they think it's brainwashing." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419)

So close to self-awareness. God damn.

A quick shit estimation:
http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/age_structure.html
Around 7m are women and girls under 20 and another 7m are men and boys under 20, 17.5% of Germany

There are roughly 65m Germans in Germany so that's got to be around 11m Germans under 20, roughly equal in the gender split. That'd also mean there'd be about 3m foreigners in the same age bracket and gender, using shitty cia 2014 factbook numbers because Germany refuses to conduct any censuses right now to not scare the normies (that bit with the ESI telling politicians to speak to their constituents in migration by the daily rate as opposed to annual, HAHAHA THIS IS THE FUTURE WE CHOSE). So 21% of Germany was not going to be Germans before bold new Europe happened with roughly equal gender split, then in two years 2.3m arrived, majority of them young men, with a yearly rate of 1.5m in 2015, set to rise in 2016, getting to 33%. At current rates for Germoney (assuming that the rise we are observing now never happened and Merkel succeeds in creating regular migration to Germany) it would take 3 years for Germans to ensure they will become a minority in their own country once the old ones die childless, not taking into account intermarriage and competition / or higher migrant birth rates / German men being useless / or the fact that I spent more time and care doing the math on animal slaughter than German slaughter and that Germany and Sweden conveniently stopped publishing stats after they enriched themselves and their advisers said not to scare voters with hatefacts

tfw I appreciate animal slaughter methods more
They didn't have any choice, but humans who bring their obvious consequences on their head in the name of obvious coincidences get what their parents deserved
This is why I find it funny that the people Swedes call nazis are lgbt progressives who don't like islamism because it infringes on their lgbt and they ignore intersexuality intersectionality
It's cute but that's all Sweden values protecting, and is why it will die and be reborn, for what is dead may never die but rises again cheeki and brecki

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2016, 05:00:48 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:47:54 pm

I remember 10 years ago when the Chinese called us the land of the ever-setting Sun

We approach night

    O man, take care!
    What does the deep midnight declare?
    "I was asleep—
    From a deep dream I woke and swear:
    The world is deep,
    Deeper than day had been aware.
    Deep is its woe;
    Joy—deeper yet than agony:
    Woe implores: Go!
    But all joy wants eternity—
    Wants deep, wants deep eternity."

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,
And things need changin' everywhere you go,
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,
And tell the world that everything's OK,
But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,
'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Guac.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 25, 2016, 12:25:11 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 24, 2016, 11:39:41 pm

Spoiler: too much text (click to show/hide)

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2016, 05:03:13 pm

@LW I'm gonna guess that 'guac' is british slang for 'shit', right?

No

Quote from: xxseuzxx on March 23, 2016, 05:15:31 pm

the second renaissance:when the Europeans figure they have no fucking moral need to accept,feed,house,and even respect these muslims and such diversity beans.
oh Europe..
why did you let these ¨migrate¨when your ancestors spent hundred of years repelling them,getting raided by them,getting fucking turned into sex slaves by them...even getting your balls cut off so you could guard their also stolen and enslaved brides.
is it some kind of pathetic soul tearing white guilt that got imprinted upon your minds in school and the media?
also a lot of these..peoples used to be colonial subjects..that in the end supported their own independence yet they somehow proved that they cant govern and manage themselves without it turning into a shit flinging contest involving rifles and rape.
just why?

I don't know man, that day will never come and it doesn't even matter what it is, even if Islamicization is stopped Europeans will find some new novel way to be painfully suicidal

All the gears are moving this direction though and it won't stops until it collapses completely. More people are fleeing to my island, legally and otherwise, it's getting worse and worse and no one with power even wants to stop it
I can only hope the shaking up to come will unite the newcomers

Quote from: Sonlirain on March 23, 2016, 05:17:50 pm

1 - Ok fair game i guess.
2 - They smuggle them because it pays well. People are income minded and if they can earn several thousand euro by smuggling a bunch of people with little risk then they will do it.
3 - I'm quite sure that was because the British empire had loads of colonies across the globe so technically the sun shines on some part of the empire at all times... that is no longer the case however. But hey Allah is a nocturnal god right?

2. Doing it without payment whilst risking their lives to do so.
3. No. When Europe ruled the world they were the Empires on which the sun never set, literally because they covered the globe and metaphorically because of how mighty and prosperous they were. Then they became the land of the setting sun in eternal decline, falling farther and farther into apathy, decadence and irrelevance, growing dogmatically enamored with self-destruction and replacement. Now we are crossing dusk and entering night, where at last the sun has set... The future is overseas, where the sun still shines, until the sun stops shining.

Quote from: Kot on March 23, 2016, 05:13:56 pm

Today I have heard the best argument for allowing immigrants into EU - they come from the same parts of world as Jesus and the rest of his squad, so basically they're related so it's okay.

I don't follow, even if they were millions of Lebanese Assyrians it would change the details but not the situation

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 24, 2016, 03:45:44 am

Loudwhispers is in his LoudPolitics phase again. I miss the exhaustiy researched mega posts over the chanting of "GUAC GUAC BELGIAN TERRORIST = REFUGEE ".
( If you want to shit on the Brussels, shit on the fact that one of these guys was extradited from Turkey after being arrested for terrorism charges)

Doesn't matter does it, people just deny any evidence I show them or ignore it and move on, whilst I get the same level of enjoyment either way but without the exhaustion. Seems sort of fitting I pulled up the ESI right before this, this is the bold new Europe full of opportunity we've been having for so long now.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 24, 2016, 08:21:13 am

i laugh at the mere racist plebs that think that immigrants will overcome yurope
every super racist that has transcended past the normal limits of racism (like me right now, in the "not_entirely_serious" mode, for example) would know that yuropures are worth at least 100-1000 non-yuros, and that's just teh conservative lower bound
and so would not even consider the possibility of migrants somehow defeating yuropures
because it doesn't matter how much they reproduce
they can't defeat yurope without
themselves becoming
yuropures
*drops the mic*
[/not_entirely_serious_mode]

I know you're not serious but there are people who hold this view seriously. I remember in old Europol thread everyone refused to accept that Yuropoors could ever be replaced, back then the Swede cities had not yet done so but London had already. People just then tried mocking British culture for not being strong enough to resist any influence at all from migrant groups, I remember I just shitposted about English girls being used as sex slaves in the thousands as unfortunate proof they were actually right. People are getting away with things that would've started wars two centuries ago, so I suppose the benefit of living in the current year is now you can do whatever you can get away with.
I don't know much about what can be said in regards to European races, I can only assume WWII and WWI must have fucked up their gene pool pretty fierce, but I do know for sure it fucked up them culturally and spiritually, putting them onto the slippery slope downhill to the current year where Europeans have managed to replace themselves in the most retarded fashion possible and are incapable of stopping themselves from replacing themselves in a fashion perhaps more retarded than their pursuit of replacement. I watch with curiosity but they're doing this much too close to home, I've seen my city changing with more worry than its previous inhabitants saw when it first changed. Indian doctors shouting at healthy beggars, actual fascists attacking people openly in daytime and preachers preaching the word of Bagdhadi without consequence, some of it is business as usual, others not - all getting worse. I suspect it must come down ultimately to how Europeans spent the last 80 years destroying the family unit to make way for the state to raise their children, with the state opting to raise their children as weak, obedient, dependent marxist consumers. People bound to no loyalty to anything, no ambition for anything, no want for anything but hedonism, what few actually raise children raise kids who never stood a chance. In truth, the value of a Yuropure is less than a foreigner in almost every case, at least from foreigners leaving urban or agrarian societies. Sure a Yuropure may be able to tell you about all 189 facebook genders and sexual identities but how many of them are old? How many of them are weak? How many of them will bear no children? How many of them will not push for mass immigration? How many of them would not flee from their country at first light? The number dwindles to nothingness. So you end up with a society where the Europeans that are left are in small number, are mostly useless, and have left their government, their media, their religion, their vital professions, their police in the hands of newcomers - and they expect that their descendants will be in control how? Why is it when migrants push their children to study engineering or medicine or pick up a useful trade or go into education Yuropoors would rather their children go to an elite Uni to learn about oppression narrative, leaving all the machinations of their country to be left to undesirables they must save?
Why is this madness the norm?

Quote

"Gender researchers have convinced politicians that the solution to all problems is a gender perspective.
"That's quite dangerous because they spend money and resources on the wrong things."
The Egalia school - which is state-funded - is proving popular though, and boasts a long waiting list.
Pia Korpi, a metal designer, and her husband Yukka, a dancer and choreographer, have two children at the pre-school.
Ms Korpi says she, and her husband in particular, had to battle to pursue their chosen interests because they sat uneasily with gender expectations, and they want their children to feel free from these restraints.
She says most of their friends and family are 100% behind them, but admits some people might not understand their choice. "People who don't know what this is about - and especially in the countryside - they think it's brainwashing." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419)

So close to self-awareness. God damn.

A quick shit estimation:
http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/age_structure.html
Around 7m are women and girls under 20 and another 7m are men and boys under 20, 17.5% of Germany

There are roughly 65m Germans in Germany so that's got to be around 11m Germans under 20, roughly equal in the gender split. That'd also mean there'd be about 3m foreigners in the same age bracket and gender, using shitty cia 2014 factbook numbers because Germany refuses to conduct any censuses right now to not scare the normies (that bit with the ESI telling politicians to speak to their constituents in migration by the daily rate as opposed to annual, HAHAHA THIS IS THE FUTURE WE CHOSE). So 21% of Germany was not going to be Germans before bold new Europe happened with roughly equal gender split, then in two years 2.3m arrived, majority of them young men, with a yearly rate of 1.5m in 2015, set to rise in 2016, getting to 33%. At current rates for Germoney (assuming that the rise we are observing now never happened and Merkel succeeds in creating regular migration to Germany) it would take 3 years for Germans to ensure they will become a minority in their own country once the old ones die childless, not taking into account intermarriage and competition / or higher migrant birth rates / German men being useless / or the fact that I spent more time and care doing the math on animal slaughter than German slaughter and that Germany and Sweden conveniently stopped publishing stats after they enriched themselves and their advisers said not to scare voters with hatefacts

tfw I appreciate animal slaughter methods more
They didn't have any choice, but humans who bring their obvious consequences on their head in the name of obvious coincidences get what their parents deserved
This is why I find it funny that the people Swedes call nazis are lgbt progressives who don't like islamism because it infringes on their lgbt and they ignore intersexuality intersectionality
It's cute but that's all Sweden values protecting, and is why it will die and be reborn, for what is dead may never die but rises again cheeki and brecki

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2016, 05:00:48 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 04:47:54 pm

I remember 10 years ago when the Chinese called us the land of the ever-setting Sun

We approach night

    O man, take care!
    What does the deep midnight declare?
    "I was asleep—
    From a deep dream I woke and swear:
    The world is deep,
    Deeper than day had been aware.
    Deep is its woe;
    Joy—deeper yet than agony:
    Woe implores: Go!
    But all joy wants eternity—
    Wants deep, wants deep eternity."

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,
And things need changin' everywhere you go,
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,
And tell the world that everything's OK,
But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,
'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Guac.

France and Britain are less enriched in culture? ( well, at least I would expect this from Britain, as it is natural dwarf fortress separated by ocean)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 12:59:19 am

Not France, and it's only less in relative terms. We're less enriched than Sweden in the same way there's more rainfall in Egypt than Libya but neither are particularly rainy. Take the most impregnable Fortress, one even as great as North America - there's no surviving someone on the inside simply opening the front door

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

The arabs are invading

Run

Soon you'll all be wearing turbans

Oh god the horror.


>.> I don't mean to make light of the situation anymore than you lot do, but honestly. APOCALYPSE NOW is bullshit. Life goes on. The fact that there's this much backlash means that the Cathedral or whatever the fuck will fail, there'll be issues for a while integrating however many came in, the EU will either break up or get strained that bit more, and then Kim Jong The Whatever will moon us all on camera with a phallic rocket in the background and we'll go worry about that for a bit. Reaction to this will push Europe in a new direction politically for a while, polarize shit a bit more, blah blah blah. You can tell me I'm wrong once one of the typically stable European countries collapses into Shariah lack-of-law. There might be an atrocity or two, or something that gets spun as one, but it'll blow over with a lot of fuss and clamor.
Politics is one half fearmongering, one third motivational speeches, and one quarter terrible statistics, charts, and graphs. I'm sick of it.

tl;dr: This, too, shall pass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Willfor on March 25, 2016, 01:37:52 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

tl;dr: This, too, shall pass.

But that can't be! White genocide and cultural marxists! /pol/ and r/europe can't possibly be wrong about these 100% real things, these totally not made up things that are going to destroy Europe!

Any day now these 100% not actually masks for personal insecurities are going to do Europe in. Any day now.

 :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:44:58 am

Quote from: Willfor on March 25, 2016, 01:37:52 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

tl;dr: This, too, shall pass.

But that can't be! White genocide and cultural marxists! /pol/ and r/europe can't possibly be wrong about these 100% real things, these totally not made up things that are going to destroy Europe!

Any day now these 100% not actually masks for personal insecurities are going to do Europe in. Any day now.

 :P

Don't get me wrong. This shit is fucked up on at least the level of Donald Trump being considered a viable candidate for presidency as long as he has. But, call me an optimist, the world hasn't ended yet, for all the ways it could have, and I have doubts it will now. I don't think the issues people have with it are just racist 4channers. But I also don't think it's DOOMSDAY like Loud Whispers proclaims every other post in massive transparent font. Donald Trump won't become president, Europe will not become the Middle Weast, and North Korea will manage to nuke approximately zero non North Korean cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

The fact that people are getting angry about it is what makes me think it will blow over. If it was just kinda going quietly on, that's what would get me worried. If everyone just kinda thought 'oh hey you know it's fine' about this stuff, rather than the backlash, then I would be seriously concerned. Backlash is good. Pain tells you there's something wrong, so you can change your behavior.

Maybe we just have different definitions of evil. But if your son-in-law's family is pressuring your daughter, the solution doesn't seem to be 'stop the muslims' to me. I've got a different perspective on this, perhaps, but calling a politician racist and calling a politician a communist/socialist are two sides of the same coin in America. I have a lot less investment in 'tradition and culture' than I do in the here and now. Islam has it's traditions too. I know the whole problem/point here is that no, not all cultural practices are equal, but I think the tradition of pogroms is better left dead. Again, maybe it's different in Europe. maybe the liberal movement has gone too far there, in reality rather than caricature. But the people I know care about what they deal with on a regular basis, and having someone be a dick to you in little ways constantly is something you're going to notice far more than which corporation is bribing which politician. One of those takes a fair chunk of effort to uncover, an even larger amount of effort to affect, and has very little visible return. The other takes a bit of effort, but can be changed decently fast, one way or another, and has a very obvious reward.

It feels like the modern equivalent of 'Oh the good old days'. Fuck the time when everyone went to war with everyone else. I'm all for going to war for tyranny, but 'oh no, people don't want to run off and get killed' doesn't seem like a complaint to me.

Besides which. Like I said, there's gonna be some nasty shit. I'm just saying it's not gonna destroy Europe.

I'm not saying to ignore it, I'm saying to cut through the bullshit. Because there is bullshit. There's bullshit everywhere. You can't escape it. That's one of the few things I'm pessimistic about. Signalling games and bullshit redirection and an endless fucking slog uphill to get any truth out of it, and then you have to figure out what biases you might have in filtering the information so as to make sure you have accurate picture and I just want to deal with the problem directly goddamnit. We're all full of it. That's the worst part. I don't even know how much of what I'm saying is genuinely what I'm hoping to say, and how much is my brain trying to do signalling games or misdirections to make people look stupid when my ego isn't looking. I hate it hate it hate it. But I still have to say it.

Tradition can go to hell. Forge a new tradition, damn it. Forge a new one with every generation. This is the world that brought us music and the internet and food that doesn't have goddamn maggots in it (we have moths in our garage, which is also our pantry for sealed foodstuffs. We took out the unsealed ones after an incident). This is the world where you aren't drafted to fight a war you have no interest in beyond an abstract love of king and country and maybe some ethnic hatred of those weird Spanish people that don't even speak a proper language like Polish or Lithuanian or Southern Costershire King's Queen's High English. So you know what? If our lives are too comfortable and easy, then good. We fucking won, then. And there's enough people with sense to keep the roof up and the walls in place, even if the door's rusted half shut and the pipes leak. Those will get fixed if you give it some time and effort too. Don't give up, don't give in, but don't turn your frustrations onto arbitrary groups because you figure that's the solution. Don't try to burn the house down in order to get rid of the termites. There's fight in us, and there's a fight to be fought. Maybe it's just not quite the one you think it is. Maybe it is the one you think it is. Finding out which war to fight is the first step. And there's a hell of a lot of wars, with a hell of a lot of soldiers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 25, 2016, 04:41:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 02:53:50 am

Islam has its own culture, as you say. Whether they're equal or not isn't for me to judge, but I have no desire for it to supplant the culture of my own country. I don't want my country to become more like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I don't want my granddaughters to be unable to leave the house without a male escort. I don't want them to grow up afraid because they're homosexual, and if they're discovered as such they could be stoned or beaten to death by a religious mob.

What. I've lived most my life in an actual Islamic country, and it's nothing like this at all. Seriously, it's not all sunshine and roses, but stoning people for being gay is not something that's being done here. Hell, beyond the gay folk and trans folk I do know here, one of my closest friends was a wingman for his gay friends, despite him being straight as an arrow. And in general, it's not as if Islamic countries in more well developed places aren't following a global trend of accepting lgbt folk.

And same for the kind of woman needs a male escort thing. Same friend had, for a large segment of his life, lived with his mother as she was working as a single parent. So no, Saudi is an outlier on this sense of things. They're generally the go to for a measure of cultural backwardness, and it confuses us over here as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 25, 2016, 04:56:18 am

Well the fact remains that one of the countries with the largest muslim populations of the world, Indonesia, has recently (ever since it's got a muslim government) gone from accepting lgbt to making it an offense punishable by whipping and caning. Even lgbt tourists are no longer safe. So I can't really agree with you saying that better developed muslim countries are moving towards acceptance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on March 25, 2016, 05:34:08 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 24, 2016, 11:39:41 pm

Sure a Yuropure may be able to tell you about all 189 facebook genders and sexual identities but how many of them are old? How many of them are weak? How many of them will bear no children? How many of them will not push for mass immigration? How many of them would not flee from their country at first light? The number dwindles to nothingness. So you end up with a society where the Europeans that are left are in small number, are mostly useless, and have left their government, their media, their religion, their vital professions, their police in the hands of newcomers - and they expect that their descendants will be in control how?Why is it when migrants push their children to study engineering or medicine or pick up a useful trade or go into education Yuropoors would rather their children go to an elite Uni to learn about oppression narrative, leaving all the machinations of their country to be left to undesirables they must save?

Do you think that non-migrant fertility rates will inevitably fall to zero in a few decades? How many Muslim cops have you seen beating up anti-immigrant demonstrators? How many can you realistically expect to see in a few decades? Are you seriously deluded enough to think that practically none of the European non-migrants want their children "to study engineering or medicine or pick up a useful trade or go into education" – that an undefined-but-very-large percentage of parents don't want their children to have a career, and the children end up not having a career because of their parents' silly preferences? I'm not misrepresenting you, that's what you just said:

Quote

Why is it when [no quantifier] migrants push their children to study engineering or medicine or pick up a useful trade or go into education [no quantifier] Yuropoors would rather their children go to an elite Uni [implying that you cannot pick up a "useful trade" at an university?] to learn about oppression narrative, [implying that the curriculum consists of "oppression studies" for practically all students?] leaving all the machinations of their country to be left to undesirables they must save? [implying that a "useful career" is needed to take part in the machinations of a country]

I wont even bother throwing the statistics at you, it's obviously not worth the fucking effort.

You're bonkers, m8. Absolutely fucking bonkers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 25, 2016, 05:37:23 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 04:56:42 am

I'll assume you don't live in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Sudan, northern Nigeria, or the UAE, where homosexuality is a capital offence.

I live in the UAE.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 25, 2016, 05:50:59 am

Europeans talking to Middle Easterners: "Here are some things you don't know about the country you live in."

Europeans talking to Americans: "You don't live here so you really have no idea what you're talking about."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on March 25, 2016, 05:53:54 am

Yes, it is, but guess what? It's not a law that particularly gets enforced like, at all. Legislators from these countries aren't the ones immigrating, and as you're demonstrating, you can have vatly differing ideas and politics from lawmakers in power. This is not something controversial. Part of the reason European countries generally don't do much about it is that the cases do not pop up all that often among the nationals that live here. I mean, if I'm looking for older people then sure, but in my age group... I can't think of all that many people that do oppose gay rights, with most that do effectively being southern baptist muslims.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 06:25:43 am

Quote from: penguinofhonor on March 25, 2016, 05:50:59 am

Europeans talking to Middle Easterners: "Here are some things you don't know about the country you live in."
Europeans talking to Americans: "You don't live here so you really have no idea what you're talking about."

Is this what Americans actually believe? Because what I'm seeing is Europeans being enlightened by their toleran and progresiv refusing to make any comment on Muslim countries whilst the Americans lecture Muslim and Yuropoor alike in how they should live their life or how their country is run. I mean you have to resort to making up quotes whilst any of the Yurpoors here can actually quote where Americans are lecturing people in the ME or Yurop thread on how their country is or should be.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

The arabs are invading
Run
Soon you'll all be wearing turbans
Oh god the horror.

Lol I've been taught how to wear turbans by Arabs already but they're not fashionable (least on me), so I'll wait till I convert to Sikhism first

Also I take offence to you calling it an invasion, that would imply hostility and them paying for themselves, whilst they're just walking in because they were invited and are paid for by yuropoors

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

>.> I don't mean to make light of the situation anymore than you lot do, but honestly. APOCALYPSE NOW is bullshit. Life goes on.

M8 do you think London is exploded? No, it's the living, breathing shekel magic capital of the world. Yet the English will nonetheless not be coming back any time soon and we're a tame example by comparison as the number of jihadis we produce is within our ability to watch (mostly, but life goes on) and the issue with integration and enforcement of criminal law is as much a problem of apathetic Britons enabling bumpkins taking advantage of their weakness. That's just with the UK, with moves to curb immigration that may or may not succeed depending upon the result of the referendum, with a growing population amongst whom marxism is not endemic beyond the southern urban centres. For Europe the numbers are so much higher, their populations so much older, so much fewer; London, Malmo, which city will be next, to make Europeans minority in their own lands by invitation. Life goes on, but it will not be European, though it will be within Europe. That will be lost, as it has, and I would not mind if that would be the end of it but seeing how the powerful remnants still push for more immigration even to London I don't think it ever will stop until they are lost. If it all continues exactly the same then a whole people will have made themselves irrelevant in their homeland and the newcomers will not have even learned a thing from their mistakes; if they can build a better country and not just get by with recovery and continual future replacement then this will have all been a pointless exercise in diversity brought upon by marxists for little reason other than they like it because. I look at Merkel telling the decaying Germans left that Germany is losing her social core, then accelerating migration to Germany further, is it not funny?
Life will go on, that I am sure. Even if Europe doesn't sort out their shit before some African or Asian catastrophe triggers a massive migration to Europe because the Commission is willfully pursuing a course of open borders versus foreign development, what is lost is will not result in a collapse of capitalism. Perhaps some rich yuropoors will continue getting by living in their gated communities or rural getaways as if nothing has changed, that would be cute. Yet the fact that it is a fate so easily avoidable just rattles my funny bones! I do wonder how aware Europeans are of what they are doing. What comes to mind is the fact that they control their own media and keep themselves enclosed in their ideological bubbles, and the information they are fed are supposed to influence them - what immediately comes to mind are the Yuros covering up the myriad mass sexual assaults, lynchings, rape gangs, whilst publishing endless damage control, emotional content and even recently with the ESI telling German politicians to speak of the migration rate in the daily rate, as it sounds better to have small numbers daily than millions annually. Then I do think it would be irrelevant what information bubble one lived in, as I doubt you can sincerely believe lots of people moving in to a place will not result in competition, tension and replacement, unless of course you are ideologically in favour of this and simply wish to avoid alarming those who would care. Then again, I shouldn't doubt it.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

The fact that there's this much backlash means that the Cathedral or whatever the fuck will fail, there'll be issues for a while integrating however many came in, the EU will either break up or get strained that bit more, and then Kim Jong The Whatever will moon us all on camera with a phallic rocket in the background and we'll go worry about that for a bit.

Yes, America will be fine. Congratulations. This will not be an issue of integration, as the thinkers in charge of this policy have not actually done thinking on what to do once they get more diverse than european people. When you enter into this without a plan, you leave how this will unfold off the rails :)

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 01:26:48 am

Reaction to this will push Europe in a new direction politically for a while, polarize shit a bit more, blah blah blah. You can tell me I'm wrong once one of the typically stable European countries collapses into Shariah lack-of-law. There might be an atrocity or two, or something that gets spun as one, but it'll blow over with a lot of fuss and clamor.
Politics is one half fearmongering, one third motivational speeches, and one quarter terrible statistics, charts, and graphs. I'm sick of it.

Perhaps if it was a few thousand people. You don't get to undo this, it's permanent. And frankly I'm sick of telling people they're wrong after everything is irreversibly fucked, so I will continue to tell it until it is and when it is I will tell it as is and drop it because it's too late to do anything but watch and maybe damage control (if there's even the will for it). I talked of the rape gangs before and now that they're commonplace there's not much more to add. Well, other than that we had another one come to light in Bradford. That's a bad example, it's still ongoing. I talked of how the EU's policy was going to result in mass migration. I watched as the migration rate jumped up from tens of thousands, to 800,000, to 1.5million to 3million with some catastrophe like the Iraqi dam collapsing, the central Asian water crisis unfolding or anything in Southern Asia or Africa bad happening at the wrong time and  the numbers would be phenomenal. Well, moreso than they are. Now I've got not much else to say about it, as to people it's just numbers and like you they don't want to hear them, I'm still saddened in how I underestimated when I should've been posting the liberal estimates instead. Alas, the most prudent example is how with returning Jihadi fighters - back when it was still possible to catch them, back when the Danes and Swedes were bringing them home and letting them walk in the Schengen area without being monitored, when they were being caught in the Balkans, when they were being caught at Calais (the only two places that even had any border checks at all), I said if Europe did not act then they would end up in a situation where they are powerless to act. And so they have, with all of them having returned home prestigious - as ones who have actually fought and bled for Salafism, not just ones who have baked a cake or sent paypal euros to Syria. I remember a time where the problems we have in the current year were the butt of jokes, the stuff of banter - things that were deemed so outlandish they were assumed to be impossible. Today banter is reality and reality is banter and it will only get worse because too few people of any power care, or else are not supporting this. I envy you because these atrocities are just a few numbers to you. It's too funny :(

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

The fact that people are getting angry about it is what makes me think it will blow over. If it was just kinda going quietly on, that's what would get me worried. If everyone just kinda thought 'oh hey you know it's fine' about this stuff, rather than the backlash, then I would be seriously concerned. Backlash is good. Pain tells you there's something wrong, so you can change your behavior.

But you're saying everything will be fine and your view is not the political minority at all. Telling everyone everything is fine is the name of the game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0uAKrzaoPc) Consider the backlash had in turn, a backlash even larger than the initial movement. There will be no behaviour change, excepting the Eastern Yuropoor countries of course. Seems typical really that the countries least equipped to handle this want to handle it whilst the ones most equipped want to just sit by in apathy and pretend everything will be the same.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

Maybe we just have different definitions of evil. But if your son-in-law's family is pressuring your daughter, the solution doesn't seem to be 'stop the muslims' to me. I've got a different perspective on this, perhaps, but calling a politician racist and calling a politician a communist/socialist are two sides of the same coin in America.

This is not about son-in-laws, this is about gangs of men grooming underage girls with drugs and violence into become sex slaves in the thousands with the authorities on the council, judicial, media and police knowing and complicit for a decade and a half. The gangs have been exclusively Pakistani or Bangladeshi (bar one Somalian) rural Muslims deliberately preying on English girls on the perception that their weakness is proof they are slags and that Pakistani girls must be kept pure for marriage. The solution is both to stop them and ultimately to stop their enablers, as they are just symptomatic of the system they have created, and stopping them without changing the system will mean someone else will take their place (or indeed, they will never be stopped).

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

It feels like the modern equivalent of 'Oh the good old days'. Fuck the time when everyone went to war with everyone else. I'm all for going to war for tyranny, but 'oh no, people don't want to run off and get killed' doesn't seem like a complaint to me.

Hahahaha, this is the folly of reactionaries to think they can go back. No, we are in brave new Europe where we are war with ourselves, and there is no going back. There can only be forward and now. I appreciate the past for what it can teach us, but what matters the most is the good old present. And if you fuck up the good old present, you're going to have a good old future.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

I'm not saying to ignore it, I'm saying to cut through the bullshit. Because there is bullshit. There's bullshit everywhere. You can't escape it. That's one of the few things I'm pessimistic about. Signalling games and bullshit redirection and an endless fucking slog uphill to get any truth out of it, and then you have to figure out what biases you might have in filtering the information so as to make sure you have accurate picture and I just want to deal with the problem directly goddamnit. We're all full of it. That's the worst part. I don't even know how much of what I'm saying is genuinely what I'm hoping to say, and how much is my brain trying to do signalling games or misdirections to make people look stupid when my ego isn't looking. I hate it hate it hate it. But I still have to say it.

Now this is why numbers are useful. Look beyond what the media are telling you and just look at the facts. Say what they mean to you and demarcate what is number and what is opinion. Don't filter your information, just grab as much of it as you can. I do not deny myself the viewpoint of others.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 02:13:30 am

Tradition can go to hell. Forge a new tradition, damn it. Forge a new one with every generation. This is the world that brought us music and the internet and food that doesn't have goddamn maggots in it (we have moths in our garage, which is also our pantry for sealed foodstuffs. We took out the unsealed ones after an incident). This is the world where you aren't drafted to fight a war you have no interest in beyond an abstract love of king and country and maybe some ethnic hatred of those weird Spanish people that don't even speak a proper language like Polish or Lithuanian or Southern Costershire King's Queen's High English. So you know what? If our lives are too comfortable and easy, then good. We fucking won, then. And there's enough people with sense to keep the roof up and the walls in place, even if the door's rusted half shut and the pipes leak. Those will get fixed if you give it some time and effort too. Don't give up, don't give in, but don't turn your frustrations onto arbitrary groups because you figure that's the solution. Don't try to burn the house down in order to get rid of the termites. There's fight in us, and there's a fight to be fought. Maybe it's just not quite the one you think it is. Maybe it is the one you think it is. Finding out which war to fight is the first step. And there's a hell of a lot of wars, with a hell of a lot of soldiers.

For 80 years Europe has spent all of its time divorcing each generation from its roots, keeping each generation's head stuck up its own arse looking only to serve their own wants, their own needs, their own feels. Unsurprisingly we get to a point where the generation most apathetic towards its own long dead traditions are the ones who are willing to give their children's country away. How did Europeans respond to sovereign debt? Poison debt is no problem when it's about current growth, left it for future generations. Its consequences strike now. How did Europeans respond to climate change? Environmental deregulation, opposition to nuclear, no worries it will only be future generations jobless breathing coal fumes. Its consequences strike now. Pensions not being paid because the current generation in the current year didn't produce enough kids? Don't worry, we'll just replace them with migrants without job skills. It's consequences strike now, and are being set up for an even larger fall, an even larger demographic bomb. Do you think the world joins you in abandoning tradition? Perhaps it is easier for America, where already it has eroded what few traditions it had. Yet for Europeans to throw away thousands of years of tradition actually means something. We are not the new world, we are the old world. Our new traditions are forged in the old. When Europeans abandoned thousands of years of tradition and literally opened the door to the Old World, they ensured that in this great void of vapid "current generation" consumerism their ways would attain dominance. My morality is Islamic, my name is Hindi, my home is London and I am the majority. This is the Great Rome without a civilization behind it, and so it is that Europe will be overtaken by those who have not given up their tradition. This generation, the one who has had it all so comfortable, who has added nothing of value to their traditions has deemed itself superior to the endless lines of people that built them their comfy lives and whom depended upon them for future living. And so it is that their children will get everything their parents deserved.
But hey, at least they'll be comforted by the knowledge that their ancestors were too busy sitting comfortable in luxury making pop music to actually care. Because that's really what's important in life. Pop music, internet and food. When you live a life of empty consumerism all that is left after consumption is... Shit.
I'd rather keep on keeping on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 25, 2016, 06:36:01 am

There's also the chance of people becoming more reactionary upon arriving in Europe because of the culture shock, which seems to be pretty common when people migrate to new places.

Quote from: penguinofhonor on March 25, 2016, 05:50:59 am

Europeans talking to Middle Easterners: "Let me explain some things about you about the country you live in."

Europeans talking to Americans: "You don't live here so you really have no idea what you're talking about."

I see how noticed the hypocrisy of your original statement. The difference between the two is, of course, that willfor is just being a dismissive ass trolling for a fight, rolepgeek is just talking about how he feels about the situation, while covenant actually brought a sourced argument for why he doesn't believe it is like chaoticag says.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 06:47:41 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:28:30 am

I look forward to seeing such laws being overturned in the near future, then, if not many people are opposing gay rights over there.
It's actually very encouraging to hear that, given that PEW statistics (http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf) listed a median of 93% Muslims in the Middle East-North Africa area who believe homosexuality is morally wrong. So if UAE is bucking that trend as substantially as your post implies, that's good news for LGBT rights indeed.

I've grown up in one of the more moderate Muslim countries (Malaysia) and one of the stricter Muslim countries (England) and they mostly find homosexuals tolerable (in the true sense of the word tolerance). Very strong morals, very good, a little crazy at times like Prime Minister Najib Razak calling homosexuals enemies of Islam like ISIS
chikkibrkickii

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 10:19:08 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:52:27 am

I can't help but feel like if I woo LW enough, he'll put on his Tennyson hat and write his magnum opus, 'Elegy for the Yuropoors'. And it will be the most tragically beautiful thing ever shitposted.

And then 100 years later liberal arts students take up shitpost degrees and analyze how all of my shitposts are actually multicultural contrapuntal pastiche verisimilitude checking the privilege of the oppressive yuropoor for the finality of time in the next step on determinist marxist time & history criticism, twinned with gender terrorism

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:52:27 am

Too soon :(
Good to know though about Malaysia. Now we know where to go in fifty years when we're starting the pushback; we emigrate over there and start forming our own little communities, until there's a tea shop or a chippy on every corner. We won't learn the language, and we'll constantly talk about Coronation Street and pressure young, impressionable Malaysians into starting to watch it.
Then we start going out en masse in our own clothing. First we start off simple, with the odd fleece, or shorts and hairy, pasty legs. But before long they won't be able to walk down a street without seeing a pale face peering out of the folds of a ratty old cardigan or Christmas jumper.
It will be glorious.

Spoiler: rant on British colonial migration models and the European Union's migration models (click to show/hide)

Nah no need, plus the Malaysian societal model shows how mass immigration can take place, create great economic wealth via cheap labour and not displace the natives permanently as long as the migrants are limited to the urban centres and do not take over the country. It still leads to tension, but less so, they only had about two or three race riots (that's in the past, not likely to happen in the future) and severe endemic corruption (past, present and future, caused by wealthy minorities without political power and political majorities without economic power sharing the same space), which is actually a lot better than they could be doing considering they've been very close or jumped in and out of civil wars and coups. Also they're getting more religiously conservative, but they're still not attacking non-Muslims for now so they're still moderate.
And integration is something that is pretty inevitable for as long as you maintain a majority with migrants who are not isolated and who actually want to integrate, and have something to integrate into. There's two big problems I see, with those who view their countries of destination as sheep to be harvested and those who view them with outright enmity. Malaysians would not mind little Chinatown Britcommunes anymore than they already have them, but if Brits arrived in their millions and started attacking their Islam for not being toleran enough, stealing their shit and enriching their schoolgirls, true jimmy rustling would begin
Also more race riots
It's hilarious to read about how about over 50 years ago the Malay and Hakka were arguing over whether they should protect Malay privilege
WHY DIDN'T THEY CHECK IT
Sounds bad on paper and it is, but again it could be much worse, like in Indonesia where the race riots turned into race war and their Chinese got genocided and their perps are still in power
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21667969-floundering-government-risks-igniting-ethnic-tensions-playing-fire
Sheeeit is tense though. Oh, yeah and on that note of British colonial migration strategies - Malaysia is one of those interesting examples, as I suspect the British strategies have been studied well by the likes of Russia and the EU (not surprising given how many are educated in the UK). For continents like Australia and North America the strategy was pretty simple, displacement and devolution, mass settling of Europeans and displacement of the natives to create a new state with new people, and devolution to stop them from seeking full political independence like the Americans. That one has been in use by humanity since the Babylonians. With India, given how much the people of the Indian continent outnumbered the British the British adopted the strategy the Mughals used and perfected it, using local rivalries, cultural differences (of which there are immense quantities), caste and religious differences e.t.c.
Basically exploit fracture points to maintain division whilst privileging certain groups over others. Like in Cyprus where the Greek Cypriots were put under the charge of the Turkish minority; divide and rule. And today's Western political doctrine is nearly exclusively about exploiting fracture points, pitting woman against man, BAME against Yuropoor, homo toleran against hetero toleran, Palestinians are oppressed supporters vs Jews are oppressed supporters e.t.c.
The only politicians who rise above his are el teflon juan banterist civic nationalists who give zero fucks and smooth over the fracture points the same way Indian nationalism bound so many different people together under one common ambition.
In regards to Malaysia in particular, with the British influence in southern China and their rule over parts of India (and later most), in order to feed labour demands in Malaysia, the British encouraged Indian and Chinese migration to Malaya (as an aside, I am amused reading reports written 200 years ago by British observers believing that Africa would not in fact ultimately belong to Europe or even to Africa, but in fact belong to China once the Chinese emerged from their cultural darkness that treated original thought as an offence. Today they have emerged, and their predictions ring true). This migration was pretty much for straight economic exploitation of cheap labour from people from strict, regimented and orderly societies (self-policing), much in the same way that the EU argued for mass immigration to create a cheap migrant underclass for economic exploitation. But the British Rajahs were of the mindset that they had to protect the natives who had entrusted them with their Kingdom from exploitation, so importing workers was clearly (I seriously don't get this argument?) a better alternative. The thing about that though is that as urban environments increasingly became more important than the countryside, all the Chinese and Indian workers who were formerly given little more regard than Russian serfs, had now become a wealthy mercantile class with advanced Western education, job diversification and social advancement. By the time Malaya became independent there was a large wealth discrepancy between the affluent, skilled and highly educated minorities vs the rural, relatively poorer, traditionalist, islamist natives with all the political power. You can see where that's going, same situation as poor Germans with political power and wealthy Jews without, poor Turks with political power and wealthy Christians without e.t.c.
But it all turned out better than expected and it gave the world Singapore, so yay.

So then looking at the EU what are they doing? Well for starters they're a part of the movements that advocate abandoning your roots and reforging Europe into one state, one people with the mentality Rolepgeek summarized well:
"Tradition can go to hell. Forge a new tradition, damn it. Forge a new one with every generation."
But by attacking its roots, the EU loses its claim to being European and so there is no convergence point the same way the Indians were capable of moving past religious, language and cultural barriers to form one united Indian state. If they had waited and had proved competent and caring for the welfare of Europeans they very well could have got to the point where people did not call them the Commission, but instead called us simply "Europe." But they fucked up.
Encumbered by nationalism the Commission has either ignored them and continued with mass immigration or pursued it as a direct attempt at reducing the nationalists to irrelevance by playing the numbers game with displacement, gambling on migrants lending them their support based off of carefully controlled identity politics. That was certainly the strategy adopted by Labour in the United Kingdom as an attempt to divorce themselves from their working class vote and an attempt to permanently sever the right wing's ability to rule the country, only it resulted in Labour losing both the migrant and working class vote and I don't see the EU not falling for the same mistake. That's the problem with complacency and luxury, you take it all for granted, whilst migrants and the working class had to claw for every inch of ground they gained. It's long been joked that rich purple-haired white girls should be glad that their marxist revolution can't happen, as they'd be first to have their assets repo'd by Commissar Cletus and Jamal. The big EU pillars raise their children to have no loyalty to anything (and if you're really poz'd begin teaching marxist narratives whilst they're young), their parents raise their children to have no loyalty to anything (if they raise them at all or are not just a broken, divorced family because even husband and wife have no loyalty) and so their children grow up without guidance and with serious identity issues (gotta get that while guilt Sweden for all the Finngolians you killed) in an environment full of people who have families, have their traditions, have strong work ethics, strong morals and ambitions unbridled by a fear of their own success. These children will see three paths to walk, suicide, joining the progresiv bandwagon or taking the strong horse offered by migrant conservatives. Just look at who the converts are in Germany, France of UK - they all have commonality in being mostly white, mostly young, mostly women, mostly repulsed by how their own culture offers them nothing but sexual and substance degeneracy alongside vapid materialism.
Speaking from personal experience there's nothing more hilarious than seeing an American drinking beer in an East London bar in a room full of peeps drinking coke - the only thing more hilarious is then seeing that dankyank try to peer pressure em into drinking
All you're doing is making a future in which your children are undisciplined, have no culture, no identity, no community, no morals or ethics, no faith, philosophy or creed, cannot even take refuge in being a majority anymore and cannot compete with newcomers who have achieved more - yet must compete. Loads of unaccomplished youths with no identities and nothing to live for can turn sour pretty quickly. What if the bread and circuses end?

That is of course the EU is using a coherent strategy beyond "more." Certainly in the UK our government and intellectual elite simply ran with the basis that cultural enrichment was necessary and justification would follow after it had been implemented, rather than justification coming from necessity. The SI likewise do not ostensibly show why they pursue mass immigration, beyond the explanation that mass immigration somehow "works" in maintaining border control, which I suspect means their interviews are directed at placating Dutch and Germans and not explaining their motives to their peers publicly. Though from one of their articles addressed to their peers it seems pretty clear they're basic bitch globalists:

Quote

“As small states integrate themselves in a wider world, and even the largest learn how much they need their neighbours’ help to tackle the problems that face them all, the stringently patrolled and narrow-minded conception of history which they once nurtured and which gave them a kind of justification starts to look less plausible and less necessary. Other futures may require other pasts.
The history of the nationalists is all about false continuities and convenient silences, the fictions necessary to tell the story of the rendez-vous of a chosen people with the land marked out for them by destiny. It is an odd and implausible version of the past …”
http://www.esiweb.org/rumeliobserver/2014/10/12/cosmopolitan-visionary-boutaris-and-thessaloniki/

A nice dream. Give me my false continuities, my rendez-vous of a chosen people with the land marked out for them not by destiny, but by toil. My Empire of salt, sand, dirt and limestone, somewhere where globalists cannot sacrifice everyone but themselves for their personal ambitions. To be willing to subvert the democracies and destroy the peoples of a continent over a dream? It's a nightmare. The worst part of it all is these cowards have no loyalty to any nation and so when those nations crumble they merely flee abroad. Pitiful really, the dutiful following the treacherous and the treacherous leaving nothing worth loyalty.

In other news
Austria and Hungary strengthening borders (http://i.imgur.com/BWGaTm6.png) to make Yurop Fortress (http://www.thelocal.at/20160322/austria-consider-fences-at-border-with-hungary). I think they're gonna need more than fences to make a fort
Also the Belgian bombers bumped off to Budapest (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brussels-attacks-paris-bomb-maker-najim-laachraoui-was-one-of-airport-suicide-bombers-a6949306.html)
Sweden with the racism against Lobsters (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/18/invasion-of-the-american-lobsters-sweden-asks-eu-for-help)

Quote

Oversexed, overfed and over here: that, in a nutshell, is what the Swedes think of the American lobster from Maine, New England. It may be much sought after in restaurants but Sweden does not want the American crustacean to darken EU waters in case it spreads diseases and kills off its smaller cousin. The Swedish environment ministry on Friday asked the EU to list the Maine lobster as an invasive species and ban the import of the live creatures.
While the more cynical may see the Swedish move as disguised protectionism, such concerns are not entirely misplaced. Wildlife experts say the American lobster, which may also be slightly larger and different in colour to the native European lobster, brings dangers to European lobsters.

Eurolobster confirmed for exoskeleton-less jellycuck that cannot compete with supersexed Amerilobster

Quote

“They pose several potential risks for native species, competing for space and resources, they can interbreed with local species and produce hybrid species, which we don’t know will be viable or not,” said Dr Paul Stebbing of the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture science.

Hybrid vigour enrich your lobsters

Quote

“If they found 30 American lobsters over eight years, how is that an invasion,” she said.
Casoni also faulted European residents for releasing American lobsters into the wild: “They are the ones breaking the law. We don’t buy European species and let them free.”
Sweden has approached the EU commission, the EU’s executive body, under the EU’s invasive alien species regulation, which came into force last year. Such species are considered to be one of the major causes of biodiversity loss; its cost to the European economy is estimated to be at least €12bn a year in areas such as health care and animal health costs, crop yield losses, fish stock losses and damage to protected species.

mfw EU regulates bioracism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: xxseuzxx on March 25, 2016, 11:18:02 am

(removed)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Toady One on March 25, 2016, 03:57:32 pm

I banned xxseuzxx and pruned the thread after that.  I'm also losing my patience with the broader context of these moderator reports.  When you praise each other for your shitposting abilities, what I get out of that is that you don't value my time and don't value the discourse of the larger community.  If that's the case, you could just go.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:03:49 pm

Especially you british guys since you kind of blur the line between normal posting and shitposting sometimesall the time.

Anyway, theres a bit of a tit-for-tat brewing up between Turkish and EU authorities. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/25/turkish-officials-europe-wanted-to-export-extremists-to-syria

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 25, 2016, 04:10:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:03:49 pm

sometimes

*cough*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 25, 2016, 04:11:58 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 25, 2016, 04:10:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:03:49 pm

sometimes

*cough*

I got an asthma (which I don't even have) attack from that and you only *cough*? You must be tough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:16:08 pm

Okay, you've made your point, I edited it. Though sometimes it's hard to tell when he is shitposting and when he isn't, which is what I mean. Might be the use of british slang, dunno.

I also tried to subtly warn you guys with the 'Overflowing, the shitposting has become!', which wasn't meant as a praise if it did sound like it to Toady One.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 25, 2016, 04:27:24 pm

Well, the Daily Mail proves that old Blighty is also able mess up its Geography. Apparently Brussels is on the French border, and what I always though was my Grandma's flat was in fact a nuclear power plant. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507417/Brussels-bombers-DID-plan-attack-nuclear-power-station-police-uncover-12-hours-footage-jihadists-filmed-outside-plant-director-s-home.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 25, 2016, 04:33:26 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 25, 2016, 04:27:24 pm

Well, the Daily Mail proves that old Blighty is also able mess up its Geography. Apparently Brussels is on the French border, and what I always though was my Grandma's flat was in fact a nuclear power plant. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507417/Brussels-bombers-DID-plan-attack-nuclear-power-station-police-uncover-12-hours-footage-jihadists-filmed-outside-plant-director-s-home.html)

Seems to be corrected.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 25, 2016, 04:36:57 pm

Sneaky Britti! When I checked that article, this was the map:

(https://ssl-ds.static.rtbf.be/article/image/1248x702/b/0/4/c7da2202001ef3739c67954b4c9dbb31-1458911916.png)


Edit: Well, don't shitpost? I mean, it has got to the point where indeed people have been gorifying shitposting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 25, 2016, 04:40:02 pm

The pictures reminded me of CS:GO old Nuke map, which was supposedly somewhere in Germany or something.

Thankfully it got moved into America in recent update so it's all okay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:42:46 pm

Wait, I thought Antwerp was Netherlands? *goes to check wiki*

Edit: NVM. Though Antwerp does have Dutch origins I think. That map does seem to be putting Brussels way down south though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 04:57:01 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 04:34:37 pm

The caveat to that being that myself and LW are two of the more vocal conservative members, while the forum seems to trend towards the left, generally, which I think draws undue attention.

Lol I don't think it does, I got this same scrutiny when I was progresiv

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 04:34:37 pm

Yeah, it probably diminishes thread quality somewhat when LW quotes a large paragraph only to reply with 'Shekel wizards, very cheekibreeki' (though the next paragraph will typically contain more information than I know what to do with), and my own comparison to the Star Wars prequels in this thread that just got deleted probably did little except bring up a lot of painful memories for those of us who paid good money to see them.

u wot

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 18, 2016, 06:16:05 pm

Loudwhispers barely forever shitposts.
Also I feel bad for him posting, what, 10,000 words of well-researched and sourced debate in the FAPER news thread, because he won't get a proper response, only nitpicking and quibbles. Nobody here is going to be convinced by either side of the debate - the EU issue is absolutely one where everyone has already drawn lines in the sand.

I've already done my part towards actually having discourse but pretty consistently every time I've spent a load of time making a well-researched, well-written post I get one sentence replies saying nothing at all
That's not even talking about the passive aggressiveness certain members show each other, I mean there's one at the top of the page but the whole Bernie vs Hillary thing before?

I still get people replying to my posts just to say they ignored them, gets a laff out of me every time, why would you even bother?

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:16:08 pm

Okay, you've made your point, I edited it. Though sometimes it's hard to tell when he is shitposting and when he isn't, which is what I mean. Might be the use of british slang, dunno.

Using slang isn't shitposting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 05:02:03 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 04:57:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 04:16:08 pm

Okay, you've made your point, I edited it. Though sometimes it's hard to tell when he is shitposting and when he isn't, which is what I mean. Might be the use of british slang, dunno.

Using slang isn't shitposting

It can make it sound like shitposting though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:06:19 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2016, 05:02:03 pm

It can make it sound like shitposting though.

If it's a 10k post and it has slang in it, it's very evidently not shitposting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 25, 2016, 05:08:54 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 04:57:01 pm

I've already done my part towards actually having discourse but pretty consistently every time I've spent a load of time making a well-researched, well-written post I get one sentence replies saying nothing at all
That's not even talking about the passive aggressiveness certain members show each other, I mean there's one at the top of the page but the whole Bernie vs Hillary thing before?

I wouldn't say it was completely wasted effort. I can't speak for anyone else, but you've changed my mind on more than one issue, and I've recalled and used information/means of presenting it I've seen here. It just doesn't really feel like a contribution to say "I agree with this post" when I don't really have anything beyond that to add.

---

In other news, European Commission officials have called for the creation of a 'security union' to present a more united front against terrorists and criminals. (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2016/03/24/european-commission-security-union-brussells-terrorist-attack/82210434/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Flying Dice on March 25, 2016, 05:27:35 pm

For what it's worth, LW is about 50% of why my perspective on immigration has shifted as much as it has.

I also have a hard time seeing him as a conservative. Always feels more like a progressive who's as pissed at the morons allegedly on his side as everyone else, but maybe that's just me projecting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 25, 2016, 05:36:57 pm

Yeah, I quite like some LW's post, even if I don't agree with him on a lot of things, and I find some of your posts unreadable. I have more issues with xxseuzxx's brand of saying racist things then pretending he was shitposting. And generally,people praising shitposting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

Thanks Baff, that means something. It's the disagreements that really help you refine and test whether your arguments hold merit, and just as it there isn't much gained by simply saying "I agree with this post" there is even less gained in saying "I disagree with this post" or "tl;dr lol"

Quote from: Baffler on March 25, 2016, 05:08:54 pm

In other news, European Commission officials have called for the creation of a 'security union' to present a more united front against terrorists and criminals. (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2016/03/24/european-commission-security-union-brussells-terrorist-attack/82210434/)

Quote

Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi called Tuesday for a "European pact for freedom and security.”
“Today they hit Belgium, but they also hit the capital of the European Union," Renzi said in a speech, vowing that "it will take months, perhaps years, but we will beat them."

Does Renzi seriously believe this is a threat that can be beat? They flow like oil, spreading out everywhere, and just as prone to combustion. This security Union would have to rely on the French and British security bureaus, meaning they would no doubt demand authority over them. Those bureaus are too much power for Brussels to wield.

Quote

In theory, a security union would help prevent such lapses, but Juncker’s demand was immediately attacked by UK Independence Party MEP Mike Hookem, his party’s defense spokesman, who said: “Juncker must be literally mad if he thinks people will sign up to a security union with the EU after it has shown itself dangerously incompetent on this issue.”

Quite so, the question is still up whether the EU acted out of dogmatism or malice when it hushed the Med murders of the Christian refugees or the return of foreign fighters happening before our eyes. When the Kurds, Arabs and Israelis deterred refugees due to infiltration and suicide bombing, when the Serbs caught ISIS fighters with execution videos on their phones, when fake Turkish passports began appearing in the Balkans? How is it even after ISIS fighters boasted about how the Schengen area and the open door policy the EU pursued made their return home so easy in order to plan their attacks the EU took no responsibility, and instead used their attacks as excuses to centralize more power?

Quote

Alexander Ritzmann, a senior research fellow at the Brandenburg Institute for Society and Security who has worked in the area of counterterrorism for many years, questioned the capacity of the intelligence agencies to address the issues relating to Islamic extremism, religious radicalization and violent extremism.
He said he was “amazed” that 15 years after the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, the West still “did not seem to understand” that terrorism was merely a “tactic” to achieve a specific objective.

Aye, I find it funny things like these. Like people who think Anonymous is a group and not a state of being, or that terrorism is an army that can be defeated, not too different to declaring war on spies. Bit pointless.

Quote

Meanwhile, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has condemned “in the strongest terms” the terrorist attacks.
“Brussels is the home of NATO headquarters and the capital of Belgium and Europe. It is also a symbol of a Europe whole, free and at peace. We will defend our values against the callous acts of those who seek to strike against them. We are resolute in our determination to prevent and defeat terrorism. We will do this by standing together, as open societies and as democracies,” he said.

The capital of Europe? Free? At peace? Terrorism will be stopped with open societies? And why aren't we pursuing democracy if we pay it lip service? Many, many questions, and it seems the obvious answer is Jens is just talking about the Commission's agenda in creating a single state of Europe, capital Brussels, borders open and power centralized. Well, of course given that this is the guy who as Prime Minister of Norway was a staunch advocate of Norwegian EU membership. The fact that he is an inspired disciple of Tony Blair just takes the icing on the cake hahahaha

In the darkest night you see people fly their true colours in the shadows

Quote from: Flying Dice on March 25, 2016, 05:27:35 pm

For what it's worth, LW is about 50% of why my perspective on immigration has shifted as much as it has.
I also have a hard time seeing him as a conservative. Always feels more like a progressive who's as pissed at the morons allegedly on his side as everyone else, but maybe that's just me projecting.

I'd still consider myself progressive if the definition of progressive had not radically changed as of recent times. Maybe progresiv really is useful in defining the difference. I don't think I could be conservative (the party or philosophically) even if I wanted to and I had to stop supporting the likes of the Liberal Democrats or Labour because they had just become too insipid to the point where either purple or blue became by far the most attractive choice.

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 05:14:04 pm

For what it's worth, your lack of paragraphs often infuriates me, and occasionally I'm left mystified when you quote someone talking about about a subject I'm intrigued on and your reply is something mysterious and arcane like 'Lobster haram! Ban all lobster!', but overall, I've learned a hell of a lot from reading your posts and I greatly appreciate the effort you put into making them. Hell, it was reading some of your posts that made me put in the effort to try to source my own arguments thoroughly and develop them a little beyond 'Because nyah!'.

Read the bits preceding lobster enrichment

The lobster bit was just a joke on Sweden, fishing and enrichment narratives mixed together

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 05:14:04 pm

See I didn't want to look dumb replying to Toady's post but sometimes I have no clue what is shitposting and what isn't.

Saying lots of things that exist to perpetuate and mutate memes, not transfer information

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 05:14:04 pm

Also I can't imagine you being progressive, in part because I can't imagine you writing anything that doesn't sound like you should have a title like 'The Crazed Hierophant' as opposed to an actual name.
EDIT: I left half a dozen spelling errors in this thing and they make me feel terrible. Also on reflection, progressive-LW warning us all of a coming Trumpocalypse doesn't seem so impossible.

Well I don't see why you would think that as there is literally nothing wrong with multiculturalism, we should really think of the great benefits to child sexuality development that sexual revolution and diversity will bring to the oppressive homogenous societies of Europe and do you honestly believe the UK can survive without accepting its social responsibilities in housing Eastern Europeans, whom it brutally colonized with Western capitalism against communists just trying to defend themselves from international banking cartels? Come off it, what we really need to do is disband our Regular Army, cease hiring Gurkhas, decommission all of our nuclear weapons and warships (which will be converted into hospital ships), such weapons have no place in a civilized society. We already have the largest foreign aid budget in the world but have we considered accepting more refugees too? How can we say no to someone who wants to live in our country simply because they were not born in the Commonwealth and can't access legal channels, extralegal migrants have needs too and the very definition of discriminating against someone simply because they were born somewhere else is xenophobia, prejudice against foreigners simple as. Oh, maybe we should keep the minesweepers and science vessels, they're still good. Though we should not conduct any oil or mineral exploration in the arctic and we should get China and Russia to agree to not do it too, and why are we even in the Falklands, it should belong to the indigenous natives whom we conquered.
P.s. how is Trump not Hitler?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on March 25, 2016, 06:49:10 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

Quote

Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi called Tuesday for a "European pact for freedom and security.”
“Today they hit Belgium, but they also hit the capital of the European Union," Renzi said in a speech, vowing that "it will take months, perhaps years, but we will beat them."

Does Renzi seriously believe this is a threat that can be beat? They flow like oil, spreading out everywhere, and just as prone to combustion. This security Union would have to rely on the French and British security bureaus, meaning they would no doubt demand authority over them. Those bureaus are too much power for Brussels to wield.

Unifying the organizations would be pretty fucked, but better coordination between European security services probably would be helpful. Sure the French and British partners would be doing most of the heavy lifting but if they've got formalized cooperation with the (currently) less prepared organizations it would give them, at the absolute worst, a better line to get the Belgians or the Dutch or whoever pointed in the right direction. Something makes me think "more cooperation by existing agencies" is not what's meant by this, so it's kind of a moot point, but the idea isn't completely unsalvageable.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

Quote

In theory, a security union would help prevent such lapses, but Juncker’s demand was immediately attacked by UK Independence Party MEP Mike Hookem, his party’s defense spokesman, who said: “Juncker must be literally mad if he thinks people will sign up to a security union with the EU after it has shown itself dangerously incompetent on this issue.”

Quite so, the question is still up whether the EU acted out of dogmatism or malice when it hushed the Med murders of the Christian refugees or the return of foreign fighters happening before our eyes. When the Kurds, Arabs and Israelis deterred refugees due to infiltration and suicide bombing, when the Serbs caught ISIS fighters with execution videos on their phones, when fake Turkish passports began appearing in the Balkans? How is it even after ISIS fighters boasted about how the Schengen area and the open door policy the EU pursued made their return home so easy in order to plan their attacks the EU took no responsibility, and instead used their attacks as excuses to centralize more power?

This is where the problem lies. This thing will probably go through to sink or swim in some with minimal attention.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

Quote

Alexander Ritzmann, a senior research fellow at the Brandenburg Institute for Society and Security who has worked in the area of counterterrorism for many years, questioned the capacity of the intelligence agencies to address the issues relating to Islamic extremism, religious radicalization and violent extremism.
He said he was “amazed” that 15 years after the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers in New York, the West still “did not seem to understand” that terrorism was merely a “tactic” to achieve a specific objective.

Aye, I find it funny things like these. Like people who think Anonymous is a group and not a state of being, or that terrorism is an army that can be defeated, not too different to declaring war on spies. Bit pointless.

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:44:19 pm

I'm very, very skeptical of this 'Security Union' thing. Much of the good that could come from it, we already do without it. And it's not as if if we just kill enough radicals, they'll all decide to pack up, go home, and stop being radical. It doesn't work that way. We need robust defences, certainly, but we also need to get a real grip on our foreign policy with regard to the Arab world, and I don't mean just ignoring it until we can't afford to. This Syrian shit where we've effectively, now that Russia have come in, been propping up both sides of a civil war, is schizophrenic.

I know Murrica is just as guilty of this kind of thinking, hell we invented it, but the intelligence community knows it isn't a useful attitude. (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/top-security-expert-treating-everyone-like-a-potential-terrorist-weakens-our-ability-to-protect-america.html) Sure some of them couldn't be happier to have more power, but I can always get a laugh out of things like this. It reminds me of the hundreds of Abrams tanks the army doesn't want but Congress makes them buy so they can keep the factory that builds them open. Not helpful for the mission, but certainly helpful for the people running it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 25, 2016, 06:49:50 pm

TBPH, I stopped reading LW's posts for the most part - but I've never reported them (our any of you folks). After all, I don't know for sure whether my perspective and beliefs are accurate, whether yours are, or whether the truth lies elsewhere (and if so, where).

I run into three problems with LW's posts: First I tl;dr on postnoughts, then I fail at understanding paragraphs composed of what looks like jibber-jabber, then if I do see something that doesn't match the world as it appears to me, it feels like it takes entirely too long to try to find out whether or not it's just a conspiracy theory, especially when it doesn't even affect me.

Anywho, typing stuff on phone wastes tons of time too. :V

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 07:02:27 pm

I too, must express that Loud Whispers posts can get a bit cryptic sometimes... That's why I posted "TL;DR: Go home Loud Whispers, you are drunk.".

Loud Whispers, would you take the effort to explain some of the words you use? I can get that youropoor is some random meme or joke for Europe, but what is guac?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 25, 2016, 07:03:05 pm

Terrorism does not "need to be stopped" in Europe, because Terrorism is not a major problem in Europe.

No seriously, if it wasn't for the disproportionate media attention that the select few successful terrorist attacks get more than 99.99999% of Europeans would be in no way affected by terrorism. 

Just let the security agencies do their job and continue to eradicate IS in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 07:10:15 pm

Reminds me of that one american soldier baffled by how many pairs of boots he kept getting given, 3 pairs of boots on a monthly basis even though he was still wearing his first pair and there was nothing wrong with them

Also that one joke about how the US soldier talking to the Russian soldiers begins talking about how much more funding the US Army gets and how they get 5k calories of food a day and the Russian soldier blurts out "that's impossible, no man can eat that much potato."

Going back, consider the consequences of the EU gaining authority over the British or French security bureaus (or heavens forbid, both). The Scandinavian ones are good but small, the Belgian ones small, legally limited and mired in the political finagling of their unusual governance, and the Germans and Dutch have been using private companies to trawl social media for dissidents already, I don't want to know what Brussels would be capable of if it managed to gain control over the mass surveillance capabilities of one of the five eyes without any constitutional limits or oversight at all. Even if they "only" gain control over France's sophisticated security bureaus, the potential to use France's heightened security state sanctioned powers being used against Europeans living in other countries who voted against these measures in their home country will be as all other resources, powers and sovereignties the EU has taken - "common."

Much better to keep cooperation between the effective bureaus who are uncompromised and the relevant local authorities who will execute arrests, if they can even find the blood buggers happily running around Merkel's Europe :/

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:44:19 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

Well I don't see why...
P.s. how is Trump not Hitler?

Not even gonna comment on this unholiness over than to say that it makes you literally Shitler.

This is not even my final form
Jeremy Corbyn was right
The UK must dissolve
Make the Republic equal again

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 06:44:19 pm

I'm very, very skeptical of this 'Security Union' thing. Much of the good that could come from it, we already do without it. And it's not as if if we just kill enough radicals, they'll all decide to pack up, go home, and stop being radical. It doesn't work that way. We need robust defences, certainly, but we also need to get a real grip on our foreign policy with regard to the Arab world, and I don't mean just ignoring it until we can't afford to. This Syrian shit where we've effectively, now that Russia have come in, been propping up both sides of a civil war, is schizophrenic.

Also making a border with Syria was a very clever move and whoever stabilized Europe with this brilliant idea should get a medal, bravo nolan
That was sarcasm hehe, doesn't help if terrorists have literally been having pleasant strolls through the European countryside unopposed home. OR IF DANES AND SWEDES WOULD STOP BRINGING THEM BACK

Quote from: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 07:02:27 pm

Loud Whispers, would you take the effort to explain some of the words you use? I can get that youropoor is some random meme or joke for Europe, but what is guac?

Guacamole (Spanish: [wakaˈmole]; or[ɡwakaˈmole]; can informally be referred to as "guac" in North America) is an avocado-based dip or salad first created by the Aztecs in what is now Mexico. In addition to its use in modern Mexican cuisine, it has also become part of American cuisine as a dip, condiment and salad ingredient. Guacamole dip is traditionally made by mashing ripe avocados and sea salt with a molcajete (mortar and pestle). Some recipes call for tomato, onion, garlic, lemon or lime juice, chili or cayenne pepper, coriander or basil, jalapeño, and/or additional seasonings. Some non-traditional recipes call for sour cream as the main ingredient. Guacamole is also a word for avocado in some areas in Latin America.

Quote from: Antioch on March 25, 2016, 07:03:05 pm

Terrorism does not "need to be stopped" in Europe, because Terrorism is not a major problem in Europe.
No seriously, if it wasn't for the disproportionate media attention that the select few successful terrorist attacks get more than 99.99999% of Europeans would be in no way affected by terrorism. 
Just let the security agencies do their job and continue to eradicate IS in Syria, Iraq and Libya.

Hahahahahahahahahah
The primary damage is not to kill, but to inflict as much damage and disruption as possible and the media covering their eyes would just make things worse (as if they're not apologetic enough, the filthy gits). And we're not even talking about whether this is just a symptom of as Merkel puts it lovingly, losing the "social core" :)
That's why terrorists got clever in Europe, targeting travel infrastructure and entertainment centres. Sneaky breeki jihadis...!

But lol "terrorism does not need to be stopped", it'd be bad enough if they were just mass murderers but they have political ambitions to :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on March 25, 2016, 07:22:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

I'd still consider myself progressive if the definition of progressive had not radically changed as of recent times. Maybe progresiv really is useful in defining the difference. I don't think I could be conservative (the party or philosophically) even if I wanted to and I had to stop supporting the likes of the Liberal Democrats or Labour because they had just become too insipid to the point where either purple or blue became by far the most attractive choice.

Are you kidding? You've been raving like Fred Phelps about the effete weakness and moral degeneracy of European civilization for the last few pages, and you don't even think you could be a conservative? 

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 10:19:08 am

The big EU pillars raise their children to have no loyalty to anything (and if you're really poz'd begin teaching marxist narratives whilst they're young), their parents raise their children to have no loyalty to anything (if they raise them at all or are not just a broken, divorced family because even husband and wife have no loyalty) and so their children grow up without guidance and with serious identity issues (gotta get that white guilt Sweden for all the Finngolians you killed) in an environment full of people who have families, have their traditions, have strong work ethics, strong morals and ambitions unbridled by a fear of their own success. These children will see three paths to walk, suicide, joining the progresiv bandwagon or taking the strong horse offered by migrant conservatives. Just look at who the converts are in Germany, France of UK - they all have commonality in being mostly white, mostly young, mostly women, mostly repulsed by how their own culture offers them nothing but sexual and substance degeneracy alongside vapid materialism.

Quote

LOYALTY MARXIST LOYALTY BROKEN DIVORCED FAMILY HUSBAND AND WIFE LOYALTY IDENTITY ISSUES WHITE GUILT FAMILIES TRADITIONS WORK ETHICS MORALS AMBITIONS SUCCESS CONSERVATIVES REPULSED SEXUAL DEGENERACY MATERIALISM

You're Conservatively Correct^TM enough to deliver a keynote at CPAC.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 07:37:54 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on March 25, 2016, 07:22:34 pm

Are you kidding? You've been raving like Fred Phelps about the effete weakness and moral degeneracy of European civilization for the last few pages, and you don't even think you could be a conservative?

Yes
I'm not talking about conservation of anything and my conservatives support this

Quote from: SirQuiamus on March 25, 2016, 07:22:34 pm

Quote

LOYALTY MARXIST LOYALTY BROKEN DIVORCED FAMILY HUSBAND AND WIFE LOYALTY IDENTITY ISSUES WHITE GUILT FAMILIES TRADITIONS WORK ETHICS MORALS AMBITIONS SUCCESS CONSERVATIVES REPULSED SEXUAL DEGENERACY MATERIALISM

You're Conservatively Correct^TM enough to deliver a keynote at CPAC.

Ew stop culturally appropriating PC memes

Quote from: Covenant on March 25, 2016, 07:29:07 pm

The comparison with Fred Phelps rings quite hollow when any 'degeneracy' he calls out seems to be a lack of loyalty to one's constituents and countrymen, a lack of respect for the hardships and achievements of one's forebears, and a lack of vision or concern for one's country's future. I certainly haven't seen him raging about the evils of homosexuality or pre-marital sex, at least.

Stop being sensible and actually reading what I said, you should be painting strawdoods of me for ebin signalling

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 08:32:04 pm

Nah, but the sexual deviancy/degeneration bit showed up in the talks I had to exit from when we were discussing incest&co. laws previously.

You speak like a conservative preacher, even if you don't hold the views of one, Loud Whispers. A very meme-positive conservative preacher, but one nonetheless. Just need more Jeebus and/or Reagan references. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 09:16:23 pm

I know what is guacamole... I know about Latin America culture... I even speak Spanish...
/me goes away to a corner complain about never being understood
Communicating is hard...

I was asking what you meant to say by guac. Is that some kind of offense?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smirk on March 25, 2016, 09:55:50 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 09:16:23 pm

I know what is guacamole... I know about Latin America culture... I even speak Spanish...
/me goes away to a corner complain about never being understood
Communicating is hard...

I was asking what you meant to say by guac. Is that some kind of offense?

From a previous LW post...

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Just guac my shit up fam it's guaced, it's gonna get more guaced and it's all because yuropoors are dogmatically entrenched from the bottom to the top to guac all day
>belgians

...you could replace every instance of 'guac' in that sentence with 'fuck' and I'm pretty sure the meaning would stay exactly the same. With the possible exception of "to guac all day", which might be closer to "to fuck around all day". It's best not to worry too hard about pinning down specific definitions for those kinds of words. There'll be a new and edgier one in a week or so, and the only important part about them is that they're all ambiguously offensive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 10:56:55 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 08:32:04 pm

Nah, but the sexual deviancy/degeneration bit showed up in the talks I had to exit from when we were discussing incest&co. laws previously.
You speak like a conservative preacher, even if you don't hold the views of one, Loud Whispers. A very meme-positive conservative preacher, but one nonetheless. Just need more Jeebus and/or Reagan references. :P

Are conservative preachers literally the only people saying necrophilia and incest are bad in the states? Nah I don't believe that
Unless US progresiv really has degenerated alongside Stockholm, Frankfurt, Paris and London... I do recall actually trying to imitate evangelical megapreachers as a joke but that shit is hard or else everyone would do it, it's top ham
I think I'll just stick with top haram, I am a firm believer in progress, not regress and certainly not degeneration generation after generation. We lack charismatic, high energy figures that ham it up on TV, preferring to keep things controlled yet not necessarily calm, despite what that bloody propaganda poster commands. It might just have to do with how little sunlight we get, or the culture of temperateness still stubbornly refuses to die, even in the capital of excess. Can't PRAISE THE SUN when you got no sun

Quote from: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 09:16:23 pm

I know what is guacamole... I know about Latin America culture... I even speak Spanish...
/me goes away to a corner complain about never being understood
Communicating is hard...
I was asking what you meant to say by guac. Is that some kind of offense?

Well it calls upon cross-pond meming from Jeb Bush's politics and dismal campaign which has had a lot of global "input," that and guac obviously rhymes with black and I wanted to picture Johnny Cash singing about a suit of guac, imagine Brendon just guacing my shit up fam, it also half rhymes with fuck and half rhymes with cuck so that also makes it sound more offensive, and of course guac is guac, it's one of those words where the more you say it the less it sounds like it exists. That's about as deep as you can read into the meanings of guac

It's the one word equivalent of "your mother stacks shelves in Morrisons." Nothing about it is offensive but it sounds incredibly edgy because it flows so well and sounds accusatory of something bad
So I'd say it falls into the line of things that are euphemistically offensive but it's in this guac area of ambiguity, to me it is just the epitome of globalist politics holding hands with people forced into the chopping block just to walk into dismal failure

Might be looking too far into this as guac is guac but those are all the possible influences, and language is nothing but a series of meanings justifying meaning with itself in an endless guac mixer of eternity
How can you understand guac if you have not become the guac (http://i.imgur.com/QHHhePq.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 11:28:30 pm

Nah I'm not Cockney, I'm of the Estuary variety and I can't speak Cockney rhyming slang with any skill sadly and it's something you can only learn from speaking it, as the English language is convoluted enough without more convoluted arbitrary rhyme rules. Cockney culture, people and slang are pretty much gone, though I think it will live on a bit in financial cliques since a lot of Cockney brokers use it to talk about stuff that is *probably* compliant with law in front of others without them knowing
The rhyming slang would also force a clearer definition of guac's usage in what guac bowl would have to rhyme with, and you'd have to use it as a proper noun but only as guac
The only thing we share in common is that most of the slang is made on the fly by and by

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/IUxvoBR.jpg)

Anyways these are the market stalls outside whitechapel, one of the few places in the world where you'll find someone selling burkas next door to the lingerie merchant and the fruit merchant
Not a lick of cockney at all
Its influences will not disappear though, the slang might be kept up by people interested in it and its certainly left its mark on Estuary just as Estuary's doing what the SE does and blob through the UK just as Parisians Parisified France. Only we do it slower for some reason, must be all the hills everywhere

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 03:02:27 am

I don't see the EU "getting control" of the French security bureau. Just doesn't make sense when you look at the way other security-related EU stuff are managed, the EU just doesn't randomly grab institutions from member states. Realistically, we can probably expect a Frontex-like agency which mostly helps various security services cooperate but doesn't do field work. Maybe maintain database of known terror suspects, that kind of things. And I'd love to see Loud Whisper explain to me how that can be anything but a positive step. :)

As much as I'd love to get a real EU-wide intelligence agency, there is nothing in the current treaties that would allow giving police power to the EU.

Also, when on Earth did the Commission hush the drowning of Christian in the med? That thing was all over the news, and it's not like the Commission got a censorship bureau. Same for all the other things the Commission was supposedly hushing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 26, 2016, 04:00:59 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 03:02:27 am

I don't see the EU "getting control" of the French security bureau. Just doesn't make sense when you look at the way other security-related EU stuff are managed, the EU just doesn't randomly grab institutions from member states. Realistically, we can probably expect a Frontex-like agency which mostly helps various security services cooperate but doesn't do field work. Maybe maintain database of known terror suspects, that kind of things. And I'd love to see Loud Whisper explain to me how that can be anything but a positive step. :)

As much as I'd love to get a real EU-wide intelligence agency, there is nothing in the current treaties that would allow giving police power to the EU.

Also, when on Earth did the Commission hush the drowning of Christian in the med? That thing was all over the news, and it's not like the Commission got a censorship bureau. Same for all the other things the Commission was supposedly hushing.

Hushing=not promoting. If something's not being covered by a place that's supposedly meant to cover based on whatever expectations, real or imagined, it's considered hushing. If you go with that attitude, then a lot of what LW is saying becomes a lot more coherent. Insufficient support=negligent opposition, no matter what side you're talking about. Even dank memes. Vice versa, too; insufficient opposition=tacit support, obviously.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 10:56:55 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 25, 2016, 08:32:04 pm

Nah, but the sexual deviancy/degeneration bit showed up in the talks I had to exit from when we were discussing incest&co. laws previously.
You speak like a conservative preacher, even if you don't hold the views of one, Loud Whispers. A very meme-positive conservative preacher, but one nonetheless. Just need more Jeebus and/or Reagan references. :P

Are conservative preachers literally the only people saying necrophilia and incest are bad in the states? Nah I don't believe that
Unless US progresiv really has degenerated alongside Stockholm, Frankfurt, Paris and London... I do recall actually trying to imitate evangelical megapreachers as a joke but that shit is hard or else everyone would do it, it's top ham
I think I'll just stick with top haram, I am a firm believer in progress, not regress and certainly not degeneration generation after generation. We lack charismatic, high energy figures that ham it up on TV, preferring to keep things controlled yet not necessarily calm, despite what that bloody propaganda poster commands. It might just have to do with how little sunlight we get, or the culture of temperateness still stubbornly refuses to die, even in the capital of excess. Can't PRAISE THE SUN when you got no sun

No but they're the only ones talking about moral degeneracy while they're doing it, and about the scandalous youth and how good it was back when everyone was a proper, patriotic, commie-hating god-fearing Reagan-loving American, while chastising the modern state for considering making sexual deviancy (in this case, teh gay) legal. That is why you sound like 'em. Complain about political incorrectness of using homosexuality in this context all you want, it's still true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 04:18:25 am

Yeah, except LW never explained why the Commission was supposed to cover it, which is why his point is so strange to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 26, 2016, 04:53:05 am

Quote from: LW

Guac obviously rhymes with black
Whitechapel

In the original accent? Also, aha, evidence of your true identity: Jack the Ripper!

P.S. I live in North Amiga America, and you're the only person I've ever seen say "guac," mate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 26, 2016, 05:26:14 am

Two days after the Brussels attack, late thursday evening, a security guard working at a nuclear power plant was killed in Charleroi, while walking his dog. His security access badge is missing.
Belgian authorities have said that the Brussels terrorists were originally planning to attack nuclear power plants, but that the arrest of Abdeslam rushed them into preliminary action. One of the dead perpetrators was the same guy that used video surveillence to spy on the director of the Belgian nuclear research program.
Hours of video tape were confiscated when police raided the hideout of Mohammed Bakkali, another member of the same terror cell.

But with this security guard's death, it looks like they didn't catch all the terrorists planning a nuclear strike yet. Nuclear power plants will continue to be minimally staffed, and guarded with heavy military prescence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 05:29:45 am

Belgium is set to vote to allow house search between 21h and 5h in terrorist cases. They were previously not allowed except for drug cases, leading suspects to set their alarm at 4:00 and change hideouts before the police could come in.  (http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/detail_les-perquisitions-24h-24-et-la-banque-de-donnees-combattants-etrangers-bientot-au-vote?id=9252334) I'm not even kidding.

Edit: I'd wait for confirmation for that security guard stuff. The only source is the Dernière Heure, which is our local rag, somewhere between the Daily Mail and News of the World as far as reliability go. I can't find anything on the reputable news outlet yet, but then they tend to await confirmation before rushing a piece of "news".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 26, 2016, 05:45:41 am

Quote from: Magistrum on March 25, 2016, 09:16:23 pm

I know what is guacamole... I know about Latin America culture... I even speak Spanish...
/me goes away to a corner complain about never being understood
Communicating is hard...

I was asking what you meant to say by guac. Is that some kind of offense?

It also seems to be a borrowed NA thing ( Mexicans = immigrants guacamole = Mexican , US up takes guacamole  = cultural integration = immigrant takeover )

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 26, 2016, 06:36:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 26, 2016, 05:26:14 am

Two days after the Brussels attack, late thursday evening, a security guard working at a nuclear power plant was killed in Charleroi, while walking his dog. His security access badge is missing.
Belgian authorities have said that the Brussels terrorists were originally planning to attack nuclear power plants, but that the arrest of Abdeslam rushed them into preliminary action. One of the dead perpetrators was the same guy that used video surveillence to spy on the director of the Belgian nuclear research program.
Hours of video tape were confiscated when police raided the hideout of Mohammed Bakkali, another member of the same terror cell.

But with this security guard's death, it looks like they didn't catch all the terrorists planning a nuclear strike yet. Nuclear power plants will continue to be minimally staffed, and guarded with heavy military prescence.

I have no idea if they could even pull off an attack on a nuclear power plant. Those are pretty heavily guarded and messing with the controls of the plant or causing damage severely enough to cause the plant to meltdown requires expert knowledge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 06:51:46 am

I still don't see any mention of that dead security guard on other websites, but reading the DH's own article they do mention that security services apparently tried to hush things up, so it's possible the other website are just better at respecting instructions than the DH. And before you go about the Lügenpresse protecting muslims or whatever, keep in mind that if the info in that article is true, they suspect the badge was stolen, but they deactivated it. So now they just have to wait for the killer to show up at the plant with a non-working badge and catch him there, so it make sense not to publicize the fact that they're aware it was stolen and planned for it.

Thanks for ruining everything again DH.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 26, 2016, 09:32:26 am

It reached reuters, and got shot down:

Quote from: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belgium-blast-nuclear-idUSKCN0WS09E

Two days after bomb attacks at Brussels airport and on a packed metro killed 31 people and injured hundreds, a security guard who worked at a Belgian nuclear site was killed but the local prosecutor on Saturday ruled out any militant link.

The Charleroi prosecutor's office also denied media reports that his security pass had been stolen and been de-activated as soon as investigators raised the alarm, public broadcaster VTM said.

The office declined to comment when contacted by Reuters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 26, 2016, 09:35:59 am

Why would anyone attack Belgium?  the only evil thing about Belgium is that their chockolate  tastes like it is made from mix of poo, dead roaches and urine.
After this attack this is the first time Belgium even appears in news. Belgium is so insignificant, that you can just leave it as blank space on europe map.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 09:41:08 am

Because they were on the run, wanting to go out with a boom and couldn't exactly go to France for that, Schengen or not. Also we are part of the coalition bombing Daesh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 11:25:06 am

Charlie Hebdo got a cartoon on the Brussels attack. I lol'd. :p (So yeah, it's not just you Russians friends)

(https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12417737_1123396377694274_8491639263535645622_n.jpg?oh=03b2ce05782715e16f185ee89412b6fb&oe=5781CA28)"After the shock, the complaints of the Belgian commuters"
"Always late!"
"Anyone saw my suitcase?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 26, 2016, 11:29:37 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on March 26, 2016, 09:35:59 am

Why would anyone attack Belgium?  the only evil thing about Belgium is that their chockolate  tastes like it is made from mix of poo, dead roaches and urine.
After this attack this is the first time Belgium even appears in news. Belgium is so insignificant, that you can just leave it as blank space on europe map.

Relevant. (http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Kill-All-Belgians-Genocide/dp/1500142921)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 26, 2016, 01:23:03 pm

There is some strange irony in how american politics on the east blows up nato members

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 26, 2016, 06:23:58 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 06:51:46 am

I still don't see any mention of that dead security guard on other websites, but reading the DH's own article they do mention that security services apparently tried to hush things up, so it's possible the other website are just better at respecting instructions than the DH. And before you go about the Lügenpresse protecting muslims or whatever, keep in mind that if the info in that article is true, they suspect the badge was stolen, but they deactivated it. So now they just have to wait for the killer to show up at the plant with a non-working badge and catch him there, so it make sense not to publicize the fact that they're aware it was stolen and planned for it.

Thanks for ruining everything again DH.

I know that feeling...
Now imagine that kind of journalists during a war. They happily disclose military secrets and then scream about freedom of speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 27, 2016, 10:05:03 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 06:51:46 am

I still don't see any mention of that dead security guard on other websites, but reading the DH's own article they do mention that security services apparently tried to hush things up, so it's possible the other website are just better at respecting instructions than the DH. And before you go about the Lügenpresse protecting muslims or whatever, keep in mind that if the info in that article is true, they suspect the badge was stolen, but they deactivated it. So now they just have to wait for the killer to show up at the plant with a non-working badge and catch him there, so it make sense not to publicize the fact that they're aware it was stolen and planned for it.

Thanks for ruining everything again DH.

Nah, it turned out most of the story was false.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2016, 11:17:27 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 26, 2016, 06:23:58 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 26, 2016, 06:51:46 am

I still don't see any mention of that dead security guard on other websites, but reading the DH's own article they do mention that security services apparently tried to hush things up, so it's possible the other website are just better at respecting instructions than the DH. And before you go about the Lügenpresse protecting muslims or whatever, keep in mind that if the info in that article is true, they suspect the badge was stolen, but they deactivated it. So now they just have to wait for the killer to show up at the plant with a non-working badge and catch him there, so it make sense not to publicize the fact that they're aware it was stolen and planned for it.

Thanks for ruining everything again DH.

I know that feeling...
Now imagine that kind of journalists during a war. They happily disclose military secrets and then scream about freedom of speech.

That actually happened?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on March 27, 2016, 11:21:54 am

Did you notice his name? #CaptainObvious

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 27, 2016, 11:49:58 am

Sure it happened. Nowadays it is not as common but in 2014\early 2015 we had a lot of stuff like "Unit X arrived to city Y" or "unit Z has no enough anti-tank weapons" or "enemy artillery strike was successful and we lost that that many soldiers and such equipment" in open press.

Should anyone criticize them for doing so they go "Corrupt military officials want to shut our mouths to hide how bad our army is!" mode.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2016, 04:47:09 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-gets-serious-with-eurovision-song-contest-entry-jamala-crimea/

Would be funny in a way if Ukraine won EuroVision.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 27, 2016, 07:37:55 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 27, 2016, 11:49:58 am

Sure it happened. Nowadays it is not as common but in 2014\early 2015 we had a lot of stuff like "Unit X arrived to city Y" or "unit Z has no enough anti-tank weapons" or "enemy artillery strike was successful and we lost that that many soldiers and such equipment" in open press.

Should anyone criticize them for doing so they go "Corrupt military officials want to shut our mouths to hide how bad our army is!" mode.

Eh. Yeah. Problem is that when you don't let anyone report on the war, no one's there to speak up about the crimes. Least not if the soldiers are well trained.

Either way you run it, someone's boned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 28, 2016, 07:24:08 am

It almost seems like war is awful all around. Never would have guessed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 28, 2016, 08:03:01 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 27, 2016, 07:37:55 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 27, 2016, 11:49:58 am

Sure it happened. Nowadays it is not as common but in 2014\early 2015 we had a lot of stuff like "Unit X arrived to city Y" or "unit Z has no enough anti-tank weapons" or "enemy artillery strike was successful and we lost that that many soldiers and such equipment" in open press.

Should anyone criticize them for doing so they go "Corrupt military officials want to shut our mouths to hide how bad our army is!" mode.

Eh. Yeah. Problem is that when you don't let anyone report on the war, no one's there to speak up about the crimes. Least not if the soldiers are well trained.

Either way you run it, someone's boned.

Reporting in the war is possible. Just give a few days for units to relocate before running your news story, or keep detailed position out of your article.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 28, 2016, 08:55:51 am

The most delicate thing is reporting own causalities. Sure, no one wants to be Russia who don't care about their own dead but immediate reporting of causalities is an idiocy bordering treason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 28, 2016, 12:32:25 pm

*posting this is probably a very bad idea, but well, here goes*
EDIT: It was a bad idea. Putting all under the spoiler, to avoid polluting the "friendly and polite" space.

Spoiler: trigger warning: rage, anger, suffering (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 28, 2016, 08:55:51 am

The most delicate thing is reporting own causalities. Sure, no one wants to be Russia who don't care about their own dead but immediate reporting of causalities is an idiocy bordering treason.

I think by "Russia" you really meant "Ukraine", given the way Ukraine has been drafting and sending under shells the most economically and politically active part of population, with only the most basic of training, despite the past claims that "60% of Ukraine's army consists of professional troops", circa 2013, Yanukovich's statement (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2013/10/03/Ukraine-to-end-military-conscription-after-autumn-call-ups/95521380772920/). Unlike, you know, Russia, that actually uses its professional formations up front, with far better efficiency than Ukraine could ever hope to reach (because, as we know by this point, Ukraine has never actually won an engagement with Russian forces in which the Russian forces wanted to win).

Also, oppressing freedom of speech by citing "treason"? Very Soviet-like. You know, modern Ukraine reminds me of USSR quite a lot, actually, and your previous statements that, paraphrased, say that "journalists are the enemy, because they tell people things that they shouldn't tell" and "traitors must be shot on sight by the conscious citizens/"new militia" with no trial, since a trial may acquit the traitor due to unreliability of judges" and etc, are very in line with what an average Soviet Party functionary would say when dealing with some state that has just recently been conquered by local communists and thus is still considered to be full of "capitalist dogs". The polarity is reversed, but the key attitudes are the same.

This to me seems to be the main tragedy of Maidan, and the Ukrainian state in general - it would be good if it was actually, you know, aiming to create a more European state. But in reality, what it does is bringing out the worst traits of Soviet Union, repainting them in a different color, so that it looks, at the first sight, as anti-Soviet, and just keeps doing the same bad things, over and over.

The corruption in Ukraine, the very reason why Maidan has gathered and what it aimed to reduce or eliminate altogether after the revolution, is stronger than ever, and there's no evidence that this will change any time soon. Or if there is even any way for it to change without mass shooting a significant portion of country's government apparatus, party members, oligarchs, just plain rich businessmen, notorious "field commanders", and just anyone more-or-less influential - which would obviously create something more in line with Mao Zedong's China, rather than a European state.

And that's just one issue. There are many, many more, including the non-competitive production, the ever-increasing foreign debt, the non-functional government (which is loosely related to the issue of corruption, but the sheer dysfunctionality of that mess makes it something else), the incredibly high and growing public distrust of said government (Yatsenuk, a head of Ukrainian parliament, is in single digits and is universally disliked, to a point of having an impeachment attempt against him (that failed because Ukrainian government is a dysfunctional corrupt mess); Poroshenko doesn't fare much better). These issues do not posit any kind of good outlook on the future of Ukrainian state.

And you know what's the most bad part about this is? An average response of an Ukrainian here would be "but all of these issues are even worse in Russia, according to our totally impartial and truthful media outlets, and that totally makes it OK, because the only thing that matters is that we, Ukraine, are better than Russia!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 28, 2016, 12:49:02 pm

Oh, Sergarr, I love you. With Knit Tie departing from the Eurothread, I was afraid we wouldn't have a Putinbot here anymore. :) But you deliver.

"because, as we know by this point, Ukraine has never actually won an engagement with Russian forces in which the Russian forces wanted to win"
 
Such a great statement! Cannot be disproved, because any engagement won by Ukraine would just be one you didn't really want to win anyway. <3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 28, 2016, 01:02:42 pm

EDIT: continuing the cleansement of the thread

Spoiler: trigger warning: Russia, army, comparisons (click to show/hide)

OK, yeah, the choice of words is rather poor I'd say

But still, can you name any engagement which Russia or pro-Russian forces have won in Ukraine? I bet you can name at least two very large ones, Ilovaysk and Debaltzevo. Now, can you name any engagement that Ukraine has won against Russia, outside of Slavyansk (which was, in hindsight, a failed operation of FSB to provide conditions for general Russian assault on Ukraine, that has failed due to Putin deciding against it after the FSB's curators have already committed the forces) and stuff like "we totally killed dozens of Russian tanks/Pskov's paratroopers/Buryats every day for several months, we totally swear that we didn't make this up"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on March 28, 2016, 01:07:40 pm

I cannot fathom why that is the one thing you are talking about now. It's really a kind of inconsequential statement, pure posturing. Why should I care which side kills people more efficiently?

This here seems way more interesting:

Quote

Also, oppressing freedom of speech by citing "treason"? Very Soviet-like. You know, modern Ukraine reminds me of USSR quite a lot, actually, and your previous statements that, paraphrased, say that "journalists are the enemy, because they tell people things that they shouldn't tell" and "traitors must be shot on sight by the conscious citizens/"new militia" with no trial, since a trial may acquit the traitor due to unreliability of judges" and etc, are very in line with what an average Soviet Party functionary would say when dealing with some state that has just recently been conquered by local communists and thus is still considered to be full of "capitalist dogs". The polarity is reversed, but the key attitudes are the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 28, 2016, 01:43:46 pm

EDIT: I did put words into UR's mouth, I'm so sorry, everyone.

Spoiler: trigger warning: putting words into UR's mouth (click to show/hide)

Oh, and before anyone accuses me of putting words in UR's mouth about that second sentence, here's the evidence of UR's extremely hostile attitudes towards judicial system (and some praise towards "conscious citizens"/"new militia" that would "deal with the problem"), bold mine:

Quote from: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145400.3090

Does hanging each and every Ukrainian judge counts as a plan?

To be serious I am not a professional in economics but logic says - look at successful reforms and copypaste it. Ukraine is not the first country that is facing this decease.

+ Social awareness, fighting against corruption on all levels by all necessary means. From peaceful protests and media campaigns to "accidents" with some politicians

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on February 01, 2016, 08:16:13 am

Almost two years since Maidan won. What changed in Ukraine under Maidan's government?
...
2) Start of police reform. City after city gets new patrol police. Formed from new young people right from the streets they get few months of training and start patrolling. "Somehow" they do the job better than "professionals with years of experience". Streets are getting safer
...
The bad:

1) Lack of Justice... Corrupted scum that stole millions, people responsible for Maidan crimes, traitors that assisted Russian aggression are free and happy. Judges and persecutors are the same shit as they always were. Reforms in this sphere are more like empty words than any real change.
2) Economy is going down, down, down. It is hard to expect something else during the war but combined with the lack of justice  it causes dissent. A lot of dissent. Ukraine is losing internal stability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 28, 2016, 01:56:36 pm

Quote

I think by "Russia" you really meant "Ukraine", given the way Ukraine has been drafting and sending under shells the most economically and politically active part of population, with only the most basic of training, despite the past claims that "60% of Ukraine's army consists of professional troops, circa 2013, Yanukovich's statement"

Yeah, I would prefer better part of the nation doing productive things but you know, we have no other damned choice.

Yanukovitch wanted a very small army of loyal dogs ready to aid police in suppressing reforms, all reforms of his era moved in this directions.

Waves of mobilization are necessary for our survival. Conscription is neccesary for increasing reserve pool with some training.
And we get more and more people signing contracts.

Ukraine can't get a professional modern army out of thin air.

Quote

Unlike, you know, Russia, that actually uses its professional formations up front, with far better efficiency than Ukraine could ever hope to reach (because, as we know by this point, Ukraine has never actually won an engagement with Russian forces in which the Russian forces wanted to win).

Billions of oil money poured in military budget had to make some effect but Russia achieved far less than it wanted in Ukraine. Oh and I enjoy Russian media celebrating capturing village in Syria (Palmyra) as some great victory of Russian Arms :D

Quote

Also, oppressing freedom of speech by citing "treason"? Very Soviet-like. You know, modern Ukraine reminds me of USSR quite a lot, actually, and your previous statements that, paraphrased, say that "journalists are the enemy, because they tell people things that they shouldn't tell" and "traitors must be shot on sight by the conscious citizens/"new militia" with no trial, since a trial may acquit the traitor due to unreliability of judges"

Some amount of war censorship is a necessary thing. As for "shooting on sight..." You put words in my mouth.

Quote

This to me seems to be the main tragedy of Maidan, and the Ukrainian state in general - it would be good if it was actually, you know, aiming to create a more European state. But in reality, what it does is bringing out the worst traits of Soviet Union

Were is my GULAG?

Quote

The corruption in Ukraine, the very reason why Maidan has gathered and what it aimed to reduce or eliminate altogether after the revolution, is stronger than ever, and there's no evidence that this will change any time soon. Or if there is even any way for it to change without mass shooting a significant portion of country's government apparatus, party members, oligarchs, just plain rich businessmen, notorious "field commanders"

Do you really think that installing junta that will execute corrupted persons can "reduce" corruption?

Quote

the ever-increasing foreign debt

https://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/12987
It is not exactly true.

Quote

the incredibly high and growing public distrust of said government (Yatsenuk, a head of Ukrainian parliament, is in single digits and is universally disliked,

*Yawns*  I understand that it is an alien concept for a Russian... Politician's popularity can fluctuate and different guys can come in power from time to time. Countries do not collapse because of that.

Quote

Ukrainian government is a dysfunctional corrupt mess

I believe it is less dysfunctional corrupt mess than ones that ruled before 2014. It is what matters. You can't go from shit to perfect in one go.

Quote

An average response of an Ukrainian here would be "but all of these issues are even worse in Russia, according to our totally impartial and truthful media outlets, and that totally makes it OK, because the only thing that matters is that we, Ukraine, are better than Russia!"

Average response of an Ukrainian to lectures from a Russian would be three short Russian words.



ninjad:

Quote

Does hanging each and every Ukrainian judge counts as a plan?

It is a rather obvious dark humour, no?

Quote

From peaceful protests and media campaigns to "accidents" with some politicians

From - to means that if first one will not work then it is acceptable to do the second if necessary. Direct justice is the last resort option

And yes,  Judges and persecutors are the same shit as they always were and I am unhappy with a speed of reforms. Yet I know that there are no easy solutions of such complex and vital problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 28, 2016, 02:23:38 pm

Spoiler: relapsement, anguish, sorrow (click to show/hide)

Well, OK. Congratulations, you've won the debate. Enjoy your victory over a Russian.

EDIT: I right now have no idea why did I even want to engage in this debate; have gone and made a thread a little bit more friendly and polite. Trigger warnings, ahoy!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 28, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

No, please, please continue. Anything but wrangling over migration, progressive genocide of Germany and sick memes, anything

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on March 28, 2016, 06:08:17 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 28, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

No, please, please continue. Anything but wrangling over migration, progressive genocide of Germany and sick memes, anything

Me vs Russians debates killed way more Bay12 topics than migration stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 28, 2016, 06:09:51 pm

But it was also much more entertaining.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on March 28, 2016, 06:20:55 pm

Are we here to be entertained, or informed? :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 28, 2016, 06:25:28 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 28, 2016, 06:20:55 pm

Are we here to be entertained, or informed? :o

Are you not entertained? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SquatchHammer on March 28, 2016, 06:48:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 28, 2016, 06:25:28 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 28, 2016, 06:20:55 pm

Are we here to be entertained, or informed? :o

Are you not entertained? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs)

I am, as the world around me is crumbling and burning because of stupidity....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 28, 2016, 10:11:44 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 28, 2016, 08:03:01 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on March 27, 2016, 07:37:55 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 27, 2016, 11:49:58 am

Sure it happened. Nowadays it is not as common but in 2014\early 2015 we had a lot of stuff like "Unit X arrived to city Y" or "unit Z has no enough anti-tank weapons" or "enemy artillery strike was successful and we lost that that many soldiers and such equipment" in open press.

Should anyone criticize them for doing so they go "Corrupt military officials want to shut our mouths to hide how bad our army is!" mode.

Eh. Yeah. Problem is that when you don't let anyone report on the war, no one's there to speak up about the crimes. Least not if the soldiers are well trained.

Either way you run it, someone's boned.

Reporting in the war is possible. Just give a few days for units to relocate before running your news story, or keep detailed position out of your article.

Oh, it totally is. I'm talking about policy level. There will be the shitheads who give away your men's positions, or there will be war crimes that go unnoticed for far too long. Both can be theoretically dealt with in an appropriate manner, but you will have to deal with it, in the sense of doing something about it once it happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 02:16:37 am

Russia bans Polish game simulating communist-era shopping. (http://qz.com/646871/russia-banned-a-polish-board-game-that-simulates-communist-era-shopping/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 03:23:44 am

I'm kind of surprised the plane had enough fuel.

Anyway, it's nice to see terrorists hijack planes rather than detonate themselves in parks. Give off that neat 70's vibe. I wonder who that is, it's certainly not the modus operandi of islamist terrorists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on March 29, 2016, 03:50:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 03:23:44 am

I'm kind of surprised the plane had enough fuel.

Anyway, it's nice to see terrorists hijack planes rather than detonate themselves in parks. Give off that neat 70's vibe. I wonder who that is, it's certainly not the modus operandi of islamist terrorists.

Theres always(well by the regulations any way) a large reserve in case the plane needs to divert somewhere else but the destination, and some more for orbiting for over an hour IIRC.

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on March 28, 2016, 06:08:17 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 28, 2016, 06:02:34 pm

No, please, please continue. Anything but wrangling over migration, progressive genocide of Germany and sick memes, anything

Me vs Russians debates killed way more Bay12 topics than migration stuff.

Now that Sputnik terminated its Finnish agency, I too need to get my daily dose from somewhere. Live Leak is alright but too much allahuakhbar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 04:12:29 am

Covenant, if he was a 'classic' suicide bomber he would have detonated his bomb in mid-air. Also not all Egyptians name Ibrahim are muslims :p. He could be a Coptic Christian denoucing their treatments or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 29, 2016, 05:09:00 am

Coptic Christians aren't exactly known for terrorism. They're usually among those being terrorized.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 05:24:32 am

True, but this isn't exactly your typical takfiri terrorist attack, since, you know, no one died yet and most of the hostages were released. So it makes sense to look at other groups.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Vilanat on March 29, 2016, 05:42:17 am

I liked the response of "Egyptian Officials": He isn't a terrorist, he is an idiot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 29, 2016, 06:24:37 am

I was reading that plane hijacking and I ran across "...a french national, an Italian..."

What does that 'national' part means? He isn't french?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 06:58:19 am

Nah, just means French citizen here. AFAIK France don't do that weird things with people that are nationals, but not citizens.

Edit: Apparently the Cyprus hijicker surrendered, still no news on intent. I wonder who has jurisdiction in a case like this, Egypt or Cyprus?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on March 29, 2016, 08:09:41 am

He might be confused enough to not know entirely why he is doing it. I hope everything goes well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 08:18:21 am

Well, he's been arrested, the hostage released... All is well that end's well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 29, 2016, 08:52:50 am

Yeah, from the CNN article, sounds like an unstable mentally ill person who simply snapped.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2016, 09:29:19 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 29, 2016, 02:16:37 am

Russia bans Polish game simulating communist-era shopping. (http://qz.com/646871/russia-banned-a-polish-board-game-that-simulates-communist-era-shopping/)

*whistles Korobeiniki*
Prepare the flags to be unfurled
For we’re seceding from the world...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on March 29, 2016, 01:49:18 pm

The ill-fated hijacker also wore a fake bomb suicide vest and was somehow confused in general, BBC tells me. Good thing no one was seriously hurt in the end and hope the guy gets help if he needs it.

Quote from: smjjames on March 27, 2016, 04:47:09 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-gets-serious-with-eurovision-song-contest-entry-jamala-crimea/

Would be funny in a way if Ukraine won EuroVision.

I'm late with this but yet again I'm reminded how one of the biggest disapointement in Eurosong of the last 20 years was not letting Russia win last year. Just imagine. Austria could send Kochita. Israel could re-activate Dana. Germany would send Rammstein. Ukraine would send this song and then I'm sure you could find some other countries to send trans/gay/"indecent" performers in the heart of Russia. Ultimate troll move at the times when Russia is being accused of incresing crack downs on just mentioned "indecent" sub-cutures.

Then again, Russia could just answer with TaTu so there's thatt. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2016, 02:52:07 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/ivRiY4B.jpg)
TBH he doesn't really look like someone who would hijack a plane but then what do you know, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 29, 2016, 02:56:27 pm

lol, who is the guy standing next to him smiling while he is showing off his fake bombvest?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2016, 02:58:14 pm

Oil and gas industry auditor Ben Innes, 26, from Aberdeen. He just wanted a photo with the hijacker. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on March 29, 2016, 03:08:39 pm

THIS is the hijacker? Damn, he really just looks like a confused, slightly sad old man.

... Hopefully I won't have to eat my words when next time someone really does blow him/herself up and we find out that one also looked just like and old confused person.

Quote from: Covenant on March 29, 2016, 02:18:09 pm

For me, the biggest disappointment in recent Eurovision history was the Common Linnets (the Netherlands' entry) losing out to Conchita's facial hair. Still, they did alright out of it. I heard their song in the background of the soaps for months afterward.

I could never understand what people saw about Netherlands' entry. I mean, I didn't think Cochita was anything more than ok either but I kinda understood why it won, but really, Netherlands? Snooze-fest. :v
Then again, I also thought Swiss entry was stupid and I really liked French song (one of the 10 people in whole Europe, it seems). *shrug* My money was on the Hungary anyways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 29, 2016, 03:10:18 pm

Isis can conquer the market with selling MAKE AWESUM SELFIES WITH WARRIORS OF ALLAH!
New source of profit to make barracks produce more units.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on March 29, 2016, 03:22:51 pm

It would be pretty hilarious, if at this times hopelessly idealistic, if we could ridicule Daesh to the point no one would want to even join them because they were deemed just too lame. "Go home u drunk" kind of lame. No one would wish to deal with them, they would become non-factor. They would be forced to turn into peddling cheap souvenirs like lousy-quality material black flags and "made in PRC" plastic AK replicas. "Please, PLEASE, would someone buy some of our merchandise?! We would even throw in a selfie with our greatest warrior for free!"

The best ways of combating terrorism is using it's own weapon - destroying their morale.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2016, 03:24:06 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on March 29, 2016, 03:08:39 pm

THIS is the hijacker? Damn, he really just looks like a confused, slightly sad old man.

... Hopefully I won't have to eat my words when next time someone really does blow him/herself up and we find out that one also looked just like and old confused person.

My reaction basically. I would rather say the other guy looks more like someone who could hijack a plane, he looks pretty damn crazy to me. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on March 29, 2016, 03:39:13 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on March 29, 2016, 03:22:51 pm

It would be pretty hilarious, if at this times hopelessly idealistic, if we could ridicule Daesh to the point no one would want to even join them because they were deemed just too lame. "Go home u drunk" kind of lame. No one would wish to deal with them, they would become non-factor. They would be forced to turn into peddling cheap souvenirs like lousy-quality material black flags and "made in PRC" plastic AK replicas. "Please, PLEASE, would someone buy some of our merchandise?! We would even throw in a selfie with our greatest warrior for free!"

The best ways of combating terrorism is using it's own weapon - destroying their morale.

The morale of Daesh already seems to have already gone into free fall  though. There have recently been lots of stories of Daesh fighters deserting their positions and/or being executed by their own superiors. There was also an article some time ago about how Daesh were forced to cut all fighters salaries in half.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 29, 2016, 05:37:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 29, 2016, 02:58:14 pm

Oil and gas industry auditor Ben Innes, 26, from Aberdeen. He just wanted a photo with the hijacker. :P

I like to imagine that the guy asked for a photo first, then pulled open his jacket as the camera went off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on March 29, 2016, 05:40:51 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 29, 2016, 02:58:14 pm

Oil and gas industry auditor Ben Innes, 26, from Aberdeen. He just wanted a photo with the hijacker. :P

Weirdo from the North East. Probably looking for a sheep...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2016, 06:04:04 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 29, 2016, 05:37:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 29, 2016, 02:58:14 pm

Oil and gas industry auditor Ben Innes, 26, from Aberdeen. He just wanted a photo with the hijacker. :P

I like to imagine that the guy asked for a photo first, then pulled open his jacket as the camera went off.

Why would he want to ask for a photo if he didin't knew he was a hijacker? Or maybe he hijacked it with a toothpick and only then had shown the bomb to others?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 30, 2016, 03:12:14 am

Damn you Kot, I was going to post that picture. You sneaky blitzkrieging Pole!

Since we're talking of ISIS, they lost Palmyra to the regime. Apparently their number of fighter is down by ü~20% due to defections and bombs. (http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21695752-jihadists-run-palmyra-falls-caliphate-pushed-back-iraq-and-syria?spc=scode&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709) Taking back Mosul will still be bloody, but they're definitely on the loose.

I'm reminded of something I realized when watching ISIS video clips with Knit Tie. Little combat videos, lots of execution of prisoners. Because, you know, actual combat tens to end up with dead jihadists and that's it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miljan on March 30, 2016, 04:13:29 am

Kurdistan Workers' Party leader Riza Altun announced few days ago there will be a start of spring offensive in turkey

Pentagon pulling military families out of Turkey
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/03/29/pentagon-pulling-military-families-out-turkey/82382704/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 30, 2016, 06:32:19 am

So, I just stumbled on this article (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/) about the murder of an Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow. I was wondering if LW knows anything about it, since well, I had never heard anything of Ahamadi muslims before , probably before they seems to be mostly a South Asian movement and muslims in Belgium are mostly of North African descent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 30, 2016, 08:42:33 am

I'm reading up on them, it seems like Ahmadis are comparable to some degree with the early Christian Protestants. Of course, they've faced persecution from non-Ahmadi Muslims for daring to be of the opinion that Islam should not be about war and forcible conversion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 08:43:16 am

In what way?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on March 30, 2016, 08:44:38 am

They're against religious war, which is kind of a big deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 08:50:16 am

What does that have to do with the early Christian Protestants? They certainly were not above persecuting religious opponents anymore than the other sects and religions were.


For that matter, they [the ahmadis] are hardly the only contemporary muslims making a stand against religious violence.

I just fail to see what suddenly makes them so singular.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2016, 09:08:38 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 08:50:16 am

What does that have to do with the early Christian Protestants? They certainly were not above persecuting religious opponents anymore than the other sects and religions were.


For that matter, they [the ahmadis] are hardly the only contemporary muslims making a stand against religious violence.

I just fail to see what suddenly makes them so singular.

Because to other muslims, they are heretics and heretics must die?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 11:24:06 am

Much like christians, all muslims hate each other. That's not singular either. That is one of the many ways in which the religion of peace and the religion of love are alike

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on March 30, 2016, 03:21:47 pm

Erdogan mildly sad, politely asks evil Germany to stop being mean to him. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35925828)


But seriously, while Erdogan trying to strongarm his political ego is always troublesome, I find relief there's still some sensible people among EU leaders who be all like "now listen old boy, why don't you take it down a notch, hm?"

If only that happened more often.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 30, 2016, 10:12:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 30, 2016, 06:32:19 am

So, I just stumbled on this article (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/) about the murder of an Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow. I was wondering if LW knows anything about it, since well, I had never heard anything of Ahamadi muslims before , probably before they seems to be mostly a South Asian movement and muslims in Belgium are mostly of North African descent.

Popping back to say the storm's not killed me but it's left me with digging to do and timber to replace and yeah this was headline but it's died down rather quickly, with everyone showing sympathy and hashtags but no one addressing the elephant in the room. Business as usual basically, I mean the Guardian's more preoccupied with lambasting Thomas the Tank engine as being a sexist, anti-environmental colonial classist vehicle (no pun intended) for indoctrinating children to be evil straight white men. (http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/shortcuts/2016/mar/29/thomas-tank-engine-film-multicultural-world-react-fallout) Presumably the movie coming out (called 'The Great Race') will be a warning on how being respectful to your friends will lead to a slippery railway line down to occupying Alsace-Lorraine. (http://i.imgur.com/elHJExT.jpg)
Best part is of course, who bloody writes the Guardian? Who wrote this? Who started it all, picking a fight with me engines?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/G2B9hNL.png)

YOU'RE A FUCKING WHITE MALE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErhbJgEL5jQ) of course!
Good Lord, there are too many influential international institutions run by self-hating whites and their pandering handlers, I feel someone has to take the knives from their wrists before they cut everyone around them too much or else learn Thomas the tank engine runs down the engine line number 9, not derail across the street ;-;

YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CUT THE MENTAL HEALTH BUDGET OSBORNE

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, WHOLE GENERATIONS OF THESE MADCATS RUNNING THE WORLD

NOW WE DON'T EVEN HAVE FICTIONAL TRAINS TO CONSOLE OUR CURRENT TRAINS BEING well, controversial. (http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2016/03/29/hs2-phase-2-race-starts-with-520m-consultants-prize/)

This is far more important than being religion of peace'd.

Spoiler: religionthread stuff (click to show/hide)

As for Ahmadiyyah Muslims, they've been in the UK for about hundred years without causing any trouble and were founded by some guy called Ahmad who would otherwise be a pretty average Sunni if he did not differ so largely on how the world becomes dar al-Islam. Instead of expanding via the precedent set against the Sassanids or Byzantines, expand via the precedent set by Evangelical proselytizers or Indian polytheists, by peace, teaching, preaching and example. Also quite unique in that they're a lot like early protestants when it comes to canon, in that they're ok with (even supportive of) translating holy canon and even incorporate the holy canon of other religions into theirs, holding certain other texts to be within their canon (some Jew, Christian, Hindu texts for example. Hindu ones being especially surprising given that they're not people of the book). I am grossly butchering an entire religion's creed with simplification mind you, as there's a lot more to the sect. Also notable in that they believe they should response to critics of Islam in kind, as today's critics attack Islam via the pen, reply via the pen - not the bomb or machete.
And on that note I just realized I'm still sour that the Hebdo murderers won. Or that the refugees who fled persecution to the West are being killed by the perps the West invited. Or that this was all happening in broad daylight and straight white dictators laughed off the consequences everyone but themselves would have to live through, or not, as it is.
This Ahmad believed his message would be especially appealing to the West, which he believed was falling into materialism. Well there's a sage for you, the West falling into materialism, who'd have thunk it. Mostly live on the other side of London though so fuck if I know much else to talk about in detail that just wouldn't be horrendously insulting in its ignorance.

Quote

The sect was founded in Qādiān in the Punjab, India, in 1889 by Mīrzā Ghulām Aḥmad (c. 1839–1908), who claimed to be the mahdī (a figure expected by some Muslims at the end of the world), the Christian Messiah, an incarnation of the Hindu god Krishna, and a reappearance (burūz) of Muhammad. The sect’s doctrine is unorthodox in some aspects: for example, it is believed that Jesus feigned death and resurrection but in actuality escaped to India, where he died at the age of 120; also, jihād (“holy war”) is reinterpreted as a battle against unbelievers to be waged by peaceful methods rather than by violent military means.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/Ahmadiyyah

Now these guys got imagination

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 08:50:16 am

What does that have to do with the early Christian Protestants? They certainly were not above persecuting religious opponents anymore than the other sects and religions were.

Early Christian protestants were soft and incapable of doing much, seeking to remove big money from the Papacy and stop abuses by the Clergy, wicked Popes, Nuns, Priests and so on. Then, being picked up on the wings of rising nationalism, the Puritans are born, and shit gets TOASTY.
Oh!
Relevant:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 17, 2015, 09:57:24 pm

I'm reminded of the Italian firebrand priest who upset the Republics of Italy with an uprising. He preached of the decadence of the Republics, the corruption of the Papacy, warnings of foreign invasion (of course all three happened) and preached an austere, strict Catholicism.  He preached that the bible was the sole source of authority on Earth, that poverty was a virtue and that all artworks and books that were not holy should be burned for being sinful distractions. When his prophesy of foreign invasion came true a French army was marching to Naples - this would take them through Florence. Florence itself was undergoing political turmoil and its ruler Piero (recently having taken office) surrendered spinelessly to the French, an affront that caused the Florentines to rebel against Piero themselves. This priest would take control of Florence and Florence would turn from one of the great centres of secular humanism to a book burning theocracy.

Not a Protestant priest mind you, but the mechanisms that made Piero made the Puritans, foreign invaders, domestic decadence and corruption amidst religious turmoil. Later Protestantism had much of the same values as Ottoman Sunni Islam, (though obviously differing on belief and practice, held quite similar values).

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2016, 08:50:16 am

For that matter, they [the ahmadis] are hardly the only contemporary muslims making a stand against religious violence.
I just fail to see what suddenly makes them so singular.

Them being a significant community in the UK in the story about Ahmadis being killed in the UK by Salafists for making a stand against Jihad

It's pretty obvious if you don't overlook it

Quote from: Sinistar on March 30, 2016, 03:21:47 pm

Erdogan mildly sad, politely asks evil Germany to stop being mean to him. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35925828)
But seriously, while Erdogan trying to strongarm his political ego is always troublesome, I find relief there's still some sensible people among EU leaders who be all like "now listen old boy, why don't you take it down a notch, hm?"
If only that happened more often.

Quote

"freedom of the press and freedom of expression... are values the EU cherishes".

Are (https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs181/projects/international-freedom-of-info/europe.html) they (http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-latest-export-internet-censorship-1439333404) serious? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-springs-to-action-over-hate-speech-against-migrants/2016/01/06/6031218e-b315-11e5-8abc-d09392edc612_story.html) Are (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angela-merkel-caught-on-hot-mic-pressing-facebook-ceo-over-anti-immigrant-posts.html) they (http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/01/20/u-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392) gigglin? (http://www.volkskrant.nl/dossier-aanslag-op-charlie-hebdo/willem-holtrop-lacht-om-zijn-nieuwe-vrienden~a3826650/) JUST (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/)

Also anyone here think they didn't do this just to piss Erdogan off and make him act rashly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2016, 10:22:29 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 30, 2016, 10:12:07 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on March 30, 2016, 03:21:47 pm

Erdogan mildly sad, politely asks evil Germany to stop being mean to him. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35925828)
But seriously, while Erdogan trying to strongarm his political ego is always troublesome, I find relief there's still some sensible people among EU leaders who be all like "now listen old boy, why don't you take it down a notch, hm?"
If only that happened more often.

Quote

"freedom of the press and freedom of expression... are values the EU cherishes".

Are (https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs181/projects/international-freedom-of-info/europe.html) they (http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-latest-export-internet-censorship-1439333404) serious? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-springs-to-action-over-hate-speech-against-migrants/2016/01/06/6031218e-b315-11e5-8abc-d09392edc612_story.html) Are (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angela-merkel-caught-on-hot-mic-pressing-facebook-ceo-over-anti-immigrant-posts.html) they (http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/01/20/u-twittert-wel-heel-veel-zei-de-politie-1578392) gigglin? (http://www.volkskrant.nl/dossier-aanslag-op-charlie-hebdo/willem-holtrop-lacht-om-zijn-nieuwe-vrienden~a3826650/) JUST (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/)

Also anyone here think they didn't do this just to piss Erdogan off and make him act rashly?

He's just angry that he can't strangle whoever wrote the song and the people singing it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 31, 2016, 04:46:44 am

It's not even that great a song - it's just funny because Erdogan reacted like he did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 07:17:12 am

Ahah, good old LW's is back, writing a post which contains some nuggets of informations in the midst of a bant where you don't know what to address and what not, what is shitposting and what's not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 08:03:21 am

Turkish border guards apparently "shoot to kill" on refugees. Be nice to have some more info on that if anyone has some. (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/turks-shoot-to-kill-as-refugees-cross-border-xtv0g83zz)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 31, 2016, 08:32:54 am

Apparently they have been doing it, so, yeah. Even the Russians are concerned.

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=d2pHSdMN7sKp7tMDves3Mnl4_6IsM&q=turkey+border+guards+refugees&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA9MDdg-vLAhUFxGMKHew1Ak8QqgIIKTAA

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 08:39:10 am

Well, that certainly seems like an, ahem, solution, to the problem of refugees in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on March 31, 2016, 08:42:06 am

Not an ethical solution of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 08:57:25 am

But is is certainly a solution that Europe wants, given how much benefits Turkey is to get in return for "dealing with the refugee problem".

Either that, or European leadership has become extremely dumb, for not realizing the simplest of consequences that actions have.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 31, 2016, 09:05:05 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 07:17:12 am

Ahah, good old LW's is back, writing a post which contains some nuggets of informations in the midst of a bant where you don't know what to address and what not, what is shitposting and what's not.

Spoiler: Oh God it's multiplying (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/GEX9OOe.png)

That kid doesn't stand a chance, here's hoping he's at the very least culturally mixed as fuck so he doesn't carry his what you might say, straight white dictator Heritage

The Guardian

Mein sides

Quote from: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 08:03:21 am

Turkish border guards apparently "shoot to kill" on refugees. Be nice to have some more info on that if anyone has some. (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/turks-shoot-to-kill-as-refugees-cross-border-xtv0g83zz)

With the Kurds building their anti-suicide bomber trench and the Turks having not done so getting suicide bombed by Syrians this seemed inevitable. Should've built their barrier whilst they still could've, instead of trying to project power into Syria.
Anyways I can't see the Times article because paywall but it sounds like they've been given a shoot to kill policy, when that's not what's happening.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-shooting-dead-syrian-refugees-flee-civil-war-a6960971.html

Quote

UK-based monitoring group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights alleged 16 people seeking sanctuary in Turkey have been shot over the past four months.
They said those killed included three children.
Other examples compiled by the Syrian Observatory include the alleged killings of a man and his child at Ras al-Ain, at the eastern end of the Turkish-Syrian border.
In the west of the country, two refugees were reportedly shot dead at Guvveci on 5 March.
“It’s in all areas. It happens to people coming from Idlib, Aleppo, Isis areas, Kurdish areas,” a  spokesman for the Syrian Observatory told The Independent.

By contrast Turkey has let in 2 million refugees and have been putting up with newEurope everyday.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 08:39:10 am

Well, that certainly seems like an, ahem, solution, to the problem of refugees in Europe.

It will not. The numbers are simply far too low. Unless the Times is secretly misrepresenting this on purpose to make it seem like they have a shoot to kill policy which will cause people walking to Turkey fear.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 08:57:25 am

But is is certainly a solution that Europe wants, given how much benefits Turkey is to get in return for "dealing with the refugee problem".
Either that, or European leadership has become extremely dumb, for not realizing the simplest of consequences that actions have.

European leadership is not stupid, and is highly educated. They merely defer their thinking to others whose agendas do not require them to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 09:32:15 am

There was that thing in your version of the article LW:

For every migrant deported to Turkey, the EU will take in a Syrian refugee from Turkey, but this number will be capped at 72,000 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-shooting-dead-syrian-refugees-flee-civil-war-a6960971.html)

Should surely calm the nativists around here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 09:56:36 am

72,000 - in total, or per some unspecified period of time? European officials have been known to manipulate the information in that way before, you know, with "tell them the number of migrants arriving per day instead or per year, to quell the stupid unwashed masses public".

Besides, a number like seems like an extremely easy thing to amend in further provisions. Raise the debt ceiling, so to speak.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 31, 2016, 09:58:58 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 09:32:15 am

There was that thing in your version of the article LW:
For every migrant deported to Turkey, the EU will take in a Syrian refugee from Turkey, but this number will be capped at 72,000 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-shooting-dead-syrian-refugees-flee-civil-war-a6960971.html)
Should surely calm the nativists around here.

It will, because they are narrow minded, forgetting the immediate past and future exist. 72,000 is a meaningless number if it is enforced, if the cap does not also create a deportation limit of 72,000, will not address the migration rate of millions or the West African, Central African or Black Sea routes, or just the simple fact that if the millions rate was magically turned into 72,000 it would still be too much, too little and too late, or the fact that this deal opens the door to Turkish migrants or "Turkish" migrants in such a way that they could not be stopped by Schengen nations unless those nations actively defied Brussels. And I could still appreciate late damage control as there's no such thing as damage control, but this is not that. This is damage control against opposition.

Quote

First, readmission. Even if Turkey agrees to accept the rapid return of those crossing from Turkey into Greece, the single biggest practical problem remains one which the EU was familiar with for a long time, but did not address yet seriously: the state of the Greek asylum system.
It is crucial to stress, again and again, that any readmission must happen in accordance with EU and international law on the rights of refugees. As Kenneth Roth from Human Rights Watch put it, each claim should be "given careful consideration."
The problem with this is that this is in fact a meaningless commitment unless it is accompanied by a dramatic strengthening of the ability of the Greek Asylum Service to implement it. In a recent paper (published by Forced Migration Review) in January 2016 Maria Stavropoulou, its director, wrote that:
    "case workers can reasonably be expected to issue no more than a few dozen decisions a month … in a situation, however, where thousands of people arrive every day in a country … these requirements are simply impossible to meet. For instance, the Greek Asylum Service can currently process at most 1,500 applications a month if it wishes to respect all of these requirements – which is less than half of the average daily inflow of refugees on the Greek islands at the time of writing this article."
Some human rights organisations argued that the impossibility of conducting a full review of all individual applications makes any deal with Turkey impossible. In fact, the situation for individual asylum seekers in Greece is even worse if there is no deal at all.
http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=67&newsletter_ID=105

A pointless endeavor in futility? No.

Quote

First, the EU and Greek authorities should focus on building up the administrative capacity for determining asylum cases and readmission in accordance with applicable European law. As recently as 24 February the executive director of the European Asylum Support Office, Jose Carreira, stated that "supporting the EU Relocation Scheme is the key priority for EASO operations in Greece." And as late as 10 March, he told EU interior ministers about the need for more personnel to be sent to Greece to work on relocation.
The EU relocation scheme has seen less than 100 people relocated from Greece to the EU per month since last autumn. It should be suspended without further delay. Greece currently has some 260 employees in its Asylum Service. As ESI learned in Athens recently, one quarter of them work on relocation, busy with a program that at best resettles a few hundred people a month. This is, in fact, an irresponsible waste of scarce administrative resources.
The European Commission should put all of its energy into devising ways how Greece can be helped by integrating asylum case workers from other EU member states into its system without delay.

Just the next vehicle which mass immigration can continue amongst European states irregardless of their constituent's wishes. And the deal promises relocation of refugees directly from Turkey, to where again?

Yuropoors do not think about the consequences of their leaders' actions. The Forced Migration Review should change its name back to the Refugee Participation Network. Sounds friendlier.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 09:56:36 am

72,000 - in total, or per some unspecified period of time? European officials have been known to manipulate the information in that way before, you know, with "tell them the number of migrants arriving per day instead or per year, to quell the stupid unwashed masses public".
Besides, a number like seems like an extremely easy thing to amend in further provisions. Raise the debt ceiling, so to speak.

Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany has steadfastly refused to cap the number of legitimate asylum seekers who can enter. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/world/europe/european-union-turkey-migrants.html?_r=0)
The cap is ultimately meaningless and you can keep applying even if you have been deported from Europe. Priority will be given to those who haven't tried reaching Europe yet. That's irregardless of whether it's 72,000 a day or year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2016, 10:07:57 am

Yeah, my though reading that number exactly. Reading this Guardian piece (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/18/refugees-will-be-sent-back-across-aegean-in-eu-turkey-deal), it's not clear if it per year or overall.

Quote

But a cap of 72,000 places has been put on Syrians who will be given asylum in Europe, far short of the 108,000 a year recommended by international aid agencies, if the EU is to do its fair share. The scheme will be stopped once more than 72,000 people have been settled in Europe, amid concerns among some countries of an “open-ended commitment”.

Yeah, I also don't really see Erdogan sticking to his part of the deal once he pocket the euromonies for some reasons. Although from another point of view, if Turkey is deemed a safe country in the process, any asylum seeker whose application is rejected who came via Turkey can then be dumped back there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 31, 2016, 12:05:50 pm

Monthly rate of 72,000 seems likely, as that would be a an annual rate of 864,000 and 800,000 annual is the bare limit of what Germany can handle with reasonable dignity and the resources available to it. It is also a number that would be meaningful to Turkey, whilst 72,000 annual would make no difference either way and 72,000 daily is pointless in the other direction, being no limit. Saying 72,000 without specifying monthly or annual should be a way of keeping Europeans apathetic as 800,000 a year is actually what got them off their behinds for once, and I suppose this is just the next step once the Europeans have got back on the bums with 800,000 Syrians, an open door to 75M Turks and none of the other routes closed and deportation or processing in limbo

It's the same thing every time.
I could probably just post shit we said in 2014 and it'd still be exactly as relevant.
European leaders want more, and find justification afterwards.

It's just boring at this point. It doesn't matter what happens, who dies, who covers up what, who does what in the open, who says what, who does what, it's just the same :P

2016 will be in a nutshell:

Spoiler: nutshell is my nuts hell (click to show/hide)

-Europeans will explode, maintain everything is fine and carry on whilst growing older and fewer

-Some sex slavery and fatal raping will continue as normal, no one will talk about it except to mention that no one is talking about it.
The police will not do their job and cover it up to maintain social cohesion and stop hatefacts influencing the PO.
Shitposting bloggers will expose it again and then the West will lecture the East on freedom of expression.

-Migrant groups will kill migrant groups, Putin News will talk about how this is the West's fault.
The West will at first deny the killings, then blame itself for being Hitler.
Commentators will demand that the white man be stopped.

-Actual nazis will beat up homeless people and set refugee centres on fire.
The police will be too busy knocking on the doors of Dutch twitpostsers, telling them to cut it out and stop having hatethoughts.

-Another gay Swede will be sarcastically murdered in an ironic fashion by Salafist newSwedes.
After making jokes for 2 days about how the victim was begging for Anaconda, everyone will forget.

-Migration will increase by a few million, just keep adding more numbers because it's just numbers.
Seriously, you like numbers? Have some more.
By the turn of 2017 they will turn out to be underestimations and everyone will pretend to be shocked.

-Stat wizards will find a way to make these big numbers disappear whilst maintaining ever-increasing migration.
Everyone will pretend to be shocked when they turn out to be big numbers.

-The EU will still be stealing all of my fish, and not content with my fish will declare fish war on Eastern Asia for Fukushima Fish, or less radiated stock.
French wild boar will still be radioactive.

-Western Europeans will lecture Southern and Eastern Europeans in how to be progressive and multicultural and threaten them if they don't come into line with the West.

-Politicians will go on TV and tell everyone that everything multicultural and progressive has failed and it must change.
When they go back to work they will maintain course and change nothing

-The Eurozone will not grow enough and Germans will continue to buy gold or purchase assets in London.
The City of London will vanish beneath the Atlantic under the weight of all the gold-backed keks.

-A "Blank X" will be murdered by a "Blank Y" and as revenge, a "Blank Z" will be murdered by a "Blank E."
This will be the fault of "Blank G."
"Blank X" will be blamed by "Blank H", who demands that "Blank L" take "Blank H"'s concern seriously.

-Blankety Banks will do nothing wrong and anyone who says otherwise will get depression and commit suicide.
They will however succeed in purchasing all of Canada's gold in diversifying their assets into forms that can't disappear in a computer.

-Someone will forecast that Russia will collapse this year or the next again.
It won't, but Putin's vodka sales would fall.

-Eurovision will be shit and the judges will fuck up the votes to ensure the singer with the right "message" wins.
Calls to reform the Eurovision contest into a representative democracy will be laughed down as the ravings of racist Polish infiltrators, scared of newPop.
The winner will maximize diversity points and make a message about how new Europe will dominate the world.

-A Western activist will get several dozen refugees killed by drowning, electrocution or Turk.

-Another German television show will have a sociologist demonstrate how helping refugees cures depression.
Yes you, Jim.
You in particular.

-An ISIS cell will be busted after bragging on Twitter about making it into Europe through refugee bants.
Supporters will bake jihad cakes in response, general response will be to post cat pictures.
No one will address their existing network.

-Someone involved in media will be murdered for saying something.
Everyone will stand by in solidarity and fervently demand that we stand by and protect our values!
...And then restrict free speech, blaming the victim for triggering their killer's trigger fingers.
This person will then apologize, but not really. "Sorry, not sorry!"

-The EU will manage to find a power it has not taken yet. It will then attempt to take it.

-A politician will get in trouble for a sex scandal.

-Another politician will get in trouble for a criminal sex scandal.

-Another politician will get in trouble for a criminal sex scandal, but turn out to be innocent after they resign.

-Some Italians will be gifted more Rolexes by Saudis. The Rolexes may be confiscated and disappeared.

-People will say "X did nothing wrong," in response to massive Godwinning against "X" literally being Hitler.
There may end up being multiple "X's" per country.
The Guardian will maintain that Europe is one step away from Concentration camps and Thomas the Tiger Tank Engine.

-No matter who wins the American Presidential Elections, all candidates will maintain that Europe's leadership has failed and America should learn from us.
No matter who says it or what they say, I will probably find a way to agree.

-The new Game of Thrones season will feature Danaerys Sueborn getting nothing done. Stannis the Mannis will be dead, and what is dead may never die.

-The Swiss will ultimately decide against voting to ban comercial banks' ability to create sovereign currency, citing no idea as to what they were voting for as the main reason.

-Someone will make a horrifyingly exaggerated shitpost about Europe that will come true in 2 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on March 31, 2016, 01:33:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 31, 2016, 12:05:50 pm

2016 will be in a nutshell:

Spoiler: nutshell is my nuts hell (click to show/hide)

-Europeans will explode, maintain everything is fine and carry on whilst growing older and fewer

-Some sex slavery and fatal raping will continue as normal, no one will talk about it except to mention that no one is talking about it.
The police will not do their job and cover it up to maintain social cohesion and stop hatefacts influencing the PO.
Shitposting bloggers will expose it again and then the West will lecture the East on freedom of expression.

-Migrant groups will kill migrant groups, Putin News will talk about how this is the West's fault.
The West will at first deny the killings, then blame itself for being Hitler.
Commentators will demand that the white man be stopped.

-Actual nazis will beat up homeless people and set refugee centres on fire.
The police will be too busy knocking on the doors of Dutch twitpostsers, telling them to cut it out and stop having hatethoughts.

-Another gay Swede will be sarcastically murdered in an ironic fashion by Salafist newSwedes.
After making jokes for 2 days about how the victim was begging for Anaconda, everyone will forget.

-Migration will increase by a few million, just keep adding more numbers because it's just numbers.
Seriously, you like numbers? Have some more.
By the turn of 2017 they will turn out to be underestimations and everyone will pretend to be shocked.

-Stat wizards will find a way to make these big numbers disappear whilst maintaining ever-increasing migration.
Everyone will pretend to be shocked when they turn out to be big numbers.

-The EU will still be stealing all of my fish, and not content with my fish will declare fish war on Eastern Asia for Fukushima Fish, or less radiated stock.
French wild boar will still be radioactive.

-Western Europeans will lecture Southern and Eastern Europeans in how to be progressive and multicultural and threaten them if they don't come into line with the West.

-Politicians will go on TV and tell everyone that everything multicultural and progressive has failed and it must change.
When they go back to work they will maintain course and change nothing

-The Eurozone will not grow enough and Germans will continue to buy gold or purchase assets in London.
The City of London will vanish beneath the Atlantic under the weight of all the gold-backed keks.

-A "Blank X" will be murdered by a "Blank Y" and as revenge, a "Blank Z" will be murdered by a "Blank E."
This will be the fault of "Blank G."
"Blank X" will be blamed by "Blank H", who demands that "Blank L" take "Blank H"'s concern seriously.

-Blankety Banks will do nothing wrong and anyone who says otherwise will get depression and commit suicide.
They will however succeed in purchasing all of Canada's gold in diversifying their assets into forms that can't disappear in a computer.

-Someone will forecast that Russia will collapse this year or the next again.
It won't, but Putin's vodka sales would fall.

-Eurovision will be shit and the judges will fuck up the votes to ensure the singer with the right "message" wins.
Calls to reform the Eurovision contest into a representative democracy will be laughed down as the ravings of racist Polish infiltrators, scared of newPop.
The winner will maximize diversity points and make a message about how new Europe will dominate the world.

-A Western activist will get several dozen refugees killed by drowning, electrocution or Turk.

-Another German television show will have a sociologist demonstrate how helping refugees cures depression.
Yes you, Jim.
You in particular.

-An ISIS cell will be busted after bragging on Twitter about making it into Europe through refugee bants.
Supporters will bake jihad cakes in response, general response will be to post cat pictures.
No one will address their existing network.

-Someone involved in media will be murdered for saying something.
Everyone will stand by in solidarity and fervently demand that we stand by and protect our values!
...And then restrict free speech, blaming the victim for triggering their killer's trigger fingers.
This person will then apologize, but not really. "Sorry, not sorry!"

-The EU will manage to find a power it has not taken yet. It will then attempt to take it.

-A politician will get in trouble for a sex scandal.

-Another politician will get in trouble for a criminal sex scandal.

-Another politician will get in trouble for a criminal sex scandal, but turn out to be innocent after they resign.

-Some Italians will be gifted more Rolexes by Saudis. The Rolexes may be confiscated and disappeared.

-People will say "X did nothing wrong," in response to massive Godwinning against "X" literally being Hitler.
There may end up being multiple "X's" per country.
The Guardian will maintain that Europe is one step away from Concentration camps and Thomas the Tiger Tank Engine.

-No matter who wins the American Presidential Elections, all candidates will maintain that Europe's leadership has failed and America should learn from us.
No matter who says it or what they say, I will probably find a way to agree.

-The new Game of Thrones season will feature Danaerys Sueborn getting nothing done. Stannis the Mannis will be dead, and what is dead may never die.

-The Swiss will ultimately decide against voting to ban comercial banks' ability to create sovereign currency, citing no idea as to what they were voting for as the main reason.

-Someone will make a horrifyingly exaggerated shitpost about Europe that will come true in 2 years.

You're truly the greatest prophet of Bay12.
Will Poland be ever able into space?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 31, 2016, 01:49:24 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 31, 2016, 08:57:25 am

But is is certainly a solution that Europe wants, given how much benefits Turkey is to get in return for "dealing with the refugee problem".

Either that, or European leadership has become extremely dumb, for not realizing the simplest of consequences that actions have.

I said it before: this is not even the first time this kind of thing happens. The Morocco regimee has been dumping deported immigrants in the desert for years on behalf of European countries, and getting special prerogatives in return.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 31, 2016, 09:25:23 pm

Anyone from France here? Is it true that the El-Komri law intends to remove the mandatory leave after 24 hours of uninterrupted work?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 01, 2016, 10:58:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 31, 2016, 01:33:48 pm

You're truly the greatest prophet of Bay12.
Will Poland be ever able into space?

I'm a prophet of nothing, it's just an observation of a pattern. I cannot answer that question.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/quIyFIN.png)

The social democrat left is in decline all across Europe.

The economist mourns (http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695887-centre-left-sharp-decline-across-europe-rose-thou-art-sick).

Diversity is now in some parrts of Europe seen as a threat. Diversity comes with challenges. But diversity is humanity's destiny. There is not going to be, even in the remotest places of this planet, a nation that will not see diversity in its future. That's where humanity is heading. And those politicians trying to sell to their electorates, a society that is exclusively composed of people of one culture, are trying to portray a future based on a past that never existed, therefore that future will never be. Europe will be diverse, like all other parts of the world will be diverse, the only question is how do we deal with that diversity. And my answer to that is by ensuring that our values determine how we deal with diversity, and not giving up our values to refuse diversity. That will bring us down as a society, if we don't get this right, I truly believe Europe will not remain the Europe we have built. Europe will not remain the place of peace and freedom for very long.
-Frans Timmermans, most powerful bureaucrat in Europe. (https://euobserver.com/news/126445)

I have nothing new to say. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N14U5ZE-N2w)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:12:52 am

Greece will start sending back refugees to Turkey coming monday. They fear heavy resistance and people fighting till death, because the refugees *really* don't want to go to Turkey. To prevent serious escalation, the Greekish police will be dispatched on a 1:1 basis. One police officer per one refugee.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 02, 2016, 07:21:59 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:12:52 am

Greece will start sending back refugees to Turkey coming monday. They fear heavy resistance and people fighting till death, because the refugees *really* don't want to go to Turkey. To prevent serious escalation, the Greekish police will be dispatched on a 1:1 basis. One police officer per one refugee.

Considering the numbers of refugees, sounds like they'd have to use ENTIRE police departments of multiple cities and towns.....

Also, it's just 'Greek', not 'Greekish'. English is funny in that way sometimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 08:03:05 am

Yeah I guess if you want to rob a bank in Greece, next week would be the time to do it. There'll likely be no police left to do normal police work.

Ohwait nvm. In mother Greecia, bank rob you.

In more local news, the Dutch coastguard managed to escort a pair of whales that were in danger of stranding, swimming towards the river delta, back into open waters.
They used an inversed wedge formation of ships to try and coerce the animals in the right direction, and it worked.
Last year unprecedented numbers of whales have stranded and died along the north sea coast. Marine biologists are baffled, and working hard to determine what's causing this increase in beachings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 02, 2016, 09:36:53 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 08:03:05 am

Yeah I guess if you want to rob a bank in Greece, next week would be the time to do it. There'll likely be no police left to do normal police work.

Ohwait nvm. In mother Greecia, bank rob you.

In more local news, the Dutch coastguard managed to escort a pair of whales that were in danger of stranding, swimming towards the river delta, back into open waters.
They used an inversed wedge formation of ships to try and coerce the animals in the right direction, and it worked.
Last year unprecedented numbers of whales have stranded and died along the north sea coast. Marine biologists are baffled, and working hard to determine what's causing this increase in beachings.

Isn't it obvious? These "whale-ish" refugees are trying to get to our EU shores.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 02, 2016, 10:01:57 am

We had a river kill itself by swimming into the Thames. They're pretty fucked in the sonar right now for some reason, probably some military shit screwing with their brains

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 10:38:54 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 02, 2016, 10:01:57 am

We had a river kill itself by swimming into the Thames.

Damn pollution can even kill rivers now!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 11:30:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 01, 2016, 10:58:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on March 31, 2016, 01:33:48 pm

You're truly the greatest prophet of Bay12.
Will Poland be ever able into space?

I'm a prophet of nothing, it's just an observation of a pattern. I cannot answer that question.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/quIyFIN.png)

The social democrat left is in decline all across Europe.

The economist mourns (http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695887-centre-left-sharp-decline-across-europe-rose-thou-art-sick).

Diversity is now in some parrts of Europe seen as a threat. Diversity comes with challenges. But diversity is humanity's destiny. There is not going to be, even in the remotest places of this planet, a nation that will not see diversity in its future. That's where humanity is heading. And those politicians trying to sell to their electorates, a society that is exclusively composed of people of one culture, are trying to portray a future based on a past that never existed, therefore that future will never be. Europe will be diverse, like all other parts of the world will be diverse, the only question is how do we deal with that diversity. And my answer to that is by ensuring that our values determine how we deal with diversity, and not giving up our values to refuse diversity. That will bring us down as a society, if we don't get this right, I truly believe Europe will not remain the Europe we have built. Europe will not remain the place of peace and freedom for very long.
-Frans Timmermans, most powerful bureaucrat in Europe. (https://euobserver.com/news/126445)

I have nothing new to say. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N14U5ZE-N2w)

It's almost like this idiot is trying to start a war. These internationalist rats will stop at nothing to destroy the European peoples and cultures, and that leaves those people with nothing but nationalism and violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:00:53 pm

I don't see any internationalist rats. I just see a realist giving a fair warning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 02, 2016, 04:38:31 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:00:53 pm

I don't see any internationalist rats. I just see a realist giving a fair warning.

Well you see, there are some people who treat "diversity" as a bad thing. Because you see, they fear that in an event of such "diversification", their own little "values and cultures" would not be able to withstand the fair competition with the others; in other words, they don't believe in ability of their own nations and their people to withstand a real test of time.

It's really quite ironic that these people tend to hide behind a moniker of a "nationalist" most of the time, because such a world-view pretty much requires a deep lack of trust in their own nation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:01:29 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 02, 2016, 04:38:31 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:00:53 pm

I don't see any internationalist rats. I just see a realist giving a fair warning.

Well you see, there are some people who treat "diversity" as a bad thing. Because you see, they fear that in an event of such "diversification", their own little "values and cultures" would not be able to withstand the fair competition with the others; in other words, they don't believe in ability of their own nations and their people to withstand a real test of time.

It's really quite ironic that these people tend to hide behind a moniker of a "nationalist" most of the time, because such a world-view pretty much requires a deep lack of trust in their own nation.

Cultures cannot complement each other when they are forced together into an amorphous blob. The result is the destruction of all of them, and the people who believe they would benefit from such a divided and weak world are, of course, those in power in the EU who are pushing for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:11:54 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 02, 2016, 04:38:31 pm

It's really quite ironic that these people tend to hide behind a moniker of a "nationalist" most of the time, because such a world-view pretty much requires a deep lack of trust in their own nation.

In my case, it is a deep lack of trust that the internationalist agenda will not result in violent revolt and war that will kill countless thousands of innocent people. There are millions of people in Europe who will not accept the destruction of their cultural and national identities, and will fight to preserve them. Perhaps we should not poke the bear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 02, 2016, 06:18:17 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:11:54 pm

There are millions of people in Europe who will not accept the destruction of their cultural and national identities, and will fight to preserve them.

Disclaimer: I have no stake either way in this matter. With that out of the way, could you, perhaps, try to back such claims with statistics? It's really easy to use "millions have position X", and in fact it is used with quite some regularity, to try to strengthen an argument without actually backing that number.

Just... post some polls or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 02, 2016, 06:22:55 pm

I thought nationalism was something akin to American 'exceptionalism' or being patriotic, or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 06:31:54 pm

See, the trick is to turn immigrants into patriots too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 02, 2016, 06:32:23 pm

Nacionalism can range from "I love my country" to "outsiders are a threat to our existence".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on April 02, 2016, 06:34:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 02, 2016, 06:22:55 pm

I thought nationalism was something akin to American 'exceptionalism' or being patriotic, or something.

Nationalism is generally considred to be the idea that peoples of the same cultural and ethnic background should be the ones in charge of their country rather than others. It generally went hand hand in hand with forming said cultures, for example, most people in Italy did not speak modern Italian when Italy formed as a nation driven by nationalism. Before then it was Sardinian effectively. It was generally a leading force from the late 1800's to a little past the first world war in countries forming beyond colonialism, and it stands in contrast with Imperialism and Communism, where one would put ruling others as their responsibility to civilize and the other would be the idea that the working class should have political power until the communist revolution was complete.

Although in a sense I would argue that American 'exceptionalism' is a form of nationalism, but that's the subject of another topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:34:50 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 02, 2016, 06:18:17 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:11:54 pm

There are millions of people in Europe who will not accept the destruction of their cultural and national identities, and will fight to preserve them.

Disclaimer: I have no stake either way in this matter. With that out of the way, could you, perhaps, try to back such claims with statistics? It's really easy to use "millions have position X", and in fact it is used with quite some regularity, to try to strengthen an argument without actually backing that number.

Just... post some polls or something.

For one thing, there is considerable support for the Front National among the French military and police: http://www.liberation.fr/direct/element/plus-de-50-des-policiers-et-militaires-ont-vote-fn-en-2015_28175/

That's 200,000 or so likely people right there, working for the government of a single European country. Of course, that number is likely to increase if nothing changes. Overall FN support in France was about 7 million last election, and this is just France. There are a lot of nationalists in Europe these days, and their numbers will only grow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on April 02, 2016, 06:42:27 pm

That is 0.303% of the current population of France (66 million or so). I guess you can say that millions of people would support such a thing, but Europe has hundreds of millions of people in there, making millions  kinda  a drop in the bucket. (Current Europop is about 730 million)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 06:50:57 pm

> writes a definition of nationalism
> is contradicted by example of USA
> ignores because USA isn't in Europe

I think there are lessons to be learned, in both directions. Like, say, "gee, ostracizing people and denying them equality really isn't working so great" or "stimulus works far better than austerity" or "the FBI seems to have great success with entrapment!" (Ok, maybe that one isn't such a good lesson)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 02, 2016, 09:03:01 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2016, 04:00:53 pm

I don't see any internationalist rats. I just see a realist giving a fair warning.

I grow bored of pointing this out but the EU has been sabotaging the borders of European countries, threatening European countries who enforce their borders for as long as it's been able and has been pursuing policies for diversity for diversity's sake. Perhaps I should not even specify the EU, as this is just one component of the larger progressive moment that merely gained new toys with the European Union to play with. It is a plan achieving fruition. It was guest workers, it was a multicultural experiment, it was a Mediterranean boat crisis, it was an open asylum process, it was a libyan war, it was a syrian war e.t.c.
This is another globalist, making diversity for all nations, even those in the most remote regions of the planet. Why? Fuck you, diversity. Those in the UK will be familiar that our Labour gov under New Labour actively sought migrants from abroad for mass migration for the sole purpose of permanently changing the ethnic makeup of Britain, why? Because they wanted to permanently change the ethnic makeup of Britain for diversity. It's a very confusing thought process, but they hold diversity to be an inherent virtue and so pursue it irregardless of the consequences.
Or again, because it must bear repetition if it must, Germany. Why does Merkel block the classification of the Balkans as safe, whilst saying multiculturalism has failed? Why did she approve an open asylum border across all of Europe when even in her home country, the majority had said migration had gone too far? Why is it after she said Germany had to arrest the rate of migration she adopted the Samson plan, which would once more stop other European nations in addition to Germany from stopping this migration? How can she talk in one sentence of Germany losing her social core, and in the next plan for merely replacing illegal mass migration with regular legal mass migration?
How many decades, how many countries, how many politicians, how many speakers, how many think tanks, how many Guardian ops, how much does it take to show they did it on purpose and are proud of it? I know the ESI are proud of their timeline, I may seek to add to theirs.

Can you honestly hear him talking about peaceful Europe with a straight face in the age where our peaceful cities are bombed by terror cells we had ample warning were coming home? Where police will cover up the most horrendous atrocities in numbers that should be impossible because they do not want to harm the narrative, and rather than expose it the media will collude with them with Councillors - threatening victims with lethal and legal consequences? This is the Europe they made, that they want to preserve? Haha, I mean we need only look at how 26 years ago the notion of Europeans being replaced in Europe was laughable, impossible, the stuff of jokes, 10 years ago it had already happened in major cities like London, 1 year ago even for smaller counties like Skåne, to today where in 3 years by current rates (which are increasing), Germany as a whole nation could well be minority German once the over 20s die.
This is no realist giving a fair warning, this is the man in charge warning those who wish to stop him that they will fail, for his ilk are now so powerful they need not pretend anymore. That his opponents are now also powerful enough to stop his ilk's projects just makes things more interesting. One need only look at how they went from reframing the multicutural experiment to the refugee crisis, to changing the stats on the refugee crisis to diminish its impact as much as possible, to just outright having the most powerful bureaucrat in Europe saying you cannot reject diversity or your society will be brought down.

The thing I hate about this is they never asked anyone honestly if they wanted this, they decided it was best for them and they and their descendants would live with it for their ambition, and they would only reveal their intentions once everything could no longer be undone. I remember writing a few years earlier of how Europeans only wanted to act when it was out of their power to act, it seems I was wrong. I had thought the root cause was apathy, but over the years it just became abundantly clear that the same progressive school of thought that ran my nation runs Europe and beyond, and that European politicians acting only when it was out of their power to act has merely been the product of deliberate self-sabotage, with this going back before even 2013, before even 2008, before even 2000.

Also rather disturbing, Europe is easily diversified as there are few Europeans and what few are left are cancerous, but what is their plan for the likes of the Chinese?

Quote from: Morrigi on April 02, 2016, 06:11:54 pm

In my case, it is a deep lack of trust that the internationalist agenda will not result in violent revolt and war that will kill countless thousands of innocent people. There are millions of people in Europe who will not accept the destruction of their cultural and national identities, and will fight to preserve them. Perhaps we should not poke the bear.

Perhaps Eastern Europe, but the number of apathetic Europeans and supportive ones, especially amongst the heavily Uni-educated youth are both without ability or desire, being in favour of the internationalist agenda. I have long maintained that Europe's future will not be Europeans vs Migrants, but Migrants vs Migrants, as Europeans outside of the East are irrelevant, a mass of atoms. Irregardless, if any troubles go down it will be as civil decay, not war. The usual terrorism, honour killings, authoritarian ineptitude, ethnic tension and non-consensual enrichment that will result in the deaths of innocent factions killing innocent factions whilst the people who started it all lie long dead, probably having died peacefully in their sleep in a comfy American villas from old age. No matter what comes of newEurope, it cannot get to fighting, if it gets to that everyone loses. We can deal with rivers of blood as long as they don't become permanent fixtures, and fighting will not stop globalists at all. There is also the issue of what everyone is fighting for, what is at stake. For the most wealthy of European nations I think fighting over culture and national identity is at this point a mistake (hahaha the Swedenats getting attacked by Swedes after becoming progressive is hilarious). Least of all because the cultures at stake are not worth preserving for the cost of going up against gargantuan globalists (the intellectual elite have too much control over culture, unless you're a slav) and the national identities currentyearuope has created are frankly, retarded and designed for infighting and manipulation (yeah, unless you think it's important getting in the arena with Jihadists, Nazis and Progressives over who gets to call themselves Belgian). Haha, had that revelation when people shat on Britain for not integrating its Muslims enough, and when I looked into it our Jihadists were wealthy, well-educated and very clearly of British culture (complaining that native Arabs stole their shoes, roflmao). It's a fight worth fighting yeah, but you don't fight Stalin and Hitler at the same time, pick priorities. I place the priority on survival, first and foremost.

Put genetics, culture, history, religion, national identity, what else have you and chuck it all aside. The most important thing for a country is that it survives and prospers, is free from the paralysis of terrorism, corruption and crime, and that its people can conduct civil society without fear of their children being kidnapped. This is something which unites everyone, survival instinct. It's why our migrant, working class, middle class and financial class dropped progressives like a poison napalm potato, because all four are united by a common desire to make bread, eat bread, give bread and go on about life. Arrest the collapse of social care, the European economy, the rule of law and then, only then argue over all of the former. I do not believe there is any room at all to waste time fighting over things already lost.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/JbOkR1P.jpg)

Couldn't help myself  ;D

I always say you're never too late for damage control. There is a lot of opportunity for new Europe, any victories on the former shit will be pointless if the underlying system that got us here does not merely reproduce itself.
Banter is now in some parrts of Europe seen as a threat. Banter comes with challenges. But banter is humanity's destiny. There is not going to be, even in the remotest places of this planet, a nation that will not see banter in its future. That's where humanity is heading. And those politicians trying to sell to their electorates, a society that is exclusively composed of Unidruges of from one gulag, are trying to portray a future based on anti-banter that never existed, therefore that future will never be. Europe will be cheeki, like all other parts of the world will be breeki, the only question is how do we deal with that chikki brikki. And my answer to that is by ensuring that our ethics determine how we deal with banter, and not giving up our ethics to refuse banter. That will bring us down as a society, if we don't get this right, I truly believe Europe will not remain the Europe her ancestors built. Europe will not remain the religion of peace and freedom for very long.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2016, 03:41:11 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 06:31:54 pm

See, the trick is to turn immigrants into patriots too.

Simpler said than done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 04:07:39 am

Quote from: scriver on April 03, 2016, 03:41:11 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 02, 2016, 06:31:54 pm

See, the trick is to turn immigrants into patriots too.

Simpler said than done.

USA has managed that. Europe should be able to do that, as well. Otherwise, we would have to agree that Europe is somehow inferior to USA in conversion ability, and I know the resident "nationalists" won't accept that.

Really, if Russia was behaving like modern "nationalists" say their countries should behave (i.e. maximize the percentage of "your own culture" at all costs, including shutting down the borders and throwing all "other" people out, in order to "preserve" and "defend" it against the Enemy, i.e. Muslim hordes) throughout the history, our territory, population and, ironically, culture baggage would be, like, 90% smaller.

You know why the last one? Because most of Russian culture is a result of contact with other cultures. Hell, the region where my father is from, Stavropol', has its local culture of cossacks steal appropriate more than half of its culture traits from people that were living nearby (i.e. Circassians, Georgians, and others), and seamlessly integrate it with the rest of Russian ones. And that's characteristic of most of our border regions, really (if you account that most of them are now their own independent states...) - Russians, throughout the history, weren't shy of absorbing things from the others, if they found them pretty and useful.

I mean, our first postal system design has been stolen appropriated from Mongols wholesale. Our first guns and stone architecture designs has been stolen appropriated (with help of invited Italian and German engineers) from European states. Our first fleet's designs and the complementary production systems were stolen appropriated by Petr the First from the Netherlands. And that list can be continued for a long, long time.

But modern European "nationalists" somehow think that their own little cultures are above being changed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 03, 2016, 04:55:26 am

I personally think that the rise of the concept of the nation-state was one of the worst mistakes ever made by civilisation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 03, 2016, 06:20:28 am

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 06:35:44 am

Political correctness aside i'd like to point out that even the Borg didn't want to assimilate the Kazon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 03, 2016, 07:31:35 am

Poland is to intensify logging in Byalistok forest under the pretext of fighting spruce beetle. (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cc92ce4-f730-11e5-9afe-dd2472ea263d.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 07:40:53 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 03, 2016, 07:31:35 am

Byalistok (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cc92ce4-f730-11e5-9afe-dd2472ea263d.html)

Excuse me, but are you purposefuly using Yiddish here?
Bloody jewish inter-nationalists claiming our Białystok for themselves because of spruce beetle, hurr, if only we had someone to make Poland great again, durr.

EDIT:
Also the article is behind paywall, so...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2016, 07:59:19 am

Spoiler: wall of text (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 03, 2016, 04:55:26 am

I personally think that the rise of the concept of the nation-state was one of the worst mistakes ever made by civilisation.

And I for marxism, one cannot found civilization based off of ideology which by intent must destroy civilization.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 04:07:39 am

USA has managed that. Europe should be able to do that, as well. Otherwise, we would have to agree that Europe is somehow inferior to USA in conversion ability, and I know the resident "nationalists" won't accept that.

Assuming that Europe had not done her best to destroy her national identities, that Europe was isolated from the rest of the world as the USA is, and that the rate of migration to Europe was not so high as to render assimilation a process in the reverse - We cannot make patriots out of Europeans, you ask us to make patriots out of migrants too?

Quote from: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 04:07:39 am

Really, if Russia was behaving like modern "nationalists" say their countries should behave (i.e. maximize the percentage of "your own culture" at all costs, including shutting down the borders and throwing all "other" people out, in order to "preserve" and "defend" it against the Enemy, i.e. Muslim hordes) throughout the history, our territory, population and, ironically, culture baggage would be, like, 90% smaller.

Aye, yet your nation is clever in its cultural enrichment in that it maintains unity between people of shared history, morals and civilization. It is like the difference between Britain taking in migrants from the Commonwealth or from Sweden, only taking it by the millions with people who have no ties at all with their country of destination. The British had been more successful in this regard even when its mass migration was only producing rape gangs and Londonistan, as the vast majority of Commonwealth migrants were contributing greatly (actual enrichment).

Quote from: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 04:07:39 am

But modern European "nationalists" somehow think that their own little cultures are above being changed.

Sergarr, my neighbourhood is Jaimaca Road, Canada Water, Russia Docks, St. Olaf's court, Spice Islands, Mile End e.t.c.
It is the traditional destination for all new migrants first arriving in London. Yet what these people want is not cultural exchange or cultural enrichment, but wholesale abandonment and destruction of all cultures. It's why they spend so much time attacking all the great old figures of literature, science, history, music, religion and politics for being old white men, and it's why they attack those figures today for being old white men. It's why they propagated this mentality to abandon your own culture and divorce yourself from your traditions to indulge yourself in whatever you fancy. They won't stop with Europeans, they want diversity for everyone, even in the most remote regions of the planet and they are more than happy to resort to the means they used on Europe to make one homogeneous mass of consumers without culture, tradition or identity. I suspect the Arabs and Chinese will be next, they are already having their future leaders educated in the West. We intersectional now

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 04:30:57 am

LW, you advocate giving up the fight on cultural/national identity grounds, as the battle is already lost and because the fight for survival is more important. I'm not so sure about this. If you talk to people about the clash of cultures, and the very real damage it is causing (Cologne NYE, Rotherham and the culture of silence, etc), then you have ample evidence for that that people can easily recognise for themselves. And regardless of action or inaction, lots of people have strong feelings about it, about how they would like their country to be for their children and their children's children. Simply put, it's an argument that will reach people.

If it can reach people, great. But if that message has no action with it it's pointless, a fight that will merely result in more loss.

Look at this:

Quote

Here is a decent, ordinary fellow-Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that the country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking – not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history.

We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen.

For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country. They found their wives unable to obtain hospital beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places, their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition, their plans and prospects for the future defeated; at work they found that employers hesitated to apply to the immigrant worker the standards of discipline and competence required of the native-born worker; they began to hear, as time went by, more and more voices which told them that they were now the unwanted. On top of this, they now learn that a one-way privilege is to be established by Act of Parliament; a law which cannot, and is not intended to, operate to protect them or redress their grievances, is to be enacted to give the stranger, the disgruntled and the agent provocateur the power to pillory them for their private actions.

As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood". That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century. Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.

That was said 48 years ago at a time where 3/4 of Britain agreed with this speech, yet the man who said this was sacked and no one took any action of political significance, and what little action taken was unproductive thuggery. In today's Britain perhaps a political fight for national identity could take place, but it would have to be of the Commonwealth and through selective migration to economically benefit the UK. One of the great things about living in Londonistan is you meet many shekel wizards and one of them I met shekeled his way through both sides of the fence and kekeled at how irregardless of philosophy or politics, without cash no one can get anything done. This is the same principle, only with labour. It is notable that in the span of 50 years the British went from arguing over their highly disciplined work ethics not being upheld to migrants to the British arguing over the need for migrants and their highly disciplined work ethics not being upheld to the British. Grammar schools and trade schools will have to be brought back to make the British actually worth saving, on the level of cultural importance and of economic feasibility.
Don't wage a fight that's already lost, we are many decades much too late to preserve the cultures and identities of most European nations. Survival is a much more attainable goal, one everyone can get behind. Maybe also create a new national identity or merely rebrand the old one to have moral criteria, so moral Muslims and Yuropoors do not have to defend degenerates lel
Just consider for every rape gang there would've been at least two dozen Councillors, social service workers, sexual health workers, police officers, journalists and their managers covering it up. And who were these people? Some migrants probably, but the vast majority will have been Britons who were British and identified as British, and to them there would have been nothing less British than rejecting diversity, even if it meant covering up English children being used as sex slaves in the thousands.
Simply put, strong feelings are nothing more than feels. If our bid for independence fails as well, then things will get really complicated. For the likes of certain European nations like Belgium, Germany or Sweden, their decisions will be a great deal harder, and they were rarely ever in their hands to begin with. Alas, they are replaced now, but they still have a good half century to make good of it and ensure a cultural legacy, or a decade to sell all of their shit to die on a comfy island in the West. I do have another concern in fighting over national identity and culture, in that it can very quickly turn into this unproductive thuggery, where it does make the moral and righteous kill the moral and righteous.

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 04:30:57 am

By contrast, talking about a globalist agenda designed as... what, a long-term goal to re-enact Orwell's 1984? To destroy Europe? I'm not saying that it doesn't exist - there are certainly individual sociopaths with huge influence out there who are doing their part to make it happen (beyond those individuals and the self-abnegation that's become the latest fad/sickness among the chattering classes? I honestly don't know) - but it's not something people can see. It's not something they can even comprehend. Until you actually dig into this stuff, and I mean really dig, not spend five minutes looking at statistics about rape or read a PEW survey or whatever, then it just sounds like the usual indemonstrable conspiracy fluff.

If people cannot see their leaders speaking their intentions clearly... Wait, shit you're right no one reports it and no one listens
DAMN YOU YURIIIII
Doesn't help really that globalists control our media. Even our rw media is just rw globalism lol, it's like the pre-10 elections all over again where you got the choice to vote for three parties all pro-EU and pro mass migration.
Doesn't matter though, we Powell's Yurop, and people can very easily see the symptoms of failure even if they don't know who did it. Everyone knows of the financial crash or the multicultural experiment even if they don't know who to hold accountable, and both working Britons and Migrants did flock to the Tory banner under the message of not fucking this economy up or opening the door wide open, even if they don't understand what's being done (or why the Tories are fighting over the soul of their party).

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 04:30:57 am

Perhaps other stuff is more important than the preservation of our cultural and national identities at this point. But you won't reach people on those grounds. You yourself say that Europe doesn't act until its too late; perhaps the way to make people act about the thing it isn't too late for (survival) is to convince them they are acting for the thing that it IS too late for.

Consider how the Germans managed to move all of Germany towards opening the door for as many guest workers and refugees as possible, on the grounds that they were vital for Germany' survival. Didn't have to be true, Lord knows why they expected to use unskilled workers for skilled labour, but it was enough to motivate them - who opposed migration, into supporting it in numbers hitherto unseen in all of human history. Reaching people is of far less value than moving people to action, to work - to better themselves and their country. We will do far more benefit for our country by making it as wealthy and powerful as possible, the more it is the more our bid for independence can be maintained and the more control we will have over our dirt. With control over our dirt, whatever fights for culture and national identity can be had with relative ease and without battles leaving pen and paper for the sword. Most importantly we can repatriate gang rapists to rural backwaters, but we can't deport their far vaster support network to some Siberian backwater or Australian penal colony. Any battle over culture or national identity will naturally go against the intellectual elite on their home turf, with access to far vaster resources and political and international support on their side. Any battle over culture will either be won by them, or in time be re-appropriated and subverted by them. Survival is not their home turf, that is the realm of workers - inclusive of migrants. Consider how our left wing party betrayed the working class Britons in order to use migrants as their truncheon, yet they were abandoned by migrants who despised them for the goals they sought to achieve. Working Britons and Migrants united against the left-wing, whose support dwindled to the intellectual elite and bonkers Uni students, wholly dependent upon the people they despise for power. Why? Because not everyone shares the same national identity, shares the same culture, but all want to live in a Britain that prospers, and all want to prosper from it.
(Also do be aware, to never fight without an objective goal. Fighting for nebulous, mutable concepts as culture is almost certainly doomed to failure, as you will never know when you have won and will keep fighting until you have lost the ability to fight).
The Mongolslavs have the right idea, in that there is no point in a Russia that is Orthodox, Catholic, Sunni or whatever if it merely becomes like the West. Make a moral, functioning country that protects its independence, and eternally be vigilant over its external and internal threats, the rest will naturally follow.

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 04:30:57 am

You're not from Bermondsey, are you? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVIJKzuME-o)

Quote

My gripe is that we were never asked. My gripe is that we were told, not asked, and everyday we are told again and again how we are to be and how our country is to be. We are told by them, and we know who they are, they're English too. They are the class that has always set themselves apart, they are the class that has always taken what they wanted for themselves, and now they are the class that is giving England away.

See, that hits hard. Yet London is already given away to people like me. Can you touch the class that has always set themselves apart, held themselves above all England? For the most elite, the answer will be undoubtedly, no. And consider as well, it is no longer merely the intellectual elite who are proud to give England away, but all the urban intellectual youth of England who are proud to give England away.
I suppose it hits hard especially home as I live in Bermondsey, but I am not of it. I would like to see the English return but they are gone Covenant, and fighting to bring the extinct back is a waste of time that could be spent fighting for the living. Never forget that this migration is not an invasion because they were invited. You can't win this battle over culture or national identity for as long as your culture and national identity is inclusive of those who hate it.
(http://i.imgur.com/G2B9hNL.png)
Relevant (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg6906146#msg6906146)
Consider as well that of all Western European nations, the UK has the easiest fight.
Fuck knows how the rest are going to try handling it. Fuck knows if the UK's going to handle it as I hope either. Here's hoping though - fuck my shit up no longer fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:05:20 am

Quote from: Kot on April 03, 2016, 07:40:53 am

Also the article is behind paywall, so...

Obviously Jewish article.
It won't just settle on slandering you but wants you to pay to even see the slander!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:07:54 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:05:20 am

Obviously Jewish article.
It won't just settle on slandering you but wants you to pay to even see the slander!

Hitler did nothing wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2016, 08:13:02 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 03, 2016, 04:55:26 am

I personally think that the rise of the concept of the nation-state was one of the worst mistakes ever made by civilisation.

Do you think the Scandinavian countries are pretty nice places? That the Swedish Model is a good example for other countries? The idea of a nation working together for the sake of each other is at the very heart of that political philosophy. You do your part for your nation and your nation will do their part for you. Nationalism is one of the things that made Scandinavian states stand apart from other socialist philosophies and the "we must conquer the world for the proletariat!" line of thinking. But those systems only work as long as there is a strong and uniting bond of national community between citizens.

The idea of nation states is just that people of a shared culture, history, and experience should be ruled by people like themselves. Do you find this idea horrible or mistaken? I would not like to be ruled by Americans, for example, who would not understand our culture and heritage and historical bonds, and so make laws for me which to not fit our demeanour and interests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:15:17 am

Quote from: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:07:54 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:05:20 am

Obviously Jewish article.
It won't just settle on slandering you but wants you to pay to even see the slander!

Hitler did nothing wrong.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://kops.pl/old/comic/2011-05-04-294.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:19:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:15:17 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://kops.pl/old/comic/2011-05-04-294.png)

Never fails to crack me up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 08:50:31 am

Quote from: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:19:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:15:17 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://kops.pl/old/comic/2011-05-04-294.png)

Never fails to crack me up.

I don't get it, probably because I can't read Polish.

Though I sorta get something about a jewish superhero/villian stealing two cents or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:54:20 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 08:50:31 am

I don't get it, probably because I can't read Polish.

Though I sorta get something about a jewish superhero/villian stealing two cents or something.

1st panel:
Complete truth about Atlantis
Lecture led by Captain Israel.
Only facts confirmed by modern science!
Entry 5 ZŁ (as in, money)
2nd panel:
Atlantis doesn't exist.

And there we go Captain Israel flying off with all the Shekels he made.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 09:05:42 am

LW, I've noticed an unfortunately high amount of word "they" unaccompanied by definition of "they" in the nearby sentences. My reinforcement scheme tells me this may be an indicator for a conspiracy theorist. You should probably avoid looking like one of those guys.

Also, again with "diversity" being bad by default? Diversity is, literally, the most important parameter for any kind of system that hopes to be able to withstand a test of time. Low diversity means that any kind of sudden change in environmental parameters has a high chance of wiping said "low diversity" system out. You can even argue that this is exactly what's currently happening in Europe, as a result of a particular unity (European Union) dominating over such a great number of people - even a small crisis has managed to put the whole system at risk of failing.

You've just fallen for a word trap of re-definition, set by the bureaucrats of Europe, who say "diversity" without actually meaning any kind of real diversity, the one that would most definitely end their current hegemony over European states.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 10:02:54 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2016, 07:59:19 am

wall of text

So it has come to good old rivers of blood after all.

I would also like to expand a bit on question Sergarr already made regarding diversity/"diversity" and I'd like to aim it specifically at you, Loud Wispers: in your words we are seeing mainly a bad examples of forced diversity or kek cultural enrichment as you often put it, but surely there is a way to have multicultural society without any culture trampling over another? So what do you propose in stead of current format, as you seem sure that one has failed spectacularly? You have mentioned what could be done in some past posts like letting foreign people study here bond with locals and grow fond of country they are staying in, but what about here and now - what plans, if any, would save the Europe before the cataclysmic end-times you are sure to happen?

Asking because even though we here are just some random internet people who probably can't change anything but empty discussions about solutions sure beat empty discussion about imminent apocalypse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 03, 2016, 11:20:35 am

Multicultural societies are self-destructive unless there is a dominating culture that effectively causes the others to submit to it. This is why the system of the US is more or less working, while it's a miserable failure in Europe. However, Europe is already made up of dozens of countries, all with their own unique cultures. Why does it need more "diversity", especially from people who hate liberal European values? It's simply idiotic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 11:37:20 am

Diversity vs "diversity". One is two ore more different cultures living side by side in peace, other is a forced boiling pot, a mix of of either one dominant culture to thep oint of subjugating all other or a situation where neither culture is recognized fully and all you need is a bit of nationalistic nudge on either side to start the fun ethnic cleansing rollercoaster.

Of course, this is all incredibly vague as is the line between diversity and "diversity" as we should first define what it means "different" culture to begin with. Different religions living in the same country? People of different color? People who share both religion and color but are historically from different parts of the world? Doesn't do much good if we just brush it off with wide generalization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 11:47:35 am

Plus, even within a country there are variations in culture.

Probably the main reason why the US system more or less works is because we started out as an amaglamation and so, more culture input just adds to the amaglam already there. Probably an oversimplification, but yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on April 03, 2016, 11:56:16 am

Not to mention Germany as it is exists just fine despite the scars of the east-west divide. You can practically feel the air change in Berlin itself as you're walking around. So far as I know they've not come to blows over that sudden cultural diversity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 03, 2016, 12:47:54 pm

You can trace Merkel's refugee-accepting anti-wall stance (and her economic stances) straight back to growing up as a child in East Germany, with the Berlin Wall, living under communism with the Stasi spying on everything and everyone, and finally experiencing its economic collapse and the fall of the Wall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 03, 2016, 01:02:53 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 03, 2016, 08:07:54 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 08:05:20 am

Obviously Jewish article.
It won't just settle on slandering you but wants you to pay to even see the slander!

Hitler did nothing wrong.

I assume you are just shitposting, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 03, 2016, 01:03:39 pm

And that's a prime exemple of why I don't like the open shitposting in this thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 03, 2016, 01:05:12 pm

No, he's been brainjacked by Tay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2016, 01:56:43 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 09:05:42 am

LW, I've noticed an unfortunately high amount of word "they" unaccompanied by definition of "they" in the nearby sentences. My reinforcement scheme tells me this may be an indicator for a conspiracy theorist. You should probably avoid looking like one of those guys.

Do I look like I care m8
Slap me some tinfoil, it's just a pronoun and it's a lot easier than listing up all the think tanks, financiers, politicians and nameless blob of supporters, reporters and academics :P
And I specifically do not want to create the illusion that stopping the ESI or a single politician or even all of them or even the European Union would be a magic bullet, because this is a long term trend.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 03, 2016, 09:05:42 am

Also, again with "diversity" being bad by default? Diversity is, literally, the most important parameter for any kind of system that hopes to be able to withstand a test of time. Low diversity means that any kind of sudden change in environmental parameters has a high chance of wiping said "low diversity" system out. You can even argue that this is exactly what's currently happening in Europe, as a result of a particular unity (European Union) dominating over such a great number of people - even a small crisis has managed to put the whole system at risk of failing.
You've just fallen for a word trap of re-definition, set by the bureaucrats of Europe, who say "diversity" without actually meaning any kind of real diversity, the one that would most definitely end their current hegemony over European states.

I've fallen for nothing Sergarr, do you think I am against progress when I talk of progressivism? Do you think I am against conserving when I talk of conservatism? Do you think I am against cultural enrichment because I talk of cultural enrichment? Do you think I am against diversity when I talk of diversity? No, for the very simple reason that they all have their political usage and I use them because everyone is under no illusion what the words represent. I even stated the end goal is a homogeneous mass of consumers, homogeneity is the exact opposite of diversity, but we are not talking about diversity we are talking about "diversity."

Quote from: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 10:02:54 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2016, 07:59:19 am

wall of text

So it has come to good old rivers of blood after all.

Rivers of blood, whose gonnaaa live (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvHAhK8J7k)
Never thought I'd see the day where mainstream news peeps say Enoch Powell was right
shiggy diggy wat u doin its year of our current+1

I was watching someone interview him in the current year, the old guy. They asked him if he was happy with his legacy and he said he was happy to have made his voice heard, given that decades later his voice has resonated and he is vindicated. They asked him a second time the exact same question and he teared up and said he'd wished he died in the war. This is the price of failure.

Quote from: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 10:02:54 am

I would also like to expand a bit on question Sergarr already made regarding diversity/"diversity" and I'd like to aim it specifically at you, Loud Wispers: in your words we are seeing mainly a bad examples of forced diversity or kek cultural enrichment as you often put it, but surely there is a way to have multicultural society without any culture trampling over another?

Oh, their implementation of multiculturalism failed before, this is another thing entirely. You cannot even attempt to integrate people in such numbers that they replace the natives, there's no point even talking about multicultural strategies or the benefits and penalties of it in numbers this great. What is it, 1/4 in Britain are foreign born? Germany is three years off from having its own youth minorities?
There is a way to have a multicultural society, but it has to be with countries of multiple large ethnic/religious/cultural groups who have lived together for centuries or have had a long shared history. I mean it's worth noting that before the Holocaust the greatest existential threat German jews faced was the simple process of assimilation, they would have become as Kaifeng Jews, wearing Han clothes, traditions, surnames, names, religious practices and philosophy - being for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable from the Han. You will get more diversity from communities with strong geographical barriers in the same manner that all the Huguenots, Fulanis, Anglo-Saxons, Flems, Igbos, Malinese, Han, Nippon, Germans, Spaniards e.t.c. become one Braaaziiiiiiilllll goal goal goal
Or the same manner in which the melting pot forges from its crucible of diversity, one mass that is equal parts everything, yet is of none of those things. Just like all the Americans who are part Choctaw Indian, part Irish, part German, part Ghambian, and are none of these things. It is just a matter of numbers. Western intellectual Europeans have taken a fancy towards eradicating their own cultures though, and Western conservative Europeans have taken a fancy towards selling them, so I suspect much of their ancient traditions and cultures would have been lost irregardless of mass migration. Yet migration in such numbers that their children become minorities? Well, that's not cultural exchange, that's annihilation (in the sense of antimatter and matter colliding, leaving nothing). Or perhaps it will merely result in the strongest of cultures taking root, which is what I believe will happen.
Cultural exchange and conservation I have found to have been the best of systems. Small quantities of migrants, selective choosing of temporary workers or resident workers in small enough numbers that they do not displace those before them whilst enriching everything about their host culture (whilst providing economic incentive to do so and not creating migrant ghettoes), relaxed visas for students, foreign teachers (religious, academic and STEM) e.t.c.
Consider how London has always traditionally been affecting and influencing the cultures of all the people around it, from Southwestern England to the North, to Wales and Scotland and Ireland, to Scilly to the Islands and so on - yet it has never wholly consumed the cultures around it simply because geographical barriers have made it difficult for the cosmopolitan cultural juggernaut to erase them. Cultural exchange without total destruction, what is there not to love?

Well, you should also preference those common to your civilization and history. Europeans with Europeans, the vast array of Indian cultures with India, the vast array of cultures with the Commonwealth with Britain - notably with Britain having had migration from all across the Commonwealth for a century without issue, with the issues having arisen from:

• Native Britons going full retard, organizing and seeking mass migration
• Organizing those new migrants in communities to operate as communities, not individuals
• Teaching those communities to hate Britain for having brought them to Britain
• A lot of these migrants having come from areas within the Commonwealth that are not compatible with Britain at all.
• Pretending the British don't exist

Sikhs, Sunnis, Shias, Hindus, Yazidis, Jews, Catholics, Orthodox, Atheists, Apostates, Homosexuals e.t.c., most within the Commonwealth are compatible, it's notable even that Pakistanis have not traditionally been a problem until Labour sought migrants from rural Pakistan, with rural Pakistanis having made up most of the grooming gangs using English children as sex slaves due to them having spent most of their time in isolation developing culture entirely at odds with Britain. It was a simple issue of scale and selection, understandably when you give up any will or ability to control the scale or selection it grows out of control ;).

Quote from: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 10:02:54 am

So what do you propose in stead of current format, as you seem sure that one has failed spectacularly? You have mentioned what could be done in some past posts like letting foreign people study here bond with locals and grow fond of country they are staying in, but what about here and now - what plans, if any, would save the Europe before the cataclysmic end-times you are sure to happen?

I don't know; least not for the Western continent. All the plans I had before will not be sufficient or will simply fail if they were to be implemented now under the most optimistic of conditions. Actually I'd say the Germans are trying to do half the things that'd succeed, even if they're deliberately sabotaged by their kin. If they can bring migration down to 800,000 annual the Germans will still be fucked but their country could pull it off and prosper (with some debt and euroshekel magic) to leave a great legacy, they are already trying to reeducate new arrivals into being good lil progresiv (this will not work), but if they can integrate migrants with Germans through intermarriage they can sacrifice the Germans to ensure that in the future the lil kids afterwards will still be speaking German and will still walk around with the airs of Germans. May not be protties but they'd be losing a thing that's already dead so not much is lost there. And hey, is there any nicer way to ending a crisis than with true wuv? Blanda up for survival, or just have your own kids ya blady degenerates xD
But I said it before and I've said it again, there's no bloody point arguing over national identity, culture or whatever if Europe collapses, whether we live under a pozmopolitan or a Caliphate it won't matter if it's prosperous and it won't matter if it's in chaos, so let's make it prosperous. Might need to give up social services in the wealthy nations completely, reinforce the border, begin mass repatriations/deportations, keep the youngest of migrants if they want to stay and make them legally obliged to go into education to give them literacy and basic job skills - this will only allow them to enter competently into the most basic of jobs, but after decades of experience with a grasp of the native language they will be able to ascend higher in the job pyramid and their children will be able to enter into the most demanding, complex and influential jobs after them. That should get things back to a stable and prosperous Europe, though it will piss off both the marxists and the nationalists so it's not going to happen. There must be another way, but I'm still thinking. Honestly we should've just been more like Poland, prevention is the best cure.

Quote from: Sinistar on April 03, 2016, 10:02:54 am

Asking because even though we here are just some random internet people who probably can't change anything but empty discussions about solutions sure beat empty discussion about imminent apocalypse.

Aye to that

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 03, 2016, 12:47:54 pm

You can trace Merkel's refugee-accepting anti-wall stance (and her economic stances) straight back to growing up as a child in East Germany, with the Berlin Wall, living under communism with the Stasi spying on everything and everyone, and finally experiencing its economic collapse and the fall of the Wall.

FREUD GO HOME

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 01:58:47 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 03, 2016, 01:02:53 pm

I assume you are just shitposting, right?

Ye.
Though the question "why Yiddysh" was legitimate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 02:25:29 pm

@LW: As you imply, theres still the problem of the replacement rate being below the replacement level, which is mainly due to the aging population (baby boomers) and other factors. So, really, you guys DO need some immigration, just not in that amount.

As for the whole cultural thing, yeah it would be assimilation, but it sort of looks more like a battle of attrition at this early point because the migrants in general aren't assimilating into the cultures of the various countries for various reasons. It's also possible for elements of the other culture to seep into the main (NOT talking about sharia here), but that takes time and generations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 03, 2016, 02:52:30 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 02:25:29 pm

@LW: As you imply, theres still the problem of the replacement rate being below the replacement level, which is mainly due to the aging population (baby boomers) and other factors. So, really, you guys DO need some immigration, just not in that amount.

The hit from having an aged population is temporary, but it's not something any country on Earth is going to be able to prevent. Only postpone. It's the inevitable result of the demographic transition. Flinching away from the blow now will only make it worse in the future, but it's already well established that very few people actually care about the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

Quote

un equipo de más de 370 periodistas de un centenar de medios de 76 países ha estado analizando más de 11,5 millones de documentos internos del despacho de abogados panameño Mossack Fonseca, considerado uno de los cinco mayores registradores mundiales de sociedades 'offshore', especializadas en la evasión de impuestos.

Quote

"A team of 370 journalists from more than a hundred media enterprises has been analyzing more than 11,5 millions of confidential documents from the firm of the Panameñan lawyer Mossack Fonseca, regarded as one of the five biggest offshore society registerers, specialized in tax evasion

Brand news: it will likely take some time for this to get out to other countrie's media, but in Spain, a group of journalists has ended up uncovering a group of highly dubious "offshore companies" (you know the sort) that involves people from ALL OVER THE WORLD, including

- The King of Arabia and the crown prince.
- The sister of the King of Spain (senior)
- Both Vladimir Putin and the current president of Ukraine  (???)
- Leo Messi
- Jackie Chan
- The president of Iceland, as well as several ministers
- the son of Kofi Annan
- Several British MP


http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2016/04/03/57015f96e2704e830c8b45ad.html
http://www.eldiario.es/economia/implicada-trama-sociedades-fiscales-Panama_0_501500186.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 03, 2016, 05:43:21 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

- Jackie Chan

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 03, 2016, 07:14:38 pm

English language source. (http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4/)

The Unaoil thing, now this. Corruption seems to be running out of places to hide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 03, 2016, 07:17:26 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/03/472889872/massive-document-leak-reveals-offshore-accounts-of-world-leaders

NPR  article on it. Soooo many people are in for a shit storm.

Only 2 billion Putin?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 03, 2016, 07:25:16 pm

German-language article about Putin and the 'Roldugin network'. (http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56eff9f22f17ab0f205e636a/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 03, 2016, 07:39:44 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 03, 2016, 07:17:26 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/03/472889872/massive-document-leak-reveals-offshore-accounts-of-world-leaders

NPR  article on it. Soooo many people are in for a shit storm.

Only 2 billion Putin?

No one as rich as he is would be dumb enough to put all of his ill-gotten money in one account.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on April 03, 2016, 09:34:19 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

To a lot of people, for reasons that are beyond my ken, white/Western cultures/diversity != 'real' cultures/diversity. Or at least, if they are viewed as cultures or as diversity, they are to be denigrated rather than protected.

Funfact: I was looking at mods fro Stardew Valley and there is a popular diversity mod that basically repaints all characters to varying colors of nonwhite.
I think the only white persons left standing is the evil corporate manager and possibly your farmer.

That mod was fine but a mod that turned 2 non white characters white sparked a controversy.
It was quite amusing TBH.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

To a lot of people, for reasons that are beyond my ken, white/Western cultures/diversity != 'real' cultures/diversity. Or at least, if they are viewed as cultures or as diversity, they are to be denigrated rather than protected.

The reasons are simple, Covenant. White people are in power, and power is all the same. Or rather, white people in power, and the point of cultural diversity isn't diversity for the sake of diversity, it's diversity for the sake of giving power to those without it. In other words, (some) people view the question of 'what about white culture' or the comments about self-hating whites (in all honesty of everything being said here those are the most disturbing, on both a personal level(they disagree with me, obviously they're just brainwashed/stupid(if a black person is a Republican, obviously they're just stupid/an internalized racist) and a political level) as being similar to when a kid asks their parents why there isn't a Children's Day, if there's a Mother's Day and a Father's Day.

Also because diversity doesn't mean 'oh, there's a dozen or so technically different ones now, we're good, all set for variety now'. It means as many perspectives as possible. It's like giving everyone a vote, except it's memetics and mindsets being given a chance to influence people or put forth their points of view. I think.

Also tribal wars, tribal wars never help anything, I think that's why LW has shifted more and more towards sounding like a Reactionary. (Sorry bro, but you're only missing the use of the word Cathedral and discussions about genetic superiority of whites or something) Could be wrong. But yeah, when you associate 'X' with the 'enemy', you don't want to accept that it might have good sides, ever. If 'Western culture' is being celebrated by the rights, then the lefts obviously have to boo it. If 'welfare' is being celebrated by the lefts, then the rights obviously have to fight it. It's stupid, but groupthink is real, and it screws things worse then they already are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 04, 2016, 02:20:54 am

Quote from: Covenant on April 04, 2016, 02:00:41 am

'White people' are not in power, though. That implies that there is some sort of power that comes with being white, it isn't true at all. Are those with power powerful because they are white? No, they are in power because they are descended from the right families, because they inherited the right bank accounts and the right creditors and contacts. Power has nothing to do with skin colour.

Well, most people in power are white. As far as I know most people who want diversity do not deny that not white people as a whole are in power. The concept is so absurd that clarification normally is assumed to be not needed.

Quote

It's funny, and sad, that any talk of diversity and 'giving power to those without it' always starts and ends with superficial things like skin colour, gender, sexuality, etc, as opposed to wealth inequality, which actually matters. As I think LW may have said in the past, perhaps the reason for that is that many of the people espousing such 'diversity', who rail about 'white male privilege' are actually quite blessed with wealth, with real privilege themselves, and they don't want to acknowledge that.

First off:
No, people talking about diversity and "giving power to those without it" are not stopping at superficialities. They only stop there when the arguments already start even when they are only starting with superficialities.
When people start shouting as soon as these superficialities are mentioned it is hard to get to the deeper topics, no?

Second:
Privilege is relative and in the way it is used here, it is about hierarchies. Hierarchies, by their very definition, are partially ordered (see "directed acyclic graph").
Also hierarchies are not encompassing the whole life of everyone in it, but can be in relation to a certain area of life. That is, a single person can be part of multiple hierarchies.
So there is no such thing as an otherwise unqualified privileged person. It is always a privileged person in regard to something. I think most people (whatever their political affiliations or world view) do not realize this consciously or at least don't have it internalized enough.
In conclusion: Only because I am privileged does not mean I don't know what it is like to deal with not having privilege.

Third: I've never seen a leftist as obsessed with diversity as LW is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 04, 2016, 03:09:31 am

LW cannot be pigeonholed into left or right wing, because he isn't in the building at all, but is rather standing on a soapbox down the road with a placard saying "Everything Has Gone Rather Shit"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 04, 2016, 03:28:46 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 04, 2016, 02:20:54 am

Third: I've never seen a leftist as obsessed with diversity as LW is.

This. This very much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 04, 2016, 11:58:48 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2016, 01:56:43 pm

Thank you for extensive answer, I think it is all very well written and I appreciate your effort for making it. It is pretty conclusive so I for now cannot add anything to that discussion by the means of additional questions or opinions.

... it is pretty confusing how at times my own thinking seems incredibly akin to that of Loud Whispers'. Especially so because at other times I'm just incredibly annoyed with some of his posts.

If I would be a bit paranoid I'd say LW is just incredibly smart in a way so that when he wishes he constructs his post intentionally in such way he simply knows I would approve and thus I'm being sub-consciously led into agreeing with him all the while he just pulls strings and cackles madly looking how foolish posters like me fall in line docile like sheep. Not that I'm being paranoid, nu-uh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 12:03:12 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

- Both Vladimir Putin and the current president of Ukraine  (???)

We have a funny shitstorm in our media because of this :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Eisensturm on April 04, 2016, 12:17:26 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 12:03:12 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

- Both Vladimir Putin and the current president of Ukraine  (???)

We have a funny shitstorm in our media because of this :)

It must be awful. What do you think of your current president, Ranger? Stay or go?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 01:04:29 pm

Quote from: Eisensturm on April 04, 2016, 12:17:26 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 12:03:12 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

- Both Vladimir Putin and the current president of Ukraine  (???)

We have a funny shitstorm in our media because of this :)

It must be awful. What do you think of your current president, Ranger? Stay or go?

First of all, the case is very different to Putin's friend with two billions.

We have this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://www.hromadske.tv/images/doc/2/f/2fe272a-poroshenko-48.jpg)

The article below is a nice summary of the situation

Quote from: Kiev post article, avoiding paywall

The investigation raises questions about whether Poroshenko, whose fortune is estimated at close to $1 billion, violated Ukrainian law and evaded taxes in setting up the offshore firm through Mossack Fonseca, a Panamanian firm specializing in the registration of firms in tax havens.

Reacting to the investigation, lawyers, anti-corruption watchdogs and politicians accused Poroshenko of illegal and unethical business activity, violating the laws on property declarations and tax evasion. They also reminded the public that Poroshenko has not lived up to his 2014 election campaign promise of selling his Roshen confectionary business or transferring it to a blind trust.

Nonetheless, Poroshenko set off with an official visit to Japan on April 4.

He neither publicly addressed the nation nor posted a statement on the presidential website. Poroshenko posted on his Facebook page that “relevant consulting and law firms” would later give details on the issue.

What's the problem?

Poroshenko’s Prime Asset Partners was set up in August 2014. Offshore companies can be legal and are certainly a widespread practice for big Ukrainian businesses.

However, Poroshenko could have violated rules on income declarations, Inna Rudnyk of the Lavrynovych & Partners law firm and Ihor Chudovsky, president of the Chudovsky and Partners law firm, told the Kyiv Post.

Poroshenko did not include any foreign investments in his income and property declaration for 2014. Local officials can lose their jobs for such violations under Ukrainian law, Rudnyk said.

“His failure to declare his investment in the capital of an offshore company is a violation of anti-corruption standards,” Oleksiy Khmara, head of Transparency International Ukraine, said in a statement.

Avellum Partners, a law firm working for Poroshenko, claimed late on April 4 that the amount was not included because the shares do not have a face value. But the company’s documents indicate that the shares were worth $1,000, according to the OCCRP.

Avellum added that the offshore scheme was the only possible way to transfer Roshen’s assets to an international trust.

“The creation of a foreign entity doesn’t influence the payment of taxes by Roshen group, which keeps paying taxes under Ukrainian law,” Avellum said in a statement that also denies the president evaded paying any taxes.

Another possible violation is that article 103 of the Constitution bans the president from running a business, including opening an offshore company, Chudovsky and Viktor Chumak, an independent lawmaker, told the Kyiv Post.

Khmara argued that “the creation of businesses by (Poroshenko) while carrying out presidential functions is a direct violation of the Constitution.”

Moreover, article 14 of the law on preventing and fighting corruption requires the president to get rid of businesses and shares within 10 days after he is elected.

However, Rudnyk argued that “current law doesn’t limit Ukraine’s president from owning corporate shares.”

Poroshenko pledged to sell most of his businesses if elected as president as he was on May 25, 2014. In January, he told Deutsche Welle that he had transferred his shares in Roshen to a blind trust called the Rotchschild Trust.

But in March Poroshenko’s lawyers told the OCCRP that the transfer of Poroshenko’s assets to the blind trust was still under way.

“We elect a parliament of businessmen, we elect a businessman as president and then we expect them to stop doing business? Then we are naïve people,” Chumak said.

Yet another legal issue is whether Poroshenko has received a license from the National Bank of Ukraine to invest in Prime Asset Partners. The bank said on April 4 it cannot disclose this information.

Legal consequences

If Poroshenko violated the law, he can be impeached by the Verkhovna Rada under the Constitution, Chudovsky said. However, this is currently impossible because there is no impeachment law.

Yegor Sobolev, a lawmaker from the Samopomich Party, has called for impeaching Poroshenko over the accusations, while critical Poroshenko Bloc members Mustafa Nayyem and Sergii Leshchenko have proposed setting up a parliamentary commission to investigate the offshore scheme.

Vladyslav Kutsenko, a spokesman for the Prosecutor General’s Office, said that prosecutors do not have legal authority to investigate the president.

Chudovsky disagreed, arguing that the Prosecutor General’s Office has powers to investigate Poroshenko.

Kutsenko said that “the prosecutor’s office has investigated information on the president’s allegedly illegal activities and has found no crime.”

The Prosecutor General’s Office is seen as heavily dependent on the president, and Kutsenko has repeatedly lambasted Poroshenko’s critics.

But the National Anti-Corruption Bureau and the anti-corruption prosecutor’s office, which are seen as more independent, are planning to look into the offshore scheme, Ukraine’s chief anti-corruption prosecutor Nazar Kholodnytsky said on April 4.

Under the law, the bureau can investigate the scheme itself but cannot file a notice of suspicion or arrest the president.

Meanwhile, the authorities of the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand have opened investigations regarding the leaked data.

Political consequences

Ukraine loses $11.6 billion in state budget revenues due to offshore schemes per year, the OCCRP estimated.

Critics say that Poroshenko wasn’t being honest when using an offshore firm after claiming that business needs to be brought out of shadows.

Recent amendments to tax legislation put some restrictions on using offshore schemes, while still keeping this way of business registration lucrative, Rudnyk said. “The country's leader is putting the burden of filling the state budget on the shoulders of Ukrainian businessmen,” Rudnyk added.

Even the fact of being involved in the offshore scandal brought Iceland’s prime minister, Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, under massive pressure to quit. But Chumak, a lawmaker, said the scandal will hardly lead to any serious consequences for Poroshenko and his party regardless of the moral aspect of the issue. “In our society the moral standards are much lower,” he said.

Many political analysts say the scandal damages the president’s reputation, as well as the reputation of Ukraine on the international arena.

Yaroslav Yurchyshyn, a political analyst and expert at Transparency International Ukraine, said Poroshenko promised to campaign for de-oligarchization but instead is using offshore schemes.

“Taking into account the sensitivity of the corruption problem, the mere possibility of the president’s involvement in tax avoidance, making mistakes in the declaration and using offshore firms damages his image,” Yurchyshyn said.

Meanwhile, former coalition parties like Oleg Lyashko’s Radical Party and Yulia Tymoshenko’s Batkivshchyna Party will surely use the scandal to increase their ratings. Future partners in the coalition might raise their stakes in negotiations for the new parliament majority, and pressure might increase for early elections.

Yurchyshyn says news about Poroshenko’s offshore company hit the headlines at an awkward time for Kyiv, which is simultaneously campaigning against Eurosceptics in the Dutch referendum due on April 6, holding talks with the International Monetary Fund and facing accusations of slow reforms and a lack of results in fighting corruption.

“The position of Ukraine on the international arena has significantly weakened as President Poroshenko is the key representative of the country,” a Transparency International represenative said.

Oleksandr Palii, a political expert, believes that there will be no political consequences for the president.

“The fact that journalists did not find any bigger accusations against Poroshenko proves that he is quite a law-abiding citizen,” he said.

Meanwhile, Viktor Taran, who heads the Center for Political Studies and Analysis, says that what matters is how Poroshenko will behave in the future.

“If he says that this is 'a hybrid war' and he and his lawyers start explaining that he acted within the legal framework, that will ultimately politically destroy him,” Taran said. “Another option for him is to step out, recognize his guilt... and demonstrate that he has political will to destroy offshore legislation.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Eisensturm on April 04, 2016, 01:59:44 pm

Interesting. I understand the initial reports are mostly of how many times someones name might appear rather then how much money(if any) has been used in shady dealings. 2.6 Terrabytes in financial data is alot to skim through.

I guess Poroshenko gets a pass in my book(unless something else turns up).

Regarding Putin it would have been a great surprise if he or his associates had -not- turned up in these files. The world would have been absolutely shocked! "International Corruption Scandal where Russia not involved: World braces for flying pigs and frozen hells"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 04, 2016, 02:07:38 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 01:04:29 pm

"If Poroshenko violated the law, he can be impeached by the Verkhovna Rada under the Constitution, Chudovsky said. However, this is currently impossible because there is no impeachment law."

Not sure how that stops you because that didn't stop Nixon and Bill Clinton from being impeached and you guys impeached Yanukovich.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 04, 2016, 03:48:33 pm

Quote from: wiki

The action did not follow the impeachment process as specified by the Constitution of Ukraine (which would have involved formally charging the president with a crime, a review of the charge by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, and a three-fourths majority vote – i.e. at least 338 votes in favor – by the Rada); instead, the Verkhovna Rada declared that Yanukovych "withdrew from his duties in an unconstitutional manner" and cited "circumstances of extreme urgency" as the reason for early elections.

Sure if there will be political will to remove Poroshenko than he will go one way or another but I doubt it will happen.

Both society and elites are ready to tolerate some conflict of interests, borderline legal tax evasion schemes and broken "I will sell my business" promise because it is much better than a guy who stole billions from budget + Holding new presidential elections will add even more mess to already unstable political situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2016, 08:35:27 am

Quote from: Kot on April 03, 2016, 05:43:21 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 03, 2016, 05:41:22 pm

- Jackie Chan

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It's ok, he'll be fine

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 02:25:29 pm

@LW: As you imply, theres still the problem of the replacement rate being below the replacement level, which is mainly due to the aging population (baby boomers) and other factors. So, really, you guys DO need some immigration, just not in that amount.

No we don't, what we need is for the baby boomers to die and for workers to enter work. The former will happen as an inevitable consequence of time. Consider how Germany was sold mass migration to prop up their aging population, so they would not have to go through the effort of having children of their own. Yet by not selecting for migrants they brought the old and dependent of others to their country, straining their dwindling tax base further, and brought people who do not speak German, care about Germans, Germany, or are even capable of taking up the technical or highly skilled services that German labour demands, serving only to depreciate unskilled labour wages and serving to place two demographic bombs on the German tax base and social infrastructure in addition to replacing the German children with a diaspora of the world's diasporas. I have long wondered why instead of facing the consequences of their actions, certain Europeans have rationalized this as preferable because it means their children will pay the price whilst they will be dead, having lived comfortable lives with pensions paid in full. Assuming of course, this was migration of skilled workers filling jobs of high demand, and not just competition between workers that benefited only wealthy industrialists. The logic alone makes no sense to me. Do you honestly believe that cutting pensions as the Greeks did is somehow not preferable to this? It's very simple common sense, if they were having demographic problems to do with fiscal deficits why did they think adding a 50B strain on that with more demographic bombs would help? Well, it's simple - that's not the point, merely the talking point.

Quote from: smjjames on April 03, 2016, 02:25:29 pm

As for the whole cultural thing, yeah it would be assimilation, but it sort of looks more like a battle of attrition at this early point because the migrants in general aren't assimilating into the cultures of the various countries for various reasons. It's also possible for elements of the other culture to seep into the main (NOT talking about sharia here), but that takes time and generations.

Did you see my post a while back when one of our East End MPs was caught channeling council tax funds into our mosque and rigging elections?
Do you recall how in the span of two generations Europe managed to create a generation of Salafists far stricter than anything their parents ever were?
The numbers are too big, the main cultures hated by their hosts, hated by those expected to adopt them and have weakened to little of note and nothing most politically affluent Europeans and for that matter many Europeans are even proud of holding, let alone want to hold. This is not attrition because their cultures are not getting any weaker and their homelands are unaffected, and again I would refrain from using any hostile terms like battle because they were invited and that's a detail that cannot be forgotten. It's the most important lesson to learn and to remember, all of this was by invitation. Where I am from particularly colours my view because my local Uni has produced more ISIS fighters than any Uni in all of England. Rather less extreme is just the simple matter of influence; my area of London for example has a minimal, minority English presence of old English, despite being the birthplace of the Cockneys. As they've gone there has not been an influencing of the main culture with a newly arrived one, it's just been replacement, Whitechapel now being one of the most Islamic areas of London. I cannot even say without confidence that Islamic morality has not influenced me as - well, let's put it this way. Last week I went out with two groups of my friends due to the tube being utterly fucked, leaving me trapped on the wrong side of the city after I left the first group. Of the 14 close friends I was out with, only 4 ordered alcoholic drinks. Alcohol is absolutely haram, and degenerates gonna degenerate.
What changed?
Well, the unique culture that was was lost, but you can't bring it back and there's harm in trying something impossible when the sacrifices that would have to be made would result in no return. That loss was replaced by new culture, new religion and new people, life has gone on even with the rough bumps, which is a rather polite way of saying the fucked up shit has not got in the way for most men.

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

The hit from having an aged population is temporary, but it's not something any country on Earth is going to be able to prevent. Only postpone. It's the inevitable result of the demographic transition. Flinching away from the blow now will only make it worse in the future, but it's already well established that very few people actually care about the future.

Dude YOLO lmao

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

LW, I'm just too depressed to respond to your posts. I personally thought Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech wasn't one of his best moments (he was right, sure, but I just don't think it was that great of a speech compared to some of his other moments, like his remarks to Thatcher on the Falklands), but hearing about him saying he wished he'd died in the war just hits me in the feels. I grew up with my parents remarking from time to time about Enoch Powell being right, and it's terribly sad that a man with whom three-quarters of the public agreed with, who inspired hundreds of dockers and others to march on Westminster in protest on his behalf, was able to be made a sacrificial lamb so blatantly in the public eye. We should have known then, I suppose, that we'd end up here.

Oh, it's only natural to be acquainted with failure. Don't be depressed over it, I learned from an English school led by a hardy South African this: that of geniuses, talents and Olympians there are many in the world, yet of those who can take failure with grit and grow with it, that is rare. Likewise consider how Enoch Powell spent 50 years a political pariah whose name was used as a curse by Labour, yet from his failure 50 years on we have lessons to learn from him, his mistakes and his vindications alike. Is it sad? Yes, but he has served his use far better than he would have by dying in the war, and I suspect much of his own depression stems from watching it fall apart over so many decades as his own physical and mental health deteriorated with age - a natural and unavoidable process, as we age and grow weaker. And if you want to save Britons, the people, the culture or the nation, you're going to need a lot more work towards it than Powell's generation would have needed. If this sounds all demoralizing and defeatist that is just a product of things being quite shit now, but consider how on the other side of the fence a hundred years ago it was the marxists who must've been experiencing the same dread as they watched their life's works end in failure and the great revolutions in the West failing to ever materialize. So they set to work and kept working for generations and generations until long after their founders died they achieved this level of great political accomplishment, and so one can only assume it will take generations and generations to build over all that has been lost. Consider how bringing back trade schools and grammar schools could simultaneously reinstall the lost work ethic of Britain's youth and the attitude that no job is too small or too challenging - this would greatly advance the cause of preserving the British everything because there would be something worth preserving and people capable of preserving it, and in the way most effective, by providing people with the skills they need to improve themselves, find a job and start their own family. Good for the economy, good for the people, good for your fight - constructive solutions like this which advance your cause, instead of the destructive solutions that our marxist friends have been offering. They've gone about things prioritizing ideological objective first and function second, when securing your ideological objectives whilst leaving dysfunction is inherently doomed to catastrophic collapse. Of course it's more complicated than that, given the power of ideological and social control our modern society and media allows, Sweden is a great example of that -  but like Sweden, as soon as they stop being their little Shangri La it becomes a toss up between the strongest horse and the weakest horse, and there's plenty of opportunity amidst that too.

Point I'm trying to make is very similar to my criticisms with the EU, in that instead of seeking to prove itself by success it seeks to control others by fear. If you reject diversity we will make sure you do not know peace, whilst they should have been trying to prove accepting diversity makes you know peace. Seek success and it will fund itself in every literal and metaphorical sense of the word, just as long as you don't confuse it with commercial success and end up with everyone being too soft, like yoghurt.

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

He spoke about discrimination legislation being used to discriminate against the indigenous population, and 50 years later we have quotas, we have jobs openly advertised in places like Sweden saying 'No white males need apply'. How long until that's us?

That is us already, least in London anyways. I always tell everyone in London (especially white people) to specify when they're applying for higher education, training or careers to maximize their diversity points. So you're not white, you're a woman, you're a jew, you're gay e.t.c.
It does not make up for a lack of skill but it helps maximize your potential and your consideration

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

The reasons are simple, Covenant. White people are in power, and power is all the same. Or rather, white people in power, and the point of cultural diversity isn't diversity for the sake of diversity, it's diversity for the sake of giving power to those without it.

Hahahahahaha
That's the thing about simple statements like this, they let you get away with murder. Who are white people? What is power? And for sure, power is not the same lel, most importantly do these groupings have shared loyalty?
These questions are not rhetorical.
Too vague a statement without defined parameters to justify anything, so you can have a people who just had their country given away, are the lowest performing academically in their own country, are legally discriminated against in employment, are discriminated against by the police and are surrounded by a media which hates them and intellectual elite who find it distasteful to be associated with them. And it is especially problematic to be insinuating diversity is about giving away white people's power to minorities to wield over them whilst they get none of their home countries' power in return, unless you want Indonesian race riots or something. This is not a sustainable strategy unless you deliberately want to foster ethnic tensions, which conveniently was a practice the European colonials did when outnumbered by their subjects - merely make a minority incredibly powerful and give it mastery over the majority so they took all the flak. This thinking is untenable as soon as you think about it. Who decides who gains what military power? Who decides who gains what economic leverage? Who decides who gains what political positions, what technical jobs, what preferential Uni placements, what executive seats? Who is the arbiter?
These questions are rhetorical.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

In other words, (some) people view the question of 'what about white culture' or the comments about self-hating whites (in all honesty of everything being said here those are the most disturbing, on both a personal level(they disagree with me, obviously they're just brainwashed/stupid(if a black person is a Republican, obviously they're just stupid/an internalized racist) and a political level) as being similar to when a kid asks their parents why there isn't a Children's Day, if there's a Mother's Day and a Father's Day.

There is a difference between a progressive calling a black man or a hispanic man stupid race traitors because they voted for Trump because the progressives are fundamentally being racist by assuming all blacks and hispanics are illegal migrants and so to not show loyalty to illegal migrants is to be a traitor. Their actions do not align with the judgement. If you have however, white people trying to fake their ethnicity, shouting about how all white people should be killed, or how Thomas the Tank Engine is a colonial sexist racist straight white dictatorship that must be forcefully injected with diversity as written by a blond haired blue eyed straight white man whose heritage is so deep it's his surname who just *happens* to write about how white people are scum?

Purely coincidence then that one would come to the conclusion they are a self-hating white in their attempts to not be the anti-white matter that annihilates the white matter. One only has to see how much white people will attack each other over the fact that they are white, or that they invented the progressive stack for the purpose of marginalizing themselves. If you have trouble believing the shit exists outside of tumblr just walk into any Uni. I will never understand to this day how a room full of 20 white people can unironically call for violent uprising against white people, as if they are completely unaware of the fact that merely dying their hair purple does not unwhite their shit up. For some reason there seems to be no one on Earth who hates Europeans more than Europeans, and I want to understand this phenomena. Why does he want to kill the trains Mason?

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

Also because diversity doesn't mean 'oh, there's a dozen or so technically different ones now, we're good, all set for variety now'. It means as many perspectives as possible. It's like giving everyone a vote, except it's memetics and mindsets being given a chance to influence people or put forth their points of view. I think.

Yeah, that's why we put them through uniform ideological education, nothing speaks diverse perspectives like making difference contraband

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

Also tribal wars, tribal wars never help anything, I think that's why LW has shifted more and more towards sounding like a Reactionary. (Sorry bro, but you're only missing the use of the word Cathedral and discussions about genetic superiority of whites or something) Could be wrong.

I said it before, I don't give a shit what I sound like because I sound like something else to everyone. To you I sound like a Reactionary, to Covenant I sound like Tony Blair, to Sergarr I sound tinfoil and to Sheb I sound incomprehensible. I don't try to make my posts sound like something, as the style and prejudgements are entirely up to the reader.
Specifically on reactionary I don't know why you'd apologize unless you thought I found reactionary insulting, I don't call myself reactionary because I don't want to go back to the previous system or the previous status quo so I'm not. If I thought it could work I'd have no issue with it whatsoever, heck I'd still call myself progressive if the movement hadn't been hijacked by crazy marxists. Also genetics keeps coming up and I've just got this to say on where I stand with them; the Swedes had very good genetics, they made beautiful, diverse, strong and clever people - and today they are enamoured with the ugly, want to eradicate their differences, take pride in their weakness and act like gullible fools whose ambitions lie in suicide and childlessness.
This is why I question the sanity of ethnic nationalists who place their loyalty and their standards in the flesh and bone of information stored in proteins. Because it turns out even the highest of genetic bars is setting the bar, really, really low. Give me someone with weak genetics and I'll give you an Einstein or Hawking, give me someone with strong genetics and I'll give you a fuckup whose only achievements are dude weed lmao. One only has to look at the long line of talentless children born to legendary athletes or pathetic followups to shrewd statesmen (rip Jeb Bush) to see genetics are only half the story. I especially find it interesting how the Richard II's of the world are born with handicaps that force them to cultivate talent, ambition and personality to overcome those handicaps, on that deeper philosophical level - in the same manner that when Europe was in desperation it ruled the world, and in the same manner that when Europe was in luxury it sold the world.
Besides, good nutrition, physical and mental exercise is a much more manipulable and effective way to cultivate good physical and mental health attributes. I would like to continue preserving genetic diversity but there's no use wasting energy trying to get people who want to die or will bear no children to breed, that is a task more risky and much less rewarding than getting pandas to breed. Can you imagine the horror these chucklefucks would wreak if they decided en masse to produce as many children as their bits were able of churning out? From the ones who raised secular humanist children into Jihadis to the ones who demanded unquestioning obedience just because they liked Thomas the White Engine, or fucking hell all of Sweden's social experiments on their children... :P
Yeah it wouldn't be worth it if such a drive succeeded
Better to just let country workers repopulate

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2016, 12:48:09 am

But yeah, when you associate 'X' with the 'enemy', you don't want to accept that it might have good sides, ever. If 'Western culture' is being celebrated by the rights, then the lefts obviously have to boo it. If 'welfare' is being celebrated by the lefts, then the rights obviously have to fight it. It's stupid, but groupthink is real, and it screws things worse then they already are.

I don't see this in terms of left and right, especially given how the game was rigged so you had the choice between someone educated under Oxbridge marxists or someone educated under Oxbridge marxists. It's funny to see Ed Miliband attack the Bogolord only to have the Bogolord unveil the illusion that they were not the same stock. Right, left, they mean little, and I only use the term enemy for those who are actively seeking destruction, not merely for those who oppose lest the world become hostile as if through some magic trick :D
Such thinking is not sustainable, it would be much too taxing to be Putin without Putin's support staff, trying to gauge others not off of sincerity but capability.
At any rate I refuse to deny myself good ideas simply because my enemies have them. That way Jewish Physics lies, and I would not have ever stopped calling myself Progressive if I did not explore my opponents' ideas. London is a battleground of free ideas (even if that was not the intent) and perhaps the reason why I sound like something to everyone is because I have taken something from everyone. Marxists, nationalists, liberals, jihadis, dinocommunists, progressives, fundamentalists, evangelical secularists, and a multitude of foreign attitudes and class attitudes. As the wise Josef Stalin once said, we would not give our enemies guns, why would we give them ideas? I find he is onto something, but onto it in the authoritarian manner he is fond of. I see more value in how our enemies would not deprive themselves of good ideas, so why would we?

Quote from: Covenant on April 03, 2016, 09:18:25 pm

Though... I do wonder whether you're right about the end result of homogeneity.  Eventually, sure; perhaps that is the goal, in order to make selling to us and lying to us that much easier. But in the shorter term I can't help but wonder if it's an effort to divide us from those around us. Have you read the novel Battle Royale? It's better than the film adaptation, and it goes into more depth about the reasons behind the thing itself. Its depiction of societies made to fear each other, unable to trust and therefore unable to cooperate to rise up against its tyrants, seems like it could be a warning of our future - perhaps even our present. People aren't going to have time to pay attention to where their governments are embezzling all their taxes too if they're too busy being constantly pitted against the Somalian gang, the radical Muslims, the skinhead white British, the gypsies, whoever, in the next town over. Divide and conquer.

The two goals are not exclusive Cov, in the same way that American marxism pits black against white despite neither black nor white continuing any generic (not even distinct) african or european tradition or culture (beyond a petty consumerist St. Patrick's day way). Look at the great philosophies which underpin Western academic disciplines, that in turn teach most of the world's future leaders, their managers and those managers' workers. They teach all to see the world in terms of groups, that think and act alike and must have internal loyalty but cannot have tradition. These groups must attack those oppressing them, and the rest of the philosophies spend the rest of their time trying to create groups to aim at would be oppressors. Whilst the rest of the world teaches the importance of family these philosophies preach their destruction, leaving this fun in its place.

Quote from: Sheb on April 04, 2016, 03:28:46 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 04, 2016, 02:20:54 am

Third: I've never seen a leftist as obsessed with diversity as LW is.

This. This very much.

Do you read the Guardian? Do you listen to the EU? I don't know how you could willfully ignore the core principle of modern progressive strategy o_O

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 04, 2016, 03:09:31 am

LW cannot be pigeonholed into left or right wing, because he isn't in the building at all, but is rather standing on a soapbox down the road with a placard saying "Everything Has Gone Rather Shit"

Spoiler: Tfw (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/md62TKt.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 05, 2016, 09:38:26 am

On Polish social media, Polish women have called upon all Polish women to send all possible details about their menstruations to the prime minister and other conservative christian members of government, via email, Facebook and real mail, with the hashtag #TrudnyOkres

This, in reaction to the Polish prime minister's response to the bishops of Poland, who called upon the government to further restrict the already stern abortion laws, basically asking to make any form of abortion, even after rape and incest, or one to save woman's life from pregnancy complications, a criminally punishable offense. The Prime minister responded that as a good Christian, she will have to heed the bishops' call. So long for secularism in Poland I guess.
Her response already led to 1000s of women taking to the streets with coat hangers, a symbol of illegal abortions (before abortions were somewhat legalized, coat hangers were used to scrape a fetus from a womb).

The women calling for the action claim that "since the prime minister is planning to take control over our wombs, ovaries and vaginas, why not make it easier for them, and send them every little detail about our menstruations?"
The Polish government can expect many bloodsoaked tampons in their mailbox.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/poolse-vrouwen-laten-premier-voortaan-alles-over-ongesteldheid-weten~a4276173/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 05, 2016, 10:03:55 am

Apart from that the kind of mindset this requires doesn't help with making anything better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 10:11:55 am

Neither does doing nothing, tbh.
I also got this feeling I should somehow indicate that I, in fact, don't really get feelings to beat people often (and even when I do, I don't really plan to do so or rather actively work against doing so) and I, in fact, didin't really meant that seriously, if that isin't clear. Mostly a joke. Shitty dark joke but a joke.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 05, 2016, 10:27:45 am

I assumed as much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 05, 2016, 12:09:53 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

Badum-tish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 05, 2016, 12:28:39 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/05/iceland-prime-minister-resigns-over-panama-papers-revelations

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 05, 2016, 12:53:37 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

Left Alert!!!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 01:42:51 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 05, 2016, 12:53:37 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

Left Alert!!!

Nah, it's not because they're rich and we want everyone to be equally rich. It's because they're rich and we want to be rich too! And we want them dead. You can guess the rest from there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 05, 2016, 01:45:56 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 01:42:51 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 05, 2016, 12:53:37 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

Left Alert!!!

Nah, it's not because they're rich and we want everyone to be equally rich. It's because they're rich and we want to be rich too! And we want them dead. You can guess the rest from there.

A collective regime of peace and love?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 02:55:29 pm

Quote from: Baffler on April 05, 2016, 01:45:56 pm

A collective regime of peace and love?

The markets are free! So much money for me! Tell me, why should I care for peace and love?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 05, 2016, 03:11:35 pm

See, in these kinds of conversations I totally loose track of everything. I have no idea what you're even talking about. I assume it's shitposting again?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 03:13:41 pm

I am the man who arranges the blocks that descend upon me from up above. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 05, 2016, 04:08:19 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 03:13:41 pm

I am the man who arranges the blocks that descend upon me from up above. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8)

plus one, can recommend watching, had a good laugh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 05, 2016, 04:26:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

We could go for the roman solution. Proscription. Offer a cut of the wealth for the literal heads of the rich that are on a list and confiscate all their wealth. As a bonus we can nail their heads to the capital building and stab trumps tongue with needles after catching and decapitating him as he attempts to flee like Cicero. :P

Not serious but tempting in some ways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 05, 2016, 04:32:55 pm

Violence against wealthy and powerful people that are blamed for all the evil in the world (which is only a slight exaggeration) is always very tempting.
But the workers will rise! We will not compromise, for we know that the old regime must die!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2016, 04:49:58 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 05, 2016, 04:26:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 05, 2016, 09:59:34 am

Sometimes I get this feeling we should start start dragging politicians and rich people onto the streets and beating them up, but then I remember that, unlike them, we are held accountable for illegal activities.

We could go for the roman solution. Proscription.

Gee I dont know Brain. It sure sounds good but I dont know how would Prostitution solve our problems

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 05, 2016, 04:50:57 pm

Less frustration, probably.
It's a huge problem, you know?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 06, 2016, 04:04:12 am

So basically... Loud Whispers is the protagonist of some Lovecraftian story?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 06, 2016, 07:45:17 am

Well the Netherlands are having a referendum about the association treaty with Ukraine today.


Why some people choose the push for a referendum on exactly THIS issue is beyond me however.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2016, 08:19:12 am

It's just dumb. Some random media-horny guys from an online platform called GeenPeil thought it a good idea to force our government to waste millions of euros on a national referendum on the trade agreement with Ukraine. They got the required number of signatures to make it happen using social media, and now we have a referendum. The 'against' lobby is trying to make believe that the trade agreement is a step towards EU membership for the Ukraine, which is just not true.
They're just trying to make it look like voting no here is like voting against the EU, and they are handily playing that sentiment.

Sadly, most people who are going to vote haven't even read the trade agreement (which is understandable, since it's hard to read, dull legal stuff mostly about import and export taxes and calibrating tax and banking rules in an effort to make it easier to combat corruption).

I'm not a big fan of referenda, especially when they are about rather insignificant subjects that have no direct impact on your average voter, like the trade agreement with Ukraine. Which by the way, is very similar to trade agreements we already have with Morocco, Japan, Pakistan, and a couple dozen more countries, but about those you won't hear anyone screaming that those deals will lead to EU membership.

Putin for one will be sniggering when a Dutch majority votes no. The trade agreement we are voting about now is the same one that started the whole Maidan protest and the subsequent annexation of the Crimea. The former president of Ukraine decided not to sign the trade agreement, after which the Ukrainian people took to the streets and the president fled to Moscow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 06, 2016, 09:01:45 am

Well I voted in favour of the treaty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 06, 2016, 09:18:26 am

But did you vote in favor of the flavor?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 06, 2016, 09:21:19 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 06, 2016, 09:18:26 am

But did you vote in favor of the flavor?

I go for B: chocolate

final answer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2016, 11:28:59 am

In other news, the Spanish parliament has gone to the High Court, to file a lawsuit against the Spanish government.
The government led by Mariano Rajoy has refused parliamentary control and questioning ever since they have become demissionairized. This wednesday, the minister of internal affairs refused to appear in front of parliament to answer questions about some corruption cases, and about rising violence between gangs in Madrid. This was the third time a minister did not appear when summoned.

The government argues that they have no responsibility to answer to parliament, since the current parliament is not the one that put his government in office.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 06, 2016, 11:58:38 am

The constitutional court actually. It's a different organ from the high court

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 06, 2016, 12:01:23 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 06, 2016, 11:28:59 am

The government argues that they have no responsibility to answer to parliament, since the current parliament is not the one that put his government in office.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 06, 2016, 12:42:14 pm

The argument is that they're a stand-in goverment and are not actually making important decisions (blatant lies. They actually messed into significative stuff)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 06, 2016, 01:08:07 pm

Hehe. Reminds me of that time where we "didn't have a government" and still did stuff like bombing Libya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 06, 2016, 01:40:36 pm

Quote from: Antioch on April 06, 2016, 07:45:17 am

Well the Netherlands are having a referendum about the association treaty with Ukraine today.

Why some people choose the push for a referendum on exactly THIS issue is beyond me however.

I call it free PR for Russian money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2016, 06:34:38 pm

I have to apologize to the Ukrainian people of the Maidan revolution. With 32% of the voters showing up to vote, the Dutch referendum has become valid (with less then 30% showing up it would have been invalid).
61% of those who voted, voted against the trade agreement. Our prime minister has already said that he cannot deny this "convincing victory", and he will not be able to ratify the treaty in Brussels. So he'll have to go tell the EU to restart negotiations with the Ukraine.
Note that the referendum is a 'councelling referendum' and not a 'binding referendum'. This means that in theory, the government is allowed to completely disregard the outcome. However, our government coalition partners are likely way too scared of losing even more electorate to populist Geert Wilders, and it is not likely it will be disregarded.

I think they should however, seeing that 61% of 32% that actually went and voted means that really only 18% of our population of voting age voted against. Most stayed at home, either out of indifference, but many people stayed at home out of disgruntlement with the waste of millions of tax euros on a vague referendum, hoping the percentage of people going to vote would remain below 30%.

I do apologize for this 18% of my countries population that actually went and voted, and voted no. They screwed you over, and gave Putin a pat on the shoulder.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 06, 2016, 06:45:26 pm

Democracy sure feels not great when it gives out results that you don't want, eh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 06, 2016, 10:00:29 pm

It's happening! (http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2016/04/06/almost_half_of_icelandic_nation_now_want_the_pirate/)

These guys have always done better in Iceland than anywhere else, but I wonder what they'll do now that they've suddenly been catapulted out of irrelevance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 06, 2016, 10:08:37 pm

Quote from: Baffler on April 06, 2016, 10:00:29 pm

It's happening! (http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2016/04/06/almost_half_of_icelandic_nation_now_want_the_pirate/)

These guys have always done better in Iceland than anywhere else, but I wonder what they'll do now that they've suddenly been catapulted out of irrelevance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIs0S77RLk8
warning lots of flashing colors

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 07, 2016, 03:05:10 am

In before the USA invades Iceland to protect Hollywood video rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 07, 2016, 03:28:40 am

Why is that referendum even "valid" after 30%?

It's a advisory referendum, it doesn't "do" anything after becoming valid.

The only ACTUAL outcome is that most people didn't give a shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 07, 2016, 03:50:41 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 06, 2016, 06:45:26 pm

Democracy sure feels not great when it gives out results that you don't want, eh?

I don't see what a referendum where the uninformed are allowed to vote on a single topic has to do with democracy. Referenda like that are more a tool of anarchists, leading to contradiction and disrupting the functioning of a democraticalluy elected government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 07, 2016, 04:52:29 am

It's the very definition of "direct democracy". It's still not necessarily a good idea, but it's ridiculous to claim that it isn't democracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 07, 2016, 05:10:16 am

Quote from: Morrigi on April 07, 2016, 04:52:29 am

It's the very definition of "direct democracy". It's still not necessarily a good idea, but it's ridiculous to claim that it isn't democracy.

The actual result is that 68% of people thought it was a stupid referendum and decided not to vote.


Also if 6% of "yes" voters had decided NOT to vote, then the referendum would have suddenly been invalid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 06:38:45 am

I still that this referendum is a good thing because it attracts more attention to Ukraine. Delaying some stuff from the association is not critical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 07, 2016, 06:48:58 am

I'm willing to bet there is Russia support involved in this stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 07:41:51 am

Quote from: Antioch on April 07, 2016, 05:10:16 am

Quote from: Morrigi on April 07, 2016, 04:52:29 am

It's the very definition of "direct democracy". It's still not necessarily a good idea, but it's ridiculous to claim that it isn't democracy.

The actual result is that 68% of people thought it was a stupid referendum and decided not to vote.


Also if 6% of "yes" voters had decided NOT to vote, then the referendum would have suddenly been invalid.

About the "low voted turnout". Let's look at the most democratic country in the world, an undisputed #1 country in societal, technological, and economical progress:
(https://ballotpedia.org/wiki/images/3/3b/Voter_turnout_comparison.JPG)
Oh hey, it looks like their midterm turnout is only about 10% higher than of this referendum! And you know what, the Americans consider that enough to make the results of said elections completely valid AND binding.

In general, it seems that people only agree with democracy when it gives out results that they want. If it doesn't, suddenly people start inventing all kinds of excuses as to why "this time doesn't count", like "it may have been different if more people voted" or "it wouldn't count if less people voted".

Well tough luck, this is how democracy works. You have to vote in order to make it count. Otherwise it wouldn't be democracy, now would it? I've seen so many people from USA saying that you must vote, even if you don't think it will change anything, or if you think it's pointless - because if enough people think that way, then stuff like this referendum happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 07, 2016, 07:58:59 am

No in this case not voting would clearly have been the superior choice, since that would have invalidated the referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 07, 2016, 08:00:15 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 07:41:51 am

most democratic country in the world

[citation needed]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 07, 2016, 08:08:43 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 07:41:51 am

an undisputed #1 country in societal, technological, and economical progress

*Incessant cackling*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 07, 2016, 08:46:24 am

He's talking about Switzerland, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 07, 2016, 11:41:16 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 07:41:51 am

USA

Quote from: Kot on April 07, 2016, 08:08:43 am

*Incessant cackling*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 11:55:36 am

Quote from: scriver on April 07, 2016, 08:46:24 am

He's talking about Switzerland, right?

Switzerland is actually, historically speaking, quite undemocratic, relatively to both Europe and USA (which is #1 democracy and the best country in the world, which is obvious given that the computing device you're currently watching this message on was almost certainly made through utilization of American technology/know-how and with help of American financial organizations). They've only started allowing women to vote in 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage_in_Switzerland), after all, and only finished that process in 1990, only 26 years ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 07, 2016, 12:40:46 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 11:55:36 am

Quote from: scriver on April 07, 2016, 08:46:24 am

He's talking about Switzerland, right?

Switzerland is actually, historically speaking, quite undemocratic, relatively to both Europe and USA (which is #1 democracy and the best country in the world, which is obvious given that the computing device you're currently watching this message on was almost certainly made through utilization of American technology/know-how and with help of American financial organizations). They've only started allowing women to vote in 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage_in_Switzerland), after all, and only finished that process in 1990, only 26 years ago.

And we (as in both Russia and the US) established Womens Suffrage almost a hundred years ago 1917 (according to wiki, 1918 from this (http://womensuffrage.org/?page_id=69)) and 1920 respectively.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 07, 2016, 01:02:00 pm

Spoiler: MRW Russia is more democratic than Switzerland. (click to show/hide)

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/550/009/39a.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 01:10:49 pm

1) Democratic People Republic of Korea is a role model of democracy.
2) Russia is much closer to this ideal than pathetic Switzerland.
3) Russia is more democratic than Switzerland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:18:46 pm

Referendums might be the face of direct democracy, but that doesn't mean they make democracy as whole magically better or even "perfect". Despite this and that writing about how democracy should look, democracy doesn't really have a complete, comprehensive book of rules to follow and as such, obviously, is not immune to being misused, either by people inside or outside of the system. There is a reason why even "democratic" countries of today differ between each other, both regarding laws and ethical practices.

So all this talk about how democracy is good only when it does YOU good doesn't really help with making the problems of the system go away. So if we talk about what should be changed, personally I'd make voting compulsive, for starters. The most obvious and immediate objection to this would be by some freedom-of-everything supporters, telling you it's not all right to force people to be involved in democratic process as this tramples on their free will. But to that I can only answer that if there are rules about crime and punishment to follow, and said rules are there to ensure stable and fair society (that is, at least in theory), so should there be rules of every resident to get him or herself involved into ensuring society stays democratic. If it should be every person's right and duty to fight against unjust laws, why not go further?

But this, of course, still doesn't solve all problems. If only. There's the simple problem of sometimes, there are referendum propositions or maybe politicians to choose from that majority simply do not agree BUT they are not given the third or whatever option. What should you do in a system, which offers 2 choices but you are not satisfied with either BUT you also HAVE to vote? You cast in the "undecided" vote, usually. Which is a problem because null vote has zero power. So that's the problem. In order to further improve on the democratic process, we ought to give null votes equal power than all other votes. If everyone votes on elections, but only 50% of people vote for any candidate/option, while the rest vote disfavorably of all options - in case of parliamentary elections (that is, people vote parties that in turn take hold of power, for all those who are less familiar with this practice (like I'd guess our compatriots from USA)) that would basically mean vote of no confidence to all parties. Which in turn would mean that everyone would have to take few steps back and ask themselves what are they doing wrong when flat 50% of the country is opposed to them/proposed laws or whatever. Which in turn might make democratic process a lot more interesting.



BUT OF COURSE even this all doesn't mean democracy would always work. I mean, what to do in a case when 50 or more % are against law that not only you but many international communities deem as just? What to do when people totally legally elect a guy with funny mustache, bad fashion sense and questionable ethics? Making democratic system more fair or just mobilizing people to become more avtive in politics doesn't necessarily mean people will also become more SMART, yeah?

Well, that's just some ideas I had.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 07, 2016, 01:21:55 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:18:46 pm

elect a guy with funny mustache, bad fashion sense and questionable ethics

Oy, don't insult him. His fashion sense was glorious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 01:32:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 07, 2016, 12:40:46 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 11:55:36 am

Quote from: scriver on April 07, 2016, 08:46:24 am

He's talking about Switzerland, right?

Switzerland is actually, historically speaking, quite undemocratic, relatively to both Europe and USA (which is #1 democracy and the best country in the world, which is obvious given that the computing device you're currently watching this message on was almost certainly made through utilization of American technology/know-how and with help of American financial organizations). They've only started allowing women to vote in 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage_in_Switzerland), after all, and only finished that process in 1990, only 26 years ago.

And we (as in both Russia and the US) established Womens Suffrage almost a hundred years ago 1917 (according to wiki, 1918 from this (http://womensuffrage.org/?page_id=69)) and 1920 respectively.

That's a bad example, lol. USSR has declared to be many things, and on a lot of these, it delivered the exact opposite. It certainly wasn't a democracy, that's for sure. Even implicating it as such will provoke some highly negative (for the quality of discussion) reactions, as you can see in this thread.

As for democracy, technically speaking, it's a typical application of "lots of bad classifiers combined together make a better classifier" methodology. So the more people vote, the better it gets - so always vote, when you can, even if you think it's stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:38:54 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 07, 2016, 01:21:55 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:18:46 pm

elect a guy with funny mustache, bad fashion sense and questionable ethics

Oy, don't insult him. His fashion sense was glorious.

Spoiler: plz mister Hilter staph (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/hQn8e1K.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 07, 2016, 01:50:39 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:38:54 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 07, 2016, 01:21:55 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:18:46 pm

elect a guy with funny mustache, bad fashion sense and questionable ethics

Oy, don't insult him. His fashion sense was glorious.

Spoiler: plz mister Hilter staph (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/hQn8e1K.jpg)

Click here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBlQjYyB78k
and then click on Spoiler below

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

DISCO-GODWIN UNLOCKED!
(http://i.imgur.com/dTkdWwP.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 07, 2016, 02:14:55 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 01:10:49 pm

1) Democratic People Republic of Korea is a role model of democracy.
2) Russia is much closer to this ideal than pathetic Switzerland.
3) Russia is more democratic than Switzerland

1 good person is trusted secrets
2 sleeping person is not trusted secrets
3 those, who sleep are bad persons

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 07, 2016, 02:15:57 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 01:32:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 07, 2016, 12:40:46 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 07, 2016, 11:55:36 am

Quote from: scriver on April 07, 2016, 08:46:24 am

He's talking about Switzerland, right?

Switzerland is actually, historically speaking, quite undemocratic, relatively to both Europe and USA (which is #1 democracy and the best country in the world, which is obvious given that the computing device you're currently watching this message on was almost certainly made through utilization of American technology/know-how and with help of American financial organizations). They've only started allowing women to vote in 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage_in_Switzerland), after all, and only finished that process in 1990, only 26 years ago.

And we (as in both Russia and the US) established Womens Suffrage almost a hundred years ago 1917 (according to wiki, 1918 from this (http://womensuffrage.org/?page_id=69)) and 1920 respectively.

That's a bad example, lol. USSR has declared to be many things, and on a lot of these, it delivered the exact opposite. It certainly wasn't a democracy, that's for sure. Even implicating it as such will provoke some highly negative (for the quality of discussion) reactions, as you can see in this thread.

As for democracy, technically speaking, it's a typical application of "lots of bad classifiers combined together make a better classifier" methodology. So the more people vote, the better it gets - so always vote, when you can, even if you think it's stupid.

I knew it was during the revolution, but I didn't know whether that came from the Duma or something before the Monarchy got fully toppled or it was the Soviet government that did it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 07, 2016, 02:30:38 pm

It's not really that hard to connect both dots. IIRC it did happen before Monarchy got completly toppled but it was result of earlier revolution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 03:08:50 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 07, 2016, 01:50:39 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:38:54 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 07, 2016, 01:21:55 pm

Quote from: Sinistar on April 07, 2016, 01:18:46 pm

elect a guy with funny mustache, bad fashion sense and questionable ethics

Oy, don't insult him. His fashion sense was glorious.

Spoiler: plz mister Hilter staph (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/hQn8e1K.jpg)

Click here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBlQjYyB78k
and then click on Spoiler below

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

DISCO-GODWIN UNLOCKED!
(http://i.imgur.com/dTkdWwP.gif)

This is... strangely mesmerizing.

I've got nothing more to add.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 07, 2016, 03:48:56 pm

> we need compulsory voting
1. Elections cost money. Serve more people, more cost. More ballots, more ability to accommodate more people at a time, more machines, more poll monitors, etc.
2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.
3. Or you go vote in primaries but don't know shit about the choices. Someone will tell you who to vote for so you don't have to think about it though. Then in the general you vote party line like now.

Basically I think if someone's not voting they either find it difficult to get to the polls, or it takes too much time, or they don't think it accomplishes anything (say they're a Democrat in a heavily Republican state), and making voting compulsory wouldn't change any of that - it would just criminalize not voting.

Mind you, I've never experienced a non-us voting system. Maybe you're speculating about this for some place where there aren't poor people with limited access to voting, or where it doesn't break down to picking between two sometimes meaningful choices, or sometimes no choices (people running unopposed).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 07, 2016, 03:57:50 pm

My idea of choice is still to give ever silent or blank vote a place in the parliament-equivalent as well. If the parties can't bring enough support behind them to even create a combined majority, then they do not have mandate to rule.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 05:47:03 pm

 France fights prostitution by fining clients  (http://www.france24.com/en/20160406-france-prostitution-law-sex-workers-divided)
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 07, 2016, 06:41:14 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 07, 2016, 03:48:56 pm

2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.

As someone who lives in a country with compulsory voting, this is very much untrue.

You can vote out of state, or even in another country (embassy). Voting areas tend to be all over the place unless you are in a rural region, so most of the time you can just walk. If you are too sick/physically unable to move, you can just present a paper from a medic and they'll exempt you from it. And even if you cannot provide an appropriate excuse, you just need to pay a fine (which is in the low double digits, we're talking ~R$10 (conversion rate is around US$1 = R$3,6 right now) here).

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 05:47:03 pm

France fights prostitution by fining clients  (http://www.france24.com/en/20160406-france-prostitution-law-sex-workers-divided)
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.

Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 07, 2016, 07:38:38 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 07, 2016, 06:41:14 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 05:47:03 pm

France fights prostitution by fining clients  (http://www.france24.com/en/20160406-france-prostitution-law-sex-workers-divided)
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.

Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.

Then fight human trafficking and exploitation, not prostitution. Bans like this just re-inforce the notion that sex work is somehow special, separate from other types of work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 02:56:07 am

Well, it is not a job like any other. How would you feel if someone was refused benefits for failing to take up a prostitution job (As some tabloids were pretending happened in Germany) as opposed to failing to take up a job serving McBurgers?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 08, 2016, 03:03:15 am

Quote from: Teneb on April 07, 2016, 06:41:14 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 07, 2016, 03:48:56 pm

2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.

As someone who lives in a country with compulsory voting, this is very much untrue.

You can vote out of state, or even in another country (embassy). Voting areas tend to be all over the place unless you are in a rural region, so most of the time you can just walk. If you are too sick/physically unable to move, you can just present a paper from a medic and they'll exempt you from it. And even if you cannot provide an appropriate excuse, you just need to pay a fine (which is in the low double digits, we're talking ~R$10 (conversion rate is around US$1 = R$3,6 right now) here).

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 07, 2016, 05:47:03 pm

France fights prostitution by fining clients  (http://www.france24.com/en/20160406-france-prostitution-law-sex-workers-divided)
It is one of thing that confuses me so hard. Why any secular and liberal country need to fight prostitution? I fail to see any rational reason.

Because the prostitutes themselves rarely make much of a profit out of it. In fact, they got it pretty bad. Pimps, drug dealers, human traffickers and such are the ones who make most of the cash off of it.

Right. And I'm sure all that can be generalized to all countries  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 03:23:42 am

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 08, 2016, 05:04:01 am

Prostitution shouldn't be just another work. I am against most forms of legal sex industry because as soon as country starts taking taxes from something it becomes interested in more of it.

My problem with such fines is simple. Any kind of sex between consenting adults shouldn't be illegal in any secular country

What needs to be countered is forcing to prostitution. This fines will have an opposite effect, because it will cause more demand for underground brothels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 08, 2016, 05:19:51 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 03:23:42 am

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.

Is this concurrent boom correlated to the legalization of prostitution, or is there perhaps more correlation with the creation of Schengen open borders, turning every EU country into a human trafficking paradise? IIRC, we had our illegal prostitution under control pretty well in the Netherlands, before Schengen, with prostitution having been legal for decades.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 08, 2016, 08:07:22 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 02:56:07 am

Well, it is not a job like any other.

Okay, let me re-phrase: They reinforce the notion that prostitution is immoral, dirty work. It's a sublte (or not-so-subtle) way of separating prostitutes from 'proper women.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 08:11:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 08, 2016, 05:19:51 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 03:23:42 am

Gosh, apparently I lost my studies on the subject when my computer crashed. Basically, what most of them find is that while legalizing prostitution leads to a decrease of the percentage of prostitutes that are exploited, the concurrent boom in the sex industry means that in absolute term, human trafficking and the like increase.

Is this concurrent boom correlated to the legalization of prostitution, or is there perhaps more correlation with the creation of Schengen open borders, turning every EU country into a human trafficking paradise? IIRC, we had our illegal prostitution under control pretty well in the Netherlands, before Schengen, with prostitution having been legal for decades.

Was it? I though prostitution was only legalized in 2004?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 08, 2016, 10:26:10 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 07, 2016, 03:48:56 pm

> we need compulsory voting
1. Elections cost money. Serve more people, more cost. More ballots, more ability to accommodate more people at a time, more machines, more poll monitors, etc.
2. You have to work*, or you're out of state, out of the country, or sick, in the hospital, or don't have any way to get to your assigned voting site because you got no car and no money for public transport etc. Now you're a criminal for not voting.
3. Or you go vote in primaries but don't know shit about the choices. Someone will tell you who to vote for so you don't have to think about it though. Then in the general you vote party line like now.

Basically I think if someone's not voting they either find it difficult to get to the polls, or it takes too much time, or they don't think it accomplishes anything (say they're a Democrat in a heavily Republican state), and making voting compulsory wouldn't change any of that - it would just criminalize not voting.

Mind you, I've never experienced a non-us voting system. Maybe you're speculating about this for some place where there aren't poor people with limited access to voting, or where it doesn't break down to picking between two sometimes meaningful choices, or sometimes no choices (people running unopposed).

The way I see it:
1. I have never experienced voting sites being overburdened from where I come from, most of the time they could easily accommodate more people for the money they are currently getting. Could they accommodate all? That's a good question, I admit. We could found ourselves needing more money if we go that way, but that's a discussion for economists.
2. Pretty much what Teneb said, but also: even in my no-compulsory voting country you already have a system that let's you vote in advance/out of the country etc. If we just build on that to eliminate possible misuse and wrong accusation (in case of sickness, as you put it), I think the system could work.
3. True. As I said, even with such system in place, there is not automatic guarantee all of the people will actually think what they are voting for. I'd speculate that if they are being slightly forced (that is, compulsory voting), they might actually think about it more, but it is up in the air.


Regarding criminalizing prostitution: I think this is tackling the problem at the wrong end. If you want to decrease the prostitution in general,for whatever reasons, simply fining people won't do. I can see how it could help, because that way some people will be to scared to engage in/with prostitution, but on the other hand, as Ukrainian Ranger put it, those who wont be scared by the fines will probably be forced to pay even more for it which in turn would probably make the underground market even harsher as more money and more danger brings out more ruthless criminals to exploit the situation.
When it comes to paying for sex, we have to realize this is nothing new. Regarding this topic I've just recently read a comment somewhere that sex should be done only between people who love each other. And while such thinking is nice, it is a bit naive. Apart from procreating and love people also had sex for the sake of pure physical pleasure since before Babylon stood, pretty much. Paying for any sort of pleasure is just a few steps further down the line. Personally, I think it would be better if prostitution was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved. Of course you would not eradicate illegal activities totally, but it could be beneficial none the less. Still, there is some truth in what UR said - more money, even if it goes to the state, could still lead  to exploitation...

At best, I think any country trying to tackle with illegal prostitution should take a look at countries where prostitution is legalized, like Netherlands and Germany. Consider what are the benefits and downside of such system vs. complete ban on prostitution. That's my opinion, at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 08, 2016, 05:15:46 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 08, 2016, 08:11:47 am

Was it? I though prostitution was only legalized in 2004?

It was officially scrapped as a criminal offense in 2000 (a process started by parliament in 1981), but has had the same status as weed has ("gedoogd" = officially illegal, but no legal action taken against) since the 1970s.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 03:19:35 am

Should be noted too that the dutch implementation prevents non-EU people from working the sex trade, so all people from outside the EU are de facto working illegally.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 09, 2016, 04:52:23 am

Today a 7 year old Afghan refugee rescued himself and his fellow passengers, who were trapped in a truck container in the UK, and running out of oxygen.
Volunteers had handed out cellphones to refugees in the Calais woods, and this boy had one of them.
The kid sent this message to Liz Clegg, a British aid worker:

"I NED HALP DARIVAR NO STAP CAR NO OKSIJAN IN THE CAR NO SIGNAL IAM IN THE CANTENAR, IAM NO JOKAN VALLA."

The aid worker, recognizing the number as one of the phones she had helped distribute, realized this was no prank, and manage to decipher the message.
She then called the UK police from the US (she received the message while on a conerence in New York).
British police then used an Afghan interpreter to call the number, where the boy confirmed that they were trapped in a container and running out of oxygen.
The police traced the cell, and found an abandoned truck at the side of the highway near Leicestershire. In the truck, they found 16 migrants near suffocation.
Fourteen adults have been arrested for illegally entering the country, one adult has been arrested for human trafficking, and the boy, who was traveling with his older brother, has been placed in the care of child protective services.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 09, 2016, 04:57:17 am

Quote

I think it would be better if prostitution was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.

I think we look at the problem at very different angles. As I read your words I see something like this:

I think it would be better if homosexual(group, BDSM, whatever) sex was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.

What happens between consenting adults is not something that government should touch. Whatever they do before, during and after sex is their own matter.


Sex industry may use slavery and rape and it is a different problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 09, 2016, 05:08:53 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 03:19:35 am

Should be noted too that the dutch implementation prevents non-EU people from working the sex trade, so all people from outside the EU are de facto working illegally.

That'got nothing to do with prostitution, that's just standard EU rules on work visa. I guess it's just much much harder (read: impossible) to get a work visa for selling your body then it is to get visa for harvesting tomatoes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 05:13:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 09, 2016, 05:08:53 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 03:19:35 am

Should be noted too that the dutch implementation prevents non-EU people from working the sex trade, so all people from outside the EU are de facto working illegally.

That'got nothing to do with prostitution, that's just standard EU rules on work visa. I guess it's just much much harder (read: impossible) to get a work visa for selling your body then it is to get visa for harvesting tomatoes.

Yeah, but the end results is that a lot of prositutes (a majority of them according to some reports) fall outside of the regulated part of the industry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 09, 2016, 05:43:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 05:13:25 am

Yeah, but the end results is that a lot of prositutes (a majority of them according to some reports) fall outside of the regulated part of the industry.

Which brings us back to what I said earlier. This is a Schengen open borders problem, not a legalize prostitution or not problem. Before Schengen, we also had prostitution outside of the regulated part of the industry, but much much less. It was being brought back too, by installing more regulation and control, until the borders opened, after which it became uncombatable, despite legalization and concurrent regulation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 06:34:07 am

You got a source for that? I'm interested because I didn't read about that before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 09, 2016, 06:41:03 am

I heard most prostitutes are sex workers, but I'm still to find some definite data on the issue. Maybe someone could provide a link?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 09, 2016, 06:42:38 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 09, 2016, 04:57:17 am

Quote

I think it would be better if prostitution was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.

I think we look at the problem at very different angles. As I read your words I see something like this:

I think it would be better if homosexual(group, BDSM, whatever) sex was legalized because with certain regulations, health checks etc. it can potentially lead to more safety for everyone involved.

What happens between consenting adults is not something that government should touch. Whatever they do before, during and after sex is their own matter.


Sex industry may use slavery and rape and it is a different problem.

I... think there might be some misunderstanding between us here?

First of all, a lot of "western" countries don't classify homosexual/bsdm/group etc. sex as illegal activity to begin with (apart from bestiality but that's another matter). So I don't see why this is being discussed here unless we are talking about those countries where homosexual etc. sex is in fact illegal and we are speculating how it would be the best way to make it legal - in this case it seems we have the same opinion, because I too think that casual, consensual sex in general should not be regulated as it is bewteen every responsible adult to be, well, responsible about it.

What I am on about (and perhaps you are too but there's just some misunderstanding, as said) is that paying sex should be regulated. That is, instead of prosecuting it, make it legal because with that the state get's it's share and in return also provides security for people involved in the trade. Someone being exploited by employee is much more likely get a fair trial against said exploitation if he/she is involved in legal business than if it was illegal.
As I said before, this does not mean people in sex industry won't necessarily get exploited. It just means that people who are ok with being involved in sex trade can earn their money legally. Would legalizing sex trade cause exploitations in such trade to raise or decline? That is an interesting question and I'm quite interested in reading that paper Sheb mentioned. But another interesting question would be if not legalizing, how do you make illegal prostitution go away?

Unless you are against paying for sex strictly out of ethical/moral reasons. Which is also an interesting discussion material, but I fear kinda off-topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 07:06:39 am

To me, gun control might be a good analogy for the case to keep prostitution illegal. Plenty of people are responsible gun owners, who just like to have gun. But in Europe, we, by and large, have decided that restricting gun ownership generally would be beneficial because it help reduce the amount of bad stuff done with gun. Likewise, even if there is nothing wrong with prostitution per se (just as there is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership), we might decide it is better to reduce it anyway.

At this point, I should make clear that I don't really have a clear opinion of what's the best way to regulate it. I'm happy to let different countries experiment with different models.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 09, 2016, 07:08:22 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 07:06:39 am

-snip-

Point me to one European country with a complete ban on private gun ownership then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 07:11:12 am

You got a point. What if I talk of specific categories of guns though? Why don't we let people that enjoy such a thing fire machine guns?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 09, 2016, 07:30:00 am

Then your analogy fails, because I can start talking about specific types of prostitution - the banning of some of which may be advisable.

Also I'm not entirely sure that it's impossible for a private citizen to fire a machine-gun - maybe there is such an opportunity at army PR events, I dunno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 09, 2016, 07:53:18 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 09, 2016, 07:30:00 am

Then your analogy fails, because I can start talking about specific types of prostitution - the banning of some of which may be advisable.

Also I'm not entirely sure that it's impossible for a private citizen to fire a machine-gun - maybe there is such an opportunity at army PR events, I dunno.

Definitedly possible here at least.

Worth noting as well that in Switzerland IIRC all citizens are supposed to own an assault rifle as part of the military reserve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on April 09, 2016, 08:02:59 am

Also worth pointing out that they had, last I heard anyway, to pass by an armory to get ammo for the assault rifle. So it's kinda a way of controlling things still.

I guess in the sex work analogy it would be as though you could be a prostitute but can't have sex unless called to it by war. This had become a strange analogy.

Wouldn't it be better to talk about possible work safety regulation instead when it comes to sex work? I mean it would be something more directly applicable, and those do impose limits on what can be done on the job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 09, 2016, 09:03:26 am

That already is happening. Germany, for example, not requires all johns to wear condoms. Most of the coverage of this policy was speculation on the methods police would use to ensure compliance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 09, 2016, 10:03:26 am

Quote from: chaoticag on April 09, 2016, 08:02:59 am

Also worth pointing out that they had, last I heard anyway, to pass by an armory to get ammo for the assault rifle. So it's kinda a way of controlling things still.

I guess in the sex work analogy it would be as though you could be a prostitute but can't have sex unless called to it by war. This had become a strange analogy.

Wouldn't it be better to talk about possible work safety regulation instead when it comes to sex work? I mean it would be something more directly applicable, and those do impose limits on what can be done on the job.

Only government-issued ammunition is kept at armories in Switzerland. Commercial ammunition is a thing, and may be stored at home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 09, 2016, 10:19:04 am

Quote

is that paying sex should be regulated. That is, instead of prosecuting it, make it legal because with that the state get's it's share and in return also provides security for people involved in the trade. Someone being exploited by employee is much more likely get a fair trial against said exploitation if he/she is involved in legal business than if it was illegal.

OK, lets look at different types of prostitution and likely effect of treating them like just another business

I'd say there are three major models:

1) Exploitation (drug addicts, illegal migrants, sex slaves and more) : Legalization will do very little, because this kind of model is based on exploitation of girls and low price category. They will stay in shadows because else pimps will have to pay fair salary, taxes, health check fees and more, more, more.

Society need to punish both organizers and clients, because it is nothing but a form of a rape. Even if client didn't know that the prostitute he used is forced to service him. He is a rapist and should be treated like one. Fining is simply not enough

2) Just another kind of work. We have an owner\organizer who gets money from clients and pays salary. Workers are free to leave. It may be a brothel, escort service, strip club with "private dances" or any other model

Only very left or very feminist will call this "exploitation" Legalization does make this scheme more comfortable for clients and owners and may take some clients from category 1 but you need a strict control to filter category 1 that disguises itself as category 2.


3) Self-employed prostitutes
They work for themselves, may pay some money for assistance with finding clients or getting protection.

Legalization (aka you need a license, you need pay taxes...) and so on is BAD for them. I imagine work interview. "Let me see your papers? Hmm... You were a part time prostitute during your college days. Interesting. We will call you later"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 09, 2016, 11:16:50 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 09, 2016, 07:30:00 am

Then your analogy fails, because I can start talking about specific types of prostitution - the banning of some of which may be advisable.

Also I'm not entirely sure that it's impossible for a private citizen to fire a machine-gun - maybe there is such an opportunity at army PR events, I dunno.

Note to self: Create fully automatic water-cooled oil-cooled machine prostitute. (The sexy kind of oil, of course, not that black stuff!)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 09, 2016, 11:18:53 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 09, 2016, 10:19:04 am

-snip-

1. I agree, no questions here
2. agree too
3. undecided on this one though. I mean, it really depends, if one country suddenly legalizes prostitution where it wasn't historically part of that culture, at least in wide-spread, it-exist-but-we-don't-talk-about-it format, then yeah, any person working openly as a sex worker would very probably receive some sort negative reaction from community. It might go away in few years, it might not, depending on society. As far as work interviews go though, from my experience you don't have to list every job you worked for when applying, so from where I'm standing this is a moot point though I see what you are trying to say.

So in the end it all boils down how to prevent people from being exploited. Mind you, in ideal society? In ideal society you would not have to pay for sex because sex would be either something so easy to come by (which it already is, in some places) or people would be interesting in something more transcendent than lowly meat pleasures. Or maybe it would be society without money. Idealistic thinking, I know.
I'm also not quite sure how I feel about gun comparison. Guns are tools designed to project (lethal) force and while they can be used in self defense they can also very easily be uses for variety of misdeed where on the receiving end is usually not the gun owner but someone else. Where prostitution's aim is not generally that of getting it's client hurt. If anyone, it is usually the worker that get's it...

This is getting a bit long-winded but I think we can agree that the end goal should be people having decent lives, with decent income and not being exploited, one way or the other. *shrug*

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 09, 2016, 11:16:50 am

Note to self: Create fully automatic water-cooled oil-cooled machine prostitute. (The sexy kind of oil, of course, not that black stuff!)

YES

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 12:24:36 pm

Yeah, the question is "Can we prevent people from type one disguising as type 2 prostitution?" In some way keeping prostitution illegal makes it easier to fight against type 1 as it cannot disguise itself. Also, by making it legal, you create a bigger market, which mean in turn that there is more demand for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 09, 2016, 12:56:54 pm

How about state owned monopoly? It causes the "the state becomes interested in more prostitution" problem but it is much easier to control and regulate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 01:18:01 pm

That... Wouldn't be a bad idea, actually.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on April 09, 2016, 01:22:42 pm

Governments generally fuck us over, in any case. Its not much of a leap for them to literally fuck us... :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on April 09, 2016, 01:27:36 pm

It would probably be more practical, and easier to get past various political groups, to allow privately owned brothels selling sex services to exist, but require that they maintain strict minimum standards to be allowed to continue to operate.

A good general guideline would be making sure their workers get regular health checks, possibly the clientele as well, making sure they keep a client list, maintain a clean work environment and appropriate security.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on April 09, 2016, 01:28:52 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on April 09, 2016, 01:27:36 pm

It would probably be more practical, and easier to get past various political groups, to allow privately owned brothels selling sex services to exist, but require that they maintain strict minimum standards to be allowed to continue to operate.

A good general guideline would be making sure their workers get regular health checks, possibly the clientele as well, making sure they keep a client list, maintain a clean work environment and appropriate security.

Pretty sure there would be many volunteers to work for the department of sexual recreation as brothel inspectors to ensure standards are met, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 09, 2016, 01:29:48 pm

Wait, we weren't talking about state owned monopoly to begin with?

... Or am I misunderstanding something, again. State monopoly as in... every porn studio/brothel/whatever is under direct supervision of the state, no option for private companies delving into sex trade?
Ok, yeah, if that is the case, we didn't talk about that.
And it is an interesting proposition, yes. It does open a whole bunch of cans of worms like what with "the state shouldn't be involved into something that may be deemed immoral" that could easily be used as an attack point by more religious folks or even some that just deem sex immoral in general. But it is interesting idea...

I'm putting it on the "things to try" list for one day when I conquer the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 10, 2016, 09:32:13 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/one-woman-helped-the-mastermind-of-the-paris-attacks-the-other-turned-him-in/2016/04/10/66bce472-fc47-11e5-9140-e61d062438bb_story.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 10, 2016, 11:17:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 09, 2016, 12:24:36 pm

Yeah, the question is "Can we prevent people from type one disguising as type 2 prostitution?" In some way keeping prostitution illegal makes it easier to fight against type 1 as it cannot disguise itself. Also, by making it legal, you create a bigger market, which mean in turn that there is more demand for it.

I really don't get it. Is it really all that likely that legalizing prostitution would cause more people to make use of illegal prostitution? Taxation would cause more people to turn to breaking the law, in significant enough numbers, after apparently getting hooked enough on paying for sex to do it, to make things worse? As compared to black markets having to compete with legal brothels and consorts, so they couldn't charge as much?

What am I missing here, that the result could be completely counterintuitive to what I would, I think, reasonably expect?

I mean, America-related analogy, apologies, but I remember reading that the kingpin of one of the drug cartels thanked the American government for keeping the Drug War alive and well, since it meant he could make so much money off it.

Hell, Australia has legal prostitution, if I remember right. Which is really weird, considering some of the stuff that isn't legal there...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 10, 2016, 11:31:04 pm

... how do you exactly intend goverment-sponsored prostutution to work?  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 11, 2016, 02:17:03 am

Quote

I really don't get it. Is it really all that likely that legalizing prostitution would cause more people to make use of illegal prostitution? Taxation would cause more people to turn to breaking the law, in significant enough numbers, after apparently getting hooked enough on paying for sex to do it, to make things worse? As compared to black markets having to compete with legal brothels and consorts, so they couldn't charge as much?

Problem is that all usual schemes of exploiting women can work rather well in legal brothels. Narcotics, illegal migrants with fake documents, forcing or intimidating.

There are not many women who are ready to take this kind of job voluntary. Legalization increases supply but demand is increased even more.
To fill that huge demand you need to find ways to force women to work for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 11, 2016, 02:57:09 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 10, 2016, 11:17:28 pm

What UR said. The drug analogy fails, because when legalized its easy to produce a lot of drugs. It's not easy to produce a lot of prostitutes.

Also, it should be noted that the distinction between legal or not and moral or not is blurry. In the Netherlands, a lots of prostitutes are from outside the EU, working illegally, but they came knowing full well what they could expect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2016, 03:01:31 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 11, 2016, 02:57:09 am

working illegally, but they came knowing full well what they could expect.

Yeah, they know very well that if they fuck a couple of dozen strangers every night, that their familiy members back at home won't get assasinated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2016, 12:28:24 pm

The German justice department is looking if it is possible to charge tv-comedian Jan Böhmermann with a crime, as per request of the Turkish state.
The comedian recited a smear poem about Erdogan the 31st of march, in a television show called Neo Magazin Royal on the ZDF.
The research into the possibility will take a few days, the german government announced today.

According to Merkel, the freedom of the arts, and freedom of press are not negotiable, neither in Germany nor in foreign countries.
Government sources assure it has nothing to do with whether Merkel herself regards the poem as tasteless, nor has it anything to do with the negotiations with Turkey about the refugee crisis.

The comedian himself started his poem with the statement that what he was about to say, is illegal in Germany. The german justice department is researching whether this is true or not since the broadcast.

In the poem he sings how "Erdogan's balls stink like döner kebab, a pig's fart smells better". He also describes Erdogan as "a man who beats little girls while wearing a rubber mask", and "everyone from Ankara to Istanbul knows that man is homosexual", and "he prefers to fuck a goat while surpressing minorities".

The ZDF channel itself removed the broadcast from it's website, because, according to the director of ZDF it "did not comply with out channel's quality demand for satire".

On social media, Jan Böhmermann himself has 'humbly' apologized for 'damaging a flawless democrat'.
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/jan-boehmermann-entschuldigt-sich-fuer-erdogan-gedicht-a-1085129.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/german-comedian-jan-b-hmermann-could-face-prison-for-insulting-smear-poem-against-turkish-president-a6972356.html

Jan Böhmermann reciting the poem: https://player.vimeo.com/video/161343723
full text:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 ENGLISH TEXT:
 Abusive Criticism
 
 Ballsgoofy, cowardly and jammed is Erdogan the president!
 His balls are stinking bad from doener even a pigfart smells nicer.
 He is the man that kicks the girls while wearing rubbermasks.
 He prefers to fuck a goat while suppressing minorities .
Kicks Kurds, slaps Christians while watching childporn
 and even in the evening instead of sleeping, fellatio with hundred sheep.
 Yes Erdogan is fully a President with a small dick.
 You hear every Turk whisper, the stupid pig has shrunken balls.
 From Ankara to Istanbul everyone knows this man is gay.
 Pervers, lousy and zoophile Recep Fritzl Priklopil .
 His Head is empty as his balls , the star of every gangbang party,
 until his dick burns when he pisses, that is Recep Erdogan President of Turkey!
 
 
 GERMAN TEXT:
 SCHMÄHKRITIK
 
 Sackdoof feige und verklemmt ist Erdogan der Präsident!
 Sein Gelöt stinkt schlimm nach Döner, selbst ein Schweinefurz
 riecht schöner.
 Er ist der Mann der Mädchen schlägt und dabei Gummimasken trägt.
 Am liebsten mag er Ziegen ficken und Minderheiten unterdrücken.
 Kurden treten, Christen hauen und dabei Kinderporno schauen
 und selbst Abends heissts statt schlafen, felazio mit hundert Schafen.
 Ja Erdogan is voll und ganz ein Präsident mit kleinem Schwanz.
 Jeden Türken hört man flöten die dumme Sau hat Schrumpelklöten.
 Von Ankara bis Istanbul weiss jeder dieser Mann ist schwul.
 Pervers, verlaust und zoophil Recep Fritzl Priklopil.
 Sein Kopf so leer wie seine Eier, der Star auf jeder Gangbangfeier,
 bis der Schwanz beim pinklen brennt, das ist Recep Erdogan der türkische
 Präsident!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 11, 2016, 12:40:23 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2016, 03:01:31 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 11, 2016, 02:57:09 am

working illegally, but they came knowing full well what they could expect.

Yeah, they know very well that if they fuck a couple of dozen strangers every night, that their familiy members back at home won't get assasinated.

While it's the case for some, you also have girls that decide that the money is worth it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 03:36:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2016, 12:28:24 pm

The comedian recited a smear poem about Erdogan the 31st of march,

Poem is an overstatement. It was really just a smear. Calling a Turkish guy a goat-fucker? Seriously? This is not art, this is not satire, it's libel, plain and simple. Böhmermann knew that, and him getting off without some form of guilty verdict would be an insult to our Rechtsstaat. Popularity and day-to-day politics shouldn't dictate the outcome of judicial decisions.

I'm reasonably sure that if he had called Obama a 'banana-loving nigger faggot' the same people rushing to his defense right now would be clamoring for his head.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 11, 2016, 03:42:19 pm

Isn't it Erdogan's lawyers' job to sue him?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 11, 2016, 03:46:17 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-asks-germany-to-charge-comedian-jan-bohmermann-for-recep-tayyip-erdogan-insults/

Erdogan is sly, REALLY sly. IMO they shouldn't because that'll just set up a precedent where Erdogan is able to push around Europe to get what he wants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 11, 2016, 04:04:26 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 03:36:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2016, 12:28:24 pm

The comedian recited a smear poem about Erdogan the 31st of march,

Poem is an overstatement. It was really just a smear. Calling a Turkish guy a goat-fucker? Seriously? This is not art, this is not satire, it's libel, plain and simple. Böhmermann knew that, and him getting off without some form of guilty verdict would be an insult to our Rechtsstaat. Popularity and day-to-day politics shouldn't dictate the outcome of judicial decisions.

I'm reasonably sure that if he had called Obama a 'banana-loving nigger faggot' the same people rushing to his defense right now would be clamoring for his head.

It's not a poem, yes. It's also incredibly tasteless, I agree.
But I think it was totally worth it. Erdogan deserves every bit of shit smeared on him and I applaud Böhmermann for risking his career to do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on April 11, 2016, 04:11:53 pm

That is not a poem and really there IS a libel claim probably.

Not to say that I like Erdogan.

But that's just not right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 11, 2016, 04:17:15 pm

http://europe.newsweek.com/muslims-are-creating-nations-within-nations-says-former-head-uk-equalities-446163?rm=eu

Quote

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, has admitted he “got almost everything wrong” regarding immigration in a new report, claiming Muslims are creating “nations within nations” in the West.

Phillips says followers of Islam hold very different values from the rest of society and many want to lead separate lives.

The former head of the U.K.’s equalities watchdog also advocates the monitoring of ethnic minority populations on housing estates to stop them becoming “ghetto villages.”

Well then. This is a pretty serious move against the established EU narrative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 04:52:16 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 11, 2016, 04:04:26 pm

But I think it was totally worth it. Erdogan deserves every bit of shit smeared on him and I applaud Böhmermann for risking his career to do so.

So committing (certain) crimes against people is okay as long as they're the right people? Seriously?

Also, risking his carreer? Psht, far from it. The Böhmercrowd will just keep lapping it up, hailing him as a genius of satire - just like they did during Varoufake. His idea there is remarkably similar to his idea here, if you think about it: Go far beyond reasonable or desirable limits of discourse, get called out on it, ride the wave of attention, receive a great amount of support from people who like his politics, and then just sort of sweep the original transgression under the carpet because satire totally doesn't have to adhere to any rules at all, and you're a neo-fascist, a stuck-up establishmentarian, or just severely lacking in humor if you suggest anything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 11, 2016, 05:01:09 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on April 11, 2016, 04:11:53 pm

That is not a poem and really there IS a libel claim probably.

Not to say that I like Erdogan.

But that's just not right.

When you persecute literally 2000 people for insulting you, then you deserve to be insulted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 05:14:01 pm

Quote from: Antioch on April 11, 2016, 05:01:09 pm

When you persecute literally 2000 people for insulting you, then you deserve to be insulted.

If you kill a lot of people, you deserve to die? Go buy a rifle and hunt down Erdogan, then, because insultng him is not nearly enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 11, 2016, 07:39:57 pm

ya i don't really have any sympathy for the glorious eternal leader of the Turkish caliphate and given what he has been doing he is literally no better than a medieval monarch when it comes of censorship of people who don't like him. Ataturk is probably rolling in his grave. maybe its my American-niss showing. we have a long and glorious tradition of constantly insulting and hating our head of state and members of government and no one gives a flying fuck about it. its a pillar of our democracy dammit that every president is the antichrist and literally hitter to half the population at any given time. it keeps anyone from gaining to much support.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2016, 10:58:57 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 05:14:01 pm

Quote from: Antioch on April 11, 2016, 05:01:09 pm

When you persecute literally 2000 people for insulting you, then you deserve to be insulted.

If you kill a lot of people, you deserve to die? Go buy a rifle and hunt down Erdogan, then, because insultng him is not nearly enough.

Flawless logic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 11, 2016, 11:09:10 pm

They say there's no such thing as bad tactics...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 12, 2016, 02:22:05 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 04:52:16 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 11, 2016, 04:04:26 pm

But I think it was totally worth it. Erdogan deserves every bit of shit smeared on him and I applaud Böhmermann for risking his career to do so.

So committing (certain) crimes against people is okay as long as they're the right people? Seriously?

Also, risking his carreer? Psht, far from it. The Böhmercrowd will just keep lapping it up, hailing him as a genius of satire - just like they did during Varoufake. His idea there is remarkably similar to his idea here, if you think about it: Go far beyond reasonable or desirable limits of discourse, get called out on it, ride the wave of attention, receive a great amount of support from people who like his politics, and then just sort of sweep the original transgression under the carpet because satire totally doesn't have to adhere to any rules at all, and you're a neo-fascist, a stuck-up establishmentarian, or just severely lacking in humor if you suggest anything else.

The Varoufake thing was only possible due to how damn sloppy our journalists are working, so I say good he exposed that. Again. After already doing it. It seems the journalists who are so adamant on how important they are because of how well-researched their work is are incapable of learning even when they're shown up for it over and over again.

Good, "risking his career" he might not be.

And yes, in regards to libel laws, breaking them is a perfectly fine form of protest. There are many laws that are fine to be broken as a form of protest – of course, that doesn't protect you from judicial consequences. I don't see Böhmermann trying to avoid those, even if he seems a bit surprised.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 12, 2016, 02:23:05 am

What's that Varoufake thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 02:24:17 am

It is a tasteless poem. A poem nonetheless. It rhymes, and it has metric (at least the german original version does).
It should fall completely under the freedom of arts. If this guy gets convicted for this, it's a big loss for the german constitutional state.

It's tasteless nonetheless, and infantile. It deserves a lot of criticism. But no legal action.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 12, 2016, 02:25:27 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 12, 2016, 02:23:05 am

What's that Varoufake thing?

apparently Bohmermann manipulated/photogram-selected a picture in which Varoufakis seemed to be giving a katapygon "to Germany/EU/(insert target here)".  Turned out to be fake, but not before it was reported around by more mainstream press

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/19/i-faked-the-yanis-varoufakis-middle-finger-video-says-german-tv-presenter


EDIT: or maybe it wasn't faked? http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/giving-germany-the-middle-finger/388204/

Much confusion. so wow
So apparently a video in which Varoufakis might or might not have been giving the finger to the world was claimed by Bohrman as a fake. Which turned out to be not true. So it was a fake fake fake?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 04:33:32 am

Today, the Turkish vice-premier Numan Kurtulmus called the poem a "crime against humanity".

Hear, hear!

The german Justice department has already stated that they are not planning on convicting Böhmermann. If they get the assignment to prosectute from the government, they will only persue that to answer the question if he is guilty, but they will refuse to convict.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 12, 2016, 04:52:26 am

Hate leaflets calling for killing of Ahmadi Muslims distributed across London (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hate-leaflets-calling-killing-ahmadi-muslims-distributed-across-london-1553591).

Quote

Leaflets calling for members of the Ahmadi Muslim community to be killed have allegedly been distributed in universities, mosques and shopping centres in London.

Followers of the Muslim Ahmadi sect, which preaches a message of peace and tolerance, have long been subject to violent attacks and persecution in Pakistan, where they are branded worse than apostates by hardliners and forbidden by the state to call themselves Muslims.

Now the wave of persecution appears to have spread to the UK, with a man admitting in a public statement that he killed Ahmadi shopkeeper Asad Shah in Glasgow for disrespecting Islam. The unusual statement coincides with the distribution across London of leaflets calling for followers of the religion to be killed.

The "religion of peace" is so peaceful that a significant portion of its believers consider slightly different Muslims that preach peace and tolerance as worse than apostates and to be killed, if they don't "repent" and convert back to the normal Islam - and they actually do so.

europe is going on a ride

i want to get off mr. bones wild ride

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 08:42:31 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 12, 2016, 02:22:05 am

The Varoufake thing was only possible due to how damn sloppy our journalists are working, so I say good he exposed that.

Wait, what? They reported on an event of which there was video evidence, and when presented with evidence that suggested it was fake, they reported on that. How is that exposing sloppiness, as opposed to just stright-up lying to get media attention?

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 02:24:17 am

It is a tasteless poem. A poem nonetheless. It rhymes, and it has metric (at least the german original version does).
It should fall completely under the freedom of arts. If this guy gets convicted for this, it's a big loss for the german constitutional state.

It's tasteless nonetheless, and infantile. It deserves a lot of criticism. But no legal action.

There is a law against it, and Böhmermann was aware of that. It would be a great loss to the German Rechtsstaat if there was no legal action, because that would mean putting day-to-day politics above the law. Just ask yourself: Would he be getting the same reaction for calling Obama a banana-lving cotton boy?

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 12, 2016, 02:25:27 am

So apparently a video in which Varoufakis might or might not have been giving the finger to the world was claimed by Bohrman as a fake. Which turned out to be not true. So it was a fake fake fake?

Varoufakis flipped of Germany (not the world, Germany) at some event a couple years back, waaaayyy before he became a minister. This was dug up by some German talkshow, and subsequently overhyped (seriously, go look at the original - it's a triviality). The real kicker is that Varoufakis immediately opted for just straight-up lying to the world, claiming the video was fake and that the events depicted had never happened - and this at the height of German-Greek tension. Böhmermann then faked evidence that showed him/his team faking that middle finger, supposedly exculpating Varoufakis. Said evidence made quite a stir, but was quickly exposed to be false as well.

For some reason this is considered to be a stroke of genius by Böhmermann.

Quote from: scriver on April 11, 2016, 10:58:57 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 11, 2016, 05:14:01 pm

Quote from: Antioch on April 11, 2016, 05:01:09 pm

When you persecute literally 2000 people for insulting you, then you deserve to be insulted.

If you kill a lot of people, you deserve to die? Go buy a rifle and hunt down Erdogan, then, because insultng him is not nearly enough.

Flawless logic.

Glad to see you agree with me. Paying back injury with injury is a frightfully primitive impulse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 12, 2016, 08:50:43 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 11, 2016, 07:39:57 pm

literally hitter

literally hitter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 12, 2016, 08:53:34 am

The poem is a direct reaction to the severe abuse of the laws to persecute people "insulting" the president by Erdogan.

Obama does not persecute people for insulting him in that way.

Someone a 1000 miles away insulting you does not hurt you. Getting put in jail several years and being abused by security forces for insulting the great leader destroys lives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on April 12, 2016, 08:57:13 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 12, 2016, 04:52:26 am

Hate leaflets calling for killing of Ahmadi Muslims distributed across London (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hate-leaflets-calling-killing-ahmadi-muslims-distributed-across-london-1553591).

Quote

Leaflets calling for members of the Ahmadi Muslim community to be killed have allegedly been distributed in universities, mosques and shopping centres in London.

Followers of the Muslim Ahmadi sect, which preaches a message of peace and tolerance, have long been subject to violent attacks and persecution in Pakistan, where they are branded worse than apostates by hardliners and forbidden by the state to call themselves Muslims.

Now the wave of persecution appears to have spread to the UK, with a man admitting in a public statement that he killed Ahmadi shopkeeper Asad Shah in Glasgow for disrespecting Islam. The unusual statement coincides with the distribution across London of leaflets calling for followers of the religion to be killed.

The "religion of peace" is so peaceful that a significant portion of its believers consider slightly different Muslims that preach peace and tolerance as worse than apostates and to be killed, if they don't "repent" and convert back to the normal Islam - and they actually do so.

europe is going on a ride

i want to get off mr. bones wild ride

This is why chaotic evil empires don't exist and collapse on themselves within a generation.
Without dictators regularly telling them to cut out with this crap they just fall into petty infighting over pretty much nothing but a slight difference in worldview.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

Quote from: Antioch on April 12, 2016, 08:53:34 am

The poem is a direct reaction to the severe abuse of the laws to persecute people "insulting" the president by Erdogan.

Obama does not persecute people for insulting him in that way.

Someone a 1000 miles away insulting you does not hurt you. Getting put in jail several years and being abused by security forces for insulting the great leader destroys lives.

How are Erdogan's policies relevant to the judicial assessment of Böhmermann's case? If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 12, 2016, 09:20:15 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

Quote from: Antioch on April 12, 2016, 08:53:34 am

The poem is a direct reaction to the severe abuse of the laws to persecute people "insulting" the president by Erdogan.

Obama does not persecute people for insulting him in that way.

Someone a 1000 miles away insulting you does not hurt you. Getting put in jail several years and being abused by security forces for insulting the great leader destroys lives.

How are Erdogan's policies relevant to the judicial assessment of Böhmermann's case? If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

persecuting crimes differently depending on who they hurt is actually what Erdogan's policy IS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 12, 2016, 10:12:52 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 08:42:31 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 12, 2016, 02:22:05 am

The Varoufake thing was only possible due to how damn sloppy our journalists are working, so I say good he exposed that.

Wait, what? They reported on an event of which there was video evidence, and when presented with evidence that suggested it was fake, they reported on that. How is that exposing sloppiness, as opposed to just stright-up lying to get media attention?

Böhmermann is hardly the only one who's lying to get media attention. That's the whole point – he's first lying and then pointing it out (as opposed to many liars who are never caught), so that maybe one day journalists learn to check their stories before spinning them into the next scandal.

Quote

Varoufakis flipped of Germany (not the world, Germany) at some event a couple years back, waaaayyy before he became a minister. This was dug up by some German talkshow, and subsequently overhyped (seriously, go look at the original - it's a triviality). The real kicker is that Varoufakis immediately opted for just straight-up lying to the world, claiming the video was fake and that the events depicted had never happened - and this at the height of German-Greek tension. Böhmermann then faked evidence that showed him/his team faking that middle finger, supposedly exculpating Varoufakis. Said evidence made quite a stir, but was quickly exposed to be false as well.

He did not "flip of Germany", he was making a point about how when Germany will finally be suffering the consequences of their economic misbehavior it will be okay for Greece to not care. Jauch just took the whole thing out of context and just assumed that this was meant to be a middle finger to Germany.
And that's why Böhmermann is completely right in making the whole thing as obviously ridiculous as it was in the first place.

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

How are Erdogan's policies relevant to the judicial assessment of Böhmermann's case? If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

I actually believe that persons of public interest who exert vast amounts of power should not be protected against attacks against their personality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 10:28:59 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

would you demand equal punishment for a kid who pushes a classmate during recess and a guy who pushes a frail old lady in a stairwell? ...or someone who distributes genocidal leaflets in a mosque and a guy who insults the ego of megalomaniacal dictator?

your idea of equality before the law is skewed by your conservative catholic liberalism, helgo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:32:14 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 10:28:59 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

would you demand equal punishment for a kid who pushes a classmate during recess and a guy who pushes a frail old lady in a stairwell? ...or someone who distributes genocidal leaflets in a mosque and a guy who insults the ego of megalomaniacal dictator?

your idea of equality before the law is skewed by your conservative catholic liberalism, helgo

I don't think the things you're equating are quite the the same things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 10:34:38 am

I'm not equating them, I'm asking if it's right to equate them

...and it's not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:44:06 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 10:34:38 am

I'm not equating them, I'm asking if it's right to equate them

...and it's not.

The examples you're using to illustrate your point are quite poor, though.

I don't think the law is going to prosecute a kid who pushes their classmate at recess, and distributing genocidal leaflets in a mosque (presumably about killing Muslims?) is not libel, it's hate speech. They shouldn't be treated the same (as pushing old lady and libelous stuff, respectively) because they're not the same thing, which isn't quite the point you were making, I think.

I'm also curious how Helgoland can be conservative and liberal at the same time, but that's a (much) less important point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 11:25:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:44:06 am

I'm also curious how Helgoland can be conservative and liberal at the same time

Jewish Physics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2016, 11:28:38 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 08:42:31 am

There is a law against it, and Böhmermann was aware of that. It would be a great loss to the German Rechtsstaat if there was no legal action, because that would mean putting day-to-day politics above the law. Just ask yourself: Would he be getting the same reaction for calling Obama a banana-lving cotton boy?

If there is such a law against it, I would bet my hat on that it wasn't meant to protect foreign wannabe dictators and oppressors from insults or satire.

Quote from: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:44:06 am

I'm also curious how Helgoland can be conservative and liberal at the same time, but that's a (much) less important point.

Outside of America liberals and conservatives are usually counted as two different branches of right-wing. Usually there is quite a bit of overlap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on April 12, 2016, 12:00:08 pm

Yeah, "both sides of opinion" in the USA are within some pretty darn narrow parameters. You notice this most starkly on foreign policy. e.g. if the debate is on bombing Iran, the the Republican will be like "we should bomb them now" and the Democrat will be like "bombing them now would not be a good idea". Not a "good idea" in terms of US interests mind you, rather than it not being a good idea because it's morally wrong to carry out unilateral bombings.

Another example of how the two American sides are exactly the same when dealing with foreign policy was New York Times articles about Hugo Chavez. They had more verifiable outright lies and right-wing bullshit than a typical FOX News story on Obama, when the subject became Chavez (e.g. blaming Chavez for "high inflation" during his presidency, when in fact his presidency represented a lull in the otherwise-chronic hyperinflation both before him, and after him). So when it's a political enemy of the US ruling class, both American "Conservatives" and "Liberals" use exactly the same tactics. Both represent different factions of the hegemony.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 12:07:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 12, 2016, 11:28:38 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 08:42:31 am

There is a law against it, and Böhmermann was aware of that. It would be a great loss to the German Rechtsstaat if there was no legal action, because that would mean putting day-to-day politics above the law. Just ask yourself: Would he be getting the same reaction for calling Obama a banana-lving cotton boy?

If there is such a law against it, I would bet my hat on that it wasn't meant to protect foreign wannabe dictators and oppressors from insults or satire.

Heh, it's actually colloquially known as the 'Shah law'. But fair point - §103 is weird. The usual laws on libel still apply though.

Quote from: scriver on April 12, 2016, 11:28:38 am

Outside of America liberals and conservatives are usually counted as two different branches of right-wing. Usually there is quite a bit of overlap.

Only if you take 'liberal' to mean 'neo-liberal' - and neo-liberal I am definitely not. Socially liberal fits better, and that's a decidedly left-wing thing. Similarly 'conservative' can mean 'part of the political force usually known as the Conservatives' or 'when in doubt prefers the status quo, is sceptical of abrupt or radical change'. I'm the latter, and definitely not the former.

Not that the 'left' and 'right' categories are sufficient or even adequate to characterize most political positions, but that probably doesn't even need mentioning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 12:14:22 pm

The US has announced 'unexpecedly' that they have stationed a classified number of F-22 Raptors at the UK airbase of Lakenheath.
The F-22 Raptor is an advanced stealth fighter, the most advanced airplane currently in use in the USAF.

With this, the US "want to show our continuing effort to fullfill the US' obligations to it's NATO allies", according to the American European Command.
Furthermore, the stationing is meant to "deter all actions that would destabilize the region", referring to the annexation of the Crimea by Russia, and the continued Russian involvement in the conflict in the Ukraine.

How many of the planes, which are made for an air superiority role, exactly have been stationed remains classified. F-22's aren't often stationed outside of the US, although in august last year a few were also stationed in Germany.

Last week, the US already sent 12 F-15s (the predecessor of the F-22) to the Netherlands and Iceland, to "deter further Russian aggression", referring to the numerous probing incursions of Russian fighters and bombers into NATO airspace over the past few years. The F-15s are currently used to aid in the defense of Icelandic airspace. In januari this year, six F-15s were also sent to Finland.

With this last addition, the US have now sent planes to Europe 3 times already in 2016, meaning to give a clear signal to Russia.
The excersises the planes will partake in are part of an operation called 'Atlantic Resolve', which was started by the US and it's allies in response to the Russian annexation of Crimea.

Putin is likely to note this activity. The F22's have been used by the Obama administration as a means of intimidation in Asia and the Middle East.
For example, the F22s were stationed in the UAE, to intimidate Iran back when tensions rose in the conflict about their nuclear program.
Earlier this year F-22s were stationed in Japan, when North Korea detonated a nuclear test device.

The F-22 has been developed during the Cold War by Lockheed Martin, to replace the F-15. Initially, the USAF wanted to buy 750 planes. But technical difficulties and delay increased the plane's cost price much, and eventually the USAF could only afford to buy 195 planes, which cost around 67 billion dollars.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/signaal-aan-rusland-vs-stationeren-onverwacht-hypermoderne-f-22-in-europa~a4280684/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/signaal-aan-rusland-vs-stationeren-onverwacht-hypermoderne-f-22-in-europa~a4280684/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 12:37:43 pm

I was just joking about Helgo's reputation as a pickelhaube-wearing catholic liberal conservative, but I'm entirely serious about Erdogan's reputation as a goat-fucking pedophile. Sure, it's baseless low-quality slander, but so what? Legitimate criticism is just as illegal in Turkey, with the slight difference that truthful complaints are always callously ignored by the sultan and his cronies, unlike untrue insults such as the above. Libel is nasty business in ordinary cases, but Erdogan is in no way harmed by the false allegations themselves. The damage to his reputation is caused by his own absurdly disproportionate response, and if stroking the ego of a foreign dictator is necessary for upholding the Rechtsstaat, I say German liberalism has gone awry in ways unforeseen by the guy in my avatar pic.

@hector13: Liberal conservatism is a real term. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 12, 2016, 01:46:23 pm

Wait, so that poem is the thing I read about not while ago?

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 04:33:32 am

Today, the Turkish vice-premier Numan Kurtulmus called the poem a "crime against humanity".

More like "crime against satire".

The way I see things, satire is excellent tool of critique, delivering both entertainment and discussion material... if used correctly. Satire is a type of humor that needs special amount of care, more than other types, if you want to keep quality.
Erdogan deserves all the critique we can shove down his throat. That poem? Yeah, well, it was a collection of obscenities made to rhyme in German. It was crude, simplistic and low-brow. A jab. A jab with a pointy, rusted spike dipped in shit. A satire? Hardly.

We must do better. Satire must be such that the target of mockery at worst is left wondering if we are serious or not and at best he/she must revel in our mockery, mistakenly thinking we are singing a praise. Satire is always insulting, but it's always a veiled insult otherwise it's just an insult. And why not just insult Erdogan, even if he deserves it? Because if we want to take the moral high ground, we must show him we are truly smarter than him, not engage in a lowly pub-knife-fight.

That's my stance on this.

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2016, 02:24:17 am

It is a tasteless poem. A poem nonetheless. It rhymes, and it has metric (at least the german original version does).
It should fall completely under the freedom of arts. If this guy gets convicted for this, it's a big loss for the german constitutional state.

It's tasteless nonetheless, and infantile. It deserves a lot of criticism. But no legal action.

More or less, yeah. Besides, prosecuting him would fuel both "anti-establishment" right wing and feed into Erdogan's ego. Message must be sent to Böhmermann none the less. He is no John Stewart of poetry. So he should strive to do better.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on April 12, 2016, 10:28:59 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

would you demand equal punishment for a kid who pushes a classmate during recess and a guy who pushes a frail old lady in a stairwell? ...or someone who distributes genocidal leaflets in a mosque and a guy who insults the ego of megalomaniacal dictator?

your idea of equality before the law is skewed by your conservative catholic liberalism, helgo

Sorry, but I too will have to agree this comparison is a bit off.

What you are describing are different crimes, different situations, different aoutcomes.

What Helgoland is talking about (or so I understand) would be more like:
1. [insert race/religion/social status etc.] kid pushes a classmate during recess
2. [insert different than 1. case race/religion/social status etc.] kid pushes a classmate during recess
... where you would punish kids differently given their "[insert]" differences. Instead you should be punishing them both equally, that's what Helgoland is on about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 12, 2016, 03:19:15 pm

Quote from: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 11:25:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:44:06 am

I'm also curious how Helgoland can be conservative and liberal at the same time

Jewish Physics.

I understood that reference, but what does Hitler's hatred of Jews crippling the Nazi scientific program have to do with being both liberal and conservative at the same time?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on April 12, 2016, 03:22:46 pm

Actually, challenging him to a pub knife fight would be the perfect solution to the problem. Then you just shank him and be done with the fucker.

Sure it leaves a power vacuum, but hopefully we've learned to deal with those as soon as they come up instead of letting them suck in shit before coalescing(I've always wanted to use this in a proper sentence :D) into the likes of ISIS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 12, 2016, 04:03:47 pm

Quote from: Jopax on April 12, 2016, 03:22:46 pm

Actually, challenging him to a pub knife fight would be the perfect solution to the problem. Then you just shank him and be done with the fucker.

Sure it leaves a power vacuum, but hopefully we've learned to deal with those as soon as they come up instead of letting them suck in shit before coalescing(I've always wanted to use this in a proper sentence :D) into the likes of ISIS.

Wouldn't the line of succession come into effect? Like how the Vice President becomes the President if something happens to the President.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 05:34:21 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 12, 2016, 03:19:15 pm

Quote from: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 11:25:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 12, 2016, 10:44:06 am

I'm also curious how Helgoland can be conservative and liberal at the same time

Jewish Physics.

I understood that reference, but what does Hitler's hatred of Jews crippling the Nazi scientific program have to do with being both liberal and conservative at the same time?

Helgo is a Schrodinger's Citizen. Until his views on any specific subject are reviewed, his political leanings are in superposition :P
^{_{Also it was more of a reference-to-a-reference. I've been reading too much r/polandball lately.}}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 12, 2016, 05:58:11 pm

Quote from: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 05:34:21 pm

Schrodinger's Citizen.

I lel'd.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 13, 2016, 01:55:37 am

The Dutch government is currently contemplating disowning and renationalizing the railway contractor ProRail, to put an end to chronic overdue maintenance of the tracks, and stop the culture of failing directors getting off with a goodbye bonus of several 100 thousands euros.

It's a step in the right direction. Now let's hope they continue this trend, and disown and renationalize the train service, bus services, landline telephone services, postal office, health insurance, gas and electricity, waterworks, and others, and put an end to the neo con nightmare of selling out every public service to the highest bidder.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 13, 2016, 02:39:20 am

I wish they did that here :(
(luckily here they did not quite sell off the national healthcare system wholly because there would have been a riot. THey did try to "externalize" chunks of it though. Also luckily, my home region has enough autonomy to be spared from the more toxic nationwide policies)
THe trend for decades has been for goverments to sell off those assets (often for a pittance). I think it might be reversing due to popular clamor in the last few years. We'll see. I hope that, indeed, what you say is a new trend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 13, 2016, 03:07:50 am

Quote from: Jopax on April 12, 2016, 03:22:46 pm

Actually, challenging him to a pub knife fight would be the perfect solution to the problem. Then you just shank him and be done with the fucker.

Sure it leaves a power vacuum, but hopefully we've learned to deal with those as soon as they come up instead of letting them suck in shit before coalescing(I've always wanted to use this in a proper sentence :D) into the likes of ISIS.

From what I've recently heard from one of Turkish posters, the guys who're likely to take power if he dies are even worse. Like, Erdogan is just an egomaniac who panders to his base, but Davutoglu, the next in line, apparently "really believes he can reestablish Ottoman Empire, the Empire that did no wrong and was the greatest state ever, and if he shows enough strength, all Balkan and Middle Eastern countries will fall into line begging for admission back into the Empire."

tl;dr Erdogan is just a symptom, Turkey itself and its growing delusions of supremacy are the problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 13, 2016, 03:43:39 am

Jan Böhmermann is gone into hiding and is being protected by the German police, out of fear for attacks by Erdogan loyalists in Germany, according to the German opinion magazine Focus.

http://www.focus.de/kultur/kino_tv/akut-durch-anhaenger-erdogans-gefaehrdet-jan-boehmermann-steht-unter-polizeischutz_id_5431142.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 13, 2016, 04:22:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 13, 2016, 01:55:37 am

The Dutch government is currently contemplating disowning and renationalizing the railway contractor ProRail, to put an end to chronic overdue maintenance of the tracks, and stop the culture of failing directors getting off with a goodbye bonus of several 100 thousands euros.

It's a step in the right direction. Now let's hope they continue this trend, and disown and renationalize the train service, bus services, landline telephone services, postal office, health insurance, gas and electricity, waterworks, and others, and put an end to the neo con nightmare of selling out every public service to the highest bidder.

Finally, the current construction was completely unworkable.

Privatisation only makes sense if a business can actually be punished for failure or allowed to go bankrupt.

In case of ProRail it did not matter how much they failed, the taxpayer had to always bail them out anyway, otherwise we would have no railways.

Basically it meant that if they did good they were a private company and could give those juicy bonuses to the management, and if they failed it was suddenly the governments responsibility.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 13, 2016, 07:27:21 am

Quote from: scrdest on April 12, 2016, 05:34:21 pm

Helgo is a Schrodinger's Citizen. Until his views on any specific subject are reviewed, his political leanings are in superposition.

Hello, new sig!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Frumple on April 13, 2016, 08:28:59 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 12, 2016, 09:07:46 am

If I understand you correctly, you want to persecute crimes differently depending on who they hurt. That violates fundamental judicial norms.

Bit late to the party, but it very much doesn't. Laws regarding minors are probably the biggest example of just what you're talking about, with dependents/disabled in general following afterwards. Assault against a kid is rarely treated the same as assault against an adult, et al. There's occasionally stuff in contract law, too, just off the top of my head -- the mental acuity of the victim of fraud and whatnot can determine how the fraud is persecuted, or even if it's persecuted at all. Pretty sure some whistleblower stuff falls in that area, too; sometimes what amounts to corporate espionage (and is definitely contract violation) is given a pass due to information provided. Then there's still like harassment, which is almost defined by who the victim is; a phone call to someone random doesn't have the same implication as one to someone you've been calling repeatedly. Crimes are prosecuted differently depending who the victim is fairly often, even to the point of relabeling some based on that criteria alone.

Skimming back over, I'm pretty sure most of that isn't exactly applicable to what was being discussed, but calling that a violation of judicial norms is just... kinda' wrong, y'know?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 13, 2016, 12:41:59 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 13, 2016, 03:07:50 am

Quote from: Jopax on April 12, 2016, 03:22:46 pm

Actually, challenging him to a pub knife fight would be the perfect solution to the problem. Then you just shank him and be done with the fucker.

Sure it leaves a power vacuum, but hopefully we've learned to deal with those as soon as they come up instead of letting them suck in shit before coalescing(I've always wanted to use this in a proper sentence :D) into the likes of ISIS.

From what I've recently heard from one of Turkish posters, the guys who're likely to take power if he dies are even worse. Like, Erdogan is just an egomaniac who panders to his base, but Davutoglu, the next in line, apparently "really believes he can reestablish Ottoman Empire, the Empire that did no wrong and was the greatest state ever, and if he shows enough strength, all Balkan and Middle Eastern countries will fall into line begging for admission back into the Empire."

tl;dr Erdogan is just a symptom, Turkey itself and its growing delusions of supremacy are the problem.

I'm gonna guess 'shows enough strength' includes militarily annexing said states. Which is something I HOPE gets Turkey kicked out of NATO because that would include attacking other NATO members.

Besides, Iran isn't going to let Turkey attempt to annex Iraq and Syria.

Also, Ottoman empire at it's greatest extent: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/OttomanEmpireIn1683.png (linked instead of making an image post because it's a HUGE image)

Ottoman empire at the turn of the 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_and_modernization_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#/media/File:Map-of-Ottoman-Empire-in-1900-German.svg

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 13, 2016, 03:15:42 pm

Bombing the Kurds, poking Russia and the EU, and harshly punishing 'terrorists' is plenty for now. Even if they had the desire to annex Iraq and Syria (and they'd have to be absolutely insane to want such shitholes even if they wouldn't get dogpiled by the whole rest of the world) I doubt they would be able to maintain a strong enough military presence in the region to keep it under control. They're decent for a Middle Eastern army, but that's not really saying much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 13, 2016, 04:19:43 pm

Quote from: Baffler on April 13, 2016, 03:15:42 pm

Bombing the Kurds, poking Russia and the EU, and harshly punishing 'terrorists' is plenty for now. Even if they had the desire to annex Iraq and Syria (and they'd have to be absolutely insane to want such shitholes even if they wouldn't get dogpiled by the whole rest of the world) I doubt they would be able to maintain a strong enough military presence in the region to keep it under control. They're decent for a Middle Eastern army, but that's not really saying much.

I've seen some people saying that Turkish army is the shit and would be able to roll over every other country in the region simultaneously, citing their experience in working together in Iraq or around it, don't remember the context very well. I don't know how well the Turkish army has survived the Erdogan's pro-loyalty cleansing (my guess is very badly, judging by the case of Iraqi army before and after Maliki has replaced most combat-capable Sunni/not-pro-Maliki officers with loyal-but-inept Shia/pro-Maliki ones), but I would still be careful with saying that it could be measured by Middle Eastern standards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 13, 2016, 04:42:57 pm

My understanding was that they were in a similar place to Saudi Arabia. Well equipped compared to their neighbors, but with a disorganized and adversarial officer corps, and poorly trained and unmotivated at the level of NCO's and enlisted men. As I recall they don't have it nearly as bad, mostly because the military isn't as politically involved, but it's still a very real situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 15, 2016, 04:30:51 am

Geez. I knew that our current King and Queen aren't the brightest lights in the country, but what our queen Maxima did now is just plain retarded.
She went on official visit to Neurenberg wearing this:
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png.html)

the designer Claes Iversen "ofcourse never intended to have patterns in the queen's coat refer to nazi symbols".
He just "wanted to include some unconventional embroidery materials to add a classic geometric element to the coat".
The Bild Zeitung headlined "Maximal insult". The correspondent from the Dutch RTL channel even said the complete dress resembles a Wehrmacht uniform. "A queen should know better", he said.

For some reason I suspect this to be a drunk bet by the designer with his drinking buddies.
"Hey, wanna bet I can get away with having the queen wear a swastika during her state visit to Germany?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on April 15, 2016, 04:55:37 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 15, 2016, 04:30:51 am

Geez. I knew that our current King and Queen aren't the brightest lights in the country, but what our queen Maxima did now is just plain retarded.
She went on official visit to Neurenberg wearing this:
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png.html)

the designer Claes Iversen "ofcourse never intended to have patterns in the queen's coat refer to nazi symbols".
He just "wanted to include some unconventional embroidery materials to add a classic geometric element to the coat".
The Bild Zeitung headlined "Maximal insult". The correspondent from the Dutch RTL channel even said the complete dress resembles a Wehrmacht uniform. "A queen should know better", he said.

For some reason I suspect this to be a drunk bet by the designer with his drinking buddies.
"Hey, wanna bet I can get away with having the queen wear a swastika during her state visit to Germany?"

How did nobody think this was a bad idea beforehand.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2016, 05:06:48 am

Quote from: Antioch on April 15, 2016, 04:55:37 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 15, 2016, 04:30:51 am

Geez. I knew that our current King and Queen aren't the brightest lights in the country, but what our queen Maxima did now is just plain retarded.
She went on official visit to Neurenberg wearing this:
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/queen%20nazi_zpsrjrxwdgv.png.html)

the designer Claes Iversen "ofcourse never intended to have patterns in the queen's coat refer to nazi symbols".
He just "wanted to include some unconventional embroidery materials to add a classic geometric element to the coat".
The Bild Zeitung headlined "Maximal insult". The correspondent from the Dutch RTL channel even said the complete dress resembles a Wehrmacht uniform. "A queen should know better", he said.

For some reason I suspect this to be a drunk bet by the designer with his drinking buddies.
"Hey, wanna bet I can get away with having the queen wear a swastika during her state visit to Germany?"

How did nobody think this was a bad idea beforehand.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3oSKr2v4E

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:03:17 am

Apparently Merkel has decided to allow Böhmermann's case to be reviewed by the German courts. SPD, Greens, and LINKE are verbally running amok. The SZ has a collection of reactions. (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fall-boehmermann-entscheidung-ist-gegen-die-stimmen-der-spd-minister-gefallen-1.2951717) I especially like the last one:

Quote

The government has decided to leave the verdict to German courts. I find myself unable to be upset with that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 09:39:33 am

The Nazi swastika goes the other way...
 ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 15, 2016, 09:42:03 am

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 09:39:33 am

The Nazi swastika goes the other way...
 ::)

Swastika's a swastika man. Gotta allow the media to sensationalize it all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 15, 2016, 10:01:29 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:03:17 am

Apparently Merkel has decided to allow Böhmermann's case to be reviewed by the German courts. SPD, Greens, and LINKE are verbally running amok. The SZ has a collection of reactions. (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fall-boehmermann-entscheidung-ist-gegen-die-stimmen-der-spd-minister-gefallen-1.2951717) I especially like the last one:

Quote

The government has decided to leave the verdict to German courts. I find myself unable to be upset with that.

I'm just going to leave this here:

Quote from: Sergarr on March 18, 2016, 10:27:41 am

Great job, Merkel. Great fucking job. It's hard to believe that such concentration of pure failure can exist in a single person that's supposed to rule over a non-"banana republic" state. Fucking up economical recovery of the biggest and most developed economical block on the planet (lel austerity), fucking up on the refugee issue, fucking up nuclear energy (only to replace it with coal, which actually releases 20 times more radioactive materials than nuclear energy does LEL), and fucking up German's army to the extent of it using fucking brooms instead of actual weapons... have I missed anything?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 10:42:40 am

That's a cute avatar. #offtopic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 10:56:06 am

Looks like it's supposed to be a stylized sun to me, or possibly a windmill (because Dutch), but I get the point there. What's the German word for Faux Pas? just out of curiosity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 15, 2016, 11:01:07 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 10:56:06 am

Looks like it's supposed to be a stylized sun to me, or possibly a windmill (because Dutch), but I get the point there. What's the German word for Faux Pas? just out of curiosity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 15, 2016, 12:41:33 pm

I can't get too mad about how hitler ruined a moustache, but I'm really mad about how he ruined a whole bunch of rotational symmetry.

Why the hell couldn't the damned nazis have chosen a more complicated symbol, like the confederate flag? This would have never happen with that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 15, 2016, 12:43:30 pm

Nazis ruined Nazi uniforms. :c

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 15, 2016, 02:36:39 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 10:42:40 am

That's a cute avatar. #offtopic

Yeah, it is. It really really is. "cheered me up from moderate depression to moderate happiness in less than 24 hours" level of cute. #offtopic

Quote from: Egan_BW on April 15, 2016, 12:41:33 pm

I can't get too mad about how hitler ruined a moustache, but I'm really mad about how he ruined a whole bunch of rotational symmetry.

Why the hell couldn't the damned nazis have chosen a more complicated symbol, like the confederate flag? This would have never happen with that.

That's nothing; USSR & Maoist China have ruined (for a sizeable portion of humanity) everything colored red. Can't beat that!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 02:41:17 pm

Everything red? I beg to differ (https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=mord+sith&btnG=Search+by+image). ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 15, 2016, 03:20:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:03:17 am

Apparently Merkel has decided to allow Böhmermann's case to be reviewed by the German courts. SPD, Greens, and LINKE are verbally running amok. The SZ has a collection of reactions. (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fall-boehmermann-entscheidung-ist-gegen-die-stimmen-der-spd-minister-gefallen-1.2951717) I especially like the last one:

Quote

The government has decided to leave the verdict to German courts. I find myself unable to be upset with that.

Yeah, but still it's more complicated: It seems this is already used in Turkey as justification for even more suppression of free speech.

Once again, everything's just fucked up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 04:05:04 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 15, 2016, 03:20:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:03:17 am

Apparently Merkel has decided to allow Böhmermann's case to be reviewed by the German courts. SPD, Greens, and LINKE are verbally running amok. The SZ has a collection of reactions. (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fall-boehmermann-entscheidung-ist-gegen-die-stimmen-der-spd-minister-gefallen-1.2951717) I especially like the last one:

Quote

The government has decided to leave the verdict to German courts. I find myself unable to be upset with that.

Yeah, but still it's more complicated: It seems this is already used in Turkey as justification for even more suppression of free speech.

Once again, everything's just fucked up.

So, Turkey is using 'not getting their way' as justification?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 04:12:44 pm

*Erdogan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2016, 05:28:10 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 04:12:44 pm

*Erdogan

That's His Imperial Majesty, Sultan Erdogan Khan, King of the Turks, Lord of Anatolia and the Bosphorus, for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 15, 2016, 05:32:00 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 15, 2016, 05:28:10 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 04:12:44 pm

*Erdogan

That's His Imperial Majesty, Sultan Erdogan Khan, King of the Turks, Lord of Anatolia and the Bosphorus, for you.

Bullshit.
God Emperor of Mankind is the only true Lord Of Anatolia. He was there first. (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/symbolism/eagle/hittite_eagle_large.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2016, 05:39:32 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 15, 2016, 05:32:00 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 15, 2016, 05:28:10 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 04:12:44 pm

*Erdogan

That's His Imperial Majesty, Sultan Erdogan Khan, King of the Turks, Lord of Anatolia and the Bosphorus, for you.

Bullshit.
God Emperor of Mankind is the only true Lord Of Anatolia. He was there first. (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/symbolism/eagle/hittite_eagle_large.jpg)

Peer into your heart. You know His true identity. Erdogan Protects

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 15, 2016, 05:42:09 pm

Spoiler: Oh shit. (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/eQPvoCu.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 15, 2016, 06:56:29 pm

In response to the Böhmermann affair, a majority of the Dutch parliament voted in favour of a proposition from the liberal party to scrap the law that forbids insulting a head of a foreign state today.
So basically if a similar thing would be recited here, there's no chance that Erdogan can even ask us to take legal action anymore. Scrapping the law prevents that.
So I guess if Böhmermann gets convicted he could always apply for asylum over here  :D

 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 08:37:18 pm

So, um, what happened with Hollande? From the way the first paragraph of this article is written: http://www.politico.eu/article/french-socialists-looking-for-best-possible-loser-hollande-2017-presidential-election-successor/, it sounds like his political career commited suicide or something. Plus the massive unpopularity mentioned.

edit: actual linkage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:53:01 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 15, 2016, 03:20:50 pm

Yeah, but still it's more complicated: It seems this is already used in Turkey as justification for even more suppression of free speech.

Well yeah, but that would've happened either way. So: Fuck Erdogan, but fuck Böhmermann too. The only difference is you should use some lube with Böhmermann.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 09:18:46 pm

So let me ask a question, and it's going to sound either dumb or like trolling, but it's not.

... Is his name pronounced "Bomberman?" If not, what's the correct way?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 09:21:27 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 09:18:46 pm

So let me ask a question, and it's going to sound either dumb or like trolling, but it's not.

... Is his name pronounced "Bomberman?" If not, what's the correct way?

I THINK it may be more like Boer mann.

Not sure how I'm supposed to pronounce the umlaut O though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 15, 2016, 11:01:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 09:21:27 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 09:18:46 pm

So let me ask a question, and it's going to sound either dumb or like trolling, but it's not.

... Is his name pronounced "Bomberman?" If not, what's the correct way?

I THINK it may be more like Boer mann.

Not sure how I'm supposed to pronounce the umlaut O though.

The way I learned to say "ö" was to round my mouth like I was saying a long "o" but put my tongue where I would put it when saying a long "e". However, the pronunciation can vary in some dialects of German - in some places, it sounds much more like a long "a".

As for the name, it's probably either BOEM-mer mahn or BOEM-ber mahn.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 11:16:45 pm

Well, to be clear, the second b was silent in my mind, as it is when pronouncing "bomberman." I could assume that somewhere it isn't silent, but I don't know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 16, 2016, 02:31:31 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2016, 04:05:04 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 15, 2016, 03:20:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:03:17 am

Apparently Merkel has decided to allow Böhmermann's case to be reviewed by the German courts. SPD, Greens, and LINKE are verbally running amok. The SZ has a collection of reactions. (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/fall-boehmermann-entscheidung-ist-gegen-die-stimmen-der-spd-minister-gefallen-1.2951717) I especially like the last one:

Quote

The government has decided to leave the verdict to German courts. I find myself unable to be upset with that.

Yeah, but still it's more complicated: It seems this is already used in Turkey as justification for even more suppression of free speech.

Once again, everything's just fucked up.

So, Turkey is using 'not getting their way' as justification?

Why "not getting their way"?

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 11:16:45 pm

Well, to be clear, the second b was silent in my mind, as it is when pronouncing "bomberman." I could assume that somewhere it isn't silent, but I don't know.

Second b?

Here's how it is said in his intro:
https://youtu.be/7s8-zaXhREs?t=2m56s (https://youtu.be/7s8-zaXhREs?t=2m56s)

Quote from: Helgoland on April 15, 2016, 08:53:01 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 15, 2016, 03:20:50 pm

Yeah, but still it's more complicated: It seems this is already used in Turkey as justification for even more suppression of free speech.

Well yeah, but that would've happened either way. So: Fuck Erdogan, but fuck Böhmermann too. The only difference is you should use some lube with Böhmermann.

We had to spend years listening to I-forgot-his-name-shitmouth-Modern-Talking. He was way worse and insulted people without any reason or deeper meaning at all (even the Schmähgedicht was way above his level). I don't see why we now apply higher standards to Böhmermann only because he chooses to make fun of politicians instead of mislead teens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 16, 2016, 05:46:49 am

The worst thing about the poem is that it insults homosexuals by comparing them to Erdogan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 16, 2016, 10:37:08 am

Sorry, that last post was unclear due to tiredness. (I meant the second b in bomberman, and then went on to say "as it is in bomberman" which made no sense :V)

Aha. In that video it sounds like "Boomerman" to my ears.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 16, 2016, 11:19:49 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 16, 2016, 02:31:31 am

We had to spend years listening to I-forgot-his-name-shitmouth-Modern-Talking. He was way worse and insulted people without any reason or deeper meaning at all (even the Schmähgedicht was way above his level). I don't see why we now apply higher standards to Böhmermann only because he chooses to make fun of politicians instead of mislead teens.

My parents are good intellectuals, I grew up without a TV ;)

But seriously, that guy was just entertainment for the proles - that's why we could just politely ignore him like a small piece of dog shit stuck to someone's shoe. We can't do that with Böhmermann because he's political - he's taking part in the public discourse, and the public discourse is something we ought to keep in a good state. Someone who speaks politically needs to be held to a higher standard.

Dieter Bohlen! That was the critter's name!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 16, 2016, 10:44:44 pm

Yet more tolerance and progressiveness in France.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8l-y0rsJwQ

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 16, 2016, 11:14:47 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on April 16, 2016, 10:44:44 pm

Yet more tolerance and progressiveness in France.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8l-y0rsJwQ

Any idea what they were fighting over?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: wobbly on April 17, 2016, 06:49:41 am

Curious too. Considering the amount of sarcasm - "tolerance & progressiveness...", there's a complete lack of context to the post. Destructive yes, but in terms of violence they're doing a pretty poor job with the tools they're using  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 17, 2016, 10:03:36 am

The description of the video says that nationalist vigilantes attackes a makeshift refugee camp.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 17, 2016, 05:46:22 pm

There's an actual news article out now. Sounds like some drunk hooligan threw something and got arrested for his trouble, and the situation promptly turned into a riot. The guy who started it was part of a group of nationalist protesters, and the migrant camp was illegal.

http://news.sky.com/story/1679992/massive-brawl-erupts-at-migrant-camp-in-paris

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Reelya on April 17, 2016, 09:32:23 pm

I don't really know. Knocking down a shanty town (homeless people's) place isn't cool, even if such housing is illegal. Someone camping on the footpath doesn't create a legal or ethical right to beat the shit out of them. People don't live in cardboard boxes by choice. "Your makeshift dwelling is illegal, which justifies the neo-nazis beating you up" is logic only people with safe accommodation can engage in.

People in the comments seem to be saying that the migrants started the brawl. That's pretty unlikely. These people were camped there. The people who they were brawling with clearly made a decision to be there, and be brawling. e.g. if a bunch of skinheads demolish a migrant camp, it's hard to claim the skinheads were merely going about their day-to-day business and got attacked by the people at the camp.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 17, 2016, 10:35:22 pm

Quote

I don't really know. Knocking down a shanty town (homeless people's) place isn't cool, even if such housing is illegal

In most places knocking down a shanty town is probably illegal in itself unless it's done by the proper authorities following the proper channels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 18, 2016, 03:35:52 am

warning, implicit language inside (self-redaction edit)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Dutch stand up comedian Hans Teeuwen held a 5 minute rant yesterday on the RTL news, when asked about freedom of arts.
He ranted about being really angry at Erdogan, because he still owes him a blowjob, back from the day that he was still a little child prostitute in a brothel in Istanbul.
He says that he paid Erdogan for it, and he gave him a blowjob, and anally stimulated him, but when it was Erdogan's turn, he didn't give him a blowjob, and told him he'd just pretend. He continues, that it's no satire, but that he really still wants his blowjob.

ts;dr Dutch comedian pulls a Böhmermann

So now we wait, until Erdogan demands that our prime minister hauls him to court.
(the parliament voted to scrap the law against insulting heads of state last week, but the law isn't scrapped yet, that'll take a few years to go through bureaucratic channels)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw2l_9ZYTa8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw2l_9ZYTa8)

EDIT: now with subtitles

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: it would be hilarious if someone would now sue Teeuwen for making use of child prostitution, and offer Erdogan psychological counseling for his trauma of being a child prostitute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 18, 2016, 09:39:46 am

They're probably aiming for that, in fact. To get some kind of difamation accusation, and then do some kind of ironic retraction in public

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 18, 2016, 11:12:05 am

I do like that the best way he could think of to insult Erdogan requires that he himself be a gay pedophile though. If that's the best he's got he's probably not worth too much consideration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 18, 2016, 12:04:15 pm

Don't be too sure. This guy is one of the most prominent comedians in the Netherlands. Everybody knows Hans Teeuwen, and know him for sharp and ad rem satire and improvisations (although recently he has cut back on performing as a comedian to focus more on theater and movies). This is not some right-wing joker that's only popular with the populists. Au contraire. Populists are often the victim of his satire. If our government would ask justice department to sue him, there's likely going to be riots.

I like how he answers "is this satire?" with "no it's real".
Dumb questions deserve dumb answers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

ofcourse it's satire. They guy is younger than Erdogan, so the whole situation is impossible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 19, 2016, 04:42:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 16, 2016, 11:19:49 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 16, 2016, 02:31:31 am

We had to spend years listening to I-forgot-his-name-shitmouth-Modern-Talking. He was way worse and insulted people without any reason or deeper meaning at all (even the Schmähgedicht was way above his level). I don't see why we now apply higher standards to Böhmermann only because he chooses to make fun of politicians instead of mislead teens.

My parents are good intellectuals, I grew up without a TV ;)

But seriously, that guy was just entertainment for the proles - that's why we could just politely ignore him like a small piece of dog shit stuck to someone's shoe. We can't do that with Böhmermann because he's political - he's taking part in the public discourse, and the public discourse is something we ought to keep in a good state. Someone who speaks politically needs to be held to a higher standard.

Dieter Bohlen! That was the critter's name!

I didn't watch TV much either (mainly wholesome TV shows like Alfred J. Kwak, Heidi (yeah, I know…), Benjamin Blümchen and Bibbi Blocksberg (the latter two are probably partly responsible for me being an anarchist, I hear :P)), but he was kind of hard to ignore when almost everyone around me was taking art in his public defamation of still-developing teens.

My point is: The damage Böhmermann did to Erdogan is negligible. It's laughable. The damage Bohlen did to those teens was very real.
Only that when teens are damaged with words they are called spoiled for not being fully developed yet and then you make even more fun of them because they act accordingly damaged.
So this should be the other way round: People dealing with teenagers in public should be held to a higher standard. The damage they do is much more real and not as much dependent on other assholes participating in childish behavior. Which is something we should expect of people leading whole countries and even more when they make extraordinary claims about their own ability to fail, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 04:29:59 am

Aleksandr Bastrykin, a close associate of Putin, and head of the powerful Russian Research Commission, has said that Russia "needs to arm itself against the hybrid American information war, by applying censorship to the internet, like China does.

He says the US has been pumping billions of dollars into spreading false information about Russia.
As examples he names the shooting down of flight MH-17, the inquiry into the polonium poisoning of Aleksandr Litvinenko in the UK (which technically was a nuclear attack on NATO soil btw), and the rumors about corruption, about FIFA awarding the hosting of the world championship soccer 2018 to Russia.

According to Bastrykin, the US spends billions of dollars each year to "feed anti-Russian sentiments in nations bordering Russia, under the guise of strenghtening democracy".

At the same time, Bastrykin continues, "the US are trying to incite the peoples of Russia against each other, just like they sparked nationalist conflicts in the Sovjet Union in the '90s."
"It has become crystal clear that all these conflicts were an element of the first, secret phase of the information war."

Now too, he sees Americans everywhere. "Washington is behind the islamic terror in the Caucasus, and the US is also behind the recent spark of conflict between Azerbeidzjan and Armenia about the Nagorno-Karabach region. They aim to create instable conflict situations everywhere along the Russian border."

"It is time to put up an effective barrier against this information war. We should stop being a pseudo-democracy, and stop adhering to pseudo-liberal values. A true democracy should aim for protecting common interest, and not absolute freedom and the right of the individual."

Next to proposing censoring the internet, Bastrykin also proposes that Russian youth should be educated ideologically, to arm them against foreign destabilizing influences.
Also, it should become a punishable offense by law to deny 'historic facts' from the Russian history, like the "voluontary joining of the Crimea to Russia".


Bastrykin, an old college friend of Putin, is the head of the powerful Russian Research Commission since 2011, which is an alternative public prosector, and is regarded by some to be Putin's personal justice department. The most sensitive cases are handed from the official public prosecutor's office to the Research Commission, especially when it is a political case.

Next to that, Putin recently created a police and safety department that is under his direct command, the National Guard. It will be formed from units that are now still under the command of the department of internal affairs.

Critics fear that the National guard, which will take up 300 to 400 thousand men, will become some kind of Pretorian guard, which Putin will use to supress any signs of political unrest.
The National Guard will be lead by another trustee of Putin, Viktor Zolotov, who has been the head of Putin's presidential guard for a long time.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/adviseur-poetin-wil-censuur-op-westers-gestook~a4285608/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The US government paid me 3 billion to post this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 20, 2016, 04:57:03 am

In sort of related news, the Swedish government just announced the other day that it would put forward a proposition to increase cooperation with NATO's information warfare division or whatever it's called because of Russian potential activity in the region.

This is just a couple of weeks after all major Swedish internet news outlets were simultaneously and repeatedly brought down by ddos attacks which were tracked to have used Russian computers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on April 20, 2016, 05:03:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 04:29:59 am

According to Bastrykin, the US spends billions of dollars each year to "feed anti-Russian sentiments in nations bordering Russia, under the guise of strenghtening democracy".

I don't see why US would have to spend billions, Bastrykin seems to do the job perfectly well for free.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 05:11:13 am

Quote from: scrdest on April 20, 2016, 05:03:21 am

I don't see why US would have to spend billions, Bastrykin seems to do the job perfectly well for free.

Hehe yeah, that was exactly what I thought when reading that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 20, 2016, 06:53:12 am

So the guy in charge of protecting constitution suggests china-tier censorship.
Hello, comrade Kim Jong Un, in your direction we go!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 20, 2016, 07:23:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 05:11:13 am

Quote from: scrdest on April 20, 2016, 05:03:21 am

I don't see why US would have to spend billions, Bastrykin seems to do the job perfectly well for free.

Hehe yeah, that was exactly what I thought when reading that.

..unless he's actually in the amyerikan's payroll as well! Maybe that's what they want you to believe! (In fake accent)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 20, 2016, 07:42:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 04:29:59 am

"Washington is behind the islamic terror in the Caucasus, and the US is also behind the recent spark of conflict between Azerbeidzjan and Armenia about the Nagorno-Karabach region. They aim to create instable conflict situations everywhere along the Russian border."

To be fair, that's not terribly unlikely.

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 04:29:59 am

"It is time to put up an effective barrier against this information war. We should stop being a pseudo-democracy, and stop adhering to pseudo-liberal values. A true democracy should aim for protecting common interest, and not absolute freedom and the right of the individual."

Authoritarian democracy only democracy, libfags get out, reeee

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 08:21:04 am

The Dutch government wrote a notice to the parliament today, in which they agree and promise to give priority treatment to any official motion by the parliament to get rid of the law against insulting foreign heads of state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 20, 2016, 08:42:59 am

Brevik just won part of his Human Rights Trial

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 20, 2016, 09:31:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 08:21:04 am

The Dutch government wrote a notice to the parliament today, in which they agree and promise to give priority treatment to any official motion by the parliament to get rid of the law against insulting foreign heads of state.

Lol :)

I suppose they realized 'Lets get rid of this hot potato ASAFP'. Not to mention being a bit of a middle finger to the likes of Erdogan.

You Dutch should insult the Queen of England next!

Okay I'll stop..... lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 10:20:40 am

I'm sure the British don't need any Dutch help in coming up with creative ways to insult the Queen.
God shave the queen!

(although I sometimes wish, being an anti royalist, but still, that our previous queen would have shown some of the same perseverance and stubborn-ness as the old lady in the UK does, and not have given up the throne for a rather early retirement, to her son, who publicly was known as "Prins Pils" for having a habit of leading the student's drinking life. Whenever I see our new king making a public appearance, I can't help but think "darn, this new king really isn't the brightest light in the city", in contrast to his mother, who was sharp minded and witty. I fear he kinda went from Prins Pils to King Korsakov. I think I can understand our old queen though. She lost her second eldest son to an avalanche, and that clearly hit her hard. She secceeded not too long after that)

EDIT: in other news, the international research group Reporters Sans Frontiers (reporters without borders), which investigates press freedom worldwide, has posted it's results for 2015. The Netherlands get second place, bested only by Finland, as country with the most freedom of press. We are reprimanded though, because reporters are not allowed to photograph members of parliament at their work, without prior appointment.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking (https://rsf.org/en/ranking)

The worst freedom of press is to be found in Eritrea, at the 180th place. Turkey also scores badly, and ends up in the lower regions at the 151th place.
Within the EU, the biggest shift compared to last year is for Poland, which went from 18th place down to 47th. This has much to do with the new law which allows the minister of Finance to hire and fire directors for the public broadcast channels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 10:47:34 am

I KEEP CLICKING NEW POST BUT THERE IS NO NEW POST!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 20, 2016, 11:13:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 10:20:40 am

She lost her second eldest son to an avalanche, and that clearly hit her hard. She secceeded not too long after that)

She became an independent country?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 20, 2016, 11:56:30 am

If Trump is any indication, seems like he would make the score drop if he is President.

About the only complaints they seem to have for the US is lack of whistleblower protection, not having a federal 'shield law', and cyber-surveillance (NSA and all that).

And guess who is slightly less worse than Eritrea? NK.... Funny how someone manages to be worse than NK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on April 20, 2016, 02:34:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 10:20:40 am

The Netherlands get second place, bested only by Finland, as country with the most freedom of press.

That's funny as shit, considering that practically all Finnish newspapers are staffed by right-wing hacks exercising their hard-earned freedom to spout vapid propaganda in favour of the government's idiotic austerity measures. Not that it makes Finland worse than the rest of the world – the current global standards are apparently low enough to allow any old turd to float to the top.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 02:36:36 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 20, 2016, 11:13:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 10:20:40 am

She lost her second eldest son to an avalanche, and that clearly hit her hard. She secceeded not too long after that)

She became an independent country?

I thought secession (crap double c, no double c, I guess it's single c and I goofed the first time) also to be the verb used when a monarch passes on the throne to the next in line. Enlighten me with the correct verb if I am royally wrong there please.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 02:38:34 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 20, 2016, 02:37:52 pm

Abdication.

Isn't an abdication forced upon the monarch?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 20, 2016, 02:39:51 pm

Abdicate?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 03:01:06 pm

Abdication (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdication) is correct. Succession is succeeding the former monarch, that is, it's what the successor does. I mean... well, you have examples of me using it and its variants in two sentences, that should be good. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2016, 03:41:50 pm

okay thanks that's what got me confused I guess

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 21, 2016, 10:40:44 am

The Turkish consulate has called upon the Turkish people living in the Netherlands to "report any insults to the Turkish state, the Turkish people or the Turkish president directly to the consulate", to a special telephone number installed for the matter.

Our Dutch government and parliament are not amused, and have called for a priority parliament meeting to be scheduled about it. (We Dutch kinda don't take lightly to citizens ratting on citizens ever since we have the trauma of world war 2, were a lot of Dutch people ratted out Jews and members of the resistance to the German occupants. We killed a lot of them by hanging and shaved their girlfriends' and wives' heads bald once we were liberated) The outcome will probably be that Erdogan will be reprimanded about messing with another nation's internal affairs, and get a lesson in freedom of expression from our embassador.

Besides, insulting the Turkish president is nothing new here. It even happened in parliament in 2011, when member of parliament for the PVV, Raymond the Roon, said during a parliament session about Erdogan that "once again the islamic monkey has come out of the sleeve. This time he resides in Istanbul and is called Erdogan".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 21, 2016, 09:45:50 pm

In Essen, Germany, two Salafists have been arrested after a bomb attack on a Sikh temple.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160421/sikh-temple-bomb-attack-salafists-arrested-police

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:22:35 am

Why would they bomb a Sikh temple? Seems like a weird target.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 22, 2016, 01:23:46 am

Same reason they'd bomb anything else, I suppose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am

To avenge Sikh/German bombing Syria? To kill moderate muslims sikh leaders? Because Sikh represent Israel?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 22, 2016, 01:50:17 am

Because Sikhs are just as infidel as Christians

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 02:06:21 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 22, 2016, 01:50:17 am

Because Sikhs are just as infidel as Christians

Yeah, and in their theology, infidels aren't something to be massacred, but to be dominated. Unless they fight back, in which case you can massacre them ofc. If their were teens, I guess you can't expect them to be even moderately coherent though.

Anyway, I'm just surprised, because Sikh aren't their main target, so I was wondering if there was something to know about this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 22, 2016, 03:53:46 am

I'd find it more likely that the Sikh temple would be bombed by right-wing extremists than by salafists. Sikh are often mistaken for muslims, just because they wear turbans, and have been the victim of anti-muslim attacks before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 22, 2016, 08:36:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 22, 2016, 03:53:46 am

I'd find it more likely that the Sikh temple would be bombed by right-wing extremists than by salafists. Sikh are often mistaken for muslims, just because they wear turbans, and have been the victim of anti-muslim attacks before.

Even here in the US.

Maybe those guys mistook them for shiia or something? Who knows....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 22, 2016, 09:07:10 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am

To avenge Sikh/German bombing Syria? To kill moderate muslims sikh leaders? Because Sikh represent Israel?

Because they're angry 16 year old Salafist radicals. The Sikhs are a different religion, no further justification is needed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on April 22, 2016, 04:49:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 22, 2016, 03:53:46 am

I'd find it more likely that the Sikh temple would be bombed by right-wing extremists than by salafists. Sikh are often mistaken for muslims, just because they wear turbans, and have been the victim of anti-muslim attacks before.

Sikhs and Muslims have a long, nasty history. This really isn't out of character for Islamists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 23, 2016, 05:57:14 am

Sure. What is that history? Because I'm not aware of it. (And I'm not tryng to be snarky. I've just not seen Sikh being attacked by Islamists in the west yet (where Sikh are a tiny minority and there are plenty of other, more likely target, so I'm trying to understand the context here).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 23, 2016, 07:12:34 am

Perhaps they wanted to kill jews, but found out that jewish sites are nowadays better protected than (Belgian) nuclear power plants, and improvised on the Sikh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on April 23, 2016, 08:46:04 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 23, 2016, 05:57:14 am

Sure. What is that history? Because I'm not aware of it. (And I'm not tryng to be snarky. I've just not seen Sikh being attacked by Islamists in the west yet (where Sikh are a tiny minority and there are plenty of other, more likely target, so I'm trying to understand the context here).

Sikhism was persecuted by Muslims in it's early days. One of the 10 Gurus of the faith was supposedly executed by a Muslim emperor for refusing to convert to Islam, as well as a century or two of oppression.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 23, 2016, 04:58:35 pm

The Dutch columist Ebru Umar has been arrested in Turkey by the police.
She told the paper Metro, one of the Dutch newspapers she writes for, that she is now standing behind locked iron gates at the police station.
She would have gone to the hospital as well (which is required by law to prove with 'before' and 'after' pictures that there is no torture done during police questioning), but for some reason this was cancelled.

Last week she wrote in the Metro about the call-out by the Turkish consulate to Turks in the Netherlands, and compared it to NSB practices (the NSB was the party which collaborated with the German occupants and ratted on a lot of jews and resistance fighters, which I mentioned earlier), and wrote 'to each Netherturk that actually supports this call-out by the consulate to play NSB, and rat out Dutch people in the Netherlands that have an opinion about Sultan Erdogan, the greatest dictator Turkey has known since the foundation of the Turkish republic in 1932: Go fuck yourself"

The ministry of foreign affairs has already contacted the embassy in Ankara, and is on the case.

the parliamentary faction of the governing liberal party has already summoned the Dutch minster of foreign affairs, and demanded he "considering the worrisome development and the deteriorating state of affairs considering press freedom in Turkey, could the minister of state please inform the parliament with the greatest urgency, immediatly, and without delay, what are the reasons for Turkish authorities to arrest miss Umar, especially if this has any connection to the critical colums he writes?"

In the latest update, Umar reports that she is being held about some tweets about Erdogan.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/media/-columniste-ebru-umar-opgepakt-in-turkije~a4288416/
http://media.tpo.nl/2016/04/23/ebru-umar-turkse-politie-huis-gehaald/
http://www.metronieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/2016/04/metrocolumnist-ebru-umar-opgepakt-in-turkije

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 23, 2016, 05:04:36 pm

I saw a couple days ago, maybe a week ago, about a German journalist getting denied entry at the airport. I'll see if I can find it.

So, um, yeah, make sure Erdogan can't push you Euros around.

Found that article: http://www.politico.eu/article/german-journalist-held-at-istanbul-airport-volker-schwenck/

Also, I don't know why we didn't lash back harder at Erdogans bodyguards treatment of people when he was over here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2016, 06:11:09 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:22:35 am

Why would they bomb a Sikh temple? Seems like a weird target.

Yey religion thred crossover

Why does it seem like a weird target?

Spoiler: religion thread tangent (click to show/hide)

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 20, 2016, 11:13:48 am

She became an independent country?

Oh god the "my body is a dictatorship" pastas

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am

To avenge Sikh/German bombing Syria? To kill moderate muslims sikh leaders? Because Sikh represent Israel?

1. No
2. Sikhs aren't Muslims
3. No
Basically Sikhs are kuffars

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 22, 2016, 01:50:17 am

Because Sikhs are just as infidel as Christians

They're double infidels, at least Christians are people of the book and they're still genocided

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 02:06:21 am

Yeah, and in their theology, infidels aren't something to be massacred, but to be dominated. Unless they fight back, in which case you can massacre them ofc. If their were teens, I guess you can't expect them to be even moderately coherent though.

You've got the wrong theology for the wrong sect

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2015, 03:25:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on November 15, 2015, 01:57:43 pm

The thing is, there's a lot of verses in the Qu'ran talking about peace and love for ones neighbor and etc. There's also quite a few talking about when waging holy war on someone is acceptable, usually in defense of Islam, emphasis there on defense. When foreigners try to take over, basically, and make what what was an Islamic state into a non-Islamic state.

Heh, the birthplace of Christianity is Islamic land. Caliph Abu Bakr in order to stop the early Muslim community from fracturing upon the death of Muhammed (as many tribal leaders declared themselves successor to the prophet) himself declared that since there is only one God, there is only one community. Secession and apostasy was declared treason. This was supposed to be a short term solution but changed Islam to be a sociopolitical force that has conquered people from one end of the Atlantic to the Pacific. Caliph Abu Bakr's general crushed the rebels and once more reunified the Muslim community. The Byzantines and Sassanid were taking advantage of this chaos, gearing up to remove their southern threat - invasion was inevitable in the long term. So Caliph Abu Bakr decides to strike first. The Arabs being nomads and traders were well versed in their enemies' tactics and knew that they were exhausted from having warred with each other for so long. Caliph Abu Bakr gathered his advisers and prepared for a campaign against the Byzantines and Sassanids, who although weakened, were still the two greatest military powers of their time.
Unfortunately Caliph Abu Bakr grows ill and knows he is soon to pass away, so he announces he wishes to appoint Umar as his successor. Umar was a large imposing military commander who the council feared was not the right man for the job so to say, as his fearsome imposition could present the wrong image. Then Ali endorsed him and all was well, Umar became Caliph Umar. As soon as he took office, he took to the military campaign.

Caliph Umar took the notion of the Ummah being the one good community and expanded it - anything outside the Ummah was immoral, chaotic and evil, for it did not live up to the laws of God. And so the world becomes divided into two realms, the Dar-al Islam and the Dar-al Harb, the Realm of Submission to God and peace and the Realm of War respectively. The Dar-al Harb were infidels, and were justified in declaring Jihad against them. This is the first Jihad not as say, an inner struggle. This is the first Jihad with a military dimension used in order to justify an invasion into foreign lands, in this case the Byzantine southern Meditteranean lands, Levantine lands and the Persian Mesopotamian lands and most significantly of all - the Sassanid lands beyond the Persian mountains. The moral issue of foreign conquest was no longer a concern, with the purpose of spreading God's truth the military Jihad was a noble act and all soldiers were committed to the campaign. The impact of this precedent remains to this day, made only further so after the assassination of Uthman and the partisans of Ali left and formed the Khawarjites, redefining sinners as being infidels, allowing the definition of Jihad to be applicable even to the Muslim world (whereupon they would do things like attack marketplaces full of merchants with hidden daggers).

The Khawarjites were sorta dickheads like that
Anyways people of the book you can subjugate as long as you consider the whole people of the book thing valid and do not hold them as kuffar; that's more in line with something like "pay your Dhimmi tax and do whatever it is you want to do." Its modern incarnation is probably Saudi style tolerance where you can do what you want to do as long as you don't try spread your faith, as apostasy is punishable by death. I bring up Saudi Arabia because it's notable that they haven't been known to have executed anyone for it in recent times, but they will still expel you and punish you in some other non-capital way because they don't want that shit. Also in Shariah courts (even in today's nations with Shariah law) for example, in a settlement a Muslim will get full settlement, people of the book (Jews or Christians) get half and others get a sixteenth - Sikhs being under others. Salafists specifically hold that Sunni Islam is true Islam, but that their Sunni Islam is the true Sunni Islam. This wouldn't really be much of an issue but they also hold the belief that non-Muslims and Shiites (for they are both kuffar) must be removed with physical jihad to make way for Dar-al Islam.

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 02:06:21 am

Anyway, I'm just surprised, because Sikh aren't their main target, so I was wondering if there was something to know about this.

Sikhs are in their main target, their main target is just a very big one that happens to include most of the world. Their physical jihad is given priority based off of political concerns as much as religious ones so that may give the impression that they hate x group more than y but it's mostly a case of ability and opportunity.

Quote from: martinuzz on April 22, 2016, 03:53:46 am

I'd find it more likely that the Sikh temple would be bombed by right-wing extremists than by salafists. Sikh are often mistaken for muslims, just because they wear turbans, and have been the victim of anti-muslim attacks before.

Which is stupid because Muslim religious gear is not turbans as well. Numpty Murricans, hearts in the right place, passions in firearms, brains in poor judgement - argleblargle! It is painful when people do such great evil under the impression of great good. Hey, relevant to Salafism :D
In Yurop right-wing terrorism is more to do with setting refugee housing centres on fire or a few years ago murdering leftists/politicians (street wars in Greece is very ostensible). If you've been keeping up with the riots in Germany between refugee Sunnis and apostates, Sunnis and Shiites and the recent segregation of Christians and Sunni refugees by the police it's not surprising that the Sikhs would get pulled into this some day, especially given their bloody history

Quote from: Sheb on April 23, 2016, 05:57:14 am

Sure. What is that history? Because I'm not aware of it. (And I'm not tryng to be snarky. I've just not seen Sikh being attacked by Islamists in the west yet (where Sikh are a tiny minority and there are plenty of other, more likely target, so I'm trying to understand the context here).

Sikhism was born in the Punjab region of India which was on the frontier of the various Islamic invasions that rekt the Hindus and then rekt them again and again from time to time (much in the same manner that the reconquest of Zoroastrian Persia was bloodier than the actual conquest of Persia). Sikhism was born in this environment but was pretty chill most of the time, saying everyone be equal be they man or woman, WAHE GURU! This sort of populism allowed Sikhism to grow rapidly through Punjab because the Hindu caste system and the Islamic treatment of Polytheists was making some people quite depressed and Sikhism let you walk around with twin swords, and this is scientifically proven to make you happier (well, they didn't actually carry swords for religious reasons at that time. That comes with Guru Hargobind).

Around this time the Mughal Empire was conquering India. The Mughal Empire inherited the legacy of the Mongol Empire and the Timurids, and this included the Mongol traditions towards religion and conquest - meaning that after your bloody conquest, once you got off your saddle you'd actually be quite tolerant of other religions and so besides the bloodshed from conquest (which ended rather quickly thanks to shrewd diplomacy, alliances with Hindu nobles, administrative genius and the usage of firearms, artillery and European trade contacts/weapons), Mughal India was pretty relaxed and Hindu, Sikh and Muslim got along relatively ok.

That is until the Mughal throne fell to Emperor Jahangir, who when it came to religious tolerance was actually tolerant as fuck. His court was full of Shiites, Sunnis, Jesuits, Hindus, and he probably would've grabbed some Jews if he had any, he even let religious debates happen between everyone without any bloodshed (even warning his Muslim nobles not to start shit by trying forced conversions). A pretty chill guy who was addicted to opium, alcohol and women - he was haram as fuck; yet there was one religion to whom he would not show mercy - the Sikhs.

Guru Arjan, the fifth Guru was the Guru who first codified the Sikh religion into its own first religious canon (that was independent of any other faith), included texts from other religions - including Sunni Islam and Hinduism. Emperor Jahangir noticed this and wanted to make some changes to the Sikh canon (remove all references to Hinduism and Islam) and wanted Guru Arjan to convert to Islam so when Guru Arjan said no pls, Emperor Jahangir sent him on his way with tea and biscuits tortured him to death by pouring hot sand all over him for five days, at which point he walked into a river never to be seen again.

The next Guru was Guru Arjan's son, Guru Hargobind. Guru Hargobind thought it was pretty shit that his father got tortured to death so he thought, hey everyone should have swords, one to symbolize the spiritual discipline of Sikhism and the other to fuck your shit up if you start shit. This starts the birth of the Sikh saint-soldier and lays the foundation of the Sikh Empire.

After Emperor Jahangir the World-Conqueror (fuck that's a great epithet) died of a cold, the throne passed to Emperor Jahan. Interestingly there was some courtly intrigue that essentially fucked over the religiously tolerant eldest son who wanted syncretic Hinduslamism, whilst Emperor Jahan was to turn out to be in terms of religious tolerance akin to a champion of Khorne. Eventually the Mughal Empire got so fucked up from sectarian fighting, court spending, the Emperors killing each other in an orgy of CKII violent intrigue and the Maratha Empire's attacks that it all began to fall apart.

The zenith of "oh shit what are you doing" happened under Emperor Aurangzeb who managed to make the Mughal Empire the richest and most powerful Empire in the world - but simultaneously doomed it to destruction. Emperor Aurangzeb conquered his way through India to reach the Mughal Empire's largest extent, but abandoned the Mughal plurality of religions in favour of sharia law. Buddhists, Hindus, Sufi and Shiite Muslims, Sikhs and Jesuits became kuffar. Religious leaders were executed (including the ninth Sikh guru), taxes were laid on the infidel, Christians enslaved, Hindu temples demolished and mosques built in their place, and in accordance with shariah made alcoholism, gambling, castration, music, opiates, blasphemy, apostasy and all that illegal. Also did some other shit like destroy Dharmic schools. In short - went full retard, ruling over a very large Empire of people who hated the Mughals.
The resulting endless series of civil wars managed to turn the richest state and most powerful state in the world into an Empire of eternal decline.

The during all this the Sikhs sought to overthrow the increasingly violent and tyrannical Mughals by building their own Empire. So they did. Thus Guru Gobind Singh (the final Guru and successor to the one that just got executed) put their martial discipline to martial practice and joined all the wars against and within the Mughal Empire, to carve out the Sikh Empire.

Then during and after that the East India Company was invited into the Mughal remnant's lands to protect them (unable to defeat the aggressive and talented Marathan army). After the Marathan army began to age poorly (its experience being lost on new recruits whilst the EIC's army only got more professional) eventually the Marathan Empire was defeated and I can only assume at some point the Mughals asked when the EIC would be leaving, presumably met with diplomatic-speak for "This guy thinks we're leaving lel."

After a while the Sikh Empire began to weaken and the Sikhs began taking up arms and engaged in a perpetual state of uneasy rebellion against the Sikh court, continuing to increase the already large military - at which point the British were all spooked out by a powerful military with no government to restrain them and thought "oh shit man what do we do". So the EIC began military buildup with the Sikhs, and so began two militaries building up against one another each thinking the other is about to start shit.
Thus began the Anglo-Sikh wars, at which point the Sikhs came up with the brilliant strategy of "if we kill so many of them, they may get demoralized and quit." And so they did. The British army nearly faced complete annihilation (saint-soldiers yo) in a way that has probably never been closer to reality than outside of the world wars. Eventually the British got the upper hand and the Sikh army refused to surrender, meaning when they lost the army was effectively broken (the army refused to surrender when faced with total annihilation) and the Empire was gradually absorbed into British India (with one more war).

From then on things calmed down a bit, with all the religions growing with the EIC pursuing a policy of "do whatever, just give us your textiles" and then the British Raj pursued religious neutrality (after concluding the Indian religions were too adherent to custom and tradition to change them with enlightened fedora values lel) leaving relative peace. Relative, because tensions were building up big - tension reached the all-time high when plans for Indian independence were beginning to be drawn up. Religious riots and killings started to begin, and the British Raj concluded "we can deal with this if the Indian army is with us... If they are." After the loss of Malaya though the Brits felt nah we can't do this, this is too big to handle. So they started drawing up plans for independence with the nationalist leaders, Muslim leaders, Sikh leaders, untouchable leaders and so on whilst Gandhi was probably crying in anguish as his pluralist dream began to decay.

The Muslim areas were partitioned into East and West Pakistan (with Punjab within West Pakistan being designated as Sikh provinces) and Hindu India. All this tension finally found a fault line to release all this religious tension, specifically on the political lines partitioned as all the religious people caught on the borders were caught in brutal religious violence that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives as Sikhs on the borders flocked to Punjab, Hindus to India and Muslims to West Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Emphasis on hundreds of thousands died and everyone had a horrible time.

Nowadays the British Raj's ideological legacy of unity has helped temper religious violence, but along the borders still the violence is occasionally sore and Islamists and Hindu nationalists (even now Buddhist nationalists are joining the fray) flares up from time to time with killings, revenge killings, mob killings, honour killings and so on.

Besides being dickheads in general, the salafists born and raised in the West that MUST REMOVE SIKH are probably those of rural Pakistani stock, or else are one of the newly arrived from rural Pakistan/grew up in such a community. Or could just be general dickheads who just want to remove Sikhs because they are infidels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 23, 2016, 11:09:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2016, 06:11:09 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:22:35 am

Why would they bomb a Sikh temple? Seems like a weird target.

Yey religion thred crossover

Why does it seem like a weird target?

Spoiler: religion thread tangent (click to show/hide)

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 20, 2016, 11:13:48 am

She became an independent country?

Oh god the "my body is a dictatorship" pastas

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am

To avenge Sikh/German bombing Syria? To kill moderate muslims sikh leaders? Because Sikh represent Israel?

1. No
2. Sikhs aren't Muslims
3. No
Basically Sikhs are kuffars

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 22, 2016, 01:50:17 am

Because Sikhs are just as infidel as Christians

They're double infidels, at least Christians are people of the book and they're still genocided

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 02:06:21 am

Yeah, and in their theology, infidels aren't something to be massacred, but to be dominated. Unless they fight back, in which case you can massacre them ofc. If their were teens, I guess you can't expect them to be even moderately coherent though.

You've got the wrong theology for the wrong sect

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2015, 03:25:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on November 15, 2015, 01:57:43 pm

The thing is, there's a lot of verses in the Qu'ran talking about peace and love for ones neighbor and etc. There's also quite a few talking about when waging holy war on someone is acceptable, usually in defense of Islam, emphasis there on defense. When foreigners try to take over, basically, and make what what was an Islamic state into a non-Islamic state.

Heh, the birthplace of Christianity is Islamic land. Caliph Abu Bakr in order to stop the early Muslim community from fracturing upon the death of Muhammed (as many tribal leaders declared themselves successor to the prophet) himself declared that since there is only one God, there is only one community. Secession and apostasy was declared treason. This was supposed to be a short term solution but changed Islam to be a sociopolitical force that has conquered people from one end of the Atlantic to the Pacific. Caliph Abu Bakr's general crushed the rebels and once more reunified the Muslim community. The Byzantines and Sassanid were taking advantage of this chaos, gearing up to remove their southern threat - invasion was inevitable in the long term. So Caliph Abu Bakr decides to strike first. The Arabs being nomads and traders were well versed in their enemies' tactics and knew that they were exhausted from having warred with each other for so long. Caliph Abu Bakr gathered his advisers and prepared for a campaign against the Byzantines and Sassanids, who although weakened, were still the two greatest military powers of their time.
Unfortunately Caliph Abu Bakr grows ill and knows he is soon to pass away, so he announces he wishes to appoint Umar as his successor. Umar was a large imposing military commander who the council feared was not the right man for the job so to say, as his fearsome imposition could present the wrong image. Then Ali endorsed him and all was well, Umar became Caliph Umar. As soon as he took office, he took to the military campaign.

Caliph Umar took the notion of the Ummah being the one good community and expanded it - anything outside the Ummah was immoral, chaotic and evil, for it did not live up to the laws of God. And so the world becomes divided into two realms, the Dar-al Islam and the Dar-al Harb, the Realm of Submission to God and peace and the Realm of War respectively. The Dar-al Harb were infidels, and were justified in declaring Jihad against them. This is the first Jihad not as say, an inner struggle. This is the first Jihad with a military dimension used in order to justify an invasion into foreign lands, in this case the Byzantine southern Meditteranean lands, Levantine lands and the Persian Mesopotamian lands and most significantly of all - the Sassanid lands beyond the Persian mountains. The moral issue of foreign conquest was no longer a concern, with the purpose of spreading God's truth the military Jihad was a noble act and all soldiers were committed to the campaign. The impact of this precedent remains to this day, made only further so after the assassination of Uthman and the partisans of Ali left and formed the Khawarjites, redefining sinners as being infidels, allowing the definition of Jihad to be applicable even to the Muslim world (whereupon they would do things like attack marketplaces full of merchants with hidden daggers).

The Khawarjites were sorta dickheads like that
Anyways people of the book you can subjugate as long as you consider the whole people of the book thing valid and do not hold them as kuffar; that's more in line with something like "pay your Dhimmi tax and do whatever it is you want to do." Its modern incarnation is probably Saudi style tolerance where you can do what you want to do as long as you don't try spread your faith, as apostasy is punishable by death. I bring up Saudi Arabia because it's notable that they haven't been known to have executed anyone for it in recent times, but they will still expel you and punish you in some other non-capital way because they don't want that shit. Also in Shariah courts (even in today's nations with Shariah law) for example, in a settlement a Muslim will get full settlement, people of the book (Jews or Christians) get half and others get a sixteenth - Sikhs being under others. Salafists specifically hold that Sunni Islam is true Islam, but that their Sunni Islam is the true Sunni Islam. This wouldn't really be much of an issue but they also hold the belief that non-Muslims and Shiites (for they are both kuffar) must be removed with physical jihad to make way for Dar-al Islam.

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 02:06:21 am

Anyway, I'm just surprised, because Sikh aren't their main target, so I was wondering if there was something to know about this.

Sikhs are in their main target, their main target is just a very big one that happens to include most of the world. Their physical jihad is given priority based off of political concerns as much as religious ones so that may give the impression that they hate x group more than y but it's mostly a case of ability and opportunity.

Quote from: martinuzz on April 22, 2016, 03:53:46 am

I'd find it more likely that the Sikh temple would be bombed by right-wing extremists than by salafists. Sikh are often mistaken for muslims, just because they wear turbans, and have been the victim of anti-muslim attacks before.

Which is stupid because Muslim religious gear is not turbans as well. Numpty Murricans, hearts in the right place, passions in firearms, brains in poor judgement - argleblargle! It is painful when people do such great evil under the impression of great good. Hey, relevant to Salafism :D
In Yurop right-wing terrorism is more to do with setting refugee housing centres on fire or a few years ago murdering leftists/politicians (street wars in Greece is very ostensible). If you've been keeping up with the riots in Germany between refugee Sunnis and apostates, Sunnis and Shiites and the recent segregation of Christians and Sunni refugees by the police it's not surprising that the Sikhs would get pulled into this some day, especially given their bloody history

Quote from: Sheb on April 23, 2016, 05:57:14 am

Sure. What is that history? Because I'm not aware of it. (And I'm not tryng to be snarky. I've just not seen Sikh being attacked by Islamists in the west yet (where Sikh are a tiny minority and there are plenty of other, more likely target, so I'm trying to understand the context here).

Sikhism was born in the Punjab region of India which was on the frontier of the various Islamic invasions that rekt the Hindus and then rekt them again and again from time to time (much in the same manner that the reconquest of Zoroastrian Persia was bloodier than the actual conquest of Persia). Sikhism was born in this environment but was pretty chill most of the time, saying everyone be equal be they man or woman, WAHE GURU! This sort of populism allowed Sikhism to grow rapidly through Punjab because the Hindu caste system and the Islamic treatment of Polytheists was making some people quite depressed and Sikhism let you walk around with twin swords, and this is scientifically proven to make you happier (well, they didn't actually carry swords for religious reasons at that time. That comes with Guru Hargobind).

Around this time the Mughal Empire was conquering India. The Mughal Empire inherited the legacy of the Mongol Empire and the Timurids, and this included the Mongol traditions towards religion and conquest - meaning that after your bloody conquest, once you got off your saddle you'd actually be quite tolerant of other religions and so besides the bloodshed from conquest (which ended rather quickly thanks to shrewd diplomacy, alliances with Hindu nobles, administrative genius and the usage of firearms, artillery and European trade contacts/weapons), Mughal India was pretty relaxed and Hindu, Sikh and Muslim got along relatively ok.

That is until the Mughal throne fell to Emperor Jahangir, who when it came to religious tolerance was actually tolerant as fuck. His court was full of Shiites, Sunnis, Jesuits, Hindus, and he probably would've grabbed some Jews if he had any, he even let religious debates happen between everyone without any bloodshed (even warning his Muslim nobles not to start shit by trying forced conversions). A pretty chill guy who was addicted to opium, alcohol and women - he was haram as fuck; yet there was one religion to whom he would not show mercy - the Sikhs.

Guru Arjan, the fifth Guru was the Guru who first codified the Sikh religion into its own first religious canon (that was independent of any other faith), included texts from other religions - including Sunni Islam and Hinduism. Emperor Jahangir noticed this and wanted to make some changes to the Sikh canon (remove all references to Hinduism and Islam) and wanted Guru Arjan to convert to Islam so when Guru Arjan said no pls, Emperor Jahangir sent him on his way with tea and biscuits tortured him to death by pouring hot sand all over him for five days, at which point he walked into a river never to be seen again.

The next Guru was Guru Arjan's son, Guru Hargobind. Guru Hargobind thought it was pretty shit that his father got tortured to death so he thought, hey everyone should have swords, one to symbolize the spiritual discipline of Sikhism and the other to fuck your shit up if you start shit. This starts the birth of the Sikh saint-soldier and lays the foundation of the Sikh Empire.

After Emperor Jahangir the World-Conqueror (fuck that's a great epithet) died of a cold, the throne passed to Emperor Jahan. Interestingly there was some courtly intrigue that essentially fucked over the religiously tolerant eldest son who wanted syncretic Hinduslamism, whilst Emperor Jahan was to turn out to be in terms of religious tolerance akin to a champion of Khorne. Eventually the Mughal Empire got so fucked up from sectarian fighting, court spending, the Emperors killing each other in an orgy of CKII violent intrigue and the Maratha Empire's attacks that it all began to fall apart.

The zenith of "oh shit what are you doing" happened under Emperor Aurangzeb who managed to make the Mughal Empire the richest and most powerful Empire in the world - but simultaneously doomed it to destruction. Emperor Aurangzeb conquered his way through India to reach the Mughal Empire's largest extent, but abandoned the Mughal plurality of religions in favour of sharia law. Buddhists, Hindus, Sufi and Shiite Muslims, Sikhs and Jesuits became kuffar. Religious leaders were executed (including the ninth Sikh guru), taxes were laid on the infidel, Christians enslaved, Hindu temples demolished and mosques built in their place, and in accordance with shariah made alcoholism, gambling, castration, music, opiates, blasphemy, apostasy and all that illegal. Also did some other shit like destroy Dharmic schools. In short - went full retard, ruling over a very large Empire of people who hated the Mughals.
The resulting endless series of civil wars managed to turn the richest state and most powerful state in the world into an Empire of eternal decline.

The during all this the Sikhs sought to overthrow the increasingly violent and tyrannical Mughals by building their own Empire. So they did. Thus Guru Gobind Singh (the final Guru and successor to the one that just got executed) put their martial discipline to martial practice and joined all the wars against and within the Mughal Empire, to carve out the Sikh Empire.

Then during and after that the East India Company was invited into the Mughal remnant's lands to protect them (unable to defeat the aggressive and talented Marathan army). After the Marathan army began to age poorly (its experience being lost on new recruits whilst the EIC's army only got more professional) eventually the Marathan Empire was defeated and I can only assume at some point the Mughals asked when the EIC would be leaving, presumably met with diplomatic-speak for "This guy thinks we're leaving lel."

After a while the Sikh Empire began to weaken and the Sikhs began taking up arms and engaged in a perpetual state of uneasy rebellion against the Sikh court, continuing to increase the already large military - at which point the British were all spooked out by a powerful military with no government to restrain them and thought "oh shit man what do we do". So the EIC began military buildup with the Sikhs, and so began two militaries building up against one another each thinking the other is about to start shit.
Thus began the Anglo-Sikh wars, at which point the Sikhs came up with the brilliant strategy of "if we kill so many of them, they may get demoralized and quit." And so they did. The British army nearly faced complete annihilation (saint-soldiers yo) in a way that has probably never been closer to reality than outside of the world wars. Eventually the British got the upper hand and the Sikh army refused to surrender, meaning when they lost the army was effectively broken (the army refused to surrender when faced with total annihilation) and the Empire was gradually absorbed into British India (with one more war).

From then on things calmed down a bit, with all the religions growing with the EIC pursuing a policy of "do whatever, just give us your textiles" and then the British Raj pursued religious neutrality (after concluding the Indian religions were too adherent to custom and tradition to change them with enlightened fedora values lel) leaving relative peace. Relative, because tensions were building up big - tension reached the all-time high when plans for Indian independence were beginning to be drawn up. Religious riots and killings started to begin, and the British Raj concluded "we can deal with this if the Indian army is with us... If they are." After the loss of Malaya though the Brits felt nah we can't do this, this is too big to handle. So they started drawing up plans for independence with the nationalist leaders, Muslim leaders, Sikh leaders, untouchable leaders and so on whilst Gandhi was probably crying in anguish as his pluralist dream began to decay.

The Muslim areas were partitioned into East and West Pakistan (with Punjab within West Pakistan being designated as Sikh provinces) and Hindu India. All this tension finally found a fault line to release all this religious tension, specifically on the political lines partitioned as all the religious people caught on the borders were caught in brutal religious violence that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives as Sikhs on the borders flocked to Punjab, Hindus to India and Muslims to West Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Emphasis on hundreds of thousands died and everyone had a horrible time.

Nowadays the British Raj's ideological legacy of unity has helped temper religious violence, but along the borders still the violence is occasionally sore and Islamists and Hindu nationalists (even now Buddhist nationalists are joining the fray) flares up from time to time with killings, revenge killings, mob killings, honour killings and so on.

Besides being dickheads in general, the salafists born and raised in the West that MUST REMOVE SIKH are probably those of rural Pakistani stock, or else are one of the newly arrived from rural Pakistan/grew up in such a community. Or could just be general dickheads who just want to remove Sikhs because they are infidels.

Sikh OP
YHWH pls nerf

That was actually really cool though, LW. Was not aware of the Sikh history like that, and had not read enough of the religion thread to see it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 01:31:51 am

Spoiler: mo religion mo thread (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 23, 2016, 11:09:23 pm

Sikh OP
YHWH pls nerf

I remember reading a bit from a British soldier's experience during one of the wars, now it may or may not have been against Sikhs but this soldier was rather astonished at the bravery and determination of the Indian Sepoys (professional soldiers in the former employ of the Mughals, so maybe some were Sikhs), commending them on having broken the British square (something he had never seen anyone before achieve). When the square was broken the British brought out their cannon which turned the tide of battle - not before one soldier ran up to the cannon and and shoved his arm down the barrel trying to snatch the missiles that were killing his comrades (before his arm was subsequently destroyed). That is the level of martial discipline that was attained and the level of heroism they strove for. India really produced some of the greatest soldiers the world's known. The Gurkhas as well are a great example of this, where when the EIC wanted commercial freedom to send their merchants through Nepal into Tibet the Nepalese were all stoic and just replied saying if we let your merchants in, their muskets would follow (essentially economic dominance would become the prelude to annexation). The EIC were having real big trouble justifying their existence to Britain as they were a serious economic drain, not providing profit - but they realized if they could begin selling goat wool from the Himalayas (most of the EIC's history could largely be summed up as "give us your textiles") they could get a profit... But they needed access through Nepal. So they fought a horrendously costly war in the mountains of Nepal in materiel and lives and the general Gorkhali response when besieged was fight to the last man through the entire war. After lots of people die the EIC negotiates peace and leaves Nepal between it and the Chinese Empire... Only to find the cashmere wool was already controlled by the Sikhs. They never did get to trade Himalayan wool, making the whole endeavour rather pointless, but what man will do in the pursuit of textiles!
I'd say we've moved on since then but on a stretch we could say our artificial fibre textiles are based upon petroleum which we're still fighting over so some things kinda change, but not really
One of these days we'll kill each other over something really important, like tin or advertising space

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 23, 2016, 11:09:23 pm

That was actually really cool though, LW. Was not aware of the Sikh history like that, and had not read enough of the religion thread to see it.

I don't think I talked about Sikhs before. Really neat thinking about one of those "what ifs," if the syncretic liberal Mughal Emperor-to-be hadn't been snaked by his "ban this sick filth" brother. How do you make it go so wrong so quickly

Really funny thing as well is how the angry Mughal Emperors shot themselves in the foot by denying themselves access to Hindu bankers, reminds me of the whole Jewish banking thing (funniest one for me is when some Christians kicked some Jews out and their townhall burnt down, to rebuild it they had to plead the Jews to come back to give a loan).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 24, 2016, 01:42:44 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 01:31:51 am

I'd say we've moved on since then but on a stretch we could say our artificial fibre textiles are based upon petroleum which we're still fighting over so some things kinda change, but not really
One of these days we'll kill each other over something really important, like tin or advertising space

In a book I read recently, the film industry is on the moon, and they wage wars over copyrights and film production rights and patents and so forth. Which is honestly what I'm guessing will be the likely next step...the blueprints to make the clothing, rather than the materials themselves.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 01:31:51 am

I don't think I talked about Sikhs before. Really neat thinking about one of those "what ifs," if the syncretic liberal Mughal Emperor-to-be hadn't been snaked by his "ban this sick filth" brother. How do you make it go so wrong so quickly

Really funny thing as well is how the angry Mughal Emperors shot themselves in the foot by denying themselves access to Hindu bankers, reminds me of the whole Jewish banking thing (funniest one for me is when some Christians kicked some Jews out and their townhall burnt down, to rebuild it they had to plead the Jews to come back to give a loan).[/spoiler]

There was an alternate history book either recommended or desired at one point that I remember that was supposed to be about if the British Empire had asked and subsequently learned how the Hindi wives they were taking in India had basically no scars from smallpox, and if they'd been able to learn about vaccination for that those few hundred years earlier, and how BrIndia basically would've taken over the world forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 24, 2016, 02:00:36 am

Yay, thanks for the history LW. I wasn't aware that Sikh were parts of the partition plans, neither that they were assigned to Pakistan.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on April 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am
To avenge Sikh/German bombing Syria? To kill moderate muslims sikh leaders? Because Sikh represent Israel?
1. No
2. Sikhs aren't Muslims
3. No
Basically Sikhs are kuffars

I was being ironic. I know Sikh ain't muslims. What I was trying to ask was, given this:

Quote

Sikhs are in their main target, their main target is just a very big one that happens to include most of the world. Their physical jihad is given priority based off of political concerns as much as religious ones so that may give the impression that they hate x group more than y but it's mostly a case of ability and opportunity.

Why the seemingly sudden increase in priority for Sikh given the abundance of other targets with higher priority available? I mean, in Europe, Islamist attacks so far has been targeted at: a) People criticizing Islam (Charlie Hebdo, that Danish cartoonist), b) civilians of countries seen to be at war with Islam (London bombing and that beheading guy, Paris and Brussels attacks (although those were also about blowing up before being arrested), Madrid... and c) Jews (Overlap with b) as they're seen to represent Israel I guess): Brussels Jewish museum attack, Nerah in France. It's not that they don't want to made the rest of the world Dar-al-Islam, it's just that with a target this size, they have to prioritize. So my question was: is there some recent development that mean Sikh are now higher priority or something?

Also, dead kufr don't pay taxes, and how are they going to buy rolexes otherwise.

P.S. Also, do the IS type really adhere to that "religion of the book" thing? To quote Dabiq's latest issue: " There is the religion of Allah,
which is Islam, and then the religion of anything else, which is kufr"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 24, 2016, 02:44:43 am

How much house of lords affects british politics?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 05:39:53 am

Thanks for the cross-info post LW. Don't worry I'm not gonna snarl about keeping religion in the religion thread, I only do that when there's suddenly 5 pages of religion posts within a day or two. This was just good info.

EDIT: Ebru Umar has been released from police custody after being questioned this morning. She is forbidden to leave the country pending trial, being accused of insulting sultan president Erdogan on social media. She has been provided with a lawyer by the Dutch honorary consul in Izmir.
Yesterday evening our prime minister Rutte phoned Umar to inquire into the matter and offer assistance.
He twittered that the ministry of foreign affairs, and minister Koenders are keeping a close eye on events, and doing all they can to assist.
Umar herself reports to have been treated well by the police. "I am sitting outside the station, with a cup of tea", she reported this morning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 10:32:04 am

Spoiler: moooo religion (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2016, 02:00:36 am

Yay, thanks for the history LW. I wasn't aware that Sikh were parts of the partition plans, neither that they were assigned to Pakistan.

I worded that poorly, the most of the mostly Sikh areas were assigned to North-western India where they are today as Sikhish provinces, the ones assigned to Pakistan were the ones who fled from West Pakistan to India because they had loads of Sikhs but were not "official" Sikh provinces
Essentially what went wrong was when a majority x province was assigned to a majority y country

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2016, 02:00:36 am

I was being ironic. I know Sikh ain't muslims. What I was trying to ask was, given this:

Quote

Sikhs are in their main target, their main target is just a very big one that happens to include most of the world. Their physical jihad is given priority based off of political concerns as much as religious ones so that may give the impression that they hate x group more than y but it's mostly a case of ability and opportunity.

Why the seemingly sudden increase in priority for Sikh given the abundance of other targets with higher priority available? I mean, in Europe, Islamist attacks so far has been targeted at: a) People criticizing Islam (Charlie Hebdo, that Danish cartoonist), b) civilians of countries seen to be at war with Islam (London bombing and that beheading guy, Paris and Brussels attacks (although those were also about blowing up before being arrested), Madrid... and c) Jews (Overlap with b) as they're seen to represent Israel I guess): Brussels Jewish museum attack, Nerah in France. It's not that they don't want to made the rest of the world Dar-al-Islam, it's just that with a target this size, they have to prioritize. So my question was: is there some recent development that mean Sikh are now higher priority or something?

I reckoned you prolly knew but I've seen some odd stuff saying Sikhs were Muslims before :P
In regards to priority all that is different is media coverage of the attacks, Salafists have been running around Europe with machetes and such attacking more targets than just cartoonists, critics and Jews
The riots are a good example (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dozens-injured-in-pro-kurdish-protests-in-germany-over-isis-encroachment-9782042.html)
Just look at the murders, they get less coverage than terrorist attacks because they are much less socially disruptive and are useful in gauging this; like the gay Swede ironically murdered or the Ahmadi Muslim murdered for sectarian reasons in Scotland. Much like the girl who stabbed that policeman in Hannover because she couldn't fly to Syria or the one who killed her mother because she fell in love with a Salafist it's mostly an availability thing, at least for the local cells and jihadists. Sikhs haven't really done much at all to warrant this besides be infidels much in the same way killing Germans or Frenchmen only makes sense from the point of view of removing infidels at opportune moments and causing strategic panic. Given that the teens timed it for Vaisakhi (when there'd most likely be the most people using the temple) it's likely they intended to cause the most casualties/disruption to Sikh local ability to practice their faith. Most likely a timing/religious statement thing, just as our one in Scotland time their murder for Easter
Part of the issue I think in regards to this is that our media is mentally unsound and so tends to spend the days immediate of a low-profile attack ignoring it and in high-profile attacks mention it as "apparent" or "possible", even if it is blatantly people getting bombed, and I do get some level of brain melt seeing the first three days spent positing all the ways in which it was white people who did the attack "if things go to form"
They even murdered a bloke in London for being a witch
Maybe these two kids were taking orders from someone who had a master plan to provoke Sikh outrage and try to start more Jihad in Southern Asia? Besides the age and these kids' afiliation with Salafism being known to the police not much else about them is public information yet so I can only assume they took note of the Sikhs holding their holiday at their temple at a time where no one else was really doing anything in their churches or synagogues, and I don't know where this Sikh temple is but a quick look at Essen's largest Churches reveal that most of them are in the city centre whilst I'm willing to bet this temple was somewhere further out and easier to attack
The final possibility is they really hate Sikhs and don't have anyone else they hate more around them; I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say if the police ever have the balls to tell anyone what they find out it's gonna be a combination of all the above
Could also just be that whoever they took orders from convinced them Sikhs were a higher priority

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2016, 02:00:36 am

Also, dead kufr don't pay taxes, and how are they going to buy rolexes otherwise.

People of the book can convert, pay the jizyah or die
Everyone else are idolators (or worse, devil worshippers) who can convert or die
If they're especially unlucky they'll die even after converting to atone for their idolatry
Most Western jihadis are already affluent and don't need infidel taxes to buy rolexes

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2016, 02:00:36 am

P.S. Also, do the IS type really adhere to that "religion of the book" thing?

Nope!
They also hold bad practicing Sunnis to be Kuffar
Ostensibly they've said shit like you can pay the jizyah and live peacefully and if you reject this then your fate is your fault; in practice they've taken whatever, enslaved whoever, massacred whenever and if they wanted to at least be technically legal, just set the jizyah too high to pay and then kill them. There is a difference between the IS type genociding through the ME though and Salafists in the West who are greatly outnumbered, but they're pretty solid in their will for shariah and removal of Christians and Jews. They seem more amenable to taking converts tho than in the ME

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 05:39:53 am

Thanks for the cross-info post LW. Don't worry I'm not gonna snarl about keeping religion in the religion thread, I only do that when there's suddenly 5 pages of religion posts within a day or two. This was just good info.

Don't jynx it xD

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 05:39:53 am

EDIT: Ebru Umar has been released from police custody after being questioned this morning. She is forbidden to leave the country pending trial, being accused of insulting sultan president Erdogan on social media. She has been provided with a lawyer by the Dutch honorary consul in Izmir.
Yesterday evening our prime minister Rutte phoned Umar to inquire into the matter and offer assistance.
He twittered that the ministry of foreign affairs, and minister Koenders are keeping a close eye on events, and doing all they can to assist.
Umar herself reports to have been treated well by the police. "I am sitting outside the station, with a cup of tea", she reported this morning.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/send-us-your-entries-for-our-president-erdogan-insulting-poetry-competition/
The Spectator are offering a £1,000 prize for the most insulting poem to Erdogan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on April 24, 2016, 11:01:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 10:32:04 am

The Spectator are offering a £1,000 prize for the most insulting poem to Erdogan

There once was a Turkman named Erdogan
Who was well blessed with an ample suntan
His moustache lacked class
And he talked from his ass
The EU would remove him if they can.

... this might need some work. *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 01:38:42 pm

The mayor was known as Gökçek,
Ankaran Mansur shouts toxic.
With tax money bought,
A statue handwrought,
Remember -
Respect the Robot!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2016, 01:55:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 10:32:04 am

The Spectator are offering a £1,000 prize for the most insulting poem to Erdogan

Erdogan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Do I win?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 02:18:13 pm

Sultan Erdogan
the dirty shoe hits his face
he is a disgrace

(in muslim culture, hitting someone with a shoe is the worst insult you can make. That, and shoe rhymes with Haiku)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2016, 02:55:27 pm

Probably should emulate the greatest poet of them all, William Shakespeare. lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2016, 03:07:56 pm

So... Austria is having it's Presidential elections today (their system is a Parliamentary one, so the President is really more of a figurehead): http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/austrian-far-right-wins-first-round-presidential-election-norbert-hofer

I looked at wiki and he seems like he might be a generally nice guy, but very little info to go on. He'd certainly be popular with the pro-gun crowd though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 05:35:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 02:18:13 pm

(in muslim culture, hitting someone with a shoe is the worst insult you can make. That, and shoe rhymes with Haiku)

Let me tell you about Cossacks (http://i.imgur.com/xAaoqwq.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 05:35:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 02:18:13 pm

(in muslim culture, hitting someone with a shoe is the worst insult you can make. That, and shoe rhymes with Haiku)

Let me tell you about Cossacks (http://i.imgur.com/xAaoqwq.jpg)

Spoiler: Cossacks are busy writing insults to Putin. Turks can wait (click to show/hide)

(http://kampot.org.ua/uploads/posts/1409666077_kozaku.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 24, 2016, 07:31:52 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 24, 2016, 02:55:27 pm

Probably should emulate the greatest poet of them all, William Shakespeare. lol

A vulgar entertainer, a mere crowdpleaser, the greatest poet of all time? I'd beg to differ. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 24, 2016, 07:35:37 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 pm

Spoiler: Cossacks are busy writing insults to Putin. Turks can wait (click to show/hide)

(http://kampot.org.ua/uploads/posts/1409666077_kozaku.jpg)

That is so beautiful

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 25, 2016, 01:18:55 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 24, 2016, 07:31:52 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 24, 2016, 02:55:27 pm

Probably should emulate the greatest poet of them all, William Shakespeare. lol

A vulgar entertainer, a mere crowdpleaser, the greatest poet of all time? I'd beg to differ. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe)

Case in point: I own at least one book of Goethe's poems, but nothing by Shakespear. And despite that, I've read more Shakespear than Goethe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 03:29:05 am

Theo Maassen, another prominent Dutch comedian, has written a letter to the newspaper in response to Hans Teeuwen's sketch about whoreboy Erdogan.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/theo-maassen-reageert-op-hans-teeuwen-erdogan-wegzetten-als-luie-minnaar-is-een-leugen~a4288612/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/theo-maassen-reageert-op-hans-teeuwen-erdogan-wegzetten-als-luie-minnaar-is-een-leugen~a4288612/)
original text:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Satire.
Jonathan van het Reve neemt het in zijn column (V, 23 april (http://www.volkskrant.nl/media/in-een-vrij-land-moet-satire-helemaal-niets%7Ea4287801/)) op voor Hans Teeuwen. Hij stelt dat satire niets 'moet'. Helemaal mee eens, maar de vraag lijkt mij gerechtvaardigd of alles wat hardop uitgesproken wordt door een humorist automatisch onder de noemer satire valt. Onze vrijheid van meningsuiting is te belangrijk om constant als excuus misbruikt te worden mensen standrechtelijk te beledigen.

 De heer Erdogan wegzetten als een zelfzuchtige en luie minnaar is niet alleen lafhartig en respectloos, het is bovenal een onversneden leugen. Ik heb de heer Erdogan leren kennen als een uiterst bedreven, onbaatzuchtige pijper die er letterlijk geen genoeg van krijgt.

 Dat Hans Teeuwen niet oraal bevredigd is door hem zegt waarschijnlijk meer over het primaire geslachtsorgaan van deze geinponem dan over de ethos van het ons zo bevriende staatshoofd."

translation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Satire.
Jonathan van het Reve defends Hans Teeuwen in his column (V, 23 april (http://www.volkskrant.nl/media/in-een-vrij-land-moet-satire-helemaal-niets%7Ea4287801/)). He argues that satire has no obligations. I totally agree, but it seems justified to ask the question whether everything that is spoken out loud by a comedian would automatically fall under the label of satire. Our freedom of speech is too important to be constantly used as an excuse to publicly insult people.

Depicting mister Erdogan as being a lazy and selfish lover isn't just cowardly and unrespectful, it is, more importantly, a blatant lie.
I have come to know Erdogan myself as a very competent and selfless dicksucker, who literally cannot get enough of sucking cock.

The fact that Hans Teeuwen did not get orally satisfied by him probably tells us more about the primary sex organ of this joker, than it tells us about the ethos of our befriended head of state"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 04:24:41 am

The appartment of journalist Ebru Umar in Amsterdam was broken into and ransacked last night. Umar says she is sure there is a connection between her arrest in Turkey and the break-in, and calls it "pure intimidation and provocation".

She writes "I am in a whirlpool right now. So much is happening right now, but I am trapped. I am not allowed to go home to the Netherlands. My house has been broken open and trashed. My old laptop has been stolen. Good thing I brought my new one to Turkey."

Dutch police and intelligence are investigating the crime. If any evidence is found of Turkish intelligence involvement, we could be facing a major international riot with Turkey.

EDIT:
In related news, program director Viveka Hansson of the Swedish broadcast channel TV4 reports that the Turkish embassy has communicated with her by email to try and stop the broadcast of a documentary about the mass murder on Armenians and other minority groups by the Ottoman empire, during world war 1.

"ofcourse, we can never accept such a thing. We will protest against any attempt to put pressure on us regarding freedom of opinion. This is serious. Which is why it is important to point out events such as this publicly. We will not let embassies, politicians, or any other group moderate our content", the director stated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 04:50:13 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 pm

Spoiler: Cossacks are busy writing insults to Putin. Turks can wait (click to show/hide)

(http://kampot.org.ua/uploads/posts/1409666077_kozaku.jpg)

My life is complete

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 25, 2016, 06:30:19 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 05:35:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 02:18:13 pm

(in muslim culture, hitting someone with a shoe is the worst insult you can make. That, and shoe rhymes with Haiku)

Let me tell you about Cossacks (http://i.imgur.com/xAaoqwq.jpg)

Spoiler: Cossacks are busy writing insults to Putin. Turks can wait (click to show/hide)

(http://kampot.org.ua/uploads/posts/1409666077_kozaku.jpg)

Zaporozhian cossacks, you mean. There are many more kind of Cossacks than Zaporozhian cossacks. Like Terek Cossacks, who're, in my opinion, far better and awesome-er than Zaporozhian ones. My half-sister even married one!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 25, 2016, 07:19:53 am

But then you're biased. Maybe if you werent a relative of one by marriage you'd think that Terek cossacks are far less awesome than Zaphorozian cossacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 25, 2016, 07:47:09 am

I wonder, if angered Erdogan may increase refugee flow in Europe at his own will just to show, that he has stronger memes in posession.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 25, 2016, 07:52:29 am

Meh. The refugee deal was bullshit in more ways than one. I don't think it will matter in the grand scheme of things.

EDIT:
To clarify this, I think I've commented it before: Not only do I think that shovelling the refugees at someone with such a questionable human rights record as Erdogan is of dubious ethicality (not the first time stuff like this has been done, either. As I said, ten years ago illegal immigrants from Southern Europe were handed to Moroccan authorities... who promptly dumped them near the Algerian border in the middle of the Sahara desert), it's also of highly dubious efficacy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 25, 2016, 07:54:36 am

Well, he has threatened to bus refugees to the border in the past.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smirk on April 25, 2016, 08:06:58 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 03:29:05 am

translation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Satire.
Jonathan van het Reve defends Hans Teeuwen in his column (V, 23 april (http://www.volkskrant.nl/media/in-een-vrij-land-moet-satire-helemaal-niets%7Ea4287801/)). He argues that satire has no obligations. I totally agree, but it seems justified to ask the question whether everything that is spoken out loud by a comedian would automatically fall under the label of satire. Our freedom of speech is too important to be constantly used as an excuse to publicly insult people.

Depicting mister Erdogan as being a lazy and selfish lover isn't just cowardly and unrespectful, it is, more importantly, a blatant lie.
I have come to know Erdogan myself as a very competent and selfless dicksucker, who literally cannot get enough of sucking cock.

The fact that Hans Teeuwen did not get orally satisfied by him probably tells us more about the primary sex organ of this joker, than it tells us about the ethos of our befriended head of state"

See, now, that's how you do it. Can't just hammer a bunch of insults into vaguely rhyming form and call it satire; there's skill involved. Boehmermann could stand to learn a thing or two from this Maassen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on April 25, 2016, 11:10:11 am

I agree, this one was actually well a played stab!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 03:16:25 pm

And the whole Erdogan saga springs up some more: http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-demands-offensive-photo-be-taken-down-president-recep-tayyip-erdoga-links-to-death-of-berkin-elvan/

Guy needs to be shown he can't push around other countries like that.

Also, Journalist guy in Turkey says that he wants Trump elected because then we deserve it and get a taste of what the rest of the world deals with. (http://www.politico.eu/article/watching-donald-trump-in-istanbul-authoritarian-regimes/). I suppose outside views could be refreshing, but I don't think we are quite so rock bottom that we deserve it.

Though it could very well be our turn to end up with an authoritarian-esque president.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 04:43:28 pm

So the Austrians have been toying around with fences and they started getting more serious about it after the Hungarians laughed at them for making a "schengen compliant fence" whose gaps German activists just pointed out to migrants, allowing them to just walk around it :P

Anyways this time they're making it more complete but some bishops are all "nah m8 ur not building here" - the fact that the bishops in charge work for the EU bishops commission is pure coincidence
http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/Dioezese_verweigert_Grenzzaun_auf_Kirchengrund-Im_Burgenland-Story-506636

Spoiler: It will be funny to see the Austrians do this (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/OaZkNZY.png)

Quote from: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 03:16:25 pm

And the whole Erdogan saga springs up some more: http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-demands-offensive-photo-be-taken-down-president-recep-tayyip-erdoga-links-to-death-of-berkin-elvan/
Guy needs to be shown he can't push around other countries like that.
Also, Journalist guy in Turkey says that he wants Trump elected because then we deserve it and get a taste of what the rest of the world deals with. (http://www.politico.eu/article/watching-donald-trump-in-istanbul-authoritarian-regimes/). I suppose outside views could be refreshing, but I don't think we are quite so rock bottom that we deserve it.
Though it could very well be our turn to end up with an authoritarian-esque president.

We all deserve it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 04:46:05 pm

What can I say. I like my newspaper's cartoonist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png.html)
banana republic lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 04:49:29 pm

There are only three things in the world that do not fear death, badgers, gurkhas and dutch cartoonists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 25, 2016, 04:53:43 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 04:46:05 pm

What can I say. I like my newspaper's cartoonist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png.html)
banana republic lol

looks like the image is dead

turkey's censure apparatus sure works fast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on April 25, 2016, 04:55:23 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 25, 2016, 04:53:43 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 04:46:05 pm

What can I say. I like my newspaper's cartoonist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png.html)
banana republic lol

looks like the image is dead

turkey's censure apparatus sure works fast

It's still working for me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 04:56:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 04:49:29 pm

There are only three things in the world that do not fear death, Honey Badgers, gurkhas and dutch cartoonists

FIFY

I'm half hoping that Erdogan would dare try to make the US do what he wants with someone that insulted him. Or perhaps he knows that the US isn't going to comply and is instead going after those that he know he can push around.

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on April 25, 2016, 04:55:23 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 25, 2016, 04:53:43 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 04:46:05 pm

What can I say. I like my newspaper's cartoonist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png.html)
banana republic lol

looks like the image is dead

turkey's censure apparatus sure works fast

It's still working for me.

Still up for me.

Edit: Oh, it's being hosted on Marinuzz's photobucket.

edit2: unneccesary dig at Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 25, 2016, 05:01:57 pm

Oh OK, it was a problem on my end. Apparently the image wasn't displaying without enabled javascript.

And, oh man, it's twice as funny for me, since I remember someone calling Turkey as "not a banana republic" just a few months ago, back when they were issuing very thinly veiled threats to invade Syria, as a justification of prediction on "Russian army is about to get rolled over by Turkish army". Oh the irony.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 05:14:18 pm

Image is super dead for me. Anyone care to re-post it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 05:20:45 pm

Spoiler: big image repost attempt (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bananarepublic_zpsaodbairy.png.html)

Are you guys able to quote martinuzz and go to the link though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 05:23:14 pm

Well, something is definitely wrong, since your repost is also ded. Oh well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 05:27:54 pm

Does quoting show the link though? might be a popup blocker or something with Java, as was the case with Sergarr.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 05:31:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 05:27:54 pm

Does quoting show the link though? might be a popup blocker or something with Java, as was the case with Sergarr.

Disabled everything, even followed the link to the source. Just shows "this was incorrectly linked".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 05:34:54 pm

Maybe your browser doesn't like photobucket? *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 25, 2016, 05:47:13 pm

Spoiler: imgur rehost (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ytBWmAB.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 06:29:28 pm

Thank you, OW. It certainly is worth it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 06:47:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 04:56:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 25, 2016, 04:49:29 pm

There are only two things in the world that do not fear death Badgers, gurkhas and dutch cartoonists

FIFY

ftfy

Quote from: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 04:56:21 pm

I'm half hoping that Erdogan would dare try to make the US do what he wants with someone that insulted him. Or perhaps he knows that the US isn't going to comply and is instead going after those that he know he can push around.

USA pls no bully

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 06:55:57 pm

Here's the original newspaper link, if anyone still has trouble seeing the picture.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/bas-van-der-schot~p3761404/3760185/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 25, 2016, 07:05:47 pm

But I don't ik accepteer cookies

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2016, 07:14:39 pm

Dutch public newspaper / broadcast service cookies are relatively harmless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Willfor on April 25, 2016, 07:36:10 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 06:29:28 pm

Thank you, OW. It certainly is worth it

The lesson here, martinuzz, is to stop using photobucket immediately. It's TYOOL 2016, and photobucket has been a sad excuse of a photo hosting site since 2006. :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 25, 2016, 08:08:03 pm

Quote from: Willfor on April 25, 2016, 07:36:10 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 06:29:28 pm

Thank you, OW. It certainly is worth it

The lesson here, martinuzz, is to stop using photobucket immediately. It's TYOOL 2016, and photobucket has been a sad excuse of a photo hosting site since 2006. :(

This may explain why my avatar suddenly disappeared.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 25, 2016, 11:32:30 pm

Quote from: Willfor on April 25, 2016, 07:36:10 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 25, 2016, 06:29:28 pm

Thank you, OW. It certainly is worth it

The lesson here, martinuzz, is to stop using photobucket immediately. It's TYOOL 2016, and photobucket has been a sad excuse of a photo hosting site since 2006. :(

What's TYOOL?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg6xpmcWMAAhFbB.jpg)

Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 03:06:50 am

Most Germans hate their army and would like to see it either gone completely or never used at all, more news at 11.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Willfor on April 26, 2016, 03:15:14 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 26, 2016, 12:10:19 am

"The Year of our Lord", if I had to guess.

Yeah. I've been seeing it used around the internet in that form lately, and I'm pretty glad about it because it always reminds me of the intro animation to Sid Meyer's Colonization from way back in the day every time I use it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 03:17:11 am

Huh, interesting. What's public opinion in Germany like on their NATO membership? Would the average German like to break out of the treaty?

Quote from: Willfor on April 26, 2016, 03:15:14 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 26, 2016, 12:10:19 am

"The Year of our Lord", if I had to guess.

Yeah. I've been seeing it used around the internet in that form lately, and I'm pretty glad about it because it always reminds me of the intro animation to Sid Meyer's Colonization from way back in the day every time I use it.

IT'S #CURRENTYEAROFOURLORD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 26, 2016, 03:42:13 am

You're wrong. Its like YOLO but switched around

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 05:41:39 am

The Turkish chairman of parliament, Ismail Kahraman, has said that TUrkey needs a new, religious constitution, which abolishes secularism.
The chairman is a member of Erdogan's AK party, has been wanting to write a new constitution for a long time now. The old constitution has been written when the army seized control in 1980. Erdogan wants a constitution that gives more authority to the president. But now, removal of secularism has been added to that wishlist.

The AK party has 317 out of 550 seats in parliament. To change the constition, 330 votes are needed, which would mean they need votes from other parties. It is doubtful they will get that support.

The leader of the largest opposition party CHP, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, twittered that "secularism is the most important principle of social peace. Secularism is here to ensure that everyone has religious freedom."

Inb4 Turkey reinstates sharia law and gets kicked out of NATO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg6xpmcWMAAhFbB.jpg)

Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 05:51:01 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 05:41:39 am

Inb4 Turkey reinstates sharia law and gets kicked out of NATO

If Turkey reinstates sharia law, then it wouldn't be kicked from NATO. Rather, NATO (or at least, its European parts) would be "advised", by European authorities, to "diversify" and include basic knowledge of sharia law as a part of European NATO soldier training.

I mean, at the rate we're currently going (with refugee crisis getting exponentially bigger every, fucking, year), most of the young people in Europe (and young people are manning the army) are going to have some knowledge of sharia law, already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:07:52 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 05:51:01 am

knowledge of sharia law

I think everyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the past few years knows about sharia law and how it's basically barbarism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 06:20:41 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:07:52 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 05:51:01 am

knowledge of sharia law

I think everyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the past few years knows about sharia law and how it's basically barbarism

But that's racist! After all, whole 25% of Britain's Muslim population support instating sharia law, so clearly that point of view has enough merit to warrant a debate of whenever we should do it, yes? We could ever go as far as to allow local neighbourhoods with more than 50% of sharia-law-supporters to enforce said sharia law, because it's only natural to allow for higher degree of diversity and multiculturalism in our progressive European society.

We should also tolerate them using their Arabic language, both in written, and in speaking, forms, and should advise more of our conservative natives to learn said Arabic language, to further integrate the refugees into our European society and heighten the degree of diversification. And if Arabic language starts to gradually displace our own in our cities - well, it was clearly because obviously Arabic language is a simply better language than, say, a French one. Better Arabic culture produces a better Arabic language, and it's only natural that a better language should be allowed to express its betterness as much as possible, amirite?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 06:27:12 am

I guess it's better than learning Russian. At least Putin won't invade to protect arab speaking minorities

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 06:32:21 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg6xpmcWMAAhFbB.jpg)
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Germans know if Russia tried starting shit, they would be defended to the last Polish

Quote from: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 06:27:12 am

I guess it's better than learning Russian. At least Putin won't invade to protect arab speaking minorities

Yeah but there's nothing I'd find more aggravating than gaining independence from pan-yuros only to have to do the same for pan-caliphates

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:39:17 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 06:20:41 am

But that's racist!

You're actually indistinguishable from an extreme liberal, and this makes me sad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Jopax on April 26, 2016, 07:47:00 am

Something something satire indistinguishable from reality something something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 08:08:38 am

Nah, I've never met a liberal (no matter what sense you use it) that sounds even vaguely like that. Sergarr is more like a copy of Loud Whisper on his bad days. It's better to just ignore and move on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 08:30:03 am

In a speech to parliament, Dutch minister of foreign affairs Koenders issued a warning to all Dutch and Turkish-Dutch inhabitants that he cannot guarantuee the safety of anyone who has ever been critical about Erdogan on social media, if they were to travel to Turkey.

Basically, negative travel advice to Turkey. Will hurt their tourism. Turkey is a popular holiday destination over here.

He continued to state that Turkey can forget about ever joining the EU if the press freedom in their country does not improve.

When asked why our prime minister Rutte negotiates about the return to the Netherlands of Umar with Davotoglu instead of with Erdogan, the minister replied: " prime minister Davotoglu is the political equal to our prime minister, the Turkish president only has a ceremonial function"
- take that, Erdogan -

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/koenders-waarschuwt-erdogan-critici-voor-problemen~a4289868/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 26, 2016, 08:41:39 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:39:17 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 26, 2016, 06:20:41 am

But that's racist!

You're actually indistinguishable from an extreme liberal, and this makes me sad.

He actually sounded more like a ad libbed version of a white supremacist, to me, save with Arabic replacing English and Shariah replacing legal discrimination. Though I suppose they both involve legal discrimination, of different sorts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 26, 2016, 08:59:12 am

i found Erdogan's speech announcing the new constitution. :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKjuQrHp3A0
half joke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 09:04:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 26, 2016, 08:30:03 am

In a speech to parliament, Dutch minister of foreign affairs Koenders issued a warning to all Dutch and Turkish-Dutch inhabitants that he cannot guarantuee the safety of anyone who has ever been critical about Erdogan on social media, if they were to travel to Turkey.

Basically, negative travel advice to Turkey. Will hurt their tourism. Turkey is a popular holiday destination over here.

He continued to state that Turkey can forget about ever joining the EU if the press freedom in their country does not improve.

When asked why our prime minister Rutte negotiates about the return to the Netherlands of Umar with Davotoglu instead of with Erdogan, the minister replied: " prime minister Davotoglu is the political equal to our prime minister, the Turkish president only has a ceremonial function"
- take that, Erdogan -

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/koenders-waarschuwt-erdogan-critici-voor-problemen~a4289868/

And all this time I thought that Turkey's system was more similar to Russia, with the Prime Minister and the President having equal power or the president having more power than the PM. (interpret as maybe sarcasm if that was a joke insult on the part of the Dutch).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 09:26:22 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:39:17 am

You're actually indistinguishable from an extreme liberal, and this makes me sad.

>extreme

Quote from: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 08:08:38 am

Nah, I've never met a liberal (no matter what sense you use it) that sounds even vaguely like that. Sergarr is more like a copy of Loud Whisper on his bad days. It's better to just ignore and move on.

Because you are referring to tone and not content

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 10:19:40 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

-imagesnip-
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Yeah, many of my countrymen suck. I guess it's just old Cold War fear (and, of course, leftover trauma from the end days of WWII) that makes them hear 'Warsaw Pact' whenever someone says 'Russia'.

Interestingly the statistic 'If Germany was attacked by Russia, would you expect the Americans to come to our help?' looks very different.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 10:29:40 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 10:19:40 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

-imagesnip-
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Yeah, many of my countrymen suck. I guess it's just old Cold War fear (and, of course, leftover trauma from the end days of WWII) that makes them hear 'Warsaw Pact' whenever someone says 'Russia'.

Interestingly the statistic 'If Germany was attacked by Russia, would you expect the Americans to come to our help?' looks very different.

And we'd probably say 'What the hell you doing? Get your beer-laden asses in gear!' if you refused to fight. Because really, you'd look dumb as a NATO member.

*I don't know how offensive 'kraut' is these days as I realize it was used with anti-german connotations during WWI and WWII, but I mean it jokingly here.

edit: After googling it a bit, I decided to replace with something funnier.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2016, 10:40:44 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 10:19:40 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

-imagesnip-
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Yeah, many of my countrymen suck. I guess it's just old Cold War fear (and, of course, leftover trauma from the end days of WWII) that makes them hear 'Warsaw Pact' whenever someone says 'Russia'.

Interestingly the statistic 'If Germany was attacked by Russia, would you expect the Americans to come to our help?' looks very different.

Could you help me find it? I'm having trouble looking on my aged lhone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 10:45:05 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 10:29:40 am

And we'd probably say 'What the hell you doing? Get your beer-laden asses in gear!' if you refused to fight. Because really, you'd look dumb as a NATO member.
*I don't know how offensive 'kraut' is these days as I realize it was used with anti-german connotations during WWI and WWII, but I mean it jokingly here.
edit: After googling it a bit, I decided to replace with something funnier.

Hahahaha
We're now pulling that on kraut?
Goodness
At least it's better than saying ISIS has progressive potential and we need to flood Sweden with IS soldiers to drive out intolerance

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 10:48:07 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 10:40:44 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 10:19:40 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

-imagesnip-
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Yeah, many of my countrymen suck. I guess it's just old Cold War fear (and, of course, leftover trauma from the end days of WWII) that makes them hear 'Warsaw Pact' whenever someone says 'Russia'.

Interestingly the statistic 'If Germany was attacked by Russia, would you expect the Americans to come to our help?' looks very different.

Could you help me find it? I'm having trouble looking on my aged lhone.

I attempted to google the exact quote and only came up with this thread, seriously. Of course though, that's in english.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 10:45:05 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 10:29:40 am

And we'd probably say 'What the hell you doing? Get your beer-laden asses in gear!' if you refused to fight. Because really, you'd look dumb as a NATO member.
*I don't know how offensive 'kraut' is these days as I realize it was used with anti-german connotations during WWI and WWII, but I mean it jokingly here.
edit: After googling it a bit, I decided to replace with something funnier.

Hahahaha
We're now pulling that on kraut?
Goodness
At least it's better than saying ISIS has progressive potential and we need to flood Sweden with IS soldiers to drive out intolerance

Just trying to be a diplomatic American here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 10:53:53 am

The American ability to cause zero offence is of zero capabilities

I'm already triggered

*EDIT
I tried looking for your things, but I only found these:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/10/1-nato-public-opinion-wary-of-russia-leary-of-action-on-ukraine/

Quote

A majority of Poles (57%) say Moscow is behind the violence in Ukraine, as do four-in-ten or more French (44%), Americans (42%) and British (40%). But only roughly three-in-ten Germans and Italians (both 29%) agree. Older Americans (50%) and Brits (45%) are more likely than their younger compatriots (33% of both Americans and British) to blame Russia. And in all but Germany, those who blame Russia for the violence in eastern Ukraine are the most likely to see Russia as a military threat. Few say the responsibility lies with the Ukrainian government itself. And only in Germany (12%) does a double-digit minority believe that the actions of Western governments in Europe and the U.S. are accountable for the hostilities.

The fuck
They blame us? O_O

Quote

Given their contentious history with Russia and their proximity to the fighting in Ukraine, it is not surprising that 74% of Poles hold a favorable opinion of NATO and the security reassurance membership in it provides. Polish support for the alliance is up 10 percentage points from 2013. Six-in-ten or more French (64%), Italians (64%) and British (60%) also hold a favorable view of NATO. However, roughly a third of the French (34%) and about a quarter of Italians (26%) express an unfavorable attitude toward NATO.

The greatest change in support for NATO has been in Germany, where favorability of the alliance has fallen 18 points since 2009, from 73% to 55%. Germans living in the east are divided – 46% see it positively, 43% negatively.

There is also relatively little interest in decreasing sanctions, except in Germany (29%). Most publics – including 53% of both Americans and British – want to keep the penalties about where they are now.

And the bit I think you were referring to smjjames:

Quote

More than half of Americans (56%) and Canadians (53%) are willing to respond to Russian military aggression against a fellow NATO country. A plurality of the British (49%) and Poles (48%) would also live up to their Article 5 commitment. And the Spanish are divided on the issue: 48% support it, 47% oppose.
While some in NATO are reluctant to help aid others attacked by Russia, a median of 68% of the NATO member countries surveyed believe that the U.S. would use military force to defend an ally. The Canadians (72%), Spanish (70%), Germans (68%) and Italians (68%) are the most confident that the U.S. would send military aid. In many countries, young Europeans express the strongest faith in the U.S. to help defend allied countries. The Poles, citizens of the most front-line nation in the survey, have their doubts: 49% think Washington would fulfill its Article 5 obligation, 31% don’t think it would and 20% aren’t sure.

They know everyone else's people would die to defend them so they don't have to

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/05/07/germany-and-the-united-states-reliable-allies/
This one is also rather neat
I find it funny that 55% of Germans trust Britain as a reliable ally, but only 8% of Germans trust London
Wise move

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 11:07:55 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 09:26:22 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 26, 2016, 06:39:17 am

You're actually indistinguishable from an extreme liberal, and this makes me sad.

>extreme

Quote from: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 08:08:38 am

Nah, I've never met a liberal (no matter what sense you use it) that sounds even vaguely like that. Sergarr is more like a copy of Loud Whisper on his bad days. It's better to just ignore and move on.

Because you are referring to tone and not content

The content also doesn't sound like any liberal ever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 11:11:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 11:07:55 am

The content also doesn't sound like any liberal ever.

Sweden's Green Party 'infiltrated by Islamists'
One party member refused to shake hands with a female journalist, and another compared Israel to Nazi Germany.  (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/sweden-green-party-infiltrated-islamists-160426130534157.html)
3 hours ago
I stopped keeping track of these after the ISIS has progressive potential people because it got boring to me, though my sides did enter orbit when the Swedish Islamaphobia expert joined ISIS
Europe earned its future

*EDIT
The article speaks for itself but

Quote

"I think the Green Party needs to work on their inclusive values," he said. "How do you combine diversity and religion with an ethnocentric and prejudiced idea of gender equality?"

Ahahahahaha
Why didn't you get  T O L E R A N ?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 11:19:02 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 11:11:02 am

though my sides did enter orbit when the Swedish Islamaphobia expert joined ISIS

Seriously? That's just messed up (the Swedish Islamaphobia expert joining ISIS).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 11:26:28 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 11:19:02 am

Seriously? That's just messed up (the Swedish Islamaphobia expert joining ISIS).

Nah it's hilarious

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/kU0g6O0.jpg)

Le smug bork jihad

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 07:14:07 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 10:40:44 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 26, 2016, 10:19:40 am

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

-imagesnip-
Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Yeah, many of my countrymen suck. I guess it's just old Cold War fear (and, of course, leftover trauma from the end days of WWII) that makes them hear 'Warsaw Pact' whenever someone says 'Russia'.

Interestingly the statistic 'If Germany was attacked by Russia, would you expect the Americans to come to our help?' looks very different.

Could you help me find it? I'm having trouble looking on my aged lhone.

Quote

Zugleich gehen 68 Prozent der Deutschen davon aus, dass die USA im Fall eines Angriffs von Russland den Nato-Partnern beistehen würde.

Quote

At the same time 68% of Germans suppose that the US would defend the NATO partners in the case of a Russian attack.

Source. (http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-06/nato-ukraine-russland-umfrage-pew-stimmung-deutschland) I must say I misremembered - it was about a Russian attack on NATO in general, not about an attack on Germany specifically. Makes it even worse, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 27, 2016, 01:52:46 am

He, they said they think the US would stand by their allies, not that the US should.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 27, 2016, 02:14:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 27, 2016, 01:52:46 am

He, they said they think the US would stand by their allies, not that the US should.

In the words of Winston Churchill, you can always trust the Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 27, 2016, 02:46:53 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 27, 2016, 02:14:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 27, 2016, 01:52:46 am

He, they said they think the US would stand by their allies, not that the US should.

In the words of Winston Churchill, you can always trust the Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else.

Do you mean they will nuke Moscow someday and I just need to wait a little longer?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 02:49:20 am

>implying that instantly killing millions of people in radioactive fireballs and then dooming some more millions to a slow and painful death from radiation sickness is a "right thing"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 27, 2016, 02:59:02 am

It is either good thing and will happen or falls into the everything else category and will happen.

PS.
What is the difference between Russian and Ukrainian jokes?

In Russian jokes Ukrainians are stupid and greedy cowards
In Ukrainian jokes Russians are dead

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 03:02:51 am

>jokes

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://images.memes.com/meme/628283)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 03:26:20 am

In mother Russia we joke bears

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 27, 2016, 03:37:26 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 02:49:20 am

>implying that instantly killing millions of people in radioactive fireballs and then dooming some more millions to a slow and painful death from radiation sickness is a "right thing"

I don't think Moscow's dense enough for millions to die in the fireball

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 04:12:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 26, 2016, 09:04:39 am

And all this time I thought that Turkey's system was more similar to Russia, with the Prime Minister and the President having equal power or the president having more power than the PM. (interpret as maybe sarcasm if that was a joke insult on the part of the Dutch).

That's the whole point of our minister's snide remark / insult.
Constitutionally, the function of Turkish president is a strictly ceremonial one. You know, cutting ribbons and giving new year's speeches and such. But ever since he couldn't become prime minister anymore (maximum term reached), and became president instead, Erdogan has been publicly striving to rewrite the constitution, to give the presidential function much more authority, and acting like the constitution has already been changed.
Our minister of foreign affairs is well aware of this, and that's why he kindly reminds Erdogan that his function is only ceremonial.

We don't need comedians to insult the Turkish president, our minister of foreign affairs is more than capable there.

In related news:
Turkish prime minister Davutoglu has said in a speech to his own AK party in parliament, that the new constitution will be secular.
The chairman of parliament, also AK party, who said yesterday that the new constitution should be islamic, has also toned down a bit, saying that "it was just my personal vision, and freedom of religion is still very important to me".

The current Turkish constitution is neutral about religion. This is to be credited to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who turned Turkey into a republic, and scrapped sharia from the constitution in 1923. Since then, there's been a strict division of faith and state.

But ever since Erdogan's AK party came into power, Turkey is slowly becoming less secular again. For example, the ban on wearing head scarfs in public functions has been revoked, and it becoming harder and harder to buy alcohol.

The AK party has been expressing the desire to alter the constitution, which has been instated by the military regime that came to power through a coup d'état in 1980, for a while now. Erdogan wants to shift more power and competencies to the president's office.
The AK party has 317 out of 550 seats in parliament, but needs 330 votes to be allowed to hold a referendum about changing the constitution. For that'd theyd need to secure 13 votes from the opposition, which yet seems unlikely to happen.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/turkse-premier-nieuwe-grondwet-zal-seculier-zijn~a4290452/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/turkse-premier-nieuwe-grondwet-zal-seculier-zijn~a4290452/)

linguistical question for anyone here speaking Turkish: does the word ending -oglu mean 'son of', just like we have -son -sen, and slavic languages have -vic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 08:10:28 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 27, 2016, 03:37:26 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 02:49:20 am

>implying that instantly killing millions of people in radioactive fireballs and then dooming some more millions to a slow and painful death from radiation sickness is a "right thing"

I don't think Moscow's dense enough for millions to die in the fireball

>implying that Moscow will be hit with only one nuke
>implying that I haven't thought about it and haven't specifically put "fireballs" as in multiple of singular fireball
>implying implications

Okay, okay, I'm going to stop 4channing now. Maybe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 08:40:04 am

Sergarr, you're aware that even implying that Holy Moscow could be hit by a nuke might be grounds for getting a polonium enema, right? I mean, your president is not known for sarcasm awareness...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 09:22:48 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 08:40:04 am

Sergarr, you're aware that even implying that Holy Moscow could be hit by a nuke might be grounds for getting a polonium enema, right? I mean, your president is not known for sarcasm awareness...

I could say that Putin is a baldy dwarf who farts in my general direction, and no one will do anything to me at all. I mean, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 09:24:56 am

http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/24/plans-were-drawn-up-for-a-european-superstate-5838541/

Fug dave u r best pm :DDDDDDDDD

Quote

Plans for a United States of Europe have been drawn up by leading EU politicians, undermining David Cameron’s claims that Britain will not be sucked into a European superstate.
A document signed last September in Rome by the speakers of the national parliaments in Germany, France, Italy and Luxembourg calls for the creation of a full blown “federal union of states”.
The paper says that “concrete proposals” to deepen EU integration will be drawn up at a meeting in Luxembourg next month, raising the prospect of a new row about powers leaching to Brussels ahead of the referendum on June

Welcome to the future current year +6

Quote from: Sergarr on April 27, 2016, 09:22:48 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 08:40:04 am

Sergarr, you're aware that even implying that Holy Moscow could be hit by a nuke might be grounds for getting a polonium enema, right? I mean, your president is not known for sarcasm awareness...

I could say that Putin is a baldy dwarf who farts in my general direction, and no one will do anything to me at all. I mean, really.

Your post has been notified.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 27, 2016, 10:48:00 am

Oh, gosh, national politicians from some member states met to discuss what they think they think the EU should look like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 11:54:14 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 27, 2016, 10:48:00 am

Oh, gosh, national politicians from some member states met to discuss what they think they think the EU should look like.

Nothing to see here, move along


In other news, BEHOLD PONCEGATE (http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/david-cameron-tried-to-call-nigel-farage-poncey-and-it-backfired--bkWjC42shWb)

Top lel at a ponce calling kettle chips poncey for having a Froggy sounding name
>Cameron
>Calling other people foreign ponces

I think Cameron's beginning to crack

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 12:33:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 09:24:56 am

Quote

United States of Europe/quote]

This name. Why pick this name, yurop? You got a decent name already in the European Union.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 27, 2016, 03:03:50 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 27, 2016, 02:59:02 am

It is either good thing and will happen or falls into the everything else category and will happen.

PS.
What is the difference between Russian and Ukrainian jokes?

In Russian jokes Ukrainians are stupid and greedy cowards
In Ukrainian jokes Russians are dead

I live in Russia, and I am not hearing any jokes about stupid ukrainians.
Jokes like : silent is ukrainian night, but we still need to hide the bacon "
are not worse then jokes about comrades filling reactors of satellites with vodka.
May be you are dealing with some exceptional russians?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 27, 2016, 03:39:00 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 26, 2016, 05:48:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 26, 2016, 02:18:54 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg6xpmcWMAAhFbB.jpg)

Isn't it cute? I can understand ignoring Baltic states but Poland? Half of Germans want a common border with Russia?

Ah, that feeling of inter-European solidarity. It warms the soul.

Lavrov-Steinmeier pact, eh.
Don't worry though, we always knew that in the end we will be betrayed by everyone. Again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 04:06:57 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 03:39:00 pm

Lavrov-Steinmeier pact, eh.
Don't worry though, we always knew that in the end we will be betrayed by everyone. Again.

Poland says it will host 1,000 British troops from 2017 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-poland-military-idUKKCN0UZ31A)

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

THE UK IS POLAND TOO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 27, 2016, 04:17:29 pm

TBH, we heard very similar things back in 30s.
Also, considering that POLAND IS UK a lot, I wouldn't be suprised if it was actually POLAND IS POLAND TOO.
EDIT:

Spoiler: TRUST NOONE (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/CtJVd8i.jpg)(http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aE7wBqx_700b.jpg)(http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/anNOno0_700b.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 04:45:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 04:06:57 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 03:39:00 pm

Lavrov-Steinmeier pact, eh.
Don't worry though, we always knew that in the end we will be betrayed by everyone. Again.

Poland says it will host 1,000 British troops from 2017 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-poland-military-idUKKCN0UZ31A)

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

THE UK IS POLAND TOO

The UK is sending troops to Poland... from the Future?!?!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 04:50:05 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 04:45:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 04:06:57 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 03:39:00 pm

Lavrov-Steinmeier pact, eh.
Don't worry though, we always knew that in the end we will be betrayed by everyone. Again.

Poland says it will host 1,000 British troops from 2017 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-poland-military-idUKKCN0UZ31A)

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

THE UK IS POLAND TOO

The UK is sending troops to Poland... from the Future?!?!?

More like a not very well worded title.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 27, 2016, 04:53:28 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 04:17:29 pm

TBH, we heard very similar things back in 30s.
Also, considering that POLAND IS UK a lot, I wouldn't be suprised if it was actually POLAND IS POLAND TOO.
EDIT:

Spoiler: TRUST NOONE (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/CtJVd8i.jpg)(http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aE7wBqx_700b.jpg)(http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/anNOno0_700b.jpg)

well you don't have to look like a grizzled old man to be a competent military leader. mandatory pink scarves and sequin vests for all future leaders! you can look fabulous and kick butt at the same time!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 27, 2016, 05:01:16 pm

Ministry of defence is not the one who leads soldiers

Minister of defence is the one who keep soldiers well fed, well supplied and well armed by modern weapons. I prefer a manager to a general on this position.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 05:55:24 pm

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 04:17:29 pm

TBH, we heard very similar things back in 30s.
Also, considering that POLAND IS UK a lot, I wouldn't be suprised if it was actually POLAND IS POLAND TOO.

Yeah but that's before Poles turned the UK into more Poland, our fates our now inseparable

cultural enrichment comes for you

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 04:45:14 pm

The UK is sending troops to Poland... from the Future?!?!?

Next-gen soldiers couldn't come sooner so we called reinforcements from the future

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 27, 2016, 05:01:16 pm

Ministry of defence is not the one who leads soldiers
Minister of defence is the one who keep soldiers well fed, well supplied and well armed by modern weapons. I prefer a manager to a general on this position.

The minister of defence is the one who coordinates all three branches of the military into one cohesive strategy.
The ultimate management of logistics goes to the Chief of Defence Materiel, though some have separate Chiefs of Defence Procurement and Chiefs of Defence Logistics positions that divide the tasks between them.
The one who keeps soldiers well-fed, well-supplied and well-armed will ultimately be your equivalent to the Chief of Procurement/Logistics (or your Chief of Defence Materiel), and those in charge of delivering the acquired materiel will be the Logistics Officers. The Logistics Officers should be superb administrators and managers whilst your Ministers of Defence should be superb generals, getting the two the wrong way around grievously wastes their talents and results in a sup-bar military who fails at logistics and fails at strategy. It is the tremendous waste that has meant that if Sweden were to face an actual military threat they could not actually defend themselves anymore. It pained me to hear Sweden's Supreme Commander Sverker Göransson say Sweden couldn't defend itself in one place for more than a week, but the only saying older than Germany being defended to the last Polish, is Sweden being defended to the last Finn.

 Various defence think tanks and political analysts had already released "detailed scenarios" outlining what might happen if Sweden is attacked and suggested that Sweden's army could only defend itself for a matter of days or weeks. (http://www.thelocal.se/20150506/swedens-current-military-state-is-alarming)
The difference between Ministers of Defence between countries whose Defence is outsourced or not is stark.

Also for propaganda reasons it's good to have defence ministers with the dead-eye look

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/kwL5V8r.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VNPofh7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FMokf8J.jpg)

They're not putting up with any shit
They make you die if you try
Poland seems to have won on the "can't put up with your shit" contest

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:13:30 pm

You think those guys are scary? Old grumpy men trying to stare you down is something you pretty much expect when dealing with a Minister of Defence. Von der Leyen, on the other hand... She's a mother of six, and somehow managed to stay on the job full-time whenever she was not actively pushing a kid through her vagina. She not only knows how to deal with politics, she knows how to deal with a horde of unruly kids. And she's survived many years of serving in high-profile positions under Merkel without being a wheelchair-bound cripple with no ambitions of becoming Chancellor.

She's ice cold and vicious, is what I'm saying. If any of the guys you listed go into a dark room with her, they won't come back - and you won't even see the tiniest speck of blood on her perfectly proper attire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 06:19:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Ah, but a woman Chancellor/Prime Minister/President (depending on your governance style) would be even more powerful of a symbol in that regard, no?

Though opinions would certainly span the spectrum of 'the leader of those that killed me' to 'whoever is weilding the weapon that killed me'

editwhiletyping: You know, that is a brilliant argument for getting Hillary elected....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:21:54 pm

Quick, someone photoshop VdL laying waste to the Middle East with a fiery sword, with Merkel just contently looking on, her hands folded into her signature rhombus...

Actually, just gimme the VdL/Merkel combo as Vader/Palpatine, and I'll die a happy man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 06:25:30 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:21:54 pm

Quick, someone photoshop VdL laying waste to the Middle East with a fiery sword, with Merkel just contently looking on, her hands folded into her signature rhombus...

Actually, just gimme the VdL/Merkel combo as Vader/Palpatine, and I'll die a happy man.

Bonus points if you put Hillary in there.

*crickets chirp*

What? we're just having a little fun here.

edit: Though I don't know where Hillary would fit in some Vader/Palpatine combo with Merkel and VdL.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:25:42 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 06:19:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Ah, but a woman Chancellor/Prime Minister/President (depending on your governance style) would be even more powerful of a symbol in that regard, no?

Depends on your political system. Over here, our prime minister is the chairman of the cabinet of ministers, but not higher in command than other ministers. The army answers to the minister of defense. And she, like any minister, answers to parliament.

You could compare our relation government / parliament to a business. The government are managers, responsible for day to day business and the parliament is the board of directors, which tells the managers within which parameters they can operate, and what their targets are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 06:28:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:25:42 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 27, 2016, 06:19:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Ah, but a woman Chancellor/Prime Minister/President (depending on your governance style) would be even more powerful of a symbol in that regard, no?

Depends on your political system. Over here, our prime minister is the chairman of the cabinet of ministers, but not higher in command than other ministers. The army answers to the minister of defense. And she, like any minister, answers to parliament.

I'm talking about head of state like the President is here in the US, and no, I'm not referring to your royalty.

I thought my usage of president up there would have been a good clue, but guess not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 07:32:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 05:55:24 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 04:45:14 pm

The UK is sending troops to Poland... from the Future?!?!?

Next-gen soldiers couldn't come sooner so we called reinforcements from the future

But what will happen in 2017 if the army is stationed in current day Poland? I've read posts from people in December 2016 complaining about the UK goverment compromising their future safety for the sake of the past

Let me demonstrate. Let's say that this line represents time.

------A----------------------------B--------------------------------C-----------------
                                                                                         D:  ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭

 A is the present 2016, B the future 2016, and C  is 2017. Obviously, somewhere in the future the timeline skewes down into D, creating an alternate 2017 where Vladimir Putin invades the UK to liberate Russian citizens over there. Alternate to you, me, and the time travelling British soldiers, but reality for everyone else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 27, 2016, 09:59:34 pm

Don't ever let Americans learn about this. They are totally going to pump oil out of spread FREEDOM to other timelines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 27, 2016, 10:37:34 pm

Too inefficient. We'll just pump the CO₂ and other industrial pollutants offset some of our externalities into the other timelines, if anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on April 27, 2016, 10:58:35 pm

Pump the Co₂ in, pump the oil out.
It would certainly make for suprising news if all oil wells around the Earth suddenly ceased to work because all the oil turned into Co₂.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smirk on April 27, 2016, 11:16:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:21:54 pm

Actually, just gimme the VdL/Merkel combo as Vader/Palpatine, and I'll die a happy man.

Spoiler: "In time, you will learn to call me 'Mutti'" (click to show/hide)

(https://i.img.ie/sgZ.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 05:30:53 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:13:30 pm

You think those guys are scary? Old grumpy men trying to stare you down is something you pretty much expect when dealing with a Minister of Defence.

It's not about being scary, otherwise you would pick someone scary; picking someone who if you tried to stare down you would see no soul inside is good for propaganda reasons because it sends the message that they are not unwilling to use military force if they have to. This is why dead-eyed grumpy old men is what you expect

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:13:30 pm

Von der Leyen, on the other hand... She's a mother of six, and somehow managed to stay on the job full-time whenever she was not actively pushing a kid through her vagina. She not only knows how to deal with politics, she knows how to deal with a horde of unruly kids. And she's survived many years of serving in high-profile positions under Merkel without being a wheelchair-bound cripple with no ambitions of becoming Chancellor.

Reading up on Von Der Leyen, her line of strategic assessment is entirely in line with mine on everything but Hungary! Surprises everywhere! Germany may have an army yet, though I imagine you'll have to call it your not-army or euro-taskforce or something. I'm sure Murrica wouldn't give a shit since they're helping Japan remilitiarize

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:13:30 pm

She's ice cold and vicious, is what I'm saying. If any of the guys you listed go into a dark room with her, they won't come back - and you won't even see the tiniest speck of blood on her perfectly proper attire.

Doesn't matter whether you are ice cold or vicious or whatever, most defence ministers I assume are actually rather friendly people just as most soldiers are quite friendly - looking the part is for propaganda reasons, not practical. Obviously if you found a teletubby who could do the job you wouldn't turn them down just because :P

Spoiler: Capability + dead eye stare (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/RVehudt.jpg)

Though she's not our Defence Secretary, she's spooky spymaster

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 07:41:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 05:30:53 am

It's not about being scary, otherwise you would pick someone scary; picking someone who if you tried to stare down you would see no soul inside is good for propaganda reasons because it sends the message that they are not unwilling to use military force if they have to. This is why dead-eyed grumpy old men is what you expect

There is literally no redeeming quality to NZ's military (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Brownlee)

Seriously look at this guy. (https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=gerry+brownlee&espv=2&biw=1341&bih=748&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5hNy8rbHMAhUEiKYKHdneBkEQ_AUIBigB) There does not exist a single flattering image of him on the whole Internet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on April 28, 2016, 08:14:47 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 05:30:53 am

It's not about being scary, otherwise you would pick someone scary; picking someone who if you tried to stare down you would see no soul inside is good for propaganda reasons because it sends the message that they are not unwilling to use military force if they have to. This is why dead-eyed grumpy old men is what you expect

Donald Trump SoD when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2016, 08:28:31 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 07:41:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 05:30:53 am

It's not about being scary, otherwise you would pick someone scary; picking someone who if you tried to stare down you would see no soul inside is good for propaganda reasons because it sends the message that they are not unwilling to use military force if they have to. This is why dead-eyed grumpy old men is what you expect

There is literally no redeeming quality to NZ's military (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Brownlee)

Seriously look at this guy. (https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=gerry+brownlee&espv=2&biw=1341&bih=748&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5hNy8rbHMAhUEiKYKHdneBkEQ_AUIBigB) There does not exist a single flattering image of him on the whole Internet.

The guy seems to have a neck with variable fatness. I didn't can't order them by date though, so, I don't know whether he had a liposuction at some point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 08:39:14 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 26, 2016, 11:11:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 26, 2016, 11:07:55 am

The content also doesn't sound like any liberal ever.

Sweden's Green Party 'infiltrated by Islamists'
One party member refused to shake hands with a female journalist, and another compared Israel to Nazi Germany.  (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/sweden-green-party-infiltrated-islamists-160426130534157.html)
3 hours ago
I stopped keeping track of these after the ISIS has progressive potential people because it got boring to me, though my sides did enter orbit when the Swedish Islamaphobia expert joined ISIS
Europe earned its future

*EDIT
The article speaks for itself but

Quote

"I think the Green Party needs to work on their inclusive values," he said. "How do you combine diversity and religion with an ethnocentric and prejudiced idea of gender equality?"

Ahahahahaha
Why didn't you get  T O L E R A N ?

Liberalism is defined by content, not by allegiance. Which makes the Swedish Green party not liberal.

Supporting sharia law is absolutely and definitely incompatible with liberalism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 10:23:22 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 08:39:14 am

Liberalism is defined by content, not by allegiance. Which makes the Swedish Green party not liberal.
Supporting sharia law is absolutely and definitely incompatible with liberalism.

Hahaha, it's not like our conservatives are conserving, what makes you think it's anything different with liberals? It's just the state of affairs of things, and I think you're being very ethnocentric with your cultural liberalism that you see your liberalism superior to foreign cultural norms, that's not very liberal m8, and sharia law is progressive for its time

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 07:41:46 am

There is literally no redeeming quality to NZ's military (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Brownlee)
Seriously look at this guy. (https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=gerry+brownlee&espv=2&biw=1341&bih=748&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5hNy8rbHMAhUEiKYKHdneBkEQ_AUIBigB) There does not exist a single flattering image of him on the whole Internet.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/kNj3Iug.png)

Quote from: Sheb on April 28, 2016, 08:14:47 am

Donald Trump SoD when?

He'd need a beard toupee first

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 28, 2016, 10:28:32 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 10:23:22 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 08:39:14 am

Liberalism is defined by content, not by allegiance. Which makes the Swedish Green party not liberal.
Supporting sharia law is absolutely and definitely incompatible with liberalism.

Hahaha, it's not like our conservatives are conserving, what makes you think it's anything different with liberals? It's just the state of affairs of things, and I think you're being very ethnocentric with your cultural liberalism that you see your liberalism superior to foreign cultural norms, that's not very liberal m8, and sharia law is progressive for its time

If its time is not now, then it's not really liberal :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 10:36:22 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2016, 07:32:48 pm

But what will happen in 2017 if the army is stationed in current day Poland? I've read posts from people in December 2016 complaining about the UK goverment compromising their future safety for the sake of the past
Let me demonstrate. Let's say that this line represents time.
------A----------------------------B--------------------------------C-----------------
                                                                                         D:  ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
 A is the present 2016, B the future 2016, and C  is 2017. Obviously, somewhere in the future the timeline skewes down into D, creating an alternate 2017 where Vladimir Putin invades the UK to liberate Russian citizens over there. Alternate to you, me, and the time travelling British soldiers, but reality for everyone else.

That could be an issue, but as long as we maintain cross-dimensional time projection capabilities I'm sure alternate dimension Polands will be able to count on even more reinforcements from their future to arrive back in time. I'm more worried about time traveling terrorists pre-melting steel beams tbh

Quote from: hector13 on April 28, 2016, 10:28:32 am

If its time is not now, then it's not really liberal :P

supa liberal like u don't even no fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 10:23:22 am

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 08:39:14 am

Liberalism is defined by content, not by allegiance. Which makes the Swedish Green party not liberal.
Supporting sharia law is absolutely and definitely incompatible with liberalism.

Hahaha, it's not like our conservatives are conserving, what makes you think it's anything different with liberals? It's just the state of affairs of things, and I think you're being very ethnocentric with your cultural liberalism that you see your liberalism superior to foreign cultural norms, that's not very liberal m8, and sharia law is progressive for its time

Yeah, sure. Because saying that people are allowed to be in favor of sharia law is the same as being in favor of sharia law. And also the same as being in favor people enacting sharia law because they are in favor of it even tough it isn't law.

Quote from: hector13 on April 28, 2016, 10:28:32 am

If its time is not now, then it's not really liberal :P

Nope, if it's restricting liberties it's not really liberal. You know. Sharia law is all about restricting liberties. Kind of like all of them liberties. That's why it's not liberal.

Of course the label "liberal" is often misapplied only because some policies of certain groups are liberal, but you know, who cares about nuance and stuff?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2016, 01:28:48 pm

Sorry to interject US politics in here, but hey, it's an election year and a major one:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/28/donald-trump-president-world-leaders-foreign-relations

"“People from the centre will stop him. Normal Republicans would rather vote for Hillary. Surely it won’t happen,” the senior official said, and his colleagues nodded."

(at nobody in particular, or at Bay12) I'm sorry to break it to you, but centrist republicans are an endangered species and there's hardly a center anymore. Plus, don't count on the republicans going for Hillary, even some centrists will absolutely not vote for her. November is probably going to be even more confusing and mind screwing for people outside the US than it is for us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 02:01:11 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Yeah, sure. Because saying that people are allowed to be in favor of sharia law is the same as being in favor of sharia law. And also the same as being in favor people enacting sharia law because they are in favor of it even tough it isn't law.

Who are you to tell people whether they can believe in sharia law or not? That's pretty islamaphobic imho tbh

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Nope, if it's restricting liberties it's not really liberal. You know. Sharia law is all about restricting liberties. Kind of like all of them liberties. That's why it's not liberal.

#notallsharia

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Of course the label "liberal" is often misapplied only because some policies of certain groups are liberal, but you know, who cares about nuance and stuff?

Sounds like you're just jelly that liberalism is progressing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Shadowlord on April 28, 2016, 02:22:35 pm

*clicks last page of thread*

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 09:59:34 pm

Don't ever let Americans learn about this. They are totally going to pump oil out of spread FREEDOM to other timelines.

TOO LATE. *goes back to previous page*

Edit:
India's Europe, right? I mean, it's in CK2.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Laser-walls-activated-along-India-Pakistan-border-to-plug-gaps-in-vigil/articleshow/52012679.cms

Man-portable laser-wall doorways when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2016, 02:47:40 pm

Quote from: Shadowlord on April 28, 2016, 02:22:35 pm

*clicks last page of thread*

Quote from: Kot on April 27, 2016, 09:59:34 pm

Don't ever let Americans learn about this. They are totally going to pump oil out of spread FREEDOM to other timelines.

TOO LATE. *goes back to previous page*

Edit:
India's Europe, right? I mean, it's in CK2.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Laser-walls-activated-along-India-Pakistan-border-to-plug-gaps-in-vigil/articleshow/52012679.cms

Man-portable laser-wall doorways when?

I wonder how many false alarms they'll get just by animals passing through what looks like an open pathway. Though maybe they'll have night vision cameras to make sure.

It sounds like they're working from the article, but the question remains, how many of the 'illegal crossing detection' hits are animals rather than people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 02:01:11 pm

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Yeah, sure. Because saying that people are allowed to be in favor of sharia law is the same as being in favor of sharia law. And also the same as being in favor people enacting sharia law because they are in favor of it even tough it isn't law.

Who are you to tell people whether they can believe in sharia law or not? That's pretty islamaphobic imho tbh

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Nope, if it's restricting liberties it's not really liberal. You know. Sharia law is all about restricting liberties. Kind of like all of them liberties. That's why it's not liberal.

#notallsharia

Quote from: Antsan on April 28, 2016, 11:01:16 am

Of course the label "liberal" is often misapplied only because some policies of certain groups are liberal, but you know, who cares about nuance and stuff?

Sounds like you're just jelly that liberalism is progressing

Your memes are choking out your convincingness, LW :P

Thought police is bad, no matter the form. It's actions that matter, and if we want to be democratic, we lights let people vote for what they want. If we don't, that could be alright too, just be aware that's what you're doing and that the right dictators are in charge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Your memes are choking out your convincingness, LW :P

I'd be rather worried if I convinced people to adopt sharia law ironically

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Thought police is bad, no matter the form. It's actions that matter, and if we want to be democratic, we lights let people vote for what they want. If we don't, that could be alright too, just be aware that's what you're doing and that the right dictators are in charge.

Who picks the right dictators

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on April 28, 2016, 04:02:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Thought police is bad, no matter the form. It's actions that matter, and if we want to be democratic, we lights let people vote for what they want. If we don't, that could be alright too, just be aware that's what you're doing and that the right dictators are in charge.

Who picks the right dictators

Is that octopus from the world cup several years ago still alive?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:03:37 pm

Paul is dead :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 28, 2016, 04:07:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:03:37 pm

Paul is dead :(

RIP Paul. Never 4get.

We need another psychic mollusk.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2016, 04:15:24 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 28, 2016, 04:07:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:03:37 pm

Paul is dead :(

RIP Paul. Never 4get.

We need another psychic mollusk.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/LittleNeck_clams_USDA96c1862.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 28, 2016, 04:16:16 pm

Are they psychic thou- I mean, all hail our new mollusk overlords.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on April 28, 2016, 04:16:44 pm

In that case our dictators shall be selected by kittens. We simply release a box of kittens into a room containing the candidates, who are bound to the floor. The one with the largest number of kittens on or by them after 3 hours is the new supreme leader.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:21:19 pm

I want to get toxic plasmosis out of politics, not into it. I'd rather have psychic octopus and squid decide who our leaders are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on April 28, 2016, 04:22:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:21:19 pm

I want to get toxic plasmosis out of politics, not into it. I'd rather have psychic octopus and squid decide who our leaders are.

Would cuttlefish be acceptable?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:29:08 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on April 28, 2016, 04:22:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:21:19 pm

I want to get toxic plasmosis out of politics, not into it. I'd rather have psychic octopus and squid decide who our leaders are.

Would cuttlefish be acceptable?

Some people are allergic to cuttlefish and cannot develop tolerance to them, that would be unwise, especially with psychic cuttlefish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 04:37:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Your memes are choking out your convincingness, LW :P

I'd be rather worried if I convinced people to adopt sharia law ironically

Yeah but you've gone so far into satire that you're going back around into being completely unconvincing for your actual point. You're starting to build strawmen by pretending to be a 'liberal' in response to someone pointing out that it isn't a liberal policy, it's a left-wing policy.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

Thought police is bad, no matter the form. It's actions that matter, and if we want to be democratic, we lights let people vote for what they want. If we don't, that could be alright too, just be aware that's what you're doing and that the right dictators are in charge.

Who picks the right dictators

So you get my point then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 04:47:09 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 04:37:02 pm

Yeah but you've gone so far into satire that you're going back around into being completely unconvincing for your actual point. You're starting to build strawmen by pretending to be a 'liberal' in response to someone pointing out that it isn't a liberal policy, it's a left-wing policy.

I already made my actual point, whatever follows is just banter

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2016, 05:56:38 pm

there is literally nothing wrong with multiculturalism

lel

Quote from: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2016, 04:37:02 pm

So you get my point then.

That dictators are managers for the real dictators

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 05:01:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Who picks the right dictators

The previous dictator. It worked for the Nervan dynasty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Erkki on April 29, 2016, 01:04:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2016, 05:55:24 pm

The minister of defence is the one who coordinates all three branches of the military into one cohesive strategy.

Quoting several pages back, but I'll answer this: no it isnt. Minister of defence is typically not a military leader. He/she may be able to give the military some tasks, but is typically not part of the chain of command.

Militaries are led by whoever leads them, answering to the head of the state and/or minister of defence and/or minister of foreign affairs depending on the nation or country. Minister of defence "just" runs the ministry and is typically basically highest level the peacetime manager that has a lot to say about where the money goes over the actual military leaders.

Practices do vary but for example around here, military personnel and the high command themselves are apolitical and the military at most only gives recommendations, when asked, while the ministry and the minister of defence(a member of the parliament that has been voted to his/her position, unlike military leaders) are the ones that make the decisions for the military to execute. During peace, that. Generals and other high rankers only become political lobbyists for their branches or, less often, for their parties once they retire - though often the voices of these retired generals do reflect the thoughts and opinions from within their houses/factions.

We've also had female minister of defence in the 90s and the previous one before Niinistö, Carl Haglund, served in civilian service instead of armed service in the military. Great deal of people thought that alone made him an incompetent as a male leader.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2016, 07:18:20 am

Quote from: Erkki on April 29, 2016, 01:04:59 am

Quoting several pages back, but I'll answer this: no it isnt. Minister of defence is typically not a military leader. He/she may be able to give the military some tasks, but is typically not part of the chain of command.

The role of a defence minister varies considerably from country to country; in some the minister is only in charge of general budget matters and procurement of equipment; while in others the minister is also, in addition, an integral part of the operational military chain of command.
Usually countries with active militaries have them as integral parts of the operational military chain of command, coordinating all the Air Chief Marshals, Admirals and Generals - the Defence Secretary sets the goals and sends forth his officers to achieve them. Most of our defence secretaries in the UK have been civilians, and the Ministry of Defence itself is a hodge podge of civilians, advisors, scientists and military officials - it helps to keep things under control and in line with civilian policy, in turn keeping the military in coordination and line.

Quote from: Erkki on April 29, 2016, 01:04:59 am

Militaries are led by whoever leads them, answering to the head of the state and/or minister of defence and/or minister of foreign affairs depending on the nation or country. Minister of defence "just" runs the ministry and is typically basically highest level the peacetime manager that has a lot to say about where the money goes over the actual military leaders.

Such managerial duties falls to our Chief of Defence Materiel and the Logistics Officers. The role of Defence Minister as coordinator of all three branches goes back to the need for the Royal Navy, British Army and the fresh Royal Air Force to coordinate under one coherent leadership during WWII - hence Winston Churchill. It's been the basic standard Western framework that's been adopted most around the world because it is necessary, and defence policy cannot be conducted by independent generals in today's world operating outside of civilian governance and coherent strategy.

Quote from: Erkki on April 29, 2016, 01:04:59 am

We've also had female minister of defence in the 90s and the previous one before Niinistö, Carl Haglund, served in civilian service instead of armed service in the military. Great deal of people thought that alone made him an incompetent as a male leader.

You've got the same model, only your Defence Secretary/Minister is called the Chief of Defence and your Defence Secretary acts as Chief of Defence Materiel
Though you're a bit weird in that your Chief of Defence is an actual military commander, not a cabinet post

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on April 29, 2016, 02:34:57 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/29/politics/russians-barrel-roll-air-force-plane/index.html (this is actually the second time this month)

Did the Russian military watch too much of Top Gun or something? You guys seem to be getting rather brazen recently. I know it's the usual Cold War style sabre rattling, but let's be serious here, would the Soviets have pulled off something that brazen?

Also, I wonder how Trump would react to that kind of stuff? Just some rhetorical food for thought for you guys. Obviously Hillary would show the same restraint, though with maybe a stronger worded response.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2016, 03:09:09 pm

The Soviets couldn't and were also rather nervous because total annihilation of the human race and all

Quote

This is the second barrel roll maneuver over a U.S. aircraft by the Russians this month.

Banter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on April 29, 2016, 03:40:53 pm

Soviets never did stuff like that because they weren't lucky enough to get Obama-like president in USA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 29, 2016, 03:54:30 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 29, 2016, 02:34:57 pm

Did the Russian military watch too much of Top Gun or something?

yes

Quote from: smjjames on April 29, 2016, 02:34:57 pm

I know it's the usual Cold War style sabre rattling, but let's be serious here, would the Soviets have pulled off something that brazen?

no because teh soviets were PUSSIES unlike the 100% pure ultranationalist ultracitizenist rusmen

Quote from: smjjames on April 29, 2016, 02:34:57 pm

Also, I wonder how Trump would react to that kind of stuff?

he would strike a deal with russia

i mean what else he could do

it's not like anyone in the USA military would actually follow his orders to engage or anything

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 29, 2016, 07:43:10 pm

If Trump actually goes to war with Russia I'll be very upset.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 29, 2016, 07:54:38 pm

Quote from: smirk on April 27, 2016, 11:16:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on April 27, 2016, 06:21:54 pm

Actually, just gimme the VdL/Merkel combo as Vader/Palpatine, and I'll die a happy man.

Spoiler: "In time, you will learn to call me 'Mutti'" (click to show/hide)

(https://i.img.ie/sgZ.png)

Somebody shoot me, because this is the best my life will ever get. I applaud you, Sir.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2016, 08:58:09 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

"Women involvement in the fight against the Islamic State plays a significant role in upsetting ISIS militants' mental state because they fear being killed by a woman will result in them being sent to "hell", one 27-year-old female fighter named Tekoshin told AFP.

"I think [they] were more afraid of us than of the men," she said. "They believe they'll go to hell if they die at a woman's hands."

U.S. Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., in an interview with The New York Post in September also referenced that notion when he climed that Jihadists fear being killed by women because under jihadist law they would be denied the "paradise" they were promised in the afterlife, which also includes a God-given 72 virgins.

"These ISIL soldiers apparently believed that if they were killed in battle, they went to paradise as long as they were killed by a man," Royce said. "And these female soldiers were communicating their satisfaction with the fact that they had taken the fight to ISIL and had stopped the advance, turned back the advance — slayed a number of these fighters, who would then run away,"

One female peshmerga fighter, using the pseudonym Arin Mirkan, reportedly killed dozens of ISIS militants on Oct. 5 after blowing herself up in a suicide bombing outside of Kobane.

"I don't know her exact age but she was above 20. She was a fighter from the YPG," a Kurdish official told AFP. "She threw many grenades at ISIS insurgents. After that, she blew herself up, (http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-militants-fear-being-killed-by-woman-and-losing-72-virgins-for-martyrdom-kurdish-co-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/)""

"However, it seems that male fighters are unclear about whether dying at the hand of a woman comes with the expected reward.

Women have long been a feature of Kurdish peshmerga forces. Now many from threatened towns and villages are signing up to join all-women units to fend off Isil forces who are threatening to overrun their homeland.

"We are being trained to use snipers, Kalashnikovs, rocket propelled grenades and hand grenades," a woman from the minority Yazidi community told The Telegraph earlier this month in the Sinjar mountain range. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11110724/Isil-fanatics-fear-being-killed-by-a-woman-will-deprive-them-of-virgins-in-paradise.html)"

God bless the godless Soviets for having flooded the world with their weapons

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 29, 2016, 07:43:10 pm

If Trump actually goes to war with Russia I'll be very upset.

Donald Trump's foreign policy speech earns praise in Russia (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/donald-trump-russia-putin/)

Quote

Putin recently called Trump "a brighter person, talented without a doubt." Trump returned the compliment saying: "I like him because he called me a genius. He said Trump is the real leader."

~o.o~

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on April 29, 2016, 09:50:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2016, 08:58:09 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm

I always thought picking a woman for minister of defense was a brilliant move. Any IS fighter killed by our forces will be defeated by a woman. If I understand correctly, they believe they won't go to paradise if defeated by a woman.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

"Women involvement in the fight against the Islamic State plays a significant role in upsetting ISIS militants' mental state because they fear being killed by a woman will result in them being sent to "hell", one 27-year-old female fighter named Tekoshin told AFP.

"I think [they] were more afraid of us than of the men," she said. "They believe they'll go to hell if they die at a woman's hands."

U.S. Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., in an interview with The New York Post in September also referenced that notion when he climed that Jihadists fear being killed by women because under jihadist law they would be denied the "paradise" they were promised in the afterlife, which also includes a God-given 72 virgins.

"These ISIL soldiers apparently believed that if they were killed in battle, they went to paradise as long as they were killed by a man," Royce said. "And these female soldiers were communicating their satisfaction with the fact that they had taken the fight to ISIL and had stopped the advance, turned back the advance — slayed a number of these fighters, who would then run away,"

One female peshmerga fighter, using the pseudonym Arin Mirkan, reportedly killed dozens of ISIS militants on Oct. 5 after blowing herself up in a suicide bombing outside of Kobane.

"I don't know her exact age but she was above 20. She was a fighter from the YPG," a Kurdish official told AFP. "She threw many grenades at ISIS insurgents. After that, she blew herself up, (http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-militants-fear-being-killed-by-woman-and-losing-72-virgins-for-martyrdom-kurdish-co-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/)""

"However, it seems that male fighters are unclear about whether dying at the hand of a woman comes with the expected reward.

Women have long been a feature of Kurdish peshmerga forces. Now many from threatened towns and villages are signing up to join all-women units to fend off Isil forces who are threatening to overrun their homeland.

"We are being trained to use snipers, Kalashnikovs, rocket propelled grenades and hand grenades," a woman from the minority Yazidi community told The Telegraph earlier this month in the Sinjar mountain range. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11110724/Isil-fanatics-fear-being-killed-by-a-woman-will-deprive-them-of-virgins-in-paradise.html)"

God bless the godless Soviets for having flooded the world with their weapons

And God bless ISIS for being a bunch of primitives. If that isn't just propaganda, which I suppose wouldn't surprise me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 30, 2016, 03:21:24 am

Of course Putin likes Trump. Jingoist demagoges have to stick together...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:48:40 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 30, 2016, 03:21:24 am

Of course Putin likes Trump. Jingoist demagoges have to stick together...

Counter-example: Erdogan.

lol that was easy.

no but really, the reason why Putin likes Trump is that Trump single-handedly destroyed USA's political system and that's good because USA is our opponent on the geosphere

also he probably reminds him of Zhirinovsky

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 30, 2016, 04:41:33 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 05:01:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Who picks the right dictators

The previous dictator. It worked for the Nervan dynasty.

Commodus, yea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 05:00:06 am

Yeah but if Aurelius had a vasectomy before he took office that never would have happened.

I'm only half joking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:00:12 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 05:01:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Who picks the right dictators

The previous dictator. It worked for the Nervan dynasty.

Once more proving that the EU would be 10000% better if it just reformed the Roman Empire already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 06:35:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:00:12 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 05:01:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Who picks the right dictators

The previous dictator. It worked for the Nervan dynasty.

Once more proving that the EU would be 10000% better if it just reformed the Roman Empire already

roman republic >>>>>>>> roman empire

(shots fired)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:50:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 06:35:16 am

roman republic >>>>>>>> roman empire

(shots fired)

*Roman Empire integrates refugee warriors
*Roman Empire crushes its trade rivals and negotiates trade deals with Cathay
*Roman Empire builds walls to enforce its external border
*Roman Empire has powerful military with excellent discipline to maintain peace
*Roman Empire has zero tariffs, combining the power of eagles with the free market to fix muh roads
*Roman Empire understands infrastructure strain and how to maintain stability with bread and circuses
*Roman Empire maintains legitimacy by honouring the gods to ensure good corn harvest, no democracy needed
*Roman Empire supports equal rights to everyone being eligible for slavery
*Roman Empire doesn't bother trying to conquer uncivilized slavs in the east, letting them squat in peace
*Roman Empire teaches everyone Latin and Greek so all speak at least one lingua franca, the Empire is united
*Roman Empire teaches powerful merchant classes to respect the Empire or be tortured to death

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:50:20 am

*Roman Empire has zero tariffs, combining the power of eagles with the free market to fix muh roads

Zero tariffs, but they did have a land tax, and later on a fairly primitive income tax. During its expansion, much of Rome's income came from pillaging, sometimes to the point where taxes were unnecessary. This is kinda hard to do in the modern world.
Ironically, the end came alongside decentralised taxation and more powerful nobles/bourgeois.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 30, 2016, 08:08:23 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 06:35:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:00:12 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 28, 2016, 05:01:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2016, 03:59:06 pm

Who picks the right dictators

The previous dictator. It worked for the Nervan dynasty.

Once more proving that the EU would be 10000% better if it just reformed the Roman Empire already

roman republic >>>>>>>> roman empire

(shots fired)

It's Res Publica, you barbarian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 30, 2016, 08:24:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 06:50:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 06:35:16 am

roman republic >>>>>>>> roman empire

(shots fired)

*Roman Empire teaches everyone Latin and Greek

Denorik ez, ingeles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 08:30:52 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

Zero tariffs, but they did have a land tax, and later on a fairly primitive income tax.

THIS DISTINCTION IS IRRELEVANT, I SAID TARIFFS AND YOU CLARIFY ME BY SAYING TARIFFS

THE ROMAN EMPIRE WOULD GIVE YOU A PROMOTION

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

During its expansion, much of Rome's income came from pillaging, sometimes to the point where taxes were unnecessary. This is kinda hard to do in the modern world.

DURING ITS EXPANSION

EXPANSION IS FINISHED

HAVE MORE PROMOTION

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

Ironically, the end came alongside decentralised taxation and more powerful nobles/bourgeois.

YOU CLAIM TO KNOW THE END?

HAVE MORE PROMOTIONS, YOU ARE NOW CHIEF HARUSPEX

You'll be pontifex maximus at this rate. Also seriously you are so bold and brazen as to claim the singular cause of the fall of Rome? I daresay you are soon to be Emperor.

*EDIT
I shall not even recommend further promotion for such horrendous anachronisms, absolutely plebian

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Arx on April 30, 2016, 09:02:05 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

During its expansion, much of Rome's income came from pillaging, sometimes to the point where taxes were unnecessary. This is kinda hard to do in the modern world.

Not if you try hard enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Calidovi on April 30, 2016, 09:42:54 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

much of Rome's income came from pillaging

Not just most; Rome was entirely dependent on a pillaging income as well as slave labor. Most major invasions was just a product of being broke, and soldiers with money are soldiers that can spend within your empire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 30, 2016, 10:21:39 am

Quote from: Laptisen on April 30, 2016, 09:42:54 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:30 am

much of Rome's income came from pillaging

Not just most; Rome was entirely dependent on a pillaging income as well as slave labor. Most major invasions was just a product of being broke, and soldiers with money are soldiers that can spend within your empire.

Partially. Rome made a ton of dosh in agriculture. The dependence on raiding came from the fact that people sent to war couldn't tend to their farms, which made them broke. Those farms were then bought by people with already huge farms (and who didn't go to war) further driving rural plebs to the cities and into poverty. So off they went to war again, except this time they were on the lookout for loot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 11:33:58 am

Is everyone forgetting the ridonkulus commerce the Romans got up to? You guys make them sound like the Huns, not the Romans. Water-powered great mills transporting Alexandrian grain to be milled and sold, the invention of bankers, bookkeepers and sophisticated law court for mercantile troubleshooting, fish from throughout the Meditteranean salted from Iberian mines, vast sums of lead, tin and silver brought south from England whilst Greek oil, wine moved through the Aegean to the river Tiber, the sheer volume of Greco-Roman glasswork that enabled this vast trade, the bulk movement of slaves, iron, wood, dye all over the place - Gallic gold mines and marble quarries do an economy make! Romans did not get to enjoy the sight of thin silks without trade even with Empires as far east as the Qin without good reason, their engineers made major breakthroughs in mineral extraction that whose results we would not see again until the industrial revolution.

Quote from: Teneb on April 30, 2016, 10:21:39 am

Partially. Rome made a ton of dosh in agriculture. The dependence on raiding came from the fact that people sent to war couldn't tend to their farms, which made them broke. Those farms were then bought by people with already huge farms (and who didn't go to war) further driving rural plebs to the cities and into poverty. So off they went to war again, except this time they were on the lookout for loot.

It was mostly slaves doing the farming and the Roman army was an army of professionals, not drafted farmers - they even marched off to war complete with pensions funded by the Roman state, itself kept balanced through shit like inheritence taxes or primitive sales tax. Or they just got land in the colonies or nicked land off the aristocrats, who promptly began grumbling about the bloody populists nicking their shit (not like they're going to argue with veterans though). Only so much Carthage you can delenda before you must build infrastructure to continue goods extraction or else bust

Also on an unrelated note I love reading letters from Roman soldiers stationed in Britain, complaining about how they miss Gaul, how they dream of again tasting Italian wine, and how they are in dire need of new socks to be sent by their family to their province given the dastardly damp weather :p

Quote

"My brother Veldeius, I'm pretty shocked that you haven't written to me for ages. Have you heard anything from the folks?"

"Do say hello to Virilis the vet and ask him if you can get one of our pals to bring me the pair of shears that he promised me after I paid him. Hope everything is going well. Goodbye."

"The British are unprotected by armour. There are lots of cavalry. They don't use swords nor do these dreadful British people mount their horses to throw javelins at us."

"To Lucius. The real reason for my letter is to hope that you're in good health."

"By the way, a friend has sent me 50 oysters from the Thames estuary on the north coast of Kent."

"Vittius Adiutor eagle-bearer of the Second Augustan Legion to Cassius Saecularis, his little brother, very many greetings."

"Hello there. Hope all's well. I'm in top form - and I hope you are, even though you've been so bloody lazy and haven't sent me a single letter."

"Oh how I want you to come to my birthday party - you'll make the day so much more enjoyable. I so hope you can make it. Goodbye, sister, my dearest soul."

Born too late to share rashers with homesick legionaries
Born just in time to share rashers with homesick euros
Born too early to share rashers with homesick ayyylmaos

Quote

"Masculus to Cerialis his king, greetings. Please, my lord, give instructions on what you want us to do tomorrow. Are we all to return with the standard, or just half of us?...(missing lines)...most fortunate and be well-disposed towards me. My fellow soldiers have no beer. Please order some to be sent."

I feel an abstract feel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on April 30, 2016, 12:25:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 11:33:58 am

Is everyone forgetting the ridonkulus commerce the Romans got up to? You guys make them sound like the Huns, not the Romans.

Huns or Romans, it makes little difference to the people they put to the sword and whose houses they burn. Pax Mongolia is as good as Pax Romana, and either one was only establish after slaughtering and enslaving everyone who stood in the way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 12:56:33 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 30, 2016, 12:25:16 pm

Huns or Romans, it makes little difference to the people they put to the sword and whose houses they burn. Pax Mongolia is as good as Pax Romana, and either one was only establish after slaughtering and enslaving everyone who stood in the way.

Oh now you've gone and well done it :P

When you conquer an area and enslave its people, they are capable of working for you in extracting further resources, and in time will fruitfully multiply into good Romans/more slaves. When you kill everyone you can't really make a mountain of skulls work for you, as cool as that may be. Dacia and Carthage were rather wasteful, but were also fortunately exceptions to the rule - I especially like shrewdness in which the Romans rather cleverly wiped out the previous loyalties of their auxiliaries by forbidding them to serve in their native lands and by forcing them to take in replacements from their assigned province, thereby over time diluting their tribal structure into one that is heavy invested towards serving and being rewarded by Rome / is not even of their previous tribe anymore.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/nL9Rkzg.jpg)

Do the conquered people look happy? No, of course not. Their husbands and fathers have probably just been put to the sword and they're probably being relocated to a Roman town. Over time though those little kids will become the stalwart backbone of the Empire, enjoying in the fruits and growing weary in the travails of their Empire. One need only look at how many of the legionaires write for permission from their centurions to go home - home to Gaul
Seems fitting that the descendants of the conquered become conquerors

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 01:31:54 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2016, 01:03:55 pm

I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if the Roman empire never split and never fell.

probably continued to evolve over time into something completely different as they were want to do. although from a population demographic standpoint they were probably doomed to be overrun eventually. what with decline population due to disease causing declining tax and recruits and rising populations of outside nations and tribes putting pressure on them. though if it wasn't for those bastards in the fourth crusade the ERE would probably still be around in some form.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 11:33:58 am

Is everyone forgetting the ridonkulus commerce the Romans got up to? You guys make them sound like the Huns, not the Romans. Water-powered great mills transporting Alexandrian grain to be milled and sold, the invention of bankers, bookkeepers and sophisticated law court for mercantile troubleshooting, fish from throughout the Meditteranean salted from Iberian mines, vast sums of lead, tin and silver brought south from England whilst Greek oil, wine moved through the Aegean to the river Tiber, the sheer volume of Greco-Roman glasswork that enabled this vast trade, the bulk movement of slaves, iron, wood, dye all over the place - Gallic gold mines and marble quarries do an economy make! Romans did not get to enjoy the sight of thin silks without trade even with Empires as far east as the Qin without good reason, their engineers made major breakthroughs in mineral extraction that whose results we would not see again until the industrial revolution.

All of the stuff you've listed was stolen by force of Roman arms from their proper owners and the Roman Empire fell because its military has stagnated to the point of being unable to continue forcing all the other people to send them the goods (also because Romans were hilariously racist against everyone who wasn't Roman and backstabbed honest barbarians who wanted to serve Rome at every fucking opportunity, which definitely contributed to military stagnation), also Roman engineers were noobs who couldn't even design a decent castle/water supply system to save their lives.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 11:33:58 am

It was mostly slaves doing the farming and the Roman army was an army of professionals, not drafted farmers

Well, if we're talking about Roman Empire, it actually was basically "drafted farmers", more or less. It was a standing army, meaning that 90% of the time the supposed soldiers were busy plowing the fields, with a suit of armour lying somewhere in the shed. Needless to say, the quality of these legions was basically militia-like, unlike ones of Roman Republic.

Roman Republic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman Empire

I mean how else can you explain the pitiful end that the Roman Empires (both Western and Eastern) have met?

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2016, 01:03:55 pm

I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if the Roman empire never split and never fell.

It would've got conquered by Muslims, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople) because Romans, of Imperial variety, were actually very, very shitty at fighting. Medieval Europeans were light-years ahead of Romans in terms of doctrine and technology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 01:43:42 pm

the roman republic was basically a corrupt oligarchy of aristocrats. not really a vary effective governing body.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: hector13 on April 30, 2016, 01:47:08 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 01:43:42 pm

the roman republic was basically a corrupt oligarchy of aristocrats. not really a vary effective governing body.

Not much different from what we've got now, then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TD1 on April 30, 2016, 02:25:03 pm

Et tu, Trump-ei?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: chaoticag on April 30, 2016, 02:42:33 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2016, 01:03:55 pm

I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if the Roman empire never split and never fell.

Answering this is a bit tricky, because you can either have Never Split, or have Never Fell. As for the never split part, Rome was just Too Damn Big to be governed by one emperor. If you lived on the eastern fringes of the government, the fastest you can expect a message to reach Constantinople and back would have been 6 weeks, while the average time would have been closer to 10 weeks. And Constantinople is a world away from Rome, which was not the political center of the western wing of the roman empire. That center was more to the top of Italy and changed from Emperor to Emperor. The second reason there were two emperors was that this wasn't your Caesar's Rome anymore. Caesar could depend on the heart of the roman empire to be Rome, where the senators were and therefore where the political capital was. This political power shifted more towards generals and other Oligarchs within the Empire, so you can imagine if official business took a shitload of time to get from one end of the empire to the other, then keeping all those folks appeased through gift giving and honors would have been even harder. So yeah, Rome would have fallen apart sooner likely if it hadn't split, unless they did something silly like invent and implement a semaphore system.

As for never falling, Rome didn't fall until the 16th century. If you mean, well, what about the Western Roman Empire, since that's where all the Latin speakers were, at that point Latin was quite... weird, and only really "properly" spoken among the upper class, though that list of upper class was expanding in terms of also including people from Gaul. Most common people spoke something closer to Romance, while the proper Latin of the time was basically you giving a speech all the time as the rules were based off of how famous orators spoke. Well, we can keep talking about the West at least. If that wing of the Roman empire didn't fall to a clusterfuck of an usurper and issues with their germanic and hunnic neighbors... I dunno, it might have still fallen in time anyway. If it doesn't fall until the beginning of the Renaissance though, Christianity might not have had as many Schisms as it did, given both Emperors kinda occupied a psudo-god emperor position still, and a favorite saying was that it was no coincidence that Jesus was around when Augustus was Emperor. By extension, there might not have been an Islam, but we're looking at some very muddy forecasts from that point of view.

However you cut it though, the empire was just too big and unable to really deal with how big it was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 03:03:19 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

All of the stuff you've listed was stolen by force of Roman arms from their proper owners and the Roman Empire fell because its military has stagnated to the point of being unable to continue forcing all the other people to send them the goods (also because Romans were hilariously racist against everyone who wasn't Roman and backstabbed honest barbarians who wanted to serve Rome at every fucking opportunity, which definitely contributed to military stagnation), also Roman engineers were noobs who couldn't even design a decent castle/water supply system to save their lives.

Ah yes, everyone recalls when Rome invaded China. It wasn't stolen from themselves, they were the proper owners as soon as they killed the previous owners and deigned to begin administrating over the conquered lands, and it was not simply requisitioned for free; the movement of so much goods and the logistics involved would create the entire continental trade of europe from the sea and the roads that would continue until the Roman Empire was so weak from a multitude of causes - great plagues spread by the trade the Empire fostered for example quickly put a spell to most trade (more trade = death, self sufficiency = survival, but self-sufficiency also means no dependency upon Rome) and so Rome lost a massive source of potential income for itself - leading to further collapse of trade as vandals begin pillaging Rome's lands and pirates take to the seas, further disrupting trade. Leaping off of decades of devastating civil wars, uprisings and the powerful and aggressive Sassanid Empire (paying them for peace only to have the Persians invade anyways lel) the decline was a great fucking mess :D
Also lol das raycis, it's funny how ITT people have said Rome fell because they tried assimilating barbarians but at the same time that was successful and tolerant but at the same time they were racist and it wasn't ~o.o~

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

Roman engineers were noobs who couldn't even design a decent castle/water supply system to save their lives.

Their aqueducts and waterways were so juicy some are still used to supply water to urban centres today Sergarr, BIDF pls
Roman Engineers didn't need to construct Fortresses as appeared in the Medieval era, because siege warfare had not progressed to that point yet - they were fortified logistical centres for allowing armies to remain on continual campaign or as a base to allow mobile patrols throughout the land. It's notable that even at Hadrian's wall, the Roman troops there were not static on the wall, using it to control the flow of people and military patrols. Most permanent ones were often more akin to fortified towns, even fit with their own fortified docks. A great many of Europe's towns and cities can trace their origins and foundings back to Roman camps, with roads connecting them, stores for food and wares, marketplaces and housing for soldiers, auxiliaries and civilians, and juicy waterways. Certainly when it comes to Fortification they wrote the book on it and set the foundation stones. Built by rivers or built by good sites for wells, or built with aqueducts in mind, tl;dr is ur rong
Though it would be pretty neat if the Romans had managed to surmount the whole well-diggers dying of oxygen deprivation thing

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

Well, if we're talking about Roman Empire, it actually was basically "drafted farmers", more or less. It was a standing army, meaning that 90% of the time the supposed soldiers were busy plowing the fields, with a suit of armour lying somewhere in the shed. Needless to say, the quality of these legions was basically militia-like, unlike ones of Roman Republic.

You've got that the wrong way around, the Roman Republic drew its military from levies of drafted farmers, and its standing army had the addendum that no conscripted citizen would have to serve more than 6 years in a Roman colony, the Roman Army would become a professional standing army made up of volunteers who served minimum terms of 25 years (or death) in the Roman Empire's time, having soldiery be their profession.
Needless to say, the quality of the Roman army after the Augustan reforms was far superior to the Republic, overcoming the deficiencies the Republic's military had. Even auxiliaries moved towards being a volunteer-force of natives, given citizenship at the end of their terms.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

Roman Empire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman Republic
I mean how else can you explain the pitiful end that the Roman Empires (both Western and Eastern) have met?

For the Western, it's a long list. For the Eastern, resources constantly had to be diverted against invaders on all fronts, poor use of mercenaries, its great leaders often getting assassinated e.t.c.
They were defending against the Persian Empire, then the greatest military power on the planet - then the Rashidun Caliphate, then the greatest military power on the planet - then the Abbasid Caliphate, then the greatest military power on the planet - then the Seljuk banter brigade arrived and started taking over Anatolia and the Middle East - then the Crusaders arrived, yet when they succeeded instead of returning Byzantine lands just became their own independent Principality and created more Byzantine rivals and so on

Also somewhere along the line they had devastating football bants, only theirs was chariot bants
Fuck the blues, it's all about the greens

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 01:34:19 pm

It would've got conquered by Muslims, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople) because Romans, of Imperial variety, were actually very, very shitty at fighting. Medieval Europeans were light-years ahead of Romans in terms of doctrine and technology.

Medieval Europeans literally being hundreds of years ahead of the Romans might've helped

I mean contemporary Europeans are literally millennia more advanced than the Romans, we're also millennia in their future lol

All the Romans would've had to do is present a strong-enough face to the Persians at the Tigris and not fuck up by losing all their Forts, allowing them to keep a tighter grip on their client-chiefs. Assuming their military was still too fucked to risk facing the Arab army, get gud, defend the Levant and wait for everyone else to starve to death/go home
It's a pretty big what-if though, so assuming Sassanids and Romans fight as normal and cause each other enough harm without either conquering each other, maybe it'd end up with a tri-polar world with a Caliphate stretching from North Africa to the Persian mountains, everything West of that Rome and East of that Persia
And then anything could happen from there, like surprise invasion from Mongols

In other news, Russians and environmental protection (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/energy-environment/russias-mayak-nuclear-site-has-produced-litany-of-disasters/2016/04/29/cabde3fa-0e07-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_story.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:37:39 pm

By "medieval Europeans", I meant contemporary with Eastern Roman Empire ones. Medieval European cavalry was better than Eastern Roman one, by a long shot. The Roman cataphracts were actually unable to charge and were basically just a mediocre phalanx with horses, while medieval European knights were unleashing infantry-destroying charges, kicking asses and taking names, only stopped by awesome huge-ass castles of insane strength and durability that would be single-handedly able to stop the entire Western Roman army from doing anything; after all, castles stopped Mongols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms).

medieval europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> roman empire

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 03:57:22 pm

I won't argue with you there, medieval Europe's castles were dwarf steroids injected into stone. Still, Constantinople was unbroken until the Latins took it, so round about until the Seljuk banter brigade really kicks into swing they were still damn fine. The Byzantine tendency to attack itself whilst itself was under attack didn't help. I wouldn't judge the Byzantine Empire at its weakest as representative of its whole though, before it had retarded/cruel/wasteful Emperors who neglected its military they remained for quite some time the definitive power of Eastern Europe, even with Balkan slavs and Hungarians running about. Also consider that John II Komnenos nearly succeeded in reviving the Byzantine Empire to its former glory (make Rome great again) through siege warfare and shrewd diplomacy - and if he hadn't been abandoned by his Crusader allies (gj guys) he would've retaken the Byzantine lands down to Syria, possibly even beyond, and if he hadn't pricked himself with a poisoned arrow (lol) he might've even been able to stop the Seljuk banter brigade before they turned into Ottoman rape train, allowing for the Byzantine Empire to continue its past of Westabooisation


Also sneaky silk merchants :DDDD

*Could castles have stopped the WRE? They were skilled at breaking hillforts for sure. And the Mongols certainly proved adept at breaking certain impressive Fortresses in Persia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 04:30:51 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 30, 2016, 04:04:38 pm

More entertaining alt history than if Rome didn't fall- what if Stefan Uroš IV Dušan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Dušan) didn't die in 1355?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/u81QlSj.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 04:55:21 pm

castles probably wouldn't have been so bad for them to take. you can just wait them out if you need to and they did that many times in the past with other fortified positions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 05:26:50 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 04:55:21 pm

castles probably wouldn't have been so bad for them to take. you can just wait them out if you need to and they did that many times in the past with other fortified positions.

Yes, but who runs out of provisions and resolve first. The defenders or attackers? You don't have all day, all season or limitless funds, and the further you press the longer your supplies must travel and you must be pretty confident that whilst you're sitting by your enemy is not planning to strike elsewhere. This is rather well exhibited by the siege of Vienna or 100% of Chinese history. At Vienna, if the Ottobants had taken it, it would have been as if taking a new Alexandria or Bagdhad, a beautiful base from which to launch further expansion into Europe. As it stands though, bitter resistance from German mercenaries, Spanish musketeers, a hasty civilians militia and grim determination was enough to make the invading force halt - itself full of elite Janissaries and 10x the size of the defending force. The longer it went on the more soldiers died of disease, the more soldiers grew discontent with the siege going nowhere, the more the strain of Ottoman logistics began to hurt - and then the onset of Winter approached. The size of the Ottoman army turned from a strength to a disasterous weakness, as water and food began to run out and disease only got worse. Few ways are worse to die than to die of demonic shits, and even the most elite warrior is leveled low by this malevolent runny poo or bloody coughs.
Given that the supplies situation was so dire, the Ottomans wisely decided to give it one last shot in an all-out assault and failing that, go home. Unfortunately Vienna's defenders and defences were too formidable and this did not succeed - and so the army had to retreat through winter, losing even more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: TD1 on April 30, 2016, 06:05:45 pm

Or it could be like the battle of Rhodes.

Gotta give those knights some credit, though - they knew how to defend. But cannons don't take no for an answer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on April 30, 2016, 06:14:33 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 01:43:42 pm

the roman republic was basically a corrupt oligarchy of aristocrats. not really a vary effective governing body.

Only towards the end of the res publica (yes, I am sticking with that), actually. About a century before that, things were actually running along pretty well. When it shifted from "I do this for Rome" to "I do this for me" is when it became real bad. And then Crassus and Pompey decided to march on Rome after dealing with Spartacus and we all know how that turned out (I love Plutarch's description of Caesar's assassination though. "either by chance or because pushed there by his murderers, against the pedestal on which the statue of Pompey stood. And the pedestal was drenched with his blood, so that one might have thought that Pompey himself was presiding over this vengeance upon his enemy, who now lay prostrate at his feet, quivering from a multitude of wounds. For it is said that he received twenty-three; and many of the conspirators were wounded by one another, as they struggled to plant all those blows in one body." Also a friend of Caesar that shared his name with one of his assassins was lynched not long after. Read it! (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D1%3Asection%3D1))

"Caesar thus done to death, the senators, although Brutus came forward as if to say something about what had been done, would not wait to hear him, but burst out of doors and fled"

Sic semper tyrannis indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 07:02:32 pm

and then they had absolutely no plan on how to restore the republic and promptly fell into civil war. the funny thing was they really didn't disagree with anything Caesar was doing. they were all necessary and great reforms. they were just pissy they were cut out of it. also Caesar really didn't want Pompey to have died in the first place. some Egyptians just did it thinking he would like it and promptly regretted it immensely. Caesar actually really liked Pompey.

the roman republic basically stopped being possible when people stopped believing in it and following its traditions. once the precedent was set that you could ignore rules and tradition if you were powerful enough it was doomed. that and an easily bribeable and or loyal to commanders professional army sealed its fate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 30, 2016, 08:06:40 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 30, 2016, 06:14:33 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 30, 2016, 01:43:42 pm

the roman republic was basically a corrupt oligarchy of aristocrats. not really a vary effective governing body.

Only towards the end of the res publica (yes, I am sticking with that), actually. About a century before that, things were actually running along pretty well. When it shifted from "I do this for Rome" to "I do this for me" is when it became real bad.

This was more to do with a shift in how the Senate was viewed and operated.
In the early-mid republic, magistrates and consuls answered to the Senate (which was effectively a very large directory), and legislation was handled by the plebian council. This worked pretty well, because the Senate was in fact not a very effective governing body, and while their authority could enforced militarily, most of the domestic matters were handled by the plebs.
In the late republic and empire, the plebian council was effectively neutered, the Senate took over legislation, and the Emperor inherited executive powers. This thrust the Senate into a position it was not designed for, and as it happens having a bunch of rich oligarchs and aristocrats deciding the laws is not particularly conducive to much other than feudalism. Successive emperors curbed the Senate's authority to varying degrees, but ultimately the accumulation of wealth at the top brought the whole thing tumbling down.

Overall, in terms of government, republic>empire. The real successes of the Empire were from capable leadership, and under that leadership empire>>>>>>republic.

E: typos

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 08:46:51 pm

Thanks Obama


"The people are now staging a sit-in inside parliament. Our legitimate and only demand is to dismiss the government and replace it with an independent cabinet of technocrats."
EU foreign affairs chief Federica Mogherini criticised the protesters' actions, saying it was in the interests of the Iraqi people to restore order rapidly.
"It appears a deliberate disruption of the democratic process," she said in a statement.
The EU is not very self-aware is it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36176910)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 05:38:30 am

In other news the German Minister of Justice, Heiko Maas, was chased off-stage by an angry mob yesterday. The crowd, presumably AfD supporters, repeatedly shouted "traitor", "traitor to the people", "leftist rat", "we are the people", and so on.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-01/get-out-traitor-german-justice-minister-flees-armored-mercedes-after-angry-protester

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 02, 2016, 06:52:31 am

hahahahahahaha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 02, 2016, 07:18:47 am

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 05:38:30 am

In other news the German Minister of Justice, Heiko Maas, was chased off-stage by an angry mob yesterday. The crowd, presumably AfD supporters, repeatedly shouted "traitor", "traitor to the people", "leftist rat", "we are the people", and so on.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-01/get-out-traitor-german-justice-minister-flees-armored-mercedes-after-angry-protester

i see our agent network grows stronger

soon we will retake germany back

and through it, the entire european union will be ours

muahahaha i'm so evil

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 02, 2016, 07:23:42 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 02, 2016, 07:18:47 am

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 05:38:30 am

In other news the German Minister of Justice, Heiko Maas, was chased off-stage by an angry mob yesterday. The crowd, presumably AfD supporters, repeatedly shouted "traitor", "traitor to the people", "leftist rat", "we are the people", and so on.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-01/get-out-traitor-german-justice-minister-flees-armored-mercedes-after-angry-protester

i see our agent network grows stronger

soon we will retake germany back

and through it, the entire european union will be ours

muahahaha i'm so evil

uh, hail hydra? ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 02, 2016, 08:42:08 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 02, 2016, 07:23:42 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 02, 2016, 07:18:47 am

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 05:38:30 am

In other news the German Minister of Justice, Heiko Maas, was chased off-stage by an angry mob yesterday. The crowd, presumably AfD supporters, repeatedly shouted "traitor", "traitor to the people", "leftist rat", "we are the people", and so on.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-01/get-out-traitor-german-justice-minister-flees-armored-mercedes-after-angry-protester

i see our agent network grows stronger

soon we will retake germany back

and through it, the entire european union will be ours

muahahaha i'm so evil

uh, hail hydra? ???

they thought that Merkel would be a saviour of Europe, the First Paladin to lead the renewed forces of Freedom to battle again

they though that she would save the Outpost of Light, Ukraine, from the onslaught of Eternal Darkness from the East

but the truth is

she was compromised all along

GDR gambit 100% success Eternal Chancellor of Europe Tolkien Was a Seer Saruman == Merkel behold the truth sheeple

oh and if you believe that the rest of the Triumvirate of Europe will intervene fat chance France is already deeply corrupted as well, what with the indefinitely long State of Emergency they currently have, and UK, well, LW knows that UK's central city, the throne of mammona's power, is already under de-facto occupation from our brothers-in-darkness.

even USA, the Spire Citadel of Free Light, is not free from our long-reaching Black Hand, Trump (who's currently almost certainly going to enter the Presidential race) is endorsed by Putin and you know what that means

all hail the Black Hand of Eternal Darkness

nothing will escape our shadow

i'm intentionally being very silly, if you can't tell

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on May 02, 2016, 08:59:15 am

 In the end the Eagles will come (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle) together with their falcon and raptor friends.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 09:28:11 am

Speaking of which, if Trump does get elected, Germany and most of the rest of NATO are going to be on his shit list for failing to contribute enough. 1.2% GDP on military spending is not going to fly with a Trump administration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on May 02, 2016, 10:11:07 am

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 09:28:11 am

Speaking of which, if Trump does get elected, Germany and most of the rest of NATO are going to be on his shit list for failing to contribute enough. 1.2% GDP on military spending is not going to fly with a Trump administration.

His 'foriegn policy speech' was full of contradictions, so, what exactly he is actually going to do is a huge questionmark still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 02, 2016, 10:39:55 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 02, 2016, 10:11:07 am

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 09:28:11 am

Speaking of which, if Trump does get elected, Germany and most of the rest of NATO are going to be on his shit list for failing to contribute enough. 1.2% GDP on military spending is not going to fly with a Trump administration.

His 'foriegn policy speech' was full of contradictions, so, what exactly he is actually going to do is a huge questionmark still.

isn't it obvious

if/when he gets to power, he will go full Putin and eliminate all obstacles on his path of power, like a true King of Eternal Dark'ness.

and there will be people to support him, because they already do support him using all kinds of underhanded rhetorical tricks on his opponents in debates with his only defence being literally "I'm using underhanded tactics, because they give me more chances to win, and I'm telling you that in your faces, because I know you want me to win against the system at any cost"

foreign policy will be a very low concern for him in his first 8 years of Presidency overall, but he'll most likely abandon the remaining Light Posts of Europe due to their friendly attitude towards foreigners

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 02, 2016, 11:18:35 am

If he gets elected president. the first thing he'll do is sell the US to a Chinese billionaire, doubling his own capital. The second thing he'll do is retire to the Bahamas with lots of Hula girls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 02, 2016, 11:30:28 am

Sergarr, London is not occupied by Russian Oligarchs, Russian Oligarchs are absorbed by London, they are become one with the network

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on May 02, 2016, 03:10:40 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on May 02, 2016, 05:38:30 am

In other news the German Minister of Justice, Heiko Maas, was chased off-stage by an angry mob yesterday. The crowd, presumably AfD supporters, repeatedly shouted "traitor", "traitor to the people", "leftist rat", "we are the people", and so on.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-01/get-out-traitor-german-justice-minister-flees-armored-mercedes-after-angry-protester

Quote

Heiko Maas, the German Minister of Justice, was unable to finish his Labor Day celebration speech on the 1st of May as he was loudly booed and chased off the stage by the German people. The people repeatedly shouted "traitor", "leftist rat", "get out!", "we are the people" and "Maas must go!", eventually getting him to cancel his speech and flee to his armored Mercedes escorted by his armed bodyguards.

At this point I want to proclaim publicly that I, though being part of "the German people", did not take part in this act nor do I approve of it.
He may do stuff I do not approve of either, but I'd hardly call him a "leftist rat" or a "traitor" (which is a term I am wary of either way, given that I do not feel allegiance between us in either direction).

Not to speak of how I believe that calling these protesters "the German people" is as inaccurate as calling the Black Block on other demonstrations on the same day "the German people".

Whoever wrote that obviously is trying to pretend these people are a majority in Germany. They're not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2016, 03:45:12 pm

It's zerohedge. It's like Less Famous Breitbart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 02, 2016, 05:35:43 pm

Antsan that's basic bitch rhetoric like the people's party or the democratic party, are you gonna do this every time politicians and their ilk describe themselves in ways that are not accurate, for if so we shall be tangoing to this tune in perpetuity - politicians and their ilk often fear describing themselves honestly lest they deprive themselves of political momentum

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on May 03, 2016, 01:26:47 am

Yeah, you're right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 03, 2016, 02:51:32 am

Well it's more that you're right, and you're probably going to always be right on this

Political semantics is just as enjoyable as acid eyewash

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on May 03, 2016, 01:51:54 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2016, 04:30:51 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 30, 2016, 04:04:38 pm

More entertaining alt history than if Rome didn't fall- what if Stefan Uroš IV Dušan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Dušan) didn't die in 1355?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/u81QlSj.jpg)

YES.
My life.
Now complete.


Also, related to EU thread: "Greenpeace leaks TTIP info, in (un)related news TTIP to probably be terminated." (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36191577)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 06:43:02 am

Holy shit, Greenpeace actually doing something? And opposing the great harmony? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on May 04, 2016, 06:50:57 am

Good.

The ISDS is seriously the worst part about TTIP btw. It will decrease the power of democratically elected governments in favour of the huge multinationals. It will stifle all further lawmaking that has even a remote chance of "hurting" a business.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 07:06:09 am

Powerful democracy is not desired

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antioch on May 04, 2016, 07:27:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 07:06:09 am

Powerful democracy is not desired

Yes it is, I'd rather have democratically elected governments decide things than undemocratic companies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 07:35:03 am

Desired by you
Not by yEU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 04, 2016, 07:37:17 am

In response to the NATO's announcement of strenghtening their presence in the Baltic and other states bordering Russia with 4000 troops, the Russian defense minister Shoigu has announced that the Russian army will be expanded by 3 full divisions, which will be stationed along the western and southern borders of Russia, to "counter the growing force of NATO units near the Russian border". The formation of the three divisions should be expected to be complete before the end of the year.

Damn, troop buildup for real. Not good. Putin please don't start ww3.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/rusland-kondigt-drie-nieuwe-divisies-aan-als-reactie-op-groeiende-kracht-navo~a4294655/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/rusland-kondigt-drie-nieuwe-divisies-aan-als-reactie-op-groeiende-kracht-navo~a4294655/)

EDIT: In other news, the Dutch Intelligence Service (AIVD) has announced that it will lower the minimum age at which Dutch citizens who have gone to and returned from Syria will be considered as real terrorist threat to 9 years. Acording to their research, IS puts boys in military training camps starting at age 9, where they are trained in handling blades and firearms, and practice executions, and made to swear allegiance to Abru Bakr al-Baghdadi.

For girls, 9 is the age when they start getting lessons in "how to assist their future husband in armed conflict", and also the age at which they have to start wearing a niqab.

According to the AIVD "this makes it so that we have to regard 9 year old returnees as just as much of a threat to public safety in the Netherlands as adults".
In practice this means that henceforth, such children will be registered, monitored, and their data will be shared with foreign intelligence.

At this time, it is estimated that 250 Dutch citizens have travelled to Syria, of whom 42 have been killed, and 40 have returned to the Netherlands. AIVD estimates that about 70 Dutch children are in Syria.

Child Rights department of justice has not reacted yet, but I expect that there'll be some ruckus, mostly about the 'share info about minors with foreign intelligence service' part.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 04, 2016, 09:41:37 am

Quote from: Antioch on May 04, 2016, 07:27:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 07:06:09 am

Powerful democracy is not desired

Yes it is, I'd rather have democratically elected governments decide things than undemocratic companies.

Speak for yourself! I'd rather have powerful dictators telling me what to do and what to think! The feeling of irresponsability that accompanies this is truly liberating.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 10:02:28 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 04, 2016, 07:37:17 am

In response to the NATO's announcement of strenghtening their presence in the Baltic and other states bordering Russia with 4000 troops, the Russian defense minister Shoigu has announced that the Russian army will be expanded by 3 full divisions, which will be stationed along the western and southern borders of Russia, to "counter the growing force of NATO units near the Russian border". The formation of the three divisions should be expected to be complete before the end of the year.

Damn, troop buildup for real. Not good. Putin please don't start ww3.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/rusland-kondigt-drie-nieuwe-divisies-aan-als-reactie-op-groeiende-kracht-navo~a4294655/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/rusland-kondigt-drie-nieuwe-divisies-aan-als-reactie-op-groeiende-kracht-navo~a4294655/)

DO IT
DO IT
DI UT
UNLEASH THE MANCRAB

Funny how that works. Russia does snap exercises on their border so NATO sends four battalions to their NATO border then Russia sends four battalions to their border. Only thing I really give a shit about is that 2 are Murrican, 1 is Britbong, the other 1 is German. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-allies-preparing-to-put-four-battalions-at-eastern-border-with-russia-1461943315) GERMANY HAS A (not) MILITARY AGAIN
BRING OUT THE PARTY POPPERS
Congrats Germanbros, pls do not try to exterminate yuropoors with your new responsibilities

Quote from: martinuzz on May 04, 2016, 07:37:17 am

Child Rights department of justice has not reacted yet, but I expect that there'll be some ruckus, mostly about the 'share info about minors with foreign intelligence service' part.

And let foreigners get avoidably blown up by babby's first jihad?

Quote from: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

Western military is more modern and superior to Russian one, gorillion folded german steel deflect all nuclear missiles

In all seriousness Russia has little choice in the matter unless they can diplomatically secure NATO deescalation alongside their own, otherwise they leave themselves open
Also Helgo this is a very easy way to kill Russia. If they put all their troops facing the Baltics, where are their troops not?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/rp7xa55.png)

Not defending the South, from which they have much less strategic depth (and ground to lose) and their supply lines to the East can be entirely fucked, leading to the collapse of their whole country. So they sent their troops to defend the most likely invasion points, enough to show they are committed. Likewise NATO has done the right thing to show they are committed to defending the Baltics. From here, stalemate. Consider that Muricans want a fourfold increase in European defence budget by 2017 and in Feb alone we had 40k NATO lads milling about, the Russian 30k seems lesser in comparison (http://uk.businessinsider.com/nato-is-planning-its-biggest-military-build-up-in-eastern-europe-since-the-cold-war-2016-2?r=US&IR=T)

Don't be retarded and turn it into a blame game, we're being progressive and having a constructive dialogue m9
I know how gay that sounds but WWIII is quite unnecessary

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:44:52 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

Dude, like everyone knows you have to have an overwhelming numerical advantage to just slow down the proud guardians of Gondor with mere Orcs. It's common knowledge that the real threat of the Mordor Empire lies in terrible darkest majyyks (or "temn'yeishi'e iskus'stva", in the native language of Mordor) that their top-tier magicians wield, and the power they hold over lesser minds. NATO troopers are obviously heavily resistant to that sort of attack, so the Temn'ye overlords need some time before they can conjure ballistic spells powerful enough to demolish the invading Host of Light.

I mean, haven't you studied magical history? Everyone knows that Stalin, after losing the favour of Rasputin and his coven of terrible dark magician ghosts, was forced to rely on incompetent technomancer novices and mass ritual sacrifices to maintain the mass enslavement spells. It was only after his death that the Darkest Academies of Mordor have managed to produce and/or steal enough knowledge to entice and trap spirits within lead coffins and, through radiation-induced torture, generate enough Temn'ye energy without having to kill a few million people every year.

Of course, after the Forces of Free Nations have launched a Spear of Light in 1986, killing two USSR leaders in one year and destroying a vital chain in the link of nuclear Dark Energy reactors in Pripyat', the spells could no longer be sustained, and the Mordor temporarily fell into ruin of Free Light; that being said, the Temn'ye Iskus'stva were persistent enough to survive even after that catastrophic event, and, as we can see now, the new Darkest Academies are working full-stop to produce new practitioners of Darkness and new terrible arts (did you really think that electromagnetic interference pods are being powered by mere mortal physics?) are being invented every years, and with the strategic supply of old desecrated graves renewed with the brutal conquest of Crimean peninsula, the future looks dark indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 04, 2016, 10:49:59 am

That was either beautiful, or worrisome.

I hope you are not under electronic surveillance by the KGB, and can only post fiction to circumvent that  ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miljan on May 04, 2016, 10:56:32 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

Knowing how much NATO and its members are aggressive in the last two decades. Better have huge number advantage to be sure and keep NATO in check, so they dont do anything funny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 04, 2016, 11:18:08 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

I like to think that they're all space marines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 11:49:31 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on May 04, 2016, 11:18:08 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 04, 2016, 09:45:24 am

They're stationing 30.000 soldiers - among them 10.000 destined for the south of Russia, which isn't near the Baltics at all - as reaction to 4.000 NATO soldiers? Either the West has Terminator-tier technology, or this is the ultimate piece of evidence that Russia is to blame for the current escalation.

I like to think that they're all space marines.

We're not at the techno-barbarian stage of mankind yet, though I suppose putting technocrats in charge brings us one step closer to MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS DEEP STRIKE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on May 04, 2016, 12:05:43 pm

It's not because of NATO soldiers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's because PL-01 nears completion.
(http://x3.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/c3201142/comment_FCQMSvfDT0mEtGeo06AlsUAOLKR2e0Pc.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 01:04:23 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno-progressivism
The Omnissiah does not approve of this heresy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 04, 2016, 01:18:15 pm

The flesh is weak, so stick alien technology in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: BFEL on May 04, 2016, 02:14:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:37:39 pm

By "medieval Europeans", I meant contemporary with Eastern Roman Empire ones. Medieval European cavalry was better than Eastern Roman one, by a long shot. The Roman cataphracts were actually unable to charge and were basically just a mediocre phalanx with horses, while medieval European knights were unleashing infantry-destroying charges, kicking asses and taking names, only stopped by awesome huge-ass castles of insane strength and durability that would be single-handedly able to stop the entire Western Roman army from doing anything; after all, castles stopped Mongols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms).

medieval europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> roman empire

Spoiler: Rome Shit (click to show/hide)

Ok, sorry to drudge up the rome thing again but WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT.
KNIGHTS AND CATAPHRACTS WERE NOT FUCKING CONTEMPORARIES.

Do you know what Cataphracts were? They were knights BEFORE THE INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP. So they were basically the same thing, but more likely to slip off their horses if they went too wild.

And when the stirrup was invented guess who got them? CATAPHRACTS. Because the Byzantine Empire was actually pretty good at what it did.
Cataphracts were basically treated as extra mobile heavy hitters yeah, and you know what they had backing them up? HORSE ARCHERS.
So Cataphracts held the line while the skirmishers busted people up from a distance.

Oh, and THATS NOT ALL. You know what the Eastern Romans/Byzantines invented? Napolean era artillery doctrine. With fucking ballistae! They would have chariots cart around mini versions of siege engines like mobile goddamn artillery support.

So NO medieval europeans didn't have JACK FUCKING SHIT on the awesomeness of Roman strategy. Basically all they had in their favor was better metalworking techniques. And that took like 300-400 years.

And on the subject of siege warfare, Romans could've beat castles like nobodies business. Their siege weapons were straight up BETTER then anything conceived of till the Renaisance when cannon started to get gud. You know they had fucking NAPALM? THEY HAD FUCKING NAPALM. THEY MADE A GODDAMN FLAMETHROWER BITCH.

And as noted earlier they had better doctrine for using siege engines as well. So yeah Romans >>>>>> Medieval Shitlords

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 04:22:57 pm

Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2016, 02:14:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:37:39 pm

By "medieval Europeans", I meant contemporary with Eastern Roman Empire ones. Medieval European cavalry was better than Eastern Roman one, by a long shot. The Roman cataphracts were actually unable to charge and were basically just a mediocre phalanx with horses, while medieval European knights were unleashing infantry-destroying charges, kicking asses and taking names, only stopped by awesome huge-ass castles of insane strength and durability that would be single-handedly able to stop the entire Western Roman army from doing anything; after all, castles stopped Mongols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms).

medieval europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> roman empire

Spoiler: Rome Shit (click to show/hide)

Ok, sorry to drudge up the rome thing again but WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT.
KNIGHTS AND CATAPHRACTS WERE NOT FUCKING CONTEMPORARIES.

Do you know what Cataphracts were? They were knights BEFORE THE INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP. So they were basically the same thing, but more likely to slip off their horses if they went too wild.

And when the stirrup was invented guess who got them? CATAPHRACTS. Because the Byzantine Empire was actually pretty good at what it did.
Cataphracts were basically treated as extra mobile heavy hitters yeah, and you know what they had backing them up? HORSE ARCHERS.
So Cataphracts held the line while the skirmishers busted people up from a distance.

Oh, and THATS NOT ALL. You know what the Eastern Romans/Byzantines invented? Napolean era artillery doctrine. With fucking ballistae! They would have chariots cart around mini versions of siege engines like mobile goddamn artillery support.

So NO medieval europeans didn't have JACK FUCKING SHIT on the awesomeness of Roman strategy. Basically all they had in their favor was better metalworking techniques. And that took like 300-400 years.

And on the subject of siege warfare, Romans could've beat castles like nobodies business. Their siege weapons were straight up BETTER then anything conceived of till the Renaisance when cannon started to get gud. You know they had fucking NAPALM? THEY HAD FUCKING NAPALM. THEY MADE A GODDAMN FLAMETHROWER BITCH.

And as noted earlier they had better doctrine for using siege engines as well. So yeah Romans >>>>>> Medieval Shitlords

Spoiler: Rome shit (click to show/hide)

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little Seljuk? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Varangian Guard, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on the Tigris, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top hoplite in the entire Roman armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another green. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this sacred Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over messenger? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the Holy Land and your homeland is being charted right now so you better prepare for the storm, silkworm offal. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Neorion and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the civilized world, you little pleb. If only you could have known what holy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 04, 2016, 04:29:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2016, 04:22:57 pm

Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2016, 02:14:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:37:39 pm

By "medieval Europeans", I meant contemporary with Eastern Roman Empire ones. Medieval European cavalry was better than Eastern Roman one, by a long shot. The Roman cataphracts were actually unable to charge and were basically just a mediocre phalanx with horses, while medieval European knights were unleashing infantry-destroying charges, kicking asses and taking names, only stopped by awesome huge-ass castles of insane strength and durability that would be single-handedly able to stop the entire Western Roman army from doing anything; after all, castles stopped Mongols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms).

medieval europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> roman empire

Spoiler: Rome Shit (click to show/hide)

Ok, sorry to drudge up the rome thing again but WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT.
KNIGHTS AND CATAPHRACTS WERE NOT FUCKING CONTEMPORARIES.

Do you know what Cataphracts were? They were knights BEFORE THE INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP. So they were basically the same thing, but more likely to slip off their horses if they went too wild.

And when the stirrup was invented guess who got them? CATAPHRACTS. Because the Byzantine Empire was actually pretty good at what it did.
Cataphracts were basically treated as extra mobile heavy hitters yeah, and you know what they had backing them up? HORSE ARCHERS.
So Cataphracts held the line while the skirmishers busted people up from a distance.

Oh, and THATS NOT ALL. You know what the Eastern Romans/Byzantines invented? Napolean era artillery doctrine. With fucking ballistae! They would have chariots cart around mini versions of siege engines like mobile goddamn artillery support.

So NO medieval europeans didn't have JACK FUCKING SHIT on the awesomeness of Roman strategy. Basically all they had in their favor was better metalworking techniques. And that took like 300-400 years.

And on the subject of siege warfare, Romans could've beat castles like nobodies business. Their siege weapons were straight up BETTER then anything conceived of till the Renaisance when cannon started to get gud. You know they had fucking NAPALM? THEY HAD FUCKING NAPALM. THEY MADE A GODDAMN FLAMETHROWER BITCH.

And as noted earlier they had better doctrine for using siege engines as well. So yeah Romans >>>>>> Medieval Shitlords

Spoiler: Rome shit (click to show/hide)

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little Seljuk? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Varangian Guard, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on the Tigris, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top hoplite in the entire Roman armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another green. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this sacred Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over messenger? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the Holy Land and your homeland is being charted right now so you better prepare for the storm, silkworm offal. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Neorion and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the civilized world, you little pleb. If only you could have known what holy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

Spoiler: Rome shit (click to show/hide)

 I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for tribute, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let it go, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Best Regards
Hassan i Sabbah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Parsely on May 04, 2016, 04:56:42 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*reads response message*

Good luck.
Good luck.
Good luck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2016, 08:38:41 pm

I know Turkey isn't QUITE Europe, but is inextricably linked...

http://www.politico.eu/article/turkish-prime-minister-ahmet-davutoglu-to-resign/
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/80890590-120c-11e6-91da-096d89bd2173.html#axzz47k0g1826
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/05/ahmet-davutoglus-future-turkish-prime-minister-balance

Sounds like it's due to a power struggle and possibly Erdogans ambition to turn Turkeys Parliamentary system into a Presidential (or Federal) system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Quote from: BFEL on May 04, 2016, 02:14:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 30, 2016, 03:37:39 pm

By "medieval Europeans", I meant contemporary with Eastern Roman Empire ones. Medieval European cavalry was better than Eastern Roman one, by a long shot. The Roman cataphracts were actually unable to charge and were basically just a mediocre phalanx with horses, while medieval European knights were unleashing infantry-destroying charges, kicking asses and taking names, only stopped by awesome huge-ass castles of insane strength and durability that would be single-handedly able to stop the entire Western Roman army from doing anything; after all, castles stopped Mongols (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms).

medieval europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> roman empire

Spoiler: Rome Shit (click to show/hide)

Ok, sorry to drudge up the rome thing again but WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT.
KNIGHTS AND CATAPHRACTS WERE NOT FUCKING CONTEMPORARIES.

Do you know what Cataphracts were? They were knights BEFORE THE INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP. So they were basically the same thing, but more likely to slip off their horses if they went too wild.

And when the stirrup was invented guess who got them? CATAPHRACTS. Because the Byzantine Empire was actually pretty good at what it did.
Cataphracts were basically treated as extra mobile heavy hitters yeah, and you know what they had backing them up? HORSE ARCHERS.
So Cataphracts held the line while the skirmishers busted people up from a distance.

Oh, and THATS NOT ALL. You know what the Eastern Romans/Byzantines invented? Napolean era artillery doctrine. With fucking ballistae! They would have chariots cart around mini versions of siege engines like mobile goddamn artillery support.

So NO medieval europeans didn't have JACK FUCKING SHIT on the awesomeness of Roman strategy. Basically all they had in their favor was better metalworking techniques. And that took like 300-400 years.

And on the subject of siege warfare, Romans could've beat castles like nobodies business. Their siege weapons were straight up BETTER then anything conceived of till the Renaisance when cannon started to get gud. You know they had fucking NAPALM? THEY HAD FUCKING NAPALM. THEY MADE A GODDAMN FLAMETHROWER BITCH.

And as noted earlier they had better doctrine for using siege engines as well. So yeah Romans >>>>>> Medieval Shitlords

Spoiler: Rome is shit (click to show/hide)

1) Cataphracts were not "knights before the invention of stirrup", they were infantrymen with spears who were uppity enough to get on horses. Seriously, their main tactic was to hold their spear in both hands and poke their enemy while slowly riding towards the enemy. This is, like, complete garbage. Medieval knights were actually game-changing, with their ability to crush infinite amounts of infantry by charging, cataphracts were just losers invented by people who didn't know jack about proper cavalry.

Also lol on "skirmishers busting people up from the distance". Even thought why skirmisher weapons, like javelins, went out of style with the advent of Medieval Europe? Because they're garbage. Literally useless garbage against knight cavalry.

2) Roman artillery was, comparatively speaking, shit. No seriously, it was. Even thought why people unlearned how to make all these fancy ballistae and catapults? Because they were actually useless in medieval siege warfare. I can't believe you think that these dank little machinas:
(http://www.naturecoast.com/hobby/images/ma817.jpg)
are better than these MASSIVE TECHNOLOGICAL CONSTRUCTS:
(http://deremilitari.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/trebuchet.img_.jpg)
against typical Medieval European fortifications.

Like, there's a fucking reason why Constantinople was mugged by Medieval Europeans, and not in reverse. Actually, there are multiple reasons here, but one of them was definitely the fact that Romans were shit at contemporary siege tactics and so were unable to even take over a single Medieval Europe castle.

As for "better doctrine for using siege weapons", proper Medieval European cavalry make Roman field siege engines a prey to be slaughtered, and proper Medieval European archers/crossbowmen are literally better at the job of fire support that them. For one, they could actually do significant damage to knights in certain circumstances.

And for "flamethrowers", Medieval Europeans had fucking several stories high walls for a reason, you ain't doing jack to these with your puny flames.

EDIT: Also, btw, EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-refuse-refugee-quota/).

I've generally been on the side that having immigration, when your native reproduction rate is low, is good. However, the way EU handles immigration as of now is complete catastrophe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

Title: Re: Romani Querimonias
Post by: Calidovi on May 04, 2016, 10:02:20 pm

Can miniature siege engines still be considered siege engines? Also, Constantinople has always been butfugged by regional powers, many of whom derived a lot of the same technologies from the original Romans and developed alongside the Byzantines. Perhaps it is not the technology at fault, but the tactics and resources at hand.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

That's why the debate is there. Because there are those who think otherwise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on May 04, 2016, 10:02:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Spoiler: Rome is shit (click to show/hide)

By that logic, Third Rome is also shit. Checkmate, serbs!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:06:56 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

Dude Eastern Rome was also way less advanced than contemporary European technology. Proof: Fourth Crusade.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2016, 10:09:15 pm

Quote from: Calidovi on May 04, 2016, 10:02:20 pm

Can miniature siege engines still be considered siege engines? Also, Constantinople has always been butfugged by regional powers, many of whom derived a lot of the same technologies from the original Romans and developed alongside the Byzantines. Perhaps it is not the technology at fault, but the tactics and resources at hand.

Well, that and their over-reliance on thick walls, which worked until someone came along with a massive cannon that could pratically qualify as a howitzer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 10:09:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:06:56 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

Dude Eastern Rome was also way less advanced than contemporary European technology. Proof: Fourth Crusade.

that better be sarcasm. thems fightin words!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on May 04, 2016, 10:14:48 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 10:09:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:06:56 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

Dude Eastern Rome was also way less advanced than contemporary European technology. Proof: Fourth Crusade.

that better be sarcasm. thems fightin words!

They were literally inside Constantinople when they decided that they would just take it for themselves, and the Empire had bankrupted itself by paying them. It would've been impressive if they'd managed to lose, tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:18:20 pm

Quote from: Baffler on May 04, 2016, 10:14:48 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 10:09:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:06:56 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:01:22 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

Rome is shit

Why yes, Roman technology was less advanced than European technology hundreds of years later.

Dude Eastern Rome was also way less advanced than contemporary European technology. Proof: Fourth Crusade.

that better be sarcasm. thems fightin words!

They were literally inside Constantinople when they decided that they would just take it for themselves, and the Empire had bankrupted itself by paying them. It would've been impressive if they'd managed to lose, tbh.

look the very fact that Eastern Romans has actually invited all these fighting people to fight in their stead, despite the danger of heresy (catholicism vs orthodoxy is srs bsns), means that Medieval Europeans were very, very much better at warfare than contemporary Romans. Enough to risk heresy, at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 10:26:42 pm

the only invited crusade was the first one the following ones just went to fight the Muslims on their own volition. and the ERE didn't want what they got in the first place. they asked for some mercenaries and stuff from the pope and he sent hordes of peasants and army's of brigands. please actually read up on the events you are using to prove your points. and the split wasn't that bad it was mostly a political thing about the popes primacy they weren't heretics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:37:54 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 10:26:42 pm

the only invited crusade was the first one the following ones just went to fight the Muslims on their own volition. and the ERE didn't want what they got in the first place. they asked for some mercenaries and stuff from the pope and he sent hordes of peasants and army's of brigands. please actually read up on the events you are using to prove your points. and the split wasn't that bad it was mostly a political thing about the popes primacy they weren't heretics.

ERE asked for mercenaries == ERE were shit at military. Q.E.D.

As for "split wasn't that bad" whoo boy you don't really know anything about Eastern European history, right? There were more than one conflict that was basically all about "the heretics must be all killed".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 04, 2016, 10:48:05 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:06:56 pm

Dude Eastern Rome was also way less advanced than contemporary European technology. Proof: Fourth Crusade.

The Fourth Crusade was a thousand fucking years after the height of the Roman Empire. The eastern Empire wasn't Rome, it was the shitty bastard son of Rome. And even that shitty bastard son was able to endure for 700 years beyond the western Empire despite being crapped on by barbarians on all fronts.
Byzantium was less advanced than Western Europe because it was in decline. They'd lost huge swathes of land to the Turks and squandered their wealth. The Fourth Crusade wasn't prevailing over Rome, it was prevailing over dying shit bastard Rome who had spent the past centuries getting bogged down by overwhelming odds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:50:54 pm

and the reasons why Romans were universally dying off was because they were shit, Q.E.D.

like have you ever thought why the states after Rome never had these sorts of problems with being swamped by barbarians?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Baffler on May 04, 2016, 10:57:33 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:50:54 pm

Romans are shit

Quote

Q.E.D.

Quote

Quod erat demonstrandum

Quote

Latin

Indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 11:02:49 pm

Quote from: Baffler on May 04, 2016, 10:57:33 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:50:54 pm

Romans are shit

Quote

Q.E.D.

Quote

Quod erat demonstrandum

Quote

Latin

Indeed.

obviously, roman language >>>>>>> romans themselves

this is so obvious i dunno what's to discuss here i mean DUH

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 11:03:31 pm

good lord you are persistent. sense when does hiring mercenary mean you are bad at fighting? it was supper common everywhere basically until the thirty years war. also they seemed to held the Muslims back pretty well for centuries despite being outnumbered and having a succession of fairly bad rulers. the crusaders got stomped on constantly after their initial success.

let me give you the wiki quotes:

Quote

The Crusades were a series of intermittent Papal sanctioned military campaigns beginning in the late 11th-century. They commenced with a call to arms by Pope Urban II who was responding to a request for military support for the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Emperor, Alexios I, needed military reinforcements for the conflict with the westward migrating Turks in Anatolia. Historians debate Urban and the Crusader’s primary motivations. One of Urban's stated aims was to guarantee pilgrims access to the holy sites in the Holy Land that were under Muslim control while his wider strategy may have been to establish himself as head of the united Church and bringing together the Eastern and Western branches of Christendom that had been divided since their split in 1054. What is known though is the unprecedented response to Urban’s preaching and the basis it established for later crusades.

emperor asks for a bit of help. and that means the byzantine army is terrible?

Quote

To take the city by force, the crusaders first needed to cross the Bosphorus. About 200 ships, horse transports, and galleys delivered the crusading army across the narrow strait, where Alexios III had lined up the Byzantine army in battle formation along the shore, north of the suburb of Galata. The Crusader knights charged straight out of the horse transports, and the Byzantine army fled south. The Crusaders followed and attacked the Tower of Galata, which held the northern end of the massive chain that blocked access to the Golden Horn. As they laid siege to the Tower, the Byzantines counterattacked with some initial success. The crusaders rallied, and the Byzantines retreated to the Tower, but the crusaders were able to follow the soldiers through the Gate and took the Tower. The Golden Horn now lay open to the Crusaders, and the Venetian fleet entered. The Crusaders sailed alongside Constantinople with 10 galleys to display the would-be Alexios IV, but from the walls of the city citizens taunted the puzzled crusaders, who had been led to believe that they would rise up to welcome the young pretender Alexios as a liberator.[38]

On 11 July, the Crusaders took positions opposite the Palace of Blachernae on the northwest corner of the city. Their first attempts were repulsed, but on 17 July, with four divisions attacking the land walls while the Venetian fleet attacked the sea walls from the Golden Horn, the Venetians took a section of the wall of about 25 towers, while the Varangian guard held off the Crusaders on the land wall. The Varangians shifted to meet the new threat, and the Venetians retreated under the screen of fire. The fire destroyed about 120 acres (0.49 km2) of the city and left some 20,000 people homeless.[39]

Alexios III finally took offensive action, leading 17 divisions from the St. Romanus Gate, vastly outnumbering the crusaders. Alexios III's army of about 8,500 men faced the Crusaders' seven divisions (about 3,500 men), but his courage failed, and the Byzantine army returned to the city without a fight.[40] The unforced retreat and the effects of the fire greatly damaged morale, and the disgraced Alexios III abandoned his subjects, slipping out of the city and fleeing to Mosynopolis in Thrace.[41] The Imperial officials quickly deposed their runaway emperor and restored Isaac II, robbing the crusaders of the pretext for attack.[41] The crusaders were now in the quandary of having achieved their stated aim while being debarred from the actual objective, namely the reward that the younger Alexios had (unbeknownst to the Byzantines) promised them. The crusaders insisted that they would only recognize the authority of Isaac II if his son was raised to co-emperor, and on 1 August the latter was crowned as Alexios Angelos IV, co-emperor.[41]

seems like a case of bad leadership to me not military failing

also literally the first part of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_army

Quote

From the seventh to the 12th centuries, the Byzantine army was among the most powerful and effective military forces in the world – neither Middle Ages Europe nor (following its early successes) the fracturing Caliphate could match the strategies and the efficiency of the Byzantine army.

and if you read some dates you will notice that they were briefly reliant on mercenaries a bit after the first crusade do to loses of manpower. then leadership perpetuated it for a bit after trying to reform to combat it until the crusaders made it permanent due to their general fucking up of everything.

Quote

After the collapse of the theme-system in the 11th century, the Byzantines grew increasingly reliant on professional Tagmata troops, including ever-increasing numbers of foreign mercenaries. The Komnenian emperors made great efforts to re-establish a native army, instituting the pronoia system of land grants in exchange for military service. Nevertheless, mercenaries remained a staple feature of late Byzantine armies since the loss of Asia Minor reduced the Empire's recruiting-ground, while the abuse of the pronoia grants led to a progressive feudalism in the Empire. The Komnenian successes were undone by the subsequent Angeloi dynasty, leading to the dissolution of the Empire at the hands of the Fourth Crusade in 1204.

they were only less advance after the siege essentially destroyed them and yet somehow after all that they hung on for more than two centuries. shit indeed. ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 11:16:42 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 04, 2016, 11:03:31 pm

good lord you are persistent.

and so are you. this ultimate final irresistible logic weapon should end this discussion: (true == true) => (romans == bad). quad ergo demonstratum 420 1337 720noscoped.

Now, in more relevant news, it seems that the Holy Defenders of Rome were so eager to defend their precious idol from what basically amounted to LW-style shitposting (I mean, what the hell, I thought you would get that this wasn't entire serious, but apparently not) that they've missed this little piece of EU-relevant news I've added:

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

EDIT: Also, btw, EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-refuse-refugee-quota/).

I've generally been on the side that having immigration, when your native reproduction rate is low, is good. However, the way EU handles immigration as of now is complete catastrophe.

Apparently EU (read Germany) is now going to fine people for refusing to take on Germany/Sweden-invited refugees. The cohesion of EU is sure to improve after such measures!

brexit when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scriver on May 05, 2016, 12:54:19 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:50:54 pm

and the reasons why Romans were universally dying off was because they were shit, Q.E.D.

like have you ever thought why the states after Rome never had these sorts of problems with being swamped by barbarians?

Well that would be because they were the barbarians. You can't swamp a swamp :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 05, 2016, 01:48:53 am

Quote from: scriver on May 05, 2016, 12:54:19 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 10:50:54 pm

and the reasons why Romans were universally dying off was because they were shit, Q.E.D.

like have you ever thought why the states after Rome never had these sorts of problems with being swamped by barbarians?

Well that would be because they were the barbarians. You can't swamp a swamp :P

does this means that the current europeans have romanised too much

oh shit time to go back to barbarian roots pronto

anyone knows how to speak in barbarian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2016, 01:52:29 am

I took a Latin class once

wait shit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 05, 2016, 03:10:43 am

Newzealandocentrism is salvation for europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on May 05, 2016, 04:04:39 am

Quote

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 11:16:42 pm

EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-refuse-refugee-quota/).

I've generally been on the side that having immigration, when your native reproduction rate is low, is good. However, the way EU handles immigration as of now is complete catastrophe.

Apparently EU (read Germany) is now going to fine people for refusing to take on Germany/Sweden-invited refugees. The cohesion of EU is sure to improve after such measures!

brexit when

Hey, that's Junker, not Merkel. It's the EU Commission putting forward a proposal. Merkel got immense influence in the council, so that any policy that the EU eventually adopt does bear a German mark, but Germany had nothing to do here.

I also seriously hope they don't got forward with that idea. It's political suicide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2016, 04:06:01 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 05, 2016, 01:48:53 am

anyone knows how to speak in barbarian?

Bar! Barbarbar. Barbar barbar barbarbarbar. Bar, barbarbarbar, bar barbarbarbar bar.? Bar.

(The word barbarian comes from classical greek 'hoi barbaroi', literally meaning 'they who say barbar', used to describe any people that did not speak Greek). So technically we're all barbarians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2016, 04:09:27 am

Allahu Barbar

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2016, 04:10:48 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2016, 04:09:27 am

Allahu Barbar

I'm not sure Arab Moroccans would agree there. Allah is a Berber? Heresy!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Kot on May 05, 2016, 06:04:45 am

I speak Polish, English, a bit of German and Russian but no Greek or Latin. I am very barbaric.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 06:10:51 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 11:16:42 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 pm

EDIT: Also, btw, EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/03/eu-to-fine-countries-that-refuse-refugee-quota/).

I've generally been on the side that having immigration, when your native reproduction rate is low, is good. However, the way EU handles immigration as of now is complete catastrophe.

Apparently EU (read Germany) is now going to fine people for refusing to take on Germany/Sweden-invited refugees. The cohesion of EU is sure to improve after such measures!

brexit when

Spoiler: Soon (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SojWGhU.png)

*EDIT
Our progressive mayor candidate called moderate Muslims Uncle Toms (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/labour-plunged-into-fresh-race-row-as-london-mayoral-candidate-s/)
ayyyyyy lmao fam who thought the leftists calling BAMEs race traitors was just a University and media thing, shariah law got next level progressive potential

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 05, 2016, 02:13:47 pm

I... What? What the Christ?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 05:32:35 pm

Lmao Zac Goldsmith just lost the election because one of his strongholds basically eliminated all of their voters from the registry due to a technical gaffer

Looking like it's gonna be a Sadiq London all the way

Quote

Sadiq Khan shared a platform with five Islamic extremists at a political meeting where women were told to use a separate entrance, the Evening Standard can reveal.
Labour’s candidate for Mayor of London took part with an activist who has threatened “fire throughout the world”, a supporter of terror group Hamas, a preacher who backs an Islamic state and a Muslim leader accused of advocating attacks on the Royal Navy if it stopped arms being smuggled into Gaza.
Invitations said “all welcome” but made clear that women would be segregated at the door, stating: “Ladies’ entrance on Lessingham Avenue next to the snooker club.”
Also on the platform was a controversial Surrey vicar and conspiracy theorist who has claimed Israel could have been responsible for the terrorist attack on New York’s Twin Towers. (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-shared-platform-with-five-islamic-extremists-a3231436.html)

B A N T E R

Interesting thing is that Sadiq Khan is essentially the man who's been running the Labour Party for some time. He's the guy who made Ed Milipede win over his far more charismatic brother (thus dooming them to landslide defeat in the general election) and then he's the guy who nominated Jeremy Corbyn to win over literally everyone else. I suspect him choosing Corbyn is a cunning ruse to make Labour lose even more, so that when he leaves with a proven track-record as London Mayor he himself will be able to bid for leadership of Labour and eventually, leadership of the United Kingdom. Ultimate nimble navigator

Honestly he seems all right, London represent, CLIMB SADIQ CLIMB, THE DREAM IS REAL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2016, 06:02:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 05:32:35 pm

Lmao Zac Goldsmith just lost the election because one of his strongholds basically eliminated all of their voters from the registry due to a technical gaffer

Looking like it's gonna be a Sadiq London all the way

Quote

Sadiq Khan shared a platform with five Islamic extremists at a political meeting where women were told to use a separate entrance, the Evening Standard can reveal.
Labour’s candidate for Mayor of London took part with an activist who has threatened “fire throughout the world”, a supporter of terror group Hamas, a preacher who backs an Islamic state and a Muslim leader accused of advocating attacks on the Royal Navy if it stopped arms being smuggled into Gaza.
Invitations said “all welcome” but made clear that women would be segregated at the door, stating: “Ladies’ entrance on Lessingham Avenue next to the snooker club.”
Also on the platform was a controversial Surrey vicar and conspiracy theorist who has claimed Israel could have been responsible for the terrorist attack on New York’s Twin Towers. (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-shared-platform-with-five-islamic-extremists-a3231436.html)

B A N T E R

Interesting thing is that Sadiq Khan is essentially the man who's been running the Labour Party for some time. He's the guy who made Ed Milipede win over his far more charismatic brother (thus dooming them to landslide defeat in the general election) and then he's the guy who nominated Jeremy Corbyn to win over literally everyone else. I suspect him choosing Corbyn is a cunning ruse to make Labour lose even more, so that when he leaves with a proven track-record as London Mayor he himself will be able to bid for leadership of Labour and eventually, leadership of the United Kingdom. Ultimate nimble navigator

Honestly he seems all right, London represent, CLIMB SADIQ CLIMB, THE DREAM IS REAL

Which London though? ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 06:16:26 pm

Greater London, not the City of London

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2016, 07:37:42 pm

Please explain to me why these people are allowed to meet without having the Home Office slobbering all over them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on May 05, 2016, 07:46:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 06:16:26 pm

Greater London, not the City of London

What's the difference?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2016, 08:00:38 pm

City of London is the middle bit, Greater London includes all the crappy districts around it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 06, 2016, 02:02:12 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on May 05, 2016, 07:46:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2016, 06:16:26 pm

Greater London, not the City of London

What's the difference?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 08, 2015, 08:01:29 pm

We have the Lord Mayor and the Mayor, the Lord Mayor being mayor of the City of London and the Mayor being the mayor of London which is all of London around the City of London. The City of London and Westminster used to be two rival cities, but then they fused and just became one big London, but the City of London retained its rights in the Magna Carta (hence why the government is in Westminster, not the City of London). Oh yeah and 50 years ago the Westminster borough was awarded city status again, so London is technically 3 cities.

The City of London is basically pure, distilled shekel magic: finance, broking, insurance, legal, fund managers, banking and tech startups. Greater London is more diversified into everything. Whilst Greater London is more powerful and wealthier than the City of London, the City of London reserves certain powers and is probably wealthier than any two of the financial centres in Greater London combined, depending on how you measure it - so it's still pretty powerful. Oh yeah, and the City of London is a democracy ran by businesses (by Livery Companies, think evolved guilds, where the guilds are basically representations of the associated businesses), I think it might be the only one in the world where that is de jure the case.
There are Livery Companies of:
Mercers (general merchants), Grocers (spice merchants), Drapers (wool and cloth merchants), Fishmongers, Goldsmiths (bullion dealers), Skinners* (fur traders), Merchant Taylors* (tailors), Haberdashers (clothiers in sewn and fine materials, eg. silk & velvet), Salters (traders of salts and chemicals), Ironmongers, Vintners (wine merchants), Clothworkers, Dyers, Brewers, Leathersellers, Pewterers (pewter and metal manufacturers), Barbers (incl. surgeons and dentists, since people used to have surgery/dentistry by the most experienced human cutters... Barbers), Cutlers (knife, sword and utensil makers), Bakers, Wax Chandlers (wax candle makers), Tallow Chandlers (tallow candle makers), Armourers and Brasiers (armour makers and brass workers), Girdlers (belt and girdle makers), Butchers, Saddlers, Carpenters, Cordwainers (fine leather workers and shoemakers), Painter-Stainers, Curriers (leather dressers and tanners), Masons (stonemasons), Plumbers, Innholders (tavern keepers), Founders (metal casters and melters), Poulters (poulterers), Cooks, Coopers (barrel and cask makers), Tylers and Bricklayers (builders), Bowyers (long-bow makers), Fletchers (arrow makers), Blacksmiths, Joiners and Ceilers (wood craftsmen), Weavers, Woolmen, Scriveners (court scribes and notaries public), Fruiterers, Plaisterers (plasterers), Stationers and Newspaper Makers (journalists and publishers), Broderers (embroiderers), Upholders (upholsterers), Musicians, Turners (lathe operators), Basketmakers, Glaziers and Painters of Glass, Horners (horn workers and plasticians), Farriers (horseshoe makers and horse veterinarians), Paviors (road and highway pavers), Loriners (equestrian bit, bridle and spur suppliers), Apothecaries (physicians and pharmacists), Shipwrights (shipbuilders and maritime professionals), Spectacle Makers, Clockmakers, Glovers, Feltmakers (hat makers), Framework Knitters, Needlemakers, Gardeners, Tin Plate Workers, Wheelwrights, Distillers, Pattenmakers (wooden-shoe makers), Glass Sellers, Coachmakers and Coach Harness Makers (now for cars), Gunmakers, Gold and Silver Wyre Drawers (threadmakers for military and society clothing), Makers of Playing Cards, Fanmakers, Carmen (vehicle drivers), Master Mariners, City of London Solicitors' Company (lawyers), Farmers, Air Pilots, Tobacco Pipe Makers and Tobacco Blenders, Furniture Makers, Scientific Instrument Makers, Chartered Surveyors, Chartered Accountants in England and Wales, Chartered Secretaries and Administrators, Builders Merchants, Launderers, Marketors, Actuaries, Insurers, Arbitrators, Engineers, Fuellers, Lightmongers (electric lighting suppliers), Environmental Cleaners, Chartered Architects, Constructors, Information Technologists, World Traders, Water Conservators, Firefighters, Hackney Carriage Drivers (licensed taxicab drivers), Management Consultants, International Bankers, Tax Advisers, Security Professionals, Educators and Arts Scholars.

I believe every single trade known to mankind that is not illegal by British law is represented. My favourite are the wax workers because they contribute much to bee conservation <3
Also the Monarch has to ask permission to enter the City of London, as in the past the Merchants were always worried about the Monarch walking in with a load of troops and then taxing the shit out of their wool. Nowadays this is not so much a fear, as the Queen has enough wool.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: miljan on May 07, 2016, 12:16:15 pm

Massive protests in Poland
http://www.wsj.com/articles/polish-opposition-parties-rally-thousands-to-protest-government-1462632931

Anarchists Clash With Police Near Austrian Border
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/anarchists-clash-police-austrian-border-38952949

Far right protest against Merkel in Berlin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3578568/Far-right-rally-against-Merkels-migrant-policies-Berlin.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 07, 2016, 01:27:35 pm

Apparently this protest in Poland against the authoritarian government was the largest protest in Poland since the collapse of the Sovjet Union. In Warsaw, about 250000 people took to the streets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sonlirain on May 07, 2016, 02:33:40 pm

Sooo... a priest from a village that's pretty near my home town said that he will grant absolution to people that kill those protesters.
Fun times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on May 07, 2016, 03:20:49 pm

Quote from: miljan on May 07, 2016, 12:16:15 pm

Anarchists Clash With Police Near Austrian Border
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/anarchists-clash-police-austrian-border-38952949

So, they're Anarchists. How do they know that? How does it relate to the incident reported?

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 07, 2016, 02:33:40 pm

Sooo... a priest from a village that's pretty near my home town said that he will grant absolution to people that kill those protesters.
Fun times.

Wow, that's fucked up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 07, 2016, 03:47:37 pm

praise kek
Swedish police quitting in droves. (http://www.thelocal.se/20160506/blue-flight-swedish-cops-quitting-in-droves)
Putin offering disillusioned Britons FREE LAND to resettle in Russia (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/668073/Vladimir-Putin-offers-disillusioned-British-citizens-free-land-in-Russia) Lmao why are my people so defeated I'm dying inside
In early April, the European Parliament doubted Poland's democracy stating it was imperiled by the constitutional standoff, highlighting alarm across Europe over "Law and Justice" push for greater state control. The resolution was initiated by the European People's Party (the largest group in the European Parliament) together with the Party of European Socialists. It was backed by several other parties, including the Liberals and Greens. The resolution passed with 513 votes for, 142 against and 30 abstentions.
Poland in turn called the resolution "absurd, damaging, non-credible, and counter-productive", insisting the document was a result of the Polish opposition's pressure to European institutions. (http://uatoday.tv/news/poland-may-soon-change-its-constitution-j-kaczy-ski-642126.html)

LMAO COUP SOON POLAND GOODBYE, ERDOGAN WISHES U WELL

Saturday's march was organized by various pro-European groupings and parliamentary opposition parties, including the PO and the liberal Modern (Nowoczesna) party, led by a former World Bank economist. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-protest-idUSKCN0XY0EY)
Spehss mahrines, today we will taste death and defeat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 07, 2016, 03:54:24 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 07, 2016, 02:33:40 pm

Sooo... a priest from a village that's pretty near my home town said that he will grant absolution to people that kill those protesters.
Fun times.

woah

Well, I knew that the religious types in Poland were kinda crazy, but this is getting kind of too crazy for comfort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: scrdest on May 07, 2016, 04:05:43 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 07, 2016, 03:54:24 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 07, 2016, 02:33:40 pm

Sooo... a priest from a village that's pretty near my home town said that he will grant absolution to people that kill those protesters.
Fun times.

woah

Well, I knew that the religious types in Poland were kinda crazy, but this is getting kind of too crazy for comfort.

Village priests. They're like politicians, except without all the charm and integrity they are famed for.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 07, 2016, 05:36:29 pm

Quote from: scrdest on May 07, 2016, 04:05:43 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 07, 2016, 03:54:24 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 07, 2016, 02:33:40 pm

Sooo... a priest from a village that's pretty near my home town said that he will grant absolution to people that kill those protesters.
Fun times.

woah

Well, I knew that the religious types in Poland were kinda crazy, but this is getting kind of too crazy for comfort.

Village priests. They're like politicians, except without all the charm and integrity they are famed for.

Well they should really swap that particular priest's collar for a straightjacket.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 07:45:38 am

Fresh Polish news, mo riots mo eurodollla holla. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36236576)
European Central Bank warns the Croatians that any change to the law regarding their own bank must be approved by the European Central Bank. Muh sovereignty say I. (https://www.total-croatia-news.com/business/11781-european-central-bank-sends-warning-to-croatia)
It’s “outrageous” and a “kick in the stomach.” Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban has slammed EU proposals to fine member states a quarter of a million euros for every migrant they refuse to take, as part of controversial quotas. (http://www.euronews.com/2016/05/06/hungary-s-pm-orban-slams-plans-for-migrant-quota-fines/) Lmao all according to keikaku
 With over 28,500 migrants arriving since January 1, Italy has once again become the principal entry point for migrants arriving in Europe, following a controversial EU-Turkey deal and the closure of the Balkan route up from Greece. In previous years, many migrants landing in Italy have headed on to other countries including Austria but Rome now fears it could be stuck hosting thousands of new arrivals. (http://www.thelocal.it/20160507/italy-austria-border-controls-would-be-political-catastrophe) Porry ur life
Italian and African gangs killing each other in Sicily (http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/sicilian-mafia-declares-war-on-migrants-as-italian-city-resembles-more-like-beirut-than-europe_1878986.html), Godfather: The Enrichening

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 08:10:29 am

Quote from: greatorder on May 08, 2016, 07:58:25 am

Godurn migrants they took our crime.

Aren't you just sick of the EU taking away honest crime from honest mafia, it's just discrimination in favour of international criminals. I mean come on, they cover up the same crimes without even supporting their local corrupt officials! Think of the poor little gangsters having their marks mugged, I cry evertim ;(
Organized crime ethics just aren't what they used to be, there aint honour amongst thieves

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 08, 2016, 10:10:10 am

Europe needs to send national mafias to New Zealand, so the cultural heritage of organized crime does not die. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on May 08, 2016, 10:55:48 am

I like the idea, mass deportation of criminals to an island on the other side of the world turned out pretty ok once, so why not try it again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 11:02:16 am

We don't have any islands that would let us do that anymore. Maybe the Arctics, or just use Iceland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 08, 2016, 11:11:38 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 11:02:16 am

We don't have any islands that would let us do that anymore. Maybe the Arctics, or just use Iceland

British isles may work. You cant make situation there worse anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 11:26:45 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on May 08, 2016, 11:11:38 am

British isles may work. You cant make situation there worse anyway.

Yeah you can, they'd just take the first boat to the mainland over and we'd be back to square one
The whole point of a prison colony is that it's a point of no return, otherwise you'd be better off just putting them in an actual prison endangered criminal reserve

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Grim Portent on May 08, 2016, 11:37:42 am

If you get to the point where dumping convicts on islands seems like a good idea it's probably more humane to just kill them and render them into animal feed or fertilizer. Islands are not nice places to be without infrastructure or society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Teneb on May 08, 2016, 11:46:15 am

Well, Antartica's pretty uninhabited...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 11:46:22 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on May 08, 2016, 11:37:42 am

If you get to the point where dumping convicts on islands seems like a good idea it's probably more humane to just kill them and render them into animal feed or fertilizer. Islands are not nice places to be without infrastructure or society.

More humane to give them a choice. Get executed or sent to a bleak island, where by your toil you will profit or suffer
Just look at Australia, they are a better country than the UK and Australia itself is rather shit and desolate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 08, 2016, 02:32:34 pm

OK, so in about 12 hours, the annual March of Smouldering Darkness (http://all-tanks.ru/sites/default/files/images/20110130003155.jpg) will begin. In honor of our victory and domination over the Hitler's Socialistic Heresy 71 years ago, the finest tools of Destruction ever made by Mordor's master acolytes of the Dark (http://rueconomics.ru/uploads/2016/04/12/medium-710x3991460451689yarsraketa-1460451727.jpg), of the Dump (http://im8.kommersant.ru/Issues.photo/CORP/2015/05/07/KMO_148092_00073_1_t223_120208.jpg) and of the Dunk (http://vnews.agency/uploads/posts/2016-05/thumbs/1462482037_s-400_parad_2013_02.jpg), will make their way through the Capital of Darkness (https://www.ridus.ru/images/2014/12/10/254992/large_94bb5c5247.jpg) into the central Tomb-square (http://www.geopano.ru/files/pano001/big/night_red_square.jpg), and the elite Guards of the citadel (https://cdn4.tass.ru/fit/1000x1000_ad2ec9e9/tass/m2/uploads/i/20150507/4004191.jpg) will, along with the High Priests of Darkness (http://gagarinadmin.ru/old_site/_nw/7/40631509.jpg), make the annual sacrifice of tortured souls, contained in the innocently-looking red flowers) to the Unyielding Fire of Udun (http://www.novayagazeta.ru/storage/c/2011/05/08/1307643607_641546_26.jpg), burning there, thus extending it's unnatural lifespan even further beyond, and with it, empower the Timeless Citadel of Darkness (http://inosmi.ru/images/21269/05/212690509.jpg) with unholy powers of Smouldering Darkness (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uZxGclvLsKw/VottS2EMBaI/AAAAAAAAHns/2zIRviDs7uc/s1600/mordo.jpg) and thus allow it to continue to bind the Empire of Burning Evil (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5c/55/c9/5c55c97e5fce1a59f9be28f073c6dd1f.jpg) together.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 08, 2016, 02:41:26 pm

I wonder, if they accumulated enough dark energy to finish Lenin ascension to dark messiah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 02:47:37 pm

Til: Russians worship comrad Khorne

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sinistar on May 08, 2016, 03:11:03 pm

I remember years back when Encyclopedia Dramatica was the shit.

Mecha-Hitler. Versus no other than Robo-Stalin.

So sad I forgot the details, but it took a rather fascinating explanation told us nothing but the truth about what actually happened during WWII. Something something Mecha-Hitler marches on Russland for that or another hilarious reason. Something something Robo-Stalin summons pan-dimensional snow storm. Other lulz.


In the end, Robo-Stalin died due do mustache cancer.

edit:
Oh, I found that copypasta in somehow same state I remember, though Robo-Stalin doesn't have his own page anymore. Too bad. (https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Mecha-Hitler#The_Copypasta)

But yeah, I agree, maybe we should take this to another thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on May 08, 2016, 03:11:45 pm

Here's an idea: Merge this with the Terrible Jokes thread. The stuff there is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful, the stuff here is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful and in the end if it all happens in the Terrible Jokes thread, nobody will be pissed off about it anymore.

Not that I'm pissed off. Really, I'm having a great time. Just seems kind of absurd at this point to call it the "EU-related news thread".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 08, 2016, 03:46:01 pm

Quote from: Antsan on May 08, 2016, 03:11:45 pm

Here's an idea: Merge this with the Terrible Jokes thread. The stuff there is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful, the stuff here is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful and in the end if it all happens in the Terrible Jokes thread, nobody will be pissed off about it anymore.

Not that I'm pissed off. Really, I'm having a great time. Just seems kind of absurd at this point to call it the "EU-related news thread".

There are plenty of EU-related news here if you scroll down a little. My post is also technically EU-related, since I know at least one person who confidently predicted that Russia will invade the Baltic states on the 9th of May; I was just trying to give some plot-relevant context as to why this date is so significant, to our regular viewers at home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Antsan on May 08, 2016, 04:10:57 pm

Yeah, I know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2016, 04:23:27 pm

Ey m8s a year ago I started Swiss hype for the commercial banking referendum coming from the paragon of banking itself; Switzerland. Raise that hype levels up because referendum date TBA (http://uk.businessinsider.com/switzerland-might-end-fractional-reserve-banking-2016-1?pundits_only=0&get_all_comments=1&no_reply_filter=1), one step closer, it need only survive counterarguments in that arcane machine of Swiss people's politics

HYPE SWISSORLAN BRAVO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 08, 2016, 10:04:29 pm

Oh wow, that sounds really interesting. Now we just need to wait of usury to be banned again...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Sheb on May 09, 2016, 04:29:54 am

Quote from: Antsan on May 08, 2016, 03:11:45 pm

Here's an idea: Merge this with the Terrible Jokes thread. The stuff there is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful, the stuff here is kind of funny if it wasn't so awful and in the end if it all happens in the Terrible Jokes thread, nobody will be pissed off about it anymore.

Not that I'm pissed off. Really, I'm having a great time. Just seems kind of absurd at this point to call it the "EU-related news thread".

Kinda agree with you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 09, 2016, 04:38:43 am

Fine.

 8)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 09, 2016, 04:42:45 am

:o

its happnening

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 09, 2016, 04:58:23 am

[insert immigrant/terrorist joke here]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 09, 2016, 05:41:48 am

"don't make me angry"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/Bruceerdoganner_zpsipih3nqx.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/Bruceerdoganner_zpsipih3nqx.png.html)
http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/bas-van-der-schot~p3761404/3790167/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 05:56:39 am

Brexit could trigger world war three. - David Cameron (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607)

JUNCKER WILL NUKE LONDON WITH FROG NUKES

ONLY MUTUALLY ASSURED BORIS WILL GUARANTEE SAFETY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 09, 2016, 05:59:49 am

wasn't he saying the same thing back when Scotland was doing the referendum

btw how's that "devolution of powers" going on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on May 09, 2016, 06:01:54 am

I stand by my "Terrible Jokes" comment. :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 09, 2016, 06:04:05 am

EU itself is the most terrible joke of all.

Also, since Brexit will get us inevitably closer to ww3, please don't insult our Russian friends with Ivan the Terrible jokes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 09, 2016, 06:39:47 am

/me suddenly realizes that he doesn't know any jokes with Ivan the Terrible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 07:17:01 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 09, 2016, 06:39:47 am

/me suddenly realizes that he doesn't know any jokes with Ivan the Terrible

Spoiler: Ivan the Terrible Pun (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/kfzDsRI.png)

Quote from: Sergarr on May 09, 2016, 05:59:49 am

wasn't he saying the same thing back when Scotland was doing the referendum

And did WWIII happen? Checkmate atheists

Quote from: Sergarr on May 09, 2016, 05:59:49 am

btw how's that "devolution of powers" going on

Pretty uneventful, biggest thing that happened was the full transfer of business rates but that doesn't sound sexy so no journalists really gave a shit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on May 09, 2016, 07:19:47 am

what is this I don't Ivan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 08:52:30 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/erdogan-turkey-not-alter-anti-terror-laws-visa-free-travel-eu
Actual news
Erdobants threatens to crash EU-Turkish pact, EU politicians surprisingly unhappy to be losing a border with Syria

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 09, 2016, 01:42:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 05:56:39 am

Brexit could trigger world war three. - David Cameron (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607)

JUNCKER WILL NUKE LONDON WITH FROG NUKES

ONLY MUTUALLY ASSURED BORIS WILL GUARANTEE SAFETY

Did not Obama smash your brexit phantasies?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sinistar on May 09, 2016, 02:03:36 pm

I'm pretty sure Loud Whispers would take no pansy dream-smashing-Obama for an answer against EU-free UK.

Pretty sure LW is prepared to go on to the end, to fight in France, fight on the seas and oceans, fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, he shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. He shall fight on the beaches, he shall fight on the landing grounds, he shall fight in the fields and in the streets, he shall fight in the hills; he shall never surrender.


At least that's the feeling I have. Might assumptions might be wrong and if so I apologize to LW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 06:50:59 pm

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on May 09, 2016, 01:42:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2016, 05:56:39 am

Brexit could trigger world war three. - David Cameron (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607)

JUNCKER WILL NUKE LONDON WITH FROG NUKES

ONLY MUTUALLY ASSURED BORIS WILL GUARANTEE SAFETY

Did not Obama smash your brexit phantasies?

No, he made them stronger. This is the nob who sold our nuclear serials to Russia and spent the last two terms doing his best to insult the UK with DVD boxsets, I can suffer a thousand years of more insults just to see this through; no phantasy, we phatty ambition.

The poll found 46 percent would vote "Out", up one percentage point from the previous ICM poll on May 3, while 44 percent would support staying in the bloc, unchanged from the previous survey. (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poll-icm-idUKKCN0Y01OM)
Fanks Obama :3
Also who knows whether his speech was drafted by no.10, I can't tell whether him using British English over Murrican is a sign of something bigger. I don't doubt it but I don't really care either way, even amongst pro-EU campaigners Obama's intervention pissed them off because he was overstepping himself. Last time Americans had the choice between access to a powerful market or independence they threw our tea in the ocean, it's real rich telling us we should sell ours :]

Quote from: Sinistar on May 09, 2016, 02:03:36 pm

I'm pretty sure Loud Whispers would take no pansy dream-smashing-Obama for an answer against EU-free UK.
Pretty sure LW is prepared to go on to the end, to fight in France, fight on the seas and oceans, fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, he shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. He shall fight on the beaches, he shall fight on the landing grounds, he shall fight in the fields and in the streets, he shall fight in the hills; he shall never surrender.
At least that's the feeling I have. Might assumptions might be wrong and if so I apologize to LW.

I think everyone is prepared to go on to the end, because there never really is an end - life goes on for as long as there's still breath in you. There's no fight in France that the French aren't capable of doing themselves, the seas and oceans we'll have to work on, maybe Heathrow will finally surpass EU regulation and expand our strength in the air, but if given the choice I would rather not wish to see my Islands defended at all costs - it would be rather self-defeating to sacrifice the Isles in the defence of the Isles for example. Much funnier to seek asymmetrical banter or just personal enrichment. If one lacks a Britain to make dank head off to the European bank to become President ;P
On an off note I don't care if dreams are smashed, I've long considered that dreams are a means to forget, not to disparage those who spend their lives chasing after dreams but I just don't see that as a worthwhile use of time. Much more fun seeking to move a grain of sand in reality than to move the world in your dreams.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 10, 2016, 12:20:24 pm

In response to Erdogan pressing charges in Germany against Matthias Döpfner, the board director of the German media company Axel Springer, for publicly supporting Böhmermann, the Belgian ex-prime minister, Guy Verhofstadt, presently the chairman of the liberal faction of the EU parliament, has called upon his fellow politicians, and journalists to make Erdogan sue them in court.
He said "apparently mister Erdogan sees it fit to try and sue everyone who laughs about him. So I think to myself, what would happen, if all of us are going to repeat the words Döpfner said? Is he going to sue us all? Satire is allowed in Europe".

The German court ruled today that they are impervious to the case, and denied Erdogan's request to forbid Döpfner from speaking in public.
The judge ruled that "mister Döpfner has every right to use his freedom of opinion.

Döpfner, publisher of, among others, the Bild, had written an open letter to Welt am Sonntag, in which he defended Böhmermann. He wrote that "I think his poem is a success. It made me laugh hard. I will, mister Böhmermann, by way of precaution, with respect to content, completly agree with your formulations and snide remarks".

This prompted Erdogan to tell his German lawyer to press charges against Döpfner, and demand a gag order.
Erdogan's lawyer, Höcker, already said last week that he did not expect the win the case at the first court session, and that he would advise his client to appeal before high court.
The lawyer also compared the recent trend of insulting Erdogan with group rape.
"Once one has started, more and more crawl out of their holes to join in on the gangrape".

Inb4 gangrape victims sue Erdogan

Also, this whole erdogan goatfucking censorship thing makes me think of that old punk song, censored and confiscated by british police and later covered by metallica.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What%3F_%28Anti-Nowhere_League_song%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What%3F_%28Anti-Nowhere_League_song%29)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XoyDqFy5pU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XoyDqFy5pU)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 10, 2016, 01:58:56 pm

Quote

The lawyer also compared the recent trend of insulting Erdogan with group rape.
"Once one has started, more and more crawl out of their holes to join in on the gangrape"

Somehow this analogy makes everything more ridiculous, considering the sort of poems and mockery that are being directed against Erdogan...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 10, 2016, 08:54:13 pm

Diplomatic efforts behind the scenes by the Dutch foreign ministry managed to get journalist Ebru Umar out of Turkey. She has been allowed to leave the country this evening, and has just arrived in the Netherlands. The Turkish government agreed to allow her to leave, but is not dropping the charges against her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 10, 2016, 09:49:46 pm

So Erdogan tried to continue pressing charges after the German judge said Dopfner is immune? lol.....

Europe should do an 'insult and/or criticize* Erdogan challenge' thing and dare him to sue all participants because really, that guy still thinks he can push his laws onto other countries.

*I've read that he says he can take criticism, but really, he jails even those who simply criticize him, so.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 11, 2016, 11:17:07 pm

Wtf Scotland

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/09/nazi-salute-dog-man-faces-hate-crime-charge-scotland

TRIGGER WARNING: NAZI DOG AHEAD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYslEzHbpus

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 12, 2016, 03:29:41 am

Dafuq? And they actually arrested him? I mean, what's the logic behind that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 12, 2016, 04:52:30 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 12, 2016, 03:29:41 am

Dafuq? And they actually arrested him? I mean, what's the logic behind that?

They were triggered.

...

Actually, could you get arrested for that in Austria/Germany?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 12, 2016, 05:42:50 am

Germany possibly. Or at least charges could be brought. It seems kind of silly to actually go and arrest the guy, it's not like he's dangerous or anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 12, 2016, 05:45:33 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 12, 2016, 03:29:41 am

Dafuq? And they actually arrested him? I mean, what's the logic behind that?

Don't know about scotland, but around here, doing the salute outside stuff like acting or satire can end up with you arrested too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 12, 2016, 05:56:08 am

This was a dog hailing a screen. Hows that not satire? ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 12, 2016, 06:01:17 am

Iunno, training your dog to do the Hitler salute is definitely a Nazi thing around these parts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 12, 2016, 09:10:04 am

AFAIK a number of central/eastern European countries criminalise the whole nazi thing because nazi war crimes were kind of a big deal around there. Elsewhere the impact is less direct so there's not really any point in cracking down on it.

Scotland is far enough away that the only reason for the dude to be arrested is some moral busybodies getting offended.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 12, 2016, 12:46:47 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on May 12, 2016, 06:01:17 am

Iunno, training your dog to do the Hitler salute is definitely a Nazi thing around these parts.

Nah fam only the pug's a nazi

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on May 12, 2016, 01:07:23 pm

Hell, the dude even says it's just a fucking joke to piss his friend off.

So he's arresting because some people found his joke to be offensive. Holy shit this is like a whole new level of policing speech here

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 12, 2016, 01:17:34 pm

It's one thng to do that to piss off his friend and another to post the video online. It seems like the point they are making is that even if it's someone just being a troll, it's not allowed because otherwise it'll look okay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on May 12, 2016, 01:57:10 pm

We also have a history of sectarian and ethnic violence with a very close link to 'humour'. This is not dissimilar to banning singing sectarian songs at football games in the hopes of detoxifying the atmosphere at matches.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on May 12, 2016, 04:45:34 pm

tfw the dog in question is a degenerate Unterhund and not a purebred Aryan shepherd

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 12, 2016, 05:15:48 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 12, 2016, 01:17:34 pm

It's one thng to do that to piss off his friend and another to post the video online. It seems like the point they are making is that even if it's someone just being a troll, it's not allowed because otherwise it'll look okay.

muh slippery slope

pugzstaffel confirmed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 12, 2016, 06:21:42 pm

Almost sprayed juice all over my monitor laughing at "pugzstaffel".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 13, 2016, 03:20:37 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on May 12, 2016, 01:57:10 pm

We also have a history of sectarian and ethnic violence with a very close link to 'humour'. This is not dissimilar to banning singing sectarian songs at football games in the hopes of detoxifying the atmosphere at matches.

Somehow, I don't think that video would directly have incited violence. If you're going to use the full power of the law to silence even videos of dogs doing a nazi salute, the potential for abuse is just too high.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 13, 2016, 03:36:00 am

Always better to err on the side of caution with censorship IMO. If a person is saying "go out and kill people in group X" then by all means, censor away, but banning humour is stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on May 13, 2016, 04:13:43 am

But none of that is for the arresting officers to decide, and overlooking events that appear to be just jokes might miss some incidents that actually matter. What's likely going to happen is the case gets glanced at by someone in the judiciary system and thrown out for not being worth a judge's time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 13, 2016, 04:18:58 am

Someone signed the arrest warrant, and that person is an idiot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 13, 2016, 09:18:57 am

Just wondering out of curiosity whether it's mostly an American thing or it happens elsewhere, is it common for your politicians (especially those running for top office) to release their taxes before election?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 13, 2016, 12:12:17 pm

Nope. Here in Sweden, because of the Publicity Principle, almost all state information is public, including taxes. So it's already available.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 13, 2016, 12:14:29 pm

Quote from: Covenant on May 13, 2016, 07:45:48 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 12, 2016, 09:10:04 am

AFAIK a number of central/eastern European countries criminalise the whole nazi thing because nazi war crimes were kind of a big deal around there. Elsewhere the impact is less direct so there's not really any point in cracking down on it.

Scotland is far enough away that the only reason for the dude to be arrested is some moral busybodies getting offended.

Police Scotland have certainly got form (https://twitter.com/GreaterGlasgPol/status/715867273261662208) for looking like Orwellian ratbags. (https://twitter.com/policescotland/status/549955567960465408)

Police Scotland also took 3 days to investigate a fatal car crash. Either this is because they're entirely incompetent - in which case the tweeters have nothing to worry about - or the tweets take precedence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 13, 2016, 09:08:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 13, 2016, 09:18:57 am

Just wondering out of curiosity whether it's mostly an American thing or it happens elsewhere, is it common for your politicians (especially those running for top office) to release their taxes before election?

In NZ (which isn't Europe, but we're close to Australia, which is close enough) politicians don't release tax information because nobody cares.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on May 14, 2016, 06:11:49 pm

Don't want to pollute the eurovision thread with too much politics.

It is funny how something as minor as some song contest can be a very major event for a small nation. Crimean Tatars needed it. Eurovision winner fame is short but it still results in media attention.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on May 15, 2016, 04:07:48 am

Eurovision Song Contest 2016 - Recap of ALL Songs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATrI8ES0tRg
Rant on:
From all the song, only 3 or 4 fucking countries are not singing on fucking english. Fucking disappointed.
Rant off

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 15, 2016, 04:55:40 am

What's wrong with English? It's lingua franca. The language of everyone.

E: Speaking of Eurovision:

Spoiler: Warning: polandball (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/9i9IBhH.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on May 15, 2016, 05:00:01 am

I'm always surprised of how many people actually neither speak nor understand English. In a first world country where it's part of the school curriculum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 15, 2016, 08:04:23 am

Refugees gonna cost Germany 100 gorillion shekels by 2020) (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-costs-idUSKCN0Y50DY)


My sides have started their own space program

How do I always underestimate these things

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 15, 2016, 08:43:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 15, 2016, 08:04:23 am

Refugees gonna cost Germany 100 gorillion shekels by 2020) (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-costs-idUSKCN0Y50DY)


My sides have started their own space program

How do I always underestimate these things

Quote

Officials based their estimates on 600,000 migrants arriving this year, 400,000 next year and 300,000 in each of the following years, the report said, adding that they expected 55 percent of recognized refugees to have a job after five years.

45 percent official (i.e. very optimistic) expected unemployment among recognized refugees

oh wow

also lol @ tide of refugees not decreasing to zero, even in official estimates. The gates of Elysium have been opened, and people now will eternally flock to the source of:

Quote

The report said that 25.7 billion euros ($29.07 billion) would be needed for jobless payments, rent subsidies and other benefits for recognized asylum applicants by the end of 2020.

benefits

also:

Quote

Another 5.7 billion euros would be needed for language courses and 4.6 billion euros would be required for measures to help migrants get jobs, it added.

I see no indoctrination & forced patriotism courses in this budget

where are the indoctrination & forced patriotism courses

it's the only way to make immigration actually work, as evident by USA's being the only country which allowed massive immigration and didn't get fucked up as a result

there's a reason why they force children at school to sing USA's national anthem every single day

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 15, 2016, 09:29:01 am

We give forced progresiv courses, the USA does too

Also implying that they are not hard working factory technicians is haram please chekc yourself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 15, 2016, 10:24:05 am

>implying the US isn't fucked up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 15, 2016, 11:13:27 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 15, 2016, 10:24:05 am

>implying the US isn't fucked up

>trasmitting this message through a USA-developed global communcation network and on USA-developed computer technology

seems like someone is not appreciating the POWER OF USA enough

10 more forced patriotism indoctrination sessions for you!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 15, 2016, 03:31:24 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 15, 2016, 08:43:31 am

there's a reason why they force children at school to sing USA's national anthem every single day

Pledge of Allegiance != National Anthem.  But yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 15, 2016, 04:36:47 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on May 15, 2016, 03:31:24 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 15, 2016, 08:43:31 am

there's a reason why they force children at school to sing USA's national anthem every single day

Pledge of Allegiance != National Anthem.  But yeah.

We all see through Obama's ruse to capture the souls of American children, thanks to Sputnik bastion of freedom news

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 17, 2016, 04:47:44 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 15, 2016, 08:43:31 am

Quote

Officials based their estimates on 600,000 migrants arriving this year, 400,000 next year and 300,000 in each of the following years, the report said, adding that they expected 55 percent of recognized refugees to have a job after five years.

45 percent official (i.e. very optimistic) expected unemployment among recognized refugees

That's a bit pessimistic if anything. 55% percent employment for refugees is what we have in Belgium, and our untnememployment rate is twice the German rate (8.5% vs. 4.2). The wording is a bit unclear too, do they expect 55% of ALL refugees to have jobs? I expect they mean "of working age refugees"?

Also do note that unemployment isn't the same as 100%-(% of those that have a job). If that 55% number is their target for labour participation, It's actually the same as that for the German population as a whole. (http://www.bls.gov/fls/country/germany.htm)

Also, that's just cost, doesn't take into account the benefits from those refugees finding jobs and paying taxes. It's nice to compare though: Germany spend 26% of GDP on social spending, or about 11.000 euros per person per year. Using those numbers, if the German government is spending as much on each refugees as it spend on each German, assuming their estimate for future numbers are real and 1 million refugees came in in 2015, I get a total of 125 billions. I guess the difference is largely due to the fact that refugees don't draw pensions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 17, 2016, 01:00:27 pm

A judge ruled verdict in Hamburg and has forbidden Böhmermann from repeating parts of his Erdogan poem. He can still recite parts about freedom of speech, but is no longer allowed to call Erdogan a goatfucker or pedofile.

Böhmermann's lawyer, Christian Scherz, has already called the judge's verdict wrong.
He says "the court is correct in concluding that Böhmermann's poem classifies as satire, and an expression of art, which makes it very strange that the verdict forbids parts of it"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 17, 2016, 01:23:15 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 17, 2016, 01:00:27 pm

A judge ruled verdict in Hamburg and has forbidden Böhmermann from repeating parts of his Erdogan poem. He can still recite parts about freedom of speech, but is no longer allowed to call Erdogan a goatfucker or pedofile.

Böhmermann's lawyer, Christian Scherz, has already called the judge's verdict wrong.
He says "the court is correct in concluding that Böhmermann's poem classifies as satire, and an expression of art, which makes it very strange that the verdict forbids parts of it"

And the judge didn't have a moment of cognitive dissonance over it? heh.

Edit: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006 He's apparently done pretty controversial stuff before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 17, 2016, 01:36:06 pm

I dont get, how calling someone pedophile and goatficker is elegant satire.
Germany has different meaning for satire?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on May 17, 2016, 01:37:25 pm

...Apparently the BBC is shitposting like the best of us now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWUmSbt0Ms

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on May 17, 2016, 02:11:19 pm

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on May 17, 2016, 01:36:06 pm

I dont get, how calling someone pedophile and goatficker is elegant satire.
Germany has different meaning for satire?

Where does the "elegant" come from? It only read an unqualified "satire".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 17, 2016, 02:32:06 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 17, 2016, 01:23:15 pm

Edit: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006) He's apparently done pretty controversial stuff before.

To be quite fair, I've seen Charlie Hebdo magazine be much more insulting and controversial towards politicians, religions, and <insert minority group here> than this slightly bestiality-tinted poem of Böhmermann, which, as far as satire goes, tasteless or no, did a pretty good job at getting people's attention on what is happening in Turkey.

je suis Böhmermann

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on May 17, 2016, 02:32:13 pm

German humor was never refined. I still remember that one disgusting picture with the pope shitting himself... i think the article was about pedophilia...

Anyway don't expect any class from german humor.
EVER.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 17, 2016, 02:36:30 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on May 17, 2016, 01:37:25 pm

...Apparently the BBC is shitposting like the best of us now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWUmSbt0Ms

I WANT NORMIES TO LEAVE THE BEEB REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 17, 2016, 02:32:13 pm

German humor was never refined. I still remember that one disgusting picture with the pope shitting himself... i think the article was about pedophilia...
Anyway don't expect any class from german humor.
EVER.

German humour was never invented, don't expect class or even jokes, ever. Their jokes don't have any teeth to them, they're something you at most have a sensible chortle to and nod approvingly, never laughing aghast at the wretched joke you have born witness to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 17, 2016, 05:14:01 pm

Ugh, who cares of its satire or not.


Just admit that Erdogan deserves to be insulted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 17, 2016, 08:54:20 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 17, 2016, 02:32:13 pm

Anyway don't expect any class from german humor.

Hey, there's actually a lot of great German humor - it's just usually hard to translate/difficult to understand. Try Heine's Wintermärchen for a lot of good examples. Or Tucholsky. Or Ein Herz und eine Seele.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smirk on May 17, 2016, 10:08:53 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on May 17, 2016, 02:32:13 pm

Anyway don't expect any class from german humor.

Counterpoint: German humor is the classiest. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5I_p1GGz_I)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 18, 2016, 12:08:51 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 17, 2016, 08:54:20 pm

Hey, there's actually a lot of great German humor - it's just usually hard to translate/difficult to understand. Try Heine's Wintermärchen for a lot of good examples. Or Tucholsky. Or Ein Herz und eine Seele.

Did he fall in a lake? It's not funny unless he fell in a lake.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 18, 2016, 04:02:33 am

Aye, much lake falling is comedy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on May 18, 2016, 05:50:49 am

Haven't followed the topic closely.

Did anyone mention new information (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/12/russian-doctors-athletes-evaded-doping-tests) about great Russian victory at Sochi Olympics?

I always wondered why Russia was in a very bad shape in the first half of Sochi and than started to get medal after medal. FSB special operation does make sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 18, 2016, 06:37:12 pm

Apparently the queens speech recently announced that we're getting a spaceport.

This will presumably be important for the launch of a pair of LW-grade sides to LEO when the referendum is a perfect 50/50 to the last man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 18, 2016, 07:10:58 pm

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on May 17, 2016, 01:36:06 pm

I dont get, how calling someone pedophile and goatficker is elegant satire.
Germany has different meaning for satire?

The point is that it was about someone who is an extremely awful person, and it's extremely sensitive to criticism. To satirize that you need to come up with the most ridiculous and offensive accusations you can. The offensive claims are both a metaphor for how awful that person actually is, and make a point about how they silence their critics.

So in other words, the joke isn't the specific claims, but the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: mainiac on May 18, 2016, 07:18:37 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 18, 2016, 06:37:12 pm

Apparently the queens speech recently announced that we're getting a spaceport.

That's not good. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvRBOGU-FCo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 18, 2016, 10:59:15 pm

Egypt isn't Europe, but the plane came from Paris and well, Mediterranean and all that jazz...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html

It happened not long ago, extremely little info right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 19, 2016, 07:34:14 am

Quote from: Antioch on May 17, 2016, 05:14:01 pm

Ugh, who cares of its satire or not.


Just admit that Erdogan deserves to be insulted.

Insulting him does not improve situation in any way. There is  medieval religious dictator right next to europe, who can do whatever he wants, and only thing europe can do about this is throw refined elegance of german humour in him. Meanwhile he holds his hand on the valve controlling refugee flow and gets paid by europe for not making everything worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 19, 2016, 09:33:10 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 18, 2016, 06:37:12 pm

Apparently the queens speech recently announced that we're getting a spaceport.

This will presumably be important for the launch of a pair of LW-grade sides to LEO when the referendum is a perfect 50/50 to the last man.

From current year-1:

Quote

The emphasis will be on the expected emergence of a new breed of low-cost rocket planes that can launch fare-paying passengers to sub-orbital altitudes and also satellites into orbit.

Most of potential vehicles are still quite some time away from flying, but ministers believe that if the UK gets its act together now, the nation can catch the first wave when it arrives.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31711083

It's a spaceport without spaceships, least until Virgin spaceairlines or their competitors find a way to make a commercially viable spacefleet

Either that or:

Quote

New laws regulating the use of drones are being drawn up to help British companies champion the technology, and ministers want to make driverless cars a feature of roads by the end of the decade.

The government has been considering a commercial spaceport for some time, with a site in Newquay, Cornwall, regarded as a frontrunner for the £150 million development that could become a hub for space tourism.

Few details were disclosed about the proposals
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/spaceport-given-lift-off-to-help-britain-drive-transports-future-2wbncddnw

Top sekrit information that will not be disclosed, lest the Chinese reverse engineer mein sides

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on May 19, 2016, 07:34:14 am

Insulting him does not improve situation in any way. There is  medieval religious dictator right next to europe, who can do whatever he wants, and only thing europe can do about this is throw refined elegance of german humour in him. Meanwhile he holds his hand on the valve controlling refugee flow and gets paid by europe for not making everything worse.

If he's supposed to be controlling the flow he's not doing a good job, so what are German comedians even paying him for?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2016, 12:25:06 pm

The Turkish minister of transport, Binali Yildirim, has been selected to become the sole candidate for the position of chairman of Erdogan's AK party. As soon as he will be elected by the party congress next sunday, he will automatically also be granted the position of prime minister of Turkey, replacing Davutoglu, who was forced to resign.

In a speech after accepting his candidacy, he said that he "will do everything within his power to work in complete harmony and cooperation with our founder and leader, and with all the colleagues from the AK party, to reach the goals of our great Turkey". He continued to promise that he will exterminate every single last PKK member.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 19, 2016, 03:21:01 pm

turkey for police state when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 19, 2016, 03:31:23 pm

Kurdish state when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 19, 2016, 04:02:29 pm

The Kurds are not against Israel/Jews, so it doesn't matter that they already had an actual state in the past, are an actual antique ethnicity and have gone under an actual genocide, since it probably won't get them a state. That's why the first debated issue in the Syrian-Russia-Iran-Rebels "peace talks" was giving the Israeli Golan Heights to Syria.

Half a million people dead, whole religions are being driven out of the Middle East, millions of refugees pouring into Europe, millions will die by the effects of this war on Iraq's, Lebanon's, Jordan's and Syria's economy and more importantly, lack of ability to address the pressing issue of Desertification and depleting of water sources and the incompetent U.N, EU and Obama's administration waste time with BS about an extremely small region (compare it to the Western Sahara, or Crimea, for example) which even if Israel decides to give this little piece of land (which was, btw, purchased by Rotchshild and declared as part of the Jewish State in the Balfur declaration and the League of nations which the U.N promised to uphold upon its creation), who Israel is supposed to give it to? Assad, Hezbollah, Jhabat Al Nusra, Al Yarmuc brigades, Islamic State or the FSA? with this kind of mentality, the Kurds will not be getting a formal state. at best they might get a semi autonomy and maybe another semi genocide.

Back to that Egyptian Airliner, There are concerns that it was a terror attack which brought it down, which is both surprising and frightening because it means a bomb managed to slip under De Gaul's airport security checks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 19, 2016, 04:30:16 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on May 19, 2016, 04:02:29 pm

Back to that Egyptian Airliner, There are concerns that it was a terror attack which brought it down, which is both surprising and frightening because it means a bomb managed to slip under De Gaul's airport security checks.

Yeah, if there was a bomb, it has massive implications. I don't know if some passengers and bags stayed onboard after another stop or what though. Actually, it was going back to Cairo after a trip from it, so, most likely not.

Also, apparently the 'wreckage' that they found wasn't actually from the plane, or even A plane. So, looks like junk in the Mediterranean (which is FAR smaller than the Indian) is going to complicate the search....

The plane had also done some strange swerves and maneuvers including a sudden drop in altitude and a 360 turn, so, something happened.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2016, 05:15:13 pm

Yeah, finding that plane and the remains of it's passengers between the thousands of refugee corpses and sunken boats would be like searching for a needle in a stack of needles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 19, 2016, 05:32:38 pm

Not to mention all the ships that have sunk in the Mediterranean over the last, what, 6,000 years at least....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 19, 2016, 05:54:55 pm

Tfw the dead sea is literal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2016, 08:46:51 am

The Dead Sea already was literal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 20, 2016, 01:59:27 pm

Turkey passed a new law today which removes immunity from legal prosecution for members of parliament. 376 out of 550 members of parliament voted in favour, which means the law passed and does not need a referendum. Only thing left to do is for Erdogan to put his signature under it.

The opposition has been warning that if passed, this law will be used to persecute any member of parliament that sympathises with Kurds.
According to press agenct Associated Press, 138 members of parliament from the pro-Kurdish opposition party HDP, and the centrum-left CHP are at risk of being persecuted now.

The leader of HDP has already announced that he will fight the new law in the Constitutional Court (which is kinda pointless, with Erdogan's history of calling the constitutional court's verdicts illegal).

The initiative for the new law came from Erdogan's AKP, after the president had accused HDP of being a political branch of the PKK.
Erdogan has called out for the arrest of HDP party members on grounds of involvement in terrorism multiple times now, and it looks like this new law will remove any obstacles left to actually start doing so.
Before the parliamentary vote, Erdogan said "the people do not want criminal delagates in parliament".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/turkse-parlementsleden-kunnen-voortaan-worden-vervolgd~a4304629/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/turkse-parlementsleden-kunnen-voortaan-worden-vervolgd~a4304629/)

In other news, Dutch customs dun goofed. They seized two works of art made by the Bolivian artist Gastón Ugalde. The art was made from coca leaves, which technically is an illegal drug.
The artist however had gone to court, and asked a judge to pass verdict to save the art.

The judge ruled that the art was wrongfully considered as drugs. The layer of vernish over it made it impossible to be used as such.
Alas, the judge's verdict came to late.

When the court informed customs that they should release the art back to the artist, they found out that the works of art had been burned in the incinerator.

Gastón Ugalde is a prominent artist from the Andes mountains. His nickname is Andean Warhol. His art, which has coca leaves as base material, is exhibited all around the globe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 20, 2016, 05:33:48 pm

Pffff, why doesn't he just outlaw all other parties straight away.


One party rule here we come!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 20, 2016, 06:42:15 pm

I'm more concerned about why MPs were immune in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on May 20, 2016, 06:49:05 pm

We have a similar idiocy in Ukraine. Even if MP will open fire with a machinegun we need to get approval of the parliament to detain him and another approval to put him on trial.
 
For the past ~20 years every party on every elections promise to remove this immunity but somehow they never have enough votes...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 20, 2016, 07:12:17 pm

There is some immunity over here, in the sense that only the supreme court can judge federal politicians like congressmen and ministers. I actually asked a lawyer (public defender, I think is the correct translation) I am acquainted with about it, and the idea is to prevent some minor judge from the ass-end of nowhere from trying to arrest the president. Considering the I think 3 times some judge from the ass-end of nowhere tried to block whatsapp in the country, it may be a good idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 20, 2016, 07:22:19 pm

Pretty much that, yeah - it prevents the courts (or everyone who's willing to make wrongful accusations) from interfering with the political process in an undesirable manner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2016, 12:13:38 am

Undesirable on account of whom?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 12:14:28 am

Politicians, probably

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2016, 12:16:57 am

Wunderbar

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 21, 2016, 03:48:38 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2016, 12:13:38 am

Undesirable on account of whom?

The three branches of the government are supposed to be independent. Trying to mess with that by making some branch stronger than others (like allowing executive branch to arrest at will every member of legislation one) is bad juju, because it causes concentration of power (Erdogan doesn't like this particular law-maker? to jail with ye!), and that causes dictatorships. Dictatorships are bad, mmkay?

Turkey is going to become one quite soon, anyway, at this rate. One does not simply mass arrest people on Internet for calling the President "Gollum" in a democracy, you know. How many journalists are in Turkey's jails, anyway? I've heard it was some inane number. Military is going to support anyone who allows them to massacre the Kurds at will, and Erdogan so far was their biggest fan. Yes, Turkey is quite certainly going to become a dictatorship, if nothing changes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 04:28:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 21, 2016, 03:48:38 am

The three branches of the government are supposed to be independent. Trying to mess with that by making some branch stronger than others (like allowing executive branch to arrest at will every member of legislation one) is bad juju

Why the hell would you give the executive branch judicial power? That goes in the hands of the courts, who should be able to arrest politicians who break the law. President included.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 21, 2016, 05:13:01 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 04:28:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 21, 2016, 03:48:38 am

The three branches of the government are supposed to be independent. Trying to mess with that by making some branch stronger than others (like allowing executive branch to arrest at will every member of legislation one) is bad juju

Why the hell would you give the executive branch judicial power? That goes in the hands of the courts, who should be able to arrest politicians who break the law. President included.

1) Should've said "judicial branch".
2) If you' haven't noticed, Erdogan wants to jail his opposition for talking about Kurds in a vaguely positive manner. I think once country has laws like these, the only thing that prevents it from descending into dictatorship immediately is parliamentary immunity, and that has just been removed, as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 05:31:13 am

I'm not seeing the connection between "Erdogan wants to do X" and "X will happen" unless the country already is a dictatorship

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 21, 2016, 05:47:53 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 05:31:13 am

I'm not seeing the connection between "Erdogan wants to do X" and "X will happen" unless the country already is a dictatorship

By saying "Erdogan wants to do X", I've meant that "There are laws passed by Erdogan's government that have the effect of doing X". It's not a dictatorship, yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 21, 2016, 08:19:23 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 21, 2016, 05:31:13 am

I'm not seeing the connection between "Erdogan wants to do X" and "X will happen" unless the country already is a dictatorship

It has already stated by Erdogan himself before the bill passed that it will be used to persecute Kurdish HDP members.

Since members of parliament who are in jail can't vote, that's pretty darn handy if you want to get rid of the opposition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on May 21, 2016, 08:46:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 20, 2016, 01:59:27 pm

His nickname is Andean Warhol.

I see what they did there...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 21, 2016, 09:03:52 am

The deal with Turkey about transferring newly arrived refugees from Greece back to Turkey has become even less workable.

A special appeal committee from the Greek high court has ruled in favour of a Syrian refugee who had appealed against deportation.
The committee has declared that Turkey is not a safe country, and according to the Guardian, they stated that refugees in Turkey are not treated according to the Convention of Geneva.
They have declared the refugee's deportation order void, and have ordered the justice department to start the refugee's asylum procedure anew (which will take many months).
The verdict can have big consequences for the tens of thousands of similar refugee cases in the country.


tl;dr: Greek appeal court forbids deportation of refugee to Turkey
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/syrier-vecht-gedwongen-terugkeer-naar-turkije-met-succes-aan~a4304868/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/syrier-vecht-gedwongen-terugkeer-naar-turkije-met-succes-aan~a4304868/)

In related news: Human Rights Watch estimates that of the about 1 million Syrian refugee children in Turkey, only 325000 go to school. The rest are put to work in the textile and shoe industries, to help support their families.
For a change, my newspaper has the article in english: http://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/syrian-children-refugees-are-put-to-work-en-masse-in-turkish-factories~a4304700/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/syrian-children-refugees-are-put-to-work-en-masse-in-turkish-factories~a4304700/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on May 22, 2016, 03:20:40 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html)

Quote

According to the Ministry of Defence, British soldiers have trained the armed forces of Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burma, Burundi, China, Colombia, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Zimbabwe – despite the human rights records of those countries.

why

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 22, 2016, 03:34:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 21, 2016, 09:03:52 am

tl;dr: Greek appeal court forbids deportation of refugee to Turkey

Greece what the fuck is this how your revenge against Europe looks like

Quote from: SirQuiamus on May 22, 2016, 03:20:40 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html)

Quote

According to the Ministry of Defence, British soldiers have trained the armed forces of Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burma, Burundi, China, Colombia, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Zimbabwe – despite the human rights records of those countries.

why

No Russia on the list? I guess Rusland barbarians are already too proficient at pillaging for Brits to teach them anything new...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ghazkull on May 22, 2016, 05:45:31 am

Now, now you had a joint exercise with them in in the 1940s that should last you at least for another 50 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 23, 2016, 07:03:57 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on May 22, 2016, 03:20:40 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/britain-trains-soldiers-for-most-regimes-on-its-own-human-rights-abuse-watchlist-a7041086.html)

Quote

According to the Ministry of Defence, British soldiers have trained the armed forces of Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burma, Burundi, China, Colombia, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Zimbabwe – despite the human rights records of those countries.

why

Because you don't help other nations progress by smugly chiding them into being enlightened liberals, you do so by building a stable state, move to transparency, development and anti-corruption, then move to franchisement - each step must be taken, unless you want to jump right into Muslim Brotherhood or cheeki bandits with failed states

Also I would presume China gives some Official somewhere lots of shekels in exchange for the training, and they're not our neighbour so there's little conflict of interest in doing so

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on May 24, 2016, 05:31:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 23, 2016, 07:03:57 pm

Because you don't help other nations progress by smugly chiding them into being enlightened liberals, you do so by building a stable state, move to transparency, development and anti-corruption, then move to franchisement - each step must be taken, unless you want to jump right into Muslim Brotherhood or cheeki bandits with failed states

Also I would presume China gives some Official somewhere lots of shekels in exchange for the training, and they're not our neighbour so there's little conflict of interest in doing so

The best way to get checki brecki heart-eating bandits is to train them youself: provide guns and training to "moderate rebels" like FSA ISIS and Al-Nusra, and sit back and watch the fireworks. Training "government" forces in unstable toilet countries (Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen...) that don't even have anything resembling a proper government is ... pretty much the same thing, no?

Also, it's just funny that UK is training soldiers for their #8 trading partner (China) right under the noses of their #1 trading partner (USA). I don't understand it because I'm not a scheming politician, but it's exactly what I'd expect out of scheming politicians anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2016, 12:07:26 pm

Nah the most confusing thing is probably training Yemen and Saudi Arabia's troops. Training both sides of the conflict... What? Likewise I don't support training checki brecki heart-eating bandits, I support the training of state security forces since you can at least negotiate with them and force them to step down when things calm down. Given how Central Africa is getting pretty fucked up by bandits being trained/supplied from Libya (sadly some of the bandits are fielding better weapons than Central African state militaries) they have to be contained before they spread even further and fuck up more of Africa
It's either that or send our own troops to fight, and we sure as hell don't have the manpower or shekels or support to take over the world so that's a pass. Not sure why you're surprised we train China, we're not doing it under the nose of the USA but under the direction of the USA (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/07/23/how-the-u-s-is-training-chinas-military-while-inching-toward-conflict/). 5 eyes m8y, we're not at war with China, our interests align very well and the only reason we can't be outright allies is because we don't want to insult Japan, or Korea, or Malaysia or Taiwan, or even Americans, or deal with infinite uproar from labour about training godless commies

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on May 24, 2016, 12:18:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2016, 12:07:26 pm

we're not doing it under the nose of the USA but under the direction of the USA (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/07/23/how-the-u-s-is-training-chinas-military-while-inching-toward-conflict/).

well bugger me sideways and call me grandpa

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2016, 04:54:47 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2016, 12:07:26 pm

Nah the most confusing thing is probably training Yemen and Saudi Arabia's troops. Training both sides of the conflict... What?

Well, the Saudi aren't fighting the Yemeni government, they're fighting the Houthi no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 25, 2016, 05:16:49 am

I don't know anything about the Houthi but I support them on the basis that they're fighting SA

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2016, 06:03:49 am

Your enemy's enemy is not your friend:

Quote from: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthis

The group's flag reads as following: "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam".

Fighting SA is a bad reason for support, ISIS is at war with them too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 25, 2016, 06:14:00 am

No, I support ISIS when they're fighting SA as well. Maybe then we can get some Zionist propaganda (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceGqB4raTZo) catching on, or something.

Anything that has a slight chance of making the whole place less of an amoral hellhole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on May 25, 2016, 06:19:00 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 25, 2016, 05:16:49 am

I don't know anything about the Houthi but I support them on the basis that they're fighting SA

Quote

The group's flag reads as following: "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam."

they have anti-imperialist/progressive potential

I think the situation in Yemen might be a bit more complicated than "Houthis against Saudis." For example, I just learned that there's an Australian guy leading an army of UAE special forces and mercenaries from all over the world, including Australia, Britain, Colombia, France, etc. (http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mercenaries-charge-uae-forces-fighting-yemen-764309832)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2016, 07:06:34 am

Yeah, because the Arab armies sucks, so they resorted to only using air power and hiring merc. That guy is fighting as part of the Saudi coalition against the Houthis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 25, 2016, 08:08:16 am

Why should they risk their soldier's lives when they can hire an infidel to fight and die for them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 25, 2016, 08:09:40 am

since when are UAE "infidels"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2016, 10:28:38 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 25, 2016, 08:09:40 am

since when are UAE "infidels"

The aussie they hire would be. But Vilanat, do you seriously suggest that SA give a single damn about shedding muslim blood? Because that's a very, very strange position to hold. But yeah, the Emirate's population is made of 80-90% foreign workers (around a million citizens). It's hardly surprising their military is partly made of foreigners too. If they were only recruiting from their own citizen, they could field at most a few thousands troops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 25, 2016, 11:54:57 am

The royals don't care about anyone, muslim or not, as befitting most of those who have been raised a billionaires and above all others.

Nobody in the UAE will shed a tear over Columbian or Australian casualties even if they fought under and for the UAE, however, if a Bani yas member would have been killed it would make the front page in Dubai and Abu dhabi and people will start to seriously question their campaign in Yemen. If a member from a lesser tribe would have died, people will start question the families hirarchies.

Jordan gave a nice precedent. Nobody questioned the participation against ISIS nor mentioned if an American killed at it but the second a jordanian pilot went down, the MB affiliates started a heavy and popular campaign to pull out, while questioning the King's authority, That's why he immediately went taking photos in a flight dress.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 26, 2016, 02:34:21 am

Yeah, make sense. Same reason the US is so fond of security contractors too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 26, 2016, 04:27:33 am

Is there anyone else that feels that Hillary sounds like a parrot?

She is always sooooo PC.

She answers questions and speeches like the stereotypical politician, always saying what is "expected" of her.

I never get the notion that she is actually expressing an opinion.

edit: damn, wanted to post in the american politics thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 26, 2016, 04:35:43 am

Probably should go in the ameripol thread so mainiac can rip into you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on May 26, 2016, 12:29:53 pm

France in chaos
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36385778

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/24/france-petrol-chaos-british-families-left-stranded-in-their-cars/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 26, 2016, 01:05:29 pm

french revolution when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 26, 2016, 01:19:06 pm

eat the rich

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 26, 2016, 03:08:16 pm

It's easy to see why they're so pissed. With the strikes concentrated in the energy and transportation sectors they actually have some leverage too. That they would use the state of emergency following a terrorist attack from months ago to do things like remove protections for workers without Parliamentary approval is pretty worrying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 26, 2016, 03:37:35 pm

Tbh it just looks like normal France

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 26, 2016, 03:43:10 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 26, 2016, 03:37:35 pm

Tbh it just looks like normal France

Well, you know, it's not a normal day in France if someone's not being guillotined.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on May 26, 2016, 04:17:49 pm

Honestly shit like this should be normal anywhere, not something frowned upon. When was the last time some other big power folk got up in arms about workers rights being stripped or weakened?

This shit right here (the protests and strikes mind, not the shitheads breaking stuff amidst the chaos) is democracy at it's finest, people exerting their will to have their goverment act in their best interests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 26, 2016, 04:18:36 pm

Quote from: Teneb on May 26, 2016, 03:43:10 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 26, 2016, 03:37:35 pm

Tbh it just looks like normal France

Well, you know, it's not a normal day in France if someone's not being guillotined.

I was referring to the strikes, they only behead people for religion of peace now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 26, 2016, 06:14:29 pm

Quote from: Jopax on May 26, 2016, 04:17:49 pm

Honestly shit like this should be normal anywhere, not something frowned upon. When was the last time some other big power folk got up in arms about workers rights being stripped or weakened?

Honestly, France is kinda too far in the opposite direction - the workers have too much protection and it becomes a nightmare to actually make them productive. IIRC one of Hollande's things is trying to cut back on the level of silliness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 27, 2016, 03:08:58 am

Quote from: Baffler on May 26, 2016, 03:08:16 pm

It's easy to see why they're so pissed. With the strikes concentrated in the energy and transportation sectors they actually have some leverage too. That they would use the state of emergency following a terrorist attack from months ago to do things like remove protections for workers without Parliamentary approval is pretty worrying.

You're mixing two things. The state of emergency is not the device used to ram down the law through Parliament. The thing they used to do that is Article 49.3 of the French Constitution, which allows the government to engage its responsability on a law. Basically, the law is passed without a vote in the Assembly (the lower house of the Parliament). If the Assembly don't want the law to pass , it then has 24 hours to pass a motion of no confidence in the government, toppling it.

It's really powerful when you have internal opposition to a law within your own party: your MPs have to let the law pass, or topple the government. The end result is that in the fifty years of its existence, 49.3 has been used around 40 time and no government was toppled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 27, 2016, 09:15:00 am

Sounds like a way to push through some hugely unpopular laws. 24 hours? That's like... no time.

Ah well, sounds like the gov'ment are getting everything they deserve with the strikes (though the violence is unnecessary)

I hope it continues into the Euros, I imagine that would be super embarrassing for the Frenchies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 10:14:21 am

Quote from: hector13 on May 27, 2016, 09:15:00 am

Sounds like a way to push through some hugely unpopular laws. 24 hours? That's like... no time.

Ah well, sounds like the gov'ment are getting everything they deserve with the strikes (though the violence is unnecessary)

I hope it continues into the Euros, I imagine that would be super embarrassing for the Frenchies.

No one ever gets what they properly deserve m8

Quote

"Those in jobs who already have various forms of labour protection are keen to preserve them, obviously," he says.

"But, to use a Richard Nixon term, there's a silent majority outside which would probably quite welcome a relaxation of the firm labour laws because they would have a better chance of getting a job."

France has a "longstanding view that the worker must be protected," says Prof Begg, "but if you were the unemployed youth of North African origin in one of the Paris banlieues, you might think it's totally alien to what you expect.

"You don't get a job under any circumstances, so the idea that the jobs there are are so heavily protected is hardly appealing."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36387492

Lmao racist French people trying to protect their jobs from Africans, counter riot wen?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on May 27, 2016, 12:22:21 pm

Belgium joins the protests

http://www.euronews.com/nocomment/2016/05/25/protest-against-austerity-in-belgium/

https://www.rt.com/news/344210-police-clash-protesters-brussels/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 12:36:09 pm

>rt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 03:42:16 pm

http://www.shz.de/regionales/hamburg/christliche-trauerfeier-fuer-is-anhaenger-in-hamburg-sorgt-fuer-zuendstoff-id13801526.html
Lmao Germans giving ISIS fighters funerals

Better than rehab I spose

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 27, 2016, 06:27:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 03:42:16 pm

http://www.shz.de/regionales/hamburg/christliche-trauerfeier-fuer-is-anhaenger-in-hamburg-sorgt-fuer-zuendstoff-id13801526.html
Lmao Germans giving ISIS fighters funerals

Better than rehab I spose

Honestly, I'd probably do something similar. More for the memorialising than mourning though. I'm weirdly sentimental about people being forgotten or disrespected after death.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 06:45:11 pm

I'd not, I find it humorously appropriate that annihilators of history be forgotten sooner than the rest of us. Fuck the guy who burnt down the Temple of Artemis, and fuck these guys who burnt down the people and relics of Palmyra. If you join the people who desecrated the war graves and ancient burial grounds of those there before them, they deserve less than unmarked ditches in Syria, and they certainly don't deserve full burial in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 27, 2016, 08:06:35 pm

Not exactly Europol, but The IMF (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm) has released this thing. The most important points seem to be that open international investment (probably) creates boom-bust cycles, and that austerity both causes long term economic damage and doesn't seem to even be all that helpful in the short term. It goes on to say that both of these things definitely contribute to economic inequality, which is itself damaging to the economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 08:07:36 pm

IMF is big EU buddy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 27, 2016, 08:17:11 pm

Quote from: Baffler on May 27, 2016, 08:06:35 pm

Not exactly Europol, but The IMF (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm) has released this thing. The most important points seem to be that open international investment (probably) creates boom-bust cycles, and that austerity both causes long term economic damage and doesn't seem to even be all that helpful in the short term. It goes on to say that both of these things definitely contribute to economic inequality, which is itself damaging to the economy.

The socialist in me is cheering. I hope this sort of thing catches on, but obviously that's not happening any time soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 28, 2016, 08:29:22 am

Quote from: hector13 on May 27, 2016, 09:15:00 am

Sounds like a way to push through some hugely unpopular laws. 24 hours? That's like... no time.

Ah well, sounds like the gov'ment are getting everything they deserve with the strikes (though the violence is unnecessary)

I hope it continues into the Euros, I imagine that would be super embarrassing for the Frenchies.

The no confidence procedure is also speed up in that case, so it's not actually that little, and it's generally used as a last resort. But yeah, the French system give a lot of power to the executive, and that's an exemple.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 28, 2016, 09:13:58 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 27, 2016, 06:27:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2016, 03:42:16 pm

http://www.shz.de/regionales/hamburg/christliche-trauerfeier-fuer-is-anhaenger-in-hamburg-sorgt-fuer-zuendstoff-id13801526.html
Lmao Germans giving ISIS fighters funerals

Better than rehab I spose

Honestly, I'd probably do something similar. More for the memorialising than mourning though. I'm weirdly sentimental about people being forgotten or disrespected after death.

These people are not tragic or misguided figures. These people have the complete knowledge of IS deeds as IS is one of the few organisations that does not hide its crimes but instead revels in them.

These people say yes to the beheading of "infidels" ,the murder of random civilians in terrorist attacks and IS other crimes.

They give their full commitment to the destruction of our way of life and replacing it with a totalitarian caliphate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on May 28, 2016, 09:54:43 am

German Opposition Leader Attacked With Cake Over Migrants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMm9R30odMk

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-opposition-leader-attacked-cake-migrants-39448156

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 11:19:11 am

Quote

A German opposition leader has had a cake shoved in her face at a party meeting — an apparent protest against her position that not all refugees can come to Germany.

An activist threw the cake Saturday at Left Party parliamentary co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht in Magdeburg, the dpa news agency reported. A group calling itself "Anti-Fascist Initiative 'Cake for Misanthropists'" distributed flyers pointing to Wagenknecht's refugee comments as the motive.

Wagenknecht has highlighted limits to Germany's ability to take in migrants, saying that "not all refugees can come to Germany." That has put her at odds with others in her party.

ayyyy antifa lmao cake is a lie x----DDDDD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on May 28, 2016, 12:16:23 pm

So, during this KSW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konfrontacja_Sztuk_Walki) fight, during Aziz Karaoglu apperance (https://youtu.be/hhZvrlZdivw?t=60) nasheed Naam Qatil (https://youtu.be/bYvMVF5zkwQ?t=15) was played (not the first time Karaoglu used it, and he is in general connected with fanaticism), which is coincidentally an unformal hymn of Al-Qaeda and parts of it lyrics mention "pouring bullets on belt of zionizm" and "preparing forces of truth against unbelivers"... apparently playing this song (songs that propagate racism and stuff in general) in public is forbidden in Poland.
Aziz lost despite everyone (including his opponent) agreeing his performance was much better, and he should have won, which makes people wonder if the music had something to do with that...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 28, 2016, 03:56:18 pm

Quote from: Antioch on May 28, 2016, 09:13:58 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 27, 2016, 06:27:52 pm

Honestly, I'd probably do something similar. More for the memorialising than mourning though. I'm weirdly sentimental about people being forgotten or disrespected after death.

These people are not tragic or misguided figures. These people have the complete knowledge of IS deeds as IS is one of the few organisations that does not hide its crimes but instead revels in them.

These people say yes to the beheading of "infidels" ,the murder of random civilians in terrorist attacks and IS other crimes.

They give their full commitment to the destruction of our way of life and replacing it with a totalitarian caliphate.

Yeah they're terrorists, that's sorta their thing. What's your point here?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 11:19:11 am

Quote

A German opposition leader has had a cake shoved in her face at a party meeting — an apparent protest against her position that not all refugees can come to Germany.

An activist threw the cake Saturday at Left Party parliamentary co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht in Magdeburg, the dpa news agency reported. A group calling itself "Anti-Fascist Initiative 'Cake for Misanthropists'" distributed flyers pointing to Wagenknecht's refugee comments as the motive.

Wagenknecht has highlighted limits to Germany's ability to take in migrants, saying that "not all refugees can come to Germany." That has put her at odds with others in her party.

ayyyy antifa lmao cake is a lie x----DDDDD

Oh geez, there's multiple million refugees and they want all of them in Germany? That doesn't sound like a terrible idea at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 04:39:40 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 28, 2016, 03:56:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 11:19:11 am

Quote

A German opposition leader has had a cake shoved in her face at a party meeting — an apparent protest against her position that not all refugees can come to Germany.
An activist threw the cake Saturday at Left Party parliamentary co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht in Magdeburg, the dpa news agency reported. A group calling itself "Anti-Fascist Initiative 'Cake for Misanthropists'" distributed flyers pointing to Wagenknecht's refugee comments as the motive.
Wagenknecht has highlighted limits to Germany's ability to take in migrants, saying that "not all refugees can come to Germany." That has put her at odds with others in her party.

ayyyy antifa lmao cake is a lie x----DDDDD

Oh geez, there's multiple million refugees and they want all of them in Germany? That doesn't sound like a terrible idea at all.

What don't you like about it? Germany should always be open to refugees. It's important at times like this to disregard practicality and never forget that humanity is open borders

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2016, 05:58:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 04:39:40 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on May 28, 2016, 03:56:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 11:19:11 am

Quote

A German opposition leader has had a cake shoved in her face at a party meeting — an apparent protest against her position that not all refugees can come to Germany.
An activist threw the cake Saturday at Left Party parliamentary co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht in Magdeburg, the dpa news agency reported. A group calling itself "Anti-Fascist Initiative 'Cake for Misanthropists'" distributed flyers pointing to Wagenknecht's refugee comments as the motive.
Wagenknecht has highlighted limits to Germany's ability to take in migrants, saying that "not all refugees can come to Germany." That has put her at odds with others in her party.

ayyyy antifa lmao cake is a lie x----DDDDD

Oh geez, there's multiple million refugees and they want all of them in Germany? That doesn't sound like a terrible idea at all.

What don't you like about it? Germany should always be open to refugees. It's important at times like this to disregard practicality and never forget that humanity is open borders

A world without borders, where people migrate not for their ideologies, but for themselves. Outer Germania.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 28, 2016, 06:03:48 pm

Germany <3< refugees

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 06:05:56 pm

3deep5me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Spehss _ on May 28, 2016, 06:21:37 pm

Quote from: miljan on May 28, 2016, 09:54:43 am

German Opposition Leader Attacked With Cake Over Migrants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMm9R30odMk

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-opposition-leader-attacked-cake-migrants-39448156

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 28, 2016, 11:19:11 am

Quote

A German opposition leader has had a cake shoved in her face at a party meeting — an apparent protest against her position that not all refugees can come to Germany.

An activist threw the cake Saturday at Left Party parliamentary co-leader Sahra Wagenknecht in Magdeburg, the dpa news agency reported. A group calling itself "Anti-Fascist Initiative 'Cake for Misanthropists'" distributed flyers pointing to Wagenknecht's refugee comments as the motive.

Wagenknecht has highlighted limits to Germany's ability to take in migrants, saying that "not all refugees can come to Germany." That has put her at odds with others in her party.

ayyyy antifa lmao cake is a lie x----DDDDD

That's some radical protesting Antifa's doing. Wew. I used to be against open boarders but after seeing a politician get a cake thrown at them I am now pro-no-boarders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 07:40:47 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/z8A7Ver.jpg)

I have always supported cultural enrichment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 29, 2016, 07:53:02 am

Sharia laws might add to cultural diversity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 29, 2016, 08:02:37 am

It's okay, most judges are rich, old, bitter white guys so it'll balance out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 08:11:41 am

In this case, promoting European cultural diversity is more of a code for "letting the french continue to protect their cultural industries".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 29, 2016, 10:55:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

I personally live in Europe dominated by the brutal spirit of France, where everyone has to speak the exact French language with Parisian accent or else suffer from patriotic French riot-citizens deciding that your car would make a good French flaming wreck when they go on their next strike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 10:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Nah, it's you who have spent too much time reading meme and have forgotten how Eurocrats actually speak.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 29, 2016, 11:24:06 am

They should have added a law that says dubbing foreign content should be illegal. what's wrong with simple subtitles?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on May 29, 2016, 11:28:26 am

The attack on Wagenknecht was not because she said we shouldn't take in everyone (I am a bit surprised that people even think that somehow every European country can somehow take in every refugee at the same time – that's some serious magic right there), but because she was sympathetic to the idea of an upper limit.

Yeah, of course there is absolutely no difference between the two things, because all that talk about distribution of refugees throughout Europe is totally non-existent and generally all of this is totally straightforward in the first place, so I guess olololololo libprogresstards or something.

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 10:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Nah, it's you who have spent too much time reading meme and have forgotten how Eurocrats actually speak.

+1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 11:33:08 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 07:40:47 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/z8A7Ver.jpg)

I have always supported cultural enrichment

I mean, just read this press release (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/navracsics/announcements/promoting-cultural-diversity-innovation-and-social-cohesion-new-creative-europe-programme_en) to see what the Commission means by "promoting European cultural diversity". Spoiler alert, it's not the same thing as what memetic nativist usually talk about in their internet cesspools.

Take this for exemple:

Quote

Or take "The Faces Behind the Nose - Promoting Hospital Clowning as a Recognized Genre of Performing Arts". This project spans Austria, Croatia, Germany, Hungary, Slovakia and Slovenia. It focuses on training and exchanging artists for hospital clowningand it helps them to move to different locations and perform in countries other than their own.

Sure, it sounds like the worst waste of money ever devised, but it has nothing to do with replacing european population with dirty foreigners who aren't even white.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 29, 2016, 11:54:07 am

Quote

Hospital Clowning

the more you know the more you wish you didn't know

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 12:00:10 pm

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 10:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Nah, it's you who have spent too much time reading meme and have forgotten how Eurocrats actually speak.

You have forgotten I choose to satirize cultural enrichment terminology explicitly on how Progressives speak Sheb, seems quite quaint how quickly you glossed over the requirement for video platforms to protect viewers from "irresponsible" "hatred."

Quote

Language serves as a useful measure of our diversity. Today, the European Union functions with 24 official languages, more than 60 regional and minority languages and more than 120 migrant languages. Since I am also the Commissioner responsible for multilingualism, allow me to say, with some pride, that the Tower of Babel still stands tall in 2014.
But of course all of this presents a challenge, and it lies in striking the right balance between the respect for cultural diversity and the construction of a shared European identity – an identity that does not replace the sense of national belonging, but adds a new layer to the multiple identities of our citizens. The search for this balance is part of what we call intercultural dialogue. It is an integral part of the European project, and it has been so right from the start.
Step by step, the European founding fathers – yes, we have borrowed the phrase from the United States – worked to build a community of people, and not only of states or administrations, in order to make peace an irreversible feature of Europe.

The Schuman Declaration in 1950 described this goal in precise words. Pooling the production of coal and steel was seen as “the leaven from which may grow a wider and deeper community”... the first concrete foundation of a European federation indispensable to the preservation of peace.”
Jean Monnet said it very clearly: we are not federating states, we are uniting people.
In 1992 the European Union's Maastricht Treaty introduced specific provisions on education and culture which have since become fields for EU action. The Treaty made clear that the EU should support cooperation among Member States but by no means replace national 'competences' or powers.
In the case of culture, the Treaty says that "the Union shall contribute to the flowering of the cultures of the Member States, while respecting their national and regional diversity and at the same time bringing the common cultural heritage to the fore".
Considering how far education and culture shape and define national identities, this was a radical step, and one which still occasionally causes surprise.
In education, such a breakthrough was in large measure due to the success of the Erasmus student exchange programme in promoting contacts between our people. By allowing students to get to know each other and develop cross-border relations and friendships, Erasmus greatly helped the creation of a European identity.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-165_en.htm?locale=en

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 11:33:08 am

Sure, it sounds like the worst waste of money ever devised, but it has nothing to do with replacing european population with dirty foreigners who aren't even white.

It astounds me that no matter how many pages of thought I present I shall always be pigeonholed here.

Quote

If Europe’s big test in 2015 was the refugee crisis, integrating the newly arrived will be 2016’s. This will require the type of Wir schaffen das (we can do it) message that German chancellor Angela Merkel has been sending out. The refugee crisis has highlighted a historical fact: Europe’s cultural, ethnic and religious diversity will increase in a transformative way in the years and decades to come. Which makes it a good time also to open a healthier more cool-headed debate about our collective identity.

Sudden surges in migration pose a real challenge, but it’s worth remembering that we have been here before. Think of the huge population transfers after the world wars, or the arrival of immigrant workers in the 1950s and 60s – to France and Britain from former colonies, or to Germany from Turkey.

What is new is merely the pace of the inflow and the dramatic circumstances under which people are being driven to Europe. The underlying questions remain more or less the same, though: how to accept difference while upholding democratic governance and social standards. How to define national identities within a larger collective project of mutually shared values – key pillars of what Europe is supposed to be about.
Much is said about integrating new Muslim populations, and that question has become increasingly fraught by being unhelpfully conflated with the fear of terrorism. If we step back a little, it’s striking that the debate last year mostly focused on managing flows and obsessing about security. For some, the urgent human imperative was to save people from drowning at sea. For others, it was the xenophobic rush to put up fences and push families away with police dogs and truncheons. Europeans suddenly saw both the worst and the best in themselves and in their politicians.

But none of this fully addresses the longer-term issue of how a hopeful future can be built on the new diversity. Today around 7% of the European Union’s population was born outside the EU. More than a million refugees and migrants arrived in Europe in 2015, but that’s a tiny proportion – less than 0.2% – of the EU’s total population. Still, diversity will continue to increase in most European states because of the scale of the pressures driving people out of their homelands. As in the 19th century (the first globalisation), this current one is described as an age of migration – except that this time it isn’t flowing out of Europe (to the Americas) but to Europe (from the Middle East, Africa and Asia).

Diversity is dealt with in different ways across Europe. The British or German “multicultural” models are contrasted with the French “assimilationist” approach, but problems exist everywhere. Long admired for their open-arms policies, Scandinavian countries have started to rethink. Sweden has even brought in identity checks on travellers from Denmark.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/05/europes-citizens-need-start-debate-diversity

I'm bored of this all, people asking me to defend those who give nothing worth defending. Inshallah m8s you won't be missed and the dialogue will finally be able to move on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 30, 2016, 03:12:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 12:00:10 pm

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 10:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Nah, it's you who have spent too much time reading meme and have forgotten how Eurocrats actually speak.

You have forgotten I choose to satirize cultural enrichment terminology explicitly on how Progressives speak Sheb, seems quite quaint how quickly you glossed over the requirement for video platforms to protect viewers from "irresponsible" "hatred."

Yeah, and your satire fail because you fail to understand how Eurocrats speak. Take that thing you quoted:

Quote

But of course all of this presents a challenge, and it lies in striking the right balance between the respect for cultural diversity and the construction of a shared European identity – an identity that does not replace the sense of national belonging, but adds a new layer to the multiple identities of our citizens. The search for this balance is part of what we call intercultural dialogue. It is an integral part of the European project, and it has been so right from the start.

The cultural diversity referred to is specifically the diversity of culture that already exist within the EU.

As for the think about hate speech, well, we shall see what it comes up to, but I'll agree it could be worrying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 30, 2016, 05:00:56 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 29, 2016, 11:54:07 am

Quote

Hospital Clowning

the more you know the more you wish you didn't know

Ill children getting some funny clowns is not that awful( unless statesman spends your money on that, and gets 80% of money in his pocket)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 30, 2016, 05:32:37 am

Pretty sure there was a study done on hospital clowns that found they did much more harm than good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 30, 2016, 08:58:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 30, 2016, 03:12:34 am

Yeah, and your satire fail because you fail to understand how Eurocrats speak. Take that thing you quoted:

Quote

But of course all of this presents a challenge, and it lies in striking the right balance between the respect for cultural diversity and the construction of a shared European identity – an identity that does not replace the sense of national belonging, but adds a new layer to the multiple identities of our citizens. The search for this balance is part of what we call intercultural dialogue. It is an integral part of the European project, and it has been so right from the start.

The cultural diversity referred to is specifically the diversity of culture that already exist within the EU.
As for the think about hate speech, well, we shall see what it comes up to, but I'll agree it could be worrying.

Hahaha you literally edited out the bit with the transformative migrant cultures, how you manage to look past reality is astounding

You know earlier how someone said people tend to focus on but one point of my points, then focus on one point to the exclusion of others within that to try and exploit a weakness without addressing any of my points? Well you've focused on cultural diversity, then tried switching track to homogenizing a European identity to migrant enrichment to cultural diversity all over again - ignoring it, a fucking mess of a way to address anything I said, especially since the point I was making was in regards to the EU proposing common speech regulation on all media platforms.

Whatever though, we can talk about cultural enrichment all over again. Do you want to go back to the ESI's cultural enrichment or the Bundestag's cultural enrichment or the Commission's cultural enrichment?
Did you sincerely take Eurocrats' word for it at face value when they first talked of multicultural experiments or cultural enrichment?

I guess fuck free speech if no one wants to even talk about that. Always white people this, white people that, first thing you focused on Sheb was cultural enrichment even though it was two pages of the EU proposing "common" speech regulation. Cannot stress this further enough. You need some enrichment m8, you're too focused on preserving whiteness

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 30, 2016, 09:29:35 am

That part about transformative migrant culture is from an unrelated Guardian columnist.

You point a EU Commission document which state that it want to protect European cultural diversity and prevent hate speech. I point out that in Eurojargon, protecting European cultural diversity doesn't mean whatever the hell you mean by cultural enrichment in your echo chamber, but that it means letting the states protect their cultural industry. I support my point by providing other press release speaking of cultural diversity, where it's clear the use has nothing to do with immigration. (Plus, I really liked that quote about hospital clowns).

You counter by providing two quotes. One from a member of the Commission, where diversity is used in the Eurojargon meaning (preserving national and regional culture by allowing protectionism in these areas), and one by some Guardian columnist that use it differently.

Since my argument was about the way European commission officials use the words "European cultural diversity", the quote from the journalist's op-ed is irrelevant, so I didn't address it.

Now, if you want to talk about how the commission's update to its regulation is a threat to free speech, why not. But then, why are you just posting a screenshot of a press release and commenting "I always supported cultural enrichment"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sinistar on May 30, 2016, 02:46:00 pm

You know, this current topic is kinda of interest to me and I'd gladly join discussion but it's late and I'm tired. So here's a plea to everyone not to try and suddenly start throwing too much random unrelated shit around that would cause the thread to get locked until I get back tomorrow. There will be cakes if you behave!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 30, 2016, 03:50:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on May 30, 2016, 09:29:35 am

That part about transformative migrant culture is from an unrelated Guardian columnist.

You're the one who keeps saying it's Eurocrats, I'm the one saying it's progressive, are we even talking about the same thing? No, of course not. You keep talking past me, the simple matter of the fact is that Europe has just been massively culturally enriched and this is a source of amusement for me. Unless of course you want to deny how enriched the EU is - of course given that 120 migrant languages are recognized here, I think that's a poor argument to make. Transformative change is upon you whether it's spoken by the Guardian or Volksrant. Or me for that matter. Heck, Merkel gave me that lovely quote about how Germoney is losing her social core. So many nice words! :D

Quote from: Sheb on May 30, 2016, 09:29:35 am

You point a EU Commission document which state that it want to protect European cultural diversity and prevent hate speech. I point out that in Eurojargon, protecting European cultural diversity doesn't mean whatever the hell you mean by cultural enrichment in your echo chamber, but that it means letting the states protect their cultural industry. I support my point by providing other press release speaking of cultural diversity, where it's clear the use has nothing to do with immigration. (Plus, I really liked that quote about hospital clowns).

Is Bay12 an echo chamber? Curious, as this is the only place where I use the term cultural enrichment. This is not jargon, these are euphemisms, just as harmonizing and enrichment are. It is the paradoxical process in which cultural diversity is enforced through a common regulation, a same uniform policy enforced against all European cultures for the sake of diversity which you are ignoring, because you are so focused on xenophobia and brown people that you are incapable of thinking in any other frame of mind. It is not about protecting European cultural diversity - or else they would not be regulated and controlled according to a uniform standard dictated by the European Union, it is once more about centralizing power. It is not about preventing 'hate speech,' but about punishing those who speak it by their definitions of hate across all media platforms - against once more immense power, which we have seen used in the Netherlands to punish those who shatpost about cultural enrichment. Both tools will be used to enforce the EU's popularity once more; we have seen how this was done in academia to create a European identity where once everyone had their own and how history itself was rewritten to create one European people. So now they propose a common cultural regulation to 'protect' European cultural diversity, by their definition of European which obviously places the European Union above diversity, and gives itself the power to punish and silence those it deems hateful with no oversight, even if it means using means of copyright to do so.
Though obviously none of that matters, because it's all about white people right? Honestly Sheb? Not even English, French, Germans, Poles, Italians e.t.c., they're all just white? That's not very diverse. In case I haven't made this clear enough even though it seems I joke about it more than enough, I'm not white, have no loyalty to skin pigmentation and far from worshiping Swedish phenotype carriers I find them a sad source of humour, standing for most all that destroys an idle and prosperous civilization. Barring the more unambitious taharrush lads, cultural enrichment brings with it new opportunities to erase the mistakes of whites past, and perhaps allow us to finally move past their insanity once they're taken down a peg.

Quote from: Sheb on December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 pm

You counter by providing two quotes. One from a member of the Commission, where diversity is used in the Eurojargon meaning (preserving national and regional culture by allowing protectionism in these areas), and one by some Guardian columnist that use it differently.

Quote

But of course all of this presents a challenge, and it lies in striking the right balance between the respect for cultural diversity and the construction of a shared European identity – an identity that does not replace the sense of national belonging, but adds a new layer to the multiple identities of our citizens. The search for this balance is part of what we call intercultural dialogue. It is an integral part of the European project, and it has been so right from the start.
Step by step, the European founding fathers – yes, we have borrowed the phrase from the United States – worked to build a community of people, and not only of states or administrations, in order to make peace an irreversible feature of Europe.

I don't know what this means to you, but this is not protectionism a la France le fromage, this is called assimilation.

Quote from: Sheb on December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 pm

Since my argument was about the way European commission officials use the words "European cultural diversity", the quote from the journalist's op-ed is irrelevant, so I didn't address it.

Well your argument is entirely irrelevant to everything I said and I still gave you the courtesy of a reply.

Quote from: Sheb on December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 pm

Now, if you want to talk about how the commission's update to its regulation is a threat to free speech, why not. But then, why are you just posting a screenshot of a press release and commenting "I always supported cultural enrichment"?

Because it's a self-effacing joke on how the EU regulating media platforms to ensure friendly and safe environments conducive to their agenda means all including myself will have to watch their tones and messages. The joke being the EU supports cultural enrichment, I support cultural enrichment and have always done so - thus the EU has no qualm with me and will not strike me with their common regulation. Underlined are the areas of concern that are friendly ways of saying seize control of media platforms and find as many mechanisms capable of controlling narratives and punishing individuals for speech we find dangerous. I assumed people would be able to read the press release and form their own judgements including those on the points underlined, as Bay12 is full of intellectuals and other shit.
These are my thought processes and for the terrible jokes thread, be it drier than the Sahara desert :|

Quote from: Sinistar on May 30, 2016, 02:46:00 pm

You know, this current topic is kinda of interest to me and I'd gladly join discussion but it's late and I'm tired. So here's a plea to everyone not to try and suddenly start throwing too much random unrelated shit around that would cause the thread to get locked until I get back tomorrow. There will be cakes if you behave!

Well, the thread's tone has gotten deadly serious - one wonders if this is an improvement.

Also general question to this thread's denizens, what do you all think of multilateralism?

*EDIT
I should also add, if I seem particularly bothersome, whilst writing this post I had a horrendous headache due to eating a curry which had half the day's salt intake in it. Was not a smart move on my part, and has probably taken a day off of my lifespan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 31, 2016, 04:25:59 am

Sorry, should have included that bant about not even white, seems to have triggered you. Nah, really, I shouldn't have.

But yeah, if you were more concerned about the hate speech enforcement part of the press release, you made a terrible job of making that clear. Because, well, as far as the use of diversity in that press release, I was right.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 pm
You counter by providing two quotes. One from a member of the Commission, where diversity is used in the Eurojargon meaning (preserving national and regional culture by allowing protectionism in these areas), and one by some Guardian columnist that use it differently.
Quote
But of course all of this presents a challenge, and it lies in striking the right balance between the respect for cultural diversity and the construction of a shared European identity – an identity that does not replace the sense of national belonging, but adds a new layer to the multiple identities of our citizens. The search for this balance is part of what we call intercultural dialogue. It is an integral part of the European project, and it has been so right from the start.
Step by step, the European founding fathers – yes, we have borrowed the phrase from the United States – worked to build a community of people, and not only of states or administrations, in order to make peace an irreversible feature of Europe.
I don't know what this means to you, but this is not protectionism a la France le fromage, this is called assimilation.

The Commission put out a "fact sheet (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-1895_en.htm)" along its press release. Cultural diversity shows up in the "How is European culture strengthened by the new Directive?" part, which concern the Commission's proposal to impose a 20% quota for European content in video-on-demand services.

Quote

Overall, strengthening the promotion of European works for on-demand services will lead to a broader and more diverse offer for Europeans. This will have a positive impact on cultural diversity and bring more opportunities for European creators.

So yeah, it is protectionism à la French cheese.

Now, if your concern was about the hate speech enforcement... Well, there is absolutely no detail, but that part "On top of industry self-regulation, national audiovisual regulators will have the power to enforce the rules, which depending on national legislation, can also lead to fines." doesn't make it sound that threatening. Let the industry self-regulate or let the states deal with it? Well, I can feel Juncker's Jolly Jackboot on my neck already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 31, 2016, 05:18:41 am

20% "European" content. It'll end up being 30% British, 30% French, 30% German, and 10% Latin, no doubt.

Such a great way to promote cultural diversity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 31, 2016, 05:25:40 am

That doesn't stop individual member state from imposing quota of national content like many already do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 31, 2016, 07:27:35 am

In this context promoting cultural diversity could have been basically written as "Preventing the complete domination by the American Entertainment Mammoth" and be true to spirit since the whole point is preventing the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Apple and Youtube Red from providing only american content in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 31, 2016, 07:29:07 am

Yeah, pretty much. Although one could question the usefulness of that policy change since apparently all the major vod platform already offer more than 20% of European content.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 31, 2016, 07:59:05 am

They do? not just in films?

Well, that's probably a good penetrating strategy, but not something that Europe could count on for the long term. Netflix ideal market is a like minded, English speaking, American content lovers since it spares them the extra expenses that comes from providing a larger and less efficient catalogue. there's no doubt that at this point in time Netflix themselves wants and needs European content, but it's not impossible for them to gradually "educate" the Europeans into watching mainly American content. plus and not less importantly, the law also come to serve as a mean to force Netflix and the likes to fund original European content, not just purchase older films/shows to meet a quota.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on June 02, 2016, 01:31:33 pm

Gauntlet thrown.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/02/480419665/german-parliament-votes-to-recognize-mass-killing-of-armenians-as-genocide

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 02, 2016, 02:07:38 pm

I can already see Erdogan, having just heard the news, ranting to his wife.
Erdogan: "I'll teach those Germans. I'll release a statement that Turkey will recognize the killing of the jews by the German third empire as genocide! That'll show them!"
Wife: "Erm, Recep, they already recognize that themselves"
Erdogan "What ... How?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 02, 2016, 07:05:08 pm

"My god, they admitted their mistakes? How do their people take them seriously!?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 03, 2016, 12:23:31 pm

German police detains four IS members that were allegedly plotting an attack on Düsseldorf. One of the arrested had applied for asylum in Germany and was arrested in his refugee's housing. (http://www.dw.com/en/details-of-d%C3%BCsseldorf-terror-plot-begin-to-emerge/a-19303630) I think I owe LW an apology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on June 03, 2016, 01:27:52 pm

It's really sad tho that recognizing someone commiting a genocide has become a purely diplomatic tool. I can get looking past certain mistakes and being willing to work with someone and all that, but this kind of crap is kinda beyond that.

Like, so far beyond it that I think it's making me a bit sick, don't think I've ever expirienced this with international diplomacy before. Rather odd, that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 03, 2016, 01:40:17 pm

based lama warns clueless eurocucks of impending white genocide (http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-dalai-lama-says-germany-cannot-become-an-arab-country-20160531-gp8mhr.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2016, 02:13:39 pm

Not sure if real or fake.

Also don't talk like that, Sir. I expect better from you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2016, 02:59:46 pm

The bants must flow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 03, 2016, 03:12:17 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 03, 2016, 02:13:39 pm

Not sure if real or fake.

it's real (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/dalai-lama-tenzin-gyatso-im-interview-zur-fluechtlingskrise-14260431.html)

Quote from: scriver on June 03, 2016, 02:13:39 pm

Also don't talk like that, Sir. I expect better from you.

c'est le sarcasme

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2016, 03:52:31 pm

You may think you're being sarcastic, but you're still the one talking like a moron in the end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 03, 2016, 05:19:55 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 03, 2016, 03:52:31 pm

You may think you're being sarcastic, but you're still the one talking like a moron in the end.

something something gaze into the abyss something gazes back

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on June 03, 2016, 05:35:40 pm

My country never ceases to amaze me.
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuYXZSW6rE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 03, 2016, 05:37:40 pm

I think it was
"If you look long enough into the abyss the dwarves will look back at you."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 03, 2016, 05:49:51 pm

Quote from: Kot on June 03, 2016, 05:35:40 pm

My country never ceases to amaze me.
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuYXZSW6rE)

oh yes, this is exactly why I love super-edgy animu nazi memes: they're like an anti-nazi false-flag operation carried out by the basement-dwelling nazi sympathizers themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 03, 2016, 05:52:36 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 03, 2016, 12:23:31 pm

German police detains four IS members that were allegedly plotting an attack on Düsseldorf. One of the arrested had applied for asylum in Germany and was arrested in his refugee's housing. (http://www.dw.com/en/details-of-d%C3%BCsseldorf-terror-plot-begin-to-emerge/a-19303630) I think I owe LW an apology.

Just now? what were all of these:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/01/refugees-isis-nato-commander-terrorists
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/world/europe/germany-refugees-isis.html
https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/smuggler-i-sent-isis-fighters-to-europe?utm_term=.pepX1MBJ8#.hvLnWXBmo
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugees-discovered-with-pictures-of-isis-flags-and-executions-on-their-phones-say-norweigen-police-a6774006.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/1-in-50-syrian-refugees-in-europe-could-be-an-isis-jihadist-minister-warns-david-cameron-10501249.html

Conspiracy theories? fear mongering? islamophobists?

And that's ISIS, the poster child for terrorism, the classic hollywood villain, the so called nemesis to anything good on this world, not even the bigger problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 03, 2016, 06:17:44 pm

Was anyone actually arguing that there were no terrorists among the refugees though? I thought that was just accepted. Except by bonkers social justice types, of course.

...

Quote from: scriver on June 03, 2016, 03:52:31 pm

You may think you're being sarcastic, but you're still the one talking like a moron in the end.

Thank LW, it's contagious

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 04, 2016, 07:47:20 pm

I see lots of mentions of me so it seems I have thread to catch up on

In the mean time have this:

Quote

As I can see, the participants of almost every conference on propaganda issues are trying to define and figure out the narratives of Russian propaganda towards European countries. There are many of them, but the most efficient ones are very simple and widespread. They are based on the prior needs of every human being – the safety and security. And to activate these needs in people, you should assure them in some real threat threatening them. This is how Kremlin uses refugee crisis to scared Europeans and make them guided by fake ideas, like “refugees attack, insult and rape women”.

Memetic warfare
 One of the contributors of Defense Strategic Communications journal issued by NATO Stratcom COE, Jeff Giesea defines memetic warfare as “competition over narrative, ideas, and social control in a social-media battlefield. One might think of it as a subset of ‘information operations’ tailored to social media. Information operations involve the collection and dissemination of information to establish a competitive advantage over an opponent”.
In Jeff’s opinion “memetic warfare could also be viewed as a ‘digital native’ version of psychological warfare, more commonly known as propaganda. If propaganda and public diplomacy are conventional forms of memetic warfare, then trolling and PSYOPs are guerrilla versions”.
https://archive.is/UTpCU

Jesus fucking christ, mass rape, refugees, narrative control, yurop, EU-funded memetic warfare, what the hell it's like I found a better funded version of myself in the mirror with the positions reverse-ways

Also lol, they say the attacks are 'alleged,' 'fake ideas' and were funded and directed by unknown 3rd parties that just so happen to probably be Russians, so you heard it here first, Putin paid cheeki squads to rape German women in order to undermine Germany. I stopped making jokes a long time ago because real life is funnier than joke life, Tupac is indeed aliv and make album in Serbia.
I remember joking in the current year -1 how CIA, FSB and your Nan would be funding Jihadis to wage proxy wars in Berlin but the gorilla warfare and Russian-funded Berlin-invited rape squads is such an amazing narrative

Seriously, GG it's all over, terrible jokes is terriblest jokest of them all

I thought when our government identified shitposters as threats to national security that that would be the end of it all, but it's now seriouser
RIP digital natives

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 05, 2016, 01:34:14 am

I'm fairly certain he is referring to that (fake) story of refugees gang-raping a russian girl in Germany shortly after the Cologne attack that was picked up by a ton of Russian media outlet and led to protest by ethnic Russias in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 05, 2016, 02:11:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 05, 2016, 01:34:14 am

I'm fairly certain he is referring to that (fake) story of refugees gang-raping a russian girl in Germany shortly after the Cologne attack that was picked up by a ton of Russian media outlet and led to protest by ethnic Russias in Germany.

Quote

Many Ukrainian and German experts has assumed that New Year eve sexual attacks on women on the Cologne railway station square were planned and organized by the third party. And their main aim was to change the attitude of Germans to the migrants.

Quote

As I can see, the participants of almost every conference on propaganda issues are trying to define and figure out the narratives of Russian propaganda towards European countries. There are many of them, but the most efficient ones are very simple and widespread. They are based on the prior needs of every human being – the safety and security. And to activate these needs in people, you should assure them in some real threat threatening them. This is how Kremlin uses refugee crisis to scared Europeans and make them guided by fake ideas, like “refugees attack, insult and rape women”.

Also lol this is what happens when you call wolf, if you try Streisanding all the criminal cases no one can tell what is Kremlin disinfo and what is Police disinfo

basically sheb pls, you can clearly read this and the rest of this hilarious stuff without blinking out everything

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 05, 2016, 02:17:59 am

Ahah, that thing is a bit ridiculous yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 05, 2016, 05:28:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 02, 2016, 02:07:38 pm

I can already see Erdogan, having just heard the news, ranting to his wife.
Erdogan: "I'll teach those Germans. I'll release a statement that Turkey will recognize the killing of the jews by the German third empire as genocide! That'll show them!"
Wife: "Erm, Recep, they already recognize that themselves"
Erdogan "What ... How?"

Lol. Perhaps I should become a part time prophet.

Erdogan pulled a Godwin. He held a speech before the press agency saying that "Germany is the very last country that should say anything about an alleged genocide. Let them first account for the holocaust, and the eradication of over a 100 thousand Herero at the beginning of the 20th century."
He continued to warn Germany that they "could lose an important friend", specifically referring to the millions of people of Turkish descent living in Germany.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/erdogan-haalt-hard-uit-naar-duitsland~a4314082/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 05, 2016, 05:40:32 pm

I've actually saw that little piece of news around here. Didn't really believe it, because no one could be that stupid, right?

Turns out Erdogan is that stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 05, 2016, 06:10:01 pm

If all those Turks really loved Erdogan, why did they leave Turkey for Merkel land

checkmate atheists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 06, 2016, 01:34:50 am

Yeah, I mean, I'm in Berlin, and you can throw a rock without hitting some kind of holocaust monument. I once managed to have 4 different monuments within my sights simulatenously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 06, 2016, 01:48:51 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 05, 2016, 05:40:32 pm

Turns out Erdogan is that stupid.

This is a whole new level of stupid

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 06, 2016, 01:51:54 am

Frenchman with link to the far-right arrested at the Ukrainian border with over 100kg of explosives and several rocket launchers, apparently planning attacks on mosques and synagogues in France. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/05/arrest-of-frenchman-with-three-rocket-launchers-and-100-kilos-of/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 06, 2016, 09:08:11 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 06, 2016, 01:34:50 am

Yeah, I mean, I'm in Berlin, and you can throw a rock without hitting some kind of holocaust monument. I once managed to have 4 different monuments within my sights simulatenously.

Do one of those 180° shots!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 06, 2016, 11:17:24 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 06, 2016, 01:51:54 am

Frenchman with link to the far-right arrested at the Ukrainian border with over 100kg of explosives and several rocket launchers, apparently planning attacks on mosques and synagogues in France. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/05/arrest-of-frenchman-with-three-rocket-launchers-and-100-kilos-of/)

Ukraine has a nice black market for weapons nowadays.

I wouldn't expect that there are no guys like him who avoided Ukrainian border controls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 06, 2016, 12:24:38 pm

I am 100% against EU bureaucrats promoting cultural diversity.

We've almost controlled our local Morris Men infestation, and foreign countries supplying them with funds could cause years more of agressive prancing by old white men in bells.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 06, 2016, 01:07:40 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 06, 2016, 12:24:38 pm

I am 100% against EU bureaucrats promoting cultural diversity.

We've almost controlled our local Morris Men infestation, and foreign countries supplying them with funds could cause years more of agressive prancing by old white men in bells.

This "Moorish Dancing" is a Vile and Lecherous Ritual practiced by the Devil-worshipping Mahommedans of the Barbary Coast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on June 06, 2016, 03:22:01 pm

Morris dancers are different from Moorish dancers, and I wouldn't want one of the oldest Discworld traditions to go kerpoof...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 06, 2016, 06:30:28 pm

Quote from: greatorder on June 06, 2016, 04:48:06 pm

And don't forget about the other dance.

If we had the Dark Morris around here there'd be a permanent all-day curfew wherever they were spotted

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on June 06, 2016, 07:50:24 pm

Eurobureaucrats know better, what you need.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 07, 2016, 09:07:10 am

Seven policemen and four civilians dead in Istanbul's third bomb attack this year. (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/explosion-hits-bus-stop-turkey-istanbul-160607055511558.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 12:29:09 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 03, 2016, 12:23:31 pm

German police detains four IS members that were allegedly plotting an attack on Düsseldorf. One of the arrested had applied for asylum in Germany and was arrested in his refugee's housing. (http://www.dw.com/en/details-of-d%C3%BCsseldorf-terror-plot-begin-to-emerge/a-19303630) I think I owe LW an apology.

The blaze happened in an exhibition hall in the western German city of Dusseldorf in a camp which is home to around 280 refugees.
Dramatic footage showed plumes of black smoke billowing into the air at the facility.
The cause of the fire is yet to have been confirmed, but a police spokesman said two refugees had been taken into custody and were being questioned. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/677799/Germany-refugee-centre-fire-migrant-crisis-ISIS-arrests-terror-plots)
Your guys might want to do their jobs
smh tbh fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 12:34:23 pm

So, who want to bet on the cause of the fire? ISIS members trying to cause chaos to escape? Far-right terrorists trying to fry refugees? Refugee misunderstanding fire insurance scam?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 08, 2016, 12:39:33 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IlUCJfl79M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IlUCJfl79M)

My bet is on far-right terrorists, but I won't rule out the other options.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 12:46:56 pm

Could also just be pure coincidence and someone left the iron on

Refugee misunderstanding you have to own the place you burn down for insurance especially unlikely

Neo-nazi attacks in Germany have mostly been directly targeting individuals with bats/knives and their arson attacks are not usually broad daylight in urban areas

It was a centre set on fire after your ISIS refugees were arrested for trying to peace Dusseldorf and two more refugees were arrested by the police investigating this fire, I'm gonna guess accomplices or sympathizers of peace
That refugee centre was mostly Arab so no Ukrainian refugees either

Beeb pictures of the fire, smoke column was very large, the fire must have been pretty massive (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36469022)
Accidental less likely

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 01:17:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 12:46:56 pm

Could also just be pure coincidence and someone left the iron on

Refugee misunderstanding you have to own the place you burn down for insurance especially unlikely

Neo-nazi attacks in Germany have mostly been directly targeting individuals with bats/knives and their arson attacks are not usually broad daylight in urban areas

http://www.jpost.com/International/Neo-Nazi-arson-shocks-sleepy-immigrant-friendly-town-in-Germany-396734
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/neo-nazi-asylum-attacks-lead-to-fears-of-racist-networks-a-1050760.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/world/europe/3-sentenced-in-germany-for-arson-attack-against-refugees.html

...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-asylum-arson-idUSKCN0PV1QS20150721

Quote

A total of 150 arson or other attacks have been recorded in the first six months of 2015, damaging or destroying newly renovated shelters for the 450,000 asylum-seekers expected to reach Germany this year, according to government data.

Nah, arson is a standard thing for German neo-nazi. Almost a tradition going all the way to the Solingen attack of 1993. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solingen_arson_attack_of_1993)

Quote

It was a centre set on fire after your ISIS refugees were arrested for trying to peace Dusseldorf and two more refugees were arrested by the police investigating this fire, I'm gonna guess accomplices or sympathizers of peace
That refugee centre was mostly Arab so no Ukrainian refugees either

Can't find if it was the center where those ISholes where arrested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 01:52:17 pm

1. Reread what I said Sheb, I swear you do this on purpose :P
2. Palestinian comedians have it best, ISISSY m8


Also unrelated but I figure you guys would find it funny

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://imgur.com/4QKAUr3)

JUST

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/iNfXvlf.jpg)

HAM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

Don't see the fun in there. And yeah, I did kind of miss the "in broad daylight". True that is seems more of a nighttime pastime (I mean, fire doesn't look as good in daylight.)

In more important news: Street french-fries seller dump two tons of french fries on Belgian town hall in protests of new licencing regulation. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/insolites/detail_quand-on-s-attaque-a-la-frite-la-frite-contre-attaque?id=9320218)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2016, 02:41:29 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

In more important news: Street french-fries seller dump two tons of french fries on Belgian town hall in protests of new licencing regulation. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/insolites/detail_quand-on-s-attaque-a-la-frite-la-frite-contre-attaque?id=9320218)

What, no mayonaise?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:54:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 08, 2016, 02:41:29 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

In more important news: Street french-fries seller dump two tons of french fries on Belgian town hall in protests of new licencing regulation. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/insolites/detail_quand-on-s-attaque-a-la-frite-la-frite-contre-attaque?id=9320218)

What, no mayonaise?

Pffff. First of all, anything produced north of the border doesn't deserve the name of mayonnaise. You Dutch sucks at mayonnaise. I'm fairly certain than the famine in WW2 was just the Germans looking at your mayo and deciding you had no idea what to do with food anyway.

Second, French Fries are served with any of 15 different sauces that any self-respecting french fries place will have.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 03:47:55 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

Don't see the fun in there.

It's funny because you either laugh or you cry
Basically our gov just extended the voting registry becuz, normally this would be illegal but our ruling parties got together to make it legal on the day they extended the voting registry. gg

Then Cameron's basically been grilled like a honey flavoured protein because no one wants him to be the one to negotiate our cheeki breeki treatsies on top of his Dad's comments, thus leading to this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/0S1vrTm.png)

Aging 50 years in 10 minutes
Doing Politics: NOT EVEN ONCE

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

And yeah, I did kind of miss the "in broad daylight". True that is seems more of a nighttime pastime (I mean, fire doesn't look as good in daylight.)

Lighthouse of Alexandria principle, a big fire is still visible in day by virtue of dark fog

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

In more important news: Street french-fries seller dump two tons of french fries on Belgian town hall in protests of new licencing regulation. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/insolites/detail_quand-on-s-attaque-a-la-frite-la-frite-contre-attaque?id=9320218)

I have more relevant jokes than Mayonnaise: The EU
Lol jks, have a bigger one: Our lives

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

The Commission together with Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Microsoft (“the IT companies”) today unveil a code of conduct that includes a series of commitments to combat the spread of illegal hate speech online in Europe.

The IT Companies support the European Commission and EU Member States in the effort to respond to the challenge of ensuring that online platforms do not offer opportunities for illegal online hate speech to spread virally.  They share, together with other platforms and social media companies, a collective responsibility and pride in promoting and facilitating freedom of expression throughout the online world. However, the Commission and the IT Companies recognise that the spread of illegal hate speech online not only negatively affects the groups or individuals that it targets, it also negatively impacts those who speak out for freedom, tolerance and non-discrimination in our open societies and has a chilling effect on the democratic discourse on online platforms.

Vĕra Jourová, EU Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality, said, "The recent terror attacks have reminded us of the urgent need to address illegal online hate speech. Social media is unfortunately one of the tools that terrorist groups use to radicalise young people and racist use to spread violence and hatred. This agreement is an important step forward to ensure that the internet remains a place of free and democratic expression, where European values and laws are respected. I welcome the commitment of worldwide IT companies to review the majority of valid notifications for removal of illegal hate speech in less than 24 hours and remove or disable access to such content, if necessary."

...By signing this code of conduct, the IT companies commit to continuing their efforts to tackle illegal hate speech online. This will include the continued development of internal procedures and staff training to guarantee that they review the majority of valid notifications for removal of illegal hate speech in less than 24 hours and remove or disable access to such content, if necessary. The IT companies will also endeavour to strengthen their ongoing partnerships with civil society organisations who will help flag content that promotes incitement to violence and hateful conduct.
The IT companies and the European Commission also aim to continue their work in identifying and promoting independent counter-narratives, new ideas and initiatives, and supporting educational programs that encourage critical thinking. (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1937_en.htm)

• The IT Companies and the European Commission, recognising the value of independent counter speech against hateful rhetoric and prejudice, aim to continue their work in identifying and promoting independent counter-narratives, new ideas and initiatives and supporting educational programs that encourage critical thinking.
• The IT Companies to intensify their work with CSOs to deliver best practice training on countering hateful rhetoric and prejudice and increase the scale of their proactive outreach to CSOs to help them deliver effective counter speech campaigns. The European Commission, in cooperation with Member States, to contribute to this endeavour by taking steps to map CSOs' specific needs and demands in this respect.

Related. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7023162#msg7023162)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 03:50:19 pm

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2016, 10:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2016, 10:18:21 am

If you genuinely believe that Sheb, you may have forgotten what Europe we live in

Nah, it's you who have spent too much time reading meme and have forgotten how Eurocrats actually speak.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/7Jrsxv1.jpg)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A EUROPEAN FRAMEWORK NATIONAL STATUTE FOR THE PROMOTION OF TOLERANCE
SUBMITTED WITH A VIEW TO BEING ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURES OF EUROPEAN STATES

...Whereas such coexistence enriches and strengthens the fabric of the national society, it should not affect the basic identity of that society or its shared values, history, aspirations and goals
Hate crimes" means: any criminal act however defined, whether committed against persons or property, where the victims or targets are selected because of their real or perceived connection with - or support or membership of - a group as defined in paragraph (a).
(d)"Tolerance" means: respect for and acceptance of the expression, preservation and development of the distinct identity of a group as defined in paragraph (a). This definition is without prejudice to the principle of coexistence of diverse groups within a single society

3
Explanatory Note:
Coexistence of diverse groups within a single society requires, inter alia, some knowledge of local language as a means of communication
with authorities and the social environment. Section 2.
Purpose
The purpose of this Statute is to:
(a)Promote tolerance within society without weakening the common bonds tying together a single society.
(b)Foster tolerance between different societies.
(c)Eliminate hate crimes as defined in Section 1(c).
(d)Condemn all manifestations of intolerance based on bias, bigotry and prejudice.
(e)Take concrete action to combat intolerance, in particular with a view to eliminating racism, colour bias, ethnic discrimination, religious intolerance, totalitarian ideologies, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-feminism and homophobia.
It is important to stress that tolerance must be practised not only by Governmental bodies but equally by individuals, including members of one group vis-à-vis another.
(iv)Guarantee of tolerance must be understood not only as a vertical relationship (Government-to-individuals) but also as a horizontal relationship (group-to-group and person-to-person). It is the obligation of the Government to ensure that intolerance is not practised either in vertical or in horizontal relationships

• Right to acquire nationality based on birth or long-term residence.
• Right to work, including free choice of employment and equal pay for equal work
• Right to medical care and social insurance.

Ordre public:
Explanatory Notes:
A prime example: it must be understood that demonstrations (in exercise of freedom of assembly) need not be tolerated when they are likely to degenerate into riots or infringe on the rights of others

There is no need to be tolerant to the intolerant. This is especially important as far as freedom of expression is concerned: that freedom must not be abused to defame other groups.

Tolerance (as defined in Section 1(d)) must be guaranteed to any group (as defined in Section 1(a)), whether it has long-standing societal roots or it is recently formed, especially as a result of migration from abroad.
(b)Foreign migrants, for their part, must adhere to the principle of coexistence of diverse groups within a single society.
(c)If a foreign migrant-who has been admitted into the territory of the State but has not acquired citizenship–is clearly unwilling to comply with the principle of coexistence of diverse groups within a single national society, he or she may be obliged to leave the
State (subject to applicable international legal standards).

Under Article 3 of Protocol 4 to the European
Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, "No one shall be expelled ... from the territory of the State of which he is a national". Obviously, once a new migrant has acquired nationality, paragraph (c) is no longer applicable.

Members of vulnerable and disadvantaged groups are entitled to a special protection, additional to the general protection that has to be provided by the Government to every person within the State.
(ii)The special protection afforded to members of vulnerable and disadvantaged groups may imply a preferential treatment.
Strictly speaking, this preferential treatment goes beyond mere respect and acceptance lying at the root of tolerance (see the definition of tolerance in Section 1(d)).
Still, the present provision is justified by the linkage between historical intolerance and vulnerability.
(iii)The answer to the question which group is vulnerable
or disadvantaged in a particular society varies from one country to another.

b)Without prejudice to existing control mechanism, set up a special administrative unit in order to supervise the implementation of this Statute.
Explanatory Note:
(i)The implementation of this provision depends on the existing structure in any given State. In any country which has already set up an administrative body vested with general competence to supervise laws such as the present Statute, no further action has to be taken. However, where no such body exists, it has to be set up.
(ii)The special administrative unit should preferably operate within the Ministry of Justice (although the Ministry of the Interior is another reasonable possibility).

c)Establish a National Tolerance Monitoring Commission as an independent body –composed of eminent persons from outside the civil service–vested with the authority to promote tolerance. The Commission will be empowered to:
(i)Issue general guidelines and specific recommendations for action.
(ii)Express views regarding the degree to which this Statute is implemented in practice.
(iii)Disseminate such guidelines, recommendations and views through the media and otherwise.
(iv)Foster international cooperation with similar bodies in other States.

The independent Commission will be empowered to express its views regarding implementation of the Statute by all concerned. Implementation in this context includes (but is not limited to) the imposition of penal sanctions, education and media coverage.
Juveniles convicted of committing crimes listed in paragraph (a) will be required to undergo a rehabilitation programme designed to instill in them a culture of tolerance.
The Government shall ensure that:
(a)Schools, from the primary level upwards, will introduce courses encouraging students to accept diversity and promoting a climate of tolerance as regards the qualities and cultures of others.
Section 8.
Education
The Government shall ensure that:
(a)Schools, from the primary level upwards, will introduce courses encouraging students to accept diversity and promoting a climate of tolerance as regards the qualities and cultures of others.
Explanatory Notes:
(i)The principle has been accepted for many years (cf. the Declaration Regarding Intolerance – A Threat to Democracy, adopted by the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe on 14 May 1981).
(ii)It is very important to start such courses as early as possible in the educational programme, i.e. in elementary school.
Yet, these courses must be offered also at higher levels of education, up to and including universities.
(b)Similar courses will be incorporated in the training of those serving in the military and law enforcement agencies.
(c)Training and tolerance awareness courses will be made available to different strata of society, with an emphasis on professional groups.
Explanatory Notes:
(i)Training must be made available as part of continuing adult education.
(ii)It is especially important to ensure advanced professional training of lawyers (including judges and criminal justice personnel), administrators, police officers, doctors, etc.
(d)Teaching materials for tolerance awareness courses (including syllabi) will be developed by Departments of Education to meet the needs.
(e)Instructors will be trained in a manner qualifying them to train others in tolerance awareness courses.
(f)Departments of Education will ensure that teaching materials in ordinary courses will be free of any innuendos and slights directed against any group as defined in Section 1(a).
(g)The production of books, plays, newspapers reports, magazine articles, films and television programmes–promoting a climate of tolerance–will be encouraged and, where necessary, subsidized by the Government. Section 9.
Mass Media
(a)The Government shall ensure that public broadcasting (television and radio) stations will devote a prescribed percentage of their programmes to promoting a climate of tolerance, as per Section 8(f).
(b) The Government shall encourage all privately owned mass media (including the printed press) to promote a climate of tolerance, as per Section 8(f).
(c)The Government shall encourage all the mass media (public as well as private) to adopt an ethical code of conduct, which will prevent the spreading of intolerance and will be supervised by a mass media complaints commission.

This text was prepared–under the aegis of the European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation –by a Group of Experts composed of Yoram Dinstein (Chair), Ugo Genesio, Rein Mȕllerson, Daniel Thȕrer and Rȕdiger Wolfrum. (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/libe/dv/11_revframework_statute_/11_revframework_statute_en.pdf)

I think I've made my last joke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 04:01:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 03:50:19 pm

This text was prepared–under the aegis of the European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation –by a Group of Experts composed of Yoram Dinstein (Chair), Ugo Genesio, Rein Mȕllerson, Daniel Thȕrer and Rȕdiger Wolfrum. (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/libe/dv/11_revframework_statute_/11_revframework_statute_en.pdf)

I think I've made my last joke

Quote from: Wikipedia

The European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation (also ECTR) is a non-governmental organization that was established in Paris, France on October 7, 2008 to monitor tolerance in Europe. The Chairman of the Council is former British Prime Minister Tony Blair[1] (until 2013 - former President of Poland Aleksander Kwaśniewski), and the President of the Council is Viatcheslav Moshe Kantor.

Although to be fair, it was a dick move of them to create yet another organization with Europe and Council in it. But yeah, they're a NGO unrelated to the EU. That IT think is potentially more concerning, I'll have another look.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 04:05:31 pm

Hahahaha Sheb, just like working with private companies, you can't do anything about it

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/idBj6eZ.jpg)

Why do think tanks and private companies rule this continent? Hahahahahahahahaha....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 04:20:17 pm

Oh, gosh, and they're tolerancing the House of Commons too! (http://ectr.eu/ectr-news/ectr-presentation-in-the-house-of-commons-in-london) Flee for your like before the Jackbirkenstock of liberalism crack down on you LW!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 04:22:51 pm

You've got the causality the wrong way around, also as we've established I'm not getting jackbirkenstockened because I'm enriched and tolerans

Do you have any serious commentary btw

*EDIT
No one cares so have this (http://www.metronews.ca/news/world/2016/06/08/2-north-africans-suspected-of-arson-in-german-refugee-centre.html). You lot who bet neo-nazis, gib euromoney pls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2016, 05:22:12 pm

Looks like the new Australian style cancer and horribly deformed dead people pictures on our cigarette packages which have become mandatory since last month here are already starting to have their predictable adverse affect.
The kids on the school playground in my street can already be seen collecting and trading the horrible picture packages like pokemon cards.

EDIT: those pics really are horrible. I think I'm gonna buy a cigarette case and put a picture of a dick on one side, and a vagina on the other side, to prevent people from being shocked by the wrinkled cancer corpse photo when I offer them a cigarette.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 08, 2016, 06:13:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 08, 2016, 02:41:29 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2016, 02:26:31 pm

In more important news: Street french-fries seller dump two tons of french fries on Belgian town hall in protests of new licencing regulation. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/insolites/detail_quand-on-s-attaque-a-la-frite-la-frite-contre-attaque?id=9320218)

What, no mayonaise?

1) I will fight anyone who just dumps Mayo on chips like ketchup or something. With one of those chip shop wooden sporks

2) if I came across that protest (and they weren't raw) I would have belly-flopped onto the pile and shovelled in as many fries as possible before being lynched by the Belgian fry-sellers.
Why? I have a cast-iron stomach and no self control is why.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 06:40:36 pm

No one man should have all that knowledge,
Clock's ticking I just ate my porridge,
I'm tripping, my shipping's off to Norwich,
20th century edgy fam

Btw Tel Aviv just got shot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36483660)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 08, 2016, 11:57:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 08, 2016, 05:22:12 pm

EDIT: those pics really are horrible.

Aren't they just. We've had them in NZ for a while and that (coupled with hefty tariffs) has done a pretty sizeable knock to the smoking rate over time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 01:37:31 am

Oh yeah, those cigarette packs pictures. We also have those ones.

seems like the fight against the international entrenched nicotine drug dealing community is proceeding better than I expected

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 04:55:22 am

Those pics on the packages are mostly good for psychiatrists' bankrolls.
All those poor kids with PTSS from viewing those mutilated corpses, waking up screaming in the middle of the night.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 05:40:59 am

it also decreases the amount of new smokers which is, like, good

because smoking is bad, mmkay?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 05:57:41 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 05:40:59 am

it also decreases the amount of new smokers which is, like, good

because smoking is bad, mmkay?

Working 60h a week and still not earning enough to pay the rent is way worse for your health.
Stress kills.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 06:23:36 am

That sounds like an American problem.

Also, you'd have more money for rent if you stop smoking.

Also, what does rent and an obscenely long working week have to do with the ethics of gory cigarettes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:28:27 am

Smokers believe that smoking helps relieve stress, which is wrong, of course – it's just the withdrawal symptoms going away.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 06:23:36 am

That sounds like an American problem.

Martinuzz isn't American, though.

Quote

Also, you'd have more money for rent if you stop smoking.

That's just a claim you make. You don't know whether it's true. Comes off as kind of condescending.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on June 09, 2016, 06:30:41 am

Well it does help, at first, and it diminishes with time obviously as you build the resistance. Plus, the act itself can be calming in a sort of placebo/meditative way. So there's some merit to it at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:31:24 am

That might be, but I think it causes more stress than it relieves in the long run.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 06:52:12 am

I still don't get why folks applaud a measure that is blatantly manipulative instead of informative (as the previous warning labels were). If you want people to stop smoking, just be honest and ban the stuff already.


Ooooh, that reminds me:

There's a new law on 'new psychoactive substances' in Germany. (http://www.bmg.bund.de/fileadmin/dateien/Downloads/Gesetze_und_Verordnungen/GuV/N/GE_NpSG_Kabinett.pdf) The core idea is to ban whole classes of substances, like they've been doing in the UK for a long time. They didn't fuck it up as badly as I would've expected, but to the chemically and pharmacologically well versed the gaps should be obvious. They should've just copied the UK law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on June 09, 2016, 06:57:26 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:28:27 am

Quote

Also, you'd have more money for rent if you stop smoking.

That's just a claim you make. You don't know whether it's true. Comes off as kind of condescending.

It seems to me to be a safe assumption that it costs money to smoke.

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 06:52:12 am

I still don't get why folks applaud a measure that is blatantly manipulative instead of informative (as the previous warning labels were). If you want people to stop smoking, just be honest and ban the stuff already.

It's arguably still an informative measure. Instead of just saying smoking causes cancer, the box now shows what happens to smokers. Assuming the box shows specifically smoking-induced maladies, of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:01:21 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 06:52:12 am

I still don't get why folks applaud a measure that is blatantly manipulative instead of informative (as the previous warning labels were). If you want people to stop smoking, just be honest and ban the stuff already.

Simply banning smoking sounds like a recipe for a quick boom in black market industry. Just like banning alcohol and marijuana, banning smoking would not fundamentally solve the problem, if the population still wants it at large.

You have to first manipulate (or influence, or heavily suggest, or any other synonym you like) the active majority of your population to form an instinctual, reflexive antipathy towards something, before something like a general ban on consumption of that something can truly succeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:04:06 am

Quote from: Arx on June 09, 2016, 06:57:26 am

Instead of just saying smoking causes cancer, the box now shows what happens to smokers.

Does it, though? It shows what happens to some smokers. It shows the extreme cases. The old warning labels - at least the ones here - avoided that problem: 'Smoking may kill you' 'Smoking severely harms you and those around you' 'Smoking while pregnant harms your child'

Ninja:

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:01:21 am

You have to first manipulate (or influence, or heavily suggest, or any other synonym you like) the active majority of your population to form an instinctual, reflexive antipathy towards something, before something like a general ban on consumption of that something can truly succeed.

But why bother? Let people kill them if they want! Just make them pay for it themselves. Making them quit because it's bad for themselves is classic nanny-state behaviour, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on June 09, 2016, 07:07:53 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:04:06 am

Quote from: Arx on June 09, 2016, 06:57:26 am

Instead of just saying smoking causes cancer, the box now shows what happens to smokers.

Does it, though? It shows what happens to some smokers. It shows the extreme cases. The old warning labels - at least the ones here - avoided that problem: 'Smoking may kill you' 'Smoking severely harms you and those around you' 'Smoking while pregnant harms your child'

Fair enough.

Perhaps a 'smoking license' should be instituted. Before you may purchase tobacco products, you must suffer through an hour long course on the harmful effects of tobacco, including a test on all the horrible ways you could die or harm others at the end. After all, driving and smoking are pretty comparable! Both can harm you and bystanders if done irresponsibly, but for some reason we only test for one of them...

That's only half serious. It would be impractical to implement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:09:45 am

There actually is an idea like that for 'harder' drugs, and psychedelics in particular. Doesn't sound too far-fetched to me, to be honest. In particular it would avoid the problem of people just sort of slipping into nicotine addiction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 07:13:05 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 06:52:12 am

If you want people to stop smoking, just be honest and ban the stuff already.

People demand freedom to poison themselves

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:28:27 am

Martinuzz isn't American, though.

Was he talking about himself? I did ask:

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 06:23:36 am

Also, what does rent and an obscenely long working week have to do with the ethics of gory cigarettes?

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:28:27 am

That's just a claim you make. You don't know whether it's true. Comes off as kind of condescending.

Haha, what? Spending less money on one thing will leave money available for other things. Pretty basic arithmetic here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 07:23:57 am

I somehow dropped the "more" while reading.

Quote

Also, what does rent and an obscenely long working week have to do with the ethics of gory cigarettes?

Quote

Smokers believe that smoking helps relieve stress, which is wrong, of course – it's just the withdrawal symptoms going away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 07:25:25 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 06:52:12 am

Ooooh, that reminds me:

There's a new law on 'new psychoactive substances' in Germany. (http://www.bmg.bund.de/fileadmin/dateien/Downloads/Gesetze_und_Verordnungen/GuV/N/GE_NpSG_Kabinett.pdf) The core idea is to ban whole classes of substances, like they've been doing in the UK for a long time. They didn't fuck it up as badly as I would've expected, but to the chemically and pharmacologically well versed the gaps should be obvious. They should've just copied the UK law.

Most of these substances come up as replacements for illegal drugs. Legalizing them would probably do more about the problem of NPSs than this law, especially with proper education about them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 07:30:19 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:04:06 am

But why bother? Let people kill them if they want! Just make them pay for it themselves. Making them quit because it's bad for themselves is classic nanny-state behaviour, no?

So if forcing people to wear a seatbelt. There is no cost to wearing a seatbelt (assuming your car has one), and yet, back when I was in Thailand where it's not required, most people did not wear it. Sometime, forcing people to make the right decision can be justified, call it nanny-state behavior if you want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:53:04 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:04:06 am

Ninja:

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:01:21 am

You have to first manipulate (or influence, or heavily suggest, or any other synonym you like) the active majority of your population to form an instinctual, reflexive antipathy towards something, before something like a general ban on consumption of that something can truly succeed.

But why bother? Let people kill them if they want! Just make them pay for it themselves. Making them quit because it's bad for themselves is classic nanny-state behaviour, no?

1) Why would we bother with national healthcare?  Why would we bother with health education? Why would we bother with industrial safety regulations?
2) I know people who've become addicted to smoking solely because it was "a cool and hip thing to do" back when they were young, stupid, susceptible to social pressures, and didn't know about the real dangers of smoking at all, because knowledge of just how dangerous smoking really is has became widely known only fairly recently.
3) Why is "nanny-state behaviour" a bad thing here, in your opinion? Addiction is a really dangerous thing, and the best way to combat it is to prevent it from happening altogether. The singular person always underestimates the strength of addiction, but the society - and state, as the acting representative of said society - as a whole, has that knowledge, and thus can utilize their powers to prevent that singular person from doing something they would, most likely, heavily regret in the future.

I mean, with that sort of knowledge, you can justify people using hard drugs - like heroin, if they "pay for themselves". Yet, I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of governments of Earth are, in fact, opposed to letting people do that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 07:57:18 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 07:13:05 am

Was he talking about himself? I did ask:

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 09, 2016, 06:23:36 am

Also, what does rent and an obscenely long working week have to do with the ethics of gory cigarettes?

Nah i wasn't talking about myself. Over here, it's not even really done to work more than 40 hours a week, due to a long tradition of labor unions and extra taxition of extra hours over 40. And if you do work 40h for minimum wage in the Netherlands, you can afford the rent of at least some basic appartment, or social rental house.
Unfortunatly there's quite a few places both in the EU as well as in the US where people do work two full jobs to try and make ends meet.

What does this have to do with the ethics of gory cigarettes?
Why do we on the one hand endorse and encourage 1 out of 5 people of working age to go through life like a walking pharmacy, taking antidepressants, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping pills, and pumping their kids full of methamfetamines, oh sorry, I mean Ritalin, just so they can 'participate in society' (read: slave at their underpaid, underappreciated job / don't take up to much attention in an overcrowded classroom), but on the other hand demonize those people who choose to find their relief, and perhaps an outlet for a bit of rebellion in a cigarette? It's not like a lot of those drugs are very beneficial to your health, it's just that there's not much long term research done yet for most pharmaceutical psycho-active drugs, and a lot of money to be made by pharmaceutical companies.

I mean sure, smoking comes with health hazards. It's statistically nowhere as lethal as riding a motorcycle though, and comparable to the health risks of long term exposure to stress, or eating red meat, pork and or junkfood every day. Not to mention alcohol.
Yet we don't go about putting biker roadkill photographs on every motorcycle, or put colonal cancer pictures on your grocery's freezer and give people buying meat the stink-eye.
And we tell each other to work harder and sleep less, to meet that next deadline. If you make it perhaps you'll get a nice bottle of wine in your Christmas giftset.

I mean, these horror pics, really? There's too much hypocrisy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 09, 2016, 08:00:48 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 06:28:27 am

Smokers believe that smoking helps relieve stress, which is wrong, of course – it's just the withdrawal symptoms going away.

It's not wrong. There are numerous pharmaceutical benefits attributed to nicotine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC526783/
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

Quote

People with depressive-spectrum disorders, schizophrenia, and adult ADHD tend to smoke heavily, which suggested to researchers that nicotine may soothe their symptoms. Common to all these disorders is a failure of attention, an inability to concentrate on particular stimuli and screen out the rest. Nicotine helps. Researchers at the National Institute on Drug Abuse have shown via functional magnetic resonance imaging that nicotine activates specific brain areas during tasks that demand attention (Box 1). This may be because of its effects, shared with many other addictive drugs, on the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine. “Schizophrenia is a disorder largely of the dopamine system,” says John Dani of the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas. Dopamine signals in the brain occur in two modes—a kind of background trickle, punctuated by brief bursts. “It's thought that schizophrenics have a hard time separating that background information from important bursts. We've shown that nicotine helps to normalize that signaling by depressing the background but letting the bursts through well,” he says. “I'll be surprised if there's not a co-therapy [to help schizophrenics] that takes advantage of nicotine systems in less than a decade.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 08:09:41 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:53:04 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 09, 2016, 07:04:06 am

Ninja:

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 07:01:21 am

You have to first manipulate (or influence, or heavily suggest, or any other synonym you like) the active majority of your population to form an instinctual, reflexive antipathy towards something, before something like a general ban on consumption of that something can truly succeed.

But why bother? Let people kill them if they want! Just make them pay for it themselves. Making them quit because it's bad for themselves is classic nanny-state behaviour, no?

1) Why would we bother with national healthcare?  Why would we bother with health education? Why would we bother with industrial safety regulations?
2) I know people who've become addicted to smoking solely because it was "a cool and hip thing to do" back when they were young, stupid, susceptible to social pressures, and didn't know about the real dangers of smoking at all, because knowledge of just how dangerous smoking really is has became widely known only fairly recently.
3) Why is "nanny-state behaviour" a bad thing here, in your opinion? Addiction is a really dangerous thing, and the best way to combat it is to prevent it from happening altogether. The singular person always underestimates the strength of addiction, but the society - and state, as the acting representative of said society - as a whole, has that knowledge, and thus can utilize their powers to prevent that singular person from doing something they would, most likely, heavily regret in the future.

I mean, with that sort of knowledge, you can justify people using hard drugs - like heroin, if they "pay for themselves". Yet, I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of governments of Earth are, in fact, opposed to letting people do that.

1) National healthcare is not prohibitory. I don't see the parallel. The same goes for health education. Industrial safety regulations is about dependency and how it can but should not be exploited, not about the decisions single people make for themselves. There's a difference between forbidding drunk driving and forbidding drinking at all.
2) Yep, that's a bad thing, but as far as I remember that's not because doing drugs is inherently cool, but due to advertising. The advertising for tobacco has been getting a lot more demure in the last decades (at least here in Germany, due to regulation) and strangely enough most teenagers today don't seem to think that smoking is cool at all.
3) Education on addiction is just abysmal. It's mostly completely unrealistic and thus for everyone who ever actually makes experiences for themselves (so those who are in the most danger of becoming addicted) completely unreliable. Making out weed to be highly addicting to scare people away will not have the intended effect – it'll only make it all seem like uninformed idiocy perpetrated by stuck-ups who just don't like that you might be using some of your time for something else but productivity. That's the most important reason why people underestimate addiction – the dangers are completely misrepresented and thus, when people look for these supposed bad effects of addiction, they don't see them. They're looking in the wrong place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 09, 2016, 08:29:35 am

The best way to "anti-advertise" something is to make it appear that it's something old people do. Create anti-smoking adverts where the smokers are all your parent's age. Kids will definitely "uncool" the idea.

The lab research on pure nicotine is pretty interesting in how affects the brain, and usually in a good way. e.g. smokers die from Parkinson's disease die at 1/3rd the rate of non-smokers. That stuff actually works better than the "official" treatments for a range of mental illnesses. Also, pure nicotine has a much lower addictiveness than the chemical cocktail in cigarettes does. Since a bunch of debilitating psych problems seem to respond favorably to nicotine, and sufferers of those conditions also tend to smoke heavily, we can put two-and-two together and guess that they're probably self-medicating for preexisting conditions.

Taking these things into account, we should definitely take a look at how we treat smokers as pariahs. The hard-core smokers are likely to be the ones with pre-existing conditions such as schizophrenia which respond very favourably to nicotine. Just taking away their cigarettes to "help" them, or taxing them to the stratosphere, is ignoring the range of issues at hand that affect those people.

We tend to treat smoking as a pure moral failing, because we discount what smokers say about how it regulates their mental states. Say this stuff is the stuff that prevents you having a schizophrenic episode. Just like any medicine, you'd be willing to pay any price, and you'd offset the health risks of the medicine vs the short-term benefits to quality of life. It's unnecessarily cruel to try and shame these people into stopping smoking, without developing adequate treatments for the same conditions. It only makes us feel smug about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 08:43:44 am

If nicotine is usable as a medicine, it should be used and distributed as a medicine.

I'm for not treating any drug users as pariahs. Drug use has its place in society – finding that place and forming it so it isn't a bad place can only happen when discussion about the stuff is open and honest. With heavy antagonism everyone involved is pressured to be dishonest and drug users have incentive to not be open about their drug use or abuse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 12:03:24 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 04:55:22 am

Those pics on the packages are mostly good for psychiatrists' bankrolls.
All those poor kids with PTSS from viewing those mutilated corpses, waking up screaming in the middle of the night.

What kid wakes up screaming in the middle of the night from corpses?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 12:47:58 pm

Face with a strike of the garbage collectores, Parisians recycle their trash as barricades.

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13350527_1317387098290236_827040668133847522_o.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 01:27:48 pm

I thought we already established they were refugees

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:32:31 pm

With their candles of junk we will kindle our flame
On the tomb of our trash shall our barricade rise

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on June 09, 2016, 01:34:46 pm

Kebab is a fire hazard, remove kebab.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 01:39:35 pm

Fire makes lamb into kebab

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 01:43:31 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 04:22:51 pm

You lot who bet neo-nazis, gib euromoney pls (http://www.metronews.ca/news/world/2016/06/08/2-north-africans-suspected-of-arson-in-german-refugee-centre.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on June 09, 2016, 01:46:33 pm

Were the guys who committed the arson Muslims who weren't practicing the fast, Christians, Atheists, Cultists of Cthulhu or what? The article doesn't seem to say but it strikes me as interesting to find out why tensions were bad enough that 'small' meal portions set them off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:49:09 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on June 09, 2016, 01:46:33 pm

Were the guys who committed the arson Muslims who weren't practicing the fast, Christians, Atheists, Cultists of Cthulhu or what? The article doesn't seem to say but it strikes me as interesting to find out why tensions were bad enough that 'small' meal portions set them off.

Although for all we know it was all a kerkuffle and they toppled some candles. I mean, we don't know that they intended to burn the whole thing down yet.

I should really read LW's links before postings:
"Police and prosecutors said Wednesday that one of the two 26-year-olds was seen pouring flammable liquid onto a mattress and setting fire to it, while the other told fellow residents: "We had to do it so that things change."
An argument over food is believed to have preceded Tuesday's fire. Muslims who weren't observing dawn-to-dusk fasting during Ramadan had complained about what they said was a small lunch."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 01:56:03 pm

Tbh rioting over no ramadan wine is perfectly acceptable protest
Burning down your own house is self-defeating
Not much more else to say

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 02:00:38 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

I dunno, do you routinely burn down your residence when you don't like your food?

___

LW, I was wondering. How come you even know about stuff such as that Commission-IT company deal? Do you spend time every day reading commission press release? Because that crap seems to have been very little reported on, so if you have a new outlet that cover those things, I'm interested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

What is there in this that is not to heck over? Setting fire to something because your meal is too small – what is that supposed to accomplish? I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to get them more food?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 02:23:27 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

What is there in this that is not to heck over? Setting fire to something because your meal is too small – what is that supposed to accomplish? I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to get them more food?

I suppose they think that Europe is filthy rich and thus, if they beg it hard enough (and self-immolation sounds like a pretty hardcore begging method), they will give them anything they ask, free of charge.

tl;dr: they are leeches

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 02:29:17 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 02:00:38 pm

LW, I was wondering. How come you even know about stuff such as that Commission-IT company deal? Do you spend time every day reading commission press release? Because that crap seems to have been very little reported on, so if you have a new outlet that cover those things, I'm interested.

I don't have a news outlet that covers this crap sadly. Also this is basically my replacement for entertainment, since current fiction is fucking shite, but current year is fucking tubular - you could put the stuff that happens on TV and people would call it out for being unrealistic

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:16:12 pm

What is there in this that is not to heck over? Setting fire to something because your meal is too small – what is that supposed to accomplish? I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to get them more food?

Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. Teach that man how to build a fire, he'll make Duesseldorf pay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 02:31:39 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 02:23:27 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

What is there in this that is not to heck over? Setting fire to something because your meal is too small – what is that supposed to accomplish? I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to get them more food?

I suppose they think that Europe is filthy rich and thus, if they beg it hard enough (and self-immolation sounds like a pretty hardcore begging method), they will give them anything they ask, free of charge.

tl;dr: they are leeches

That was arson, not self-immolation. He could have killed people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:45:01 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 02:23:27 pm

I suppose they think that Europe is filthy rich and thus, if they beg it hard enough (and self-immolation sounds like a pretty hardcore begging method), they will give them anything they ask, free of charge.

tl;dr: they are leeches

1. See Sheb. If anything, this was an attempt at duress or blackmail, don't know the difference.
2. Two refugees being loud leeches is going to be used as "proof" that refugees generally are leeches, absurdly enough also and probably dominantly by people who live their life by being leeches, if the Pegida movement is indicative of that demographic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 02:50:03 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:45:01 pm

1. See Sheb. If anything, this was an attempt at duress or blackmail, don't know the difference.
2. Two refugees being loud leeches is going to be used as "proof" that refugees generally are leeches, absurdly enough also and probably dominantly by people who live their life by being leeches, if the Pegida movement is indicative of that demographic.

That's because they're portrayed as the dumb dumb, thus they attract the dumb dumb - if they wanted proof they'd just present proof on how Germany has a net loss on migrants and is getting rekt on their tax base, their unemployment rate (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg6999548;topicseen#msg6999548) and their sides (they are already in orbit) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg6999526#msg6999526)

Quote

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The hall was destroyed at a major Duesseldorf convention centre close to the city's airport. Damage has been estimated at €10m ($11m; £8m).

The hall was acting as an accommodation hub for men mainly from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and North Africa who were waiting to be sent elsewhere in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia.
'We had to do it'

Both Muslims and Christians were living there. Some 7,000 refugees and migrants are currently being housed in Duesseldorf, officials told Germany's DPA news agency.

Germany saw an influx of more than 1.1 million refugees and migrants in 2015 and although the number of arrivals has fallen, officials face a huge task in processing hundreds of thousands of asylum claims.

When Ramadan started the situation reportedly became worse, and staff at the site were spat at and pelted with shoes.

A late evening meal was introduced for Muslims observing Ramadan and one group of men not taking part in the fast complained that their meals were not big enough. "We're looking at this as the motive," an investigator said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36487781

I dunno if the investigator is lying, seems stupid enough to be true

Quote

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Witnesses reported that there had been recurring tensions between followers of different religions in the Red Cross-run facility.

"During this time of Ramadan, there was one group that wanted to strictly observe the fast, and another that insisted on the usual timetables and usual servings," said Ralf Herrenbrück, spokesman for the prosecutors service.

"This had led on several occasions to disputes and altercations with officials of the German Red Cross," he said in an interview with public broadcaster WDR.

"It got to the point where threats were made over what would happen if things didn't change, and that one threat was obviously implemented."

Since the start of the year, police had been called 89 times to the 6,000-square-metre hall, which was formerly part of the city's congress centre, reports said.
http://www.thelocal.de/20160609/ramadan-row-behind-fire-at-dsseldorf-refugee-shelter

Germany wth

Quote

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fights between Arabs on one side and Iranians and Afghans on the other side were almost commonplace.

The security people in the home should be mostly also been Iranians.

According to several Moroccan-burly refugees they had yesterday morning the Arabs not deliberately aroused the Ramadan breakfast. Then, the plan of arson had been forged.
www.express.de/duesseldorf/exklusiv-fluechtlingsheim-in-duesseldorf--verdaechtiger-prahlt-mit-video-von-den-flammen-24187430-seite2

Iranian security guards may not have woken up the Moroccans and the other ones for Ramadan, if this german express news people are correct, "It was just a prank bro" caused the fire

Alternatively (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 03:11:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 02:50:03 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:45:01 pm

1. See Sheb. If anything, this was an attempt at duress or blackmail, don't know the difference.
2. Two refugees being loud leeches is going to be used as "proof" that refugees generally are leeches, absurdly enough also and probably dominantly by people who live their life by being leeches, if the Pegida movement is indicative of that demographic.

That's because they're portrayed as the dumb dumb, thus they attract the dumb dumb - if they wanted proof they'd just present proof on how Germany has a net loss on migrants and is getting rekt on their tax base, their unemployment rate (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg6999548;topicseen#msg6999548) and their sides (they are already in orbit) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg6999526#msg6999526)

Well, if it's about that kind of leeching I simply have no sympathy for people who think that's a good reason not to take in refugees. It's kind of a problem that has been long in the making, and our governments are still involved in the kind of idiocy that caused this crisis in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 03:35:49 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 03:11:14 pm

Well, if it's about that kind of leeching I simply have no sympathy for people who think that's a good reason not to take in refugees. It's kind of a problem that has been long in the making, and our governments are still involved in the kind of idiocy that caused this crisis in the first place.

1. Is there a difference in leeching, if so what is it
Is the difference that the guys setting their free stuff on fire are the same just ungrateful? Or is it that they turned their ungratefulness into arson? Or was it more government fuckups by putting the people the refugees ran away from in power? All of the above? Other? Condemnation and opposition is easy but defining beyond platitudes makes for a jokes thread into a discussion thread

If it's the whole paying less than you take thing, I'd draw a difference between those who have no intention to work and those who just have a shitty low paid job/can't find one that doesn't provide as much in taxes. Seems unfair to the latter to say they're leeching if they're caught between a rock and a hard place due to blowing all their cash on a trip to Germany only to find there aren't jobs in Germany they can take

To be fair on leeches as well, leeches are very hard working predators and they don't start fires, the comparisons aren't apt
btw have a pet leech (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/man-keeps-giant-leech-pet-5492053)
AND LEECH TRACKING! (http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2012/05/01/weird-wild-qa-using-leeches-to-track-rare-animals/)

2. What idiocy is the bundestag involved in that they should be avoiding/undoing
3. What happens when Germans die off and dependent must become provider
4. Do you believe Germans have a choice in taking in refugees

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 03:48:36 pm

Quote

1. Is there a difference in leeching, if so what is it

The difference is between being unable to give back and being unable to give back. Pointing to how much refugees will cost us until 2020 is ignoring that most of that is probably due to the former, not the latter.

Quote

2. What idiocy is the bundestag involved in that they should be avoiding/undoing

Supporting Turkey Erdogan.
Supporting Saudi Arabia.
Exporting weapons.
Exporting profit-oriented organizations disguised as aid officials to struggling countries.
Support land alienation of local populations by multinational companies.
You know, the kind of stuff that destabilizes regions. There's probably more to list here.

Quote

3. What happens when Germans die off and dependent must become provider

I don't know. Depends on how well we do that whole "integration" thing.

Quote

4. Do you believe Germans have a choice in taking in refugees

Nope. They're coming either way. I want this to happen with the least amount of friction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 09, 2016, 04:57:22 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 09, 2016, 01:54:08 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 09, 2016, 01:40:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 09, 2016, 01:24:13 pm

Also, apparently that refugee center fire was neither ISIS nor Nazis. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36487781)

What the heck.

What are you wthecking over?

What is there in this that is not to heck over? Setting fire to something because your meal is too small – what is that supposed to accomplish? I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. How is that supposed to get them more food?

I asked because up here, "refugees" wrecking their own housing establishments is almost routine news by now. I can think of four riots just off hand (and I have not been keeping any eye out for these kind of events), one which was instigated by a man not being allowed out to buy candy after the evening curfew and wrecked the whole housing. I wouldn't think for a moment that this is not the case in Germany also.

Quote from: Sergarr on June 09, 2016, 02:23:27 pm

I suppose they think that Europe is filthy rich and thus, if they beg it hard enough (and self-immolation sounds like a pretty hardcore begging method), they will give them anything they ask, free of charge.

They do have unrealistic expectations, yes. (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33962670)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 09, 2016, 05:15:54 pm

Quote

Quote

4. Do you believe Germans have a choice in taking in refugees

Nope. They're coming either way. I want this to happen with the least amount of friction.

The least amount of friction is the worst possible thing that can happen to Europe. They are not going to give up their culture, traditions and way of life so if there is only little friction, it only means Europe gives up its own.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 07:34:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 12:03:24 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 04:55:22 am

Those pics on the packages are mostly good for psychiatrists' bankrolls.
All those poor kids with PTSS from viewing those mutilated corpses, waking up screaming in the middle of the night.

What kid wakes up screaming in the middle of the night from corpses?

They scream and cry "killsteal"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 10, 2016, 03:47:11 am

So, there has been a lot of EU news about the effort to stop the extension of the licence for glyphosate herbicides. (http://www.politico.eu/pro/europes-weedkiller-wars-glyphosate-roundup-who-european-commission/)

However, I'm not here to talk about the herbicide per se, but about this part of the article:

Quote

Health and Food Safety Commissioner Vytenis Andriukaitis told his fellow 27 commissioners Tuesday that he had been privately contacted by the governments of France, Germany and Italy ahead of the vote urging the Commission to move forward with the reauthorization without their support.

According to sources familiar with the meeting, he blamed the three for silently supporting the pesticide but publicly blaming the Commission.

This crap happens all the time and it infuriate me. National government vote for proposals in the council, or push for policy at the European level, then blame the policy on the EU. Not only is it a way for national governments to avoid having to take responsability for their decisions, which destroy democratic control, but it also maintain that myht of the Commission as some kind of unelected bogeyman forcing policy down the national governments' throats. No wonder the trust in the EU is lowering all over the continent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JasmineJas on June 10, 2016, 09:02:44 am

I have an EpiPen. My friend gave it to me when he was dying, it seemed very important to him that I have it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 10, 2016, 10:01:53 am

I understand where the confusion might come from, but methinks you're  in the wrong thread :v

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 10, 2016, 12:44:31 pm

There is a neat little controversy going on about Erdogan's diploma. (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36436200) You apparently need a four-year degree to be President in Turkey, and it seems that Erdogan only had a 2-years degrees. The thing is full of dank meme and claim that Marmara's university president, a crony of Erdogan helped cover for him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 10, 2016, 04:42:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 07:34:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2016, 12:03:24 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2016, 04:55:22 am

Those pics on the packages are mostly good for psychiatrists' bankrolls.
All those poor kids with PTSS from viewing those mutilated corpses, waking up screaming in the middle of the night.

What kid wakes up screaming in the middle of the night from corpses?

They scream and cry "killsteal"

They develop trauma from not being able to poke them with sticks

Quote from: Vilanat on June 09, 2016, 05:15:54 pm

Quote

Quote

4. Do you believe Germans have a choice in taking in refugees

Nope. They're coming either way. I want this to happen with the least amount of friction.

The least amount of friction is the worst possible thing that can happen to Europe. They are not going to give up their culture, traditions and way of life so if there is only little friction, it only means Europe gives up its own.

So what would you do in Yurop's shoes

Quote from: Sheb on June 10, 2016, 03:47:11 am

However, I'm not here to talk about the herbicide per se, but about this part of the article:

Quote

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Health and Food Safety Commissioner Vytenis Andriukaitis told his fellow 27 commissioners Tuesday that he had been privately contacted by the governments of France, Germany and Italy ahead of the vote urging the Commission to move forward with the reauthorization without their support.
According to sources familiar with the meeting, he blamed the three for silently supporting the pesticide but publicly blaming the Commission.

This crap happens all the time and it infuriate me. National government vote for proposals in the council, or push for policy at the European level, then blame the policy on the EU. Not only is it a way for national governments to avoid having to take responsability for their decisions, which destroy democratic control, but it also maintain that myht of the Commission as some kind of unelected bogeyman forcing policy down the national governments' throats. No wonder the trust in the EU is lowering all over the continent.

"Less than six months ago, the member states and the Commission still thought it would be a piece of cake to reauthorize glyphosate in the EU." You seem to be forgetting that Vytenis is legally obliged to serve the Commission and not Lithuania as Commissioner, was placed there by Juncker and could not get anything done without this being in the Commission's wishes - which it is.
I had the pleasant surprise a few weeks ago of meeting a retired ambassador from South Africa, and what's most amusing is how one his conversations with the Norwegians went. He said what was the point of talking with them, when he could just go to the French, or British, or Germans and have Norwegian law changed? In this manner the EU has been horrendous for multilateralism. On the front of national democracy it's no secret that Prime Ministers and Presidents have used the EU to pass laws that their countries would find unfavourable, what is mythical about this notion? It's in the article you linked, and you call it mythical? The only thing that has changed is that the Commission cannot afford to incur public opinion turning against them. This is why they scheduled the Greek negotiations over how fucked they want to be until after the Referendum :P
So it just so happens that in this time when they face protests for their actions, they blame national democracy lol

10/10

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 02:29:27 am

How is it "shoving policy down national governments' throat" when the national government privately support the policy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:43:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 02:29:27 am

How is it "shoving policy down national governments' throat" when the national government privately support the policy?

I'd wager a guess - it's because the part that privately supports the policy is the minority in the actual government, and they do this sneaky shit because they, as a minority, can't do it openly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 05:48:38 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:43:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 02:29:27 am

How is it "shoving policy down national governments' throat" when the national government privately support the policy?

I'd wager a guess - it's because the part that privately supports the policy is the minority in the actual government, and they do this sneaky shit because they, as a minority, can't do it openly?

Nah, it's because it's policy that is unpopular with the population at large, and it's convenient for national governments to blame it on the EU. Funnily enough, they were already managing to pull that off before the Lisbon treaty, when most EU legislation required a unanimity at the Council.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

Yeah, I agree. We should remove the board of director and replace it by an elected parliament. We could even call it the European Parliament... Oh, wait.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 05:50:40 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:43:07 am

I'd wager a guess - it's because the part that privately supports the policy is the minority in the actual government, and they do this sneaky shit because they, as a minority, can't do it openly?

Majority governments do sneaky shit all the time as well, mostly because the electorate doesn't like it.

But yeah, this sounds like undemocratic hijinks.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

I want a bigass unitary European state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 08:29:57 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 05:48:38 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

Yeah, I agree. We should remove the board of director and replace it by an elected parliament. We could even call it the European Parliament... Oh, wait.

Frenchmen deciding the laws of Swedes is not good democracy.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 05:50:40 am

bigass unitary European state.

I want New Zeeland to be part of the USA. New Zeeland can be best ruled by New Yorkers and Californians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:34:44 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 08:29:57 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 05:48:38 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

Yeah, I agree. We should remove the board of director and replace it by an elected parliament. We could even call it the European Parliament... Oh, wait.

Frenchmen deciding the laws of Swedes is not good democracy.

Oh, you're moving the goalposts now. I mean, he was just talking about not running the EU like a company.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 08:42:40 am

I can't move someone else's goalposts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:45:02 am

Well, why are you quoting my message then, if you're not addressing my argument?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 08:48:37 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 05:50:40 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

I want a bigass unitary European state.

Unitary Europe is impossible for many reasons, the first (but not the last) one of which is "there's no common European language".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:52:57 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 08:48:37 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 05:50:40 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

I want a bigass unitary European state.

Unitary Europe is impossible for many reasons, the first (but not the last) one of which is "there's no common European language".

Unitary Switzerland/Belgium/Canada/India is impossible for many reasons, the first (but not the last) one of which is "there's no common Swiss/Belgian/Canadian/Indian language".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 08:53:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:45:02 am

Well, why are you quoting my message then, if you're not addressing my argument?

I am responding to your statement about how the EU being ruled by the parliament would be a good thing. In itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:58:15 am

I was pointing out that the EU is run more "like a country" than like a business. Unless you think that a Board of Director would be better than the Parliament, we probable agree. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 08:59:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:52:57 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 08:48:37 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 05:50:40 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 05:45:54 am

I'd be a lot happier with the EU if it ran itself like an actual country, (or even like the Use-impaired Nations), rather than like an extended business affair.

I want a bigass unitary European state.

Unitary Europe is impossible for many reasons, the first (but not the last) one of which is "there's no common European language".

Unitary Switzerland/Belgium/Canada/India is impossible for many reasons, the first (but not the last) one of which is "there's no common Swiss/Belgian/Canadian/Indian language".

These are unitary states? I was pretty sure they were federalized. Switzerland especially so, what with "cantons" being semi-independent entities and all. Belgium is federalized as well, given that it has the whole "flemish vs someone else" as a differentiating factor, Canada - obviously, is somewhat federalized as well, given that Quebec even wanted to secede at some point, and India is infamous for having very little centralization.

These are some mighty poor examples.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 09:03:05 am

Oh, yeah, I didn't get that you meant 'Unitary' as opposed to 'Federal'. Yeah, you're probably right then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 09:04:55 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:58:15 am

I was pointing out that the EU is run more "like a country" than like a business. Unless you think that a Board of Director would be better than the Parliament, we probable agree. :p

Nope, I think the EU should be run more like a council, and with all decisions being agreed or disagreed on by each member state's government, so that any country's sovereignty is not trampled on by a majority of other countries who do not answer to or represent the tramplee's people. That way no government can hide behind "it was the EU who decided it!" excuses for their own actions either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 09:09:42 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 09:04:55 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 08:58:15 am

I was pointing out that the EU is run more "like a country" than like a business. Unless you think that a Board of Director would be better than the Parliament, we probable agree. :p

Nope, I think the EU should be run more like a council, and with all decisions being agreed or disagreed on by each member state's government, so that any country's sovereignty is not trampled on by a majority of other countries who do not answer to or represent the tramplee's people. That way no government can hide behind "it was the EU who decided it!" excuses for their own actions either.

They managed to do it before Lisbon, when that was the case. Even now with most matter managed by QMV, the Council require unanimity for taxation, finance, social policy, citizenship, foreign policy and a bunch of other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 09:26:34 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pduRbz7IbIo
Well looks like EA found a solution to the immigration crisis before it even began.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 09:38:28 am

I'm wondering how long until you start posting pictures of concentration camps after finding out that those guys also had a pretty swell solution to people they don't like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 09:42:27 am

Perhaps, in a way. I don't see how a parliament is supposed to help, though. All it does is moving the power from "technically has power to say no but spineless politicians" to "does not have any power to govern itself". For smaller countries it would literally mean being ruled by countries who are not elected by our people, who do not answer to our people, who do not have to concern itself with our people, and who feels no loyalty, solidarity, or community with our people. It is the opposite of what western democracy wants to achieve - it is literally one more German cannibal trend away from being the wolves voting with the sheep.

(that is a literal hyperbole)

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 09:38:28 am

I'm wondering how long until you start posting pictures of concentration camps after finding out that those guys also had a pretty swell solution to people they don't like.

There already are immigration concentration camps, you know?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 09:45:04 am

Well, I quite like the idea of a Parliament myself. It's an area where european policies can be hashed out in public more clearly than in the necessarily more opaque intergovernemental Council. Plus, at the moment, we have a Parliament AND a Council, so you're represented twice, by your MEP, and by your minister! Ain't that swell?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 09:55:24 am

Ah yes, in the words of the ones on top the pile is always the best state of being.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 10:05:38 am

Ooooh, I've been promoted to "someone at the top". I did use to buy my sandwhiches from the same shop that Verhofstadt patroned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Quote from: Vilanat on June 09, 2016, 05:15:54 pm

Quote

Quote

4. Do you believe Germans have a choice in taking in refugees

Nope. They're coming either way. I want this to happen with the least amount of friction.

The least amount of friction is the worst possible thing that can happen to Europe. They are not going to give up their culture, traditions and way of life so if there is only little friction, it only means Europe gives up its own.

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

So, how will we lose our culture?
By churches being burned down? By Muslims storming the Louvre and destroying everything inside? By Christians, Jews and Atheists converting to Islam? Will future musicians feel forced to sing about the greatness of Allah? Will they outbreed us until all the earlier Europeans go extinct?
I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 10:21:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 10:05:38 am

Ooooh, I've been promoted to "someone at the top". I did use to buy my sandwhiches from the same shop that Verhofstadt patroned.

No, it's just that Belgium is part of the whole France-Germany block, so you wanting to route that grants them more power than they already have (and ignoring objections that it would mean less power and less sovereignity for smaller countries) isn't very surprising.

This is exactly directly related to the reason the EU doesn't work now and certainly wouldn't work as parliament-run - the "fuck you, got mine" attitude of it's most influential members.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 10:27:56 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

I think the big 'thing' is that it's not frictionless and there are lots of very real problems going on.

:/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 11, 2016, 10:33:56 am

Read the quote in his post, man. Antsan is responding to the idea that a hypothetical frictionless situation would be the worst possible thing for Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:40:23 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2016, 10:27:56 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

I think the big 'thing' is that it's not frictionless and there are lots of very real problems going on.

:/

What penguinofhonor said.
More specifically: I want to minimize friction exactly because friction is detrimental to the culture I have and value. I already can live together with religious people in absolute peace while I myself am an atheist. Building up antagonisms for the sake of "protecting" that culture is completely backwards – instead I need to augment the additional culture that's coming to settle near me with the idea of secularism. That's not possible if I alienate them from day one.

And as I am of the opinion that they're going to come one way or another I'll of course want the one that leaves me with the best option to make them accepting of ideas like secularism. Given that they probably want peace and prosperity, completely independent of their culture, it is best to demonstrate visibly that the cultural ideals I value are conductive to these things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 10:47:17 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 10:21:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 10:05:38 am

Ooooh, I've been promoted to "someone at the top". I did use to buy my sandwhiches from the same shop that Verhofstadt patroned.

No, it's just that Belgium is part of the whole France-Germany block, so you wanting to route that grants them more power than they already have (and ignoring objections that it would mean less power and less sovereignity for smaller countries) isn't very surprising.

This is exactly directly related to the reason the EU doesn't work now and certainly wouldn't work as parliament-run - the "fuck you, got mine" attitude of it's most influential members.

How are we part of the German-French block? We are a small country, and I certainly wouldn't consider us one of the more influential member. Indeed, part of the reason I'm so ferociously pro-EU is that I'm persuaded that Belgium, left on its own, would be fucked without remorse by its neighbours.*

Of course, some countries have more influence that some others within the EU (it'd be rather antidemocratic if a couple hundred thousands cypriots had the same weight as millions of Swedes, no?). But what make you think that, without the EU, those power dynamic would be lesser? There would still be powerful and less powerful countries.

No, if anything, I'd like the EU to be run more like a proper federal country, where the issue that are better addressed at the European levels can be decided by an elected legislature representing the whole of Europe, rather than by the arguing of a few heads of governments.


* That's also part of the reason I've not really been arguing strongly for Brexin. I still think the UK should stay, but they are big enough that they wouldn't suffer too much on their own.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:51:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Wow. So you're saying that you don't value your culture enough to actually protect it because it might be offensive, unless that protection is so drastic and offensive that it is beyond your moral event horizon.
Or in other words: You're too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people in the future, so you want soldiers to deal with the problem now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Willfor on June 11, 2016, 10:52:48 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

"Oh my. I am suddenly encountering assholes for apparently the first time in my life, and do not know how to deal with them."  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:00:48 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:51:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Wow. So you're saying that you don't value your culture enough to actually protect it because it might be offensive, unless that protection is so drastic and offensive that it is beyond your moral event horizon.
Or in other words: You're too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people in the future, so you want soldiers to deal with the problem now.

Mind you. You will be considered racist and/or Islamophobic if you try :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 11:02:43 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:00:48 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:51:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Wow. So you're saying that you don't value your culture enough to actually protect it because it might be offensive, unless that protection is so drastic and offensive that it is beyond your moral event horizon.
Or in other words: You're too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people in the future, so you want soldiers to deal with the problem now.

Mind you. You will be considered racist and/or Islamophobic if you try :P

Nope? Not by the vast majority of people, muslim included... Much less than if you advocate keeping all muslims out so you don't have to deal with the fact that some of them might act dickish at some point in the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:06:04 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:00:48 am

Mind you. You will be considered racist and/or Islamophobic if you try :P

I wouldn't know by whom. I somehow feel like I have greater exposure to the subculture you accuse of doing these things than you, given that I am kind of part of that subculture. Yet I yet have to encounter that supposed witch-hunt happening where I am berated as islamophobic only because I say that I can dress how I want and eat what I want, no matter what my Muslim neighbor says.

Somehow it seems that it's always the islamophobes who say that you're going to be called islamophobic for ridiculous reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Willfor on June 11, 2016, 11:18:37 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:06:04 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:00:48 am

Mind you. You will be considered racist and/or Islamophobic if you try :P

I wouldn't know by whom. I somehow feel like I have greater exposure to the subculture you accuse of doing these things than you, given that I am kind of part of that subculture. Yet I yet have to encounter that supposed witch-hunt happening where I am berated as islamophobic only because I say that I can dress how I want and eat what I want, no matter what my Muslim neighbor says.

Somehow it seems that it's always the islamophobes who say that you're going to be called islamophobic for ridiculous reasons.

They can only cling to the belief they're being reasonable if the people they disagree with are being unreasonable. Therefore, being a normal person is being islamaphobic according to the people they oppose. Which, you know, is bullshit. But it makes a great shield to hide behind. :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:23:32 am

Well i'm probably biased so i expect the worst of those people.
Still i get the luxury of living in a nationalist shithole where muslims who are already here are literally considering leaving due to prejudice and their mosques getting regularly arsoned.
So i feel reasonably safe overall.
Better safe then sorry right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 11:25:11 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:23:32 am

Well i'm probably biased so i expect the worst of those people.
Still i get the luxury of living in a nationalist shithole where muslims who are already here literally considering leaving due to prejudice and their mosques getting regularly arsoned.
So i feel reasonably safe overall.
Better safe then sorry right?

Yeah, better burn places of worship and set the dogs on children and women, because otherwise I might have to suffer someone complaining I'm eating a pork sandwich one day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:27:48 am

What can i say?
I hate beef.
And it's expensive anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:32:48 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:23:32 am

Well i'm probably biased so i expect the worst of those people.
Still i get the luxury of living in a nationalist shithole where muslims who are already here are literally considering leaving due to prejudice and their mosques getting regularly arsoned.
So i feel reasonably safe overall.
Better safe then sorry right?

You feel safe with people living around you who believe it is fine to set fire to the buildings of people who disagree with them.
Better safe from cultural differences than safe from arson, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 11:39:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 11:23:32 am

Better safe then sorry right?

Historically, no. Extrajudicial murder (or attempts at murder; setting fire to buildings is very dangerous) does not make society safe. You'll end up in dystopian hell-hole of a society, wasting hopes and efforts of a better part of society under the crushing heel of prejudice and backwardness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 11:39:53 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 10:47:17 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 10:21:08 am

No, it's just that Belgium is part of the whole France-Germany block, so you wanting to route that grants them more power than they already have (and ignoring objections that it would mean less power and less sovereignity for smaller countries) isn't very surprising.

This is exactly directly related to the reason the EU doesn't work now and certainly wouldn't work as parliament-run - the "fuck you, got mine" attitude of it's most influential members.

How are we part of the German-French block? We are a small country, and I certainly wouldn't consider us one of the more influential member. Indeed, part of the reason I'm so ferociously pro-EU is that I'm persuaded that Belgium, left on its own, would be fucked without remorse by its neighbours.*

I see Belgium as part of the French-German block because economically you are part of the "face" of Germany and France through which their economies do trade, and culturally because Belgium is made up of Frenchmen and Germans. I was originally going to add "and government-wise Belgium functions much like Germany and France does", but I had to pretract it after thinking it over and realising I do not actually know if that is true. I would hazard a guess, though, that Belgium is a lot more like France and Germany than the Scandinavian countries, as well as the Swedish Model I would like to see my country returned to, are.

Quote

Of course, some countries have more influence that some others within the EU (it'd be rather antidemocratic if a couple hundred thousands cypriots had the same weight as millions of Swedes, no?). But what make you think that, without the EU, those power dynamic would be lesser? There would still be powerful and less powerful countries.

No, if anything, I'd like the EU to be run more like a proper federal country, where the issue that are better addressed at the European levels can be decided by an elected legislature representing the whole of Europe, rather than by the arguing of a few heads of governments.


* That's also part of the reason I've not really been arguing strongly for Brexin. I still think the UK should stay, but they are big enough that they wouldn't suffer too much on their own.

Bolded: No, a couple of hundred thousands of Cypriots should definitely have a whole lot more weight than millions of Swedes, or 6 billion Terrans for that matter, over what goes on in Cyprus. Democracy is not inherently good or beneficial. I as a Swede will not be able to vote for or influence the representatives of other countries, but it will in practice be those representatives, not my own, that govern Sweden. That is not good democracy. It can only be called representative democracy by the most technical and semantic means. People should not be governed by governments that they do not elect and that do not represent them.

---

Quote from: penguinofhonor on June 11, 2016, 10:33:56 am

Read the quote in his post, man. Antsan is responding to the idea that a hypothetical frictionless situation would be the worst possible thing for Europe.

Read the context of the posts, man. Vilanat is saying a hypothetical frictionless situation is an impossibility.

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:51:10 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!

That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Wow. So you're saying that you don't value your culture enough to actually protect it because it might be offensive, unless that protection is so drastic and offensive that it is beyond your moral event horizon.
Or in other words: You're too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people in the future, so you want soldiers to deal with the problem now.

In any of these situations, standing up for your culture would mean friction. He is making the argument that the only way to have a frictionless situation is to be, in your own words, "too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:52:12 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 11:39:53 am

In any of these situations, standing up for your culture would mean friction. He is making the argument that the only way to have a frictionless situation is to be, in your own words, "too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people".

I did say "frictionless" I said "as little friction as possible".

You see, most of the friction is not about Muslims actually doing anything against our culture, but most of this friction is (so they claim) about what Muslims might do in the future, and that kind of friction is completely unneeded and serves no purpose but to generate more friction.
That means: The people generating this friction are radicalizing our society and thus make it a society in which people who come in are more likely to be (or stay) radicalized themselves.

I explained all of that already. Instead of lawyering about with the word "frictionless" you could maybe try and understand my argument, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 12:00:54 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:32:48 am

You feel safe with people living around you who believe it is fine to set fire to the buildings of people who disagree with them.
Better safe from cultural differences than safe from arson, I guess.

When everyone (who survived) shares your culture (or are too afraid to stand against it) you end up with a frictionless society.
Except this one is frictionless on the basis that causing friction means you get punched in the face until you either disappear or stop causing friction.
It works for Iran just fine. /s

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 11:39:10 am

Historically, no. Extrajudicial murder (or attempts at murder; setting fire to buildings is very dangerous) does not make society safe. You'll end up in dystopian hell-hole of a society, wasting hopes and efforts of a better part of society under the crushing heel of prejudice and backwardness.

I would agree but keep in mind that in this example "Prejudice and backwardness" were preemptively cauterized by more prejudice.

Anyway i think i should stop before a ban flies my way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 12:14:15 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:52:12 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 11:39:53 am

In any of these situations, standing up for your culture would mean friction. He is making the argument that the only way to have a frictionless situation is to be, in your own words, "too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people".

I did say "frictionless" I said "as little friction as possible".

You see, most of the friction is not about Muslims actually doing anything against our culture, but most of this friction is (so they claim) about what Muslims might do in the future, and that kind of friction is completely unneeded and serves no purpose but to generate more friction.
That means: The people generating this friction are radicalizing our society and thus make it a society in which people who come in are more likely to be (or stay) radicalized themselves.

I explained all of that already. Instead of lawyering about with the word "frictionless" you could maybe try and understand my argument, no?

1. I understand your argument. I made myself part of discussion because I think it is you who were misunderstanding the other people's arguments.

2. Please do not accuse me of "lawyering about" when just three sentences ago you were the one arguing the difference between "frictionless" and "as little friction as possible". You've clarified yourself, good. Now how does that matter at all in the context of the discussion? It doesn't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 12:35:55 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 12:14:15 pm

1. I understand your argument. I made myself part of discussion because I think it is you who were misunderstanding the other people's arguments.

2. Please do not accuse me of "lawyering about" when just three sentences ago you were the one arguing the difference between "frictionless" and "as little friction as possible". You've clarified yourself, good. Now how does that matter at all in the context of the discussion? It doesn't.

Okay, let me quote a part here:

Quote

In any of these situations, standing up for your culture would mean friction. He is making the argument that the only way to have a frictionless situation is to be, in your own words, "too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people".

This is why the distinction between "frictionless" and "as little friction as possible" is important in this discussion, especially with the constraint of preserving our culture.

No-friction is an unattainable fantasy, even in this scenario:

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 12:00:54 pm

When everyone (who survived) shares your culture (or are too afraid to stand against it) you end up with a frictionless society.
Except this one is frictionless on the basis that causing friction means you get punched in the face until you either disappear or stop causing friction.
It works for Iran just fine. /s

Actually, especially in this scenario. He just ignores all of history to make a point of what I supposedly want when he doesn't understand the least bit about what kind of society this actually creates.

It's kind of tiring to be made out as "bleeding heart idiot", only because some people can't discern my blond hair from straw.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 12:55:48 pm

I must admit. I didn't read any post that happened before mine

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 09:26:34 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pduRbz7IbIo
Well looks like EA found a solution to the immigration crisis before it even began.

Yet i still wonder why taking in immigrants is supposedly so good and progressive while isolationist policies are bad.
USA was isolationist and had strict immigration screening for a good while and it didn't implode.
And so is Australia now.

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 12:35:55 pm

It's kind of tiring to be made out as "bleeding heart idiot", only because some people can't discern my blond hair from straw.

Can you explain what's up with your fetish for diversity you westerners seem to all have?
Literally everyone around where i live wants homogenized societies divided by clear borders where each is to their own and sees the recent immigrant wave as a danger to the point of actually lashing out at muslims who lived here for generations and were assimilated long ago (I wish i was joking about the burning mosques but sadly no /s there).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 01:01:04 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 11:39:53 am

I see Belgium as part of the French-German block because economically you are part of the "face" of Germany and France through which their economies do trade,

I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

Quote

and culturally because Belgium is made up of Frenchmen and Germans.

Nope. Some of us do speak french, but we're not Frenchmen, not any more than you're danish. And the German speaking population is so tiny as to be ignorable.

Quote

I was originally going to add "and government-wise Belgium functions much like Germany and France does", but I had to pretract it after thinking it over and realising I do not actually know if that is true. I would hazard a guess, though, that Belgium is a lot more like France and Germany than the Scandinavian countries, as well as the Swedish Model I would like to see my country returned to, are.

Euh. Maybe? I'm sure we're closer to scandinavian countries by some metric, closer to france by some other and closer to Germany by still other.

Overall, I totally fail to see your point here.

Quote

Bolded: No, a couple of hundred thousands of Cypriots should definitely have a whole lot more weight than millions of Swedes, or 6 billion Terrans for that matter, over what goes on in Cyprus. Democracy is not inherently good or beneficial. I as a Swede will not be able to vote for or influence the representatives of other countries, but it will in practice be those representatives, not my own, that govern Sweden. That is not good democracy. It can only be called representative democracy by the most technical and semantic means. People should not be governed by governments that they do not elect and that do not represent them.

I really have trouble with understanding this line of arguments. What if I was saying that "The people of Visby should have a lot more say than the people of Stockholm over what is going on in Visby! As an inhabitant of Visby I cannot vote or influence the representative of other parts of Sweden, but they will in practice govern me! That is only technically and semantically a democracy, I should not be governed by people elected by other parts of Sweden"? How is that different?

I mean, from the moment you're in a political unit with more than one person, you're going to be ruled, in part, by the wishes of those other persons. The question is simply which level of government, from you as an individual upward, is the best suited to make a decision. That's why every country got various layers of government.

Now, we can argue about which level of government, from local up to the EU is best suited to take which decision. I know we disagree on some points (I know we disagree on a European army for example), and agree on other (I don't want the EU to dictate how my education system is run). But do you really thing that having a supranational level of government to address those issues that cannot be addressed efficiently at lower level (tax evasion for exemple) is a bad thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 01:59:32 pm

Quote

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 12:35:55 pm

It's kind of tiring to be made out as "bleeding heart idiot", only because some people can't discern my blond hair from straw.

Can you explain what's up with your fetish for diversity you westerners seem to all have?
Literally everyone around where i live wants homogenized societies divided by clear borders where each is to their own and sees the recent immigrant wave as a danger to the point of actually lashing out at muslims who lived here for generations and were assimilated long ago (I wish i was joking about the burning mosques but sadly no /s there).

1. In my eyes, migration (and thus immigration) is inevitable. It will happen.
2. Germany has historically a big part in that this migration is currently happening. The time when the Osman Empire was dissolved seems relevant.
3. I already explained multiple times why I think acting hostile towards immigrants will lead to more problems than being welcoming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 02:34:39 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 01:59:32 pm

1. In my eyes, migration (and thus immigration) is inevitable. It will happen.
2. Germany has historically a big part in that this migration is currently happening. The time when the Osman Empire was dissolved seems relevant.
3. I already explained multiple times why I think acting hostile towards immigrants will lead to more problems than being welcoming.

I wanted to write some smartass retort but realized i'd probably get banned for it so here's the extract.

1 - Salmon is known for swimming up stream and is a prized fish while every piece of crap will gladly swim downstream.
2 - Germany was also historically responsible for starting WW2 and using slavs from conquered territories as slave labor that got paid off with a one time payment equal to around 600 (even for people who worked over 2 years in nazi germany) euro after the war ended and were told to sod off. I don't see how guilt can have anything to do with it.
3 - Maybe in the short term. Frictions will most likely grow with the number of migrants.

Yeah. I do it mainly because i believe strife is important for every healthy internet forum.
Kinda sad i'll never be a godzilla.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 02:53:53 pm

The difference is quite big. Firstly, the parties of Sweden all work on a national scale. They answer to all of Sweden. In the EU parliament, the parties would only answer to their own countries.

Secondly, there is a matter of scale. There is a big difference between the people of one country overruling another people, and of members of one people overuling other members of the same people. Swedes generally share culture, we have similar traditions, and want similar things from our government. Any differences of  between Swedes are still much, much smaller than Swedes and say, Frenchman. Just look at how different Sweden is (and/or was) from other countries around the world. Are you really so surprised that I don't want to be ruled by nations who in so many aspects embody what I don't want Sweden to become (and what my grand and greatparents also did not want it to be)?

Thirdly, and most importantly, Swedes give a shit about other Swedes. They do feel solidarity, loyalty, and community with the people of other parts of Sweden. There is an obligation to the rest of the people we share our nation with that keeps it from becoming a wolf-and-sheep situation. That is completely absent ,on the European scale. You cannot share a good democracy under those conditions, it only leads to tyranny of the majority.

---

@Antsan - since this turned into a meta discussion about the discussion I decided to send you a pm instead of continuing it here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 03:12:14 pm

All points that are hard to argue, because to a certain degree they are subjectives. That doesn't made them bad per se, though, and if a majority of people from a country feels that way, they should be able to secede (just like parts of a country should be, I think allowed to secede for the same reasons).

However, I'd posit that some of these arguments also work, up to a point, as argument for some kind of European government. Surely, Swedes are not Frenchmen. But wouldn't you say that a Frenchman, a German and a Swede have more in common between them than they have with an American or a Chinese?

I think some level of European solidarity also exist. Identities, those sense of belonging, aren't exclusive. You can be a Stockolmite, a Swede, a Scandinavian and a European. I feel more solidarity for a Walloon that for a Flemish, more for a Belgian than for a Spaniard, and more for a Spaniard than for a Canadian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 03:16:12 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 02:34:39 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 01:59:32 pm

1. In my eyes, migration (and thus immigration) is inevitable. It will happen.
2. Germany has historically a big part in that this migration is currently happening. The time when the Osman Empire was dissolved seems relevant.
3. I already explained multiple times why I think acting hostile towards immigrants will lead to more problems than being welcoming.

I wanted to write some smartass retort but realized i'd probably get banned for it so here's the extract.

1 - Salmon is known for swimming up stream and is a prized fish while every piece of crap will gladly swim downstream.
2 - Germany was also historically responsible for starting WW2 and using slavs from conquered territories as slave labor that got paid off with a one time payment equal to around 600 (even for people who worked over 2 years in nazi germany) euro after the war ended and were told to sod off. I don't see how guilt can have anything to do with it.
3 - Maybe in the short term. Frictions will most likely grow with the number of migrants.

Yeah. I do it mainly because i believe strife is important for every healthy internet forum.
Kinda sad i'll never be a godzilla.

1. Soundbite. You completely miss the point, which is that I do not decide whether immigrants will show up here – they just do. The things that could be done to stop them are out of the question for me – safe for improving the situation in their home country to the point where emigration becomes undesirable, but I was talking about things that could be done, right?
2. It's got nothing to do with guilt, it's about understanding why that stuff is happening and being able to do something about it. I should have left that out.
3. See (1)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 03:50:29 pm

So you basically live in a democracy but simply give up when a problem arises making you the modern day Neville Chamberlain.
Hungarians are building a wall to force the migrants to go through war torn Ukraine and hopefully finally decide it's too dangerous turn back and troll Greece instead.
Meanwhile you're all "They will come anyway so why bother."

Sure leave the keys inside your car door.
If someone wants to steal it he can just break the window and hotwire it anyway so why even bother right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2016, 03:54:04 pm

Neville Chamberlain gets a lot of shit nowadays from people who understand neither the situation at the time nor his efforts

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 03:57:46 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 03:50:29 pm

So you basically live in a democracy but simply give up when a problem arises making you the modern day Neville Chamberlain.
Hungarians are building a wall to force the migrants to go through war torn Ukraine and hopefully finally decide it's too dangerous turn back and troll Greece instead.
Meanwhile you're all "They will come anyway so why bother."

Sure leave the keys inside your car door.
If someone wants to steal it he can just break the window and hotwire it anyway so why even bother right?

Yay, let them "troll" Greece instead (because those migrants certainly are only out to annoy us), because that will certainly turn out fine in the long-term. Probably as fine as the situation in all those countries the migrants are coming from.

Ah, now I understand your reasoning: With the migrants coming from Greece in the future, maybe they'll be closer culturally. Good plan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 04:10:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2016, 03:54:04 pm

Neville Chamberlain gets a lot of shit nowadays from people who understand neither the situation at the time nor his efforts

Yeah signing that pact that gave away Sudetenland with all the Czechoslovakian fortifications to germans was a sign of political farsight and genious.
Germany just walking into the entire country with german soldiers and tanks now surrounding Poland from 3 sides (if we cound soviet russia they were allied to) as a side benefit.
Nope it was a part of his amazing plan and not at all a sign of him being a daydreaming idiot.
Good intentions don't mean the effects of someones actions are to be forgotten.

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 03:57:46 pm

Yay, let them "troll" Greece instead (because those migrants certainly are only out to annoy us), because that will certainly turn out fine in the long-term. Probably as fine as the situation in all those countries the migrants are coming from.

Ah, now I understand your reasoning: With the migrants coming from Greece in the future, maybe they'll be closer culturally. Good plan.

Well at least you realize what happens to countries that get too many migrants.
Greece is already on its way to becoming !!Greece!!.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 04:14:38 pm

Quote

Well at least you realize what happens to countries that get too many migrants.

Because we totally take in all the migrants and generally Germany is in the same position as Greece. And those deals to spread the migrants across Europe didn't exist and actually the measure for migrants coming into Europe is actually "migrants/country", not just "migrants", so reducing the number of countries taking in migrants reduces the absolute amount of migrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 04:24:35 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 04:14:38 pm

Quote

Well at least you realize what happens to countries that get too many migrants.

Because we totally take in all the migrants and generally Germany is in the same position as Greece. And those deals to spread the migrants across Europe didn't exist and actually the measure for migrants coming into Europe is actually "migrants/country", not just "migrants", so reducing the number of countries taking in migrants reduces the absolute amount of migrants.

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/grenade.htm

*incendiary comment about migrants transferring tropical diseases*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 04:30:27 pm

 ::)
Proud of yourself?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 04:51:42 pm

Nah. Just bored and about to stop actually.
I learned my lesson ages ago and know it's virtually impossible to influence people who already made up their minds over the internet.
So quite honestly i'm mostly throwing opinions clashing with the (currently) more popular narrative for my own amusement.

But seriously now.
No i don't like unrestricted barely controlled immigration brought on by bleeding hearts.
Europe should get their shit together and finance refugee camps in more stable border countries near syria instead of making people undertake long and possibly lethal treks with a ludicrous promise that Germany & co. will take in everyone (whether the other countries like Hungary Poland or Latvia like it or not).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2016, 05:01:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2016, 03:12:14 pm

All points that are hard to argue, because to a certain degree they are subjectives. That doesn't made them bad per se, though, and if a majority of people from a country feels that way, they should be able to secede (just like parts of a country should be, I think allowed to secede for the same reasons).

However, I'd posit that some of these arguments also work, up to a point, as argument for some kind of European government. Surely, Swedes are not Frenchmen. But wouldn't you say that a Frenchman, a German and a Swede have more in common between them than they have with an American or a Chinese?

I think some level of European solidarity also exist. Identities, those sense of belonging, aren't exclusive. You can be a Stockolmite, a Swede, a Scandinavian and a European. I feel more solidarity for a Walloon that for a Flemish, more for a Belgian than for a Spaniard, and more for a Spaniard than for a Canadian.

I'd say Swedes have about as much in common with Germans and Frenchmen as they do with Americans. In many ways the rest of the EU is to Sweden what the US is to Europe - a large step backwards and rightwards from what we have achieved and/or want to achieve here. We probably have more in common with EU nations than with China, yeah, but it's not like the lowest common denominator ("we don't have enough in common to work together, but at least we still have more in common than you and [Country X]") is really an argument for a sovereignity-erasing government.

As for European solidarity, I disagree. I don't think of myself as a "European" at all, and last I saw a poll about it neither did the vast majority of people here. Europe is a geographical area to us, not an identifier. It is a place you are in, but not something you are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:01:56 pm

clearly those native americans/irish/german/dutch/catholic/mexican immigrants are too numerous and live in close communities with each other, and thus will never assimilate to be true americans

also clearly all those uzbek/turkmen/buryat/kalmyk/tatars/muslims immigrants and natives in Russia living within close communities have caused it to collapse a long time ago due to their Bad Cultural Influences™ and formed a Muslim Caliphate from its remains

it is obvious, really, that the corrupting touch of evil muslim hordes is unstoppable by anything except bullets and flamethrowers

(I'm not serious here)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 05:19:34 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:01:56 pm

also clearly all those uzbek/turkmen/buryat/kalmyk/tatars/muslims immigrants and natives in Russia living within close communities have caused it to collapse a long time ago due to their Bad Cultural Influences™ and formed a Muslim Caliphate from its remains

it is obvious, really, that the corrupting touch of evil muslim hordes is unstoppable by anything except bullets and flamethrowers

Russia is pretty big and rather good at shutting up dissenters tho.
If bullets and flamethrowers if needed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 11, 2016, 05:37:09 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

So, how will we lose our culture?
By churches being burned down? By Muslims storming the Louvre and destroying everything inside? By Christians, Jews and Atheists converting to Islam? Will future musicians feel forced to sing about the greatness of Allah? Will they outbreed us until all the earlier Europeans go extinct?
I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

Muslim population growth is higher than non-muslim population growth, that is a well researched fact.

Given this well researched fact, if the Muslim population does not integrate and made into accepting core European values and culture, it is inevitable that the culture of Europe will change, through sheer volume alone, but also through active measures by the Muslim population. it is a natural process and not something which is unique for muslims.

The projections of the muslim population growth never took the recent immigration waves into consideration and in my opinion, even though it had recently slightly declined, it will rise again with the next imminent waves of violence and the result of environmental changes in the Middle East. they will have higher percentages and they have them in concentrated areas, usually and naturally near the power centers so their proportional effects will be higher than their percentage of the population, as high as it may get.

So and given the data we have regarding the success of integration of the Muslim population, it is safe to predict that Muslims will not one day accept the European values and culture, but will fight to keep their own and by doing so, might very well change Europe.

And how may that impact you? well, If you think it all comes down to whether you could no longer find a ham sandwich near you or that culture is summarized in the Louvre then i think you are seeing it at quite a superficial level.
On the obvious issues: One of every four muslims in the UK said it is ok to stone adulterers. one in every four muslims wants sharia laws, one in three said wives should always obey their men and more than half the muslims said homosexuality should be illegal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

That's in the UK. if you had ran that poll among Iraqis, Afghans or Syrians the results would be much higher. if you don't think these views are coming from a fundamental cultural difference and collide with your own, than discussion really is futile. if you agree they collide with the generalized European culture but don't think a certain critical mass of people who hold these views could change your way of life, then i would like an explanation because i just don't seem to get how it is even possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:38:38 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 05:19:34 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:01:56 pm

also clearly all those uzbek/turkmen/buryat/kalmyk/tatars/muslims immigrants and natives in Russia living within close communities have caused it to collapse a long time ago due to their Bad Cultural Influences™ and formed a Muslim Caliphate from its remains

it is obvious, really, that the corrupting touch of evil muslim hordes is unstoppable by anything except bullets and flamethrowers

Russia is pretty big and rather good at shutting up dissenters tho.
If bullets and flamethrowers if needed.

1) Don't have anything to say for USA case?
2) I feel that you're missing the point. The point here being "most people of other cultures are not murder-death cultists bent on destroying your country, and indiscriminately prejudicing against them is detrimental for everyone".

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 11, 2016, 06:00:29 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:38:38 pm

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

It was my understanding that Cossacks and colonists arriving in Siberia left something of a mark on the local populations, and while Tatars and other people the Russian Empire took over weren't just killed off (with a few exceptions, notably the Circassians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Circassians)) they weren't exactly tolerated either. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 06:04:21 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 08:29:57 am

Frenchmen deciding the laws of Swedes is not good democracy.

But it is hilarious

I love the fact that my country's foreign office rules Europe, but we don't rule our foreign office

You either laugh or you cry

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2016, 09:42:27 am

There already are immigration concentration camps, you know?

Lmao Germany had top reopen literal nazi concentration camps to house their migrants

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

East London was where Cockney culture was born, now it is gone, and in Whitechapel you'll find English isn't even the most common market language anymore - all done in 10 years of multicultural experimentation when our progressives sought massive migration. Completely pointless, but done anyways, and it's a simple case of numbers. That and I also think European culture is mainly based around destroying European culture, whilst most migrant cultures Europe is inviting are far stronger - if Europeans weren't spineless, they wouldn't be inviting stronger men to pay their pensions for them

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

So, how will we lose our culture?
By churches being burned down? By Muslims storming the Louvre and destroying everything inside? By Christians, Jews and Atheists converting to Islam? Will future musicians feel forced to sing about the greatness of Allah? Will they outbreed us until all the earlier Europeans go extinct?

1. Demographic shift and apathy  2. No, the Churches are empty.  3. I did go see the Lourvre recently for Islamic art and they have some juicy culture btw  4.  Lol you have not seen conversion rates then   5. Not forced, but they will have fun singing about the degeneracy of Europeans   6. That's already happened, Germany has come up with the bright idea that if everyone is migrants, no one is oppressed

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

Their culture is superior to current year culture of Westerners, and further still have invited people who have no common history or culture
When the UK had loads of Indian people come over, there was no problem, they arrived and within three generations became part of our most prestigious workforce despite being Hindus from the world over. Then our government went full retard and invited loads of people who had nothing to do with the UK because diversity and we got displacement, Rotherhams and cheeky jihadi johns.

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 10:45:19 am

Oh my. my neighboor is arabic and sweared at guy for eating a ham sandwich last month. I better not be seen by him carrying pork from the market.
Oh my. my neighboor said I/my wife dresses slutty and should wear a longer skirt. Better wear less revealing clothing lest he gets offended.
Oh my. some islamic teens broke windows in the house next door because whoever lived there had music playing on ramadan. Better not play any music lest i offend them too!
That's how you pretty much give in bit after bit slowly cooked like a frog not realizing the water is getting hotter.

Tbh if being immoral is a part of your culture and you die not much of value was lost

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:51:10 am

Wow. So you're saying that you don't value your culture enough to actually protect it because it might be offensive, unless that protection is so drastic and offensive that it is beyond your moral event horizon.
Or in other words: You're too spineless to have a bit of a spat with people in the future, so you want soldiers to deal with the problem now.

Lol you'll get arrested if you fly St. George's cross in the wrong place here, don't bother losing everything trying to protect something all your leaders want dead unless you have a chance of winning

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 11:32:48 am

You feel safe with people living around you who believe it is fine to set fire to the buildings of people who disagree with them.
Better safe from cultural differences than safe from arson, I guess.

Better than getting Brussel'd by the naive

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 12:35:55 pm

It's kind of tiring to be made out as "bleeding heart idiot", only because some people can't discern my blond hair from straw.

ur a fookin wite male m8

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 12:55:48 pm

Can you explain what's up with your fetish for diversity you westerners seem to all have?
Literally everyone around where i live wants homogenized societies divided by clear borders where each is to their own and sees the recent immigrant wave as a danger to the point of actually lashing out at muslims who lived here for generations and were assimilated long ago (I wish i was joking about the burning mosques but sadly no /s there).

White people hate white people, they think by being diverse they can lose their whiteness
It's the Dolezals of the world that put the icing on my kek
You do get the funny situations like in the EU where our President says that Europe has always been diverse, therefore we must have mass migration to make it diverse. But if we're not already diverse, why are we making it diverse? Fuck knows, remove white ppl, they're ruining yurop

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 06:15:33 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on June 11, 2016, 05:37:09 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

So, how will we lose our culture?
By churches being burned down? By Muslims storming the Louvre and destroying everything inside? By Christians, Jews and Atheists converting to Islam? Will future musicians feel forced to sing about the greatness of Allah? Will they outbreed us until all the earlier Europeans go extinct?
I really, honestly do not get how letting them have their culture (as long as it's frictionless, of course) would impede us in our ability to keep our culture.

Muslim population growth is higher than non-muslim population growth, that is a well researched fact.

Given this well researched fact, if the Muslim population does not integrate and made into accepting core European values and culture, it is inevitable that the culture of Europe will change, through sheer volume alone, but also through active measures by the Muslim population. it is a natural process and not something which is unique for muslims.

The projections of the muslim population growth never took the recent immigration waves into consideration and in my opinion, even though it had recently slightly declined, it will rise again with the next imminent waves of violence and the result of environmental changes in the Middle East. they will have higher percentages and they have them in concentrated areas, usually and naturally near the power centers so their proportional effects will be higher than their percentage of the population, as high as it may get.

So and given the data we have regarding the success of integration of the Muslim population, it is safe to predict that Muslims will not one day accept the European values and culture, but will fight to keep their own and by doing so, might very well change Europe.

And how may that impact you? well, If you think it all comes down to whether you could no longer find a ham sandwich near you or that culture is summarized in the Louvre then i think you are seeing it at quite a superficial level.
On the obvious issues: One of every four muslims in the UK said it is ok to stone adulterers. one in every four muslims wants sharia laws, one in three said wives should always obey their men and more than half the muslims said homosexuality should be illegal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

That's in the UK. if you had ran that poll among Iraqis, Afghans or Syrians the results would be much higher. if you don't think these views are coming from a fundamental cultural difference and collide with your own, than discussion really is futile. if you agree they collide with the generalized European culture but don't think a certain critical mass of people who hold these views could change your way of life, then i would like an explanation because i just don't seem to get how it is even possible.

Okay, how many refugees are there currently? This site (http://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html) says there are 19.5 million, over half of them under the age of 18 (meaning they are young and open to new ideas).

This (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL/countries/EU?display=graph) says in 2014 the EU had a population of roughly 508 million. Completely ignoring that this population has very likely grown since then, that means we're gaining about 3.8% if we take them all in, which is completely absurd because, well, look at who's taking in the most refugees here – even if we take out the top contender (Turkey), that still is a significant number of refugees not being taken by the EU.

So, if we take them all in they make up around 3.7% of the population in the EU.


Let's take a look at birth rates: (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CBRT.IN/countries/EU-SY-AF-SO?display=graph)
The EU hovers around 1%, The others, combined, have around 4%. Syria, with most refugees, has around 3%, but that might be due to war not being conductive to reproduction, I don't know. I'm purposefully using the highest numbers here, despite them being the oldest.
Additional wealth, history teaches us, means less children in general. Yeah, it might take one or two generations for that effect to set in, but still.

And with all of that I think I can conclude that we're relatively safe from a Muslim takeover via being outbred. Of course, still assuming that all of the refugees are Muslim in the first place.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 06:04:21 pm

ur a fookin wite male m8

That was a strawman joke. I know, it was a bad one. Never had any problems with being white male, not even with people accusing me of exactly that. And that even when I am securely entrenched in a culture full of leftist political activism! Imagine that!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 06:21:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 06:04:21 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 10:07:06 am

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

East London was where Cockney culture was born, now it is gone, and in Whitechapel you'll find English isn't even the most common market language anymore - all done in 10 years of multicultural experimentation when our progressives sought massive migration. Completely pointless, but done anyways, and it's a simple case of numbers. That and I also think European culture is mainly based around destroying European culture, whilst most migrant cultures Europe is inviting are far stronger - if Europeans weren't spineless, they wouldn't be inviting stronger men to pay their pensions for them

Oh, forgot that one.

Not concentrating immigrants at one place might be a good idea to prevent this from happening. But of course taking immigrants in at all is The Worst Idea Ever for a surprising amount of people, so that kind of contributes to the problem of less places to spread immigrants to.
The people most afraid of immigrants being a problem seem to make sure that the problems associated with mass immigration really take full effect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 06:24:04 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:38:38 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 05:19:34 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:01:56 pm

also clearly all those uzbek/turkmen/buryat/kalmyk/tatars/muslims immigrants and natives in Russia living within close communities have caused it to collapse a long time ago due to their Bad Cultural Influences™ and formed a Muslim Caliphate from its remains

it is obvious, really, that the corrupting touch of evil muslim hordes is unstoppable by anything except bullets and flamethrowers

Russia is pretty big and rather good at shutting up dissenters tho.
If bullets and flamethrowers if needed.

1) Don't have anything to say for USA case?
2) I feel that you're missing the point. The point here being "most people of other cultures are not murder-death cultists bent on destroying your country, and indiscriminately prejudicing against them is detrimental for everyone".

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

1) USA has enough guns and the castle doctrine so it's literally the last country i'd worry about.
2) Never said other cultures are evil because evil and good are cultural constructs. They are however different. Sometimes so different that co-existence can be hard to pretty much impossible even with initially good intentions from both sides.
Russia has the benefit of having plenty pf space so groups that don't get along with one another don't necessarily have to be anywhere near one another.

Yeah conquering Chechnya was such a not Balkan thing to do. No gas. Just tanks and bombs.
We had Chechen refugees here after that over here but from the looks of it you managed to finally beat them into submission after the second Chechen war.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 06:04:21 pm

Word

The Ethnix has arrived. I shall retreat from the battlefield knowing it's in capable hands.
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/ethnix.htm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 06:28:35 pm

Quote from: Baffler on June 11, 2016, 06:00:29 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:38:38 pm

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

It was my understanding that Cossacks and colonists arriving in Siberia left something of a mark on the local populations, and while Tatars and other people the Russian Empire took over weren't just killed off (with a few exceptions, notably the Circassians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Circassians)) they weren't exactly tolerated either. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification)

Okay, so I guess I'll just have to say it directly.

There was a great deal of cultural osmosis between Russia and all those indigenous cultures - for example, a big part of southern Cossack's culture is almost entire based around the Ciscassian culture - their clothing, their traditions, most of that shit was straight-up copied, with maybe some slight adaptations.

People from Urals and Stavropol, people from Nizhniy Novgorod, people from Moscow and St. Petersburg, people from Siberia and Far East - they all have their own little - and big - variations in terms of traditions and culture, stemming from the historical cultural osmosis and mutual assimilation with local population, to the extent that local dialects from one part of the country are almost unrecognisable to people in the other side.

And all these people are still considered - and consider themselves - as Russian as everyone else. Which should be impossible, according to Sonlirain - because he thinks that there are only two possible outcomes of introducing people of different cultures into your own - "our culture stays the same", or "they replace our culture with their own", with nothing in between.

That's the main gist of the point I was trying to make. Unlike Balkan states, who try to "preserve" their own cultures at maximum purity and, as a result, are a fractured mess, Russia does not try to preserve the mythical "cultural purity" at all costs (hell, "pure Russian" is like "pure American" - if you try to actually define it concretely, you'll fucking fail and this is why Russian ethnic nationalism is so dumb; like, none of these "hurr-durr, ethnic Russians!" people have any idea about how their own culture even works!), and thus it is not suffering from, you know, Balkanization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 11, 2016, 06:33:29 pm

Yeah but they're all sharia muslimists who eat babies

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 11, 2016, 07:20:43 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 06:28:35 pm

Quote from: Baffler on June 11, 2016, 06:00:29 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 05:38:38 pm

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

It was my understanding that Cossacks and colonists arriving in Siberia left something of a mark on the local populations, and while Tatars and other people the Russian Empire took over weren't just killed off (with a few exceptions, notably the Circassians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Circassians)) they weren't exactly tolerated either. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification)

Okay, so I guess I'll just have to say it directly.

There was a great deal of cultural osmosis between Russia and all those indigenous cultures - for example, a big part of southern Cossack's culture is almost entire based around the Ciscassian culture - their clothing, their traditions, most of that shit was straight-up copied, with maybe some slight adaptations.

People from Urals and Stavropol, people from Nizhniy Novgorod, people from Moscow and St. Petersburg, people from Siberia and Far East - they all have their own little - and big - variations in terms of traditions and culture, stemming from the historical cultural osmosis and mutual assimilation with local population, to the extent that local dialects from one part of the country are almost unrecognisable to people in the other side.

And all these people are still considered - and consider themselves - as Russian as everyone else. Which should be impossible, according to Sonlirain - because he thinks that there are only two possible outcomes of introducing people of different cultures into your own - "our culture stays the same", or "they replace our culture with their own", with nothing in between.

That's the main gist of the point I was trying to make. Unlike Balkan states, who try to "preserve" their own cultures at maximum purity and, as a result, are a fractured mess, Russia does not try to preserve the mythical "cultural purity" at all costs (hell, "pure Russian" is like "pure American" - if you try to actually define it concretely, you'll fucking fail and this is why Russian ethnic nationalism is so dumb; like, none of these "hurr-durr, ethnic Russians!" people have any idea about how their own culture even works!), and thus it is not suffering from, you know, Balkanization.

I'm not disputing any of that, just pointing out that the fact that elements of those cultures have been absorbed into Russian culture is about as academic to the original Circassians/Tatars/Native Siberians who got Cossack'd as the tobacco smoking and native loanwords absorbed into American English is to people like the Mohicans and Cherokee.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 07:39:53 pm

Ciscassians, okay, but Tatars and Native Siberians have not been wiped out to the same degree Native Americans were, to my knowledge. Tatars even have their own republic state, Tatarstan.

Speaking of Tatars, majority of them are Muslim. And Tatarstan has not started to "culturally conquer" the surrounding territories, contrary to what you'd expect if you believed the crap that the anti-immigration European folks talk about.

I don't even know what's the point of this discussion, since the main opponent here has directly admitted that they won't change their views on immigration, no matter what I say to them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 08:07:28 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 11, 2016, 06:24:04 pm

The Ethnix has arrived. I shall retreat from the battlefield knowing it's in capable hands.
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/ethnix.htm

Oh shit, this is fucking awesome

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 06:21:12 pm

Oh, forgot that one.
Not concentrating immigrants at one place might be a good idea to prevent this from happening. But of course taking immigrants in at all is The Worst Idea Ever for a surprising amount of people, so that kind of contributes to the problem of less places to spread immigrants to.
The people most afraid of immigrants being a problem seem to make sure that the problems associated with mass immigration really take full effect.

Antsan, you maintain that migration is impossible to stop thus it is not worth attempting to stop. How does this reconcile then with replacing culture if it could only be done by spreading migrants across the whole, something more difficult than stopping them from entering? If migration control is impossible - how is more migration control possible?

Quote from: Antsan on June 11, 2016, 06:15:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2016, 06:04:21 pm

ur a fookin wite male m8

That was a strawman joke. I know, it was a bad one. Never had any problems with being white male, not even with people accusing me of exactly that. And that even when I am securely entrenched in a culture full of leftist political activism! Imagine that!

fookin wite males stealin my imaginations

i luv u man

Quote from: Sergarr on June 11, 2016, 07:39:53 pm

Ciscassians, okay, but Tatars and Native Siberians have not been wiped out to the same degree Native Americans were, to my knowledge. Tatars even have their own republic state, Tatarstan.
Speaking of Tatars, majority of them are Muslim. And Tatarstan has not started to "culturally conquer" the surrounding territories, contrary to what you'd expect if you believed the crap that the anti-immigration European folks talk about.
I don't even know what's the point of this discussion, since the main opponent here has directly admitted that they won't change their views on immigration, no matter what I say to them.

Compare Central Asian Muslims with Afghan Muslims
Central Asian Muslims got Sovieted and before then Russianed
Afghans didn't

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 12, 2016, 04:38:06 am

Eleven German MPs of Turkish origin have been placed under police protection after death threats following the Armenian genocide recognition. Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/europe/detail_genocide-armenien-onze-parlementaires-allemands-avises-d-eviter-tout-voyage-en-turquie?id=9323568)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 12, 2016, 04:50:31 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 12, 2016, 04:38:06 am

Eleven German MPs of Turkish origin have been placed under police protection after death threats following the Armenian genocide recognition. Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/europe/detail_genocide-armenien-onze-parlementaires-allemands-avises-d-eviter-tout-voyage-en-turquie?id=9323568)

Link is in french, have a google translated (The shock, the horror) copy

Quote

The German Foreign Ministry has advised eleven German parliamentarians of Turkish origin to avoid traveling to Turkey for the time being, revealed Saturday Spiegel. These elected officials have received death threats after having voted for a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide by Ankara constesté, and were placed under police protection reports the BBC.

The German Foreign Ministry believes that their safety can not be guaranteed if they go to Turkey.

It was decided to expand their police escort after a meeting late Saturday between Berlin and federal police, says the Frankfurter Allgemeine in its Sunday edition.

A police spokesman declined to give details about the threats but said the measures were appropriate to ensure the security of politicians.

"Threats against members of Turkish origin are inaceptables," said the interior minister Thomas de Maiziere. "Security measures will be taken on."

    corrupted blood

One of the 11 elected the president of the environmental group, Cem Ozdemir, a Turkish-German who proposed the resolution to reconaitre genocide and who was the first received increased police protection this month after receiving threats of death.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that the 11 deputies of Turkish origin and supporting the resolution had "corrupted blood" after the vote.

The mayor of Ankara for its part appointed the parliamentary network on Twitter and felt that they had "stabbed in the back" the Turkish population. A statement that was shared many times by Turkish nationalists, some of whom have made death threats against these German politicians.

Armenians say more than 1.5 million of them perished in horrific circumstances in 1915, during the fall of the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. Turkey minimizes the number of victims and rejects the term genocide.

Twenty countries, including Belgium, France, Italy and Russia, have recognized that there was an Armenian genocide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 12, 2016, 05:44:46 am

Ah the logic of primitive people.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 12, 2016, 04:50:31 am

Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab.

You know you are onto something special as a nation when your leader mixes his occult statements with modern terminology.
Gee
I better join the Jehovah's Witness to make sure no hospital transfuses tainted blood into me.
Lest i want to become a moderate liberal under its influence and start recognizing non Jewish genocides 100 years late and pat myself on the back for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 12, 2016, 05:49:15 am

To be fair, this whole "recognize genocide" is a rather new thing. I guess it really never occured to people before that you need some official acts to recognize an historical fact.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 12, 2016, 06:02:52 am

True i guess. There are asshats denying the existence of death camps even now when the Jewish genocide was recognized from the very beginning.

Also a funny thing i saw in Wikipedia.

Quote

An important consequence of the Balkan Wars was also the mass expulsion of Muslims (known as muhacirs) from the Balkans. Beginning in the mid-19th century, hundreds of thousands of Muslims, including Turks, Circassians, and Chechens, were expelled or forced to flee from the Caucasus and the Balkans (Rumelia) as a result of the Russo-Turkish wars and the conflicts in the Balkans. Muslim society in the empire was incensed by this flood of refugees. A journal published in Constantinople expressed the mood of the times: "Let this be a warning ... O Muslims, don't get comfortable! Do not let your blood cool before taking revenge".[37]:86 As many as 850,000 of these refugees were settled in areas where the Armenians were resident from the period of 1878–1904. The muhacirs resented the status of their relatively well-off neighbors and, as historian Taner Akçam and others have noted, the refugees came to play a pivotal role in the killings of the Armenians and the confiscation of their properties during the genocide.

*makes an annoying statement about the refugee crisis*
History likes to... *something something*

Oh seriously all this time i thought Turkey and Turks were a relatively modern nation bit I got proven so wrong i almost feel stupid for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 12, 2016, 08:16:12 am

This thread isn't locked yet? Ptw the bants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 12, 2016, 08:32:29 am

It isn't locked yet again yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 12, 2016, 08:37:49 am

Politics amirite?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2016, 03:03:45 pm

What does Erdogan mean by corrupted blood

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 12, 2016, 03:13:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2016, 03:03:45 pm

What does Erdogan mean by corrupted blood

It means that their True Pure Ethnic Turkish Blood™ has been corrupted by the Tainted Evil Impure European Blood™. Basically, Europeans are unclean filth that must be purged from the face of Earth, but Turkey must still get into EU despite not holding their own end of the EU deal, more news at Erdogan's 11.

The good news is, I've recently heard that the reason why Erdogan has suddenly gone off the deep end is because he has serious health problems (like, liver cancer or something), and he's basically high on the meds all the time, but he is still going to die pretty soon, so he's trying to accelerate things up, so that he finishes transforming Turkey into second Saddam's Iraq before his death.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 12, 2016, 03:21:04 pm

West/central/north yuropean cultures are not descended from glorious horse nomads, and thus need to be purged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on June 12, 2016, 03:27:59 pm

Quote from: Teneb on June 12, 2016, 03:21:04 pm

West/central/north yuropean cultures are not descended from glorious horse nomads, and thus need to be purged.

Tell that to Hungarians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2016, 03:34:14 pm

Magyars 5ever

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 12, 2016, 03:37:52 pm

Slavland did a thing back in the day too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://www.funwithcy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/the_battle_of_vienna_1683.jpg)

Question remains. Is slavland central or eastern yurop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2016, 03:44:51 pm

If inside curvy Carpathian mountain range, central yurop. East of that, Eastern yurop

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 12, 2016, 03:51:17 pm

Hmm.
That makes Lehistan firmly cental european then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2016, 08:02:50 pm

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2016/06/09/anakonda-germans-and-brits-build-bridge-using-amphib-vehicles/85638400/
Russian bridge building cannot compare

Quote

“This is the best bridge I’ve ever seen in my life,” Hodges told Defense News after his crossing.

“You’ve got a wonderful example of interoperability,” he said. “This is a great example of an ally providing the capability that everybody else needs.”

Hodges said the US Army’s bridging capability — which does not consist of the M3 amphibious vehicle — is stationed elsewhere such as in the US, the Pacific theater and the Middle East. “I don’t have it here,” he said.

The exercise showed that several countries can come together seamlessly to stage a crossing. The British and the Germans connected their M3s with little difficulty, linking up like synchronized swimmers over the course of 45 minutes. The only way to tell which vehicle was British and which was German were the flags flown on each rig once the bridge came together.

German Brig. Gen. Markus Laubenthal, who is the chief of staff for US Army Europe, told Defense News on the way back from Chelmno to Warsaw after the operation that the capability is “unique” in NATO provided by just the German and British armies.

10/10 bridges, would bridge again, america senpai noticed my bridges

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2016, 08:17:33 am

French public prosecutor, Brice Robin, says that specially trained Russian hooligans are responsible for the violence that erupted beween English and Russian supporters in Marseille, after their European Championship match.

"These 150 supporters are, in reality, hooligans" Robin stated in a press conference.
"These people were well prepared to strike extremely fast, and extremely violent. These are well trained and disciplined men."

The Russian "ultra's" are well trained, and barely drink alcohol if at all.
"They are tough guys, who see fighting as sport instead of football", says hooliganism expert Ronan Evain.
They assaulted the English supporters like professional commandos, striking in small groups using coordinated attacks.
It is doubtful that the French reaction to the incident, banning the serving of alcohol for the rest of the EK, will have any effect, since alcohol is not the trigger for these hooligans. Their mission is to fight.

In the fight, 35 people were injured, of whom 4 are in hospital in critical condition. Nearly all wounded are British.
A 51 year old Brit, who was hit on the head with an iron bar, is still fighting for his life.
Only 2 Russians have been arrested.
Six British people, amongst whom a 16 year old kid, one Austrian, and 3 French people will be put on trial in Marseille this afternoon.

The board of UEFA has threatened to ban both England as well as Russia from the rest of the EC, if their supporters misbehave one more time.
The EUFA's disciplinary commission has officially charged the Russian football federation, for assaulting UK fans in the stadion, throwing fireworks, and being racists.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/-russische-hooligans-in-marseille-waren-getraind-voor-extreem-geweld~a4319360/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/-russische-hooligans-in-marseille-waren-getraind-voor-extreem-geweld~a4319360/)
http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/frankrijk-beantwoordt-gevechten-hooligans-met-alcoholverbod~a4318826/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/frankrijk-beantwoordt-gevechten-hooligans-met-alcoholverbod~a4318826/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 13, 2016, 08:24:05 am

football's srs bsns

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2016, 08:30:00 am

WW1 started with a musket ball. WWII with Polandball. WWIII will start with football.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 13, 2016, 08:34:35 am

Reminds me of one guy i worked with in England.
He was a private bus driver and ferried polish supporters to a game in northern england.
During a stop his "boys" spotted a bunch of teens with a Scottish flag and lunged at them quickly stealing the flag followed by getting spotted by the police.
And then he added with pride that an hour or so later they met up with him the flag still in hand.

I still wonder how much of his story was bullshit wishful thinking of a braindead nationalist and how of it much was true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 13, 2016, 08:47:41 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2016, 08:30:00 am

WW1 started with a musket ball. WWII with Polandball. WWIII will start with football.

Wouldn't be the first time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 10:14:12 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/QUn1b6T.jpg)
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/13/100441882__England-fan-Marseille-NEWS-xlarge_trans++AJKf8gPvN_ApGppqLcR-MDDAfwB3lrD912jpbltkVmM.jpg)
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/13/100431606_Russia-England-fight-NEWS-xlarge_trans++N8SpgT_1U1dhQgFeh6VyTrtWJlWhVUlX7cn_J0PQoQY.jpg)

Damn, a 50 y/o Anglo got rekt with an iron bar to the skull
Man's prolly going to die

Quote

Dr Geoff Pearson, a senior lecturer in criminal law at Manchester University who was present during the Marseille riots of 1998 and in Charleroi at Euro 2000, said the scenes in Marseille over the weekend were the worst he had seen.

Dr Pearson has been highly critical in the past of French police, claiming that unlike other European forces they have not moved on from outdated crowd control methods which often make the situation worse.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/euro-2016-french-fail-to-arrest-any-russian-hooligans-after-mars/

French po need help

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2016, 10:31:23 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 10:14:12 am

Quote

Dr Geoff Pearson, a senior lecturer in criminal law at Manchester University who was present during the Marseille riots of 1998 and in Charleroi at Euro 2000, said the scenes in Marseille over the weekend were the worst he had seen.

Dr Pearson has been highly critical in the past of French police, claiming that unlike other European forces they have not moved on from outdated crowd control methods which often make the situation worse.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/euro-2016-french-fail-to-arrest-any-russian-hooligans-after-mars/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/euro-2016-french-fail-to-arrest-any-russian-hooligans-after-mars/)

French po need help

From that article:

Quote

Meanwhile, a leading figure in Russia’s football association and parliament has told fans who attacked England supporters during their European Championship match to “Keep it up”.
Igor Lebedev, a member of the executive committee of the Russian Football Union who is also deputy chairman of the national parliament, posted on Twitter: “I don’t see anything wrong with the fans fighting. Quite the opposite. Well done, lads. Keep it up!”

:o
(guess who's getting his accounts frozen by EU sanctions next)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 13, 2016, 10:36:42 am

like I've said

football's srs bsns

they even conduct formation-based warfare with each other

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 10:43:36 am

The one thing I find difficulty in understanding is why UEFA are threatening throwing out the teams.

I mean expecting some self-policing from "real" fans is all well and good, but if you throw the team out, are you honestly expecting the folk who are there for the fighting to piss off back home? All it does is punish the folk who are there to support their team.

"Sorry, you didn't stop your fellow fans kicking the shit out other fans while you were on holiday expecting to watch football and not be unpaid police. Go away now."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on June 13, 2016, 11:12:50 am

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 10:43:36 am

The one thing I find difficulty in understanding is why UEFA are threatening throwing out the teams.

I mean expecting some self-policing from "real" fans is all well and good, but if you throw the team out, are you honestly expecting the folk who are there for the fighting to piss off back home? All it does is punish the folk who are there to support their team.

"Sorry, you didn't stop your fellow fans kicking the shit out other fans while you were on holiday expecting to watch football and not be unpaid police. Go away now."

Always thought the idea was to make the legit fans put pressure on the national level to get shit sorted. It's not like these guys materialized out of thin air, they are organized and operate continuously in their home country, and unless you target that, more will show up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 11:22:44 am

Yeah, the "peer pressure" from the normal fans do help out, so is the ultras fear of seeing their home team getting thrown out, but i do wonder if the various European police departments knows the names of some of these hooligans and could have sent their names to the French police to have them stopped from getting anywhere near the stadiums during the event. i don't expect anything from the Russian authorities, but the Europeans should have had an extensive list of potential trouble makers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 11:28:09 am

Quote from: Sergarr on June 13, 2016, 10:36:42 am

like I've said

football's srs bsns

they even conduct formation-based warfare with each other

I love that Football fans found a way to kill someone with a newspaper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 13, 2016, 11:42:16 am

Quote from: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 11:22:44 am

Yeah, the "peer pressure" from the normal fans do help out, so is the ultras fear of seeing their home team getting thrown out, but i do wonder if the various European police departments knows the names of some of these hooligans and could have sent their names to the French police to have them stopped from getting anywhere near the stadiums during the event. i don't expect anything from the Russian authorities, but the Europeans should have had an extensive list of potential trouble makers.

I think ultras subculture had very little role in the recent football related violence in France.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 11:57:45 am

Quote from: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 11:22:44 am

Yeah, the "peer pressure" from the normal fans do help out, so is the ultras fear of seeing their home team getting thrown out, but i do wonder if the various European police departments knows the names of some of these hooligans and could have sent their names to the French police to have them stopped from getting anywhere near the stadiums during the event. i don't expect anything from the Russian authorities, but the Europeans should have had an extensive list of potential trouble makers.

Tbh estensive databases of trouble makers sounds pretty hitlery

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 11:59:39 am

Because trying to prevent from criminals to physically hurt others and ruin the game for millions is hitlery?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 12:00:02 pm

Er... criminal records? It's about as extensive as you need.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 12:04:45 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 11:59:39 am

Because trying to prevent from criminals to physically hurt others and ruin the game for millions is hitlery?

Being willing to do anything to prevent criminals from physically hurting others and ruining the game for millions sounds very hitlery

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 12:06:22 pm

You keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2016, 12:09:29 pm

I think he means Hillary

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 12:11:11 pm

Heh, it would actually kinda do make sense if he had.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 12:13:13 pm

I think it only truly becomes Hitlery when the French round all the ultras up and gas them for being the cause of all their ills.

Otherwise it's just kinda sensible to keep people known for football-related violence away from football.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 01:10:51 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 12:06:22 pm

You keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means.

Hitlery is a pretty Hitlery word

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 12:13:13 pm

I think it only truly becomes Hitlery when the French round all the ultras up and gas them for being the cause of all their ills.

Otherwise it's just kinda sensible to keep people known for football-related violence away from football.

Or use such a database to destroy dissidents like the strike leaders

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 01:18:23 pm

So basically any publicly available database is a tool to destroy people.

While I see your point - even accept your point, to a point - I will point out I reserve the right to think you're a little bit mad as a result.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 13, 2016, 01:37:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 01:10:51 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on June 13, 2016, 12:06:22 pm

You keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means.

Hitlery is a pretty Hitlery word

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 12:13:13 pm

I think it only truly becomes Hitlery when the French round all the ultras up and gas them for being the cause of all their ills.

Otherwise it's just kinda sensible to keep people known for football-related violence away from football.

Or use such a database to destroy dissidents like the strike leaders

I'm pretty sure that the government already keeps such databases. How do you think intelligence agencies work? Just by randomly picking out people from the crowd?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2016, 03:20:11 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 13, 2016, 01:37:40 pm

I'm pretty sure that the government already keeps such databases. How do you think intelligence agencies work? Just by randomly picking out people from the crowd?

Varies from gov to gov
Some are literally like that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on June 13, 2016, 07:56:46 pm

NATO to send four multinational battalions to the Baltic. (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-chief-4-battalions-going-to-baltic-states-poland/ar-AAgYNVu?ocid=ansmsnnews11)

Quote

BRUSSELS — NATO's chief said Monday the alliance will agree this week to send four multinational battalions to the Baltic states and Poland to boost their defenses against Russia.

Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary-general, said alliance defense ministers will formally approve the deployment plan drafted by NATO military planners at a meeting that begins Tuesday in Brussels.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, four of NATO's members that feel most threatened by Russia, will each be reinforced by "a robust multinational battalion," Stoltenberg told a news conference.

"This will send a clear signal that NATO stands ready to defend any ally," the NATO chief said.

Stoltenberg said the battalions will be commanded by NATO military leaders, and deployed on a rotational basis rather than being based permanently in the host countries.

U.S. NATO Ambassador Douglas Lute said details of the number of troops to be deployed as well as the national composition of the battalions and who will be in their command will be decided and announced at the July NATO summit in Warsaw. NATO officials say that some 4,000 troops will be involved.

Lute, speaking Monday during a telephone press briefing, said the rotation will be on the heel-to-toe basis, meaning the troops will be present in the host countries every day of the year.

Lute said the troops will remain as long as is necessary.

The United States, Britain and Germany have already committed to acting as so-called framework nations for three of the battalions. It was not immediately clear which NATO member country would agree to furnish the core forces for the fourth battalion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 14, 2016, 12:12:38 am

Sending troops to Poland? Now that's hitlery.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 12:51:16 am

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 01:18:23 pm

So basically any publicly available database is a tool to destroy people.

While I see your point - even accept your point, to a point - I will point out I reserve the right to think you're a little bit mad as a result.

We have this database here called "medical records" - clearly not an attempt to help others but for the hitlerites to know who to eugenicise and to spare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 14, 2016, 01:47:15 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 12:51:16 am

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2016, 01:18:23 pm

So basically any publicly available database is a tool to destroy people.

While I see your point - even accept your point, to a point - I will point out I reserve the right to think you're a little bit mad as a result.

We have this database here called "medical records" - clearly not an attempt to help others but for the hitlerites to know who to eugenicise and to spare.

An important part of the security of a database is access control. You don't want just anyone going around reading people's medical records, or you'd have a Gattaca-esque scenario where insurance companies and employers refuse to deal with certain people to avoid paying out. There are lots of very good reasons it's pretty difficult for anyone that isn't actively providing care to you to access those records, but it's also very important that the information exists so doctors are aware of any pre-existing conditions that might affect their treatment of you.

A database created for security reasons, on the other hand, has to be shared with as many people as possible to reach its full potential. It isn't really relevant to anyone but the doctor that John Doe's taking medication that results in decreased liver function. It's just so much noise. But the more widely aware people are that John is a potential terrorist the better, plus as a potential terrorist he could theoretically do terrorist stuff at any time. Potential terrorists need to be watched so they can't do any of that stuff on the sly, and the more complete that surveillance the better, from a security standpoint. It will be as intrusive and as comprehensive as it can be, because that's the most effective way to do it. The benefits to the individual and society as a whole are very small compared to the loss of privacy and chilling effect on political speech. And all that's to say nothing of the personal benefits for the people running the database to start abusing it.

So no, they aren't really comparable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 02:11:42 am

Security databases only need to be shared with security personnel, just like medical databases only news to be shared with medical personnel. I see no difference here that is relevant to the context of the discussion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 14, 2016, 02:17:49 am

Quote from: Baffler on June 14, 2016, 01:47:15 am

There are lots of very good reasons it's pretty difficult for anyone that isn't actively providing care to you to access those records, but it's also very important that the information exists so doctors are aware of any pre-existing conditions that might affect their treatment of you.

...The benefits to the individual and society as a whole [for a security-oriented list/database] are very small compared to the loss of privacy and chilling effect on political speech. And all that's to say nothing of the personal benefits for the people running the database to start abusing it.

These are the important parts. It's in what they're used for, or more directly, who gets what out of them that makes the difference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2016, 03:26:49 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 02:11:42 am

Security databases only need to be shared with security personnel, just like medical databases only news to be shared with medical personnel. I see no difference here that is relevant to the context of the discussion.

Your medical records don't need to be accessed by all medical practitioners in the country, just your doctor. There is a difference in the privacy issue between giving your data to one doctor, and giving it to potentially every cop in the country.

Another issue is that there is such a think as a terrorist database that's too complete. After the Brussels attack, one thing that transpired was that the intelligence agency in charge of counter-terrorrism was receiving so much data from local law enforcement and the like they couldn't keep up. Not missing real terrorists while not overloading intelligence agencies is a real problem. Especially since maintaining such database draw manpower away from the infiltration and shadowing of potential terrorists too, jobs which are less sexy but are arguably more effective.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 05:32:49 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2016, 03:26:49 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 02:11:42 am

Security databases only need to be shared with security personnel, just like medical databases only news to be shared with medical personnel. I see no difference here that is relevant to the context of the discussion.

Your medical records don't need to be accessed by all medical practitioners in the country, just your doctor. There is a difference in the privacy issue between giving your data to one doctor, and giving it to potentially every cop in the country.

Medical records need to be accessed not just by your general doctor but by my doctor's overdoctor, his substitutes, the other doctors your doctor advise with, the stafett doctors you get if you don't have a doctor, your specialist doctors, emergency personnel, long term care personnel, and the nurses who will be the actually care for me. That's what medical databases is for. If there wasn't a need to share information then there wouldn't be any point of having a database.

Quote

Another issue is that there is such a think as a terrorist database that's too complete. After the Brussels attack, one thing that transpired was that the intelligence agency in charge of counter-terrorrism was receiving so much data from local law enforcement and the like they couldn't keep up. Not missing real terrorists while not overloading intelligence agencies is a real problem. Especially since maintaining such database draw manpower away from the infiltration and shadowing of potential terrorists too, jobs which are less sexy but are arguably more effective.

How fortunately then that the discussion is more about keeping databases of known football hooligans and using them during the weeks of the championship, than about terrorists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 06:44:56 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2016, 03:26:49 am

Your medical records don't need to be accessed by all medical practitioners in the country, just your doctor. There is a difference in the privacy issue between giving your data to one doctor, and giving it to potentially every cop in the country.

I don't know what made you think that. Quite the contrary, medical databases are specifically created to be shared between health professionals, with as main reason to prevent deaths from lethal combinations of medication.
It's already failing though, last week my newspaper reported on the database being shared with parties that have no business getting it (government employment office), and it's also already been hacked once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 06:53:08 am

Also you do get the dangerous situation where retards/news people/people who are as arab as terrorists get labeled as terrorists, like that one guy who the US intelligence lads were 100% certain was a terrorist because:

• Man was Pakistani Sunni
• Was known to travel in terrorist held areas frequently
• Had the contacts of people they knew were terrorists on his phone

So that sounds like a terrorist right? Man was a reporter, whose job was to interview terrorists
Also such a database is easy to abuse, a la Netherlands, USA or Erdobants

Quote from: Covenant on June 13, 2016, 06:18:34 pm

Newly-appointed Muslim mayor of London Sadiq Khan takes on his first big target - immodestly-dressed ladies on adverts (http://www.businessinsider.com/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-bans-unrealistic-body-images-from-tfl-adverts-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T). He's probably just kissing the feminist ring, but either way, it seems both foolish and remarkably ill-timed.

Lol I wonder at what point in life, someone got the bright idea to call obesity healthy, healthy unhealthy, and beauty unrealistic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 14, 2016, 07:11:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 06:53:08 am

Also you do get the dangerous situation where retards/news people/people who are as arab as terrorists get labeled as terrorists, like that one guy who the US intelligence lads were 100% certain was a terrorist because:

• Man was Pakistani Sunni
• Was known to travel in terrorist held areas frequently
• Had the contacts of people they knew were terrorists on his phone

So that sounds like a terrorist right? Man was a reporter, whose job was to interview terrorists
Also such a database is easy to abuse, a la Netherlands, USA or Erdobants

I'm quite sure mericans even called that system "Skynet" as well adding to the hilarity because they might have used it to start drone attacks on "terrorist targets" that had fuckall to do with terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 07:35:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 06:53:08 am

Quote from: Covenant on June 13, 2016, 06:18:34 pm

Newly-appointed Muslim mayor of London Sadiq Khan takes on his first big target - immodestly-dressed ladies on adverts (http://www.businessinsider.com/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-bans-unrealistic-body-images-from-tfl-adverts-2016-6?r=UK&IR=T). He's probably just kissing the feminist ring, but either way, it seems both foolish and remarkably ill-timed.

Lol I wonder at what point in life, someone got the bright idea to call obesity healthy, healthy unhealthy, and beauty unrealistic

I think it was about the time it was starting to become common knowledge how unhealthy lives models live, and how even after all that self abuse their bodies still aren't good enough to not be Photoshoped even thinner in the editing process.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

Not sure what's the problem with flagging that Al Jazeera reporter as a possible terrorist in the first place.

1) Nobody killed him, even though the NSA flagged him as a suspicious person for several years.

2) Contrary to what the populistic narrative says, the NSA knew he was a journalist. the suspicion was that he was both a terrorist and a Journalist.

3) There is still a very high chance that he is indeed a terrorist, or at least an accomplice to terrorists. it wouldn't be the first time a reporter helped terrorists. the article where he defends himself is incoherent ranging from the usual suggestions of conspiracy theories regarding bin laden's death and all the way to "potential political assasination attempt to help the Assad regime".

So, a suspicious reporter, guilty of possessing anti western conspiracy narratives, who is friends with terrorists, working for Al Jazeera, a Salafist network that is anything but objective is crying foul because he was flagged an enemy to the West. LMFAO.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 12:34:02 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 07:35:51 am

I think it was about the time it was starting to become common knowledge how unhealthy lives models live, and how even after all that self abuse their bodies still aren't good enough to not be Photoshoped even thinner in the editing process.

Are models a monolithic group

Anorexia is not beautiful

Quote from: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

Not sure what's the problem with flagging that Al Jazeera reporter as a possible terrorist in the first place.

False positives produce noise and reduce accuracy. They also increase the risk of innocents being targeted, so for example, someone who knew this reporter would be flagged as someone who is friends with a known terrorist, despite them just being friends with a journalist. Even if you support database of dissidents, terrorists and provocateurs, you must at the very least appreciate that the database must be accurate, otherwise you end up jumping at shadows

Quote from: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

1) Nobody killed him, even though the NSA flagged him as a suspicious person for several years.

That's not any consolation to any innocent people who were killed because they were suspicious

Also surveillance state issue
Speaking of which

Quote

"This software is another step towards a surveillance state," Abed Choudary of the Islamic Human Rights Commission told Al Jazeera.

"If we want to avoid a world in which students are constantly being spied on and encourage youthful curiosity, debate and freedom of speech, then we need to boycott this software," Choudary said.

One political activist told Al Jazeera he was shocked to discover he was listed as an "extremist individual" after his name was featured in a presentation about the software during last week's Impero event.

"What is it that I and other Muslim speakers say that constitutes extremism?" said Raza Nadim, a spokesman for the Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK (MPACUK), a civil liberties organisation that encourages Muslims to become more active in public life.

"MPACUK is one of the most vocal proponents for Muslims getting involved in the democratic process and engaging with the system and finding an outlet for their legitimate anger - and even we are being called extremist. If they have gone after me, then which other Muslim names are on the list? And who is left? Is it the people who agree with the government line?"  (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/10/uk-keyword-warning-software-schools-raises-red-flag-151004081940435.html)

I'm not bleeding in my heart or lolbering anywhere and I find this abhorrent. Make a tool that can be used in social engineering, it will be used in social engineering
I can already see how a database of potential violent threats can coincide with the push to redefine online insults as actual violence for example, heck in that article a Muslim kid was questioned over support for ISIS because he was into eco-activism
Any kid who plays CKII is fucked. How many kids will grow up never rolling the Abbasid through Andalusia, how many kids will never make the Ottoman Caliphate great again in ViccyII? You know, say what you will about Sweden, at least they let their Muslims play PI games without flagging them as ISIS supporters

Quote from: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

2) Contrary to what the populistic narrative says, the NSA knew he was a journalist. the suspicion was that he was both a terrorist and a Journalist.

Spoiler: not a consolation to anyone (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/N4Tq3as.gif)

Quote from: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

3) There is still a very high chance that he is indeed a terrorist, or at least an accomplice to terrorists. it wouldn't be the first time a reporter helped terrorists. the article where he defends himself is incoherent ranging from the usual suggestions of conspiracy theories regarding bin laden's death and all the way to "potential political assasination attempt to help the Assad regime".

Reporters are not meant to take state narratives for granted, that would make them state mouthpieces and completely defeats the purpose of freedom of the press

Quote from: Vilanat on June 14, 2016, 07:47:29 am

So, a suspicious reporter, guilty of possessing anti western conspiracy narratives, who is friends with terrorists, working for Al Jazeera, a Salafist network that is anything but objective is crying foul because he was flagged an enemy to the West. LMFAO.

Holy shit, guilty of possessing anti western conspiracy narratives
That literally applies to almost the entire right and left wing of the West

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on June 14, 2016, 12:36:10 pm

Also, the NSA's algorithm is necessarily like completely terrible due to the extremely small sample of terrorists...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 12:45:22 pm

So to help NSA, we need to breed more terrorists.

Spawn more Allahlords

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 12:54:48 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 12:45:22 pm

So to help NSA, we need to breed more terrorists.
Spawn more Allahlords

We require more vespene Syrian gas

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 14, 2016, 02:48:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 07:35:51 am

I think it was about the time it was starting to become common knowledge how unhealthy lives models live, and how even after all that self abuse their bodies still aren't good enough to not be Photoshoped even thinner in the editing process.

Here's what the article provided as an "unrealistic body image":

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/55408e36dd0895375f8b4573-1024/beach-body-ready.jpeg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 14, 2016, 02:53:18 pm

That's not unrealistic generally, but actually unrealistic for a lot of people.
The problem is with the dominance of one body type.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 02:54:45 pm

Tbh with 57% of women in the UK now obese, one wonders if that is now unobtainable for the majority of British women (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/29/how-obese-is-the-uk-obesity-rates-compare-other-countries)

Nothing can save us from these grimdark fish and chips

Quote from: Antsan on June 14, 2016, 02:53:18 pm

That's not unrealistic generally, but actually unrealistic for a lot of people.
The problem is with the dominance of one body type.

The problem with obesity being dominant is that it kills you, if it is dominant for the nation, this kills the nation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 14, 2016, 03:15:28 pm

I'm not saying obesity isn't a problem (it is a huge problem), but the body type most presented in the media (and there is one body type dominant) is not what most women should strive for to be healthy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2016, 03:19:46 pm

Well, that picture do look photoshopped as hell. I wonder how they'll decide what unrealistic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2016, 03:37:07 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 14, 2016, 02:48:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 07:35:51 am

I think it was about the time it was starting to become common knowledge how unhealthy lives models live, and how even after all that self abuse their bodies still aren't good enough to not be Photoshoped even thinner in the editing process.

Here's what the article provided as an "unrealistic body image":

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/55408e36dd0895375f8b4573-1024/beach-body-ready.jpeg)

Yes; I looked at the article.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 02:54:45 pm

Tbh with 57% of women in the UK now obese, one wonders if that is now unobtainable for the majority of British women (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/29/how-obese-is-the-uk-obesity-rates-compare-other-countries)

Nothing can save us from these grimdark fish and chips

Quote from: Antsan on June 14, 2016, 02:53:18 pm

That's not unrealistic generally, but actually unrealistic for a lot of people.
The problem is with the dominance of one body type.

The problem with obesity being dominant is that it kills you, if it is dominant for the nation, this kills the nation

You seem to be of the opinion that being against unhealthy body images equals being "pro-obesity". This is a misconception.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

Indeed. Being a bit chubby is not unhealthy. In fact it's a sign of good health. Being obese is not healthy, but that's something completely different as having a few pounds more than the average poster model. The girl from the poster, photoshopped or not, is unhealthily skinny. You can almost count all her ribs, her cheeks are collapsed inwards, her eyes pretty deep down the sockets, her hipbones touch the skin.

I you'd take off the bra and slip, shaved off her hair, and turned it into a black and white photo, she'd credibly pass as a concentration camp victim :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 04:18:51 pm

Quote from: Antsan on June 14, 2016, 03:15:28 pm

I'm not saying obesity isn't a problem (it is a huge problem), but the body type most presented in the media (and there is one body type dominant) is not what most women should strive for to be healthy.

>getting your health advice from adverts
m8 McDonals sells me the bullshit that they have food that counts as 5 a day and I'm not touching that crap

Also can you define this body type, I don't know what you're referring to there

Personally I think we should restrict scantily clad women and oiled up men doing that trouser pose thing on adverts above roadways in order to cut down cyclist deaths and road accidents
Tube adverts should be fine tho

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 03:37:07 pm

You seem to be of the opinion that being against unhealthy body images equals being "pro-obesity". This is a misconception.

I've only ever seen it be said by obese people complaining about healthism, asking for plus sized models to be on billboards to make them feel better about themselves. When that billboard first entered public controversy it was obese people complaining about it, when Jamelia from Loose Women said being obese wasn't healthy and that obese women should not be role models for young women she was harassed for fat shaming, and I lost faith in humanity when I sat through 15 minutes of an obese lady trying to tell a doctor she was fine on BBC morning news
In the UK, the two great debates concerning girls and body image (at least from the health point of view) is how to deal with obese Britain, and how to deal with declining smoking rates in all demographics except young girls who've been sold the message that smoking is sexy
Oh yeah, and there was Dove a while back who did a "no air-brush" advertising campaign, but everyone got bored of that. It'd be interesting to see if Dove's campaign made them loads of profit, I might check on that

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

Indeed. Being a bit chubby is not unhealthy. In fact it's a sign of good health. Being obese is not healthy, but that's something completely different as having a few pounds more than the average poster model. The girl from the poster, photoshopped or not, is unhealthily skinny. You can almost count all her ribs, her cheeks are collapsed inwards, her eyes pretty deep down the sockets.

Being a "bit chubby" has had it definition considerably stretched. The person from the poster is not unhealthily skinny and your analysis of her is emblematic in many regards. If this is about body types, please learn about the diversity of bodies before attacking someone for their genetics - not all fat is distributed in everyone's bodies in the same places, this is true for men, this is especially true for women (resulting in even more variance!). That model is Renee Somerfield, and she is a very healthy Vegan - one of the few the world has ever seen (ayyyyo). Seeing ribs is normal and I'm actually... Stunned, out of all the people in the world I've ever known who couldn't count their ribs who weren't overweight, that one was a bodybuilder who worked out to much. Seems as well, taller, lankier people and people with slim frames will always be able to count their ribs, like even I could get obese and the weight would go to my legs and guts and I'd still be counting ribs
You've not seen sunken eyes, and my fucking sides "collapsed cheeks"
Defined cheekbones aren't even unhealthy, they're gorgeous rarities of good genes xD
At any rate I've not seen any evidence to see sunken eyes or rib counting being unhealthy and the NHS had nothing to say on sunken eyes, cheekbones, and on rib counting it depends on where your fat is distributed in your body and how fat you are. Given how fit Renee is, she doesn't have excess and what she does have is mostly concentrated at breast and thigh level, whereas the rest of her body is toned muscle.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/fr7g4Hk.jpg)

Seriously when did healthy become unhealthy lol
I suppose this is more of an issue of a very angry minority who hate ectomorphs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 14, 2016, 08:28:40 pm

Uh, I see her shoulder blades, wtfskeletor, go back to death Mountain with the other unhealthy vegan maniacs. Now excuse me while I go eat bacon and cry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on June 14, 2016, 08:55:42 pm

Banning advertisements over a model that is thin but not proven to be unhealthy is anti-scientific, Puritan nonsense. That said, there are issues with the abuse of Photoshop to create unrealistic beauty standards, but they should not be addressed by demanding that models be fat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 14, 2016, 11:50:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

Indeed. Being a bit chubby is not unhealthy. In fact it's a sign of good health.

Chubbiness is an indicator of a lack of fitness; which is unhealthy. Obviously people have a fat layer but if there's enough there to be noticeable then there are some issues,

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

Being obese is not healthy

It's really sodding unhealthy, more so than being overweight, which is also sodding unhealthy

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

The girl from the poster, photoshopped or not, is unhealthily skinny. You can almost count all her ribs, her cheeks are collapsed inwards, her eyes pretty deep down the sockets, her hipbones touch the skin.

Unhealthily skinny you say (http://i.imgur.com/HstrCKh.jpg)

That girl is fit and slim. If that's unhealthy then fuck me, human race is doomed to look like the blob people in Wall-e

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 15, 2016, 01:48:26 am

I have enough excess central body fat to produce a pronounced spare tire, also it aparrently raises my risk of heart disease and diabetes even if it's only a few kilos of fat. However I only weigh 70 kgs and my ribs are fairly visible, especially if I make the pose that model is in on that picture. Am I too fat? Yes certainly, too thin? Actually yes, it's the lack of muscle tone that makes my ribs visible, that's not necessarily a bad thing though It has been shown that having decent muscle tone lowers risk of many health problems.   

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2016, 01:51:09 am

Good thing he didn't ban that one particular advert out of government fiat. But yeah, I'm not sure how you'd enforce such a ruling consistently. I wouldn't mind banning photoshop altogether from adverts, it'd be fun to see what they would come up with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 02:00:11 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 15, 2016, 01:51:09 am

Good thing he didn't ban that one particular advert out of government fiat. But yeah, I'm not sure how you'd enforce such a ruling consistently. I wouldn't mind banning photoshop altogether from adverts, it'd be fun to see what they would come up with.

GIMP, probably

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 15, 2016, 02:19:50 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 02:00:11 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 15, 2016, 01:51:09 am

Good thing he didn't ban that one particular advert out of government fiat. But yeah, I'm not sure how you'd enforce such a ruling consistently. I wouldn't mind banning photoshop altogether from adverts, it'd be fun to see what they would come up with.

GIMP, probably

Inb4 MS Paint

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 15, 2016, 03:03:40 am

They could just go back to airbrushing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on June 15, 2016, 04:22:35 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 15, 2016, 02:19:50 am

Inb4 MS Paint

Ban every advert that doesn't look like SBaHJ.
Public aesthetic greatly improved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antsan on June 15, 2016, 06:27:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2016, 04:18:51 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2016, 03:37:07 pm

You seem to be of the opinion that being against unhealthy body images equals being "pro-obesity". This is a misconception.

I've only ever seen it be said by obese people complaining about healthism, asking for plus sized models to be on billboards to make them feel better about themselves.

Sometimes you exhibit an astounding selective deafness. Of course these people exist, but they're not the only ones and displaying plus-size models is certainly not what I have in mind.

Quote

When that billboard first entered public controversy it was obese people complaining about it, when Jamelia from Loose Women said being obese wasn't healthy and that obese women should not be role models for young women she was harassed for fat shaming, and I lost faith in humanity when I sat through 15 minutes of an obese lady trying to tell a doctor she was fine on BBC morning news

I don't care about that particular billboard and I didn't read the linked article. In the end advertising is bad in itself.

No, "a bit chubby" is not the same as "a lack of fitness". Misconceptions like this is why advertising like that is bad.
The problem is exactly that people shouldn't take any kind of advise from advertising and yet advertising is made to influence people. It's ridiculous when people claim that somehow being able to influence people this greatly shouldn't come with some responsibilities, or even go on with "well, you cannot be this responsible" and yet think that advertising is a great idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 15, 2016, 06:37:24 am

Quote from: Antsan on June 15, 2016, 06:27:51 am

I don't care about that particular billboard and I didn't read the linked article. In the end advertising is bad in itself.

Astounding selective deafness

Quote from: Antsan on June 15, 2016, 06:27:51 am

No, "a bit chubby" is not the same as "a lack of fitness".

How chubby is chubby? Chubbiness happens when people overeat and under-exercise.

Quote from: Antsan on June 15, 2016, 06:27:51 am

It's ridiculous when people claim that somehow being able to influence people this greatly shouldn't come with some responsibilities.

Of course advertising comes with responsibilities. The issue here is that people are calling pictures of people who are fit and healthy "unrealistic" and shouldn't be promoted. Which you would realise if you read the article.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 01:56:46 pm

Hahaha, mein healthy sides

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm

Indeed. Being a bit chubby is not unhealthy. In fact it's a sign of good health. Being obese is not healthy, but that's something completely different as having a few pounds more than the average poster model. The girl from the poster, photoshopped or not, is unhealthily skinny. You can almost count all her ribs, her cheeks are collapsed inwards, her eyes pretty deep down the sockets, her hipbones touch the skin.

I you'd take off the bra and slip, shaved off her hair, and turned it into a black and white photo, she'd credibly pass as a concentration camp victim :P

I just noticed this gem and I'll point out that if I pulled that pose, you could easily count all my ribs and I'm slightly overweight and deeply unfit.


On a more EU note, Germany announced it is cracking down on underage and polygamic marriage in recent arrivals (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36537305)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 15, 2016, 02:37:22 pm

 I think it is a very good idea to have 2018 football world cup in Russia. After all great guys organize it.  (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36539018)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 02:40:39 pm

Quote

But in practice polygamous relationships are often quietly tolerated, the paper reports. For example, if a man dies, his inheritance may be distributed between his two wives.
But Mr Maas wants to stop authorities turning a blind eye.
"Everybody must abide by the law, no matter whether he has grown up here or has only just arrived," he told the tabloid.
This also applies to forced and underage marriages.
"We cannot tolerate forced marriages, above all, if they affect under-age girls," Mr Maas said.
Bild reports that the federal state of Bavaria alone has registered 550 cases of brides aged under 18, and 161 under 16, among the asylum seekers that have arrived in the recent migrant wave.
In most of these cases, the young girls were already married before their arrival in Germany.
A court in the city of Bamberg recently decided that the marriage of a 15-year-old girl to a 21-year-old man, conducted under Syrian jurisdiction, could be regarded as legal in Germany.
In Germany the minimum age for marriage is 18, but it is possible for a young person aged 16 or 17 to marry, if a family court gives consent, and the other party to the marriage is at least 18.

JUSTice Minister: 0
Tolerance:        1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 15, 2016, 02:42:03 pm

I don't even know why is there such a big obsession with football in Russia. It's, like, the sport in which we're absolutely in the shitters, every other one we do better, significantly - but nooooo, they just have to like the fucking football!

How many times our football team has to lose like chumps, until the people get the idea that maybe football just isn't our forte, and switch to liking something that we're actually better at, like volleyball?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 03:02:38 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 15, 2016, 02:42:03 pm

I don't even know why is there such a big obsession with football in Russia. It's, like, the sport in which we're absolutely in the shitters, every other one we do better, significantly - but nooooo, they just have to like the fucking football!

Football has the largest stadiums, thus the largest battel arena

Quote from: Sergarr on June 15, 2016, 02:42:03 pm

How many times our football team has to lose like chumps, until the people get the idea that maybe football just isn't our forte, and switch to liking something that we're actually better at, like volleyball?

Or weights, squats and going to space
I do recall that one Roman Emperor, who thanked the gods that he was not a fervent fan of either the blues or the greens

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 15, 2016, 03:44:07 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

On a more EU note, Germany announced it is cracking down on underage and polygamic marriage in recent arrivals (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36537305)

Quote

Syrian "child brides" and international law
"Alarming increase" in number of child marriages within Syrian refugee communities in Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon, says Save the Children
It is argued that marriage protects the girls from sexual assault and other hardship
It is also seen as safeguarding family honour
It reduces economic burden on refugee families

Yeah, pretty nice example of why we shouldn't leave those people in refugee camps IMO. Although I do wonder how he plans to fight polygamy from a legal standpoints. For child bride, you can refuse to recognize the marriage, maybe even bring statutory rape charge for the more extreme case, but it's not like those polygamous marriages are recognized now. The article cite several wife sharing one's inheritance, but I fail to see how preventing some of the wives from getting inheritance money would make the situation less worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on June 15, 2016, 03:47:44 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on June 15, 2016, 02:42:03 pm

I don't even know why is there such a big obsession with football in Russia. It's, like, the sport in which we're absolutely in the shitters, every other one we do better, significantly - but nooooo, they just have to like the fucking football!

How many times our football team has to lose like chumps, until the people get the idea that maybe football just isn't our forte, and switch to liking something that we're actually better at, like volleyball?

I thought Ice Hockey was your thing. I mean, that has the fighting built right into it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 04:02:46 pm

EgyptAir debris & probbably wreck sites found, Apparently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36543969)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 04:24:33 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 04:02:46 pm

EgyptAir debris & probbably wreck sites found, Apparently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36543969)

Still no black box? Also in the sidebar of that article I'm quite surprised the Pistorious trial is still going on (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36537518)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on June 15, 2016, 04:41:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 04:24:33 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 15, 2016, 04:02:46 pm

EgyptAir debris & probbably wreck sites found, Apparently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36543969)

Still no black box? Also in the sidebar of that article I'm quite surprised the Pistorious trial is still going on (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36537518)

Yep, because the homicide judgment was overturned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 15, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160507/1039228442/poland-refugees-politician.html

I wasn't sure whether this belongs in the WTF thread or here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2016, 05:39:19 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 15, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160507/1039228442/poland-refugees-politician.html

I wasn't sure whether this belongs in the WTF thread or here.

Wait, you mean to tell me this isn't WTF thread: euro edition?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 15, 2016, 05:43:00 pm

Quote from: Teneb on June 15, 2016, 05:39:19 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 15, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160507/1039228442/poland-refugees-politician.html

I wasn't sure whether this belongs in the WTF thread or here.

Wait, you mean to tell me this isn't WTF thread: euro edition?

That's why it ended up here. Lehistan is in europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 05:54:26 pm

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 15, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160507/1039228442/poland-refugees-politician.html

I wasn't sure whether this belongs in the WTF thread or here.

Germans already did that

Shucks Poles, get with the current year (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/12/the-latest-german-military-could-help-train-syrian/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on June 15, 2016, 09:33:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 15, 2016, 02:40:39 pm

Quote

But in practice polygamous relationships are often quietly tolerated, the paper reports. For example, if a man dies, his inheritance may be distributed between his two wives.
But Mr Maas wants to stop authorities turning a blind eye.
"Everybody must abide by the law, no matter whether he has grown up here or has only just arrived," he told the tabloid.
This also applies to forced and underage marriages.
"We cannot tolerate forced marriages, above all, if they affect under-age girls," Mr Maas said.
Bild reports that the federal state of Bavaria alone has registered 550 cases of brides aged under 18, and 161 under 16, among the asylum seekers that have arrived in the recent migrant wave.
In most of these cases, the young girls were already married before their arrival in Germany.
A court in the city of Bamberg recently decided that the marriage of a 15-year-old girl to a 21-year-old man, conducted under Syrian jurisdiction, could be regarded as legal in Germany.
In Germany the minimum age for marriage is 18, but it is possible for a young person aged 16 or 17 to marry, if a family court gives consent, and the other party to the marriage is at least 18.

JUSTice Minister: 0
Tolerance:        1

Taken Maas long enough to say *something*. He is a pathetic excuse for a man and a politician.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on June 16, 2016, 02:07:37 am

I dont, why we even needed the olympics and football, it is just throwing money out of the window, why did not our country let someone else do that instead of us?  :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 16, 2016, 02:18:52 am

There's a myriad of reasons why sporting competitions are good. It provides a boost to the local economy with all the people visiting. It lets people join together in nationalistic pride. It's also fun for... most people, who enjoy watching their faviote athletes and teams.
Sure, it's expensive, and certainly not essential, but anyone who thinks expenditure should be limited to things that are purely essential can go live in a tent and eat hardtack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 16, 2016, 07:28:13 am

So, there is a rather nice tax reform package being passed at the EU level (although the Czech finance minister is almost single-handedly blocking it at the moment, because sadly the EU can't easily overrule national government, unlike what the Eurosceptics here would have you believe.
 (http://www.politico.eu/pro/corporate-brussels-tax-dodger-czech-threatens-eu-tax-revamp/)
Who said nothing would come out of the Luxleak?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 16, 2016, 10:48:32 am

Mars Rover is being floated until they can work out the rest of its funding (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36540259)

UK MP critically wounded by gun and knife attack (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on June 16, 2016, 06:14:51 pm

UK MP is now dead, may she rest in peace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on June 16, 2016, 06:17:37 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on June 16, 2016, 06:14:51 pm

UK MP is now dead, may she rest in peace.

Indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 16, 2016, 06:22:16 pm

:(

It feels weird to read about someone being injured and find out minutes later that they're dead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 16, 2016, 07:12:16 pm

That's not good at all.

Quote

One eyewitness told the BBC they heard her attacker shout "put Britain first" at least twice beforehand.

Nationalistic pride amirite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 16, 2016, 09:43:20 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 16, 2016, 07:12:16 pm

Quote

One eyewitness told the BBC they heard her attacker shout "put Britain first" at least twice beforehand.

Nationalistic pride amirite

The guy who claims that (and there is just one guy who claims that) says this:

Quote

“I heard the shot and I ran outside and saw some ladies from the cafe running out with towels,” he said. “There was loads of screaming and shouting and the police officers showed up.
“He was shouting ‘Britain first’ when he was doing it and being arrested. He was pinned down by two police officers and she was taken away in an ambulance.”

which considering the arrest and the actual shooting had two miles between them, is probably bullshit. Most of the sites that originally reported that have since taken it down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 01:37:03 am

I've seen some sites claiming more than one witnesses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 17, 2016, 01:59:17 am

The guy was apparently mentally ill and involved in some far-right media, so whether or not he actually said that, I think my comment is fair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 02:20:27 am

Britain First denounce the violence (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3645342/Britain-denies-connection-attacker-witnesses-claimed-shouted-support-party-killing-MP-Jo-Cox.html). "The group's leader, former British National Party councillor Paul Golding, claimed the attacker could have shouted 'It's time to put Britain first"

Party of Peace, amirite?


There is also two named eyewitnesses that claims he said it for all its worth. (http://news.forexlive.com/!/multiple-named-witnesses-say-jo-cox-shooter-was-shouting-britain-first-20160616)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

So apparently the killer did have far-right links, and had bought a few hundred dollars worth of books from the Neo-nazi "National Alliance" (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance), including books on how to make pipe pistols. It's highly possible his decision to murder Jo Cox had more to do with her support of Syrian refugees than with the referendum. A less effective Breivik one might say.

Edit: Ooops, sorry for the double post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 17, 2016, 05:05:47 am

As more stuff gets revealed, the chances he planned his attack and acted out of a political agenda are rising. my beef with the media is how quickly they rushed to determine that, issuing opinion pieces and throwing out accusations not two hours after the MP died of her wounds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on June 17, 2016, 05:21:26 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

So apparently the killer did have far-right links, and had bought a few hundred dollars worth of books from the Neo-nazi "National Alliance" (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance), including books on how to make pipe pistols. It's highly possible his decision to murder Jo Cox had more to do with her support of Syrian refugees than with the referendum. A less effective Breivik one might say.

Edit: Ooops, sorry for the double post.

He wanted to get certain politician asassinated - he got it done. Pretty effecient, huh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 05:29:02 am

I disagree vilanat. Take that Guardian piece about 'dark day for democracy' or whatever. The point they make is that MPs getting killed is bad for democracy. What kind of info do they need to confirm that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 17, 2016, 05:52:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

A less effective Breivik one might say.

No.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 17, 2016, 05:57:31 am

Breivik gets his own category of despicable for shooting children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 05:58:31 am

Quote from: scriver on June 17, 2016, 05:52:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

A less effective Breivik one might say.

No.

Can't compare a lone extremist killing a politician with a nazi monster who killed dozens of children and wrote a whole manifesto announcing and defending it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 06:54:27 am

Breivik didn't go into a school and start shooting children at random, he was targeting the youth leagues of the centre-left party (so, teenagers and young adults, less than half of the Utoya victims were minors, most of them 16 or 17). His target was the future leadership of the party.

So yeah, I do see a parallel between a far-right asshole shooting the future leadership of a center-left party he sees as pro-immigration and a far-right asshole shooting a pro-refugees MP of a center-left party. Although to be fair, that only assuming he went after Jo Cox for her immigration positions, which is a bit early to tell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 17, 2016, 07:42:01 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 05:58:31 am

Quote from: scriver on June 17, 2016, 05:52:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

A less effective Breivik one might say.

No.

Can't compare a lone extremist killing a politician with a nazi monster who killed dozens of children and wrote a whole manifesto announcing and defending it.

Teenagers involved in politics are not children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 17, 2016, 07:50:22 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on June 17, 2016, 07:42:01 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 05:58:31 am

Quote from: scriver on June 17, 2016, 05:52:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 04:34:29 am

A less effective Breivik one might say.

No.

Can't compare a lone extremist killing a politician with a nazi monster who killed dozens of children and wrote a whole manifesto announcing and defending it.

Teenagers involved in politics are not children.

In fact they are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 17, 2016, 07:56:07 am

Depends on how you define 'children'. A simple age cutoff is a bit too unsophisticated, methinks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 08:23:32 am

I'm quite sure the cutoff for children is at 18 years after that they become young adults.
You could go by the age of puberty but if you go with that then... well would you say a 14 year old is not a child?

Still point was that Breivik specifically targeted UNDERAGE people and that's fucking reprehensible no matter if they had 8 12 or 16 yers under their belt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 17, 2016, 08:36:29 am

Would you all be applauding him if the camp was for adults? I don't think it matters whether or not they were children, teenagers, young adults or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 08:41:51 am

We'd cheer for him as much as we cheered for Omar Mateen. (Not at all.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 17, 2016, 08:46:25 am

Sorry, I was just a bit frustrated y'all were arguing what constitutes a child when he killed 77 people. He's an evil bastard for that, never mind if any of them were children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 09:14:47 am

Well even muslims consider killing children as more of a sin than killing adults.
There's this "protect the children" instinct in all of us. so killing 10 adults is bad but killing 10 children is even worse in the eyes of most of us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 17, 2016, 09:27:37 am

Quote from: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 09:14:47 am

Well even muslims consider killing children as more of a sin than killing adults.
There's this "protect the children" instinct in all of us. so killing 10 adults is bad but killing 10 children is even worse in the eyes of most of us.

What about killing armed hitlerjugends in WW2? Was it worse than killing adult German soldiers?

They are politicians and this make them a legitimate target for political terrorism.

Before you ask: No, I don't think that Breivik had any reason to do that. Norway is a democratic country and requires no terrorism for political struggle. Oh, and one who dragged children in politics (a very nasty place to be) share the guilt of their death.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 09:53:03 am

There is a rather large difference between shooting armed children who WILL shoot you and shooting underage political activists.
When you arm kids and force/brainwash them into becoming child soldiers you EXPECT them getting shot and killed AND force your opponent into child killing (because what other choice do they have exactly?).

How does that even marginally compare?

You could say those kids were "political soldiers" but you don't bring a warhammer into o fencing tournament and no one forces you to bash in the skull of your competitor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 17, 2016, 10:13:32 am

Ok, anyway, everyone agree that he was an asshole, a semantic discussion on what is a kid wont help.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 10:30:41 am

Doctors Without Borders decided today that they will no longer accept funding from the EU, or from any member state of the EU. Starting immediatly, they will boycot all EU funds.
According to their secretary-general Jêrome Oberreit, the reason for this is, that they think the EU refugee policy is failing.
"This is about being ashamed for refugees in Europe. The EU policy's most important component is keeping refugees out", he said.

The direct cause for the decision was the fact that the EU is preparing to make similar deals with other countries in the Middle East and Africa, like the one they made with Turkey, which was strongly opposed by DWB.
According to DWB, the financial aid paid to Turkey as agreed in the deal, is only a reward for improved border control and stopping refugees.
"Nothing about the refugee agreement is even only slightly humanitarian, this has to be contested.", Oberreit says.
"We cannot both take money from the EU, and aid victims of their refugee policy at the same time".

DWB argues that the refugee deal sets a dangerous precedent. Last week, the European Commission announced that they are preparing to make deals with 16 more countries in Africa and the Middle East, to both stop and take back refugees, in exchange for developmental aid.
Amongst those 16 countries are Sudan, Eritreia, Somalia and Afghanistan.
These 4 countries are the top 4 of refugee generating countries in the world.

"Is the only thing Europe has to offer to refugees, to stay in the countries they are desperatly trying to escape?" Oberreit asks.

It is estimated that the refusal of EU and EU member state funding will costs DWB 50 million Euro per year.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/artsen-zonder-grenzen-weigert-vanaf-nu-eu-geld-vluchtelingenbeleid-faalt~a4322272/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/artsen-zonder-grenzen-weigert-vanaf-nu-eu-geld-vluchtelingenbeleid-faalt~a4322272/)



Personally, I think this is dumb. Doctors need to care about their patients, not about politics. 50 million euros equals a lot of dead people that did not get their aid. Plus, the refugee crisis is a global problem. I wonder if they stop accepting funding from Australia, Canada, Russia, most of Asia, most rich Arab countries, basically all countries that don't welcome refugees at all, too. Bit hypocritical to specifically scapegoat EU funds there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on June 17, 2016, 10:34:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 10:30:41 am

Personally, I think this is dumb. Doctors need to care about their patients, not about politics. Plus, the refugee crisis is a global problem. I wonder if they stop accepting funding from Australia, Canada, Russia, most of Asia, most rich Arab countries, basically all countries that don't welcome refugees at all, too. Bit hypocritical to specifically scapegoat EU funds there.

That was literally my thoughts as I was reading before I noticed this bit. Might just be poorly considered grandstanding, but it seems like something iffy is going on behind the scenes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 17, 2016, 10:39:59 am

Quote from: scrdest on June 17, 2016, 10:34:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 10:30:41 am

Personally, I think this is dumb. Doctors need to care about their patients, not about politics. Plus, the refugee crisis is a global problem. I wonder if they stop accepting funding from Australia, Canada, Russia, most of Asia, most rich Arab countries, basically all countries that don't welcome refugees at all, too. Bit hypocritical to specifically scapegoat EU funds there.

That was literally my thoughts as I was reading before I noticed this bit. Might just be poorly considered grandstanding, but it seems like something iffy is going on behind the scenes.

This, also I find the solution of the European Commission a lot better than letting thousands drown on the Mediterranean Sea every year, which is literally the situation we have now and will continue too have if we allow refugees to enter by boat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 17, 2016, 10:50:03 am

Quote from: Antioch on June 17, 2016, 10:39:59 am

Quote from: scrdest on June 17, 2016, 10:34:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 17, 2016, 10:30:41 am

Personally, I think this is dumb. Doctors need to care about their patients, not about politics. Plus, the refugee crisis is a global problem. I wonder if they stop accepting funding from Australia, Canada, Russia, most of Asia, most rich Arab countries, basically all countries that don't welcome refugees at all, too. Bit hypocritical to specifically scapegoat EU funds there.

That was literally my thoughts as I was reading before I noticed this bit. Might just be poorly considered grandstanding, but it seems like something iffy is going on behind the scenes.

This, also I find the solution of the European Commission a lot better than letting thousands drown on the Mediterranean Sea every year, which is literally the situation we have now and will continue too have if we allow refugees to enter by boat.

Obviously the laws that are enacted in Europe are going to stop the refugees trying to do that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sonlirain on June 17, 2016, 11:36:08 am

Well if DWB is not interested in eurofunds and would rather put europeans in an emotional chokeholdhold then they obviously don't need the money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 17, 2016, 05:33:12 pm

Quote from: hector13 on June 17, 2016, 10:50:03 am

Obviously the laws that are enacted in Europe are going to stop the refugees trying to do that.

What laws? Doors only open in Europe, don't be racist

Also lol:

Quote

Immigration, immigration, immigration. That's what it's really all about. That's what will decide the EU referendum next week. It would be easier if it was the economy, stupid. We could talk about GP and impersonal financial forecasts but it's that political hot potato we need to grapple with. Is it ever possible to discuss immigration without being accused or caism? Or perhaps more accurately, is it ever possible to raise concerns about or call for less immigration and not be labelled a racist?

There are startling elisions on both sides of the debate. Migration from within the EU, from predominantly Eastern European countries, is overwhelmingly, if not completely, white. Yet the most fervent voices against more foreigners coming in are probably picturing black and brown faces when they talk about "taking our country back".
Both camps have been disingenuous. Leavers pandering to those fears but unable to deliver a remedy and Remainers dismissing all concerns about immigration as xenophobic or racist. EU migration isn't about race but the racism card has been played repeatedly. White audiences often seem surprised when black and Asian Britons say they want fewer immigrants. [Chuckling_LW.jpg]

Maybe it is proof that we have successfully integrated and feel we belong, or maybe we feel we have more to lose because we are lower down the social pecking order, or maybe it is just because we can air these views without being accused of racism [Probably lel]. All immigrants are not the same. Each wave brings its own unique benefits and challenges. The latest wave has had the unintended effect, or perhaps even intended effect, of whitening-up the immigrant workforce.
It goes hand-in-hand with another, more important, concern, which is assimilation.

For some, a third, fourth or even fifth-generation Pakistani-Briton is more of an outsider than a fresh, off-the-coach [note, today we say fresh off boat] Pole. And as easy and satisfying as it would be to dismiss that view as racist, there is an element of truth to it. Within a generation that Polish immigrant's child wiill be seen as a white Brit, with a slightly exotic name, perhaps, but "one of us" nonetheless, the cultural, religious and racial leap is a smaller one to make from Poland to Britain than Pakistan to Britain.

So if you are a racist you'd probably be better off voting Remain so we can get more white immigrants. And if you're worried about being racist than you should probably vote out so that we can have more non-EU migration. Like everything else about this referendum, it's as clear as mud.

Rashid Razaq
London Evening Standard

Well now, Rashid pretty much summed up the general stuff of everything I ever say

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 23, 2016, 09:43:50 am

In the German city of Viernheim, a heavily armed masked man has bunkered up in a cinema. According to Darmstadter Echo, there could be 20 to 50 people wounded. According to the police, the man entered the library at 15:00 (a little under two hours ago). Police have sealed off the area around the cinema. No further details are known yet.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/-gewapende-man-in-duitse-bioscoop-meerdere-gewonden~a4326263/
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/schuesse-in-viernheimer-kino-bewaffneter-verschanzt-sich-offenbar-mehrere-verletzte-14304218.html
http://www.echo-online.de/lokales/nachrichten-rhein-neckar/unklare-bedrohungslage-im-kinopolis-in-viernheim-mann-mit-schusswaffen-unterwegs_17018115.htm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 23, 2016, 09:47:16 am

English article for the non-German speakers. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36610068)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 23, 2016, 09:57:10 am

In other news, sultan Erdogan said today, that he considers asking the people of Turkey in a referendum if they actually want to continue the process of joining the EU.
"we could rise up, and ask the people, just like the British are doing now", he said, expressing frustration about the difficult negotiations with the EU, and the attitude of Brussels.
"We should ask if we should continue those negotiations, or just end them and move on. If the people want us to continue, we'll continue".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 23, 2016, 09:59:20 am

I wish he'd make up his mind on whether he's an autocrat or not

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 23, 2016, 10:19:30 am

The gunperson in Viernheim has been shot, the radio said.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2016, 10:57:15 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 23, 2016, 09:59:20 am

I wish he'd make up his mind on whether he's an autocrat or not

Napoleon showed it's perfectly acceptable to use referendums and not lose autocracy cred

Quote from: Sheb on June 23, 2016, 10:19:30 am

The gunperson in Viernheim has been shot, the radio said.

He didn't kill anybody too (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36610068)
Bit of an odd one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 23, 2016, 11:05:42 am

I have no idea why Turkey would still even want to join the EU, since its rather incompatible with Erdogan playing dictator and I have no idea why the EU would want Turkey to join.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 23, 2016, 11:14:12 am

Well, "the EU" is vague. A bunch of governments, the Germans included have said like 10 years ago they don't want Turkey in. And EU expansion needs a majority. The best reason to want Turkey to complete the membership process is that it'd force Turkey to become more democratic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 24, 2016, 06:14:18 am

Turkey'd probably be better off joining the Islamic Union or whatever it's called.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 24, 2016, 06:23:23 am

It's already a member.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 24, 2016, 07:54:24 am

Can it join both the EU and the Islamic Union thingy? That seems... counterproductive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on June 24, 2016, 08:11:54 am

2014 (well, almost 2015) - Donald Tusk becomes President of the European Council.
2016 - European Union starts to fall apart.

We destroyed Communism in 45 years, we will destroy European Union in 15 tops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 24, 2016, 08:18:15 am

Orange Wizar: the Organization of the Islamic Conference doesn't really have much in common with the EU, it's just a talking shop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 24, 2016, 08:58:44 am

Quote from: Kot on June 24, 2016, 08:11:54 am

We destroyed Communism

kek

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 24, 2016, 09:50:25 am

Quote from: Kot on June 24, 2016, 08:11:54 am

We destroyed Communism

Comrades! To the pitchforks with this capitalist pigdog traitor! What do you think the "Union"in EU stands for?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on June 24, 2016, 10:11:18 am

(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/thefutureofeuropes/images/2/2f/Fascist-poland.png/revision/latest?cb=20151223184343)
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Fun fact - during 2007 elections NOP slogan was "Fascism? We are worse!". It went as well as you could expect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2016, 10:21:04 am

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/
wat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 10:01:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2016, 10:21:04 am

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/
wat

So looking at their map, they just want the shitty uninhabitable desert part of the planet?
:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on June 25, 2016, 01:28:47 pm

Quote from: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 10:01:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2016, 10:21:04 am

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/
wat

So looking at their map, they just want the shitty uninhabitable desert part of the planet?
:(

Just like ISIS do. *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 02:45:39 pm

They missed a big chunk of desert in central Australia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 25, 2016, 02:50:22 pm

Quote from: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 10:01:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2016, 10:21:04 am

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/
wat

So looking at their map, they just want the shitty uninhabitable desert part of the planet?
:(

They include mesopotamia, the nile valley, persia, india and SE asia in that map, none of which are deserts. Heck, quite a few of them are outrageously fertile.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 25, 2016, 07:07:09 pm

OUR PROPHET (SAAS) HAS ENTRUSTED THE WHOLE ISLAMIC WORLD TO THE TURKS

EVERYONE WILL EMBRACE THE TURKISH-ISLAMIC UNION

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 08:56:29 pm

Quote from: Teneb on June 25, 2016, 02:50:22 pm

Quote from: MarcAFK on June 25, 2016, 10:01:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2016, 10:21:04 am

http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/
wat

So looking at their map, they just want the shitty uninhabitable desert part of the planet?
:(

They include mesopotamia, the nile valley, persia, india and SE asia in that map, none of which are deserts. Heck, quite a few of them are outrageously fertile.

And the other parts will only get wetter and more valuable with global warming. You see now why they give us cheap oil?
#Islaminaticonformed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2016, 03:05:07 am

Support Global Warming Now For Better Rainforests! Donate to globalwarming@wwf, or just make an extra 100 mile round trip with your diesel truck!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 26, 2016, 05:02:48 am

What's up with the northeasternmost Asia claim? As far as I know, there's no Muslim presence there either modern or historical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 26, 2016, 05:07:25 am

Would make more sense for them to claim London.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 26, 2016, 06:06:30 am

Quote from: scriver on June 26, 2016, 05:02:48 am

What's up with the northeasternmost Asia claim? As far as I know, there's no Muslim presence there either modern or historical.

The Prophet slipped with his Holy Paintbrush. So now its Turkilamist clay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on June 26, 2016, 06:11:08 am

Quote from: scriver on June 26, 2016, 05:02:48 am

What's up with the northeasternmost Asia claim? As far as I know, there's no Muslim presence there either modern or historical.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://gpf-europe.com/upload/iblock/cac/russian%20energy%20at%20a%20glance%202007.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 26, 2016, 09:24:34 am

It rather noticeably claims loads of Christian Africa that just so happens to be oil and mineral rich

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 26, 2016, 10:35:03 am

I'm also noticing a brown field over the northern parts of the Japanese archipelago-line - I guess that explains why Japan and Russia are so adamant about getting those for themselves too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 29, 2016, 12:52:04 am

36 deads in IS attack on Istanbul Airport. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36658187?SThisFB)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 29, 2016, 01:45:22 am

Number's been updated to 50 ish IIRC. Horrible stuff.

Also, IS didn't actually claim responsibility, so maybe it wasn't them? Kinda hard to say what counts and what doesn't, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 29, 2016, 07:33:46 am

IS should be really happy that they're not recognized as a state by the UN. Or else Turkey (or any other NATO member that suffers a terrorist attack by IS) could scream article 5, and NATO would have to declare war on IS officially.

So, no, I'm not supporting terrorist organisations when I say that I would like the UN to recognize IS as an official state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2016, 08:27:59 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 29, 2016, 01:45:22 am

Number's been updated to 50 ish IIRC. Horrible stuff.

Also, IS didn't actually claim responsibility, so maybe it wasn't them? Kinda hard to say what counts and what doesn't, I guess.

Quote

The lack of any immediate claim for this attack by so-called Islamic State is not surprising. IS rarely, if ever, claims responsibility for attacks against the Turkish state yet it is quick to advertise its assassinations of Syrian activists inside Turkey.

All the signs point towards IS being the culprits. This is what British counter-terrorism officials term "a marauding terrorist firearms attack", following a pattern first seen in the Mumbai attacks of 2008.

The next suspect are the Kurds but

Quote

Turkey's other main foe, Kurdish separatists, have carried out many attacks over the years but their primary targets have tended to be Turkish policemen and soldiers.

Probably ISIS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 29, 2016, 12:32:19 pm

Since we're speaking about Turkey, Erdogan has finally apologized for shooting down a Russian jet. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36663127) Looks like Turkey's position was not as strong as he imagined it several months before...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 30, 2016, 05:05:32 am

I don't think it's that Sergarr. It's more like Erdogan being a pragmatist. Relations with EU worsened lately, Erdogan even proposed a referendum to ask the Turks if they want to continue the join the EU process at all. Improving relations with Russia fits in that line. EU's worst nightmare would be to lose influence over the Gate to Europe. Or worse, Turkey leaving NATO.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on June 30, 2016, 05:19:35 am

+1 to above. Plus he wants Russian tourists and Russian markets back.

Yet he forgets number one rule of world politics - friendship\cooperation with Russia never ends well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on June 30, 2016, 05:41:31 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on June 30, 2016, 05:19:35 am

Yet he forgets number one rule of world politics - friendship\cooperation with Russia never ends well.

China seems to be doing pretty well at the moment...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on June 30, 2016, 08:59:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 29, 2016, 07:33:46 am

IS should be really happy that they're not recognized as a state by the UN. Or else Turkey (or any other NATO member that suffers a terrorist attack by IS) could scream article 5, and NATO would have to declare war on IS officially.

So, no, I'm not supporting terrorist organisations when I say that I would like the UN to recognize IS as an official state.

Oh boy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on June 30, 2016, 10:16:59 am

It does not look like anyone except iran and syria want to really engage isis in any way except dropping few bombs from above.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 30, 2016, 10:19:49 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on June 30, 2016, 10:16:59 am

It does not look like anyone except iran and syria want to really engage isis in any way except dropping few bombs from above.

It is because engaging terrorists is a HUGE slog... especially where ISIS is located.

Basically... You remember playing Diablo with the succubi who would fire bloodstars at you and then run away whenever you go towards them only for other ones to harass you in the back? Yeah imagine them if they also had the Zerg burrow ability from StarCraft 2.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on June 30, 2016, 10:56:10 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on June 30, 2016, 10:16:59 am

It does not look like anyone except iran and syria want to really engage isis in any way except dropping few bombs from above.

If the West, led by the Untied States, engaged in a serious ground effort to combat them, ISIS would get a tremendous morale boost, would get flooded in locals and foreigners joining them and would ensure that their image as Islamic liberators fighting against infidels and crusaders would further entrench itself within muslim minds.

Besides, the West spends considerably more funds and resources on fighting ISIS than Iran or Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on June 30, 2016, 03:45:58 pm

They could always take the Trump approach and just wall in all of the middle east. Then open it up after a couple hundred years to see if anything survived the infighting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 30, 2016, 09:51:38 pm

IMO the best approach is basically what Russia's doing - support the local governments until the civil war is tidied up, then we can worry about encouraging them to become less barbaric and repressive.

Or maybe just give everything to Lebanon, they seem to be doing okay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on July 01, 2016, 02:17:30 am

Quote from: Vilanat on June 30, 2016, 10:56:10 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on June 30, 2016, 10:16:59 am

It does not look like anyone except iran and syria want to really engage isis in any way except dropping few bombs from above.

If the West, led by the Untied States, engaged in a serious ground effort to combat them, ISIS would get a tremendous morale boost, would get flooded in locals and foreigners joining them and would ensure that their image as Islamic liberators fighting against infidels and crusaders would further entrench itself within muslim minds.

Besides, the West spends considerably more funds and resources on fighting ISIS than Iran or Russia.

Fancy atgms and other stuff provided to moderate rebels somehow gets into the hands of radicals. Same way as all the fancy stuff given to Iraq army is now property of isis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 01, 2016, 03:29:55 am

Right, Sure, it happened, it happens and it will continue to happen. so? i am willing to put a bet that most of ISIS weaponry is still Eastern, mostly Russian, manufactured and the West funding that went into actually fighting ISIS is still more considerable than the Funds Iran/Assad and Russia put into fighting ISIS.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 30, 2016, 09:51:38 pm

IMO the best approach is basically what Russia's doing - support the local governments until the civil war is tidied up, then we can worry about encouraging them to become less barbaric and repressive.

Or maybe just give everything to Lebanon, they seem to be doing okay.

Lebanon is in a political stagnation that is caused by the defacto occupation of Iran through the terrorist organization Hezbollah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2016, 03:33:46 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 01, 2016, 03:29:55 am

Lebanon is in a political stagnation that is caused by the defacto occupation of Iran through the terrorist organization Hezbollah.

Better than Assad

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 01, 2016, 04:15:29 am

No.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2016, 05:01:59 am

Not really seeing the benefits of "militant Islamic dictatorship with rampant sectarian violence" over "moderately shit republic with rampant sectarian violence" tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 01, 2016, 05:05:08 am

Hey, when was the last time Hizbullah gassed civilians?

Also, the US IS fighting IS on the ground, in a limited capacity, within Iraq. Mostly artillery support though (which I guess can still be framed as "dropping bombs from above".)


Edit: The Austrian presidential election results is overturned after court find some postal ballots haven't been appropriately handled. New election to be help in september or october. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36681475)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 01, 2016, 10:54:04 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2016, 05:01:59 am

Not really seeing the benefits of "militant Islamic dictatorship with rampant sectarian violence" over "moderately shit republic with rampant sectarian violence" tbh

But that's exactly where Hezbollah is leading Lebanon towards. It's more militant than Assad, it's more religious by far and dictatorship wise, well, in their controlled parts it is a worse dictatorship than what Syria was before the Civil War.

Quote from: Sheb on July 01, 2016, 05:05:08 am

Hey, when was the last time Hizbullah gassed civilians?

Hezbollah's Nasrallah tortured a baby and burned it in front of its father eyes because he suspected the father was an Israeli spy. i don't think throwing gas at civilians would be much of a concern for them if they ever find the need to use it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2016, 03:14:40 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on June 30, 2016, 09:51:38 pm

IMO the best approach is basically what Russia's doing - support the local governments until the civil war is tidied up, then we can worry about encouraging them to become less barbaric and repressive.

Or maybe just give everything to Lebanon, they seem to be doing okay.

You're right.

Polite encouragement is the correct stance to deal with human rights issues.

After all, just look how well those sanctions worked on Hussein! /sarcasm

Things seem to turn out badly when we leave the less stable regions alone, and they seem to turn out badly when we try to occupy the power vacuum ourselves. I say hit the reset button every time something egregiously terrible starts forming, until the people we want to win, win.

I mean, like, how do you honestly expect it to go as it is, right now? I fully expect the former Syrian government to win, after many more years of fighting, use the threat of terrorism and freshly reestablished gov't to enact even harsher laws than before, possibly descending to ethnic cleansing if the world is extra unlucky. Then I expect a decade or two of peace, or a few months after cleansing starts (unless it finishes in which case there'll be an extra decade than there would have been otherwise because all the people who would have resented being treated so poorly have been killed instead), and then rebels in force again. Probably rebels in other places first, mind, and if that happens maybe they'll just spread, like ISIS seems to have. Maybe we'll like them, maybe we won't. But it's not just going to resolve itself neatly for the long-term if you leave it alone. Not from the trends I've seen, at any rate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 01, 2016, 03:45:44 pm

So it's possible that the mastermind behind Istanbul terrorist attack was a "refugee" in Europe, if you believe that weird website, that is.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/istanbul-isis-attack-mastermind-refugee-protected-eu/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2016, 07:33:18 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2016, 03:14:40 pm

Polite encouragement is the correct stance to deal with human rights issues.

Yeah that's not what I'm saying here

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2016, 03:14:40 pm

Things seem to turn out badly when we leave the less stable regions alone, and they seem to turn out badly when we try to occupy the power vacuum ourselves. I say hit the reset button every time something egregiously terrible starts forming, until the people we want to win, win.

To be fair occupation doesn't work too badly, it's when the occupation ends that things go to shit. If that's better than perpetual civil war, then fuck me, civil war must be a bed of goddamn roses.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2016, 03:14:40 pm

But it's not just going to resolve itself neatly for the long-term if you leave it alone. Not from the trends I've seen, at any rate.

Constantly bombing people is not going to resolve anything either

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2016, 11:59:45 pm

Yeah. Which is why I don't want 'just bomb them' as the solution, either.

And if invasion creates resentment and support, how would occupation not?

I know you don't mean literally just asking them, but my point is that sanctions or no, ethnic cleansing was happening, in Iraq, and nobody did shit about it until we thought he was consorting with terrorists. And I find that unacceptable. Literally unacceptable. I cannot believe we just let that happen, while he was violating sanctions. I would prefer occupation to mass murder, and I would prefer a stable government in place to occupation, and I'm sure some people would prefer mass murder w/gov't to perpetual civil war and refugees, with the justification being that if there's gonna be a lot of people dying either way, we may as well be civilized about it. Or something.

Staying out of it, or just idly standing by, throwing airstrikes every few days, doesn't seem like an acceptable option at this point. But I guess it's gotten us this far!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 02, 2016, 12:52:52 am

I think it comes from different goals than anything else. The air strikes are for targeting ISIS and their associates, rather than to specifically help anyone win the war in Syria.

I don't think anyone (nation-wise) outside of the Middle East could give two shits about who runs Syria, so long as it isn't ISIS or their ilk. Nobody seems to care about Assad using chemical weapons or anything; heck, Obama bluffed when he said that was a red line and would get American boots on the ground, and Assad called it.

Libya is a good example. Civil war against Gadaffi, the West bombed the shit out them, massive political vacuum, vague promises of "yeah we'll help you sort yourselves out after elections" then just left them to it. Last I checked (a while back) there were two groups claiming legitimacy for government, one of which was religious in nature.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 02, 2016, 01:01:25 am

Maybe we could try getting Western nations to annex them directly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 02, 2016, 01:13:57 am

I'm not sure if you're serious or not but one of the major propaganda drives those groups make is saying that western countries want to do exactly that, playing on resentment from when it happened before, or both. Proving them right would be counterproductive to say the least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 02, 2016, 01:17:18 am

I do believe OW was indulging in a shitpost.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 02, 2016, 01:19:39 am

Oh. I'll just see myself out then.

*Grumbles incoherently about text and tone-deafness*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 02, 2016, 07:20:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 02, 2016, 12:52:52 am

Libya is a good example. Civil war against Gadaffi, the West bombed the shit out them, massive political vacuum, vague promises of "yeah we'll help you sort yourselves out after elections" then just left them to it. Last I checked (a while back) there were two groups claiming legitimacy for government, one of which was religious in nature.

Things are actually starting to look better. And the West is indeed helping - SAS forces are aiding the fight against the Libyan IS branch, for example.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 02, 2016, 08:04:22 pm

You call that "starting to look better"?

IS got a foothold there in the first place because we left them to rot in a power vacuum after 'supporting' them to get rid of Kadhaffi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 03, 2016, 06:29:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 02, 2016, 08:04:22 pm

You call that "starting to look better"?

IS got a foothold there in the first place because we left them to rot in a power vacuum after 'supporting' them to get rid of Kadhaffi.

Well, by that measure, unless Time Rangers are deployed, it's not gonna get better ever, isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2016, 08:04:26 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 01, 2016, 05:05:08 am

Hey, when was the last time Hizbullah gassed civilians?

Also, the US IS fighting IS on the ground, in a limited capacity, within Iraq. Mostly artillery support though (which I guess can still be framed as "dropping bombs from above".)


Edit: The Austrian presidential election results is overturned after court find some postal ballots haven't been appropriately handled. New election to be help in september or october. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36681475)

Oh shit, the Austrians weren't lying

Quote from: Vilanat on June 30, 2016, 10:56:10 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on June 30, 2016, 10:16:59 am

It does not look like anyone except iran and syria want to really engage isis in any way except dropping few bombs from above.

If the West, led by the Untied States, engaged in a serious ground effort to combat them, ISIS would get a tremendous morale boost, would get flooded in locals and foreigners joining them and would ensure that their image as Islamic liberators fighting against infidels and crusaders would further entrench itself within muslim minds.

Besides, the West spends considerably more funds and resources on fighting ISIS than Iran or Russia.

As opposed to the current ISIS, flooded in locals and foreigners joining them, with their image as Islamic liberators fighting against infidels and crusaders? Only thing I dispute is their moral, which plummeted when Western and Eastern air strikes blew up their cash reserves (literally), their oil reserves (literally), their leadership (literally), so all in all, exploding with no money, food, water, hope of victory tends to decrease moral, and no one wants to join useless losers whose sole vocation are committing suicide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 08:09:38 pm

We really should be doing some kind of propaganda war. Give them, I dunno, toilet paper and stuff. Show them the superiority of western civilisation in a non-militaristic sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2016, 08:14:41 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 08:09:38 pm

We really should be doing some kind of propaganda war. Give them, I dunno, toilet paper and stuff. Show them the superiority of western civilisation in a non-militaristic sense.

... to be honest, I'm still aghast that a good chunk of western  is not familiar with what a bidet is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2016, 08:15:31 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2016, 08:14:41 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 08:09:38 pm

We really should be doing some kind of propaganda war. Give them, I dunno, toilet paper and stuff. Show them the superiority of western civilisation in a non-militaristic sense.

... to be honest, I'm still aghast that a good chunk of western  is not familiar with what a bidet is.

Remove bidet

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 03, 2016, 08:17:22 pm

pansy Europan filth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 03, 2016, 11:04:50 pm

Bidet, pfff, they should embrace the future and learn how to use the three seashells.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 03, 2016, 11:24:02 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 26, 2016, 05:02:48 am

What's up with the northeasternmost Asia claim? As far as I know, there's no Muslim presence there either modern or historical.

Saw this a while back; sorry for dredging it up, but you never got a serious answer.  The group linked were not just Islamists, but pan-Turkist Islamists, and they apparently decided to link the two with a logical OR instead of a logical AND.  The Yakuts/Sakha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic) are technically a Turkic people along with the Tuvans, Altay, and Yugur/Uyghur, though they're about as Islamic as pork.  That, however, can be easily "solved."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 04, 2016, 12:29:00 am

By making bacon out of thinly sliced, salted and smoked beef?
That's already a thing and it's terrible to blaspheme against bacon like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 04, 2016, 12:53:05 am

Nah, pan-Turkism, remember?  It's turkey bacon, all the way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2016, 02:18:14 am

Since we had a lot of discussion about fishes, the EU is reaching a deal to ban bottom trawler (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20160630IPR34208/MEPs-and-ministers-strike-informal-deal-to-ban-deep-sea-fishing-below-800-metres). Not perfect by far (it still allows it in some zone it was done in previously), but definitely a step forward. Yay for marine ecosystems!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 04, 2016, 02:54:38 am

Now if only UK would also comply with this...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 04, 2016, 03:05:40 am

But fishing industry

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 04, 2016, 03:17:48 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 04, 2016, 03:05:40 am

But fishing industry

...can go fuck itself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 04, 2016, 03:34:49 am

You're not thinking like a right-winger. Economy>all

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2016, 03:42:17 am

Actually, I'm not sure it matters if the UK respect if or not. Bottom trawlers are only a few ships in the EU, most of them Spanish, I don't think anyone operate under a British flag atm.

Of note is that Spanish lobbying manage to limit the ban to European waters, so they'll be free to keep fucking up the internaitonal waters.

Edit: Actually mostly French. At least in 2013, there were 11 bottom trawlers in the EU, 9 of them French, 6 of them belonging to one supermarket chain. Probably explain why it's a French MEP that led the fight in the Parliament to accept all the restrictions proposed by Spain. Still, big step forward.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 04, 2016, 06:11:10 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 03, 2016, 11:04:50 pm

Bidet, pfff, they should embrace the future and learn how to use the three seashells.

Spoiler: mfw yuros can't three seashells (click to show/hide)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/013/121/Oh_My_Sides!.jpg)

Quote from: Sergarr on July 04, 2016, 03:17:48 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 04, 2016, 03:05:40 am

But fishing industry

...can go fuck itself

No jokes, they really need to, otherwise they're just climbing to greater heights to further impale themselves in the future. Unlike with conservation fucking them over, overfishing will permanently fuck them over. Somalian pirates were created by overfishing, never 5get

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 04, 2016, 05:19:04 pm

Quote from: Culise on July 04, 2016, 12:53:05 am

Nah, pan-Turkism, remember?  It's turkey bacon, all the way.

From what I remember of ther website, the proposal wasn't about spreading Islam everywhere (they actually said no one would have to worry about extremists and instability, basically). The main goal for them seemed to be controlling huge amounts of oil and minerals, so that their economy could flourish via that trade and exporting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 05, 2016, 06:27:48 am

Orban is planning a referendum on the second of October on the Commission refugees plan, with the absolutely unloaded question "Do you think the European Union should impose a mandatory relocation of non-Hungarian citizens to Hungary without the approval of the Hungarian parliament?" (http://www.lecho.be/dossier/migrants/La_Hongrie_organise_un_referendum_sur_les_refugies.9785395-8179.art?ckc=1&ts=1467717853)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2016, 11:13:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 05, 2016, 06:27:48 am

Orban is planning a referendum on the second of October on the Commission refugees plan, with the absolutely unloaded question "Do you think the European Union should impose a mandatory relocation of non-Hungarian citizens to Hungary without the approval of the Hungarian parliament?" (http://www.lecho.be/dossier/migrants/La_Hongrie_organise_un_referendum_sur_les_refugies.9785395-8179.art?ckc=1&ts=1467717853)

How else would you phrase it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2016, 08:56:34 am

Quote

READ MORE: Migrants involved in 70,000 potential & actual crimes in 1st quarter of 2016 – German police

In most of the crimes, men were unable to “handle the alcohol,” simply felt “horny,” having “ignorance of the consequences for the girls" or “misplaced feelings,”“expressing anger in this way” or acting due to “peer pressure.”

Recent migrants are blamed for some of the crimes: migrant sex gangs were attacking girls from 12 to 17 years old over the past two summers at the Stockholm music festival. In a leaked police memo, security forces noted that “unaccompanied youth” from the Middle East were behind the crimes, Breitbart reported.

More attacks were reported at Swedish music festivals Arvika in 2006 and 2010, Emmaboda in 2014 and Bråvalla in 2015, with police accused of covering up the assaults and not disclosing details on the 36 reports of sexual assault and two rape allegations filed after the festivals in 2014 and 2015, the Local reported.

Last month, a Swedish police report said that the country has the worst rates of sexual violence against women in entire Europe, according to a survey carried out by the EU’s rights agency.

“Sweden tops the new EU Statistics on physical and sexual violence against women, sexual harassment and stalking. The conclusion is that the results are a consequence of Nordic alcohol culture, but also of non-traditional gender roles,” the report said.

t. Putin news (https://www.rt.com/news/349142-sweden-wristband-sexual-assault/),  ‘Don’t touch me’: Swedish police offer anti-sexual assault wristband

Whilst concluding the sexual assaults were a result of Nordic alcohol culture and non-traditional gender roles, whilst handing out do not grope wristbands written in Swedish:

Quote

“We are in the process of reviewing them,” he said in a speech at a political seminar. “It’s also important that we continue to ensure that police, prosecutors and other officials are better equipped to investigate such crimes and actually catch the perpetrators.”

Nyström declined to give details of the suspects or comment on reports that the offences in Karlstad were committed by migrants or foreigners, pending the outcome of the investigation.

“We want to catch the suspects because we need to talk to them,” he said. “The number of such cases has increased slightly since last year, but I’m really not sure if this is a common problem at festivals.”

In January, Swedish police faced allegations of a cover-up for failing to inform the public of widespread sexual assaults against teenage girls at a music festival a year ago, which came to light when the Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter reported them following a string of sexual assaults and robberies on New Year’s Eve in Cologne, Germany.

t. progresiv news (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/05/swedish-police-identify-seven-men-suspected-of-assault-at-festival)
Why (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival)

In related news Mumford and Sons boycott Swedish festival amid sex attack reports

Quote

The band said they were "gutted" to hear of reports of five rapes and more than a dozen suspected sexual assaults at the Bravalla Festival in Norrkoping, south-west of Stockholm, that took place from June 29 to July 2.

In a post on their official Facebook page which was signed by all band members, they vowed not to play it again until security had improved.

t. torygraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/06/mumford-and-sons-boycott-swedish-festival-amid-sex-attack-report/)

Quote

More than 40 cases of rape and sexual assault were reported after two festivals in Sweden at the weekend.
Five incidents of rape and 12 sexual assaults were reported at Bravalla Festival and 35 sexual assaults reported at Putte I Parken.
The youngest reported victim at Putte I Parken is 12 years old.
A friend of one victim claims reports were not taken seriously at Putte I Parken when security staff were alerted.
"A guy ran his hand between the legs of one of my friends," said the unnamed youth to Sweden's AftonBladet newspaper.
"When she went to a bouncer, she was asked if she was drunk.
 don't know what the bouncers are doing there if they can't help when people do this."
Another victim claims she was held down by a young male while he "started humping against my body".
Swedish police are now looking for a number of males in connection with the attacks.
"We have five counts of suspicious rape," police at Bravalla festival told Newsbeat.
"In three [cases] we have interrogated three suspects. We've decided to release them. There may be an investigation into sexual offences that are not rape," they said.
Mumford & Sons, Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, Hardwell, Bastille, Craig David and Zara Larsson were among the performers at Bravalla, with Zara tweeting her disgust at the attacks.
"For those shamelessly raping a girl in the audience, you deserve to burn in hell," she said, translated from Swedish.

t. beeblebub news (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36713031/more-than-40-sex-assaults-reported-at-two-swedish-festivals)

Stockholm police were warned not to give descriptions of the perpetrators lest they were accused of being racist (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/)

Ahahaha, now you know my despair

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 08, 2016, 07:55:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2016, 11:13:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 05, 2016, 06:27:48 am

Orban is planning a referendum on the second of October on the Commission refugees plan, with the absolutely unloaded question "Do you think the European Union should impose a mandatory relocation of non-Hungarian citizens to Hungary without the approval of the Hungarian parliament?" (http://www.lecho.be/dossier/migrants/La_Hongrie_organise_un_referendum_sur_les_refugies.9785395-8179.art?ckc=1&ts=1467717853)

How else would you phrase it?

"Would you like some immigrants quartered in your home, or leave the EU? "
#Hungarexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 08, 2016, 08:02:26 am

Hunary isn't going to leave, they get mad amount of EU cash. Like, the highest ratio of incoming cash to GDP in the whole EU, on the order of 5% IIRC.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 08, 2016, 08:09:51 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 08, 2016, 08:02:26 am

Hunary isn't going to leave, they get mad amount of EU cash. Like, the highest ratio of incoming cash to GDP in the whole EU, on the order of 5% IIRC.

You could say they're hungry for funding.   
..... I'll see myself out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 13, 2016, 04:51:10 am

The German government is considering a proposal by the German minister of Defense, to expand the German army with a German version of the French Foreign Legion. If the proposal is approved, non-German EU citizens will be able to join the German army.

It is not certain it will pass though. the SPD, which is in the government together with the CDU, has already expressed worries about the costs, in the light of years of budget cuts on defense.

The Bundeswehrverband, the largest interest group for military personell, also has objections.
In a statement, they say that "German citizenship is fundamental, since joining the army requires a special, reciprocal loyalty between soldier and state"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 05:03:12 am

Well, that's kind of missing the point of the Foreign Legion, isn't it? The whole idea is that neither party has much loyalty to the other, FFL is essentially a bunch of expressly expendable foreigners for the French government to deploy as a military force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 08:13:47 am

Quote from: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 05:03:12 am

Well, that's kind of missing the point of the Foreign Legion, isn't it? The whole idea is that neither party has much loyalty to the other, FFL is essentially a bunch of expressly expendable foreigners for the French government to deploy as a military force.

Also the most likely enemy the German gov has to fight are nazi Germans, who would gravitate towards army posts
Having an army that sympathizes with nazis could very quickly turn into a professional nazi army, thus having a diverse one actually has less conflicts of loyalty, presuming they vet for cheeki jihadis

Basing it on the FFL where service = citizenship would be a great way to socially integrate Germany and newGermans in addition to providing manpower for such a FFL, as Germany has now an overabundance of young foreign men with nothing much to do
This would also allow Germany to take a more active and not retarded foreign policy on the world stage

10/10 would recommend again

P.s. if you want expendable foreigners just do a Saudi Arabia and hire loads of mercenaries

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 13, 2016, 09:48:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 08:13:47 am

Quote from: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 05:03:12 am

Well, that's kind of missing the point of the Foreign Legion, isn't it? The whole idea is that neither party has much loyalty to the other, FFL is essentially a bunch of expressly expendable foreigners for the French government to deploy as a military force.

Also the most likely enemy the German gov has to fight are nazi Germans, who would gravitate towards army posts
Having an army that sympathizes with nazis could very quickly turn into a professional nazi army, thus having a diverse one actually has less conflicts of loyalty, presuming they vet for cheeki jihadis

Basing it on the FFL where service = citizenship would be a great way to socially integrate Germany and newGermans in addition to providing manpower for such a FFL, as Germany has now an overabundance of young foreign men with nothing much to do
This would also allow Germany to take a more active and not retarded foreign policy on the world stage

10/10 would recommend again

P.s. if you want expendable foreigners just do a Saudi Arabia and hire loads of mercenaries

I think you're onto something there, Germany starts this foreign legion, recruits it's 20 million Syrian refugees who join for citizenship, then they can send the 'army' over to the Middle East to recover their homeland.
Doesn't particularly matter if they win, if not we'll you don't need refugee camps anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 13, 2016, 10:04:21 am

Quote from: MarcAFK on July 13, 2016, 09:48:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 08:13:47 am

Quote from: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 05:03:12 am

Well, that's kind of missing the point of the Foreign Legion, isn't it? The whole idea is that neither party has much loyalty to the other, FFL is essentially a bunch of expressly expendable foreigners for the French government to deploy as a military force.

Also the most likely enemy the German gov has to fight are nazi Germans, who would gravitate towards army posts
Having an army that sympathizes with nazis could very quickly turn into a professional nazi army, thus having a diverse one actually has less conflicts of loyalty, presuming they vet for cheeki jihadis

Basing it on the FFL where service = citizenship would be a great way to socially integrate Germany and newGermans in addition to providing manpower for such a FFL, as Germany has now an overabundance of young foreign men with nothing much to do
This would also allow Germany to take a more active and not retarded foreign policy on the world stage

10/10 would recommend again

P.s. if you want expendable foreigners just do a Saudi Arabia and hire loads of mercenaries

I think you're onto something there, Germany starts this foreign legion, recruits it's 20 million Syrian refugees who join for citizenship, then they can send the 'army' over to the Middle East to recover their homeland.
Doesn't particularly matter if they win, if not we'll you don't need refugee camps anymore.

A middle eastern bay of pigs invasion?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 10:40:21 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 13, 2016, 10:04:21 am

Quote from: MarcAFK on July 13, 2016, 09:48:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 08:13:47 am

Quote from: scrdest on July 13, 2016, 05:03:12 am

Well, that's kind of missing the point of the Foreign Legion, isn't it? The whole idea is that neither party has much loyalty to the other, FFL is essentially a bunch of expressly expendable foreigners for the French government to deploy as a military force.

Also the most likely enemy the German gov has to fight are nazi Germans, who would gravitate towards army posts
Having an army that sympathizes with nazis could very quickly turn into a professional nazi army, thus having a diverse one actually has less conflicts of loyalty, presuming they vet for cheeki jihadis

Basing it on the FFL where service = citizenship would be a great way to socially integrate Germany and newGermans in addition to providing manpower for such a FFL, as Germany has now an overabundance of young foreign men with nothing much to do
This would also allow Germany to take a more active and not retarded foreign policy on the world stage

10/10 would recommend again

P.s. if you want expendable foreigners just do a Saudi Arabia and hire loads of mercenaries

I think you're onto something there, Germany starts this foreign legion, recruits it's 20 million Syrian refugees who join for citizenship, then they can send the 'army' over to the Middle East to recover their homeland.
Doesn't particularly matter if they win, if not we'll you don't need refugee camps anymore.

A middle eastern bay of pigs invasion?

absolutely haram

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2016, 03:47:24 pm

Quite a bit of ruckus in France after a newspaper revealed Hollande's hairdresser is paid over 9.500 euros a month.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 13, 2016, 04:11:59 pm

This is joke's topic, right? I loled reading this tweet

https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Not/status/753314477433614336

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 13, 2016, 04:27:01 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2016, 03:47:24 pm

Quite a bit of ruckus in France after a newspaper revealed Hollande's hairdresser is paid over 9.500 euros a month.

Don't get the whole fuzz. THe one time a ruler does decide to let a proletarian share some of his wealth, it's still no good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 04:33:56 pm

His wealth? Do you not think he'll be claiming that on expenses?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 05:35:02 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 04:33:56 pm

His wealth? Do you not think he'll be claiming that on expenses?

His hair is important to the morale of euronation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 05:50:33 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2016, 03:47:24 pm

Quite a bit of ruckus in France after a newspaper revealed Hollande's hairdresser is paid over 9.500 euros a month.

Doesn't sound too ridiculous, really.

I wonder what 9.5k euro is in NZD.

...

He gets paid fifteen grand for hairdressing? Ye gods. That's pretty ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 07:51:07 pm

Muslim boy refuses to shake hands with women, Germany is outraged (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/german-teachers-boycott-leavers-ceremony-after-muslim-pupil-refu/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 08:04:19 pm

That article is clearly anti-Semitic and anti-Islam and god those teachers are stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:16:27 pm

Quote

Andrea Lüdtke, the head teacher, refused. “He is by no means a radical or extremist,” she told Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.

He is, however, extremely rude.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 08:26:18 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:16:27 pm

Quote

Andrea Lüdtke, the head teacher, refused. “He is by no means a radical or extremist,” she told Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.

He is, however, extremely rude.

What if the teachers reaction? That wasn't very polite either. Setting superb examples for their charges.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2016, 08:35:04 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:16:27 pm

Quote

Andrea Lüdtke, the head teacher, refused. “He is by no means a radical or extremist,” she told Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.

He is, however, extremely rude.

The teachers didn't teach him manners
Checkmate atheists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:43:04 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 08:26:18 pm

What if the teachers reaction? That wasn't very polite either. Setting superb examples for their charges.

Welcome to the future

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 14, 2016, 12:36:41 am

100 years ago it was the height of rudeness for a boy to touch a girls hand. Not untill marriage surely.
#MakeBritainVictorianAgain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 14, 2016, 01:55:54 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 08:26:18 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:16:27 pm

Quote

Andrea Lüdtke, the head teacher, refused. “He is by no means a radical or extremist,” she told Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.

He is, however, extremely rude.

What if the teachers reaction? That wasn't very polite either. Setting superb examples for their charges.

Ah yes, how rude of her to protest when insulted.

We had a similar thing happen in Sweden recently where the Greens nominated some-guy-whose-make-i-dont-remember to some-position-i-dont-remember and it turned out the guy had been refusing to shake hands with women for years without anyone stepping up and telling him that's not acceptable behaviour, particularly not in a supposedly feminist party. It caused quite a bit of stir and he was made to step down or out or whatever.

I'd linkalink but I'm on my phone and have to get going for work, so no time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 03:19:57 am

Personally I think that non-discrimination is more important than religious freedom, so I kinda agree with the teacher's boycot (even though I think they should have thought up something that did not affect the rest of the classmates).
Not shaking hands, just because of sexe, is sexist discrimination using religious freedom as a pathetic excuse.

It's just as bad as a KKK member refusing to shake hands with a black person.


So, please do shake hands with women #MakeAllahGreatAgain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 14, 2016, 03:32:25 am

What if he refused to shake hands with anyone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 03:38:00 am

I'd be okay with that.

If some religious guy would come and say "I am not allowed to shake hands with a woman because of my beliefs, but I also don't want to discriminate, so I decided to not shake hands with anyone", I'd be all like "Yo, welcome to our modern world brother. Can I hug you?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 14, 2016, 08:45:45 am

Quote from: scriver on July 14, 2016, 01:55:54 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2016, 08:26:18 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 13, 2016, 08:16:27 pm

Quote

Andrea Lüdtke, the head teacher, refused. “He is by no means a radical or extremist,” she told Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.

He is, however, extremely rude.

What if the teachers reaction? That wasn't very polite either. Setting superb examples for their charges.

Ah yes, how rude of her to protest when insulted.

We had a similar thing happen in Sweden recently where the Greens nominated some-guy-whose-make-i-dont-remember to some-position-i-dont-remember and it turned out the guy had been refusing to shake hands with women for years without anyone stepping up and telling him that's not acceptable behaviour, particularly not in a supposedly feminist party. It caused quite a bit of stir and he was made to step down or out or whatever.

I'd linkalink but I'm on my phone and have to get going for work, so no time.

It's discrimination one way or the other. Aye, refusing to shake the hand of a woman is stupid, but then having a shitfit because someone won't shake the hand of a woman for religious reasons is also stupid.

The fact the teachers just went from "oh that's not nice" to "FUCKING MUSLIM BASTARD WON'T HAVE US SUPPORT HIM AT THE CEREMONY, BUT THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT MORE THAN JUST HIM SO OOPS" instead of, you know, maybe talking to him and/or his parents about it... most stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 09:29:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 03:38:00 am

I'd be okay with that.

If some religious guy would come and say "I am not allowed to shake hands with a woman because of my beliefs, but I also don't want to discriminate, so I decided to not shake hands with anyone", I'd be all like "Yo, welcome to our modern world brother. Can I hug you?"

Ey what now

So you'd be ok with him doing the same thing for no reason, but because he does it for his beliefs it becomes wrong

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 14, 2016, 09:43:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 14, 2016, 03:32:25 am

What if he refused to shake hands with anyone?

For religious reasons? He would still be extremely disrespectful to everyone he meets, but at least he would be fair. But this what if question is really rather irrelevant because there is a huge issue of context here in which Muslim dogma treats women like lesser beings, and this is an expression of that. A situation in which he would "not shake hands with anyone" wouldn't be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 09:54:48 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 09:29:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 03:38:00 am

I'd be okay with that.

If some religious guy would come and say "I am not allowed to shake hands with a woman because of my beliefs, but I also don't want to discriminate, so I decided to not shake hands with anyone", I'd be all like "Yo, welcome to our modern world brother. Can I hug you?"

Ey what now

So you'd be ok with him doing the same thing for no reason, but because he does it for his beliefs it becomes wrong

Huh? No? What made you think that?
I'd be okay with him doing it for his belief, as long as he does not discriminate. Don't know how you can read what you read into that sentence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 10:36:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 09:54:48 am

Huh? No? What made you think that?
I'd be okay with him doing it for his belief, as long as he does not discriminate. Don't know how you can read what you read into that sentence.

Were you not replying to Sheb?

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 03:38:00 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 14, 2016, 03:32:25 am

What if he refused to shake hands with anyone?

I'd be okay with that.

If some religious guy would come and say "I am not allowed to shake hands with a woman because of my beliefs, but I also don't want to discriminate, so I decided to not shake hands with anyone", I'd be all like "Yo, welcome to our modern world brother. Can I hug you?"

Cos if not, who were you replying to?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 14, 2016, 10:46:07 am

I'n my culture we murder murderers, but don't murder non-murderers, but that's unfair and discriminatory so how about we just be fair and murder everyone?
#hugboxmode

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 14, 2016, 10:54:21 am

Apparently the FM called BoJo a liar on radio this morning. This is starting well. :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 14, 2016, 11:00:10 am

Which FM? Foreign Minister or First Minister?

Fakedit: Neither, upon checking. Whoops :))

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 11:05:59 am

I was replying to Sheb but I do not understand how you translate what I wrote to "I'm okay with it for no reason, but it's wrong because he does it for religious reason". You must have misread what I wrote.

Let me try and rephrase.
If the guy says "I am not allowed to shake hands with women because of my religion, but I don't want to discriminate, so I've decided to shake no hands at all",
I'll be like "Great! Cool! You get your religious freedom to not touch a woman, and woman get their freedom to not be discriminated. Good solution, since there's no human right saying anyone has a right to get their hand shaken. Welcome to the club of people who put some effort into thinking about living together with different cultures. I'd high-five, but well, yer, erm."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 14, 2016, 11:21:03 am

hector: Foreign Minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 12:19:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 11:05:59 am

I was replying to Sheb but I do not understand how you translate what I wrote to "I'm okay with it for no reason, but it's wrong because he does it for religious reason". You must have misread what I wrote.
Let me try and rephrase.
If the guy says "I am not allowed to shake hands with women because of my religion, but I don't want to discriminate, so I've decided to shake no hands at all",
I'll be like "Great! Cool! You get your religious freedom to not touch a woman, and woman get their freedom to not be discriminated. Good solution, since there's no human right saying anyone has a right to get their hand shaken. Welcome to the club of people who put some effort into thinking about living together with different cultures. I'd high-five, but well, yer, erm."

Ah, so you'd be ok with him shaking no one's hands regardless of belief as opposed to only women

By this same metric, would the teachers boycotting all their students instead of singling out the Muslim student be morally superior for spiting all of their students because one didn't want to shake their hands?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 02:06:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 12:19:12 pm

Ah, so you'd be ok with him shaking no one's hands regardless of belief as opposed to only women

By this same metric, would the teachers boycotting all their students instead of singling out the Muslim student be morally superior for spiting all of their students because one didn't want to shake their hands?

I don't see how those cases would share a common metric. They are completely different things. No comparison possible.

But if you want my opinion on that, like I wrote before, I think the teachers were in their right to protest (since the women were being discriminated), but the form of protest they chose (a boycot) also affected the rest of the class, which I don't approve of.

So in answer to your question, no I don't think that would be morally superior. Punishing the collective for the deeds of an individual is unjust. It's something the nazis did a lot. Publicly killing random people because the resistance stole some food.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 14, 2016, 02:10:51 pm

That was quite the Godwin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on July 14, 2016, 02:20:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 02:06:45 pm

So in answer to your question, no I don't think that would be morally superior. Punishing the collective for the deeds of an individual is unjust. It's something the nazis did a lot. Publicly killing random people because the resistance stole some food.

I'm here to say yes, they did this, but their favorite thing to do was a little more specific:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Notification_on_21_October_1941.jpg)

Relevant part quoted:

Quote

For that reason 100 people were shot for each killed German soldier, and for each wounded 50, mainly communists, bandits and their siders, 2300 altogether. Every similar case, even if it were only sabotage, will be dealt with the same severity.
Chief of local command

Of course where they could not find enough Jews or communists, male civilians were used. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 14, 2016, 03:46:12 pm

Taking hostages like that is one of those more brutal acts of warfare that I find hard to condemn wholesale. Sure, it's innocents being killed, but in defense against unlawful ways of conducting warfare, and (if you go about it with more decency than the Nazis) with proper warning and proportion.

If applied fairly (well, "fairly") and consistently by all sides, it could prove a powerful deterrent against breaking the laws of warfare in the way that partisans often do. The only proper argument against it hinges on the - quite frankly artificial - distinction between soldier's lives and civilians' lives. If killing a civilian means two soldiers or however many may stay alive, why not make the trade? Why is killing a soldier for military gain morally acceptable, but killing civilians is not? This becomes even more absurd when you consider that accepting collateral damage is perfectly legal and legitimate in warfare, as long as it stays within reasonable bounds.

For the record: The criteria I am imagining certainly are not met by the massacres conducted by the Nazis, and I do not mean to exculpate them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 04:15:18 pm

Depends on whether you're conducting total war or not innit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 04:51:17 pm

Fuck shit. A truck ran into a crowd in Nice just now. The mayor of Nice Twittered there's dozens of dead, and there's reports of a firefight between the police and the truck's drivers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 04:56:36 pm

The truck, with police behind a tree

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/trucknice_zps9et3uzhk.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/trucknice_zps9et3uzhk.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 04:59:06 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 14, 2016, 04:52:57 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 04:51:17 pm

Fuck shit. A truck ran into a crowd in Nice just now. The mayor of Nice Twittered there's dozens of dead, and there's reports of a firefight between the police and the truck's drivers.

What's the betting it's some ISIS fucksticks?

Who knows (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:00:51 pm

That article is paywalled.
French authorities told BFMTV that there's at least 100 dead. Public celebrating 14th july has been struck by mass panic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:05:33 pm

The timing couldn't be worse for Hollande. Just today, he gave an interview with BFMTV in which he promised that the National State of Emergency which has been in effect since 13th of november last year will absolutely and certainly be lifted on the 26th of july.

I'm quite sure he'll give a new interview tomorrow saying he'll extend it after all :(

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-vrachtwagen-rijdt-in-nice-in-op-menigte-tientallen-doden-misschien-100-gewonden~a4340121/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 05:09:07 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-crash-idUSKCN0ZU2K7
It's being treated as a terror attack

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:11:59 pm

Goddamnit.

Don't watch if you have a weak stomach.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/nicebah_zpskcsm2tio.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/nicebah_zpskcsm2tio.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 14, 2016, 05:12:57 pm

Why do they think it's a terror attack? did the driver had a rifle or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 05:14:23 pm

Yeah, after ploughing through the crowd, driver got out and started shooting people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:15:24 pm

Mainly because there have been reports of gunfire between police and the driver. This could have also been the fireworks that were being fired everywhere for the festivities. Authorities have at least reported the truck driver is dead now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:19:16 pm

A Dutch eyewitness reports
"A white unmarked truck was driving at full speed over the pedestrian walkway. We heard dull thuds of people being hit. Over a distance of one and a half kilometer we saw at least 30 dead bodies lying along the road."

Another witness reports:
"When the fireworks had ended we suddenly heard gunfire and people started running and shouting. We saw people lying on the floor. And glass everywhere. People dropped their drinks and ran. It is complete panic here. Everyone is trembling and crying."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 14, 2016, 05:23:36 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 14, 2016, 05:12:57 pm

Why do they think it's a terror attack? did the driver had a rifle or something?

It's a deliberate mass murder of civilians, during a festival. How else would you classify this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 14, 2016, 05:47:51 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on July 14, 2016, 05:23:36 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 14, 2016, 05:12:57 pm

Why do they think it's a terror attack? did the driver had a rifle or something?

It's a deliberate mass murder of civilians, during a festival. How else would you classify this?

Well, a truck plowing into a crowd could easily be a tragic accident; there's a world of difference between a brake failure and a terrorist incident.  The additional information of reported gunfire exchanges between the driver and police does tend to incline things towards the latter, however.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 05:50:59 pm

Break failures tend not to leave bullet holes in the windshield.

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/bullettruck_zps7wamytbx.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/bullettruck_zps7wamytbx.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 14, 2016, 05:55:32 pm

I didn't say it wasn't a terrorist incident.  I simply stated that, knowing only that a truck hit the crowd and killed a bunch of people, it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask at that point in time.  Not all mass-death incidents are terrorism; otherwise, we'd be talking about the terrorists behind the Tenerife airport disaster, nor are all people here blessed with precog, to have seen that picture you just posted almost two hours before you posted it.  There was no need to jump on Vilanat's throat over it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 05:59:45 pm

Quote from: Culise on July 14, 2016, 05:55:32 pm

There was no need to jump on Vilanat's throat over it.

No throats were jumped on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 06:08:24 pm

Crap. My aunt and uncle are on holidays in southern France. They could have been in Nice today. Their phone is off. I'll just think positive and assume that is because they're already asleep at half past midnight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 14, 2016, 06:08:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 05:59:45 pm

Quote from: Culise on July 14, 2016, 05:55:32 pm

There was no need to jump on Vilanat's throat over it.

No throats were jumped on

EDIT: Actually, I shall simply straight-out apologize, no excuses or hedging, and recuse myself from all future discussion.  It is almost certain that I misread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 14, 2016, 06:14:41 pm

Ey isn't removing yourself from all future discussion a bit of an overreaction
To err is human, and you are not kitchenbot

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 14, 2016, 06:23:56 pm

+Malachite Worktop+

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 14, 2016, 06:27:14 pm

French authorities anounce that weapons and grenades have been found in the truck. I guess they shot him dead before he could use those.
The investigation has been officially passed from the police to the anti-terror brigade now.

At least 60 people are dead, about 100 wounded.
Apparently local visitors and tourists are being marched off the site by the military, with their hands over their heads.
(that or the people in the picture are just drunk student trolls unaware of the seriousness of the situation, but the subscript under the pic in my newspaper says "military are clearing the boulevard")

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/marchingoff_zpsatswk8j4.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/marchingoff_zpsatswk8j4.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 14, 2016, 06:28:48 pm

That's just...Bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 14, 2016, 07:32:12 pm

Hollande said he doesn't want to extend the state of emergency after this attack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2016, 08:23:26 pm

Quote from: Culise on July 14, 2016, 05:55:32 pm

I didn't say it wasn't a terrorist incident.  I simply stated that, knowing only that a truck hit the crowd and killed a bunch of people, it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask at that point in time.  Not all mass-death incidents are terrorism; otherwise, we'd be talking about the terrorists behind the Tenerife airport disaster, nor are all people here blessed with precog, to have seen that picture you just posted almost two hours before you posted it.  There was no need to jump on Vilanat's throat over it.

Yes, it's not absolutely confirmed that it was a terrorist attack, or a Muslim terrorist attack, but we both know it was.

And Hollande referred to Islamic Terrorism in his address about the attack.  Looks like the thing we all knew was the case already turned out to be the case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 14, 2016, 10:11:51 pm

Hoo boy, I'm going to be living in Germany. I hope the rest of Europe isn't as bad at containing the bomb cult.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 12:32:52 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 14, 2016, 07:32:12 pm

Hollande said he doesn't want to extend the state of emergency after this attack.

Hollande has just announced that the state of emergency will be extended with another 3 months.

Death toll has risen to 84. Nice hospital calls upon to the people to come and donate blood.

Perpetrator has been identified as a 31 year old Tunesian French man who was known to the police for theft and assault charges. He wasn't on the radar for anti-terrorism agencies though, there had been no signs of that.

I wonder how many more of these attacks the French can take before they decide it's time to show IS that they are a nuclear superpower.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 01:05:34 am

Probably a shitton, considering that nobody responded that way in practice to 9/11, and it would solve literally nothing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 01:16:03 am

Yeah, sending in armies to occupy the Levant would be better. Though a nuclear attack would send much more powerful message than conventional airstrikes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 15, 2016, 01:20:49 am

Nuclear attack against what, though? If they explode an empty piece of desert they won't achieve much except irradiating stuff and causing pollution, if they explode an inhabited place then... well, they would explode an inhabited place with nuclear weapons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 01:27:21 am

Raqqa?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 15, 2016, 01:35:19 am

Hey man, raqqa's a perfectly fine music genre.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 01:43:17 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 01:05:34 am

Probably a shitton, considering that nobody responded that way in practice to 9/11, and it would solve literally nothing.

Then again 9/11 didn't happen 3-4 times a year.
I'm sure the current French government will never use the nuclear option.
Le Pen, on the other hand...
Don't want to think what could happen if a populist racist became president of one of the world's largest nuclear powers.

EDIT: 9/11 got the world closests to nukes as anything. I mean, nukes weren't used, but I remember watching CNN and other news channels reporting on the Gulf War, and the use of "Mother of all Bombs", whcih aren't nukes, but are designed to make people think they are. Big big boom and mushroom cloud. Using tactical nukes to penetrate bunkers has even been considered by the US coalition during the Gulf War.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 01:49:11 am

The point is that nuke wouldn't help at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 02:07:07 am

Hollande announced that France will intensify it's attacks on IS in Syria and Iraq

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 02:15:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 01:43:17 am

I remember watching CNN and other news channels reporting on the Gulf War, and the use of "Mother of all Bombs", whcih aren't nukes, but are designed to make people think they are. Big big boom and mushroom cloud. Using tactical nukes to penetrate bunkers has even been considered by the US coalition during the Gulf War.

Oh, thermobarics? Those are minuscule compared to nuclear weapons. Scary, but not city-sized pressure wave scary.

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 01:49:11 am

The point is that nuke wouldn't help at all.

Not tactically, but it would ruin morale. Assuming you're okay with massive civilian casualties. In any case, someone needs to do something major or the war's just gonna drag on indefinitely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 15, 2016, 02:45:20 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 02:15:46 am

Not tactically, but it would ruin morale. Assuming you're okay with massive civilian casualties. In any case, someone needs to do something major or the war's just gonna drag on indefinitely.

The problem is it would proably ruin the users morale than anyone's else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:07:48 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 02:15:46 am

Oh, thermobarics? Those are minuscule compared to nuclear weapons. Scary, but not city-sized pressure wave scary.

I thought they were dwarfed by real nukes too, but apparently the yield of the largest thermobaric weapon, the Russian FOAB, is larger than the yield of a yield-adjustable modern nuke at lowest yield setting, with a blast radius of 300 meters.

So while definitly not as powerful as nukes in general, 'miniscule', or 'dwarfed' might be a bit underrating them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:26:14 am

Ruin morale for whom? the European based Terrorists? i think the contrary, it would only radicalize more Muslims and inspire more Terrorism.

Also, these are Death cults we're dealing with here, dying in combat is one of their motivations.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 02:07:07 am

Hollande announced that France will intensify it's attacks on IS in Syria and Iraq

That's a mistake. the enemy is within, not somewhere in Raqqa or Mosul. the reason for the enemy being an enemy also isn't in Raqqa or Mosul, it's in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and such.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 03:32:18 am

Well...... If we talk about impossible events...  There are two very promising targets for nukes - Mecca and Medina.

Answering terrorism with terrorism of much greater scale is an interesting hypothetical solution "Muslims if this will continue, your holy places may vaporize"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:34:50 am

That would only serve to send 2 billion muslims who are now moderate and peaceful into a kafir killing frenzy that makes IS look like schoolgirls. Bad idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 04:07:34 am

To be fair, if we start nuking cities to the ground, killing hundred of thousands because they happen to share a religion with someone who killed dozens here, I too will start planning terror attacks (targeting our government rather than our general civilian populace, but still).

UR: You got beat by some ISIS-affiliate setting off a bomb in Medina a few weeks ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 15, 2016, 04:22:25 am

Hell, ISIS would probably raze Mecca to the ground just so that the US can't use it as a hostage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 15, 2016, 04:30:34 am

Isin't the destruction of Mecca/Medina considered one of events that are likely to cause WW3? That shit would be serious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 04:34:05 am

Depend how they're destroyed. You'd have a ton of pissed muslims, that's for sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 04:34:21 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:26:14 am

That's a mistake. the enemy is within, not somewhere in Raqqa or Mosul. the reason for the enemy being an enemy also isn't in Raqqa or Mosul, it's in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and such.

There's enemies all over the place, but the ones under arms are the most immediate threat. Frankly I'm in favour of invading pretty much every country in the Middle-east, but one thing at a time. Imperialism can wait.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:07:48 am

So while definitly not as powerful as nukes in general, 'miniscule', or 'dwarfed' might be a bit underrating them.

Oh sure the bombs themselves are excellent, just lacks the level of mind-boggling horror

Quote from: Kot on July 15, 2016, 04:30:34 am

Isin't the destruction of Mecca/Medina considered one of events that are likely to cause WW3? That shit would be serious.

World war? I doubt it. The only countries likely to object are the Muslim ones (discounting hippies, UN and so on who'd complain about civilian deaths) who are all dependent on the West for soldiers and weapons. Would be loads of unrest and terror, be we have that anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 04:45:45 am

To be fair, there is a certain logic in striking IS's territory in Syria. For starter, it's one of the few that is easy to strike. Then, the sooner Syria is quite-ish, the fast it stop acting as a training ground for European jihadis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 15, 2016, 04:53:01 am

You say that, as if Muslims aren't a threat. I mean, the IS is only a small fraction of muslims, and the western world is already sucking so much at getting rid of them. It's amazing how many [redacted] can fit in the [expunged] of western leaders when it comes to homeland security, really. It's like reverse tentacle [no], where instead of [golly!] tentacles, you have infinite [boy!] on the body of, say, Obama, as the IS insert their [whew] in him and filling him with their [hooey] while he moans for them to inject him with more [wow], his shivering hands grabbing for their gigantic [yep] desperately, trying to please them as they [welp] and laughed in syrian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 15, 2016, 04:57:31 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 04:34:21 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:26:14 am

That's a mistake. the enemy is within, not somewhere in Raqqa or Mosul. the reason for the enemy being an enemy also isn't in Raqqa or Mosul, it's in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and such.

There's enemies all over the place, but the ones under arms are the most immediate threat. Frankly I'm in favour of invading pretty much every country in the Middle-east, but one thing at a time. Imperialism can wait.

That type of logic is what got us here with terrorist attacks. If countries did not start all this shit up in middle east with invading, destroying million of lives and not thinking at all, including france, you would not have this shit here.

If you attack countries, bomb countries, try to force and dictate a change in other countries, you should not be surprised at some time in the future that they will bite you back and bring the war (or little taste of it) back to you.

Anyway there is nothing france can do now (it could maybe 10/20 years ago, but not now). They will increase probably bombing the desert or the city killing few more civilians for media and similar, and than go back to how it was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 15, 2016, 05:00:29 am

Even a good old fashioned crusade would have better results than nuking stuff. Too bad our current Pope is such a hippy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 15, 2016, 05:02:56 am

The Pope would literally be assassinated so fast if he tried to get involved with how incompetent security is lately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:05:22 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 04:34:21 am

World war? I doubt it. The only countries likely to object are the Muslim ones (discounting hippies, UN and so on who'd complain about civilian deaths) who are all dependent on the West for soldiers and weapons. Would be loads of unrest and terror, be we have that anyway.

Erm, I think there's more muslim coutries getting weapons from China and Russia than there's muslim countries getting weapons from the West.
Don't forget, arabs are just a small part of muslims. Most of the world's muslims live in Asia.
If you nuke Mecca and Medina you're quite likely to eat Pakistani nukes, and face an Indonesian invasion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 05:08:55 am

Quote from: miljan on July 15, 2016, 04:57:31 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 04:34:21 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:26:14 am

That's a mistake. the enemy is within, not somewhere in Raqqa or Mosul. the reason for the enemy being an enemy also isn't in Raqqa or Mosul, it's in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and such.

There's enemies all over the place, but the ones under arms are the most immediate threat. Frankly I'm in favour of invading pretty much every country in the Middle-east, but one thing at a time. Imperialism can wait.

That type of logic is what got us here with terrorist attacks. If countries did not start all this shit up in middle east with invading, destroying million of lives and not thinking at all, including france, you would not have this shit here.

If you attack countries, bomb countries, try to force and dictate a change in other countries, you should not be surprised at some time in the future that they will bite you back and bring the war (or little taste of it) back to you.

Anyway there is nothing france can do now (it could maybe 10/20 years ago, but not now). They will increase probably bombing the desert or the city killing few more civilians for media and similar, and than go back to how it was.

How come Japan, Korea, Germany, Israel, Mexico, China, Vietnam didn't manufacture masses of terrorists then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 15, 2016, 05:32:26 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 05:08:55 am

Quote from: miljan on July 15, 2016, 04:57:31 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 04:34:21 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:26:14 am

That's a mistake. the enemy is within, not somewhere in Raqqa or Mosul. the reason for the enemy being an enemy also isn't in Raqqa or Mosul, it's in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and such.

There's enemies all over the place, but the ones under arms are the most immediate threat. Frankly I'm in favour of invading pretty much every country in the Middle-east, but one thing at a time. Imperialism can wait.

That type of logic is what got us here with terrorist attacks. If countries did not start all this shit up in middle east with invading, destroying million of lives and not thinking at all, including france, you would not have this shit here.

If you attack countries, bomb countries, try to force and dictate a change in other countries, you should not be surprised at some time in the future that they will bite you back and bring the war (or little taste of it) back to you.

Anyway there is nothing france can do now (it could maybe 10/20 years ago, but not now). They will increase probably bombing the desert or the city killing few more civilians for media and similar, and than go back to how it was.

How come Japan, Korea, Germany, Israel, Mexico, China, Vietnam didn't manufacture masses of terrorists then?

I dont understand, what do all this countries have in common? What has vietnam that resisted USA invasion and won the war has to do with israel and constant terrorist attacks in that country as they invaded palestine, or a country like germany? Explain your self better because I dont know what your point is or what you are trying to say

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 15, 2016, 05:33:51 am

Bla
EDIT:
Offtopic: Is there a way to delete my post?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:35:50 am

They have in common that they were all bombed, invaded, and / or a regime change was forced upon them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:35:50 am

They have in common that they were all bombed, invaded, and / or a regime change was forced upon them.

What they don't have in common is that none of them had completely artificial frontiers made up by Britain/France playing map painting, resulting in a bunch of people who utterly hate each other having to live together.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:49 am

Is there any country that hasn't?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:48:17 am

Apparently the Nice truck was stopped when someone jumped in the cab to stop it, giving the police the opportunity to stop the terrorist, according to Estrosi, the regional president. Hats off to that hero.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:50:42 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:49 am

Is there any country that hasn't?

Most in Europe and the Americas? Terrorists aside, you usually don't see French killing other French because of their ethnicity. Spain is where it gets a bit more heated, but nowhere near the level of Africa and the Middle East.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:52:39 am

Actually, you ninja'ed me, I wanted to react to martinuzz :p.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:53:20 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:52:39 am

Actually, you ninja'ed me, I wanted to react to martinuzz :p.

Ah, sorry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:56:51 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:50:42 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:49 am

Is there any country that hasn't?

Most in Europe and the Americas? Terrorists aside, you usually don't see French killing other French because of their ethnicity. Spain is where it gets a bit more heated, but nowhere near the level of Africa and the Middle East.

Yeah, but is way too easy to simply blame that on colonial borders. Not saying they don't have a part in it, but there's lots of countries comprised of multiple ethnicities that were once hostile but now consider themselves one people and live together peacefully, within borders which are just as man-made.
The colonial borders have a larger part in it in central and West African countries than in arab countries.
I daresay the main reason for people utterly hating each other living together in the most prominent terrorist spawning countries has jack shit to do with colonial borders, and everything with religion. Sunni vs Shii, and them both vs heretics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 05:57:09 am

Nah, it's me, I should have edited that one out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:59:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:56:51 am

Yeah, but is way too easy to simply blame that on colonial borders. Not saying they don't have a part in it, but there's lots of countries comprised of multiple ethnicities that were once hostile but now consider themselves one people and live together peacefully.
The colonial borders have a larger part in it in central and West African countries than in arab countries.
I daresay the main reason for people utterly hating each other living together in the most prominent terrorist spawning countries has jack shit to do with colonial borders, and everything with religion. Sunni vs Shii, and them both vs heretics.

Which is probably not helped by bunching them up in a single place, taking whichever is the minority and putting those in power over people who oppressed them. Never goes wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 06:02:34 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:50:42 am

What they don't have in common is that none of them had completely artificial frontiers made up by Britain/France playing map painting, resulting in a bunch of people who utterly hate each other having to live together.

Which is an excuse/reason for terrorism, how exactly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 06:04:30 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:59:07 am

Taking whichever is the minority and putting those in power over people who oppressed them. Never goes wrong.

So you're saying the US should have never allowed a black person to be in charge?     [/sarcasm]

More seriously, what alternative did you have in mind? Support the oppressing majority?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 06:33:31 am

IMO the best bet is a foreign/UN-backed government with extremely extensive development programmes. Sink lots of money in, build hospitals, get people into education.
Next step is a gradual progression towards democracy, as the new generation of healthy, educated, hopefully non-violent people grows up. Once they look like they're taking care of themselves we can bugger off and offer them trade deals.

Basically the White Man's Burden, but less racist, and more expensive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 06:55:13 am

The UN is inefficient as fuck and foreign backed countries end up caught in crossfires for influence

What you need is strong independent countries free from corruption

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 07:03:01 am

Unless you plan to conjure a strong independent country out of thin air, you're probably going to need foreign support one way or the other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 07:46:15 am

Do you? Maybe one of the lessons of developmental aid is that there is no real solution. We can alleviate the suffering, but we cannot make them rich, that's something that countries must do themselves.

What we could probably do is stop forcing free trade on everyone so that developing countries can create an industrial base behind tariffs, like every rich country did at some point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:48:03 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:34:50 am

That would only serve to send 2 billion muslims who are now moderate and peaceful into a kafir killing frenzy that makes IS look like schoolgirls. Bad idea.

I would prefer to hear that nuking civilians is never an option. Because this is the real reason why this can't be done.

Besides I am relatively sure that there are no 2 billion Muslims in the world. There are people who identify themselves as such but thankfully there are far far less actual Muslims

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 07:51:56 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 07:46:15 am

What we could probably do is stop forcing free trade on everyone so that developing countries can create an industrial base behind tariffs, like every rich country did at some point.

Mercantilism doesn't guarantee a healthy government, they might turn out like the US

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:48:03 am

Besides I am relatively sure that there are no 2 billion Muslims in the world. There are people who identify themselves as such but thankfully there are far far less actual Muslims

Wut? Not everyone who calls themselves Muslim is Muslim, "thankfully"? Careful, you're starting to sound like an ISIS supporter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 07:54:54 am

Protectionism doesn't guarantee an healthy government (indeed, it create a lot of pitfalls for governments to fall in as once you start favouring firms, you can start favouring your buddies). It doesn't even guarantee economic development ('How Asia Works' makes the point that protectionism to give your firm ressources, plus pressure to export to submit them to competition on the international market works best) to developed status. But apart from a handful of city-state, no country became rich without it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:57:05 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 07:51:56 am

Wut? Not everyone who calls themselves Muslim is Muslim, "thankfully"? Careful, you're starting to sound like an ISIS supporter.

I sound like a guy who thinks that totalitarian ideology like Islam should be banned in any civilized country

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 08:05:57 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 07:03:01 am

Unless you plan to conjure a strong independent country out of thin air, you're probably going to need foreign support one way or the other.

I don't OW, I'm saying it's not the job for white people to take control of African countries for their own good - the long line of American freedoming the middle east has left a track record of mistakes and broken states, nothing has changed since then. Strong independent countries are not conjured out of thin air, they are built over long periods of time, there is nothing magical about white guidance that will revolutionarily succeed where it has failed in the past.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 08:11:21 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:57:05 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 07:51:56 am

Wut? Not everyone who calls themselves Muslim is Muslim, "thankfully"? Careful, you're starting to sound like an ISIS supporter.

I sound like a guy who thinks that totalitarian ideology like Islam should be banned in any civilized country

Hey come on man, #NotAllMuslims.  Don't bring moderate Muslims into this.  See, look at this moderate Muslim student defending her faith against evil, uh, Bankers?  Globalists? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiCxc4o)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 08:26:45 am

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 08:11:21 am

Hey come on man, #NotAllMuslims.  Don't bring moderate Muslims into this.  See, look at this moderate Muslim student defending her faith against evil, uh, Bankers?  Globalists? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPjpqiCxc4o)

Anti-banker = Anti-jew? Bit chilling when she leaned into the mic to say she was pro Holocaust II

Western students are just messed up af

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 08:32:17 am

There are plenty of reasonable Muslims in the world, the problem is that the amount of unreasonable ones is 1) much higher, and 2) they have an almost total control of many more countries (all pictures from this source (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/)):

Spoiler: sharia support among muslim (click to show/hide)

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-3.png)

Spoiler: sharia to control non-muslim (click to show/hide)

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-5.png)

Spoiler: stoning as punishment (click to show/hide)

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-8.png)

Spoiler: death for leaving islam (click to show/hide)

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-9.png)

Spoiler: opinion of laws that don't follow sharia (click to show/hide)

(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-11.png)

It's kind of a problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 08:42:06 am

chiki briki

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 15, 2016, 08:53:43 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:35:50 am

They have in common that they were all bombed, invaded, and / or a regime change was forced upon them.

What they don't have in common is that none of them had completely artificial frontiers made up by Britain/France playing map painting, resulting in a bunch of people who utterly hate each other having to live together.

Actually all those countries did, OK with Mexico it was Spain not France.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 09:03:14 am

Quote from: MarcAFK on July 15, 2016, 08:53:43 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 05:39:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 05:35:50 am

They have in common that they were all bombed, invaded, and / or a regime change was forced upon them.

What they don't have in common is that none of them had completely artificial frontiers made up by Britain/France playing map painting, resulting in a bunch of people who utterly hate each other having to live together.

Actually all those countries did, OK with Mexico it was Spain not France.

Uh, no? The vice-kingdoms split more along cultural lines than anything else. Otherwise there'd only be about 4 spanish-speaking nations in South America right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 09:14:55 am

The religious council of Saudi Arabia made a TV statement in response to the Nice attacks.
They said "islam approves of the sanctitiy of human life and forbids terrorism that kills, and brings fear to peaceful people in their houses, their markets or their work".
They be becoming more vocal ever since IS attacked Medina

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

I remember hearing that most Muslims who want Shariah law want it for Muslims. Like, in Muslim communities, not enforced blindly on everyone.

Also, any nuclear strike near Israel will result in them flipping their shit and quite possibly nuking everything as soon as they find out it's been launched.

EDIT: yeah, not really sure how those graphs paint a picture of Muslims being unreasonable. Maybe in Egypt, but the higher percentage Muslims, the less practical it is to have two separate law codes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 09:59:10 am

I see, the religion of peace is in the headlines again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 10:04:22 am

Where does this "Religion of Peace" EdgeMeme come from again?

Anyway, martinuzz, those kind of statements from major Muslim religious organization come pretty much every time there is a major terrorist attack in the West. That's nothing new.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 15, 2016, 10:06:26 am

Quote from: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 09:59:10 am

I see, the religion of peace is in the headlines again.

Pokemon? Yeah, Front page of the New York Times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 15, 2016, 10:12:10 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

I remember hearing that most Muslims who want Shariah law want it for Muslims. Like, in Muslim communities, not enforced blindly on everyone.

I am sure the many persecuted Muslim minority branches and peoples feels very secure with this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 10:14:30 am

I didnt know it was a meme in English-speaking world too... But thought you guys would still get the reference. We had some imam in a TV interview, I think it was after the Charlie Hebdo and Kosher store attacks, where he kept repeating this "islam is a religion of peace".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:57:05 am

I sound like a guy who thinks that totalitarian ideology like Islam should be banned in any civilized country

You want to ban an ideology? That's kinda totalitarian.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 08:05:57 am

I don't OW, I'm saying it's not the job for white people to take control of African countries for their own good - the long line of American freedoming the middle east has left a track record of mistakes and broken states, nothing has changed since then. Strong independent countries are not conjured out of thin air, they are built over long periods of time, there is nothing magical about white guidance that will revolutionarily succeed where it has failed in the past.

To be fair, American freedoming is mostly coups and airstrikes. Instability is inevitable.

I don't think that indefinite poverty and violent turmoil is necessary to create a stable country. I think that what has been achieved in the West can be achieved everywhere, and that if we can get there without people getting massacred, we absolutely should.
I've no evidence on what that path is, but something should be done. The status quo is terrible.

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 10:04:22 am

Where does this "Religion of Peace" EdgeMeme come from again?

Muslims insist that Islam is a religion of peace while apparently looking the other way from the rampant babrarism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 10:22:40 am

I'm not sure where it comes from in English, but it's definitely older than Hebdo. Like there is that "thereligionofpeace.com" website.

Regarding the whole middle-east and development thing, there was that long article (I think in the Atlantic?) about Obama's Foreign Policy Doctrine, and one of the thing the paper had him said was along the line of "There is a large bunch of violent nihilists there. We can't save them from themselves, but we can contain them so they don't prevent the rest of the world from moving onward." Prime exemple of that thinking is the fact that even though he was reluctant to get involved in Syria, he was ok with bombing ISIS, because if they grew they'd be a threat to the rest of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 15, 2016, 10:28:07 am

The "religion of peace" thing is people mocking the apologist mantra, yeah. It's as old as it's been used to disavow and handwave away acts of violence and oppression. "Islam is a religion of peace" is basically "No true Scotsman, Islam edition".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 10:31:22 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 15, 2016, 10:04:22 am

Where does this "Religion of Peace" EdgeMeme come from again?

From "behead those who insult the religion of peace" guy

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

To be fair, American freedoming is mostly coups and airstrikes. Instability is inevitable.

American freedoming is not mostly coups and airstrikes, that's what their strategic fund and investment is for. I'm talking about countries they haven't bombed too. And get this - the Americans are doing the best job imo to helping foreign nations develop themselves.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

I don't think that indefinite poverty and violent turmoil is necessary to create a stable country. I think that what has been achieved in the West can be achieved everywhere, and that if we can get there without people getting massacred, we absolutely should.
I've no evidence on what that path is, but something should be done. The status quo is terrible.

What has been achieved in the West can't be achieved everywhere, this is a patent delusion that ignores literate populations, cultural beliefs, historical development and the massive epochal wars that killed millions to define the modern democracy.
Look at Nigeria. Three large populations that were once at war with one another, of different religions, races and cultures, conflict over oil and even at one point a civil war - yet Nigeria remains one Nigeria, with one civic people. Nigeria is economically developing quite well with the assistance of foreign investment, that is nonetheless hindered by corruption and the lack of any assistance for victims of scams. Thus Nigeria needs to construct a robust legal system and a transparent government, something you can't will into existence overnight. Nigerians understand Nigeria better than white Americans, thus they should be aided in their own independence, not having their independence taken by whites who really do not know better and should stop treating Africa like America.

*EDIT
Whilst I should stress it is a cautionary tale for White America, it is not a cautionary tale for White Europe, which does in actuality think itself enlightened enough to rule over Africa with its benevolent guidance. West Africa (http://nsnbc.me/2012/10/12/french-africa-policy-damages-african-and-european-economies/) has plenty reason (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jun/09/eu-european-union-accused-exporting-problem-overfishing-mauritania-deal) to distrust the European Union.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 10:46:30 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 15, 2016, 10:34:58 am

The problem with claiming anything is peaceful is that it's always inherently wrong.

Or, to quote a character from Green Mars:
“You can't get any movement larger than five people without including at least one fucking idiot.”

The issue however, in this case, is that from what I understand Islam (Or at least the original version) DOES condone violence. Obviously there are moderates, and they're probably in the majority in western countries, but still.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZbjHxit.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 11:01:04 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

EDIT: yeah, not really sure how those graphs paint a picture of Muslims being unreasonable. Maybe in Egypt, but the higher percentage Muslims, the less practical it is to have two separate law codes.

Having a large minority (and, in a lot of countries, majority) that advocates to kill anyone who leaves their organization, and to make the rules of their organization extend towards people outside of that organization, doesn't strike me as very reasonable. Unless you support totalitarist regimes that did exactly that in the past.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 15, 2016, 12:12:32 pm

Quote from: scriver on July 15, 2016, 10:12:10 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

I remember hearing that most Muslims who want Shariah law want it for Muslims. Like, in Muslim communities, not enforced blindly on everyone.

I am sure the many persecuted Muslim minority branches and peoples feels very secure with this.

I know a girl from Indonesia who later imigrated to hungary who swears that the most dangerous time for her to go out on the streets was during the one muslim holiday in which every business is forced to close, despite the fact its a muslim only holiday. She told me going out on the streets during that time was asking to get ganked by multiple muslim men with not very nice intentions.

Reeleejun of pehss.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 12:50:19 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

You want to ban an ideology? That's kinda totalitarian.

Neo-nazies and other white racists agree with you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 15, 2016, 12:53:55 pm

I find it ironic coming from a guy who claims Bandera was a hero, UPA were good guys and Volhynian massacres were A-Okay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 01:23:46 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 15, 2016, 01:17:46 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 10:46:30 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 15, 2016, 10:34:58 am

The problem with claiming anything is peaceful is that it's always inherently wrong.

Or, to quote a character from Green Mars:
“You can't get any movement larger than five people without including at least one fucking idiot.”

The issue however, in this case, is that from what I understand Islam (Or at least the original version) DOES condone violence. Obviously there are moderates, and they're probably in the majority in western countries, but still.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZbjHxit.jpg)

I'm guessing that sign was a joke.

Spoiler: You have great faith in the self-awareness of man (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/zfotuCN.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 15, 2016, 02:45:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 01:23:46 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 15, 2016, 01:17:46 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 10:46:30 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 15, 2016, 10:34:58 am

The problem with claiming anything is peaceful is that it's always inherently wrong.

Or, to quote a character from Green Mars:
“You can't get any movement larger than five people without including at least one fucking idiot.”

The issue however, in this case, is that from what I understand Islam (Or at least the original version) DOES condone violence. Obviously there are moderates, and they're probably in the majority in western countries, but still.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZbjHxit.jpg)

I'm guessing that sign was a joke.

Spoiler: You have great faith in the self-awareness of man (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/zfotuCN.jpg)

'Fantastic 4 are on their way'? WTF?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on July 15, 2016, 02:50:52 pm

Quote from: scrdest on July 15, 2016, 02:45:30 pm

'Fantastic 4 are on their way'? WTF?

Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on July 15, 2016, 02:54:08 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on July 15, 2016, 02:50:52 pm

Quote from: scrdest on July 15, 2016, 02:45:30 pm

'Fantastic 4 are on their way'? WTF?

Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali?

No place for Muhammad, Saladin and others ? ;-; 7

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 02:57:33 pm

You managed to deduce that a crowd of people calling for the execution of people who don't adhere to their ideology is pretty intolerant, well done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on July 15, 2016, 03:07:05 pm

As if the Bataclan massacre wasn't bad enough. http://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:12:14 pm

At this moment a military coup is going on in Turkey. There's tanks on the streets in Ankara and Istanbul, and the prime minister has stated there is a coup ongoing.
Eyewitnesses also report fighters and helicopters over Ankara and Istanbul.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:12:57 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:12:14 pm

At this moment a military coup is going on in Turkey. There's tanks on the streets in Ankara and Istanbul, and the prime minister has stated there is a coup ongoing.

Wait, is Erdogan taking power as the one true sultan or being taken out?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:18:01 pm

A glimpse into the minds and motivations behind attacks like the ones in Nice.

https://twitter.com/EnziFalah/status/754044694703828992

I think Nasrallah got it all wrong. the "Westerner" will never understand this idea, since he can't truly grasp that these people actually believe in this idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:18:41 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

dunno, if it results in getting rd of Erdogan and reinstating secularism, it'd be pretty okay.

Gonna be hard though, seeing that Erdogan isn't even in Turkey atm. He's at a Eurasian heads of state conference in Mongolia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:20:36 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:18:01 pm

A glimpse into the minds and motivations behind attacks like the ones in Nice.

https://twitter.com/EnziFalah/status/754044694703828992 (https://twitter.com/EnziFalah/status/754044694703828992)

I think Nasrallah got it all wrong. the "Westerner" will never understand this idea, since he can't truly grasp that these people actually believe in this idea.

Why you linking twitter accounts that get you redflagged by all intelligence agencies in the western world?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:23:41 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:18:41 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

dunno, if it results in getting rd of Erdogan and reinstating secularism, it'd be pretty okay.

Gonna be hard though, seeing that Erdogan isn't even in Turkey atm. He's at a world leader conference in Mongolia.

Yeah man, military coups always lead to much better regimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:25:37 pm

Sometimes they do

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:26:02 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:23:41 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:18:41 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

dunno, if it results in getting rd of Erdogan and reinstating secularism, it'd be pretty okay.

Gonna be hard though, seeing that Erdogan isn't even in Turkey atm. He's at a world leader conference in Mongolia.

Yeah man, military coups always lead to much better regimes.

Totally. For sure won't lead to a totalitarian and oppressive regime, no sir.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:25:37 pm

Sometimes they do

Do you honestly think a military uprising and takeover in fucking Turkey will lead to an enlightened secular democracy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 15, 2016, 03:31:09 pm

If memory serves, this wouldn't be the first military coup in Turkey that left the place nicer than it was when they showed up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:31:57 pm

Military coups in Turkey have historically had a tendency to move the country more towards being a secular republic.

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:25:37 pm

Sometimes they do

Do you honestly think a military uprising and takeover in fucking Turkey will lead to an enlightened secular democracy?

So, yeah, slightly.

Better example perhaps. The USA. Military coup took them from being loyal british crown servants to being a constitutional state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:33:25 pm

A coup in Turkey? hmm, i would say what a surprise (it is, i actually thought Erdogan managed to defuse the army), but then again, Turkey is known for having an average of a military coup every roughly 20 years, and hey, it's been 19.5 years since the last one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:35:55 pm

The Turkish army reports that the military coup is succesful.
I guess Erdogan can buy a ticket from Mongolia to Georgia now.

Turkish Facebook, Twitter and Youtube have been taken offline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:45:45 pm

Military realeased a statement saying their coup is succesful. They say that human rights will be respected, and all foreign relations be maintained as they are.
Furthermore they stress that their main priority now is to ensure laws and constitution are upheld.

The Turkish prime minister however denies the coup being succesful, and says only a small part of the army is rebelling, and security forces are doing everything to restore order. He says that "those responsible will pay the highest price"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miauw62 on July 15, 2016, 03:49:09 pm

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:26:02 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:23:41 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:18:41 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

dunno, if it results in getting rd of Erdogan and reinstating secularism, it'd be pretty okay.

Gonna be hard though, seeing that Erdogan isn't even in Turkey atm. He's at a world leader conference in Mongolia.

Yeah man, military coups always lead to much better regimes.

Totally. For sure won't lead to a totalitarian and oppressive regime, no sir.

So, no change? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:52:09 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on July 15, 2016, 03:49:09 pm

Quote from: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:26:02 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:23:41 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:18:41 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 03:14:35 pm

Oh boy.  This just can't be good.

dunno, if it results in getting rd of Erdogan and reinstating secularism, it'd be pretty okay.

Gonna be hard though, seeing that Erdogan isn't even in Turkey atm. He's at a world leader conference in Mongolia.

Yeah man, military coups always lead to much better regimes.

Totally. For sure won't lead to a totalitarian and oppressive regime, no sir.

So, no change? :P

Did Erdogan actively kidnap and torture people who disagreed with the regime? I am honestly asking, I don't know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:54:14 pm

Yes, mostly journalists. Erdogan's Turkey is on the Amnesty blacklist being in the top 5 of countries with least press freedom, and most journalists in jail.
Apart from that, Erdogan's been pushing hard to genocide all Kurds in Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

No matter the results, Turkey is going to greatly suffer from this in the coming years.

Reduced tourism, check.
Capital flight, check.
Reduction of foreign investment, check,
Increased terrorist attacks, check.
Stomping even more civil rights, check.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on July 15, 2016, 04:01:12 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:25:37 pm

Sometimes they do

Do you honestly think a military uprising and takeover in fucking Turkey will lead to an enlightened secular democracy?

Happened with Atatürk, can't see why it couldn't happen again as long as there are Atatürkists in the army.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:01:36 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

No matter the results, Turkey is going to greatly suffer from this in the coming years.

Reduced tourism

Nah, tourists are used to Turkey having a military coup every once in a while

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Capital flight 

Possible

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Reduction of foreign investment

Probably not, western investors likely to be happy to see Erdogan go

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Increased terrorist attacks

No. Army hates IS more than Erdogan hates IS, plus good chance the army will stop the war with PKK, and PKK will stop terrorist attacks

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Stomping even more civil rights

no, military coups in Turkey have been known to improve civil rights by getting rid of despots, and protecting Atatürk's Constitutional Republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 04:07:50 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:01:36 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

No matter the results, Turkey is going to greatly suffer from this in the coming years.

Reduced tourism

Nah, tourists are used to Turkey having a military coup every once in a while

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Capital flight 

Possible

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Reduction of foreign investment

Probably not, western investors likely to be happy to see Erdogan go

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Increased terrorist attacks

No. Army hates IS more than Erdogan hates IS, plus good chance the army will stop the war with PKK, and PKK will stop terrorist attacks

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:58:22 pm

Stomping even more civil rights

no, military coups in Turkey have been known to improve civil rights by getting rid of despots, and protecting Ataturk's Constitutional Republic.

That last bit is actually kinda sad :v

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 04:09:57 pm

The military at least exchanged shots with the police in Istanbul and struck a training center in Ankara.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:11:00 pm

Turkish social media are back online. There some conspiracy theories going on there now that the coup is a fake, staged by Erdogan, so he can seize more power afterwards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 04:12:16 pm

I dunno. He apparently left the country already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:12:50 pm

This is turkey's hot season. if you planned a vacation in Turkey in July/August and haven't cancelled yet, you are a brave man. Tourism will be reduced no matter the outcome.

Investors prefer a stable country over a moral country and Turkey just became unstable.

If the coup is successful, Erdogan Islamists will wage an insurgency. if it's not, deserting army personnel would flock to the kurds for their insurgency. the times are different now, the secularism that the military promotes are not as popular within the population as it used to be.

Check again the coups that happened in turkey, some resulted in the reduction of civil liberty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:16:33 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:12:50 pm

Investors prefer a stable country over a moral country and Turkey just became unstable.

Not nescessarily. Turkey was pretty unstable as is. War with PKK intensified, secularism declining, a president who wants to completely re-write the constitution...
TBH I think there's quite a few investors who'll think "it's about damn time that coup happened"

Quote from: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 04:12:16 pm

I dunno. He apparently left the country already.

He didn't leave, he was absent, busy at an international summit. He has withdrawn from the summit now, and has been "taken to safety"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:35:15 pm

Yes, they probably do think it, but will they invest their money now? reason says they would wait out to see the longer term outcome of this coup but in the mean time, withhold their investments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: werty892 on July 15, 2016, 04:37:53 pm

The tl;dr is that this has all happened before, and could happen again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_involvement_in_politics

The Military is considered defenders of the constitution/democaracy/secularisim/Kemalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism)

Edrogan fucked up by subverting this and is getting removed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 04:38:55 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:16:33 pm

He didn't leave, he was absent, busy at an international summit. He has withdrawn from the summit now, and has been "taken to safety"

Yes he did! Now seeking asulym... in Germany! Game over for him and AKP!

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 15, 2016, 04:39:41 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:35:15 pm

Yes, they probably do think it, but will they invest their money now? reason says they would wait out to see the longer term outcome of this coup but in the mean time, withhold their investments.

Markets don't like uncertainty. No new money for a bit, probably.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:46:58 pm

"Sorry mister Erdogan, to apply for a refugee status you will first need to go and register yourself in a Turkish refugee camp"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:50:13 pm

Will they send a Syrian refugee back to Turkey in exchange for Erdogan? by the last deal they are supposed to...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 04:55:28 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 04:50:13 pm

Will they send a Syrian refugee back to Turkey in exchange for Erdogan? by the last deal they are supposed to...

No we need a Syrian president for that. If Erdogan can arrange for Assad to wash ashore on a Greek island, he can come to Europe in exchange for Assad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 05:25:56 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on July 15, 2016, 03:07:05 pm

As if the Bataclan massacre wasn't bad enough. http://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-france-suppressed-news-of-gruesome-torture-at-bataclan-massacre/

Quote

Prosecutor: I specify, for the sake of clarity: some of the bodies found at the Bataclan were extremely mutilated by the explosions and weapons, to the point that it was sometimes difficult to reconstruct the dismembered bodies. In other words, injuries described this father may also have been caused by automatic weapons, by explosions or projections of nails and bolts that have resulted.

Q. Would those have put a man’s balls in in his own mouth?

Prosecutor: I do not have that information.

What a sad state

Quote from: Vilanat on July 15, 2016, 03:18:01 pm

A glimpse into the minds and motivations behind attacks like the ones in Nice.
https://twitter.com/EnziFalah/status/754044694703828992
I think Nasrallah got it all wrong. the "Westerner" will never understand this idea, since he can't truly grasp that these people actually believe in this idea.

It is peculiar how the majority of political science in regards to why people die for what they believe in is done by secularists

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 15, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 15, 2016, 03:25:37 pm

Sometimes they do

Do you honestly think a military uprising and takeover in fucking Turkey will lead to an enlightened secular democracy?

The Turkish military has normally been a moderating, secularist and democratic influence upon Turkish politics, its recent state of non-interference has been somewhat anomalous in that regard and allowed Erdogan to rise to great power
My guess is the Turkish military are taking it back

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 15, 2016, 05:30:59 pm

I just saw on the live stream how the men guarding a bridge shot at the crowd...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 07:19:47 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 11:01:04 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

EDIT: yeah, not really sure how those graphs paint a picture of Muslims being unreasonable. Maybe in Egypt, but the higher percentage Muslims, the less practical it is to have two separate law codes.

Having a large minority (and, in a lot of countries, majority) that advocates to kill anyone who leaves their organization, and to make the rules of their organization extend towards people outside of that organization, doesn't strike me as very reasonable. Unless you support totalitarist regimes that did exactly that in the past.

But that's not what you said, Sergarr. You said, and I quote,

Quote

There are plenty of reasonable Muslims in the world, the problem is that the amount of unreasonable ones is 1) much higher, and 2) they have an almost total control of many more countries

Followed by graphs. Let's examine those graphs. Now, before we do, I want to be clear that I am under the impression that what you meant was that the number of Muslim individuals who we are considering unreasonable outnumbers the number of Muslims who we are considering reasonable. Also, keep in mind I live in the United States. I bring this up because our conservative fundamentalist Christians? Which is not an insignificant minority, though thankfully growing smaller, is almost as bad as the fundamentalist Islam you're concerned about. A bit fewer death penalties, at least afaik.
First, by country.
So, of the countries surveyed, 25 out of 38 have the majority of Muslims desirous of Shariah law being implemented.
Additionally, out of the 21 countries/territories surveyed, only 4 have a clear majority of the Muslims who want Shariah law to have it apply to non-Muslims. Two more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 8 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of stoning being the punishment for adultery. Three more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 6 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of death being the punishment for converting away from Islam.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, eleven have a clear majority of Muslims who believe that the laws do not follow proper shariah law believing that it is a bad thing.

Now, I'll try to analyze it by population, very vaguely. Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Egypt are the most relevant countries here, in that order. Iran would be in there, but it's not surveyed for some reason, and neither Thailand nor Russia are majority Muslim, and they surveyed them in a different way/area anyway. Ethiopia's Muslim population also falls below the vague threshold I'm using, and they aren't the majority there.

Actually, I may have more time than I thought, so I think I might do them all.

Spoiler: Islamic Population of Surveyed Countries (click to show/hide)

Indonesia - ~225.6 million
Pakistan - ~197 million
Bangladesh - ~149.4 million
Egypt - ~82.1 million
Turkey - ~76.7 million
Iraq - ~35 million
Morocco - ~34 million
Afghanistan - ~ 27.7 million
Malaysia - ~ 20.7 million
Kazakhstan - ~12.4 million
Russia - ~9.4 million + ~1.7 million from Chechnya and Igushetia
Tunisia - ~11 million
Tajikistan - ~8.6 million
Jordan - ~5 million
Kyrgyzstan - ~ 4.5 million
Palestine - ~4.2 million
Thailand - ~3.1 million
Lebanon - ~2.4 million
Bosnia and Herzegovina - ~1.8 million
Kosovo - ~1.7 million
Albania - ~1.7 million
Total: 950.7 million

Spoiler: Resulting numbers (click to show/hide)

So. Indonesia: 162.4 million support shariah law. Of those, 81.2 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Pakistan: 165.5 million support shariah law. Of those, 56.3 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Bangladesh: 122.5 million support shariah law. Of those, 47.7 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Egypt: 60.8 million support shariah law. Of those, 45 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Turkey: 9.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 4 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Iraq: 31.9 million support shariah law. Of those, 12.1 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Morocco: 28.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 8.2 million it should apply to non-Muslims.
Afghanistan: 27.4 million support shariah law. Of those, 16.7 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Malaysia: 17.8 million support shariah law. Of those, 7.3 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Kazakhstan: 1.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 0.2 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Russia: 4.7 million support shariah law in Muslim areas. Of those, 1 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Tunisia: 6.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 2.5 million think it should apply to non Muslims.

Now, I don't really want to do the math for the remaining countries, as low Muslim-populations as they are. Sorry, Tajikistan. I think we get a pretty good picture from these countries. 917.7 million already calculated for, after all.
Total number of Muslims supporting shariah law in their country: 637.8 million - Percentage: 69.5% of Muslims
Total number of Muslims who believe shariah law should apply to non-Muslims: 282.2 million Percentage: 44.2% of Muslims who support shariah law, 30.8% of total Muslims.

This was entirely done using Wikipedia for Islamic population percentages and country populations, and the graphs Sergarr presented. So, I would say as a preliminary estimate, that his original statement, seen above, is erroneous.

Changing the meaning halfway through when I challenged him on it (so that 'it's not very reasonable to have a large minority that likes things I think are bad'), and then imply that I support totalitarian regimes, feels like an affront to me personally, let alone everyone here who wants honest debate and discussion. Please refrain from doing so again in the future, Sergarr.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 07:43:33 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 07:19:47 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 11:01:04 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 09:25:29 am

EDIT: yeah, not really sure how those graphs paint a picture of Muslims being unreasonable. Maybe in Egypt, but the higher percentage Muslims, the less practical it is to have two separate law codes.

Having a large minority (and, in a lot of countries, majority) that advocates to kill anyone who leaves their organization, and to make the rules of their organization extend towards people outside of that organization, doesn't strike me as very reasonable. Unless you support totalitarist regimes that did exactly that in the past.

But that's not what you said, Sergarr. You said, and I quote,

Quote

There are plenty of reasonable Muslims in the world, the problem is that the amount of unreasonable ones is 1) much higher, and 2) they have an almost total control of many more countries

Followed by graphs. Let's examine those graphs. Now, before we do, I want to be clear that I am under the impression that what you meant was that the number of Muslim individuals who we are considering unreasonable outnumbers the number of Muslims who we are considering reasonable. Also, keep in mind I live in the United States. I bring this up because our conservative fundamentalist Christians? Which is not an insignificant minority, though thankfully growing smaller, is almost as bad as the fundamentalist Islam you're concerned about. A bit fewer death penalties, at least afaik.
First, by country.
So, of the countries surveyed, 25 out of 38 have the majority of Muslims desirous of Shariah law being implemented.
Additionally, out of the 21 countries/territories surveyed, only 4 have a clear majority of the Muslims who want Shariah law to have it apply to non-Muslims. Two more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 8 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of stoning being the punishment for adultery. Three more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 6 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of death being the punishment for converting away from Islam.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, eleven have a clear majority of Muslims who believe that the laws do not follow proper shariah law believing that it is a bad thing.

Now, I'll try to analyze it by population, very vaguely. Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Egypt are the most relevant countries here, in that order. Iran would be in there, but it's not surveyed for some reason, and neither Thailand nor Russia are majority Muslim, and they surveyed them in a different way/area anyway. Ethiopia's Muslim population also falls below the vague threshold I'm using, and they aren't the majority there.

Actually, I may have more time than I thought, so I think I might do them all.

Spoiler: Islamic Population of Surveyed Countries (click to show/hide)

Indonesia - ~225.6 million
Pakistan - ~197 million
Bangladesh - ~149.4 million
Egypt - ~82.1 million
Turkey - ~76.7 million
Iraq - ~35 million
Morocco - ~34 million
Afghanistan - ~ 27.7 million
Malaysia - ~ 20.7 million
Kazakhstan - ~12.4 million
Russia - ~9.4 million + ~1.7 million from Chechnya and Igushetia
Tunisia - ~11 million
Tajikistan - ~8.6 million
Jordan - ~5 million
Kyrgyzstan - ~ 4.5 million
Palestine - ~4.2 million
Thailand - ~3.1 million
Lebanon - ~2.4 million
Bosnia and Herzegovina - ~1.8 million
Kosovo - ~1.7 million
Albania - ~1.7 million
Total: 950.7 million

Spoiler: Resulting numbers (click to show/hide)

So. Indonesia: 162.4 million support shariah law. Of those, 81.2 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Pakistan: 165.5 million support shariah law. Of those, 56.3 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Bangladesh: 122.5 million support shariah law. Of those, 47.7 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Egypt: 60.8 million support shariah law. Of those, 45 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Turkey: 9.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 4 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Iraq: 31.9 million support shariah law. Of those, 12.1 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Morocco: 28.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 8.2 million it should apply to non-Muslims.
Afghanistan: 27.4 million support shariah law. Of those, 16.7 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Malaysia: 17.8 million support shariah law. Of those, 7.3 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Kazakhstan: 1.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 0.2 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Russia: 4.7 million support shariah law in Muslim areas. Of those, 1 million think it should apply to non-Muslims.
Tunisia: 6.2 million support shariah law. Of those, 2.5 million think it should apply to non Muslims.

Now, I don't really want to do the math for the remaining countries, as low Muslim-populations as they are. Sorry, Tajikistan. I think we get a pretty good picture from these countries. 917.7 million already calculated for, after all.
Total number of Muslims supporting shariah law in their country: 637.8 million - Percentage: 69.5% of Muslims
Total number of Muslims who believe shariah law should apply to non-Muslims: 282.2 million Percentage: 44.2% of Muslims who support shariah law, 30.8% of total Muslims.

This was entirely done using Wikipedia for Islamic population percentages and country populations, and the graphs Sergarr presented. So, I would say as a preliminary estimate, that his original statement, seen above, is erroneous.

Changing the meaning halfway through when I challenged him on it (so that 'it's not very reasonable to have a large minority that likes things I think are bad'), and then imply that I support totalitarian regimes, feels like an affront to me personally, let alone everyone here who wants honest debate and discussion. Please refrain from doing so again in the future, Sergarr.

Okay, no:

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 07:19:47 pm

Total number of Muslims supporting shariah law in their country: 637.8 million - Percentage: 69.5% of Muslims
Total number of Muslims who believe shariah law should apply to non-Muslims: 282.2 million Percentage: 44.2% of Muslims who support shariah law, 30.8% of total Muslims.

70% of Muslim supporting Sharia law is very much in line with my statement #1 of, cite,

Quote

There are plenty of reasonable Muslims in the world, the problem is that the amount of unreasonable ones is 1) much higher, and 2) they have an almost total control of many more countries

These laws are fucking barbaric piece of garbage that support stoning people to death and killing people who convert out of Islam. The fact that there exist a large fucking minority of Muslim that also supports applying these laws to non-Muslim people in violation of actual Koran, AFAIK, is just an icing on the cake of abhorrent anti-secular garbage.

As for my statement #2:

Quote

So, of the countries surveyed, 25 out of 38 have the majority of Muslims desirous of Shariah law being implemented.
Additionally, out of the 21 countries/territories surveyed, only 4 have a clear majority of the Muslims who want Shariah law to have it apply to non-Muslims. Two more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 8 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of stoning being the punishment for adultery. Three more are torn on the subject.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, 6 have a clear majority of Muslims who favor Shariah Law being in favor of death being the punishment for converting away from Islam.
Out of the 20 countries surveyed, eleven have a clear majority of Muslims who believe that the laws do not follow proper shariah law believing that it is a bad thing.

The problem here seems that you believe that people who want "just" Sharia law are reasonable people. They're fucking not. The moment the Sharia law gets actually implemented, even if it's in limited form, the percentage of people calling for further radical measures - like stoning and other stuff - will skyrocket and rapidly form a majority, because the Overtone Window of "what's an acceptable change" will by then radically shift towards allowing that stuff - and because there's a very strong push within the Muslim community towards it, coupled by lack of any meaningful internal opposition to it.

Just look at the graphs for all countries who currently have de-facto Sharia law, like Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. There seems to be no such thing as "reasonable Sharia". At least, if it exists, there's no example of it existing in real world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 15, 2016, 07:49:24 pm

Sergarr pls, that's a slippery slope fallacy, Saudi Arabia is a bastion of progressive liberalism the West should educate itself on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 08:36:27 pm

I don't consider people thinking that their religious law should be actual law are unreasonable. I think they're wrong, but I don't find it to be an unreasonable thing for someone to want.

And shariah law/quranic law has specific parts intended for non-believers, mostly relating to economic and criminal law and the penalties involved.

Jailing women for getting an abortion is also barbaric. See how many people in my country think that should be the case. Refusing to acknowledge birth control as an option results in how many thousands of young women getting pregnant before they're in a situation to support a child? Jail systems where you can't even get medical care as a pregnant teenager, and dying after less than thirty days is barbaric. Maybe you and I just have different frames of reference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 15, 2016, 09:27:07 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 08:36:27 pm

Maybe you and I just have different frames of reference.

Yes, most definitely. This is the excellent example of the Overtone Window in effect - for me, it's simply unthinkable that a religious law can overturn a governmental one - all people are under one law, after all; but in your country, it's something which is widely considered as being possible.

It is why I believe that giving in to the Sharia law (and any other kind of fundamentalist religious/ideologic law, in fact - I do not condone Christians when they try to force their ancient laws on the secular society, at all), no matter how limited, would have a horrible effect simply because it would shift the definitions of what's acceptable and what's not - and it would shift it in a very bad direction. So it's better to just stop that altogether, in my opinion - to prevent what you've said was happening in your country from happening in mine, and in all its neighbours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 10:17:31 pm

This has never not been the case in America.
Also, implementing a democratic religious government might be a lot more helpful than trying to institute a secular democratic government, in terms of stability, in those countries where the majority of the population wants religious law anyway and would just vote it into effect as soon as you let them.

And if you don't let them, then it's not exactly a democracy, is it? It's foreigners forcing their values on the country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:51:02 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 10:17:31 pm

And if you don't let them, then it's not exactly a democracy, is it? It's foreigners forcing their values on the country.

Screw democracy, western secularism is objectively superior

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on July 15, 2016, 11:57:07 pm

Guys, it looks like the coup is failing. Don't get too excited.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 16, 2016, 12:04:13 am

Quote from: misko27 on July 15, 2016, 11:57:07 pm

Guys, it looks like the coup is failing. Don't get too excited.

Evidence?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on July 16, 2016, 12:10:17 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:51:02 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 15, 2016, 10:17:31 pm

And if you don't let them, then it's not exactly a democracy, is it? It's foreigners forcing their values on the country.

Screw democracy, western secularism is objectively superior

From what I've read about post-colonial or communist states from WWII forward, before a stable secular and democratic state can be made, it requires international/domestic security, a successful industrialized economy, above-average education, and political sophistication that satisfies the people's beliefs without appealing mostly to religion or ethnic conflict. If any of these aren't met by the first 20 years or so after independence, the state is usually doomed to flounder in cycles of dictatorship and corruption that is extremely difficult to recover from. Secularism isn't necessary to fulfill any of those requirements, nor is a functional democracy (in fact it's often been a hindrance), but if they're all met, suddenly ideas such as secularism and democracy have real natural appeal and material benefit, which is what's really needed for the people to want it enough to demand and hold onto it.

The difficulty is that these countries are dominated by autocrats who devote the vast majority of their energy to the first item in that list, and typically have no motivation to develop education and the economy when the state can fund itself on oil or mineral exports instead of a developed economy. The result is that a large disgruntled populace is left with 19th century political ideals of simple nationalism and religious morality, making democracy unworkable (even if the people in charge wanted it to work), let alone a modern secular democracy. I also wouldn't read too much into those figures about most muslims wanting Sharia law; muslims who live under the Islamist governments that seriously implement Sharia law instead of just paying lip service to it sing a very different tune. It's a bit like people voting for Brexit and then regretting it, only replace "voting for Brexit" with "getting murdered by the Taliban".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 16, 2016, 12:27:14 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 16, 2016, 12:04:13 am

Quote from: misko27 on July 15, 2016, 11:57:07 pm

Guys, it looks like the coup is failing. Don't get too excited.

Evidence?

Erdogan came home (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083); upset at army's irresponsibility during the empty (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WkhZTkn4z6A)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 16, 2016, 12:39:25 am

It looks like a war of words now for all sides

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 01:10:13 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 12:50:19 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

You want to ban an ideology? That's kinda totalitarian.

Neo-nazies and other white racists agree with you.

I'm pretty sure anyone who values freedom of expression will agree with me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 16, 2016, 03:19:33 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 01:10:13 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 12:50:19 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 15, 2016, 10:19:44 am

You want to ban an ideology? That's kinda totalitarian.

Neo-nazies and other white racists agree with you.

I'm pretty sure anyone who values freedom of expression will agree with me

Do you know who likes unlimited freedom of expression the most? One who plan to totally destroy it once they come to power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 03:49:08 am

Okay, hang on. I think your argument's asinine but we should probably work through this properly.

First, how is banning an ideology in any way not totalitarian?

Second, why does this not conflict with your assertion:

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:57:05 am

I sound like a guy who thinks that totalitarian ideology like Islam should be banned in any civilized country

... that Islam should be banned because it is totalitarian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 04:04:23 am

Ok, Germany bans Nazism now. Is the BRD a totalitarian state?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 16, 2016, 04:12:22 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 03:49:08 am

Okay, hang on. I think your argument's asinine but we should probably work through this properly.

First, how is banning an ideology in any way not totalitarian?

Second, why does this not conflict with your assertion:

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 15, 2016, 07:57:05 am

I sound like a guy who thinks that totalitarian ideology like Islam should be banned in any civilized country

... that Islam should be banned because it is totalitarian?

Let's start with a definition of what totalitarianism is. When I say totalitarianism I mean

the political concept that the citizen should be totally subject to an absolute state authority

Under this definition enforcing one ideology is totalitarian , banning one\few of them is not.

Do you have some other definition of the world? When we discuss politics and various isms we better be sure that we are speaking about the same things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 16, 2016, 04:27:28 am

(removed)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 04:31:40 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 16, 2016, 04:12:22 am

Do you have some other definition of the world? When we discuss politics and various isms we better be sure that we are speaking about the same things.

Basically what you said, but a little looser.

Quote from: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 04:04:23 am

Ok, Germany bans Nazism now. Is the BRD a totalitarian state?

A little, I guess? Of course it's not like they've got Though Police roaming around, but preventing people from publicly supporting the ideology is absolutely impinging on the idea of free speech.
That said, it is also completely justified (because Nazism), and UR, if you'd said "ban Sharia law" I would be inclined to agree.
But Islam is not Sharia, and on its own it's only kinda crappy compared to other religions. If someone said to ban Christianity because Biblical law is barbaric and totalitarian, I would be similarly concerned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 04:40:06 am

Yeah, I think UR is using some kind of "No True Muslim" argument, since he said earlier than a lot of people who identify as muslims aren't muslim.

Still, the concept of a state being "a bit totalitarian" is ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 04:58:01 am

Does it have to be black and white totalitarian/nottotalitarian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 05:20:19 am

Is it totalitarian to ban totalitarianism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 16, 2016, 05:37:13 am

So the Turkish military coup has officially failed. More than 190 killed, over 1000 injured, and 1500 arrested. There are videos where army using tanks ignored civilian and drive directly over them. Some opened fire on civilians that were marching toward them to disarm the military. Big part of military was still loyal to Erdogan, and also he used civilians to get out on streets and protest/encircle and try to disarm the rebel military positions. 

It was started by one of replaced generals with support from Fethullah Gulen from Pennsylvania , at least thats what Erdogan is saying. "Erdogan pinned the blame on a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. for starting the attack."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 05:43:13 am

Quote from: miljan on July 16, 2016, 05:37:13 am

So the Turkish military coup has officially failed. More than 190 killed, over 1000 injured, and 1500 arrested. There are videos where army using tanks ignored civilian and drive directly over them. Some opened fire on civilians that were marching toward them to disarm the military. Big part of military was still loyal to Erdogan, and also he used civilians to get out on streets and protest/encircle and try to disarm the rebel military positions. 

That was a shitshow

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 16, 2016, 05:48:42 am

I think this is the first time a military coup in turkey failed, at least for the last 4 or 5 times it happened, not totally sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 16, 2016, 06:18:09 am

This isin't like the last 4 or 5 times. It was small, disorganized and really shitty coup, so apparently people are suspecting that this was all actually set up by Erdogan to gain more power. I mean, the coup never actually did achieve anything apart from shooting on civilians and driving them over with tanks, there are only 1500 arrested people and so on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 06:21:56 am

Latest news: The Greek army reports that a Turkish navy vessel has just been hijacked at Gölçük naval base. The crew has been taken hostage, and the ship is en route to Greek waters.
There's more than 1500 arrested people. Turkish authorities report 2839 military have been arrested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 06:24:36 am

I hope the Greeks will be allowed to sell it to pay off some debt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 06:25:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 06:24:36 am

I hope the Greeks will be allowed to sell it to pay off some debt

<psst, psst, mr Putin. WTB naval vessel with NATO technology?>

Earlier this morning a Turkish army helicopter landed at a Greek base. The crew of 8 people have asked for political asylum. Turkey has asked for their extradition.

Hmm my newspapaer edited the message about the naval vessel. Instead of the crew, they now write that the Turkish commander of fleet has been taken hostage. I wonder what 'commander of fleet' is supposed to mean. They mean the captain of the ship, or the admiral of the Turkish Navy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:05:18 am

Crowds are beheading captured soldiers (pic of dead guy) (http://i.imgur.com/TcZYiGi.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:07:43 am

Erdo just fired 5 members of the supreme board of judges and prosecutors. https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754283343093653504

ISIS is going to love the way things are turning out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:14:15 am

Quote from: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:07:43 am

Erdo just fired 5 members of the supreme board of judges and prosecutors. https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754283343093653504 (https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754283343093653504)

ISIS is going to love the way things are turning out.

5?
Yes, that, plus 2745 judges have been suspended. Looks like Turkey will have no one upholding the law until Erdogan has figured out who he can trust.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:16:54 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:14:15 am

Quote from: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:07:43 am

Erdo just fired 5 members of the supreme board of judges and prosecutors. https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754283343093653504 (https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/754283343093653504)

ISIS is going to love the way things are turning out.

5?
Yes, that, plus 2745 judges have been suspended.

Yes. Enter Islamic Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:19:30 am

More soldiers getting lynched. (https://twitter.com/UlviYaman/status/754266911718772739/video/1) It's now seeming more likely that the rumours that a lot of soldiers didn't know they were staging a coup is true, otherwise it just doesn't make sense why they don't defend themselves, instead looking so confused when approached by a mob about to kill them

Who stages a coup on the day the Prime Minister is out of the country?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:22:31 am

Gulen responded to Erdogan's accusations. The cleric says : As someone who has suffered under multiple military coups, I can say that my main feeling about this is one of insult."
Gulen dissaproves of the coup attempt in strong terms.

The Turkish government accuses Gulen's followers of being responsible for the coup attempt. They say these followers are represented in the media and the offices of the Justice department.

Gulen say that a government should be elected freely, and not under military threat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:24:41 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:19:30 am

More soldiers getting lynched. (https://twitter.com/UlviYaman/status/754266911718772739/video/1)

"A victory for democracy"

(Although, after seeing vids of tanks goring people, I can somewhat understand anyone who just lost a loved one for wanting retribution)

It's probably the biggest mistake of the coup. Opening fire on the civilians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 16, 2016, 07:26:21 am

Maybe after this the military as a whole will follow up with a second coup.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:27:15 am

Erdogan already called upon the people to take to the streets again, and warned about a possible second coup

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 16, 2016, 07:28:27 am

One can dream, can one not?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:38:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 07:24:41 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:19:30 am

More soldiers getting lynched. (https://twitter.com/UlviYaman/status/754266911718772739/video/1)

"A victory for democracy"

(Although, after seeing vids of tanks goring people, I can somewhat understand anyone who just lost a loved one for wanting retribution)

It's probably the biggest mistake of the coup. Opening fire on the civilians.

Nah, biggest mistake was staging it when Erdogan wasn't in the country

For the tank drivers, that they let the civilians get close to them at all strikes me with suspicion, genuinely seems like a hell of a lot of soldiers didn't know what was going on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 07:44:52 am

I've read he was on holiday in Marmaris?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:53:44 am

Its interesting how 18 hours from the start of the coup attempt they(Erdö & CO) have detained more judges than coup-attempting military personnel (2750, 36% of all the judges).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:59:59 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 16, 2016, 07:56:27 am

Quote from: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 07:53:44 am

Its interesting how 18 hours from the start of the coup attempt they(Erdö & CO) have detained more judges than coup-attempting military personnel (2750, 36% of all the judges).

It's because Eddy cares less about the whole being a good leader, more about being a leader and staying as one. He'll be using this as justification for weeks to come.

Yeah, absolutely. I believe, with the evidence so far, that the whole mess was at least partially a false-flag. Could be the first one for me to believe in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 08:18:24 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 07:44:52 am

I've read he was on holiday in Marmaris?

Uh no, he was at (or at least was supposed to be at) an Eurasian summit meeting with other European and Asian heads of state in Mongolia.

Turkish - Egyptian relations are deteriorating further, as Egypt's media reported very positively about the coup attempt, and called it "not a coup, but a revolution within the armed forces"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 09:01:09 am

Erdogan now knows who his friends are
Both within and without

Without-
USA, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel voiced support for Erdogan
Erdogan tried claiming asylum in Germany but Merkel said no
Egypt media saw the coup attempt positively

More refugees to come for Germany

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 16, 2016, 09:03:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 09:01:09 am

Erdogan tried claiming asylum in Germany but Merkel said no

That was fake, his airplane hasn't leaved Turkey's airspace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:11:33 am

http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/erdogan-wil-turkije-koste-wat-kost-arabiseren~a4333917/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/erdogan-wil-turkije-koste-wat-kost-arabiseren~a4333917/)

I took the time to translate this letter a Turkish journalist / ex-military wrote to the newspaper last month.

"While Atatürk de-arabised the Turkish republic with blood, sweat and tears, Erdogan is trying to revert this vigorously.
His intention to grant Turkish citizenship to 3 million Syrian refugees is nothing more than a way to gain more votes for his AK party.

Erdogan is planning to grant citizenship to millions of Syiran refugees. In a speech to Syrian refugees, he promised that actions will be taken to realize that by the appropriate ministry with great urgency.
He made this promise during an iftar in Kilis last weekend.
Because of the influx of refugees, the size of that city has doubled over the past few years.
By giving voting rights to 3 million Syrians, Erdogan is trying to bind new voters to his AK party, and manipulate the next elections in 2019.

Ethnicity, and the place you come from, matter in Turkey, moreso than in the Netherlands.
In the Netherlands, there's no big contrasts between someone from the province of Groningen or the province of Gelderland.
However, in the Ottoman empire, there were dozens of different peoples, and in the Turkish Republic, a lot of that ethnic variety has been preserved.
The odds are high that someone from the north of Turkey is not a Turk, but a Chechen, Laz, or Pontic Greek.
In the East, there's millions of Kurds. In the West, there Thracians, who originate from the Balkan.
In Anatolia, mostly Alevitic Turks have settled.

People from the different regions have only been intermarrying for a short period of time. The preference still goes out to someone from the same village, city, or at most, province.
Your culture, your religious subculture, and your family reflect your conditioning, your political preference, and your religiosity. It's not perfect science, but it proven to be a reasonable indicator throughout the centuries, of what makes a person tick.

Now at first glance Erdogan, who's not a Turk, but a Georgian, with an ethnic arab wife, seems to give the Turkish identity a prominent place in is power politics.
But the truth couldn't be further away.
Islamists like Erdogan are the complete opposite, and are even hostile to original Turks. They conceal this with patriotic rethoric, bombastic historical propaganda, and by attacking western values.
What they really care about though, is islam, or to be more precise, sunni-orthodox islam.
For them, when you have converted to Sunni Islam, you are good people and can be mobilised.

In that case, it doesn't matter if you are a Bulgarian, or a Bosnian. This was already the case in the Ottoman empire, when almost no grand vizier or admiral was a Turk, and all the mothers of Sultans came from Eastern Europe.
The elite army of the Ottomans, the Janissaries, where converted christian boys, who eventually became the notables of the Ottoman Empire.
Thus, the convert slowly took power, and marginalised the original central Asian Turk.

Syrians will remain loyal to the Erdogan-clan, and this will provide a new voter pool for the AK party for generations to come.
When the kids of the Syrian refugees have their own kids, there'll be another 2 million on top of the 3 million already here.
This will definitively change the ethnic composition of Turkey.
Atatürk de-arabised the Turkish Republic with blood, sweat and tears. Erdogan is unfortunatly trying to reverse this, and step by step, abolish the Turkish Republic.

I advise him and his family to make haste with applying for Saudi citizenship for him and his family, because the Turkish people will never accept this."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:19:55 am

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/poorsods_zpssz5goopu.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/poorsods_zpssz5goopu.png.html)

Them poor sods. I feel for them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 09:23:50 am

Journalists complaining about taking millions of refugees to permanently change the ethnic composition to create more voters for the ruling party? Haha, ideas spread well!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 16, 2016, 09:52:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 07:19:30 am

It's now seeming more likely that the rumours that a lot of soldiers didn't know they were staging a coup is true, otherwise it just doesn't make sense why they don't defend themselves, instead looking so confused when approached by a mob about to kill them

Who stages a coup on the day the Prime Minister is out of the country?

They may have believed the citizens of Turkey would support them. Or they were ordered not to shoot civilians to prevent a PR disaster. It reminds me of Garibaldi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:59:21 am

The Turkish prime minister just declared in a speech that those military that tried to seize power yesterday did not try to commit a coup, but instead are terrorists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 16, 2016, 10:12:30 am

So terrorists are unable to commit a coup? Gee, I wonder how the IS have all these territories then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 16, 2016, 10:13:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:59:21 am

The Turkish prime minister just declared in a speech that those military that tried to seize power yesterday did not try to commit a coup, but instead are terrorists.

Gotta get the PR right.

One man's freedom fighter and all that...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on July 16, 2016, 10:48:48 am

Quote from: Cinder on July 16, 2016, 10:12:30 am

So terrorists are unable to commit a coup? Gee, I wonder how the IS have all these territories then.

Military force mostly. Coups are internal after all, while IS started off as part of the Syrian Opposition. If you are part of the government and take over the government, it's a coup or a conspiracy. If you are not part of the government, it's a rebellion/revolution/uprising/civil war/something. In any case, coups only occupy the capital and problem areas, whereas IS is clearly just occupying everything. IS is not a coup by the standard definition; and while coups and civil wars often go together, it only really happens when a coup (successfully or otherwise) leads into a civil war.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 08:18:24 am

Turkish - Egyptian relations are deteriorating further, as Egypt's media reported very positively about the coup attempt, and called it "not a coup, but a revolution within the armed forces"

At least they are consistent. Of course Egypt would support a coup, given how the current government in Egypt came about. At the same time, it makes sense that most of the governments in the middle east would oppose the coup on principle since coups are bad for business. If the coup had succeeded, perhaps we would have heard differently.

My best is that Egypt just jumped the gun on supporting the coup. They should have waited for more news. Now they look very bad indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 11:04:12 am

Greece has agreed to extradite the 8 man that flew in a helicopter and asked for political asylum and promised to deliver them back to Turkey as soon as possible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 11:10:10 am

Will they take 8 syrian refugees in exchange?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 16, 2016, 11:14:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 11:10:10 am

Will they take 8 syrian refugees in exchange?

It's kind of incredible how syrian refugees became something of a currency in international deals in that area of the world. "I'll give you 40 refugees if you do this for me"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 16, 2016, 11:44:56 am

Turkish military was fractured during the attempt and couldn't fight back properly. Erdog now has a big excuse to do all the constitutional changes he was planning, meaning turkey is kind of (even more) fucked now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 16, 2016, 12:29:21 pm

They don't really know how to do PR very well.

"Let's blame a guy who is in self-imposed exile and preaches tolerance and altruism for starting it!"

"Okay, let's say they're terrorists too, that'll get everyone on our side!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 01:03:57 pm

Turkey has asked the USA to either banish or otherwise directly extradite Gulen to Turkey. John Kerry has responded he will seriously consider it, and asked for definitive proof that he is behind the coup. Erdogan says he has given that proof.

"As soon as the US extradite the head of terrorists to us, a lot will change", Erdogan said.

When the crowd demanded Erdogan give the death penalty to the traitors, Erdogan replied "we can discuss that in parliament".

Earlier today, Amnesty International already pleaded with Turkey to not reinstate the death penalty.

I doubt they will though, because that'll disqualify them for EU membership.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on July 16, 2016, 01:23:44 pm

I'd bet money that Gulen had nothing whatsoever to do with this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 16, 2016, 01:41:01 pm

If the US does, I will have lost faith in the current government, not just potential government.

Goddamn. Every time one of these coups or movements towards more dictatorship happens, it erodes my faith in the inevitability of movement towards the better. Just a little each time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Flying Dice on July 16, 2016, 01:43:03 pm

An actual coup by the Turkish military would have been the latter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 01:51:34 pm

The French government is deploying 12000 police reservists to strenghten the nation's police and military forces. That's a 10% increase in manpower, with currently 120.000 officers on police duty.
They have also called upon any and all patriotic French citizen to become a reservist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2016, 01:58:06 pm

So the plan is that once everyone is a policeman, no civilian will get killed anymore?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 02:38:18 pm

Egypt used veto to block a UN Security Council statement drafted by the US, which condemned the coup and urges to respect the democratically chosen government.

Their argument is that the security council is not in a position to determine whether a government has come to power democratically or not.

Inb4 Erdogan invades Egypt

Meanwhile in the US, Gulen again strongly denies to have anything to do with the coup and condemns armed regime changes once more. He urges the Turkish people to "never consider military intervention as something positive".

He does say however that he thinks it's possible that the coup was staged by Erdogan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 16, 2016, 02:49:15 pm

Terrible jokes thread material: Turkey's PM declared war on any country that supports Gulen, which will most likely include USA, if they don't extradite him. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-primeminister-gulen-idUSKCN0ZW0K5?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=578a29f504d3011afd62d6dd&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)

I wonder how would Turkey waging war on USA look like...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 16, 2016, 03:11:26 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 02:38:18 pm

He does say however that he thinks it's possible that the coup was staged by Erdogan

Not terribly unlikely. While there was a fair bit of conflict, it was mostly localized and the military forces backing it seemed very confused about what exactly they were doing, and were rather easily overcome by loyalists. Meanwhile Erdogan was away and safe from the whole conflict from the start. Suddenly the coup's forces break apart in less than a day and a captured general urges the troops to surrender.

In one day, Erdogan's greatest internal enemies have all mostly been arrested and are probably going to die once Erdog walks over the Turkish constitution and installs the death penalty while Erdog points at everyone he dislikes and calls them orchestrators while he paints himself as the people's savior.

Tis a dark time for Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 16, 2016, 03:35:14 pm

The Muslim Brotherhood won it through their brainwashed subjects shouting Allah Akhbar in the streets and squares. the only thing that is of any consolation is that the popular rejection of the coup was so fierce, that the military was so divided and that the coup was so poorly planned out (Staged?), that the blood shed is/will be relatively small considering what a true coup in modern day turkey would look like.

Turkey is going to crack down on any last remaining shades of freedom and democracy left in it. forget the Turkey of past, this is Turkey now: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkish-soldier-beheaded-pro-government-8433319

If the U.S extradite Gulen to Turkey it would be... extremely disappointing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smirk on July 16, 2016, 03:47:32 pm

I rather doubt we will. Here is Kerry's statement about Gülen:

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/16/fethullah-gulen-turkey-coup-erdogan

No official extradition request had been made, according to the US secretary of state, John Kerry, who spoke to reporters in Luxembourg. “We fully anticipate that there will be questions raised about Mr Gülen,” he said.

“And obviously we would invite the government of Turkey, as we always do, to present us with any legitimate evidence that withstands scrutiny. And the United States will accept that and look at it and make judgments about it appropriately.”

Given Kerry's easy-going and bland reputation, I'm inclined to read that as his version of "haha, screw that noise".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 03:59:27 pm

And they call this the victory of democracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 04:27:48 pm

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 16, 2016, 09:52:34 am

They may have believed the citizens of Turkey would support them. Or they were ordered not to shoot civilians to prevent a PR disaster. It reminds me of Garibaldi.

Who tries to get good PR from media controlled by your enemy? That's not how media control works, you don't try to appease a media that hates you

Quote from: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 03:59:27 pm

And they call this the victory of democracy.

Is a democracy allowed to end itself by popular demand? Hell if I know, but it's a question Europe's been asking the past century quite a lot

Quote from: hector13 on July 16, 2016, 12:29:21 pm

They don't really know how to do PR very well.
"Let's blame a guy who is in self-imposed exile and preaches tolerance and altruism for starting it!"
"Okay, let's say they're terrorists too, that'll get everyone on our side!"

Blame a Sufi mystic (see: infidel) known for connections and influence in Turkey (see: good scapegoat, someone far away who doesn't have power to stop accusations), who preaches tolerance and altruism (see: codewords for western ideology), then say they are terrorists (everyone is ok with killing terrorists) and it is a winning recipe - which also sets out that this is NOT a conflict between the popular military and the AKP, and that the popular military stands with the AKP against the infidel conspiratorial tolerant antidemocratic terrorists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 16, 2016, 04:32:06 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 04:27:48 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 16, 2016, 03:59:27 pm

And they call this the victory of democracy.

Is a democracy allowed to end itself by popular demand? Hell if I know, but it's a question Europe's been asking the past century quite a lot

It certainly would be quite democratic.

Sultanate of Rum when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 06:02:36 pm

Greece has come back on their decision to extradite the 8 military who asked for asylum.
Prime minister Tsipras has said that their asylum request will be taken seriously, and handled with respect for human rights and international law.
(I guess they're not too sure now that they get a fair trial and won't be convicted to death, and international law forbids extradition of anyone whose life is in danger, or is in danger of being denied a fair trial).
If a mass murderer would escape from the United States and ask asylum in a European country, we'd not be allowed, by international law, to extradite to the US either, because he can get death penalty. (He'd not be allowed asylum either though. Probably spend the rest of his life in illegal alien detention)

Ofcourse it's also possible that intelligence agencies jumped in and said "just wait a second with extradition, we want to debrief those guys and see if we can get more info on wth really happened in Turkey."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2016, 06:09:25 pm

(Gruesome), Greece is right to consider the safety of the surrendered soldiers (http://i.imgur.com/CghlGOu.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on July 16, 2016, 06:13:05 pm

Posted on one of the other forums from turkey member and what he thinks about all this:

"Rather than staged, it was a desperate attempt by a certain sect in the military which didn't have the support of the core. Back in 2002, when AKP won the elections, they were hand in hand with the Gulen movement.. Both were Islamists and both saw the Kemalist bureaucrats/military as the common enemy. So, AKP happily let Gulenists take over the police force and infiltrate into the judicial system. Gulenists brought on investigation after investigation, convicting almost half the high-ranking officials in the military of -oh, the irony- attempted coups or corruption charges, usually based on fabricated evidence. (Nobody suspected the evidence much back in those days, because the military was indeed anti-AKP and had a long history of real coups.) But in 2013, like all Islamists do since the time of the four caliphs of which three are assassinated, in the end, they couldn't share the power and turned on each other. The Gulen movement started to leak secretly recorded tapes of AKP politicians, which presented bribery, corruption, and other sort of scandalous material. Yet, AKP still won the elections that year despite everything that surfaced and in return, started a man-hunt, removing and arresting anybody in the police force or judicial system that was linked to Gulen. Erdogan started to accuse any political opposition or journalism of working for the Gulen movement which he now called "the parallel state." It is known that a similar house-cleaning was just about to take place in the military and the Gulenist officers were going to be discharged. So, this was their last resort. Hoping the Kemalist core of the military would back them against Erdogan once they start the coup, they went ahead. But of course, the Kemalist officers hate the Gulen movement even more than they hate AKP, since it was Gulen's people who convicted them back in the 2000's. Also, this is not 1980 anymore, there are hundreds of TV stations, the internet, cell phones... So, they couldn't prevent communication and Erdogan's "call of duty" to his conservative Muslims, and once they got that call, they flooded the streets with "Allah-u Akbar" jumping on tanks, blocking the roads etc.

Overall, AKP first snowed the state bureaucracy up by filling it with Gulenists and when they turned on each other, what was completely lost in chaos and greed was the establishment and reputation of this state. This failed attempt will only strengthen Erdogan's hand and I'm afraid "his Islamist crowds" will be much more aggressive from now on.   "

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 08:06:41 pm

The United States is forced to cease using the Turkish airbase of Incirlik after the failed coup attempt.
The US use the base in the southeast of Turkey for carrying out attacks on Syria and Iraq.
This has become impossible, with the Turkish airspace shut down for military planes.

A spokesman of the US ministry of Defense told New York Times that the military is conducting negotiations with the Turks to resume the attacks as soon as possible.
According to the newspaper, losing the base is a big blow to the US military campaign, if only temporary. Jet fighters and drones are stationed and now grounded there, and the base is essential for refueling.
Without the base, aircraft will lose action radius considerably, when they are forced to refuel from aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf.

Military analists are also worried about continued Turkish contribution to the battle against IS.
"They will be focussed on finding and neutralizing those responsible for the coup, and everything else, including the fight against IS, will have low priority", says Eric Edelmann, former US ambassador in Turkey.

THere's also worries that the coup has weakened the Turkish army, making them a less strong partner in the fight against IS.
John Kerry has urged the Turks to continue focussing on fighting IS.

Kerry also expressed frustration at rumours in Turkey, that the US is behind the failed coup. He told the Turkish government that it is harmful for the relation between the two NATO countries.
He offered to cooperate in finding out who is responsible for the coop to the Turkish minister Mevlut Cavosolglu.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/amerikanen-moeten-is-aanvallen-vanaf-turkse-basis-staken~a4341262/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/amerikanen-moeten-is-aanvallen-vanaf-turkse-basis-staken~a4341262/)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/world/europe/turkey-us-incirlik-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region%C2%AEion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/world/europe/turkey-us-incirlik-isis.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region%C2%AEion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1)

The plot thickens. So apparently the US staged the coup now.

In other news, only 20% of Dutch people who booked a holiday to Turkey this week have cancelled, despite being able to get a full refund on cancellation. The other 80% don't think the coup will affect the popular tourist beach cities of Turkey they plan to stay at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on July 16, 2016, 09:05:25 pm

Who actually staged the coup though? As far as I can tell, there are no apparent leaders, self-claimed or otherwise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 16, 2016, 09:13:34 pm

Erdogan? Gulen? Erdogan and Gulen? ISIS? ISIS and Erdogan? Gulen and Trump?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:19:59 pm

The highest ranking officer that has been arrested is General Adam Huduti, commander of the Second Army, which is tasked with guarding the border with Syria, Irak and Iran. The second highest ranking officer arrested is commander Erdül Öztürk.

Not sure how well guarded the border with IS is now, with the 2nd Army having no commander.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 16, 2016, 09:47:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 16, 2016, 09:19:59 pm

The highest ranking officer that has been arrested is General Adam Huduti, commander of the Second Army, which is tasked with guarding the border with Syria, Irak and Iran. The second highest ranking officer arrested is commander Erdül Öztürk.

Not sure how well guarded the border with IS is now, with the 2nd Army having no commander.

His second-in command is probably in charge now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 17, 2016, 01:29:59 am

I wonder if militant Islam is being used as the last bastion of misogyny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 02:58:10 am

It'd be interesting if Erdo DOES have proof that Gulen is somehow behind it. Although I doubt it, even if the couper were Gulenist, such a rash attempt does look a lot more like they acted quickly because they knew they'd get purged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 17, 2016, 03:08:40 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 17, 2016, 01:29:59 am

I wonder if militant Islam is being used as the last bastion of misogyny.

Someone tell the feminists, they keep defending it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 03:10:57 am

The closest thing I've ever seen to feminists defending militant Islam is feminists protesting the various bans on Islamic headscarves and their variation because they feel it isn't up to the state to tell women how to dress.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 04:14:35 am

I think he meant the misogeny

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 17, 2016, 04:36:30 am

Both, really

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 17, 2016, 05:00:20 am

So let's sum up Erdogan's great moves towards a 'safe and stable democracy' in the recent past:

- try to give the president way more power
- imprison more than 2000 people for insulting Erdogan
- shut down pesky news stations reporting independent news
- Make laws to allow criminal charges against members of parliament 
- protect corrupt government officials caught on tape from any form of justice
- Arrest 2750 judges with no proof at all they had anything to do with the coup
- Say they are going to reintroduce the death penalty
- Try to get Gulen extradited even though zero evidence has been presented he even had anything to do with the coup

I actually don't know how to feel about the coup, but Turkey has probably passed the point of no return for turning into a totalitarian dictatorship.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 17, 2016, 05:11:54 am

The best way to have a stable democracy is to remove all the opposition, after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 17, 2016, 05:15:08 am

"democracy"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 06:47:09 am

Well, if he doesn't have proof, Gulen won't be deported. Also, he didn't arrest 2700+ judges: he arrested ~150 and had 2700 fired.

But yeah, at this point it's certainly in the realm of "Managed democracy". I guess it'll need some kind of revolt to undo the damage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 17, 2016, 07:04:27 am

Inb4 military makes an actual coup but this time it's over in 10 hours and they succeed completly without any significant harm done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:09:16 am

Erdogan held a speech in which he promises to continue to "purge this virus which is responsible for the coup from all our nation's institutions". Followers of Gulen will be removed from all institutions and arrested.

Even though there has been no show of proof that he had anything to do with the coup, Erdogan holds Gulen fully responsible.
"He is in charge of a terrorist organistation that ruined Turkish armed forces. But the will of the people has thwarted his coup".

The Turkish government announces they have full control of Turkey again. There's still some groups of military in Istanbul that have not surrendered, but they are not capable of staging another coup, according to the government's spokesperson. There's also still a number of high ranked officers that have not been apprehended yet, but the spokesperson expects this to happen soon.

So far, 6000 people have been arrested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on July 17, 2016, 07:14:18 am

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Deus%20Vult

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:16:38 am

Probably just mostly people googling the term because they wonder what the fuck it means. I saw it being spammed a LOT though at the CNN Turk livestream during the coup

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 17, 2016, 07:17:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:09:16 am

according to the government's spokesperson.

Where are the factcheckers?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:19:13 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 17, 2016, 07:17:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:09:16 am

according to the government's spokesperson.

Where are the factcheckers?

In jail

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Kebab will never be the same again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on July 17, 2016, 07:19:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:16:38 am

Probably just mostly people googling the term because they wonder what the fuck it means. I saw it being spammed a LOT though at the CNN Turk livestream during the coup

Yes, that was 4chan and 8chan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 17, 2016, 07:23:57 am

Am I seeing the same regional interest as you guys? Because if so, I invite you to next crusade starting in Poland 2017, most Christian country in the world.
Deus will Vult soon, my fellow fidels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 07:25:19 am

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

It's not like the Gulenist are Kemalist either... Of course, it does mean Erdogan will increase his control of the country and be able to disaffrenchize the CHP and HDP further (the CHP leader was already fined for insulting Erdogan).

P.S. I wonder what's the October 2007 Deus Vult peak. Also, no searches for Deus lo volt. No respect for history.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:25:25 am

I wonder, once Erdogan is done getting rid of the Gulen followers, if the kemalists are next.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 07:27:07 am

Quote from: Kot on July 17, 2016, 07:23:57 am

Am I seeing the same regional interest as you guys? Because if so, I invite you to next crusade starting in Poland 2017, most Christian country in the world.
Deus will Vult soon, my fellow fidels.

I guess they need to work somewhere once they cannot get a UK visum anymore. Crusading pays as good as anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 07:28:41 am

Depends what you mean by next. Will he start a big purge if he doesn't feel threatened? I'd expect a continuation of the current slow tightening of the screws of power rather than an overt attack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 17, 2016, 07:30:56 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 07:25:19 am

P.S. I wonder what's the October 2007 Deus Vult peak. Also, no searches for Deus lo volt. No respect for history.

My best guess. (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-deus-vult-improvement-pack.325865/)

Spoiler: Happy Erdogan looks cute (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/yb9jojF.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2016, 01:25:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on July 17, 2016, 07:30:56 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 17, 2016, 07:25:19 am

P.S. I wonder what's the October 2007 Deus Vult peak. Also, no searches for Deus lo volt. No respect for history.

My best guess. (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-deus-vult-improvement-pack.325865/)

Spoiler: Happy Erdogan looks cute (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/yb9jojF.jpg)

Ancient Greek tyrant Pesistratos subtly implying Greece should retake Anatolia to harvest enough olives to get out of bankruptcy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2016, 03:48:37 pm

Erdogan said that he "cannot postpone reintroducing the death penalty", and will speak about it with the opposition tomorrow.
Since 1984 no one has been executed in Turkey, and in 2004 the death penalty was officially scrapped from the law, to meet the criteria to be eligeble to join the EU.

I guess it's becoming more and more clear that Erdogan doesn't want to join the EU at all.

"failed coup"
http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/bas-van-der-schot~p3761404/3953438/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 09:48:18 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Islam is strong. Secular Iran and Afghanistan are forgotten, Turkey goes the same route. The funniest stuff will start happen when we'll see desecularization of France and Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 17, 2016, 10:12:28 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 09:48:18 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Islam is strong. Secular Iran and Afghanistan are forgotten, Turkey goes the same route. The funniest stuff will start happen when we'll see desecularization of France and Germany.

That's unlikely to happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 10:15:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 17, 2016, 10:12:28 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 09:48:18 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Islam is strong. Secular Iran and Afghanistan are forgotten, Turkey goes the same route. The funniest stuff will start happen when we'll see desecularization of France and Germany.

That's unlikely to happen.

I can't see why not. There are more and more Muslims and they are ready to act to change Europe to their ideal, the other side is not ready to protect their ideals (no, facebook and twitter tags don't count)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 17, 2016, 10:46:24 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 10:15:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 17, 2016, 10:12:28 pm

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 17, 2016, 09:48:18 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 17, 2016, 07:18:59 am

At this point it seems there may not be much left of Kemal Atatürk's Turkey by the end of the year.

I am very disappointed.  ::)

Islam is strong. Secular Iran and Afghanistan are forgotten, Turkey goes the same route. The funniest stuff will start happen when we'll see desecularization of France and Germany.

That's unlikely to happen.

I can't see why not. There are more and more Muslims and they are ready to act to change Europe to their ideal, the other side is not ready to protect their ideals (no, facebook and twitter tags don't count)

I imagine the political process matters, though. They won't manage it through that, not in a historically non-Muslim country.

While I appreciate ISIS and the like are quite happy to force their views on others vis-a-vis non-secular governments, they are very much in the minority, even moreso in the aforementioned non-Muslim countries..

If you're expecting people to convert en masse to Islam - a very necessary step I would imagine, in the world you foresee - then I would be quite willing to bet money you won't ever see that happen, certainly not to the extremist, mass murder-y, "let's enact religious law" variety.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 17, 2016, 11:55:45 pm

You'd need, what, 40 million people to either immigrate or convert?

I expect there would be race wars by the time 30 million people immigrated, and I don't see half of Germany converting. Or France. Too many people with innate resentment, let alone willingness to convert. Liberals won't because it's fine for other people to do it but it's certainly not feminist. Also because it would mean they couldn't be atheist+. Conservatives won't because those filthy sand people are what's wrong with the country in the first place, or because Jesus says no, or because they'd have to change their whole investment strategy. Or because they're old and don't like change.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 18, 2016, 12:55:38 am

Second coming of Charles Martel when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 18, 2016, 01:14:41 am

Remove scourge of christendom

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:24:07 am

In France, former president Sarkozy, who hopes to become president again next year, said France is in "total war".
He urged to stop calling perpetrators of acts like in Nice "disturbed", or "mentally ill", but instead we should call them by their real name, "enemy".

He pleads for the opening of many deradicalisation centers, says people who have any ties to radical islam should be deported from the country, and anyone showing signs of radicalisation should either be forced to wear an electronic ankle bracelet, or rather be detained preventively (without being accused of a crime).

Furthermore he wants to be able to close down places that preach salafism, and change the freedom of religion part of the constitution so radical imams can be deported.

The French government responded by warning against politicians who claim the attack could have been avoided. "There is no such thing as zero risk", and warned against the "Trumpification of French minds"

http://lci.tf1.fr/politique/attentat-de-nice-sarkozy-et-le-gouvernement-s-echarpent-sur-la-8767027.html
http://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/Manuel-Valls-Nous-allons-gagner-cette-guerre-797599

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 05:11:41 am

At a EU - US summit this morning in Brussels, the EU and US made a joint statement in which they urge Turkey to respect human rights.
John Kerry said that while the US supports Turkey, as a NATO member, the US strongly urges Turkey to respect democratic institutions and the constitutional state, and warned Turkey that they must respect human rights.

The Belgian minister Didier Reynders said that he understands that sanctions against those who participated in the coup are understandable, but that reintroducing the death penalty is unacceptable, and that "we must make clear to Erdogan that he cannot go too far".

 EU Commissionar Johannes Hahn (of Expansion) commented that he thinks it's worrisome that there are this many officials being arrested and fired, this fast. He says that it strongly suggests that the government already had a list of poeple to fire and arrest ready before the coup started.

By now, nearly 10000 officials have been fired, of whom about 7000 police officers.

EDIT: and next to that, 7543 people have been arrested, of whom 6038 soldiers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 18, 2016, 05:16:05 am

Desecularization of Poland soon, my friends. Deus certainly does Vult.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 18, 2016, 05:34:03 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 17, 2016, 10:46:24 pm

If you're expecting people to convert en masse to Islam - a very necessary step I would imagine, in the world you foresee - then I would be quite willing to bet money you won't ever see that happen, certainly not to the extremist, mass murder-y, "let's enact religious law" variety.

I think that you need no majority to push for changes you want. You need to be more active than the other side.

Look at Turkey. Erdogan is not exactly Islamist. In fact he is rather far away from that. But he uses them to get more power and give them more power in exchange. Turkey will not be Saudi Arabia or Sunni version of Iran any time soon but the direction is clear.

Muslims will find allies in European politics. They will get more influence. They will desecularize European countries. Unless something will be done to reduce the power of Islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 18, 2016, 05:36:22 am

I think that's just fearmongering

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 05:42:06 am

Just make an EU law that forbid indoctrinating children (18-) with a belief. Put a 18+ label on churches, mosques, synagogues and other temples like with alcohol and tobacco, and have social workers regularily check school populations for religious indoctrination. Have Child Protective Services place children that are being home-churched into foster care. [/sarcasm]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 18, 2016, 05:43:25 am

Poe's Law!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 05:45:39 am

Quote from: Kot on July 18, 2016, 05:43:25 am

Poe's Law!

I was already adding a /sarcasm tag while you were posting that haha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 18, 2016, 05:49:18 am

Spoiler: how all those officers managed to fail? (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI4jbWIAAylw-.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI-3GXYAAWpmw.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmJI6sWcAE7FXh.jpg)

BTW,  Erdogan is aproaching Stalin's level of army purging here. Can we say goodbye to a strong Turkish armed forces (on other hand... Are forces that can't capture two cities in their own country strong?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 06:08:45 am

Tfw BBC political islam committee is on right now

*EDIT
Ed Husein btfo Yasmin on terrorism and dictatorship
Chinese and North Koreans don't blow themselves up cos they don't have any teachings which say explosive martyrdom = heaven

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on July 18, 2016, 06:22:08 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 18, 2016, 05:49:18 am

Spoiler: how all those officers managed to fail? (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI4jbWIAAylw-.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI-3GXYAAWpmw.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmJI6sWcAE7FXh.jpg)

BTW,  Erdogan is aproaching Stalin's level of army purging here. Can we say goodbye to a strong Turkish armed forces (on other hand... Are forces that can't capture two cities in their own country strong?)

May be the reason is, that they were not that brutal type, which can roll over protesting crowd with tanks?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:31:35 am

EU chief of foreign relations, Frederica Mogherini made it official. She told Turkey that "No counrty can join the EU that reintroduces death penalty."

Kerry, meanwhile, has stated that he has not recieved any formal request to extradite Gulen. Erdogan had asked the US to extradite Gulen, but Kerry says that that does not count as a formal request, and told premier Yilderim that there are official channels for such a request. He added that "Turkey needs to produce evidence, not accusations".

Premier Yildirim has responded, saying that "We are very disappointed that the American government asks for evidence, whilst our democratic government is under attack. At this point, we could even question our friendship".

Exit Turkey from NATO when? US still thinks their nukes are safe on Turkish bases yes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 18, 2016, 06:38:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:31:35 am

EU chief of foreign relations, Frederica Mogherini made it official. She told Turkey that "No counrty can join the EU that reintroduces death penalty."

Kerry, meanwhile, has stated that he has not recieved any formal request to extradite Gulen. Erdogan had asked the US to extradite Gulen, but Kerry says that that does not count as a formal request, and told premier Yilderim that there are official channels for such a request. He added that "Turkey needs to produce evidence, not accusations".

Premier Yildirim has responded, saying that "We are very disappointed that the American government asks for evidence, whilst our democratic government is under attack. At this point, we could even question our friendship".

Exit Turkey from NATO when?

:-X

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 18, 2016, 06:39:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:31:35 am

"We are very disappointed that the American government asks for evidence"

POE'S LAW ARHGHGHHGHGHGHHGHG, AND THIS TIME IN REAL WORLD.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 06:49:28 am

"whilst our government is under attack"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 18, 2016, 06:53:44 am

I wonder how Turkey exiting NATO would work out for their relations with Russia. Are there any ethnic Russians around Bosphorus that would secede from Turkey so they could join Russia?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 18, 2016, 07:02:09 am

The Oppressed Russian Minority exists wherever Putin casts his gaze

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 07:02:42 am

Quote from: DJ on July 18, 2016, 06:53:44 am

I wonder how Turkey exiting NATO would work out for their relations with Russia. Are there any ethnic Russians around Bosphorus that would secede from Turkey so they could join Russia?

50,000 Russians live in Instanbul, Ankara and Malatya

So not really no, unless Putin wants to gib Constantinople to Greece, or give it to Kurds

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 18, 2016, 07:12:01 am

Forget Martel, we need Constantine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 18, 2016, 07:20:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 07:02:42 am

Quote from: DJ on July 18, 2016, 06:53:44 am

I wonder how Turkey exiting NATO would work out for their relations with Russia. Are there any ethnic Russians around Bosphorus that would secede from Turkey so they could join Russia?

50,000 Russians live in Instanbul, Ankara and Malatya

So not really no, unless Putin wants to gib Constantinople to Greece, or give it to Kurds

Who even needs Constantinople? It's full of Erdogan's fanatic supporters, better just avoid it.

Forming Kurdistan from the southern/eastern parts of Turkey + northern Syria & Iraq is a much better affair, since it has de-facto international (i.e. NATO) support.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 18, 2016, 07:21:04 am

Well, Milosevic once famously claimed that any land where any Serb bones are buried is Serbian clay, and Putin seems to have a similar stance, so 50k Russians is plenty. And controlling the gates of the Black Sea would be a huuuge deal for Russia, so I'm confident he'd find a reason to invade Turkey if it lost NATO protection.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 18, 2016, 07:36:27 am

Quote from: DJ on July 18, 2016, 07:21:04 am

Well, Milosevic once famously claimed that any land where any Serb bones are buried is Serbian clay

God is a Serb, my friend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 18, 2016, 07:36:50 am

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on July 18, 2016, 05:49:18 am

Spoiler: how all those officers managed to fail? (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI4jbWIAAylw-.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmI-3GXYAAWpmw.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnmJI6sWcAE7FXh.jpg)

BTW,  Erdogan is aproaching Stalin's level of army purging here. Can we say goodbye to a strong Turkish armed forces (on other hand... Are forces that can't capture two cities in their own country strong?)

It's still only a minority of the army high command.

Coups almost always only succeed if a majority of top military commanders supports it or the opponents are instantly pacified.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 18, 2016, 08:37:58 am

Looks like USA is not amused with Turkey's purging antics (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/kerry-warns-turkey-nato-membership-potentially-at-stake-in-crackdown/2016/07/18/f427ba8a-4850-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html):

Quote

“NATO also has a requirement with respect to democracy,” Kerry told reporters after European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini warned Turkey not to execute coup plotters. She noted that countries with the death penalty cannot join the European Union, as Turkey, a NATO member, has sought to do.

State Department spokesman John Kirby said that while NATO will be watching Turkey carefully, “it’s too soon to say that their membership is at risk.”

Ohoho.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 10:01:04 am

Erdogan should join the EU to gain access to muh clout

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 18, 2016, 10:26:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 10:01:04 am

Erdogan should join the EU to gain access to muh clout

EU says Turkey can't join union if it introduces death penalty (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/18/asia/turkey-attempted-coup/).

/game

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 10:33:27 am

Some background on the Nice attacker. It funny how many of those terrorists are people that weren't really religious until they radicalized. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-signs-truck-attacker-linked-extremist-network-40658686)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 10:47:07 am

Rofl, the French booed a socialist PM who told them to accept terrorist attacks

The enrichment will not be a quiet one it seems

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 10:50:21 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 10:47:07 am

Rofl, the French booed a socialist PM who told them to accept terrorist attacks

The enrichment will not be a quiet one it seems

Well he didn't directly say they need to accept them, he just asked them to be realistic and acknowledge that zero risk of terrorism is unachievable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on July 18, 2016, 10:57:55 am

also, even before you reach the unachievable 0, the cost of reducing terrorism becomes higher than the terrorist attacks themselves.

edt: not to say that the actual state is the optimum. I am sure much can still be done to reduce risk without excessive cost.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 11:01:04 am

The comments I've seen from the booer were mostly people angry that the whole Promenade had been highly securized for the ceremony, while according to them there wasn't a policemen in sight on the 14th. They're mad at Valls showing up and tying down their security.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 11:20:21 am

Angela Merkel took the time to personally make a telephone call to Erdogan and tell him that reintroduction of the death penalty means an immediate end to the procedure for joining the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 18, 2016, 11:27:05 am

I can only imagine how did that talk go and every version I imagine is hilarious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 18, 2016, 11:28:08 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 11:20:21 am

Angela Merkel took the time to personally make a telephone call to Erdogan and tell him that reintroduction of the death penalty means an immediate end to the procedure for joining the EU.

It's actually kinda sad that all the previous moves towards a dictatorship apparently weren't an end to joining the EU......


But seriously who even wants Turkey in the EU on EITHER side?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 11:30:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 10:33:27 am

Some background on the Nice attacker. It funny how many of those terrorists are people that weren't really religious until they radicalized. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-signs-truck-attacker-linked-extremist-network-40658686)

Yes, it is fairly common for people to not be something before they become it :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 18, 2016, 11:32:00 am

Quote from: scriver on July 18, 2016, 11:30:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 10:33:27 am

Some background on the Nice attacker. It funny how many of those terrorists are people that weren't really religious until they radicalized. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-signs-truck-attacker-linked-extremist-network-40658686)

Yes, it is fairly common for people to not be something before they become it :P

MKULTRA :-\ :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 11:39:13 am

Quote from: scriver on July 18, 2016, 11:30:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 10:33:27 am

Some background on the Nice attacker. It funny how many of those terrorists are people that weren't really religious until they radicalized. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-signs-truck-attacker-linked-extremist-network-40658686)

Yes, it is fairly common for people to not be something before they become it :P

You can be religious without being a radical. I mean, the guy was a alcohol-drinking, pork-eating guy that wasn't into religion. The Brussels attackers were avid club-goers. It kind of make sense I guess, if you are already religious, you are less likely to fall for ISIS's version of Islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 18, 2016, 12:02:19 pm

A former Turkish air force commander has confessed to planning last week's attempted military coup. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36829574)

Spoiler: he doesn't look too good though; enhanced interrogation? (click to show/hide)

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1435/production/_90437150_034118655.jpg)

EDIT: Looks like it. (https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/755036829020282880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) Man, Turkey is really going off the deep end, isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 12:36:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 11:39:13 am

Quote from: scriver on July 18, 2016, 11:30:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 10:33:27 am

Some background on the Nice attacker. It funny how many of those terrorists are people that weren't really religious until they radicalized. (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-signs-truck-attacker-linked-extremist-network-40658686)

Yes, it is fairly common for people to not be something before they become it :P

You can be religious without being a radical. I mean, the guy was a alcohol-drinking, pork-eating guy that wasn't into religion. The Brussels attackers were avid club-goers. It kind of make sense I guess, if you are already religious, you are less likely to fall for ISIS's version of Islam.

You can be religious and eat pork and drink alcohol and without going to the mosque as well. This is basically just his uncle pulling a "No True Scotsman" to distance himself and his faith from the terrorist (not that I hold that against him, it's pretty understandable).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 12:46:43 pm

Do we have the same definition of religious?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 12:52:40 pm

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 01:12:05 pm

Is it clearer if I replace "religious" by "devout" in my previous sentence?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 01:18:48 pm

If I am understanding you correctly, the word you are looking for is not "devout" but "dogmatic". Do I understand you correctly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 01:29:29 pm

Nah, I'm fairly certain "devout" is the world I'm looking for.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 01:35:38 pm

"Devout", to me, just means believing in something really much. Which neither following the dogma or not is a tell of.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 01:42:30 pm

Quote

adj. de·vout·er, de·vout·est
1.
a. Devoted to a religion or to the fulfillment of religious obligations: a devout Catholic.
b. Characterized by religious devotion or piety: devout observance of the holy days.

I meant the part about religious obligations. My point is that it seems to me the typical western terrorist seems to be a muslim who wasn't much into religion until being radicalized by contact with takfiri preachers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2016, 01:47:47 pm

And my point is that you aren't something before you become it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:01:26 pm

True, but it's interesting that it seems the already devouts are ... "immunized"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zangi on July 18, 2016, 02:11:11 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:01:26 pm

True, but it's interesting that it seems the already devouts are ... "immunized"?

Not immune, just more resistant. 
You can say that a person who already believes scripture A is less likely to radicalize into a very similar scripture B. 
While someone who knows nothing of both A and B could be radicalized into scripture B because they have no grounding/knowledge from A to tell them that B is very different in whatever ways it is different.

... Something like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 02:14:15 pm

I think pious would be the word you're looking for, not devout.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:18:08 pm

Oh, yeah, that's a good one too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 02:23:03 pm

You can be a devout muslim and still drink alcohol and eat pig. You cannot be a pious muslim when you drink alcohol and eat pig, that is a contradictio in terminis.
(The devout sinner will just repent a lot)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 02:43:15 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 10:50:21 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 10:47:07 am

Rofl, the French booed a socialist PM who told them to accept terrorist attacks

The enrichment will not be a quiet one it seems

Well he didn't directly say they need to accept them, he just asked them to be realistic and acknowledge that zero risk of terrorism is unachievable.

Yep completely unavoidable, nothing to do with any European policies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk5Io19RHGg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:52:05 pm

Yeah, right, if only Jon Oliver hadn't push for refugee to come in and then retroactively occurs in France as non-refugees Tunision ten years earlier...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 02:54:06 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:52:05 pm

Yeah, right, if only Jon Oliver hadn't push for refugee to come in and then retroactively occurs in France as non-refugees Tunision ten years earlier...

Hahaha, you don't get to blame one comedian for what a whole continent wished on itself

Even if JO was never born, yuros still would have wanted cultural enrichment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:56:37 pm

Yeah, why didn't we think of banning and deporting all muslims from Europe.  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:01:16 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 02:56:37 pm

Yeah, why didn't we think of banning and deporting all muslims from Europe.  ::)

Holy shit this is actually how Yuros think

You're either closed door or dismantle the door

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:06:28 pm

Dude, the guy was not a refugee, nor an illegal. He came in legally with a residency permit. Yet, somehow you say that this is linked to recent, refugees policy? You imply immigration policies are to blame, that means you think correct immigration policy would have stopped the Nice attacks. I can't think of one short of "kick out all the muslims" (or maybe just "kick out all muslim male of military age") that would have done so.

I mean, are you just trolling?

In more serious news, the guy apparently sent ~100.000 euros to his family before the attacks, a lot of cash for a delivery driver. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/16/bastille-day-terrorist-was-radicalised-within-months-and-sent-84/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:09:40 pm

Accused former air force general Akin Öztürk did not confess to staging the coup. He denies.
While at first state press agency Anadolu had announced the general had confessed, they have withdrawn that statement and now report he denies, after private media companies Haberturk and NTV contradicted the earlier statement.

According to NTV, the air force general didn't tell his interrogators that he staged the coup, but rather told them that he tried to prevent it. He stated that he is not the person that staged the coup of the 15th july, and that he does not know who did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:11:32 pm

Imply? There is a direct link between Europeans getting killed by immigrants and Europeans supporting uncontrolled migration

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:06:28 pm

You imply immigration policies are to blame, that means you think correct immigration policy would have stopped the Nice attacks. I can't think of one short of "kick out all the muslims" (or maybe just "kick out all muslim male of military age") that would have done so.

Hahaha, you really do think this way
Anyways it is too late, regular terrorism is fun for everyone now

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:09:40 pm

Accused former air force general Akin Öztürk did not confess to staging the coup. He denies.
While at first state press agency Anadolu had announced the general had confessed, they have withdrawn that statement and now report he denies, after private media companies Haberturk and NTV contradicted the earlier statement.

According to NTV, the air force general didn't tell his interrogators that he staged the coup, but rather told them that he tried to prevent it. He stated that he is not the person that staged the coup of the 15th july, and that he does not know who did.

Auto-coup by Erdo?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:13:04 pm

Meanwhile, Erdogan has stated that he will let parliament decide about the death penalty, and will accept any outcome. He added that "the people in the streets want those people killed. Why would I detain them and feed them in prison for years, is what the people in the streets are wondering".

He also told the US to expect a formal extradition request for Gulen within a few days. I guess he's not done fabricating evidence yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:18:43 pm

Turkish minister of foreign affairs Cavusoglu sneered at Angela Merkel for threatening to end EU talks when death penalty returns.
He said "That is unacceptable. Statements like that about a possible lawful decision by a democratically chosen government suggest supporting the coup".

I think I lost track. I'm confused. Who staged the coup? Merkel? Obama? Erdogan? BoJo? Putin? Kim Jung Un?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:19:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:18:43 pm

Turkish minister of foreign affairs Cavusoglu sneered at Angela Merkel for threatening to end EU talks when death penalty returns.
He said "That is unacceptable. Statements like that about a possible lawful decision by a democratically chosen government suggest supporting the coup"

Turkish referendum when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on July 18, 2016, 03:19:57 pm

Turkexit time I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:20:13 pm

So, please tell me, Oh, LW, what immigration policies would have prevented the Nice attack? Sure, refusing to take in refugees would have prevented people like that group arrested in Germany a couple months ago from getting in. But how would that have stopped the Nice attack? What does refugees have to do with this one?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:22:12 pm

Quote from: Criptfeind on July 18, 2016, 03:19:57 pm

Turkexit time I guess.

No Turk EU sounds fine. Turkey out of NATO? I'd think twice and hard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 03:22:39 pm

So how is the coup going, anyway?  Is it going?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:23:12 pm

It's over, failed almost as soon as it started.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 18, 2016, 03:25:30 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 03:22:39 pm

So how is the coup going, anyway?  Is it going?

Yes, Erdogan's attempt to overthrow democracy in Turkey is still going strong.

/terriblejoke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:28:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:20:13 pm

So, please tell me, Oh, LW, what immigration policies would have prevented the Nice attack? Sure, refusing to take in refugees would have prevented people like that group arrested in Germany a couple months ago from getting in. But how would that have stopped the Nice attack? What does refugees have to do with this one?

Step 1: Go back in time
Step 2: Don't support multiculturalism

Alternatively if you still want enrichment, go back in time and deport foreigners who commit crimes, that way he would've been deported when he first started assaulting people. Or when he got arrested for robbery, or domestic violence, or threats e.t.c.

P.s. Lmao you couldn't even deport all Muslims even if you wanted, no take backsies
Also clarify your terminology and shit, refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants e.t.c. don't blanda them all together. The whole asylum seeker thing where you don't even have borders is hilarious but more for your rapes and other massacres

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:34:56 pm

Yeah, I'm trying to keep the terminology separate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:40:25 pm

It gets highly confusing cos statesmen seem to be enacting one policy fits all sorta deals

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:42:28 pm

Well, pretty much everyone. It'd almost be worth it having definitions in the OP :p.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 03:51:35 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:42:28 pm

Well, pretty much everyone. It'd almost be worth it having definitions in the OP :p.

done (I didn't look them up I just wrote them as I thought would be right. Please correct me if I am wrong or incomplete)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 04:18:15 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 03:28:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 03:20:13 pm

So, please tell me, Oh, LW, what immigration policies would have prevented the Nice attack? Sure, refusing to take in refugees would have prevented people like that group arrested in Germany a couple months ago from getting in. But how would that have stopped the Nice attack? What does refugees have to do with this one?

Step 1: Go back in time
Step 2: Don't support multiculturalism

Alternatively if you still want enrichment, go back in time and deport foreigners who commit crimes, that way he would've been deported when he first started assaulting people. Or when he got arrested for robbery, or domestic violence, or threats e.t.c.

P.s. Lmao you couldn't even deport all Muslims even if you wanted, no take backsies
Also clarify your terminology and shit, refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants e.t.c. don't blanda them all together. The whole asylum seeker thing where you don't even have borders is hilarious but more for your rapes and other massacres

Er... all of Europe was obviously a fantastic shiny, crime-free utopia before all the filthy brown people came? Come on man...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 04:41:05 pm

Ugh, apparently 20 injured in an axe attack on a German train?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 04:43:31 pm

Damn. The frequency of attacks in Europe is getting to intifada levels :(

German police reports 3 people are in critical condition, one has been lightly wounded, and 14 people are shocked but unharmed.
The perpetrator has been shot dead while fleeing the scene.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 04:46:37 pm

Could be just more exposure after the last. No one died there, and we have, like, no idea what, who, or why.

Also, I'm seeing report the Nice attacker was bi. Who would have though gay muslims were such a constituency for ISIS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 18, 2016, 04:48:44 pm

Martyrdom is the surest path to absolution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2016, 04:49:49 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 04:46:37 pm

Could be just more exposure after the last. No one died there, and we have, like, no idea what, who, or why.

Also, I'm seeing report the Nice attacker was bi. Who would have though gay muslims were such a constituency for ISIS.

It's not impossible that ISIS just claimed the attacker was one of their own to get publicity and more converts.

...has ISIS ever denied that it performed a certain attack?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 04:51:03 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 04:46:37 pm

Could be just more exposure after the last. No one died there, and we have, like, no idea what, who, or why.

Also, I'm seeing report the Nice attacker was bi. Who would have though gay muslims were such a constituency for ISIS.

For a devout muslim Jihad might feel like the only way to repent their sin of homo- / bisexuality. What I said about devout / pious earlier.
You don't want to know how many gay muslims (or christians for that matter) go completely insane (mostly schizophrenia) because of their conflict between sexuality and devotion to God. And ofcourse the rejection by their kin and community.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 04:54:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 04:18:15 pm

Er... all of Europe was obviously a fantastic shiny, crime-free utopia before all the filthy brown people came? Come on man...

Nice strawman fam
Stopping the entry of and removing immigrant criminals removes immigrant crime, sadly you can't deport criminal yuropoors (well, unless you're a non-EU Yuropean). Even so, imagine a world where yuropoors didn't desire so much enrichening, I'm sure they would find another way to destroy their own civilizations, they have a talent for that

Import jihadis, get jihad

Unless you are a yuropoor who believes that yuropeans are all filthy criminals, so we should add more criminals for toppest bants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 04:55:42 pm

What we really need is a new Australia to deport all criminals to. Perhaps we could expand the Mars One program.

Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, Turkish Gulen followers are recieving death threats from Erdogan supporters. One man's home was broken into, his name carved in the door with a knife, and the message "we know you live here".

A Turkish-Dutch businessman from Amsterdam got a message on his company's facebook page that 'we are going to spill your blood'.

On pro-Erdogan Turkish sites black lists can be found of companies whose owners sympathise with Gulen, with a rally to boycot.
Turkish mosques (in the Netherlands) have been banning Gulen supporters from entering, at least those mosques which fall under the influence of Diyunet, the Turkish ministry of religion.

Of the four hundred thousand Turks living in the Netherlands, there are a few thousand Gulen supporters.

Dutch police are also investigating the molestation of a cameraman for the national news, who was filming the demonstration held by pro Erdogan supporters in Rotterdam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 05:07:44 pm

Oh yeah, then there are Swedes who I find suspiciously aversed to crime and and shit. Swear down, it was kinda spooky how they nearly created a socialist utopia, an authoritarian regime supported from the grassroots level (what). Creating some sort of spooky efficient welfare state where everyone was happy and lived isolated from how ruthless normal people could be. Like that Swedish prison where the guards all left the door open, and instead of the prisoners escaping they just fucking baked a cake. Yeah they would've solved a hell of a lot of their shit if they never hopped on the enrichment wagon, I don't make jokes cos the world makes them for me, like the Swedish music festival asylum rapists striking right after the police handed out "do not grope" wristbands

How do you turn that into a joke

Or how some 11 y/o Syrian called Osama Krayem participating in a Swedish documentary about how to succeed with integration would grow up to be one of the Brussels bombers
Or how the Swedish riot police had no idea how to respond to their Stockholm riots cos the migrants were throwing rocks at them

The memes write themselves

I wonder if we'll have to put Swedes in some sort of reserve cos they're poorly adapted to survival or something

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 04:55:42 pm

What we really need is a new Australia to deport all criminals to. Perhaps we could expand the Mars One program.

Send everyone to Germany?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 05:15:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 05:07:44 pm

like the Swedish music festival asylum rapists striking right after the police handed out "do not grope" wristbands

Would it have been less funny if the rapist had been a blond Swede?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 05:26:48 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2016, 05:15:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 05:07:44 pm

like the Swedish music festival asylum rapists striking right after the police handed out "do not grope" wristbands

Would it have been less funny if the rapist had been a blond Swede?

Rapists, plural

Also we all know Ibrahim Al-Swedi wouldn't do that to infidels, he's too polite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 05:28:46 pm

The axe attacker in Germany has been identified as a 17 year old refugee from Afghanistan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 18, 2016, 05:29:22 pm

I still don't get how a legal immigrant who'd lived in France for decades murdering scores is an argument against immigration policies adopted years after he'd made it in, myself.


But I do partially agree with you on Sweden. A close family friend's lived up north there for years and he mentioned how if you have a criminal  record there it's a really big thing, no matter what for, because it's so uncommon.

Things were less idealistic in the south, due to higher population density, but there is no doubt that crime rates have soared due to huge numbers of unemployed young men from a radically different culture who don't speak the language.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 04:54:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 04:18:15 pm

Er... all of Europe was obviously a fantastic shiny, crime-free utopia before all the filthy brown people came? Come on man...

Nice strawman fam

looks just as good as your's, brah.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 04:54:40 pm

Import jihadis, get jihad

Stopping the entry of and removing immigrant criminals removes immigrant crime, sadly you can't deport criminal yuropoors (well, unless you're a non-EU Yuropean). Even so, imagine a world where yuropoors didn't desire so much enrichening, I'm sure they would find another way to destroy their own civilizations, they have a talent for that

so is yuropoors fault. just replace yuropoors with jihadis; no more people to jihad against. or jihad is now exported back where it came from. problem solve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 06:37:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

looks just as good as your's, brah.

I can't strawman myself, checkmate atheists

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

so is yuropoors fault.

Yes

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

just replace yuropoors with jihadis; no more people to jihad against.

When everyone is migrant, no one can be racist

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

or jihad is now exported back where it came from. problem solve.

German jihad is top competitive export industry, Germany needs young islamist to plug in gaps caused by aging jihadi/suicidal population

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:40:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 06:37:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:33:09 pm

or jihad is now exported back where it came from. problem solve.

German jihad is top competitive export industry, Germany needs young islamist to plug in gaps caused by aging jihadi/suicidal population

ykfibtm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:45:51 pm

what does that mean? Google comes up empty

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 06:46:10 pm

EMPTY?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:47:38 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 06:46:10 pm

EMPTY?

ykfibtm gives 3 search results. two for US license plates, one in Russian, looks like serial numbers on a condensator market site.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 18, 2016, 06:48:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:47:38 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 06:46:10 pm

EMPTY?

ykfibtm gives 3 search results. two for US license plates, one in Russian

Sleeper agents have been revealed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 18, 2016, 06:49:21 pm

What does it even mean, though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2016, 06:50:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 06:45:51 pm

what does that mean? Google comes up empty

Your kung-fu is better than mine.

The image of jihad being treated like a normal thing needing to have new blood injected in was just too much.

I must go to the mountains and learn to shitpost better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 18, 2016, 07:46:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 05:28:46 pm

The axe attacker in Germany has been identified as a 17 year old refugee from Afghanistan.

If that was an attempt to distract the media away from the RNC, that's lame. Not that it makes it okay of course...

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2016, 04:55:42 pm

What we really need is a new Australia to deport all criminals to. Perhaps we could expand the Mars One program.

Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, Turkish Gulen followers are recieving death threats from Erdogan supporters. One man's home was broken into, his name carved in the door with a knife, and the message "we know you live here".

A Turkish-Dutch businessman from Amsterdam got a message on his company's facebook page that 'we are going to spill your blood'.

On pro-Erdogan Turkish sites black lists can be found of companies whose owners sympathise with Gulen, with a rally to boycot.
Turkish mosques (in the Netherlands) have been banning Gulen supporters from entering, at least those mosques which fall under the influence of Diyunet, the Turkish ministry of religion.

Of the four hundred thousand Turks living in the Netherlands, there are a few thousand Gulen supporters.

Dutch police are also investigating the molestation of a cameraman for the national news, who was filming the demonstration held by pro Erdogan supporters in Rotterdam.

Yeesh, Turkish Civil War when. /sarcasm And they say the US appears divided.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 18, 2016, 09:44:01 pm

You know, just wondering out of random curiosity, in Europe, is there such a thing as British Exceptionalism?, French Exceptionalism? German Exceptionalism? <insert name of nation that is not America> Exceptionalism?

Although, isn't German Exceptionalism what got us WWII?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 18, 2016, 10:01:17 pm

It's mostly just British Opt-Out-ism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 18, 2016, 11:37:42 pm

If the opposing party is patriotic, how can you possibly be patriotic and still call yourself progressive? I mean, it's just common sense. Love of country=racism.

And vice versa, obviously. Criticism of your country means you hate it, and are obviously a traitorous Fascist commie Hippie Islamist spy, sent to destroy the very bedrock of our society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 01:03:41 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 18, 2016, 05:29:22 pm

But I do partially agree with you on Sweden. A close family friend's lived up north there for years and he mentioned how if you have a criminal  record there it's a really big thing, no matter what for, because it's so uncommon.

Things were less idealistic in the south, due to higher population density, but there is no doubt that crime rates have soared due to huge numbers of unemployed young men from a radically different culture who don't speak the language.

Have the crime rate soared though? Sure, you see a lot of right-wing websites with claim stuff like "Rape Rose 1400 % over the last 40 years" (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape), blaming the increase on immigrants, but they're either being liar or stupid, as they're purposefully letting out that both the definition and the reporting of rape change dramatically over the last 40 years (Domestic rape, having sex with someone unconscious (but not disagreeing), many things like what Assange did weren't rape in 1975. Sweden also records rape differently: someone raped by his or her partner dozens of time over a relationship would be counted as one crime in many country's statistics, but each count would be counted separately in Sweden).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 01:15:36 am

Comparing rape and assault statistics between countries is usually a waste of time I think, because they're defined differently everywhere and it's hard to get a solid picture of things.

In NZ, for instance, the reported rape rate is lower than elsewhere, because women can't be charged with it. That goes over to indecent assault, which also includes stuff like groping or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 19, 2016, 01:16:15 am

I guess it's true, but it still comes down to the participation rate of Immigrants/Refugees in sex crimes proprtional to their share of the population. Non-european Immigrants that is, since Sweden has a tendency to mask it's immigrants social problems behind their multitues of Swede speaking fins that immigrated in the past.

I have no idea whats the Immigrants/Refugees participation rate number is, but i'm sure it's an easily obtainable data...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 01:19:29 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 19, 2016, 01:16:15 am

I have no idea whats the Immigrants/Refugees participation rate number is, but i'm sure it's an easily obtainable data...

Pretty low or extremely high, depending on who you ask. It's a pain in the arse to get race-related data on crime pretty much everywhere because "encouraging racism" is apparently a capital offence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 01:21:49 am

Quote from: Vilanat on July 19, 2016, 01:16:15 am

I guess it's true, but it still comes down to the participation rate of Immigrants/Refugees in sex crimes proprtional to their share of the population. Non-european Immigrants that is, since Sweden has a tendency to mask it's immigrants social problems behind their multitues of Swede speaking fins that immigrated in the past.

I have no idea whats the Immigrants/Refugees participation rate number is, but i'm sure it's an easily obtainable data...

Probably not actually, since most European countries don't track ethnicity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 19, 2016, 01:28:03 am

Don't they track origin country, which is just as good?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 19, 2016, 01:54:10 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 01:15:36 am

In NZ, for instance, the reported rape rate is lower than elsewhere, because women can't be charged with it.

What, not even statutory?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 01:56:07 am

Quote from: DJ on July 19, 2016, 01:54:10 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 01:15:36 am

In NZ, for instance, the reported rape rate is lower than elsewhere, because women can't be charged with it.

What, not even statutory?

Indecent assault on a minor IIRC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on July 19, 2016, 03:05:40 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 18, 2016, 09:44:01 pm

You know, just wondering out of random curiosity, in Europe, is there such a thing as British Exceptionalism?, French Exceptionalism? German Exceptionalism? <insert name of nation that is not America> Exceptionalism?

Spoiler: Yuo so silly (click to show/hide)

WINGED HUSSARS! POLAND STRONG WORLD WE WAR YOU! CONQUERING KREMLIN AND BERLIN! CENTER OF EUROPE! CHRISTOPER COLUMBUS WAS POLISH! 123 YEARS OF SLAVERY BUT WE CAME ON TOP! EVERYONE HATES US BUT WE'RE STILL BETTER! WILNO AND LWÓW RIGHTFUL POLISH CLAY! POLISH SARMATIAN NOBILITY! HERMASZEWSKI WE CAN INTO SPACE! DEFENDING EUROPE AGAINST MUSLIM HORDES! WINGED HUSSARS! FOR FREEDOM OURS AND YOURS! BETRAYAL IN THE WEST! IF WORLD LISTENED TO US WW2 WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED! ELECTIONS BEFORE IT WAS POPULAR! WINGED HUSSARS! HELIOCENTRIC THEORY! CEDYNIA! GRUNWALD! VARNA! KIRCHOLM! VIENNA! SOMOSSIERA! WESTERPLATTE! MONTE CASSINO! WINGED HUSSARS! KURWA!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 04:16:40 am

When searching his foster parent's home, police have found an IS flag in the 17 year old Afghan's room.. Is has also claimed the attack.

Two of the axe victims are still in critical condition. All victims were from the same family, a Chinese family from Hongkong. According to the South China Morning Post, a father, mother, daughter and a friend of the family were injured, their 17 year old son remained unharmed.

I guess any foster parent sheltering a refugee child should start searching their rooms on a regular basis, and look for IS flags and axes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 05:45:16 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 18, 2016, 10:01:17 pm

It's mostly just British Fuck-this-shit-I'm-out-ism

Ftfy
See also:
British Fuck-I-never-signed-up-for-this-ism

Also French Ameriphobia, German Germaphobia, Danes reluctant yuropoor and Visegrad International Socialists

Quote from: Covenant on July 18, 2016, 10:03:11 pm

Reading up on the term seems to basically paint it as 'Americans think they/their country is better than the rest of the world'.

Pretty much
USA USA USA FREEDOM AINT FREE FREEDOM AINT FREE

Hard to rain on their parade cos they know they're #1

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 01:21:49 am

Probably not actually, since most European countries don't track ethnicity.

Sweden stopped when they stopped liking the stats they tracked
Same as with migration lel
Not sure about Belgium, but who cares

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 04:16:40 am

When searching his foster parent's home, police have found an IS flag in the 17 year old Afghan's room.. Is has also claimed the attack.
Two of the axe victims are still in critical condition. All victims were from the same family, a Chinese family from Hongkong. According to the South China Morning Post, a father, mother, daughter and a friend of the family were injured, their 17 year old son remained unharmed.
I guess any foster parent sheltering a refugee child should start searching their rooms on a regular basis, and look for IS flags and axes.

Tfw you shelter refugees and get axed cos of yuropoors
Poor Hong Kongers, they are the best

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 01:03:41 am

Have the crime rate soared though? Sure, you see a lot of right-wing websites with claim stuff like "Rape Rose 1400 % over the last 40 years" (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape), blaming the increase on immigrants, but they're either being liar or stupid, as they're purposefully letting out that both the definition and the reporting of rape change dramatically over the last 40 years (Domestic rape, having sex with someone unconscious (but not disagreeing), many things like what Assange did weren't rape in 1975. Sweden also records rape differently: someone raped by his or her partner dozens of time over a relationship would be counted as one crime in many country's statistics, but each count would be counted separately in Sweden).

Well Sheb now you're just being deliberately deluded and straight up ignoring facts. Only people who have deliberately been lying and been stupid are Yuropoors who can't handle consequences for enrichment, and caught between women being raped by migrants, can't decide which protected group to ignore, so ignore both.
Swedish authorities' propensity for covering up migrant rape only rivals UK Labour. (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/) Bathhouses shut down cos not even 12 year olds were safe, Swedish security guards couldn't even deal with it because they lived in some bizarro peace world. (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2002-11-08/vakter-haller-koll-i-aq-va-kul) You know it's fucked when the only way you can force your own authorities to not coverup enriching crime is if you expose them unwillingly. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/world/europe/swedish-police-coverup-sexual-assault.html?_r=0) You guys have what happened to the UK on crack cocaine

Quite typical really, the conversation was much the same with the refugees 2014-2015, when we started finding ISIS fighters in Calais and Macedonia, when they started declaring their intent to go home and establish a homefront to begin training another generation in what they learned in Syria. Government advisors said it, a gun runner said it, we had fighters caught on the borders and the Swedes and Danes were even bringing them home on purpose and in Europe megathread, people said that was stupid, lies and propaganda - and now Yuros got tortured to death because of that, and are being told by their politicians to learn to live with that rofl

It's almost like no one saw it coming

*EDIT
Also have the 2014 coverup for this cheeky snippet from Swedish diversity police

Quote

“These are so-called refugee youths, specifically from Afghanistan. Several of the gang were arrested for sexual molestation,” one police memo said. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival)

So-called refugee youths, so-called Islamic state, same language used by the police lol

Quote

The prime minister, Stefan Löfven, said this amounted to a double betrayal since no one was prosecuted for the crimes and the police did not make them public.

Yeah Swedish rape stats are actually lower than they should be due to the coverups. Let that sink in

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 05:51:57 am

While you mention Calais.. Has deconstruction of the Canal tunnel started yet or is it still construction worker's holiday season?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 05:55:28 am

Three people, including a shooter were shot and killed near a spa in Lincolnshire.
Police say there's no indication that it has anything to do with terrorism. They also say that the police didn't fire any shots, so looks like it was just a shootout between criminals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 06:03:03 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 05:51:57 am

While you mention Calais.. Has deconstruction of the Canal tunnel started yet or is it still construction worker's holiday season?

No, we're keeping the tunnel so we can send beefeaters through to establish a beachfront. Londonistan will then become the so-called Calaisphate and sweep across Europe with infinitely folded scimitar cut through all German steel

Also Beeb got in on the Afghan refugee who went full Johnny (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/uMSuAAr.png)

You can see in the reflection the photographer, I wonder how they are feeling?

Quote

The South China Morning Post said it was believed four of the people injured were a 62-year-old man, his 58-year-old wife, their daughter, 27, and her boyfriend, 31, from Hong Kong. The 17-year-old son travelling with them was not hurt, it said.
A source told the paper the father and boyfriend had tried to protect the other members of the group.

Fucking based legends

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 06:04:20 am

Do you have source on Sweden stopping to track ethnicity? When did that happened? In Belgium I'm fairly certain it's been that way pretty much forever. It's even illegal for the government to  keep numbers of french- and dutch-speakers.

Also, do you deny that the definiton of rape in Sweden changed (in 1992 and 2005 at least) ? When you compare rates in 1975 to rates in 2015 like the rag I linked, you're comparing apples and oranges. Comparing them in the way many right-wing "news sites" do is either stupid or dishonest. What facts am I ignoring?

Do migrants, asylum-seekers or not rape and grope people? Yeah. Do they do it at a rate higher or lower than natives, and by how much? I have no idea. I mean, I'd love to have good data, because I think it's retarded to pretend a problem doesn't exist. But that data I've not seen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 06:06:36 am

LOL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 06:08:40 am

Oh, BTW, wasn't there something about that festival where it turned out only 2 of the 7 arrested were in fact unoccompanied Afghan minors?

P.S. Apparently a 20-years old Afghan refugees was stabbed in Belgium as he was cycling back to his housing center. His life is not in danger anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 06:10:51 am

I find it slightly odd that the guy attacked people who aren't even of Western civilization. Then again, their willing to kill hundreds just to get those one or two Americans and they kill muslims far more than non-muslims, so, it really isn't a surprise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 06:11:52 am

In the Netherlands we stopped tracking ethnicity and religion at the public registry in 1945, seeing how it had enabled Hitler to deport and kill 90% of Dutch jews and gypsies. While in absolute numbers, the death toll of jews and gypsies was not the highest in the Nethelands (small country, small population after all), percentage wise, we had the most jews and gypsies exterminated of all countries, thanks to our excellent public registry and bureaucracy (with special thanks to Napoleon's brother, Louis Bonaparte, who instated the registry as King of Holland). Note that a lot of Dutch jews weren't religiously so (humanist agnost rather), so without the ethnic registry, they would have never been on Hitler's radar, because well, they looked and behaved like any dutch people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 06:15:25 am

Hilariously, it's we Beglian who had the great idea to add "Tutsi" and "Hutu" to Rwandese ID cards after we took over the colony from the Germans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 06:37:10 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 06:15:25 am

Hilariously, it's we Beglian who had the great idea to add "Tutsi" and "Hutu" to Rwandese ID cards after we took over the colony from the Germans.

Reminds me if this old dutch terrible joke. "Waarom hebben Hutu's geen mobiele telefoon? Er zitten teveel Tutsi's op."
(Why don't Hutu's have a mobile phone? It has too many keys (tutsi's))

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Mech#4 on July 19, 2016, 06:47:07 am

@ Load Whispers: Please if you are posting images, either mention that they are violent/bloody or provide a link. I'm not a moderator but this forum does have a wide userbase and we should keep things generally presentable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 06:51:51 am

LW usually does do that. So I'd phrase it like "psssst LW you forgot the graphic tag"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 19, 2016, 07:05:55 am

Sweden's removal of ethnicity and religious listings also goes back to the persecution of Jews, Roma, and Sami. Hence why some years ago there was much rabalder when it was revealed that the Skåne police department had mapped and databased Roma of the region regardless of their involvement in crime investigations.

This is the Swedish police's rapport from this May, aiming to give an overview of sexual crime and harrassment (https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%C3%96vriga%20rapporter/Lagesbild%20over%20sexuella%20ofredanden.pdf). It's in Swedish, of course, and discusses sex crimes by type, location, and if committed by single person or in group. It shows among other things that:

1. Sexual crimes (of all kinds) have increased.
2. The largest group of crime is harrassment over Internet (no homogeneous perpetrator group could be established).
3. The largest group of crimes taking place in the physical space is a singular perpetrator groping, exposing themselves, or showing indecent pictures to young women (no homogenous perpetrator group could be established).
4. In crimes committed by groups, however, statistics show that the vast amount of crimes in committed by men without Swedish citizenship or with foreign background.

The most one-sided group is crimes committed in bath houses (or related establishments), where 80% of the perpetrators were without Swedish citizenship and/or seeking asylum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 07:21:58 am

A 37 year old Moroccan French guy just stabbed a mother and her 3 daughters of 8, 12 and 14 because they "were indecently clothed", at a holiday park in the south east of France.
The four have been heavily wounded and are in hospital, with the youngest girl in critical condition.
The perpetrator has been captured an arrested while trying to flee the scene.

http://www.itele.fr/france/video/hautes-alpes-pronostic-vital-engage-pour-une-mere-et-sa-fille-apres-une-agression-a-larme-blanche-169232 (http://www.itele.fr/france/video/hautes-alpes-pronostic-vital-engage-pour-une-mere-et-sa-fille-apres-une-agression-a-larme-blanche-169232)

according to the artice (if my understanding of ze french is correct), is that the perpetrator commented on the mother's and daughter's clothing then followed them to their bungalow and attacked the mother and her daughters inside. Apparently he knew them, and stays in the bungalow nextdoors with his wife.
The assailant is known to the police for recurring criminal activity for over 10 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 07:33:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 07:21:58 am

A 37 year old Moroccan French guy just stabbed a mother and her 3 daughters of 8, 12 and 14 because they "were indecently clothed", at a holiday park in the south east of France.
The four have been heavily wounded and are in hospital, with the youngest girl in critical condition.
The perpetrator has been captured an arrested while trying to flee the scene.

*sigh*, if they don't like the way Western culture does ____, then why do they immigrate? I mean, sure, most muslims aren't violent like that, but still.....

I mean like, to put it another way, I'm sure there are bits of East/SouthEast Asian culture (even though they've been fairly Westernized) that Westerners might not like, but you don't usually hear about Westerners going on a rage just because they think _____ is stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 07:38:24 am

Quote from: Mech#4 on July 19, 2016, 06:47:07 am

@ Load Whispers: Please if you are posting images, either mention that they are violent/bloody or provide a link. I'm not a moderator but this forum does have a wide userbase and we should keep things generally presentable.

Ey? Weren't any dead people there, just bloodstains and the cleanup kit
Anyways, will do in future for bloodstains, after Turkey coup ones, all them tags been reserved for things that are violent/bloody

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 07:21:58 am

A 37 year old Moroccan French guy just stabbed a mother and her 3 daughters of 8, 12 and 14 because they "were indecently clothed", at a holiday park in the south east of France.
The four have been heavily wounded and are in hospital, with the youngest girl in critical condition.
The perpetrator has been captured an arrested while trying to flee the scene.

http://www.itele.fr/france/video/hautes-alpes-pronostic-vital-engage-pour-une-mere-et-sa-fille-apres-une-agression-a-larme-blanche-169232 (http://www.itele.fr/france/video/hautes-alpes-pronostic-vital-engage-pour-une-mere-et-sa-fille-apres-une-agression-a-larme-blanche-169232)

according to the artice (if my understanding of ze french is correct), is that the perpetrator commented on the mother's and daughter's clothing then followed them to their bungalow and attacked the mother and her daughters inside. Apparently he knew them, and stays in the bungalow nextdoors with his wife.
The assailant is known to the police for recurring criminal activity for over 10 years.

Tfw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRFr9G6zg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 07:40:53 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2016, 07:36:52 am

Thing is they don't think it's stupid, they actually see it as an affront to their beliefs. And the problem with beliefs of any kind is people can REALLY get carried away with them.

This. My newspaper now reports that he was on vacation there with his wife and kids.

I'll tell you how this guy thinks. He thinks "Oh my Lord, Shaitan is trying to corrupt my family with the infidel's sodomy, I must protect them insh'allah".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 07:41:17 am

Western culture isn't seen as some stupid foreign thing by these people, its seen as an active threat to themselves and everything they believe, and many see destroying it as part of their life goal and duty to god, and bloody murder is seen as a great way to go about solving this.

This isn't saying that every muslim is a murder waiting to happen, but the idea of western culture being a thing to be destroyed is an idea that is supported by more than a few Iman, to the point that its essentialy part of their doctrine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 07:46:21 am

Yeah, although it's not clear where the information that it had anything to do with the clothing worn by the women comes from. To quote the French article you linked "According to information collected by iTELE, the cause of the attack is not clear, but might be linked to the clothes worn by the mother and her daughters." They don't say who gave them that information.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:05:06 am

No funeral services to be provided for pro-coup figures killed during coup attempt,Turkey's religious authority says (https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/755372830313897984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw).

All political prisoners in Turkey are now denied the right to meet lawyers, family, & make phone calls (https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/755317261267767296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw).

Erdogan appears to no longer give a single fuck about looking democratic. Amazing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:08:04 am

Lol what would happen if the UN sends independent observers, and Turkey calls that an invasion and invokes article 5. Would the NATO have to attack the UN forces?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:10:22 am

I think NATO would tell Erdogan to "fuck off" in that particular case. Article 5 doesn't specify the exact magnitude of expected response, anyway, so there's that technical cop-out possible, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:13:19 am

Not too long after gemany's authorities firmly denied that the 17 year old afghan attacker had had any contact with IS, but rather was self-radicalized, IS media agency Amaq placed a video made by him online, in which he swears allegiance to IS, calls others to follow his example, and show a knife with which he is going to kill infidels. I wonder how they got that, when he 'never had contact with IS'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:25:49 am

Turkey's state media says ministry of education sacks 15,200 for alleged ties to group govt blames for failed coup. (https://twitter.com/AP/status/755401382727999488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

some Stalin-level shit going on there

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:31:16 am

Next, he'll invade Georgia to add his fatherland the the Great Erdogannoman Empire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:34:05 am

Quote from: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:25:49 am

Turkey's state media says ministry of education sacks 15,200 for alleged ties to group govt blames for failed coup. (https://twitter.com/AP/status/755401382727999488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

some Stalin-level shit going on there

Sacking over 15,000 teachers and professors?

When he said he was going to clean house, he meant it literally I suppose.

Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2016, 09:28:34 am

It's like Stalin is heading Nazi Germany (an apt example, given his previous 'Come on, I just want to be like Hitler!'). Rather than communism, it's going towards good old fashioned fascism, but with Stalin's purging.

At least he isn't marching them to Gulags (or the Turkish versions) and shooting them all. And did Erdogan seriously say 'come on, I want to be like Hitler!'?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:36:12 am

No, he just said that Hitler's Germany was an example of a succesful popular democracy like the one he envisions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:39:45 am

Pfft, Erdogan is absolutely clueless about history if he thinks it's okay to emulate Hitler.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:42:08 am

Oh he's shown great historical awareness before, when he commented that Germany should start making amends for their genocide, before having the right to say anything in the Armenian issue debate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:43:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:34:05 am

At least he isn't marching them to Gulags (or the Turkish versions) and shooting them all.

For now. I think the fact that he ordered to deny all of the politically prosecuted people lawyers, combined with him wanting to reinstate death penalty, means that he certainly wants to do that very, very much.

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:39:45 am

Pfft, Erdogan is absolutely clueless about history if he thinks it's okay to emulate Hitler.

Turkey is a bit harder to invade and occupy than Germany, though. It has got a lot of natural obstacles on any possible invasion routes, like seas and mountains, plus more than half of population is indoctrinated into fanatical worship of Erdogan and are ready to sacrifice their lives at a single call of their Dear Leader President.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:47:08 am

That, and the Turkish Army, even after coup cleansings, is still the largest standing army in the region, partially trained by the US, and well equipped.

I'm rather curious what the PKK have been doing the past days though. Surely the coup must have distracted the army's attention away from them. Next coup, kemalist-PKK alliance?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:51:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:47:08 am

That, and the Turkish Army, even after coup cleansings, is still the largest standing army in the region, partially trained by the US, and well equipped.

Yeah, it's kind of like Iraq in 1991, if Iraq's army was actually competent. Which is kind of scary, given than now all that power is falling into the hands of a power-mad dictator.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:56:42 am

Quote from: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:43:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:39:45 am

Pfft, Erdogan is absolutely clueless about history if he thinks it's okay to emulate Hitler.

Turkey is a bit harder to invade and occupy than Germany, though. It has got a lot of natural obstacles on any possible invasion routes, like seas and mountains,

True, at least any reasonable invasion routes anyhow. Plus theres not-exactly-friendly-to-Westerners territory to the south that would object to being used as an invasion platform.

Quote from: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:43:46 am

plus more than half of population is indoctrinated into fanatical worship of Erdogan and are ready to sacrifice their lives at a single call of their Dear Leader President.

So was Germany under Hitler. Well, I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure a lot of people were.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:47:08 am

That, and the Turkish Army, even after coup cleansings, is still the largest standing army in the region, partially trained by the US, and well equipped.

True, and the US has supplied some of the equipment as well. I suppose as long as he doesn't try to attack Greece or annex anybody, he'll be safe.

Quote from: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:51:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:47:08 am

That, and the Turkish Army, even after coup cleansings, is still the largest standing army in the region, partially trained by the US, and well equipped.

Yeah, it's kind of like Iraq in 1991, if Iraq's army was actually competent. Which is kind of scary, given than now all that power is falling into the hands of a power-mad dictator.

He hasn't shown any interest in expanding his territory AFAIK though. I do know theres the Cyprus issue and whatever disputes they have with Greece.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 10:02:29 am

Still, I can kinda imagine the US miltary high command holding emergency meetings for days now on how to get their nukes back to US soil asap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 10:15:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 10:02:29 am

Still, I can kinda imagine the US miltary high command holding emergency meetings for days now on how to get their nukes back to US soil asap.

They should be able to just fly them out, though they'd have to make sure other countries don't get spooked by accident. Actually, they probably wouldn't let people know about it until after it had already happened, preferrably under the cover of night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing#NATO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb (the type stored in Turkey)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 10:41:55 am

Meanwhile, the wikileaks site was attacked and shut down, after announcing they were going to publish 300000 internal emails, and 500000 documents with information about Erdogan's AK party.
Wikileaks has commented on Twitter that they cannot say for sure who is behind the attack, but considering the timing, it seems likely the Turkish government is involved. They promise to publish the emails and documents as soon as they can. They say the documents do not contain information about the coup, but rather give a clear image of the power structures within Erdogan's AK party.

By now, the wikileaks site is accessible again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 10:48:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:42:08 am

Oh he's shown great historical awareness before, when he commented that Germany should start making amends for their genocide, before having the right to say anything in the Armenian issue debate.

Hey... wasn't it national shame over the whole "Murdering Literally Millions" incident that led to the sociopolitical atmosphere responsible for the "All migrants are welcome" crisis?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

Not really. Especially since "All Syrian Refugees are welcome" != "All migrants are welcome" (didn't we have an argument about that a page ago?).

Apparently 30 out of the 84 victims of Nice were Muslism, as reporte by France's catholic newspaper La Croix. So, uh, good job to the terrorrist for fighting against the Islamization of France?
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 10:51:59 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 10:48:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:42:08 am

Oh he's shown great historical awareness before, when he commented that Germany should start making amends for their genocide, before having the right to say anything in the Armenian issue debate.

Hey... wasn't it national shame over the whole "Murdering Literally Millions" incident that led to the sociopolitical atmosphere responsible for the "All migrants are welcome" crisis?

That most certainly played a part. WW2 guilt is still very much alive in the subconsciousness of German society, up to the current generation, or at least generation X.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 11:02:59 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

Not really. Especially since "All Syrian Refugees are welcome" != "All migrants are welcome" (didn't we have an argument about that a page ago?).

Yeah, one policy fits all
Read the banners your people put up, all of them said Refugees welcome, not Syrian refugees welcome
From the farthest corners of the Congo to Pakistan you guys didn't really give a shit, and your open border policy applied to everyone seeking asylum not refugees. No processing at your border, no security checks, just allow everyone in in such great quantity that it honestly didn't matter what you wanted to happen cos there would be no controlling anything, then bitch at the rest of Europe for not taking your invited guests lol
Visegrad slavs are still salty youropoors tried fining them into taking their migrants

Despotic bureaucracy: Not even once

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

Apparently 30 out of the 84 victims of Nice were Muslism, as reporte by France's catholic newspaper La Croix. So, uh, good job to the terrorrist for fighting against the Islamization of France?

54 > 30

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 10:48:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 09:42:08 am

Oh he's shown great historical awareness before, when he commented that Germany should start making amends for their genocide, before having the right to say anything in the Armenian issue debate.

Hey... wasn't it national shame over the whole "Murdering Literally Millions" incident that led to the sociopolitical atmosphere responsible for the "All migrants are welcome" crisis?

Not to mention they want to spread their shame even to countries that fought to the death against Nazis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 19, 2016, 11:05:47 am

Quote from: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 09:43:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 09:34:05 am

At least he isn't marching them to Gulags (or the Turkish versions) and shooting them all.

For now. I think the fact that he ordered to deny all of the politically prosecuted people lawyers, combined with him wanting to reinstate death penalty, means that he certainly wants to do that very, very much.

Recall that earlier he stated "why shouldn't we reinstate the death penalty when the population want the perpetrators executed?"
Sounds rather like he wants everyone who's been detained killed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 11:08:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 11:02:59 am

Read the banners your people put up, all of them said Refugees welcome, not Syrian refugees welcome

He was referring policy, not slogan though.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

54 > 30

Yeah, but if your keep murdering people at that ration, you'll be out of Muslims long before you're out of non-Muslims. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 19, 2016, 11:13:55 am

Correction: 34 infidels that went celebrating the birth of the modern republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 19, 2016, 11:43:40 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

Apparently 30 out of the 84 victims of Nice were Muslism, as reporte by France's catholic newspaper La Croix. So, uh, good job to the terrorrist for fighting against the Islamization of France?

Hypocrite Muslims that celebrated a dirty Western holiday? For ISIS supporters those are top priority targets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 11:08:37 am

He was referring policy, not slogan though.

Policy is asylum seekers welcome, not specified to Syrian, encompassing all asylum seekers from South of Med and East of Med

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 11:08:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 10:50:49 am

54 > 30

Yeah, but if your keep murdering people at that ration, you'll be out of Muslims long before you're out of non-Muslims. :p

2 infidels for 1 probable infidel = net removal of infidels
Couple that with higher birthrates for Muslim families, supplementation with mass migration and polygamous marriages, in addition to Europeans not having kids
This murder ratio would be very acceptable by ISIS strategy, especially since they view non-conforming Muslims as infidels too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 19, 2016, 12:34:33 pm

Pretty sure a 2/1 kill ratio for Isis would still see them wiped out before they did more than conquer a city or two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

A 2/1 kill ratio would see all French muslims deads with over 80% of French non-muslims left.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

Policy is asylum seekers welcome, not specified to Syrian, encompassing all asylum seekers from South of Med and East of Med

Debatable, international law force us to takes in all refugees, but efforts were targeted at Syrians: The Turkish deal have Greece deport all migrants and asylum seeker to Turkey, taking one Syrian for every Syrian, not caring about Afghans and so on. Merkel in the beginning was talking about Syrians, although the failure to set up an orderly process didn't actually allow targeting toward Syrians. But yeah, I just wanted to insist on the distnction between asylum seekers and migrants we've been talking before.  :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:11:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

in addition to Europeans not having kids

which is why we desperatly need enrichment, to teach us how to breed again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 19, 2016, 01:16:43 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:11:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

in addition to Europeans not having kids

which is why we desperatly need enrichment, to teach us how to breed again

Honeybees and flowers Martinuzz...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:17:46 pm

honeybees nearly extinct, bad example
xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 01:22:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:11:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

in addition to Europeans not having kids

which is why we desperatly need enrichment, to teach us how to breed again

If euros need to learn something biologically instinctual, there is no hope for euros, that is called an evolutionary dead end
Moreover it's worthless if your problem is breeding, as that's not something you can't probably fix with some next level science shit
Being a parent is something Euros don't want to do, to have kids and raise them
Thus the Europeans will die and be replaced, and have none to blame but themselves

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

A 2/1 kill ratio would see all French muslims deads with over 80% of French non-muslims left.

If you exacted it out all in one go, you'd also only need to kill the youngest of French to leave more room for Muslim migrants
Have Germans reached the point where their youth are minorities yet? I may check over them shitty stats
Chernobyl bird principle

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Debatable, international law force us to takes in all refugees

[Citation needed]
Also confirmed, Austria and Hungary are more powerful than the entire European Union combined

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

but efforts were targeted at Syrians

Rofl Sheb, you know that's bullshit, marketing was directed at telling people it was Syrians. Marketing =/= Action, this was still during boat immigrant bants and Germany was still undergoing balkan bants, Merkel knew what she was doing

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

The Turkish deal have Greece deport all migrants and asylum seeker to Turkey, taking one Syrian for every Syrian, not caring about Afghans and so on.

Merkel-Samson plan enacted after opening the door to the world is not a directed effort lel
It's damage control

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Merkel in the beginning was talking about Syrians, although the failure to set up an orderly process didn't actually allow targeting toward Syrians.

-Talk about Syrians
-Open border to the world
Belgians still believe this wasn't according to keikaku

DOCTORS HATE THEM

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 19, 2016, 12:34:33 pm

Pretty sure a 2/1 kill ratio for Isis would still see them wiped out before they did more than conquer a city or two.

It's not about ISIS and it's not about conquering land

Also in unrelated news, 3 Britons just got shot to death for some reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36834293)
Dunno why, but I imagine the 30*C sun made everyone angry or something

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 01:59:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 01:22:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:11:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

in addition to Europeans not having kids

which is why we desperatly need enrichment, to teach us how to breed again

If euros need to learn something biologically instinctual, there is no hope for euros, that is called an evolutionary dead end
Moreover it's worthless if your problem is breeding, as that's not something you can't probably fix with some next level science shit
Being a parent is something Euros don't want to do, to have kids and raise them
Thus the Europeans will die and be replaced, and have none to blame but themselves

More like the fact that the baby boom generation has crested long ago and we're just going back to normal replacement rates. Plus a bunch of other complicated reasons.

Quote

Also in unrelated news, 3 Britons just got shot to death for some reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36834293)
Dunno why, but I imagine the 30*C sun made everyone angry or something

Someone mentioned that yesterday, though didn't provide a link.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 02:35:47 pm

Did europe ever even had a baby boom generation? EU birth rates have been shit for a good while now, mostly after WW2, strangely enough.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 01:22:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 01:11:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 12:08:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Debatable, international law force us to takes in all refugees

[Citation needed]
Also confirmed, Austria and Hungary are more powerful than the entire European Union combined

Jöjj jöjj, Turulmadár

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://pctrs.network.hu/clubpicture/1/2/6/8/_/turul_madar_utra_keszul_keszely_gabi_kepe_nyoman__1268598_3363.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 01:59:39 pm

More like the fact that the baby boom generation has crested long ago and we're just going back to normal replacement rates. Plus a bunch of other complicated reasons.

Yeah but that would be a reasonable explanation

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 02:35:47 pm

Did europe ever even had a baby boom generation? EU birth rates have been shit for a good while now, mostly after WW2, strangely enough.

Yuropoors didn't have a baby boom gen?

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 01:59:39 pm

Quote

Also in unrelated news, 3 Britons just got shot to death for some reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36834293)
Dunno why, but I imagine the 30*C sun made everyone angry or something

Someone mentioned that yesterday, though didn't provide a link.

It turns out it was some bloke shooting two female relatives of his family, reason pretty much unknown but he killed himself (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/spalding-shooting-live-latest-news-gun-swimming-pool-dead-lincolnshire-police-castle-sports-complex-a7144271.html)
Murder suicide I guess for some reason, wonder where he got his gun from cos we're noguns

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 02:51:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

Murder suicide I guess for some reason, wonder where he got his gun from cos we're noguns

It's almost as if you're in the US!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 02:53:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 01:59:39 pm

Quote

Also in unrelated news, 3 Britons just got shot to death for some reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36834293)
Dunno why, but I imagine the 30*C sun made everyone angry or something

Someone mentioned that yesterday, though didn't provide a link.

It turns out it was some bloke shooting two female relatives of his family, reason pretty much unknown but he killed himself (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/spalding-shooting-live-latest-news-gun-swimming-pool-dead-lincolnshire-police-castle-sports-complex-a7144271.html)
Murder suicide I guess for some reason, wonder where he got his gun from cos we're noguns

Well, YOU provided a link, just saying the person who mentioned it last didn't post a link.

As for the gun, hunting rifle maybe? The BBC says it's a shotgun. Also, I thought Britian wasn't 'no guns, period', just REALLY, REALLY hard to get one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 19, 2016, 02:54:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

Yuropoors didn't have a baby boom gen?

America had a baby boom because all their men came back from war, yurop didn't because all their men died

thus proving murica is best at warfare

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:57:32 pm

Quote from: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 02:51:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

Murder suicide I guess for some reason, wonder where he got his gun from cos we're noguns

It's almost as if you're in the US!

Tbh if the ladies were sunbathing with their guns like in the USA they could've taken out this guy before he took everyone out

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 02:53:12 pm

Well, YOU provided a link, just saying the person who mentioned it last didn't post a link.

I don't get it, I was just elaborating on the quote cos new information arose on the MO of the shooter

Quote from: smjjames on July 19, 2016, 02:53:12 pm

As for the gun, hunting rifle maybe? The BBC says it's a shotgun. Also, I thought Britian wasn't 'no guns, period', just REALLY, REALLY hard to get one.

Farmers always have guns, city is noguns

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 01:22:28 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

A 2/1 kill ratio would see all French muslims deads with over 80% of French non-muslims left.

If you exacted it out all in one go, you'd also only need to kill the youngest of French to leave more room for Muslim migrants
Have Germans reached the point where their youth are minorities yet? I may check over them shitty stats
Chernobyl bird principle

I don't get what you're trying to mean. I was just pointing out that the Nice attacker killed a disproportionate number of Muslims compared to their proportion in the French population at large. I really have no clue what your point is with killing French kids?

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Debatable, international law force us to takes in all refugees

[Citation needed]
Also confirmed, Austria and Hungary are more powerful than the entire European Union combined

Yeah, actually you're right, pretty terrible phrasing. Force us to considers their claim if they show up and to not send them to dangerous countries. (Like that Greek judicial decision right after the Turkey deal).

As for Austria and Hungary, well, yes. The EU has no police force, no military, no border agency (Frontex is more of a coordination agency). IIRC, decision on immigration also need unanimity on the Council, so Europe was pretty much paralyzed since no one could agree on what to do.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

but efforts were targeted at Syrians

Rofl Sheb, you know that's bullshit, marketing was directed at telling people it was Syrians. Marketing =/= Action, this was still during boat immigrant bants and Germany was still undergoing balkan bants, Merkel knew what she was doing

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

The Turkish deal have Greece deport all migrants and asylum seeker to Turkey, taking one Syrian for every Syrian, not caring about Afghans and so on.

Merkel-Samson plan enacted after opening the door to the world is not a directed effort lel
It's damage control

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 12:45:54 pm

Merkel in the beginning was talking about Syrians, although the failure to set up an orderly process didn't actually allow targeting toward Syrians.

-Talk about Syrians
-Open border to the world
Belgians still believe this wasn't according to keikaku

You're bullshitting. What changed in Germany in 2015 was that they decided to no apply the Dublin protocol (that allows sending back refugees to the EU country the entered) for Syrians. (http://www.rferl.org/content/germany-migrants-refugees-asylum-explainer/27225247.html) That's what Merkel said. That's what Merkel did. Sure, only a third of asylum applications out of the half a million lodged in 2025 (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Five_main_citizenships_of_(non-EU)_asylum_applicants,_2015_(number_of_first_time_applicants,_rounded_figures)_YB16.png) were from Syrians (Table 1), but they still outnumber the second largest group (Albanians) by a factor of three. Afgan were only a fifth of the number of Syrians.

If history is any guide though, most of those that will end up recognized as refugees and not be deported will be Syrians. In 2014 in Germany, 1% of Syrian applicants where turned down, while 82% of Albanian were.

So yeah, the policy was to target Syrians, and targeted Syrians even if other group used the chaos from crappy implementation to apply for asylum too (Between 2014 and 2015, numbers of Syrians went from 41k to 158k, Afghans for exemple went from 9,6k to 31 k).


Edit:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 02:41:12 pm

It turns out it was some bloke shooting two female relatives of his family, reason pretty much unknown but he killed himself (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/spalding-shooting-live-latest-news-gun-swimming-pool-dead-lincolnshire-police-castle-sports-complex-a7144271.html)
Murder suicide I guess for some reason, wonder where he got his gun from cos we're noguns

I'm sure if we knew he was muslim, we'd be discussing how Islam encourage honour killing already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:24:14 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 19, 2016, 03:21:52 pm

It's hardly a surprise that since we became a society where both parents are likely to work, less people are having kids. Women today are reporting being unhappier than they were in their grandmothers' day (or than their grandmothers were, I suppose), despite 'having it all'.

Do you actually have a source for that? I've only ever seen it said unsourced by anti-feminist types, I wonder where that data comes from.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:40:03 pm

Thanks, I'll have a read.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:52:32 pm

Looking at it, the trends doesn't seem that strong, seems to be mostly stable. I must admit I have no idea what an "ordered probit" is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 19, 2016, 04:06:33 pm

I have no idea how reliable that "source" is, but if it's true, then Erdogan could set himself up for a second coup. (http://themess.net/forum/military-discussion/166336-massive-military-deployement-in-istanbul-and-ankara/page40#post167979) Apparently there are internal rules in military that prevent Erdogan from just putting up his cronies in places of all deposed officers, so now he has to resort to restoring Kemalists, because he'd probably really piss them off otherwise.

It's pretty hilarious, because they were purged off the military less than a decade ago - for coup-proofing reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 05:25:55 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

I don't get what you're trying to mean. I was just pointing out that the Nice attacker killed a disproportionate number of Muslims compared to their proportion in the French population at large. I really have no clue what your point is with killing French kids?

You said the killer was killing infidels really inefficiently, I contend this notion

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

Yeah, actually you're right, pretty terrible phrasing. Force us to considers their claim if they show up and to not send them to dangerous countries. (Like that Greek judicial decision right after the Turkey deal).

They're basically a giant peer pressure group, really effective until you get the peeps who don't give af

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

As for Austria and Hungary, well, yes. The EU has no police force, no military, no border agency (Frontex is more of a coordination agency). IIRC, decision on immigration also need unanimity on the Council, so Europe was pretty much paralyzed since no one could agree on what to do.

*Police force = Europol
*Military = Eufor
*Border agency = Frontex
*National borders = Schengen'd and schlonged out of existence
*Decision on immigration decided by Merkel with the Council disagreeing anyways
Europe was paralyzed cos it was a stupid idea to begin with that literally gambled on Yuros being dragged into something they never asked for until it got so bad no one could stop it if they wanted to reverse it - that's dumb

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

You're bullshitting. What changed in Germany in 2015 was that they decided to no apply the Dublin protocol (that allows sending back refugees to the EU country the entered) for Syrians. (http://www.rferl.org/content/germany-migrants-refugees-asylum-explainer/27225247.html) That's what Merkel said. That's what Merkel did. Sure, only a third of asylum applications out of the half a million lodged in 2025 (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Five_main_citizenships_of_(non-EU)_asylum_applicants,_2015_(number_of_first_time_applicants,_rounded_figures)_YB16.png) were from Syrians (Table 1), but they still outnumber the second largest group (Albanians) by a factor of three. Afgan were only a fifth of the number of Syrians.
If history is any guide though, most of those that will end up recognized as refugees and not be deported will be Syrians. In 2014 in Germany, 1% of Syrian applicants where turned down, while 82% of Albanian were.
So yeah, the policy was to target Syrians, and targeted Syrians even if other group used the chaos from crappy implementation to apply for asylum too (Between 2014 and 2015, numbers of Syrians went from 41k to 158k, Afghans for exemple went from 9,6k to 31 k).

LOL
-"What changed in 2015"
There's your problem boss, we don't live in 2015, we live in the current year - and more years than just 2015 led to 2016, what changed in 2015 was in response to the avalanche that already got rolling on policies we all talked about in an older thread, dunno why you forgot

Spoiler: Cite my shit up fam (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2016, 10:27:38 pm

Quote from: OOROLLOOO MY FRIEND on November 03, 1975, 08:55:54 pm

People have very short memories, but these conversations repeat again and again(...) Merkel no longer has support for mass immigration. 2013, Merkel stresses that Germany must accept more refugees whilst her parliamentary bloc moves to classify the Balkans as safe, allowing for easier rejection of asylum seekers from Serbia, Macedonia, Albania e.t.c. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-01/merkel-s-generosity-tested-by-surge-in-german-refugees). At that point Germany was taking in 200,000 refugees a year. They were warned that opening the door wider and leaving more incentives for people to make the journey to Germany would do the obvious; make more people make the journey to Germany.
By 2014:

Quote from: all claims and no cites makes jack a dull fuccboi on May 26, 2028, 02:19:06 pm

Earlier in 2014 amongst first time asylum seekers (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/9/97/First_time_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28_by_citizenship%2C_Q2_2014_%E2%80%93_Q2_2015.png) the proportion of Syrians was around 10-15%, not accounting for second time asylum seekers, fake Syrians (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/migrants-are-disguising-themselves-as-syrians-to-gain-entry-to-europe/2015/09/22/827c6026-5bd8-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html), those coming by sea (http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4) nor immigrants who authorities fail to log (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24583286). Eurostat has 700,000 asylum seekers in total logged across the EU despite countries like Germany alone taking in 750,000 illegal immigrants yearly, set to rise to 800,000 - conservative estimates. Measuring by asylum applications only takes into account those who bother to apply for asylum and takes their word for it.

That number had risen to 800,000 a year by conservative estimates, for Germany alone - excluding all other EU countries.
And unsurprisingly we are still talking about German and Swedish police covering up enriching crime, though it seems now they have shouldered all the blame leaving others just as responsible curiously clean.
By 2015 Merkel inquires whether Germany is losing that which makes Germany so strong," namely "the societal center." She is constantly asking herself, Merkel related, "if we are losing the center. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/merkel-under-fire-as-refugee-crisis-in-germany-worsens-a-1060720.html) By then the rate of immigration had its estimate increased from 800,000 to 1,500,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34442121), measured only by those who claimed asylum - excluding those who did not register. That number also does not include those logged as immigrants, legal or illegal. The number for Europe as a whole is set to increase to 3,000,000 in 2016 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-expecting-another-3-million-refugees-migrants-before-end-of-2016-a6722096.html), though I wonder how many times that number will be revised and how many will go to Germany.

Don't take your number for Germany from the formal asylum applications that year, which is just under 480,000. The number registered was under 1.5 million, for that year, for Germany alone. Current estimates for Germany in 2016 range from the optimistic (a fall to 900,000 a year) to the probable (a rise to 3 million a year) to the pessimistic (10 million beyond 2016, given by Gerd Muller, German minister of economic development).
Checking my numbers more using statistics from 2016 sources and not sources that were from the time as it happened:
At least 850,000 people are expected to cross the Mediterranean seeking refuge in Europe this year and next, the United Nations said on Tuesday, giving estimates that already look conservative.
"In 2015, UNHCR anticipates that approximately 400,000 new arrivals will seek international protection in Europe via the Mediterranean. In 2016 this number could reach 450,000 or more," it said in an appeal document.
Spokesman William Spindler said the prediction for this year was close to being fulfilled, with 366,000 having already made the voyage. The total will depend on whether migrants stop attempting the journey as the weather gets colder and the seas more dangerous.
So far, the numbers do not appear to have slowed down, with many appearing spurred on by Germany's announcement that it will ease the rules for Syrians seeking refuge who first reach the European Union through other countries. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-idUSKCN0R71EX20150909)

So much power for so much Noams are led by people whose news station deliberately ignore inconvenient statistics or try to pass off official asylum logging reports as the sum total or try to pass off a singular Meditteranean route as the entirety of the trafficking. It's disingenuous and I'd expect more of them. Do note that the weather souring and winter arriving did not slow down the rate of immigration to Europe, as Germany's prized toleran and progresiv is more alluring than the bite of cold, with an average of 1,115 arriving daily in Greece in January. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greece-volunteers-arrested-lesbos_us_56b37bdde4b01d80b2454c6f) February's stats will be interesting.

Also lol, remember when the 2015 estimate was 1,500,000
It was actually 2,140,000 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKCN0ZU1ZD)
And that's from the Krauts own federal stat bureau; I'd bet many pennies they've not broken trend and it's still conservative xD
If that stat wasn't including refugees = Berlin quota btfo

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

I'm sure if we knew he was muslim, we'd be discussing how Islam encourage honour killing already.

I'm sure if we knew his motive we'd be discussing his motive (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2011/12/2011121220173289603.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 05:33:28 pm

Now that's some decent sentencing. Let's hope it stands in case of appeal, and send a message to folks who think they can get away with honour killings.
25-30 years in prison is something that'll make you think twice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 05:36:00 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 19, 2016, 03:21:52 pm

It's not just Europeans, though. Look at Japan. Look at America. The wealthier and more educated people are, the less likely they are to have a lot of kids. And importing half the third world is a piss-poor solution to that. What we really need to do is implement social reforms that make it more attractive to be a parent - and that'll take much more than just increasing Child Tax Credit.

Look at Saudi Arabia, the richer they are the more children they have
Clearly Yuros just don't want to be parents, they are Chinese pandas who want to die
You also have to consider a lot of our education is pretty retarded, so kids come out dysfunctional with aposematism hair and clearly have no will for children of their own, seeing diversity as a moral obligation from their euphoric intellect

On overpopulation, honestly Europe doesn't make much of a difference either way, the population of the EU is what, 7% including migrants? Doesn't make all that much of a difference either way unless you're talking infrastructure or welfare

Quote from: martinuzz on July 19, 2016, 05:33:28 pm

Now that's some decent sentencing. Let's hope it stands in case of appeal, and send a message to folks who think they can get away with honour killings.
25-30 years in prison is something that'll make you think twice.

Pakistan also passed the anti-honour killing bill recently (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/pakistan-model-qandeel-balochs-brother-arrested-confesses-to-killing-her/articleshow/53249873.cms) cos no one likes being killed for no reason, even less so being killed by family for stupid reasons (http://www.awaztoday.pk/News_Senate-passes-Anti-Honour-Killing-bill-into-law_1_55233_Political-News.aspx)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:02:06 pm

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle, so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v

Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:02:06 pm

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 06:25:47 pm

Quote from: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:02:06 pm

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

Yeah, that bit of what TempAcc said can be pretty universal
This bit isn't

Quote from: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v
Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

What's different is that this generation decided it won't have kids and will instead just replace itself with migrants, gotta find someone to pay for them pensions right? Well, other than migrants being a net loss in taxes, so future generations of both are going to be double screwed lmao, they are going to hate this generation with a vengeance
Assuming we don't fuck up with one of the world-ending scenarios
Reminds me of when I read a hilarious science paper from the 70s warning of how if they did not act then, future generations would live in a world where there was irreparable damage. Something weird about how individually most of us would be more than willing to sacrifice for the future, but overall whole populations would rather not. Maybe there is something to enlightened bureaucracy in the EU after all, if only the EU bureaucracy didn't just want to postpone facing crises for future generations to deal with lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:35:49 pm

So, uh, what is the "current generation" you love to bash, LW? 80s kids? 90s kids?

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 06:25:47 pm

Quote from: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:02:06 pm

Yurop (and western society in general) loves to complain that the generations before the current ones did shit without thinking about what their children would have to handle

Switch that for every single society ever. Seriously, you can find stuff from pretty much anywhere in the world and any time period where someone is saying pretty much the same thing. Also "back in my day" and "<group> eats babies!"

Yeah, that bit of what TempAcc said can be pretty universal
This bit isn't

Quote from: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

so instead of actualy doing shit properly, have decided they simply won't have a next generation to worry about :v
Its what you get when you mix the OMG DAAAAD I'M DIFFERENT thing with the LOL RESPONSIBILITIES? NOT FOR ME thing.

What's different is that this generation decided it won't have kids and will instead just replace itself with migrants, gotta find someone to pay for them pensions right? Well, other than migrants being a net loss in taxes, so future generations of both are going to be double screwed lmao, they are going to hate this generation with a vengeance
Assuming we don't fuck up with one of the world-ending scenarios
Reminds me of when I read a hilarious science paper from the 70s warning of how if they did not act then, future generations would live in a world where there was irreparable damage. Something weird about how individually most of us would be more than willing to sacrifice for the future, but overall whole populations would rather not. Maybe there is something to enlightened bureaucracy in the EU after all, if only the EU bureaucracy didn't just want to postpone facing crises for future generations to deal with lol

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

Having a national identity is basically asking to get called a nazi (or a hooligan) nowadays, depending on where you are, and most of those places are in yurop. Like, I get it, nazi germany fucking sucked, but get over it, jeez.

@dorsidwarf

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:45:48 pm

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 07:29:06 pm

Current generation, current year obv

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:35:49 pm

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

Atomized novelty seekers who live alone, will die alone, then their people die with them
They will then be replaced by those who value family, who build for the future - rather than consume for the present. Millions of people whose wants and desires are for themselves, for they will have no children and have zero obligations to the future. Thus they can take everything in the present and it doesn't matter, once they die that's it. Why should they care for anything but themself?

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:35:49 pm

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

If this is true, if Germany wanted a population boom to pay for their pensions, all they'd have to do is ban contraception for 20 years, instant population boom.
That they didn't suggests it is not true, and has much more to do with Yuros living for themselves as individuals, having dismantled the very notion of a familial unit as various taboo, their very heritage as worthless and the seeking of pleasurable experience of highest importance

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:45:48 pm

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

For as long as man has had culture, kinship, tradition, custom and religion, man has tried to preserve it and learn from it. Up until now really. It is altogether fascinating why so many across Europe have divorced themselves from their past, their future, and are more than happy to live as #YOLO with no regards as to the consequences of their lives

Pretty damn anomalous really, since Biblical times of warring tribes, of Roman attempts to master the loyalty of so many different peoples, to Confucian regulation on family units, to the ancient Greeks on how the family is the root of the state - it seems to be quite common sense. Children learn from their parents their wisdom and their ways, and in turn pass this down to their children, and this goes on and on ad infinitum until each line goes extinct. That a whole continent learned from their education to instead live and die as a sole man who is of no people, of no family, of no history - is pretty damn spectacular
Historical eunuchs and celibates have shown more interest in preserving their collective stuff

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I've got a joke related to this

A man from India sends an online application to an intern in England for an online degree. He writes his application and sends it off with an apology:
"My sincere apologies for my English, I am not an native speaker."
The man from India gets this reply:
"alryt brud no worrese yh."

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

In London we have a lot of Tamils, and they've got a cool naming system where the child takes the first name of their father as their surname, so every generation has a new surname. They have far more interest in continuing their lines than Euros, far more interested in founding families than Euros, and they don't even have that family name thing to carry on

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

It is sorta sobering to see this gen's politicians saying just live with terrorism, quite symptomatic of the casual disregard of decisions that will define civilization lol

Also cos silly Sardinian chanting was mentioned, I think it's worth mentioning a neat top sekrit about their genetics, and what they share in common with modern Zoroastrians
On the nile end of the fertile crescent and the iranian end of the fertile crescent, the humans there diverged genetically 46,000 and 77,000 years ago, making them even more diverse than originally anticipated (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943.full)

Quote

The DNA of the Zagros mountains farmers most closely resembled that of living people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran - and Iranian Zoroastrians in particular. Zoroastrians are the people who practise an ancient pre-Islamic religion of present-day Iran.
The present-day population whose genomes most closely resemble those of the western farmers is found not in the Middle East, but on the Italian island of Sardinia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36788165

Tfw Zoroastrians have endured events which ended their civilizations multiple times under persecution which has lasted millennia to this day (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/14/opinion/choksy-iran-zoroastrian/) and are still preserving their ways fiercer than Euros did in prosperity
Also swear down if you mugs kill the Sardinians I'm gonna be saltier than the dead sea xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 05:25:55 pm

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

I don't get what you're trying to mean. I was just pointing out that the Nice attacker killed a disproportionate number of Muslims compared to their proportion in the French population at large. I really have no clue what your point is with killing French kids?

You said the killer was killing infidels really inefficiently, I contend this notion

I said he was de-Muslimifying France. 

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

Yeah, actually you're right, pretty terrible phrasing. Force us to considers their claim if they show up and to not send them to dangerous countries. (Like that Greek judicial decision right after the Turkey deal).

They're basically a giant peer pressure group, really effective until you get the peeps who don't give af

Yup, you just describe international law.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

As for Austria and Hungary, well, yes. The EU has no police force, no military, no border agency (Frontex is more of a coordination agency). IIRC, decision on immigration also need unanimity on the Council, so Europe was pretty much paralyzed since no one could agree on what to do.

*Police force = Europol
*Military = Eufor
*Border agency = Frontex
*National borders = Schengen'd and schlonged out of existence
*Decision on immigration decided by Merkel with the Council disagreeing anyways
Europe was paralyzed cos it was a stupid idea to begin with that literally gambled on Yuros being dragged into something they never asked for until it got so bad no one could stop it if they wanted to reverse it - that's dumb

Europol and Frontex are coordinating agencies, that don't have the right to deploy and fight crime/immigration directly and have a combined staff of 1284. Eufor isn't an organization, but the name given to joint military missions. Merkel decided to grant asylum to Syrians.

Meanwile, the Austrian federal police number 20,000, for a much smaller stretch of border. So yeah, Austria is more Powerful than the EU.


Although apparently I was wrong on the unanimity for the council, at least for the refugee quota thing.

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

Also lol, remember when the 2015 estimate was 1,500,000
It was actually 2,140,000 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKCN0ZU1ZD)
And that's from the Krauts own federal stat bureau; I'd bet many pennies they've not broken trend and it's still conservative xD
If that stat wasn't including refugees = Berlin quota btfo

I skipped that whole part, because the first link I clicked was that one. Are you even trying? This number is for all migration, including EU migration. For someone who complains about "one-size fit all" policy, you have no qualms about mixing everything.

Quote

It said around 45 percent of the 2.14 million immigrants who arrived in Germany last year were citizens of other European Union countries, 13 percent were from non-EU European countries, and 30 percent were from Asia, mainly from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. Five percent were from Africa.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 20, 2016, 03:58:22 am

I guess early 20s is the magical age for popping out babies, and if you pass that you're a lot less inclined to start a family. And the age at which people get secure jobs and their own place has moved well into 30s. So yeah, people aren't having kids because they can't afford to have kids.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 04:20:20 am

Erdogan hassed passed an emergency decree ordering any and all university professors to not leave the country. Intellectuals are not allowed to escape.
Also, 21000 teachers have been fired from private education facilities..


Erdogan announced that the Turkish Security Council will meet today, and that afterwards, he will have "an important message for the Turkish nation".
He refused to comment any further about what that would be.

Also, wikileaks has been blocked in Turkey, after they released 100s of thousands of documents regarding the AK party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 20, 2016, 04:26:03 am

Passing the 70'000 Mark for purged soon, btw I already read that before you edited, I didn't think edits reset the new replies, but I guess I was wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 20, 2016, 04:30:40 am

It does on the ordinary boards, but not in the new responses/posts groups.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 20, 2016, 04:40:46 am

Aha! That explains things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 20, 2016, 04:45:54 am

Quote from: DJ on July 20, 2016, 03:58:22 am

I guess early 20s is the magical age for popping out babies, and if you pass that you're a lot less inclined to start a family. And the age at which people get secure jobs and their own place has moved well into 30s. So yeah, people aren't having kids because they can't afford to have kids.

Probably doesn't help that most of the infrastructure required to support families has been eroded or neglected across much of Europe for the past couple of decades. In the UK at least schools are already overcrowded and affordable housing, especially houses large enough for parents with kids, is in limited supply. There's also large amounts of financial obstacles to safely and properly rearing children for a lot of people since a lot of people are sliding further and further towards the poverty line. I doubt people without children who talk to the ones who do have them like the idea of bringing up a child in circumstances where just getting them into a half decent school is difficult.

Though I do recall reading that biologically the best time to have children is in the mid to late thirties, as there's less chance of the baby being unhealthy when born for some reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 04:52:17 am

What I understand, risk at birth defects like Down Syndrome starts increasing at around age 30.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 20, 2016, 04:53:19 am

Dunno about biological side of it, but psychologically I reckon you're a LOT more likely to do it if you don't realize yet just what you're getting yourself into.

But then again teen pregnancies are on the rise, so they may save us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 04:56:40 am

Quote from: DJ on July 20, 2016, 04:53:19 am

But then again teen pregnancies are on the rise

Are they?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 20, 2016, 04:57:17 am

Dunno, conservatives claim that all the time. At the very least we have TV shows that encourage teen pregnancy, like 16 and Pregnant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 04:59:20 am

True :P

Gotta love their logic though. Teen pregnancy? Stop birth control!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 20, 2016, 05:04:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 04:52:17 am

What I understand, risk at birth defects like Down Syndrome starts increasing at around age 30.

I read that the overall risk of complications is lowest around age 35 several years ago, though I'm looking through some articles on the matter atm and it looks like the ideal point is probably in the late 20s, the genes are still fresh and the body is more developed than it was in the late teens or early 20s and should be able to deal with childbirth better. A big part of why doctors seem to feel the mid to late 30s isn't great is because it's harder to concieve, which is honestly a pretty crap reason.

At the same time the risks of complications/defects in childbirth at most ages are pretty low anyway, so with access to decent medical care it doesn't make much difference what age women choose to have kids.


Amusingly enough from what I can find it looks like there's more risk of genetic complications in kids as a result of having an older father than having an older mother. Which I suppose makes sense since egg cells are basically finished and in storage from an early age while sperm cells are produced regularly and the more cell division takes place the more DNA errors will exist in the resulting cells.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 07:17:11 am

Dutch police made a breakthrough in their fight against organised crime.
Their IT experts have managed to crack the PGP service which enabled people to have secure telephone conversations on their computers, or blackberries using speech compression and advanced cryptology.

The police have already found incriminating conversations between key suspects in heavy crime investigations.
In one example conversation, the suspect asked "Why didn't you burn the car in the garage? Why didn't you torch it? Can't they find fingerprints and DNA in it?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 07:20:43 am

Quote

Turkey’s controversial President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sparked mockery and condemnation by defending new powers he wants to give himself as being similar to Adolf Hitler’s.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 07:24:59 am

In Brussels, there's a major operation going on by police and security services. The Muntplein in Brussels and the surrounding area have been cordoned off.
It is unclear what is happening. On social media pictures can be found of the bomb squad arriving, and of the police holding a man at gunpoint.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551 (http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551)

http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/199840-politieactie-door-verdacht-persoon

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 20, 2016, 07:29:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2016, 07:29:06 pm

Current generation, current year obv

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:35:49 pm

But yeah, lots of people these days are more concerned about living their lives rather than popping out babies as fast as possible. It's almost like these are tens of millions of people with independent hopes, dreams, wants and desires, and not a bunch of Sims who aren't carrying out the "make baby" command no matter how loudly you yell.

Atomized novelty seekers who live alone, will die alone, then their people die with them
They will then be replaced by those who value family, who build for the future - rather than consume for the present. Millions of people whose wants and desires are for themselves, for they will have no children and have zero obligations to the future. Thus they can take everything in the present and it doesn't matter, once they die that's it. Why should they care for anything but themself?

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:35:49 pm

The fact is, counties where contraception is illegal, prohibited by religion, or unaffordable will always out-populate countries where it is widely and freely available, and the use of which is encouraged.

If this is true, if Germany wanted a population boom to pay for their pensions, all they'd have to do is ban contraception for 20 years, instant population boom.
That they didn't suggests it is not true, and has much more to do with Yuros living for themselves as individuals, having dismantled the very notion of a familial unit as various taboo, their very heritage as worthless and the seeking of pleasurable experience of highest importance

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 19, 2016, 06:45:48 pm

I doubt that the average man had ever cared about such things in the past, except in a vague, religious righteness manner.
99% of humankind has spent far more that 99% of its existence caring less about anything other than providing themselves with food.

For as long as man has had culture, kinship, tradition, custom and religion, man has tried to preserve it and learn from it. Up until now really. It is altogether fascinating why so many across Europe have divorced themselves from their past, their future, and are more than happy to live as #YOLO with no regards as to the consequences of their lives

Pretty damn anomalous really, since Biblical times of warring tribes, of Roman attempts to master the loyalty of so many different peoples, to Confucian regulation on family units, to the ancient Greeks on how the family is the root of the state - it seems to be quite common sense. Children learn from their parents their wisdom and their ways, and in turn pass this down to their children, and this goes on and on ad infinitum until each line goes extinct. That a whole continent learned from their education to instead live and die as a sole man who is of no people, of no family, of no history - is pretty damn spectacular
Historical eunuchs and celibates have shown more interest in preserving their collective stuff

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

I essentialy meant this, but I didn't word it properly cuz muh englis pls teech.

I've got a joke related to this

A man from India sends an online application to an intern in England for an online degree. He writes his application and sends it off with an apology:
"My sincere apologies for my English, I am not an native speaker."
The man from India gets this reply:
"alryt brud no worrese yh."

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

I guess yurop more than any other place has developed some sort of fear for tradition and legacy? People don't seem to care that their family name will likely go poof with them, or that their genetic lineage is going to hit a wall with them. In most of europe nobody seems to care about their own fucking culture (or if it will survive) actualy, like that one friend of mine that loved to make fun of what he considered weird hungarian men who like ride horses and practice archery, or silly sardinians doing their ~silly terrible~ chanting.

In London we have a lot of Tamils, and they've got a cool naming system where the child takes the first name of their father as their surname, so every generation has a new surname. They have far more interest in continuing their lines than Euros, far more interested in founding families than Euros, and they don't even have that family name thing to carry on

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

It is sorta sobering to see this gen's politicians saying just live with terrorism, quite symptomatic of the casual disregard of decisions that will define civilization lol

Also cos silly Sardinian chanting was mentioned, I think it's worth mentioning a neat top sekrit about their genetics, and what they share in common with modern Zoroastrians
On the nile end of the fertile crescent and the iranian end of the fertile crescent, the humans there diverged genetically 46,000 and 77,000 years ago, making them even more diverse than originally anticipated (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943.full)

Quote

The DNA of the Zagros mountains farmers most closely resembled that of living people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran - and Iranian Zoroastrians in particular. Zoroastrians are the people who practise an ancient pre-Islamic religion of present-day Iran.
The present-day population whose genomes most closely resemble those of the western farmers is found not in the Middle East, but on the Italian island of Sardinia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36788165

Tfw Zoroastrians have endured events which ended their civilizations multiple times under persecution which has lasted millennia to this day (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/14/opinion/choksy-iran-zoroastrian/) and are still preserving their ways fiercer than Euros did in prosperity
Also swear down if you mugs kill the Sardinians I'm gonna be saltier than the dead sea xD

Thanks for raising the alarm about population decline. I wish people weren't afraid of strangers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 07:35:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 07:24:59 am

In Brussels, there's a major operation going on by police and security services. The Muntplein in Brussels and the surrounding area have been cordoned off.
It is unclear what is happening. On social media pictures can be found of the bomb squad arriving, and of the police holding a man at gunpoint.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551 (http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/brussel/1.2718551)

http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/199840-politieactie-door-verdacht-persoon

Radio report "Someone seen with wires sticking out of his jacket". It's National Day tomorrow, and the Muntplein is right next to the Royal Palace where all the parading is planned, so everyone is pretty nervous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 07:48:14 am

Looks like it's a stalemate for now. Police have a gun on the man, special forces are lying on the ground with drawn weapons, but they will not approach the man until a specialized bomb unit arrives.

Don't they have dartguns with elephant tranquilizer?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 07:51:58 am

We should make nudism obligatory by law. That way you'll always spot the bombvest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 08:09:22 am

Supermarket Carrefour at Waterloo (Brussels) has also been evacuated, as a suspect package has been found. Bomb squad is at the site.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 08:18:21 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 08:09:22 am

Supermarket Carrefour at Waterloo (Brussels) has also been evacuated, as a suspect package has been found. Bomb squad is at the site.

Yeah, that one is annoying, I needed to buy some groceries.


Tranquilizers might not help much: it's easy to rig a vest with a deadman-switch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 20, 2016, 08:47:28 am

Erdogan bans academics from leaving country and orders those overseas to return (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/20/turkey-bans-academics-from-leaving-country-in-unprecedented-crac/).

"Free academic thought is poisonous to dictators" (c)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 08:51:34 am

I guess the EU can expect some more asylum requests now

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 08:18:21 am

Tranquilizers might not help much: it's easy to rig a vest with a deadman-switch.

Yeah I guess you're right and it looks like they really really want this guy alive, to give him some pain receptor enhancing drugs and ask him where he got the vest while gently squeezing his nipples.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 08:56:42 am

Not if he keeps them from fleeing, no.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 08:58:05 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 08:56:42 am

Not if he keeps them from fleeing, no.

I was referring to the academics that have been ordered to return

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 20, 2016, 08:58:24 am

Gotta stop all those pesky "I don't feel like wearing a turkish flag apron and whipping the coup soldiers and beheading them" people.

Anyway, are there even tranqulizers that work so fast as to knock out a fully grown man before he even gets a chance to pull a trigger? I feel like he'd just go ~aw shit~ once the dart hit him and start shooting/blowing things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 09:01:14 am

Quote from: TempAcc on July 20, 2016, 08:58:24 am

Gotta stop all those pesky "I don't feel like wearing a turkish flag apron and whipping the coup soldiers and beheading them" people.

Anyway, are there even tranqulizers that work so fast as to knock out a fully grown man before he even gets a chance to pull a trigger? I feel like he'd just go ~aw shit~ once the dart hit him and start shooting/blowing things.

You could taze him, but then, a) We are not 'murricans and b) Dead man switch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 09:02:00 am

Quote from: TempAcc on July 20, 2016, 08:58:24 am

Anyway, are there even tranqulizers that work so fast as to knock out a fully grown man before he even gets a chance to pull a trigger?

There's a few marine creatures that have a poison that paralyses nearly instantly but doesn't kill. People stung die of drowning, not of heart or lung failure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 09:23:21 am

Apparently the entire Belgian army is going to be mobilized tomorrow to secure the National Day. Even some soldiers who would usually join the parade at National Day, will be deployed now instead.

Speaking of large events, this weekend, the Gay Pride parade will be held in Amsterdam. While the past few years, this event has been advertised and pre-celebrated bigtime in the media, this year there's almost no advertisement of it.
I wonder if that's per request of the security service, to keep it low profile.

Last year the event had the center of Amsterdam closed down for new vistors halfway through, by emergency mayoral decree, because with 2 million visitors in the city center on top of the 1 million population, Amsterdam was just literally full.

In other news, the Belgian parliament passed a new law last week, which forbids the sale of anonymous prepaid SIM cards. They expect that late this year, you will need to have your ID registered when purchasing a pre-paid card.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 10:50:58 am

Looks like the man who has been held at gunpoint for four hours was a false alarm. Police reports that he was no terrorist but a "person studying waves and radiaton".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 20, 2016, 10:57:10 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 10:50:58 am

Looks like the man who has been held at gunpoint for four hours was a false alarm. Police reports that he was no terrorist but a "person studying waves and radiaton".

Lolwhat? #belgians

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 07:20:43 am

Quote

Turkey’s controversial President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sparked mockery and condemnation by defending new powers he wants to give himself as being similar to Adolf Hitler’s.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

TBH considering the amount of people he's rounded up he must already have petty Hitlery powers. And I'm not talking about hiding emails.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 10:58:31 am

He's a university student apparently.

My local supermarket was also just a case of someone forgetting a bag in a shopping cart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 10:59:06 am

Quote from: MarcAFK on July 20, 2016, 10:57:10 am

And I'm not talking about hiding emails.

That's one power he apparently doesn't have #wikileaks

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 10:58:31 am

He's a university student apparently.

Poor guy. I'm sure he has wave and radiation patterns in his underpants now.

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 10:58:31 am

My local supermarket was also just a case of someone forgetting a bag in a shopping cart.

It's getting more and more clear that the terrorists have won.
Maybe I should just emigrate to Israel, at least their wall is finished.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 20, 2016, 11:10:14 am

When you can't walk around with a backpack full of random wires it's time to emigrate to the Middle East, they're less oppressive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 20, 2016, 01:41:08 pm

I wonder how Turkey's economy will react to Erdogan's/Muslim Brotherhood's Islamization of Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 20, 2016, 02:19:20 pm

Their credit rating just dropped so probably not going great.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 10:59:06 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 10:58:31 am

My local supermarket was also just a case of someone forgetting a bag in a shopping cart.

It's getting more and more clear that the terrorists have won.
Maybe I should just emigrate to Israel, at least their wall is finished.

The trade-offs society seems to make are rather interesting to consider.

Diversity, or stability?
Innovation and creativity, or community and cooperation?
Liberty, or equality?
Privacy, or safety?
Efficiency, or variety?
Corruption, or abuse?
Disease, or pollution?

Speaking of, I have to ask LW what he thinks about Aarhus and it's approach to deradicalizing it's populace. I mean, the rest of you are free to answer too :P But my guess is that he's at least seen it and I'm interested in his perspective, considering the importance that I think he places on retributive justice.

As a side question, actually, how do you feel about adopted kids, considering your views on family, LW?

And should I just make an 'ask LW' thread? That seems likes something that should exist. The densest possible concentration of shitpost, wherein we might discover enlightenment, and be reborn in our next life as a spambot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 20, 2016, 03:43:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 10:59:06 am

It's getting more and more clear that the terrorists have won.
Maybe I should just emigrate to Israel, at least their wall is finished.

Nah. The terrorists are losing, and losing hard, given by ISIS recent major territorial and material losses. These terrorist acts are simply the only way of war possible for an organization that can do nothing to attack our soldiers from blowing them up with impunity, but even with using these kinds of tactics, the kill/death ratio is still grossly in our favor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 03:47:35 pm

They might lose the military conflicts, but they have destroyed our civilization

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 03:50:40 pm

What? Nah, we're good.

Rolepgeek,: I read quite a few things about the Aahrus efforts. I've not seen numbers on whether it works or not though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 20, 2016, 03:52:09 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 03:47:35 pm

They might lose the military conflicts, but they have destroyed our civilization

No previous terrorist movement has, I don't really think this one will either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 20, 2016, 04:14:51 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 03:47:35 pm

They might lose the military conflicts, but they have destroyed our civilization

Our technology improves at an unprecedented rate and our society is overall more advanced than it ever was before and gets better with every new day, what drugs are you on to imagine that people fearing enemy action due to the ongoing war (which is perfectly fine, since it's a fucking war) are somehow a sign of having our civilization destroyed?

What do you think our civilization is made of, hugs and puppies? Do you even history?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 05:22:44 pm

Spoiler: To Sheb (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

I said he was de-Muslimifying France.

At that ratio he's not

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

Yup, you just describe international law.

Now we just need to get the peer pressure going on how smoking oil is not cool

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

Europol and Frontex are coordinating agencies, that don't have the right to deploy and fight crime/immigration directly and have a combined staff of 1284. Eufor isn't an organization, but the name given to joint military missions. Merkel decided to grant asylum to Syrians.
Meanwile, the Austrian federal police number 20,000, for a much smaller stretch of border. So yeah, Austria is more Powerful than the EU.

Austria stronk

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

Although apparently I was wrong on the unanimity for the council, at least for the refugee quota thing.

I reckon if there were unanimity, border controls could've been postponed for another 5-15 years
Hell, best case scenario the EU could've just absorbed everything from Atlantic to Pacific (would the EU absorb the eastern part of Russia?)
I guess that's something to consider in /AGG/?

Quote from: Sheb on July 19, 2016, 03:09:10 pm

I skipped that whole part, because the first link I clicked was that one. Are you even trying? This number is for all migration, including EU migration. For someone who complains about "one-size fit all" policy, you have no qualms about mixing everything.

-You skipped the whole part
-Complain about numbers

I literally included all the numbers, all of them
You skipped them
God's sakes man I've done all the work getting these numbers, I can't make you read them for you xD
P.s. read the Reuters news, they're uncertain whether that article counts the asylum seekers, which was measured at those who claimed asylum was 1,500,000 - not including those who weren't logged
Not even I have the breekiness to say I ignored all your stats and then complain when I can't find the stats :P

Spoiler: To Martinuzz (click to show/hide)

Quote from: martinuzz on July 20, 2016, 03:47:35 pm

They might lose the military conflicts, but they have destroyed our civilization

Don't blame ISIS, they did fuck all
You destroy yourself long before anyone on the outside walks in lel

Spoiler: To Rolepgeek (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

Speaking of, I have to ask LW what he thinks about Aarhus and it's approach to deradicalizing it's populace.[/url]

Bringing ISIS fighters back to your streets on purpose is retarded (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copenhagen_shootings)

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

As a side question, actually, how do you feel about adopted kids, considering your views on family, LW?

Adoption is something people do not consider often enough, which is fitting considering orphans get ignored so much
We had bad PR in the UK due to some adopted kids murdering their parents, which I suppose is how refugee welcome activists feel whenever a refugee murders their carers, it makes everyone reluctant to lower their guard and adopt. There is the family planning angle where abortion has become much more preferable to foster care, which I think if countries like Germany seriously want to keep increasing their population, should consider. Then there is the issue on how what fostered children there are, if they grow up without parents they are highly highly likely to become fucked up as adults with shite career prospects/high likelihood of drug use/violent crime/mental illness. Brought a tear to my eye when some bloke started a charity to teach boys without fathers how to be a gentleman, adorable seeing all these kids wearing oversized suits learning that they have ways out other than the gangs. In short; it's awesome - but you really should screen prospective parents stringently before handing out these kids (Australia and Canada had serious pedo cases). Sibling orphans should never be split, and attempts should be made to get kids fostered as young as possible (older they are the harder it is to get them fostered). Our gov grants up to £50,000 to prospective foster parents to help them care for the kids, as long as you screen for idiots who try to abuse the system by adopting kids and neglecting them for grant money this is more or less ok. Also on a more temporal way, in the West, women who focus on advancing into elite careers over family can still found their family without expensive IVF treatment and just adopt some kids who need a family, win win. Not too many jokes or EU-related stuff, but to relate this to the European Union, the free movement of people and adoption means international adoption within the European Union is something significant.
I'm more suspicious of international adoption because there's less social services can do if kids are given away to couples who turn out to be neglectful/malevolent and trophy children and human trafficking is another concern, particularly if couples are rejected in their home country for being unfit for parenting and just go abroad to a country with lower regulation. Besides that, seems all right. Just make sure the kids are really, really young. It is better if they're too young to remember home or their mother tongue, so they don't have to experience any shock upon adapting to their adopted home.
Failing a collapse of Schengen area, this is an area in which EU bureaucrats should probably begin coordinating regulation between nation states. Start a motion for common principles of adoption 5 years from now, start coordination national governments towards common adoption policy 10 years from now, 15 years from now make it legal obligation of EU states = shit but at least shit with bureaucratic oversight

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

And should I just make an 'ask LW' thread? That seems likes something that should exist. The densest possible concentration of shitpost, wherein we might discover enlightenment, and be reborn in our next life as a spambot.

*Kitchenbot. Spambots only sell you things you don't need, but you will always need kitchen (or you die from lack of kitchen)

Spoiler: To Sergarr (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sergarr on July 20, 2016, 04:14:51 pm

What do you think our civilization is made of, hugs and puppies? Do you even history?

It was kinda spooky reading how in the UK our British history books were being altered so that Britain has had African settlers since Roman times and was always a part of European Empires (never forget, St. George = Turk). My favourite was when I was in Uni and my gommie professor kept going on about how England didn't exist
YURI YYYYYYY
Also one OwlBread would probably roll his eyes at if he saw this, about how in the runup to the Scot referendum an archaeological breakthrough revealed that the Scots north of Hadrian's wall worked with the Romans instead of raiding them. The timing of this was so coincidental I still wonder if it was legit or not

So yeah, history's pretty fucked right now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 06:23:08 pm

The archaeological dig was probbably as accurate as most archaeological digs.

That is, entirely based on conjectures from badly-paid Middle-aged people with bad teeth and unpleasant hats. Who, while extremely skilled and experienced at these conjectures, will still construct an entire settlement with a long history and at least thee wars out of two pots and a skeleton dug up by even-worse-paid graduates.
(When in fact actually Machinitus the trader broke his neck falling off the wagon and was buried at the side of the road with the antique pots he'd been given.

My father spent eight years of his life dedicated to becoming an archaeologist,graduated, spent one summer on a dig site with Phil Hardy ( the Time Team one) and immediatly went into finance and IT instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 06:29:31 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 06:23:08 pm

The archaeological dig was probbably as accurate as most archaeological digs.
That is, entirely based on conjectures from badly-paid Middle-aged people with bad teeth and unpleasant hats. Who, while extremely skilled and experienced at these conjectures, will still construct an entire settlement with a long history and at least thee wars out of two pots and a skeleton dug up by even-worse-paid graduates.
(When in fact actually Machinitus the trader broke his neck falling off the wagon and was buried at the side of the road with the antique pots he'd been given.
My father spent eight years of his life dedicated to becoming an archaeologist,graduated, spent one summer on a dig site with Phil Hardy ( the Time Team one) and immediatly went into finance and IT instead.

One of my life goals is to build my own house to standards that will last 1000 years so I can confuse archaeologists with random bullshit, like spring loaded coffins, shitposts on the walls, fake curses, allusions to household gods that don't exist, wrong descriptions of culture, elaborate fake histories e.t.c.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 07:21:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 06:29:31 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 06:23:08 pm

The archaeological dig was probbably as accurate as most archaeological digs.
That is, entirely based on conjectures from badly-paid Middle-aged people with bad teeth and unpleasant hats. Who, while extremely skilled and experienced at these conjectures, will still construct an entire settlement with a long history and at least thee wars out of two pots and a skeleton dug up by even-worse-paid graduates.
(When in fact actually Machinitus the trader broke his neck falling off the wagon and was buried at the side of the road with the antique pots he'd been given.
My father spent eight years of his life dedicated to becoming an archaeologist,graduated, spent one summer on a dig site with Phil Hardy ( the Time Team one) and immediatly went into finance and IT instead.

One of my life goals is to build my own house to standards that will last 1000 years so I can confuse archaeologists with random bullshit, like spring loaded coffins, shitposts on the walls, fake curses, allusions to household gods that don't exist, wrong descriptions of culture, elaborate fake histories e.t.c.

Lottery goals: funding LW's House of Archaeological FuckYou

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 08:08:31 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

The trade-offs society seems to make are rather interesting to consider.

Diversity, or stability?
Innovation and creativity, or community and cooperation?
Liberty, or equality?
Privacy, or safety?
Efficiency, or variety?
Corruption, or abuse?
Disease, or pollution?

I really have to wonder why these are all mutually exclusive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 20, 2016, 08:11:18 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 06:23:08 pm

The archaeological dig was probbably as accurate as most archaeological digs.

That is, entirely based on conjectures from badly-paid Middle-aged people with bad teeth and unpleasant hats. Who, while extremely skilled and experienced at these conjectures, will still construct an entire settlement with a long history and at least thee wars out of two pots and a skeleton dug up by even-worse-paid graduates.
(When in fact actually Machinitus the trader broke his neck falling off the wagon and was buried at the side of the road with the antique pots he'd been given.

My father spent eight years of his life dedicated to becoming an archaeologist,graduated, spent one summer on a dig site with Phil Hardy ( the Time Team one) and immediatly went into finance and IT instead.

i have been on one dig and it was meh but I'm going into underwater archeological survey which is much more interesting. i get to work with people and equipment that has been and worked on the titanic. also less squatting more hovering and better preservation.

the titanic's overrated, archeology worthless and disintegrating but still cool.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 08:18:32 pm

In German population news, "Babies Welcome loan" in which German mothers are given interest free loans to support raising children opposed by every single party because that's racist and short term (what) thinking, Germany must have diversity. My favourite is the one who would be ok with it if it also helped migrant families grow even larger lol (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8EQFbqu-8)

So basically, told you so everyone
It's not on how educated you are or how rich you are, rich educated Arabs have proven well enough if you want a big family you have a big family. It's about the type of education
Germans learn that family units and raising kids is patriarchal, that sustaining the nation state is racist, that not replacing yourself with diversity is naziism, that the only thing that matters is expressing yourself and ignoring the past and future

Everyone else in the world doesn't act this neurotically lol

So to elaborate on previous posts

Quote from: Covenant on July 19, 2016, 03:21:52 pm

It's hardly a surprise that since we became a society where both parents are likely to work, less people are having kids. Women today are reporting being unhappier than they were in their grandmothers' day (or than their grandmothers were, I suppose), despite 'having it all'. Plenty of women say they feel pressured to have a career despite the fact that they'd rather be a stay-at-home mother. We've gone beyond it simply being an option for the mother to work, to there being strong pressure on the woman to do so - both societal pressure and economic pressure.

I disagree with this notion. In western societies technological advancement has made stay at home parents more or less obsolete, at least as far as a full time job is concerned. Part time job is definitely doable, and full time job is still achievable - that's without even factoring in more flexible jobs/stay at home fathers/caretakers/relatives/self-employment. I think it's significant for example that when Andrea Leadsom felt proud of announcing she was a hard working professional and a mother of many children - she got slated like hell, and that's just the UK, which is not even as dystopian as Germany. It's a taboo lmao to be a eurofamily

One of the most surreal things I've seen was a German documentary about some Germans that moved to the countryside to found families in their pastoral paradises
The documentary started playing spooky metal whilst they showed these children dancing in a ring, holding hands
You can't fucking parody this shit
I think we went too far and actually permanently broke the Germans, and they don't plan on going down without ensuring Europe shares their ideal world

Quote from: TempAcc on July 19, 2016, 06:40:04 pm

Having a national identity is basically asking to get called a nazi (or a hooligan) nowadays, depending on where you are, and most of those places are in yurop. Like, I get it, nazi germany fucking sucked, but get over it, jeez.
@dorsidwarf
Don't think LW is talking about current gen being terrible or not wanting to baby boomers. Thats fine, the problem is actualy being so self centered to the point you care more about the next videogame you're going to play rather than how your society will be when you die, or in the next few decades, even.

Also dis

Quote from: Covenant on July 19, 2016, 03:21:52 pm

What we really need to do is implement social reforms that make it more attractive to be a parent - and that'll take much more than just increasing Child Tax Credit.

Social reforms? Eh, I guess I agree, I just don't see it ever happening. People across the world grow up in loving families, proud of who they are, carrying the torch on - WWII just fucked euros up, breaking their links, don't think there's fixing in that. I mean sure the Chinese repaired a lot of damage they did in the cultural revolution but they've also got a billion people and no mass migration could ever replace them lol
Germany and Sweden have long passed the point where their younguns could maintain majority, and they won't even try because that runs counter to all their school teachings. It's another shrektastic way to end the day

I think I honestly need to check my time privilege
Born too late to be a Tea merchant in Ceylon
Born too early to be a passenger in an interstellar freighter to Alpha Centauri
Born just in time to bear witness to this most fantastic pages of history written

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 08:08:31 pm

I really have to wonder why these are all mutually exclusive

Do you even marxist narratives m8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

If it gets hundreds of people to not be/remain radicalized, I'm not sure how it's retarded.

Also not certain how a lone gunman who had been in Denmark from high school on shows that you should take the tough guy/harsh justice approach to stupid teenagers who resent the system and decide the best way to get back at is by leaving to go to the site of the holy war.

As far as I can tell, vast majority of radicals are pretty damn young. It actually seems basically like joining a gang, except instead of killing other poor people and doing drugs, they get back at all those people they resent, and sometimes do drugs.

I mean, the point I'm tryin' to make about this sorta stuff is basically that if you treat some with hostility, they'll probably get hostile. If you act as though group X is the Enemy, odds are they'll become the Enemy, even if they weren't before. And the worst part is that it's extremely context dependent. If the westerners were super nice helping your parents get here, but then your family's car gets vandalized with slurs, or a classmate starts saying your faith is evil and you get pissy and then the police are investigating your home for terrorism, it might make you upset. Especially if it ends up affecting your life in other ways or you're already having trouble supporting yourself or finding a job or what-have-you. It doesn't need to happen to every kid, it just has to happen to enough that they can start a group to discuss the shit they've had to put up with. Maybe that group doesn't discuss it in a healthy manner (as I'll put it). They start seeing recruitment videos, psyching themselves up, getting ready to fulfill what they now think of as a holy calling. This doesn't even have to be going to fight. It could be helping out in refugee camps for their fellow Muslims. It could be helping the wounded after skirmishes. If you treat them as ISIS fighters and say 'you are not welcome in your old community', odds are they'll stay. Maybe that join, maybe they just help people, maybe they get shot.

But a different approach might just reduce the number of people who feel like they can't be a part of the community.

Young men with completely different culture and language and no family with minimal prospects in strained social welfare system is another difficulty entirely.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 08:08:31 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

The trade-offs society seems to make are rather interesting to consider.

Diversity, or stability?
Innovation and creativity, or community and cooperation?
Liberty, or equality?
Privacy, or safety?
Efficiency, or variety?
Corruption, or abuse?
Disease, or pollution?

I really have to wonder why these are all mutually exclusive

When did I say that were mutually exclusive? You can have a pretty good combination of both. It can be small losses in one for large gains in the other. It's at the extremes where that typically reverses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2016, 10:51:41 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

When did I say that were mutually exclusive? You can have a pretty good combination of both. It can be small losses in one for large gains in the other. It's at the extremes where that typically reverses.

The most free countries tend to have lower income inequality, why pollution literally causes disease, corruption and abuse are near synonymous, innovation vs. cooperation doesn't make sense, efficiency vs variety doesn't make sense, only ones I'm inclined to agree on are diversity vs. stability and privacy vs. safety

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 11:27:13 pm

Freedom to discriminate versus equal outcomes. We've traded rotten food and plagues for preservatives and containers that end up in the trash. Oversight gets corrupted, free reign gets abused. It's easier to produce a lot of one good efficiently than it is to produce a variety of goods (also known as the Walmart Hypothesis(yes that name was probably made up)).

Innovation vs. Cooperation one is the one I'm most certain of, actually. Competition breeds innovation, creativity. It doesn't breed community within the competitors. Community creates cooperation, and a certain stagnancy, but effectiveness with what they have to work with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 21, 2016, 12:20:36 am

I believe Isis has lost in the middle east, as the radical islamics who oppose the blasphemous shit Isis does ie bombing mecca, outnumber the Isis radicals, they'll be driven to the only place that Isis radicals will be tolerated which is Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on July 21, 2016, 02:09:05 am

Quote from: MarcAFK on July 21, 2016, 12:20:36 am

I believe Isis has lost in the middle east, as the radical islamics who oppose the blasphemous shit Isis does ie bombing mecca, outnumber the Isis radicals, they'll be driven to the only place that Isis radicals will be tolerated which is Europe.

Bad guys never lose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 08:18:32 pm

In German population news, "Babies Welcome loan" in which German mothers are given interest free loans to support raising children opposed by every single party because that's racist and short term (what) thinking, Germany must have diversity. My favourite is the one who would be ok with it if it also helped migrant families grow even larger lol (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8EQFbqu-8)

That's a really retarded way to do child support, which I guess was the main objection (Ok, I only watched the first four other parliamentary). Also, I think the part they though the Völkisch part was when he then said "That way, we can keep all the foreigners out".

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 05:22:44 pm

Spoiler: To Sheb (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sheb on July 20, 2016, 01:27:24 am

I said he was de-Muslimifying France.

At that ratio he's not

Quote

Yes he is. Git gud at math.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 05:22:44 pm

-You skipped the whole part
-Complain about numbers

I literally included all the numbers, all of them
You skipped them

I read them.
God's sakes man I've done all the work getting these numbers, I can't make you read them for you xD
P.s. read the Reuters news, they're uncertain whether that article counts the asylum seekers, which was measured at those who claimed asylum was 1,500,000 - not including those who weren't logged
Not even I have the breekiness to say I ignored all your stats and then complain when I can't find the stats :P

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 05:22:44 pm

[spoiler=To Rolepgeek]

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 03:28:54 pm

Speaking of, I have to ask LW what he thinks about Aarhus and it's approach to deradicalizing it's populace.[/url]

Bringing ISIS fighters back to your streets on purpose is retarded (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copenhagen_shootings)

If you bring former Jihadis to your streets, people that didn't go to Syria will kill people instead?

And when I said I skipped that whole part, I actually re-read it. I just decided not to answer because what you did is post a jumble of number referring to various things, then picking up the largest ones without paying attention to what they mean. Your 1.5 million come from an estimate from Das Bild before the end of 2015. Your 2.1 millions in the influx off all immigrants. It seems to be true that the number of asylum application does not reflect the number of asylum seeker since not all applications could be processed, but I was quoting them because that gives us a number for the proportion of Syrians. (Actually, given the German policy to fast-track people from the Balkans and so on, it probably underestimate the proportion of Syrians.

According to that Reuter piece you posted, (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-idUSKCN0ZU1ZD) 35% of immigrants were from Asia and Africa, or 735,000 people. The number of potential asylum seeker is higher, because of the Serbians, Kosovars and so on (non-EU immigration was 270.000) And that the "raw number", ver 900.000 people left germany last year too, although we sadly don't have breakdown by categories for that number.

Not that I expect much more than a "top kek".

Edit: Actually, I wonder if the difference in application number isn't due to the fact that the Eurostats figures represent first-time applicants, while some of the higher figure you see (the ones around one millions, not the 1.5 to 2 millions figures that are due to mixing migrants categores) are for all asylum claims, including appeals from people who have been turning down.



Edit: Frenman condemned to ten months in jail for reselling objects of the Nice massacre.  (http://www.rtbf.be/info/dossier/attentat-a-nice-un-camion-a-fonce-dans-la-foule-lors-du-14-juillet/detail_nice-10-mois-de-prison-pour-avoir-tente-de-vendre-des-objets-du-massacre-du-14-juillet?id=9358758) Officially condemned for reselling objects that didn't belong to him, he tried to defend himself by saying that the objects belonged to his family, including a ring his mother gave his sister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on July 21, 2016, 03:13:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 06:29:31 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 20, 2016, 06:23:08 pm

The archaeological dig was probbably as accurate as most archaeological digs.
That is, entirely based on conjectures from badly-paid Middle-aged people with bad teeth and unpleasant hats. Who, while extremely skilled and experienced at these conjectures, will still construct an entire settlement with a long history and at least thee wars out of two pots and a skeleton dug up by even-worse-paid graduates.
(When in fact actually Machinitus the trader broke his neck falling off the wagon and was buried at the side of the road with the antique pots he'd been given.
My father spent eight years of his life dedicated to becoming an archaeologist,graduated, spent one summer on a dig site with Phil Hardy ( the Time Team one) and immediatly went into finance and IT instead.

One of my life goals is to build my own house to standards that will last 1000 years so I can confuse archaeologists with random bullshit, like spring loaded coffins, shitposts on the walls, fake curses, allusions to household gods that don't exist, wrong descriptions of culture, elaborate fake histories e.t.c.

1000 years later archeologists will be excavating forgotten internet resources and 4chan archives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 03:15:45 am

They'll dig what I'm saying

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 21, 2016, 10:22:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 20, 2016, 07:20:43 am

Quote

Turkey’s controversial President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has sparked mockery and condemnation by defending new powers he wants to give himself as being similar to Adolf Hitler’s.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The fuck?....... seriously? Might be wiser to say 'being similar to Caesar'. Sure, Caesar has his cons and wasn't a saint, but at least he isn't reviled* like Hitler and Stalin**.

*I guess the Catholic Church and Jews may have a different opinion.

**Except in Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2016, 11:59:20 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

Yes he is. Git gud at math.

Git gud at strategy.

Quote from: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

And when I said I skipped that whole part, I actually re-read it. I just decided not to answer because what you did is post a jumble of number referring to various things, then picking up the largest ones without paying attention to what they mean.

You were just pretending to be ignorant lol

Quote from: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

Your 1.5 million come from an estimate from Das Bild before the end of 2015. Your 2.1 millions in the influx off all immigrants.

2.1million is only possibly the influx of all immigrants, cos one size fits all terms yo

Quote from: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

It seems to be true that the number of asylum application does not reflect the number of asylum seeker since not all applications could be processed, but I was quoting them because that gives us a number for the proportion of Syrians. (Actually, given the German policy to fast-track people from the Balkans and so on, it probably underestimate the proportion of Syrians.

*Not including fake syrians

Quote from: Sheb on July 21, 2016, 02:19:12 am

Not that I expect much more than a "top kek".

Top lol?

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

If it gets hundreds of people to not be/remain radicalized, I'm not sure how it's retarded.

Taking Syrian fighters home on purpose, not prosecuting them, then allowing them to walk on your streets.
What part of that makes sense? How the bloody hell does it help people not be radicalized by letting jihad heroes walk freely with the support of the government? Ahahahaha

That's just the practicality of things, I find it hilarious that if you're a Dane, you can go to Syria, join in jolly ethnic cleansing, partake in sex slaves and destruction of the relics of ancient civilizations and their living remnants - then go home to Denmark with your military training, organizational skills and the conviction of one who has killed for what they believe in - and face no repercussions, no justice, no security.
In the UK we've had at least 800 who've gone to Syria to have jolly war crimes and shit, half of which have come home, 200 of which are dead or convicted. Source, Beeb. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985) This is a problem that requires excellent policing, unfortunately our legal system is quite constrained in what it can do. We can't for example strip someone of their citizenship if they join ISIS, and we can't keep a prisoner for too long in solitary confinement so every now and then they are allowed to mingle with prison populations and convert inmates. These are things I am unhappy about, but at the very least we have all the legal powers needed to detain returning fighters, convict them if they return with evidence of their crimes or evidence is found through intelligence efforts, and as well, the further monitoring of them should the few who remain unconvicted attempt to set up networks in the UK. No part of this system relies on the good behaviour of someone who spent the summer slaughtering infidels.

Also by god, the dank memes never stop. Convicted terrorist who set up jihadi recruiting websites back in London after release from US prison.
His family said: 'Our lives will be enriched by his return.'
 (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/convicted-terrorist-who-set-up-jihadi-recruiting-websites-back-in-london-after-release-from-us-10399599.html)
I didn't even know our police were targeting their support network too
Good job police

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

Also not certain how a lone gunman who had been in Denmark from high school on shows that you should take the tough guy/harsh justice approach to stupid teenagers who resent the system and decide the best way to get back at is by leaving to go to the site of the holy war.

What in the actual fuck, is this what counts for harsh justice now? How in the actual fuck is prosecuting people for war crimes harsh, whilst letting them walk freely fair?
"Teenagers who resent the system and decide the best way to get back" hahaha no, you've got to be joking. These aren't anarchists, they're jihadists. They tend to be well-educated, well-off and go to fight for ISIS because they believe in establishing a global caliphate.

Fucking hell, we prosecute British soldiers for less, but as soon as it's Muslims you can get away with genocide and prosecution becomes harsh

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

As far as I can tell, vast majority of radicals are pretty damn young. It actually seems basically like joining a gang, except instead of killing other poor people and doing drugs, they get back at all those people they resent, and sometimes do drugs.

This post gave me cancer

These are not sharia patrol, these are ISIS fighters and operatives.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

I mean, the point I'm tryin' to make about this sorta stuff is basically that if you treat some with hostility, they'll probably get hostile.

Westerners have so little concept of self-preservation that they will extend a hand of friendship to someone who wants to kill them, who has already killed those like them and announced they want them dead.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

If you act as though group X is the Enemy, odds are they'll become the Enemy, even if they weren't before.

Well ISIS were never going to be our friend, so nothing of value was lost.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

And the worst part is that it's extremely context dependent. If the westerners were super nice helping your parents get here, but then your family's car gets vandalized with slurs, or a classmate starts saying your faith is evil and you get pissy and then the police are investigating your home for terrorism, it might make you upset.

Sorry friend, but marxism is simply inadequate here. I think Vilanat was right in that it is incredibly hard to explain to Westerners why people are willing to fight and die for what they believe in, cos they don't really have an equivalent, nothing they believe in that much.
From the Beeb:
Farzana Ameen (39), left with her husband Imran Ameen (40) and five children to join ISIS. She told relatives whatever she was doing was for the best for their children. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11931632/Mother-feared-to-have-taken-children-to-Syria-said-she-was-doing-what-was-best-for-them.html) They were not discriminated against, because they lived in areas that are almost exclusively Muslim that show hostility to Christians who work or live there. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575402/I-feel-like-an-alien-in-my-home-town.html) The Council of Bradford Mosques also leading the British attempt to extend blasphemy laws, ban the satanic verses or force an apology from Salman Rushdie, who had to be put under the protection of British police due to a fatwa issued against him. His book was burned in his stead. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7883308.stm)
Mohammed Fakhri Al-Khabass (25), a British-Palestinian medical student, the son of a Muslim doctor, by 2011 he took over the University's Islamic Cultural Association (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33502534) and under his leadership, started pushing for stricter Islam and eventually recruited 16 British students to join ISIS in Iraq and Syria before joining them there himself. He was living in Sudan, where the constitution is proudly 100 percent Islamic without communism or secularism or Western influences, to set an example for its neighbours. (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sudan-constitution-idUKBRE8660IB20120707)
Rehan Ameen (30), brother to Imran Ameen, joined for reasons unknown. Lived in Bradford.
Mohammed Saleem Mohamed Ahmed El-Raba'a (23), medical student, joined ISIS after being recruited by Fakhri Al-Khabass.
Ayman Siddig Abdel-Aziz (21), medical student, same as Saleem.
Amier Mamoun Sidahmed Elawad (20), same as Saleem.
Mohamed Adil Bashir Ageed (22), about to graduate from Med school, same as Saleem.
Ibrahim Adil Bashir Ageed (20), same as Saleem.
Sugra Dawood (34), eldest of three sisters who left with her five children (in total, their group had 9 children traveling with them) who went to pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia. Instead of going home to Bradford, went to Iraq and Syria. She ignored her husband's appeal to come home with their kids.
Zohra Dawood (33), Khajida Dawood (30), went with Sugra.
Rajia Khanom (21), part of an extended family of 12, went to Bangladesh for a holiday but failed to return home to Luton, instead saying they felt safer than they ever felt before living in ISIS's territory.
Mohammed Zayd Hussain (25), Mohammed Toufique Hussain (19), Roshanara Begum (24), Mohammed Saleh Hussain (26), Sheida Khanam (27), Mohammed Abil Kashem Saker (31), Minera Khatun (53), Muhammed Abdul Mannan (75), the extended family of Rajia. A quarter of Luton is Muslim (http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6275157&c=luton&d=13&e=62&g=6394327&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1469115128702&enc=1&dsFamilyId=2479&nsjs=true&nsck=false&nssvg=false&nswid=1536) and is famed for having been the birthplace of Salafi jihadist groups (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muhajiroun), the same which produced the terrorist who beheaded one of our soldiers on our streets.
Deqo Osman (18), got into University and applied for a student loan, upon which point he use the loan money not to pay for Uni fees, but to fly to Syria because he wanted to live in an Islamic Utopia. (http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-11-13/teenager-blew-student-loan-to-travel-to-join-islamic-state/) Deqo Osman flew back on the behest of his father after having stayed in an ISIS safehouse, upon his return to the UK he was detained and has been sentenced 5 years in prison, the court were lenient because he had an IQ of 65. (http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/crime-court/jailed_willesden_teenager_who_flew_to_syria_to_join_isis_1_4315590)
Swaleh Mohammed (19), Ibrahim Amouri (18), Khalid Abdul-Rahman (19), friends from mosque who traveled with Deqo Osman to join ISIS, but returned and were prosecuted. Their IQs were not small like Deqo. Mohammed Osama Badri (age unknown), one of the med students recruited by Saleem. Rowan Kamal Zine El-Abidine (age unknown), one of the med students who ran the Islamic Cultural Association with Saleem, running the branch for women's activities. Tasneem Suliman (age unknown), another med student born from doctors who went with Saleem. Husham El-Sheikh (age unknown), med student who left with Saleem.
Lena Mamoun Abdelgadir (19), daughter of a surgeon who grew up in East Anglia, as a med student went off with Saleem. Described as furiously bright by her teachers. Lojain Abusibah (age unknown), had graduated from medicine when he joined ISIS with Saleem.
Tamir Ahmed Abusibah (24), graduated from medicine when he joined ISIS with Saleem. Nada Sami Khider (age unknown), made propaganda videos in Syria urging British medical students to come to Syria to work in ISIS hospitals.
Ahmed Sami Khider (24), med graduate, went to grammar school, son of a doctor, told those in the West: "All you are doing is sitting in the West in the comfort of your homes. Use your skills and come here."
Hassan Munshi (17), Britain's youngest suicide bomber, his parents believed some kind of peer pressure (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-33129806) caused him to die for ISIS. Police had this statement: "But the police can't arrest everyone - and evidence shows it is difficult to bring someone back from the edge, once they are radicalised." But the Danes are bringing their fighters back and allowing them to walk their streets anyways. I digress.
Shamima Begum (15), Khadiza Sultana (16), Amira Abase (15), three straight-A students who went to Syria. From Tower Hamlets, the only local authority in England where Muslims are the largest population, there's not much to say about their story, so have the Guardian talking about how Jihadi brides aren't oppressed and join for the same reasons men do, to think otherwise is sexist and that is the most important concern here. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/04/jihadi-brides-arent-oppressed-they-join-isis-for-the-same-reasons-men-do)
Abu Zayd al-Britani (age unknown, real name unknown), speaks with a British accent and says he's Al-Britani.
Ibrahim Kabir Sadik (24), converted to Islam who worked as a teacher after graduating with an economics degree, lived in London. Not much else to say about him other than he was linked to some men who tried to defraud English pensioners of £1,000,000. Sharmeena Begum (14), hometown London, was studying for GCSEs before leaving East London to join ISIS.
Hamayun Tariq (age unknown) a car mechanic from the West Midlands whose had his social media accounts repeatedly suspended because he uses them to post bomb making instructions. He joined ISIS already a veteran warrior who previously fought for the Taliban, now teaching his students how to repair vehicles and manufacture IEDs.
Jack Letts (18), also known as Jihadi Jack, is the first Englishman on this list. His parents said he was mentally ill, and Jack denies he is a member of ISIS. Nonetheless he says he fears prosecution if he returns and his motive is he wants to spread the word of Allah, take down the Syrian government and believes the USA is trying to exterminate Muslims one by one. From a middle class Christian English family in Oxford.
Aisha Tariq (30), left London with her four kids and her husband.
Her husband Dhar (31) was an advocate for global jihad and released a video showing him executing alleged spies for working with "the crusader coalition." His video warns that those who do not turn to Islam or do not return to it will lose in this life and the next, before ordering a child to press the detonation trigger.
Samya Dirie (17), Yusra Hussien (15), the former from London and the latter from Bristol, told parents they were prospecting at Universities but took their passports with them, at which point their parents contacted police. Appealing to his daughter through the media her father, Abidirashiid Saciid Dirie said: "You are after paradise by going there, but you will achieve paradise by pleasing your parents." Neither have returned, and it is suspected Yusra has gotten married.
Sajid Aslam (34), supply teacher who went to fight for ISIS. His wife Lorna Moore (originally a northern Irish protestant) was a part of the 'Babies for ISIS' group and was convicted before she could fly to Syria to join her husband.
Issam Abuanza (36) from Sheffield, worked in the NHS as a doctor for 7 years before joining ISIS to work as a doctor for them. Dr. Abuanza had this to say about the live incineration of the captured Jordanian:“I would’ve liked for them to burn him extremely slowly and I could have treated him again so we could have torched him once more.” Abu Waqqas al-Albani (age unknown, real name unknown), he describes himself as Al-Albani and his hometown was London. Joined ISIS and made videos calling for a Brussels style attack in London, and videos encouraging suicide attacks in London.
I just picked these from top down, left to right, got bored and stopped researching each individual profile, search the rest if you want more. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985) (I am probably on all the watchlists now lol).

The takehome is Western progressive strategy has made everything worse, and will continue to make everything worse.
Contrary to popular views - religious practice, health and social inequalities, discrimination, and political engagement showed no links. What increases risk is youth, wealth, and being in full-time education. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/274292.php) Many of our most extreme radicals, willing to die and kill for ISIS, come from areas where discrimination targets Christians, Jews, Hindus Slags, Gays, Drunks, Apostates and so on, and they live well-off with no financial worry. And Germany invited millions of young fundamentalist Sunni men who they're now educating and are counting on to run their country as Germans die out. I'm damn excited at what the hell's going to happen in Germany.

It's funny, I recall watching a BBC interview of Enoch Powell some years ago, where they asked him about what made an Englishman, and what made ethnic Britons of their homelands and not of Britain. He said it wasn't about citizenship or papers, and summed it up as thus: An Englishman born to missionaries in China is not Chinese until he forsakes England, until he does so, England is his home even if he's never seen it. I think the allure of the Caliphate is even stronger than that of the English to England. The English identity is a national one, one regardless of morality. A religious identity is one that sets a moral bar, one of the highest ones to set. To quote Awlaki: "just sick of life in land of kuffar."

If the conclusion ameribros find is that yuropoors are not toleran and progresiv enough, failure will continue to be the result and yuropoors will be europast

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2016, 09:46:11 pm

Young men with completely different culture and language and no family with minimal prospects in strained social welfare system is another difficulty entirely.

Same difficulty, different problem
To that we are in full agreement

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 21, 2016, 06:38:35 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 21, 2016, 10:22:33 am

*I guess the Catholic Church and Jews may have a different opinion.

Huh? I don't get it, pls xplehn.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 06:52:03 pm

Both were persecuted by Roman emperors

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 21, 2016, 06:55:16 pm

But not by ol' C, if I remember correctly... Would've been hard for him to persecute Christians, for purely temporal reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2016, 06:56:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 06:52:03 pm

Both were persecuted by Roman emperors

How would it follow they would hate Caesar then? #notallemperors

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 21, 2016, 07:03:08 pm

I thought it was Tiberius and Caligula who did most of the persecuting, though :u

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 21, 2016, 07:25:49 pm

Also Nero and Julian

I think Domitian too? I forget.

Julius and Augustus did basically 0, closest we get would be Titus sacking Jerusalem which pissed off the Jews but that was ages after the Caesars

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 07:33:36 pm

All roman emperors were Caesar. The salute ave caesar persisted long after Julius croaked. The words Kaiser (de), Tsar/Czar (ru) and keizer (nl) stem directly from it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 21, 2016, 07:36:32 pm

They were also Augustus, but Augustus means Augustus, not every Augustus

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2016, 07:37:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 07:33:36 pm

All roman emperors were Caesar. The salute ave caesar persisted long after Julius croaked. The words Kaiser (de), Tsar/Czar (ru) and keizer (nl) stem directly from it.

Also Emperor from Imperator

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2016, 08:46:36 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 21, 2016, 07:33:36 pm

All roman emperors were Caesar. The salute ave caesar persisted long after Julius croaked. The words Kaiser (de), Tsar/Czar (ru) and keizer (nl) stem directly from it.

Gaius Julius Caesar (not to be confused with Octavius Julius Caesar Augustus) was deified during the reign of his nephew/adopted son. Also Caesar was never augustus (emperor coming from imperator - general (which he totally was)), or even princeps. He was just the dictator of the SPQR (which, by the by, was an actual position regulated in their laws for times of crysis). Salute a god, all day erry day.

He denies kingship (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D61%3Asection%3D4)

Et tu? (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D62%3Asection%3D5)

He gets rekt (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D66%3Asection%3D7)

Sic semper tyrannis (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D67%3Asection%3D1)

Some random dude gets mobbed (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244%3Achapter%3D68%3Asection%3D3)

Are these relevant to the discussion? Probably not. I like Plutarch though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:30:32 am

In Amsterdam, a man jumped from a window with a baby in his arms. They both died on impact. Police have evacuated a block of houses surrounding the location and a bomb squad is looking for explosives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 22, 2016, 07:33:10 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:30:32 am

In Amsterdam, a man jumped from a window with his baby in his arms.

:o Why?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 07:40:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:30:32 am

In Amsterdam, a man jumped from a window with his baby in his arms. They both died on impact. Police have evacuated a block of houses surrounding the location and a bomb squad is looking for explosives.

I'm not really sure how a murder-suicide translates into a bomb threat. Guess they're still on edge after the bombings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:42:26 am

No idea. Police claim it seems likely that he jumped and was not pushed. They can't confirm that he was the father of the baby or not. An arrest squad is on site, bomb squad is on site, and a police helicopter is circling the area. That's all the news my paper can give me so far.

Gay Pride starts tomorrow, so I suppose police is on edge.
http://pride.amsterdam/ (http://pride.amsterdam/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 22, 2016, 07:43:08 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:30:32 am

In Amsterdam, a man jumped from a window with his baby in his arms.

Cult activity?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 07:45:01 am

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 07:40:36 am

I'm not really sure how a murder-suicide translates into a bomb threat. Guess they're still on edge after the bombings.

That's kinda what I meant yesterday when I exaggeratingly said that the terrorists have won, and destroyed our civilisation. It won't be long now until a bomb squad is called for every minor misdemeanor. (Not that I'd call this one a minor misdemeanor. Jumping from a window with a baby is a terrible act).

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 22, 2016, 07:43:08 am

Cult activity?

Unlikely. Cults aren't really a thing here in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 22, 2016, 07:47:22 am

Maybe there really was a bomb, and the guy was trying to save the baby.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 08:08:07 am

The military has arrived on site now too. There's dozens of cops, soldiers, an arrest team and the bomb squad at the site. No further announcements.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 22, 2016, 08:17:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 08:08:07 am

The military has arrived on site now too. There's dozens of cops, soldiers, an arrest team and the bomb squad at the site. No further announcements.

#Flashmob (Please do not do it.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 08:28:46 am

A resident reports that he was gaming, and then the police came and told him to evacuate his house immediatly because of explosion danger. He says that a while before this, he had heard people shouting "cancer mongloid retard" in the street below. He hopes there's no bomb, because he had to leave his cat behind.

The street is filled with ambulances and fire trucks now too.

A handgrenade has been found in the building and the bomb squad is trying to neutralize it.

Starts to look like what DJ said, guy jumped from the window to save himself and baby. People from the neighborhood say that the child's mother lived there, the man didn't. But "he always was so sweet and happy with his child when he was there. He walked the buggy with a big smile"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 09:21:43 am

Our Dutch government and justice department have decided that they will immediatly stop extraditing anyone to Turkey 'for an undetermined period of time'.

High judges also call to ignore international treaties that force the Dutch justice department to cooperate with Turkish investigations. Judge commissionar Ronny van de Water says "It is unacceptable that judges are blamed for supporting the coup and fired en masse like this. I know that according to international treaties we are supposed to cooperate. But I also have a conscience, and enough is enough".

I guess that means our government will no longer support the refugee deal with Turkey either.

In other news the bomb squad has managed to safely dismantle the handgrenade and is now searching the appartment for any other explosives. Police just blocked view of the regional news channel's live feed with fences clad in large black screens. So I guess we'll get no more news for a while.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 09:44:17 am

Tbh international law forces you to anyways

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 22, 2016, 09:45:12 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 09:21:43 am

Police just blocked view of the regional news channel's live feed with fences clad in large black screens. So I guess we'll get no more news for a while.

Dodgy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 09:45:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 09:44:17 am

Tbh international law forces you to anyways

I think the judges will say "sue me I'm giving you jack shit whaddcha gun do", or a more diplomatic "so you want us to share info on behalf of your case. <searching> sorry, nope, we have nothing"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 09:51:26 am

The man's mother / the baby's grandmother has been found dead in the appartment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 22, 2016, 10:37:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 09:45:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 09:44:17 am

Tbh international law forces you to anyways

I think the judges will say "sue me I'm giving you jack shit whaddcha gun do", or a more diplomatic "so you want us to share info on behalf of your case. <searching> sorry, nope, we have nothing"

Yeah, there's more than one way to be uncooperative than just outright saying you won't comply.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 22, 2016, 11:12:22 am

If Netherlands broke the international law like that, who would enforce it and how? It's not like you can effectively embargo a single EU country, and embargoing all of EU is economic suicide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 11:45:42 am

All I can say to the man jumping out of not-burning building with baby, then bomb squad over a grenade (a grenade seems easy to deal with, but what do I know), then woman found dead in apartment is..... Huh? I got what Martinuzz said, it's just the whole situation seems confusing.

What's the root of it, tensions between Turkish groups?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:48:30 am

Newspaper reports now that the 11-month old baby's mother arrived at the grandmother's house to collect the baby. Inside she was met by her ex husband who had a grenade. She says he dragged her into a room.... Then she got away, and the ex husband jumped from the window with the child. The mother says she doesn't know how the grandmother died.

Dunno. Smells fishy. I'd keep the lady in custody or at least tell her to not leave the country. She 'got away' without taking her child while under threat of a grenade? Really?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:57:02 am

Shots have just been fired in a shopping mall in Munich. There's reports of multiple dead, other reports of multiple wounded. Police have responded in large numbers and are cordonning off the area.

https://www.rt.com/news/352727-munich-reports-shooting-running/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 22, 2016, 11:58:44 am

Saw an uncofirmed report about another incident in a cafe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:59:32 am

This getting ridiculous. We've gone from a few terrorist attacks per year to a few per week in Europe over the past month.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 12:08:00 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:59:32 am

This getting ridiculous. We've gone from a few terrorist attacks per year to a few per week in Europe over the past month.

Just means that ISIS is getting desperate. But yes, it's ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2016, 12:09:39 pm

Could also mean Yooro security services aren't very good at their jobs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 12:12:13 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 12:08:00 pm

Just means that ISIS is getting desperate. But yes, it's ridiculous.

It means that ISIS has succeeded in it's plan to get sleepers into place all over Europe better than the Soviet Union ever managed to plant sleepers within NATO or vice versa.

Police has confirmed multiple death. There's still some confusion over numbers. One source reports 15 dead, another reports 10 dead. Apparently an armed man entered a cafe in the shopping mall and opened fire.

Let's hope this is not the start of a Paris 2.0 multi-attack.

Police have asked the citizens of Munich to stay indoors.

Police say they suspect there's more than one gunman. None have been caught yet. People are urged to leave the streets on Twitter by the police.

Apparently, people have been shot at a railway station as well o_0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 12:42:44 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:59:32 am

This getting ridiculous. We've gone from a few terrorist attacks per year to a few per week in Europe over the past month.

French security foiled a number of terror plots planned before Euro 2016 (http://www.espnfc.com/european-championship/story/2914564/security-foiled-deadly-terrorist-attack-before-euro-2016-france-pm-manuel-valls), 10 Jul
84 killed by Mohamed Laohouaiej-Bouhel on behalf of ISIS, like the Bataclan tortures, police try to suppress information surrounding it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36864440): "This is the first time we are asked to destroy evidence.", 14 Jul
At the vigil for the Nice attack, man arrested for threatening everyone else with a machete (http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/15/man-with-machete-arrested-at-nice-victims-remembrance-vigil-6009597/), 15 Jul
Mother and three children stabbed for being scantily dressed in France (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-fighting-life-after-mum-8448196), 19 Jul
Six attacked with axe and knife in train by Afghan asylum seeker on behalf of ISIS (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909), 19 Jul
Gunfire and explosions in Amiens, police don't find the culprit (https://francais.rt.com/france/24058-amiens--arrestation-apres-possibles), 19 Jul

I don't know if there's more but I don't speak French or German and so I'm gonna wait for English news to catch up

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 12:12:13 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 12:08:00 pm

Just means that ISIS is getting desperate. But yes, it's ridiculous.

It means that ISIS has succeeded in it's plan to get sleepers into place all over Europe better than the Soviet Union ever managed to plant sleepers within NATO or vice versa.

"Look, I'm going to break down why you're wrong on every point and then I'm going to stop arguing with you because you're obviously delighted at the prospect of thousands of hidden sleeper agents and I don't need to ruin your fun. If the pair had killed for Satan it wouldn't prove Satan was infiltrating refugees. Your grip on reality needs tightening. It's funny that you actually believe the propaganda when the logistics of it make no sense whatsoever. The Lebanese minister said he had no facts, just his "gut feeling" that it was happening. Pro-tip: don't just google for articles that support your bizarre world-view and paste them here without reading them first. Fanatics are going to be fanatic. No relevance to the refugee stuff. Read Claudine's comment in the article. If this is their plan, then they're a more incompetent than usual jihadi. Yes, like Britain there are individuals who successfully manage to leave the country to fight for ISIS and some of them even manage to return. This isn't news and it doesn't mean ISIS has a mass policy of infiltrating refugees which is the bizarre and paranoid article of belief that I'm specifically objecting to. This just shows what a ludicrous plan infiltrating refugees actually is, as if they take anything actually useful for being a terrorist they're easily spotted. Five idiots at the Bulgarian border is not equal to '4,000 ISIS fighters' or '1/50 refugees' or whatever bullshit figure your cleaving to."

^^^^
Was the level of response I got when I posted news of ISIS fighters coming home to set up domestic networks, it's a nice snapshot of how denial has consistently meant Europeans have only started to act once everything was too late and it was out of their power to do so

I like this aside I made in response:

"P.s. if ISIS is not as uneducated and idiotic as you believe, you will not find them - especially with no border checks, you will never know. The reason why I keep posting examples from Britain is because Britain still has border checks and one of the greatest security bureaus in the world, both internal and external and with the English channel separating us from the continent giving us more control to the vetting process of refugees. What we can't catch, you sure as hell won't - and what we do, is a blip of what you won't. So either make like a South East Goat and open the floodgates of heaven to this or wait for fireworks time."

That was just a year ago
Now is fireworks time, only question is who succeeds in the future, what will become of the jihadi networks when ISIS dies in Iraq and Syria, and how many more will die
I think it's a major sign of things to come in France that the French were no longer sad about being killed, but angry (http://time.com/4409765/nice-attack-political-fallout-sarkozy-estrosi/)
At least it's never too late for damage control

I don't have jokes to make so have news on the motive of the Alps attacker (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/21/dont-scratch-your-thigh-in-front-of-my-wife-man-told-husband-of/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 12:55:33 pm

There's reports of a second attack at a subway station in the center of Munich, near Karlzplatz, 5km away from the first shooting sites.

EDIT police says the reported shooting at the subway is a false alarm. People at Karlzplatz were panicking and crying for no apparent reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 22, 2016, 01:00:24 pm

Allahuakhbar und guten abend, meine herren?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 01:07:31 pm

All public transportation has been halted and taxi drivers have been forbidden from taking any passengers by Munich police, since the gunman / gunmen are still at large.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 01:19:05 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 22, 2016, 01:13:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 12:42:44 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 11:59:32 am

This getting ridiculous. We've gone from a few terrorist attacks per year to a few per week in Europe over the past month.

French security foiled a number of terror plots planned before Euro 2016 (http://www.espnfc.com/european-championship/story/2914564/security-foiled-deadly-terrorist-attack-before-euro-2016-france-pm-manuel-valls), 10 Jul
84 killed by Mohamed Laohouaiej-Bouhel on behalf of ISIS, like the Bataclan tortures, police try to suppress information surrounding it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36864440): "This is the first time we are asked to destroy evidence.", 14 Jul
At the vigil for the Nice attack, man arrested for threatening everyone else with a machete (http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/15/man-with-machete-arrested-at-nice-victims-remembrance-vigil-6009597/), 15 Jul
Mother and three children stabbed for being scantily dressed in France (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-fighting-life-after-mum-8448196), 19 Jul
Six attacked with axe and knife in train by Afghan asylum seeker on behalf of ISIS (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36832909), 19 Jul
Gunfire and explosions in Amiens, police don't find the culprit (https://francais.rt.com/france/24058-amiens--arrestation-apres-possibles), 19 Jul

You're missing that RAF guy who was nearly abducted while out jogging in... Norfolk, I think? Yesterday or the day before.

The usual apologists will be crawling out to do their routine, no doubt. It's getting pretty old and hackneyed at this point.

Your bullshit has gotten pretty old, too?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 01:27:29 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 01:19:05 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 22, 2016, 01:13:40 pm

You're missing that RAF guy who was nearly abducted while out jogging in... Norfolk, I think? Yesterday or the day before.
The usual apologists will be crawling out to do their routine, no doubt. It's getting pretty old and hackneyed at this point.

Your bullshit has gotten pretty old, too?

Everything Covenant says checks out (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36853106)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 01:29:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 01:27:29 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 01:19:05 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 22, 2016, 01:13:40 pm

You're missing that RAF guy who was nearly abducted while out jogging in... Norfolk, I think? Yesterday or the day before.
The usual apologists will be crawling out to do their routine, no doubt. It's getting pretty old and hackneyed at this point.

Your bullshit has gotten pretty old, too?

Everything Covenant says checks out (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-36853106)

That's not what I was talking about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 01:47:22 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 01:29:56 pm

That's not what I was talking about.

In which case it seems like you're talking about nothing and are calling someone bullshit for no reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:13:24 pm

Keep it civil please wolfhunter, no calling bullshit just for the sake of calling bullshit. At least say what exactly you are calling bullshit, and give your arguments for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 02:26:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:13:24 pm

Keep it civil please wolfhunter, no calling bullshit just for the sake of calling bullshit. At least say what exactly you are calling bullshit, and give your arguments for it.

I'm calling bullshit on him preemptively accusing anyone who disagrees with his opinions of being an apologist for radical Islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:30:58 pm

As far as I can tell he doesn't. Unless you think you fall uder the category of 'usual apologists' yourself.
Personally I think you're taking this one too personal.



In other news, germany is flying in helicopters with elite border patrol unit GSG9 on board to lock down Munich, as 3 gunmen are still not found.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:44:36 pm

At least the terrorists have a fine choice of places to crash for the night, once they ditch their guns.
Munich residents have launched a Twitter initiative #OffeneTür (OpenDoor) to offer shelter for the night for whomever is stuck in Munich because of the events.

#DumbAsses


EDIT: Heh. The police just reported that "3 dangerous gunmen are at large but there is no indication it has any relation to islamic terror". Six dead confirmed, possibly more, plus unknown number injured.


Heh. It could be the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion). Three of it's members have been going on a armed robbery spree the past few months. Police think they're trying to amass capital so they can keep up their underground lifestyle after their retirement age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 02:45:30 pm

Seems like shades of Mumbai here. Or maybe Paris would be a better analogy.

Also, being one of the Americans here, I'm not sure what wolfhunter is calling out as BS here, and yeah, let's keep it civil in here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 02:47:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:44:36 pm

At least the terrorists have a fine choice of places to crash for the night, once they ditch their guns.
Munich residents have launched a Twitter initiative #OffeneTür (OpenDoor) to offer shelter for the night for whomever is stuck in Munich because of the events.

#DumbAsses


EDIT: Heh. The police just reported that "3 dangerous gunmen are at large but there is no indication it has any relation to islamic terror"

I'm sure they already have their own designated safehouses to go to, no need to risk holing up in some random persons house.

http://www.politico.eu/article/munich-shooting-live-blog-germany-attack/#liveblog-entry-829035

If it's not ISIS, then I wonder who. Mumbai style stuff is up Al Quaedas alley.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 03:05:10 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 02:30:58 pm

As far as I can tell he doesn't. Unless you think you fall uder the category of 'usual apologists' yourself.
Personally I think you're taking this one too personal.

As far as I can tell, he's using 'usual apologists' to refer to anyone that says that maybe not all Muslims are ISIS sympathisers or extremists, which is not at all being an apologist.



Anyway, the Germans are apparently bringing in reinforcements from Austria, now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 03:52:43 pm

German police are now saying that the death toll has risen to eight.

Edit: Nine, now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 03:57:12 pm

Nine bodies have been found now. There's some rumours that one of the shooters is amongst the dead. Weekly magazine Focus reports hearing from police sources that one of the shooters killed himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 03:59:07 pm

On the politico liveblog, they say that theres another body, but they're not sure if it's related or not.

Also, on the CNN liveblog, an earlier post says to people to not post up videos or pictures of their operations to give suspects clues, and yet someone posted some pics of what's going on over there. Granted they're over a half hour old by now, but still....

edit: ninja'd

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:07:27 pm

People from Munich are flooding the internet with cats, just like they did in Brussels.

Voluntary censorship by means of cat is becoming a meme

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 22, 2016, 04:10:02 pm

Not sure i get that cat thing... what does it suppose to mean? that life goes on? terrorists wont win cause we like cute animals?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 04:13:13 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 22, 2016, 04:10:02 pm

Not sure i get that cat thing... what does it suppose to mean? that life goes on? terrorists wont win cause we like cute animals?

They did that in Brussels to keep the terrorists from seeing any pics of the operation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 04:15:58 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 22, 2016, 04:10:02 pm

Not sure i get that cat thing... what does it suppose to mean? that life goes on? terrorists wont win cause we like cute animals?

It's a form of shilling, where you flood information channels with useless information. In this case whenever there's an active manhunt, in order to avoid suspects from being 1 step ahead of police by tracking their movements through social media, twits flood relevant hashtags with cats and other random crap to effectively paralyze attempts to find police via social media. Thus is someone takes a picture of police outside some street, any manhunt suspects would in all likelihood not see such a photo in time, seeing instead hundreds of cats.

What you are referring to... Yeah there exists some retarded shit. There was a while back a completely failed attempt to do an ice bucket challenge against ISIS, only instead of using ice buckets, people smacked eggs on their faces. Somehow putting eggs on their faces would stop massacres, it's the equivalent of putting some country's flag on your facebook to "show solidarity"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:18:34 pm

German authorities are allowing stranded travellers to sleep in train wagons, since there's a great shortage of hotel rooms.
In Mammendorf, Starnberg, Geltendorf, Dachau and Freising, where trains were no longer able to depart, people will be sleeping in train wagons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2016, 04:21:24 pm

I pray for the comfiness of those trains

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 04:24:08 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:18:34 pm

German authorities are allowing stranded travellers to sleep in train wagons, since there's a great shortage of hotel rooms.
In Mammendorf, Starnberg, Geltendorf, Dachau and Freising, where trains were no longer able to depart, people will be sleeping in train wagons.

Accidential irony there..... Of course though, those were freight cars back then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:25:03 pm

I hope there's no elderly jews amongst those stranded in train wagons. Would be ... awkward .

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 22, 2016, 04:28:38 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:25:03 pm

I hope there's no elderly jews amongst those stranded in train wagons. Would be ... awkward .

As we always say when travelling aboard a crowded train in Europe, especially Germany: "Thank god we are already used to suffer on these trains"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2016, 04:36:42 pm

Thank God for jiddische sense of humour

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2016, 07:02:00 pm

Police say that the Munich shooting was carried out by a single gunman who then killed himself (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36873180)

That was pretty anticlimactic, which is almost certainly a good thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2016, 07:09:17 pm

It's not 100% clear whether it was just one person though I don't think. Theres also supposed to be a news conference soon.

And it appears that the guy was a german-iranian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 03:10:31 am

Apparently the police thought there were 3 shooters because people said 2 people got into a car after the shots were fires and sped away. Police have tracked the car and people, and the two had nothing to do with the shooting they were just random people who got in their car.

At least, that's what police says. It's a possibility though that the police just says that, to stop the panic. Can't have 6 million inhabitant cities on lockdown, plus the surrounding cities crammed with people sleeping in trains for over a day, in fear of 2 people with guns.

There's another unconfirmed report about the dead perpetrator. People said he was seen earlier, angrily shouting "I'm german".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 23, 2016, 03:23:35 am

He was shouting i'm German in a response to an actual German dude cursing him for being a foreigner terrorist twat. that he was born and raised in Germany is a very little consolation to those dead kids parents i bet, plus, it is much scarier than if he was just a typical foreign born refugee, since those are easier to track. that it would definitely somehow serve as a counter argument for the anti-refugee/anti-immigrants people is pretty baffling.

Also, if you followed Twitter last night it was easy to notice that this video was the subject of an extremely lengthy propaganda attempt to picture this incident as right-wing related. the "problem" with this propaganda is that even though it has/had no grounds, it already sparked a conspiracy theory that the German police is hiding the fact it was indeed a right winger and the Muslim Iranian was just a patsy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 23, 2016, 03:27:10 am

... wait. So someone in a balcony hears there's shooting, and his reaction is to come out and shout racist slurs at the shooter? Who in turn stops his initial murderous plan to defend that he's German born? Sounds surreal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 03:51:51 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 03:45:54 am

As for the racist slurs, I'd give even less fucks about appearing 'racist' if I'm talking to someone who's currently engaged in shooting up my city.

It's a good thing you don't work as police negotiator. Aggravating the guy with the gun is 101 not done. The guy could just as well have triggered the shooter to shoot more people than he would have otherwise.

EDIT: I did watch that video yesterday. As far as I could tell, the shooting started after the shouting. Heard no shots before it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isthQ8dAJms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isthQ8dAJms)

watched it again. Kinda looks like the shouter aggravated the guy into a shooting frenzy.
He did warn people though that the guy was loading his gun.

Also the transcript link you provided links to a 4chan 404 not found error

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 04:16:31 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 04:05:43 am

why would I want to negotiate with him?

Though if he did have hostages, yeah, we'd have to play nicey-nice until we got an opportunity to take him down.

Why the fuck is killing a man the first option

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 04:24:28 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 04:20:50 am

Because he just shot several children dead?

I mean, fuck, if he throws down his gun and says 'I surrender, please come arrest me', then obviously, arrest him. But if he's still continuing his shooting campaign and resisting arrest, why the fuck would you give him the opportunity to kill more people?

What makes you so sure he had already shot people before the shouting started?
There's no screams or panic to be heard until the shots are fired in the video.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 05:00:03 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan signed his first two presidential decrees, by the power granted to him through martial law.
In his first decree, he ordered 1000 private schools to be shut down.
In the other decree, he increased the maximum term that someone can be held by police without official charges to 30 days.

EDIT: in other news, police reports that the Munich shooter had no ties with IS or terrorism. He was, however, obsessed with US highschool shootings (police found a book on those in his room), and had made statements online glorifying a school shooting in Germany as well.

So looks like this is more of a bullied kid goes full psycho thing, where the kid happened to be half Iranian.

Nine people were killed, of whom 7 teenagers. 27 people were injured of whom 3 are still in critical condition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:23:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 04:20:50 am

Because he just shot several children dead?

Sorry, I forgot that murder carried with it the sentence of summary execution.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 05:00:03 am

EDIT: in other news, police reports that the Munich shooter had no ties with IS or terrorism. He was, however, obsessed with US highschool shootings (police found a book on those in his room), and had made statements online glorifying a school shooting in Germany as well.

Well damn. I blame American media for glorifying the shooters all the bloody time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 05:26:50 am

I kinda still think the balcony shouter made things worse, even if they guy had just shot kids inside McDonalds. I'd say odds are very high that he would have suicided right there and then, on that roof, had the shouter not re-enraged him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:28:52 am

Yeah, maybe. Hard to say, I guess. But good idea or no, balcony dude had some serious balls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:57:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 05:31:26 am

Then again, a female Muslim eyewitness given the pseudonym 'Loretta' by CNN reported that he shouted 'Allahu Ackbar' while shooting, so who knows.

Eh. A singular witness isn't terribly reliable. There's no solid evidence to say he's Muslim. Then we have a crapton of school shooting malarkey, which is a very straightforward explanation.

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 05:31:26 am

Going full #BLM in here with this 'Police shooting a mass shooter in the middle of his rampage in a city is summary execution' stuff.

Haha, what? Please don't compare me to anti-establishment race war enthusiasts, it's very disconcerting.

In any case, I would prefer things to be solved without people getting killed. Killing the bastard, though efficacious, should always be the last resort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 23, 2016, 06:15:32 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:57:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 05:31:26 am

Then again, a female Muslim eyewitness given the pseudonym 'Loretta' by CNN reported that he shouted 'Allahu Ackbar' while shooting, so who knows.

Eh. A singular witness isn't terribly reliable. There's no solid evidence to say he's Muslim. Then we have a crapton of school shooting malarkey, which is a very straightforward explanation.

I'm not going to be terribly surprised if it turns out to be ISIS, but we'll see.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:57:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 05:31:26 am

Going full #BLM in here with this 'Police shooting a mass shooter in the middle of his rampage in a city is summary execution' stuff.

Haha, what? Please don't compare me to anti-establishment race war enthusiasts, it's very disconcerting.

In any case, I would prefer things to be solved without people getting killed. Killing the bastard, though efficacious, should always be the last resort.

When you have a guy going on a rampage through a city, there really isn't any practical option other than shooting him. Trying to capture him alive only places more people at risk, both directly in the capture attempt, and also because it leaves a larger risk of him escaping and attacking more people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 06:31:38 am

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on July 23, 2016, 06:15:32 am

When you have a guy going on a rampage through a city, there really isn't any practical option other than shooting him. Trying to capture him alive only places more people at risk, both directly in the capture attempt, and also because it leaves a larger risk of him escaping and attacking more people.

I don't really have any objections to how this was handled, to be fair. I was mostly put off by perceived trigger-happiness.

Quote from: Covenant on July 23, 2016, 06:07:34 am

in my eyes the lives of the general public and of the police officers themselves are of an immeasurably higher priority than that of someone who has committed/is committing mass murder.

How do you determine the value of a life?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2016, 08:02:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 05:00:03 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan signed his first two presidential decrees, by the power granted to him through martial law.
In his first decree, he ordered 1000 private schools to be shut down.
In the other decree, he increased the maximum term that someone can be held by police without official charges to 30 days.

He's gone full dictator hasn't he.....

Quote

EDIT: in other news, police reports that the Munich shooter had no ties with IS or terrorism. He was, however, obsessed with US highschool shootings (police found a book on those in his room), and had made statements online glorifying a school shooting in Germany as well.

So looks like this is more of a bullied kid goes full psycho thing, where the kid happened to be half Iranian.

Nine people were killed, of whom 7 teenagers. 27 people were injured of whom 3 are still in critical condition.

I agree with you earlier that maybe the guy shouting should have been charged, or probably will from what I know of German laws. I think. So, yeah, I suppose this is looking more like one of those school shooting type things where it's a bullied kid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:20:10 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 23, 2016, 08:02:07 am

I agree with you earlier that maybe the guy shouting should have been charged, or probably will from what I know of German laws. I think. So, yeah, I suppose this is looking more like one of those school shooting type things where it's a bullied kid.

Not saying that the shouter should be charged, can't sue a layman for not being professional :P. Don't think shouting is a crime in itself in Germany.
He could have been sued for racism though, for the rascist terms he used, were it not that the person who he used racist slang against is no longer present amongst the living to be able to press charges.

I was just saying that I think engaging in an obscene shouting contest was not the smartest thing to do in my opinion, and possibly escalated the situation further.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 23, 2016, 08:25:41 am

IDK, it doesn't really stack up. Bullied kids go and shoot up their school, or wherever the people who bullied them tend to be, they don't go and shoot up random people at a random location.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:30:53 am

Quote from: DJ on July 23, 2016, 08:25:41 am

or wherever the people who bullied them tend to be

McDonalds popular place for school kids. Plus some schools in Germany got metal detectors after the Baden-Württemberg shooting in 2009. Dunno about his particular school though.
Besides, it's hard to find kids in school during school summer vacation. At least I think it's still vacation over there in Germany, German forumites please correct me if I am wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:51:49 am

Dutch school teachers are developing new courses for history and civics classes during the currently ongoing summer holiday, in response to the Turkey coup aftermath.
Kids will be asked to discuss questions like "can a country ruled by a single person still be a democracy", and "is a president allowed to singlehandedly 'save democracy' if that means ignoring half of your population (that does not agree with you), accusing them of treason, and systematically censor them, while sending the other half into the streets to cheer for you?".
Lol at the headline the newspaper gave it. "Better start getting used to what you learn in school is not the same as what you're told at home"


People are startled and upset at the influence Erdogan exerts on the Turks living in the Netherlands (there's four hundred thousand Turks on a population of 17 million), and the fanatic response of Erdogan followers. Gulen followers have become the victim of many threats. Hell, in my own block 2 cars were burned down overnight because of it.
A Turkish woman interviewed by the newspaper said that Dutch pro-Erdogan Turks have been putting names and private telephone numbers online from those they know as Gulen supporters. She has been getting phonecalls calling her a traitor and a terrorist, and asking her where she is right now. Her WhatsApp is filled with obscenities like 'cancer whore'.
She says "it's all about the art of forming a community now. We really need to start a dialogue with those who threaten us and call us names."

People here still remember Dutch guys ratting on Dutch resistance and Dutch jews. Ratting on your fellow countrymen is still seen by many as synonimous with fascism. So I'm not surprised that teachers are taking action like this.

tl:dr Erdogan is turning Dutch school teachers into Gulen supporters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2016, 09:08:05 am

Or more like turning Dutch school teachers into supporters of actual democracy, not democracy-in-name-only.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:33:21 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 05:23:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 05:00:03 am

EDIT: in other news, police reports that the Munich shooter had no ties with IS or terrorism. He was, however, obsessed with US highschool shootings (police found a book on those in his room), and had made statements online glorifying a school shooting in Germany as well.

Well damn. I blame American media for glorifying the shooters all the bloody time.

I agree with OW on this one, bullying = mass shooting revenge was manufactured by the media, coincidentally the media making mass shooting sexy didn't help. For example in the Columbine massacre, Harris was more often bullying other people, was a complete psychopath and Klebold was a manic depressive. Already in the first shooting both shooters had different motives

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:51:49 am

Dutch school teachers are developing new courses for history and civics classes during the currently ongoing summer holiday, in response to the Turkey coup aftermath.

Academia = not even once

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:51:49 am

Kids will be asked to discuss questions like "can a country ruled by a single person still be a democracy", and "is a president allowed to singlehandedly 'save democracy' if that means ignoring half of your population (that does not agree with you), accusing them of treason, and systematically censor them, while sending the other half into the streets to cheer for you?".
Lol at the headline the newspaper gave it. "Better start getting used to what you learn in school is not the same as what you're told at home"

Top lel that is a good headline
Also for the sake of contrarianism, countries ruled by one man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk) can still be democracies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew) for as long as they stick to their people's mandate. It's a dangerous line to walk, one defined by success more often than method

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 08:51:49 am

People are startled and upset at the influence Erdogan exerts on the Turks living in the Netherlands (there's four hundred thousand Turks on a population of 17 million), and the fanatic response of Erdogan followers. Gulen followers have become the victim of many threats. Hell, in my own block 2 cars were burned down overnight because of it.
A Turkish woman interviewed by the newspaper said that Dutch pro-Erdogan Turks have been putting names and private telephone numbers online from those they know as Gulen supporters. She has been getting phonecalls calling her a traitor and a terrorist, and asking her where she is right now. Her WhatsApp is filled with obscenities like 'cancer whore'.
She says "it's all about the art of forming a community now. We really need to start a dialogue with those who threaten us and call us names."
People here still remember Dutch guys ratting on Dutch resistance and Dutch jews. Ratting on your fellow countrymen is still seen by many as synonimous with fascism. So I'm not surprised that teachers are taking action like this.
tl:dr Erdogan is turning Dutch school teachers into Gulen supporters

Those aren't Turks, those are Dutch of Turkish descent

Quote from: smjjames on July 23, 2016, 09:08:05 am

Or more like turning Dutch school teachers into supporters of actual democracy, not democracy-in-name-only.

[laughing RAF pilots]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 09:59:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:33:21 am

Those aren't Turks, those are Dutch of Turkish descent

Yes and no. Children born of Turkish parents in the Netherlands get double nationality. One from the Netherlands, one from Turkey. They cannot get rid of the latter, because Turkish law does not recognize voluntary abandonment of nationality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 23, 2016, 10:05:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 09:59:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:33:21 am

Those aren't Turks, those are Dutch of Turkish descent

Yes and no. Children born of Turkish parents in the Netherlands get double nationality. One from the Netherlands, one from Turkey. They cannot get rid of the latter, because Turkish law does not recognize voluntary abandonment of nationality.

IIRC you can give up your Turkish nationality, its Morocco that doesn't allow it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 10:13:34 am

Quote from: Antioch on July 23, 2016, 10:05:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 23, 2016, 09:59:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:33:21 am

Those aren't Turks, those are Dutch of Turkish descent

Yes and no. Children born of Turkish parents in the Netherlands get double nationality. One from the Netherlands, one from Turkey. They cannot get rid of the latter, because Turkish law does not recognize voluntary abandonment of nationality.

IIRC you can give up your Turkish nationality, its Morocco that doesn't allow it.

Looks like youre right. It's still up to the authorities though if they actually allow your request for denaturalization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_nationality_law

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:22:50 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/6nblGfC.png)

Authorities are now blaming this rampage on the killer having played video games (what), being linked with Anders Breivik (not joking), Columbine (hmm), depression (possible). Prosecutors treating it as an apolitical rampage, cos there was no objective besides murder
Tune in next time for next week's happenings
Once again, time to blame the media

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:34:48 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 23, 2016, 10:33:44 am

Ah, the 'New media? That must be to blame!' idea that seems to permeate everything in every era.

I know you're being sarcastic but the Daily Mail just linked to 4chan in order to prove that the Iranian was getting revenge for bullying

DANK MEMES CONTROL THE FUTURE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:37:23 am

I've got to be honest

I'm perfectly willing to blame old media too.

And corporations

And politicians

And the poor. It's probably their fault too.

Oh, and foreigners, it's foreigners' fault for ruining their own country.

The internet is also to blame, particularly 4chan's legacy of bullying

And you know what I think I'll also toss in a bit of blaming religion, and blaming a lack of it. Too many people are atheist/pagan these days. We need to get back to the good old days of -200 BC when people understood that the only proper god to worship was Jupiter and co.

EDIT: Wait what the fuck

My second-to-crowning ridiculous blame was actually true?

What the hell, new media?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:40:51 am

Certain types of violence have risen. Other types have fallen. I think it really depends on too many other variables to really say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:41:42 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/HuDyBAb.jpg)

I just clocked
This kid bought 300 bullets

What are Germany's gun laws

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 23, 2016, 04:45:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:41:42 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/HuDyBAb.jpg)

I just clocked
This kid bought 300 bullets

What are Germany's gun laws

The answer to people using illegal firearms is obviously dearming law-abiding citizens. Because guns are evil, and think about the children!

edit: its very difficult to acquire a pistol legally in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 23, 2016, 07:33:25 pm

It's not very far from the Czech border though, and IIRC CR has one of the laxest gun laws in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 23, 2016, 07:39:35 pm

That just means germany has a really, REALLY shitty border police.

Oh wait, this is the EU thread lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 07:48:45 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 23, 2016, 04:45:55 pm

The answer to people using illegal firearms is obviously dearming law-abiding citizens.

The best way to reduce crime with illegal firearms is actually making all guns completely legal for everyone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on July 23, 2016, 08:01:39 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 07:48:45 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 23, 2016, 04:45:55 pm

The answer to people using illegal firearms is obviously dearming law-abiding citizens.

The best way to reduce crime with illegal firearms is actually making all guns completely legal for everyone

well it works ok

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:14:02 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 07:48:45 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 23, 2016, 04:45:55 pm

The answer to people using illegal firearms is obviously dearming law-abiding citizens.

The best way to reduce crime with illegal firearms is actually making all guns completely legal for everyone

Semantical argument is semantical

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 23, 2016, 08:33:40 pm

I dunno, I could be an American conservative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:07 pm

Then you would be an Orange Wizard of the KKK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:42:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:07 pm

Then you would be an Orange Wizard of the KKK.

Because clearly all conservatives support the KKK. Clearly.  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:47:42 pm

Quote from: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:42:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:07 pm

Then you would be an Orange Wizard of the KKK.

Because clearly all conservatives support the KKK. Clearly.  ::)

I was hopeful that would obviously come across as the less-than-serious comment it was. Oh well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:55:42 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:47:42 pm

Quote from: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:42:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:07 pm

Then you would be an Orange Wizard of the KKK.

Because clearly all conservatives support the KKK. Clearly.  ::)

I was hopeful that would obviously come across as the less-than-serious comment it was. Oh well.

Oh, that was a joke? Sorry. Just annoyed at how ruddy everyone thinks "Conservative? You must be a racist!". And it pisses me off. Apologies for assuming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 08:58:06 pm

Conservatives are the clan of peace

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:09:26 pm

There's some countries where everyone carries guns

I hear they aren't doing too well

Something about warlords or fear or poverty or something I don't really remember

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 23, 2016, 09:10:53 pm

That tends to happen when you give guns to peoples who are kind of already killing eachother? Kind of a bad example thar, m8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 23, 2016, 09:19:51 pm

Quote

David Duke, former Ku Klux Klan leader, to run for Congress

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36870438

*runs away*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 09:24:51 pm

Quote from: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:55:42 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:47:42 pm

Quote from: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2016, 08:42:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 08:38:07 pm

Then you would be an Orange Wizard of the KKK.

Because clearly all conservatives support the KKK. Clearly.  ::)

I was hopeful that would obviously come across as the less-than-serious comment it was. Oh well.

Oh, that was a joke? Sorry. Just annoyed at how ruddy everyone thinks "Conservative? You must be a racist!". And it pisses me off. Apologies for assuming.

Nae bo'er, pal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:26:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:09:26 pm

There's some countries where everyone carries guns

I hear they aren't doing too well

Something about warlords or fear or poverty or something I don't really remember

The wartorn wastelands of Switzerland and Israel

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 23, 2016, 09:19:51 pm

Quote

David Duke, former Ku Klux Klan leader, to run for Congress

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36870438

*runs away*

Sorry sir we're going to have to deport you to USA thread, this is EUrojoke thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:26:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:09:26 pm

There's some countries where everyone carries guns

I hear they aren't doing too well

Something about warlords or fear or poverty or something I don't really remember

The wartorn wastelands of Switzerland and Israel

And Nigeria and the Congo and Sudan and

Israel is pretty wartorn though. All that palestine, ya know. And Switzerland everyone has guns, not everyone carries them.

I'm talking 'bout open carry mandatory or get shot

To clarify: Everyone with guns make it uncertain who wins the fight. When it's uncertain who wins the fight, you have to actually have the fight, the little guy doesn't just look at the big guys biceps and backs off even after a drink or three. Or if he does, it's just a punch in the face, it's not a shot to the gut. Gun laws are fine. But you don't need them with you all the time everywhere anyway. Off-duty cops and shit will sometimes be able to stop bad people with guns who start shit. Afaik, regular people have yet to do that in such a situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2016, 09:41:13 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:26:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:09:26 pm

There's some countries where everyone carries guns

I hear they aren't doing too well

Something about warlords or fear or poverty or something I don't really remember

The wartorn wastelands of Switzerland and Israel

And Nigeria and the Congo and Sudan and

Israel is pretty wartorn though. All that palestine, ya know. And Switzerland everyone has guns, not everyone carries them.

I'm talking 'bout open carry mandatory or get shot

To clarify: Everyone with guns make it uncertain who wins the fight. When it's uncertain who wins the fight, you have to actually have the fight, the little guy doesn't just look at the big guys biceps and backs off even after a drink or three. Or if he does, it's just a punch in the face, it's not a shot to the gut. Gun laws are fine. But you don't need them with you all the time everywhere anyway. Off-duty cops and shit will sometimes be able to stop bad people with guns who start shit. Afaik, regular people have yet to do that in such a situation.

The Wild West basically, though even BACK THEN, the towns had gun laws, so you had to surrender your gun in some places.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:51:40 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

And Nigeria and the Congo and Sudan and

Nigeria is doing incredibly well, the Congo and Sudan are both poor African nations scarred by ethnic and religious civil warfare, with the Congo's gun regulation being restrictive (http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/congo-drc) and in Sudan also as restrictive. (http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/sudan) Nigeria's regulation is permissive. (http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/nigeria) Doesn't really mean anything, unless of course poverty has no correlation with violent crime, which everyone seems to be saying is all the jazz these days.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

Israel is pretty wartorn though. All that palestine, ya know. And Switzerland everyone has guns, not everyone carries them.

All that Palestine is not Israel, and hardly a fault of the Israelis that they have security issues given that the Syrian war is going on next door :P

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

I'm talking 'bout open carry mandatory or get shot
To clarify: Everyone with guns make it uncertain who wins the fight. When it's uncertain who wins the fight, you have to actually have the fight, the little guy doesn't just look at the big guys biceps and backs off even after a drink or three. Or if he does, it's just a punch in the face, it's not a shot to the gut. Gun laws are fine. But you don't need them with you all the time everywhere anyway. Off-duty cops and shit will sometimes be able to stop bad people with guns who start shit. Afaik, regular people have yet to do that in such a situation.

The little guy backs off from the big guy? Big guy is faster, little guy is fucked, that's if the Big guy isn't a big gang :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

Ah, whoops, I was thinking of Niger.

My apologies.

I was pointing out the warfare. Lots of people carrying guns.

Israel's had security issues long before Syria War started, and that's not even counting the rockets and shit.

Also, what are you imagining the scenario as, here? I'm talking about something like a barroom nasty comment or the like. If the little guy shows submission, big guy's usually satisfied, fight doesn't happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:06:38 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

Ah, whoops, I was thinking of Niger.

That's racist

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

My apologies.

Nevermind then, you gud

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

I was pointing out the warfare. Lots of people carrying guns.

I'm pretty certain the centuries of conflict, the collapse of government, the funding of proxy warlords and such had more to do with their civil war happening than with their already restrictive gun laws not being more restrictive than restrictive

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

Israel's had security issues long before Syria War started, and that's not even counting the rockets and shit.

Well the Israelis aren't exactly selling weapons to the people shooting them, can't blame them for that

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

Also, what are you imagining the scenario as, here? I'm talking about something like a barroom nasty comment or the like. If the little guy shows submission, big guy's usually satisfied, fight doesn't happen.

"Usually satisfied?" Since when? Someone showing submissiveness before a fight has even begun is showing signs of weakness, which someone who is larger and stronger will pick up on. If they are in such a situation where they are about to fight, the bigger guy is going to show off his superiority confident that the little guy is just gonna submit and be humiliated. Let's put it this way - when a bully finds someone who's weaker than them, are they going to look instead for someone of equal strength?
That's barroom nasty comment, not a scenario where someone is out for blood to prove they're badman and shit, or is trying to mug someone or something

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:06:38 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

I was pointing out the warfare. Lots of people carrying guns.

I'm pretty certain the centuries of conflict, the collapse of government, the funding of proxy warlords and such had more to do with their civil war happening than with their already restrictive gun laws not being more restrictive than restrictive

Oh, I'm fairly certain that's the case. I just think it goes to show that it's not exactly a causative effect of everyone has guns so society is peaceful and respectful, like I've heard some people (including friends of mine) tell me. When society is stable, you can let people have guns because you know they'll be responsible with them.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:06:38 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:56:28 pm

Also, what are you imagining the scenario as, here? I'm talking about something like a barroom nasty comment or the like. If the little guy shows submission, big guy's usually satisfied, fight doesn't happen.

"Usually satisfied?" Since when? Someone showing submissiveness before a fight has even begun is showing signs of weakness, which someone who is larger and stronger will pick up on. If they are in such a situation where they are about to fight, the bigger guy is going to show off his superiority confident that the little guy is just gonna submit and be humiliated. Let's put it this way - when a bully finds someone who's weaker than them, are they going to look instead for someone of equal strength?
That's barroom nasty comment, not a scenario where someone is out for blood to prove they're badman and shit, or is trying to mug someone or something

Barroom nasty comment is someone who thinks you just insulted his pride. Not someone looking for someone to bully. I'm thinking of social preening and displaying one's dominance, not bullying. Submission works for that, and then the guy can go back to drinking, laughing about the little nerd. Humiliation>getting shot because you figure your pistol can take 'im. Or them getting shot because you were right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:20:30 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Oh, I'm fairly certain that's the case. I just think it goes to show that it's not exactly a causative effect of everyone has guns so society is peaceful and respectful, like I've heard some people (including friends of mine) tell me. When society is stable, you can let people have guns because you know they'll be responsible with them.

It also goes to show that a disarmed populace is incapable of stopping its own government from running a genocide on them

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Barroom nasty comment is someone who thinks you just insulted his pride. Not someone looking for someone to bully. I'm thinking of social preening and displaying one's dominance, not bullying.

If you insult someone's pride in a pub in London and back down, you're going to get the crap beaten out of you. No one has guns in London.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Submission works for that, and then the guy can go back to drinking, laughing about the little nerd. Humiliation>getting shot because you figure your pistol can take 'im. Or them getting shot because you were right.

Wtf are you doing if you're a skinny manlet trying to start shit with /fit/izens
Drink your drink and mind your own business, you put yourself in a life or death situation, is it on your head? Not entirely, but partially yes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:32:18 pm

They're drunk, LW

Duh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:35:36 pm

If being drunk doesn't make the skinny manlet pass out and instead decide to pick on the biggest drunk fuck in the room, I'm not saying he deserves to die, but I'm not going to punch an elephant in the gonads am I? At that point questions of morality go out the window, it's just a matter of Darwin Awards

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:38:04 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:35:36 pm

If being drunk doesn't make the skinny manlet pass out and instead decide to pick on the biggest drunk fuck in the room, I'm not saying he deserves to die, but I'm not going to punch an elephant in the gonads am I? At that point questions of morality go out the window, it's just a matter of Darwin Awards

Well but that's my point

If he's got a gun he maybe ends up thinking he's a rough and tough dude who can take on whoever

No gun and he knows he's a punk

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:42:51 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:38:04 pm

Well but that's my point
If he's got a gun he maybe ends up thinking he's a rough and tough dude who can take on whoever
No gun and he knows he's a punk

Rolepgeek, now I see

We must destroy the neets before the neet uprising occurs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 11:08:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:42:51 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:38:04 pm

Well but that's my point
If he's got a gun he maybe ends up thinking he's a rough and tough dude who can take on whoever
No gun and he knows he's a punk

Rolepgeek, now I see

We must destroy the neets before the neet uprising occurs

That's quite the conclusion leap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 11:16:33 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 11:08:01 pm

That's quite the conclusion leap.

Once Putin arms them, they will feel like lucky punks

Then it's war, and with guns in their hands, our superior strength will not be able to stop them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 11:43:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 11:16:33 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2016, 11:08:01 pm

That's quite the conclusion leap.

Once Putin arms them, they will feel like lucky punks

Then it's war, and with guns in their hands, our superior strength will not be able to stop them

Now you see the gravity of the situation.

It is a gravity so strong even our bulging muscles will look flabby and weak under it's influence.

We will sag while their bony physique will be unaffected

We shall appear...unfit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 11:46:12 pm

Spoiler: The master of tomorrow (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/mTRFQdq.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 24, 2016, 12:44:16 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 11:46:12 pm

Spoiler: The master of tomorrow (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/mTRFQdq.png)

drew Carey and Garfield?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 03:02:10 am

Why does he have one asian coloured arm and one caucasian coloured arm?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 24, 2016, 03:12:43 am

I don't think people are that light in Georgia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 24, 2016, 03:28:58 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:29:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 09:26:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 09:09:26 pm

There's some countries where everyone carries guns

I hear they aren't doing too well

Something about warlords or fear or poverty or something I don't really remember

The wartorn wastelands of Switzerland and Israel

And Nigeria and the Congo and Sudan and

Israel is pretty wartorn though. All that palestine, ya know. And Switzerland everyone has guns, not everyone carries them.

I'm talking 'bout open carry mandatory or get shot

To clarify: Everyone with guns make it uncertain who wins the fight. When it's uncertain who wins the fight, you have to actually have the fight, the little guy doesn't just look at the big guys biceps and backs off even after a drink or three. Or if he does, it's just a punch in the face, it's not a shot to the gut. Gun laws are fine. But you don't need them with you all the time everywhere anyway. Off-duty cops and shit will sometimes be able to stop bad people with guns who start shit. Afaik, regular people have yet to do that in such a situation.

Are you seriously advocating hierarchy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 24, 2016, 03:37:06 am

As opposed to anarchy, yes.

As opposed to equality, no.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 24, 2016, 05:49:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:20:30 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Oh, I'm fairly certain that's the case. I just think it goes to show that it's not exactly a causative effect of everyone has guns so society is peaceful and respectful, like I've heard some people (including friends of mine) tell me. When society is stable, you can let people have guns because you know they'll be responsible with them.

It also goes to show that a disarmed populace is incapable of stopping its own government from running a genocide on them

I have yet to see the first case of an armed population stopping a government run genocide.

In fact history has shown that it is pretty trivial for a government to disarm the population before commencing with such deeds.

Nazi Germany was saturated with guns in 1933, there were paramilitary Vreikorps everywhere, most of them handed in their weapons freely because they SUPPORTED Hitler's rise to power. Not that it would have mattered because an active insurgency would have only sped up Hitler's rise to power like the coup does for Erdogan.

Then we have states like the Soviet union and the peoples republic of China that came into power BECAUSE the people rose up and overthrew the previous rulers, I am not really sure how arming the population would have prevented the population from overthrowing their rulers. It was once again trivial to remove those who opposed from society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 24, 2016, 06:05:43 am

On Czech Republic: one cant just walk into a store and buy a gun there either. Firearm laws are the laxest in Europe but people still need licenses.

I'm not sure if I wanted to live in a society where firearms are available to literally everyone and where that right was also widely used. The situation in for example many(but certainly not all) US states is that not arming oneself is not the norm. Issues with people within a society or perception of such issues(creating the need to being armed and carrying) shouldn't IMHO become such that people arming against each other becomes the norm and leaving outside of that(not arming oneself) the exception.

That said what I do recognize firearms helping with is equalization: a weak woman with a firearm has equal power to a strong man with the same firearm, assuming similar lever of practice in using it and the right mindset ie. the will to use the weapon if true need arises. A firearm can potentially save the day be it preventing the situation from escalating or killing the bad guy long before the cops, who usually get to just respond to what has already happened, arrive.

Also yet again we are talking for the 3rd page about firearm laws when the tool used was a firearm. We didn't talk about trucks after Nice. Its mostly a people problem, not tools problem, although some tools shouldn't be available for everyone. And they aren't, hence the once again illegal firearm.

Quote from: Antioch on July 24, 2016, 05:49:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2016, 10:20:30 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on July 23, 2016, 10:11:45 pm

Oh, I'm fairly certain that's the case. I just think it goes to show that it's not exactly a causative effect of everyone has guns so society is peaceful and respectful, like I've heard some people (including friends of mine) tell me. When society is stable, you can let people have guns because you know they'll be responsible with them.

It also goes to show that a disarmed populace is incapable of stopping its own government from running a genocide on them

I have yet to see the first case of an armed population stopping a government run genocide.

In fact history has shown that it is pretty trivial for a government to disarm the population before commencing with such deeds.

Nazi Germany was saturated with guns in 1933, there were paramilitary Vreikorps everywhere, most of them handed in their weapons freely because they SUPPORTED Hitler's rise to power. Not that it would have mattered because an active insurgency would have only sped up Hitler's rise to power like the coup does for Erdogan.

Then we have states like the Soviet union and the peoples republic of China that came into power BECAUSE the people rose up and overthrew the previous rulers, I am not really sure how arming the population would have prevented the population from overthrowing their rulers. It was once again trivial to remove those who opposed from society.

They did just recently fail in disarming people in Belgium. Closer to a million firearms went missing. Not that I think Belgium is about to genocide anyone.  :)

In totalitarian/communist nations it has been/is typically very difficult to acquire a gun. Nazi Germany is one of the few exceptions. Those nations are pretty good at making sure no individual can resist and the people cant revolt and overthrow the revolutionaries... But can be send to Siberia on a train. At gunpoint.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 24, 2016, 06:59:08 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 03:02:10 am

Why does he have one asian coloured arm and one caucasian coloured arm?

I think that's supposed to be the cat's tail, not sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 08:30:01 am

While the German government is holding a meeting discussing if gun laws should be adjusted, german police reports that the Munich shooter bought his gun illegally over the internet.

No gun law gun change that. Only thing to prevent that is to forbid all online delivery services (not gonna happen, people want their online sevices plus E-bay and Amazon would sue Germany into bankruptcy if they did that), massively invest in high tech scanning systems at the mail sorting offices (expect big increase in cost of mailing things. Probably not gonna happen, privatized mail services don't like to make huge investments like that) or open all and everyone's mail physically to see if there's gun parts in it (don't expect your mail to be delivered with 24h anymore. A week sounds more reasonable. Never gonna happen, realtime economy demands quick mail service. It would fix unemployment issues though. Just make every unemployed German work at the secret mail opening service).

Police also reports that the shooter has been preparing his action for a year. He wrote a manifesto, just like Breivik did. He visited the site of the Baden-Württemberg shooting. Police found him on pictures taken there. His facebook profile had a large picture of Breivik. Police strongly suspect the shooting is linked to Breivik, as it took place at the 5th year anniversary of the Utoya shooting.

So I guess this was not an islam terrorist, but an anti-islam terrorist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 24, 2016, 08:45:54 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 08:30:01 am

Police also reports that the shooter has been preparing his action for a year. He wrote a manifesto, just like Breivik did. He visited the site of the Baden-Württemberg shooting. Police found him on pictures taken there. His facebook profile had a large picture of Breivik. Police strongly suspect the shooting is linked to Breivik, as it took place at the 5th year anniversary of the Utoya shooting.

So I guess this was not an islam terrorist, but an anti-islam terrorist.

With a side of school-shooting type rage since apparently most of the people he targeted were people around his age. Or maybe the anti-islam terrorist is a side to this. Seems to be something that doesn't quite fit into one category or another, but it was definetly terrorism by the very definition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2016, 08:52:19 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 03:02:10 am

Why does he have one asian coloured arm and one caucasian coloured arm?

Jaundice in one arm

Quote from: Antioch on July 24, 2016, 05:49:18 am

I have yet to see the first case of an armed population stopping a government run genocide.
In fact history has shown that it is pretty trivial for a government to disarm the population before commencing with such deeds.

History has shown that in order to genocide a people you must first disarm them lol
That's a funny way of spinning things

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 24, 2016, 09:55:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2016, 08:52:19 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 03:02:10 am

Why does he have one asian coloured arm and one caucasian coloured arm?

Jaundice in one arm

Quote from: Antioch on July 24, 2016, 05:49:18 am

I have yet to see the first case of an armed population stopping a government run genocide.
In fact history has shown that it is pretty trivial for a government to disarm the population before commencing with such deeds.

History has shown that in order to genocide a people you must first disarm them lol
That's a funny way of spinning things

The actual effect is that arming people does jack shit to prevent war crimes.

No resistance group has ever stopped a genocide perpetrated by their own government.

The resistance groups that fought in WW2 achieved some success (at a huge cost) but that was against a foreign invader that was simultaneously involved in a world war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 24, 2016, 10:16:56 am

The whole point of bearing arms in case of tyrannical government(while actually never practicing for that, instead using for self defense or sports, pistols are shitty firearms for a two-way shooting contest any way) doesn't work in Europe. Europeans don't have the right to bear arms for the formation of militia and against foreign aggression there are professional armies and NATO.

Not saying its good or the right way, but thats how it is: for Europeans, guns are for varmint control, sports, hunting, and in some countries self defense(Estonia, Czech Republic, Hungary) and reservists(Estonia, Finland, Switzerland, Norway at least). Military personnel also are mostly professionals, only few countries are left with a conscript army that would be difficult for a government turned evil to use against their own people. Europeans really do trust their democracies.

Many European countries even have restricted access to weapons using "military" calibers(.223 rem, .308 win and so forth) such as France, Spain and Italy. Thus, the legislation is such that even those that do have firearms of any kind have mostly incompatible ammo with military weapons. Ammo availability is thus easier to control or restrain if needed, and most guns are registered any way so their owners are whereabouts are more or less known.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 24, 2016, 10:51:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 03:02:10 am

Why does he have one asian coloured arm and one caucasian coloured arm?

You mean that being mixed-race doesn't work like that?

Quote from: Erkki on July 24, 2016, 06:05:43 am

On Czech Republic: one cant just walk into a store and buy a gun there either. Firearm laws are the laxest in Europe but people still need licenses.

Store, no. But that also makes it easier for them to fall off the truck, officer, I swear, and other things like that. And when you're planning to murder a bunch of random guys you probably aren't too concerned whether the gun you use for it is legal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 24, 2016, 12:14:45 pm

What does the German law says, will the Syrian refugee (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/24/man-with-machete-kills-woman-in-southern-germany) that killed a pregnant woman be charged with a double homicide?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 24, 2016, 12:18:34 pm

In Reutingen, Germany, a man pulled a machete after arguing with a woman and killed her and wounded two bystanders. German authorities report that the man has been arrested.
According to eye-witnesses the guy went 'completely berserk' and when the police arrived, charged their vehicle with his machete. Then, someone in a BMW ran him over with his car, after which he laid on the ground and did not move anymore.

Newspaper now reports that it was a 21 year old Syrian refugee, unconfirmed.

Policeman standing over the downed berserker
https://twitter.com/46616C7365/status/757237196151726080/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/46616C7365/status/757237196151726080/photo/1)

Police now confirms the perpetrator is a 21 year old Syrian asylum seeker who was already known to them.

Moved from being in the wrong thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 24, 2016, 12:27:03 pm

Quote from: scrdest on July 24, 2016, 10:51:47 am

Store, no. But that also makes it easier for them to fall off the truck, officer, I swear, and other things like that. And when you're planning to murder a bunch of random guys you probably aren't too concerned whether the gun you use for it is legal.

Depending a bit on the case one is unlikely to get a license again for a while after "losing" a firearm... Really, most of the ones used in terrorist attacks and mafia can be tracked to Warsaw Pact or organized crime out of Europe. Plus, some of the deactivations in Europe are really sloppily done thanks to lacking legislation and monitoring. Most of the illegal firearms that end up in police hands still are tiny pocket pistols, Makarovs and such. I think here, the single most common illegal firearm found is actually the PPSh... lol. Point being, in this case the firearm was a modern one, but majority of the illegals are ancient and very few to none could be legally acquired.

But yeah I agree, if you want a gun, you can get a gun. No amount of legislation will change the fact we still have a million or so, nobody knows how many exactly, black market Kalashnikovs and other former military firearms within Schengen area. I've accidentally(honestly) came across several myself too, its not difficult to get one if you have cash and the will. And if you're okay with the risks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 24, 2016, 05:44:29 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 24, 2016, 12:27:03 pm

Quote from: scrdest on July 24, 2016, 10:51:47 am

Store, no. But that also makes it easier for them to fall off the truck, officer, I swear, and other things like that. And when you're planning to murder a bunch of random guys you probably aren't too concerned whether the gun you use for it is legal.

Depending a bit on the case one is unlikely to get a license again for a while after "losing" a firearm... Really, most of the ones used in terrorist attacks and mafia can be tracked to Warsaw Pact or organized crime out of Europe. Plus, some of the deactivations in Europe are really sloppily done thanks to lacking legislation and monitoring. Most of the illegal firearms that end up in police hands still are tiny pocket pistols, Makarovs and such. I think here, the single most common illegal firearm found is actually the PPSh... lol. Point being, in this case the firearm was a modern one, but majority of the illegals are ancient and very few to none could be legally acquired.

But yeah I agree, if you want a gun, you can get a gun. No amount of legislation will change the fact we still have a million or so, nobody knows how many exactly, black market Kalashnikovs and other former military firearms within Schengen area. I've accidentally(honestly) came across several myself too, its not difficult to get one if you have cash and the will. And if you're okay with the risks.

Well yeah, Ppsh is awesome, who wouldn't keep one illegally? Can't let that German dictator take away your stool.     

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://images.dmotivated.com/posters/2013/07/dbf8c79c2ec3364.jpg)

. 
Though I would prefer a Dskh which is much more uncomfortable to sit on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 24, 2016, 10:11:10 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/24/world/ansbach-germany-blast/index.html

Good thing that he wasn't able to get inside the festival, and geeze, it's been a sucky past couple days for Germany.

edit: Slightly better BBC article http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 25, 2016, 12:31:11 am

"We don't know if this man planned on suicide or if he had the intention of killing others".

Apparently Bavaria's interior minster thinks it's plausible for someone to explode himeself in a restraunt full of people without an intention of killing said people. if it wasn't so sad, it would have been hilarious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 02:18:27 am

God fucking damnit, this has to stop

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on July 25, 2016, 02:48:44 am

If the guy had been deported immediately when his asylum was rejected, this would never have happened.

Why do we let these people run roughshod over our rules? Enter legally or not at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 02:55:52 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on July 25, 2016, 02:48:44 am

If the guy had been deported immediately when his asylum was rejected, this would never have happened.

International law forbids that which is why German court ruled that despite being denied asylum, the guy was allowed to stay in Germany until Syria is 'safe' again.

It might be an idea to start razzias, round up all refugees, and put them in camps under lockdown.

Then again, it might have stopped this guy, but the majority of terrorist attacks was committed by 3d generation, EU-born muslims.


EDIT: Meanwhile, in Turkey, arrest warrants have been issued for the arrest of 42 journalists, amongst whom former member of parliament Nazli Illicac.
By now, nearly 70 thousand people have been fired from their jobs, and over 13 thousand people have been arrested, and can be detained without formal charges for 30 days according to the new presidential law.

Amnesty International claims to have evidence that prisoners have been tortured, and some have been anal raped.

Meanwhile, in the EU, Juncker has stated that "Turkey will not join the EU anytime soon, and when they reinstate death penalty, they never will."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on July 25, 2016, 03:58:44 am

I like this kind of punishment for for doing small scale Stalin purges.

We will not take you in EU! (As if Turkey ever had a chance)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 25, 2016, 04:09:50 am

International law states you can (Should, in fact) send them back to the first safe country they crossed into. unless they somehow managed to parachute themselves into Germany, they crossed several safe countries along the way. since it is pretty senseless to send them to other European countries, the best choice would be Turkey which even now is still being considered a safe country.

A simple calculation shows that Germany is now having ~48,600 Syrian refugees who hold positive views about ISIS ( 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrians_in_Germany) , 2 (http://english.dohainstitute.org/file/Get/40ebdf12-8960-4d18-8088-7c8a077e522e) ). i need not remind that ISIS is far from being the only evil Jihadist organization in existence, that people who are against ISIS might still support other, just as evil, Jihadists organizations and that Syrians are not the only refugees/immigrants population which might hold positive view of ISIS/Jihadists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am

Meanwhile some members of german parliament are pleading for a complete ban on violent videogames, like CS:GO. The Munich shooter apparently spent a lot of time playing that, and had even been institutionalized into a psychiatric hospital to treat game addiction. German police have arrested a 16 year old friend of the perpetrator. They suspect him of not only knowing of the plans for the shooting, but also they suspect he aided them by making the facebook call to get people to the Mcdonalds. He had met the perpetrator in the psychiatric clinic, where they both were admitted for game addiction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 05:53:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am

Meanwhile some members of german parliament are pleading for a complete ban on violent videogames,

Oh for the love of

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:58:14 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 05:53:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am

Meanwhile some members of german parliament are pleading for a complete ban on violent videogames,

Oh for the love of

Yeah they keep trying everytime. Probably it will fail again though. Although Germany is already pretty harsh on gaming. There's not many countries where you can get locked up in a psych ward for gaming addiction as easily as in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 06:08:35 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 25, 2016, 06:04:09 am

'The truth is, that for me, it shall always be 1945'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 07:38:52 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 05:53:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am

Meanwhile some members of german parliament are pleading for a complete ban on violent videogames,

Oh for the love of

Exactly my reaction too. Politicians tried to do this back in the 90's, or at least just regulate them heavily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 25, 2016, 08:06:40 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 07:38:52 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 05:53:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am

Meanwhile some members of german parliament are pleading for a complete ban on violent videogames,

Oh for the love of

Exactly my reaction too. Politicians tried to do this back in the 90's, or at least just regulate them heavily.

You forgot the attorney who I won't name because he's an idiot, and doesn't need people to know about him, active in the '00s.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 09:06:14 am

The guy who detonated himself im Ansbach made a video prior to it, declaring his support for IS, and saying he will kill Germans in the name of God for what they did to muslims.

Authorities still say that they're not sure if he really was an IS supporter. They say he was a psychiatric patient, with battle scars from Syria, who had been treated for cutting his wrists twice. The prosecutor says he suffered from periods of depression.

Earlier, the perpetrator had gone to the police with another man, to file charges against a third man, accusing him of being a Hezbollah fighter.

In his backpack, police found enough material to make another bomb. Police doubt he intended to blow himself up with the bomb, they think he might have accidentally detonated, and had instead wished to place bombs at the festival that denied him access for not having a ticket. In his pocket they also found a bundle of 50 euro bills.
Looks like someone paid him well.



EDIT: Meanwhile in the Netherlands, last night, two more Turkish companies where torched by unknown pyromaniacs.
In Apeldoorn, an NGO of Turkish highly educated parents, which is a think tank for deradicalization efforts with links to Gulen was set on fire.
In Deventer, a Turkish religious society was set on fire. Quick action by neighbors prevented serious damage.

In my own neighborhood, there's glass everywhere now from Turkish cars having their windows smashed. Also, The Turks in my block (which are over 50% of my neighborhood's population) are sitting in their front yards, demonstratively wearing Turkish flag T-shirts. Those Turks who don't wear will likely have their car windows smashed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 25, 2016, 09:20:28 am

Aaaand Turkish community in Europe has turned into an organized terrorist group in a week. Great job, Europe. You sure integrated them well. I can practically feel the cultural enrichment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 09:27:24 am

Quote from: Sergarr on July 25, 2016, 09:20:28 am

You sure integrated them well.

They are well integrated. Just yesterday my cat-walk (some people walk their dog, my cat walks me) got interrupted by a Turksish neighbor who, while drunk as fuck, tried to convert me to islam by telling me stories about angels and Jesus. Perfect integration there. Did learn something new though.

Apparently, according to islam, the guy on the crucifix is not Jesus but Judas. God saved Jesus by bringing him up to the heavens and transformed Judas to look like Jesus to punish him for his would be betrayal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 25, 2016, 10:12:57 am

If you think God is a bit odd in the old testament, you haven't seen the shit he pulls on Islamic texts :v

Anyway, its not like anyone ever pretended most Turks living in the EU are not nationalist radicals. These are the kind of people who go around in marches denying the armenian genocide, calling armenians terrorists, etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 10:21:45 am

Drunk neighbor is drunk I guess.... (Martinuzz'es that is)

Anyway, sounds like if Erdogan wasn't Iron Fisting Turkey*, there'd be a Turkish civil war going on.

*'Iron Fisting Turkey' sounds like a band name or something doesn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 11:43:41 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 24, 2016, 01:07:48 pm

Assuming we're in much of a joking mood in another twenty years, anyway.

Bants never change Cov, even if in the future the Caliphate of Europe declares jihad on a secular democratic middle east, bants, bants never change

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 02:55:52 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on July 25, 2016, 02:48:44 am

If the guy had been deported immediately when his asylum was rejected, this would never have happened.

International law forbids that which is why German court ruled that despite being denied asylum, the guy was allowed to stay in Germany until Syria is 'safe' again.

International law does not forbid it, Germany should never have had an open door policy to asylum seekers especially given how it did not border Syria and there was a road of safe countries along the way to its open gates. By international law what Germany did was unnecessary and deliberately exacerbated the refugee crisis to the point where Germany lost the ability to even stop it (which Merkel doesn't even show interest in doing), and as someone said earlier in regards to international law, it's quite feckless and people find ways to render it neutralized, as is the case with those currently ignoring Erdogan despite international law obliging them.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 02:55:52 am

Then again, it might have stopped this guy, but the majority of terrorist attacks was committed by 3d generation, EU-born muslims.

You didn't provide any sources but who cares, let's take the b8. What's the link between mass migration and 3rd gen migrants?

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 02:55:52 am

EDIT: Meanwhile, in Turkey, arrest warrants have been issued for the arrest of 42 journalists, amongst whom former member of parliament Nazli Illicac.
By now, nearly 70 thousand people have been fired from their jobs, and over 13 thousand people have been arrested, and can be detained without formal charges for 30 days according to the new presidential law.
Amnesty International claims to have evidence that prisoners have been tortured, and some have been anal raped.
Meanwhile, in the EU, Juncker has stated that "Turkey will not join the EU anytime soon, and when they reinstate death penalty, they never will."

Link to amnesty international on Turkey (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/07/turkey-independent-monitors-must-be-allowed-to-access-detainees-amid-torture-allegations/)

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 09:06:14 am

The guy who detonated himself im Ansbach made a video prior to it, declaring his support for IS, and saying he will kill Germans in the name of God for what they did to muslims.
Authorities still say that they're not sure if he really was an IS supporter. They say he was a psychiatric patient, with battle scars from Syria, who had been treated for cutting his wrists twice. The prosecutor says he suffered from periods of depression.

What

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 11:56:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 11:43:41 am

You didn't provide any sources but who cares, let's take the b8. What's the link between mass migration and 3rd gen migrants?

What do you mean, bait? I did not imply any link between mass migration and 3d gen migrants. Only thing I implied is that putting refugees on lockdown in a camp will not stop 3d generation EU born Jihadis (like the ones responsible for the Paris attacks, the Brussels attacks or the Nice attack).

Thanks for that amnesty link btw, looks like it's as bad and worse in Turkey as my newspaper summarized.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 11:43:41 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 09:06:14 am

The guy who detonated himself im Ansbach made a video prior to it, declaring his support for IS, and saying he will kill Germans in the name of God for what they did to muslims.
Authorities still say that they're not sure if he really was an IS supporter. They say he was a psychiatric patient, with battle scars from Syria, who had been treated for cutting his wrists twice. The prosecutor says he suffered from periods of depression.

What

The German minister of internal affairs, Joachim Herrmann said in a statement that the perpetrator's act needs to be viewed in the light of his extremist views, 'acting in the name of God to kill Germans', yet, despite the video found on his phone, and IS claiming the attack, 'there is not yet any evidence that he acted on behalf of IS'.
Germans are confused to the bone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 12:16:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 11:43:41 am

International law does not forbid it, Germany should never have had an open door policy to asylum seekers especially given how it did not border Syria and there was a road of safe countries along the way to its open gates. By international law what Germany did was unnecessary and deliberately exacerbated the refugee crisis to the point where Germany lost the ability to even stop it (which Merkel doesn't even show interest in doing), and as someone said earlier in regards to international law, it's quite feckless and people find ways to render it neutralized, as is the case with those currently ignoring Erdogan despite international law obliging them.

International law does forbid sending him back to Syria. And in practice, for any refugee that manages to arrive in Germany without getting their fingerprints taken in any other safe country en route, Germany is the first safe country they arrived in, if only because it will be near impossible to determine which country exactly it is he really arrived at first. Could be Turkey, could be Greece, could be Italy.

As for this specific guy, apparently he was going to be deported, to Bulgaria. Apparently he got his fingerprints taken there first. Newspaper didn't report that yet when I made the earlier post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 12:36:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 11:56:33 am

What do you mean, bait? I did not imply any link between mass migration and 3d gen migrants. Only thing I implied is that putting refugees on lockdown in a camp will not stop 3d generation EU born Jihadis (like the ones responsible for the Paris attacks, the Brussels attacks or the Nice attack).

Fair enough, I thought you were drawing a link to this one and the others by referencing the wider jihadi pool

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 11:56:33 am

Thanks for that amnesty link btw, looks like it's as bad and worse in Turkey as my newspaper summarized.

For many, the year of 2016 was a year of terrible change, where every day "it got worse."

Quote from: martinuzz on July 25, 2016, 11:56:33 am

The German minister of internal affairs, Joachim Herrmann said in a statement that the perpetrator's act needs to be viewed in the light of his extremist views, 'acting in the name of God to kill Germans', yet, despite the video found on his phone, and IS claiming the attack, 'there is not yet any evidence that he acted on behalf of IS'.
Germans are confused to the bone

The demoralization is next level real

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2016, 01:42:44 pm

Quote from: Covenant on July 25, 2016, 01:36:37 pm

True, but they're poking a sleeping bear. Europeans have proven quite well in the last century that we can do some horrendous things when the right circumstances arise.
Despite what the French PM has suggested about us just having to 'learn to live with terrorism', I think that if our current elected leaders don't deal with it sensibly in the next few years, then we'll be dealing with it radically in the years after that. I'd much prefer it to be the former.

Yeah but that sounds like swinging from absolute terror to absolute horror

Bezmenov you cheeky fuck what did your guys do hahaha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 25, 2016, 04:39:06 pm

Crusade when? Well, I guess that's just for dealing with people in Syria, for the ones already here we'll have to reestablish the Inquisition. I'm sure Torquemada could've prevented these terrorist attacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 04:40:28 pm

Which is exactly what ISIS and other extremists want the West to do, so, no.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 25, 2016, 04:46:07 pm

Spoiler: Order your patches now. Deus vult! (click to show/hide)

(https://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/3163656d83f87b845c.jpg)

edit: only 3.99 €, colored or black-khaki.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on July 25, 2016, 04:54:24 pm

I genuinely saw someone with one of those patches (finished my service a month back). I would've asked him about it, but I was too afraid he'd strike me down in a fit of RIGHTEOUS FURY DEUSES VULTED 5/7

Jesus fucking christ. Guy was an officer-in-training too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 07:48:47 pm

I always find it weird to see Christians supporting the army and so on. S'like, did you miss the whole love and peace thing? I don't recall Jesus saying to riddle the heathens with bullets. He did give them bread and fish though.

Quote from: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 04:40:28 pm

Which is exactly what ISIS and other extremists want the West to do, so, no.

They want us to attack so they can win, except they seem to have missed the point where western militaries are vastly superior to them in almost every respect. Barring stuff like religious fanaticism and barbarism, I guess.

Invasion+annexation of the ME probably isn't the worst outcome, as long as western powers co-operate and actually put a bit of effort in so we don't get Africa 2.0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 07:53:21 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 25, 2016, 07:48:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 25, 2016, 04:40:28 pm

Which is exactly what ISIS and other extremists want the West to do, so, no.

They want us to attack so they can win, except they seem to have missed the point where western militaries are vastly superior to them in almost every respect. Barring stuff like religious fanaticism and barbarism, I guess.

Invasion+annexation of the ME probably isn't the worst outcome, as long as western powers co-operate and actually put a bit of effort in so we don't get Africa 2.0

The Western powers already did that after WWI and look how well that went. I doubt doing it a second time will get better results.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on July 25, 2016, 08:05:28 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 25, 2016, 04:46:07 pm

Spoiler: Order your patches now. Deus vult! (click to show/hide)

(https://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/3163656d83f87b845c.jpg)

edit: only 3.99 €, colored or black-khaki.

Wait, isn't that just a Finnish flag turned on its side?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 25, 2016, 11:28:59 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on July 25, 2016, 08:05:28 pm

Quote from: Erkki on July 25, 2016, 04:46:07 pm

Spoiler: Order your patches now. Deus vult! (click to show/hide)

(https://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/3163656d83f87b845c.jpg)

edit: only 3.99 €, colored or black-khaki.

Wait, isn't that just a Finnish flag turned on its side?

Oh, I meant this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.varusteleka.fi/pictures/3163656d8477e1b8b0.jpg)

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-deus-vult-morale-patch/36151

I dont believe they're entirely serious with the crusader theme. They love their humorous marketing in everything from socks to tents, helmets and plate carriers.

edit, uhh: "Pro-Tip: Are you offended by righteous, hot headed extreme-christianity? No worries, these patches are perfect for you too: just buy a bunch and burn them! For extra effect we recommend dancing around the tiny pyre whilst chanting some silly made-up language."  :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2016, 01:48:12 am

Heh, I too was wondering what patch you were referring to. On my the tiny image on my phone that one just looked like a standard province shield of arms of some sort with some grey animal in on-hindlegs pose :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on July 26, 2016, 04:05:53 am

DEUS VULT

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 04:14:36 am

Quote from: Morrigi on July 26, 2016, 04:05:53 am

DEUS VULT

don't turn thread into 4chan plx

In other news, speaking of deus vult, French crusaders police managed to kill two people with knives who had taken a pastor, two nuns and two churchgoers hostage, before anyone else got hurt.
They got in through the back door of the church during mass.
One nun managed to escape and warn emergency services.

Nothing is known about the perpetrator's motives as of yet.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2016/07/26/97001-20160726FILWWW00078-prise-d-otage-en-cours-dans-une-eglise-de-saint-etienne-du-rouvray-seine-maritime.php (http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2016/07/26/97001-20160726FILWWW00078-prise-d-otage-en-cours-dans-une-eglise-de-saint-etienne-du-rouvray-seine-maritime.php)
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/une-prise-d-otage-en-cours-dans-une-eglise-pres-de-rouen-26-07-2016-5995567.php (http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/une-prise-d-otage-en-cours-dans-une-eglise-pres-de-rouen-26-07-2016-5995567.php)

EDIT: apparently they were not in time to prevent at least one hostage from being killed  :(

Bah. There goes my idle hope to not have an attack for a day. I was so hopeful this morning when I openen my paper and there was no headline saying X people killed at Y
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2016, 04:24:45 am

Quote from: DJ on July 25, 2016, 04:39:06 pm

Crusade when? Well, I guess that's just for dealing with people in Syria, for the ones already here we'll have to reestablish the Inquisition. I'm sure Torquemada could've prevented these terrorist attacks.

The EU Inquisition would only target shitlords, jihad doesn't count

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 04:14:36 am

Quote from: Morrigi on July 26, 2016, 04:05:53 am

DEUS VULT

don't turn thread into 4chan plx

Why you gotta hate on the swedish interactive strategy vidya

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2016, 05:08:46 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 26, 2016, 05:01:53 am

That emoticon seems wildly inappropriate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/1ANTfg4.png)

Seems to be the general tone of the thread, laughter becomes the only way to cope with so much suffering, lest you get emotionally fatigued and become a jaded robot

Quote from: Covenant on July 26, 2016, 05:01:53 am

I doubt that'll change, based on recent examples. The attackers could have uploaded a video pledging support to ISIS and shouted 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack, and the police would still say 'Their motives will forever remain unclear'.

Which has sadly happened

The Bataclan "I don't have that information on putting balls in your mouth" theatre is probably #1
Some part of me died when I first noticed this with the Lee Rigby killing, how certain news outlets edited out the soldier of allah speech

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:09:20 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 26, 2016, 05:01:53 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 04:14:36 am

EDIT: apparently they were not in time to prevent at least one hostage from being killed :P

That emoticon seems wildly inappropriate.

OOPS good catch

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 26, 2016, 05:09:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 04:14:36 am

Nothing is known about the perpetrator's motives as of yet.

My guess: "Nothing to do with Islam'.

Edit: I saw reports that the killers were two bearded men. damn hipsters!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 26, 2016, 05:18:28 am

Thas rashist

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2016, 05:21:52 am

Behead those who say we're mainstream

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:26:38 am

After the perpetrators were shot, police found that they had killed the priest by slitting his throat. Another hostage is in hospital in critical condition.

There's some reports the bearded men shouted 'Daesh'.

Does not make sense though, I thought Daesh was a curse word for IS, not used by them themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:32:16 am

Meanwhile, Turkey and Russia had a diplomatic meeting today to "restore trade relations to what they were, or better yet, improve them over the situation before november 24th".

On that day, Russian-Turkish relations were seriously damaged by Turkey shooting down a Russian jet fighter.

Perhaps Erdogan is preparing for the leave NATO scenario?

Yesterday, Erdogan ranted about Europe violating the refugee agreement, not paying up and not allowing Turks to enter the EU without visum yet, in an interview with the german ARD channel. He also reiterated in the interview, that "the people of Turkey want the death penalty back, we have to listen to them".
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/erdogan-interview-107.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 26, 2016, 05:36:15 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:32:16 am

Perhaps Erdogan is preparing for the leave NATO scenario?

Seems like a prudent decision. Strategically it'd be good for Russia to have closer ties with Turkey as well.

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:32:16 am

Yesterday, Erdogan ranted about Europe violating the refugee agreement, not paying up and not allowing Turks to enter the EU without visum yet.

Haha, it's almost as though Turkey's not in the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2016, 05:36:54 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 05:26:38 am

After the perpetrators were shot, police found that they had killed the priest by slitting his throat. Another hostage is in hospital in critical condition.
There's some reports the bearded men shouted 'Daesh'.
Does not make sense though, I thought Daesh was a curse word for IS, not used by them themselves.

It's just the Arabic acronym, means the same thing. Westerners love it because they get tired of saying "so-called" every time they say Islamic State, and if they say Daesh no one knows what it means so they don't have to bother saying "so-called Daesh", cos it's just the acronym for Dawlat al-Islamiyah f'al-Iraq wa al-Sham. It's supposed to be derogatory cos Daesh sounds like the Arabic words that translate to "to trample on" so whilst Daesh try to appear civilized and shit, the name says they're trampling on stuff. Which is pretty weak if you ask me, since they don't really care if anyone says they're trampling on infidels. Much better off just calling them goat-fucking outcasts, or G(T)FO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on July 26, 2016, 05:40:56 am

I dont think this is more than just theater for interior politics. Or with time, Uncle Erdö will find out that the Russki will not forget. Nor forgive.

Russia still fights a foe that Turkey supports, or at least tolerates, and threat of Islamic Jihadists is very real in both nations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on July 26, 2016, 06:18:30 am

problem is, erdogan is discovering that his allies don't like him at all.
He might want to get closer ties to russia, if not to fully change alliances at least to have another bargaining chip.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 06:56:58 am

President Hollande has confirmed in a press conference that the church assailants claimed to act on behalf of IS.
He say that France will continue it's battle with IS with 'all means available'. Does he mean nukes?

The Vatican has condemned the "barbaric murder" of the 86 year old priest and said that "it's even more gruesome because it happened in a holy place".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 26, 2016, 07:11:48 am

Unlikeliness aside, it would be pretty satisfying to see Raqqa go up in a mushroom cloud

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 26, 2016, 07:14:37 am

Nuke's too fast, dirty bomb plox so they take days or weeks to die of radiation poisoning. I mean, that's where the discussion is going, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 07:17:32 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 26, 2016, 07:07:04 am

Don't you think that's a bit of sensationalist editorialising?

Maybe a bit. I did genuinly wonder though what Hollande meant with 'all means available', with France having the 3d or 4th largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 26, 2016, 07:22:48 am

No matter what means are used, what exactly would be accomplished by complete destruction of Raqqa?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 26, 2016, 07:36:31 am

Quote from: DJ on July 26, 2016, 07:22:48 am

No matter what means are used, what exactly would be accomplished by complete destruction of Raqqa?

It'd be a nightmare for IS to recover, logistically. If the centre of their organisation is gone, it's not a stretch to imagine splinters opening up all over the place.
Morale would be ruined. Capital of the Caliphate, vaporised? Fuck, maybe this war isn't worth fighting any more.
Morale would be ruined on the coalition side, which might give pacifists and progressives enough leverage to convince everyone to stop fighting.
Hundreds of thousands of Sunni Muslims also vaporised. That's a plus for militant Shiites, crusaders, and the alt-right. UN and HRW can suck it.
Finally, we get to see a cool mushroom cloud.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 26, 2016, 07:49:04 am

Yeah, but our problem isn't really the ones in Syria, it's the ones in Europe. Sure, they declare allegiance to IS, but I doubt there's much real connection between them. If there was some sort of a hierarchy, intelligence agencies wouldn't so powerless to prevent these attacks. So yeah, can't really disrupt logistics, and as far as morale is concerned I think nuking the Caliphate would be more likely to radicalize them even more than to demoralize them into quitting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:14:23 am

It's not about flying off to Syria. DJ means that it would possibly radicalize more of the EU-born muslims, and cause more Paris / Nice/ Munich / etc. attacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 26, 2016, 08:17:45 am

Yeah, them flying off to Syria and getting out of our hair is actually a good thing. Especially if they wind up killed by Kurds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 26, 2016, 08:18:05 am

Not to mention that using nukes is against international law. And it would severely wreck relations with other countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:19:52 am

Nah it wouldn't. Everyone still loves the US.
It would be opening Pandora's box though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 26, 2016, 08:42:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:19:52 am

Nah it wouldn't. Everyone still loves the US.
It would be opening Pandora's box though.

Pandoras box already got opened when Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked.

Anyhow, I agree that nuking and levelling the city would just make things worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:50:28 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 26, 2016, 08:21:41 am

Not when we then let them back into the country, after learning how better to kill and having become further radicalised. Which we do.

The French police just reported that one of the church assailants was a man who had been arrested earlier trying to cross the Turkish border into Syria.
He was returned to France, and got a 'Fiche S' which means he was regarded as a danger to the state. He was released under condition of wearing an electronic ankle band, despite the public prosecutor's office appealing against that verdict.

The verdict allowed him to leave his house between 8:30 and 12:30.

http://www.franceinfo.fr/fil-info/article/saint-etienne-du-rouvray-l-un-des-deux-preneurs-d-otages-etait-porteur-d-un-bracelet-electronique-808191

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 26, 2016, 08:55:29 am

I'm really not sure how that helps unless you have someone actually tracking his movements 7/24/60/60

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 26, 2016, 11:35:28 am

Tip 4 french authorities: a ankle band tracker doesn't help much against someone who doesnt care about being arrested, specially since you can't immediately arrest him at the second you notice he's going full allahu ackbar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2016, 03:02:10 pm

mfw the dutch police are better at tracking shitposters than the french police are at tracking known jihadis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 12:57:24 am

Quote from: DJ on July 26, 2016, 08:17:45 am

Yeah, them flying off to Syria and getting out of our hair is actually a good thing. Especially if they wind up killed by Kurds.

>people getting killed
>good thing

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:14:23 am

It's not about flying off to Syria. DJ means that it would possibly radicalize more of the EU-born muslims, and cause more Paris / Nice/ Munich / etc. attacks.

I swear this wouldn't happen nearly as much if authorities actually made an effort to shut down mosques and so on teaching violent Islam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 27, 2016, 01:08:17 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 12:57:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2016, 08:14:23 am

It's not about flying off to Syria. DJ means that it would possibly radicalize more of the EU-born muslims, and cause more Paris / Nice/ Munich / etc. attacks.

I swear this wouldn't happen nearly as much if authorities actually made an effort to shut down mosques and so on teaching violent Islam

They could also work with Mosques that don't to try and find out who the young people in those communities are that are getting radicalized. Parents and community leaders tend to get worried about stuff like that, for many reasons, and people get radicalized outside of the mosques as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 07:30:44 am

Vice president Frans Timmermans stated today on behalf of the EU, that Poland will be given 3 months time to remove the new law instated by the governing PiS party, which makes it impossible for the Constitutional Court to test new laws to the Cosntitution.

If not, Poland will be facing sanctions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 07:37:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 07:30:44 am

Vice president Frans Timmermans stated today on behalf of the EU, that Poland will be given 3 months time to remove the new law instated by the governing PiS party, which makes it impossible for the Constitutional Court to test new laws to the Cosntitution.

If not, Poland will be facing sanctions.

I get the feeling that if a left-wing party was trying to do this, there'd be no EU opposition

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 07:46:22 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 07:37:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 07:30:44 am

Vice president Frans Timmermans stated today on behalf of the EU, that Poland will be given 3 months time to remove the new law instated by the governing PiS party, which makes it impossible for the Constitutional Court to test new laws to the Cosntitution.

If not, Poland will be facing sanctions.

I get the feeling that if a left-wing party was trying to do this, there'd be no EU opposition

Considering that the constitutional court was in the most part staffed by left leaning people that would paralyze the current government given the chance?
Your feeling might be right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 27, 2016, 07:57:35 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 07:37:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 07:30:44 am

Vice president Frans Timmermans stated today on behalf of the EU, that Poland will be given 3 months time to remove the new law instated by the governing PiS party, which makes it impossible for the Constitutional Court to test new laws to the Cosntitution.

If not, Poland will be facing sanctions.

I get the feeling that if a left-wing party was trying to do this, there'd be no EU opposition

Well, a left-wing party didn't. Or any other ruling party for that matter since '89. There was no shortage of lefties in the government since then. Meanwhile, this was one of the first things this government did, along with hijacking media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 08:01:40 am

This is Poland you are talking about. The media are hijacked every time there is a new government in place since the party hurriedly replaces people with their chums wherever and whenever possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 27, 2016, 08:13:30 am

Quote from: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 08:01:40 am

This is Poland you are talking about. The media are hijacked every time there is a new government in place since the party hurriedly replaces people with their chums wherever and whenever possible.

Yes, this is Poland I'm talking about. This government literally passed a law that actively makes doing that easier by firing all the previous directors of public media on the spot and more or less nationalizing them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 08:41:00 am

Yes except TVP is a public broadcaster that was pretty much always nationalized since the late 40's.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 27, 2016, 09:00:19 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 07:37:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 07:30:44 am

Vice president Frans Timmermans stated today on behalf of the EU, that Poland will be given 3 months time to remove the new law instated by the governing PiS party, which makes it impossible for the Constitutional Court to test new laws to the Cosntitution.

If not, Poland will be facing sanctions.

I get the feeling that if a left-wing party was trying to do this, there'd be no EU opposition

Yeah, because the rightwing EU would totally just accept such machinations from a left wing government.

...Wait a minute...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 27, 2016, 09:21:41 am

Quote from: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 08:41:00 am

Yes except TVP is a public broadcaster that was pretty much always nationalized since the late 40's.

Well, no shit, since the late 40s literally almost everything was nationalized. We didn't choose the Soviet lyfe...

Public =/= national. The media law explicitly converts it from a joint-stock company of the Treasury it used to be to national legal entities effective since the beginning of this July.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 09:23:05 am

The FAZ reports that the Munich shooter was a rightwing extremist, "who hated Turks and Arabs and took pride in the fact that he was born on the same date as Adolf Hitler, and considered himself a proud true Aryan because of his Iranian and German ancestry". All 9 deadly casualties turned out to be migrants.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html#GEPC;s3 (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html#GEPC;s3)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 09:38:01 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 09:23:05 am

The FAZ reports that the Munich shooter was a rightwing extremist, "who hated Turks and Arabs and took pride in the fact that he was born on the same date as Adolf Hitler, and considered himself a proud true Aryan because of his Iranian and German ancestry". All 9 deadly casualties turned out to be migrants.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html#GEPC;s3 (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/f-a-z-exklusiv-amoklaeufer-von-muenchen-war-rechtsextremist-14359855.html#GEPC;s3)

Isn't that the German version of The Daily Mail? not sure which ones are reputable.

Anyway, it seems like that every shooter and terrorist is being reported as being 'mentally disturbed' in some form or another, so it's like the headline should be 'all terrorists are insane', which is stretching the definition to the point where insane also means heretic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 27, 2016, 09:40:37 am

Considering how guard dogs became high in demand in germany pepper spray literally ran out of stock and personal firearm sales skyrocketed in austria... i'm actually surprised something like this didn't happen earlier.
The shooter is kinda surprising tho. You'd expect a bald whiter than white neonazi with SS and swastikas tattooed all over him...

Well that's globalization i guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 09:44:44 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 09:38:01 am

Isn't that the German version of The Daily Mail? not sure which ones are reputable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Allgemeine_Zeitung (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Allgemeine_Zeitung)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 12:54:15 pm

The Pope says the world is at war (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-say-world-is-at-war-decries-terrorist-attack-on-french-church-1469631661), obviously he emphasis it isn't a religious war, no, it's a war for money, against christians and atheists, it's a war for natural resources, against jews, it's a war for domination of people, against Yzidis, Buddhists and Hindus, it's definitely not a religious war. pope is smart and knows that if he says it's a religious war against Radical Muslims that totally do not represent Islam, lotta more christians gonna be beheaded in Africa and the Middle East (the few that remained in the region) by Jihadists that totally do not represent Islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 27, 2016, 01:51:19 pm

I'm sure we can offend more people by saying that the most conservative and extreme members of particular groups are perfect representations of that group. Why stop at just Muslims, eh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 27, 2016, 02:35:40 pm

Meanwhile in Turkey, the purging continues, as today 3 news services, 16 television channels, 23 radio stations and 45 newspapers were shut down.

By now over 15000 people have been arrested, amongst whome are 10000 soldiers. 8000 Of those have been formally charged and arrested awaiting trial, the other 7000+ are being held without formal charges, which, by means of the new law, is possible for 30 days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 03:52:15 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 12:54:15 pm

The Pope says the world is at war (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-say-world-is-at-war-decries-terrorist-attack-on-french-church-1469631661), obviously he emphasis it isn't a religious war, no, it's a war for money, against christians and atheists, it's a war for natural resources, against jews, it's a war for domination of people, against Yzidis, Buddhists and Hindus, it's definitely not a religious war. pope is smart and knows that if he says it's a religious war against Radical Muslims that totally do not represent Islam, lotta more christians gonna be beheaded in Africa and the Middle East (the few that remained in the region) by Jihadists that totally do not represent Islam.

From the bit that WSJ allows me to read (stupid paywall), it seems like he meant that we have all forgotten how to live in peace, or something, dunno.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:01:18 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 03:52:15 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 12:54:15 pm

The Pope says the world is at war (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-say-world-is-at-war-decries-terrorist-attack-on-french-church-1469631661), obviously he emphasis it isn't a religious war, no, it's a war for money, against christians and atheists, it's a war for natural resources, against jews, it's a war for domination of people, against Yzidis, Buddhists and Hindus, it's definitely not a religious war. pope is smart and knows that if he says it's a religious war against Radical Muslims that totally do not represent Islam, lotta more christians gonna be beheaded in Africa and the Middle East (the few that remained in the region) by Jihadists that totally do not represent Islam.

From the bit that WSJ allows me to read (stupid paywall), it seems like he meant that we have all forgotten how to live in peace, or something, dunno.....

"We" have all forgotten? how the hell are "we" responsible for these last acts of atrocities?! 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2016, 05:01:46 pm

He means we as in humanity I would assume.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:05:33 pm

So because these Islamists were humans, we are all to blame for their actions?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 05:07:56 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:01:18 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 03:52:15 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 12:54:15 pm

The Pope says the world is at war (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-say-world-is-at-war-decries-terrorist-attack-on-french-church-1469631661), obviously he emphasis it isn't a religious war, no, it's a war for money, against christians and atheists, it's a war for natural resources, against jews, it's a war for domination of people, against Yzidis, Buddhists and Hindus, it's definitely not a religious war. pope is smart and knows that if he says it's a religious war against Radical Muslims that totally do not represent Islam, lotta more christians gonna be beheaded in Africa and the Middle East (the few that remained in the region) by Jihadists that totally do not represent Islam.

From the bit that WSJ allows me to read (stupid paywall), it seems like he meant that we have all forgotten how to live in peace, or something, dunno.....

"We" have all forgotten? how the hell are "we" responsible for these last acts of atrocities?! 

Quote from: Criptfeind on July 27, 2016, 05:01:46 pm

He means we as in humanity I would assume.

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:05:33 pm

So because these Islamists were humans, we are all to blame for their actions?

It would be nice if we could read the whole thing so that we'd know exactly what he meant and not leave it open to interpretation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 27, 2016, 06:31:53 pm

Quote from: scriver on July 27, 2016, 09:00:19 am

Yeah, because the rightwing EU would totally just accept such machinations from a left wing government.

...Wait a minute...

Left as in cosmopolitan liberal, not economic left

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2016, 12:30:32 am

Liberalism is right wing regardless. Especially the neo-liberal school of thought which dominates the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on July 28, 2016, 03:02:27 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 05:07:56 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:01:18 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 27, 2016, 03:52:15 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 12:54:15 pm

The Pope says the world is at war (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-say-world-is-at-war-decries-terrorist-attack-on-french-church-1469631661), obviously he emphasis it isn't a religious war, no, it's a war for money, against christians and atheists, it's a war for natural resources, against jews, it's a war for domination of people, against Yzidis, Buddhists and Hindus, it's definitely not a religious war. pope is smart and knows that if he says it's a religious war against Radical Muslims that totally do not represent Islam, lotta more christians gonna be beheaded in Africa and the Middle East (the few that remained in the region) by Jihadists that totally do not represent Islam.

From the bit that WSJ allows me to read (stupid paywall), it seems like he meant that we have all forgotten how to live in peace, or something, dunno.....

"We" have all forgotten? how the hell are "we" responsible for these last acts of atrocities?! 

Quote from: Criptfeind on July 27, 2016, 05:01:46 pm

He means we as in humanity I would assume.

Quote from: Vilanat on July 27, 2016, 05:05:33 pm

So because these Islamists were humans, we are all to blame for their actions?

It would be nice if we could read the whole thing so that we'd know exactly what he meant and not leave it open to interpretation.

What the pope said, pulled from the WSJ article (the paywall can be circumvented by accessing the page from a google search rather than clicking the link) :

“This holy priest, who died just at the moment that he offered the prayer for the whole church, is one (victim). But how many Christians, how many innocents, how many children?” the pope said, also making a reference to attacks on Christians in Nigeria. “Let’s not be afraid to state this reality. The world is at war because it has lost the peace.”

The pope added that the current violence was over economic and political interests rather than religion. “There is war for money,” he said. “There is war for natural resources. There is war for the domination of peoples. Some might think I am speaking of religious war. No. All religions want peace; it is other people who want war.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on July 28, 2016, 03:26:44 am

Quote from: scriver on July 28, 2016, 12:30:32 am

Liberalism is right wing regardless. Especially the neo-liberal school of thought which dominates the EU.

People should start organizing political views by goal instead of change.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 03:30:08 am

Quote from: scriver on July 28, 2016, 12:30:32 am

Liberalism is right wing regardless. Especially the neo-liberal school of thought which dominates the EU.

Liberalism... is... right-wing? What?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2016, 03:42:59 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 03:30:08 am

Quote from: scriver on July 28, 2016, 12:30:32 am

Liberalism is right wing regardless. Especially the neo-liberal school of thought which dominates the EU.

Liberalism... is... right-wing? What?

I guess it's a difference between European and American definitions. In Europe, left wing is communism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 04:44:24 am

What Americans call liberals EU would call social democrats / greens (although a lot of green parties are actually rather neo-con) / socialists
What EU calls liberals, Americans would call conservatives, with neo-liberals being the same as neo-cons

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2016, 05:13:40 am

Yeah. And it's not just a matter of Europe being "more to the left" either. The classic three pronged ideology map has the socialism prong on the left and then the two others - conservatism and liberalism - on the right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:16:34 am

Quote from: scriver on July 28, 2016, 05:13:40 am

The classic three pronged ideology map has the socialism prong on the left and then the two others - conservatism and liberalism - on the right.

That sounds very American

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2016, 05:35:17 am

Au contraire, my Amy, thinking liberalism isn't right wing is very American.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

So what's authoritarianism? Left? Fuck me, this is completely nonsensical.

NAZIS CONFIRMED FOR RADICAL LEFTIES

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 28, 2016, 05:48:10 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

So what's authoritarianism? Left? Fuck me, this is completely nonsensical.

NAZIS CONFIRMED FOR RADICAL LEFTIES

Authoritarianism is its own thing

Quote from: Covenant on July 27, 2016, 10:24:48 am

'In the 2013 elections the paper was among the supporters of the Christian Democrats'
Mein Gott, ich bin sehr surprizenpanzerfaust.
The questions I'd like definitively answered are, was the female Muslim eyewitness who reported that the shooter shouted 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack correct? And was the attacker (who was a second-generation immigrant) a Muslim himself?

Tbh I think it's funnier if he was larping as a nazi
Makes his shouting match with balcony dude even funnier "I'M GERMAN" "No you're not" lmao, /int/ shitposting gone violent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2016, 05:57:40 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

So what's authoritarianism? Left? Fuck me, this is completely nonsensical.

Neither and all. Any one of them could be authoritarian. Authoritarianism is not a prong of it's own in this model but a modifier, so to speak. You could have authoritarian socialism (communism), authoritarian conservatism (Franco's Spain), or authoritarian liberalism (basically every 19th century nation before the workers' movements gained influence).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:59:38 am

Authoritarian liberalism doesn't sound very liberal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2016, 06:14:29 am

That's a meaningless statement.

Being wage slaves working 12-18 hours a day for pennies isn't particularly free either, but it's still liberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 06:27:08 am

Yeah because liberalism as in personal freedoms, etc., is distinct from economic liberalism, which often involves wage slavery

What I don't get is putting both liberalism and conservatism on the same side of the spectrum

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 06:42:17 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

NAZIS CONFIRMED FOR RADICAL LEFTIES

Technically you could argue they were.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei.
Socialist worker's party, sounds pretty left to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 28, 2016, 07:28:47 am

You could argue that fascism itself was more similar to communism than anything else. Mao himself famously commented on how Mussolini was the perfect guy to implement communism on Europe.

Lets see:

State has a firm grip over the market, wealth, goods production, resources and people's lives in general: check;
People with government jobs and connections live significantly better off than everyone who doesnt: check;
The individual is seen as only part of the state, and must work towards whats better for the state, because the state knows whats best for everyone: check;
General disdain for individual human rights in favor of the perceived idea of "collective": check;
Compulsory military service, militarism, and the army being one of the state's most overt manifestations of power and almost omnipresent in society: check;
Pro government propaganda is the norm and the state has full or almost full control of the media in general: check;
etc.
Free market capitalism as the worst thing ever: check;

Even on the points that the two ideologies differed the most, there was a certain degree of similarity. While soviet russia and china sought to eliminate religion altogether, it still tried to exploit it for its own purposes (soviet russia tried to use the eastern orthodox church to spread its doctrine, which was only half succesful, and they even tried to create a concept of a "soviet zion", trying to replace hebrew with yiddish and substitute the core of judaism with communist doctrine, which also failed and only resulted in pogroms later). Fascism, on the other hand, generally never really rejected religion and instead tried to fully absorb it into the state, which was more succesful, but still didn't quite work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 28, 2016, 07:45:27 am

Question is... Was nazi germany an authoritarian of totalitarian regime?
Hitler being the glorious leader that cannot commit a mistake kinda hints at the latter.

TempAcc... yeah guess i have to agree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapitalism_(concept_in_Italian_Fascism)

Still the Italian fascists wanted to create a corporate state rather than a communist utopia where everyone is equal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 28, 2016, 02:13:22 pm

Far as I know the only real economic/political difference between Fascism and Stalinist-brand Communism is what's being used as the motivating factor/inspirational force. Is it nationalism, love of country, and Supreme Leader, or is it love of your fellow man, class divide, and Glorious Leader?

Communism only seems to work when everyone wants to be part of it. Small, voluntary communities. It's hard to force people to do their share in communism, and trying to tends to result in Bad Things. You can't really use economic incentives to get people to work like capitalism does, since that's the whole point of communism, so you have to use things like threats of violence, or love of country/fellows. Since those are so important to maintaining the economy, anything that dissents from that ideological motivation is a threat.

Although, I did read an interesting article about how it almost worked, their economy almost made it through successfully, with a plan to implement shadow markets to try and allocate resources more effectively. Capitalists even thought communism would be more successful, economically speaking, but the idea was that the freedom of choice was more important than sheer economic growth. But then Stalin and the bureaucracy killed it because it looked too much like capitalism and what are these western-educated traitor economists doing to our beautiful communism? They must be purged!

Capitalism works because it's robust. It doesn't need a whole lot of infrastructure, only enough for people to be able to specialize and trade just a bit. It still has quite a few issues that I think might not be solvable until we have a one-world-government. Until then, multinational entities can just pull out of a country and hold economic wellbeing hostage in order to accumulate money at their leisure, and countries will be hostile enough to welcome the weakening of their rival rather than working together to tax those super-rich entities and redistributing the excess to help those at the bottom.

Incentive structures are hard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on July 28, 2016, 04:21:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 06:42:17 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

NAZIS CONFIRMED FOR RADICAL LEFTIES

Technically you could argue they were.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei.
Socialist worker's party, sounds pretty left to me.

"National Socialist" would've sounded like "Democratic Republican" or "Conservative Labour". It was essentially nonsense, which was part of the point. Hitler was attempting to bridge his appeal to the same sort of young post-war generation militants who were also joining the paramilitary wings of the communists and democratic socialists, and claim some sort of worker credibility (when the Nazis in reality were mostly middle-class and threw the worker rhetoric they campaigned on out the window depending on who was in the room).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 04:49:05 pm

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan is preparing his next presidential decree under martial law.
He wants to change the constitution, to make the armed forces and the intelligence service fall directly under his command.

It is expected that the high military council (YAS) will agree to that. (Ofcourse they will, anyone who would oppose is either in prison or fired).

I guess that was expected, as he has already said long before the coup that he wants to change his presidency to be more like the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 07:41:04 pm

Yeah that's not going to end well at all

Rip democracy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2016, 03:50:33 am

FBI director James Comey has warned the EU that the Paris, Nice and Munich attacks are just a glimpse of what the EU can expect once IS is beaten in Syria.

"At some point, we will see an unprecedented exodus of terrorists from Syria. The military coalition will succeed in beating IS, but through the fingers of that crush are going to come hundreds of really dangerous people and they are going to flow primarily to Western Europe. But some could well end up in the United States. Not all IS killers will be killed on the battlefield".

Sadly, I think he may be right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/world/isis-attacks.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/world/isis-attacks.html?_r=0)

Meanwhile in France, premier Valls has said that France needs to rebuild it's relationship to muslims from scratch. He wants to start with a new law to only allow French-schooled imams to preach in mosques, and forbid foreign funding of religious organisations. Not sure if he only means muslims, or he also wants the Vatican to stop paying for churches and priests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 29, 2016, 06:36:41 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on July 28, 2016, 04:21:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 06:42:17 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 05:38:00 am

NAZIS CONFIRMED FOR RADICAL LEFTIES

Technically you could argue they were.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei.
Socialist worker's party, sounds pretty left to me.

"National Socialist" would've sounded like "Democratic Republican" or "Conservative Labour". It was essentially nonsense, which was part of the point. Hitler was attempting to bridge his appeal to the same sort of young post-war generation militants who were also joining the paramilitary wings of the communists and democratic socialists, and claim some sort of worker credibility (when the Nazis in reality were mostly middle-class and threw the worker rhetoric they campaigned on out the window depending on who was in the room).

Tell that to Stalin. 'Communism in one country' essentially is what you could describe as national socialism, i.e. a nationalistic state with a state socialist economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 29, 2016, 07:17:55 am

Huh? USSR was extremely cosmopolitan. Stalin's goal was to bring the entire world (eventually) under one communist state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on July 29, 2016, 07:31:23 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 29, 2016, 07:17:55 am

Huh? USSR was extremely cosmopolitan. Stalin's goal was to bring the entire world (eventually) under one communist state.

Eventually being the key word. The policy was to build up the USSR, even at the cost of international communist movements. In fact, supporting globally revolutionizationing was a good way to be denounced as a Trotskyist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 29, 2016, 07:43:41 am

And it started kinda breaking down once the soviet union tried to exert control over anything that didn't fall under the category of "small country we can easily subjugate if they don't agree with us immediately". The Soviet Union and communist China never really did become a single entity and had its fair share of differences, despite what the anime communists of today insist on. Then there's south american and cuban communism which is also a thing of its own.

The USSR was cosmopolitan up to the point you were ok with being subjugated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 29, 2016, 08:44:47 am

Also keep in mind that Stalin was only communist when it suited him. Unlike Lenin, his main goal was to just get as much power as he could. He ruled through fear to the point that when he died, it took nearly an entire day for someone to muster enough courage to go into his office to check on him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 08:52:17 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 29, 2016, 08:44:47 am

Also keep in mind that Stalin was only communist when it suited him. Unlike Lenin, his main goal was to just get as much power as he could. He ruled through fear to the point that when he died, it took nearly an entire day for someone to muster enough courage to go into his office to check on him.

That or they just wanted to make sure he's dead completely before entering the office lest they actually get to save him and get unpersoned for seeing him in a moment of weakness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2016, 09:02:04 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 28, 2016, 04:49:05 pm

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan is preparing his next presidential decree under martial law.
He wants to change the constitution, to make the armed forces and the intelligence service fall directly under his command.

It is expected that the high military council (YAS) will agree to that. (Ofcourse they will, anyone who would oppose is either in prison or fired).

I guess that was expected, as he has already said long before the coup that he wants to change his presidency to be more like the US.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on July 28, 2016, 07:41:04 pm

Yeah that's not going to end well at all

Rip democracy

I thought he was trying to make it like Nazi Germany? In any case, he is completely missing the point of separation of powers with the three branches. So, in his attempt to transition from a parliamentary to a presidential system, he's still doing it wrong. Needs 200% less iron fist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2016, 09:11:05 am

Also term limits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2016, 09:18:09 am

So, have Kemalists been completely eradicated from the military or what?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2016, 09:22:54 am

Quote from: DJ on July 29, 2016, 09:18:09 am

So, have Kemalists been completely eradicated from the military or what?

I think you mean Gulenists? It's probably not possible to completely eradicate all of them as there will still be some who are secretly fans of Gulen or Kemal and doing it in secret.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 29, 2016, 09:28:02 am

Erdogan just wants to further remake the country in his image so he becomes another ~great leader~ who can easily trample the constitution and essentialy do whatever he wants, maybe even stablish a dinasty while at the same time claiming turkey is a democracy (hello, cuba, venezuela, etc). The plan is to make turkey stop being turkey and become erdogan's proprierty. He already stablished his own group of fanatical followers and arrested/killed his main oppositors, the next step is trampling the constitution, something he can easily do.

Things like this only make it even more obvious that the UN is a joke.

Anyway, on the whole SOVIET RUSHIYA stuff, even Lenin himself noticed the full misery that the new government was causing to the people and the ruinous effect of his economical ideas put into practice (which don't go much deeper than "make the city person share things with the farm person and the farm person share things with the city person), so once shit hit the fan, he did try to revert things back to an extent, but was stopped by fellow party members and stalin, since that would essentialy be like accepting defeat and would result in massive loss of support and power as a result.

Lenin knew Stalin was a massive power hungry dweeb, but overestimated his own influence and ended up thrown under the bus. Lenin seems to me as a guy who legitimally believed the things he said, but once he noticed shit was just ruining the very people he wanted to help and had no chance of creating the society he envisioned in the first place, he tried to revert it and got smashed by the monsters he helped to create.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2016, 09:35:06 am

Quote from: Covenant on July 29, 2016, 09:26:06 am

The Kemalists and the Gulenists (to what extent they even exist in the military) are pretty different.

I had never heard of the Kemalists (though I think I recall Kemal being one of the Prime Ministers?) before it got posted here.

Quote from: TempAcc on July 29, 2016, 09:28:02 am

Erdogan just wants to further remake the country in his image so he becomes another ~great leader~ who can easily trample the constitution and essentialy do whatever he wants, maybe even stablish a dinasty while at the same time claiming turkey is a democracy (hello, cuba, venezuela, etc). The plan is to make turkey stop being turkey and become erdogan's proprierty. He already stablished his own group of fanatical followers and arrested/killed his main oppositors, the next step is trampling the constitution, something he can easily do.

Things like this only make it even more obvious that the UN is a joke.

I thought the UN was developed as a common forum for leaders to air their grievances without going to war? Not that it stopped Putin.

And yes, I know that arguably the UN helped prevent a WWIII or helped made things more peaceful, but that's a really, really, difficult 'what if' to simulate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2016, 09:58:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 29, 2016, 09:35:06 am

I had never heard of the Kemalists (though I think I recall Kemal being one of the Prime Ministers?) before it got posted here.

Never ever say that to a Turk, lol. "One of the Prime ministers".
Mustafa Kemal 'Atatürk' was the founder of the Turkish Republic and he instated secularism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk)

Kemalists are those who defend the principles of the original Turkish Republic and secularism in his name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism)

Let's just say kemalism is much older and widespread in Turkey than Gulen followers are.

Note that Erdogan most definitly is not a kemalist. He is an islamist. Gulen is an islamist too, albeit a moderate one.

As for DJ's question; yes, most kemalists had already been demoted or otherwise removed from positions of power in the military before the coup. Erdogan has been working on that for a while. The coup was not staged by kemalists. If they had given support to it it would very likely have succeeded, because despite losing positions of high rank, there's still a lot of kemalist in the lower ranks.
Who did stage the coup? Dunno. Erdogan says it was Gulen followers. Personally I am starting to get more and more convinced the whole thing was a false flag.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2016, 10:45:57 am

Meanwhile in Sweden, the government has announced that it will fund a large population study into the Swedes' sexual activities, because media have been reporting for a while now that Swedes are having less and less sex.

Gabriël Wikstrom, minister of Public Health, said "it is important that we investigate if this is really the case, and if so, what could be the cause", in an interview with Dagens Nyheter, a major Swedish newspaper. He points out that "if stress or other health problems influence sex drive, this is also a political problem".

It's not the first time the Swedish population have been comprehensively interviewed about their sex life. 20 years ago, a study was also done by the government.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/zorgen-over-seksleven-zweedse-burgers-overheid-begint-groot-onderzoek~a4348412/

Today, the minister also write an opinion piece on it in the Dagens Nyheter:
http://www.dn.se/debatt/nu-gor-vi-forsta-studien-av-svenskars-sexvanor-pa-20-ar/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 01:15:22 pm

Looks like pathological racists started funding their own scientific studies now to make their delusions seem legit. (http://socialtechnologies.com.au/a-general-social-impact-assessment-of-mosques-in-australian-neighbourhoods/#_edn32)

Quote from: Some australian bigot

2014 as many as 18 per cent were negative towards Muslims, but only 2 per cent towards Buddhists. In the same year, when the survey was conducted more anonymously online, overall negative attitudes towards Muslims rose to 44 per cent.

And those people are too afraid to even be openly racist unless anonymous. That's just disgusting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 29, 2016, 01:17:32 pm

so any study you don't agree with is pathological?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2016, 01:18:04 pm

Quote from: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 01:15:22 pm

Looks like pathological racists started funding their own scientific studies now to make their delusions seem legit. (http://socialtechnologies.com.au/a-general-social-impact-assessment-of-mosques-in-australian-neighbourhoods/#_edn32)


And those people are too afraid to even be openly racist unless anonymous. That's just disgusting.

I think this should go into the Australasian thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 01:23:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 29, 2016, 01:18:04 pm

Quote from: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 01:15:22 pm

Looks like pathological racists started funding their own scientific studies now to make their delusions seem legit. (http://socialtechnologies.com.au/a-general-social-impact-assessment-of-mosques-in-australian-neighbourhoods/#_edn32)


And those people are too afraid to even be openly racist unless anonymous. That's just disgusting.

I think this should go into the Australasian thread

Dunno it fits both EU and AUS since the bogus "study" mentions EU Muslim communities a lot as well.

Quote from: LoSboccacc on July 29, 2016, 01:17:32 pm

so any study you don't agree with is pathological?

Only when it's blatantly racist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Virtz on July 29, 2016, 04:49:41 pm

Muslim's a race now?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 05:11:48 pm

Quote from: Virtz on July 29, 2016, 04:49:41 pm

Muslim's a race now?

They are mostly arabic and black.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MarcAFK on July 29, 2016, 06:14:37 pm

Quote from: Virtz on July 29, 2016, 04:49:41 pm

Muslim's a race now?

A race for your hearts and mind. With bullets and beheadings, what's not to love!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 29, 2016, 06:35:45 pm

Quote from: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 05:11:48 pm

They are mostly arabic and black.

Asia and North Africa don't exist eh

Also having higher levels of skin melanin has fuckall do do with Islam. People have negative views towards Muslims because Muslims keep blowing people up. and Muslim countries are extremely barbaric.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 29, 2016, 07:11:58 pm

Quote from: Brigands on July 29, 2016, 01:15:22 pm

Quote from: Some australian bigot

2014 as many as 18 per cent were negative towards Muslims, but only 2 per cent towards Buddhists. In the same year, when the survey was conducted more anonymously online, overall negative attitudes towards Muslims rose to 44 per cent.

And those people are too afraid to even be openly racist unless anonymous. That's just disgusting.

I'd like to ask you to reconsider. You are saying, effectively, that you would rather, all else being equal, that these people would be comfortable being racist openly. Or islamophobic, or whatever term you might prefer. Leaving aside the immense potential for temporal differences to affect polling based on media coverage. And the bias of the internet itself, since it's unlikely the same people are being polled.

Also, racism has been funding studies to justify itself for a long time now. Not really a surprise.

Pathological is probably false, however.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2016, 08:48:03 pm

Quote stealing..., okay, cloning, from the other thread:

Quote from: greatorder on July 29, 2016, 07:39:18 pm

Anyway, it's OK guys! Erdogan's democratic! He's dropping insult lawsuits! He also tells you to mind your own damn business. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36925723)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 30, 2016, 04:58:48 am

Kilometers of traffic jam are forming in the Netherlands, as police and intelligence services are stopping and checking every single car on it's way to Schiphol airport.
According to intelligence services there are 'signals' of a threat. People going on holiday and having to catch a plane have been advised to leave some extra hours in advance if they want to make it to their flight in time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 31, 2016, 04:46:51 pm

Quote from: http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/turkey-threatens-eu-migrant-deal-with-october-visa-ultimatum_473902.html

Berlin (dpa) - Turkey is threatening to scrap a migrant deal reached this year with the European Union if the 28-member bloc does not provide visa exemptions for Turkish citizens by October.

"If a visa liberalization is not reached, we will be forced to distance ourselves from the migrant-return arrangement and the agreement from March 18," Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said in remarks to German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, published Monday.

The EU struck a wide-ranging agreement with Turkey in March aimed at stemming the flow of migrants and asylum seekers trying to reach the bloc. In return, the bloc agreed to pay for refugee projects in Turkey and offered the prospect of visa-free travel for Turkish citizens visiting the EU, among other benefits.

The visa requirement for Turkish citizens travelling to the EU was originally due to be lifted in July, but the move was stalled because Turkey has not yet fulfilled all 72 criteria for the lifting, among them a reform of a controversial Turkish law on terrorism.

The migration deal works because Turkey has embraced "very serious measures," including a crackdown on human traffickers, Cavusoglu told the paper.

"But all of that is dependent on the lifting of visa requirements for our citizens, which is an article of the March 18 agreement," the minister said.

Cavusoglu asserted that his comments were not meant as a threat.

tl;dr Turkey is threatening Europe with refugees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 31, 2016, 04:53:26 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on July 31, 2016, 04:46:51 pm

Quote from: http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/turkey-threatens-eu-migrant-deal-with-october-visa-ultimatum_473902.html

Berlin (dpa) - Turkey is threatening to scrap a migrant deal reached this year with the European Union if the 28-member bloc does not provide visa exemptions for Turkish citizens by October.

"If a visa liberalization is not reached, we will be forced to distance ourselves from the migrant-return arrangement and the agreement from March 18," Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said in remarks to German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, published Monday.

The EU struck a wide-ranging agreement with Turkey in March aimed at stemming the flow of migrants and asylum seekers trying to reach the bloc. In return, the bloc agreed to pay for refugee projects in Turkey and offered the prospect of visa-free travel for Turkish citizens visiting the EU, among other benefits.

The visa requirement for Turkish citizens travelling to the EU was originally due to be lifted in July, but the move was stalled because Turkey has not yet fulfilled all 72 criteria for the lifting, among them a reform of a controversial Turkish law on terrorism.

The migration deal works because Turkey has embraced "very serious measures," including a crackdown on human traffickers, Cavusoglu told the paper.

"But all of that is dependent on the lifting of visa requirements for our citizens, which is an article of the March 18 agreement," the minister said.

Cavusoglu asserted that his comments were not meant as a threat.

tl;dr Turkey is threatening Europe with refugees.

I can see why tbh, and I think the Euros pretty squarely shot themselves in the foot on this one. If the Turks aren't getting any of the things they were promised in return for upholding their end of the bargain, why should they keep on honoring it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 31, 2016, 04:57:52 pm

Erdogan wants to make it look like he's standing up to the big bad yooros.

Looks like he's trying to do it by throwing his toys out the pram though. He won't get any good deals by refusing to abide by the terms of previous ones.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 31, 2016, 05:20:23 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 31, 2016, 04:57:52 pm

Erdogan wants to make it look like he's standing up to the big bad yooros.

Looks like he's trying to do it by throwing his toys out the pram though. He won't get any good deals by refusing to abide by the terms of previous ones.

Turkey's not getting anything they were promised with this deal. None of the financial aid, none of the loosening of visa requirements. The European Union very clearly has no intention of upholding it's end of the bargain, so again, why should Turkey?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on July 31, 2016, 05:27:06 pm

The deal for visa-free travel and monetary aid was that Turkey would fill 72 criteria in addition to holding refugees. They haven't fulfilled them, so they get jack shit. I don't see the problem here, Turkey has signed the deal and knew the conditions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 31, 2016, 05:31:14 pm

Quote from: Baffler on July 31, 2016, 05:20:23 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 31, 2016, 04:57:52 pm

Erdogan wants to make it look like he's standing up to the big bad yooros.

Looks like he's trying to do it by throwing his toys out the pram though. He won't get any good deals by refusing to abide by the terms of previous ones.

Turkey's not getting anything they were promised with this deal. None of the financial aid, none of the loosening of visa requirements. The European Union very clearly has no intention of upholding it's end of the bargain, so again, why should Turkey?

That's just not true, Turkey did already receive at least part of the money and the Visa deal always included a list of criteria, Turkey agreed to this.

But now Erdogan is going full dictator those criteria will never be fullfilled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on July 31, 2016, 05:53:17 pm

Hm, I may need to get better sources. Last I heard Europe had been holding out the money, which was not attached to these criteria, on the basis of Turkey not having met the criteria. It should be interesting to see how this goes forward though. Turkey wants those visa perks, but not nearly as much as Europe wants to stem the flow of migrants, and I'm willing to bet that those now stuck in Turkey would go on to Europe if they could. Whatever schadenfreude I may feel at the EU being in the position of weakness here, though, it's not really a good situation for anyone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 31, 2016, 06:18:12 pm

Quote from: Baffler on July 31, 2016, 05:53:17 pm

Hm, I may need to get better sources. Last I heard Europe had been holding out the money, which was not attached to these criteria, on the basis of Turkey not having met the criteria. It should be interesting to see how this goes forward though. Turkey wants those visa perks, but not nearly as much as Europe wants to stem the flow of migrants, and I'm willing to bet that those now stuck in Turkey would go on to Europe if they could. Whatever schadenfreude I may feel at the EU being in the position of weakness here, though, it's not really a good situation for anyone.

wouldn't really call it such a position of weakness, even if cancelled the deal will still have prevented a lot of refugees at a height of the crisis, worst that can happen is going back to the old situation, though I doubt we would see as much refugees trying to cross as before the deal. It might also very well be that the border just remains closed from the EU side.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 31, 2016, 07:16:07 pm

Refugee influx has decreased by so much that there's already shelters and detention centers being shut down here in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 31, 2016, 08:25:27 pm

Meanwhile, a number of parties in NZ are taking up "increase the refugee quota" as official policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on August 01, 2016, 01:44:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 31, 2016, 07:16:07 pm

Refugee influx has decreased by so much that there's already shelters and detention centers being shut down here in the Netherlands.

I have a feeling that's a mistake. Last year they originally underestimated the influx by about a million. Sure, because of the deal this year might be slow, but if it falls through, next year will be another 2015.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miljan on August 01, 2016, 06:41:22 am

Over 30 000 turks protest in Germany against coup, in support of Turkish President Erdogan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoEkbRYNprw

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 01, 2016, 06:42:20 am

Goddamn populists

What's next, protests in Russia in support of Trump?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 01, 2016, 07:44:12 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 01, 2016, 06:42:20 am

Goddamn populists

What's next, protests in Russia in support of Trump?

Trump for Russian president!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 01, 2016, 08:29:58 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 01, 2016, 07:44:12 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 01, 2016, 06:42:20 am

Goddamn populists

What's next, protests in Russia in support of Trump?

Trump for Russian president!

Spoiler: Make Russia great again! (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Coo58C9VYAALkZV.jpg)

(god, that smug face is fucking unbearable to look at)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 06:33:43 am

1. Erdogan sends refugees to the Aegean
2. Merkel sends them back
3. ???
Why does the EU think bowing down to a vastly less powerful entity is preferable?

*EDIT
According to local newspaper Het Nieuwsblad, a man who said he was an asylum seeker knocked on the vicar's door  on Sunday and asked if he could use the shower. Father Vanderlee agreed and let the man inside – but after showering he is said to have demanded money from the priest. When Father Vanderlee refused, the man allegedly stabbed him before fleeing the scene. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/01/belgian-priest-stabbed-in-his-home-after-refusing-to-give-cash-t/)

This is the future you chose

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 02, 2016, 06:38:21 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 06:33:43 am

1. Erdogan sends refugees to the Aegean
2. Merkel sends them back
3. ???
Why does the EU think bowing down to a vastly less powerful entity is preferable?

Turk is the new German Aryan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really dont know. The submissive indeciveness is really hurting Europe. The Syrian madness too could have been stopped years ago at a cheaper price, in both euros and human lives, compared to millions of refugees but no... 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 06:45:11 am

Quote from: Erkki on August 02, 2016, 06:38:21 am

Turk is the new German Aryan.

You joke, but that mass shooter who wasn't doing it for jihad, there was a fair chance he was an aryan supremacist, which is why he got so triggered when balcony lad kept taunting him for being a Turk

Spoiler: Behold the footsoldier of the reich and despair (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/So1S7iR.png)

100% Indo-Aryan phenotype

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 02, 2016, 10:55:39 am

Well, many Iranians do consider themselves Aryans. Iirc, that's where the name Iran comes from, even.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a relatively big aryan-supremacist subculture in Iran as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 11:09:20 am

I'll have to derail this derail for some substantial noos

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jun/05/imf-underestimated-damage-austerity-would-do-to-greece
Sheeeeeeit

Hey Scriver, weren't you the one of the forumites who kept going on about how the EU was setting up Greece for further disaster? Cos looks like it, you were right

Quote

The International Monetary Fund’s top staff misled their own board, made a series of calamitous misjudgments in Greece, became euphoric cheerleaders for the euro project, ignored warning signs of impending crisis, and collectively failed to grasp an elemental concept of currency theory.
The report by the IMF’s Independent Evaluation Office (IEO) goes above the head of the managing director, Christine Lagarde. It answers solely to the board of executive directors, and those from Asia and Latin America are clearly incensed at the way European Union insiders used the fund to rescue their own rich currency union and banking system.
The three main bailouts for Greece, Portugal and Ireland were unprecedented in scale and character. The trio were each allowed to borrow over 2,000pc of their allocated quota – more than three times the normal limit – and accounted for 80pc of all lending by the fund between 2011 and 2014.
The report said the whole approach to the eurozone was characterised by “groupthink” and intellectual capture. They had no fall-back plans on how to tackle a systemic crisis in the eurozone – or how to deal with the politics of a multinational currency union – because they had ruled out any possibility that it could happen.
“Before the launch of the euro, the IMF’s public statements tended to emphasise the advantages of the common currency," it said. Some staff members warned that the design of the euro was fundamentally flawed but they were overruled.
“After a heated internal debate, the view supportive of what was perceived to be Europe’s political project ultimately prevailed,” it said.
This pro-EMU bias continued to corrupt their thinking for years. “The IMF remained upbeat about the soundness of the European banking system and the quality of banking supervision in euro-area countries until after the start of the global financial crisis in mid-2007. This lapse was largely due to the IMF’s readiness to take the reassurances of national and euro area authorities at face value,” it said.

I'm so sorry Europoors, you used to be Euromonies, now you have no monies, no countries and all on the account of certified idiots living in informational myopia

This is why you need national democracy, you have to take power away from unaccountable idiots so that when they ruin an entire continent, you ruin their lives too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 11:41:56 am

British newspapers? Clearly an unbiased source for anything related to EU. Surely we must trust them telling us how "EU is totally bad", and how "Britain is totally okay while leaving the EU".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 12:20:07 pm

Torygraph = Hates EU
Guardian = Loves EU

Both saying the same thing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 12:55:37 pm

I'll wait until BBC responds.

Because that's the only British media source left that I think is trustworthy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 02, 2016, 01:13:35 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 12:55:37 pm

I'll wait until BBC responds.

Because that's the only British media source left that I think is trustworthy.

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 01:31:58 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 02, 2016, 01:13:35 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 12:55:37 pm

I'll wait until BBC responds.

Because that's the only British media source left that I think is trustworthy.

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

In fact, they're the most trustworthy source I think there is on Earth. IIRC, they are also pro-Remain, so that indicator of sanity also checks out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 02, 2016, 01:33:37 pm

Quote

Hey Scriver, weren't you the one of the forumites who kept going on about how the EU was setting up Greece for further disaster? Cos looks like it, you were right

You're probably thinking of mainiac, his posts were much more substantial than mine usually is.

But I certainly thought it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 02, 2016, 02:03:04 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 01:31:58 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 02, 2016, 01:13:35 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on August 02, 2016, 12:55:37 pm

I'll wait until BBC responds.

Because that's the only British media source left that I think is trustworthy.

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

In fact, they're the most trustworthy source I think there is on Earth. IIRC, they are also pro-Remain, so that indicator of sanity also checks out.

Journalists are supposed to remain impartial, the BBC in particular, given it's a public broadcaster.

Anyhow: Current BBC political editor manufactures news story (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stephen-doughty-labour-mps-jeremy-corbyn-on-air-resignation-prearranged-by-the-bbc-a6801846.html).

Former BBC political editor lies (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_XhTALHQzI).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 03:05:33 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 02, 2016, 02:03:04 pm

Journalists are supposed to remain impartial, the BBC in particular, given it's a public broadcaster.

Anyhow: Current BBC political editor manufactures news story (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stephen-doughty-labour-mps-jeremy-corbyn-on-air-resignation-prearranged-by-the-bbc-a6801846.html).

Former BBC political editor lies (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_XhTALHQzI).

Lmao that's reaching much

Quote

She highlighted a series of tweets about both the left wing and right wing bias of Newsnight regarding the same edition of the programme

Also lol, "manufactures", they didn't force Stephen to resign, they got the exclusive. Also lol @ right wing bias, the Beeb has driven diversity harder than any Brit institution shot of the gov
Should've seen one of our QT where Beeb stacked the audience 3/5 left wing and 2/5 Tory, then pretended it was even split, before announcing that it was 3/5 left wing after it was politically insignificant. Organized, or accident?

That's the thing about Beeb bias, in that it's mutable, and everyone is convinced it's against them. But if it's against everyone, to whom is it biased? To that end the Beeb is second to none, except Reuters who I think as of late have been trying harder than Beeb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 02, 2016, 03:38:51 pm

Joseph Stiglitz ripped IMF to shreds 15 years ago for the austerity BS. He asked them why they did a whole range of policies that wrecked asian economies after the 1998 Asian meltdown and the only answer was "that's what we always tell them to do". Basically they tell you to tighten your belt and sell everything off, while eliminating all barriers to foreign ownership, regardless of what the actual circumstances are like in a per-country basis. In fact, the asian meltdown occurred in part because IMF previously pushed financial deregulation on Asia in the decade before that, which made things like dependence on foreign capital more intense, and made it easier for capital flight to exacerbate any economic hiccup. In other words, they have their own agenda (which is about opening up markets to corporate investors, and bailing out same investors if things subsequently collapse) and always push same policies regardless of the specific circumstances of any country. They're still doing the same shit the same way almost 20 years after Stiglitz (who was chief economist of the World Bank) called them out for that behavior.

As you probably notice, the successful countries don't actually operate the way the IMF tells you to do things, although they pull the strings of the IMF. It's a case of "do as we tell you, not as we do!" A common sense approach is to save in the good years, spend in the bad years. The only problem is that it's not politically expedient to pull the brakes on government spending during the boom years. But it's something that really needs to happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 02, 2016, 05:43:51 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 02, 2016, 04:35:58 pm

It's the Express, but still relevant (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/695312/BBC-seeking-researcher-Panorama-only-apply-ethnic-minority).

Quote from: The article

A spokeswoman for BBC defended the advert.
She said: “This is not a job, but simply a training and development opportunity.

Funny that; my companies in the Virgin Islands aren't tax havens, they're simply legitimate holding corporations.

Spoiler: Mfw I'm BBC director (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/Hv3RYF9.png)

Quote from: Reelya on August 02, 2016, 03:38:51 pm

Joseph Stiglitz ripped IMF to shreds 15 years ago for the austerity BS. He asked them why they did a whole range of policies that wrecked asian economies after the 1998 Asian meltdown and the only answer was "that's what we always tell them to do". Basically they tell you to tighten your belt and sell everything off, while eliminating all barriers to foreign ownership, regardless of what the actual circumstances are like in a per-country basis. In fact, the asian meltdown occurred in part because IMF previously pushed financial deregulation on Asia in the decade before that, which made things like dependence on foreign capital more intense, and made it easier for capital flight to exacerbate any economic hiccup. In other words, they have their own agenda (which is about opening up markets to corporate investors, and bailing out same investors if things subsequently collapse) and always push same policies regardless of the specific circumstances of any country. They're still doing the same shit the same way almost 20 years after Stiglitz (who was chief economist of the World Bank) called them out for that behavior.

I thought the IMF's goal was to create a global reserve currency to supplant the Dollar, which is why they so obsequiously stuck to the Eurozone, even if it meant the US had to pay some of the cost, developing economies were not given the loans they needed to actually develop, and the Eurozone was proving to be more intellectual wank than actual money in the bank.
I love this stuff:

Quote

Fund officials had severe doubts about whether Greece's debt would be sustainable even after the first bailout was provided in May 2010 and only agreed to the plan because of fears of contagion.
While it succeeded in keeping Greece in the eurozone, the report admitted the bailout included notable failures.
"Market confidence was not restored, the banking system lost 30% of its deposits and the economy encountered a much deeper than expected recession with exceptionally high unemployment."

Shows how they were clearly clever enough to realize what they were about to do, but chose to ignore these possibilities anyways out of political ambition

Cheeky monkeys

Quote from: Reelya on August 02, 2016, 03:38:51 pm

As you probably notice, the successful countries don't actually operate the way the IMF tells you to do things, although they pull the strings of the IMF. It's a case of "do as we tell you, not as we do!" A common sense approach is to save in the good years, spend in the bad years. The only problem is that it's not politically expedient to pull the brakes on government spending during the boom years. But it's something that really needs to happen.

Yeah that's pretty common sense. I've got nothing more to add on this, you summed it up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 02, 2016, 08:42:34 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 02, 2016, 08:36:02 pm

I really wish politics and common sense intersected more. As it is, they only intersect when common sense is beneficial for politics.

You and me both.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2016, 11:04:40 am

Quote from: greatorder on August 02, 2016, 08:36:02 pm

I really wish politics and common sense intersected more. As it is, they only intersect when common sense is beneficial for politics.

Well the purples with their bloody common sense can get fucked, as a red, I think we should talk about how the blues are even worse than the yellows

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 03, 2016, 09:28:55 pm

Fuckit I'm making the Purple Party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2016, 03:54:42 am

A 19 year old person started slashing people with a knife in the streets of London. One elderly woman died, 5  people were taken to hospital with injuries.
The perpetrator has been tazed and arrested, and is charged with murder.

Police cannot comment on the motive, but cannot rule out terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on August 04, 2016, 08:57:28 am

Motive may never be known, definitely not Islam, mentally ill, etc. etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 04, 2016, 09:28:55 am

Quote from: Morrigi on August 04, 2016, 08:57:28 am

Motive may never be known, definitely not Islam, mentally ill, etc. etc.

¨

A Norwegian with Somali background.

Definitely not terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2016, 02:16:24 pm

Norway YES

Anyways the guy was completely silent when he was stabbing everyone, so probably just a mentally ill migrant nothing to see here

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 04, 2016, 02:23:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2016, 02:16:24 pm

Norway YES

Anyways the guy was completely silent when he was stabbing everyone, so probably just a mentally ill migrant nothing to see here

I'll bet you that disproportionate numbers of people who are poor, and therefore want to move to nicer places, have mental health problems.

Still sucks for the people he stabbed. Hope no one else dies from it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2016, 02:39:04 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 04, 2016, 02:23:22 pm

I'll bet you that disproportionate numbers of people who are poor, and therefore want to move to nicer places, have mental health problems.

Still sucks for the people he stabbed. Hope no one else dies from it.

Everyone wants to move to nice places, the grass is always greener on the other side

One of these days we will succeed in deporting all Scandinavians back to Somalia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 04, 2016, 02:50:44 pm

It just needs to get colder, LW.

Migrantory patterns in humans may come soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2016, 02:57:08 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 04, 2016, 02:50:44 pm

It just needs to get colder, LW.

Migrantory patterns in humans may come soon.

That won't work because we have no Genghis Khan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 04, 2016, 07:02:46 pm

Who's in charge of Mongolia these days?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2016, 07:21:04 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/russia-will-do-what-it-wants-in-rio-olympic-games-brazil-ban-doping/

I guess the IOC is too corrupt or beholden to money to give a strong message to Russia...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2016, 07:23:34 pm

The IOC isn't corrupt, their bribes are 100% legal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2016, 07:26:30 pm

I meant to put that in the Olympics thread......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on August 04, 2016, 10:19:38 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 04, 2016, 07:26:30 pm

I meant to put that in the Olympics thread......

Brasil has a land border with the EU, it's totally on topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 05, 2016, 06:39:00 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 05, 2016, 06:33:05 am

Oh god, that German balcony guy who called the Munich shooter a wanker is getting charged with (possibly among other things) 'insults to the detriment of the dead'. (http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2016/08/03/amoklauf-munchen-oez-anze_n_11314680.html)

For insulting the shooter, or is this unrelated?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 05, 2016, 06:50:31 am

I don't really think there's anything that could come out of German law that would surprise me anymore, even the Swedes can't keep up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 05, 2016, 06:52:52 am

But wasn't the guy alive when he was insulting him?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 05, 2016, 06:57:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 05, 2016, 06:33:05 am

Oh god, that German balcony guy who called the Munich shooter a wanker is getting charged with (possibly among other things) 'insults to the detriment of the dead'. (http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2016/08/03/amoklauf-munchen-oez-anze_n_11314680.html)

Quote

In the corresponding paragraph 189 of the Criminal Code states : "Anyone who disparages the memory of a deceased person, shall be punished with imprisonment up to two years or a fine".

As LW would say, Germany YES!

Does that mean Germans cannot speak ill of Hitler or it's against the law to speak ill of Hitler? Speaking ill of the dead isn't neccesarily nice, but a punishable offense? come on.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 05, 2016, 07:22:15 am

I think you're not allowed to mention Hitler in any way. I bet in history class they refer to him as "he who must not be named".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 05, 2016, 08:01:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 05, 2016, 06:57:17 am

Speaking ill of the dead isn't neccesarily nice, but a punishable offense? come on.....

Animals die, friends die, you will die the same. One thing there is that never die; judgement on a dead man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on August 05, 2016, 08:53:52 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 05, 2016, 06:48:09 am

Also of interest is the fact that the article states (paraphrase) 'Psychologists have praised the guy's attempt to engage with the shooter, which could have led to deescalation of the attack'.

Really? Because it seems to me that his insults may have caused the attacker to extend his rampage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 05, 2016, 08:58:06 am

That's piss-poor justification for the charges

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on August 05, 2016, 08:59:23 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 05, 2016, 08:58:06 am

That's piss-poor justification for the charges

I was not defending the charges. Just contesting the "could have led to the deescalation of the attack" bit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 05, 2016, 09:06:08 am

Quote from: Teneb on August 05, 2016, 08:59:23 am

I was not defending the charges. Just contesting the "could have led to the deescalation of the attack" bit.

Sorry, I was responding generally there.

Though to be fair, insulting the dude could have deescalated things. Not entirely likely seeing as it didn't happen, but still possible. And it's not like the guy could see the future on how things would play out beforehand. Kinda shitty to blame him for... anything, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on August 05, 2016, 09:20:50 am

I think it's allowed to list Hitler's crimes, but probably not to call him a wanker.

Not to mention that you would get in quite a bit of trouble if you called Hitler a wanker while he is somehow in a mall, alive, and holding a gun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 05, 2016, 04:50:08 pm

LW stop being quotable I'm going through signatures too fast even with two slots dedicated to you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 03:47:21 am

At least 13 people dead in pub 'le Cuba Libre' in Rouen, France.
Not terrorism this time though. The ceiling caught fire when people tried to light candles on a birthday cake. From the burning ceiling, toxic fumes were released from the material used for sound isolation, and at least thirteen young people age 18-25 died.

Some people from the surrounding area reported that there had been explosions. The police denies that though. They say the people likely mistook the sound of windows popping from the fire's heat with explosions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on August 06, 2016, 03:59:13 am

how did the roof catch on fire from birthday candles? did they try to light them with a flamethrower, or was it just EXTREMELY flammable?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 04:01:16 am

I guess they forgot to impregnate the sound isolation foam, which is pretty flammable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 06, 2016, 04:03:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 04:01:16 am

I guess they forgot to impregnate the sound isolation foam, which is pretty flammable.

Hehehehe

sorry

ahem

ha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 04:38:41 am

The mayor of a Dutch town has decided to cancel the sheltering of 4 male Syrian refugees, in a street where a young couple live that were witness to, and survivors of the terrorist attack at a tourist beach in Tunesia. The couple are too terrified of groups of muslim men, and the prospect of the 4 men coming to live in their street was sending them into daily panic attacks. After personally visiting the couple and speaking with their doctor, the mayor decided that it would be too detrimental to the couple's wellbeing, and cancelled the deal.

The mayor is now considering either cancelling the shelter altogether, or instead putting a Syrian family with children there instead of 4 men.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 05:57:56 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, a US citizen, employed by NASA, has been arrested in Turkey for 'having ties to the Gulen movement'.

I guess Kerry, who will be going on an official visit to Turkey at the end of this month, will have one more thing to talk with Erdogan about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on August 06, 2016, 07:24:28 am

Oh, fucking great, I move to Germany at the moment people start being Nazis again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on August 06, 2016, 10:21:32 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 03:47:21 am

At least 13 people dead in pub 'le Cuba Libre' in Rouen, France.
Not terrorism this time though. The ceiling caught fire when people tried to light candles on a birthday cake. From the burning ceiling, toxic fumes were released from the material used for sound isolation, and at least thirteen young people age 18-25 died.

Some people from the surrounding area reported that there had been explosions. The police denies that though. They say the people likely mistook the sound of windows popping from the fire's heat with explosions.

Oh hey, it's like people don't see if similar shit happened in other countries to prevent further tragedies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_nightclub_fire).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on August 06, 2016, 10:43:30 am

It's a bad idea to entrust building standards to the builder. There are some areas that restrictive laws would be bad, but building safety isn't one. Of course, that would be associated with higher costs, but it's better than people dying and your capital investment exploding in a fiery inferno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 02:40:49 pm

A guy shouting allahu akhbar charged two police officers with a machete at the Charleroi police station in Belgium. One of the officers was seriously injured in the face and she was rushed to hospital, the other officer was only lightly injured. A third officer shot the perpetrator, who has died in hospital not much later. The Belgian prime minister has returned from his holidays and says "there seems to be strong evidence pointing at this being an act of terrorism".

Slightly sad that so many Jihadis get killed instead of arrested. That's a possible loss of much information on terror networks, which some humane western torture could have divulged.

(or perhaps they only say they were killed and they are being interrogated in a blacksite for the rest of their officially non-existing lives)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 06, 2016, 03:12:41 pm

Torture does not usually work. Building rapport is a more effective means of obtaining information; the innocent say anything to stop the pain, the fanatical give you nothing of value. But of course, building rapport with a terrorist is unthinkable, and the only acceptable means of trying to stop further deaths is with pain.

Especially not with individuals being radicalized. I don't think you need to be armed by financial backers in order to get access to a machete

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 03:52:38 pm

True, machete guy probably had no intel. Guys with AK47s and or bomb vests though would at least know where they got those.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 06, 2016, 03:57:41 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 06, 2016, 03:52:14 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 02:40:49 pm

Slightly sad that so many Jihadis get killed instead of arrested. That's a possible loss of much information on terror networks, which some humane western torture could have divulged.

I'd much rather they were killed than released after a handful of years in a cushy prison cell, only to take another crack at the whole terrorism thing (with the increased knowledge and contacts that comes with a stay in prison, naturally) upon release.

Yeah man prison sure is comfy. Terrorists sure do usually get released after 4-5 years.

Well, maybe in Europe. In US we have the PATRIOT Act to worry about, and prisons run for profit. Maybe you guys are more humane than you might prefer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 06, 2016, 03:59:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 03:52:38 pm

True, machete guy probably had no intel. Guys with AK47s and or bomb vests though would at least know where they got those.

Honestly, I doubt that would give you very much. The world is full of dealers without direct connections to terrorist orgs, they probably use them more than some underground terrorroad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 04:01:56 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 06, 2016, 03:52:14 pm

I'd much rather they were killed than released after a handful of years in a cushy prison cell, only to take another crack at the whole terrorism thing (with the increased knowledge and contacts that comes with a stay in prison, naturally) upon release.

I don't get how anyone in their right mind would release them back into society ever. Even though EU forbids life long imprisonment, there's this thing called mandatory lifelong admission in a psych ward after serving prison sentence for those individuals that are still considered a threat to society, which is completely legal and in compliance with Human Rights. At least we have that in the Netherlands.

If it were up to me I'd put all idiots who went to Syria to join IS and returned to the Netherlands in there. Sadly, indeed, those only get a few months to a few years in prison.
But I'm sure if a real live terrorist were caught in the act, he'd never set foot in society anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on August 06, 2016, 08:53:49 pm

Who accused these people of being in their right minds?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 06, 2016, 08:57:39 pm

See, the thing about locking up someone forever (or until someone "qualified" decides they're "better") really doesn't sound like something that complies with human rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 06, 2016, 09:09:57 pm

Prison is against human rights now? They must've changed them while I wasn't watching.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on August 06, 2016, 09:14:32 pm

EDIT: Actually, just scratch the whole thing.  I suspect I'm reading too much into the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2016, 09:16:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 06, 2016, 05:57:56 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, a US citizen, employed by NASA, has been arrested in Turkey for 'having ties to the Gulen movement'.

I guess Kerry, who will be going on an official visit to Turkey at the end of this month, will have one more thing to talk with Erdogan about.

Is the guy even Turkish or have a Turkish passport?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Morrigi on August 07, 2016, 02:53:21 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 06, 2016, 08:57:39 pm

See, the thing about locking up someone forever (or until someone "qualified" decides they're "better") really doesn't sound like something that complies with human rights.

Without due process of law, you are correct. With it, it is a perfectly justifiable way to keep dangerous criminals from further harming society. Personally, I see nothing wrong with hanging terrorists and mass murderers, as long as there is no doubt whatsoever in their guilt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 03:05:53 am

Death penalty has been phased out for good reason IMO. I don't have an issue with keeping terrorists in a psychiatric facility for an indefinite period, as long as they're given basic necessities and preferably some work to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 03:10:29 am

I always feel like people are too quick to decide that these people have basically had their souls corrupted for life-ever, because they went to a certain part of the world. Little bit more complicated than that. But of course, saying so means I'm a terrorist sympathizer. Because anyone who is Muslim and goes to Syria is a terrorist, and especially everyone who goes home afterwards, those people definitely need to be locked up on sight in isolation forever. Zero doubts as to guilt, is self-evident from Islamicness and Was-In-Syrianess. No need for screening or rehabilitation. Must simply be locked away/killed for good of country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 03:28:44 am

If they went to Syria to join ISIS, then they're terrorists themselves, not just sympathisers. Sympathisers should probably be given some psych eval and surveillance as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 03:47:41 am

Quote from: scriver on August 06, 2016, 09:09:57 pm

Prison is against human rights now? They must've changed them while I wasn't watching.

Prison is not against human rights. Life long imprisonment with no prospect of parole or otherwise ever being released is against human rights.
The EU even has a dispute with the Netherlands about it. We still have life sentence in our law. This used to be okay with the EU, because we have an option for parole (the king can grant that).
However, the last time anyone was paroled over here is over 40 years ago, so now the EU argues that we don't have parole, and we have to scrap life long imprisonment from our law to comply with a verdict from the EU human rights court.

Putting someone in psych ward for the rest of their lives however is not against human rights (although arguably it should be), as long as they are re-evaluated to see if it is possible to release them every 5 years. Psychiatric patients sadly have less human rights than sane people, although psychiatric patient rights NGOs have been working over the past years to improve their rights through UN lobby and research.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 07, 2016, 04:39:36 am

I would say that the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated with knives/machetes is a very good sign that gun control is a good thing.

I thought the gun lobby said that terrorists and criminals would always get access to guns anyway.

Those people would have made an order of magnitude more casualties if they had easy access to guns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 07, 2016, 10:34:21 am

Quote from: Morrigi on August 07, 2016, 02:53:21 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 06, 2016, 08:57:39 pm

See, the thing about locking up someone forever (or until someone "qualified" decides they're "better") really doesn't sound like something that complies with human rights.

Without due process of law, you are correct. With it, it is a perfectly justifiable way to keep dangerous criminals from further harming society. Personally, I see nothing wrong with hanging terrorists and mass murderers, as long as there is no doubt whatsoever in their guilt.

You're unlikely to be able to find absolutely no doubt in any judicial verdict, which is an issue when you have such an absolute punishment as death. It can't be reversed if any new evidence comes up years down the line.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 10:44:26 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 03:28:44 am

If they went to Syria to join ISIS, then they're terrorists themselves, not just sympathisers. Sympathisers should probably be given some psych eval and surveillance as well.

But that's my point. You don't know if they went to Syria to join ISIS. You don't know what they did there. Everyone in this thread seems to be saying that if somebody goes to Syria, it means they're a terrorist by definition. They might have gone to join ISIS. They also might have realized that fighting the holy war was not all it was cracked up to be, and actually involved doing some pretty terrible things, and left for that reason. Or they might have just gone to help in a refugee camp because that's also considered a holy mission of sorts. You keep an eye on the people who came back. You don't imprison the lot of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 01:05:24 pm

Anyone who travels to Syria from one of our western countries that have pretty decent and minimally censored media knows what's going on there, and surely won't be going there to give puppies to child amputees. If you really think they could go there to do good deeds instead of join IS, you're very naive.

Or if they did go there to give puppies to child amputees there's clearly something mentally wrong enough with them to justify locking them up in a psych ward.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 01:45:55 pm

When innocence is no security, there is no incentive to be innocent.

Further, I believe that not arresting literally everyone who comes back and locking them away will actually decrease the amount of terrorism. It's called complementary behavior. Yes, some people will still end up being able to get away with it. That's why I think they should be monitored, spoke to and helped to have a place in society.

Some will still be fanatics, but the proportion of people who are true fanatics versus people who turn to crime and holy war as a way to try and feel meaning in their lives and strike back against a society they feel has abandoned them (regardless of whether it's true; if your family car gets vandalized multiple times a month and ethnic slurs get carved into your door, and you're a dumbass teenager with no sense of scale and hormones raging, you can make some incredibly bad decisions) is, as far as I can tell, a lot smaller than some people think.

But I think that locking up everyone who comes back will contribute to that sense of exclusion, frustration, and resentment. No, we don't want to 'just live with terrorism', and I think more than one approach will be necessary, but honestly, look at Aarhus. They took up a similar strategy, and the number of people leaving each year to go to Syria dropped from around 30 in 2013 to 1 in 2014. Doesn't work perfectly, but preventative measures, overall, tend to work better than reactionary measures for most things. Health, crime, whatever. Easier to prevent a problem than solve it.

I do agree with you on the crime thing save that rather than expanding death penalty, I feel like social programs and rehabilitation should be expanded to prevent shit from happening in first place. But again, this might be a matter of the differences between America and Europe, where America has imprisoned the largest portion of it's population of anywhere in the world, whilst still having fewer police officers per capita than most of Europe, like a third less, largely due to mandatory sentencing requirements and war on drugs.

This is europe thread, though, so I suppose I'll just ask: How common are repeat offenders? Because the thing I most remember about scandinavian justice system is that there was that breach in prison security when doors were left unlocked and the prisoners used it to bake a cake, because they didn't see a reason to try to escape or whatever.

@Martinuzz: Non-muslim people go to Syria to do volunteer work in refugee camps. Muslims can't? They would have no reason to see it as helping their fellow muslims? No way of thinking of that as a holy calling? Mujahideen doesn't just mean warrior, nor does Jihad (now) only mean war. Teenagers can, and often are, stupid. That includes running off to a foreign land because you think you can help people, as well as running off to a foreign land because you think you can 'defend the faith'. I don't think retributive justice, as in justice meant purely to punish and avenge, is something we should strive for. Meant to disincentivize, prevent, and stop behavior, sure. But locking everyone up, or killing them, gets real bad real fast. Cost, PR, and effectiveness all suffer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 01:49:24 pm

But I don't want to see them punished for going to Syria. It has nothing to do with punishment or avenging. I just want to protect society against them.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 01:45:55 pm

@Martinuzz: Non-muslim people go to Syria to do volunteer work in refugee camps. Muslims can't?

Sure they can. Let them sign up for the red half moon, or any other UN certified aid organistation needing volunteers badly, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But drive off in your car to the Turkish border and claim afterwards that you just went to help people? Sorry, can't take the risk of believing that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 01:55:02 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 01:49:24 pm

But I don't want to see them punished for going to Syria. It has nothing to do with punishment or avenging. I just want to protect society against them.

Except that imprisioning everybody that even set foot in Syria is going to get loads of those that went there for completely non-terrorist reasons. It's like fishing with a massive net, sure, you'll catch lots of what you do want, but you'll also catch lots of things that you didn't intend to catch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 02:11:49 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 01:55:02 pm

Except that imprisioning everybody that even set foot in Syria is going to get loads of those that went there for completely non-terrorist reasons. It's like fishing with a massive net, sure, you'll catch lots of what you do want, but you'll also catch lots of things that you didn't intend to catch.

There are no 'loads of those that went there for non-terrorist reasons'. There's maybe a few very dumb dumbasses that think it's safe to go and help kids in camps in Syria, but the vast majority of western born muslims travelling into Syria, go there with full intent to aid IS, and even those few who went there to help and not to fight will be unable to prevent getting involved in armed conflict. At least that's what our Dutch intelligence service reports, on whose advise all who return from Syria are detained, at least for questioning. They (the intelligence agency AIVD) are pushing hard to extend this to children from age 11, since that's the age that IS sends boys to camps to start training to shoot and decapitate, but that's not going to happen.

Just last week a dutch woman returned after a few years in Syria. She claimed to have been kidnapped to Syria by her husband, and managed to escape to Peshmerga forces after a few years, with her two kids. The woman is still in detention, the children have been placed in foster care upon arriving in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 02:22:14 pm

Also, it's Red Crescent, not Half Moon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 07, 2016, 02:35:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 02:22:14 pm

Also, it's Red Crescent, not Half Moon.

Oops. That's what I get for making a literal translation of the Dutch term

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 02:36:36 pm

Quote from: Antioch on August 07, 2016, 04:39:36 am

I would say that the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated with knives/machetes is a very good sign that gun control is a good thing.

I thought the gun lobby said that terrorists and criminals would always get access to guns anyway.

Those people would have made an order of magnitude more casualties if they had easy access to guns.

I do think some control is necessary(current levels generally speaking are IMHO sufficient), but terrorists and criminals do always have access to weapons. Guns or explosives. Whats an entirely different thing is whether they want to just become martyrs like this last last fellow with a knife who targeted police officers, or if they want to kill as many as possible like some others have. As you can see from guys like Breivik and many jihadis, terrorists tend to not be sharpest of minds.

Either way, one can buy a shotgun for just ID card in many EU countries, so theres always that option. Or like the Paris attackers they can acquire a full auto rifles illegally in a couple of phone calls. Its so sad the Commission isn't interested in chasing criminals but rather blames hundreds of thousands hobbyists and legal gun owners. I'm still waiting for the first terrorist attack where the firearms used were of typical civilian types and/or legally acquired.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 02:52:40 pm

Quote from: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 02:36:36 pm

Quote from: Antioch on August 07, 2016, 04:39:36 am

I would say that the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated with knives/machetes is a very good sign that gun control is a good thing.

I thought the gun lobby said that terrorists and criminals would always get access to guns anyway.

Those people would have made an order of magnitude more casualties if they had easy access to guns.

I do think some control is necessary(current levels generally speaking are IMHO sufficient), but terrorists and criminals do always have access to weapons. Guns or explosives. Whats an entirely different thing is whether they want to just become martyrs like this last last fellow with a knife who targeted police officers, or if they want to kill as many as possible like some others have. As you can see from guys like Breivik and many jihadis, terrorists tend to not be sharpest of minds.

Either way, one can buy a shotgun for just ID card in many EU countries, so theres always that option. Or like the Paris attackers they can acquire a full auto rifles illegally in a couple of phone calls. Its so sad the Commission isn't interested in chasing criminals but rather blames hundreds of thousands hobbyists and legal gun owners. I'm still waiting for the first terrorist attack where the firearms used were of typical civilian types and/or legally acquired.

Except that typical civillian firearms aren't the ones which hold hundreds of rounds a clip.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 02:54:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 02:52:40 pm

Quote from: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 02:36:36 pm

Quote from: Antioch on August 07, 2016, 04:39:36 am

I would say that the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated with knives/machetes is a very good sign that gun control is a good thing.

I thought the gun lobby said that terrorists and criminals would always get access to guns anyway.

Those people would have made an order of magnitude more casualties if they had easy access to guns.

I do think some control is necessary(current levels generally speaking are IMHO sufficient), but terrorists and criminals do always have access to weapons. Guns or explosives. Whats an entirely different thing is whether they want to just become martyrs like this last last fellow with a knife who targeted police officers, or if they want to kill as many as possible like some others have. As you can see from guys like Breivik and many jihadis, terrorists tend to not be sharpest of minds.

Either way, one can buy a shotgun for just ID card in many EU countries, so theres always that option. Or like the Paris attackers they can acquire a full auto rifles illegally in a couple of phone calls. Its so sad the Commission isn't interested in chasing criminals but rather blames hundreds of thousands hobbyists and legal gun owners. I'm still waiting for the first terrorist attack where the firearms used were of typical civilian types and/or legally acquired.

Except that typical civillian firearms aren't the ones which hold hundreds of rounds a clip.

Exactly. Except that most semi-auto rifles do, but you don't see terrorists using 4000 € sporting rifles do you?  :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 07, 2016, 04:06:18 pm

I'd say the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated is a very good sign that border control is a good thing.

Quote from: Covenant on August 07, 2016, 03:29:55 pm

Wait, how the fuck did we go back to guns AGAIN?
Surely I'm not the only European tired of constant American-style gun arguments?
At least give it its own thread. Because it's been done to death here.

Tbh it isn't full American yet, not even close

I can't even taste any sarcastic

*EDIT

Quote from: greatorder on August 05, 2016, 09:05:03 am

It's at times like this I begin to understand LW's shitposting. He's just given up, I think.

Hahaha pretty much
We're all too late to do much more than damage control, so the best we can do is damage control and bants

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azkul on August 07, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 07, 2016, 02:52:40 pm

Quote from: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 02:36:36 pm

Quote from: Antioch on August 07, 2016, 04:39:36 am

I would say that the recent amount of terror attacks perpetrated with knives/machetes is a very good sign that gun control is a good thing.

I thought the gun lobby said that terrorists and criminals would always get access to guns anyway.

Those people would have made an order of magnitude more casualties if they had easy access to guns.

I do think some control is necessary(current levels generally speaking are IMHO sufficient), but terrorists and criminals do always have access to weapons. Guns or explosives. Whats an entirely different thing is whether they want to just become martyrs like this last last fellow with a knife who targeted police officers, or if they want to kill as many as possible like some others have. As you can see from guys like Breivik and many jihadis, terrorists tend to not be sharpest of minds.

Either way, one can buy a shotgun for just ID card in many EU countries, so theres always that option. Or like the Paris attackers they can acquire a full auto rifles illegally in a couple of phone calls. Its so sad the Commission isn't interested in chasing criminals but rather blames hundreds of thousands hobbyists and legal gun owners. I'm still waiting for the first terrorist attack where the firearms used were of typical civilian types and/or legally acquired.

Except that typical civillian firearms aren't the ones which hold hundreds of rounds a clip.

Hundreds of rounds?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 07, 2016, 05:14:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 01:45:55 pm

I feel like social programs and rehabilitation should be expanded to prevent shit from happening in first place.

I need to pick this out of the post because duh, of course, everybody would like that to be the case. But then you have to acknowledge that Sweden is the (or at least was at some point during the last year, don't know if the statistics are stills standing) the second largest contributor of ISIS volounteers per capita in Europe. Sweden is also one of the providers of the largest amounts of social services and rehabilitation programs. It didn't stop all of those people. This isn't a problem that can be fought in such ways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 09:40:35 pm

The only solution I can see is eradicating any branch of Islam (or any ideology, really) that encourages murder and terrorism.

It's going to piss off all the freedom of speech people but there really has to be some point where society as a whole can say "enough is enough".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 07, 2016, 09:48:47 pm

Ohh! Can we ban all religion while we're at it?! :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 09:53:20 pm

Most religions don't offer salvation in exchange for slaughtering the infidel

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 07, 2016, 11:47:11 pm

Quote from: Azkul on August 07, 2016, 05:00:50 pm

Hundreds of rounds?

One can buy STANAG compatible 100+ magazines. Up to 150 at least. No special license needed. Typical practical rifle course requires 50+ shots so at least one magazine change with standard magazines, which means theres some advantage in using a large drum mag, but those larger ones are also so heavy(and not always very reliably feeding) so even the pros still use 30 rounds mags.

If you thought of belts... Well, the belt feds are all open bolt = categorically full auto capable = banned from everyone but collectors already.

Quote from: scriver on August 07, 2016, 05:14:06 pm

I need to pick this out of the post because duh, of course, everybody would like that to be the case. But then you have to acknowledge that Sweden is the (or at least was at some point during the last year, don't know if the statistics are stills standing) the second largest contributor of ISIS volounteers per capita in Europe. Sweden is also one of the providers of the largest amounts of social services and rehabilitation programs. It didn't stop all of those people. This isn't a problem that can be fought in such ways.

I believe Finland is within the top 3 too. Jihadis are going to Jihad with free social services or without. Most of them apparently arrive as immigrants/asylum seekers and already radicalized, or that happens at early age within the muslim communities. Because they just dont get integrated very well nor quickly. Unfortunately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 08, 2016, 04:23:09 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 09:53:20 pm

Most religions don't offer salvation in exchange for slaughtering the infidel

FIRST FIRST FIRST glorious amendment to the PERFECT in every way ten-thousand folded USA CONSTITUTION get rekt filthy rightless eruoo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 08, 2016, 07:09:28 pm

What the fuck did you just fucking say about socialists, you libertarian pig? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Red Army, and Ive been involved in numerous secret raids on the bourgeoisie, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Im the top sniper in the entire USSR armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another reactionary. I will gulag you with precision the likes of which has not been seen seen since 1917, mark my fucking dialectic. You think you can get away with saying reactionary bullshit over the Internet? Think again, bourgeois swine. As we speak I am contacting the KGB and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, capitalist dog. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your private property. You're fucking dead, libertarian swine. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over one thousand, nine hundred seventeen different ways, and thats just with Hegelianism. Not only am I extensively trained in historical materialism, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics Army and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable capitalist ass off the face of the planet, you bourgeois pig. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little reactionary comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldnt, you didnt, and now youre paying the price, you goddamn Trump-voting fascist. I will shit real liberation all over you and you will drown in it. Youre fucking dead, bourgeois swine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 08, 2016, 09:57:05 pm

It's funny when people say Gorilla warfare when they really mean geurilla warfare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2016, 10:06:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 08, 2016, 09:57:05 pm

It's funny when people say Gorilla warfare when they really mean guevesa warfare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 08, 2016, 10:54:21 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 07, 2016, 05:14:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 07, 2016, 01:45:55 pm

I feel like social programs and rehabilitation should be expanded to prevent shit from happening in first place.

I need to pick this out of the post because duh, of course, everybody would like that to be the case. But then you have to acknowledge that Sweden is the (or at least was at some point during the last year, don't know if the statistics are stills standing) the second largest contributor of ISIS volounteers per capita in Europe. Sweden is also one of the providers of the largest amounts of social services and rehabilitation programs. It didn't stop all of those people. This isn't a problem that can be fought in such ways.

Per capita of immigrants, or per capita overall? Because if I remember right, they also took in the most refugees, to the point that it strained those social services nearly to bursting. Throw enough dice and you'll get 1s, no matter how many sides they have. I also doubt those social services were designed with this sort of thing in mind.

If we're talking about new migrants, I think disallowing single men without children under the age of, like, forty or fifty, from coming in wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea. But the ones who get radicalized when already in the western countries usually do so in small groups, not in Muslim communities. Excepting those mosques which preach violence, but those are the minority.

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 07, 2016, 09:40:35 pm

The only solution I can see is eradicating any branch of Islam (or any ideology, really) that encourages murder and terrorism.

It's going to piss off all the freedom of speech people but there really has to be some point where society as a whole can say "enough is enough".

How do you propose doing that, though? What do you think it would solve? If we knew where and how they were getting radicalized, and could accurately tell when, we'd be busting doors in and arresting people on conspiracy charges.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2016, 10:06:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 08, 2016, 09:57:05 pm

It's funny when people say Gorilla warfare when they really mean guevesa warfare.

Best Empire

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 08, 2016, 11:35:44 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 08, 2016, 10:54:21 pm

How do you propose doing that, though? What do you think it would solve? If we knew where and how they were getting radicalized, and could accurately tell when, we'd be busting doors in and arresting people on conspiracy charges.

Massive amounts of censorship tbh

Quote from: smjjames on August 08, 2016, 09:57:05 pm

It's funny when people say Gorilla warfare when they really mean geurilla warfare.

No I mean gorilla warfare. We use literal gorillas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 08, 2016, 11:44:47 pm

What protection did Hamza receive from the European Court of Human Rights?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 12:50:29 am

He had been imprisoned for that already though; 7 year sentence in '06. While I in no way condone anything of what he did or what he stood for, he has the same rights as everyone else.

The extradition was delayed rather than stopped over concerns that he'd receive similar treatment to the detainees in Guantanamo Bay, life imprisonment without parole, and being held in isolation for extended periods of time. Basically inhumane treatment, a violation of Article 3 (I think) of the European Convention for Human Rights. He was eventually extradited after those concerns were assuaged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 01:05:12 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 08, 2016, 11:32:50 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 08, 2016, 10:54:21 pm

If we're talking about new migrants, I think disallowing single men without children under the age of, like, forty or fifty, from coming in wouldn't be necessarily a bad idea. But the ones who get radicalized when already in the western countries usually do so in small groups, not in Muslim communities. Excepting those mosques which preach violence, but those are the minority.

We already villify men enough in our own society. If we're going to go down the route of discriminating based on such characteristics, I'd rather do it by religion or race than gender. Let's take some Coptics or Yazidis rather than yet more Muslims.

There's such hypocrisy in those who shout out #YesAllMen one minute and #NotAllMuslims the next.

? So you'd rather discriminate against any Muslims on what evidence? Because I say that since from previous evidence with migrants, young single men are the ones starting shit most often. If you wanna go full anti-feminist or some bullshit here, because you think I'm trying to rebel against the patriarchy, just say it so I can tell you you're wrong. Here I was thinking I was being a bad liberal for proposing such a measure, and you manage to turn it around and make it seem like it's to hate men, rather than to limit violence, while you complain about people doing the exact same thing with measures you would like to limit violence and they say you're racist. What the fuck, dude. At least have some goddamned consistency.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 01:50:13 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 01:05:12 am

? So you'd rather discriminate against any Muslims on what evidence? Because I say that since from previous evidence with migrants, young single men are the ones starting shit most often.

This is actually a fair point, seeing as a number of attacks are done by people with fairly minimal religious background. Ultimately any kind of security has to discriminate based on something, so discriminating against the demographics most likely to commit terror is entirely reasonable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 02:16:47 am

I mean, from a behavioral background it makes sense. Young single men are the ones usually starting stupid shit in our culture as well, for that matter. Being part of a couple tends to drain away some of that need to prove yourself, helps steady emotions, cultural norms about monogamy are strong enough to counter most of the violence that occurs out of jealousy, or restrain it to those individuals(so maybe it just gets translated into domestic abuse, now that I think about it. Fuck, that's a catch-22 for you.), and testosterone rage plus culture shock of 'why are these women less clad than the prostitutes in [neighboring city]?' and of course, media pressure about western culture being racist confirming that yes, this is indeed society shunning you, not just the actions of a few dipshits who decided to smash up your mailbox and key racial slurs into your door, which your landlord now wants you to pay to fix.

The average person is not a terrorist. The average person is not a rapist or a murderer. But the way the genetic, cultural, political, social, and individual (if that last makes any sense? it's hard to convey what I'm trying to say here) system combined is set up, means that if you want damage control measures, and to do the most good for the most people, allowing in families, the elderly, children, and women is probably the way to do it. I'd put priorities on families first, since they need fewer rooms for more people and are more likely to be stable, children and elderly second, young single women third.

Would it be perfect? No, because this is about trends. Nobody notices the terrorist attacks that don't happen. Nobody notices the man who, upon the last straw being placed upon the camel's back, chooses to vent about it to his social worker before he goes searching for articles about why coming to the West was so stupid. But it would help, and it wouldn't result in us complaining about a court of Human Rights, or talking about how we shouldn't let Muslims in, just those other ethnicities and religious groups. I'm all for letting them in, mind, I just don't see why that serves as justification to keep Muslims out.

Mind, I still want to stomp on ISIS with a big boot labeled "Tanks 'n Shit', and smash it again for good measure every time it starts to rise up in lich-like stasis, but you know. That's apparently out of the question. Velvet glove and an iron fist put together usually work better than apart. >_>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 09, 2016, 02:24:42 am

If Europe wants to help people from Syria or Iraq by bringing them to Europe(and not helping them where they are) the it would IMHO be best to bring all kinds of people and families directly from camps in Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq etc. And seal the Schengen borders as airtight as possible.

IMHO the people that need help the most are the ones that arent able to leave the conflict zones, and right after those come the ones that cant escape further than refugee camps. Though at this point I've been a racist whose opinion doesnt matter because I dont support the current immigration/refugee politics for years already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 09, 2016, 04:45:54 am

Today in France, anti terrorist forces arrested a 16 year old girl in Melun, a town near Paris. She was discovered to be admin for a Jihadi propaganda chatroom on Telegram, in which she spread IS propaganda messages, recruited people to fight Jihad in France, and called upon people to commit acts of terror. She also wrote that she was preparing to take action herself.

The girl, who had not been in contact with the police before, is described as 'extremely radicalized' by the public prosecutor, and will face charges of membership of a criminal terrorist organisation.
The girl's parents' house has been searched by the police, but no weapons or explosives were found. Her laptop and pc are still being investigated.

Earlier this year, in march, police also arrested two teenage girls on charges of preparing a terrorist attack. But those had to be released for lack of evidence.


Meh they should have waited with arresting her for another 2 years. Right now, she'll be released and her record cleared within 2 years, once she turns 18.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 09, 2016, 06:46:42 am

I don't get why any refugees need to be allowed to roam free in EU countries. Build enclosed refugee camps, and if anybody doesn't like it in there they can go back to where they came from. Getting out into the general society of their host country should have asimiliation as a pre-requisite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 06:50:54 am

How the sod are they supposed to assimilate when they're stuck in an overcrowded, unhygienic den of violence and misery

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 09, 2016, 06:54:20 am

That's their problem. There's a moral obligation to save these people from ISIS, there's no moral obligation to pretty much hand them out citizenships. The goal isn't to keep them in EU, it's to send them back to their own homes eventually.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 06:58:27 am

>sticks refugees in internment camps
>"it's their problem"

smh tbqh fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 09, 2016, 07:12:19 am

Like I said, them becoming full member of society is not a desired outcome. That's what was done with Bosnian refugees in '95 - vast majority of them got kicked out as soon as Dayton agreement was signed, and there was zero terrorism associated with them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 09:15:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:04:34 am

And if you have to worry about 'being a bad liberal' for some thoughtcrime you may have had, I'd say that's rather telling of what kind of ideology you're forging for yourself.

Mostly in the sense that it fit the narrative of giving in to pressures from the other side. I don't actually worry too much about that sort of thing; it's why I get into arguments with my parents a lot over this sorta stuff.

I did notice something else though, that border control and gun control seem to be very similar issues in that one side thinks it's a matter of public safety and the other side thinks it's fearmongering and an attempt to restrict civil liberties/civil rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 10:44:58 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:04:34 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 12:50:29 am

The extradition was delayed rather than stopped over concerns that he'd receive similar treatment to the detainees in Guantanamo Bay, life imprisonment without parole, and being held in isolation for extended periods of time. Basically inhumane treatment, a violation of Article 3 (I think) of the European Convention for Human Rights. He was eventually extradited after those concerns were assuaged.

I don't find that treatment inhumane given his crimes and what he espouses. Either way, you seem to have asked a question to which you already knew the answer.

My intent was to find out why you thought the European Court of Human Rights was a ridiculous institution, though my ability to communicate that at 1am was a little bit impaired.

Evidently it's because you think human rights are conditional rather than absolute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 09, 2016, 12:21:59 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 12:16:34 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 10:44:58 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:04:34 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 12:50:29 am

The extradition was delayed rather than stopped over concerns that he'd receive similar treatment to the detainees in Guantanamo Bay, life imprisonment without parole, and being held in isolation for extended periods of time. Basically inhumane treatment, a violation of Article 3 (I think) of the European Convention for Human Rights. He was eventually extradited after those concerns were assuaged.

I don't find that treatment inhumane given his crimes and what he espouses. Either way, you seem to have asked a question to which you already knew the answer.

My intent was to find out why you thought the European Court of Human Rights was a ridiculous institution, though my ability to communicate that at 1am was a little bit impaired.

Evidently it's because you think human rights are conditional rather than absolute.

No, I think the concept of human rights is an obstructionist sham that infringes on national sovereignty while claiming to do what laws already do. I don't believe in a 'right' to asylum, I don't believe in a 'right' to broadband (http://broadband.about.com/od/International/a/United-Nations-Broadband-Access-Is-A-Basic-Human-Right.htm), and I don't believe in a right to life.  People only have rights because we as a society agree to dispense them. It stands to reason that in cases where dispensing these rights becomes harmful to society, we will choose to rescind them.

Wow. I didn't expect to see such... Sovietism, from what I assume is a native Western European. Have you thought that the concept of human rights may be so beneficial, that discarding it for a short-sighted gain of "security" is never the right choice?

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 09, 2016, 12:54:09 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 12:25:57 pm

Who said anything about surrendering freedom? We have the right to vote in this country, for example. If they tried to take it away, I and many others would fight in the streets to prevent them. Freedom and rights aren't given, they are earned, often with blood, as they have been earned in my country with the blood of my ancestors.

Contrast that with things like the 'right to asylum'. Because of 'human rights', my country is apparently obligated to take in large numbers of refugees, even if most people are opposed to it? Doesn't sound very free to me. I believe in democracy; if that's what most people vote for, alright, let's do it. But I don't believe in being obligated to harm myself by a moral code I didn't sign up for. I don't believe in 'Original Sin' either, because that seems to be the road we're going down.

But you do surrender freedom, you surrender the freedom of those people to live in a place that isn't a war-torn hell-hole! You say that, just because your people don't want to help those people, that you can just leave them out there to be killed at the leisure of tyrants and fanatics - and that's utterly, completely wrong, on a moral level. You're helping those tyrants to retain their grasp on the world with isolationistic policies like that.

And ultimately, you're setting up your Europe for a material failure, as well. You know what happened with USSR, right? If Europe goes the same way the USSR went on its policy towards supporting tyrants and dictators and reneging on human rights, then it is surely doomed, it will fall the same way the USSR fell, crashing down underneath its weight, with the economical system, led by short-sighted populist bureaucrats believing in bullshit economical theories being unable to cope with the pressure of the modern world.

With belief in basic universal human freedom, you have a chance to renew your system and form a more perfect union, without it, you do not, you'll get an "every man for himself" situation and it will just fall apart at the seams.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on August 09, 2016, 01:44:12 pm

I'm not exactly saying that the current path of Europe is right. That's why I've not said that "ohh if you continue to do what you're doing, you'll be okay", because evidently, it's not. But, as I've said, the only chance to persevere through the future troubles without fragmenting and turning Europe into a battleground yet again, is to form a strong ideological background for Europeans, and through that unity of ideology, forge a new, better, union, an ideological enterprise, just like USA did.

That's the only way to keep it together for any long-ish period of time. All alternatives have historically failed. A confederacy of independent, sovereign states will fall apart, will form enmities, will start fighting each other instead of helping, and will ultimately be divided and conquered by those that did their homework and formed a more perfect union, like, for example, USA. USA would be very keen on spreading freedom back to Europe which abandoned it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 09, 2016, 01:54:34 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on August 09, 2016, 01:44:12 pm

I'm not exactly saying that the current path of Europe is right. That's why I've not said that "ohh if you continue to do what you're doing, you'll be okay", because evidently, it's not. But, as I've said, the only chance to persevere through the future troubles without fragmenting and turning Europe into a battleground yet again, is to form a strong ideological background for Europeans, and through that unity of ideology, forge a new, better, union, an ideological enterprise, just like USA did.

That's the only way to keep it together for any long-ish period of time. All alternatives have historically failed. A confederacy of independent, sovereign states will fall apart, will form enmities, will start fighting each other instead of helping, and will ultimately be divided and conquered by those that did their homework and formed a more perfect union, like, for example, USA. USA would be very keen on spreading freedom back to Europe which abandoned it.

The only problem is that the histories are completely different, the US effectively started from scratch, there weren't any existing countries in the European sense, while Europe has millenia of history, old grievances, etc. Not to mention different cultures and identities.

I'm not neccesarily saying that they can't be overcome, just that it's a heck of a lot harder for Europe.

And you have to remember that even the US went through a period where we could easily have fragmented.

Anyway, meanwhile, Erdogan gets cozy with Putin:

http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-and-russia-meet-to-restart-dialogue-recep-tayyip-erdogan-vladimir-putin/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37018562

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37009931

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zangi on August 09, 2016, 02:26:18 pm

I'm here to just say from a buncha pages back: 

"humane western torture" = LULZ

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 09, 2016, 02:54:28 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 09:15:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:04:34 am

And if you have to worry about 'being a bad liberal' for some thoughtcrime you may have had, I'd say that's rather telling of what kind of ideology you're forging for yourself.

Mostly in the sense that it fit the narrative of giving in to pressures from the other side. I don't actually worry too much about that sort of thing; it's why I get into arguments with my parents a lot over this sorta stuff.

I did notice something else though, that border control and gun control seem to be very similar issues in that one side thinks it's a matter of public safety and the other side thinks it's fearmongering and an attempt to restrict civil liberties/civil rights.

So, you think taking over a million immigrants/social service shoppers/refugees, with majority of with opposite values compared to the average European and little to no hope of housing or feeding themselves or getting a job, into EU was a matter of improving public security? While leaving another 10+ millions, that are without a home in warzones and couldn't move to Europe, through the middle-East where they are and not bat an eyelid?

Interesting.


Yes, its cruel but I too do not think that it is our job to be the social service for half of the world. Its not EU's responsibility, and our economies wont survive trying. We can help them where they are by stopping the war and helping them help themselves, but just bringing everyone from over there to here because of "human rights" is madness. I also cannot become Swiss citizen even if I cross the border, of course I'd realize I'd be a leech.

And of course we should keep anyone who has managed to get this far and isnt from a safe area or willing to return on their own safe and fed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 03:08:10 pm

Is it just me or is everyone here arguing either "humanitarianism" or "national security" with literally no rational compromise to be seen

Like I thought my approach was actually pretty good - let in however many X country can reasonably afford (except at-risk demographics), offer them a chance at integration, if they don't start making an effort after a year or two, send them back to Turkey.

But apparently FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY trump all else so we have to shut our borders and fuck the refugees, it's their fault they're refugees

Or HUMAN RIGHTS trump all else and we have to bring in an arseload of refugees because fuck our country, these people need to leech of our govt

E: strawmanning, etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 09, 2016, 03:20:16 pm

I thought my concept of letting them in but restricting their movement is a compromise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 03:40:58 pm

Immigrants confirmed as the only beings capable of rape.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:07:24 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 09, 2016, 02:03:16 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 12:25:57 pm

He seems to be saying that as far as he's concerned, the moral obligation is to prevent these refugees from dying, not to give them an easy or comfortable life at the expense of the safety of our own citizens. To that effect, we'd be better off strictly controlling their numbers, movement, etc - perhaps to their detriment, and perhaps to our benefit.

Seems quite sensible to me.

Doesn't to me.

I'm not seeing them as a... distant thing, though. I'm thinking 'Well, if I was in that situation then what?'.

Then what? What changes? Why shouldn't others be able to control numbers, movement, and demographics of those who seek help just because the refugees are made up of yous or mes?

Quote from: greatorder on August 09, 2016, 03:31:56 pm

But then you were saying they need to integrate. It's like sticking a barrier between pure water and sugar solution and expecting osmosis.

I'll give you that. However. Integration of the vast majority of these immigrants is not possible anyway because of the large numbers we experience. People aren't sugar and water that will automatically solute into eachother. People are people, and many people to not want or do not have the ability to integrate.

Quote from: Sergarr on August 09, 2016, 12:21:59 pm

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

I find that saying completely ridiculous, even more so in this context. Freedom and safety aren't opposites or immiscibles. They are preconditions, or co-conditions, of each other. You can't have safety without freedom, and you are never free without being safe. They come hand-in-hand.

Just the other week a 50-something woman from a village nearby was exercising her freedom to pick berries in the forest. She was gangraped by several men. Do you think she and others who want to be in the nature around there feel either safe or free now?

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 03:40:58 pm

Immigrants confirmed as the only beings capable of rape.

No, and that's not what he was saying. That above is a pure strawman.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 05:34:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:07:24 pm

No, and that's not what he was saying. That above is a pure strawman.

Is it? He was saying that we shouldn't take immigrants because they'll rape people, which is absurd, so I came back with an absurd statement. If we shouldn't accept immigrants because they might rape people, we might as well throw everyone in prison because they might rape someone or murder someone or speak harshly to someone.

The example he gave was also not really a very good one. The article even goes into detail that the German state is essentially suppressing the details of these rapes, they aren't really prosecuting these rapes (it said something about being too lenient, without really giving examples of what that meant) the German media not covering these things, or otherwise lessening the blow (southern skin colour? what?) and then it states that Germany has a) a ridiculously narrow definition of rape (you weren't raped if you didn't fight back!) and b) ridiculously low rates of reporting all sex crimes.

In terms of choosing an example to show that immigrants are dirty raping bastards, you'd be hard-pressed to find a worse one.

---

Re: integration: it's a two-sided affair. You can't just expect immigrants to go out and find ways to integrate, the place they're trying to assimilate into needs to put some effort into actually helping them out. Some of them might not even speak the language. How well do you think you'd fare if you could barely communicate with anyone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:57:02 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 05:34:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:07:24 pm

No, and that's not what he was saying. That above is a pure strawman.

Is it? He was saying that we shouldn't take immigrants because they'll rape people

That sounds surprisingly different from "Immigrants confirmed as the only beings capable of rape". Even then, you're still misrepresenting his point even after moving your strawman post. What he said, through the implications of the example of Germany's rape and sexual abuse problems, was that immigrants rape people at a greater amount than natives. Not that immigrants are the only ones capable of rape, or that all immigrants are rapists.

But hey, if you want to make the discussion about blinderedly assuming the worst possible about each other's arguments instead of listening to each other, then go ahead.

Quote

Re: integration: it's a two-sided affair. You can't just expect immigrants to go out and find ways to integrate, the place they're trying to assimilate into needs to put some effort into actually helping them out. Some of them might not even speak the language. How well do you think you'd fare if you could barely communicate with anyone?

Sweden has some of the most extensive integration efforts of the world. It doesn't matter when people don't want to integrate.

edit: added first sentence

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 06:13:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:57:02 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 05:34:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:07:24 pm

No, and that's not what he was saying. That above is a pure strawman.

Is it? He was saying that we shouldn't take immigrants because they'll rape people

That sounds surprisingly different from "Immigrants confirmed as the only beings capable of rape".

Yes, well done. Do you understand the concept of irony? It was a ridiculous statement that I used to highlight his ridiculous statement. Natives are just as capable of raping someone as an immigrant.

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:57:02 pm

Even then, you're still misrepresenting his point even after moving your strawman post. What he said, through the implications of the example of Germany's rape and sexual abuse problems, was that immigrants rape people at a greater amount than natives. Not that immigrants are the only ones capable of rape, or that all immigrants are rapists.

You must point out where the article said that, I must have missed it.

Perhaps you could also provide numbers on the bolded statement, as it relates to the article? Edit: bearing in mind I'll drop the "90% of sex crime go unreported" stat down on whatever you find out about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 09, 2016, 06:34:58 pm

So wait, first you go with the "I was only saying he claimed 'immigrants are the only ones capable of rape' as a ridiculous statement" excuse for your strawman, and then in the very next sentence you go ahead and claim that the article he posted does in fact claim that "immigrants are the only ones capable of rape" anyway?

Quote from: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 06:13:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 05:57:02 pm

Even then, you're still misrepresenting his point even after moving your strawman post. What he said, through the implications of the example of Germany's rape and sexual abuse problems, was that immigrants rape people at a greater amount than natives. Not that immigrants are the only ones capable of rape, or that all immigrants are rapists.

You must point out where the article said that, I must have missed it.

Perhaps you could also provide numbers on the bolded statement, as it relates to the article? Edit: bearing in mind I'll drop the "90% of sex crime go unreported" stat down on whatever you find out about it.

I didn't say that the article said it, I said that it was what Covenant's point, as opposed to "only immigrants rape" or "we shouldn't take immigrants because they will rape people" that you are reducing it to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 07:02:01 pm

Quote from: Erkki on August 09, 2016, 02:54:28 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 09:15:16 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:04:34 am

And if you have to worry about 'being a bad liberal' for some thoughtcrime you may have had, I'd say that's rather telling of what kind of ideology you're forging for yourself.

Mostly in the sense that it fit the narrative of giving in to pressures from the other side. I don't actually worry too much about that sort of thing; it's why I get into arguments with my parents a lot over this sorta stuff.

I did notice something else though, that border control and gun control seem to be very similar issues in that one side thinks it's a matter of public safety and the other side thinks it's fearmongering and an attempt to restrict civil liberties/civil rights.

So, you think taking over a million immigrants/social service shoppers/refugees, with majority of with opposite values compared to the average European and little to no hope of housing or feeding themselves or getting a job, into EU was a matter of improving public security? While leaving another 10+ millions, that are without a home in warzones and couldn't move to Europe, through the middle-East where they are and not bat an eyelid?

Interesting.


Yes, its cruel but I too do not think that it is our job to be the social service for half of the world. Its not EU's responsibility, and our economies wont survive trying. We can help them where they are by stopping the war and helping them help themselves, but just bringing everyone from over there to here because of "human rights" is madness. I also cannot become Swiss citizen even if I cross the border, of course I'd realize I'd be a leech.

And of course we should keep anyone who has managed to get this far and isnt from a safe area or willing to return on their own safe and fed.

I don't think you grokked what I was trying to say. Please try again, this time keeping in mind which side wants to restrict what. They're not the same side.

There's not an obligation to take in more than you can handle. And there're approaches that work better than others, in terms of the way you aid them, long-term. But dismissing human rights in the name of egoism, 'enlightened self-interest' (I notice most people who like that term only really use half of it), and moral relativism simply because your opponents use the term is not the solution. For one thing, it helps them, because looking like you don't give a shot about anyone but you and yours isn't great for convincing people, for some reason. Why should anyone else give a shit about your opinion od you can't even being yourself to care about oi that people dying and living in fear? If you're unable to dredge up any empathy?

That quote isn't quite accurate, by the way.

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Being American actually came in handy for once in this thread. Funny.

People don't always integrate easily. You get cultural centers, separated from each other, kinda like chunks of solute, from which they assimilate over generations, while still maintaining a chunk of culture. Europe doesn't have those pockets of unoccupied space/period of rapid growth to accomodate that effectively in an organic way. But if these people didn't want to be a part of society in some way, they wouldn't have come.

I find the failure to enforce laws among immigrants and refugees horrendous. I find the attribution of that failure to be the fault of the immigrants or refugees to be likewise horrendous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 07:09:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 06:34:58 pm

So wait, first you go with the "I was only saying he claimed 'immigrants are the only ones capable of rape' as a ridiculous statement" excuse for your strawman, and then in the very next sentence you go ahead and claim that the article he posted does in fact claim that "immigrants are the only ones capable of rape" anyway?

Eh? You are making some outlandish inferences, bro. You need to explain that one.

Quote from: scriver on August 09, 2016, 06:34:58 pm

I didn't say that the article said it, I said that it was what Covenant's point, as opposed to "only immigrants rape" or "we shouldn't take immigrants because they will rape people" that you are reducing it to.

But the article was used as support for Covenant's point, which has been my point all along. His point being that we need to protect our womenfolk from the dirty brown people:

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 03:32:26 pm

Why should my sisters, daughters, friends and co-workers live in fear of violent sexual assault such as in Germany, like the many, many examples I linked to in my last post (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8663/germany-migrants-rape)?

This is the ridiculous statement to which I'm referring. How do we interpret that?

I'm quite willing to be corrected, but it looks like what Covenant is saying is "immigrants are rapists, look what's going on in Germany, this article will provide supporting evidence", but I've already said the article doesn't say that. A very basic gist of it is "German authorities are letting immigrants get away with sexual violence."

My ridiculous statement of "immigrants confirmed as only beings capable of rape" was irony. I perhaps should've spent an extra few moments typing out "not all immigrants are rapists, not all rapists are immigrants" as well to illustrate that's what I meant, but I didn't. The question "why do we have to protect our womenfolk from immigrant rapists but not native rapists?" may also have helped. Sorry.

Hopefully that has explained what inspired the irony and where I was coming from.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 07:32:06 pm

This is why I carefully explained my point, though I also forgot to add that it's a bit redundant having two people argue over a third person's point. It could be an eternal discussion :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 07:45:02 pm

I feel the same way about people who don't stand by what they say, and cherry-pick sources.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 09:12:07 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 09, 2016, 07:37:30 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 07:02:01 pm

For one thing, it helps them, because looking like you don't give a shot about anyone but you and yours isn't great for convincing people, for some reason.

If this is true, why are our leaders so afraid of allowing us to vote directly on these issues?

You're not required to give a shit about my opinion on the subject, as much as I'm not required to care about yours. But if we live together in a democratic country and you want to see the public vote your way on an issue, you have to convince them to do so. And if you think your moral arguments will trump their own self-interest, well, I think you'll be surprised.

Or maybe not. Who knows. Let's see what happens in Hungary in October.

You guys voted your current politicians into office. LW was posting articles for weeks about people undermining attempts to have border security. Turns out, there's a lot of people who take the view of morality. They're probably afraid of letting you vote directly because they're concerned about hysteria, which if you look at the stock market, or media, or just about anything else involving opinions after heavily publicized, politicized, or otherwise dramatized events, is an actual concern. That's why we have representative democracies, rather than direct democracies. Plus, look what happened with your country when they held a referendum and fucked themselves over because people were stupid and voted against what they actually wanted, because they were trying to make a point, or didn't bother voting since they thought it was a sure thing.

Let me ask you this, Covenant. Say they did hold a referendum. What would be your response, respectively, to the country deciding in favor of refugees, and against it?

I'm also curious why you think voting to keep refugees and immigration out is in the individual's self-interest. Certainly, unfettered flow is negative. But somehow, I think that the precedent of the restrictions you would like to set might be worse. Only half muslims, no citizenship (and thus fewer rights), have to go back to a devastated country...based on what? People are getting raped, and that's horrible. But don't act like that's the only thing that happens. I mean, yeah, bringing in lots of single young men from a patriarchal culture, kindof a bad move, to put it mildly. Do you expect Muslim families to participate in this? Or just in the thoughtcrime of having their religion, which is different from the one you like? People can think what they want to think. Shariah law isn't going to be implemented. You know that as well as I do. I did the statistics on it. You think the people fleeing from the fighting, which is in part perpetrated by a group trying to establish Shariah law, are going to want to start new wars in the new place they're in? Really? That's before getting into the media's love of drama, and thus playing up of any rapes that do happen. It's fearmongering. The odds of being raped in a given time frame? How many percentage points do you believe they rose by? Gimme a number, Covenant. Hell, better, find an unbiased article (the unbiased part, either for or against, is the hard part) that gives numbers. In a country of a few dozen million people, sexual assault cases can be cherry-picked handily.

Furthermore, tell me. Is your economy set up to handle an aging population with below-replacement-rate reproduction, and an increasingly ardent youth population clamoring for better jobs, to the point of healthcare professionals going on strike? I mean, you were asking about immigrants in general. You believe they will remain unintegrated forever? That they will always be unable to speak the language, 'unwilling' to get a job, slouching and mooching? You think those are the values Islam teaches? You think once the flood stops and the country can actually digest what it's chewed, that nothing good can possibly result?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 09:40:23 pm

I meant the precedent of that sort of discrimination becoming acceptable practice. Slippery slope with that sort of thing has happened before. Tyranny of the majority is still a thing. Maybe you haven't had much experience with it, but I think Ireland did for a while. Hell, negotiating with terrorists seemed to have turned out okay, there. Could be wrong. Scotland probably feels that way right about now (in that a lot of the reason they chose to stick with England was because of the benefits the EU brought, iirc).

I dislike the 'move to Canada' people too. I just don't view 'make the country a better place' to mean 'keep out foreigners'. My values are more along the lines of 'in general, people are decent'. It's why I find myself defending the right more often than I do the left, because I'm usually around people on the left who demonize the right. This thread reminds me that there's still people who demonize minorities, and serves to widen my bubble, which is very gratifying, I must say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 11:18:25 pm

Quote from: Ispil on August 09, 2016, 10:44:17 pm

Immigrants are fine so long as they can be culturally integrated into the country. Integration is a very complex process, but there seems to be a pretty neat correlation:

But they also rape people, so we should put them in enclosures

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 09, 2016, 11:33:20 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 09, 2016, 11:18:25 pm

Quote from: Ispil on August 09, 2016, 10:44:17 pm

Immigrants are fine so long as they can be culturally integrated into the country. Integration is a very complex process, but there seems to be a pretty neat correlation:

But they also rape people, so we should put them in enclosures

Could charge people to view them, though. Lighten the burden they have on society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 10, 2016, 01:33:14 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 09, 2016, 07:02:01 pm

There's not an obligation to take in more than you can handle. And there're approaches that work better than others, in terms of the way you aid them, long-term. But dismissing human rights in the name of egoism, 'enlightened self-interest' (I notice most people who like that term only really use half of it), and moral relativism simply because your opponents use the term is not the solution. For one thing, it helps them, because looking like you don't give a shot about anyone but you and yours isn't great for convincing people, for some reason. Why should anyone else give a shit about your opinion od you can't even being yourself to care about oi that people dying and living in fear? If you're unable to dredge up any empathy?

There is no obligation to take any of them. In exactly zero European countries have the people been asked about their opinions when it comes the phenomenon and related issues and questions at hand. If in a democracy my opinion, a law-abiding tax-paying citizen's voice and opinion, doesnt count, why should anyone else's? EU is getting more and more integrated while the EU citizens do NOT want to get integrated and become a federation. And no its not just about rapes or medievalish muslim culture both of which I dislike. Nor about the fact that most of the people coming here are young men.

Quote

because looking like you don't give a shot about anyone but you and yours isn't great for convincing people

I do not need to convince people, I have an opinion and so do many others, and all those should count. Your thought seems to be that my opinion really doesnt even matter because its "selfish" somehow? Your perception of what is democracy differs from mine. At the moment we too, like the Brits and many others, have a government that has eaten its words several times over as have the political parties and individual politicians starting from the PM himself.

Maybe its you who should try reading again. I'm not against helping people who need protection. If you feel you arent getting through, can explain yourself about how immigration politics and gun control debates are both about public security versus individual freedoms.



PS. around here you're going to jail if you use more force than what was used on you ie. defending yourself is in practice illegal. One cant even fight back and defend oneself against "darkies" trying to rape with a knife or gas if they havent already used similar weapons on you. Rapes by foreigners have gone up 46 % from last year and all it took was 30k "refugees", a tiny, less than half-a-percent minority, is committing more than half of them all. I cant defend myself in any legal way and if I go out after dark and get raped/robbed/beaten its basically my own fault. Because I didnt vote right, oh, I did, but it doesnt count because now I'm a racist.

The times we live are getting a bit too interesting to my liking.


edit, I felt the need to provide some sources too. From the police department, statistics on foreign citizens in crime,

2014-2015 (https://poliisi.fi/instancedata/prime_product_julkaisu/intermin/embeds/polisenaxwwwstructure/44000_Tilasto.pdf?8798c3ee8b28d388)
2015 January to June vs. 2016 January to June (https://www.poliisi.fi/instancedata/prime_product_julkaisu/intermin/embeds/polisenaxwwwstructure/49938_Ulkomaan_kansalaisten_osuus_rikollisuudessa_tammi-kesakuu_2016.pdf?65fc653422b5d388)
The latter one in google translate (https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.poliisi.fi%2Finstancedata%2Fprime_product_julkaisu%2Fintermin%2Fembeds%2Fpolisenaxwwwstructure%2F49938_Ulkomaan_kansalaisten_osuus_rikollisuudessa_tammi-kesakuu_2016.pdf%3F65fc653422b5d388&edit-text=&act=url)

Rapes up by 6%, suspect foreign citizen up by 46%. Sexual harassment up by 150%, by foreigners 450%. Violent assaults went down by 2%, but numbers of assaults committed by foreigners went up by 38%.

All it took was 30k, mostly young men, refugees. Keeping them just fed and dry is about 1,5 million € every day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 02:42:48 am

Quote from: Erkki on August 10, 2016, 01:33:14 am

There is no obligation to take any of them.

I disagree, fundamentally. I would consider myself, and everyone else in the west, obligated to help people when we are able. Ignoring the crisis, and letting millions of people suffer and die, would be an utterly vile decision.

Quote from: Erkki on August 10, 2016, 01:33:14 am

All it took was 30k, mostly young men, refugees. Keeping them just fed and dry is about 1,5 million € every day.

It's almost as though having thirty thousand young men running around without any employment or understanding of the local culture is a bad idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 10, 2016, 03:01:05 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 02:42:48 am

I disagree, fundamentally. I would consider myself, and everyone else in the west, obligated to help people when we are able. Ignoring the crisis, and letting millions of people suffer and die, would be an utterly vile decision.

Oh absolutely, as an individual, I do find myself obligated to help people. And I have, both personally and by donating, cash and clothing. But nations I dont think are obligated to help by just bringing people here. I dont think it solves anything, helps almost anyone nor is it effective. At worst we will see EU disintegrate and national economies collapse. There are 60-something million refugees around the globe and we're arguing over what to do with one million who managed to get to Europe without trying to solve the original issues or letting them help themselves.

Providing help, humanitarian, military and cash, to Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, Libya and so forth I believe is preferable to just letting those places collapse and then dealing with whatever happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 03:24:49 am

I'm on the fence about propping up a bunch of Islamic theocracies in order to help people, it sounds kinda counterproductive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 10, 2016, 04:09:33 am

Quote from: greatorder on August 09, 2016, 03:31:56 pm

But then you were saying they need to integrate. It's like sticking a barrier between pure water and sugar solution and expecting osmosis.

No, they don't need to integrate. They need to go back to their own homes eventually, and we should be focusing on making that possible rather than importing the entire population of the Middle East. But, if any of them really want to stay in their host countries, they should have to pass the same criteria as regular immigrants: learning the language, the laws and the customs of their new country, AND getting a job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 10, 2016, 05:05:44 am

Quote from: DJ on August 10, 2016, 04:09:33 am

Quote from: greatorder on August 09, 2016, 03:31:56 pm

But then you were saying they need to integrate. It's like sticking a barrier between pure water and sugar solution and expecting osmosis.

No, they don't need to integrate. They need to go back to their own homes eventually, and we should be focusing on making that possible rather than importing the entire population of the Middle East. But, if any of them really want to stay in their host countries, they should have to pass the same criteria as regular immigrants: learning the language, the laws and the customs of their new country, AND getting a job.

I'd also like to point out that osmosis cannot happen without a barrier between two solutions, transport across a partially-permeable barrier is literally the definition of osmosis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 10, 2016, 07:16:07 am

Quote from: DJ on August 10, 2016, 04:09:33 am

No, they don't need to integrate. They need to go back to their own homes eventually, and we should be focusing on making that possible rather than importing the entire population of the Middle East. But, if any of them really want to stay in their host countries, they should have to pass the same criteria as regular immigrants: learning the language, the laws and the customs of their new country, AND getting a job.

The getting a job part is hard. EU law forbids refugees to work, until they have been granted official asylum status. For the duration of the 2 to 12 years that it takes for the legal procedure about that to finish, they are forbidden by law to get a job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 10, 2016, 07:25:22 am

Well that's just silly. Why? Refugees are a big burden on the economy, why not turn some of them into actual contributors?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 10, 2016, 07:29:25 am

because farmers and slaughterhouses need cheap black workers. With black I don't mean skin colour, but illegal, unregistered, not paying tax, like in black market.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 08:26:32 am

muh bootstraps

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 10, 2016, 09:54:28 am

A new law has been proposed in the Italian parliament: Parents who raise their kids as vegans, will be charged with criminal neglect, and can face up to 4 years in prison., for "feeding children with a diet that is devoid of elements that are essential for the healthy development of a child".

The politician who designed the new law, Elvira Savino, says that she "has no problem with veganism, as long as it is an adult's free choice. But I think it's absurd to allow parents to force their lifestyle on their kids in a fanatical, near religious way, without proper scientific knowledge, and without having consulted a medical professional."

Tbh, I kinda agree, although I think 4 years in prison is not the right way to go about it. Mandatory child counselling by a medical professional would be better.
Vegan all nice and dandy, but not for a kid growing up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 10, 2016, 09:58:53 am

I kinda agree with his reasoning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on August 10, 2016, 06:36:59 pm

Well, if they're giving the kids enough supplements, it might work despite the veganism. Why not introduce a bill which makes all intentional malnutrition child abuse?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2016, 06:53:14 pm

It's not gonna pass anyway, it's just news for wackiness.

That said, veganism is definitely one of those "can but shouldn't" things. Gotta put those incisors to work.

Quote from: greatorder on August 10, 2016, 06:51:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on August 10, 2016, 06:36:59 pm

Well, if they're giving the kids enough supplements, it might work despite the veganism. Why not introduce a bill which makes all intentional malnutrition child abuse?

If they raise them as vegan without supplements it could be UNINTENTIONAL malnutrition.

Some of these people will feed cats vegan diets until they die. There's a line where the "lack of intent" is fueled by political desire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 08:02:50 pm

Veganism is a pretty cruel thing to force on a kid, to be sure

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

To me, this has as much weight as me saying to you that I consider you obligated to spend at least an hour a day praising the Flying Spaghetti Monster for creating you.

"Feeling obligated to help people is a joke"

congrats

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

If you personally feel that obligation, great, and there should be avenues open for you to contribute to it (private charities, primarily). But don't force others to go along with you - at least, not without giving them a vote on the matter.

I'm not libertarian so no

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

As opposed to what we're doing at the moment, which is funding Israel in their efforts to destabilize half the Middle East and make the problem that much worse?

What made you think I support Israel?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 09:30:23 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 08:02:50 pm

Veganism is a pretty cruel thing to force on a kid, to be sure

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

To me, this has as much weight as me saying to you that I consider you obligated to spend at least an hour a day praising the Flying Spaghetti Monster for creating you.

"Feeling obligated to help people is a joke"

It's not a joke. Feel free to substitute FSM with Jehovah, Allah, Ganesh, or your own personal diety of choice. Either way, whatever actions you feel morally obligated to take or eschew are your own business - but if you consider me morally obligated to follow the same course of action, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Equally, unless you're a pretty hardcore Christian, I doubt you'd pay much heed to the people who said you were going to hell for not turning up in church every Sunday.

How enlightening. I didn't realize helping real people (as distinct from hypothetical people that evangelism, say, is supposed to help) not suffer or die was the same as going to church on Sundays. Good to know. Makes it so much easier to be a good person.

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 08:02:50 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

If you personally feel that obligation, great, and there should be avenues open for you to contribute to it (private charities, primarily). But don't force others to go along with you - at least, not without giving them a vote on the matter.

I'm not libertarian so no

Please expand on this. Are you saying that because you aren't libertarian, you think it's justified to force other people to perform actions against their own self-interest without their democratic mandate? Sounds pretty despotic to me, if I'm not misinterpreting you.

Democratic mandate does some pretty shitty things, sometimes. Usually I think it best to prevent demagoguery, but maybe that's just me. And personally, I think refusing to help people out of hysteria would be a pretty shitty thing to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 10, 2016, 09:44:30 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 08:02:50 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

If you personally feel that obligation, great, and there should be avenues open for you to contribute to it (private charities, primarily). But don't force others to go along with you - at least, not without giving them a vote on the matter.

I'm not libertarian so no

Please expand on this. Are you saying that because you aren't libertarian, you think it's justified to force other people to perform actions against their own self-interest without their democratic mandate? Sounds pretty despotic to me, if I'm not misinterpreting you.

Welcome to Scotland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 10:03:59 pm

First off, I don't think it's to people's personal detriment. People forget the enlightened part of enlightened self-interest. There's perfectly legitimate  reasons to oppose immigration. "Why should I bother helping anyone else" is not a very good reason.

It does not require absolute morality, either. Just a societally agreed definition. From what I'm seeing in Europe, society agrees on those morals.

Second, purely self-interested societies don't function great for the average layperson. Too much defection in the metaphorical prisoner's dilemmas.

My argument is that it's wrong to abandon people simply because they don't benefit you, and that more people have morals than you seem to think. Have a referendum. This time, people know what happens when you don't vote. Hell, institute mandatory voting like Australia. That way voter turnout doesn't skew results.

As for Trump: To some extent, yes. More motivated by the fact that my priors for his support level are such that if he won I would suspect foul play, however. Indeed, I would know it existed, considering the rulings concerning at least one law related to voter id and it's discriminatory implementation. Constitutions and the equivalent do exist for reasons, you know. They're where we pick and choose those principles of democracy we like. You know, since it used to be the democratic consensus that interracial marriage was illegal, up until a small non-elected body enforced it's will on the public against their perceived self-interest. As an example purely. There's good and bad in everything. Balance tends to be a necessity.

Democratic process only represents the will of the people if the people actually participate. And there's plenty of reasons and means to make sure only the proper sorts of people do. Would you be open to a second referendum on Brexit with mandatory turnout, given how many people voted against their self-interest in the hopes of making a point because of flawed perceptions of national sentiment, and the highly variable turnout rates based on age?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 10:49:14 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

It's not a joke. Feel free to substitute FSM with Jehovah, Allah, Ganesh, or your own personal diety of choice. Either way, whatever actions you feel morally obligated to take or eschew are your own business - but if you consider me morally obligated to follow the same course of action, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Equally, unless you're a pretty hardcore Christian, I doubt you'd pay much heed to the people who said you were going to hell for not turning up in church every Sunday.

That's a terrible comparison

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

Please expand on this. Are you saying that because you aren't libertarian, you think it's justified to force other people to perform actions against their own self-interest without their democratic mandate? Sounds pretty despotic to me, if I'm not misinterpreting you.

I don't believe that people have some magical ball of rights that lets them do whatever they want without consequences

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:48 pm

What made you think that I thought you supported Israel?

What made you think that I thought that you thought that I supported Israel?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 11:09:57 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

That's a terrible rebuttal.

Religion is comparable to the Flying Spaghetti Monster is comparable to widely-accepted moral principles

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

And you're saying that you should decide who this applies to and what those consequences are, rather than the majority of citizens reaching that decision democratically?

Ideally, yes, but in this instance I'm happy to let democratically elected governments handle it for me.

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

I'm not even doing a thing. Your position on Israel never entered my mind when I made my comment - I don't really care what it is, to be honest. But if 'propping up' (or more realistically, simply ignoring) Islamic theocracies would be 'kinda counterproductive', than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

k?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 11:28:41 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 10:03:59 pm

First off, I don't think it's to people's personal detriment. People forget the enlightened part of enlightened self-interest. There's perfectly legitimate  reasons to oppose immigration.

Reasons which many of us here have given, multiple times, and we just get shouted down with accusations of being racist, stupid, or heartless.

"But rape!" is not a legitimate reason to restrict muslim integration as a whole, which you seem to. It's an argument for finding the group that's doing that the most (I already described what I'm 85% certain it is), and restricting their immigration. Nobody seems to be talking about it lowering wages. No one seems to be arguing that the welfare system is overburdened so far. That it will be, sure, and like I said, don't take more than you can support. But your argument is, in your own words, about self-interest. I think you're wrong, Covenant, but I don't think you're evil. Only FSM cultists are evil

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 10:03:59 pm

As for Trump: To some extent, yes. More motivated by the fact that my priors for his support level are such that if he won I would suspect foul play, however. Indeed, I would know it existed, considering the rulings concerning at least one law related to voter id and it's discriminatory implementation. Constitutions and the equivalent do exist for reasons, you know. They're where we pick and choose those principles of democracy we like. You know, since it used to be the democratic consensus that interracial marriage was illegal, up until a small non-elected body enforced it's will on the public against their perceived self-interest. As an example purely. There's good and bad in everything. Balance tends to be a necessity.

You seem to be pretty much saying in your post that even if the majority of your countrymen vote for Trump as president, you won't accept/respect that decision. I don't even know what to say to that - it just seems like we're coming at this whole 'being a part of society' thing from very, very different perspectives.

But I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I don't think that that would be the case. If it was proven to me that in a fair election with full and unbiased turnout, Trump won, I would go 'Whelp, hopefully he doesn't nuke anyone' and see how many gods I could find to pray to on Wikipedia. But with polling as it is, the election system as it is, and Trump as he is, I don't think that would happen. Furthermore, I would think that our society had reached a very, very bad place, and that we were in danger of mob rule and demagoguery. If people in Britain voted to allow quartering soldiers in people's homes around where you live, would you respect that decision and live with a soldier? Or if they voted that people needed to allow immigrants to stay in their home? Would you be okay with having to do that, since it's the democratic will of the people? There's a line we all draw in the sand where our respect for democracy and our beliefs conflict and the beliefs win out. Trump winning is very close to that line. Trump subsequently banning Muslims from the US is over that line.

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 10:03:59 pm

Democratic process only represents the will of the people if the people actually participate. And there's plenty of reasons and means to make sure only the proper sorts of people do. Would you be open to a second referendum on Brexit with mandatory turnout, given how many people voted against their self-interest in the hopes of making a point because of flawed perceptions of national sentiment, and the highly variable turnout rates based on age?

We actually had a very high turnout rate on Brexit, and despite sensationalist reporting the number of people who regretted their vote was later found by pollsters to have been tiny. Would I be open to a second referendum? Tough to say, given your parameters. I don't support mandatory voting, for one thing, and 'my side' won for another, so why would I want to re-do it? Is it a trade? Would we be re-doing it if Remain had won? If we re-do Brexit can Trump re-do the American election if he loses?

Ultimately, it was a fair vote (some dodgy dealing by the government regarding leaflets aside), so starting a trend of rerunning any election if people complain hard enough seems daft to me. If it'd gone the other way, I'd have been disappointed in the result but happy we at least got the chance to vote, and I'd have respected the result rather than pulling a Nicola Sturgeon and whining for yet another referendum I'd likely lose.

With mandatory voting? Gladly! I love mandatory voting. I think it's great for getting maximal turnout so that election campaigns aren't run on the platform of increasing turnout. Which is basically how they're run right now. That's why activists don't try to convince. They try to outrage and vilify and scare. Over 50% of the people voting for either candidate in at least one survey (so I'm not entirely certain how reliable it is) put 'to prevent the other person from winning' as their primary reason for voting. Other people have said they plan on screwing over their countrymen by voting for Trump and leaving so the whole system can burn to the ground. That's the terms they use. They don't give a shit about the people left behind who have to deal with the fire. I like mandatory voting because it means you don't need a second one. You get the whole picture, right then and there. If I remember correctly, it was the Leave voters leader who was saying that they would ask for a second referendum when they lost. They were almost certain they would lose, and that they'd use it to keep fighting. I think that if we're not gonna have mandatory voting, a re-do is pointless and asking for trouble.

In case you didn't notice, I like mandatory voting. :P

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:20:52 pm

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 11:09:57 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

And you're saying that you should decide who this applies to and what those consequences are, rather than the majority of citizens reaching that decision democratically?

Ideally, yes, but in this instance I'm happy to let democratically elected governments handle it for me.

So if you do support it being handled by a democratic process, then in a matter of such contention as this I presume you've got no issue with making certain that the will of the people is being carried out by utilising direct democracy, right?

After all, that's what referendums are for. Hell, as much as I'm glad to be out of the EU, I'd have been more than a little bit concerned if ol' Dodgy Dave had just decided to pull-out of his own accord.

Direct democracy's been tried a few times. Turns out temporary sentiment rules peoples minds far more easily than reason. That is, in fact, a third of the point of representative democracy.

EDIT: To make myself perfectly clear: If you're going to do direct democracy to try and see what people want, do it right, and make sure everyone votes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2016, 11:34:43 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:20:52 pm

At this point I think you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Of for the love of

Equating belief in the FSM to belief in altruism is extremely silly

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:20:52 pm

So if you do support it being handled by a democratic process, then in a matter of such contention as this I presume you've got no issue with making certain that the will of the people is being carried out by utilising direct democracy, right?

After all, that's what referendums are for. Hell, as much as I'm glad to be out of the EU, I'd have been more than a little bit concerned if ol' Dodgy Dave had just decided to pull-out of his own accord.

I think direct democracy is a terrible system and I would prefer people who actually know what they're doing to make decisions. If people don't like it they can vote for a different party next time an election rolls around.

Referendums are useful, certainly, but applying them to particularly nuanced matters is quite self-destructive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 10, 2016, 11:40:35 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:01:34 am

As opposed to what we're doing at the moment, which is funding Israel in their efforts to destabilize half the Middle East and make the problem that much worse?

Let me make an educated guess: you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 10, 2016, 11:54:25 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:52:09 pm

JIDF please go.

Yep. i Was right.   :D

Not only you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, you will lump up every Jew that tries to reason with your ignorance/Israeli into a conspiratory organization. that's not just ignorance, that's ignorant bigotry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 11:57:25 pm

Dropping FPTP is probably the single best thing we can do for democracy.

At least we agree on some things. *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 12:15:41 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 12:09:33 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 10, 2016, 11:57:25 pm

Dropping FPTP is probably the single best thing we can do for democracy.

At least we agree on some things. *shrug*

Yeah, it is actually nice seeing while reading your posts that despite our strong disagreements we do have some common ground.

Although it's not that surprising. In all truthfulness, your posts remind me quite a bit of what I might have written myself ten or so years ago. I'm afraid you might be looking at your future ;)

Either way, it was good talking with you, and I appreciate that you kept it rational and in good faith despite our strongly-opposed stances.

I certainly hope not, no offense meant.

It would waste a large portion of my life, considering I'm going into nanotech to try and essentially cure death. :/

But yeah, rational discussion seems to be a rarity nowadays. More so on the internet. I've heard that PMs tend to be better than public discussion because it means people stop arguing performatively, intentionally or unintentionally, for an audience.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 12:28:10 am

I meant in terms of self-interest :P

Making your life goal one of helping other people isn't very much in line with that. Though there'll be a demand for nanotechnologists anyway, I suppose. And it's not entirely selfless. I don't like dying either, after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 07:31:03 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:47:44 pm

I'm saying that helping others despite it being to your own detriment is a choice. For it to be a moral obligation would require absolute morality, which does not exist. As it is, everyone decides their own moral code. Someone condemning you for not going to church on Sunday is attacking you for not following the code they they have chosen to follow.

Simply because you feel the desire or obligation to take in refugees, it doesn't mean that that desire or sense of obligation is universal, despite the prevalence of echo chambers these days.

All I'm calling for is that you allow people to choose for themselves what they wish to contribute, or how they wish to vote in regards things like refugees, etc, rather than trying to browbeat them into it with this 'But you have to! Human rights! It's our moral obligation!' nonsense. Because when you do that you sound just like the religious fundamentalists of a bygone age, trying to tell others what is moral and what is immoral.

I mean, if that 'But it's sinful not to!' stuff is the best argument you can come up with then stick with it I guess, but when we do finally get our day at the polls I really don't think it's going to get you much support.

Where do you draw the line with this kind of reasoning? If you refuse all externally-imposed forms of morality, what's stopping you from doing whatever you will to the detriment of others? If your personal moral code does not obligate you to help anyone in mortal peril, why should it obligate you to refrain from e.g. robbing and murdering people whenever it benefits you? Of course, coexistence and cooperation are usually more beneficial than wanton violence, but what's wrong with a little bit of murder if you can get away with it? I mean, if that 'But it's sinful to kill!' nonsense is the best argument against murder you can come up with, then I don't think your moral code is going to get much support in a society of free and rational self-interested actors. A society that truly respects the moral autonomy of its citizens must allow them to choose for themselves what they wish to take or contribute, and taking a life is just one rational choice among others. All this empty talk about 'moral obligations' makes you sound just like the religious fundamentalists of a bygone age, trying to tell others what is moral and what is immoral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 11, 2016, 07:38:59 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 07:31:03 am

Where do you draw the line with this kind of reasoning?

Usual argument is "no-one is permitted to infringe upon anyone else's rights", so killing and stealing is infringing upon a person's right to bodily integrity and personal property.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 07:53:52 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 11, 2016, 07:38:59 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 07:31:03 am

Where do you draw the line with this kind of reasoning?

Usual argument is "no-one is permitted to infringe upon anyone else's rights", so killing and stealing is infringing upon a person's right to bodily integrity and personal property.

If you see someone drowning in water, leaving them be is not an infringement upon their rights. In fact, trying to "help" them would be a presumptuous insult to their liberty and bodily integrity.

(Also, "no-one is permitted to infringe upon anyone else's rights" is an example of externally-imposed universal morality par excellence. Covenant has already proved that it's irrational religious bullshit that has nothing to do with true morality.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 11, 2016, 07:59:50 am

You don't draw the line in morals. Not hurting anyone just because the law is against it doesn't mean that it has to be an absolute moral that is to be followed all of the time. I do not want to hurt anyone right now, but I recognize that at some point even law-breaking violence or threat of that isnt only for self defense may be the best course of action. I do value value the benefit of myself and everyone I care about over others' which may or may not conflict with the law or imposed "morals".

The way I see it, is that teamwork tends to help everyone within a society(a lot of the time any way), and thus an individual tends to be a valuable resource to the group of people working together or society(which means individuals are valuable to each other). Laws and "morals", that are "decided together"(or not!) prevent, punish or limit individuals within the society from competing one another too much, including killing one another, and thus from hurting the interests of the society. Law and order becomes useful, even if it were in individual cases disadvantageous to an individual's immediate interests in for example accumulating personal wealth.

Thus, I choose to follow law because its advantageous to me. Something that is hard-wired into me also finds helping others rewarding, so even if I were to break the law, I would likely do whatever I were to do because I found it advantageous to more than just myself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 11, 2016, 08:09:10 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

What on earth are you talking about? You really think that instability in the Arab world is a planned act by Israel?
That's either some tinfoil hat level conspiracy nutting there, or a deliberate attempt at spreading anti-Israel sentiment by using desinformation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 08:33:36 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

Why are you imposing your own arbitrary morals on Israel? Simply because you feel the desire or obligation to not destabilize the Middle East, it doesn't mean that that desire or sense of obligation is universal, despite the prevalence of echo chambers these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 09:46:29 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

Ultimately, it was a fair vote (some dodgy dealing by the government regarding leaflets aside), so starting a trend of rerunning any election if people complain hard enough seems daft to me. If it'd gone the other way, I'd have been disappointed in the result but happy we at least got the chance to vote, and I'd have respected the result rather than pulling a Nicola Sturgeon and whining for yet another referendum I'd likely lose.

When was she whining for another referendum? She was the only political leader (of any consequence) to do as the meme says and keep calm. Cameron resigned, throwing the Tories into chaos, Labour for some inexplicable reason turned down the opportunity to attack their biggest rivals in favour of attacking their own leader. The first thing that Sturgeon said when the results became known was that all EU citizens in Scotland were welcome and not to worry about their future in the country. Not heard that from anyone else in the UK.

She asked a group of experts (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36645355) to examine how Scotland can protect its interests in the EU.

Now, every single Scottish council area voted to Remain. Every. Single. One. I think that means the people of Scotland have given Sturgeon a mandate to do everything she possibly can to get Scotland to remain in the EU, and I'm surprised that you, when you say things like this:

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 09:47:44 pm

I don't believe in picking and choosing when we follow the principles of democracy.

Don't seem to think that Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will is a problem. Or is it just because it would go against your own self-interest that you don't give a shit?

Edit: I'm also curious if you have a link to the Corbyn interview you cited. My Google-fu fails me :'(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 10:07:09 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 11, 2016, 08:09:10 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

What on earth are you talking about? You really think that instability in the Arab world is a planned act by Israel?
That's either some tinfoil hat level conspiracy nutting there, or a deliberate attempt at spreading anti-Israel sentiment by using desinformation.

As i said, either he completely have no idea what he is talking about, or have no idea what he is talking about but still do so out of racism against Jews.

Since i seem to recall i once refuted his claim that "we" fund Israel but he still keeps making it, i suspect the latter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

:U
While I'm not one to apreciate Israel's foreign policies and general treatment of the palestinean people, Israel is only one minor factor in the huge clusterfuck of ancient hatred and political turmoil that made the middle eastern/arab world what it is today. There's a few tons of cultural, social and geopolitical factors that spawned and maintains the storm of conflict that persists in the middle east, with some being several hundred years old.

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 11, 2016, 11:06:45 am

Quote from: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

:U
While I'm not one to apreciate Israel's foreign policies and general treatment of the palestinean people, Israel is only one minor factor in the huge clusterfuck of ancient hatred and political turmoil that made the middle eastern/arab world what it is today. There's a few tons of cultural, social and geopolitical factors that spawned and maintains the storm of conflict that persists in the middle east, with some being several hundred years old.

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Personally I would say that the creation of Israel is the chief factor that gave audience to the sort of radical Islamist militancy we see today, or at least the kind that would actively target the west instead of staying home. If not for Israel, the oil, and cold war delusions of strategic importance, I'd wager that the middle east would be more like what most of Africa and southeast Asia is today than what it is now; about as messed up, but nobody would care. Israel's a glaring contemporary reminder of foreign hostility and imperialism, with open and obvious connections to religion, and as a result is the single best recruiting tool and source of sympathy for radical Islamists, terrorists or not.

The cat's out of the bag now of course, it's too late for it to be resolved by anything but time (though the time remaining on the clock goes up every time Israel retaliates, or the US either topples a government or lets the CIA train their torture corps). While I think things would be better if the British government hadn't listened to zionists, or Truman hadn't strongarmed and bribed the UN into supporting Israel, it's mostly an academic point now, and of course the people of Israel living there now have every right to a safe existence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 11:14:45 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on August 11, 2016, 11:06:45 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

:U
While I'm not one to apreciate Israel's foreign policies and general treatment of the palestinean people, Israel is only one minor factor in the huge clusterfuck of ancient hatred and political turmoil that made the middle eastern/arab world what it is today. There's a few tons of cultural, social and geopolitical factors that spawned and maintains the storm of conflict that persists in the middle east, with some being several hundred years old.

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Personally I would say that the creation of Israel is the chief factor that gave audience to the sort of radical Islamist militancy we see today, or at least the kind that would actively target the west instead of staying home. If not for Israel, the oil, and cold war delusions of strategic importance, I'd wager that the middle east would be more like what most of Africa and southeast Asia is today than what it is now; about as messed up, but nobody would care. Israel's a glaring contemporary reminder of foreign hostility and imperialism, with open and obvious connections to religion, and as a result is the single best recruiting tool and source of sympathy for radical Islamists, terrorists or not.

The cat's out of the bag now of course, it's too late for it to be resolved by anything but time (though the time remaining on the clock goes up every time Israel retaliates, or the US either topples a government or lets the CIA train their torture corps). While I think things would be better if the British government hadn't listened to zionists, or Truman hadn't strongarmed and bribed the UN into supporting Israel, it's mostly an academic point now, and of course the people of Israel living there now have every right to a safe existence.

The radical Islamic militancy we see today was also seen long long long before Israel's creation.

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 10:53:02 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 09:46:29 am

When was she whining for another referendum?

I have no clue what reality you're living in. Sturgeon was constantly whining for another independence referendum. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030) She even flew over to Brussels to beg EU leaders to back her up (and failed pretty miserably from what it seems). Not to mention that nonsense about vetoing it.

Perhaps Alyn Smith's 'I beg you' speech to in the EU parliament put a tear in your eye and made you feel all patriotic and start remembering the best bits of Braveheart, but for me all it did was make me embarrassed for the Scottish people.

Quote from: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 09:46:29 am

Don't seem to think that Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will is a problem. Or is it just because it would go against your own self-interest that you don't give a shit?

I don't care if all (or, like in Scotland, 60% of) the houses on the next street vote Red; if more people in the country overall vote Blue, then Blue wins the election. That street can't turn around and say 'But that's not what we voted for, we don't want to follow the rules now!'.

Well, I mean, they can, but it's bloody stupid.

Scotland voted decisively to stay as a part of the UK, for better or worse. The people of Scotland aren't stupid, so the argument of 'But they didn't think X would happen!' doesn't hold much water with me. For one thing, David Cameron had already promised the EU referendum at the time Scotland had its independence referendum, so they knew what was coming. They chose to stay. One day perhaps there'll be enough demand for them to get a second Independence referendum, but we can't be doing it all the time, or we'd end up with one everytime we have a Tory PM.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 07:31:03 am

Where do you draw the line with this kind of reasoning? If you refuse all externally-imposed forms of morality, what's stopping you from doing whatever you will to the detriment of others? If your personal moral code does not obligate you to help anyone in mortal peril, why should it obligate you to refrain from e.g. robbing and murdering people whenever it benefits you? Of course, coexistence and cooperation are usually more beneficial than wanton violence, but what's wrong with a little bit of murder if you can get away with it?

Quote from: Erkki on August 11, 2016, 07:59:50 am

Thus, I choose to follow law because its advantageous to me. Something that is hard-wired into me also finds helping others rewarding, so even if I were to break the law, I would likely do whatever I were to do because I found it advantageous to more than just myself.

Exactly - I have no idea why this is so hard for some people to understand. I quoted this bit in particular because it demonstrates self-recognition that Erkki personally finds helping others rewarding, but is under no illusion that everyone else feels the same way or that there is some kind of imperative that they do feel that way.

We live and work together in society because it is to the benefit of us all. We have laws that impose certain rules because they improve society to the benefit of us all. It would be no benefit to me to live in a lawless society where the biggest and meaning people stole and killed anyone weaker, because I am not the biggest and meanest person.

You say 'Of course, coexistence and cooperation are usually more beneficial than wanton violence, but what's wrong with a little bit of murder if you can get away with it?'. Have you ever watched an episode of Columbo? Plenty of people will kill if they believe they can get away with it and stand to benefit significantly. Luckily we have the police and rule of law to prevent such behaviour, but there's nothing irrational about their actions.

If I were in a situation where I/my family could gain significantly at the cost of harming someone else, with absolutely no risk of being 'caught'? I don't know how I'd act - I'd like to imagine that I would refrain, because I do have a moral code. But I recognise that it is a code that I have arbitrarily decided on, and that I choose to follow (I do what 'feels right' to me). Expecting anyone else to have decided on the same moral code and therefore to follow it is foolish. To some people it 'feels right' to pray 5 times a day, or to only eat with a certain hand. It makes as much sense to say that is 'morally correct' as anything else.

The really odd thing in this is that demographics on these forums being what they are, there's a high chance the majority of you are atheists, yet you're seemingly arguing for the existence of some sort of absolute morality figure who dings your actions up as 'Moral' or 'Immoral' on a cosmic karma meter.

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 08:33:36 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

Why are you imposing your own arbitrary morals on Israel? Simply because you feel the desire or obligation to not destabilize the Middle East, it doesn't mean that that desire or sense of obligation is universal, despite the prevalence of echo chambers these days.

The difference between us is that I'm not saying 'But why are Israel doing this!? It's WRONG!'. I understand perfectly well why they're doing it, and how it benefits them. But it's not to my advantage, my country's advantage, or many Arabs' advantage, so I don't support helping them do it.

Quote from: martinuzz on August 11, 2016, 08:09:10 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

than aiding Israel in destabilizing every nearby Arab country is a tragic, horrific, destructive farce.

What on earth are you talking about? You really think that instability in the Arab world is a planned act by Israel?
That's either some tinfoil hat level conspiracy nutting there, or a deliberate attempt at spreading anti-Israel sentiment by using desinformation.

Some instability? Certainly.

Quote from: Covenant on January 15, 2016, 05:31:49 am

And for one last thing, an even better way of dealing with the problem would be to stop giving Israel money hand over fist that it uses to destablise surrounding Arab regimes. (http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-syrian-rebels-keeping-druze-safe-in-exchange-for-israeli-aid/)

There was a policy paper prepared in '96 for Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu - it was called 'A Clean Break' (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm), and it said, amongst other things, that 'Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions'. (And removing Saddam sure was a good move for us, right? Not like it allowed extremist groups like Al'Qaeda and ISIS to gain a huge degree of power and influence in Iraq, right?).

Netanyahu apparently rejected the policy back then. But it seems like now, on his second go-around, he's changed his mind.

Quote from: Baffler on February 08, 2016, 05:32:42 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on February 08, 2016, 05:02:32 pm

What kind of aid the UK give to Israel, and how, considering Israel is the only stable country in the middle east, it destabilizes the middle east?

The UK gives Israel ~8 billion pounds of aid, mostly in the form of favorable contracts for military hardware export licenses. There may be more, but if there is it's peanuts by comparison.

Israel is widely believed (I don't feel like examining the claim, but anyway all that matters here is that it's taken seriously) to take covert action against its neighbors, especially in the Middle East, and is known worldwide for openly taking bites out of them. If the Arab states can look beyond their own borders, it's fairly likely to be with an eye toward Israel; at least in the Israeli perception which is again all that really matters. The mistrust is both a cause and effect of Israel's actions, but with Israel so much more able to act things end up being a little bit disproportionate. They above all others stand to gain from a certain level of chaos in the area.

January and February of this year. That's the particularly annoying thing, Vilanat - we've already had this conversation. Nothing has changed since then, no one is making any new arguments, and it's not even the point of what was being discussed. So rather than have the same argument again, for a third time this year - JIDF please go.

Though I suppose I should thank you for making me dig through the old posts, as I'd been looking for that 'A Clean Break' paper and had forgotten the name of it. Cheers!

Quote from: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Never said they were - there's a hell of a lot more fucked up about this situation with the Middle East and refugees and everything else than just that.

So, wait, your response is digging up your previous response which, as you said, is based on "belief"? yep, you have no idea what are talking about. and you are right, we did discuss this earlier, but since you keep making the same flawed arguments, i call bigotry. BPP go.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 11:25:17 am

What good points? as he said, it is based on belief. what kind of flawed argument is that?

I also actually took the time to click those links you provided. so, wait, let me get your reasoning right: Israel humanitary help, mainly for the FSA, THE Western Ally in Syria, in exchange for the protection of the Druze population in Syria is now an active effort by Israel to destabalize the Middle East? yeah, BPP go.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 11:33:39 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 10:53:02 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 09:46:29 am

When was she whining for another referendum?

I have no clue what reality you're living in. Sturgeon was constantly whining for another independence referendum. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36621030) She even flew over to Brussels to beg EU leaders to back her up (and failed pretty miserably from what it seems). Not to mention that nonsense about vetoing it.

So her doing something she said she would do in her manifesto (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2016-scotland-36093405) (a point made in the article you linked to) is somehow her whining now? Is Scotland being taken out of the EU against its democratic will not a significant or material change?

I'm also curious why you think it's "whining" when she is quoted as saying this in the article:

Quote from: Nicola Sturgeon

Asked if there were any other options available to the Scottish government, she replied: "I think an independence referendum is now highly likely but I also think it is important that we take time to consider all steps and have the discussions, not least to assess the response of the European Union to the vote that Scotland expressed yesterday."

She said she thinks the referendum is likely, but it's not the only option available. Does that sound like someone who's demanding the Scottish people take up their mattocks and hit the border hard enough that they float away?

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 10:53:02 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 09:46:29 am

Don't seem to think that Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will is a problem. Or is it just because it would go against your own self-interest that you don't give a shit?

I don't care if all (or, like in Scotland, 60% of) the houses on the next street vote Red; if more people in the country overall vote Blue, then Blue wins the election. That street can't turn around and say 'But that's not what we voted for, we don't want to follow the rules now!'.

Well, I mean, they can, but it's bloody stupid.

Scotland voted decisively to stay as a part of the UK, for better or worse. The people of Scotland aren't stupid, so the argument of 'But they didn't think X would happen!' doesn't hold much water with me. For one thing, David Cameron had already promised the EU referendum at the time Scotland had its independence referendum, so they knew what was coming. They chose to stay. One day perhaps there'll be enough demand for them to get a second Independence referendum, but we can't be doing it all the time, or we'd end up with one everytime we have a Tory PM.

Sturgeon isn't a British politician though, she's a Scottish one. Leader of the Scottish parliament. She isn't saying that "the people of Scotland didn't think X would happen", she's saying has a mandate from the Scottish people to stay in the EU. Which I think it's fair to say she does.

Do you expect her to ignore that, when Scotland voted even more decisively to stay in the EU than they did to stay as part of the UK, as well as by a much more significant margin than the proverbial bawhair that the rUK England and Wales voted to leave it?

Or, in other words the joke: "A Scotsman, Englishman and Northern Irishman all go to a bar. They have to leave because the Englishman wanted to go."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:38:47 am

Quote from: Erkki on August 11, 2016, 07:59:50 am

You don't draw the line in morals. Not hurting anyone just because the law is against it doesn't mean that it has to be an absolute moral that is to be followed all of the time. I do not want to hurt anyone right now, but I recognize that at some point even law-breaking violence or threat of that isnt only for self defense may be the best course of action. I do value value the benefit of myself and everyone I care about over others' which may or may not conflict with the law or imposed "morals".

The way I see it, is that teamwork tends to help everyone within a society(a lot of the time any way), and thus an individual tends to be a valuable resource to the group of people working together or society(which means individuals are valuable to each other). Laws and "morals", that are "decided together"(or not!) prevent, punish or limit individuals within the society from competing one another too much, including killing one another, and thus from hurting the interests of the society. Law and order becomes useful, even if it were in individual cases disadvantageous to an individual's immediate interests in for example accumulating personal wealth.

Thus, I choose to follow law because its advantageous to me. Something that is hard-wired into me also finds helping others rewarding, so even if I were to break the law, I would likely do whatever I were to do because I found it advantageous to more than just myself.

Case

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 12:15:41 am

But yeah, rational discussion seems to be a rarity nowadays. More so on the internet. I've heard that PMs tend to be better than public discussion because it means people stop arguing performatively, intentionally or unintentionally, for an audience.

Point

:/ Sometimes I hate being right

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:43:38 am

I think his point about Scotland may have been that they might want another referendum now that the main reason they stayed (that I know of) is gone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 11, 2016, 11:50:53 am

Quote from: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 11:14:45 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on August 11, 2016, 11:06:45 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

:U
While I'm not one to apreciate Israel's foreign policies and general treatment of the palestinean people, Israel is only one minor factor in the huge clusterfuck of ancient hatred and political turmoil that made the middle eastern/arab world what it is today. There's a few tons of cultural, social and geopolitical factors that spawned and maintains the storm of conflict that persists in the middle east, with some being several hundred years old.

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Personally I would say that the creation of Israel is the chief factor that gave audience to the sort of radical Islamist militancy we see today, or at least the kind that would actively target the west instead of staying home. If not for Israel, the oil, and cold war delusions of strategic importance, I'd wager that the middle east would be more like what most of Africa and southeast Asia is today than what it is now; about as messed up, but nobody would care. Israel's a glaring contemporary reminder of foreign hostility and imperialism, with open and obvious connections to religion, and as a result is the single best recruiting tool and source of sympathy for radical Islamists, terrorists or not.

The cat's out of the bag now of course, it's too late for it to be resolved by anything but time (though the time remaining on the clock goes up every time Israel retaliates, or the US either topples a government or lets the CIA train their torture corps). While I think things would be better if the British government hadn't listened to zionists, or Truman hadn't strongarmed and bribed the UN into supporting Israel, it's mostly an academic point now, and of course the people of Israel living there now have every right to a safe existence.

The radical Islamic militancy we see today was also seen long long long before Israel's creation.

Is there any evidence of this?  I don't think any of the political Islamists of the 19th and early 20th century were anywhere near as aggressive or extreme, and there isn't any link between them and the modern radical Islamic terrorist groups, either ideologically or politically. Even throughout European colonial history, I don't think there are examples of what would now be called Islamic terrorism. It seems a bit ridiculous to even talk about terrorism before the end of WWII, in my opinion.

I'm not implying that Islamists wouldn't exist without Israel, only that the radical terrorist groups that spring from it would get less local sympathy and wouldn't be nearly as interested in attacking places outside their country of origin. There's not much that can be changed now, but I think it's worth recognizing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 11:55:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:42:05 am

Yes, I'd say a coordinated effort to provide medical care to Syrian rebel fighters going back as far as 2013 (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.630359) does contribute toward destabilising nearby countries. Not that it's just medical care, of course - they're potentially arming them as well.

Quote from: The linked article

Further reports indicated similar incidents. However, cooperation between the IDF and Syrian rebels that was revealed in UN observer reports does not just include transferring the wounded. Observers remarked in the report distributed on June 10 that they identified IDF soldiers on the Israeli side handing over two boxes to armed Syrian opposition members on the Syrian side.

And I presume you mean BNP, rather than BPP? Otherwise I have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

Hector, I regret forgetting that I'd intended to stop replying to you. You asked when she was whining for another referendum, I answer you, and you switch to whining about my use of the word whining. Whining. Whining. Anyway, let's go back to the previous paradigm.

(But while I'm here, to answer the second half of your post - I'm sorry, but Scotland is a part of the UK. Until you manage to get the result you want on an independence referendum, you have to deal with it and all that it entails. Hell, you don't just have to - you CHOSE to, in 2014. Democratically ;))

Sorry, did you just ignore the rest of the post in which I pointed out that the not-very-significant margin of 52-48 was less than the slightly more significant margin of 62-38? Or that what you said Sturgeon said was not quite what she actually said?

I mean I'm quite happy not to hear you respond to my arguments, since I don't get to see you selectively ignore the parts that are quite pertinent to the parts to which I'm responding.

Anyway, since 2014, the Independence Referendum, then they've chosen to almost completely wipe out British political parties as representatives of the Scottish constituencies in the UK parliament, elect another SNP (admittedly minority, though that could be argued to be a result of the List votes system) and vote overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, but have their democratic will ignored in favour of England, as per.

PPE: a single poll, nice. Does that show Scotland's political will better than actual elections and referendums?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 12:26:00 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:42:05 am

Yes, I'd say a coordinated effort to provide medical care to Syrian rebel fighters going back as far as 2013 (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.630359) does contribute toward destabilising nearby countries. Not that it's just medical care, of course - they're potentially arming them as well.

Quote from: The linked article

Further reports indicated similar incidents. However, cooperation between the IDF and Syrian rebels that was revealed in UN observer reports does not just include transferring the wounded. Observers remarked in the report distributed on June 10 that they identified IDF soldiers on the Israeli side handing over two boxes to armed Syrian opposition members on the Syrian side.

And I presume you mean BNP, rather than BPP? Otherwise I have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

If the potential for arming them is two boxes, then wow, that is VERY suspicious. two boxes is precisely what it takes for a perfectly stable country to become destabalized i guess. (Never mind that two boxes could very likely be medical aid, because, ya know, giving that most of these "IDF soldiers" are actually military medics and doctors)

And no, providing medical assistance to THE western ally, THE sane secular force in Syria, for the protection of a defenseless minority population is not destabalizing nearby countries. A), it's only one country, B) it's less than a percentage of the support the West grant these exact same forces, C) its influence on the greater Syrian civil war is nile D) it's for a good cause, which is something the Syrian civil war seems to lack in spades. E) Syria was already a fricking cluster fuck to begin with with nothing to do with Israel F) you have no idea what you are talking about. BPP go.

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on August 11, 2016, 11:50:53 am

Quote from: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 11:14:45 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on August 11, 2016, 11:06:45 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: TempAcc on August 11, 2016, 10:28:05 am

:U
While I'm not one to apreciate Israel's foreign policies and general treatment of the palestinean people, Israel is only one minor factor in the huge clusterfuck of ancient hatred and political turmoil that made the middle eastern/arab world what it is today. There's a few tons of cultural, social and geopolitical factors that spawned and maintains the storm of conflict that persists in the middle east, with some being several hundred years old.

Not saying Israel didn't cause part of the problems that affect it, but it is far, faaaar from being the main cause of it.

Personally I would say that the creation of Israel is the chief factor that gave audience to the sort of radical Islamist militancy we see today, or at least the kind that would actively target the west instead of staying home. If not for Israel, the oil, and cold war delusions of strategic importance, I'd wager that the middle east would be more like what most of Africa and southeast Asia is today than what it is now; about as messed up, but nobody would care. Israel's a glaring contemporary reminder of foreign hostility and imperialism, with open and obvious connections to religion, and as a result is the single best recruiting tool and source of sympathy for radical Islamists, terrorists or not.

The cat's out of the bag now of course, it's too late for it to be resolved by anything but time (though the time remaining on the clock goes up every time Israel retaliates, or the US either topples a government or lets the CIA train their torture corps). While I think things would be better if the British government hadn't listened to zionists, or Truman hadn't strongarmed and bribed the UN into supporting Israel, it's mostly an academic point now, and of course the people of Israel living there now have every right to a safe existence.

The radical Islamic militancy we see today was also seen long long long before Israel's creation.

Is there any evidence of this?  I don't think any of the political Islamists of the 19th and early 20th century were anywhere near as aggressive or extreme, and there isn't any link between them and the modern radical Islamic terrorist groups, either ideologically or politically. Even throughout European colonial history, I don't think there are examples of what would now be called Islamic terrorism. It seems a bit ridiculous to even talk about terrorism before the end of WWII, in my opinion.

I'm not implying that Islamists wouldn't exist without Israel, only that the radical terrorist groups that spring from it would get less local sympathy and wouldn't be nearly as interested in attacking places outside their country of origin. There's not much that can be changed now, but I think it's worth recognizing.

I am not sure i understand the term political Islamists. Islamism is almost political as much as it is religious. it's sharia laws address political affairs just as it address state affairs. you can't have true Islam apolitically.

Islamic terrorism, as seen today, was not possible in the 18th century, but this is just a form adapted to modern means, not an essence. Islamic militarism was very similar in essence to what we see to day though. fatwas, jihads, religious civil wars all included. check out baghdad historic timeline, go back to 1600 and the descriptions would sound extremely similar to what we have today. heck, even the term Assassin is derived from the Hashashins and when you take away the romantic aroma attached to it you are basically left with near ISIS like terrorists.

Now, i don't object to the fact the existence of Israel pisses some extremely lunatic racists, granted, that is a contributing factor indeed, but just one factor and it's only a factor because of their extremely lunatic religious bigotry to begin with.

I even maintain that the presence of Israel is actually a somewhat stabalizing factor for Arab countries. so long there's an evil enemy out there in the form of Jews, who cares about internal struggles? Take a look at Syria's Sunni insurgencies throughout the years and notice that they usually take major swings after defeats by Israel. when the Muslim Arabs realized Israel can not be conquered so easily, they abandoned their outside enemy and turned their attention at internal matters. and well, we all know Syria/Iraq/Iran/Egypt/Lebanon and Jordan are not role models for how to run a country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on August 11, 2016, 12:37:04 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 12:26:00 pm

F) you have no idea what you are talking about. BPP go.

On the contrary, it seems he knows quite a bit about what he's talking about, which is something that I really can't say for you, given how your default response to any criticism of Israel is to accuse the critic of being antisemitic. So please, do the rest of us a favor and either come up with an actual argument, or just stop talking and let us move on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 12:45:55 pm

Does he? please, do show.

plus, i think i came up with more arguments than that. A-E?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2016, 12:46:31 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on August 11, 2016, 12:45:55 pm

Does he? please, do show.

+1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 02:46:38 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:46:16 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:43:38 am

I think his point about Scotland may have been that they might want another referendum now that the main reason they stayed (that I know of) is gone.

The polls don't bear that out I'm afraid. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/)

And Rolepgeek, what did you mean in your last post? I thought Erkki's comments about morality were thoughtful and well-written. What were you implying when you quoted them?

It looked to me like he was trying to mock your point by shifting words around and otherwise shift them to make a parody of an actual position. Perhaps I misinterpreted him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 11, 2016, 02:55:33 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 02:46:38 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:46:16 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:43:38 am

I think his point about Scotland may have been that they might want another referendum now that the main reason they stayed (that I know of) is gone.

The polls don't bear that out I'm afraid. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/)

And Rolepgeek, what did you mean in your last post? I thought Erkki's comments about morality were thoughtful and well-written. What were you implying when you quoted them?

It looked to me like he was trying to mock your point by shifting words around and otherwise shift them to make a parody of an actual position. Perhaps I misinterpreted him.

There was no hidden message or point. I did not intend to mock anyone, even if I was mildly annoyed by some of the previous posts when typing it.

I have some more thoughts on the subject but I don't think this to be the right thread for them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 03:06:41 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 02:53:39 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 02:46:38 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:46:16 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:43:38 am

I think his point about Scotland may have been that they might want another referendum now that the main reason they stayed (that I know of) is gone.

The polls don't bear that out I'm afraid. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/)

And Rolepgeek, what did you mean in your last post? I thought Erkki's comments about morality were thoughtful and well-written. What were you implying when you quoted them?

It looked to me like he was trying to mock your point by shifting words around and otherwise shift them to make a parody of an actual position. Perhaps I misinterpreted him.

Ah, you might have quoted the wrong person by mistake then - SirQuiamus appeared to be doing something like that.

There was, I think, a night between when I saw what was said and when I posted that. So I think maybe I remembered someone did that and sorta skimmed. :/ Sorry Erkki.

Still disagree with you on morals, but that's another matter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 04:00:57 pm

I don't personally support moral relativism, but I'm totally fine with those who do. You may not believe in universal human rights, but that's just your opinion and none of my business, really. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and all opinions are equally valuable, aren't they? So let's build a safe and tolerant world together, shall we?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 11, 2016, 07:05:14 pm

I'm pretty sure you would if they just got both and left you in a sufficiently out of the way ditch. You don't have an option besides tolerate if you're dead~

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 07:22:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 11, 2016, 07:02:19 pm

How tolerant, though? Like hell I'll tolerate a stolen kidney!

What about half a liver? Those grow back, after all...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 11, 2016, 07:29:18 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 11, 2016, 07:25:56 pm

If you're gonna take shit from me, it'll be with my consent!

Did I just see you volunteer as a poop transplant donor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 08:48:41 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 11, 2016, 07:25:56 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 07:22:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 11, 2016, 07:02:19 pm

How tolerant, though? Like hell I'll tolerate a stolen kidney!

What about half a liver? Those grow back, after all...

I am NOT having people steal my organs, internal or external. Nor any part of my body. If you're gonna take shit from me, it'll be with my consent!

I automatically give my consent to medical procedures that'll save my life, though. So I'm not consenting to someone stealing my nadgers, but I'll consent to someone removing them to stop some nadger cancer trying to murder me.

I take it you have a lot of love-hate relationships

After all,  they just stole your heart~

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 12:05:45 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 04:00:57 pm

I don't personally support moral relativism, but I'm totally fine with those who do. You may not believe in universal human rights, but that's just your opinion and none of my business, really. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and all opinions are equally valuable, aren't they? So let's build a safe and tolerant world together, shall we?

Moral relativism has IMHO little to do with tolerance(towards, say, other cultures), let alone (the UN-defined) universal human rights. For example, I personally recognize that people share different values, life stance and traditions than I do, but I do not tolerate them all. Not tolerating someones values does not mean that I wouldn't respect these "universal human rights" or whatever they are defined by the society I live within, given the right situation.

Moral relativism just means that objectively there is no right or wrong. This means that objectively, not everyones opinion holds the same value either, but it indeed depends. Your average Chinese citizen has an opinion value approaching zero within his society, but in actual democratic nations with actual freedom of speech(or well, however that is defined) that value is both relatively and absolutely greater. I dont think that the ability of an individual's opinion to effect a society can be ever measured though, and at some point increasing weight of an individual's opinion and freedoms of act must become detrimential to the entire society(such as allowing duels to death).

Are you able to contribute to a discussion?

Quote from: greatorder on August 11, 2016, 07:25:56 pm

I automatically give my consent to medical procedures that'll save my life, though. So I'm not consenting to someone stealing my nadgers, but I'll consent to someone removing them to stop some nadger cancer trying to murder me.

A concent for life-saving dedical procedure involving stopping at traffic lights, a group of Brazilian thugs with guns, aimed at preventing a bullet entering your brain?  :P :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 12:46:14 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 04:00:57 pm

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and all opinions are equally valuable, aren't they?

It's my opinion that opinions are not inherently equal. If your opinion is stupid or nonsensical, then it is a worthless opinion and no-one is obligated to respect it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 01:17:56 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 12:46:14 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on August 11, 2016, 04:00:57 pm

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and all opinions are equally valuable, aren't they?

It's my opinion that opinions are not inherently equal. If your opinion is stupid or nonsensical, then it is a worthless opinion and no-one is obligated to respect it.

Indeed, but whether or not an opinion is such is a lot of the time relative. Let me know if the following makes any sense.

I find that in a discussion or decision making the parties attempt to overcome and win the "opponent", to gain social an/or other advantages. This may happen at all levels from conversation between two people to parliaments. This is natural, and thus conversations aiming to find the truth or best interpretation of a phenomenon or event is rare. We're still just monkeys yelling at each other and beating chest to rise oneself, offspring, relative or friend to better position within a society. Purpose of a debate, discussion or decision making thus rarely is in finding truth or best course of action for everyone but advantages to individuals or groups they represent, at best compromises and common ground. People are competitive and individualistic, decision making in a society(between entities that have the power to do so) is always more or less dishonest. Dishonest is born out of need of competition between individuals and factions. Fancy words like human rights or freedom or whatever can become just tools in an attempt to gain advantage, real or perceived, way or another to oneself or a group of people while not necessarily adding any value to the entire society.

This phenomenon of inter-society competition at multiple levels and the associated inheritent dishonesty in discussion and debate I believe is one of the reasons why certain organization are very hierarchic, that is, to prevent internal struggles and make decision making as rapid as possible. Societies themselves have structures of hierarchy, but not quite as strong as say, militaries. Common rules(laws), hierarchy and enforcement of those become advantages to a society and every individual within in.

What does this have to do with moral relativism? Well... I think that most morals are just constructs of natural or artificial social hierarchies, rules and customs. We believe that each of our moral is ultimately valuable to us personally, and our society, and they may involve appreciating or not appreciating values differing from our own. A Chinese or North Korean may be perfectly okay in not getting to decide where he or she even lives and thinks its for the greater good of everyone that the entire nation is almost in an Orwellian state of top-to-bottom control. A North Korean's morals and values likely differ vastly from ours, but on personal level at least, the morals have been formed by very similar phenomena.

Sure there could always true, objective best courses of actions to be taken at all times, but humans dont work that way. The man kind isn't a Klackonian hive mind composed of psychic, altruistic individuals.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 01:25:00 am

Quote from: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 01:17:56 am

Indeed, but whether or not an opinion is such is a lot of the time relative.

And a lot of things are objective. Science and statistics exist because objectivity is extremely useful. Opinions that defy rationality are less valuable than rational ones.

Quote from: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 01:17:56 am

Let me know if the following makes any sense.

I don't really understand what you're getting at for the most part

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 12, 2016, 01:27:00 am

He's a dirty Klackonian. Send the Darloks in to deal with them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 12, 2016, 01:35:05 am

Statistics is only objective in the same way a stacked set of cards objectively makes you win.

And the entire point of science as in the scientific method is that it isn't objective, just likely in less or more grade depending on how well trialed it has been.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 12, 2016, 01:36:27 am

The scientific method does at least try to reduce subjectivity.

Statistics can be made to show what you want them to show though.

See: Covenant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 01:37:56 am

Quote from: scriver on August 12, 2016, 01:35:05 am

And the entire point of science as in the scientific method is that it isn't objective, just likely in less or more grade depending on how well trialed it has been.

Um

the entire point of the scientific method is to be objective

subjectivity in science is bad juju

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on August 12, 2016, 01:43:51 am

At best it reduces subjectivity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 02:00:34 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 01:25:00 am

And a lot of things are objective. Science and statistics exist because objectivity is extremely useful. Opinions that defy rationality are less valuable than rational ones.

Aye, but irrational(or wrong) opinions, values, laws or traditions can be, by an individual, perceived as rational through these so called "morals". Making them subjective... If you believe in morals that is.

Scientific method I believe reduces dishonesty and subjectivity... Wether or not making decisions through scientific method is always best for everyone or in practice even possible I dont know. Maybe at some point we'll see an oligarchic nation where the ruling class is composed of scientists at some point so we can observe that. 100% objectively, of course.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 12, 2016, 12:19:45 pm

Quote from: Erkki on August 12, 2016, 02:00:34 am

Quote from: Orange Wizard on August 12, 2016, 01:25:00 am

And a lot of things are objective. Science and statistics exist because objectivity is extremely useful. Opinions that defy rationality are less valuable than rational ones.

Aye, but irrational(or wrong) opinions, values, laws or traditions can be, by an individual, perceived as rational through these so called "morals". Making them subjective... If you believe in morals that is.

Scientific method I believe reduces dishonesty and subjectivity... Wether or not making decisions through scientific method is always best for everyone or in practice even possible I dont know. Maybe at some point we'll see an oligarchic nation where the ruling class is composed of scientists at some point so we can observe that. 100% objectively, of course.  :P

A true technocracy would appear to be many different nations all with subtly and uniquely different government types, but multiples of each distinct type, possibly with just enough differences to allow isolation of variables within the styles of government, in order to determine which is the most effective.

Which means....!!!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on August 12, 2016, 12:25:07 pm

Illuminati. Boo?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 12, 2016, 12:39:08 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 12, 2016, 12:09:05 pm

Noticed that someone had edited in a request for a link to that Jeremy Corbyn interview I mentioned a couple of pages back; here it is. (https://youtu.be/UMLWsTy21fw?t=120)

Also worth watching to see him lose his rag with Jackie Long not once but twice (I could understand it if it were an annoying twat like Krishnan-Guru Murthy, but Jackie Long's one of the better C4 news presenters). He's not exactly a charming fella, that Corbyn.

Quote from: Covenant on August 10, 2016, 11:03:43 pm

... there was a recent interview with Jeremy Corbyn (leader of the Opposition in my country) ... It reached a point where the reporter was repeating to Corbyn 'But voters have told you what they want. They want less immigration', and with a angry sneer on his face, he snapped at her and basically said 'We know better. They might think they want that, but we know what is best for them.'

I thought you weren't responding to me no more.

He neither said nor did what you said he did.

He got annoyed with the reporter because she interrupted him (second time was more amusing since there was a massive pause between him talking and her "interrupting") and he never said anything near to what you said, even by praphrasing... Are you a non-Labour version of Alastair Campbell?

Granted he didn't answer the question either, but that's pretty much par for the course for politicians. The very famous Newsnight interview between Jeremy Paxman and Michael Howard is a fantastically amusing example of that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 12, 2016, 02:55:12 pm

Oh boy, it's the off-brand Loud Whispers, now with poorer fact-checking, and a disbelief in the human right to life instead of epic banter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 12, 2016, 03:02:21 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on August 12, 2016, 02:55:12 pm

Oh boy, it's the off-brand Loud Whispers, now with poorer fact-checking, and a disbelief in the human right to life instead of epic banter.

Hey, that's my job!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 12, 2016, 03:07:51 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 12, 2016, 03:02:21 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on August 12, 2016, 02:55:12 pm

Oh boy, it's the off-brand Loud Whispers, now with poorer fact-checking, and a disbelief in the human right to life instead of epic banter.

Hey, that's my job!

You should file a lawsuit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 13, 2016, 03:29:11 pm

29 Year old Aida Hadzialic, known for being both the youngest minister (of Higer Education) ever in Sweden, as well as the first muslim minister, has resigned, after she was caught by the police for drunk driving. She can face up to 6 months in prison as well, although usually the Swedish court settles drunk driving cases with a hefty fine.

I'm guessing she won't be welcome in the mosque anymore either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 13, 2016, 03:43:57 pm

How long was she in office?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 14, 2016, 07:59:47 am

2 years, I believe, from -14.

For further details, she got caught with 0.2 promille, which is also the limit for the crime of Steerdrunkery in Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2016, 08:03:15 am

Quote from: scriver on August 14, 2016, 07:59:47 am

Steerdrunkery

It took me longer than I'd like to cognate that this wasn't some Swedish legal term.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 14, 2016, 09:41:30 am

It's a little bit Swedish legal term, given that it is the direct translation of rattfylleri, our name for the crime of driving intoxicated.

Possibly also wheeldrunkery.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 14, 2016, 09:47:38 am

Quote from: scriver on August 14, 2016, 07:59:47 am

2 years, I believe, from -14.

For further details, she got caught with 0.2 promille, which is also the limit for the crime of Steerdrunkery in Sweden.

Funnily enough she would still have been legal here, the limit here is 0.22 promillle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on August 14, 2016, 11:46:28 am

She's Bosnian and over here she'd be fine with anything up to 0.5 :( Damn shame this happened, she was setting a great example for all the other Bosnians living in Sweden.

Also, I don't think there'll be any issues at the most, like 95% of Bosnian Muslims drink.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wobbly on August 14, 2016, 12:27:18 pm

Yep. I wouldn't put too much faith in the Muslims don't drink bit unless they're hardliners or conservatives. I've never actually met an Australian Muslim who wasn't a big drinker for instance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 15, 2016, 06:09:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 13, 2016, 03:29:11 pm

29 Year old Aida Hadzialic, known for being both the youngest minister (of Higer Education) ever in Sweden, as well as the first muslim minister, has resigned, after she was caught by the police for drunk driving. She can face up to 6 months in prison as well, although usually the Swedish court settles drunk driving cases with a hefty fine.

I'm guessing she won't be welcome in the mosque anymore either.

Nah fam just spin this with the angle of a positive recovery from a fall from grace

You try to make me go to rehab, I go ,أبدا, أبدا, أبدا

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 15, 2016, 01:32:26 pm

Meanwhile, Erdogan has made a statement that "if NATO allies remain unwilling to sell air defense systems (Patriot) to us, we will have to start looking for other partners who will."

While NATO has had Patriot systems installed in Turkey for years now, those have never been actually sold to Turkey. They are borrowed from various NATO members on rotation, and I'm not sure, but I believe they also remain under the direct command and control of NATO instead of the Turkish armed forces.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 15, 2016, 11:28:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 15, 2016, 01:32:26 pm

Meanwhile, Erdogan has made a statement that "if NATO allies remain unwilling to sell air defense systems (Patriot) to us, we will have to start looking for other partners who will."

While NATO has had Patriot systems installed in Turkey for years now, those have never been actually sold to Turkey. They are borrowed from various NATO members on rotation, and I'm not sure, but I believe they also remain under the direct command and control of NATO instead of the Turkish armed forces.

Just rhetorics... As if the alliance would be selling in power to sell them instead of US or other countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on August 16, 2016, 01:02:20 am

He is probably referring to Russian made Air defence systems, i presume.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Leafsnail on August 16, 2016, 01:39:17 pm

You can be 8 times higher than that in England. Although in Scotland you basically can't drink any alcohol before driving.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on August 16, 2016, 09:54:38 pm

Tsundere Erdogan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2016, 12:04:38 am

No, just thinly-veiled threats Erdogan. He's trying to get the best deal for Turkey - perhaps just himself - and he doesn't seem to give two shits if he burns bridges in the effort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 17, 2016, 05:59:02 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/17/490370053/turkey-releasing-38-000-prisoners-to-make-room-for-suspected-coup-plotters

All aboard the Purge Train! Choo Choo! It ain't got no breaks!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on August 18, 2016, 01:43:45 pm

Also, USA now moving their nukes out of Turkey, and reading between the lines, preparing to shut down operations at the Incirlik airbase...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 18, 2016, 03:21:57 pm

Seems to me that if Erdogan had not been acting like a flamboyant hotdog with delusions of Turkey's greatness and kept out of the international spotlight until now, he could've had all the purging he wants while continuing to play both sides. His failure to keep the US and EU sweet signals to me that his successor's going to have to try a little harder to keep a coalition's sword off his neck, if the country doesn't implode in Erdogan's lifetime.

But then again in fantasyland, maybe Trump will be president of the US, and selling his soul to Putin will look like a genius power play on the road to rebuilding a neo-Ottoman fascist Caliphate, coming soon to a Balkans near you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on August 18, 2016, 04:21:51 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on August 18, 2016, 03:21:57 pm

But then again in fantasyland, maybe Trump will be president of the US, and selling his soul to Putin will look like a genius power play on the road to rebuilding a neo-Ottoman fascist Caliphate, coming soon to a Balkans near you.

Don't be so realistic, mate! It gives me the jeepers-creepers! ´~`

When you think about it, Trump's "braggadocio" and Erdogan's "not flinching if I'm proven a murderous idiot"-style are actually one and the same: avoid admitting failure at all costs, even if it makes you look like an absurd buffoon in the eyes of a 21-century audience.

When you get down to it, this kind of idiocy is exactly what was known as "honour" in the olden days: the issue of losing or retaining one's honour has nothing at all to do with facts, as we understand them today---it's all about convincing people about things that might or might not be so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 22, 2016, 01:47:16 pm

Yo one of your grenade attacks killed an 8 y/o

swedan

why you do this to yourself

*EDIT
I'm reading what I missed in this thread
I regret life now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 23, 2016, 12:50:20 pm

The German government will discuss a new 'Civil Defense Plan' tomorrow, which is to prepare the nation for massive cyberattacks, terrorist attacks, or invasion by enemy forces.

In it, German citizens are encouraged to start hoarding food and water. The recommendations are to stock food for at least 10 days, and water for 5 days.
Theres also a paragraph included about reinstating draft service, when a NATO member is attacked.

The opposition accuses the government of scaremongering.

The government denies this is the case, and says the decision to update the plan stems from 2012 already.
The last time a similar plan was updated was after the cold war ended, in 1995. The government says that today's threats are no longer comparable to the threats faced back then, especially considering cyberterrorism, and that it is no more than logical to update.

The opposition critisizes also that the plan is called 'civil defense plan', instead of sticking to the old name, which was 'civil protection plan'. They say the new title reeks of warmongery.

If the government can agree with each other internally on the contents of the plan, it will likely be presented to the public during tomorrow's afternoon.
German media reports that already, people have been spotted hoarding food with overloaded shopping carts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 23, 2016, 01:20:15 pm

Better to have a plan. Never know when things will escalate and you'll need to send your civil defense panzer divisions into Belgium and Poland, as part of a preemptive strike on the global threat of ISIS cyberbullies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 25, 2016, 01:01:38 am

In Italy, the devestation of yesterday's earthquake is becoming more clear. So far, 247 dead have been pulled from under the rubble of collapsed villages, and over 400 wounded. Numbers are still expected to rise as rescue workers continue to search. For example, from a collapsed hotel in Amatrice, that housed 70 tourists at the time of the earthquake, only 7 people have been found so far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 07:08:17 pm

Quote from: Covenant on August 11, 2016, 11:46:16 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on August 11, 2016, 11:43:38 am

I think his point about Scotland may have been that they might want another referendum now that the main reason they stayed (that I know of) is gone.

The polls don't bear that out I'm afraid. (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/)

And Rolepgeek, what did you mean in your last post? I thought Erkki's comments about morality were thoughtful and well-written. What were you implying when you quoted them?

Well this thread has dried of bants

So I'm gonna make a serious reply to a very old post I missed

Most Scots are not in fact Sturgeon, and would rather not die for the EUrocats; they voted for the UK because they didn't want to dissolve the Union. Reason being a mix of shared history, devomax, and the fact that Scotland was incapable of surviving independent - what with the Scotnats plan being rely on oil. If they had got independence from the UK, they would have ended up subservient to an even further away, unaccountable and foreign bland bureaucracy where their votes counted for shit, and their economy would be utterly broken and they would currently have become bankrupt with the saudi oil dumps. Sturgeon is deliberately hiding the fact that many Scots voted to remain because they were told by Cameron's project fear, if they voted to leave the EU, then the UK would explode. A very convenient fact to ignore is that the Scots voted to leave the Common Market when England voted to stay, it is utterly delusional to think a party platform that campaigned on the sole basis that it would get its country into the EU was desperately trying to keep the United Kingdom in order to access the EU... It was already campaigning for.
And the 1,000,000 who voted to Leave, I wonder if they were tacvoting too. Fuck knows, but at this rate, it's all ogre anyways

So what we get is Londonistaners having to pay for Scots who get free education, free healthcare, unemployment benefits, transport and development, and also get to have their cake too, complaining that Londonistaners are eating their oil money, whilst Sturgeon is literally paid with Londonistaner money
When the Scottish economy is shocked, the United Kingdom absorbs the impact

The average Englishman has quite a sour deal in all this, but politically for those who support Britain, it is obviously not a desirable goal to have Britain explode. Thus everyone is in the situation where it's more effort than it's worth, which is just the sort of lacklustre British enthusiasm which becomes impossible to dislodge and ensures eternal status quo until we spin off into the fucking sun and vaporize

On the bright side all the politicians who have no humility have no more careers, now replaced by politicians that more resemble the pantheon of chaos
Tzeentch has taken the forefront with sorcerer May, the blood God has taken the backseat with Tony Skulls for the Peace Throne Blair having been defeated by May and her alliance with Nurglite champion of jolly cooperation Bojo, and I suppose across the pond Sweden is hard at work trying to summon Slaanesh to finally nuke western civilization

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Scotland's votes already count for shit.

Scotland also generates more tax income per head than the rest of the UK, though I will accept that's 'cause of the oil, and the oil price decline did mess that up a bit.

It would be nice if they could use the revenues to invest in other things. Alas, the purse strings are controlled elsewhere...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Scotland's votes already count for shit.

U wot

Scotland's votes are disproportionately powerful, they have their own parliament and they get to have a say in what affects Englanders but not them

Heck, if the Scotnat party had done a better job and Londonistaners not been so lazy, a very small number of Scots would have made 16 million more people lose the brexit run

Last general election it took just under 4 million votes to get 1 UKIP seat
300,000 votes per libdem seat
40,000 votes per Labour seat
34,000 votes per Tory seat
25,000 votes per scotnat seat

How the bloody hell is it possible to call the most valuable votes shite, literally the Kingmaker with the most powerful votes in every election

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Scotland also generates more tax income per head than the rest of the UK, though I will accept that's 'cause of the oil, and the oil price decline did mess that up a bit.

A bit? That's a bit of an understatement innit though lol

Quote

f Scotland had declared independence on 24 March – the day chosen by then SNP leader Alex Salmond before he lost the 2014 referendum campaign, its population would be facing an overall deficit of £2,850 per head in the 2016/17 financial year compared with £850 per head across the UK, the IFS said.

With the recent collapse in oil prices, its analysis showed that if Scotland’s geographical share of oil tax receipts was included, the black hole in its annual accounts would reach £12.2bn in 2020 and then to £12.8bn in 2021, some 6% of its GDP.

So obviously what happens? Do the Scots cut their public spending? Lol no, the English foot the bill. I don't think anyone would give a shit if the likes of Sturgeon wasn't then going on to say fuck the English, they're gits and all, what with all those taxes they're giving Scots :|
Seriously cheeky to say we're taking more when it's simple maths. You spend more than you make, it's your m8s who pay the toll

Quote

“I don’t believe Nicola Sturgeon wants to see a referendum again any more than I do,” he said. “The economic case two years ago was threadbare. It’s now shot to bits and there’s absolutely no denying it.

srsly (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/24/ifs-scotland-debts-three-times-greater-uk)

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

It would be nice if they could use the revenues to invest in other things.

Scots want to cut education, healthcare and police funding? Never seen that in Scottish parliament nor seen that from Scots in Westminster

What are these "other things" that Scots can't choose to fund? If they want their own fleet of nuclear submarines it will never be, that always has to be in unity with the UK

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Alas, the purse strings are controlled elsewhere...

You got evidence to back up conspiracies m8, cos I don't think Westminster would especially favour 5 million people over 60 + 5 million people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Scotland's votes already count for shit.

U wot

oh my goodness how wrong are you let me count the ways

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Heck, if the Scotnat party had done a better job and Londonistaners not been so lazy, a very small number of Scots would have made 16 million more people lose the brexit run

All the following stats 'til the economic bit are from the BBC results pages for the various things.

You would've required an extra 634,751 Scots to have voted Remain in order for that to have influenced the result to have the slimmest margin of 2 people, a result everyone would've accepted I imagine.

Doesn't sound like much, but it would've meant 85% of Scots would've voted Remain. When was the last time 85% of anyone in the UK on political matters agreed? Even had 100% of Scotland voted Remain, the majority would've been 767,142, which is a little over half of what the result was, so it would've been ~51/49 split.

It's a bullshit argument anyway. If half as many Scots had voted Yes in 2014, we wouldn't be having this talk. Don't see you saying that's a problem though amirite?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Scotland's votes are disproportionately powerful, they have their own parliament and they get to have a say in what affects Englanders but not them

Due to the quirks of the Barnett formula - which is funny since Westminster could literally decide tomorrow to say "fuck that shit" and it would be entirely legal - pretty much any change in spending in England is going to affect funding for every other UK nation. However indirectly, English matters are going to affect them.

Instead of being sensible and setting up a separate English parliament though - like the aforementioned Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish ones, which deal solely with matters in those nations - the Tories have decided the best way to deal with this issue is to make non-English MPs second-class by denying them access to matters which solely affect England in the British parliament. Fantastic.

all teuchters, micks and sheep-shaggers welcome

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Last general election it took just under 4 million votes to get 1 UKIP seat
300,000 votes per libdem seat
40,000 votes per Labour seat
34,000 votes per Tory seat
25,000 votes per scotnat seat

I like the way you set this out, failing to mention that the SNP only stood in 59 constituencies in Scotland - meaning they had access to an electorate of 4,094,784, of whom 71.1% voted, a little over 2.9m, of whom ~50% voted for the SNP - whereas UKIP stood in 624 seats, having access to... uh... more of the electorate.

But then that's not how the system works, is it? It's the results in the individual constituencies that matter. The Tories received 37% of the overall vote and received just over 50% of the seats, and a majority in parliament. They won 1 seat in Scotland. Kingmakers in their own fuckin' right there eh?

Then we could consider that Scotland has voted Labour every year since 1959 until the last GE in 2015. Their status as kingmaker meant there was an unprecedented 56 year long Labour reign, right? Oh wait, Labour were only ever in power when England voted for them. Right, sorry.

Let's look at things as a whole, though. There were 46,420,413 registered voters in the UK in 2015, for 650 parliament seats.

Scotland 9.07% of the seats, for their 8.8% share of the electorate, England has 82% of seats for their 83.59% of the electorate, Wales get 6.15% seats for their 4.9%, and N. Ireland 2.7% for 2.66%. Things seem to be alright in terms of proportion of votes.

English democratic will still outstrips that of the other three though. Still think Scotland is the kingmaker?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

How the bloody hell is it possible to call the most valuable votes shite, literally the Kingmaker with the most powerful votes in every election

In conclusion:

wtf r u smoking i want sum

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Scotland also generates more tax income per head than the rest of the UK, though I will accept that's 'cause of the oil, and the oil price decline did mess that up a bit.

A bit? That's a bit of an understatement innit though lol

Quote

f Scotland had declared independence on 24 March – the day chosen by then SNP leader Alex Salmond before he lost the 2014 referendum campaign, its population would be facing an overall deficit of £2,850 per head in the 2016/17 financial year compared with £850 per head across the UK, the IFS said.

With the recent collapse in oil prices, its analysis showed that if Scotland’s geographical share of oil tax receipts was included, the black hole in its annual accounts would reach £12.2bn in 2020 and then to £12.8bn in 2021, some 6% of its GDP.

So obviously what happens? Do the Scots cut their public spending? Lol no, the English foot the bill. I don't think anyone would give a shit if the likes of Sturgeon wasn't then going on to say fuck the English, they're gits and all, what with all those taxes they're giving Scots :|
Seriously cheeky to say we're taking more when it's simple maths. You spend more than you make, it's your m8s who pay the toll

Er... so does England. And N. Ireland. And Wales. And, if you'll excuse me, most of the effin' world.

What's your point? Scotland does it worse than the rUK?

The Tories were elected in 2010 when they said they were going to make massive cuts to gub'ment spending, while the SNP made no such promises, indeed quite the opposite (http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf), so you're comparing apples to oranges a wee bit there.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

It would be nice if they could use the revenues to invest in other things.

Scots want to cut education, healthcare and police funding? Never seen that in Scottish parliament nor seen that from Scots in Westminster

What are these "other things" that Scots can't choose to fund? If they want their own fleet of nuclear submarines it will never be, that always has to be in unity with the UK

wishful thinking leave me to muh fantasy

alternatively: link (http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-facts-about-scotlands-oil-and-independence/)

Scotland having access to that trillion squid would be quite beneficial to them in the long run, I imagine. Could invest it in anything they bloody wanted. Like not paying for those lovely nuclear subs in the Clyde.

Unfortunately folk shat it in 2014, so they can wave that goodbye.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2016, 08:22:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 29, 2016, 07:44:17 pm

Alas, the purse strings are controlled elsewhere...

You got evidence to back up conspiracies m8, cos I don't think Westminster would especially favour 5 million people over 60 + 5 million people

Thank you for so succinctly making my point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on August 31, 2016, 10:29:31 pm

Don't argue with the bot. It's not funny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on September 06, 2016, 05:26:48 am

Black Lives Matter protesters close London City Airport runway. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37283869)

Quote

Black Lives Matter UK said: "Whilst at London City Airport a small elite is able to fly, in 2016 alone 3,176 migrants are known to have died or gone missing in the Mediterranean.

"Black people are the first to die, not the first to fly, in this racist climate crisis.

"We note, however, that the UK is willing to charter special flights to remove black people from the country based on their immigration status."

It added: "This action was taken in order to highlight the UK's environmental impact on the lives of black people locally and globally.

"As the largest per capita contributor to global temperature change, and yet among the least vulnerable to its deadly effects, the UK leads in ensuring that our climate crisis is a racist crisis."

I see USA movements have already started to occupy post-Brexit Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 06, 2016, 06:03:24 am

I don't think climate change is very high on the list of things that adversely affect black people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on September 06, 2016, 06:09:59 am

Black Lives Energy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 06, 2016, 06:27:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 06, 2016, 06:03:24 am

I don't think climate change is very high on the list of things that adversely affect black people.

Actually, it is. The Sahel isn't exactly full of whites.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on September 06, 2016, 09:39:27 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 06, 2016, 06:27:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 06, 2016, 06:03:24 am

I don't think climate change is very high on the list of things that adversely affect black people.

Actually, it is. The Sahel isn't exactly full of whites.

Quite so.  That said, I'm not seeing the link between British airplanes and over-farming, over-grazing, or natural soil erosion in an land area over its carrying capacity.  Also, it's more a function of poverty, again; poor countries have fewer options to deal with climate change than rich countries, so they're disproportionately affected.  That's as true of Mauritania as it is Bangladesh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 06, 2016, 10:17:21 am

Well, yeah, BLM-UK sounds a lot like a movement in search of a cause, and they're just mish-mashing a bunch of stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 06, 2016, 01:49:07 pm

Hashtag without a cause?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 06, 2016, 01:53:58 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 06, 2016, 01:49:07 pm

Hashtag without a cause?

#withoutacause
#nopoint
#protestingforthefunofprotesting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 06, 2016, 01:59:29 pm

Here, we call that kind of person a 'born-free' - born after or near the end of apartheid. No clear 'the man' to stick it to, but all their role models and people they're told to look up to are struggle heroes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 07, 2016, 07:36:09 pm

Spoiler: deliberations for brits ps hector you'll enjoy this cos you're verifiably right on things (click to show/hide)

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

All the following stats 'til the economic bit are from the BBC results pages for the various things.

Link fam
Bbc does loadsa stats

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

You would've required an extra 634,751 Scots to have voted Remain in order for that to have influenced the result to have the slimmest margin of 2 people, a result everyone would've accepted I imagine.

You forgot that every single poll said Remain was gonna have an easy win because Scotland was gonna have a heavy margin the SNP failed to grasp and the dude votes lmao London demographic would actually bother to show up en masse, but didn't in reality because muh weather

Thus the easy victory turned into absolute carnage, Cameron sleep peasy

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

It's a bullshit argument anyway. If half as many Scots had voted Yes in 2014, we wouldn't be having this talk. Don't see you saying that's a problem though amirite?

I don't see what's bullshit or a problem about any of that

Scotland in the UK doesn't benefit individual Englanders or Londoners all that much, but politically the fiscal pricetag is more than worth it. I'm biased obv, I could scarcely say I'm British if half of Britain clay flew into the sun without us

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Due to the quirks of the Barnett formula - which is funny since Westminster could literally decide tomorrow to say "fuck that shit" and it would be entirely legal - pretty much any change in spending in England is going to affect funding for every other UK nation. However indirectly, English matters are going to affect them.

I've no problem with that, I've a problem with them having both advantages and complaining about it :P

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Instead of being sensible and setting up a separate English parliament though - like the aforementioned Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish ones, which deal solely with matters in those nations - the Tories have decided the best way to deal with this issue is to make non-English MPs second-class by denying them access to matters which solely affect England in the British parliament. Fantastic.

I think we can all be happy that the Osbornites have been removed by cheeky May

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

I like the way you set this out, failing to mention that the SNP only stood in 59 constituencies in Scotland - meaning they had access to an electorate of 4,094,784, of whom 71.1% voted, a little over 2.9m, of whom ~50% voted for the SNP - whereas UKIP stood in 624 seats, having access to... uh... more of the electorate.

The SNP could've chosen to stand in every seat across the UK, they didn't lol because there'd be no point, they appeal exclusively to Scottish nationalists by strategy

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

But then that's not how the system works, is it? It's the results in the individual constituencies that matter. The Tories received 37% of the overall vote and received just over 50% of the seats, and a majority in parliament. They won 1 seat in Scotland. Kingmakers in their own fuckin' right there eh?

Quite a surprising result considering how every poll said it was going to be neck and neck Labour-Tory till the end with SNP being kingmaker; Ed Miliband was just that overwhelmingly shit, and Osborne to his credit actually delivered the impossible

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Then we could consider that Scotland has voted Labour every year since 1959 until the last GE in 2015. Their status as kingmaker meant there was an unprecedented 56 year long Labour reign, right? Oh wait, Labour were only ever in power when England voted for them. Right, sorry.

1964 - UKexSco 10,932,947 to Tory and Unionist parties in England | 10,922,141 to Labour, translated to 273 seats Tory-Union and 273 seats Labour
W Scotland, 1,283,667 labour, 1,069,695 Tory&Unionist | +24 seats Tory and +44 seats Labour
Result: Scotland was decisive Kingmaker with just over 200k Scots swinging everything.

1966 - I realized tallying vote count and seat count would double the time needed to go through every election, so now only seat counts
UKexSco 230 Tory-Union | 318 Labour
Scotland adds net +26 Labour seats
Result: Scotland was not Kingmaker, adding to an already landslide Labour victory.

1970 - UKexSco 299 Tory | 243 Labour
Scotland adds net +19 Labour seats
Result: Scotland was not Kingmaker, dampening a landslide Tory victory.

Feb 1974 - UKexSco 275 Tory (Unionist parties withdraw support) | 261 Labour
Scotland adds net +20 Labour seats
Result: Scotland narrowly turns Tory victory into Labour victory, however the result is hung parliament.

Oct 1974 - UKexSco 260 Tory | 278 Labour
Scotland adds net +25 Labour seats
Result: Scotland allows Labour to form majority Parliament by 4.

1979 - UKexSco 319 Tory | 224 Labour
Scotland adds net +20 Labour seats
Result: landslide Tory victory, Scotland has little effect. <- So begins Ministerial service of Margaret Thatcher

1983 - UKexSco 376 Tory | 168 Labour
Scotland adds net +20 Labour seats
Result: Catastrophic defeat for Labour, Scotland has little effect. <- One of the most one sided electoral results in British history

1987 - UKexSco 385 Tory | 179 Labour
Scotland adds net +40 Labour seats
Result: Serious defeat for Labour, but the gap is narrowing. Anti-Tory sentiment reaches all time high under Thatcher due to deindustrialization, market liberalization and crackdown of union power.

1992 - UKexSco 325 Tory | 222 Labour | 11 Libdem
Scotland adds net +38 Labour seats, +9 Libdem +3 SNP
Result: Prepare your anuses for Blair, nevertheless the Tories still hold majority. Opinion polls all said Labour were expected to win, meaning that in all times always ignore polls.

1997 - UkexSco 165 Tory | 362 Labour | 36 Libdem
Scotland adds +56 Labour, +0 Tory, +10 Libdem, +6 SNP
Result: Absolutely devastating defeat for the Tories, marks the Labour ascendancy <- Champion of the Blood God begins ministration

2001 - UKexSco 165 Tory | 357 Labour | 42 Libdem
Scotland adds net +54 Labour, +10 Libdem, +5 SNP
Result: Tories still doing miserably under Blair, Scotland has little effect on landslide Labour victory

2005 - UKexSco 197 Tory | 315 Labour | 51 Libdem
Scotland adds net +39 Labour, +11 Libdem, +6 SNP
Result: Still landslide victory for Labour, notably though the Libdems begin clawing their way up

2010 - UKexSco 305 Tory | 217 Labour | 46 Libdem
Scotland adds net +40 Labour, +11 Libdem, +6 SNP
Result: Scotland handed a Labour-Libdem coalition victory, but the Libdems swallowed the pork pill and instead formed a coalition with Tories. Libdems would make further CRITICAL ERRORS which would kill their political clout for the forseeable future.

2015 - UKexSco 329 Tory | 231 Labour | 7 Libdem
Scotland adds +56 SNP, +1 Labour, +1 Tory, +1 Libdem
Result: The milipede destroys Labour in one fell swoop with his cheeky socialism. Labour party responds by attempting to cut off Union influence, that results in the Unions taking control of the party and selecting the uber socialist. Checkmate scrubs. SNP takes over Scotland, Scottish labour collapses. Without Scottish Labour, Labour becomes incapable of holding Tories to serious opposition.

2016 - EURO EBIN BANTS REFERENDUM
UKexSco&Lon
14,879,188 Leave | 12,216,531 Remain
2,662,657 net lead for Leave, crushing victory

Factoring in London
+ 750,287 net gain for Remain out of 3,776,751 valid votes cast. London devastatingly underperformed based upon its prediction, personally I was biting my nails as they read out the London boroughs - and then I realized, the dude weed vote doesn't actually vote. Students btfo

Factoring in Scotland
+ 642,869 net gain for Remain out of 2,679,513 valid votes cast. Final result: Decisive victory for Leave, leaving no room for challenge.

It is rather notable that during this election day, storms hit London and Scotland whilst the rest of the UK was sunny. God willed Leave confirmed (my favourite theory is that the Russians deployed a weather machine to tank the Remain voters' morale).
One of the things that is pretty neat is that now that the campaigning is over, we get a lot of the news that wasn't allowed to disseminate because it would've hurt the remain campaign. My favourite is that in June, Labour canvassers were beginning to worry that based off of their impression on the ground level, a large number of their voters were switching to leave. They didn't tell anyone obviously because to allow it to go public could be a self-fulfilling prophecy (humans are weird), but it does help to explain why all the polls predicted a safe Remain lead and even until the end predicted narrow Remain victory - heads in the sand. I love that polls were giving 55-37 lead to Remain, ahahahahaha

Result: Dude weed lmao vote and 1 million Scots voting to Leave stopped Londonistan and Scotland from tipping the scales
Had London increased their share of existing votes by 10% that would've been a, 1,510,701 net from London and with Scotland it's even funnier the disparate nature of what is reported and what is. 2015 Scotland gives 2,815,355 votes to SNP (pro-Remain), Labour (pro-Remain) Tories (pro-Remain) and Libdem (pro-Remain), but Scotland provided only the net +640,000 Remain.

Overall though, counting the red, blue and yellow, that's 11 cases where Scotland had little effect. 6 of the red cases have a Scottish majority opposing the victorious party, 5 of the red cases have a Scottish majority supporting the victorious party. 3 blue cases where Scotland swung the tings, one yellow where they would've were it not for INFINITE FRACTAL SAD CLEGGS (thus my issue with Oxbridge career politicians - no one likes them).
8 where they got what they wanted, 7 they didn't, but looking at the numbers; their propensity to be Kingmaker is directly proportional to the competence of the British left wing to be able to stage opposition to the Tories. Under charismatic champions like Blair, there is simply no question, under the Milipede, there is no chance. Competence escapes Labour for quite some time, so allow me to concede I am wrong - Scotland is not Kingmaker under normal incompetent circumstances, and opinion pollers who suggested that they were just like sexy politics xD

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Let's look at things as a whole, though. There were 46,420,413 registered voters in the UK in 2015, for 650 parliament seats.
Scotland 9.07% of the seats, for their 8.8% share of the electorate, England has 82% of seats for their 83.59% of the electorate, Wales get 6.15% seats for their 4.9%, and N. Ireland 2.7% for 2.66%. Things seem to be alright in terms of proportion of votes.
English democratic will still outstrips that of the other three though. Still think Scotland is the kingmaker?

Wales - 40 seats, 2,270,272 electorate = 56,756 per seat
Scotland - 59 seats, 3,987,112 electorate = 67,578 per seat
Northern Ireland - 18 seats, 1,260,955 electorate = 70,053 per seat
England w/o Greater London - 460 seats, 33,556,894 electorate = 72,949 per seat
Greater London - 73 seats, 5,424,768 electorate = 74,311 per seat

Yeah on review it seems all right, Wales is a bit imba but a Scot being worth 110% more than a Londoner is in accordance with reality (I'll leave it up to you to guess if I'm joking)!

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

wtf r u smoking i want sum

Smoking drugs is immoral and haram

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Er... so does England. And N. Ireland. And Wales. And, if you'll excuse me, most of the effin' world.
What's your point? Scotland does it worse than the rUK?

Nah, that the SNP's plan to make the SNP into an oil economy has a serious flaw: Scotland's economy is too small to absorb the shock of placing their entire economy in the hands of one thing, it happened with Panama and it would've happened again if the SNP's plan succeeded

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

The Tories were elected in 2010 when they said they were going to make massive cuts to gub'ment spending, while the SNP made no such promises, indeed quite the opposite (http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf), so you're comparing apples to oranges a wee bit there.

SNP spending muh shekels to pay for their public spending fam
It's not a comparison it's a direct line of supply; wouldn't care if the SNP weren't so salty about taking muh shekels :P

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

wishful thinking leave me to muh fantasy
alternatively: link (http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-facts-about-scotlands-oil-and-independence/)

If I'd linked to UKIP website in the Indyref none of the Euros would've given me any credence
Sturgeon's face is right on that link :P
Although the creation of an oil wealth fund is fucking sexy and should be adopted by all parties who aren't communists

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Scotland having access to that trillion squid would be quite beneficial to them in the long run, I imagine.

Where's this trillion quid? Dang, UK is sorted for life

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Could invest it in anything they bloody wanted. Like not paying for those lovely nuclear subs in the Clyde.

A third of all UK taxes are paid for by London, generating more tax revenue than the next 36 largest cities combined. (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/07/london-top-taxpaying-city-uk-report) Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad carrying here, that means having a deterrent towards being blown up via nuclear holocaust costs London 23 days of taxes for a complete renewal, employing 5,000 in Barrow-in Furness Boatyard in addition to 3,500 RN personnel, 1,700 contractors and 1,600 civilian employees in Clyde. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32236184)
Scotland doesn't pay for them, London does

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Unfortunately folk shat it in 2014, so they can wave that goodbye.

And Gordon Brown sold my gold shekels, yet Scotland keeps voting for leftists too

Quote from: hector13 on August 30, 2016, 01:16:41 am

Thank you for so succinctly making my point.

Sweet, so we both agree on much

Quote from: Ukrainian Ranger on April 24, 2016, 07:25:41 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2016, 05:35:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2016, 02:18:13 pm

(in muslim culture, hitting someone with a shoe is the worst insult you can make. That, and shoe rhymes with Haiku)

Let me tell you about Cossacks (http://i.imgur.com/xAaoqwq.jpg)

Spoiler: Cossacks are busy writing insults to Putin. Turks can wait (click to show/hide)

(http://kampot.org.ua/uploads/posts/1409666077_kozaku.jpg)

Spoiler: I've been too happy to shitpost so have more cossacks in meantime (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/DaaRAXu.jpg)

Quote from: Sergarr on September 06, 2016, 05:26:48 am

I see USA movements have already started to occupy post-Brexit Britain.

I was laughing my kekles off at these muppets, no one in London gets them. LONDON, not just the UK, even Londonians think they're stupid. Prolly starting from that moment when some US police officer kills some armed criminal and in response they decide to stab a British police officer in the UK...?

Brit police are the nicest in the world to boot :|
I do love the joke, Britain invented the modern police, China invented the secret police

Quote from: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on August 31, 2016, 10:29:31 pm

Don't argue with the bot. It's not funny.

Oi m8 you buy kitchen yes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related news thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 08, 2016, 09:58:09 am

Quote from: Covenant on September 08, 2016, 03:50:54 am

Jesus christ, that colour. No wonder the Lib Dems are doing so terribly. We'd all go blind if they started to make a comeback.

Spoiler: I'm not hearing enough praising (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/PWTjwS1.png)

Quote from: Covenant on September 08, 2016, 03:50:54 am

Spoiler: I'll say (click to show/hide)

For all your talk about Red Ed, I think you're brushing aside (if only by omission) how unpopular Corbyn is among the general public. If Ed put the Labour Party in the coffin, Jez is the one who nailed that coffin shut and threw it in the Thames.
Which is funny, really - a lot of Corbyn's policies would be very popular. Nationalisation of the railways, increased minimum wage, requiring employees to be on the board of stock-exchange companies; people eat that shit up. It's just that his more bombastic policies/statements of opinion (Falklands, nukes, immigration) are so, so unpopular, and his personal manner so unpleasant, that he stands absolutely no chance of ever getting in, despite all the starry-eyed Bec De Corbynistas rushing down to sign up for the Labour party after school lets out at 3pm.
Maybe this will be my Nate Bronze moment and in May 2020 I'll be having to hold my hands up as I watch Jezza step into Number 10, but I'll take my chances.

You gotta have sympathy for Corbyn cos he's the closest UK analogue to Trump we've got

Everyone politician within his party and a good number without fought to stop him, are still fighting to stop him, have still failed to stop him, and he's crashing this system with no survivors

Quote from: Covenant on September 08, 2016, 03:50:54 am

Particularly considering the ridiculous shit they have to put up with. The people currently moaning about the police using spitting hoods on suspects have never had to actually arrest anyone, or clean up the back of a police van twice a week after some drunken lout has inevitably pissed/shat all over it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh no, get this, the officer wasn't just stabbed cos of what happened in Murrica, the officer was stabbed because they tried taking some lad's rave machine

Quote

The Metropolitan Police says some of its officers were attacked when they tried to "deal" with a sound system which had been set up.

Total bellends

Quote

A breakaway group stormed a nearby branch of McDonald’s, causing terrified staff to flee downstairs as dozens of teenagers leapt over counters to clear the racks of food.

FREE SHIT

Quote

Riot vans blocked off Oxford Street to prevent the crowd from spilling into the world-famous shopping district.

Rofl, priorities

Quote

Two officers were rushed to hospital during the melee, one with stab wounds the other suffering head injuries after being struck by a bottle.

Sometimes I wonder how this shit isn't some false flagging intended to make arming our police palatable, but reading the twitter posts of the ravers and seeing their conduct on video was rather illustrating. (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/hyde-park-turned-into-warzone-when-youths-chanting-black-lives-matter-clash-with-police-after-water-a3299731.html)
Also lol

Quote

“It was really intense and there were groups shouting ‘Black lives matter’ and things like that. It seemed like a rebound from what is happening in America. Police pushed them out of the park but they all gathered under Marble Arch.”

I actually looked up whether our police were gonna get armed, and turns out yeah 600 police are gonna get armed, though in response to yurop's isis fanclubs more than anything

Spoiler: there'll be less of this (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/Es0a8sm.jpg)

Spoiler: more of this (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/zWeJi1o.jpg)

Quote from: Covenant on September 08, 2016, 03:50:54 am

Why do Cossacks always look like pirates, despite a total lack of anything nautical?

Perhaps it's the happy laughing faces.

DO WHAT YOU WANT COS A PIRATE COSSACK IS FREE

Rather grueling to read of how they got bolshevikd though
Damn communists ruin everything awesome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on September 08, 2016, 11:34:17 am

Quote

Why do Cossacks always look like pirates, despite a total lack of anything nautical?

Tell that to Ottomans. Cossacks were damn good pirates in the Black Sea and enjoyed doing raids on Ottoman coastal cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 08, 2016, 04:17:28 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/l4YANB3.png)

Corbyn rekt Owen Smith
Round two gonna be Corbyn vs May
Also lol no wonder corby gets so much flak for israel, he can't seem to get a single picture taken without islam floating above his shoulder

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 09, 2016, 02:14:13 am

The French police had to use violence in the arrest of 3 women linked to the car filled with gas canisters that was found in Paris a few days ago.
The women, who were already on the radar of intelligence services because of radicalization, attacked the police. One police officer was stabbed, after whih the police opened fire, wounding one of the women, after which they could be arrested.

Last sunday night, a pub owner warned the police about an abandoned car without license plates that was standing at a no parking zone with flashing lights, 5 gas canisters in the back seat, and arab documents on the dashboards.
However, no detonation mechanism has been found. Police spokesmen say they think that it was a dry training run, practicing for an actual attack.

The car led the police to three women aged 39, 23 and 19. The car was owned by the youngest woman's parents. The three were on the radar for radicalization, and 'planning something violent'. A heavy manhunt resulted in the police tracking the woman down to Boussy-Saint-Antoine, a small village near Paris.
When approached by the police, one of the women drew a knife and stabbed a police officer in the shoulder, after which she was shot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 09, 2016, 07:21:07 am

The French ministry of Internal Affairs reports that interrogation has revealed that the 3 women were part of a group that intended to attack gare de Lyon, one of Paris' larger train stations.

The youngest had written a letter swearing allegiance to IS, and had intended to travel to Syria after the attack. All train stations have been placed on high alert, but it looks like this one was thwarted, as it seems the attack was planned to be carried out yesterday (thursday).

In total, 7 people were arrested in the case. Apart from the 3 women, two couples aged 34 and 29, and 27 and 26 were arrested on thursday. The two arrested men are brothers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 11, 2016, 08:58:23 am

On that note, I was rather surprised to find the front cover of the spectator was a swedish flag on a hand grenade, simply titled 'how not to welcome refugees'

Tfw your shitposting is 3 current years ahead of msm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 06:31:45 am

With Britain out, France and Germany are announcing plan for increased defense cooperation (https://euobserver.com/foreign/135022). Mostly a common headquarter for join EU operation (instead of the rotation HQ used now), better pooling of support assets such as strategic airlift capabilities and join procurement of some stuff like cargo planes and drone. Good step overall, but it'll be interesting to see if and how it is accepted: it kinda overlap with some existing NATO structure (SAC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Airlift_Capability) comes to mind.) Plans for a EU border guard are also in the work.

It's funny because I was just reading a friend's master thesis about Belgian diplomacy during the building of the Union in 1958-1963, and a big fear of Belgium and the Netherlands was an hegemonic Franco-German duo that would undermine NATO if defense discussion were to take place between the Six. Getting the UK within the European framework was seen by the Low Countries as a way to counteract the Franco-German and make sure Europe wouldn't concurrence NATO (The Dutch position was essentially "Either you let the UK in or you let us create EU-wide institution so we don't end up as French protectorate".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 12, 2016, 06:34:42 am

Sweet.

Also: Update your sig, man. It's kinda dated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 06:35:32 am

Yep, yep. Economically, the Netherlands and Belgium will feel the Brexit the most of all EU countries as well, because strong trade ties and history. Unless ofcourse all banks move from London to Amsterdam and Scotland joins Belgium.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 06:38:51 am

Yup. Still, it's really fun how history kinda repeat itself half a century later. The Dutch are saying they don't think it's time to integrate defense, while the Belgian will go with it, just as P-H Spaak used to serve as an in-between between Luns and De Gaulle.

Overall, I think it make sense though. Integrating the strategic, intelligence and support part of the armed force will significantly increase their efficiencies, without having to deal with the political headache of preventing the French from blowing up Africans (or of forcing the Swedes to blow Africans to please the French).


Edit: Nonsense, my sig is fine! The fact that mid-august is long past doesn't change the fact that I was temp-banned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 06:40:15 am

Meanwhile, in Dutch cities, mayors are protesting and demanding more refugees, so they won't need to see the refugee centers they managed to convince angry mobs to not set on fire, with blood, sweat and tears, be shut down by authorities for redundancy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 06:40:54 am

Why don't you lease them to Belgium for our prisoners?  :P

Edit: Talking to my friends whose thesis I was harping about: "Well, the Dutch are always against everything, that's who they are". I'm afraid he's turning Dutchophobe to please his fleming in-laws. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 06:44:35 am

Haha yeah. Prisoner accomodation is becoming a Dutch specialty, or so it seems. I think our prisons now house Swedes and Belgians, maybe Norwegians too. Legal human trafficking, it's almost like being back in the old colonial days.

EDIT: it's Norwegians, not Swedes. Sweden has low prison popultations like us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 06:46:08 am

Didn't you stop with the Belgians?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 06:50:15 am

Oh, you're right. The Belgian government decided to stop leasing Dutch cells. The last Belgian inmates are expeced to be returned to Belgium in december 2016. Didn't know that ended. Isn't overcrowding still a problem in Belgian prisons?

Could be it's a money issue. Dutch prisoners are the most expensive prisoners of all EU countries. Think they cost about 250 euro per day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 07:03:27 am

The original deal was for three years, not sure why they didn't. I think it's a mixture of the high cost of renting Dutch prison space, and the fact that we've been building new prisons ourselves so that the need is less as capacity increase, but it's surprisingly hard to find info on this.

Edit: apparently they did manage to reduce overpopulation a fair bit, we now have "only" 10% more prisoners than we have bed (although some prisons still are overpopulated). They did it in large part by shifting mentally ill patients to proper institutions.

There is also a relatively ambitious program of prison construction underway, including a mega prison of 1200 places at Haren (To compare, total prisoners population in Belgium in about 11.000). Looking at new construction alone, I've seen at least 4 new jails totally over 1500 places since 2014 (Some of that capacity will be used to host prisoners while older prisons are being renovated).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 12, 2016, 07:13:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 06:31:45 am

It's funny because I was just reading a friend's master thesis about Belgian diplomacy during the building of the Union in 1958-1963, and a big fear of Belgium and the Netherlands was an hegemonic Franco-German duo that would undermine NATO if defense discussion were to take place between the Six. Getting the UK within the European framework was seen by the Low Countries as a way to counteract the Franco-German and make sure Europe wouldn't concurrence NATO (The Dutch position was essentially "Either you let the UK in or you let us create EU-wide institution so we don't end up as French protectorate".

Problem with that framework is that the UK foreign office went from wanting to enlargen the European Union so as to halt integration, to wanting to enlargen the European Union and hasten integration. Dutch attempts to retard European integration were ignored by the European Union, and Belgium doesn't ever do anything on its own. Thus all European Nations would be defeated by being played against themselves, whereas now the UK will not be used as a door stopper and the Netherlands is free to choose whichever way it wishes to go

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 07:45:19 am

I had trouble parsing this stuff. When did the switch occurs, according to you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 08:53:28 am

I thought I'd contribute, for once. You know that grenade attack in Sweden? Well, strap in.

Brief summary; it's part of a gangland conflict in port city of Gothenburg. Last spring, one gang burst into a pub in council estate land with an assault rifle and killed a rival gang leader, one bystander and injured eight others (several permanently). The grenade attack was one of several retaliation gestures. It's part of a much longer conflict in the city, between different gangs, in this case local street gangs. The suburb in question (Biskopsgården) has been more or less divided between two groups, north and south. They're the ones up in arms in this particular case, although there are other gangland conflicts going on across the city. Shootings between them are fairly common. There might be an ethnic/tribal element in this particular conflict, as several of the suspects in the pub shooting were Somalian. The word on the street is that there is, but I can't really say what's what in that question.

The child, poor Yusuf, 8, was in Gothenburg on holiday, and his family rented the flat. One of the suspects for the pub shooting (currently undergoing second rounds in the trials, I believe) was listed at the flat. He is the second child to be killed in the gang conflicts. Luna, age 4, was killed last summer. The car she was in had been fitted with a car bomb, meant for another passenger.
Neither was the intended target, but bystanders are not something the gangs seem to give one shit about. Of course, the current crisis in the Swedish police doesn't help. Or the hopeless integration situation. Or the immigration crisis. Or the big, knotty mess of ideals, politics, prestige, pride, stubborness, zeal and shouting that the political situation has gotten in to. Or the islamic movement picking up speed. Or the counter-movements, or the awful state of low-income suburbia that spawned this mess.

I can reveal that this is the genuine Sweden Experience^TM at the moment:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/911/435/8ad)

I like my country, but it's difficult to not feel faintly ashamed sometimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 08:57:47 am

Quote from: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 08:53:28 am

I like my country, but it's difficult to not feel faintly ashamed sometimes.

Hey, that's alright, we all get through there. I mean, all countries got shit going on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 09:02:42 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 08:57:47 am

Quote from: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 08:53:28 am

I like my country, but it's difficult to not feel faintly ashamed sometimes.

Hey, that's alright, we all get through there. I mean, all countries got shit going on.

Well, true. Every country that exists does so because it made it through some proper shit at several points. Keep calm and drink vodka carry on, I suppose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 09:12:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

Well, true that, too. Although the Russians are making vague motions at trying, that is more or less a nostalgia trip at this point. Fish swim, grass grow and the Russian is eyeing up that Baltic coastline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 12, 2016, 01:05:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

Best reason to re-introduce the GDR: Finally Germans too can be afraid of being invaded by Germany!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 01:16:38 pm

Well, AfD is on the rise.

If anyone had predicted 25 years ago that a populist nationalist party would get a foothold in Germany ever again, they would have been locked in an insane asylum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:06:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

I highly doubt you know enough to comment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 12, 2016, 02:09:33 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 01:16:38 pm

If anyone had predicted 25 years ago that a populist nationalist party would get a foothold in Germany ever again, they would have been locked in an insane asylum.

I dunno. There were in the past the Schill Party and the Republicans, so it's not entirely unprecedented. It's just that we used to believe there was some magical national political immune system that made stuff like that go away within a couple months...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 02:21:18 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:06:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

I highly doubt you know enough to comment.

Tell me about how Sweden is in a state of war with foreign armies grabbing large segment of the population to send them to death camps.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:42:12 pm

Is that the only requirements of "proper shit" in your mind?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on September 12, 2016, 02:54:20 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 12, 2016, 02:09:33 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 12, 2016, 01:16:38 pm

If anyone had predicted 25 years ago that a populist nationalist party would get a foothold in Germany ever again, they would have been locked in an insane asylum.

I dunno. There were in the past the Schill Party and the Republicans, so it's not entirely unprecedented. It's just that we used to believe there was some magical national political immune system that made stuff like that go away within a couple months...

The CIA?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 12, 2016, 02:58:17 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 02:21:18 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:06:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

I highly doubt you know enough to comment.

Tell me about how Sweden is in a state of war with foreign armies grabbing large segment of the population to send them to death camps.

Weeeell, you know the Minions? They are replacing the populace as we speak, although less overt, screamy death camp and more careful switch-and-replace, one by one. It's a well guarded secret, and I fear I shall be next, now that they know that I know. The yellow and blue combo is not a co-incidence, I tell you, that is by design. Something, at some point, went hideously wrong. Laboratory accident, phamaceutical trials derailed, something. And they're here. And they're coming for us. Coming to become us. The massive media presence is just the start.

Here's a picture of one of their secret assimilation squads. Judging by the window latches, I fear they might have reached the Americas by now...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/013/867/420.jpg)

They are weak to fire, and they can be avoided by regularly changing the name on your mailbox. Perhaps not forever, but we might have a fighting chance... We all survived the Smurf infestation. It can be done again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on September 12, 2016, 04:58:36 pm

You seem to ignore much more dangerous invasion of pokemons

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 13, 2016, 12:25:42 am

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:42:12 pm

Is that the only requirements of "proper shit" in your mind?

It's not, but I just wanted to put things in context. It's like my own home country: terrorist plots are becoming semi-regular events, our system of government looks like the result of a bet between two drunk political scientist, our consititution has been turned into sausage, our jails are so overcrowded we are renting a dutch jail to fit our extra prisoners and our government policy of shifting taxation from companies to alcohol means that our (excellent) beers are at least twice as expensive as across the border.

But still, by international standard, we have it pretty good, probablt not above a dozen country I'd consider better to live in. And certainly miles above the live in my grandma's childhood, when she lived in a basement to escape bombers and at to chase rats all day long to keep her food. (Although my family fortune's quickly re-established itself after the war. In 46 it was already able to flout its wealth by peeling its potatoes. My grandma's friends coming on playdates would ask if they could take the peelings home).

So yeah, I don't think that really constitute "proper shit", either by historical or world standard. Doesn't mean it's not shit, and shouldn't be improved, but certainly not enough to give up in despair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2016, 01:36:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2016, 02:06:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 12, 2016, 09:07:29 am

What you're going through doesn't even qualify as proper shit methink. You should get invaded by the Germans from time to time, it helps relativize. :p

I highly doubt you know enough to comment.

Sheb's contextualization reminds me of this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/HHasf5N.png)

Also child poverty is increasingly the norm in Germany (https://www.euractiv.com/section/social-europe-jobs/news/child-poverty-in-germany-increasingly-becomes-the-norm/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 14, 2016, 01:44:11 pm

Hey, to be fair plenty of stuff are going well for Sweden. Economy growing at 3%, low unemployment, still annoyingly high on all those quality-of-everything rankings. So yeah, I don't really see Sweden as "in proper shit" yet.

Re:Germany, it's kinda awe-inspiring that there is still such a gap between East and West, a generation after reunification.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on September 14, 2016, 01:47:57 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 14, 2016, 01:44:11 pm

Re:Germany, it's kinda awe-inspiring that there is still such a gap between East and West, a generation after reunification.

Socialism is one hell of a drug. It clearly wrecks people, yet there are still so many wanting to have it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2016, 01:54:37 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 14, 2016, 01:44:11 pm

Hey, to be fair plenty of stuff are going well for Sweden. Economy growing at 3%, low unemployment, still annoyingly high on all those quality-of-everything rankings. So yeah, I don't really see Sweden as "in proper shit" yet.

Quote

Sweden’s economy has benefited from unprecedented stimulus from the central bank, which has bought government bonds and cut interest rates below zero to revive inflation. Meanwhile, the government has raised spending to deal with record numbers of asylum seekers. While Sweden can claim to be a European success stories, with one of the region’s highest economic growth rates, its boom now looks set to fade.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-29/swedish-growth-peters-out-as-second-quarter-gdp-misses-estimates

Sweden sold itself for money it never received
Best of luck

Quote from: Sergarr on September 14, 2016, 01:47:57 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 14, 2016, 01:44:11 pm

Re:Germany, it's kinda awe-inspiring that there is still such a gap between East and West, a generation after reunification.

Socialism is one hell of a drug. It clearly wrecks people, yet there are still so many wanting to have it.

Free shit is a very marketable slogan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 14, 2016, 01:56:58 pm

Monetary policy is ultra-loose pretty much everywhere, and the Swedish budget deficit is 0.4% of PIB according to my paper copy of the Economist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

I have to say that I find it more than a little funny that we're basing big predictions about long-term economic growth on 3-month periods not living up to expectations.

Short-term thinking is the best sort of thinking, as everyone knows

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2016, 02:17:56 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

I have to say that I find it more than a little funny that we're basing big predictions about long-term economic growth on 3-month periods not living up to expectations.

Short-term thinking is the best sort of thinking, as everyone knows

Exactly, yuro response to demographics is the best short term thinking

Keep making bombs cos it's the kids of the future who'll get fucked the most lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 03:02:24 pm

WARNING: RAMBLING, PHILOSOPHY, AND OPINIONMONGERING AHEAD

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2016, 02:17:56 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

I have to say that I find it more than a little funny that we're basing big predictions about long-term economic growth on 3-month periods not living up to expectations.

Short-term thinking is the best sort of thinking, as everyone knows

Exactly, yuro response to demographics is the best short term thinking

Keep making bombs cos it's the kids of the future who'll get fucked the most lol

To be honest, I don't see immigration as a solution to demographic transition, but I also don't see it as a real problem unless it actually causes overload. Like, I guess it depends on what you see the issue as being with fewer young folks, whether you see it as being bad in and of itself because the country/ethno-nation-state/culture-language group is decling, or whether you see it as bad primarily because our economic and government support structures are designed around continuous growth and can't support elderly populations without young taxpayers (I'm absolutely certain there's enough money to go around and a lot of it happens to be located in the upper echelons of society, mind you).

It definitely seems to me like positing immigration as a solution to declining fertility rates is missing the point/not really viable long-term for three reasons, essentially.
 A. Demographic transition comes for all, and as underdeveloped countries develop, their fertility rates will fall and have been falling, so all you're doing is redistributing population, essentially, without necessarily fixing the core problem (if one views it as such, and not everyone does; anti-natalism is an...odd...philosophy, but it exists, and then overpopulation is sortof a concern)
 B. If the best and brightest, or simply most able or what-have you, are emigrating from their native countries to rich countries in search of opportunity, that's basically evaporative cooling of those populations, given how much of ability is genetic, and the fact that the environment is almost by definition not great in underdeveloped nations. Which means they'll remain less developed longer because the people who would be pushing them to modernity are all leaving.
 On a similar note, though one I'm even less certain of (as it could just be luck, not ability, deciding which people can emigrate, for that first bit), from what I am given to understand, 'pressure valves' in organic/biologically based phenomena, tend to be overall not great. So basically from what I remember in a lot of countries the sheer amount of kids people end up having is difficult to support, which makes it difficult to get out of poverty, which makes it difficult not to have kids, and so on in a self-sustaining bad times. Now, I'm not certain whether having an outlet for that extra population is a good thing or not, since you're usually getting adults, not kids, so it's not actually helping anyone with that issue, at least, though more resources overall may be available as a result for those remaining, but it also might just prolong the issue by keeping it stable/from being forced to develop. This is basically wild speculation, though.
 C. This feels like the hardest to explain bit...so, a country isn't quite just the people who technically are citizens of it. It is at least that, certainly, but it seems to me sometimes like people have this idea that potential citizens and existing citizens are the same thing, if that makes sense. But immigration solves the technicalities of the problem, the symptoms, without addressing the core or the root of it. The issue isn't 'we have fewer people than we want, so add more people', after all. Again, there's nothing particularly wrong with immigration, it's just...the reason we consider it a problem is that it affects the people who live in the country. Not because our statistic isn't as high as it could be. Bringing in people who didn't used to live in the country as a solution seems like one of those solutions like...I'm trying to find a good analogy. It's optimizing for the wrong variable. It's missing the reason we dislike it. The best thing I can maybe think of is if you're trying to help someone feel better when they're ill or depressed or something, and they see that you're worried about them so they just stop talking about it around you. They've solved the surface issue of you being worried about them, but you didn't want them to stop telling you, you wanted them to recover/be well.

I mean, obvious solution is to make it less of a burden to have children, which is an economic issue concerning graduate and just graduated-age adults. Also to not put societal expectations on people in either direction; don't have a pressure to ignore family for career (men are affected more than women by taking paternity leave and time off for children(my guess why is that women are the ones expected to do it, so if a man does it it's weirder to people), don't keep people out of the workplace if they don't want to be. More options for people; we can learn from the past without simply repeating it. Two-income households aren't much richer than single-income households were, if at all, thanks to the various costs for having children without someone continuously taking care of them and housework and another car and competition for housing in good neighborhoods, but they're much more fiscally unstable because they don't have the same flexibility that being able to put another person to work without needing to gives you, so it's harder to react to financial difficulties effectively without people burning out or getting so stressed that it cascades. Doesn't mean we should kick people out of workforce, just means we should take note of the fact that economic growth is still fairly good (especially if you take into account aging populations) while technological redundancy affects more and more people, and use it advantageously rather than screaming and crying about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on September 15, 2016, 02:46:55 am

You seem very optimistic about underdeveloped countries developing rate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on September 15, 2016, 03:47:27 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 03:02:24 pm

WARNING: RAMBLING, PHILOSOPHY, AND OPINIONMONGERING AHEAD

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2016, 02:17:56 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 14, 2016, 02:07:25 pm

I have to say that I find it more than a little funny that we're basing big predictions about long-term economic growth on 3-month periods not living up to expectations.

Short-term thinking is the best sort of thinking, as everyone knows

Exactly, yuro response to demographics is the best short term thinking

Keep making bombs cos it's the kids of the future who'll get fucked the most lol

To be honest, I don't see immigration as a solution to demographic transition, but I also don't see it as a real problem unless it actually causes overload. Like, I guess it depends on what you see the issue as being with fewer young folks, whether you see it as being bad in and of itself because the country/ethno-nation-state/culture-language group is decling, or whether you see it as bad primarily because our economic and government support structures are designed around continuous growth and can't support elderly populations without young taxpayers (I'm absolutely certain there's enough money to go around and a lot of it happens to be located in the upper echelons of society, mind you).

It definitely seems to me like positing immigration as a solution to declining fertility rates is missing the point/not really viable long-term for three reasons, essentially.
 A. Demographic transition comes for all, and as underdeveloped countries develop, their fertility rates will fall and have been falling, so all you're doing is redistributing population, essentially, without necessarily fixing the core problem (if one views it as such, and not everyone does; anti-natalism is an...odd...philosophy, but it exists, and then overpopulation is sortof a concern)
B. If the best and brightest, or simply most able or what-have you, are emigrating from their native countries to rich countries in search of opportunity, that's basically evaporative cooling of those populations, given how much of ability is genetic, and the fact that the environment is almost by definition not great in underdeveloped nations. Which means they'll remain less developed longer because the people who would be pushing them to modernity are all leaving.
 On a similar note, though one I'm even less certain of (as it could just be luck, not ability, deciding which people can emigrate, for that first bit), from what I am given to understand, 'pressure valves' in organic/biologically based phenomena, tend to be overall not great. So basically from what I remember in a lot of countries the sheer amount of kids people end up having is difficult to support, which makes it difficult to get out of poverty, which makes it difficult not to have kids, and so on in a self-sustaining bad times. Now, I'm not certain whether having an outlet for that extra population is a good thing or not, since you're usually getting adults, not kids, so it's not actually helping anyone with that issue, at least, though more resources overall may be available as a result for those remaining, but it also might just prolong the issue by keeping it stable/from being forced to develop. This is basically wild speculation, though.
 C. This feels like the hardest to explain bit...so, a country isn't quite just the people who technically are citizens of it. It is at least that, certainly, but it seems to me sometimes like people have this idea that potential citizens and existing citizens are the same thing, if that makes sense. But immigration solves the technicalities of the problem, the symptoms, without addressing the core or the root of it. The issue isn't 'we have fewer people than we want, so add more people', after all. Again, there's nothing particularly wrong with immigration, it's just...the reason we consider it a problem is that it affects the people who live in the country. Not because our statistic isn't as high as it could be. Bringing in people who didn't used to live in the country as a solution seems like one of those solutions like...I'm trying to find a good analogy. It's optimizing for the wrong variable. It's missing the reason we dislike it. The best thing I can maybe think of is if you're trying to help someone feel better when they're ill or depressed or something, and they see that you're worried about them so they just stop talking about it around you. They've solved the surface issue of you being worried about them, but you didn't want them to stop telling you, you wanted them to recover/be well.

I mean, obvious solution is to make it less of a burden to have children, which is an economic issue concerning graduate and just graduated-age adults. Also to not put societal expectations on people in either direction; don't have a pressure to ignore family for career (men are affected more than women by taking paternity leave and time off for children(my guess why is that women are the ones expected to do it, so if a man does it it's weirder to people), don't keep people out of the workplace if they don't want to be. More options for people; we can learn from the past without simply repeating it. Two-income households aren't much richer than single-income households were, if at all, thanks to the various costs for having children without someone continuously taking care of them and housework and another car and competition for housing in good neighborhoods, but they're much more fiscally unstable because they don't have the same flexibility that being able to put another person to work without needing to gives you, so it's harder to react to financial difficulties effectively without people burning out or getting so stressed that it cascades. Doesn't mean we should kick people out of workforce, just means we should take note of the fact that economic growth is still fairly good (especially if you take into account aging populations) while technological redundancy affects more and more people, and use it advantageously rather than screaming and crying about it.

What kinds of ability are inheritable, in your opinion? How do you plan to cope with racism if you spread that idea?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 15, 2016, 06:24:57 am

Come on, don't turn a discussion about biology into an ideological one. 'Is intelligence inheritable?' is not the same as 'Are some people just naturally less valuable than others?'

Have a Nature article. (http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v20/n1/full/mp2014105a.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 15, 2016, 07:14:47 am

Plus, you can have genetically inheritable intelligence without having difference between races, if the distribution of alleles is roughly the same between groups. Plus, you don't have to think intelligence to be genetic for it to be inherited:smart parents will be able to better educate their kids when they are young.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 15, 2016, 07:27:49 am

Not necessarily (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000889).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 15, 2016, 02:36:39 pm

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on September 15, 2016, 03:47:27 am

What kinds of ability are inheritable, in your opinion? How do you plan to cope with racism if you spread that idea?

Most science finds that a crapton of stuff is like 50% genetic and 50% non-shared environment. There's some variance in that, of course, and happily there are still certain low-hanging fruits and the like, but for example, from what I know, happiness is about 50-60% genetic. Another 30% of it was community, and 10% or so was money (once beyond poverty level) and the various factors in one's life that various sources say will make you happy. I think the last little bit is maybe health?

As for how I cope with racism, it's very simple. I don't give a shit whether someone is more naturally inclined towards whatever-the-fuck on a statistical scale, because you can't apply aggregate probability data to individual data points effectively, it's much too noisy for the one thing and for the second it's not that hard to just look at the individual in question. People are people, and thus worthy of respect, regardless of genetics. Meritocracy is great for choosing who leads stuff so things get done effectively. Doesn't mean I think people should be rewarded because they intrinsically deserve to be for ability. Effort, perhaps, but stick-to-itiveness is often genetic too >.> Still, getting the incentives in the system right is basically the best, most reliable way to create better societies, although it's hard to shift power away from existing movers and shakers, since they obviously want to remain in power and because they have power have the means to do so. Whether you want to hep the world or just help yourself, amassing power/resources is essentially the first/best thing to do so you can enact everything else you want to.

Quote from: Sheb on September 15, 2016, 07:14:47 am

Plus, you can have genetically inheritable intelligence without having difference between races, if the distribution of alleles is roughly the same between groups. Plus, you don't have to think intelligence to be genetic for it to be inherited:smart parents will be able to better educate their kids when they are young.

Well...actually parenting style and the like tend to have negligible impact on people once they're adults. And it's hard to find education practices that have meaningful results beyond like a year or two. Technical knowledge, sure, but it's hard to just make kids smarter without actually affecting their biological development.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 16, 2016, 02:26:30 am

Yeah, although in the context of brain exodus due to emigration, you can have deleterious effect even if smarts isn't heritable. The richer and more educted will go first (the one that could have given their kids a good education). Plus, other positive values can also get evaporated out (the most enterprising people would go first for example).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 03:55:45 pm

Here's a terrible EU joke

What do Dutch prostitutes and roads have in common

http://www.euroslag.com/

Quote from: Sheb on September 15, 2016, 07:14:47 am

Plus, you can have genetically inheritable intelligence without having difference between races, if the distribution of alleles is roughly the same between groups. Plus, you don't have to think intelligence to be genetic for it to be inherited:smart parents will be able to better educate their kids when they are young.

famalam you got the narrative wrong
race don't exist, so there can't be differences in distribution between shit that's nonexistent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 04:55:50 pm

If you tell the average American liberal that they will look at you with very annoyed face

Is that what you've heard from EU liberal media?

Though there are recognizable genetic differences (or tendencies) in different populations. Most people of East Asian descent have a mutation which affects the sorts of sweat glands they have and basically means they don't get as much BO. Most Caucasian/people of European descent have a mutation that reduces musical ability, which is hypothesized to be why a lot of European languages are so much less tonal than other languages.

I find this sort of stuff fascinating, but it doesn't mean that one person's more valuable than another because genetics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 05:02:27 pm

Yeah they're more valuable depending on how they use those genes

Someone with 10/10 genes who just eats mcdonalds all day is a waste

Also pretty much, no race here

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 05:17:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 05:02:27 pm

Yeah they're more valuable depending on how they use those genes

Someone with 10/10 genes who just eats mcdonalds all day is a waste

Also pretty much, no race here

Huh. Well, it is (or was) a lot more homogenous there, I guess, so they can get away with it.

I do have to say I find it funny every time the college I'm going to go to requires/displays/does something resembling what anti-PC and anti-SJW people always complain about. Way less common than Thu make it out to be, but when it happens it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 05:36:05 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 05:17:28 pm

Huh. Well, it is (or was) a lot more homogenous there, I guess, so they can get away with it.

m8 u wanna fite london is most diverse in the world

scientists come here and are all "oh fuck, too much diversity, I can't handle this shit DEPLETE IT"
Oh wait, just looked it up:

Quote

"Based on the assumption that modern England is more cosmopolitan, higher genetic diversity in the ancient sample was unexpected," Hoelzel said in a telephone interview on Wednesday. "The expectation is that the gene pool should be more mixed."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-genetics-idUSL0131959120070801

Oh shit, immigrants took my diversity

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 05:17:28 pm

I do have to say I find it funny every time the college I'm going to go to requires/displays/does something resembling what anti-PC and anti-SJW people always complain about. Way less common than Thu make it out to be, but when it happens it sticks out like a sore thumb.

What's funny about it, that's reality for the West

Let Rome fall

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

Cuz folks overreact to it, and cuz' it'll come out of nowhere while being so poorly done that I have to laugh.

And if it were reality for the West, we wouldn't have bathroom bill bullshit brashly brought before the public and passed.

Also cosmopolitanism doesn't bring diversity it just brings more cosmopolitans, who would never marry or have a fling with uncultured swine.

Rome didn't fall in a day, and no empire lasts forever. Sometimes not being the best just means everywhere else is catching up.

That said I do believe that the idea of liberal values causing the end of the world (in fact I only ever see you complain about a few very specific aspects, mostly related to family and race, but gay rights are still liberal thing, not everyone thing, in US; look how long it took to just make gay marriage legal everywhere here) is an overreaction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 07:10:26 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

Cuz folks overreact to it, and cuz' it'll come out of nowhere while being so poorly done that I have to laugh.

Doesn't matter if it's poorly done if it's the only thing being done

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

And if it were reality for the West, we wouldn't have bathroom bill bullshit brashly brought before the public and passed.

What does that mean? Germany will be fine because the USA is passing toilet legislation?

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

Also cosmopolitanism doesn't bring diversity it just brings more cosmopolitans, who would never marry or have a fling with uncultured swine.

Cosmopolitans bring diversity because they without fail support mass immigration in order to rub diversity in the face of the uncultured swine; they do not marry, and thus lacking children, must assume posts in education so as to educate the uncultured swine in the country who do have kids

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

Rome didn't fall in a day, and no empire lasts forever. Sometimes not being the best just means everywhere else is catching up.

Who gives a shit about primacy when you have sovereignty, when you give away sovereignty because you want to be a shallow globalists, congrats your civilization and the legacy that lives beyond your crumbling empire is dead
I'm surprised you'd think I'd support Eurocrat attempts at selling out several European civilizations just to have one shot at breaking US primacy; fight stupid battles, win stupid prizes
gg suicide has been achieved

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

That said I do believe that the idea of liberal values causing the end of the world

I don't agree with you, liberal values cause the end of the liberal world, because the liberal world creates progressives
2016 has been the best current year for everyone else, and things are only getting better

Quote from: Rolepgeek on September 16, 2016, 06:48:54 pm

(in fact I only ever see you complain about a few very specific aspects, mostly related to family and race, but gay rights are still liberal thing, not everyone thing, in US; look how long it took to just make gay marriage legal everywhere here) is an overreaction.

b8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 07:58:15 pm

Quote from: greatorder on September 16, 2016, 07:52:38 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2016, 05:36:05 pm

Let Rome fall

LW, you may have got amnesia. Do you recall a person called Attila the Hun? And, later, the Ottomans?

My name is Ozymandias, just fuck my Kings up fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 17, 2016, 11:09:30 am

Unrelated; this year's rendition of Last Night of the Proms.

It was absolutely fabulous, as usual. Great fun. Of course, this year, there was an unusual amount of EU flags on show in the audience. Predictably, it caused a small wake of whining, it seems. But of course they would be there, partly because some of the audience would like to display their support for the union and partly (mostly, I imagine) to take the piss. Which is a grand old tradition in that event. Hence the dress-up act during Rule, Britannia. Getting genuinely upset over it is really missing the point of the whole show.

But y'know, teh fleergs in the audience are always an exorcise in missing the point. Someone spots the foreign flags and goes "but this is a BRITISH event, what are those doing there!". Particularly when the Germans show up, which is all sorts of hilarious, considering how close Britain and Germany actually are, rather like how the United States and France are pretty similar and thus can't stand each other. Yeah, it's Britain's Big Night, but it's still for fun. And how, exactly, would one celebrate Britishness without an international element in it? It's part of the charm, part of the appreciation. And, of course, nice and traditional affectionate British piss-taking, a trait you'd think a nationalist worth his salt would recognise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 17, 2016, 03:21:00 pm

Don't globalsplain me

Quote

Britain will veto measures to build an EU army for as long as it remains a member of the union, the defence secretary has warned.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-to-block-eu-army-j55kfp7b5

Top lel
France was not wrong

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 17, 2016, 04:32:05 pm

I look forward to the day that Continental jackboots will be marching right under that fuckhead's window. If you want good relations, don't behave like an ass; if you behave like an ass, don't be surprised when it comes around and bites you in the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 17, 2016, 06:29:19 pm

The site is blocking me from reading more than the beginning0 of the article so I don't know if I get the full story, but I have no fucking clue how you could possibly think Britain is behaving like an ass here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 17, 2016, 06:38:14 pm

They're leaving the club, but while they're still in they're blocking something the other club members want to do among themselves? Your ideological blinds must be pretty big if you don't see how this is very questionable behaviour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 17, 2016, 06:39:37 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 17, 2016, 06:29:19 pm

The site is blocking me from reading more than the beginning0 of the article so I don't know if I get the full story, but I have no fucking clue how you could possibly think Britain is behaving like an ass here.

Britains negotiating position for the last few years with the EU has been near-exclusively "We're not really part of you! We can leave whenever we want and will!".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 17, 2016, 07:29:58 pm

Hence the massive, affectionate piss-taking (and presumably passioned Brexiteer-trolling) at the proms. Luvverly!

But yes, the UK has only been aboard on sufferance, and the policy seems to have been "all the advantages, but none of the drawbacks, pl0x" throughout. Perhaps both parties of this admittadly rather messy divorce will be happier for it.

(Although one does feel the very tiniest bit sorry for all those folks who thought the vote meant "chuck out all the filthy foreigners RIGHT NOW THIS MOMENT", I imagine they have grown rather disappointed.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 18, 2016, 06:52:16 am

Eh, this is the first time that GB's old policy of pursuing a power balance on the Continent no longer works. I dare say seeing it like that we might finally be entering the post-Napoleonic age here in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 19, 2016, 07:17:48 am

That, or it's conscious British policy to try to gain leverage for the Brexit negotiation. "We'll block everything you want to do, unless you're nice". I mean, it seems retarded, but hardly more than the rest of the British diplomacy vs. the EU.

Still, it's understandable that the UK doesn't want a parallel structure that could weaken NATO, and some member states (hello Netherlands) will share their view.

P.S.: I'd love to take your bet Covenant. What do you want to bet? I say if you loose, you put on an I love Merkel Avatar, and if I loose, I'll find something with BoJo.

Edit: Apparently France wants to ban all disposable cups, cutlery and plates by 2020 if they aren't made from biodegradable stuff. I never though I'd say that, but well done France!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 12:20:50 pm

Tbh jihadi jackboots in Berlin are far more likely than german jackboots in London

Quote from: Helgoland on September 17, 2016, 04:32:05 pm

I look forward to the day that Continental jackboots will be marching right under that fuckhead's window. If you want good relations, don't behave like an ass; if you behave like an ass, don't be surprised when it comes around and bites you in the same.

The EU is the mentally ill patient who thinks it's in charge of Europe, and needs a military to force Poles to accept masterful cultural enriching
Seriously rich to start off your negotiations with "I'm going to make you suffer," then get confused when the other party decides you having the power to destroy countries with military force is not one you should have

The European Nations have all made talks in good faith with the UK's leaders, but not the European Commission. Heck, Merkel even had to step in just to stop Juncker going full retard trying to destroy Europe just to destroy the UK. Thus all efforts to make European National Democracy stronger is best
France = Great, but Calais mayor is nuts
Germany = Comeback of the century
Sweden = Yes
Denmark = Best
Italy = Great all round
Ireland = Paramount
Netherlands = Such a strangely significant country
Belgium = Such a strange entity
Visegrad = Special status
Commission = Wants us dead

Quote from: Helgoland on September 17, 2016, 06:38:14 pm

They're leaving the club, but while they're still in they're blocking something the other club members want to do among themselves? Your ideological blinds must be pretty big if you don't see how this is very questionable behaviour.

Yeah when has the EU ever ignored the wishes of nation states
Jokes aside, a pan-European defence force sounds like a smart idea, especially if the EU is to continue enlargement towards Russia and the Middle East in future, or conduct military operations in North Africa and the Med
Problem is, is that there is no way in hell that that force is ever going to have command over the British armed forces; thus for as long as Britain is a part of the European Union, there can be no passing of measures which would threaten to assume any authority over our command. The worse case scenario for the Commission is literally just waiting 2 years for the UK to leave before passing the same measures, which would not affect the UK's armed forces. Then there is the issue of the competition between NATO and Yuro Defence League, in that one would make the other redundant. Merkel (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/britain-russia-vladimir-putin-uk-nato-troops-sent-to-border-over-concerns-a7126411.html), Theresa May (obv) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/theresa-may-britain-must-renew-trident-because-of-increased-thre/), Syzdlo (http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/261227,Prime-Minister-Szydlo-hails-NATO-summit-success-for-Poland) e.t.c. are in support of NATO, with IIRC Francois Hollande reluctantly supporting
Food for thought, though I reckon the USA would be pleased if Europe paid for its own defence

Also sad trumpets for a noble leader

Quote

“If I could, I would go back in time to be better prepared for the refugee crisis in 2015, for which we were rather unprepared.”
“I take responsibility as party leader and chancellor,” she said, describing the results as “bitter”.
The anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party won the highest share of the vote for the far-Right since the Second World War, with 14.5 per cent.
Mrs Merkel said she would not repeat her earlier slogan in the migrant crisis of “We can do it” because it had become “an empty phrase”.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/11150514-7e78-11e6-8e50-8ec15fb462f4.html#axzz4KifvaplC

Actually pretty sad to see someone defeated tbh
Wonder why Merkel seems so sad though, cos it doesn't seem like she's actually been defeated

Quote from: Sheb on September 19, 2016, 07:17:48 am

That, or it's conscious British policy to try to gain leverage for the Brexit negotiation. "We'll block everything you want to do, unless you're nice". I mean, it seems retarded, but hardly more than the rest of the British diplomacy vs. the EU.
Still, it's understandable that the UK doesn't want a parallel structure that could weaken NATO, and some member states (hello Netherlands) will share their view.

Nah, this is the first time someone in UK office said they'd block something in the EU
Thanks Obama, NATO or yuro is the question

Quote from: Sheb on September 19, 2016, 07:17:48 am

Edit: Apparently France wants to ban all disposable cups, cutlery and plates by 2020 if they aren't made from biodegradable stuff. I never though I'd say that, but well done France!

Quote

Critics claim the new law violates European Union rules on free movement of goods
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-bans-plastic-cups-plates-cutlery-energy-transition-for-green-growth-a7313076.html

Everywhere you look, every time Europeans sort their shit out, the European Union is there to make sure everything goes to shits

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on September 19, 2016, 12:59:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 12:20:50 pm

needs a military to force Poles to accept masterful cultural enriching

Meanwhile We in Poland lost track of how many times someone wanted to culturally enrich us with guns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 01:09:54 pm

Mongols did it with arrows and tengri

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on September 19, 2016, 01:13:21 pm

Haven't seen anyone posting about it (only looked at the recent posts admittedly), but it's quite a significant event that is worthy of discussing.

Basically, the EU had requested Apple to pay up 14.5 of taxes they had evaded paying in Ireland deeming it an illegal tax evasion scheme.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/business/international/ireland-doesnt-want-apples-back-taxes-but-the-irish-arent-so-sure.html?_r=0

A group of U.S business folks, calling themselves the round table, had sent an open letter basically threatening this would "slow foreign investment" in Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/16/apple-tax-ruling-must-be-overturned-says-us-business-group

I say good move, EU, now unleash yourself on Luxembourg that is bleeding the world but especially Europe from Tax monies. in Countries vs Corporations people should always side with the Countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 01:27:02 pm

Ireland were rather worried because Apple gave them loads of jobs, but the Beeb calculated it, and for every job Apple gave Ireland Apple made $260k annual profit

That's just bad negotiations right there, plus Ireland now gets loads of tax shekels to reinvest

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on September 19, 2016, 01:35:08 pm

If they get those shekels, that is. is it Ireland's money though? i am not sure about Apple, but i know for a fact google and facebook don't pay their taxes in Israel for profits made in locally through a similar scheme in Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 01:55:15 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on September 19, 2016, 01:35:08 pm

If they get those shekels, that is. is it Ireland's money though? i am not sure about Apple, but i know for a fact google and facebook don't pay their taxes in Israel for profits made in locally through a similar scheme in Ireland.

Quote

The commission said Ireland’s tax arrangements with Apple between 1991 and 2015 had allowed the US company to attribute sales to a “head office” that only existed on paper and could not have generated such profits.

The result was that Apple avoided tax on almost all the profit generated from its multi-billion euro sales of iPhones and other products across the EU’s single market. It booked the profits in Ireland rather than the country in which the product was sold.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/30/apple-pay-back-taxes-eu-ruling-ireland-state-aid

Lmao another success for the EU

Quote

Cook said: “We never asked for, nor did we receive, any special deals. We now find ourselves in the unusual position of being ordered to retroactively pay additional taxes to a government that says we don’t owe them any more than we’ve already paid.”

Yep Ireland will get the money, but the Irish politicians don't want the money (or rather, they do want the money, they just want to keep their taxrate low as luxemlow)

American taxpayers will not be the ones footing the cost (http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2016/09/13/no-u-s-taxpayers-wont-pay-apples-14-5-billion-irish-tax-bill/)
Probably a first there

Quote

The commission’s decision is a rebuff to US efforts to persuade it to drop the case after warnings of retaliation from Washington.

I wonder how the USA is retaliating
I wonder if the UK vetoing Eurodefence force is part of the retaliation

*EDIT
Ireland gets the monies but it's a bit funny, cos this was generated from profit over the entire yurop economic area
Essentially if Ireland loses, they get to collect the taxes of all of Apple's european activities

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on September 19, 2016, 02:32:26 pm

The retaliation bit from Washington is baffling Since Washington's interests should theoretically align with the EU here. that is, if Washington actually cared about their tax payers more than their tax evaders/campaign donors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on September 19, 2016, 04:28:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 01:27:02 pm

Ireland were rather worried because Apple gave them loads of jobs, but the Beeb calculated it, and for every job Apple gave Ireland Apple made $260k annual profit

That's just bad negotiations right there, plus Ireland now gets loads of tax shekels to reinvest

capitalis gr8

fri markits r ethicul amirite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 06:32:55 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on September 19, 2016, 04:28:35 pm

capitalis gr8

fri markits r ethicul amirite

you think the eu is a free market ahahahaha

eu is corporatist to the fucking max

Quote from: Vilanat on September 19, 2016, 02:32:26 pm

The retaliation bit from Washington is baffling Since Washington's interests should theoretically align with the EU here. that is, if Washington actually cared about their tax payers more than their tax evaders/campaign donors.

Quote

That news came just days after the company filed its year-end lobbying report, showing it spent a record $4.5 million lobbying Washington in 2015.

Jobs despised Washington, but Cook is far more invested in the influence game. Apple spent an average of just over $1 million per year on lobbying between 1998 and 2011, the year Jobs died. After his death? About three-and-a-half times that, data collected by the Center for Responsive Politics show. In fact, Apple has spent more on lobbying since 2012 than it did in the previous 13 years combined.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2016/01/apples-appetite-for-washington-influence-keeps-growing/

In the contest between americans and american dollars, americans get fucked

Quote from: Covenant on September 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm

Just to confirm, you want to bet me that EU military forces will be marching against (and make landfall in, if it's 'under his window') the UK before the EU breaks apart?
I mean, sure, I'll go for it, but if I lost I think we'd all have bigger things to worry about than a forum avatar.

Tbh I'd be alright with EU military forces making landfall on the UK

We would become one giant malvinas for yurop

The shitposting generated would be incalculable

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on September 19, 2016, 08:30:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 06:32:55 pm

Quote from: Covenant on September 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm

Just to confirm, you want to bet me that EU military forces will be marching against (and make landfall in, if it's 'under his window') the UK before the EU breaks apart?
I mean, sure, I'll go for it, but if I lost I think we'd all have bigger things to worry about than a forum avatar.

Tbh I'd be alright with EU military forces making landfall on the UK

We would become one giant malvinas for yurop

The shitposting generated would be incalculable

Die Britischen Inseln sind Deutsch!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on September 20, 2016, 01:19:06 am

Quote from: Baffler on September 19, 2016, 08:30:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 06:32:55 pm

Quote from: Covenant on September 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm

Just to confirm, you want to bet me that EU military forces will be marching against (and make landfall in, if it's 'under his window') the UK before the EU breaks apart?
I mean, sure, I'll go for it, but if I lost I think we'd all have bigger things to worry about than a forum avatar.

Tbh I'd be alright with EU military forces making landfall on the UK

We would become one giant malvinas for yurop

The shitposting generated would be incalculable

Die Britischen Inseln sind Deutsch!

You have forgotten about russian minority being under BRUTAL CULTURAL OPRESSION there.
There is some need for !LIBERATION!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 12:20:50 pm

Quote

Critics claim the new law violates European Union rules on free movement of goods
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-bans-plastic-cups-plates-cutlery-energy-transition-for-green-growth-a7313076.html

Everywhere you look, every time Europeans sort their shit out, the European Union is there to make sure everything goes to shits

Those "critics" is the packaging industry lobby. The EU ain't doing anything to stop France, it's just the cupmakers throwing a fit.

As for defense, have you ever read the proposals? Nothing proposed so far would put the UK's force under European command. The closest thing would be the proposal to have a permanent HQ for joint European missions (right now, EU missions have rotating HQs), but you could just, like, not join EU missions.

Quote from: Covenant on September 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 19, 2016, 07:17:48 am

P.S.: I'd love to take your bet Covenant. What do you want to bet? I say if you loose, you put on an I love Merkel Avatar, and if I loose, I'll find something with BoJo.

Just to confirm, you want to bet me that EU military forces will be marching against (and make landfall in, if it's 'under his window') the UK before the EU breaks apart?

I mean, sure, I'll go for it, but if I lost I think we'd all have bigger things to worry about than a forum avatar.

Joke's on you, actually, troops from the EU regularily parade in front of Whitehall (litteraly "under his window"). Here, have some French jackboots. :D

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/14th-july-1940-french-general-and-statesman-charles-de-gaulle-french-picture-id3317561?s=594x594)

Also, I love like you're turning into some kind of "Thanks Obama" meme machine, but with the EU instead. I cannot even tell if you're ironic or not. But apparently, the EU is corporatist for forcing Apple to pay billions? And Apple's shifting of intellectual patents is the fault of the EU? (Which explains why Vilanat said they were pulling the same crap in Israel?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on September 20, 2016, 04:28:26 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 19, 2016, 06:32:55 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on September 19, 2016, 04:28:35 pm

capitalis gr8

fri markits r ethicul amirite

you think the eu is a free market ahahahaha

eu is corporatist to the fucking max

When your government gave away UK's fishing quota to a Dutch trawler, and when our government gave away Finland's natural resources to multinational mining giants, they were merely letting the "free markets" work their magic.

It's not "free" as in "free speech," but "free" as in "tax-free."

E:

Quote from: Covenant on September 20, 2016, 03:46:59 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on September 19, 2016, 05:32:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 19, 2016, 07:17:48 am

P.S.: I'd love to take your bet Covenant. What do you want to bet? I say if you loose, you put on an I love Merkel Avatar, and if I loose, I'll find something with BoJo.

Just to confirm, you want to bet me that EU military forces will be marching against (and make landfall in, if it's 'under his window') the UK before the EU breaks apart?

I mean, sure, I'll go for it, but if I lost I think we'd all have bigger things to worry about than a forum avatar.

Joke's on you, actually, troops from the EU regularily parade in front of Whitehall (litteraly "under his window"). Here, have some French jackboots. :D

I didn't get the impression that that was what Helgoland was talking about, but I guess he could clear it up if he cares to.

Found a suitable Merkel for ya!
(http://www.sunray22b.net/images/merkel.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2016, 06:33:26 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

Those "critics" is the packaging industry lobby. The EU ain't doing anything to stop France, it's just the cupmakers throwing a fit.

Those laws are the European Union's laws, the Commission is the European Commission

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

As for defense, have you ever read the proposals? Nothing proposed so far would put the UK's force under European command. The closest thing would be the proposal to have a permanent HQ for joint European missions (right now, EU missions have rotating HQs), but you could just, like, not join EU missions.

Thing is, we don't know what are the full extent of the EU's plans, other than the whole notion of if you're making a command centre, the rest of the command chain will follow. That the EU waited until after the Brexit vote to announce these plans is highly suspicious, especially since during the campaign, when the Leave campaign said the EU wanted to form a single army the EU foreign policy bureaucrat Mogherini said there was absolutely no plan to set up an EU army. Thus after the fact, it is evident the EU was willing to lie as much as it wanted to keep the UK in the EU under its obligations

How the EU integrates is that it places emphasis on cooperation, then sets up new official bureaucracy, then makes it a legal obligatory entity
The head of the snake and the body are inseparable

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

Joke's on you, actually, troops from the EU regularily parade in front of Whitehall (litteraly "under his window"). Here, have some French jackboots. :D

Troops from France are welcome, troops from the EU =/= troops from France. They fly French colours, not sellout colours. Otherwise by your shit credit stealing example, British troops are EU troops, and that is double haram.

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

Also, I love like you're turning into some kind of "Thanks Obama" meme machine, but with the EU instead.

Nah, I'd love to be all fanks obama for the EU, but the EU lacks any charismatic leaders whatsoever to parody
Obama on the contrary actually has personality

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

I cannot even tell if you're ironic or not. But apparently, the EU is corporatist for forcing Apple to pay billions? And Apple's shifting of intellectual patents is the fault of the EU? (Which explains why Vilanat said they were pulling the same crap in Israel?)

Nah the EU is corporatist because it serves only the interest of corporate lobbies
But in more seriousness, the EU fucking loves TTIP and their corporate sponsors fucking love the EU, as they can place whatever regulations they want through the EU to merk their smaller competitors and so avoid actually having to compete

Quote from: SirQuiamus on September 20, 2016, 04:28:26 am

When your government gave away UK's fishing quota to a Dutch trawler, and when our government gave away Finland's natural resources to multinational mining giants, they were merely letting the "free markets" work their magic.

The UK having control over 100% of its fishing stocks and the EU having control over it are two different things m8
In the former, the UK has control over 100% of its fish, it places the quotas limiting mafia trawlers from destroying our seas. In the latter, the EU lets British fishermen take a portion of its own fish, with the rest being allocated to mafia trawlers. The sheer level of bureaucracy in the EU is top cheeki, exact opposite of free market; when bureaucrats who've never held an actual job in their life can decide prices, through subsidies of unprofitable businesses and red tape all over the fucking place, controlling how much is made by who and bought by whom

Don't know what Finns did, but Finngolians will make the Khanate great again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

Quote from: Helgoland on September 17, 2016, 06:38:14 pm

They're leaving the club, but while they're still in they're blocking something the other club members want to do among themselves? Your ideological blinds must be pretty big if you don't see how this is very questionable behaviour.

It's ok, the rest of the EU will get to veto UK's trade deals for years to come in retaliation. Not that it has much to gain, certainly not a few % of GDP in free trade that will get destroyed by tarrifs or several hundred of thousands of bankers that will move from the City to the mainland when they lose their access to the single market. I'm sure the bankers will be welcomed with open arms, unlike those other (economical) refugees.

Dunno what the fuss is about tbh, UK is already part of the EU Battlegroup rotation and if I'm not mistaken had forces under command of the EU Council in the not so distant past.

Quote from: Sheb on September 20, 2016, 01:46:38 am

I cannot even tell if you're ironic or not.

Don't worry, LW is completely unironical to the point of bitter reactionism.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2016, 06:33:26 am

Nah the EU is corporatist because it serves only the interest of corporate lobbies
But in more seriousness, the EU fucking loves TTIP and their corporate sponsors fucking love the EU, as they can place whatever regulations they want through the EU to merk their smaller competitors and so avoid actually having to compete

Ah it's corporatist, just like the rest of the capitalist world then? If I'm not mistaken there is a lobbyist running for office of party leader of the main opposition party in the UK right now and I wonder what Cameron will do next. And what do you think the trade deals that the UK is scrambling to form will look like?

Also in other news, rather than saving those EU membership costs to fund the NHS, let's just fire those firefighters instead: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-37408975

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2016, 10:15:14 am

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

It's ok, the rest of the EU will get to veto UK's trade deals for years to come in retaliation. Not that it has much to gain, certainly not a few % of GDP in free trade that will get destroyed by tarrifs or several hundred of thousands of bankers that will move from the City to the mainland when they lose their access to the single market. I'm sure the bankers will be welcomed with open arms, unlike those other (economical) refugees.

>veto trade deals with yurop
>how will this hurt yurop
lmao napoleon couldn't do it with an army, how will the EU do it without  ;D

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

Dunno what the fuss is about tbh, UK is already part of the EU Battlegroup rotation and if I'm not mistaken had forces under command of the EU Council in the not so distant past.

NATO's HQ is in Brussels
We only need to put the Yurop HQ next door to get this rivalry going with full popcorn in tow

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

Don't worry, LW is completely unironical to the point of bitter reactionism.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/Y3ZPsV2.jpg)

My price is one million keks

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

Ah it's corporatist, just like the rest of the capitalist world then?

You can see why lots of people across the capitalist world are discontent then
It's a bit of a running theme

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

If I'm not mistaken there is a lobbyist running for office of party leader of the main opposition party in the UK right now and I wonder what Cameron will do next.

Owen Smith is a Blairite lobbyist
Do you know how toxic that brand is
In the UK, Tony Blair is noteworthy for making the EU stronger, causing multiculturalism, causing multiculturalism to then fail, entering the UK into the Iraq war over lies, becoming peace ambassador of the middle east after blowing it up, killing socialism and replacing it with neoliberalism, killing neoliberalism and allowing socialists back in e.t.c.
In short, Owen Smith has no chance of defeating Corbyn and has said he will never return to the shadow cabinet once he loses lol, Corbyn's support IS OVERWHELMING (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-more-double-support-owen-smith) whilst Owen Smith is nobody

Cameron's a useless sod and I'm glad he's gone too, really the one you've got to watch out for is Osborne, who has announced he intends to snake his way back into power somehow

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

And what do you think the trade deals that the UK is scrambling to form will look like?

There's this thing called free trade the EU really should try out some time (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573)

Quote from: nuoun on September 20, 2016, 08:52:36 am

Also in other news, rather than saving those EU membership costs to fund the NHS, let's just fire those firefighters instead: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-37408975

The manchester fire service is funded with council taxes from manchester and this is the result of union-chairman power play

Quote

"To start the process for dismissing firefighters to then simply re-engage them on an un-negotiated contract is really appalling, and a serious breach of the agreed mechanisms for industrial relations in the UK fire and rescue service."
"This is the third change to shift systems in Greater Manchester since 2006 - surely firefighters are entitled to some sort of stability in their working lives?"
David Acton, chairman of Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Authority (GMRA), said in a statement: "We have developed a new shift duty system for firefighters which changes from a day shift of 10 and a half hours and a night shift of 13 and a half hours to two equal shifts of 12 hours.

He wants his workers to lose the protection of their current negotiated contract to work under the third shift change cos:

• 1. He's a wanker (unlikely, but possible)
• 2. Manchester was the only city in the UK where tax revenues haven't grown nearly as much as other cities

Quote

Smaller cities have seen larger increases in their tax take but big cities remain crucial. London aside, tax revenues generated in small and medium sized cities have grown more quickly than in larger cities. However, Manchester (http://www.centreforcities.org/publication/10-years-tax/), where tax receipts grew by only 1 per cent over the decade, added only slightly less tax into the national pot over that period than the 10 fastest growing small and medium sized cities combined.

I'm not too bothered with the NHS cos the neoliberals are out of power and can't privatise it anymore, though it remains to be seen what May will do in regards to funding. Personally the reason why I'm not too bothered is because seeing it as an issue of just increasing funding is a strategy doomed to failure, as a fat nation's public health bill is unaffordable no matter how much borrowing you conduct, and obese/smoking patients will increasingly have to pay the price of their own lifestyle (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/02/obese-patients-and-smokers-banned-from-all-routine-operations-by/). It would be much more cost effective funding preventative measures and regulation and such, the sugar tax was a great step in that direction (when fighting lobbying giants like coca cola, you need to strangle them to death by eating their money) but delays like this cause me to be demoralized (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/20/anger-after-key-plan-to-tackle-childhood-obesity-delayed-again/). If they truly bow to lobbyists here, then it will be time to put the pressure on even further come election

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2016, 10:59:29 am

Got a laugh out of this one: British MP misunderstands how tides work (http://www.politico.eu/article/ukip-mp-thinks-sun-causes-tides-douglas-carswell-ukip/). Maybe the MP got confused by the scientists usage of saying 'Jupiter is big, but the Moon moves tides' and was like 'Well, the Sun is bigger!'.

Technically, he is partially correct, the Sun does have influence, but not to the extent he probably thinks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2016, 11:04:52 am

Well it's a step forward from gays cause tides one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 20, 2016, 07:49:02 pm

Quote

Those laws are the European Union's laws, the Commission is the European Commission

Oh come on. Saying that the complaints of some fat cat lobbyist with vested personal interest against something is the EU crushing environmentalism is like saying that the US government is afraid of knocking over Pacific islands by overloading them with troops because of that one congressmans psychotic break.

I mean it's depressing that actual progress, not lets-import-dissatisfied-foreign-youths-from-dangerous-backgrounds and-all-look-shocked-when-they-stab-someone 'progress' is being complained about, but that ain't the big nasty EUs fault.

Like 90% of what you say I agree with / approve of because you're a proper cynical Brit , but then you come out with trash like this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 21, 2016, 04:05:02 am

Meanwhile in London, racial tensions exploded when two groups of about 100 children and adolescents attacked each other with baseball bats, chair legs and knives last monday.
Police arested 7 people between ages of 15 and 21 , and 3 people were injured., of whom 2 are still in hospital.
Eyewitnesses cannot believe that no one was killed and call it a miracle. "My partner was walking the dog in the park and suddenly saw a kid with blood coming from his ears, nose, mouth and everywhere".
Videos from the fight show groups of children relentlessly kicking and hitting kids who are already down on the ground.

According to the police, children as young as 8 years old participated in the fight between a group of white children and a group of dark skinned children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 21, 2016, 05:24:55 am

Sweden phase in tax incentive to spur repair industry. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/waste-not-want-not-sweden-tax-breaks-repairs)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2016, 09:31:58 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 21, 2016, 04:05:02 am

Meanwhile in London, racial tensions exploded when two groups of about 100 children and adolescents attacked each other with baseball bats, chair legs and knives last monday.
Police arested 7 people between ages of 15 and 21 , and 3 people were injured., of whom 2 are still in hospital.
Eyewitnesses cannot believe that no one was killed and call it a miracle. "My partner was walking the dog in the park and suddenly saw a kid with blood coming from his ears, nose, mouth and everywhere".
Videos from the fight show groups of children relentlessly kicking and hitting kids who are already down on the ground.

According to the police, children as young as 8 years old participated in the fight between a group of white children and a group of dark skinned children.

O.o

Geeze, and you know how bad things are here in the US.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 21, 2016, 07:06:23 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 20, 2016, 07:49:02 pm

Oh come on. Saying that the complaints of some fat cat lobbyist with vested personal interest against something is the EU crushing environmentalism is like saying that the US government is afraid of knocking over Pacific islands by overloading them with troops because of that one congressmans psychotic break.

If I knew what you were talking about with that congressman I'd probably disagree

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 20, 2016, 07:49:02 pm

I mean it's depressing that actual progress, not lets-import-dissatisfied-foreign-youths-from-dangerous-backgrounds and-all-look-shocked-when-they-stab-someone 'progress' is being complained about, but that ain't the big nasty EUs fault.
Like 90% of what you say I agree with / approve of because you're a proper cynical Brit , but then you come out with trash like this

oy bruv thats not banta u gotta go 2 jail m8

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2016, 09:31:58 am

O.o
Geeze, and you know how bad things are here in the US.....

Yeah and you just accepted unsourced tales as fact, that's something the European Union would do

Quote

Witnesses claimed teenage boys, some wearing school uniform, were involved in an altercation with pupils from a rival school. (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/erith-fight-shocking-footage-brutal-8872385)

Quote

Violence flared in Northumberland Heath near Erith yesterday evening, with witnesses claiming scores of youths, some armed with knives and bats, took part in a mass brawl.
Shocking footage emerged from the fighting, appearing to show children in school uniform beating each other with sticks while a woman tried to stop them.
Today, police said the trouble, which affected five different areas and saw two teens aged 15 and 19 injured, may have started in the Bexley Broadway shopping area at 4.30pm.
Seven people aged from 15 to 21 have been arrested over the violence, which police confirmed involved “more than 100 youths”. (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/bexley-police-get-extra-powers-to-tackle-teens-after-erith-fight-between-more-than-100-a3349776.html)

Quote

Police were called to "a large fight" in Northumberland Heath in Erith, south-east London, at about 17:40 BST on Monday.
Witnesses said baseball bats and concrete blocks had been used as weapons during the brawl.
Seven people, aged between 15 and 21, have been arrested, police said.
The injuries suffered by the two people in hospital, aged 15 and 19, are not life threatening, the Met spokesperson added.
'Like a battle zone'
More than 100 youths, some of whom were in school uniform, were involved in the fight which took place near the Duchess of Kent pub.
Witnesses said the numbers of people involved - including children as young as 11 - grew during the afternoon.
Footage posted online showed people being kicked and hit with sticks and poles.
Rachael Brunt described Northumberland Heath as "a battle zone with debris of bats and table legs on the grass".
She said there was a "mixture of boys and girls" involved who "started beating a lad to the ground, bashing him with lumps of wood."
Shane Newman, who works in a local betting shop, said he saw "several black youths" who "looked to be around 13 to 16 years old... running up and down the street".
Owen Jeavons, 23, said there had been tension between students at local schools when he was a teenager but called the brawl "something new".
"I have never seen anything like it. It's such a quiet, peaceful place", he said.
Jeanne Asquith wrote on Facebook: "Never seen anything like it and I've lived here eight years... I just just hope the schools deal with those involved. Most were wearing school uniform."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37415570

I've heard it all started with a smaller fight that happened days before this one, that prompted a revenge that escalated into this big mess cos social media organization and all that (keep in mind, rumours)
School tensions is serious business, in my local area for example it's still in my living memory when Peckham and Bermondsey boys fighting/attacking students of the other school warranted police deployment. Plus lol, I remember when I went to school, there was strict control on which boys crossed which bridges, and bloody hell it was pain wearing a red uniform next to a school who wore blue xD
Scale of this is different, this big stuff doesn't really happen, so I wonder what did go on. Find it bloody hilarious though, school kids fight and then unsourced media turns it into racewar

Also in top news:
“I read the condemnation of the EU against me. I will tell them: ‘Fuck you. You’re doing it in atonement for your sins,’” he said late Tuesday, referring to alleged crimes committed by Europeans in the past.
“And then the EU has the gall to condemn me,” he said, flashing a raised middle finger as he spoke in front of local officials in Davao.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/philippine-president-duterte-lashes-out-at-european-union-1474433068[/quote]
Lmao that WSJ damage control
Yeah I wonder what """"alleged"""" sins Germany's committed in the past

Quote

Mr. Duterte singled out France and the U.K. for joining the U.S. in attacking countries in the Middle East in recent years and said history books were littered with examples of atrocities committed by Europeans.

Lmao the absolute madman's even gone after the blood god
I fucking love it, all these years of yuros merking their history has paid off

Quote

“The European Union and the Philippines enjoy good relations, and we will continue to discuss this issue, among many others, in our bilateral contacts and with the authorities,” the EU said in a statement.

Poker face on point

Quote

Turkey to EU: No refugee deal without visa-free travel
FM Cavusoglu says unless Turks are granted visa-free EU travel by October, deal to stem the flow of refugees is off.  (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/turkey-eu-refugee-deal-visa-free-travel-160816101936490.html)
Turkey is incensed by what it sees as an insensitive response from Western allies to the attempted putsch, in which 240 people were killed.
Long wary of Turkey's ambitions to join the EU, some European countries have expressed concern over a huge number of arrests since the coup, implying President Tayyip Erdogan is using it to quash dissent.
The unease has also hurt relations between Turkey and Austria and Sweden, with Ankara summoning diplomats from both countries to protest against what it says are false reports about changes to its child abuse laws.

Bless Sweden, ever since they whipped their own over Saudi Arabia, they've been growing a real spine recently

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 22, 2016, 07:13:01 am

France has arrested two Belgian policemen and detained them for 6 hours after they crossed the border to escort a group of migrants. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/detail_policiers-belges-interroges-en-france-colere-et-preavis-de-greve?id=9411066)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2016, 09:02:34 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 22, 2016, 07:13:01 am

France has arrested two Belgian policemen and detained them for 6 hours after they crossed the border to escort a group of migrants. (http://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/detail_policiers-belges-interroges-en-france-colere-et-preavis-de-greve?id=9411066)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtbf.be%2Finfo%2Fbelgique%2Fdetail_policiers-belges-interroges-en-france-colere-et-preavis-de-greve%3Fid%3D9411066&edit-text=&act=url

The article is kind of confusing though, the Belgian guys were stopping migrants from crossing the border and the French guards who 'caught' them thought they were going the opposite direction?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 26, 2016, 04:19:12 am

The new country is a call to create a better Sweden, a country that is proud, included and sustainable. It is a call to both established and new Swedes that we all need to be integrated. We should not divide each of us and them. Instead, we must find ways forward, and create conditions to live together. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQFUBgAMyo)

And I was joking when I made up new Swedes, lmao it really is true what they say, today's irony is tomorrow's sincerety
So yeah the people who thought this was temporary, gg you now have to integrate Swedes into new Swedes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 28, 2016, 02:41:34 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/ I know it's not an EU state, but it would make the EU concerned for sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 28, 2016, 03:23:55 pm

Eh. I think it'll go the way of the gender politics ratings on game and film boxes suggestion two years or so back. Make a huge song and dance on the internet, upset people, amuse the usual crowd and then never actually happen (but since it was in headlines, people abroad assume that it did to the letter). These things tend to bog off and die by themselves rather quickly, after the hype/anti-hype has gone cold. Most of the New Era 201X Progressive Future La-De-Da affairs follow the same pattern, and I doubt this will be any different. I will report if it does.

As for the KGB developments, it's pretty pleasant at this point to see the Russians getting back to business all open and honestly-like. Might as well get the old company back up and going to do it more efficiently. They have this minor missiles and airliner affair to think of, but the beauty of it is that they can, and will, keep handling it by just saying 'Njet, not us' until judgment day, and probably will.

And finally, autumn is rolling back in over the nerrf, and the sun is settling in for bed for the rest of the year. See you in april, Sun!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/066/294/5cc.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 02, 2016, 01:32:52 pm

Got a question for the French Bay12ers, in http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/us/politics/house-911-victims-saudi-arabia.html and http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/justice-against-sponsors-of-terrorism-act-911-214315, it says that a French politician is planning on introducing a French version of JASTA or something to allow the French to sue the US.

My question is, what would French citizens sue the US about or what was the guy thinking about in particular? Or is it just a 'if you can do it, so can we!' kind of thing? Just wondering here as I've got no idea what the French would have against the US that would be a sueable kind of thing.

I wonder if other countries are going to set up something like that so that their citizens can sue countries besides the US, because, 'ganging up on the world superpower' aside, I'm sure there are other countries who have done things in other countries that country A's citizens would sue country B over.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 02, 2016, 02:10:58 pm

all future world conflicts permanently prevented. everyone to afraid of getting sued. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 02, 2016, 05:05:29 pm

Meanwhile in Hungary, a people's referendum was held. The question posed was, if the EU would be allowed to force Hungary to take up refugees, eevn if the national parliament voted against it.

With a 45% turnout, the referendum is technically void. It required a 50% plus one vote turnout.
However, prime minister Orban (who campaigned strongly for a NO) says he considers the referendum a success, and he will consider making a new law ratifying it despite it being voided.

Of the 45% of population that did go and vote, 98.2% voted NO, according to the Hungarian elections committee.

According to European agreements, Hungary is supposed to take in (a stunning total of) 1294 refugees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 03, 2016, 03:46:08 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 02, 2016, 01:32:52 pm

Got a question for the French Bay12ers, in http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/us/politics/house-911-victims-saudi-arabia.html and http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/justice-against-sponsors-of-terrorism-act-911-214315, it says that a French politician is planning on introducing a French version of JASTA or something to allow the French to sue the US.

My question is, what would French citizens sue the US about or what was the guy thinking about in particular? Or is it just a 'if you can do it, so can we!' kind of thing? Just wondering here as I've got no idea what the French would have against the US that would be a sueable kind of thing.

I wonder if other countries are going to set up something like that so that their citizens can sue countries besides the US, because, 'ganging up on the world superpower' aside, I'm sure there are other countries who have done things in other countries that country A's citizens would sue country B over.

A MP did tack an amendment to a anti-corruption bill being discussed to allow suing any country sponsoring terrorism, but more in a spirit or "Let's show the US it's a terrible idea". The amendment was voted down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 06, 2016, 04:54:43 am

The German comedian Hans Jan Böhmermann has been found not guilty of insulting a foreign head of state. The German court ruled that his poem, in which he depicted Erdogan as a goatfucking pederast was art, and not an insult.

Böhmermann responded to the verdict with happiness, and made a video in which he strongly criticizes Turkey.

https://youtu.be/T3SzUdeVewo (https://youtu.be/T3SzUdeVewo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 06, 2016, 09:29:29 am

He's called Jan, not Hans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 06, 2016, 11:22:44 am

Quote from: Helgoland on October 06, 2016, 09:29:29 am

He's called Jan, not Hans.

Hah, I mixed up two comedians who insulted Erdogan. Jan Böhmermann and Hans Teeuwen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 07, 2016, 05:22:47 pm

BBC NEWS: How Sweden became an exporter of Jihad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37578919)

And that's it folks, we're now at the point where mainstream international media are reporting the breakdown of law and order in progresiv yurop, it's all ogre now.
The eyes have caught sight of the symptoms of dying men, and we are all dying men - if only my shitposts were beamed into the brains of powerful progresiv, this could have all been avoided

There isn't even really the joy of being able to say told you so, just cos it gets worse from here on out for everyone who's not living across the atlantic or living far south
I always say you're never too late for damage control but this is really leaving things late

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on October 07, 2016, 06:52:53 pm

God, Gothenburg isn't what it was...

But it's very, very true. This is what pathological, political naivety leads to. In the most brief terms possible: "Well, they're brown, aren't they? It can't be bad.", coupled with this idea that any sort of criticism of Islamism is, in and off itself, a ringing endoresment for the Nazis.
It's fascinating to see Angered directly referenced. It's Council Estate Land, but I spent a lot of time there as a kid, with a lot of my friends living there. Things have gone worse there, in every sense of the word. It's always been kind of shit since the 80's, but it's gone quite unmanagable now. Open Christians getting harrased, Sharia patrols, gangs doing whatever they like unopposed... In a lot of suburbs like it, ambulances, fire engines and police routinely gets bombarded with rocks.
(Sometimes, I rather wish the emergency services would just give up on the place. "Eey aboo mu nan's burnin ta deff!" "Well, we're evil Swedes and not allowed in, so hands tied, I'm afraid", but it's a group of small cadres rather than the general that does these things. Which does make one wonder further why they're not in prison, or flushing tear gas out of their eyes)

It's also fascinating to see the Bellevue mosque linked to fishing in dark waters, too... I remember that place relatively fondly. Now I want it bulldozed for treason. Lovely world we're livin' in, ain't it?

As for the 'not feeling Swedish and integrated'-part, well, there is truth to that. The integration system is currenty built on making some people feel nice and generous without excerting any cost, rather than doing any real integration. But part of it are themselves, with the idea that everything ought to be adjusted to suit them. That everything wrong in your life is someone elses' fault.

Now... Seriously, if I were a millionaire, I'd fund a "Well, fuck off, then!"-chairty; "if it's so awful here, then there are plenty of Islamic countries in the world. Here's an airline ticket to one of your choice. Adjö." _{Although, that would mean an end to endless benefits to sponge off of, so I doubt there would be many takers.}

To put the naivety into perspective; at the start of the Islamic State nappyhead-train, an MP did suggest (In an earnest, well-meaning kind of way), that returning fighters should be given help and councelling, to find a steady occupation and build a better life. Which is kind of like getting a fleeing Hitler a free job at a call centre for rehabilitation. That suggestion lead nowhere, and is a political embarassment no-one talks about, thank heavens, but nonetheless, the sentiment was there.
Naivety, and the idea that kind, generous ideals (that you don't have to pay for yourself) override basics like law and national security are legion, and they're doing more damage to the land and its citizens than the pathetic Nazi cadres they're intended to oppose could dream of.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 07, 2016, 08:36:45 pm

Well now that's just depressing, depressing in that it's not localized to boot
Danes run the jihad rehab your guys's sentimentals thought about running, so you're not far off yet

I've been thinking much about this:

Quote

Why would someone raised in Gothenburg want to leave one of the most peaceful and progressive countries in the developed world to join a violent extremist group in the Middle East?

With so many of them saying they don't feel Swedish, perhaps the bigger question is: has integration and Sweden's experiment with multiculturalism failed?

And I think much of it has to do with how shallow it all is
Countries like the USA and Canada, in addition to the benefits of their large nations and their lack of historical ties, avoid a lot of the pitfalls of mass immigration European nations do. Moreover, it's very hard to get there, there's a lot of investment in getting there, and there's these very core principles and cultural values to learn (and an expectancy to learn them) that adds depth and meaning to what it means to be of North America. Someone who steps foot in America is one who wants freedom, liberty, industry, to be an American of one America.

Contrast that with Europe, where the land is expensive as fuck so migrants have to purchase the cheapest land wherever it is available near to or in economic capitals. Moreover, because of Europe's historical ties with its colonies, it gets all its migrants from few sources, whereas NA countries get theirs spread out across the world. With mass immigration then, European countries get large volumes of cohesive people grouped together in one community, thus creating no incentive for integration - no diasporas within the larger community, instead parallel communities growing and displacing the historical one.

In Britain we found this approach was a miserable failure and there has been much struggle over this, particularly in England where migration has been highest. To get around this, we focused extensively on civic nationalism, based around the strong and ancient traditions of British law, of the shared history of the Commonwealth's peoples, of the ability of London to absorb anything and produce a Londoner e.t.c. (never doubt the ability of enterprise to unite) to add this depth. Shared religious identity died with the Great War and sequel, it's been long dead, and ethnic depth would threaten to destroy the UK cos Scottish nationalists are a big thing still, so we've gone about as deep as we can go without making the burden upon citizens too much to invest into/creating threats to the sovereignty. Basically, you step on board, you grab your fish and chips and you learn your manners (or learn how to be ill mannered as a Briton) and be on your way, with some caveats of course.

Posting from a while ago this except of the London Evening Standard:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 17, 2016, 05:33:12 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Immigration, immigration, immigration. That's what it's really all about. That's what will decide the EU referendum next week. It would be easier if it was the economy, stupid. We could talk about GP and impersonal financial forecasts but it's that political hot potato we need to grapple with. Is it ever possible to discuss immigration without being accused or caism? Or perhaps more accurately, is it ever possible to raise concerns about or call for less immigration and not be labelled a racist?

There are startling elisions on both sides of the debate. Migration from within the EU, from predominantly Eastern European countries, is overwhelmingly, if not completely, white. Yet the most fervent voices against more foreigners coming in are probably picturing black and brown faces when they talk about "taking our country back".
Both camps have been disingenuous. Leavers pandering to those fears but unable to deliver a remedy and Remainers dismissing all concerns about immigration as xenophobic or racist. EU migration isn't about race but the racism card has been played repeatedly. White audiences often seem surprised when black and Asian Britons say they want fewer immigrants.

Maybe it is proof that we have successfully integrated and feel we belong, or maybe we feel we have more to lose because we are lower down the social pecking order, or maybe it is just because we can air these views without being accused of racism. All immigrants are not the same. Each wave brings its own unique benefits and challenges. The latest wave has had the unintended effect, or perhaps even intended effect, of whitening-up the immigrant workforce.
It goes hand-in-hand with another, more important, concern, which is assimilation.

For some, a third, fourth or even fifth-generation Pakistani-Briton is more of an outsider than a fresh, off-the-coach Pole. And as easy and satisfying as it would be to dismiss that view as racist, there is an element of truth to it. Within a generation that Polish immigrant's child wiill be seen as a white Brit, with a slightly exotic name, perhaps, but "one of us" nonetheless, the cultural, religious and racial leap is a smaller one to make from Poland to Britain than Pakistan to Britain.

So if you are a racist you'd probably be better off voting Remain so we can get more white immigrants. And if you're worried about being racist than you should probably vote out so that we can have more non-EU migration. Like everything else about this referendum, it's as clear as mud.

Rashid Razaq
London Evening Standard

I sympathize very much with all the points made here, I've not much else to say on them other than that shit all matters greatly still. If you fully intend to get people to make these great leaps, this is beyond making Moses an Egyptian or Arminius a Roman, this is making whole populations choose their sovereign nation over their ancestral roots. You have to provide the depth for them to sink their roots into, or else the shallowness'll be known.

Sweden I think has been a particularly harrowing example of this, and a rather easy target because of all the memes. But behind all that, when you see Swedes sincerely give speeches on how Swedes have no culture to destroy and Swedish people don't exist, you must wonder if Europe is going to be like the fish that never notices the lake it lives in until it has dried

The notion that inviting millions of people into someone else's nation, with no expectations of civic duty made, no shared history, no common ethnicity, no common religion, different cultural values and definitions of modesty, music, dress, vice, courtship, freedom, consent, justice, work incentives, cleanliness, status mobility, equality e.t.c. - with the only plan for this massive permanent change to the demographic fabric of the nation being to provide fully for all economic and sexual needs of immigrants and asylum seekers, this notion cannot nor will it succeed in integration or survival. And if you can't provide fully for all economic and sexual needs of immigrants and asylum seekers, what the fuck are you planning, you couldn't succeed even if your theories were correct! And this is not even so; human beings are not purely economic and sexual creatures.

When so many people arrive in Sweden, what are they greeted by? What are their expectations for being Swedish?
This is the issue in making the obligations and expectations for immigrants so broad so as to be most inclusive, that they become so shallow as to become meaningless. There is no magic Swedish clay, there is nothing to which immigrants need be tied to to make them men of Sweden. It is ultimately the people, the institutions, the habits that make the great communities we call nations, and they are nations because they are a united community - united in this depth. Thus when creating this new value system to replace the Yuro system, one of Openness, Economic Freedom, Sexual Freedom, Tolerance, Social Justice, very broad grounds meant to be universally accepting and universally applicable to all man, in its broadness it is shallow - how is it any different from just another open border leftist state?
There will be those who find absolutely no meaning, no attachment nor investment in these values whatsoever. With our jihadists, the rejectment of these values is so severe as to be militiant.
Worse still, they will find no attachment in their host country, no meaning to being Swede; the magic clay becomes a target. They lack any connection with a community, being not of their host nation nor of their roots - a hyperempowered individual obligated to nothing, owing nothing, no duty nor loyalty to anything, lacking any meaning nor provided any by the simple pleasures of the west, ready to latch onto the first identity capable of giving them meaning. Most often, the identity that gives them the strongest depth.

Tl;dr Just my thoughts on recent yurop occurrences and phenomenon
Been looking through my old posts to see what I got right, I got too much right - I didn't make happy predictions for yurop :/
Obligatory, behind all the Sweden memes, one has to acknowledge Western liberal civilization wants to die. Sweden is just the tip of the iceberg (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)
Gonna be a dank ride down lads, I don't even bother posting yuro enrichment anymore, it's just not news anymore

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 08, 2016, 05:19:35 am

Quote from: Covenant on October 08, 2016, 03:22:33 am

Violence and unrest is undoubtedly going to rise in coming years because of these things.

I wonder if the architects of all this - people like Merkel, Blair, and Soros - and their friends and family will manage to avoid it entirely.

Probably, mad $$$ pays off when it comes to avoiding strife, nor would it be the first time Europeans fled to Argentina
Then again, Blair and Merkel are in their 60s and Soros in his 80s, so on the one hand they can't have that many years, on the other hand one of the Rockefellers is in his 100s and still going strong
Wouldn't even call them architects, they're just the face of a broader western movement

I guess politicians longevity using medieval rules. Chances are you will die in your 20s to 30s looking like a wretched husk of your former self, seeming three times your actual age. However if you cross that threshold, chances are you will live a long time indeed. It's not an accurate system but it is hilarious

*EDIT
Topical
German police found shit tons of explosives stashed by syrian bloke on the run from police (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/08/german-police-jaber-albakr-syria-bomb-plot)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Calidovi on October 11, 2016, 09:08:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 08, 2016, 05:19:35 am

Probably, mad $$$ pays off when it comes to avoiding strife, nor would it be the first time Europeans fled to Argentina

STAY WOKE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on October 11, 2016, 09:33:10 am

Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have successfully identified, bounded and called a police upon a bomb suspect Albakr. (http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20161010/3-fellow-syrians-capture-germany-bomb-suspect) He's the one who had "shit tons of explosives stashed" a few posts above me.

I wonder why they did that, after all it is known that Syrian refugees are a part of hivemind bent on destroying European civilization and thus would always help their own fellow terrorist in need, right? /sarcasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 11, 2016, 10:08:36 am

Quote from: Sergarr on October 11, 2016, 09:33:10 am

Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have successfully identified, bounded and called a police upon a bomb suspect Albakr. (http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20161010/3-fellow-syrians-capture-germany-bomb-suspect) He's the one who had "shit tons of explosives stashed" a few posts above me.

I wonder why they did that, after all it is known that Syrian refugees are a part of hivemind bent on destroying European civilization and thus would always help their own fellow terrorist in need, right? /sarcasm

It's totes obvious. They did it to get in good with the governments of the West in order to bring about the ultimate dissolution of Western Civilization and replace it with a Salafi state from within.  What else could it be? </sarcasm>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Calidovi on October 11, 2016, 06:05:31 pm

they've planted decoy muslims to walk among us

be fearful

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2016, 06:09:54 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on October 11, 2016, 09:33:10 am

Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have successfully identified, bounded and called a police upon a bomb suspect Albakr. (http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20161010/3-fellow-syrians-capture-germany-bomb-suspect) He's the one who had "shit tons of explosives stashed" a few posts above me.

I wonder why they did that, after all it is known that Syrian refugees are a part of hivemind bent on destroying European civilization and thus would always help their own fellow terrorist in need, right? /sarcasm

Quote

Albakr came to Germany as a refugee in 2015 and had been granted asylum.

hurrr durrrr i am only capable of talking in extremes, everything is perfect or literally hell

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on October 11, 2016, 06:14:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2016, 06:09:54 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on October 11, 2016, 09:33:10 am

Meanwhile, Syrian refugees have successfully identified, bounded and called a police upon a bomb suspect Albakr. (http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20161010/3-fellow-syrians-capture-germany-bomb-suspect) He's the one who had "shit tons of explosives stashed" a few posts above me.

I wonder why they did that, after all it is known that Syrian refugees are a part of hivemind bent on destroying European civilization and thus would always help their own fellow terrorist in need, right? /sarcasm

Quote

Albakr came to Germany as a refugee in 2015 and had been granted asylum.

hurrr durrrr i am only capable of talking in extremes, everything is perfect or literally hell

Funny seeing this from Mr. "EU is obviously doomed to die at the hands of refugees and UK would've died if it was not for Brexit".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2016, 06:18:11 pm

My statements are not contradictory

*EDIT
Also, it is funny Sergarr, you are one of the people who pointed out how when people argue with me they focus on inane bullshit and argue with points I never made
The EU will die not at the hands of refugees, it will die at the hands of the white man
Epic suicide skills

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 15, 2016, 05:47:20 pm

To help France with it's intention to close down the Jungle of Calais before the end of the year, the UK has accepted to take in all minor immigrants. Registration of children who have family in the UK is already underway, registration of minors without family will start shortly. Children are expected to start arriving in the UK within days. The process has been given high priority after Unicef and other aid organistations expressed serious concerns about children 'disappearing' before they can be registered.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37663125 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37663125)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2016, 06:02:54 am

Quote from: Covenant on October 17, 2016, 12:26:18 pm

So Julian Assange's internet has been severed by a state party (https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/787889195507417088), and there are rumblings he may even be being extradited.
I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts about this, particularly given the conversation we had about human rights last month where many posters viewed human rights as something of a moral absolute (and given that the U.N. apparently considers internet access a human right).
EDIT: Forgot to include the link.

US exceptionalism

checkmate assange

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on October 19, 2016, 06:33:48 am

The "state party" was ecuador. The folks that have been granting him asylum. Apparently they got fed up with the shit he and wikileaks have been doing this US election cycle,* so they pulled the plug on the wifi. Seems to be a combination of having been using it to do (recklessly) criminal shit (iirc, the whole thing with not redacting stuff like SSN or credit card info or somethin' along those lines was a primary example of that, though I forget the details at th'mo.) and attempting to screw with the US election finally breaking their patience.

Haven't noticed anything credible about extradition, yet. It'll likely be on the table if he keeps the course he has, though. Seems like he hasn't been treating his hosts right, and there are limits to the sanctity of asylum.

*Probably not (some of, anyway) the information itself, but more the... rest of it. Timing, framing, etc. And that's assuming the accusations of outright fabrication are in fact spurious, which I'm not sure you could consider unlikely at this point. Wikileaks has kinda' dove off the deep end over the last year or two. And no, that has nothing to do with who they're reporting on. Just how they've been going about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 20, 2016, 03:53:53 am

In Germany, one police officer was killed, and three others grievously injured when a rightwing extremist opened fire. The perpetrator has been arrested with only minor injuries.

The incident happened when police arrived at the man's appartment to seize his firearms. The man had a hunting permit for 31 firearms, but is was revoked, as justice department had decided the man to no longer be fit and trustworthy enough to be allowed to own firearms.

According to the police, the man is a member of the Reichsbürgerbewegung, an extreme right group that does not acknowledge the existence of the Bundesrepublik, and instead belief that Germany should be restored to the Third Reich as it existed during WW2.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 20, 2016, 06:55:43 am

The EU is considering imposing extra economic sanctions against Russia, if Syrian and Russian forces do not stop committing "acts of cruelty" in Syria, accoding to the concept conclusions rapport of the meeting with EU leaders in Brussels.

In a joint statement, the leaders strongly condemn the attacks on civilians of Aleppo, by Syria and it's allies, including Russia.
They call for an immediate end to hostilities and demand access to Aleppo for humanitarian aid convoys.
Furthermore they insist that those responsible for war crimes will need to face trial, and the peace talks should be continued.

There are already sanctions in place against Russia for annexing the Crimea, but sanctions for it's actions in Syria have been politically sensitive.
Yet now, according to the concept rapport, all options are on the table, including travel bans, and freezing accounts of organisations and private persons.

Meanwhile in Aleppo, the Syrian government has just announced that it will expand the cease fire, which was initially supposed to last 11 hours, by 2 days, but only during daylight (between 8am and 7pm) to allow humantiarian convoys to enter the city and evacuate the wounded.
So far there have been no reports that the cease fire has been violated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 21, 2016, 10:34:41 am

The Belgian broadcasting agency RTBF reports that the negotiations between the EU and Canada about the CETA have definitively failed, as the Wallonian half of Belgium insists on vetoeing it in Belgian parliament.
Which is good, not because a trade agreement is bad per definition, but because it tried to sneak in the ISDS along with the agreement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 21, 2016, 10:40:42 am

Actually no, they dropped ISDS due to German opposition and got a separate mechanism (ICS I think it's called?) with judges appointed by both parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 21, 2016, 10:47:05 am

ICS is just a synonym for ISDS. It's still a threat to democratic processes.
Basically, the same shit they pulled as when the European Constitution referendum failed, they said 'okay there will be no constitution' and renamed it to the Treaty of Maastricht.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 21, 2016, 10:58:11 am

Well, it's different in that you aren't judged in front of a panel of arbitrator chosen jointly by the state and the company doing the suing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 21, 2016, 12:38:12 pm

Something going on at one of the London area airports (there's like, 10 that service London), very little details atm.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/europe/london-city-airport-evacuated/index.html?adkey=bn

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-37734096

According to the CNN one, it seems to have been a false alarm? May have been a bad smell from some kitchen or dust from construction, dunno....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 21, 2016, 03:52:25 pm

Eh, security is just jumpy because we had a bomb on our trains recently (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/north-greenwich-station-counter-terror-police-investigate-suspect-package-on-tube-train-a3374721.html), so naturally they get suspicious when suspicious chemical leakages occur

Just a regular chemical leakage, which is alarming, but an isolated case. Don't know who fucked up or that we even kept tear gas stocked in our airports, but that's britain for you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2016, 03:57:50 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/mosul-offensive-isis-eu-warning-iraq-syria-terrorism-a7367721.html
“The retaking of Isis’s northern Iraq stronghold, Mosul, may lead to the return to Europe of violent ISIS-fighters,” Commissioner Julian King told German newspaper Die Welt on Tuesday. Even a handful would pose “a serious threat we must prepare for,” he added.

Around one fifth of Isis’s total fighters – 3,700 people – are residents or nationals of Western Europe, a King’s College London study estimated last year, including 1,200 fighters from France alone. Experts believe 4,000 to 8,000 militants are currently embedded inside Mosul, Iraq’s second largest city, and Isis’s last major stronghold in the country. 

The wages are death

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 27, 2016, 07:50:07 am

Damn it, Wallonia! How could you!? You were the chosen one! (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/belgium-canada-eu-trade-deal-1.3823624)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 27, 2016, 10:34:03 am

Yeah seems it was a bit too soon to call victory on that one :(. Mais pourqoui? Ils sont fous, les Romains.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2016, 11:36:19 am

We could start seeing an unified Cyprus sometime next year (http://www.politico.eu/article/moment-of-truth-for-cyprus-reunification-talks-nicos-anastasiades-mustafa-akinci/). Although the bit about marking a line between the two communities makes it sound rather divided.

Something like this might be a path for the Israel-Palestine problem, if the Israelis and Palestinians would even talk to each other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 27, 2016, 04:30:17 pm

EDIT Moved to tech thread seemed more appropriate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 27, 2016, 06:03:43 pm

I believe them, because it's the DUP. They're automatically against everything, even in spite of themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 28, 2016, 02:37:45 am

I must say, I'm not really anti-CETA, but seeing Magnette turn 180° and says that he's satisfied now when not a single period was changed in the treaty is really cringe-worthy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2016, 11:37:42 pm

Quote

As Belgium's leaders emerged Thursday to announce their compromise on the Canada-Europe trade deal, copies of two declarations found their way onto European websites.

One was Belgium-specific and didn't really alter anything in the agreement — the Flemish premier admitted as much on his way out of the talks — but obviously helped change some minds in Wallonia. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-europe-declarations-thursday-1.3823992)

Ayyy lmao I love european democracy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 29, 2016, 08:50:01 am

The Dutch government proposed a change in the laws protecting children, and those who are deemed unfit to decide for themselves (psychiatric and geriatric patients) from participating as a subject in medical studies.

As it is now, protection is so strict, that 40% of medicine perscribed by doctors for children and psychiatric patients have not been tested on their target group.
So the government proposes that "instead of protecting them from becoming a subject in medical studies, we should protect them by allowing them to become subject in medical studies".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 31, 2016, 04:23:35 am

Today the case against Geert Wilders is finally seeing court. He's facing hatemongering and racism charges for inciting an audience to scant 'we want less moroccans'.
Geert Wilders himself announced that he will not be present in court, as he regards the case as a political trial and refuses to take part.
If he gets convicted it would probably mean the end of his political party (it's a one-man party, and once you get a criminal record law forbids you from leading a political party), and mass riots (his populist party is the largest party in polls for quite a while now).

Wilders has seen court before. The previous case against him was acquitted because the judge ruled that even though his statements of that time (specifically him saying 'a tsunami of islamisation' were hurtful and grieving, they were not discriminating any specific group.
This time however, he specifically targeted Moroccan people, so that argument won't fly.
Judges and jury start the case somewhat pissed. They snarked about having to learn that the defendant would not be joining the court session from the newspapers, instead of through his lawyer.

EDIT: wow, that trial is getting quite some international attention. There's more foreign reporters than Wilders-supporters at the court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2016, 05:59:33 am

source pl0x

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2016, 06:07:01 am

volkskrant is none other than the people's truth Covenant, it is a bastion of freedom and impartiality in a sea of capitalist pigdog news

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 31, 2016, 06:47:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2016, 06:07:01 am

volkskrant is none other than the people's truth Covenant, it is a bastion of freedom and impartiality in a sea of capitalist pigdog news

Volkskrant is a fine newspaper, in fact most Dutch newspapers are very impartial relatively to newspapers in the rest of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2016, 07:24:36 am

nice bants

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 31, 2016, 07:44:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2016, 05:59:33 am

source pl0x

Did you really have to go and make the board of Volkskrant investors call me to post the link LW, you could have just PMd me  ;D

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/live-aangifteproces-tegen-wilders-verliep-rommelig~a4405838/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 02, 2016, 12:34:59 pm

The Dutch government can be so dumb sometimes.
They announced that in 2020, they will get rid of our physical system of air raid alarms. It will be replaced by messages on mobile phones and the internet.

Guess what one of the first things is that will go black if a major conflict would break out present day.

"Sound the air raid alarm! Enemy bombers are approaching our cities!"
"Sorry, no can't do, we're being DDoSsed."

Still, the current system has it's own sillyness. Every first monday of the month, at exactly noon, the air raid alarms go off for a minute for testing purposes.
If ever war breaks out, all the enemy has to do is launch the offensive on the first monday of the month at noon, and no one will notice the air raid alarms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 02, 2016, 12:47:45 pm

I'm trying to think of a scenario where having air raid alarms can actually help Netherlands, and failing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 02, 2016, 01:08:49 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on November 02, 2016, 12:47:45 pm

I'm trying to think of a scenario where having air raid alarms can actually help Netherlands, and failing.

Mad scientist genetically engineering pigeons with explosive shit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 02, 2016, 01:30:53 pm

Those alarms can be used for warning about other things too, such as fire, smoke or chemical hazard... They'll surely at least make people turn on TV and radio for more information. Good to have redundancy and systems that wont fail in case of software issues, electric power blackout and so forth.

Month's first Monday here too, though the test is always very brief and ends in a recorded "this is a test" notification.

In Belgium, it seems that they've arrested this fellow that was used by UN and YK as a consult exprt in firearms matters: http://www.brusselstimes.com/rss-feed/6819/weapons-proofhouse-of-liege-arrest-warrant-issued-for-director No wonder he lobbed for more strict laws, as he had black market business of his own.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 02, 2016, 01:32:54 pm

They should vary the testing dates.  :v

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on November 02, 2016, 01:44:04 pm

But either it's hard to remember (everybody always thinks it's not a drill, or everybody always thinks it's a drill, because they cannot remember the dates) or it's easy to remember (then the attackers can easily tell which day to attack on).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on November 02, 2016, 02:02:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on November 02, 2016, 12:34:59 pm

The Dutch government can be so dumb sometimes.
They announced that in 2020, they will get rid of our physical system of air raid alarms. It will be replaced by messages on mobile phones and the internet.

Guess what one of the first things is that will go black if a major conflict would break out present day.

"Sound the air raid alarm! Enemy bombers are approaching our cities!"
"Sorry, no can't do, we're being DDoSsed."

Still, the current system has it's own sillyness. Every first monday of the month, at exactly noon, the air raid alarms go off for a minute for testing purposes.
If ever war breaks out, all the enemy has to do is launch the offensive on the first monday of the month at noon, and no one will notice the air raid alarms.

They better be fukken' glad they aren't at war with Israel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 02, 2016, 02:45:20 pm

But yeah, the air raid alarms are pretty useless anyhow, since there either are no bomb shelters, or there are and no one is informed about them. No one ever asks. We did have them in ww2 (I actually owe them my existence, cause the house my poor grandma was hiding in from the Germans was bombed by the allies, she would have been dead if not for air raid alarms and bomb shelter), but they have never been mentioned since. I guess in my town, the underground particle accelerator ring structure at our technical universty might very well be the only thing even slightly resembling a bomb shelter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 02, 2016, 09:02:25 pm

You could always try to run out of town and into the fields. Nobody's gonna bomb a couple beets just because they might hit a civilian.

Well, except the Russians maybe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on November 05, 2016, 05:57:14 am

I think a lot of  buildings in germany still double for bomb shelters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 05, 2016, 03:12:12 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on November 02, 2016, 09:02:25 pm

You could always try to run out of town and into the fields. Nobody's gonna bomb a couple beets just because they might hit a civilian.

Well, except the Russians maybe.

You can't make that assumption

See WWII bombing for example, total war rules apply, fuck your beets

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 07, 2016, 01:33:20 am

Montenegro accuses Russia of staging a coup and trying to assasinate the prime minister.
Public prosecutor Milivoje Katnic says that Russian nationalists and Serbs were working together to stage a violent coup to overthrow and kill PM Milo Djukanovic, who has been prime minister for 25 years.

The 'criminal gang' wanted to occupy the parliament on election day (16th of actober) and install a pro-Russian government.
The night before elections, 20 Serbs were arrested under suspicion of terrorism. In Serbia itself, arrests took place as well.
Next to that, Montenegro deported multiple Russian citizens out of it's country.

The group had over 50 automatic weapons, and just as many handguns, according to the prosecutor.
He does add that even though Russian citizens were involved in the organisation, there is no evidence that the Russian government was involved.

It is expected that Montenegro will join NATO next year. It is assumed that Pro-Russian forces wanted to prevent this with the coup.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/montenegro-beschuldigt-russen-van-moordcomplot-tegen-premier~a4410092/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/montenegro-beschuldigt-russen-van-moordcomplot-tegen-premier~a4410092/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 09, 2016, 08:30:35 am

Back to the topic of bomb shelters, being the funny joker I am, I wrote an email to our city council asking them where I could find bombshelters in my city.
They replied me in less than 6h.
Apparently our government in the mid 1980s decided to completely abandon and scrap all bomb shelters as the Cold War had ended, and either tore them down to make room for construction projects, and/or sold them to private parties. Most of these are now being used as server farms and storage areas.

So we still have an air raid alarm, but no bomb shelters at all. Good to know.

/me strikes the earth and digs deeper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 09, 2016, 11:39:54 am

Makes sense really. In the absence of immediate risk of bombings it's more practical to replace or repurpose unneeded bomb shelters into things with more present or practical value.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 09, 2016, 12:48:39 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on November 09, 2016, 11:39:54 am

Makes sense really. In the absence of immediate risk of bombings it's more practical to replace or repurpose unneeded bomb shelters into things with more present or practical value.

This is a really dangerous way of thinking. The global political climate could change unexpectedly rapidly, it takes years to build up shelters in sufficient numbers.

It is not being prepared in any way whatsoever for the single greatest threat to our survival, which is nuclear war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 12:54:11 pm

nukes arent going to wipe out humanity lmao

amount of warheads has been declining for years and its not like nukes make areas uninhabitable

but i guess it makes more sense to nuke all the huge lightly populated areas instead of focusing on military targets and population centers :^]

also, martinuzz mentioned that these are ww2 bomb shelters, those arent gonna protect you from nuclear weapons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 12:58:43 pm

Plus most warheads are set up for a mid-air explosion, limiting the tons of irradiated earth spreading out over miles of realestate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 09, 2016, 01:04:43 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 12:54:11 pm

nukes arent going to wipe out humanity lmao

Nukes are still going to kill a good lot of people in case of a war, to the point of global recession to some sort of crazy techno-barbarian medieval ages. Metro Universe without mutants, basically.

I belive the problem here is that they have literal drills for this kind of events, all the manuals and handbooks and whatnot tells people to head to the nearest bunker and that they should know by asking their city and...
...when they actually do, they say the bunkers don't exist anymore.

We should have the bunkers in any case, because REASONS. If you cry that they're useless, make them useful - like Moscow Metro or most Metros in the world, for that matter. I dunno, really, map the underground rainwater tanks (or whatever they are) and mount some heavy duty doors, other stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:14:42 pm

I personally abide by the wonderful principle of living somewhere no-one cares about enough to nuke. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 01:15:54 pm

Quote from: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:14:42 pm

I personally abide by the wonderful principle of living somewhere no-one cares about enough to nuke. :P

Sealand?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: iceball3 on November 09, 2016, 01:19:36 pm

Quote from: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 01:15:54 pm

Quote from: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:14:42 pm

I personally abide by the wonderful principle of living somewhere no-one cares about enough to nuke. :P

Sealand?

Sealand has been invaded though, before. By mercenaries on jet skis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 09, 2016, 01:21:52 pm

/K/ has been dreaming about invading Sealand for years to set up 4chanland, with Trump in power they could get away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 01:22:55 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 09, 2016, 01:04:43 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 12:54:11 pm

nukes arent going to wipe out humanity lmao

Nukes are still going to kill a good lot of people in case of a war, to the point of global recession to some sort of crazy techno-barbarian medieval ages. Metro Universe without mutants, basically.

I belive the problem here is that they have literal drills for this kind of events, all the manuals and handbooks and whatnot tells people to head to the nearest bunker and that they should know by asking their city and...
...when they actually do, they say the bunkers don't exist anymore.

We should have the bunkers in any case, because REASONS. If you cry that they're useless, make them useful - like Moscow Metro or most Metros in the world, for that matter. I dunno, really, map the underground rainwater tanks (or whatever they are) and mount some heavy duty doors, other stuff.

I mean yeah actual nuking would probably cause hundreds of millions of deaths, but it's not going to literally end humanity.

And still, one has to question if nukes would actually be used against major population centers instead of military targets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:27:01 pm

Quote from: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 01:15:54 pm

Quote from: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:14:42 pm

I personally abide by the wonderful principle of living somewhere no-one cares about enough to nuke. :P

Sealand?

The glorious Republic of South Africa (is Republic still in our name? I forget). Sealand would be good too, though...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 01:29:47 pm

Quote from: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:27:01 pm

Quote from: Innsmothe on November 09, 2016, 01:15:54 pm

Quote from: Arx on November 09, 2016, 01:14:42 pm

I personally abide by the wonderful principle of living somewhere no-one cares about enough to nuke. :P

Sealand?

The glorious Republic of South Africa (is Republic still in our name? I forget). Sealand would be good too, though...

You are also stupidly mineral rich, nuking you would be a major dent in the worlds economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 09, 2016, 01:41:02 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 01:22:55 pm

I mean yeah actual nuking would probably cause hundreds of millions of deaths, but it's not going to literally end humanity.

And still, one has to question if nukes would actually be used against major population centers instead of military targets.

Looking back at Ameripol thread where people basically told me that full-on nuclear retailation for one nuke at everything that moves is A-Ok, yes. Also, some military targets are near big cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 09, 2016, 01:44:02 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 12:54:11 pm

nukes arent going to wipe out humanity lmao

amount of warheads has been declining for years and its not like nukes make areas uninhabitable

but i guess it makes more sense to nuke all the huge lightly populated areas instead of focusing on military targets and population centers :^]

also, martinuzz mentioned that these are ww2 bomb shelters, those arent gonna protect you from nuclear weapons.

You don't need a shelter to survive in a wasteland, you need a shelter to not get obliterated by the bomb in the first place.


Also there used to be a military barracks about 2 kilometres from my parent's home, it was known to be a potential target for a nuclear strike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 01:52:11 pm

Quote from: Antioch on November 09, 2016, 01:44:02 pm

Quote from: miauw62 on November 09, 2016, 12:54:11 pm

nukes arent going to wipe out humanity lmao

amount of warheads has been declining for years and its not like nukes make areas uninhabitable

but i guess it makes more sense to nuke all the huge lightly populated areas instead of focusing on military targets and population centers :^]

also, martinuzz mentioned that these are ww2 bomb shelters, those arent gonna protect you from nuclear weapons.

You don't need a shelter to survive in a wasteland, you need a shelter to not get obliterated by the bomb in the first place.


Also there used to be a military barracks about 2 kilometres from my parent's home, it was known to be a potential target for a nuclear strike.

i adressed that in my post lol

they're not going to nuke low-population areas without military targets. you living near a military target doesnt change anything about that

unless you want to claim that in the event of total nuclear war, they'll nuke every square centimeter of the australian outback, africa, the himalayas and siberia, nukes won't end humanity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 09, 2016, 02:05:47 pm

Who ever said anyhting about nukes. The reason I'd like bomb shelters is more for protection against conventional bombing and shelling than for nukes.
That being said, if there's gonna be nuking, I'd probably be screwed, living in a city that houses both the only NATO airfield in NW Europe with a large enough runway for the Hercules to take off fully loaded and fueled, as well as a lot of important high tech industry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 09, 2016, 05:45:52 pm

Couldn't you repurpose highways for that sort of thing in a pinch?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 09, 2016, 06:09:48 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on November 09, 2016, 05:45:52 pm

Couldn't you repurpose highways for that sort of thing in a pinch?

In late 90s Germany shut down all the Notlandeplatz (Emergency Highway Landing Strips) because they weren't required anymore.
Poland supposedly has 21 of those, but only 1 is active.
Sweden and Finland and Norway I think supposedly still run theirs, but I'm not sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 10, 2016, 06:29:04 am

Besides that, Hercules is just too big to land on most EU highways, even those purposedly left without middle rail for emergency landing purposes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 11, 2016, 02:51:22 am

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0.15/news/on-euro-weekly-news/spain-news-in-english/141908-spanish-government-attempts-to-ban-memes


I wonder if this is fake or not.  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 11, 2016, 03:17:53 am

Quote from: sprinkled chariot on November 11, 2016, 02:51:22 am

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0.15/news/on-euro-weekly-news/spain-news-in-english/141908-spanish-government-attempts-to-ban-memes


I wonder if this is fake or not.  ???

I remember a while ago that a Mexican politician wanted to do something similar because they didn't like some political memes, but really, stuff like that is in the same vein as political cartoons (kind of resembles political cartoons of the late 19th century actually, with a modern twist).

If they ban memes, they may as well ban political cartoons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2016, 03:20:00 am

Ahem. How do we define "memes" here? Because depending on your exact definition, banning them might involve killing every animal on the planet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 15, 2016, 03:38:57 am

Europe wants to extend it's role, and wants to not only be the world's leading economy, but also wants to become the worlds' major military power.
EU ministers signed an agreement in which they majorly intensify military cooperation, and for the first time in EU history clearly state they are willing to send troops to conflict hotspots outside of the EU.
"A quantum leap forward towards a European Defense and Security policy", said Mogherini, EU chief of foreign affairs.
According to German minister von der Leyen, member states have shown their political commitment to upgrade the EU to a European Defensive Union.
The Luxemburg minister Asselborn says "The EU has no other option. If we do not combine forces, we will be crushed in between Russia, the US and China".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 15, 2016, 03:40:41 am

Without federalism a desire like that is doomed to failure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2016, 06:08:11 am

ayyy lmao, I'm having flashbacks

Quote

The 'remain' campaign has been hit with a bombshell claim after reports of secret plans to form an EU army emerged on the morning of 27 May. The blueprint is apparently being drawn up by Brussels and is being kept from UK voters until after the 23 June vote (EU referendum live blog: follow here).
The plans include new European military and operational structures and the EU's foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, has apparently spent a year and a half preparing the defence document for a 28 June summit, The Times reports.
The UK vetoed a similar plan in 2011 and the government has insisted that Britain would never become part of an EU army. But the report is likely to infuriate Brexit campaigners, who have previously warned about Brussel's alleged ambitions for an EU army.
A spokesperson for Britain Stronger in Europe said: "If we leave the EU, they could create a European army as we would not be at the table to veto it.
"The former heads of Nato, MI5 and MI6 have all said our country's national security is threatened if we leave. That's why we're safer remaining in Europe."
However, former defence secretary Liam Fox claimed a 'leave' vote would be the UK's "last chance to be dragged" into a permanent EU army. The report comes after a number of former British generals threw their support behind a Brexit, amid claims from remain campaigners that staying inside the EU would make the UK safer.

Skeevy liars (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum-plans-eu-army-kept-secret-until-after-brexit-vote-1562327). Went around parading themselves like peacocks of peace whilst drafting up plans to induct our armed forces

Also in other news Germany has banned a salafist organization set up by a naturalized refugee, what's hilarious about it is that they banned the organization and made no arrests or detentions. (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/15/europe/germany-salafist-raids/) There is literally nothing stopping its members from just making a new organization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 15, 2016, 06:46:49 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 15, 2016, 03:40:41 am

Without federalism a desire like that is doomed to failure.

It's still a first step. Federalism won't come like that anyway, uniting defense and foreign policies is the first step.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 15, 2016, 10:49:59 am

Seems like Germany is starting to take it a bit more seriously: German police have carried out nationwide dawn raids on more than 200 mosques, apartments and offices associated with an Islamist group. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37985011)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2016, 10:58:11 am

I see no difference between getting squashed between the US, China, and Russia and being squashed beneath Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2016, 11:18:21 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 15, 2016, 10:49:59 am

Seems like Germany is starting to take it a bit more seriously: German police have carried out nationwide dawn raids on more than 200 mosques, apartments and offices associated with an Islamist group. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37985011)

Nah, it's the same news as before

Quote

"By banning this organisation, a major source of radicalisation has been eradicated nationwide. Those who spread hate messages can't hide behind freedom of religion."

Stated message

Quote

No arrests were made during the raids, but German interior minister Thomas de Maiziere said: "The translations of the Koran are being distributed along with messages of hatred and unconstitutional ideologies.

No arrests were made, so the same people will just rebuild their network (http://news.sky.com/story/germany-bans-dwr-islamic-group-after-dawn-raids-across-the-country-10658261)

It's not even a new development, German police have been trying to suppress them without doing all that much since last year (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-german-police-raid-berlin-mosque-anti-terror-investigation-1520715), the year before that (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-crisis-germany-muslims-idUSKCN0HI22E20140923) and from the year before that I found this report on extremists, and how in spite of far right and far left, salfists have become the greatest internal security threat (http://www.verfassungsschutz.niedersachsen.de/aktuelles_service/meldungen/innenminister-pistorius-stellt-neuen-verfassungsschutzbericht-2013-vor-124756.html) and the year before that the Germans were getting concerned about Salafists trying to hand out Korans to every household (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/world/europe/germany-koran-giveaway-worries-officials.html) e.t.c.

Quote from: http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-salafi-20160914-snap-story.html

Hans-Georg Maassen, president of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, said that there are 9,200 Salafis in Germany, up from 8,900 in June and  about 5,500 three years ago. His remarks came a day after three young Syrian militants posing as refugees were arrested on suspicion of planning terror attacks.
“The unchecked growth in the number of Salafis is expanding the pool of recruits for jihadists,” Maassen said.
Almost all of the German nationals who have travelled to Syria to fight for Islamic State became radicalized by Salafis, who target low-income Muslim youths in German cities, experts say.
“Young Muslim men who are drifting are the main targets for Salafis,” said Thomas Muecke, co-founder of the nonprofit group Violence Prevention Network. “Those who preach hate are especially effective in attracting and holding on to these lost young men.” 
He also said that agents were facing challenges monitoring potential terrorists who are using various methods of communication such as WhatsApp, Facebook and other networks that sometimes make it harder for authorities to track.
Muecke said authorities believe terrorist groups are trying to attract new recruits from among the refugees who have arrived in Germany in the last year.
It is increasingly difficult for the German intelligence agency to differentiate between those who identify intellectually with Salafism and those who espouse using violence to realize a radical version of Islam.
The warning from Maassen, the country’s top domestic spy came just a day after the German government said three Syrians were arrested in a raid by 200 police officers north of Hamburg.
Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said they were Islamic State members who entered Germany along with some 1 million refugees in November, aided by the same network that brought militants into France to carry out deadly attacks last year.
Germany and governments across Europe are on high alert after a string of terrorist attacks in France, Belgium and Germany. Refugees carried out two attacks in Germany in July claimed by Islamic State.
Tuesday’s arrests in a collection of small towns just north of Hamburg, the city where Mohamed Atta lived as a student while quietly plotting the 9/11 attacks, was a shock for Germany. Many are worried that there are more dormant terrorists among the refugee population. Sixty-one percent of Germans believe the influx of refugees has increased the chance of terrorist attacks in the country, according to a poll conducted in July by the Pew Research Center. 
Maassen also said the German intelligence agency was increasingly worried about the growing number of “lone wolves” behind the most recent attacks.
“We’re concerned about this new breed of attackers who seem to be acting on their own,” he said. “It’s a real challenge for us to detect such small sleeper cells.”
Salafis have been in the news in Germany in the past when they’ve clashed with police at protests. In 2012, Salafis attacked police protecting a demonstration in front of a Saudi Arabian school in Bonn. Twenty-nine officers were wounded, two of them were stabbed, and more than 100 people were arrested.

So what is the German plan?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 15, 2016, 12:02:57 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2016, 10:58:11 am

I see no difference between getting squashed between the US, China, and Russia and being squashed beneath Germany.

The military is exactly one of the points where the other nations of the EU can actually lead it and even be funded by it, seeing as Germany has a really weak military. Germany is certainly not the alpha and omega of the EU, and certainly not in this domain. If there was an european army, it'd be based on France and Poland.

Also, there are actually massive differences between the US, China, Russia and Germany, but I'm pretty sure that's just rhetoric, apart from the fact that you can have a say in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 15, 2016, 12:15:50 pm

It is at least something. There is need of a quite significant spring cleaning, long overdue, and it's a start. Of course, it'd be more efficient if those people were arrested, examined and put through trial, but baby steps.
I'm rather worried what will happen when the tumours of Mosul and Raqqa bursts, though. I suppose a lot of the Jihadists will have the decency to die, but imagine having a big, sudden wave of fighters, with fresh combat experience, slink back "home" again.

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2016, 10:58:11 am

I see no difference between getting squashed between the US, China, and Russia and being squashed beneath Germany.

Well, it'd be a more cosy and beneficial squash. German mega-influence would probably, on the whole, be a lot less unpleasant than occupation or general bullying. Of course, all assuming this scenario could happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 15, 2016, 08:54:29 pm

Precisely. We'd be much more polite and self-conscious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on November 16, 2016, 08:09:14 am

As a Bosnian, I welcome our German overlords. We've never had better rulers than the Hapsburgs, and a lot of people here think that nobody in our history fucked us over more than Gavrilo Princip. I guess Germany is the next best thing since Austria abandoned it's imperial ambitions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 16, 2016, 10:34:07 am

Yeah, Greece is probably super happy about being under das Boot too.

Quote from: Helgoland on November 15, 2016, 08:54:29 pm

Precisely. We'd be much more polite and self-conscious.

Germans aren't known for being polite and self-conscious, Helgo. They are known for being fat, loud, and self-entitled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 16, 2016, 10:56:50 am

Like Stockholmers? (Well, subtracting the fat) Oh, dear, oh, dear, that is cause enough to reconsider.  :P

Quote from: DJ on November 16, 2016, 08:09:14 am

As a Bosnian, I welcome our German overlords. We've never had better rulers than the Hapsburgs, and a lot of people here think that nobody in our history fucked us over more than Gavrilo Princip. I guess Germany is the next best thing since Austria abandoned it's imperial ambitions.

Better them than Turkey, that's for certain. I rather like that photograph of Princip in prison. He has that "Oh, God, I have made a terrible boo-boo" look on his face. Could be malnutrition, but there is certainly a splash of puzzled regret in there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 11:59:49 am

Quote from: scriver on November 16, 2016, 10:34:07 am

Quote from: Helgoland on November 15, 2016, 08:54:29 pm

Precisely. We'd be much more polite and self-conscious.

Germans aren't known for being polite and self-conscious, Helgo. They are known for being fat, loud, and self-entitled.

Oh, wanna start up an insult match with me and see who gets banned first? Personally I rather wouldn't, but if you were to throw down the gauntlet, I'd be forced to take it up of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 16, 2016, 12:30:47 pm

That sounds dumb, I'll give you a friendly tip instead: Don't bring up what your band sound like if you can't handle negative reviews.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 03:54:46 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 15, 2016, 12:15:50 pm

It is at least something. There is need of a quite significant spring cleaning, long overdue, and it's a start. Of course, it'd be more efficient if those people were arrested, examined and put through trial, but baby steps.
I'm rather worried what will happen when the tumours of Mosul and Raqqa bursts, though. I suppose a lot of the Jihadists will have the decency to die, but imagine having a big, sudden wave of fighters, with fresh combat experience, slink back "home" again.

That describes the situation they have now
It's like trying to go baby steps with climate change

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 15, 2016, 12:15:50 pm

Well, it'd be a more cosy and beneficial squash. German mega-influence would probably, on the whole, be a lot less unpleasant than occupation or general bullying. Of course, all assuming this scenario could happen.

In the UK Greeks were rather depressed, because everyone was talking about European solidarity whilst talking about imposing any number of measures on Greece to let them sink on their own. Turn Greece into a refugee centre, impose austerity measures upon Greece and sell anything to repay Germany, even kick them out of the Eurozone if needs be
They didn't feel much solidarity then

Quote from: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 11:59:49 am

Oh, wanna start up an insult match with me and see who gets banned first? Personally I rather wouldn't, but if you were to throw down the gauntlet, I'd be forced to take it up of course.

At least it's considerably more tolerable than the stereotypes for French and Italians

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 03:57:03 pm

Quote from: PanH on November 15, 2016, 12:02:57 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2016, 10:58:11 am

I see no difference between getting squashed between the US, China, and Russia and being squashed beneath Germany.

The military is exactly one of the points where the other nations of the EU can actually lead it and even be funded by it, seeing as Germany has a really weak military. Germany is certainly not the alpha and omega of the EU, and certainly not in this domain. If there was an european army, it'd be based on France and Poland.

That needs to change. Germany needs to rebuild its military tradition and military strength.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:02:37 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 03:57:03 pm

That needs to change. Germany needs to rebuild its military tradition and military strength.

You know how this ends... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtjDLdLJkqc&feature=youtu.be)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:10:42 pm

No need for a reducto ad hitlerum, friend-o. Germany doesn't behave the same way it did in 1939. Frankly, the complete neutering of German military power lasting to this day is kind of disgusting to me, including permanent limits on its military's size.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:14:13 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 03:57:03 pm

That needs to change. Germany needs to rebuild its military tradition and military strength.

It is however pretty much a guaranteed that if Germans are in uniform it's one glossed over with the euro-prefix

This would allow it to build an effective and active military force whilst avoiding the psychological block caused by their history, in addition to allaying French or Polish fears about German rearmament. It is interesting to see that Germany is gradually relearning how to use its economic might to flex actual might, like arming and training foreign fighters (http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/070320161) or offering logistical support to French soldiers (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mali-rebels-germany-idUSBRE90D0XW20130114). These actions look like trial runs, the precursors to eventually deploying their own soldiers abroad, learning from their allies

Tbh as long as Germany isn't going to try uboat the UK to death again this seems more or less a good thing. Germany can't be hitler forever

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:10:42 pm

No need for a reducto ad hitlerum, friend-o. Germany doesn't behave the same way it did in 1939. Frankly, the complete neutering of German military power lasting to this day is kind of disgusting to me, including permanent limits on its military's size.

I am sure that Panzerlied is still used by Bundeswehr. ANYWAY THOUGH, it seems that Germany went the other way, with the refugee crisis and whatnot. I wouldn't mind seeing Germans rolling into Russia on defending democracy with panzers side to side with glorious Polish Winged Hussars tanks but I must say that with the current, how to put it, world view of German (and, to be honest, most of the EU) government those panzers aren't rolling far. Having great army doesn't mean shit if you're willing to just bend over to anyone barely threatening.

And, to be honest, German army shouldn't be allowed to get back where they were until Germans learn to live with their past and stop acting like it never happened. Don't say they don't, because they clearly do, and while they do have one argument (fear of the Neo-Nazis), the policy of censorship and so on is even more disgusting, and the best example is taking a fucking pigeon goose-stepping to a marching song as a call back to Hitler. Germans goose-stepped for long time before him and will for long time after, just as the Poles will forever be most glorious nation of all the Earth and the Winged Hussars the mightest fighting force in history.
Reductio ad Hitlerum is not going to get anyone anywhere, but trying to never ever mention him again is not helpful either.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:14:13 pm

Tbh as long as Germany isn't going to try uboat the UK to death again this seems more or less a good thing. Germany can't be hitler forever

That's very classic British point of view, same shit as in 1939. As long as they're not U-Boating us to death, let them do anything they want in Europe. Germany can't be German Empire forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:10:42 pm

No need for a reducto ad hitlerum, friend-o. Germany doesn't behave the same way it did in 1939. Frankly, the complete neutering of German military power lasting to this day is kind of disgusting to me, including permanent limits on its military's size.

I am sure that Panzerlied is still used by Bundeswehr. ANYWAY THOUGH, it seems that Germany went the other way, with the refugee crisis and whatnot. I wouldn't mind seeing Germans rolling into Russia on defending democracy with panzers side to side with glorious Polish Winged Hussars tanks but I must say that with the current, how to put it, world view of German (and, to be honest, most of the EU) government those panzers aren't rolling far. Having great army doesn't mean shit if you're willing to just bend over to anyone barely threatening.

And, to be honest, German army shouldn't be allowed to get back where they were until Germans learn to live with their past and stop acting like it never happened. Don't say they don't, because they clearly do, and while they do have one argument (fear of the Neo-Nazis), the policy of censorship and so on is even more disgusting, and the best example is taking a fucking pigeon goose-stepping to a marching song as a call back to Hitler. Germans goose-stepped for long time before him and will for long time after, just as the Poles will forever be most glorious nation of all the Earth and the Winged Hussars the mightest fighting force in history.
Reductio ad Hitlerum is not going to get anyone anywhere, but trying to never ever mention him again is not helpful either.

You serious? You think they pretend it didn't happen? Do you know anything about how the rise of fascism and Hitler is taught in Germany? Do you know how it's treated? Germans self-flagellate all the fucking time about it. The younger generations less so, to some degree, but that is only justified, as that shit happened seventy fucking years ago.

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 16, 2016, 04:46:00 pm

Yeah, Germany teaches about nazism and WWII and the holocaust to no end, one cannot fault it for not a lack of trying. But the German state itself still acts like it has a natural right to govern Europe, an innate claim to leadership and domination, and consequently an entitlement to other states. I personally feel that the reason Germans are so positive towards the EU and a future United States of Europe isn't chiefly because they are less nationalistic than the rest of the European peoples - it is because the German people-soul is still the most imperialistic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

I am sure that Panzerlied is still used by Bundeswehr. ANYWAY THOUGH, it seems that Germany went the other way, with the refugee crisis and whatnot. I wouldn't mind seeing Germans rolling into Russia on defending democracy with panzers side to side with glorious Polish Winged Hussars tanks but I must say that with the current, how to put it, world view of German (and, to be honest, most of the EU) government those panzers aren't rolling far. Having great army doesn't mean shit if you're willing to just bend over to anyone barely threatening.
And, to be honest, German army shouldn't be allowed to get back where they were until Germans learn to live with their past and stop acting like it never happened. Don't say they don't, because they clearly do, and while they do have one argument (fear of the Neo-Nazis), the policy of censorship and so on is even more disgusting, and the best example is taking a fucking pigeon goose-stepping to a marching song as a call back to Hitler. Germans goose-stepped for long time before him and will for long time after, just as the Poles will forever be most glorious nation of all the Earth and the Winged Hussars the mightest fighting force in history.
Reductio ad Hitlerum is not going to get anyone anywhere, but trying to never ever mention him again is not helpful either.

All very good points, but I simply must ask: Do you put wings on your tanks? Moreover, which is preferable, Germany kowtowing to far weaker states like Turkey, or Germany rolling tanks into Istanbul?

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

That's very classic British point of view, same shit as in 1939. As long as they're not U-Boating us to death, let them do anything they want in Europe. Germany can't be German Empire forever.

Well you got me there
The way I see it, all the times after the Napoleonic wars that the UK has sacrificed its generations to maintain status quo in Europe, it has not been long before someone has tried to establish European hegemony all over again. Whilst we're still in the EU we're still putting the whole EU military on hold, but thereafter it'll be up to Poland and France to decide whether they want a lasting German hegemony
Thus I hold the view as long as they're not U-boating us to death there is no need to have a preemptive strike on Berlin, especially as the chance of civil war in Germany increases they will need a strong military keeping civil order

Quote from: scriver on November 16, 2016, 04:46:00 pm

Yeah, Germany teaches about nazism and WWII and the holocaust to no end, one cannot fault it for not a lack of trying. But the German state itself still acts like it has a natural right to govern Europe, an innate claim to leadership and domination, and consequently an entitlement to other states. I personally feel that the reason Germans are so positive towards the EU and a future United States of Europe isn't chiefly because they are less nationalistic than the rest of the European peoples - it is because the German people-soul is still the most imperialistic.

I don't think there's anything inherently imperialistic about the German soul, it's more a fact of Germany's economic dominance over Europe; look at the USA's transformation from an agrarian republic to a world superpower for example, powerful nations build up the institutions that seek more power

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 16, 2016, 04:56:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

I am sure that Panzerlied is still used by Bundeswehr. ANYWAY THOUGH, it seems that Germany went the other way, with the refugee crisis and whatnot. I wouldn't mind seeing Germans rolling into Russia on defending democracy with panzers side to side with glorious Polish Winged Hussars tanks but I must say that with the current, how to put it, world view of German (and, to be honest, most of the EU) government those panzers aren't rolling far. Having great army doesn't mean shit if you're willing to just bend over to anyone barely threatening.
And, to be honest, German army shouldn't be allowed to get back where they were until Germans learn to live with their past and stop acting like it never happened. Don't say they don't, because they clearly do, and while they do have one argument (fear of the Neo-Nazis), the policy of censorship and so on is even more disgusting, and the best example is taking a fucking pigeon goose-stepping to a marching song as a call back to Hitler. Germans goose-stepped for long time before him and will for long time after, just as the Poles will forever be most glorious nation of all the Earth and the Winged Hussars the mightest fighting force in history.
Reductio ad Hitlerum is not going to get anyone anywhere, but trying to never ever mention him again is not helpful either.

All very good points, but I simply must ask: Do you put wings on your tanks? Moreover, which is preferable, Germany kowtowing to far weaker states like Turkey, or Germany rolling tanks into Istanbul?

Here's a winged tank. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_tank) Not polish though,

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

You serious? You think they pretend it didn't happen? Do you know anything about how the rise of fascism and Hitler is taught in Germany? Do you know how it's treated? Germans self-flagellate all the fucking time about it. The younger generations less so, to some degree, but that is only justified, as that shit happened seventy fucking years ago.

Oh, but we feel so fucking sorry about it it's okay. Except no, that's not the point either. You feel so fucking sorry that you literally go extra length to make sure that nobody would ever try to accuse Germany of Nazism again and yet still any mention causes Germany to go caustic, games are banned because they want to be historically accurate (I may have this talk mainly because I am salty because I can't shoot down swastikas in War Thunder) and the only thing that's stopping me from equalizing EU to another try at ruling the Europe is how memetic that is. Meanwhile, when we flip the fuck out when someone AGAIN says Polish death camps it's overreaction.
Okay.
And seventy years is not even a real argument since Poland still holds nation-wide wanks over Grunw- pardon, Tannenberg and Cedynia.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

>Poland
You do realize that Poland had literally no choice about this (not that we didin't want to, after WW2 it was quite understandable that people wanted to see Germans in hell)? And fuck, I am very much sure that we'd prefer to keep the pre-war borders with Wilno and Lwów and so on (which would lead to me not being a thing, as half my family is descended from ethnic Germans that signed the papers that they prefer to be Polish after the war. My grandgranduncle actually fought in a panzer in Kursk, though I never really learned in what panzer or at which position). It's not like the Eastern Poland wasn't ethnically cleansed post-WW2 either.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

All very good points, but I simply must ask: Do you put wings on your tanks? Moreover, which is preferable, Germany kowtowing to far weaker states like Turkey, or Germany rolling tanks into Istanbul?

We'd love to but that's apparently not NATO compliant. :/
Also, I guess the second option, but I'm not sure if it's Turkey that's the big evil here.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

That's very classic British point of view, same shit as in 1939. As long as they're not U-Boating us to death, let them do anything they want in Europe. Germany can't be German Empire forever.

Well you got me there
The way I see it, all the times after the Napoleonic wars that the UK has sacrificed its generations to maintain status quo in Europe, it has not been long before someone has tried to establish European hegemony all over again. Whilst we're still in the EU we're still putting the whole EU military on hold, but thereafter it'll be up to Poland and France to decide whether they want a lasting German hegemony
Thus I hold the view as long as they're not U-boating us to death there is no need to have a preemptive strike on Berlin, especially as the chance of civil war in Germany increases they will need a strong military keeping civil order

What if they start gassing the Christians? This I mean in completly theoretical way, because, you know, Britian totally knew about the thing with Jews and they would be more than happy to not intervene. Would they totally repeat that one? I think they totally would.

Quote from: smjjames on November 16, 2016, 04:56:28 pm

Here's a winged tank. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_tank) Not polish though,

>Russian tanks
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (http://i.imgur.com/MDYnLMX.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 16, 2016, 05:13:58 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

You serious? You think they pretend it didn't happen? Do you know anything about how the rise of fascism and Hitler is taught in Germany? Do you know how it's treated? Germans self-flagellate all the fucking time about it. The younger generations less so, to some degree, but that is only justified, as that shit happened seventy fucking years ago.

Oh, but we feel so fucking sorry about it it's okay. Except no, that's not the point either. You feel so fucking sorry that you literally go extra length to make sure that nobody would ever try to accuse Germany of Nazism again and yet still any mention causes Germany to go caustic, games are banned because they want to be historically accurate (I may have this talk mainly because I am salty because I can't shoot down swastikas in War Thunder) and the only thing that's stopping me from equalizing EU to another try at ruling the Europe is how memetic that is. Meanwhile, when we flip the fuck out when someone AGAIN says Polish death camps it's overreaction.
Okay.
And seventy years is not even a real argument since Poland still holds nation-wide wanks over Grunw- pardon, Tannenberg and Cedynia.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

>Poland
You do realize that Poland had literally no choice about this (not that we didin't want to, after WW2 it was quite understandable that people wanted to see Germans in hell)? And fuck, I am very much sure that we'd prefer to keep the pre-war borders with Wilno and Lwów and so on (which would lead to me not being a thing, as half my family is descended from ethnic Germans that signed the papers that they prefer to be Polish after the war. My grandgranduncle actually fought in a panzer in Kursk, though I never really learned in what panzer or at which position). It's not like the Eastern Poland wasn't ethnically cleansed post-WW2 either.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

All very good points, but I simply must ask: Do you put wings on your tanks? Moreover, which is preferable, Germany kowtowing to far weaker states like Turkey, or Germany rolling tanks into Istanbul?

We'd love to but that's apparently not NATO compliant. :/
Also, I guess the second option, but I'm not sure if it's Turkey that's the big evil here.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 04:49:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 04:25:36 pm

That's very classic British point of view, same shit as in 1939. As long as they're not U-Boating us to death, let them do anything they want in Europe. Germany can't be German Empire forever.

Well you got me there
The way I see it, all the times after the Napoleonic wars that the UK has sacrificed its generations to maintain status quo in Europe, it has not been long before someone has tried to establish European hegemony all over again. Whilst we're still in the EU we're still putting the whole EU military on hold, but thereafter it'll be up to Poland and France to decide whether they want a lasting German hegemony
Thus I hold the view as long as they're not U-boating us to death there is no need to have a preemptive strike on Berlin, especially as the chance of civil war in Germany increases they will need a strong military keeping civil order

What if they start gassing the Christians? This I mean in completly theoretical way, because, you know, Britian totally knew about the thing with Jews and they would be more than happy to not intervene. Would they totally repeat that one? I think they totally would.

Quote from: smjjames on November 16, 2016, 04:56:28 pm

Here's a winged tank. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_tank) Not polish though,

>Russian tanks
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (http://i.imgur.com/MDYnLMX.jpg)

I knew what you meant Kot, just ribbing you. :) There's a Japanese and an UK one in there too though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:16:28 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

You serious? You think they pretend it didn't happen? Do you know anything about how the rise of fascism and Hitler is taught in Germany? Do you know how it's treated? Germans self-flagellate all the fucking time about it. The younger generations less so, to some degree, but that is only justified, as that shit happened seventy fucking years ago.

Oh, but we feel so fucking sorry about it it's okay. Except no, that's not the point either. You feel so fucking sorry that you literally go extra length to make sure that nobody would ever try to accuse Germany of Nazism again and yet still any mention causes Germany to go caustic, games are banned because they want to be historically accurate (I may have this talk mainly because I am salty because I can't shoot down swastikas in War Thunder) and the only thing that's stopping me from equalizing EU to another try at ruling the Europe is how memetic that is. Meanwhile, when we flip the fuck out when someone AGAIN says Polish death camps it's overreaction.
Okay.
And seventy years is not even a real argument since Poland still holds nation-wide wanks over Grunw- pardon, Tannenberg and Cedynia.

This is a lot of babble without a point that I can discern.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

>Poland
You do realize that Poland had literally no choice about this (not that we didin't want to, after WW2 it was quite understandable that people wanted to see Germans in hell)? And fuck, I am very much sure that we'd prefer to keep the pre-war borders with Wilno and Lwów and so on (which would lead to me not being a thing, as half my family is descended from ethnic Germans that signed the papers that they prefer to be Polish after the war. My grandgranduncle actually fought in a panzer in Kursk, though I never really learned in what panzer or at which position). It's not like the Eastern Poland wasn't ethnically cleansed post-WW2 either.

I didn't say Poland had a choice. I said, how they treat it currently. No apologies, downplaying what happened, and all that. Yes, they were pressed into it, but it's not like they were reluctant. They performed the bloody tasks right alongside the Soviets with gusto. And yes, I do understand the why of it. But that doesn't change the fact that Poland helped commit atrocities, and that fact isn't excused by the fact of "but they did it first". Besides which, almost all of the civilians that were raped, killed, and expelled from Schlesien, Pommern, Preußen, etc. had nothing to do with the atrocities whatsoever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:16:28 pm

This is a lot of babble without a point that I can discern.

You do realize that Polish name for Germans, Niemcy, comes from the word "Niemy" which means mute, because we literally couldn't understand a single shit you were saying.
So I guess that's mutual feelings. :p

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:16:28 pm

I didn't say Poland had a choice. I said, how they treat it currently. No apologies, downplaying what happened, and all that. Yes, they were pressed into it, but it's not like they were reluctant. They performed the bloody tasks right alongside the Soviets with gusto. And yes, I do understand the why of it. But that doesn't change the fact that Poland helped commit atrocities, and that fact isn't excused by the fact of "but they did it first". Besides which, almost all of the civilians that were raped, killed, and expelled from Schlesien, Pommern, Preußen, etc. had nothing to do with the atrocities whatsoever.

Apologies totally happened. German minority is obnoxious as fuck, there had to be some after Soviets were finally gone, not to mention that I know a lot of cases where families are running into legal trouble because some fucks from Germany come and claim that it's their land. Downplaying... well, maybe? I don't really see how it would be downplayed, as everyone who wanted to be German went the fuck away and everyone who wanted to be Polish (of course, with exceptions made for people who helped Nazis and such) stayed.
You're right, the atrocities are not excused by "they did it first" (though you could fuck off with the "rape" things, that's Red Army, Poles weren't even in state to commit true atrocities at this point especially considering that they basically went through the same shit as Germans did from Russians because it wasn't really that much difference to them), but they are excused by one tiny little nearly irrelevant detail...
Poland, at least in theory, won the war. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:16:28 pm

This is a lot of babble without a point that I can discern.

You do realize that Polish name for Germans, Niemcy, comes from the word "Niemy" which means mute, because we literally couldn't understand a single shit you were saying.
So I guess that's mutual feelings. :p

I'm aware of the origin of the Slavic term for Germans. My girlfriend (a Russian national) and I have discussed it before. Kind of amusing, really.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:16:28 pm

I didn't say Poland had a choice. I said, how they treat it currently. No apologies, downplaying what happened, and all that. Yes, they were pressed into it, but it's not like they were reluctant. They performed the bloody tasks right alongside the Soviets with gusto. And yes, I do understand the why of it. But that doesn't change the fact that Poland helped commit atrocities, and that fact isn't excused by the fact of "but they did it first". Besides which, almost all of the civilians that were raped, killed, and expelled from Schlesien, Pommern, Preußen, etc. had nothing to do with the atrocities whatsoever.

Apologies totally happened.

No, they didn't. As far as I'm aware, no country that took part in the ethnic cleansing of German territories in the East has ever given an official apology for the atrocities they committed. In fact, as recently as the late 90s, 86% of Czechs said they would reject apologizing to Germany for their part in the ethnic cleansing of the Sudetendeutsche.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

German minority is obnoxious as fuck, there had to be some after Soviets were finally gone, not to mention that I know a lot of cases where families are running into legal trouble because some fucks from Germany come and claim that it's their land.

It's historically German territory, so German "minority" is kind of misleading.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Downplaying... well, maybe? I don't really see how it would be downplayed, as everyone who wanted to be German went the fuck away and everyone who wanted to be Polish (of course, with exceptions made for people who helped Nazis and such) stayed.

Downplayed as in, Poland likes to claim the ethnic cleansing affected fewer people than it actually did, or downplaying the number of Germans who were killed, etc.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

You're right, the atrocities are not excused by "they did it first" (though you could fuck off with the "rape" things, that's Red Army, Poles weren't even in state to commit true atrocities at this point especially considering that they basically went through the same shit as Germans did from Russians because it wasn't really that much difference to them), but they are excused by one tiny little nearly irrelevant detail...
Poland, at least in theory, won the war. :P

Victory doesn't excuse any atrocity (and anyway, saying Poland won the war is like saying the fly won the fight with the spider when it got crushed by a boot after the fly was entangled in a web).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 05:58:33 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

We'd love to but that's apparently not NATO compliant. :/

top kekles

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

Also, I guess the second option, but I'm not sure if it's Turkey that's the big evil here.

I don't see it as a good or evil thing most of the time, the more you learn about your enemies you find a lot of them are motivated by the same concerns you have. We all want food, water & family, the goal is to minimize the conflict to attain it
If Germany had to send tanks after Turkey in a show of force (or an actual intervention, such as after the coup), it would just be one state completing its agenda vs one failing it. I think it can be summarized as might does not make right, but might makes. At least we can establish that there are situations where Germany having no power is not preferable to Germany having power :P

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:10:20 pm

What if they start gassing the Christians? This I mean in completly theoretical way, because, you know, Britian totally knew about the thing with Jews and they would be more than happy to not intervene. Would they totally repeat that one? I think they totally would.

Except that's wrong (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/27/britain-holocaust-memorial-day_n_6554586.html)
Anyways I'd support intervention then, on moral and practical grounds. Not without Polish or French support though, and I'd like it to be an absolute last resort since war is expensive and there's little way to go to war with a rival great power that doesn't get messy, very quickly. The UK beat Germany twice and ended up economically dislocated in victory to the point where its victory looked like defeat, there are no winners there except those who didn't fight, thus only fight if fighting is inevitable (the whole if they're not uboating us doctrine and all). I suppose this is all contingent on whether the EU survives or not, if Frexit and Polout happens then everything changes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on November 16, 2016, 05:59:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 16, 2016, 10:34:07 am

Yeah, Greece is probably super happy about being under das Boot too.

Quote from: Helgoland on November 15, 2016, 08:54:29 pm

Precisely. We'd be much more polite and self-conscious.

Germans aren't known for being polite and self-conscious, Helgo. They are known for being fat, loud, and self-entitled.

You're thinking of Americans, scriver

Germans are known for food, beer, and snazzy fashion sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 06:06:28 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on November 16, 2016, 05:59:15 pm

You're thinking of Americans, scriver

Germans are known for food, beer, and snazzy fashion sense.

Food and beer are the reasons for #1, and snazzy fashion sense belongs to the French stereotype so Scriver just missed 'great engineering,' 'stubbornness', 'sternness', 'depravity', 'humility' and 'frankness'

Also something about digging holes on beaches. I think that last one is a historical thing, as Germans don't really do that these days, certainly not more than everyone else digs stuff on the beach

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 16, 2016, 06:16:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 06:06:28 pm

Also something about digging holes on beaches. I think that last one is a historical thing.

Tell that to our coastal cities during summer season. There's this joke over here that no nation will ever conquer the Dutch beaches during summer time, because every inch is covered by dug in Germans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

No, they didn't. As far as I'm aware, no country that took part in the ethnic cleansing of German territories in the East has ever given an official apology for the atrocities they committed. In fact, as recently as the late 90s, 86% of Czechs said they would reject apologizing to Germany for their part in the ethnic cleansing of the Sudetendeutsche.

Truly, they do it because they only hate the Germans and don't have an actual reason for this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia#Legacy)

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

German minority is obnoxious as fuck, there had to be some after Soviets were finally gone, not to mention that I know a lot of cases where families are running into legal trouble because some fucks from Germany come and claim that it's their land.

It's historically German territory, so German "minority" is kind of misleading.

Bullshit. Historically, Lechitic Polabian Slavs lived on territories right up to the goddamn Elbe.
And if we were to go only by what actual countries were there, it was first rightful Polish clay too. It was actually one of main arguments that the Poland post-WW2 was returning to it's original borders. The only place where you could say Poles took would be Prussia, but even then it was the Teutonic Order (which, by the way, was totally a vassal of Poland after we kicked their ass so hard they went secular) who slaughtered the Pruthenians and said it was theirs.
It's not a real argument, of course, as there was no real Polish population (Note that this is due to earlier German Kulturkampf and other atrocities) there, but historically it's Polish clay. And Germans there are a minority because they are a fucking minority by the laws national and international, so it's not misleading in any way.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Downplaying... well, maybe? I don't really see how it would be downplayed, as everyone who wanted to be German went the fuck away and everyone who wanted to be Polish (of course, with exceptions made for people who helped Nazis and such) stayed.

Downplayed as in, Poland likes to claim the ethnic cleansing affected fewer people than it actually did, or downplaying the number of Germans who were killed, etc.

I told you, I don't see the cleansing affecting that much people if everyone and their dog has German roots. I mean, fuck, right, anyone who didin't want to accept being a Pole was kicked the fuck out, but a lot of people remained because they preferred to stay here and just adapt.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

You're right, the atrocities are not excused by "they did it first" (though you could fuck off with the "rape" things, that's Red Army, Poles weren't even in state to commit true atrocities at this point especially considering that they basically went through the same shit as Germans did from Russians because it wasn't really that much difference to them), but they are excused by one tiny little nearly irrelevant detail...
Poland, at least in theory, won the war. :P

Victory doesn't excuse any atrocity (and anyway, saying Poland won the war is like saying the fly won the fight with the spider when it got crushed by a boot after the fly was entangled in a web).

Well, I said in theory. The whole thing was a fucking master move by Stalin though, not only he shut up Poles that they lost half their territory but also created (or rather, strengthened) a long-lasting antagonism between Poles and Germans so we would be cucked forever never really going to get our shit together and face the real enemy.
Germans are at least kind of sorry about the WW2 and you can deal with them, Russians not so much.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 05:58:33 pm

Except that's wrong (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/27/britain-holocaust-memorial-day_n_6554586.html)

No.
Pilecki got caught in fucking 1940 and went to Auschwitz. Reports proably started to flow in by the end of the year, and in May 1941 Britain and France and Spain and America and literally everyone officially knew about all of it thanks to Sikorski who was literally begging for Allies to do something, to bomb the tracks or something. All he got from Churchill was promise to look into it. This is only one source, and there were previous incidents. Also, hell, why didin't they just read his goddamn fucking book, he says all the shit there. I am not even mentioning the fact that Allies knew about Ribbentrop-Molotov, Katyń or their rejection of preemptive war. Allies knew well about Holocaust but only thing they did was to bitch and then play big liberators when they arrived over five years late.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 06:26:21 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

I'm not gonna touch this whole discussion with a ten-foot broomstick, but I'd really, really prefer if you didn't refer to these territories as 'Eastern Germany'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:35:29 pm

Try a ten-foot pole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 06:36:30 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

No, they didn't. As far as I'm aware, no country that took part in the ethnic cleansing of German territories in the East has ever given an official apology for the atrocities they committed. In fact, as recently as the late 90s, 86% of Czechs said they would reject apologizing to Germany for their part in the ethnic cleansing of the Sudetendeutsche.

Truly, they do it because they only hate the Germans and don't have an actual reason for this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia#Legacy)

First you claim an apology was forthcoming, and now you say that of course an apology was never forthcoming? Way to shift the goalposts.

And kind of interesting. Of course they don't want to apologize, because then they might actually have to pay compensation for the atrocities they committed. The horror!

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

German minority is obnoxious as fuck, there had to be some after Soviets were finally gone, not to mention that I know a lot of cases where families are running into legal trouble because some fucks from Germany come and claim that it's their land.

It's historically German territory, so German "minority" is kind of misleading.

Bullshit. Historically, Lechitic Polabian Slavs lived on territories right up to the goddamn Elbe.
And if we were to go only by what actual countries were there, it was first rightful Polish clay too. It was actually one of main arguments that the Poland post-WW2 was returning to it's original borders. The only place where you could say Poles took would be Prussia, but even then it was the Teutonic Order (which, by the way, was totally a vassal of Poland after we kicked their ass so hard they went secular) who slaughtered the Pruthenians and said it was theirs.

Well alright, if you wanna go back thousands of years, then Germany should control France and half of Italy and Iberia, too.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

It's not a real argument, of course, as there was no real Polish population (Note that this is due to earlier German Kulturkampf and other atrocities) there, but historically it's Polish clay. And Germans there are a minority because they are a fucking minority by the laws national and international, so it's not misleading in any way.

Sure, they're a minority because Eastern Germany was occupied and ethnically cleansed.

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 05:25:20 pm

Downplaying... well, maybe? I don't really see how it would be downplayed, as everyone who wanted to be German went the fuck away and everyone who wanted to be Polish (of course, with exceptions made for people who helped Nazis and such) stayed.

Downplayed as in, Poland likes to claim the ethnic cleansing affected fewer people than it actually did, or downplaying the number of Germans who were killed, etc.

I told you, I don't see the cleansing affecting that much people if everyone and their dog has German roots. I mean, fuck, right, anyone who didin't want to accept being a Pole was kicked the fuck out, but a lot of people remained because they preferred to stay here and just adapt.

Not many people? Really? 14 million people expelled, two million dead, isn't many people to you? Fascinating, really fascinating.

Quote from: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 06:26:21 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

If you want to talk about a country pretending the past didn't happen, let's talk about how Poland treats the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany between 1945 and 1950.

I'm not gonna touch this whole discussion with a ten-foot broomstick, but I'd really, really prefer if you didn't refer to these territories as 'Eastern Germany'.

I'll use the accurate terminology, thanks. Preußen, Pommern, Schlesien, and so forth are Eastern Germany. Vorpommern-Berlin-Brandenburg-Sachsen area is Central Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 06:58:48 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:20:38 pm

No.
Pilecki got caught in fucking 1940 and went to Auschwitz. Reports proably started to flow in by the end of the year, and in May 1941 Britain and France and Spain and America and literally everyone officially knew about all of it thanks to Sikorski who was literally begging for Allies to do something, to bomb the tracks or something. All he got from Churchill was promise to look into it. This is only one source, and there were previous incidents. Also, hell, why didin't they just read his goddamn fucking book, he says all the shit there. I am not even mentioning the fact that Allies knew about Ribbentrop-Molotov, Katyń or their rejection of preemptive war. Allies knew well about Holocaust but only thing they did was to bitch and then play big liberators when they arrived over five years late.

Kot if you look at my link you'll see that your dates are correct. And by those dates you are wrong. During that time Britain was defending its core islands in the Battle of Britain, the Battle of the Atlantic was reaching its height of intensity, the siege of Malta had begun, Hong Kong, Malaya and Burma were falling to the Japanese Empire, Italian and German forces fought British forces in North Africa for control over oil and the Suez e.t.c.

Relevant:

Quote

But whatever the Allies knew, US Holocaust historian David Wyman has questioned whether they could have done more to stop the mass murder. Leaders have often been accused of failing to respond quickly enough to the news. Some historians such as Wyman argue that moves like bombing the gas chambers of Auschwitz would have lessened the number of deaths, but others say it would have had no effect on the Nazi genocide. Large-scale rescue operations were considered but it was not clear to policymakers how this could be achieved.

Germany, Italy and Japan were on the offensive and the UK on the defensive, France having been knocked out of the war and the USSR likewise on the defensive. I don't know what more you expect the UK could've done

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2016, 07:03:28 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 06:36:30 pm

Truly, they do it because they only hate the Germans and don't have an actual reason for this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia#Legacy)

First you claim an apology was forthcoming, and now you say that of course an apology was never forthcoming? Way to shift the goalposts.[/quote]
This is Czechs and Slovaks. I don't know about them really, but that's what I found on the internet. As for the Polish apology, you're right in that I can't find official government apology, but as I said, Germans get their shit back a lot and that's when they're apologized, but they first need to come here, ask for it and prove it's theirs.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 06:36:30 pm

And kind of interesting. Of course they don't want to apologize, because then they might actually have to pay compensation for the atrocities they committed. The horror!

...

Quote

This plan was suggested to the Inter-Allied Reparation Agency (IARA) in 1945, but because of the advent of the Cold War was never confirmed by any treaty with Germany. The IARA ended its activity in 1959 and the status quo is as follows: Czech Republic kept the property of expelled ethnic Germans while Germany did not pay any reparations (only about 0.5% of Czechoslovak demands were satisfied [39]). For this reason, every time the Sudeten Germans request compensation or the abolition of the Beneš decrees, the Czech side strikes back by the threat of reparation demands.

The other way around, really. They don't want to apologize because Germany doesn't want to compensate for atrocities they commited. Makes me think if that might be the reason why Poland never apologized, as we didin't get paid either. And it's us who pays fucking Jewish families from Polish territories reparations too.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Well alright, if you wanna go back thousands of years, then Germany should control France and half of Italy and Iberia, too.

>Germany = Holy Roman Empire. Haha wat.
This isin't even how this shit works, the Emperor was Emperor, which means he ruled over Italy, France, Iberia, and whateverfucktonofGermanstates and what not but not as one, unified, German country, but rather as some sort of proto-UE. Feudal ladder is pretty easy.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 05:37:22 pm

Not many people? Really? 14 million people expelled, two million dead, isn't many people to you? Fascinating, really fascinating.

Quote

The German Historical Museum puts the figure at 600,000, maintaining that the figure of 2 million deaths in the previous government studies cannot be supported. The current official position of the German government is that the death toll resulting from the flight and expulsions ranged from 2 to 2.5 million civilians.

Quote

In accordance with the Potsdam Agreement, at the end of 1945 – wrote Hahn & Hahn – 4.5 million Germans who had fled or been expelled were under the control of the Allied governments. From 1946–1950 around 4.5 million people were brought to Germany in organised mass transports from Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. An additional 2.6 million released POWs were listed as expellees.

Quote

In 2006, Haar called into question the validity of the official government figure of 2 million expulsion deaths in an article in the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung. Since then Haar has published three articles in academic journals that covered the background of the research by the West German government on the expulsions.

Haar maintains that all reasonable estimates of deaths from expulsions lie between around 500,000 and 600,000, based on the information of Red Cross Search Service and German Federal Archives. Harr pointed out that some members of the Schieder commission and officials of the Statistisches Bundesamt involved in the study of the expulsions were involved in the Nazi plan to colonize Eastern Europe. Haar posits that figures have been inflated in Germany due to the Cold War and domestic German politics, and he maintains that the 2.225 million number relies on improper statistical methodology and incomplete data, particularly in regard to the expellees who arrived in East Germany. Haar questions the validity of population balances in general. He maintains that 27,000 German Jews who were Nazi victims are included in the West German figures. He rejects the statement by the German government that the figure of 500–600,000 deaths omitted those people who died of disease and hunger, and has stated that this is a "mistaken interpretation" of the data. He maintains that deaths due to disease, hunger and other conditions are already included in the lower numbers. According to Haar the numbers were set too high for decades, for postwar political reasons.

Quote

In 2001, Polish researcher Bernadetta Nitschke puts total losses for Poland at 400,000 (the same figure as the German Federal Archive study), she noted that historians in Poland have maintained that most of the deaths occurred during the flight and evacuation during the war, the deportation to the USSR for forced labour and after the resettlement due to the harsh conditions in the Soviet occupation zone in postwar Germany. Polish demographer Piotr Eberhardt found that, "Generally speaking, the German estimates…are not only highly arbitrary, but also clearly tendentious in presentation of the German losses." He maintains that the German government figures from 1958 overstated the total number of the ethnic Germans living in Poland prior to war as well as the total civilian deaths due to the expulsions. For example, Eberhardt points out that "the total number of Germans in Poland is given as equal 1,371,000. According to the Polish census of 1931, there were altogether only 741,000 Germans in the entire territory of Poland."

Quote

German historians Hans Henning Hahn and Eva Hahn published a detailed study of the flight and expulsions that is sharply critical of German accounts of the Cold War era. The Hahns regard the official German figure of 2 million deaths as an historical myth, lacking foundation. They place the ultimate blame for the mass flight and expulsion on the wartime policy of the Nazis in Eastern Europe. The Hahns maintain that most of the reported 473,013 deaths occurred during the Nazi organized flight and evacuation during the war, and the forced labour of Germans in the Soviet Union; they point out that there are 80,522 confirmed deaths in the postwar internment camps. They put the postwar losses in eastern Europe at a fraction of the total losses: Poland-15,000 deaths from 1945 to 1949 in internment camps; Czechoslovakia- 15,000–30,000 dead, including 4,000–5,000 in internment camps and ca. 15,000 in the Prague uprising; Yugoslavia-5,777 deliberate killings and 48,027 deaths in internment camps; Denmark- 17,209 dead in internment camps; Hungary and Romania - no postwar losses reported. The Hahns point out that the official 1958 figure of 273,000 deaths for Czechoslovakia was prepared by Alfred Bohmann, a former Nazi Party member who had served in the wartime SS. Bohmann was a journalist for an ultra-nationalist Sudeten-Deutsch newspaper in postwar West Germany. The Hahns believe the population figures of ethnic Germans for eastern Europe include German-speaking Jews killed in the Holocaust. They believe that the fate of German-speaking Jews in Eastern Europe deserves the attention of German historians. ("Deutsche Vertreibungshistoriker haben sich mit der Geschichte der jüdischen Angehörigen der deutschen Minderheiten kaum beschäftigt.")

Quote

In 1995, research by a joint German and Czech commission of historians found that the previous demographic estimates of 220,000 to 270,000 deaths in Czechoslovakia to be overstated and based on faulty information. They concluded that the death toll was at least 15,000 people and that it could range up to a maximum of 30,000 dead, assuming that not all deaths were reported.

Quote

Overmans conducted a research project that studied the casualties of the German military during the war and found that the previous estimate of 4.3 million dead and missing, especially in the final stages of the war, was about one million short of the actual toll. In his study Overmans researched only military deaths, his project did not investigate civilian expulsion deaths; he merely noted the difference between the 2.2 million dead estimated in the 1958 demographic study, of which 500,000 have so far have been verified.He found that German military deaths from areas in Eastern Europe were about 1.444 million, and thus 334,000 higher than the 1.1 million figure in the 1958 demographic study, lacking documents available today included the figures with civilian deaths. Overmans believes this will reduce the number of civilian deaths in the expulsions. Overmans further pointed out that the 2.225 million number estimated by the 1958 study would imply that the casualty rate among the expellees was equal to or higher than that of the military, which he found implausible.

Quote

The German government still maintains that the figure of 2-2.5 million expulsion deaths is correct. In 2005 the German Red Cross Search Service put the death toll at 2,251,500 but did not provide details for this estimate.

And 14 million expelled is the total figure for expulsions from all the countries, it even includes the Germans who already "settled" on conquered land and the relased POWs. At best you could get only half of that from new Polish territories, which is 7 million (and I belive this is the figure which includes POWs) which, compared to 80 million Germans in pre-war Germany, doesn't really sound that bad. Compare to over 6 million Polish civilians killed by Germans during WW2.
But hey, everyone belives their own country nationalist propaganda.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 04:34:09 pm

I'll use the accurate terminology, thanks. Preußen, Pommern, Schlesien, and so forth are Eastern Germany. Vorpommern-Berlin-Brandenburg-Sachsen area is Central Germany.

This is the first time ever I actually meet a person so crazy to actually consider parts of other countries their rightful clay (>Schlesien), apart of myself of course.
But then, I am joking. I don't know if you are.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 06:58:48 pm

Germany, Italy and Japan were on the offensive and the UK on the defensive, France having been knocked out of the war and the USSR likewise on the defensive. I don't know what more you expect the UK could've done

>We didin't listen to stupid Polacks when there was time
>HURR DURR WE WERE ON DEFENSIVE THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on November 16, 2016, 07:11:46 pm

Then please, enlighten us with your wisdom and tell us what the allies could have done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 16, 2016, 07:58:36 pm

ITT: War crime and 5 crazy ethnic cleansings you probably haven't heard of , obligatory nazi scapegoats and clay reclamation initiatives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 07:59:48 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 07:03:28 pm

>We didin't listen to stupid Polacks when there was time
>HURR DURR WE WERE ON DEFENSIVE THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO

Every mistake in the past is rendered stupid with the benefit of hindsight. The French and British agenda explicitly included avoiding a world war; there would have been no way to avoid such a world war by launching an attack. Moreover the war-weary populations wouldn't allow their leaders to do so, especially before rearmament had been completed - nor did high command want to launch an attack before reasonable rearmament. If troops were withdrawn from across the vast Anglo-French Empires and sent to fight Germany, that meant their territories were undefended and open to Italian or Japanese attacks. If they attacked unprepared, they would have a much higher chance of being defeated, than if they pursued a defensive strategy and levied the vastly superior resources of their Empires to guarantee victory. Not knowing the nature of modern warfare having changed from the static nightmare of WWI, this all went down the toilet with Dunkirk and the fall of France.
Look at it this way, if the allies had left their fortifications and attacked Germany, with the attack stalling and causing the Italians and Japanese to strike the allies and cut off their supplies, forcing their surrender - we'd chastise them for attacking unprepared and leaving their defences wide open.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 08:03:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:35:29 pm

Try a ten-foot pole.

I'm not Napoleon. And also that would not work as a joke about the German army.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 06:36:30 pm

I'll use the accurate terminology, thanks. Preußen, Pommern, Schlesien, and so forth are Eastern Germany. Vorpommern-Berlin-Brandenburg-Sachsen area is Central Germany.

Germany is the Bundesrepublik. There's no disputing that. If you consider Silesia to be German, you're a revisionist of the worst kind - a shame to Germany and its people, and a danger to Europe and its peoples. You're essentially placing yourself outside the bounds of civil society.

But okay, convince me: What definition of 'Germany' do you use that a Polish-inhabited, Polish-governed and recognized-as-Polish area is considered German? What does your definition say about the status of, oh, Alsace and Lorraine, or maybe Königsberg? What about the Baltics, maybe?

Spoiler: Or maybe Nice? (click to show/hide)

(http://sprachlos-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1228-297x300.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 16, 2016, 08:48:27 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 08:03:29 pm

But okay, convince me: What definition of 'Germany' do you use that a Polish-inhabited, Polish-governed and recognized-as-Polish area is considered German? What does your definition say about the status of, oh, Alsace and Lorraine, or maybe Königsberg? What about the Baltics, maybe?

Spoiler: Or maybe Nice? (click to show/hide)

(http://sprachlos-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1228-297x300.jpg)

all of that is germany

so is the rest of the world

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 16, 2016, 08:52:08 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 08:03:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:35:29 pm

Try a ten-foot pole.

I'm not Napoleon. And also that would not work as a joke about the German army.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on November 16, 2016, 06:36:30 pm

I'll use the accurate terminology, thanks. Preußen, Pommern, Schlesien, and so forth are Eastern Germany. Vorpommern-Berlin-Brandenburg-Sachsen area is Central Germany.

Germany is the Bundesrepublik. There's no disputing that. If you consider Silesia to be German, you're a revisionist of the worst kind - a shame to Germany and its people, and a danger to Europe and its peoples. You're essentially placing yourself outside the bounds of civil society.

But okay, convince me: What definition of 'Germany' do you use that a Polish-inhabited, Polish-governed and recognized-as-Polish area is considered German? What does your definition say about the status of, oh, Alsace and Lorraine, or maybe Königsberg? What about the Baltics, maybe?

Spoiler: Or maybe Nice? (click to show/hide)

(http://sprachlos-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1228-297x300.jpg)

Silesia was part of the HRE though, once...... before it got eaten by Bohemia or somethng. Ignore me, I'm a silly American.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 09:47:24 pm

Being a part of the HRE =/= Germany
Bohemia itself was a part of the HRE, so were the low countries and northern Italy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on November 16, 2016, 11:40:17 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on November 16, 2016, 08:03:29 pm

But okay, convince me: What definition of 'Germany' do you use that a Polish-inhabited, Polish-governed and recognized-as-Polish area is considered German? What does your definition say about the status of, oh, Alsace and Lorraine, or maybe Königsberg? What about the Baltics, maybe?

Ooh, ooh, pick me.  I choose...D - all of the above, plus the Siebenburgen for good measure. And you'd better not forget to ensure territorial continuity, in the name of security.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on November 17, 2016, 01:28:03 am

Cordoba rightful Moorish land

Spainese just go

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 17, 2016, 01:53:43 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 06:58:48 pm

But whatever the Allies knew, US Holocaust historian David Wyman has questioned whether they could have done more to stop the mass murder. Leaders have often been accused of failing to respond quickly enough to the news. Some historians such as Wyman argue that moves like bombing the gas chambers of Auschwitz would have lessened the number of deaths, but others say it would have had no effect on the Nazi genocide. Large-scale rescue operations were considered but it was not clear to policymakers how this could be achieved.

Germany, Italy and Japan were on the offensive and the UK on the defensive, France having been knocked out of the war and the USSR likewise on the defensive. I don't know what more you expect the UK could've done
[/quote]
This. It's rather easy to say 'more could have been done'. The Allies (USSR) included, did what they could to win the war. There is no telling whether they could have efficiently helped or lessened the genocide. This is just wishful thinking, you can't expect a big rescue operation in the middle of the German Reich when the rest of the world was threatened.

As for one thing that could have been done, it's accepting the Jewish immigrants. Hundreds of thousands of them from Germany were not accepted in any of the western countries, knowing well that they were oppressed back home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 17, 2016, 03:45:42 am

Guys could you please cool down your nationalisms a bit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 03:47:11 am

WILNO AND LWÓW RIGHTFUL POLISH CLAY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 17, 2016, 05:45:00 am

Quote from: Kot on November 17, 2016, 03:47:11 am

WILNO AND LWÓW RIGHTFUL POLISH CLAY

You mean, Poland - part of Russia  :P ( just kidding)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 06:30:31 am

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! Git out vatnik reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! Putin shill reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 17, 2016, 06:37:45 am

Oh! Oh! I love this game! Can I play too?

Let's see... Where to begin... Okay, firstly the entire Baltics is obviously Swedish together with those "German" enclaves and Pommerania (fun fact: Vorpommern doesn't actually Nearer Pommerania, it's actually a mistranslation of the Swedish name "Vår-Pommern", "Our Pommerania! Don't believe the German propaganda). Finland and Norway, obviously, is Swedish as well. Russia was founded by Swedish settlers, so it's ours. So was Ukraine! Our Rutabagas will cover the Donau Plains! Now, the Danish kings who conquered England was actually of Swedish lineage too, so England is Swengland, and since the swenvasion of England is the basis for the UK, all of it is Swedish also. Only tru facts here people.

The Burgundians where from Bornholm, so Burgundy is Swedish. The langobards/lombards where from Scania, so Italy is Swedish. The Goths were originally Geats, so Crimea-and-surroundings is Swedish, together with Spain and Bulgaria. The last Roman emperor was a Goth, so the entire Roman Empire at it's biggest is obviously also Swedish.

...I feel as if I'm forgetting something, but I'll stop here. Are we feeling silly yet?

Quote from: Kot on November 16, 2016, 06:35:29 pm

Try a ten-foot pole.

Best pun though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 06:49:42 am

Whole Russia is ours, we conquered it. Germany was Prussia and Prussians were Polish vassals. Sweden is Polish because our king was also a king of Sweden, we also lay claim to any clay claimed by Sweden. France is ours due to the same reason. America wouldnt exist if not for us. Also, there's a saying that any clay your country soldier steps on is your rightful clay, so basically nearly the whole world applies.
Also, Ukraine (Ukrop go home), Lithuania, Belarus and so on are made-up states that should be part of Polish Commonwealth. Brits betrayed us so we may as well conquer them as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 17, 2016, 07:01:27 am

Quote from: Kot on November 17, 2016, 06:49:42 am

Sweden is Polish because our king was also a king of Sweden

Oh right! I knew I had forgot stuff. Poland is Swedish because it was at one time ruled by a Swede and a Swedish dynasty. In fact, Poland doesn't actually mean Land of the Poles, which one might think, but it's actually Swedish for "På Land", meaning "On land", which is where Poland is located. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 07:25:41 am

No, Sweden is Polish because at one time King of Poland was also a King of Sweden but he got dethroned so Swedes can no longer have any claims on Poland while Poles can have claims on Sweden.
Sorry Swedes, you got rid of him by yourself and due to that forefited all your claims to Poland, which is precisely what we will conquer you for. You were supposed to be Polish clay.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 17, 2016, 09:07:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 09:47:24 pm

Being a part of the HRE =/= Germany
Bohemia itself was a part of the HRE, so were the low countries and northern Italy

Like I said, silly American.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on November 17, 2016, 09:28:05 am

Milosevic famously said that any land where Serb bones have been buried is Serbian clay, and they've got an extensive diaspora.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 17, 2016, 11:13:35 am

Quote from: Kot on November 17, 2016, 07:25:41 am

No, Sweden is Polish because at one time King of Poland was also a King of Sweden but he got dethroned so Swedes can no longer have any claims on Poland while Poles can have claims on Sweden.
Sorry Swedes, you got rid of him by yourself and due to that forefited all your claims to Poland, which is precisely what we will conquer you for. You were supposed to be Polish clay.

Why, Sir! Never! He forfeited his rightful claim when he tried to remove lutherans from premises, against the conditions he had been given when he took the throne. Further, the matter must be considered as thoroughly and decidedly settled at Stångebro, the old fashioned way. Supposed clay and claims must be considered void after cannon and sword has had their say, for just how would the world be like if it didn't? It would be a strange and unnatural world, Sir, unnatural! _Smashing! However, master Sigismund must have his due of recognition for standing up to his claim, and doing his damndest to take it. He lost, but he could have won. Such is the hazard, and the only bad king is the one that did not play the die he was given. I propose a toast! To the king who tried!
The only true claim is the clay on which you stand after the cannon has gone silent.

Quote from: smjjames on November 17, 2016, 09:07:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2016, 09:47:24 pm

Being a part of the HRE =/= Germany
Bohemia itself was a part of the HRE, so were the low countries and northern Italy

Like I said, silly American.

Europe is a strange, strange place. Well, so are a lot of places, but 'never before in the field of human clay exchange, has so many little bits been horriphically bled over by so many for so long.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 17, 2016, 12:22:06 pm

That's dumb. Clovis was Belgian, so France,  Germany and all are Belgians. The UK should still be French (so Belgian) via the Norman conquest,  so the US is rightful Belgian soil. The Poles are just caretaker of the Belgian lebensraum,  and the Swedes can go build Ikea furniture on the moon or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 17, 2016, 12:37:57 pm

The moon, a fortress of flat-pack furniture, family cars, guns and forced neutering. Delaware, Africa and the Carribean didn't work out, at length. The moon seems like a wiser investment, all things considered.

Of course, the Americans are the ones that got there first with the flag, but that is nothing some stubborness can't remedy. _{Avlägsna burgare från lokalerna!!} *accordion*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 01:23:32 pm

I would like to mention that Poles were the first on the moon obviously. This, of course, wasn't so simple since Poland can't into space but apparently can into moon, but due to severe involvement of hellish powers and such. In any case, Twardowski was first and you can suck our ten-feet pole.

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 17, 2016, 11:13:35 am

The only true claim is the clay on which you stand after the cannon has gone silent.

The cannon never went silent, we were just... reloading... for a short while. And you went away.
So we clearly won by walkover.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on November 17, 2016, 01:39:02 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 17, 2016, 01:23:32 pm

I would like to mention that Poles were the first on the moon obviously. This, of course, wasn't so simple since Poland can't into space but apparently can into moon, but due to severe involvement of hellish powers and such. In any case, Twardowski was first and you can suck our ten-feet pole.

Quote

severe involvement of hellish powers

What would Jan Paweł say?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 01:41:06 pm

I like cream cakes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 17, 2016, 01:51:36 pm

Everyone knows that the Europe was founded by the USA in 2341, when the advent of cheaply available time travel for the masses led to an existential crisis, and a Republican victory. The Swedes were an unfortunate byproduct.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 02:23:12 pm

Swedes are nuclear waste.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on November 17, 2016, 02:32:26 pm

Montrump Doctrine: All land on earth is to be kept free of hostile alien influence. Any and all measures necessary to ensure this are justified.

America rightful heirs to British Empire, Canada, Australia, India rightful American clay

Germany, Italy, Japan too
Poland still under USSR control if USA not intervene; new state of Poeland. France liberated by USA and British commonwealth, also American clay

China freed of Japan by American arms, South America already had America in name, Russia security risk, Africa to cure racism

Edit: Actually, read a book called 'The Art of Soviet Cooking'. Still haven't finished it yet but damn is it interesting. Ethnicity and foods and how the Soviet Union treated it's minorities based on the time.

(also Russia gives everyone equal opportunity to die for motherland)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 17, 2016, 03:11:29 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on November 17, 2016, 02:32:26 pm

Poland still under USSR control if USA not intervene; new state of Poeland.

Git the fuck out Clinton

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 17, 2016, 03:15:59 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 17, 2016, 02:23:12 pm

Swedes are nuclear waste.

And a green, glowing, crackling flood of it is is brewing, preparing to lap at the shores of the Baltic, overflow them, and scorch the lands beyond. Pouring from the heavens, burning and poisoning all that it strikes. One could call it a torrent. A Deluge, perhaps.  :P

Quote from: martinuzz on November 17, 2016, 01:51:36 pm

Everyone knows that the Europe was founded by the USA in 2341, when the advent of cheaply available time travel for the masses led to an existential crisis, and a Republican victory. The Swedes were an unfortunate byproduct.

Real life Dragon Break confirmed. Bhutan, land of the Thunder Dragon, stood outside the circle, outside all that was and was not, at the same time. All clay is Bhutan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 11:34:10 am

Poland has changed it's stateform from democracy to theorcratic monarchy.
This saturday, Jesus Christ has been officially crowned as King of Poland.

This was attempted twice before, in 1997, and in 2000, but at that time, the ceremony was not graced by the prescence of the prime minister, nor did it have the blessing of the Catholic Church. Now however, the prime minister was present, and the church has given it's official blessing to the ceremony. So Jesus is now King of Poland.

inb4 Deus vult

EDIT: the Bible may need to be revised, to see if everything Jesus said is politically correct. We all know how things you said in the past can haunt a head of state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 19, 2016, 11:38:08 am

...Does that make Poland the bigger or lesser partner in a Personal Union with Judea?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 19, 2016, 11:48:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 11:34:10 am

Poland has changed it's stateform from democracy to theorcratic monarchy.
This saturday, Jesus Christ has been officially crowned as King of Poland.

This was attempted twice before, in 1997, and in 2000, but at that time, the ceremony was not graced by the prescence of the prime minister, nor did it have the blessing of the Catholic Church. Now however, the prime minister was present, and the church has given it's official blessing to the ceremony. So Jesus is now King of Poland.

inb4 Deus vult

EDIT: the Bible may need to be revised, to see if everything Jesus said is politically correct. We all know how things you said in the past can haunt a head of state.

April 1st jokes should go on April 1st ;P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 19, 2016, 11:59:12 am

This isin't a joke though. This is an actual tradition in Poland. There's a reason this is a thing. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_the_King_(%C5%9Awiebodzin))
Remember, we once married Poland to Baltic sea. Like, for real.

Quote from: scriver on November 19, 2016, 11:38:08 am

...Does that make Poland the bigger or lesser partner in a Personal Union with Judea?

DEUS VULT! (http://i.imgur.com/d5vxpai.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 12:11:59 pm

Well, shit, with Jesus on the throne... Glory to Poland, and the rightful King of Kings. I can think of worse rulers. Gott mit Uns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 05:32:12 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on November 19, 2016, 11:48:35 am

April 1st jokes should go on April 1st ;P

That was my first reaction too.
But it's no joke.

I don't get it though. I thought Poland wanted less refugees / immigants. But now, they're likely to be flooded with millions of west-african catholics who want to live in the Kingdom of Jesus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 19, 2016, 05:54:38 pm

I, for one, welcome our new Heavenly overlords.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 19, 2016, 05:57:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 11:34:10 am

Poland has changed it's stateform from democracy to theorcratic monarchy.
This saturday, Jesus Christ has been officially crowned as King of Poland.

This was attempted twice before, in 1997, and in 2000, but at that time, the ceremony was not graced by the prescence of the prime minister, nor did it have the blessing of the Catholic Church. Now however, the prime minister was present, and the church has given it's official blessing to the ceremony. So Jesus is now King of Poland.

inb4 Deus vult

EDIT: the Bible may need to be revised, to see if everything Jesus said is politically correct. We all know how things you said in the past can haunt a head of state.

Maybe it's just me being an atheist (or just non-religious), but... huh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 06:03:19 pm

Apparently Poland already had a queen: In the 17th century, the Polish King Jan Kazimierz declared that the holy virgin Mary would henceforth be the queen of Poland.

Sounds a bit Freudian, thinking on that. So if Maria is Queen, and Jesus is King, he must have married his mother like Oedipus. Eww. The perv.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 19, 2016, 07:10:17 pm

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P2Pr6kUxtA) (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbIryplqUI) which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHY4lYTufiw), which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WoMmBczJU) says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.



Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 19, 2016, 07:22:25 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 19, 2016, 07:10:17 pm

Spoiler: long post on the history of Poland (click to show/hide)

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P2Pr6kUxtA) (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbIryplqUI) which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHY4lYTufiw), which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WoMmBczJU) says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.

Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

Lol, it's okay. :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 07:29:18 pm

Could be worse. A shadow of a great, external threat is preferable to watching your country effectively rot down around you from the inside. Helplessly, because the counter-rotters would be liable to just burn it instead. One of these days, I will read the newspaper and rupture a major blood vessel out of sheer frustration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 19, 2016, 07:54:09 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 19, 2016, 07:10:17 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P2Pr6kUxtA) (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbIryplqUI) which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHY4lYTufiw), which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30WoMmBczJU) says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.

Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE

Title: Re: The glorious and idealistic Polish nationalist ramblings thread
Post by: Kot on November 19, 2016, 08:08:04 pm

Sadly, we aren't immune to that either. The Polish nationalism is slowly picking up again, but after the war Poland was... in bad shape, let's say.
It was actually a master move by Stalin. First, majority of Polish upper class was killed by either Nazis (_{^{AUSCHWITZ KURWA!}} (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3JXCiWVCcg)) or Soviets (_{^{KATYŃ KURWAA!}} (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp8mjZGpuy4)) and the promising young people usually died in various uprisings (_{^{WARSZAWA KURWAAA!!}} (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnXwxrUZQ4U&t=7s)).
Then, we had half of our country cut and given a bit of German clay. Various resettlement ensued now. Poland was fucked in ass by not getting any war reparations, and we were made to look at Germany as our eternal enemy, instead of Russia. Then, we had our culture repressed even more than we ever did. Seriously, Soviets did better job at this than Kulturkampf, Imperial Russia, Nazis and everyone else ever.

But, as I said, we're picking up again. It varies from the week to week, but things are slowly but noticeably getting better (if you told a Pole 30 years ago that Poland is going to be about the same as any western country when it comes to development (I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT WE HAVE INTERNET AND SHIT), he would laugh his ass off and tell you to write fantasy books). I have my own snowflake theories on how Poland could get unfucked, but those are mine and are proably shit. In any case, Poland not getting cucked depends on three factors:
1. We need to work with Germans, which, as opposed to Russians, can be reasoned with.
2. We need to be allied with America, which gets us in a comfortable enough position to not get rolled over... but that might be hard these days.
3. We need to work against Russia. Russia is literally the biggest threat, but also proably the biggest chance for Poland. Sufficently threatened Baltics and other post-Soviet states might consider that accepting Polish freedoms (of course, more in line of close CONSENSUAL (we're here to save the day, not blast it to hell) alliance rather than becoming Poland, we're past that) and whatnot might be better idea than getting nommed by Russia... again.
Of course, we still have internal problems to fully sort out, but if Putin continues to Putin things (Like suspiciously tanned bulky "local indigenous peoples" with military behaviour, Russian equipment and asian features) where they don't belong our safest bet will be to do what we did always - be a shield to the West, bring civilization to the East, and hope like hell that this fucking goddamn time we won't be sold by our allies. (_{^{JAŁTA KURWAAA!!!}} (https://youtu.be/21VULbwDs5o?t=25))
Oh, and also hope that Muslim takeover of Europe will prove to be a meme in the end. Would be a very ironic and somehow repetetive to protect Germany only to get backstabbed by Sharia Union.

Partially makes me want for this Polandball (http://i.imgur.com/LtvBQFq.jpg) to come true and make the crazy dudes down south realize that there is a reason why  Europeans were the dominant power for looong, looong time.

ITT: Nationalist ramblings of a deranged Pole. Also, muffled shouts can be heard off in the distance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 19, 2016, 08:31:01 pm

Well, if Trump has his way, he'll let Putin waltz over. :P Though we still have to wait and see who he picks for Defense Secretary and Secretary of State as that'll likely influence Trumps quantum state of opinion on NATO.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 09:03:20 pm

Hear, hear. In regards to islamism, I can report that things are slowly inching the right way. For one, there are a lot of very harmful sentiments that used to dominate but are now in decline. A few odd years ago, there was an idea that victims of islamic terrorism had to have "earned" it in some way or another, and that a few deaths here and there was "owed" to them for the past actions of mean old Europe. That they were harmless, would eventually integrate, and all would be lovely for as long as no one provoked them. While it did not dominate, that sentiment was quite strong. This year, though, it has practically blown away. You cannot get away with insinuating that ordinary citizens in Europe killed by jihadists must have been asking for it, not in the same way.

There has been a change in the climate overall, lately. Things that used to be unthinkable, unspeakable, if you valued your career, can be stated to a very different sort of response. Immigration, the asylum system, the borders, the rule of law, a lot of subjects that were very difficult to talk about except from a certain angle. I mean, you can even discuss the nation state as something other than a stupid old dinosaur that should die so that we can all become world citizens, free of borders in a global society, etc., in a way that would have been impossible two years ago.
For a long while, politicians, officials and opinion makes has been in horror of expressing or doing anything, anything at all, that could be seen as beneficial to the nationalists, running their errands, accidentally helping their agenda, anything. Jihadism has been a problem for a long time, but nothing concrete was done, and the problem ignored, because it'd be difficult and unpopular and tie them close to a political pariah. Even that attitude is, albeit slowly, blowing away. Not without a fight, to be sure. The idea of there being no problem at all, and it all being agitation from the nationalists to sucker in the plebs (we could call the idea the great Golden Kebab-Calf) just isn't standing up to reality any more.

To bring this post of mine back on the topic (and on that Poland ball), I agree. People of all sorts are far too quick to assume that the whole of Europe would fall in an afternoon to some fifty thousand odd violent, fanatical bandits. Europe as a whole has been through a lot worse, and a lot of it was in ruins the last century. If nothing else, islamist aggression is hardly a novelty (of course, only crusades count towards your bad, horrible awful country score. Invading Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Russia, the Balkans etc. does not), and I find it unlikely that the nappyheads from Daesh or similar will ever be able to shell the gates of Vienna.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 19, 2016, 09:50:13 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 09:03:20 pm

Hear, hear. In regards to islamism, I can report that things are slowly inching the right way. For one, there are a lot of very harmful sentiments that used to dominate but are now in decline. A few odd years ago, there was an idea that victims of islamic terrorism had to have "earned" it in some way or another, and that a few deaths here and there was "owed" to them for the past actions of mean old Europe. That they were harmless, would eventually integrate, and all would be lovely for as long as no one provoked them. While it did not dominate, that sentiment was quite strong. This year, though, it has practically blown away. You cannot get away with insinuating that ordinary citizens in Europe killed by jihadists must have been asking for it, not in the same way.

That's how Poles see west as of right now. You seemed completly fine with that, tbh.

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 09:03:20 pm

There has been a change in the climate overall, lately. Things that used to be unthinkable, unspeakable, if you valued your career, can be stated to a very different sort of response. Immigration, the asylum system, the borders, the rule of law, a lot of subjects that were very difficult to talk about except from a certain angle. I mean, you can even discuss the nation state as something other than a stupid old dinosaur that should die so that we can all become world citizens, free of borders in a global society, etc., in a way that would have been impossible two years ago.
For a long while, politicians, officials and opinion makes has been in horror of expressing or doing anything, anything at all, that could be seen as beneficial to the nationalists, running their errands, accidentally helping their agenda, anything. Jihadism has been a problem for a long time, but nothing concrete was done, and the problem ignored, because it'd be difficult and unpopular and tie them close to a political pariah. Even that attitude is, albeit slowly, blowing away. Not without a fight, to be sure. The idea of there being no problem at all, and it all being agitation from the nationalists to sucker in the plebs (we could call the idea the great Golden Kebab-Calf) just isn't standing up to reality any more.

>Nationalism is bad
I pity the western world for they do not have the perfect messianistic nationalism of "we're better so we're going to save the world and everyone can live in peace" but instead think of it as "we're b etter so we're going to exterminate everyone else so we can live in peace" like some Nazis or something. Being a muslim, black, white, gay, whatever is okay as long as you keep it in your pants and be nice to other people.
If you don't keep it in your pants and aren't nice to other people, you get BTFO.

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 09:03:20 pm

To bring this post of mine back on the topic (and on that Poland ball), I agree. People of all sorts are far too quick to assume that the whole of Europe would fall in an afternoon to some fifty thousand odd violent, fanatical bandits. Europe as a whole has been through a lot worse, and a lot of it was in ruins the last century. If nothing else, islamist aggression is hardly a novelty (of course, only crusades count towards your bad, horrible awful country score. Invading Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Russia, the Balkans etc. does not), and I find it unlikely that the nappyheads from Daesh or similar will ever be able to shell the gates of Vienna.

I'd rather not take the chances. The radical islamists have proven to be horribly underestimated before and might continue to do so. They have an idea which means they have the will to fight, but they aren't stupid. They are ingenious so they build weapons rivaling those of modern armies in a cave, with a box of scraps. They are literally recruiting people from the whole world that had no ties to fanatical Islam before. Daesh even have an online magazine in multitude of languages (Dabiq? I think that's what it's called) which makes all those retards go to them and become "ISIS brides" or whatthefuck was it again. They're scary, they're actually pretty ambigious and the closest thing to Nazis when it comes to being hated. Maybe we will get an Muslim-wide shame-fest like we did with Germany, eh?
Well, as they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And Europe is much different these days. After all, last time we had to save Europes ass at Vienna and look how it worked out for us. Will the Winged PL-01 Concepts come to your help this time?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 19, 2016, 11:25:57 pm

Quote from: Kot on November 19, 2016, 09:50:13 pm

That's how Poles see west as of right now. You seemed completly fine with that, tbh.

Well, that is and was bollocks, beginning to end. It's a shame that it took recent events to highlight it. Of course, the "asking for it" arguement is usually a bloody revolting one, and this is not an exception.

Quote from: Kot on November 19, 2016, 09:50:13 pm

>Nationalism is bad
I pity the western world for they do not have the perfect messianistic nationalism of "we're better so we're going to save the world and everyone can live in peace" but instead think of it as "we're b etter so we're going to exterminate everyone else so we can live in peace" like some Nazis or something. Being a muslim, black, white, gay, whatever is okay as long as you keep it in your pants and be nice to other people.
If you don't keep it in your pants and aren't nice to other people, you get BTFO.

Nazism is one reason, the tally of the colonial era and what that did is another, the Great War is a third... I'd say there is reason to be suspicious about nationalism, or at least "nationalism". Of course, considering it poisonous in its entirety is a very bad idea, and even more so is creating this kind of binary climate where everything that isn't aligned against it is a dangerous motion for it. That equation seem to go "in favour for tighter border control -> nationalist sentiment -> therefore is nationalist -> nationalism is bad, want secret police, labour camps, wars -> person in favour of tighter border control is nationalist and bad or running their errands, thus also bad and/or stupid".

Quote from: Kot on November 19, 2016, 09:50:13 pm

I'd rather not take the chances. The radical islamists have proven to be horribly underestimated before and might continue to do so. They have an idea which means they have the will to fight, but they aren't stupid. They are ingenious so they build weapons rivaling those of modern armies in a cave, with a box of scraps. They are literally recruiting people from the whole world that had no ties to fanatical Islam before. Daesh even have an online magazine in multitude of languages (Dabiq? I think that's what it's called) which makes all those retards go to them and become "ISIS brides" or whatthefuck was it again. They're scary, they're actually pretty ambigious and the closest thing to Nazis when it comes to being hated. Maybe we will get an Muslim-wide shame-fest like we did with Germany, eh?
Well, as they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And Europe is much different these days. After all, last time we had to save Europes ass at Vienna and look how it worked out for us. Will the Winged PL-01 Concepts come to your help this time?

It's not a matter of doing nothing, of course. I just think that Europe is not quite as completely Doomed^tm as a lot of people seem to think. Yes, they are a very resourceful movement, but as of now, they have managed to hold full control of a practically lawless area that has been in a long power vacuum. Knocking over a western nation state would be a very different matter. It'd require a united ultra-islamist power block throughout the middle east in sufficient shape to launch invasions, or at the very least the full support of every single muslim in the west (who'd need to be armed and commanded), neither of which is very likely at all.
They can, and will, continue to cause damage, horrible damage, but it's not likely they will hoist flags off the Reichstag anytime soon, until something very significant changes. Something on the level of them joining an alliance with the Martians.
That is, of course, not a reason to not fight them with all means available.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 20, 2016, 04:54:32 am

Current growth of Muslim population is one %age point per decade. At this rythm, France would get a majority muslim population in... 2440?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 20, 2016, 05:41:49 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 20, 2016, 04:51:26 am

Given what we know about Islamic attitudes toward homosexuality (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law) even in developed countries,

It's actually a bit more involved than that. From what I know, even in those "less-developed" countries, attitudes towards these things differ radically between the urbanized population and the more rural folks (most of whom still practice such "wonderful" things like child marriage, which btw is now getting legalized by Erdogan's party (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mps-turkey-support-bill-allowing-child-rapists-go-free-marry-victim-akp-erdogan-a7425326.html) - amazing to think that just a few years ago, Turkey was thought to be an example of a good Muslim country and a potential EU candidate).

The problem here is that, obviously, the urban people, being generally more well-off, are less likely to be in condition where they would want to emigrate to other countries. And while in the past times, they were the only ones who could afford long-distance trips, but now even the countryside folks can get in on the ride to Europe.

Strong border control still works at thwarting the flow, though, despite what the Elite Liberals might have said a few years ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 20, 2016, 06:23:39 am

There seems to be a trend that while the new generations in 'lesser developed countries' are trending progressive, the same generations (the children and grandchildren of migrants) in Europe are trending conservative. It's like what I posted about a week or two ago (don't remember which thread), where in Morocco, a rainbow parade was held to protest the detention of two girls for kissing each other, with success, while in the Netherlands, LGBT tolerance amongst Moroccan youth is at an all time low. It's a worrisome trend.

That being said, it might not be representative for the entire region. Morocco is one of the more progressive countries there overall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 20, 2016, 06:27:11 am

Hatred of the status quo, probably. In Morocco you can imagine putting an end to all the religiously-fueled bullshit that I'm sure is just as stocked with hypocrisy as everywhere else in the world. In the Netherlands you can imagine Islam as an ideal and thing of purity since the lack of actual establishment means there's no reality to deal with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 20, 2016, 06:45:46 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 20, 2016, 06:27:11 am

Hatred of the status quo, probably. In Morocco you can imagine putting an end to all the religiously-fueled bullshit that I'm sure is just as stocked with hypocrisy as everywhere else in the world. In the Netherlands you can imagine Islam as an ideal and thing of purity since the lack of actual establishment means there's no reality to deal with.

Yeah, that's one of the more important factors, as evident by comparison between Germany's current electoral map:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://orig08.deviantart.net/4069/f/2016/294/9/f/die_schulz_frage___germany_2017_by_federalrepublic-dalr957.png)

and Germany's post-WW2 occupation-country territory map:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Deutschland_Besatzungszonen_1945_1946.png)

As you can see, nationalists are popular in Soviet-occupied areas, and socialists are popular in British-occupied areas. Pro-Atlanticism Merkel is, weirdly enough, popular not only in French, but in USA occupation areas, too, which bucks the trend, but Americans are, as always, a bit of a special case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 20, 2016, 07:23:32 am

It was the Pew research thing. I admit that I just took average population growth number, it migh tbe higher in some countries, and does not include all refugees, so it might be a bit higher in some place. (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/19/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/)

They're forecasting 10% Muslims in 2050 overall in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 20, 2016, 07:40:04 am

Quote from: Sheb on November 20, 2016, 07:23:32 am

They're forecasting 10% Muslims in 2050 overall in Europe.

That doesn't really mean much, because distribution of muslim immigrants historically is highly assymetrical across Europe (As in, there aren't many if at all in the Eastern part). It could mean it's 0,5% in Poland in 2050, and 30% in France.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Funk on November 20, 2016, 09:45:12 am

Quote from: Sheb on November 20, 2016, 07:23:32 am

They're forecasting 10% Muslims in 2050 overall in Europe.

I'd argue that there's a high number of cultural Muslims, men and woman that for cultural and family reasons remain practising Muslims despite being agnostic or atheist them selves.
Remember that in alot of places death or prison is the penalty for apostasy, so there strong family reasons to remain a muslim, at least on paper.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 20, 2016, 09:58:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 20, 2016, 07:40:04 am

0,0% in Poland in 2050

God is a Pole. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocW3fBqPQkU)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 10:57:55 am

Coming to a city near you (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-sabha-idUSKBN13F0PD)

Remember folks, when WW3 was started because of a monkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 20, 2016, 11:03:16 am

Quote from: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 10:57:55 am

Coming to a city near you (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-sabha-idUSKBN13F0PD)

Remember folks, when WW3 was started because of a monkey.

Shouldn't that go in the MidEast thread? Also, this would be hilarious if it weren't such a horrible escalation of nanoscale trigger activation (you know, much thinner than 'hairtrigger').

Though I guess it's Europe in the semse that Libya is on the coast of the Mediterranean, Turkey is included in this thread, it's on the coast of the Mediterranean, Europe is the north coast of the Mediterranean, thus Libya is Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 20, 2016, 11:04:23 am

HARAMBE NO.
DO NOT ENTACT YOUR BLOODY VENEGANCE ON HUMAN RACE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 20, 2016, 11:06:25 am

Bow down before the one you serve.

You're going to get what you deserve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 11:07:57 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 20, 2016, 11:03:16 am

Quote from: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 10:57:55 am

Coming to a city near you (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-sabha-idUSKBN13F0PD)

Remember folks, when WW3 was started because of a monkey.

Shouldn't that go in the MidEast thread? Also, this would be hilarious if it weren't such a horrible escalation of nanoscale trigger activation (you know, much thinner than 'hairtrigger').

Sorry, got confused by recent posters that said Europe is the new MidEast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 20, 2016, 11:10:36 am

Quote from: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 11:07:57 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 20, 2016, 11:03:16 am

Quote from: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 10:57:55 am

Coming to a city near you (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-security-sabha-idUSKBN13F0PD)

Remember folks, when WW3 was started because of a monkey.

Shouldn't that go in the MidEast thread? Also, this would be hilarious if it weren't such a horrible escalation of nanoscale trigger activation (you know, much thinner than 'hairtrigger').

Sorry, got confused by recent posters that said Europe is the new MidEast.

Turkey (which IS in the MidEast) is sometimes included in this thread, so, it's understandable where it gets confusing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 20, 2016, 11:11:49 am

That was back when Turkey still pretended to be a civilized country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on November 20, 2016, 11:18:29 am

Jokes aside, parts of Turkey is physically in Europe so it has a good claim to be in this thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 20, 2016, 11:28:32 am

This is not the Europe thread though, this is the EU thread. Because I dunno what.

Also I'd say the only parts of the Middle East that's less part of the Middle East than Turkey is the North African ones, so..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 20, 2016, 01:17:20 pm

Quote from: Covenant on November 20, 2016, 04:51:26 am

Silverthrone, you seem to be implying that an Islamist 'assault' on Europe would come from without, like some kind of army at the gates, rather than from within.

Why would they need to do that when we're already inviting them in - 'Refugees Welcome!' - and their proportion of the population is rapidly increasing, to thunderous applause? See this video (https://youtu.be/_4F-bv9zTpo) of German politician Dr. Steffi Van Berg say 'in 20 to 30 years, there will no longer be German majorities in our cities ... this is a good thing'.

I, personally, do not think that's a good thing. Given what we know about Islamic attitudes toward homosexuality (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law) even in developed countries, I think LGBT people in Germany should be very concerned about these demographic changes.

For all the talk of us 'inching the right way', I think the situation is more serious than the picture you are painting. And the fact that the media is still so afraid of reporting on these issues makes me have serious doubts about any perceived 'inching' being real at all.

That scenario assumes that every single man, woman and child that are muslim are entirely devoted to the idea of an European Caliphate, and that the over-generous refuge standards that let them in will remain in place unchanged. Even if this hive-mind scenario, along with the borders-remain-wide-open-come-hell-or-high-water scenario, were entirely true, it'd still hinge on a minority toppling the armed nation-state they live in. It can happen. But it cannot happen next thursday afternoon. It'd also require great popular support for the maïve sentiment Dr. Van Berg is expressing, and that support is eroding.
It might not look like it, but there is a shift. The unhealthy relationship towards islamism and hands-off immigration is being challenged, but there are decades of old conventions that are being breached. It will take time, but there are no reason to believe that it will not accelerate, or to believe that it isn't actually real, due to the greater media hesitating to report on such things. Which is not entirely unreasonable of them, since those sorts of reports would get them absolutely thrashed and branded as incurable racists until relatively recently. It isn't out there en masse, being exciting and making memes, but things are changing. Slower than they should, but they are.

Also, I do not know if or how I gave the impression that I do think that it is a good thing. I might have misinterpreted you, but in case I have. I believe islamism belongs in the same category as all other brutal, totalitarian ideologies that has no business being allowed to develop unmolested. Nor is it a good idea to just accept it when half the world wants to move in, and wants to run the new place as they like. Borders needs to be shut, uncompatible people needs to be sent back and movements suppressed. All are hard, difficult things, but they need to be done. However, I do not think there is reason to be hysterical, and think doom in Europe is assured, as punishment for going soft. Doom is only inevitable if we assume that everything will continue in the direction it does now, and I do not think it will, not with the widening cracks in the pseudo-ideology that cements it.

I will be honest, I simply do not like that tone. That I would be "implying" falsehoods to prop up current politics, applauding the demographical development along with Dr. Van Berg or that I would be lying about seeing a shift that is not there. I might be seeing implications and assumtions that are not there, but I do not appreciate being made into a charicature, chirping opinions that are not my own for you to shoot down. Just because I do not think that the forecast is quite as grim as it is often presented, then that does not mean that I think that all is well, and business can keep going as before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 20, 2016, 02:16:01 pm

I see. I think it might have been a misunderstand of tone, all together. I do beg your pardon, and I am glad that it got cleared up. It can be difficult to make clear, these things, and I think it is better to say so.

As for your point, I am in agreement. I think I was far too lax in explaining that both are genuine threats; outwards and inwards. The Vienna reference was rather lazy of me, all things together. It's difficult to not reach for references like that, but they are usually not very helpful. Honestly, with notes compared, I think we are practically in agreement, with the only disagreement being the magnitude of the internal threat, and if the sentiment of Dr. Van Berg is waning or not. And truthfully, it is reasonable to suspect that it isn't; I can only go by what I see, and that does not always give the full picture.
Awfully sorry about the misunderstanding. Happy to see it was a misreading on my part. Standards tend to be rather low online, and I fear I may have conditioned myself to assume the worst. No need to worry, I wasn't attacked, and with it all cleared up, I have no reason to feel that I have. And thank you, not everyone takes the time to explain what they meant like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 20, 2016, 02:52:44 pm

Heh, true. Hence why I do try to speak up if I think I have been trodden on, so to speak. Sorting things like that out is better than the usual result of that sort of misunderstandings, when you end up with a dreary bog of passive-aggressive sniping. _{And thank goodness for prawns, indeed.} I'm glad it's not only me.

I do see your point, and I worry about complacency, as well. Complacency was largely what got us all into this mess in the first place. I think we can see the cracks in it, but on balance, some suspicion and worry is warranted, like you say. Although a few drops of hope can't hurt, either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 21, 2016, 05:35:27 am

Norway police arrested 20 people on suspicion of being members of a pedosexual network, amongst whom a father that has confessed abusing his own children. Vice-Chief of Police Gunnar Floystad says they have 51 suspects, and more arrests are to follow in other parts of the country. According to him, most suspects are highly educated judges and politicians. This is the largest abuse case Norway has ever seen.

The investigation into the network started last year. The men met on the 'dark web', using encryption to avoid detection. While the investigation is ongoing, the police cannot comment further.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/noorse-politie-arresteert-20-verdachten-pedonetwerk-onder-wie-politici~a4419258/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 21, 2016, 06:07:35 am

I wonder if this will go over the border into Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 21, 2016, 11:24:47 am

The British and Spanish are having their usual spat over Gibraltar. (http://www.politico.eu/article/british-navy-fires-warning-shots-at-spanish-vessel-off-gibraltar/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 21, 2016, 12:31:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on November 21, 2016, 05:35:27 am

Norway police arrested 20 people on suspicion of being members of a pedosexual network, amongst whom a father that has confessed abusing his own children. Vice-Chief of Police Gunnar Floystad says they have 51 suspects, and more arrests are to follow in other parts of the country. According to him, most suspects are highly educated judges and politicians. This is the largest abuse case Norway has ever seen.

The investigation into the network started last year. The men met on the 'dark web', using encryption to avoid detection. While the investigation is ongoing, the police cannot comment further.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/noorse-politie-arresteert-20-verdachten-pedonetwerk-onder-wie-politici~a4419258/

Any connection with the British?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on November 21, 2016, 12:43:57 pm

It now got bundled with pizzagate and the fact twitter has been supposedly banning trump support accounts and verified the muslim brotherhood's account on the website.
The account that exposed the cp content and the accounts associated with it got banned in a flash by twitter, but not before it spread, and now /pol/ is flooding twitter with the post and the hashtags.

Shit's getting pretty real in twitter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on November 21, 2016, 12:48:12 pm

Quote from: Covenant on November 21, 2016, 12:37:35 pm

I was actually wondering if it had any connection to all the stuff that's erupting on Twitter today, with 4chan supposedly uncovering hundreds/thousands of accounts on Twitter openly sharing images of children (apparently trending under the topic of 'Twittergate').

Wait, did something actually come of that whole pizzagate thing?

Of all sad words of tongue and pen...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 21, 2016, 01:02:09 pm

Quote from: Covenant on November 21, 2016, 12:54:38 pm

So Twitter banned the whistleblower account and those associated with it, but not the actual paedos themselves?

Doesn't surprise me though. Didn't Twitter recently censor people calling for more women's rights in Saudi Arabia?

Then again... (http://fortune.com/2015/10/07/saudi-prince-twitter-stock/)

Quote from: Baffler on November 21, 2016, 12:48:12 pm

Quote from: Covenant on November 21, 2016, 12:37:35 pm

I was actually wondering if it had any connection to all the stuff that's erupting on Twitter today, with 4chan supposedly uncovering hundreds/thousands of accounts on Twitter openly sharing images of children (apparently trending under the topic of 'Twittergate').

Wait, did something actually come of that whole pizzagate thing?

Of all sad words of tongue and pen...

There seems to be enough there that lots of amateurs are still investigating it. I don't care to expose myself to that kind of sickness, so I can't offer my own opinion. I know that pol and r/conspiracy and a few other places are all looking into it with some fervor.

As for whether this Twitter thing from today is related to that, or something entirely new... who knows.

Twitter may shadowban people who criticize celebrities. Does anybody remember the time Twitter got caught social engineering?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 02:55:07 am

Major political developments in France:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/27khv/status/800610894485061632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New favourite to become French President, Francois Fillon, wants to drag Russia back into the European fold. Stop it sliding towards Asia

Spoiler: 2016 WTF stop doing this (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxxXNNbXcAAev9F.jpg)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/800430226870308866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Francois Fillon, set to pull off stunning upset in French conservative primary tonight, favored fighting ISIL alongside Russia, Iran, Assad

Spoiler: he has also met with Putin in person (click to show/hide)

(http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_9209/w_2048,h_890,c_crop,x_0,y_31/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1390908628/vladimir-poutine-et-francois-fillon-1_4715317.jpg)

Seems like all that Le Pen's Russian support was just a strategic ruse, deflecting all attention from real Putin's candidate.

Is this how the end of Euro-Atlanticism looks like?

EDIT: Apparently, there's also this:

Quote from: Internet

From Fillion's site using Google Translate:
4. A sovereign trade policy that protects our interests
- Reject European decisions going against the economic interests of France as the sanctions against Russia that seriously affect our businesses.
- Propose a new EU / Russia trade partnership that would offer our businesses new opportunities.

So much for "annexation of Crimea will forever alienate Russia from Europe".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2016, 02:58:41 am

Nathan Fillion noooo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 02:55:07 am

Major political developments in France:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/27khv/status/800610894485061632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New favourite to become French President, Francois Fillon, wants to drag Russia back into the European fold. Stop it sliding towards Asia

Spoiler: 2016 WTF stop doing this (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxxXNNbXcAAev9F.jpg)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/800430226870308866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Francois Fillon, set to pull off stunning upset in French conservative primary tonight, favored fighting ISIL alongside Russia, Iran, Assad

Spoiler: he has also met with Putin in person (click to show/hide)

(http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_9209/w_2048,h_890,c_crop,x_0,y_31/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1390908628/vladimir-poutine-et-francois-fillon-1_4715317.jpg)

Seems like all that Le Pen's Russian support was just a strategic ruse, deflecting all attention from real Putin's candidate.

Is this how the end of Euro-Atlanticism looks like?

EDIT: Apparently, there's also this:

Quote from: Internet

From Fillion's site using Google Translate:
4. A sovereign trade policy that protects our interests
- Reject European decisions going against the economic interests of France as the sanctions against Russia that seriously affect our businesses.
- Propose a new EU / Russia trade partnership that would offer our businesses new opportunities.

So much for "annexation of Crimea will forever alienate Russia from Europe".

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 05:09:59 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

Russia has an economy the size of Italy, or at least, that's what I've heard, so I don't know exactly how would Russia be "overlording" over Europe, which has, what, five times the population and even more of that in terms of financial and industrial advantages?

I'm genuinely curious about it, because I thought that economy was the deciding factor in these sort of power games... but apparently, it's not?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 05:13:49 am

In the mean time:
Alt-Right Party AFD of Germany is gaining power and popularity, while the media is unable to work against them (Lügenpresse argument...)
So america, you might have your trump, but here in germany we will have a similar party ruling soon if they are not stopped by the leftists parties... Please help germany to not succumb to neo-fascism...

It is interesting to see that the alt-right followers of Trump actually used the term Lügenpresse (lie media) while chanting Trump Heil...
There is an international movement of fascists, and the hippies of the left are to obsessed with political correctness to do anything about it.
Same problem in France, same stuff in the Brexit debate, Austria has their share of racisist in parliament. Netherlands and Hungary have had their  alt right presidents for a while now, Scandinavia is struck with identitary movements as well. When will people wake up to this. Seriously it is NOT fun to be ruled by autocrats, I am german, believe me when I say it. Dictators will kill their opposition, and those they deem fit to pay for their "New Reforms". The autobahn was built this way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 22, 2016, 05:16:46 am

Quote from: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 05:13:49 am

Netherlands and Hungary have had their  alt right presidents for a while now

Wut? We don't have an alt right president. The furthest Wilders has come was his party being an 'coalition endorsing opposition party' of a government that fell long before it's term was due.
His party's popularity is trending up again though.

(We do have a liberal-right president. But his party is not alt right, it's the traditional liberal's party VVD, which is almost as far away from being the alt right as the leftist elite. The VVD is the party for the rich elite.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 05:19:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 22, 2016, 05:16:46 am

Quote from: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 05:13:49 am

Netherlands and Hungary have had their  alt right presidents for a while now

Wut? We don't have an alt right president. The furthest Wilders has come was his party being an 'coalition endorsing opposition party' of a government that fell long before it's term was due.
His party's popularity is trending up again though.

I see the term "alt-right" is rapidly achieving the "SJW" status of a mostly meaningless curse word that puts all the things you hate as a part of a single Great Coalition of Evil. Quite impressive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:27:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 05:09:59 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

Russia has an economy the size of Italy, or at least, that's what I've heard, so I don't know exactly how would Russia be "overlording" over Europe, which has, what, five times the population and even more of that in terms of financial and industrial advantages?

I'm genuinely curious about it, because I thought that economy was the deciding factor in these sort of power games... but apparently, it's not?

I did not say that. Thank you for reminding me about the wisdom of avoiding the shitpost.

Perceived strength is more important than actual strength.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 05:30:55 am

Wasnt wilders in a position of power and how would you call his movement if not fascistoid or alt right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 22, 2016, 05:33:36 am

Nope, technically Wilders was never in a position of power, his party has never been in government coalition, always in opposition. Although, like I said, there was one government coalition that relied on Wilders' opposition party giving support to it's plans to achieve majority. What I meant with a 'coalition endorsing opposition party'. Which didn't last long, as that government fell and we had new elections (in which Wilders' party lost a huge amount of votes and went back to being a marginal party for a while. It's been trending up again since the refugee crisis and Paris attacks).

And yes, his movement is populist alt right. I never said it wasn't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 05:45:12 am

I am glad your beautiful country has not succumbed to the forces of wilders.
Thx for clearing that up for me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 22, 2016, 09:34:13 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 22, 2016, 09:24:39 am

'Succumbed to the forces of wilders', christ.

Meanwhile we have Merkel going for a fourth term, ready to flip-flop for the third time about multiculturalism being the best thing since sliced bread.

Given that multiculturalism is so ill-defined a term, that's not surprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2016, 11:24:35 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 02:55:07 am

Major political developments in France:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/27khv/status/800610894485061632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New favourite to become French President, Francois Fillon, wants to drag Russia back into the European fold. Stop it sliding towards Asia

Spoiler: 2016 WTF stop doing this (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxxXNNbXcAAev9F.jpg)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/800430226870308866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Francois Fillon, set to pull off stunning upset in French conservative primary tonight, favored fighting ISIL alongside Russia, Iran, Assad

Spoiler: he has also met with Putin in person (click to show/hide)

(http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_9209/w_2048,h_890,c_crop,x_0,y_31/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1390908628/vladimir-poutine-et-francois-fillon-1_4715317.jpg)

Seems like all that Le Pen's Russian support was just a strategic ruse, deflecting all attention from real Putin's candidate.

Is this how the end of Euro-Atlanticism looks like?

EDIT: Apparently, there's also this:

Quote from: Internet

From Fillion's site using Google Translate:
4. A sovereign trade policy that protects our interests
- Reject European decisions going against the economic interests of France as the sanctions against Russia that seriously affect our businesses.
- Propose a new EU / Russia trade partnership that would offer our businesses new opportunities.

So much for "annexation of Crimea will forever alienate Russia from Europe".

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

It's more that the liberal world order that's been in place since the end of WWII is cracking, for pretty much the same reason all over the place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 01:25:46 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 22, 2016, 11:24:35 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 02:55:07 am

Major political developments in France:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/27khv/status/800610894485061632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New favourite to become French President, Francois Fillon, wants to drag Russia back into the European fold. Stop it sliding towards Asia

Spoiler: 2016 WTF stop doing this (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxxXNNbXcAAev9F.jpg)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/800430226870308866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Francois Fillon, set to pull off stunning upset in French conservative primary tonight, favored fighting ISIL alongside Russia, Iran, Assad

Spoiler: he has also met with Putin in person (click to show/hide)

(http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_9209/w_2048,h_890,c_crop,x_0,y_31/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1390908628/vladimir-poutine-et-francois-fillon-1_4715317.jpg)

Seems like all that Le Pen's Russian support was just a strategic ruse, deflecting all attention from real Putin's candidate.

Is this how the end of Euro-Atlanticism looks like?

EDIT: Apparently, there's also this:

Quote from: Internet

From Fillion's site using Google Translate:
4. A sovereign trade policy that protects our interests
- Reject European decisions going against the economic interests of France as the sanctions against Russia that seriously affect our businesses.
- Propose a new EU / Russia trade partnership that would offer our businesses new opportunities.

So much for "annexation of Crimea will forever alienate Russia from Europe".

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

It's more that the liberal world order that's been in place since the end of WWII is cracking, for pretty much the same reason all over the place.

Nonshitpost: because it isn't based on liberalism in the first place?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 03:54:36 pm

UK seems to be going full Big Brother mode:

Quote from: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/snoopers-charter-theresa-may-online-privacy-investigatory-powers-act-a7426461.html

...

The fact that you’re on this website is – potentially – state knowledge. Service providers must now store details of everything you do online for 12 months – and make it accessible to dozens of public authorities

...

Under the guise of counter-terrorism, the British state has achieved totalitarian-style surveillance powers – the most intrusive system of any democracy in history. It now has the ability to indiscriminately hack, intercept, record, and monitor the communications and internet use of the entire population.

I mean, British government was already kind of creepy, with CCTV cameras everywhere in London, but this is on a whole another level of what-the-fuck shit that is supposed to be reserved for fictional cyberpunk dictators only.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2016, 03:59:41 pm

I forget if the Independent is one of those tabloidish British newspapers. I know the Daily Mail is, but not sure what others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 22, 2016, 04:06:00 pm

It sort of is, there's not a lot of good newspapers left in the UK, but I think it's meant to be one of somewhat better ones in that regard.

The news doesn't surprise me though, the Conservatives have never exactly been pro-internet freedoms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on November 22, 2016, 05:12:17 pm

 Trump is still trying to fight the Scottish wind turbines. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-scottish-wind-farms-231741)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2016, 05:25:59 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on November 22, 2016, 05:12:17 pm

Trump is still trying to fight the Scottish wind turbines. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-scottish-wind-farms-231741)

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on November 22, 2016, 05:12:17 pm

Trump is still trying to fight the Scottish wind turbines. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trump-scottish-wind-farms-231741)

He's going to have to drop that when he gets inaugurated because 'conflicts of interest'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 22, 2016, 05:32:57 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on November 22, 2016, 04:06:00 pm

It sort of is, there's not a lot of good newspapers left in the UK, but I think it's meant to be one of somewhat better ones in that regard.

The news doesn't surprise me though, the Conservatives have never exactly been pro-internet freedoms.

The Guardian, the Times, FT, and the magazines are the dankest newspapers left in the UK (not counting local newspapers, just because I can't say I know them all at all). Print media is becoming second place to digital media, where stuff like the magazines that can cater to a smaller but reliable subscription base readership can stay afloat whilst newspapers sort of dwindle in significance

The Independent was one of the best newspapers in the world (not being sarcastic) until they recently got bought out and "modernized", becoming another buzzfeed. Needless to say its quality declined precipitously in favour of being partisan, hip, edgy and cool

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 05:09:59 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

Russia has an economy the size of Italy, or at least, that's what I've heard, so I don't know exactly how would Russia be "overlording" over Europe, which has, what, five times the population and even more of that in terms of financial and industrial advantages?
I'm genuinely curious about it, because I thought that economy was the deciding factor in these sort of power games... but apparently, it's not?

Money isn't power, power is power
It's also unsurprising that money isn't the deciding factor on the international scale, since on the national scale people are saying money is secondary these days to stuff

whole lot of stuff

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on November 22, 2016, 08:00:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 22, 2016, 05:32:57 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on November 22, 2016, 04:06:00 pm

It sort of is, there's not a lot of good newspapers left in the UK, but I think it's meant to be one of somewhat better ones in that regard.

The news doesn't surprise me though, the Conservatives have never exactly been pro-internet freedoms.

The Guardian, the Times, FT, and the magazines are the dankest newspapers left in the UK (not counting local newspapers, just because I can't say I know them all at all). Print media is becoming second place to digital media, where stuff like the magazines that can cater to a smaller but reliable subscription base readership can stay afloat whilst newspapers sort of dwindle in significance

The Independent was one of the best newspapers in the world (not being sarcastic) until they recently got bought out and "modernized", becoming another buzzfeed. Needless to say its quality declined precipitously in favour of being partisan, hip, edgy and cool

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 05:09:59 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on November 22, 2016, 05:02:20 am

So basically Europe doesn't think America is powerful anymore, so they want Russian overlords?

Russia has an economy the size of Italy, or at least, that's what I've heard, so I don't know exactly how would Russia be "overlording" over Europe, which has, what, five times the population and even more of that in terms of financial and industrial advantages?
I'm genuinely curious about it, because I thought that economy was the deciding factor in these sort of power games... but apparently, it's not?

Money isn't power, power is power
It's also unsurprising that money isn't the deciding factor on the international scale, since on the national scale people are saying money is secondary these days to stuff

whole lot of stuff

Who says money is secondary?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 24, 2016, 09:38:56 am

Nigel Farage is planning on moving to the US, and no, I'm not trolling you guys, honest (http://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-planning-to-move-to-us-ambassador/) :) .

Maybe he'll become the US ambassador to Britian, I dunno. lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 24, 2016, 06:39:43 pm

Pence/Farage fics when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 24, 2016, 06:55:36 pm

I'm feeling pensive about the whole affair. I'm certain it's a far age away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 24, 2016, 07:11:06 pm

Quote from: greatorder on November 24, 2016, 06:56:41 pm

...should someone give Farage the Avatar tattoo on his head?
"When the UK needed him most, he vanished."

When the UK needed him most, he was there 24/7 and helped win the referendum - think what you May, right now he doesn't really have any power to do anything in the UK lol, besides influence anyways, which in the UK would leave him with nothing to do but Gove around. If anything, waving him around like a national Johnson whilst trying to centralize the gov would be inopportune, certainly not a Johnson any Os could accommodate. At least we got rid of Ham on de gov? Let's not Fallon the past though, whilst we Hunt for the best deal. I'm sure we'll find the Write terms, and if not, they'll be a Truss up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 24, 2016, 07:25:05 pm

You are awful LW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 24, 2016, 07:32:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on November 24, 2016, 07:25:05 pm

You are awful LW.

I don't want to Blair any Trumpets here, but really I don't think my posts need to go in the Corbin just yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 24, 2016, 07:37:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 24, 2016, 07:32:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on November 24, 2016, 07:25:05 pm

You are awful LW.

I don't want to Blair any Trumpets here, but really I don't think my posts need to go in the Corbin just yet.

That was code for "please no more" :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 28, 2016, 07:31:34 am

Fillon, a pro-Putinist aiming to take over France, has won the primaries (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-idUSKBN13M001) over a pro-European candidate Juppe, with a massive advantage of 66.5% to Juppe's 33.5 percent of the vote. There doesn't appear to be anyone on the French political scene able to pose a threat to him now, since the only other candidates at the moment are Le Pen (who's even more of a pro-Putinist than Fillon), Hollande, who has popularity rating of 4%, and a bunch of other left-leaning politicians who apparently are going to run separately, thus splitting the left vote.

Quote

Close aides of Hollande have said he will run despite his deep unpopularity. Fillon lacks the broad appeal of the more centrist Juppe and his more radical economic reform plans could give Hollande a peg on which to base his candidacy.

But on Sunday, Hollande's prime minister Manuel Valls for the first time raised the prospect he could challenge Hollande as the Socialists' candidate in the 2017 presidential election, in a further sign of the left's divisions.

Neither of them would get more than 9 percent of the votes in the first round of the presidential election and neither would qualify for the run-off, the Harris Interactive flash poll on Sunday showed.

Both Hollande's former economy minister Emmanuel Macron and leftist firebrand Jean-Luc Melenchon, would do much better, the poll showed. Both on Sunday reaffirmed that they would run in the presidentials and bypass the Socialist party's primaries - guaranteeing a split vote on the left.

Seems like France is about to betray Europe once again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 07:34:36 am

In current year, nationalism equals neo-fascism putinism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 28, 2016, 07:47:31 am

Quote from: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 07:34:36 am

In current year, nationalism equals neo-fascism putinism.

Sure, if you ignore this:

Quote from: Sergarr on November 22, 2016, 02:55:07 am

Major political developments in France:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/27khv/status/800610894485061632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

New favourite to become French President, Francois Fillon, wants to drag Russia back into the European fold. Stop it sliding towards Asia

Spoiler: 2016 WTF stop doing this (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxxXNNbXcAAev9F.jpg)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/800430226870308866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Francois Fillon, set to pull off stunning upset in French conservative primary tonight, favored fighting ISIL alongside Russia, Iran, Assad

Spoiler: he has also met with Putin in person (click to show/hide)

(http://static.lexpress.fr/medias_9209/w_2048,h_890,c_crop,x_0,y_31/w_1520,h_855,c_fill,g_north/v1390908628/vladimir-poutine-et-francois-fillon-1_4715317.jpg)

Seems like all that Le Pen's Russian support was just a strategic ruse, deflecting all attention from real Putin's candidate.

Is this how the end of Euro-Atlanticism looks like?

EDIT: Apparently, there's also this:

Quote from: Internet

From Fillion's site using Google Translate:
4. A sovereign trade policy that protects our interests
- Reject European decisions going against the economic interests of France as the sanctions against Russia that seriously affect our businesses.
- Propose a new EU / Russia trade partnership that would offer our businesses new opportunities.

So much for "annexation of Crimea will forever alienate Russia from Europe".

He's most definitely a Putinist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 28, 2016, 07:53:48 am

...
I'll start preparing the guns and sign up for military reserve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 07:56:41 am

At least hes better looking that our putinist:

(http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/vayrynenjuttu1901MN_uu.jpg)

Väyrynen even found a party of its own, with Donbass cash, while remaining in parliament as member of another. They havent still found a way... or will to kick him out.

Quote from: Kot on November 28, 2016, 07:53:48 am

...
I'll start preparing the guns and sign up for military reserve.

I heard Poland is considering returning concription and mandatory (armed) service?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 28, 2016, 08:03:15 am

Quote from: Kot on November 28, 2016, 07:53:48 am

...
I'll start preparing the guns and sign up for military reserve.

Unlikely to help, what with the new "non-nuclear" weapons research  going on in Russia (that, btw, is now seemingly taking over a whole floor in that secret institute place)... but I guess at least it gives you a better chance of survival.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 08:12:15 am

Quote from: greatorder on November 28, 2016, 08:09:57 am

At this rate, 30 years down the line there'll be a Russia-lead version of the EU.

How? Right now Russia has but some cash to bribe select politicians with. And nukes, lots of nukes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 28, 2016, 08:16:42 am

Quote from: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 08:12:15 am

Quote from: greatorder on November 28, 2016, 08:09:57 am

At this rate, 30 years down the line there'll be a Russia-lead version of the EU.

How? Right now Russia has but some cash to bribe select politicians with. And nukes, lots of nukes.

Same way it gets to install pro-Russian politicians in Western countries - with Russian meme magic brainwashing everyone to serve Russia, abandoning their rational self-interest in favor of "greatness" and "independence".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 08:28:09 am

Also Kot, don't we lack a prepping thread? General Discussion, Life Advice or Creative Projects?  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 28, 2016, 08:32:22 am

The only chance for Poland is to go against Russia, as powerful Russia means no Poland and vice versa, to a lesser extent. Better hope that the Russian industry runs itself aground, as while this would cause unrest. Kaliningrad as new Polish Voivodeship when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 28, 2016, 10:01:30 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 28, 2016, 07:31:34 am

Seems like France is about to betray Europe once again.

While I kinda agree on this, I'm more afraid of MLP, and this stance on Russia might be more due to an attempt to draw votes from the far right (which I find extremely dubious) than a real stance. Fillon was PM before (admittedly, PM don't have much diplomatic powers) and he didn't show much support for Russia (apart from the regular right which tends to like Russia more than the left, as opposed as during the URRS).
On the other hand, MLP has been involved in several stories with Russia and russian banks (maybe overblown).
Overall, the year 2016 hasn't shown me much hope in the way of countering MLP, and I'm pretty sure that Fillon would be a better choice in like 99% of the cases. If it's anything like 2002, the candidate that faces MLP in the second turn will be the winner, and it seems that atm, Fillon is going to be that candidate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on November 28, 2016, 12:02:58 pm

*looks at thread*

*sees people worrying about My Little Pony*

what?!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 28, 2016, 12:07:18 pm

MLP is one of French political parties?
I knew that French people were horrible ever since I learned about WW2, but now it's just ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 29, 2016, 02:02:32 am

My bad, I should have used the whole name. It's indeed Marine Le Pen and not My Little Pony

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 02:24:28 am

Quote from: PanH on November 29, 2016, 02:02:32 am

My bad, I should have used the whole name. It's indeed Marine Le Pen and not My Little Pony

I figured you meant Marie LePen given the context anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 07:33:01 am

Yeah I think people are just joking about the French brony uprising bringing the end to western civilization

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on November 29, 2016, 07:42:13 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-are-not-allowed-to-give-descriptions-of-alleged-criminals-so-as-not-to-sound-racist-a6810311.html

Would someone be so kind as to tell me why this is not so bad as it seems to me? Because I really don't want to believa that Sweden is completely fucked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 29, 2016, 07:48:11 am

Quote from: DreamerGhost on November 29, 2016, 07:42:13 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-are-not-allowed-to-give-descriptions-of-alleged-criminals-so-as-not-to-sound-racist-a6810311.html

Would someone be so kind as to tell me why this is not so bad as it seems to me? Because I really don't want to believa that Sweden is completely fucked.

Grenade attacks dont even make the news any more. Besides the fact that not every city has a no-go zone yet, yes, they're fucked. To fix this, they obviously need more immigrants and asylum seekers, and the further from Asia, the more tolerance points.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 07:49:49 am

Quote from: DreamerGhost on November 29, 2016, 07:42:13 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-are-not-allowed-to-give-descriptions-of-alleged-criminals-so-as-not-to-sound-racist-a6810311.html

Would someone be so kind as to tell me why this is not so bad as it seems to me? Because I really don't want to believa that Sweden is completely fucked.

Sweden may be completely fucked, but at least it's not racist

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 08:26:11 am

I don't see a problem. They are banned from using race and nationality as a descriptor. It doesn't say anything about skin colour.
It just means they will need to start using "black, dark brown, light brown, yellowish brown, brownish yellow, pinkish brownwhite, and purple speckled green" from now on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 08:32:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 08:26:11 am

I don't see a problem. They are banned from using race and nationality as a descriptor. It doesn't say anything about skin colour.
It just means they will need to start using "black, dark brown, light brown, yellowish brown, brownish yellow, pinkish brownwhite, and purple speckled green" from now on.

martinuzz, you just failed the racist test

Quote

The letter specifies that, for everyday crimes such as burglary, basic information such as ethnicity, nationality, skin colour and height should not be given.

Ur racist
t. Sweden

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 29, 2016, 08:55:29 am

I feel like no actually read the papers. The police is still going to register height, skin color, ethnicity and so on, of all the suspects. What it's not going to do, for the light crimes concerned, is to communicate it to the public. Now, while it is ridiculous, it is not as ridiculous as you're making it. I'm not even sure our police is communicating anything about that here either.

Also, I totally need to see that video now :D wheelchair savior

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 08:58:41 am

This is a police broadcast. The suspect in the recent killing spree in Stockholm is still at large. We ask of the public to be alert, and report any sightings to the police. The suspect looks like a human. So if you see a human, please call the police.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on November 29, 2016, 09:10:24 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:03:18 am

Do you think the public doesn't have a right to know if a disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by certain groups? Wouldn't such information probably affect public policy on things such as how many refugees the Swedish public want to admit to their country? The recent OSU attack in America (11 hospitalized), for example, was apparently done by a Somali refugee. I'd be very surprised if some people in that area didn't move from a welcoming position to a more security-conscious one as a result of such events.

And here's the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-pG4oiih3A). Wheelchair saviour is at 6 minutes.

Definitely, this letter shouldn't have ever come to pass. However, I'm more concerned about it hindering police's actions for getting witnesses and such than to confirm whatever the people are already thinking.

Thanks for the video, I'm going to watch it now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 09:14:46 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:03:18 am

Do you think the public doesn't have a right to know if a disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by certain groups?

Ignorance is bliss, Swedes do not deserve to see what has become of their country, I would not wish that on my best friend or greatest enemy

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:03:18 am

Wouldn't such information probably affect public policy on things such as how many refugees the Swedish public want to admit to their country?

It probably wouldn't, Sweden is Sweden for a reason

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:03:18 am

The recent OSU attack in America (11 hospitalized), for example, was apparently done by a Somali refugee. I'd be very surprised if some people in that area didn't move from a welcoming position to a more security-conscious one as a result of such events.
And here's the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-pG4oiih3A). Wheelchair saviour is at 6 minutes.

Fucking based wheelchair warrior
Reminds me of how the Swedish police couldn't confront rioting migrants because they were throwing rocks at them. The Western world is running 1984 and Brave New World, Sweden is running Demolition Man where their society had become so peaceful they forgot what danger was lol

In german news:
A self-styled 'pickup artist' has taken it upon himself to teach Syrian migrants who want to integrate into German society the best ways to talk to women. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/737642/Syrian-Migrants-classes-women-Mr-Flirt-Germany-Horst-Wenzel-refugees)

Quote

Horst Wenzel, known as ‘Mr Flirt’, launched a workshop called ‘How to fall in love in Germany” following the huge numbers of migrants arriving in the nation.
Mr Flirt’s tips are designed to help asylum seekers adjust to the German way of life by winning the hearts of women across the country.
One Syrian refugee on the course claimed: “Some German women are a bit racist towards us.
“They don’t know how refugees think or how they are living.”
Last week Mr Flirt held his third class and with almost a dozen people already attending, news of the workshop is slowly getting around.
Mr Flirt suggested taking a woman to a theatre or a cinema for a first date, and avoiding cliches when it comes to compliments.
The classes have been well received by many of the refugees who have attended so far.
Kadib al Ban said: "We are really benefiting from the class - the teacher is telling us how German women think, how to talk to them and understand their traditions."
Another participant said: "There are a lot of differences, not only the culture and religion — we just don't have this total freedom at home”.
It’s not just flirting tips that Wenzel specialises in - he’s also teaching the class about sex, which has apparently caused some embarrassment.

Why would someone leave safety, at risk of losing all their wealth or even their life? Sex of course

Quote

Still, he said, "I'd love to marry a German woman and live with her. She could help me with the language, and she knows the place and the laws much better than I do." Some German women were receptive to the idea. Jasmin Olbrich, having a quick lunch of French fries at a food truck outside the educational center, said she liked the Middle Eastern looks and complained that German men "drink too much beer, watch way too much soccer and are just so white!"

Germany, YES (https://www.mail.com/int/entertainment/lifestyle/4789366-germanys-mr-flirt-teaches-refugees-to-pick-up-wome.html#.1264-stage-mostviewed1-1)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 29, 2016, 09:24:20 am

Not giving information about criminals is retarded.
1. If you're convicted, your right to privacy is partially forefit anyway, anyone should be able to know you're a murderer or rapist (cue sexual offender song) or you keep stealing shit from work.
2. It's not racism if it's true. If more black and hispanic people commit crimes in New York (sorry for Amerixample but I recently saw statistics for it and I don't know them for Europe)  it doesn't mean there is a problem with black populace but rather the black populace has a problem and something should be done to help them not end up as criminals instead of trying to cover it up and pretend it's not happening - thats pretty stupid tbh, and I can totally see people seeing every unspecified criminal as black muslim midget from Somalia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ukrainian Ranger on November 29, 2016, 09:26:57 am

Quote from: DreamerGhost on November 29, 2016, 07:42:13 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/swedish-police-are-not-allowed-to-give-descriptions-of-alleged-criminals-so-as-not-to-sound-racist-a6810311.html

Would someone be so kind as to tell me why this is not so bad as it seems to me? Because I really don't want to believa that Sweden is completely fucked.

Yay! This is awesome. What a way to "solve" the problem! Why try to reduce crime rate in some social group? You can pretend this group doesn't exist!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 09:33:58 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:27:48 am

That German woman saying German men are 'just so white', fucking hell. That self-abnegation, that hatred of your own culture and history. It's like the great rot within western culture, starting in an innocuous patch on the trunk and slowly spreading out to every branch. Eventually the tree will be weak enough that it'll topple in the next storm.

You gotta admit 200 years from now they'll make some dank stories about this era, expect infinite puns on stockholm syndrome and the white devil

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:27:48 am

I like to imagine what I'd do were I mayor of a dwarven fortress, and all one of the dwarves living there did was keep talking about how dwarves were ignorant and short and obsessed with mining, and saying that they much preferred elves instead. Hopefully at the very least I'd have a trapdoor that dropped them into a room with a giant cave spider.

Yeah but if you were mayor of a Dwarven fortress everyone would be magmaing you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 29, 2016, 09:38:08 am

Quote from: Kot on November 29, 2016, 09:24:20 am

2. It's not racism if it's true.

Correlation does not imply causation, though. I think it has been shown that the racial bias could be clearly explained by the black/refugee population being mostly poor people, and poor people are significantly more likely to commit criminal acts regardless of race.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 09:42:00 am

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:03:18 am

Do you think the public doesn't have a right to know if a disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by certain groups?

What are you saying here? 'cause it seems to me that you're suggesting that if one person in a "certain group" commits a crime, all persons in that "certain group" must be criminals.

By "certain group", I also assume you mean "immigrant", yes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on November 29, 2016, 09:50:16 am

Quote from: Sergarr on November 29, 2016, 09:38:08 am

Quote from: Kot on November 29, 2016, 09:24:20 am

2. It's not racism if it's true.

Correlation does not imply causation, though. I think it has been shown that the racial bias could be clearly explained by the black/refugee population being mostly poor people, and poor people are significantly more likely to commit criminal acts regardless of race.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you cut the whole second portion of my argument which said exactly what you meant in different way. This is exactly why nothing will ever be done about it, because the second someone mentions it they're instantly labeled as racists. As I said, it's not some genetic stuff that makes blacks and refugees commit crimes, it's rather their situation. If you don't bring attention to it and claim it doesn't happen, you're helping the situation to be as it is now. That's bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 09:52:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 09:42:00 am

What are you saying here? 'cause it seems to me that you're suggesting that if one person in a "certain group" commits a crime, all persons in that "certain group" must be criminals.
By "certain group", I also assume you mean "immigrant", yes?

Not all, disproportionate doesn't mean all, it's a high ratio not 1

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:40:47 am

>Implying I wouldn't be strictly controlling who had access to my precious magma.
Any subversion or conspiracy would be swiftly dealt with by my Praetorian Axelords.

This sounds like a great story, King Midas but instead of hoarding gold he hoards magma
His downfall happens when he is cursed, everything he touches turns to magma. It is a very short story

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 09:40:47 am

It's for the public to look at all the evidence involved and come to their own conclusions, not for the police or government to do it for us and decide 'You don't need to see this information'.

Your conduct has been notified by the information bureau

But yeah in all practicality, when you deliberately have an informational blind spot you have an uninformed electorate who are unable to pressure their politicians, which breaks in a democracy
Very practical usefuleness from time to time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 10:03:15 am

Quote from: Ispil on November 29, 2016, 09:58:54 am

When you have gaps in information such as this, you leave it up to anyone else to fill in the missing gaps. Considering how well the alt-right handles said missing gaps, you'll find the issue of painting all of X as criminals exasperated rather than reduced.

Reminds me of the liberal commentary in the Guardian when the first trafficking gangs started getting brought to light; the commentary astutely garnered the obvious, that by suppressing all information about migrant crime, not only were they creating a backlash that would be far worse than if everyone was knowledgeable about it, it undermined the authority of the police, media and basically ensured the only people who talked about it were alternative news sites. Of course no one learned a thing from it and we're still running through the same process of sticking our heads in the sand and getting surprised when we saw nothing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Phmcw on November 29, 2016, 10:16:32 am

Hiding the statistic is just a way for the guys in charge of justice to avoid doing its job.

Peoples that get in a foreign culture and start poor will cause a rise of common criminality. Peoples that are well established in society and have some wealth to themselves may commit other kind of crimes. Both are not punished but at some point you get tired of having yet another aggression in your social circle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 10:21:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 09:52:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 09:42:00 am

What are you saying here? 'cause it seems to me that you're suggesting that if one person in a "certain group" commits a crime, all persons in that "certain group" must be criminals.
By "certain group", I also assume you mean "immigrant", yes?

Not all, disproportionate doesn't mean all, it's a high ratio not 1

Disproportionate means abnormally high or low, conveniently ignoring the content of the point in favour of semantics.

In the very next sentence, though, Covenant then suggests public policy might limit refugees based on these figures. Strikes me as a bit silly to essentially punish the entirety of a group based on the actions of a few.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Phmcw on November 29, 2016, 10:31:06 am

Guys, poverty, inequality and cultural difference means crime, that's not really up to debate. The thing is, you can implement policies to mitigate that greatly, and that's not up to debate either.

The question is whether or not you do it.
In Europe you can see where and how well it's been done, different demographic at different time got assimilated more or less efficiently.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 10:36:59 am

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 10:21:10 am

Disproportionate means abnormally high or low, conveniently ignoring the content of the point in favour of semantics.

It's not ignoring the content of your point, it's rejecting it
Disproportionate does not mean all

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 10:21:10 am

In the very next sentence, though, Covenant then suggests public policy might limit refugees based on these figures. Strikes me as a bit silly to essentially punish the entirety of a group based on the actions of a few.

Seems a bit silly to think people who don't want to live with higher violent crime are punishing refugees for having security concerns; the EU has conflated being an open door doormat with being humanitarian - a dangerous confusion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 29, 2016, 11:41:19 am

And furthermore - higher immigration rate increases the segregation between immigrants and natives, which increases poverty and crimerate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 29, 2016, 12:07:58 pm

Oh, God... I find it rather fitting that I have not heard of that wheelchair episode until today, here. I believe it has flown under the radar, as it were.

I can comfirm that there is a very real tendency in the press and amongst the authorities of Sweden to report or describe incidents in a way that could reflect badly on immigrants and related areas. And it is absolute rubbish...
It's pathological, this unreasonable phobia of in any way, shape or form give wind in the sails of the nationalist groups, and it is utterly meaningless, of course, because this silence drives more and more people into their arms. And the attempts, well-meaning as they might be, to counter-act this does not help, either.
Then there is the spiking sex crime. Groups of foreign teenage men (some of which considerably older, but raising that sort of suspicion is racist) mugging and raping people as they see fit. Since they are legally children (and because up until very recently, it was the height of racism to suggest that they should be examined to verify their stated age), they recieve no punishment worth mentioning, besides perhaps a few months of detention at a juvenile treatment centre. The government, and large parts of the mainstream media, seems to believe that the best way to ensure these facts does not help the nationalists is to keep it quiet.
And, to put it bluntly, the ideological leaders and preachers of this self-destructive migration policy lose nothing. They can claim the nice feeling and the accolades of being "open and tolerant", while not having to pay the price. That falls to the general public. People who have to live with their decisions, and take the results and responsibilities that are inevitable when the only thing they will do is "the good thing to do", the "open hearted and tolerant" thing to do. When hard decisions that does not "feel right" are declined or avoided, and the results of it trickle down into the reality of the citizen. So many politicians and public servants can no longer be trusted to make hard decisions, like they should, and the public is paying the price for that.

Another interesting fact; the mainstream nationalist party (of sorts) is currently the third largest party in parliament. They are still treated as a political pariah, and many polititans that ought to know better are still prepared to do whatever it takes to deny them influence, to the detriment to everything else. This, of course, only makes it more popular, as a thorn in the side of the establishment. It cannot be strangled to death by refusing to play ball, and the first party group to swallow their pride and adjust to reality will have a great advantage.
It is a shame that the climate and the actions of polititians continue to feed their popularity, because as of now, none of the outspoken nationalist groups are fit to govern. Their policies are rough, half-baked and the candidates range from enthustiastic amateurs to ill-mannered thugs. And if, possibly when, they get a decisive hold of power, it will not be the fault of the "stupid, uneducated, selfish rednecks" (and equivolents)' fault. It will be the fault of those holding this miserable charade going.

Now, I cannot remember ever asking for all this. I do not want this, and I never did. Yet, there is this idea that this is what I want. Truth be told, I'd very much like my country back. I'm so awfully, awfully tired. Tired of it all. And, I suppose, ashamed of being Swedish. Ashamed to see what is happening. Tired, because there is not much one little man like I can do. It is like a nightmare.

And yet, packing my bags and going somewhere more reasonable would be worse. This creaking, rotting old ship (in a storm, with a fire in the galley, the captain dead-drunk and the rats establishing a caliphate in the cargo hold) is the one I'm stuck with, and the one I like best. I would rather fail in doing my part to it get back to harbour than watch it sink safely from afar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 12:48:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 10:36:59 am

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 10:21:10 am

Disproportionate means abnormally high or low, conveniently ignoring the content of the point in favour of semantics.

It's not ignoring the content of your point, it's rejecting it
Disproportionate does not mean all

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 10:21:10 am

In the very next sentence, though, Covenant then suggests public policy might limit refugees based on these figures. Strikes me as a bit silly to essentially punish the entirety of a group based on the actions of a few.

Seems a bit silly to think people who don't want to live with higher violent crime are punishing refugees for having security concerns; the EU has conflated being an open door doormat with being humanitarian - a dangerous confusion

Quote from: scriver on November 29, 2016, 11:41:19 am

And furthermore - higher immigration rate increases the segregation between immigrants and natives, which increases poverty and crimerate.

We're not talking about normal immigration here, though, we're talking about refugees.

Criminality is correlated more with socioeconomic status than anything else (so age, education, and employment) and I agree, normal immigration requires policy that controls for that kind of thing.

PPE:

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 12:26:32 pm

Yet when unintegrated migrant groups commit a disproportionate amount of crime, they are not to blame for it; instead it is the poorly-performing schools they are forced to attend, the lack of money in their pockets, and ultimately, the invisible yet apparently omnipresent 'systematic racism of modern society' that is apparently the real culprit.

Or it's just the fact that lower socioeconomic status is an indicator of higher crime. Perhaps the consideration should be on why they're not integrated and how to fix that? Best indicator for integration is employment. Creating more jobs'll also help the indigenous poor. Bonus.

Refugees, though, aren't normal immigrants. Immigrants are going to somewhere; they have a destination in mind. Refugees are fleeing from something; they just want to gtfo.

Refugees commit more crimes. That's a problem. They don't commit crimes because they're refugees though, so to punish all the refugees because a small number are committing crimes is patently ridiculous. They need to be integratred.

Integration doesn't happen right off the bat, though. It takes a long time. Stupid policies like Swedish police fearing doing their job because they might be seen as racist doesn't help. All that's going to do is make it feel like the authorities aren't going to do anything if a minority commits a crime, so vigilante justice is the way to go. Not a good idea.

Making them feel welcome is a start. Make sure they know the local language, provide them with an education (involving civics) so they can find a job or go onto further education. Get them involved in the local community. It's hard work and not every refugee is going to take to it. That doesn't mean the rest should be abandoned because of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on November 29, 2016, 01:00:35 pm

Refugees dont need to be integrated. They need to be given basic standards of living and other help and returned when conflict that made them refugees has been resolved. But is there discussion on solving those problems? Is there discussion on those tens of millions in need of help who werent able to pay a human smuggler and flee to Europe?

I doubt more than a thousand or two out of the over one million arrived to Europe will go back. Europe should not be world's social service office. Nor should the taxes I pay. Saying this should not be racism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:02:28 pm

Quote from: Erkki on November 29, 2016, 01:00:35 pm

Refugees dont need to be integrated. They need to be given basic standards of living and other help and returned when conflict that made them refugees has been resolved. But is there discussion on solving those problems? Is there discussion on those tens of millions in need of help who werent able to pay a human smuggler and flee to Europe?

I doubt more than a thousand or two out of the over one million arrived to Europe will go back. Europe should not be world's social service office. Nor should the taxes I pay. Saying this should not be racism.

What if the refugees find jobs and pay taxes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 29, 2016, 01:06:33 pm

[In Response to Covenant]

Heh... Thank you. I'm always rather hesitant towards posting things like that. It does make me wonder if I am going hysterical, and that I am causing a scene or being pathetic. It is, after all, effectively a grown meatball crying on the internet. But, after a while, it becomes so much that you have to offload it somewhere. It is, after all, the things that I can see. It is one way to cope, writing about it. It is a great, big, cleaning whinge. It is also one way to react and relate to the memes, as it were, many of which are quite hurtful, but many others are mainly hurtful because of the truth in them. It is giving one's impression from the thick of it, and I like to think that it could help.

I do agree. My class background means that I have heard both the worst (and the best) about the poor. However, in the reaction to Donald Trump's victory, it has gotten downright uncomfortable. In such an environment, it is hardly a wonder that they are prepared to support a candidate strongly out of spite and tiredness.
I did not mention it in the post, but the worst part of the integration failure and the unwillingness to ask any sort of blame from migrants that will not 'play nice' is that they are taking space and resources from the migrants that do play nice, the migrants that would be an asset, and would need the protection most. Further, they also end up having to share the backlash against those groups that will not behave themselves.

As for the last, well... Thank you. Those were kind words. A lot of people maintain that a country is just an imaginary thing, something ungenuine, and not something quite worth bothering with. I disagree. I think that a nation state matters precisely because it is an idea, an imagination. Administration, safety and the rule of law is not a natural state, it is the result of hard work to maintain it, and it is frightfully difficult to build. I know that I my homeland is simply the patch of earth that I happened to be born on, but I quite like it. It is part of me, and I am part of it, and it is an idea and an entity worth keeping, worth protecting, or at the very least, worth continuing to support.
I am not a cultural relativitist. I believe that this place is one of the better societies on earth, at least in so much as it suits me (like it should, for I am native to it), and I think that it should stay that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 01:13:41 pm

Just don't make the mistake we made here in the Netherlands with the Turkish and Moroccan immigrants. Instead of integrating them, we segregated them by subsidizing Turkish tea houses, Moroccan community centers, Turkish elementary schools, and added muslim prayer rooms to all our larger workplaces.

In the end, in every streetcorner, the Moroccan and Turkish people can find a place to segragate themselves from their Dutch neighbors, and reinforce their own cultural history.

What's absurd is, there's no community center for Dutch. If I go to the government and ask cultural subsidies to open a community center for Dutch culture, in a neighborhood that does not have one (mind you, hypothtical, I have no wish or intention to do such a thing), they'd call it unthinkable, or call me white trash and deny it. If I go to the government and ask for subsidy to open a Turkish community center in a neighborhood that lacks one, I'd have a very good chance of getting that, no questions asked. Government way too scared of being accused of racism if they deny :P

So what we've got here is a recipe for segregation. One of the most telling facts that mark it, is the fact that even of the 3d generation migrant's children (of whom both parents are born in the Netherlands, so they're autochtones by definition of law), a lot still speak Dutch with a strong Turkish / Moroccan accent. The only times they spoke Dutch in their youth was at highschool. Outside of that, their football team, their chess club, their homework study group, all organised by and at their little havens of segregation.

First step to integration, is to stop supporting segregation under the guise of being progressive. (IMO, they should stop the subsidies for all those things I mentioned, and instead use the subsidies to open cummunity centers without ethnic denotation, just for everyone)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 01:21:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:02:28 pm

Quote from: Erkki on November 29, 2016, 01:00:35 pm

Refugees dont need to be integrated. They need to be given basic standards of living and other help and returned when conflict that made them refugees has been resolved. But is there discussion on solving those problems? Is there discussion on those tens of millions in need of help who werent able to pay a human smuggler and flee to Europe?

I doubt more than a thousand or two out of the over one million arrived to Europe will go back. Europe should not be world's social service office. Nor should the taxes I pay. Saying this should not be racism.

What if the refugees find jobs and pay taxes?

If nothing major changes politically, the war in Syria will likely be over 2 years from now. I wonder what they'll do then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:30:13 pm

Quote from: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 01:21:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:02:28 pm

Quote from: Erkki on November 29, 2016, 01:00:35 pm

Refugees dont need to be integrated. They need to be given basic standards of living and other help and returned when conflict that made them refugees has been resolved. But is there discussion on solving those problems? Is there discussion on those tens of millions in need of help who werent able to pay a human smuggler and flee to Europe?

I doubt more than a thousand or two out of the over one million arrived to Europe will go back. Europe should not be world's social service office. Nor should the taxes I pay. Saying this should not be racism.

What if the refugees find jobs and pay taxes?

If nothing major changes politically, the war in Syria will likely be over 2 years from now. I wonder what they'll do then?

Who is "they"? Refugees already in Europe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 01:36:34 pm

Quote from: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:30:13 pm

Who is "they"? Refugees already in Europe?

The German government. They eventually made a lot of the refugees from the Yugoslav wars go back to Bosnia (https://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=1077) (it's interesting to see how similar what everyone was saying then is to what everyone is saying about Syrian refugees now,) but the Germany of the late 90's isn't really the same as the Germany of today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 01:37:43 pm

Do note that there's a big difference between Dutch Turkish / Moroccan immigrants and current day refugees.
The Turks and Moroccans never were refugees. Their grandparents and great-grandparents (we're up to generation 4 now, at least for Turks, less so for Moroccans, who are mostly up to generation 3) were actively recruited from Turkey and Morocco by our manufacturing industries back in the '60s and '70s.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2016, 01:51:06 pm

Quote from: Covenant on November 29, 2016, 01:33:30 pm

It's sad how much of a rarity statements like this have become. I feel that way about my own country, and I wish that everyone else in the world felt it about their own countries as well. We should all take pride in ourselves and our heritage, and work to continue them and improve them, rather than sacrificing them on the altar of progressivism to gain a few more virtue points.

You do realise the only thing that it takes to maintain your heritage is to, you know, share it with people?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 06:15:43 pm

German intelligence services have arrested one of it's own employees, after finding out he is a muslim extremist who was planning an attack at the secret service's headquarters in Cologne, according to German media.
The BfV admits they have arrested a 51 year old man with German passport and brought him in for questioning, but refuses to comment on plans for an attack.

Die Welt reports that the man has admitted to planning attacks during interrogation.

The man had been recruited in 2016 to infiltrate islamic circles in Germany, but lead two lives. He didn't arouse suspicion during his training and field assignments, but all the while, he was gathering internal intelligence secrets. On the internet he had contacts with several other islamists with whom he shared plans for the attack, and state secrets.

This got him caught redhanded, when one of the islamists he contacted was actually another BfV agent. According to the media, this was 4 weeks ago. Since his arrest, digital information about the secret service's activities have been found in the man's posession.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 06:26:57 pm

Are you talking about Germany's version of the secret service or are you talking about the Secret Service, the one that protects the POTUS? Because damn, that's a heck of a breach.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2016, 06:28:09 pm

Germany's version, the BfV (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2016, 07:48:22 pm

Normal day in Germany

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on November 29, 2016, 07:56:57 pm

Wait, Germany has intelligence services? Then why do they act so dumb all the time? *rimshot*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:35:59 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/amsterdam-considers-wolf-whistling-ban/

Lolwut Dutch? Banning what's essentially free speech (even if not polite) and having moral secret police (anonymous monitors totally sounds like 'secret police' doesn't it?) isn't the way to go around trying to solve the female harrassment issue.

Doesn't the Netherlands have laws against sexual harrassment? Maybe try enforcing those?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 11:42:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:35:59 pm

Doesn't the Netherlands have laws against sexual harrassment? Maybe try enforcing those?

That's what this new law intends to help them do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:46:52 pm

Quote from: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 11:42:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:35:59 pm

Doesn't the Netherlands have laws against sexual harrassment? Maybe try enforcing those?

That's what this new law intends to help them do.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions though.

Not saying that the mayor intends to do bad things, just that what might seem like a good idea, isn't really.

It wouldn't even pass the smell test here in the US because first amendment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 30, 2016, 03:06:16 am

It's not a new law. It's a city ordinance by the city of Amsterdam. The government has already stated that it is probably unconstitutional for violating free speech. The mayor of Amsterdam however says that by putting it in an ordinance and referring it to public order and safety, it would be legal.

I do love free speech, but I don't think going "pssst whore! Wanna fuck? Can I fuck you please? Or can you at least suck my dick a little?*" is a shining example of free speech, so I applaud the initiative to make women feel less verbally abused on a daily basis.

* not making this up. A year or so ago, one of our tv channels did a hidden camera documentary on verbal abuse of women in Amsterdam. It's full of scum asking women to fuck and calling them whore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 30, 2016, 07:08:30 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:35:59 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/amsterdam-considers-wolf-whistling-ban/

Lolwut Dutch? Banning what's essentially free speech (even if not polite) and having moral secret police (anonymous monitors totally sounds like 'secret police' doesn't it?) isn't the way to go around trying to solve the female harrassment issue.

Doesn't the Netherlands have laws against sexual harrassment? Maybe try enforcing those?

Normal day in Amsterdam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on November 30, 2016, 03:06:05 pm

There are many providers of VPN, they can't get all of them. But damn am I glad that I don't live in England. Sharia is creeping up on it still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 30, 2016, 03:16:17 pm

Quote from: DreamerGhost on November 30, 2016, 03:06:05 pm

There are many providers of VPN, they can't get all of them. But damn am I glad that I don't live in England.

Can ditto.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on November 30, 2016, 03:25:15 pm

Quote from: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on November 28, 2016, 12:02:58 pm

*looks at thread*

*sees people worrying about My Little Pony*

what?!

My Little Pony: The most volatile topic on Bay12. Never, ever go there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on November 30, 2016, 10:54:59 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:46:52 pm

Quote from: Baffler on November 29, 2016, 11:42:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 29, 2016, 11:35:59 pm

Doesn't the Netherlands have laws against sexual harrassment? Maybe try enforcing those?

That's what this new law intends to help them do.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions though.

Not saying that the mayor intends to do bad things, just that what might seem like a good idea, isn't really.

It wouldn't even pass the smell test here in the US because first amendment.

It's been very close to passing SC scrutiny in the US, with the idea that the government is totally competent to decide new categories of non-protected speech (as opposed to the traditional, limited few) based on ad-hoc balancing of "societal value"

The bulwark of the First Amendment is getting to be pretty Maginot looking these days.

_{I referred to the Maginot Line, so it's totes germane to the thread}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 30, 2016, 10:59:48 pm

The Maginiot Line was neither friendly nor polite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 30, 2016, 11:02:23 pm

Swiss cheese would probably have been better, and still germa-, wait, Switzerland isn't actually in the EU, but it IS Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 01, 2016, 03:55:21 am

There's been some ongoing news over here about sports fields made from artificial grass. An extensive field studies has shown that use and wear of the grass give off particles that go far above the upper limits for carcinogenic and toxological values for safe consumer use. This is possible, because the artificial grass is not classified as a consumer product, but as an industrial product, for which the upper limit is 1000x higher than for consumer products.

Toxological experts are stressing the government to try to force the EU to change artificial grass from industrial to consumer product.

No studies have been done yet as to the specific health effects of coming into contact with the rubber granulate particles, short term or long term.
Sports clubs all over the country though are deciding to stop playing on artificial fields, especially for children, and are demanding artificial grass be replaced with real grass.

This is going to cost our cities millions if not over a billion, replacing fields and installing growing lamps in roofed stadiums.

This is what researchers managed to get off an artificial grass field by a quick scoop with some simple gardening tools. These are just the more visible particles. There's fine dust too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/martinuzzz/rubbergranulate_zps3uplxgjp.png) (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/martinuzzz/media/rubbergranulate_zps3uplxgjp.png.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 01, 2016, 08:23:44 am

Quote from: greatorder on December 01, 2016, 07:23:41 am

Pretty sure I recall reading that the black grainy stuff in astroturf is incredibly carcinogenic a while back. IIRC it's made out of shredded tyres.

Yep, main ingredient are shredded tires indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on December 02, 2016, 02:33:31 am

Huh. If I knew that stuff so so carcinogenic, I wouldn't have poked it so much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 02, 2016, 08:19:41 am

Someone dun goofed, hard. (https://www.nd.nl/nieuws/actueel/binnenland/afschuw-in-kamer-over-meldpunt-discriminatie.2397344.lynkx?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Quote from: google translated, but I think you can get the idea - key positions in bold

Loathing in Parliament about discrimination complaints

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The Lower House is horrified reaction to a position of the Hotline Internet Discrimination (MiND). MiND find that negative statements about gay people should be seen by Muslims in the context of faith.

For the independent MPs Joram van Klaveren and Louis Bontes this response to a discrimination error message and unacceptable. They proposed Thursday to ask the Ministers of Justice and Social Affairs after ThePostOnline website had published the views of MiND.

According to the two MPs MiND suggests that violent hate gay allowed under Islam. Inciting violence would be no problem if that happens from the Islamic belief.

Prosecution

These things always belong to the Public Prosecution, said the MPs. Islam and other philosophies of life can never be used as an excuse for actual discrimination or inciting violence.

MiND late in a statement Thursday afternoon know that - after review - there is a ,, error of assessment '' of some expressions. ,, There is some expressions question of a seditious nature and inciting violence. In these cases, the context is not important. ""

fuss

The noise comes at the time the grant MiND is under discussion. A majority in parliament called Wednesday for the enforcement of financial support. According to Labour MP Ahmed Marcouch MiND plays an important part in the gathering of expressions of group discrimination on the Internet. Recently, gay interest group COC called out to maintain the hotline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 02, 2016, 09:19:35 am

http://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/meldpunt-internet-discriminatie-haatzaaien-tegen-homo-s-vanuit-geloof-mag-toch-niet~a4426201/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/meldpunt-internet-discriminatie-haatzaaien-tegen-homo-s-vanuit-geloof-mag-toch-niet~a4426201/)

Yeah apparently someone indeed dun goofed there.
An internetsite that serves as a central (national) reporting point for online discrimination, MInD, did not take action against complaints made against reactions on an article on the newssite Blada.nl. Blada had written an article about the founding of a national LGBT rights group in Morocco. Reactions on the article included "according to islam they should be killed", and "off with their heads!". Users had filed complaints about those comments with MInD. MInD decided to ignore the complaint, saying that 'these comments need to be seen in the light of the religious conviction called islam, which makes it legally not hatespeech."

After one of the complaintants took the story to the Post Online, saying 'inciting to kill people is okay, as long as you are a muslim', MInD now come back on that earlier decision, and have publicly apologized, and stated "hatespeech is hatespeech, and the law is clear about that". They have sent an official request to Facebook to remove the hatespeech comments from Blada.nl.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 02, 2016, 10:46:33 am

Belgium will get it's very own space agency. Next year will see the founding of the Interfederal Space Agency of Belgium (ISAB).
The plan is that with it's own space agency, Belgian space industry will not lose jobs, now that the EU has more authority to grant assignments.

Hey - Belgium might not have a functioning government very often, but the short periods they do have one, they do great things. Like creating space agencies.

I do wonder what their first assignment will be. Relocating Wallonia to the Moon, or relocating Flanders to Mars. /sarcasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 02, 2016, 10:55:24 am

But Europe already has it's own space agency....

Though I guess if every country of Europe wants to create their own country specific space agency, that's their choice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on December 02, 2016, 11:02:29 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 02, 2016, 10:55:24 am

But Europe already has it's own space agency....

Though I guess if every country of Europe wants to create their own country specific space agency, that's their choice.

Poland Belgium can into space!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 02, 2016, 11:34:40 am

Belgium is the best country in Europe. If not for them, EU would control every aspect of our lives Big Brother style already. As it is though, EU development is slowed. Every 4 years, there's a 3 year holiday, where no new policies are passed, because Belgium had new elections and they need to wait for a new official government to be installed to include in the negotiations.  ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 03, 2016, 07:18:56 am

Our national secret service, the AIVD, has been investigation Geert Wilder's connections to Israel.
They also cooperated with Danish intelligence some years ago to get a sneak peak of the movie Fitna, which Wilders refused to share with AIVD for a threat assessment. When he visited a Danish media channel, to let them sneak peek his film, they planted a Danish mole to report on the contents of the movie.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/aivd-looked-into-israeli-contacts-of-geert-wilders~a4427371/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 03, 2016, 08:37:56 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 02, 2016, 10:55:24 am

But Europe already has it's own space agency....

Though I guess if every country of Europe wants to create their own country specific space agency, that's their choice.

They're reorganizing the whole science policy with a plan to make several separate agencies to manage different aspects of science in Belgium by theme. The "space agency" is mostly a new way to coordinate existing programs. We won't be going to space on our own any time soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 03, 2016, 04:18:07 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 03, 2016, 01:35:08 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 03, 2016, 07:18:56 am

They also cooperated with Danish intelligence some years ago to get a sneak peak of the movie Fitna, which Wilders refused to share with AIVD for a threat assessment.

Can you elaborate on this? 'Threat assessment'?

lmao EU assessed Israelis as a threat

In other news

Quote

'Isis fanatics planned to feed poisoned ice-cream to kindergarten kids before bombing nursery'

Why is this normal for Europe (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/isis-fanatics-planned-to-feed-poisoned-icecream-to-kindergarten-kids-before-bombing-nursery-a3408246.html)

Quote

The letter allegedly went on to say: “I work as an ice cream man with my ice cream van and sell to many children.  May I, following Sharia law, use arsenic or warfarin, or better still strychnine, to kill children?”

Then the final question was put to his leader: “Can I make Istis hadi Amaliya (suicide) in the kindergarten too?”

Disgusting tbqh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 03, 2016, 04:19:17 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 03, 2016, 01:35:08 pm

Can you elaborate on this? 'Threat assessment'?

Oh ever since Theo van Gogh* got stabbed and shot to death by a muslim extremist, and Pim Fortuyn** was shot dead by a left-wing extremist, people like Wilders get an extraordinary amount of protective custody measures from the secret service AIVD
The AIVD wanted to know how pissed off muslims would be by Wilders' film, so they could anticipate how much they would need to upscale his security. Wilder's refused to show them the film, so when he went to Danmark to sneak preview show his film to the media there, they took the opportunity and installed a mole.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director))
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn)

EDIT: why he went to Danmark? Not a single Dutch media wanted to show his film, out of fear for becoming a platform for hatespeech and discrimination (and also because he refused to let them sneak preview it)

EDIT2 What I find bothersome about the whole affair, is that apparently some 'journalists' are not journalists, but intelligence agency plants. Gives journalism a bad name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 03, 2016, 04:28:18 pm

The more I hear about stuff like that the more I seriously consider giving in the hate and actually endorsing removing kebab.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 03, 2016, 04:36:10 pm

Oh, here's the news article on the Danmark thing: http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/danish-intelligence-agency-uncovered-content-of-wilders-fitna-using-undercover-operation~a4427381/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/danish-intelligence-agency-uncovered-content-of-wilders-fitna-using-undercover-operation~a4427381/)

(I don't know why the Volkskrant has these two articles in english. Every once in a while, a few articles are posted double on the online front page, in dutch and in english. Usually it's just dutch, or I would link english versions)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 03, 2016, 05:54:21 pm

Nope. They just wanted to know how many grunts extra to deploy to his security detail. The rumour had it that he was going to burn the Qu'ran in the movie.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 04, 2016, 01:18:41 pm

This is cause for celebration: Austrians have stopped the Far-right neo-nazis from taking power, breaking the Brexit/Trump trend! (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-austria-election-idUSKBN13S0W0?il=0)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 04, 2016, 02:05:36 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 04, 2016, 01:18:41 pm

This is cause for celebration: Austrians have stopped the Far-right neo-nazis from taking power, breaking the Brexit/Trump trend! (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-austria-election-idUSKBN13S0W0?il=0)

They're a Parliamentary system though, so the Presidency is only cermonial. But Van der Bellen has said he would try to prevent a government led by the Austrian equivalent of the Republicans, or maybe equivalent of the Tea Party and Trumpism.

Quote from: Ispil on December 04, 2016, 01:19:08 pm

Huzzah. There may be light at the end of this tunnel yet.

There's still Italy today, they're doing a referendum on constitutional reforms and the 5Star party there sounds like a combination of the Tea Party/Trumpism rage with elements of liberal ideas.

Politico article on it. (http://www.politico.eu/article/italys-5star-movement-referendum-sunday-matteo-renzi/)

BBC article with information on the referendum itself. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38198177)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2016, 10:29:44 pm

Can't say I'm surprised. Literally the only Italian news I ever hear is of people fed up with the government's corruption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 04, 2016, 10:42:45 pm

Yeah, looks like they effectively got Trumped.

Sounds like the 5Star party is going to take over and from the articles I've read, they're refusing to form a coalition with others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 05:50:33 pm

Europeans eagerly marching into slavery on another children's crusade (http://civilmarch.org/)

This is why I'm scared to share a continent with them, too many have zero survival instincts or self-preservation instincts whatsoever, acting quite unlike any organism I have in my knowledge

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 05, 2016, 05:53:18 pm

Inb4 all the men get killed and raped, all the women get raped and killed. Children it's 50/50.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:01:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 05:50:33 pm

Europeans eagerly marching into slavery on another children's crusade (http://civilmarch.org/)

This is why I'm scared to share a continent with them, too many have zero survival instincts or self-preservation instincts whatsoever, acting quite unlike any organism I have in my knowledge

Initially I thought it was just a regular protest march to bring attention to the issue, but then I read this:

"Where shall we sleep?

We will try to find camping grounds or hostels on the way and inform you about them. We are contacting organizations to arrange private hosts, or gyms, but in extreme case you have to be able to sleep with your equipment “wild”. So remember that in the end sleeping has to be organized by every marcher independently.
What about food?

We cannot provide food for you. We cannot organize catering. But we will point out shopping facilities on the way. Please be aware that you need to be responsible and prepare food for yourself. We are working on facilities to provide you with hot water on the way.

Is the march family-friendly?

Within the European Union the march should not be a risk for children in general, but please decide carefully if your children are capable of such a march in winter condition. Please remember it is your responsibility as a parent/guardian to take care of your child/children.
Please also be aware of the law in your country of origin and the countries you are are marching in, when it comes to responsibilities of the caretakers towards children. It is worth mentioning, that most of the organizers decided not to take their children with them."

It does say that they don't expect everybody to walk the whole way, but still....

It's crazy to go to Syria, yes, but apparently people need to do crazy and desperate things to bring attention to the whole plight of Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 05, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

"It is not about us knowing the solutions, it is about involving people to create these solutions."

Okay then.

I also like how they say they don't want to create additional victims or problems, yet they're marching toward an active warzone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 05, 2016, 06:14:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 05:50:33 pm

Europeans eagerly marching into slavery on another children's crusade (http://civilmarch.org/)

This is why I'm scared to share a continent with them, too many have zero survival instincts or self-preservation instincts whatsoever, acting quite unlike any organism I have in my knowledge

Oh dear, Europeans have turned from Gladiators, Vikings and Knights to Lemmings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2016, 06:20:19 pm

They're marching a host of 3000 people into an area that is already a humanitarian disaster, where people already lack food and water. It's either ridiculously arrogant or ridiculously naive, and either way it is the direct opposite of helpful.

Quote from: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:01:07 pm

It's crazy to go to Syria, yes, but apparently people need to do crazy and desperate things to bring attention to the whole plight of Syria.

There couldn't be any more attention on Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:23:04 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 05, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

"It is not about us knowing the solutions, it is about involving people to create these solutions."

Okay then.

I also like how they say they don't want to create additional victims or problems, yet they're marching toward an active warzone.

Given that they took their inspiration from Ghandis and MLKs marches, they're doing the 'marching towards (or in the face of) pointed guns/threats of force' trick, just on a massive scale and hoping that... um... this is where the anology breaks down completely.... tried to think of an ending to the sentence or two or three and there isn't a good way out of it because not only are they trying to force people to stop fighting, they're marching towards people who would gladly and gleefully murder them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:25:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 05, 2016, 06:20:19 pm

They're marching a host of 3000 people into an area that is already a humanitarian disaster, where people already lack food and water. It's either ridiculously arrogant or ridiculously naive, and either way it is the direct opposite of helpful.

Quote from: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:01:07 pm

It's crazy to go to Syria, yes, but apparently people need to do crazy and desperate things to bring attention to the whole plight of Syria.

There couldn't be any more attention on Syria.

Well, evidently there are people willing to do crazy things to try and stop the war. Also trying to hope that all sides go WTF enough to stop fighting.

It's sounding like Aleppo might not last three months, so, it would be futile, and there are better ways to get attention.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 05, 2016, 06:27:32 pm

Well, it depends on the turn-out, surely. I doubt they will attract that many, let alone tear every man, woman and child in Europe away from their business to march to Syria, in the dead of winter and with only a vague ideal to follow. It is very disconcerting by its existance, however. It is... Well-meant, one must suppose, but it is incredibly naïve and strange. But then again... They are effectively suggesting doing something incredibly dangerous to force the European politicians into action. It is an intriguing form of blackmail.

Of course, I doubt we will see a large train of thousands of people, children and eldery, actually march Berlin to Aleppo in the middle of winter. Somehow, it seems far too dramatic even for this age of madness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 06:45:29 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 05, 2016, 06:20:19 pm

They're marching a host of 3000 people into an area that is already a humanitarian disaster, where people already lack food and water. It's either ridiculously arrogant or ridiculously naive, and either way it is the direct opposite of helpful.

I think it's ridiculous naivety more than arrogance, the product of people who have been immunized to danger to the point where even the concept of danger is unknown to them
I'm not even being metaphorical or anything, I mean that literally

Quote

Do you also think it's enough? Do you also want to do more than crying in front of your laptop?

Distorted image of reality from too much media, too little life

Quote

This is our action. We are going to Aleppo. What will happen then? Will then send bombs on our 5000-people crowd? Will they dare to do that?! You think we are crazy? We think that it's crazy to sit and wait until everybody dies.

>Will they dare do that?
ISIS has been bombing crowds of people (right after Germany's summer of slaughter to boot, so they don't even have the excuse of the attacks happening in faraway lands) and they still don't believe that their crowd will get bombed or worse, captured

2016 is a strange year where memes become reality

Quote from: Vilanat on December 05, 2016, 06:14:12 pm

Oh dear, Europeans have turned from Gladiators, Vikings and Knights to Lemmings.

On all levels except physical I am the Western civilization
[collapses]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2016, 06:47:34 pm

Jesus Christ, Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on December 05, 2016, 06:51:42 pm

inb4 Turkey doesn't let them through. Even if they do manage to get to the Syrian border, they'll have to pass through rebel (or dangerously close to ISIS) held territory to get to Aleppo by land anyway.

Maybe they want to support the rebels by volunteering to be held for ransom?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 06:56:05 pm

Quote from: Baffler on December 05, 2016, 06:51:42 pm

inb4 Turkey doesn't let them through. Even if they do manage to get to the Syrian border, they'll have to pass through rebel (or ISIS) held territory to get to Aleppo by land anyway.

Maybe they want to support the rebels by volunteering to be held for ransom?

They'll probably have every country they go through try to stop them from doing something stupid. I could see Turkey refusing to allow them to even enter Syria, and even being in Turkey is risky.

Besides, the rebels just lost half of what they had in Aleppo, it might not even last three more months.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 09:13:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

wtf is wrong with Russian-Ukrainian border on that picture

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 06, 2016, 09:17:24 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 09:13:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

wtf is wrong with Russian-Ukrainian border on that picture

Well, clearly they've drained the Azov sea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:20:09 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 09:13:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

wtf is wrong with Russian-Ukrainian border on that picture

I think they used mspaint to fill in all the national borders in orange, mistakenly filling in the sea of azov

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 11:00:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 05:50:33 pm

Europeans eagerly marching into slavery on another children's crusade (http://civilmarch.org/)

This is why I'm scared to share a continent with them, too many have zero survival instincts or self-preservation instincts whatsoever, acting quite unlike any organism I have in my knowledge

List of organisers: Poland, Poland, Poland, Poland, Germany Rightful Polish clay, Poland, Finl Poland, South Afr South Pole Land South Poland, Poland, Portuland.

DEUS VULT.

But yeah if anyone over here would be in their not so right mind to plan on taking their children there and social services got wind of it they'd remove guardianship from the parents and place them in foster care.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 11:26:32 am

Strange, the rest of their manifesto has disappeared, or rather, clicking the button to view the rest of it doesn't show more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on December 06, 2016, 11:28:59 am

If it was actually the Polish doing this they'd defeat everyone there and then go on to take Jerusalem. As long as they don't walk but ride there, and wear wings on their back.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 06, 2016, 11:34:12 am

✝  D  ✝  ✝
✝  E  ✝  ✝
V  U  L  T
✝  S  ✝  ✝

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 11:46:46 am

Also, regarding:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

Wouldn't it be faster if they cut through Bulgaria? Saves them a couple hundred miles/kilometers maybe. I also realized this morning when I saw that, that they'll need passports, especially in the Balkan states. fakeedit: Or maybe they could go through Austria->Romania->Bulgaria->Greece to take advantage of the Shingen (the open border thing, I think I might be confusing the Japanese word for Bullet Train with the actual word)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 06, 2016, 12:10:30 pm

they will need passports regardless of Shengen. but really? passports? that what worries you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 06, 2016, 12:13:45 pm

Come on guys, it's a protest to draw attention. They know very well they won't be left beyond Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 06, 2016, 12:17:11 pm

Their most effective protest would be achieved by ending in a mass grave. other than that, nobody would give a fuck except for humor purposes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 12:19:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 11:46:46 am

Also, regarding:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:01:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfQGKif.png)

Wouldn't it be faster if they cut through Bulgaria? Saves them a couple hundred miles/kilometers maybe. I also realized this morning when I saw that, that they'll need passports, especially in the Balkan states. fakeedit: Or maybe they could go through Austria->Romania->Bulgaria->Greece to take advantage of the Shingen (the open border thing, I think I might be confusing the Japanese word for Bullet Train with the actual word)

Or they could swim to Israel as crusaders tourists and then cross straight into Syria. For bonus points, that would led them straight into ISIS hands, ensuring their untimely horrible death and/or being ransomed for big league cash to further fuel the Caliphate's meat grinder in Mosul.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 12:20:00 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 06, 2016, 12:10:30 pm

they will need passports regardless of Shengen. but really? passports? that what worries you?

Nah, it was just a thought I had.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 02:04:41 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 12:19:29 pm

Or they could swim to Israel as crusaders tourists and then cross straight into Syria. For bonus points, that would led them straight into ISIS hands, ensuring their untimely horrible death and/or being ransomed for big league cash to further fuel the Caliphate's meat grinder in Mosul.

Alternatively they could be a secret contingent of Al-Nusra or ISIS who intend to reinforce the jihadists, and the whole march is actually a clever stratagem disguised as natural selection pressures

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 06, 2016, 02:06:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 02:04:41 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 12:19:29 pm

Or they could swim to Israel as crusaders tourists and then cross straight into Syria. For bonus points, that would led them straight into ISIS hands, ensuring their untimely horrible death and/or being ransomed for big league cash to further fuel the Caliphate's meat grinder in Mosul.

Alternatively they could be a secret contingent of Al-Nusra or ISIS who intend to reinforce the jihadists, and the whole march is actually a clever stratagem disguised as natural selection pressures

There's no humanitarian crisis if all the humans are dead I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 02:56:06 pm

Angela Merkel calls for full-face veil ban in Germany (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/06/europe/angela-merkel-full-veil-ban-germany/index.html)

A bit late, but better late than never.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:00:56 pm

What nonsense. She won't try to stop local politicians from covering up crimes by Muslims out of fear of being perceived as racist, but she'll openly tell women what they're allowed to wear?

LW was right about you, Europe. It's like I don't even know you anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 03:05:06 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:00:56 pm

What nonsense. She won't try to stop local politicians from covering up crimes by Muslims out of fear of being perceived as racist, but she'll openly tell women what they're allowed to wear?

LW was right about you, Europe. It's like I don't even know you anymore.

That first part was before she realized that AfD had a real chance of dethroning the Eternal Chancellor. That thing she did is probably an opening move in the upcoming general right-wing shift, to try and swing some of the AfD voters back to her side.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:10:36 pm

I swear, it's like governments are just compelled to always take the single most simultaneously destructive yet also ineffective path towards every issue. Expect whatever law that comes out of this to also be used as an effective ban on protestors via "face coverings". If I recall correctly, that already actually happened in France's version of it.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised though, this is the same nation that two months ago announced a zero tolerance policy on clown costumes due to their "terrorism". What really gets me is how many people buy line and sinker this "we don't cover our faces in our culture" propaganda line that politicians keep spouting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 03:17:03 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 03:05:06 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:00:56 pm

What nonsense. She won't try to stop local politicians from covering up crimes by Muslims out of fear of being perceived as racist, but she'll openly tell women what they're allowed to wear?

LW was right about you, Europe. It's like I don't even know you anymore.

That first part was before she realized that AfD had a real chance of dethroning the Eternal Chancellor. That thing she did is probably an opening move in the upcoming general right-wing shift, to try and swing some of the AfD voters back to her side.

Well yeah, she is running for another term, so, no surprise she is taking a rightward swing.

Somewhat more info on it than CNN does: http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/6/13854214/germany-angela-merkel-burqa-ban

The ban while driving part at least seems practical though, you really don't want anything that can obscure your vision (and no, I don't mean like sunglasses).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 03:50:30 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 06, 2016, 03:31:48 pm

She's trying to appease voters who are growing more and more frustrated with the road she's driving Germany down, but so long as she stays behind the wheel there'll be no real change.

Appeasing german voters? Check the channel for uboats, that's some alarm bells right there

Quote from: Covenant on December 06, 2016, 03:31:48 pm

Hopefully German voters will see through it, but I'm not particularly hopeful. All that collective guilt indoctrination we did on them after WWII is really coming back to bite us in the ass.

This is the grim dark future we chose
At least we have top bants in the great decline though
Something weird with the psyche of Germany. So many Germans who don't want to be Germans whilst I'm reminded of one of the mass shooters screaming "I'm German"
Like the whole culture has become about trying to be what you can't, instead of being happy with who you are and being a good person

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:00:56 pm

What nonsense. She won't try to stop local politicians from covering up crimes by Muslims out of fear of being perceived as racist, but she'll openly tell women what they're allowed to wear?
LW was right about you, Europe. It's like I don't even know you anymore.

I swer on me nan's blessed grave that yesterday's irony is tomorrow's sincerity
I'm not even sure if ironic irony is safe from becoming sincerity anymore

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 06, 2016, 03:55:45 pm

I think that Germany is trying it's best to not be violent while it's okay to be a bit violent. USA does it all the time and nobody gives a shit.
Be violent Germany, fight the IS and other terrorists, just don't go genocidal. You can be strong and have good military tradition without becoming Hitler.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2016, 04:08:10 pm

Spoiler: armchair general-type hypothetical scenario (click to show/hide)

Step one: conclude current mid-east wars/revolutions, although there will still be tension with Israel and there might be some remaining terrorism
Step two: increase xenophobia in Europe until there's either forced migration or people from the middle east in the EU voluntarily leave for their own safety/freedom
Step three: the EU/various EU countries invades mid-east now that the mideast hates them, probably under the excuse of stopping terrorism but actually to get oil
After that, things get interesting and depend on how the US, Russia, and China side. With current world politics, Russia sides with the middle east, China stays out as much as possible, and the US sides with the EU + Israel. Unless the EU invades Israel too, in which case the US sides with Israel against the EU and may or may not be aligned with Russia or other middle-eastern countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 04:20:56 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2016, 04:08:10 pm

Spoiler: armchair general-type hypothetical scenario (click to show/hide)

Step one: conclude current mid-east wars/revolutions, although there will still be tension with Israel and there might be some remaining terrorism
Step two: increase xenophobia in Europe until there's either forced migration or people from the middle east in the EU voluntarily leave for their own safety/freedom
Step three: the EU/various EU countries invades mid-east now that the mideast hates them, probably under the excuse of stopping terrorism but actually to get oil
After that, things get interesting and depend on how the US, Russia, and China side. With current world politics, Russia sides with the middle east, China stays out as much as possible, and the US sides with the EU + Israel. Unless the EU invades Israel too, in which case the US sides with Israel against the EU and may or may not be aligned with Russia or other middle-eastern countries.

There isn't that much oil in Middle East if you don't go to the Saudi land, and I don't think Russia is going to suddenly align with the decades-old strategic allies of USA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 04:25:14 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2016, 04:08:10 pm

Spoiler: armchair general-type hypothetical scenario (click to show/hide)

Step one: conclude current mid-east wars/revolutions, although there will still be tension with Israel and there might be some remaining terrorism
Step two: increase xenophobia in Europe until there's either forced migration or people from the middle east in the EU voluntarily leave for their own safety/freedom
Step three: the EU/various EU countries invades mid-east now that the mideast hates them, probably under the excuse of stopping terrorism but actually to get oil
After that, things get interesting and depend on how the US, Russia, and China side. With current world politics, Russia sides with the middle east, China stays out as much as possible, and the US sides with the EU + Israel. Unless the EU invades Israel too, in which case the US sides with Israel against the EU and may or may not be aligned with Russia or other middle-eastern countries.

Spoiler: armchair general analysis (click to show/hide)

Step 1 is not possible. "Concluding current mid east wars" is not in the power of Europe to do, besides maybe France and UK, and UK will not be an EU nation for long, even so the absence of European actors (even including Russia) would not put the middle east at peace
Step 2 is possible, but very difficult. I don't know how you go about deliberately exacerbating xenophobia to induce forced migration, sounds more likely to just cause civil war. Nah deportation is much finer a tool and would get the job done far quicker without needing to alter the psyche of whole generations or driving unnecessary wedges between civil society
Step 3 there is not enough oil in the middle east to cover the cost of such a war. Alternative funding would be needed, which would make the war a war for the sake of war. I suppose such a thing could be justified in geopolitical terms, but given the density of nuclear armed nations interested in such a corner of the world at the same time, it is a poor life choice and likely to end in more european civilians slaughtered by jihadists than usual, with the added fun of failure and civilizational collapse. Simply put when your civilization is crumbling it is not the time to try end someone else's civilization, when Rome and Parthia fought, Arabia arose, their decline became terminal.
Russia will not side with the middle east, nor is there or would there be a middle east bloc. Russia would be focused on getting its middle eastern allies to align with Russia, so as to benefit from their being in Russia's influence without falling afoul of the mistakes of the USSR, or even the USA, getting bogged down in military interventions that strain the state's economy
Israel would not side with the EU or USA, though it would probably offer logistical support to invading forces and employ its military towards securing the levant. Reason being it would not have a lot to gain from sending its soldiers to fight for an EU coalition, whilst it could stand to lose everything in the event of a defeat. Remaining an independent actor would allow it to act in whatever manner most likely to ensure its survival

I'm not quite sure what the purpose of the hypothetical scenario is. It doesn't seem like the objective benefits anyone, and would be to the detriment of everyone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2016, 04:30:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 06, 2016, 04:20:56 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2016, 04:08:10 pm

Spoiler: armchair general-type hypothetical scenario (click to show/hide)

Step one: conclude current mid-east wars/revolutions, although there will still be tension with Israel and there might be some remaining terrorism
Step two: increase xenophobia in Europe until there's either forced migration or people from the middle east in the EU voluntarily leave for their own safety/freedom
Step three: the EU/various EU countries invades mid-east now that the mideast hates them, probably under the excuse of stopping terrorism but actually to get oil
After that, things get interesting and depend on how the US, Russia, and China side. With current world politics, Russia sides with the middle east, China stays out as much as possible, and the US sides with the EU + Israel. Unless the EU invades Israel too, in which case the US sides with Israel against the EU and may or may not be aligned with Russia or other middle-eastern countries.

There isn't that much oil in Middle East if you don't go to the Saudi land, and I don't think Russia is going to suddenly align with the decades-old strategic allies of USA.

Russia has sided with the Syrian government and they've sided with other nearby countries in the past (Turkey, Afganistan [technically after invading though]). But I'll admit that oil is a really tenuous reason for the EU to invade the middle east. It's much more likely that a major conflict will start in the South China sea between China and neighboring countries or in Eastern Europe with Russia or even between the US and Russia as they support different sides in the Middle East (which still isn't likely because, as LW has pointed out, a war like this would be bad for everyone).

IDK why I posted this. It was mostly an interesting idea I had.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 06, 2016, 04:38:20 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 03:00:56 pm

What nonsense. She won't try to stop local politicians from covering up crimes by Muslims out of fear of being perceived as racist, but she'll openly tell women what they're allowed to wear?

LW was right about you, Europe. It's like I don't even know you anymore.

Imagine, Sir, having to live with it. It is as if one woke up one thursday morning and noticed how the whole house has slowly turned into meringue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:07:51 pm

Four Dutch companies, including two large banks, have been put on a black list by the state of New York, because according to NY, they boycot Israel.
They are given three months time to prove they are not boycotting Isreal, or face boycot themselves by the state of New York.

The companies deny boycotting Israel. They do boycot certain companies in Israel that are operating in illegal occupied territories, but they are not boycotting Israel as a whole. The most publicly known boycot is the company Vitens, which pulled out of it cooperation with the Israeli water company Mekorot, after a UN report accused it of pumping water out of occupied territory to sell it to Israelis.

It is official Dutch policy that companies are discouraged from trading with companies that profit from the occupied territories. It's not a ban, but it is a strong advice.

There's a difference between 'boycotting Israel' and boycotting certain companies that breach international law though. All four companies still do business with and in Israel, just not with Israeli companies operating in the occupied territories.

So wtf New York?

The blacklist, which totals 13 companies, is an initiative by New York governor Andrew Cuomo. He has banned companies from doing business with companies that boycot Israel. (Does that mean that New York cars will run out of gas soon? I'm quite sure that that ban would include doing business with most oil producing countries. Or does Cuomo want all New York cars to run on Russian petrol?)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 07:22:46 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 06, 2016, 03:31:48 pm

I think it would be very naive to assume that Merkel is taking a genuine 'rightward swing'. She's had three terms to do whatever she wanted to do, and she's shown before that she'll say whatever she thinks will get her more votes ('Multiculturalism is dead', anyone?). It doesn't mean a thing as regards her actions.

She's trying to appease voters who are growing more and more frustrated with the road she's driving Germany down, but so long as she stays behind the wheel there'll be no real change.

Hopefully German voters will see through it, but I'm not particularly hopeful. All that collective guilt indoctrination we did on them after WWII is really coming back to bite us in the ass.

I never said that she was taking a genuine rightward swing, just that she was swinging to the right a bit to appeal to the rightwing party and conservatives. Normal tactics when a politician is facing an election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:32:17 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 06, 2016, 03:31:48 pm

I think it would be very naive to assume that Merkel is taking a genuine 'rightward swing'. She's had three terms to do whatever she wanted to do, and she's shown before that she'll say whatever she thinks will get her more votes ('Multiculturalism is dead', anyone?). It doesn't mean a thing as regards her actions.

She's trying to appease voters who are growing more and more frustrated with the road she's driving Germany down, but so long as she stays behind the wheel there'll be no real change.

Hopefully German voters will see through it, but I'm not particularly hopeful. All that collective guilt indoctrination we did on them after WWII is really coming back to bite us in the ass.

I still don't get that. 'We feel collectively guilty for our grandparents killing 6 million jews, so let's allow 900000 people into our country of whom a large part have been raised from birth to want jews dead'. Right. Makes sense I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 08:24:48 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:32:17 pm

I still don't get that. 'We feel collectively guilty for our grandparents killing 6 million jews, so let's allow 900000 people into our country of whom a large part have been raised from birth to want jews dead'. Right. Makes sense I guess.

Ideological subversion fam
Makes people see reality in weird ways

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on December 06, 2016, 08:46:26 pm

I was just watching a video saying that focusing on the 6 million in the holocaust is unjust. Not because it's not true, but because it unfairly whitewashes the 11 million in total who were killed in the camps. The 6 million underestimates the total. The other 5 million deserve a mention now and then, and not as a footnote. Sure, the other 5 million were more diverse than the 6 million jews, so it's easier to focus on the jews, but 5 million people who are "more diverse" are no less valuable as humans than another 5 million who happen to be a single ethnic group.

Think about it: when you ask how many people the Nazis killed, many instantly jump up and say "6 million" (in fact Martinuzz just did that exact thing, giving the instant response "6 million jews" to the idea of German guilt. It's not intentional, but it is just as wrong to overlook the other 5 million victims as it would be to discount 6 million killed jews.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 08:56:11 pm

Yes, you are quite right, and it's good to bring that up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 08:58:29 pm

Not to mention the other 50 million casualties of the war, or how by some measures China alone adds another 50 million, though besides team killing fucktards like Stalin or other axis powers they weren't genocides

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 08:59:03 pm

If you really want to make Germans cry, there were also all the Jews the Nazis tried and failed to kill (a chain of events that would eventually lead to the advent of yours truly), the other people they failed to kill, the civilians in other nations they killed, the soldiers from all over the world they killed, and all the Germans they killed.

Nazis, man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:05:32 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 08:59:03 pm

If you really want to make Germans cry, there were also all the Jews the Nazis tried and failed to kill (a chain of events that would eventually lead to the advent of yours truly), the other people they failed to kill, the civilians in other nations they killed, the soldiers from all over the world they killed, and all the Germans they killed.

Nazis, man.

Don't forget the Jews and Slavs who the Nazis made kill other Jews and Slavs, that one makes them really depressed because it's extra inhumanity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 09:10:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:05:32 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2016, 08:59:03 pm

If you really want to make Germans cry, there were also all the Jews the Nazis tried and failed to kill (a chain of events that would eventually lead to the advent of yours truly), the other people they failed to kill, the civilians in other nations they killed, the soldiers from all over the world they killed, and all the Germans they killed.

Nazis, man.

Don't forget the Jews and Slavs who the Nazis made kill other Jews and Slavs, that one makes them really depressed because it's extra inhumanity

And who can forget the nuclear weapons they forced the United States to bomb Japan with, that was pretty crazy. Leading to the inexorable conclusion that any incident of nuclear war is ultimately Germany's fault for getting the ball rolling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2016, 09:13:28 pm

Nazi Germany forced air command to do the first ever freedom bombing and that's no joke
Also Hitler killed my bees fuck that guy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2016, 09:15:31 pm

Quote from: Baffler on December 06, 2016, 09:00:39 pm

The rebels in the Old City areas of Aleppo surrendered today. They got a bus ticket to Idlib and vacated their positions. This is what it looks like now:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/nBuA3Er.jpg)

There's a very good chance the whole city will be under government control by the end of the week. Almost certainly by the end of next week.

So much for that protest march if Aleppo is going to fall by Christmas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on December 07, 2016, 09:28:55 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:07:51 pm

Four Dutch companies, including two large banks, have been put on a black list by the state of New York, because according to NY, they boycot Israel.
They are given three months time to prove they are not boycotting Isreal, or face boycot themselves by the state of New York.

The companies deny boycotting Israel. They do boycot certain companies in Israel that are operating in illegal occupied territories, but they are not boycotting Israel as a whole. The most publicly known boycot is the company Vitens, which pulled out of it cooperation with the Israeli water company Mekorot, after a UN report accused it of pumping water out of occupied territory to sell it to Israelis.

It is official Dutch policy that companies are discouraged from trading with companies that profit from the occupied territories. It's not a ban, but it is a strong advice.

There's a difference between 'boycotting Israel' and boycotting certain companies that breach international law though. All four companies still do business with and in Israel, just not with Israeli companies operating in the occupied territories.

So wtf New York?

The blacklist, which totals 13 companies, is an initiative by New York governor Andrew Cuomo. He has banned companies from doing business with companies that boycot Israel. (Does that mean that New York cars will run out of gas soon? I'm quite sure that that ban would include doing business with most oil producing countries. Or does Cuomo want all New York cars to run on Russian petrol?)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/)

It might be an attempt to make New York a pedestrian city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 12:36:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:07:51 pm

Four Dutch companies, including two large banks, have been put on a black list by the state of New York, because according to NY, they boycot Israel.
They are given three months time to prove they are not boycotting Isreal, or face boycot themselves by the state of New York.

The companies deny boycotting Israel. They do boycot certain companies in Israel that are operating in illegal occupied territories, but they are not boycotting Israel as a whole. The most publicly known boycot is the company Vitens, which pulled out of it cooperation with the Israeli water company Mekorot, after a UN report accused it of pumping water out of occupied territory to sell it to Israelis.

It is official Dutch policy that companies are discouraged from trading with companies that profit from the occupied territories. It's not a ban, but it is a strong advice.

There's a difference between 'boycotting Israel' and boycotting certain companies that breach international law though. All four companies still do business with and in Israel, just not with Israeli companies operating in the occupied territories.

So wtf New York?
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/)

Good, another right step against the Arab boycott against Israel that started in 1945.

Btw, i assume you have a proof that Mekorot is breaching international law?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 12:39:43 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 12:36:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2016, 07:07:51 pm

Four Dutch companies, including two large banks, have been put on a black list by the state of New York, because according to NY, they boycot Israel.
They are given three months time to prove they are not boycotting Isreal, or face boycot themselves by the state of New York.

The companies deny boycotting Israel. They do boycot certain companies in Israel that are operating in illegal occupied territories, but they are not boycotting Israel as a whole. The most publicly known boycot is the company Vitens, which pulled out of it cooperation with the Israeli water company Mekorot, after a UN report accused it of pumping water out of occupied territory to sell it to Israelis.

It is official Dutch policy that companies are discouraged from trading with companies that profit from the occupied territories. It's not a ban, but it is a strong advice.

There's a difference between 'boycotting Israel' and boycotting certain companies that breach international law though. All four companies still do business with and in Israel, just not with Israeli companies operating in the occupied territories.

So wtf New York?
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/staat-new-york-zet-nederlandse-bedrijven-op-zwarte-lijst-om-israel-boycot~a4429116/)

Good, another right step against the Arab boycott against Israel that started 1945.

Btw, i assume you have a proof that Mekorot is breaching international law?

>Arab boycott
>Dutch banks.
>Implying Dutch banks are Arab.

I know you mean Israeli boycott in general, just poking your logic.

And Mekorot is doing a terrible thing, if true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 02:46:11 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 12:36:32 pm

Good, another right step against the Arab boycott against Israel that started in 1945.

That's a good thing? Israel is a made up country with made up borders and basically exists to piss off everyone around it and that's purely thanks to half of the world having immense guilt trip over them getting almost killed off due to both imaginary and real reasons. The best example of Israel not being a good idea is the fact that the second they stop having external help from USA they would get steamrolled into ground...
I mean, fuck, m8, guess how Americans would feel if suddenly Native Americans would get their own country made up from New Jork and started to act incredibly hostile against everyone who's not Native in these places and employ shady as fuck techniques to get rid of them, possibly sparking a war or two. Arab is pretty much rightful in their boycott if anything.

As for the Dutch - they're just doing the same thing they would do to anyone and I don't think they specifically wanted to target Israelis, they just target shady fucking people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:01:31 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 02:46:11 pm

That's a good thing? Israel is a made up country with made up borders and basically exists to piss off everyone around it and that's purely thanks to half of the world having immense guilt trip over them getting almost killed off due to both imaginary and real reasons. The best example of Israel not being a good idea is the fact that the second they stop having external help from USA they would get steamrolled into ground...
I mean, fuck, m8, guess how Americans would feel if suddenly Native Americans would get their own country made up from New Jork and started to act incredibly hostile against everyone who's not Native in these places and employ shady as fuck techniques to get rid of them, possibly sparking a war or two. Arab is pretty much rightful in their boycott if anything.

As for the Dutch - they're just doing the same thing they would do to anyone and I don't think they specifically wanted to target Israelis, they just target shady fucking people.

I'll try to ignore most of what you said, because heil. But can you point a single country on this planet that isn't made up with a made up border?

And btw, if Israel is employing shady as fuck techniques to get rid of non-natives (I persume it's the Arabs), how come the Arab population in Israel and the Palestinian Authority grew significantly yet Jews population in Arab countries shrank significantly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 03:13:16 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:01:31 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 02:46:11 pm

That's a good thing? Israel is a made up country with made up borders and basically exists to piss off everyone around it and that's purely thanks to half of the world having immense guilt trip over them getting almost killed off due to both imaginary and real reasons. The best example of Israel not being a good idea is the fact that the second they stop having external help from USA they would get steamrolled into ground...
I mean, fuck, m8, guess how Americans would feel if suddenly Native Americans would get their own country made up from New Jork and started to act incredibly hostile against everyone who's not Native in these places and employ shady as fuck techniques to get rid of them, possibly sparking a war or two. Arab is pretty much rightful in their boycott if anything.

As for the Dutch - they're just doing the same thing they would do to anyone and I don't think they specifically wanted to target Israelis, they just target shady fucking people.

I'll try to ignore most of what you said, because heil. But can you point a single country on this planet that isn't made up with a made up border?

And btw, if Israel is employing shady as fuck techniques to get rid of non-natives (I persume it's the Arabs), how come the Arab population in Israel and the Palestinian Authority grew significantly yet Jews population in Arab countries shrank significantly?

Um, the Arabs were there BEFORE the state of Israel was established and there are and were Jews living in the region for thousands of years before that. So, your non-native claim breaks down because both peoples have been in the region for centuries. Israel was made for Jews that DiDN'T live in the Israel region.

I'm not going to get into an argument over this because it won't end well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:17:39 pm

Thanks for the history lesson. what was it purpose, again? you need to catch up on conversations, smjjames, it was Kot that referred to them as Non-natives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 07, 2016, 03:25:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 02:46:11 pm

The best example of Israel not being a good idea is the fact that the second they stop having external help from USA they would get steamrolled into ground...

Ahaha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) no (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War). Arabs are trash at war, and while Israeli aren't the best army in the world, they're good enough to savage people who believe that Allah guides their bullets individually like no tomorrow - even if you forget the "little" fact that they have nuclear weapons. Which, BTW, were not given to them by Americans, but rather by cooperative efforts with France. USA was actually rather miffed by Israel having made nukes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel#US_pressure)

Do I need to mention that no Arab state is even close to producing their own nuclear weapons? Hell, they don't even have their own domestic conventional weaponry, they subsist purely on buying foreign weapons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 03:27:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 12:39:43 pm

>Arab boycott
>Dutch banks.
>Implying Dutch banks are Arab.

>implying they're not

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 03:29:56 pm

The non-native argument is still BS because both groups in the Israel-Palestine region have tribes who have been living there for centuries, even millenia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

So? that wasn't even remotely the meat of his or my argument.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 03:33:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 03:27:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 12:39:43 pm

>Arab boycott
>Dutch banks.
>Implying Dutch banks are Arab.

>implying they're not

I was being sarcastic and poking his logic.

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:31:14 pm

So? that wasn't even remotely the meat of his or my argument.

What was the meat of your and his argument? The borders?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 03:35:35 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 12:36:32 pm

Btw, i assume you have a proof that Mekorot is breaching international law?

No, why would I need that? I am not the one accusing them, I'm just passing on general knowledge (at least, it was public enough to be on national news here back when it was brought up) Look up the UN reports yourself.

The Arab boycott against Israel that started in 1945 you mentioned has little to do with it by the way, even though it's definitly a thing. It has more to do with our government urging business to try and be compliant with international law regarding doing business with companies operating in territories which are considered by the UN to be illegally occupied.

Don't get me wrong. I fully acknowledge and support Israel's right to exist, and defend itself. That doesn't mean I can't critisize it as well for immoral practice, for example when some New York governor is trying to boycott our national business by using false arguments on behalf of Israel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 03:36:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 03:33:18 pm

I was being sarcastic and poking his logic.

I was just having a laff too, all good nature

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 03:40:21 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:01:31 pm

I'll try to ignore most of what you said, because heil. But can you point a single country on this planet that isn't made up with a made up border?

...any of them whose borders are mostly adherent to local culture and population and are not arbitrary chunks of land in middle of someones else backyard?
I mean, right, basically everyone has some problems when it comes to that but there's a difference between a (only an example) minority being not satisfied with their representation and wanting to have their own country based on them being different in their culture but still being peaceful and accepting of other people living there, and settling down on a piece of land owned by someone else based on that there was a different country there BCE that you can vaguely trace back to and then starting shit with neighbors who are already pissed off by you doing basically whatever you want.

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:01:31 pm

And btw, if Israel is employing shady as fuck techniques to get rid of non-natives (I persume it's the Arabs), how come the Arab population in Israel and the Palestinian Authority grew significantly yet Jews population in Arab countries shrank significantly?

Arab population grows because Arab fucks and has babies on the land their whole family lived on.
Jew population shrank because Jew moved to Israel and then fucked and had babies there because it's their land now.

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:17:39 pm

Thanks for the history lesson. what was it purpose, again? you need to catch up on conversations, smjjames, it was Kot that referred to them as Non-natives.

I didin't. When I said non-native I meant the Americans from the example. While, yes, that's not a perfect example but then I don't think you can give a perfect one because Israel situation is so goddamn unique.

Quote from: Sergarr on December 07, 2016, 03:25:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 02:46:11 pm

The best example of Israel not being a good idea is the fact that the second they stop having external help from USA they would get steamrolled into ground...

Ahaha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) no (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War). Arabs are trash at war, and while Israeli aren't the best army in the world, they're good enough to savage people who believe that Allah guides their bullets individually like no tomorrow - even if you forget the "little" fact that they have nuclear weapons. Which, BTW, were not given to them by Americans, but rather by cooperative efforts with France. USA was actually rather miffed by Israel having made nukes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel#US_pressure)

Do I need to mention that no Arab state is even close to producing their own nuclear weapons? Hell, they don't even have their own domestic conventional weaponry, they subsist purely on buying foreign weapons.

The only reason Israel is so good at war is because:
A) USA helped them train.
B) USA supplied them until they got it going.
C) USA provides them with political and economical support.
D) Got nukes from France, also external help.
Sure, if USA said that they're not going to support Jews they wouldn't spontanously dissapear but, provided they don't get support from somewhere else, but in the long run they would finally collapse.
And Arab isin't trash at war. Arab is actually, CONSIDERING WHAT THEY'RE WORKING WITH, fucking genius at war. They make effective weapons out of literal shit. They utilize tactics that are most suitable for their situation and their fanaticism helps them if anything - while it seems retarded, the simple calculation that taking out few dozen men and military-grade equipment for the cost of losing a truck with explosives and one man checks out. Just imagine what they could do if they had actual industry.
Though, I agree, in the current state of Arab that was a hyperbole at best.

Also, eh, I don't say this in the spirit of "REMOVE JEW REMOVE JEW", since trying to unfuck what was fucked would bring even more fuckery, but rather that the Israelis aren't the good guys here (not that Arab is, for that matter) and the Arab boycott is completly and perfectly fucking understandable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 03:48:10 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 03:40:21 pm

Arab population grows because Arab fucks and has babies on the land their whole family lived on.
Jew population shrank because Jew moved to Israel and then fucked and had babies there because it's their land now.

Nonsense. the Stork deliver babies. it's common knowledge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 03:40:21 pm

Also, eh, I don't say this in the spirit of "REMOVE JEW REMOVE JEW", since trying to unfuck what was fucked would bring even more fuckery, but rather that the Israelis aren't the good guys here (not that Arab is, for that matter) and the Arab boycott is completly and perfectly fucking understandable.

If anyone has been treating the Palestinians badly, it's the Arab nations themselves. They're not welcome anywhere. The Arab boycot towards Israel as a whole is unjust and hypocritical, and their continued meddling contributes as much to the continuation of conflict as Israel's colonization of occupied territory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on December 07, 2016, 04:09:57 pm

Yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 04:29:08 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 03:35:35 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 12:36:32 pm

Btw, i assume you have a proof that Mekorot is breaching international law?

No, why would I need that? I am not the one accusing them, I'm just passing on general knowledge (at least, it was public enough to be on national news here back when it was brought up) Look up the UN reports yourself.

The Arab boycott against Israel that started in 1945 you mentioned has little to do with it by the way, even though it's definitly a thing. It has more to do with our government urging business to try and be compliant with international law regarding doing business with companies operating in territories which are considered by the UN to be illegally occupied.

Don't get me wrong. I fully acknowledge and support Israel's right to exist, and defend itself. That doesn't mean I can't critisize it as well for immoral practice, for example when some New York governor is trying to boycott our national business by using false arguments on behalf of Israel.

Ha, didn't catch your reply.

The validity of that report is crucial to determine whether the New York governor is using a false argument or not, right? because if that report is false, then that Dutch company is simply boycotting an Israeli company for being Israeli (even if unknowingly).

That report is obviously false, it doesn't even match the official PA water usage data and the reasons that this report ever seen the light of day is because of the same reasons that fueled the Arab boycott.

Look, Mekorot is in charge of supplying water to the palestinians so if it wants to comply to International Law (Oslo Accords) it must operate within the West Bank.
does it pump water from the mountain Aquifer from within the West Bank? yes, to some minimal extent (Not remotely to the same extent palestinians pump water in pirate wells). does it sell some of that water to Israelis? yes. but that's just because Israel and the PA have established a mutual water management agency that distribute water between them. Mekorot also takes water from the Sea of Galilee and sell it to palestinians (Cheaper than what they sell it to me, btw), Mekorot takes water from Israel's desalination plants and sell them at a cheaper price to palestinians and Mekorot also takes water from the Sea of Galilee and Israel's water reservoirs and artificially recharge the mountain Aquifer. after all of this, the net gain for palestinians well exceeds even the illegal pumping by palestinians that pose a serious threat to theirs and Israel's Mountain Aquifer water quality. And not only Mekorot delivers far more than what it pumps from within the West Bank, it also supplies significantly more water than agreed upon in the Oslo accords.

Quote from: Covenant on December 07, 2016, 04:05:25 pm

Might as well get all the specious accusations of anti-semitism contained to the same couple of pages - Danish doctors want to ban circumcision for the under-18s. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denmark-considering-banning-circumcision-for-children-under-18s-a7459291.html)

Here's hoping it comes to pass.

It's a barbaric tradition that should be stopped. still doesn't excuse antisemitism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 05:28:39 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

If anyone has been treating the Palestinians badly, it's the Arab nations themselves. They're not welcome anywhere. The Arab boycot towards Israel as a whole is unjust and hypocritical, and their continued meddling contributes as much to the continuation of conflict as Israel's colonization of occupied territory.

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 03:40:21 pm

(not that Arab is, for that matter)

Quote from: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 04:29:08 pm

still doesn't excuse antisemitism.

For future reference - I'm not antisemitist, I hate Germans too! And muslims! And Russians! And French! And Americans! And British! And everyone else, including Poles!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 05:34:49 pm

u sound like xenos m8 are you sure you're not at least super heretic or somethin

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 05:58:09 pm

Everyone else includes xenos and heretics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

The German Constitutional Court ruled today that ultra-conservtive muslim girls cannot use their religion as an excuse to not take part in a school's mixed (mandatory) swimming classes.
The case was brought to court by an 11 year old muslim girl that claimed that even a burkini is not allowed by islamic dresscode. According to the girl, a wet burkini would show the shapes of her body. According to the court's judges, this is not the case.

The girl initially went to court after her refusal to join the swimming classes got her a bad grade for gymnastics. After inital loss, and lost appeal, the case eventually ended up with the Constitutional Court, which has now, again, ruled against the girl's claim.

The main argument used by the court to deny the girl the right to not participate in mixed swimming classes was that 'islam has no binding rules about any dresscode whatsoever'.

It is expected that the court's motivation will be referred to in the discussion that is taking place in Germany about a general burka ban.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/duits-hof-moslimmeisjes-moeten-meedoen-met-schoolzwemmen~a4429908/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/duits-hof-moslimmeisjes-moeten-meedoen-met-schoolzwemmen~a4429908/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:26:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

burkini

what

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:29:45 pm

Can't she just wear one that's a bit loose (not TOO loose obviously)? I doubt they're training to become olympic swimmers, so, drag is a non-issue.

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:26:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

burkini

what

It's like a burqa, or maybe a hijab, except for water.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:32:23 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:29:45 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:26:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

burkini

what

It's like a burqa, or maybe a hijab, except for water.

why

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:33:37 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:32:23 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:29:45 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:26:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

burkini

what

It's like a burqa, or maybe a hijab, except for water.

why

Because religion. Seriously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 06:34:14 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:26:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 07, 2016, 06:23:52 pm

burkini

what

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/sSV1Rx6.png)

when you wanna chill at the beach but obey sharia law

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:37:21 pm

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I SEE ANKLES
AND WRISTS
AND OH GOD NO THE FACE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Spoiler: New Muslim swimming suits when? (click to show/hide)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/03/09/34E0B9C700000578-3623351-image-a-3_1464942505904.jpg)(http://www.citymetric.com/sites/default/files/article_2015/04/470638548.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:39:46 pm

Hazmat gear isn't meant for swimming, Kot....

edit: *sees the second pic* Okay, now you're getting ridiculous Kot..... Wonder what that second pic is though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 06:52:46 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2016, 06:39:46 pm

Hazmat gear isn't meant for swimming, Kot....

edit: *sees the second pic* Okay, now you're getting ridiculous Kot..... Wonder what that second pic is though.

Yeah I was surprised cos that's clearly Brighton Beach and last I recalled they didn't have any mass killings down there

Turns out it's a bunch of people larping as dead bodies for some social justice reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:54:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 06:52:46 pm

Yeah I was surprised cos that's clearly Brighton Beach and last I recalled they didn't have any mass killings down there

Turns out it's a bunch of people larping as dead bodies for some social justice reason

Bunch of people larping to raise awarness about muslim imigrants drowning while trying to get into Europe.
I would use a better picture but I have trouble finding one. :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 06:54:49 pm

No Christian, Shiite or Alawite immigrants tho, cos they're with Assad so we need to kill them
t. le happy fuck borders and shit man

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 06:58:24 pm

Well... if you’re born to hang, you’ll never drown. :*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 07, 2016, 07:01:55 pm

Religious people inventing workarounds to their idiotic religious rules is both inspiring and depressing.

Reminds me of the orthodox Jews invention of "Saturday" electric machines: since they can't "start a fire" and hence, "logically", can't turn on electricity, they have devised a light switch that has the plastic part as separate and doesn't actually do anything, a sensor that "sees" the state of the plastic switch and a chip that once the sensors detects the plastic is in the right position to turn the lights on, issues a short delay and then starts randomizing numbers until it hits one that turns the light on and walla, the religious dude is both turning and not turning, but mostly not directly turning, the light on, which is perfectly kosher for some.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2016, 07:07:14 pm

BUT HE HAD TO MOVE HIS FINGER!?!
WHAT A HERETIC!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2016, 07:08:13 pm

absolutely H E R E T I C A L

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 07, 2016, 07:54:49 pm

Here is for heresy. I hope Assad wins. Hah!

Well, him or anyone who can possibly cling on to that soap in the bath of a war zone it has become. Someone who is not a beard-chomping lunatic, of course. I say let the Russians have that prize, or offer a decent counter-bid.

Of course, it is worth to keep in mind that many of the migrants are not Syrian refugees. Many are Afghans and Africans (north and sub-Saharan). I doubt that stream will dry up when the Syrian one does. Then, with the most immediate emergency over, will come the question if moving to a richer nation for a better life is a valid reason of entry and asylum. There is also the question what will happen to the sentiment that Europe owes it to them to keep the borders relatively open, when the immediate crisis is over.

(And, naturally, what is decided tomorrow will decide what happens a few years down the line, when the really great droughts start kicking in. This will not be a good time for someone who indentifies doing the right thing as doing the thing that feels good. There will be a lot of awful descisions to take. Doing what would make one feel like a good person is not always the right thing to do, to help everyone.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 08, 2016, 03:10:51 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 07, 2016, 07:54:49 pm

Of course, it is worth to keep in mind that many of the migrants are not Syrian refugees. Many are Afghans and Africans (north and sub-Saharan). I doubt that stream will dry up when the Syrian one does. Then, with the most immediate emergency over, will come the question if moving to a richer nation for a better life is a valid reason of entry and asylum. There is also the question what will happen to the sentiment that Europe owes it to them to keep the borders relatively open, when the immediate crisis is over.

(And, naturally, what is decided tomorrow will decide what happens a few years down the line, when the really great droughts start kicking in. This will not be a good time for someone who indentifies doing the right thing as doing the thing that feels good. There will be a lot of awful descisions to take. Doing what would make one feel like a good person is not always the right thing to do, to help everyone.)

Uh, no, just leaving for a richer country is not enough to gain asylum. That has been solved. The issue is how to filter those from legitimate asylum claims.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 08, 2016, 04:48:51 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 08, 2016, 03:10:51 pm

Uh, no, just leaving for a richer country is not enough to gain asylum. That has been solved. The issue is how to filter those from legitimate asylum claims.

That's not even the main issue. Determining someone's place of origin isn't that hard in most cases. Main issues are the clogging of the legal system, and the countries the economic migrants come from, like for example Algeria and Morocco. They won't take them back, or at the very least, don't cooperate with their repatriation efficiently.

So first they get here, then they enter initial procedure, which determines they are not refugees but economic migrants and will need to go back where they came from. Then they appeal, and appeal to high court after that. By then, 4-5 years will have passed in legal procedures alone. Then, once they can't appeal any further, their country of origin will not take them back, because they lost their passport or somesuch. Can't put them on a plane if the recipient airport won't allow you to land.

Our government is currently looking into the possibility of forming refugee deals with Morocco and a few other countries that account for the main body of economic migrants, like the Turkey deal, as in, everyone arriving on their own power will be immediatly sent back, and applying for residence is only possible from the country of origin itself. I don't think it'll come to pass, if only because there still are some grounds to grant asylum status to refugees from these countries (like persecution for homosexuality), so EU human rights commission will probably not allow our government to make such deals.

EDIT: oh, perhaps the latter is what you meant by 'filtering the legitimate asylum claims'. I assumed you meant filtering the Syrians from the 'Syrians'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on December 08, 2016, 05:40:31 pm

It's not like even the actual Syrians will stay long after the war is over. They'll all have to go back eventually, since refugee status expires when there's no more war in wherever they came from. Taking that view it's actually a good thing that they stay unintegrated and living in camps or public housing, since they'll be easier to find and ship off that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 08, 2016, 05:47:42 pm

Keeping people in fenced camps surrounded by armed men, I'm sure it would go over well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 08, 2016, 06:25:07 pm

They'd probably keep trying to wander into Europe, fearing being one battle away from making up a mass grave or being enslaved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: PanH on December 08, 2016, 09:24:01 pm

Making a refugee camp in Syria is no different than just letting them where they are, in cities like Aleppo and such. It'd just create a new slum, increases western resentment, and overall would make good Isis recruitment grounds as well as making islamists harder to target (what, you want to bomb those islamists ? but that's a refugee camp you're bombing !). And the same could probably be said of anyone else that got hold of the camp.
And refugee camps make terrible defending positions. No one would ever think about guarding one : the density of population, the conditions (temporary camp, etc) make so that infiltration and general confusion/panic are going to be huge. There's better things to do than to put guards as target practice.

Either you're making fortified refuge camps and that's a terrible idea military wise, either you're just setting up 'free' refuge camps, and nothing really changed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 09, 2016, 06:15:24 am

The Dutch court has found Geert Wilders guilty of 'group insult' and inciting to discriminate, but not guilty on inciting hatred. He will not be penalized, as the court's opinion is that the fact that he is convicted, is punishment enough in itself.

I'm unsure if this means he is disqualified from ever becoming a member of government, because he has a criminal record now. I hope so. I do recall there's some law that forbids people with a criminal record from becoming minister, or PM (but not from becoming member of parliament).

EDIT: Wilders himself was not present at the verdict, but he Twittered as soon as it was ruled:
"Three PVV (his political party) - hating judges have declared Moroccans to be a race and convicted me, and half of the Netherlands with me. It's insane", and announced he will appeal to the High Court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 09, 2016, 11:43:39 am

Meanwhile, it appears that the lid cannot quite stay on in Germany. The lid intended to avoid a backlash against migrants overall, when some migrants are found complicit in sex crime and, recently, murder. Naturally, that lid creates more scalding steam than the pot would do by itself.
I shall make a confession. It rather revolts me how the first concern in the minds of (some) state and media authorities seems to be how to hide and negate the possible fallout from the crimes of certain groups, and to ensure nothing can risk upsetting the current arrangement. That the safety, the very lives, apparently, of native citizens are, in effect, worth less than the warm, self-indulgent feeling of false generousity one gets when one calls for the borders to be open and everyone allowed in to stay, no questions asked.
The worst of it is that it is not working. It will only bolster the importance and range of these 'false news' sources. It would appear that they come in flavours False and 'False'. Demonstrably untrue or not aligned with the correct and proper narrative. In their fright and worry to not frighten people into the arms of reactionary elements, they fail to see that the silence and the defensiveness does that quite splendidly on its own.
Now, I do not intend it as a boot particularly aimed at Germany's rear, as it were, for I was taught to not throw stones in glass houses, and policy in Sweden is no better. None at all, and I believe part of the reason why this upsets me so is that it strikes so close to home. It is something I have had to see up close, and it is sickening, infuriating, and does more to boil one's blood than what any of the clowns, that government and media are so afraid of helping, could manage on their own.
I am just fed up with it. I really am. I am a horrible old xenophobe, or so I have been told, but a degree of xenophobia is evidently warranted in these times...


Reguarding Geert Wilders, I do not think I know enough about the man to really contribute a worthy opinion. He does appear as mainly a show man, someone who has found a tidy little racket and is making the most of it. The sort of person that people could secretly give support, nose pinched, because they are tired of the current arrangement and he profiles himself as the one to undo it.

On the face of it, the sentencing seems odd. A panic reaction to halt his influence, and to pin him to the wall with something. It did not seem that hateful or agitating a speech, but I do not know the context, and I do not know Dutch, and how it would have come across in that language or in the Dutch environment. It was, however, a rather aggressive and ungraceful expression, in my mind. But it seems quite clear that it is mainly used to clip his wings in this case. But once again, I do not know.
Of course, I doubt it will help to stop him, or the sentiment he represents.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 09, 2016, 01:04:25 pm

The similarities to US gun control, except being new instead of always being there, are astounding to me.

But maybe I'm reading too much into the irrationality of saying 'never make immigration any stricter ever' and equating it with 'never put any regulation on firearms ever'. Or the opposite end of 'ban all guns/kick out all immigrants'. Obviously no one realistically believes the latter in a serious manner (yes I understand there will still be some who do, unfortunately), but it's the extreme and that's what the people who don't want any restrictions believe will happen otherwise. >.>

Plus, both kill people (yes, rates of gun ownership directly correlate with female homicide rate, which is probably the single most influential argument someone can make for 'ban all guns', as shitty of an idea as it is).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lordinquisitor on December 09, 2016, 02:15:12 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 09, 2016, 11:43:39 am

Meanwhile, it appears that the lid cannot quite stay on in Germany. The lid intended to avoid a backlash against migrants overall, when some migrants are found complicit in sex crime and, recently, murder.

Actually none of that is covered up in germany. There recently was a "scandal" when a german news show (Tagesschau) didn`t report when a migrant apparently raped and killed a girl.

But.. Murder is usually never really reported. At least not in the bigger newspapers/news shows, but rather in the papers of the region where the murder happened. The murder of someone simply isn`t of translocal interest.

Ofc, this provided fodder for the anti-media / anti-migrant fraction and launched a completely unnecessary discussion.  The anti-migrant fraction in germany is notoriously unhinged, actively malevolent, stupid and loud.*

*barring the one or two people who might actually be reasonable, as always.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 09, 2016, 07:38:31 pm

Hmm. That does put things in a different light. Not all-together, but certainly more than enough to re-evaluate my stance. I shall have to do a bit more work, see what I can learn to put it in better context. I did not know of that standard, I must confess. I'm rather happy to do so, now.
On that note, it was rather silly and shortsighted of me to lash this question so firmly to that particular case by choice of word. It is broader than that. Well, well, I have some catching-up to do.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 09, 2016, 01:04:25 pm

The similarities to US gun control, except being new instead of always being there, are astounding to me.

But maybe I'm reading too much into the irrationality of saying 'never make immigration any stricter ever' and equating it with 'never put any regulation on firearms ever'. Or the opposite end of 'ban all guns/kick out all immigrants'. Obviously no one realistically believes the latter in a serious manner (yes I understand there will still be some who do, unfortunately), but it's the extreme and that's what the people who don't want any restrictions believe will happen otherwise. >.>

Plus, both kill people (yes, rates of gun ownership directly correlate with female homicide rate, which is probably the single most influential argument someone can make for 'ban all guns', as shitty of an idea as it is).

I do think there are similarities, if one looks for them. Naturally, they are very different, but there is an odd tendency towards a reinforced binary stance in both. All or nothing, like. Any concession towards either is treason, a breach against what should be the natural stance, as it were. It might be a case of "how many potential lives is this ideal worth?", but I am rather out of my depth to be certain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 11, 2016, 11:46:02 am

Quote from: Covenant on December 08, 2016, 05:46:18 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 08, 2016, 03:10:51 pm

Uh, no, just leaving for a richer country is not enough to gain asylum. That has been solved. The issue is how to filter those from legitimate asylum claims.

It hasn't been solved though. There are people arguing against the existence of borders at all - not just arguing, in fact, but actively committing criminal acts to aid illegal immigrants in smuggling themselves from Calais to the UK, for example.

Not to mention last year's furore over 'HIV tourists', where the person bringing up the problem wasn't attacked on the grounds of being incorrect, he was attacked because it was somehow unseemly to complain about foreign nationals accessing a healthcare system they hadn't paid for in order to receive free treatment.

Just because you or various reasonable people agree that 'wanting a better life in a rich country' isn't enough to be allowed admittance/gained asylum does not mean that it's universally accepted or that the problem is solved.

It's the law of the land. The fact that some people disagree isn't a problem, it's called freedom of opinion. Some people would want to stick all muslims in death camps, but that's not a problem because the law of the land prevent that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 11, 2016, 08:35:18 pm

Asylum seekers have no obligations under the Dublin Agreement. All it says is the member state that the asylum seeker first state it can be proven they earliest entered is responsible for processing the asylum claim.

This does, however, place an entirely unfair burden on EU border states.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 11, 2016, 08:40:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 11, 2016, 08:35:18 pm

Asylum seekers have no obligations under the Dublin Agreement. All it says is the member state that the asylum seeker first state it can be proven they earliest entered is responsible for processing the asylum claim.

This does, however, place an entirely unfair burden on EU border states.

Which is why there's been negotiations over redistribution for years now. It doesn't work though, as long as there are countries refusing to take part.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 11, 2016, 08:57:02 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 11, 2016, 08:40:55 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 11, 2016, 08:35:18 pm

Asylum seekers have no obligations under the Dublin Agreement. All it says is the member state that the asylum seeker first state it can be proven they earliest entered is responsible for processing the asylum claim.

This does, however, place an entirely unfair burden on EU border states.

Which is why there's been negotiations over redistribution for years now. It doesn't work though, as long as there are countries refusing to take part.

It certainly doesn't seem like it's designed to be able to handle a refugee crisis like what Europe is having now, just the usual average.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on December 11, 2016, 11:32:45 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 09, 2016, 11:43:39 am

Meanwhile, it appears that the lid cannot quite stay on in Germany. The lid intended to avoid a backlash against migrants overall, when some migrants are found complicit in sex crime and, recently, murder. Naturally, that lid creates more scalding steam than the pot would do by itself.
I shall make a confession. It rather revolts me how the first concern in the minds of (some) state and media authorities seems to be how to hide and negate the possible fallout from the crimes of certain groups, and to ensure nothing can risk upsetting the current arrangement. That the safety, the very lives, apparently, of native citizens are, in effect, worth less than the warm, self-indulgent feeling of false generousity one gets when one calls for the borders to be open and everyone allowed in to stay, no questions asked.
The worst of it is that it is not working. It will only bolster the importance and range of these 'false news' sources. It would appear that they come in flavours False and 'False'. Demonstrably untrue or not aligned with the correct and proper narrative. In their fright and worry to not frighten people into the arms of reactionary elements, they fail to see that the silence and the defensiveness does that quite splendidly on its own.
Now, I do not intend it as a boot particularly aimed at Germany's rear, as it were, for I was taught to not throw stones in glass houses, and policy in Sweden is no better. None at all, and I believe part of the reason why this upsets me so is that it strikes so close to home. It is something I have had to see up close, and it is sickening, infuriating, and does more to boil one's blood than what any of the clowns, that government and media are so afraid of helping, could manage on their own.
I am just fed up with it. I really am. I am a horrible old xenophobe, or so I have been told, but a degree of xenophobia is evidently warranted in these times...

Can't people avoid binary thought? Bad and good people exist in every single social group.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 10:17:57 am

Naturally. Although I did fail to express it properly, I believe it is one of those things that can be safely assumed. There is, of course, much more gradiance to the whole business. There always is. However, stamping on a disclaimber to express such a basic thing would be rather needless. Of course, if not doing it does make me seem entirely binary in my thinking, then perhaps I ought to, for clarity, or at least include it properly.

Another reason to why I do not like to use such disclaimbers is that they have a tendency to turn into a tired exorcise in the bleeding obvious, as it were. "But there is more to it, there is good and bad people both, let us not get bogged down in We and Them", and the likes. All very important facts to consider, but it is a very basic observation. With all that said, however, something has gone rather wrong if I have managed to express the sort of entirely binary line of thinking I dislike so. I will have to think of a way to make that disclaimber come accross.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 07:47:43 am

Our state secretary of Safety and Justice has announced that, 'to prevent bad things like Cologne happening', asylum seekers who have come into contact with the police for causing nuisance (like public intoxication and sexual harassment), will be forced to forego any Old Year's eve celebrations. They will all get a temporary access ban from public areas for the duration of Old Year's eve and New Year's day, and will be kept locked inside the refugee shelter locations they're housed at.
The 'notorious troublemakers', for the most part, are Moroccans and Algerians, whose chances for asylum are hopeless, but are stuck in the system's inability to extradite them. Many of them first arrived in Germany, so they will have to be sent back there first, and then Germany needs to extradite them back to Morocco and Algeria (that is, if the recipient countries agree to take them back). This procedure takes ages. Many asylum seekers have been living in shelter locations for years.

TBH I'm not sure this will hold. The state secretary might want this, but there's still a thing like ne bis in idem, and a constitutional protection against freedom of movement being impaired without due trial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on December 13, 2016, 04:45:29 pm

*facepalm*

This temporary ban paints Germany as evil fascists they fear to be while doing practically nothing about the actual problem.
At least they are doing something I suppose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 05:02:22 pm

Quote from: DreamerGhost on December 13, 2016, 04:45:29 pm

*facepalm*

This temporary ban paints Germany as evil fascists they fear to be while doing practically nothing about the actual problem.
At least they are doing something I suppose.

*ahem* Martinuzz is from the Netherlands.

I do agree that it's rather extreme. Not sure why they have to be sent to Germany first and THEN extradite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2016, 05:53:01 pm

I have a bad memory for names, but I do believe it is the Dublin immigration deal that says that all immigrants have to be processed by the EU member they first apply for asylum in. Therefore it is also that country that have to extradite them.

But that is actually irrelevant, because the real problem is that they can't be extradited anyway, because they can't deport people to countries that don't want to accept them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 06:01:42 pm

Then at least try to assimilate them? They shouldn't be stuck in the refugee camps.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2016, 06:24:16 pm

They aren't stuck, they are staying by their own choice.

And frankly I don't think integration of people whose first interaction with the new state is a refusal to comply with it's laws (and then throwing a tantrum, laying themselves on the floor and refusing to move until they get what they want) is going to be very successful.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 06:27:07 pm

Good point, I didn't know what the specific situation was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2016, 06:39:34 pm

On second thought I must confess that I spoke out of my rectum: The situation described (that people can leave whenever they want) is what is true here in Sweden. I simply assumed that it would work similarly in Germany, but I don't know for certain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 06:49:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 05:02:22 pm

I do agree that it's rather extreme. Not sure why they have to be sent to Germany first and THEN extradite.

EU regulations state that an asylum seeker has to apply for asylum in the first country they registered in. For most Moroccans and Algerians here in the Netherlands, that is Germany.
But first they can appeal in Dutch court against having to apply for asylum in Germany. Which is doomed to fail unless they can prove their first country of entry is the Netherlands.
If they exhausted all appeals for that, up to High Court, they can be extradited to Germany, where they can begin their asylum procedure (which has near zero chance, unless they can prove their life is in danger because of their sexuality, they'll have to go back to Algeria or Morocco, because those are safe countries).
Still, they can stall for years. First in the Netherlands, then in Germany.
It's not unheard for the whole appeal procedure to take 4-5 years in the Netherlands, plus similar in Germany.
Those that really want to stall, appeal to the EU human rights court after a national high court dismisses appeal. That will get them some more years of waiting out the procedure.
Not sure why anyone would prefer wasting the good years of their life like that over going back to Morocco or Algeria though. It's an empty life of mostly sitting in a vegetative state in an asylum center, not being allowed to work and with minimum allowance (which sadly makes petty crime an appealing alternative).

For some reason the myth in many African countries is still alive that, as long as you manage to get a residence permit in the Western EU, you'll get job opportunities, or bountiful benefits and be set for life.
The harsh reality is those who do manage to get residence, find themselves underpaid if they can find a job at all, or stuck in deplorable poverty when they are depending on benefits.

It's true that 40 years ago social welfare benefits made for a decent living. Nowadays, after 40 years of not correcting the social benefits for purchasing power, it's a poverty trap with no perspective. I wish the economic refugees from the better off African countries would learn that there are no golden mountains over here either.
If they'd just put the money, time and effort it takes to try to get a permit through endless legal fighting into setting up a living in their country of origin, they'd be better off, I'm quite sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 06:56:28 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 13, 2016, 06:24:16 pm

They aren't stuck, they are staying by their own choice.

Yes and no.
Yes, they are staying there by own choice insofar, that they choose to appeal endlessly in the hopes of getting asylum.

And no, those awaiting asylum procedures, without official permit status are kinda stuck in the refugee shelters. The only other choice they have is rent (illegally) in the private sector (which is unaffordable unless they have some illegal income source), or sleep in the streets. Social housing is only available for residents.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2016, 07:01:53 pm

Staying in the country by their own choice was what I was getting at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 13, 2016, 07:21:36 pm

I do wish that there was a large European information campaign in the affected migrant areas. A great, big one, with posters, pamphlets and internet videos. Something along the lines of "Europe is, unfortunately, not heaven, and spending your savings and risking your lives might not be worth it. Do not believe the travel agents. We cannot guarantee your safety en-route, nor that your asylum claim will be accepted nor that it will be an improvement to your life. Further, Europe is not as rich as it seems, the weather is dreadful, living costs are high _{and you will have to adapt to women, both western and otherwise, being equals to you.}"

I dread to think what these smugglers might be telling people to sell them the tickets. I imagine a chap is liable to be disappointed, when all their fairytales turn out false. It would be bad enough, had you spent the sort of money they demanded for it. The boating trip on the way would hardly help. I think these sort of campaigns might at least help somewhat. Even though attempting to convince people to stay where they are would not be the sort of thing that would earn you many Christmas cards, it would probably be better for everyone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 07:21:46 pm

The Washington Post predicts that Putin's next target for election manipulation will be Germany

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 07:29:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 07:21:46 pm

The Washington Post predicts that Putin's next target for election manipulation will be Germany

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea)

They're already worried about it.

http://www.politico.eu/article/german-mps-fret-russian-interference-in-2017-election/

http://www.politico.eu/article/europe-russia-hacking-elections/

Of course though, Russia has lost the element of surprise here. It may also be that being in fear is enough for Putin, but no guarantee.edit: Then again, the WaPo article says that the Russian operation has already begun in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 13, 2016, 07:34:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 07:21:46 pm

The Washington Post predicts that Putin's next target for election manipulation will be Germany

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea)

Germany is doomed. If USA with all its power couldn't prevent itself from being suddenly overrun by Russian puppets within just one year, who managed to convert a staunchly anti-Russian party to a fervently pro-Russian one like it was nothing, then no one can.

Putin's political power level is simply too high for anyone to be able to stop him now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 13, 2016, 07:37:26 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 13, 2016, 07:21:36 pm

I do wish that there was a large European information campaign in the affected migrant areas. A great, big one, with posters, pamphlets and internet videos. Something along the lines of "Europe is, unfortunately, not heaven, and spending your savings and risking your lives might not be worth it. Do not believe the travel agents. We cannot guarantee your safety en-route, nor that your asylum claim will be accepted nor that it will be an improvement to your life. Further, Europe is not as rich as it seems, the weather is dreadful, living costs are high _{and you will have to adapt to women, both western and otherwise, being equals to you.}"

I dread to think what these smugglers might be telling people to sell them the tickets. I imagine a chap is liable to be disappointed, when all their fairytales turn out false. It would be bad enough, had you spent the sort of money they demanded for it. The boating trip on the way would hardly help. I think these sort of campaigns might at least help somewhat. Even though attempting to convince people to stay where they are would not be the sort of thing that would earn you many Christmas cards, it would probably be better for everyone.

In terms of countries that aren't at war and are reasonably safe, sure.

I'm not sure "the weather is a bit shit" will keep people from trying to flee war or persecution :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 07:42:42 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 13, 2016, 07:34:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 13, 2016, 07:21:46 pm

The Washington Post predicts that Putin's next target for election manipulation will be Germany

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/12/russias-next-election-operation-germany/?utm_term=.62242f128bea)

Germany is doomed. If USA with all its power couldn't prevent itself from being suddenly overrun by Russian puppets within just one year, who managed to convert a staunchly anti-Russian party to a fervently pro-Russian one like it was nothing, then no one can.

Putin's political power level is simply too high for anyone to be able to stop him now.

I think you're underestimating (or maybe overestimating) the political climate, the political climate in Germany is totally different from the one in the US. All he really has to do is find a chink in the armor, and ours happened to be a gaping hole, all he did was fan the flames that were already present in the political climate here in the US. He never created any fires, the fires were already present.

Plus we were so blinded by our hyperpartianship that we didn't see it until it was almost too late, at least publicly. Though the issues with our Democratic candidate didn't help either. edit: And likely also by the 'nah, it'll never happen' mentality.

Though this article would explain it better somewhat: http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/politics/obama-administration-russia-hacks-response/index.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 14, 2016, 02:28:59 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 15, 2016, 03:01:10 am

Blaming Russia really does sound like the easiest way out and to save face in explaning what happened, and happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 15, 2016, 06:43:56 am

Nuclear fraud scandal in France, 18 out of 58 nuclear reactors have been shut down effective immediatly.

The French nuclear watchdog ASN discovered, during a routine check of the reactor EPR at Flamanville, the reactor shell was made from steel that has a too high carbon concentration, which makes it less resistant to heat. The reactor has been immediatly shut down.

Further investigation by nuclear inspections from the US, China and four other countries revealed that more reactors had the same high carbon issue, and investigating further, possible fraud and forgery came to light at the factory Areva, which manufactures nuclear powerplant parts. The French Justice department has started an investigation.

Blocked files were found at Areva, which contained reports about flaws and imperfections of generators, hidden away from customers and authorities.
What's more, the files seem to contain forged documents, according to Pierre-Franck Chevet, director of ASN.

In total, 200 such files were found, the earliest stemming from the 1960s. A document from 2008 showed that a piece of disapproved steel was used for building the steam generator in the Fessenheim nuclear plant in the Elzas. This reactor, too, has been immediatly shut down.

According to Avera, tampering with documents has stopped in 2012, when quality control was improved.

It's extra embarrassing, since Areva was saved from bankrupcy earlier this year through a capital injection by the French state. This is still being investigated by the EU, as it might be a case of illegitimate state support.

Of the 18 shut down reactors, 6 have been restarted, because otherwise France would not have enough power to prevent blackouts, with nearly 80% of it's electricity being generated in nuclear plants. Another seven are soon to be restarted. The remaining 5 will remain closed for revision.

EDIT: apparently, the scandal was discovered this summer already, and the two specific power plant shutdowns I mentioned already occured back in September. It's just now come to the media's attention.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/problems-at-nuclear-components-supplier-spark-global-reviews-1481625005

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 15, 2016, 08:16:23 am

When you need to excuse, use Russia: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4032432/Pro-EU-think-tank-says-Russia-Syria-orchestrating-migrant-sex-attacks-swing-upcoming-German-elections.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 15, 2016, 08:20:30 am

/me thinks twice about clicking a Daily Mail link

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 15, 2016, 08:36:41 am

http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/wladimir-putin/propaganda-putin2sexmobs-49205588.bild.html
Original source

Quote

A previously unknown component resulting from the close cooperation of Russian, Syrian and other intelligence agencies and the Russian Mafia, says Russian expert Gustav Gressel ( European Council on Foreign Relations ).
"A part of the refugees from Iraq and Syria, if only a very small part, had connections with Assad or Saddam Hussein's secret services."
These people could be specifically targeted by secretaries or mafia trips and can be instrumentalized for disturbances, warns Gressel.

Normal day in Europe tbh, I don't think you need Moscow mafia when the new Germans do it all the time lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 15, 2016, 09:00:43 am

I don't speak no German, neither :o

But anyhow, it does seem a bit odd to say it's the ECFR saying it - as the headlines of the Mail, Sun, and Breitbart, among various other website are, from my Google search - when it's one dude who... works for them? Saying it.

Not that that makes it any less of a bizarre thing to say is "within the realm of possibility."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 15, 2016, 09:03:25 am

Just google translate it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 03:53:38 am

Citizens of the poorer quarters in Maastricht are pissed.
Yesterday saw the festive opening of the new highway tunnel for the A2. It's purpose is to lead high and heavy traffic under the city, to reduce city air pollution levels.

While most inhabitants are happy with it, those lving in the poor area near the tunnel exits are less pleased. They now get the full load of exhaust plumes blowing from the tunnel vents.
"With their glamorous prestige project they apparently didn't take the inhabitants into account, when they decided not to place air filters at the tunnel vent exits", a resident comments.

Protest groep Klaor Loch (Clean Air in the Limburg dialect) fears the pollution at the tunnel exits will only increase. "Is the health of poor and vulnerable people in our society not important?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 05:51:16 am

The German magazine Focus reports that a 12 year old German - Iraqi boy tried to commit a terrorist bombing attack on a christmans market in Germany.
He is suspected of having ties to IS.
On the 26th of november, the boy tried to detonate an improvised shrapnel bomb made from explosives and nails. The detonation failed, and the device did not go off.

Several days later he tried again. On the 5th of december, he hid a homemade bomb in a bag in some bushes just outside the Town Hall of Ludwigshafen.
Someone passing by noticed the bag, and warned the police. The explosives squad managed to safely detonate the bomb.

According to security services, the boy, who was born in the West German city of Ludwigshafen am Rhein, is extremely radicalized. He also appears to have been entertaining the thought of going to Syria to join IS. He is being held in a juvenile detention center now.

The public prosecutor has ordered an investigation into the boy's actions, who is being charged with extreme terrorist violence.
It is very unlikely that he will have to face court though. Because of his age, he cannot be held legally accountable for his actions. German criminal law only applies to persons age 14 and above.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/12-jarige-jongen-wilde-aanslag-plegen-op-duitse-kerstmarkt~a4435440/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/12-jarige-jongen-wilde-aanslag-plegen-op-duitse-kerstmarkt~a4435440/)
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/weihnachtsmarkt-in-ludwigshafen-im-auftrag-des-is-zwoelfjaehriger-wollte-nagelbombe-zuenden_id_6363417.html (http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/weihnachtsmarkt-in-ludwigshafen-im-auftrag-des-is-zwoelfjaehriger-wollte-nagelbombe-zuenden_id_6363417.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 06:20:27 am

God's sakes Germany sort your life out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 06:35:55 am

Surely there's no terrorist cells inside germany training children to become suicide bombers because they aren't legally accountable by local laws, nop.

There's only cultural enrichment, now for kids!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:05:42 am

Quote from: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 06:35:55 am

Surely there's no terrorist cells inside germany training children to become suicide bombers because they aren't legally accountable by local laws, nop.

There's only cultural enrichment, now for kids!

It's a terrible problem. As long as there are islamists out there preying on susceptible sods to turn into bombs-in-a-meatsuit, there's no real way to prevent this from happening, except either go full surveillance state, and / or put non-aryan German citizens in ghettos while deporting them to Poland.

I'm sure there's gonna be more cries to stop refugees from certain parts of society. Thing is though, a German born kid going islamowacko has jack shit to do with refugees. Changing refugee policy won't change German born kids falling victim to terrorist brainwashing.

The Cologne issue is a different matter though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:19:26 am

You leave Poland alone now
And in all seriousness, yeah changing refugee policy will affect it, especially with defeated jihadists from Aleppo coming home to Germany to recruit more susceptible sods.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:23:23 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:19:26 am

You leave Poland alone now
And in all seriousness, yeah changing refugee policy will affect it, especially with defeated jihadists from Aleppo coming home to Germany to recruit more susceptible sods.

They make up less than 0.01% of refugees (at least, those 'coming home', there's probably more newcomers though), and a jihadist recruiter doesn't need to come back home to Germany to recruit. There's this thing called the internet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 16, 2016, 07:26:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:05:42 am

I'm sure there's gonna be more cries to stop refugees from certain parts of society. Thing is though, a German born kid going islamowacko has jack shit to do with refugees. Changing refugee policy won't change German born kids falling victim to terrorist brainwashing.

A constant flow of immigrants increases segregation and poverty among immigrants while reducing the chances of getting any kind of decent life; constantly creating new members of the second and third generation immigrants demographies that terrorists love to recruit from. Reducing immigration reduces future pool of recruits, and means the immigrants and post-immigrate-generations already here needs to compete with less fresh arrivals over the insufficient opportunities available to them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:35:37 am

While they're born in germany, second and third generation immigrants with familial backgrounds that favor terrorist indoctrination are essentialy the best kind of recruit an organization like ISIS could want, IE an actual german citizen that can worry less about profiling and border control, and can more easily gain access to key locations closed to the public because he or she has an easier time getting a job in places not generally open to the public, such as factories, power plants, military instalations, etc.

What can be done about this without infringing the rights of migrants that don't want to blow up everyone who isn't muslim? Hell if I know, but germany is now a key strategic recruitment point for terrorist groups, and will continue to be for a long time. Historically, muslims have shown to be of the groups that are more resistant to adopting cultural and ethical norms different than their own, even while living in places where said things are the norm. This means that those muslims that have a radical religious familial background are very unlikely to ever change their minds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:41:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:23:23 am

They make up less than 0.01% of refugees (at least, those 'coming home', there's probably more newcomers though), and a jihadist recruiter doesn't need to come back home to Germany to recruit. There's this thing called the internet.

Yeah uncited statistics are completely meaningless, nor does it bear mentioning the value of veterans who have the conviction of killing inspiring children face to face, providing militiant training that can't be monitored on such mediums as the internet.
I.e. all they did in the summer of slaughter.
It's happening, it's happened, it will happen again, and keep happening

Quote from: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:35:37 am

What can be done about this without infringing the rights of migrants that don't want to blow up everyone who isn't muslim?

Actually have a border with security controls that vet people for links with terrorist groups

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:44:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:41:47 am

Actually have a border with security controls that vet people for links with terrorist groups

How exactly would you do that, when most refugees come from an area that no longer has any form of administration or public record, or independent observers?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:45:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:44:31 am

How exactly would you do that, when most refugees come from an area that no longer has any form of administration or public record, or independent observers?

Send them back to Turkey

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:47:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:45:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:44:31 am

How exactly would you do that, when most refugees come from an area that no longer has any form of administration or public record, or independent observers?

Send them back to Turkey

So Erdogan can select the IS fighters and send those back to Europe, and keep the good people as voting cattle?

EDIT: hmmwell now that I write that, you're right. That could work. As long as we just lock up all refugees that are deemed by Turkey to be valid asylum seekers. /sarcasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:53:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:41:47 am

Quote from: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:35:37 am

What can be done about this without infringing the rights of migrants that don't want to blow up everyone who isn't muslim?

Actually have a border with security controls that vet people for links with terrorist groups

Well, ye, that would certainly be nice, but what about all the ones that already came through during the Merkelreich's drive for uncapped cultural enrichment?

There's probably organized, well stablished cells in germany already, and its not like the non radical part of immigrants (and local vulnerable german dweebs) are immune to, uh, conversion. As immigrant crime soars, tensions also will, and if you put tension on an unemployed refugee guy that has the necessary background, it doesn't take much to make young rahman start thinking that uncle rashid's jihadist speeches don't sound so bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:57:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:47:45 am

So Erdogan can select the IS fighters and send those back to Europe, and keep the good people as voting cattle?

He wouldn't be able to send them to Europe if there actually was border control

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:47:45 am

EDIT: hmmwell now that I write that, you're right. That could work. As long as we just lock up all refugees that are deemed by Turkey to be valid asylum seekers. /sarcasm

Wouldn't matter what Turkey deemed, what would matter is that they have proof of identity to ensure they have no outstanding arrest warrants or connections with terrorist groups. Hell, the Serbians managed to catch a few just by checking their phone and finding they had videos of beheadings
Basic stuff, but European leaders have a deathwish

Quote from: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:53:18 am

Well, ye, that would certainly be nice, but what about all the ones that already came through during the Merkelreich's drive for uncapped cultural enrichment?

They should have thought of that before they started. Now they have to live with it

Quote from: TempAcc on December 16, 2016, 07:53:18 am

There's probably organized, well stablished cells in germany already, and its not like the non radical part of immigrants (and local vulnerable german dweebs) are immune to, uh, conversion. As immigrant crime soars, tensions also will, and if you put tension on an unemployed refugee guy that has the necessary background, it doesn't take much to make young rahman start thinking that uncle rashid's jihadist speeches don't sound so bad.

Fund them scholarships to some liberal arts degrees. If they go full dude weed they'll be too useless to jihad, moreover they'll have had a good few years away from the clerical environment surrounded by German liberals. The zealots that go through such a system would probably just end up more extreme but at least most would turn out with a degree qualification and a calmer outlook on life (particularly in regards to organized violence)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 08:01:48 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 07:57:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 07:47:45 am

So Erdogan can select the IS fighters and send those back to Europe, and keep the good people as voting cattle?

He wouldn't be able to send them to Europe if there actually was border control

I think you might have misunderstood the Turkey deal. It's a 1:1 tit for tat deal. For ever refugee we send back from Greece, one gets vetted in Turkey and sent to the EU. We're not seeing that yet because Turkey exploded in chaos not too long ago, plus the nescessary legal structure apparently still isn't poperly set up yet to process the asylum requests in Turkey.

Besides that, the largest refugee stream is now coming in through Italy. The Turkey deal has been pretty effective in decreasing arrivals in Greece. There is no Turkey deal about Italy though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 16, 2016, 08:12:28 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 08:01:48 am

I think you might have misunderstood the Turkey deal. It's a 1:1 tit for tat deal.

You misunderstand me, I'm not talking about the Turkey deal. If I thought the Turkey deal would've solved anything, I would've talked about it, as it is just increasing the problem whilst outsourcing Europe's border control to Turkey, which Erdogan finds hilarious. The end result will be everyone Europeans have sacrificed to maintain a noble image will have been sacrificed in vain as their cynical attempt at stemming mass immigration is entrusted to Erdogan, whilst their one objective at reducing mass immigration will fail with visa-free travel for Turkey (http://aa.com.tr/en/europe/eu-reiterates-commitment-to-turkey-deal/707431) going to make the open door Europe open wider.

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 08:01:48 am

For ever refugee we send back from Greece, one gets vetted in Turkey and sent to the EU. We're not seeing that yet because Turkey exploded in chaos not too long ago, plus the nescessary legal structure apparently still isn't poperly set up yet to process the asylum requests in Turkey.

You will never see it because the most powerful European leaders have never shown an interest in actually stemming unchecked migration, whilst opposing every leader that did so.

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2016, 08:01:48 am

Besides that, the largest refugee stream is now coming in through Italy. The Turkey deal has been pretty effective in decreasing arrivals in Greece. There is no Turkey deal about Italy though.

Again, no source, but I know it's significant regardless. They're coming in through North Africa, so once more the argument is the same, replace Turkey with Morocco or Tunisia and it all remains the same. With one exception, in that there would be a military intervention needed in Libya to restore a government over Libya

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 17, 2016, 10:27:28 am

(Moved from accidentally being in the non-EU thread)
Meanwhile in Poland, it is starting to look like a revolution could be gaining momentum.
For the second day in a row, opposition members are occupying the central hall of the parliament in Warsaw, in protest of the unconstitutional way the government pushed through the new national finances, and in protest of new laws restricting press freedom.

Yesterday the prime minister, and the leader of the PiS party found themselves locked inside the parliament, with members of opposition occupying the building, and thousands of protestors outside. It took the police all day and night to reach the entrance to parliament, using tear gass to disperse the masses, after which the prime minister and party leader left the area in a convoy of cars.

Not long after, the parliament's hall was re-occupied by members of 3 opposition parties. Journalist are welcome to go in and out, and can interview anyone. This will no longer be possible after 1st of januari, when the new press law will make independent journalist access to parliament extremely hard.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/leden-poolse-oppositie-bezetten-centrale-hal-parlement~a4436210/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/leden-poolse-oppositie-bezetten-centrale-hal-parlement%7Ea4436210/)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/protesters-block-polands-parliament-as-political-crisis-escalates (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/protesters-block-polands-parliament-as-political-crisis-escalates)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 17, 2016, 11:07:29 am

>Revolution
Are you actually serious? This is fucking ridiculous at best, PO (the Civic Platform) is a laughing stock. They are the worst hypocrites I've yet seen.
I mean, the great protesters who protest the laws against press freedom literally attacked TV reporters. And the national finances? They are literally protesting taking away the pensions from retired UB (Communist Polish Secret Service) agents. The whole thing is attack on democratically elected government and opposition trying to force back their rule (which is literally what they're saying at this point) - there is a reason why PIS has majority now (I would like to remind that back when we had PO Prime Minister they had 2,35 mln wiretapped phones, and after it was leaked by independent press a lot of journalist taking part in it were arrested in their homes. If press started relasing something that wasn't liked by the government then they lost dotations and in general were fucked sideways by the government).

Also, it's nowhere as bad. While, yes, the media that is currently controlled by opposition (unthinkable few years ago) is spreading hysteria and it spills over to foreign countries (which, by the way, is the same as during the elections... when it was proven that 3/4th of those foreign reporters were actually PO shills). The thousands before the parliment? The members of PIS were literally walking out the main gate, there was about ~1,5 thousand people (that's pushing it, people are saying on twitter that it's 500 or so) at best, and the "spontaneous" demonstration has a stage with speakers. And the horrible rubber bullets and police brutality? Come the fuck on... (https://twitter.com/SamPereira_/status/810036689087373313) And the occupation? The opposition is literally sitting in their chairs and taking photos of themselves. That's the occupation.

I mean, fuck, right, the PIS is not saints themselves, but compared to PO, KOD, and the rest they seem like it, and the whole overblown hype for POLAND IS FALLING OH MY GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING BREAKING THE CONSTITUTION shit is annoying at this point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 17, 2016, 12:05:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 17, 2016, 10:27:28 am

*snip*

It all started with the Marshal of the Sejm forbidding any journalists from entering the Sejm (the lower house of the parliament) from entering.

Link One. (http://natemat.pl/197031,kuchcinski-nie-odpuszcza-teraz-dziennikarze-w-ogole-nie-moga-wejsc-na-teren-sejmu)

Link two. (http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/marszalek-sejmu-wydal-dziennikarzom-zakaz-wstepu-do-sejmu/88tem4b)

One of the opposition MPs in protest of the violation of the rights of the citizenry to be informed about the proceedings in the Sejm showed a card saying #wolnemediia (free media) and was excluded from the Sejm deliberations (now he may be facing charges for up to three years in prison. In protest, the opposition parties seized control of the rostrum. PiS (the ruling party) decided to instead deliberate in a different room - one that didn't have enough voting machines to accomodate all MPs. A PiS MP was sent to the satellite antiestablishmentarians Kukiz '16 and moved to the Column Hall. The MPs of those two parties have been let in, but no other MPs were allowed in by the BOR. The two parties allowed to vote didn't fullfill the quorum needed to set the budget, but it was voted in anyway within minutes. One of the more trustworthy newspapers (Polityka) claims that unafilliated people were allowed to vote.

Link One. (http://innpoland.pl/131689,opozycja-protestuje-a-rzad-jedzie-dalej-pomimo-blokady-mownicy-przeglosowano-budzet-na-2017-rok-wiemy-jak-wyglada)

Link Two. (http://natemat.pl/196985,w-sejmie-taka-afera-ze-i-tak-media-ich-pokazuja-opozycja-okupuje-mownice-walczac-o-wolnemedia)

Link Three - The source claiming unafilliated people voted. (http://czarnacka.blog.polityka.pl/2016/12/17/pis-uchwala-opinie-o-budzecie-obywatele-blokuja-sejm/?nocheck=1)

Link Four (http://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/budzet-2017-sejm-chaos-w-sejmie-jaroslaw,250,0,2220794.html)

Upon news of the laws (budget and a pension rent decrease for members of the old government) being passed illegally there was a spontaneous protest in front of the presidential palace. Police has been mobilized across the entire country. In the night, at around 03:35 AM the protesters were attacked by police. Tear gas wasn't supposedly used (or at least the police chief claims so). The PiS Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration Mariusz Błaszczak claims the opposition tried to coup the nation (lolwut)

watLink (https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/10035212/Blaszczak-o-wydarzeniach-w-Sejmie-To-byla-proba-przejecia-wladzy.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wprost-kraj+(Wydarzenia+Wprost+24%3A+Kraj))

Link Two. (http://wyborcza.pl/7,75398,21133242,wolnosc-mediow-w-calej-polsce-protesty-poza-warszawa.html)

Link Three (http://natemat.pl/197003,szykuje-sie-wielki-protest-opozycja-i-kod-wzywaja-warszawiakow-pod-sejm-w-zwiazku-z-dzisiejsza-awantura)

Link Four (http://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/kraj/1687410,1,poslowie-pis-obraduja-na-nielegalnym-posiedzeniu-pod-sejmem-trwa-protest.read)


If everything goes right I will post again with other information about polish internal politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 17, 2016, 12:20:11 pm

Labour MP saying Putin interfered in the Brexit referendum. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-interference-brexit-highly-probable-referendum-hacking-putin-a7472706.html) What I find hilarious about this article by the Independent is that it omits the part where this MP also said Putin caused the refugee crisis in order to divide the "free world." Will such fools ever take responsibility for their own failures? No, I suspect not. The free world does not like doing so apparently, Blair, Brown and Cameron didn't cause Brexit, Putin did, Angela Merkel didn't cause the refugee crisis, Putin did, Clinton, Obama and the RNC didn't cause Trump, Putin did - never looking at their own flaws, only blaming Putin.

In a way it is amusing to see liberals shapeshift into homonationalists, they sound exactly like the Milos of the world now. Liberalism has finally died, its remnants have become whatever the hell this is now. Liberals want to go to war with Russia, liberals want to ban burkas, liberals want to deport Muslims who threaten gays, I wonder what changed in the media, how they went from reporting on how Putin was a failure and Russia was impending total collapse, to Putin is a 5 dimensional chessmaster who has conquered the world without lifting a finger. I suspect it has much to do with Clinton wishing to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, something impossible without waging war on Russia, and her surprise defeat being quite the shock. I have my fingers crossed that soon liberals will start talking about Soviet ideological subversion of the West, that will complete their inevitable metamorphosis into shitposters of equal calibre to tinfoil news.

Alas, this is all politics on the grand scheme of things, so it means little of consequence. Still a funny observation though, the liberal world finally found its foreign foe to rally against, the Russian scum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98n1IbWJhYU) have spine, thus people will choose the stronger scum. All hail the Holy Russian Empire lmao, we still got more problems at home to deal with

I mean look at this shit, rapists who were never deported (http://www.thelocal.de/20161215/hamburg-rape-suspect-should-have-been-deported-in-summer) and 12 year old Christmas bombers (http://www.thelocal.de/20161216/12-year-old-attempted-to-bomb-christmas-market-report), the West is kill and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Also an interesting read on jihadists coming back to Germany (http://www.thelocal.de/20161128/one-in-four-jihadists-cooperated-with-authorities-upon-return-to-germany) because of course the West lets people make homes into bases of operations lmao, and a rather interesting breakdown of radicalization. Internet, mosques and the most important of all - social spheres, are the prime factors in radicalization. Easily dispels the retarded notion that having jihadis recruiting kids on your street somehow isn't a problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 17, 2016, 01:11:53 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on December 17, 2016, 12:05:46 pm

One of the opposition MPs in protest of the violation of the rights of the citizenry to be informed about the proceedings in the Sejm showed a card saying #wolnemediia (free media) and was excluded from the Sejm deliberations (now he may be facing charges for up to three years in prison. In protest, the opposition parties seized control of the rostrum. PiS (the ruling party) decided to instead deliberate in a different room - one that didn't have enough voting machines to accomodate all MPs. A PiS MP was sent to the satellite antiestablishmentarians Kukiz '16 and moved to the Column Hall. The MPs of those two parties have been let in, but no other MPs were allowed in by the BOR. The two parties allowed to vote didn't fullfill the quorum needed to set the budget, but it was voted in anyway within minutes. One of the more trustworthy newspapers (Polityka) claims that unafilliated people were allowed to vote.

It met quorum, by like 5 MPs (close but still lawful). The opposition is just salty as hell because they blocked the main room so people who wanted to vote anyway were moved to other so they were caught in their own trap. And as I say, the whole thing is horrendously overblown and it shows - a lot of provocations, overinflated numbers (even your sources state 2000... is that really a huge demonstration? I mean, technically it is thousands...) - it's really a media stunt and, to be truly honest, PiS isin't handling it very well. It's getting into sensless battles with opposition which is not going to bring any good. After all, PO or Nowoczesna aren't really fighting for any cause, they're fighting to get their snouts in the trough.

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on December 17, 2016, 12:05:46 pm

Upon news of the laws (budget and a pension rent decrease for members of the old government) being passed illegally there was a spontaneous protest in front of the presidential palace. Police has been mobilized across the entire country. In the night, at around 03:35 AM the protesters were attacked by police. Tear gas wasn't supposedly used (or at least the police chief claims so). The PiS Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration Mariusz Błaszczak claims the opposition tried to coup the nation (lolwut)

Attacked by police? Aww, that's cute. (https://twitter.com/SamPereira_/status/810036689087373313) And police mobilization in whole country? Where? When? What?

As for the coup... well, in January, the leader of PO said that they are going to bring people on the streets, fight "in the European Union" and that "today we are going to take the rule from PiS". This is certainly the wet dream of opposition, though as I said, PiS is letting PO get on their heads right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 17, 2016, 02:38:04 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 17, 2016, 01:11:53 pm

*snip*

A bit of a misprecision there - I read that there were some brawls between the police and the protesters - but I had no knowledge of such heroic behaviour on the part of the protesters that is shown in the video. I skimped over the protest themselves - they are kind of meagre anyways.

I think we can both agree that this incident doesn't bode well for the remainder of the PiS's term though - it's gonna be quite a struggle for them to get anything done if things keep being this way. Their best hope still is to lose the next election, so that the time bomb the child encouragement programme blows up in someone else's face.

And if what the delegates to the Sejm should be taken at face value, then dear god are we doomed, we are surrounded by idiots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 17, 2016, 03:41:01 pm

Yeah, it's a shitshow (as it's customary in Poland) but it's nowhere as bad as people put in - it's not a revolution, the Poland is not falling apart, we are not the next Ukraine (yet).

It was clear that ever since the start the opposition is going to start shit and that's what they're going to do for the next few years, and after a while I am afraid that people will start going with it (which won't be that hard, PiS is widely hated despite still being slightly better option than the majority of other parties), so, yeah, any changes will be a bitch to make. Also, it should be noted that the official PiS stance is that the whole thing is about taking away money from past Communist politicans and members of UB, while keeping silent about the media stuff, while official PO stance is that it's only about media and nothing about the "deuzbekization", so yeah, multiple truths and the objective truth is proably somewhere in between.

As for being doomed... well, to fix Poland it would take a literal Deus Ex Machina - either everyone gets their heads out of asses (not possible, sadly) or (Alt-right and glorification aside) second Piłsudzki to grab all the idiots by their necks.

Also, few clarifications:
Serveral (not suprisingly, opposition-related) media said they will have a "day without politics" after the restrictions on journalists were announced, but they started to report the whole shitshow under the parliment because "they couldn't keep quiet anymore".
Szczerba and other opposition MPs were warned multiple times by the Marshal of the Sejm to stop the "Free Media" shitshow and start focusing on the thing at hand so it wasn't that weird for Szczerba to get thrown out for that sign.
The MPs got text messages and it was announced on the screens that the assembly is moved to other room, and while the journalists were forbidden from entering (because of the original restrictions, not because the room got changed) supposedly no MPs were stopped. The official count is 236 (required is 231, IIRC), though it could be different due to less-than-stellar conditions in the smaller room.
Jarosław Kaczyński and Prime Minister Beata Szydło had to leave under the Police escort but majority of the MPs left using the main entrance since the actual demonstration wasn't as bad as it's supposed to be.

People are still mad because they don't agree with how Parliment works (legal, albeit it's hard to prove that the quorum was met), the Free Media thing (still legal, it was to stop the journalists from meddling and being annoying cucks, not to mention that from what I heard it's normal in any other country), that the voting took place outside the room it was supposed to take (but it's still legal, after all it was the opposition who literally occupied the place), because supposed "police brutality" (no signs it was illegal, any "proofs" (the video I posted before, the one with guy laying on the ground - TVN cut it so it only shows the guy on the road and not how he ended up there) that it was were proven to be provocations and fakes) and because they just dislike PiS that, I would like to remind you, got democractically elected (legal as fuck).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on December 17, 2016, 10:26:33 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 17, 2016, 07:54:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 17, 2016, 12:20:11 pm

I have my fingers crossed that soon liberals will start talking about Soviet ideological subversion of the West, that will complete their inevitable metamorphosis into shitposters of equal calibre to tinfoil news.

>Tfw I spent an hour this morning talking about the ideological subversion of the West.

What have I become?

A Russian Putin shill. Don't worry it's not that bad, the only thing I'd really worry about is people being mad that you took up some of their share of the shill-rubles. The FSB doesn't have the budget the KGB did back in the day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2016, 10:28:49 pm

Things don't have to be illegal for them to be wrong or undesirable. You know that as well as anyone, Kot :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 18, 2016, 07:33:54 am

The SPD's Thomas Oppermann, Germany, has called for fines (500,000 Euro!) against social media platforms if fake reports are not quickly deleted. A new law to control fake news and hate messages is under consideration. (http://www.dw.com/en/500000-euro-fines-for-fake-news-on-facebook-in-germany/a-36806244)

I see the Western society is starting to see the benefit of censuring not-state-sanctioned - oh, sorry, fake news and "hate" messages, hehehe.

USSR v.2 - soon coming to your house!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 18, 2016, 07:47:24 am

Jeeez, yeah, this is scary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 07:52:22 am

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 18, 2016, 08:38:51 am

The German highschool 'Istanbul Lisesi' in Istanbul, Turkey, has received a ban on celebrating christmas from the Turkish authorities.
They are no longer allowed to speak about the christian tradition in their classes, and singing is also banned. This is the first time this ever happened to the school, which employs 35 German teachers, teaching mostly kids from the rich Turkish elite.
The school is part of a cultural agreement between Germany and Turkey, which sees 80 teachers from Germany deployed over a handful of schools.

Turkey very busy becoming caliphate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 18, 2016, 09:37:02 am

That seems to be against article 14 of the Turkish constitution, but good luck getting your rights in court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 12:48:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 07:52:22 am

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 01:44:29 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 12:48:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 07:52:22 am

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 18, 2016, 03:11:42 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 17, 2016, 01:11:53 pm

Attacked by police? Aww, that's cute. (https://twitter.com/SamPereira_/status/810036689087373313) And police mobilization in whole country? Where? When? What?

Sorry for the second reply, Kot, but police certainly was mobilised and deployed to the capital. This may be due to the football match, but I doubt a match with a third league team would cause that much unrest. Even while commuting on today's evening I passed by twenty policemen with riot gear (armor, shields et cetera).

Link one. (http://wyborcza.pl/7,75398,21135466,policja-z-calej-polski-jedzie-bronic-wladzy-pis.html)
Link two. (http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114884,21134627,kolumny-radiowozow-nadciagaja-do-warszawy-opancerzony-woz-juz.html)
Link three. (http://polskaracja.com/mobilizacja-policji-calym-kraju-warszawy-jedzie-500-funkcjonariuszy-wideo/)

And there sure were clashes with the police at the very least:
Link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDrllQOeAM)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 18, 2016, 04:30:27 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on December 18, 2016, 03:11:42 pm

Sorry for the second reply, Kot, but police certainly was mobilised and deployed to the capital. This may be due to the football match, but I doubt a match with a third league team would cause that much unrest. Even while commuting on today's evening I passed by twenty policemen with riot gear (armor, shields et cetera).
Link one. (http://wyborcza.pl/7,75398,21135466,policja-z-calej-polski-jedzie-bronic-wladzy-pis.html)

Wybiórcza. Sry, no.

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on December 18, 2016, 03:11:42 pm

Link two. (http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114884,21134627,kolumny-radiowozow-nadciagaja-do-warszawy-opancerzony-woz-juz.html)
Link three. (http://polskaracja.com/mobilizacja-policji-calym-kraju-warszawy-jedzie-500-funkcjonariuszy-wideo/)

500 policemen? Oh my God so fucking much. I am not denying that Warsaw gets some help from surrounding cities that are acting less retarded and that there might be some movements in other cities since there are minor demonstrations there, but mobilization seems like a big word. Mobilization was during the World Youth Day when Police convoys were going around 24/7.

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on December 18, 2016, 03:11:42 pm

And there sure were clashes with the police at the very least:
Link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDrllQOeAM)

Well, if an idiot jumps the Police then I'm not suprised. And I never really denied that there are none, but rather that it's implied that Police are literally as bad as it was in 89. Fucking laughable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 10:23:35 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 01:44:29 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 12:48:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 07:52:22 am

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

Pray tell, why is incitement to violence not protected then? Why can't I go marching down Main Street with a sign reading 'Kill all fags and niggers!'?

Once you protect anything at all - and there are things you will want to protect - you run into the same kind of 'This can be used to suppress anything' problem. Guess what - yes it can. The question is whether it will be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 18, 2016, 10:26:56 pm

You may want to edit the f- and n-words out of that post. While I appreciate you're trying to make a point, Toady has said he has no tolerance for those words regardless of context, and someone may report it just because.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 11:06:07 pm

The point would be lost without them - I'll take the risk.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 19, 2016, 03:52:20 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 10:23:35 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 01:44:29 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 18, 2016, 12:48:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2016, 07:52:22 am

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

Pray tell, why is incitement to violence not protected then? Why can't I go marching down Main Street with a sign reading 'Kill all fags and niggers!'?

Once you protect anything at all - and there are things you will want to protect - you run into the same kind of 'This can be used to suppress anything' problem. Guess what - yes it can. The question is whether it will be.

Well, for one thing, you could do that in the US. Back when they weren't 50% FBI plants the KKK held rallies pretty regularly, and were even defended by the ACLU. Incitement isn't some vague desire to see a genocide committed, it's something specific and credible, and what's illegal about it isn't the speech but the same reason conspiracy to murder is illegal. (i.e. "Kill Group X" is not incitement, directing a mob to kill a specific person is what's incitement) The only reasonable limitation of free speech comes from intersection with other harms, not any harm caused by speech itself.

Your protective standard of "what's acceptable for society" is an inherently conforming one. You don't have to prove anything physical in Germany, just that one advocates something that is extremely out of the norm. Once given that power in any context, it can be reapplied however the state wishes. Hence why Germany now bans clown costumes, flag burning and has a left-wing opposition that is suddenly against freedom of press. And will soon be legally dictating what women are allowed to wear, if the new and improved alt-right version of Merkel gets her way. A standard of "all speech is acceptable and you must demonstrate an immediate coinciding cause for it to be otherwise" is clearly more robust.

I've said this to you before, but I can only fucking imagine what horrors would be perpetuated over here if the Republican party thought like most European governments seem to. It's bad enough that Trump seems to be in a similar vein of thought, what with his comments about flag burning and libel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 04:03:02 am

I wouldn't call Merkel's plan to ban face-covering niqabs and burkas alt-right. Feminist, perhaps, or egalitarian, but not alt-right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 19, 2016, 11:38:34 am

It's egalitarian  to tell women what they're allowed to wear? Especially targeted at a specific subgroup of women?

I'm sorry, did I miss something here? Or did someone else miss the point of egalitarianism/feminism?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://roman-gonzalez.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Screen-Shot-2014-03-02-at-9.53.40-AM.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 12:59:46 pm

Because this transcends multiple threads: The Russian ambassador to Turkey got assassinated (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot/index.html).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 19, 2016, 01:12:02 pm

Srs biz.

^{inb4 people say its a putinistic conspiracy to heighten the tension around the syria issue.}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:10:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 19, 2016, 02:06:10 pm

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:13:51 pm

Pretty sure the PKK (the Turkish Kurd group) are non-salafist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 19, 2016, 02:17:14 pm

Err, pretty sure there are non salafist radicals, the whole "lol its all the salafists' fault" is kinda conspiracy theory tier. Salafists are fundamentalist radicals, yes, but terrorists in general come from all branches of islam. Its also kinda hilarious how people go "salafists aren't muslim guyse". Yea, and westboro baptists aren't christians, either, sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 02:21:16 pm

Source also says he was Turkish. I wouldn't jump at the salafi that quickly first of all they killed on guy instead of blowing the building all the rebels apart maybe for the Turks have reasons to be sore at Russia.

Edit: Apparently the killer was Mert Altintas, a 22-years old police officer. Apart from Allah Akbar he was shouting stuff along the line of "Don't forget Syria, Don't forget Aleppo, as long as our brothers aren't safe you won't be safe".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:23:53 pm

From CNN and BBCnews sources, nobody has said who they think is behind it. All we know is that the guy was a plainclothes policeman.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 02:26:26 pm

Apparently he was a spec ops policeman off duty. He was also shot within 15 minutes by the same spec ops unit *conspiration theroy intensify".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:29:44 pm

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 02:31:09 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:29:44 pm

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government everyone will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

I mean, of course. At least they'll have trouble blaming it on the PKK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on December 19, 2016, 02:41:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:10:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 19, 2016, 02:06:10 pm

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

There is literally video of him saying these things. I won't link it since it obviously also includes him shooting the ambassador, but it's not difficult to find.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 19, 2016, 02:48:50 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on December 19, 2016, 02:17:14 pm

Err, pretty sure there are non salafist radicals, the whole "lol its all the salafists' fault" is kinda conspiracy theory tier. Salafists are fundamentalist radicals, yes, but terrorists in general come from all branches of islam. Its also kinda hilarious how people go "salafists aren't muslim guyse". Yea, and westboro baptists aren't christians, either, sure.

That is in fact something I've heard. That their behavior goes against the principles of Christ's teachings and that therefore they are Christian only in name, despite their origin. These are the people that also usually say Mormonism isn't Christianity but an offshoot of it.

Quote from: Ispil on December 19, 2016, 02:19:30 pm

Eh, I've said it before, my criticism of Islam isn't its content, but its decentralization. You can't reasonably "denounce" a particular sect when you're so decentralized that none of the other sects care about your opinion, and there's barely any notion of a leadership hierarchy for most sects anyway. Of course, this also makes it really easy to spread, but the consequence is... well, what we're seeing today. It's easy to take a faith and misrepresent it and mold it into whatever bastardized image you wanted to create when there's no one around to tell you that you're wrong.

My question as to the above was actually not a hypothetical; was blanking on any examples outside of salafists. Thanks, though, for reminding me of a few.

I'm curious as to what you mean. Is it easier for a religion to spread when centralized or decentralized? The Catholic Church managed to help Christianity spread quite quickly, and seems like the golden standard for religious centralization.

@smjjames: I understand the instinctive urge to try and challenge any sources that say things that could be used to further provoke violence against minority groups. However, there's a principle of debate called equal application of rigor; don't challenge something just because it's inconvenient for it to be true any more than you would challenge something that you would prefer to be true. :/

@Covenant: Not helping.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 19, 2016, 02:49:10 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 02:31:09 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:29:44 pm

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government everyone will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

I mean, of course. At least they'll have trouble blaming it on the PKK.

Then they'll blame it on Gulenist conspiracy, duh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:50:51 pm

Quote from: Baffler on December 19, 2016, 02:41:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:10:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 19, 2016, 02:06:10 pm

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

There is literally video of him saying these things. I won't link it since it obviously also includes him shooting the ambassador, but it's not difficult to find.

I meant the claim that he was a salafi islamist, which there is no evidence for atm.

fakeedit: This just ain't a good day is it, there was this shooting of three people near an islamic center in Zurich, not much detail atm (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38363602) and then a couple min ago is a truck plows into a German christmas market (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn), BBC link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38373867  little info atm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:58:01 pm

Quote from: Ispil on December 19, 2016, 02:53:18 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 19, 2016, 02:48:50 pm

Quote from: Ispil on December 19, 2016, 02:19:30 pm

Eh, I've said it before, my criticism of Islam isn't its content, but its decentralization. You can't reasonably "denounce" a particular sect when you're so decentralized that none of the other sects care about your opinion, and there's barely any notion of a leadership hierarchy for most sects anyway. Of course, this also makes it really easy to spread, but the consequence is... well, what we're seeing today. It's easy to take a faith and misrepresent it and mold it into whatever bastardized image you wanted to create when there's no one around to tell you that you're wrong.

My question as to the above was actually not a hypothetical; was blanking on any examples outside of salafists. Thanks, though, for reminding me of a few.

I'm curious as to what you mean. Is it easier for a religion to spread when centralized or decentralized? The Catholic Church managed to help Christianity spread quite quickly, and seems like the golden standard for religious centralization.

Well, I'd say that it certainly helped it spread and stick around in various... more contested areas, without necessarily needing a direct push. Doesn't it have over 1 billion practicing members these days? Part of those numbers come from decentralization.

I don't think centralization has anything to do with that, just the will and desire to spread the religion. Christianity didn't become centralized until centuries after Christ. Though that was partly due to the fact that it was driven underground for a while.

Not sure why we're getting into a religion derail though....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on December 19, 2016, 03:23:21 pm

So, Russian sources says he was a Salafist? lol, because Russia is globally known for its "journalism" accuracy.

Did he need to be a Salafist to kill the Russian ambassador? did he need to be a Salafist to be upset about other muslims dying in Aleppo? nope. he probably had a strong religious identity, but that doesn't mean he was religious himself, let alone a Salafist.

Besides, Hezbollah, Russia's ally, is a radical Islamic organization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 03:31:29 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on December 19, 2016, 03:23:21 pm

So, Russian sources says he was a Salafist? lol, because Russia is globally known for its "journalism" accuracy.

Did he need to be a Salafist to kill the Russian ambassador? did he need to be a Salafist to be upset about other muslims dying in Aleppo? nope. he probably had a strong religious identity, but that doesn't mean he was religious himself, let alone a Salafist.

Besides, Hezbollah, Russia's ally, is a radical Islamic organization.

I'm not so sure Hezbollah is actually an ally of Russia, but yes, Russia is an ally (not sure how close they actually are) of Iran. So, in the sense of by proxy and through guilt by association, Hezbollah is an ally of Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 03:39:46 pm

Well, Hizbullah is fighting side-by-side with Russia in Syria. Iranically, the US if fighting alonside "Hizbullah in Iraq" in Iraq. But that's apparently a different, unrelated Hizbullah (Which mean "party of god").

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 19, 2016, 03:51:50 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:10:37 pm

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

Watch the video yourself if you disagree on the commentary

Also Germany Christmas market attack (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-truck-idUSKBN148287)
I ran out of things to say about Germans destroying their country a long time ago

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 03:58:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 19, 2016, 03:51:50 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 02:10:37 pm

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

Watch the video yourself if you disagree on the commentary

The saying "Allahu Akbar" is a common saying, almost exactly like you or me saying "Oh My God", so, just saying it isn't a sign of being a salafist on it's own. Though it will draw attention to you in most places in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir.

i'm in no way condoning the act, just saying that speaking those words don't automatically make one a salafist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 19, 2016, 04:08:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 03:58:16 pm

The saying "Allahu Akbar" is a common saying, almost exactly like you or me saying "Oh My God", so, just saying it isn't a sign of being a salafist on it's own. Though it will draw attention to you in most places in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir.

I am not ignorant of this, which is why I ask you to watch the video. One does not shout oh my God when assassinating infidels (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4de_1482167380). As to whether he's a salafist or not, assassin bullets wound just as deep regardless of what ideology its wielders subscribe to, there's not much point autistically obsessing over whether the assassin was salafist or just a regular islamist, and it's obvious at even a cursory glance he's not shouting in surprise - rather, a declaration of faith. This reminds me of when the Turkish football crowd was shouting allahu akbar when prompted for a minute's silence over Paris and Western commentators parroted to one another on how allahu akbar could also be used in a common context similar to OMG; it is only they who delude themselves who bleed in the end

Speaking of which, Zurich, Berlin, Ankara, Europeans respond to their undoing (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/night-of-terror-numerous-dead-after-suspected-terror-attacks-in-germany-turkey-and-switzerland-35306904.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 19, 2016, 04:15:38 pm

Nah, but it's unclear whose group he is affiliated with if any, which has significiance when discussing the results of an attack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 04:22:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 19, 2016, 04:08:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 03:58:16 pm

The saying "Allahu Akbar" is a common saying, almost exactly like you or me saying "Oh My God", so, just saying it isn't a sign of being a salafist on it's own. Though it will draw attention to you in most places in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir.

I am not ignorant of this, which is why I ask you to watch the video. One does not shout oh my God when assassinating infidels (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4de_1482167380). As to whether he's a salafist or not, assassin bullets wound just as deep regardless of what ideology its wielders subscribe to, there's not much point autistically obsessing over whether the assassin was salafist or just a regular islamist, and it's obvious at even a cursory glance he's not shouting in surprise - rather, a declaration of faith. This reminds me of when the Turkish football crowd was shouting allahu akbar when prompted for a minute's silence over Paris and Western commentators parroted to one another on how allahu akbar could also be used in a common context similar to OMG; it is only they who delude themselves who bleed in the end

Speaking of which, Zurich, Berlin, Ankara, Europeans respond to their undoing (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/night-of-terror-numerous-dead-after-suspected-terror-attacks-in-germany-turkey-and-switzerland-35306904.html)

I get the implication behind it, and I'll admit that I'm at a loss of having or knowing of a comparable exclaimation that would be used in the West, or at least in the religious sense.

The one in Zurich sounds more like a hate crime than islamist terror. Also, I don't see anything about "responding to their undoing" in that article.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on December 19, 2016, 04:23:18 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/19/506191996/truck-drives-through-christmas-market-crowd-in-germany

not this again!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on December 19, 2016, 04:25:08 pm

Well that's not Nice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 19, 2016, 05:01:20 pm

Hmm. When I came to hear of this Christmas ban (of sorts, it appears to be knottier than it seems, the whole business) in that German school in Instanbul, I thought 'well, this cultural enrichment jiggery-pokery seems awfully one-sided'. It seems like quite the secondary concern now, however. Good God...

As for the murder in Turkey, it is rather fascinating to see how commited both Turkey and Russia are towards maintaining their uneasy friendship. I would say that it is a world gone mad, but there is absolutely nothing too outlandish to happen any more. Of course, it was a rather clumsy attempt to place a wedge between them, if that was the goal at all. Nonetheless, I would not want to be in the shoes of the other conspirators at the moment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 05:46:56 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 19, 2016, 05:01:20 pm

Hmm. When I came to hear of this Christmas ban (of sorts, it appears to be knottier than it seems, the whole business) in that German school in Instanbul, I thought 'well, this cultural enrichment jiggery-pokery seems awfully one-sided'. It seems like quite the secondary concern now, however. Good God...

As for the murder in Turkey, it is rather fascinating to see how commited both Turkey and Russia are towards maintaining their uneasy friendship. I would say that it is a world gone mad, but there is absolutely nothing too outlandish to happen any more. Of course, it was a rather clumsy attempt to place a wedge between them, if that was the goal at all. Nonetheless, I would not want to be in the shoes of the other conspirators at the moment.

The Christmas ban was revoked yesterday. And anyone involved from the Turkish authorities now say it never happened.

EDIT: but yeah. Sadness. Just when you think 2016 is nearly over, it still bites you in the ass. My thoughts are with those who lost loved ones today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 19, 2016, 05:58:39 pm

Polish license plates... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 06:03:14 pm

Yeah, the company that owns the truck is from Poland. The Polish owner already called in to the police. His nephew was supposed to be driving the truck. It is now thought that that is the dead body found in the passenger seat. Starting to look like either the truck got stolen, or the by-rider killed the driver and took control.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 05:58:39 pm

Polish license plates... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident)

Chill, nobody's saying the Polish did it.

Quote from: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 06:03:14 pm

Yeah, the company that owns the truck is from Poland. The Polish owner already called in to the police. His nephew was supposed to be driving the truck. It is now thought that that is the dead body found in the passenger seat. Starting to look like either the truck got stolen, or the by-rider killed the driver and took control.

The BBC live feed says that some people suspect or are starting to think that the person arrested is Pakistani. Haven't seen corroborating statements elsewhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 19, 2016, 06:29:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 05:58:39 pm

Polish license plates... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident)

Chill, nobody's saying the Polish did it.

Oh, we do.
Considering the horrendous bullshit that is currently going on in Polish parliment, opposition is already throwing it at PiS and PiS is already blaming the opposition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:36:07 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 06:29:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 05:58:39 pm

Polish license plates... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident)

Chill, nobody's saying the Polish did it.

Oh, we do.
Considering the horrendous bullshit that is currently going on in Polish parliment, opposition is already throwing it at PiS and PiS is already blaming the opposition.

Lol, are your political parties literally claiming that the other party caused it just because a truck with Polish plates is involved?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 19, 2016, 06:45:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:36:07 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 06:29:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 06:06:29 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 05:58:39 pm

Polish license plates... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident)

Chill, nobody's saying the Polish did it.

Oh, we do.
Considering the horrendous bullshit that is currently going on in Polish parliment, opposition is already throwing it at PiS and PiS is already blaming the opposition.

Lol, are your political parties literally claiming that the other party caused it just because a truck with Polish plates is involved?

Well, they're Polish, so, duh? Poland is historically well known for constantly backstabbing itself for littlest of reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 19, 2016, 06:53:28 pm

Parties not really, not oficially at least (yet, as it seems a bit too late for official claims anyway), but I've already witnessed few shitstorms on internet where people supporting different sides started to accuse each other. Since KOD is more of a civic organization (supposedly) anyway, what people say is basically what they say (it's not suprising for some of them to paint up signs blaming PiS, since for them PiS is literally Nazis), and I've heard (no sources, I don't have access now) that few lower level PiS guys "half-jokingly" said that the KOD members from Pomerania went too far and to the wrong capital or something like that.
I mean, I'm exaggerating as fuck, but people (sometimes pretty important) are literally saying this shit in public, including "free" press throwing thinly veiled accussations. And people wonder why it was forbidden for journalists to keep chucklefucking around parliment. To be honest I don't think it will be that important anyway because even we see when it becomes ridiculous (hopefully), but eh, at this point you can either cry or laugh at it, and I think I'm out of tears since long time.

Quote from: Sergarr on December 19, 2016, 06:45:47 pm

Well, they're Polish, so, duh? Poland is historically well known for constantly backstabbing itself for littlest of reasons.

This Russian has the right idea. Major part of being Polish is hating Poles and Poland (BUT GOD HELP YOU IF YOU'RE FOREIGN AND HATE POLAND OR POLES).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 07:05:36 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 19, 2016, 06:53:28 pm

Major part of being Polish is hating Poles and Poland (BUT GOD HELP YOU IF YOU'RE FOREIGN AND HATE POLAND OR POLES).

Sounds like any other country

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 19, 2016, 07:07:13 pm

... are you implying that we aren't the best at hating ourselves?
PREPARE TO GET WINGED HUSSAR'D.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 07:12:24 pm

/me runs for the hills

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 07:21:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 07:12:24 pm

/me runs for the hills

But there are no hills in Netherlands, or mountains.

/me runs for the mountains, which we've got plenty of.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 07:36:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 07:21:42 pm

But there are no hills in Netherlands, or mountains.

We have hills, we don't have mountains. (<500m is a hill, >500 a mountain, our highest point is at the three-nation-point in between Belgium, Luxemburg and the Netherlands, the Vaalserberg (mislabeled a 'berg' = mountain) at 322.7 meters high). The whole province of Limburg is pretty hilly. Our eastern provinces have some hills too, most notably the national park Hoge Veluwe, and the 'berg and dal' area near the city of Nijmegen.
Our eastern hills aren't formed by tectonic activity though, but rather by the last ice age, with the ice mass' weight pushing up the land in it's trail. The Limburg hills are the Ardennes' foothills.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 19, 2016, 07:46:36 pm

So when you say 'run for the hills', you really mean 'run for Luxemburg'?


... oh my.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 08:59:21 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 19, 2016, 06:03:14 pm

Yeah, the company that owns the truck is from Poland. The Polish owner already called in to the police. His nephew was supposed to be driving the truck. It is now thought that that is the dead body found in the passenger seat. Starting to look like either the truck got stolen, or the by-rider killed the driver and took control.

This looks to be exactly the situation. They're saying that the dead passenger in the front seat is a Polish citizen. Not much of anything on the suspect other than a probably unconfirmed 'he's from Pakistan and he arrived as a refugee back in February.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 01:51:21 am

Personally I think we should ban automatic assault trucks. They are too dangerous and why would you want to walk the streets with one? Give up your trucks, citizen, trust the government to take care of you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 03:43:55 am

Guys was from AfPak apparently.  Dang Merkel for welcoming Syrians!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 04:18:59 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 01:51:21 am

Personally I think we should ban automatic assault trucks. They are too dangerous and why would you want to walk the streets with one? Give up your trucks, citizen, trust the government to take care of you.

Think of the children!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 04:56:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 03:43:55 am

Guys was from AfPak apparently.  Dang Merkel for welcoming Syrians!

He came in as a refugee at the start of this year, though. ???

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 04:18:59 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 01:51:21 am

Personally I think we should ban automatic assault trucks. They are too dangerous and why would you want to walk the streets with one? Give up your trucks, citizen, trust the government to take care of you.

Think of the children!

Almost 3800 people are killed by large trucks each year! We should ban large trucks!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 05:10:34 am

It'll be interesting to learn more about the guy.  90%+ of Pakistani asylum seeker have their claim rejected.  I wonder if he decided to do his thing after a rejected claim.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 05:42:54 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 04:56:16 am

Almost 3800 people are killed by large trucks each year! We should ban large trucks!

Most terrorist victims in Europe were killed in French and German cities. Let's ban French and German cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 06:10:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 05:10:34 am

It'll be interesting to learn more about the guy.  90%+ of Pakistani asylum seeker have their claim rejected.  I wonder if he decided to do his thing after a rejected claim.

What if he did it after he got told "No" by a German girl? That'll mean it was justified!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 06:19:01 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 04:56:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 03:43:55 am

Guys was from AfPak apparently.  Dang Merkel for welcoming Syrians!

He came in as a refugee at the start of this year, though. ???

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 04:18:59 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 01:51:21 am

Personally I think we should ban automatic assault trucks. They are too dangerous and why would you want to walk the streets with one? Give up your trucks, citizen, trust the government to take care of you.

Think of the children!

Almost 3800 people are killed by large trucks each year! We should ban large trucks!

Only officials should operate trucks! They should be stored centrally in secure, guarded, armored warehouses only! The citizens of EU demand security!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 07:00:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 05:42:54 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 20, 2016, 04:56:16 am

Almost 3800 people are killed by large trucks each year! We should ban large trucks!

Most terrorist victims in Europe were killed in French and German cities. Let's ban French and German cities.

Brussels ain't French.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 07:31:54 am

German police chief tells die Welt that the Pakistani man they apprehended is possibly not the perpetrator. They fear that the real culprit is still at large, and might cause more victims.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160462226/Berliner-Polizei-Wir-haben-den-falschen-Mann.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 20, 2016, 07:37:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 07:31:54 am

German police chief tells die Welt that the Pakistani man they apprehended is possibly not the perpetrator. They fear that the real culprit is still at large, and might cause more victims.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160462226/Berliner-Polizei-Wir-haben-den-falschen-Mann.html

/puts tinfoil hats

how convenient, so they can pin subsequent attacks without having to whitewash the news - "see? lone wolf, totally the same dude"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 20, 2016, 08:10:00 am

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 06:19:01 am

Only officials should operate trucks! They should be stored centrally in secure, guarded, armored warehouses only! The citizens of EU demand security!

Spoiler: Officials... (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/qiHF3TA.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 08:13:09 am

He kinda looks like a (younger) Quentin Tarantino

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 08:14:57 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2016, 07:00:29 am

Brussels ain't French.

Oh sorry, I should have added Belgium (and Madrid). Sorry London, Brexit and all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 20, 2016, 08:15:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 08:13:09 am

He kinda looks like a (younger) Quentin Tarantino

Spoiler: His new movie is amazing. (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/VV7mBxs.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Leafsnail on December 20, 2016, 09:02:06 am

Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 20, 2016, 07:37:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 07:31:54 am

German police chief tells die Welt that the Pakistani man they apprehended is possibly not the perpetrator. They fear that the real culprit is still at large, and might cause more victims.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160462226/Berliner-Polizei-Wir-haben-den-falschen-Mann.html

/puts tinfoil hats

how convenient, so they can pin subsequent attacks without having to whitewash the news - "see? lone wolf, totally the same dude"

What's convenient? They just seem to have arrested the wrong guy, there's no evidence that he did it (and forensics suggest he could not have shot the driver).

If this is a terror attack is probably is a lone wolf since no-one has claimed responsibility.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 20, 2016, 10:57:31 am

Thats kinda weird that nobody's claimed it yet. Werent IS making a thing of claiming every islam-related terrorist attack a while back, even ones that analysts said were probbably lone wolfs?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 11:03:42 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 20, 2016, 10:57:31 am

Thats kinda weird that nobody's claimed it yet. Werent IS making a thing of claiming every islam-related terrorist attack a while back, even ones that analysts said were probbably lone wolfs?

Even then, they often were inspired by Isis. A lone wolf just means the person isn't part of a cell or a network and is acting alone.

It is a bit odd though that nobody has claimed it. Though it also makes some sense that nobody might want to claim it because it'll make Russia and Turkey focus fire on them. The motivations of the guy are pretty clear (bombardment of Aleppo, the whole Syria mess), but whether he's connected to anybody or is a lone actor isn't known yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 11:08:17 am

honestly I'm not certain it wasn't a plant or a deliberate allowance on Russia's part. It's the sort of thing KGB might do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 11:14:10 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 11:08:17 am

honestly I'm not certain it wasn't a plant or a deliberate allowance on Russia's part. It's the sort of thing KGB might do.

You mean Russia would assassinate it's own diplomat to further the cause of improving relations with Turkey using the 'your enemy is our enemy' rethoric?

I guess it makes more sense than Obama having ordered it in retaliation to the election tampering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 11:15:59 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 11:08:17 am

honestly I'm not certain it wasn't a plant or a deliberate allowance on Russia's part. It's the sort of thing KGB might do.

It did seem pretty strange how that ambassador is supposedly the most protected ambassador in Turkey and yet that guy was the only security guy there and they had to send police in to neutralize the guy. Then again, I don't know what 'most protected' looks like in Turkey, I assume the same way or close to as the POTUS.

There was also, hours after that, some guy shooting a shotgun in the air outside the US embassy in Turkey shouting "I swear to god, don't you mess with us!". That person was arrested without issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 11:19:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 11:14:10 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 11:08:17 am

honestly I'm not certain it wasn't a plant or a deliberate allowance on Russia's part. It's the sort of thing KGB might do.

You mean Russia would assassinate it's own diplomat to further the cause of improving relations with Turkey using the 'your enemy is our enemy' rethoric?

I guess it makes more sense than Obama having ordered it in retaliation to the election tampering.

Or even just deliberately fail to prevent him being assassinated. 'enemy of our enemy' wasn't what I was thinking though, mostly 'see we have to be involved and this justifies anything we do!'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 11:22:28 am

I really don't think we need to bring complex machinations into this. Though clearly someone screwed up with security for the ambassador.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Leafsnail on December 20, 2016, 01:01:26 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 20, 2016, 10:57:31 am

Thats kinda weird that nobody's claimed it yet. Werent IS making a thing of claiming every islam-related terrorist attack a while back, even ones that analysts said were probbably lone wolfs?

If you're talking about the ambassador assassin it seems likely he's aligned with other rebel groups that are hostile to IS. Those have received Turkish backing in the past.

For the truck attack I guess things are just too murky at this point. There wasn't even any kind of statement or note from the attacker so it's unclear if it's even politically motivated at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 01:15:08 pm

The truck driver was apparently shot - no official confirmation yet. I'm totally expecting EU Commission to ban illegal firearms any day now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:15:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 11:14:10 am

You mean Russia would assassinate it's own diplomat to further the cause of improving relations with Turkey using the 'your enemy is our enemy' rethoric?

People have been claiming it's a false flag because it... looks too good.
I MEAN, the photos look (http://i.imgur.com/TT2clBK.jpg) like screenshoots (http://i.imgur.com/ySTO6tB.jpg) from a movie (this photo contains blood), (http://i.imgur.com/lXvL0x2.jpg) just slap some grain on it. (http://i.imgur.com/NSBoMEG.jpg)

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 01:15:08 pm

I'm totally expecting EU Commission to ban illegal firearms any day now.

W h a t.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on December 20, 2016, 01:17:27 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 20, 2016, 08:10:00 am

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 06:19:01 am

Only officials should operate trucks! They should be stored centrally in secure, guarded, armored warehouses only! The citizens of EU demand security!

Spoiler: Officials... (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/qiHF3TA.jpg)

This one's great

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 01:26:46 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:15:42 pm

W h a t.

They tried to, among other mad things, ban and collect from EU citizens every non-shotgun semi-automatic weapon including pistols "to protect EU citizens from terrorism". That was literally 3 days after latest Paris attacks, they revived an almost year old proposal to renew firearms directive in a hurry.

It already is difficult to get a legal pistol in Germany... let alone for someone who doesnt even have citizenship. There are so many black market guns and ways to hurt people that its madness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 01:33:09 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:15:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 11:14:10 am

You mean Russia would assassinate it's own diplomat to further the cause of improving relations with Turkey using the 'your enemy is our enemy' rethoric?

People have been claiming it's a false flag because it... looks too good.
I MEAN, the photos look (http://i.imgur.com/TT2clBK.jpg) like screenshoots (http://i.imgur.com/ySTO6tB.jpg) from a movie (this photo contains blood), (http://i.imgur.com/lXvL0x2.jpg) just slap some grain on it. (http://i.imgur.com/NSBoMEG.jpg)

Yeah, the whole thing looks almost too easy (having just one guard seems unusual, and there weren't other security forces around) and it's just the surrealness of it.

It's also easy to claim conspiracy in the vacuum that is a lack of solid information. I heard on CNN that the Turkish state media claimed that they "found Al-Qaeda books" in his home, but they aren't known for specifically targeting officials. So, I'm taking that with a fistful of salt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:37:46 pm

Quote from: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 01:26:46 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:15:42 pm

W h a t.

They tried to, among other mad things, ban and collect from EU citizens every non-shotgun semi-automatic weapon including pistols "to protect EU citizens from terrorism". That was literally 3 days after latest Paris attacks, they revived an almost year old proposal to renew firearms directive in a hurry.

It already is difficult to get a legal pistol in Germany... let alone for someone who doesnt even have citizenship. There are so many black market guns and ways to hurt people that its madness.

No, what I mean is "BAN ILLEGAL firearms". If they're already illegal, you can't really ban them more.

And man, don't tell me about how it's difficult to get a legal pistol in Germany, in Poland it's way worse. We're a country with one of most strict gun laws in the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 20, 2016, 02:07:06 pm

Quote from: Kot on December 20, 2016, 01:37:46 pm

No, what I mean is "BAN ILLEGAL firearms". If they're already illegal, you can't really ban them more.

And man, don't tell me about how it's difficult to get a legal pistol in Germany, in Poland it's way worse. We're a country with one of most strict gun laws in the world.

I was being sarcastic, guns used in crime rarely are acquired legally. So it makes no sence unless you're the EU Commission. They're banning things that are already banned, and doing massive collateral damage among innocent people and their sports.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 02:20:15 pm

The Pakistani man arrested after the truck assault has been released, there being no evidence of his involvement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 20, 2016, 02:21:53 pm

Ban illegal trucks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 20, 2016, 02:36:29 pm

Ban illegal immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 20, 2016, 02:40:12 pm

Ban illegal immigrant trucks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 04:05:36 pm

Meanwhile in the Netherlands, an refugee from Macedonia who had been denied asylum and sent notice to leave the country within 28 days, resisted being questioned, after police got several notifications from the public that a man was acting suspiciously, and punched a police officer in the face. He was then subdued by police using pepperspray, and bystanders helped keep him down.
Until other bystanders noticed that the man's face was turning blue.
He's dead now, Police say, that according to video images, the man died of strangulation. Police deny having put him in a chokehold, implying one of the assisting bystanders did that. On an aside, one of the assisting bystanders turned out to be a police officer in civilian clothing. Police can't comment on whether he was on or off duty at the time.

The National Police has started an investigation into the man's dead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on December 20, 2016, 04:41:50 pm

You could almost think that police aren't trained to take people down without killing them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 04:48:01 pm

Quote from: DreamerGhost on December 20, 2016, 04:41:50 pm

You could almost think that police aren't trained to take people down without killing them.

*points at the US* You think?

Though the whole 'shoot a gun outta someones hand' or 'disable a running person by shooting them in the leg' is all Hollywood and 99% of people aren't Robin Hood* tier marksmen/women.

*I'm sure the Finns would argue that their legendary snipers** are better than Robin Hood at marksmanship though. And maybe the Swiss, I've heard that they're good as well.

**Guns are in a whole other league*** from bow and arrow anyway.

***Then again, tall tales and all that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 04:53:26 pm

One specific chokehold taught in police training was the probable cause of death last year during an arrest that made national news. The chokehold move came under investigation, but that concluded that it need not be removed from training, deeming it non lethal when used correctly. My guess is the problem lies with some folks who like to work out too much, and underestimate their own strenght when applying the technique taught them years ago in training. That, or the stress of the moment clouds their temporal judgement, and they apply it for too long.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2016, 04:56:36 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 04:53:26 pm

One specific chokehold taught in police training was the probable cause of death last year during an arrest that made national news. The chokehold move came under investigation, but that concluded that it need not be removed from training, deeming it non lethal when used correctly. My guess is the problem lies with some folks who like to work out too much, and underestimate their own strenght when applying the technique taught them years ago in training. That, or the stress of the moment clouds their temporal judgement, and they apply it for too long.

For a second I thought you were talking about Eric Garner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner), which sounds very similar to what you're describing, chokehold and all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2016, 05:08:44 pm

Nah, it's was about a Dutch Caribbean called Mitch Henriquez, whose death even sparked BLM-like protests and riots in the Hague's district Schilderswijk. Two of the involved police officers are still being prosecuted.
While the choke hold was not removed from police training, police did add more warning about correct use of the technique to the course.
The intention of the chokehold is to make someone pass out quickly by restricting the artery running to their brain. If held too long, it can cause brain damage, or in this case even death, though oxygen deprivation.
If applied with too much force, or in the wrong spot, it can result in the larynx being damaged, or worse, the thyroid gland. The latter being a death sentence in severe cases through hormone overdose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on December 20, 2016, 05:12:18 pm

US is in a league of it's own, in there every man, his dog and the dogs squeaky bone have two guns each. In there, they kinda have a reason to shoot first. Or so they think anyways, I have no idea what is actually happening in a place with five times more prisoners per capita than world's average.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 20, 2016, 07:03:51 pm

War on drugs plus mandatory sentencing minimums. One creates numbers the other keeps them there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 21, 2016, 06:54:43 am

The European Court of Justice, the EU's Highest Court ruled that indiscriminate e-mail and phone record retention is illegal, in a challenge originally brought to the UK's snooper charter. (https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/dec/21/eus-highest-court-delivers-blow-to-uk-snoopers-charter) The impact on the UK should be minimal since they're leaving, but we poor Europeans that didn't vote to take back control of our democracy will now have to live with the jackboot of the EU enforcing the respect of our privacy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2016, 07:18:32 am

Don't be so goddamn bitter, Sheb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 21, 2016, 08:28:05 am

Well, re-reading it, it seemed it was an appeal against the 2014 version of the law. Of course, the precedent would nix the new law quite quick. I hope it goes down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 21, 2016, 10:10:59 am

So, the suspect they are looking for is a Tunisian that is actually known to authorities. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn) They know who he is because he left his ID papers in the truck (which seems like a strange thing to do), he had been arrested back in August, but was released later. And is thought to have pro-IS ties.

So, quite the shit hitting the fan here for Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 21, 2016, 10:21:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 21, 2016, 10:10:59 am

left his ID papers in the truck (which seems like a strange thing to do)

Meh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 21, 2016, 11:25:44 am

Cultural enrichment lel (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38056243)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 21, 2016, 03:48:31 pm

To be honest their uniforms weren't very threatening (since that was the charge the court ruled on).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 21, 2016, 04:43:40 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 21, 2016, 03:48:31 pm

To be honest their uniforms weren't very threatening (since that was the charge the court ruled on).

shariah police 4 u

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on December 21, 2016, 04:47:20 pm

It does say quite a lot that the general frightfulness of their clothes at the occasion is what is being questioned, however. If that is how far the barrel need to be scraped, then surely it would be easier to stitch together a case reguarding them calling themselves a form of "Police"? It is not that any one would believe they were genuine policemen, but it would be a more hopeful charge to pin their wings with.

Of course, there is a discussion to be had if voluntary and autonomous moral police should be allowed.

Quote from: smjjames on December 21, 2016, 10:10:59 am

So, the suspect they are looking for is a Tunisian that is actually known to authorities. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn) They know who he is because he left his ID papers in the truck (which seems like a strange thing to do), he had been arrested back in August, but was released later. And is thought to have pro-IS ties.

So, quite the shit hitting the fan here for Germany.

I do hope the hunt goes well. This one had the sense to try and survive, and that is a particularly dangerous (and, to me, somewhat irksome, as idiotic as it sounds) trait. With a bit of luck, there might be more rotten fish than just him in the net, if they catch him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 21, 2016, 06:31:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 21, 2016, 04:43:40 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 21, 2016, 03:48:31 pm

To be honest their uniforms weren't very threatening (since that was the charge the court ruled on).

shariah police 4 u

Your Friendly Neighborhood Shariah Police

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 22, 2016, 03:22:59 am

Quote from: Silverthrone on December 21, 2016, 04:47:20 pm

It does say quite a lot that the general frightfulness of their clothes at the occasion is what is being questioned, however. If that is how far the barrel need to be scraped, then surely it would be easier to stitch together a case reguarding them calling themselves a form of "Police"? It is not that any one would believe they were genuine policemen, but it would be a more hopeful charge to pin their wings with.

Of course, there is a discussion to be had if voluntary and autonomous moral police should be allowed.

I guess some forms of harassment charge would be the best, if they had actually done stuff that warrant so (Did they? All the article says they asked people to stop gambling and drinking, but I dunno if they acted in ways that would warrant harrassment charge).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 22, 2016, 04:20:35 am

Said they demanded. Not sure what they planned to do when/if people refused. I know I would've told them to witness jehovah elsewhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 22, 2016, 04:28:29 am

I would bet them for 5 euros that they wouldn't be able to stop me from gambling

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 22, 2016, 04:31:15 am

If I drank, I would agree to stop drinking if they could outdrink me.

But mostly I would tell them to fuck off because noone gets between me and my music. I will rain hellfire damnation and nanobot plagues before I stop listening to music for a reason like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 22, 2016, 05:10:57 am

Quote from: Covenant on December 22, 2016, 05:07:44 am

It's easy for us as individuals to say things like that on the internet. Perhaps it's different when you're surrounded by a bunch of aggressive men on an unfamiliar street at night.

Fuck 'Sharia police'. Let them live in Saudi Arabia or somewhere like that if they want to implement the police of vice and virtue.

Yeah, I echo the sentiment. But then you should be able to make a harassment charge stick or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 22, 2016, 06:28:28 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 22, 2016, 04:20:35 am

Said they demanded. Not sure what they planned to do when/if people refused. I know I would've told them to witness jehovah elsewhere.

gorilla warfare them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on December 23, 2016, 03:57:23 am

Quote from: Covenant on December 22, 2016, 05:07:44 am

It's easy for us as individuals to say things like that on the internet. Perhaps it's different when you're surrounded by a bunch of aggressive men on an unfamiliar street at night.

Fuck 'Sharia police'. Let them live in Saudi Arabia or somewhere like that if they want to implement the police of vice and virtue.

I mean, for one thing, I'm unlikely to be listening to music by myself on the street at night, especially an unfamiliar one, unless I'm walking home from somewhere. For another, I don't take well to bullies. There's a reason I wasn't really harassed after freshman year. It has to do with a chair and someone's face. (I also don't handle getting hit very calmly >.>)

Plus if they start assaulting me for listening to music that's some very clear charges to file.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on December 23, 2016, 06:20:27 am

Plane hijacket at Malta:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20161223/local/hijacked-libyan-plane-lands-in-malta.634664

Quote

Prime Minister Joseph Muscat tweeted he is informed of a potential hijack situation of an internal Libyan flight diverted to Malta. Security and emergency operations were standing by.

According to reports received by Times of Malta, the plane was on an internal flight from Sebha to Tripoli in Libya. A total of 111 passengers and a crew of seven are on board.

The reports indicated that one hijacker is on board. He is claiming to be in possession of a hand grenade.

The hijacker claiming to be pro-Gaddafi, said he was willing to let all passengers go apart from the crew, if his demands were met.

It is not known what his demands are at this stage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 23, 2016, 04:19:34 pm

Quote from: Covenant on December 22, 2016, 05:07:44 am

It's easy for us as individuals to say things like that on the internet. Perhaps it's different when you're surrounded by a bunch of aggressive men on an unfamiliar street at night.

Fuck 'Sharia police'. Let them live in Saudi Arabia or somewhere like that if they want to implement the police of vice and virtue.

Never doubt the power of a group enforcing a standard of morality, I really don't think the purpose of shariah police 4 u is to go after limp wristed libs, rather to ensure Muslims are not enticed by the entrapments of Western society. Maintain zeal versus the infidels
Libs get put in the crosshairs because they invariably are a bad influence on the faithful who must be removed. Given how shariah police are usually supportive of jihadist groups (as was the preacher on trial) it usually ends poorly for them
When nationality is weak, religious identity takes the forefront. Something constant since Rome - if you ask me, the shariah police are trouble enough, the shariah courts will be a far more severe issue for Western nations. Large foreign populations following the law courts of foreign nations do not share the same nation for long, one will have to attain dominance over the other
I also lmao at Merkel talking of how it's the constitution that applies and not shariah law (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/crossing-borders-with-shariah-the-role-of-islamic-law-in-german-courts-a-722477.html)
It's hilarious how despite everything she says sounding like it came from AFD pamphlets she's still the most liberal leader of Europe, guess it really is a case where if you say you agree with everyone then everyone tolerates your power regardless of results or sincerity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2016, 09:24:24 am

Quote

hijacker claiming to be pro-Gaddafi

he's a little late for that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 24, 2016, 09:28:27 am

Their demand, before letting go of the crewmen and surrendering, was that they would be allowed to form a pro-the late Gadaffi political party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 24, 2016, 09:36:57 am

In Malta?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 24, 2016, 10:21:43 am

Quote from: scriver on December 24, 2016, 09:36:57 am

In Malta?

Sure why not?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2016, 10:29:20 am

Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2016, 09:24:24 am

Quote

hijacker claiming to be pro-Gaddafi

he's a little late for that

Are there survivors of the Gaddafi family?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 24, 2016, 10:37:43 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2016, 10:29:20 am

Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 24, 2016, 09:24:24 am

Quote

hijacker claiming to be pro-Gaddafi

he's a little late for that

Are there survivors of the Gaddafi family?

There might be a son or two in exile somewhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on December 24, 2016, 11:56:08 am

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saif_al-Islam_Gaddafi), Al-Saadi Muammar Gaddafi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Saadi_Gaddafi), Hannibal Muammar Gaddafi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Muammar_Gaddafi), and of course, the most relevant - Muhammad Gaddafi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Gaddafi). There's also Ayesha Gaddafi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayesha_Gaddafi).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2016, 12:22:19 pm

Captured, captured, captured, asylum, travel ban? I suppose the last two could be the figureheads of a Gaddafi revival if they were allowed by foreign militaries

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 24, 2016, 01:22:44 pm

How likely is it these folk'll want a woman in charge, though? Even if she is a Gaddafi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2016, 05:31:13 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 24, 2016, 01:22:44 pm

How likely is it these folk'll want a woman in charge, though? Even if she is a Gaddafi.

Figureheads aren't usually in charge, they're just figureheads to lend legitimacy to the real rulers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 25, 2016, 02:43:09 am

For our coming elections in March, a new record of 81(!) political parties have registered to take part. While it is expected that not all 81 will manage end up on the election list, it's still... A lot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 25, 2016, 08:42:59 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 24, 2016, 01:22:44 pm

How likely is it these folk'll want a woman in charge, though? Even if she is a Gaddafi.

There are precedent of the daugther of previous leader leading Muslim countries. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 26, 2016, 09:30:59 pm

RIP in peas aleppo march

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 27, 2016, 04:54:03 pm

Meanwhile in Berlin, 7 refugees aged 15-21, of whom 6 Syrians and 1 Libyan, have been arrested on suspicion on setting fire to a homeless man.
It's already being called the 'anti-christmas carol of 2016'.

A 37-year old homeless man was sleeping on a bench in the subway station Schönleistrasse, when the group of seven lit him on fire.
His clothes burning, the man was saved from a fiery death by a U-bahn employee and bystanders.

The police immediatly shared video stills from the suspects with the general public, which prompted 6 out of 7 perpetrators to report themselves to the police.
The 7th was arrested later by officers in civilian clothes.

The police are still interrogating the 7, to get an answer to the question why on earth someone would set fire to the sleeping homeless man.
All but one of the perpetrators were already known to the police, some of them for violent crime.

The homeless man escaped unharmed due to quick response from a machinist with a fire hose. He will need new clothes though.
Berlin is home to between 3 and 10 thousand homeless (how much time is left for the worst pun of the year competition?). In the winter months the subway companies allow them to sleep on the benches in the stations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 27, 2016, 04:59:07 pm

wtf why you set fire to homeless people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 27, 2016, 05:14:03 pm

give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

(yeah, I'll see myself out now)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 27, 2016, 05:41:15 pm

Wtf germany give your refugees stuff to do they're too bored

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on December 27, 2016, 05:48:41 pm

Employ them in the kebab plants.
^{Kebab is easier to remove when its all in one place}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 28, 2016, 10:34:07 am

Quote from: Covenant on December 28, 2016, 08:25:02 am

I know, right? This refugee just tried to make a new friend and some racist German shot him! (http://www.focus.de/panorama/trotz-verstoss-gegen-waffengesetz-fluechtling-bei-einbruch-erschossen-staatsanwaltschaft-stellt-verfahren-gegen-jaeger-ein_id_6411326.html)

tbh albanians are europeans, therefore they can't enrich pensioners
checkmate atheists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

It seems that UK's media is already working on spreading Russian's anti-Merkel propaganda as the English arm of Putin's media machine to influence the upcoming elections. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747942/Rampaging-Syrian-migrants-KICK-BABY-bus-attack-paramedics)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 29, 2016, 03:33:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

It seems that UK's media is already working on spreading Russian's anti-Merkel propaganda as the English arm of Putin's media machine to influence the upcoming elections. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747942/Rampaging-Syrian-migrants-KICK-BABY-bus-attack-paramedics)

Telling the world what happens is propaganda? ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:40:51 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 29, 2016, 03:33:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

It seems that UK's media is already working on spreading Russian's anti-Merkel propaganda as the English arm of Putin's media machine to influence the upcoming elections. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747942/Rampaging-Syrian-migrants-KICK-BABY-bus-attack-paramedics)

Telling the world what happens is propaganda? ???

Yes, because they only tell part of what happens, if only because of the limited amount of space they have, and they select said part in order to influence you in a way they consider as beneficial for them. That's why Wikileaks is Russian propaganda, after all!

Besides, Express is a fucking tabloid, with news headlines like this: Ancient 'ETERNAL LIFE' bacteria leaves Russian scientist 'ILLNESS-FREE' (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/748081/Russia-science-bacteria-eternal-life-illness-free-longevity-experiments). So it could be simply made up, fake news style.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 29, 2016, 04:38:15 am

Yeah this sounds like completely fake bullshit news. If they'd really have kicked a 1-year old baby, it'd be mainstream headline news everywhere. Haven't seen in in the news, or newspapers here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 29, 2016, 05:37:15 am

I'm not trusting any news after the cover-ups in Sweden of rapes at two festivals in a row. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Sthlm_sexual_assaults)

But we'll see what happens this New Years Eve, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 12:14:18 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

It seems that UK's media is already working on spreading Russian's anti-Merkel propaganda as the English arm of Putin's media machine to influence the upcoming elections. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747942/Rampaging-Syrian-migrants-KICK-BABY-bus-attack-paramedics)

Do you have a single piece of evidence to back up any of the toss you're saying? No really, I'm waiting for any evidence at all that the UK's media is part of some world-spanning Putin media empire spreading propaganda.

As Shub-Nullgurath points out, the Germans tried covering up their own Cologne attacks and indeed before that, the scale of the migrant crisis or ISIS being amongst the refugees to begin with. By your perverted logic, was anyone covering up this savagery pro-Merkel?

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

Yes, because they only tell part of what happens, if only because of the limited amount of space they have, and they select said part in order to influence you in a way they consider as beneficial for them. That's why Wikileaks is Russian propaganda, after all!

Good Lord, are you actually calling Wikileaks Russian propaganda

...

I'm gonna let that stew

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

Besides, Express is a fucking tabloid, with news headlines like this: Ancient 'ETERNAL LIFE' bacteria leaves Russian scientist 'ILLNESS-FREE' (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/748081/Russia-science-bacteria-eternal-life-illness-free-longevity-experiments). So it could be simply made up, fake news style.

Then why are you posting fucking tabloids saying they represent the entirety of the UK media machine falling under a vast Russian conspiracy to undermine Merkel with no evidence whatsoever? God's sakes man there's so many levels of dishonesty going on

Quote from: martinuzz on December 29, 2016, 04:38:15 am

Yeah this sounds like completely fake bullshit news. If they'd really have kicked a 1-year old baby, it'd be mainstream headline news everywhere. Haven't seen in in the news, or newspapers here.

Because when have the Germans tried suppressing things migrants did (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12090655/German-authorities-accused-of-migrant-attack-cover-up.html)[/sarcasm]
I'm reminded too of the Bataclan theatre attacks, where the MSM reported the killings, but the information surrounding the eye gouging, forcing people to eat their own testicles and bodily mutilation was suppressed (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/15/french-terror-cover-up-bataclan-attack-included-gr/). It's considerably harder to prove authorities are lying when they are allowed to use their collective silence as proof of their sincerity. "I do not have that information" fucking lmao Euros, it really is true - you may be dying, but at least you're tolerant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 12:14:18 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

It seems that UK's media is already working on spreading Russian's anti-Merkel propaganda as the English arm of Putin's media machine to influence the upcoming elections. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747942/Rampaging-Syrian-migrants-KICK-BABY-bus-attack-paramedics)

Do you have a single piece of evidence to back up any of the toss you're saying? No really, I'm waiting for any evidence at all that the UK's media is part of some world-spanning Putin media empire spreading propaganda.

As Shub-Nullgurath points out, the Germans tried covering up their own Cologne attacks and indeed before that, the scale of the migrant crisis or ISIS being amongst the refugees to begin with. By your perverted logic, was anyone covering up this savagery pro-Merkel?

are you riled up m8

I'm only calling you out Brits for what you are - traitors to liberty and justice. Your oh-so-beloved "Brexit" has set up conditions for Trump to take over the bastion of freedom, USA, and that's unforgivable! Suppression of facts like Cologne attack is necessary in order to set up a more perfect society - if we don't, then the evil will rise up and use these facts to destroy our world!

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 12:14:18 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

Yes, because they only tell part of what happens, if only because of the limited amount of space they have, and they select said part in order to influence you in a way they consider as beneficial for them. That's why Wikileaks is Russian propaganda, after all!

Good Lord, are you actually calling Wikileaks Russian propaganda

...

I'm gonna let that stew

all cool kids are calling them that now

Who are you to doubt the judgement of the defenders of liberty? They all have a consensus - and that consensus tells us that he's a fucking Russian shill and that Wikileaks is a part of Russian propaganda machine (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/11/clinton-campaign-wikileaks-hack-russia-donald-trump). Besides, he himself have said that he won't cover Russia "because of the open and competitive debate he claimed exists there" (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/24/julian-assange-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-interview), and we all know that Russia is a society of tyrannical rule of oppression maintain by a bloodthirsty maniac, Vladimir Putin!

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 12:14:18 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:11:17 am

Besides, Express is a fucking tabloid, with news headlines like this: Ancient 'ETERNAL LIFE' bacteria leaves Russian scientist 'ILLNESS-FREE' (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/748081/Russia-science-bacteria-eternal-life-illness-free-longevity-experiments). So it could be simply made up, fake news style.

Then why are you posting fucking tabloids saying they represent the entirety of the UK media machine falling under a vast Russian conspiracy to undermine Merkel with no evidence whatsoever? God's sakes man there's so many levels of dishonesty going on

man chill out a bit will ya

Because tabloids are representing, if not the entirety, then the majority of UK media. The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation) the first non-tabloid newspaper is on a 7th fucking place. While they aren't exactly the primary source of news any longer, they still maintain their grasp over a significant portion of population.

And Britain is, while maybe not under vast Russian conspiracy, still working to further the goals of Russian invaders. We all know that Russia wants to destroy the free thinking world and replace it with a bunch of kingdoms of unchecked monstrousness and with unlimited dictatorships running all of them, and in order to do that, they need to annihilate the EU, that blue-white constellation of hope to rebel against injustice - which you, British people, have already begun to do with your Brexit backstab from within. I'm on to your games, traitors!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 29, 2016, 03:07:21 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

And Britain is, while maybe not under vast Russian conspiracy, still working to further the goals of Russian invaders. We all know that Russia wants to destroy the free thinking world and replace it with a bunch of kingdoms of unchecked monstrousness and with unlimited dictatorships running all of them, and in order to do that, they need to annihilate the EU, that blue-white constellation of hope to rebel against injustice - which you, British people, have already begun to do with your Brexit backstab from within. I'm on to your games, traitors!

If I were you, I'd take a break from watching all those Keith Olbermann videos, mate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:15:35 pm

Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 29, 2016, 03:07:21 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

And Britain is, while maybe not under vast Russian conspiracy, still working to further the goals of Russian invaders. We all know that Russia wants to destroy the free thinking world and replace it with a bunch of kingdoms of unchecked monstrousness and with unlimited dictatorships running all of them, and in order to do that, they need to annihilate the EU, that blue-white constellation of hope to rebel against injustice - which you, British people, have already begun to do with your Brexit backstab from within. I'm on to your games, traitors!

If I were you, I'd take a break from watching all those Keith Olbermann videos, mate.

but it's soooo fun and easy to be a mindless "freedom-liberty-democracy" drone and it makes me rack up popularity points like crazy in places that have them, for some weird reason, why'd I want to stop it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 03:49:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

are you riled up m8
I'm only calling you out Brits for what you are - traitors to liberty and justice.
Your oh-so-beloved "Brexit" has set up conditions for Trump to take over the bastion of freedom, USA, and that's unforgivable! Suppression of facts like Cologne attack is necessary in order to set up a more perfect society - if we don't, then the evil will rise up and use these facts to destroy our world!

Tbh I can't really take a Russian calling Westerners traitors to Westerners seriously, just seems like average Divide and Conquer shilling

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

all cool kids are calling them that now
Who are you to doubt the judgement of the defenders of liberty?

Jesus Christ the cringe, slap a warning label on that shit

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

They all have a consensus - and that consensus tells us that he's a fucking Russian shill and that Wikileaks is a part of Russian propaganda machine (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/11/clinton-campaign-wikileaks-hack-russia-donald-trump). Besides, he himself have said that he won't cover Russia "because of the open and competitive debate he claimed exists there" (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/24/julian-assange-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-interview), and we all know that Russia is a society of tyrannical rule of oppression maintain by a bloodthirsty maniac, Vladimir Putin!

How can you even say consensus when you're deliberately ignoring the entire opposite half of the political opinion, I understand Russia doesn't have democratic oppositions but you must at the very least be able to understand that in Western society there is more than one opinion on everything. Likewise it is foolish to say that Russia is not an authoritarian state and that Vladimir Putin has no blood on his hand; the Russian state has used a strong internal security apparatus since it was ruled by Tsars and Putin still shelters assassins who killed those who fled the Russian federation. I don't condone the demonization of Putin as some arch-devil, a la "Russian scum," yet I do not rush to an extreme and ignore he has blood on his hands. Foolish to rush to either extreme.

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

man chill out a bit will ya

putin pls

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

Because tabloids are representing, if not the entirety, then the majority of UK media. The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation) the first non-tabloid newspaper is on a 7th fucking place. While they aren't exactly the primary source of news any longer, they still maintain their grasp over a significant portion of population.

Yeah see what I mean, so many layers of fucking dishonesty going on here.
Tabloid journalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_journalism) is not the same as the Tabloid format (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_(newspaper_format)). I don't know what papers you were referring to as 7th place by circulation nor do I care, because you definitely passed over the Metro, the LSE, Telegraph perhaps to get to the Independent or Times.
Newspaper circulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation) is not the same, is not the majority of, is not the entirety of British media (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_the_United_Kingdom).
You ignored all of our journals, radio shows, online shows, magazines, news networks FFS and even the BBC. You know, the British Broadcasting Corporation News service, the one that is internationally renown and provides most of the UK's news? So let us ignore the BBC, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the Spectator, the Observer, the Times, Huffington UK, the Scotsman, the NYTimes, the Economist, Financial Times, Bloomberg, Reuters(!) - and also ignore that online media dominates where most people get their news from, this highlights easily just how full of shit you're being

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm

And Britain is, while maybe not under vast Russian conspiracy, still working to further the goals of Russian invaders. We all know that Russia wants to destroy the free thinking world and replace it with a bunch of kingdoms of unchecked monstrousness and with unlimited dictatorships running all of them, and in order to do that, they need to annihilate the EU, that blue-white constellation of hope to rebel against injustice - which you, British people, have already begun to do with your Brexit backstab from within. I'm on to your games, traitors!

If Putin sends his Russian invaders to Eastern Europe I think he'll find the British troops stationed there working diligently to frustrate the goals of Russian invaders :]

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:15:35 pm

but it's soooo fun and easy to be a mindless "freedom-liberty-democracy" drone and it makes me rack up popularity points like crazy in places that have them, for some weird reason, why'd I want to stop it?

Because pretending to be retarded makes you retarded

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on December 29, 2016, 04:14:55 pm

top quality shitposts today mates. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 04:22:30 pm

wew lad that's not banta u gotta go 2 jail mate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Guardian G.I. on December 29, 2016, 04:26:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 03:49:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:15:35 pm

but it's soooo fun and easy to be a mindless "freedom-liberty-democracy" drone and it makes me rack up popularity points like crazy in places that have them, for some weird reason, why'd I want to stop it?

Because pretending to be retarded makes you retarded

Actually this. This shtick wasn't good back then and certainly isn't good now.

Pretenting to be retarded only works if you are funny, otherwise it looks cringy af. Especially when it comes to politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 29, 2016, 05:58:38 pm

As I recall, Sergarr, you originally claimed your reason for pretending to be a westaboo was to "broaden your horizons", not to ingratiate yourself with the soldiers of the War Against Straw.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 06:11:40 pm

Quote from: Guardian G.I. on December 29, 2016, 04:26:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 03:49:55 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 03:15:35 pm

but it's soooo fun and easy to be a mindless "freedom-liberty-democracy" drone and it makes me rack up popularity points like crazy in places that have them, for some weird reason, why'd I want to stop it?

Because pretending to be retarded makes you retarded

Actually this. This shtick wasn't good back then and certainly isn't good now.

Pretenting to be retarded only works if you are funny, otherwise it looks cringy af. Especially when it comes to politics.

It is not intended to be funny, actually. It is "fun", because it is dumb as hell. It is also very terrifying that there are so many people who seriously think of the world in black-and-white terms like that. Especially in a place like America, you'd think that people who have been fighting against the Soviet Union just a few decades ago and witnessing its self-destruction would learn not to pick the bad authoritarian "singular obvious truth" habits from it - but apparently not!

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 29, 2016, 05:58:38 pm

As I recall, Sergarr, you originally claimed your reason for pretending to be a westaboo was to "broaden your horizons", not to ingratiate yourself with the soldiers of the War Against Straw.

As a wise man once said, "pretending to be retarded makes you retarded", and it seems that I've pretended to be a retarded westaboo for a bit too long than recommended. Stupid thing is like an addiction or something. At least now I understand why so many people are doing it, now the question is - how do we counter it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 29, 2016, 06:37:39 pm

If you really want to broaden your horizons you could always investigate the viewpoints of, you know, reasonable people instead of extremists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2016, 06:41:56 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 06:11:40 pm

It is not intended to be funny, actually. It is "fun", because it is dumb as hell.

This is why Harambe memes have to die

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 06:11:40 pm

As a wise man once said, "pretending to be retarded makes you retarded", and it seems that I've pretended to be a retarded westaboo for a bit too long than recommended. Stupid thing is like an addiction or something.

You gotta be careful, yesterday's irony is tomorrow's sincerity
It's like how method actors have to have counseling and psychiatry and shit so they don't jump off the deep end and have the role permanently ingrained in who the are for real

Quote from: Sergarr on December 29, 2016, 06:11:40 pm

At least now I understand why so many people are doing it, now the question is - how do we counter it?

Dank memes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98n1IbWJhYU)

Alternatively just don't stop it and allow it to unfold (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/politics/russia-election-hacking-sanctions.html)

Quote

The Obama administration was riven by an internal debate about how much of its evidence to make public.

Yeah I can't wait until this evidence is made public 80 years later

Reading how the DNC got hacked is hilarious (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html)
Stupid shit like ignoring FBI warnings cos they thought it was a prank call to this clear diamond

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/12/14/us/14HACK-tear1/14HACK1-master675.jpg)

TRUST ME I AM LEGITIMATE EMAIL PLS CHANGE PASSWORD WITH THIS LINK

The more evidence comes out, the more I am unclear whether it is factually true Russian hackers significantly altered the outcome of the US presidential elections. Like looking at this thing it mentions Gucciffer 2.0 being a hacker (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/27/us/politics/trail-of-dnc-emails-russia-hacking.html) but that is false, so I'm trying to figure out what else is false that is continuing to be circulated (http://www.csoonline.com/article/3128759/security/metadata-wrecks-guccifer-2-0s-claims-of-a-clinton-foundation-hack.html). This is rather frustrating as something definitely is going on and my intuition says Russian hackers were involved, however with no evidence cited beyond anonymous researchers or officials I can make no commitment to what I believe is true there.

In regards to Europe it seems rather obvious, shut down Russia Today and take personal accountability for one's own fuckups so that they can't be used as ammunition

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 30, 2016, 02:42:16 am

Well, to the Dems, the Russian hackers altered the trajectory by releasing the Podesta emails, therefore, the Russian hackers significantly altered it.

But honestly, the way that Clinton ran her campaign and how they did it, did far more damage than the Russian hackers could have. In fact, they've been pretty much blaming everybody BUT themselves and the campaign itself.

There are some Dems saying that the way Clinton ran her campaign is 99% to blame for failing, heck, this guy gives some pretty good insight as to where the campaign failed, though this is just one angle on it and theres more to it than just what was mentioned. (http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/21/14030754/hillary-clinton-michigan-loss-trump-republican-gary-peters) But they don't seem to be quite seeing where things went wrong, time will tell I suppose.

Edit: Waiiitaminute, this is the EU thread, why are we talking Ameripol in here? lol

edit2: Though yeah, the DNC royally screwed up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 30, 2016, 03:02:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 30, 2016, 02:42:16 am

Edit: Waiiitaminute, this is the EU thread, why are we talking Ameripol in here? lol

Because USA is obviously a part of EU, an unofficial one, and also the most important one. Just look at how much Obama has tried to keep Britain in, would he do that if he didn't have a staked interest in keeping EU firmly under the heel of American influence?

But yes, something more thread-title-relevant is in order....

It's technically not a part of EU, but it looks like Moldova's new President has just fired a pro-NATO defence minister from the previous President's administration. (http://www.moldova.org/en/president-igor-dodon-dismisses-defense-minister-anatol-salaru/) Lots of funny Eastern European power transition shenanigans going on there, it seems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Monitor Lisard on December 30, 2016, 03:36:26 am

EVIL RUSSIN HAKURZZ TAKING MUH FREEDOMS

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On a more serious note, the most of so called "russian propaganda" is meant for domestic consuption, the rest is just peanuts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 31, 2016, 08:27:13 pm

Turkey stuff goes in here I guess....

A nightclup in Istanbul got attacked, at least 35 people dead. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38481521)

Politico article with some actual context as to why the gunman (or gunmen) were wearing Santa costumes (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/turkish-nightclub-shooting-istanbul-233090). The santa costume thing had me really confused (because Christmas is over, for one, although I hear that the Orthodox Christmas is a bit later) until i found the politico article, and it's the only one that actually gives any context as to why.

Apparently some of the police were disgused as santa and some as vendors.... but being santa only works for the few weeks up to and on Christmas. After that, it doesn't work because you just stick out like a sore thumb, also, a MUSLIM country of all places.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 31, 2016, 08:29:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2016, 08:27:13 pm

Turkey stuff goes in here I guess....

A nightclup in Istanbul got attacked, at least 35 people dead. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38481521)

Politico article with some actual context as to why the gunman (or gunmen) were wearing Santa costumes (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/turkish-nightclub-shooting-istanbul-233090). The santa costume thing had me really confused (because Christmas is over, for one, although I hear that the Orthodox Christmas is a bit later) until i found the politico article, and it's the only one that actually gives any context as to why.

Apparently some of the police were disgused as santa and some as vendors.... but being santa only works for the few weeks up to and on Christmas. After that, it doesn't work because you just stick out like a sore thumb, also, a MUSLIM country of all places.

Your link instantly brought me to a malware / false ads ("YOU HAVE BEEN RANDOMLY SELECTED") page, what's up with that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 31, 2016, 08:34:41 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 31, 2016, 08:29:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2016, 08:27:13 pm

Turkey stuff goes in here I guess....

A nightclup in Istanbul got attacked, at least 35 people dead. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38481521)

Politico article with some actual context as to why the gunman (or gunmen) were wearing Santa costumes (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/turkish-nightclub-shooting-istanbul-233090). The santa costume thing had me really confused (because Christmas is over, for one, although I hear that the Orthodox Christmas is a bit later) until i found the politico article, and it's the only one that actually gives any context as to why.

Apparently some of the police were disgused as santa and some as vendors.... but being santa only works for the few weeks up to and on Christmas. After that, it doesn't work because you just stick out like a sore thumb, also, a MUSLIM country of all places.

Your link instantly brought me to a malware / false ads ("YOU HAVE BEEN RANDOMLY SELECTED") page, what's up with that?

O.o Wierd, that's just a BBC link, I have adblock on however. Also, I haven't seen any other places mentioning the same thing with the police using santa as a disguise (why not just go plainclothes? Hide in plain sight and all that), so, I don't know if that is actually what they did, otherwise the terrorists being disgused as santa looks very strange.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 02, 2017, 10:16:26 am

So, apparently Europeans have been sufficiently pissed off to start racially profiling and detaining hundreds of "North African looking" men on New Year's Eve (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/01/cologne-police-detain-hundreds-north-african-men-new-year/) to prevent the repeat of last year's sexual assaults in Cologne.

In other news, the migrants have made a police officer lose an eye (https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-1-000-migrants-storm-border-spains-ceuta-161029585.html) in a violent 1100-men-strong assault on Spain's border fence, in Ceuta's enclave bordering Morocco. Standard refugee behaviour, nothing to see here, move along, citizens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 02, 2017, 10:38:58 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 02, 2017, 10:16:26 am

So, apparently Europeans have been sufficiently pissed off to start racially profiling and detaining hundreds of "North African looking" men on New Year's Eve (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/01/cologne-police-detain-hundreds-north-african-men-new-year/) to prevent the repeat of last year's sexual assaults in Cologne.

In other news, the migrants have made a police officer lose an eye (https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-1-000-migrants-storm-border-spains-ceuta-161029585.html) in a violent 1100-men-strong assault on Spain's border fence, in Ceuta's enclave bordering Morocco. Standard refugee behaviour, nothing to see here, move along, citizens.

People are pieces of shit news at 11 :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 02, 2017, 03:32:17 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 02, 2017, 10:16:26 am

So, apparently Europeans have been sufficiently pissed off to start racially profiling and detaining hundreds of "North African looking" men on New Year's Eve (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/01/cologne-police-detain-hundreds-north-african-men-new-year/) to prevent the repeat of last year's sexual assaults in Cologne.

Those crimes should have been prosecuted normally; now racists can easily dismiss liberal censure with an "I told you those brown people were raping the women."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 05:47:27 pm

Yaaaas, it's criminal to be a little bit tan now.

It's totally alright though, seeing as it won't affect me. The Celtic blood is strong in this one, no chance of me being mistaken for a Nafri and detained 'cause I'm brown. Awesome.

There is such a thing as over-correction, Cologne. Fackin' 'ell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 07:15:52 pm

That's because their solution was to judge someone's criminal nature based on the colour of their skin, as opposed to the likelihood of them committing the crimes they're being "prevented" from committing.

Christ, increased police presence would probably have sufficed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 02, 2017, 08:17:36 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 07:15:52 pm

That's because their solution was to judge someone's criminal nature based on the colour of their skin, as opposed to the likelihood of them committing the crimes they're being "prevented" from committing.

Christ, increased police presence would probably have sufficed.

now you're just pissed because underneath you know cultural profiling works and it unsettles your belief.


btw you cannot magically materialize unlimited police at the correct time/place. what kind of fantasy world you live in? they bolstered numbers however they could, but covering a city spreads them all a lot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 02, 2017, 08:21:54 pm

Or maybe hector's just not into fascism. If you stick every black and tan person in Europe in camps you probably will catch some criminals, alongside all the innocents.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 02, 2017, 08:23:20 pm

So, the idea of laws preventing thoughtcrime is terrible

But, when you base it off how someone looks, instead, it's okay

Alright then.

EDIT: Adam Smith had it right. It is more important that the innocent go free than the guilty be punished. (obviously both are best, but you get the point) When innocence is no defense, then the rule of law breaks down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 02, 2017, 08:17:36 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 07:15:52 pm

That's because their solution was to judge someone's criminal nature based on the colour of their skin, as opposed to the likelihood of them committing the crimes they're being "prevented" from committing.

Christ, increased police presence would probably have sufficed.

now you're just pissed because underneath you know cultural profiling works and it unsettles your belief.


btw you cannot magically materialize unlimited police at the correct time/place. what kind of fantasy world you live in? they bolstered numbers however they could, but covering a city spreads them all a lot.

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin, and that, if you'll excuse the bluntness, is utterly fucking stupid. It doesn't "unsettle my belief", it goes completely against it.

I'm curious for the source of your assertion that racial profiling works, though. Seems like security forces of the world are missing a trick if you're right.

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city, just the main parts where people gather. This can be made easier by holding official gatherings or outlining places where people can celebrate together. Strategic placement is better than trying to assuage the town in security. You don't need unlimited police to do that.

Prevention is better than the cure, especially if that cure involves labeling people criminals based on skin colour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 02, 2017, 09:01:39 pm

Technically, detaining people before they've committed a crime is prevention, not a cure. :/

It's just a pretty shitty thing to do, regardless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 02, 2017, 09:39:40 pm

Its a pretty shitty thing to do, but its also pretty shitty that the whole situation has become so utterly ridiculous in the region that measures such as these need to be applied, or else you get a second mass abuse episode. People can cry crocodile tears and call the policemen fascists all day, but if actual border control was a thing in the first place, then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Inb4 the media outcry about this actualy becomes larger then the one about the mass abuse in cologne months back, because womens' safety is only a thing to worry about when it fits the major narrative, as usual.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2017, 03:28:04 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city

we live in  a world where sharia patrol purposely stalk alone women in less populared areas

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin.

nope it's a problem with the islamic system of belief ( woman without male escort deserves rape, gay deserve violent deaths and such), and we're significantly importing more than we can civilize

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2017, 03:31:42 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 02, 2017, 08:17:36 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 07:15:52 pm

That's because their solution was to judge someone's criminal nature based on the colour of their skin, as opposed to the likelihood of them committing the crimes they're being "prevented" from committing.

Christ, increased police presence would probably have sufficed.

now you're just pissed because underneath you know cultural profiling works and it unsettles your belief.


btw you cannot magically materialize unlimited police at the correct time/place. what kind of fantasy world you live in? they bolstered numbers however they could, but covering a city spreads them all a lot.

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin, and that, if you'll excuse the bluntness, is utterly fucking stupid. It doesn't "unsettle my belief", it goes completely against it.

I'm curious for the source of your assertion that racial profiling works, though. Seems like security forces of the world are missing a trick if you're right.

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city, just the main parts where people gather. This can be made easier by holding official gatherings or outlining places where people can celebrate together. Strategic placement is better than trying to assuage the town in security. You don't need unlimited police to do that.

Prevention is better than the cure, especially if that cure involves labeling people criminals based on skin colour.

This is what prevention looks like. This is what showing that the police is present looks like.

Now I'm not super good at neither English, German, nor German-to-English legal terms, but it says these people where "detained". It makes a difference between these and those "arrested overnight". From context, it looks like all this means is that these detainees were stopped and made to identify themselves. What is this if not the police making the statement that "we are here, know who you are, don't try anything"?

Remember, Cologne has a populace of a million, with lots of partiers streaming in from outside for the celebrations. 100 people was held overnight, and there's no indication in the article this isn't the entire sum of arrests for the night, including the usual unruly drunks and criminals. Is that a number to be upset over?

"But scriver", my make-believe dialogue partner objects, "what's the problem isn't the amount of people detained, but how the detainees were selected". But if this group is known to have been disproportionally perpetrating these crimes last year, should the police instead just pretend those facts does not exist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 03, 2017, 03:38:53 am

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2017, 03:28:04 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city

we live in  a world where sharia patrol purposely stalk alone women in less populared areas

Quote from: hector13 on January 02, 2017, 08:49:15 pm

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin.

nope it's a problem with the islamic system of belief ( woman without male escort deserves rape, gay deserve violent deaths and such), and we're significantly importing more than we can civilize

Ah yes that uniquely Islamic system of belief that exists nowhere else in any of the testaments, and which all muslims hold in identical fashion, because there are not separate groups and sects of Islam.

Detained could as easily be held for an hour or more, scriver. Additionally, creating antagonism between average group members and police officers rarely ends well. Literally look at the relationship between American police forces and African-Americans, and tell me whether you think doing so has improved the situation, or whether it's deteriorated trust in the law to the point that it becomes hard to maintain it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2017, 03:44:08 am

lol no most other belief system were replaced with freedom of tought in time but nice try.


beside what you're proposing is inhumane: waiting a mob to start and 'control' it through police, as if that won't result in violence and as if policemen aren't human being too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 03, 2017, 06:41:45 am

Interesting rundown of everything Islam related that happened in Germany over the past year. (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9700/germany-islamization)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2017, 09:37:52 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 03, 2017, 03:38:53 am

Additionally, creating antagonism between average group members and police officers rarely ends well. Literally look at the relationship between American police forces and African-Americans, and tell me whether you think doing so has improved the situation, or whether it's deteriorated trust in the law to the point that it becomes hard to maintain it?

Well, duh. The thing is that it is further deteriorating of the trust in law to do nothing. In Kalmar, the Swedish city reportedly hit the worst one year ago, barely any women showed up for the celebrations this year/url], presumably because they do not trust the law to protect them. The fear of dealing with this problem is causing women to stay home or away from the squares of their own streets out of fear of being abused or worse. But hey, the sexual harassment reports were down 97%, so it's clearly good for the statistics!

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous. (http://www.barometern.se/kalmar/kvinnor-ratade-larmtorget/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 10:16:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 03, 2017, 10:04:01 am

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians (https://www.thelocal.de/20160113/crime-rates-different-north-africa-syria-migrants). 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2017, 10:48:16 am

Numbers are partially skewed by the order of underreport and mis report syrian refugees crimes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 03, 2017, 10:53:55 am

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 09:37:52 am

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 03, 2017, 11:04:41 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 03, 2017, 10:53:55 am

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 09:37:52 am

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

Well for one they're homegrown. With an ocean to cross there's little chance for migration waves like what  we see. If anything the parallel are better drawn between usa latinoes and our middle easterners, but still it's quite flawed a comparison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 03, 2017, 11:57:44 am

Yeeeeeeeea, I don't see any significant parallels between the situation of african americans in the US and all the different people's that encompass the refugee wave in Europe.

Racial issues in the US seem to steem mostly from recent historical and domestic issues, while the issues in the EU steem from the massive cultural, religious and social clash you're expected to get when you try to integrate millions of people who come from cultural, traditional and religious backgrounds almost diametrically opposed to the domestic one. US african americans are actual americans, born and raised, sharing in its culture and customs, while the refugees come from different countries with different backgrounds.

Trying to compare both groups and blaming all of it purely on "racism" seems to me as a very dishonest and cheap way to ignore the actual issues in play (and not do anything about it) and just blame one group or another for it, which is, ironically, kinda racist when you think about it :U

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2017, 04:14:00 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 10:16:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 03, 2017, 10:04:01 am

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians (https://www.thelocal.de/20160113/crime-rates-different-north-africa-syria-migrants). 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

Syrians don't look particularly more different to the average north european than North Africans does. Do you think North Africans are actually black, in the sense that afro-americans and sub-saharan Africans are? Because they aren't - they're Arabs. Black North Africans are tiny minorities. You might as well switch syrians with blacks and north africans with whites.

Quote from: hector13 on January 03, 2017, 10:53:55 am

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 09:37:52 am

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

The situation in America is rooted in a long history of oppression, repression, and depression that out-elders the country itself. Europe's situation is modern. Comparing the relationship of the American police and the Afro-American populace to the one between European states and immigrants is comparing a relationship that is based on roughly 175 years of systematic repression (just after the whole slavery thing) to one where people have arrived within a generation from now and encountered modern, European, police policies and laws rather than the ingrained racism of the American system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2017, 05:35:48 pm

mfw europe
(http://i.imgur.com/u9YLg8s.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 06:33:42 pm

I'm just being skeptical about the statistics. I'll admit it's a flawed example, but I was trying to explain the skepticsm. Besides, how is it that the Syrian refugees have a crime rate that is probably on par with most immigrants and natives, and the refugees fron North Africa have a much higher rate? There wasn't any link to the data itself, just a mention of the percentages for Syrians and for North Africans (or Maghrebians as the article puts it).

Just throwing percentages around without giving actual data, especially when the groups...

*goes afk*

*comes back and reads new posts*

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 04:14:00 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 10:16:38 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 03, 2017, 10:04:01 am

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians (https://www.thelocal.de/20160113/crime-rates-different-north-africa-syria-migrants). 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

Syrians don't look particularly more different to the average north european than North Africans does. Do you think North Africans are actually black, in the sense that afro-americans and sub-saharan Africans are? Because they aren't - they're Arabs. Black North Africans are tiny minorities. You might as well switch syrians with blacks and north africans with whites.

I'll admit I may have misunderstood or misconceptualized as to the color of the skin, or made a false assumption. And also laid some of my own countries history over the situation, typical American, am I rite? heh

The main reason why I was being skeptical, even if my reasoning for it is off, is because there were no details given for the statistics. All the article does is say X percentage of group Y and A percentage of group B, we don't know the numbers here and it doesn't link to the source of the statistic (unless I missed it). 0.5 percent of how much? 40% of how much?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2017, 07:00:51 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 06:51:25 pm

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Why are a bunch of North African immigrants coming over if the "refugee crisis" is supposed to be Syrian refugees (which, go figure, according to those statistics are remarkably behaved)? Was the response to trying to sort out who was a refugee and who wasn't simply to let them all in

Nah the EU has just always had an open door

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 07:08:31 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 06:51:25 pm

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Why are a bunch of North African immigrants coming over if the "refugee crisis" is supposed to be Syrian refugees (which, go figure, according to those statistics are remarkably behaved)? Was the response to trying to sort out who was a refugee and who wasn't simply to let them all in

People from North Africa have been trying to get into Europe long before the whole Syria mess erupted. In fact, the European immigrant crisis before the Syrian exodus took focus were the smuggler boats taking people from North Africa to Europe (commonly Italy) and those boats often sank.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 03, 2017, 07:22:20 pm

North africans have been trying to get to europe since basically forever, and its always been kind of a huge issue, specially through italy. Now with merkel spreading germany's legs to the worldthe middle east, it only made things worse. These guys will do anything to get a chance at it too. Here's a particulary disturbing video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJKCxhWSHw) of a group of misc african immigrants intentionaly capsizing their boat near a fishing vessel because they mistook it for a coast guard ship and though they'd get rescued.

Most of them drowned.
_{Let that sink in
pffft sorry}

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-parrot.gif)YOU CAN'T STOP ME

The guys couldn't just take them on board cause they'd present a huge security risk and because its not unknown for pirates to pass for immigrants or refugees and then capture boats when they're brought on board.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 07:24:59 pm

Imagine a party.

The guy on the door won't just let people not on the guest list come in.

A guy wants to go to the party but isn't on the list, so he puts himself in danger. Maybe it's raining so he runs across the road to the house, slips, and whacks his head on the pavement. The door guy isn't a bastard, so helps him into the lobby rather than leave him facedown in the rain. The guy gets himself back up and tries to slip into the party before someone else spots him so he can have a good time, even though nobody wants him there or really wants him in.

Another guy is taking a smoke break outside the next party over and is attacked by some thugs. He runs for the safety protected by the huge guy at the party's door and the door guy lets him in so he isn't beaten up by the thugs (They later throw firecrackers over the wall into the party garden). The guy realises that this party is much better than the one he came from, and as long as he can't go back to the party all his mates are at because of the thugs, he should check out the real party instead of waiting in the lobby with all the guys who ran across the road and knocked themself out trying to get in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 07:53:38 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 07:45:05 pm

Yeah, mainland Europe sounds fucked.

Damn straight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2017, 08:15:53 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 07:17:18 pm

Yeah, it seems then that to those who tried to compare it to the US, that these are entirely different situations. It especially seems that, at least in the US, that people kind of mixed up these two things into one "migration" crisis despite the fact that they're two entirely different things.

It's one immigrant crisis. The actual Syrian refugees were a minority among the immigrants that arrived in 2014-15 (even including people with basis for asylum from other countries). Media kept referring to them all as refugees regardless, despite how it made it seem like they all came from Syria. This is the kind of thing people is getting at when they talk about media narratives regarding immigration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2017, 08:21:04 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 07:04:53 pm

Now, I'm all for making it easy to immigrate, or at least easier than how the US currently has it (or at least less costly/miserable), but open doors? You're just asking for conflict that way.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/da87WrI.png)

Red = Countries with serious conflicts going on, pretty much all of them except for Ukraine related to islamism
Blue = Countries who have skimpy borders and that doesn't mean they're asking for it, we don't country slut blame here

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 07:24:59 pm

Imagine a party.
The guy on the door won't just let people not on the guest list come in.
A guy wants to go to the party but isn't on the list, so he puts himself in danger. Maybe it's raining so he runs across the road to the house, slips, and whacks his head on the pavement. The door guy isn't a bastard, so helps him into the lobby rather than leave him facedown in the rain. The guy gets himself back up and tries to slip into the party before someone else spots him so he can have a good time, even though nobody wants him there or really wants him in.
Another guy is taking a smoke break outside the next party over and is attacked by some thugs. He runs for the safety protected by the huge guy at the party's door and the door guy lets him in so he isn't beaten up by the thugs (They later throw firecrackers over the wall into the party garden). The guy realises that this party is much better than the one he came from, and as long as he can't go back to the party all his mates are at because of the thugs, he should check out the real party instead of waiting in the lobby with all the guys who ran across the road and knocked themself out trying to get in.

The EU is a big neighbourhood. Lots of families have their own homes cobbled together with their own front doors and walled off gardens and such, but one day the Europeans get a bright idea - what if they knocked down all of their doors and turned all of their houses into one super-apartment. Sounds great, and if anyone disagrees you just ignore them and keep knocking down doors anyways. Things get better as all the students realize it's really fun going through everyone elses houses without having to ask for permission, everyone trusts one another anyways so it's no big deal.
The surrounding neighbourhoods were absolutely fucked, and got even more fucked as time went on. The sheer levels of fuckery that occurred could not be detailed in one simple post, no the fuckery could not be contained, spreading into other neighbourhoods and causing even more fuckery. Some of the families in the European neighbourhood were even involved in the fuckery, returning home to their big neighbourhood with loot and shit.
That's when the European homeowners council start getting complaints. They forgot to install a gate for their little community. Suddenly loads of people start showing up; it's ok though, France can vouch for them. But the volume is increasing further and that's when things take a complete fucking shit turn, tens of thousands of families moving in from Africa, prompting the German family to say everyone who arrives from Syria is welcome, especially Syrians from Africa who have never been in Syria before
The European homeowners spend so long arguing with the European homeowners council that nothing gets done and the Serbian family is panicking telling everyone else that jihadis are moving into the apartments. The Austrian and the Hungarian families are busy boarding their houses up whilst the British family is deeply concerned with the recent string of murders taking place amongst the European families, in order to placate their fears the European homeowners council decides to hire one Turkish bouncer to police the European community but he doesn't even do his job and just stands by his gate smoking euro notes whilst everyone walks past.

Fast forward 3 years. Most families have determined that the European council association of homeowners is feckless and have just reinstalled their doors. Nevertheless they have to now share their home with four men called Umar and one of them goes on about how he doesn't support ISIS, but understands it, sharpening his machete whilst reading lewd theology. The Swedish family laments that although they fucked their house over and they can no longer pay the bills or stop the house from falling apart, at least they were tolerant. The German family is haunted by the fact that every time a jihad lorry runs into the house, their Grandpa starts quoting mein kampf on his twitter; in response the German family have decided to keep the door open but demand that no one wear burkas inside the house. Them's the rules. The French family have decided too that anyone who wants to use their beaches have to wear bikinis or go nude, that is simply the French way. The British have started a bonfire using sterling notes whilst a grey Englishman simply yells 'we burn sterling you burn Churches doo da, doo da.' The Hungarian family decides that one fence is not enough, they need 2Fence. The Ukrainian family pretends like people have actually noticed them. The polish family shrugs its shoulders in confusion, no migrants ever tried moving into their house, and the door is still open. The Croatians and Serbians remind arrivals that their houses are still full of landmines and they don't know where they put them all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 08:22:54 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 08:15:53 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 07:17:18 pm

Yeah, it seems then that to those who tried to compare it to the US, that these are entirely different situations. It especially seems that, at least in the US, that people kind of mixed up these two things into one "migration" crisis despite the fact that they're two entirely different things.

It's one immigrant crisis. The actual Syrian refugees were a minority among the immigrants that arrived in 2014-15 (even including people with basis for asylum from other countries). Media kept referring to them all as refugees regardless, despite how it made it seem like they all came from Syria. This is the kind of thing people is getting at when they talk about media narratives regarding immigration.

The stream coming from Syria caught the medias attention because it was such a massive influx all at once that it completely overwhelmed the system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 08:37:32 pm

@Whispa because I ain't quoting that monster post

I wasn't making an analogy about the incredibly fucked situation causing the crisis it was about why you have two main types of immigrants in Germany and why the crime rate in one is reportedly 80 times higher. Ones a partycrasher who has discovered that despite what his mate who sold him directions said the party is not in fact nirvana while the other is just glad to be in a party at all instead of being beaten up by thugs.

Both know it's not really their party, but only one is smashing up the place

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2017, 08:41:19 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 08:37:32 pm

@Whispa because I ain't quoting that monster post

Somebody's gotta do it

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 03, 2017, 08:37:32 pm

I wasn't making an analogy about the incredibly fucked situation causing the crisis it was about why you have two main types of immigrants in Germany and why the crime rate in one is reportedly 80 times higher. Ones a partycrasher who has discovered that despite what his mate who sold him directions said the party is not in fact nirvana while the other is just glad to be in a party at all instead of being beaten up by thugs.
Both know it's not really their party, but only one is smashing up the place

I would disagree on the last point, both know it is their party, both know euros are too old. While Europeans are doing disco, Newropeans are doing ironic peppa pig halal remix raves; it's clear to whom the future belongs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2017, 09:20:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 03, 2017, 08:22:54 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 03, 2017, 08:15:53 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 03, 2017, 07:17:18 pm

Yeah, it seems then that to those who tried to compare it to the US, that these are entirely different situations. It especially seems that, at least in the US, that people kind of mixed up these two things into one "migration" crisis despite the fact that they're two entirely different things.

It's one immigrant crisis. The actual Syrian refugees were a minority among the immigrants that arrived in 2014-15 (even including people with basis for asylum from other countries). Media kept referring to them all as refugees regardless, despite how it made it seem like they all came from Syria. This is the kind of thing people is getting at when they talk about media narratives regarding immigration.

The stream coming from Syria caught the medias attention because it was such a massive influx all at once that it completely overwhelmed the system.

No, smjj" you're still not getting it. Most of that "stream coming from Syria" you saw on tv weren't coming from Syria. Syrian refugees were a minority among these immigrants. If only people from Syria had arrived then we wouldn't have had nearly the same kind of breakdown as we did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 03, 2017, 09:36:25 pm

Dunno if I would say Uganda and co.'s issues are Islam related...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 02:43:21 am

@Americans: You also have to remember that a lot of migrants are purely economic in nature since they can come here and live off welfare and send the money back home. Sometimes they even claim for the kids they have back home on our welfare system.

The UK media / government claims there's no fraud in the system (or if it is, it's minimal) but you can't detect fraud anyway so they essentially make up those statistics.

As an example of a common fraud method, when I was in college I knew a guy from Liberia who was integrating pretty nicely. He was a nice enough fella all round. He told me he went from welfare office to welfare office, gave each a new name, got a new National Insurance number and then collected £50 from each every week. It was a total of about 10 offices that he managed in a single trip so about £500 weekly, £2000 monthly (which was about $3500 a month at that point, for a day's "work" a week).

He was also getting free college tuition from the government and wore very nice clothing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This WAS in Liverpool and pretty much everyone I knew on welfare there somehow cheated the system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on January 04, 2017, 05:11:18 am

(removed)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:22:28 am

(removed)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 05:57:43 am

Are you advocating violence?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 06:27:15 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 05:57:43 am

Are you advocating violence?

That's the core of the issue. It'd be inhumane not to help them, but once they're here thay cannot be deported (they come with no document and origin country won't take them back), they won't integrate and they will brew hate and resentement for being sold lies about the life in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 06:40:25 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 02:43:21 am

@Americans: You also have to remember that a lot of migrants are purely economic in nature since they can come here and live off welfare and send the money back home. Sometimes they even claim for the kids they have back home on our welfare system.

The UK media / government claims there's no fraud in the system (or if it is, it's minimal) but you can't detect fraud anyway so they essentially make up those statistics.

As an example of a common fraud method, when I was in college I knew a guy from Liberia who was integrating pretty nicely. He was a nice enough fella all round. He told me he went from welfare office to welfare office, gave each a new name, got a new National Insurance number and then collected £50 from each every week. It was a total of about 10 offices that he managed in a single trip so about £500 weekly, £2000 monthly (which was about $3500 a month at that point, for a day's "work" a week).

He was also getting free college tuition from the government and wore very nice clothing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This WAS in Liverpool and pretty much everyone I knew on welfare there somehow cheated the system.

It sounds like the problem is caused by a lack of inter-office coordination; the problem listed could be fixed if one office worked with the other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 07:35:37 am

ISIS claiming benefits in Europe I'm dying lmao  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm dying like Western civilization  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-syria-benefit-payments-fighters-receive-money-denmark-a7497326.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 04, 2017, 08:23:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 07:35:37 am

ISIS claiming benefits in Europe I'm dying lmao  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm dying like Western civilization  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-syria-benefit-payments-fighters-receive-money-denmark-a7497326.html)

Oh for fucks sake. So what exactly does giving benefits to your citizens have to do with 'Europe is dying'?
Screaming I'm dying lmao at every thing involving Syria or general EU whateverness is getting a bit old. You are fully capable of writing more constructive shitposts. <3

I'm not surprised some benefits make it to Syria. There's lots of unemployed everywhere receiving benefits.
So how would you have prevented this? Employ a civil inspector on a 1:1 basis for every person receiving benefits that is not 100% Swedish-Aryan, to spy on them  24/7 so they don't go to a foreign country with their benefits?

Or would you rather just change the law so that coloured people and jews can no longer get benefits?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 08:43:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 04, 2017, 08:23:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 07:35:37 am

ISIS claiming benefits in Europe I'm dying lmao  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm dying like Western civilization  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-syria-benefit-payments-fighters-receive-money-denmark-a7497326.html)

Oh for fucks sake. So what exactly does giving benefits to your citizens have to do with 'Europe is dying'?
Screaming I'm dying lmao at every thing involving Syria or general EU whateverness is getting a bit old. You are fully capable of writing more constructive shitposts. <3

I'm not surprised some benefits make it to Syria. There's lots of unemployed everywhere receiving benefits.
So how would you have prevented this? Employ a civil inspector on a 1:1 basis for every person receiving benefits that is not 100% Swedish-Aryan, to spy on them  24/7 so they don't go to a foreign country with their benefits?

Or would you rather just change the law so that coloured people and jews can no longer get benefits?

This is what Europeans actually believe ahahaha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 04, 2017, 08:50:36 am

Martinuz, it's not like it would be hard for security services to check off their lists of people fighting for Syria to the lists of people receiving state benefits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 08:52:29 am

Quote from: scriver on January 04, 2017, 08:50:36 am

Martinuz, it's not like it would be hard for security services to check off their lists of people fighting for Syria to the lists of people receiving state benefits.

Nah fam, fuck having laws and borders and shit, that's for Nazis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 04, 2017, 09:20:05 am

Danes should now prosecute themselves for supporting terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 09:23:46 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 05:57:43 am

Are you advocating violence?

Not at all, just saying that's the only real solution for a country to control it's borders. Also, is saying we should go to war advocating violence?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 04, 2017, 09:27:01 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 09:23:46 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 05:57:43 am

Are you advocating violence?

Not at all, just saying that's the only real solution for a country to control it's borders. Also, is saying we should go to war advocating violence?

So you think it's a war now?

You do know what the word "advocate" means, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 04, 2017, 09:27:09 am

Quote from: scriver on January 04, 2017, 08:50:36 am

Martinuz, it's not like it would be hard for security services to check off their lists of people fighting for Syria to the lists of people receiving state benefits.

True, but it is very hard to check the list of everyone recieving state benefits to see if any of them are travelling to Syria.
Basically what you said happened now. People fighting in Syria made it to the security services list, and are now losing their benefits.

Ofcourse you could do what Belgium used to do: Make people recieving benefits report to the social welfare office once a week, or every day. I think Belgium got rid of that though, probably because of excessive overhead costs. (Is 'stempelen' still a thing, Sheb?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 10:06:45 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 04, 2017, 09:27:01 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 09:23:46 am

Quote from: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 05:57:43 am

Are you advocating violence?

Not at all, just saying that's the only real solution for a country to control it's borders. Also, is saying we should go to war advocating violence?

So you think it's a war now?

You do know what the word "advocate" means, right?

I'm trying to work out what the hell he means by "advocating violence".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 10:49:22 am

"Any means necessary" is a very dangerous phrase, better to define exactly what your limits are from the start so you don't slippery slope into sinking Germany beneath the waves or turn into literal Hitler

Besides I like this Europe more, it has way more banter. Moreover I reckon you don't actually need all that much force, as a murder wall is expensive and targets poorly. Deploy military force against the human traffickers, destroy their boats and supplies of boats, that's the job done and you can do the rest with regular judicial system and border control, thus allowing you to not go full nazi, retard or some variation in between. This allows nations like Sweden and Germany to have their refugees, have their refugees be refugees, let the rest of the Europeans not get beheaded, whilst also not being a brutalitarian catastrophe or suicidal floppiness

It is useful to remind everyone that there are more than two options. We do not have to choose between filling the Med with sea mines or saying fuck laws and borders and shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 11:06:25 am

Seed the border with tentacle monsters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DJ on January 04, 2017, 11:08:41 am

Or they could start incarcerating illegal immigrants that can't be deported because they destroyed their papers. Keep them locked up until papers surface or they die of old age, whichever comes first. For everyone else, there's mass deportations. As for genuine refugees, I don't see any reason to allow them freedom of movement. Lock them in camps as well, until they can go back home / they decide to go to some other country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 11:09:37 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 11:06:25 am

Seed the border with tentacle monsters

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 11:49:32 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

Then going after the human traffickers/boats becomes a political tool, one that will inevitably get caught up in partisanship and the cogs of bureaucracy until nothing is being done.

France rolls around West Africa and Libya without that issue, doubt that'd be much of an issue now either unless the EU wanted to take control or something. Even so, the EU wanting to take control would surely only add a few more years, which yeah would cost Europe more but you're never too late for damage control

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

If I tell people that if they try to break into my house I'll shoot them, and then they try to break into my house and I shoot them - who's at fault? Particularly given how so many of these people are economic migrants rather than genuine refugees.

Well it is their fault but you gotta also factor in the wonderful thing called wishful thinking and ignorance
Imagine someone has told you that for $5,000 they can send you to a paradise where the government gives you FREE MONEY, the girls come easy and the drugs are cheap, they all stay skinny cos they just don't eat, you live like a big rockstar and all it takes is to get to that country where all the euros let you stay forever. Once you embark on that journey you're not likely to give up even after you're disillusioned because otherwise you just wasted all that money lol

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

As far as 'Any means necessary goes', to eliminate ambiguity: sufficient measures would probably be putting armed guards on the borders, and if necessary, lethally shooting anyone who attempts to breach the border - after verbally warning them and firing a warning shot.

All unnecessary imo
If they're already at your border their options for turning back are diminished, much better to intercept them before they make landfall, especially since euros don't like having borders inside their clay. Moreover once they're at your border, I guarantee euros will work to bring them inside even at risk of their own lives, they love that shit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/12195042/Activists-helped-thousands-of-migrants-illegally-cross-the-Greece-Macedonia-border.html), makes for good careers in media
Plus you gotta consider the mental health of the border guards who are having to shoot loads of young lads for a living or face failing their country. Don't want to put them in that position unless shit has absolutely hit the fan, europe isn't undergoing civil war yet so I'd say that's not worth it yet.

Shut down the human trafficking rings, make it clear anyone entering illegally will be repatriated, and actually go about repatriation and deportation - bingo, you've removed the incentive and the ability to get to Free Germoneyland. Then you'll only have to be dealing with those who go by plane with fraudulent visas or all that, which is a much smaller group of people (talking thousands versus millions).

Also really, you gotta factor in the psychology aspect - do young men fear armed guards more than they love pretty women? No, they have never, and they do not fear death when the stakes are that high. It's one of the basest biological instincts right next to survival ones, so euros need to just chuck liberalism everywhere in Africa and Asia, everywhere gender equality and social equality just ~everywhere~. If African and Asian nations undergo their own sexual revolution then the sexual fetishisation of the occidental world will cease.

Also if you want a scary border then armed guards who will kill you is not the scariest image, you need stuff like dog patrols. For some reason dogs scare people more than armed guards, I think it's because you can't really reason with dogs. Also dayum, border fences are not cheap, nor are security guards. Intercepting human traffickers and their vehicles saves a hell of a lot more money than walls; walls by nature of being a fixed defence, will be always overcome by fluid and patient enemies, of which traffickers are very patient. Imagine spending all your money on a Med wall only for traffickers to switch route to Turkey -> Black Sea -> Ukraine -> Yurop

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

You'd only need a few idiots testing you before the rest learn not to. Just make sure the media broadcast it nice and loud, give it twice the reach 'Refugees welcome' ever did. Then when coming over to Europe to get a free flat and welfare isn't an option, perhaps they'll be more invested in unfucking their own countries.

Also the West needs to stop fucking over their countries
Really cheeky for Clinton clones to talk about how we need to accept refugees whilst in the process of destroying their homes. Seems obvious, if you don't destroy their homes, no refugees. Destroying someone else's homes is a dick move, thus Europe must more actively counter Russian and American imperialism, and not suffer the temptation to replace either's hegemony with yuro hegemony

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

The problem being that some parts of the world are so poor that incarceration in a Western prison or whatever would be a step-up. And we'd have to pay for that prison, for their guards, their food, etc. Not that I'm saying we shouldn't incarcerate them, just that it's an imperfect and ultimately costly solution.

Also it's a bad mix. Prisons and militant groups go hand in hand, you don't want to be taking away years of free life from people who really don't deserve it

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 11:14:06 am

One interesting idea I've seen proposed is that for every £/$/Euro spent imprisoning someone in the above situation, or a non-citizen who needs medical care, etc, you deduct that amount from your foreign aid budget.

Nah, taking away foreign aid budget is a silly idea. Foreign aid is the way forward, or rather, foreign development is the way forward and foreign aid maintains the status quo.
Look at it this way, Germany has wasted vast sums of money paying for people wealthy enough to pay off human traffickers, whilst those too poor or actively under brutal regimes are incapable of fleeing - these people need help, help which Germany is incapable of providing. If help is not provided for them, then for all in the country they will have few options except to flee or languish, which will either cost in welfare or border patrol either way. Foreign aid maintains the status quo so people can live, but it's not sustainable and solves little. Foreign development, helping other nations become self-sustaining and powerful national democracies with transparent governments free from corruption is the only way forward (that doesn't involve a militiarized border anyways). It is in my opinion, the smartest way forward; remove every cause for people to be refugees and make the world better

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 11:56:17 am

and where do you plan to deport them? we're not bordering mexico, we can't just drop them back after the border.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 12:04:15 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 11:56:17 am

and where do you plan to deport them? we're not bordering mexico, we can't just drop them back after the border.

Place of origin or port of first call; euro geographical border policing is actually easier than USA/Mexico border. USA/Mexico border does not have an ocean in the way
Literally worse comes worse buying them a plane ticket to subsaharan african is still infinitely cheaper than extra infrastructure, security and welfare costs, or building an israel-tier wall. Eurowall?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 12:06:26 pm

because people don't lie about that, mright?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 12:26:33 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 12:06:26 pm

because people don't lie about that, mright?

If euros get millions of people showing up claiming to be sardinians I reckon the euros are smart enough to see through the ruse

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 12:51:00 pm

also, country of origin won't accept them undocumented, unless you birbe them of course 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 01:21:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 12:26:33 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 12:06:26 pm

because people don't lie about that, mright?

If euros get millions of people showing up claiming to be sardinians I reckon the euros are smart enough to see through the ruse

If they don't have any way to prove what country they came from then neither do the people trying to deport them, and it's not like you can ask the various countries in roughly the right geographic region if person X is from their nation or not without papers. Just dumping them in countries when you can't prove which one they should go to is just shifting the problem to less developed nations at best and akin to dumping them in the middle of the Atlantic at worst.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 01:36:14 pm

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 12:51:00 pm

also, country of origin won't accept them undocumented, unless you birbe them of course

They're legally obliged to accept their own peeps, besides all that foreign development money you can just remarket as bribes and shit instead of humanitarian stuff

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 01:21:48 pm

If they don't have any way to prove what country they came from then neither do the people trying to deport them, and it's not like you can ask the various countries in roughly the right geographic region if person X is from their nation or not without papers. Just dumping them in countries when you can't prove which one they should go to is just shifting the problem to less developed nations at best and akin to dumping them in the middle of the Atlantic at worst.

Hence country of origin or port of first call, ensuring maximum flexibility in deporting illegal migrants; in regards to the latter just dumping them in Germany is shifting the problem from less developed nations to Germany, neither solving it in their home whilst making the problem worse and removing another actor capable of making things better. Thus if German Swede alliance is criticized by their own progresiv they can just point out the obvious; they're not their domestic problem unless they want them to be their domestic problem. As it stands, they do ;D
BB Code test

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Toady One on January 04, 2017, 02:40:21 pm

DJ is out, and others are close.  "Mass racism is the only solution so let's have lynch mobs for economic immigrants" (paraphrase, but his phrases not mine) is not a thread I'm going to support on my forum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 02:44:06 pm

Thanks Toady; I had hoped DJ was being hyperbolic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 03:25:39 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 04, 2017, 02:44:51 pm

Yeah, locking everyone up in camps sounds like a terrible idea. I doubt there's any effective way to remove who already got through, but the least that can be done is remove the means of which they keep coming in (that is, illegal methods such as human smuggling). I think LW's proposal works rather nicely. For those already in? I think the only really useful tool here to handle them is time.

Solving the crisis with the threefold objectives of development, trafficking policing and border control could rather easily solve the migrant crisis there (barring of course such nations like Libya where there isn't really a local police force to cooperate with given the collapse of the state, or nations like Syria where the state is antagonistic). Still, given the Med's control by EU forces, very achievable, and would have the added benefit of constricting the flow of arms from the Balkans to the ME.

As for all the migrants already there, certainly for Germany and Sweden they have to acknowledge that their demographic change is permanent. To that end the first and foremost priority of the Germans and Swedish states is to stop trying to sell it like Newropeans (http://i.imgur.com/xap3Bli.png) or NewSwedes and sell it like it's cultural enrichment and some sort of economic awakening that will make everyone gay for the changes, long enough to buy time for immigrants to become future Germans and Swedes. That will be the biggest challenge, because without some great shared experience that is capable of uniting all the migrant groups together under one civic label, they will continue to kill one another long after the old europeans die, leaving a mess of a state full of people with no historical institutions they can use for protection
Europeans need a strong law court that applys to all and protects all regardless of faith (http://www.thelocal.se/20151016/isis-graffiti-scares-syrians-in-gothenburg)

Regarding ISIS there's not much way to look at their recruitment efforts except as preparation for a second wave pending the collapse of its Syrian/Iraqi territory holdings. Thus there will be decades more conflict in Europe which will only get worse, on that front the EU needs to crack down on guns flowing from the balkans, eastern europe and the ME through the borderless schengen area. Whether ISIS ever grows large enough in Europe to bring war is another question, provided their weapons are restricted I doubt they'd have the material needed to mount effective military operations, but as it stands they cause enough disruption and damage with lorries and machetes. I suppose the only thing you can do is like what these guys are doing:

Quote

Meanwhile Sweden's national coordinator Mona Sahlin waded into the debate on Friday, comparing Isis propaganda in Sweden to Nazi swastikas.
 
"I hope that people can view the IS flag in the same way as the swastika. Then they can also intervene when they see the symbol," she told Swedish public broadcaster Sveriges Radio, describing the Islamist organisation as "the world's most dangerous terrorist group".

Really need to end that weird thing where euros look the other way to ISIS on their doorstep; an institution such as the law is uniquely positioned to deal with all equally and make something civic out of so many different people, but it isn't doing anything and if anything, is retreating. Police will be more valuable than ever to these nations (http://www.thelocal.se/20160506/blue-flight-swedish-cops-quitting-in-droves), and will stop no go zones from setting up parallel courts and crafting rival states of authority within neurope, and the press needs to realize every time it lies it accelerates the growing instability of the west (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/)

Also Europeans need to either learn how to celebrate not in crowds, or else grow numb to the threat of terror attacks. Silly stuff where people are killed in a panicked stampede because someone threw a firecracker does not help, and certainly illustrates how with a few murders one can undermine trust between all of society. Besides, if it was a real attack fleeing in a panic would just make things worse :|

What do you guys think of giving citizenship to all the migrants in Germany? I reckon it brings up an interesting conundrum between Germany's ambitions, on how it wants both European integration and migrant integration. It wants lower migration but cannot impose borders lest it threaten Schengen, it wants to integrate migrants but cannot do so if they're all concentrated in Germany so tries to redistribute them to other nations, but that insults them and causes them to oppose German authority. Granting citizenship to legally awkward asylum seekers who can't be refused for as long as they're seeking asylum but can't legally work as long as they're not refugees and can't be deported until they're illegal immigrants is a great, fucking, mess. Citizenship would help moving towards a civic Germany but would most likely kill Schengen ded since the other Euro nations would not be pleased with Germany still being an open door to their countries - Germany exit EU wen?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 04, 2017, 03:45:03 pm

citizenship brings voting right. million people living on welfare voting according to the whims of the underground mosque network is going to forever tip the scale in the german political landscape.

it's not just working rights, or shengen, albeit if that were to happen I'm gonna guess shengen would die shortly after the first problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 03:51:01 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 03:40:02 pm

Indeed. Much as I'm opposed to taking in these huge numbers of people, I don't support violence unless it's in the prevention of a crime. Or war, I suppose. Charles Martel did nothing wrong.

He created the French, he didn't combine with the byzantines he used gavelkind succession

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 03:40:02 pm

If Germany really wants to bend over and spread those cheeks, let it, but let it leave Schengen and quarantine itself first. This demographic change won't just affect them, or us, it'll affect generations of Europeans to come in very serious ways. We're already seeing it, with - was it the French PM? - that 'We're going to have to just get used to terrorism' shit.

Yeah I find it hilarious but what you gonna do, can't do much except chuckle sensibly from the sideline isles thanking God that are based Nige was born. One thing I can say that is of deep concern is that the Germans have lost their protestant religious authority paranoia; they seem far too comfortable with saudi wahhabi clerics being their religious authority

ayy lmao crumbling civilizations make for awesome buildings tho (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-gulf-states-fund-islamic-extremism-germany-salafism-wahhabism-qatar-kuwait-islamists-a7473551.html)
If you ask me it's a historical inevitability that Islam will rise to prominence in Germany; what Germany can do is affect what this rise will look like. Will it be liberal ottoman ecumenical humanism toleran stuff or will it be super salafi salami slicer

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 04:09:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 03:25:39 pm

As for all the migrants already there, certainly for Germany and Sweden they have to acknowledge that their demographic change is permanent. To that end the first and foremost priority of the Germans and Swedish states is to stop trying to sell it like Newropeans (http://i.imgur.com/xap3Bli.png) or NewSwedes and sell it like it's cultural enrichment and some sort of economic awakening that will make everyone gay for the changes, long enough to buy time for immigrants to become future Germans and Swedes. That will be the biggest challenge, because without some great shared experience that is capable of uniting all the migrant groups together under one civic label, they will continue to kill one another long after the old europeans die, leaving a mess of a state full of people with no historical institutions they can use for protection
Europeans need a strong law court that applys to all and protects all regardless of faith (http://www.thelocal.se/20151016/isis-graffiti-scares-syrians-in-gothenburg)

(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Islam+is+a+religion+of+peas_02dfdc_5464038.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 04:15:08 pm

Prob beheaded a few people by now and got some underage concubines, all the in the name of progressiveness of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 04:21:25 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/8kr3txk.png)

The unholy fusion of spiritual discipline with smug

Tfw you are now thinking about how many thousand jihadis have western passports

Quote

“You find that a lot of the converts going to the Islamic State are girls, girls with problems, girls who have been prostitutes, girls with psychological and behavioral issues, sometimes borderline personalities,” said Marion van San, a senior researcher on foreign fighters at an institute affiliated with Erasmus University in Rotterdam. “Then someone comes along and promises that Allah is going to give them a second chance.”
Converts, experts say, also make easier targets. At least some tend to be lost souls searching for answers. For a minority of them, the radical ideology of the Islamic State is providing a heady sense of belonging, structure and a clear set of rules.

The spiritual void that is the West cannot die, because it already killed itself (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/from-hip-hop-to-jihad-how-the-islamic-state-became-a-magnet-for-converts/2015/05/06/b1358758-d23f-11e4-8b1e-274d670aa9c9_story.html?utm_term=.4ff23ee38da8)
Hahaha reminds me of the joke, eurojihadis don't know what they're running into when they fly to Syria, but they do know what they're running away from; when children lack structure, they make their own. Western nations have very broad, inclusive and minimal obligations to belong, but in doing so they make what makes one belong shallow and meaningless. Thus you get all these western kiddies seeking the most authoritative, the strongest and most extreme structures to control their lives - when individuals lack individual strength to control their lives, they pray to God for strength. When individuals lack a purpose in life, they pray to God for answers. When individuals lack any clergy to guide their studies, they are vulnerable to the most apocalyptic of sects

History goes in cycles, civilizations unite, civilizations collapse, and it all goes on and on. An exciting future is ahead!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 04:44:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 04:21:25 pm

<snip>

(https://atlanticcenturion.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/strong-horse.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 04:46:52 pm

So is one conclusion you could draw here that Western Europe embraced individualism too strongly, at the expense of community, LW?

I will admit to my agenda of trying to look at culture conflicts in the light of individualism vs. communalism. Too much of either and you get problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 04:57:05 pm

I just hope all of our knowledge doesn't go with us when civilization collapses and enters a new dark age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 04, 2017, 05:05:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 04:57:05 pm

I just hope all of our knowledge doesn't go with us when civilization collapses and enters a new dark age.

China, Russia, South Korea, Singapore, there are plenty of authoritarian technological states to pick up the slack of carrying the knowledge forward for Europe and USA if they were even to fuck it up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 05:15:00 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 04:46:52 pm

So is one conclusion you could draw here that Western Europe embraced individualism too strongly, at the expense of community, LW?

I will admit to my agenda of trying to look at culture conflicts in the light of individualism vs. communalism. Too much of either and you get problems.

I would attribute it more to the ability for the disillusioned to be exposed to far more ideologies than before.

60 years ago someone who was dissatisfied with society either joined a local street gang, joined a fringe political group or ran off to some far away place on the basis of things they only dimly knew of, now they can find out about all sorts of things in great detail and speak to holders of extremist beliefs from the comfort of their own home.

The root problem is people becoming dissatisfied with society, which I would generally attribute to how little things have actually changed for a lot of people in the past few decades. Wages fail to keep up with inflation, unemployment among the youth goes up, the security net people have been relying on starts to fray, vital services don't get proper investment, vast chunks of the population are basically left to rot because there's no profit to be made from them, so on and so forth. In the past this sort of thing has driven people of every social class, even ones not directly affected by economic strife, to either fascism or socialism, and things like IS are basically just another flavour of fascism, just one rooted in Islamic conservative rhetoric rather than Christian conservative rhetoric (thought the two are similar anyway) like most fascist movements in the west have been.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:24:39 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 05:15:00 pm

The root problem is people becoming dissatisfied with society, which I would generally attribute to how little things have actually changed for a lot of people in the past few decades. Wages fail to keep up with inflation, unemployment among the youth goes up, the security net people have been relying on starts to fray, vital services don't get proper investment, vast chunks of the population are basically left to rot because there's no profit to be made from them, so on and so forth. In the past this sort of thing has driven people of every social class, even ones not directly affected by economic strife, to either fascism or socialism, and things like IS are basically just another flavour of fascism, just one rooted in Islamic conservative rhetoric rather than Christian conservative rhetoric (thought the two are similar anyway) like most fascist movements in the west have been.

I'd say the opposite, personally. Things have changed too much but progressivism (which I prefer to call changism) has managed to make it so that everyone is worse off than they were before.

Your average working man can no longer earn enough money to support two people, so his partner has to work too. If they have children then their wages stretch even thinner. Every day they come home exhausted and have to look after their children. Every day, their children have no real parenting given to them because both parents are exhausted. The house is dirty and disorganised, the children are neglected and the family is a just a grouping of people who live in the household.

But, no, the old days were the problem where one person in the household had to work and the other could cook, clean, buy groceries and generally deal with the running of the household. It was especially awful that kids were able to have a primary caregiver instead of having to have two people they barely saw.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:30:28 pm

I really doubt the blame lies entirely on failure to parent properly. Yes, there are going to be some families who are dysfunctional, but theres no way to blame parenting for the whole problems.

Theres so many other factors in there besides parenting, just blaming it on parenting requires ignoring every other factor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:32:15 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:30:28 pm

I really doubt the blame lies entirely on failure to parent properly. Yes, there are going to be some families who are dysfunctional, but theres no way to blame parenting for the whole problems.

Theres so many other factors in there besides parenting, just blaming it on parenting requires ignoring every other factor.

I'm not blaming the parents. I'm blaming society for forcing two person working class households. Working class wages are (deliberately) not kept up with inflation too since the government imports migrants any time there's too little unemployment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:41:44 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:32:15 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:30:28 pm

I really doubt the blame lies entirely on failure to parent properly. Yes, there are going to be some families who are dysfunctional, but theres no way to blame parenting for the whole problems.

Theres so many other factors in there besides parenting, just blaming it on parenting requires ignoring every other factor.

I'm not blaming the parents. I'm blaming society for forcing two person working class households. Working class wages are (deliberately) not kept up with inflation too since the government imports migrants any time there's too little unemployment.

I have no idea whether working class wages were deliberately not kept up with inflation or were just simply ignored, or progressives or whoever thought wages would just keep up on their own.

There's two sides of the coin to the two person working class households thing, the first is that more women entered the workforce (for a variety of reasons, including the feminism movement, but that's not what we're discussing) due to more opportunities, and having women enter the workforce is actually a good thing. The second is that low wages are certainly a factor, but not the only factor.

And third, no, society didn't 'force' women into the workforce, thus society didn't force two working parent households.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:48:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:41:44 pm

I have no idea whether working class wages were deliberately not kept up with inflation or were just simply ignored, or progressives or whoever thought wages would just keep up on their own.

There's two sides of the coin to the two person working class households thing, the first is that more women entered the workforce (for a variety of reasons, including the feminism movement, but that's not what we're discussing) due to more opportunities, and having women enter the workforce is actually a good thing. The second is that low wages are certainly a factor, but not the only factor.

And third, no, society didn't 'force' women into the workforce, thus society didn't force two working parent households.

You double the workforce, you double the amount of people able to do jobs without having double the jobs to do, you halve the wage. It's really simple economics. Supply vs demand.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 05:55:46 pm

Me thinks the problem is far from being an economic issue alone. Look at the main course for today's islamization issue, sweden. Sweden had and still has one of the highest standards of living and succesful welfare states of the recent years, with high wages and government programs that helped people with education, housing, healthcare, etc, and yet it has HUGE youth suicide rates. And as much as people might cry about it, sweden is the last place on europe were you'd find a society dominated by "conservative christian rethoric". In fact, if there was such a thing in sweden, then it wouldn't be in the fucking swamp its currently sinking in, at least not in regards to illegal immigrants and islam taking their children away.

People threw away their sense of responsibility with society and cultural identity. They emptied themselves and their children expecting this to open the doors to ultimate freedom, and instead it only made them empty and lonely. They've surrounded themselves with bland, safe, placid lives of no expectations and few responsibilities. They threw their religion away because they though it restricted them rather than make them question themselves, they threw their culture away because they were too lazy to learn about it, they threw their family away because it made them unconfortable at times, so when someone with a strong message, regardless of how insane it is, comes and opens their doors to these people, said people grab onto it, because it gives them something they didn't have in their confort zones: a sense of purpose. Whats worse, society has arranged a system that prevents people from speaking out against said strong message, because its racist and islamophobic to do so, even if clerics go around in the streets telling people what they should and shouldn't do and advocate violence to nonbelievers.

In being too tolerant, people have become tolerant of intolerance.

Families today are feeble arrangements of people who demand love from one another without demanding respect first, where parents are distant because they have to both work and leave their children at school and at home because they are too exhausted to do anything about it when they're not working. That is, if people even have more than one child because this is europe we're talking about, lel.

Thats how your swedish dudeweed bisexual neighbor who faps to /d/ becomes al swedi the decapitator.

Sure, your circle of internet friends may make fun of your catholic neighbor and his housewive wife, who goes to mass, waves a flag during national holidays and ocasionaly hunts and eats a deer or two, but when push comes to shove, its him who's gonna be keeping his family safe and not taking underage concubines and shooting his brothers in the head because hassan the machete jihadist told him to do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 06:00:36 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:24:39 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 05:15:00 pm

The root problem is people becoming dissatisfied with society, which I would generally attribute to how little things have actually changed for a lot of people in the past few decades. Wages fail to keep up with inflation, unemployment among the youth goes up, the security net people have been relying on starts to fray, vital services don't get proper investment, vast chunks of the population are basically left to rot because there's no profit to be made from them, so on and so forth. In the past this sort of thing has driven people of every social class, even ones not directly affected by economic strife, to either fascism or socialism, and things like IS are basically just another flavour of fascism, just one rooted in Islamic conservative rhetoric rather than Christian conservative rhetoric (thought the two are similar anyway) like most fascist movements in the west have been.

I'd say the opposite, personally. Things have changed too much but progressivism (which I prefer to call changism) has managed to make it so that everyone is worse off than they were before.

Your average working man can no longer earn enough money to support two people, so his partner has to work too. If they have children then their wages stretch even thinner. Every day they come home exhausted and have to look after their children. Every day, their children have no real parenting given to them because both parents are exhausted. The house is dirty and disorganised, the children are neglected and the family is a just a grouping of people who live in the household.

But, no, the old days were the problem where one person in the household had to work and the other could cook, clean, buy groceries and generally deal with the running of the household. It was especially awful that kids were able to have a primary caregiver instead of having to have two people they barely saw.

That actually seems more like the problem of progressive policies being appropriated by the financial elite. Things like the reduction of religion in politics, gay rights, women's equality, race rights and the like were closely tied with pro-working class movements that wanted to redistribute wealth and extend social safety nets.

From my reading on the subject there's a very big difference between the 'left wing' of the late 80s, 90s and 2000s and the left wing from before it. The former essentially abandoned the idea of state owned services that would ensure the provision of basic needs to everyone in favour of privatisation and market economics. Good example would be Tony Blair's New Labour in Britain, which was in favour of slowly privatising important public services and contributed to the erosion and outsourcing of aspects of the NHS rather than expanding on and improving it while maintaining total state control over the institution.

Men and women gaining equal opportunities and protections is an actively good thing, the problem is that it's been used by governments and corporations as an excuse to exploit people on the basis that with twice as many people being able to work equally everyone should be expected to work rather than assuming that it should just make the choice of who works more flexible. A proper requirement for income to reflect inflation and proper controls on how rapidly cost of living can rise would have allowed families to continue having one parent work and one stay at home but allowed for it to be either parent depending on what suited them best, while also making more room for non-heterosexual family units in society since a Lesbian couple would not be financially disadvantaged compared to a relationship that includes a man once proper equal pay protection were in place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 04, 2017, 06:01:58 pm

The continual decline of wages has more to do with decreasing margins of production and the monopoly of land ownership than it does with the gross supply of labor or pressures of population (though you are right about a "progressive" society depressing wages in the sense of technological innovation). As society grows more efficient and productive (and a greater portion of economic activity is done in large cities with extremely high land values), the gain in the value of goods and services produced does not translate into higher wages; it actually has the opposite effect, as increasingly marginal land is exploited and labor grows increasingly dependent on land and capital. Almost all of the newly created wealth is swallowed up by rent, either directly or indirectly, while labor (and to a lesser extent capital) experiences a decrease in the portion earned.

It's often said that medieval serfs and peasants had a higher share of wealth than modern workers, and this is technically true (hundreds or thousands times more in fact). But as long as the gross amount of wealth continues to grow and prices fall, modern workers do still benefit from material progress (though the lowest can only really be kept above starvation level by government intervention and collective bargaining since we seem incapable of the necessary lasting reforms).

Anyway, the main point is that labor is not just "supply and demand." In fact, in a perfect society, supply and demand should not even operate with respect to labor. The scarcities in employment that force competition for work and the vast amounts of wasted talent and ability left idle are due to other factors than the supply of labor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on January 04, 2017, 06:06:45 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 04:44:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 04:21:25 pm

<snip>

(https://atlanticcenturion.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/strong-horse.jpg)

Spoiler: Strong horse, you say? (click to show/hide)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CADaCZMZrOI/VXYNrHmVX8I/AAAAAAAAGjk/vJpmRWPk2rE/s1600/miroslaw%2Bszeib%2Bcharge%2B1.png)(https://wordwarriorsandiego.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/husaria.jpg)(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/9/98/Winged_hussar_(Civ5)_art.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130315224650)(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1aWLuLpXXXXa8XXXXq6xXFXXXq/Mount-Blade-With-Fire-and-Sword-font-b-Winged-b-font-font-b-hussar-b-font.jpg)(https://deadliestblogpage.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/lg_wingedhussars.jpg)(http://img.jbzd.pl/2014/12/66bcfc044bfc76b7219aa34c26f85302.jpg)

Turk simply stands no chance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU6IbeFIaB0)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 06:16:06 pm

Quote from: Kot on January 04, 2017, 06:06:45 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 04:44:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2017, 04:21:25 pm

<snip>

(https://atlanticcenturion.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/strong-horse.jpg)

Spoiler: Strong horse, you say? (click to show/hide)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CADaCZMZrOI/VXYNrHmVX8I/AAAAAAAAGjk/vJpmRWPk2rE/s1600/miroslaw%2Bszeib%2Bcharge%2B1.png)(https://wordwarriorsandiego.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/husaria.jpg)(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/9/98/Winged_hussar_(Civ5)_art.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130315224650)(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1aWLuLpXXXXa8XXXXq6xXFXXXq/Mount-Blade-With-Fire-and-Sword-font-b-Winged-b-font-font-b-hussar-b-font.jpg)(https://deadliestblogpage.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/lg_wingedhussars.jpg)(http://img.jbzd.pl/2014/12/66bcfc044bfc76b7219aa34c26f85302.jpg)

Turk simply stands no chance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU6IbeFIaB0)

I believe in the polan spirit.
We will march together (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvyl4uVLWFo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 04, 2017, 06:34:51 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 06:11:04 pm

TempAcc: A nice summary. Everyone was in such a rush to shit on their own culture and past for its flaws, without realising that there was a hell of a lot more value there then they'd ever realised.

All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down - not realising that those things were a bulwark against much more serious threats.

Grim: 'Appropriated by the financial elite' is a good way to put it. The old left fought for the working class. The new left fights for its paymasters, while distracting everyone with guff about transgender bathrooms or 'mansplaining'.

I'd more argue that at some point the left disintegrated into a bunch of factions each with their own issue that as far as they're concerned is the most important thing in the world, many of whom are directly opposed to each other and largely sharing few values other than "Is not right-wing or centrist(the modern-day dirty word in politics)".
I personally think the reason the left is weak these days is because it isn't about strength in unity any more, but rather about individualism and self-expression. These are lovely ideals but they sure as hell dont make for a united political front.

---
E:  "All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down"
The newest generation always rejects the stability of its forefathers for adventurism in some degree (see: Islamic kids from well-adjusted families declaring jihad, renouncing their parents and adopted culture and fleeing to Syria). Also internet tumblrites didn't tear down tradition and the church, since they didn't arrive for 30-40 years afterwards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 06:45:45 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 04, 2017, 05:48:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 05:41:44 pm

I have no idea whether working class wages were deliberately not kept up with inflation or were just simply ignored, or progressives or whoever thought wages would just keep up on their own.

There's two sides of the coin to the two person working class households thing, the first is that more women entered the workforce (for a variety of reasons, including the feminism movement, but that's not what we're discussing) due to more opportunities, and having women enter the workforce is actually a good thing. The second is that low wages are certainly a factor, but not the only factor.

And third, no, society didn't 'force' women into the workforce, thus society didn't force two working parent households.

You double the workforce, you double the amount of people able to do jobs without having double the jobs to do, you halve the wage. It's really simple economics. Supply vs demand.

That is simple economics, but economics isn't simple.

You halve the wage, you reduce the cost of labor. When labor costs are reduced, costs of running a business are reduced, meaning more people can start them. Which means more jobs. It's obviously going to reduce the wage, but doubling number of people in workforce is not a direct line to halving the wage, particularly when it doesn't happen all at once.

Two-income trap still suuuuucks though. Less flexibility, more stress, same purchasing power worth of wealth.

Hell, (salaried) people are working 50 or 60 hour work weeks now because employers seem to have forgotten the productivity & efficiency benefits of having well-rested, happy employees, who have the energy to do their jobs right the first time.

As for the culture&whatnot: People forgot that though the scaffolding restricts, it also supports. The goal is to have a society free enough to enable people to strike out on their own and pursue their passions if they have the drive and desire, but structured enough that you don't leave the people who want or need more structure out in the cold. I do well with routines. I need a bit of structure in my life. I know for a fact that doesn't make me stupid, but people maybe don't realize that what works for some people doesn't work for others. People who do well with the freedom of an individualist culture are often stifled under more structured, restrictive cultures, and people who function well with structure to support and build off of are left foundationless in more chaotic environs.

@Covenant: Unfortunately, the right doesn't seem much better at the moment. :/ I remember a study (and things like this are notoriously unreliable, mind) where they found that the right (in America, at least, which is all I can really use as the basis for Europe, though it's obviously farther right) serves the interests of the 99th-100th percentiles of wealth, while the left serves the interests of the 95th to 100th percentiles.

Though it frustrates me to no end that somehow innovation and efficiency leave more people worse off. It's not how that's supposed to work. You get fewer people required for specific types of labor, and it should enable more people to create value/wealth through other means, resulting in more prosperity overall. When you hit the cap on methods of value production, then you enable people to do art and the like that allows everyone more enjoyment and quality of life. It's not supposed to be a concentration in the hands of the few who honestly don't need that much money to live extraordinarily nicely. Million dollars per year is plenty, more than that and it's just being wasteful. >.<

Or excess wealth goes to helping deal with disease or develop other nations (once we can trade we'll get a ROI anyway, if you lack the innate desire to help others because it's the right thing to do) or funding research or a hundred other things it could be spent on that would be better.

Goddamn I wish research was better funded

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 04, 2017, 06:34:51 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 06:11:04 pm

TempAcc: A nice summary. Everyone was in such a rush to shit on their own culture and past for its flaws, without realising that there was a hell of a lot more value there then they'd ever realised.

All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down - not realising that those things were a bulwark against much more serious threats.

Grim: 'Appropriated by the financial elite' is a good way to put it. The old left fought for the working class. The new left fights for its paymasters, while distracting everyone with guff about transgender bathrooms or 'mansplaining'.

I'd more argue that at some point the left disintegrated into a bunch of factions each with their own issue that as far as they're concerned is the most important thing in the world, many of whom are directly opposed to each other and largely sharing few values other than "Is not right-wing or centrist(the modern-day dirty word in politics)".
I personally think the reason the left is weak these days is because it isn't about strength in unity any more, but rather about individualism and self-expression. These are lovely ideals but they sure as hell dont make for a united political front.

The left has always been about individualism. It is the alliance of rebels, at heart, and always has been. When the rebels begin to win, the overriding survival need that drove them to band together becomes weaker. Rebel groups often splinter after they win. After all, by their nature they were the people more likely to push back against authority. That doesn't end just because they won. That's why rebellions often have such brutal methods of suppression immediately after, and why cancer often has distinct stages. If it gets too big and doesn't have the right support network built inside itself, it'll starve, so it has to wait until one of it's cells develops the right mutation and survives to take over and have that become the predominant genome type within the cancer.

United front is what's used up until that point, and then they realize the differences between themselves, and begin to squabble about the proper next steps.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 04, 2017, 07:04:01 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 06:45:45 pm

The left has always been about individualism.

I'm pretty sure it used to be for worker's rights and redistribution of wealth via collective action like unionisation and going on strikes. Though modern mainstream left seems to be more about "fuck the workers, those uneducated idiots, we're the elite professionals who are better than you".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 07:18:49 pm

Individualism is about equality, at it's heart. It is is rooted in the belief that no individual is better than another, and the belief in individual liberty that almost necessarily follows from that; that everyone should be as free to do as they wish as possible. It believes in change over stagnation and in the power of the individual. That does not mean it does not believe in collective action. Just because it's called individualism does not mean it only believes in solitary action. Partially because solitary action often fails. Slavery, including wage slavery, is opposed in every way to individualism, as all forms of oppression are.

Elitism in the left is rooted in the belief that if people were educated they'd agree, and since being right (and everyone thinks they're right, or they wouldn't think it) is better than being wrong, that if people are uneducated, they're the enemy. It's not just ideology, it's also tribalism. And with the vilification of anyone not on one's own side...well, let's just say there might be some cognitive dissidence in the movement as a whole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 07:21:31 pm

Worse, the modern mainstream left isn't even about individualism, its about an elite class of leftists that declares themselves as ultimate bearers or all virtues telling all others how things should be, and anyone who disagrees with them is obviously a racist extreme right wing conspiracy theorist.

Hell, if the left was about actual liberalism anymore, I'd be more than happy. That got thrown away a while ago in favor of leftist populism, massively controlling state models and leader figure worship, I'm afraid. Except the left can't do the whole revolution thing anymore since the average leftist nowadays gets PTSD from touching a firearm, so everything is done through social networking and crying a whole lot, instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 07:28:51 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 07:21:31 pm

Worse, the modern mainstream left isn't even about individualism, its about an elite class of leftists that declares themselves as ultimate bearers or all virtues telling all others how things should be, and anyone who disagrees with them is obviously a racist extreme right wing conspiracy theorist.

Hell, if the left was about actual liberalism anymore, I'd be more than happy. That got thrown away a while ago in favor of leftist populism, massively controlling state models and leader figure worship, I'm afraid.

Dunno if I agree with you, there. It's certainly nowhere near as much about classical liberalism anymore, but the rest seems only partially accurate to me. Populism is inevitable to some degree in democracy, leader figure worship is a symptom of tribalism ("OUR GUYS ARE GREAT AND NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG AND YOURS ARE ALL TERRIBLE") and I don't think it's quite that level anyway, and not sure how much the state model thing applies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 07:35:05 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 04, 2017, 07:04:01 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 06:45:45 pm

The left has always been about individualism.

I'm pretty sure it used to be for worker's rights and redistribution of wealth via collective action like unionisation and going on strikes. Though modern mainstream left seems to be more about "fuck the workers, those uneducated idiots, we're the elite professionals who are better than you".

Depends on what you define as the left wing of politics.

Economically the left has always been composed of things ranging from socialists through to communists. Basic idea is in favour of spreading wealth out more and providing for the poor. This bit got abandoned by a lot of parties in the 90s in favour of free market-ish ideals, which are more right/center-right in nature.

Socially the left has tended to be liberal and anti-abrahamic religion, in favour of helping the groups who were made outcasts by the political and cultural establishment. This bit got kept by most of the parties that shifted to right wing economics.

What we used to have was economically left wing parties that were also socially liberal contrasted against economically right wing parties that were socially conservative.

Now what we have is economically right wing parties that are socially liberal contrasted against economically right wing parties that are also socially conservative.

Using the UK as an example there has arguably not been a major party that could really be called left wing for the better part of 20 years. The Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats were all economically conservative in most ways, believing in market economics and the gradual decrease in public services, though the latter two were liberal on most social issues.

The main socialist party for a long time in the UK was the Green Party of England and Wales, who are not exactly popular at the best of times. Now Corybn's Labour is trapped in some horrid limbo between New Labour as conceived by Blair (and inspired by Thatcher of all people,) and old style socialist Labour. Then there's the SNP which subscribes to social democrat principles but which has very little freedom to exercise them and only runs in one part of the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 07:35:19 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 04, 2017, 07:04:01 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 06:45:45 pm

The left has always been about individualism.

I'm pretty sure it used to be for worker's rights and redistribution of wealth via collective action like unionisation and going on strikes. Though modern mainstream left seems to be more about "fuck the workers, those uneducated idiots, we're the elite professionals who are better than you".

They WERE for workers rights in the past, as were some Republicans (notably, Teddy Roosevelt), but both parties have drifted away from that, the Rightwing is more like grumpily saying "I'm gonna sit in this mud and I'll LIKE IT!" and the Leftwing have more like "I'm in the Ivory Tower! Um, why are you getting smaller?". Really though, I don't know the full history of how both parties have mostly abandoned the working class in different ways.

@Grim Portent: I really wouldn't say that the Left in the US is anti-religion, more like separating church from the state. The Right likes to claim that the Left is anti-religion, when I really don't see it as that way. Also, we have to remember that the perspective on left vs right is going to depend on which side of the Atlantic you are on, the Left wing in the US is actually right of the European counterparts, more like centrist to Europe I think, not sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 07:44:47 pm

The left nowadays is anti-religion, but only when its convenient to be so. See how buddhism and other eastern religions became popular in the west after the 60s. Hell, the left gave birth to some religious, one could argue that american unitarianism was born out of the religious left.

However, the left in the west in general has kind of always been anti roman catholic, and more recently anti protestant christianity. Any shade of christianity that doesnt sit on the agnostic fence is kind of a no no to the left nowadays. Islam became accepted because it was seen as a good way to draw in lots of new people who weren't very fond of the western right or Israel (still very christian at its core, but much less so than before) to the voterbase, and in europe, as a way to remedy native europeans' notorious ineptitude at breeding more young workers, in order to avoid becoming japan 2.0 .

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 07:55:00 pm

I wouldn't say the low birth rate is inepitude, just the consequence of being lifted out of poverty and being an industrialized society, and the fact that not all nations are at equal level.

Theres likely some cultural factors too, but the same trend has been seen accross all cultures.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 08:01:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 07:35:19 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 04, 2017, 07:04:01 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 04, 2017, 06:45:45 pm

The left has always been about individualism.

I'm pretty sure it used to be for worker's rights and redistribution of wealth via collective action like unionisation and going on strikes. Though modern mainstream left seems to be more about "fuck the workers, those uneducated idiots, we're the elite professionals who are better than you".

They WERE for workers rights in the past, as were some Republicans (notably, Teddy Roosevelt), but both parties have drifted away from that, the Rightwing is more like grumpily saying "I'm gonna sit in this mud and I'll LIKE IT!" and the Leftwing have more like "I'm in the Ivory Tower! Um, why are you getting smaller?"

@Grim Portent: I really wouldn't say that the Left in the US is anti-religion, more like separating church from the state. The Right likes to claim that the Left is anti-religion, when I really don't see it as that way. Also, we have to remember that the perspective on left vs right is going to depend on which side of the Atlantic you are on, the Left wing in the US is actually right of the European counterparts, more like centrist to Europe I think, not sure.

Anti-abrahamic religion (to a lesser extent religion in general) was part of the older left, and was never a big thing in the US.

It ties into a general trend in Europe for churches to be integrated or closely tied to the established political parties a lot of the original left wing movements struggled against. To keep using the UK as an example there were (and still are) actual Bishops of what was the de-facto state religion in the House of Lords and the clergy were generally inclined towards the conservative party during the initial socialist movements in the UK in the late 1800s and early 1900s. A more extreme example would be the Soviet Union which actively suppressed churches, or for a more recent one the classic metal and rock culture of Europe (60s through 80s roughly speaking) was slanted towards Atheism (the US version was pro-Eastern philosophy as I understand it) and had it's roots in various sub groups of the working classes.

Quote from: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 07:44:47 pm

The left nowadays is anti-religion, but only when its convenient to be so. See how buddhism and other eastern religions became popular in the west after the 60s. Hell, the left gave birth to some religious, one could argue that american unitarianism was born out of the religious left.

However, the left in the west in general has kind of always been anti roman catholic, and more recently anti protestant christianity. Any shade of christianity that doesnt sit on the agnostic fence is kind of a no no to the left nowadays. Islam became accepted because it was seen as a good way to draw in lots of new people who weren't very fond of the western right (still very christian at its core, but much less so than before) to the voterbase, and in europe, as a way to remedy native europeans' notorious ineptitude at breeding more young workers, in order to avoid becoming japan 2.0 .

I suspect the attempt to include Islam into the modern 'left wing' fold is more likely a result of the decline in the lefts old tendency towards Atheism, bleed over from the philosophical mysticism of the US left in the 60s and 70s making them experiment with non-Christian faiths, the shift from workers rights to outgroup rights in general and people forgetting that the natural opponents of the left were generally religious hardliners of every faith rather than just the Christian ones, just depending on where you were in the world.

It's notable to me that the American left in the 60s was very into Eastern philosophies while the socialist movement in China actively crushed them as an opponent of their political agenda.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on January 04, 2017, 08:27:06 pm

I'd personally argue that the inclusion of Islam into the left was, in the United States at least, was a part of the pushback against the backlash against Muslims in the wake of 9/11. Before that, they tended much more towards the right, and usually went pretty reliably for the Republicans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 08:36:12 pm

Yeah, there's actually plenty of immigrants who would normally be right leaning, or conservative, if you will, it's just that the Right chose to alienate them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 08:43:27 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on January 04, 2017, 08:27:06 pm

I'd personally argue that the inclusion of Islam into the left was, in the United States at least, was a part of the pushback against the backlash against Muslims in the wake of 9/11. Before that, they tended much more towards the right, and usually went pretty reliably for the Republicans.

That would make sense. Similar to how Latinos in America are pushed away from the Republicans by anti-immigrant rhetoric despite very frequently being socially conservative Catholics. Pre 9/11 I imagine there wasn't a lot of anti-Islam language getting thrown around.

A quick flick through some statistics inclines me to think Muslims in the UK have trended towards Labour, but I can't find a good break down on the numbers going into the past. Seems like the only non-Christians who tend towards Conservatives in the UK are Jews though, which is hardly surprising given that they tend to be socially conservative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 04, 2017, 09:02:41 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 04, 2017, 06:34:51 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 04, 2017, 06:11:04 pm

TempAcc: A nice summary. Everyone was in such a rush to shit on their own culture and past for its flaws, without realising that there was a hell of a lot more value there then they'd ever realised.

All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down - not realising that those things were a bulwark against much more serious threats.

Grim: 'Appropriated by the financial elite' is a good way to put it. The old left fought for the working class. The new left fights for its paymasters, while distracting everyone with guff about transgender bathrooms or 'mansplaining'.

I'd more argue that at some point the left disintegrated into a bunch of factions each with their own issue that as far as they're concerned is the most important thing in the world, many of whom are directly opposed to each other and largely sharing few values other than "Is not right-wing or centrist(the modern-day dirty word in politics)".
I personally think the reason the left is weak these days is because it isn't about strength in unity any more, but rather about individualism and self-expression. These are lovely ideals but they sure as hell dont make for a united political front.

---
E:  "All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down"
The newest generation always rejects the stability of its forefathers for adventurism in some degree (see: Islamic kids from well-adjusted families declaring jihad, renouncing their parents and adopted culture and fleeing to Syria). Also internet tumblrites didn't tear down tradition and the church, since they didn't arrive for 30-40 years afterwards.

I'd say the left was thwarted by anti-communism, COINTELPRO, deathsquads, an all that. People confused Soviet Communism with communism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 12:56:52 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 08:43:27 pm

A quick flick through some statistics inclines me to think Muslims in the UK have trended towards Labour, but I can't find a good break down on the numbers going into the past. Seems like the only non-Christians who tend towards Conservatives in the UK are Jews though, which is hardly surprising given that they tend to be socially conservative.

Source?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 05, 2017, 02:11:47 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 05:55:46 pm

Me thinks the problem is far from being an economic issue alone. Look at the main course for today's islamization issue, sweden. Sweden had and still has one of the highest standards of living and succesful welfare states of the recent years, with high wages and government programs that helped people with education, housing, healthcare, etc, and yet it has HUGE youth suicide rates. And as much as people might cry about it, sweden is the last place on europe were you'd find a society dominated by "conservative christian rethoric". In fact, if there was such a thing in sweden, then it wouldn't be in the fucking swamp its currently sinking in, at least not in regards to illegal immigrants and islam taking their children away.

People threw away their sense of responsibility with society and cultural identity. They emptied themselves and their children expecting this to open the doors to ultimate freedom, and instead it only made them empty and lonely. They've surrounded themselves with bland, safe, placid lives of no expectations and few responsibilities. They threw their religion away because they though it restricted them rather than make them question themselves, they threw their culture away because they were too lazy to learn about it, they threw their family away because it made them unconfortable at times, so when someone with a strong message, regardless of how insane it is, comes and opens their doors to these people, said people grab onto it, because it gives them something they didn't have in their confort zones: a sense of purpose. Whats worse, society has arranged a system that prevents people from speaking out against said strong message, because its racist and islamophobic to do so, even if clerics go around in the streets telling people what they should and shouldn't do and advocate violence to nonbelievers.

In being too tolerant, people have become tolerant of intolerance.

Families today are feeble arrangements of people who demand love from one another without demanding respect first, where parents are distant because they have to both work and leave their children at school and at home because they are too exhausted to do anything about it when they're not working. That is, if people even have more than one child because this is europe we're talking about, lel.

Thats how your swedish dudeweed bisexual neighbor who faps to /d/ becomes al swedi the decapitator.

Sure, your circle of internet friends may make fun of your catholic neighbor and his housewive wife, who goes to mass, waves a flag during national holidays and ocasionaly hunts and eats a deer or two, but when push comes to shove, its him who's gonna be keeping his family safe and not taking underage concubines and shooting his brothers in the head because hassan the machete jihadist told him to do so.

You don't seem to know as much about Swedish history and the development of societal culture as you think you do. You probably shouldn't speak with such certainty when all it does is reveal your own misunderstandings and misgivings about both past and present


[author=Covenant link=topic=155469.msg7315744#msg7315744 date=1483571464]
TempAcc: A nice summary. Everyone was in such a rush to shit on their own culture and past for its flaws, without realising that there was a hell of a lot more value there then they'd ever realised.

All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down - not realising that those things were a bulwark against much more serious threats.

Grim: 'Appropriated by the financial elite' is a good way to put it. The old left fought for the working class. The new left fights for its paymasters, while distracting everyone with guff about transgender bathrooms or 'mansplaining'.[/quote]

Are you saying that the tumbler opinionist crowd have access to time travel technology? Or, if not, how else are you proposing they'd able to cause effects before they even existed?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 02:52:33 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 06:00:36 pm

That actually seems more like the problem of progressive policies being appropriated by the financial elite. Things like the reduction of religion in politics, gay rights, women's equality, race rights and the like were closely tied with pro-working class movements that wanted to redistribute wealth and extend social safety nets.

That's not hoe the world works.

You can't have the results of your actions be something you don't like and weren't expecting and then say, "Oh, well, it's not OUR fault. It's someone else's fault." It's like when people donate to charities for Africa and then it ends up causing more misery by propping up a dictatorship. You're NOT allowed to say it was someone else's fault since it was YOUR action that caused the problem.

Religion in politics has just resulted in a society that has Christian values without any of the religious fervour to help it and the inability to argue theology. Now you need to argue against people's base values and mindset without being able to target anything to them. We live in a secular Christian society and that's even worse than living in a religious Christian one.

Also, progressivism isn't responsible for technology. Unless you're saying the Victorians were progressive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 05, 2017, 03:00:59 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 04, 2017, 07:55:00 pm

I wouldn't say the low birth rate is inepitude, just the consequence of being lifted out of poverty and being an industrialized society, and the fact that not all nations are at equal level.

Theres likely some cultural factors too, but the same trend has been seen accross all cultures.

Am young adult in Italy so can comment: there's no economic stability, there's a great deal of uncertainity in the future, there's no path to home owning for the middle class and there's no guarantee of beimg employed past a three year horizon.

Only the dumb people with no foreshadowing are breeding in this climate (and a small upper class minorty that almost doesn't exixst anymore). And while that may replenish the workforce they won't have the resource to become skilled workers, more like the next generation unemployeds harassing people on the street or worse

Also see: places with lower disequality income (both in poverty and richness) having greater growth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 03:06:52 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 02:52:33 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 06:00:36 pm

That actually seems more like the problem of progressive policies being appropriated by the financial elite. Things like the reduction of religion in politics, gay rights, women's equality, race rights and the like were closely tied with pro-working class movements that wanted to redistribute wealth and extend social safety nets.

That's not hoe the world works.

You can't have the results of your actions be something you don't like and weren't expecting and then say, "Oh, well, it's not OUR fault. It's someone else's fault." It's like when people donate to charities for Africa and then it ends up causing more misery by propping up a dictatorship. You're NOT allowed to say it was someone else's fault since it was YOUR action that caused the problem.

Religion in politics has just resulted in a society that has Christian values without any of the religious fervour to help it and the inability to argue theology. Now you need to argue against people's base values and mindset without being able to target anything to them. We live in a secular Christian society and that's even worse than living in a religious Christian one.

Also, progressivism isn't responsible for technology. Unless you're saying the Victorians were progressive.

I mean, you know, dictatorships collapsing tends to cause a lot of misery too. I don't know if you're aware of the current situation in the Middle East...?

Though it's cool how you're saying the cause of this was progressives, and not a combination of events including progressives.

Also I disagree on the secular Christian society being worse than religious Christian one. Though, I'm curious now. Do you think reinstating a feudal monarchy with strong exit rights within noble's holdings would be beneficial to society?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 05, 2017, 03:12:56 am

Quote from: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 12:56:52 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 08:43:27 pm

A quick flick through some statistics inclines me to think Muslims in the UK have trended towards Labour, but I can't find a good break down on the numbers going into the past. Seems like the only non-Christians who tend towards Conservatives in the UK are Jews though, which is hardly surprising given that they tend to be socially conservative.

Source?

http://www.brin.ac.uk/2014/the-british-election-study-2015-religious-affiliation-and-attitudes/

Just some tables and things there with poll data from different religious groups in the UK on voting intentions. Sample sizes are pretty crap outside Atheists and Anglicans, but the trends match up with some stuff I've read in the past.

Didn't have much time to look further yet because it was 2 in the morning and I have work. If the conversation hasn't zoomed by when I get home later I might go look further into it.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 02:52:33 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 06:00:36 pm

That actually seems more like the problem of progressive policies being appropriated by the financial elite. Things like the reduction of religion in politics, gay rights, women's equality, race rights and the like were closely tied with pro-working class movements that wanted to redistribute wealth and extend social safety nets.

Also, progressivism isn't responsible for technology. Unless you're saying the Victorians were progressive.

Ignoring everything else for now, but where did anyone suggest progressive values lead to technological advancement?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 03:19:54 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 03:06:52 am

I mean, you know, dictatorships collapsing tends to cause a lot of misery too. I don't know if you're aware of the current situation in the Middle East...?

Though it's cool how you're saying the cause of this was progressives, and not a combination of events including progressives.

Also I disagree on the secular Christian society being worse than religious Christian one. Though, I'm curious now. Do you think reinstating a feudal monarchy with strong exit rights within noble's holdings would be beneficial to society?

So we should prop up dictatorships and ensure that people have no freedom of their own?

It's ripping off a band aid versus torturing someone with it on.

Do you think religious Christianity is inherently pro-feudalism or something? Have you read the Bible?

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 05, 2017, 03:12:56 am

Ignoring everything else for now, but where did anyone suggest progressive values lead to technological advancement?

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on January 04, 2017, 06:01:58 pm

The continual decline of wages has more to do with decreasing margins of production and the monopoly of land ownership than it does with the gross supply of labor or pressures of population (though you are right about a "progressive" society depressing wages in the sense of technological innovation). As society grows more efficient and productive (and a greater portion of economic activity is done in large cities with extremely high land values), the gain in the value of goods and services produced does not translate into higher wages; it actually has the opposite effect, as increasingly marginal land is exploited and labor grows increasingly dependent on land and capital. Almost all of the newly created wealth is swallowed up by rent, either directly or indirectly, while labor (and to a lesser extent capital) experiences a decrease in the portion earned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Phmcw on January 05, 2017, 05:17:11 am

For me, being left wing is seeing society as a system that can be adapted, tweaked an tuned with an humanistic goal in mind, while being right-wing is seeing society as a collection of individual whose path are mainly driven by their own merits.


For example, if you tell me that you have an issue with criminality, I'll answer that the system is flawed and suggest tweaks to improve it.
I see that the right suggest that the individuals are flawed and have low moral values and need to be punished.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 05, 2017, 08:48:17 am

Quote from: scriver on January 05, 2017, 02:11:47 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 04, 2017, 05:55:46 pm

Me thinks the problem is far from being an economic issue alone. Look at the main course for today's islamization issue, sweden. Sweden had and still has one of the highest standards of living and succesful welfare states of the recent years, with high wages and government programs that helped people with education, housing, healthcare, etc, and yet it has HUGE youth suicide rates. And as much as people might cry about it, sweden is the last place on europe were you'd find a society dominated by "conservative christian rethoric". In fact, if there was such a thing in sweden, then it wouldn't be in the fucking swamp its currently sinking in, at least not in regards to illegal immigrants and islam taking their children away.

People threw away their sense of responsibility with society and cultural identity. They emptied themselves and their children expecting this to open the doors to ultimate freedom, and instead it only made them empty and lonely. They've surrounded themselves with bland, safe, placid lives of no expectations and few responsibilities. They threw their religion away because they though it restricted them rather than make them question themselves, they threw their culture away because they were too lazy to learn about it, they threw their family away because it made them unconfortable at times, so when someone with a strong message, regardless of how insane it is, comes and opens their doors to these people, said people grab onto it, because it gives them something they didn't have in their confort zones: a sense of purpose. Whats worse, society has arranged a system that prevents people from speaking out against said strong message, because its racist and islamophobic to do so, even if clerics go around in the streets telling people what they should and shouldn't do and advocate violence to nonbelievers.

In being too tolerant, people have become tolerant of intolerance.

Families today are feeble arrangements of people who demand love from one another without demanding respect first, where parents are distant because they have to both work and leave their children at school and at home because they are too exhausted to do anything about it when they're not working. That is, if people even have more than one child because this is europe we're talking about, lel.

Thats how your swedish dudeweed bisexual neighbor who faps to /d/ becomes al swedi the decapitator.

Sure, your circle of internet friends may make fun of your catholic neighbor and his housewive wife, who goes to mass, waves a flag during national holidays and ocasionaly hunts and eats a deer or two, but when push comes to shove, its him who's gonna be keeping his family safe and not taking underage concubines and shooting his brothers in the head because hassan the machete jihadist told him to do so.

You don't seem to know as much about Swedish history and the development of societal culture as you think you do. You probably shouldn't speak with such certainty when all it does is reveal your own misunderstandings and misgivings about both past and present


[author=Covenant link=topic=155469.msg7315744#msg7315744 date=1483571464]
TempAcc: A nice summary. Everyone was in such a rush to shit on their own culture and past for its flaws, without realising that there was a hell of a lot more value there then they'd ever realised.

All the blue-haired dragon-kin demi-girls hated things like tradition, or the Church, because those things said they were wrong, so they tore them down - not realising that those things were a bulwark against much more serious threats.

Grim: 'Appropriated by the financial elite' is a good way to put it. The old left fought for the working class. The new left fights for its paymasters, while distracting everyone with guff about transgender bathrooms or 'mansplaining'.

Are you saying that the tumbler opinionist crowd have access to time travel technology? Or, if not, how else are you proposing they'd able to cause effects before they even existed?
[/quote]

Whats so innacurate about it? Sweden does have one of the best living conditions in the world (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/) according to pretty much every index that ranks this sort of thing, its also one of the least religious countries in the world, and yet islam is becoming more popular every day (https://sweden.se/society/10-fundamentals-of-religion-in-sweden/). The only info I listed that isn't exactly correct in the latest years is the suicide rate, which has gone down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate), but was one of the highest in the world during most of the 20th century, and its still far above norway's. Additionaly sweden offers more social benefits and even permanent residency (http://www.thelocal.se/20160104/why-do-refugees-prefer-sweden-to-denmark) to "syrian refugees", being even more open than denmark in this regard. Sure, Sweden had the economic swamp of the early 90s, but even then it was still quite well above the world average, and it has recovered a fair bit since.

Hell, at least one swedish friend of mine has commented such things with me before I actualy got to know any of this. So unless there's a magical alternate reality (or revisionism) inside sweden that somehow makes this not true, or that every info about sweden on the internet is made up of propaganda, I'm pretty sure I wasn't too far from the truth when I spoke of sweden in specific, which is just the first paragraph, the rest of it regards western europe in general.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 05, 2017, 10:05:33 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 05, 2017, 08:48:17 am

Quote from: scriver on January 05, 2017, 02:11:47 am

Whats so innacurate about it? Sweden does have one of the best living conditions in the world (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/sweden/) according to pretty much every index that ranks this sort of thing, its also one of the least religious countries in the world, and yet islam is becoming more popular every day (https://sweden.se/society/10-fundamentals-of-religion-in-sweden/). The only info I listed that isn't exactly correct in the latest years is the suicide rate, which has gone down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate), but was one of the highest in the world during most of the 20th century, and its still far above norway's. Additionaly sweden offers more social benefits and even permanent residency (http://www.thelocal.se/20160104/why-do-refugees-prefer-sweden-to-denmark) to "syrian refugees", being even more open than denmark in this regard. Sure, Sweden had the economic swamp of the early 90s, but even then it was still quite well above the world average, and it has recovered a fair bit since.

Hell, at least one swedish friend of mine has commented such things with me before I actualy got to know any of this. So unless there's a magical alternate reality (or revisionism) inside sweden that somehow makes this not true, or that every info about sweden on the internet is made up of propaganda, I'm pretty sure I wasn't too far from the truth when I spoke of sweden in specific, which is just the first paragraph, the rest of it regards western europe in general.

Those are statistics brought up in the first paragraph, the rest of your post is just conclusions you've drawn according to your own bias and lack of knowledge (most of which are completely unsubstantiated by said statistics).

For example, you wrote "sweden is the last place on europe were you'd find a society dominated by "conservative christian rethoric". In fact, if there was such a thing in sweden, then it wouldn't be in the fucking swamp its currently sinking in, at least not in regards to illegal immigrants" which shows you do not even have any idea the Christian church is, both historically and currently, one of the main helper and hider of illegal immigrants in Sweden.

The rest of the post similarly shows that you of the twists and turns of society and temporal spirits, and consequently what have caused today's society, on such a fundamental that I would have to turn this post into a sociology and history lesson to explain it.

The way you go on about about current time at the end also calls into question if you even understand what the modern situation and people is like. Catholics, and hunting? You're kidding, right?

So yeah, you can go on about how it wasn't about Sweden but just "Europe in general" but that only means you're speaking in such general terms that it doesn't apply to anyone. And you should probably apply some more source criticism to what your "at least one Swedish friend" is telling you, because as is, you're just coming of like this "at least one Swedish friend" is just an amalgamation of dumb one-liners and memes about Sweden you've read on 4chan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 05, 2017, 10:34:33 am

Hey, if you think the Church of Sweden (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l9CaToJG-IU/V18yCXwYDvI/AAAAAAAADZ4/3edyvQVSmREK-QHPDUXfbm_ahJZSNn_4wCKgB/s1600/ordenacion-eva-brunne.jpg) can be considered a bearer of conservative christian rethoric, then I'm pretty sure I'm not the one getting my info out of 4chan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on January 05, 2017, 10:35:21 am

Got time to type out massive walls of text about whatever, but not to click Preview and fix your quote tags? Shameful, you guys. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 05, 2017, 11:26:49 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 05, 2017, 10:34:33 am

Hey, if you think the Church of Sweden (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l9CaToJG-IU/V18yCXwYDvI/AAAAAAAADZ4/3edyvQVSmREK-QHPDUXfbm_ahJZSNn_4wCKgB/s1600/ordenacion-eva-brunne.jpg) can be considered a bearer of conservative christian rethoric, then I'm pretty sure I'm not the one getting my info out of 4chan.

Yeah, if you aren't actually going to anchor your observations to the countries you're trying to observe then I'm not surprised your deductions end up being flawed. You can't see the world through your own navel, man.

Quote from: Egan_BW on January 05, 2017, 10:35:21 am

Got time to type out massive walls of text about whatever, but not to click Preview and fix your quote tags? Shameful, you guys. :P

I have no idea what you're talking about, that post of me quoting tempacc quoting me is perfectly fine! :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 11:54:20 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 03:19:54 am

So we should prop up dictatorships and ensure that people have no freedom of their own?

It's ripping off a band aid versus torturing someone with it on.

Do you think religious Christianity is inherently pro-feudalism or something? Have you read the Bible?

No, your username and opinions expressed this far just made wonder if you were a particular form of alt-right, the one that wants to go back to a monarchy system and thinks democracy is a failure rather than being neo-nazis.

And your views on dictatorships makes me think you never lives through the collapse of one. Don't get me wrong, there's certain things I would find unacceptable, but stability and a sense of order can be much nicer than regional warlords and 10-20 years of chaos because no one bothered setting up a system to replace the dictator effectively beforehand. It's like taking a cast off a badly broken limb that has a wound in it that might fester. Either way, there's gonna be issues , but if you aren't careful getting that cast off, you're just gonna make things worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 01:26:45 pm

Quote from: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 12:56:52 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 04, 2017, 08:43:27 pm

Source?

http://www.brin.ac.uk/2014/the-british-election-study-2015-religious-affiliation-and-attitudes/

Just some tables and things there with poll data from different religious groups in the UK on voting intentions. Sample sizes are pretty crap outside Atheists and Anglicans, but the trends match up with some stuff I've read in the past.

Didn't have much time to look further yet because it was 2 in the morning and I have work. If the conversation hasn't zoomed by when I get home later I might go look further into it.

I didn't ask for a source for the latest political voting trend of Jews, i asked for a source for your statement that Jews tend to be socially conservative which i find to be in contrast to my experience and knowledge and even the source of the source you linked to actually affirms that:

Quote

"However, when it comes to personal morality, Jews hold far more liberal stances on abortion, for example, than other religious groups. 54% of British Jews-by-religion would keep the time limit for abortions at 24 weeks or even raise it, as against 44% among adherents of the Church of England.

Similarly, with respect to whether same sex couples should be allowed or not allowed to get married, Jews-by-religion split 52%/39% as against 44%/43% for Church of England.

For Jews, proponents of gay marriage vastly outnumber opponents 77% to 18%, in comparison with a smaller margin of 69%/20% for non-Jews with no religion."

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/new-surveys-shed-light-on-who-we-are-1.49542

These are "Jews by religion", which is only 2/3 of the Jews asked. if it was Jews by ethnicity or lineage or whatever, i bet the Social trends would lean even more to the liberal.

Since Muslims clearly vote for Labour, unless you are trying to suggest that Muslims tend to be socially liberal based on their voting trends, which would be ridiculous, we can safely assume voting trends in the UK has little to nothing to do with the social values the followers of these religions hold.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 02:10:37 pm

I believe it's because Jews have often been a persecuted minority, and have never really been the majority in any country except Israel for the last...how many thousand years?

So they have some sympathy for other minorities. Also Judaism seems much less...intense? than the other two Abrahamic religions? If that makes sense? It's less personal emotional investment, more community and family, in terms of the actual practices of the religion (not necessarily the history and traditions, considering they involve significant amounts of getting fucked over).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 02:20:29 pm

I mean, I have no factual evidence of such, it's just my impressions of it. It could be just the result of not being in the majority, like previously stated, and in places like Israel maybe it is a lot of personal emotional investment and devotion to the fundamentals of the text rather than rationalized interpretations (rationalized in the sense of rationalization), but there's more justification in the New Testament than the Old for supporting gay marriage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 05, 2017, 02:32:07 pm

Shabos goyim

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 05, 2017, 03:25:12 pm

oy vey

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 05, 2017, 03:32:40 pm

oy yoy yoy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 05, 2017, 03:50:55 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 05, 2017, 03:19:54 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on January 05, 2017, 03:12:56 am

Ignoring everything else for now, but where did anyone suggest progressive values lead to technological advancement?

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on January 04, 2017, 06:01:58 pm

The continual decline of wages has more to do with decreasing margins of production and the monopoly of land ownership than it does with the gross supply of labor or pressures of population (though you are right about a "progressive" society depressing wages in the sense of technological innovation). As society grows more efficient and productive (and a greater portion of economic activity is done in large cities with extremely high land values), the gain in the value of goods and services produced does not translate into higher wages; it actually has the opposite effect, as increasingly marginal land is exploited and labor grows increasingly dependent on land and capital. Almost all of the newly created wealth is swallowed up by rent, either directly or indirectly, while labor (and to a lesser extent capital) experiences a decrease in the portion earned.

This is part of why I hate the word "progressive." It's impossible to refer to progress, which should by definition be progressive (and progressive policies likewise be policies with the aim of progress), without it dredging up whatever connotations the individual has attributed to the word that give it a completely different meaning and renders it useless for communication.

I don't know what "progressive values" are, but I can tell you that a society that is progressing, at the bare minimum in the economic sense, is benefiting from -- there's that word again -- technological progress.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 05:13:17 pm

Quote from: Covenant on January 05, 2017, 02:25:32 pm

I mean it's a whole separate argument, so I'll leave it at this post, but what you said gave me the impression you've never heard of, for example, young boys in Manchester whose regular Saturday morning job was to go around turning on lights/fires/electronics for the local Jews because their religion forbade them from doing so.

*shrug* Nope, not really. Though, I suppose to me that doesn't seem like emotional investment? Judaism still has it's rituals and ceremonial rules like any other religion, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it's adherents stuck with them more, but rituals are often ways to cement and form community ties, from what I know. (Afaik) a lot of the more 'intense' religions have much less codified and laid-out rituals. They're more informal, and usually more about personal emotional experience/connection to God. Like Protestantism, particularly like, the Quakers and the various awakenings, versus Catholicism, I suppose. I'm probably not explaining what I'm seeing all that well, and it might be a pattern that doesn't actually exist and it's just me overanalyzing stuff again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 05:31:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 02:10:37 pm

I believe it's because Jews have often been a persecuted minority, and have never really been the majority in any country except Israel for the last...how many thousand years?

Slightly less than thousands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 05, 2017, 05:36:58 pm

This is my favorite example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 05, 2017, 06:14:39 pm

Judaism is a diverse faith, not as much as Christianity or Islam to my knowledge, but it still has a bunch of different interpretations, some stricter than others on ritual and social matters. My main experience with religious Jews is with the middle of the road to strict ones, who have not been what I would call liberal by any means, though the non-religious and less religious ethnic Jews I've met (I've probably met more than I'm aware of due to it not coming up in conversation and a lack of visual signifiers of culture) have been more liberal. Don't meet many though, very small demographic in all the countries I've lived in, so my experiences aren't representative anyway. Would be interested to see a good statistical breakdown of Jewish populations by interpretation of scripture, but I can't find any.



Anyway, I did a bit more looking into the matter of Jews and their voting trends. The articles I can find say that Jews in the US strongly trend Democrat, but the ones I can find for the UK indicate that the population as a whole in Britain (which is a tiny demographic, I think one article said they're 0.5% of the electorate) is roughly evenly split and they follow the age divide in party allegiance rather than a religious one or say that they trend Conservative. You'd think someone would have been polling stuff like this and compiling graphs over the past few decades but apparently not. /sigh

Looked into Israel itself a bit, figured it might be a good insight into political trends for the demographic elsewhere. I can't find much  concrete on the social platforms of the major parties beyond blanket terminology like 'Liberal', which doesn't tell me much, but Israel seems to have a good record on homosexual rights and gender identity. Not great on the homosexual marriage and adoption front, but still seem to be pretty good as things go. Race relations are mixed. Overall seems to be slanted towards liberal policy and interpretation of law, lot of laws that were written with heterosexuals in mind were determined to cover homosexuals as well, racism is officially denounced even if still institutionally a problem in a lot of ways, so on and so forth.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 06:56:43 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on January 05, 2017, 05:36:58 pm

This is my favorite example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars)

How is that an example of Jews being a majority in a country? unless you adhere to the:

Quote

This theory still finds occasional support, but most scholars view it with skepticism. The theory is sometimes associated with antisemitism and anti-Zionism.

there's no reason even bringing it up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 05, 2017, 07:50:34 pm

Why is it even objectionable to say that the Khazar nobility were Jewish/said they were Jewish?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 05, 2017, 08:28:11 pm

Of all the ways to find out that I'm literally hitler, this was probably the least expected.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 05, 2017, 09:19:09 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 05, 2017, 07:56:02 pm

Because he read a single quote at the end of the introduction of the Wikipedia topic talking about the origin of Astrakhani Jews originating from a Jewish diaspora from said Khanate, removed all context of said quote, and used it to refute the notion that said khanate was jewish whatsoever.

No I saw that and agree that it's absurd, what I don't understand is why the theory that the descendants of Khazars make up part of the Ashkenazim population is antisemitic in the first place, as Vilanat seems to be implying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 05, 2017, 09:37:04 pm

Quote from: Baffler on January 05, 2017, 09:19:09 pm

No I saw that and agree that it's absurd, what I don't understand is why the theory that the descendants of Khazars make up part of the Ashkenazim population is antisemitic in the first place, as Vilanat seems to be implying.

The legitimacy of the state of Israel is founded on a twofold basis:

• Loads of Jews are already there and have been there for gorillions of years
• Jews don't have a state and could completely die out without one

Ashkenazim Jews make up loads of Israel's population. By saying the Khazars were Ahkenazi Jewish the inference is that Israeli Jews were Khazar settlers and not natives of Palestine who migrated throughout Europe from Italy. If they were migrants from Palestine who migrated throughout Yurop through the Holy Roman Empire and shit, then that makes the right of return stuff more legit, because it's a return to an ancestral homeland. By saying they've not got ancestral roots to Palestine but instead the Khazars of the steppes, it undermines legitimacy #1, basically saying they're yuropoor colonizers and have no right to be in Palestine

It's pretty complex shit, like 5 dimensional narrative chess and bullshit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 11:34:21 pm

The inverse also basically says that the Palestinians are usurpers of the land and therefore have no right to it. :/

yay complicated shit


Can't we just like build an island in the mediterranean?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 06, 2017, 12:22:23 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 11:34:21 pm

The inverse also basically says that the Palestinians are usurpers of the land and therefore have no right to it. :/

yay complicated shit


Can't we just like build an island in the mediterranean?

Mmm.  We could, but who would give up their maritime rights to a part of the Mediterranean to build it?  We can't even just wait for an island to pop up ex nihilo.  The last time that happened there, no less than four countries (UK, Spain, France, Two Sicilies) got involved in a race to claim the nascent island, at which point it sank.  And of course, not even that was enough to finish the dispute off, considering that in 2000, the Sicilians dropped a plaque and flag (a Sicilian rather than Italian one, no less) reiterating their claim on it, in spite of it still being underwater. 
^{It's always fun to learn that Pratchett's Jingo was actually directly based on a real event.}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 06, 2017, 12:35:10 am

I mean, I was just thinking around a part of international(?) waters near-ish Jerusalem. I mean, hell, it'd be a lot more secure, for the most part. Make it nicely sized (Netherlands is thought to have been filled in and had water pumped out and whatnot, can't be that difficult, if time consuming), and they can even have their own agriculture 'n everything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 06, 2017, 12:50:01 am

Neither Israel or Palestine would accept it anyway. Don't take away muh holy-land-home, bro.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 06, 2017, 04:29:31 am

Quote from: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 05:31:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 02:10:37 pm

I believe it's because Jews have often been a persecuted minority, and have never really been the majority in any country except Israel for the last...how many thousand years?

Slightly less than thousands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien

How do you pronounce that without it becoming 'Kingdom of Semen'?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 06, 2017, 04:40:52 am

...You pronounce the 'i'.  It's there for a reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on January 06, 2017, 05:35:57 am

Quote from: Ispil on January 05, 2017, 07:48:01 pm

Dear god the selective quotation, removal of context, and misrepresentation in that post above mine is so ridiculous it deserves a medal.

Really now? how is that so? what sort of context have i damaged? how was my quote selective? iv'e got this repeating feeling there's a problem with either my, or a lot of people's reading comprehension here so i would love clarification:
I ask for a source for Jews tendency to be socially conservative and i get a source for their recent political voting trend in the UK.
I give an anecdotal, totally informative and not argumentative one bit historic example of Jews having a majority in a country other than Israel, and i get in response an heavily loaded example of a country where there were Jews living in it.

Is the Khazars a good example of Jewish majority in a country? heck, that same source says no, it isn't. even if you accept everything said about the Khazars and Jews in that source, they still formed a very small minority in that country, even if it was the ruling elite, so no matter how you twist it, it wasn't a good example at Jews being a majority in a country which is what was being discussed.

So if it's such a lousy example of Jewish forming majority in a country, which is what was being implied by giving it as an example in the discussion context, why is it his favourite example? i mean, unless he adheres to that text i quoted, which i quoted only to show it was there written in that very same article which certainly negate the notion he wasn't aware of it, what's the reason for bringing a non-relevant example and emphasizing it as his favourite?

If the discussion was about the supposed origin of some of the Ashkenazy Jews, it could have been an okish, heavily disputed and debunked example. if the discussion was about countries where Jews used to live in, then sure, i'd still heavily suspect the motives for anyone singling out that example, but ok. but when the discussion is about Jews forming a majority in a country? what could be the reason?

In 99% of the times i see people mention the Khazars or bring up the Khazars-Jewish thing, it's by Anti-semitic and Muslim trolls on twitter, article comments sections and such. you do need to realize that this specific example is regularly being used by Russian supremacists, Neo-Nazis and Jihadists, some of it is being used to negate Jews historic relation to Israel, some of it was being used by the Soviets to blame Jews for everything wrong in the USSR, some of it is used to blame the Jews for the dissolution of the USSR and some of it is even being used as to blame Jews for WW1 and WW2. there is no getting around this fact so if you expect me to just assume it's in good faith, especially when it is being brought in out of context, then no, it is a too heavily loaded subject to just assume it was naively brought up.

It's like a white guy calling a black kid Boy and expecting the kid to assume it's in good faith. "hey, he is a boy, isn't he?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 07:47:22 am

Why is calling someone boy offensive

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 06, 2017, 08:00:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 07:47:22 am

Why is calling someone boy offensive

It'd be condescending, generally.

Though you Brits have it differently, culturally at least, with the saying 'my boy' which is more like saying 'my friend', I think. The difference is in the attitude and context probably. Also the history behind it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 08:09:48 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 06, 2017, 08:00:31 am

It'd be condescending, generally.

Though you Brits have it differently, culturally at least, with the saying 'my boy' which is more like saying 'my friend', I think. The difference is in the attitude and context probably. Also the history behind it.

Two ways, 'my boy' equivalent to something like 'my son' and 'YEAH BOI BRLAP BRLAP BRLAP'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 06, 2017, 08:37:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 06, 2017, 04:29:31 am

Quote from: Vilanat on January 05, 2017, 05:31:06 pm

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 05, 2017, 02:10:37 pm

I believe it's because Jews have often been a persecuted minority, and have never really been the majority in any country except Israel for the last...how many thousand years?

Slightly less than thousands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien)

How do you pronounce that without it becoming 'Kingdom of Semen'?

My seamen too stronk for your landlubbers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 06, 2017, 09:22:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 07:47:22 am

Why is calling someone boy offensive

As I understand it, "boy" was one of the ways to condescendingly address black men during... I dunno, in the past. Therefore it is still loaded in ways which similar phrases such as "kid" or "son" or even "girl" is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 09:24:02 am

Quote from: scriver on January 06, 2017, 09:22:05 am

As I understand it, "boy" was one of the ways to condescendingly address black men during... I dunno, in the past. Therefore it is still loaded in ways which similar phrases such as "kid" or "son" or even "girl" is.

The West must die

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 06, 2017, 09:33:08 am

Relevant? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCG3WgYxPkI)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 06, 2017, 12:04:39 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Vilanat on January 06, 2017, 05:35:57 am

Quote from: Ispil on January 05, 2017, 07:48:01 pm

Dear god the selective quotation, removal of context, and misrepresentation in that post above mine is so ridiculous it deserves a medal.

Really now? how is that so? what sort of context have i damaged? how was my quote selective? iv'e got this repeating feeling there's a problem with either my, or a lot of people's reading comprehension here so i would love clarification:
I ask for a source for Jews tendency to be socially conservative and i get a source for their recent political voting trend in the UK.
I give an anecdotal, totally informative and not argumentative one bit historic example of Jews having a majority in a country other than Israel, and i get in response an heavily loaded example of a country where there were Jews living in it.

Is the Khazars a good example of Jewish majority in a country? heck, that same source says no, it isn't. even if you accept everything said about the Khazars and Jews in that source, they still formed a very small minority in that country, even if it was the ruling elite, so no matter how you twist it, it wasn't a good example at Jews being a majority in a country which is what was being discussed.

So if it's such a lousy example of Jewish forming majority in a country, which is what was being implied by giving it as an example in the discussion context, why is it his favourite example? i mean, unless he adheres to that text i quoted, which i quoted only to show it was there written in that very same article which certainly negate the notion he wasn't aware of it, what's the reason for bringing a non-relevant example and emphasizing it as his favourite?

If the discussion was about the supposed origin of some of the Ashkenazy Jews, it could have been an okish, heavily disputed and debunked example. if the discussion was about countries where Jews used to live in, then sure, i'd still heavily suspect the motives for anyone singling out that example, but ok. but when the discussion is about Jews forming a majority in a country? what could be the reason?

In 99% of the times i see people mention the Khazars or bring up the Khazars-Jewish thing, it's by Anti-semitic and Muslim trolls on twitter, article comments sections and such. you do need to realize that this specific example is regularly being used by Russian supremacists, Neo-Nazis and Jihadists, some of it is being used to negate Jews historic relation to Israel, some of it was being used by the Soviets to blame Jews for everything wrong in the USSR, some of it is used to blame the Jews for the dissolution of the USSR and some of it is even being used as to blame Jews for WW1 and WW2. there is no getting around this fact so if you expect me to just assume it's in good faith, especially when it is being brought in out of context, then no, it is a too heavily loaded subject to just assume it was naively brought up.

It's like a white guy calling a black kid Boy and expecting the kid to assume it's in good faith. "hey, he is a boy, isn't he?"

The Khazars are my favorite historical example of a country that was ruled by Jews, because it's such a weird quirk of history to have a bunch of medieval Turkic nomads converting to Judaism. They weren't a majority, but there's little difference between being a majority and being the ruling class, at least in this context, which is why it came to mind and I brought it up. I honestly had no idea there was this much Israeli and Muslim propaganda surrounding this topic; I linked it because that page is a fun read, like that of the article you linked on the Beta Israelis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 06, 2017, 12:08:23 pm

I just want to say I didn't know about Kingdom of Semien,  and appreciate you linking me to it, Vilanat.

Point still mostly stands, though. Very few countries have they been the majority. :/ Pogroms and shit have been happening to them for centuries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on January 06, 2017, 05:00:08 pm

From beyond the parody horizon.. Sweden yes!

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/14/europe/sweden-russia-gay-sailor-submarine/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 06, 2017, 05:35:50 pm

Parody is exaggeration, that is just Sweden

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 06, 2017, 06:18:00 pm

I see Sweden submariners are just desperate for good-looking foreign men to comfort their souls... and maybe something more than souls ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 06, 2017, 06:20:41 pm

Great, now in 30 years every gay person in Sweden will be Russian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2017, 08:47:40 pm

I'm lost for words

this kills the nation (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/israels-parliamentary-plot-uk-politicians-170107220710691.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2017, 11:35:33 pm

Brietbart stirring up some trouble in Germany. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-quash-breitbart-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 08, 2017, 12:13:45 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 07, 2017, 11:35:33 pm

Brietbart stirring up some trouble in Germany. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/07/german-police-quash-breitbart-story-of-mob-setting-fire-to-dortmund-church)

Quote from: http://www.ruhrnachrichten.de/staedte/dortmund/44137-Dortmund~/Silvester-Boellerverbote-und-Platzverweise-Die-Lage-in-Dortmund;art930,3185532

Update Monday, 12 noon: A night without respect at the main station.

The first signs of a restless night was that the federal police were called on New Year's Eve already at 18:35, when a New Year's Eve rocket was shot at a group of homeless people with a 32-year-old serious injured (see entry 11:23 o'clock). At 7PM, a group of men fired a number of lanterns from the Katharinenstraße at the main station. The men were checked, fireworks let off. 25 minutes later, several suspects protested against federal police officers swearing at them saying "fuck you" and "police shit." Similar incidents were repeated over and over again.

Federal police spokesman Volker Stall said that from 6:45 pm large groups of people with up to 300 men had stayed in and at the main station, then entered closed in trains in the direction of Rhineland. At 2.25, 400 persons from a regional expedition, which had driven from the Rhineland to Dortmund. Update Monday, 11:23 an: Serious injuries recorded at the main station.

We talked with the Federal Police about operations at New Year's Eve and New Year's night at Dortmund's main station. Policemen and travelers there experienced an "aggressive atmosphere," said federal police officer Volker Stall. Responsible for these dangerous actions are "young men with and without migrant backgrounds." Policemen and passersby were attacked with fireworks. How dangerous the situation was is shown in this case: An unknown person fired a rocket at about 6:35 pm - but he did not target the air, instead targeting a homeless man. "The man had to be admitted to a hospital with first degree burns. He had burns on his hands and head." Said the spokesman. In the station building, unauthorized smoke bombs were ignited, which also severely affected travelers.

Update New Year, 6:16 pm: A video shows the happenings on the Leeds square:
And you can see the video evidence yourself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQsnMipW4Q)

Just look at this shit

Quote

German police quash Breitbart story of mob setting fire to Dortmund church

Police quash the story how...? They said so, that's why. You would have to be an idiot and ignore the first hand evidence available, evidence that the Guardian deliberately ignored, to do otherwise - because the Guardian wants people to believe none of this happened. Hell, look at how they describe the fireworks attack:

Quote

Stray fireworks did start a small blaze, but only on netting covering scaffolding on the church and it was put out after about 12 minutes, the paper reported. The roof was not on fire and the church is not Germany’s oldest.

Ahaha stray fucking fireworks, as if they were innocent revelers who got overexcited and weren't setting homeless people on fire or attacking the police. You can clearly see the Guardian is attempting to get people to believe that these stray fireworks were accidental and not deliberate

Quote

Country’s politicians warn against fake news after Breitbart website said group chanting ‘Allahu Akbar’ vandalised church on New Year’s Eve
German media and politicians have warned against an election-year spike in fake news after the rightwing website Breitbart claimed a mob chanting “Allahu Akbar” had set fire to a church in the city of Dortmund on New Year’s Eve.
The local newspaper, Ruhr Nachrichten, said elements of its online reporting on New Year’s Eve had been distorted by Breitbart to produce “fake news, hate and propaganda”.
The justice minister of Hesse state, Eva Kühne-Hörmann, said that “the danger is that these stories spread with incredible speed and take on lives of their own”.
The controversy highlights a deepening divide between backers of German chancellor Angela Merkel’s liberal stance toward refugees and a rightwing movement that opposes immigration, fears Islam and distrusts the government and media.
Tens of thousands clicked and shared the Breitbart.com story with the headline “Revealed: 1,000-man mob attack police, set Germany’s oldest church alight on New Year’s Eve”.
It said the men had “chanted Allahu Akbar (God is greatest), launched fireworks at police and set fire to a historic church”, while also massing “around the flag of al-Qaida and Islamic State collaborators the Free Syrian Army.”

Look at all this crap. All attacks on character without addressing any of the god damned evidence
I'm too tired and busy for this bullshit FFS

Quote

The local newspaper said Breitbart had combined and exaggerated unconnected incidents to create a picture of chaos and of foreigners promoting terrorism.

Yeah because foreigners singing and dancing around a FSA flag whilst setting people on fire or attacking the police is a lawful society (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQsnMipW4Q)


This is the exact same fucking shit again and again and you all keep falling for it. German admins delete CCTV of Cologne attacks. (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1b_1452579086&comments=1) German police & media cover up 2016 taharrush. (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/) You fall for it. German police not even allowed to use the word rape in their reports. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-police-ordered-to-remove-word-rape-from-reports-into-new-year-s-eve-sexual-assaults-a6972471.html) You fall for it. German police tell you that there's nothing to worry about when you can see for your own eyes, you fall for it. I'm too rustled over the parliamentary plot, too busy with current work, Guardian is rustling my jimmies on purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 08, 2017, 12:39:37 am

Theres two leaders running for Chancellor (or at least main contenders) who have the last name Merkel? Angela Merkel and this Gabriel Diet Merkel?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 08, 2017, 12:41:57 am

Quote from: Covenant on January 08, 2017, 12:31:41 am

Ayyy Merkel is finally succeeding at her primary goal of triggering the fuck out of LW.

ALL IS LOST

Quote from: Covenant on January 08, 2017, 12:31:41 am

Were you honestly expecting better? I mean, not to pick on Germany, but the main contenders for Chancellor this year are what, Merkel, Gabriel Diet Merkel, or Martin fucking Schultz, fresh from four years of having his head swirlied in all the EU bogs by our Nige. If that's not a sign of the times then I don't know what is.

Who cares about leaders, people can effect revolting peasant change always. The UK was led by Cameron, diet Cameron, clown Cameron and Wallace and Gromit, still we had top bant tekkers slagging low grade bank clerks with the charisma of damp rags

Quote from: Covenant on January 08, 2017, 12:31:41 am

The real twist is that all this was engineered by one man, one twisted, diabolical genius of a man. And when the smoke clears, we'll all know that Gareth Southgate has at last gotten his belated revenge for Euro '96.

Personally I like to think all of this was arranged in advance by a Roman haruspex who wanted to ensure that no matter how strong the germanians got, they would sow their own discord and disaster. That or God wants them extinct ASAP, OT style

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 08, 2017, 04:49:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 08, 2017, 12:39:37 am

Theres two leaders running for Chancellor (or at least main contenders) who have the last name Merkel? Angela Merkel and this Gabriel Diet Merkel?

Nah, he's reffering to Sigmar Gabriel, the current head of the SPD, calling him "Diet Merkel", because for him all mainstream politicians are the same or somthering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 08, 2017, 06:51:06 am

The largest military reinforcement since the end of the cold war has arrived in Germany. The US sent 87 tanks, 144 various military vehicles and 3500 men, to be deployed in Eastern Europe, as a deterrent against Putin. There's more to follow. 10 Chinooks, 50 Blackhawks and 1800 military personell from fort Drum, New York and a battalion with 40 Apache helicopters and 400 men crew will be redeployed to Europe from Fort Bliss, Texas.
The US forces will first deploy in Poland, from where they will spread out over 7 countries, from Estonia to Bulgaria. Their HQ will be in Germany.

Earlier this year, the UK already sent a battalion of ground troops, tanks and armoured vehicles to Estonia, backed by Danish and French forces. The UK is also sending the RAF to the Black Sea, while Germany is preparing to send tanks and troops to Latvia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 08, 2017, 08:43:22 am

Yey
Please no WWIII Russians, we are in peace (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/18/west-russia-on-course-for-war-nato-ex-deputy-commander)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 08, 2017, 09:21:41 am

That retired British general is forgetting one thing, the wildcard that is Trump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on January 09, 2017, 06:32:18 pm

"it was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton" Robert Anton Wilson

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 12, 2017, 08:08:27 am

It seems that the UK is not the only country suffering from hospital underfunding and understaffing.
In the Netherlands, a decade of scrapping old people's homes and making old people live independantly for longer, combined with budget cuts on hospitals is asking it's toll.

A flu epidemic has forced hospitals in the south of the Netherlands to stop taking in any new patients, and even cancel surgeries, because all beds are full with old people with the flu, who are too ill to send home to their independant homes. Many of the hospital staff have also called in sick with the flu, further complicating the issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 08:28:09 am

Too many old and obese, not enough children

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 12, 2017, 08:31:40 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 08:28:09 am

Too many old and obese, not enough children immigrants

FTFY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 08:40:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 12, 2017, 08:31:40 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 08:28:09 am

Too many old and obese, not enough children immigrants

FTFY

There are two kinds of people in the world

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 12, 2017, 12:04:12 pm

With Martin Schultz leaving as president of the European Parliament to go into German politics, the Parliament is getting ready to elect a new president. No single European party has a majority. Normally the two biggest parties (the center-right EPP and the center-left SPD)  (http://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-presidential-debate-live-blog-guy-verhofstadt-antonio-tajani-gianni-pittella/)make a deal to share this kind of important posts, but it seems to have broken down this time and genuine elections are going to happen, with every group presenting a candidate. You can have a quick rundown of their position on a bunch of issues here (http://www.politico.eu/article/quick-fire-questions-european-parliament-presidency-race-debate-answers-guy-verhofstadt-antonio-tajani-gianni-pittella/).

Of note: they all agree that we need a new treaty, and that Brexit will happens. Interestingly, the Greens went with a Brit.

While I lean Green, there is no real chance of a Green getting the job. I hope the two bigs party stalemate and end up settling behind Guy Verhofstadt as a compromise candidate, the guy is experienced (he was actually Prime Minister of Belgium.) As far as I can tell, apart fromAntonio Tajani, the EPP candidate (who was Comissioner for a while), all the others have no political experience outside the EP. He's also staunchly pro-European, and I really liked his performance at the Commission PResident debate.


-----

In other news, the ban on deep sea fishing was voted by the EP (http://www.seas-at-risk.org/16-fisheries/703-2016-ends-with-adoption-of-deep-sea-regulation-trawling-ban-below-800m-in-eu-waters.html) and is now an official European directive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 12:12:49 pm

Quote

In other news, the ban on deep sea fishing was voted by the EP (http://www.seas-at-risk.org/16-fisheries/703-2016-ends-with-adoption-of-deep-sea-regulation-trawling-ban-below-800m-in-eu-waters.html) and is now an official European directive.

That's good to hear, it's what I usually harp on about

Quote

Seas At Risk welcomes the adoption by the European Parliament of the deep sea regulation, which includes a ban on bottom trawling below 800 metres in EU waters and the obligation to close areas to bottom trawling below 400 metres where vulnerable marine ecosystems are present or likely to occur.
The deep sea is home to a large biodiversity including fragile habitats such as thousand year old deep-water corals and sponges. Bottom trawling is one of the most common deep sea bottom fishing methods, which consists of dragging heavy fishing nets along the seafloor. In doing so, not only targeted fish are caught, but also other deep sea animals that are later discarded. In addition, the heavy nets destroy sea floor habitats with consequent major loss of biodiversity and alteration of deep sea ecosystems.
In 2007, the European Commission reviewed the existing deepsea fishing regulation acknowledging that the EU failed to maintain most deep sea fisheries within safe biological limits or to protect vulnerable deep sea marine ecosystem from destructive fishing practices. However, since then, the legislative process suffered many delays.

I like that they prefaced their 10 year long failure to pass the ban with their failure to protect the ecyosystem. Here's hoping the EU manages to enforce the ban in the next 100 years


*EDIT
Poland accidentally names nonexistant country as supporting its bid for a seat at the UN security council (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/polands-foreign-minister-mocked-naming-non-existent-country/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 12, 2017, 02:19:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 12:12:49 pm

Poland accidentally names nonexistant country as supporting its bid for a seat at the UN security council (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/polands-foreign-minister-mocked-naming-non-existent-country/)

It's good to see that El Presidente is looking out for the interests of his allies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on January 12, 2017, 03:13:50 pm

Well, seems it didn't take long for the leap from fake news to fake countries to happen. Eagerly awaiting for Nibiru to make it's debut in 2018.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 12, 2017, 06:19:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 12:12:49 pm

Quote

In other news, the ban on deep sea fishing was voted by the EP (http://www.seas-at-risk.org/16-fisheries/703-2016-ends-with-adoption-of-deep-sea-regulation-trawling-ban-below-800m-in-eu-waters.html) and is now an official European directive.

That's good to hear, it's what I usually harp on about

Quote

Seas At Risk welcomes the adoption by the European Parliament of the deep sea regulation, which includes a ban on bottom trawling below 800 metres in EU waters and the obligation to close areas to bottom trawling below 400 metres where vulnerable marine ecosystems are present or likely to occur.
The deep sea is home to a large biodiversity including fragile habitats such as thousand year old deep-water corals and sponges. Bottom trawling is one of the most common deep sea bottom fishing methods, which consists of dragging heavy fishing nets along the seafloor. In doing so, not only targeted fish are caught, but also other deep sea animals that are later discarded. In addition, the heavy nets destroy sea floor habitats with consequent major loss of biodiversity and alteration of deep sea ecosystems.
In 2007, the European Commission reviewed the existing deepsea fishing regulation acknowledging that the EU failed to maintain most deep sea fisheries within safe biological limits or to protect vulnerable deep sea marine ecosystem from destructive fishing practices. However, since then, the legislative process suffered many delays.

I like that they prefaced their 10 year long failure to pass the ban with their failure to protect the ecyosystem. Here's hoping the EU manages to enforce the ban in the next 100 years

It's good it only protect European waters too, can't have things like common interest and decency and environmentalism threaten french fishing interests in Africa or wherever they've decided to lay waste to the eco system these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 12, 2017, 06:24:33 pm

Quote from: Jopax on January 12, 2017, 03:13:50 pm

Well, seems it didn't take long for the leap from fake news to fake countries to happen. Eagerly awaiting for Nibiru to make it's debut in 2018.

Just be careful to report any people or businesses claiming to represent or hail from the nation of Taured.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 13, 2017, 03:01:15 am

Quote from: scriver on January 12, 2017, 06:19:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 12, 2017, 12:12:49 pm

Quote

In other news, the ban on deep sea fishing was voted by the EP (http://www.seas-at-risk.org/16-fisheries/703-2016-ends-with-adoption-of-deep-sea-regulation-trawling-ban-below-800m-in-eu-waters.html) and is now an official European directive.

That's good to hear, it's what I usually harp on about

Quote

Seas At Risk welcomes the adoption by the European Parliament of the deep sea regulation, which includes a ban on bottom trawling below 800 metres in EU waters and the obligation to close areas to bottom trawling below 400 metres where vulnerable marine ecosystems are present or likely to occur.
The deep sea is home to a large biodiversity including fragile habitats such as thousand year old deep-water corals and sponges. Bottom trawling is one of the most common deep sea bottom fishing methods, which consists of dragging heavy fishing nets along the seafloor. In doing so, not only targeted fish are caught, but also other deep sea animals that are later discarded. In addition, the heavy nets destroy sea floor habitats with consequent major loss of biodiversity and alteration of deep sea ecosystems.
In 2007, the European Commission reviewed the existing deepsea fishing regulation acknowledging that the EU failed to maintain most deep sea fisheries within safe biological limits or to protect vulnerable deep sea marine ecosystem from destructive fishing practices. However, since then, the legislative process suffered many delays.

I like that they prefaced their 10 year long failure to pass the ban with their failure to protect the ecyosystem. Here's hoping the EU manages to enforce the ban in the next 100 years

It's good it only protect European waters too, can't have things like common interest and decency and environmentalism threaten french fishing interests in Africa or wherever they've decided to lay waste to the eco system these days.

I'm fairly certain that Europe doesn't have jurisdiction over Africa for something like 50 years now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 13, 2017, 04:15:11 am

No, but we have jurisdiction over what what European fishers do in African waters, particularly when they do it to sell cheap fish in the EU.

Not to mention that the EU do have de facto jurisdiction over African countries which are dependant on trade with EU even as EU companies are raping their environment and robbing them of their resources, or which do not have the economic or political influence to challenge the EU or EU-based businesses over transgressions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2017, 08:15:18 pm

The Balkans (Kosovo and Serbia specifically) seems to be simmering a bit. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38630152) Unless this kind of thing is actually rather common.

Goes to show the kinds of problems that will soon be Trump's to pay attention to. Though seems like he'd rather just let them slug it out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2017, 11:09:02 pm

The Balkans have been in perpetual outrage since the Roman Empire died, it has two temperatures: simmering and boiled

Strategically, Serbia cannot start war with Kosovo. It seems then Serbia is instead trying to provoke Kosovo into war (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2017&mm=01&dd=15&nav_id=100237). Possibly, neither want war, but are retarded.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2017, 01:24:03 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 15, 2017, 11:28:35 pm

Yeah, there's a reason that at this point I simply refer to my father as "Yugoslavian" over trying to explain exactly what sort of Balkan mutt he is. Besides, he was technically born in Yugoslavia so it works.

As for the Balkans being simmering/boiled, there was a nice little bit in the 9th century prior to Greek reconquest where things were rather nice between Serbia (Raska at the time) and Croatia. Next time you have an independent Serbia it's with the forming of the Kingdom (and then Empire) of Serbia, which mostly involved conquering everything in the region except Croatia (because Hungary). And then Ottomans.

I like the transition from Stefan the mighty to his son Stefan the weak. Fortunes change like palms turning over, in a flash

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on January 16, 2017, 02:32:41 pm

For a second I thought this was CK2 thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2017, 02:58:39 pm

>implying it's not

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2017, 04:30:20 pm

Quote from: greatorder on January 16, 2017, 04:21:52 pm

I'm imagining some weird history where Greece is lending money to a failing Germany.

YUO PAY DEBTS GERMONEY

In all seriousness though Greece is a tragedy. I'm not even sure that being Serbian could fix their nation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on January 16, 2017, 04:35:08 pm

We all know that there is only one thing that could save Greece. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1R45hW_vKME/TgAoltrJxAI/AAAAAAAAB3g/r91Kzuw7Djs/s1600/kaczor-szarza-husarii.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2017, 04:40:03 pm

Quote from: Kot on January 16, 2017, 04:35:08 pm

We all know that there is only one thing that could save Greece. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1R45hW_vKME/TgAoltrJxAI/AAAAAAAAB3g/r91Kzuw7Djs/s1600/kaczor-szarza-husarii.jpg)

Hussars cannot charge debts away

Quote

“Our country is doomed,” sighs Savvas Tzironis, summing up the mood. “Everything goes from bad to worse.”

Greece is kill (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/13/greek-economy-still-spiralling-down-year-after-crisis-declared-over)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 16, 2017, 04:41:59 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2017, 04:40:03 pm

Quote from: Kot on January 16, 2017, 04:35:08 pm

We all know that there is only one thing that could save Greece. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1R45hW_vKME/TgAoltrJxAI/AAAAAAAAB3g/r91Kzuw7Djs/s1600/kaczor-szarza-husarii.jpg)

Hussars cannot charge debts away

Can run through creditors though. If there's nobody for you to pay back, there's no debt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on January 16, 2017, 04:44:42 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 16, 2017, 04:41:59 pm

Can run through creditors though. If there's nobody for you to pay back, there's no debt.

*Mental image of German businessmen running away from a Winged Hussar charge.*
...yeah...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 17, 2017, 11:19:51 am

So, EP Presidential elections are underway. Tajani got a solid lead after two rounds of voting, but not an absolute majority. If no candidates has a majority after three rounds of voting, it comes down to the two frontrunner, in this case Antonio Tajani (Forza Italia, EPP, center-right) and Gianni Piuttella (PD, S&D, Center Left). Guy Verhofstadt, my homeboy withdrew his candidacy right before the vote. Next round start in ten minutes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 19, 2017, 04:45:22 am

First 'Silk Road' freight train arrives in UK from China (http://m.dw.com/en/first-silk-road-freight-train-arrives-in-uk-from-china/a-37185005)

Quote

The train began its intercontinental journey in the eastern Chinese city of Yiwu on January 1. It then passed through Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus, Poland, Germany, Belgium and France before entering Britain through the English Channel.

An entire new trade transportation route! Hopefully this, combined with the European alternative energy source projects and standing sanctions on the sales of oil equipment, will make Russian government fully abandon the cursed natural resources based economy and switch over to being an upstanding economical trading power, like Singapore and South Korea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 19, 2017, 08:02:30 am

It's the first to go to the UK but there has been other to France, Beglium and Germany before.

It could be bad news for place like Morocco: they have large textile industries based on the fact that they can supply fashion to Europe faster than a ship from China. On the other hand, as China grow richer  lower labour costs are less of an issue, and Morrocco can always improve its infrastructure too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2017, 08:40:55 am

Russia seems to just be doubling down on their resource dependency with their cheeki arctic exploits so it's unlikely they'll go full Singapore soon. They could become a Norway though, using their energy revenues to renovate their state and citizen's welfare, Putin banning smokes for kids for example is a step in the right direction in the style of Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew

Also Morocco has kinda been getting screwed over in textiles since Portugal found the Cape route, I kekkled heartily reading old accounts from London wool merchants of the 19th century complaining about Moroccan leather, Indian cotton and Chinese silk running them outta business. Such changes are sweeping and Morocco can't do much but adapt to the times sadly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 19, 2017, 08:47:14 am

They're still a major producer for companies like Zara that want to be able to deliver new clothing without waiting for a month of shipping time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 19, 2017, 08:55:58 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2017, 08:40:55 am

Russia seems to just be doubling down on their resource dependency with their cheeki arctic exploits so it's unlikely they'll go full Singapore soon.

Pffft no way they're ever going to actually do anything big with the Arctic, not with the sanctions in place.

You see, the majority of equipment that Russia used for oil drilling was produced by - guess who - not Russia. And guess what the sanctions have targeted since the beginning? Sales of the oil equipment.

It's like that "diversify from oil" thing they've had back in 2008 when oil prices temporarily dropped to $40, all talk and no action because no one's got the cash or technology to actually do it, especially with the available alternatives in place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2017, 09:08:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2017, 08:47:14 am

They're still a major producer for companies like Zara that want to be able to deliver new clothing without waiting for a month of shipping time.

Fast fashion does not have long term prospects, Turkish and Chinese competition will continue to erode Morocco's hold on cheap fast fashion (especially Turkey which no such geographical issues of China and China has their new silk routes) whilst British, French and Italian continue to dominate expensive fashions, especially since fast fashion can fall out of fashion (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/08/473513620/what-happens-when-fashion-becomes-fast-disposable-and-cheap), with fast fashion very vulnerable to their consumers changing their mind

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 19, 2017, 09:17:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2017, 09:08:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 19, 2017, 08:47:14 am

They're still a major producer for companies like Zara that want to be able to deliver new clothing without waiting for a month of shipping time.

Fast fashion does not have long term prospects, Turkish and Chinese competition will continue to erode Morocco's hold on cheap fast fashion (especially Turkey which no such geographical issues of China and China has their new silk routes) whilst British, French and Italian continue to dominate expensive fashions, especially since fast fashion can fall out of fashion (http://www.npr.org/2016/04/08/473513620/what-happens-when-fashion-becomes-fast-disposable-and-cheap), with fast fashion very vulnerable to their consumers changing their mind

Italians are losing the fashion market. Lack of investment and race to bottom is happening there as well. They're keeping the prices up to keep it exclusive, but as far quality goes there's been a sharp drop. Expect the few remaining firms to go trough a rough period as customers start responding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2017, 09:44:37 am

Quote from: LoSboccacc on January 19, 2017, 09:17:49 am

Italians are losing the fashion market. Lack of investment and race to bottom is happening there as well. They're keeping the prices up to keep it exclusive, but as far quality goes there's been a sharp drop. Expect the few remaining firms to go trough a rough period as customers start responding.

Textiles industry is truly the most remarkable, fascinating and terrifying of all industries of man

In other news, EU redrawing balance budgets in lieu of Brexit (http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-throws-eu-budget-off-course-uk-jes-geier-europe/)
I just assumed the EU would have no trouble filling that gap. EU may be able to secure some sterling payments in negotiations, but with lower sterling to euro exchange rate that still leaves a budget gap which will have to be filled by Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands and Germany

Quote

When Margaret Thatcher famously negotiated a permanent rebate for the U.K. at Fontainebleau in 1984, other countries wanted rebates too — Austria, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden have all had them, albeit granted on a temporary basis.
When the Brits leave, those other rebates will likely go as well.
“Since all the rebates are calculated on the basis of the British rebate, the other rebates will also disappear,” Geier said
“The EU budget issue will be a top priority for sure when the negotiations start,” an EU diplomat said. “Filing the British contribution is essential for the EU to avoid bankruptcy. And it will be a test to check if finding a EU27 position is actually realistic.”

Quote from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/17/brexit-will-bring-bitter-eu-budget-wars-report-warns/

It also warned that the shortfall "spells trouble" for the next round of EU budget negotiations as contributor nations, such as the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden balk at making extra payments to net recipients of EU funds, like Poland and Hungary.
"Brexit entrenches the existing differences between net contributors and net recipients," the authors warn, "Today's largest net contributors would be hardest hit...while net recipients would be relatively unaffected."
In practice, EU chiefs will be faced with an invidious choice between an unpopular increase in contributions from richer states and slashing EU budgets, a move the reports says would be "devastating" for the EU's efforts to convince citizens it delivers value.
A report commissioned by the European Commission, European Parliament and member states last week called for  effective federal taxes to be paid directly to Brussels to fund the EU budget.

I lol'd at the commission using this as an opportunity to centralize more power again
Like clockwork

Quote

EU-wide VAT of 1 or 2 per cent, standardised petrol taxes and a federal corporation tax were among the proposals put forward in the report delivered by a working group chaired by Mario Monti, the former Italian prime minister.
The Delors Institut reports does not rule out taxes, but says they will have to be part of a "grand bargain" on reforming both EU revenues and expenditures in order to attract political support.
Those reforms could see Spain and Ireland shifted into become net contributors to the EU budget, and reduce the amount that Italy currently receives from the EU, the report says.

Turning more countries into net contributors is 10/10 move from the EU, they should have been making this a priority many years ago

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 19, 2017, 09:52:53 am

1-2% VAT!?!?!?

how many billions does the EU burn every year for fucking us over under the Germany economical boot?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 19, 2017, 10:51:11 am

EU-wide taxation has been a longstanding proposal of all EU federalists, so it's not that surprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 19, 2017, 08:30:08 pm

MolExit? (https://euobserver.com/foreign/136582?utm_content=bufferadf53&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) Also, this (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/putin-s-old-moldova-map-alarms-romania-01-18-2017). (found these on RealClearWorld, one of the subsections of RealClear Politics).

Putin is certainly trying hard to break the current status quo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 19, 2017, 11:37:56 pm

Quote

“Half of today’s Romania is actually Moldova,” the President [of Moldova] noted, undiplomatically.

...

He added, however, that Moscow has no desire to see an „iron fence” go up on the border with Romania and also said humanitarian projects financed by Romania in Moldova should be allowed to continue their work.

Heh.  So, we'll sabre-rattle all we like against you, but please don't use that as a reason to stop giving us money.  Is that even accurate, or is it just a convenient quote-mine? 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 20, 2017, 05:39:43 am

So, relieving a whole continent, Hollande confirms he has no plan to replace Tusk (https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/hollande-has-no-plans-to-replace-tusk-aides-say/) as president of the Council.

And Germany legalize pots for medical reasons. (https://www.euractiv.com/section/health-consumers/news/germany-votes-to-ease-access-to-medical-marijuana/) You can even get your pot prescription reimbursed by your health insurance if there is no other effective treatment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on January 20, 2017, 03:27:10 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/20/510765186/police-in-u-k-use-stun-gun-on-their-own-community-relations-adviser

your doing it wrong UK in the good old US of A he would have been shot and the officer applauded for his bravery! /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2017, 03:30:17 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on January 20, 2017, 03:27:10 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/20/510765186/police-in-u-k-use-stun-gun-on-their-own-community-relations-adviser

your doing it wrong UK in the good old US of A he would have been shot and the officer applauded for his bravery! /s

On the bright side the body cams are doing their job proper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 05:11:01 pm

Last I checked it's not a crime to be a twat, certainly not one that warrants tasering a septuagenarian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on January 20, 2017, 06:53:39 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 05:11:01 pm

Last I checked it's not a crime to be a twat, certainly not one that warrants tasering a septuagenarian.

It is if being a twat includes trying to get away from police questioning you and resisting the police trying to prevent you from doing so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2017, 07:06:45 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2017, 06:53:39 pm

It is if being a twat includes trying to get away from police questioning you and resisting the police trying to prevent you from doing so.

Dude has a phobia of police from some sorta confrontation in 09 where he was wrongfully arrested

It's an awkward thing, because:

• He did nothing his rights didn't entitle him to do
• The police had the choice of letting someone they thought was the suspect get away, or escalate the confrontation

Prolly should've just told them his name from the start so they knew he wasn't their guy tbh, but I still get it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 07:09:37 pm

Quote from: Antioch on January 20, 2017, 06:53:39 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 05:11:01 pm

Last I checked it's not a crime to be a twat, certainly not one that warrants tasering a septuagenarian.

It is if being a twat includes trying to get away from police questioning you and resisting the police trying to prevent you from doing so.

No, it isn't. The police need a reason to arrest someone. A cynic might say they manufactured one, because they certainly didn't have one when he refused to answer their questions.

The guy dealt with the situation poorly. The police dealt with the situation even worse. There were two of them, and he's 70, there was no need to taze him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2017, 08:11:33 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 07:09:37 pm

No, it isn't. The police need a reason to arrest someone. A cynic might say they manufactured one, because they certainly didn't have one when he refused to answer their questions.

The two police officers saw a man on the streets who matched the description of someone who was wanted; they would've known there was no case on him if they knew his identity

Quote from: hector13 on January 20, 2017, 07:09:37 pm

The guy dealt with the situation poorly. The police dealt with the situation even worse. There were two of them, and he's 70, there was no need to taze him.

63, not 70, just being factually correct - moreover there were 2 of them, 1 of him and his dog, and 2 onlookers, but I think this is most relevant to their actions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Policeman: [Hard to tell, I think he says something along the lines of "why are you talking to me? I'm not the one writing this down"
Adunbi: [Says something]
Policewoman: All right, what's your name please?
Adunbi: I'm not telling you my name
Policewoman: do you respect your [something?]
Adunbi: You want to talk, one guy, come over here, you're going to record, and what you are doing-
Policewoman: -[something something] threatening us
Adunbi:-I'm not threatening you I'm telling you I am going to put up to the public and I'm going to defend myself, this is [something something something]-
Policewoman: -We'd like to know who you are
Adunbi: I'm not telling you who I am!
Policewoman: Why not?
Adunbi: Because it's our right. You are gonna [something something] and ensure that [something something]-
Policewoman: -You look like [something something] K?
Adunbi: I tell you if you tazer me, you'll probably kill me, and it'll cost you a hell of a lot
[Steps away, policeman steps to block him]
Policewoman: Right, I need you to stay calm, K?
Adunbi: I'm not telling you my name.
[recording skips]
Adunbi: -of your business.
Policeman: You're not telling me your name.
Policewoman: I've asked you to remain calm, right? [tazer in hand, visibly aimed at Adunbi]
Adunbi: [visibly agitated, keeps trying to walk through policeman] you're gonna calm me, your sergeant is going to tazer me for whatever reason [walking towards policewoman with his hands behind his back, she backs away as he advances]
Policewoman: Stay still, stay still
Adunbi: My hands are in the air, my palms are open, [still advancing]-
Policewoman: Yeah you've got keys in your hands [policeman is keeping pace behind Adunbi]
Adunbi: Yeah I've got keys in my hands
Cameraguy: He's going into his house, that's his house there, he's got his keys there [beep] that isn't a threat, seriously [Adunbi and policewoman speaking, unintelligible], yeah he's one of my neighbours he's a lovely guy, he's one of my neighbours I see him every day he's walking his dog he's a lovely bloke.
[video skips again]
[Adunbi going through garden gate, police follow]
Cameraguy: If you think it's him- Oi
Oi
He's just trying to get into his house
[police struggle, force through Adunbi's attempt to close the gate on them. Dog barking, Adunbi pushes policeman, policewoman grabs his arm]
Cameraguy: Leave him alone, yeah you just grabbed him
[Adunbi breaks grip of policewoman, policeman grabs him but he breaks his grip too, policewoman pulls tazer and tazes him]

I fully understand why he was so anxious but it's ridiculous to try and spin this as the police going out to tazer old people. It would be outrageous for example if the police were just going about asking people for their names and tazing when they don't comply but they informed him he matched the description of a suspect and he in turn grew aggravated, kept advancing on the policewoman even after she drew her tazer and warned him to calm down, and made multiple attempts to escape them even if walking through them.

Relevant:

Quote

Taser provides an additional option to resolve situations, including the threat of violence, which can come from any section of the public. In certain circumstances, the use of Taser is more appropriate than other use of force options in resolving dangerous situations safely and with less risk of serious injury. In addition, officers who are trained and equipped with Taser must decide on the most reasonable and necessary use of force in the circumstances. The level of force used must be proportionate to achieve the objective and officers are individually accountable in law for the amount of force they use on a person.

The alternatives to Taser include a range of other measures such as physical restraint, batons and police dogs. Much will depend upon the circumstances, but Taser will often be less injurious than resorting to baton strikes or deployment of a police dog. In the majority of cases involving Taser, the mere threat of its use has been enough to defuse a situation and ensure a peaceful resolution of the incident.

They failed to physically restrain him, he was only growing more agitated, he was adamant in refusing to tell them who he was even though he had his ID on him and batons would've done worse. What could have they have done better? Assaulting him would probably not have been an improvement, especially if it got the onlookers involved. Their only other option would have been to just let their suspect go, here's useful advise from the Guardian:

Quote

There is no requirement to give your name and address to a police officer or CSO who searches you. However, if they know these details they are required to include them in the search form that they have to complete and give to you once the search is completed. Police officers and CSOs may ask for these details just for the purposes of completing the form.

There are, however, circumstances where it might be a good idea to give your name and address to a police officer or CSO. If there is a suggestion that you have committed an offence it would be wise to give your details. A failure to identify yourself might lead to you being arrested for the offence where the police might otherwise have been happy to summons you (ie send you a date to attend court to answer the charge through the post). There are also circumstances where a failure to give these details could itself be an offence. The most notable example is where a police officer in uniform or a CSO considers that you have been acting in an antisocial manner. A refusal to give your name and address (or giving false details) if asked to do so in these circumstances is an offence for which you can be fined up to £1,000.

It's just common sense (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/jan/19/stop-and-search-civil-liberties-law), the most basic of details alone, simply telling them his name, would have meant none of this happened. I also don't know what crime the guy they're looking for committed, and whether they believed there was a risk of evidence being destroyed, someone getting harmed or their suspect escaping, it's safe to say though at the end of the day, even if you don't want to help police do the barest minimum to establish their elimination criteria and remove you from the suspect list, you can still politely deal with them - walking on them, holding anything metal behind your back and throwing them off when they're trying to cuff you is a bad idea and likely to result in tazing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2017, 11:27:49 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SZBfmqv.png)

Expert opinions are as of this year, confused

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on January 21, 2017, 04:35:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2017, 11:27:49 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SZBfmqv.png)

Expert opinions are as of this year, confused

It sounded cooler when it was "Sun never sets on The British Empire!", not "Sunset for the Angloshpere?".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2017, 04:56:01 pm

Quote from: Kot on January 21, 2017, 04:35:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2017, 11:27:49 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/SZBfmqv.png)

Expert opinions are as of this year, confused

It sounded cooler when it was "Sun never sets on The British Empire!", not "Sunset for the Angloshpere?".

I agree, but look at the middle picture to find an answer why they're not the same

Anglosphere is held and maintained largely by and in accordance with the direction of US leadership. Effectively it is the world order of western English-speaking liberal democracies with extensive intelligence cooperation and held together by all of the nations involved having bilateral military cooperation with the USA. USA and Canada in the arctic. USA and UK in the Atlantic oceans, Mediterranean ocean, Red Sea and the Gulf of Persia. USA, Australia and New Zealand in the Pacific, Indian Ocean and South China Sea. In this manner the USA maintains its logistical reach and naval dominance everywhere, in return the other nations drastically increase their power with access to US tech and power, in addition to experience from joint military exercises and operations. Thus the Anglosphere is not led by England, and is not even formally a thing - instead being a representation of how nations of shared stock, culture and history have managed to end up in a network strategically joined by bilateral cooperation with the USA. The nature of this network means that if the USA were to wholly turn isolationist or Yellowstone Volcanoe explode, there would be very little capacity for the remaining nations to maintain the military cooperation at sea to much effective degree. Singapore, India and Malaysia also fit into all of this but the name doesn't seem fitting when it's just referring to some perfidious eternal Anglo spirit
It could also refer to Anglosaxon nations or English speaking nations across the world if it isn't confusing enough already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 22, 2017, 06:17:32 pm

I'm gonna ship some nuclear English-speaking families to the Middle East in order to form Anglo-Bubbles which, with time, will form Anglospheres.

That is how this works, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 22, 2017, 07:46:11 pm

I thought it was a round contraption used by fishermen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 23, 2017, 01:06:51 pm

Sadly that Monty Python joke doesn't work in English, I think.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on January 23, 2017, 04:24:20 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 23, 2017, 01:06:51 pm

Sadly that Monty Python joke doesn't work in English, I think.

it's a pun on angeln or an equivalent in Dutch isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 23, 2017, 04:27:02 pm

Angling / angler is english as well. But yeah, angeln in German, and hengelen in Dutch. Fishing is a general term, angling is fishing with a line and fish hook (angle).
It's an old germanic word. Basically angel = pointy (curved) pin. We call an insect stinger an 'angel' as well for example.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 23, 2017, 09:08:43 pm

'I taught the Saxons to fish - now they're called Fishin'-Saxons!'

The Dutch usage is strange to me. Here 'Angel' refers to the fishing rod, while the hook itself is just called, well, a hook.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 23, 2017, 09:18:59 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 23, 2017, 09:08:43 pm

'I taught the Saxons to fish - now they're called Fishin'-Saxons!'

The Dutch usage is strange to me. Here 'Angel' refers to the fishing rod, while the hook itself is just called, well, a hook.

Same here, the rod is called a hengel, the hook just a hook (haak). The verb is 'hengelen'. But the rod got it's name from the older word for curved hook / sharp pin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 07:55:55 am

Germony can into Ministry of Truth (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/fake-news-bundesinnenministerium-will-abwehrzentrum-einrichten-a-1127174.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2017, 07:58:07 am

The Lügenpresse must be silenced!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2017, 08:23:46 am

So, what power would that Abwehrzentrum gegen Desinformation gets? It's not clear and I can't access the paywall behind. Would they really get the power to censor news source as TempAcc implies?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 08:33:01 am

Wait, how are you getting trapped behind a paywall and I'm not?

I'll post the original german text here just in case, including links:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fake News
Innenministerium will Abwehrzentrum gegen Falschmeldungen einrichten

In der Debatte über Falschmeldungen im Internet prescht das Innenministerium vor: Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen will man eine Einrichtung im Kanzleramt aufbauen, die Desinformationskampagnen bekämpft.
Von Horand Knaup und Gerald Traufetter

Der Wahlkampf von Donald Trump in den USA wirkte wie ein Weckruf für die Berliner Politik. Kann es sein, dass eine russische Desinformationskampagne im Internet den republikanischen Präsidentschaftskandidaten ins Weiße Haus getragen hat? Seitdem treibt Bundesregierung und die Parteien die Frage um, ob Falschmeldungen auch die im nächsten Jahr anstehenden Wahlen in Deutschland manipulieren könnten.

Vergangene Woche dann überboten sich die Politiker mit Vorschlägen, welche Gesetze gegen sogenannte Fake News wirken könnten. Jetzt kommt nach SPIEGEL-Informationen aus dem Bundesinnenministerium (http://www.spiegel.de/thema/bundesinnenministerium/) ein neuer Vorschlag. Im Kampf gegen Falschnachrichten in den sozialen Netzwerken schlägt das Haus von Thomas de Maizière (CDU) vor, ein "Abwehrzentrum gegen Desinformation" einzurichten. (Lesen Sie hier die ganze Geschichte im neuen SPIEGEL (https://magazin.spiegel.de/SP/2016/52/148681475/index.html?utm_source=spon&utm_campaign=vorab).)

"Mit Blick auf die Bundestagswahl sollte sehr schnell gehandelt werden", schreiben die Beamten von Minister de Maizière in einem aktuellen Vermerk, der dem SPIEGEL vorliegt. Darin heißt es weiter: "Da der Schwerpunkt bei der Öffentlichkeitsarbeit liegt, sollte die Federführung für diese zu schaffende Bündelungseinheit beim Bundeskanzleramt (Bundespresseamt) angesiedelt werden", also der mehr als 500 Mitarbeiter großen Behörde von Angela Merkels Sprecher Steffen Seibert.

Besonders anfällig sollen Russlanddeutsche und Türkischstämmige sein

Als besonders anfällige Bevölkerungsgruppen hebt das Papier "Russlanddeutsche" sowie "türkischstämmige Menschen" hervor, bei denen eine "Intensivierung der politischen Bildungsarbeit" erfolgen solle.

Zudem legt das Bundesinnenministerium den Parteien nahe, sich noch vor den nächsten Landtagswahlen auf Grundregeln des Wahlkampfes und gegen den Einsatz von Social Bots und Fake News zu einigen. "Die Akzeptanz eines postfaktischen Zeitalters käme einer politischen Kapitulation gleich", schreiben die Beamten. (Lesen Sie hier die Hintergründe zum Phänomen der Fake News und der Situation in Deutschland (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/fake-news-in-deutschland-was-wir-ueber-das-phaenomen-wissen-a-1125498.html).)

Der Vorschlag aus dem Innenministerium dürfte für Kontroversen sorgen. Einerseits befürchten IT-Experten durch jegliche neuen Gesetze und andere Initiativen eine Gefahr für die Meinungsfreiheit. Ein "Zensurmonster" sah der Hauptgeschäftsführer des IT-Branchenverbandes Bitkom, Bernhard Rohleder, schon durch die Vorschläge von SPD-Fraktionschef Thomas Oppermann aufziehen (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/thomas-oppermann-plant-gesetz-gegen-fake-news-a-1126182.html). Außerdem dürfte der Regierung insbesondere von Rechtspopulisten der Vorwurf gemacht werden, sie wolle missliebige Informationen und Meinungen unterdrücken.

Dieses Thema stammt aus dem neuen SPIEGEL - ab Samstagmorgen erhältlich.

Was im neuen SPIEGEL steht, erfahren Sie immer samstags in unserem kostenlosen Newsletter DIE LAGE (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/newsletter-die-lage-a-1103484.html), der sechsmal in der Woche erscheint - kompakt, analytisch, meinungsstark, geschrieben von der Chefredaktion oder den Leitern unseres Hauptstadtbüros in Berlin.

The article doesn't go into great detail on the powers said ministry would have, all we can infer is that it'd have the power to label anything as misinformation and cut access to it, and apparently stuff that criticized the government is included in that definition of misinformation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2017, 08:37:12 am

Quote from: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 08:33:01 am

(Lesen Sie hier die ganze Geschichte im neuen SPIEGEL.)

This link lead to a paywall. My German is a bit rough, so I might have missed a couple part, but this article doesn't really describe what that center would do, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 08:48:00 am

:U, oh, the thing.

Do we have any Der Spiegel subscribers on board that could read it and give us a more detailed idea on the matter?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 24, 2017, 10:13:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 23, 2017, 04:27:02 pm

Angling / angler is english as well. But yeah, angeln in German, and hengelen in Dutch. Fishing is a general term, angling is fishing with a line and fish hook (angle).
It's an old germanic word. Basically angel = pointy (curved) pin. We call an insect stinger an 'angel' as well for example.

What's your Dutch/German word for the English word for angels (that is, winged minor deities)? Just wondering out of curiosity.

Quote from: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 08:48:00 am

:U, oh, the thing.

Do we have any Der Spiegel subscribers on board that could read it and give us a more detailed idea on the matter?

Not a Der Spiegel subscriber, but opening in new private window got around the paywall (ditto for NYT and WaPo). Fed the link to Google Translate (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fnetzpolitik%2Ffake-news-bundesinnenministerium-will-abwehrzentrum-einrichten-a-1127174.html&edit-text=&act=url). As Sheb said, it doesn't really explain what it would do, other than combat misinformation, but doesn't go into detail how. It also mentions that Russian-Germans and Turks/Turkish-Germans (well, it says Turkish speaking peoples) are vulnerable groups. While I can get how they might be vulnerable to propoganda, I don't see the point of targeting them when it's the whole of Germany that is at risk. Nobody here in the US AFAIK (outside of certain far-right wing circles perhaps) ever talked about targeting ethnic minorities for combating 'fake news'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2017, 10:17:33 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 24, 2017, 10:13:39 am

What's your Dutch/German word for the English word for angels (that is, winged minor deities)? Just wondering out of curiosity.

Engel in dutch, and in german as well. Different word root though (Classic Greek, ἄγγελος, messenger).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2017, 10:44:20 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 24, 2017, 10:13:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 23, 2017, 04:27:02 pm

Angling / angler is english as well. But yeah, angeln in German, and hengelen in Dutch. Fishing is a general term, angling is fishing with a line and fish hook (angle).
It's an old germanic word. Basically angel = pointy (curved) pin. We call an insect stinger an 'angel' as well for example.

What's your Dutch/German word for the English word for angels (that is, winged minor deities)? Just wondering out of curiosity.

Quote from: TempAcc on January 24, 2017, 08:48:00 am

:U, oh, the thing.

Do we have any Der Spiegel subscribers on board that could read it and give us a more detailed idea on the matter?

Not a Der Spiegel subscriber, but opening in new private window got around the paywall (ditto for NYT and WaPo). Fed the link to Google Translate (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fnetzpolitik%2Ffake-news-bundesinnenministerium-will-abwehrzentrum-einrichten-a-1127174.html&edit-text=&act=url). As Sheb said, it doesn't really explain what it would do, other than combat misinformation, but doesn't go into detail how. It also mentions that Russian-Germans and Turks/Turkish-Germans (well, it says Turkish speaking peoples) are vulnerable groups. While I can get how they might be vulnerable to propoganda, I don't see the point of targeting them when it's the whole of Germany that is at risk. Nobody here in the US AFAIK (outside of certain far-right wing circles perhaps) ever talked about targeting ethnic minorities for combating 'fake news'.

Because the nature of what we're worried is different. There has been fake news specifically targeted at Russo-German, the most famous exemple being the sotry of rape by migrant pushed by RT (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany) (Complete with complains by Lavrov that it wasn't being investigated).


____


In other news, the head of the French socialist primary admitted to messing up with the votes to produce higher participation rate and generate better headlines (http://www.marianne.net/primaire-gauche-ps-manipule-les-resultats-puis-plaide-connerie-100249423.html). It's not clear what exactly happened and they claim that the results of every voting place if public so the final results shouldn't change, but they apparently reported vote total by just taking the percentage obtained on a portions of the voting place and extrapolating to the number of vote they wanted to get overall.

The socialist primary has had much less success than the current right-wing primary, or the 2012 left primary and the socialist party, already dragged down by Hollande and faced with a challenger from teh center in Macron doesn't want to look like no one care about it anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2017, 11:24:42 am

Carbyn has announced he'd push for a yes vote and I don't see many Tories voting no on this, so it shouldn't change much.


____

In other news, it just transpired that the wife of presidential candidate François Fillion was paid as his parliamentary assistant whilenot doing anything, grabbing about 500.000 euros over 8 years.  (http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2017/01/24/penelope-fillon-etait-remunere-comme-attachee-parlementaire-fict/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2017, 02:30:37 pm

Bastard turned his wife into a tax-deductable asset.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2017, 03:34:36 pm

He's a firm believer in traditional marriage between a man and a source of embezzlement. This put him so far at the head of the "Candidate with parliamentary scandal", in front of Le Pen and her 300.000 euros in money from the European parliament.

Now, I wonder if the socialist will manage to beat them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2017, 08:07:48 am

Poortugal not allowed to take Iraqi refugees because favoritism, even though the refugees are being bullied by Sunni refugees (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-4155410/Portugal-offer-Iraqi-refugees-rebuffed-favoritism.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 25, 2017, 08:23:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2017, 08:07:48 am

Poortugal not allowed to take Iraqi refugees because favoritism, even though the refugees are being bullied by Sunni refugees (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-4155410/Portugal-offer-Iraqi-refugees-rebuffed-favoritism.html)

That's a misleading title. Greece don't want to let Portugal prioritize resettling Yazidis refugees currently in Greece because they're afraid that all Europeans countries will cherry-pick the refugees they are taking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2017, 08:35:19 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 25, 2017, 08:23:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2017, 08:07:48 am

Poortugal not allowed to take Iraqi refugees because favoritism, even though the refugees are being bullied by Sunni refugees (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-4155410/Portugal-offer-Iraqi-refugees-rebuffed-favoritism.html)

That's a misleading title. Greece don't want to let Portugal prioritize resettling Yazidis refugees currently in Greece because they're afraid that all Europeans countries will cherry-pick the refugees they are taking.

Do you know what favoritism means

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 25, 2017, 08:52:24 am

Well, in this case it's less than someone think it's immoral to play favourite and more than Greece don't want to let others pick up the "nice" refugees leaving it to deal with the Sunni.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 10:01:31 am

In today's news, yazidi refugees are fucked because the EU can't decide if saving yazidis from being murdered by muslims is discrimination or lack of discrimination
When reached for comment, portugal said "wat do?", greece said ">:C", ISIS said ":DDDD" and yazidis said "D:", more at eleven.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 11:57:24 am

The Yazidis suffer more misfortune by having the terrible judgment of being Christian. Who, lest we forget, can only persecute and not be persecuted. After all, [Horrible, unlikable bullshit church, Lower Bumblefuck, Bible Belt, USA] are speaking about persecution sometimes, during their lucid periods, which means, since all Christian movements through the world are the same and in the WBC spectrum, there is no persecution at all. Well, besides the persecution executed by them, naturally.
^{Why, yes, I do have quite the chip on my shoulder reguarding this phenomenon. Grumble grumble.}

Mind you, with the current state of the United Nations, they are jolly lucky that their suffering under Islamic rule has not been labelled as an exorcise in cultural enrichment...

I am quite "biased" (as much as one can reasonably be when it comes to matters like ethnic cleansing), of course, but the Yazidis ending up this horribly and irrevocably fucked because the "Ethnicities & Religions that are morally right" flow chart short cirquited again rather irritates me. The main irritant is that I think that the Islamic State and the movement it represents are, in the practical sense, identical to Nazism, in most things bar the tastes in beards. But it is not seen nor treated like Nazism would be, for some reason, even though they are so much alike, and about an equal threat to civilisation, the kind of civilisation worth having. It is awfully unfair, and the fact that it continues to trip up the Yazidis, even though it's been five or so bloody buggery years of this palaver now, is not surprising at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 26, 2017, 11:57:35 am

I don't think that's what happening, if you refer to the ones in Greece. Portugal is trying to call dibs on the yazidi because if EU decides for quota based redistribution (as Germany, Greece are now pushing) countries wouldn't, nor shouldn't, get a chance to pick. This way they can claim they have done their part already, while leaving behind the bulk of troublemakers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 12:00:00 pm

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 26, 2017, 12:04:05 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 12:00:00 pm

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

if the quota are built using random picks for distributing family groups they'd get to save face while preventing the border nations to pay the social price.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 11:57:24 am

The Yazidis suffer more misfortune by having the terrible judgment of being Christian.

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 03:58:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 11:57:24 am

The Yazidis suffer more misfortune by having the terrible judgment of being Christian.

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

I am dreadfully misinformed, it would seem. Strange, but thank you for the correction. I was under the impression that it was a smaller sect, with Zoroastrian connections rather than being an entirely different group entirely. Very fascinating.
Dear, oh dear, that makes their situation even worse. They have had a terrible fortune, the poor sods. I can imagine that, not being one of the main three faiths, they are effectively the region's chew toy. Particularly if IS cannot even be bothered with that protection racket charade for their count.

Again, thank you. That was quite illuminating.

Quote from: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 12:00:00 pm

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

It is odd. Very odd. I understand that doing some sorting and processing can sound unpalatable, but it ought to be in everyone's best interest, all together. I simply do not think that a Moroccan has the same need for asylum in an European state as a Syrian, from a vulnerable minority group. Not to mention, doing some elementary sorting and registering means that you can avoid situations in which he is left alone in a hostile group.
It is a fairytale, this idea that all migrants are all the same type, with the same need, the same intention and, let it be stated, the same worth. That is, in terms of willingness to adapt and behave. It is a tale that does not do anyone any good, either. It simplifies things, no doubt, but that is the last thing that is needed. Too much is already sacrificed because of short-term "goodness" that is an irresponsible ersatz for what would be the good but difficult things to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 26, 2017, 05:48:46 pm

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 07:46:44 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 26, 2017, 05:48:46 pm

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

Well, yes, the doors are not entirely wide open with no processing at all. The question is, is it very effective? I can only speak from what I see, but it does not seem particularly waterproof. It also seems very impopular in some opinion circles, for the reason that I had a grumble about: the simplified idea of the refugee and a very simplified idea of what is the best thing to do.

I think I have caused rather the misunderstanding, though. It was a very general grumble, so from now on, directly on the topic directly reguarding the Portugese business: As far as I can see, they want to fulfill their asylum obligation rather à la carte. Greece, and no doubt the other more decidedly frontline member states, are not very thrilled. It is understandable, for no one wants to be left with a major share of the difficult cases, while the neighbours snatch up all the easier ones. It would be particularly sore for Greece, in this case.
I am unsure. On the one hand, it would not be particularly fair if some member states could pick and mix as they pleased, while others could not. On the other hand, a sovereign nation ought to have at least some say and control in which people they will accept. I would also imagine that a special asylum-scheme like it would not be a terribly bad idea when it comes to smaller ethnic groups likely to be victimised by other majority migrants. Of course, negotiating who will host them is another exorcise entirely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rolepgeek on January 27, 2017, 01:51:42 am

Equal-share proportional to population is the simplest solution. Equality between sovereign nations, much like equality between individuals, is often the best way to resolve such disputes. If nations agree to trade some share of refugees amongst each other, they can, but equal shares as a starting point, and sucking it up if you feel like that's somehow unfair, is rather the default, yeah?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 27, 2017, 02:51:10 am

Quote from: Silverthrone on January 26, 2017, 07:46:44 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 26, 2017, 05:48:46 pm

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

Well, yes, the doors are not entirely wide open with no processing at all. The question is, is it very effective? I can only speak from what I see, but it does not seem particularly waterproof. It also seems very impopular in some opinion circles, for the reason that I had a grumble about: the simplified idea of the refugee and a very simplified idea of what is the best thing to do.

Well, yeah, due process make everything hard. Notably, it's quite difficult to deport those that had their asylum application rejected.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 27, 2017, 09:58:52 am

Quote from: Rolepgeek on January 27, 2017, 01:51:42 am

Equal-share proportional to population is the simplest solution. Equality between sovereign nations, much like equality between individuals, is often the best way to resolve such disputes. If nations agree to trade some share of refugees amongst each other, they can, but equal shares as a starting point, and sucking it up if you feel like that's somehow unfair, is rather the default, yeah?

And an immediate outcry arose from the poorer countries, "why not equal-share proportional to national wealth?  Just because we have more people doesn't mean we have more money." :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 27, 2017, 10:19:00 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

As a point of information, IS is not letting Christians live with Jizya tax, that's what the moderates are doing. IS is just killing them or forcibly converting their daughters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 27, 2017, 10:50:55 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 27, 2017, 10:19:00 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

As a point of information, IS is not letting Christians live with Jizya tax, that's what the moderates are doing. IS is just killing them or forcibly converting their daughters

I4ve seen conflicting stuff on this, notably that IS allow the Jizya to be paid, but only in gold or something. Is there any good reporting on Christians/other religious minorities under IS rule?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 27, 2017, 10:58:25 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 27, 2017, 10:50:55 am

I4ve seen conflicting stuff on this, notably that IS allow the Jizya to be paid, but only in gold or something. Is there any good reporting on Christians/other religious minorities under IS rule?

I'm shocked that it isn't common knowledge tbh
2014, the genocide becomes common knowledge (https://web.archive.org/web/20140809003137/http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/isis-persecution-iraqi-christians-genocide-asylum)
2016, EU officially declares it genocide (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-%2f%2fEP%2f%2fNONSGML%2bMOTION%2bP8-RC-2016-0149%2b0%2bDOC%2bPDF%2bV0%2f%2fEN)

This is a more interesting read than the EU article, which is very legal  (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/magazine/is-this-the-end-of-christianity-in-the-middle-east.html?_r=0)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 27, 2017, 11:25:12 am

Well, I knoew it was bad, but I was looking for details of how it was bad. Thanks for the links, I'll hava a read.  :) 'Probably not going to be :) by the end of it)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2017, 05:27:38 am

Yeah I've only seen them do ironic jizya where they force them to give up all their hidden wealth and once the wealth runs out, kill them and take their daughters with forcible conversion. You'd think forcible conversion wouldn't be so bad because there's always the hope of escape and reconversion, but the penalty for leaving the faith is death so it's pretty shit with a hope of shit and an expectation of lifetime shit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2017, 06:29:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2017, 05:27:38 am

Yeah I've only seen them do ironic jizya where they force them to give up all their hidden wealth and once the wealth runs out, kill them and take their daughters with forcible conversion. You'd think forcible conversion wouldn't be so bad because there's always the hope of escape and reconversion, but the penalty for leaving the faith is death so it's pretty shit with a hope of shit and an expectation of lifetime shit

And even if they do escape they will probably be cast out by their Christian families because they lost their virginity to a muslim.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 28, 2017, 06:48:17 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2017, 05:27:38 am

ironic jizya

What a world we live in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2017, 08:36:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 28, 2017, 06:29:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2017, 05:27:38 am

Yeah I've only seen them do ironic jizya where they force them to give up all their hidden wealth and once the wealth runs out, kill them and take their daughters with forcible conversion. You'd think forcible conversion wouldn't be so bad because there's always the hope of escape and reconversion, but the penalty for leaving the faith is death so it's pretty shit with a hope of shit and an expectation of lifetime shit

And even if they do escape they will probably be cast out by their Christian families because they lost their virginity to a muslim.

They won't have a family
Cos ISIS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2017, 11:07:28 am

The IMF warns (again) that the Greek economy will completely implode if the EU does not waiver it's debts, and allow it to invest in it's economy and infrastructure again, instead of forcing budgetary restrictions.
According to them, if nothing changes, the Greek deficit will grow to be nearly 3 times the country's GDP in 2060

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 28, 2017, 11:14:36 am

It's 2017 and Greece is still fucked up. The national/local governments of Europe have shown complete ineptitude at dealing with problems. The Federal EU government should be given more power, why isn't it being given more power?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 28, 2017, 11:23:35 am

Quote from: Sergarr on January 28, 2017, 11:14:36 am

It's 2017 and Greece is still fucked up. The national/local governments of Europe have shown complete ineptitude at dealing with problems. The Federal EU government should be given more power, why isn't it being given more power?

A few key members have been fighting giving the EU any more powers. Fortunately, the chief resistor is now dead set of leaving, consequences be damned (But we'll save that for the Brexit thread). EU may actually become a lot more productive and efficient soon. Unfortunately, I still live in the chief resistor. For now.

At some point, governments will just have to say enough is enough. Large national debts have been forgiven and wiped before, considering just about every country is in at least some debt it's starting to all just look ridiculous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt) when everyone owes everyone else money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on January 28, 2017, 11:29:35 am

i think you guys have an articles of confederation type problem. you want things done that require a strong central control or a willingness to spend your effort but when it comes to actually giving it no one wants to front the money and effort and when the central administration attempts go get stuff everyone cry's "but my sovereignty" and nothing gets done in the end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on January 28, 2017, 03:23:27 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on January 28, 2017, 11:14:36 am

It's 2017 and Greece is still fucked up. The national/local governments of Europe have shown complete ineptitude at dealing with problems. The Federal EU government should be given more power, why isn't it being given more power?

Because The national/local governments of Europe == The Federal EU government?

That's the whole problem, whether you're looking at this from a nationalist or a unionist point of view.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2017, 06:03:53 pm

Privacy debate flames up in the Netherlands after a 68 year old woman committed suicide, after our national police tv showed footage of her stealing a wallet that was left unattended by another old lady. After her face showed up on the internet, it didn't take long for internet public to find her identity, and spam her with curses and death threats, after which she committed suicide.

Police and national tv are under fire now. Public opinion is that they should not have showed the woman without blurring her face, for such a minor crime. Police defends it's choice by saying it had exhausted other means of finding the woman's identity, so they felt they needed to show her face to let the public help track her down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2017, 07:49:43 pm

So, um, I guess Toady One is letting the AmeriPol thread in a timeout period? He's usually pretty quick with doing whatever he needs to do for locking a thread or if it needs to stay locked, he usually says so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on January 28, 2017, 08:00:03 pm

It's not always super quick if it's not cut and dried in the past few posts. Sometimes he needs to comb though the whole previous conversation and such, which can take a while sometimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2017, 08:03:07 pm

Quote from: Criptfeind on January 28, 2017, 08:00:03 pm

It's not always super quick if it's not cut and dried in the past few posts. Sometimes he needs to comb though the whole previous conversation and such, which can take a while sometimes.

It was only the last 12 or so posts that it flared up, there wasn't anything flaring up earlier.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:15:32 pm

Christ, this one feels so unnecessary. Other times I got it: People were passionate, got riled up, etc etc. This time it just seemed to me like dickishness among posters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2017, 08:18:23 pm

I'm not quite sure what prompted the lockdown either. I guess the last 3 posts were turning a bit personal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2017, 08:20:01 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:15:32 pm

Christ, this one feels so unnecessary. Other times I got it: People were passionate, got riled up, etc etc. This time it just seemed to me like dickishness among posters.

So, it wasn't you that locked it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:23:00 pm

Hell no. I would've given the guys involved in the last couple pages some shit, sure, but why lock it? It wasn't exactly boiling over. I guess Toady is playing it extra careful with the AmeriPol thread: If it's permalocked, the topics will just infect the rest of the board. That's why it is important to keep the containment area stable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2017, 08:28:15 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:23:00 pm

Hell no. I would've given the guys involved in the last couple pages some shit, sure, but why lock it? It wasn't exactly boiling over. I guess Toady is playing it extra careful with the AmeriPol thread: If it's permalocked, the topics will just infect the rest of the board. That's why it is important to keep the containment area stable.

It's possible that he recognized how controversial the whole thing is and just gave it a timeout rather than do any post deletion.

You're right about it infecting the rest of the board though, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 30, 2017, 07:13:28 am

So in other tasty news from the Fillion scandals: he tried to calm the thing by playing the simplicity card and claiming he only ever had one bank account in his local branch.

The bad news is that the Assemblée Nationale's rules impose that MPs have at least to bank accounts to keep salaries separate from funds intended to fund loce offices in the district.  (http://www.liberation.fr/elections-presidentielle-legislatives-2017/2017/01/29/fillon-jure-n-avoir-qu-un-compte-bancaire-mais-l-assemblee-en-exige-deux_1544881) So either he was lying, or he was funneling cash intended for other purpose to his personnal bank account in violation of the law.

This come on top of recent claims that he had his assistant refunds part of their salaries (about 1000 euros/month) to his personnal bank account.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 30, 2017, 06:37:45 pm

Imma go stand in front of a mirror and chant 'Macron'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 30, 2017, 06:46:00 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 30, 2017, 07:13:28 am

So in other tasty news from the Fillion scandals: he tried to calm the thing by playing the simplicity card and claiming he only ever had one bank account in his local branch.

The bad news is that the Assemblée Nationale's rules impose that MPs have at least to bank accounts to keep salaries separate from funds intended to fund loce offices in the district.  (http://www.liberation.fr/elections-presidentielle-legislatives-2017/2017/01/29/fillon-jure-n-avoir-qu-un-compte-bancaire-mais-l-assemblee-en-exige-deux_1544881) So either he was lying, or he was funneling cash intended for other purpose to his personnal bank account in violation of the law.

This come on top of recent claims that he had his assistant refunds part of their salaries (about 1000 euros/month) to his personnal bank account.

How is France reacting to this? I don't know the French internet very well, it's hard for me to find good results for this. It looks like Le Pen has 25%, Fillon 22%, and Macron 21%, but that's might be old. Is it likely that all or most of Fillon or Macron's voters would go to the other if their candidate lost and shut out FN, or is it a more mixed bag? Can Fillon be disqualified over this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 30, 2017, 06:57:03 pm

Well, Fillion can't be disqualified, but calls for him to step down are increasing.

This here is a good English-language summary of where the race is right now. (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-30/don-t-be-misled-by-polling-for-french-election-quicktake-q-a)

On thing they don't mention is that yesterday the socialist selected the leftist Hamon over the centrist Valls. (He is among other things proposing a further reduction of the working week (currently 32 hours), to look into a basic income (he wants it at 750 euros a month) and to tax robots.). This opens more room in the center (Valls could have cannibalized votes from Macron in the first round).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on January 30, 2017, 07:02:59 pm

France has a 32 hours working week? Woah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 30, 2017, 07:43:29 pm

sorry, currently 35. It's a typo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2017, 07:58:57 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:23:00 pm

Hell no. I would've given the guys involved in the last couple pages some shit, sure, but why lock it? It wasn't exactly boiling over. I guess Toady is playing it extra careful with the AmeriPol thread: If it's permalocked, the topics will just infect the rest of the board. That's why it is important to keep the containment area stable.

We should just build walls around Ameripol containment threads

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2017, 08:19:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2017, 07:58:57 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on January 28, 2017, 08:23:00 pm

Hell no. I would've given the guys involved in the last couple pages some shit, sure, but why lock it? It wasn't exactly boiling over. I guess Toady is playing it extra careful with the AmeriPol thread: If it's permalocked, the topics will just infect the rest of the board. That's why it is important to keep the containment area stable.

We should just build walls around Ameripol containment threads

And make the rest of the forum pay for it, ofcourse. It's gonna be huge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 30, 2017, 08:28:17 pm

Actually we already have that. It's called Toady.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 01, 2017, 05:21:00 am

Romania decriminalize official misconducts when the damage is less that ~47,000 USD.  (https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/01/31/world/europe/ap-eu-romania-prisoner-pardon.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0) Protests are all over the place, probably the biggest since 1989.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 01, 2017, 09:42:23 am

E: Confused Russia and Romania there for a second. Man, that would've changed WWII sooooo much...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 01, 2017, 10:17:05 am

Mighty Romania crush all beneath the might of Carpathian tanks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 01, 2017, 11:58:31 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 01, 2017, 09:42:23 am

E: Confused Russia and Romania there for a second.

Not only you, not only you... I was about to look out the window, before I realized my error.

E: Apparently French Muslims are voting Le Pen because "‘Politicians won’t change anything anyway" (http://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-surprise-muslim-islam-supporters-national-front-banlieues/). Wow.

RIP democracy, seems like you can't survive the advent of the disinformation age after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 01, 2017, 03:55:23 pm

Apparently Muslims aren't all this one Arab guy who all think the same, who would've guessed

Oh wait, we're gonna do the Bernie Bro thing. They just low information, we know what's best for them

Quote

    “If she wins, it will be a good thing. The left and right are all bastards. They promise things and they don’t deliver. Let’s vote for Le Pen and see what happens.” — Aubervilliers resident

HYPE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on February 01, 2017, 04:00:11 pm

DISTRUPTION HYPE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 01, 2017, 04:27:45 pm

The French don't do polling by religion, but I wouldn't make too much of a few anecdotes. If we look at the 2012 results, Le Pen seriously underperformed in the areas thos journalists visited.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 01, 2017, 04:30:55 pm

Can I still copyright "Le pen, du vin et du boursin"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 02, 2017, 03:36:43 am

You can try. Although that's a bit lamer than the bunch of right-wing MPs that organized regular "apéro saucisson vin rouge" (pork sausage and red wine snacks) to stick it to the muslims defend French value.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2017, 03:48:51 am

Why would an innocent word joke be lamer than a racist fuck initiative?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 02, 2017, 03:53:03 am

Because Le Pen is not pronounced anything like Le Pain.


The Penelopegate of Fillian is continuing and starting to erobde his lead in the polls. Polls for the first round are now 27% for Le Pen, 23% for Macron and 20% for Fillion. Excellent news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2017, 07:53:45 am

In an as of yet unique case, a charges have been pressed in the Netherlands against the Dutch bank Rabobank, and it's top management, accusing them of being accomplice to murder, and other crimes against humanity committed by the Mexican drugs cartel, prompted by a US investigation into moneylaundring of cartel money by a daughter company of the bank, Rabobank N.A., situated in Calexico, a US town near the border of Mexico.

The case is unique, because instead of just focussing on moneylaundry, the case is also about the effects on the Mexican population.
Criminal justice lawyer Göran Sluiter, who filed the case on behalf of SMX Collective, says: "moneylaundry is a crime with victims. Drug organisations are extremely violent, and moneylaundry is essential to their ability to function".
SMX Collective is an organisation which fights for human rights in Mexico, with one of it's founder's, Fernando Hernández, living in the Netherlands.

Sluiter and his clients decided not to wait for the results of the US investigation into the daughter company. They say they do this to prevent what happened during the Libor case from happening again.
Back then, the Rabobank was fined 774 million dollar for manipulating interest fees. However, when a criminal case was filed in the Netherlands, it was dismissed, because 'there has already been too much investigation into the matter, and there are juridical shortcomings in those other investigations'.
To prevent that argument from being used again, Sluiter decided to press charges now, and not wait for the results of the US investigation.

According to Hernández, financial institutions like the Rabobank play a key role in the success of the drug cartels. He has asked Sluiter to sue both the bank as institute, as well as it's senior staff (as natural persons), for being accomplice to murder, and crimes against humanity.

Sluiter: "the Rabobank must have known of the drug cartel's prescence. Despite this, they have closed their eyes. By knowingly laundrying criminal money, they have made themselves member of a criminal organisation".

Official Rabobank spokesman Eijpe refuses to answer the question whether Rabobank was aware of the prescence of drug cartels in Calexico. Former employees of Rabobank N.A. have not responded to interview requests.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/aanklacht-rabobank-medeplichtig-aan-moord-en-misdaden-drugskartels~a4456671/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/aanklacht-rabobank-medeplichtig-aan-moord-en-misdaden-drugskartels~a4456671/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 02, 2017, 08:18:48 am

The Council and Parliament reached a deal on wholesale data rate (the data rate that operators charges to other operators), clearing the way to the final suppression of roaming charges within the EU starting in June. (https://www.cnet.com/news/roaming-charges-travel-abroad-europe-calls-time/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 03, 2017, 04:39:42 am

That Fillion thing is getting tastier by the day. Now some French TV channel dug out an interview Penelope Fillion gave to the Sunday Telegraph in 2007 where she says "I've never been his assistant or anything like that" and "I don't take care of his communication".

Her lawyer, making an impressive act of bad faith is trying to claim the 45-minutes interview was taken "out of context".

Some on the right are trying to convince Fillion to step down, to be replaced by one of the front runner, Alain Juppé (Prime minister in the 90's, condemned to a deffered prison sentence and some year of ineligibility for paying party workers with funds from the City of Paris) or Sarkozy (Former president, hasn't actually be condemned for anything yet, but is being charged in at least a couple case of corruption, illegal campaign financing and the like).

Fillion has vowed not to step down, and claim the decision to press charges are politically motivated (he might have a small point: prosecutors in France are notable dependent on the executive), but then the whole thing was broken out by newspapers in the first place, and the case against him seems so strong that it'd be strange if it wasn't investigated. However, the scandal of corruption goes well beyond Fillion, is not so much an extreme case as a representative of the way the French right-wing operate in Parliament. At least a dozen MPs (http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/penelope-fillon-une-dizaine-de-parlementaires-veulent-changer-de-collaborateurs_1873298.html) have decided to change assistants since the start of Penelopegate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 03, 2017, 04:51:37 am

A French soldier guarding the Louvre had to shoot a person trying to attack him with a knife. The man has been brought to hospital with critical injuries.
A police source told French media that the man tried to enter the museum's underground store with a briefcase.

The French minister of internal affairs Tweeted that it was a 'serious incident'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 03, 2017, 01:34:01 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 03, 2017, 09:41:55 am

Surprised that you didn't mention reports about the man apparently shouting 'Allahu Ackbar' (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/louvre-evacuated-soldier-attack-armed-police-paris-art-gallery-gunfire-france-attack-terror-a7560721.html).

I wonder if that'll affect the election polls.

Probably won't, but it will undermine the French state further

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 03, 2017, 04:49:48 pm

While halfway through the day, media reported that the man's nationality was still unknown, and that he was no longer in life-threatening condition, it has now become known that the man is a 29 year old Egyptian who lives in Dubai, who had come to France on a tourist visum in januari.
His condition has been scaled up to life-threatening again. He has been hit by 5 bullets, the majority of which hit the gut area.
So at least 3 gutshots. I'd say expect him to die.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 03, 2017, 08:22:44 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 03, 2017, 04:49:48 pm

While halfway through the day, media reported that the man's nationality was still unknown, and that he was no longer in life-threatening condition, it has now become known that the man is a 29 year old Egyptian who lives in Dubai, who had come to France on a tourist visum in januari.
His condition has been scaled up to life-threatening again. He has been hit by 5 bullets, the majority of which hit the gut area.
So at least 3 gutshots. I'd say expect him to die.

Don't underestimate the miracle of modern medicine! Though yeah, a gut shot would be pretty bad.

Also, he's an Egyptian, therefore, we must ban all refugees from Egypt! (just playing Trumpian logic here).

Anyway, those 81 Dutch parties have been trimmed down to 28 (http://www.politico.eu/article/6-fringe-parties-in-the-dutch-election-netherlands-denk-artikel-1-geenpeil-piratenpartij-vnl-voor-nederland-niet-stemmers/). The article lists a couple of fringe parties, including one that is an attempt at representing the 'stay at home' or 'none of the above' vote.

Having such a protest party would be interesting here in the US, especially given our FPTP system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Flying Dice on February 04, 2017, 04:05:15 pm

The Louvre today. (https://youtu.be/anEuw8F8cpE?t=12)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 04, 2017, 10:19:41 pm

Any French Bay12ers around? I know Sheb is Belgian, though I don't know if he's of Walloonian or Flandersian (Flanderian?).

Marine Le Pens plan to FAITES DE NOUVEAU LA FRANCE! (http://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pens-plan-to-make-france-great-again/),  or the highights of the 144 points anyway. I fed 'MAKE FRANCE GREAT AGAIN!' to google translate, so, pardon me if the translation is off.

In the 'national identity' portion, what is meant by the 'national novel'?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 04, 2017, 10:22:01 pm

What Fillion thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 04, 2017, 10:23:31 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on February 04, 2017, 10:22:01 pm

What Fillion thing?

Huh? The link is of Marine Le Pen, not Fillion.

edit: Oh, I guess you meant Sheb.

Basically, from my understanding, Fillion had his wife as his secretary and paid her like 500,000 euro a month, but she never worked a single day as his secretary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 04, 2017, 10:23:44 pm

Sheb's Walloonian, so I guess he's the guy you want to talk to.

E: From context I'd say it means 'national narrative'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 06, 2017, 03:21:53 am

Yeah, Fillion hired his wife a his parliamentary assistant to pocket the salary. Hiring relatives isn't illegal, provided they do actual work. But she never did anything, and is on record saying so. He also hired his children at some point. In addition, some billionaires paid her vast sums for a few texts to a magazine (She was paid, like, 50 bucks a letter), which looks a lot like a bribe to her husband.

Fillion ran on a persona of personnal probity, especially against Sarkozy, so it's damaging his poll standing a lot.

That "national novel" got me a tad confused, because the Le Pen website does speak of "Roman national", which is a term I didn't know. It does broadly mean "national narrative", but there seems to be a distinction in France between "récit national" (which is pushed by people like Fillion) and "roman national", which both translate as narratives. Both seems to mean an idea of teaching history as a way to justify the existence and greatness of France, but roman has stronger implications, and seems to refers especially to the way history was thaught in the firt part of the 20th century, presenting the country's history as a long line of Great Deed done by Great Men.

Also significant is the " le refus des repentances d’État qui divisent" in the same sentence: the "refusal of state apologies that divides". Basically stop acknowledging that France ever did anything wrong and push a narrative of French greatness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 06, 2017, 04:57:56 am

Le Pen to the left of me, Putin to the right of me, here I am stuck in the middle with EU~ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZkH2pWwK4)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2017, 05:44:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 06, 2017, 03:21:53 am

Yeah, Fillion hired his wife a his parliamentary assistant to pocket the salary. Hiring relatives isn't illegal, provided they do actual work. But she never did anything, and is on record saying so. He also hired his children at some point. In addition, some billionaires paid her vast sums for a few texts to a magazine (She was paid, like, 50 bucks a letter), which looks a lot like a bribe to her husband.

50 bucks a letter is not a vast sum. It's super, super cheap. Try finding an lawyer or accountant that will write a letter for you for a mere 50 bucks. Did you mean 50 thousand maybe?
Or did you mean letter as in abcdefghij etc letters?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 06, 2017, 05:49:52 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 06, 2017, 05:44:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 06, 2017, 03:21:53 am

Yeah, Fillion hired his wife a his parliamentary assistant to pocket the salary. Hiring relatives isn't illegal, provided they do actual work. But she never did anything, and is on record saying so. He also hired his children at some point. In addition, some billionaires paid her vast sums for a few texts to a magazine (She was paid, like, 50 bucks a letter), which looks a lot like a bribe to her husband.

50 bucks a letter is not a vast sum. It's super, super cheap. Try finding an lawyer or accountant that will write a letter for you for a mere 50 bucks. Did you mean 50 thousand maybe?
Or did you mean letter as in abcdefghij etc letters?

Context is important, he mentioned that these were texts sent to a magazine, of which there was a very huge ratio of cash-to-characters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 06, 2017, 06:17:09 am

Yeah, I meant characters. She published two book reviews in La Revue des deux mondes, a formerly famous litterary magazine, but who know only has about 5000 readers. For her work over a period of two years, she received a monthly salary of about 5000 euros.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2017, 04:58:24 pm

Geert Wilders reached a new low, by photoshopping a picture of a sharia for britain protest to make it look like the leader of the pragmatist democratic party (D66), Alexander Pechtold, was part of that protest holding a sharia sign, claiming it was a protest in the Netherlands, and sending the picture to his Twitter followers.

Pechtold rebuked at first by referring to a demonstration organized by Wilders, with neonazis attending, and said "sadly, the neo-nazis at his manifestation were not photoshopped".
Pechtold said somewhat later that he is considering pressing criminal charges against Wilders, if the public prosecutor doesn't press charges first, for incitement.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/den-haag-fel-om-tweet-wilders-met-bewerkte-foto-pechtold-als-shariah-aanhanger~a4458633/
https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/828502461421850624

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 07, 2017, 04:26:43 am

Wouldn't that be libel rather than incitement?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 07, 2017, 08:14:12 am

You'd think so, but apparently Pechtold thinks that the picture, combined with the political climate, Wilders' rhetoric and the amount of death threats Pechtold receives does make it incitement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 07, 2017, 09:43:54 am

That seems like an incredibly light sentence, though not entirely unexpected, unfortunately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 07, 2017, 10:00:08 am

Sweden is like watching the Hindenburg set forth on its voyage

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 07, 2017, 10:18:29 am

The article says his age is 18, and he was 17 when he did it, so he was judged as a minor.

The worst part is that according to that aryicle he's since then raped another girl but wasn't even sentenced for rape then, just molestation/ assault  (I am unsure what it translates as, legally speaking).

The paper, by the way, is a reputable one. Not a high quality journalism one, but not British tabloid level either.Here is the same things reported by a higher standard paper (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/fangelse-for-valdtakt-pa-skoltoalett/), except the part about the second trial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 07, 2017, 10:27:44 am

Based on excerpts of some "family book", whatever that is, from Syria, yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 07, 2017, 12:00:13 pm

Ugh, you guys need to toughen up your justice system a bit. I'm not for super long sentence in general, but this seems ridiculous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 06:46:08 am

Trump's ban was totally retarded, even if you oppose immigration, you'd still want businessmen, tourists, scientists, students and the like to be able to come over. Poll about a "Trump style ban" shows a majority of Briton opposing. (http://news.sky.com/story/34-of-britons-would-back-trump-style-ban-in-uk-sky-poll-10749195)

Plus, I also don't remember seeing any news article claiming that "everyone up and down the country was foaming at the mouth at Trump's ban and hated the idea of him coming over for a state visit". Plenty of people opposed the idea, plenty of people supported it (as shown by the two petitions things).

So it's only "fake news" by the Trump standard that you disagree with it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on February 08, 2017, 07:29:51 am

Covenant is right on the money mentioning that the survey was done using the term "Trump style ban". Since it is still widely known as a muslim ban (even though it isn't), it really opens some eyes when so many people are in support of it.

Which is not suprising. When you have a positive view of subject X being thrown at people, saying how subject X is great and good for everyone and etc, and then the effects of subject X on society turn out to be largely the opposite, its pretty natural to have such a backlash.

And so we're faced with one of the oldest social tropes: there's an abyss between the will of the political elite and the will of the people. Anyone not constantly carrying a strong political stance on their brains can see this happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 07:55:42 am

Trump should learn from Sweden's feminist government (https://archive.is/6dkIo)
t. Sweden
Tfw (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/713032/Sweden-chaos-no-go-zones-increased-police-lose-control) you (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/641223/Swedish-police-being-ATTACKED-as-they-struggle-in-NO-GO-ZONES-as-migrant-crime-rockets) kill  (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)your (http://www.thelocal.se/20170101/swedish-police-brave-rockets-a-grenade-and-an-axeman-on-new-years) country (http://www.thelocal.se/20170127/malmo-police-chief-help-us)

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 06:31:18 am

And yet to hear the news here, everyone up and down the country was foaming at the mouth at Trump's ban and hated the idea of him coming over for a state visit.

Fake news?

Could just be that people aren't gonna speak out against their bosses opinions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 08, 2017, 08:35:20 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 07:55:42 am

Trump should learn from Sweden's feminist government (https://archive.is/6dkIo)
t. Sweden
Tfw (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/713032/Sweden-chaos-no-go-zones-increased-police-lose-control) you (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/641223/Swedish-police-being-ATTACKED-as-they-struggle-in-NO-GO-ZONES-as-migrant-crime-rockets) kill  (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)your (http://www.thelocal.se/20170101/swedish-police-brave-rockets-a-grenade-and-an-axeman-on-new-years) country (http://www.thelocal.se/20170127/malmo-police-chief-help-us)

Feminism caused none of the problems of those links.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 08:38:06 am

Quote from: scriver on February 08, 2017, 08:35:20 am

Feminism caused none of the problems of those links.

Feminism =/= Feminist government

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 07:19:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 06:46:08 am

Trump's ban was totally retarded, even if you oppose immigration, you'd still want businessmen, tourists, scientists, students and the like to be able to come over.

And yet he was elected on a platform of enforcing it, so retarded or not, it seems to be what people want.

It seems the American people wanted a president who shits on everything and wipes his arse on the constitution, and they sure as hell got one. Sixty-two million flies can't be wrong: shit tastes good.

Tell me, Cov: If western traditions are the most valuable thing there is, why is it that people in your camp apparently have zero respect for such traditions as constitutionalism, rule of law, separation of powers, democracy, civil rights, etc. etc.? Some traditions are worth preserving, but others have to be trampled down because... what? What "tradition" could possibly be more important than the fundamental institutions of democratic society? Hmm...  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

It seems the American people wanted a president who shits on everything and wipes his arse on the constitution, and they sure as hell got one. Sixty-two million flies can't be wrong: shit tastes good.

It is not a clever idea to call your enemies maggots taking wing as flies. Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

Tell me, Cov: If western traditions are the most valuable thing there is, why is it that people in your camp apparently have zero respect for such traditions as constitutionalism, rule of law, separation of powers, democracy, civil rights, etc. etc.? Some traditions are worth preserving, but others have to be trampled down because... what? What "tradition" could possibly be more important than the fundamental institutions of democratic society? Hmm...  ???

In the UK, upon the ascent of Theresa May, one peculiar quote will always tickle my funny bone. It said: Theresa May stands for justice, not social justice, and this was supposed to be an indictment of her character.
Both camps see rule of law, separation of powers, democracy and civil rights worthy of upholding, but one camp has dehumanized the other as insectoid and being motivated by evil and stupidity. They represent traditions to be trampled down :/

The question stands in reverse. Why would anyone seek to preserve any traditions when they find the very concept of tradition hostile? We all laugh at Sweden because Sweden is a mirror unto our own worlds. When the Swedish government says Swedes have no culture, that Sweden does not belong to Swedes, that Swedes must integrate into migrants, we see what our countries are walking towards. A joke, the very best and tragic kind.

Quote

The former deputy chief of the serious crimes division wrote: “I’m so f***** tired. What I’m writing here isn’t politically correct. But I don’t care.
“Our pensioners are on their knees, the schools are a mess, healthcare is an inferno, the police is completely destroyed. Everyone knows why, but none dares or wants to say why.”

Sweden is us (https://archive.is/nwmR6), and as we gaze into Sweden, Sweden gazes back to us

My last point is that all of the traditions you listed are good, but they are all wholly related to the administrative functions of government. Not a single thing you listed involved people's traditions, normal people who merely want to cultivate their own long line of customs, styles and beliefs from their progenitors to their successors. Perhaps just an accidental omission, perhaps not - but our camp of maggots, if they can be generalized, do not believe that the purpose of the nation is to uphold the state, but the purpose of the state is to uphold the nation, and the nation is the people united by their common descent, history and culture. Civic traditions are very valuable in the practical day to day running of things, but the question always at the end of the day is to be or not to be, and bureaucracy provides no such answer. Trample down what makes your nation a nation, you become like Sweden, where rule of law, democracy, civil rights, constitutions etc. fall apart under the ill-repair of a broken people. And Sweden is us

An open minded approach could perhaps better help you understand why these flies are as they are. A simple contest of "no you're hypocrites" does not get us anywhere, especially when our values are so different. This is only to your benefit; just look at the vast resources that were available to Remain and Clinton, and how both were defeated because their camps had no interest in learning how their opponents thought, except to denigrate them as cartoonish villains and low-information fools. We all know the Sun Tzu quote

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 09:44:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 07:19:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 06:46:08 am

Plus, I also don't remember seeing any news article claiming that "everyone up and down the country was foaming at the mouth at Trump's ban and hated the idea of him coming over for a state visit". Plenty of people opposed the idea, plenty of people supported it (as shown by the two petitions things).

Do you watch UK television and news programmes daily? Because I do, and that was very much the narrative the media has been pushing. 'It's ridiculous, it's so racist against Muslims' was oft-repeated. Yet according to this data, people do in fact want to specifically target Muslim immigration.

No, I don't. And saying it's ridiculous is not the same as saying everyone think it's ridiculous. Which, well, I searched for article addressing that point and the best of those I could find was the sky poll thing.

Saying, "I don't want people from Muslim-majority countries immigrating" is less extreme than saying "I want to ban all people from those seven majority muslim country to even step in my country, even if they are just visiting". The Trump ban was ill though out, badly planned, doesn't really make sense (why target those countries specifically?) and generally made the Trump team look like dumbass. I think some GOP grandees are even on record as saying that Trump sucked for managing to make a popular policy (no more refugees) into an unpopular one due to terrible implementation.

BTW, I love how you think that Trump is popular and was elected to enforce the ban, but is so reviled that slapping his name on a ban apparently is enough to diminish support by 40 percentage point. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:51:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 09:44:17 am

Saying, "I don't want people from Muslim-majority countries immigrating" is less extreme than saying "I want to ban all people from those seven majority muslim country to even step in my country, even if they are just visiting".

They're about equally extreme imo
One discriminates on religion another on nationality

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 09:53:17 am

Nah, both are about people from Muslim-majority country, not Muslims per se. One is against them permanently settling, the other (the Trump one) is about them even soiling your clean soil with their dirty muslim feet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 09:56:13 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 08:58:59 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 07:19:02 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 06:46:08 am

Trump's ban was totally retarded, even if you oppose immigration, you'd still want businessmen, tourists, scientists, students and the like to be able to come over.

And yet he was elected on a platform of enforcing it, so retarded or not, it seems to be what people want.

It seems the American people wanted a president who shits on everything and wipes his arse on the constitution, and they sure as hell got one. Sixty-two million flies can't be wrong: shit tastes good.

Tell me, Cov: If western traditions are the most valuable thing there is, why is it that people in your camp apparently have zero respect for such traditions as constitutionalism, rule of law, separation of powers, democracy, civil rights, etc. etc.? Some traditions are worth preserving, but others have to be trampled down because... what? What "tradition" could possibly be more important than the fundamental institutions of democratic society? Hmm...  ???

Are you about to start singing Sumer Is Icumen In and whip out the flaming torches? Because that's a hell of a strawman.

Sorry to say it, but Trump is a real flesh-and-blood critter, not a man of straw. If you want to argue that the US president is a bag filled with dry cereal stalks, you're going to need some damn good citations. I mean seriously, m8: The Orange Idiot is spewing unconstitutional EOs in every direction and calling his own judiciary a fraud. The burden of proof is on anyone trying to defend his actions.

But never mind the Murkans, this is Europol -- how about British right-wingers, like you? You're the one who said that old people should be denied the right to free healthcare because muh taxes or something. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160749.msg7187352#msg7187352) Much tradition, such respect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 10:04:11 am

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 09:54:37 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 09:44:17 am

Saying, "I don't want people from Muslim-majority countries immigrating" is less extreme than saying "I want to ban all people from those seven majority muslim country to even step in my country, even if they are just visiting".

'even if they are just visiting... for the next 90 days'.

When you don't conveniently leave out that aspect, I think it's hard to argue the former is less extreme than the latter.

Yeah, that's a decent point actually. Although I wonder how Trump will walk down from his ban. He could just slap on a couple of extra useless measure and say that now it's extreme vetting (the same way he "fixed" the F-35), but I have issue seeing that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 10:35:03 am

We have an healthcare thread?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

I can confirm Master scriver's summary. It seems an awfully lenient sentence, even for a minor. Nonetheless, the matter was brought to court, which is at least something, although it is small comfort for the victims, or indeed any of us. With the current crisis within the police (summary: unpopular and somewhat misguided re-organisation and dreadful working conditions is sapping the force quite fiercely. Support your local Uncle Blue; they need it), an awful lot of cases tends to slip through the net.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 07, 2017, 10:00:08 am

Sweden is like watching the Hindenburg set forth on its voyage

I do sometimes feel as if I am feebly dangling on a tether rope trailing behind it. But I shall never let go.

Quote from: Sheb on February 07, 2017, 12:00:13 pm

Ugh, you guys need to toughen up your justice system a bit. I'm not for super long sentence in general, but this seems ridiculous.

It is. Rehabilitation can, indeed, be taken too far, when the concerns for a perpetrator eclipse the concern for a victim. In general, it seems as if the idea of a sentencing being a punishment and deterrent has largely been discarded. Personally, I would like repeat criminals of this type to be exiled, without delay. It would be better for everyone, including those migrants that intend to, and do, behave. It is a question of wheat and chaff, and avoiding the matter of sorting it does no good for anyone. I know that I harp on it quite often, but wide open doors does not help anyone, and it is not the generous, enlightened act of humanity that it seems. Taking a modicum of responsibility for one's migration, even and particularly when it is hard, knotty and morally difficult, is better for everyone.

-However-, in regard of all this, another rape case in Sweden has recently gone through court, and has ended quite differently. Indeed, Expressen has, against the usual custom, gone so far as to reveal their names and published pictures of the two men. Both are fairly well-known in some cirquits, one being an influential party arranger, the other a wealthy restaurant owner. Well, were. They have now been found guilty for several cases of rape, which includes minors (16). The event manager was sentenced to nine years, the (now former) restaurant ownerrecieved six. Both of them have appealed.
It it impossible to say how long a sentence actually will be, or how the appeal will be handled. However, their businesses and reputations have been soundly scuttled, so there is at least that.


Now then, from sex crime to Nazi terrorism: the group calling itself the Nordic Resistance Movement (Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen) has been up to quite a few tricks lately in and around the city of Gothenburg.

11th of November: a small explosive charge detonates and destroys the windows of a café and bookshop, run by an autonomous left-wing group. No injuries.
5th of January: an explosive charge severely injures a custodian outside of a migrant quarter, as he is emptying the bins.
25th of January: an unexploded, but live, charge is found by a camping ground that has been repurposed as a temporary transit quarter for migrants. The police manages to defuse it.

Three men (who are also, oddly, now named and pictured by Expressen, which is even more uncommon with merely suspects) have since been arrested and are now under investigation. All of them are connected to the Nordic Resistance Movement and the white power environment in general. It is possible that the men will be put under charges of terrorism, depending on how the investigation continues. Besides property damage and one severely injured man, it could have gone an awful lot worse, and I do hope that with the most ambitious types in the district under lock and key, there might be some peace and quiet.
The NRM claims that it, 'as an organisation', have not carried out these bombings. What that means is not particularly difficult to figure out.

This has lead to some interesting opinion soup. One can make the point that this would be treated as a much bigger and louder affair if the perpetrators were Islamic terrorists, rather than Nazis, which does strike me as true, there probably would be more about it if they were. On the other hand, there are calls to re-evaluate whether or not Nazism should be legal; it would be a breach against the freedom of opinion, but it would counter a very real threat from a radical, anti-democratic faction that wishes to topple the current state through force, goes the arguement. The same would probably never be expressed regarding radical Islamism, even though it is quite indistinguishable from Nazism on that particular count. (Indeed, beards seems to have become fashionable in the Nazi cirquits, as well).

As a very unfortunate aside, this movement have also, at times, appeared at bath houses to act as sort of volunteer security guards (that is, to speak plainly, to keep the gropey Afghans in line), which has caused some quarrels here and there. However, since sexual harrassment incidents seem to become rather common in public baths, one wonders why nothing seems to be done to fill the gap that they are evidently trying to plug themselves. It is a very unfortunate affair when Nazi militias are, in effect, providing an important social service.
Speaking of, they are at least not as bone-idle as the chaps in the Soldier of Odin-gangs. What they are doing with their time, I do not know, but it does not seem to be patroling the streets and keeping them safe. If they wanted to do some good for the community, there are plenty of areas in the city centre where they could do some good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 11:42:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

We all laugh at Sweden because Sweden is a mirror unto our own worlds. When the Swedish government says Swedes have no culture, that Sweden does not belong to Swedes, that Swedes must integrate into migrants, we see what our countries are walking towards. A joke, the very best and tragic kind.

Spoiler alert: there are people here that are from countries that are definitely not walking towards this direction. One of them is, in fact, me.

Then again, I don't really laugh at Sweden, so you could still be technically correct!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on February 08, 2017, 01:51:23 pm

While not quite that well related to the discussion, it is good to see that there may yet be a chance for the NOT MURDERING EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU camp. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OkwP47WYHQ)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 08, 2017, 01:59:49 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on February 08, 2017, 01:51:23 pm

While not quite that well related to the discussion, it is good to see that there may yet be a chance for the NOT MURDERING EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU camp. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OkwP47WYHQ)

Interesting. Can recommend watching.

EDIT: In other news, a pilot by the Dutch police, in which they used police bodycam footage to confront youth with their drunk behaviour in the weekend nightlife, seems to be an effective way of educating parents.

The footage is shown to the youngsters together with their parents.
Parents who participated in the pilot say that only when they saw the footage, of their children lying in a puddle of vomit, and assaulting the police officers or paramedics that tried helping them up, did they realize how serious the situation was, instead of some minor mischief not to worry about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 09:56:13 am

The burden of proof is on anyone trying to defend his actions.

If you have an argument, the burden of proof is on you. It should be obvious that all things must be proven, being left-wing is no substitute for facts; if your argument is obvious then it will be easy to prove and all will be in agreement

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 09:56:13 am

But never mind the Murkans, this is Europol -- how about British right-wingers, like you? You're the one who said that old people should be denied the right to free healthcare because muh taxes or something. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160749.msg7187352#msg7187352) Much tradition, such respect.

I am British right-wingers like Covenant (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160749.msg7189942#msg7189942) and I hold slightly different opinions, it is too simplistic to simply portray your opponents as the devil trying to kill old people. The NHS is currently undergoing monumental strain, part of it is neolib attempts at privatisation, or immigration, but by far the largest is that the cost to cure sickness is being far outstripped by muh taxpayers. Part of it is the rising obesity of the country which is monumental, the worst in Europe, the other part is that old people get sick easier and there will be a point where there are more retired pensioners than affluent young taxpayers. Thus if the NHS is to survive, difficult choices will have to be made. I think it would be preferable even to land great debt upon future generations than to deliberately cut NHS service for old people, since growing old is not a choice, I would much rather see people who smoke or eat too much pay for their own healthcare, and if needs be pass the debt cost of caring for the old onto future generations. I once read a heartbreaking letter from a man who wrote to one of my local hospitals, he was completely upset his mother had gone blind for lack of treatment, placed at the back of the queue of smokers and obesity patients, who really should know better :|
Point being as is we have three options for funding. Pass the costs to future generations, cut NHS coverage or cut pensions. Maybe the future will provide nicer alternatives

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

I do sometimes feel as if I am feebly dangling on a tether rope trailing behind it. But I shall never let go.

Well I always say it's never too late for damage control

Just look at climate change. Humanity is way past the point of causing irreversible damage but it's better to start fixing things late than never

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

It is. Rehabilitation can, indeed, be taken too far, when the concerns for a perpetrator eclipse the concern for a victim. In general, it seems as if the idea of a sentencing being a punishment and deterrent has largely been discarded.

Nah it hasn't been discarded, it's just not in favour with elites. Even in the UK for example half the country (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/) still supports capital punishment whilst the entirety of the political, media and academic UK is largely against it - I would much like to see death penalty for repeat offenders, but not first time offenders. I do believe people should be allowed second chances, without taking liberties with the law, but I am yet to find any leaders in the west who agree.

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

Personally, I would like repeat criminals of this type to be exiled, without delay. It would be better for everyone, including those migrants that intend to, and do, behave.

It would be cruel however, to inflict upon home countries these repeat criminals - especially since they will transfer all the "skills"  and connections they learned in Europe to criminal gangs to their exile destination. Capital or life punishment minimizes their risk to domestic and international populaces, and genuinely there are some prisons abroad that are worse than death, things I would hesitate even to send repeat murderers to.

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

I know that I harp on it quite often, but wide open doors does not help anyone, and it is not the generous, enlightened act of humanity that it seems. Taking a modicum of responsibility for one's migration, even and particularly when it is hard, knotty and morally difficult, is better for everyone.

I never understood why open borders was taken to be an innate virtue, I found this especially amusing coming from wealthy gentry living in gated communities. In the UK it was portrayed as this false dichotomy that to retain our border control was to be isolationist, as if to retain locks on your doors was to be reclusive. A very confusing debate indeed

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

It it impossible to say how long a sentence actually will be, or how the appeal will be handled. However, their businesses and reputations have been soundly scuttled, so there is at least that.

"At least" is a killer phrase lol

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

Now then, from sex crime to Nazi terrorism: the group calling itself the Nordic Resistance Movement (Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen) has been up to quite a few tricks lately in and around the city of Gothenburg.
...
As a very unfortunate aside, this movement have also, at times, appeared at bath houses to act as sort of volunteer security guards (that is, to speak plainly, to keep the gropey Afghans in line), which has caused some quarrels here and there. However, since sexual harrassment incidents seem to become rather common in public baths, one wonders why nothing seems to be done to fill the gap that they are evidently trying to plug themselves. It is a very unfortunate affair when Nazi militias are, in effect, providing an important social service.
Speaking of, they are at least not as bone-idle as the chaps in the Soldier of Odin-gangs. What they are doing with their time, I do not know, but it does not seem to be patroling the streets and keeping them safe. If they wanted to do some good for the community, there are plenty of areas in the city centre where they could do some good.

How large are these paramilitary groups and is there a connection between the mass resignation of Sweden's police and the rise of these neo-nazi shocktroopers? You don't hear so much about these neo-fascists in detail in foreign news, they tend to slip under the radar where islamic machete men at least reach page 15 headlines

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 11:42:51 am

Spoiler alert: there are people here that are from countries that are definitely not walking towards this direction. One of them is, in fact, me.
Then again, I don't really laugh at Sweden, so you could still be technically correct!

Russia has progressive potential :^)

Also lol I love memri TV

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 02:29:42 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 11:42:51 am

Spoiler alert: there are people here that are from countries that are definitely not walking towards this direction. One of them is, in fact, me.
Then again, I don't really laugh at Sweden, so you could still be technically correct!

Russia has progressive potential :^)

The four leading parties are all firmly against progressive ideology, and they represent the overwhelming total of Russian population. The word "progressive" itself is treated with wariness by the people. We are safe and secure from the tendrils of decadence, my friend!

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Also lol I love memri TV

What's "memri TV"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on February 08, 2017, 02:32:48 pm

The best thing to come out the middle east other then kebab and belly dancers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:39:23 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 02:29:42 pm

The four leading parties are all firmly against progressive ideology, and they represent the overwhelming total of Russian population. The word "progressive" itself is treated with wariness by the people. We are safe and secure from the tendrils of decadence, my friend!

Immunized against one form, but you're defending against something inherently formless

Quote from: Sheb on February 08, 2017, 09:53:17 am

Nah, both are about people from Muslim-majority country, not Muslims per se. One is against them permanently settling, the other (the Trump one) is about them even soiling your clean soil with their dirty muslim feet.

Missed this post, sorry. Muslim majority country is by nationality, whilst a Muslim ban is by religion. Unless we're going to pretend that every other religion on the planet does not exist in Muslim countries, which is ridiculous, especially with many deliberately fuddling their religious stats to give the impression of purity

Quote from: Covenant on February 08, 2017, 02:35:50 pm

As far as the death penalty goes, I find it's something I waver back and forth upon over the knife-edge of yes and no. I wish there were an alternative - a Phantom Zone, or a new, limitless Australia we could ship the serial rapists and murderers off to. In the end, I'm always left simply thankful such decisions aren't required of me. Perhaps that's cowardly.

What about the British Antarctic territory. Or the moon? Maybe even Mars
Actually fuck yeah Mars prison colony, that sounds fucking awesome. They could even stage their own rebellion and form a Mars nation

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 02:29:42 pm

What's "memri TV"?

Memri provides a diverse array of news you wouldn't get on decadent western media

Quote from: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 12:38:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2017, 12:23:42 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on January 26, 2017, 10:08:25 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/f764ffe73b75b5a15f821605c0c7d6d7/tumblr_ok9jruFNS61qzeo2zo1_1280.jpg)

wat

Spoiler: This news is hilarious (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/xLFslIY.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pzwWTaF.jpg)

How have I lived so long without this? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYnaGCoDRN0)
This is only made worsebetter because I keep reading it as "khemri tv"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

It seems the American people wanted a president who shits on everything and wipes his arse on the constitution, and they sure as hell got one. Sixty-two million flies can't be wrong: shit tastes good.

It is not a clever idea to call your enemies maggots taking wing as flies. Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

the ride never ends

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 08:44:05 am

Tell me, Cov: If western traditions are the most valuable thing there is, why is it that people in your camp apparently have zero respect for such traditions as constitutionalism, rule of law, separation of powers, democracy, civil rights, etc. etc.? Some traditions are worth preserving, but others have to be trampled down because... what? What "tradition" could possibly be more important than the fundamental institutions of democratic society? Hmm...  ???

In the UK, upon the ascent of Theresa May, one peculiar quote will always tickle my funny bone. It said: Theresa May stands for justice, not social justice, and this was supposed to be an indictment of her character.
Both camps see rule of law, separation of powers, democracy and civil rights worthy of upholding, but one camp has dehumanized the other as insectoid and being motivated by evil and stupidity. They represent traditions to be trampled down :/

Make that two camps and you've got a pretty realistic view of the situation. Except that doing away with democratic institutions really is a very shitty idea, and anyone who feels attracted to it is very much like a fly in that metaphorical sense.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

The question stands in reverse. Why would anyone seek to preserve any traditions when they find the very concept of tradition hostile?

The concept of tradition is not inherently good or bad for anyone on either side of the political divide. There are many time-honored western traditions that modern right-wingers cannot stomach at all, and even the most ignorant and self-centered of SJWs feel the need to entertain some ideas of continuity with the struggles of previous generations. Cherry-picking is the name of the game with traditions, though, no matter who you are.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

My last point is that all of the traditions you listed are good, but they are all wholly related to the administrative functions of government. Not a single thing you listed involved people's traditions, normal people who merely want to cultivate their own long line of customs, styles and beliefs from their progenitors to their successors. Perhaps just an accidental omission, perhaps not - but our camp of maggots, if they can be generalized, do not believe that the purpose of the nation is to uphold the state, but the purpose of the state is to uphold the nation, and the nation is the people united by their common descent, history and culture. Civic traditions are very valuable in the practical day to day running of things, but the question always at the end of the day is to be or not to be, and bureaucracy provides no such answer.

Well, yes, that's the stereotypical difference between liberal and conservative mindsets and their differing approaches to government and tradition: conservatives value kinship and local customs over civic traditions, and liberals value abstract liberties and institutions over things that strengthen communal unity. From a conservative point of view, liberals are cold-hearted elitist reptilians who want to impose arbitrary rules and regulations on their traditional way of life, and from a liberal point of view, conservatives are pigheaded imbeciles who simply refuse to understand that the institutions of democracy belong to everyone, conservatives included, and purposefully undermining them is the most self-defeating and stupid thing that a citizen of a democratic nation could do---regardless of whether said citizen already feels completely alienated from said institutions, as modern conservatives usually do. I understand the flaws of both caricatures, but I still believe that the liberal version is somewhat closer to "truth," if there is such a thing. The conservatives' alienation from the civic traditions is a lamentable problem, but it does not justify voting for an orange tin-pot dictator in protest. At least not if you want to keep on living in a democracy, and I know I do.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 09:40:27 am

An open minded approach could perhaps better help you understand why these flies are as they are. A simple contest of "no you're hypocrites" does not get us anywhere, especially when our values are so different. This is only to your benefit; just look at the vast resources that were available to Remain and Clinton, and how both were defeated because their camps had no interest in learning how their opponents thought, except to denigrate them as cartoonish villains and low-information fools. We all know the Sun Tzu quote

Understanding can only take you so far until you bang your head against the brick wall of political antagonism: two contradictory truths, two irreconcilable versions of reality, absolutely nothing in between.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 03:10:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:39:23 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 02:29:42 pm

The four leading parties are all firmly against progressive ideology, and they represent the overwhelming total of Russian population. The word "progressive" itself is treated with wariness by the people. We are safe and secure from the tendrils of decadence, my friend!

Immunized against one form, but you're defending against something inherently formless

What "other" forms there are?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 04:49:46 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

I once read a heartbreaking letter from a man who wrote to one of my local hospitals, he was completely upset his mother had gone blind for lack of treatment, placed at the back of the queue of smokers and obesity patients, who really should know better :|

I am a smoker, and I am quite prepared to let someone pass ahead of me in the queue if that does put me into need for healthcare. It just seems fair; it is a known risk. Of course, that is as long as I am not booted out of the rank entirely when I am there because of a broken knee or something other entirely unrelated.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

I do sometimes feel as if I am feebly dangling on a tether rope trailing behind it. But I shall never let go.

Well I always say it's never too late for damage control

Just look at climate change. Humanity is way past the point of causing irreversible damage but it's better to start fixing things late than never

Of course. It is never too hopeless to do what one can. And in my case, where would I even go? Not to mention, there are some reassuring signs that things are changing for the better, albeit slowly.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

It is. Rehabilitation can, indeed, be taken too far, when the concerns for a perpetrator eclipse the concern for a victim. In general, it seems as if the idea of a sentencing being a punishment and deterrent has largely been discarded.

Nah it hasn't been discarded, it's just not in favour with elites. Even in the UK for example half the country (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/) still supports capital punishment whilst the entirety of the political, media and academic UK is largely against it - I would much like to see death penalty for repeat offenders, but not first time offenders. I do believe people should be allowed second chances, without taking liberties with the law, but I am yet to find any leaders in the west who agree.

I am, all together, in favour of the death penalty. There are times where it is best. Criminals of exceptional cruelty and inhumanity, for instance, the sort that cannot, should not, ever be released. The guillotine is the most dignified thing to employ in such cases, I believe. It is not something I demand very loudly, but I would not be unhappy to see it return as an option. Mr. Anders Eklund can take the maiden voyage, as it were. Save his fellow prisoners the bother of beating him when they get a chance.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

Personally, I would like repeat criminals of this type to be exiled, without delay. It would be better for everyone, including those migrants that intend to, and do, behave.

It would be cruel however, to inflict upon home countries these repeat criminals - especially since they will transfer all the "skills"  and connections they learned in Europe to criminal gangs to their exile destination. Capital or life punishment minimizes their risk to domestic and international populaces, and genuinely there are some prisons abroad that are worse than death, things I would hesitate even to send repeat murderers to.

That is true, I suppose, but that sort of life-long detention carries troubles of its own. However, there has been some development today, in that the German and Swedish governments have finally managed to persuade the Moroccan government to accept an arrangement where Moroccan street children (if that term is appropriate is a discussion of its own) are accepted back into the country, and into a treatment program. I do grumble somewhat, that the Moroccans would not accept their own citizens back until Swedish-German funds to arrange orphanages for them came through, but it is, indeed, something.
It is, after all, rather difficult to send away someone to a homeland that will not have them, and it would either be an arrangement like this or sneaking them back in with submarines in the dead of night, I suppose.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

It it impossible to say how long a sentence actually will be, or how the appeal will be handled. However, their businesses and reputations have been soundly scuttled, so there is at least that.

"At least" is a killer phrase lol

Well, true. It is simply quite a relief to see a case where their crimes carry real consequence. These people lived on their reputation and standing, as a pair of swell chaps with connections and money. This particular kind of creature (venue owners that uses their influence and ownership to do sex crime) have a tendency to slip off the hook far too lightly, even accounting for the dreadful standards on the matter, so this is a very welcome change of course.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:17:32 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 10:49:47 am

Now then, from sex crime to Nazi terrorism: the group calling itself the Nordic Resistance Movement (Nordiska Motståndsrörelsen) has been up to quite a few tricks lately in and around the city of Gothenburg.
...
As a very unfortunate aside, this movement have also, at times, appeared at bath houses to act as sort of volunteer security guards (that is, to speak plainly, to keep the gropey Afghans in line), which has caused some quarrels here and there. However, since sexual harrassment incidents seem to become rather common in public baths, one wonders why nothing seems to be done to fill the gap that they are evidently trying to plug themselves. It is a very unfortunate affair when Nazi militias are, in effect, providing an important social service.
Speaking of, they are at least not as bone-idle as the chaps in the Soldier of Odin-gangs. What they are doing with their time, I do not know, but it does not seem to be patroling the streets and keeping them safe. If they wanted to do some good for the community, there are plenty of areas in the city centre where they could do some good.

How large are these paramilitary groups and is there a connection between the mass resignation of Sweden's police and the rise of these neo-nazi shocktroopers? You don't hear so much about these neo-fascists in detail in foreign news, they tend to slip under the radar where islamic machete men at least reach page 15 headlines

I am unsure of how large they are, statistics tend to be rather inconclusive and I have been rather out of the loop until they rather recently went "Surprise! Fail Shitler!" again. But it is not a particularly large group, I would be surprised if the NMR could number more than about twenty thousand, in alles. They are, however, motivated and quite well organised, which is what sets them apart from most earlier Nazi groups in the country. They are, by and large, far fever than the various left-wing activist that they are feuding with. Particularly if you count in the Antifa-kids (Which evidently have a chapter in America these days).
They are, luckily, not particularly para-military yet. They no doubt do have access to firearms and evidently to explosives, but they are not militias in the sense of The Troubles, for instance.

As for the police involvement, I am also unsure. There are a few, no doubt. But by and large, the sort of person who becomes a policeman is usually not the same "type" that sympathise with Nazism and joins that sort of groups. The resignations are mainly due to poor leadership and organisation, along with a staggering work-load, rather than an alienation towards the state. Not to mention, it is unclear if the NMR would generally accept former policemen as recruits in most cases. The piggies and the rozzers generally do not get along, and the police still have a particular grudge towards Nazi organisations, following a murder in 1999 (Very brief summary: three men involved in various Nazi movements joined together to rob a bank. Two policemen where murdered during their escape. They were eventually caught, and are serving life sentences.) Cop killers are not popular, be it Chicago or Mjölby, and 18 years are likely not enough to digest that sentiment.

While the NMR are, obviously, quite dangerous, running about with explosives and what-not, they are still not particularly fearsome as a directly political force. They still (amusingly) rely on the police to protect their rallies and marches from the left-wing activists (and the police are called Nazi-enablers and swines and bastards and what-not for their trouble), and have very little actual control of the situation. While there no doubt has been more recruits these last years, they are still outnumbered, distrusted and disrespected. And with more of this bombing business, they might very well be outlawed, too. They might rally, grow and claw themselves some influence, but Nazism in Sweden does not seem to have a particularly bright future. And that is at least something to be happy about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 08, 2017, 05:36:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:39:23 pm

How have I lived so long without this? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYnaGCoDRN0)
This is only made worsebetter because I keep reading it as "khemri tv"

I can finally understand why Mossad steals their shoes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11673700/Muslim-campaigner-Zionists-crept-into-my-home-and-stole-my-shoe.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 05:59:04 pm

Spoiler: Tl;dr (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 03:10:05 pm

What "other" forms there are?

Fuck if I know what form the formless takes, that's like trying to categorize what random finnish memelords will make next. It's impossible

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

the ride never ends

[skeleton noises in september]

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

Make that two camps and you've got a pretty realistic view of the situation. Except that doing away with democratic institutions really is a very shitty idea, and anyone who feels attracted to it is very much like a fly in that metaphorical sense.

No, that is not realistic. Take for example in the UK where the Remain camp was arguing in favour of doing away with democratic institutions, I have never met anyone rude enough to call Remain voters flies in shit. Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

The concept of tradition is not inherently good or bad for anyone on either side of the political divide. There are many time-honored western traditions that modern right-wingers cannot stomach at all, and even the most ignorant and self-centered of SJWs feel the need to entertain some ideas of continuity with the struggles of previous generations. Cherry-picking is the name of the game with traditions, though, no matter who you are.

I don't really buy your argument when you're talking explicitly of trampling on traditions whilst conservatism's prime tenet is conserving continuity.
(http://i.imgur.com/XSjHqc6.png)
The difference between how groups compare their values especially in regards to such thing as tradition are easily shown when put side by side (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159095.msg7353594#msg7353594). The left-right divide is too simplistic to make any meaningful distinctions however, but between groups like conservative and progressive, these values and the better defined groups have different priorities which means they respond to the same circumstances and information differently. They're useful things to take stock of, an ignoramus larping with the superficial aspects of their appearance do not in any way compare to those who actually try to cultivate their traditions. Compare for example, the Japanese kimono exporters who had their art show shut down by Japanese Americans, Americans who didn't even speak Japanese. (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/08/04/commentary/japan-commentary/kimono-cultural-appropriation/) Nationalists and Conservatives both identify things within their nation to cultivate, the former placing emphasis on the nation and the latter on continuity, they would not for example in a million years get to the Swedish conclusion that their people are worthless, that their traditions are nonexistent and that their death is a welcoming prospect. The various political groups that can be identified as at the very least socially "right-wing," they have many problems, a hatred of their own traditions is not one of them. That is very progressive

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

Well, yes, that's the stereotypical difference between liberal and conservative mindsets and their differing approaches to government and tradition: conservatives value kinship and local customs over civic traditions, and liberals value abstract liberties and institutions over things that strengthen communal unity.

I disagree, I believe that is the stereotypical difference between civic nationalist and conservative mindsets and their differing approaches to government and tradition. In the UK for example, the chief opposition to the coalition of civics and cons was libs, the libs alongside the progs being in favour of discontinuing our civic traditions and cultural traditions. Civic nats are content with the protection of all their civic institutions, cons want to protect even more

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

From a conservative point of view, liberals are cold-hearted elitist reptilians who want to impose arbitrary rules and regulations on their traditional way of life, and from a liberal point of view, conservatives are pigheaded imbeciles who simply refuse to understand that the institutions of democracy belong to everyone, conservatives included, and purposefully undermining them is the most self-defeating and stupid thing that a citizen of a democratic nation could do---regardless of whether said citizen already feels completely alienated from said institutions, as modern conservatives usually do. I understand the flaws of both caricatures, but I still believe that the liberal version is somewhat closer to "truth," if there is such a thing. The conservatives' alienation from the civic traditions is a lamentable problem, but it does not justify voting for an orange tin-pot dictator in protest. At least not if you want to keep on living in a democracy, and I know I do.

Now, for some reason I don't feel this is a particularly fair portrayal of how things are. It certainly is easy to defend yourself from your opponent's criticisms when you imagine them to be idiot subhuman flies who believe you're a reptile overlord.

To that end I can only offer you my perspective on things for now at least. There is great distance between the reality on how liberals see conservatives and how conservatives see liberals. This I suspect, is not a matter of exceptional virtue, but a matter of simple circumstance. Conservatives work under liberal bosses, receive education under liberal professors, consume media produced by liberals, consume news media produced by liberals, assuming they have anything to do with a city they will be constantly working alongside liberals. By contrast conservative areas usually have nothing whatsoever to offer inner city liberals, so there is never any incentive for them to go over there and intermingle. This creates a rather one sided transfer of information where conservatives grow very familiar with how the liberal world operates and what it values, but not the other way around. I think it's a very human thing, that people just don't want to learn about stuff that bores them, but rather usefully conservatives don't get a choice in the matter :]

Thus while conservatives can see liberals complaining that conservatives just refuse to understand, liberals only see conservatives through the lens of the liberal community. Your caricature is itself, nothing more than a further parody of conservatives by liberals, both are liberal caricatures :/
I'm not even going to talk about the irony in which you portray conservatives as alienated by tradition and undermining democratic institutions, in such a time period where liberals having undermined their own traditions, are now undermining their own democratic institutions, feeling alienated from defeat. It's simply too easy. Frankly, seeing how the American conservatives are even now physically attacked, I don't see how they even had any choice in the matter. The progressives used common sense in Afghanistan and Iraq, determining that if they were not friends with the locals, the locals would turn to extremists for protection. Now you got your orange despot and you deserve it, this is the price to pay when you turn neighbours into enemies :P

But if he is your orange despot, he is not to his voters. There is not only one way to live or see the world, I remember learning a Buddhist metaphor on dealing with other religions, on how we are all trying to reach the shore of distant lands but there is not only one boat we can take. Politics is no different, I have found partisanship to be harmful to democratic process, being divisive, dehumanizing and halting people from policing their own communities. Yesterday progressives covered up migrant sex slavery or violent attacks because it made their opponents more popular, at a time when they should've been taking most responsibility. In the world of tomorrow the new right-wing powers of the world will likewise face the same temptation, a temptation their own predecessors failed, to shirk this self-same responsibility. If your faction can never learn that your way of life is the only way of life the entirety of the planet can live, and that everyone else is just wrong and refuses to understand, you're forcing people into any boat that's not yours :[

Quote from: SirQuiamus on February 08, 2017, 03:06:07 pm

Understanding can only take you so far until you bang your head against the brick wall of political antagonism: two contradictory truths, two irreconcilable versions of reality, absolutely nothing in between.

I don't subscribe to arbitrary binaries, check your privilege (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=162538.msg7347453#msg7347453)

Quote from: Vilanat on February 08, 2017, 05:36:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 02:39:23 pm

How have I lived so long without this? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYnaGCoDRN0)
This is only made worsebetter because I keep reading it as "khemri tv"

I can finally understand why Mossad steals their shoes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11673700/Muslim-campaigner-Zionists-crept-into-my-home-and-stole-my-shoe.html)

Spoiler: Meanwhile at IDF HQ (click to show/hide)

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83645000/png/_83645589_zionist4.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 06:05:15 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 08, 2017, 04:49:46 pm

As for the police involvement, I am also unsure. There are a few, no doubt. But by and large, the sort of person who becomes a policeman is usually not the same "type" that sympathise with Nazism and joins that sort of groups. The resignations are mainly due to poor leadership and organisation, along with a staggering work-load, rather than an alienation towards the state. Not to mention, it is unclear if the NMR would generally accept former policemen as recruits in most cases. The piggies and the rozzers generally do not get along, and the police still have a particular grudge towards Nazi organisations, following a murder in 1999 (Very brief summary: three men involved in various Nazi movements joined together to rob a bank. Two policemen where murdered during their escape. They were eventually caught, and are serving life sentences.) Cop killers are not popular, be it Chicago or Mjölby, and 18 years are likely not enough to digest that sentiment.

Nah, I wasn't implying they're recruiting the police, I'm wondering if they're recruiting in the absence of police. You get examples in the UK, Japan, Italy and so on where in the absence of law enforcement by state actors, you get the emergence of organized crime acting as a cross between an extortion racket and a vigilante group in the power vacuum
Pay money or you don't get protection etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 06:07:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 05:59:04 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 03:10:05 pm

What "other" forms there are?

Fuck if I know what form the formless takes, that's like trying to categorize what random finnish memelords will make next. It's impossible

Pffft. A formless enemy is an enemy without discipline, without hierarchy. In other words, it a weak enemy that will surely be crushed by an organized might of Russia! Ura, comrades! Gip-gip - ura! Gip-gip - ura! Gip-gip - uraaaaaa!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 06:47:44 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 06:07:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 05:59:04 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 03:10:05 pm

What "other" forms there are?

Fuck if I know what form the formless takes, that's like trying to categorize what random finnish memelords will make next. It's impossible

Pffft. A formless enemy is an enemy without discipline, without hierarchy. In other words, it a weak enemy that will surely be crushed by an organized might of Russia! Ura, comrades! Gip-gip - ura! Gip-gip - ura! Gip-gip - uraaaaaa!

You guys of all should know how ideological subversion works (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRpLLs7SNE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 07:36:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 06:47:44 pm

You guys of all should know how ideological subversion works (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRpLLs7SNE)

I hope it wouldn't be a very big revelation to you that Sun Tzu as seen by Russians is a, more or less, just another obscure historical figure? Really, the fascination and reverence that the Westerners have with him is quite a bit alien to me. "Art of War", uhuh. How about "Science of victory"? Really, Suvorov himself was the living proof that proper discipline and organization beats anything "formless" all time every time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 08:18:59 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 08, 2017, 07:36:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 08, 2017, 06:47:44 pm

You guys of all should know how ideological subversion works (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRpLLs7SNE)

I hope it wouldn't be a very big revelation to you that Sun Tzu as seen by Russians is a, more or less, just another obscure historical figure? Really, the fascination and reverence that the Westerners have with him is quite a bit alien to me. "Art of War", uhuh. How about "Science of victory"? Really, Suvorov himself was the living proof that proper discipline and organization beats anything "formless" all time every time.

Yey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/TLDUZw7.jpg)

a b s o l u t e l y   b e z m e n o v (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSV72VNnV0)

*EDIT
Oh, and on the topic of Sun Tzu, I do not represent the West on him. It's a bit weird why the West is so fascinated by him, I get a hearty cackle reading of sergeants in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms berating their superior officers for following the Art of War instead of common sense, as the Art of War even millennia ago was known not to be the end-all perfection of military strategy. I reckon it's to do with how he's required reading for most people going into business, politics or warfare, so he has become part of international culture

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2017, 09:28:30 am

In the nuclear reactor of Flamanville (France), an explosion occured this morning. Initially there were some reports of injuries by the French radio channel M6 Media, but apparently no one was injured.
No radiation was released either.

According to energy corporation EDF, at 8:45 this morning an explosion occured in the machine room of reactor 1. The explosion was caused by a fire. The cause of the fire is as of yet unknown.
The reactor has been shut down.

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/explosie-in-franse-kerncentrale~ad6926c5/ (http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/explosie-in-franse-kerncentrale~ad6926c5/)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38918010 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38918010)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 10, 2017, 10:09:09 am

At least it wasn't the reactor itself, which is the part you REALLY don't want exploding. O.o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2017, 10:49:50 am

The Dutch FNV Labour Union warns that active policy and investment by the government is needed to solve the growing shortage of nurses and other healthcare workers. Low salaries, (starting salary for a nurse is maybe 10 euros a month more than minimum wage, and it won't even be raised anywhere near modal income over a lifelong career) combined with ever increasing workload due to budget cuts have led to less and less people choosing a career in the field, and more and more dropping out to find work in another sector (not to mention those that drop out into years of burnout and disability to work). To add to the problem, rich arab contries like Qatar have discovered the high quality education of Dutch healthcare workers, and are actively recruiting from the dwindling pool by offering royal salaries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on February 10, 2017, 11:07:04 am

Croatia has a similar problem of bleeding educated and skilled doctors to the point where the government is scrambling to figure out how to keep them. Who knew that a decent standard of living with humane working hours is so tempting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 10, 2017, 11:24:50 am

I think I read somewhere that fully 92% of Bulgarian doctors plan on emigrating.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 10, 2017, 02:54:28 pm

Quote from: Jopax on February 10, 2017, 11:07:04 am

Croatia has a similar problem of bleeding educated and skilled doctors to the point where the government is scrambling to figure out how to keep them. Who knew that a decent standard of living with humane working hours is so tempting.

Eh, you'll get them back when Brexit goes through.

Or they'll just go to Germany, whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 10, 2017, 04:09:09 pm

Quote from: Jopax on February 10, 2017, 11:07:04 am

Croatia has a similar problem of bleeding educated and skilled doctors to the point where the government is scrambling to figure out how to keep them. Who knew that a decent standard of living with humane working hours is so tempting.

Humane working hours <-> working in healthcare

Pick one.

Anywhere in the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2017, 04:58:00 pm

I thought doctors in the Netherlands were well paid. Then again, I live in the country with the worst doctors-wages-to -cost-of-living ratio of Western Europe.

I'll probably leave for Ireland in the nex two months anyhow (unless something goes wrong with my IMC registration), at least for the next 6-12 months.

Quote from: Antioch on February 10, 2017, 04:09:09 pm

Humane working hours <-> working in healthcare

Pick one.

Anywhere in the world.

Yes, but some places are worse than others.
In my homeland the law is not the worst in that regard in fact, by far. Problem is that the law gets ignored all too often, specially where junior doctors are involved (not that it's my case anymore... and in fact my overlords didnt dare to pull that shit on *me*.... but it IS a problem for many other people)

For the record: EU law limits theoretical resident work hours to 48... but I dont know many places that respect that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on February 10, 2017, 05:16:06 pm

That's because they're usually short on staff so they can't really afford to do that. If you have enough doctors you don't need to overwork them, which is rarely the case in these parts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2017, 05:20:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2017, 04:58:00 pm

I thought doctors in the Netherlands were well paid.

Doctors (GPs, specialists, psychiatrists) are well paid. Nurses, and various healthcare staff working in elderly care are not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 11, 2017, 05:52:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 10, 2017, 05:20:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2017, 04:58:00 pm

I thought doctors in the Netherlands were well paid.

Doctors (GPs, specialists, psychiatrists) are well paid. Nurses, and various healthcare staff working in elderly care are not.

Specialists get paid well, base doctors do not (though "ok"). Medicine students have 2.5 years of internship in the hospital in which they get a whopping 0 euro.

So basically you already work in a hospital for about 7.5 years before you get paid well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 11, 2017, 10:07:06 am

Out of idle curiosity, how much is "well paid"? Right now I'm getting 60-70K € (It will probably end up lower because the biggest problem for specialists in Spain is that employment is highly precarious. I've worked like... 70% of the last eight months, with two or three large hiccups of one month or so. But I'm talking about a theoretical yearly-employment-with-my-current-wages. Before I leave I estimate I'll get 50-60% of the nine months I've been spinning around here). I expect the Irish to pay me around two to two and a half times as much.

Now, this is not as much about the money as it's about the perks. During the last year I've been stuck in a very small hospital in which our staff is very small (other two consultants and me), we don't get to do the more interesting stuff (or even the middling interesting stuff) and instead get a lot of chaff consultations. In my prospective employment I get a proper haemato-oncology consultation, and several junior doctors at my disposal. So it's a significative improvement. And there's also the €€€ of course, but it's not my primary consideration. It will, however, probably mean that once I start this (assuming I dont get any further paperwork problems...) I'll buy some stuff I had been wondering about for a while (eg: a 3d printer, a telescope. Possibly a new high-end laptop...)

I hope it goes alright. If I got my vibes right from the interview they intend to give me quite a few multiple myeloma patients. Which is a good thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 11, 2017, 11:50:57 pm

How is multiple cancer patients a good thing?....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2017, 03:19:08 am

Wow that nurse shortage is more urgent than I thought.
Beginning of 2016, there was a projected shortage of 1000 nurses / care workers.
Right now, there's a shortage of between 8000 and 10000. If after the elections we want to improve elderly care, as promised by quite a few parties, we even need 70000 more nurses and care workers.

70 thousand nurses short. On a population of 17 million. That's a lot of people we need to send to medical school fast :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 12, 2017, 06:50:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 11, 2017, 11:50:57 pm

How is multiple cancer patients a good thing?....

The disease is called multiple myeloma. It's not as much a matter of having more of it being a good thing, as it is about this: I'd rather run a haemato-oncology consultation than the current general-haematology consultation I'm doing (in which I can't actually prescribe chemo because of the limitations of the place, and on top of that I get a lot of chaff that should be directed to internal medicine or gastroenterology but for some reason is sent to my turf instead). Therefore leaving is a better career opportunity than staying here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2017, 07:20:46 am

Meanwile in Paris, a protest against police violence erupted into riots. A few hundred people smashed windows of government buildings and supermarkets, and set fire to cars and garbage bins.

The protests were organized by two school kids, after the police arrested 22-year old Théo, for refusing to show his ID. After being released straight into hospital, Théo accused the police of anal raping him with a baton. In hospital, bleeding wounds were found in his anus, as well as a ruptured beavis, and he had to undergo emergency surgery.
The arresting officer has been arrested and charged with rape, 3 other officers present have been charged with physical abuse.

At first the two scholars did try to prevent escalation, when about 2 thousand people showed up for their protest. They said "violence does not serve our cause. It makes us look feral, and no one will hear our righteous indignation anymore". Despite their efforts, at the end of the afternoon, things went ugly and riots started.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38892302 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38892302)

EDIT: after reading the BBC article, apparently this was the second weekend that saw protests and riots. The riots I reported above the link are fresh, happened yesterday, according to the volks rant. The riots reported by the BBC article were last week.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 13, 2017, 12:30:03 pm

Stupidity and out-of-touch judges are at it again in Sweden. (https://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-must-be-blocked-in-sweden-court-of-appeal-rules-170213/)

*sigh* ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 14, 2017, 04:20:10 pm

The Netherlands' largest employment agency, Randstad, has announced that they want to attract more immigrants, to be precise, they want 80 thousand more immigrants per year.
Director of Randstad, Jacques van den Broek says that even though the political climate is all about stopping immigration, shortages on the job market really need the 80 thousand immigrants, mostly to fill higher education vacancies, before our economic growth will be seriously damaged by the shortage of professionals.
"I plea for a pro-active immigration policy, which means we should actively search for educated workers", van den Broek says. "We know were they are. They are all over the world. In India, but also in Spain".

Van den Broek's plea finds support from our national welfare agency, UWV, which is responsible for paying temporary unemployment benefits, sickness benefits and disability benefits, as well as being responsible for reintegration of the unemployed.
"More and more employers are reporting they are having trouble filling vacancies."
The most affected are the ICT and technical sector, next to healthcare, cosntruction and education. For the technical sector, there is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, and maintnance mechanics. The ICT sector badly needs programmers. The construction sector needs professional masons and carpenters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 14, 2017, 05:12:50 pm

That sounds like a very reasonable idea. Who doesn't want educated, high-qualified immigration?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 14, 2017, 05:28:42 pm

The burocrats who have to go over the paperwork. I swear they go out of their way to make trouble.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2017, 07:51:10 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 14, 2017, 05:12:50 pm

That sounds like a very reasonable idea. Who doesn't want educated, high-qualified immigration?

Ideally you want your education system to be producing highly educated and qualified workers instead of people who can name 90 genders and orientations - the proposal is not to impose selective migration to have a regular flow of high-qualified immigration, the proposal is to increase the Netherlands' immigration to at least 80 thousand more per year. With no control on the qualifications or age of migrants, their proposal would merely compound their problem, they would do much better to select for aspirant students with good qualifications and adequate finances. Moreover, without an increase in the number and quality of technical schools, yet an increase in unskilled immigrants, they would have failed to remove the limiting factor to their skilled workforce. This will have come at a time where the Dutch are increasingly concerned with assimilating their migrant cultures into the Dutch one, which of course would be impossible with such a high rate of immigration, leading to much the same problems we've always been rattling on about.

Cut or reduce tuition fees/fund bursars for STEM subjects and Technical schools, there you go, that instantly makes the subjects 100% more attractive for those who don't want to cut off an arm to pay for their education. More importantly, it directs students away from subjects that are bloated with graduates and into fields where there are always shortages, to that end Western nations are incredibly retarded. You get the same people saying that bursars for prospecting female students into STEM works in increasing the attractiveness of the field, then turning around and saying that investing in STEM will not work because we need less border control lol

Doing a brief look at the attractiveness of Dutch unis, I noticed they're not in as high demand as English speaking Unis to international students. Probably an unfair reputation given that the Dutch mostly all speak English anyways, so maybe some good advertising of that simple fact could dispel the myth to international students. To financial concerns good maintenance loans or grants, lower tuition fees and the promise of work placement/extended visas upon completion of education (the last is probably the most important) would drastically increase the popular draw of Dutch unis, and moreover ensure that migrants they educate don't just fly over to the USA upon graduation for example. Have a flexible housing policy so you don't deter fundamentalist students, which is a serious concern for atheist Dutch who don't understand why strict Sunnis don't want to live on campus surrounded by drugs, booze and partying.

Quote

"I plea for a pro-active immigration policy, which means we should actively search for educated workers", van den Broek says. "We know were they are. They are all over the world. In India, but also in Spain".

This bit is very agreeable in particular. People don't really think "oh I want to move to Netherlands" but if you bump into some international ambassadors from a Dutch Uni capable of selling you some image of world class technical training in a European Uni with subsequent employment in cutting edge companies, well, that sounds so much better doesn't it?

But yeah, from Randstad (http://www.relocatemagazine.com/news/talent-management-generation-z-more-ambitious-than-millennials-new-study-ruth-holmes), gen z and millennials are the most ambitious and commercially minded generation, but feel they are unprepared for the modern labour market with the education they have. Europeans don't see how they could obviously kill two birds with one stone by teaching their kids and actually looking out for their future instead of responding to everything with "fuck borders and laws and shit". There is also a curious discordance between Westerners and their desire to have eternal economic growth driven by population growth, and their revulsion to actually founding families and growing their population, one that never makes sense without a total embrace of the self as most important. To say nothing of their leaders lel. Imo community is always more important than commerce, even though one hopes never to need choose :]

Quote from: Covenant on February 14, 2017, 05:06:03 pm

Capitalism. Capitalism never changes.

Capitalism always changes, just as quickly as one spends loose change
One even fears that the future shall be little more than a conflict to see which capitalism reigns supreme. But that would be ludicrous

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on February 15, 2017, 12:49:05 am

Maybe it's the cynical in me, but everytime i see those claims i automaticaly translates it as "We need more lower paid proffesionals to cut our expenses so i could grant myself a bigger paycheck."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 15, 2017, 01:22:27 am

Quote from: greatorder on February 15, 2017, 12:56:51 am

Quote from: Vilanat on February 15, 2017, 12:49:05 am

Maybe it's the cynical in me, but everytime i see those claims i automaticaly transates that as "We need more lower paid proffesionals to cut our expenses so i could grant myself a bigger paycheck."

Well, that IS capitalism. Always good to remember a company's primary objective is to generate money.

Well, profit. Which is the difference between your income and expenses, and it's a lot easier to control your expenses than your income...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2017, 01:47:23 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 15, 2017, 12:56:51 am

Quote from: Vilanat on February 15, 2017, 12:49:05 am

Maybe it's the cynical in me, but everytime i see those claims i automaticaly transates that as "We need more lower paid proffesionals to cut our expenses so i could grant myself a bigger paycheck."

Well, that IS capitalism. Always good to remember a company's primary objective is to generate money.

Hector's nailed it, cos if it was just about generating money then we'd just keep printing money until zimbabwe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 15, 2017, 04:09:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2017, 01:47:23 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 15, 2017, 12:56:51 am

Quote from: Vilanat on February 15, 2017, 12:49:05 am

Maybe it's the cynical in me, but everytime i see those claims i automaticaly transates that as "We need more lower paid proffesionals to cut our expenses so i could grant myself a bigger paycheck."

Well, that IS capitalism. Always good to remember a company's primary objective is to generate money.

Hector's nailed it, cos if it was just about generating money then we'd just keep printing money until zimbabwe

Good thing companies can't print infinite money. Plus, if you want to maximize your profit on paper, inflating your currency also works: you can make BILLIONS in your business, with which you might be able to buy a used sandwich.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2017, 07:41:30 pm

Sadly where companies can't print infinite money, banks can

Quantitatively Ease my sandwich savings into oblivion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2017, 07:46:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2017, 07:41:30 pm

Sadly where companies can't print infinite money, banks can

Quantitatively Ease my sandwich savings into oblivion

Well, QE is Central Banks, not any bank. And while bank can create money, they're usually limited to a multiple of the deposits they own. Plus the way they create it is by creating loans, they can't just add zeroes to their revenues for lulz.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on February 16, 2017, 08:30:55 am

Indeed, though, there's a certainly a reason that they don't have the power to print unlimited currency or promissory notes.  It rarely (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1819) ends well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1837).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 16, 2017, 12:00:57 pm

Quote from: da_nang on February 13, 2017, 12:30:03 pm

Stupidity and out-of-touch judges are at it again in Sweden. (https://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-must-be-blocked-in-sweden-court-of-appeal-rules-170213/)

*sigh* ::)

They tried that for a while here in the Netherlands, but it was overruled by a judge who realized it was idiotic.

And it takes a whooping 5 seconds to google for a proxy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Radio Controlled on February 17, 2017, 06:28:40 am

So, the EU parliament has set out some goals for what direction they think the EU should take.

Quote from: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20170210IPR61812/parliament-sets-out-its-vision-for-the-future-of-europe

Parliament sets out its vision for the future of Europe
 
If the EU is to boost its capacity to act, restore citizens’ trust and make the euro zone economy more resilient to outside shocks, it needs to make full use of the Lisbon Treaty. But to go further, it needs to reform itself more fundamentally. This was the key message of three resolutions exploring the future development of the European Union approved by Parliament on Thursday.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The first resolution, drafted by Mercedes Bresso (S&D, IT) and Elmar Brok (EPP, DE) focuses on making the most of the existing Lisbon Treaty. It proposes, inter alia, that:

• the Council of Ministers should be turned into a genuine second legislative chamber, and its configurations into preparatory bodies similar to Parliament’s committees,
• each member state should present at least three candidates, including both genders, for the role of “its” Commissioner,
• the Council should switch completely to qualified majority voting, wherever this is possible under the treaties, to avoid blocking important draft laws and speed up the legislative process, and
• a permanent Council of Defence Ministers should be set up to coordinate the member states’ defence policies.

“The European Union doesn't need a populist revolution. It needs peace and to adapt to the necessities of our time. This means coping with democratic challenges, providing citizens with social, fiscal, and ecological protection, defending their right to safety in a very degraded international context and delivering on our moral obligations to our neighbours.”, said Ms Bresso.

“Citizens expect solutions from Europe, and they are angry because they do not see answers being delivered. This is evident in a time with many challenges, but there are many problems that can only be solved together. The Lisbon Treaty offers plenty of possibilities for making the EU more efficient, accountable and transparent, which have not yet been tapped”, said Mr Brok.

The resolution was approved by 329 votes to 223 with 83 abstentions.


Ambitious reform of treaties
The second resolution, by Guy Verhofstadt (ALDE, BE), looks at ways to move further than the current toolbox allows and suggests various reforms of the Lisbon Treaty, in the areas of economic governance, foreign policy, fundamental rights and transparency. In it, MEPs:

• suggest creating an EU finance minister and giving the EU Commission the power to formulate and give effect to a common EU economic policy, backed up by a euro-area budget,
• reiterate that the European Parliament should have a single seat,
• propose reducing the size of the College of EU Commissioners substantially, including by cutting the number of Vice-Presidents to two, and
• state their belief in allowing EU citizens in each member state to vote directly on the European political parties’ lead candidates for Commission President.

“These reports give the blueprint of what a more perfect Union should look like. They do not propose European integration for the sake of it. Once these reports are adopted, the question is: what is the way forward? I know we can have a strong, powerful, respected European union and at the same time have flourishing local and national democracies. In fact, I believe the one is not possible without the other”, said Mr Verhofstadt.

The resolution was approved by 283 votes to 269 with 83 abstentions.


Muscle up the Eurozone
In the third resolution, Reimer Böge (EPP, DE) and Pervenche Berès (S&D, FR) propose bringing the euro area economies closer together and making them more resilient to outside shocks. They outline a convergence strategy funded by a specific euro area budget, financed by its member states and available under clear conditions. Key proposals include:

• a fiscal capacity consisting of the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) and specific additional budgetary capacity for the euro area, funded by its members as a part of the EU budget,
• a European Monetary Fund (which should gradually develop out of the ESM) with adequate lending and borrowing capacities and a clearly-defined mandate to absorb economic shocks,
• a convergence code: five years to meet convergence criteria on taxation, labour market, investment, productivity, and social cohesion, and
• governance: a bigger role for the European Parliament and national parliaments, merging the functions of Eurogroup President and economic and monetary affairs Commissioner, plus a finance minister and treasury within the European Commission.

“Stabilizing the Eurozone would be in the interests of the European Union as a whole. Our proposals will therefore lay the basis for any further negotiations with the other European institutions. International Monetary Fund experts have also responded positively, showing great interest in our ideas”, said Mr Böge.

"Sixty years after the Treaty of Rome was signed, the spirit of the European Union's founding fathers needs to be reignited. Creating a budget for the euro area would be a big step towards this goal, at a time when the need to preserve the euro's integrity has never been more urgent. By delivering solidarity to member states facing an exceptional crisis, absorbing macroeconomic shocks that can affect the euro zone as a whole and promoting upward convergence, such a tool could make the most of the currency, while helping to achieve full employment within the Union", said Ms Berès.

The resolution was approved by 304 votes to 255 with 68 abstentions.

All these proposals are part of a package that aims to clarify Parliament’s position on the future of the EU, in time for the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.

So, empty words, or a promising resolution? Whether these things can be achieved, even if it's the latter, remains to be seen, given how the members haven't been jumping at the bit to give more power to the EU.

As bad as the whole Brexit debacle might be, perhaps it was a necessary sacrifice to allow (some of) these proposals to have any chance of seeing the light of day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2017, 06:36:41 am

Quote

outside shock

The EU doesn't need to be protected from "outside shock" as much as it needs to be protected from German greed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 17, 2017, 07:58:08 am

Quote from: scriver on February 17, 2017, 06:36:41 am

Quote

outside shock

The EU doesn't need to be protected from "outside shock" as much as it needs to be protected from German greed.

Interestingly that migh very well be an argument for beefed up EU institutions, with the UK gone the German government became even more powerful as a proportion, delegating power to EU isntitutions is a way to avoid German hegemony.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2017, 10:21:43 am

But who institutes the institutions?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 17, 2017, 11:43:15 am

Such argument. Wow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2017, 11:48:02 am

Don't be such a Drumpf, help, it is a play on "who watches the watchmen".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 17, 2017, 11:51:46 am

I get the reference. I'm just pointing out that it's a non-argument masquerading as one. Rhetorically that's only very slightly higher than calling your opponent a poo-poo head.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 17, 2017, 11:54:51 am

Considering how often you parade appeals to tradition it's pretty rich to come up with this. Ten pages back you were agreeing with the brexiteers on principle because of your permanent hard-on for anything conservative.  ::)


By the way, care to discuss how the brilliant EU plan to solve the Greek fiasco is working out? You know that they had to be bailed out yet again a couple of weeks ago, because this bullshit austerity we imposed on them doesn't work, right? As pretty much everyone foresaw, tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 17, 2017, 12:06:50 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 17, 2017, 11:54:51 am

Considering how often you parade appeals to tradition it's pretty rich to come up with this. Ten pages back you were agreeing with the brexiteers on principle because of your permanent hard-on for anything conservative.  ::)


By the way, care to discuss how the brilliant EU plan to solve the Greek fiasco is working out? You know that they had to be bailed out yet again a couple of weeks ago, because this bullshit austerity we imposed on them doesn't work, right? As pretty much everyone foresaw, tbh

They got bailed out again recently? I saw that the Greek debt crisis fiasco and Grexit was rearing it's head again, but didn't know how it played out.

Isn't there going to be a point where it'd be pointless or impossible to bail them out? This is exactly like Congress kicking the oil barrel (I like to use that instead of 'kicking the can', because it's a lot heavier than a can) over the debt. Though Greece is in a FAR, FAR, worse position than the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on February 17, 2017, 12:11:27 pm

Quote from: Radio Controlled on February 17, 2017, 06:28:40 am

-snip-

Seems pretty typical. They acknowledge here that the EU has been relatively useless in dealing with problems concerning national sovereignty, and suggest handing over more power to them as the solution to the problem of national sovereignty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 17, 2017, 12:11:44 pm

Tbh, it's not much different fundamentally from various USA states getting massive yearly subsidies from the federal government. Well, other than that European Union is still sadly not a proper federal institution, and thus is unable to send down the Union police to crack down on Greeks' ridiculous tax evasion practices.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 17, 2017, 12:26:12 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 17, 2017, 12:11:44 pm

Tbh, it's not much different fundamentally from various USA states getting massive yearly subsidies from the federal government. Well, other than that European Union is still sadly not a proper federal institution, and thus is unable to send down the Union police to crack down on Greeks' ridiculous tax evasion practices.

Or the Federal military, like when George Washington had to put his foot down over a rebellion (more protest than armed rebellion) over taxes (yeah, I know, the irony). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion)

Though the comparison between the US federal system and the EU federal system breaks down due to the way that they historically started. The US started as a coalition of colonies that, while they had a great deal of autonomy, were never really fully soveriegn. Only Texas (and California for a very brief period before statehood, though I'm not sure what the source is for that) was ever really a soveriegn nation.

Meanwhile, the EU is starting with completely sovereign nations that have differing cultures, languages, politics, etc, which have to give up a small portion of their autonomy. Though they're still vastly more autonomous than a state in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2017, 07:40:13 pm

Tbh I'm not sure if Sweden can even be called a country at this point (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.3723/swedish-court-approves-of-child-marriage.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 17, 2017, 07:43:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2017, 07:40:13 pm

Tbh I'm not sure if Sweden can even be called a country at this point (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.3723/swedish-court-approves-of-child-marriage.html)

[confirmation needed]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2017, 08:10:57 pm

The only thing I'm not familiar with is the reasoning behind the verdict, but the rest is true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 18, 2017, 02:12:51 am

Pedophiles around the world cancel their holidays to Thailand and Brasil and flock to Sweden instead.

Sadly, something similar is the case in the Netherlands. Children over age 16 that arrive married will not be separated from their husbands. But not 14. Or 12. Dem Swedes be insane.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 07:47:08 am

Folks, if you look at the legislation in Western Europe you'll notice that marriage at 16 is legal in many states here, and that marriage at 14 was legal until just a couple years ago. (With consent of the parents, but still.)

Not that I don't think it's twisted to marry a 14-year-old - but this is hardly the case of 'child-rapin' refugees shitting all over our Western values and the courts going along with it' that some make it out to be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 18, 2017, 08:16:12 am

She was married between 10 and 12, not 14.

And you have to be 18 to be married in Sweden because you need to be of age and legally responsible for yourself.

This is literally the case of child-raping refugees shitting all over Swedish values and culture and the courts going along with it.

This isn't the only case either. Because of how overwhelmed the government was by migrant wave the other year, roughly 130 child brides has been allowed to be placed with their rapists instead of properly taken care of.

And lastly. Whatever arse backwards customs are allowed in the rest of Europe isn't of relevance here. This isn't some fucked up canton in Schweiz that just allowed women to vote two decades ago, this is bloody Sweden we're talking about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

Yea its so liberal in Sweden that racists spawned all over the country in the past 20 years.
Outrightly calling ALL of these child marriages a rape situation is one of the highest level of ignorance one can attain.
By imposing your believes of anything on a different mindset you are nothing but a autocrat.
The issue with children being married is in each case to be viewed individually as the situation is different for everyone.
There are cases where it was completely natural for two 14 year olds to marry in countries abroad, if you want to remain
a democracy you must protect the individual freedoms of each subject within the democratic territories.
If you want less immigrants in your country start investing in companies that actually work fairly with third world nations instead of
supporting exploitation companies.

Edit: That site you posted: speisa.com has been criticized for being a publisher of fake news too, so what are you trying to do? I am starting to believe that you are
partaking in a hatespeech/anti-islam propaganda campaign.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 08:35:32 am

I think here it might also be a teeny tiny bit of an issue with a Russian-supported dictator with a penchant for population engineering and hordes of jihadists chopping off body parts left and right. And those didn't come out of nowhere either. 'It's the West's fault' is a bit of an easy answer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:50:32 am

Yeah because it's all Russia's fault

I mean, they're all using Russian weapons and Russian genocidal tactics, how dense you have to be to not see the true cause of all problems in Middle East

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:53:29 am

Jihadist terrorism is funded by saudia arabia for the most part, a country the entire West supports by throwing money for oil at them, as well as even going so far as that we are giving them weapons and weapon factories. Germany has made some great weapons deals in the past decade with them. The saudia arabians promote a form of islam that is very strict and conservative. An islam taking every word of the Quran word for word, while there is other law schools that are actually quite liberal and also focused on making people use their rationality and such. I am not saying that the West is the only culprit, but they sure as hell have their hands in it.

Also Ethiopia, a country where many people in these waves of refugees are coming from. The UN has foreseen the humanitarian crisis that struck the country for the last 5 years, yet nobody reacted to their prediction, not even the UN itself. So the countries that are now complaining about too many refugees should have acted before so they wouldnt have these problems nowadays.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on February 18, 2017, 09:12:30 am

I'm not sure if this news story is real, I've got an instinctual reaction of skepticism against websites I've never heard of having outrageous anger inducing articles with no citations (PPedit: Oh wait, it does have citations, the same color text in my browser as the rest of the text, but they are in sweedish, so I have no idea what's going on except I think I've managed to gather that the man was 21? Or 12. Something like that.)

But damn, if it's real, no I don't think you can just say "Cultural relativism!" and leave it at that. "Case by case" doesn't really work as a basis for establishing laws to protect children from predators, you can't just throw up your hands and say "Culture" in order to allow terrible shit to keep happening, it should be stomped out asap, doesn't matter if it's foreign or domestic. I mean, just imagine a native Swedish family doing this and claiming it was their "culture".

Also wow Detoxicated. You're really going off the handle there, even if Speisa is a fake news site and this is just anti-islam propaganda, at worst you could say people who are speaking out against it have been duped, not that they themselves are partaking in some hideous crusade, at least in an active way. This is a pretty shocking and terrible thing, some anger should be expected even if it's fake. And a few others things:

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

Outrightly calling ALL of these child marriages a rape situation is one of the highest level of ignorance one can attain.

Doesn't matter, because they shouldn't be allowed if they are "appropriate" or not because it's more important to prevent child rape situations then it is to preserve child marriages.

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

By imposing your believes of anything on a different mindset you are nothing but a autocrat.

Honestly, society is all about forcing beliefs onto other people, that's what laws are. That's how society works. There's a line to be draw there, and maybe even fiddled with and pushed back and forth. Child marriages and pedophilia are way way past that line.

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

The issue with children being married is in each case to be viewed individually as the situation is different for everyone.

Too bad, the situation is different for people, but you still have to rule by whatever set of principles are likely to create the greatest good and prevent the greatest harm. Making it so adults can't fuck kids is one of those set of principles, even if the kid is "especially mature" making special cases exceptions just weakens the laws for what seems to be pretty spurious gain. It's hard for me to even imagine what gain could actually be had here, but to play devils advocate (this isn't really proper devil advocate really since I'm not actually arguing against what I think, but I just had to sorta adopt that mindset to imagine a healthy sexual relationship between an adult and a kid) even if there was something like an acceptable pedophilic relationship it failing because of laws would be a minor shame, an unacceptable relationship of such sort succeeding is a great tragedy. It's really not at all close to even in the cost benefits analysis.

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

There are cases where it was completely natural for two 14 year olds to marry in countries abroad

I'm not sure what you mean by natural here, everything is natural in one way or the other. That doesn't mean we should allow it. And to be honest kids marrying adults is probably a bigger issue then kids marrying kids, but neither should be allowed.

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

if you want to remain  a democracy you must protect the individual freedoms of each subject within the democratic territories.

There's a limit to that in all societies, even in democracies. You need to have laws and rules, which by their nature limit freedoms. Laws not allowing pedophiles to fuck kids is in my opinion a fair enough loss of freedom.

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

If you want less immigrants in your country start investing in companies that actually work fairly with third world nations instead of
supporting exploitation companies.

This one I actually agree with so I figured I'd add a little blurb here.

Quote from: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 08:35:32 am

But Russia

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:50:32 am

But Russia (maybe sarcastically?)

I'm not really sure what the whataboutism here is for or even how it's connected to this issue. Even if this was all a Russian plot and every actor within it are Russian spies planted into Sweden to bring down their society it wouldn't change the fact that this is an issue that Sweden should solve.

Edit 2: Ohhhh, is it not. What about Russia, but rather blaming Russia for the immigrants? Sorry, I misunderstood if that's the case and only got it after I posted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 18, 2017, 09:24:11 am

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 08:26:45 am

Yea its so liberal in Sweden that racists spawned all over the country in the past 20 years.
Outrightly calling ALL of these child marriages a rape situation is one of the highest level of ignorance one can attain.
By imposing your believes of anything on a different mindset you are nothing but a autocrat.
The issue with children being married is in each case to be viewed individually as the situation is different for everyone.
There are cases where it was completely natural for two 14 year olds to marry in countries abroad, if you want to remain
a democracy you must protect the individual freedoms of each subject within the democratic territories.
If you want less immigrants in your country start investing in companies that actually work fairly with third world nations instead of
supporting exploitation companies.

Children should not enter marriages. This is not an issue where "each case should be viewed individually". Child marriages should not be allowed. It is not allowed in Sweden. It should not be accepted just because some random family arrived here from a place where it is. Not accepting child marriages does not in the least put Sweden in risk of "not remaining a democracy".

Quote

Edit: That site you posted: speisa.com has been criticized for being a publisher of fake news too, so what are you trying to do? I am starting to believe that you are
partaking in a hatespeech/anti-islam propaganda campaign.

I didn't post that link.  But sure, here is an article from the local newspaper abour it (http://www.barometern.se/kalmar/aisha-14-ar-barnet-som-vantar-barn/), though it is behind a paywall.

I want you understand this though. You are literally saying that criticizing child marriages is partaking in a "hatespeech/anti-islam" campaign. I don't how words for how fucked up that kind of viewpoint is.

Quote from: Criptfeind on February 18, 2017, 09:12:30 am

I'm not sure if this news story is real, I've got an instinctual reaction of skepticism against websites I've never heard of having outrageous anger inducing articles

It is real. I can take a photo of the above pay-walled article from the physical paper if you want, but it will still be in Swedish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 18, 2017, 09:26:54 am

just dissolve the marriage and let them re-marriage when they are old enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 10:45:59 am

I was referring to your use of calling these nations backwards and also referring to all of these instances as rape. If you were wiser in the choosing of your words I would have taken less offense from them. The term child is a subjective one. 150 Years ago it was common to be an adult with 27, some countries state that you are of legal age with 21 some 18, some 16, and I imagine that the countries where such young marriage is allowed they believe adulthood to begin when girls have their first period. Therefore your sentiments on age and childhood are merely subjective. I do not like these marriage situations myself, but to outright call ALL of them a rape situation is just ignorant. Not every muslim family in those countries are assholes, I believe more people are actually genuinely nice people with different education than people here. If the judge allowed this kind of thing, he will have a good reason for it as he is hired by the state to decide on such issues. He is bound by the law-system of his country and cannot derrive from it. Furthermore child marriage has not been legalized in this case, he merely stated an exception to the common rules because it was necessary in his eyes. I do not see it mentioned that he allowed swedes or people already in sweden to engage in such marriages.

Scriver you are calling other european countries backward and outlandish, you insulted all of europe and switzerland and I am not supposed to believe your a hatespeecher. This is not the way to aproach such a delicate issue, and unless you wish to be seen as a hate speaker you should attune your way of writing so it portrays the intelligence you obviously have in a better light than it did in that paragraph of yours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 10:59:24 am

Quote from: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 10:45:59 am

I was referring to your use of calling these nations backwards

But they are backwards, though. I don't think it's a coincidence that countries with these, ahem, "relaxed" standards of morality are also the ones with the least level of technological, economical, and scientific development. Outside of Switzerland, maybe, and they're a bloody special case in many other aspects.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 18, 2017, 11:27:40 am

What is the customs or legal in other places (and also, here's a hint: marrying 10-year olds is was not legal in Syria either, where this family is from). The only thing that matters is what is legal in Sweden. This is not legal. In Sweden, if a child is abused by her family, they should be apprehended and moved to another family. If a man rapes a child, he should be tried for rape. If they want to live in Sweden, they have to follow our laws. And that is what originally happened when child services apprehended the girl. This judgement by the court overrides that decision - which is why it de facto legalises child marriages (and rape of children as long as you are "married").

Here, let me quote the statement of an actual Muslim, and head of the anti-honour culture organisation Never Forget Fadime and Pela, Sara Mohammad: "This is absurd. This ruling legalises pedophilia. It also says that the 14-year-old has been impelling to have sex and wants to stay with the family. This is not giving priority to what is best for the child. You hear the same things from children in drug abusing families and families which abuse children, everybody wants to stay there. What's best for the child is not what the child wants but but what is best for the child. This ruling makes a difference between children and children, it discriminates some children based on religious and tradition's destructive influences on children and their child marriages."

Your way of thinking, that this should be allowed because there is some kind of difference between Swedish and middle-eastern children, is exactly what she is criticising above. Syrian children should not be allowed to be victims just because they're part of a tradition which thinks it is okay to marry and fuck children. They have the exact same rights to be protected from abusive behaviour as Swedish children do.

By the way, for those who are interested, the court ruling has been contested and will be taken up in a higher court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 18, 2017, 12:02:40 pm

Quote from: scriver on February 18, 2017, 11:27:40 am

the court ruling has been contested and will be taken up in a higher court.

And thank fucking goodness for that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 12:17:37 pm

Quote from: scriver on February 18, 2017, 11:27:40 am

Your way of thinking, that this should be allowed because there is some kind of difference between Swedish and middle-eastern children, is exactly what she is criticising above. Syrian children should not be allowed to be victims just because they're part of a tradition which thinks it is okay to marry and fuck children. They have the exact same rights to be protected from abusive behaviour as Swedish children do.

By the way, for those who are interested, the court ruling has been contested and will be taken up in a higher court.

I have never actually posted my way of thinking, I am merely triggering your hatred. The topic you discuss seems very clear to you, but even philosophers of the modern day do not come to a proper conclusion for these mind jumbles. Your belief of justice is merely your belief of justice, and just because we think it is right does not mean our right is right for everyone. It is easy to fall into this pseudo democratic autocratism within your speech if you do not acknowledge these countries, which you clearly don't, as you are still referring to them as backwards.

It is good that this is taken to a higher court as the decision of the judge was not enough to oversee this entirely.
I was merely striking out because to be honest many people on here sound like fascists, who are using words like child-raping refugees, and a comment about liberal blonde swedish that are turned opposite to that. As I was reading this line I was thinking: Oh wait he forgot to add the blue eyes... So two 14 year old were married, weird to me, weird to you apparantly, but it is not necessarily a rape situation. It might be a domestic oppression situation but even that is debatable as you cannot tell just like that. Most people I know had sex with 14, and they didn't consider it rape, they considered it liberation. So one must make a clear distinction between two 14 year olds that are getting married and a situation where an adult has married a 14 year old. There is a huge difference there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 18, 2017, 01:10:06 pm

Your argument is that this is okay because of their culture is different. If this is not your view, then why do you keep bringing it up? Do you think we don't already understand that my sense of justice is just my sense of justice? Moral relativism is nothing new. It also has no relevance on the topic at hand.

This is literally the case of an adult marrying a 12 year old (she herself claims she was 10 and that her papers are faulty) and her becoming pregnant with his child. She is 14. He is a grown man. I called him a child raping immigrant because he literally is a child raping immigrant.

Quote

and a comment about liberal blonde swedish that are turned opposite to that. As I was reading this line I was thinking: Oh wait he forgot to add the blue eyes...

You're just plain making things up at this point. You didn't just add "blue eyes" in your head, you made up the part about blonde hair as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 01:12:18 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 17, 2017, 10:38:44 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2017, 07:40:13 pm

Tbh I'm not sure if Sweden can even be called a country at this point (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.3723/swedish-court-approves-of-child-marriage.html)

It's funny (but also sad) that in the time I've been alive, Sweden has gone from a place memetically associated with sexual liberation and pale, blonde-haired people to pretty much the opposite.

It was not you that is true. In that article it did not state how old the husband was so how can you know. I do not read or write swedish... You are actually giving good arguments and I am glad that you are arguing with me in an acceptable manner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 18, 2017, 02:32:45 pm

Then let us talk about the refugee situation all over, I am sure you're glad that your country is helping refugees out.
I suppose you have an interesting insight on this. One that is worth listening to, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 03:54:19 pm

Yeah, this might be one of the instances where 'lurk more' does apply.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on February 18, 2017, 06:22:56 pm

This is one of the very few cases where I find myself agreeing at least partially with Covanent. I don't give a single flying fuck how you try to justify it, child marriage is not okay, ever. No ifs or buts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 07:01:10 pm

Ooooooor we could not do like the Yankee and embrace pluralism and open debate. Death to solid ideological fronts! Deploy the philosophical machine guns!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:16:54 pm

"Pluralism" and "open debate" is allegedly how many of those "ideological fronts" got formed in the first place. It's because humans are imperfect beings and so in conditions of open debate, they tend to stick together into tribes. Even if dedicated professionals can avoid it due to extensive training in logic, reason and self-doubt, many people can't.

To paraphrase it, the people can't handle the truth. Or better, they're not yet ready for it. The society must be divided in parts, or classes, in order to avoid unqualified people getting access to information that is legitimately dangerous to them and to everyone around them. The only question is how to do it without making it undemocratic and tyrannical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 18, 2017, 08:24:02 pm

Oh, dear. And not a word of it in the papers, either. One suppose it would be "playing into the hands of xenophobic powers" to print it. It is scandalous. Scandalous, that the court saw fit to disreguard the law (for reasons known only to them, but they jolly well should be held on trial themselves), scandalous that paedophilia is being thus turned into a relative matter, and scandalous that it has not been given the attention it deserves.
I just cannot bloody buggery believe it. It makes one want to become a separatist. Believe you me, recent years of the Sweden-Experience^TM has been a very embarrasing and worrying experience, all together. But, this has simply gone too far. The law itself has been circumvented, either out of the cowardice or the corruption of the court, for the benefit of a stranger. It is wrong, and it should never be tolerated. It should not be like this, not in my bloody, buggery country.

Of course, this is turning into a weekly litania of mine. I am sorry that you must endure my muttering and my ravings here, but where better to release steam? Further, for what good it may be, I like to imagine that it might get the impression across that not everyone is in blind favour of what is happening. A canary in the mine; ripping its feathers off.

Quote from: Covenant on February 18, 2017, 06:58:07 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on February 18, 2017, 06:22:56 pm

This is one of the very few cases where I find myself agreeing at least partially with Covanent. I don't give a single flying fuck how you try to justify it, child marriage is not okay, ever. No ifs or buts.

Careful. That's how I get ya ;)

The Covenant train does rather rely on memes instead of rails at certain times, but I find myself aboard it quite often. It tends to go where I am going, and it is a good train.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 08:49:59 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:16:54 pm

]To paraphrase it, the people can't handle the truth. Or better, they're not yet ready for it. The society must be divided in parts, or classes, in order to avoid unqualified people getting access to information that is legitimately dangerous to them and to everyone around them. The only question is how to do it without making it undemocratic and tyrannical.

A good start would be formal training in logic, philosophy and civics as part of education from a young age. It would probably be a better use of time than learning about religions or (non-modern) history.

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 18, 2017, 08:24:02 pm

Oh, dear. And not a word of it in the papers, either. One suppose it would be "playing into the hands of xenophobic powers" to print it. It is scandalous. Scandalous, that the court saw fit to disreguard the law (for reasons known only to them, but they jolly well should be held on trial themselves), scandalous that paedophilia is being thus turned into a relative matter, and scandalous that it has not been given the attention it deserves.
I just cannot bloody buggery believe it. It makes one want to become a separatist. Believe you me, recent years of the Sweden-Experience^TM has been a very embarrasing and worrying experience, all together. But, this has simply gone too far. The law itself has been circumvented, either out of the cowardice or the corruption of the court, for the benefit of a stranger. It is wrong, and it should never be tolerated. It should not be like this, not in my bloody, buggery country.

Paedophilia has always been a relative matter, even within Europe the age of consent ranges from 14 to 18 depending on country. In Greece it's 15, in the UK it's 16 and in Ireland it's 17, Malta it's 18. In several countries it's 14, generally with stipulations. In several countries 12 year olds are able to consent with others close to them in age.

It would have been entirely possible for me at age 16 to have entered a sexual relationship with an older person that wasn't paedophilia by British law, taken a holiday with my partner in N.Ireland, decided to take a walk across the border to check out some things in R.Ireland and have them technically be breaking Irish law for engaging in sexual acts with what Ireland would consider a minor if we did anything sexual while there. Most likely nothing would have come of it because most countries turn a blind eye to stuff like that because it just causes headaches for everyone involved, but the legal difference in consent laws is still there.




Interestingly (to me anyway) the age of consent and the age at which you can get married aren't always the same. Since Sweden is the current conversation topic, the age of consent is 15 according to what I can find, but you can't get married until 18, which seems like a big gap to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2017, 09:12:56 pm

You wanna read something that's right up your alley? Go look up the pedophilia scandal of the German Green Party. You'll have a blast ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 18, 2017, 09:13:50 pm

A "relative matter" as in "relative to race and ethnicity". The age of consent does shift, but what truly irks me is that this particular case seems to suggest that different laws of consent may apply in the same territory depending on race.

Marriage and age of consent are also rather different things. A marriage is a legal and official bond between two individuals, with certain rights and responsibilities, which is why it is reasonable to demand that both parties have reached adulthood.

Quote from: Covenant on February 18, 2017, 09:00:41 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on February 18, 2017, 08:24:02 pm

The Covenant train does rather rely on memes instead of rails at certain times, but I find myself aboard it quite often. It tends to go where I am going, and it is a good train.

You're all such flirts, I'm getting embarrassed.

But anyway. I had to delete a slightly off-topic rant here because I actually found myself getting mad. Paedophilia and child abuse is something I absolutely detest. I think it's a crisis in our time, far beyond the scale of what is thought by the majority of the public. The fact that it is accepted in certain cultures is disgusting enough, but beyond that I think there is a real problem in our own culture, particularly within certain niche groups and by powerful individuals in the upper echelons, ranging from active-exploitation to 'just' a growing normalisation.

Witch-hunts and moral panics aren't the way to deal with these problems, of course. But still. Fuck paedos, in all their forms.

(And in reference to Grim Portent's last post - there is, of course, a debate about age of consent and such, and sometimes we need to accept our differences there. But there has to be a line, or else where does it end? I can't say where that line should be. But I can damn well say that a grown man should be locked up for a long time if he has sex with a 12-year-old (or 10-year-old, as scriver's point about the Syrian girl's document being wrong is correct).)

I do agree. I do not know enough to tell whether or not if the numbers or normalisation of molestations is growing, but it seems quite clear that cases like this will incease. The core question appears to be whether or not some demographics should be allowed to not follow laws that runs counter to their custom.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 09:14:45 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 08:49:59 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:16:54 pm

]To paraphrase it, the people can't handle the truth. Or better, they're not yet ready for it. The society must be divided in parts, or classes, in order to avoid unqualified people getting access to information that is legitimately dangerous to them and to everyone around them. The only question is how to do it without making it undemocratic and tyrannical.

A good start would be formal training in logic, philosophy and civics as part of education from a young age. It would probably be a better use of time than learning about religions or (non-modern) history.

It would be good, but, sadly, those concepts are a little bit too advanced for everyone to handle. And it's not particularly democratic.

I do have an idea on how to combine both democratic and qualification concepts at the same time. The citizens should be asked to pass tests - questions and answers for which should be made by citizens themselves, to ensure the proper democracy aspect (and yes, this means that there'll be inevitably some portion of "troll" or "insane" question/answer pairs - smart people will still tend to answer them better than the dumb ones, if not in a "truthful" manner) - and then the, say, top 20% in terms of number of answered questions, will pass forward to the next level of qualification. You can iterate that to get higher "citizenship" levels, where questions/answers for each level are made up by people of at least one level below and higher.

This "citizenship level" probably really shouldn't have any formal/legal powers, but it should instead serve as an informal sort-of-democratic-indicator of general expertise and being in touch with the people. It could probably be extended to more specific fields of study. Wouldn't work all that well in a polarized society like USA, though. You'd get identical questions where the answer will depend on the party affiliation of whoever was making them. Still, in more sane countries, it could really help to expose the "charismatic bullshitters" a la Trump for what they are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 09:20:43 pm

Personally I care little for most age of consent laws, they're usually not based on anything other than what minimum point made the person writing the laws stop feeling icky or the maximum point a morally protective sort thought they could get away with, neither of which is a good basis for laws, even if it is annoyingly the only method we have to determine some.

Historically they've varied wildly usually depending on how fast children were expected to act like adults, which was frequently as young as 12, younger in some times and places, because of how deadly life could be. The Norse used to marry between 12 and 18 (18 being the extreme outlier) and have kids before 20 because they only got 30 years or so to get their kids to adulthood before they dropped dead of malnutrition, cold, wild animals or getting stabbed by somebody.

Here in the UK it was 12 from 1275 to 1875, then 13 until 1885 when it became 16. It almost became 17 in 1917, but that was beaten by 1 vote.

Ideally I'd like there to be a proper scientific investigation into the way people's brains, personalities and bodies age, done on a properly representative (for the species, which means large sample sizes would be necessary) scale, that served as the basis for consent laws, but I expect the answer would be a fairly useless 'it varies from person to person,' and would take decades in any case, not too mention trying to get funding for such a large project.  ::)

Based on personal experience there are people who are perfectly mature enough from a young age, I would in hindsight say I was mentally suitable from about 14 (never actually bothered until much later on,) but I've met plenty of people well into their thirties and beyond who I would not consider of sufficient mental maturity to consent and most of my peers as a teenager would not have been what I would consider mature enough to consent.

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 09:14:45 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 08:49:59 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 08:16:54 pm

]To paraphrase it, the people can't handle the truth. Or better, they're not yet ready for it. The society must be divided in parts, or classes, in order to avoid unqualified people getting access to information that is legitimately dangerous to them and to everyone around them. The only question is how to do it without making it undemocratic and tyrannical.

A good start would be formal training in logic, philosophy and civics as part of education from a young age. It would probably be a better use of time than learning about religions or (non-modern) history.

It would be good, but, sadly, those concepts are a little bit too advanced for everyone to handle. And it's not particularly democratic.

I do have an idea on how to combine both democratic and qualification concepts at the same time. The citizens should be asked to pass tests - questions and answers for which should be made by citizens themselves, to ensure the proper democracy aspect (and yes, this means that there'll be inevitably some portion of "troll" or "insane" question/answer pairs - smart people will still tend to answer them better than the dumb ones, if not in a "truthful" manner) - and then the, say, top 20% in terms of number of answered questions, will pass forward to the next level of qualification. You can iterate that to get higher "citizenship" levels, where questions/answers for each level are made up by people of at least one level below and higher.

This "citizenship level" probably really shouldn't have any formal/legal powers, but it should instead serve as an informal sort-of-democratic-indicator of general expertise and being in touch with the people. It could probably be extended to more specific fields of study. Wouldn't work all that well in a polarized society like USA, though. You'd get identical questions where the answer will depend on the party affiliation of whoever was making them. Still, in more sane countries, it could really help to expose the "charismatic bullshitters" a la Trump for what they are.

That would also probably result in younger generations not being able to advance in citizenship levels if they held different ideals from the older generations. It would almost certainly have made it hard for pro-racial/LGBT equality movements, which generally got a lot of members and support from the young, get as much steam as they did, if the opponents of such reform could just point to the low civic level scores of the supporters as an excuse to ignore them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 09:32:20 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 09:20:43 pm

That would also probably result in younger generations not being able to advance in citizenship levels if they held different ideals from the older generations. It would almost certainly have made it hard for pro-racial/LGBT equality movements, which generally got a lot of members and support from the young, get as much steam as they did, if the opponents of such reform could just point to the low civic level scores of the supporters as an excuse to ignore them.

That depends on whenever the youth will be able to recognize a question written by "an older generation" person (which could be quite easy, because they tend to have a distinguished writing style) and thus answer it as said person wants it to be answered. Which should be pretty predictable, considering that they don't exactly hide their opinions on the issue.

I mean, it's not exactly a test in the classical sense of the word, as in it's not testing what it says it's testing. It's not testing the knowledge of individual himself and his beliefs, but rather, it's testing knowledge the individual has about all other people in society and what they think. I believe that youth, being more intelligent than the old generation simply due to biological reasons, should be able to win such a contest of wits, if not very easily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 10:42:36 pm

I can't believe it, but I'm somehow agreeing with Covenant on this. Too many people see tradition and culture as a completely useless brake that prevents progress, and they're partially right - it does do that. But it also prevents regression and degradation - and the thing about those is that, if you don't take precautions, they happen so much faster as to potentially nullify all your decades of achieved progress in a matter of years, if not months. Destruction is naturally always much, much easier than creation.

Though, care should be taken to distinguish between tradition and reactionism. First is when people try to maintain what's already in place, preserving your history in its entirety, second is when people try and forcibly turn back the clock and return to some kind of "golden age", while discarding most of everything that happened since that moment. Ever read Victoria, the Fourth-Generation-War (or something like that)? That's how reactionism looks like, in my opinion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 18, 2017, 10:52:54 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 18, 2017, 10:42:36 pm

I can't believe it, but I'm somehow agreeing with Covenant on this. Too many people see tradition and culture as a completely useless brake that prevents progress, and they're partially right - it does do that. But it also prevents regression and degradation - and the thing about those is that, if you don't take precautions, they happen so much faster as to potentially nullify all your decades of achieved progress in a matter of years, if not months. Destruction is naturally always much, much easier than creation.

Though, care should be taken to distinguish between tradition and reactionism. First is when people try to maintain what's already in place, preserving your history in its entirety, second is when people try and forcibly turn back the clock and return to some kind of "golden age", while discarding most of everything that happened since that moment. Ever read Victoria, the Fourth-Generation-War (or something like that)? That's how reactionism looks like, in my opinion.

yes, culture is humanities way for both promoting social stability and passing down knowledge. but their is a difference between culture and beliefs influenced by historical events.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 10:57:39 pm

Personally I would attribute a lot of societal problems to a lack of investment in things that are integral to a properly functioning society.

Ostracizing and excising harmful ideologies is important, but such things don't become problems when there aren't wider systemic problems, like poverty, food and job shortages, wars, lack of housing, underfunded schools/police/etc, lax working safety standards and so on. Nazis and other political extremists don't make headway when things are going well, and the same is generally true of cultural or religious extremist movements. They feed on people who feel alienated and disenfranchised.

For a long time now across Europe a lot of important services have been run ragged by struggling to deal with growing populations and inflation without investment rising fast enough to keep up. Housing and schools in the UK would be my foremost example, maybe police as well I guess. All things that have been struggling to cope with changes for over a decade, but not getting much done for them because the money goes elsewhere, which leaves people in a lot of places feeling abandoned and making problems of poverty and deprivation get worse than they would be if it was caused purely by unemployment.

In regards to interacting with outside cultures and faiths, I honestly would probably deal with them the same way I would deal with the ones already present who have practices I think are bad enough to warrant dealing with. Ban a list of cultural/religious practices and tenets, and exile anyone who practices them. Exile is a difficult thing to do these days, since basically everywhere belongs to someone or is protected from human interference, but there's bound to be some island out there that could be made barely livable and used to dump people on.

Spoiler: Examples (click to show/hide)

As examples of things I would punish in this manner
Any religion/culture that forbids, in text, deed or sermon: exogamy of race culture or religion, homosexuality, transgenderism, polygamy, monogamy, cheating on sexual partners

Any religion/culture that encourages, in text, deed or sermon: the killing of humans(possible exemption for consenting human sacrifice), physical mutilation (possible exemption for consenting adults), harmful irrational behaviour, isolationism, physical violence, verbal violence, proselytization, close kin marriage, arranged marriage (iffy on this one, it's commonly abused, but usually harmless,)

This would probably be a human rights violation, but I do think that it's acceptable for a country to say 'we don't want this here' provided the place they put people isn't significantly worse than the country itself. An island with a bunch of solar panels for power, desalinators for water and some cropland and houses and basic infrastructure wouldn't cost an unreasonable amount for a country to set up and would probably be more humane than prisons are. Probably couldn't support everyone dumped there without major rationing, but that's not something I strictly care about provided it's better than a warzone or a place stricken by famine and disease.




On the tradition subject, I am among those who mostly feel it's a shackle holding people back, but then my own people's culture was actually suppressed by the crown for a long time after some rebellions from the more traditional elements way back. Today most of what I value in my society is less than 70 years old and is embodied by exactly one major political group. I don't give a crap about Gaelic, barely anyone speaks it, I actively view Christianity (and all the Abrahamic faiths to be precise) as an enemy despite having been raised in it, don't care about Burns or Wallace or the old wars between us and England, I have no rose tinted desire to return us to being an industrial nation despite seeing the wrecks of old factories all over my hometown. The extent of 'old' traditions in my culture that I like are my fondness for tartan (iffy on kilts though) and bagpipes, and both of them were outlawed for three centuries. I'm not even going to start on our actively bad traditions like secular violence and rampant alcohol culture, we've only just managed to mostly deal with the former and the latter is proving resilient.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 18, 2017, 11:08:13 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 18, 2017, 11:00:47 pm

I think LW's progressivism-conservatism-libertarianism-nationalism setup makes sense in this regard.

I remember, back in high school, I was having a discussion with my Spanish teacher. It was right after we had gone off to watch a lovely demonstration of various cultural dances and traditions by various South American groups. I was asking her why it feels like I don't have a culture.

While she wasn't able to give me a full answer, at least now I know why I'm even asking the question. I think it was after that that I retreated towards my Canadian heritage (I'd much rather retreat towards that than my father's Croato-Serbian heritage, just saying). At least that way, I'm a bit more balanced.

its hard to see your own culture because it "normal". doesn't help that the modern world tries to reduce all to money at the cost of previously key cultural instutions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 19, 2017, 01:20:33 am

I agree. Tradition can be a shackle, but I believe that it has been unfairly dismissed in this day and age. It is as if there is only one way, and everything that is not new hinders the voyage there. Added to which is the unpleasant undercurrent of "cultural enrichment", which seems to more and more imply replacement.
Of course, heritage should neither be put under glass, never to be used again, nor should it be thrown on the fire, because of its age. It is there to be used.

If I may reach for metaphor again, I'd liken a culture and a people to a ship, and heritage to an anchor. A ship without an anchor is not in any shape to be at sea.

Quote from: Covenant on February 18, 2017, 11:25:53 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 18, 2017, 11:00:47 pm

I think LW's progressivism-conservatism-libertarianism-nationalism setup makes sense in this regard.

I remember, back in high school, I was having a discussion with my Spanish teacher. It was right after we had gone off to watch a lovely demonstration of various cultural dances and traditions by various South American groups. I was asking her why it feels like I don't have a culture.

While she wasn't able to give me a full answer, at least now I know why I'm even asking the question. I think it was after that that I retreated towards my Canadian heritage (I'd much rather retreat towards that than my father's Croato-Serbian heritage, just saying). At least that way, I'm a bit more balanced.

I think it's natural for humans to want a group to belong to. Some people in the modern age increasingly substitute the national, racial or religious groups of old with political or ideological groups.

But for my part, I feel tied to my country and its heritage - my heritage - in a way I never could be to a political movement or a religious group. As a bloke representing seven men called George and five women called Victoria said, I am an Englishman. And what do they know of England, who only England know?

I do have similar feelings. It is rather like a candle in a dark night for me, in these strange times. I cannot quite get that sensation across without being unbearably sentimental, but it is there. It is less of a group which I have membership in. It is more like a gift, something that is mine, to keep and look after. With all its faults and all its luggage, of course, but it matters nonetheless.
Since my faith is partly bound up in that heritage, I cannot quite separate the two, but even without it, the heritage I have been gifted is tremendously valuable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 19, 2017, 05:41:46 am

A Dutch Pastafari who had filed a lawsuit against the state, demanding he be allowed to wear a sieve with spaghetti on his head on his driving license photo, has lost.
He claimed that, since muslimas are allowed to wear a head scarf on their drivers license photo on basis of religious freedom, he should also be allowed to wear spaghetti.

The judge ruled that the church of the FSM does not meet the minimum criteria to be regarded as a religion by Dutch law, so he cannot claim religious freedom.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on February 19, 2017, 06:02:45 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 18, 2017, 09:20:43 pm

Personally I care little for most age of consent laws, they're usually not based on anything other than what minimum point made the person writing the laws stop feeling icky or the maximum point a morally protective sort thought they could get away with, neither of which is a good basis for laws, even if it is annoyingly the only method we have to determine some.

It's complicated by changes in nutrition. You can google it, but puberty today in the west is 5 years earlier than in 1920 according to one site, and i've read that it's 6 years earlier than the 19th century. Also height has increased due to better nutrition. So if you look at a 16 year old today, he/she probably has the physicality of a 21 year old from a century ago, and probably better mental development on average. I'd say 16 (like Australia) is a good rule of thumb however. But everything related should be the same age. Here you could legally bonk as many 16-17 year olds as you like, but if they sexted you a pic, you'd go to jail as a pedo. Which is pretty silly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 19, 2017, 11:45:05 am

So I was wondering Covenant, if one, who has the ability to understand the complexities of a neo-liberal capitalist world policies and its consequences for the third-world, suggests that people fleeing from countries being exploited by dictators that are empowered by foreign powers and corporations, with no real hope that this could be changed from within their country, to be shot down at the border, and then later on the same one is making a comment about the blonde swedish liberals turning opposite, how can that one not be seen as a hate speaker?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 19, 2017, 11:53:29 am

I think it's because "hate speech" implies actual hate of other people. Not the "neutral indifference to their fate", which is what Covenant is about. You can not hate people and not care about their well-being at the same time. It's not a one-bit slider where you either love them and want to help them, or you hate them and want to hurt them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 20, 2017, 10:01:13 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 19, 2017, 05:41:46 am

A Dutch Pastafari who had filed a lawsuit against the state, demanding he be allowed to wear a sieve with spaghetti on his head on his driving license photo, has lost.
He claimed that, since muslimas are allowed to wear a head scarf on their drivers license photo on basis of religious freedom, he should also be allowed to wear spaghetti.

The judge ruled that the church of the FSM does not meet the minimum criteria to be regarded as a religion by Dutch law, so he cannot claim religious freedom.

What are those minimum criteria?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on February 20, 2017, 10:03:19 am

The holy book needs to be old enough that the majority of it isn't applied because it's either obsolete or too much of a hassle to do so :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 20, 2017, 01:17:23 pm

Quote from: TheBiggerFish on February 20, 2017, 10:01:13 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 19, 2017, 05:41:46 am

A Dutch Pastafari who had filed a lawsuit against the state, demanding he be allowed to wear a sieve with spaghetti on his head on his driving license photo, has lost.
He claimed that, since muslimas are allowed to wear a head scarf on their drivers license photo on basis of religious freedom, he should also be allowed to wear spaghetti.

The judge ruled that the church of the FSM does not meet the minimum criteria to be regarded as a religion by Dutch law, so he cannot claim religious freedom.

What are those minimum criteria?

No idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 20, 2017, 01:48:32 pm

Dutch religious freedom now officially lesser than that of Australia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 20, 2017, 01:57:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 19, 2017, 05:41:46 am

A Dutch Pastafari who had filed a lawsuit against the state, demanding he be allowed to wear a sieve with spaghetti on his head on his driving license photo, has lost.
He claimed that, since muslimas are allowed to wear a head scarf on their drivers license photo on basis of religious freedom, he should also be allowed to wear spaghetti.

The judge ruled that the church of the FSM does not meet the minimum criteria to be regarded as a religion by Dutch law, so he cannot claim religious freedom.

Rather dubious verdict considering the church of the FSM was recognised as an official church last year.

http://nos.nl/op3/artikel/2083186-vanaf-nu-telt-het-vliegend-spaghettimonster-geloof-echt-mee.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 20, 2017, 02:09:19 pm

Quote from: Antioch on February 20, 2017, 01:57:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 19, 2017, 05:41:46 am

A Dutch Pastafari who had filed a lawsuit against the state, demanding he be allowed to wear a sieve with spaghetti on his head on his driving license photo, has lost.
He claimed that, since muslimas are allowed to wear a head scarf on their drivers license photo on basis of religious freedom, he should also be allowed to wear spaghetti.

The judge ruled that the church of the FSM does not meet the minimum criteria to be regarded as a religion by Dutch law, so he cannot claim religious freedom.

Rather dubious verdict considering the church of the FSM was recognised as an official church last year.

http://nos.nl/op3/artikel/2083186-vanaf-nu-telt-het-vliegend-spaghettimonster-geloof-echt-mee.html (http://nos.nl/op3/artikel/2083186-vanaf-nu-telt-het-vliegend-spaghettimonster-geloof-echt-mee.html)

Dubious indeed. Still, bureaucratically not impossible. A registration with the Kamer van Koophandel means the church is accepted as a business, under the business category church (which amongst others exempts them from most company taxes). That does not nescessarily mean it is recognized by law as a religion. De Kamer van Koophandel does not have the authority to declare that.
Not sure which government agency would have that authority, but surely not the Kamer van Koophandel (which is the Dutch version of the Chamber of Commerce, nothing more, nothing less).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 02:19:53 am

The Chamber of Commerce is just a lobby thing, they can't decide about tax status.

They probably have a test based in parts on the number of members or something. In Belgium, the state recognizes seven religions (who gets stuff like subsidies for priest salaries, the right to send chaplains or equivalent in prisons, etc etc): Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and ... "Organized Secularism".

So yeah, we have state-paid atheism priests.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 21, 2017, 05:42:43 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 02:19:53 am

The Chamber of Commerce is just a lobby thing, they can't decide about tax status.

They probably have a test based in parts on the number of members or something. In Belgium, the state recognizes seven religions (who gets stuff like subsidies for priest salaries, the right to send chaplains or equivalent in prisons, etc etc): Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and ... "Organized Secularism".

So yeah, we have state-paid atheism priests.  :P

Hinduism is not a religion in Belgium? Makes sense, it's only the third or fourth largest religion in the world.
Also, how can organised secularism be a religion? You can have christian organised secularists, jewish organised secularists, muslim organised secularists, atheist organised secularists...

secularism is a political philosophy, not a religion.

Over here, chamber of commerce is not just a lobby thing. It's the official state office where you register a business, and get a business number and classification.
They're not into lobbying. Just filled to the brim with civil servants providing bureaucratic services.

Lobbying is done by the specific branche organisations, like the LTO (Land en Tuinbouw Organisatie) for agriculture.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 06:18:13 am

Well, not enough Hindus in Belgium to get the recognition. That or they haven't filled in the paperwork for recognition yet. The list of official requirements are:

• Have a significative number of faithful
• Have an institution that can represent the religion to the authorities
• Be established in the country for several decades
• Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
• Don't develop activities that goes against the social order

"Organized Secularism" is used here as a name by a bunch of atheist association that offers services normally offered by religions (organizing funerals ceremonies, supporting people in jail and co...) Structuring themselves as a religion allows them to get funding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 21, 2017, 06:33:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 06:18:13 am

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order

That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 21, 2017, 07:21:26 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 21, 2017, 06:33:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 06:18:13 am

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order

That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.

It's how European governments maintain the established social order - by reserving the right to ban anything that goes against it. That's also the reason why Europe has significantly less armed citizens.

So far, it seems to be working better than American model, given that they still have to do anything as bad as electing Trump. Hopefully, it'll stay that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 07:53:36 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 21, 2017, 06:33:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 21, 2017, 06:18:13 am

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order

That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.

Why? It's not like non-official religion are banned, they just don't get subsidies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 21, 2017, 10:45:29 am

A majority of Dutch parliament voted for a new cannabis law, which will make the farming and transporting of cannabis legal. The idea is to rob the organised crime from one of their main sources of income, by allowing commercial farming of cannabis by government approved companies.
The law still needs to pass in Senate before it can be enacted.

Dang - it's about time. They've tried this a few times over the past decade, but it never passed parliament. They're right about it being a major source of income for organised crime. I'll be glad if it passes, so I know my money I spend at the (already legal) coffeeshop has less chance of ending up funding crime.

Dutch police have expressed concern though. They fear legal pot farmers will become targets of violent raids by criminals.
They already got a shitstorm over their concern in the media. As in - police shouldn't be intimidated by criminal threats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 21, 2017, 12:38:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 21, 2017, 10:45:29 am

A majority of Dutch parliament voted for a new cannabis law, which will make the farming and transporting of cannabis legal. The idea is to rob the organised crime from one of their main sources of income, by allowing commercial farming of cannabis by government approved companies.
The law still needs to pass in Senate before it can be enacted.

Dang - it's about time. They've tried this a few times over the past decade, but it never passed parliament. They're right about it being a major source of income for organised crime. I'll be glad if it passes, so I know my money I spend at the (already legal) coffeeshop has less chance of ending up funding crime.

Dutch police have expressed concern though. They fear legal pot farmers will become targets of violent raids by criminals.
They already got a shitstorm over their concern in the media. As in - police shouldn't be intimidated by criminal threats.

about damn time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 21, 2017, 12:53:07 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 21, 2017, 12:32:49 pm

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/swedish-police-investigate-riot-predominantly-immigrant-suburb/) I'm hearing about?

I know nothing about these riots in particular, but attacking police, ambulances, and firetrucks is an almost everyday occurence (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/attacker-mot-blaljus-personal-okar-i-landet/) in some suburbs these days (these are usually the same places that was listed in a police statistics report last year as places where the police de facto have no authority over).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 21, 2017, 01:10:27 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 21, 2017, 12:32:49 pm

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/swedish-police-investigate-riot-predominantly-immigrant-suburb/) I'm hearing about?

These riots are happening in a government-built district called Rinkeby (more like a self-contained mini-city, really) that was built in 60s-70s without a police station for unknown reasons and is populated mainly (80-90%) by immigrants, which ensued in a stable criminal presence in the area, especially after most of the other government offices and banks in the area have been shut down due to budget cuts. Recently, police has been trying to reintroduce themselves by patrolling the district and building up a police station, and as a result, there's some conflicts going on.

All of that is from a Swedish forum person, and are sourced to a Swedish newspaper DN, which has its own website apparently. I did not check it, but the whole "district without a police station" seems to be something that's very easy to fact-check and is something outlandish enough to be hard to invent out of whole cloth.

At least now I understand from where the persistent "no-go zones" rumours appear. This "district" is technically not a "no-go" zone, the police does try to enforce law over there, but the whole "no police station" aspect makes it de-facto as if it was a no-go zone, for the majority of the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 21, 2017, 02:22:05 pm

As far as I know the talk about "no-go zones" are from things such at this police rapport (https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Ovriga%20rapporter/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf) and it's follow up (https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/%25C3%2596vriga%20rapporter/Utsatta%20omr%25C3%25A5den%20-%20sociala%20risker%20kollektiv%20f%25C3%25B6rm%25C3%25A5ga%20och%20o%25C3%25B6nskade%20h%25C3%25A4ndelser%20(2).pdf) (what I was referring to in my previous post), which lists 55 "vulnerable" areas, of which 15 are considered "particularly vulnerable" areas where the police have little authority and criminal gangs can basically do whatever they want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 21, 2017, 03:49:03 pm

I wouldn't be able to say either way, I don't feel I remember very well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 21, 2017, 05:56:57 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 21, 2017, 12:32:49 pm

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/swedish-police-investigate-riot-predominantly-immigrant-suburb/) I'm hearing about?

Can do, Sir! Well, scriver is far more quick on the ball, I must say.

It is, in all honestly, not anything particular, this riot. Not in the great scheme of things. I suppose that is a symptom in and off itself, but such areas tends to flare up rather reguraly. Usually (such as in this case) it is in response to someone being arrested by the police. They arrive, carry out the arrest, and the suspect's friends either comes rushing to disrupt the arrest, or go on a semi-organised rampage in reponse. Although it changes somewhat case-by-case, I think that it is fair to say that the main motivation is a vague "fuck da poleez". Policemen, fire engines and other authorities, as it where, get stones pitched at them, and unattended cars get torched. These flare-ups are rather short-lived, it is almost always over come morning.

It is also worth noting that there is a select group of people that are involved in these riots. It is usually young, semi-criminal (or gang prospects, trying to earn their spurs) men, and they do not have popular support in the neighbourhood. Indeed, policemen responding to a similar flare-up in another city noted that people cheered for them from windows and balconies. However, people are naturally afraid to confront the hoodlums openly, and they do affect how people live their lives. While the criminal gangs do not effectively rule these areas as they wish, they have a very large influence.

Now, Rinkeby in particular is a bit of a back-water. 'In Stockholm', as noted by the headline, is not entirely true, it is a low-market suburb at the outskirts (an old ABC suburb, somewhat equivolent to the council estate blocks in England). Other than that, the article you linked is an accurate summary. The only unusual element to this particular flare-up was that one police patrol were so seriously troubled that they had to open fire. That is rather unusual (and I imagined it stained a few pairs of 'genuine' gangzta underpants, as well), although warning shots have been fired before.
As of now, it is the usual: social agencies are running through their usual "we will focus on this, that and this" routine and the police stepping up their patrols in the area. There is, as far as I can find, no particularly different re-action to this case, and I fear it will mostly be business as usual, for the time being.

Quote from: Sergarr on February 21, 2017, 01:10:27 pm

Quote from: Covenant on February 21, 2017, 12:32:49 pm

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/21/swedish-police-investigate-riot-predominantly-immigrant-suburb/) I'm hearing about?

These riots are happening in a government-built district called Rinkeby (more like a self-contained mini-city, really) that was built in 60s-70s without a police station for unknown reasons and is populated mainly (80-90%) by immigrants, which ensued in a stable criminal presence in the area, especially after most of the other government offices and banks in the area have been shut down due to budget cuts. Recently, police has been trying to reintroduce themselves by patrolling the district and building up a police station, and as a result, there's some conflicts going on.

All of that is from a Swedish forum person, and are sourced to a Swedish newspaper DN, which has its own website apparently. I did not check it, but the whole "district without a police station" seems to be something that's very easy to fact-check and is something outlandish enough to be hard to invent out of whole cloth.

At least now I understand from where the persistent "no-go zones" rumours appear. This "district" is technically not a "no-go" zone, the police does try to enforce law over there, but the whole "no police station" aspect makes it de-facto as if it was a no-go zone, for the majority of the time.

Yes, it can be a rather confusing misunderstanding, and I was rather confused about that, myself. As a special treat for the thread; A Very Brief Run-Down of the Swedish Suburbian Districts.

These areas (Rosengård, Hammarkullen, Husby, Rinkeby, Hjällbo, I shall be making a riot bingo one of these days, you see) are very similar. They are in different cities, but have the same properties; they are mainly areas of low-income and low-education. They tend to be mainly populated by immigrants, first to third generation, usually of the same or similar ethnicities. Actual local conditions differ, but it is a good average.

They are rather like self-contained mini-cities; that was the idea when they were built during the 1960's to the 1970's, in a massive government construction effort named The Million Programme (named after the ambition of building one million new dwellings). The idea was to provide most of the services an average citizen could need in one area, with good public transport routes to the city proper.
Unfortunately, that only works for as long as authorities (civil and state) remain a presence in these centres, and there has been an awful lot of ill-advised centralisation in the last decades. Most cities only have one central police station, for instance, and many other government offices of various sorts, like social offices, simply are not available in many suburbs any more. And, as noted by Sergarr, neither are other important institutions, like banks and special retailers. This creates a very real sensation of isolation, and creates an estrangement with other parts of the city and of society.
That is not to say that it is the same in all areas. Some are recovering, as this isolation is becoming more known, and more is being done to re-bind these neighbourhoods back into the city. Indeed, repairing the cracks in the old Million Programme is, if not well under way, at least on-going.

About No-Go Zones: As far as I know, there are no zones where the police simply will not go for fear of being hurt, but there are areas where they know they are not welcome, and will need to be careful.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 21, 2017, 08:17:50 pm

Just finished catching up to the Euro jokes thread and dang, this is the best politics thread by far

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 12:15:57 am

Dutch Moroccan rapper Ismo has been convicted by a high court to a fine of 1500 euros for including the lines "I don't shake hands with faggots and I hate jews more than I hate the nazis" in one of his songs.

Earlier, a judge had cleared him of hatespeech charges, argueing that he was allowed to say that under free speech laws, but the appeal High Court destroyed that earlier verdict.

Ismo's statement that he didn't mean homosexual persons with the word 'faggots' was deemed incredible, nor was his argument that bad language is an inherent part of rap music appreciated by the court.

Serves him right. Punishment is low though. 1500 euros, of which 500 conditional.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 22, 2017, 12:31:51 am

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. The state doesn't have any legitimate interest in censoring music.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on February 22, 2017, 12:50:22 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 12:15:57 am

1500 euros, of which 500 conditional.

It may not be legitimate, but I believe I've found the interest...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 01:21:35 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 22, 2017, 12:31:51 am

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. The state doesn't have any legitimate interest in censoring music.

The music isn't censored. You can still buy his song in the music store. He got convicted for hatespeech, the song didn't get censored. I fully agree with the verdict. He is a role model for Dutch (-moroccan) youth. He's inciting his audience to hate jews and gays. The court was right to convict him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wobbly on February 22, 2017, 01:29:41 am

Wouldn't surprise me if he earns more in extra sales then the fine, though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 01:30:54 am

Which is why I said the fine is very low.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 22, 2017, 01:49:04 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 01:21:35 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 22, 2017, 12:31:51 am

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. The state doesn't have any legitimate interest in censoring music.

The music isn't censored. You can still buy his song in the music store. He got convicted for hatespeech, the song didn't get censored. I fully agree with the verdict. He is a role model for Dutch (-moroccan) youth. He's inciting his audience to hate jews and gays. The court was right to convict him.

It's a chilling effect, and knowledge of such a verdict being accepted will cow a lot more people than those who want to put slurs in music. Censorship can be much more subtle than "not allowed", and these days that's the way you're likely to go about it. There is no legal responsibility to be a good role model to young people.

And, most centrally, I believe in a universal freedom of speech and of art. Yes, yes, I know you don't think that's freedom of speech. Nobody on opposite sides of this has ever come to an agreement on it, for all the times it has come up in the forum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 22, 2017, 02:55:00 am

I dont understand the verdict tbh. If its hate speech and promotes cri,e or whatnot then I could understand banning it. If it's not, its not.  But to say it is, fine the author, and allow for its sale, is a bit contradictory tbh.

Then again, I'm not sure how effective is censorship at repressing this shit tbh.  I tend to agree with MSH on principle.  But my main sentiment is bafflement because its so much of a half measure

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2017, 09:31:15 am

Dude all rap promotes crime and discrimination, the hell are you gonna ban everything that isn't Macklemore chanting 'i <3 gay'
Too much power to have. It will get abused for power consolidation every time, social engineering comes easy when you can legally change what is perceived as cool and popular

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 22, 2017, 09:39:07 am

I'm fairly ok with people using social engineering to make not hating gays and jews ok.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 22, 2017, 10:36:24 am

Quote from: Sheb on February 22, 2017, 09:39:07 am

I'm fairly ok with people using social engineering to make not hating gays and jews ok.

And mass surveillance was brought in on the pretense of catching pedophiles and terrorists, you think my reservations would be an endorsement of either? Fuck no, it's because this is too much power and it will be abused. You do not simply give a small number of people the power to socially engineer all of society and expect them to not employ that for their own ends

The stated goals of tolerance, in that it will fail. Just look at how weak the sentencing was for this guy, or ffs how the Streisand effect made that shoah ananas guy go from being this backwater hack to an international antihero fighting the government and meeting Presidents. In the UK we're rather more nervous about this kind of stuff because through anti-pedo, anti-terror, anti-piracy and anti-hate laws we lost a whole lot of free speech (least, not without surveillance or data retention) and for the time being will never get that back. In contemporary times we started skirting into rather Swedish territory, where for example criticizing open borders would get you done in for being a racist hatemonger - an attack which would be career ending for most. We even got an MP investigating the Asian rape gangs arrested for hate speech lmao, an echo of the Swedish and German states actions years early - and even recently, one of our highest ministers just got reported for hate speech by a Professor who didn't even listen to her speech (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/12/amber-rudds-conservative-party-speech-treated-hate-incident/), because it's all about social engineering to push an agenda with moral superiority. Big teflon politicians can shrug off this kinda shit, but Jamal Jimmy Chucklefuck down the block doesn't stand a chance. Then of course we've got this fucked up shit where cartoon frogs can retroactively become hate symbols because someone said so.

In regards to the rapping medium in Netherlands, the whole medium is dangerous, hateful, vice incarnate and that is why young edgy kids listen to it. Young edgy kids like simulated danger, like hateful music that tells them to fuck their life up and die young. If you wish to embark on this campaign the resources you have to mobilize to shut down a whole medium is pretty vast, which gives whoever's mobilizing a great deal of power. They won't win either since edgy kids like the idea of fighting against big powerful foes with little effort (such as by spreading rap music), so it only propels the popularity further - technological advancement has made it so that if you shut down one rapper, already there will be mirrors and torrents multiplying like rats. Let's not even go into who is the arbiter of what constitutes illegal speech cos lmao you can show mock execution of politicians for being Jews, A OK, because intersectionality (http://www.ibtimes.com/geert-wilders-execution-video-rapper-hozny-takes-cheap-shot-anti-islam-dutch-politician-calls-it)

It all strikes me of attacking the symptoms, protecting the illness whilst the doctor has gone mad with power. Just look at who this fiasco ultimately serves:
“I hate those fucking Jews more than the Nazis,” “don’t shake hands with faggots.”
Whatever Dutch newspaper wrote this left out 'and “don’t believe in anything but the Koran.”  (http://www.timesofisrael.com/dutch-muslim-rapper-i-hate-jews-more-than-nazis/) That context control is probably for the benefit of Dutch whites more than Moroccans, unless we are to pretend that the real issue the Netherlands has created is violent video games and hip hop

It amuses me to no end that a few years ago even on this forum it was a laughable notion that cultural enrichment would ever occur in reality, and now that yesterday's irony is today's sincerity, this is how the bold and powerful Europe responds. Banning hijabs and rap music
wtf, it's like consistently proposing the impossible whilst ignoring the practical

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 22, 2017, 11:01:46 am

A French website wants Obama to run for French presidency, lol (http://www.politico.eu/article/oui-on-peut-calls-for-obama-to-contest-french-election/). Cute, France. But don't you need a French citizenship in order to be President there? Seems like a logical thing to be one.

Seriously though, does anybody think that Obama would really want to jump straight back into politics after 8 years?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 22, 2017, 11:49:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 12:15:57 am

Dutch Moroccan rapper Ismo has been convicted by a high court to a fine of 1500 euros for including the lines "I don't shake hands with faggots and I hate jews more than I hate the nazis" in one of his songs.

Earlier, a judge had cleared him of hatespeech charges, argueing that he was allowed to say that under free speech laws, but the appeal High Court destroyed that earlier verdict.

Ismo's statement that he didn't mean homosexual persons with the word 'faggots' was deemed incredible, nor was his argument that bad language is an inherent part of rap music appreciated by the court.

Serves him right. Punishment is low though. 1500 euros, of which 500 conditional.

Quote from: martinuzz on February 22, 2017, 01:21:35 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 22, 2017, 12:31:51 am

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. The state doesn't have any legitimate interest in censoring music.

The music isn't censored. You can still buy his song in the music store. He got convicted for hatespeech, the song didn't get censored. I fully agree with the verdict. He is a role model for Dutch (-moroccan) youth. He's inciting his audience to hate jews and gays. The court was right to convict him.

I agree, the Union must enforce proper culture on its citizens by punishing any socially unacceptable behavior. But why stop at racist slurs? We must ban all slurs within the artistic media, for the sake of our children's mental health! You play black metal? Pay the fine and say "thanks" that you haven't been sent to jail, you deviant!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 22, 2017, 11:57:24 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 22, 2017, 11:01:46 am

A French website wants Obama to run for French presidency, lol (http://www.politico.eu/article/oui-on-peut-calls-for-obama-to-contest-french-election/). Cute, France. But don't you need a French citizenship in order to be President there? Seems like a logical thing to be one.

Seriously though, does anybody think that Obama would really want to jump straight back into politics after 8 years?

he could get a citizenship if he served in the French Foreign Legion!
https://youtu.be/x7DNQmSwSuU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 24, 2017, 04:08:25 pm

Lol at Dutch bureaucracy. Starting next year, mandatory military service will no longer be for men only, but also for women.

But since our military service has been adjourned indefinitly in 1997, nothing will change in practice. There's no military service, we only have a professional standing army.

It does mean however that if at any time in the future military service is resumed, the feminists will be happy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 24, 2017, 04:15:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 24, 2017, 04:08:25 pm

Lol at Dutch bureaucracy. Starting next year, mandatory military service will no longer be for men only, but also for women.

But since our military service has been adjourned indefinitly in 1997, nothing will change in practice. There's no military service, we only have a professional standing army.

It does mean however that if at any time in the future military service is resumed, the feminists will be happy.

Why were women exempt in the first place, there is a lot more work in the military than just front-line duty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 24, 2017, 04:18:45 pm

Quote from: Antioch on February 24, 2017, 04:15:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 24, 2017, 04:08:25 pm

Lol at Dutch bureaucracy. Starting next year, mandatory military service will no longer be for men only, but also for women.

But since our military service has been adjourned indefinitly in 1997, nothing will change in practice. There's no military service, we only have a professional standing army.

It does mean however that if at any time in the future military service is resumed, the feminists will be happy.

Why were women exempt in the first place, there is a lot more work in the military than just front-line duty.

I think he meant the draft, just means that women won't be exempt from the draft or mandatory military service if they ever reinstate it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 24, 2017, 04:21:28 pm

For some reason the argument the Defense department used was that women had 'too much distance from the job market'.
Basically Defense department was an old bastion of christian-machistic tradition, until we got our first female minister of Defense 8 years ago.

Quote from: smjjames on February 24, 2017, 04:18:45 pm

I think he meant the draft, just means that women won't be exempt from the draft or mandatory military service if they ever reinstate it.

Correct. I wasn't sure whether to use draft or not. Is it called draft during peacetime?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 05:49:00 am

Damn, shortage of nurses I reported about earlier is no joke.
A hospital in the southwest of Netherlands has had a pemanent job opening listed for years now, for emergency room nurses.
The last time they had an applicant, was 3 years ago. Ever since, half a dozen or more nurses have quit their jobs (retirement age, mostly).

So now they're forced to work with interns. 1 out of 3 emergency room nurses is an intern, despite national recommendation being maximum 1 out of 6.

What's worse, the economy is growing. The Netherlands has come out of the crisis well, and economic prospects are looking up. We even have a national budget surplus this year. That's bad, because when economy is doing well, less people choose the healthcare profession.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 25, 2017, 06:16:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 05:49:00 am

Damn, shortage of nurses I reported about earlier is no joke.
A hospital in the southwest of Netherlands has had a pemanent job opening listed for years now, for emergency room nurses.
The last time they had an applicant, was 3 years ago. Ever since, half a dozen or more nurses have quit their jobs (retirement age, mostly).

So now they're forced to work with interns. 1 out of 3 emergency room nurses is an intern, despite national recommendation being maximum 1 out of 6.

What's worse, the economy is growing. The Netherlands has come out of the crisis well, and economic prospects are looking up. We even have a national budget surplus this year. That's bad, because when economy is doing well, less people choose the healthcare profession.

If you haven't had an applicant in 3 years, MAYBE you aren't paying enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 06:28:05 am

That's not the issue (at least not for that specific hospital. In general, yeah nurses could be better paid across the whole country to make the studies more attractive). The issue is, there aren't enough nurses. That hospital isn't the only one with shortages. What is a factor though, is that it is in the province of Zeeland, which is the least attractive province of the Netherlands for young people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 25, 2017, 07:49:08 am

Are the courses needed for nursing qualifications subsidized in the Netherlands? One of the easiest ways to increase the number of nurses available is to make it cheaper to learn to be one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 07:57:53 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on February 25, 2017, 07:49:08 am

Are the courses needed for nursing qualifications subsidized in the Netherlands? One of the easiest ways to increase the number of nurses available is to make it cheaper to learn to be one.

Everyone can get government funding for any study. However, it's a loan, so you'll need to repay it. And the past 2 decades saw so many budget cuts that it's not enough to pay studies and cost of living. Students without rich parents will need to have a side job next to their studies. I wasn't kidding last week when I wrote that prostitution is a thing amongst female students.

Making studies cheaper would help a bit. Increasing wages in the lower healthcare sector would probably also help. Main problem is that student influx can't keep up with population aging causing increased healthcare demand. We need more immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 25, 2017, 08:30:58 am

Alternatively, more babies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 08:49:18 am

Or less old people. As a side bonus, that would help reducing our CO2 emissions. /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 25, 2017, 09:24:07 am

Quote from: da_nang on February 25, 2017, 08:30:58 am

Alternatively, more babies.

More babies requires more nurses to help deliver and provide post natal care. It's a self worsening problem.

What you need is to make nursing training cheaper so you get more home grown nurses half a decade down the line, but you also need immigrant nurses to make up the difference in meantime. Immigrants are a patch job when it comes to educated workers, unless you get rid of enough other people their age that they don't just make the next age bomb bigger.

Soylent green is always an option to deal with the elderly problem though. /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 25, 2017, 10:04:53 am

Alternatively, less people trying to make a living out of degrees with no openings rather than educating themselves in areas where jobs exist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2017, 12:29:17 pm

I have a friendly EU related joke for Polish forumites

Spoiler: in Hoi IV you can make Wojtek a general (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/9NTZy5v.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 25, 2017, 12:29:51 pm

Ha!  Nice!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 04:45:38 pm

Speaking of Poland, the owner of the Polish transport company that owned the truck that drove into a crowd in Berlin during christmas, has asked Germany on Polish national TV to please give his truck back, fast.
The owner (and brother of the dead Polish truck driver killed by the terrorist), Ariel Zurawski, claims that the loss of the truck has left him unable to do his work, and if he doesn't get it back soon, his company will be declared bankrupt.
He says he does not want to claim money from the German government, he just wants his truck back so he can resume his business and not go bankrupt.

Chances are slim though he will see his truck again. It's still evidence in an ongoing anti-terrorist investigation. And when that's done, a German museum has already called dibs on it to display it, claiming it has societal and historical value.

After the TV broadcast, people from around the globe are spontaneously offering donations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 25, 2017, 05:08:53 pm

Under what fucking bullshit does a German museum have any right to steal things?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on February 25, 2017, 05:37:07 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 25, 2017, 05:08:53 pm

Under what fucking bullshit does a German museum have any right to steal things?

If they want it, they ought to pay him for it, or buy him a new one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on February 25, 2017, 05:42:29 pm

Yeah, how would that even work, after it's processed it goes onto an auction or something? Or do they give it to whatever organisation calls dibs, original owner be damned.

I mean, could this be considered an act of international thievery? What will they call dibs on next, Danzig? How far will German greed go!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 25, 2017, 05:48:35 pm

Quote from: Jopax on February 25, 2017, 05:42:29 pm

Yeah, how would that even work, after it's processed it goes onto an auction or something? Or do they give it to whatever organisation calls dibs, original owner be damned.

I mean, could this be considered an act of international thievery? What will they call dibs on next, Danzig? How far will German greed go!?

Wel it's not so much calling dibs, as declaring the truck to be an 'object of national historical importance'. That's the argument used by the Haus der Geschichte (House of History) museum in Bonn. But yeah, fully agree that if a museum does want it, it should reimburse the owner.

Or rather, the German state should have reimbursed him after they seized it for their criminal investigation. Although they are probably not legally obliged to do so, it would have been a nice gesture towards a man who lost not just his truck, but also his brother.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 25, 2017, 05:50:10 pm

Quote from: Jopax on February 25, 2017, 05:42:29 pm

Yeah, how would that even work, after it's processed it goes onto an auction or something? Or do they give it to whatever organisation calls dibs, original owner be damned.

I mean, could this be considered an act of international thievery? What will they call dibs on next, Danzig? How far will German greed go!?

I thought Danzig was a German city (dang EUIV!), until I wiki'd it, it's Polish. *runs screaming from a horde of angry hussars*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2017, 06:08:45 pm

Well, depends. It's kinda like the Königsberg situation, I think - it's just that we're buddies with the Poles and so nobody gives a shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2017, 10:08:52 am

No, it doesn't depend. It's just the German name of a Polish city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 10:26:55 am

It also depends on your usage of adjectives like 'German'. For example, it would hardly be a stretch to call a village within the country of Belgium populated by German-speaking people 'German'. Especially in an increasingly post-national Europe I think there is great value in paying attention to the nuances of these matters, as it increases our awareness of our shared, intertwined history.

'Historically German' would be the preferred phrasing here, I think. To say that Danzig has nothing to do with Germany at all certainly is wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 10:31:09 am

It's historically German, true, I was just going 'oops, I thought it was German based on the name alone'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 26, 2017, 10:32:57 am

German Interior Ministry releases preliminary figures on attacks on migrants in 2016 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39096833).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on February 26, 2017, 10:51:46 am

This is an only increasing problem in germany...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2017, 11:33:31 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 10:26:55 am

It also depends on your usage of adjectives like 'German'. For example, it would hardly be a stretch to call a village within the country of Belgium populated by German-speaking people 'German'. Especially in an increasingly post-national Europe I think there is great value in paying attention to the nuances of these matters, as it increases our awareness of our shared, intertwined history.

'Historically German' would be the preferred phrasing here, I think. To say that Danzig has nothing to do with Germany at all certainly is wrong.

If you mean the time during which the Germans were genociding Pomeranians ans Prussians to their hearts' content, I suppose we can agree on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 26, 2017, 11:45:53 am

Prussians? I thought Prussia was pretty much the core of Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2017, 12:03:11 pm

No, the Prussians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians) was a Baltic people living just above Poland until the Germans decided they needed more living space for Christ and exterminated them, then started calling the Germans who lived there afterwards Prussians to really spit on the graves of the original people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 01:58:16 pm

And I'm suuuuuure you can show me that this genociding was still taking place at the start of the 20th century, no? Else by the same standard London is not an English city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 26, 2017, 02:01:17 pm

Must we do this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 02:04:39 pm

Sorry, I'll stop. You know how it is, I don't like scriver, scriver doesn't like me, trolling a bit is fun...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on February 26, 2017, 02:28:40 pm

Prussians are those military-obsessed people, basically modern-age Spartans, weren't they?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 02:33:57 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 26, 2017, 02:28:40 pm

Prussians are those military-obsessed people, basically modern-age Spartans, weren't they?

The Old Prussians (the Baltic people) or the Germans that just called themselves Prussians (and might have been descendents of the origional, some of them anyway)? No idea if they (the Germans that called themselves Prussians) were any more military obsessed than anybody else at the time, but they were certainly well known militarily and were considered the elite German troops of their day I believe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 26, 2017, 04:38:54 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 02:33:57 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 26, 2017, 02:28:40 pm

Prussians are those military-obsessed people, basically modern-age Spartans, weren't they?

The Old Prussians (the Baltic people) or the Germans that just called themselves Prussians (and might have been descendents of the origional, some of them anyway)? No idea if they (the Germans that called themselves Prussians) were any more military obsessed than anybody else at the time, but they were certainly well known militarily and were considered the elite German troops of their day I believe.

Well, Prussia (the modern era kingdom) was known for its militarism. Before that, the area of Old Prussia was largely conquered and occupied by the Teutonic Knight (and the Livonian Swordbrothers), which were a military order (And later gave birth to the Duchy of Prussia when the Grandmaster decided he wanted to be a duke instead).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 26, 2017, 06:44:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 02:33:57 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on February 26, 2017, 02:28:40 pm

Prussians are those military-obsessed people, basically modern-age Spartans, weren't they?

The Old Prussians (the Baltic people) or the Germans that just called themselves Prussians (and might have been descendents of the origional, some of them anyway)? No idea if they (the Germans that called themselves Prussians) were any more military obsessed than anybody else at the time, but they were certainly well known militarily and were considered the elite German troops of their day I believe.

There's not been a people like the Spartans since. Closest thing I can think of are Rhodesians, but Rhodesians weren't as hardcore as Spartans either. Prussians weren't as hardcore as Spartans either, but they were an exceptionally well-drilled and well-disciplined force and we all owe them a lot, because we've lifted a lot of our officer and school systems from them. They also had a habit of bullying France and Austria.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://imgur.com/9PO71jB.jpg)

So kinda cool but also kinda cunty, Prussia is Prussia

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 01:58:16 pm

And I'm suuuuuure you can show me that this genociding was still taking place at the start of the 20th century, no? Else by the same standard London is not an English city.

London is not an English city

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 10:26:55 am

It also depends on your usage of adjectives like 'German'. For example, it would hardly be a stretch to call a village within the country of Belgium populated by German-speaking people 'German'. Especially in an increasingly post-national Europe I think there is great value in paying attention to the nuances of these matters, as it increases our awareness of our shared, intertwined history.
'Historically German' would be the preferred phrasing here, I think. To say that Danzig has nothing to do with Germany at all certainly is wrong.

I think Europe is not as post-national as you might be thinking

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 08:51:19 pm

Soon, my friend. Soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 09:03:21 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 08:51:19 pm

Soon, my friend. Soon.

Even 'soon' might be a really long time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 27, 2017, 04:14:45 am

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 08:51:19 pm

Soon, my friend. Soon.

Speaking of German-speaking village, did I ever told you about Moresnet-Neutre? A tiny strip of land disputed between Prussia and the NEtherlands, then Prussia and Germany and Belgium that was as such part of neither from 1830 until 1914? Pretty cool history, I'll rant about it over a beer this week-end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2017, 08:12:19 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 26, 2017, 09:03:21 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on February 26, 2017, 08:51:19 pm

Soon, my friend. Soon.

Even 'soon' might be a really long time.

I suppose the nations of Europe collapsing would technically be post-national Europe
_{Hopefully not soon}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on February 28, 2017, 10:33:07 am

In other news, the head of the swedish "ambulance union" is asking that body armor and helmets be provided for paramedics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE) because they're often exposed to violence (up to and including fucking hand grenades) and that no-go zones are very much a reality for them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 28, 2017, 10:36:25 am

Quote from: TempAcc on February 28, 2017, 10:33:07 am

In other news, the head of the swedish "ambulance union" is asking that body armor and helmets be provided for paramedics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE) because they're often exposed to violence (up to and including fucking hand grenades) and that no-go zones are very much a reality for them.

O.o

To quote Trump, what the hell is going on over there?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 28, 2017, 11:06:45 am

Does anyone have an English source for that? I can't find anything whatsoever on DGS-tv or Patrik Engellau in English, which means I can't look it up in more detail which I hate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 28, 2017, 11:07:54 am

Yeah, can our Swedish forumist confirm?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 28, 2017, 11:49:07 am

DGS is apparently 'Det Goda Samhället', or The Good Society.

Spoiler: Here is their homepage, brutally mangled by the opressive regime at Googletranslate HQ (click to show/hide)

The good society is an advocacy site that consists of different voices that investigates, exposes and drills in the burning social issues. This creates contemporary self-understanding.

How are you in Sweden?

Many people ask themselves that question and perceive an increasingly polarized debate - political as well as opinion-forming. People experiencing an unsatisfactory media landscape, as more and more come to be characterized by valuation journalism than journalism as broad and non-evaluative answers the questions where, when, how, who - and why - and perform an in-depth analysis.

It has also emerged a shame and guilt culture in Sweden, but also in other parts of the Western world. People should be ashamed if they do not live up to being the most irreproachable good and ashamed of the West's history and societies.

The guilt and shame culture is not conducive to a healthy public discourse or to build trust and stability in society and between people.

The good society believes in the reality of the people and that critical social issues must be discussed and not filtered through the predetermined grid.

The writers on the site, the good society have different political affiliation but united by:

One of mankind: That people are decent and has an internal moral compass.

A view of society: An affirmation of libertarian values.

One method: Critique.

A philosophy: the belief that there is truth.

The good society would scratch the society "truths" and keeps nothing sacred.

DGS-TV is a 10-part series of programs "where Patrik Engellau along with several of the country's brightest opinion leaders to discuss our most important issues."

Spoiler: Engellau's brutally-mangled swedish wikipedia page (click to show/hide)

927/5000
Johan Patrik Engellau, born January 29, 1945, is a Swedish writer, chairman of think tank The New Welfare Foundation and CEO of AktieTorget. He has worked for the UN, SIDA and the Foreign Ministry, including as head of SIDA's support office in Guinea-Bissau. [1] After a period as a researcher at the Institute for Future Studies, he started a number of companies and has written a number of books on economics, entrepreneurship, society and politics, but also about the history and literature. Engellau has for many years been actively involved in the political debate, including the blogger. Since 2015 he is responsible for the website debate the good society, whose motto reads "It creates contemporary self-understanding."

Patrik Engellau has written thirty books, most published self-published, among others, by the mill (1980), In Search of Mother Svea's soul (1987), Carta Nova (1993), the pillar of cloud (1994) and God's third strategy (2008) .

Homepage of the interviewee's organisation. (http://www.ambulansfacket.se/ambulansf%C3%B6rbundet/om-oss-34073593) (Gordon Grattidge is the chairman)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 28, 2017, 12:48:38 pm

Oh, pissflaps, I was about to start arranging my dinner. It will be a while before I can give anything particularly in-depth. For now, I can reveal that I have not heard of it until now, no. I have heard of the threats and the odd attack on the emergency service crews, however. I am not particularly surprised. It sounds like a very reasonable request. Indeed, I thought they already had at least some helmets and riot-shields available.

The translation in the video provided checks out very well, so it is a good source. I do not know much of DGS TV as a whole, but it appears perfectly harmless; an opinion blog and Youtube series that goes somewhat outside the fold, but does so quite well. It is not particularly political, other than in its scepticism to some established orthodoxies that they believe need probing.

I can confirm Dorsidwarf's translations above. That is effectively what they are trying to do; be a journalistic counter-force to value-journalism and current identity politics. It is harmless; it is certainly no Breitbart-esque, as it where.
It is rather interesting. I shall pick it through and see what more I can find. It is a very small site, with a small footprint, hence the lack of general dirt, I imagine. It is more of an archive of opinion pieces that up until recently would not be particularly well-seen in most papers.

Quote from: Ispil on February 28, 2017, 11:02:13 am

This is why when you accept a bunch of immigrants/refugees, cordoning them off into their own little communities is the worst way to handle integration.

That has, more or less, happened by itself. The immigration and integration is in the hopeless state it is because of in-action, I would say. It has been a very hands-off affair; it has been far less interesting than recieving and cashing the prestige and the feelings of generousity of having a 'humane migration policy'. It has all been dreadfully irresponsible. I urge you, do not try this at home.

This has been Meatball News^TM, we will return shortly with more coverage on this story later. [Jingle, fade-out]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 28, 2017, 12:59:42 pm

It is also a more or less accurate translation in the video, besides a one or two subtitling reductions I didn't like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on February 28, 2017, 04:30:17 pm

Oh! And while I remember, I thought it might be an opportune time for some perspective. Namely, it is now 31 years since prime minister Olof Palme was assassinated. While recent years have been worrying, embarassing and enlightening, I must say that the great, Trump-brand peril being quite efficiently marketed is somewhat over-stated, all together. It is not unwarranted questions, nor is it an unwarranted attention, but one would think that the whole of the North was in danger of falling apart at any given moment. Well, at least such it is when-ever it is Trump that has set the current tone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 01, 2017, 06:31:51 am

Baby step, but we're getting something that is looking like the embryo of a EU military HQ. (http://www.politico.eu/article/eus-small-steps-toward-whisper-it-a-military-hq-defense-cooperation/?utm_content=buffercf8f5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer) The 30-strong " Military Planning and Conduct Capabilities" will apparently be in charge of commanding EU training missions in places like the Central African Republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 01, 2017, 06:38:43 am

What's even the point of a military when the only capable country just up and left? All they'll be able to train them at doing is surrendering and/or how to get other people to do your fighting for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 01, 2017, 07:32:32 am

Well, I wouldn't call Le Pen "doing well", she's still forecast to loose the second round by a lot. And I don't think Wilders would actually take the Netherlands out of the EU. It's one thing for the UK to do it, but the Netherlands, not being an island is much more integrated. It simply doesn't make sense.

I'm also unfamiliar with that Phantom Zone. I assume it's that place great ideas goes?

In other news: French candidate Fillion refuse to suspend his presidential campaign. He earlier had vowed to do so if he was indicted in the Penelopegate thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on March 01, 2017, 07:55:47 am

That reminds me of a story that was on ABC TV (Australia's) MediaWatch show, this was a 90s thing. A local Murdoch-owned paper had run a story by an "independent research group" which proved that smoking doesn't cause cancer.

Well, how independent were they? It turned out that the main funders of the independent group were Rupert Murdoch and Phillip Morris corporation, and all the "researchers" who worked there were spouses of local conservative politicians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 01, 2017, 09:34:18 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 01, 2017, 07:32:32 am

I'm also unfamiliar with that Phantom Zone. I assume it's that place great ideas goes?

Zod did nothing wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 02, 2017, 07:53:39 am

In more sverige news, US journalist Tim Pool posted on his twitter about getting escorted out of Rinkeby (https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/837103801861619714) after several men put on masks and started following his crew. Pool claims that a local police officer mentioned it was better if they left, and that groups were gathering and getting agitated after seeing his filming equipment (they were carrying sizeable filming equipment). He says he was escorted out of the district by police. While swedish police did say people got agitated when Pool started filming, with several young men pulling up their hoods and shouting at them, they have disputed Pool's claim of him being escorted out by police. (http://www.thelocal.se/20170301/police-told-me-to-leave-rinkeby-us-journalist-tim-pool)

While Pool's claim is disputable, Rinkeby is a suburban area of Stockolm thats recently became a focus for riots (http://www.thelocal.se/20170222/a-question-of-education-what-rinkeby-residents-think-about-the-riots), car burning and such things, seemingly over political comments in regards to Sweden's immigration policies. Some Rinkeby locals claim that the riots are the work of the same group of 30~40 people, and not the suburb's population in general, and while police is usualy quick to respond when called, it is unusually sluggish in its response when riots are taking place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 08:11:44 am

Sweden reintroduce conscription to help fills its army's rank. Conscription was abolished in 2010, but as Sweden struggle to recruit enough men and women and as Russia acts up they are bringing it back. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-military-idUSKBN1690ND)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 02, 2017, 09:02:45 am

Are men allowed in the army yet in Sweden, or is it still a bastion of women only?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2017, 10:21:58 am

Quote

Sofia Hultgren, who turns 17 later this year and thus could be drafted in coming years, said many young Swedes viewed lengthy careers as military professionals as something odd and old-fashioned.
"I think many see it as something lame, something your father did, when there are so much other fun things to do," Hultgren, a student, told Reuters.
Still, she welcomed the reintroduction of military service and said she would consider such training even if she did not want to make it a career.
"I think this can give a feeling of comfort. Conscription strengthens our defense when we see so much ugliness in the world," she said.

Ahahahaha 10/10 Sweden never fails to impress

EU trying to deck Marine Le Pen for publishing IS execution pics (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-lepen-eu-idUSKBN1691A0)
Yeah how could this backfire, EU knows exactly what they're doing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 02, 2017, 12:07:09 pm

...And not a bloody buggery day too soon! It was awfully silly to get rid of it in the first place.

Now. There is an explanation for it. If you remember the nineties, it is likely that you recall a strange zeitgeist of disarmament running through it, after the fall of the Soviet union. This ended up running away absolutely uncontrollably in parliament, along with migration. Since there was no enemy at the time, they reasoned, why keep an expensive standing army? It was re-orientated from a national defence force into a professional army trained for foreign service, such as in Afghanistan. Conscription, which since the early nineties was effectively voluntary, was abolished as part of it. Of course, now the dastardly Russians have ruined their plans by asserting themselves again, and they need to reverse twenty odd years of cutbacks, scrapping and reduction.

It is baby steps in the right direction, at least. There has been a few of those, recently. One can only hope. It is difficult to see how it will all turn out, but it is an admission, of a sort. It, along with the restricted migration policy, rather feels like an admission that the world that they envisaged failed to turn up, and that it is time to return to the one we are currently in.

_{Related to that, why, I am sure that all glorious, superior British teenagers are all thrilled and excited about a military career, and have no other prospects in mind but an officer's life, for the good of the realm, as opposed to the decadent degenerates of other lands... All a chav truly want is a uniform and a officer's commission, I am sure.}

Quote from: TempAcc on March 02, 2017, 07:53:39 am

In more sverige news, US journalist Tim Pool posted on his twitter about getting escorted out of Rinkeby (https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/837103801861619714) after several men put on masks and started following his crew. Pool claims that a local police officer mentioned it was better if they left, and that groups were gathering and getting agitated after seeing his filming equipment (they were carrying sizeable filming equipment). He says he was escorted out of the district by police. While swedish police did say people got agitated when Pool started filming, with several young men pulling up their hoods and shouting at them, they have disputed Pool's claim of him being escorted out by police. (http://www.thelocal.se/20170301/police-told-me-to-leave-rinkeby-us-journalist-tim-pool)

While Pool's claim is disputable, Rinkeby is a suburban area of Stockolm thats recently became a focus for riots (http://www.thelocal.se/20170222/a-question-of-education-what-rinkeby-residents-think-about-the-riots), car burning and such things, seemingly over political comments in regards to Sweden's immigration policies. Some Rinkeby locals claim that the riots are the work of the same group of 30~40 people, and not the suburb's population in general, and while police is usualy quick to respond when called, it is unusually sluggish in its response when riots are taking place.

I am unsure. American sources are what they are, currently, and I am quite certain that he might have spiced the incident up somewhat for some extra meme-appeal. The street thugs tend to dislike open film crews, it seems, so it is likely that it did happen, but I doubt that it was to the degree that the police had to personally escort them out and then lie and claim that they did not.

Further, the recent Rinkeby-disorder was caused by an arrest, rather than as a political re-action. It is the usual flash-point for disorders in these areas, one of those people is put under arrest, and his friends effectively throw a tantrum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 12:15:43 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2017, 10:21:58 am

Quote

Sofia Hultgren, who turns 17 later this year and thus could be drafted in coming years, said many young Swedes viewed lengthy careers as military professionals as something odd and old-fashioned.
"I think many see it as something lame, something your father did, when there are so much other fun things to do," Hultgren, a student, told Reuters.
Still, she welcomed the reintroduction of military service and said she would consider such training even if she did not want to make it a career.
"I think this can give a feeling of comfort. Conscription strengthens our defense when we see so much ugliness in the world," she said.

Ahahahaha 10/10 Sweden never fails to impress

?

Quote

EU trying to deck Marine Le Pen for publishing IS execution pics (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-lepen-eu-idUSKBN1691A0)
Yeah how could this backfire, EU knows exactly what they're doing

[/quote]

Well, it's the French judiciary, not the EU per se. The parliament just lifted her immunity, letting the French justice system go on with the charges, which is apparently standard procedure for the EP. I wish they'd press the embezzlement charges, this "publishing violent images" law is dumb as fuck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 02, 2017, 01:16:16 pm

So are they just blatantly making an excuse to jail their most serious ideological opponent, or is there more to this? The fact that the incident in question happened more than a year ago doesn't make me think so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 01:17:42 pm

Well, my bet is that the prosecutor will then drop the charge, like the previous time. Worst case, it'll just be a fine and nothing will change anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 02, 2017, 01:38:16 pm

Hm. It's still an obvious hit job though, and from what I've seen it hasn't gone over very well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 01:40:18 pm

Quote from: Baffler on March 02, 2017, 01:38:16 pm

Hm. It's still an obvious hit job though, and from what I've seen it hasn't gone over very well.

Yeah, it's annoying, because it distract from the real judicial scandal over parliamentary expense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 02, 2017, 06:54:27 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/4Qp6WWX.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2017, 07:45:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 12:15:43 pm

?

This is a sign of desperate times for a country acting contrary to its principles

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 12:15:43 pm

Well, it's the French judiciary, not the EU per se. The parliament just lifted her immunity, letting the French justice system go on with the charges, which is apparently standard procedure for the EP. I wish they'd press the embezzlement charges, this "publishing violent images" law is dumb as fuck.

Quote

European Union lawmakers lifted the EU parliamentary immunity of French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen on Thursday for tweeting pictures of Islamic State violence.

y

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 02, 2017, 06:54:27 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/4Qp6WWX.jpg)

Considering how old this image is we may take gratitude in that the decline has been graciously paced. RIP Greece tho

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2017, 09:08:00 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 02, 2017, 12:15:43 pm

Well, it's the French judiciary, not the EU per se. The parliament just lifted her immunity, letting the French justice system go on with the charges, which is apparently standard procedure for the EP. I wish they'd press the embezzlement charges, this "publishing violent images" law is dumb as fuck.

When I saw that earlier, I thought it could be something that violated free speech, mainly because it's so vague. Also, I wonder if pictures from a boxing match or a MMA match or a violent car crash also count because it's the definition of 'violence' being used here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 02, 2017, 09:35:16 pm

You know somebody's effed up bigly time if I'm agreeing with Covenant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 02, 2017, 09:56:54 pm

I don't feel it's a bad thing I agree with you, just that it's notable 'cause it rarely ever happens :p

But yeah, not a fan of Le Pen, not looking forward to her using the massive ammo cache this move has likely given her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 02, 2017, 10:55:04 pm

The French politicians seem to have switched to full dirty tactics mode after that meeted with DSBG or whatever was the name of their intelligence service that has announced that the Russians are coming interfering with French elections. The whole situation in France is a bit, eh. What's the word when the current leader of the country has like 2% popular support? Unstable? Yeah, it's quite unstable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2017, 12:11:22 am

Sounds a bit like the French might end up doing Russias job for them without Russia even trying to do anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 03:41:17 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 02, 2017, 09:53:45 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 02, 2017, 09:35:16 pm

You know somebody's effed up bigly time if I'm agreeing with Covenant.

If it makes you feel better, we probably only agree that it is a poor move on their part. I'd imagine you believe helping Le Pen's chances is a bad thing, whereas I heartily hope she wins.

I'm not even sure it's a hit job, targeted at the police or at anyone. I think it's just the justice system following its slow, slow trundle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2017, 06:44:48 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 03:41:17 am

I'm not even sure it's a hit job, targeted at the police or at anyone. I think it's just the justice system following its slow, slow trundle.

I don't think it's basic incompetence given the timing and the target in question, seems like politically motivated incompetence

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 07:02:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2017, 06:44:48 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 03:41:17 am

I'm not even sure it's a hit job, targeted at the police or at anyone. I think it's just the justice system following its slow, slow trundle.

I don't think it's basic incompetence given the timing and the target in question, seems like politically motivated incompetence

Is it? The "offence" date from December 2015. The request for removing immunity was sent ten months lates in October of last year. It just seems like bureaucracy moving slowly to me.

Edit: The Parliamentary Committee statement got a timeline (Section "Facts"). Looking at it it seems that they started invesitgating the thing straightaway back last year, but Le Pen stalled for time by refusing to be interrogated by police, claiming she'd only answer to a judge, then refusing to appear in court claiming her immunity protected her and so on and so on.

Edit2: Apparently the two deputy campaign manager of Fillion resigned over his decision not to suspend his campaign.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 03, 2017, 08:02:16 am

I've heard that Fillion is getting pressured by his party to resign and be replaced with Juppe.

Man, French election are so cool and dynamic. Maybe in 50 years, our elections will look the same! We do use the same two-tour system, apparently. Just need to get rid of Stalin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 03, 2017, 08:07:07 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 03, 2017, 08:02:16 am

I've heard that Fillion is getting pressured by his party to resign and be replaced with Juppe.

Man, French election are so cool and dynamic. Maybe in 50 years, our elections will look the same! We do use the same two-tour system, apparently. Just need to get rid of Stalin.

Unfortunately for you, Ladimir Putin is no mortal man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 08:44:18 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 03, 2017, 08:02:16 am

I've heard that Fillion is getting pressured by his party to resign and be replaced with Juppe.

Man, French election are so cool and dynamic. Maybe in 50 years, our elections will look the same! We do use the same two-tour system, apparently. Just need to get rid of Stalin.

Well, it's the most exciting election in a loooooooooong time.

Edit: Apparently the resignation of the deputy campaign managers is part of a vast pwoers truggle within the LR party, where supporters of Juppé (which, hilariously was condemned to 14 months of suspecnded jail time for fake jobs ten years ago) are trying to get the party to switch candidate. The deadline for candidates is in two weeks.

There also was that quote which I found a bit scary from an unnamed former minister "Juppé has to announce he is running soon, or in two weeks our staff goes to Macron and our voters to Le Pen."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2017, 11:04:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 07:02:05 am

Is it?

Yes

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 07:02:05 am

The "offence" date from December 2015. The request for removing immunity was sent ten months lates in October of last year. It just seems like bureaucracy moving slowly to me.
Edit: The Parliamentary Committee statement got a timeline (Section "Facts"). Looking at it it seems that they started invesitgating the thing straightaway back last year, but Le Pen stalled for time by refusing to be interrogated by police, claiming she'd only answer to a judge, then refusing to appear in court claiming her immunity protected her and so on and so on.
Edit2: Apparently the two deputy campaign manager of Fillion resigned over his decision not to suspend his campaign.

Quote

The offence being considered is "publishing violent images", which under certain circumstances can carry a penalty of three years in prison and a fine of 75,000 euros ($78,930).
She has denounced the legal proceedings against her as political interference in the campaign and called for a moratorium on judicial investigations until the election period has passed.
Le Pen has already seen her earnings as MEP cut for a different case involving alleged misuse of EU funds.
Polls say Le Pen will win the first of the two election rounds but lose in the runoff. They also show that her legal battles seem to have little effect on her supporters.
The vote on Thursday by a large show of hands in the plenary of the EU Parliament confirmed a preliminary decision taken on Tuesday by the legal affairs committee of the EU legislature.
In the report underpinning parliament's decision, eurosceptic 5 Star Movement lawmaker Laura Ferrara said that although the images posted by Le Pen were easily accessible on several websites, "this does not alter the fact that their violent nature is likely to undermine human dignity".
Le Pen's move was seen as not appropriate for a member of the European Parliament, the report said.

You seem to be mistaken thinking I am concerned that the EU moves at a slow pace when punishing political dissidents for publishing IS executions in a devastating assault on freedom of expression. I am not concerned with their slow pace; I am concerned that they find this not only acceptable, but the majority enact it on principle as if this is to be an expected normal. But nah, it's her fault for refusing to be interrogated by police for doing nothing wrong. Good Lord how Europe has slid into authoritarianism while championing liberality is beyond me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 03, 2017, 11:06:55 pm

Women are ‘smaller, weaker, less intelligent’ and should be paid less, says right-wing Polish MEP (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-smaller-weaker-less-intelligent-paid-less-janusz-korwin-mikke-polish-mep-right-wing-silesia-a7609031.html).

Here's video of the incident. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNs_nn_qBIQ) It seems that there weren't many people present in European Parliament at the time, which is why I guess this person got to the tribune. Still, crazy stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 03, 2017, 11:16:53 pm

Oh, this is hilarious. So that MEP from the speech, Janusz Korwin-Mikke, he's the leader of his own party KORWiN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_for_the_Renewal_of_the_Republic%E2%80%93Liberty_and_Hope). Yes, it's a backronym of his own name. But not only that! Because this party is split from the Congress of the New Right, a party that Korwin was ousted from for being too right wing. And he's the founder of the Congress of the New Right.

You can't make this shit up! Somebody needs to go ahead and revive the Polish Beer-Lovers Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Beer-Lovers%27_Party), their all time record for greatest political satire is in danger.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 04, 2017, 08:35:48 am

Classic Polan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 05, 2017, 04:19:45 am

Eh, at this point Korwin is a joke and should be treated as such. There was a time when he actually tried, I suppose, and while even then his views of gender equality weren't great, he wasn't so bad. He finally became a meme, due to, being, well, memetic, with the moustache and right-wing approach to life, with dozens of funny songs about him and stuff, but ultimately as far as MEP goes - he literally said he's going there to just get cash and try to explode EU or at least get Poland kicked out of it (since he's also anti-EU). He's keeping his promise, but yeah...
Oh, and he also tried to become president not so long ago. In a nutshell, he's kind of a Polish Trump, except without things that made Trump succesful, although suprisingly his policies weren't that bad and suprisingly mild, but he still didin't won and since then he went full-on troll mode.
Or it might be just his old age getting to him, he's 72.

As far as politics go, Poland is really depresingly funny at times.
All Hail Kjng Korwin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Efr6Q0QIYI)!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 05, 2017, 01:33:16 pm

korwin doesnt do much these days, just shitpost

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 05, 2017, 06:43:21 pm

I appreciate Korwin for walking into the EU parliament and making everyone angry 100% of the time. Polish salt mines are evidently still a world leading industry

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2017, 11:04:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 07:02:05 am

Is it?

Yes

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2017, 07:02:05 am

The "offence" date from December 2015. The request for removing immunity was sent ten months lates in October of last year. It just seems like bureaucracy moving slowly to me.
Edit: The Parliamentary Committee statement got a timeline (Section "Facts"). Looking at it it seems that they started invesitgating the thing straightaway back last year, but Le Pen stalled for time by refusing to be interrogated by police, claiming she'd only answer to a judge, then refusing to appear in court claiming her immunity protected her and so on and so on.
Edit2: Apparently the two deputy campaign manager of Fillion resigned over his decision not to suspend his campaign.

Quote

The offence being considered is "publishing violent images", which under certain circumstances can carry a penalty of three years in prison and a fine of 75,000 euros ($78,930).
She has denounced the legal proceedings against her as political interference in the campaign and called for a moratorium on judicial investigations until the election period has passed.
Le Pen has already seen her earnings as MEP cut for a different case involving alleged misuse of EU funds.
Polls say Le Pen will win the first of the two election rounds but lose in the runoff. They also show that her legal battles seem to have little effect on her supporters.
The vote on Thursday by a large show of hands in the plenary of the EU Parliament confirmed a preliminary decision taken on Tuesday by the legal affairs committee of the EU legislature.
In the report underpinning parliament's decision, eurosceptic 5 Star Movement lawmaker Laura Ferrara said that although the images posted by Le Pen were easily accessible on several websites, "this does not alter the fact that their violent nature is likely to undermine human dignity".
Le Pen's move was seen as not appropriate for a member of the European Parliament, the report said.

You seem to be mistaken thinking I am concerned that the EU moves at a slow pace when punishing political dissidents for publishing IS executions in a devastating assault on freedom of expression. I am not concerned with their slow pace; I am concerned that they find this not only acceptable, but the majority enact it on principle as if this is to be an expected normal. But nah, it's her fault for refusing to be interrogated by police for doing nothing wrong. Good Lord how Europe has slid into authoritarianism while championing liberality is beyond me.

The EU did not punish anyone! For fuck's sake, it's a French law and French judge. Since it's apparently standard procedure for the EP to lift immunity for most crimes unless related to the MEP's job why would they make an exception. Yes, it's a stupid law. But it is not EU law. It's French law. That's what national sovereignty look like, you should be enjoying this.

Also, you made specific claims related to the timing of the decision:

Quote

I don't think it's basic incompetence given the timing and the target in question, seems like politically motivated incompetence

Then you're basically insulting my intelligence by ignoring the data I provided stating that the French justice system didn't try to act to get this happening right before the election, instead posting a quote from that article which has no bearing on it as if I was unable to follow your goddamn link.

So I'm just going to repeat my point once more: The case against Le Pen is a french case under french law. That law is retarded. It's not normal that France prosecute this shit. But it's normal that the EP lets the justice system do its job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2017, 11:43:28 am

Sorry to distract from the current rant/discussion, but....

How the hell does a rhino in an EUROPEAN (French to be specific) zoo of all places get poached?? (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39194844)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 07, 2017, 11:48:40 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2017, 11:43:28 am

Sorry to distract from the current rant/discussion, but....

How the hell does a rhino in an EUROPEAN (French to be specific) zoo of all places get poached?? (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39194844)

Zoos don't actually have all that great security, not something they generally need. Plenty of incidents of drunk/stupid people climbing into animal cages, especially at night, to demonstrate that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2017, 12:09:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2017, 11:43:28 am

Sorry to distract from the current rant/discussion, but....

How the hell does a rhino in an EUROPEAN (French to be specific) zoo of all places get poached?? (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39194844)

Damn, that's just horrible. I guess we need the WWF to send armed zoo guards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 07, 2017, 02:52:26 pm

More likely, inside job. Friends (or "friends") of somebody who works there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 07, 2017, 03:33:28 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 07, 2017, 02:52:26 pm

More likely, inside job. Friends (or "friends") of somebody who works there.

It's not that hard to break into a zoo, they cover quite an area so there is almost certainly a way over the fence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2017, 06:30:51 pm

Hungarian government has decided, supported by a vast parliamentary majority vote, that it will start the construction of container detention camps at the Serbian border. All refugees, including children will be locked up in containers there, for the duration of their asylum procedure.
Hungarian president Viktor Orbán says it is nescessary to do so, "to protect Europe". According to Orbán, immigration is "terrorism's Trojan horse, threatening his country, and Christian values across all of Europe".

Amnesty International has called it a "flagrant breach of international law", and has urged the EU to hold it's member state accountable for the 'illegal and inhumane actions'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2017, 06:59:31 pm

Saying 'locked up in containers' makes it sound a LOT like a concentration camp..... or maybe a jail.

It may just be the wording that makes it sound bad, but without more details on conditions and stuff, pretty hard to tell where on the line it is between a refugee camp, a jail, and a concentration camp.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 07, 2017, 07:03:20 pm

/s don't worry i heard they have lots of beds and shower facilities! even free clothes and an incinerator for the garbage! /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2017, 11:16:00 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2017, 06:59:31 pm

Saying 'locked up in containers' makes it sound a LOT like a concentration camp..... or maybe a jail.

It may just be the wording that makes it sound bad, but without more details on conditions and stuff, pretty hard to tell where on the line it is between a refugee camp, a jail, and a concentration camp.

It's quite easy a container camp is a camp that uses ship containers as housing units. So yah, basically, they're going to be locked up in ship containers. And yeah, for all intents and purposes it's a jail.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 08, 2017, 12:03:34 am

I suspect that at least part of the motivation for using shipping containers is that they are really,  really cheap. I've heard that the big ports up in New York and Baltimore will give once-used shipping containers away for free, as long as you prove that you can haul them out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on March 08, 2017, 01:07:09 am

Yep. Apparently, using shipping containers as a framework for a home - a permanent home, not just a refugee camp - has actually become something of a fad in recent years.  They're not only cheap, but sturdy as well.  I mean, my opinion of Orbán is that he fancies himself the second coming of (a less competent) Mussolini, but I'd need to see how they're actually putting these refugee camps together before I start blasting them for "locking up children inside metal boxes," so to speak.  They used shipping containers at Calais, and apparently Berlin made facilities out of shipping containers as well if this (http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/europe/gallery/berlin-refugee-housing-expansion/index.html) is accurate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 07:41:09 am

UK faces €2 billion EU tab for China fraud (http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-faces-e2-billion-eu-payment-for-china-fraud-trade/)

Quote

Britain faces a potential €2 billion bill from Brussels after EU investigators found that U.K. authorities turned a blind eye to a massive fraud network that allowed ultra-cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

The EU’s anti-fraud office OLAF, uncovering allegedly one of the biggest fraud rings in its history, concluded that British customs played a central role by repeatedly ignoring warnings to take action over Chinese textiles and footwear pouring into the EU at a tiny fraction of their cost of production.

OLAF calculated that U.K. customs’ “continuous negligence” deprived the EU of €1.987 billion in revenues in lost duties on Chinese merchandise. The highly sophisticated organized crime network also stripped €3.2 billion from the value-added-tax income of major EU countries such as France, Germany, Spain and Italy, the investigators said. 

In an attempt to recoup some of the funds, OLAF has sent a recommendation to the European Commission’s Directorate-General for Budget that the U.K. government should be forced to pay the €2 billion directly into the EU budget. Any recovery of the funds will depend on talks and legislative procedures between the U.K. and the Commission.

The anti-fraud investigators confirmed the details of the probe to POLITICO and said: “These losses to the EU budget are still ongoing since this fraud has not been stopped to date.”

More reasons why UK should've never been admitted to EU in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 08, 2017, 08:48:01 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 07:41:09 am

UK faces €2 billion EU tab for China fraud (http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-faces-e2-billion-eu-payment-for-china-fraud-trade/)

Quote

Britain faces a potential €2 billion bill from Brussels after EU investigators found that U.K. authorities turned a blind eye to a massive fraud network that allowed ultra-cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

The EU’s anti-fraud office OLAF, uncovering allegedly one of the biggest fraud rings in its history, concluded that British customs played a central role by repeatedly ignoring warnings to take action over Chinese textiles and footwear pouring into the EU at a tiny fraction of their cost of production.

OLAF calculated that U.K. customs’ “continuous negligence” deprived the EU of €1.987 billion in revenues in lost duties on Chinese merchandise. The highly sophisticated organized crime network also stripped €3.2 billion from the value-added-tax income of major EU countries such as France, Germany, Spain and Italy, the investigators said. 

In an attempt to recoup some of the funds, OLAF has sent a recommendation to the European Commission’s Directorate-General for Budget that the U.K. government should be forced to pay the €2 billion directly into the EU budget. Any recovery of the funds will depend on talks and legislative procedures between the U.K. and the Commission.

The anti-fraud investigators confirmed the details of the probe to POLITICO and said: “These losses to the EU budget are still ongoing since this fraud has not been stopped to date.”

More reasons why UK should've never been admitted to EU in the first place.

That is some SERIOUS fraud. Quite perplexing that they get away with just saying there goods are worth a tenth of their actual value.

"yeah I'm importing laptops, they are worth 10 bucks each"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 09:32:16 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 08, 2017, 08:48:01 am

That is some SERIOUS fraud. Quite perplexing that they get away with just saying there goods are worth a tenth of their actual value.

"yeah I'm importing laptops, they are worth 10 bucks each"

The EU was giving UK waaaaay too leeway in a naive and misguided attempt to placate the British "lords" and make them stay in EU. That's the only explanation I can see here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 08, 2017, 11:33:57 am

No, the EU was giving the UK lots of leeway because it exists to cater to certain countries' interests and while the UK was part of it it was one of those countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 01:06:08 pm

For now, that is. It should start having those, because this shit will continue to slip through otherwise.

The Union must federalize together, or else its members will surely perish separately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2017, 03:29:02 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 01:06:08 pm

For now, that is. It should start having those, because this shit will continue to slip through otherwise.

The Union must federalize together, or else its members will surely perish separately.

That would likely mean losing a great deal of sovereignity, which is the sticking point.

The original colonies never really had full sovereingity because they were still colonies, so the extent of the loss of sovereignity wasn't as big. Of course though, they were fighting a common enemy and would have benefited more from sticking together rather than being separate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 01:06:08 pm

For now, that is. It should start having those, because this shit will continue to slip through otherwise.

The Union must federalize together, or else its members will surely perish separately.

Said the female anglerfish to her mate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 08, 2017, 06:03:31 pm

Tbf if the male anglerfish doesn't then there won't be any more anglerfish in a generation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2017, 06:50:47 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

The EU did not punish anyone! For fuck's sake, it's a French law and French judge.

Oh yeah the EU is just facilitating the punishment of Marine. Cool beans

Quote from: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

Since it's apparently standard procedure for the EP to lift immunity for most crimes unless related to the MEP's job why would they make an exception.

The European Parliament voting to help prosecute Marine for not committing a crime. For publishing already published atrocities committed by ISIS. Are you having a laff saying this is normal? Is this the fucked up world Europeans have made for themselves?

Quote from: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

Yes, it's a stupid law. But it is not EU law. It's French law. That's what national sovereignty look like, you should be enjoying this.

Oh wait, this is the fucked up world yuros have made. I should be enjoying politicians being punished for publishing war crimes that are already in circulation. To have the cheek to say I would enjoy that simply because the same establishment is using both mechanisms to punish thought crimes is truly something progressive

Quote from: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

Then you're basically insulting my intelligence by ignoring the data I provided stating that the French justice system didn't try to act to get this happening right before the election, instead posting a quote from that article which has no bearing on it as if I was unable to follow your goddamn link.

If I was to insult your intelligence I'd call you a moron, like hell would I be 5th dimensionally subtle. I actually think you seem smart! What I was doing was stressing my point, which you missed - you seemed as if I was concerned with the timing and not what was in fact being done. Hence why I quoted the relevant section in which the European Parliament lifted Marine's immunity for the purpose of prosecuting her because the Parliament and judged her as acting unfit as a member of the MEP.

Quote from: Sheb on March 07, 2017, 11:24:57 am

So I'm just going to repeat my point once more: The case against Le Pen is a french case under french law. That law is retarded. It's not normal that France prosecute this shit. But it's normal that the EP lets the justice system do its job.

You say it's normal because you want it to be normal. I'm not sorry that this will never be considered normal, and it got the backlash it deserved. The role the EU and its Quislings have played in aborting rule of law has gladly gotten the attention it deserves - it's so easy in today's day and age to show the hypocrisy in which the EU claims to defend rights except for everyone who disagrees with their corrupt ways lmao

Like the average Frenchman is supposed to enjoy the EU protecting its own MEPs under freedom of expression and then fucking up its opponents for publishing war crimes. What a joke - and heavens forbid the EU be allowed to make it normal to act so arbitrarily

Quote from: Sergarr on March 08, 2017, 07:41:09 am

UK faces €2 billion EU tab for China fraud (http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-faces-e2-billion-eu-payment-for-china-fraud-trade/)
More reasons why UK should've never been admitted to EU in the first place.

You know I agree, though I'd like to add

Quote

But a spokesman for HMRC said: "This is not a bill, it is Olaf's estimate of evaded duty, and not one that is recognised by our experts who will be challenging Olaf on their calculations.

I find the allegations well-timed and await HMRC's own investigation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39206513)
Let's just say the EU has a €2B incentive

Quote from: Criptfeind on March 08, 2017, 06:03:31 pm

Tbf if the male anglerfish doesn't then there won't be any more anglerfish in a generation.

>implying yuros won't disappear in a generation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2017, 06:54:39 pm

Sorry to poke American politics in here, but I'm wondering, how do other countries deal with avoiding the 'death spiral' for healthcare.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14849512/death-spirals-experts-republican-health-care-bill
http://www.vox.com/2017/3/7/14841682/republican-replacement-individual-mandate-cartoon

The main sticking point in the healthcare reform seems to be 'how do we avoid the death spiral and collapse of the HC industry?', so, here I am wondering how other countries deal with it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2017, 07:03:17 pm

Most countries pretend it doesn't exist and are waiting for the issue to be passed on to future leaders to deal with. So I imagine when the time comes, since the death spiral will hit governments instead of private insurers, they'll just begin cutting public coverage and services for certain demographics. Probably gonna start with smokers, alcoholics, obese and so on; either that, or just borrow loadsa money and push the debt off for future generations to deal with

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 08, 2017, 08:46:06 pm

I'm really not sure why you have a ferret up your bum about Le Pen. The actual local french prosecution seems pretty horseshit, but the eu response seems all very standard procedure for investigations.

Quote

    After a competent authority of a Member State asks the EP President to waive the immunity of the MEP, this request is announced in plenary. MEPs have right to defend their immunities.
    The EP Committee of Legal affairs recommends the adoption or rejection of the request for the waiver of immunity or for the defence of immunity and privileges. The committee may ask the requesting authority clarify or to explain its demand.
    The committee presents the report where it may decide whether the requesting MS authority is competent and the request acceptable. The committee must not judge the MEP concerned, neither the opinions nor acts attributed to him or her that have been used by the authority to justify the request.
    The members discuss the reasons for and against each proposal on the next plenary session. After the debate, an individual vote is taken.
    The President immediately communicates Parliament's decision to the Member concerned and to the competent authority of the Member State concerned.

Its literally "Does the committee think the request is reasonable" and if it seems like the government isnt doing it to be contrary or whatever they tell them okay.



The smear/politics going on here is the bloody french, not the bloody germans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 08, 2017, 09:28:00 pm

Me thinks you kinda just answered your own question.

French prosecution: "hey guys we want this bullshit accusation to go through so we can smear this one presidential candidate we don't like because we're corrupt frogs"

EU: "sounds good to me ok"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

So we all agree the EU should be given more power to overrule national law when it contradicts core freedom? I mean, I'd love that. (I'm trying to see if that particular French law was ever challenged in front of the ECJ, but can't find stuff. My guess is that there never was much of a conviction. Keep in mind that Le Pen hasn't even been charged formally, the request to waive immunity was needed because she wouldn't go to a preliminary hearing).

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2017, 06:54:39 pm

Sorry to poke American politics in here, but I'm wondering, how do other countries deal with avoiding the 'death spiral' for healthcare.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14849512/death-spirals-experts-republican-health-care-bill
http://www.vox.com/2017/3/7/14841682/republican-replacement-individual-mandate-cartoon

The main sticking point in the healthcare reform seems to be 'how do we avoid the death spiral and collapse of the HC industry?', so, here I am wondering how other countries deal with it.

Well, don't listen to what LW said, he misunderstood what you refers to by death spiral. I don't know every European health system, but from what I gather, they either use something like the insurance mandate (Netherlands) or health-care is largely funded by taxes so death spiral is not an issue as healthy people are taxed too (France, UK... Belgium is also mostly tax-funded).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 09, 2017, 05:10:38 am

Quote from: TempAcc on March 08, 2017, 09:28:00 pm

Me thinks you kinda just answered your own question.

French prosecution: "hey guys we want this bullshit accusation to go through so we can smear this one presidential candidate we don't like because we're corrupt frogs"

EU: "sounds good to me ok"

Aye. The EU gives such immunity to protect the freedom of speech of MEPs from unwarranted prosecution and then comes along a eurosceptic publishing war crimes and the EU decides it's suddenly ok to fuck freedom of speech - the rights of our tribe will be respected, the rights of our enemies will be oppressed. To me, divisions of nationality are not so significant in this matter. I am puzzled by how for example, just as people assume I would be pleased if this was solely the fault of the French establishment and not the collective failure of the European establishment, they argued that I should be ok with British politicians empowering the EU at the expense of the UK because it was British politicians doing it. As if I was to have blind loyalty and obedience to a label, and not my own principles. If this was done by a state, private, supranational entity, the French, the Germans, the Belgians, Europe or a homogenous mass of nothing, makes no matter to the injustice occurring - only changes who is to be held accountable. French establishment, EU establishment, both are in mutual support to carry out injustice. Attacking both is entirely logical, otherwise the French eurosceptics would be allowing one half of their opponent's apparatus to remain entirely unscathed, when the entire apparatus is used to silence them

Journalists, rappers, politicians etc., the bounds of European oppression are ever increasing in scope. Yesterday Europeans tried silencing those who tried to break the lid on the grooming gangs, the collapse of civil law in areas of Europe and the list goes on to things like the the NYE attacks or the Bataclan tortures. Today they're going after people who publish war crimes committed by ISIS with consensus of the EU parliament. It's a sick joke, sick because you'll never get your freedom of expression back, it will take generations to undo the damage done and in today's world I'm not even sure if it'll be reversible. It could just very well become a new social norm - in this thread we've already had people suggest this be normal. To put it frankly, neoliberalism is declining in the world, and its apparatuses of power are being inherited by far left and far right groups across the world. Then your causes will be subjected to the tools your cause created - thus even if you believe freedom of expression is not worth respecting, you can see your cause is digging its own grave

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Well, don't listen to what LW said, he misunderstood what you refers to by death spiral. I don't know every European health system, but from what I gather, they either use something like the insurance mandate (Netherlands) or health-care is largely funded by taxes so death spiral is not an issue as healthy people are taxed too (France, UK... Belgium is also mostly tax-funded).

Sheb, telling people to ignore me is not an argument. I do suppose that shows the very EU approved way of handling debate, simply tell everyone else to shut up lmao

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2017, 07:03:17 pm

Most countries pretend it doesn't exist and are waiting for the issue to be passed on to future leaders to deal with. So I imagine when the time comes, since the death spiral will hit governments instead of private insurers, they'll just begin cutting public coverage and services for certain demographics. Probably gonna start with smokers, alcoholics, obese and so on; either that, or just borrow loadsa money and push the debt off for future generations to deal with

Allow me to put things plainer. State funded healthcare has not solved the issue, because with an ageing population, combined with a young population that disregards its health, the state tax base is eroding itself to death. Thus taxes will have to be raised, borrowing will have to increase, or public services/coverage will have to be cut. I'm not sorry for showing less concern for the healthcare insurance industry than the healthcare industry, and ultimately the welfare of people - as European healthcare models are different from the USA but faced by a similar issue the US insurance industry has. The USA insurance industry needs lots of healthy people to buy insurance they will never need. The European state healthcare system needs lots of taxpayers paying into national insurance they will never need to use.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 05:28:32 am

That's not the same as the US kind of death spiral where healthy people don't buy insurance. It's a totally different problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:54:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Yes, I am aware the toll service still exist. It was hyperbole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 10, 2017, 02:23:50 am

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:54:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Yes, I am aware the toll service still exist. It was hyperbole.

What you say??? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDhAEmODyzw)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 03:27:15 am

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:54:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Yes, I am aware the toll service still exist. It was hyperbole.

You do realize how low the standard of conversation would get if everyone hyperboled even half as hard as you do, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 10, 2017, 04:24:59 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 03:27:15 am

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:54:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Yes, I am aware the toll service still exist. It was hyperbole.

You do realize how low the standard of conversation would get if everyone hyperboled even half as hard as you do, right?

It would be LW level?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 04:36:23 am

Probably would just degenerate to calling each others nazis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 06:10:10 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 03:27:15 am

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:54:47 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 09, 2017, 04:59:05 am

Quote from: scriver on March 08, 2017, 04:04:34 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2017, 11:55:09 am

The EU was giving the UK leeway because the EU isn't a state and doesn't have custom officers of its own it could dispatch.

It's funny, Sweden is no longer allowed to have custom officers because of the EU.

Sweden: the original rebel. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Customs_Service)

Yes, I am aware the toll service still exist. It was hyperbole.

You do realize how low the standard of conversation would get if everyone hyperboled even half as hard as you do, right?

About as low as if everyone gave another as little credit as  you do, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:05:55 am

Ok, what was the point of that statement of yours then, enlighten me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2017, 07:32:44 am

In a new episode to the drama, in which Germany and the Netherlands are trying to stop Trukish ministers from coming to their countries to campaign for Erdogan's referendum:

Apparently, that is forbidden according to Turkish law. So while Erdogan called Germany 'worse than Nazi Germany' over it, and many sneers were passed by Turkish media about the west commenting on human rights and democracy in Turkey, but banning political speech in their own country, it is just simply illegal.

The Turkish law, article 94/A of the new 2008 voting law, in referral to article 10 of the constitution states: " In foreign nations, and in representations situated abroad, it is not allowed to make electoral propaganda".

So the Turkish minister of foreign affairs will break the Turkish law when he decides to come to the Netherlands.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/opinieblog-die-welt-turkse-wet-verbiedt-verkiezingsstrijd-in-het-buitenland~a4459022/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/opinie/opinieblog-die-welt-turkse-wet-verbiedt-verkiezingsstrijd-in-het-buitenland~a4459022/)

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article162717184/Tuerkisches-Gesetz-verbietet-explizit-den-Wahlkampf-im-Ausland.html?wtrid=socialmedia.socialflow....socialflow_twitter (https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article162717184/Tuerkisches-Gesetz-verbietet-explizit-den-Wahlkampf-im-Ausland.html?wtrid=socialmedia.socialflow....socialflow_twitter)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:41:01 am

Seems Wilder's PVV is largely financed by Americans. How is that legal? (https://qz.com/928684/the-dutch-far-rights-election-donors-are-almost-exclusively-american/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 11:56:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:05:55 am

Ok, what was the point of that statement of yours then, enlighten me.

The point is that the EU has mandated and encouraged downsizing of the department to the point where it barely  exists, and that has had the obvious consequence  of weapon and drug smuggling increasing exponentially, as well as smuggling of stolen goods outwards getting out of control.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 12:00:23 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2017, 11:56:32 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:05:55 am

Ok, what was the point of that statement of yours then, enlighten me.

The point is that the EU has mandated and encouraged downsizing of the department to the point where it barely  exists, and that has had the obvious consequence  of weapon and drug smuggling increasing exponentially, as well as smuggling of stolen goods outwards getting out of control.

Can you source that the EU mandated reduction in the size of the custom department, or is that more hyperbole? I tried to look it up quickly but couldn't find anything, and it seems weird as that's not a power the union has AFAK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 01:32:41 pm

Apologies, those were meant to be separate. The EU mandates what the toll service can and can't do and the downsizing happens as a consequence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 01:43:59 pm

So basically, you blame the EU because since Sweden joins the custom union there is less work for the Swedish Customs to do so the Swedish government decided to downsize it, which led to an increase in smuggling? (I'm taking your word for the increase in smuggling since the EU became a thing, because google results are full of Breitbart stuff about people smugglers)

I mean, I would think that the Swedish Customs service would have kept enough staff to fullfill some of the needed services.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 10, 2017, 01:56:03 pm

Fun fact: Hitler was a customs official.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 02:42:59 pm

No, I am saying that since we joined the EU we are no longer allowed to search incoming traffic to the extent necessary to catch smugglers and as a result the smuggling has increased. The toll service has been downsized because there is no point in having them if they are not allowed to search or investigate incoming traffic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 10, 2017, 02:50:48 pm

What sheb is asking for I think is some sort of written or researched proof of that completely logical claim.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2017, 04:04:55 pm

An article saying the staff of the toll service has been nearly halved since 1994. (http://www.hn.se/i-tullens-tj%C3%A4nst-med-r%C3%A4tt-att-sniffa-knark-1.1818296?)
An opinion piece from 2004 describing how the department is going to be even more cut down after the 2004 expansion with the motivation that they are no longer needed to handle legal transports, but that the cuts include staff dealing with illegal transports (https://www.svd.se/sabotera-inte-gransskyddet)


Article in the paper of a transport union about how smuggling has increased since 1994 and how the toll services has more trouble catching smugglers (http://www.transportarbetaren.se/Transportarbetaren/Start/Nyheter1/Allt-mer-smuggling-efter-EU-intradet/). It also also has this little fact window comparing confiscated goods in 1994 to 2012 (while noting again that the staff has been cut from over 3000 to 2200): Tullbeslag totalt i Sverige 1994 (sista året före EU-inträdet):

Quote

Cannabis 206 kg
Amfetamin 88 kg
Kokain 22 kg
Heroin 15 kg

Tullbeslag totalt i Sverige 2012:
Cannabis 1 500 kg
Amfetamin 171 kg
Kokain 26 kg
Heroin 6 kg*

The low number for heroin is noted as probably being a statistical anomaly as it was 33 kg in both 2011 and -10

An article about the rampant weapon smuggling (http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/darfor-stoppas-inte-vapensmugglingen/)
A police rapport from 2014 following up on the rapports of previous years showing an increase in confiscated weapons. (https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Regleringsbrev/Minska_inforseln_av_illegala_skjutvapen_2014_10_31.pdf)

Finding any kind of combined statistics for alcohol smuggling over a lot of years proved a lot harder than I thought but there was a plethora of "this year smuggling of alcohol increased compared to last year" articles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 10, 2017, 04:37:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:41:01 am

Seems Wilder's PVV is largely financed by Americans. How is that legal? (https://qz.com/928684/the-dutch-far-rights-election-donors-are-almost-exclusively-american/)

Because it wasn't made illegal? Marine LePen is being financed by Russian banks herself. Washington DC would probably pout and go 'why are you locking us out? We wanna meddle.' If you tried to make it illegal. Not that we'd be able to do anything about it anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 06:02:54 am

The Turkish minister of foreign affairs was on his way to the Netherlands to hold a manifestation about the Turkish referendum in Rotterdam.

The Dutch government decided to cancel the flight's landing rights, and sent it back to Turkey.
Turkey has threatened the Netherlands with severe sanctions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 11, 2017, 07:26:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 06:02:54 am

The Turkish minister of foreign affairs was on his way to the Netherlands to hold a manifestation about the Turkish referendum in Rotterdam.

The Dutch government decided to cancel the flight's landing rights, and sent it back to Turkey.
Turkey has threatened the Netherlands with severe sanctions.

I still find it hilarious that the political campaigning in foreign countries is illegal according to the Turkish law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 09:32:27 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 11, 2017, 07:26:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 06:02:54 am

The Turkish minister of foreign affairs was on his way to the Netherlands to hold a manifestation about the Turkish referendum in Rotterdam.

The Dutch government decided to cancel the flight's landing rights, and sent it back to Turkey.
Turkey has threatened the Netherlands with severe sanctions.

I still find it hilarious that the political campaigning in foreign countries is illegal according to the Turkish law.

Funnier yet that they are breaking their own law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 11:34:29 am

Erdogan has responded by calling the Netherlands 'nazi-remnants and fascists'. Furthermore he announced that the foreign minister is now in a car, heading for the Netherlands over land instead of by plane, and he won't be stoppped.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 11, 2017, 12:13:39 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 11:34:29 am

Erdogan has responded by calling the Netherlands 'nazi-remnants and fascists'.

So he's saying he admires them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 11, 2017, 03:01:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 11:34:29 am

Furthermore he announced that the foreign minister is now in a car, heading for the Netherlands over land instead of by plane, and he won't be stoppped.

According to my Russian sources (https://news.rambler.ru/world/36306271-v-niderlandah-politsiya-ostanovila-avtomobil-turetskogo-ministra/), the Netherlands police has stopped the Turkish minister.

In other news, weather report indicates a large storm of nazi insults coming from Ankara into Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 11, 2017, 03:23:44 pm

He won't get stopped!

Gets stopped.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 11, 2017, 04:21:13 pm

Good thing it's not 2016 any more. Then this might have turned out really ugly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 11, 2017, 04:25:14 pm

Can we begin blaming things on 2017 yet?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 04:26:32 pm

The Turks sent another minister, the minister of Family Affairs, Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya, who was in Germany. She has arrived in Rotterdam and joined protests at the residence of the Turkish consul. Erdogan has said "you may stop a minister from landing in your country, but you will have to see now how Dutch planes trying to land in Turkey will fare".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 05:42:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 11:34:29 am

Erdogan has responded by calling the Netherlands 'nazi-remnants and fascists'. Furthermore he announced that the foreign minister is now in a car, heading for the Netherlands over land instead of by plane, and he won't be stoppped.

ROFL!

They are certainly determined.....

Gonna be a LOOOONG drive.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 04:26:32 pm

The Turks sent another minister, the minister of Family Affairs, Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya, who was in Germany. She has arrived in Rotterdam and joined protests at the residence of the Turkish consul. Erdogan has said "you may stop a minister from landing in your country, but you will have to see now how Dutch planes trying to land in Turkey will fare".

This is turning into a massive political-peen fight isn't it? Metaphorical of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 11, 2017, 05:47:56 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 05:42:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 11:34:29 am

Erdogan has responded by calling the Netherlands 'nazi-remnants and fascists'. Furthermore he announced that the foreign minister is now in a car, heading for the Netherlands over land instead of by plane, and he won't be stoppped.

ROFL!

They are certainly determined.....

Gonna be a LOOOONG drive.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 04:26:32 pm

The Turks sent another minister, the minister of Family Affairs, Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya, who was in Germany. She has arrived in Rotterdam and joined protests at the residence of the Turkish consul. Erdogan has said "you may stop a minister from landing in your country, but you will have to see now how Dutch planes trying to land in Turkey will fare".

This is turning into a massive political-peen fight isn't it? Metaphorical of course.

The whole situation is a symptom of Turkey having destroyed it's own democracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 11, 2017, 06:50:20 pm

i think its a trait of megalomaniacal dictators to get angry and irrational when others laugh in their faces.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 08:52:21 pm

Our government stopped the minister of Family Affairs from making a speech in Rotterdam, and with a lot of ruckus deported her back to Germany around 1AM, while thousands of angry Netherturks were protesting outside the consulate. The (Moroccan) mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, has issued a local state of emergency to control the protests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 08:54:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 08:52:21 pm

Our government stopped the minister of Family Affairs from making a speech in Rotterdam, and with a lot of ruckus deported her back to Germany around 1AM, while thousands of angry Netherturks were protesting outside the consulate. The (Moroccan) mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, has issued a local state of emergency to control the protests.

'Netherturks' sounds wierd. lol. The word does I mean. I know you mean Turk(ish)-Dutch.

edit: The Rotterdam mayor is Moroccan? didn't know that.

edit2: Austria is doing the same with Erdogan and his rallies. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39105683)

Going out of the country to try to rally votes from those that live outside of the country seems like a really strange thing to do to me. I mean, even, aside from overseas military, even though only Democrats living abroad are allowed to vote (I have absolutely no idea why Republicans or independents living abroad can't. Military abroad is a different thing)*, you don't see candidates hopping overseas to court those votes. Besides, other countries would probably tell the candidates to buzz off, and we'd say the same of foriegn politicians (except maybe Mexico and Canada) trying to rally votes here in the US.

*edit: Nvm, I was thinking of the delegates in the National Conventions for the two parties, not votes per se.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 11, 2017, 10:20:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 08:54:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 08:52:21 pm

Our government stopped the minister of Family Affairs from making a speech in Rotterdam, and with a lot of ruckus deported her back to Germany around 1AM, while thousands of angry Netherturks were protesting outside the consulate. The (Moroccan) mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, has issued a local state of emergency to control the protests.

'Netherturks' sounds wierd. lol. The word does I mean. I know you mean Turk(ish)-Dutch.

edit: The Rotterdam mayor is Moroccan? didn't know that.

edit2: Austria is doing the same with Erdogan and his rallies. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39105683)

Going out of the country to try to rally votes from those that live outside of the country seems like a really strange thing to do to me. I mean, even, aside from overseas military, even though only Democrats living abroad are allowed to vote (I have absolutely no idea why Republicans or independents living abroad can't. Military abroad is a different thing), you don't see candidates hopping overseas to court those votes. Besides, other countries would probably tell the candidates to buzz off, and we'd say the same of foriegn politicians (except maybe Mexico and Canada) trying to rally votes here in the US.

is it really a thing that only democrats can send in votes from abroad? i have never heard of that before and it doesn't make much sense. can you confirm that statement?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 10:28:08 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 11, 2017, 10:20:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 11, 2017, 08:54:56 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 11, 2017, 08:52:21 pm

Our government stopped the minister of Family Affairs from making a speech in Rotterdam, and with a lot of ruckus deported her back to Germany around 1AM, while thousands of angry Netherturks were protesting outside the consulate. The (Moroccan) mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, has issued a local state of emergency to control the protests.

'Netherturks' sounds wierd. lol. The word does I mean. I know you mean Turk(ish)-Dutch.

edit: The Rotterdam mayor is Moroccan? didn't know that.

edit2: Austria is doing the same with Erdogan and his rallies. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39105683)

Going out of the country to try to rally votes from those that live outside of the country seems like a really strange thing to do to me. I mean, even, aside from overseas military, even though only Democrats living abroad are allowed to vote (I have absolutely no idea why Republicans or independents living abroad can't. Military abroad is a different thing), you don't see candidates hopping overseas to court those votes. Besides, other countries would probably tell the candidates to buzz off, and we'd say the same of foriegn politicians (except maybe Mexico and Canada) trying to rally votes here in the US.

is it really a thing that only democrats can send in votes from abroad? i have never heard of that before and it doesn't make much sense. can you confirm that statement?

I was thinking of the delegates not votes, my mistake. Still odd that Republicans abroad don't get representation in the Republican National Convention. Edited my original post with correction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 02:38:51 am

You can't trust people that haven been exposed to foreign though now, can you?

More seriously, it's not unheard off to go to place with a lot of your citizens abroad. Macron for exemple recently gave a big speech in London.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 12, 2017, 02:54:16 am

The whole diplomatic riot between Turkey and the Netherlands is quite a mess.

We have national elections comming up this week, and this riot will likely be the main news item for the comming few days, and may well decide who will win the Dutch elections.
There's a good chance it will be favourable for the populists and others that are though on immigration, and "scary foreign involvement".

Turkey knew very well when they send their ministers that they would not just be influencing their own referendum here, but the Dutch national elections too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2017, 05:48:40 am

The Turkish minister of Family Affairs has complained that she has been treated inhumanely by Dutch police, and complains that 5 of her security guards have been arrested.

Last night's protests in Rotterdam saw 12 people arrested, and 7 injured, amongst whom one police officer.

Turkish national television has called upon the (nearly a million) Turks in the Netherlands to revolt against the government, and accused the Netherlands of breaching every single last international law and human rights conventions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 12, 2017, 06:36:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2017, 05:48:40 am

called upon the (nearly a million) Turks in the Netherlands to revolt against the government

This time there won't be Winged Hussars to save Yourop. ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2017, 08:42:55 am

There's about 20.000 Poles working in the Netherlands, perhaps more, because planting season has arrived.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 12, 2017, 08:54:25 am

1:5?
Well, Hussars once won against 1:175 odds, so maybe the Netherlands aren't lost...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 09:10:14 am

So, martinuzz, I've heard a couple things about DENK, the party that apprently targets mostly Dutch of Turkish and Morroccans descent. What are they running on, what are their policies and stuff? How are they viewed?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DreamerGhost on March 12, 2017, 09:48:07 am

Quote from: Kot on March 12, 2017, 08:54:25 am

1:5?
Well, Hussars once won against 1:175 odds, so maybe the Netherlands aren't lost...

Wait what?
You can't kill that many people your arms would get tired.
On more serious note, which battle was this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 09:51:19 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 02:38:51 am

You can't trust people that haven been exposed to foreign though now, can you?

More seriously, it's not unheard off to go to place with a lot of your citizens abroad. Macron for exemple recently gave a big speech in London.

It's generally not done in the US presidential campaign because it's mainly a waste of time, and time is a precious resource during campaigns . Though Obama did go to Germany once.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2017, 05:48:40 am

called upon the (nearly a million) Turks in the Netherlands to revolt against the government

The intent behind 'revolt' here may differ whether they mean vote against the government or not. If they mean 'vote', then that's pretty intense meddling in local politics If they meant like 'resist the government', then that's pretty harsh rhetoric. Though either way, it only makes relations worse.

On the subject of the upcoming Dutch elections, I wonder if Turkey is trying to get Geert Wilders elected? Because Geert Wilders obviously wouldn't be a friend to Turks.

Quote from: DreamerGhost on March 12, 2017, 09:48:07 am

Quote from: Kot on March 12, 2017, 08:54:25 am

1:5?
Well, Hussars once won against 1:175 odds, so maybe the Netherlands aren't lost...

Wait what?
You can't kill that many people your arms would get tired.
On more serious note, which battle was this?

Maybe they used firearms? Or maybe the other side was incompetent. Also curious as to what battle it was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 12, 2017, 10:00:48 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 09:10:14 am

So, martinuzz, I've heard a couple things about DENK, the party that apprently targets mostly Dutch of Turkish and Morroccans descent. What are they running on, what are their policies and stuff? How are they viewed?

They are viewed as Erdogan's puppets and idiots. For example they got caught using troll accounts to smear political opponents.

Seriously, public opinion is that they are quite pathetic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 12, 2017, 10:10:29 am

Battle of Hodów. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hod%C3%B3w) Of course (^^ ) I gave the biggest army estimate for Crimean Khanate, but even the most commonly accepted is 1:100. The actual battle was something of a... Rorke's Drift, where most of it took place on really short distance and gunpowder weapons were mostly used as help for melee combat. Only 100 of them were actual Hussars though, 300 were just Pancerni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towarzysz_pancerny) which were a sort of step down from the heavy armour and weapons of Hussars, and of course, no wings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2017, 01:11:32 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 09:10:14 am

So, martinuzz, I've heard a couple things about DENK, the party that apprently targets mostly Dutch of Turkish and Morroccans descent. What are they running on, what are their policies and stuff? How are they viewed?

Best way to put it, Denk are the Turkish / Moroccan version of Wilders. Populists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 02:24:37 pm

It seems to be escalating a bit, at least rhetoric wise. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-netherlands-idUSKBN16J0IU)

Hopefully it doesn't get to the point of people taking action, so far it's mainly just screaming at each other, with Erdogan doing the great majority of the screaming.

edit: Now it appears that Dennmark has joined the fray, but it appears to just be the optics and timing of the whole thing. (http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/12/europe/turkish-dutch-tensions-increase/index.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 04:15:31 pm

Covenant, why didn't you link directly from the Central Bureau of (or maybe for) Statistics rather than an imgurreddit hosted image? Or at least the article it came from.

As for the image itself, well, you'd have to look at how they got their data. Also, a comparison with past years would be informative as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 04:24:41 pm

Probably because he got it from some right-wing subreddit, not an article. , but I don't know enough about the dutch social system to interpret them*. Also, it seems kinda weird to classify foreigners as "western" and "non-western". I'd expect something like "EU" and "Not EU" instead.

*From a quick look at other tables, it doesn't seem to include unemployment benefits for exemple.  (http://statline.cbs.nl/Statweb/publication/?DM=SLNL&PA=82016ned&D1=0-2&D2=(l-13)-l&D3=(l-11)-l&VW[/url)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 04:33:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 12, 2017, 04:30:06 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 04:24:41 pm

Probably because he got it from some right-wing subreddit, not an article.

Don't worry, I got written permission from CNN before looking at the statistics, it's fine.

Why? It's a fairly good reason to just post the link, given that you didn't bother digging up the original source and that posting the image to the subreddit would just lead to people discussiong the validity of the subreddit instead of the stats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 12, 2017, 04:42:29 pm

Still, the amount of benefits-recipients is pretty darn high among immigrants:

https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/achtergrond/2016/47/uitkeringen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 04:44:03 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 04:33:37 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 12, 2017, 04:30:06 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 04:24:41 pm

Probably because he got it from some right-wing subreddit, not an article.

Don't worry, I got written permission from CNN before looking at the statistics, it's fine.

Why? It's a fairly good reason to just post the link, given that you didn't bother digging up the original source and that posting the image to the subreddit would just lead to people discussiong the validity of the subreddit instead of the stats.

Exactly, theres no reason to not just post the link if it's from a CNN article. Also, I was going to rebuke you (Covenant that is) for posting a reddit hosted image because without a source, you might as well be linking from imgur, then I realized that the site in the image you posted is a legit Dutch government bureau.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 04:57:38 pm

It was just criticising the use of just a reddit hosted image rather than a link to an actual article, but okay, moving on.

Back on topic, from Antioch's link, looks like it's nothing new and has actually been going on for decades.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 05:00:12 pm

Hey, I was just explaining to smjjames why you didn't post the link to the source. I'd rather discuss the state too, which is why I dug up the origin and linked to it (but the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that AOW refers to pension age).

But for the record, if you HAD found that on CNN, they'd probably have given you the background you want.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 05:04:04 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 05:00:12 pm

Hey, I was just explaining to smjjames why you didn't post the link to the source. I'd rather discuss the state too, which is why I dug up the origin and linked to it (but the only thing I've been able to ascertain is that AOW refers to pension age).

But for the record, if you HAD found that on CNN, they'd probably have given you the background you want.  :P

I thought you were also criticising Covenant, but anyway, MOVING ON.

As I said earlier, we'd have to look at the specifics of how the CBS got their data. The link that Antioch posted is just a descripion of what happened between two different years and the only description of the why is this bit at the end (english translation off of google:
"Individuals with a non-western background are often dependent on the assistance than those with a Dutch background. For various reasons it is more difficult for them to find work and keep . Thus, they often build fewer years of service at an employer, making them move more of unemployment benefits to help."

Though from the graph, it looks like it's a systemic problem that's been happening for decades and not something that started happening in like, the last decade.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 05:17:50 pm

Does it refers to the same thing? It's not clear that the pics of Covenant refers to the same people as the one in the CBS stats. Are those foreigners or just dutch of non-western decent?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 05:30:35 pm

Yeah, who need background, The_Donald contains the whole truth.  ::)  Myself, I'm like you, I never trust the mainstream media, they might not agree with me! Imagine the horror!

Sure, the number are real, but it's not even clear what they refers to for exemple. I don't think they're immigrants at all, but rather Dutch descending from non-western immigrants for exemple. It's also not clear what part of the welfare state this refers to. It doesn't include stuff like unemployment benefits where non-western allochtone accounts for something aotal. (http://statline.cbs.nl/Statweb/publication/?DM=SLNL&PA=83427NED&D1=1&D2=0&D3=0&D4=1-4&D5=108-113&HDR=T&STB=G1,G2,G3,G4&VW=T)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 05:38:14 pm

Yeah, for this kind of thing, you have to be specific of what exactly you're measuring because even if you're looking at the exact same subject, immigrants on welfare in this case, changing even one parameter, like what part of the welfare state or even legal vs illegal can make it look completely different. Also, the one Antioch posted is of a specific subset of immigrants and not immigrants as a whole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 05:53:00 pm

What do you mean "reticent about the state of EU politics"? Schultz is awesome, Macron is great, Wilders is a cunt, but his chance of getting into government are minimal (he probable doesn't want it, his kind fare better fromt he opposition. We've seen that with the NVA in Belgium for exemple).

It's quite galling that you blame me for not wanting to discuss stuff when I actually went to try to make head or tail of the data and put them in what context I could figure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2017, 06:46:32 pm

More like a wake-up call I'd say. With luck the stuff that came as tragedy in the 30's will only repeat itself as a (short) farce and won't last.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 06:56:26 pm

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similariry there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one, other than the run-up to WWII that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 12, 2017, 07:03:02 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 06:56:26 pm

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similarity there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one.

There was strong dislike for certain ethnicities that happened to be living in Europe, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 12, 2017, 07:03:52 pm

Sure there was. All the damn Jews were trying to get into the US! Luckily you managed to stop them, at least to a degree.

Also for some reason the German biological clock went haywire, and they started migrating to the East for winter...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 13, 2017, 02:17:39 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 06:56:26 pm

There's a few similarities with the 30's, yes, notably the Nationalism and populism, but that's pretty much the only similariry there are far more differences than similarities. There wasn't any kind of immigration crisis in the 1930's I don't believe, for one, other than the run-up to WWII that is.

Well, in much of Europe we had ethnic minorities a plenty and not just Jews, even though they were usually not "recent" (aka less than a century) arrival. Central and Eastern Europe was a mish mash of Jews, Germans, Poles, Czech and Slovaks, Hungarians, Romanians, Ukrainians etc etc. German were the most ruthless and murderous, but they were far from alone. Ukrainian partisans massacred poles, Czech violently cleansed Germans out after the war, etc etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on March 13, 2017, 08:01:04 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 10, 2017, 04:37:12 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 10, 2017, 07:41:01 am

Seems Wilder's PVV is largely financed by Americans. How is that legal? (https://qz.com/928684/the-dutch-far-rights-election-donors-are-almost-exclusively-american/)

Because it wasn't made illegal? Marine LePen is being financed by Russian banks herself. Washington DC would probably pout and go 'why are you locking us out? We wanna meddle.' If you tried to make it illegal. Not that we'd be able to do anything about it anyway.

Bit of a necro, but is this common in Europe? Not having laws against foreign campaign spending in domestic elections?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 13, 2017, 09:23:48 am

Depends on countries I guess. In France, the Le Pen thing was technically a loan, not a donation. In Belgium our campaign finance law are very strict, so it wouldn't fly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 13, 2017, 02:19:53 pm

Campaign donations of considerable size are frowned upon no matter the source or party in Dutch elections.
The system is quite different from the USA.

Some parties have a system where their politicians agree to turn in a -sometimes very considerable- part of their wage ( like the SP, they are by far the richest party) or have other systems were members pay some form of contribution. There are goverment subsidies too. Total campaign spending in the previous elections was aparently 10.7 million for all parties combined (we have quite a few).

Can't find much about the PVV but Wilders makes it a point not to accept any members to his party exept for himself, because, ehm because you can't trust anyone but yourself. That, and sharing power is difficult too. That means that he is completely dependent on outside donations. His finances are likely not that different in size from other parties, but it's hard to find anything specific.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2017, 02:55:03 pm

Doesn't the PVV already have like 20 seats in Dutch Parliament though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 13, 2017, 03:42:56 pm

Yes, and he has to appoint ministers for that obviously, but they are not really known for their personal oppinions. The PVV clearly states their party has only one member, Wilders. He tries to keep his party small and manageable. The last elections on a local level the PVV only participated in two municipalities out of about 350 for that reason. Keeps the amount of scandals low.

The populist party for the common man, until they want to actually participate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2017, 03:48:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 13, 2017, 02:55:03 pm

Doesn't the PVV already have like 20 seats in Dutch Parliament though?

15

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 13, 2017, 04:14:33 pm

"Netherlands is capital of fascism", according to Turkey's foreign minister. (http://www.dw.com/en/turkeys-cavusoglu-netherlands-is-capital-of-fascism/a-37910611) A rather unorthodox statement, to say the least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 13, 2017, 05:52:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 13, 2017, 04:14:33 pm

"Netherlands is capital of fascism", according to Turkey's foreign minister. (http://www.dw.com/en/turkeys-cavusoglu-netherlands-is-capital-of-fascism/a-37910611) A rather unorthodox statement, to say the least.

A rather peculiar statement coming from a government that:

1. Fired tens of thousands of judges, journalists, teachers and police officers for there (alleged) political affiliations.
2. cancels the parliaments immunity so it can persecute opposition leaders
3. Closes or takes over several newspapers due to their criticism on the government.
4. Arrests hundreds of people for "insulting the president" including gems like this: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkish-newspapers-cook-arrested-insulting-erdogan-952785857
5. Cites Nazi germany as a good example of an effective presidential system
6. Tries to consolidate all power in the hands of its great leader through a referendum

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 14, 2017, 02:40:06 am

Quote from: Bralbaard on March 13, 2017, 02:19:53 pm

Campaign donations of considerable size are frowned upon no matter the source or party in Dutch elections.
The system is quite different from the USA.

Some parties have a system where their politicians agree to turn in a -sometimes very considerable- part of their wage ( like the SP, they are by far the richest party) or have other systems were members pay some form of contribution. There are goverment subsidies too. Total campaign spending in the previous elections was aparently 10.7 million for all parties combined (we have quite a few).

Can't find much about the PVV but Wilders makes it a point not to accept any members to his party exept for himself, because, ehm because you can't trust anyone but yourself. That, and sharing power is difficult too. That means that he is completely dependent on outside donations. His finances are likely not that different in size from other parties, but it's hard to find anything specific.

In Belgium that's actually by law how it works: parties are funded by the state, member contribution and from a cut of their elected official's salaries. Campaigns are funded by the parties, the state and private candidate (although some parties like the Green, ban their candidates from spending on their campaign). Outside donation would certainly be illegal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 14, 2017, 02:45:43 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 13, 2017, 05:52:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 13, 2017, 04:14:33 pm

"Netherlands is capital of fascism", according to Turkey's foreign minister. (http://www.dw.com/en/turkeys-cavusoglu-netherlands-is-capital-of-fascism/a-37910611) A rather unorthodox statement, to say the least.

A rather peculiar statement coming from a government that:

1. Fired tens of thousands of judges, journalists, teachers and police officers for there (alleged) political affiliations.
2. cancels the parliaments immunity so it can persecute opposition leaders
3. Closes or takes over several newspapers due to their criticism on the government.
4. Arrests hundreds of people for "insulting the president" including gems like this: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkish-newspapers-cook-arrested-insulting-erdogan-952785857
5. Cites Nazi germany as a good example of an effective presidential system
6. Tries to consolidate all power in the hands of its great leader through a referendum

Yeah, they're pretty hypocritic, in a very stupidly blatant way.

Anyway, they've effectively severed diplomatic relationships with Netherlands. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39262002) I dunno what to say, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 14, 2017, 02:46:45 am

Well, creating drama to drum up votes for his referendum. Seems quite effective.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 14, 2017, 05:48:58 am

A nice piece about the absolute mess that was (and is) the response to the refugees influx in Greece. (http://souciant.com/2017/03/the-refugee-archipelago/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 14, 2017, 07:21:57 am

The dumbfuck Erdogan has said in a live TV broadcast that "we already knew the rotten character of the Netherlands, back from when they were responsible for the death of thousands of muslims in Srebrenica in 1995".

That will rub a lot of traumatized Dutchbat veterans the wrong way.

There are some rumours that the Netherlands is considering suspending the association treaty between Turkey and the EU, although our prime minister has said that's not on the table.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 14, 2017, 07:32:48 am

Erdogan strikes again!

accuses the Netherlands of killing 8000 Bosnians during the fall of Srebrenica.

And advices giving himself more power in the upcoming election.



http://nos.nl/artikel/2163086-erdogan-geeft-stemadvies-en-beschuldigt-nederland-van-massamoord.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 14, 2017, 07:37:11 am

Dutch Prime minister responds by calling it "a blatant falsification of history" (which it is)

Found this nice image mocking Turkeys referendum:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C64a6JrWoAEecCs.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 14, 2017, 09:10:50 am

Almost seems like Erdogan is asking to be kicked out of NATO over such sheneinighans, which are unprecedented as far as I know.

And yeah, I can easily see him immediately dismissing the parliament and instituting a permanent 'state of emergency'.

Turkey is now complaing to the UN that Dutch behavior violates something about the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-complains-to-un-about-dutch-behavior-rotterdam-erdogan-constitution-netherlands/) The Dutch keep trying to de-escalate while the Turks are intentionally escalating it and could stop at any time they wished to.

edit: I tried looking at the Turkish paper link on that article (which is in english) and apparently the Turkish parliament is deciding on non-economic sanctions at the Dutch and also barring Dutch flights from landing or something.

Where even are they going with this? What's the endgame? They are certainly burning whatever bridges that they have left. NATO and EU officials have also called for restraint from both sides, but as far as I can tell, the Dutch are trying to be restrained while the Turks keep escalating,

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on March 14, 2017, 02:01:21 pm

Erdogan has gone Maximum CKII once the coup attempt last year failed.

Seriously, it's to distract the Turkish public from the increasingly shitty situation at home I guess. The Dutch (and the rest of Europe) have made quite a bit of noise over Turkey's backward slide into dictatorship again, so the Turkish government has to discredit them in some way to prevent such views from gaining much traction domestically. Kind of like an ad hominem attack, except between governments.

BTW, I don't think Erdogan is afraid of Russia or views them as a threat, so that could be why he's not too worried over being kicked out of NATO - he can use that to drum up more anger against the West, while it doesn't really affect Turkey much (in his view).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 14, 2017, 04:55:54 pm

I don't know if Erdogan is doing this for his support at home. Having a different political opinion in Turkey is enough to get you fired or worse, and that alone will likely have him win the referendum. Besides that, he seems to be quite popular in Turkey regardless of what he does, he doesn't need to throw his daily tantrum against the Dutch for that.

He's likely doing it to destabilise Europe further. If the populists win in tomorrow's Dutch election it will be another blow for a unified Europe, and this whole mess is definitely pushing a lot of voters towards voting for anti-immigration parties.
The over the top accussations might just be bait. If another country bites and expells diplomats he might well take the opportunity to open te gates to Europe for fugitives again, or he might stop checking for Isis fighters. More fugitives will be perfect fuel for the populists. There are quite a few important elections in Europe this year, and the outcome will have a big influence on Erdogan's own ambitions and influence. A unified Europe is not in his interests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 01:34:19 am

Fun moment from the evening's debate in the Netherlands: Geert Wilders calls Mohammed a pedophile on live TV. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s) Amazing, to be honest. If I were Dutch, I would definitely vote for his party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 15, 2017, 07:02:37 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 01:34:19 am

Fun moment from the evening's debate in the Netherlands: Geert Wilders calls Mohammed a pedophile on live TV. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s) Amazing, to be honest. If I were Dutch, I would definitely vote for his party.

Well, I didn't

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 15, 2017, 07:34:35 am

...Facebook should start preparing Dutch flag filter...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 15, 2017, 08:04:12 am

So, when can we expect exit polls? Is it like France, where it's illegal to release them until then end of polling?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 15, 2017, 08:16:21 am

yes.

Expect exit-polls after the voting has ended, at 21:00 local time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 15, 2017, 09:35:48 am

If they send Wilders to the wilderness I swear I'm paying a round tonight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:28:54 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 15, 2017, 07:50:14 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 01:34:19 am

Fun moment from the evening's debate in the Netherlands: Geert Wilders calls Mohammed a pedophile on live TV. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s) Amazing, to be honest. If I were Dutch, I would definitely vote for his party.

Doubly ballsy when you consider that Dutch people who speak up against Islam have a history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) of being assassinated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)).

Best of luck to the Dutch, here's hoping they stand up for their country and its culture.

Yup. Pretty sure Wilders has constant police protection because of death threats and risk of assassination by immigrants and their descendants with barbaric iron-age beliefs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:31:20 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:28:54 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 15, 2017, 07:50:14 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 01:34:19 am

Fun moment from the evening's debate in the Netherlands: Geert Wilders calls Mohammed a pedophile on live TV. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s) Amazing, to be honest. If I were Dutch, I would definitely vote for his party.

Doubly ballsy when you consider that Dutch people who speak up against Islam have a history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) of being assassinated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)).

Best of luck to the Dutch, here's hoping they stand up for their country and its culture.

Yup. Pretty sure Wilders has constant police protection because of death threats and risk of assassination by immigrants and their descendants with barbaric iron-age beliefs.

I hope that last bit is being said ironically or sarcastically......

It's also inaccurate, Islam arose in the early Medieval period, about 200 years after the fall of Rome, not the iron age, which would be the period that Rome ruled, roughly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:35:29 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:31:20 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:28:54 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 15, 2017, 07:50:14 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 01:34:19 am

Fun moment from the evening's debate in the Netherlands: Geert Wilders calls Mohammed a pedophile on live TV. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s) Amazing, to be honest. If I were Dutch, I would definitely vote for his party.

Doubly ballsy when you consider that Dutch people who speak up against Islam have a history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) of being assassinated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)).

Best of luck to the Dutch, here's hoping they stand up for their country and its culture.

Yup. Pretty sure Wilders has constant police protection because of death threats and risk of assassination by immigrants and their descendants with barbaric iron-age beliefs.

I hope that last bit is being said ironically or sarcastically......

Not at all. It's completely truthful.

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:31:20 am

It's also inaccurate, Islam arose in the early Medieval period, not the iron age, which would be the period that Rome ruled, roughly.

Nope. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age#Chronology)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:38:52 am

BTW, Christianity arose in the iron age too and the Catholic chuch haven't changed their beliefs much since then either. Want to call them barbaric?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:39:37 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:38:52 am

BTW, Christianity arose in the iron age too and the Catholic chuch haven't changed their beliefs much since then either. Want to call them barbaric?

Gladly, and I will gladly do so when the context demands. But we're not discussing them right now, and this smacks of whataboutism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:42:49 am

I was just noting the hypocrisy.

Also going offtopic into the Religion thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:43:12 am

What hypocrisy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:49:43 am

Also, while I agree that Islam does need to get over it's intolerance in general, some bad actors (or apples, if you will) don't represent the religion as a whole. Just like the Westboro Baptists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church) don't represent the whole of Christianity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:51:31 am

I'll feel that way more readily, when Westboro Baptists start assassinating people on the street in broad daylight and pinning a note to their chests with knives for insulting Jesus or whatever.

The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims in Europe are far and away more radical, and more dangerous, than Christians in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2017, 10:51:44 am

WB numbers 40 people and is yet to do a single jihad
I get the point but it's not really doing the argument service compared to Newrope

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 10:54:35 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:51:31 am

I'll feel that way more readily, when Westboro Baptists start assassinating people on the street in broad daylight and pinning a note to their chests with knives for insulting Jesus or whatever.

The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims in Europe are far and away more radical, and more dangerous, than Christians in Europe.

Yes, but my point is that a group of bad actors don't neccesarily represent the whole.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 15, 2017, 10:51:44 am

WB numbers 40 people and is yet to do a single jihad
I get the point but it's not really doing the argument service compared to Newrope

Yes. *shunts the discussion to the Religion thread*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:58:30 am

Over half of European Muslims hold views that would be counted as "radical" or "fundamentalist". I'd say that's more than just "a few bad actors". It seems a better statement would be, "A few good apples don't save a rotten bunch".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 15, 2017, 10:58:52 am

It is really funny when people make comparisons between radical islam and westboro baptists, though.

I mean, if all ISIS/Al Qaeda/Hamas/all the other 400 islamic terrorist groups did was protest funerals and do anti gay rallies and make hilarious videos and websites, the world would be a fairly nicer place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 11:03:12 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:58:30 am

Over half of European Muslims hold views that would be counted as "radical" or "fundamentalist". I'd say that's more than just "a few bad actors". It seems a better statement would be, "A few good apples don't save a rotten bunch".

Yeah, they're currently about as radical and fundamentalist as the Catholic church was in Medieval Europe, Spanish Inquisition and all that. Which is why it seems like Islam is in need of it's own version of the Reformation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 11:04:46 am

Agreed. So they can come to civilized countries when they do that. Shouldn't be more than a few centuries, one hopes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 11:08:41 am

One thing that would help is to get the MidEast out of the metaphorical hole that they're in. Not advocating going in and making them protectorates or anything like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 15, 2017, 11:10:54 am

Its also pretty funny when people mention something that happened during the medieval age to justify what radical islam is doing today.

All while conveniently forgetting that the ottoman empire was a thing less than 2 centuries ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 15, 2017, 11:47:04 am

Anyhow, back to the subject of politics.

Not much news about the election yet, but voter turnout appears to be exceptionally high so far. (the nice weather helps..)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 11:52:33 am

Quote from: TempAcc on March 15, 2017, 11:10:54 am

Its also pretty funny when people mention something that happened during the medieval age to justify what radical islam is doing today.

All while conveniently forgetting that the ottoman empire was a thing less than 2 centuries ago.

I don't think that anybody is trying to justify anything here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 15, 2017, 12:02:25 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 15, 2017, 11:59:36 am

I'd say many are trying to justify inaction (or, at best, appeasement) in the face of a serious threat.

Have European armies stopped bombing ISIS? I haven't checked, but if they haven't, then there's no "appeasement" or "inaction" going on here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 15, 2017, 12:04:49 pm

Threats are easy to deal with when they're far away on some god forsaken land. Domestic threats are harder and far more politically taxing to deal with, and far more likely to be ignored so as to not harm a narrative. Hello hello, Sweden, land of jihadists getting social aid and rape capital of the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 15, 2017, 12:12:42 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 15, 2017, 11:59:36 am

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 11:52:33 am

Quote from: TempAcc on March 15, 2017, 11:10:54 am

Its also pretty funny when people mention something that happened during the medieval age to justify what radical islam is doing today.

All while conveniently forgetting that the ottoman empire was a thing less than 2 centuries ago.

I don't think that anybody is trying to justify anything here.

I'd say many are trying to justify inaction (or, at best, appeasement) in the face of a serious threat.

Quote from: Bralbaard on March 15, 2017, 11:47:04 am

Anyhow, back to the subject of politics.

Not much news about the election yet, but voter turnout appears to be exceptionally high so far. (the nice weather helps..)

Glad to hear it. Out of interest, what's the state of things RE voter ID in the Netherlands?

Everyone eligible is automatically registered and gets their voting pass. All you need is any form of official ID that is less than 5 years overdue.

Why this isn't the case in the rest of the world is completely beyond me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 15, 2017, 03:05:36 pm

Exit polls are in:

http://nos.nl/artikel/2163343-exitpoll-vvd-veruit-de-grootste-partij.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 15, 2017, 03:10:23 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2017, 09:35:48 am

If they send Wilders to the wilderness I swear I'm paying a round tonight.

Looks like we have free drinks. If this holds Wilders did a lot worse than expected.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 15, 2017, 03:21:02 pm

Quote from: Bralbaard on March 15, 2017, 03:10:23 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 15, 2017, 09:35:48 am

If they send Wilders to the wilderness I swear I'm paying a round tonight.

Looks like we have free drinks. If this holds Wilders did a lot worse than expected.

Probably thanks to a massive 81% turnout.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 15, 2017, 03:34:56 pm

VVD smallest winner in history, with 21% of the votes.

At least 4 parties are needed to form a coalition.

so, uh VVD, D66, CDA and something else to fill up the remaining 7 seats needed?


Also that Erdogan lover Kuzu with his DENK party got 3 seats according to the exit polls.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 03:40:28 pm

Why not coalition with PVV? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 15, 2017, 03:44:58 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 11:03:12 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:58:30 am

Over half of European Muslims hold views that would be counted as "radical" or "fundamentalist". I'd say that's more than just "a few bad actors". It seems a better statement would be, "A few good apples don't save a rotten bunch".

Yeah, they're currently about as radical and fundamentalist as the Catholic church was in Medieval Europe, Spanish Inquisition and all that. Which is why it seems like Islam is in need of it's own version of the Reformation.

You're working under the mistaken pretence of the reformation resulting in less fanaticism rather than more (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus#Imprisonment_and_execution)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on March 15, 2017, 04:03:58 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 03:40:28 pm

Why not coalition with PVV? :P

VVD has said multiple times they would not even consider working together with the PVV.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wobbly on March 15, 2017, 04:12:33 pm

Good to see the dutch still retain some sanity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on March 15, 2017, 04:14:41 pm

Quote from: wobbly on March 15, 2017, 04:12:33 pm

Good to see the dutch still retain some sanity

Only a little.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wobbly on March 15, 2017, 04:17:14 pm

You take what you can get these days

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 15, 2017, 04:58:16 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 15, 2017, 03:44:58 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 11:03:12 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 10:58:30 am

Over half of European Muslims hold views that would be counted as "radical" or "fundamentalist". I'd say that's more than just "a few bad actors". It seems a better statement would be, "A few good apples don't save a rotten bunch".

Yeah, they're currently about as radical and fundamentalist as the Catholic church was in Medieval Europe, Spanish Inquisition and all that. Which is why it seems like Islam is in need of it's own version of the Reformation.

You're working under the mistaken pretence of the reformation resulting in less fanaticism rather than more (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus#Imprisonment_and_execution)

I was thinking the same. The cultural phenomena to thank for secularism in the west today is the Enlightenment, not Reformation. Reformed churches wasn't exactly less totalitarian or zealous than medieval Catholicism, that's why so many of those freereligious congregations had to flee to the Americas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 06:37:34 pm

Quote from: Lord_lemonpie on March 15, 2017, 04:03:58 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 03:40:28 pm

Why not coalition with PVV? :P

VVD has said multiple times they would not even consider working together with the PVV.

I've heard that none of the other groups want to form a coalition with PVV (Geert Wilders group).

Also, if Geert Wilders only wants memberships to be him only, then how does the party still have other politicians in it? Sounds like the guy wants to be a one-man party, but still allows others to run on the platform? Kind of contradictory and/or confusing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Alastar on March 15, 2017, 07:05:13 pm

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same god, mostly the same tradition. Same religion really.
Whatever improbable things one believes in (and I'm including secular ones) doesn't make one civilised or barbaric. Among other things, how one deals with deeply held beliefs and those who disagree does.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:03:17 pm

Quote from: Alastar on March 15, 2017, 07:05:13 pm

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same god, mostly the same tradition. Same religion really.
Whatever improbable things one believes in (and I'm including secular ones) doesn't make one civilised or barbaric. Among other things, how one deals with deeply held beliefs and those who disagree does.

I disagree. Believing people should be killed for apostasy is barbaric. Believing women should be subjugated by men is barbaric. Believing that any one who depicts your prophet should be killed is barbaric.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 15, 2017, 08:15:09 pm

Scrutiny at 50%

Quote

VVD-ALDE: 21.5%
PVV-ENF 13%
CDA-EPP 12.5%
D66-ALDE 11.9%
GL-G/EFA 9.3%
SP-LEFT 9.3%

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:20:10 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Those polls in Europe would only poll those IN Europe, you'd have to get polls of Muslims from MANY different countries to get a real picture of it.

Also, this needs to be bulldozed into the religion thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:27:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:20:10 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Those polls in Europe would only poll those IN Europe, you'd have to get polls of Muslims from MANY different countries to get a real picture of it.

Also, this needs to be bulldozed into the religion thread.

Since we're talking about Muslims in Europe, I'm not really sure how relevant those of Muslims outside Europe would be, unless they're from a country that has a lot of people going to europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:29:07 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:27:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:20:10 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Those polls in Europe would only poll those IN Europe, you'd have to get polls of Muslims from MANY different countries to get a real picture of it.

Also, this needs to be bulldozed into the religion thread.

Since we're talking about Muslims in Europe, I'm not really sure how relevant those of Muslims outside Europe would be, unless they're from a country that has a lot of people going to europe.

All I'm saying is that a poll of Muslims in Europe only gives opinions of those in Europe. If you want a whole picture, you should poll from all over the world. And I mean in addition to the Middle East, Muslims don't ONLY live in the Middle Eeast ya know.

Take it this way, if you do a poll of Christians in Europe, does that make it representative of ALL Christians?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 09:09:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:29:07 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:27:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:20:10 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Those polls in Europe would only poll those IN Europe, you'd have to get polls of Muslims from MANY different countries to get a real picture of it.

Also, this needs to be bulldozed into the religion thread.

Since we're talking about Muslims in Europe, I'm not really sure how relevant those of Muslims outside Europe would be, unless they're from a country that has a lot of people going to europe.

All I'm saying is that a poll of Muslims in Europe only gives opinions of those in Europe. If you want a whole picture, you should poll from all over the world. And I mean in addition to the Middle East, Muslims don't ONLY live in the Middle Eeast ya know.

Take it this way, if you do a poll of Christians in Europe, does that make it representative of ALL Christians?

It makes it representative of all Christians relevant to a discussion about Europe.

Oh, and here's a source for my earlier claim about fundamentalist beliefs being a majority among Muslims in Europe: link (https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 16, 2017, 02:05:10 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 09:09:22 pm

It makes it representative of all Christians relevant to a discussion about Europe.

Oh, and here's a source for my earlier claim about fundamentalist beliefs being a majority among Muslims in Europe: link (https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

And why is that a problem, anyway? If they start to try and overthrow the European laws in favor of Sharia, wouldn't it be very easy to deal with them until they stop?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 04:19:26 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 09:09:22 pm

Oh, and here's a source for my earlier claim about fundamentalist beliefs being a majority among Muslims in Europe: link (https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

That poll doesn't talk about those beliefs at all (at least not on the first few pages).

Anyway, yay! Wilders in the wilderness, sanity in the government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 16, 2017, 04:29:33 am

Didnt social democrats and the other government party together still lose like half of their seats?

I mean, the "anti-populist victory" here is that Wilders' didnt win as much as was feared, ainnit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 04:36:27 am

Quote from: Erkki on March 16, 2017, 04:29:33 am

Didnt social democrats and the other government party together still lose like half of their seats?

I mean, the "anti-populist victory" here is that Wilders' didnt win as much as was feared, ainnit?

After 2016, we'll take what we can. :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2017, 07:19:49 am

Elections sucked balls. Samo old neocon party that has been destroying our country for 30 years can still call dibs on government formation. Here's to another 4 years of fuck the less fortunate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2017, 07:38:20 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 16, 2017, 02:05:10 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 09:09:22 pm

It makes it representative of all Christians relevant to a discussion about Europe.

Oh, and here's a source for my earlier claim about fundamentalist beliefs being a majority among Muslims in Europe: link (https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

And why is that a problem, anyway? If they start to try and overthrow the European laws in favor of Sharia, wouldn't it be very easy to deal with them until they stop?

Short answer, no it wouldn't

When millions of people reject your rule of law then shit hits the fan very quickly, becoming somewhat difficult to deal with

Quote from: Alastar on March 15, 2017, 07:05:13 pm

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same god, mostly the same tradition. Same religion really.
Whatever improbable things one believes in (and I'm including secular ones) doesn't make one civilised or barbaric. Among other things, how one deals with deeply held beliefs and those who disagree does.

Not the same God, not the same traditions, not the same religion

The differences in doctrine and belief are pretty fundamental

Quote from: martinuzz on March 16, 2017, 07:19:49 am

Elections sucked balls. Samo old neocon party that has been destroying our country for 30 years can still call dibs on government formation. Here's to another 4 years of fuck the less fortunate.

I feel you, looking at the Netherlands you guys don't have many good choices left to make

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 07:51:56 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2017, 07:43:12 am

Quote from: Erkki on March 16, 2017, 04:29:33 am

Didnt social democrats and the other government party together still lose like half of their seats?

I mean, the "anti-populist victory" here is that Wilders' didnt win as much as was feared, ainnit?

Indeed. It's not quite the result I was hoping for, but with the current PM losing a bunch of seats and Wilders gaining five to edge into second place (just beating CDA and D66 according to the last result I saw), it's not terrible either. I'm surprised that Sheb would term the largest opposition party 'in the wilderness', but hey, whatever works for you.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 16, 2017, 07:19:49 am

Elections sucked balls. Samo old neocon party that has been destroying our country for 30 years can still call dibs on government formation. Here's to another 4 years of fuck the less fortunate.

I suppose that's one of the of the problems with having so many parties as opposed to a FPTP system or one more like the French one. It's hard to organize opposition to a 'Not calamitous but kinda shitty' ruling party. There are probably a whole bunch of people who didn't want Rutte to be PM anymore, but they split themselves between Geert, GL, D66, etc.

Not that I'm saying FPTP is a better system.

Well, yeah, not in the wilderness. But when you brace for the worse, pretty bad feels actually good. As for the Dutch, well, the issue is that Wilders has made himself toxic enough that no one wants to work with him, so the opposition is split between the PVV and the rest. The others could try a coalition. Having some sort of minimum share to get into parliament would help make coalitions easier though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 16, 2017, 07:57:43 am

Quote from: Alastar on March 15, 2017, 07:05:13 pm

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same god, mostly the same tradition. Same religion really.
Whatever improbable things one believes in (and I'm including secular ones) doesn't make one civilised or barbaric. Among other things, how one deals with deeply held beliefs and those who disagree does.

Sorry bruva, doesn't work that way. There's a huge ideological, historical and cultural abyss between the three, and a reductionistic and generalizing view of it doesn't get you anywhere, apart from being kinda just a lazy and feeble attempt at avoiding dealing with the issues at hand.

Its kinda like saying 3 different guys that happen to come from the same general region of the world are completely identical just because they came from the same general region.

Anyways, looks like there's no paradigm change for the nether regions just yet. Sad, but all things considered, it could've been worse?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 09:09:03 am

Depends wether you think saying mean stuff about long-dead historical figure is the one quality a leader need or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 16, 2017, 10:24:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 04:19:26 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 09:09:22 pm

Oh, and here's a source for my earlier claim about fundamentalist beliefs being a majority among Muslims in Europe: link (https://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread)

That poll doesn't talk about those beliefs at all (at least not on the first few pages).

Not those specific ones, but I never claimed my list was exhaustive. Also did you miss the PDF article (https://www.wzb.eu/sites/default/files/u6/koopmans_englisch_ed.pdf) embedded in the page?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on March 16, 2017, 12:20:04 pm

Quote from: Alastar on March 15, 2017, 07:05:13 pm

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... same god, mostly the same tradition. Same religion really.
Whatever improbable things one believes in (and I'm including secular ones) doesn't make one civilised or barbaric. Among other things, how one deals with deeply held beliefs and those who disagree does.

I feel like you're completely out of touch with reality. Regards, someone who's harassed by homophobic muslims on a nigh daily basis.

Quote from: smjjames on March 15, 2017, 08:20:10 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 15, 2017, 08:16:20 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 15, 2017, 08:10:49 pm

You mean to say that the majority of Muslims believe all of those things?

Yes, a majority of Muslims hold one or more of those beliefs. There are polls of Muslims in Europe that show it. Am typing on phone so I can't get the data right this moment.

Those polls in Europe would only poll those IN Europe, you'd have to get polls of Muslims from MANY different countries to get a real picture of it.

Also, this needs to be bulldozed into the religion thread.

I don't think muslims outside of Europe are less fundamentalist than those within.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 16, 2017, 12:28:04 pm

There's no religion thread. Unless you mean the railgun thread, the one in which we don't actualy discuss religion in, its actualy just a covert discussion on railguns so nobody can steal our data.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 16, 2017, 12:33:54 pm

Actualy, while I've seen threads locked and posts deleted due to discussions on politics, I don't really remember any case of discussions on religion ever reaching that point. Some people are just scared of putting it on the table for whatever reason, while discussions on politics blow up threads every now and then.

So ye, unless anyone can point me to specific events in which discussions on religion exploded, I don't see any reason to be afraid of the topic, even when it smacks into the polthreads, which is relevant, in this specific case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on March 16, 2017, 12:40:09 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2017, 12:29:26 pm

If Martinuzzz (or Toady, though I can't imagine why he would bother assuming no one ignores the thread OP) says take it to another thread, sure, but I'd say it's not really the place of others to start telling people to do so. YMMV though - it's just that most forums I've been on are understandably wary of backseat moderation.

For my part, given the current 'hot-button issues' in the EU, the discussion seems relevant. But regardless, it's the OP's call.

Seconding this, I think Islam and religion are an important aspect of modern day European politics, and should thus be discussed within the politics thread. Geert didn't get 20 seats for nothing.

However, others are also right in saying that x is barbaric or not should not happen here.

Let's make a dutch-style compromise and allow the discussion of religions in political context, not theological/ideological.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2017, 01:11:29 pm

Nah everything will be ok as long as we have bread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 16, 2017, 01:13:39 pm

Let loose the loaves of war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 16, 2017, 01:16:12 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 16, 2017, 07:43:12 am

Quote from: Erkki on March 16, 2017, 04:29:33 am

Didnt social democrats and the other government party together still lose like half of their seats?

I mean, the "anti-populist victory" here is that Wilders' didnt win as much as was feared, ainnit?

Indeed. It's not quite the result I was hoping for, but with the current PM losing a bunch of seats and Wilders gaining five to edge into second place (just beating CDA and D66 according to the last result I saw), it's not terrible either. I'm surprised that Sheb would term the largest opposition party 'in the wilderness', but hey, whatever works for you.

Wilders had much higher support in the past actually, in the previous election he lost a lot of votes, and with his current "victory" he does not even come close to reaching his old levels.

2010: 24 seats
2012: 15 seats
2017: 20 seats

Note that in 2010 Wilders was given actual role in goverment, he was part of a coalition with CDA and VVD in some kind of shady construct where the PVV did not have to carry full responsibilities.
Wilders made a mess of it, and actually chose to make the coalition collapse early leading to the elections of 2012.

He was rightfully punished by the electorate at that time, but alas, people have short memories.
The votes in the current election are divided over a lot of parties, while the PVV might turn out to be the second party in size, he now represents only 13% of the population. That does not translate into the great patriotic spring that we have been hearing so much about.

The main reason the other parties do not want to work with Wilders now is not a "cordonne sanitaire" but the fact that both experiments we had in the Netherlands in working with populists in our goverment have miserably failed due to their incompetence.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Wasn't there a reduction in the number of MP or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 16, 2017, 01:26:12 pm

No, his 2010 result represented 15,5% of the national vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 21, 2017, 11:12:58 am

https://www.facebook.com/william.frazer.58/videos/1485651734787246/

Apologies for the facebook source. A bit rough, but essentially correct. I didn't wish Martin dead in so far as I don't wish anyone dead, but I'll certainly not weep for him either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 21, 2017, 11:39:39 am

I have no idea who this 'Machine Gun Marty' is. Also sounds like the nickname of some gangster in the 1920s and 1930s.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 21, 2017, 11:46:01 am

Martin McGuinness. IRA terrorist leader cum Sinn Fein politician. Known to have personally performed and ordered murders, when the IRA was through he took to the ballot box where the media lapped up his "new leaf" spiel, presumably as a tactic to give Republicans a figure to follow towards peace.

Well, at least someone isn't worried about being politically correct: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4335196/Good-riddance-McGuinness-writes-Katie-Hopkins.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 02:16:14 pm

Daily Mail as a source. Oh my. I guess that means he was one of the good guys after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 21, 2017, 03:46:17 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 21, 2017, 03:21:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 02:16:14 pm

Daily Mail as a source. Oh my. I guess that means he was one of the good guys after all.

He was a terrorist and a child murderer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks). Whether you think his later efforts toward peace atone for that or not, it's not really something to be flippant about.

Quote from: Wikipedia

Three-year-old Johnathan Ball died at the scene. He had been in town with his babysitter, shopping for a Mother's Day card. The second victim, 12-year-old Tim Parry, was gravely wounded. He died on 25 March 1993 when doctors switched his life support machine off, having asked permission to do so from his family, after tests had found minimal brain activity.[6] Fifty-four other people were injured, four of them seriously.

oh so hes just like obama then he kills children with remote operated toys. lol anti-santa hehe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 04:40:07 pm

Hm, I wonder whether you guys feel quite as strongly about the jolly soldiers of the 1 Para. You know, the guys who massacred a bunch of unarmed civilians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)). Including a bunch of kids, in case that's important to you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 21, 2017, 04:53:07 pm

Legitimate military action, I imagine will be the call.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on March 21, 2017, 05:15:03 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 04:40:07 pm

Hm, I wonder whether you guys feel quite as strongly about the jolly soldiers of the 1 Para. You know, the guys who massacred a bunch of unarmed civilians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)). Including a bunch of kids, in case that's important to you.

That's whataboutism,  Helgo. We were talking about Martin McGuinness, not the Paras, if you hadn't noticed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scrdest on March 21, 2017, 05:17:15 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 21, 2017, 03:21:51 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 02:16:14 pm

Daily Mail as a source. Oh my. I guess that means he was one of the good guys after all.

He was a terrorist and a child murderer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks). Whether you think his later efforts toward peace atone for that or not, it's not really something to be flippant about.

Quote from: Wikipedia

Three-year-old Johnathan Ball died at the scene. He had been in town with his babysitter, shopping for a Mother's Day card. The second victim, 12-year-old Tim Parry, was gravely wounded. He died on 25 March 1993 when doctors switched his life support machine off, having asked permission to do so from his family, after tests had found minimal brain activity.[6] Fifty-four other people were injured, four of them seriously.

Oh come on now, 'child murderer' is transparently manipulative. I'm not going to try to defend terrorist bombings, but this kind of sophistry ticks me off.

There's a clear insinuation being made here that the situation was along the lines of 'Hey, a three-year-old. He looks Wrong Irish, I'll go shoot him' rather than the child being a random casualty.

And the beauty of this phrasing is how perfectly deniable the underlying insinuation is, isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 05:19:16 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on March 21, 2017, 05:15:03 pm

That's whataboutism,  Helgo. We were talking about Martin McGuinness, not the Paras, if you hadn't noticed.

It's not whataboutism, it's calling someone out on their partisanship. Funnily enough the partisanship here is directed against the actual partisans*. Go figure.



* For a given value of partisan. I don't mean to defend terrorists here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 21, 2017, 05:52:15 pm

Given the nature of insurgency and the difficulty of halting political violence, anything that successfully folds terrorists into a non-militant political group is laudable, regardless of the crimes committed by the insurgency or counter-insurgency.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 21, 2017, 06:31:34 pm

that doesn't mean they are not responsible for the deaths of innocents and they should never forget that. if you want to want forgiveness you better mean it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 21, 2017, 07:14:41 pm

Not to mention the public outcry such things cause. People aren't easy to forgive anyone they don't consider sufficiently punished, specially if they were never punished, which is one of the major reasons as to why the "peace treaty" with the FARC went to shit. People don't want the FARC to become some political party, they want them to be hunted and punished as the drug dealing kidnapper terrorists they are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on March 21, 2017, 07:56:25 pm

That's a fairly narrow analysis, I think. Look up South Africa's Peace and Reconciliation program - it's more about closure, not punishment in the sense of revenge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on March 21, 2017, 11:22:20 pm

Truth and Reconciliation Commission, not peace, but yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on March 21, 2017, 11:43:09 pm

It's no different that Columbia cutting a deal with FARC or Hirihito not being hung in 1948. People are willing to trade justice for peace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 21, 2017, 11:47:26 pm

As they should be. For an individual justice is more important, but for a society peace is almost always more important, and in the end terrorism is a societal problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 09:55:19 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan continues ranting and takes it a step further.

"If Europeans do not change their attitude towards Turkey, Europeans will no longer be able to safely walk the street, anywhere in the world"


Seems he wants to become the next IS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 10:02:33 am

British parliament session has been interrupted because there currently is a shootout going on outside it.
A parliamentary spokesman said at least two people were shot. A photographer has said he saw at least 12 victims lying at the nearby Westminster Bridge.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/schietpartij-bij-brits-parlement-vergadering-stopgezet~a4477617/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/schietpartij-bij-brits-parlement-vergadering-stopgezet~a4477617/)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-gunfire-reported-outside-houses-10076492 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-gunfire-reported-outside-houses-10076492)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39355940

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:13:50 am

British parliament session has been interrupted because there currently is a shootout going on outside it.

Shouldnt that be impossible, because there are almost no guns in UK?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 10:17:30 am

Almost no legal guns is not the same as almost no guns. Gun control became impossible with the Schengen borders

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:19:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 10:17:30 am

Almost no legal guns is not the same as almost no guns. Gun control became impossible with the Schengen borders

That was the point. I'm sure the british feel safe solely because they have so few guns.

Anyhow. Looks like someone drove into crowd and there was a simultaneous stabbing. And either the stabber or the car driver has been shot dead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:21:29 am

https://twitter.com/AuroreItalie/status/844566407551569920?s=09

Looks like the bridge is still full of bodies and wounded.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:27:22 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 10:23:02 am

Impressive, you trotted that old chestnut out before the bodies were even cold.

Not an old nut at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2017, 10:28:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 09:55:19 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan continues ranting and takes it a step further.

"If Europeans do not change their attitude towards Turkey, Europeans will no longer be able to safely walk the street, anywhere in the world"


Seems he wants to become the next IS.

Seems like he needs someone to punch him in the face.

Sounds more like he is threatening to open the metaphorical floodgates and let all of the refugees and ISIS flow through unimpeded.

How many metaphorical bridges does he still have left, I wonder.....

On the incident near the UK parliament, CNN is saying that the assaliant has been killed. Also, countdown to Trump doing some sort of gloating.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 10:30:05 am

Let's hope this is the only incident were in for today. It's the anniversary of the Brussels attacks today :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2017, 10:30:59 am

Yeee, UK PM May was actually pretty close (okay, 40 yards) to the incident. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/mar/22/peers-say-brexit-with-no-trade-deal-would-cause-signicicant-damage-to-service-sector-politics-live?page=with:block-58d29759e4b0a411e9ab75d5#block-58d29759e4b0a411e9ab75d5) She seems safe though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2017, 10:48:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2017, 09:55:19 am

Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan continues ranting and takes it a step further.

"If Europeans do not change their attitude towards Turkey, Europeans will no longer be able to safely walk the street, anywhere in the world"


Seems he wants to become the next IS.

Jokes on Erdogan, Europeans have a deathwish

Quote from: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:13:50 am

British parliament session has been interrupted because there currently is a shootout going on outside it.

Shouldnt that be impossible, because there are almost no guns in UK?

Fug

Just got text messages from me m8s saying police set up roadblocks all round. Dude attacked yellow jack police with a knife, got taken down by plain clothes police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39355505
Another Attacker drove his car through the pavement and pedestrians. Pleased the police got such a good handling of the situation though
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parliament-shooting-car-mows-down-10076616

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 22, 2017, 10:51:12 am

<tinfoil>
Ahem.

Radical muslim disguised as a radical Brexiteer disguised as a radical Europhile in a false flag attack as a last-ditch attempt to stop Brexit but fails therefore undermining Bremain, without drawing attention to ISIS seeking to repeat Brussels 2016 but in Britain.

Ordered by Trump, who is paid by Putin, who is manipulated by Brussels.

Not EU Brussels, but Belgium Brussels.

</tinfoil>

But seriously, this attack is just adding fuel to the fire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:58:52 am

I found a short video from the scene, taken from bus, and one can clearly hear 3 shots fired on it. The video seems to be shot immediately after the car incident on the bridge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 22, 2017, 11:05:21 am

Quote from: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 10:13:50 am

British parliament session has been interrupted because there currently is a shootout going on outside it.

Shouldnt that be impossible, because there are almost no guns in UK?

Is this supposed to be some pro guns lobby?

Anyway, the POLICE shot someone who stabbed an agent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 11:10:57 am

Nothing connecting the two attacks just yet, though its debatable. Maybe the asian guy just tried to take advantage of the confusion to stab a cop and failed miserably?

Anyways, it (so far) appears the shots came from the police who shot down the failed stabby guy. The people on the bridge were hurt/killed by the car drivey guy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 11:57:42 am

The stabber:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://static.ylilauta.org/files/79/orig/xwmld8zz/lontooj%C3%A4b%C3%A4.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 22, 2017, 12:04:50 pm

Apparently the guy who drove over people on the bridge and the stabber are the same guy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 12:10:30 pm

Any confirmed deaths? I can't seem to find any data on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 22, 2017, 12:14:43 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 12:10:30 pm

Any confirmed deaths? I can't seem to find any data on that.

Two now says the main media, of the other is the suspect himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on March 22, 2017, 12:33:56 pm

Anyone reminded of the Canadian Parliament shooting? Thankfully it seems the attacker in this case never had chance of making it that far into the House of Commons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 01:32:14 pm

Let the political derp commence. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html)

Blast from the past.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 22, 2017, 02:09:13 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on March 22, 2017, 12:33:56 pm

Anyone reminded of the Canadian Parliament shooting? Thankfully it seems the attacker in this case never had chance of making it that far into the House of Commons.

Well it's kinda hard to shoot up parliament without a gun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 02:17:42 pm

There's a blurb going around the internet about the attacker being one Abu Izzadeen, known radical islamic preacher.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 22, 2017, 04:29:51 pm

Well. The man certainly does look the part. It is a matter of 'was', now. Luckily and regrettably. There is one less, but also one less to interrogate. It is, as always, an uneven exchange.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 22, 2017, 04:58:54 pm

I have to say, I'm finding some of the flippancy used here distasteful.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 22, 2017, 05:30:04 pm

It is a matter of fatigue, in my case. I am simply unsure of what else to say. Wrapping it all up in the usual statements ("my thoughts are here and there, my heart goes out to there and here") does not truly contribute. It is, of course, a tragedy. Three people (at time of writing) has been cowardly and cruelly murdered, for no reason and for no good whatsoever. This attack and this attacker was particularly pathetic, but it does not mean that good people have not lost their lives.
I do understand that my brief contribution sounds awfully callous and uncaring, which is rather the mistake in hindsight. I do care. It is simply that by this point, it feels rather hollow and worn to telegraph that in the usual phrases, and I am not particularly good at thinking of new ways to do that.
I also believe that a certain degree of weariness is unavoidable, with these sort of events having become a fairly normal occurrence. Not that it means a complete lack of care and thought, but in the current climate, it is not entirely unreasonable to suspect that they might be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2017, 06:44:08 pm

Yeah, gotta to say the response in London was remarkably normal, besides Westminster effectively being on lockdown things returned back to normal in short order, I myself went on with dinner plans with my family and found amusingly the restaurants underbooked that day for obvious reasons. Did nearly have a heart attack when one of the waiters started shouting, fortunately only to announce someone's birthday. Besides usual fatigue, you've always got to consider that the main damage of terrorism is not the casualty number. I've often seen people say that since terrorism kills less than car crashes or heart disease it should be ignored, ignorant of this simple thing. You murder one person in a market and you shut that market down and you change the behaviour of everyone who was in that market, you murder a few people in a global city and you cause ripples throughout the world and such - thus, challenging the strength of the nation state and the global world. Things like today or in Paris where the state manifests its might and sorts everything out with admirable professionalism (the police did an amazing job on the ground ensuring things amongst the normal populace returned back to normal immediately while also neutralizing the threat immediately) is ultimately beneficial for everyone. It's when unprepared states or states losing their ability to govern like the middle east of germany that's when things look uglier and terrorism holds greater impact

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2017, 07:06:32 pm

Also local politics is a great way to see immediate change. Just cos parliamentary political change is slow as fuck and likely to result in little unless you create a national movement from whole cloth (tfw UKIP so many votes but no seats), local politics helps where things matter the most and reduce lines of communication to the smallest possible lines, between those with grievances and those with the ability to coordinate responses. I think what Greatorder was referring to was terrorism itself, which you really can't do much about, this is a war where the enemy live amongst us and wear our colours until they strike - thus the best we can do is prepare for their strikes, strike back, and avoid sowing discord amongst ourselves

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 07:54:13 pm

In short, dont be France?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 06:45:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 22, 2017, 05:38:13 pm

Well, as a Brit I have to say that the typical response I see to these things from Brits basically boils down to "Well, nothing the average person can do about it. May as well just get on with things."

We don't become overwhelmed by grief. Hell, there's usually a few dark humour jokes tossed around too.

There's plenty we can do, starting in the voting booths. We just allow ourselves to be mollified and talked around by those who are in power and want to stay there. They don't want to upset the apple cart; they want us to remain docile while they bleed us dry.

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 01:32:14 pm

Let the political derp commence. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html)

Blast from the past.

Fuck Sadiq Khan, and fuck Tony Blair too for good measure.

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 23, 2017, 09:15:12 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 06:45:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 22, 2017, 05:38:13 pm

Well, as a Brit I have to say that the typical response I see to these things from Brits basically boils down to "Well, nothing the average person can do about it. May as well just get on with things."

We don't become overwhelmed by grief. Hell, there's usually a few dark humour jokes tossed around too.

There's plenty we can do, starting in the voting booths. We just allow ourselves to be mollified and talked around by those who are in power and want to stay there. They don't want to upset the apple cart; they want us to remain docile while they bleed us dry.

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 01:32:14 pm

Let the political derp commence. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html)

Blast from the past.

Fuck Sadiq Khan, and fuck Tony Blair too for good measure.

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Coveneant means "Vote UKIP to keep the dangerous people out". Except that we're already leaving the EU by popular vote so I think he's actually having traumatic nightmares about if Brexit had failed instead of won and posting in his sleep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 09:56:45 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 23, 2017, 09:15:12 am

Coveneant means "Vote UKIP to keep the dangerous people out". Except that we're already leaving the EU by popular vote so I think he's actually having traumatic nightmares about if Brexit had failed instead of won and posting in his sleep.

Hey guys let's join the Newropian Union, no affiliations with any Unions

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 07:54:13 pm

In short, dont be France?

Don't know what you're talking about m8 diversity is our strength

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 08:53:30 pm

There's certainly more we could be doing. Sadly, we're hamstrung by fifth columnists, as seems to be the modern western way. Probably all Russia's fault, no doubt we'll be told.

Terrorists please stop killing people, you're making the right wing stronger

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Voting booths are for electing leaders, electing leaders who don't want open borders with North Africa, Eastern Yurop and Turkey is a good start. The alternative is just continue as normal with more people dying as usual. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 09:56:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Voting booths are for electing leaders, electing leaders who don't want open borders with North Africa, Eastern Yurop and Turkey is a good start. The alternative is just continue as normal with more people dying as usual. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.

Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.

Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 23, 2017, 10:17:11 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 08:53:30 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 07:54:13 pm

In short, dont be France?

There are a couple of ways to take this - which do you mean?

Sorry for being late bruva, went to sleep after I posted that.

The general basis comes from what I've seen happening in france in comparison to the UK. Now now, I'm not saying the UK is a safe walk in the park, but france has gone to hell in a handbasket, and a good part of it is due to the french government's complete inability to deal with it and the feeling of terror coursing through the french people. The french have given up tons of civil liberties for the sake of feeling a little bit safer, and yet attacks hit it like a truck (er, no pun intended) every single time. Wwhile the UK has its own shenaningas, I see the UK as dealing with the terror attacks in a way better fashion. People seem to react better to it, recognizing the problem but realizing that going full panic about it doesnt solve anything and in fact just plays into the terrorist's hands.

The general idea is, I think the UK will get out of this a whole lot better than france will.

Wether one likes Tommy Robinson or not, its hard to disagree with his arguments, specially when the counter arguments are just the same repetitive drivel about such things having nothing to do with islam because magic, coupled with the smug fake laughter of cowards who refuse to deal with the problem in front of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhrhLovaFs8)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:20:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 09:56:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Voting booths are for electing leaders, electing leaders who don't want open borders with North Africa, Eastern Yurop and Turkey is a good start. The alternative is just continue as normal with more people dying as usual. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.

Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.

Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

I'm starting to wonder at how bad some many of these supposedly terrorists are at their job. It's like the Orly dude, what kind of radical jihadi get drunk before his attack? It's starting to look like suicide by cop more than anything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:22:07 am

Quote from: TempAcc on March 23, 2017, 10:17:11 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 22, 2017, 08:53:30 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on March 22, 2017, 07:54:13 pm

In short, dont be France?

There are a couple of ways to take this - which do you mean?

Sorry for being late bruva, went to sleep after I posted that.

The general basis comes from what I've seen happening in france in comparison to the UK. Now now, I'm not saying the UK is a safe walk in the park, but france has gone to hell in a handbasket, and a good part of it is due to the french government's complete inability to deal with it and the feeling of terror coursing through the french people. The french have given up tons of civil liberties for the sake of feeling a little bit safer, and yet attacks hit it like a truck (er, no pun intended) every single time. Wwhile the UK has its own shenaningas, I see the UK as dealing with the terror attacks in a way better fashion. People seem to react better to it, recognizing the problem but realizing that going full panic about it doesnt solve anything and in fact just plays into the terrorist's hands.

The general idea is, I think the UK will get out of this a whole lot better than france will.

Wether one likes Tommy Robinson or not, its hard to disagree with his arguments, specially when the counter arguments are just the same repetitive drivel about such things having nothing to do with islam because magic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhrhLovaFs8)

Kind of sounds like you mean 'Don't be the US right after and up to some years after 9/11'. At least we didn't keep the 'state of emergency' up indefinetly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:24:01 am

Isn't it the case that the UK gave up relatively few civil liberties because they had so few to start with. :p More seriously, UK spy agencies got powers their contiental counterpart can only dream off, there you have your super net of cameras...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:32:05 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:20:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

I'm starting to wonder at how bad some many of these supposedly terrorists are at their job. It's like the Orly dude, what kind of radical jihadi get drunk before his attack? It's starting to look like suicide by cop more than anything else.

Neither the Politico link I had there earlier or the BBC link that I put in because it has more information, says anything about the driver being drunk. Yes, there is an 'unidentifiable liquid', but that could just be a bottle of water, or a bottle of piss for all we know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:53:24 am

No, I'm talking about another dude, that shot a policeman in France with a "pistolet à grenaille" (not sure the real name, basically a modified 9mm pistol shooting a cartridge full of tiny lead balls, mostly useless as a weapon) then tried to grab a rifle from a soldier in Orly and was shot. He apparently had 0.93 g/l of BAC.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 23, 2017, 11:44:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 09:56:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Voting booths are for electing leaders, electing leaders who don't want open borders with North Africa, Eastern Yurop and Turkey is a good start. The alternative is just continue as normal with more people dying as usual. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.

Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.

Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

It's a pretty well established thing that when it comes to terrorism second generation immigrants is the main problem. Stopping more immigrants from these regions means less people who grow up and become radicalized down the line. It keeps the problem from getting bigger.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 11:57:56 am

Quote from: scriver on March 23, 2017, 11:44:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 09:56:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 04:58:34 am

Pray, what can we do? Hunker down in bulletproof voting booths?

Voting booths are for electing leaders, electing leaders who don't want open borders with North Africa, Eastern Yurop and Turkey is a good start. The alternative is just continue as normal with more people dying as usual. That's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.

Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.

Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

It's a pretty well established thing that when it comes to terrorism second generation immigrants is the main problem. Stopping more immigrants from these regions means less people who grow up and become radicalized down the line. It keeps the problem from getting bigger.

Yes, but you still have to deal with the people already there, the guy was 50 something years old, which means, in theory, you'd still be dealing with the problems 50 years from now.

I get the logic of preventing immigrants from coming in, but if the source is second generation immigrants, why not deal with whatever is radicalizing those second generation immigrants? Stopping immigration won't stop them from becoming radicalized.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 23, 2017, 12:20:07 pm

There is no mutual exclusitivity between the two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 12:34:57 pm

I get what you're saying, but there are definetly ways to do it right and ways to do it wrong which would just make things worse.

Just don't go too far down the slippery slope, Europe.

*ahem*

Anyways...

http://www.politico.eu/article/erdogan-accuses-bulgaria-of-putting-pressure-on-turks/

Apparently Bulgaria expelled a Turkish citizen and blocked two others over concerns that Turkey would interfere in their Parliamentary elections this weekend because a Turkish minister had campaigned for a Bulgarian political party. Erdogan then responded with what looks like a condemnation of election interference attempts and at the same time, the usual spat that Erdogan has been having with Europe this past month or two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on March 23, 2017, 12:49:21 pm

• Immediate declaration of Article 5, based on Turkey's threat to Europe.
• Turkey is required to treat Turkey as directly threatening Turkey, as per NATO charter.
• Chaos.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 23, 2017, 12:54:14 pm

At this point, the slippery slope looks mighty attractive.

Quote from: Strife26 on March 23, 2017, 12:49:21 pm

• Immediate declaration of Article 5, based on Turkey's threat to Europe.
• Turkey is required to treat Turkey as directly threatening Turkey, as per NATO charter.
• Chaos.

Loyalty cascade tantrum spiral.
Nato: They say a Erdogan plots the Erdogan's death
Erdogan reveals himself as Erdogan, the muslim toothed demon of kebab!
The Erdogan strikes the Erdogan in the throat with the =leather shoe= and the severed erdogan sails off in an arc!
Erdogan: it is terrifying.
Britain: I must leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 12:56:24 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on March 23, 2017, 12:49:21 pm

• Immediate declaration of Article 5, based on Turkey's threat to Europe.
• Turkey is required to treat Turkey as directly threatening Turkey, as per NATO charter.
• Chaos.

I think that'd only happen if Turkey physically (or digitially) attacked an European state. It's been rhetoric and the burning of bridges so far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on March 23, 2017, 01:02:35 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 12:56:24 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on March 23, 2017, 12:49:21 pm

• Immediate declaration of Article 5, based on Turkey's threat to Europe.
• Turkey is required to treat Turkey as directly threatening Turkey, as per NATO charter.
• Chaos.

I think that'd only happen if Turkey physically (or digitially) attacked an European state. It's been rhetoric and the burning of bridges so far.

Probably, but the exact limits of Article 5 have never been tested. It's only been officially invoked once, and that was after September 11th.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 23, 2017, 03:01:11 pm

Quote

rushing head first into something without even thinking

Yeah, maybe the wise men should have thought first before letting over 1,5 million refugees into Europe in 2015. But no, we are obliged to help, we need diversity, we need young, fertile people to fix our demographics.

Good(although not even greatest) part of the issue of large, radicalizing minorities with downright barbaric, medieval cultures and beliefs in Europe would have been dealth with had either borders been kept closed or the Syrian war been forcefully put to end back in 2012 or 2013. IMHO.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 23, 2017, 03:14:06 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on March 23, 2017, 12:54:14 pm

Britain: I must leave.

Europe: It was inevitable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 23, 2017, 03:56:26 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 03:34:06 pm

Quote from: Erkki on March 23, 2017, 03:01:11 pm

Quote

rushing head first into something without even thinking

Yeah, maybe the wise men should have thought first before letting over 1,5 million refugees into Europe in 2015. But no, we are obliged to help, we need diversity, we need young, fertile people to fix our demographics.

Good(although not even greatest) part of the issue of large, radicalizing minorities with downright barbaric, medieval cultures and beliefs in Europe would have been dealth with had either borders been kept closed or the Syrian war been forcefully put to end back in 2012 or 2013. IMHO.

Except, as pointed out, a lot of terrorists are radicalised IN the country. The one in the UK was BORN in Kent, so that won't have been fixed by closing the border unless we decided to do so decades ago.

I can agree with the Syrian war, though. That's being dragged out like a bleeding carcass across a room.

Which is why I wanted to include the large part, not all. Some countries like UK already had large and already fairly radical muslim minorities, but some countries had their minorities' size doubled. Finland only received 32,000 "refugees" (almost all were male in their 20 and 30s), and despite most of them being housed centrally and about half of them have already left the country, we still had rapes on ethnically finnish women DOUBLED and percentage of non-finnish rape suspect percentage go down from about 50% to mere 23 %. And we had to take extra loans for over 1 billion to handle them in 2016 alone, on the top of a state budget that was already several billion deficit.

The emirate of Bahrain wants to build a "islamic centre" and a large mosque in Helsinki. Complete with bahraini imams, probably. If the course isnt changed we'll be getting all the fun UK, France, Sweden etc. already enjoy, just with a 10 year delay, and it is possible that soon the welfare state cannot be run anymore. I would not be surprised if we saw first jihadic/islamic terrorist attack this year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 05:59:40 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 05:28:34 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 02:33:31 pm

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:46:46 pm

I honestly understand your concerns, but we can't allow ourselves to be paralysed by fear of 'going too far', or we'd never do anything.

One reason why we're careful is that a little under a century ago, a certain someone decided that  he needed to do everything in his power to ensure the dominance of the his race.

Really? Who? Please tell me more about this. I have literally never heard about it.

Come on now, stop pretending to be dumb here.

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 05:28:34 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 02:33:31 pm

Also, you think that with the current situation our lives, culture and values will just vanish? The IRA did a way more effective job with their campaign of terrorism, and Britain, our values and our culture survived, and the British people are still around today.

The IRA never had thousands of people marching through the streets of our own capital holding banners that say 'Behead those who insult the IRA.' (http://www.wnd.com/files/2015/12/london-protest.jpg). Neither did the IRA infiltrate a large number of English primary schools in a conspiracy to institute 'IRA values', nor did they declare parts of London a Republican zone and then assault people (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/06/muslim-vigilantes-jailed-sharia-law-attacks-london) for, I don't know, speaking the Queen's English inside it.

Aside from terrorism being involved, the two situations are very, very different. Let's not kid ourselves; we have a rapidly growing Muslim population - it's nearly doubled in the past decade - a large segment of which is not integrating into British culture and society to a degree that's anywhere near good enough. Did you know more British Muslims have gone to join ISIS than have joined the British Army? Or that a survey conducted by ICM Research (conducted for the Channel 4 documentary, "What British Muslims Really Think," aired April 13 of last year) found that only 34% of British Muslims would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists, and that 52% believe homosexuality should be illegal?

I worry about those things much more than the death toll we've faced, and will continue to face, from terrorists' bombs and knives and guns. The loss of life is tragic, yes, but overall it is most significant as a symbol and a warning. A symbol of what we will apparently accept, what we will submit ourselves to and bury our heads in the sand against rather than address openly and without fear. And a warning of the future.

I hope, more than anything, that we can stop hiding and ignoring things and pretending that despicable events like Rotherham* and the myriad other Asian sex gang cases (Telford, Rochdale, Derby, Peterborough, Leicester, Oxford, Keighley, and more) and all the other problems that this lack of integration is causing are all isolated incidents. I hope we can steel ourselves and say 'Right, things aren't pretty, we need to actually deal with this now'. I hope that the government takes sensible, proportionate action to address the problem before it becomes a crisis, though god knows there's already been a terrible cost to it already.

Because if they don't address it, well... like the Roman, I seem to see the river Tiber foaming with much blood.

Well, I hope we don't see the river Thames foam with blood.

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 05:28:34 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Did you know one victim of the whole Rotherham scandal was gang-raped by three different Asian 'gangs' in one day? I was reading sections of the report, and saw a bit saying how after being attacked, this young girl was walking home, obviously distraught and in bits. A taxi pulled up, one passenger inside, and they start talking to the girl 'Wow, are you alright? You look awful, obviously something bad's happened to you, poor thing, get inside, let us get you home'.

Instead of driving her home, they took her to a block of flats, where she was locked in a room for hours and suffered another horrendous gang-rape.

I don't know the details about gang-rape #3. Sometimes I just don't have the stomach to read any more.

I dare you to tell me that there has been a sufficient response to these events.

While I agree with your earlier assertation that comparing the IRA and The Troubles with things now is by far not even an equivalent situation, that's a fallacious question there. It's fallacious because, well, 'sufficient response' would vary from person to person and you don't even tell whether they had been charged and jailed yet.

Obviously a basic 'sufficient response' would be "try the rapers like the criminals that they are and put them away, and possibly deport them", but I don't know anything about the case other than what you've said.

Also, humans are terrible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 06:55:31 pm

I shall be uncharacteristically plain in reguards to that sort of offender; cut their cock-and-balls off. They cannot be trusted to have them. The procedure can no doubt be done, with advanced modern medicine, and is a much more reliable disarmament (in all senses of the word) than a few months of mandatory day-care with friends and drugs, at worst.

I suppose it illustrates how the individual scale of 'sufficient response' can shift. But, I also do believe that drastic time demands drastic measures. It is either very severe punishments like that, or life-long deportation, that could help now that such behaviour has begun to become normalised. Of course, on the matter of deportation, there is the discussion of how to approach a second generation immigrant, hiding behind a given citizenship. It is particularly urgent in regards to recent events.

It has dawned on me that the state of the world is at the point where I think gelding should be used to restore order. This suggestion does not say many flattering things about me. And yet, I cannot tear myself away from supporting that idea. If this is where we are, and if that is what must be done to lay down the law, then so be it.
Jolly, jolly times, aren't they?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 07:02:55 pm

The problem here is that doing that to 'restore order' would involve doing it to hundreds, if not thousands of people, which would run smack into ethical issues of forced sterilization. Besides, it won't stop people from continuing their behavior if they so chose to, you might as well lobotomize people. You probably should ask yourself, if you cut your balls off, would that change your behavior?, maybe a little bit, but doesn't stop you from willfully doing something if you so chose to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 07:45:22 pm

Yes, but I imagined the whole package being removed; the offender effectively being Ken-ified. More than merely a castration. It is not guarantee, but I imagine that such a dire punishment waiting for repeat offenders might have some effect. It would, or ought to be, rather the deterrant, as well as a message. I understand that it is a rather knotty issue of forced sterilisation, but since the offender would have to qualify himself by deliberate actions, it is a rather different thing to, say, forced sterilisation in the service of eugenics. Of course, the statistics of executed penal Ken-procedures would no doubt become uncomfortable at some point, but since it would reflect individual choices and actions, not much can be done about it.

Now, lobotomy is an opportunity I have not thought of, actually. Perhaps it would be better, particularly for severe cases that are unrepentant, and that will do harm again if given half a chance. It would likely be a more simple procedure, as well. It does lack the threatening loud-and-clear nature of saying "don't try it, sonnyboy, or we'll cut yer cock-n-bollocks off", however.

As for Covenant: I do agree, I'd sooner have the guillotine back than my scissor-scheme. Or, dare we dream, perhaps both? Certain individuals would likely be better disposed off as a whole, rather than bit by bit, but I believe that being prepared to take someone's privates away when they make it very clear they have no intention to behave would send an appropriate message, and an appropriate response.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 07:49:48 pm

I need to stop giving you ideas don't I? lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 07:49:48 pm

I need to stop giving you ideas don't I? lol.

Well, true, it would likely be best. Still, where I made Emperor of Europe, I would like you to be in my council of advisors.

Citizen of Yurp! Cast your lot with Emperor Silverthrone! _{It is not as if it would be worse...}

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 07:51:41 pm

Not a fan of the lobotomy idea - don't particularly want my tax money going toward paying for drooling rapists to be babysat all day.

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 07:45:22 pm

As for Covenant: I do agree, I'd sooner have the guillotine back

Mme Guillotine, she thirsts.

That is also true, I do not quite know how 'precise' a lobotomy could be. If they could be made harmless and witless, without being reduced too far as to become vegetables that cannot do more basic tasks. Perhaps it could be an idea for the future, if technology advances to the degree that a computer could interface with a warm body, and make it useful. Perhaps as a form of bio-robot. Rather intriguing idea, I must say... But I should probably speculate about it on my own time.

Still, for Mme Guillotine. She is still the best solution available, for many cases. Very dependable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 08:12:17 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 07:49:48 pm

I need to stop giving you ideas don't I? lol.

Well, true, it would likely be best. Still, where I made Emperor of Europe, I would like you to be in my council of advisors.

Citizen of Yurp! Cast your lot with Emperor Silverthrone! _{It is not as if it would be worse...}

I'm American though. :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 23, 2017, 08:17:01 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

-snip-

You can pretty much have people be able to perform basic tasks, or you can have them lobotomized. As I recall the procedure is considered fundamentally flawed by pretty much everyone with even a shred of credibility.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:22:39 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 08:12:17 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 07:49:48 pm

I need to stop giving you ideas don't I? lol.

Well, true, it would likely be best. Still, where I made Emperor of Europe, I would like you to be in my council of advisors.

Citizen of Yurp! Cast your lot with Emperor Silverthrone! _{It is not as if it would be worse...}

I'm American though. :)

Why, excellent! An American perspective would be very useful. American advisors tend to be exported quite generously, but I would like the opportunity to choose them, myself.

You will also be well-clear of the blast radius, if my reign goes particularly poor.

Quote from: Baffler on March 23, 2017, 08:17:01 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

-snip-

You can pretty much have people be able to perform basic tasks, or you can have them lobotomized. As I recall the procedure is considered fundamentally flawed by pretty much everyone with even a shred of credibility.

Ah, I see. Not a very useful procedure for penal labour purposes, then. I would call it a shame, but it is probably for the best that such a scheme would not work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 08:45:22 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 11:22:01 am

Well, Fox is doing its usual. Apparently someone on there claimed that London was utterly shut down by the attack, which, as pointed out, is anything BUT the truth.

Aye, the only thing that was shut down was access to Westminster station from street level, that was just to help with police investigation after the attack. Entirety of the city was going on pretty much as is, honestly priceless hearing people moan that terrorists have mildly disrupted their travel plans

Police really did a good job this time around. Shame one of them died doing his duty

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:24:01 am

Isn't it the case that the UK gave up relatively few civil liberties because they had so few to start with. :p More seriously, UK spy agencies got powers their contiental counterpart can only dream off, there you have your super net of cameras...

It is interesting reading of the birth of conservatism amidst the enlightenment; the liberal wanted the complete freedom and total liberty of the individual (in so far as was possible within legal and moral justifications), the conservative wanted the complete freedom and total liberty within the boundaries of continuous and strong institutions. Obviously the conservatives do not offer complete freedom, but they noticed then something curious - when people were given total freedom, they had a habit of joining apocalyptic religious cults or grow rather fond of the guillotine. Lacking any guidance with which to decide how to use their freedom, they would seek their own hierarchy, their own structure, and even if this meant going to war with society - they would live as they believed God had commanded. 200 years later and I find these lessons have become more relevant than ever, God help the European Nations who have spent the last decades doing all in their best power to dismantle every institution that made their states strong. Paradoxically, they will end up with less liberty than those who prepared - while the UK was preparing for attacks, the European Union and her citizens were denying that jihadis even existed in Europe. It's not going to be a pretty future to be sure, but I always say you're never too late for damage control, to that end I am still optimistic. Currently they lack the resources and conditions to embark on a campaign within Europe thus the situation is still salvageable

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 02:33:31 pm

One reason why we're careful is that a little under a century ago, a certain someone decided that  he needed to do everything in his power to ensure the dominance of the his race.

Well drats, there goes my plans of solving terrorism by invading Russia and exterminating the slavs

Basically I fear that the longer liberals dilly dally the more reasonable actual extremists are going to seem to all communities in Europe - Islamic, Communist and Fascist

Quote from: greatorder on March 23, 2017, 02:33:31 pm

Also, you think that with the current situation our lives, culture and values will just vanish? The IRA did a way more effective job with their campaign of terrorism, and Britain, our values and our culture survived, and the British people are still around today.

Oh gods, I doubt it'll be as bad as IRA. You've got to consider that the British Empire lost to the insurgency in Ireland, their goal was independence, not the destruction of our culture - now we have a foe that seeks extermination and conquest wherever it goes. Just look at the job they've done in the middle east, ancient peoples are extinct now. They survived Romans, Greeks, Persians, Caliphates, Mongols, Turks, French, British, Americans, finally undone by international jihad. It's set a pretty awful precedent, that if you allow yourself to become a minority in your own lands, the international world is going to look on with indifference if the majority decides to exterminate you

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 12:34:57 pm

Apparently Bulgaria expelled a Turkish citizen and blocked two others over concerns that Turkey would interfere in their Parliamentary elections this weekend because a Turkish minister had campaigned for a Bulgarian political party. Erdogan then responded with what looks like a condemnation of election interference attempts and at the same time, the usual spat that Erdogan has been having with Europe this past month or two.

I'm intrigued what Erdogan's end goal is, and why he has been assuming all the airs of a Presidential Dictator waging war against Europe. I am guessing it is a result of Erdogan taking a mile for every inch the EU gave him

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 06:55:31 pm

I shall be uncharacteristically plain in reguards to that sort of offender; cut their cock-and-balls off. They cannot be trusted to have them. The procedure can no doubt be done, with advanced modern medicine, and is a much more reliable disarmament (in all senses of the word) than a few months of mandatory day-care with friends and drugs, at worst.

Gods that sounds like an awful idea, it's cruel and unusual punishment for no gain. What advantage does it give, whilst reducing the state to the level of a Byzantine or Ottoman despot, handing out castrations left right and centre? This is not a power that should ever be possessed by the state, except perhaps in an emergency multiplication of the human population that is simply out of this world. Even so, we are nowhere near that point.

The only way this could seem reasonable is under the notion of deterrence. One would not force girls into sex slavery if they feared castration by the state. The important thing to consider however, is that these gangs had no fear of the justice system, not for lenient punishment - but because they had no fear of police, politician or journalist. A decade went by with politicians and journalists who investigated the crimes being investigated for hate crimes while politicians and journalists brushed this under the rug because they didn't want to have public opinion turn against their multicultural project. Thus the gangs got away, and top lel police even destroyed evidence in the UK - god we already know how the continentals tried it, it seems the continental state apparatus has been successful in covering up a great deal already. The problem is the leadership, not the law. When the police police, the judges judge, reporters report, politicians don't do anything too stupid, then civil society functions smoothly.

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 06:55:31 pm

I suppose it illustrates how the individual scale of 'sufficient response' can shift. But, I also do believe that drastic time demands drastic measures. It is either very severe punishments like that, or life-long deportation, that could help now that such behaviour has begun to become normalised. Of course, on the matter of deportation, there is the discussion of how to approach a second generation immigrant, hiding behind a given citizenship. It is particularly urgent in regards to recent events.

Drastic times demand practical responses. Drastic measures made without thought have a tendency to do nothing, or worse, fuck things up greater. Such behaviour is already normalized amongst elite groups, but is morally unacceptable amongst most Europeans, thus there is no need for such a fucked up PR campaign. In regards to justice, life imprisonment or capital punishment for slavery would more than suffice, with additional money needed to ensure that any such individuals incarcerated were not in contact with the rest of the prison populace. I don't think deportation is any good measure in regards to violent or organized criminals, as there is a twofold risk of them becoming a plague upon their home country and of forging international links with their associates in their country of last call and their country of current residence. Europeans may not understand why they are paying for the food, water and safety of slavers and child torturers, but it is truly more economical to keep such persons under watch and key than to risk losing them abroad. Capital punishment solves that issue easily, however I am always concerned with executions of innocent men wrongly convicted - especially in such cases involving great passion and public pressure. Thus I only think capital punishment for re-offenders is an acceptable rule, as not only does it allow people their second chances, it also greatly reduces the risk of an innocent man being executed (if a man is wrongly convicted for a capital crime twice, he is needless to say, very unlucky).

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 06:55:31 pm

Jolly, jolly times, aren't they?

Honestly I believe if officials merely exercised the duties they are currently obligated to carry out things would never have gotten this bad and would remain fine. But dude money lmao

Quote from: TempAcc on March 23, 2017, 10:17:11 am

People seem to react better to it, recognizing the problem but realizing that going full panic about it doesnt solve anything and in fact just plays into the terrorist's hands.
The general idea is, I think the UK will get out of this a whole lot better than france will.
Wether one likes Tommy Robinson or not, its hard to disagree with his arguments, specially when the counter arguments are just the same repetitive drivel about such things having nothing to do with islam because magic, coupled with the smug fake laughter of cowards who refuse to deal with the problem in front of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhrhLovaFs8)

To be fair, France is in the schengen area and has been fucked even more by the EU than the UK has when it comes to progressive liberalism versus the nation state. Also in regards to Tommy Robinson, he's wrong, buying into the clash of civilizations narrative which if adopted as policy would start WWIII. Not sure if anyone would emerge from that alive tbh
But it is interesting that for as long as libs attack and deny anything is wrong, that everyone who tries to point this out is evil and ignorant, extremists are gonna seem reasonable. All the facebook pics and diversity is our strengths in the world cannot change that people are losing morale in the West >_>

Quote from: Sheb on March 23, 2017, 10:20:23 am

I'm starting to wonder at how bad some many of these supposedly terrorists are at their job. It's like the Orly dude, what kind of radical jihadi get drunk before his attack? It's starting to look like suicide by cop more than anything else.

There's five main terrorist roles that reach news often
-The lone wolf unplanned attack. Usually done by some ordinary enough bloke who pledges allegiance to a terrorist group, but otherwise has no military training.
-The planned attack. Done by veteran jihadis or those who have received training from jihadi officers, or are themselves defected military units.
-The returned gun. Trains other jihadis when they get home, thinks they are badman who have joined the biggest gang. Probably not wrong
-The specialist, recruits skilled jihadis who work in advanced support roles to do with spreading of media, logistics, medicine, finance etc., mostly from Uni groups
-The cleric, old guy who is getting Saudi money or working in a charity to link people up with on the ground  contacts in the ME

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.
Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.
Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

Not being ironic, in any sense of the word.
I don't understand your logic. Having an open border with the ME, NA and EE meant that returning jihadis from training camps or conflict zones in Africa and the Middle East could return home to radicalize impressionable young uns in their community. It's going to keep happening as long as that gate is open. In addition to the money from drug and human trafficking, not just from the ME and NA routes, Eastern Europe cannot at all be ignored in its role in supplying jihadis with weapons and drugs. Soviet and Russian surplus trading hands through black markets ends up in the hands of guess who? And of course, mass immigration's role itself cannot be ignored, when you can't control for crime, education and culture nor ties to extremism for the millions of young men you're inviting to replace your old fogeys, you're courting disaster.

Seriously I don't understand this logic at all, that because Europe has allowed the problem to grow so fiercely they now have domestic jihad fronts, they must allow the problem to grow even greater. This is like how they dealt with the migration crisis, they explicitly waited until it was out of control before they acted and tried to control the uncontrollable. It's frustrating really D:
This is what this kind of argument looks like to me:
"The only problem with regulating CO2 output is that lots of CO2 emissions are produced at home. Moreover, so much CO2 has been released, that we'll still be dealing with the consequences 50 years from now, therefore we should not bother, and allow CO2 emissions to increase exponentially."

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 08:09:45 pm

That is also true, I do not quite know how 'precise' a lobotomy could be. If they could be made harmless and witless, without being reduced too far as to become vegetables that cannot do more basic tasks. Perhaps it could be an idea for the future, if technology advances to the degree that a computer could interface with a warm body, and make it useful. Perhaps as a form of bio-robot. Rather intriguing idea, I must say... But I should probably speculate about it on my own time.
Still, for Mme Guillotine. She is still the best solution available, for many cases. Very dependable.

Oi, the Imperium of Man is not a model to emulate willingly. If we can avoid Grimdark, we will avoid Grimdark. Lobotomised servitors is much too much grimdark to consider, and easily violates a great deal basic dignities we afford to all men, criminal and innocent, cruel and kind alike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 09:04:29 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 08:45:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 10:13:04 am

The only problem with the idea of blocking out people from North Africa, Turkey, and the MidEast (dunno if you're singling out Eastern Europe seriously or being ironic in the British way, going with Britishly ironic) is that the guy was born in the UK (http://www.politico.eu/article/theresa-may-tells-uk-parliament-our-values-will-prevail/). There is little information on what exactly the background of the person is though.
Basically, keeping people out does nothing to stop those that were radicalized on home soil.
Also, it appears that another person in Antwerp tried to do a terror attack but failed. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39369202)

Not being ironic, in any sense of the word.
I don't understand your logic. Having an open border with the ME, NA and EE meant that returning jihadis from training camps or conflict zones in Africa and the Middle East could return home to radicalize impressionable young uns in their community. It's going to keep happening as long as that gate is open. In addition to the money from drug and human trafficking, not just from the ME and NA routes, Eastern Europe cannot at all be ignored in its role in supplying jihadis with weapons and drugs. Soviet and Russian surplus trading hands through black markets ends up in the hands of guess who? And of course, mass immigration's role itself cannot be ignored, when you can't control for crime, education and culture nor ties to extremism for the millions of young men you're inviting to replace your old fogeys, you're courting disaster.

Seriously I don't understand this logic at all, that because Europe has allowed the problem to grow so fiercely they now have domestic jihad fronts, they must allow the problem to grow even greater. This is like how they dealt with the migration crisis, they explicitly waited until it was out of control before they acted and tried to control the uncontrollable. It's frustrating really D:
This is what this kind of argument looks like to me:
"The only problem with regulating CO2 output is that lots of CO2 emissions are produced at home. Moreover, so much CO2 has been released, that we'll still be dealing with the consequences 50 years from now, therefore we should not bother, and allow CO2 emissions to increase exponentially."

I meant regarding that specific situation and that specific person. There's still more to learn about his movements and activities obviously, but I was trying to say that it won't stop those that were radicalized on home soil. And admittedly, I was confused as to why you put Eastern Europe on that list, thought you were trying to do something British humor related with the Polish, but I understand now why you put Eastern Europe on that list.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 09:31:30 pm

(In response to LoudWhispers)

Oh. Oh, that is very true. Servitors, are they? I thought I remembered it from somewhere. _{I am not that kind of Emperor. Honest!}

You are probably right, on the whole, and particularly regarding my scissor-scheme. It would be rather too morbid a solution, when the problem could be better approached with tried and true bars, headsmen and leadership worthy of the name. The situation is screaming out for firmness; but Ken-ification might be, on the whole, too firm to consider, for the time being. Perhaps for a particularly rainy day, when old man Konstantin is the man with the plan, and on the whole, I do hope it does not come.
I do tend to forget that the strength and the skill to handle this, and to re-introduce the law, is not missing as much as it is not being used as it should, or given the elbow room that it would need.

The downstairs confiscation scheme would better wait in the drawer for the time being. If the modern nation-state does not re-assert itself, if old and universal values are indeed as dead as they have been left for, if the necessary strength and skill of society and its officials and servants is indeed gone, rather than bundled up and constricted, and if this sort of crude violence is the only tool that remains for the state, then perhaps.
You are right, however, it is better to start at the beginning, and improve and re-build the societal structure we do have. It will be quite the difficult raking, picking and planting to sort out that horrid mess, but it is certainly time and efforts spent better than on the knob-gathering regime I just dreamed up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 10:02:51 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 09:04:29 pm

I meant regarding that specific situation and that specific person.

Focusing on individuals is too myopic, focusing on an individual to decide policy on the whole even worse

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 09:04:29 pm

There's still more to learn about his movements and activities obviously, but I was trying to say that it won't stop those that were radicalized on home soil.

Baby steps. Europe has no easy solution to the troubles that awaits it, it must first do damage control and ensure that the states survive and that the rule of law does not collapse. Islamism is only one of the threats facing the European Nations, in particular jihadism is only a part of that threat - the trojan horse plots for example show where without a single shot fired, a greater victory was nearly achieved for islamism by subverting the education system. I should make it clearer, border control will not stop everyone the Europeans have already let in from killing them, but it will restrict their access to training camps, warzones, officers and so on, further restricting their ability to link and coordinate with their peers, further restrict their ability to raise funds, spread material or acquire weapons, and most important of all, put an end to the chaos caused by the great replacement. Getting rid of the salafist clerics, zealots and veteran jihadis isn't going to do much good if new ones just walk into Europe again and again, and getting rid of the troublesome leaders is not going to happen if the communities are both powerful enough and willing to oppose European authorities - can the Swedes for example, ever hope to rid themselves of jihadi leaders if their medics get grenades thrown at them for no reason? Imagine the reaction if their police showed up with a purpose

Quote from: smjjames on March 23, 2017, 09:04:29 pm

And admittedly, I was confused as to why you put Eastern Europe on that list, thought you were trying to do something British humor related with the Polish, but I understand now why you put Eastern Europe on that list.

Nah Poland's all right. Just look at it this way, Kalashnikovs remain the favourite weapon of the terrorist, for the simple reason of their plenty. If Balkan and Eastern European guns have been finding their way to Syria past naval patrols, I am certain that gangs are not the only people buying guns in the borderless Schengen area. It is so bad that jihadis can buy suicide vests and assault rifles in the capital of the European Union (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-attacks-how-belgium-became-hub-trade-kalashnikovs-european-black-market-1529739). The UK by comparison, which told the EU to politely Leave our borders alone, is considerably more capable of restricting the flow of both jihadis and materiel for attacks. I really feel that the Europeans should not hold the ability to holiday without applying for a visa above the ability to preserve the state, but at the end of the day it is up to their leaders to decide that for them

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 09:31:30 pm

Oh. Oh, that is very true. Servitors, are they? I thought I remembered it from somewhere. _{I am not that kind of Emperor. Honest!}

Sounds like something that kind of Emperor would say

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 09:31:30 pm

You are probably right, on the whole, and particularly regarding my scissor-scheme.

I imagine you would make a rather terrifying candidate for Home Secretary xD

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 09:31:30 pm

You are right, however, it is better to start at the beginning, and improve and re-build the societal structure we do have. It will be quite the difficult raking, picking and planting to sort out that horrid mess, but it is certainly time and efforts spent better than on the knob-gathering regime I just dreamed up.

Aye, jihadis have a considerably easier campaign given that we're building the sand castle and they're kicking it down, it is inevitably easier to destroy than construct. So I dunno, I guess we'll have to make the castle out of concrete and cast iron. It's gonna be difficult too, given that maintaining cohesion between cultural communities is so much more difficult than with individuals. I always see it as how any individual from any group can get along with most all individuals of any other group, but any one group cannot easily get along with any other group. The danger of miscommunications are heightened the larger and more different the groups

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 09:43:01 pm

Who is an extremist, though, and who decides that? I mean, am I an extremist? Is Tommy Robinson? Is Stacey Dooley (heh)? Leaving political partisanship out of the matter, is Trump?

Everyone is an extremist until they win
I recall Hitchens on Question Time, talking about how people called him extremist when in his better days his views were the mainstream. Same principle, what is considered extremist is a matter of acceptance, if it's on the extremes of acceptance it's extremist, if the overton window shifts then it can become mainstream again. Look at Syria for example, where the moderates only want to dominate the infidels, the extremists want to exterminate them - it's relative

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 09:43:01 pm

I condemn anyone advocating violence as the path to solve this problem - violence should, as ever, be the last resort. But I also condemn those relentlessly putting up strawmen, accusing people of wanting to commit genocide or reform the Nazi party when they've said nothing more 'extreme' than I've said in this last couple of pages.

Literally hitler tbh

Look at it this way, if there comes a point where people advocating for jihad against the infidels in the West stop being extremist and have gained mainstream political acceptance, it's over. An easily avoidable fate. In regards to literally hitlering of anyone who suggests that maybe we shouldn't abolish borders and laws and police and shit, the thing you've got to consider is consensus manufacturing - when you have consolidated media control, you can manufacture consensus where none exists. Just as German leadership opened their gates even wider when the majority of Germans thought their gov had gone too far, it's clear where the actual consensus lies. Looking at manufactured consensus, I think it's only useful in helping support an existing administration enforce policies that the majority of a populace opposes, but it will not defeat political rivals in elections. Besides the very literal meaning of extremists as being on the extremes, there is also the connotation of danger. This is the most nebulous of its meanings, I've seen it applied to everyone from civic nats to online shitposters and jihadis or tinfoil conspiracy theorists. I'm guessing "extremism" in that meaning has potentially become so broad as to become useless

It's one of those things where the term is really shitty defined but has serious consequences. Even "terrorism" or "terrorist" I find is not very useful nor very well defined. So I get what you mean. Everyone has their own definition, so it's unwise to lend too much legal authority to such subjective terms

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on March 24, 2017, 12:34:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 10:02:51 pm

Even "terrorism" or "terrorist" I find is not very useful nor very well defined. So I get what you mean. Everyone has their own definition, so it's unwise to lend too much legal authority to such subjective terms

Even? Terrorist is almost the archetypical example of a word overused! Consider, by contrast, insurgent. Insurgent is a very targetted word indeed. There's plenty of overlap with terrorist, to be sure, but no one flings around the word "insurgent" the way they do "terrorist". Terror is more useful, but it's like violence in that there are very different approaches to defining it, and they have very different implications.

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 09:43:01 pm

I condemn anyone advocating violence as the path to solve this problem - violence should, as ever, be the last resort.

When is violence ever not the last resort? It's quite rare indeed to meet someone not claiming that they were forced to do this, that they endured for so long, but that they've been pushed to this. It's more rhetoric than policy.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 10:02:51 pm

Baby steps. Europe has no easy solution to the troubles that awaits it, it must first do damage control and ensure that the states survive and that the rule of law does not collapse.

I'm quite curious: can you point to an example of a country overturned by terrorism in such a fashion? I'm studying the topic, so I'm interested. Terrorism tends to amass quite a death toll, but its record in overturning the state is poorer; the record of, I suppose what you might call "migrated terrorism" (as opposed to something like direct funding from a foreign state ala the CIA), is much worse. The only example that comes to mind is Afghanistan (and I'm thinking of the Soviet Afghanistan), not exactly a model to look for when thinking of the fall of a western state.

I'm just curious what your nightmare scenario is here. Even very successful terrorists who successfully seize and hold onto territory (like the Tamil Tigers, or ISIS) have a bad track-record at actually sealing the deal, and usually end up being beaten back eventually (the LTTE has been destroyed as an organization, and IS has seen better days). Even in Somalia, that great example of a failed state and a terrorist haven, has ultimately seen the territory held by Al-Shabab reduced extensively. And a lot of things have to go wrong before you end up like Somalia. States are pretty hardy things, much stronger and more resistant than human lives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:30:43 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Here in the Netherlands the Turkish government literally pays the imams of Turkish mosques.

I think forbidding foreign governments from sponsoring religious organisations is a very reasonable and necessary measure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 09:33:24 am

After years of ruckus and stalling, the German parliament finally approved of a new law that allows for highway tolls to be instated for the German Autobahn.
Belgium and France will likely need to invest millions into their road infrastructure once every single last transport company will rerout it's trucks to avoid German tolls.
I feel sorry for the German gas stations and highway schnitzel restaurants that will go bankrupt when their trucker customers stay away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2017, 09:38:42 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

He has a point. Such is the conundrum in Europe.

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:30:43 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Here in the Netherlands the Turkish government literally pays the imams of Turkish mosques.

I think forbidding foreign governments from sponsoring religious organisations is a very reasonable and necessary measure.

Separating church and state is a reasonable thing, yes. Though I'm sure the Catholic church would object to losing whatever little political power they have these days, if any. Although I don't think the Netherlands is particularily Catholic, thanks to the Reformation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 09:41:54 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:30:43 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Here in the Netherlands the Turkish government literally pays the imams of Turkish mosques.

I think forbidding foreign governments from sponsoring religious organisations is a very reasonable and necessary measure.

I doubt that law would pass parliament. Catholics still have quite a bit of influence, albeit dwindling. The north of the country might be protestant or reformed, the south is still a bastion of catholicism. Don't forget that most (if not all) priests of catholic churches are paid by a foreign government as well (the Vatican)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 24, 2017, 09:43:35 am

LW, a short while back you blasted Blair and Cameron for being warmongers, but now you're complaining about the lack of international response to IS' extermination of traditional small middle-eastern cultures? Should we be bombing them and storming Raqqa or should we not?

This is a genuinely contentious question that I'm interested to know your position on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:51:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 09:41:54 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:30:43 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Here in the Netherlands the Turkish government literally pays the imams of Turkish mosques.

I think forbidding foreign governments from sponsoring religious organisations is a very reasonable and necessary measure.

I doubt that law would pass parliament. Catholics still have quite a bit of influence, albeit dwindling. The north of the country might be protestant or reformed, the south is still a bastion of catholicism. Don't forget that most (if not all) priests of catholic churches are paid by a foreign government as well (the Vatican)

I don't see why the Vatican should be an exception to our separation of religion and state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 09:57:04 am

It shouldn't be, but a law still needs to pass parliament and senate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2017, 09:57:21 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:51:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 09:41:54 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 09:30:43 am

Quote from: Azzuro on March 24, 2017, 09:23:53 am

Quote from: Covenant on March 23, 2017, 12:21:41 pm

Look at Brussels' own mayor, saying that all their mosques are controlled by Salafists (http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-mayor-all-our-mosques-are-controlled-by-salafists/) (unsurprising when they're all funded by the Saudis, but of course no one wants to talk about that). So the answer isn't to sit there and whine about it, the answer is to shut those mosques down or to take firm control of them. In some countries, like Singapore, all mosques' Friday sermons are prepared and distributed by a government office in advance. I don't think that's an unreasonable step for our governments to take given that people are continually dying because of Islamic extremism.

That which you are implying is not true. While in Singapore, we do have a government statutory board (MUIS) that incorporates the office of the Mufti which publishes khutbah, the mosques do not literally have to follow them word-by-word, and several imams omit portions of it during prayers.

Furthermore, attempting to regulate Islam is going to backfire spectacularly in Europe at least. Europe does not have the same degree of social integration between Muslims and non-Muslims, and Muslims are under-represented in European governments and legislature. Governments imposing any sort of control over Islamic practice will be seen as anti-Islam oppression, and will merely provide more fodder for terrorist propaganda.

Here in the Netherlands the Turkish government literally pays the imams of Turkish mosques.

I think forbidding foreign governments from sponsoring religious organisations is a very reasonable and necessary measure.

I doubt that law would pass parliament. Catholics still have quite a bit of influence, albeit dwindling. The north of the country might be protestant or reformed, the south is still a bastion of catholicism. Don't forget that most (if not all) priests of catholic churches are paid by a foreign government as well (the Vatican)

I don't see why the Vatican should be an exception to our separation of religion and state.

The Vatican is technically a state and I believe other countries have embassies there? Depends on whether you argue that there is a distinction between The Vatican as a state and The Vatican as the seat of the Catholic church or not.

Besides, you were talking about the separation of church and state between the Netherlands and religion in general, not between The Vatican and the Catholic church.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:00:53 am

Disallowance of foreign funding does not really fall under seperation of church and state though. Put simple, seperation of church and state means that politicians don't dictate a preacher's sermon, and a preacher will not dictate his flock what to vote. Whomever pays the priest, or the church maintnance is not really part of that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 10:08:44 am

I don't think the Catholic Church's economy works anything as straightforward as "the Vatican paying priest's wages". My understanding is that they work as a series of semi-independent organizations (the exact degree of independence varies, with the Jesuits and the Opus Dei likely being the most autonomous).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:34:48 am

A Dutch judge has ruled that the Dutch court wants to hear Johan van Laarhoven and his wife as a witness in a case filed against the state. They also want to hear him as a suspect in a moneylaundry / drugs case.

Laarhoven's lawyer is quite pleased with the verdict, which is intended to save him and his wife from horrible circumstances in a Thai prison.

Van Laarhoven was a coffeeshop owner of a succesful franchise of coffeeshops in the south of the Netherlands called 'the Grass Company'. That's the Dutch kind of coffeeshop, the one that sells weed, not coffee and bagels (although some do sell those too).
After 31 years of running these legal business, he chose to retire in 2011 and move with his Thai wife to Thailand, to enjoy retirement.

However, once in Thailand, he was arrested, and convicted to 103 years in prison for laundring drug money. His wife was convicted to 9 years as an accomplice.
Even though he made his money legally in the Netherlands, with the sale of marijuana, the Thai didn't care it was legal in the Netherlands, but regarded his retirement savings as drug money. He and his wife have now already spent 2.5 years in a Thai prison, according to human rights organisations, in terrible circumstances.

Up until now, the Dutch government refused to interfere, stating the Dutch government does not interfere with another country's juridical system.
Van Laarhoven sued the Dutch state, accusing them of setting him up, and promtping the Thai authorities to investigate him. At first, the Dutch government denied, but documents surfaced that proved that the Dutch Justice Department had indeed asked the Thai authorities to look into van Laarhoven. It is in this case that the judge ruled today, that they want to hear van Laarhoven as a witness, in the Netherlands.

In another case he is a suspect. He is suspected of having more weed in stock in his coffeeshops than allowed. This is a red herring, and the government knows that. Every last coffeeshop always has too much in stock, because it is not logistically possible to keep to the limit of 200 grammes. You average Joe coffeeshop over here sells that in a few hours, a popular coffeeshop sells that in 30 minutes. He is also suspected of moneylaundry, related to the overstocking.

With this, the Dutch government will be forced by the Justice department to demand the Thai authorities extradite van Laarhoven to the Netherlands.
It is unsure though if the Thai will comply. They do not have to.

It's a terrible case. Imagine you're a supermarket owner in the US and you retire. You move with your Saudi wife to Saudi Arabia to enjoy retirement, and there you are arrested and sentenced to death because you sold pig meat back when you had your supermarket in the US. Basically the same thing as what happened to this former coffeeshop owner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 10:49:03 am

Indeed.

In all honesty I'm reluctant to travel, let alone move, anywhere outside W. Europe. You never know what will happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 24, 2017, 10:51:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:34:48 am

In another case he is a suspect. He is suspected of having more weed in stock in his coffeeshops than allowed. This is a red herring, and the government knows that. Every last coffeeshop always has too much in stock, because it is not logistically possible to keep to the limit of 200 grammes. You average Joe coffeeshop over here sells that in a few hours, a popular coffeeshop sells that in 30 minutes. He is also suspected of moneylaundry, related to the overstocking.

Protip: just because the crime is not prosecuted, doesn't mean it's legal. He's violated the law on legally selling drugs, and thus he's an illegal drug dealer who totally and completely deserves to rot in prison for destroying the fabric of society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on March 24, 2017, 10:53:10 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 10:49:03 am

Indeed.

In all honesty I'm reluctant to travel, let alone move, anywhere outside W. Europe. You never know what will happen.

The US, Canada, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia, and New Zealand are all fine too, you know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 11:09:09 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:00:53 am

Disallowance of foreign funding does not really fall under seperation of church and state though. Put simple, seperation of church and state means that politicians don't dictate a preacher's sermon, and a preacher will not dictate his flock what to vote. Whomever pays the priest, or the church maintnance is not really part of that.

Yet we do allow foreign governments to do just that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 11:11:11 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 24, 2017, 10:51:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:34:48 am

In another case he is a suspect. He is suspected of having more weed in stock in his coffeeshops than allowed. This is a red herring, and the government knows that. Every last coffeeshop always has too much in stock, because it is not logistically possible to keep to the limit of 200 grammes. You average Joe coffeeshop over here sells that in a few hours, a popular coffeeshop sells that in 30 minutes. He is also suspected of moneylaundry, related to the overstocking.

Protip: just because the crime is not prosecuted, doesn't mean it's legal. He's violated the law on legally selling drugs, and thus he's an illegal drug dealer who totally and completely deserves to rot in prison for destroying the fabric of society.

This is sarcasm right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 24, 2017, 11:42:57 am

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 11:11:11 am

Quote from: Sergarr on March 24, 2017, 10:51:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 24, 2017, 10:34:48 am

In another case he is a suspect. He is suspected of having more weed in stock in his coffeeshops than allowed. This is a red herring, and the government knows that. Every last coffeeshop always has too much in stock, because it is not logistically possible to keep to the limit of 200 grammes. You average Joe coffeeshop over here sells that in a few hours, a popular coffeeshop sells that in 30 minutes. He is also suspected of moneylaundry, related to the overstocking.

Protip: just because the crime is not prosecuted, doesn't mean it's legal. He's violated the law on legally selling drugs, and thus he's an illegal drug dealer who totally and completely deserves to rot in prison for destroying the fabric of society.

This is sarcasm right?

What's so suspect about my reasoning? Did he violate the law? Yes. Did he sell drugs? Yes. He's an illegal drug dealer. One of the worst kinds of people to ever exist on Earth. They profit on people's misery. Dutch authorities did a good job by informing the local Thai police of his malicious activities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 11:55:52 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on March 24, 2017, 10:53:10 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 10:49:03 am

Indeed.

In all honesty I'm reluctant to travel, let alone move, anywhere outside W. Europe. You never know what will happen.

The US

Eehh, not that much anymore, if the news are anything to go by.

Quote

 Canada, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia, and New Zealand are all fine too, you know.

Granted, all those are nice to visit.

Far away, though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 24, 2017, 12:01:17 pm

-wrong thread-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 24, 2017, 12:09:20 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 10:49:03 am

Indeed.

In all honesty I'm reluctant to travel, let alone move, anywhere outside W. Europe. You never know what will happen.

People still dont always lock their doors in many parts of the country here. I have all kinds of stuff on the porch visible to people walking by and in 21 years bicycles, car wheels, garden tools or furniture etc. are still to be stolen. I'm in a suburb, almost countryside and a good distance from what could be called a proper town, but still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 24, 2017, 12:16:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2017, 10:02:51 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on March 23, 2017, 09:31:30 pm

You are probably right, on the whole, and particularly regarding my scissor-scheme.

I imagine you would make a rather terrifying candidate for Home Secretary xD

Well, quite. They could frighten children with me. It would be a very heavy-handed (and no doubt very brief) rule. Bewildering, terrifying and terribly amusing.

As a special treat:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/Vz8agVi.png)

He is cruel, but he is... No, he is not particularly fair either, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 12:25:37 pm

Tbh the initial statement was concerning legal status/travel-residence annoyances, rather than outright crime stats. It was in regards to the prior post about the retired Dutch pot seller in Thailand. There's too much uncertainity involved.

I'm not too sure the legal status of foreign nationals in Australia is very good either, but I'm guessing that at worst you'd get deported elsewhere (which can be troublesome enough if you're intending to stay)


------

Pd: the London terrorist's original name was apparently Adrian Russell Ajao and wasnt particularily Middle Eastern.  He became a muslim and changed his name some years ago. Or so I just read.

Coincidentally I was remembering the case of John Walker Lindh this morning

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on March 24, 2017, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:30:51 pm

You know what's pissing me off about the attack?

It's not the attack itself, but how gun enthusiasts, seemingly without caring for the dead and injured, are using it to say how great it would be if everyone in Britain had a gun. Not only is there a lack of respect there, there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how if gun access was easy, it's far easier for people like the bastard to perform a mass shooting.

People use thing to make trite gun arguments. People respond to trite gun arguments with trite other gun arguments.

In other news, water wet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 24, 2017, 05:42:08 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:30:51 pm

You know what's pissing me off about the attack?

It's not the attack itself, but how gun enthusiasts, seemingly without caring for the dead and injured, are using it to say how great it would be if everyone in Britain had a gun. Not only is there a lack of respect there, there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how if gun access was easy, it's far easier for people like the bastard to perform a mass shooting.

The "everyone would be safe if.." hyperbole goes both ways. The gun discussion always happens immediately after something nasty happens. The gun discussion should not be had when everyones heated but thats when always does.

In late November / December 2015 the EU Commission had had its new proposal for firearms directive on the shelf for almost a full year. The very next Monday from the Paris attacks Juncker & CO including our own pretty boy Jyrki Katainen went for it and started the process to validate the directive.

Well, you can read their rationale and the directive proposal yourself, I think LW especially could be interested in it: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6218_en.htm

What they REALLY wanted to do was to disarm the whole Europe the way it has been done in UK except even more, for the sake of security, when the time would be right. And security sells at times of hystery.

Because apparently Finnish hunters and reservists are guilty of Jihadi terrorism in Paris. Me, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on March 24, 2017, 05:42:42 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:41:39 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on March 24, 2017, 05:34:13 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:30:51 pm

You know what's pissing me off about the attack?

It's not the attack itself, but how gun enthusiasts, seemingly without caring for the dead and injured, are using it to say how great it would be if everyone in Britain had a gun. Not only is there a lack of respect there, there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how if gun access was easy, it's far easier for people like the bastard to perform a mass shooting.

People use thing to make trite gun arguments. People respond to trite gun arguments with trite other gun arguments.

In other news, water wet.

Doesn't mean I can't get annoyed at the sheer callousness of it.

Fair enough

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 05:51:03 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:30:51 pm

You know what's pissing me off about the attack?

It's not the attack itself, but how gun enthusiasts, seemingly without caring for the dead and injured, are using it to say how great it would be if everyone in Britain had a gun. Not only is there a lack of respect there, there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how if gun access was easy, it's far easier for people like the bastard to perform a mass shooting.

In this case the gun laws prevented the attacker from having a gun.

And I think the fact that he did not have a gun may have saved a lot of lives.

So I have no idea how the gun lobby is spinning this to make it look like this guy being able to buy a gun would have been a good thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 24, 2017, 05:54:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:53:21 pm

Quote from: Antioch on March 24, 2017, 05:51:03 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 24, 2017, 05:30:51 pm

You know what's pissing me off about the attack?

It's not the attack itself, but how gun enthusiasts, seemingly without caring for the dead and injured, are using it to say how great it would be if everyone in Britain had a gun. Not only is there a lack of respect there, there's a fundamental misunderstanding of how if gun access was easy, it's far easier for people like the bastard to perform a mass shooting.

In this case the gun laws prevented the attacker from having a gun.

And I think the fact that he did not have a gun may have saved a lot of lives.

So I have no idea how the gun lobby is spinning this to make it look like this guy being able to buy a gun would have been a good thing.

"Someone would (emphasis on would, I've not seen anyone say that it might not have happened, but that it WOULD have happened) have shot him before he could do any damage"

Going so far as someone saying that one shot would have ended it all, because no matter where you're shot, no matter how hopped up on adrenaline you are, you will automatically slump over.

And the person doing the shooting is always going to hit what they're aiming at too, of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 24, 2017, 06:15:34 pm

I'm curious about one thing tho, what's the number of mass shootings that were ended early by a civilian having a gun? Like, for all the claims "if only they were all armed" every time a shooting or something similar happens, when has it actually happened? Because I can't recall a single time, like ever, that an armed civilian stopped a mass shooting or an attack of some sort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on March 24, 2017, 06:39:33 pm

Quote from: Jopax on March 24, 2017, 06:15:34 pm

I'm curious about one thing tho, what's the number of mass shootings that were ended early by a civilian having a gun? Like, for all the claims "if only they were all armed" every time a shooting or something similar happens, when has it actually happened? Because I can't recall a single time, like ever, that an armed civilian stopped a mass shooting or an attack of some sort.

It doesnt happen often, but has happened in US schools and universities several times that either a teacher or another student has stopped a mass shooter. Sometimes they've had to run to their cars for their guns, but still.

The point in allowing carrying is in prevention of crime from being attempted. Mass shooters all too often choose gun free zones and other soft targets, using guns, vehicle or bomb(s). Although my personal opinion is that when it comes to islamic terror, a Jihadist who wants to become martyr is probably only slightly less effective with guns around(they effect his plans little), since part of the goal is dying. Just maximizing victim numbers is at best a bit harder.

Within Europe, concealed carry is allowed at least in Czech Republic and Estonia. Interestingly I believe it was a INTERPOL chief who recommended allowing concealed carry as an (cost?) effective way to at least somewhat inhibit terror attacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 24, 2017, 07:12:00 pm

Poorly planned though. I think they're just random berserkers. If a terrorist group makes a public call for help from western denizens, a couple of crazies will likely answer. Not likely to be the best at planning an attack, but certainly cheap, and if properly spinned, can look "good" for the media

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 25, 2017, 10:08:20 am

You still refer to Chinese as chins and japanese as bloody japs then? That's soo last century.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 25, 2017, 10:12:46 am

"Chinky" is the common derogatory British term for Far Easterners, and I don't imagine racists particularly care if the person is Chinese or not.

In much less unpleasant terms, I'm also under the impression that "Oriental" would describe someone from East Asia, "Asian" is more of an Indian subcontinent dealio, and "Arab" for a Near East counterpart, at least from a UK POV.

Edit: I'm also not really sure what your problem is with the descriptor, Covenant. Looks like you're just upset that American media doesn't identify someone as Muslim, rather than being annoyed they're not being specific enough in describing their country of origin.

I hope you realise that not all Asians are Muslim. Indeed, if we indulge in the level of nitpicky-ness that you are, not all Pakistanis are Muslim, either.

Edit 2: or not. Note to self: git gud.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 25, 2017, 10:59:01 am

I did do just that. I should probably not try to read and comment on things when I'm doped to the eyeballs. Sorry!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2017, 02:15:15 pm

Polish Consulate in Ukraine got shoot at with a grenade launcher.
WAR!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 29, 2017, 04:10:28 pm

I've heard it was because someone in Poland has made a film about what happened to Poles in Western Ukraine during WW2.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on March 29, 2017, 04:49:24 pm

Yeah, Wołyń (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-nwg693WCE). After seeing the movie, I must say that from what I heard from actual people that were there or seen the rare few photos (Germans liked to keep a documentation because even SS divisions were honestly impressed (or even to a point horrified, there were cases when Poles were literally protected by Germans, which of course led to pots-war propaganda of Ukrainians just fighting just war against Polish collaboration with Germany) by ferocity of the massacres) from the period, it's actually not even close to what Ukrainians actually did.
Although there have been quite a lot of those attacks recently. Quite a few memorials and monuments to Polish victims of either the Ukrainians or Soviets have been vandalized, inscribed with "Death To Poles" and Swastikas and painted them red and black (UPA colours), a cross or two were blown up. Polish consulate has been painted too, back in February and a sign "It's our land" was put on the fence. Official Ukrainian stance is that they have been made by provocateurs that may be hinted to be Russians trying to cause a war or at least distrust between Poland and Ukraine, which is actually working - the whole deal with Volhynian massacres and such is still sore in Poland, especially since it's constantly brought back into light, like when Ukrainian Government declared Stepan Bandera an national hero, even though the award was quickly annuled when it caused huge amount of backlash. However, the Ukrainian nationalism still exists, is strong, and I would not be suprised if it was actually honest Ukrainians who did it.
The room that was hit was actually occupied by a sleeping worker and if the projectile hit somewhere lower, he would proably die. (http://i.imgur.com/eVvXBqR.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2017, 11:32:20 am

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/326510-eu-president-threatens-to-break-up-the-usa-if-trump-doesnt-offer-support

Nice frikking rhetoric on his part.

Slightly surprised that he didn't mention California, as it's been chest thumping about it since the election.

Also, I thought Donald Tusk was the EU President? Though I've also heard that it has like seven Presidents or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on March 30, 2017, 11:39:48 am

Not only is it a huge failure of rethoric, its also completely and utterly retarded to compare something like brexit to an attempt to seceed from the goddamn US of A. If thats the kind of leadership the EU chooses, then LEL no wonder GTFOing the EU is an idea thats spreading across France and other places.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2017, 11:47:17 am

It's also a bit strange that he chose Austin, Texas rather than just Texas.

I'm not upset over it as it's obviously venting and secceeding from the US is FAR, FAR more difficult than the way the EU allows it. So, it's also a misunderstanding on his part of how leaving the Union even works, or rather, doesn't work. Since it was made virtually impossible after the Civil War.

Plus the states are a hell of a lot more interdependent on the rest of the US than things were back in the mid 19th century. The only ones that could plausibly go it alone without major issues are Hawaii and Alaska since they're already relatively disconnected from the rest of the states by the Pacific and by Canada, respectively.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on March 30, 2017, 11:55:28 am

This just in on KebabWatch:

Three men and a girl from Kosovo has been detained in Venice, on suspicion of planning a terror attack in the city.

They have been under surveillance for several months, as they have been planning to travel to Syria and join the Islamic State. All four held Italian residency permits. Luckily, they were caught while their attack was very much on the planning stage. Targets include the Rialto bridge, but they had not yet been able to build an explosive before they were arrested.

Jolly well done. Hopefully, they can be squeezed for some useful information, as well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39442210

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2017, 12:00:12 pm

From Kosovo? Ouch, the Serbs are definetly going to pounce on that fact. Though they'd probably pounce on anything with the word Kosovo in it anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2017, 02:36:42 am

Quote from: TempAcc on March 30, 2017, 11:39:48 am

Not only is it a huge failure of rethoric, its also completely and utterly retarded to compare something like brexit to an attempt to seceed from the goddamn US of A. If thats the kind of leadership the EU chooses, then LEL no wonder GTFOing the EU is an idea thats spreading across France and other places.

He got a point though, it's not exactly diplomatic from Trump to say countries should secede.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 31, 2017, 03:29:49 am

Hardly a secession if a country is leaving an economic union that's headed in a direction they don't like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2017, 03:37:48 am

I'm not saying countries shouldn't be able to leave the EU, I'm saying it's not really diplomatic of Mr Trump to urge them to do so. Plus, Junker gotta Juncker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZhU-eT8z0).

Spoiler: Transcript of the start (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redd.it/op9mhfdntloy.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 31, 2017, 03:51:34 am

My bad on that, my definition of secede seems to be a lot narrower than the offical one x)

Now, I'm not saying encouraging others to follow suit is a non-shit thing to do, but I'm having trouble hating on the guy for supporting the UK in this. Just because the union didn't work out for them doesn't mean the EU should get a free pass in turning them into a political pariah in the western hemisphere. It's kinda creepy in a way, like a guy leaving a girl because he realised she's into the relationship way more seriously than he is so she goes on to fuck his life up as much as possible to prove a point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 31, 2017, 04:24:49 am

Oh, I'm okay with not turning the UK into a pariah. But supporting the UK after the fact and encouraging other countries to leave are different thing. Plus, I don't think anyone actually wants to fuck the UK jsut to fuck them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2017, 04:31:58 am

The way EU officials have been expressing themselves it certainly seems so to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 31, 2017, 08:05:36 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 31, 2017, 03:37:48 am

I'm not saying countries shouldn't be able to leave the EU, I'm saying it's not really diplomatic of Mr Trump to urge them to do so. Plus, Junker gotta Juncker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZhU-eT8z0).

Spoiler: Transcript of the start (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redd.it/op9mhfdntloy.png)

lol.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 31, 2017, 08:38:39 am

Quote from: scriver on March 31, 2017, 04:31:58 am

The way EU officials have been expressing themselves it certainly seems so to me.

Fucking over UK has an important purpose of showing what happens to the traitors to the Union, which will serve the purpose of increasing the unity and put EU further towards federalization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 31, 2017, 09:18:56 am

... most of what they seem to be calling for isn't really "fucking over", though. Just treating the UK like someone not in the union and/or supporting the ones that are over (relatively soon to no longer be a member) UK interests. Which does kinda' fuck 'em over (go figure, a major economic alliance with local powers is just a wee bit beneficial), but that doesn't appear to be the intent even if the occasional bit of rhetoric leans that way.

More than punishing someone, the EU needs to be showing they will support their own first and foremost. Not particularly their problem if the UK stuck their head up their own arse and refused to acknowledge the consequences of that... or decided they'd be better off without that support, to be more charitable. Fair amount of the euroskeptic screeching about the EU wanting to punish the UK is just idiots that didn't realize they had a really goddamn good deal and they weren't going to get to keep it while dropping their end of the bargain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 31, 2017, 05:40:53 pm

Eh, if what the UK was getting on that front and all the rest of them wasn't enough, I doubt taking a dump on humanitarian issues would have made a difference. Lot that cared about that would have just buried the polish under more shit or somethin'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 31, 2017, 05:53:42 pm

Great news, everyone: Germany rejects US (read: Trump's) pressure for Nato spending rise (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39460685). Smart people!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 31, 2017, 07:33:02 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on March 31, 2017, 05:53:42 pm

Great news, everyone: Germany rejects US (read: Trump's) pressure for Nato spending rise (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39460685). Smart people!

I wonder if Trumps extortion attempt had anything to do with it. Though both sides are denying that Trump ever tried to do that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 01, 2017, 04:54:33 am

Part of the Dutch Turk population can't pay their rent and food, because Erdogan stole their paychecks.
Erdogan ordered the confiscation and closing down of a Turkish bank, Bank Asya, that according to him has ties to the Gülen movement. Quite a few Dutch Turks have an account with that bank, and recieve their paychecks there.

I don't think they can apply for welfare, because they are already employed, and I highly doubt the Dutch state is gonna cough up money to replace the cash that Erdogan stole. According to the newspaper Trouw, Erdogan froze a total of 1.6 billion euros. Anyone who had an account with the bank is automatically put on the list of terrorism suspects (as in, everyone who has an account there is now officially accused and charges filed against them by the criminal justice department). Dutch Turks can get their money back, but only if they travel to Turkey in person to defend against the case against them. No sane Turk is going to do that in the current paranoid dictator climate.

The Turkish consulate in the Netherlands refuses to help the Netherturks, because 'orders from Turkey'.

Inb4 the Dutch state decides to reimburse the Turks after all, and Erdogan accuses it of funding terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on April 01, 2017, 08:06:13 am

Quote from: greatorder on April 01, 2017, 07:23:53 am

That or he's purposely fucking everything as a way of saying to the Turkish people "THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T ELECT DICTATORS!"

Yeah, just as Trump is only pretending to be deranged lunatic to gain votes to win the elections...
OH WAIT.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 01, 2017, 08:39:01 am

Quote from: Kot on April 01, 2017, 08:06:13 am

Quote from: greatorder on April 01, 2017, 07:23:53 am

That or he's purposely fucking everything as a way of saying to the Turkish people "THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T ELECT DICTATORS!"

Yeah, just as Trump is only pretending to be deranged lunatic to gain votes to win the elections...
OH WAIT.

I still remember the good old days when people thought he would spend his speech at the Republican National Convention admitting the long con and mocking the Republicans.
...
Then the days when people thought he would do that at his inauguration speech.

Absolute paranoid lunatic works pretty well as an explanation for Erdogan's actions, without getting into the whole 11-D chess thing.

On a more serious note, are most Dutch Turks for or against Erdogan? And I also doubt the Dutch state is going to be so charitable, for little relative gain and possibly huge political opposition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2017, 09:01:52 am

Pretty sure he's lost the vote of those that he's withheld the paychecks from anyway, Azzuro. If he ever had the vote of those.

Seems like he sees Gulen ties everywhere, or at least only those that disagree with him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 01, 2017, 09:04:25 am

Quote from: Frumple on March 31, 2017, 09:18:56 am

... most of what they seem to be calling for isn't really "fucking over", though. Just treating the UK like someone not in the union and/or supporting the ones that are over (relatively soon to no longer be a member) UK interests. Which does kinda' fuck 'em over (go figure, a major economic alliance with local powers is just a wee bit beneficial), but that doesn't appear to be the intent even if the occasional bit of rhetoric leans that way.

More than punishing someone, the EU needs to be showing they will support their own first and foremost. Not particularly their problem if the UK stuck their head up their own arse and refused to acknowledge the consequences of that... or decided they'd be better off without that support, to be more charitable. Fair amount of the euroskeptic screeching about the EU wanting to punish the UK is just idiots that didn't realize they had a really goddamn good deal and they weren't going to get to keep it while dropping their end of the bargain.

The best thing for EU's own is to make sure that the trade with the UK proceeds as unhindered as possible. This is the best thing for the EU too. The only entity that would be bad for would be the EU imperialists who wants to dominate and shit all over the citizens of EU countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 01, 2017, 09:17:32 am

Quote from: scriver on April 01, 2017, 09:04:25 am

--- The only entity that would be bad for would be the EU imperialists who wants to dominate and shit all over the citizens of EU countries.

So Junckner and the rest of the Commission, at least?  :P Agreed on trade and co-operation between UK and EU countries needing to proceed as unhindered as possible being best for every party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 01, 2017, 09:45:23 am

Quote from: Azzuro on April 01, 2017, 08:39:01 am

On a more serious note, are most Dutch Turks for or against Erdogan? And I also doubt the Dutch state is going to be so charitable, for little relative gain and possibly huge political opposition.

I'd estimate it to be about 50%-50%. How many of those 50% actually had an account at Bank Asya, no idea. It's not something the Dutch government can just ignore I think. There's nearly a million Turks in the Netherlands, which is nearly 1/17th of the total population. If this affects a significant number of people, they can't just sit by and let people get into debts because they lost a month's income or more. People in debt cost the state money, either directly or indirectly. Which is why we have extensive debt prevention programs and debt relief programs.

EDIT: checking the wiki, apparently it's 400000 - 500000 Turks living in the Netherlands. It seems their numbers have dwindled over the years, it used to be more. Combination of economy in Turkey improving (at least up until a year or two ago), and Dutch companies offshoring manufacturing jobs, I guess. It does make sense. I know quite a few Turks myself who returned to Turkey after retirement, and Turks whose Dutch born children returned to Turkey to set up business there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 01, 2017, 10:21:00 am

Ah, I was wondering what portion of Turks in foreign countries support the Turkish government. Down here in Southeast Asia there's quite a lot of dislike among the Chinese diaspora for the PRC. If the account freezing is indiscriminate he's going to turn previously-undecided Dutch Turks against him with good reason. What does the Dutch state do for them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 01, 2017, 01:09:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 01, 2017, 09:04:25 am

The best thing for EU's own is to make sure that the trade with the UK proceeds as unhindered as possible. This is the best thing for the EU too. The only entity that would be bad for would be the EU imperialists who wants to dominate and shit all over the citizens of EU countries.

As possible, sure, but that's not going to mean "the same". Particularly with a country that's shown that it, at the least, has major political parties hostile to the union. Giving the UK the same deal as EU member states have without any of the costs or responsibilities would be shitting all over the agreements with the other alliance members. Would mean the union is worth basically nothing, which would kinda' defeat any point of it and all but guarantee there's not going to be an EU's own in short order.

I'm sure the EU backstabbing its faithful members for a cut of that (declining) UK dosh would be great for euroskeptic folks (if no one else and them only from an ideological perspective, because the EU coming apart isn't going to be pretty for Europe), but the union's going to have to treat non-union (particularly, again, in regards to a political entity that's acted like chunks of the UK has) differently if there's going to be much reason for it to exist. However unhindered trade continues, the UK's going to be paying more for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 02, 2017, 05:28:53 pm

British former ambassador of Libya has warned the EU that their efforts to stem the migrant tide in Libya, and training the coast guard in situ, is too little, and too late.
According to him, at this moment there are a million, if not more Africans already in the pipeline from West African and the Horn of Africa, en route to Italy.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/02/1m-african-migrants-may-be-en-route-to-europe-says-former-uk-envoy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 02, 2017, 11:22:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2017, 05:28:53 pm

British former ambassador of Libya has warned the EU that their efforts to stem the migrant tide in Libya, and training the coast guard in situ, is too little, and too late.
According to him, at this moment there are a million, if not more Africans already in the pipeline from West African and the Horn of Africa, en route to Italy.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/02/1m-african-migrants-may-be-en-route-to-europe-says-former-uk-envoy

Is the guy talking about the usual migrant influx that Europe gets on a normal (well, before the Syrian refugee crisis exploded into Europe) basis or is he warning (or fearmongering, without background statistics I'm not sure which one) of a new surge of migrants that is larger than the usual?

Seems like the last thing that Europe would want right now is a new migrant surge on top of the current refugee influx.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 03, 2017, 01:34:32 am

Hard to say. With the current famine in Somalia I could see a bigger-than-usual surge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 03, 2017, 02:25:34 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 02, 2017, 11:22:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 02, 2017, 05:28:53 pm

British former ambassador of Libya has warned the EU that their efforts to stem the migrant tide in Libya, and training the coast guard in situ, is too little, and too late.
According to him, at this moment there are a million, if not more Africans already in the pipeline from West African and the Horn of Africa, en route to Italy.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/02/1m-african-migrants-may-be-en-route-to-europe-says-former-uk-envoy

Is the guy talking about the usual migrant influx that Europe gets on a normal (well, before the Syrian refugee crisis exploded into Europe) basis or is he warning (or fearmongering, without background statistics I'm not sure which one) of a new surge of migrants that is larger than the usual?

Seems like the last thing that Europe would want right now is a new migrant surge on top of the current refugee influx.

Smjj, I feel like we've been over this before. There was no "Syrian refugee crisis". Most of the migrants making up the crisis were not refugees, and even less were Syrian. If only Syrian refugees had immigrated there would have been no "Syrian refugee crisis". They simply did not make up enough of the numbers for that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 03, 2017, 04:54:18 am

He is not talking about Syrians. He is talking about West Africans and East Africans (the Horn of Africa). It's the type of refugee that will be stuck for a year or ten in refugee centers before being told they have no chance to get a permit, and returned to Africa.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 03, 2017, 06:19:59 am

Quote from: scriver on April 03, 2017, 02:25:34 am

Smjj, I feel like we've been over this before. There was no "Syrian refugee crisis". Most of the migrants making up the crisis were not refugees, and even less were Syrian. If only Syrian refugees had immigrated there would have been no "Syrian refugee crisis". They simply did not make up enough of the numbers for that.

Well, there was a lot of Syrian still, they were the larger group by far even if they weren't a majority (About ~25% of the total). You can have a breakdown here. Given that the crisis was more about the politics of the thing and the lack of coordinated response than absolute number, I think the Syrians (or Syrians+ Iraqis) on their own would likely have been enough. :

(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/0/01/Countries_of_origin_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_seekers_in_the_EU-28_Member_States%2C_2015_and_2016_%28thousands_of_first_time_applicants%29_YB17.png/800px-Countries_of_origin_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_seekers_in_the_EU-28_Member_States%2C_2015_and_2016_%28thousands_of_first_time_applicants%29_YB17.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 04, 2017, 01:38:37 am

No, the crisis was definitely about the number of immigrants. 70% less people would be been 70% less people to take care of.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 04, 2017, 05:07:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 04, 2017, 01:38:37 am

No, the crisis was definitely about the number of immigrants. 70% less people would be been 70% less people to take care of.

Well, first of all, 70% exclude all non-Syrians, when there is a legitimate case that Iraqis for exemple are just as much refugees as Syrians. Then, I think you're underestimating the political aspect. Look at Greece, were a mere 50-70.000 people are still stuck and managing to cause a huge political mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2017, 01:20:22 am

No, 75% excludes all non-Syrians. The 70% percent is based on the most generous estimation of non-eligible asylum seekers in Sweden (70-80%) since I wasn't up to making a percentage conversion of that table.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 05, 2017, 02:01:02 am

What do you base it on? Is that the percentage of asylum seeker not granted asylum? The number of people granted asylum that you think don't deserve it? The amount of people granted subsidiary protection?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2017, 05:18:21 am

The estimated numbers politicians in our news/debate shows has used.

We don't know what numbers are actually granted asylum yet because the immigration agency is still resolving the 2015 cases.

The 25% number was based on your own words.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 05, 2017, 05:44:20 am

... man, if you trust the numbers on immigration/refugees used by politicians on your news and debate shows, your lot must have a hella' better record on that front than they do stateside. Particularly if they're being bandied about by anyone with a degree of animus towards the demographic in question.

Over here stuff doesn't exactly tend to take long before you get into "yeah, I should probably be checking the actual statistics instead of trusting what this asshole is saying about them" territory. Indulged on both sides of the discussion and bystanders as well, but the anti-immigrant folks in particular are somewhat notorious for it.

It's nice if they do have that record, though. TV appearing politicians not dragging data into a dark alleyway and vigorously fornicating it would be an interesting experience.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 05, 2017, 05:47:36 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 05, 2017, 05:44:20 am

... man, if you trust the numbers on immigration/refugees used by politicians on your news and debate shows, your lot must have a hella' better record on that front than they do stateside. Particularly if they're being bandied about by anyone with a degree of animus towards the demographic in question.

Over here stuff doesn't exactly tend to take long before you get into "yeah, I should probably be checking the actual statistics instead of trusting what this asshole is saying about them" territory. Indulged on both sides of the discussion and bystanders as well, but the anti-immigrant folks in particular are somewhat notorious for it.

It's nice if they do have that record, though. TV appearing politicians not dragging data into a dark alleyway and vigorously fornicating it would be an interesting experience.

The problem in the EU is that no one has real numbers because there's so many unregistered that it's impossible to tell anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 05, 2017, 05:50:09 am

You can at least check methodology on how they're estimating, in cases like that. Impossible to tell is words politicians use when they can't be arsed to understand what the statisticians et al are saying, much of the time :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2017, 07:47:42 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 05, 2017, 05:44:20 am

... man, if you trust the numbers on immigration/refugees used by politicians on your news and debate shows, your lot must have a hella' better record on that front than they do stateside. Particularly if they're being bandied about by anyone with a degree of animus towards the demographic in question.

Over here stuff doesn't exactly tend to take long before you get into "yeah, I should probably be checking the actual statistics instead of trusting what this asshole is saying about them" territory. Indulged on both sides of the discussion and bystanders as well, but the anti-immigrant folks in particular are somewhat notorious for it.

It's nice if they do have that record, though. TV appearing politicians not dragging data into a dark alleyway and vigorously fornicating it would be an interesting experience.

Considering I only watch the news on super-pro-immigrant SVT (Swedish state television) the only way they would be skewed would be that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 05, 2017, 08:18:37 am

Maybe? Inclination isn't certainty, and it's entirely possible for a pro-whatever group to be using numbers that seem to be (or are) counter to their point, due to all sorts of things. You check for a reason, more or less.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2017, 02:27:17 am

Our National Coordinator of Counterterrorism and Safety has warned, again and more strongly, in it's new threat assessment report, that IS will not shun using children as suicide attackers in Europe, and that with the crumbling of the Caliphate, more and more indoctrinated children will return to the Netherlands.
The report says there's a minimum of 80 Dutch children living in the Caliphate, but quite likely much more, since women do not stop having children once they go to the Caliphate.
IS is aware that children are checked less at borders, and not as easily percieved a threat, and use this to their advantage.

Children are one of the important pillars of the Caliphate. They are essential to the proliferation of IS' cultural inheritage, and are indoctrinated in all aspects of life, through education, through training camps, and through their parents.
Until they are 6 years old, children go to mixed gender schools. After that, boys and girls are schooled seperately.

In the Caliphate schools, a strict interpretation of islam is taught, the jihadistic salafism. Everything that deviates from that is illegal. Teachers that don't stick to the curriculum risk being executed.

Horrible deeds by IS are legitimated with passages from the Quran. Education is linked to military strategy. Lessons are illustrated with tanks, handgrenades, and combat positions.
The main focus lies with creating a strong us - them feeling. 'Them' are the Crusaders, the unbelievers, and the apostates.

During physical excercise classes, children have to do semi-military excercises, while singing the ba'yah, the oath of loyalty to Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Children are made immune to violence.  Parents are required to read bedtime stories about martyrdom, and encouraged to take their children to see public executions. At age 9, boys are selected to join training camps, where they are taught to handle blades and firearms. They'll be trained to be a combatant, a suicide bomber,  a sniper, or a bombmaker.
The boys are hardened by a strict regime of little food and hard physical excercise. If they fail to do their tasks properly, they will be flogged by their instructor.

Child-Jihadis appear regularily in IS propaganda videos. They show children acting as executioners, killing captives.
In a recent video, dating from january this year, a 4 - 5 year old toddler shoots a 'PKK prisoner', and watches when a slightly older boy decapitates another prisoner.

The report also warns, again, that it's not just Caliphate children that are a threat. As we've seen in Germany, when a German-Iraqi 12 year old who had never been to the Caliphate tried to detonate a bomb at a christmas market.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/nctv-kinderen-inzetten-voor-terreur-in-europa-is-zal-er-niet-voor-terugdeinzen~a4483461/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/nctv-kinderen-inzetten-voor-terreur-in-europa-is-zal-er-niet-voor-terugdeinzen~a4483461/)

Biggest problem is, that it's very hard to do something about it, unless we get rid of International Child Right treaties. It's just legally impossible to interrogate children, or lock them up for prolonged periods of time, especially if they have not commited any criminal act yet. Getting rid of the internet would also help, stopping the radicalization of children at home through social media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 06, 2017, 03:34:46 am

Eurostat got fairly good asylum statistics if y'all are interested (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:First_instance_decisions_by_outcome,_selected_Member_States,_4th_quarter_2016.png). Which is why I was surprised about scriver's claim, since Sweden only rejected ~24 % of asylum claim (although a lot of them were granted subsidiary protection rather than full asylum, and I think the details of that are down to Swedish law and I'm not sure what the difference actually is).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 06, 2017, 05:21:28 am

 1, That's only for one quarter, and 2, I trust the numbers used by our government officials over that image. Is it even sourced? If there's an article with a source somewhere I don't know how to go from the image to that.

Apparently that site is a wiki as well. [citation needed]?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 06, 2017, 05:37:15 am

Uh, brain farted sorry, I took the url of an image instead of the one from the page. The Commission produces both quarterly report (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report) (usually aout 3 months after the end of the quarter, so we won't have the quarterly report for 1st quarter of 2017 until June) And more general statistics (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics#Decisions_on_asylum_applications), which include stuff like decision rates and so on. They also maintain a database if you want to do some more digging. (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/asylum-and-managed-migration/data/database)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2017, 04:23:30 pm

German justice department has opened a criminal investigation into at least 20 imams, accusing them of espionage for the Turkish government, supplying them with information about possible Gülen sympathisants.

It concerns imams that have been brought to Germany by the religious organisation Ditib. Ditib administers and manages about 800 mosques in Germany, and is active in multiple cultural advisory committees.

Last week it already became public that German justice department is also investigating an unknown number of spies from the Turkish intelligence agency MIT.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 07, 2017, 08:15:13 am

Kebab-Alert.
A new lorry incident has occured in Stockholm City, Sweden.

A lorry has, apparently, run over several people on the non-traffic road Drottninggatan. It appears to have then attempted to crash into the nearby Åhléns department store, where it stopped. The lorry belongs to the Spendrups brewing company, and was hijacked outside of a restaurant earlier today.

I was tempted to head-line this under 'Kebab-Alert'. We do not know, of course, but at this point, it is not an unreasonable assumption. We shall see.
It is now rather clear that it was not an accident, but a deliberate action. The police has labeled the incident as a suspected terror attack. To speak plainly, if it is not the bloody nappy-heads again, I shall eat my tie.

At the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39531108

Local:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/stockholm/lastbil-har-kort-in-i-folkmassa-i-stockholm/

EDIT: Adding further developments.

The internal security police confirms that two three people have been killed. Unconfirmed reports have risen to five. Prime Minister Löfven confirms that one suspect has been apprehended.
The reports of nearby gun-fire has been confirmed.

The centre of the city is under lock-down, and the police are clearing the streets. The underground and the regular train traffic in the city has been halted. The lorry has been searched, and no traces of explosives has been found.

Later edit: There is an unusual amount on unclarity regarding the developing situation; some claim that suspects have been apprehended, some claim not, and even the police seems unsure on the matter (or rather, their press contact staff). I believe that it might be a while before the fog of war lifts. Until then, a summary of what can be ascertained:

1: A lorry, from a brewing company, is hijacked outside of a restaurant, further up the street.
2: It drives down the pedestrian-only street Drottninggatan, killing 3 and injuring 8 (at time of writing).
3: It crashes and come to a stop in the front window of the Åhléns department store.

A picture of the suspect, wanted by the police and at large in connection to the attack.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://images.scribblelive.com/2017/4/7/97bebf73-3beb-485f-bde1-8e3f5e054573.png)

Personal Reflections:
It was not truly a question of 'if', it was a question of 'where' and 'when'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 07, 2017, 11:09:39 am

Thank you kindly, and rest assured, that it is likewise. I, and everyone that I know, is well out of harm's way, but every death at home stings.

It is strange. I can only speak for myself, but I do not feel particularly surprised or distressed. It is... Well, imagine an early summer storm. You know that it is coming. The air is heavy. And when the thunder strikes, it comes with a certain relief. I believe that we all knew that it would happen, eventually. Most people that I know had the same idea. It is still a dreadful, cowardly murder, but it is certainly not a bolt from blue skies. We have been, effectively, at war for many years. This has simply proven it. And I hope, by the grace of God, that things might change now. That it will, at least, break the dead-lock.
I do not live in Stockholm, but I have visited it fairly regularly, and it is a place that I know well. That street in particular. I am relieved that the casualties were not more, but every single one is far too much. This cannot be allowed to stand. The enemy must be made to pay. For this is not how things should be.

I do not know where scriver is based. I do hope that he is safe and sound.

EDIT: as for the picture, he looks the usual type. The 'eyy aboo ali-baba gib sharia or jihad, but no take benefits pl0x' type... I am not sure if he is involved at all, or how he is, but it would certainly not be a surprise.
I might be entirely wrong. It might be an ordinary citizen, one of the al-right types, caught up in the mess. But I am doubtful, and more to the point, jolly tired of walking on egg-shells for the benefit of people who wish to kill me or who do not particularly mind it happen.

DOUBLEDIT: A picture that shows the path of the lorry and surrounding events.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://images.scribblelive.com/2017/4/7/1d2e2261-c8f8-4565-b783-b1920e233404.jpeg)

Red square, top: Lorry hijacked.
First arrow, from top: Lorry enters pedestrian street, runs over concrete lion sculpture/barrier.
Second arrow: describes how the lorry went off Queen's Street and took a de-tour.
Third arrow: Lorry crashes into department store.

Top white arrow: Man arrested at Norra Klara Kyrkogata 15:30.
Bottom white arrow: Man arrested by Åhléns 16:30. (The man in the picture that Covenant has linked).

Who the men are, and what their connections to the attack are, is terribly unclear at time of writing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 07, 2017, 01:00:14 pm

The two arrests have as far as i can tell been clarified as not being arrests but taken-for-hearings, according to the police.

As for me, I and my closest family is in the south, but I haven't heard from my family in Stockholm yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 07, 2017, 01:10:51 pm

Happy to hear it, scriver. I have my fingers crossed.

Quote from: Covenant on April 07, 2017, 12:57:03 pm

I've also heard reports about shots being fired - is that mentioned on the picture you just posted? I don't speak Swedish, I'm afraid, so I'm finding it hard to dig through the info.

It is not mentioned on the picture, no. It is rather vague an unconfirmed still, the matter of the gun-shots. I suppose the picture will clear regarding them later, but for now, it is all speculation. I will provide what I can dig up that seems substantial.

The reports of gun-shots seems to have been a misunderstanding. Nothing substantial has surfaced regarding those, and the police cannot confirm that any shots or fire exchanges have taken place. It now seems most likely to have been an unsubstantiated rumour. Of course, the picture will likely become clearer as the investigation proper begins.

As for the two men taken in for questioning, I do hope they can squeeze them on some information. It would be intolerably irritating to see this one slip the hook. Mind you, with the paper-thin Tomorrowland^TM borders that we have, he could be half-way to Fiji, for all we know.

Update: A man has been arrested. He fits the profile, he was carrying a balaclava and had shattered glass on his clothes. It is unknown what involvement he had. While unconfirmed, some sources claim that he has admitted responsibility. It is still unclear if he was the driver of the lorry, or if that suspect remains at large.

I do hope that it is him. _{And I do hope he will live to regret being taken alive.}

Further update: President Putin sent a rather kind telegram of condolence to the king. I think that it is rather sweet. It is very Putin; traditional, conventional and worthy. Between it and the rest of the harvest, I must say that I am happily surprised. I expected an awful lot more gloating, truth be told.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 07, 2017, 10:52:03 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 07, 2017, 10:48:35 am

This (https://i.imgur.com/qcQhovd.png) is apparently a picture of the apprehended suspect. The beard would certainly suggest another radical Islamic terror attack.

My deepest sympathies to you and your countrymen, Silverthrone. We shouldn't have to put up with this. Here's hoping that some day this kind of thing starts becoming less likely to happen, instead of increasingly likely by the day.

If a beard automatically assumed Islamic terror, then Abraham Lincolin would be Islamic terror :P

Just saying that basing it on a beard alone is ridiculous.

Also, remember the Antwerp thing? (http://www.politico.eu/article/antwerp-police-drop-terror-charge-against-man-who-drove-at-crowd/) Turns out the guy WAS drunk. What he was doing with a whole bunch of weapons in his car though, no idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 09, 2017, 06:12:16 am

It wouldn't be strange. There were similar marches for tolerance and anti-islamophobia after the Paris and Brussels attacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 09, 2017, 10:08:08 am

Quote from: Covenant on April 09, 2017, 06:03:40 am

I saw a few things floating around saying there's going to be an anti-Islamophobia march in Stockholm today just a short distance away from the site of the most recent terror attack, but I couldn't find anything when Googling. Is it a load of bollocks, or is it actually a thing? I'm mainly asking our based Bay12 Swedes.

Refugees Welcome and Swedish Red Cross both holding marches/demonstrations of their own. "Because racism and hate crime waves always happen after events like these" said someone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 09, 2017, 10:29:03 am

I'm prob late for the discussion, but one friend of mine who was traveling in stockolm during the attack told me apparently the truck had a bomb inside of it. He didn't witness the attack or anything, but he was very surprised when he watched the local news and saw that it had happened, and he didn't really know how to feel about it, being in the city during a terrorist attack, even if its a small one. Its not something many of us are used to dealing with :U

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 09, 2017, 10:33:52 am

Indeed, expect a wave of reactionary hate crimes against Muslims and Middle Easterners soon. Tolerance marches are a good way for the public to show solidarity in the face of terror, and stop them from achieving their aims.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 09, 2017, 10:55:22 am

I'd prefer an anti-progressiphobia match by Muslims and a show of solidarity with Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 09, 2017, 11:59:24 am

Deleted due to risk of banning.

Message me if you want it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 09, 2017, 02:47:53 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 09, 2017, 06:03:40 am

I saw a few things floating around saying there's going to be an anti-Islamophobia march in Stockholm today just a short distance away from the site of the most recent terror attack, but I couldn't find anything when Googling. Is it a load of bollocks, or is it actually a thing? I'm mainly asking our based Bay12 Swedes.

I believe so. There were several different marches in Stockholm, including for a football match. Indeed, there have not really been any elevated hesistance to go into town and get outside throughout the country, despite the attack. It has been a fairly ordinary early spring week-end.

EDIT: As a personal note, I made my damndest to make it a lovely spring week-end. I bought some Norrlands Guld, the beer brand advertised on the lorry, out of solidarity. There were policemen all over the city, and all flags had been hoisted half mast, but it was still a remarkably pleasant day. The country keeps ticking over, people are still out and about, and summer is coming. It is difficult to describe, but it does feel like a victory, of sorts. Or rather, an assurance. What we have, what we have built and tended, is far greater than something that a few cowardly little nappy-heads can hope to topple like this.

As for the march, I do now know precisely who is marching where and when, but I imagine that it is a fairly broad spectrum of participants.

I fear that there will be some reflex kebab hugging (for want of a better word), as well. It has, however, been far less hideous than I would have feared. I believe they might be laying low, at present. Further, this time, there is simply no way for the most revolting usual suspects to imply that it is the fault of the victims that they were killed.

Quote from: scriver on April 09, 2017, 10:55:22 am

I'd prefer an anti-progressiphobia match by Muslims and a show of solidarity with Sweden.

Agreed. A show of loyalty to the kingdom would not go amiss.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 09, 2017, 05:17:02 pm

Well, yes, it was not unexpected, and I could not bear giving the enemy the satisfaction of knowing that I would give up the first days of spring for their sake. I believe that the public thought and felt the same, over-all.

As for flags, I do agree. It is true that they are, indeed, just coloured fabric, but it is what they represent that matters. It is more than just mere fabric, it is a symbol. As such, it should be held in respect. I believe it is the same for all flags. I have, for instance, seen Irish flags used for table-cloths for St. Patrick's Day. While the intention is pleasant (a good party, and to celebrate the saint and Ireland as a whole), I believe it is a frightful faux pas.
I can understand why some people do link nation flags to racism and jingoism. But, it is an assumtion, an underdeveloped path of logic that ought to be challenged. It is the symbol of the nation. To then project the impression on to it that it is a symbol of racism and oppression and hate-crime, just at the mere sight of it, is just the same action as that of those who project the impression that it means racial purity, dominance and the freedom to repress and destroy all those who does not fit within it. Developing a healthy relationship to one's native land is very important, for it means more than merely the colour of the passport jacket. Neglecting this, and developing an unreasonable phobia to its colours, is as damaging as developing a twisted relationship to it that is built on violence, hatred and dreams of an impossible purity.

The flag-phobia seems to have begun to lessen, however. No doubt due to a change in the public zeitgeist. When tried and tested, I do believe that the idea of the nation-state stands firmer than it appeared, and it and its symbols might return in from the cold.
There is, of course, always the option to reject it. However, it would appear that a large portion of those who would reject the nation-state, its symbols and its duties, are very eager to make use of its benefits...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 09, 2017, 05:27:45 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 09, 2017, 04:23:28 pm

Though, I don't think it's unique to just our country - there's that infamous clip of Merkel being presented with a German flag and ditching it as quickly as possible.

You gotta remember that the German flag is quite unlike the others. Her waving a flag after winning the election sends a much different signal than another heaad of government doing the same with his flag.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 10, 2017, 07:57:15 am

Quote from: Helgoland on April 09, 2017, 05:27:45 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 09, 2017, 04:23:28 pm

Though, I don't think it's unique to just our country - there's that infamous clip of Merkel being presented with a German flag and ditching it as quickly as possible.

You gotta remember that the German flag is quite unlike the others. Her waving a flag after winning the election sends a much different signal than another heaad of government doing the same with his flag.

That's just because the last time German Nationalism was a thing, well.....

Though nobody complains when German athletes wave their flag at the Olympics parade of nations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 10, 2017, 08:29:21 am

That's because all the other flags are there, too. We've got no problem being a nation among equals - it's standing out that makes us feel iffy. 'Perpetual embarassment about the Great Unpleasantness Vol. II'  is a fairly precise sketch of our national character.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 10, 2017, 12:56:44 pm

Mélenchon, the communist, have picked up the pace and is now sitting at third place with 18-19% of the votes. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/jean-luc-melenchon-shakes-up-frances-presidential-race) Allegedly, it was because of his good showing at the debates, but the real reason becomes clear pretty soon:

Quote

Mélenchon’s radical programme includes a new €100bn (£91bn) stimulus plan and a reduction in the working week to 32 hours, as well as proposals to overhaul the EU and pull France out of Nato.

Putin is playing pretty hard there - it's his third candidate in France. Currently, pro-Russian candidates have both the first/second (Le Pen, tied with anti-Putinist/pro-EU Macron), the third (Mélenchon) and the fourth (Fillon) places in the French elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 10, 2017, 01:40:57 pm

I don't think you need to speculate Putin's influence for a hard left Frenchman to be against NATO, they sort of spent half the 20th century with that as their thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 10, 2017, 03:03:25 pm

I'm speculating Putin's influence in making him more popular.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 10, 2017, 03:41:28 pm

Meanwhile in Italy, the parliament has been furiously debating a new law, that will give women the right to 'paid menstruation leave'.
The law is intended for those women that suffer extra painful menstruation, and would allow them to take a day (or more) off from work, while still getting paid.

Similar laws are already in effect in some Asian countries, with Japan being the first to implement it, in 1947.


I'd say that's a pretty bad plan. That's not gonna help women find a job. What employer would hire someone that works 23 days a month, but gets paid for 25, when they can hire someone that works 25 and gets paid 25.

The Dutch Society for Obstetrics and Gynaecology also dissaproves of the idea. They say that "the Italian law requires women to hand over a written note from their doctor once a year, stating they have painful periods. That is too easy, and vulnerable to abuse. There is a real medical condition though, which afflicts about 10-15% of all women, called endometriosis. This disease mostly expresses itself as extreme menstruational pain, but can also cause infertility and the sticking together of organs. The disease is often only found after many years, because many women, doctors, and even gynaecologists still believe that pain is always simply inherent to menstruation. For a proper diagnosis however, an echo, MRI, or exploratory surgery is required.
So what we would advise, instead of making a law that damages all women's perspective of career, and increases discrimination on the job, is that employers, women, doctors and gynaecologists are better informed. If a women cannot work because of extreme menstruation pain, she should find out the source of those complaints, instead of sitting at home, with or without pay".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 10, 2017, 03:46:13 pm

Aren't virtually all forms of menstruation pain also solvable by taking hormonal contraceptives?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 10, 2017, 03:55:47 pm

Almost 300 German soldiers investigated over Nazi salutes and attacks on asylum seekers (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/10/almost-300-german-soldiers-investigated-nazi-salutes-attacks/)

this is why we wanted the Germans to disarm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 10, 2017, 03:58:49 pm

Heh, crazy as it sounds, with that Italian law, it would be a feminist thing to do, to argue that men should earn more than women, to prevent discrimination on the career market (it actually already is, and not just in Italy, if you consider pregnancy leave).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 10, 2017, 04:11:59 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on April 10, 2017, 03:46:13 pm

Aren't virtually all forms of menstruation pain also solvable by taking hormonal contraceptives?

Maybe there's some exceptional cases where it doesn't work, but those are likely very few.

The only likely reason why they might not is because the person couldn't afford it for whatever reason, and I don't know the state of Italian healthcare.

I suppose religion might also be a reason, but I find that to be hard to defend because pain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 10, 2017, 07:27:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 10, 2017, 03:58:49 pm

Heh, crazy as it sounds, with that Italian law, it would be a feminist thing to do, to argue that men should earn more than women, to prevent discrimination on the career market (it actually already is, and not just in Italy, if you consider pregnancy leave).

Or just give men the same days off, so they can take care of their partners :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 10, 2017, 07:50:23 pm

Butt touching time is very therapeutic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 10, 2017, 07:54:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 10, 2017, 04:11:59 pm

I suppose religion might also be a reason, but I find that to be hard to defend because pain.

Also because the only religion of note in Italy is Catholicism, and I'm fairly certain that the RCC permits use of hormonal contraceptives if it's to treat another condition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 02:03:34 am

Last week in the UK, a law came into place that any families with over two children can't claim benefits (welfare to Americans) for over those two kids. It includes legacy provisions (I think) so if you've had two kids before this you can still carry on claiming benefits. For non-Brits, there were a number of families in the UK who were getting thousands of pounds per month in child tax benefit despite never working in their lives (and the likelihood of it being their children will never work either).

Unfortunately, there is a "rape clause" which means that if you are raped and have a child as a result then you can claim benefits for that child. For some reason, people are saying that this is "degrading and inhuman" (http://archive.is/jjPZb) (I don't understand how, but whatever), even though you don't have to report it as a rape to the police or name the person.

Also, these are the people who were complaining weeks ago that a rape victim should not have to pay for any children resulting from it so now they've got what they want they... Complain that it shouldn't be like that? I don't understand.

I agree it should be scrapped, mostly because the number of "rape children" is gonna go through the roof in the UK in the next few years, as people see another avenue to claim even more benefits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2017, 03:08:44 am

That's a bad idea. I mean, it makes sense to want to stimulate having fewer children, in this overpopulated world, but by cutting benefits, you're hurting the children.

They should adopt my idea for that instead: Child-dependant retirement. You know, in all of the EU, people are grumbling about retirement age bing upped, and having to work until they are 67 or longer?

My proposal: If you have no children, you get 2 years early (government funded) retirement, so you can go work in your garden and travel the world. If you have 1 child, you get 1 year early retirement. If you have 2 children, you get normal retirement age. For every child after the second, you will have to work 2 years longer before you are allowed to retire. So if you have 10 children, be prepared to work until you're 80.

This idea doe not get children into trouble because parents cannot afford to raise them, like with the dumb UK idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on April 11, 2017, 03:32:58 am

How does the proposed system count children who pass before their parents?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2017, 04:35:15 am

You mean, does having a 'replacement child' count as +1 or 0?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 05:01:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2017, 03:08:44 am

That's a bad idea. I mean, it makes sense to want to stimulate having fewer children, in this overpopulated world, but by cutting benefits, you're hurting the children.

They should adopt my idea for that instead: Child-dependant retirement. You know, in all of the EU, people are grumbling about retirement age bing upped, and having to work until they are 67 or longer?

My proposal: If you have no children, you get 2 years early (government funded) retirement, so you can go work in your garden and travel the world. If you have 1 child, you get 1 year early retirement. If you have 2 children, you get normal retirement age. For every child after the second, you will have to work 2 years longer before you are allowed to retire. So if you have 10 children, be prepared to work until you're 80.

This idea doe not get children into trouble because parents cannot afford to raise them, like with the dumb UK idea.

The sad reality of it is that the benefits don't really go to the kids, or at least not to clothes and food for the kids. They get used for expensive TVs, holidays, brand new IPhones etc etc. And then the people have the audacity to complain that the government doesn't give them enough money to feed their kids. These are people that don't pay their rent themselves (and, often, don't pay rent at all since they take the money off the government and never give it to their landlord) so they don't even have that expense.

The second problem is that the people who have over about 4 children probably don't work and will never work. This will not harm them at all, it will only harm families who actually do work and therefore don't claim benefits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2017, 05:56:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2017, 03:08:44 am

That's a bad idea. I mean, it makes sense to want to stimulate having fewer children, in this overpopulated world, but by cutting benefits, you're hurting the children.

They should adopt my idea for that instead: Child-dependant retirement. You know, in all of the EU, people are grumbling about retirement age bing upped, and having to work until they are 67 or longer?

My proposal: If you have no children, you get 2 years early (government funded) retirement, so you can go work in your garden and travel the world. If you have 1 child, you get 1 year early retirement. If you have 2 children, you get normal retirement age. For every child after the second, you will have to work 2 years longer before you are allowed to retire. So if you have 10 children, be prepared to work until you're 80.

This idea doe not get children into trouble because parents cannot afford to raise them, like with the dumb UK idea.

This seems to be punishing the wrong people. Rather than penalise the people the people who chose to sacrifice their time, money, and health to participate in the continuation of our society it should be the people who selfishly chose to give no shits about that "our future" nonsense and decided that other people's children should have to support them when they grow old. I'd say the latter has earned a good +10 or +20 years before retirement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 05:01:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2017, 03:08:44 am

That's a bad idea. I mean, it makes sense to want to stimulate having fewer children, in this overpopulated world, but by cutting benefits, you're hurting the children.

They should adopt my idea for that instead: Child-dependant retirement. You know, in all of the EU, people are grumbling about retirement age bing upped, and having to work until they are 67 or longer?

My proposal: If you have no children, you get 2 years early (government funded) retirement, so you can go work in your garden and travel the world. If you have 1 child, you get 1 year early retirement. If you have 2 children, you get normal retirement age. For every child after the second, you will have to work 2 years longer before you are allowed to retire. So if you have 10 children, be prepared to work until you're 80.

This idea doe not get children into trouble because parents cannot afford to raise them, like with the dumb UK idea.

The sad reality of it is that the benefits don't really go to the kids, or at least not to clothes and food for the kids. They get used for expensive TVs, holidays, brand new IPhones etc etc. And then the people have the audacity to complain that the government doesn't give them enough money to feed their kids. These are people that don't pay their rent themselves (and, often, don't pay rent at all since they take the money off the government and never give it to their landlord) so they don't even have that expense.

The second problem is that the people who have over about 4 children probably don't work and will never work. This will not harm them at all, it will only harm families who actually do work and therefore don't claim benefits.

Uh... citation needed?

What evidence do you have that child benefits are going on expensive tvs et al? That the people who are doing this - and not people who actually need the benefit to feed their children - are then complaining benefits don't cover the costs they're meant for?

That housing benefit is being kept and not sent to the landlord? And then, of course, that the landlord is not then evicting said people.

Then that people with lots of kids don't work. And that families that do work don't claim benefits.

I think that about covers it.

I'll tell you why the rape clause is demeaning later when I have more time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 11, 2017, 07:03:30 am

The problem in the UK is that a lot of large poor working families rely heavily on them.

But there are also an increasing (but still relatively small) number of families who use it like free $$$, neglect (or dont actually have) the kids, and buy expensive stuff. The conservatives like to focus on this group because its outrageous and shameful that they often get away with it for so long, which gives them the public support necessary to carry out their actual objectives: cutting welfare for everyone, even the workers.

Hate £? vote Cutservative. A government that spends no money will surely be rolling in the dough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:11:52 am

You missed an n in there, min. Hohohohoho /dehumanize everyone you disagree with

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 07:59:27 am

I dont want to retire but I dont want to have 10 children either. What do?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 11, 2017, 08:03:37 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:11:52 am

You missed an n in there, min. Hohohohoho /dehumanize everyone you disagree with

Pretty sure he meant to spell it that way, still, lol.

Anyhoo, yeah, the problem that has to be solved (aside from the primary problem it's trying to solve) is 'how do you punish the ones misusing the benefits while not punishing those who don't misuse them'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2017, 08:16:22 am

I'm not sure about cutting them entirely, but to me it makes sense that child support should lessen for every child the more children you get. Sure, they all need the same amount of food and hygiene costs, but a lot of other stuff like clothes and equipment can be handed down as it is outgrown.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 07:59:27 am

I dont want to retire but I dont want to have 10 children either. What do?

Become an art gallerist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

What evidence do you have that child benefits are going on expensive tvs et al? That the people who are doing this - and not people who actually need the benefit to feed their children - are then complaining benefits don't cover the costs they're meant for?

A fuck tonne of personal anecdotal evidence. I'm from a very lower working class background from one of the poorest cities in the UK so don't give me this junk. Unless you're claiming there's no way they spend it on luxuries?

And that's ignoring the fact I've worked in retail before and had copious amounts of people come to me with HEALTHY START vouchers (https://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/) and spend them on alcohol, cigs and everything else under the sun. (Something I refused until I got told to let them spend them or get fired.)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

That housing benefit is being kept and not sent to the landlord? And then, of course, that the landlord is not then evicting said people.

Housing benefit getting paid to tenants (https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/what-youll-get):

Quote

How you’re paid
Housing Benefit is paid by your council as follows:

council tenants - into your rent account (you won’t receive the money)
private tenants - into your bank or building society account (rarely by cheque)

How long it takes to evict a tenant (https://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_assured_shorthold_tenants):

Quote

Section 8: mandatory grounds
If your landlord proves a mandatory ground, the court must order you to leave, usually in 14 days.

Ground 8 is the most commonly used mandatory ground. It's used if you have rent arrears of at least:

2 months if you pay rent monthly
8 weeks if you pay rent weekly

(This doesn't include having to move to the county court to get the eviction order or moving to the high court to get a high court bailiff to actually evict the person if they refuse to leave. So we're talking 2+ months for the most basic cases, even ignoring the fact that you can't be evicted before you've lived in a property for six months (https://www.gov.uk/private-renting-evictions/rules-your-landlord-must-follow).)

Oh, and three in four benefits tenants are now in arrears (http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/three-in-four-universal-credit-tenants-in-arrears/7015512.article) which isn't possible unless they aren't giving their rent to the landlord:

Quote

Social housing representative bodies are calling on the government to review Universal Credit as new research finds more than three-quarters of tenants are in rent arrears.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

Then that people with lots of kids don't work.

Closest I can find: (http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/indicators/topics/receiving-non-work-benefits/)

Quote

In 2015, 10,500 families in London were affected by the overall benefit cap, almost as many as in the rest of England put together. This includes 2,400 families losing more than £100 a week; 6,500 affected families had at least three children. When the cap is lowered to £23,000 those already affected will lose a further £58 a week and an additional 20,000 households in London will be capped.

Almost 65% of families in London affected by a benefits cap in the past (NOT the two child cap) have more than three kids.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

And that families that do work don't claim benefits.

Irrelevant, trying to make a false comparison.

I highly recommend giving up now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2017, 02:06:27 pm

The main suspect of the deed in Stockholm has plead guilty today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 11, 2017, 02:07:23 pm

There's apparently been an explosion in Dortmund? Borussias bus seems to have been there/the target. I have no idea what exactly is going on since I just heard my parents mentioned. Any of the German folk have more info on it?

Edit: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39572434

Three explosions apparently? Since it's in the sports section I'm guessing it's probably some fanboys fanboying a bit too hard with big ass firecrackers or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 02:13:52 pm

A spanish soccer player was hurt so, no, not a joke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 11, 2017, 02:17:18 pm

There's such a thing as taking a joke too far or it going wrong. Since they postponed the match to tommorrow I don't think they're considering it a huge threat, otherwise there'd probably be a cancellation or migration of it to somewhere they'd consider less dangerous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 11, 2017, 02:54:22 pm

Politico EU has an article for it, but it has pretty much identical info to BBC one. (http://www.politico.eu/article/blasts-near-borussia-dortmund-bus-wound-player/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

What evidence do you have that child benefits are going on expensive tvs et al? That the people who are doing this - and not people who actually need the benefit to feed their children - are then complaining benefits don't cover the costs they're meant for?

A fuck tonne of personal anecdotal evidence. I'm from a very lower working class background from one of the poorest cities in the UK so don't give me this junk. Unless you're claiming there's no way they spend it on luxuries?

I made no such claim. You made the claim that the benefits received go on these luxuries.

In my very personal experience, the child benefits my mum received were not spent on luxuries. Whose personal experience is more right? This is why I asked for citations. There's less emotional attachment to it, it's more evidence-based so that things can be refuted or argued, and it can be discussed without either of us going "well your experience is fucking wrong, mate" :P

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

And that's ignoring the fact I've worked in retail before and had copious amounts of people come to me with HEALTHY START vouchers (https://www.healthystart.nhs.uk/) and spend them on alcohol, cigs and everything else under the sun. (Something I refused until I got told to let them spend them or get fired.)

I also worked in retail and was told specifically not to accept healthy start vouchers unless they were for the things they were meant for. I was working for one of the big four, though.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

That housing benefit is being kept and not sent to the landlord? And then, of course, that the landlord is not then evicting said people.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Housing benefit getting paid to tenants (https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/what-youll-get):

Quote

How you’re paid
Housing Benefit is paid by your council as follows:

council tenants - into your rent account (you won’t receive the money)
private tenants - into your bank or building society account (rarely by cheque)

That's how the benefit is paid. This provides no evidence for landlords not receiving rent, which seems it would only ever affect a private landlord.

Some government research (http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN07008) (the link to the full report is at the bottom, it's a pdf) from last year says that the proportion of private landlords unwilling to rent to housing benefit recipients is quite large. About the only time they are willing to rent to them is when they don't have a choice.

Note in section 2.1 that housing benefit will be paid directly to a private landlord when the tenant is in arrears for 8 weeks, are unlikely to pay their rent, or if they are unable to manage their own finances.

Part of the research found that private landlords were evicting people purely on the basis that they were receiving housing benefits, as the changes the Tory government were enacting (the four year freeze on the Local Housing Allowance being a big one for that) made them uncertain about future income streams.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

How long it takes to evict a tenant (https://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_assured_shorthold_tenants):

Quote

Section 8: mandatory grounds
If your landlord proves a mandatory ground, the court must order you to leave, usually in 14 days.

Ground 8 is the most commonly used mandatory ground. It's used if you have rent arrears of at least:

2 months if you pay rent monthly
8 weeks if you pay rent weekly

(This doesn't include having to move to the county court to get the eviction order or moving to the high court to get a high court bailiff to actually evict the person if they refuse to leave. So we're talking 2+ months for the most basic cases, even ignoring the fact that you can't be evicted before you've lived in a property for six months (https://www.gov.uk/private-renting-evictions/rules-your-landlord-must-follow).)

My point was that a troublesome tenant can be evicted. It takes a long-ass time, yes, I will accept that, but they can still be punted.

Here's a guide (http://www.primelocation.com/discover/renting/a-renters-guide-advice-for-tenants/#Gv32V0T2s7sIG11l.97) to the process a letting agency will go through prior to letting a property.

To be fair, I'm only really interested in the first bit: references. Basically, you're going to be asked to show that you're going to be able to pay your rent. Asking a previous landlord if there were issues, doing a credit check, asking for bank details, and then employment details to make sure you have an income.

If any issues arise with these checks, they will ask for a guarantor. This is a person who will be legally responsible for paying your rent if you don't.

Essentially, a private landlord who gets into a situation in which someone won't (and I would like very much to stress that this is separate from someone who can't) pay rent is probably an idiot. Even if they are an idiot, they can still evict someone from their property, and rent it to someone else, hopefully having learned something from the experience.

[personal aside] Presumably advertising in a "no Irish allowed" manner and saying they don't want benefits recipients, because that's not discriminatory, apparently. [/personal aside]

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Oh, and three in four benefits tenants are now in arrears (http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/three-in-four-universal-credit-tenants-in-arrears/7015512.article) which isn't possible unless they aren't giving their rent to the landlord:

Quote

Social housing representative bodies are calling on the government to review Universal Credit as new research finds more than three-quarters of tenants are in rent arrears.

That's a headline and a sub-headline, unless I register for the article.

According to these guys (http://www.secureemptyproperty.com/three-four-universal-credit-tenants-arrears/) who source the article, these people are in arrears mostly because of the way the Universal Credit is paid:

Quote

All respondents said the six-week period before a tenant receives their first UC payment is “very frequently or frequently a factor in claimants falling into arrears”.

The guys who did the report also think that these people don't have enough savings (including from their last pay cheque) to cover the cost during that time.

Basically, these people are in arrears because they can't pay, not because they won't.

Further, they also note that demand for money advice services, food banks, and hardship funds has increased in the areas they were surveying, as well as the surveyed saying that these tenants are using loan sharks pay day loan services to fund the shortfall.

In other words, they're putting themselves in greater financial difficulty in order to pay the bills that they can't otherwise pay.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

Then that people with lots of kids don't work.

Closest I can find: (http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/indicators/topics/receiving-non-work-benefits/)

Quote

In 2015, 10,500 families in London were affected by the overall benefit cap, almost as many as in the rest of England put together. This includes 2,400 families losing more than £100 a week; 6,500 affected families had at least three children. When the cap is lowered to £23,000 those already affected will lose a further £58 a week and an additional 20,000 households in London will be capped.

Almost 65% of families in London affected by a benefits cap in the past (NOT the two child cap) have more than three kids.

That doesn't say whether or not the affected families were working, though.

Spoiler: another personal aside (click to show/hide)

Quote

Further welfare changes were announced in the 2015 Summer Budget. Some (such as limiting child tax credits to the first two children) will only apply to new claimants. But other cuts will make individual families materially worse off than they are now. In particular:

• freezing the value of benefits for four years (except certain disability and pensioner
  benefits);
• lowering the overall benefit cap to £23,000 per year in London;
• lowering tax credits for households whose gross earnings exceed £3,850 a year.

Like... wow.

Anyway, Google found this:

Office of National Statistics on working/workless families between October and December 2016 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/workingandworklesshouseholds/octtodec2016#children-living-in-workless-households-is-at-its-lowest-level-since-comparable-records-began).

I linked it to the part I found most interesting:

Quote

The number of children living in workless households decreased by 145,000 or 1.3 percentage points compared with the previous year to 1.3 million or 10.7% of all children, the lowest level since comparable records began. The percentage of children living in working households was at a record high of 58.3%, an increase of 2.0 percentage points over the past year.

Obviously this doesn't say whether or not these folks are receiving benefits, but there are more children in working families now (or at least a few months ago) than has ever been recorded.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 06:49:48 am

And that families that do work don't claim benefits.

Irrelevant, trying to make a false comparison.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

The second problem is that the people who have over about 4 children probably don't work and will never work. This will not harm them at all, it will only harm families who actually do work and therefore don't claim benefits.

You made the comparison.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 09:26:48 am

I highly recommend giving up now.

Why are you so certain that your position is correct and that mine is not? I am genuinely curious to know the answer to this, even if you ignore the rest of the post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

In my very personal experience, the child benefits my mum received were not spent on luxuries. Whose personal experience is more right? This is why I asked for citations. There's less emotional attachment to it, it's more evidence-based so that things can be refuted or argued, and it can be discussed without either of us going "well your experience is fucking wrong, mate" :P

So you didn't have a TV or anything else? You never went out for food? You never had anything that could be considered a luxury? No toys or anything else?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

I also worked in retail and was told specifically not to accept healthy start vouchers unless they were for the things they were meant for. I was working for one of the big four, though.

If you were told not to accept them, then the people who have them must've tried to spend them on the things they weren't meant for. Therefore, using a welfare state benefit for something other than their kids. :^)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That's how the benefit is paid. This provides no evidence for landlords not receiving rent, which seems it would only ever affect a private landlord.

Again, evidence further down, was just showing that people receive the rent money, instead of landlords receiving it directly.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Some government research (http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN07008) (the link to the full report is at the bottom, it's a pdf) from last year says that the proportion of private landlords unwilling to rent to housing benefit recipients is quite large. About the only time they are willing to rent to them is when they don't have a choice.

It's really odd that landlords don't want to rent to people who they have a high chance of never receiving rent off, isn't it?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Note in section 2.1 that housing benefit will be paid directly to a private landlord when the tenant is in arrears for 8 weeks, are unlikely to pay their rent, or if they are unable to manage their own finances.

LHA (Local Housing Allowance) =/= UC (Universal Credit). Two different things. As far as I can tell, you can only claim on LHA, not on UC.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Part of the research found that private landlords were evicting people purely on the basis that they were receiving housing benefits, as the changes the Tory government were enacting (the four year freeze on the Local Housing Allowance being a big one for that) made them uncertain about future income streams.

And what's wrong with that, exactly? If I say I'm going to give you £10 a month to live in your house, are you required to rent to me?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

My point was that a troublesome tenant can be evicted. It takes a long-ass time, yes, I will accept that, but they can still be punted.

At which point the landlord is thousands out of pocket on something they're probably also paying a mortgage on (although I disagree with buy to let schemes...).

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Here's a guide (http://www.primelocation.com/discover/renting/a-renters-guide-advice-for-tenants/#Gv32V0T2s7sIG11l.97) to the process a letting agency will go through prior to letting a property.

To be fair, I'm only really interested in the first bit: references. Basically, you're going to be asked to show that you're going to be able to pay your rent. Asking a previous landlord if there were issues, doing a credit check, asking for bank details, and then employment details to make sure you have an income.

If any issues arise with these checks, they will ask for a guarantor. This is a person who will be legally responsible for paying your rent if you don't.

Essentially, a private landlord who gets into a situation in which someone won't (and I would like very much to stress that this is separate from someone who can't) pay rent is probably an idiot. Even if they are an idiot, they can still evict someone from their property, and rent it to someone else, hopefully having learned something from the experience.

I've moved property several times and never been asked for a landlord reference. Maybe it's a southern thing.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Presumably advertising in a "no Irish allowed" manner and saying they don't want benefits recipients, because that's not discriminatory, apparently.

You're not born a benefits claimant. ::)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That's a headline and a sub-headline, unless I register for the article.

According to these guys (http://www.secureemptyproperty.com/three-four-universal-credit-tenants-arrears/) who source the article, these people are in arrears mostly because of the way the Universal Credit is paid:

Quote

All respondents said the six-week period before a tenant receives their first UC payment is “very frequently or frequently a factor in claimants falling into arrears”.

The guys who did the report also think that these people don't have enough savings (including from their last pay cheque) to cover the cost during that time.

Basically, these people are in arrears because they can't pay, not because they won't.

UC is back-paid so it's horseshit. You get all the rent money once you've claimed so you're able to pay it back.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Further, they also note that demand for money advice services, food banks, and hardship funds has increased in the areas they were surveying, as well as the surveyed saying that these tenants are using loan sharks pay day loan services to fund the shortfall.

In other words, they're putting themselves in greater financial difficulty in order to pay the bills that they can't otherwise pay.

Or mismanaging their cash on miscellaneous expenses.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That doesn't say whether or not the affected families were working, though.

It doesn't, but it shows the majority of high-benefits households are also high-kids. Only 10% of British households have more than three kids so it's definitely statistically significant.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Anyway, Google found this:

Office of National Statistics on working/workless families between October and December 2016 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/workingandworklesshouseholds/octtodec2016#children-living-in-workless-households-is-at-its-lowest-level-since-comparable-records-began).

I linked it to the part I found most interesting:

Quote

The number of children living in workless households decreased by 145,000 or 1.3 percentage points compared with the previous year to 1.3 million or 10.7% of all children, the lowest level since comparable records began. The percentage of children living in working households was at a record high of 58.3%, an increase of 2.0 percentage points over the past year.

Obviously this doesn't say whether or not these folks are receiving benefits, but there are more children in working families now (or at least a few months ago) than has ever been recorded.

Doesn't that suggest that the Conservative anti-benefits policies are working in terms of getting people into the workforce, then? :^)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

You made the comparison.

Less benefits, if you prefer.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Why are you so certain that your position is correct and that mine is not? I am genuinely curious to know the answer to this, even if you ignore the rest of the post.

Because I've lived in this situation with enough of these people for long enough to know that their woes are overwhelmingly self inflicted. If you're dirt poor in modern England you've made a mess of your life and only you can fix that for yourself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 06:10:28 pm

You keep using anecdotal evidence and circular arguments. That... doesnt really make a good case

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:11:51 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 06:10:28 pm

You keep using anecdotal evidence and circular arguments. That... doesnt really make a good case

Yeah a bunch of links to government websites is anecdotal evidence and circular arguments.

ok

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 06:23:16 pm

Links? You ranted over and over about being raised in the streets and therefore being the one and only entitled to have an opinion on goverment  benefits and immigration. Seriously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

In my very personal experience, the child benefits my mum received were not spent on luxuries. Whose personal experience is more right? This is why I asked for citations. There's less emotional attachment to it, it's more evidence-based so that things can be refuted or argued, and it can be discussed without either of us going "well your experience is fucking wrong, mate" :P

So you didn't have a TV or anything else? You never went out for food? You never had anything that could be considered a luxury? No toys or anything else?

Like I said, "well your experience is fucking wrong, mate"

Though you must've had quite the Spartan upbringing if you think toys and a TV were a luxury.

If you must know, McDonalds was a couple of times a year treat.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

I also worked in retail and was told specifically not to accept healthy start vouchers unless they were for the things they were meant for. I was working for one of the big four, though.

If you were told not to accept them, then the people who have them must've tried to spend them on the things they weren't meant for. Therefore, using a welfare state benefit for something other than their kids. :^)

Or I was being told for what the healthy start vouchers were to be used, so I knew how to ring it up on the till. It speaks well of your position that you need to resort to twisting arguments to suit it.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That's how the benefit is paid. This provides no evidence for landlords not receiving rent, which seems it would only ever affect a private landlord.

Again, evidence further down, was just showing that people receive the rent money, instead of landlords receiving it directly.

What's your point?

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Some government research (http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN07008) (the link to the full report is at the bottom, it's a pdf) from last year says that the proportion of private landlords unwilling to rent to housing benefit recipients is quite large. About the only time they are willing to rent to them is when they don't have a choice.

It's really odd that landlords don't want to rent to people who they have a high chance of never receiving rent off, isn't it?

Not really; the banks lending them money to buy their renting properties set out in the conditions for those loans that they can't rent to someone they know is on housing benefits. Banks don't give a shit for the average person.

The fact that the way the benefits were changing not being very clear so they were unsure what was going on also had a pretty significant impact on their decision.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Note in section 2.1 that housing benefit will be paid directly to a private landlord when the tenant is in arrears for 8 weeks, are unlikely to pay their rent, or if they are unable to manage their own finances.

LHA (Local Housing Allowance) =/= UC (Universal Credit). Two different things. As far as I can tell, you can only claim on LHA, not on UC.

And? We were discussing LHA. Are you trying to gaslight?

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Part of the research found that private landlords were evicting people purely on the basis that they were receiving housing benefits, as the changes the Tory government were enacting (the four year freeze on the Local Housing Allowance being a big one for that) made them uncertain about future income streams.

And what's wrong with that, exactly? If I say I'm going to give you £10 a month to live in your house, are you required to rent to me?

What's wrong wi..! How is it not wrong to make someone homeless purely on the basis that they're less profitable than some other Joe on the street?

I think if you've already agreed a contract with someone, regardless whether it's month-to-month you shouldn't be allowed to tear it up just because you can't charge them as much as someone else.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

My point was that a troublesome tenant can be evicted. It takes a long-ass time, yes, I will accept that, but they can still be punted.

At which point the landlord is thousands out of pocket on something they're probably also paying a mortgage on (although I disagree with buy to let schemes...).

Then they should've done their due diligence then, eh? It's not hard to find out if someone has the ability to pay. Like I said, there can be a guarantor, which I had to get for my first rental.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Here's a guide (http://www.primelocation.com/discover/renting/a-renters-guide-advice-for-tenants/#Gv32V0T2s7sIG11l.97) to the process a letting agency will go through prior to letting a property.

To be fair, I'm only really interested in the first bit: references. Basically, you're going to be asked to show that you're going to be able to pay your rent. Asking a previous landlord if there were issues, doing a credit check, asking for bank details, and then employment details to make sure you have an income.

If any issues arise with these checks, they will ask for a guarantor. This is a person who will be legally responsible for paying your rent if you don't.

Essentially, a private landlord who gets into a situation in which someone won't (and I would like very much to stress that this is separate from someone who can't) pay rent is probably an idiot. Even if they are an idiot, they can still evict someone from their property, and rent it to someone else, hopefully having learned something from the experience.

I've moved property several times and never been asked for a landlord reference. Maybe it's a southern thing.

There was also a credit check, an employment check, and making sure you have a bank account mentioned.

I shudder to think what kinds of places you were living in if you didn't get anything like that.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Presumably advertising in a "no Irish allowed" manner and saying they don't want benefits recipients, because that's not discriminatory, apparently.

You're not born a benefits claimant. ::)

No, you're not. Yet you seem to think that someone growing up in a workless household will become workless when they reach adulthood.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That's a headline and a sub-headline, unless I register for the article.

According to these guys (http://www.secureemptyproperty.com/three-four-universal-credit-tenants-arrears/) who source the article, these people are in arrears mostly because of the way the Universal Credit is paid:

Quote

All respondents said the six-week period before a tenant receives their first UC payment is “very frequently or frequently a factor in claimants falling into arrears”.

The guys who did the report also think that these people don't have enough savings (including from their last pay cheque) to cover the cost during that time.

Basically, these people are in arrears because they can't pay, not because they won't.

UC is back-paid so it's horseshit. You get all the rent money once you've claimed so you're able to pay it back.

You get the money once they've processed your claim. Which takes 6 weeks.

I mean if you're applying for UC, chances are you don't have much cash in the first place, otherwise why would you claim it?

What are they supposed to do in the mean time?

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Further, they also note that demand for money advice services, food banks, and hardship funds has increased in the areas they were surveying, as well as the surveyed saying that these tenants are using loan sharks pay day loan services to fund the shortfall.

In other words, they're putting themselves in greater financial difficulty in order to pay the bills that they can't otherwise pay.

Or mismanaging their cash on miscellaneous expenses.

Miscellaneous expenses like having a place to live, you mean?

To what miscellaneous expenses do you refer? Are all benefit recipients incapable of basic accounting?

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

That doesn't say whether or not the affected families were working, though.

It doesn't, but it shows the majority of high-benefits households are also high-kids. Only 10% of British households have more than three kids so it's definitely statistically significant.

Where does it say that?

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Anyway, Google found this:
Office of National Statistics on working/workless families between October and December 2016 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/workingandworklesshouseholds/octtodec2016#children-living-in-workless-households-is-at-its-lowest-level-since-comparable-records-began).

I linked it to the part I found most interesting:

Quote

The number of children living in workless households decreased by 145,000 or 1.3 percentage points compared with the previous year to 1.3 million or 10.7% of all children, the lowest level since comparable records began. The percentage of children living in working households was at a record high of 58.3%, an increase of 2.0 percentage points over the past year.

Obviously this doesn't say whether or not these folks are receiving benefits, but there are more children in working families now (or at least a few months ago) than has ever been recorded.

Doesn't that suggest that the Conservative anti-benefits policies are working in terms of getting people into the workforce, then? :^)

Oh, of course.

Then again, if wages are so low that working families are the new poor (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/working-families-are-the-new-poor-says-britainsleading-economic/), it doesn't rightly matter if you work or not.

Record numbers of working families with children, and two out of three of them are living in poverty. Those Tory policies are a godsend.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

You made the comparison.

Less benefits, if you prefer.

Citations.

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 11, 2017, 06:05:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 04:06:09 pm

Why are you so certain that your position is correct and that mine is not? I am genuinely curious to know the answer to this, even if you ignore the rest of the post.

Because I've lived in this situation with enough of these people for long enough to know that their woes are overwhelmingly self inflicted. If you're dirt poor in modern England you've made a mess of your life and only you can fix that for yourself.

Of course.

Never mind that there was a recession a few years back, causing unemployment levels not seen for decades, that wages for the lower classes are just now getting back to pre-recession levels. Never mind that the government for the past 7 years has been cutting spending like it's going out of fashion, that they think being in the black is going to fix all the problems that exist in Britain, in doing so reducing that social safety net that exists precisely to help people out when the world goes tits up, like after a financial crash. Never mind that they increased tuition fees so that it's even more expensive for a poor person to get an education to improve their life chances, and the chances of any sprogs they generate.

These people are in the situation they're in because they don't work hard enough. Righto.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on April 11, 2017, 11:17:40 pm

Is this the wall we were promised between America and Britain? Oh, wait no, it's just the Great Wall of Text. Carry on then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LethalShade on April 12, 2017, 12:04:58 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Like I said, "well your experience is fucking wrong, mate"

Just dropping my non-brit two cents there. There is no such thing as a wrong experience. He's either lying (I don't really think he is) or misinterpreting/extrapolating wrongly from his experience. He didn't live a "wrong experience".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 12:20:22 am

No, no, or pretty sure there can be, even if you're throwing out the common usage of the term. Probably involve some sort of hallucination or memory modification, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 02:35:12 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2017, 06:23:16 pm

Links? You ranted over and over about being raised in the streets and therefore being the one and only entitled to have an opinion on goverment  benefits and immigration. Seriously.

Did you read my last post or did you just want to shout for no reason? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7419614#msg7419614)

I mean, you're miles away from anything i'm saying but have fun!

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Though you must've had quite the Spartan upbringing if you think toys and a TV were a luxury.

If you must know, McDonalds was a couple of times a year treat.

Yes, they are a luxury. You don't need them to survive. Understand that is the definition of a luxury: Something inessential that you want.

No, I didn't live that barebones of an upbringing because we were able to afford luxuries, even in a house where my only parent was a single Mum working as a cleaner who got a bunch of the child care benefits. We had internet, a computer, toys, games, consoles etc etc. Because we were able to afford luxuries at the lowest level of wage possible.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Or I was being told for what the healthy start vouchers were to be used, so I knew how to ring it up on the till. It speaks well of your position that you need to resort to twisting arguments to suit it.

I didn't twist anything and we both know it. Just because I pointed the flaw in what you were saying doesn't mean I twisted it.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

What's your point?

It's called establishing points. I set out facts I feel will be relevant later on. You don't see how rent benefits being paid to the tenant instead of the landlord is relevant?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Not really; the banks lending them money to buy their renting properties set out in the conditions for those loans that they can't rent to someone they know is on housing benefits. Banks don't give a shit for the average person.

The fact that the way the benefits were changing not being very clear so they were unsure what was going on also had a pretty significant impact on their decision.

Even then: Why should the banks risk not getting a return on their money? You know that's how the housing market crashed last time, right? What do you want banks to do "Oh, you HAVE to rent to people on benefits even if you don't end up getting enough money to pay your mortgage and go into hardship yourself"?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

And? We were discussing LHA. Are you trying to gaslight?

LHA has been rolled into UC since like October of 2015. UC's rules are different to LHA's (it's a mixed benefits income so that it's supposedly harder to cheat the system). From what I understand of it, UC can't be paid to the landlord because it's mixed benefits, so there's dole, sickpay etc etc.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

What's wrong wi..! How is it not wrong to make someone homeless purely on the basis that they're less profitable than some other Joe on the street?

I think if you've already agreed a contract with someone, regardless whether it's month-to-month you shouldn't be allowed to tear it up just because you can't charge them as much as someone else.

Because that's how the world works.

You think that but:
1. It's not the case.
2. You only think that because you don't own a property.
3. You don't have a right to live in someone else's house.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Then they should've done their due diligence then, eh? It's not hard to find out if someone has the ability to pay. Like I said, there can be a guarantor, which I had to get for my first rental.

OR they could just not rent to welfare tenants and have a much lower chance of getting a problem, huh?

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

There was also a credit check, an employment check, and making sure you have a bank account mentioned.

I shudder to think what kinds of places you were living in if you didn't get anything like that.

Oh, sure, credit checks etc are pretty standard. This is all besides the point, though.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

No, you're not. Yet you seem to think that someone growing up in a workless household will become workless when they reach adulthood.

From my experience, pretty much the case. Still, you're not born it, you're raised it. Why should you work when you've seen your parents live comfortably for years without working?

Oh, and this study confirms it that you're twice as likely to end up workless if you're in a workless household. (http://calls.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/PopTrends06_tcm77-161608.pdf)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

You get the money once they've processed your claim. Which takes 6 weeks.

I mean if you're applying for UC, chances are you don't have much cash in the first place, otherwise why would you claim it?

What are they supposed to do in the mean time?

You get backpay on it. So you'll end up with that 6 weeks back and able to pay your landlord the difference.

You say: "Landlord I've gone onto benefits but it'll take up to 6 weeks can I pay it to you then?"
And because your landlord likes money he says: "Yes."

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Miscellaneous expenses like having a place to live, you mean?

To what miscellaneous expenses do you refer? Are all benefit recipients incapable of basic accounting?

Miscellaneous expenses like brand new phones, brand new TVs, games consoles etc etc.

And, yeah, they are.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Where does it say that?

Did you not pass your maths GCSE?

If 65% of people who were hit with a benefits cap (as in, cap on maximum benefits claimable) had three or more kids and only 10% of the British population has three or more kids then we can say it's statistically significant and that high benefits households have a high amount of children.

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Oh, of course.

Then again, if wages are so low that working families are the new poor (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/working-families-are-the-new-poor-says-britainsleading-economic/), it doesn't rightly matter if you work or not.

Record numbers of working families with children, and two out of three of them are living in poverty. Those Tory policies are a godsend.

This is the result of the government paying for housing. Landlords set the base rent on ANY house to £400 due to the fact they can claim that off the government at any point by allowing a benefits tenant in. This has priced working class people out.

(Nevermind that working class people have the same luxuries problem as benefits scroungers, but that's beside the point.)

Quote from: hector13 on April 11, 2017, 07:36:58 pm

Of course.

Never mind that there was a recession a few years back, causing unemployment levels not seen for decades, that wages for the lower classes are just now getting back to pre-recession levels. Never mind that the government for the past 7 years has been cutting spending like it's going out of fashion, that they think being in the black is going to fix all the problems that exist in Britain, in doing so reducing that social safety net that exists precisely to help people out when the world goes tits up, like after a financial crash. Never mind that they increased tuition fees so that it's even more expensive for a poor person to get an education to improve their life chances, and the chances of any sprogs they generate.

These people are in the situation they're in because they don't work hard enough. Righto.

Yeah, that is the case. Get a STEM degree ("OH THEY'RE RAISING TUITION" - Yeah but you'll never pay it back anyway) or a trade and you can be comfortable by the time you're 30 and relatively rich by the time you're 40. Just don't do an "apprenticeship" in a call centre or a degree in feminist dance theory and you'll be fine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 12, 2017, 03:49:13 am

All my mum's friends from university did STEM degrees and they all work low-paid jobs unrelated to their fields because there were no openings.

Except the rocket scientist. I guess he did pretty well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 04:21:15 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 12, 2017, 03:49:13 am

All my mum's friends from university did STEM degrees and they all work low-paid jobs unrelated to their fields because there were no openings.

Except the rocket scientist. I guess he did pretty well.

I guess it depends on STEM. If you do something hyperspecialised that no one actually wants (ie. forensic science) then you're not gonna get a job. Equally, you can do a hyperspecialised art degree (CAD art) and get a lot of work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 05:55:59 am

... or you can not, because sometimes the jobs just aren't there. Oddly enough, a STEM degree, even a relatively high value one, is not a guarantee of work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 06:11:03 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 05:55:59 am

... or you can not, because sometimes the jobs just aren't there. Oddly enough, a STEM degree, even a relatively high value one, is not a guarantee of work.

I have my doubts regarding that. If you're a programmer in the UK who can't find work then you're just not looking hard enough or you're not willing to make concessions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 06:19:13 am

I mean... you can doubt all you like. That doesn't make that doubt accurate. Fact of the matter it's been a good few years now since STEM training meant a roughly 100% chance you were going to find work. It's still one of the most valuable areas regarding work availability, but some people get fucked all the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 06:26:52 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 06:19:13 am

I mean... you can doubt all you like. That doesn't make that doubt accurate. Fact of the matter it's been a good few years now since STEM training meant a roughly 100% chance you were going to find work. It's still one of the most valuable areas regarding work availability, but some people get fucked all the same.

I go to a pretty second rate university and on Software Engineering there's a 100% employment rate after leaving university:

Quote

100% of our graduates from this course go on to work and/or further study within six months of graduating (DLHE survey).

Previous graduates from courses in this subject area have gone on to work in a variety of roles such as analyst programmer, computing support manager, technical account manager, software engineer, channel networking specialist, technologist, IT manager, solution consultant, business development executive and account technical lead in organisations including Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Vodafone, Oracle and HSBC.

Additionally, you may gain skills that are transferable to other industries and may be able to pursue any career that requires a good honours degree. You could go on to further study and the University has many options available for postgraduate study (including postgraduate teacher training) and research which may interest you.

So don't give me that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 12, 2017, 06:45:17 am

So you're the rule then? Everyone's experience is going to be exactly the same as your own? Even people who are doing vastly different things?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 06:46:36 am

Yeeaaaah, you're actually trusting a university's self-reported employment rate, shub. If you paid a single iota of attention to anything regarding that over the last decade or so, you'd know that's not trust well placed. You can bet yourself a nice drink that 100% does not mean 100% employment in a STEM field (in fact, precisely what you quoted gave a nice bit of fluffery lying about exactly what that can entail), or 100% lack of underemployment (i.e.  what doris was talking about), or 100% consistent employment, either. Assuming the 100% isn't a straight up lie, anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 07:15:25 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 12, 2017, 06:45:17 am

So you're the rule then? Everyone's experience is going to be exactly the same as your own? Even people who are doing vastly different things?

 ::)

Maybe people should work on solving their problems instead of complaining about them.

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 06:46:36 am

Yeeaaaah, you're actually trusting a university's self-reported employment rate, shub. If you paid a single iota of attention to anything regarding that over the last decade or so, you'd know that's not trust well placed. You can bet yourself a nice drink that 100% does not mean 100% employment in a STEM field (in fact, precisely what you quoted gave a nice bit of fluffery lying about exactly what that can entail), or 100% lack of underemployment (i.e.  what doris was talking about), or 100% consistent employment, either. Assuming the 100% isn't a straight up lie, anyway.

DLHE isn't self reported, it's reported on the Unistats website by an independent third party.

As an example of a random Software Engineering course (https://unistats.direct.gov.uk/subjects/employment/10007148FT-00000171/ReturnTo/Course-assistant-results):

Quote

Most common jobs
These are the most common job types students do six months after finishing the course.
Information technology and telecommunications professionals   80%
Business, research and administrative professionals   10%
Science, engineering and technology associate professionals   10%

So that's 80% of people have gone into a topic that is directly related to their field, whereas the other 20% have gone into professional roles in other related fields.

From a second rate university.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 07:32:56 am

... and you're still insistently showing you have little to no idea how the workforce operates, these days. Notice how conspicuously exactly what positions were involved is lacking, or hours, various benefit etc. related stuff, so on, so forth.

Also, did you happen to check what those figures were measuring? I'll save you a little time: That was the data from 10 students, over two years. In the statistics field that's what you call "complete bullshit".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2017, 07:34:10 am

I'm not really interested in what those students do 6 months after their studies. We live in a world of cheap, replacable temporary workforce. All hail outsourced labour.

It's a well known trick all kinds of commercial suppliers of education (let's just call them that) pull off. They have a deal with employment agencies. They supply freshly graduated students, and as a reward they can juggle numbers about 'all our students get a job after graduation'. While in reality, a large part of those students are out of a job a few months later, because there's fresh students to replace them that are cheaper, and in most EU countries, law forbids companies from hiring someone on a temporary basis for longer than (x) months. Over here in the Netherlands, I think it's 18 months, not sure, could be 30 as well. Either one and a half, or two and a half years.

I'd be much more interested to see how many of those students have a job, and in which profession, after say, 5 or 10 years.

It's easy for you to say that people should work on fixing their problems instead of complaining. Sometimes there's just jack shit you can do about your situation. Full employment / no unemployment is a myth, has been unattainable for a while now, and will only become more unattainable over time, due to automatization and outsourcing production.
Or how about partially disabled people (for lack of a better term)? You think there's a queue of employers fussing about who gets to hire them first?
Any politician who promises full employment is either a liar, or a sadist planning on creating North Korea style work camps for the unemployed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 07:52:12 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 07:32:56 am

... and you're still insistently showing you have little to no idea how the workforce operates, these days. Notice how conspicuously exactly what positions were involved is lacking, or hours, various benefit etc. related stuff, so on, so forth.

Also, did you happen to check what those figures were measuring? I'll save you a little time: That was the data from 10 students, over two years. In the statistics field that's what you call "complete bullshit".

How about you find statistics to prove me wrong then? :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:06:32 am

Sho', man. (https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/students/graduate-employment) Not on a spreadsheet capable device right now (and other places to be besides) so I can't dig through and point out the specific bits you'd want to be looking at, but you can scrum around and check the breakdowns and more nuanced stuff yourself. You'll be happy to find unemployment rates cheerfully existing in the fields you're talking about and underemployment loitering around, too, and a larger range of data (both over time and in regards to students checked) than the useless crap that independent third party was pandering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 08:20:31 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:06:32 am

Sho', man. (https://www.hesa.ac.uk/data-and-analysis/students/graduate-employment) Not on a spreadsheet capable device right now (and other places to be besides) so I can't dig through and point out the specific bits you'd want to be looking at, but you can scrum around and check the breakdowns and more nuanced stuff yourself. You'll be happy to find unemployment rates cheerfully existing in the fields you're talking about and underemployment loitering around, too, and a larger range of data (both over time and in regards to students checked) than the useless crap that independent third party was pandering.

Have you checked out any of the statistics from the sites you're linking or what their methodology is?

As an example: What 2014/15 graduates did next (https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/21-07-2016/graduate-destinations)

Quote

76% of all survey respondents were in employment. Of these employed leavers 59% were on permanent or open-ended contracts while 25% were on fixed-term contracts. 4% of employed leavers were self-employed, 3% were on zero-hours contracts, 2% on internships, and 1% were starting up their own business.

Now that would suggest that 24% were unemployed, but that's not the case because if you scroll down there's a chart that shows that only 4.6% are unemployed (keeping in mind this is NOT just STEM):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/UIuhqSq.png)

Wouldn't it have made more sense to say "95% of all survey respondents are in employment or continuing education"?

The representation of the data (especially in table form) is awful, only matched by how they represent it in text. There's no way to interrogate it for meaningful assessments. They count being in study as being unemployed, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

TL;DR: Those statistics are a joke.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:31:01 am

You might want to actually dig through the data -- which does, in fact, have subject specific stuff in it -- instead of dismissing it in favor of something that thought data points on ten students over two years mushed together meant sod all. Or maybe you don't, I'unno. You do you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 08:36:20 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:31:01 am

You might want to actually dig through the data -- which does, in fact, have subject specific stuff in it -- instead of dismissing it in favor of something that thought data points on ten students over two years mushed together meant sod all. Or maybe you don't, I'unno. You do you.

So you're saying 5% unemployment across ALL disciplines is too high?

They don't even report unemployment versus education except in that graph.

Did you just link a random website that you thought agreed with you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:45:36 am

I linked one presuming you'd be able and willing to open and parse spreadsheet files, at least. Probably should remember that's asking a lot of people, some days :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 08:50:11 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 08:45:36 am

I linked one presuming you'd be able and willing to open and parse spreadsheet files, at least. Probably should remember that's asking a lot of people, some days :-\

So you didn't look at the statistics at all, then.

The statistics site you linked claims that there's a 20% "unemployment rate" across all disciplines and 10% in computing. If you then dig deeper it just turns out that they lump "continuing education" in with "unemployed" which is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, and not looking for work is ALSO unemployed which is also ridiculous.

The spreadsheets don't separate out the various types of employment / unemployment, they just lump it into "employed" or "unemployed".

But, hey, don't worry about it. Double down and claim that I'm the one who didn't look at the site that you linked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 09:11:23 am

Mate, you're the one doubling down on claiming even that much isn't enough to prove you wrong. You were rolling with the position that the employment rates that uni was giving was representative of the field. Given how impeccably shit the data used to calculate those rates was, all it takes is a >0.00% unemployment rate to give you plain information that what that university used was either wrong or a notable statistical outlier, and even if you take the time to separate out the ones still in school, you end up over that. So... yeah. If you're going to be making a claim like that, you might want something better than those unistats numbers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 12, 2017, 01:37:11 pm

Quote from: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 09:11:23 am

Mate, you're the one doubling down on claiming even that much isn't enough to prove you wrong. You were rolling with the position that the employment rates that uni was giving was representative of the field. Given how impeccably shit the data used to calculate those rates was, all it takes is a >0.00% unemployment rate to give you plain information that what that university used was either wrong or a notable statistical outlier, and even if you take the time to separate out the ones still in school, you end up over that. So... yeah. If you're going to be making a claim like that, you might want something better than those unistats numbers.

Are you reading what I am typing?

Let me ask you some simple questions:
1. Is continuing education the same as being unemployed?
2. Is not looking for work the same as being unemployed?
3. Would you say STEM degrees have a lower rate of unemployment than the general population?

Just answer those.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2017, 01:39:22 pm

Guys, this is going nowhere. Please continue your prolongued arguments in PM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 12, 2017, 01:51:46 pm

Eh, sure. Wasn't particularly interested in chasing goalposts anyway, tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 12, 2017, 03:44:50 pm

Melenchon is rising quite rapidly in polls, while Hamon is nose-diving:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OfL2WXgAE3DLE.jpg)

As a reminder, Melenchon is anti-NATO, anti-EU, and is also a communist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 12, 2017, 03:51:44 pm

[Class Struggle Intensifies]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 12, 2017, 03:56:09 pm

Similarly poor form to keep changing the position you're arguing, jump to erroneous conclusions, and outright lie, too. It takes two to tango...

In other football news, Leicester fans are drawing the ire of Madrid police (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-39581782).

PPE: as an aside to the French polls, British MP's claim the Brexit voter registration website was hacked (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39564289).

The most salient point is made in the last four paragraphs:

Quote

The committee called on the government to set up a new Cyber Security Centre to monitor and contain potential attacks on UK elections and referendums - particularly foreign attempts to influence public opinion and disrupt the democratic process.

"The US and UK understanding of 'cyber' is predominantly technical and computer-network based," said the report.

"For example, Russia and China use a cognitive approach based on understanding of mass psychology and of how to exploit individuals.

"The implications of this different understanding of cyber-attack, as purely technical or as reaching beyond the digital to influence public opinion, for the interference in elections and referendums are clear," the report added.

Evidently the Western world is lagging behind in the social engineering stakes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 12, 2017, 04:17:54 pm

Some more news from France:

Fiscal Kombat: French presidential candidate Jean-Luc Melenchon stars in video game (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39569301)

Quote

Supporters of the far-left French presidential candidate Jean-Luc Melenchon have created a video game where players bash the rich.

In Fiscal Kombat the player roams the streets pretending to be Mr Melenchon as he battles against oligarchs and rival politicians.

The aim is to shake money from the rich to pay for Melenchon's policies.

The player's challenge is to get as much money as possible while avoiding the attempts of the rich to maul him to death.

Among the series of "bosses" that Melenchon must take on are former president Nicolas Sarkozy; the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde; the tax-evading politician Jerome Cahuzac; and the L'Oreal heiress Liliane Bettencourt.

Quote

Presidential rivals Emmanuel Macron and Francois Fillon must also be defeated.

According to Le Monde, the game was created by Melenchon supporters who met on the 18-25 chatroom of Jeuxvideo.com, a French gaming website.

It has since been fully embraced by the candidate himself, who has released a YouTube video of him playing the game.

"The hero of the game, it's me. I and the people playing my character fighting the oligarchs," Melenchon says in the video.

No wonder his rating is skyrocketing...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LethalShade on April 13, 2017, 12:28:57 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 12, 2017, 03:44:50 pm

Melenchon is rising quite rapidly in polls, while Hamon is nose-diving:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9OfL2WXgAE3DLE.jpg)

As a reminder, Melenchon is anti-NATO, anti-EU, and is also a communist.

Frenchfag here. Nope, Mélenchon isn't really communist anymore. He has ties with the communist party but they really don't like each other.

And yeah, he's really popular with the youth because he's the only candidate that knows how the new media (Youtube, internet as whole) works.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on April 13, 2017, 01:06:01 am

Off-topic but it's not particularly obvious, the 'chan lingo of "xfag" is sometimes considered bigoted language because the Grand Toad doesn't always have time to look at all the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on April 13, 2017, 01:40:25 am

Preeeetty sure I've seen it mentioned. I can't think of an explicit case of a warning or a mute, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2017, 02:24:01 am

I've seen it before too. Don't use the word.

In other news from Sweden, yesterday the Employment Court handled the case of whether nurses had a right to refuse certain tasks on grounds of "freedom of conscience" (https://www.svd.se/idag-avgors-tvist-om-abortvagran) and came to the conclusion that no, all nurses must expect to perform all the tasks expected of them. Specifically, the case in question was that of a nurse who felt that she should have the right to refuse performing abortions, granting day-after prevention pills, and installing pregnancy prevention spirals, and that the
Region of Jönköping has discriminated against her when they didn't hire her after she had told them she wouldn't perform said tasks if she was hired.

As the Employment Court is the highest instance relevant her only choice now is to either accept the outcome or take it to the EU Court (or Court of Europe, whichever is right). It is suspected she will do the latter, as her case and herself has been supported financially by the American Christian lobby organisation Alliance Defending Freedom (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6614458) as part of a campaign to influence European states abortion rights. Personally I hope the EU will uphold the Swedish decision if it comes to that, but I am not particularly optimistic about that being the outcome.

Bonus funfact: The city of Jönköping is sometimes nicknamed Sweden's Jerusalem because the high proportion of free-religious Christians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: LethalShade on April 13, 2017, 04:57:16 am

I wasn't aware that a Christian lobby supported the case. It's disgusting.

Sweden made the right decision.


EDIT : As for the xfag slang, I always thought it was okay when applied to myself. Go figure. Thanks for the warning though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2017, 05:22:11 am

Oh, I doubt anyone would report it used about yourself anywaanyways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 09:21:47 am

Quote from: scriver on April 13, 2017, 02:24:01 am

Eh, it'd be interesting, but I don't think the ECJ (European Court of Justice) would rule that way. After all, they're the one that ruled that it's ok under EU law to fire an employee for wearing an headscarf as long as all religious symbols are equally banned. (http://www.ionainstitute.ie/a-bad-day-for-religious-freedom-at-the-european-court-of-justice/) Or you mean the European Court of Human Right? (That one isn't an instiution of the EU, but of the Council of Europe).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 10:25:11 am

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 09:08:22 am

Yet another case involving a gang of Asian men in the UK grooming and sexually abusing young girls has come to trial, with 29 defendants, facing more than 170 charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39580591) of abuse of girls between the ages of 11 and 17 around Huddersfield.

It is, at this point, a national crisis, and yet this latest case isn't even a BBC headline, having been passed over in favour of important stuff like a speeding squaddie, Harper Beckham becoming a trademark, predictions of Easter traffic jams and the latest update in the United Airlines melodrama.

We are failing a generation of young girls in these communities, and it is absolutely disgusting.

It's just became expected and something "you have to deal with now".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 10:33:13 am

I cannot say I am terribly pleased with the court decision. It has certainly fallen in the right direction (abortion is a dreadful business, but it needs to be available, and clauses and agreements to nibble away at the abortion right is never welcome), but I would have prefered to have seen a compromise. Namely, a midwife is free to refuse to carry out an abortion in person, but ultimately answers for ensuring that there is someone who will. I believe that those professionals who are not prepared to carry out an abortion is in a significant minority in the Swedish healthcare staff, and as long as the procedure is carried out timely and properly, who is doing it cannot be much of a concern. A blanket 'no' seems rather heavy-handed, when an alternative is present.

Still. Better this than the other, if an entirely binary option is what we are stuck with.

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 09:08:22 am

Yet another case involving a gang of Asian men in the UK grooming and sexually abusing young girls has come to trial, with 29 defendants, facing more than 170 charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39580591) of abuse of girls between the ages of 11 and 17 around Huddersfield.

It is, at this point, a national crisis, and yet this latest case isn't even a BBC headline, having been passed over in favour of important stuff like a speeding squaddie, Harper Beckham becoming a trademark, predictions of Easter traffic jams and the latest update in the United Airlines melodrama.

We are failing a generation of young girls in these communities, and it is absolutely disgusting.

But - but - but, Sir! We cannot give an inch to the horrible, terrible spectre of IslamophobiaⓇ! Imagine giving this tiny, local incident (in which the perpetrators could be anyone, absolutely anyone, I might add!) greater attention than necessary. Why, someone, somewhere, might be persuaded to dislike such fellows! They might even think, oh, horror of horrors!, that such abuse might be more common in certain demographics, and we cannot possibly allow it, not for worlds! Why, some people have not even heard of cultural relativity (can you believe it? It is 2017, for pity's sake!), and cannot possibly put it into its proper context, but immediately apply their own, regressive, outdated, imperialist values upon it! And that would be ever so horrible!

---

^{No, on second thought, I do not think satire is something for me... I will need a bath, now.}

Agreed. There is something terribly disconcerting in how carefully this is being flown under the radar. I suppose a certain tactful discretion and calmness is important when reporting on sex crime trials, but this is ridiculously discrete. It might be a fault of my own, but I cannot believe that such a vast case would be passed so quietly along under 'ordinary' circumstances.

At least they wrote something on the matter, albeit no more than what was strictly necessary.

Quote from: LethalShade on April 13, 2017, 04:57:16 am

EDIT : As for the xfag slang, I always thought it was okay when applied to myself. Go figure. Thanks for the warning though.

I usually replace X with 'friend'; newfriend, drawfriend, furfriend. I think it is rather lovely that way. It creates a pleasant atmosphere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 13, 2017, 10:58:34 am

What would you prefer? Papers with headlines like "Time to string up the chinks" or something? If there's a failure of policing to deal with it, or even issues with the system that is leading to this that you want to address, that seems all well and good. But taking umbrage that papers aren't reporting on it more? Maybe it's just because in general I don't think crimes should be highly publicized anyway but I don't see you guys pointing out something that really seems to be an issue. Like, yeah, you're outraged at this crime, that makes sense, since it's an outrageous crime. But what do you want changed, and why? The fact that you consider this a national crisis is a big hint that something needs to change, but I'm not sure how increased reporting helps with that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 11:22:40 am

In brief and plain: I disapprove when crimes, trials and incidents are under-reported because of the ethnicity of the perpetrators. It is part of a bigger problem, when the issue of ethnicity short-cirquits any meaningful discussion and action. That the BBC tries to be much more quiet in reporting this case than they would have been if it had been perpetrated in, say, Bath, is not a terrible crisis in and off itself. It is a part of a greater phenomenon, however, and decreasing that tendency in reporting and publishing would help in diminishing it.

I do not ask for great, passionate head-lines, I do not demand that they shout it from the roof-tops. But I do not approve of the type of reporting where unflattering or inconvenient reports are diminished and hidden away. It is one thing when it is merely (well, 'merely') about journalism, but it is a different case entirely when laws are overlooked and poor behaviours are ignored because of ethnicity.

(As a note: 'Asian' in the British context tend to mean Central Asian; in this case, Pakistanis.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2017, 11:24:58 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 09:21:47 am

Quote from: scriver on April 13, 2017, 02:24:01 am

Eh, it'd be interesting, but I don't think the ECJ (European Court of Justice) would rule that way. After all, they're the one that ruled that it's ok under EU law to fire an employee for wearing an headscarf as long as all religious symbols are equally banned. (http://www.ionainstitute.ie/a-bad-day-for-religious-freedom-at-the-european-court-of-justice/) Or you mean the European Court of Human Right? (That one isn't an instiution of the EU, but of the Council of Europe).

I was directly translating Europadomstolen (more or less, super directly it would've been "the European Chair of Doom"), which is what it is called here, which seems to be the ciurt of Human Rights. So yeah, technically not EU.

Quote from: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 10:33:13 am

I cannot say I am terribly pleased with the court decision. It has certainly fallen in the right direction (abortion is a dreadful business, but it needs to be available, and clauses and agreements to nibble away at the abortion right is never welcome), but I would have prefered to have seen a compromise. Namely, a midwife is free to refuse to carry out an abortion in person, but ultimately answers for ensuring that there is someone who will. I believe that those professionals who are not prepared to carry out an abortion is in a significant minority in the Swedish healthcare staff, and as long as the procedure is carried out timely and properly, who is doing it cannot be much of a concern. A blanket 'no' seems rather heavy-handed, when an alternative is present

The alternative to work in a private practice still exist. I think it's reasonable to expect all people who work for the state hospitals to be able to perform the tasks the state is legally bound to have available.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 13, 2017, 11:38:13 am

There's a pretty large gap between "the state is failing to take appropriate action" and "the media isn't reporting crimes to the population enough."

Edit: To elaborate further on that response:

Silverthrone: If laws are being overlooked being of ethnicity that's quite a bit different, and I agree with you that's something that people should probably be made aware of so that they can start to work on it. Also yeah, thanks for the Asian=Pakistanis thing, I feel like I probably should have known that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 11:53:54 am

Quote from: scriver on April 13, 2017, 11:24:58 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 09:21:47 am

Quote from: scriver on April 13, 2017, 02:24:01 am

Eh, it'd be interesting, but I don't think the ECJ (European Court of Justice) would rule that way. After all, they're the one that ruled that it's ok under EU law to fire an employee for wearing an headscarf as long as all religious symbols are equally banned. (http://www.ionainstitute.ie/a-bad-day-for-religious-freedom-at-the-european-court-of-justice/) Or you mean the European Court of Human Right? (That one isn't an instiution of the EU, but of the Council of Europe).

I was directly translating Europadomstolen (more or less, super directly it would've been "the European Chair of Doom"), which is what it is called here, which seems to be the ciurt of Human Rights. So yeah, technically not EU.

Quote from: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 10:33:13 am

I cannot say I am terribly pleased with the court decision. It has certainly fallen in the right direction (abortion is a dreadful business, but it needs to be available, and clauses and agreements to nibble away at the abortion right is never welcome), but I would have prefered to have seen a compromise. Namely, a midwife is free to refuse to carry out an abortion in person, but ultimately answers for ensuring that there is someone who will. I believe that those professionals who are not prepared to carry out an abortion is in a significant minority in the Swedish healthcare staff, and as long as the procedure is carried out timely and properly, who is doing it cannot be much of a concern. A blanket 'no' seems rather heavy-handed, when an alternative is present

The alternative to work in a private practice still exist. I think it's reasonable to expect all people who work for the state hospitals to be able to perform the tasks the state is legally bound to have available.

I do like that word. Domstol. Domstol. The seat from which judgment is passed. It carries more gravitas than merely a 'court'.

I believe you are right, now that you say it. With the current state of the state healthcare, it is all hands on deck, and it is probably better that the staff can carry out all the tasks they are designated for. I must confess that I entirely forgot the private practices option. That does sound like the best solution, after all.

Quote from: Criptfeind on April 13, 2017, 11:38:13 am

There's a pretty large gap between "the state is failing to take appropriate action" and "the media isn't reporting crimes to the population enough."

Edit: To elaborate further on that response:

Silverthrone: If laws are being overlooked being of ethnicity that's quite a bit different, and I agree with you that's something that people should probably be made aware of so that they can start to work on it. Also yeah, thanks for the Asian=Pakistanis thing, I feel like I probably should have known that.

The media (on the whole) do tend to do rather good work in reporting crime to the public, which is why the sudden slump in standards when the ethnic dilemma appears is a bit of a shame, and with the importance of the media in the modern world, it is also quite disconcerting. If nothing, nothing else, it is about standards of journalism, and I believe BBC ought to do their damndest to keep theirs from slumping, in this day and age.

Yes, the British definition of 'Asian' rather confused me a few times, as well, before I learned. I also tend to connect the term to Far East Asians, myself, but it is rather easy to work out which is being talked about through the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 12:06:52 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 11:30:38 am

'The chinks', really Criptfeind?

Rather than getting aggravated at you appearing to minimise the organised sexual exploitation of thousands - possibly tens of thousands - of British children by gangs of sexual predators ('don't see you guys pointing out something that really seems to be an issue' indeed) and the accompanying failure of the state to take appropriate action for fear of being seen as racist (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html), I'd just like to find out first how informed about it you really are, what articles and sources you've read, etc.

Because the fact that you're talking about 'the chinks' doesn't fill me with confidence that you actually have a clue what you're talking about.

It's not just white girls, it's also Sikh girls who then won't be able to get married (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/grooming-uk-sex-asian-gang-503122#.UiTJVdpMwxA.twitter) because of these rape gangs.

But brush it all under the rug and claim it's not a problem, everything will be fine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 13, 2017, 12:23:43 pm

A lightly serious comparison between the French elections and the one that the US has gone through. (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/opinions/us-french-elections-spot-the-difference-andelman-opinion/index.html) Just an interesting look at it. Also, the French seem to be suffering from the same problems with the polling as we did, and some media (CNN is mentioned) aren't accepting the validity of it. So, it looks like the US media at the very least, has figured out the basics of what went wrong with the polling and that until we figure out what exactly happened (though likely for different reasons from France), best to take those with a grain of margin of error.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 01:45:33 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 12:23:06 pm

Is there any breakdown of crime by ethnicity? I remember when we had that discussion about Sweden some months (might have been a year) ago, and it turned out that new immigrants had lower than average sex crimes apart from stuff related to public bath (and lower average). I mean, we can cherry pick exemples all days (and they're cherry picked for us by FB's algorithm and our respectives bubbles), so overall stats are always interesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 13, 2017, 02:23:17 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 01:45:33 pm

Is there any breakdown of crime by ethnicity? I remember when we had that discussion about Sweden some months (might have been a year) ago, and it turned out that new immigrants had lower than average sex crimes apart from stuff related to public bath (and lower average). I mean, we can cherry pick exemples all days (and they're cherry picked for us by FB's algorithm and our respectives bubbles), so overall stats are always interesting.

Not by ethnicity, but differentiates citizens of foreign nations

https://www.poliisi.fi/instancedata/prime_product_julkaisu/intermin/embeds/polisenaxwwwstructure/46729_HPL_Ulkomaan_kansalaisten_osuus_rikollisuudessa_tammi_maalisk.2016.pdf?5f5ffe50796ad388

Rapes alone up by 50 % compared to year backwards. Last 2 paragraphs are change in numbers and percentile.

edit: also not Sweden, but, the thing that happened within the timeframe was the arrival of 32,000 "refugees".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 02:33:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 01:45:33 pm

Is there any breakdown of crime by ethnicity? I remember when we had that discussion about Sweden some months (might have been a year) ago, and it turned out that new immigrants had lower than average sex crimes apart from stuff related to public bath (and lower average). I mean, we can cherry pick exemples all days (and they're cherry picked for us by FB's algorithm and our respectives bubbles), so overall stats are always interesting.

I have the feeling that might be statistical manipulation and "refugees" aren't included in the "immigrants" category.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 02:55:45 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 02:49:36 pm

I don't recall that particular conversation, and though I don't have time to look in-depth right now, a very cursory glance doesn't seem to bear it out (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Sweden). All the 'Local Head of Cultural Integration Department at Stockholm University' hand-wrangling aside.

Quote

Those with immigrant background are overrepresented in Swedish crime statistics, but research shows that socioeconomic factors, such as unemployment, poverty, exclusion language, and other skills explain most of difference in crime rates between immigrants and natives.[12][92][93][94][95][96][97][98]

What the fuck does that mean?

"They can't speak the language so that justifies them raping people"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:01:12 pm

I like how you pull a justify out of a sentance containing only explain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 03:05:19 pm

Quote from: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:01:12 pm

I like how you pull a justify out of a sentance containing only explain.

Giving someone a reason for doing something beyond "they chose to do it" is justifying it.

If I say, "Oh, your insomnia explains why you crashed your car" is a justification for it. I have justified your crashing the car by taking the blame away from you.

If you say, "Oh, their not knowing the language explains why they raped those women" is a justification for it. You have said the blame for their actions is in the fact they don't understand the language, not in themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:15:37 pm

While the two words can be synonimous I don't think you're using that quite right. Especially since the quoted part is about the crime rate in general (in which case not knowing the language perfectly logically leads to crime because your legal life sustaining prospects are either limited or non-existant), not rape in particular. Unless you're claiming that the entirety of immigrant crime is rape all day every day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 13, 2017, 03:15:51 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 02:55:45 pm

"They can't speak the language so that justifies them raping people"?

Best excuse I've heard so far, was from an Iraqi man in 20s who raped a 13 or 14 year old (IIRC) in public baths. He claimed to have had a "sexual emergency" where he couldn't control himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 03:22:05 pm

Quote from: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:15:37 pm

While the two words can be synonimous I don't think you're using that quite right. Especially since the quoted part is about the crime rate in general (in which case not knowing the language perfectly logically leads to crime because your legal life sustaining prospects are either limited or non-existant), not rape in particular. Unless you're claiming that the entirety of immigrant crime is rape all day every day.

Yes, because Sweden, one of the biggest welfare states in the world, doesn't provide enough to immigrants to stop them having to steal to feed themselves. This is clearly the case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:25:53 pm

You really like your hyperbolic statements as fact don't you?

Because every single immigrant gets what they consider livable or a bare minimum and because every single one of them is registered and in the system and recieving benefits.

So here's the deal, either you start backing up your hyperbolic bullshit with some factual bits or we stop having a discussion, because one of us here is being intelectually dishonest and throwing shit into the mix for whatever reason they might have.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 13, 2017, 03:29:46 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 03:22:05 pm

Quote from: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:15:37 pm

While the two words can be synonimous I don't think you're using that quite right. Especially since the quoted part is about the crime rate in general (in which case not knowing the language perfectly logically leads to crime because your legal life sustaining prospects are either limited or non-existant), not rape in particular. Unless you're claiming that the entirety of immigrant crime is rape all day every day.

Yes, because Sweden, one of the biggest welfare states in the world, doesn't provide enough to immigrants to stop them having to steal to feed themselves. This is clearly the case.

It appears to be a poor transcription from this politifact article (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/feb/20/what-statistics-say-about-immigration-and-sweden), and should read as such:

Quote

Generally, there’s a certain over-representation of people with immigrant background in crime statistics, but that tends to be closely related to high levels of unemployment, poverty, exclusion, low language and other skills, Selin said.

I would also like to point out that you're jumping to conclusions. Nowhere does it say that any of those things are justifications for crime, merely that they correlate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 03:33:17 pm

Quote from: Jopax on April 13, 2017, 03:25:53 pm

You really like your hyperbolic statements as fact don't you?

Because every single immigrant gets what they consider livable or a bare minimum and because every single one of them is registered and in the system and recieving benefits.

So here's the deal, either you start backing up your hyperbolic bullshit with some factual bits or we stop having a discussion, because one of us here is being intelectually dishonest and throwing shit into the mix for whatever reason they might have.

Ah, that £28 a day they receive on welfare in Sweden is too little, not including the rent and bills they get paid for by the state. I understand how it is.

If they're not registered in the system and receiving benefits then they're not legal immigrants, are they? Therefore they wouldn't be included in statistics since they're non-existent in the system.

(I have my doubts on numbers of immigrants in Sweden being unregistered, considering how hard it is to just wander up there.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 13, 2017, 03:34:35 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 03:21:25 pm

Quote from: Erkki on April 13, 2017, 03:15:51 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 02:55:45 pm

"They can't speak the language so that justifies them raping people"?

Best excuse I've heard so far, was from an Iraqi man in 20s who raped a 13 or 14 year old (IIRC) in public baths. He claimed to have had a "sexual emergency" where he couldn't control himself.

The raped boy was 10, I believe.

And the 'sexual emergency' defence worked. His conviction was overturned.

You have to laugh, really. And then cry.

Good thing about is that he can be/could be deported.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 03:53:48 pm

Well, that is unless he goes under-ground. Like every other bastard seems to be doing.

There is a horribly large amount of people who have simply disappeared once their residence permits have been denied. For no one puts them in custody, and the police do not have the time nor necessary mandates to detain them very efficiently.

Mr. Uzbeki Lorry-Driver from last friday was one of those people.

Now, for a story. Some five odd years ago, the Stockholm metropolitan police began to do occasional identification sweeps in some major thoroughfares, such as the metro. The main purpose was to find and identify non-EU citizens who were no longer permitted to remain in the country. The general climate was, of course, rather different, and the police were called all sorts of things for executing the law. 'Fascists' was a popular one, I seem to recall.
In that sort of environment, it is no wonder that identification and deportations have been rather lax in recent years...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 13, 2017, 04:07:39 pm

The police shouldn't be the ones who are dealing with immigrants. Does Sweden not have an immigration service to keep track of immigrants?

In saying that, I once knew someone who overstayed a visa in the UK. The immigration service came to his door and asked where he was. Given he didn't particularly want to leave at that point, he told them "he doesn't live here anymore" and they left.

As for people not liking what the police were doing as per your story, I would imagine that people don't particularly like it when there is going to be some racial targeting element in the activities of the police, particularly when what they're looking for is someone whose only crime is not having the right pieces of paper.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 04:23:04 pm

Yes, but the immigration service does not have the mandate to carry out the deportations. They do keep track of the immigrants which cases they are currently handling, but it is terribly easy to simply disappear and remain in the country if your application is denied, or if there are other reasons to stay out of touch with the authorities.

Now, I can understand why people might be upset by those identity controls. That is not particularly hard, for it sounds very mean and nasty on paper. It is understandable, but more to the point, it is terribly naïve. It is not terribly pleasant to see people being deported to worse places, or policemen in public hoping to apprehend them, but it is a necessity. Losing control of who is allowed to enter and reside in the country leads to disorder, and can have very severe consequences.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 04:33:06 pm

Quote from: Covenant on April 13, 2017, 03:21:25 pm

Quote from: Erkki on April 13, 2017, 03:15:51 pm

Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on April 13, 2017, 02:55:45 pm

"They can't speak the language so that justifies them raping people"?

Best excuse I've heard so far, was from an Iraqi man in 20s who raped a 13 or 14 year old (IIRC) in public baths. He claimed to have had a "sexual emergency" where he couldn't control himself.

The raped boy was 10, I believe.

And the 'sexual emergency' defence worked. His conviction was overturned.

You have to laugh, really. And then cry.

Except for the part where his conviction wasn't overturned because of that defense but because of some procedural stuff in the way the verdict was phrased. He was re-tried and actually got a sentence six years longer the second time.  (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-swimming-pool-rape-theresienbad-vienna-iraqi-refugee-a7473441.html)

But yeah, I guess going for meme instead of fact makes for a better case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2017, 04:45:46 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 13, 2017, 04:07:39 pm

The police shouldn't be the ones who are dealing with immigrants. Does Sweden not have an immigration service to keep track of immigrants?

In saying that, I once knew someone who overstayed a visa in the UK. The immigration service came to his door and asked where he was. Given he didn't particularly want to leave at that point, he told them "he doesn't live here anymore" and they left.

As for people not liking what the police were doing as per your story, I would imagine that people don't particularly like it when there is going to be some racial targeting element in the activities of the police, particularly when what they're looking for is someone whose only crime is not having the right pieces of paper.

Lots of crimes can be reduced to not having the correct piece of paper, if that's how you want to look at it. Fact remains that people do not have a right to live wherever they want and require a reason to be allowed to stay here. "Life would be easier for me" is not a valid reason.

As for the "racial targeting": If police is looking for illegal immigrants then it makes sense for them to target people who look, sound, or act foreign. It's just common sense. I feel that getting asked to provide an ID despite being wrongly targeted isn't too much to ask of people anyway. The world doesn't revolve around them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 13, 2017, 05:26:21 pm

... problem being that catches a lot more people than immigrants, and there's kinda' consequences to treating entire ethnicities as suspected criminals. When you consider that most governments that have reached the point of casually allowing racial profiling either aren't exactly going to make IDs easy to get (or replace, should it come to that) even for citizens or will end up that way in relatively short order, then what you consider "not too much to ask" very rapidly actually does start becoming too much to ask for a fair number of your population* -- and on the heels of that you're going to have a lovely thing called selective enforcement start flapping its wings around, with a nice side order of the occasional "lost" papers that somehow never make it from whoever you give them to, to the courts. Add on that's about the fastest way to nuke the possibility of collaboration between even legal immigrant populations (who are going to be constantly and persistently harassed in the face of legal support for the power being considered) and your law enforcement agencies, and you get to toss a substantial spike in much, much more impactful crime on top of it, too. Along with a fair chunk of other junk. Usually just... not something you want to court allowing. Whatever gains you may make,** your country is going to be paying for in ways that either outweigh them immediately or pretty much inevitably will. Shit's just kinda' heavily abusable, and really, really not something you want your country to let fly.

Basically one of those issues where common sense is just sorta' wrong. On a single, isolated case it might look like it pans out, but in aggregate the effects of allowing that sort of blanket "just pull them over and demand ID" behavior start undermining the goal. Sometimes even if the goal is just less foreigners, since it kneecaps a number of the possible means of identifying and approaching ones undesired for whatever reason. And all that isn't getting into the problems related to giving police forces the ability to abuse the power and just say, "Well, they looked/sounded/whatever foreign" to justify harassing people and the host of other abuses a maliciously inclined officer can indulge in, or gods know what else I'm forgetting. Bad juju all around.

* You can see it in the US, if you want an example pretty close in nature, that just so happens to also have a tendency of being directed at minority populations. Part of the way voter disenfranchisement efforts play out is mandating ID that certain demographics are either less likely to have (drivers license for urban folks in areas with decent public transportation, as a very much non-exhaustive example), or face disproportionate expense (when targeted demographics often enough are already in rough times financially) to obtain or replace.
** And they're very much not guaranteed, because again, check the above -- cooperation with immigrant populations legal and not helps quite a bit with catching folks who are doing stuff of significantly more substantial note than not being here with papers. You turn every single member of the population into a suspected criminal and that cooperation both stops and often enough turns into active resistance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 06:03:23 pm

Yes, well, I do find it rather doubtful that the process of getting an indentification document will be made more difficult simply because of this. Further, since a valid ID is necessary for many every day tasks, it is very uncommon that someone does not have any sort of indentification whatsoever.

However, you are right, it is not a particularly good method, and it was clumsy of me to imply that it is such things that I want to see more in use. No, I think it is far too wide a net to catch a handful, at the very best. Targeted operations, based on careful observation and investigation, is better in every way. Observing them, finding their residence and inquiring there, for instance, or only sweep certain hot-spots where they are very likely to be at a given time. Also, there are some venues (such as car washes, building sites, kitchens) where unlicensed labour is common, and where illegal residents tend to be employed (for tuppence, long hours and no insurance, naturally, unlicensed labour is a rather exploitative world). Observing and examining them would be a better method.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 13, 2017, 06:28:47 pm

Probably would get more difficult, though, or allowed ID chosen in part because of the relative difficulties to obtain (if not at first, then as time goes on and people pay less attention). It's fairly common when it's possible to leverage that sort of thing towards whatever goal the people managing the leverage has (and it can be all sorts, mind you -- politicians, corporations, criminal organizations that manage to obtain influence, looking to make sure they have good recruiting grounds, extremists looking to prey on the desperate or have something to point to for propaganda purposes, etc., etc., etc.).

Though yeah, it is uncommon* that someone does not have any sort of identification whatsoever. Which is why when you see stuff like that go through -- if it doesn't start that way outright -- the sorts of identification that are accepted don't fall particularly comfortably under that "whatsoever" label :-\

Mostly ends up being one of those things that, in an ideal world without all the first and second+ order problems involved, it might actually manage to be a useful tool for identifying a targeted group. Obvious thing being obvious, this isn't an ideal world. It's something that's ripe for corruption and abuse, even when it does manage any gains toward that identification process.

* Mind, uncommon isn't even remotely unknown, still. You'd have to weigh that in consideration, too, whether hitting the groups where it does happen (if not commonly, then at least enough to be notable -- and don't forget to tally up the consequences beyond the immediate effect on said groups) is actually worth whatever you're getting out of it and/or isn't going to just make things worse on the net, however little.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on April 13, 2017, 07:14:22 pm

But surely, it is not a natural law that the difficulty of obtaining an identification card will increase with a tightened domestic policy? What purpose would it serve? Those are all entities that might influence the process, and that might have an interest in doing so, but it is not certain that they will. At present, it is not particularly difficult to obtain one, and it is handled by the police authority. Indeed, most other authorities and services strongly suggest that you get one.
Further, there is a similar 'identity card-light', as it were, available for registered asylum applicants. It is not a full ID, and cannot be used in banks, et cetera, but it works as a proof that the holder is allowed to remain in the country while their case is being tested. It is mostly used during contact with the authorities, and can also be used for lower costs on some medicine and healthcare. Of course, it is considered void if the application is denied.

In brief, I do not think that it is such a terrible, terrible bother to get hold of an identification document that it is unreasonable to expect it of the public. Further, if you are 'caught' in an ID-check, and cannot identify yourself with documents or to a satisfying degree without, they are not going to haul you off to a black-site, or throw you on the first outbound plane they find at the airport. At the very worst, you will be checked over in the police station. Not a very pleasant thing to have happen to you, but unless they have real reason to believe that you are an illegal resident (which is not very difficult to disprove, even without proper documents), it is not likely to happen.
With law and security at risk, I do, indeed, believe it is worth hitting those groups, shall we say. More people might need to take the plunge and apply for proper documents, which will be a light to moderate hassle, at worst. That weighs rather light against the alternative. Particularly for a small country that relies heavily on internal order and its bureaucracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 14, 2017, 01:01:33 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 13, 2017, 05:26:21 pm

When you consider that most governments that have reached the point of casually allowing racial profiling

This reminds me of a case in London I read about from the late 90s / early 00s.

There was a series of REALLY vicious combined burglary / rapes (guy was breaking in, raping and beating the shit out of whoever lived there and then running with goods he collected). There was no discretion on the targets, either. Children, the elderly, men, women. The person doing it was not picky at all.

People were getting really agitated because these were REALLY bad crimes back in the day.

Out of nowhere, the police started sending letters to and interrogating black men. The rights groups kicked off, saying the police were "racially profiling black people" and that anyone could've committed the crime.

A week later they caught the person that had been eluding them for ages.

Is this racial profiling?

Spoiler: How It Worked (click to show/hide)

This was back when DNA wasn't well understood by the public. No one really knew much about it, since it was before the advent of the CSI programs.

They took the criminal's semen from one of the victims and matched it to a series of genetic markers only present in black people. They knew the criminal had to be a man because they had semen (obviously). This allowed them to save a lot of money and limit the search to only black men.

They were doing mass DNA testing on the men they were interrogating and they eventually found a partial match (with a very rare DNA marker).

After doing some searching, they found the guy they were looking for, who was the partial match's first cousin.

And people were almost rioting about racial profiling about a system they didn't understand.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 14, 2017, 07:51:39 am

Quote

“This intention was not sufficiently established, so the Supreme Court quashed the rape conviction,” Austria’s national ORF broadcaster reported.'

'Procedural stuff', okay. He was TEN. How the fuck could a grown man not know whether a ten year old boy can consent? You can cite cultural differences all you like, but if this refugee is coming from a culture where ten year olds 'can' and apparently 'do' consent, that's an even bigger deal for the countries that are now importing those kind of attitudes.

Well, yeah, which is why it wasn't hard to re-sentence him. It's just that you have to justify it explicitely in the verdict, even if it's evident.

Quote

And you say he received a sentence six years longer - that's incorrect. He originally received a sentence of six years, and that was increased to seven years. That's right there in the article you linked to, second and fifth paragraphs.

Oh, you're right about that detail, I misread, sorry. Still, my track record is much better than yours of thinking that his defense worked and he was set free.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 14, 2017, 08:50:23 am

Quote from: Covenant on April 14, 2017, 05:33:26 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 13, 2017, 04:33:06 pm

Except for the part where his conviction wasn't overturned because of that defense but because of some procedural stuff in the way the verdict was phrased. He was re-tried and actually got a sentence six years longer the second time.  (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-swimming-pool-rape-theresienbad-vienna-iraqi-refugee-a7473441.html)

But yeah, I guess going for meme instead of fact makes for a better case.

'Supreme Court judges ruled (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html) that the first court should have established whether the attacker thought his victim agreed to a sexual act and intended to act against the boy’s will.

“This intention was not sufficiently established, so the Supreme Court quashed the rape conviction,” Austria’s national ORF broadcaster reported.'

'Procedural stuff', okay. He was TEN. How the fuck could a grown man not know whether a ten year old boy can consent? You can cite cultural differences all you like, but if this refugee is coming from a culture where ten year olds 'can' and apparently 'do' consent, that's an even bigger deal for the countries that are now importing those kind of attitudes.

And you say he received a sentence six years longer - that's incorrect. He originally received a sentence of six years, and that was increased to seven years. That's right there in the article you linked to, second and fifth paragraphs.

Also from your article: 'In its initial sentencing, the court heard how the 10-year-old victim had suffered both physical and mental injuries in the attack which amounted to serious bodily harm. The boy continues to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, his mother told the court.

But in mitigation, judges cited Amir’s own young age at just 20 when the crime was committed, his previous lack of convictions and his confession of responsibility.'

Seven years isn't enough. I'll be glad when we're out of the EU; I hope we bring back hanging for scum like this who sexually assault children.

The fact he still remains in Germany is unbelievable on it's own.

Quote from: Sheb on April 14, 2017, 07:51:39 am

Still, my track record is much better than yours of thinking that his defense worked and he was set free.

Are you joking?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2017, 10:10:30 am

But where do you actually deport someone like that to? His home government probbably won't take him back, high-profile vicious criminals arent exactly welcome in other countries, and human rights groups might get iffy if someone pushes him into the north sea and walks away whistling. I'd be much more pro-deportation if there was a clear place to dump these criminals.

or do you just sneak him into his home country on a diplomatic airplane illegally then take off before airport security notices?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 14, 2017, 12:35:25 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2017, 10:10:30 am

But where do you actually deport someone like that to? His home government probbably won't take him back, high-profile vicious criminals arent exactly welcome in other countries, and human rights groups might get iffy if someone pushes him into the north sea and walks away whistling. I'd be much more pro-deportation if there was a clear place to dump these criminals.

or do you just sneak him into his home country on a diplomatic airplane illegally then take off before airport security notices?

You could ask that about Trump and his plan for countries who refuse to take back deportees from their country and force them to accept said deportees.

Obviously you're not serious with the plane thing as they'd have to refuel and they'd have to get clearance from the Control Tower because otherwise they'd disrupt things to heck and risk colliding with an incoming plane.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 14, 2017, 07:28:09 pm

The bombing of the Dortmund team bus was allegedly not performed by Islamic extremists (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39603467).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 15, 2017, 01:48:37 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 14, 2017, 07:28:09 pm

The bombing of the Dortmund team bus was allegedly not performed by Islamic extremists (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39603467).

Man.

Why write it like that?

Even the article doesn't write it like that.

It says there are "doubts that there are Islamic links". The 25-year-old Iraqi they arrested is still being held as far as I can tell, so don't say "allegedly not performed".

EDIT: Shows the BBC bias in titles, though. Title is contradictory to the article itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2017, 06:28:36 am

Unless they edited, it reads exactly along the line of what the say in the article . The title refers to the security experts who say the letters found at the scene do not match the MO of normal IS communications, and some of whom have drawn the conclusion that IS is not in fact responsible.


Personally I think it was IS and the germans are being obtuse like usual, but dont fault le beeb

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 15, 2017, 06:41:50 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2017, 06:28:36 am

Unless they edited, it reads exactly along the line of what the say in the article . The title refers to the security experts who say the letters found at the scene do not match the MO of normal IS communications, and some of whom have drawn the conclusion that IS is not in fact responsible.

Personally I think it was IS and the germans are being obtuse like usual, but dont fault le beeb

The headline and the tagline are contradictory, though:

Quote from: Headline

Borussia Dortmund bombs: Letters at scene 'not from Islamists'

This, to me, reads "we have significant evidence that it was not Islamists".

Quote from: Tagline

Investigators in Germany say there is "significant doubt" that Tuesday's attack on the Borussia Dortmund team bus was the work of radical Islamists.

And then the tagline reads, "Well, the evidence doesn't match up exactly to what we've seen in the past so it might not be but we still haven't released the Iraqi Islamist we arrested on Wednesday but forget about that".

I wonder if they'll change this like they changed the deliberately obtuse "Syrian Migrant Dies in German Blast" (http://www.mediaite.com/online/bbc-headline-on-suicide-bomber-syrian-migrant-dies-in-german-blast/), which got fixed without any noted retraction or wrongdoing on the page.

Then again, I don't know how anyone can trust the BBC again after they asked "What is the right punishment for blasphemy?" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bbc-asian-network-twitter-right-punishment-blasphemy-apology-pakistan-a7637266.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 15, 2017, 06:55:34 am

The first paragraph of the article says that there's significant doubt the attack was the work of radical Islamists. "Allegedly" meaning something that is reported, but there's no proof.

The article goes on to quote state prosecutor Frauke Koehler as agreeing with the German media reports that it was "accurate" that the letters found at the scene saying the attack was done in the name of Allah may be fakes, which is what it says in the title of the article, thought a little more certainly than the article does.

Where exactly did I get it wrong?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 15, 2017, 07:09:24 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 15, 2017, 06:55:34 am

The first paragraph of the article says that there's significant doubt the attack was the work of radical Islamists. "Allegedly" meaning something that is reported, but there's no proof.

The article goes on to quote state prosecutor Frauke Koehler as agreeing with the German media reports that it was "accurate" that the letters found at the scene saying the attack was done in the name of Allah may be fakes, which is what it says in the title of the article, thought a little more certainly than the article does.

Where exactly did I get it wrong?

A better way of putting it would've been "there are doubts that the attack was not the work of radical Islamists".

Even then, that's a push. I can't blame you because the article is trash, though. The only real fact is that the notes don't quite match up to standard ISIS demands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2017, 07:18:00 am

This is pretty rich coming from a guy who three days ago was speculating about it being a prank out of control by hooligans.  Now hector13 is at fault for posting an article that questioned a bit too much it being an islamist attack? Cmon give me a break.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 15, 2017, 07:21:34 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2017, 07:18:00 am

This is pretty rich coming from a guy who three days ago was speculating about it being a prank out of control by hooligans.  Now hector13 is at fault for posting an article that questioned a bit too much it being an islamist attack? Cmon give me a break.

Where did I do that, exactly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on April 15, 2017, 09:30:42 am

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was someone else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2017, 09:48:18 am

Most likely it was actually Covenant, he did say that he thought it had been done by soccer (football to you guys in Europe, not to be confused with American Football) hooligans.

Here's a different source (if much shorter article) saying the same thing. (http://www.politico.eu/article/investigators-doubt-islamist-claim-in-dortmund-bvb-soccer-bus-attack-explosion/)

@shub on DNA being racial profiling: I'd say no, if done right, but biases can still come into play. If they were looking specifically at 'black racial markers', then yes, that'd be racial profiling.

Also, not the first time news articles have headings contradictory or misleading to the article itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2017, 10:08:52 am

It's entirely possible for a lone wolf to claim allegiance to ISIS and at the same time, not follow their usual MO. Though they don't know if it's a lone wolf or a group, the BBC article also mentions that the explosive was 'professionally made'.

Can any German Bay12ers corroborate on that? The Politico article does link to a Dutch newspaper, but it's paywalled, or maybe adblockerwalled, not gonna bother google translating that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 15, 2017, 10:23:43 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2017, 10:08:52 am

It's entirely possible for a lone wolf to claim allegiance to ISIS and at the same time, not follow their usual MO. Though they don't know if it's a lone wolf or a group, the BBC article also mentions that the explosive was 'professionally made'.

It's mostly amazing to me that it didn't say "is probably not linked to IS" or "is part of a splinter group". Not "is probably not Islamists".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2017, 10:31:50 am

It's more of a sense that they aren't absolutely sure who did it and it's standard operating procedure to look at all possibilities.

If it does say in the letters that they (whoever 'they' are) wanted the US airbase closed and German warplanes out of Syria, then that is pretty odd if it was an ISIS affiliated person, since they don't do negotiation (besides "Die or submit to our rule, heathens!"). Which is one factor contributing to them saying "we're not sure here."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 15, 2017, 11:09:10 am

Just took a look at the latest polls in France.

Spoiler: this almost looks like a four-way tie, what the hell (click to show/hide)

(http://s2.lemde.fr/image/2017/04/14/534x0/5111189_6_1570_intentions-de-vote-au-premier-tour-selon_f8131791e4049a8a20700266ccee3505.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2017, 02:58:08 pm

Headline tip: Florida Man "Truly awful" means that someone has said Florida Man is truly awful in those words, Florida Man 'truly awful' means that someone thinks Florida Man was truly awful but used too many words to say so to fit in a headline so it got shortened, and Florida Man Truly Awful means that, i dunno, scientists have tested him and gotten a reading of six millihitlers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2017, 06:17:55 pm

The fact that culture can be a mitigating factor is worrying in itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 16, 2017, 03:09:51 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 15, 2017, 06:17:55 pm

The fact that culture can be a mitigating factor is worrying in itself.

Uh, who are your responding to?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2017, 02:45:57 pm

In Italy, the combination of high unemployment and smothering bureaucracy has prompted the rise of a new profession: Queue-stander.
For 10 euros per hour, Giovanni Cafaro will stand in a queue line for you, so you can go do something else until it's your turn.
To quote the man: "as soon as this idea struck me, I knew for sure that I'd never be unemployed again in my life".

EDIT:

In unrelated news, in Germany, Amazon has aroused the fury of employee right organisations, by designing a new system to counter sick leave on the job.
It was already known practice, to reward employees who are never sick with a bonus on top of their salary.
Amazon changed this: You still get a bonus for not being sick, but it will be lowered if any of your direct colleagues have been sick. Amazon hopes that group pressure will bring down sick leave. Employee rights organisations are outraged.

I can see it already. "because you have cancer, I get paid less. I'll make you pay for that!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on April 20, 2017, 03:36:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 20, 2017, 02:45:57 pm

I can see it already. "because you have cancer, I get paid less. I'll make you pay for that!"

All according to plan. Fortunately people seem to be blaming the company for their gilded age tier policy, instead of each other for being sick.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 20, 2017, 03:47:22 pm

Speaking of France, what the fuck is going on in Paris, some sort of attack again?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2017, 04:22:36 pm

Yeah, guy drove his car to a couple of police cars at the Champs Elysee, and started emptying an automatic rifle at them. One police officer was killed, and two were seriously injured before they could kill the assailant.
The anti-terrorism section of the Paris justice department is investigating the case, meaning it is treated as a terrorist attack.
According to BFMTV, The assailant was known to the intelligence services and announced on Telegram he was going to kill police officers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 20, 2017, 08:57:45 pm

How are the intel services not keeping a close enough eye on the person? Yeah, I know, there's the usual 'they're stretched thin, lack of resources, etc'.

Anyways, France just had their equivalent of the 'October surprise', the first round is three days away (http://www.politico.eu/article/terror-attack-sends-quake-through-last-days-of-french-presidential-campaign/).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 21, 2017, 02:28:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 20, 2017, 08:57:45 pm

How are the intel services not keeping a close enough eye on the person? Yeah, I know, there's the usual 'they're stretched thin, lack of resources, etc'.

Anyways, France just had their equivalent of the 'October surprise', the first round is three days away (http://www.politico.eu/article/terror-attack-sends-quake-through-last-days-of-french-presidential-campaign/).

Litterally that. I mean, if you want someone watching a guy at all time, it means you probably need 8-10 intelligence guy by suspect. You can't do that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 21, 2017, 02:43:46 am

Meanwhile in Germany, it has become clear that the bombing of the Borussia Dortmund player bus was not a terrorist attack. Instead, it had financial motives. The perpetrator had speculated on stock devaluation of the football club shortly before he bombed the bus. The perpetrator is a Russian - German man who was already in the sights of justice department since a few days before Easter.

The man has been arrested last night, and will be charged with attempted murder, and causing grieveous bodily harm (the injured player had cuts in his face, and also broke a bone in his hand. At first, police had classified it as light injury, but they have edited their reports and changed that to serious injury).

The letters found near the scene claiming it was a terrorist attack were fake, and meant as a diversion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 21, 2017, 02:50:04 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 21, 2017, 02:43:46 am

Meanwhile in Germany, it has become clear that the bombing of the Borussia Dortmund player bus was not a terrorist attack. Instead, it had financial motives. The perpetrator had speculated on stock devaluation of the football club shortly before he bombed the bus. The perpetrator is a Russian - German man who was already in the sights of justice department since a few days before Easter.

Ahah, so it WAS russia :p.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 21, 2017, 04:37:29 am

Holy shit, intelligence / justice fail.
The guy arrested for the shooting in Paris yesterday has quite a record.

In 2005, Karim C. was convicted to 15 years in prison, for attempted triple homicide. This happened in 2001, when he was being chased by the police, in a stolen car. He crashed into another car, in which sat 2 borthers, of whom one a police academy student.

He then proceeded to flee on foot. When the 2 brothers persued, and caught up with him, he shot them both in the chest with a revolver.

Not long after that, he was arrested. Two days later, he managed to steal the gun of a police officer who was transferring him to another cell, and shot him multiple times, grieveously injuring him.

Skip forward in time, apparently he has been released early (EDIT: or perhaps not, since he was apprehended in 2001 already), to 23 february this year. His messages on Telegram, indicating he wants to kill police, and in which he is inquiring into acquiring a firearm, leads to him being apprehended and charged. He was then cleared by the court for lack of evidence, and released again.

Which allowed him to pull up next to a few police vans in Paris, and open fire with an autumatic weapon, killing one officer, seriously injuring 2 more, and lightly injuring a tourist, after which he was shot dead.

Not much later, IS claimed the attack, yet named the assailant 'Abu Yussef el Belgiki'. This puzzles the intelligence agencies, and makes them suspect there might be an accomplice who is still at large, for Karim C. was not a Belgian, he was from Paris itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on April 21, 2017, 05:55:22 am

You can shoot 3 people of whom 2 are police officers and get only 15 years in jail?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 21, 2017, 01:01:42 pm

Meanwhile, Dutch beach tourism in the southwestern provinces has seen more German tourists then ever during the Easter Holidays, and bookings are through the roof for the holidays in May. A reported interviewed German tourists, to find out why.
Apparently a lot used to go to France, but no longer feel at ease there, because there's police with machineguns everywhere at the beach sites, ever since the Nice attack. So they rather come to the significantly colder Dutch beach, to get that real holiday feeling, without the machinguns.
This might lead to serious overcrowding if the trend continues to the summer holidays. In summer, there's already about 2 million Germans every year, camping at our beach sites. There's even a joke about it. 'No one will invade the Netherlands from the sea during the summer, there's Germans dug into the beaches everywhere.' More would probably not fit, unless you like lying on a beach like worms in a can

EDIT: it's ironic. I can dig their feeling. I had the same thing when I went to Berlin on the 1st of May about 15 years ago. There were green men with machineguns in the U-bahn trains. Didn't feel comfortable being so close to a deadly weapon.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 21, 2017, 02:09:10 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 21, 2017, 01:01:42 pm

--
Didn't feel comfortable being so close to a deadly weapon.

Do you feel comfortable near vehicles or other tools? Not saying I cant understand you. In the ever-urbanizing, safe European nations with little to no old gun or even hunting culture that have also mostly abolished conscription long ago, people see firearms ever more in violent movies, games and war documentaries only. I feel we're quickly heading down the same path, just yesterday there was news on how people were "frightened of a black assault rifle like gun" when someone in service carrying his rifle went to buy something from a gas station's shop.

Back on topic; what I think is really unfortunate is how armed police needs to there, guarding places in force, in the first place. Great mistakes have already been made and I have a feeling that security wise things arent going to improve in Europe for my lifetime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on April 21, 2017, 03:11:43 pm

It's a bit different because an assault weapon isn't just a tool, it's a tool explicitly for killing, almost certainly for killing people. Chainsaws freak me a little too, but it's different because they have another purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 22, 2017, 10:54:42 pm

So, first round of the French presidential election tomorrow.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 23, 2017, 04:26:53 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 22, 2017, 11:12:37 pm

Before anyone asks, right now the polls have it at as too close to call.

That is, any combination of two out of the four on the top are within the polling margin of error for a runoff.

Polls will stay open until 20 in some cities so it'll be a while before we have results. We might get some exit polls in Belgian media before that. It's important to note that not only are polls close, there is a relatively large numbers of undecided voters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 23, 2017, 04:29:35 am

Meanwhile in Belgium, the Belgian branche of the Dutch ING bank has to reorganize, and fire part of their employee force. They have decided that everyone age 55 or above that gets fired will get paid 60-80% of their last wage until their retirement (so until they're 67 or whatever the current retirement age in Belgium is), including a yearly raise, without having to work for it.
The Belgian minister of Labour has protested, although he acknowledges that legally, there are no issues with the plan.
He does say it discriminates those employees under 55 who get fired, and that it also gives off a wrong signal, beause the Belgian government has been pushing for people to keep working for longer until retirement.

While it does sound sympathetic, rest assured that the bank's plan does not stem from altruistic beliefs.
With the current state of employee rights in Belgium, it's simply cheaper to keep paying an employee his wage for 10-15 years, without any work done, that to fire him/her through legal procedures.

Former ING employees in the Netherlands, who met the same fate of reorganisation not too long ago are gouging out their own eyes in envy. They didn't get any such deal, they're in the unemployment queues, dropping to social minimum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 23, 2017, 04:40:36 am

Well, Macron is about four or five percent ahead of both Fillon and Mélenchon even in his worst polls. Shouldn't that mean that his chances are pretty good?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 05:49:38 am

French election somewhat interrupted by suspicious vehicle (http://www.reuters.com/article/france-election-besancon-idUSL8N1HV083)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 23, 2017, 06:43:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 05:49:38 am

French election somewhat interrupted by suspicious vehicle (http://www.reuters.com/article/france-election-besancon-idUSL8N1HV083)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1407/720762008_f116f3cb8e_z.jpg?zz=1)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 07:08:03 am

Dongmobile rising in polls     

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 23, 2017, 07:51:54 am

Well, Macron is ahead by several %age points, but his support is less enthusiastic and there are a LOT of undecided voters. His chances are good, but you can't rule out an upset.

Turnout at 12 was up by some fractions of a %age point compared to 2012, which is a good sign for those of us who dislike Le Pen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 08:22:30 am

Quote

Commentators have suggested that low voter turnout would benefit far-right candidate Ms Le Pen, whose supporters are more certain to vote in a low turnout election than those of other candidates.

All candidates had voted by lunch.

Tbh low turnout is haram. Not like Napoleon who got 101% turnout at all

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 08:30:48 am

Haram is always haram. I would be more surprised if halal was haram

Also away from French election and into Brit election
Corbyn to promise additional holidays if he is elected (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/analysis-jeremy-corbyns-team-nailed-perfect-election-slogan/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 23, 2017, 08:55:29 am

If the Royal Family accepted polygamy they could get married several times = more holidays. Think about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 23, 2017, 09:55:47 am

Eventually the British economy would grind to a halt as all days became holidays.

But the TOURISM DOLLARS would more than make up for it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 23, 2017, 10:38:50 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 08:30:48 am

Haram is always haram. I would be more surprised if halal was haram

Also away from French election and into Brit election
Corbyn to promise additional holidays if he is elected (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/analysis-jeremy-corbyns-team-nailed-perfect-election-slogan/)

Unofficial exit polls (French law forbid announcing exit polls before the end, but it doesn't apply to Belgian broadcaster.) seems to hint to the expected Macron-Le Pen second round.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2017, 01:58:45 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 23, 2017, 08:33:11 am

I'M VOTING FOR HIM!

It was fucking great when I got a day of school because of the royal wedding.

swear down promising holidays in exchange for votes is simultaneously one of the best and worst ideas ever

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 23, 2017, 08:55:29 am

If the Royal Family accepted polygamy they could get married several times = more holidays. Think about it.

inb4 the queen sets up a royal harem of lumberjacks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 23, 2017, 02:42:35 pm

So it seems that the French election end up with MAcron in first place and Le Pen in second.

Interestingly, the Socialist Party, torn between the centrist Macron and the hard-left Melenchon clocked less than 10%. It's going tobe interesting waiting to see if itll survive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 23, 2017, 03:13:49 pm

someone really needs to start a new party based around the things that everyone actually hates, the rejection of old entrenched elite orientated capitalist neoliberal principles and a extremist anti corruption and electoral reformist stance. basically a trump like appeal to the massive amounts of angry disenfranchised people but with actually intent and positive reformist policies. direct all that energy at the things that are really hurting people not scapegoats or to push a ideology. we have yet to hit this stage yet where all that energy is caught and directed into a solid movement like have emerged in the past. the republican revolutionary's the communists the nationalists and socialists. i just wonder when and where it will finally emerge to harnessed the energy and in what form. if all that anger is siphoned off into the continuing right reaction i can see it getting messy when the two new stances meet. early twentieth century 2 would not be fun. thoughts?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 23, 2017, 03:30:09 pm

That's why people should look less at the policies on offer and more on the mode of thinking and acting behind those policies. Communists, Nationalists, Socialists - they've all ran things into the ground. What you call

Quote

rejection of old entrenched elite orientated capitalist neoliberal principles

I call refusal to deal with conflicting interests in a mutual manner. What you call

Quote

extremist anti corruption and electoral reformist stance

I call preparations for a power grab.

I know those are not your intentions - but if your revolution was unleashed, those would be the results. Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism don't come out of nowhere, they are the result of a certain political and philosophical mindset.

Spoiler: Goethe said it best. (click to show/hide)

Quote

Hat der alte Hexenmeister
Sich doch einmal wegbegeben!
Und nun sollen seine Geister
Auch nach meinem Willen leben.
Seine Wort und Werke
Merkt ich und den Brauch,
Und mit Geistesstärke
Tu ich Wunder auch.
Walle! walle
Manche Strecke,
Daß, zum Zwecke,
Wasser fließe
Und mit reichem, vollem Schwalle
Zu dem Bade sich ergieße.
Und nun komm, du alter Besen,
Nimm die schlechten Lumpenhüllen!
Bist schon lange Knecht gewesen:
Nun erfülle meinen Willen!
Auf zwei Beinen stehe, -
Oben sei ein Kopf,
Eile nun und gehe
Mit dem Wassertopf!
Walle! walle
Manche Strecke,
Daß, zum Zwecke,
Wasser fließe
Und mit reichem, vollem Schwalle
Zu dem Bade sich ergieße.
Seht, er läuft zum Ufer nieder!
Wahrlich! ist schon an dem Flusse,
Und mit Blitzesschnelle wieder
Ist er hier mit raschem Gusse.
Schon zum zweiten Male!
Wie das Becken schwillt!
Wie sich jede Schale
Voll mit Wasser füllt!
Stehe! stehe!
Denn wir haben
Deiner Gaben
Vollgemessen!
Ach, ich merk es! Wehe! wehe!
Hab ich doch das Wort vergessen!
Ach, das Wort, worauf am Ende
Er das wird, was er gewesen!
Ach, er läuft und bringt behende!
Wärst du doch der alte Besen!
Immer neue Güsse
Bringt er schnell herein,
Ach, und hundert Flüsse
Stürzen auf mich ein!
Nein, nicht länger
Kann ichs lassen:
Will ihn fassen!
Das ist Tücke!
Ach, nun wird mir immer bänger!
Welche Miene! welche Blicke!
O, du Ausgeburt der Hölle!
Soll das ganze Haus ersaufen?
Seh ich über jede Schwelle
Doch schon Wasserströme laufen.
Ein verruchter Besen,
Der nicht hören will!
Stock, der du gewesen,
Steh doch wieder still!
Willst am Ende
Gar nicht lassen?
Will dich fassen,
Will dich halten
Und das alte Holz behende
Mit dem scharfen Beile spalten!
Seht, da kommt er schleppend wieder!
Wie ich mich nur auf dich werfe,
Gleich, o Kobold, liegst du nieder;
Krachend trifft die glatte Schärfe.
Wahrlich! brav getroffen!
Seht, er ist entzwei!
Und nun kann ich hoffen,
Und ich atme frei!
Wehe! wehe!
Beide Teile
Stehn in Eile
Schon als Knechte
Völlig fertig in die Höhe!
Helft mir, ach! ihr hohen Mächte!
Und sie laufen! Naß und nässer
Wirds im Saal und auf den Stufen:
Welch entsetzliches Gewässer!
Herr und Meister, hör mich rufen! -
Ach, da kommt der Meister!
Herr, die Not ist groß!
Die ich rief, die Geister,
Werd ich nun nicht los.
"In die Ecke,
Besen! Besen!
Seids gewesen!
Denn als Geister
Ruft euch nur, zu seinem Zwecke,
Erst hervor der alte Meister."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 23, 2017, 03:42:31 pm

I had something a little less revolutionary in mind with my wandering speculation. something more akin to a political party that's less concerned with making money as the thing of primary importance in die Welt. Ein Mann kann hoffen. ;)

something more along the lines of the anti Reagan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:15:56 am

Macron-Le Pen second round. It's good to know that Europe Continental still is sane. Macron will win the second round - he has a 20+ percent lead on Le Pen. This spells very good news for the EU, and could possibly be the start on a road to proper federalization of the Union, which will produce the economically strongest entity on the planet.

I can't wait to see the glorious new age of Europe to shine upon us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 24, 2017, 02:17:27 am

"Its over Jean Marie! I have the high ground!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 24, 2017, 05:14:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:15:56 am

Macron-Le Pen second round. It's good to know that Europe Continental still is sane. Macron will win the second round - he has a 20+ percent lead on Le Pen. This spells very good news for the EU, and could possibly be the start on a road to proper federalization of the Union, which will produce the economically strongest entity on the planet.

I can't wait to see the glorious new age of Europe to shine upon us.

He probably will, but I wouldn't feel super confident either. A 90% chance to win is a 10% chance to see the Union die.

Also of note is the question of what will happen in five years. Will Macron manage to stem the feeling of pessimism in France enough to avoid a potential Frontist victory in 2022?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 24, 2017, 05:42:08 am

If Macron wins, that may do the hard work. It's hard to say how the new, improved, less holocaust denial National Front would handle a major loss. It could be seen as having always been a likelihood and just one more unpleasant step on their inevitable permanent takeover of France, or proof to the political disaffected that the Front really are unelectable kooks and that they should just go back to pretending to be ardent communists now.

Alternatively, the Front could win and fail to govern, again prompting this crisis.

Guess we'll see what the data brings on election day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 06:07:57 am

Quote from: greatorder on April 23, 2017, 03:11:38 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-candidate-gisela-allen-glasgow-council-bring-back-death-penalty-abolish-lgbt-communities-a7696651.html
UKIP chose someone for Glasgow that seems to be a little bit... I hesitate to use the term unhinged, but...
Apparently she also said that gorillas make her hormones go crazy (in an attempt to say "Gay people shouldn't talk about their sex lives), so either she's using some insane hyperbole there, or she's into bestiality.

Shabani has a big fanbase for being the world's most handsome gorilla (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/11700427/Japanese-women-go-ape-over-handsome-gorilla-named-Shabani.html)

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:15:56 am

Macron-Le Pen second round. It's good to know that Europe Continental still is sane. Macron will win the second round - he has a 20+ percent lead on Le Pen. This spells very good news for the EU, and could possibly be the start on a road to proper federalization of the Union, which will produce the economically strongest entity on the planet.
I can't wait to see the glorious new age of Europe to shine upon us.

Tbh what is the difference between the last two big surprises when the side that was "supposed to win" found out it didn't? Complacency kills you, being in of itself a form of arrogance - "Your armies are like grains of sand, ours like the ocean, why would we fear you?" Said the Emperor, to the Mongols

I'm not confident in calling it until Kingmaker Mélenchon moves one way or another

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 24, 2017, 06:23:34 am

Melenchon voters wont vote le pen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 06:39:52 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 24, 2017, 06:23:34 am

Melenchon voters wont vote le pen

That is one possibility

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 24, 2017, 06:40:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 06:07:57 am

Tbh what is the difference between the last two big surprises when the side that was "supposed to win" found out it didn't? Complacency kills you, being in of itself a form of arrogance - "Your armies are like grains of sand, ours like the ocean, why would we fear you?" Said the Emperor, to the Mongols

I'm not confident in calling it until Kingmaker Mélenchon moves one way or another

Well, the polls predicted the popular vote for Clinton to within a fraction of a percentage point, and showed Brexit and Brenotretarded (I kid) as head-to-head. On the other hand, they're giving a 20% win to Macron. (And in case you think French pollsters sucks exceptionnaly, they predicted the first round pretty accurately).

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on April 24, 2017, 05:42:08 am

If Macron wins, that may do the hard work. It's hard to say how the new, improved, less holocaust denial National Front would handle a major loss. It could be seen as having always been a likelihood and just one more unpleasant step on their inevitable permanent takeover of France, or proof to the political disaffected that the Front really are unelectable kooks and that they should just go back to pretending to be ardent communists now.

Alternatively, the Front could win and fail to govern, again prompting this crisis.

Guess we'll see what the data brings on election day.

Well, the "reformed" Front is not new either. Marine has been doing that for a while, and her voters didn't just give up in 2012. Granted, the process has been going on (notably how she kicked her dad out of the party in 2015) but the FN is still making progress: Le Pen picked up 1.2 millions more voters. That and the fact that pretty much all the others parties are in various stage of implosion help (It's worth keeping in mind that both Le Pen and Macron did worse than the two front-runners of 2012).

Maybe more interesting than what's happening to Le Pen is what's happening on the Left. The PS imploded, going from 10 millions votes to 2.2 millions now. In the meantime, Mélenchon doubled his votes, to above 7 millions. I think there is a real possibility of a rearrangement on the left and of the death of the PS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2017, 05:14:50 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:15:56 am

Macron-Le Pen second round. It's good to know that Europe Continental still is sane. Macron will win the second round - he has a 20+ percent lead on Le Pen. This spells very good news for the EU, and could possibly be the start on a road to proper federalization of the Union, which will produce the economically strongest entity on the planet.

I can't wait to see the glorious new age of Europe to shine upon us.

He probably will, but I wouldn't feel super confident either. A 90% chance to win is a 10% chance to see the Union die.

It's 100% all but guaranteed at this point. 20% disparity in votes cannot be nullified by a random error or fluke, and there's really nothing Le Pen can do to bridge that gap even to 10%, which is still more than twice the maximum possible polling error.

This is not USA, where you can win the election while losing the popular votes and where 10 000 people can decide who lead the country by being in the right place. And neither is it 1930s Germany, where a candidate winning ~30% of the votes won the overall election in the highly divided field.

France is a proper, actual, real democracy, where all votes are equal, and where you absolutely cannot win unless you convince more than half of voting population that you're the one who should lead their country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 07:38:49 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2017, 06:40:49 am

Well, the polls predicted the popular vote for Clinton to within a fraction of a percentage point, and showed Brexit and Brenotretarded (I kid) as head-to-head.

They showed Remain having a victory 52-48 and Clinton painting the USA blue, when in reality Leave won 52-48 and Clinton lost the swing states and even Democrat strongholds.

Quote from: Sheb on April 24, 2017, 06:40:49 am

On the other hand, they're giving a 20% win to Macron. (And in case you think French pollsters sucks exceptionnaly, they predicted the first round pretty accurately).

I don't think French pollsters suck exceptionally, I just find it foolish to buy into the sort of strategizing that ignores their own eyes and reason in favour of the assumptions predicated on polls. Analyzing data and identifying key demographics, targeting demographics with online ads likely to motivate the desired voters to mobilize at the ballots, demoralizing opposing demographics into believing their situation is hopeless - if there is an argument to be made that is is a very insincere way to conduct a democracy, I won't make it, as I don't know what makes an authentic democracy. I do know however that to be successful one must accommodate for and prepare for all outcomes, rejecting the most obvious ways your candidate can lose as even being possible on account of polling is absurdly risky, especially since pollsters only have access to one piece of information: How their respondents claim they intend to vote. Issues of voters being embarrassed to endorse a position upper-society looks down upon, issues of pollsters inflating or deflating genuine support on the belief that it should be more or less to accommodate for this, issues of pollsters not polling a representative audience - all these affect accuracy. Nevertheless, if polls were 100% accurate and 100% reliable for each moment in time they were taken, times change, and with it people's intentions. What is more surprising is that knowing this, people learned from Trump or Brexit not that one should act on the assumption that polls are not always 100% precise truth, but instead continued on course as normal. While David Cameron was talking about how he intended to heal a divided country upon his victory, his opponents were busy campaigning. While Clinton was talking about how Trump should not respond to his defeat violently, he was busy campaigning in states her campaign believed were safe Democrat seats. In the UK, in 2015, our parties ran into the exact same issue - they assumed that certain seats were "safe seats" because the people "always" voted for them, therefore they would again - only to be surprised, finding the polls were not entirely accurate.

Tl;dr, "because something hasn't ever happened, it won't happen" - is flawed thinking. We see today not just in past "surprises," but even today, wherein France will either have its youngest or first female President, both political outsiders from a system designed to keep them out. The unthinkable is subjective and personal, for others it is being planned for everyday. There is danger in simply assuming Macron has won because he's favoured to win, when Marine Le Pen has previous experience in Presidential campaigning and is capable of mobilizing her supporters in the lower-class areas of France in which her opponents cannot, hence why Macron should be trying to get the endorsement of Melenchon. Never say you have finished your job until you have finished it, and God knows people are asking what happens if Marine wins. If Macron has already won, I think it is more interesting to ask what happens after his victory. French concerns with mass migration taking away their identity, exposing them to the security risks of Nice and Paris, the death of their industries at the hands of wealthy financiers imposing free trade and open borders, all concerns that will have to be handled by an anti-nationalist Rothschild Investment banker who is pro-open borders, pro-EU and says France has no culture, whose support is based around a fear of Le Pen more than a love for Macron, especially given Macron's history in Hollande's government spent reducing corporate tax rates and Union rights.

Quote

In the queue to see Macron were lawyers, PR consultants, graphic designers; students, gay couples and middle-class Parisians of multiple ethnicities. These are the representatives of a cosmopolitan, successful France. It was hard not to be reminded of the “metropolitan elite” who voted against Brexit.
Macron has called for investment in poorer communities, and his campaign staff pointedly invited onstage a struggling single mother as a warm-up act that night.
Yet his Socialist rival, Benoit Hamon, accuses him of representing only those who are doing pretty well already. It is hard for some to disassociate Macron from his education at the Ecole Nationale d’Administration – university of choice for the political elite – and his career at Rothschild. One infamous incident from early in the campaign sticks in the memory, when he told a pair of workers on strike: “You don’t scare me with your t-shirts. The best way to pay for a suit is to work.” For Macron, work has usually involved wearing a tie.
IFOP figures show him beating Le Pen soundly in when it comes to the voting intentions of executives and managers – 37 per cent to her 18 per cent. But when it comes to manual workers, she takes a hefty 44 per cent to his 17. He would take Paris; she fares better in rural areas and among the unemployed.
If Frédéric Dabi is to be believed, Macron’s bid for the centre-ground could pay off handsomely. But not everyone is convinced.
“He’s the perfect representative of the electorate in the big globalised cities,” the geographer Christophe Guilluy told Le Point magazine in January.
“But it’s the peripheries of France that will decide this presidential election.” (http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/03/tale-two-electorates-will-rural-france-vote-emmanuel-macron)

Marx and Machiavelli were right, in that the powerful ultimately derive their power from their people. I'm intrigued by what spiciness shall ensue post-victory of whoever, and am somewhat saddened by my poor grasp of French.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

It's 100% all but guaranteed at this point.

The complacency sets in

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

France is a proper, actual, real democracy, where all votes are equal, and where you absolutely cannot win unless you convince more than half of voting population that you're the one who should lead their country.

This is what makes an authentic democracy?

*EDIT
An EU related joke:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/0ZsfIgR.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2017, 08:01:58 am

That sure was a lot of words to say "if brexit can do it with 4%, Le Pen is basically guaranteed  to get the extra  16% down pat."
 I don't think an upset for France five times the size of brexit is likely this time, and her internet meme magic isn't nearly as strong as trumps'.

On the other hand, 2017 might still only be warming up the kek machines

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 24, 2017, 08:09:47 am

Didn't all the losers from the first round endorse Macron?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 24, 2017, 08:11:49 am

This election will finally decide if France is really only an extention of Paris, or if there's more to France than just fancy frivolous things, postcards and somalian hobos.

There is magic in the air, ladies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 08:16:50 am

Quote from: hector13 on April 24, 2017, 08:09:47 am

Didn't all the losers from the first round endorse Macron?

The two from the establishment parties, yeah, don't know if the rest of them did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 08:19:25 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2017, 08:01:58 am

That sure was a lot of words to say "if brexit can do it with 4%, Le Pen is basically guaranteed  to get the extra  16% down pat."

Are you trying to start a quarrel? I've not known you to be one who places b8

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2017, 08:01:58 am

I don't think an upset for France five times the size of brexit is likely this time

Quote

Tl;dr, "because something hasn't ever happened, it won't happen" - is flawed thinking.

Before declaring victory, win. How many times will people need to get upset before they learn to stop being complacent and actually win first? Who are we to claim absolute destiny, to claim 100% guaranteed victory? None of us are prophets or seers who can say that, which if you did the courtesy of reading my post before criticizing it, would have been nice. That may be too much to ask for you, thus I leave you with a tl;dr, it was a lot of words to say "don't count your chickens before they have hatched."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 24, 2017, 08:21:05 am

I'd very surprised if both Fillon and Mechelon bases endorsed Macron, given Fillon's voterbase is composed largerly of older christian people who believe in family values and are very disgruntled at all the islamic terrorism going on and Mechelon's base being made up largely of euroskeptics (Macron is the most pro-EU of all the candidates, with Mechelon following Le Pen closely on euroskepticism), and a Macron France is a France that will never see a Frexit referendum, plus Mechelon's base doesnt seem very fond of globalism, which Macron is the poster boy for. If Le Pen's campaigners can reach out of these voterbases, then she will have a serious chance of winning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 08:27:46 am

It does seem like it's going to become a pseudo-referendum on frexit/not-frexit, not to mention a sizeable amount of not-Le Pen voters. Like how there were lots of republicans who held their nose on Trump because they thought Hillary was worse.

Also, I've read that Melechon was so far left-wing that he makes Sanders look right-wing. What with 100% tax on those making over 400,000 Euro or something like that, and other stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 08:42:28 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/rgWrp3S.jpg)

Pretty map

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2017, 09:20:31 am

It's easy to forget that le Penne has made built her road to this election by mirroring the socialist wing. Maccheroncelli supporters going to her over of neo-liberal Macaroni is not unthinkable, but I wouldn't think there would be many of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 07:38:49 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

It's 100% all but guaranteed at this point.

The complacency sets in

Unlike with previous elections, there isn't a single poll that predicts Le Pen winning. Unlike with previous Brexit and USA elections, the gap in votes is not 2-3%, but a full-on 20%.

This is not complacency, this is a statement of the factual reality based on cold, hard facts that there hasn't been a single candidate in history that overcame such odds without blatant cheating, and that two weeks isn't nearly enough to make a full 1/5th of France's voting population switch sides.

This election is over for your side, LW. Euroscepticism has lost in France. It's just a matter of technical formalities to make it official.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 09:24:55 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 07:38:49 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

It's 100% all but guaranteed at this point.

The complacency sets in

Unlike with previous elections, there isn't a single poll that predicts Le Pen winning. Unlike with previous Brexit and USA elections, the gap in votes is not 2-3%, but a full-on 20%.

This is not complacency, this is a statement of the factual reality based on cold, hard facts that there hasn't been a single candidate in history that overcame such odds without blatant cheating, and that two weeks isn't nearly enough to make a full 1/5th of France's voting population switch sides.

This election is over for your side, LW. Euroscepticism has lost in France. It's just a matter of technical formalities to make it official.

I wouldn't count Euroskepticism out yet. Even if Le Pen loses in the May 7th final, Euroskepticism isn't going to go away completely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:28:22 am

Well, yes. I meant, for a time being. Obviously. But for the next several years...

it's EuroUnity time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 09:54:58 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 07:38:49 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 07:31:21 am

It's 100% all but guaranteed at this point.

The complacency sets in

Unlike with previous elections, there isn't a single poll that predicts Le Pen winning. Unlike with previous Brexit and USA elections, the gap in votes is not 2-3%, but a full-on 20%.

This is not complacency, this is a statement of the factual reality based on cold, hard facts that there hasn't been a single candidate in history that overcame such odds without blatant cheating, and that two weeks isn't nearly enough to make a full 1/5th of France's voting population switch sides.

This election is over for your side, LW. Euroscepticism has lost in France. It's just a matter of technical formalities to make it official.

On the contrary, I think Euroscepticism is on the rise and will continue to rise, albeit not at the level that will allow Le Pen to win in May. If you consider from the perspective that 21% of French voters choose Le Pen despite having three other 'viable options', as compared to 2012 when she only got 17.9%, then it's pretty clear that Eurosceptics are growing in number.

I think it's kind of like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, in that this isn't so much a victory for globalism, but a defeat for the far right, if that distinction is useful. Pretty sure such a scenario would have been unthinkable in 2007.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:11:08 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 10:14:36 am

No, they did not. I am going to repeat this until I am blue in the face- the polls in the US were within margin of error to the actual results, across every single state. What the media reported was a whole bunch of cherry-picked bullshit, but the polls were not wrong.

Being wrong within margin of error =/= Being correct, that said its validity does not have much bearing in how Clinton's apparent lead was taken as good reason to grow complacent. If the polls were 100% accurate and were correct in calling Trump's lead, the same lessons would apply to his campaign. "If polls were 100% accurate and 100% reliable for each moment in time they were taken, times change, and with it people's intentions." Never give up until you've finally won. Why you would give up because a poll is telling you you're winning, even if the poll is true at that time and will continue to be true to the future - is beyond me.

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 10:14:36 am

The polls were not wrong!

Yes they were m8
" Yes, the election polls were wrong. Here's why. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/polls-wrong-donald-trump-election)"

Quote

We treat polls like weather forecasts – but voters are inherently unpredictable. A hunger for certainty sets expectations that are impossible to meet. The polls were wrong. And because we are obsessed with predicting opinions rather than listening to them, we didn’t see it coming. So, the world woke up believing that Republican candidate Donald Trump had a 15% chance of winning based on polling predictions – roughly the same chance of rolling a total of six if you have two dice. Despite those odds, the next US president will be Donald Trump.
I have a few ideas about what went wrong. In the four years I’ve spent as a data journalist, I’ve been concerned by how much faith the public has placed in polling. Just like you’d check the weather before getting dressed, many people checked presidential polling numbers before heading out to vote. That’s understandable. Politics can feel as unpredictable as the weather, and who wouldn’t want to eliminate uncertainty? The world is a scary and confusing place right now.
But those are two very different kinds of forecasts. One is based on natural science, the other on social science. People are different from planets – they can change their minds, they can decide to not share their opinions or they can flat-out lie. And that’s before you even get to some of the statistical issues that make polling inaccurate.
That’s not new information.

This is all I've been saying.

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 10:14:36 am

As for Brexit? I will admit, polling error in the UK tends to be larger than in the US, so in that case I will concede that the polling had issues for Brexit. But for fuck's sake stop waving around the media fuckup in the US as if polls are somehow fundamentally wrong or not working. Shitty reporting is responsible for the premature circlejerk in the US, not polls. The polls showed a close race with the potential for a Clinton win or a Trump win with him losing the popular vote, and the latter happened. For someone who appears very aware of media bias, you sure seem to be buying it hook, line, and sinker when it comes to all the media outlets these days blaming the polls to cover their asses on how they fucked up reporting for a year.

For God's sakes are any of you going to read my posts before criticizing me? That is my argument. It is like I said, pollsters could be 100% accurate and this problem would still remain.

Quote

I don't think French pollsters suck exceptionally, I just find it foolish to buy into the sort of strategizing that ignores their own eyes and reason in favour of the assumptions predicated on polls.

First sentence. Right there. French pollsters don't suck. Media that declare wars won before battles have begun instill complacency. Politicians that prefer consulting polls to people suck at campaigning. People assuming they've won before they've done the work needed to win will be surprised eventually. In this specific example - winning the election will not be the same as victory.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

Unlike with previous elections, there isn't a single poll that predicts Le Pen winning. Unlike with previous Brexit and USA elections, the gap in votes is not 2-3%, but a full-on 20%.
This is not complacency, this is a statement of the factual reality based on cold, hard facts that there hasn't been a single candidate in history that overcame such odds without blatant cheating, and that two weeks isn't nearly enough to make a full 1/5th of France's voting population switch sides.

I feel like I'm wasting my time.

Quote

"because something hasn't ever happened, it won't happen" - is flawed thinking.

If he loses out of complacency, that's one thing. If he wins a victory over a nation united alongside him, but not behind him - in the absence of FN, the inward turmoil will be immediate. In the UK, our politicians stopped listening to people, because they instead looked to see how they polled, divvying up safe seats to honoured members without actually listening to or putting in the work needed to serve their voters. What happened? The election was polled to be neck and neck between Labour and Tory, yet resulted in a Tory landslide and the EU referendum getting put on the table, with the Cameron Premiership running off of polls - not learning anything, and suffering the same fate as labour in the referendum. This mindset of maximizing victory with information analysis without putting in the work needed to actually convince people to follow you is bizarre, it is like throwing away all principles of leadership and good governance in favour of empty victories. Without an answer to why the Far-right and Far-left have grown in France, it will only continue to grow. Does not take a genius to figure that out, in victory you will just be sowing the seeds for a future clash.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

This election is over for your side, LW. Euroscepticism has lost in France. It's just a matter of technical formalities to make it official.

"My side?" Excuse you? Technical formalities? The sheer arrogance is extremely repellent, God knows that has always been the appeal to many populist groups. If you tell people their votes don't matter and that the matter is already won - a mere issue of technical formalities, your supporters will not inconvenience themselves with the effort needed to vote, and those on the fence will be repelled by the smug attitude that they are unneeded and unsought for.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:28:22 am

Well, yes. I meant, for a time being. Obviously. But for the next several years...

it's EuroUnity time

Which is about as optimistic as thinking winning the war in Iraq means Freedom time (http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1050&intPageId=1870&langId=en).
I can never be sure with you and the EU Sergarr, as you have ironically supported it in a deliberately obnoxious fashion before, thus I wonder now if you act this way in order to undermine the EU and make people opposed to it - I've seen shilling done by Anons in this manner on social media before. Few things can as readily turn someone to the cause you like than an obnoxious endorsement of "the other side."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:36:36 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 11:21:56 am

For fuck's sake when I say that you're eating into what they say and your rebuttal is linking the exact shit that they're saying, that does not make for a goddamn rebuttel.
A piece before the election (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-just-a-normal-polling-error-behind-clinton/) saying he is just within a polling margin of error behind Clinton.

Quote

This is not to say the election was a toss-up in mid-October, which was one of the high-water marks of the campaign for Clinton. But while a Trump win was unlikely, it should hardly have been unthinkable. And yet the Times, famous for its “to be sure” equivocations, wasn’t even contemplating the possibility of a Trump victory.
It’s hard to reread this coverage without recalling Sean Trende’s essay on “unthinkability bias,” which he wrote in the wake of the Brexit vote. Just as was the case in the U.S. presidential election, voting on the referendum had split strongly along class, education and regional lines, with voters outside of London and without advanced degrees being much more likely to vote to leave the EU. The reporters covering the Brexit campaign, on the other hand, were disproportionately well-educated and principally based in London. They tended to read ambiguous signs — anything from polls to the musings of taxi drivers — as portending a Remain win, and many of them never really processed the idea that Britain could vote to leave the EU until it actually happened.
So did journalists in Washington and London make the apocryphal Pauline Kael mistake, refusing to believe that Trump or Brexit could win because nobody they knew was voting for them? That’s not quite what Trende was arguing. Instead, it’s that political experts4 aren’t a very diverse group and tend to place a lot of faith in the opinions of other experts and other members of the political establishment. Once a consensus view is established, it tends to reinforce itself until and unless there’s very compelling evidence for the contrary position. Social media, especially Twitter, can amplify the groupthink further. It can be an echo chamber.

M8 we've come the same conclusion. This is the only thing we disagree on (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html?action=click&contentCollection=upshot&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront), which is of no concern to me. Is the Guardian lying to cover their own arse? Do I care? If the polls were accurate, if the polls were inaccurate, the same problems would remain in how people overly rely upon them, growing complacent and arrogant.

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 11:21:56 am

It's funny that that article you linked has her lament about how "disillusioned" she was at FiveThirtyEight despite the fact that they got it right. She seems hella inclined to try and imply that they got it wrong with her phrasing, but she can't say that they got it wrong, because they were right. She's not disillusioned at the site; she's disillusioned because they managed to call it and she couldn't. What better thing to do, then, then blame what you were given rather than say "I fucked up"?

Are you not focusing too much on a Nate vs Mona bullshit? Liberal media today, the inheritors tomorrow. I don't want my dudes to make this mistake, I don't want your dudes to make this mistake, I don't want liberals to make this mistake, it makes everything objectively worse for everyone. Perhaps this is because I don't care about polling, but I don't see the point in squabbling about which e-celeb is right. This is bigger than them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:42:41 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 11:38:17 am

Then actually say that instead of saying that the "polls were wrong", as you have been.

As much as I would like to say that, if that would mean I got to discuss my argument, the polls were wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:11:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

Unlike with previous elections, there isn't a single poll that predicts Le Pen winning. Unlike with previous Brexit and USA elections, the gap in votes is not 2-3%, but a full-on 20%.
This is not complacency, this is a statement of the factual reality based on cold, hard facts that there hasn't been a single candidate in history that overcame such odds without blatant cheating, and that two weeks isn't nearly enough to make a full 1/5th of France's voting population switch sides.

I feel like I'm wasting my time.

Quote

"because something hasn't ever happened, it won't happen" - is flawed thinking.

If he loses out of complacency, that's one thing. If he wins a victory over a nation united alongside him, but not behind him - in the absence of FN, the inward turmoil will be immediate. In the UK, our politicians stopped listening to people, because they instead looked to see how they polled, divvying up safe seats to honoured members without actually listening to or putting in the work needed to serve their voters. What happened? The election was polled to be neck and neck between Labour and Tory, yet resulted in a Tory landslide and the EU referendum getting put on the table, with the Cameron Premiership running off of polls - not learning anything, and suffering the same fate as labour in the referendum. This mindset of maximizing victory with information analysis without putting in the work needed to actually convince people to follow you is bizarre, it is like throwing away all principles of leadership and good governance in favour of empty victories. Without an answer to why the Far-right and Far-left have grown in France, it will only continue to grow. Does not take a genius to figure that out, in victory you will just be sowing the seeds for a future clash.

To rally the people is the job of Macron the Savior of France, which he's doing with excellence par none. I'm just an observer, who's stating facts. No election without cheating (which automatically excludes the UK election you mentioned, seeing as there's still an ongoing investigation of Tories' election fraud) has resulted in polling being wrong by that much. That's a fact. Of course, events may happen that could render it impossible. For instance, a meteorite shower could descend on Earth and kill all non-FN French via precision space-stoning. There are many possibilities, but if we stay within realistic bounds, En Marche! has already won.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:11:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:20:59 am

This election is over for your side, LW. Euroscepticism has lost in France. It's just a matter of technical formalities to make it official.

"My side?" Excuse you? Technical formalities? The sheer arrogance is extremely repellent, God knows that has always been the appeal to many populist groups. If you tell people their votes don't matter and that the matter is already won - a mere issue of technical formalities, your supporters will not inconvenience themselves with the effort needed to vote, and those on the fence will be repelled by the smug attitude that they are unneeded and unsought for.

Don't worry, you'll have a chance to get back to EUrope once you realize the folly of your "independence" ways. On EUrope conditions, of course.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:11:08 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 09:28:22 am

Well, yes. I meant, for a time being. Obviously. But for the next several years...

it's EuroUnity time

Which is about as optimistic as thinking winning the war in Iraq means Freedom time (http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1050&intPageId=1870&langId=en).
I can never be sure with you and the EU Sergarr, as you have ironically supported it in a deliberately obnoxious fashion before, thus I wonder now if you act this way in order to undermine the EU and make people opposed to it - I've seen shilling done by Anons in this manner on social media before. Few things can as readily turn someone to the cause you like than an obnoxious endorsement of "the other side."

To put it bluntly, your graphs mean nothing. The unity will be achieved as long as there's political will to do so - and the Brexit/Trump combination has given the governments of Europe just the right kind of impulse in that direction. No other factors really matter. USA enjoys even starker degrees of financial equality, yet even hints of separatism are met with nearly-universal scorn and calls to bring in the troops to suppress them.

It's just a matter of creating a European Army, and within short period of time, the only thing remaining would be to formalize the birth of the new European Unity. If that "Shultz" dude wins in Germany, it could happen in as little as 10 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on April 24, 2017, 12:40:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 11:42:41 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 11:38:17 am

Then actually say that instead of saying that the "polls were wrong", as you have been.

As much as I would like to say that, if that would mean I got to discuss my argument, the polls were wrong.

No.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To put it bluntly, your graphs mean nothing. The unity will be achieved as long as there's political will to do so - and the Brexit/Trump combination has given the governments of Europe just the right kind of impulse in that direction. No other factors really matter. USA enjoys even starker degrees of financial equality, yet even hints of separatism are met with nearly-universal scorn and calls to bring in the troops to suppress them.

It's just a matter of creating a European Army, and within short period of time, the only thing remaining would be to formalize the birth of the new European Unity. If that "Shultz" dude wins in Germany, it could happen in as little as 10 years.

Er I disagree with 90% of LW's post, but you're being awfully optimistic here. There are deep cracks within the European Union which, while they don't threaten its foundations and stability, nevertheless prevent it from growing closer. The economic inequality-political unity comparison with the US is facile. The USA started out as a single nation with a common culture and government, the colonies, which grew over the continent while subsuming and destroying other native cultures and nations. It is thus more culturally and politically united than the EU, which grows by taking over already-extant national cultures and promoting European identity on top, but doesn't suppress them. Also, the US fought a pretty bloody war to prove the point that states are de facto not allowed to leave the union, contributing to the anti-separatist mindset while the UK is now leaving the EU absent any military repercussion (saber-waving over Gibraltar aside).

And creating an European Army is not "just a matter", given that you're talking about armed forces that don't even use the same languages, to say nothing of the nightmare of organisational structures and logistics that would ensue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 01:02:46 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To put it bluntly, your graphs mean nothing. The unity will be achieved as long as there's political will to do so - and the Brexit/Trump combination has given the governments of Europe just the right kind of impulse in that direction. No other factors really matter. USA enjoys even starker degrees of financial equality, yet even hints of separatism are met with nearly-universal scorn and calls to bring in the troops to suppress them.

It's just a matter of creating a European Army, and within short period of time, the only thing remaining would be to formalize the birth of the new European Unity. If that "Shultz" dude wins in Germany, it could happen in as little as 10 years.

Er I disagree with 90% of LW's post, but you're being awfully optimistic here. There are deep cracks within the European Union which, while they don't threaten its foundations and stability, nevertheless prevent it from growing closer. The economic inequality-political unity comparison with the US is facile. The USA started out as a single nation with a common culture and government, the colonies, which grew over the continent while subsuming and destroying other native cultures and nations. It is thus more culturally and politically united than the EU, which grows by taking over already-extant national cultures and promoting European identity on top, but doesn't suppress them. Also, the US fought a pretty bloody war to prove the point that states are de facto not allowed to leave the union, contributing to the anti-separatist mindset while the UK is now leaving the EU absent any military repercussion (saber-waving over Gibraltar aside).

I'm being optimistic because this is the first major victory for the side of progressive thought in the last period. I'm feeling positively elated. I'm sure it's just temporary, but still.

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

And creating an European Army is not "just a matter", given that you're talking about armed forces that don't even use the same languages, to say nothing of the nightmare of organisational structures and logistics that would ensue.

Actually, it would be pretty easy. You know, because most EU countries that have military are a part of NATO. Most of the work on introducing the unified command language and decision systems has already been done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 24, 2017, 01:04:40 pm

It will not happen in near future because there is little will to further advance the integration in many(most) countries... let alone combine militaries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To rally the people is the job of Macron the Savior of France, which he's doing with excellence par none. I'm just an observer, who's stating facts. No election without cheating (which automatically excludes the UK election you mentioned, seeing as there's still an ongoing investigation of Tories' election fraud) has resulted in polling being wrong by that much. That's a fact. Of course, events may happen that could render it impossible. For instance, a meteorite shower could descend on Earth and kill all non-FN French via precision space-stoning. There are many possibilities, but if we stay within realistic bounds, En Marche! has already won.

First off, the Tories are not under investigation - they're trying to block it, and we need to push them until they relent and Cameron's feet are on the fire. Secondly, that would not exclude the UK election I mentioned, as I'm talking about the General Election - the election you think you're talking about is actually the Thanet By-election in South Thanet (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-election-win-over-nigel-farage-at-south-thanet-could-be-void-due-to-expenses-scandal-judge-says-a7060791.html) and you can be rest assured, are based Nige becoming an MP is an interesting prospect to say the least. The second thing is all you're doing is shoring up your subjective prejudices, not stating facts. Your argument is that it is impossible, because no previous case is known to you, therefore it is impossible.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

Don't worry, you'll have a chance to get back to EUrope once you realize the folly of your "independence" ways. On EUrope conditions, of course.

Cheeki breeki i love eu now

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To put it bluntly, your graphs mean nothing.

What they mean is cutting taxes for corporations whilst not dealing with the poor and unemployed is simply going to exacerbate the disaffected populace of France, which is ripe for populist movements promising a change from the usual business. Simple as m8

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

The unity will be achieved as long as there's political will to do so - and the Brexit/Trump combination has given the governments of Europe just the right kind of impulse in that direction. No other factors really matter.

The political will for unity exists right now. Doesn't seem to be helping calm down the ignored & downtrodden yuropoors that all their politicians, really, really want a unified Europe. Political will must translate into meaningful action, otherwise it's just ambitions and words. Ignoring all the disaffected yuropoors as "other factors" that don't "really matter" is not going to make them go away, while ignoring the other factors which produce them is just going to increase their numbers

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

USA enjoys even starker degrees of financial equality, yet even hints of separatism are met with nearly-universal scorn and calls to bring in the troops to suppress them.

Yeah let's just ignore that the USA's starker degrees of financial equality resulted in Donald Trump getting elected.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

It's just a matter of creating a European Army, and within short period of time, the only thing remaining would be to formalize the birth of the new European Unity. If that "Shultz" dude wins in Germany, it could happen in as little as 10 years.

You know I'm gonna just ignore the logistical legend that would be forming an EU army in 10 years, cos deploying soldiers against revolting French peasantry, there's never been a historical case of that failing in France
I suppose European Unity is very convincing coming from a baton versus a baguette. Maybe you like guillotines, cos that's how you get guillotines
I love that as well, respond to the "insignificant factors" of people resenting EU overreach of power, by creating a military with which to police them. Hahaha

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 12:35:48 pm

You aren't Trump. You don't have the magical power to repeat falsehoods until they become truth.

I suppose our fundamental disagreement is that I don't see the polls calling the victory wrong within margin of error, as well, right, while I see polls accurately declaring the result correctly as correct. It is either calling the correct result, or it is not - and it did not. I don't see how you can expect me to rationalize the polls calling a Clinton victory is false, simply because news media interpreted likely victory as landslide victory. I don't see 100% accuracy as all that achievable either, especially given earlier concerns of demographics, or even just what time the polls were taken. In the UK for example, our 2015 GE polls were rubbish - except until a few hours before the voting ended, wherein the exit polls were more or less spot on. Not terribly useful either way, and to call me false Trumpian is rather pointless ;P

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 12:35:48 pm

As to your actual point (that reliance on polls breeds complacency), you're completely right. People don't realize that one has to actually put in the effort to maintain their position; polls just offer a snapshot into a brief window of the electorate. Even a burning building has a few windows without smoke or flame. Problem is when people start to try throwing parties in those rooms.

Aye, though that is a colourful metaphor. Reminds me of the everythingisfine.jpg

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 01:33:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

I love that as well, respond to the "insignificant factors" of people resenting EU overreach of power, by creating a military with which to police them. Hahaha

Pretty sure that he didn't mention anything about using the hypothetical European military to police EU citizens.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 01:02:46 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

And creating an European Army is not "just a matter", given that you're talking about armed forces that don't even use the same languages, to say nothing of the nightmare of organisational structures and logistics that would ensue.

Actually, it would be pretty easy. You know, because most EU countries that have military are a part of NATO. Most of the work on introducing the unified command language and decision systems has already been done.

NATO is hardly a good example to cite in forming an European military, given that the US is approximately two-thirds of it and US interests dominate. And within NATO, only four others met their stated goals of spending 2% of GDP on defence. It's clear that European countries in NATO aren't all that invested in it, which calls into question your point that NATO already promotes a unified language and command structure. It's more likely that an European military will exist on paper and the occasional training exercise only. Also important to note that while NATO nominally commands parts of the militaries of its member states, a huge amount of freedom is still in the hands of the member states. Does NATO regulate army recruitment, defence procurement, pay structures or the like?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2017, 01:35:54 pm

I have the solution to the EU not integrating further. We should found a new political party in each EU member state. A single issue party for joining the UK. Make the Brexit great again!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 24, 2017, 02:04:14 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 01:33:28 pm

Does NATO regulate army recruitment, defence procurement, pay structures or the like?

It doesnt, really.

And despite all the regulations and standardization they've tried to implement, after over half a century of trying they still lack such basic things as a common rank system(they do have a placeholder-like system), or basic rifle cartridge(s), clothing and protective systems, let alone the more advanced stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To rally the people is the job of Macron the Savior of France, which he's doing with excellence par none. I'm just an observer, who's stating facts. No election without cheating (which automatically excludes the UK election you mentioned, seeing as there's still an ongoing investigation of Tories' election fraud) has resulted in polling being wrong by that much. That's a fact. Of course, events may happen that could render it impossible. For instance, a meteorite shower could descend on Earth and kill all non-FN French via precision space-stoning. There are many possibilities, but if we stay within realistic bounds, En Marche! has already won.

First off, the Tories are not under investigation - they're trying to block it, and we need to push them until they relent and Cameron's feet are on the fire. Secondly, that would not exclude the UK election I mentioned, as I'm talking about the General Election - the election you think you're talking about is actually the Thanet By-election in South Thanet (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-election-win-over-nigel-farage-at-south-thanet-could-be-void-due-to-expenses-scandal-judge-says-a7060791.html) and you can be rest assured, are based Nige becoming an MP is an interesting prospect to say the least. The second thing is all you're doing is shoring up your subjective prejudices, not stating facts. Your argument is that it is impossible, because no previous case is known to you, therefore it is impossible.

And your argument is that because you think it's possible, it's possible, no facts needed. It's pure metaphysical bullshit, in other words.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

Don't worry, you'll have a chance to get back to EUrope once you realize the folly of your "independence" ways. On EUrope conditions, of course.

Cheeki breeki i love eu now

Embrace the eu and bask in its sacred glory, m8

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

To put it bluntly, your graphs mean nothing.

What they mean is cutting taxes for corporations whilst not dealing with the poor and unemployed is simply going to exacerbate the disaffected populace of France, which is ripe for populist movements promising a change from the usual business. Simple as m8

You know what, you're right about that. Macron's platform is populist, that promises change from the usual business, by marching towards the ideals of Europe at full speed instead of making compromises with the local saboteurs. France is ripe for such movement, which is why he won the election.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

USA enjoys even starker degrees of financial equality, yet even hints of separatism are met with nearly-universal scorn and calls to bring in the troops to suppress them.

Yeah let's just ignore that the USA's starker degrees of financial equality resulted in Donald Trump getting elected.

Trump was elected by uneducated people, not poor. (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/) Something that Europe has less problems with, being significantly more urbanized and all.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 24, 2017, 01:07:07 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 11:53:51 am

It's just a matter of creating a European Army, and within short period of time, the only thing remaining would be to formalize the birth of the new European Unity. If that "Shultz" dude wins in Germany, it could happen in as little as 10 years.

You know I'm gonna just ignore the logistical legend that would be forming an EU army in 10 years, cos deploying soldiers against revolting French peasantry, there's never been a historical case of that failing in France
I suppose European Unity is very convincing coming from a baton versus a baguette. Maybe you like guillotines, cos that's how you get guillotines
I love that as well, respond to the "insignificant factors" of people resenting EU overreach of power, by creating a military with which to police them. Hahaha

It's telling that the first thing you think about is using an army to quell the people you don't like with physical force. Which is, actually, not what I was thinking about. A unified European army means that people from various countries get to know each other in person for a long period of time without the possibility of evading social interaction due to the rigid structure of an army, and nothing destroys irrational xenophobia and prejudices faster than that.

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 01:33:28 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 01:02:46 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

And creating an European Army is not "just a matter", given that you're talking about armed forces that don't even use the same languages, to say nothing of the nightmare of organisational structures and logistics that would ensue.

Actually, it would be pretty easy. You know, because most EU countries that have military are a part of NATO. Most of the work on introducing the unified command language and decision systems has already been done.

NATO is hardly a good example to cite in forming an European military, given that the US is approximately two-thirds of it and US interests dominate. And within NATO, only four others met their stated goals of spending 2% of GDP on defence. It's clear that European countries in NATO aren't all that invested in it, which calls into question your point that NATO already promotes a unified language and command structure. It's more likely that an European military will exist on paper and the occasional training exercise only. Also important to note that while NATO nominally commands parts of the militaries of its member states, a huge amount of freedom is still in the hands of the member states. Does NATO regulate army recruitment, defence procurement, pay structures or the like?

NATO's very existence promotes a unified language and command structure. You can't exactly have a military force where there's a possibility of two officers speaking two different languages and not understanding each other, or a military force where two officers do not know which one is superior and which one should be subordinate.

The "2% of spending" is not an official NATO rule, it's something USA invented in order to fuel its stupidly large military-industrial complex by finding new markets to sell its stuff to. Obviously, European countries has refused to do so, except for ones that are directly threatened by Russia. Then again, they would've done so anyway, after Ukrainian events.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on April 24, 2017, 02:21:16 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

The "2% of spending" is not an official NATO rule, it's something USA invented in order to fuel its stupidly large military-industrial complex by finding new markets to sell its stuff to. Obviously, European countries has refused to do so, except for ones that are directly threatened by Russia. Then again, they would've done so anyway, after Ukrainian events.

Its something they agreed together... Although I dont think theres ever been sanctions for not spending the 2 %. Most equipment and services bought by European defence ministries are bought from within Europe any way. Fighter aircraft are one of the exceptions where major money does indeed money go to USA, but even there many European nations are active participants of the developement and manufacturing, such as in the case of the F-35, for example.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.iiss.org/-/media//images/military%20balance%20blog/2016/february/nato-european-defence-spending-2015.jpg?h=304&w=630&la=en)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 03:03:57 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 01:02:46 pm

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 12:47:30 pm

And creating an European Army is not "just a matter", given that you're talking about armed forces that don't even use the same languages, to say nothing of the nightmare of organisational structures and logistics that would ensue.

Actually, it would be pretty easy. You know, because most EU countries that have military are a part of NATO. Most of the work on introducing the unified command language and decision systems has already been done.

English is already used as a Lingua Franca between international militaries, but when it comes to the rank and file, that could be a concern, dunno.

@sergarr: Not neccesarily uneducated, plenty of them have highschool, but it's true that Trump won bigger in places with low college education.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 24, 2017, 03:08:41 pm

TBH even expecting it from ranking officers is probably too much

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on April 24, 2017, 03:21:21 pm

The idea of the EU army being forced by circumstance to speak the language of the country that left (among other things) over the push for its formation is pretty hilarious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 03:30:15 pm

Quote from: Baffler on April 24, 2017, 03:21:21 pm

The idea of the EU army being forced by circumstance to speak the language of the country that left (among other things) over the push for its formation is pretty hilarious.

It's also not entirely unprecedented. India still has English as its official language, despite kicking the British occupants out, because it was the only option that was equally neutral to each of the nations inside.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 03:43:41 pm

Well, English is kind of the fallback option I suppose because it's already used so much internationally.

If you wanted to choose a language other than English, how would you choose? (warning, huge image) There are three major groups of languages in Europe (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Languages_of_Europe.svg), Germanic (English, German, Swedish, etc), Romance languages (everything descended from Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, etc), and Slavic (Russian, Polish, Serbian, etc). French and German have been Lingua Francas in the past, but with so many diverse languages, how do you pick one that is to be used in common throughout an EU army.

What Sergarr said, English is already used widely and is seen as a pretty neutral one to use. Although the French would insist on French being used instead, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 24, 2017, 05:24:34 pm

Quote from: Baffler on April 24, 2017, 03:21:21 pm

The idea of the EU army being forced by circumstance to speak the language of the country that left (among other things) over the push for its formation is pretty hilarious.

its not English its Merican. totally different.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on April 24, 2017, 06:17:32 pm

Le Pen leaves leadership role of FN, citing need to be "above partisanship." (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39696861) Very interesting, though it seems she's left her way back to control of the party open if she should lose the election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 24, 2017, 06:31:53 pm

In non frog news: Lel have fun with that. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-un-womens-right-commission-un-watch-middle-east-muslim-driving-clothes-a7698536.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 06:39:30 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on April 24, 2017, 06:31:53 pm

In non frog news: Lel have fun with that. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-un-womens-right-commission-un-watch-middle-east-muslim-driving-clothes-a7698536.html)

That's just so stupid......

The same kind of problem also exists for the UN Human Rights commission, those that don't exactly have a great human rights record are on there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2017, 01:44:05 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 24, 2017, 03:43:41 pm

Well, English is kind of the fallback option I suppose because it's already used so much internationally.

If you wanted to choose a language other than English, how would you choose? (warning, huge image) There are three major groups of languages in Europe (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Languages_of_Europe.svg), Germanic (English, German, Swedish, etc), Romance languages (everything descended from Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, etc), and Slavic (Russian, Polish, Serbian, etc). French and German have been Lingua Francas in the past, but with so many diverse languages, how do you pick one that is to be used in common throughout an EU army.

What Sergarr said, English is already used widely and is seen as a pretty neutral one to use. Although the French would insist on French being used instead, heh.

The only solution is to go Full Basque.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Alastar on April 25, 2017, 02:23:54 am

We could just fall back to Latin, used to work well enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: helmacon on April 25, 2017, 02:37:45 am

Quote from: Alastar on April 25, 2017, 02:23:54 am

We could just fall back to Latin, used to work well enough.

It is equally neutral to all the states in that no one knows it. (Except, ya know, the Vatican)

Pope for combined European warlord!! What could go wrong?!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2017, 04:16:12 am

Quote from: Alastar on April 25, 2017, 02:23:54 am

We could just fall back to Latin, used to work well enough.

Why would we want to speak the language of old conquerors and oppressors?

Actually if anything Occitan should be the main language just to fuck with the French.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 25, 2017, 07:17:23 am

Quote from: TempAcc on April 24, 2017, 06:31:53 pm

In non frog news: Lel have fun with that. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-un-womens-right-commission-un-watch-middle-east-muslim-driving-clothes-a7698536.html)

What does this have to do with the EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on April 25, 2017, 07:41:56 am

I just wanted an excuse to call the french frogs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 25, 2017, 09:32:08 am

Quote from: helmacon on April 25, 2017, 02:37:45 am

Quote from: Alastar on April 25, 2017, 02:23:54 am

We could just fall back to Latin, used to work well enough.

It is equally neutral to all the states in that no one knows it. (Except, ya know, the Vatican)

Pope for combined European warlord!! What could go wrong?!

https://youtu.be/eR4J5vzAyTs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on April 25, 2017, 09:50:27 am

English has been the Lingua franca of the world for more than a few years now. There's a reason why it's the air control standard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on April 25, 2017, 01:21:42 pm

Make Esperanto great again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on April 25, 2017, 01:50:55 pm

Quote from: Arx on April 25, 2017, 01:21:42 pm

Make Esperanto great again.

Ankoraŭ ne, frato.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 26, 2017, 05:15:26 am

Just heard that Mélenchon's spokesman called for "not a single vote to Le Pen".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 26, 2017, 05:19:58 am

It was a given. Seriously, did anyone actually believe that a hard-leftist like Melenchon would support a fascist party?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2017, 05:37:52 am

Quote from: scriver on April 24, 2017, 09:20:31 am

It's easy to forget that le Penne has made built her road to this election by mirroring the socialist wing. Maccheroncelli supporters going to her over of neo-liberal Macaroni is not unthinkable, but I wouldn't think there would be many of them.

But I guess that refers more to the voters than Melechon himself though. Regardless, him supporting a hard-right neoliberal is just as hard to believe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 26, 2017, 05:45:54 am

He doesnt really lose anything. He gets a highish proportion of seats, and makes a stand against fascism in an election round in which he is not taking place. He can vote against any and every law Macron proposes, afterwards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2017, 05:54:59 am

Speaking of voting against things, Sweden's government (social democratic party and environment party) is refusing to make public whether they voted for or against the Saudi joining the UN Women's Right Council. Which likely means that they voted for it. And then they have the gall to pay themselves on the back for what they call a feminist foreign policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 26, 2017, 05:58:20 am

Swedish women also want their own private chauffeur, just like the Saudi women.

While ofcourse I'm being sarcastic, I did see a documentary by a journalist interviewing women in Saudi Arabia recently.
There were a lot of women saying they don't want to be allowed to drive, because they'll lose their private chauffeur, who doesn't only drive them, but picks up the kids from school, helps with the groceries etc etc. They fear losing their free time.

Some of the young generation women though would like to be able to drive, and have the freedom to move about unattended.

Must be said, the interviewer only spoke to rich people. Saudi are very good at keeping those less well off away from journalists. I'm sure the less well off women don't have their personal chauffeur.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2017, 05:28:59 am

A summary on predicted vote transfers in the French second round. (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/04/24/who-will-fillon-melenchon-supporters-vote-for/)

Spoiler: note that the gap between Macron and Le Pen is almost twice as big as the amount of abstentions (click to show/hide)

(http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/files/2017/04/french-elections-transfers.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on April 27, 2017, 06:45:51 am

I would have liked to see a projection of how the first-round absent voters would vote in the second, but unfortunately that's not possible due to the methodology. But yeah, Le Pen's not looking likely to win this one. Interesting to see that Melenchon voters are the most picky, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 27, 2017, 07:04:30 am

Quote from: Azzuro on April 27, 2017, 06:45:51 am

I would have liked to see a projection of how the first-round absent voters would vote in the second, but unfortunately that's not possible due to the methodology. But yeah, Le Pen's not looking likely to win this one. Interesting to see that Melenchon voters are the most picky, though.

Not much, they are real leftist, and the kind of neoliberal economic policies advocated by Macron disgusts them. My FB feed is about 90% disgruntled Melanchonist complaining about Macron right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2017, 08:16:12 am

Some... interesting story about, allegedly, a German soldier successfully posing as a Syrian refugee and being caught for preparing a terrorist attack. (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-soldat-wegen-terrorverdacht-festgenommen-a-1145085.html)

What. How. Why.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 27, 2017, 09:18:28 am

Quote from: Sergarr on April 27, 2017, 08:16:12 am

Some... interesting story about, allegedly, a German soldier successfully posing as a Syrian refugee and being caught for preparing a terrorist attack. (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-soldat-wegen-terrorverdacht-festgenommen-a-1145085.html)

What. How. Why.

A false flag if I understand correctly? Ahah, that's weird as fuck. I'm sure his case officer were really proud of how their refugee was making progress in German too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 27, 2017, 09:32:19 am

Could any German speaker confirm if it says it was a false flag attack? Because I am quite certain the German army doesn't discriminate against Muslims or Germans of non-German descent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 27, 2017, 09:50:22 am

The article says that the man led a double life as a Syrian refugee, and it is assumed, according to the justice department, that his motive is hate of immigrants.
He was arrested in february, when he tried to retrieve a firearm he had hidden in the airport of Vienna in january.

A friend of the man has also been arrested. A 24 year old student from Offenbach.
In intercepted conversations between the two, by the police, both have expressed extreme right ideas, and hate of foreigners.
When the police searched the student's flat, they found explosives.

While the police cannot say with certainty what the men's motives are, they seriously consider the two were preparing a terror attack for which immigrants would get the blame.

Meanwhile, a force of 90 police officers, and intelligence officers from the German, Austrian and French security services have conducted raids on 16 premises spread across Germany, Austria and France in connection to the case.

So yeah, looks like false flag indeed. Looks like that's becoming a trend in Germany. The attack on the football bus was also a false flag. Personally, I think even a double false flag.
(I think the German-Russian guy whose supposed motive was financial gain was a Russian agent who thought he could make some money on the side of his job)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on April 27, 2017, 01:28:26 pm

No agent would've done the stupid shit that guy has.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 27, 2017, 02:38:04 pm

It wouldn't be the first time an intelligence service recruit a dumbass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2017, 06:35:33 pm

Spoiler: sum replies (click to show/hide)

Quote from: martinuzz on April 24, 2017, 01:35:54 pm

I have the solution to the EU not integrating further. We should found a new political party in each EU member state. A single issue party for joining the UK. Make the Brexit great again!

Missed opportunity to make GB G again
GBG party

Quote from: Ispil on April 24, 2017, 01:13:04 pm

-snip-
Though I might actually be wrong in my inclusion of "polling error" here. Regardless though, it's all a matter of intervals.
Of course, no one ever frames it as such.

I've nought to add except I thought it worth mentioning you changed my mind on that

Quote from: Azzuro on April 24, 2017, 01:33:28 pm

Pretty sure that he didn't mention anything about using the hypothetical European military to police EU citizens.

I have never seen someone who desired to construct a hegemonic military force for reasons any more benign than internal security.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

And your argument is that because you think it's possible, it's possible, no facts needed. It's pure metaphysical bullshit, in other words.

Quote

Far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen turned an appliance factory into a battleground Wednesday for France's blue-collar vote, upstaging rival Emmanuel Macron with a surprise campaign stop at the plant threatened with closure.
Chaotic scenes followed as Macron, a pro-European Union centrist, sought to wrestle back the initiative by making his own, impromptu stop at the Whirlpool clothes-dryer plant in Amiens, spending over an hour in Le Pen's wake trying to reason with angry employees who asked why the former finance minister hadn't come there earlier.
The remarkable drama, broadcast live on French news channels, transformed the plant in northern France into a symbol of the diametrically opposed campaigns of Le Pen and Macron before their May 7 runoff election.
As Macron met elsewhere with the workers' union leaders, Le Pen displayed her political guile by grabbing the spotlight and popping up outside the factory itself. Surrounded by employees in bright-yellow hazard vests, she declared herself the workers' candidate and vowed that if elected, she would not let the factory close.
"We'll get you out of here," Le Pen said as she hugged a woman in the crowd outside the plant, its fences decorated with workers' banners. "I am the candidate of workers, the candidate of the French who don't want their jobs taken away."
Her wily campaign maneuver stole Macron's thunder and put him on the defensive. It prompted him to make his own trip to the factory a few hours later — which quickly looked like he had fallen into a trap set by Le Pen. Live TV coverage of his visit looked chaotic and potentially damaging, with people whistling, booing and chanting "Marine, president!" in the background.
"Why didn't you come before?" one woman asked.
"Save our jobs, Monsieur Macron!" yelled a man.
But Macron, appearing in a suit and tie amid the workers, held his ground. Where Le Pen's visit was short — with a few selfies, hugs, kisses and a quick speech to the cameras — Macron spent over an hour patiently, and at times passionately, explaining in often-heated exchanges that as president, he wouldn't be able to stop companies from laying off workers. The back and forth was shown live on Macron's Facebook page, signaling a desire not to let Le Pen hog the limelight.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/frances-le-pen-upstages-rival-macron-stop-factory-47026786

Tbh I need to just make a hella Jeff macro "I warned you about the complacency bro, I warned you and it keeps happening." It's possible because this is a contest and one must not be entirely short-sighted to forget that after this election, the victor has a country to govern - learn well from the example of are based Nige, who, losing general elections, was nevertheless capable with patience of delivering a winning referendum to leave the EU. Marine Le Pen's ambitions are considerably larger, and I am concerned her ambitions for France will bite off more than she can chew, yet I know for certain that if she is defeated today she and her successors will continue to be an emerging threat to the European Union. All else on why I have said all I have said I've given earlier, if you do not want to discuss it we need not tbh

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

Embrace the eu and bask in its sacred glory, m8

u were supposed to bring balance to the union, not destroy it

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

You know what, you're right about that. Macron's platform is populist, that promises change from the usual business, by marching towards the ideals of Europe at full speed instead of making compromises with the local saboteurs. France is ripe for such movement, which is why he won the election.

That would be more convincing if he was not a minister from the previous government who was a Rothschild banker promising tax cuts for corporations and power consolidation under the European Union who wishes to continue the previous government's open border policy. That's identical to all the previous neoliberal ministers... I have not known the French socialist government to be opposed to EU consolidation. Lmao @ 'local saboteurs', EU'll make a spylord of you yet

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

Trump was elected by uneducated people, not poor. (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/) Something that Europe has less problems with, being significantly more urbanized and all.

"Haha stupid poor people can't afford education, look how uneducated they are"
I don't know if the French government can solve this by subsidizing education, and by extension whether the EU can solve this through the same means, but it certainly would provide much benefits from increased productivity per person. Furthermore, better educated people usually have access to the tools to create better business, commerce or careers, and people who have stable and productive lives are usually content with the status quo if the status quo does not infringe upon their rights.

Quote

No single political upheaval has shaken the world—and by many measures, people are generally richer, healthier, better educated and living in less violent societies than ever before. But the world today is also far more divided between rich and poor than it was a quarter-century ago: The 10 wealthiest people on the planet collectively hold $505 billion, more than most countries produce every year, according to Forbes. There’s also an increased sense that the very rich buy political influence, perhaps more than ever. Increased migration has revealed how many in the West remain hostile to outsiders—from Syrian refugees to Polish or Honduran immigrants; champions of globalization had assumed that sort of animus had waned. And social media and information technology have accelerated our ability to form closed, like-minded groups—and to get very angry at one another in public without apparent consequence.
As defined, populism—ideas intended to give ordinary people what they want—seems beneficent. But is what the people want now as violent as their leaders’ rhetoric? And with insurgencies mounting from east and west to throw out the elites in cosmopolitan cities like Paris and Amsterdam, which side will prevail? —Matt McAllester
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/12/02/europe-right-wing-nationalism-populist-revolt-trump-putin-524119.html

One of the startling things I found was how the sense of injustice in regards to wealth in particular was and still is exceptionally relative - looking back at the Americans who protested on wall street, I was stunned by just how immensely wealthy the protesters were in comparison to the world. Yet that pales in comparison to the wealth possessed by the people to whom they were protesting against, wherein people find incredible distaste in their governments serving as viceroys on the payroll to wealthy plutocrats to whom ordinary people have no chance of ever reaching any human connection with, and will eternally arouse paranoia, envy and injustice for as long as the power discrepancy is so vast. Thus the never-ending revolts against elite classes, which if left untackled, will continue to outrage and mobilize vast numbers of disaffected people. To learn from Brexit, what use was a well-educated cosmopolitan, preaching the merits of Slovakian maids, foreign investments and French wines, to an unemployed fishmonger who had no conception of a financial portfolio?
Under these conditions Marxists and Nationalists thrive. It took 6 years for the UK parliament to be run by liberals, liberals and liberals, to conservatives, marxists and nationalists, but it took 15 years to get to that 6 years. As to how the French solve that, I wish them best of luck but I don't really know tbh, this is something Macron will need to make priority #1 to win, and if he wins.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

It's telling that the first thing you think about is using an army to quell the people you don't like with physical force. Which is, actually, not what I was thinking about. A unified European army means that people from various countries get to know each other in person for a long period of time without the possibility of evading social interaction due to the rigid structure of an army, and nothing destroys irrational xenophobia and prejudices faster than that.

I posed a problem, that if the EU simply ignores the millions of Europeans who do not like the EU and oppose its centralization efforts, its efforts will merely increase the backlash. You answered that by saying the creation of a single EU army would solve this problem.
Ah, but it is I who is evil for asking why you think a single EU army would make its opposition disappear? That is very cheeky, I do not expect a Russian to be naive to the uses of military internal garrisoning duties, a military force is in its foremost purpose, a military force. But I do know what you mean, though you must understand there is a great cultural difference between Western conceptions of military and civilian life versus Eastern European (including Russia) or Chinese conceptions of military and civilian life. In the West, there are not millions of reservists which naturally reduces the impact the military has on civilian life, and while the military units of the Western nations allow people of all backgrounds to be socially mobile through meritocratic action, this is pretty much limited to tens of thousands of people per country out of populations of hundreds of millions of Europeans (with obvious exception to the USA, whose military is vast). The European Officer class having common camaraderie would in time stand a good chance of influencing the entire armed forces of Europe, yet would not be a meaningful dent in the population without a great expansion in recruitment from disaffected rural areas of Europe - it would do no good to simply take those already pro-EU and make them pro-EU, one must recruit those who are anti-EU and make them pro-EU, and do so on a meaningful scale. The Europeans are rather opposed to being drafted for obvious reasons (usually for reasons related to men with funny hats or mustaches), so perhaps you envisage a pan-national service or cadet organization? Such a thing would have a much larger reach of population, and be crucial in targeting the young Europeans who will consist of future decision makers and supporters alike. Enlist all 18 year olds into a branch of the armed euroforce^tm, deploy them in another corner of Yurop to that they are from for a year (or even just 3 months if lost productivity or budgeting is an issue), hey presto you make new Europeans. I suppose the issue therein lies in that Europeans are naturally predisposed towards opposing such a concept, and if one makes it voluntary, there would have to be great incentives involved otherwise it would only attract people who are already pro-EU. Thus I imagine it could work if it offered service in exchange for education scholarships, which would kill two birds with one stone, attracting Europeans from poorer backgrounds who would otherwise be excluded from education for economic reasons, and would also be the Europeans most likely to support Marxists or Nationalists.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

NATO's very existence promotes a unified language and command structure. You can't exactly have a military force where there's a possibility of two officers speaking two different languages and not understanding each other, or a military force where two officers do not know which one is superior and which one should be subordinate.

Good luck telling the Eastern Europeans that the unified command structure will be divorced from the United States, and that they, with the support of Europeans who do not put money into their military, will stand alone against the Russian Federation. This is the first and greatest issue with a European army: You go from having one command structure, to two, one command structure with Americans, another without.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 24, 2017, 02:14:26 pm

The "2% of spending" is not an official NATO rule, it's something USA invented in order to fuel its stupidly large military-industrial complex by finding new markets to sell its stuff to. Obviously, European countries has refused to do so, except for ones that are directly threatened by Russia. Then again, they would've done so anyway, after Ukrainian events.

"Europeans are freeloading on Britain, Canada and US in Afghanistan (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/4240957/John-Hutton-says-Europeans-are-freeloading-on-Britain-and-US-in-Afghanistan.html)

Quote

In a speech to European and American security experts and diplomats at the Wilton Park conference centre in Sussex, Mr Hutton will suggest that the reticence of some Nato members has left a small group of countries including Britain, the US and Canada to do an unfair share of the fighting and dying in Afghanistan.
He will say: "It isn't good enough to always look to the US for political, financial and military cover. And this imbalance will not be addressed by parcelling up Nato tasks - the 'hard' military ones for the US and a few others and the 'soft' diplomatic ones for the majority of Europeans."

- 2009. I suppose part of the reason why UK-EU military cooperation did not produce the camaraderie and love you suggested such experience would produce, was that such military cooperation was half-hearted and left the sacrifices to be made by everyone else. The story is the same under Obama (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/blog/2016/mar/11/barack-obama-right-criticise-natos-free-riders-course-he-is) as it is under Trump (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/782459/European-Union-military-experts-say-EU-cannot-rely-on-US-defence-Trump), provided Europe can equally share the costs of war in lives and materiel then a single armed force could potentially be able to meet both its internal and external security commitments without the USA's direct involvement, if it cannot, the divisions between the military and defenceless states of Europe will simply grow wider - patriots will naturally grow incensed when their fellows enter the grave while their neighbour did nothing to assist.
Thus I believe the single greatest issue facing a potential EU military force is simply getting all European nations to contribute. Language barriers are significant, but not insurmountable - there is a great European precedent to learn from, in that the Austrian Hapsburg Empire was able to organize and deploy its army effectively despite its vast multilingual nature. In order to thwart nationalism, it could  deploy South Slavs in Italy, Italians in Hungary, Hungarians in the Balkans, Bohemians in Poland, Poles in Austria and Austrians in Bohemia. That is to say nothing of its mixed regiments! Thus the EU could respond to the issue of the official language being English by simply not having one sole official language, instead having a multiplicity of official languages. Interestingly as well, the Austro-Hungarian Army's only concern, was that its government allocated the barest minimum to its budget, requiring British subsidies to function - replace the former and latter with Europe and the USA, and we arrive to the modern the world.

Quote from: Sergarr on April 27, 2017, 08:16:12 am

Some... interesting story about, allegedly, a German soldier successfully posing as a Syrian refugee and being caught for preparing a terrorist attack. (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-soldat-wegen-terrorverdacht-festgenommen-a-1145085.html)
What. How. Why.

Quote

To investigators’ astonishment, they found that the lieutenant, who was posted to a joint Franco-German unit in France, was also living some of the time as a Syrian asylum-seeker at a refugee shelter in Germany.
He first presented himself as an asylum-seeker in December 2015, in the midst of the influx of more than 1 million migrants who flooded into the country under Angela Merkel’s “open-door” refugee policy.
He was given a place to stay in a refugee shelter in the town of Giessen, near Frankfurt, and formally applied for asylum under a false name in January 2016.
Prosectors were at a loss to explain how he was able to register as a Syrian asylum-seeker despite the fact he speaks no Arabic and is not believed to be of Syrian origin. The authorities raised no suspicion at the time of his application.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/german-soldier-spent-year-posing-syrian-refugee-arrested-suspicion/

The Europeans have some of the worst security protocols in the world, that is to say, they don't use them. At this point I tell you, everything is possible in Europe, it is a marvelous place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 27, 2017, 07:02:30 pm

So, one week has passed. And one week remains until the second round. How does the polling look?

Spoiler: I'd say it looks quite "shite" for Madame Le Pen (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-b1Pt9XkAEbscQ.jpg)

So much for all of the Russian "melenchon the kingmaker" shitty propaganda.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 27, 2017, 07:14:01 pm

Well... the only poll that matters is the one that actually matters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 07:18:32 pm

I'd wait until the actual election to see if the polls are correct.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2017, 07:25:58 pm

>Russians calling other people Russian propaganda
Dr. Pavel I'm CIA

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 27, 2017, 07:26:12 pm

No reason to think the polls aren't correct. French polls have been historically accurate, and these demonstrate a lack of significant movement over this past week with or without a large protest vote. Even if Le Pen has got shy voters, she'd have to overcome the top of her error distribution multiple times to break 50%.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but let's not act like being alt-right just means you win against all odds. Didn't happen in the Netherlands with Geert Wilders, and he was in a way better position than Le Pen. Even if all the communists stay home, Macron has the endorsement of all the rest of the left, the vigorous endorsement of the center, and even some endorsement from the center-right. Le Pen's base is the far-right and let this motherfucker burn voters, which just doesn't stack up.

If anything, I suspect National Front's history will still come back to bite it, even with Jean-Marie Le Pen expelled. "I'm just saying, we don't know that neo-nazis are bad people" is a hard reputation to shake.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 07:31:49 pm

I'm just giving it a good dose of skepticism after the polling faliure in the US since I don't know all that much about the way the French do their polling, like if they're making the same mistake the US did.

Most likely it's accurate though, and Clinton never had that big of a lead on Trump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 27, 2017, 07:36:32 pm

apparently while everyone has been distracted by the EU and US the Balkans are at it again.

http://www.politico.eu/article/albania-prime-minister-edi-rama-eu-faces-nightmare-if-balkans-denied/
http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-nato-urge-calm-after-macedonia-violence/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 07:46:40 pm

The Balkans have been a powderkeg since the Romans.

Though, the 'little union' (as the Albanian PM describes it) is interesting. That is going to be problematic however all right, because there is still a Serbian minority in there, and that minority is going to become an even smaller minority.

Seems like a consequence of the breakup of Yugoslavia not going along ethnic lines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 07:52:01 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 27, 2017, 07:47:21 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 07:31:49 pm

I'm just giving it a good dose of skepticism after the polling faliure in the US since I don't know all that much about the way the French do their polling, like if they're making the same mistake the US did.

Most likely it's accurate though, and Clinton never had that big of a lead on Trump.

2 percentage point lead, with an error range that gave the result that we saw with about 30% chance.

Stupid Electoral College though. Enough inserting Ameripol into the Europol thread however.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2017, 08:02:06 pm

Yeah, the US election started looking like it would be a typically competitive and close election, and that's how it came out, despite claims of wipeouts by Hillary.

Anyway, on the Albanian-Kosovo thing, I looked around at Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Albania), and as of 2007, most Kosovars wanted to remain as they were. But, that was 10 years ago and right before they delcared independence. In the article, looks like the opposition party in Kosovo want to join into an union and Albanian nationalists want that too.

That said, any kind of border change or shift is going to majorly unsettle the Balkans, which is a bit sabre rattly on the best of days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 28, 2017, 03:57:56 am

Quote from: Ispil on April 27, 2017, 07:53:22 pm

Statistically, Le Pen would require an unprecedented polling error to win.

Which would be all the more surprising since the first round polls were so accurate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 04:00:42 am

Just in case, I think I'll go copyright 'Le Pen, du vin et du Boursin'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2017, 09:21:54 am

Possible coup in Macedonia (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-27/coup-masked-men-storm-macedonia-parliament-live-feed)

Quote

Today's action was condemned by European Union Commissioner Johannes Hahn, who said “violence has no place in parliament,” according to his post on Twitter.

balkan boogaloo 2

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2017, 09:30:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 04:00:42 am

Just in case, I think I'll go copyright 'Le Pen, du vin et du Boursin'

What's a Boursin?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 09:34:47 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqn7NTwIwmk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqn7NTwIwmk)

this one better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxuK53tdFl8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 28, 2017, 09:40:55 am

They actually ran the first TV ad in France. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FcNmyJnPvg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2017, 09:42:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 09:34:47 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqn7NTwIwmk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqn7NTwIwmk)

this one better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxuK53tdFl8

Lolwut the second one with being oblivious to the wheat thresher incoming. Also, looked like the guy was trying to grab the girls ass at first in the second one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 09:46:05 am

Wouldn't be surprised. Sexual innuendo was the norm rather than taboo, for a lot of Boursin commercials (and many other contemporary commercials for that matter).

In other news, Macron managed to get into a diplomatic fight with RUssia even before becoming president.
He forbade the RUssian tv media RT, press agency Sputnik (both run by the Russian government) from attending his campaign meetings, accusing them of spreading Russian state propaganda and fake news.

The Russian ministry of foreign affairs has reacted, calling it a scandal, and deliberate and unveiled discrimination against the Russian media, "and this happens in a country that has always been vigilant on guarding freedom of opinion".

Margarita Simonjan, editor in chief of RT says this is the beginning of the end of freedom of speech in France.

Macron's staff sticks to their statement that RT and Sputnik are systematically and deliberately spreading false news to damage the pro European candidate.
In februari, RT spread a rumor that Macron is gay, even though he is married to a twenty year older woman. This forced Macron to deny this publicly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 28, 2017, 09:57:50 am

Some more info on that factory visit thing that Russian media (and Loud Whispers) spinned as Le Pen's "victory" (http://www.france24.com/en/20170427-france-macron-takes-le-pen-whirlpool-dryer-plant-wins-election-campaign-spin-cycle-amiens).

Quote

“I don’t consider that a presidential campaign is for pulpit remarks with promises that can’t be kept. So I am not doing it for Whirlpool. I didn’t seize on cases in progress, hot-topic restructuring cases, because that is complete demagoguery, speaking frankly,” Macron told Ruffin on France 2. “That was done five years ago, 10 years ago… My silence, it isn’t indifference. My silence is a refusal to manipulate situations. It’s too easy. Because what am I going to do? I’m going to get up on a truck and say ‘With me, it won’t close,’ and everyone knows it isn’t true.”
Minutes later, Macron arrived and the striking workers let him have it. “Marine Présidente!” they cried out. “Get lost!”, “Dirty banker!” others called out. Eventually, the independent centrist was able to invite workers behind the factory gates for a long, lively discussion, away from the cameras. His campaign did broadcast the 45-minute exchange on Facebook Live, a feed picked up live across the 24-hour news networks and featured on nightly news broadcasts.

The battery on the microphone he was using – and passing around for long questions and comments from workers, union representatives, and Ruffin himself, who was there, too – gave out after 35 minutes. “It doesn’t matter,” he said, and spoke louder to make himself heard. He told the workers what he could do for them if elected, in particular not signing off on Whirlpool’s redundancy plan if it isn’t appropriate and seeking a credible buyer with a sustainable solution to save the plant’s jobs.

But in contrast to the populist note struck by Le Pen, he was straight with the workers, telling them what he couldn’t do, too. “Banning the payment of dividends or forbidding a company from closing a site it has decided to close is not possible, would even be counterproductive,” he said. “Why? Because there is a freedom of enterprise and free property in our democracy,” he said. "So on that, I won’t bring an answer because it’s not true. If I do that, no one will come invest in France,” he explained.

The in-depth exchange concluded far more calmly than it had begun, with handshakes all around. In the event, Macron made good on an opportunity to sound and look presidential that Le Pen effectively handed him, leaving her lightning incursion looking frivolous.

“In coming to provoke him in his native city, Marine Le Pen offered Emmanuel Macron an occasion to show that he wasn’t afraid of initiating physical contact with employees that are victims of wage competition in Europe,” local regional newspaper La Voix du Nord editorialised on Thursday morning. “The Whirlpool sequence in front of the cameras marks the real launch of the second-round campaign. It remains to be seen whether 10 minutes of smiling selfies will be more effective than three quarters of an hour of tense dialogue on the search for a solution for [the plant’s] recovery.”

He's the Savior of France and the Europe. It's him!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 01:12:57 pm

The Dutch-Jewish organisation CIDI (Center for Information and Documentation Israel) is urging the government to take action, and considering filing official charges with the police, after they discovered that a dutch alt-right website has been posting an online database with the names, occupations and adresses of jews in the Netherlands, and a databse of companies that 'represent the jewish influence in the Netherlands'. With the databases comes a request to website visitors to report any jew they know, to be added to the database, to 'assist with mapping the jew influence in the Netherlands and Belgium'.
The site also provides a list of 'enemies of the people of the Netherlands', which supposedly lists 'people and organisations which are hostile to the European people, and especially out people'.
There's also a photograph of Hitler on the site, with the text 'it's someone special's birthday hurray, hurray!'. Hitler's birthday was last week.
Another article on the site has as headline 'jew jewcons other jews'.

Since CIDI went public earlier today, the website AltRechts.com can no longer be reached.
"This reminds just too much of the lists made by the national socialists of jews and half jews, so they could be segregated. These dispicable and dangerous activities will need to be stopped immediatly. We do not need to remind you what violent anti-semites could do with the help of such a list".

CIDI considers filing charges with the The Hague police department. On basis of violation of privacy laws of the persons mentioned on the list, a court case could me made. However, taking the site offline immediatly, as demanded by CIDI, will be hard, since it is hosted in another country.
This means that this would have to go through the court of the nation in question, which tends to be a long procedure.
Another possibility would be to make the providers block the site.

According to CIDI, the site is hosted from Panama, but other sources report it is being hosted from the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 28, 2017, 01:42:53 pm

The neo-Nazis are getting quite bold, to be moving into the open like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 03:51:24 pm

I have the same question. It makes sense in the past but why still?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 28, 2017, 03:56:33 pm

Well that's damn scary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2017, 04:16:16 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 03:51:24 pm

I have the same question. It makes sense in the past but why still?

A cheap racist excuse is a cheap racist excuse. Why would it be any different now from back then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 28, 2017, 04:38:21 pm

By all accounts, the "original" reason why people believe in conspiracies being committed by Jews seems to be their simultaneous presence and exclusion from society in pre-industrial Europe. Jews are present and visible, but have limited interaction with most of the population. They have an entirely different culture which is unknown to most besides what connections they draw from church services describing them.

This forms an easy (and ironic) scapegoat. If children go missing, maybe the Jews took them, because they wanted to make them Jews. If people start dying, maybe the Jews poisoned us, because we come into conflict with them. If the Jews appear nearly immune to a disease, maybe they called on the Devil to inflict Christians with that disease. So on and so forth.

The modern incarnation of this seems to start with, who else, Hitler. He crafted the idea of a link between the Jews, communists, and international banking. That last one specifically is going to be important for what we're seeing right now. So Hitler goes with the promotion of an "international Bolshevik Jewish conspiracy" to explain how Germany lost WWI in spite of being so powerful. And huh, critical of internationalism, isn't that a familiar line?

So the current strain of antisemitism is, in many ways, a cut-out for general nativist, nationalist thought against an alleged social circle of "internationalists" who are trying to cut up and disperse [sgValueNationName] for the greater cause of communism/capitalism/Zionism/whatever. Some neo-nazis have exposed this quite neatly with their walking back of the crazy rhetoric by saying that there are "Real Jews" that are the wealthy shadowy conspirators, while 99% of the Jewish population are just cat's paws and smokescreens for "actual" Jews.

Since there's no clear name or identity for a social circle of shadowy internationalist menaces, it should come as no surprise that so many people inclined to think that way have picked up Mein Kampf and been all "Holy shit, he knew!". They slap the "it was the Jews" sticker on and call it a day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 04:41:41 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2017, 04:16:16 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 03:51:24 pm

I have the same question. It makes sense in the past but why still?

A cheap racist excuse is a cheap racist excuse. Why would it be any different now from back then?

mostly because back then Jews were of a minority religion in a vary religious time where that was very important. they also had a separate culture that wouldn't integrate in a broadly xenophobic time and were used as scapegoats constantly. you would think now days they would be no more remarkable then any other oppressed minority of which their are many to choose from. but for some reason its always the Jews that are the focus over everyone else still.

edit: MSH to the rescue

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2017, 05:11:09 pm

Meanwhile, Macedonia is in unrest, after an angry nationalist mob stormed parliament yesterday, armed with chairs and other hard objects, protesting against an Albanian becoming the new chairman of parliament. About hundred people were injured, including Zoran Zaev, the social democrat opposition leader. He was injured to the face.
In 2001, ethnic conflict almost sparked civil war, which was narrowly prevented by international negotiations.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/dreigt-er-nu-een-burgeroorlog-in-macedonie-en-nog-vijf-vragen-over-de-politieke-crisis~a4491461/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/dreigt-er-nu-een-burgeroorlog-in-macedonie-en-nog-vijf-vragen-over-de-politieke-crisis~a4491461/)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39738865

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 29, 2017, 04:37:12 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 04:41:41 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2017, 04:16:16 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 28, 2017, 03:51:24 pm

I have the same question. It makes sense in the past but why still?

A cheap racist excuse is a cheap racist excuse. Why would it be any different now from back then?

mostly because back then Jews were of a minority religion in a vary religious time where that was very important. they also had a separate culture that wouldn't integrate in a broadly xenophobic time and were used as scapegoats constantly. you would think now days they would be no more remarkable then any other oppressed minority of which their are many to choose from. but for some reason its always the Jews that are the focus over everyone else still.

edit: MSH to the rescue

Well, it was never "only" the jews. You seem to forget that they got rounded up along with other minorities as well (muslims, Roma, whatnot).   Back then as well as now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 29, 2017, 06:25:17 am

Global conspiracy-focused antisemitism really starts in the 19th century, with the impressive rise of a few successful Jewish people into visible, public figures of wealth (the Rothschilds are the best example) or political influence (Disraeli). Now you could link the troubling new bourgeois world order with Jewish influence, though on the other hand Marx's role in socialism also let people paint socialism as a Jewish plot - antisemitists sure got to have it all ways. Nationalism also brought up the question of the Jews place in society and predictably the answers were often hostile (even though many Jews had more or less assimilated seamlessly).

Then you get the creation of the Protocol of the Elders of Zion in 1903 by Tsarist secret police (Jews were a popular scapegoat for the Russian Empire) and its spread with Whites fleeing after the Civil War. The fact the thing was proven to be a forgery in 1923 didn't interest anybody - you got nice fellas like Henry Ford sponsoring its publication. Meanwhile, De Gobineau and co. advanced pseudo-scientific intellectual antisemitism (he came up with the idea of the Aryan master race). In Hitler's native Austria the populist antisemitist Karl Lueger was very influential.

My point is that Hitler hardly came up with any of his stuff on his own. He advanced a lot of it to extremes, but the basis for that kind of extremism already existed. Given the same power and circumstances (Hitler didn't start with the Final Solution, either), I think a lot of individuals in the period could've done the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 29, 2017, 10:51:04 am

Our main airport Schiphol is almost drowning in it's success. Traveller numbers have been increasing so explosively, that the airport directors and management have a crisis meeting coming wednesday, about how to deal with the hours long queues that have been plagueing passengers with delays, and missed flights this spring season. Apparently 216000 travellers per day is more than the check in counters and security checkpoints can handle. Queues are sometimes so long, that they branch out into another terminal altogether.
Wednesday direction and management will meet with labour unions and private security services to negotiate more staff, and more security gates.
According to the labour union FNV, it is advisable to train and educate more security guards, to assist with checkpoints.

Normally, Schiphol does not do it's own security. It is outsourced to private security companies. However, all the private security companies combined do not have enough staff to supply the airport. With quick action taken to train and educate new security, the shortage could be fixed in 6 months.

Our government also intervenes. The state secretary has invited Schiphol management, and KLM management to meet with her. She said the long queues are bad for the imago of the airport. KLM, Schiphol's largest customer blames Schiphol for allowing the low price airlines grow way too fast, without investing adequately in new terminals, roads, and staff.
Other parties also blame KLM itself, for adding many new sunny destinations, while they were aware that Schiphol was over capacity.

https://youtu.be/1NBVrPRxcv0 (https://youtu.be/1NBVrPRxcv0)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 29, 2017, 01:10:19 pm

I've only been through Schiphol a few times, is the security stuff at the gates a regular thing, or just for people at the airport switching flights? If you know, anyway...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 29, 2017, 03:09:21 pm

Clearly Wikipedia is supporting 'Gulenist lies'™

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arcvasti on April 29, 2017, 03:29:13 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 29, 2017, 01:26:51 pm

Since Turkey is kind of relevant with their ties to the EU, and I can't recall any thread where it'd be more appropriate:

Turkey has blocked Wikipedia without giving a reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39754909) (But apparently they asked Wikipedia to remove content "supporting terror"(which, being Turkey, likely means "The truth")).

I imagine that the thing that annoyed them was probably the following bit:

Quote from: Wikipedia-Turkish Constitutional Referendum 2017

The campaign was marred by allegations of state suppression against 'No' campaigners, while the 'Yes' campaign were able to make use of state facilities and funding to organise rallies and campaign events. Leading members of the 'No' campaign, which included many high-profile former members of the MHP such as Meral Akşener, Ümit Özdağ, Sinan Oğan, and Yusuf Halaçoğlu were all subject to both violence and campaign restrictions. The 'Yes' campaign were faced with campaigning restrictions by several European countries, with the German, Dutch, Danish and Swiss governments all cancelling or requesting the suspension of 'Yes' campaign events directed at Turkish voters living abroad. The restrictions caused a sharp deterioration in diplomatic relations and caused a diplomatic crisis between Turkey and the Netherlands. Concerns were also raised about voting irregularities, with 'Yes' voters in Germany being caught attempting to vote more than once and also being found to have been in possession of ballot papers before the overseas voting process had started. European election monitors said the vote did not meet international standards.

I imagine its probably kind of annoying for there to be a well-known and somewhat respected website presenting criticism of your farce of a coronation referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 29, 2017, 03:43:08 pm

I have this song stuck in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF4XHz6RHeI


I'm particularily fascinated by the midget with a guitar. Now I want to hire a midget to dance and play the guitar while we do the ward round.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 29, 2017, 04:06:41 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 29, 2017, 01:26:51 pm

Since Turkey is kind of relevant with their ties to the EU, and I can't recall any thread where it'd be more appropriate:

Turkey has blocked Wikipedia without giving a reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39754909) (But apparently they asked Wikipedia to remove content "supporting terror"(which, being Turkey, likely means "The truth")).

What I've heard, Turkey did not ask wikipedia to remove content "supporting terror", they asked wikipedia to remove any of their pages that imply in any way that Turkey supports, or has supported terrorism. When wikipedia denied that, they decided to block all wikipedia pages.
Turks interviewed on the street however say this is not the right way to go about things, and seem convinced the ban will be lifted before too long, when the government realizes this won't work.

Quote from: hector13 on April 29, 2017, 01:10:19 pm

I've only been through Schiphol a few times, is the security stuff at the gates a regular thing, or just for people at the airport switching flights? If you know, anyway...

No idea, the last time I used Schiphol must be over 20 years ago. This was back in another reality timeline, before 9/11.
Nowadays, I would fly Schiphol, if only I could afford a train ticket to Amsterdam. It's crazy. A pricefighter airline retour ticket to Barcelona, or Rome, taking off from the airport at my home town, is cheaper than a train retour ticket to Amsterdam. (I've seen retour flights to Barcelona for 35 euros, airport tax included, a retour ticket for the train to Amsterdam is nearly 50 euros, unless you have a membership card. which takes 40% off all prices). Yes, flying 2000km is cheaper than 100km of train ticket.

EDIT: I would go protest against this crime against the environment if I could afford the train ticket to go protest in Amsterdam.
How to stop democratic protests against the government? Simple, make people no longer be able to afford the transportation the the important places of protest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 29, 2017, 07:28:07 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 29, 2017, 04:06:41 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 29, 2017, 01:26:51 pm

Since Turkey is kind of relevant with their ties to the EU, and I can't recall any thread where it'd be more appropriate:

Turkey has blocked Wikipedia without giving a reason (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39754909) (But apparently they asked Wikipedia to remove content "supporting terror"(which, being Turkey, likely means "The truth")).

What I've heard, Turkey did not ask wikipedia to remove content "supporting terror", they asked wikipedia to remove any of their pages that imply in any way that Turkey supports, or has supported terrorism. When wikipedia denied that, they decided to block all wikipedia pages.
Turks interviewed on the street however say this is not the right way to go about things, and seem convinced the ban will be lifted before too long, when the government realizes this won't work.

Given Wikipedias track record, did they really think Wikipedia would actually comply?

In other Europe news, Montenegro has ratified NATO membership and will become a full member in June (http://www.politico.eu/article/montenegros-parliament-ratifies-nato-membership/).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 29, 2017, 08:57:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 29, 2017, 07:28:07 pm

In other Europe news, Montenegro has ratified NATO membership and will become a full member in June (http://www.politico.eu/article/montenegros-parliament-ratifies-nato-membership/).

Obviously this means that Russia will start a war in May.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on April 29, 2017, 10:03:26 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on April 29, 2017, 08:57:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 29, 2017, 07:28:07 pm

In other Europe news, Montenegro has ratified NATO membership and will become a full member in June (http://www.politico.eu/article/montenegros-parliament-ratifies-nato-membership/).

Obviously this means that Russia will start a war in May.

And do what? Annex Montenegro? Kaliningrad on the Adriatic? Not that annexation would make things much worse, honestly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 29, 2017, 10:16:36 pm

It's also TINY. It joining NATO is more about safety in a group than providing firepower. At least that's how I see it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 30, 2017, 02:29:30 pm

Next, after wikipedia, Turkey has now banned dating shows on radio and television.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 30, 2017, 02:33:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 30, 2017, 02:29:30 pm

Next, after wikipedia, Turkey has now banned dating shows on radio and television.

Yeah, something about some of them not meeting conservative Islamic values and the sancity of marriage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on April 30, 2017, 05:30:15 pm

Yep, Turkey is going full speed towards a typical pseudo-theocratic Middle Eastern shithole. The backwards rurals have multiplied and radicalized in place, and thus have seized power through force of numbers. No saving it now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 01, 2017, 02:16:34 am

Heh, Le Pen, in a desperate attempt to please more voters, has shifted her stance from being against the EU and against the Euro to pro-EU and no longer anti-euro.
"I feel European", she said, and "getting back the French franc is no longer a nescessary condition for my economic policy".

Dayum, that 180. Next, before you know, she'll be denying the holocaust after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 01, 2017, 02:42:56 am

Fucking what. Did a fragment of 2016 from a burst timeline rewrite part of Le Pen's brain or something? I thought Euroskepticism was among her base issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 01, 2017, 02:44:17 am

Now she's euroskepticism-lite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on May 01, 2017, 03:23:58 am

Wat.

I'll believe it when she renames her party to European Front.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on May 01, 2017, 04:25:40 am

Le Pen spins me right round, baby~

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 01, 2017, 05:10:24 am

Well, it's only fitting, since Macron has decided swing the other way just now. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39766334) What even are French politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 01, 2017, 05:18:49 am

Edit: like I said, pinch of salt. As it turns out...

The headline is very misleading. Look at the actual quote:

"So I do consider that my mandate, the day after, will be at the same time to reform in depth the European Union and our European project."
Mr Macron added that if he were to allow the EU to continue to function as it was would be a "betrayal".
"And I don't want to do so," he said. "Because the day after, we will have a Frexit or we will have [Ms Le Pen's] National Front (FN) again.""

So he's concerned about Le Pen and similar people gaining momentum if the EU doesnt reform itself.


I... tend to agree, in principle at least. I'm not too fond of the EU because of it's treatment of those in Southern Europe, particularily Greece. However, I also know of many instances where the EU has helped enact fairer labor laws. And I'm concerned that a break orchestrated by the likes of Farage or Le Pen will only lead to adch-conservatism, and a delliberate undermining of the welfare state. I suspect that's part of the plan, even, and I think it should be a major concern, PARTICULARILY if you are in favor of Brexit, because odds are that neocon politicians are planning to use it as an excuse to do exactly this. 

I think those of you in the UK should be particularily militant and watchful for cuts to the NHS (direct or indirect), worker's rights, and research and development. Odds are that they will try to sell those to you as "optimization", "necessary sacrifices", or heaven knows what.

And those of you in Europe should be watchful for the same, in case these calls for reform actually hide "reform into an even shittier EU".  Beware any measure that affects worker's rights, beware calls for austerity, beware the 'two speeds Europe'. Any and all of these can actually hide the same agenda that neocons doubtlessly have for the UK.


 I have this suspicion that what we endured around 2010 was just the drizzle and now the storm is arriving.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2017, 06:32:15 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 01, 2017, 05:18:49 am

And I'm concerned that a break orchestrated by the likes of Farage or Le Pen will only lead to adch-conservatism, and a delliberate undermining of the welfare state.

I am far less concerned about conservatives undermining the welfare state than I am of neoliberals doing it.

Quote

neocon

I don't think there is such a thing as neocon which refers to actual conservatives, just what the americans call neoliberals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2017, 07:34:27 am

wait wat
Le Pen pro EU
Macron anti EU
Did we just get alternate timeline'd

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 01, 2017, 07:37:42 am

Quote

The main theory I've seen there is that the Cons are deliberately defunding it so that they can go "Look, it's performing poorly. It'll perform better if privatised".

Heh heh heh. This happens everywhere.

They're not wrong, either, so I'd take to the streets if I were you.

Spoiler: The next step is to grant hospital management to "private managing companies". Wait and see how that turns out.  ;)


(BTW: what the hell is a HYS)


Anyway, I can tell you that NHS coverage is surprisingly miserly in several regards. In particular, in the last week I learned (or rather, confirmed) that the avaiability of certain advanced haem/onc treatments is severely (and surprisingly) restricted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 01, 2017, 12:25:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 01, 2017, 06:32:15 am

Quote

neocon

I don't think there is such a thing as neocon which refers to actual conservatives, just what the americans call neoliberals.

Neocons aren't neoliberals. Neoconservativism is....was the primary ideology of the Republicans, an amalgamate of religious fervor, interventionism, and laissez-faire economics as one system of belief instead of a multifaceted grouping of those as factions.

This is distinct from neoliberalism, who's greatest similarity is a desire for laissez-faire policies to benefit transnational corporations but is otherwise opposed to neocon policies.

I don't think you quite have neocons in Europe though, or at least not this century. It seems to be the kind of ideology that only exists when you have people who want to hegemonize the entire world under their nation. Russia has some people like this, and to a lesser degree so does China and India.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 01, 2017, 12:31:50 pm

The terminology is used differently in the US and EU. Let's put it this way. Would you agree that for someone from the US, Thatcher and Reagan would be neocon?
For Europeans, they are called neoliberals. What US call neoliberal, is usually just classified as liberal in Europe. The term neocon does not exist in European terminology, or at least used to not exist, nowadays it's a repeat offender for confusing the hell out of conversations between US and EU, we now have arrived at a situation where both terms are interchangeable in the EU, and two different things in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2017, 12:36:15 pm

I thought Yuros just called them Thatcherites cos then you can just sidestep the silly neolib neocon nonsense

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2017, 12:42:20 pm

"New Labour".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2017, 12:43:17 pm

Now New Labour are commmies and "New Labour" are Old Labour

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 01, 2017, 12:43:51 pm

"New Laor", even.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 03, 2017, 06:46:36 am

In Belgium, the suspect in the infamous 'castle murder' 5 years ago, has confessed. He confessed that he hired 3 hitmen to take out the castle owner, his son in law.
Belgian public opinion is split. A lot of Belgians think the man deserves no punishment for the murder.

Three months before the deadly incident, in which the castle owner was shot, and his castle burned with the body inside, the man's father in law, a respected village doctor, had reported his son in law to the authorities for alleged sexual abuse of his children (the doctor's grandchildren). However, his son in law had friends within the justice department that protected him, and the accusations went unheard.
According to the man's defense lawyers, this left the grandfather with no choice. When he heard that his son in law was planning to move to Australia, he feared so much for the safety of his grandchildren, that he contacted an old friend, well known in the criminal circuit, and asked him to contact a squad of 3 hitmen. According to his lawyers, this was the only option left to him, since the justice department would not investigate the matter. "The wellbeing of his grandchildren was the only thing he could think of", according to the lawyers.

Accusations of covering up pedophilia by the justice department are still a very sensitive subject in Belgium, even 21 years after the Dutroux affair.
The defendant has a huge following of supporters, who believe the man should not be punished for the murder, but instead, a statue should be built in his honour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 03, 2017, 07:07:44 am

I have no idea what you are referring to. None of the news site I follow mention this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Azzuro on May 03, 2017, 07:28:01 am

After some googling, I believe he's referring to this:
http://nltimes.nl/2017/05/03/father-law-confesses-belgian-lords-castle-murder (http://nltimes.nl/2017/05/03/father-law-confesses-belgian-lords-castle-murder)

No mention that the sexual abuse accusation was actually reported to the authorities, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 03, 2017, 08:43:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 03, 2017, 07:07:44 am

I have no idea what you are referring to. None of the news site I follow mention this.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/verdachte-kasteelmoord-bekent-maar-belgen-vragen-zich-af-is-zijn-daad-te-rechtvaardigen~a4492108/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 03, 2017, 09:12:01 am

As far as I can see zero evidence for the accusations of sexual abuse were actually presented.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 03, 2017, 09:29:18 am

Quote from: Antioch on May 03, 2017, 09:12:01 am

As far as I can see zero evidence for the accusations of sexual abuse were actually presented.

I finally found trace in my papers. Apparently the girl complained to her nanny, and the dude's wife said that he was going to undergo therapy to suppress incestuous urges. It's not clear the accusations had been made to the authorities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 03, 2017, 01:51:20 pm

Quote from: Sheb on May 03, 2017, 09:29:18 am

I finally found trace in my papers. Apparently the girl complained to her nanny, and the dude's wife said that he was going to undergo therapy to suppress incestuous urges. It's not clear the accusations had been made to the authorities.

Well, that's what it says in my newspaper.

Quote

Die heeft een paar maanden eerder een klacht ingediend tegen Saelens, die hij verdenkt van incest met zijn dochters.

In other news, police shut down a main highway (A2) in the Netherlands for over an hour after someone reported a suspicious package, creating traffic jams throughout the country.
Turns out it was part of a quest for a children's party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 03, 2017, 02:02:31 pm

That's what you get for letting your children outside. Keep them in the Maturation Chamber like responsible parents next time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 03, 2017, 04:48:50 pm

So the French debates have finished, and Le Pen has shown herself as... well, just look (https://twitter.com/Freezze/status/859880227056570368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%23859880227056570368). I'm hearing reports that even among FN supporters, it is agreed that she has made a super-terrible showing. We'll look at how it will affect the polls, but, given that she was still hovering around 40% mark with little signs of movement, her chances are, shall we say, "not good".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 03, 2017, 05:41:06 pm

She's also been accused of plagiarizing her opponents speech, which she called a 'homage'. Who the heck makes a homage out of an opponents speech while plagiarizing it? Lol

Caricaturizing/satirizing it for the laughs and to mock it, okay, but it sounds like she went and cribbed her opponents speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 04, 2017, 03:03:18 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 03, 2017, 05:41:06 pm

She's also been accused of plagiarizing her opponents speech, which she called a 'homage'. Who the heck makes a homage out of an opponents speech while plagiarizing it? Lol

Caricaturizing/satirizing it for the laughs and to mock it, okay, but it sounds like she went and cribbed her opponents speech.

Mrs Trump?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 04, 2017, 04:15:48 am

Quote from: Covenant on May 04, 2017, 01:02:00 am

'France will be led by a woman. It'll be either me, or Ms Merkel.' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9uXWh3n-Y&feature=youtu.be&t=6759)

Bwahaha, that was brutal.

Yeah, she went a lot on the offensive, but had bad showing when discussing policy. From the pieces I've seen, it reminds me a lot of the first Trump-Clinton debate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2017, 07:04:24 am

Quote from: Ispil on May 04, 2017, 01:05:33 am

Great soundbite, but I don't see what else she has going for her.

More fanatical followers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 04, 2017, 08:27:06 am

Macron has accused Le Pen of making an army of Russians spread fake news about him.
"Marine Le Pen has troops on the internet spreading false rumors. Some of those are working for the Russian government".
With this accusation he is responding to Le Pen, who hinted at him having offshore accounts on the Bahamas.

According to researcher Nicolas Vanderbiest, the orginal source for the rumor that Macron has offshore accounts on the Bahamas is Disobedient Media, a US pro-Trump internet site. The message has been distributed further over the net by 213 french Twitter accounts, which are well known for retweeting RT and Sputnik messages.

US researcher Ben Nimmo of the Digital Forensic Research Lab says there are thousands of bots actively spreading fake news about Macron.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2017, 11:05:51 am

Ayy lmao he's gonna sue her for defamation (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/04/emmanuel-macron-files-defamation-complaint-marine-le-pen-offshore/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2017, 11:16:51 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 04, 2017, 08:27:06 am

Macron has accused Le Pen of making an army of Russians spread fake news about him.
"Marine Le Pen has troops on the internet spreading false rumors. Some of those are working for the Russian government".
With this accusation he is responding to Le Pen, who hinted at him having offshore accounts on the Bahamas.

According to researcher Nicolas Vanderbiest, the orginal source for the rumor that Macron has offshore accounts on the Bahamas is Disobedient Media, a US pro-Trump internet site. The message has been distributed further over the net by 213 french Twitter accounts, which are well known for retweeting RT and Sputnik messages.

US researcher Ben Nimmo of the Digital Forensic Research Lab says there are thousands of bots actively spreading fake news about Macron.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/)

Not the first time the US has meddled in other countries politics, but it's usually the government, not random people under their own initiative.

Not sure what France can do about that, sue the US for meddling in their politics? It's something that we as a global society have to solve.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2017, 11:05:51 am

Ayy lmao he's gonna sue her for defamation (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/04/emmanuel-macron-files-defamation-complaint-marine-le-pen-offshore/)

Imagine if Hillary had done that, heh.

Also, Obama has endorsed Macron. Vox's explainer on why. (https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/4/15542346/obama-emmanuel-macron-endorsement)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 04, 2017, 11:36:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 04, 2017, 11:16:51 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 04, 2017, 08:27:06 am

Macron has accused Le Pen of making an army of Russians spread fake news about him.
"Marine Le Pen has troops on the internet spreading false rumors. Some of those are working for the Russian government".
With this accusation he is responding to Le Pen, who hinted at him having offshore accounts on the Bahamas.

According to researcher Nicolas Vanderbiest, the orginal source for the rumor that Macron has offshore accounts on the Bahamas is Disobedient Media, a US pro-Trump internet site. The message has been distributed further over the net by 213 french Twitter accounts, which are well known for retweeting RT and Sputnik messages.

US researcher Ben Nimmo of the Digital Forensic Research Lab says there are thousands of bots actively spreading fake news about Macron.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/macron-le-pen-laat-russen-fake-news-over-mij-verspreiden~a4492532/)

Not the first time the US has meddled in other countries politics, but it's usually the government, not random people under their own initiative.

Not sure what France can do about that, sue the US for meddling in their politics? It's something that we as a global society have to solve.

You have plenty of right-wing americans trying to support their ideological allies in Europe and beyond. Hell, Geert Wilders' donors were largely americans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 05, 2017, 03:51:59 am

Study reveals half of young Europeans are skeptical about democracy (http://www.dw.com/en/study-reveals-half-of-young-europeans-are-skeptical-about-democracy/a-38689788)

Quote

The results of the YouGov study, commissioned by the TUI Foundation and released Thursday, show that respondents from Germany and Greece were most in favor of democracy (62 and 66 percent), while France, Italy and Poland were the least convinced of its effectiveness (42, 45 and 42 percent).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 04:30:11 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/spCjIt7.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 04:58:35 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 04:30:11 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/spCjIt7.png)

Thanks that made me laugh hard.
Meanwhile, a opinion piece in my newspaper wonders if the UK is headed to becoming a third world nation again, just like they were before Thatcher, when they were begging the IMF to save them, much like Greece is now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 05:16:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 04:58:35 am

Thanks that made me laugh hard.
Meanwhile, a opinion piece in my newspaper wonders if the UK is headed to becoming a third world nation again, just like they were before Thatcher, when they were begging the IMF to save them, much like Greece is now.

Cheers, though in regards to your latter point, it's an interesting idea. Before Thatcher every group was out for itself, out against every other group in their community, vital services grounding to a halt under strikes and threats of national emergency. Infrastructure was shutting down, in one notable instance, a factory was used to store the dead because cemetery workers went on strike. Whilst it was not 3rd world, it was the Ottoman sick man of Yurop. Talented individuals fled the UK for the USA, fleeing the taxes imposed by the gov in an attempt to maintain order. Civil servants determined wages in an effort to combat the threat of hyperinflation, while politicians told foreign generals that the UK would support their invasions of the UK. No one would help their neighbour because they expected society to help them. Today, it would take war or a global recession for that to repeat, just as it took world war to economically dislocate the UK. I suppose we were lucky Thatcher stopped us from joining the Euro. Ultimately as long as we don't have the blood on our streets to the same level as europe, things are gonna be content. Greece's situation is I think, evidence of what happens to nations that are not powerful enough to sit in the big boy club. Don't forget, for individuals like myself, we did not neglect to notice that Greece was not reduced to ruin by the actions of the IMF alone. The Troika was the European Central Bank, the European Commission and the International Monetary Fund, the first two are concerningly left unmentioned.

Also, more bants:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/edv0TiG.png)

French police attempting to communicate with anons in order to find who leaked Macron's financial connections

*EDIT
What are the long term effects of brain drain? (http://www.euractiv.com/section/enlargement/news/recent-eu-enlargement-led-to-brain-drain-in-new-members/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 05:28:44 am

I wish we could just forget this whole 2016 mess and move to an alternate universe where Antipasta protestors try to peacefully protest against French PM Macron, Italian PM Spagheti and UK minister Noodles, while confronting confused Pastafari contra-protestors wearing sieves. It would be much more fun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 06:39:52 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 05:28:44 am

I wish we could just forget this whole 2016 mess and move to an alternate universe where Antipasta protestors try to peacefully protest against French PM Macron, Italian PM Spagheti and UK minister Noodles, while confronting confused Pastafari contra-protestors wearing sieves. It would be much more fun.

Not French PM Macaroni?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 05, 2017, 07:53:13 am

The after-the-debates polls came out (https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linternaute.com%2Factualite%2Fpolitique%2F1357555-presidentielle-2017-resultat-du-dernier-sondage-2eme-tour-de-l-election-en-direct%2F&edit-text=&act=url). Le-Pen is trending downwards. We're two days away from the election day.

This is Le End for her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 05, 2017, 08:29:09 am

It's turning out that Le Pen père apparently charge the EP for at least 8500's worth of wine delivered to his chateau. I really wonder how that family planned to live if France left the EU.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 08:49:07 am

tfw french people actually live in castles

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 05, 2017, 09:21:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 08:49:07 am

tfw french people actually live in castles

Not all of them, only those that run on a platform of defending the little guy against elites.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 10:12:20 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2017, 08:49:07 am

tfw french people actually live in castles

Nah, most French castles are inhabited by rich Dutch, German and Japanese people. There was this real castle rush some 20 years ago, when you could literally buy a castle in France for around 20 thousand euros. The French themselves had no interest, because they knew damn well most castles are in terrible shape and would require at least 10x the purchasing price in repairs. Still, a lot of foreigners, including my own countrymen were all like "hmm what to buy, new car, or a castle in France," and went with the castle. Nowadays castles aren't that cheap anymore, all the cheap ones have long since been sold.

EDIT: that's one thing that always makes me feel sorry for US folks. You don't have nice medieval castles. Closests you get is colonial age forts and residences, but those aren't the real thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on May 05, 2017, 10:35:15 am

Macron and Le Pen. Who's next, Breve and Stylus? What a strange election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 11:34:57 am

Next Russian elections: Putin vs Erdogan. I mean, Erdogan is half Georgian, so he can become Russian president, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 05, 2017, 01:00:01 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 11:34:57 am

Next Russian elections: Putin vs Erdogan. I mean, Erdogan is half Georgian, so he can become Russian president, right?

He isn't a citizen of the Russian Federation and hasn't been continuously living in Russia for at least 10 years, so nope, he's automatically disqualified by the paragraph 2, article 81, chapter 4 of the Russian Constitution (yes we do have a constitution).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on May 05, 2017, 03:01:45 pm

Quote from: Sergarr on May 05, 2017, 01:00:01 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 11:34:57 am

Next Russian elections: Putin vs Erdogan. I mean, Erdogan is half Georgian, so he can become Russian president, right?

He isn't a citizen of the Russian Federation and hasn't been continuously living in Russia for at least 10 years, so nope, he's automatically disqualified by the paragraph 2, article 81, chapter 4 of the Russian Constitution (yes we do have a constitution).

Russia just has to annex Turkey first. If they declare everyone in the annexed areas to be Russian citizens, they even have retroactive justification for the annexation, considering all the future Russians who had formerly not been in Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2017, 07:55:22 pm

A French presidential candidate (guess which one) got hit by a hack and major leak of emails. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-macron-leaks-idUSKBN1812AZ)

The Hill article (http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/332171-macron-emails-leaked-two-days-before-french-election).

Seems rather late for a leak to significally affect things, especially since Macron and Le Pen are so far apart in the polls, MUCH further than Clinton and Trump ever were. The Clinton email leaks had a really long time to percolate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 05, 2017, 07:58:29 pm

I also don't see any, you know, controversy about these emails. Emails are not inherently evil, despite what you may have heard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2017, 08:00:00 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 05, 2017, 07:58:29 pm

I also don't see any, you know, controversy about these emails. Emails are not inherently evil, despite what you may have heard.

I know, and there's apparently no (or not much) detail about the emails. Just the fact that there was a hack and a leak is still a big deal, considering what Russia has been up to, which is what I was getting at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: alway on May 05, 2017, 08:44:58 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 05, 2017, 08:00:00 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 05, 2017, 07:58:29 pm

I also don't see any, you know, controversy about these emails. Emails are not inherently evil, despite what you may have heard.

I know, and there's apparently no (or not much) detail about the emails. Just the fact that there was a hack and a leak is still a big deal, considering what Russia has been up to, which is what I was getting at.

Yeah, it's a pretty well-established strategy at this point. Dump enough random communications and somebody will find *something* to take out of context. Nobody ever actually reads the source material, so all it takes is one good out of context statement fragment getting repeatedly pushed by a troll army and suddenly it's a "scandal." Combine with a bit of photoshop and pushing a narrative elsewhere like so: https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/860585882478407681
and now you can pretend your entirely fake material came from a real dump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 05, 2017, 09:58:16 pm

It's a bit too late for that to work, though. There's a media blackout on any political discussion in the day before the election day and during the election day itself, too.

BTW, the post-debate polls trend has been put on a graph. It's fucking amazing, she completely blew it:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2017/05/05/534x0/5123294_6_5ab4_enquete-ipsos-realisee-le-5-mai-par-internet_8e31e892a0019c70ea05752d3f6576c3.jpg)

To note: Macron was supposed to be the one weak in debating, since he was not in politics until he announced his candidature for Presidency. And yet, here we are - Le Pen, utterly crushed in a debate.

Macron truly is the Savior of France and Europe. He will rally the forces of Western civilization against the outside threat and bring forth the new, better age. It's so amazing to see this long-awaited comeback against the growing tide of darkness actually starting to happen. I'm so, so happy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2017, 10:23:56 pm

He was the Treasurer (or economy minister or something) of the current president for a while, so, he's not ENTIRELY new to politics, but yeah, he's never held elected office before.

538 got to the point by saying that Le Pen is a massively unprecedented polling error behind Macron. (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/le-pen-is-just-a-gargantuan-polling-error-behind-macron/) The closest Le Pen ever got is more than twice the biggest lead that Clinton ever had over Trump.

And yeah, I read in the article that they were entering the campaign shutdown period.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2017, 02:55:48 am

The French should get rid of that media silence during final election days thing. It's outdated by the internet. They can't stop social media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 06, 2017, 03:49:58 am

What would it bring?

Also, keep in mind that even if a leak doesn't change the presidential election, it could help make sure Macron can't get a legislative majority (The elections are in June).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2017, 04:20:35 am

Well in the current age the media silence means that any fake news media can pump out as many horrible accusations as they like, and the politicians will not be able do defend themselves against those, because they're forbidden to speak in public until after the elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 06, 2017, 05:56:09 am

It'd also mean that they have no chance to spread to the masses. Most people do not read Internet, you know? Besides, it's just one day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 06, 2017, 08:24:06 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2017, 10:12:20 am

Nah, most French castles are inhabited by rich Dutch, German and Japanese people. There was this real castle rush some 20 years ago, when you could literally buy a castle in France for around 20 thousand euros. The French themselves had no interest, because they knew damn well most castles are in terrible shape and would require at least 10x the purchasing price in repairs. Still, a lot of foreigners, including my own countrymen were all like "hmm what to buy, new car, or a castle in France," and went with the castle. Nowadays castles aren't that cheap anymore, all the cheap ones have long since been sold.

EDIT: that's one thing that always makes me feel sorry for US folks. You don't have nice medieval castles. Closests you get is colonial age forts and residences, but those aren't the real thing.

I wonder how you'd pitch the planning application forms to your local council if you intended to build a modern supercastle to live in
Who wouldn't want to live in a Helm's deep

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 06, 2017, 09:23:48 am

We don't actually know yet if it really was the Russians, but it seems like the Russians would be more competent than that.

Of course, it's possible that they had thought one of the two main parties would win and had only effectively changed over to Macron at the last minute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 06, 2017, 09:45:55 am

Quote from: greatorder on May 06, 2017, 09:32:35 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 06, 2017, 09:23:48 am

We don't actually know yet if it really was the Russians, but it seems like the Russians would be more competent than that.

Of course, it's possible that they had thought one of the two main parties would win and had only effectively changed over to Macron at the last minute.

I dunno, sounds similar to the (oft compared) DNC email leak. Steal all the emails, dump them all, and wait for other people to pick through them for anything incriminating/able to be taken out of context, then spread that using the Russian propaganda machine.

Either way, it's come too late to affect the final part of the election since the media and campaigning lockdown came hours after it had happened.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 06, 2017, 01:12:20 pm

AFAIK, it was emails from the campaign. It's not as if the emails are from some private server that he was running while treasury minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 06, 2017, 06:41:49 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 06, 2017, 09:45:55 am

Either way, it's come too late to affect the final part of the election since the media and campaigning lockdown came hours after it had happened.

The power of shitposts and word of mouth is incalculable

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 07, 2017, 10:12:22 am

Exit polls have Macron between 62 and 64%, very slightly overperforming his polls. Participation is way down though (65% at 17h, compared to 70% at that time in 2012 and 75% in 2017).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 07, 2017, 10:51:57 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 07, 2017, 10:12:22 am

Exit polls have Macron between 62 and 64%, very slightly overperforming his polls. Participation is way down though (65% at 17h, compared to 0% at that time in 2012 and 75% in 2017).

Uh, I think you messed up there.

I'll wait until the counting starts, though, so that I could properly annihilate this "meme magic" poison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 07, 2017, 11:08:48 am

Fixed that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 07, 2017, 01:15:44 pm

As by current counting, Macron leads smashes the shit out of Le Pen with a staggering 65.5 percent of the votes (http://www.politico.eu/article/france-presidential-election-2017-second-round-live-results-winner-emmanuel-macron-marine-le-pen/), actually outperforming his polling!

The percentage is likely to shift, buuuuut it's basically all ogre for Le Pen. Sorry, lads, no meme magic for you this day!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: birdy51 on May 07, 2017, 01:57:24 pm

Oh thank goodness. Let's hope he does well now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2017, 02:05:38 pm

I kind of hope he does not gain an absolute majority, as he's, when push comes to shove, a right wing politician and it would be good if left-wing parties kept him from stepping on worker's rights too much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 07, 2017, 02:12:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2017, 02:05:38 pm

I kind of hope he does not gain an absolute majority

It's a two-candidate election...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 07, 2017, 02:19:02 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on May 07, 2017, 02:12:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2017, 02:05:38 pm

I kind of hope he does not gain an absolute majority

It's a two-candidate election...

Maybe he meant in Parliament?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2017, 02:32:56 pm

  I meant in Parliament, yes. I believe there's another election coming soon, right? Or was this already settled in the first round?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 07, 2017, 03:25:20 pm

The parliament stuff is still upcoming AFAIK. I believe I've read that it's June 8th or so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 07, 2017, 03:25:40 pm

Le Pen has conceded the election, meme magic is over. Concession speech for her (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPL-s0Yuxsc), victory speech for the Savior of France, Emmanuel Macron (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1EzFuWnCZo). She lost so hard she's going to have to rename her party to remove the stains of that defeat. Seriously, she just announced that she will change the name of National Front,  (http://www.politico.eu/article/national-front-change-name-after-marine-le-pen-defeat/)as a part of her scheme to try to get more places in parliamentary elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 07, 2017, 03:49:38 pm

Anybody know if the French parliamentary campaign starts now or if it starts two weeks before voting or something?

I suppose there might be a logistical deadline for changing the name of their party before the parliamentary election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on May 07, 2017, 05:03:53 pm

So right-wing populism is only for anglophone countries. I'm not sure how to feel about that. Good for France, I suppose.

Quote from: smjjames on May 07, 2017, 03:49:38 pm

I suppose there might be a logistical deadline for changing the name of their party before the parliamentary election.

They'd probably have to have something to change it to in order to do that, which I, for one, have not yet heard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on May 07, 2017, 06:29:21 pm

Quote from: greatorder on May 07, 2017, 05:05:00 pm

Quote from: misko27 on May 07, 2017, 05:03:53 pm

So right-wing populism is only for anglophone countries. I'm not sure how to feel about that. Good for France, I suppose.

Quote from: smjjames on May 07, 2017, 03:49:38 pm

I suppose there might be a logistical deadline for changing the name of their party before the parliamentary election.

They'd probably have to have something to change it to in order to do that, which I, for one, have not yet heard.

Cultural similarities? Britain's always been more isolationist, makes sense that it would have carried over to the US.

"Isolationist" is one way of describing it.

Spoiler: Countries the UK has not invaded at some point (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/usy3kk6.jpg)

Spoiler: US Military bases (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/svb4nGA.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on May 07, 2017, 07:46:31 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on May 07, 2017, 06:29:21 pm

Spoiler: Countries the UK has not invaded at some point (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/usy3kk6.jpg)

If that is that same map that made the rounds a while back, I remember reading a well-sourced criticism that the map was misleading, and had an odd definition of the word "invade". But your point still stands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on May 07, 2017, 10:19:10 pm

Yeah, it's the same one, but was just what came to mind immediately. I do think most of it applies, but ones like Norway and much of latin america (for example) seem pretty shaky.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 08, 2017, 01:41:18 am

Welll... to be completely honest you could likely make similar maps for most European nations. Cause that's how European history went, trolls trolling trolls   I mean, nations invading each other over and over

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: helmacon on May 08, 2017, 02:39:48 am

Yea, but we did it in like, a fraction of the time Britain took. The US has only been around for, what, 250 yrs? British imperialism started 500(ish?) years ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 08, 2017, 10:28:29 am

I strongly distrust your apparent definition of isolationist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 11, 2017, 05:29:24 am

Wouldn't call the Anglo-American nations isolationist, more diplomatically aloof

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 15, 2017, 12:18:57 pm

Meanwhile, the Netherlands takes a step towards digitalizing the police force.  After succesful testing in Amsterdam, the national police will start using crime prediction algorithms.
Based off statistical input, the algorithm will predict where burglaries, robberies and other crimes will be most likely to happen, and allow for better targetted police surveilance.

The algorithm can predict crime narrowed down to a 125x125 meter area, based on statistics about things like the history of crimes in the area, the amount of convicted criminals or suspects living in the area, age and gender statistics and the number of people recieving social welfare checks.

Inb4 I'm arrested for a crime I'm predicted to commit 10 years from now, based on my housing location and societal position.

EDIT: In other Dutch news, government formation talks have failed. Immigration and environment turned out to be too big of an issue to bridge the gap between the Green party and the other parties.
Now they need to go back to the drawing board, and try to make a coalition of parties that can make it work. I do hope that does not include Wilders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 15, 2017, 01:11:04 pm

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 15, 2017, 02:00:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on May 15, 2017, 01:11:04 pm

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

No, they need a minimum of 3 other parties to form a majority coalition. The cordon sanitaire will probably hold the second formation round. But if those fail too, there's not going to be much more options than to include them in the next talks, or end up with a rainbow coalition of many small parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 15, 2017, 04:34:06 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 15, 2017, 02:00:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on May 15, 2017, 01:11:04 pm

I was under the impression that all the major political parties in your parts said they wouldn't work with him? I can't imagine there are enough who will change on that point for it to happen. Does his party have enough seats to form a coalition without another party's aid?

No, they need a minimum of 3 other parties to form a majority coalition. The cordon sanitaire will probably hold the second formation round. But if those fail too, there's not going to be much more options than to include them in the next talks, or end up with a rainbow coalition of many small parties.

When are we finally going to implement a voting threshold?

Seriously this multitude of tiny parties is making forming a government impossible.

We have ZEVEN parties in parliament with 5 or less seats.

And our biggest party (VVD) has a whopping 22% of seats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 15, 2017, 04:50:43 pm

I don't see why they shouldn't include PVV, frankly. All they do by blocking them out is play into their narrative of being oppressed etc. etc. by the political establishment.

Better to let them join the coalition. That way they'll either a) make a fool of themselves and be trashed at the next election, or b) actually contribute. Win-win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 15, 2017, 04:55:12 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 15, 2017, 04:50:43 pm

I don't see why they shouldn't include PVV, frankly. All they do by blocking them out is play into their narrative of being oppressed etc. etc. by the political establishment.

Better to let them join the coalition. That way they'll either a) make a fool of themselves and be trashed at the next election, or b) actually contribute. Win-win.

Actually PVV was already included once (in some super lame construction consisting of the pvv "permitting" or "tolerating" the government)

guess what, PVV pulled the plug and failed miserably.

But I guess people have a bad short term memory here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 15, 2017, 04:56:31 pm

So why not just let them fail again? This flailing around trying to include parties like GL which are almost as ridiculous as PVV just to avoid working with Wilders is silly and counterproductive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 15, 2017, 04:56:45 pm

Any situation with strong support for a cordon sanitaire is one where it's essentially obligatory. While there is some agreement power in the party bodies deciding upon a coalition, the party seats are still made up of individual members. Introducing a party as divisive as PVV has a real potential to poison the coalition and make bunches of seats both in and out of PVV splinter, leading to political dysfunction and thus a scenario even worse than biting the bullet on the original plan or a rainbow coalition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 15, 2017, 05:06:28 pm

I just can't see how including the PVV is a worse solution than involving GL or DENK or PvdD or 50+ or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 15, 2017, 05:51:06 pm

I admit to not having super detailed knowledge of the Dutch parties, but I'm not really sure what made the deal with GL fall through. Wikipedia portrays them as pretty usual environmentalist liberal-left types.

DENK is obviously a problem due to recent events, denying the Armenian Genocide, and probably their insistence on the whole "racism registry" thing, so probably not them.

PvdD you could probably get with the same bone you throw to GL (see, get it, throw a bone, because it's like they're an animal party and...yeah...yeah.)

50+ is also a bone-thrower, and given that GL also wants wider retirement benefits anyway...

Now, I get that all of this is kind of askew of the center and center-right parties that did well in the last election, and that in theory PVV is more closely aligned with them. But consider the issues with the parties above working with the right, and let's compare to what issues might arise trying to work with PVV:

Quote from: Wikipedia

Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens. (That won't be controversial or anything.)
Prohibition of halal and kosher slaughter (p. 55) (However Wilders has stated that opposition to kosher slaughter was not part of his party's agenda and that support for the ban had been withdrawn)[108] (Depends on Wilders sticking to it or not, but again, something hard to justify in a generally free nation.)
Active repatriation of criminals of foreign citizenship and Dutch nationals originating from the Netherlands Antilles (p. 11) (Geo-politically difficult as well as likely bringing up issues of sending people to be executed in other nations.)
Deportation of criminals having foreign nationality or multiple citizenship back to their country of origin, after a prison sentence (p. 13) (Same, also obviously open to abuse, especially for the dual citizens.)
Restrictions on immigrant labour from new EU member states and Islamic countries (p. 15) (Creates crisis with the EU.)
Removal of resources from anti-climate change programs, development aid and immigration services (p. 17) (Untenable with other parties)
Abolition of the Senate (p. 19) (Major alteration to political structure)
Shutting down of all Islamic schools (p. 15) (Probably controversial, not sure on the status of religious schools in the Netherlands)
Ban on Islamic "gender apartheid" (p. 15) (the fuck does this even mean legally)
General Pension (AOW) age must remain 65 (p. 21) (I gather from all parties having positions on it, as well as there being a party that is ONLY about it, that the pension age is a matter of some concern.)
Governmental communication to be exclusively in Dutch or Frisian (p. 35) (Gonna cause a shitfit)
Dutch language proficiency and a 10-year Dutch residency and work experience requirement for welfare assistance (p. 15) (Gonna result in oppressed minorities)
Constitutional protection of the dominance of the Judeo-Christian and humanistic culture of the Netherlands (p. 35) (Anti-liberal constitutional alteration)
Choosing to defend the essential elements of Dutch culture: freedom of the LGBT community, as well as assured equality of men and women which Islam may challenge (p. 33) (Again vague legally, likely to cause a clusterfuck)
Repeal of anti-smoking legislation in bars (p. 39) (Clearly the worst thing on this list. Need I even go on?)
Investment in more nuclear power plants and clean coal plants to reduce dependency on imported oil and because coal is cheaper (p. 47) (Massively reactionary energy policy with the coal, just unpopular with the nuclear.)
Withdrawal from the European Union. (NEXIT WHEN)
Return to the guilder (old Dutch currency) and cease use of the euro. (NEXIT TODAY)
Abolition of the European Parliament and no cooperation in any EU activity. (NEXIT TOMORROW)
Ask the EU to remove the "Dutch" star in the European flag. (NEXIT FOREVER)
Repeal flight tax or carbon dioxide tax. (Snubs environmentalists AND reduces tax revenue? What a combo!)
Binding referendum on subjects like the EU and a multicultural society. (I can only fucking imagine what this would look like on a ballot.)
No more tax money to "(political) left" organizations. (They'll see the funny side eventually.)
Keeping track of the ethnicity of people who have committed crimes. (Racist propaganda is no big deal or anything)
Select policemen on "decisiveness." (Jackbooted thugs are no big deal or anything)
Binding assimilation contracts for immigrants. (Legal enforcement of culture is no big deal or anything)
Taxes on the Islamic headscarf and prohibition of the Koran. (Proscribing a religion is no big deal or anything)
Ban on headscarves in any public function. (Telling women what to wear is no big deal or anything)
Support "Afrikaners", as it is Dutch heritage. (Lowkey apartheid apology is no big deal or anything)
Opposition to Turkey's membership in NATO and remaining in NATO because it is crucial. (Directly challenging American foreign policy is no big deal or anything)
Halt all support and "propaganda" for Palestine and Palestinians. ("Who is your West Bank settlement, and what does he do?")
No more windmills and funding for durability or CO2 reduction; no more "fiscal greening". (I never knew PVV was so dedicated to trolling environmentalists before now.)

Now, PVV is going to want to pass at least some of that in exchange for the coalition, or there's no actual coalition to be had. So there's two scenarios, really. Either the party influence wins out and there's government dysfunction as the party members get concerned for their future careers and start going askew, or the member influences win out and there's no coalition. There's not a good winning combination here compared to the center and right throwing some possibly controversial but at least scope-limited support to a rainbow coalition in exchange for cooperation compared to the comprehensive and kind of insane policies of PVV, which they will be all the more pushy about due to their numbers. Smaller parties are easier to control and have fewer sticking positions, even if they all want to try to play kingmaker at once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2017, 01:53:04 am

How exactly does that square with holding multiple seats, again? I can't imagine Wilders is allowed to hold them all himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 16, 2017, 02:15:24 am

The others MP aren't member of the party officially.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on May 16, 2017, 02:17:01 am

Quote

Support "Afrikaners", as it is Dutch heritage. (Lowkey apartheid apology is no big deal or anything)

I just want to point out that this has no inherent apartheid apology in it anywhere. Contextually it could well (I don't know the specifics of the PVV's views on the topic), but the statement standing alone is no more apartheid apology than saying "one should support Germans" is holocaust apology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 02:19:25 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 16, 2017, 02:15:24 am

The others MP aren't member of the party officially.

Yep, this. Unsuprisingly, there's already been quite a few MPs and local city council members that went dissident halfway their term.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2017, 02:38:34 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 16, 2017, 02:15:24 am

The others MP aren't member of the party officially.

That certainly sounds like something that is somehow illegal, and yet is slippery enough to not be. Well, doesn't really make a difference for my analysis.

Quote from: Arx on May 16, 2017, 02:17:01 am

Quote

Support "Afrikaners", as it is Dutch heritage. (Lowkey apartheid apology is no big deal or anything)

I just want to point out that this has no inherent apartheid apology in it anywhere. Contextually it could well (I don't know the specifics of the PVV's views on the topic), but the statement standing alone is no more apartheid apology than saying "one should support Germans" is holocaust apology.

I suppose not, but given everything else PVV believes in I have to wonder.

Hey martinuzz, are PVV apartheid apologists?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 03:35:13 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2017, 02:38:34 am

Hey martinuzz, are PVV apartheid apologists?

Not that I've specifically heard mentioned, although it would be unsurprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 16, 2017, 05:55:53 am

This article seems relevant, (http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/pvv-er-bosma-haalt-uit-naar-mandela-en-diens-vele-fans~a4041426/) though I'm not sure exactly how much because Dutch is confusing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 06:22:14 am

It's about a book by PVV MP Martin Bosma, called 'Minority in your own country, how progressive battle turned into genocide and ANC-apartheid' in which he critisizes people who think Mandela was a good man, pointing out that the ANC had punishment camps and tortured people, and accusing Mandela of being a terrorist and a communist, and critisizes him for calling Albania, North Korea and North-Vietnam as examples of 'succesful socialism'.
He says to the book critics that will critisize his book that "you will say that anyone who critisizes the ANC must be pro-apartheid. You are wrong. The old apartheid was deplorable and immoral. Period, plus three exclamation marks".

So no, while the rest of the book is very much an anti-multiculturalism plea and an attack on the progressive left, right up the alley of the PVV, it's not an apology or endorsement for apartheid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

@MSH: But Windmills are iconic to the Netherlands, they're like national (along with historical) treasures I'm sure. If that's all Geert Wilders thing, then that seems to make him a traitor to Dutch culture. At least to me, but I'm American, so, what do I know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on May 16, 2017, 02:45:34 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 06:22:14 am

It's about a book by PVV MP Martin Bosma, called 'Minority in your own country, how progressive battle turned into genocide and ANC-apartheid' in which he critisizes people who think Mandela was a good man, pointing out that the ANC had punishment camps and tortured people, and accusing Mandela of being a terrorist and a communist, and critisizes him for calling Albania, North Korea and North-Vietnam as examples of 'succesful socialism'.
He says to the book critics that will critisize his book that "you will say that anyone who critisizes the ANC must be pro-apartheid. You are wrong. The old apartheid was deplorable and immoral. Period, plus three exclamation marks".

So no, while the rest of the book is very much an anti-multiculturalism plea and an attack on the progressive left, right up the alley of the PVV, it's not an apology or endorsement for apartheid.

Mandela approved some pretty horrifying things. That's not accusation as much as it's statement of fact.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 16, 2017, 03:16:39 pm

Shell house massacre for starters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_House_massacre)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 17, 2017, 07:32:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

They are elected as members of parliament, or members of senate, or members of city council on behalf of the PVV. They're just not members of the PVV.
It's not unique, but it is exceptional in Dutch politics. I do believe that the conservative christian party SGP also was, or still is a party without members.
Most if not all other parties have members, and conventions at which the members choose a new chairman, and vote about party issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 17, 2017, 07:47:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 17, 2017, 07:32:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

They are elected as members of parliament, or members of senate, or members of city council on behalf of the PVV. They're just not members of the PVV.
It's not unique, but it is exceptional in Dutch politics. I do believe that the conservative christian party SGP also was, or still is a party without members.
Most if not all other parties have members, and conventions at which the members choose a new chairman, and vote about party issues.

There are similar arrangements in other countries. In France, while En Marche! has members (or "supporters") the party is very much the tool of one man and he's the only one making decision (although it's young, it'll be interesting to see what happens).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 17, 2017, 08:08:35 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 17, 2017, 07:47:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 17, 2017, 07:32:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

They are elected as members of parliament, or members of senate, or members of city council on behalf of the PVV. They're just not members of the PVV.
It's not unique, but it is exceptional in Dutch politics. I do believe that the conservative christian party SGP also was, or still is a party without members.
Most if not all other parties have members, and conventions at which the members choose a new chairman, and vote about party issues.

There are similar arrangements in other countries. In France, while En Marche! has members (or "supporters") the party is very much the tool of one man and he's the only one making decision (although it's young, it'll be interesting to see what happens).

To be fair, En Marche! is so young that it wasn't considered a full political party. AFAIK, Macron is the first person to be elected to a political office under it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 17, 2017, 09:02:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 17, 2017, 08:08:35 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 17, 2017, 07:47:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 17, 2017, 07:32:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

They are elected as members of parliament, or members of senate, or members of city council on behalf of the PVV. They're just not members of the PVV.
It's not unique, but it is exceptional in Dutch politics. I do believe that the conservative christian party SGP also was, or still is a party without members.
Most if not all other parties have members, and conventions at which the members choose a new chairman, and vote about party issues.

There are similar arrangements in other countries. In France, while En Marche! has members (or "supporters") the party is very much the tool of one man and he's the only one making decision (although it's young, it'll be interesting to see what happens).

To be fair, En Marche! is so young that it wasn't considered a full political party. AFAIK, Macron is the first person to be elected to a political office under it.

Oh yeah, but there is little signs so far that it intend it to be anything but a personnal vehicle. Why do you think he came up with a name whose initials are EM?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 18, 2017, 12:07:02 pm

Facebook gets off easy. The European commission has only fined it for 110 million euros.
When Facebook bought WhatsApp 3 years ago, it promised to never link user data of the two services, even saying in 2014 that that wasn't even technically possible.
When they did exactly that, two and a half year later, the EU commission opened an investigation and has now found them guilty of misleading authorities.

Sadly, 110 million euros is less than pocket change for Facebook, and this will not discourage them from trying something like this again in the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 18, 2017, 05:51:57 pm

Was it Norway or Sweden that has or had an income based system of fining people? I remember there being something like that for traffic fines. If you're on minimum wage, speeding by 10km over the limit would cost you maybe 100 euros. However if you are a billionaire, expect to be fined for a few hundred thousand euros for the same 10km over the limit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 18, 2017, 06:11:24 pm

I do believe that's Finland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 18, 2017, 06:16:40 pm

Doesn't pretty much every civilized country have that, at least for fines set by a judge? In Germany it's called Day Rates.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 18, 2017, 10:39:01 pm

No, there's almost no country that has that. They tried once or twice in the Netherlands, but it never passed parliament or senate. Something something 'everyone is equal before the law somethingsomething'. I've never heard anything about Germany having something similar. Is that really new?

Note that I do not agree with the equal before the law argument. Just make fines be a percentage of someone's monthly income, then billionaires get to pay hundred thousands while still being equal before the law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 18, 2017, 11:42:12 pm

It is a legitimate concern. You don't want the judge to be able to fine people not-quite-arbitrary-but-pretty-close amounts because "they can afford it" and the county needs the money. Finland gives people fines as a multiple of 1/2 of 1/60 of a person's weekly income (what they figure to be 1/2 of that person's disposable income), but a country could in theory peg it to annual income or just tell judges and police to consider the financial means of the defendant when ordering a fine. It's a good idea, but it needs to be configured just right to stop it from becoming a highway robbery scheme and legislators are understandably nervous about putting their signature on such a thing. That and it's to the exclusive detriment of the type of person who can personally throw their weight around to stop it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 19, 2017, 05:57:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 18, 2017, 10:39:01 pm

No, there's almost no country that has that. They tried once or twice in the Netherlands, but it never passed parliament or senate. Something something 'everyone is equal before the law somethingsomething'. I've never heard anything about Germany having something similar. Is that really new?

It's ancient, and apparently a thing in all German-speaking countries. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine) Go to the German article for details on our system - here (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__40.html)'s the relevant paragraph from our Strafgesetzbuch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2017, 06:05:05 am

Quote from: Baffler on May 18, 2017, 11:42:12 pm

It is a legitimate concern. You don't want the judge to be able to fine people not-quite-arbitrary-but-pretty-close amounts because "they can afford it" and the county needs the money. Finland gives people fines as a multiple of 1/2 of 1/60 of a person's weekly income (what they figure to be 1/2 of that person's disposable income), but a country could in theory peg it to annual income or just tell judges and police to consider the financial means of the defendant when ordering a fine. It's a good idea, but it needs to be configured just right to stop it from becoming a highway robbery scheme and legislators are understandably nervous about putting their signature on such a thing. That and it's to the exclusive detriment of the type of person who can personally throw their weight around to stop it.

As long as the judge don't benefit from the fine (similar to civil forfeiture in the US) it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2017, 08:28:51 am

I do read that the german version has an upper limit of 30.000 euros, but it's good to see my eastern neighbors have at least the basis for such system in their law. I guess german law has other means to discourage repeat traffic offenders as well. You have some kind of penalty point system for the driver's license, right? 5 points and you're out or somesuch.

Dutch traffic fining system sucks. Rich people can basically just speed and hit red lights all day every day, and laugh when they get fined for maybe 200 euros, which is rare enough, because they know damn well where the speed-o-meters are placed, and police is severely understaffed on the traffic control department.
However, speeding more than 50km/h over the speed limit means your driver's license will be immediatly revoked (I think for at least 3 years), and you'll have to go to court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on May 19, 2017, 08:40:22 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 16, 2017, 07:41:33 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2017, 01:32:13 am

Thing is, there are no members to the PVV. It's a one man party. Wilders is the only member of his party.

And yet there are other politicians in the PVV, how does that even work.

@MSH: But Windmills are iconic to the Netherlands, they're like national (along with historical) treasures I'm sure. If that's all Geert Wilders thing, then that seems to make him a traitor to Dutch culture. At least to me, but I'm American, so, what do I know.

There's a difference between traditional (http://cdn.wallpapersafari.com/89/86/zkVEfx.jpg) and modern (https://www.1limburg.nl/sites/default/files/public/styles/article-detail/public/windmolens.jpg?itok=jMazdPTA) windmills.

The latter are gargantuan and can ruin the environment by just being ugly. Not to forget entire rows of them light up the night sky like no other. I'm all for renewable energy and stuff but they should just put them somewhere far, far away on sea where no one sees them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 19, 2017, 08:48:20 am

Offshore wind is significantly more expensive though. Also, ugliness is relative, I quite like the sight myself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 19, 2017, 08:57:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 19, 2017, 08:28:51 am

I do read that the german version has an upper limit of 30.000 euros, but it's good to see my eastern neighbors have at least the basis for such system in their law. I guess german law has other means to discourage repeat traffic offenders as well. You have some kind of penalty point system for the driver's license, right? 5 points and you're out or somesuch.

€30.000 per day, not 30.000 overall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2017, 09:06:41 am

Ooh, so the maximum is 360 times 30000 = 10.8 million?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 19, 2017, 09:12:22 am

Even more, actually. The 365 day limit is only a default in case a law doesn't specify a range itself.

This system is not used for normal traffic fines though, just to be clear. As far as I'm aware it's used by judges to fairly determine punishments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on May 19, 2017, 09:18:03 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 19, 2017, 08:48:20 am

Offshore wind is significantly more expensive though. Also, ugliness is relative, I quite like the sight myself.

I haven't heard of any others who liked the sight. My grandmother used to look at lovely meadows and some forests in the distance from her house, but now its just white poles everywhere. Believe me, looking at white poles all day and blinking red lights all night gets stale for everyone, especially for someone who's barely able to leave her house due to her age.

Offshore wind is still profitable, though. And why not make solar parks? We have enough sun for everyone, they're still profitable and are not hundreds of meters high so they don't fuck up the scenery for everyone living in a 20 kilometer radius.

But, above all of that I prefer nuclear energy. It's very profitable, doesn't fuck up the environment, only needs one ugly plant to supply an entire province and should actually be safe in a 1st world country without tectonic activity (sorry groningen, windmills for you). I just don't get the stigma,

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 19, 2017, 12:31:02 pm

The only differences between the all-the-same wood and canvas windmills and the all-the-same metal and carbon fiber windmills is that the latter are newer and produce useful amounts of energy. People oppose them (sometimes to hysterical degrees, see "windmill sickness") because they're not used to them.

Offshore wind is all well and good, but wind resources are limited. There are only some locations where they make sense to build. I'm not familiar with the Netherlands' wind map, but in the US there are land regions that are equally or more wind rich than the coastline. And I'm sure most people who oppose wind turbines on land would oppose them on the sea for "ruining the beaches", whether they're visible from the shore or not.

Solar is also all well and good, but just like wind it has location limitations, and wind is useful to provide at night when solar is obviously not functional.

Nuclear power is hobbled by a number of factors, some which are also public hysteria, but others which are very serious. First amongst them is the cost, not in dollars euros but in time. Nuclear plants take decades from planning to operation, and that's not an investment that anybody's gonna make unless the state is just drowning them in dosh the whole time as compensation. Perhaps more pressingly, new nuclear plants at this point will not come online in time to make a difference in the energy and climate crisis.

In addition to this, we're facing a (usable) uranium shortage that is similar in nature to the oil shortage, which even if mitigated will still raise the price of nuclear energy from its more attractive status quo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2017, 12:36:23 pm

Who needs uranium. Thorium is the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 19, 2017, 12:52:41 pm

Thorium has a future.

EDIT: Why don't we go all nuclear already? Because it would collapse like a pile of shit in no time flat.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/uranium-resources/supply-of-uranium.aspx#ECSArticleLink1

Quote

the world's present measured resources of uranium (5.7 Mt) in the cost category less than three times present spot prices and used only in conventional reactors, are enough to last for about 90 years.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/nuclear-power-in-the-world-today.aspx

Quote

They provide over 11% of the world's electricity as continuous, reliable base-load power, without carbon dioxide emissions.

You can do the math that if we were 100% nuclear right now we'd only have 10 years worth of viable uranium, and then we'd be digging up stuff that costs 3 times the current price to dig up, and that's ignoring the fact that prices would be vastly higher if we used 9 times as much uranium, and also the fact that presumably we'd be further through the known resources if we were already using more uranium, meaning we'd probably have already run out of the stuff (what's left would be exorbitantly expensive due to higher demand and higher costs of extraction).

So the economics of expanding uranium power just don't add up. You can't linearly extrapolate the costs, that's not sound economics.

Sure, we'll probably find new sources of uranium, but we're extremely unlikely to discover 6 megatons every decade (an amount equal to the entire amount ever discovered, basically), which is what we'd need to keep finding if we relied on uranium reactors as our primary power source. Uranium is only viable as long as not everyone uses it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2017, 04:18:51 pm

Wilder's PVV, desperate to be included in government formation talks, has also added green energy to his party program. He thinks that by installing treadmills in refugee centers, half of Amsterdam can be powered. After hearing this, the left parties went nuclear. /satire

EDIT: historical fact: during WW2, the Dutch resistance movements commonly used treadmills, in the form of standard-mounted bicycles with a dynamo, to power their radios and listen to British radio.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 20, 2017, 03:10:55 am

Dutch government has decided to go protectionism. They want to add a consideration term to hostile foreign takeovers. When foreign investors try to acquire a large Dutch company through hostile takeover, the new proposed law gives the company a year respite to come up with alternatives.
Recent attempts by PPG to take over Akzo Nobel, and earlier attempts by I think it was Belgacom, to take over KPN prompted them to take this action.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on May 20, 2017, 03:53:06 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 19, 2017, 12:31:02 pm

The only differences between the all-the-same wood and canvas windmills and the all-the-same metal and carbon fiber windmills is that the latter are newer and produce useful amounts of energy.

And that the all-the-same wood and canvas windmills look nice!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 08:07:31 am

Hey, the new ones do too. They're kinda the modern equivalent of 19th century railroads and steam locomotives: You could consider them a modernist atrocity destroying the picture you're accustomed to, or you could see them as symbols of innovation, progress, and bold steps towards the future.

In contrast, when I see an old-school windmill, it reminds me of the hard and gruesome times we have only recently left behind. It reminds me of more than half the population working the land just to feed everyone, of oppressive social hierarchies, of high infant mortality and death by now-trivial infections. Also it reminds me of all the damage unreflected romanticism continues to inflict every day.

You like the way the old-style windmills look? That's fine. But whenever you see one, remember that the folks who built it would've vastly preferred a modern one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on May 20, 2017, 08:18:38 am

Oh, I realise they're worth the tradeoff. That's not what I was saying, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2017, 10:35:57 am

I don't even understand why you call them kills when they have nothing to do with meal. We just call them wind power works.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 20, 2017, 11:17:43 am

We call them aerogenerators

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on May 20, 2017, 12:40:33 pm

... see, if you look at those two terms, and then look at windmill, it should be somewhat obvious why no one's really bothered something entirely appropriate for their better modern use. You can say 'em, too. Windmill: One compound word, two syllables. Compare to aerogenerator, a compound word with... up to six or seven syllables, depending on intonation, or wind power works, three words, three to four (depending on how badly you slur power) syllables. Sufficiently equal functionality, less time and effort. Unsurprisingly, the superior term resists replacement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 20, 2017, 12:55:39 pm

Quote from: Frumple on May 20, 2017, 12:40:33 pm

... see, if you look at those two terms, and then look at windmill, it should be somewhat obvious why no one's really bothered something entirely appropriate for their better modern use. 

Speak for yourself, peasant. My esteemed colleague and I keep a higher standard of lexicon as befitting our exalted status.

(https://smilesinthesky.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/monocle.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 20, 2017, 01:01:42 pm

The formal term is "wind turbine" in the industry, which does follow the naming scheme since instead of milling it turns a turbine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: alway on May 20, 2017, 01:14:23 pm

Quote from: Arx on May 20, 2017, 03:53:06 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 19, 2017, 12:31:02 pm

The only differences between the all-the-same wood and canvas windmills and the all-the-same metal and carbon fiber windmills is that the latter are newer and produce useful amounts of energy.

And that the all-the-same wood and canvas windmills look nice!

What if they were painted?
Cause so far as I can tell, they all need a paint/corrosion resistant layer, they're just uniform because they're utility infrastructure cranked out in large numbers and so they don't want to put custom designs on each one/over-complicate production lines. Images such as the one towards the bottom of this page: https://www.siemens.com/global/en/home/markets/wind/turbines-and-services/technology/blades.html
Show some variations with red striped tips painted on; so aside from increased manufacturing costs of a complicated paint line, it should be doable. And apparently there's even research suggesting that painting them purple could keep insects from gathering near them, reducing bird and bat death: https://cleantechnica.com/2014/11/19/painting-wind-turbines-purple-will-save-wildlife-make-opponents-angrier/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 20, 2017, 01:20:09 pm

Propellers-on-a-stick are terrible aeroflugzeugwindpowerturbinegeneratormill designs.

Drag-type turbine (https://goo.gl/images/VkQNLw) designs, on the other hand, are totally radical jabrowszki.

EDIT: Also if we dye the canvas with graphene the drag turbines become solar panels & water condensers. If the steel holding the canvas is made with graphene it will be stainless & magnetized, meaning it will also be an induction motor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 01:55:49 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on May 20, 2017, 01:20:09 pm

If the steel holding the canvas is made with graphene

Huh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 20, 2017, 02:10:53 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 01:55:49 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on May 20, 2017, 01:20:09 pm

If the steel holding the canvas is made with graphene

Huh?

We normally use plain carbon to make steel. If we crystallize it before we add it to the iron in the forge we're going to have better steel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 02:48:58 pm

Do you have a citation for that? I doubt that the molecular structure of graphene is going to survive being dumped into molten steel.

Also 'crystallize' is not the right term - graphene isn't crystallized carbon, it's just a certain allotrope of the stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 20, 2017, 04:26:47 pm

Isn't crystallized carbon, in fact, diamond?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 20, 2017, 04:36:32 pm

All of elemental carbon's forms (at least the ones I know of) are crystals, technically speaking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 05:42:35 pm

Even the gaseous form? :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 21, 2017, 09:56:03 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 20, 2017, 02:48:58 pm

Do you have a citation for that? I doubt that the molecular structure of graphene is going to survive being dumped into molten steel.

Also 'crystallize' is not the right term - graphene isn't crystallized carbon, it's just a certain allotrope of the stuff.

We still don't have the upper limit on how much heat it can handle. Our best description of its thermal conductivity is ,,perfekt". Our next best description is better than diamond.

And idk how better to describe what I'm doing besides crystallization. I can take amorphous carbon (ash, carbon black, amorphous graphite) and give it more structure i.e. crystalline form. It's also known as functionalization but that term is nebulously vague.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 21, 2017, 10:00:42 am

Thermal conductivity doesn't mean it can stand infinite heat. It's going to burn at some point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 21, 2017, 10:04:58 am

The melting point of graphene is reportedly between 5000-6000k, which is far higher than steel, the idea would have some merit.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/164961-graphene-used-to-make-graphene-copper-composite-thats-500-times-stronger

Quote

Researchers at the Korean Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) have created composite materials using graphene that are up to 500 times stronger than the raw, non-composite material. This is the first time that graphene has been successfully used to create strong composite materials — and due to the tiny amounts of graphene used (just 0.00004% by weight) this breakthrough could lead to much faster commercial adoption than pure graphene, which is still incredibly hard to produce in large quantities.

However, these composites, while stronger than steel, were weaker than pure graphene. So you can't just mix it up and expect to get something stronger than both of the original materials.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on May 21, 2017, 10:07:06 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 21, 2017, 10:04:58 am

The melting point of graphene is reportedly between 5000-6000k, which is far higher than steel, the idea would have some merit.

Diamond's melting point is also pretty high, but it doesn't usually survive to those temperatures because it burns up. Still, in vacuum environment it could probably work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 21, 2017, 10:22:25 am

Quote from: Sergarr on May 21, 2017, 10:07:06 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 21, 2017, 10:04:58 am

The melting point of graphene is reportedly between 5000-6000k, which is far higher than steel, the idea would have some merit.

Diamond's melting point is also pretty high, but it doesn't usually survive to those temperatures because it burns up. Still, in vacuum environment it could probably work.

Due to extensive research done by the University of Pittsburgh, diamond has been confirmed as the hardest metal known to man. The research is as follows:

Pocket-protected scientists built a wall made of iron and crashed a diamond car into it at 400 miles per hour, and the car was unharmed. They then built a wall out of diamond and crashed a car made of iron moving at 400 miles an hour into the wall, and the wall came out fine. They then crashed a diamond car made of 400 miles per hour into a wall, and there were no survivors. They crashed 400 miles per hour into a diamond travelling at iron car. Western New York was powerless for hours. They rammed a wall made of metal into 400 miles an hour made of diamond, and the resulting explosion shifted earths orbit 400 million miles away from the sun, saving the earth from a meteor the size of a small Washington suburb that was hurtling towards mid-western Prussia at 400 billion miles an hour. They shot a diamond made of iron at a car moving at 400 walls per hour, and as a result caused over 10000 wayward planes to lose track of their bearings, and make a fatal crash with over 10000 buildings in downtown New York. They spun 400 miles at diamond into iron per wall. The results were inconclusive. Finally, they placed 400 diamonds per hour in front of a car made of wall travelling at miles per iron, and the result proved with out a doubt that diamonds were the hardest metal of all time, if not just the hardest metal known to man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Harry Baldman on May 21, 2017, 10:33:52 am

Incidental results from the research also showed that jet melts can't beam steel fuel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 22, 2017, 03:08:58 pm

Well, we can make way more graphene than what we currently are producing, using my method, so we can use 1%-3%carbon like current steel. As for the supply, I am meeting with hemp processors from around the world in two weeks & I will be sharing the (albeit unrefined) production method with them freely: graphene should be approaching you soon!

Coincidentally, jet fuel can heat up anhydrous ammonia (NH3) to temperatures where thermite will form. Guess what new-for-cooling-skyscrapers-coolant was running through WTC 1 & 2?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 22, 2017, 07:05:08 pm

FUCK. Multiple dead reported, and explosions at Manchester arena, at concert of popstar Ariane Grand.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/politie-meerdere-doden-bij-incident-in-stadion-manchester-arena-ontploffing-gehoord~a4496508/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/politie-meerdere-doden-bij-incident-in-stadion-manchester-arena-ontploffing-gehoord~a4496508/)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 23, 2017, 01:54:45 am

22 deaths in a suicide attack according to my radio. No one claimed it yet. Nail bomb from what I heard (at least emergency services claiming many schrapnel like thing... Jeez, fucking bastard. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 23, 2017, 02:20:11 am

Outrageous! a concert with kids and families. inhuman.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 04:56:35 am

It makes me so angry that it gives me horrible thoughts. Like, a new law should be passed, that the remains of terrorists should not be returned to their families, but instead fed to pigs. This would deter at least some would-be terrorists, cause according to islam, there's no way you're going to heaven when you're both not properly buried, and eaten by an unclean animal, not even when you're a martyr.
Ofcourse, it wouldn't work. IS and the like would just alter the interpretation of islam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Necrothurge on May 23, 2017, 06:19:06 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 04:56:35 am

It makes me so angry that it gives me horrible thoughts. Like, a new law should be passed, that the remains of terrorists should not be returned to their families, but instead fed to pigs. This would deter at least some would-be terrorists, cause according to islam, there's no way you're going to heaven when you're both not properly buried, and eaten by an unclean animal, not even when you're a martyr.
Ofcourse, it wouldn't work. IS and the like would just alter the interpretation of islam.

It worked with the British colonies and Islamic insurgents in them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on May 23, 2017, 06:20:43 am

IS terrorists mostly try to survive, actually, and aren't too well-versed in the scripture. I wouldn't count on their remains being fed to pigs having any big impact on their decision making.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 06:20:53 am

A loud bang was heard in Arndale shopping centre, Manchester. Shortly after, the centre was evacuated by the police. It has been reopened for use already. Police reports that there was 'an incident in a shopping mall'.

Furthermore, a 23 year old man has been arrested in connection with last night's attack. It's possible that this was at aforementioned shopping centre, but this is as of yet not clear.

The identity of the suicide bomber has been determined, according to May. He was known to the authorities. The name has not been made public yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 06:24:39 am

Quote from: Helgoland on May 23, 2017, 06:20:43 am

IS terrorists mostly try to survive, actually, and aren't too well-versed in the scripture. I wouldn't count on their remains being fed to pigs having any big impact on their decision making.

I don't know how you come to think that they mostly try to survive. Quite the opposite. So far nearly all major attacks in European cities were suicide missions. They only try to survive long enough to blow themselves up, or end their spree in suicide by cop. They may not be well versed in Islam as a whole, but you can bet they know the part about martyrdom damn well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on May 23, 2017, 07:42:49 am

We cross posting things here? I'd like to note that the European Air Transport Command is a thing and all, it's total capability and fleet size is really tiny compared to that of the United States. NATO's airlift capability is, to a very great extent, the USAF's.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 23, 2017, 08:53:00 am

Quote from: Strife26 on May 23, 2017, 07:42:49 am

We cross posting things here? I'd like to note that the European Air Transport Command is a thing and all, it's total capability and fleet size is really tiny compared to that of the United States. NATO's airlift capability is, to a very great extent, the USAF's.

Yeah, and NATO military capability is, to a large extent, the US's.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 23, 2017, 10:19:27 am

I dont even think they even *are* IS terrorists proper. IS makes mass broadcasts to the west calling out for violence. Get your message to enough people and eventually some lunatic will follow you up. Odds are that you can get people to kill in the name of Barney Stintson, if you find the right person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 23, 2017, 01:27:38 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 23, 2017, 10:19:27 am

Odds are that you can get people to kill in the name of Barney Stintson, if you find the right person.

The CIA admitted to manipulating the Counter-culture of the 60s. Why spend twenty years training experts that lead straight back to you when you can outsource the recruitment of operatives (anyone can make a nail bomb) to your well-manipulated goons?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 23, 2017, 02:27:24 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 23, 2017, 10:19:27 am

I dont even think they even *are* IS terrorists proper. IS makes mass broadcasts to the west calling out for violence. Get your message to enough people and eventually some lunatic will follow you up. Odds are that you can get people to kill in the name of Barney Stintson, if you find the right person.

Well, yeah, but are those mass broadcast, or do they then do more convincing one-on-one ? What about furnishing bomb information?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 02:59:31 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 06:20:53 am

The identity of the suicide bomber has been determined, according to May. He was known to the authorities. The name has not been made public yet.

He has been publicly identified as Salman Abedi. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/world/europe/manchester-arena-attack-ariana-grande.html) He was born in the UK, to parents who had immigrated from Libya.

When I see stuff like this, I wonder why we allow people to immigrate from countries like that at all, until they get their shit together.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 23, 2017, 03:26:37 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 02:59:31 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 23, 2017, 06:20:53 am

The identity of the suicide bomber has been determined, according to May. He was known to the authorities. The name has not been made public yet.

He has been publicly identified as Salman Abedi. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/world/europe/manchester-arena-attack-ariana-grande.html) He was born in the UK, to parents who had immigrated from Libya.

When I see stuff like this, I wonder why we allow people to immigrate from countries like that at all, until they get their shit together.

The guy was BORN in the UK, it wasn't his parents that did the bombing. This is the same second generation immigrant problem that Europe is having with MidEast and North African immigrants. Blocking people from immigrating from said countries won't solve the problem if the person was born in the UK, it'd just be someone else doing it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 23, 2017, 03:35:29 pm

Control is better than lack of control. Governments, contrary to popular belief, are not all powerful and cannot necessarily stop immigrants from entering their borders. And not just liberal-left multicultural paradises - even a place as tightly controlled as North Korea has illegal emigration (not sure about immigration given the obvious, but I'd believe it given the number of spies and underground Christians they have).

Pretty much every place in the world has illegal immigrants if illegally immigrating there is desirable. So the options are:

A. Trash the UK so nobody wants to live there - probably not.

B. Allow immigrants a system they prefer interacting with legally to trying to sneak in.

C. Ban immigration to a lesser or greater extent and face a ballooning crisis of undocumented, untraceable, culturally divided, outcasts.

C would cause more terrorism than B. It's stated in that very article that informants within Muslim immigrant communities can and have stopped terrorist plots. Informants rely upon trust. Eliminate trust, and...

There's no level of extreme where C would create a solid border, I'm convinced. Everybody thinks in the back of their mind "what if we just killed everyone", as humans do when we face a hard problem, but again I point to North Korea. Even killing everyone who tries to come in doesn't work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 23, 2017, 03:42:47 pm

The article doesn't even say that they immigrated illegally, they could be legal immigrants or thRough a refugee program.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 23, 2017, 03:46:59 pm

What I mean is that "ban immigration" as an action doesn't take you from "legal immigrants who are sometimes terrorists" to "no immigrants, monocultural utopia upon Albion", but rather it takes you from "legal immigrants who are sometimes terrorists" to "illegal immigrants who are probably less often around but also more often terrorists".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 03:57:12 pm

Why not option D: Strong borders, severe punishments up to and including summary expulsion of any illegals?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 23, 2017, 04:17:28 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 03:57:12 pm

Why not option D: Strong borders, severe punishments up to and including summary expulsion of any illegals?

Because that is included within Option C? It falls for the fallacy of an all powerful state, which we simply do not have. Let's put aside popularity for a moment. For whatever reason, the government is united behind this plan. No immigration from a list of countries that "do not have their shit together" and immediate expulsion into I don't know, Belgium, for any illegal immigrants who get caught.

Well, some of them are not going to try and come. Some of them are going to try and get caught. Some of them are going to succeed in making it there and eventually get caught.

But if the harshest pariah states on Earth, using even more extreme measures, cannot establish a strong border, can you? I ask this question seriously. I don't see any way in which both history and knowledge of the human race doesn't make that an extremely low probability. It's one thing to say it. Another to declare it in law. Another to enforce it meaningfully. And another still to be effective even with the most fanatical enforcement.
 
I'm an American. Illegal immigration and the response to it isn't just a theoretical issue to me, it's a reality I experience pretty regularly. And I'm in goddamn North Carolina, far from our borders. The response of the government at the top level is one thing, but what do you think all the governors of Texas say when they get elected? It's something along the lines of "damn what the globalists in Washington think, we're gonna stop those criminal louts and take back our country this time!".

"This time" finds a way of not working out. Donald Trump gets elected in the biggest political upset...uh...ever on the promise of THE WALL. Front and center. Issue numero uno. He's President of the world's most powerful nation right now with his party in government, so it should be child's play for him to finally stop the immigrant horaannnddd into the budget committee it goes. It's easy to say "stop immigration", it's not so easy to do it.

I will grant that it is not a violation of any of the laws of physics to stop immigrants.

What I'm telling you here, more than anything else, is that the universe doesn't owe you a stance that means there's no terrorism in your country. There is a very real possibility that all options involve terrorist attacks. And there is also a very real possibility that if you say "fuck that, I'll do anything to protect the innocent" that you will cause more terrorist attacks than if you had stuck to option B.

The real option D, if there is one, is to abandon all group separatism and greed to build a utopia on Earth so that nobody wants to be a terrorist....about as likely as option A.

It's a denial of reality to not accept, whether you believe it or not, the possibility that you aren't being given an exit option no matter how "soft" or "hard" you choose to be in responding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:26:29 pm

Alright, given all that, I'll go with option C.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 23, 2017, 04:32:18 pm

And why is that? What advantage do you expect to gain from C that is not present in B? I'd remind you of the words of the article you yourself posted, which said that contacts within the Muslim community were critical for identifying potential terrorists. That doesn't exist in C because the government is dangerous to all immigrants.

That's not even getting into all the citizens of Britain who could choose to become terrorists, which is what this guy was. Past doesn't matter in this context. There's only a future for how that goes.

Hell, contacts within communities have even drastically cut down not terrorism but full-blown sectarian warfare, as seen in Tal Afar. (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/04/10/the-lesson-of-tal-afar)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 23, 2017, 04:33:26 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

No, it would just have been someone else, then you'd say if THAT persons parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it wouldn't have happened.

I swear that type of argument is actually a type of fallacy, not sure which one though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 23, 2017, 04:40:44 pm

Perhaps we should be screening immigrants for the potential of their children committing crimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 23, 2017, 05:09:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on May 23, 2017, 04:40:44 pm

Perhaps we should be screening immigrants for the potential of their children committing crimes.

Even better, screen potential parents as well! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdizzo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 23, 2017, 07:58:33 pm

Well if you know the Demographics of the UK, they were relatively close to a 50/50 split on whether or not to outright ban Muslims (In fact they are more Anti-Muslim then the US is, interestingly).

So, yeah I would say there would be a genuine chance it will cause a muslim ban and increased immigration control. Not to mention other cases.

Quote from: smjjames on May 23, 2017, 04:33:26 pm

No, it would just have been someone else, then you'd say if THAT persons parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it wouldn't have happened.

They could do what immigration often does and institute thought crimes. For example US immigration, for a short period of time, made one of the requirements to enter the US to openly admit to liking Donald Trump.

Of course I don't believe they should do that. Yet, I will not be surprised if the UK immigration does something similar (again >_>)

---

In otherwords expect some changes. Especially given the other changes that were in the making at the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 23, 2017, 08:04:42 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 23, 2017, 08:03:33 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

Great, should've come up with that... what, 30, 40 years ago?

Well knowing UK narrative... What school did he go to? Public/private or Muslim school?

That might be an angle they will go with. That the isolationist / Anti-assimilation attitude of the Muslim community fosters extremism.

Edit: OHH DEAR GAWD!!! Too many Jew Parallels... Ok so maybe they won't go that far given it is yeah... a direct mirror of the same discrimination pitted against the Jewish community. Yeah so I am probably definitely wrong about this one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 23, 2017, 08:11:51 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 23, 2017, 08:06:54 pm

Something else that you're 10 to 20 years too late to fix.

EDIT: Any institutional attempt to "fix" the problem of extremism at home will take at least a decade to make a difference, if not more.

I've little knowledge or experience with that.

What do countries typically do to handle it directly? As a filter I mean first world non-totalitarian governments... as I don't want to hear about genocide or thought crime laws.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lagslayer on May 23, 2017, 08:28:33 pm

The real solution to the """immigration""" crisis is painfully obvious. But even after all else has failed, repeatedly, does anyone here have the nerve to say it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 23, 2017, 08:49:18 pm

Quote from: Lagslayer on May 23, 2017, 08:28:33 pm

The real solution to the """immigration""" crisis is painfully obvious. But even after all else has failed, repeatedly, does anyone here have the nerve to say it?

Lots of people want to make them all leave, if that's what you mean, hence the vandalism of Muslim-owned businesses that's happened over the course of the day. Not as a portion of the population, maybe, but in absolute terms you could fill a lot of rooms with people who do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 23, 2017, 09:04:31 pm

Or we could ya know fix the source that we made in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 23, 2017, 09:12:17 pm

What do you suggest? Because "there won't be Islamic terrorism in Britain if there aren't any Muslims in Britain" isn't a very difficult logical leap to make and if this kind of thing keeps happening, in the absence of a clear alternative, the idea of just kicking them all out will definitely start catching on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 23, 2017, 09:15:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 23, 2017, 09:04:31 pm

Or we could ya know fix the source that he made in the first place.

but that involves caring about other people

and long-term planning

and not putting money (mostly from oil) above everything else

and not supporting proxy wars

and not supporting dictatorships just to spite another unrelated country

how will politicians stay elected if they do that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 24, 2017, 01:47:41 am

Quote from: Baffler on May 23, 2017, 09:12:17 pm

What do you suggest? Because "there won't be Islamic terrorism in Britain if there aren't any Muslims in Britain" isn't a very difficult logical leap to make and if this kind of thing keeps happening, in the absence of a clear alternative, the idea of just kicking them all out will definitely start catching on.

Its  pretty shoddy logic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 02:04:46 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 24, 2017, 01:47:41 am

Quote from: Baffler on May 23, 2017, 09:12:17 pm

What do you suggest? Because "there won't be Islamic terrorism in Britain if there aren't any Muslims in Britain" isn't a very difficult logical leap to make and if this kind of thing keeps happening, in the absence of a clear alternative, the idea of just kicking them all out will definitely start catching on.

Its  pretty shoddy logic

It is far more likely that they will just start kicking out Muslims who show any sort of criticism or discontentment towards the UK government and kick their families out while they are at it. AT LEAST that is what was purposed the UK do, I doubt it will catch on.

What the UK is currently doing is quite the read.

Though the fact that Muslims are becoming further vilified (for lack of a better word) means that any sort of community outreach will be difficult.

It should be said that almost universally the Muslim community, well in the UK, has condemned this bombing. By almost, I mean I haven't found any group that hasn't condemned it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 02:23:17 am

Frankly, I'm never sure in this case if I'm more horrified of the people who wants to punich a whole ethnic/religious group for the actions of one of their member, or the people who want to punish a group for the actions that one of their unborn member might take in half a century.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 03:05:24 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 23, 2017, 08:04:42 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 23, 2017, 08:03:33 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

Great, should've come up with that... what, 30, 40 years ago?

Well knowing UK narrative... What school did he go to? Public/private or Muslim school?

That might be an angle they will go with. That the isolationist / Anti-assimilation attitude of the Muslim community fosters extremism.

Edit: OHH DEAR GAWD!!! Too many Jew Parallels... Ok so maybe they won't go that far given it is yeah... a direct mirror of the same discrimination pitted against the Jewish community. Yeah so I am probably definitely wrong about this one.

Yes you are completely wrong. Jews didn't segregate themselves from society. Only a handful of very religious and traditional jews did that. Most jews completely blended into society. I tend to say, if there hadn't been Hitler, I would probably not have known that I am jewish.

That's not to say that I don't agree with segregation being a problem. I believe it's one of the main reasons we are getting som many homegrown attacks.
We've removed every incentive to integrate into society by providing them with muslim schools, cheap sattelite dishes, a turkish coffehouse, moroccan teahouse and a halal supermarket on every streetcorner. Closing down muslim schools would be a good first step towards not raising another generation in isolation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 03:25:46 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 03:05:24 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 23, 2017, 08:04:42 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 23, 2017, 08:03:33 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

Great, should've come up with that... what, 30, 40 years ago?

Well knowing UK narrative... What school did he go to? Public/private or Muslim school?

That might be an angle they will go with. That the isolationist / Anti-assimilation attitude of the Muslim community fosters extremism.

Edit: OHH DEAR GAWD!!! Too many Jew Parallels... Ok so maybe they won't go that far given it is yeah... a direct mirror of the same discrimination pitted against the Jewish community. Yeah so I am probably definitely wrong about this one.

Yes you are completely wrong. Jews didn't segregate themselves from society. Only a handful of very religious and traditional jews did that. Most jews completely blended into society. I tend to say, if there hadn't been Hitler, I would probably not have known that I am jewish.

That's not to say that I don't agree with segregation being a problem. I believe it's one of the main reasons we are getting som many homegrown attacks.
We've removed every incentive to integrate into society by providing them with muslim schools, cheap sattelite dishes, a turkish coffehouse, moroccan teahouse and a halal supermarket on every streetcorner. Closing down muslim schools would be a good first step towards not raising another generation in isolation.

Are muslim school that common in the Netherlands? I think we have a total of one in Belgium.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 04:08:40 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 23, 2017, 04:33:26 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on May 23, 2017, 04:08:56 pm

If his parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it would not have happened. :)

No, it would just have been someone else, then you'd say if THAT persons parents hadn't been allowed into the UK, it wouldn't have happened.

I swear that type of argument is actually a type of fallacy, not sure which one thought .

How can you talk about fallacies with a straight face when you are making the argument that if this man would not have lived in the UK some other, completely unknowable, person, through completely unknowable means, would have just "done it instead". This is some shitty arse predeterminist logic you've got there. That kind of nonsense appeal-to-alternative-universes reasoning works great for all kinds of things. "If we had prevented him from owning a gun, somebody else would have accidently shot his kid while playing with it!" "If we hadn't built this pipeline without giving a damn about environmental concerns causing the destruction of this Indian holy ground and leaks into the drinking water, someosomeone else would have!" "If we hadn't released all these greenhouse gases and polluted the atmosphere, someone else just would have! Who? I dont know! Where? I don't know! Why? I don't know! When? I don't know! I don't know.That's the beauty of it, see, I don't have to know. I just have to say it would have happened anyway!"

Quote from: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 02:23:17 am

Frankly, I'm never sure in this case if I'm more horrified of the people who wants to punich a whole ethnic/religious group for the actions of one of their member, or the people who want to punish a group for the actions that one of their unborn member might take in half a century.

I'm a lot more concerned about the people who think "we shouldn't worry about what consequences what we build today will have 20 or 30 years from now!" Because thinking long-term is obviously a bad thing.

And not getting to move to Europe is not a punishment, Sheb. That kind of thinking really reveals how much you look down on the rest of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 04:10:32 am

Quote

Yes you are completely wrong. Jews didn't segregate themselves from society. Only a handful of very religious and traditional jews did that.

Let me just throw out a random quote out there. Just completely random.

Quote

In resisting all government attempts to nationalize them, the Jews build a state within the state

When I say there are parallels I mean there are parallels.

The Truth doesn't trump "The Truth" unfortunately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 am

I think the chances of mrs May (or any politician for that matter) gaining the political power, logistics, and will to deport over two and a half million british citizens and residents (5% of the population) to another country are somewhere between "Fuck off haha" and "get real". Especially considering nowhere will take them, and if they just shipped them out to other places anyway countries would start trade embargoing the UK to make them stop.

Not to mention the fact that I literally can't think of a better way to spawn a bunch of armed insurgencies, other than something insane like mass executions of suspected muslims.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 05:19:37 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 am

Not to mention the fact that I literally can't think of a better way to spawn a bunch of armed insurgencies other than mass executions of suspected muslims.

Ohh no I wasn't suggesting that was going to happen. I only noticed that certain ...rhetoric... is similar to the same used against the Jews.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 05:37:35 am

Quote from: Baffler on May 23, 2017, 09:12:17 pm

What do you suggest? Because "there won't be Islamic terrorism in Britain if there aren't any Muslims in Britain" isn't a very difficult logical leap to make and if this kind of thing keeps happening, in the absence of a clear alternative, the idea of just kicking them all out will definitely start catching on.

That's going to cause worse issues however. It would be like WWIII.

e.g. to solve the problem we could also say "Bush & Co should never have destabilized the few stable realms in the region". It's not wrong but it's too late to say that. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Same thing with immigration. He was born in the UK, he wasn't a refugee or immigrant. It was also the Thatcher government which processed and accepted his family, nothing to do with liberals/labor/left here.

He was a disenfranchised young male (college dropout, single, no job). Since he was a UK-born person you'd have to deport his whole family except him. And then think of the big picture. People who get their family deported tend to get angry, and that could tip more disenfranchised young men over the limit than what you're getting already.

the problem is that the least deportable are in fact the biggest risk - young male 2nd/3rd generation guys who don't have good mental health care or support networks. And deporting their older family members (which is what would happen) is only going to set things on fire.

Actually the irony is that the profile for a radicalizable western-born terrorist sounds a lot like the profile of disenfranchised young men who would be supsceptible to being recruited by the alt right or stormfront etc, MRAs, MGTOWs etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 05:40:08 am

Wait... Were the French Terrorists second-third or generation Muslims?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 05:51:19 am

Take a look at some incidents in both UK and france.

- Manchester attacker: 2nd generation immigrant
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/23/europe/manchester-bombing-salman-abedi/

- Westminster attacker: born in Dartford, UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/khalid-masood-everything-know-london-attacker/

- France, Charlie Hebdo shooting: children of immigrants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting#Ch.C3.A9rif_and_Sa.C3.AFd_Kouachi

- France, Nov 2015: planner was Belgian-born muslim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelhamid_Abaaoud
Helped out by a Frenchborn guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabien_Clain

A number of others in various attacks were french nationals, but came from countries previously invaded by France as colonial assets. So there's a bit of anti-colonialism here mixed in with the religion aspect. That's one of the most common links.

Sure there could be some counter-examples, but almost always it's a son of immigrants not an immigrant or refugee. And if we start deporting people's families - and leaving behind local-born children, who can't be deported, then it's likely more high-risk individuals (mentally unstable young men who have low social status) will be deprived of the few social connections / restraints that family provides, and more attacks will happen, not less.

And I'm discounting all the other shit that would hit the fan from creating Gestapo type units to round up immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vilanat on May 24, 2017, 05:55:44 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 05:37:35 am

He was a disenfranchised young male (college dropout, single, no job). Since he was a UK-born person you'd have to deport his whole family except him. And then think of the big picture. People who get their family deported tend to get angry, and that could tip more disenfranchised young men over the limit than what you're getting already.

I've read  that he grew up in an extremely religious environment, attended a mosque which was formerly accused of having ties to Jihadists fund raising in the past and probably dropped out of college to go join Al Qaeda in Libya, aka ISIS. if that's true, he simply followed the path laid before him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 06:00:15 am

Well the media is also reporting that his dad is hardcore anti-jihadist who hates ISIS. I guess that depends where you read that. It wasn't Breitbart or Infowars was it?

also this link that I found (Financial Times) suggests he had a troubled youth with joining streetgangs, only later he converted to radical islam, he never got involved with the islamic stuff at college and the mosque in question denies that he ever attended there:
https://www.ft.com/content/59e2a110-3fda-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2

Other details. Almost all his family had moved overseas recently, meaning he had next to zero family support. He lost his job, dropped out of college, had a troubled youth with the gang thing. We can assume he had no girlfriend, as well as some mental issues (neighbors describe his erratic behavior). It wasn't his upbringing it was a perfect storm of a mentally unstable person having a whole bunch of life stuff collapse in short order, then being radicalized by other unstable individuals of the same age, note that they arrested a 23 year old individual recently.

If ... he had actually been a member of a community such as the local mosque, he might have had some sort of support network that actually prevented this happening, e.g. people to help him out when he lost his job and flunked college. The local imam noted that he's on the local police advisory board and that they're very alert about the types of imams who get hired. He wasn't a member of any sort of formal support network, e.g. formal religion, he was connected with other young unstable dudes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 06:10:54 am

I am actually happy that they aren't blaming videogames anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 06:16:39 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 03:25:46 am

Are muslim school that common in the Netherlands? I think we have a total of one in Belgium.

Heh, they've been popping up like mushrooms in autumn here for the past few decades. There's muslim primary schools, and muslim highschools. Where you have one for the entire nation, we have one per city neigborhood. Tea / coffee houses? One per sub-sub urb. Not yet every streetcorner, but close. Mosques / muslim meeting centers? At least one per ethnicity / islam variant per neighborhood.

It's not evenly divided over the city though. If you go to the wealthier neighborhoods, you'll find little to none.

It's been a returning issue for debate in parliament, whether we should get rid of the so called 'freedom of education' laws, and make public schools really public.
It's always being held back by the christian parties, because if we get rid of the freedom of eduction, they lose their christian schools.

EDIT: for clarification, the freedom of education law states that anyone can found a school based on whatever ideology tickles their fancy. So we have Montessori schools, iPad schools, muslim schools, christian schools, you name it. They do all have to be able to prove to education inspection that they educate the youth up to set national standards though. Christian schools for example are still not allowed to skip evolution, they have to teach it.

EDIT: as a side note, I don't think there's many, or any jewish schools in the Netherlands, or perhaps one, like muslim schools in Belgium. Dutch jews have a tradition of integrating with their fellow Dutchmen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 06:31:51 am

Is there solid evidence that suggests Muslim schools are teaching radicalization?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 06:37:56 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 04:10:32 am

Quote

In resisting all government attempts to nationalize them, the Jews build a state within the state

When I say there are parallels I mean there are parallels.

The Truth doesn't trump "The Truth" unfortunately.

Quote from where?
It sounds like the old nazi propaganda. First, European countries put jews fleeing from Russian pogroms in ghettos, and then they start blaming them that they are living in ghettos, and forming a 'state within a state'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 06:41:55 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 06:31:51 am

Is there solid evidence that suggests Muslim schools are teaching radicalization?

No, and I never said that. They do inherently promote segregation though. Segregation leads to isolation, which is a perfect feeding ground for radicalization.

EDIT: I said no, but there have been one or two cases of muslim schools being warned /  shut down by education inspection for instilling anti-western sentiment.

Now in Belgium that would have been a big thing, it would mean that 200% of all muslim schools are doing that. In the Netherlands, it's luckily just such a very small percentage that it can be labelled 'incidental'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 24, 2017, 06:50:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 04:08:40 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 02:23:17 am

Frankly, I'm never sure in this case if I'm more horrified of the people who wants to punich a whole ethnic/religious group for the actions of one of their member, or the people who want to punish a group for the actions that one of their unborn member might take in half a century.

And not getting to move to Europe is not a punishment, Sheb. That kind of thinking really reveals how much you look down on the rest of the world.

If not a punishment, what is it?

If you had a choice rescinded because of something one of your countrymen did, someone you have no knowledge of, never met, how would you take it?

Perhaps it reveals more about what Sheb thinks about that logic than what he thinks of the rest of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 06:50:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 06:41:55 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 06:31:51 am

Is there solid evidence that suggests Muslim schools are teaching radicalization?

No, and I never said that.

Sorry about that. I promise you I wasn't even trying to imply, even slightly, that you said that.

Quote

Quote from where?
It sounds like the old nazi propaganda

It is Nazi rhetoric used against opposition. Yet I don't know who the quote is from other than "Not Hitler" and technically it might not even be from a Nazi but quoted by Nazis in public discourse.

---

Quote

And not getting to move to Europe is not a punishment, Sheb. That kind of thinking really reveals how much you look down on the rest of the world.

Would you say that the Muslims are here by the allowance of the UK?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 06:53:53 am

OKay I think I get what you are trying to say there.

Note that I am not saying 'muslims are building a state within a state', but rather I am saying 'we, as a state are actively encouraging segregation, and that's a bad thing'.
If I say 'they should shut down all muslim schools immediatly', that's not because I am anti muslim (or perhaps I am in a way, because as a rational being I am averse to any dogmatic belief system that imposes itself as the one truth, including amongst others christianity, zionism, scientology, and atheism), or anti immigrant, but rather, I am in favour of us giving them better means to integrate into society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 07:04:09 am

What you want to do Martinuzz if I can gather from what you have wrote is you want to prevent the Ghettoization of the Muslim community and while Multiculturalism is great, it is unfortunately being used as a tool that allows Muslims to avoid interacting much with the rest of the UK and closing the Islamic Schools might be a great way to reverse that trend in a healthy manner?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 07:05:06 am

Basically, yes.

Closing down muslim schools isn't some magic fix that'll take away the problems though. It's just a small cog in the machine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 07:07:55 am

Quote from: hector13 on May 24, 2017, 06:50:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 04:08:40 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 02:23:17 am

Frankly, I'm never sure in this case if I'm more horrified of the people who wants to punich a whole ethnic/religious group for the actions of one of their member, or the people who want to punish a group for the actions that one of their unborn member might take in half a century.

And not getting to move to Europe is not a punishment, Sheb. That kind of thinking really reveals how much you look down on the rest of the world.

If not a punishment, what is it?

If you had a choice rescinded because of something one of your countrymen did, someone you have no knowledge of, never met, how would you take it?

Perhaps it reveals more about what Sheb thinks about that logic than what he thinks of the rest of the world.

In my mind's context, the people he was saying was being punished was people who want to move to Europe, not people who already live in Europe.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 07:04:09 am

What you want to do Martinuzz if I can gather from what you have wrote is you want to prevent the Ghettoization of the Muslim community and while Multiculturalism is great, it is unfortunately being used as a tool that allows Muslims to avoid interacting much with the rest of the UK and closing the Islamic Schools might be a great way to reverse that trend in a healthy manner?

As I see it, multiculturalism isn't great specifically because it promotes segregation and hinders integration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 07:10:19 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 07:07:55 am

As I see it, multiculturalism isn't great specifically because it promotes segregation and hinders integration.

Not multiculturalism in itself, but rather the current implementation.

Take for example the US. You wouldn't have Halloween, Mardi Gras or even basketball if it wasn't for multiculturalism. Or donuts. Or pretzels. Or pizza.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 07:16:26 am

Well it is really easy to criticize multiculturalism entirely while wrapped in its laurels.

Then again I think strong ghettoization runs counter to multiculturalism. In fact typically places that encourage strong divides between races or religions are not multicultural, at least not by my observation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am

I'm not sure there's evidence that having their own community centers is the issue.

The Manchester guy had little connection to a community, and if you look at the Westminster attacker, he wasn't raise a Muslim, he was a guy with a history of violence, knife attacks, drug and alcohol problems, then in one late stint in jail (he was in at least 4 jails since age 18, mainly for stabbing) he became converted to Islam, by fellow prisoners we can assume. Then he stabbed some more people. what a surprise.

The commonalities seem to be disenfranchisement (could be self-inflicted, but it's still a thing), mental instability and radicalization, but that radicalization often seems to be by like-minded unstable peers rather than a formal community.

So it could be the case that any form of stable social support, e.g. a mosque or other community that you're connected to acts as a buffer to harmful outbursts. e.g. a mosque had members who are men, women, children, young and old. Whereas the social group of the two British "jihadis" of recent attacks both seem to have consisted of male same-age peers who likely also had mental issues, rather than being part of what we'd call a community.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 07:21:07 am

Quote

I'm not sure there's evidence that having their own community centers is the issue.

The evidence I typically get shown, when I state that, are the sections of the UK that have been forcibly put under Sharia Law... and where basically these towns or sections of cities have been locked down by Muslims.

Which I only bring up because perhaps you Reelya can inform me of what the heck was going on there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:34:33 am

Even Daily Mail isn't making such a radical claim, Neonivek, so it has to be extremist conspiracy site material. I'd like to see a citation because it's hard to argue against a paraphrased story without seeing sources.

From what I can read, "Sections" of the UK have not been put under Sharia Law at all. That sounds like clear BS. Mosques have some Sharia tribunals (https://fullfact.org/law/uks-sharia-courts/) attached to them to handle Islamic marriage disputes, that's 99% of what Sharia is about in the UK. But the decisions made there aren't legally binding, they don't overrule UK law. And they're followed voluntarily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 08:03:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 07:10:19 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 07:07:55 am

As I see it, multiculturalism isn't great specifically because it promotes segregation and hinders integration.

Not multiculturalism in itself, but rather the current implementation.

Take for example the US. You wouldn't have Halloween, Mardi Gras or even basketball if it wasn't for multiculturalism. Or donuts. Or pretzels. Or pizza.

That's not multiculturalism, that's cultural exchange/migration where one culture adopts traditions or expressions of another.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 07:16:26 am

Well it is really easy to criticize multiculturalism entirely while wrapped in its laurels.

Then again I think strong ghettoization runs counter to multiculturalism. In fact typically places that encourage strong divides between races or religions are not multicultural, at least not by my observation.

That's because you believe in the fairy tale version of multiculturalism where everybody behaves the same way, thinks the same way, and have the same values as your own culture, except "the ethnics" eat slightly different food and dress in different clothes during their wedding ceremonies. I don't think you understand that different cultures means different values, thoughts, and mindsets from your own, and they're not all going to be as palatable to you as the menu down in your neighbourhood Turkic fast food place.

Quote from: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am

The Manchester guy had little connection to a community, and if you look at the Westminster attacker, he wasn't raise a Muslim, he was a guy with a history of violence, knife attacks, drug and alcohol problems, then in one late stint in jail (he was in at least 4 jails since age 18, mainly for stabbing) he became converted to Islam, by fellow prisoners we can assume. Then he stabbed some more people. what a surprise.

You seem to have an extremely limited interpretation of what a community is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 08:09:32 am

Quote

That's because you believe in the fairy tale version of multiculturalism where everybody behaves the same way, thinks the same way, and have the same values as your own culture

So... I believe in the opposite of Multiculturalism? What would that be?

Oooh I like that word!

Ethno-Nationalistic.

Quote

I don't think you understand that different cultures means different values, thoughts, and mindsets from your own, and they're not all going to be as palatable to you as the menu down in your neighbourhood Turkic fast food place

I am pretty sure that is explicitly what it means.

Though I do like your phrasing, let me rephrase it without changing the meaning: "Multiculturalism means different values, thoughts, and mindsets from your own"

Yet let me rephrase it one more time and simply move the recipient around: "Multiculturalism means your own values, thoughts, and mindsets can be different from others"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 08:13:43 am

Quote

You seem to have an extremely limited interpretation of what a community is.

That's only valid observation if you aren't familiar with how the term "the community" is usually used in English.

The people who do this sort of thing tend to have very fragmented social lives, almost no connection to wider social groups at all. e.g. a regular mosque includes both men and women, families, young and old.

Sure, if your only contacts are two other guys your age who are conspiracy nuts with violent fantasies that could be construed to be a "a community" too, but picking on that point is being anally pedantic about semantics. It's clearly different if you're part of that vs having a rich social life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 08:16:34 am

Starting tomorrow, the party drug 4-FA (also called 4-FMP) will be officially banned in the Netherlands. Studies have shown that next to terrible headaches, other side effects of the drug include heart problems and brain aneurisms. According to authorities, multiple people ended up in hospital after using 4-FA. In Germany and the UK, the drug is already banned.

4-FA is a very cheap party drug which has been gaining popularity over the past few years, especially since it was not illegal.
It's effect is really mild, but there lies it's danger. People tend to consume it in large quantities to approach the effect of xtc, or combine it with other drugs, like alcohol.

This shows that how dangerous a drug is, isn't always directly correlated to how strong it's effects are. It also illustrates the problem with our drug classification laws. A new (designer) drug starts out legal, because there's no direct mention of it in opoid law. Law's always a few steps behind on catching up with new drugs being marketed.
It's only when people start ending up in hospital that the legislation process starts up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 08:22:10 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html)

This is one example of what I mean.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468233/Sharia-courts-UK-prepared-ignore-marital-rape-domestic-abuse-child-marriage-says-prominent-Muslim-professor.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468233/Sharia-courts-UK-prepared-ignore-marital-rape-domestic-abuse-child-marriage-says-prominent-Muslim-professor.html)

Another good article.

These are what are typically brought up when someone talks about how terrible the Muslim community is. I can find more, I just wanted something that would point towards what I was referring to.

---

Of course there is also this nice tidbit. Just thought some extra "understanding where people are coming from"

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/244266/80-london-muslims-support-isis-daniel-greenfield (http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/244266/80-london-muslims-support-isis-daniel-greenfield)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 08:26:04 am

That's the Daily Mail, which is... known for exaggeration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 08:57:47 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 08:09:32 am

Quote

That's because you believe in the fairy tale version of multiculturalism where everybody behaves the same way, thinks the same way, and have the same values as your own culture

So... I believe in the opposite of Multiculturalism? What would that be?

Oooh I like that word!

Ethno-Nationalistic.

Quote

I don't think you understand that different cultures means different values, thoughts, and mindsets from your own, and they're not all going to be as palatable to you as the menu down in your neighbourhood Turkic fast food place

I am pretty sure that is explicitly what it means.

Though I do like your phrasing, let me rephrase it without changing the meaning: "Multiculturalism means different values, thoughts, and mindsets from your own"

Yet let me rephrase it one more time and simply move the recipient around: "Multiculturalism means your own values, thoughts, and mindsets can be different from others"

No, it means people practicing their different values and thoughts. And it means that it is not just a handful of people doing so, but large parts of the demographic. And if you don't acknowledge that those values, when it comes to large swaths of the greater middle East and middle eastern Muslims, include things like child marriages and patriarchal misogyni and persecution of minorities and people different from themselves, then yeah, you're living in the above mentioned fairy tale multiculturalism air castle where every culture is just like your own except in the superficial areas that don't matter shit, like food.

Me myself I had enough of multiculturalism at the point where my country decided that traping children is completely fine if the victim is Muslim, and threatening to kill women is a-okey because the threatener "comes from a culture where exaggerated threats is norm".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:03:34 am

Quote

No, it means people practicing their different values and thoughts

Yes practicing their different values and thoughts such as:
-Freedom of speech
-Freedom of expression
-Freedom of Religion
-Freedom of Assembly
-Freedom of Association
-Freedom of marriage and family

Quote

Me myself I had enough of multiculturalism at the point where my country decided that traping children is completely fine if the victim is Muslim, and threatening to kill women is a-okey because the threatener "comes from a culture where exaggerated threats is norm".

Now where do you get this idea?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:07:35 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

In all fairness I don't know of many countries outside "supposedly" the UK that supports death threats under Multiculturalism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:19:02 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:03:34 am

Quote

No, it means people practicing their different values and thoughts

Yes practicing their different values and thoughts such as:
-Freedom of speech
-Freedom of expression
-Freedom of Religion
-Freedom of Assembly
-Freedom of Association
-Freedom of marriage and family

Those are things you believe in. Those are expressions of your culture. They are not universal values of every culture ever. This is exactly the kind of thing I was getting at by saying you don't actually understand what different cultures mean and only think it is superficial things.

Quote

Quote

Me myself I had enough of multiculturalism at the point where my country decided that traping children is completely fine if the victim is Muslim, and threatening to kill women is a-okey because the threatener "comes from a culture where exaggerated threats is norm".

Now where do you get this idea?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717347/British-Muslims-attacked-abused-threatened-DEATH-Islam)

I have no idea what that link has to do with anything i said, except that I find it not exactly supporting your thoughts in any way.

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

By slaughtering the native populace and then rearranging society into one based entirely on race instead of nationality? No thanks, the US in general is a pretty good example of how not to do things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:20:00 am

Quote

Those are things you believe in. Those are expressions of your culture. They are not universal values of every culture ever. This is exactly the kind of thing I was getting at by saying you don't actually understand what different cultures mean and only think it is superficial things.

You mean different cultures mean people have different cultures?

Yet I don't quite think you understand. What happens to a society that doesn't allow those rights?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:20:42 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:19:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

By slaughtering the native populace and then rearranging society into one based entirely on race instead of nationality? No thanks, the US in general is a pretty good example of how not to do things.

That's not what I meant....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:22:42 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:20:42 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:19:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

By slaughtering the native populace and then rearranging society into one based entirely on race instead of nationality? No thanks, the US in general is a pretty good example of how not to do things.

That's not what I meant....

Also that is OOOOLD news...

And if you want to bring up historical travesties we could be here all day discussing the UKs :P

Isn't that right pretty much every continent in the world?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2017, 09:24:08 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am

I'm not sure there's evidence that having their own community centers is the issue.
The Manchester guy had little connection to a community, and if you look at the Westminster attacker, he wasn't raise a Muslim, he was a guy with a history of violence, knife attacks, drug and alcohol problems, then in one late stint in jail (he was in at least 4 jails since age 18, mainly for stabbing) he became converted to Islam, by fellow prisoners we can assume. Then he stabbed some more people. what a surprise.

The Westminster attacker teaching in Saudi Arabia suggests that he was part of a community, it is important to know that hiding our heads in the sand when the ideological motives for these repeated attacks are so obvious is not going to help protect the vast majority of innocent muslims - suspicion from this deliberate ignorance will merely be cast against them all, instead of against these violent individuals.

Quote from: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am

The commonalities seem to be disenfranchisement (could be self-inflicted, but it's still a thing), mental instability and radicalization, but that radicalization often seems to be by like-minded unstable peers rather than a formal community.

With obvious exception to ISIS volunteer fighters, who were young, well-educated, wealthy and being more well-off and connected increased likelihood of radicalization, with radicalization itself often occurring through student societies. They are a far larger concern than mentally ill lone-wolves, indeed radical preachers and propaganda producers are a greater concern.

Quote from: Reelya on May 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am

So it could be the case that any form of stable social support, e.g. a mosque or other community that you're connected to acts as a buffer to harmful outbursts. e.g. a mosque had members who are men, women, children, young and old. Whereas the social group of the two British "jihadis" of recent attacks both seem to have consisted of male same-age peers who likely also had mental issues, rather than being part of what we'd call a community.

Only in so far as the mosque itself is free from radical influences. With the translation of the koran into native languages being forbidden, often a lot of these mentally ill or disenfranchised individuals, who are zealous converts who cannot read arabic, are utterly dependent upon clerics for their interpretation of Islam. Not just in Western countries mind you, this is especially true in non-Arab Muslim countries, one of my friends was stunned to find Indonesian kids for example being made to reciting when they had no idea what the hell they were saying meant. This is an issue when the clerics want them to kill the infidels (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/24/there-is-nothing-to-stop-other-radical-islamic-preachers-taking/). Often too, given the dogmatic approach to holy canon in large branches of the religion, will read and interpret everything in a rather fundamentalist way. It is perhaps useful, if in danger of muddying the waters of clear distinction, to draw comparison between today's "radicalization" and the dilemmas enlightenment era America faced. Its protestants embraced rationalism, humanism and so forth, yet the American populations spread so thin with few historical institutions to bind them, were prone to religious fundamentalism - paradoxically growing communities that would most fiercely reject the very same rational principles their countrymen had helped create. Thus sects like Salafi Islam which wish to return to a pure fundamentalist romantic image of the past, wherein Islam was world-conquering and its followers pure and zealous, can be noted to have appeared as reactions to previous Islamic sects being undermined by modernism and post-modernist thoughts. The West then has many major barriers to face to ever deal with such zealotry the same way they dealt with apocalyptic or fundamentalist Christian cults. The first and foremost is that of state support and quantity, Christian fundamentalists like the Westborough Baptist Church for example have 40 members, Salafi jihadis number 10 million (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/front/special/sala.html) and Salafis number in the tens of millions from Sweden to Bangladesh - being not a dying cause, but the fastest growing religion today. One which has the backing of a particular wealthy state:
"The European Parliament, in a report commissioned in 2013, claimed that Wahhabi and Salafi groups are involved, mainly via Saudi charities, in the 'support and supply of arms to rebel groups around the world.' (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4omMCwAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=Force%20&pg=PA246#v=onepage&q=Salafi&f=false)
The other major issue is that most Western academics have zero way to challenge any extremism as they would an extremist Christian sect, for starters there is the PC angle and for seconds they don't speak arabic. There is no justice in seeking to crush adherents of a faith over mass murderers, even given the ideological motive, things are not nearly bad enough to justify abandoning such a fundamental right as the freedom of belief. Still, there exist some very basic civil challenges that could be made that are not made, and laws which could be enforced which are not enforced, largely out of Western terror, whether fear of being killed or fear of being called racist - which is another form of ideological extremism entirely. While I agree the prospect of an overreaction is more dangerous to Western states than some of the attacks, simply doing nothing and allowing extremist networks to become better organized, better connected and increasing the population of disenfranchised Muslims is simply going to ensure not only that the attacks continue increasing in pace, but the state will increasingly grow weaker until there are cracks to be filled by criminals and fighters - much like Sweden struggles with today.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 am

Not to mention the fact that I literally can't think of a better way to spawn a bunch of armed insurgencies, other than something insane like mass executions of suspected muslims.

Given the level of gun control, any successful weapon procurement efforts are likely to attract attention which would come with immediate crackdown. A disarmed populace does not an insurgency make.

Quote from: hector13 on May 24, 2017, 06:50:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 04:08:40 am

And not getting to move to Europe is not a punishment, Sheb. That kind of thinking really reveals how much you look down on the rest of the world.

If not a punishment, what is it?
If you had a choice rescinded because of something one of your countrymen did, someone you have no knowledge of, never met, how would you take it?
Perhaps it reveals more about what Sheb thinks about that logic than what he thinks of the rest of the world.

A choice rescinded? The entire world is not entitled to live in Europe regardless of whether Europeans having not invited, allowed them in or even having rejected or previously deported them. If we are to tell all EU citizens that their countries belong to whoever wishes without their consultation or permission needed, how would they take it? I daresay, we see their reaction now - it is an ugly thing

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 07:10:19 am

Not multiculturalism in itself, but rather the current implementation.
Take for example the US. You wouldn't have Halloween, Mardi Gras or even basketball if it wasn't for multiculturalism. Or donuts. Or pretzels. Or pizza.

It's wrong to think that cultural exchange or cultivation requires mass immigration to occur, it occurs irregardless, and to justify policy that will decide the course of civilization on your present day culinary tastes is to lend credence to the argument that Westerners do not deserve the west, and it should rightfully be inherited by migrants who do not support policy in exchange for pizza or pretzels.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:22:42 am

Also that is OOOOLD news...
And if you want to bring up historical travesties we could be here all day discussing the UKs :P

No we wouldn't, because you buckle the moment someone asks you to back anything up with facts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:25:00 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:22:42 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:20:42 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:19:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

By slaughtering the native populace and then rearranging society into one based entirely on race instead of nationality? No thanks, the US in general is a pretty good example of how not to do things.

That's not what I meant....

Also that is OOOOLD news...

And if you want to bring up historical travesties we could be here all day discussing the UKs :P

Or even Swedens, given that Scriver is Swedish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

Quote

No we wouldn't, because you buckle the moment someone asks you to back anything up with facts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html)

SQUASH!

But personally I'd hope you would know SOME UK history so I wouldn't need to get third party sites so you know things like the Boer War occurred or that India exists.

Quote

indeed radical preachers and propaganda producers are a greater concern.

SOURCE NEEDED

Quote

A choice rescinded?

Just like the Jews in the UK! That was the exact logic behind it! Parallels just keep coming one after the other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 09:49:04 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

Quote

indeed radical preachers and propaganda producers are a greater concern.

SOURCE NEEDED

Basically every official report made by Belgian, Dutch, UK and pobably the other west EU intelligence agencies for the last 10 years. Or to nuance it, intelligence services do see lone wolves as a concern as well, mostly because they're harder to notice. But their main concern is hate imams, and both online as well as face to face propaganda.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:49:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:20:42 am

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:19:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:05:23 am

Perhaps you guys in Europe are doing multiculturalism wrong, you should do it the way we do it in the US.

Of course though, it probably helps to be a country of immigrants.

By slaughtering the native populace and then rearranging society into one based entirely on race instead of nationality? No thanks, the US in general is a pretty good example of how not to do things.

That's not what I meant....

But it is true. The US society is one that has completely replaced actual nationalities with racial pseudo-nationalities. If you're white enough you get to fit in and be American. If you're too brown you don't belong. The "white nation" then pats itself on the back and congratulates each other on what a nice "melting pot" they have going where anyone can fit in and while they choose to ignore that it just so happens that only white enough ethnicities are part of the pot and that they haven't even been able to "melt together" with the afro-American population that's been living there for just as long or longer as any euro-American.

So no, we get enough American racist nonsense through you exporting your "white nation" supremacist bullshit to our nationalist supremacist nuts. I really would not like the whole race-based way of viewing the world to follow.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:20:00 am

Quote

Those are things you believe in. Those are expressions of your culture. They are not universal values of every culture ever. This is exactly the kind of thing I was getting at by saying you don't actually understand what different cultures mean and only think it is superficial things.

You mean different cultures mean people have different cultures?

Yet I don't quite think you understand. What happens to a society that doesn't allow those rights?

No, I quite do not understand you right now because you are not making any sense or presenting a coherent point. Make the argument, don't beg it.

Preedit:

Quote from: Loud Whispers

A choice rescinded? The entire world is not entitled to live in Europe regardless of whether Europeans having not invited, allowed them in or even having rejected or previously deported them. If we are to tell all EU citizens that their countries belong to whoever wishes without their consultation or permission needed, how would they take it? I daresay, we see their reaction now - it is an ugly thing

Hector was clearly referring to people already living in Europe by that statement, LW, whether by birth or acceptance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:50:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 09:49:04 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

Quote

indeed radical preachers and propaganda producers are a greater concern.

SOURCE NEEDED

Basically every official report made by Belgian, Dutch, UK and pobably the other west EU intelligence agencies for the last 10 years

That Muslim Preachers are freely radicalizing all the youth?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2017, 09:51:18 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

SQUASH! Need more?
But personally I'd hope you would know SOME UK history so I wouldn't need to get third party sites... But lets play your game.

No, these are all known to me and I could show you more. Honestly this is already a vast improvement over your normal concept of discourse so I would hope you continue to play.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

SOURCE NEEDED

A lone wolf suicide attacker is a self-limiting issue, once they have launched their suicide attack they are unlikely to launch another one, because they will either be dead or in prison. A preacher or cleric who is encouraging people into becoming suicide attackers is not a self-limiting issue, and will continue to recruit attackers until persuaded otherwise. Thus the latter is the greater issue in my opinion, they are the source of the former and one which is highly motivated to continue motivating others. Alternatively, you can read the source I did provide, detailing how a radical preacher motivated lone wolves to launch terrorist attacks. Your enthusiasm is somewhat let down by your distaste of effort :/

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:29:01 am

Just like the Jews in the UK! That was the exact logic behind it! Parallels just keep coming one after the other.

What are you referencing? What argument are you making? What parallels are occurring? Please for sake of clarity use compound sentences describing these most important details

*edit

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 09:49:36 am

Hector was clearly referring to people already living in Europe by that statement, LW, whether by birth or acceptance.

No, they were referring to those who wished to move to Europe - look at the whole "not getting to move to Europe is a punishment" thing and the response, "if it is not a punishment, what is it?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 09:55:47 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:50:02 am

That Muslim Preachers are freely radicalizing all the youth?

You keep overgeneralizing things that are being said. No, no Muslim preachers in general, just those that preach intolerance and hatred. Most notably, Saudi funded wahabist preachers. Belgium deported a handful last year iirc, and the Netherlands tried to stop one that was banished from Belgium from entering the country but failed legally.

Silly, that, really. We can has stop Turkish minister from speaking in our country, but we cannot has stop hate-imam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:58:18 am

Mostly stuff in this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England)

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 09:55:47 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:50:02 am

That Muslim Preachers are freely radicalizing all the youth?

You keep overgeneralizing things that are being said. No, no Muslim preachers in general, just those that preach intolerance and hatred. Most notably, Saudi funded wahabist preachers. Belgium deported a handful last year iirc, and the Netherlands tried to stop one that was banished from Belgium from entering the country but failed legally.

Silly, that, really. We can has stop Turkish minister from speaking in our country, but we cannot has stop hate-imam.

If I am overgeneralizing then I am 100 times more specific then what has been said. "Vague Muslim enemies" is kind of propagandist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:58:38 am

@Scriver: We have our problems, yes, I'm not denying that, but explain how muslims in the US are far more integrated in society than in European society. There has to be something we're doing right that you're doing wrong. THAT is what I'm freaking trying to say!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:59:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:58:38 am

@Scriver: We have our problems, yes, I'm not denying that, but explain how muslims in the US are far more integrated in society than in European society. There has to be something we're doing right that you're doing wrong. THAT is what I'm freaking trying to say!

Well first step is just drop the whole Muslim aspect.

What is the US doing to integrate immigrants that the UK isn't doing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 10:01:28 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:59:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:58:38 am

@Scriver: We have our problems, yes, I'm not denying that, but explain how muslims in the US are far more integrated in society than in European society. There has to be something we're doing right that you're doing wrong. THAT is what I'm freaking trying to say!

What is the US doing to integrate immigrants that the UK (and every other European country) isn't doing?

Bam, exactly. Thanks for summarizing what I was trying to say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 10:09:50 am

Not much, except for instilling every kid with patriotism and flag waving affection from young age and using the power of Oprah to complete the brainwashing program.
National pride is still tainted over here in Europe.

Still, you too had your Boston bombers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on May 24, 2017, 10:14:00 am

Notes on A Disagreeable Ism
Or
Silverthrone Complains & Mutters with Unusual Clarity

The root problem, in my mind, of multiculturalism is that insidious, vicious little “ism” stamped on its tail.

Cultural exchange occurs 'naturally', as it were, and so do cultural enrichment. That is, proper cultural enrichment, not the hideous, harmful fraud that is often labelled as such. It is simply what happens when people and cultures rub together.

However, the addition of an “-ism” makes it ideology. It means that cultural exchange should not merely happen, but should be encouraged at any cost, and that it is a goal in and of itself to become “multicultural”. It also carries with it a certain ideal. An ideal of the future that multiculturalism will build, and also what it is. One of these ideals is that everyone will be in agreement of the things that matter, such as the universal human rights, freedom of speech, freedom of orientation and so forth.

That ideal, however, does not stand up very well. There are an awful lot of people who, for partly cultural reasons, reject universal human rights, freedom of speech, et cetera, and would like them counter-acted and reworked. That, I believe, cannot be allowed. However, by the ideal, tolerance and acceptance for a strange culture, and the eventual fusion with it, is of such value that it cannot risk being hindered, and that the home culture ought not to impose its own traits upon it. Part of this is the ideal that, if left alone and given room, all cultures will abandon the less palatable traits within it, and adopt the same respect and belief in universal human rights et al. on its own. That, of course, does not necessarily need to happen.

That is but one difficulty I have with cultural exchange being elevated to a strange ideology of its own. Cultural exchange need not be good, just as little as it would be entirely bad. There are negative traits, and it is well within the rights of members of other cultures to decide if they wish to see those traits imported and those customs practised in their lands.

I believe that the rigid, narrow-sighted ideological form of multiculturalism is well due for the scrap-yard. The alternative need not be equally narrow-sighted Puritanism and repression in the name of halting cultural change. Merely seeing cultural exchange as a neutral phenomenon rather than a great ideal will be enough. Some exchange ought to be encouraged, some must be challenged.

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 09:58:38 am

@Scriver: We have our problems, yes, I'm not denying that, but explain how muslims in the US are far more integrated in society than in European society. There has to be something we're doing right that you're doing wrong. THAT is what I'm freaking trying to say!

The Americas are significantly farther away from the Middle East, and has been more difficult to enter and settle within. It is a rather small factor, but it might have reflected itself in that most of the muslims migrating to the United States might have been more willing and prepared to integrate and build a new community, rather than attempting to import the old life and community with them. Perhaps settling in America was more of a new endeavour, a fresh start, requiring a certain set of mind, while moving to, say, Belgium was a simpler affair in response to a crisis back home.

That is, however, an assumption. I do not know, and I am rather intrigued to understand more about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 10:15:55 am

Yeah, the fact that in the US, about 1% of the population is muslim vs 5-10% or more (France, 11%) in EU countries might have something to do with it as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 24, 2017, 10:33:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 09:55:47 am

You keep overgeneralizing things that are being said. No, no Muslim preachers in general, just those that preach intolerance and hatred. Most notably, Saudi funded wahabist preachers. Belgium deported a handful last year iirc, and the Netherlands tried to stop one that was banished from Belgium from entering the country but failed legally.

Silly, that, really. We can has stop Turkish minister from speaking in our country, but we cannot has stop hate-imam.

Pretty much, what Reelya said earlier about Imams being able to help young Muslims (especially recent converts) become productive members of their community is correct, yet it makes no sense to ignore the ones who are doing the exact opposite and telling their spiritual dependents to go kill everyone.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:58:18 am

Mostly stuff in this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England)

What are you referencing? What argument are you making? What parallels are occurring? Please for sake of clarity use compound sentences describing these most important details.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 09:58:18 am

If I am overgeneralizing then I am 100 times more specific then what has been said. "Vague Muslim enemies" is kind of propagandist.

Are you trolling?

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2017, 10:01:28 am

Bam, exactly. Thanks for summarizing what I was trying to say.

If this was merely an issue of immigration, we would be dealing with Slavic and Hindu mass murderers on the street, shouting adidas is the brand of peace and waving around Hindu swastikas. Besides all the reasons I listed in a few posts back here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7464112#msg7464112), integration was dealt with in the multicultural fashion. Germany, the Netherlands, France and Sweden all have very specific and different patterns of immigration and multiculturalism, which I will not generalize, so instead will focus on the UK.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2016, 11:59:20 am

From the Beeb:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Farzana Ameen (39), left with her husband Imran Ameen (40) and five children to join ISIS. She told relatives whatever she was doing was for the best for their children. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11931632/Mother-feared-to-have-taken-children-to-Syria-said-she-was-doing-what-was-best-for-them.html) They were not discriminated against, because they lived in areas that are almost exclusively Muslim that show hostility to Christians who work or live there. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575402/I-feel-like-an-alien-in-my-home-town.html) The Council of Bradford Mosques also leading the British attempt to extend blasphemy laws, ban the satanic verses or force an apology from Salman Rushdie, who had to be put under the protection of British police due to a fatwa issued against him. His book was burned in his stead. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7883308.stm)
Mohammed Fakhri Al-Khabass (25), a British-Palestinian medical student, the son of a Muslim doctor, by 2011 he took over the University's Islamic Cultural Association (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33502534) and under his leadership, started pushing for stricter Islam and eventually recruited 16 British students to join ISIS in Iraq and Syria before joining them there himself. He was living in Sudan, where the constitution is proudly 100 percent Islamic without communism or secularism or Western influences, to set an example for its neighbours. (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sudan-constitution-idUKBRE8660IB20120707)
Rehan Ameen (30), brother to Imran Ameen, joined for reasons unknown. Lived in Bradford.
Mohammed Saleem Mohamed Ahmed El-Raba'a (23), medical student, joined ISIS after being recruited by Fakhri Al-Khabass.
Ayman Siddig Abdel-Aziz (21), medical student, same as Saleem.
Amier Mamoun Sidahmed Elawad (20), same as Saleem.
Mohamed Adil Bashir Ageed (22), about to graduate from Med school, same as Saleem.
Ibrahim Adil Bashir Ageed (20), same as Saleem.
Sugra Dawood (34), eldest of three sisters who left with her five children (in total, their group had 9 children traveling with them) who went to pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia. Instead of going home to Bradford, went to Iraq and Syria. She ignored her husband's appeal to come home with their kids.
Zohra Dawood (33), Khajida Dawood (30), went with Sugra.
Rajia Khanom (21), part of an extended family of 12, went to Bangladesh for a holiday but failed to return home to Luton, instead saying they felt safer than they ever felt before living in ISIS's territory.
Mohammed Zayd Hussain (25), Mohammed Toufique Hussain (19), Roshanara Begum (24), Mohammed Saleh Hussain (26), Sheida Khanam (27), Mohammed Abil Kashem Saker (31), Minera Khatun (53), Muhammed Abdul Mannan (75), the extended family of Rajia. A quarter of Luton is Muslim (http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6275157&c=luton&d=13&e=62&g=6394327&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1469115128702&enc=1&dsFamilyId=2479&nsjs=true&nsck=false&nssvg=false&nswid=1536) and is famed for having been the birthplace of Salafi jihadist groups (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muhajiroun), the same which produced the terrorist who beheaded one of our soldiers on our streets.
Deqo Osman (18), got into University and applied for a student loan, upon which point he use the loan money not to pay for Uni fees, but to fly to Syria because he wanted to live in an Islamic Utopia. (http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-11-13/teenager-blew-student-loan-to-travel-to-join-islamic-state/) Deqo Osman flew back on the behest of his father after having stayed in an ISIS safehouse, upon his return to the UK he was detained and has been sentenced 5 years in prison, the court were lenient because he had an IQ of 65. (http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/crime-court/jailed_willesden_teenager_who_flew_to_syria_to_join_isis_1_4315590)
Swaleh Mohammed (19), Ibrahim Amouri (18), Khalid Abdul-Rahman (19), friends from mosque who traveled with Deqo Osman to join ISIS, but returned and were prosecuted. Their IQs were not small like Deqo. Mohammed Osama Badri (age unknown), one of the med students recruited by Saleem. Rowan Kamal Zine El-Abidine (age unknown), one of the med students who ran the Islamic Cultural Association with Saleem, running the branch for women's activities. Tasneem Suliman (age unknown), another med student born from doctors who went with Saleem. Husham El-Sheikh (age unknown), med student who left with Saleem.
Lena Mamoun Abdelgadir (19), daughter of a surgeon who grew up in East Anglia, as a med student went off with Saleem. Described as furiously bright by her teachers. Lojain Abusibah (age unknown), had graduated from medicine when he joined ISIS with Saleem.
Tamir Ahmed Abusibah (24), graduated from medicine when he joined ISIS with Saleem. Nada Sami Khider (age unknown), made propaganda videos in Syria urging British medical students to come to Syria to work in ISIS hospitals.
Ahmed Sami Khider (24), med graduate, went to grammar school, son of a doctor, told those in the West: "All you are doing is sitting in the West in the comfort of your homes. Use your skills and come here."
Hassan Munshi (17), Britain's youngest suicide bomber, his parents believed some kind of peer pressure (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-33129806) caused him to die for ISIS. Police had this statement: "But the police can't arrest everyone - and evidence shows it is difficult to bring someone back from the edge, once they are radicalised." But the Danes are bringing their fighters back and allowing them to walk their streets anyways. I digress.
Shamima Begum (15), Khadiza Sultana (16), Amira Abase (15), three straight-A students who went to Syria. From Tower Hamlets, the only local authority in England where Muslims are the largest population, there's not much to say about their story, so have the Guardian talking about how Jihadi brides aren't oppressed and join for the same reasons men do, to think otherwise is sexist and that is the most important concern here. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/04/jihadi-brides-arent-oppressed-they-join-isis-for-the-same-reasons-men-do)
Abu Zayd al-Britani (age unknown, real name unknown), speaks with a British accent and says he's Al-Britani.
Ibrahim Kabir Sadik (24), converted to Islam who worked as a teacher after graduating with an economics degree, lived in London. Not much else to say about him other than he was linked to some men who tried to defraud English pensioners of £1,000,000. Sharmeena Begum (14), hometown London, was studying for GCSEs before leaving East London to join ISIS.
Hamayun Tariq (age unknown) a car mechanic from the West Midlands whose had his social media accounts repeatedly suspended because he uses them to post bomb making instructions. He joined ISIS already a veteran warrior who previously fought for the Taliban, now teaching his students how to repair vehicles and manufacture IEDs.
Jack Letts (18), also known as Jihadi Jack, is the first Englishman on this list. His parents said he was mentally ill, and Jack denies he is a member of ISIS. Nonetheless he says he fears prosecution if he returns and his motive is he wants to spread the word of Allah, take down the Syrian government and believes the USA is trying to exterminate Muslims one by one. From a middle class Christian English family in Oxford.
Aisha Tariq (30), left London with her four kids and her husband.
Her husband Dhar (31) was an advocate for global jihad and released a video showing him executing alleged spies for working with "the crusader coalition." His video warns that those who do not turn to Islam or do not return to it will lose in this life and the next, before ordering a child to press the detonation trigger.
Samya Dirie (17), Yusra Hussien (15), the former from London and the latter from Bristol, told parents they were prospecting at Universities but took their passports with them, at which point their parents contacted police. Appealing to his daughter through the media her father, Abidirashiid Saciid Dirie said: "You are after paradise by going there, but you will achieve paradise by pleasing your parents." Neither have returned, and it is suspected Yusra has gotten married.
Sajid Aslam (34), supply teacher who went to fight for ISIS. His wife Lorna Moore (originally a northern Irish protestant) was a part of the 'Babies for ISIS' group and was convicted before she could fly to Syria to join her husband.
Issam Abuanza (36) from Sheffield, worked in the NHS as a doctor for 7 years before joining ISIS to work as a doctor for them. Dr. Abuanza had this to say about the live incineration of the captured Jordanian:“I would’ve liked for them to burn him extremely slowly and I could have treated him again so we could have torched him once more.” Abu Waqqas al-Albani (age unknown, real name unknown), he describes himself as Al-Albani and his hometown was London. Joined ISIS and made videos calling for a Brussels style attack in London, and videos encouraging suicide attacks in London.
I just picked these from top down, left to right, got bored and stopped researching each individual profile, search the rest if you want more. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985) (I am probably on all the watchlists now lol).

The takehome is Western progressive strategy has made everything worse, and will continue to make everything worse.
Contrary to popular views - religious practice, health and social inequalities, discrimination, and political engagement showed no links. What increases risk is youth, wealth, and being in full-time education. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/274292.php) Many of our most extreme radicals, willing to die and kill for ISIS, come from areas where discrimination targets Christians, Jews, Hindus Slags, Gays, Drunks, Apostates and so on, and they live well-off with no financial worry. And Germany invited millions of young fundamentalist Sunni men who they're now educating and are counting on to run their country as Germans die out. I'm damn excited at what the hell's going to happen in Germany.
If the conclusion americans find is that europeans are not tolerant and progressive enough, failure will continue to be the result and yuropoors will be europast

To start with, our government forced mass immigration to make the UK multicultural (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html). They then encouraged all arrivals to behave not as individuals, but as communities.
For seconds, I dispute the claim that the USA has integrated Muslims into US society better than in European society. The USA's post 9/11 paranoia, wherein Sikhs are killed for being mistaken as Muslim, has not been a forgiving one. By contrast the British fighters who volunteered to join ISIS and commit genocide, great raping and destruction of Syria's people - are undeniably British, and are people who had integrated exceedingly well. This is in spite of the USA's Muslim population being a quarter converts who are already integrated Americans, in spite of the USA having a stringent selection process for who enters the USA, and the USA's Muslim population being small - this is rather cheeky then, to turn around and say that Europe should not do as the USA does. Having good jobs, good education, good family and friends, behaving well and even when abroad speaking English with English accents, complaining when their Arab colleagues steal their shoes and play the same vidya or watch the same TV as their peers at home, if they were not committing war crimes they wouldn't have an issue in the UK. What really separates them from everyone else is their willingness to kill all infidels who do not subscribe to their fundamentalist doctrines. Lack of integration is an issue, however one that is most prudent when dealing with new immigrants, not as serious an issue as for those who have been born and raised in the UK. There are some further issues, such as Western treatment of apostates in Islam or treatment of Muslims as one homogenous community, not a heterogenous one split by nationality, sect, practice, adherence to orthodoxy or fundamentalism, individual belief or local custom, which I might go on about but at this point I am exhausted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 10:50:38 am

Yeah, the difference is that European countries accept a whole lot more Muslim immigrants than the US, which makes it possible for them to segregate themselves from the rest of society. For Sweden, the main problem with this appear to have started in the early 00's and just kept getting bigger and bigger (unsurprisingly it is the children of those who arrived then that is now growing up into terrorists, ISIS volunteers and the like.
People who arrived before then, like a lot of kurds and Iranians, are much better integrated into Swedish society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 24, 2017, 11:13:48 am

Other factors you hear are that the lower safety net and minimum wages of the US pushes more recent migrant into work (both because they have no choice, and because it allows for more low-wage jobs for low-skills people).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 24, 2017, 12:39:56 pm

Seems that muslim-related unrest is directly proportional to the percentage of the total population being muslim then, similar to how it is with everyone else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 01:17:28 pm

Back to news about the actual happening: This article states that the man arrested in Chorlton yesterday is reported to be the perpetrator's older brother (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/abedi-kand-av-brittiska-sakerhetspolisen-fler-gripanden/).  This article is reporting that BBC is reporting that Reuters is reporting that his younger brother has been arrested in Tripoli on charges of "consorting with ISIS", and that AP is reporting that his father also has been arrested there (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/misstankte-bombmannens-yngre-bror-gripen-i-tripoli/). I'm thinking that there might be some confusion and there's only one guy arrested, but who knows.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 24, 2017, 01:26:04 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 24, 2017, 01:17:28 pm

Back to news about the actual happening: This article states that the man arrested in Chorlton yesterday is reported to be the perpetrator's older brother (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/abedi-kand-av-brittiska-sakerhetspolisen-fler-gripanden/).  This article is reporting that BBC is reporting that Reuters is reporting that his younger brother has been arrested in Tripoli on charges of "consorting with ISIS", and that AP is reporting that his father also has been arrested there (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/misstankte-bombmannens-yngre-bror-gripen-i-tripoli/). I'm thinking that there might be some confusion and there's only one guy arrested, but who knows.

All those arrests were one because we are all one in Pathos, scriver

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lagslayer on May 24, 2017, 01:34:30 pm

I made one post, logged out for the night, came back, and Godwin had taken over the thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 04:58:04 pm

Anyhow can I have a link to it being Legal in the UK to make death threats so long as your a foreigner?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2017, 05:17:29 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 04:58:04 pm

Anyhow can I have a link to it being Legal in the UK to make death threats so long as your a foreigner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 24, 2017, 05:19:37 pm

its just a general thing in the US for most death threats not to have anything done about them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 24, 2017, 05:34:37 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on May 24, 2017, 05:19:37 pm

its just a general thing in the US for most death threats not to have anything done about them.

Most death threats aren't illegal in the US because the courts apply standards of plausibility, specificity, and immediacy to them. You can't be charged for posting the NAVY Seal Copypasta at someone because it's implausible, you are not actually a NAVY Seal and you do not have the ability to wipe them the fuck out with precision like you've never seen before. You can't be charged for calling for the deaths of all black people because it's unspecific, your murder boner isn't pointed at an identifiable person but the general category of black people. You can't even be charged for saying a specific person ought to be killed because your ethos that they should be killed is not marked by an intention of action (whether they're a death row prisoner or a celebrity).

To be charged for death threats, at least in theory, you need a mixture of all three. Saying your neighbor should be fed into a pit of lions is specific (neighbor) and immediate (lions), but lacks plausibility. In practice, this is a somewhat subjective judgement and probably is not applied very evenly, leading to the courts trying to not apply it at all. Hence why a lot of these cases are the threats towards Presidents rather than general Americans, because a different standard is applied there.

Or so says my layman's interpretation.

In European laws, the standards I see are based more upon the fear of the victim and the state of the threat's motivation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2017, 08:37:48 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on May 24, 2017, 04:58:04 pm

Anyhow can I have a link to it being Legal in the UK to make death threats so long as your a foreigner?

I am still Swedish, not British. But unfortunately I cannot find the article where I read about it (it was an opinion piece in Göteborgs-Posten), so I can't source it either to that or to the court decision.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 02:50:15 am

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:43:19 am

The Manchester attack turns out to be yet another major intelligence service fuckup.

The perpetrator had been reported to authorities 5 times. His friends had called the police after he had stated that it is okay to be a suicide terrorist. His mosque had warned the police that he was radicalizing. His own familiy called the police, to warn them that the man was a threat. Furthermore intelligence services were aware that he was a member of a Libyan group linked to al Qaida.
Not much was done with this knowledge. The man had been placed on a watchlist, but wasn't being watched closely.

Meanwhile, while raiding some places, police arrested 6 more people, and found more explosives, which have been detonated remotely by the bomb squad. Rumour has it that intelligence agencies are 'very worried' by the explosives found. They fear there will be more attacks soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 03:46:10 am

So basically EVERYTHING was working correctly in terms of community both Muslim and otherwise.

It was the British Gov that FUDGED THE FUDGE up? am I getting this right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:49:03 am

Yes. The stupidity is so overwhelming it almost makes one think that they allowed it to happen on purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2017, 03:49:10 am

Seems like almost every terror attack has a severe Intel fuckup behind it these days.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 03:46:10 am

So basically EVERYTHING was working correctly in terms of community both Muslim and otherwise.

It was the British Gov that FUDGED THE FUDGE up? am I getting this right?

Definetly looks like it. Everything in terms of reporting him and raising red flags sounds like it was working correctly, it's the authorities that dropped the ball.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:51:39 am

I wonder if it'll affect May's popularity and makes her lose the elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2017, 03:55:28 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:51:39 am

I wonder if it'll affect May's popularity and makes her lose the elections.

Depending on if they can tie it to her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 04:01:59 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 02:50:15 am

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

What are you even referring to now?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 04:16:24 am

Heh, the city of Rotterdam has started a poster campaign across the city to promote free partner choice.
There's posters of women kissing women, a poster of a black person kissing a lightly coloured person, a poster of a muslima kissing a white guy, and one of a muslima wearing a headscarf kissing a jewish man wearing a kippa, all with big letters saying 'in the Netherlands, you choose your partner yourself'.

The initiative stems from the local party 'Leefbaar Rotterdam (a moderate alt right party, very popular in Rotterdam)', in cooperation with women rights groups Femmes for Freedom and Dona Daria.
City Councellor Ronald Schneider personally started the campaign by hanging the first poster in a waiting room of the Central Station.

"Women from certain other cultures and certain other religions more often are restricted in their choice of partner", Schneider says. "We are aware that men also face forced marriage, but we chose to focus our campaing mainly on women, because their problems are more urgent. There often is a double standard. What brother can do, sister cannot".

The action is already facing criticism from Rotterdam's muslim party, Nida.
Their chairman, Nourdin El Ouali says "Haha, a Leefbaar Rotterdam councellor campaigning for diversity? That must be a joke. This is a campaign by an etnocentric white councellor: 'look at us Dutch being free'. Pah! 'Our culture is best culture'. The campaign's hypocricy annoys me. It focusses only on intergration problems of ethnic minorities. I know situations where a dutch girl turned muslim and wanted to marry a muslim, that led to domestic violence from the parents. The Dutch government makes it impossible for a Dutch person to marry someone from Mali, because some absurd bureaucratic rules. This same city council that holds this campaign has destroyed women shelters through budget cuts. The campaign will contribute more to misunderstanding, etnocentrism and stereotyping than it will contribute to promoting free partner choice."


http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/poster-met-zoenende-moslima-en-joodse-jongeman-moet-laten-zien-dit-is-normaal-in-rotterdam~a4496931/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/poster-met-zoenende-moslima-en-joodse-jongeman-moet-laten-zien-dit-is-normaal-in-rotterdam~a4496931/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 04:17:10 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 02:50:15 am

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

I do believe you read too much of the wrong kind of media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 05:00:38 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 04:17:10 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 02:50:15 am

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

I do believe you read too much of the wrong kind of media.

No... I got that here

Quote

I had enough of multiculturalism at the point where my country decided that traping children is completely fine if the victim is Muslim

Which to admit could be a misinterpretation... But to admit it is a less dark version then what is implied here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 05:23:00 am

Who'd you quote that from? LW?
Also, I don't believe it's a typo'd 'trapping', I think it's a typo'd 'raping' and it's referring to the case where refugees who arrive already married to a child bride cannot legally be separated from them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 05:24:15 am

Scriver.

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 05:23:00 am

Who'd you quote that from? LW?
Also, I don't believe it's a typo'd 'trapping', I think it's a typo'd 'raping' and it's referring to the case where refugees who arrive already married to a child bride cannot legally be separated from them.

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 05:31:00 am

Don't think so. Not sure how they plan to enforce that though. I guess you could do a medical exam every week on the children to see if they had sex, but that measure is traumatizing in itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 05:32:10 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 05:24:15 am

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 05:36:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 05:32:10 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 05:24:15 am

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

Interestingly enough you can marry someone who is underage in the UK normally. The same restrictions apply in the "You can't consummate" category.

Quote

Sweden changed its marriage laws to make marriage under the age of 18 illegal, even if the marriage was entered into abroad.

THIS miiight be what Scriver was referring to. Prior to this marriage to someone 15 or older was legal so long as it existed before entering Sweden.

Though Sweden has much stricter marriage laws to 18 only. UK, Canada, and India (And some US states... though some are also stricter) typically have it set to 16 at youngest (India TECHNICALLY allows 15, but it heavily dissuades against it)

---

I don't QUITE understand the concept that Multiculturalism means taking up the butt.

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Does+multiculturalism+mean+taking+it+up+the+butt?&spf=1495708265321 (https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Does+multiculturalism+mean+taking+it+up+the+butt?&spf=1495708265321)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2017, 05:56:57 am

Google doesn't know what to make of your nonsensical question neonivek.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 25, 2017, 06:04:09 am

Quote

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

Remember however, that until agriculture became industrialized, the average age of first bleeding was 16-17. That only started to drop around the late 19th century in industrialized societies. We can assume there was some lagging in nutrition in Middle East nations until after WWII, at which point they started to industrialize too. So the onset of bleeding used to mean something pretty different, e.g on average it was a year or two less than the modern legal adult age.

It's a rule of thumb that would have made more sense before, but sounds crazy now, because the relevant biology is in fact different now. People sticking up for such a law now however on the grounds of "tradition" are talking out their asses basically, because given known science, knocking up 13 year old girls was not the intended purpose of such a law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 06:13:39 am

We went over this some many pages now: Here is a non-paywalled article about the initial apprehension of a pregnant 14 year old girl (http://www.barometern.se/monsteras/fall-kring-gravid-14-aring-anmals/). The father is her "husband" from Syria (their marriage is entirely juridically illegal in Syria as well, by the way, it is just their cultural tradition that allows it. Before the war Syra had an age limit of iirc 16 or 17, but the jurisdiction lost authority with the war), a 21 year old man. They got married when the girl was 12.

This is a paywalled article about the outcome of the case (http://www.barometern.se/kalmar/aisha-14-ar-barnet-som-vantar-barn/). The headline reads: "Pregnant 14 year old back with her husband. 'Not done anything wrong'" The quote-in-the-quote is in reference to the outcome - her apprehension was put down and there is no case of child rape made against the man.

Here is an article in an evening paper quoting from the court decision (http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/14-ar-gammal-gift--och-hoggravid/). The reasons the court decided it was okay for a child to be raped is that she is "mature for her age", "strong-willed", and "firmly rooted in her culture". In other words, that she is a Muslim and from the Middle East.

It also features quotes from Sara Mohammed, an official for the organisation Glöm aldrig Pela och Fadime ("Never forget Pela and Fadime" - it's named after two of the most famous honour murders in Sweden). "The court is not putting the child's best first. The court is putting the adults' will in centrum, and the adults' oppression. If it had been a Swedish girl they wouldn't have done this". "The court should protect the girl but betrays her instead. That she herself says she is happy to be 'home" isn't very strange". "Again they are putting the responsibility on her small shoulders. Of course she has to do as she's told. Of course she says this is what she wants". "Children adapts themselves to their family if they do not get support from outside. Children in Swedish families does it too. If a child in a [drug-] abuse family would want to stay, how would they act then?"

Notable is that the girl herself at one point claimed to in fact only be 12 years old, but later retracted that.

Also, for reference - the above article that I couldn't find was about a worrying trend of "culture" being used as an argument for not following Swedish law, with the case of the 14-year old being one example and the other being one of a man being acquitted on charges of making death threats against a woman on the basis of such threats just being "exaggerated" and "common in his culture".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 25, 2017, 06:23:08 am

Yeah, the tradition is WAY out of date. When you married into a historic agrarian society it was into an extended family, and the other women were responsible for taking care of the girl and teaching her what she needs to know, and they were also the ones making the decision about when they were ready to have kids (which would be around 16-17 given known historical records). Wage labor changed the whole family structure to the nuclear family, where you basically have only dad+mom as the leaders, instead of an extended family with male and female elders moderating behavior of the younger married people in the house). Basically just consider what it's like when your mom and grandma are living in the same house with you and nobody has locks on their door.

So ... it's not really a "tradition" because that is taking obsolete rules completely out of context from what was originally intended and understood.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 06:24:46 am

So the case was about... To charge the man with Rape for things he did Outside Sweden... where it was legal?

Quote

If it had been a Swedish girl they wouldn't have done this

Well yes. Then again I can't even read the article so I don't know when she got pregnant. Though I know Sweden doesn't recognize her marriage, meaning his status would be her guardian.

Question is if Sweden removes children from their parents if they get pregnant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 06:28:11 am

I think the case was about taking the girl away from him rather than charging him for rape.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 25, 2017, 06:28:34 am

It doesn't sound like it was actually legal anywhere. It was an omission due to the collapse of rule of law in Syria.

If someone is going to pull out a 1200 year old religious book to back up modern acts then you could justify just about anything by citing bible verses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 06:30:39 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 25, 2017, 06:28:34 am

It doesn't sound like it was legal. It was an omission due to the collapse of rule of law in Syria.

Ohh I see so the court case was REALLY about how suspicious the marriage was because it was illegal even in the country of origin but that it was complicated due to the situation so it was in a legal grey area. The whole "But think of the children!" was unrelated painting of the situation.

Since if he, as a guardian, was a criminal who had guardianship of her through illegal activities... It would be a fairly justified reason to be separated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 06:51:35 am

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 06:24:46 am

So the case was about... To charge the man with Rape for things he did Outside Sweden... where it was legal?

Quote

If it had been a Swedish girl they wouldn't have done this

Well yes. Then again I can't even read the article so I don't know when she got pregnant. Though I know Sweden doesn't recognize her marriage, meaning his status would be her guardian.

She was raped in Sweden. That's a goddamn given or there wouldn't be a case in Sweden, stop being so intentionally fucking obstinate.

Quote

Question is if Sweden removes children from their parents if they get pregnant.

If a child is living with a 21-one year old man who rapes her of course we fucking removes her from him and his family. What insane pedophilia enabling society wouldn't?

Quote

The whole "But think of the children!" was unrelated painting of the situation.

She is the child that is being raped, Neonivek. To claim that it's "but think of the children"-esque painting to give a damn about children who are being raped is fucking beyond enraging. Have some fucking common sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 06:53:54 am

Jeez, the thing happened in Sweden? It was a rape case? What kind of fucking useless prosecutor was on the case?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 07:02:50 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 06:51:35 am

She is the child that is being raped, Neonivek. To claim that it's "but think of the children"-esque painting to give a damn about children who are being raped is fucking beyond enraging. Have some fucking common sense.

Because

Quote

In Sweden the age of consent for sexual activity is fifteen (15) years

Open and shut if that was the actual case. Meaning that isn't the case. Since Ignorance of the Law isn't an excuse in Sweden nor do they make exceptions for "Aggravated Rape"

In fact, and I might be crazy here, this seems to be a Custody Battle and not a Criminal case. They are trying to paint him as a bad guardian for things that happened outside Sweden, but because it isn't illegal, it means they are trying to paint the guardian as a bad person.

Yet because not only was it legal, but they cannot find any form of abuse he performed other than something that was entirely within his right to do beyond that she is under the age of Swedish consent, nor any evidence that she was traumatized by it. That is why he won the case. In fact Multiculturalism didn't play a part at all (International Treaties and Globalization did). The aspect of "Within the Muslim Faith" means that she understood, as much as possible, what the relationship was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:33:08 am

You are fucking crazy, that's for certain. You're just plainly ignoring everything said to you and making up your own suit to fill in the holes, like multiculturalism having nothing to do with the outcome when it was explicitly stated in the court ruling to be the reason for why it is okay that a child was raped.

Quote from: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 06:53:54 am

Jeez, the thing happened in Sweden? It was a rape case? What kind of fucking useless prosecutor was on the case?

No, it was a child custody case in which the outcome was to let the child stay with her rapist and his family. This is standard praxis I'm Sweden since the immigrant crisis exhausted the government resources available to do with it all - currently there are 140-150 something instances of child brides being acknowledge and allowed to stay with their "husbands" instead of being properly cared for. Rape charges was never even brought against the man, even though under Swedish law they should have been and the evidence is in the indisputable shape of a fetus in her womb and the admission of both parents and his family.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 07:39:53 am

Quote

You are fucking crazy, that's for certain. You're just plainly ignoring everything said to you and making up your own suit to fill in the holes, like multiculturalism having nothing to do with the outcome when it was explicitly stated in the court ruling to be the reason for why it is okay that a child was raped

Ok let me say it a different way. I think you completely misinterpreted the case.

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it. There are too many holes and SEVERAL holes have long since been patched before this case ever saw the courts. Not to mention some of the details make no sense for the type of case it was. (This also sounds like a Supreme Court Case, if it was a Rape Case)

It reminds me when people were talking about how the US forced Churches to provide a transcript of their sermons to make sure they aren't warping anyone's minds or teaching religious doctrine... When in fact the case was actually where they wanted a transcript to make sure the Church wasn't backing a political candidate (Separation of Church and State).

I want a second opinion. I want something that suggests that YES this WAS in fact a Rape Trial, that he raped her in Sweden, and that they allowed it because the girl in question was Muslim.

You could be right, but I am not ready to accept it at this time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 25, 2017, 07:55:40 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:33:08 am

You are fucking crazy, that's for certain. You're just plainly ignoring everything said to you and making up your own suit to fill in the holes, like multiculturalism having nothing to do with the outcome when it was explicitly stated in the court ruling to be the reason for why it is okay that a child was raped.

Imo you shouldn't bother, you're being rused on purpose

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:43:19 am

The Manchester attack turns out to be yet another major intelligence service fuckup.
The perpetrator had been reported to authorities 5 times. His friends had called the police after he had stated that it is okay to be a suicide terrorist. His mosque had warned the police that he was radicalizing. His own familiy called the police, to warn them that the man was a threat. Furthermore intelligence services were aware that he was a member of a Libyan group linked to al Qaida.
Not much was done with this knowledge. The man had been placed on a watchlist, but wasn't being watched closely.
Meanwhile, while raiding some places, police arrested 6 more people, and found more explosives, which have been detonated remotely by the bomb squad. Rumour has it that intelligence agencies are 'very worried' by the explosives found. They fear there will be more attacks soon.

FFS post a source and stop spreading rumours, the amount of damage you cause by spreading unfounded bullshit takes infinitely more effort to correct and more often, will not be corrected at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 07:56:36 am

Quote

Imo you shouldn't bother, you're being rused on purpose

I already posted exactly what my opinion was. I do not intentionally aggravate people, at least if I do it isn't this way.

Quote from: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 07:39:53 am

Quote

You are fucking crazy, that's for certain. You're just plainly ignoring everything said to you and making up your own suit to fill in the holes, like multiculturalism having nothing to do with the outcome when it was explicitly stated in the court ruling to be the reason for why it is okay that a child was raped

Ok let me say it a different way. I think you completely misinterpreted the case.

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it. There are too many holes and SEVERAL holes have long since been patched before this case ever saw the courts. Not to mention some of the details make no sense for the type of case it was. (This also sounds like a Supreme Court Case, if it was a Rape Case)

It reminds me when people were talking about how the US forced Churches to provide a transcript of their sermons to make sure they aren't warping anyone's minds or teaching religious doctrine... When in fact the case was actually where they wanted a transcript to make sure the Church wasn't backing a political candidate (Separation of Church and State).

I want a second opinion. I want something that suggests that YES this WAS in fact a Rape Trial, that he raped her in Sweden, and that they allowed it because the girl in question was Muslim.

You could be right, but I am not ready to accept it at this time.

The only reason I don't let it go is because this isn't the first time Scriver has brought this up in the past. These are obviously very important cases to this discussion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:59:53 am

Quote from: Neonivek link=topic=155469.msg7465119#msg7465119

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it.

It's almost as if there's something outrageous about the whole thing! I wonder what it could be!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 08:01:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:59:53 am

Quote from: Neonivek link=topic=155469.msg7465119#msg7465119

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it.

It's almost as if there's something outrageous about the whole thing! I wonder what it could be!

Do you know why rape charge weren't brought up?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 08:05:19 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 25, 2017, 07:55:40 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:33:08 am

You are fucking crazy, that's for certain. You're just plainly ignoring everything said to you and making up your own suit to fill in the holes, like multiculturalism having nothing to do with the outcome when it was explicitly stated in the court ruling to be the reason for why it is okay that a child was raped.

Imo you shouldn't bother, you're being rused on purpose

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 03:43:19 am

The Manchester attack turns out to be yet another major intelligence service fuckup.
The perpetrator had been reported to authorities 5 times. His friends had called the police after he had stated that it is okay to be a suicide terrorist. His mosque had warned the police that he was radicalizing. His own familiy called the police, to warn them that the man was a threat. Furthermore intelligence services were aware that he was a member of a Libyan group linked to al Qaida.
Not much was done with this knowledge. The man had been placed on a watchlist, but wasn't being watched closely.
Meanwhile, while raiding some places, police arrested 6 more people, and found more explosives, which have been detonated remotely by the bomb squad. Rumour has it that intelligence agencies are 'very worried' by the explosives found. They fear there will be more attacks soon.

FFS post a source and stop spreading rumours, the amount of damage you cause by spreading unfounded bullshit takes infinitely more effort to correct and more often, will not be corrected at all.

Why, the Volkskrant ofcourse
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/politie-manchester-gaat-uit-van-netwerk-rondom-aanslag-zeven-verdachten-opgepakt~a4496943/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/politie-manchester-gaat-uit-van-netwerk-rondom-aanslag-zeven-verdachten-opgepakt~a4496943/)
Also the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/?_sp=3d2a4ad9-fa4d-4e51-805a-217517fcc57d.1495669930587 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/?_sp=3d2a4ad9-fa4d-4e51-805a-217517fcc57d.1495669930587)

bbc mentions it being in many papers as well
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-40038971

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 08:23:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 08:01:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:59:53 am

Quote from: Neonivek link=topic=155469.msg7465119#msg7465119

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it.

It's almost as if there's something outrageous about the whole thing! I wonder what it could be!

Do you know why rape charge weren't brought up?

Nope, but Swedish police is currently falling apart in general, so it might as well have been that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 08:24:19 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 08:23:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 08:01:21 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 07:59:53 am

Quote from: Neonivek link=topic=155469.msg7465119#msg7465119

It doesn't make any sense within Swedish law for it to have gone down the way you put it.

It's almost as if there's something outrageous about the whole thing! I wonder what it could be!

Do you know why rape charge weren't brought up?

Nope, but Swedish police is currently falling apart in general, so it might as well have been that.

How was it a Rape case if there was no Rape Charge?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 08:25:15 am

I think this is devolving into one of those fruitless yes-no debates like I mentioned in the OP

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 08:29:23 am

The fuck are you going on about rape cases for? Read what I write if you want to have a discussion, otherwise I considers through with this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 08:33:54 am

Quote from: scriver on May 25, 2017, 06:51:35 am

She was raped in Sweden. That's a goddamn given or there wouldn't be a case in Sweden, stop being so intentionally fucking obstinate.

I got it from that. Which was a counter for...

Quote

meaning his status would be her guardian

As in the case isn't about that, it is about that counter. Which is why I thought you were constantly referring to it as a rape case and not a custody battle. So my mistake, I misinterpreted what you are saying and I apologize. HOWEVER!

Yeah I am still not buying your interpretation of the case that he is rapping her in Sweden and that is why the Custody battle was started.

There is absolutely nothing, no law, no legal document, no precedent, that could EVER acquit this man. The CLOSEST you could get is if he had plausible deniability.

Which is why I desperately need a second opinion. MAYBE Sweden's Age of Consent laws are just, guidelines or there is a huge loophole and you are 100% right and I am 150% wrong. But There is clear dubiousness in the scenario you written, that doesn't exist in the scenario where the sex occurred outside of Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 08:45:53 am

Meanwhile in France, one of the most popular tv show stars, Cyril Hanoua, has incurred the wrath of his audience and sponsors.
In his show Touche Pas à Mon Poste, he tricked homosexuals into his studio, by placing a contact ad on the Vivastreet website, describing himself as 'very sportive and of large size'.

Instead of having a date, the homosexuals that responded walked unknowingly into a live tv show.
Hanouna proceeded to ask, with a intentionally 'gay' voice, "are you a mason, Matthieu? Do you have a nice big trowel?"
Matthieu answered "I'd like to have you in a nice big concrete mixer".
The audience in the studio couldn't stop laughing, but the media guard dog CSA has so far recieved 30 thousand complaints of shocked viewers.
Dozens of large advesrtising companies have withdrawn their advertisements from the show.

Hanoua thrives on provocation. This isn't the first time he has sparked controversy. Before, there was outrage when he didn't interfere when one of his studio guest kissed the breasts of another studio guest, model Soraya.
On another occasion he pressured his regular guests, tv-show host Mathieu Delormeau, into admitting to being homosexual.
Yet another time he had Mathieu believe that he had accidentally killed someone, filming his reaction with a hidden camera.

Usually these provocations spark a short outburst of controverse, after which the fans call those that complain small-minded justice warriors, and things settle down.

This time however, it doesn't look like it will pass so easily.
According to gay rights organisation Le Refuge, one gay man has been thrown out of his house, after his father discovered on live tv that his son is gay.

Five days after the show, Hanoua publicly apologized, saying the sketch should never have been made. But the damage seems already done.
Large investors like Orange, Bosch, Chanel, Disneyland Paris, Decathlon and Peugeot-CitroënOrange have withdrawn their association with the show.
Last tuesday and wednesday, the show was aired without any commercials. Damage to the broadcasting service: 150 thousand euros per day.
It looks like this is end of career for Hanoua.
Newspaper Le Monde wonders: "Has Hanoua made one joke too many?"

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/-homograp-franse-televisiester-valt-helemaal-verkeerd-adverteerders-trekken-zich-terug~a4496984/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/-homograp-franse-televisiester-valt-helemaal-verkeerd-adverteerders-trekken-zich-terug~a4496984/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2017, 08:47:47 am

Quote

Yet another time he had Mathieu believe that he had accidentally killed someone, filming his reaction with a hidden camera

UMMM!!! O_O

---

Also I am SOOO glad that the controversy is that he is making fun of homosexuals and tricking them out of the closet and not "Homosexuals exist!?! PROPAGANDA!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 08:56:19 am

Oh, small correction. Apparently the gay men did not come to the studio in person, they responded by phone, and their call was on live tv.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 25, 2017, 09:31:15 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 25, 2017, 08:56:19 am

Oh, small correction. Apparently the gay men did not come to the studio in person, they responded by phone, and their call was on live tv.

Yeah, he basically created a fake profile on some gay dating site and then called the gays to make fun of them. They guy that was thrown out of his home was detected when his parents (who were watching the show) recognized his voice.

The guy also has a long history of homophobic jokes and generally seems obsessed with gays, according to some gay associations who counted his jokes at the expense of gays he pretty much cannot get through a show without one.

Also his "apology letter" only came after five days and when over 20 brand had pulled out of his show already, and after the CSA started an investigation. His defense for the first week was more "come on, it's just a joke".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2017, 09:33:17 am

France has shock jocks, who knew! /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 25, 2017, 09:45:53 am

France got mentioned? Time for civil unrest/labor sstrikes/ultraviolent social upheaval!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on May 25, 2017, 02:58:34 pm

It's just a prank, frère!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Necrothurge on May 26, 2017, 01:50:24 am

Corbyn. :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 26, 2017, 06:51:34 am

The Phillipines being an ally of the US probably contributes to that.

What makes you think Corbyn is wrong?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on May 26, 2017, 12:35:14 pm

Personally I think it's obvious that the United States bears most of the responsibility for the emergence of modern international terrorist organizations and the accompanying anti-western ideology, both through direct actions we've taken and the more indirect consequences of letting the CIA and military run wild for 70 years. The extent that Britain shares this blame is more fuzzy; obviously the massive colonial empire didn't help and among the empires Britain was most culpable in setting this shitstorm up in the Muslim world to start with, but I don't think they are necessarily an international target in the same sense as the United States is. The bombings and attacks in the UK seem to be essentially domestic terrorism from having a large muslim population that are easily radicalized in the current climate (helped by the UK's history and support of the US) despite organizations like ISIL trying to take credit, and I think that's what Corbyn was talking about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 26, 2017, 01:17:22 pm

Quote

the massive colonial empire didn't help and among the empires Britain was most culpable in setting this shitstorm up in the Muslim world to start with

Eh, dont forget that France ruled most of North Africa

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 26, 2017, 01:25:05 pm

I'm pretty sure that the main reason is the steady growth towards reactionism and salafism within Islam and the muslimosphere that is the main culprit, and one of the main countries behind that is Saudi-Arabia and it's use of religion as a power tool.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on May 26, 2017, 02:55:43 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on August 22, 2016, 06:45:42 am

The shitshow clusterfuck that is the modern middle east problem of international terrorism is primarily the fault of Charlemagne.

(http://www.galactanet.com/comic/Strip267.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 27, 2017, 10:45:43 am

It was just made public that the vice-mayor of the Dutch city of Emmen spent 3 weeks of last March in protective ultra secret security in the UK, following the advice of the Justice Department, after receiving death threats. Intelligence services and police believe the threats are related to the closing down of the clubhouse of motorcycle club No Surrender in januari of this year, on charges of drug trafficking and physical abuse. The police stress however, that the threats were not made by active members of the motorclub. They believe it's done by sympathisants of the club.

After three weeks the Justice Department concluded that the danger was no longer present, and the vice-mayor was able to return from the UK. They will not comment on why they think the danger is gone.

tl;dr motorclubs and their connection to organized crime are a growing problem in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on May 27, 2017, 02:07:36 pm

So... Motorcycle gangs are 21st century decentraliyed vikings?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 27, 2017, 03:34:18 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on May 27, 2017, 02:07:36 pm

So... Motorcycle gangs are 21st century decentraliyed vikings?

Nah they are anti-vikings. Vikings came from Europe and went to the US. Motorcycle gangs come from the US and went to Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 28, 2017, 03:35:33 pm

So Trump is unreliable. Surprise surprise :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 28, 2017, 03:42:42 pm

The 'Europe must fight/work towards/take control of it's own destiny' bit isn't new though, that rhetoric has been around for while.

And the UK is always going to be European. There's always a chance that the brexit thing will stall and reverse course, or the UK can rejoin at some point.

I'm gonna note that she said that at a campaign event (http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/28/politics/angela-merkel-donald-trump-g7/index.html), so, probably take with a grain of salt since the rhetoric isn't new and she's in the middle of her own campaign.

Title: l
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 05:19:16 am

It's not new, but it certainly is becoming more common with Trump and Brexit. The Economist has a nice short piece on what she meants to different audiences.  (http://www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch/2017/05/what-s-brewing-germany)


Also irrelevant, but I stumbled on this article while looking for something else: "Accused of praying on the beach, he was doing yoga (http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2017/05/26/97001-20170526FILWWW00246-accuse-de-prier-sur-la-plage-il-faisait-du-yoga.php)" A guy in Corsica was doing yoga and some other dude called the police because he thaught he was a muslim praying. For some reason the police came (despite praying not being illegal) and solved the case of the Yogi Terrorist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 29, 2017, 08:23:08 am

The mayor of Paris is trying to ban a festival because apparently, most of the festival is forbidden for white people.
The first edition of the Nyansapo festival, planned to take place during the weekend of 28 to 30 july, is advertised as 'an event with roots in black feminism and activism, on a European scale'.

80% of the festival is reserved for black women only. Next to that, there will be a discussion group about 'Afro-struggles', which will be accessible to black men.
The third part of the festival, about 'postcolonial feminism' will be accessible for anyone.

Mayor Anne Hidalgo has fiercely criticized the festival, and says she has the right to sue the festival for discrimination.
The Paris police say they are investigating if the event "adheres to laws and values of France".

The International Liga aganst Racism and Antisemitism has also sternly criticized the festival. "Rosa Perks would turn over in her grave", they commented.
The organisation of the festival itself says they have become victim of desinformation and 'fake news' spread by extreme right groups, and says it's saddened to see that anti-racism organisations have let themselves be manipulated by those.
They don't deny the festival's segregated program, but in their defense they say that "normally, no one makes a fuss if feminists ban men from their meetings".

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/burgemeester-parijs-wil-festival-verbieden-waar-blanken-verboden-zijn~a4497711/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/burgemeester-parijs-wil-festival-verbieden-waar-blanken-verboden-zijn~a4497711/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 29, 2017, 08:58:29 am

But limiting the people who can attend means that the only people who are going to learn about these issues are black women, and I imagine if the issues already affect black women, they don't need to learn that much about them.

Open it up to everyone who is interested, the more awareness of the issues there are and the more likely they are to be improved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 09:08:18 am

Quote from: hector13 on May 29, 2017, 08:58:29 am

But limiting the people who can attend means that the only people who are going to learn about these issues are black women, and I imagine if the issues already affect black women, they don't need to learn that much about them.

Open it up to everyone who is interested, the more awareness of the issues there are and the more likely they are to be improved.

Well, the classic response is that if you open all meeting to all people, then you end up spending a ton of time going over the basics again and again and again. It is also easier to open up to people who have experienced things similar to what you have. So that are the advantages of closed meeting.

But it also make sense to open up and engage with other people, which is why that festival had both open and closed meetings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 29, 2017, 09:09:33 am

I agree with Hector here, not sure why it should be restricted to African-French.

In other Euro news, the Dutch Parliament and Senate are having trouble getting a coalition set up (http://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-coalition-negotiator-quits-election-netherlands-edith-schippers/), the current negotiator decided to quit after two failed attempts, though she's the outgoing health minister anyway.

As far as I'm aware, the Dutch Parliament is split between 10 and 20 small parties, even the usual big parties have shrunk in size.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 29, 2017, 09:45:25 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

So it is ok for me to hold an event for only white people?

Man this sounds familiar....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 10:37:05 am

Quote from: Antioch on May 29, 2017, 09:45:25 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

So it is ok for me to hold an event for only white people?

Man this sounds familiar....

Well, I have trouble picturing what kind of issue would need a white-only group, but stuff like men-only support groups are a thing for exemple. Basically, it's okay if there is a reason, I'd be angry if they decided to ban non-black women from a music festival or something but here it makes sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 29, 2017, 11:37:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

Being for one group does is not the same as banning all other. I don't think any cancer support groups anywhere bans healthy people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 11:45:14 am

I'm fairly certain they do, from some of their meetings at least. If you want another exemple, AA certainly restrict itself to people who have/had drinking issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 29, 2017, 11:48:31 am

I'm sure they'd include cancer survivors, which would be in the 'healthy people' group, or at least 'healthy at this time'.

If something is aimed at a specialty or is a narrow focus, then yeah, it'd make sense, but when race (especially if it's a minority) comes into it, it has a tendency to become politically hot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 12:02:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 29, 2017, 11:48:31 am

I'm sure they'd include cancer survivors, which would be in the 'healthy people' group, or at least 'healthy at this time'.

If something is aimed at a specialty or is a narrow focus, then yeah, it'd make sense, but when race (especially if it's a minority) comes into it, it has a tendency to become politically hot.

Well, yeah. Which is a bit ridiculous, especially when you considers that the overlap between people who might be interested in participating in a black-led round table on Afrofeminism and people who are offended at this "scandal" is pretty much nil. I mean, I think this particular group at this particular time went a tad too far in it's segregation but not hugely so.

In more interesting news. Macron roasted RT and Sputnik News during the joint press conference with Putin. (http://www.politico.eu/article/macron-and-putin-agree-on-restart-of-ukraine-talks/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 29, 2017, 01:06:21 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 29, 2017, 11:37:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

Being for one group does is not the same as banning all other. I don't think any cancer support groups anywhere bans healthy people.

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 11:45:14 am

I'm fairly certain they do, from some of their meetings at least. If you want another exemple, AA certainly restrict itself to people who have/had drinking issues.

This chick Marla Singer did not have testicular cancer. She was a liar. She had no diseases at all. I had seen her at Free and Clear, my blood parasite group Thursdays. Then at Hope, my bi-monthly sickle cell circle. And again at Seize the Day, my tuberculous Friday night. Marla... the big tourist. Her lie reflected my lie. Suddenly, I felt nothing. I couldn't cry, so once again I couldn't sleep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 29, 2017, 01:26:24 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 29, 2017, 01:06:21 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 29, 2017, 11:37:41 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 08:51:03 am

This is ridiculous, I mean, it's a bunch of workshops and discussion groups on issues affecting black women. Complaining they ban non-black women is like complaining a cancer support group ban healthy people.

Being for one group does is not the same as banning all other. I don't think any cancer support groups anywhere bans healthy people.

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 11:45:14 am

I'm fairly certain they do, from some of their meetings at least. If you want another exemple, AA certainly restrict itself to people who have/had drinking issues.

This chick Marla Singer did not have testicular cancer. She was a liar. She had no diseases at all. I had seen her at Free and Clear, my blood parasite group Thursdays. Then at Hope, my bi-monthly sickle cell circle. And again at Seize the Day, my tuberculous Friday night. Marla... the big tourist. Her lie reflected my lie. Suddenly, I felt nothing. I couldn't cry, so once again I couldn't sleep.

What if you get to go to blood parasites and tuberculosis and I get sickle cell and black feminism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 30, 2017, 06:51:34 am

Today, we will be having a talk on the place of White People in Africa. Black people aren't allowed to attend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 30, 2017, 08:38:27 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 29, 2017, 12:02:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 29, 2017, 11:48:31 am

I'm sure they'd include cancer survivors, which would be in the 'healthy people' group, or at least 'healthy at this time'.

If something is aimed at a specialty or is a narrow focus, then yeah, it'd make sense, but when race (especially if it's a minority) comes into it, it has a tendency to become politically hot.

Well, yeah. Which is a bit ridiculous, especially when you considers that the overlap between people who might be interested in participating in a black-led round table on Afrofeminism and people who are offended at this "scandal" is pretty much nil. I mean, I think this particular group at this particular time went a tad too far in it's segregation but not hugely so.

In more interesting news. Macron roasted RT and Sputnik News during the joint press conference with Putin. (http://www.politico.eu/article/macron-and-putin-agree-on-restart-of-ukraine-talks/)

Macron looks less bad every day. It's about time someone said that in Putin's face. I just hope he doesn't push his fondness for the open market too far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 30, 2017, 09:09:14 am

uhoh, a Syrian refugee has been arrested over suspicions of plotting a suicide attack. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40096753) While I know it's just one guy in thousands of refugees/asylum-seekers, seems like this will reignite the whole immigration debate over there in Europe.

No doubt Trump is going to make note of it, however, the 'muslim ban' thing is slowly working it's way through the courts and he wants to take it all the way to the top court, the Supreme Court of the US. While he has been letting the legal system do it's thing (despite issuing protests), I'm a bit concerned on what he might do if it fails in the SCOTUS, mainly because it's kind of an unknown and because he's mercurial, as some put it.

On a lighter note, a bit of sillyness with the Nordic leaders trolling Trump on the orb photo (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/335591-nordic-leaders-troll-trump-orb-photo).

Interesting thing from Ireland: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/europe/leo-varadkar-ireland-prime-minister-bid/index.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 02, 2017, 04:53:39 pm

Meanwhile in Germany, the famous Rock am Ring festival has been shut down and evacuated on it's opening day, because possible terrorist threat. 90 thousand people have evacuated surprisingly calm and orderly.
It is unsure if the rest of the festival, which is supposed to last the whole weekend, can continue. Rammstein fans are sad. Rammstein was one of the main opening acts which has now been cancelled.
The organisation has announced that tomorrow at 11am local time, there will be an announcement on whether it is decided that the show must go on or not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40140968

EDIT: Dang, I wonder where they are going to accomodate 90k people for the night.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 02, 2017, 05:27:55 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 02, 2017, 04:53:39 pm

Meanwhile in Germany, the famous Rock am Ring festival has been shut down and evacuated on it's opening day, because possible terrorist threat. 90 thousand people have evacuated surprisingly calm and orderly.
It is unsure if the rest of the festival, which is supposed to last the whole weekend, can continue. Rammstein fans are sad. Rammstein was one of the main opening acts which has now been cancelled.
The organisation has announced that tomorrow at 11am local time, there will be an announcement on whether it is decided that the show must go on or not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40140968

EDIT: Dang, I wonder where they are going to accomodate 90k people for the night.

It still surprises me that IS doesn't just report fake terrorist attacks everywhere, it would cause literally millions of euros in damage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 04, 2017, 04:46:33 am

In Turin, Italy, a thousand people were injured when a mass panic broke out at the St. Carlo Square, where football fans had gathered to watch the Champions Leageu finals. According to Italian media, 8 people are in critical condition, including a small child. Most people got off with scratches and bruises from falling and being trampled.

The panic broke out when a bang was heard, according to the Turin police chief.
Press agency ANSA reports it was the sound of a parking garage's stairwell's railing collapsing below the square.
People started running en masse and trampling each other.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/duizend-gewonden-door-paniek-tijdens-vertoning-champions-league-finale-in-turijn~a4498979/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/duizend-gewonden-door-paniek-tijdens-vertoning-champions-league-finale-in-turijn~a4498979/)
https://youtu.be/OE--Sv5r8VE (https://youtu.be/OE--Sv5r8VE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 04, 2017, 04:20:00 pm

The Dutch province of Utrecht is worried there might be a serial child killer on the loose. Yesterday the body of a 14 year old girl was found. Today another body was found within 20 kilometers, after an entire village of volunteers did a perimeter search when another 14 year old girl went missing. Even though the body was found this morning, police cannot confirm yet if it is the missing girl. Parents in the area are terrified, and keeping their children indoors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2017, 04:41:23 pm

HOLY!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 04, 2017, 05:26:17 pm

Probably just a roaming Belgian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 04, 2017, 05:29:46 pm

Police just confirmed, after extensive examination and research, that the body found is indeed that of the missing 14 year old girl. I believe I don't want to know what was done to the body that it took forensics more than 12h to identify her. She had been missing since past thursday, when she didn't arrive at a homework meetup with her school friend.
I hope they catch the bastard / bastards fast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 04, 2017, 07:54:14 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 04, 2017, 05:29:46 pm

Police just confirmed, after extensive examination and research, that the body found is indeed that of the missing 14 year old girl. I believe I don't want to know what was done to the body that it took forensics more than 12h to identify her. She had been missing since past thursday, when she didn't arrive at a homework meetup with her school friend.
I hope they catch the bastard / bastards fast.

Decomposition could be a factor.

But yeah, serial killers of any stripe are terrible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 07, 2017, 09:31:33 am

After Turkey refused German ministers to enter Turkey when they tried visiting German NATO soldiers stationed there, Germany tried to reason with Turkey at the NATO conference, but to no avail.

In response, Germany has now ordered all German forces stationed at NATO bases in Turkey to return home, to be redeployed to less unfriendly NATO friends.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 07, 2017, 12:32:59 pm

Terrorist hammer attack in France. If French society had had guns, someone could have shot the hammer dude. When oh when will Europe drop these foolish anti-gun laws?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 07, 2017, 12:42:31 pm

Quote from: Reelya on June 07, 2017, 12:32:59 pm

Terrorist hammer attack in France. If French society had had guns, someone could have shot the hammer dude. When oh when will Europe drop these foolish anti-gun laws?

The cop shot the guy. Though yes, I get what you're getting at vs guns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 07, 2017, 12:48:27 pm

Quote from: Reelya on June 07, 2017, 12:32:59 pm

Terrorist hammer attack in France. If French society had had guns, someone could have shot the hammer dude. When oh when will Europe drop these foolish anti-gun laws?

Czech Republic and Estonia do allow concealed carry, for individuals with a license.

I dont think armed civilians will make them think twice about their attacks, they're fighting a war after all and will become martyrs, but having guns around could help every now and then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 07, 2017, 01:26:26 pm

Well, the hammer guy attacked armed cops. If he wanted to avoid guns, he wouldn't target cops with guns.

But well, Reelya was being sarcastic given all we know about his views.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 07, 2017, 02:10:00 pm

Stop! Hammertime

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 07, 2017, 03:56:19 pm

Quote from: Reelya on June 07, 2017, 12:32:59 pm

Terrorist hammer attack in France. If French society had had guns, someone could have shot the hammer dude. When oh when will Europe drop these foolish anti-gun laws?

Yes I don't really hear those gun lobby people after every terrorist attack that is carried out with knifes. I mean they are terrorists and terrorists always get guns.

Except for some reason more than half don't.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 07, 2017, 04:10:41 pm

The most common denominator in the recent attacks are pedestrians. If pedestrians had been banned, and everyone had carried a car, we would have seen much less casualties

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on June 07, 2017, 10:25:22 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/06/czech-government-tells-its-citizens-how-to-fight-terrorists-shoot-them-yourselves/?utm_term=.a234d84b0d0b (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/06/czech-government-tells-its-citizens-how-to-fight-terrorists-shoot-them-yourselves/?utm_term=.a234d84b0d0b)

Quote

In the wake of the 2015 terror attacks in Paris, France pushed the European Union to enact even tougher policies. The European Commission's initial proposal called for a complete ban on the sale of weapons like Kalashnikovs or AR-15s that are intended primarily for military use. Ammunition magazines would be limited to 20 rounds or less.

The Czech Republic came out hard against the directive.

. . .
After months of contentious negotiations, the EU passed a compromise last month; the Council of Ministers will confirm the measure this spring. All member states will have 15 months to comply with the new gun restrictions.

National sovereignty in the European Union: "fuck you in 15 months instead of immediately"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on June 08, 2017, 12:13:10 am

Tangential: Isn't it officially "Czechia" now? Or did I misunderstand that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 08, 2017, 12:19:53 am

Quote from: misko27 on June 08, 2017, 12:13:10 am

Tangential: Isn't it officially "Czechia" now? Or did I misunderstand that?

I read a couple months back (may have been last year actually, or before) that they tried to do that, but it never caught on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 08, 2017, 12:35:28 am

Quote from: Strife26 on June 07, 2017, 10:25:22 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/06/czech-government-tells-its-citizens-how-to-fight-terrorists-shoot-them-yourselves/?utm_term=.a234d84b0d0b (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/06/czech-government-tells-its-citizens-how-to-fight-terrorists-shoot-them-yourselves/?utm_term=.a234d84b0d0b)

Quote

In the wake of the 2015 terror attacks in Paris, France pushed the European Union to enact even tougher policies. The European Commission's initial proposal called for a complete ban on the sale of weapons like Kalashnikovs or AR-15s that are intended primarily for military use. Ammunition magazines would be limited to 20 rounds or less.

The Czech Republic came out hard against the directive.

. . .
After months of contentious negotiations, the EU passed a compromise last month; the Council of Ministers will confirm the measure this spring. All member states will have 15 months to comply with the new gun restrictions.

National sovereignty in the European Union: "fuck you in 15 months instead of immediately"

They were to ban sales of and confiscate ALL semi autos, not just high capacity "military" rifles. They also tried to make all gun permits temporary(max 5 years), make magazines also need permits(currently they're basically scrapmetal and dont even have serial numbers) and even demand serial numbers and other traceable ids for every single individual cartridge sold.

Luckily none of that madness got through and the new directive is actually in general more loose than the one before, and actually allows full autos and even bazookas and such on the basis of "sports" and for reservists also.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 08, 2017, 12:38:35 am

Who the heck uses bazookas for sport?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 08, 2017, 01:47:31 am

Maybe they realised it's pointless to outlaw guns when all criminals use is illegal guns from the Balkan black market.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 08, 2017, 01:55:04 am

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 01:47:31 am

Maybe they realised it's pointless to outlaw guns when all criminals use is illegal guns from the Balkan black market.

They didnt, the parliament just refused their proposals and the negotiated "compromise" included none of them. EU/Commission does have at least two research projects on illegal guns and their trafficing and IIRC they both think that the largest sources of new illegal guns are poorly deactivated guns being reactivated way or another and imports from outside the Schengen area. But out of the already existing pool of illegal guns by far the most are from former Warsaw Pact and former Yugoslavia, yeah.

Only thing that will become stricter is that the combination of over 10 round magazine and semi auto rifle will be a class higher and thus illegal for non-sports, non-reservists. So basically just hunters. Also deactivation rules will be enforced across the Union so Slovakia's piss poor standards that allow anyone with basic tools to reactivate their guns will be fixed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 08, 2017, 03:50:33 am

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 01:47:31 am

Maybe they realised it's pointless to outlaw guns when all criminals use is illegal guns from the Balkan black market.

But for some reason terrorists go for knifes and hammers lately.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 08, 2017, 04:19:27 am

Quote from: Antioch on June 08, 2017, 03:50:33 am

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 01:47:31 am

Maybe they realised it's pointless to outlaw guns when all criminals use is illegal guns from the Balkan black market.

But for some reason terrorists go for knifes and hammers lately.....

Thats very, very likely just the combination of UK's very strict gun laws and associated ridiculous bureucracy and paper work, as well as cash, required to acquire a gun legally as well as the thing that most Jihadists seem to be idiots.

Theres multiple countries within EU that basically allow purchase of some kind of firearms from a hardware store with just an ID or an easy to acquire gun permit/license(and so far almost all terrorists have been 2nd gen immigrants), but those types of guns are yet to be used in terror attacks. Break action shotguns/rifles and rimfires mainly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 07:34:32 am

The European parliament and the European commission are at each others throats over the road toll laws in Germany.
While the EU parliament had voted againt these, the EU commission now sides with Germany, and will allow Germany to start asking toll fares for using the Autobahn on the first of january 2019.

The issue the EU parliament had with the law, is that Germany compensates it's own citizens for the tolls. In practice that means, that only foreigners will pay the tolls. According to the EU parliament, this is unlawful discrimination, which is why they voted against earlier.

The EU parliament has now demanded that the EU commission explains itself and come with a statement as to why they allow Germany to proceed with the new law.
Austria has made it known that they will sue Germany in court if the law takes effect.

The Dutch parliament passed a bill with a vast majority last tuesday, that orders the government to take every possible action to stop the new German law, and to join Austria in the lawsuit. The Dutch demissionary government however says it wants to wait and hear what the EU commission has to say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 08, 2017, 07:48:13 am

And the damn toll was just a populist vote grab by our dear Bavarian conservatives in the first place. Germany doesn't even really want it - especially the border regions, which will be the most affected.

Really we should just be getting rid of tolls EU-wide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 07:53:02 am

Quote from: Helgoland on June 08, 2017, 07:48:13 am

And the damn toll was just a populist vote grab by our dear Bavarian conservatives in the first place. Germany doesn't even really want it - especially the border regions, which will be the most affected.

Really we should just be getting rid of tolls EU-wide.

Indeed the toll laws will hurt the border region business in Germany badly. Many people living in the border region of the Netherlands for example now cross the border to get petrol in Germany, because it's a few cents cheaper per liter. They will stop doing that once the toll laws are passed, because it will no longer be cheaper to refuel in Germany. Border petrol stations in Germany are expected to go bankrupt over it, for the border traffic makes up such a significant part of their income, and at the same time the German treasury will suffer for the loss of excise tax.

Some of the larger European transport companies have also already said they will rerout their cargo trucks to avoid Germany if the toll laws are passed (although this is probably a minor effect, since a lot of transport really cannot avoid Germany without making 1000km detours)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 08, 2017, 08:03:29 am

Sounds like Europe will only benefit from the new German toll then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 08, 2017, 08:09:14 am

What you say???? (https://youtu.be/CtOEig1l8SA)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 08:14:17 am

Today a 14-year old boy that was arrested on suspicion of killing one of the two 14 year old girls that were found relatively close to each other last week in the Netherlands, has just confessed after 4 days of interrogation that he raped and killed the girl.

For the other murder, another boy, aged 16 has been arrested on suspicion of involvement in her death.

So apparently it's not a serial killed after all. Equally horrible though, kids raping and killing kids.
Sad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 08, 2017, 09:06:08 am

4 days of interrogations on a 14-years old? Jeez.

Re: toll, I'm not against them on principle. It kinda make sense ot charge users for road use.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 08, 2017, 09:27:58 am

We already do that. It's called gasoline tax.

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 08:03:29 am

Sounds like Europe will only benefit from the new German toll then.

Please, do indulge me: How exactly are decreased mobility in border areas and bankrupt petrol stations beneficial to Europe? I'd be very interested to understand why that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 08, 2017, 09:31:37 am

No, no, bankrupt German gas stations. Dutch gas stations will do just fine, and the Dutch state will get more tax revenue too. It's a win-win situation!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 08, 2017, 09:41:14 am

But that also crimps CO2 emissions, so tolls are annoying but they're not all bad in terms of outcomes.

However they should make it a clear system and have it that electric vehicles get a toll exemption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 10:29:01 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 08, 2017, 09:06:08 am

4 days of interrogations on a 14-years old? Jeez.

Quite sure that would not have been uninterrupted 4 days. Just that he was arrested 4 days ago and has been interrogated every day. Don't know exactly what the law says on it, but I don't think that's more than 2 or 4h per day, with parents or child counselor present, considering his age.

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 09:31:37 am

No, no, bankrupt German gas stations. Dutch gas stations will do just fine, and the Dutch state will get more tax revenue too. It's a win-win situation!

The German treasury might lose on the excise in border regions, but it will gain much more from tolls on freight traffic. Same goes the other way around. Dutch border petrol stations will benefit, but Dutch economy will suffer because transport costs for Dutch companies go up.

The troll toll video was kind of spot on. Germany knows that nearly all of Europe's freight traffic passes through Germany, because there is not other route. It's like a troll standing on the only bridge across a river and demanding troll toll indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 08, 2017, 10:44:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 10:29:01 am

The troll toll video was kind of spot on. Germany knows that nearly all of Europe's freight traffic passes through Germany, because there is not other route. It's like a troll standing on the only bridge across a river and demanding troll toll indeed.

Unless you want to take a thousand mile detour to go around Germany and go through Switzerland, Italy, and Austria. It's certainly more than a thousand miles, but same point that it's a huge detour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2017, 10:46:55 am

That, plus the Austrian / Italian / Swiss infrastructure can't cope with a significant increase in freight volume. It would turn the three countries into a massive traffic jam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on June 08, 2017, 01:49:03 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on June 08, 2017, 09:27:58 am

We already do that. It's called gasoline tax.

Quote from: scriver on June 08, 2017, 08:03:29 am

Sounds like Europe will only benefit from the new German toll then.

Please, do indulge me: How exactly are decreased mobility in border areas and bankrupt petrol stations beneficial to Europe? I'd be very interested to understand why that is.

Easy, the faster the EU collapses in on itself like a house of rotten wood, the quicker all the countries trapped inside can struggle their way out of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2017, 05:28:09 am

Quote from: Strife26 on June 08, 2017, 01:49:03 pm

Easy, the faster the EU collapses in on itself like a house of rotten wood, the quicker all the countries trapped inside can struggle their way out of it.

The Byzantines didn't collapse in a day, which means that the Greeks will suffer for another thousand years

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2017, 05:55:28 pm

Catalonia is going to hold another referendum for independence in october. Spanish parliament has already declared it illegal (again)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 09, 2017, 06:00:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2017, 05:55:28 pm

Catalonia is going to hold another referendum for independence in october. Spanish parliament has already declared it illegal (again)

Didn't I mention that some weeks/few months ago?

I wonder what will happen if the referendum goes through, ends up in a yes for independence, and Spain doesn't recognize the independence? Any sort of attempt at intervention, military or otherwise, is going to be met with... problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on June 09, 2017, 08:45:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 09, 2017, 05:28:09 am

Quote from: Strife26 on June 08, 2017, 01:49:03 pm

Easy, the faster the EU collapses in on itself like a house of rotten wood, the quicker all the countries trapped inside can struggle their way out of it.

The Byzantines didn't collapse in a day, which means that the Greeks will suffer for another thousand years

I think likening it to the Holy Roman Empire would be more entertaining, with the EU eventually being just Cyprus, or possibly extending to a country explicitly not in Europe before everyone flees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 09, 2017, 08:46:57 pm

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Veylon on June 09, 2017, 11:32:30 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on June 09, 2017, 08:45:02 pm

I think likening it to the Holy Roman Empire would be more entertaining, with the EU eventually being just Cyprus, or possibly extending to a country explicitly not in Europe before everyone flees.

It could happen. EU's old rival EFTA is still floating around, after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2017, 02:54:05 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2017, 05:55:28 pm

Catalonia is going to hold another referendum for independence in october. Spanish parliament has already declared it illegal (again)

That seems like a good way to empower the independence voters. Hard to lose the message of how put down upon you are if the government is trying to ban your local political authority.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on June 10, 2017, 10:45:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 09, 2017, 08:46:57 pm

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

EU DESIGNATES LATIN AS OFFICIAL CONTINENTAL LANGUAGE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 10, 2017, 01:03:18 pm

That would be so awesome.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 10, 2017, 01:15:09 pm

I'd be in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 10, 2017, 04:01:04 pm

An automobile drove into pedestrians at the Central Station of Amsterdam, wounding 8 people, of whom 2 critically.
The driver has been taken into police custody. Police say it does not look like there's foul play or terrorism here, they think the man became unwell behind the steering wheel.
Police had just told him to leave earlier, as he had parked his car in a spot where parking was not allowed. Shortly afterwards the man rammed into a wall after hitting 8 people.
Kinda looks like the man became unwell, pulled over safely, then was forced on the road again by police and ran over people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on June 10, 2017, 04:14:46 pm

Welp, that's on all of their consciousnesses now forever.

Maybe standardize responses to a situation? First check if they need help & escalate from there? I get that usually this is how you get ambushed but- fick this world needs better technology in order to deal with all these uncertainties. Heisenberg's principle says we just need one not all of these.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 10, 2017, 04:16:04 pm

in other news, the incident in Eindhoven yesterday must have really been a threat. Evening news reports that not just the Eindhoven police force was deployed to the city center, even the police forces from other cities, even from other provinces were all deployed to Eindhoven.

There's going to be two more of the same concerts today and tomorrow. Police didn't feel the need to cancel them. Police presence is overwhelming still however.
Had a few helicopters fly over today as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 10, 2017, 04:17:56 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on June 10, 2017, 04:14:46 pm

I get that usually this is how you get ambushed

That's not a concern here. We have no second amendment. Police being ambushed at a vehicle search or whatever just does not happen here. They didn't escalate, they just told the man that he wasn't allowed to park there. Don't know if they can be blamed for not spotting the guy was unwell. If it was a tia or somesuch, it's not always obvious for a non medical professional.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 10, 2017, 04:24:38 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on June 10, 2017, 04:14:46 pm

Welp, that's on all of their consciousnesses now forever.

Maybe standardize responses to a situation? First check if they need help & escalate from there? I get that usually this is how you get ambushed but- fick this world needs better technology in order to deal with all these uncertainties. Heisenberg's principle says we just need one not all of these.

Heisenberg's Principle only applies to Quantum Mechanics, not humans and Murphy's Law.

If anything could have been done to prevent that, I'm sure the local police will check that out. Probably not.

Quote from: martinuzz on June 10, 2017, 04:17:56 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on June 10, 2017, 04:14:46 pm

I get that usually this is how you get ambushed

That's not a concern here. We have no second amendment. Police being ambushed at a vehicle search or whatever just does not happen here. They didn't escalate, they just told the man that he wasn't allowed to park there. Don't know if they can be blamed for not spotting the guy was unwell. If it was a tia or somesuch, it's not always obvious for a non medical professional.

Knives, illegal weapons maybe...

Not sure what a Tia model car has to do with anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 10, 2017, 04:26:44 pm

A tia is not a car, it's a temporary clotting of a blood vessel in the brain. (Transient Ischemic Attack).

I get that for US cops, getting ambushed at vehicle checks is a daily reality and ever present fear. Over here, it maybe happens once a year, and then it's big national news and outrage. A policeman over here has more chance of getting killed in a traffic accident on the way to his job than he has chance of getting killed in the line of duty. (Well at least for a traffic cop. I suppose armed bank robbery teams and swat teams for raids have a slightly higher chance of injury, but still nowhere near the 'daily reality' level of the US)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2017, 05:03:47 am

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2017, 05:34:25 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2017, 05:03:47 am

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

I assume they're perpetrated by trolls?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 05:46:16 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2017, 05:03:47 am

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

Somehow I doubt that Swedish cops get thrown rocks at by someone who seems to be doing badly in his car. Sounds more like hooligans throwing stuff at passing cops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2017, 05:51:44 am

Yeah I don't think people doing badly in their cars is the ones who ambush people in the US either.

And of course they're hooligans. I don't know why'd you assume they weren't from what I said.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 05:55:58 am

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 05:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2017, 05:51:44 am

Yeah I don't think people doing badly in their cars is the ones who ambush people in the US either.

And of course they're hooligans. I don't know why'd you assume they weren't from what I said.

I dunno, that line of discussion was started by inteusino saying:

Quote

First check if they need help & escalate from there? I get that usually this is how you get ambushed but- fick this world needs better technology in order to deal with all these uncertainties.

Which led to martinuzz saying that cops getting shot by people that look like the need help isn't an issue in the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2017, 06:47:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 05:55:58 am

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

Surely they can hold him indefinitely in a psychiatric facility, ala Brevik?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 06:52:24 am

Nope, one year max.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 06:53:31 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2017, 06:47:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 05:55:58 am

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

Surely they can hold him indefinitely in a psychiatric facility, ala Brevik?

Yeah, I can understand the logic of "He's only 14, we can reform him". I hope the one year doesn't mean "lock him up one year then release him in nature" and that he'll have some kind of therapy/parole thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 06:59:38 am

Well ofcourse, once he's released, he'll be monitored by CPS and psychiatric services very closely. He won't be just released into nature, as you put it.
Once he turns 18 though, chances are that will all end. Because his criminal record gets deleted at that point, clean slate and all. He'll get civil rights to deny further treatment, because they're based off a conviction that can no longer be legally used as an argument.

EDIT: the argument is not "he's just 14, we can reform him" though. That's a misconception. The argument is that a child, whose brain, most notably the pre-frontal cortex, has not developed to a point yet where the individual is capable of mature impulse control, nor can fully oversee the consequences of their actions, cannot be held responsible for the full capacity of their actions.
So the argument for having juvenile law separated from adult law is not one of hope of reform, it's purely one of technical accountability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2017, 07:22:16 am

That strikes me as grossly irresponsible. Most people with unfinished brains do not commit rape and overkill murder. It is willful ignorance to release him based on age without a confident psychiatric analysis suggesting he's actually stable. There exists no material difference in an atrocity committed by an adolescent and one committed by an adult.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 07:24:37 am

It isn't said that he can't be put back in psych ward after being released. He just can't be convicted to it for this crime. If after his release, child protective services, or his psychiatrist deem him a threat to society, they can ask a judge to put him back in psych ward again (as they can do to any child, regardless of prior convictions).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 07:28:23 am

But only until he's 18?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2017, 07:30:04 am

I mistake you two because your avatars look similar

Anyway, dealing with juvenile delimquents is a problem everywhere. Its hard to draw the line between too mild and too harsh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 07:33:29 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 07:28:23 am

But only until he's 18?

Well, any person, regardless of age, can be forcibly admitted, if a psychiatric evaluation deems the person a threat to himself or others. At 18 though, his criminal record is deleted.

So imagine, when he is 17, and his psychiatrists asks a judge to have him admitted to a psych ward, he can include the argument 'he raped and killed a girl when he was 14' in the court hearing that will decide if he needs to be admitted.

But when he's 18, it's illegal to use that argument any longer, and any request for admission will need to be weighed only against his behaviour since he turned 18.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2017, 07:37:51 am

That doesnt make much sense.  Arguably psych admission is a medical issue, not a penal one, and that record ought to stay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 07:44:55 am

It's a legally complex issue. Forced admission in a closed institution is a restriction on the Freedom of Movement, and thus needs to be weighed by a judge.
The decision to take things to court though is made by the medical professional, and I am sure the medical professional will use the client's pre-18 history in his decision making process. The judge that needs to rule over it though, is not allowed to take pre-18 convictions into account, yet he only needs to weigh the advice of a medical professional against the civil rights of the client. It does make sense. The pre-18 history is still present, just not in the court, but only in the realisation of the medical professional's advise.

So what does it mean in practice. This kid will probably see closed institutions, or half open institutions for quite a bit longer than 1 year. However, if he can convince psychiatrists that he is unlikely to repeat his behaviour within the timeframe of his sentencing, yes, it is technically possible that he will indeed do no longer than 1 year.
The 'retribution' aspect of crime and punishment is near absent in juvenile law, because Child Rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on June 11, 2017, 08:15:50 am

My point still stands that we need improved technology to better evaluate & heal people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on June 11, 2017, 08:26:19 am

Let him be branded for life by what he has done; let it be part of who he is. Let it stain his soul from this day that is until the day that he enters his grave. After a deed such as this, no man deserve to live a life that is not shadowed by it.

There is a lot of merit to the idea that a former criminal should be allowed a fresh start. That, however, is an agreement with limits. After a certain threshold, one does not deserve such a favour. If someone is cruel, heartless and inhuman enough to carry out the deed, then they ought to bear the shame for the rest of their time on Earth. It is not impossible that such people reform, and might then be treated accordingly. However, being given the gift of freedom from one's past without a comparable reform in character preceeding it is simply not right.

Further, it must be noted that the treatment of his case is a horrific and quite revolting insult upon the character on the average fourteen-year-old.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 09:03:12 am

What is the point of making his entire life crap though, if he can be reformed?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on June 11, 2017, 09:24:33 am

Because a crime of particular cruelty is not something one ought to be allowed and encouraged to live without, as if it has never happened. It must carry a severe cost.

If he were a burglar or robber, or perhaps a murdered by misadventure, as it were (let us say that he botched a robbery and shot down a petrol station clerk), it should be judged differently, and his right to live free of his crimes one day is greatly increased. But his crime is one of deliberate cruelty, seemingly for its own sake, and thus fundamentally different.
As for reform, that is, of course, the ideal solution. If he is willing to reform, and more to the point, go through the difficult path to do so, then it is a different matter. However, it depends on the subject's true willingness to reform, and to burden what they have done and make as good as they can to mend it. It is not something that should simply be gifted to him unconditionally.

Further, it must be noted that the person that carries the greatest responsibility for thus making his own life into crap is himself.

That all said, I do understand your point. And where he a failed burglar or robber, there would be no point, not when compared to the gain of reform.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2017, 09:34:09 am

I'm not saying his youth should not be taken into consideration, but most of us here have experienced what it's like to be 14 and it is clear to me that he cannot be cleared of even a majority of responsibility for this rape and murder because of youth. His victim's punishment is permanent, and while that doesn't mean we should enact eye for an eye, this is an absurd reduction that is based not upon justice but the overly permissive administrative rules of the Netherlands.

Something like Brevik getting a stupid low sentence for mass murder is acceptable enough because he also can be retained indefinitely under psychiatric concerns - justice in this sense has been badly divided between the criminal justice system and psychiatric health, but it still functionally exists.

This, however, is as I said a willful ignorance. Not allowing judges to see serious crimes committed in youth is not an elimination of bias. Bias against a known murderer is appropriate. I could see an argument for putting record limitations on lots of things, even for adults a system that sunsets non-felonies if the individual stays clean long enough would be a decent idea. Murder is not on that list. Rape is not on that list.

There is no reason, no reason whatsoever, that the retributive aspect of law should be ignored in this case. For most crimes, maybe even almost all crimes, a 14 year old can find some ground to stand on being an undeveloped idiot, but not this one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2017, 11:42:19 am

Well, I'm 100% against the retributive aspect of justice myself. In this case, I'm more concerned that the guy could be let loose while still dangerous. In that aspect, saying a judge couldn't take into account his crime in a psych case 4 years from now seems indeed absurd.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 11, 2017, 12:03:06 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on June 11, 2017, 08:26:19 am

After a deed such as this, no man deserve to live a life that is not shadowed by it.

He's not a man, he's 14.


Sheb: As martinuzz wrote above, what he did will factor into future evaluations - just not as part of his criminal record, but as part of his medical one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2017, 03:04:20 pm

Macrons En Marche! party is about to go from 0 to over 400 members of Parliament (http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/11/europe/french-parliament-election-macron/index.html).

If only it were that easy for third parties to get started in the US. Obviously the Democrats and Republicans have far larger party machines, but still, with the amount of dissatisfaction in the US with both parties, you'd think that third parties would be blossoming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 11, 2017, 04:24:59 pm

UK: 37% votes for Conservatives giving 51% of the seats in parliament
France: 32% votes for En Marche! giving at least 71% of the seats

I hope anyone lambasting the UK election system will do so for the French election system as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2017, 04:38:17 pm

Quote from: da_nang on June 11, 2017, 04:24:59 pm

UK: 37% votes for Conservatives giving 51% of the seats in parliament
France: 32% votes for En Marche! giving at least 71% of the seats

I hope anyone lambasting the UK election system will do so for the French election system as well.

That's a, uh, curious comparison there. Though there are factors involved in the French election which aren't involved in the English one, such as the French one being more fractured and the fact that the two former main parties got walloped by two others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 05:11:32 pm

That French election outcome is really insane. Socialist Party is right. If the second round doesn't change the result, there will be no opposition, and parliament will not be able to control the government, or debate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2017, 05:15:17 pm

Meanwhile in Germany, 3 passengers from the UK have been released. Yesterday, a plane made an emergency landing after passengers reported to the crew that 3 fellow passengers were speaking about terrorism, and using the words 'bomb' and 'explosion'.
The police reports that there was no indication of the 3 posing a threat, and they have been released. Nine people were injured during the evacuation of the plane.

So folks, first rule about the recent terrorist attacks: You don't speak about the terrorist attacks.

Hint for terrorists: you don't need AK's or bombs. Just shout 'bomb!', or 'run!' in a crowd, and the crowd will make the casualties for ya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2017, 05:17:25 pm

Well, it's just the lower house, I don't know what the upper house ratio would be. And yeah, it is just nuts, just shows how much the other parties collapsed.

I bet that such a large amount will quickly fragment into various factions, like the Republican party here did, so, yeah, I can see them having difficulty controlling the government.

There's also like, really low turnout, under 30%, compared to around 60% in previous years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2017, 07:33:10 pm

I still hold to my idea that non-voting population should still be represented in the government. I mean, it would probably have the unfortunate effect of every country turning into Belgium, but the people should not be denied, dammit!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 12, 2017, 01:53:27 am

Quote from: scriver on June 11, 2017, 07:33:10 pm

I still hold to my idea that non-voting population should still be represented in the government. I mean, it would probably have the unfortunate effect of every country turning into Belgium, but the people should not be denied, dammit!

Do you say that because we have mandatory voting? Because I've never seen our gridlock being blamed on mandatory voting, usually just on the mix of proportional seatings and two nations jammed into one country.

Also Re: Macron, it's to be noted that given France's two-round legislative system, there is much less tactical voting in the first round. LRM will have a far larger %age during the second round. So far, only 4 seats have been won (there is no run-off if a candidate score higher than 50%) of while LRM won two.

Still, there if you think that a strong opposition is a good thing, things are not looking good. This is compounded by an interesting argument I've heard*: about half of LRM's candidates are member of "civil society" (largely heads of small business, proffessionals and others notables, rather than member of NGO or other non-party political groups). Those candidates with no political experience, no political career of their own to further and not party machinery to oppose Macron means he'll probably face way less opposition from his own MPs than is usual. Some are already talking of rubber-stamp parliament.

Also of note is that the FN only score 13% (Same %age as 2012, but given lower turnout that means 2.9 millions votes instead of 3.5). For the record that %age translated to 2 seats last time around. It seems that the mental image of the FN voters as highly motivated needs to be updated: as the party removed itself from the fringe, it also picked up a lot of apathetic voters it seems.

*Amusingly, those among my aquaintances making this arguments are usually the same ranting about getting all politicians out and getting rid of party politics. Well, how do you like post-party politics now uh! So yeah, this provide me with large amount of Schadenfreude.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 12, 2017, 03:51:48 am

No, I mean Belgium as in a state with no government. Because if voter participation is only 30% you'd have 70% no-vote seats. Participation would have to always be 51% for even a coalition government (of all parties at that) to form.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 12, 2017, 04:02:28 am

You have no idea. We have some many governments. Governments all over the place I tell you.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

In an unsurpassed act of Belgianism, the second appointed Dutch (in)formateur failed to form a new government. Which is hardly surprising, because he tried to get the same 4 parties that failed to reach agreement with the previous formateur to try again.

It's already 89 days since the elections.

EDIT: in completely unrelated news, the city of Madrid is trying to get rid of the macho culture, and promote acceptance of homosexuality.
288 of the city's pedestrian traffic lights had the image of a walking man replaced with images of both hetero, and gay couples walking hand in hand, as well as single women.
Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The traffic lights were placed in preparation for the World Pride, which will be held in Madrid this year. About 2 million lgbt folks are expected to visit Madrid at the end of this month.
The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 12, 2017, 04:01:55 pm

Fun times ahead: Finnish government has collapsed. (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/pm_sipila_govt_collapsed_over_sharper_differences_with_finns_party/9665375)

Potential coalition with Swedish People's Party and Christian Democrats for a majority government; or a minority government; or *gasp* snap election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 12, 2017, 04:18:38 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

In an unsurpassed act of Belgianism, the second appointed Dutch (in)formateur failed to form a new government. Which is hardly surprising, because he tried to get the same 4 parties that failed to reach agreement with the previous formateur to try again.

It's already 89 days since the elections.

EDIT: in completely unrelated news, the city of Madrid is trying to get rid of the macho culture, and promote acceptance of homosexuality.
288 of the city's pedestrian traffic lights had the image of a walking man replaced with images of both hetero, and gay couples walking hand in hand, as well as single women.
Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The traffic lights were placed in preparation for the World Pride, which will be held in Madrid this year. About 2 million lgbt folks are expected to visit Madrid at the end of this month.
The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

Not actually banned. You wont actually get fined or anything for wanting to get a bit of oxygen to your hanger-ons

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 12, 2017, 05:02:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

That's so stupid. "Manspreading" is such a bullshit sexist term.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 12, 2017, 06:36:11 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 12, 2017, 05:02:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

That's so stupid. "Manspreading" is such a bullshit sexist term.

It sounded more like trying to dissuade men from being overly obnoxious with personal space. I don't live in Spain, so, I have no idea if that's actually a problem in Madrid or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 12, 2017, 06:38:10 pm

It's stupid to gender it like that, though. Men and women both take up more space than strictly necessary. You often see it with women placing their bags on empty seats beside them. Also, the biggest offender of taking up more than one's fair share of space are fat people. Are they gonna have "not fatspreading" campaigns too?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 12, 2017, 09:34:00 pm

I think those are called health campaigns :P

But yea, plastering sex propaganda all over the city. Lol. Can you imagine what would happen if sceptics did something similar?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 12, 2017, 10:14:57 pm

Quote from: greatorder on June 12, 2017, 10:03:22 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 12, 2017, 05:02:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

That's so stupid. "Manspreading" is such a bullshit sexist term.

And if you know why people do it, it's not some "Machismo dominance" thing, it's because we have balls and they can get sweaty, hot and uncomfortable.

Seemed like it meant spreading your legs as far as possible, thus being obnoxious, at least that's what the intent seems to be.

Though overall it seems like a stupid sexist term, yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 12, 2017, 11:24:28 pm

Quote from: greatorder on June 12, 2017, 10:03:22 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 12, 2017, 05:02:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 12, 2017, 02:02:08 pm

Furthermore, it is henceforth forbidden to manspread in the city busses. The busses have been fitted with a sign showing a man sitting with his legs wide, and a big red cross through it.

The manspreading ban is in line with the city's governing leftwing party's policy to denounce macho culture. The city's metro does not join in the ban. This is because the metro is run by the region, which is governed by the conservative Partido Popular, while the busses are run by the city, which is governed by the progressive left Ahora Madrid.

That's so stupid. "Manspreading" is such a bullshit sexist term.

And if you know why people do it, it's not some "Machismo dominance" thing, it's because we have balls and they can get sweaty, hot and uncomfortable.

It's also done to avoid putting strain on your muscles so you can sit comfortably. Specifically, the adductor muscles. It's a very neutral position.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kot on June 13, 2017, 12:04:34 am

Want to see something hilarious?
[urk=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BcMI2MGb_g]He woke up before waking up was even a thing.[/url]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 05:35:09 am

Dayum, I knew special beers had gained popularity over the past few years, but this is crazy.
In ten years time, the total number of beer breweries in the Netherlands has risen from 90 in 2007 to 370 this year.
Most of these are one-man companies.
The number of medium companies (employing up to 5 people) has risen from 20 to 60, and the number of large breweries (more than 5 employees) has risen to 35.

But yeah, what used to be a single shelf in the supermarket for selling special beers a decade ago, has changed to half a supermarket lane today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 06:16:56 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 05:35:09 am

Dayum, I knew special beers had gained popularity over the past few years, but this is crazy.
In ten years time, the total number of beer breweries in the Netherlands has risen from 90 in 2007 to 370 this year.
Most of these are one-man companies.
The number of medium companies (employing up to 5 people) has risen from 20 to 60, and the number of large breweries (more than 5 employees) has risen to 35.

But yeah, what used to be a single shelf in the supermarket for selling special beers a decade ago, has changed to half a supermarket lane today.

You see people: never loose hope. Even the Netherlands can civilize itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 08:50:58 am

Quote from: da_nang on June 12, 2017, 04:01:55 pm

Fun times ahead: Finnish government has collapsed. (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/pm_sipila_govt_collapsed_over_sharper_differences_with_finns_party/9665375)

Potential coalition with Swedish People's Party and Christian Democrats for a majority government; or a minority government; or *gasp* snap election.

Theres quite a bit of silly stuff going on today and right now the situation is very fluid. There have been some stupid and surprising events during the day including PM flying himself to meet the president to dismantle the government only to cancel the thing at last minute, and an open war within a party.

I dont feel very positive about this. Things can potentially become very ugly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 09:05:39 am

inb4 Russia annexes Finland to protect Russian speaking fins and flippers.

Makes me wonder though. If a NATO country were to fall into a political crisis that splits the country into two new countries, would they both still be NATO member, or would they be left without article 5 protection?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 09:08:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 09:05:39 am

inb4 Russia annexes Finland to protect Russian speaking fins and flippers.

If that happens I wish them good luck trying.

Looks like the three large parties that form the government are trying to kick out unwanted people from one(about half the party) in an interior struggle for power, and theres approximately 5 layers of smoke and mirrors and a lot of reacting to situation on top of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 09:12:13 am

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 09:08:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 09:05:39 am

inb4 Russia annexes Finland to protect Russian speaking fins and flippers.

If that happens I wish them good luck trying.

Looks like the three large parties that form the government are trying to kick out unwanted people from one(about half the party) in an interior struggle for power, and theres approximately 5 layers of smoke and mirrors and a lot of reacting to situation on top of it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://www.beheadingboredom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/visit-russia-before-they-visit-you-ukraine.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 09:26:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 09:05:39 am

inb4 Russia annexes Finland to protect Russian speaking fins and flippers.

Makes me wonder though. If a NATO country were to fall into a political crisis that splits the country into two new countries, would they both still be NATO member, or would they be left without article 5 protection?

Catalonia becoming independent from Spain? No need for a hypothetical, theres a real possibility right there. Still, I don't think a situation like that has ever arisen for NATO, otherwise we wouldn't be asking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 09:41:23 am

The Catalonian matter... is a bit more complex than that, for the record.


As a disclaimer, I do think the Catalonians should get the right of self-determination. For that matter, I also think they deserve an Economic Agreement, which is what they *really* want, and one of the root motives of the current situation.

Now bear in mind
- that pro and anti-independence parties are very matched (if anything the votes slightly lean against independence parties, though paradoxically enough they have a couple more reps)

- That the current climate was born from when the biggest nationalist party (right wing) clashed with the Popular Party (also right wing) over the Economic Agreement matter.

- That both parties have a reason to make noise about Catalonian independence (for and against respectively) because both are swamped by corruption  and need a smokescreen.

- That the central goverment routinely picks a minority sub-nationality to use as a scapegoat for buggery in the rest of Spain. For most of the last 30 years that was us, usually bringing up the matter of ETA, but as the latter disappeared now they're increasingly making noise about Catalonia and fostering anti-Catalanist sentiments.



TL'DR: this is a complex issue in which both major players are all bark and no bite and have a keen interest in keeping barking. Dont expect too much out of this one way or the other

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 09:50:03 am

What is that Economic Agreement you speak of?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 09:52:58 am

Oh, so, it's closer to a US state (usually Texas, more recently it was California) having a bit of a hissy fit and thumping chest about seccession, but in reality goes nowhere.

It was the first example that came up in my head. Maybe a slightly better example would be Scotland, however, they're practically a separate country from England and are already part of NATO anyway by being in the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 09:58:34 am

Finally some Brexit progress: Lord Buckethead agree to fill the void and lead the UK's Brexit negotiations. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/35e52bfa-8165-4de8-99b2-07898bce3dd4?ns_campaign=bbc-three&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=FACEBOOK&ns_linkname=bbcthree) That should be a relief to people like Michel Barnier, the EU's main negotiator who are concerned that the UK is wasting precious time to reach an agreement before times run  out.  (http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21723341-eus-lead-negotiator-warns-time-talks-running-short-michel-barnier-impatient)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 13, 2017, 10:49:20 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 09:52:58 am

Oh, so, it's closer to a US state (usually Texas, more recently it was California) having a bit of a hissy fit and thumping chest about seccession, but in reality goes nowhere.

If Texans/Californians were actually a different people that the US has suppressed alternatively attempted to destroy for the last 500 years, yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 10:58:51 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 09:50:03 am

What is that Economic Agreement you speak of?

Basque Economic Agreement. Actually, transferred Basque competences in general. Artur Mas (the current 'spiritual leader' -and former head of Catalonian goverment) wanted those. PP's goverment blocked him and started agitprop against Catalonians, Artur Mas countered with pro-independence protests.

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 09:52:58 am

Oh, so, it's closer to a US state (usually Texas, more recently it was California) having a bit of a hissy fit and thumping chest about seccession, but in reality goes nowhere.

It was the first example that came up in my head. Maybe a slightly better example would be Scotland, however, they're practically a separate country from England and are already part of NATO anyway by being in the UK.

I wouldnt say that either. The Catalonians have genuine grievances. Its just that the matter is far more complex  and multipolar than people make it abroad.

I'm guessing thats true of all political conflicts though. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 12:30:42 pm

The EU is starting a disciplinary lawsuit against Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic, for not complying with the amount of refugees that was agreed to be relocated there from the 160 thousand refugees stranded in Greece and Italy.
Poland and Hungary failed to relocate in a single refugee. the Czech Republic, who was designated to take in 2691 refugees, took in 12 people and then declared that was more than enough.

The three countries stand to lose the EU subsidies they have been recieving since they joined the EU.
Viktor Orbán has said he will not give in to blackmail.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 12:36:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 12:30:42 pm

The EU is starting a disciplinary lawsuit against Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic, for not complying with the amount of refugees that was agreed to be relocated there from the 160 thousand refugees stranded in Greece and Italy.
Poland and Hungary failed to relocate in a single refugee. the Czech Republic, who was designated to take in 2691 refugees, took in 12 people and then declared that was more than enough.

The three countries stand to lose the EU subsidies they have been recieving since they joined the EU.
Viktor Orbán has said he will not give in to blackmail.

But no disciplinary actions being taken against approximately half the Union for not following Dublin Regulation?

/sarcasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 12:44:08 pm

Dublin is unworkable, because of it's 'first country of entry' principle. It should never have been ratified. If we were to follow Dublin, 99% of refugees would have to be taken in by Greece and Italy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 12:47:35 pm

I would rather they just keep them off European shores entirely and house them in camps on leased land in Libya or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 01:22:49 pm

Tangentially related news European Court Rules In Favour Of Former Basque Parliament Speaker (https://www.pakistanpoint.com/en/world/news/european-court-rules-in-favour-of-former-basq-151033.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 01:48:28 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 12:47:35 pm

I would rather they just keep them off European shores entirely and house them in camps on leased land in Libya or something.

And I would rather that there be peace all over the world and no refugees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 01:49:19 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 01:48:28 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 12:47:35 pm

I would rather they just keep them off European shores entirely and house them in camps on leased land in Libya or something.

And I would rather that there be peace all over the world and no refugees.

Difference is, mine is something that can be done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 01:50:57 pm

Hahahaha no it isn't. Unless you want to go full nazi and shoot any boat that enters te mediterrenean

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 01:52:38 pm

You'd also need to rip off a bunch of treaties, find a partner in Libya (getting a deal with Turkey was hard enough, and they have a functionning govt).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 02:03:43 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 01:52:38 pm

You'd also need to rip off a bunch of treaties, find a partner in Libya (getting a deal with Turkey was hard enough, and they have a functionning govt).

IIRC UN members can atm do whatever they please with Libya except for long term occupying areas within the borders. As long as they inform the recognized government. Thats why NATO was planning to bomb ships and boats found at the Libyan coast as a means to prevent smugglers from sending people to the ocean where they get "rescued".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 02:08:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 01:50:57 pm

Hahahaha no it isn't. Unless you want to go full nazi and shoot any boat that enters te mediterrenean

Nonsense. Simply take the people aboard ships and then immediately deliver them back to the Libyan coast. (And no, I don't give a single flying fuck about treaties that say otherwise.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 02:08:32 pm

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 02:03:43 pm

IIRC UN members can atm do whatever they please with Libya except for long term occupying areas within the borders. As long as they inform the recognized government. Thats why NATO was planning to bomb ships and boats found at the Libyan coast as a means to prevent smugglers from sending people to the ocean where they get "rescued".

I don't think NATO ever planned to do anything of the kind. Don't think anyone invoked article 5 yet for the refugees landing on their beaches. There were a couple of EU nations though that toyed with the idea (of bombing ships).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 02:11:37 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 02:08:16 pm

Nonsense. Simply take the people aboard ships and then immediately deliver them back to the Libyan coast. (And no, I don't give a single flying fuck about treaties that say otherwise.)

People who don't give a fuck about international treaties are a much bigger threat to the Western world than refugees will ever be

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 02:13:08 pm

I don't agree. See, the thing about treaties is that they can be changed. It's not like they're some immutable natural law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 02:14:55 pm

Saying that treaties should be open to amendment is something completely different than saying you don't give a fuck about them.

EDIT: in other news, it looks like the government crisis in Finland has been resolved. The populist government party has been forced by PM Juha Sipilä to split into two seperate parties. One party, New Alternative, will stay on as government party, with 20 of the original 37 members of parliament, the other 17, more extreme-right members will become an opposition party, keeping the party's name Finland Party.
With this, the government keeps it's majority in parliament and the crisis is averted.

PM Sipilä had threatened to blow up the coalition government, after Finland Party chose the extreme-right Jussi Halla-aho as their new party leader (he has been convicted for hate-speech against islam, and is infamous for claiming that Somalians have a special gene that makes them into thieves).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 02:23:37 pm

Does anybody else feel that this line of discussion is going to result in bans in the near future?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:35:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 02:23:37 pm

Does anybody else feel that this line of discussion is going to result in bans in the near future?

Which line of discussion?

Though the whole thing on what to do with the refugees, especially the ones coming in by boat, since they have to be rescued so much, is certainly a politically and ethically difficult problem to solve with no easy solution.

And of course, with the situation in Libya, you'd have to ask yourself if it's ethical to send them back. They're refugees for a reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 13, 2017, 02:41:11 pm

They primarily aren't from Libya, smj.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:44:39 pm

I know, Libya was just the particular example pwnzerfaust used.

If the best solution was as simple as just sending them back to Libya or wherever, but it isn't that simple. I believe pwnzerfaust is American, right? At least his location says so. So, it'll be colored somewhat by our experience with immigration. Not giving an excuse or blame or anything, just providing a point of perspective.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 02:47:14 pm

German-American dual citizen.

Their primary transit point, recently, is Libya. Even if their original point of origin is usually further south (or as far away as Bangladesh!). Therefore it is best to drop them off where they jumped off in an attempt to reach Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 02:49:57 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 02:14:55 pm

Saying that treaties should be open to amendment is something completely different than saying you don't give a fuck about them.

EDIT: in other news, it looks like the government crisis in Finland has been resolved. The populist government party has been forced by PM Juha Sipilä to split into two seperate parties. One party, New Alternative, will stay on as government party, with 20 of the original 37 members of parliament, the other 17, more extreme-right members will become an opposition party, keeping the party's name Finland Party.
With this, the government keeps it's majority in parliament and the crisis is averted.

PM Sipilä had threatened to blow up the coalition government, after Finland Party chose the extreme-right Jussi Halla-aho as their new party leader (he has been convicted for hate-speech against islam, and is infamous for claiming that Somalians have a special gene that makes them into thieves).

Not true. They split themselves. The previous leaders of the Finns party lost power so all the ministers and some more departed and formed their own group. Theres a lot still going on but information has already been surfacing that this was planned months ago.

Jussi Halla-aho also is "extreme right" to left wing populists and journalists mostly, and what you quoted is incorrect. He simply quoted a local newspaper in his blog. It is very unfortunate that we too, supposedly the least corrupt country in the world, have political convictions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:52:50 pm

Libya makes sense as a crossing point because within the Mediterranean, it's the area which is closest to land. It's a relatively quick hop from there to Sicily and then Italy, or just straight to Italy. There's also Morocco and Spain.

The thing though is that in doing so, you'd be offloading the refugee problem to Libya, and I doubt they're particularily well prepared to handle loads of them, nevermind the fact that one government doesn't control the entire coastline. There's also the matter of whether Italy can logistically do it since Italy is the main point of arrival I believe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 13, 2017, 03:03:06 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:52:50 pm

Libya makes sense as a crossing point because within the Mediterranean, it's the area which is closest to land.

Tunisia begs to differ.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:06:19 pm

Quote from: da_nang on June 13, 2017, 03:03:06 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:52:50 pm

Libya makes sense as a crossing point because within the Mediterranean, it's the area which is closest to land.

Tunisia begs to differ.

Whoops, yeah you're right, I was sort of wandering off with my thought there in the post. Wonder why Libya is the port of choice for the refugees to leave at then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 03:09:46 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:52:50 pm

Libya makes sense as a crossing point because within the Mediterranean, it's the area which is closest to land. It's a relatively quick hop from there to Sicily and then Italy, or just straight to Italy. There's also Morocco and Spain.

The thing though is that in doing so, you'd be offloading the refugee problem to Libya, and I doubt they're particularily well prepared to handle loads of them, nevermind the fact that one government doesn't control the entire coastline. There's also the matter of whether Italy can logistically do it since Italy is the main point of arrival I believe.

Majority of the people crossing from Libya aren't properly refugees, anyway. They're opportunistic illegal economic migrants and have no right to be in Libya, much less Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:11:58 pm

The question is not whether they have a right to be in Europe or not. They are coming. They're not going to stop coming just because you threaten to put them into concentration camps in Lybia (which would require Lybian acquiescence, btw). They're already risking life and limb to cross the Atlantic//Mediterranean.

There are no easy solutions to this conundrum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 13, 2017, 03:12:21 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:06:19 pm

Quote from: da_nang on June 13, 2017, 03:03:06 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 02:52:50 pm

Libya makes sense as a crossing point because within the Mediterranean, it's the area which is closest to land.

Tunisia begs to differ.

Whoops, yeah you're right, I was sort of wandering off with my thought there in the post. Wonder why Libya is the port of choice for the refugees to leave at then.

Because it has no law and the people who bring them over are criminals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:15:34 pm

Then, to secure its advantages and future of liberal, democratic, prosperous way of living, Europe should go to war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:16:17 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:11:58 pm

The question is not whether they have a "right" to be in Europe or not. They are coming. They're not going to stop coming just because you threaten to put them into concentration camps in Lybia (which would require Lybian acquiescence, btw). They're already risking life and limb to cross the Atlantic//Mediterranean.

I think he meant refugee camps, not the concentration type.

And complicating Libya is that you don't have a central government controlling the entire country. There is one internationally recognized government, but you'd have to deal with the other one which controls about half of the Libyan coast.

Sending them back to their port of origin is what the law says, but as Chairmanpoo said, it's not going to stop them from coming or trying to take some other route.

@erkki: I get that you're joking, but it's not really something to joke about. Not in a joke-about-it-and-get-banned sort of way, just in a this-is-a-serious-thing way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 03:20:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:11:58 pm

The question is not whether they have a right to be in Europe or not. They are coming. They're not going to stop coming just because you threaten to put them into concentration camps in Lybia (which would require Lybian acquiescence, btw). They're already risking life and limb to cross the Atlantic//Mediterranean.

There are no easy solutions to this conundrum.

Libya is in no position to say no.

Really it is easy, as long as Europe grows a collective spine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:20:47 pm

It was a better joke than almost 50 million muslims, most of whom share downright medieval values and perceive themselves as aliens amongst hethens, are already in Europe, while Turkey blackmails the union and nobody wants to touch a failed country across the sea through which more useless people keep coming. From nations with highest population growth in the world. There is no solution in the horizon if Europe isnt ready to use all the tools in the box.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:24:31 pm

May want to slap a /sarcasm tag in there.

I get what you mean about using all of the tools in the box, but war isn't going to solve it, you saw how the US botched up Iraq.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:29:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:24:31 pm

May want to slap a /sarcasm tag in there.

I get what you mean about using all of the tools in the box, but war isn't going to solve it, you saw how the US botched up Iraq.

EU doesnt need to occupy every African and mid-Eastern country and bring them democracy. They need to stop being spineless and indecisive, look after their borders and smack a neighbour or two if they get too cocky(with words and economic sanctions first), just like the greatest economical area and union in the world, that also holds approx 1/5 of all the worlds military might, should.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:30:43 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 03:20:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:11:58 pm

The question is not whether they have a right to be in Europe or not. They are coming. They're not going to stop coming just because you threaten to put them into concentration camps in Lybia (which would require Lybian acquiescence, btw). They're already risking life and limb to cross the Atlantic//Mediterranean.

There are no easy solutions to this conundrum.

Libya is in no position to say no.

Really it is easy, as long as Europe grows a collective spine.

They are in no position to say yes, considering they're in a state of civil war already. It'd just make the central goverment even weaker.

Besides, who's going to pay for the internment camps? And what prevents refugees from braving the Mediterranean again? Really, your proposal is a pipe dream

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:29:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:24:31 pm

May want to slap a /sarcasm tag in there.

I get what you mean about using all of the tools in the box, but war isn't going to solve it, you saw how the US botched up Iraq.

EU doesnt need to occupy every African and mid-Eastern country and bring them democracy. They need to stop being spineless and indecisive, look after their borders and smack a neighbour or two if they get too cocky(with words and economic sanctions first), just like the greatest economical area and union in the world, that also holds approx 1/5 of all the worlds military might, should.

Yeah, "smack a neighbour or two". Because meddling in the politics of North Africa and the Middle East has turned out so good this far...

oh wait

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 03:33:34 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:30:43 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 03:20:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:11:58 pm

The question is not whether they have a right to be in Europe or not. They are coming. They're not going to stop coming just because you threaten to put them into concentration camps in Lybia (which would require Lybian acquiescence, btw). They're already risking life and limb to cross the Atlantic//Mediterranean.

There are no easy solutions to this conundrum.

Libya is in no position to say no.

Really it is easy, as long as Europe grows a collective spine.

They are in no position to say yes, considering they're in a state of civil war already. It'd just make the central goverment even weaker.

Besides, who's going to pay for the internment camps? And what prevents refugees from braving the Mediterranean again? Really, your proposal is a pipe dream

Europe will. The price is worth it, since it's cheaper than housing all the illegals in Germany or Sweden, and it maintains social integrity to boot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:36:57 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:30:43 pm

Yeah, "smack a neighbour or two". Because meddling in the politics of North Africa and the Middle East has turned out so good this far...

oh wait

You have better ideas? Start saving for your jizyah, dhimmi.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:39:05 pm

And how do you plan on doing that, logistically? Plus, making Libyas population grow by a few million suddenly doesn't seem like a smart idea. Plus not all of the illegals are coming in from Libya.

Compared to Europe, the US actually has a way simpler situation because we've got two oceans and only two other countries bordering us.

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:36:57 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:30:43 pm

Yeah, "smack a neighbour or two". Because meddling in the politics of North Africa and the Middle East has turned out so good this far...

oh wait

You have better ideas? Start saving for your jizyah, dhimmi.

Eh? Lets turn the temp down a couple notches here......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:43:25 pm

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:36:57 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 03:30:43 pm

Yeah, "smack a neighbour or two". Because meddling in the politics of North Africa and the Middle East has turned out so good this far...

oh wait

You have better ideas? Start saving for your jizyah, dhimmi.

There are no easy solutions for this problem. I sure do know that juvenile alt-right pipedreams will make the problem worse. Provide a solution, not more problems, please

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 13, 2017, 03:45:03 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 03:39:05 pm

Quote from: Erkki on June 13, 2017, 03:36:57 pm

You have better ideas? Start saving for your jizyah, dhimmi.

Eh? Lets turn the temp down a couple notches here......

Yes please, advocating war with exaggerated xenophobic fearmongering is not very friendly nor polite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on June 13, 2017, 04:04:46 pm

Careful or we will lose another. lagslayer seems to have perhaps touched off a string of this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 04:11:14 pm

The whole immigration and refugee problem is a pretty touchy subject for Europe, and there simply aren't any easy solutions, as much as everybody would like an easy solution.

But yes, things are getting a little... testy... over the subject right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 13, 2017, 04:34:22 pm

Getting rid of Ghaddafi was a mistake. The French couldn't leave his attempts at reducing their influence in Francophone West Africa alone though, so they knocked it all over. Now he's not around to stamp out the human traffickers, and we get the current situation.

They did this to themselves, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 04:37:11 pm

Quote from: Baffler on June 13, 2017, 04:34:22 pm

Getting rid of Ghaddafi was a mistake. The French couldn't leave his attempts at reducing their influence in Francophone West Africa alone though, so they knocked it all over. Now he's not around to stamp out the human traffickers, and we get the current situation.

They did this to themselves, really.

The Libyans probably think otherwise.

It's one thing to say that, but proving it is another thing entirely because we don't have a time machine.

However, deposing (or dethroning or whatever) him without a plan to immediately fill the vacuum with a government that the people can trust, was definetly a mistake that was made.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on June 13, 2017, 04:49:56 pm

Whats this about internet camps?

And how do I sign up?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 13, 2017, 05:11:47 pm

Quote from: Baffler on June 13, 2017, 04:34:22 pm

Getting rid of Ghaddafi was a mistake. The French couldn't leave his attempts at reducing their influence in Francophone West Africa alone though, so they knocked it all over. Now he's not around to stamp out the human traffickers, and we get the current situation.

They did this to themselves, really.

Ghaddafi got rid of himself in the first place. Half the country rebelled without NATO dropping a single bomb. Without intervention that civil war might very well still be going on.

The situation now is still bad of course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 05:24:30 pm

That's... Definitely not certain. The Libyan Army had rallied and the rebels were making a sort of last-stand in the east of the country. I'm under the impression that the Western air strikes saved the rebellion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2017, 05:31:25 pm

Well, sending refugees to Libya just moves the problem somewhere else, to a country that won't be particularly happy about it. They'll want something in return for it, like Turkey did, and if they don't get it I can't imagine they're going to want to pay for keeping the refugees.

Libyan government-funded people smuggling into Europe, commence!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 05:34:10 pm

Nah, but I guess you could make a deal where wannabe refugees are processed on Libyan soil in European-adminsitered camps and all boats are returned to Libya for processing there. That way you cut a large portion of the people smuggler's business, save 5-6000 lives a year from drowning in the Med and can actually only let legit refugees to Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:59 pm

That hasn't worked so well in the Spanish exclaves in Morocco, hasn't there been a handful of mass rushes on the fences there in the past few months?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 05:41:32 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 05:34:10 pm

Nah, but I guess you could make a deal where wannabe refugees are processed on Libyan soil in European-adminsitered camps and all boats are returned to Libya for processing there. That way you cut a large portion of the people smuggler's business, save 5-6000 lives a year from drowning in the Med and can actually only let legit refugees to Europe.

What's preventing them from trying again, though?

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:59 pm

That hasn't worked so well in the Spanish exclaves in Morocco, hasn't there been a handful of mass rushes on the fences there in the past few months?

Over and over. This sudden panic about mass immigration? The south of Spain has been like that as far as I can remember. People actually brave the Atlantic in makeshift boats from as far as Mauritania. And the tide is not abating. Tbh that's one of the things that puzzles me the most of the refuggee crisis: it's not new at all and has been going on for decades in Southern Europe

By the way, afaik according to international law you can't just shove immigrants back across the border as they come in, nor can you repatriate them somewhere without said country's collaboration. One common tactic in internment centers is lying about your country of birth to muddle things up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 05:47:35 pm

Quote from: hector13 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:59 pm

That hasn't worked so well in the Spanish exclaves in Morocco, hasn't there been a handful of mass rushes on the fences there in the past few months?

Yeah, those happens from time to time, but it's different: the Spanish exclaves are European soil, those camps wouldn't be. But yeah, those are the main illustration of how broken and retarded the EU asylum/migration policy is: we make it very hard and dangerous to enter Europe, but once people are in we're extremely generous if they're granted asylum and extremely bad at making them exit again. It's like a fucking sick game show.

Quote

What's preventing them from trying again, though?

Trying what? To cross the Med? They can, but frankly, if the end results is that migrants are once more put on real boat instead of being put on leaky zodiac that are only intended to make it to the rescue ship right outside of Libya territorial water, we'll at least be saving a large portions of them from drowning. It's again an exemple of the fucking travesty our approach is: more migrants are dying trying to cross the 20 km to the rescue ships than trying to cross the hundreds of km to Lampedusa several years ago.

Plus, we're getting pretty good at intercepting boats (although not good enough to prevent the 5000-6000 estimated death a year) and as long as they're in international water you could legally turn them back AFAIK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:05:10 pm

Another thing I wish Europe would do, in addition to other measures, is to target the smugglers. Arrest or assassinate them. If Europe makes being a people smuggler extremely hazardous to one's health, it will reduce the number of smugglers, thereby driving up prices and reducing flow out of Libya.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 06:11:53 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:05:10 pm

Another thing I wish Europe would do, in addition to other measures, is to target the smugglers. Arrest or assassinate them. If Europe makes being a people smuggler extremely hazardous to one's health, it will reduce the number of smugglers, thereby driving up prices and reducing flow out of Libya.

That's way easier said than down, unless you want to occupy Libya entirely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:13:19 pm

How many thousands of ISIS members have the coalition killed so far? I'm sure if smugglers were treated like ISIS, they could put the fear of the gods into them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 06:17:45 pm

Do I really need to point out how it's far easier to identify an ISIS soldier from the air than to identify a smuggler?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:19:53 pm

Sure, but that's why you put people on the ground to find out who they are. They obviously need to be known by people in order to be useful, so you find out who they are, and then either use special forces to extract or eliminate them, or watch them until they are isolated from anyone else and drop a missile on their heads. Rinse and repeat until people are too scared to be smugglers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:21:43 pm

Well, as Sheb said, it's easier said than done. It's not like there are smuggler training camps or bases to target.

The most obvious way to deal with the smugglers is to make it nonprofitable to smuggle, but how do you go about that? Maybe you could treat them like people already treat Somali pirates? Except that they commonly just abandon the refugee ship and flee back to shore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on June 13, 2017, 06:22:09 pm

Nothing could possibly go wrong with this more missiles plan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 06:22:41 pm

At that point why don't you invade the country and install a stable government? Because it's starting to sound easier.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:24:26 pm

I'd be okay with that too, actually. Although I'd rather have the EU recognize one of the factions and have that faction 'invite' the EU to come in and fix things. Makes things a little more legally legitimate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:25:05 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:19:53 pm

Sure, but that's why you put people on the ground to find out who they are. They obviously need to be known by people in order to be useful, so you find out who they are, and then either use special forces to extract or eliminate them, or watch them until they are isolated from anyone else and drop a missile on their heads. Rinse and repeat until people are too scared to be smugglers.

Or maybe just arrest the smugglers? Dropping a missile on them would be too messy. Also, you just said that you'd have to occupy Libya.

Quote from: Sheb on June 13, 2017, 06:22:41 pm

At that point why don't you invade the country and install a stable government? Because it's starting to sound easier.

Maybe we should have done that in the first place. Oh wait! We already did with Iraq and look how that turned out! :P

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:24:26 pm

I'd be okay with that too, actually. Although I'd rather have the EU recognize one of the factions and have that faction 'invite' the EU to come in and fix things. Makes things a little more legally legitimate.

One of the factions is already internationally recognized. Only problem is, those guys only control half the coastline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:29:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:25:05 pm

One of the factions is already internationally recognized. Only problem is, those guys only control half the coastline.

Right, which is why they should ask the EU to come in and help them control the whole country (under the condition that migrants do not under any circumstances leave from Libya to Europe). And if they are hesitant to ask on their own, then EU should bribe their leaders into doing what they're told.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:32:57 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:29:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:25:05 pm

One of the factions is already internationally recognized. Only problem is, those guys only control half the coastline.

Right, which is why they should ask the EU to come in and help them control the whole country (under the condition that migrants do not under any circumstances leave from Libya to Europe). And if they are hesitant to ask on their own, then EU should bribe their leaders into doing what they're told.

Bribe? You're so imperialist. (JOKING!)

Seriously though, there would have to be political will to actually do that in the first place, and it'd probably be either NATO or the UN rather than the EU, which doesn't actually have a common army called the 'EU army'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 06:33:15 pm

Cute. Who's going to provide boots on the ground?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:34:01 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 06:33:15 pm

Cute. Who's going to provide boots on the ground?

France would probably take the lead on it, since they have the largest ground forces in the EU. Germany would hopefully play a large part as well, as Germany has a lot to gain in keeping the illegals out.

Quote from: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:32:57 pm

Bribe? You're so imperialist. (JOKING!)

Imperialism is underrated.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 13, 2017, 06:38:39 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:34:01 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 13, 2017, 06:33:15 pm

Cute. Who's going to provide boots on the ground?

France would probably take the lead on it, since they have the largest ground forces in the EU. Germany would hopefully play a large part as well, as Germany has a lot to gain in keeping the illegals out.

It might be a better idea for an international force to do it, rather than have it be solely from a single country.

Trying to somehow get the various factions to coalesce together into a single government would be a much better idea, but that's a very long term thing, and I'm not sure if anybody is actually actively working on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:42:29 pm

Actually, yeah, I meant to add but forgot when I edited in the Imperialism thingy: I think it could be a wonderful proof of concept for a united EU military force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 13, 2017, 06:46:44 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:05:10 pm

Another thing I wish Europe would do, in addition to other measures, is to target the smugglers. Arrest or assassinate them. If Europe makes being a people smuggler extremely hazardous to one's health, it will reduce the number of smugglers, thereby driving up prices and reducing flow out of Libya.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:05:10 pm

Arrest or assassinate them.

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:05:10 pm

assassinate

Extrajudicial killings for the win. Works for Duterte, amirite?

Alternatively, any war on drugs. Pushing up prices is going to make it more appealing to criminals, not less.

I don't think it's sensible for a government - any government - to a) say they're too weak to be able to stand on their own and b) ask a foreign government to intercede on their behalf in an internal conflict.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 12:26:37 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:42:29 pm

Actually, yeah, I meant to add but forgot when I edited in the Imperialism thingy: I think it could be a wonderful proof of concept for a united EU military force.

United EU military force, yeah thats what Junckner & CO want. More power to the large countries and Brussels' technocrats. Say no to eurofederalism. Ps. thats what this recent crisis in Finland was at least partially about too.

I dont think common armed forces or military units will materialize in larger scale than these small 1-2 battalion strong rapid response forces, as long as NATO exists. There are many EU countries that are not in NATO(some with long history of neutrality) and some European NATO countries that are not in EU, such as Norway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 06:28:20 am

Finland elevates terrorist threat level today, after security intelligence service's latest threat assessment is published. In English: http://www.supo.fi/counterterrorism/terrorism_threat_assessment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 14, 2017, 06:43:56 am

Huge fire today as a 24 story hotel/apartment goes up in flames.

Oddly enough they did get a lot of complaints about issues that COULD have started the fire... at the same time they were also renovated AND met all the criteria so they shouldn't have had a fire due to any of those issues.

So either something fishy went on behind the scenes or this was just an unfortunate accident...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 06:55:08 am

They weren't renovated, they were only pimped, clad in nice looking plastic for 8 million pounds.
There's strong suspicion that the 8 million pound plastic is the main culprit for the fire spreading so fast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 07:07:57 am

Quote from: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 12:26:37 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 13, 2017, 06:42:29 pm

Actually, yeah, I meant to add but forgot when I edited in the Imperialism thingy: I think it could be a wonderful proof of concept for a united EU military force.

United EU military force, yeah thats what Junckner & CO want. More power to the large countries and Brussels' technocrats. Say no to eurofederalism. Ps. thats what this recent crisis in Finland was at least partially about too.

I dont think common armed forces or military units will materialize in larger scale than these small 1-2 battalion strong rapid response forces, as long as NATO exists. There are many EU countries that are not in NATO(some with long history of neutrality) and some European NATO countries that are not in EU, such as Norway.

It's funny, because I'm actually strongly in favour of an EU army, but I share your assesment of the likelihood of a common armed force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 07:38:15 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 07:07:57 am

It's funny, because I'm actually strongly in favour of an EU army, but I share your assesment of the likelihood of a common armed force.

You might want to try the POV of someone who lives in a small country at the edge of the union, with a tiny voice in EU, little common with people and nations at the other side and who would be personally a part of that common armed force.

I've sworn an oath to defend in peace and war this fine nation, her people, laws, security and order. Not to Brussels or, say, Portugal or Greece.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 07:45:43 am

I take it that you are a military professional then? I mean, EU army doesn't mean reinstitution of involuntary military service. Modern armies don't want conscripts. They need trained and dedicated professionals.

And if you are a military professional, surely you understand that you can't defend your own country on your own in this modern world? You're gonna need Brussels, Portugal and Greece to come to your aid if ever the shit would hit the Fin. Reciprocity is no more than reasonable in my opinion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2017, 07:48:46 am

Yeah the thing is that it's less likely to mean coming to the aid of Portugal or Greece than protecting French fishing armada as they plunder the African coastline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 07:55:13 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2017, 07:48:46 am

Yeah the thing is that it's less likely to mean coming to the aid of Portugal or Greece than protecting French fishing armada as they plunder the African coastline.

I have a lot of faith in any European's army ability to be too stuck in red tape and German guilt to do anything until Europe is attacked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 08:09:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 07:45:43 am

I take it that you are a military professional then? I mean, EU army doesn't mean reinstitution of involuntary military service. Modern armies don't want conscripts. They need trained and dedicated professionals.

Are you expert on the subject? Dedicated professionals are cool and everything, but artillery shells dont really care about how trained someone is and even a highly trained, highly capable and motivated person can only be in one place at a time. Thus, numbers still mean, unless one only plans to do peacekeeping.

Quote

And if you are a military professional, surely you understand that you can't defend your own country on your own in this modern world? You're gonna need Brussels, Portugal and Greece to come to your aid if ever the shit would hit the Fin. Reciprocity is no more than reasonable in my opinion.

We've been doing just fine almost solely alone for the past hundred years. Finland is currently militarily one of the strongest nations in Europe(ignoring navies, wartime strength in men and equipment behind only France, Germany and Greece, about a tie with Italy), and likely relative to population size the second strongest in the world after Israel. With largest and most modern artillery of the continent. And I'm not even an arty guy so no branch pride there. The trained, working age reserve is well over a million men, although the initial intended wartime strength is smaller than that.

But, a country needs to be all of that be if it wishes to live next to the drunken bear.

I am pro NATO myself, but against anything that involves EU and armed forces or defences in the same sentence. Currently support for joining NATO stands at something like 25 % so I believe it is highly unlikely that we will be joining any kind of military alliance any soon, including EU's own, and every and each political party avoids the topic like plague.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 08:12:54 am

Quote from: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 08:09:43 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 07:45:43 am

I take it that you are a military professional then? I mean, EU army doesn't mean reinstitution of involuntary military service. Modern armies don't want conscripts. They need trained and dedicated professionals.

Are you expert on the subject? Dedicated professionals are cool and everything, but artillery shells dont really care about how trained someone is and even a highly trained, highly capable and motivated person can only be in one place at a time. Thus, numbers still mean, unless one only plans to do peacekeeping.

I'm no military expert. I do know politics however. Reinstitution of a draft in peacetime will never happen, simply because it won't get past any national parliament.
Wartime draft is another matter. In that horrible scenario, I'd rather stand with my allies than stand alone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 08:19:03 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 08:12:54 am

I'm no military expert. I do know politics however. Reinstitution of a draft in peacetime will never happen, simply because it won't get past any national parliament.
Wartime draft is another matter. In that horrible scenario, I'd rather stand with my allies than stand alone.

Wartime draft is another matter indeed, as it takes at least six months to train a rifleman or some other basic job. And much longer than that for leaders and other more advanced jobs, and even that will require an large, experienced and already existing training system that very few countries in Europe still have. For countries like France the existence-threatening conflict is IMHO likely to be over before they manage to show the first draftee which way to point the gun or how to tie their shoe laces.  :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 14, 2017, 08:25:39 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

Isn't there already NATO for that? Then again, I don't think Finland is in NATO. Of course, I'm just an American interjecting my opinion into European affairs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 14, 2017, 08:29:12 am

1 year ago I would have said, yes, NATO suffices. Since Trump has been elected however, we need to deal with the real possibility that NATO's integrity has been compromised, and a backup plan might be in order.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 08:30:07 am

So, you're against military intervention abroad yet do want someone else to do a military intervention abroad on your behalf. Right.

By the way, I notice that you didn't answer whether you were part of your country's armed forces. I'm kind of curious about that, considering your hawk lobby advocacy: when you demand military interventions, is it actually you on the line of fire? Or are you asking to send someone else to solve the situation for you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2017, 08:31:05 am

For the record, the only country I'd be willing to create a common army with would be Finland, as they are our shield against Russia anyway and it would only be right of if we reinforced it.

I really don't support a NATO membership but I'd still prefer that over an EU army.

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 07:55:13 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2017, 07:48:46 am

Yeah the thing is that it's less likely to mean coming to the aid of Portugal or Greece than protecting French fishing armada as they plunder the African coastline.

I have a lot of faith in any European's army ability to be too stuck in red tape and German guilt to do anything until Europe is attacked.

And they say Greece was too wasteful with their money...

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

What are they lifting?

Quote from: smjjames on June 14, 2017, 08:25:39 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

Isn't there already NATO for that? Then again, I don't think Finland is in NATO. Of course, I'm just an American interjecting my opinion into European affairs.

Don't worry, if we didn't have any Americans interjecting themselves into European affairs this thread would be compromised 90% of me taking pot shots at Germans just to annoy Helgoland.

We only hold your intersections against you when we get upset.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 08:30:07 am

So, you're against military intervention abroad yet do want someone else to do a military intervention abroad on your behalf. Right.

By the way, I notice that you didn't answer whether you were part of your country's armed forces. I'm kind of curious about that, considering your hawk lobby advocacy: when you demand military interventions, is it actually you on the line of fire? Or are you asking to send someone else to solve the situation for you?

Who are you directing this at?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 08:31:26 am

Erkki. He was advocating European invasion of Lybia (and other neighbouring nations) a few pages ago. Now it kind of seems he wants *other* Europeans to invade Lybia (or wherever) for him. I find it darkly amusing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:34:35 am

Some of those cooperations initiative are going through NATOs (Lixe the Luxemburg Air Force), other don't involve NATO but are done within the EU, and all are usually ad-hoc and also open to partner countries. (Like the Strategic Airlift Capability is a NATO initiative, but Sweden and Finland who aren't NATO countries are participating).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 14, 2017, 08:36:26 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2017, 08:31:05 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

What are they lifting?

Food I guess? Though airlift isn't a specialized task that I'd think of, it'd be like special forces, like Seal Team 6.

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2017, 08:31:05 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 14, 2017, 08:25:39 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 14, 2017, 08:23:54 am

Questions, do you also oppose the kind of joint european effort for some specialized tasks (airlift for exemple) that are being develloped?

Isn't there already NATO for that? Then again, I don't think Finland is in NATO. Of course, I'm just an American interjecting my opinion into European affairs.

Don't worry, if we didn't have any Americans interjecting themselves into European affairs this thread would be compromised 90% of me taking pot shots at Germans just to annoy Helgoland.

We only hold your intersections against you when we get upset.

Lol :D

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 08:31:26 am

Erkki. He was advocating European invasion of Lybia (and other neighbouring nations) a few pages ago. Now it kind of seems he wants *other* Europeans to invade Lybia (or wherever) for him. I find it darkly amusing.

That was Panzerfaust, not Erkki.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 14, 2017, 08:43:01 am

As a fellow Finn and fellow Finnish conscript - I'd be proud to defend Europe as a whole. I do feel like I have a lot in common with Europeans at the other end of the EU, I do wish for increased European military cooperation. But... yeah. I don't have a lot of faith the rest of the EU would actually defend us in case of attack. I don't have faith in our fellow Nordics helping out, either - Nordic military alliance is another common proposal, but historically it's never worked out. Sweden has, in the past, valued its neutrality over its neighbors.

In an ideal world Europe would band together for protection. Doubt we live in that world. NATO doesn't seem worthwhile either, especially with Trump in charge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2017, 08:47:39 am

I haven't read or heard much about that, Swedish media dont report much on such things. Probably because it doesn't go well with the Neutrality narrative, and there's so grander self delusion among Swedes than our neutrality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 14, 2017, 08:50:39 am

Yeah. Sweden is like the Switzerland of the North. Except with different reasons for wanting to be neutral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2017, 09:00:41 am

And also not really all that neutral any more. People and politicians using he neutrality principle and speaking as if we still haven't broken our 200 year streak of no war is something that annoys me to no end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 09:10:56 am

Quote from: scriver on June 14, 2017, 09:00:41 am

And also not really all that neutral any more. People and politicians using he neutrality principle and speaking as if we still haven't broken our 200 year streak of no war is something that annoys me to no end.

Spoiler: I have no strong feelings one way or the other (click to show/hide)

(http://theinfosphere.org/images/e/ea/Neutral_People.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 14, 2017, 10:04:21 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 14, 2017, 08:30:07 am

So, you're against military intervention abroad yet do want someone else to do a military intervention abroad on your behalf. Right.

By the way, I notice that you didn't answer whether you were part of your country's armed forces. I'm kind of curious about that, considering your hawk lobby advocacy: when you demand military interventions, is it actually you on the line of fire? Or are you asking to send someone else to solve the situation for you?

Common armed forces under one supernational leadership are in my opinion completely different from joint operations of independent nations and their forces. I am all for joint operations, such as ISAF(now Resolute Support) and peacekeeping as well as helping others when they ask for help, if it is legally and democratically decided.

I'll go if needed and asked to, of course. 10 years ago I pondered about going to Afghanistan but it didnt happen and I ended up in university.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 18, 2017, 07:24:10 am

In Portugal, fast spreading wildfire has cost the lives of at least 57 people. Several villages are surrounded by fire. The fires aren't under control yet, and death toll keeps rising. Authorities have declared national state of emergency. Portugal asked the EU for immediate help with firefighting. France and Spain have dispatched firefighting aircraft.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/situatie-zeer-zorgwekkend-na-bosbrand-portugal-dodental-opgelopen-tot-57~a4501407/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 07:29:09 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 18, 2017, 07:24:10 am

In Portugal, fast spreading wildfire has cost the lives of at least 57 people. Several villages are surrounded by fire. The fires aren't under control yet, and death toll keeps rising. Authorities have declared national state of emergency. Portugal asked the EU for immediate help with firefighting. France and Spain have dispatched firefighting aircraft.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/situatie-zeer-zorgwekkend-na-bosbrand-portugal-dodental-opgelopen-tot-57~a4501407/

Maybe as a compromise May could got and talk to the Portuguese victims of the fire that probably aren't mad at the tories that much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 12:32:58 pm

You'd be upgrading a hard Brexit to a cross-channel invasion Olympics, with 26 participants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 18, 2017, 01:00:22 pm

I knew they lost bad. Didn't know there was only 26 Tories left though  ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 18, 2017, 01:17:50 pm

In France, the landslide seems to be complete, after Macron's party also seems headed for an absolute majority in parliament, in the second election round. Exit polls give him 355 out of 577 seats in the Assemblée Nationale.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 01:18:50 pm

Theres also really, really low turnout, something like 36% and it's been declining over the years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 01:20:25 pm

It's not a supermajority though, so sadly we can't get out the Crown Jewels just quite yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 01:47:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 01:20:25 pm

It's not a supermajority though, so sadly we can't get out the Crown Jewels just quite yet.

Is there such a thing a supermajority though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 02:11:03 pm

Quote from: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 01:47:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 01:20:25 pm

It's not a supermajority though, so sadly we can't get out the Crown Jewels just quite yet.

Is there such a thing a supermajority though?

Depends on the parliaments procedures I guess. Theres probably a threshold for some things where they need x amount above the normal majority point to pass stuff, if they're past that threshold, it'd be a supermajority. However, as you've seen in the American Republican party, they may not neccesarily be cohesive. It sort of sounds like the En Marche! party is closer to the American party system where it's more of a big tent party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 03:28:04 pm

Wikipedia says 60%:

Quote

The final vote was submitted to Congress on 21 July 2008 and ratified by only one vote more than the required three-fifths (60%) majority of votes cast. The press drew attention to the aye vote of Jack Lang, who had broken with his party whip. The President of the National Assembly, Bernard Accoyer, also voted,[3] which defied the tradition whereby the President of a sitting abstains from voting.[4] Without those two votes the bill would not have passed.

Source. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_constitutional_law_of_23_July_2008)

E: Fixed typo. Also, LREM actually has a supermajority with their 361 seats out of 577 total.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 03:29:16 pm

Did MAcron said he wanted to edit the Constitution?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 04:48:30 pm

Their cohesiveness hasn't been tested yet and the party literally went from 0 to 361 in like two years, so, they still have to find their footing as a multimember party.

Quote from: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 03:29:16 pm

Did MAcron said he wanted to edit the Constitution?

Source?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 18, 2017, 04:49:47 pm

How do you want me to source a question?

Also it seems exit polls are anywhere between 355 and 405 so he has some margin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 04:54:01 pm

He might have said something about reforming the election system and I'm not sure if he ever said anything about doing something with the constitution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 07:24:23 pm

Theres been an incident where a vehichle collided with pedestrians and several casualties in london (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960). The exact circumstances behind it (there have been similar looking incidents where the person was just drunk or is mentally ill) are unknown, but they do have someone in custody.

It's starting to look like it's a case of someone targeting muslims as they were coming out of the neghborhood mosque there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 19, 2017, 05:34:13 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 18, 2017, 07:24:23 pm

Theres been an incident where a vehichle collided with pedestrians and several casualties in london (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960). The exact circumstances behind it (there have been similar looking incidents where the person was just drunk or is mentally ill) are unknown, but they do have someone in custody.

It's starting to look like it's a case of someone targeting muslims as they were coming out of the neghborhood mosque there.

Apparently some witnesses reported him as saying "I want to kill Muslims" as he exited his vehicle, so yeah. I hear it's being reated as a terror attack now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 19, 2017, 06:05:22 am

While that isn't surprising, it also isn't surprising for eye-witness testimony to be false in this situation (As they seem to often be in the situation of the suspect suddenly declaring extra guiltiness)

I'd wait until we get more details before we judge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2017, 10:56:26 am

Failed attack at the Champ Élyseés in Paris. A man drove into police officers, after which the car immediatly caught fire. The police managed to get the man out of the vehicle, but he succumbed to his injuries. According to the police, the man had a Kalasjnikov-rifle in his car. No police officers were injured.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on June 19, 2017, 11:00:20 am

Quote from: Neonivek on June 19, 2017, 06:05:22 am

While that isn't surprising, it also isn't surprising for eye-witness testimony to be false in this situation (As they seem to often be in the situation of the suspect suddenly declaring extra guiltiness)

I'd wait until we get more details before we judge.

Really? Cause lately, these sort of attackers (whether right-wingers, Islamists, or left-wingers) seem to be self-identifying pretty accurately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 19, 2017, 11:32:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 19, 2017, 10:56:26 am

Failed attack at the Champ Élyseés in Paris. A man drove into police officers, after which the car immediatly caught fire. The police managed to get the man out of the vehicle, but he succumbed to his injuries. According to the police, the man had a Kalasjnikov-rifle in his car. No police officers were injured.

Is it me or is the quality of jihadist degrading lately?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 19, 2017, 11:52:59 am

Aye, that's the weakness with the "mass media" approach to jihadism. If you appeal to enough people to kill and die in the name of (Insert literally ANY deity or leader here=, someone will be nuts enough to listen to you, that's almost guaranteed. But in the process you have pretty much forfeited any screening effort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on June 20, 2017, 05:26:22 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 19, 2017, 11:52:59 am

Aye, that's the weakness with the "mass media" approach to jihadism. If you appeal to enough people to kill and die in the name of (Insert literally ANY deity or leader here=, someone will be nuts enough to listen to you, that's almost guaranteed. But in the process you have pretty much forfeited any screening effort.

But for some bizarre reason this one was capable enough to acquire an assault rifle, but dumb enough to go and ram his vehicle against a police van.

If he had opened fire in a crowded street or building dozens of people would have died.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 20, 2017, 05:33:21 am

Quote from: Antioch on June 20, 2017, 05:26:22 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 19, 2017, 11:52:59 am

Aye, that's the weakness with the "mass media" approach to jihadism. If you appeal to enough people to kill and die in the name of (Insert literally ANY deity or leader here=, someone will be nuts enough to listen to you, that's almost guaranteed. But in the process you have pretty much forfeited any screening effort.

But for some bizarre reason this one was capable enough to acquire an assault rifle, but dumb enough to go and ram his vehicle against a police van.

If he had opened fire in a crowded street or building dozens of people would have died.

Two assault rifles, two handgun and apparently he had gas cylinders in his car.

Maybe he wanted to be a jihadi like all his pals, but really didn't want to hurt anyone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 20, 2017, 09:53:16 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 19, 2017, 11:32:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 19, 2017, 10:56:26 am

Failed attack at the Champ Élyseés in Paris. A man drove into police officers, after which the car immediatly caught fire. The police managed to get the man out of the vehicle, but he succumbed to his injuries. According to the police, the man had a Kalasjnikov-rifle in his car. No police officers were injured.

Is it me or is the quality of jihadist degrading lately?

I'd prefer them to stay at about this level of competence, at most.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 20, 2017, 03:03:23 pm

Brussels Central Station has been evacuated after a small explosion occured. It's not yet exactly clear what happened. Police do say that they have 'neutralized' a suspect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 21, 2017, 12:28:49 am

Quote from the Middle East thread:

Quote from: smjjames on June 20, 2017, 10:19:34 am

The US shot down another pro-regieme Iranian made drone. (http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/politics/us-syria-shoots-down-pro-regime-drone/index.html) Between this, the shooting down of that Syrian jet, the shooting down of a previous drone, and a report of a Russian jet buzzing an American jet by 5 feet and acting erratically while armed, it feels like the whole thing is slowly escalating, with the slowly part speeding up.

Didn't the buzzing incident happen in the Baltic Sea? There were plenty of similar cases in 2016 and 2015 as well, and this year is no exception when it comes to military activity in the area. If anything, it is only escalating further as there are ever larger excercises and more activity on both sides of the EU's Eastern border on the ground, at sea and in the air. Pictured below, the FiAF escorts and photographs Russian air force traffic in the narrow tunnel of international air space on the Gulf of Finland almost daily. It apparently isnt uncommon for the Russians to have FiAF F/A-18s on one side and Spanish F/A-18s or RAF Typhoons on the other.

Spoiler: Two Su-24s and a F/A-18 phographed from a another F/A-18 (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/YuKz6Lx.jpg)

Spoiler: B-52 and a Su-27 photographed from KC-135 tanker (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/7QIxL2t.jpg)

"Security vacuums" tend to be filled and all that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 21, 2017, 03:04:10 am

Brussles escaped a bloody attack yesterday. Police confirmed that the man who was shot at Brussels Central Station was carrying a nail bomb. He tried detonating it, but te detonator failed. He was then shot by the military. It is unknown if he died instantly, or if the died during the hours after that while explosives sqauad was examing him.
The man has been identified as a 37-year old man from Molenbeek. He was already known to the police, but not for radicalism. He was known as a criminal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 21, 2017, 03:24:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 21, 2017, 03:04:10 am

Brussles escaped a bloody attack yesterday. Police confirmed that the man who was shot at Brussels Central Station was carrying a nail bomb. He tried detonating it, but te detonator failed. He was then shot by the military. It is unknown if he died instantly, or if the died during the hours after that while explosives sqauad was examing him.
The man has been identified as a 37-year old man from Molenbeek. He was already known to the police, but not for radicalism. He was known as a criminal.

Ugh, I guess I'll stop complaining about soldiers in the streets then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 21, 2017, 04:22:50 am

Our national meteorological institute (KNMI) gave off a code red warning for my area. Fire-services are placed on high alert, while the military is keeping firefighting aircraft on standby. Unusual drought of the past weeks dramatically increased the chance for wildfires starting in the North-Brabant and Zeeland provinces.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 21, 2017, 07:48:59 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 21, 2017, 04:22:50 am

Our national meteorological institute (KNMI) gave off a code red warning for my area. Fire-services are placed on high alert, while the military is keeping firefighting aircraft on standby. Unusual drought of the past weeks dramatically increased the chance for wildfires starting in the North-Brabant and Zeeland provinces.

UNLEASH THE DIKES!

Sorry for the bad joke, lol

Quote from: Erkki on June 21, 2017, 12:28:49 am

Quote from the Middle East thread:

Quote from: smjjames on June 20, 2017, 10:19:34 am

The US shot down another pro-regieme Iranian made drone. (http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/politics/us-syria-shoots-down-pro-regime-drone/index.html) Between this, the shooting down of that Syrian jet, the shooting down of a previous drone, and a report of a Russian jet buzzing an American jet by 5 feet and acting erratically while armed, it feels like the whole thing is slowly escalating, with the slowly part speeding up.

Didn't the buzzing incident happen in the Baltic Sea? There were plenty of similar cases in 2016 and 2015 as well, and this year is no exception when it comes to military activity in the area. If anything, it is only escalating further as there are ever larger excercises and more activity on both sides of the EU's Eastern border on the ground, at sea and in the air. Pictured below, the FiAF escorts and photographs Russian air force traffic in the narrow tunnel of international air space on the Gulf of Finland almost daily. It apparently isnt uncommon for the Russians to have FiAF F/A-18s on one side and Spanish F/A-18s or RAF Typhoons on the other.

Spoiler: Two Su-24s and a F/A-18 phographed from a another F/A-18 (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/YuKz6Lx.jpg)

Spoiler: B-52 and a Su-27 photographed from KC-135 tanker (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/7QIxL2t.jpg)

"Security vacuums" tend to be filled and all that.

Yeah it was the Baltics. I know that encounters and escorts like you describe are routine, but 5 feet? That's 1.5 meters in metric btw. It was also going too fast and behaving erratically, that, to me, isn't rendezvousing and escorting, it's being outright reckless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 21, 2017, 08:22:23 am

Well the UK (Well Britain) does have a 76 approval rating on Homosexuals (and a 18% disapproval rating).

Does make me wonder why they aren't allowed on children's television...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 21, 2017, 08:25:37 am

Quote from: Neonivek on June 21, 2017, 08:22:23 am

Well the UK (Well Britain) does have a 76 approval rating on Homosexuals (and a 18% disapproval rating).

Does make me wonder why they aren't allowed on children's television...

Not sure what that has to do with any of the recent stuff?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 21, 2017, 08:26:31 am

Sorry homonyms

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Erkki on June 21, 2017, 09:03:19 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 21, 2017, 07:48:59 am

Yeah it was the Baltics. I know that encounters and escorts like you describe are routine, but 5 feet? That's 1.5 meters in metric btw. It was also going too fast and behaving erratically, that, to me, isn't rendezvousing and escorting, it's being outright reckless.

What is very worrying is that they werent routine even during the Cold War(over the Baltic Sea and generally in Northern Europe, I mean), but have become that only recently. Looks like there are several cases reported for today too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 25, 2017, 12:14:29 pm

Today, over 50000 people from Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands formed a 90km long human chain between the Belgian Tihange nuclear power plant, and the German city of Aachen, to express their concern about the 40 year old plant.

The protestors are alarmed by the recent study that showed the reactor walls of Tihange-2, one of the plant's 3 reactors, to have hairline cracks.
Combined with an increasing amount of failures in the reactor, the fear amongst those living in the region of an incident, which would render the area uninhabitable for decades, is increasing.

The Belgian government however, maintains it's position, claiming the power plant is safe.
The Tihange plant was built in 1975, and was originally scheduled to be closed down in 2015.
The plant's 3 reactors account for about one quarter of the total Belgian electricity consumption.
Some years ago, Belgian PM Di Rupo decided the plant can remain in operation until 2023.
The Belgian state has a huge economic interest in the plant. It is calculated that the plant makes 1 million euro every day, for the Belgian treasury.
According to the Belgian government, closing down the plant would also mean that the nation's electricity supply would become unreliable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 25, 2017, 02:49:34 pm

Dutch cameraman Bram Janssen has been arrested in Istanbul for filming at the Gay Pride in Istanbul.
In 2015, the Gay Pride has been banned in Turkey. Today, when LGBT Turks had ignored the ban and went out into the streets of Istanbul, police used brute force to disperse them, using batons, tear gas and rubber bullets. Many LGBT protestors have been arrested.

Dutch national news reporter Lucas Waagmeester, who was also present, reports that despite Janssen showing the police his Turkish Press Card, he was arrested by the police. Our ministry of foreign affairs reports it is currently trying to get into contact with Janssen, so they can offer him diplomatic assistance.

Janssen has worked in Istanbul since 2016 for the American press agency AP. Before that, he spent two years in Iraq, and he regularily returns there, ever since the liberation battle of Mosul has begun. He won the Dutch Silver Camera award in the category 'international news', as well as the US Pulitzer prize in the category 'Breaking News', for his reporting of the situation in Mosul.

Let's hope Turkey does not still hold a grudge for our deportation of their minister, or the poor guy might be in for an unpleasant ride.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on June 25, 2017, 04:33:58 pm

Don't worry their totally not a brutal dictatorship now! some guy on the internet said so!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 25, 2017, 05:38:28 pm

Camera guy has already been released.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 25, 2017, 05:57:02 pm

"Okay guys we're banning your pride parade because we can't guarantee your safety from radicals. And if you hold one anyway, we're going to hurt you."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 27, 2017, 04:18:11 am

EDIT: OOPS this was supposed to go in the IS thread. Moved it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 27, 2017, 06:58:13 am

Quote from: scriver on June 25, 2017, 05:57:02 pm

"Okay guys we're banning your pride parade because we can't guarantee your safety from radicals. And if you hold one anyway, we're going to hurt you."

Is "protection from radicals" really their excuse for banning the pride parade?

Goodness... What would LBGTQ people know about standing up to discrimination and people who would do them harm?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 27, 2017, 07:20:18 am

Yes, that really is the argument that was used 3 years ago to ban the Gay Pride. The government 'could not guarantee their safety from extreme nationalist groups'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on June 27, 2017, 07:25:23 am

While that is extremely dubious and smells of Russia's "Propaganda think of the children" law...

How legitimate are they being?

My initial thoughts are... not legitimate at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 29, 2017, 02:42:02 pm

UNHCR data (http://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean/location/5205) about the """"""refugees"""""" coming across the Med to Italy during 2017. Interesting highlights:

• 75.3% are adult males
• Only 1.4% are Syrian
• A further 1.2% are Iraqi, and 2.8% are Eritrean
• Guinea is the most common point of origin
• Bangladesh is the third most common point of origin, some 7000 km from Italy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 29, 2017, 09:01:18 pm

I'm just gonna quote the article summary here for the link: French President Emmanuel Macron will break with tradition and not give a news conference on Bastille Day because his "complex thoughts" may prove too much for journalists, reports say. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40452785)

Is that like, an euphenism for 'rambles off a lot'? lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 29, 2017, 10:39:41 pm

Silly man.

I mean he's identified he has an issue with brevity, but he's el presidente so there must be some PR people he can talk to about improving on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 29, 2017, 10:46:58 pm

Or even speech coaches or other people who can help him work on summarizing his answers. Theres no lack of people who would be able to help him refine that.

Though I dare him to get more wordy than Obama the orator, lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on June 30, 2017, 12:43:09 am

It sounds like he's trying to say that he's too smart for the average Frenchman to comprehend his thoughts on the subject.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 30, 2017, 05:18:08 am

The leader of the free West, Angela Merkel, voted against gay marriage. Not that it mattered. Legalization of gay marriage in Germany has just been passed in parliament with a large majority.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 30, 2017, 05:23:14 am

From what I understand it won't actually come into effect for quite a while...and after the elections. Convenient!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 30, 2017, 05:28:44 am

Meanwhile in Serbia, a country heavily influenced by the (anti-gay) Russian orthodox church, and where more than half of the population regards homosexuality as a disease, Ana Brnabic has become the first lesbian PM of the country. It did take two days of debating in parliament to get her confirmed into office, with 157 votes in favour, and 55 against.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Moddan on June 30, 2017, 08:08:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 30, 2017, 05:18:08 am

The leader of the free West, Angela Merkel, voted against gay marriage. Not that it mattered. Legalization of gay marriage in Germany has just been passed in parliament with a large majority.

She voted against it to balance out the fact that she made it possible in the first place with removing the whip for this decision. She stated that this is a conscience thing and there is no guideline for her party members on this one. Personally voting against it is probably because of her Christian background and to appease a bit those who are against it. Typical example of her ambiguity instinct that kept her in power for so long.

It is also a clever move to allow this to happen now because elections are very close and this would have been a useful campaign theme for her opponents. I guess she'll keep on winning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 30, 2017, 09:06:00 am

Actually she tried to maneuver the issue to after the election. The SPD forced her hand after the Greens and Liberals had provided the opportunity to do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 30, 2017, 11:02:31 am

The German Bundestag approved of a new law that was proposed in march by Minister of Justice Heiko Maas. From september of this year onwards, social media companies like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and others can be fined up to a maximum of 50 million euros when they do not remove messages that spread hatred within 24 hours after being reported.

There is a lot of criticism on the new law, with opponents claiming it is in contradiction of the right to freedom of speech.

The new law was proposed, after a study showed that currently, internet companies often ignore reports of hatespeech.
For example, the research showed that Twitter only removed 1% of messages that were reported by users to be breaking the law.
Facebook removed 39%, YouTube 90%.

Worldwide, Germany has amongst the most strict laws about libel, and publicly inciting violence. Denying the Holocaust can lead to hefty prison sentences. Online however, these laws are rarely effected.

The new law is supposed to change that. If messages that 'are clearly in breach of the law', - not only hatespeech, but also libel and inciting violence - are not removed within 24 hours after being reported, the internet company at first faces a fine of 5 million euros. With further neglicence, the fine can increase up to 50 million euros.
For messages that are offensive, yet not directly in breach of law, the removal term is 7 days instead.
The law is intended specifically for internet companies that have more than 2 million (German) users. Facebook has about 30 million users in Germany.

Human rights organisations, and internet freedom organisations condemn censorship, and warn that the law can have the unwanted side effect of internet providers removing harmless content unnescessarily, out of fear for fines. They say this can lead to 'unpredictable online censorship', when tech companies themselves have to start deciding which messages are appropriate, and which aren't.
Facebook itself also warned that 'threatening with excessive fines will only contribute to the removal of legal content'.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/haatbericht-niet-op-tijd-verwijderd-techbedrijf-in-duitsland-riskeert-boete-van-50-miljoen-euro~a4503691/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 30, 2017, 11:27:40 am

Inb4 Twitter gets fined for not moderating Trump's twitter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on June 30, 2017, 12:51:51 pm

Completely stupid, to be honest. The only thing that should be removed is things like child porn, and direct calls to violence. Germany's hate speech laws are far too broad, and in many instances I feel violates freedom of expression.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 30, 2017, 01:05:43 pm

Good job Germany, you found a way to not just fuck up your own country's internet but to potentially spread policies that fuck up everybody's internet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 30, 2017, 01:34:08 pm

Inflicting internal issues on the rest of the West through a variety of controversial, high-energy and proactive means is basically Germany's thing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on June 30, 2017, 06:59:02 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on June 30, 2017, 12:51:51 pm

Germany's hate speech laws are far too broad, and in many instances I feel violates freedom of expression.

Germans feel differently, and in fact many here consider the US approach to the matter schizophrenic at the very least. 'Freedom of expression' is not a thing that falls from heaven, for all of mankind to hold it sacred - it is, and can only be, determined by societal consensus.

TL;DR: There's the 'Murrica way, and there's what folks over here hold to be the right way. They often coincide, but when they do not, neither is automatically superior.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 30, 2017, 07:10:27 pm

I love how enlightenment philosophy is now just "the Murrica way" which right and proper Germans ought to reject and set as the standard for every other nation in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 30, 2017, 08:24:50 pm

Well one the things that the article mentioned was that corporations have 7 days to remove offensive but not illegal speech before the fine, which is what I issue with.

Where do you draw the line on that? What I find offensive is going to be different from what other folks find offensive, which is going to be different what different other folks find offensive, and so on.

"Something this person posted offended me! I demand you take it down or I'll go to the authorities who might fine you!"

"Okay, Mrs. Whitehouse, done."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 30, 2017, 08:43:34 pm

As Hector said, that's the problem, if you don't follow the legal definition, trying to define what is offensive (unless you follow the really obvious stuff) isn't going to work because you're working with so many different definitions.

Also, a thought occured to me, does Germany want those companies to enforce it on EVERYTHING regardless of point of origin (if point of origin can be proved) or do they want to enforce it only on things originating in Germany (again, if point of origin can be proved)? Because if they want those companies to enforce it on everything, won't they run into problems if the point of origin is outside Germany?

Obviously enforcing their Terms of Service is one thing, but this sounds like it'd go beyond the ToS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Alastar on July 01, 2017, 04:31:09 am

As a German, I'm not in favour; our existing laws regarding this are already excessive and do more harm than good. There might be a massive chilling effect to consider, where much that wouldn't be covered by the law is taken down just to be safe. I also think that it's not good to take away the voice of the disaffected, regardless how objectionable some of their views might be to most... if something can't be said, it can't be refuted. Making sure that these people can only voice their thoughts in an echo chamber where they're surrounded by like-minded people will only breed radicalism.

Last not least, our institutions are also ramping up soft pressure to enforce "acceptable" political positions. Fringe political parties and other "undesirables" can expect to be mired in malicious red tape if they try to get anything organised in the open through the proper channels. This is widely accepted, occasionally even praised in the press. While there is no ruthless crushing of dissent, the overall atmosphere is a bit stifling and does imo not reflect the liberal values modern Germany professes to have. Not healthy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 01, 2017, 08:28:00 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 30, 2017, 07:10:27 pm

I love how enlightenment philosophy is now just "the Murrica way" which right and proper Germans ought to reject and set as the standard for every other nation in Europe.

Funny how a particular interpretation of certain ideals that is currently popular in the US is now the entirety of Enlightenment philosophy... I'd also like to point out that at no point was I talking about any country other than Germany. What, next you're going to tell me that Germany is not a Rechtsstaat because we lack juries and they're obviously vital to the rule of law? Please. We can have a debate about the limits free speech ought to have - and IMO the US uses a pretty radical interpretation - but don't act like the US version is a priori the only valid one.

Regarding the 'remove offensive content within seven days' bit: Without having delved further into the topic, I'd think that the 24 hour deadline applies to stuff that's obviously a violation of existing law - showing the Hitler salute, for example - and the seven day one applies to stuff that's illegal, but not entirely obviously so.
The real issue is that we're essentially outsourcing part of law enforcement to private companies. What we'd really need would be a federal bureau for evaluation of possibly illegal content, and then a quick (less than an hour, I'd say) way to get that bureau's decision implemented within the company in question. Long-term day-dream: Make big companies semi-public institutions...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on July 01, 2017, 11:50:12 am

Well, at least Germany isn't Canada, who are now claiming that they have the right to fuck with what Google shows to people outside of Canada.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 01, 2017, 10:43:22 pm

They've had it with Google showing criminal outsiders the locations of their Strategic Maple Syrup Reserves. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 02, 2017, 03:38:42 am

Quote from: scriver on July 01, 2017, 10:43:22 pm

They've had it with Google showing criminal outsiders the locations of their Strategic Maple Syrup Reserves.

Well, if those criminals would just stop stealing it for their pancakes, they wouldn't have to worry.  I mean, what size pancake even needs 3000 tonnes of maple syrup? 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 02, 2017, 06:16:14 am

The best kind. The global pan-cake.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2017, 10:44:52 am

New Klemen Sakonja (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJZfuJdycGc) (guy who did putin putout)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 03, 2017, 04:19:32 pm

The city of Amsterdam is opening the first strict-regime refugee center for refugees that misbehaved.
An old juvenile detention center will be renovated and, starting this autumn, will provide a location to house 50 refugees that have been found to be agressive, or anti-gay, or broke the rules of their previous refugee shelter. The refugees will have a sober and strict accomodation. They will not be locked inside though, they will be allowed to move in and out freely, outside of strict daytime program hours. The location is not meant to house refugees who have been convicted of a crime, nor will it be used to house refugees with pshychological problems.

The idea behind this is not so much as to punish the bad apples, but rather to make the normal refugee centers a safer place for the well-behaved, and for gays.
Incidents over the past years with violence against gays in refugee centers led the national coordinator for refugees to say that the Dutch state cannot guarantee the safety of gays in Dutch refugee centers.
This first led to a plan to house gay refugees in special gay locations. This plan was cut down by furious protest of gay rights organisations, saying that it's not right to single out the gays for the bad behaviour of others, even if it is for their own protection.
Hence the new plan. The government plans to open a handful more of these locations around the country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2017, 04:33:08 pm

Not sure what to think about that, but there certainly needs to be a way to deal with the troublemakers who have broken rules but haven't committed a crime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on July 03, 2017, 04:41:39 pm

It seems open to abuse - refugees could be sent away for nothing more than annoying whoever is in charge and it's still pretty much a punishment because it's forced relocation where people are separated from friends/family/home (or something like it).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 03, 2017, 04:48:20 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on July 03, 2017, 04:41:39 pm

It seems open to abuse - refugees could be sent away for nothing more than annoying whoever is in charge and it's still pretty much a punishment because it's forced relocation where people are separated from friends/family/home (or something like it).

Well, it is a kind of punishment. The issue is how do you deal with things which are bad, but aren't bad enough that you bother to get the judicial system involved. In a way, it's similar to what would happen with a bully in a school.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 04, 2017, 02:43:16 am

In the new election program for Merkel's CDU, the US has been degraded from being 'Germany's closest friend' to 'Germany's most important partner', and is also no longer mentioned as 'the cornerstone of Germany's international relations'.
This signifies the cooling of relations between Merkel and the US president, after Trump has sneered multiple times at Merkel for taking in refugees, and calling her policy insane. The cooling of relations was already apparent earlier, when German minister of foreign affairs Sigmar Gabriel said that Trump endangers the peace in Europe.
Polls made by Pew Research Center showed last week that currently, 35% of Germans has a positive image of the US. At the end of Obama's presidency, it was still 57%.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2017, 03:47:51 am

Macron apparently proposed a program of widespread political reform, including reducing the number of MP by a third, switching to proportional and imposing term limits. I don't really get it TBH, it wasn't a priority for him in his campaign, and those reforms wouldn't strengthen his hand (LRM got 60% of the seats, but only 32% of first-round vote and 49% of second-round vote) so it seems a weird thing to burn political capital on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on July 04, 2017, 07:38:56 am

Legacy-building or genuine concern for the country. The latter does occur on occasion, even though it's rare in the modern age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2017, 08:07:06 am

Quote from: Helgoland on July 04, 2017, 07:38:56 am

Legacy-building or genuine concern for the country. The latter does occur on occasion, even though it's rare in the modern age.

Yeah, but it's just weird that it wasn't really a plank of his platform pre-election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 04, 2017, 08:16:14 am

Pretty sure Macron talked about political reform, even if it wasn't part of his partys platform.

Though with the size reduction of the Parliament, one has to wonder which part? Is he going to do everybody that isn't part of his party (which would be an all too obvious power grab)? Or is he going to do some sort of random thing? Theres going to be losers from his party if he does something that won't look like a power grab and those newly elected members aren't going to want to be booted from their new job so soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2017, 08:20:38 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 04, 2017, 08:16:14 am

Pretty sure Macron talked about political reform, even if it wasn't part of his partys platform.

Though with the size reduction of the Parliament, one has to wonder which part? Is he going to do everybody that isn't part of his party (which would be an all too obvious power grab)? Or is he going to do some sort of random thing? Theres going to be losers from his party if he does something that won't look like a power grab and those newly elected members aren't going to want to be booted from their new job so soon.

I guess they'd just wait for the next election for the reduction in seat number to take place.

More concerning is that he wants some legislative acts to be able to pass with only a comittee vote, not a full vote. He also threaten a referendum on the matter f the Assemblée Nationale doesn't reform itself according to his wishes within a year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 05, 2017, 06:56:54 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/trumps-plans-to-praise-walesa-irk-polish-government/ heh, they shoulda known that Trump is the kind that likes to shake things up and (sometimes) doesn't give a damn about diplomatic norms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 06, 2017, 08:28:55 am

The Belgian police is looking for two terrorism suspects. After a raid at a garage box in Anderlecht past tuesday night, where police found three AK47s, 15 AK magazines, a riot gun, 3 pistols with ammo, radios, bulletproof vests, a police flashing light, and two police uniforms, the police fears that the raid may have spooked the fugitives and trigger them to carry out a terrorist attack in a hurry.

French police, cooperating with the Belgian investigation say that they believe the terror cell was planning another attack in France, on the 14th of july.
In Belgium, two brothers were arrested, and in France, one person was arrested that had been in contact with the two Belgian suspects.

However, it is believed that not all members of the terror cell have been arrested. One or two are still at large. The Belgian justice department fears a repeat of what happened on 22th of march 2016. The attack of Zaventem was carried out in a hurry, after police had discovered a safehouse and arrested one suspect.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/belgen-zoeken-nog-terreurverdachten-na-inval-vrees-voor-versnelde-uitvoering-aanslag~a4504925/
https://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/parket-zoekt-nog-terreurverdachten

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 06, 2017, 08:42:26 am

Ouch, a terror attack in France on the 14th would have been terrible (well, any terror attack is terrible, but on France's equivalent of independence day is doubly terrible), especially since the US President would be around and they'd be equally happy to ruin his day as well.

In what I'm sure is some schadenfreude for you guys, Trump was unable to find a luxury hotel for the G20 because... they had all been booked by others (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/340790-trump-couldnt-find-hotel-to-book-for-g-20-report), oops, heh. I suppose he couldn't share with Putin, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 06, 2017, 09:35:00 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 06, 2017, 08:42:26 am

Ouch, a terror attack in France on the 14th would have been terrible (well, any terror attack is terrible, but on France's equivalent of independence day is doubly terrible),

Last year's terror attack in Nice was on the 14th of july already  :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 06, 2017, 12:18:38 pm

France announce climate plan, including phasing out coal for electricity by the end of Macron's term ( 2022, but it's only 10% of total generation) and banning all fossil-powered car by 2040.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 07, 2017, 02:31:04 am

The Dutch government has again denied access to a Turkish politician.
Turkish vice-premier Tugrul Türkes wants to come to Apeldoorn next week, to speak at the remembrance ceremony for the failed coup 1 year ago, that is being organised there coming tuesday.

The Dutch government has stated that 'the coup was an injustifiable assault on Turkish democratic institutions. In that, we are in the same line as Turkey. However, given the current situation in Turkey, and the bilateral relation between our two countries, we do not find it desirable for Türkes, or any other member of Turkish government, to come to the Netherlands.

Now we have to wait and see if Türkes is going to try and enter the country anyways, like their minister did back during the referendum campaign.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 07, 2017, 03:49:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 07, 2017, 02:31:04 am

The Dutch government has again denied access to a Turkish politician.
Turkish vice-premier Tugrul Türkes wants to come to Apeldoorn next week, to speak at the remembrance ceremony for the failed coup 1 year ago, that is being organised there coming tuesday.

The Dutch government has stated that 'the coup was an injustifiable assault on Turkish democratic institutions. In that, we are in the same line as Turkey. However, given the current situation in Turkey, and the bilateral relation between our two countries, we do not find it desirable for Türkes, or any other member of Turkish government, to come to the Netherlands.

Now we have to wait and see if Türkes is going to try and enter the country anyways, like their minister did back during the referendum campaign.

The destruction of the Turkish democracy was ongoing long before the coup ever happened. Gulen for example was branded as head of a terrorist organisation 6 months before this coup and HDP member of parliament were stripped of their immunity and persecuted. There were also already purges going on of judges, police officers and teachers.

So I think that coup was the last hope of democracy actually being restored.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2017, 05:21:08 am

Quote from: Antioch on July 07, 2017, 03:49:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 07, 2017, 02:31:04 am

The Dutch government has again denied access to a Turkish politician.
Turkish vice-premier Tugrul Türkes wants to come to Apeldoorn next week, to speak at the remembrance ceremony for the failed coup 1 year ago, that is being organised there coming tuesday.

The Dutch government has stated that 'the coup was an injustifiable assault on Turkish democratic institutions. In that, we are in the same line as Turkey. However, given the current situation in Turkey, and the bilateral relation between our two countries, we do not find it desirable for Türkes, or any other member of Turkish government, to come to the Netherlands.

Now we have to wait and see if Türkes is going to try and enter the country anyways, like their minister did back during the referendum campaign.

The destruction of the Turkish democracy was ongoing long before the coup ever happened. Gulen for example was branded as head of a terrorist organisation 6 months before this coup and HDP member of parliament were stripped of their immunity and persecuted. There were also already purges going on of judges, police officers and teachers.

So I think that coup was the last hope of democracy actually being restored.

You talk the talk about fighting for democracy in Turkey, but ....at Thanksgiving did you actually join the boycott or did you ate roast turkey instead with all the other sheeple?

;-)

fun fact: In Portuguese turkey is called "peru"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 07, 2017, 07:06:58 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2017, 05:21:08 am

Quote from: Antioch on July 07, 2017, 03:49:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 07, 2017, 02:31:04 am

The Dutch government has again denied access to a Turkish politician.
Turkish vice-premier Tugrul Türkes wants to come to Apeldoorn next week, to speak at the remembrance ceremony for the failed coup 1 year ago, that is being organised there coming tuesday.

The Dutch government has stated that 'the coup was an injustifiable assault on Turkish democratic institutions. In that, we are in the same line as Turkey. However, given the current situation in Turkey, and the bilateral relation between our two countries, we do not find it desirable for Türkes, or any other member of Turkish government, to come to the Netherlands.

Now we have to wait and see if Türkes is going to try and enter the country anyways, like their minister did back during the referendum campaign.

The destruction of the Turkish democracy was ongoing long before the coup ever happened. Gulen for example was branded as head of a terrorist organisation 6 months before this coup and HDP member of parliament were stripped of their immunity and persecuted. There were also already purges going on of judges, police officers and teachers.

So I think that coup was the last hope of democracy actually being restored.

You talk the talk about fighting for democracy in Turkey, but ....at Thanksgiving did you actually join the boycott or did you ate roast turkey instead with all the other sheeple?

;-)

fun fact: In Portuguese turkey is called "peru"

I have never eaten roast Turkey in my life. Though I did go to the Turkish supermarket to buy Turkish bread because it makes for awesome hamburger buns, and I did accept the delicious meatballs my parents neighbour made to celebrate the end of Ramadan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2017, 12:52:00 pm

I was about to correct you that the end of Ramadan was called Eid, but it's Eid-somethingorother, so I decided against it.

Turkey I like. It's really dry, and for some reason I like really dry meat. At least light meat, the dark meat is a bit different.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TempAcc on July 07, 2017, 02:26:13 pm

I too like dry-er meats, but I hate turkey, its like Im eating some poorly evolved dinosaur.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2017, 02:35:31 pm

Quote from: TempAcc on July 07, 2017, 02:26:13 pm

I too like dry-er meats, but I hate turkey, its like Im eating some poorly evolved dinosaur.

(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111108.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 09, 2017, 08:22:42 pm

tfw in the midst of everyone shitting themselves over Trump and Le Pen trying to become dictators Macron walks in and literally makes himself King of France (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEVgJyRWsAAKlaa.jpg:large)

truly the world's first meme president

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 09, 2017, 08:25:02 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 09, 2017, 08:22:42 pm

tfw in the midst of everyone shitting themselves over Trump and Le Pen trying to become dictators Macron walks in and literally makes himself King of France (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEVgJyRWsAAKlaa.jpg:large)

truly the world's first meme president

How big is their parliament exactly? i can see how if it was too big it could cause problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cthulhu on July 09, 2017, 08:31:49 pm

I mean it's not the only thing (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEBy3HnXsAApQeH.jpg:large)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 09, 2017, 08:34:23 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 09, 2017, 08:25:02 pm

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 09, 2017, 08:22:42 pm

tfw in the midst of everyone shitting themselves over Trump and Le Pen trying to become dictators Macron walks in and literally makes himself King of France (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEVgJyRWsAAKlaa.jpg:large)

truly the world's first meme president

How big is their parliament exactly? i can see how if it was two big it could cause problems.

Wiki says 925, which is 348 Senators (upper house) and 577 deputies (lower house). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Parliament) So, uh, I can see where reducing the size of the legislature would be an idea.

The bit about the Parliament not legislating and instead 'evaluate' seems kind of strange.

Quote from: Cthulhu on July 09, 2017, 08:31:49 pm

I mean it's not the only thing (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEBy3HnXsAApQeH.jpg:large)

Love the 'mind blown' image sequence there.

I hope you guys didn't accidentially elect neo-Napoleon, heh. At least he's willing to give it a referendum if it comes to that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 10, 2017, 04:26:37 am

Man I had such high hopes for Macron.

Turns out he quite a dangerous personality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 10, 2017, 07:00:44 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 10, 2017, 06:43:03 am

Jesus, that could be bad.

The reduction in seats isn't an issue. Nor is proportional representation, but moving to evaluation's not that great.

Macaron, you were supposed to destroy the authoritarians, not join them!

It's not entirely clear what he means by that.

From what I gathered from here (http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/presidentielles/2017/05/07/35003-20170507ARTFIG00189-assemblee-nationale-macron-veut-introduire-une-dose-de-proportionnelle.php):

-Limit benefits to MP, ban them from working as consultants during their term, ban them from hiring family members, limit them to three consecutive terms, ban people with a criminal records from competing in elections.

-Make the "accelerated procedure" standard. Right now, a law can ping back and forth between the upper and lower houses as amendments are added and added and added (Adding amendment is the French equivalent of the filibuster. The absolute record being the 137 537 amendments proposed by the socialists and communists to block energy liberalization in 2006). The accelerated procedure exist already, and basically has a joint commission draft a compromise, which is then offered to the lower house which can either accept it, accept its last version, or turn it down, but cannot amend it. I'm not 100% sure what that imply as I'm no expert.

-Have the deputies spend part of the year voting new law, and part of the year evaluating existing law and amend it. No idea what that would mean in practice.

-Implement a "dose of proportionality" in the election system. That's the satisfy his MoDem allies, who really like proportionnal because they're the eternal third place party (think LibDem, except more useless).

-Introduce yearly "State-of-the-union" style speeches.

-Lower public subsidies for political parties who don't have a balanced gender ratio among their candidates.

-Create "innovative ways to evaluate the legislative and parlementary work by citizen participation", which, as far as I can tell, is a stimulus program for the buzzword industry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2017, 07:11:29 am

Quote

ban them from working as consultants during their term

Ahh so they have to be independently wealthy... O-o

*Checks their wages*

Nevermind... Can I be a MP? I want a 200,000 dollar salary.

Err wait that is US... in the UK it is around 100,000 dollars. Yet this is France so... 15,000 dollars? No that isn't correct... OHHHH per month! So 180,000 dollars.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 10, 2017, 07:30:19 am

Well, they get about 78000 euros of salarys (60000 post-tax). But they also get a monthly "Indemnité représentative de frais de mandat" of about 5300 euros. (Roughly "Indemnity for the costs of a term") This is supposed to cover the cost of being an MP (maintaing an office in the district and the like) but can be used as they want, isn't taxed and, since an amendment was voted in 2002, the use made of that money cannot be checked by the tax office. Several MPs, including JM Le Pen have used it to pay their mortgage for exemple.

Then you have some extraneous advantages, like free first class travel on train, a certain number of free plane trips (80 to and from the district per year, 12 worldwide), etc etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2017, 07:32:39 am

Yeah I can see why their "business expense account" is considered under their salary when they can often use it to pay their ordinary expenses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 10, 2017, 08:16:56 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 10, 2017, 07:00:44 am

-Introduce yearly "State-of-the-union" style speeches.

If he's trying to copy the US on this one, it's not mandated by law, but by sheer tradition (like so much else, heh). It's been done since George Washington.

It'd probably be more palatable for the French if he started making an annual practice out of it rather than mandate it.

Edit: Actually, While it's certainly been done since Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Union#History), it was sent in written form from Jefforson until Wilson in 1913, and it was variously sent in written and televised/radio form in the 20th century. So, it being televised and a speech consistently is a much more recent development.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 10, 2017, 08:45:38 am

Well, it doesn't say he wants to mandate it by law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 10, 2017, 08:47:00 am

What about the Bastille Day interview? Isn't that a kind of state of the union type dealio?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 10, 2017, 08:50:13 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 10, 2017, 08:47:00 am

What about the Bastille Day interview? Isn't that a kind of state of the union type dealio?

That's a TV interview, not a speech. He wants to address Congress (that is, the two houses of parliament) in a speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 12, 2017, 03:27:05 am

In the Netherlands, it is starting to show that increasing the retirement age might have negative consequences for the state budget.
Sick leaves, and consequent disabilty are rapidly increasing with the older workforce doing physically hard jobs like elderly care, bricklaying and metalworking.
People might get older and older, that doesn't mean that our backs get more resistant to wear and tear.
Where the government had hoped that increasing the retirement age would be a netto benefit to the treasury, they are now starting to see that disablity checks are expensive. Employers are complaining too, because the first two years of sick leave, the company has to pay the welfare (70% of last earned yearly wage, same as consequent disabilty pay by the state)

There's more and more voices sounding in the public debate that physical labour should be excluded from increasing the retirement age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 12, 2017, 02:45:51 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on July 10, 2017, 07:11:29 am

Quote

ban them from working as consultants during their term

Ahh so they have to be independently wealthy... O-o
*Checks their wages*
Nevermind... Can I be a MP? I want a 200,000 dollar salary.
Err wait that is US... in the UK it is around 100,000 dollars. Yet this is France so... 15,000 dollars? No that isn't correct... OHHHH per month! So 180,000 dollars.

POI, UK it's 74,000 sterling, not sure what that is in dollarydoos. French MPs make 169,568 eurodollarydoos a year; European MEPs make about 96,000 eurodollarydoos. IIRC, Italy's MPs get the most money if you don't factor in oil money countries
source on dollarydata (http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/12/who-are-the-best-paid-mps-in-the-eu)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 12, 2017, 09:56:59 pm

How long have the U.K. parliamentarians been getting their 74k? I remember being quite furious while I was still there - a little over 3.25 years now - when they got that 11% pay rise, which I think took them to 74k.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2017, 05:35:53 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 12, 2017, 09:56:59 pm

How long have the U.K. parliamentarians been getting their 74k? I remember being quite furious while I was still there - a little over 3.25 years now - when they got that 11% pay rise, which I think took them to 74k.

It looks like Cameron was just bribing rebellious MPs into docility in 2015 with the 10-11% pay rise (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/16/ipsa-goes-ahead-with-10-pay-rise-for-mps)

Quote

Downing Street has refused to say whether Cameron will donate the extra cash to charity, insisting that how he spends his salary is “a private matter”.

Wtf
How the hell did Cameron get to approve his own pay rise, that's bang out of order

So yeah they've been getting their 74k since 2015, but they got another increase to 76k this year (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-pay-rise-salary-commons-parliament-1000-public-sector-worker-pay-politicians-a7476601.html). You know, I'd think 76k is reasonable for an MP, since running their own offices, employing people to help them, renting a house in their constituency and Westminster in addition to traveling to and fro gets extremely expensive, but they get to claim expenses for all of that and pocket the money. To say nothing of the expenses scandal, that's the problem with professional politicians; you don't want to put someone in charge of fixing your problems when their primary motive for serving you, is to make themselves wealthier

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2017, 07:08:29 am

Political parties were a mistake

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 13, 2017, 08:35:50 am

That's the greatest take on that situation ever. I love it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 13, 2017, 10:11:46 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 13, 2017, 07:50:35 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2017, 07:08:29 am

Political parties were a mistake

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/Ynjj2Xz.png)

Lol. Also nice touch with the blue and red shirts, if intentional.

Technically the parties began almost right away with people liking Washington's policies vs those who disagreed with his policies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 13, 2017, 12:09:47 pm

Your whole nation started with a single party.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Boston Tea Party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 13, 2017, 12:15:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 13, 2017, 10:11:46 am

Technically the parties began almost right away with people liking Washington's policies vs those who disagreed with his policies.

In all practical terms it began before that, with the informal federalists and antifederalists.

There were also all those weirdos, like the ones that wanted an American monarchy of one stripe or another.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 13, 2017, 12:37:29 pm

France and Germany have agreed that they are going to develop a new, European fighter jet. Any EU country is welcome to join in the effort.
With this they like to show determination in revitalizing EU unification and cooperation.

I guess the JSF just doesn't deliver as promised. Lessons learned there, US aerospace indstry is unreliable, at best. Can't stick to a timeline, can't stick to a budget.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 13, 2017, 12:48:04 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 13, 2017, 12:37:29 pm

France and Germany have agreed that they are going to develop a new, European fighter jet. Any EU country is welcome to join in the effort.
With this they like to show determination in revitalizing EU unification and cooperation.

I guess the JSF just doesn't deliver as promised. Lessons learned there, US aerospace indstry is unreliable, at best. Can't stick to a timeline, can't stick to a budget.

You don't think you'll end up with the same problems?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 13, 2017, 01:01:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 13, 2017, 12:37:29 pm

France and Germany have agreed that they are going to develop a new, European fighter jet. Any EU country is welcome to join in the effort.
With this they like to show determination in revitalizing EU unification and cooperation.

I guess the JSF just doesn't deliver as promised. Lessons learned there, US aerospace indstry is unreliable, at best. Can't stick to a timeline, can't stick to a budget.

Given that neither France or Germany were ever part of the JSF program to begin with, I'm not sure this means quite as much as you think it does. Far more likely that this was done in the interests of military integration, given that both countries have been pushing for it for a while now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 13, 2017, 01:09:52 pm

Nah, but their open invite to any other EU country to join in on the project does play into the general discontent about the JSF project. Not that the JSF is going to be cancelled. I just wouldn't expect any additional orders for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 15, 2017, 04:20:59 pm

In this mini article (axios does that) on the Catalan independence referendum (https://www.axios.com/separation-anxiety-catalonia-pm-vows-to-veto-independence-2459838006.html?utm_medium=linkshare&utm_campaign=organic), it says that international law would have to be rewritten in order for a Catalan seccession to happen easily. However, while I get the constitution and national laws part, I'm not aware of any international laws that would prevent Catalonia from successfully secceeding from Spain. So, anybody know what the author is talking about? Maybe they meant the EU, but while there would definetly be legal issues that would need to be worked out in the case of it happening, I'm not aware of anything in the EU charter (not that I've read it) that would stop that from happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 15, 2017, 05:32:02 pm

*shrug* I know that there are concerns as to how legitimate the result of such a referendum would be (one way or the other), given that both the central goverment and the Govern are engaged into political potshots and veiled threats against each other, and threatening  lower rank civil servants with diktats.

TBH given how heated and polarized the atmosphere is (and how even the population is split), I think that concerns about the guarantees in this process are very much legitimate. Indeed, there are voices in one of the pro-referendum parties expressing concerns about this (http://www.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/grupo-militantes-CatComu-rechaza-participar_0_665283646.html). Of course, the way to fix this would be for the central goverment to actually make sure the referendum DID happen, with whichever guarantees. But of course we´re not going to get that, because if the party in power was of the sort that took such reasonable steps there wouldn´t be such polarization in the first place.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 16, 2017, 01:33:09 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 15, 2017, 04:20:59 pm

In this mini article (axios does that) on the Catalan independence referendum (https://www.axios.com/separation-anxiety-catalonia-pm-vows-to-veto-independence-2459838006.html?utm_medium=linkshare&utm_campaign=organic), it says that international law would have to be rewritten in order for a Catalan seccession to happen easily. However, while I get the constitution and national laws part, I'm not aware of any international laws that would prevent Catalonia from successfully secceeding from Spain. So, anybody know what the author is talking about? Maybe they meant the EU, but while there would definetly be legal issues that would need to be worked out in the case of it happening, I'm not aware of anything in the EU charter (not that I've read it) that would stop that from happening.

Well, some international treaties on self-determination present cases where people have a right to self-determination, and Catalonia doesn't really fullfill any of these. But AFAIK that just mean they don't have a right to self-determiantion, not that it's forbidden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2017, 01:49:58 pm

Dutch police and justice department managed to strike the darkweb hard. It's no longer a 'safe' place for criminals from now on.

Using the chaos that hit the Darkweb when police shut down AlphaBay earlier, and after the arrest by German police of two hosts for the darkweb site 'Hansa Market', Dutch police managed to locate the servers in Latvia, and in cooperation with Latvian police, the servers were confiscated and sent to the Netherlands, and the two German hosts were kept in police custody, only being allowed contact with their lawyer.

In the Netherlands, a special, new Darkweb team managed to clone the website, and keep it up and running for weeks, without the users having a clue that it was being run by the Dutch police and Justice Department. With the data gathered during this undercover operation, many drugsdealers were identified, while thinking they were safe with their bitcoins and their tor-browser.

With enough evidence gathered, the Hansa Market has now been shut down and dismantled. A major dealer was arrested in the Netherlands, and accounts for a total of more than 1000 bitcoins (about 2 million euros) have been confiscated.

From the end of june until the end of the operation yesterday, the Dutch Team Hightech Crime has targeted buyers and sellers on the site, of whom the vast mojority turned out to be dealing drugs. Their usernames and passwords have been intercepted. Daily, there were about 1000 deals done, in reaction to about 40000 daily ads.
About 5000 home adresses of recipients were retrieved, and the Justice Department has ordered the packages intercepted at the mail offices.

The national cyber-officer of the Department of Justice, Martijn Engberts says he is very pleased with the result.
"The greates accomplishment of this whole experiment is that from now on, criminals will no longer feel safe on the darkweb. For all they know, the site they are visiting could be run by the police".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 20, 2017, 01:53:47 pm

What happened to the good old days of buying your hard drugs in dark alleys from shifty bastards? /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 20, 2017, 01:57:19 pm

Police kept stealing the stash

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on July 22, 2017, 03:52:30 am

Darknet markets will be moving to a decentralized model, almost certainly. OpenBazaar is one of them.

Then you just need to worry about KYC and KYM.

----------------------------------------------------------

In other news...

Quote

To the public, the first signs of trouble emerged in January when the Transport Agency's director general Maria Ågren was fired. At the time, it was said that this was due to her having a different view than the government on how the Agency's work should be carried out.

Six months later, it was revealed that in fact, she was responsible for an IT deal which allowed Czech and Romanian staff with no security clearance to gain access to the Transport Agency's database, which lists information about all vehicles in Sweden.

According to the news agency TT, the database included information on police and military vehicles, as well as people with protected identities and the routes of armoured vehicles, which could be transporting large sums of money.

Someone's fucked up hard in Sweden. (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6740394)

Home addresses of fighter pilots leaked. (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/svenska-stridspiloters-adresser-hotade-i-lackan/) (Database wasn't even encrypted!)

Crime and suspect database leaked, access to encrypted communications leaked. (http://omni.se/nya-uppgifter-hemliga-brottsregister-och-statens-krypterade-system-rojdes/a/WV2eL)

Full access to database leaked to former Serbian military. (https://nyheteridag.se/nyheter-idag-avslojar-serbisk-militar-fick-full-tillgang-till-transportstyrelsens-it-natverk/) (Which no doubt Russia also has now.)

Some are even saying that infrastructure data such as roads that are suitable for military transports was leaked.

So basically everything needed to take out the logistics of Sweden's defense, not to mention wipe out the Air Force before a single plane lifts off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2017, 04:20:39 am

Holy shit they are going to need to give all their pilots new identities and new homes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 22, 2017, 07:35:47 am

Ouch, 'fucked up hard' is probably a huge understatement there. Heads gonna roll.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 22, 2017, 03:38:29 pm

Hmmmm confidential information about our military, should this be encrypted?

Nah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 22, 2017, 04:11:33 pm

Quote from: Antioch on July 22, 2017, 03:38:29 pm

Hmmmm confidential information

It's in a diary
This is my investigation
It's not a public enquiry

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 23, 2017, 07:58:07 am

Don't worry, she was fined 70 000 Swedish Crowns.

That's roughly $8500.

Yeah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 23, 2017, 10:26:30 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 22, 2017, 02:26:23 pm

Jesus tapdancing Christ, how do you fuck up that badly?

This is approaching "Austrian army attacks itself" levels of incompetence.

Possible intentional sabotage, also seems peeps are testing Swedes (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-masts-idUSKCN0Y921R)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 24, 2017, 05:10:05 am

The president of Poland has surprised friend and foe by vetoing the two new laws that were going to destroy the separation of powers in Poland.

According to the president, the new laws divide the country too much to be allowed to pass. Perhaps the threat by some EU members that they would use the 'nuclear option' (which means, kick Poland out of the EU) if the laws were passed also played a part in the president's decision.

The PiS is not happy now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2017, 05:33:33 am

Poland-Britain commonwealth wen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 24, 2017, 05:56:55 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 24, 2017, 05:10:05 am

The president of Poland has surprised friend and foe by vetoing the two new laws that were going to destroy the separation of powers in Poland.

According to the president, the new laws divide the country too much to be allowed to pass. Perhaps the threat by some EU members that they would use the 'nuclear option' (which means, kick Poland out of the EU) if the laws were passed also played a part in the president's decision.

The PiS is not happy now.

Article 7 is not the kicking out of the EU, but the suspesion of voting rights for the country within the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2017, 01:14:27 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 24, 2017, 12:36:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2017, 05:33:33 am

Poland-Britain commonwealth wen

"We won't let them have our sovereignty unless we give it to them! Speaking of which, Poland, want some sovereignty?"

Spoiler: hey kids, wanna buy some sovereignty? (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/MuIPSe0.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on July 25, 2017, 01:40:51 am

even considering how despised the Only True Party TM is, they'll win the next election, they have no one to lose to anymore (and they might simply fraud their way through either way)

the opposition is so pathetic they can't rally FOR anything, only against PiS retardation and not even effectively at that

SAD!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 26, 2017, 03:34:56 am

The EU has threatened Bangladesh with economic sanctions, if they do not take back their migrants.
Apparently the second largest group of economic migrants using human smuggling routes into Greece and Italy are not from African countries, but instead, from Bangladesh.
Note that none of the Bangladese even have the slightest chance of getting a permit to stay. Bangladesh is a 'safe' country, they are all economic migrants and will not get a visum. However, Bangladesh has been refusing to let them back into the country.
If Bangladesh does not immediatly makes a deal about taking their fellow countrymen back, starting september, the EU will impose economic sanctions and embargo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 26, 2017, 04:13:55 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2017, 03:34:56 am

Note that none of the Bangladese even have the slightest chance of getting a permit to stay. Bangladesh is a 'safe' country, they are all economic migrants and will not get a visum. However, Bangladesh has been refusing to let them back into the country.

Note entirely true. Sure, they probably won't get full refugee status, but Italian judges have given some kind of protections to at least a fourth of incoming Bengladeshi. (Source: Economist) It's the same retarded European Policy of making it really hard to get here, but being quite generous once you set foot on the continent.

(https://i.imgur.com/E9yyNlu.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on July 26, 2017, 04:16:23 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 26, 2017, 04:13:55 am

It's the same retarded European Policy of making it really hard to get here, but being quite generous once you set foot on the continent.

Quite related.

But it is muuuch harder to scale back what you offer then it is to scale back the how tough it is to get in.

So I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 26, 2017, 07:50:25 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 26, 2017, 04:13:55 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 26, 2017, 03:34:56 am

Note that none of the Bangladese even have the slightest chance of getting a permit to stay. Bangladesh is a 'safe' country, they are all economic migrants and will not get a visum. However, Bangladesh has been refusing to let them back into the country.

Note entirely true. Sure, they probably won't get full refugee status, but Italian judges have given some kind of protections to at least a fourth of incoming Bengladeshi. (Source: Economist) It's the same retarded European Policy of making it really hard to get here, but being quite generous once you set foot on the continent.

(https://i.imgur.com/E9yyNlu.png)

I find the term "some form of protection" rather vague, what does it imply?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 26, 2017, 08:52:54 am

That depends a lot from countries to countries, but generally it at least mean that you are not to be deported, even if it falls short of refugees status. Not sure if it grants things like the right to move across Schengen or the right to work. The original article doesn't go into details about what exactly that entails, and it's probably a bunch of different statutes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2017, 04:26:02 am

In Germany, a asylum seeker who was turned down stabbed people in a supermarket. One 50-year old man died, 5 people were injured.
The man was then chased out of the supermarket by other customers, and police could apprehend him after some random guy knocked him unconscious at a bus stop, with a metal bar.

German police are now raiding the asylum seeker center the man lived at, in Hamburg.

The man had lost his asylum case, but Germany was unable to deport him, because they could not prove the man's nationality.
He was known to the police for using drugs and having psychiatric problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2017, 04:30:51 am

In unrelated news, Italy has passed a new law which makes vaccination of children below age 16 against measels and 9 other diseases obligatory.
The law was passed after a measels epidemic struck Italy this year, affecting 3300 children, of whom two died of the measels.

Parent will henceforth have to be able to provide proof of vaccination, or their children will not be welcome in daycare / school, and they can be fined up to 500 euros.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 29, 2017, 09:06:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 29, 2017, 04:30:51 am

In unrelated news, Italy has passed a new law which makes vaccination of children below age 16 against measels and 9 other diseases obligatory.
The law was passed after a measels epidemic struck Italy this year, affecting 3300 children, of whom two died of the measels.

Parent will henceforth have to be able to provide proof of vaccination, or their children will not be welcome in daycare / school, and they can be fined up to 500 euros.

Good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on July 29, 2017, 09:18:34 am

The ability to opt out of vaccination is HIGHLY dependent on how many people opt out versus how many people opt in... and IF people who opt out congregate (which they often do).

When we don't get enough vaccinations for herd immunity then yeah... People lose the ability to opt out except for medical reasons.

I am also in support of mandatory vaccinations. But stipulate that it can be relaxed where it isn't necessary (but as we are learning... It VERY often is)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 29, 2017, 10:47:54 am

I am in favour of mandatory vaccination as well. I was a bit surprised though that Italy of all places would enforce it. Then again, antivaxxing is not really a catholic thing.

I'm not sure though if I agree with the 'not allow children in daycare or school' part. Daycare, mkay, I guess. School? No, you are punishing the child (with a delay in it's development, and/or by giving them a nickname for bullies, Typhoid Mario) for it's parents's wrongs. That can't be good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on July 29, 2017, 10:53:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 29, 2017, 10:47:54 am

I'm not sure though if I agree with the 'not allow children in daycare or school' part. Daycare, mkay, I guess. School? No, you are punishing the child (with a delay in it's development, and/or by giving them a nickname for bullies, Typhoid Mario) for it's parents's wrongs. That can't be good.

They are specifically barring the children from being in the areas where they pose the most risk to other children :P

It is a "No smoking in the fireworks factory" law :P

Yeah it is terrible for the child, but they aren't just doing it to convince parents to vaccinate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 29, 2017, 12:56:04 pm

Guess I get to parrot the support for mandatory vaccinations, and agree with Neo that not allowing an unvaccinated child to go to school isn't so much a punishment for them as it is to avoid the spread of diseases that really shouldn't be spreading.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 31, 2017, 06:02:14 am

Heh. Our Dutch state secretary of education was slapped on the wrist by the judges of the Raad van State (the Court that deals with cases vs the state).
Secretary Sander Dekker had refused to finance an islamic primary school, after one of it's board members refused to withdraw a statement from Facebook in which he swore allegiance to IS.
Dekker was of the opinion that the board members of the school were incapable of organizing education that improves citizenship and social integration, and thus did not approve of government funding for the school.

The judge however ruled that he did not properly motivate his grounds for not funding the school, and he is now forced to give them the funding after all.

This was yesterday's news.
Todays news: A group of 15 islamic primary schools in the Netherlands has made a joint statement in the NRC newspaper, condemning the new islamic school, and supporting Dekker in his original assessment to not approve funding.
"The board has absolutely no experience or affinity with education", and "they are cowboys with no heed for public interests".

Still, this doesn't change the judges' ruling. Coming september, 184 children in Amsterdam will start their education at a government funded islamic school with IS sympathies.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/)
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435 (https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435)

EDIT: ohwait, no, it's not a primary school, it's a highschool. The 15 islamic schools that wrote the letter are warning parents of islamic children that were on their primary schools not to send them to the new islamic highschool.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 31, 2017, 06:40:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 31, 2017, 06:02:14 am

Heh. Our Dutch state secretary of education was slapped on the wrist by the judges of the Raad van State (the Court that deals with cases vs the state).
Secretary Sander Dekker had refused to finance an islamic primary school, after one of it's board members refused to withdraw a statement from Facebook in which he swore allegiance to IS.
Dekker was of the opinion that the board members of the school were incapable of organizing education that improves citizenship and social integration, and thus did not approve of government funding for the school.

The judge however ruled that he did not properly motivate his grounds for not funding the school, and he is now forced to give them the funding after all.

This was yesterday's news.
Todays news: A group of 15 islamic primary schools in the Netherlands has made a joint statement in the NRC newspaper, condemning the new islamic school, and supporting Dekker in his original assessment to not approve funding.
"The board has absolutely no experience or affinity with education", and "they are cowboys with no heed for public interests".

Still, this doesn't change the judges' ruling. Coming september, 184 children in Amsterdam will start their education at a government funded islamic school with IS sympathies.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/)
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435 (https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435)

EDIT: ohwait, no, it's not a primary school, it's a highschool. The 15 islamic schools that wrote the letter are warning parents of islamic children that were on their primary schools not to send them to the new islamic highschool.

So, procedural ground? Can't he just re-refuse the demand with better motivation?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on July 31, 2017, 07:16:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 31, 2017, 06:02:14 am

Heh. Our Dutch state secretary of education was slapped on the wrist by the judges of the Raad van State (the Court that deals with cases vs the state).
Secretary Sander Dekker had refused to finance an islamic primary school, after one of it's board members refused to withdraw a statement from Facebook in which he swore allegiance to IS.
Dekker was of the opinion that the board members of the school were incapable of organizing education that improves citizenship and social integration, and thus did not approve of government funding for the school.

The judge however ruled that he did not properly motivate his grounds for not funding the school, and he is now forced to give them the funding after all.

This was yesterday's news.
Todays news: A group of 15 islamic primary schools in the Netherlands has made a joint statement in the NRC newspaper, condemning the new islamic school, and supporting Dekker in his original assessment to not approve funding.
"The board has absolutely no experience or affinity with education", and "they are cowboys with no heed for public interests".

Still, this doesn't change the judges' ruling. Coming september, 184 children in Amsterdam will start their education at a government funded islamic school with IS sympathies.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/islamitische-basisscholen-verzetten-zich-tegen-nieuwe-islamitische-middelbare-school-in-amsterdam~a4508957/)
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435 (https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/07/30/moslimbasisscholen-mijd-middelbare-islamschool-sio-12302358-a1568435)

EDIT: ohwait, no, it's not a primary school, it's a highschool. The 15 islamic schools that wrote the letter are warning parents of islamic children that were on their primary schools not to send them to the new islamic highschool.

The board of this new Islamic school consists for a large part of the board of the previous Islamic highschool in Amsterdam, which was closed down because of failing education in 2010.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 01, 2017, 09:41:57 am

A Dutch judge has ruled that 8 suspected drug dealers can not be extradited to Belgium, because the conditions in the Belgian prisons are "inhumane and humiliating".
With the verdict, all further requests for extradition to Belgium are suspended.

Last may, 17 people were arrested during a joint operation of Dutch and Belgian police. They are suspected of membership of a criminal organisation that smuggles drugs from South America to Europe on a large scale, using the port of Antwerp, amongst other ports.

The Flemish court had asked for the extradition of 8 of the suspects. Usually, that's just a formality between EU members, but now, the Dutch judge did not allow it.
The reason for the verdict is the report by the CPT committee, the EU organisation for the prevention of torture, that was published two weeks ago.

The CPT calls the conditions in the Belgian prisons 'the worst we have seen in the EU in 27 years'.
For years now, Belgian prisons are suffering from overpopulation, outdated infrastructure, and lack of staff.
In some prisons, prisoners are packed with 3 people in a single person cell, with mouldy walls, no toilet, and no running water.
Frequent guard strikes make matters worse. When the guards are on strike, there isn't enough staff to allow the prisoners outdoor time, showers, telephone calls or family visits.

In may 2016, during one of these strikes, a Dutch judge already forbade the extradition of prisoners to Belgium. This measure was cancelled a month later, when the strike had ended.

The difference now is that the CPT, and the Dutch judge, rule that the situation in Belgian prisons is inhumane and humiliating even without strikes.
The International Chamber for Legal Assistance is now investigating if 'prisoners in Belgian prisons in general are at risk of being subjected to inhumane or humiliating treatment'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 01, 2017, 09:52:24 am

yurop is kill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 02, 2017, 04:15:13 pm

Italy has seized and confiscated a German ship for 'furthering clandestine immigration'.
The ship, belonging to the German ngo 'Jugend Rettet' (=Youth Saves), yet sailing under a Dutch flag, was caught taking aboard refugees in Libyan waters that were still accompanied by human traffickers, and were not in immediate danger.

With this the Italian government is trying to send the message that they are completely fed up with rescue organisations that take their ships right up to Libyan waters to pick up immigrants, instead of restricting themselves to rescueing sinking ships in international waters. Over the past 4 years, 600 thousand immigrants have reached Italy via the Libyan route.

Initially the organisations moved closer to the Libyan coast to do just that, rescue sinking ships. Rescue operations further out in the Mediterranean often proved to be too late. But it has prompted human traffickers to change their tactics. They don't even bother using ships anymore that can possibly make it across the Mediterranean. Instead they just send overcrowded rubber boats, fully expecting they will be picked up by rescue ships as soon as they leave Libyan coastal waters.

The Italian authorities even suspect a lot of the ships have direct contact with the smugglers, coordinating with them when and where to pick up the next boat.
To prevent this, the government in Rome has come up with a official code of conduct for rescue organisations. It requires them to take Italian police officers aboard, that will oversee their work and prevent cooperation with smugglers. So far, only 3 out of 8 organisations operating in the area have signed the code of conduct.

Jugend Rettet did not sign the code. Italian authorities however deny that the ship and it's crew have been detained for that reason.
The crew has been interrogated by Italian police today. It is unsure if any charges will be filed against them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 02, 2017, 04:17:24 pm

How long before Italy decides to start patrolling the area with it's navy?
...

how big IS Italy's navy? *goes and looks on wiki* edit: About typical for European navies that are on the mediterranean.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 03, 2017, 02:40:17 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 02, 2017, 04:17:24 pm

How long before Italy decides to start patrolling the area with it's navy?
...

how big IS Italy's navy? *goes and looks on wiki* edit: About typical for European navies that are on the mediterranean.

It is actually. Well, in international waters at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 03, 2017, 12:25:29 pm

Polish government refuses to stop allowing companies to cut down the ancient, official Unesco world heritage forest of Bialowieza, despite heavy criticism from both the EU and the UN.

Inb4 Russia sends in the druids to protect the endangered Russian speaking trees

EDIT: the Polish government even said they want to get rid of the Unesco status, because 'it was granted illegally'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2017, 12:38:52 pm

Why would they cut down an ancient forest

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 03, 2017, 12:39:59 pm

The trees are globalists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sluissa on August 03, 2017, 12:56:44 pm

People pay good for old wood.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on August 03, 2017, 05:05:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2017, 12:38:52 pm

Why would they cut down an ancient forest

The aging population makes healthcare challenging.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 03, 2017, 07:26:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2017, 12:38:52 pm

Why would they cut down an ancient forest

It's for making antique furniture

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on August 03, 2017, 10:41:24 pm

Well, that is what they call old-growth tropical hardwood forests, after all: An-teak. 
^{Blame whoever made this the EU terrible jokes thread. ^_^}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 04, 2017, 01:10:29 am

Quote from: Culise on August 03, 2017, 10:41:24 pm

Well, that is what they call old-growth tropical hardwood forests, after all: An-teak. 
^{Blame whoever made this the EU terrible jokes thread. ^_^}

Take this guy out and sacrifice him to R'llor

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 04:46:00 am

New York Pizza hit a hurdle in Amsterdam, when a judge ruled today that, despite having tables and chairs to serve 40 people in-house, New York Pizza is not a restaurant, but a fast food chain. This means that they are not allowed to open a planned new business in one of Amsterdam's popular districts, 'de Pijp'. City planning does allow for a restaurant there, but not for another fast food business.

The judge used our official national dictionary, the 'van Dale', for the verdict. He looked up the definition of the word 'fast food', which is 'food that requires no time, or very little time to prepare'. The judge concluded that that description fits NYP, and thus the city council was in it's right to refuse the new business location, for fast food business are regarded as a source of noise and smell pollution for city planning purposes (while restaurants aren't, or at least not in the same category of severity).

New Yor Pizza is surprised at the verdict and will appeal to the Raad van State. Spokesperson Alice Theunissen says: "If the Raad van State confirms this verdict, a lot will change in the sector.
There are many more types of restaurants that have similar short preparation times as pizza. Think of pancake restaurants, and sushi bars. All those companies would suddenly be reclassified as fast food, based on this jurisprudence".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 04, 2017, 05:21:42 am

Yeah, I gotta admit it seems a bit dumb to count something as fast food for city planning purposes just because the food is served quickly. Surely someone can come up with a more specific definition?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 04, 2017, 05:50:42 am

Why does the amount of seating factor in? Mcdonalds always have dozens of inhouse seating and nobody would argue they arent fast food

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 04, 2017, 06:25:16 am

But an Italian pizzeria on the exact same spot would be fine?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 08:08:58 am

Sounds sort of like they just don't want 'Yet Another American Company'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 08:36:40 am

Maybe the judge just thinks that deep dish is the only real pizza.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 08:49:07 am

Quote from: Ispil on August 04, 2017, 08:16:57 am

When your definition of "fast food" is "food that it is served fast", then I think you've fucked up somewhere.

Not... really? Though it looked more like prepared fast than served fast, in that case. Still, quick food is pretty core to fast food, hence the term.

Ain't nothin' really stopping a fast food joint from being able to seat a buncha' folks. They just generally don't 'cause their throughput's fast enough it ain't worth having.

Don't think I've been to that particular pizza joint before (which, considering the name, isn't exactly a surprise), though. Maybe it is a source of noise and smell pollution more in line with a fast food joint than a restaurant? Some pizza places largely are, though a lotta' restaurants are worse on the latter than most fast food places, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 08:56:10 am

I'd say the speed of serving customers would be what matters. Particularly, but not limited to, whether or not they do take-away/take-out/whatever it's called.

Quote from: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 08:36:40 am

Maybe the judge just thinks that deep dish is the only real pizza.

Europe don't do deep dish "pizza". If you served somebody from here that disgusting mass of fat and lard and call it pizza they'd call you crazy.

You could get away with calling it a pie, probably, since that is pretty much what it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 08:57:33 am

If calling it a pie is what gets you more kinds of delicious pizza, then I don't think I'd care.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 09:02:21 am

Well you wouldn't get more kinds of pizza, because it wouldn't be a pizza, it would be a pie. You'd get more kinds of (supposedly) delicious pie. Your amount of delicious pizza would still be the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 09:09:08 am

Going the other direction, do you have thin crust Pizza in Europe or do you consider that heresy? ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 09:30:56 am

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 08:49:07 am

Quote from: Ispil on August 04, 2017, 08:16:57 am

When your definition of "fast food" is "food that it is served fast", then I think you've fucked up somewhere.

Not... really? Though it looked more like prepared fast than served fast, in that case. Still, quick food is pretty core to fast food, hence the term.

Ain't nothin' really stopping a fast food joint from being able to seat a buncha' folks. They just generally don't 'cause their throughput's fast enough it ain't worth having.

Don't think I've been to that particular pizza joint before (which, considering the name, isn't exactly a surprise), though. Maybe it is a source of noise and smell pollution more in line with a fast food joint than a restaurant? Some pizza places largely are, though a lotta' restaurants are worse on the latter than most fast food places, heh.

What, you've never heard of New York Pizza? That's like the McDonalds of Pizza, they're everywhere.
Yet no, it was not a judge 'not wanting another US company', it was a judge not wanting another fast food joint in Amsterdam, that is already overcrowded with food and drink stalls, being a tourist hotspot. It's not like New York Pizza doesn't already have a handful of business in Amsterdam. Hell, even my town has 2 or three of them. And a handful of Dominos.

And tbh, I kinda agree with NYP (and Dominos etc etc) being fast food and not restaurants. They don't have a kitchen, or cooks, they just have prefab pizzas and underpaid students.
That being said, I do sometimes order a pizza at NYP. The quality of their prefab pizzas isn't that terrible. Although their so called 'Italian bottom' does not get close to what Italian pizza dough looks and tastes like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 09:33:05 am

I dont even know what's supposed to be different about thin crust pizza from ordinary pizza. Some pizza are thin all over. Some pizza are a bit puffier at the edges. Is that what you mean?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 09:35:43 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 09:09:08 am

Going the other direction, do you have thin crust Pizza in Europe or do you consider that heresy? ;)

They have two kinds of crust here. Standard, which is the hersesy that Americans dare call pizza, but is in fact low-sugar donut dough or something like that. It's disgusting. And then they have 'Italian crust', which is basically the same, but rolled out thinner.

It keeps confusing me. WIth a culture made up of quite a few Italian immigrants, how did the US get pizza so wrong?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 09:46:49 am

They didn't, because thin crust is plenty prolific. We didn't get things wrong, we just got them more right :V

Quote from: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 09:30:56 am

What, you've never heard of New York Pizza? That's like the McDonalds of Pizza, they're everywhere.

... in any case, double checking some things I'm not actually sure if I've seen that pizza chain or not. There's two different variations of New York Pizza <something> in the nearest city-ish thing, but I can't seem to tell if they're part of the chain or not.

It actually looks kinda' doubtful, since the company itself being lawed at is apparently headquartered in the netherlands and has only been around since '93 -- and I'm pretty sure one of the new york somethings in the mentioned town has been there longer than that, heh.

There also doesn't actually seem to be a chain specifically named that of note, or at all, stateside. Some variation on the name is borderline generic so far as pizza joints go over here, but I'm pretty sure most of them aren't particularly related.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 09:53:06 am

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 09:46:49 am

It actually looks kinda' doubtful, since the company itself being lawed at is apparently headquartered in the netherlands and has only been around since '93 -- and I'm pretty sure one of the new york somethings in the mentioned town has been there longer than that, heh.

That's not unusual. The Netherlands is the tax refuge for a lot of US chains. Apple has it's hq in the Netherlands as well, and so does Google, purely to dodge taxes. We call them 'mailbox companies'. There's been a public cry-out (and EU pressure) to stop being a tax refuge, but little political will to actually do something about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 10:01:27 am

Oh, sure, but as near as I can tell that's not happening in this case. The New York Pizza being referenced is, as near as I can tell, largely a strictly european chain. Going by what google translate is spitting out when pointed to the history bit in the about section of their site (http://www.werkenbijnewyorkpizza.nl/), the company just straight up didn't exist until '93, and their first joint was in amsterdam. Chain itself looks a lot like it's limited to the netherlands and a bit of germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 10:05:38 am

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 09:46:49 am

They didn't, because thin crust is plenty prolific. We didn't get things wrong, we just got them more right :V

Hehehe, the best kind of viewpoint.

I've never heard of any pizza chain called "New York Puzza" either so that might be a Holland only chain. But then again I've isolated myself on the countryside for years now so I don't exactly have a huge familiarity with what kind of fast food chains there is in the bigger cities.

Also what, doughnut dough? The fuck? How could you ever even serve pizza on something so soft and spungy and moist pastry?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 10:10:16 am

Eh, it can work. There's tougher donuts if you're not after the softer sort, and most of its consistency et al has more to do with the cooking and the extra bits than the primary component. The dough itself for pizza isn't really the exact same sort, though, or at least the prep's different enough it's hard to think them the same.

... usually, anyway. Someone out there's probably just straight up made a pizza crust out of donuts. I've certainly put donuts on pizza, before. Was tasty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 10:41:13 am

The biggest problem with making pizza from doughnut dough is that you miss out on all the content that's supposed to go where the hole is now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 10:46:40 am

D... donut dough doesn't come with a hole in it. The things don't even necessarily have a hole at all. Like, I'm guessing you know that, but just to be sure...

In any case, what's done is fill the hole with more dough and delicious accompanying pizzabits. Kinda' like a creme filled donut or donut hole or somethin', just... pizza-y.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 10:49:14 am

Also just so like. We're clear. American pizza isn't made with donut dough on the whole. That's like. Also considered a weird thing here. Pizza donuts. Frumples talked about this before. So I guess it's a thing for him. But it's not a super common american past time thing. It's a classic Frumple. Sounds like it could be good though.

You know. To not mislead our friends from overseas...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 10:56:37 am

I make pizza exclusively with organic vegan locust flower paninis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 11:18:48 am

Quote from: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 10:49:14 am

Also just so like. We're clear. American pizza isn't made with donut dough on the whole. That's like. Also considered a weird thing here. Pizza donuts. Frumples talked about this before. So I guess it's a thing for him. But it's not a super common american past time thing. It's a classic Frumple. Sounds like it could be good though.

You know. To not mislead our friends from overseas...

Thoooough, pizza bagels actually are somewhat common (or at least not particularly unusual) over here, just to throw some confusion into things. There's bread things with holes in them that get pizzabits put on 'em, there's just usually not sweet things involved, too (save to the extent pineapple or somethin' gets tossed around, anyway).

But yeah, generally donuts don't really get mixed up with pizza unless someone involved is very bored and has an excess of leftover pizza and donuts. Like, maybe the dough does, but far as I'm aware most dough-things (particularly restaurant dough-things) don't really involve many different kinds of dough, just particular ways of preparing one or two sorts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 11:30:56 am

Just don't ask any Europeans what they think lemonade is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 11:34:30 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 11:30:56 am

Just don't ask any Europeans what they think lemonade is.

Looked this up and honestly we should have left the Europeans to the soviets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 11:50:40 am

... kinda' looks like it's just lemon soda? Which isn't much like lemonade, but I'unno if it's worth the gulags.

We even more or less got the stuff (right down to calling it the same thing), I think, we just tend to dye it. Minute maid pink lemonade type stuff. If I was feelin' frisky I could pick some up in the drink aisle of, if not the nearest grocery story, then at least the nearest non-mom-and-pops one.

Wanted the exact same it'd take going a bit further out and hitting up one of those import-junk joints, but still doable.

E: Actually think there might some kind of mexican/south american import thing that's about that, too. J-something for the common brand name that seems to be ending up in the US?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 04, 2017, 12:19:39 pm

Over here, 'lemonade' is a broad term for any drink made by adding water to fruit syrup. Any fruit, not nescessarily lemon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 12:34:44 pm

No, it's only drinks made from lemon-based extract. Other fruits and berries are called their own thing. I don't know what to translate the word to, English isn't enough. And juice is something completely different.

And the main difference Frumple is that the other english speaking places don't use lemonade as a general word for sofa drinks.

.. Or maybe it was the other way around. You're both wrong anyway and only Swedish way is the right way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 01:06:07 pm

Looking at Wikipedia it is the non-American English speakers who call soft drinks lemonade. The fools.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:11:08 pm

In the UK the lemon juice + water + mint + sugar is lemonade and the lemon juice + fizzy water + sugar is also lemonade

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:16:56 pm

You might want to inform your countrymen then, as I've heard "Sprite is lemonade" from multiple sources.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 01:18:25 pm

Well that would be an example of the second category then?`

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:16:56 pm

You might want to inform your countrymen then, as I've heard "Sprite is lemonade" from multiple sources.

Sprite is lemonade

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:21:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:16:56 pm

You might want to inform your countrymen then, as I've heard "Sprite is lemonade" from multiple sources.

Sprite is lemonade

Every day we stray further from God's light.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:23:56 pm

God is sprite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 01:25:16 pm

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 11:50:40 am

I'unno if it's worth the gulags.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Sprite is lemonade

Still feel that way Frumple?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:25:40 pm

No wonder so many people are becoming atheists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 01:59:47 pm

Quote from: Criptfeind on August 04, 2017, 01:25:16 pm

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 11:50:40 am

I'unno if it's worth the gulags.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Sprite is lemonade

Still feel that way Frumple?

Mostly.

... maybe a little less than before. I'd probably be more willing to let it slide if the european demographic would concede jelly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 02:22:24 pm

Fine, but we get elks!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 03:03:35 pm

I could probably get behind that, if it came to it. Far as I'm aware most of the places in the US that ever see anything able to be called an elk doesn't really have people in it. Or elks. Canada might be a bit more peeved, mind you, but people don't pay much attention to them one way or another.

As a floridian, you may find that my willingness to sacrifice the nomenclature of an oversized deer that might as well not exist is a stance easily negotiated with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 04:42:36 pm

Lelwut frumple, Elk live primarily in the northern parts of the US, you'd find them in Yellowstone for example. Ditto Alaska and the whole of Canada.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 04, 2017, 04:45:17 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 04, 2017, 01:20:15 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2017, 01:16:56 pm

You might want to inform your countrymen then, as I've heard "Sprite is lemonade" from multiple sources.

Sprite is lemonade

Heresy!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 05:47:15 pm

Deal! You now have to correctly refer to moose as elk, and your previously known as elk deer will from now on be called a "buckle up buckaroo moo".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 04, 2017, 06:21:38 pm

The funny thing is that I have had this exact same misunderstanding with a German that asked me to get her some lemonade from the store.

She wasn't entirely happy with what I returned with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 06:23:08 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 04:42:36 pm

Lelwut frumple, Elk live primarily in the northern parts of the US, you'd find them in Yellowstone for example. Ditto Alaska and the whole of Canada.

You'll note that, while I have been from east to west coast and back in this country, I've never personally been further north than north carolina -- I got family all the way up (NY), but if there's elk around the areas they're in I rather imagine the elk apocalypse descending on NYC would have hit the news by now. Misk would have at least mentioned the regular elk dodging, at least. Critters might as well not exist for all they've interacted with basically anything I have. Elk are like wyoming. No one's where they are to tell you they exist.

You may also be interested in a population map of the country, so that you may compare the rest of it to what isn't in the northern wilderness-y bits :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 04, 2017, 06:40:39 pm

Ahem, Frumple. I hope you are following the Bay12 Language Convention of 2017 up there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 06:49:55 pm

Probably!

... to be completely honest, I don't actually remember exactly what an elk is, or if there's any difference between one and a moose and a BUBM. I've just been throwing out the word and letting it stick to whatever it sticks to for whoever reads it.

Is why ceding elk and moose and basically everything related to them is real easy. Got no clue which ones they are and I don't really care if or how badly I'm getting it wrong :V

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 05, 2017, 12:07:50 am

Organ Pipe cacti are pretty self explainatory I suppose, they grow really tall and in bunches.

Though yeah, you'd have to explain what a cactus is to those not familiar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 05, 2017, 12:17:13 am

Thats a bad example in a DF forum.  Of course I know what a saguaro is

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Mech#4 on August 05, 2017, 12:47:31 am

Hm, I know what a saguaro is but apparently it's pronounced "sa-wa-row" and not "sa-gua-row".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 05, 2017, 01:42:18 am

It"s a loanword from some aztec language imto Spanish and from there into English.  I'm assuming that Spanish phonology applies amd that therefore I do know how to pronounce it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on August 05, 2017, 04:06:22 am

Quote from: Frumple on August 04, 2017, 06:23:08 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 04, 2017, 04:42:36 pm

Lelwut frumple, Elk live primarily in the northern parts of the US, you'd find them in Yellowstone for example. Ditto Alaska and the whole of Canada.

You'll note that, while I have been from east to west coast and back in this country, I've never personally been further north than north carolina -- I got family all the way up (NY), but if there's elk around the areas they're in I rather imagine the elk apocalypse descending on NYC would have hit the news by now. Misk would have at least mentioned the regular elk dodging, at least. Critters might as well not exist for all they've interacted with basically anything I have. Elk are like wyoming. No one's where they are to tell you they exist.

You may also be interested in a population map of the country, so that you may compare the rest of it to what isn't in the northern wilderness-y bits :P

That might be part of the reason. You won't find many in NY, but they do range through the Pacific Northwest west of the Cascades to the coast.  Boop (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Wapiti.png) (dark green for modern, which is the relevant bit).  It'd be more accurate for smjjames to say "west" rather than "north", though; their range follows the Rockies as far south as New Mexico, helped by intentional reintroduction (http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/download/publications/wildlife/Elk-in-New-Mexico%20.pdf), though similar groups have also been working on doing the same in the Appalachians. 

That said, Pacific Northwest aside, the Rockies and Appalachians are indeed not exactly densely populated. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 05, 2017, 04:30:55 am

I've seen elk in my childhood yard on multiple occasions (within a densely populated urban area), they're not some elusive beast that you need live in a mountain cabin made of your own shit to ever encounter (or worse, visit Wyoming).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on August 05, 2017, 06:31:53 pm

If you live in Utah (densely populated from a few hours south to a few hours north of Salt Lake) you're right in the middle of elk territory. Same goes for western Colorado, but idk if some of the big cities there are included. And it appears that coastal Washington/Oregon/some of California is included, which is also a place with a lot of people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 05, 2017, 08:35:14 pm

The disregard for international agreements on this thread is appalling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 05, 2017, 08:38:50 pm

Shoulda got those signatory commitments before you finalized the treaty. After the EU I thought you'd know better, scriver.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 05, 2017, 09:02:10 pm

No, no, I'm pretty sure that's just some odd sort of language drift at worst. Everyone is fastidiously calling whatever it is that's supposed to be an elk an elk. The definition of elk, even, is now, "Whatever it is that's supposed to be called an elk." It's a delightful example of efficient variable linguistic recursion. _{which may or may not be more evil than you. It's hard to tell with evlr.}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 06, 2017, 12:09:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2017, 06:35:33 pm

Tbh I need to just make a hella Jeff macro "I warned you about the complacency bro, I warned you and it keeps happening." It's possible because this is a contest and one must not be entirely short-sighted to forget that after this election, the victor has a country to govern

(http://i.imgur.com/BO4glzP.png)

Quote

Less than three months after his election, France's energetic and image-conscious president has seen his popularity drop after announcing budget cuts, launching a divisive labor reform and engaging in a damaging dispute with the military.
A series of opinion polls last week showed the percentage of French citizens who said they were satisfied with Macron's policies and trusted their young leader to deal with the country's problems plunging. The reversal might not affect the visible international profile he has cut since taking office, but it could hurt Macron's ability to secure his ambitious domestic agenda.
France's Ifop polling agency put it bluntly: "Apart from Jacques Chirac in July 1995, a newly elected president has never seen his popularity rate falling as quickly during the summer after the election."

Don't worry fam free market will neolib it (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/france-rethinks-romance-macron-popularity-sinks-49061858)
"Emmanuel Macron's approval rating goes negative after just three months in office" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-approval-rating-unpopular-vote-share-housing-support-job-reform-a7876861.html)

Quote

Mr Macron, France’s youngest leader since Napoleon, is pushing through controversial plans to strip away workers’ rights and labour market regulations.

French ppl actually voted for this ayyy lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 06, 2017, 12:13:57 pm

Imagine electing bourgeoisie scum and then being surprised when the bourgeoisie scum steals your labor and life while sucking off oligarchs in 2017.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 06, 2017, 12:50:18 pm

... barely paying attention, but are you intimating that this is another case of people voting for someone who ran on the platform of fucking people, and then became shocked, shocked I say, when the one they voted in started fucking people?

Because it kinda' seems like that's at least been more visible in the last year or three.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2017, 12:59:24 pm

I'm not familiar with Macrons platform, though he did run on the same kind of neoliberal globalist stuff that has been getting a backlash, I think (on the running on the neoliberal globalist platform, not the backlash).

Though stripping away workers rights doesn't sound very liberal to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 06, 2017, 01:02:13 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 06, 2017, 12:59:24 pm

I'm not familiar with Macrons platform, though he did run on the same kind of neoliberal globalist stuff that has been getting a backlash, I think (on the running on the neoliberal globalist platform, not the backlash).

Though stripping away workers rights doesn't sound very liberal to me.

Keep in mind that the US use the wrong definition of liberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 06, 2017, 01:33:40 pm

Quote from: Frumple on August 06, 2017, 12:50:18 pm

... barely paying attention, but are you intimating that this is another case of people voting for someone who ran on the platform of fucking people, and then became shocked, shocked I say, when the one they voted in started fucking people?
Because it kinda' seems like that's at least been more visible in the last year or three.

Absolutely shocked

Quote from: smjjames on August 06, 2017, 12:59:24 pm

I'm not familiar with Macrons platform, though he did run on the same kind of neoliberal globalist stuff that has been getting a backlash, I think (on the running on the neoliberal globalist platform, not the backlash).
Though stripping away workers rights doesn't sound very liberal to me.

It's liberal in the Reagan/Thatcher sense of liberal, which entails selling everything that isn't bolted down (and then selling the bolts), deregulating everything you can until you're finally ready to sell government itself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2017, 07:29:21 pm

After cutting public services, housing benefits, military spending and labour union powers, Macron makes his wife an offical of the government with salary and an additional separate budget to their already existing 450k euro budget (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brigitte-macron-first-lady-petition-emmanuel-french-president-france-elysee-palace-older-official-a7880381.html). French people get salty over this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 07:32:10 pm

Is... his Wife at least super qualified and not in anyway stinking of nepotism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2017, 07:34:46 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 07:32:10 pm

Is... his Wife at least super qualified and not in anyway stinking of nepotism?

She taught drama

To him

And already has her own staff, security and funding from the government

Quote

A row erupted on Monday after the government announced it was going to cut a particular type of housing benefit by five euros a month in a move affecting millions of French people – including many living below the poverty line.
Louis Gallois, head of a federation of organisations working on poverty, slammed the measure for “hitting the poorest people foremost”.
More than 800,000 of those affected were students, causing students’ unions to demand the government “instantly withdraw” the plans. Disgruntlement among students is a thorny issue because the government is seeking to avoid students joining potential protests against Macron’s proposed changes to labour laws this autumn.
Opposition politicians accused Macron of targeting the poor and favouring the rich with measures including the loosening France’s wealth tax so that it applies only to property, not investments – which Macron has argued will boost the economy. A study last week found that overall the richest 10% of France’s households will likely benefit the most from Macron’s proposed tax cuts.

Dang this is too bad to make fun of (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/24/housing-benefit-cuts-add-to-fall-in-emmanuel-macrons-popularity)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on August 08, 2017, 07:37:05 pm

Schemes like that are a very common form of corruption in France, though usually they end up as secretaries or similar. Macron's wife taught literature at a prestigious school but aside from a failed city council run in 1989 and an unspecified role in her husband's campaign she doesn't seem to have much experience in politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2017, 07:40:29 pm

You could have stopped this, France. You could have had Comrade Melenchon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 08, 2017, 07:41:10 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 07:32:10 pm

Is... his Wife at least super qualified and not in anyway stinking of nepotism?

Well, the French already have (and had) corruption scandals with nepotism and so, it's understandable that they'd be all salty about it. Though really, if Macron is trying to copy the US, the First Lady isn't an official position either, well, it's not considered being a position within the government, which is sort of sounds like what Macron did.

Quote from: Baffler on August 08, 2017, 07:37:05 pm

Schemes like that are a very common form of corruption in France, though usually they end up as secretaries or similar.

Yeah, primarily that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on August 08, 2017, 07:45:36 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2017, 07:40:29 pm

You could have stopped this, France. You could have had Comrade Melenchon.

I bet Marine Le Pen wouldn't hire her wife to do pointless make-work and draw a double salary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2017, 07:47:41 pm

Quote from: Baffler on August 08, 2017, 07:45:36 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2017, 07:40:29 pm

You could have stopped this, France. You could have had Comrade Melenchon.

I bet Marine Le Pen wouldn't hire her wife to do pointless make-work and draw a double salary.

Do you think the modern equivalent of having your mistress' identity exposed while in office is being far-right and having your lesbian mistress' identity exposed while in office?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 08, 2017, 08:59:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 08, 2017, 07:41:10 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 07:32:10 pm

Is... his Wife at least super qualified and not in anyway stinking of nepotism?

Well, the French already have (and had) corruption scandals with nepotism and so, it's understandable that they'd be all salty about it

Yeah, didn't they just go through this with the through this with the last president?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 09:01:06 pm

I mean making your wife your secretary isn't a terrible idea. Having someone in synch with you would make a fine secretary.

Except... You know... there is nothing to suggest they will or even need to actually fill that position and it is the tax payer's money... So I'd probably prefer them not to hire their family members for government positions where only they can fire them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 08, 2017, 09:08:36 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 08, 2017, 08:59:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 08, 2017, 07:41:10 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 07:32:10 pm

Is... his Wife at least super qualified and not in anyway stinking of nepotism?

Well, the French already have (and had) corruption scandals with nepotism and so, it's understandable that they'd be all salty about it

Yeah, didn't they just go through this with the through this with the last president?

I don't know about Hollande or Sarkozy, though Sarkozy did have some troubles, but one of the candidates, Fillon, got hit with the same kind of corruption scandal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2017, 09:12:20 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 09:01:06 pm

I mean making your wife your secretary isn't a terrible idea.

Not sure if ooc bait

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 09:18:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2017, 09:12:20 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 09:01:06 pm

I mean making your wife your secretary isn't a terrible idea.

Not sure if ooc bait

I mean in surface logic. JUST in terms of "I need a secretary... My Wife would be a good candidate"

Unless you mean like... Secretary of state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 09, 2017, 01:08:47 am

1) Brigitte Macron's official role as First Lady would have been unpaid, (although with a separate budget for staff, like in the US)
2) To all of you asking if she's qualified, what the fuck do you think are the qualifications needed for being First Lady?
3) You can't really compare that to naminating family member for existing paid position.
4) As far as I know, it didn't go further than have a working group look into potential status for Brigitte ( or releasing a trial balloon ), they backed down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 09, 2017, 03:34:21 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2017, 09:12:20 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 08, 2017, 09:01:06 pm

I mean making your wife your secretary isn't a terrible idea.

Not sure if ooc bait

Neo is far too literal to post ooc bait.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 10, 2017, 08:58:14 am

Not sure where I'd post Turkey stuff, but, Turkey has gone cray-cray. (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-hero-tshirt-arrests-propaganda-recep-tayyip-erdogan/)

Arresting people over percieved fashion faux pas? Height of paranoia, yeesh. Maybe Erdogan should check if any of his clothes are made by American brands if they're going to go there with paranoia. Might give him a mental conniption fit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 10, 2017, 10:10:13 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 10, 2017, 08:58:14 am

Not sure where I'd post Turkey stuff, but, Turkey has gone cray-cray. (http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-hero-tshirt-arrests-propaganda-recep-tayyip-erdogan/)

Arresting people over percieved fashion faux pas? Height of paranoia, yeesh. Maybe Erdogan should check if any of his clothes are made by American brands if they're going to go there with paranoia. Might give him a mental conniption fit.

Ohw shit like that have been going on for a while now.

People who cancelled their tv subscription after the government removed "Gullen linked channels" from the package were already considered enough Gullen supporter to fire them from their jobs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 13, 2017, 08:56:10 am

Three out of eight migrant rescue organisations in the Mediterranean have decided today to stop rescueing migrants, and keep their ship in harbour, because they can no longer guarantee the safety of their crew.
Doctors Without Borders, Save The Children, and Sea Watch will no longer send out ships.

They blame the Libyan coast guard's aggressive actions as the main reason for this decision. Since a few days, Libyan coats guard has started firing on the ngo ships when they get in / too close to Libyan waters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 13, 2017, 09:03:40 am

I wonder what the specific reason for Libya doing that is. I can get being frustrated by the NGOs enabling the smugglers, Italy is frustrated at them too, but firing on the NGO ships?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on August 13, 2017, 03:05:00 pm

Well yeah. They won't fuck of peacefully, so what alternative do they have?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 13, 2017, 03:22:37 pm

...

Literally everything other than shooting them? I mean warships are big and fast, not hard to get in the way of NGO ships entering their waters.

Demand a government presence on NGO ships in their waters.

Actually dealing with the human smugglers operating in your territory might also be a good idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 13, 2017, 03:30:12 pm

Are we talking about just warning shots or is it more than just warning shots?

@hector:That could include keeping away the NGOs unintentionally enabling them, not that it makes it okay to fire at them and doesn't actually deal with the smugglers directly anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on August 13, 2017, 03:40:32 pm

Those NGO's and """""aid organizations""""" are just as complicit as the smugglers in Libya. Dealing with them, who make the last leg of the journey for people in the smuggling pipeline, is a necessary step, and thanks to the Coalition bombing their naval bases during the intervention they have to make do with a single frigate, a single minesweeper, and a handful of converted civilian vessels to guard their entire 1,770 kilometer long coastline. Again, if these organizations refuse to even consider listening to them, and the governments that're supposed to administer them refuse to rein them in, what other choice do they have? And anyway it's not like they're sinking them, just firing warning shots. 

And they are dealing with smugglers in Libya, to the best of their ability anyway, but the militia groups that control large portions of the country make their money from this. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/03/libya-chaos-human-traffickers-free-rein-170301092942861.html) The government (at least in Tobruk, I dunno much about what happens in GNA territory) would love to cut off the financial pipeline to these groups, but they are simply not able. I feel like a broken record, but getting rid of Qaddafi was a mistake.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2017, 06:24:53 pm

tbh the EU should just invade libya and help what's left of the libyan coalition gov retake its own nation and reestablish rule of law. Never too late for damage control

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 13, 2017, 06:30:37 pm

With an extremely high risk of just making things worse. If they ask for help, then yeah, sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2017, 06:48:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 13, 2017, 06:30:37 pm

With an extremely high risk of just making things worse. If they ask for help, then yeah, sure.

Already at rock bottom. They broke it, now they can fix it, they don't fix it, unlimited border forever. Look at this retarded shit, EU trying to stop Libyan general from reconquering Libya because muh Russia. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/09/eu-russia-broker-libya-khalifa-haftar-libya-tobruk) Seems like the EU keeps trying to have its cake and eat it too, which is rapidly ensuring it is surrounded by Russian proxies, Jihadis and lawless frontiers.
I mean ffs the UN gov won't unfreeze Libyan assets because no faction has been competent enough to reconquer Libya, all the while the EU does its best to ensure no faction reconquers Libya. Without the funds, Libyan security forces whether Tobruk or Tripoli aligned cannot provision themselves properly for a full campaign and rebuilding effort, which quagmires everything until Moscow buys a faction or even better, a joint Putin-Trump backed faction does.

It is just circles and layers of suicide

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 13, 2017, 09:00:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2017, 06:48:12 pm

Already at rock bottom.

I feel the need to point out again that Things. Can. Always. Get. Worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 13, 2017, 09:03:20 pm

Probably Libyan government funding the traffickers which is why it's only warning shots. Can't be killing your own guys after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 15, 2017, 04:48:30 pm

>europeans (http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/15/this-nasal-spray-could-cure-you-of-your-burning-hatred-of-refugees-6854047/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 15, 2017, 05:11:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 15, 2017, 04:48:30 pm

>europeans (http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/15/this-nasal-spray-could-cure-you-of-your-burning-hatred-of-refugees-6854047/)

NEWS!: Spraying a brain chemical up peoples noses changes their behavior! or NEWS!:Your nose apparently has oxyticin receptors! /s

Using something in a way that it's not intended to be used for doesn't seem like a very good idea anyhow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 15, 2017, 06:11:37 pm

Conspiracy theorists have ammo for ages to come now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on August 15, 2017, 10:12:10 pm

Not, of course, that they really needed it, but it's always nice to reload once in a while. ^_^

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/pHM9sFp.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 16, 2017, 01:27:12 am

Quote

“Given the right circumstances, oxytocin may help promote the acceptance and integration of migrants into Western cultures,” says Hurlemann.

They're basically researching thought control. That's fucked up.

"Oh, the rightwingers/alt-righters are at it again? Just lace the water with this stuff."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 16, 2017, 05:37:35 am

Quote from: da_nang on August 16, 2017, 01:27:12 am

Quote

“Given the right circumstances, oxytocin may help promote the acceptance and integration of migrants into Western cultures,” says Hurlemann.

They're basically researching thought control. That's fucked up.

"Oh, the rightwingers/alt-righters are at it again? Just lace the water with this stuff."

Oxytocin research has been full of ethically dubious papers and experiments ever since it was discovered though, it's literallyone of the hormones involved in trust and belonging. E

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 16, 2017, 06:18:34 am

So basically you have to be high on drugs to be pro-immigrants?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 06:22:50 am

Quote from: Antioch on August 16, 2017, 06:18:34 am

So basically you have to be high on drugs to be pro-immigrants?

Didn't you hear? There is a drug that cures Xenophobia now.

Ohhh... Wait... This is the EU thread, so it is doubly relevant given it was a study in Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 16, 2017, 07:51:12 am

Quote from: Antioch on August 16, 2017, 06:18:34 am

So basically you have to be high on drugs to be pro-immigrants?

Nah, I think the take-away is thatnormal neurotrasmitters cause you to be pro-refugees, so you have to have a disfunctional brain to be anti-immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2017, 07:58:25 am

Yup, that sure is their take! It's great to see that science today is free from politization. We're definitely not repeating the mistakes of yesteryear here, we learned our lesson!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on August 16, 2017, 08:11:15 am

I think the takeaway is that an oxytocin spray and the right pressures make people more likely to support immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 08:13:16 am

Quote from: Arx on August 16, 2017, 08:11:15 am

I think the takeaway is that an oxytocin spray and the right pressures make people more likely to support immigrants.

I kind of love the idea of governments prescribing mood altering or mind altering drugs in order for you to fit more ideally in their ideologies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 16, 2017, 08:13:54 am

Quote from: Arx on August 16, 2017, 08:11:15 am

I think the takeaway is that an oxytocin spray and the right pressures make people more likely to support immigrants.

Which is hardly surprising as those things are linked to making people more altruistic. Not that this study is particularily interesting and/or relevent, apart from providing an excuse to diss each others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 08:19:16 am

Relaxed people are less stressed... Who knew? :P

Though the delicious part is just the implication that it might be prescribed in the future. Question is what country will do that first?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2017, 08:24:35 am

Quote from: Sheb on August 16, 2017, 08:13:54 am

Quote from: Arx on August 16, 2017, 08:11:15 am

I think the takeaway is that an oxytocin spray and the right pressures make people more likely to support immigrants.

Which is hardly surprising as those things are linked to making people more altruistic. Not that this study is particularily interesting and/or relevent, apart from providing an excuse to diss each others.

Well, except from the literal idea of medicinally brainwashing people which the paper chose to frame the research in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 08:35:00 am

Am I guessing by that response Sciver that the intent of the research wasn't even that but rather that is how people politicized the research?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2017, 08:45:38 am

I don't know how the research was done, only the slant of the article. That's why I put it that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 08:48:37 am

I mean I guess they might have been trying to find a link between Xenophobia and stress or agitation... and found that people who are less aggressive and stressed out tend to be less Xenophobic?

Then FREEKEN AGAIN how the WORLD did they come up with that drug? I REALLY hope they weren't prescribing it for that experiment. I guess it is possible it was demographics and found people who took a lot of that drug tended to be more favorable towards foreigners.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 16, 2017, 09:17:06 am

Oxytocin as a medical drug has been around a while neonivek.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 16, 2017, 09:19:59 am

Actual research press release (https://idw-online.de/en/news679448)

When they ask prescriptive questions like "How can people who tend to have a xenophobic attitude be motivated to be more altruistic?" people tend to question their motives as they make it sound like xenophobia is a mental illness - a plague - that needs to be cured.

Imagine if they started drugging all the asocial or introverted to be more extrovert.

Xenophobia is nowhere near debilitating enough for the "afflicted" person's normal life to need a "cure". Hell, I wouldn't even qualify it as a phobia. How many of the so-called "xenophobes" start having a panic attack at the sight of a refugee?

That doesn't take into account just how xenophobia is very human. Fear of the unknown, like avoiding animals with aggressive colors. The animal may not be dangerous in reality, but that doesn't mean the cat should go curiously poking around.

And this is all while taking the research out of the contemporary and political context it's surrounded in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 16, 2017, 09:24:45 am

Actually it is pretty insulting that rejecting immigration is deemed a phobia to begin with.

A phobia is an irrational fear. Rejecting immigration is a stance on a political issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2017, 09:28:24 am

It doesn't help that a LOT of the arguments for rejecting immigrants often are sort of irrationalities.

Then again in some of these cases the country cannot support the influx of immigrants and should probably hold back.

The problem... is that if you cannot get an amount, it becomes a problem of ideology rather than practicality. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 16, 2017, 09:28:49 am

Quote from: Antioch on August 16, 2017, 09:24:45 am

Actually it is pretty insulting that rejecting immigration is deemed a phobia to begin with.

A phobia is an irrational fear. Rejecting immigration is a stance on a political issue.

Well, that's the word we're stuck with. Just like everyone knows that Homophobes don't go in panic attacks when they see men kissing and that anti-semites actually don't hate non-jewish semitic people, people know that xenophobia isn't technically a phobia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 17, 2017, 11:31:49 am

Van plows through crowded boulevard in Barcelona. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40965581)
^{Plot twist: Antitourist terrorism. /s}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 17, 2017, 11:43:17 am

My family lives there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 17, 2017, 01:39:09 pm

13 deaths confirmed, they arrested one suspect. :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on August 17, 2017, 09:14:24 pm

Further things occurred in Barcelona.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 18, 2017, 03:28:40 am

Another terrorist attack in Spain. In the coastal town of Cambrils, 6 people were run over by a car and one woman was stabbed.
The police killed 5 terrorists wearing bombvests before they could do more harm. The bombvests turned out to be fake

Yesterday's attacker(s) that killed 13 and wounded over a 100 people is still at large. The police say they believe a cell of 8 people is behind yesterday's attack, and they had prepared an attack with gas bottles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 18, 2017, 03:40:42 am

Why would you wear fake bombvests? To make sure you're not captured alive?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 18, 2017, 03:42:18 am

Yeah, that's what I think too.
Bombvest >> gotta destroy the back of the brain

One of the 5 dead terrorists died hours later in hospital though, so I doubt they gave him a neckshot properly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 18, 2017, 03:52:14 am

Meanwhile, the Bulgarian president has called upon the EU to guard the EU's outer borders with armed force, if nescessary, saying that refugees will only stop coming if they know they'll find death here. To set an example, he sent the Bulgarian military to the Turkish border.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 09:16:03 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 18, 2017, 03:52:14 am

Meanwhile, the Bulgarian president has called upon the EU to guard the EU's outer borders with armed force, if nescessary, saying that refugees will only stop coming if they know they'll find death here. To set an example, he sent the Bulgarian military to the Turkish border.

Is he seriously implying that they'll (the Bulgarians) shoot the refugees on sight? It may just be inflated rhetoric, but still, that's not really something you say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 18, 2017, 09:26:28 am

It's just inflated rethoric, but scary nonetheless. Bulgaria knows damn well EU will kick them out if they shoot at unarmed refugees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 09:46:37 am

Seems like something he needs to be smacked upside the head for. :P (but hey, I'm just an american imperialist talking /major sarcasm )

Also, an incident in Finland. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40978446)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 10:41:12 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 09:46:37 am

Also, an incident in Finland. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40978446)

First day of vacation. There's a Lidl nearby. My sister and I was planning on going there around that time to buy groceries.

My sister chose instead a store much farther away from Kauppatori.

Comes home and my dad calls us.

I only now hear of this.

Fucking hell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 10:46:08 am

Glad you and your family are okay da_nang.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 10:49:19 am

All of my Spanish family accounted for now. My cousin apparently was in their apartment on the Rambla when it happened.

Also, again. Stop calling the immigrants refugees. They majority of them are not. They're just people entering the countries unlawfully and should be detained and sent back. Coming from Africa or Asia does not grant people extra migration privileges.

Personally, I have no problem with the military patrolling the border if the police and coast guard services isn't enough.

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 10:41:12 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 09:46:37 am

Also, an incident in Finland. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40978446)

First day of vacation. There's a Lidl nearby. My sister and I was planning on going there around that time to buy groceries.

My sister chose instead a store much farther away from Kauppatori.

Comes home and my dad calls us.

I only now hear of this.

Fucking hell.

I hope all of you and yours are okay as well, d_nang.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 18, 2017, 10:57:06 am

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 10:49:19 am

All of my Spanish family accounted for now. My cousin apparently was in their apartment on the Rambla when it happened.

Also, again. Stop calling the immigrants refugees. They majority of them are not. They're just people entering the countries unlawfully and should be detained and sent back. Coming from Africa or Asia does not grant people extra migration privileges.

Personally, I have no problem with the military patrolling the border if the police and coast guard services isn't enough.

Some of them are though. And refugees or economic migrants, they certainly shouldn't be shot on sight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 10:59:38 am

Quote from: Sheb on August 18, 2017, 10:57:06 am

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 10:49:19 am

All of my Spanish family accounted for now. My cousin apparently was in their apartment on the Rambla when it happened.

Also, again. Stop calling the immigrants refugees. They majority of them are not. They're just people entering the countries unlawfully and should be detained and sent back. Coming from Africa or Asia does not grant people extra migration privileges.

Personally, I have no problem with the military patrolling the border if the police and coast guard services isn't enough.

Some of them are though. And refugees or economic migrants, they certainly shouldn't be shot on sight.

His point is that they shouldn't ALL be labelled refugees because most of them aren't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 11:06:42 am

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

Would be crazy in the six degrees of separation sense if it were O.o There's no information on the attacker yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:33:58 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

What do you mean?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 01:36:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:33:58 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

What do you mean?

Probably shouldn't jump to conclusions on that particular person until the identity of the attacker is released.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:47:37 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 01:36:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:33:58 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

What do you mean?

Probably shouldn't jump to conclusions on that particular person until the identity of the attacker is released.

Only allusions to assumptions were made, hence my desire for clarification.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 02:02:53 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:47:37 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 01:36:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 01:33:58 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 11:02:03 am

I just hope it wasn't any of my Pakistani or Middle Eastern colleagues.

I've heard one of them mumble Allahu Akbar to himself plenty of times. I would normally just assume it's muslim prayers, but now...

What do you mean?

Probably shouldn't jump to conclusions on that particular person until the identity of the attacker is released.

Only allusions to assumptions were made, hence my desire for clarification.

The fear that I might have shared office space with a terrorist?

Doesn't appear to be the case anymore, if this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42ktuyfsHCA) is anything to go by. The person I was thinking of is bald. This suspect appears to have hair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 02:11:23 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 02:02:53 pm

The fear that I might have shared office space with a terrorist?

Who cares?  They obviously didnt kill you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 02:16:40 pm

Spoken like a true Basque

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 02:17:11 pm

Still a dick move to assume that 'cause someone is Asian and a practicing Muslim that they're capable of terrorism.

PPE: also kind of awful Basque etc.

Edit: can I be a terrorist, too? I was raised Catholic, have Irish heritage and don't particularly like Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 02:34:29 pm

It's survival instinct, being on the lookout for anything that can be construed as a danger. Early warnings and all that.

May be false warnings, but that's life.

Sorry if it offends anyone, but social trust is at a very low point right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 02:39:53 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 02:34:29 pm

It's survival instinct, being on the lookout for anything that can be construed as a danger. Early warnings and all that.

May be false warnings, but that's life.

Sorry if it offends anyone, but social trust is at a very low point right now.

If you're so concerned, I guess you can ask the coworker how come he is doing it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 02:46:31 pm

There is one little problem with telling someone "Don't worry about it, just cover your ears and go la la la la la because it isn't a big deal"

Human instinct is to panic more when someone does that.

ANYHOW... typically terrorists are second generation immigrants of Muslim families. So chances are they aren't a terrorist... and even then their targets are typically minorities and ideological groups rather than businesses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2017, 02:51:09 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 02:46:31 pm

There is one little problem with telling someone "Don't worry about it, just cover your ears and go la la la la la because it isn't a big deal"

Human instinct is to panic more when someone does that.

It's a freaking trope even.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 02:55:36 pm

Quote from: da_nang on August 18, 2017, 02:34:29 pm

It's survival instinct, being on the lookout for anything that can be construed as a danger. Early warnings and all that.

May be false warnings, but that's life.

Sorry if it offends anyone, but social trust is at a very low point right now.

It's not offensive, it's just kinda... sad, I guess, that you're that worried about something that is so vanishingly unlikely to happen that you think that someone belonging to a certain ethnic and/or religious group means they're more likely to kill you or otherwise cause you harm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 03:46:08 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 02:17:11 pm

Still a dick move to assume that 'cause someone is Asian and a practicing Muslim that they're capable of terrorism.

PPE: also kind of awful Basque etc.

Edit: can I be a terrorist, too? I was raised Catholic, have Irish heritage and don't particularly like Britain.

I'm sorry, I just got pissed over how when somebody literally just had an attack happen in their home town and is expressing their worries, your immediate reaction is to start up the ol' witch processing to find out if they're a vile racist or not.

@ChairmanPoo - I was going to apologise to you to, but then I looked down on your post and resaw what a fucking stupid thing that was to say, and now I'm pissed off again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 04:11:09 pm

I was supposed to be offended?   ???

By the way, my comment wasn't about racism at all. So I kind of think that you should reconsider your own priorities and biases.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 04:32:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Hey all I did was aim a gun at you, you didn't die so why do you care?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 04:55:09 pm

Quote from: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 04:32:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Hey all I did was aim a gun at you, you didn't die so why do you care?

Because I've  known to convicted killers in the past  and I consider this obsession with "oh  maybe my office mate was a killer or maybe not" kind of asinine. I dont see why would anyone dwell on that. Whats the point?  Again, they clearly didnt kill you in the past. Just as they didnt kill me. Whatever happened was a news item, not a personal experience.

Worth noting that he wasnt actually threatened in the attack, nor were his coworkers actually involved.

Come to think about it, it IS actually a bit racist to assume they were just because of their nationality, no?

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 03:46:08 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 02:17:11 pm

Still a dick move to assume that 'cause someone is Asian and a practicing Muslim that they're capable of terrorism.

PPE: also kind of awful Basque etc.

Edit: can I be a terrorist, too? I was raised Catholic, have Irish heritage and don't particularly like Britain.

I'm sorry, I just got pissed over how when somebody literally just had an attack happen in their home town and is expressing their worries, your immediate reaction is to start up the ol' witch processing to find out if they're a vile racist or not.

Liar, liar....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 04:58:08 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 04:55:09 pm

Because I've  known to convicted killers in the past  and I consider this obsession with "oh  maybe my office mate was a killer or maybe not" kind of asinine. I dont see why would anyone dwell on that. Whats the point?  Again, they clearly didnt kill you.

Because not everyone has the same feelings and reactions of you and some people genuinely do worry about it?

I mean I genuinely worry everyday just whether or not people on bay12 like me and actually stress over it... And a lot of people here find that ridiculous. But it doesn't make it less relevant to me.

The response to the "Violence Epidemic scare" wasn't "Well you aren't dead, why do you care?" it was showing people that there was no epidemic. Alleviating people's fears instead of dismissing them outright.

Not that dismissal of worries is the wrong answer... But in that case it better be because the person somehow invented a problem that simply wasn't there. Like how I watch you while you sleep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 05:09:59 pm

If your genuine worries seem silly to me I reserve the right to dismiss them.  Worrying about whether your cubicle mates might have been the terrorists in an attack is fairly pointless, and almost verges into paranoia.  Might as well begin  to worry whether  your current office mate is planning to kidnap and flay you to make a skinsuit.   The plain truth is, those people he worked with arent terrorists, and even if they had been they clearly werent when he meet them.  Once again, whatever happened afterwards is a news item and the proper response is "wow. Never would have guessed".  Or "I f*ing knew it".  Not, "OMG what if my coworker was actually a terrorist and he's now died in a suicide attack?" (Unless you're worried you'll have to do his half I guess)

Quote

. Like how I watch you while you sleep.

I DONT SLEEP (o)(o)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 05:21:22 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 04:55:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 03:46:08 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 02:17:11 pm

Still a dick move to assume that 'cause someone is Asian and a practicing Muslim that they're capable of terrorism.

PPE: also kind of awful Basque etc.

Edit: can I be a terrorist, too? I was raised Catholic, have Irish heritage and don't particularly like Britain.

I'm sorry, I just got pissed over how when somebody literally just had an attack happen in their home town and is expressing their worries, your immediate reaction is to start up the ol' witch processing to find out if they're a vile racist or not.

Liar, liar....

That's not to you, that's to hector. I was pissed of for his immediate insinuations about racism and for your stupid, callous comment. Two separate things.

Quote

Quote from: Neonivek on August 18, 2017, 04:32:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 18, 2017, 04:27:52 pm

I didn't say it was about racism, I said it was stupid. Because "well you didn't die so why do you care" is a stupid thing to say.

Hey all I did was aim a gun at you, you didn't die so why do you care?

Because I've  known to convicted killers in the past  and I consider this obsession with "oh  maybe my office mate was a killer or maybe not" kind of asinine. I dont see why would anyone dwell on that. Whats the point?  Again, they clearly didnt kill you in the past. Just as they didnt kill me. Whatever happened was a news item, not a personal experience.

Worth noting that he wasnt actually threatened in the attack, nor were his coworkers actually involved.

Come to think about it, it IS actually a bit racist to assume they were just because of their nationality, no?

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2017, 05:09:59 pm

If your genuine worries seem silly to me I reserve the right to dismiss them.  Worrying about whether your cubicle mates might have been the terrorists in an attack is fairly pointless, and almost verges into paranoia.  Might as well begin  to worry whether  your current office mate is planning to kidnap and flay you to make a skinsuit.   The plain truth is, those people he worked with arent terrorists, and even if they had been they clearly werent when he meet them.  Once again, whatever happened afterwards is a news item and the proper response is "wow. Never would have guessed".  Or "I f*ing knew it".  Not, "OMG what if my coworker was actually a terrorist and he's now died in a suicide attack?" (Unless you're worried you'll have to do his half I guess)

BEEP BOOP I AM A ROBOT EXPLAIN HOW THIS OBJECT CALLED [HUMAN EMOTIONS] FUNCTION

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2017, 05:33:02 pm

I made no insinuations about racism, I asked for clarification. I thought he was being racist, aye, I didn't want to jump the gun in case he wasn't though. Thinking someone you work with is a potential terrorist because they're brown and Muslim is kinda stupid, so I called it out.

Anyhow, we are sliding into being bastards to each other. I say we, but you and poo. Perhaps the best move right now would be to step back and grab a beer or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 19, 2017, 04:48:58 am

Police are now investigating the attack as a terrorist attack. The suspect is an 18-yo Moroccan.

Two dead Finns. The injured are two Swedes one Swede, one Briton, one Italian, and the rest Finnish, it seems. One is a minor.

EDIT: Apparently, one of the Swedes was a Briton.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Neonivek on August 19, 2017, 04:59:46 am

That is so sad...

Do they have a suspect for the motivation?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 19, 2017, 07:21:36 am

Five Moroccans are now arrested on possible connections. Another person is now wanted internationally.

Main suspect arrived to Finland in 2016 and had gone through the refugee process and had lived at a refugee facility.

Rumor mill is suggesting women may have been the motive/target (victims were eight women, two men), but nothing conclusive as witnesses claim the victims were chosen randomly.

Suspect is still being treated before he can be questioned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 19, 2017, 07:30:31 am

These people are lunatics. Make mass propaganda reach enough people, and sooner or later you'll find someone nuts enough to do whatever you want them to do. That's the danger of this modern variety of terrorism. There is no real way of making things foolproof against it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 19, 2017, 03:33:36 pm

Looks like the animosity between Spanish and Catalan officials (and general animosity between the two) may have contributed to the Spanish terror cell not being caught earlier. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/terror-cell-should-have-been-busted-by-spanish-cops) Not saying that it was THE reason why, but as we've seen in other cases in Europe (Belgium comes to mind) where authorities weren't really cooperating with each other as far as intel goes, the lack of cooperation between authorities can definetly cause problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 19, 2017, 04:35:18 pm

:/  I've not heard anything about that in Spanish media. And there are several pieces of the article which make me doubt the research behind it TBH. It's full of "it might" and "it seems".
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 19, 2017, 04:37:16 pm

Yea, it sounds more like populist scapegoating than anything really

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 19, 2017, 07:26:07 pm

There probably will be an investigation into how it seems to have flown under the radar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 19, 2017, 08:07:34 pm

Sadly the thing is, unless you turn your society into a full police state, there will always be things flying under the radar.
It's understandable that each events spurs the need to point fingers, but it's a waste of time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 20, 2017, 08:32:23 am

On the other hand, it's worth looking if there is something that should have been done and that wasn't. The fact that Belgium's police is so fractured is a problem. The fact that the Catalan police wasn't given access to Interpol data is retarded.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 20, 2017, 08:52:12 am

...upon further reflection, there *have* been ongoing conflicts between the different police forces for a while, it seems

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/2479400/0/reunion-interpol/mossos/policia-nacional/


However, according to this other interview, the vetting of the Mossos from the Interpol summits and interpol databases is not as much part of the goverment as it is SOP for interpol

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2015/06/05/55714a67e2704e51518b456b.html

Quote

Q: Catalonia has half of all salafist mosques in all Spain. Wouldn't it be more useful for prevention to grant the Mossos access to this [interpo] data?
A: Our aim is to coordinate police action, and for this a single channel must exist, functioning and safe. We organize countless meetings about all areas of global criminality in all member countries, and Interpol only deals directly with the State's security forces. We don't deal with any other police force. That's our policy

Q: wouldn't information flow  better establishing links with more police forces?
A: Quite the contrary. The more police forces involved, the more disorganized it is. Interpol doesn't directly work with counter terrorism units without the knowledge and the greenlight of the National Central Office [aka: the HQ of interpol in that country]. The Mossos already have a liaison in the NCO in Madrid

TBH at this point it could be anything. If there is politics involved, it likely has more to do with juristiction areas (aka: similar to how the police in an US state cannot pursue into another? This didn't use to be a thing in Spain but apparently a few years ago the law changed).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 20, 2017, 12:24:17 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 20, 2017, 08:52:12 am

...upon further reflection, there *have* been ongoing conflicts between the different police forces for a while, it seems

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/2479400/0/reunion-interpol/mossos/policia-nacional/


However, according to this other interview, the vetting of the Mossos from the Interpol summits and interpol databases is not as much part of the goverment as it is SOP for interpol

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2015/06/05/55714a67e2704e51518b456b.html

Quote

Q: Catalonia has half of all salafist mosques in all Spain. Wouldn't it be more useful for prevention to grant the Mossos access to this [interpo] data?
A: Our aim is to coordinate police action, and for this a single channel must exist, functioning and safe. We organize countless meetings about all areas of global criminality in all member countries, and Interpol only deals directly with the State's security forces. We don't deal with any other police force. That's our policy

Q: wouldn't information flow  better establishing links with more police forces?
A: Quite the contrary. The more police forces involved, the more disorganized it is. Interpol doesn't directly work with counter terrorism units without the knowledge and the greenlight of the National Central Office [aka: the HQ of interpol in that country]. The Mossos already have a liaison in the NCO in Madrid

TBH at this point it could be anything. If there is politics involved, it likely has more to do with juristiction areas (aka: similar to how the police in an US state cannot pursue into another? This didn't use to be a thing in Spain but apparently a few years ago the law changed).

Police juristicion areas still cooperate with each other when needed and you have the FBI for when things cross state lines. In the US, the FBI is the one that acts as a mediary hub that talks to specific jurdicisions when needed. There's also various databases for sharing information between jurdicisions. So, it's less than establishing links between jurdicisions than having databases of information that all of them can contribute to and look at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 20, 2017, 01:50:39 pm

Quote

Police juristicion areas still cooperate with each other when needed and you have the FBI for when things cross state lines. In the US, the FBI is the one that acts as a mediary hub that talks to specific jurdicisions when needed. There's also various databases for sharing information between jurdicisions. So, it's less than establishing links between jurdicisions than having databases of information that all of them can contribute to and look at.

Which is more or less what the interpol guy was saying.

I do know that there have been disputes when the police of an autonomous community crossed over into other region in pursuit.   Dunno what's the status quo at the moment, as its not something I've given much thought, tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 21, 2017, 04:16:45 am

The Netherlands has been chosen to house a new military logistics division, specifically created for maintaining all the 400 Joint Strike Fighters flying in the EU.
Good news for our treasury, I suppose, it's estimated to bring in hundreds of millions of euros a year. Bad news for becoming an even more strategic nuke target than we already were.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 21, 2017, 04:28:38 am

...Is that a damn marijuana pun? Man, the EU is really taking their game to the next level.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 21, 2017, 10:07:51 am

Quote from: scriver on August 21, 2017, 04:28:38 am

...Is that a damn marijuana pun? Man, the EU is really taking their game to the next level.

If it is, it's an accidential one as 'joint strike fighter' is a pretty common military term.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 21, 2017, 10:09:49 am

Spanish police announced they have located and captured the driver of the Barcelona attacks, and shot and kileld one guy with a bombvest today.

And no, no marijuana pun. It's just how the F-35 is called, the Joint Strike Fighter

EDIT: apparently, the guy wasn't captured, but killed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 23, 2017, 01:34:14 pm

In Rotterdam, a concert of the US rock band Allah-Las has been cancelled, and police and anti terror units have set a perimeter around the concert area to keep out concert visitors that were just arriving, because of a terrorist threat.


EDIT: A van with Spanish license plate, filled with gas canisters was found near the concert area. The van has been secured and the driver arrested. Looks like one of the Spanish bombmakers escaped to the Netherlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 23, 2017, 06:35:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on August 23, 2017, 01:34:14 pm

In Rotterdam, a concert of the US rock band Allah-Las has been cancelled, and police and anti terror units have set a perimeter around the concert area to keep out concert visitors that were just arriving, because of a terrorist threat.


EDIT: A van with Spanish license plate, filled with gas canisters was found near the concert area. The van has been secured and the driver arrested. Looks like one of the Spanish bombmakers escaped to the Netherlands.

Might have been the one that they were on a manhunt for.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 23, 2017, 07:04:22 pm

No they killed that one a few days ago

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 23, 2017, 11:25:04 pm

I thought they said that they had all of that cell accounted for, maybe not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 24, 2017, 03:10:38 am

The van driver has been released, with his van. Turned out to be a professional mechanic, who uses te gas bottles for his trade.
He has been fined for drunk driving though, he had a bit too much alcohol in his blood.

Police did catch a suspect in the south of the Netherlands, whom they say is connected to the terrorist threat to the concert.
Dutch police was tipped by Spanish police a terror attack was imminent. They're not giving out more info.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 25, 2017, 05:16:34 pm

At about the same time today in London, and in Brussels, a man attacked police officers with a knife.

In Brussels, a 30 year old Somalian shouting Allahu Akhbar attacked two police officers, who then shot the man. He died to his injuries in hospital a while later.
The two police officers were lightly injured.

In London, a man attacked 2 police officers with a knife too. They were both lightly injured to their arms, but managed to capture the man alive. The officers were treated at the scene and did not need to be hospitalized.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Paxiecrunchle on August 27, 2017, 05:44:42 pm

What a waste of human life, I'll never understand these people that want to travel around the world just to kill people they disagree with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 28, 2017, 07:29:41 pm

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/28/546840452/a-chemical-haze-stole-across-a-british-beach-and-no-one-knows-what-it-was

Strange chemical haze in England. old chemical weapon detonated on a shipwreck maybe? just my random speculation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 29, 2017, 06:01:13 am

Klaas Otto, founder and former foreman of Motorclub 'No Surrender' has been arrested in his prison cell, for plotting to assassinate the Dutch attorney general leading the case against him.
On the outside of prison, a 44 year old Dutch man has also been arrested, as the suspected hitman.

Otto founded No Surrender in 2013, and it got a lot of publicity when Dutch top criminal Willem Holleeder joined it's ranks for a while.
Under Otto's leadership, assisted by him appearing in the media frequently defending motorclubs from bad rep, it grew in just a few years from a town hobby club to an international motorclub with dozens of chapters.
Otto was already in prison awaiting trial for money laundry, extortion, involvement in an attack involving a handgrenade, and setting fire to a fellow member's home.
He was due to stand trial in two weeks.
Now there's attempted assassination added to the list.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 29, 2017, 10:05:42 am

Did he surrender, though?

Also, speaking of criminals, this fucking guy (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36596275).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 29, 2017, 01:30:19 pm

Yeah, my newspaper headlines said that if he's indeed guilty of all the crimes he's suspected of now, he's the biggest mass murderer in Germany since WW2

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on August 29, 2017, 03:44:57 pm

I doubt a lot of those will stick. They'll have to prove that his actions caused those patients to die, and that resuscitation would have been possible in the first place had he not intervened, wouldn't they?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 29, 2017, 03:52:25 pm

Well, they're trying to make that stick for the 84 patients that have not been cremated, and could be dug up for further investigation. They suspect him of many more (perhaps over a hundred), but those are never going to be proven, because the bodies were cremated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on August 29, 2017, 05:43:43 pm

Nepotism - kill people by accident because you're a shitty nurse but you keep your position because you're the doctor's nephew

VS.

Meritocracy - kill people to get that dank street cred as Spock the Good Doc

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 30, 2017, 02:31:00 pm

The 22 year old Dutch guy that was arrested two weeks ago in connection to the cancelled concert of Allah-la, turns out to be a student of Integral Safety Studies, and member of an international online organisation, 'Syria General' that infiltrates IS terror cells online.

In an attempt to bait an IS contact into divulging more information about an upcoming big attack in Spain, the guy bluffed that he himself was planning an attack in Rotterdam, at the Allah-la concert, hoping this would entice his IS contact to spill more information.

Spanish intelligence agencies intercepted that bluff message and relayed it to Dutch intelligence, who decided to cancel and quarantaine the concert, and raided the kid's parental home and took him to terrorist interrogation summer camp.

Had the Dutch intelligence agency looked at it's own data better, they would have known the guy wasn't a terrorist. He had been in contact with them before, supplying information.

For some reason though, the guy hasn't been released yet, yesterday the judge ruled that it was okay to hold him for longer. His restrictions were lifted today though, so his lawyer could share the story with the media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 30, 2017, 02:38:44 pm

I guess with the sudden change in plans of the Spanish group, the bluff attack ended up being too close for comfort for authorities?

I wonder how much that'll impact his willingness to cooperate or interact with the Dutch authorities, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 30, 2017, 06:30:11 pm

So the German election is soon, and I just ran across an analysis of it from 538, of all people. (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/six-charts-to-help-americans-understand-the-upcoming-german-election/) Anyone want to comment?

Warning: This article was written for an American audience and thus uses the American definitions for left, right, conservative, and liberal. Do not be deceived/angered by the description of militant socialists as very liberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 30, 2017, 07:21:46 pm

/me goes catatonic over the heresy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 30, 2017, 07:22:38 pm

Nurse! 150ccs of Das Kapital, stat!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 30, 2017, 07:28:56 pm

It doesn't actually call the socialist party very liberal, just labelled as 'The Left' and the chart says that they are anti-miltarism, which is not-militant.

If any of the parties are militant, it'd probably be AfD.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 31, 2017, 01:32:41 am

I dunno man, you can be very militantly against militarism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 31, 2017, 02:12:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 30, 2017, 07:28:56 pm

It doesn't actually call the socialist party very liberal, just labelled as 'The Left' and the chart says that they are anti-miltarism, which is not-militant.

If any of the parties are militant, it'd probably be AfD.

The Left is not the socialist part, the SPD is. (Sozialistische Partei Deutschland). The Left (Die Linke) is a groupe of various communists/far-left West German parties and the remains of the East German SED.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on August 31, 2017, 06:16:38 am

Quote from: Sheb on August 31, 2017, 02:12:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 30, 2017, 07:28:56 pm

It doesn't actually call the socialist party very liberal, just labelled as 'The Left' and the chart says that they are anti-miltarism, which is not-militant.

If any of the parties are militant, it'd probably be AfD.

The Left is not the socialist part, the SPD is. (Sozialistische Partei Deutschland). The Left (Die Linke) is a groupe of various communists/far-left West German parties and the remains of the East German SED.

How do those old communist parties actually manifest as policy nowadays though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on August 31, 2017, 08:25:28 am

As far as I know they're your fairly standard hard-left European party, similar to the Belgian PTB or to Melenchon's France Insoumise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 31, 2017, 08:31:34 am

Mid they're anything like the Swedish "the Left Party",  which is out old Communist Party, they're fairly non-revolutionary (but I doubt there's more than a tenth of them who weren't firebrands when they were youngsters ;) ), but highly anti-capitalist, highly EU-sceptic, and highly against privatisation of the public sphere and/or for republicisation of what has already been privatised.

I have pretty high opinion of that party. I feel are the only party left on the left wing that still has a moral bone in the body, and the only one that base their opinions on an ideology rather than what they think people want to hear. I guess it helps that they've had a bunch of likeable party leaders as well. In practice they lack much say about anything, but every once in a while you hear about them forcing the other "leftist" parties to agree to small things that make a difference. As far as I remember I have never actually voted for them myself though.

Then in Sweden there's there's also the other communist parties like KPML(r) (I hear they changed name a few years ago, but they'll always be "the Communist Party the Marxist-Leninists (the revolutionaries)" in my mind because the name is so hilarious) and one or two others of their kind that are still more hardline about socialism/communism and too foolish for me. I think even then don't have many Soviet deniers/idealisers left among them though, but I can't say that with certainty.

Eh, sorry for the rant on our parties when you asked about Germany's. Just wanted to share.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 06:20:13 am

France officially proposed using the seats left vacants by the British MEP to start electing some MEP on a transnational jurisdiction. I really hope that works!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 01, 2017, 06:43:17 am

Meanwhile, the Brexit negotiations have come to a complete stand still in round 3.
EU wants Britain to fulfull all it's financial obligations up until the end of the EU financial period in 2020, UK negotiators only want to pay up to 2019, UK voters don't even want to pay half that.
UK wants to retain access to the internal market after Brexit. EU is firmly against, blaming UK they want to have the cake and eat it.

The UK is a bit like Trump here. Build a wall to keep the immigrants out and make Mexico the EU pay for it.

I still predict the Brexit will eventually never happen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 01, 2017, 06:45:16 am

It'll happen, it will just be a mostly acrimonious split.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:16:25 am

I think it's fair that the Brits should fulfil the remaining time of such periods we are already in, but then they should also remain eligible for all grants and such up to that date.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 09:35:33 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 06:20:13 am

France officially proposed using the seats left vacants by the British MEP to start electing some MEP on a transnational jurisdiction. I really hope that works!

Sweeeeeeet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 10:35:28 am

Can I have a link on that? I couldn't find anything relevant and don't know what else to search for.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 10:40:29 am

They'd still have to ask to reverse the Article 50 thing in order to not have a Brexit, if the EU lets them reverse it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 10:51:19 am

smjjames: No, you don't get what I mean. France propose that the MEP seats currently used by Britain be allocated to a EU-wide district once Britain leave.

Scriver: I'll see if I find a source, I just saw it on the FB page of Guy Verofstadt. (Former Belgian PM and liberal MEP)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 11:09:07 am

Do you by that mean seats that aren't filled by country but by the EU itself?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on September 01, 2017, 11:11:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 10:51:19 am

smjjames: No, you don't get what I mean. France propose that the MEP seats currently used by Britain be allocated to a EU-wide district once Britain leave.

Scriver: I'll see if I find a source, I just saw it on the FB page of Guy Verofstadt. (Former Belgian PM and liberal MEP)

Boop. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/european-union-may-create-new-class-supranational-meps-brexit/)  This is from April, however, so it may not be the proposal you're thinking of.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 11:35:17 am

That is absolutely fucking disgusting.

Goodbye democracy. You had a good run, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 11:44:55 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 10:51:19 am

smjjames: No, you don't get what I mean. France propose that the MEP seats currently used by Britain be allocated to a EU-wide district once Britain leave.

Scriver: I'll see if I find a source, I just saw it on the FB page of Guy Verofstadt. (Former Belgian PM and liberal MEP)

I was responding to martinuzz's prediction that there won't be a Brexit.

How would they do the whole 'supranational' MEP thing anyway? Have the other MEPs vote on them? Going 'supranational' would be getting to the level where you'd typically be voting on an individual to represent the whole EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on September 01, 2017, 12:03:59 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 11:44:55 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 10:51:19 am

smjjames: No, you don't get what I mean. France propose that the MEP seats currently used by Britain be allocated to a EU-wide district once Britain leave.

Scriver: I'll see if I find a source, I just saw it on the FB page of Guy Verofstadt. (Former Belgian PM and liberal MEP)

I was responding to martinuzz's prediction that there won't be a Brexit.

How would they do the whole 'supranational' MEP thing anyway? Have the other MEPs vote on them? Going 'supranational' would be getting to the level where you'd typically be voting on an individual to represent the whole EU.

It sounded like they want to do MEPs whose constituency crosses over borders so they represent people from multiple countries at once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 12:09:58 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on September 01, 2017, 12:03:59 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 11:44:55 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 10:51:19 am

smjjames: No, you don't get what I mean. France propose that the MEP seats currently used by Britain be allocated to a EU-wide district once Britain leave.

Scriver: I'll see if I find a source, I just saw it on the FB page of Guy Verofstadt. (Former Belgian PM and liberal MEP)

I was responding to martinuzz's prediction that there won't be a Brexit.

How would they do the whole 'supranational' MEP thing anyway? Have the other MEPs vote on them? Going 'supranational' would be getting to the level where you'd typically be voting on an individual to represent the whole EU.

It sounded like they want to do MEPs whose constituency crosses over borders so they represent people from multiple countries at once.

Still begs the question of how they'd do that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 12:11:28 pm

Basically, right now the EU is divided in a number of sub-national district that (some countries are a single district) each elect a number of MEP. This would in addition create a EU-wide district that would elect 50-odds MEP, so you'd be electing one guy that would compete in your sub-national distrist, and then also voting for an "at-large" MEP from the EU district.

Scriver, I'll need help to see how that is the disgusting end of democracy.


Edit: Part of the confusion might be of what you Americans think of as constituency. The European Parliaments constituency don't elect a single member each. For exemple, I'm in the French-speaking Belgian constitiency, which sends 8 members to the EP, appoint proportionnaly. (Belgiuam also has a flemish speaking constituency sending 12 MEP, and a German-speaking one sending 1 MEP. Scriver's Sweden has a single constituency sending 20 MEP.

Under this proposal, a new, EU wide constituency would be created, electing ~60 MEP proportionally in addition to the national ones. The idea is to force some part of the parliament to run on EU-wide issues rather than national one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 12:26:24 pm

I'm still confused what is considered a consistuency for the EU, by the language they speak? Ethnicity? Citizenship?

Sounds like an attempt to make it into two houses of Parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 12:33:37 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 11:35:17 am

That is absolutely fucking disgusting.
Goodbye democracy. You had a good run, I guess.

Europe was already kill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 12:34:18 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 12:11:28 pm

Scriver, I'll need help to see how that is the disgusting end of democracy.

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you ascribe to the "It's totally fine that the wolves decides what's for dinner" school of "democratic" thought, Sheb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on September 01, 2017, 12:38:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 12:26:24 pm

I'm still confused what is considered a consistuency for the EU, by the language they speak? Ethnicity? Citizenship?

Some member states have one constituency that's country wide, others have multiple ones divided up in their own territory. The amount of constituents to MEP seems to vary pretty heavily, which is just plain old bad design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_constituency

There's a list of them there.

Quote

Sounds like an attempt to make it into two houses of Parliament.

Not at all, just a way to avoid a squabble over which country gets the abandoned seats given to them or a consistutional issue from just dissolving the seats outright.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 12:42:46 pm

Spread them out evenly among members maybe? Also sounds like they never planned for in case the number of MEPs goes down and the seats are vacant for whatever reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 12:52:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 12:34:18 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 12:11:28 pm

Scriver, I'll need help to see how that is the disgusting end of democracy.

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you ascribe to the "It's totally fine that the wolves decides what's for dinner" school of "democratic" thought, Sheb.

I dont understand what the hell you're talking about either. Can you tone down the "lol xd ebin meme" and actually elaborate?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 01:02:52 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 12:52:06 pm

I dont understand what the hell you're talking about either. Can you tone down the "lol xd ebin meme" and actually elaborate?

The wolves at dinner with the sheep metaphor, wherein the wolves and sheep sit at the dinner table and hold a vote on what to have for dinner. The wolves inevitably vote for the sheep :]

In this regard, there is a divide that can be generalized between the two factions in yurop, but I'm guessing both imagine the other as the wolf

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 01:04:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 01:02:52 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 12:52:06 pm

I dont understand what the hell you're talking about either. Can you tone down the "lol xd ebin meme" and actually elaborate?

The wolves at dinner with the sheep metaphor, wherein the wolves and sheep sit at the dinner table and hold a vote on what to have for dinner. The wolves inevitably vote for the sheep :]

In this regard, there is a divide that can be generalized between the two factions in yurop, but I'm guessing both imagine the other as the wolf

I get the metaphor, I just dont understand how using the abandoned british MEP seats as a kind of whole-europe constituency is the death of democracy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 01:19:00 pm

If seats are allocated supranationally as Sheb said I assume they will be weighted a capita. This will place even more power over the less populated countries in the hands of the extremely populated countries, ie Germany, France, and Italy.

Basically, with the UK in the system, the five biggest actors (German, France, Italy, UK, and Spain, from biggest to lowest) hold a ridiculous 49% of the vote. With the UK removed, you basically have a situation where the UK's 10% more or less gets handed over to the other big countries, resulting in an even bigger power shift to them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 01, 2017, 01:19:39 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 01:04:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 01:02:52 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 01, 2017, 12:52:06 pm

I dont understand what the hell you're talking about either. Can you tone down the "lol xd ebin meme" and actually elaborate?

The wolves at dinner with the sheep metaphor, wherein the wolves and sheep sit at the dinner table and hold a vote on what to have for dinner. The wolves inevitably vote for the sheep :]

In this regard, there is a divide that can be generalized between the two factions in yurop, but I'm guessing both imagine the other as the wolf

I get the metaphor, I just dont understand how using the abandoned british MEP seats as a kind of whole-europe constituency is the death of democracy

Because, I assume, EU=Bad™.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 01:27:44 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on September 01, 2017, 01:19:39 pm

Because, I assume, EU=Bad™.

I just posted why.

Also, you are aware that the EU is an extremely neoliberal organisation which exists among other things to protect "European" trade interests abroad, which invariable involves exploiting and stepping on African and Asian countries a la neocolonialism, right? The EU is not the kind of thing you want to support if you want a clear conscience.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 01:32:25 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 01:27:44 pm

Also, you are aware that the EU is an extremely neoliberal organisation which exists among other things to protect "European" trade interests abroad, which invariable involves exploiting and stepping on African and Asian countries a la neocolonialism, right? The EU is not the kind of thing you want to support if you want a clear conscience.

There's nothing more post-colonial than creating a new age of european world hegemony m8
do u even progress
_{This is sarcastic btw. In this world that we live in, can't take it for granted that the sarcasm is clear}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 01:35:14 pm

Maybe something better would be something like what Italy has with the upper Senate or something that is made of mostly non-political people to act as advisors. They'd be people like Nobel prize winners, well known philosophers, scientists, economists, etc from the various EU member nations.

The thing is that when you go 'supranational', there isn't any sort of equivalent 'suprastate/province' thing for the political portion of government in any nation that I know of where one person represents a bunch of states/provinces/political regions together as a subset of the whole 'nation'. There's something like that for the Judicary branch, so, I get the concept.

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 01:27:44 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on September 01, 2017, 01:19:39 pm

Because, I assume, EU=Bad™.

I just posted why.

Also, you are aware that the EU is an extremely neoliberal organisation which exists among other things to protect "European" trade interests abroad, which invariable involves exploiting and stepping on African and Asian countries a la neocolonialism, right? The EU is not the kind of thing you want to support if you want a clear conscience.

Not to mention that the whole government and beurauacracy sounds like it was inefficiently designed by a committee that wanted total soveriegnity among it's founders and member states while acting as if part of a supranation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 01:37:11 pm

But scriver, don't you see that the EU is the head of a new civilized and rational world order, and who's natural ally China will be able to break the American imperialist hegemony?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 03:21:49 pm

Well, yeah, it would give slightly less of an advantage to smaller countries in the EU parliament, but gosh, calm down scriver. We're talking of less than 10% of the seats. I mean, the discussion of how it would turn out and how it would (or wouldn't) change the balance of power within the EU is an interesting one, but that's a discussion that we can't have if you answer to that by "Well, democracy is over, we might as well elect Hitler God-Chancellor of Yurop".

So if you're willing to act reasonably, I'll be glad to discuss this in more details. Otherwise, I'll also (although sadly less) be glad to answer with equally ridiculous over the top claims in the opposite direction, and we can wallow in our own shit while LW laugh like the reincarnation of Nyarlatothep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 01, 2017, 04:36:05 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 01:27:44 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on September 01, 2017, 01:19:39 pm

Because, I assume, EU=Bad™.

I just posted why.

Also, you are aware that the EU is an extremely neoliberal organisation which exists among other things to protect "European" trade interests abroad, which invariable involves exploiting and stepping on African and Asian countries a la neocolonialism, right? The EU is not the kind of thing you want to support if you want a clear conscience.

Are you going to start having a real discussion now, rather than "democracy is dead"? Sorry, no-can-do, I'm a clueless american who can only quip.

Also that reply you put up while I was being snarky, and I'm not going to throw out a perfectly good quip just because it's no longer relevant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on September 01, 2017, 05:24:45 pm

I think there are two main points to consider with a hypothetical EU-wide district:

1) The effect it has on the power of the EU as a state relative to its member governments
2) The effect on the distribution of power between the member states relative to each other

Spoiler: My very american opinion (click to show/hide)

How it actually spins out depends hugely on how the election rules are written. However, whatever the electoral system for the seats ends up being, I think with regard to the first point it's certainly a move towards centralization of both the EU as a state and a centralization of its politics. Any party or candidate that succeeds in an EU-wide election would benefit from very broad appeal that concerns the EU as a whole; I suspect these seats will be filled typically by groups who are chiefly divided by either having stated aims that strongly oppose EU centralization or those who state strong support for EU policies and centralization. This may sound like it could go either way, pushing the EU towards either centralization or decentralization depending on the results, but I think it's key to understand that by filling these seats through an EU-wide election, that in itself will have a centralizing effect, because it'll reward the groups that are better able to campaign internationally on EU-wide politics and create a vested interest among those elected at the very least to preserve their own position. Even if the EU district ends up at first being dominated by nationalist populists trying to dismantle the EU, I doubt those people elected would ever seek to destroy their own seats, for instance, and their international campaigning would only bring politics towards greater EU-wide homogenization. Essentially, it shifts the conversation itself more towards the EU and away from the member states.

With the second point, which I think is what scriver was mostly calling attention to, how the power ends up distributed between smaller and larger member states seems mostly unknowable until the election rules are set. I think the larger states will have clear disproportionate influence under most circumstances however, even if the rules ended up being geared towards proportionality. The political groups from the larger states will not only have the obvious natural advantage among voters of their nationality, but also more potential for international recognition and a platform that has already refined the strategy of vague unideological appeals necessary to win over large districts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2017, 05:41:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 03:21:49 pm

Well, yeah, it would give slightly less of an advantage to smaller countries in the EU parliament, but gosh, calm down scriver. We're talking of less than 10% of the seats. I mean, the discussion of how it would turn out and how it would (or wouldn't) change the balance of power within the EU is an interesting one, but that's a discussion that we can't have if you answer to that by "Well, democracy is over, we might as well elect Hitler God-Chancellor of Yurop".
So if you're willing to act reasonably, I'll be glad to discuss this in more details. Otherwise, I'll also (although sadly less) be glad to answer with equally ridiculous over the top claims in the opposite direction, and we can wallow in our own shit while LW laugh like the reincarnation of Nyarlatothep.

Absolutely c h a o s h

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 05:52:51 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 01, 2017, 03:21:49 pm

Well, yeah, it would give slightly less of an advantage to smaller countries in the EU parliament, but gosh, calm down scriver. We're talking of less than 10% of the seats. I mean, the discussion of how it would turn out and how it would (or wouldn't) change the balance of power within the EU is an interesting one, but that's a discussion that we can't have if you answer to that by "Well, democracy is over, we might as well elect Hitler God-Chancellor of Yurop".

So if you're willing to act reasonably, I'll be glad to discuss this in more details. Otherwise, I'll also (although sadly less) be glad to answer with equally ridiculous over the top claims in the opposite direction, and we can wallow in our own shit while LW laugh like the reincarnation of Nyarlatothep.

All in all it's just another brick in the wall

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on September 01, 2017, 05:57:02 pm

Wait, scriver - how is adding more direct democracy the end of democracy? I get that the EU is hardly the best supranational organization, but that doesn't mean that this supranational-representative thing is anti-democratic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 06:03:42 pm

Quote from: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on September 01, 2017, 05:57:02 pm

Wait, scriver - how is adding more direct democracy the end of democracy? I get that the EU is hardly the best supranational organization, but that doesn't mean that this supranational-representative thing is anti-democratic.

Because it'd potentially be the beginning of the end of the full sovereignity that the EU nations enjoy. Unless they go for an UN type structure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:09:17 pm

Quote from: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on September 01, 2017, 05:57:02 pm

Wait, scriver - how is adding more direct democracy the end of democracy? I get that the EU is hardly the best supranational organization, but that doesn't mean that this supranational-representative thing is anti-democratic.

Fifty thousand Englishmen and five hundred Algonquians vote on how to divide the land. The Algonquians have to move away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 06:27:54 pm

Does the EU have one house or two houses of parliament? Or maybe better distribution of MEPs? The American equivalent of the five biggest actors having almost half the vote would be like California, Texas, New York, Florida, and Illinois making up almost half of the House of Representatives. Except they don't, they take up about 37%, bit over a third.

Perhaps major reform is simply needed to balance out things. Of course though, the big states won't want to lose their collective almost half of parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 01, 2017, 06:33:48 pm

My perception is that it's much more a North vs South problem (namely, the former shafting the latter)  than big countries vs small ones. 

Of course, if you are in the south AND  small, you get doubly shafted. Hence the situation in Greece >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:46:32 pm

Which I think is a funny view because the countries in the North is the ones paying for the whole Eu project yet are completely powerless over EU policy and financing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 06:48:54 pm

More West vs East than North vs South.

It still comes down to "Why should <politician from x country> represent us when they in fact, don't?" or some variant of that because the member states still think of themselves as independent states contributing to a community project than states with limited autonomy that are part of a greater whole. Aside from the original 13 colonies and the period where we were still figuring out how to do things, the only states which were ever a nation in their own right are Hawaii (Polynesian kingdom) and Texas. California had a federal thing really briefly while waiting for statehood, but not sure if that counts.

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:46:32 pm

Which I think is a funny view because the countries in the North is the ones paying for the whole Eu project yet are completely powerless over EU policy and financing.

I thought Germany and France are the financial engines of the whole thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:56:48 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 06:48:54 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:46:32 pm

Which I think is a funny view because the countries in the North is the ones paying for the whole Eu project yet are completely powerless over EU policy and financing.

I thought Germany and France are the financial engines of the whole thing?

Not per capita, and Germany and France have the most power to go with their contributions as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 06:57:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 06:48:54 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 06:46:32 pm

Which I think is a funny view because the countries in the North is the ones paying for the whole Eu project yet are completely powerless over EU policy and financing.

I thought Germany and France are the financial engines of the whole thing?

scriver's EU differs significantly from the corresponding organization on our plane of existence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:04:30 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 06:57:47 pm

scriver's EU differs significantly from the corresponding organization on our plane of existence.

Link 1 (https://www.europaportalen.se/2016/03/svenskarna-har-nast-hogsta-eu-avgiften) Link 2 (http://www.eu-upplysningen.se/Om-EU/EUs-budget/Vad-EU-landerna-betalar-och-vad-de-far-tillbaka/)

(toady: edited for reports)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 07:09:33 pm

You could do that without getting nasty scriver :P

I don't read swedish, what exactly is it showing? Tried feeding the page through google translate and it didn't work for the map.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Sweet, an insult coupled with links in a language you know I do not speak. Classy. Look, if you're going to pull a basic statistics con like calculating one variable per capita and one variable in absolute terms, I'm going to call you out on it.

Fun fact, for anyone else reading this: EU election rules make sure that the votes by people from less populous countries are weighted much more heavily than the votes from more populous ones. For example you need about a million German votes to get a seat in Parliament, but only about eighty thousand Maltese ones - that's less than a tenth.
And remember, the proposal we're discussing would move this ever so slightly in the direction of one man, one vote. That's what scriver calls 'death of democracy'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 07:27:11 pm

Also, as an American, I have ABSOLUTELY no clue as to what the politics and economics are behind what scrivers disagreement is. Throwing a random statistic doesn't help me understand the problem either. I get the idea of small states wanting an equal voice to the big ones and not get crowded out by the big ones, that's the kind of compromise and wrangling that the 13 colonies had to deal with. The smaller colonies wanted at least equal voice as the big colonies.

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Fun fact, for anyone else reading this: EU election rules make sure that the votes by people from less populous countries are weighted much more heavily than the votes from more populous ones. For example you need about a million German votes to get a seat in Parliament, but only about eighty thousand Maltese ones - that's less than a tenth.
And remember, the proposal we're discussing would move this ever so slightly in the direction of one man, one vote. That's what scriver calls 'death of democracy'.

That sounds similar to the way the electoral college is proportioned.

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Sweet, an insult coupled with links in a language you know I do not speak. Classy. Look, if you're going to pull a basic statistics con like calculating one variable per capita and one variable in absolute terms, I'm going to call you out on it.

Google translates the stuff below the map, but even then....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:33:49 pm

Remember, we're talking about a parliament that's being elected, not a single president. A closer analogy would be eg. California having congressional districts with a million people each, while Maine had congressional districts with a hundred thousand people each. It's laughable, really - to ensure fairness among states of different sizes, you have the second chamber, there's no need to mess with the voting process in quite frankly arbitrary ways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:34:48 pm

The first link is a news article that has several maps over fees/grants to/from the EU as well as netto and per capita (Choose "Netto (avgift - bidrag) per person" to get net gains per capita). Redder means they pay more, greener means they get more. The three Nordic EU countries are all in the top six, which is made out from, in order from most paying, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, and Finland. In strict numbers Germany, France, and Italy pays the most, but if you look and what people are actually paying per person that isn't true.

The second link is to the Swedish government organ which the newspaper got the numbers from.

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Sweet, an insult coupled with links in a language you know I do not speak. Classy.

Don't act all coy and offended. Don't throw shit if you can't handle being told to stick it back up your arse.

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Look, if you're going to pull a basic statistics con like calculating one variable per capita and one variable in absolute terms, I'm going to call you out on it.

Then please do. What con?

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Fun fact, for anyone else reading this: EU election rules make sure that the votes by people from less populous countries are weighted much more heavily than the votes from more populous ones. For example you need about a million German votes to get a seat in Parliament, but only about eighty thousand Maltese ones - that's less than a tenth.
And remember, the proposal we're discussing would move this ever so slightly in the direction of one man, one vote. That's what scriver calls 'death of democracy'.

The wolves and the sheep, people. One animal, one vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 07:36:00 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:33:49 pm

Remember, we're talking about a parliament that's being elected, not a single president. A closer analogy would be eg. California having congressional districts with a million people each, while Maine had congressional districts with a hundred thousand people each. It's laughable, really - to ensure fairness among states of different sizes, you have the second chamber, there's no need to mess with the voting process in quite frankly arbitrary ways.

Which is exactly what I was suggesting, a second chamber. I had it in the upper post and was going to move it here, moving it here anyway:


edit: Took a quick look at wiki and the EU parliament only has one house. Maybe that should become equivalent to the House of Representatives, House of Commons, or whatever lower house and make an upper house and call that the Senate (or whatever you want) and elect a certain number of representatives, lets call them Senators, from each country and have them sit in there. Would that be more ideal scriver?

This is the kind of compromise that the 13 original colonies came up with, and they had the exact same problem of larger population states vs smaller population states.

I'm sorry for shoving the American system on you, but there's a solution in there. Might not be the absolute best solution, but it's one that has worked for us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:41:13 pm

So Sweden is filled with cannibals? Or how do you guys elect the Riksdag?

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:34:48 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Look, if you're going to pull a basic statistics con like calculating one variable per capita and one variable in absolute terms, I'm going to call you out on it.

Then please do. What con?

It says so right in the damn quote. You're measuring payments to the EU on a per capita basis, but are complaining that small countries do not get enough aggregate influence. Connecting the two, you cry out about what a grave injustice is being committed. It's a classic swindle, and not a particularly good one.

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:34:48 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Sweet, an insult coupled with links in a language you know I do not speak. Classy.

Don't act all coy and offended. Don't throw shit if you can't handle being told to stick it back up your arse.

It's called civility. If you like I'll quote the forum rules to you, but I think it's easier for everyone if you just head over there and treat yourself to a refresher autonomously.


E: smj: We have the commission, where every country supplies one commissioner, and also the veto power for each country. It's not exactly a second house, but it's analogous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 07:47:11 pm

And I'm back to not being sure what scriver is complaining about. Does he mean like he wants one country, one vote? Or maybe three per, to expand representation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:52:28 pm

scriver wants Sweden to reign supreme. Any meddling from outside he considers unjustifiable. Consequently what he is advocating is a Europe atomized into completely sovereign nation states. How he deludes himself into thinking this would lead to brotherly cooperation as opposed to the law of the jungle is beyond me, especially since we have plenty of historical and current precedent for the latter.

But hey, Germany will once again be free to pressure Sweden into giving us cheap ore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 08:13:06 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:41:13 pm

So Sweden is filled with cannibals? Or how do you guys elect the Riksdag?

Sweden is a place where people feels a bond and accountability to their fellow Swedes. You know, basic solidarity. There exist no bond between Frenchmen and German and the Swedish people, they don't give a flying fuck about us, our ways, or our interests. That is the difference between the sheep and the wolves.

Quote

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:34:48 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Look, if you're going to pull a basic statistics con like calculating one variable per capita and one variable in absolute terms, I'm going to call you out on it.

Then please do. What con?

It says so right in the damn quote. You're measuring payments to the EU on a per capita basis, but are complaining that small countries do not get enough aggregate influence. Connecting the two, you cry out about what a grave injustice is being committed. It's a classic swindle, and not a particularly good one.

The comment was about blame for what happens to southern countries being put on the northern countries despite how we both pay the most (the money which go mainly to southern countries) and don't have any influence in the EU to set any kind of policy which is to detriment of the south regardless. Separate things. There is no "con" in the way you describe. You are literally imagining things, yet calls me crazy.

Quote

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 07:34:48 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 07:16:56 pm

Sweet, an insult coupled with links in a language you know I do not speak. Classy.

Don't act all coy and offended. Don't throw shit if you can't handle being told to stick it back up your arse.

It's called civility. If you like I'll quote the forum rules to you, but I think it's easier for everyone if you just head over there and treat yourself to a refresher autonomously.

This is an insult:

Quote from: Helgoland on September 01, 2017, 06:57:47 pm

scriver's EU differs significantly from the corresponding organization on our plane of existence.

Making demeaning and passive aggressive slights above people's heads is not "civility", it's called "picking fights".

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 07:47:11 pm

And I'm back to not being sure what scriver is complaining about. Does he mean like he wants one country, one vote? Or maybe three per, to expand representation.

What is it you don't understand, more precisely?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 08:19:06 pm

@scriver: I think helgo described it. Plus what you said to helgo.

Maybe a new constitution needs to be written up which can be voted on by either the respective parliaments of each country or voted on as a whole by each countries population? *shrug emoticon*

Satisfying everybody would obviously be impossible, but surely there's a middle ground somewhere?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 08:26:05 pm

Such is the paradox of federalism. You can gain in some ways, but only if you sacrifice massively in others. It's hard to see in advance what will fall into each category, and it's not static either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2017, 08:33:11 pm

I don't want Sweden to "reign supreme", I want Swedes to have the biggest say over what laws govern Swedes.

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 08:19:06 pm

Maybe a new constitution needs to be written up which can be voted on by either the respective parliaments of each country or voted on as a whole by each countries population? *shrug emoticon*

Like the Lisbon Treaty ten years ago, where they just kept forcing new referendums over and over again until they got the result they wanted?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 08:37:09 pm

So are you principally anti-EU or alter-EU? I have a hard time telling, since your arguments are typically directed at the procedural faults of the existing EU government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 08:59:52 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 08:33:11 pm

I don't want Sweden to "reign supreme", I want Swedes to have the biggest say over what laws govern Swedes.

Isn't that what the veto power is for?

As MSH said, it's hard to tell whether you're anti-EU (as in Sweexit, no EU at all) or 'change the way the EU government works'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Toady One on September 01, 2017, 09:27:50 pm

The dreaded day has come!  Report in the EU thread!  I don't understand anything!  But somebody told somebody to fuck off!  Don't do that!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 08:26:05 pm

Such is the paradox of federalism. You can gain in some ways, but only if you sacrifice massively in others. It's hard to see in advance what will fall into each category, and it's not static either.

Its probably the inevitable next stage of development for most places to form some kind of super-national confederation. then of course those make the component parts of a overarching world parliament. I think people have a tendency to thing of this as as making those confederations states but that will never happen. The idea isn't a world united states but a world where international things are handled internationally and more local things are handled by the nest step down and so on. people need to recognize the inevitable and work to shape it in a good way not cling to a rosy view of abstract sovereignty. so what I'm saying is make the EU good don't tear it down people you are only hurting yourselves. start working together god dammit because there's no other way and the state system cant last forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on September 01, 2017, 10:41:21 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 08:26:05 pm

Such is the paradox of federalism. You can gain in some ways, but only if you sacrifice massively in others. It's hard to see in advance what will fall into each category, and it's not static either.

Its probably the inevitable next stage of development for most places to form some kind of super-national confederation. then of course those make the component parts of a overarching world parliament. I think people have a tendency to thing of this as as making those confederations states but that will never happen. The idea isn't a world united states but a world where international things are handled internationally and more local things are handled by the nest step down and so on. people need to recognize the inevitable and work to shape it in a good way not cling to a rosy view of abstract sovereignty. so what I'm saying is make the EU good don't tear it down people you are only hurting yourselves. start working together god dammit because there's no other way and the state system cant last forever.

We shouldn't forget that the EU started off as a free trade agreement and a means of regulating the coal and steel industries, and 'would never' get to the point where an EU army or common tax policy were seriously considered. Yet here we are. What I'll say is inevitable is federal bodies gradually taking on more power for themselves at the expense of local governments. They may genuinely believe that it's for the greater good, or the leadership may just be frustrated with what they see as a pointless obstacle, but either way they're usually successful in turning the resources of the rest of the federation inward when met with resistance and the EU has been no exception.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2017, 03:30:09 am

Quote from: Toady One on September 01, 2017, 09:27:50 pm

The dreaded day has come!  Report in the EU thread!  I don't understand anything!  But somebody told somebody to fuck off!  Don't do that!

Thanks Toady!

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 08:13:06 pm

Sweden is a place where people feels a bond and accountability to their fellow Swedes. You know, basic solidarity. There exist no bond between Frenchmen and German and the Swedish people, they don't give a flying fuck about us, our ways, or our interests. That is the difference between the sheep and the wolves.

If it's any consolation I'm against Sweden imploding itself despite feeling little solidarity with or understanding of Sweden

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

Its probably the inevitable next stage of development for most places to form some kind of super-national confederation.

lad if you want people to sacrifice their countries, states and countrymen for the sake of globalist pensions you're best giving reasons that don't start with "it's probably inevitable lol".

Look at how I see it; people are not good arbiters of what is inevitable, any more than the liberals or communists who were convinced that their worldviews would inevitably conquer the world. So if we then take the words of people who have a direct stake in dismantling your country that it is true, the dismantling is inevitable therefore we should help them dismantle our country, we're ignoring likewise that an inevitable destination does not preclude choosing how we get there or what form it takes. Blind obedience to the EU because you imagine the EU as this destiny is nothing short of dangerous.

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

then of course those make the component parts of a overarching world parliament. I think people have a tendency to thing of this as as making those confederations states but that will never happen. The idea isn't a world united states but a world where international things are handled internationally and more local things are handled by the nest step down and so on.

If the idea isn't a world united states but a world where international things are handled internationally, why are you supporting a federal continental-state instead of multilateral relations between nations? If you truly don't want a world united states, why then is your first step to create a united states of europe? These are self-contradicting objectives.

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

people need to recognize the inevitable and work to shape it in a good way not cling to a rosy view of abstract sovereignty.

Sovereignty is the supremacy of your own countrymen over your own country; sacrificing that very real potency in order to become the subject of a foreign bureaucracy makes little sense to me, as not only have you no way to shape the developing bureaucracy, you have now then also lost much of your own ability to shape your own country's future. The countries of europe have lost control of their borders, currency, laws, trade, regulations, resources, their flags secondary, their sovereigns subjects, unable to represent themselves internationally or within Europe, their foreign policies either dictated by another or in defiance of another, to surrender yet more powers with no choice of refusal even when their peoples oppose surrender - must they lose their armed forces and states too in the vain name of ambition? How can a single citizen of any European nation compare the influence they have over their local politics to the sheer disparity in political and economic resources available to the EU elite & their attendant lobbyists, advisors and employers?

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 01, 2017, 09:55:49 pm

so what I'm saying is make the EU good don't tear it down people you are only hurting yourselves. start working together god dammit because there's no other way and the state system cant last forever.

protip: cooperation and union are not the same things

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 02, 2017, 04:00:05 am

Quote from: Toady One on September 01, 2017, 09:27:50 pm

The dreaded day has come!  Report in the EU thread!  I don't understand anything!  But somebody told somebody to fuck off!  Don't do that!

Please don't forget to keep it friendly and polite folks.

Also, really? Was this the first report in the EU thread ever? Former incident aside, I'm proud of y'all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

Quote from: Baffler on September 01, 2017, 10:41:21 pm

We shouldn't forget that the EU started off as a free trade agreement and a means of regulating the coal and steel industries, and 'would never' get to the point where an EU army or common tax policy were seriously considered. Yet here we are. What I'll say is inevitable is federal bodies gradually taking on more power for themselves at the expense of local governments. They may genuinely believe that it's for the greater good, or the leadership may just be frustrated with what they see as a pointless obstacle, but either way they're usually successful in turning the resources of the rest of the federation inward when met with resistance and the EU has been no exception.

You had fairly strong political support for a political federation ("united state of Europe") from day one. In some ways, it seems those ideas were more poular then than now, a Federal Europe was very much in the post-war Zeitgeist. I mean, even during the War there was an official proposal to merge France and the UK into a single country. In addition, the "ever closer union" has been a thing since the 1983 Solemn Declaration of the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_Declaration_on_European_Union), 10 years even before the Single Market. Pretending the political union was snuck in is historical revisionism.

---

Now, to make things clearer to our Americans reader, we actually have something approaching a "Upper House" in the European Council (not to be mixed with the Council of the European Union, or worse, the Council of Europe. Isn't  Europe fun? :p ). The European Council is made of the relevant minister from each of the government (so if it's an agricultural rule, it'll be the agriculture ministers and so on) and they also vote on EU law. In addition, for a lot of matter (migration, EU taxation, new country joining the  EU, EU citizenship and some others) the council vote need to be unanimous, so every country got a veto.

In addition to that, seats in the European Parliament are also skewed so that smaller states get a higher share than their population alone would warrant, with a mimum of 6 seats each (out of 750). So Malta acount for 0.8% of seats but 0.08% of the population, while Germany account for 15.97 percent of the population but 12.8% of seats. (The cutting point is between Poland (38 millions inhabitants) and Romania (19 millions inhabitant): the bigger six countries are underrepresented, the bottom 22 are overrepresented). Now, here I disagree with Helgoland in that I think that when looking at the raw "number of votes per seat", he ignores other aspect of the power dynamic. Basically, no one is going to ignore the Germans, even if their vote is individually worth less than that of the Maltese. In that sense, the German electorate is more powerful than the number alone suggest. On the other hand, if seat were attributed proportionally, would EU party even bother to campaign in Malta?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on September 02, 2017, 05:35:25 am

EU = Peaceful meta-imperialism. *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

I find it funny that Scriver keeps complaining about the discrimination of Sweden when northern and centroEuropean countries consistently act in block in their own interest, regardless of size.  As a south European I very much feel like a second class citizen, and that's without even getting into the Greek mess and the attitude from people (even here!) In the north. I've often seen posts here in which people express the feeling that 'suits them right'.  Even though in no small measure this mess was cooked by the same supranational actors that are imposing austerity across Europe. Even though austerity measures are clearly not working (did you know that they needed another bailout recently? Turns out shaking them down for cash is not ideal for economic growth).   Nevermind that Greek citizens are actually dying because the cuts are crushing the Greek healthcare system. And you talk to me about sheeps and wolves?  Seriously, Sweeden doesn't have the short end of the stick by any measure.


You don't have the short end of the stick with immigration, either. Mass waves of immigrants from Africa have been arriving at Southern European countries for decades, now all of a sudden everyone are losing their minds about this, one way or the other. It seems to me that it's just that up there you didn't care as long as it was someone else's problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 02, 2017, 07:53:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 01, 2017, 08:59:52 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 01, 2017, 08:33:11 pm

I don't want Sweden to "reign supreme", I want Swedes to have the biggest say over what laws govern Swedes.

Isn't that what the veto power is for?

As MSH said, it's hard to tell whether you're anti-EU (as in Sweexit, no EU at all) or 'change the way the EU government works'.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 01, 2017, 08:37:09 pm

So are you principally anti-EU or alter-EU? I have a hard time telling, since your arguments are typically directed at the procedural faults of the existing EU government.

I don't understand the difference. There is only one EU and I don't like the direction it's taken. If you're asking him if I would be of course to any other, hypothetical EU, then of course not. But that would be hypothetical.

If you're asking me whether I think the EU should disband or just change, then I think the latter. But there is no political will to make that change happen in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 02, 2017, 11:48:48 am

So what change would you propose? Would the EU still be recognizable to the untrained eye afterwards?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 02, 2017, 12:12:02 pm

Possibly reform in how MEPs are chosen and allocated out? His primary gripe seems to be representation.

If the EU is attempting to use the US as a model for federalization, the starting point is and was completely different. The solutions you find might not look the same way as ours did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 02, 2017, 12:24:06 pm

I sure hope so :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2017, 12:30:06 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

You had fairly strong political support for a political federation ("united state of Europe") from day one. In some ways, it seems those ideas were more poular then than now, a Federal Europe was very much in the post-war Zeitgeist. I mean, even during the War there was an official proposal to merge France and the UK into a single country.

And you talk of historical revisionism. The proposed Franco-British Union was proposed under the auspices of France entering the Commonwealth, not a European Union, and needless to say the French would have put their Prime Minister under the chopping block if they knew what their PM was proposing ;]

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

In addition, the "ever closer union" has been a thing since the 1983 Solemn Declaration of the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_Declaration_on_European_Union), 10 years even before the Single Market. Pretending the political union was snuck in is historical revisionism.

Because having one narrative for the elites and one for the people is a clear display of honest intent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/valeacutery-giscard-destaing-the-eu-treaty-is-the-same-as-the-constitution-398286.html). inb4 holding repeated referendums until the people stop voting against integration is fake history because EU says so (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty)

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

Now, to make things clearer to our Americans reader, we actually have something approaching a "Upper House" in the European Council (not to be mixed with the Council of the European Union, or worse, the Council of Europe. Isn't  Europe fun? :p ).

I once tried explaining to someone the differences between the counties, boroughs, cities within cities and countries within countries within the UK, and they said such a system sounded like it was designed deliberately to confuse anyone so only dickhead politicians knew how things operated. I agreed in so far as that was probably how things were done, but it was more a result of a long continuous history, rather than intelligent design over the milennia. The EU is young though, it is obtuse by design

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

The European Council is made of the relevant minister from each of the government (so if it's an agricultural rule, it'll be the agriculture ministers and so on) and they also vote on EU law. In addition, for a lot of matter (migration, EU taxation, new country joining the  EU, EU citizenship and some others) the council vote need to be unanimous, so every country got a veto.

Nah qualified majority is all that is needed, they changed it to stop the eastern europeans and britons vetoing anything

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

In addition to that, seats in the European Parliament are also skewed so that smaller states get a higher share than their population alone would warrant, with a mimum of 6 seats each (out of 750). So Malta acount for 0.8% of seats but 0.08% of the population, while Germany account for 15.97 percent of the population but 12.8% of seats. (The cutting point is between Poland (38 millions inhabitants) and Romania (19 millions inhabitant): the bigger six countries are underrepresented, the bottom 22 are overrepresented). Now, here I disagree with Helgoland in that I think that when looking at the raw "number of votes per seat", he ignores other aspect of the power dynamic. Basically, no one is going to ignore the Germans, even if their vote is individually worth less than that of the Maltese. In that sense, the German electorate is more powerful than the number alone suggest. On the other hand, if seat were attributed proportionally, would EU party even bother to campaign in Malta?

Here I disagree with both of you because the European Parliament is entirely meaningless except for funding MEPs with recieptless expenses and dank holidays at European expense; it proposes fuck all laws and cannot propose laws, that being done by the Commissioners who are sworn to represent the EU and not the nation states they belong to. Hence why the EU's real power does not lie in Malta, but in the big 5 of France, Germany, Italy, UK & Spain who together contributed over half of the EU budget (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm) and so subsequently were far more influential than any other European nation within the EU.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

I find it funny that Scriver keeps complaining about the discrimination of Sweden when northern and centroEuropean countries consistently act in block in their own interest, regardless of size.

And they never gib eurovision votes

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

As a south European I very much feel like a second class citizen, and that's without even getting into the Greek mess and the attitude from people (even here!) In the north. I've often seen posts here in which people express the feeling that 'suits them right'.  Even though in no small measure this mess was cooked by the same supranational actors that are imposing austerity across Europe. Even though austerity measures are clearly not working (did you know that they needed another bailout recently? Turns out shaking them down for cash is not ideal for economic growth).   Nevermind that Greek citizens are actually dying because the cuts are crushing the Greek healthcare system. And you talk to me about sheeps and wolves?

I loved it when people were saying the Greeks deserved it because they were lazy, it really showed the true colours of those speaking it. European solidarity in the Union at its finest

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

Seriously, Sweeden doesn't have the short end of the stick by any measure.

Ignoring the material collapse of its state, rule of law, defence via leaks and so on, Sweden is kill. Once your people are fucked in the head and demographics that hard, you can't really unfuck that lol. And in terms of numbers sure Sweden doesn't have it worse, but in terms of relative proportion - oh boy, they dug that grave deep

Quote

Had a transparent and dynamic public discussion been taking place in Sweden during the past months — a discussion that acknowledged both the need for human solidarity and the limitations of the country’s infrastructure — a more sustainable immigration policy might have emerged. Instead, it seems ill-fated policies will not be altered until the country brings itself to the brink of collapse.

Peak leftism (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/opinion/swedens-self-inflicted-nightmare.html)
I thought the UK was bad with our leftists still covering up the whole rape gangs but imagine a whole nation of those, not just one party. The mind recoils at the reality Sweden forged

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

You don't have the short end of the stick with immigration, either. Mass waves of immigrants from Africa have been arriving at Southern European countries for decades, now all of a sudden everyone are losing their minds about this, one way or the other. It seems to me that it's just that up there you didn't care as long as it was someone else's problem.

Sweden does not have the Navy needed to actually curtail any such migration and the Swedish mindset was that Southern Europe was not dealing with a problem; but were in fact dealing with a positive force of cultural enrichment and thus migration should've been encouraged more. So it's an unfair criticism to say Sweden was uncaring, their actions were motivated by altruism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 02, 2017, 12:39:55 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2017, 12:30:06 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 02, 2017, 06:52:25 am

You don't have the short end of the stick with immigration, either. Mass waves of immigrants from Africa have been arriving at Southern European countries for decades, now all of a sudden everyone are losing their minds about this, one way or the other. It seems to me that it's just that up there you didn't care as long as it was someone else's problem.

Sweden does not have the Navy needed to actually curtail any such migration and the Swedish mindset was that Southern Europe was not dealing with a problem; but were in fact dealing with a positive force of cultural enrichment and thus migration should've been encouraged more. So it's an unfair criticism to say Sweden was uncaring, their actions were motivated by altruism

Comparing the UK and Swedish navy and saying that Sweden doesn't have the navy to prevent migration isn't a very fair comparison. After all, Sweden isn't an island.

Unless you meant Spain, but the same argument of 'not an island' still applies. A navy oesn't stop migrants from coming on on planes either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2017, 12:56:37 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 02, 2017, 12:39:55 pm

Comparing the UK and Swedish navy and saying that Sweden doesn't have the navy to prevent migration isn't a very fair comparison. After all, Sweden isn't an island.

I agree, it isn't a very fair comparison - I was just saying that it's unfair to say Sweden didn't care about southern European states dealing with mass migration when Sweden didn't have the capacity to stop it nor saw it negatively. I will say this though, Sweden may not be an island but with exception of its Scandinavian neighbours, most of all Sweden's interactions with the rest of Europe is by sea - Sweden has tons of pressure into developing its neighbour (even without Russian naval presence Sweden would have a lot to protect by sea), and while its Navy is not what it once was, it still has the potential to build a bretty nice Baltic fleet if it wants. Norway and Sweden are like honorary islands, in that they can reach Europe by land but it's a bit of a hassle

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 03, 2017, 11:49:29 am

A member of French president Macron's party has been charged with causing grieveous injury.
Last week he assaulted a socialist politician with his bike helmet. The victim was taken to hospital in a coma, had brain surgery, and is still having trouble speaking.

According to M'jid el Guerrab, who is the chosen representative for French living in the Magreb and in Africa, Boris Faure, the secretary for French living abroad for the Parti Socialiste, grabbed his wrist and called him "sale Arabe de merde" (= dirty arab of shit). He also claims that Faure had already been harassing them for a year, and even threatened him with death.

Faure's lawyer says this is not true. Faure would only have talked with him about his 'political death', and has filed libel charges next to the grieveous assault charges.

El Guerrab has put down all his public functions, and will have to appear at the office of the president's party to account for his actions there as well.
It is expected that at the very least, this will be the end of his political career.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 03, 2017, 11:54:59 am

Grievous injury.... palpable fear....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 03, 2017, 11:57:56 am

Guerrab = Guerra Arab?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 04, 2017, 01:02:54 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2017, 12:30:06 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

You had fairly strong political support for a political federation ("united state of Europe") from day one. In some ways, it seems those ideas were more poular then than now, a Federal Europe was very much in the post-war Zeitgeist. I mean, even during the War there was an official proposal to merge France and the UK into a single country.

And you talk of historical revisionism. The proposed Franco-British Union was proposed under the auspices of France entering the Commonwealth, not a European Union, and needless to say the French would have put their Prime Minister under the chopping block if they knew what their PM was proposing ;]

Agreed that the Franco-British union was a special case, as most agree it was mostly a way to shore up French morale, but it was even more integrated than the EU and not just French joining the Commowealth. Even so, it does speak volume that such a move was even considered (And it also speaks volume that several French minister opposed it, preferring to capitulate to the Nazis :p ).

Spoiler: "Declaration of Union" sent to the French as proposal (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/cpLrTrU.png)

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

In addition, the "ever closer union" has been a thing since the 1983 Solemn Declaration of the European Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemn_Declaration_on_European_Union), 10 years even before the Single Market. Pretending the political union was snuck in is historical revisionism.

Because having one narrative for the elites and one for the people is a clear display of honest intent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/valeacutery-giscard-destaing-the-eu-treaty-is-the-same-as-the-constitution-398286.html). inb4 holding repeated referendums until the people stop voting against integration is fake history because EU says so (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty)

I don't really see how the shenanigans around the Lisbon treaty have anything to do with the fact that the political goal of "ever closer union" was always clearly announced, and not something snuck in.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

Now, to make things clearer to our Americans reader, we actually have something approaching a "Upper House" in the European Council (not to be mixed with the Council of the European Union, or worse, the Council of Europe. Isn't  Europe fun? :p ).

I once tried explaining to someone the differences between the counties, boroughs, cities within cities and countries within countries within the UK, and they said such a system sounded like it was designed deliberately to confuse anyone so only dickhead politicians knew how things operated. I agreed in so far as that was probably how things were done, but it was more a result of a long continuous history, rather than intelligent design over the milennia. The EU is young though, it is obtuse by design

TBF, the council of Europe isn't the EU's fault. Also, hilariously, I did mess up the European Council and the Council of the European union in my explanation.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on September 02, 2017, 04:20:23 am

The European Council is made of the relevant minister from each of the government (so if it's an agricultural rule, it'll be the agriculture ministers and so on) and they also vote on EU law. In addition, for a lot of matter (migration, EU taxation, new country joining the  EU, EU citizenship and some others) the council vote need to be unanimous, so every country got a veto.

Nah qualified majority is all that is needed, they changed it to stop the eastern europeans and britons vetoing anything

It's QMV for a lot of things (Usually 55% of countries), but it has to be unanimous for the matter I cited. It should also noted that even though unanimity isn't required, the culture of the council means it is achieved in virtually all decisions: all realize that the entire project would collapse quickly otherwise.

Quote

]Here I disagree with both of you because the European Parliament is entirely meaningless except for funding MEPs with recieptless expenses and dank holidays at European expense; it proposes fuck all laws and cannot propose laws, that being done by the Commissioners who are sworn to represent the EU and not the nation states they belong to. Hence why the EU's real power does not lie in Malta, but in the big 5 of France, Germany, Italy, UK & Spain who together contributed over half of the EU budget (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm) and so subsequently were far more influential than any other European nation within the EU.

Well, mate, why bother talking in a discussion which was about the proposal of creating a EU-wide EP circonscription then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 04, 2017, 04:00:38 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 04, 2017, 01:02:54 pm

Agreed that the Franco-British union was a special case, as most agree it was mostly a way to shore up French morale, but it was even more integrated than the EU and not just French joining the Commowealth. Even so, it does speak volume that such a move was even considered (And it also speaks volume that several French minister opposed it, preferring to capitulate to the Nazis :p ).

One of the funnier things I read was that were it not for WWI, a proto-European Union might've been in the making owing to the USA soon to go omfgwtfbbq in economic terms. That, or WWI would've looked a lot weirder

Quote from: Sheb on September 04, 2017, 01:02:54 pm

I don't really see how the shenanigans around the Lisbon treaty have anything to do with the fact that the political goal of "ever closer union" was always clearly announced, and not something snuck in.

For the very simple reason that the in achieving the goal, the functions with which to complete it are snuck in whenever anyone opposes ;P

Quote from: Sheb on September 04, 2017, 01:02:54 pm

TBF, the council of Europe isn't the EU's fault. Also, hilariously, I did mess up the European Council and the Council of the European union in my explanation.

I was gonna comment about how it is their fault but this is all just proves how the EU needs to spend millions on a minister of appropriate naming and a sheriff of laconic effectiveness

Quote from: Sheb on September 04, 2017, 01:02:54 pm

Well, mate, why bother talking in a discussion which was about the proposal of creating a EU-wide EP circonscription then?

Just like the UK I'd like to join the discussion with none of the obligations. Besides top bants

Also seriously who attacks someone with such ironic weapons? Dick move putting someone in a coma with a helmet

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 04, 2017, 04:06:42 pm

As a citizen of Europe's dick, I would like it if we could please keep European circumcision to a minimum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 05, 2017, 01:41:55 am

Quote from: scriver on September 04, 2017, 04:06:42 pm

As a citizen of Europe's dick, I would like it if we could please keep European circumcision to a minimum.

Would that mean removing Norway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 05, 2017, 10:50:23 am

I will advise all pregnant Jewish ladies to stay far, far away from you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 07, 2017, 03:39:50 pm

Quote from: Sheb on September 05, 2017, 01:41:55 am

Quote from: scriver on September 04, 2017, 04:06:42 pm

As a citizen of Europe's dick, I would like it if we could please keep European circumcision to a minimum.

Would that mean removing Norway?

Nah, just the tip of Denmark

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 07, 2017, 07:19:45 pm

Naah, the tip of Sweden. Denmark's the cum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 08, 2017, 04:27:53 am

Quote from: Helgoland on September 07, 2017, 07:19:45 pm

Naah, the tip of Sweden. Denmark's the cum.

And what's Germany? Sasha Grey's face?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 08, 2017, 04:37:29 am

That would make Belgium her pimple. Are you sure you have thought this through?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 08, 2017, 09:07:40 pm

Politico EU did a nonscientific Trumpability index for European countries (and a neighbor or two). (http://www.politico.eu/article/the-trumpability-index/) It's kind of a mostly serious look at how much appeal Trump or a Trump-like candidate would have.

It lists Italy as one, but they've already had their Trump-alike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2017, 11:56:00 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 08, 2017, 09:07:40 pm

Politico EU did a nonscientific Trumpability index for European countries (and a neighbor or two). (http://www.politico.eu/article/the-trumpability-index/) It's kind of a mostly serious look at how much appeal Trump or a Trump-like candidate would have.

It lists Italy as one, but they've already had their Trump-alike.

UK Trump, France Trump, Russia Trump, Italy Trump, Turkey Trump, Spain Trump and the Nordic Trumps all get cool hats

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 09, 2017, 01:56:24 pm

What is it with you and millinery?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2017, 03:11:14 pm

Quote from: hector13 on September 09, 2017, 01:56:24 pm

What is it with you and millinery?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/1C79oxv.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 10, 2017, 01:09:35 am

le polan get no hat
polan want reparations

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 10, 2017, 09:02:34 am

polan cannot into hats

Also Spain pls
Don't squander your support (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/spain-blocks-catalan-independence-vote-threatens-charges-idUSKCN1BI1GQ)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 10, 2017, 09:18:36 am

Never. That war booty truly livens up the library. It is all in excellent condition, I assure you. No kingdom and realm keeps their plunder in a better state of preservation than us.

Further, that cartoon was much more amusing than it ought to be. I quite like it. I am almost prepared to print it out and frame it.

I came in here to complain, but I quite forgot. I forget so many things these days, but I shall count it as an improvement in this particular instance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 10, 2017, 09:28:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 10, 2017, 09:02:34 am

polan cannot into hats

Also Spain pls
Don't squander your support (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/spain-blocks-catalan-independence-vote-threatens-charges-idUSKCN1BI1GQ)

I saw it coming.

Mind you, I wholeheartedly support the Catalan people having a referendum. But with an ultraconservative central goverment there was no way a proper referendum was going to take place. What the Govern wanted to do in lieu of that... wasn't exactly good either.

For that matter I think that even if they got a referendum and indep lost, they deserve a new economic deal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2017, 11:10:05 am

I'm biased by family bonds, but yeah, go Catalonia! Hope it doesn't come to violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 10, 2017, 11:12:28 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 10, 2017, 09:28:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 10, 2017, 09:02:34 am

polan cannot into hats

Also Spain pls
Don't squander your support (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/spain-blocks-catalan-independence-vote-threatens-charges-idUSKCN1BI1GQ)

I saw it coming.

Mind you, I wholeheartedly support the Catalan people having a referendum. But with an ultraconservative central goverment there was no way a proper referendum was going to take place. What the Govern wanted to do in lieu of that... wasn't exactly good either.

For that matter I think that even if they got a referendum and indep lost, they deserve a new economic deal

I think we all saw it coming. The Catalan autonomous government and the Spanish government have been in a tense faceoff that's been building up for years now. I hope it doesn't end in violence... doesn't seem likely that it will since nobody really wants a repeat of the Spanish Civil War.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 10, 2017, 11:29:10 am

I don't think it will come to that. But the referendum has pretty much fallen to pieces. When things began to get half-arsed many former supporters dropped.


TBH the way the Catalan society is polarized at the moment the best thing to do for everyone would be to take a step back and try to bring the tension down. Heavy handed moves on either side could make this turn ugly very fast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 10, 2017, 12:39:04 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 10, 2017, 11:29:10 am

I don't think it will come to that. But the referendum has pretty much fallen to pieces. When things began to get half-arsed many former supporters dropped.
TBH the way the Catalan society is polarized at the moment the best thing to do for everyone would be to take a step back and try to bring the tension down. Heavy handed moves on either side could make this turn ugly very fast.

Deeply concerned that there could be a Spanish civil discontent, repressing people who majority support you has a tendency of turning them away :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 10, 2017, 01:06:11 pm

It's not quite that simple, I'm afraid :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on September 10, 2017, 09:22:19 pm

It never is

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2017, 05:30:20 am

Yeah, Labour party is already calling it a breach of separation of powers, and a power grab by the government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2017, 10:28:30 am

EDIT: hmm why did I put this in the EU thread. Ahwell I'll just leave it here

Reuters reporters sneakily monitored Russian regional elections, and found that at 6 out of the 6 voting locations they monitored, there was significant voting fraud, by adding fake votes.
They tested 6 voting locations for fraud, by simply counting the number of voters going in, and comparing that with the end of the day vote count.
At all 6 locations, the official count showed more voters to have cast their vote than actually did.
At a voting booth in Vladikavkaz, the Reuters reporter counted a total of 256 voters going into the voting office. Yet at the end of the day, at the vote count, 1867 people had cast their vote there, according to the voting crew.
One representative of Putin's party United Russia explained why he was seen stuffing extra votes into the voting box: "We have to ensure that United Russia gets 85% of the votes, or the Tzar (Putin) will stop sending us money".
After Sergej Ljoetikov, member of United Russia, cast his vote, he proceeded to add some more packs of voting tickets into the box, up to ten times.
When he noticed that he was being watched by a reporter, he threatened to take her phone, unless she would wipe it's memory.
According to the reporter, the supervisor of the voting location was able to see quite clearly what Ljoetikov did, but when asked what she thought of his behaviour, she just replied she hadn't seen anything.

At the end of the day, all the 16 regions for which a new governor had to be elected, had Putin's preferred candidate elected with a majority vote.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/reuters-verslaggevers-doen-steekproef-tijdens-russische-verkiezingen-in-alle-stemlokalen-kiesfraude~a4516189/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/reuters-verslaggevers-doen-steekproef-tijdens-russische-verkiezingen-in-alle-stemlokalen-kiesfraude~a4516189/)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-election-fraud-exclusive/exclusive-at-a-russian-polling-station-phantom-voters-cast-ballots-for-the-tsar-idUSKCN1BN15P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2017, 11:27:26 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 12, 2017, 10:28:30 am

EDIT: hmm why did I put this in the EU thread. Ahwell I'll just leave it here

Just rename it back to the Europe thread, it's what it is the continuation of anyway, and we don't have any reason to confine the Ukraine-Russia conflict discussion to it's own thread any more since there's much less chance of getting heated here these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 12, 2017, 03:45:01 pm

Quote from: greatorder on September 12, 2017, 10:37:54 am

Meanwhile, water is wet. More news at 11.

That Russia's suffering major voting fraud's not new in any way. There's just no way to stop it, bar invading the place to force actual votes to happen. I still recall when a place had 110% turnout, or around that number.

That's not that weird actually. Here in the Netherlands our Islands frequently have over 200% turnout because a lot of tourists vote there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 12, 2017, 06:32:19 pm

There's not too many tourists in Siberia, I think.

Also do you not have assigned voting locations? That's how it works here - you either vote at home, or via mail.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 13, 2017, 01:14:46 am

Quote from: Helgoland on September 12, 2017, 06:32:19 pm

There's not too many tourists in Siberia, I think.

Also do you not have assigned voting locations? That's how it works here - you either vote at home, or via mail.

It's quite possible that there are more non-Siberians in Siberia than there are Siberians. Percentages over 100% make sense if those on 'state holiday' in Siberia are allowed to vote from their re-education camps. Dunno if they are allowed that though, ask Pussy Riot, they should know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 13, 2017, 01:34:17 am

Normally people convicted of felonies are not allowed to vote,  no...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2017, 01:37:30 pm

Quote from: greatorder on September 12, 2017, 05:25:07 am

So, the EU repeal bill has been passed in the UK. I recall reading a few days ago that it also included some nice little thing that effectively gave more power to one part of the government (I can't recall which, honestly).
People are celebrating the fact Brexit is going on while ignoring that part. Whether it's out of ignorance or that they just don't want to pay attention to it is a mystery to me.

I made a dry legalese rumination on this disagreeing that it's a big arse power grab (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164378.msg7562700#msg7562700)

Quote from: greatorder on September 12, 2017, 10:37:54 am

Meanwhile, water is wet. More news at 11.

That Russia's suffering major voting fraud's not new in any way. There's just no way to stop it, bar invading the place to force actual votes to happen. I still recall when a place had 110% turnout, or around that number.

inb4 americans hacked russia's elections

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 03:50:05 am

70 years after Mussolini was lynched, and strung up upside down over a square in Naples, a new law has been passed in Italy's parliament that forbids any and all forms of nazi propaganda.
Football club S.S. Lazio will no longer be allowed to make Hitler salutes (called Roman salute in Italy) during matches, lighters and other paraphernalia with Mussolini's face will no longer be legal, and any statues and monuments will have to have their text plaques altered if they only read 'DUX' or 'DUCE', to include condemnation.
Breaking the new law will get you up to 4 years in prison.

There was already a law in place that forbade any action directly promoting the re-rise of Mussolini's party, but in practice this was a void law that did not apply to Mussolini lighters, Hitler T-shirts, or Roman salutes.

The Italian government says this new law is not meant to restrict personal freedoms, but that it is deemed absolutely nescessary to put a brake on the return of neo-fascist sentiments, and the return of extreme-right ideology.

The law does not come in time to prevent the planned 'March of the Patriots', organised by the reactionary neofascist party 'Forza Nuova' from making Hitler salutes.
It still needs to pass senate and that will not happen in time for that. The March is planned on 28th of oktober, when it is exactly 95 years ago that Mussolini and his blackshirts marched to Rome and overthrew the government.
According to Forza Nuova, the March is "nescessary protest against the violence and the raping by migrants that are plundering our country".
https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/waarom-italie-fascistische-aanstekers-en-koelkastmagneten-nu-pas-echt-verbiedt~a4516486/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Paxiecrunchle on September 14, 2017, 03:56:13 am

So in other words, world war 2 taught people nothing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 14, 2017, 04:16:34 am

Quote from: Paxiecrunchle on September 14, 2017, 03:56:13 am

So in other words, world war 2 taught people nothing?

Denying what actually happened is very popular among those people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2017, 05:05:45 am

In Sweden a "Roman salute/hail" is something completely different than a Nazi hail (a heil hail) which involves having the arm in a 90 degree bend. I mean I guess technically you could call it a lazy heil hail and now that I think about it you see Nazis doing that kind of hail in ww2 movies but I hadn't associated it with fascism or Nazism at all.

What's the deal with DUX and DUCE though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on September 14, 2017, 05:10:43 am

Dux and Duce come from latin indicating somebody who leads, and basically the only person after the roman empire who used those was Mussolini himself. As a result, the Duce is Mussolini and the use of the word is in general a reference to fascism.

I am not sure how I feel about this... on one hand I don't like fascists much, but this is a very extreme piece of legislation that I am not sure I can agree with. It doesn't help that it is also going to hit a lot of unrelated stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2017, 06:21:56 am

Oh, I misrember-mistook duce and doge because of duke. Probably related words all three I guess but a mistake nonetheless. I guess it's the Italian version of fuhrer, then? If my guesswork translation is right then führer means leader as well.

Hey Germans and dutches, is fuhrer still used for leader in your languages? In Swedish we mostly use our cognate to leader - "ledare" - rather than our cognate to fuhrer - "förare" - to describe somebody who leads people. "Förare" is still used in some cases though, the main one I can think of off-hand is car/truck driver.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 08:09:54 am

In Dutch führer was never used. The only words with the same linguistic root would be 'voorman/voerman (english: foreman)'. These are old words though, and rarely anyone uses those anymore in Dutch. There also is 'aanvoerder', the use of which is mostly restricted to sports.
Our normal word for leader is 'leider'.


EDIT: in other news, a(n) (in)famous piece of art has been stolen from Apeldoorn. The 'Tree Jewel', better known to the local population as the 'Tit-dick-ass' has been stolen from the Sprengenpark.
In 2008, the artwork was made by Dutch artist Maria Roosen, for the city of Apeldoorn.
The thieves got away with 60 kilos of stainless steel penisses, tits, and arses welded together.
It is suspected that the work was stolen for it's metal value. The thieves can sell the metal for a few hundred euros. This is nothing compared to the price paid by the city when they ordered the piece, for 45000 euros.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/beeldende-kunst/-kilo-s-roestvrijstalen-borstlulkont-geroofd-uit-park-apeldoorn-is-berucht-kunstwerk-armer~a4516519/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 14, 2017, 11:30:39 am

Führer is still used in German as a generic noun (iirc it gets used in the case of someone driving) but it would make people very very uncomfortable if you referred to an important political leader as a/the Führer. Of course, I haven't lived in Germany for a while and my language skill are a bit rusty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: inteuniso on September 14, 2017, 11:48:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 08:09:54 am

The thieves got away with 60 kilos of stainless steel penisses, tits, and arses welded together.
It is suspected that the work was stolen for it's metal value. The thieves can sell the metal for a few hundred euros. This is nothing compared to the price paid by the city when they ordered the piece, for 45000 euros.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/beeldende-kunst/-kilo-s-roestvrijstalen-borstlulkont-geroofd-uit-park-apeldoorn-is-berucht-kunstwerk-armer~a4516519/

I get that art is valuable and some such but seriously what is the point in paying that much? Couldn't that have gone towards getting more flowers/herbs/plants in the city? They're pretty, can have medicinal values and they produce oxygen. Also they can be arranged in an artistic/autistic manner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 04:47:00 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on September 14, 2017, 11:48:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 08:09:54 am

The thieves got away with 60 kilos of stainless steel penisses, tits, and arses welded together.
It is suspected that the work was stolen for it's metal value. The thieves can sell the metal for a few hundred euros. This is nothing compared to the price paid by the city when they ordered the piece, for 45000 euros.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/beeldende-kunst/-kilo-s-roestvrijstalen-borstlulkont-geroofd-uit-park-apeldoorn-is-berucht-kunstwerk-armer~a4516519/

I get that art is valuable and some such but seriously what is the point in paying that much? Couldn't that have gone towards getting more flowers/herbs/plants in the city? They're pretty, can have medicinal values and they produce oxygen. Also they can be arranged in an artistic/autistic manner.

autistic manner? wut?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 06:05:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 04:47:00 pm

Quote from: inteuniso on September 14, 2017, 11:48:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 08:09:54 am

The thieves got away with 60 kilos of stainless steel penisses, tits, and arses welded together.
It is suspected that the work was stolen for it's metal value. The thieves can sell the metal for a few hundred euros. This is nothing compared to the price paid by the city when they ordered the piece, for 45000 euros.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/beeldende-kunst/-kilo-s-roestvrijstalen-borstlulkont-geroofd-uit-park-apeldoorn-is-berucht-kunstwerk-armer~a4516519/

I get that art is valuable and some such but seriously what is the point in paying that much? Couldn't that have gone towards getting more flowers/herbs/plants in the city? They're pretty, can have medicinal values and they produce oxygen. Also they can be arranged in an artistic/autistic manner.

autistic manner? wut?

Autistic management takes it to a level of meticulousness that your average bob would consider 10 times too excessive. See: Dorf Fortress players

Also in seriousness they didn't pay 45 bags of big monies just to have metal dicks, they compensated the artist for their labours and that artist was worth 45 bags of metal monies for metal dicks. Frankly this all stems from some bullshit because any good hobo could've given the state hundreds of bag of sculpted metal dicks for the fraction of the cost, fuck it, there are people who would do it for free. Fuck it, if my local government said "JOHN DOE YOU NEED TO MAKE THE METAL DICKS" my first response would be "HOW MANY METAL DICKS DO YOU NEED GOVERNMENT". Some people just don't understand patriotism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 06:14:30 pm

OCD management seems like a better one. Dunno.......

Though yeah, bunch of metal dicks, asses, and maybe vaginas in what looks like a metal net is art, wtf.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 06:19:19 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 06:14:30 pm

OCD management seems like a better one. Dunno.......

Though yeah, bunch of metal dicks, asses, and maybe vaginas in what looks like a metal net is art, wtf.....

Art shows what a civilization treasures the most

west is benis :DDDDDD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 06:25:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 06:14:30 pm

OCD management seems like a better one. Dunno.......

Though yeah, bunch of metal dicks, asses, and maybe vaginas in what looks like a metal net is art, wtf.....

I don't see why not. There's plenty of paintings of vaginas by famous painters that sell for millions, why would a sculptor not be allowed to use dicks and tits?

NSFW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_and_vulva_in_art

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 06:27:01 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 06:25:01 pm

I don't see why not. There's plenty of paintings of vaginas by famous painters that sell for millions, why would a sculptor not be allowed to use dicks and tits?

NSFW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_and_vulva_in_art

"I don't see why we shouldn't set ourselves on fire, we're already sitting knee deep in acid"

lol I went to an art museum that had three pieces of blank canvas on the wall

I could not contain

THE ART

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on September 14, 2017, 06:28:01 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 14, 2017, 06:25:01 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 14, 2017, 06:14:30 pm

OCD management seems like a better one. Dunno.......

Though yeah, bunch of metal dicks, asses, and maybe vaginas in what looks like a metal net is art, wtf.....

I don't see why not. There's plenty of paintings of vaginas by famous painters that sell for millions, why would a sculptor not be allowed to use dicks and tits?

Excuse me while I make a montage piece of the various doodles of penises and vaginas from bathroom stalls I photographed.

I expect it will be valued at roughly 500 memes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 14, 2017, 06:35:48 pm

As art is pretty much exclusively about sex, one could say that the tit-dick-ass sculpture is a pinnacle of art for being honest instead of hiding behind confetti and metaphors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on September 14, 2017, 06:40:11 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 14, 2017, 06:35:48 pm

As art is pretty much exclusively about sex, one could say that the tit-dick-ass sculpture is a pinnacle of art for being honest instead of hiding behind confetti and metaphors.

As LW put it, Art is a reflection of the values of the people and society that made it.

Ours is all about dat sex. Freud did nothing wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 14, 2017, 06:44:32 pm

No no, I mean all art from all societies is about sex. I'm not even entirely kidding here. Art started as cavepainting porn and kind of got out of control from there on out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2017, 07:04:22 pm

I bet before there were cave paintings people were making impressions into the sand of their dicks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 08:37:02 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 14, 2017, 06:44:32 pm

No no, I mean all art from all societies is about sex. I'm not even entirely kidding here. Art started as cavepainting porn and kind of got out of control from there on out.

And so it is that the sum total of human expression is in a word, fucked or be fucked

I give a facebook like or a facebook like
ebin

western minds is kill

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/GcdFd38.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fmm9IHb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/F3W2k5g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7hy4qIm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E7pEjuL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8i7aS5D.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QZ273o9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3EcHCKq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/57sg3wR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e0ZWD4i.jpg)

Art expresses our imaginations and the limits thereof. It is a world where people think they are always happy, always get what they want, where their art reflects the narrow mindedness of a people whose sole pursuits are gratification of desire. Concepts of values, family, faith, philosophy, truth, empathy and honour become jokes, then problematic issues, then dead, as one by one the whole range of human existence is narrowed into the most material and base - a world where anything is permissible for as long as it does not interfere with orgasms and economic prosperity. Shit's all fucked because near all the cultural nexuses of mankind are controlled by so few powerful groups of people all interested in distilling culture into the most marketable, agreeable and narrow band of politically sexy pop culture that whether or not they care that they've created a Brave New World doesn't matter at all, it leaves with the same end result. This is kali yuga. Apollo is kill, Dionysus is win

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/mnM3eM5.jpg)

The one consolation is that welcoming to erasure allows for dank memes. Gives me 2012 doom paul pasta vibes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 14, 2017, 08:41:11 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 08:37:02 pm

Gives me 2012 CONNIPTIONS

fify

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 08:42:14 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on September 14, 2017, 08:41:11 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2017, 08:37:02 pm

Gives me 2012 CONNIPTIONS (http://conniptions.gives/)

fify

ftfy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on September 14, 2017, 09:26:45 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 14, 2017, 07:04:22 pm

I bet before there were cave paintings people were making impressions into the sand of their dicks.

Craved into the stone in ages long past:

Spoiler: technically dirty I guess (click to show/hide)

(http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/Images/paleolithicvulva.jpg)
You though it was going to be a dick didn't you? how sexist!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2017, 09:36:48 pm

That's clearly an insect mandible alien.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 14, 2017, 09:42:22 pm

Fool, it's clearly a muncher.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 15, 2017, 01:36:59 am

You guys need to extract your minds from the gutter. That's a perfectly innocuous carving of a leaf.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 15, 2017, 03:43:13 am

Fuck, explosion in London metro. No reports of dead, but there's wounded people with fire burns, and wounded peopl that got trampled in the panic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 15, 2017, 05:48:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 15, 2017, 03:43:13 am

Fuck, explosion in London metro. No reports of dead, but there's wounded people with fire burns, and wounded peopl that got trampled in the panic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

Looks like a failed bomb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2017, 05:42:57 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-41280080
Icelandic government collapses after pedo scandal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2017, 07:40:51 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2017, 05:42:57 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-41280080
Icelandic government collapses after pedo scandal

That's the second time it's happened in the past year and a half or so. The first time was after the Panama papers stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 17, 2017, 08:14:57 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 16, 2017, 07:40:51 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2017, 05:42:57 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-41280080
Icelandic government collapses after pedo scandal

That's the second time it's happened in the past year and a half or so. The first time was after the Panama papers stuff.

Seems like the daggers are all out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 17, 2017, 08:52:29 am

Today, there was an unregistered Nazi rally and march through the Swedish city of Gothenburg. It is, of course, the Nordic Resistance Movement, of whom I believe we have talked of before. Quite possibly a sort of dress rehersal for the greater rally on September 30th (which, by co-incidence, happens to be Jom Kippur, and the city synagogue is some two streets away from the planned route. Oh, well. Do not attribute to malice amongst the police that can easily explained by simple ignorance).

I am happy that I missed them, for it would have been such an awful way to begin the day, wouldn't you agree?

It was completed in an orderly fashion; not wanting to further disturb the peace and starting a street-fight, the police escorted them for the duration, and remained on-site if the Nazis overstepped any further. Minor scuffles only. I suppose one could not have asked for it to go any better, given the circumstances. I do hope that there will be some sort of future reprimand, however, when public order is not directly on the line.
Since it was a calm affair (and occured out here in the provinces), it has failed to make much of a splash at all, which is why I thought it would be noteworthy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 17, 2017, 10:10:11 am

Speaking of the NRM, their English wikipedia article claims they hold a municipal seat somewhere in Sweden, but doesn't list a source. Can any Swedes weigh in on this? I know this is super specific but it bothers me that I can't find where this information came from, and whatever municipal government is held by Literally Hitler is a real political oddity for sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 17, 2017, 10:55:39 am

Bravely risking to have my browser history associated with those pieces of shit for all eternity I did a quick search: This articlea bout racism activity in the Valleys (http://expo.se/2017/dalarna---den-svenska-nazismens-starkaste-faste_7346.html) from Expo, a Swedish anti-racism magazine (you'll probably know it better as Millenium from the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo books), which says they have one commune seat in Ludvika and one replacement seat in Borlänge (so technically not an actual seat there I guess? I wasn't aware replacement seats could shift party). They mention that the seat in Ludvika was "couped" but don't go into detail, so i looked a little more and found this article from 2014 (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article19581623.ab) explains that they got into the commune because the Swedish Democrats got 7 seats but only had 5 names on their namelist, the NMR got one of the two remaining chairs by writing an NMR name on SD party and blank-party votes.

So they basically had to cheat the system to get in. The Valleys are the main support hold of thr NMR in Sweden though, according to that Expo article, with the movement apparently going as far as encouraging their members to move there so they gain more influence.

Which is ironic in itself because the Valleys have one of the most individual stand-out of the Swedish cultures (Not counting the Gutes as they are east-Germanic instead of north-germanic).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 17, 2017, 11:00:46 am

And so the mystery is solved. Is it me, or are neo-nazis disturbingly good at system disruption? I can't imagine any other political faction getting away with cheating into a seat like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 17, 2017, 11:27:06 am

Well they don't hold any popular support, so they have to do that to gain any power.

I can't say if any other organisations have tried that trick though, but I've certainly never heard of it. Then again I had completely forgotten about the above too (but I will insist that I do have a faint memory of hearing about it back then that I can recall now that I've read up on it, but that may just be afterconstrcuction memory shenanigans for all I know). All I can think of is the old joke that one should organise a Kalle Anka/Donald Duck party (That's a common thing to write on protest votes here) and steal the votes of everyone who doesn't even know the party exists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 20, 2017, 06:57:05 am

The Spanish police arrested 12 high officials from the Catalonian regional government, for preparing an illegal referendum.
Police raided and searched the Catalonian 'ministries' of Economy, Foreign Affairs, Social Affairs & Unemployment, and Internal Affairs.

The Catalonian officials claim they have not done anything illegal, since criminal law says nothing at all about referenda.

Immediatly after the arrest, dozens of protestors appeared at the ministries, and at the Ramblas, protesting the arrests, and covering police cars in election posters.
A lot of civil servants working in the raided ministries joined in the protest not much later.

Spain, please do not devolve into civil war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 07:23:07 am

17 according to local news. 

This situation is spinning out of control fast.

(Why oh why must this happen precisedly during my holidays)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2017, 08:12:29 am

I am deeply concerned

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2017, 08:58:56 am

It's been slowly escalating, with the 'slowly' picking up speed over time.

Spain seems to be trying everything possible outside of outright murder to stop the referendum, and it's only making everything worse because it'll make the Catalonians angrier and more likely to do a hard split, then Spain does more crackdown, rinse and repeat. I see no offramp from this spiral atm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 09:30:27 am

It´s more complex than that but it´s a good sum-up


My personal analysis
See, all this started around 2008. The Catalonian goverment (then under the Socialist Party) was promised a reform of it´s autonomy status to improve self-goverment... and the overall situation of Catalonian autonomy, really. As it stands they have actually a worse deal than most autonomous communities. It kept getting delayed, and things came to a close around 5-6 years ago, when the Catalonian goverment (under control of the major nationalist party once again) demanded from the (then conservative) central goverment to make good their promises.
 Only... as I said, the central goverment was (and is) in hands of the very conservative and very centralist "Popular Party". Who happened to have an absolute majority in parliament at the time. So they basically ignored them. Then tensions started to build up, each side tensed the rope more and more, and eventually we have come to this situation.

Some things to note (IMO):
- Catalonian society is very evenly split about the matter of independence. Votes-wise, non nationalistic parties had a slight edge in the last election, even. (That was before all this mess, of course. Who knows what the current split is)

- The central goverment's tactics actually FOSTER nationalistic sentiment, goes without saying. When they insist on screwing you up you start to look into nationalistic positions in a far more sympathetic light. I know it happens to me, for certain.

- It´s delliberate. See, this kind of heavy handed approaches sit very well with "Deep Spain", which overlaps very well with the main voting segment of the conservative party.

- However, it´s very likely to backfire this time. The situation is too damn tense at the moment. This wont be good for anyone.


What I think should happen to avoid bad outcomes:
- Everyone should take a step back
- The Central goverment should fulfill the promises made to the Catalonian goverment, with interest
- A  referendum (well planned, with guarantees) should be done further down the line, once things are calm again.  Personally I think that deep sociopolitical changes should have a threshold higher than 51%, too.

Not that anyone is going to listen to me, anyways. Good thing I´m living abroad, as this does not bode well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2017, 09:43:53 am

I get and know that it'd be more complex, just that as an outside observer and even more removed from European politics than Martinuzz, it looks like a downward spiral with no obvious (to me) offramp other than delaying the referendum.

That said, hopefully cooler heads prevail here, which would be the 'everybody takes a step back' part.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 09:49:06 am

It wont happen.

See, this thing about the arrests... it was totally unexpected to me TBH. I fully expected the police to crack down on the referendum. But what I was actually expecting was more on the lines of seizing all the material for it,   public noises of outrage by both the PP and the nationalist parties of Catalonia.... and then  in a couple of months likely an autonomy reform for Catalonia, without much fuss (AKA a compromise under the table).

With arrests and open police repression.... it looks disturbingly close to the situation we had in the Basque Country up until 10 years ago.   I don´t know where this is heading at the moment, and I don´t like the look of things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 20, 2017, 10:02:48 am

Even most anti-nationalist Catalans support holding a reference, right? If so, wow, the central government really is making some unwise calls here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2017, 10:09:41 am

I don't know what the polling is on holding a referendum over there, but I concur with the Spanish government making some very unwise calls here. I can only hope that it doesn't devolve into a civil conflict.

ChairmanPoo, the memory of the Spanish Civil War is still relatively fresh in Spain, right? No idea how high the desire is to not get into another Civil War within a hundred years of the previous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 10:28:59 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 20, 2017, 10:02:48 am

Even most anti-nationalist Catalans support holding a reference, right? If so, wow, the central government really is making some unwise calls here.

That´s a very good question. I don´t know if they do. Odds are many of them don´t. Moods tend to get very heated about this sort of thing.

Quote from: smjjames on September 20, 2017, 10:09:41 am

I don't know what the polling is on holding a referendum over there, but I concur with the Spanish government making some very unwise calls here. I can only hope that it doesn't devolve into a civil conflict.

ChairmanPoo, the memory of the Spanish Civil War is still relatively fresh in Spain, right? No idea how high the desire is to not get into another Civil War within a hundred years of the previous.

I´m not really worried about civil war. For a civil war to take place you need two armies... and I think the Govern has neither the resources or enough prospective recruits to fight a war. For that matter, I don´t think that the central goverment will ramp up the pressure that much, either.

What worries me is the far less unlikely prospect that radical elements among the nationalists might decide to respond to political repression with  extreme tactics. That particular problem is far fresher in memory than the SCW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2017, 11:03:33 am

I was going to say, though I wouldn't know exactly how fresh in mind the Civil War is, the oppression under Franco that followed it undoubtedly is just as fresh or more so. And the non-Castilian nations were definitely harder targeted as far as national identity go, or at least that is certainly how they seem to feel. I'm not super secure in my knowledge of Franco, mostly just know stuff about the political persecution under him, but I think that's they way it was at least.

I should probably put the usual disclaimer here that a lot of what i might say on the matter might have been influenced by Catalonian relatives of certain nationalist fervour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 11:15:08 am

It´s all very fresh in memory. Lots of people alive have relatives buried in ditches. And no hope of recovering the bodies due to the goverment´s coverup.

Quote

And the non-Castilian nations were definitely harder targeted as far as national identity go, or at least that is certainly how they seem to fee

Very much so. You should hear what my older patients during my stint in the Goierri region had to say about what they lived through during the Francoist era.

Quote

I should probably put the usual disclaimer here that a lot of what i might say on the matter might have been influenced by Catalonian relatives of certain nationalist fervour.

I kind of sympathize with many of the nationalist's positions.  I try to keep a cool head, though, as the situation is very delicate.

I also think it´s important to consider that in both the Basque Country and Catalonia the population is very evenly split in nationalists and non-nationalists (this is obviously a gross simplification, as there is a wide spectrum in both). That´s also something to consider. I think by itself it would justify avoiding heavy-handed measures, one way or the other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2017, 02:03:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 11:15:08 am

It´s all very fresh in memory. Lots of people alive have relatives buried in ditches. And no hope of recovering the bodies due to the goverment´s coverup.

Quote

And the non-Castilian nations were definitely harder targeted as far as national identity go, or at least that is certainly how they seem to fee

Very much so. You should hear what my older patients during my stint in the Goierri region had to say about what they lived through during the Francoist era.

I'm sorry if I offended you with my clumsy phrasing. I didn't mean to sound dismissive of it, I just wanted to highlight the second-handedness of what I know about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2017, 02:35:23 pm

... I wasn´t offended (really, I have a rather thick skin over identity issues. I´m more sensitive towards stereotypes abroad because I´m  working abroad and it worries that a negative one might cause me trouble down the line.  Speaking about that, btw, I´m not looking forward to questions about what´s going on when I get back to my workplace in 2 weeks...)

I was confirming what you were saying.  I was moved by the tales of elderly Basque peasants telling me that when they were children they were beaten in school if they were heard speaking Basque.  One of them told me that he felt I was "smarter" because of my good Spanish (and lousy, survival-level Basque). See, there is this stereotype from back then: if you speak Basque you´re an illiterate peasant, and viceversa. Made me wonder about the concept of cultural genocide, and to what extent what happened back then (before I was born) actually influenced me. I seriously had seldom considered the issue beforehand.


In other regards: The Spanish President Mariano Rajoy is giving a speech right now  (lambasting the Catalonians). Every word makes me more sympathethic to the Catalonian Govern. Despite the fact that, rationally speaking, I kind think the situation is a powder keg and it´d be better to hold the referendum for the time being, at least. I hear Mr Rajoy speak and start wishing that the whole thing goes forward and hits him in the face.  Now I understand how the % of Catalonians openly identifying as nationalists has gone up from 10 to 45% in 4 years. The man has a gift.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 21, 2017, 04:09:56 am

I don't really have any support to give to the Catalans.

Their situation is nowhere near that of peoples in pre-1918 Russia. When the Bolsheviks took power in the October revolution, they declared that all peoples of Russia had the right to secede completely. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_the_Peoples_of_Russia) In other words, Finland, the Baltics and other peoples in Russia declared a bilateral independence. When some of them later got forcefully reincorporated into the USSR, the countries officially were seen as occupied.

This is not the case with Catalonia, which has been apart of Spain ever since the Aragonese crown married into the Castilian crown centuries ago.

There is none of the oppression, ethnic cleansing, or genocide that was present in Kosovo or Yugoslavia, and Franco and his nationally oppressive rule has been dead for over 40 years.

Scotland was legally given the ability to bilaterally secede when the British Parliament granted them the referendum, something that was much easier due to the lack of a constitution.

The way I see it, Catalonia either plays the long game and legally amends the constitution of Spain, or goes to war like the US and Ireland.  :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2017, 04:27:14 am

They very much have been shafted with the autonomy agreements, which the goverment has repeatedly failed to honor. At the very least they deserve that. 
Also, the former Domestic Affairs mimister was recorded admitting to have sabotaged Catalonian institutions, including healthcare.

Plus they get othered constantly in the national news. Which is kind of an old tactic too, they did the same thing with the Basque Country... and still do, to an extent.


I don't think full blown independence would be a good move in today's economic climate, but it should be within their right to get it as well. I do think such a radical change in the status quo should require a threshold higher than 51, but I think the usual centralist claim of "everyone -as im everyone in Spain- should have a say" is bollocks, aimed at making the referendum impossible.





BTW: and for clarification: my position has always been that Spain should be reorganized into a federal republic. I'm no secesionist per se but I don't think secesionism should be out of the question either, if presented on a sane manner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2017, 06:37:44 am

It does seem silly to say that because they're situation isn't as bad as someone else's was a century ago, they don't deserve the right to say how they want to be governed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2017, 07:45:12 am

First aftershocks of yesterday's events: the goverment lacks a majority of seats to approve funding for the coming year.  They were hoping to gai  support from other parties, but after yesterday's events the Basque Nationalist Partyhas announced that they wont, so that has fallen through.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 21, 2017, 08:01:44 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 21, 2017, 06:37:44 am

It does seem silly to say that because they're situation isn't as bad as someone else's was a century ago, they don't deserve the right to say how they want to be governed.

Silly, or just common sense? I believe it's very important that one has to justify unilateral secession and reasonable justifications usually come from international precedents. And AFAIK there is no precedent for Catalonia's case. Not even Kosovo, the train of which has passed sometime in the 40 years since Franco's death.

Being able to declare unilateral secession for arbitrary reasons is an incredibly dangerous and unstable international system, as I doubt the world would be a good place for anyone if everyone and their dog can declare their apartment a sovereign, independent country by exercising the right to "self-determination of peoples", where "peoples" is arbitrary and doesn't even have a legal definition.

Thus Catalonia should either play the long game, get some friendly PR going in Spain and change the constitution with the general elections...

Or simply go to war and hope they win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2017, 08:28:38 am

Quote from: da_nang on September 21, 2017, 08:01:44 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 21, 2017, 06:37:44 am

It does seem silly to say that because they're situation isn't as bad as someone else's was a century ago, they don't deserve the right to say how they want to be governed.

Silly, or just common sense? I believe it's very important that one has to justify unilateral secession and reasonable justifications usually come from international precedents. And AFAIK there is no precedent for Catalonia's case. Not even Kosovo, the train of which has passed sometime in the 40 years since Franco's death.

To be fair, every countries independence case is unique in their own way and factors. There are common factors among various instances, yes, but no two are precisely the same.

Quote from: da_nang on September 21, 2017, 08:01:44 am

Being able to declare unilateral secession for arbitrary reasons is an incredibly dangerous and unstable international system, as I doubt the world would be a good place for anyone if everyone and their dog can declare their apartment a sovereign, independent country by exercising the right to "self-determination of peoples", where "peoples" is arbitrary and doesn't even have a legal definition.

Thus Catalonia should either play the long game, get some friendly PR going in Spain and change the constitution with the general elections...

Or simply go to war and hope they win.

Declaring unilateral seccession via referendum because they are complaining about specific issues is about as arbitrary as revolting over tea taxes (guess who) or seceeding over slavery. If California went through with the seccession thing (we aren't going through with it anymore), over Trump, THAT would be arbitrary.

BTW, the Iraqi Kurds are doing something similar, but Iraq isn't throwing an absolute fit over it. Complaining, yes, and they are preoccupied by the ISIS fight, but they aren't acting the same way as Spain does. Iraq even seems reluctantly supportive if the Kurdish referendum does go through with a yes vote.

Also, you're pulling a massive slippery slope fallacy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 21, 2017, 08:32:43 am

If one could only ever justify something by precedent then no new precedent would ever be established.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 21, 2017, 05:21:00 pm

Quote from: da_nang on September 21, 2017, 04:09:56 am

Scotland was legally given the ability to bilaterally secede when the British Parliament granted them the referendum, something that was much easier due to the lack of a constitution.

UK has a constitution, no one wrote it down

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2017, 08:28:38 am

BTW, the Iraqi Kurds are doing something similar, but Iraq isn't throwing an absolute fit over it. Complaining, yes, and they are preoccupied by the ISIS fight, but they aren't acting the same way as Spain does. Iraq even seems reluctantly supportive if the Kurdish referendum does go through with a yes vote.
Also, you're pulling a massive slippery slope fallacy.

Iraq is throwing a massive fit over it, declaring it illegal (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/iraq-top-court-rules-suspend-kurdish-referendum-170918102729593.html) and inviting their neighbours to come to their aid (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/regional-implications-kurdish-independence-vote-170918123748896.html) including Turkey. They'd act sooner if most of their sons weren't dead tbh, so I don't understand where this "supportive" idea comes from, Iraq is preparing for a consequential phase of civil war, they are not cool with this. Even the US & the UN are warning that now is not the time. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/world/middleeast/iraqi-kurds-independence-vote.html)

As for slippery slope, nations grow, then they collapse. Such is as it has been for time immemorial, but that doesn't mean people still don't fear the balkanization ;P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 21, 2017, 05:23:33 pm

While lawyers and leaders may not talk about it, it's important that they recognize that the law is always going to include a function of practicality. When the people refuse the law en mass, you have to recognize that and more or less adapt to it. Trying to refuse a person on the grounds that "the law is the law" is one thing, trying to refuse everybody on the grounds that "the law is the law" is how you get parliament burning and statue toppling.

Right now? The Spanish government is in the latter category.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2017, 05:36:33 pm

Well, it´s heading towards that, but not quite there yet, thankfully. There are still sane heads even among the conservatives. Today a resolution by the socialist party to form a board to discuss a reorganization of the territorial model passed with the votes of everyone (including both the PP and PDeCat, notably) but the nutcases at Ciudadanos, who are, well, nutcases, and the Catalonian nationalist party ERC, who are very, very angry.

We´ll see what comes out of it. It´s not the first time the Socialist Party promises to reorganize the autonomy system towards something more federal and then backs out (See my post above. In no small measure the Catalonian situation is happening because the SP promised just that in 2008). However, with the big scare that the Catalonians have given the parliament, it might actually come to pass this time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on September 21, 2017, 08:15:59 pm

I think the current situation and may others can be summed up nicely by a phrase I read in an unrelated paper. The nation and the state are at each others throat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 21, 2017, 09:29:17 pm

Ciudadanos are nutcases?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2017, 09:07:08 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2017, 08:28:38 am

BTW, the Iraqi Kurds are doing something similar, but Iraq isn't throwing an absolute fit over it. Complaining, yes, and they are preoccupied by the ISIS fight, but they aren't acting the same way as Spain does. Iraq even seems reluctantly supportive if the Kurdish referendum does go through with a yes vote.
Also, you're pulling a massive slippery slope fallacy.

Iraq is throwing a massive fit over it, declaring it illegal (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/iraq-top-court-rules-suspend-kurdish-referendum-170918102729593.html) and inviting their neighbours to come to their aid (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/regional-implications-kurdish-independence-vote-170918123748896.html) including Turkey. They'd act sooner if most of their sons weren't dead tbh, so I don't understand where this "supportive" idea comes from, Iraq is preparing for a consequential phase of civil war, they are not cool with this. Even the US & the UN are warning that now is not the time. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/world/middleeast/iraqi-kurds-independence-vote.html)
[/quote]

Lack of knowledge on it then, my mistake, and I do know that the US and Iraq are saying now is not the time, but the Kurds are having none of it and are pushing ahead with their referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 23, 2017, 03:21:17 am

that's mostly because iraq barely exists since the death of old boy saddam and can't do shit about the Kurds

i don't see iraq agreeing to any sort of kurdistan in the foreseeable future

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 23, 2017, 11:08:24 am

Right now, agreement is irrelevant. The Kurds have been preparing to fight for a Kurdistan for decades, and they know the moment has come more than anybody. They're so autonomous from Iraq they might as well be independent, we all know what's going down in Syria, and international relations towards Turkey are undergoing a shift. If you believe Trump is going to invade Iran, that makes every Kurdish territory up for grabs.

I can't imagine the Kurds so much as giving the time of day to someone asking that they cooperate with "their" governments at this point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 23, 2017, 01:59:53 pm

and that means that we will have another arab-israeli war, but this time it's kurds vs. turkey & possibly Iran & possible intervention from arab states & whatever troops Bashar and whoever rules Iraq can spare

and this time kurdisrael doesn't have much international support

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 23, 2017, 04:44:17 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on September 23, 2017, 01:59:53 pm

and that means that we will have another arab-israeli war, but this time it's kurds vs. turkey & possibly Iran & possible intervention from arab states & whatever troops Bashar and whoever rules Iraq can spare

and this time kurdisrael doesn't have much international support

what have you been smoking?

EDIT: meanwhile in Spain, the Spanish government has taken away all power and authority from the regional police in Catalonia, and will transfer 5000 police officers from the national police to Catalonia to take control.

In response, people have taken to the streets en masse in Barcelona, sleeping in the streets, and determined not to leave until the referendum date.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 23, 2017, 05:12:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 23, 2017, 04:44:17 pm

what have you been smoking?

dank news

Probably better off for middle east thread though

Quote from: martinuzz on September 23, 2017, 04:44:17 pm

EDIT: meanwhile in Spain, the Spanish government has taken away all power and authority from the regional police in Catalonia, and will transfer 5000 police officers from the national police to Catalonia to take control.
In response, people have taken to the streets en masse in Barcelona, sleeping in the streets, and determined not to leave until the referendum date.

They wot

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on September 23, 2017, 05:20:33 pm

How could that move help with anything? Are they actively trying to make it worse?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 23, 2017, 05:30:08 pm

Quote from: andrea on September 23, 2017, 05:20:33 pm

How could that move help with anything? Are they actively trying to make it worse?

Suppose the most important thing would be whether the Catalonian Spanish support the Spanish national police presence

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2017, 05:33:14 pm

To clarify: They transferred control of the regional police from the regional goverment to the central goverment. They haven't abolished the regional police.

They do have thousands of Civil Guard (aka MP)  in ships in the Barcelona harbor, though

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 23, 2017, 05:30:08 pm

Quote from: andrea on September 23, 2017, 05:20:33 pm

How could that move help with anything? Are they actively trying to make it worse?

Suppose the most important thing would be whether the Catalonian Spanish support the Spanish national police presence

A very good question to which I dont have an answer.

I'd hazard that since in the last 4 years positions have grown increasingly polarized, a good deal of them sympzthize with the right wing central goverment, so they might be ok with it.

Then again... the Guardia Civil tends to be notoriously heavy handed if not outright brutal.   I'm thinking even they might find an intervention by them unpleasant, if only for practical rather than ideological terms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2017, 05:42:01 pm

So... is there any terrorist related nonsense they're worried about from the Catalonians? 'cause holy shit overreact much

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2017, 06:02:04 pm

No. They want to completely dismantle the apparatus for the referendum the first of october, they´re uncertain as to what the regional police will do, and want to make sure they have the manpower to deal with it. I don´t think that worries about terrorism are really on the table at present.


As an addenum: That the central goverment would strongarm the referendum into not happening was a given, and I suspect that wasn´t even the real angle of the Govern. I think  that their real aim was to scare the conservative party into agreeing to a comission to study territorial reform in Spain, which they did. IMO it will be in that comission where we´ll be seeing important stuff take place. 


Some more trivia: apparently the National Police and the Civil Guard units transferred to Catalonia are rather unhappy about it, because it was done with little prior warning, cancelling leaves, and because the lodgings at the ships provided by the goverment are rather shitty.  Some of them uploaded footage of the place complaining that it was a "first class hole".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 12:21:52 am

This happening right now makes the German election even more boring by comparison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2017, 08:48:35 am

Are they trying to anger the Catalonians into outright seccession? Because this is how you do it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2017, 08:51:22 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2017, 06:02:04 pm

No. They want to completely dismantle the apparatus for the referendum the first of october, they´re uncertain as to what the regional police will do, and want to make sure they have the manpower to deal with it. I don´t think that worries about terrorism are really on the table at present.


As an addenum: That the central goverment would strongarm the referendum into not happening was a given, and I suspect that wasn´t even the real angle of the Govern. I think  that their real aim was to scare the conservative party into agreeing to a comission to study territorial reform in Spain, which they did. IMO it will be in that comission where we´ll be seeing important stuff take place.

If the referendum is an aim to scare the Spanisn conservative party into agreeing to territorial reform, it's a hell of a way to do it.

edit: meant to edit previous post...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 24, 2017, 09:46:50 am

Its probably the only way they were going to do it. They've not fulfilled yet the full terms of the Gernika agreement for Basque self goverment, and that was 30 years ago


EDIT: Relevant Addenum: Spanish Newspaper El Pais has published a poll done recently in Catalunya

https://elpais.com/ccaa/2017/09/23/catalunya/1506191226_220170.html

Some highlights

- 60% of Catalonians regard the current referendum as invalid

- That being said, 82% of Catalonians are in favor of holding a referendum. Most notably, even voters of ostensibly centralist parties are in favor (57% of Ciudadanos voters, 49% of PP voters)

- Catalonian PP voters show a certain degree of obvliviousness as 65% of them think its more likely for a PP central goverment to agree to a referendum than any other goverment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Detoxicated on September 24, 2017, 11:47:48 am

The political landscape has shifted quite much today...
alt-right like afd party is third

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 24, 2017, 12:13:10 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 23, 2017, 04:44:17 pm

what have you been smoking?

i dunno but i wanna share

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2017, 12:49:56 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 12:21:52 am

This happening right now makes the German election even more boring by comparison.

Merkel is quietly elected to fourth term as German chancellor. (http://thehill.com/policy/international/352147-merkel-elected-to-fourth-term-as-german-chancellor)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 24, 2017, 05:01:27 pm

Nothing 'quietly' about it. More like, the biggest landslide in politics in Germany since ww2, with 13% of all votes going to the NSDAP AfD.
Worrisome. I hope we don't need to nuke Heroshima and Nagasaki again (unless KJU beats us to it).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 24, 2017, 05:46:15 pm

>biggest landslide
>13%
pretty lame tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 05:54:21 pm

That's German politics for you, the absolute proof that moderation and centralism can also be a problem when taken to extremes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2017, 06:20:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 24, 2017, 05:01:27 pm

Nothing 'quietly' about it. More like, the biggest landslide in politics in Germany since ww2, with 13% of all votes going to the NSDAP AfD.
Worrisome. I hope we don't need to nuke Heroshima and Nagasaki again (unless KJU beats us to it).

I was riffing a joke off of MSH's 'boring' comment, hence the tiny font size.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 24, 2017, 10:28:15 pm

Does AfD have a grinning kek demon to compete with Farage?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 10:32:00 pm

I heard a German guy say that their talking head constantly emphasizes that she's an attractive lesbian, in those exact words (in German, presumably)?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 24, 2017, 10:35:02 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 10:32:00 pm

I heard a German guy say that their talking head constantly emphasizes that she's an attractive lesbian, in those exact words (in German, presumably)?

Cannot unsee German dominatrix schiesse porn now. That is now headcanon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 24, 2017, 10:38:12 pm

They can't be that bad if they let a minority represent them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 25, 2017, 01:08:42 am

Doubt that very much. They are against gay marriage and in favor of "trafitional" nuclear families

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 25, 2017, 01:12:47 am

I mean, CDU/CSU is just about the same on that front.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 25, 2017, 01:24:49 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 25, 2017, 01:08:42 am

Doubt that very much. They are against gay marriage and in favor of "trafitional" nuclear families

I think that was more a joke in poor taste about the "attractive lesbian" being a minority. I could be wrong though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 25, 2017, 03:09:04 am

Will be interesting to see how AfD evolve, they used to be a brainy anti-euro party, and there is still a lot of tensions between that and the more classical anti-Islam and anti-immigrants populist they mostly have become.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 25, 2017, 04:49:50 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 25, 2017, 03:09:04 am

Will be interesting to see how AfD evolve, they used to be a brainy anti-euro party, and there is still a lot of tensions between that and the more classical anti-Islam and anti-immigrants populist they mostly have become.

Its funny that you say that because AFD party chairman Frauke Petry just announced her split from the party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 25, 2017, 04:54:46 am

Indeed, and the reason she gave is that she feels the AfD has become too extreme-right for her, so she no longer wants to be part of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 25, 2017, 04:56:15 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 05:54:21 pm

That's German politics for you, the absolute proof that moderation and centralism can also be a problem when taken to extremes.

absolutely  n e u t r a l

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 25, 2017, 05:18:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 25, 2017, 04:56:15 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2017, 05:54:21 pm

That's German politics for you, the absolute proof that moderation and centralism can also be a problem when taken to extremes.

absolutely  n e u t r a l

Spoiler: I have no strong feelings one way or the other (click to show/hide)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f1/b6/01/f1b6014cec980c6bdfbab5d32c68aa4c--motivation-poster-comics-toons.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2017, 08:19:57 am

Quote from: RedKing on September 25, 2017, 01:24:49 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 25, 2017, 01:08:42 am

Doubt that very much. They are against gay marriage and in favor of "trafitional" nuclear families

I think that was more a joke in poor taste about the "attractive lesbian" being a minority. I could be wrong though.

Nothing quite so sinister. Lesbians are in the minority too, min.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 26, 2017, 04:22:41 pm

Macron had his little speech on his plans for the EU.

As expected, he went full FURSSE. I don't expect the Nordics to be terribly enthusiastic about his plans.

Quote

European sovereignty

    A common European Prosecutor office, to fight terrorism
    To share cross files about Police and terrorism
    A European police Strike Force
    creating a European Civil Security/Search & Rescue force
    To get a European market of Energy
    To create a European Intelligence Academy to fight terrorism
    European military cooperation, France will open its bases, structures and corps to every other European Nation who'd like to contribute to the foundation of a common miltary construction
    Europe needs the industries, the military capabilities and all the equipment necessary to protect its sovereignty.
    Carbon tax on importations at European borders
    European program to support clean vehicles.

Better collaboration with Africa

    Migrations are the result of Globalization, and will continue, it's our challenge to accept it.

Reset of the European Agriculture subsidies policy

    In the other hand: a kind of common "Food and Drugs Administration" Task Force able to control industries and products (refereing to the egg scandal)
    Better fundings and transparency for research, and results of products security, like Glyphosate

Cyber economy

    founding a European 'DARPA' like agency to create new technologies
    a EU fund to invest in future European Google, Facebook and Co...
    More privacy protection, better protection for corporations infrastructures against (hacking and spying)
    Taxation of foreign corporations (GAFA) as much as the European corporations
    Copyright policy: being able to protect the authors and creators, not the service providers.

EU Economy

    Consolidation of European Industries capable to compete world wide against foreign companies
    Consolidation of the € and the €urozone
    Harmonization of Corporation taxes in the EU.
    a common EU budget, filled with the new common taxes, the existing High Frequency Trading Tax, and, why not, with Corporation taxes of members
    Create the grammar of the future European Social rules: a common minimum wage, a common Social Security system
    Social taxes must be based at the maximum of every EU country (context of detached workers).
    a common European school program, with programs shared and harmonized as soon as the secondary school, and common/interoperable diplomae

MORE DEMOCRACY, and let the European people choose what's good for them.

    Some governments don't want to do anything for the european community, they pretend that doing nothing will pay on for their own. They're lying to their people.
    Stop pretending that a European Elite knows what's good for the people, let the people chose what's good for them.
    German boogeyman is Budget transfers; the French boogeyman is imposed Treaties: both will come sooner or later. But it's up to the people to debate about it and to choose what's on it. Trying to stay on our own is a waste of time and armfull for European democracy.
    Elections with Transnational lists
    Transparency on commercial deals, having a European prosecutor to inspect that deals are loyal and fair.
    A commission of 30 members is not possible anymore. Everyone protect is country: 15 members would be more than enough.
    Someday: the UK might find its way back to the EU
    No country must be capable to block every other countries who want to go ahead. It's a fact: Europe is already multispeed, those who want to go ahead ought to be able to go ahead.
    New Cooperation Treaty, based on the Elysée Treaty, with Germany, Italy, and every other country ready to restart a Sovereign European Cooperation, next january in Paris.

Summary grabbed from reddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/72kilf/live_in_english_emmanuel_macron_speech_about/dnj5yqq/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 26, 2017, 04:30:31 pm

What is FURSSE? I thought it might be a Finnish political party, but the abbreviation doesn't show up on the wiki page for Finnish political parties and attempting a wiki search for FURSSE shows nothing relevant.

You could say that's pretty Napoleonic in ambition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 26, 2017, 04:41:29 pm

What's a FURRSE?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 26, 2017, 04:42:15 pm

FURSSE - Fourth United Reich of Socialist States of Europe.

Basically EU Federalism on steroids.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 26, 2017, 04:43:51 pm

Is that a term used in extreme-right circles or somesuch? Never heard of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 26, 2017, 04:46:15 pm

I think he just made it up. Just made it up and expected us to ask so he could draw us in, just like a budding godhead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 26, 2017, 04:51:13 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 26, 2017, 04:46:15 pm

I think he just made it up. Just made it up and expected us to ask so he could draw us in, just like a budding godhead.

You ever tried to coin something as an anonymous user on the internet? It's hopeless, nobody ever listens to you. :-\

I've used it a couple of times to describe the extreme pro-EU stance on /r/europe. It hasn't really caught on yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 26, 2017, 09:54:41 pm

I feel your pain. I've been trying to push BEPHPB myself to refers to people who have extreme anti-EU stance, but I couldn't get it to catch on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 29, 2017, 03:52:25 am

Double post, but I found this midly intersting. If Germany had a FPTP system like the UK, that's what the Bundestag would look like and we'd be talking of a Merkel landslide:


(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21768258_10155574274943758_5927257760143582436_n.jpg?oh=e0653bce369889c269571d1b49120259&oe=5A4471E1)

(Legend is "first vote majority in the 299 constituencies).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 29, 2017, 05:18:54 am

Quote from: Sheb on September 29, 2017, 03:52:25 am

Double post, but I found this midly intersting. If Germany had a FPTP system like the UK, that's what the Bundestag would look like and we'd be talking of a Merkel landslide:


(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21768258_10155574274943758_5927257760143582436_n.jpg?oh=e0653bce369889c269571d1b49120259&oe=5A4471E1)

(Legend is "first vote majority in the 299 constituencies).

Quote

Even if Germany had Britain’s first-past-the-post electoral system, Angela Merkel would be struggling this morning to form a government. With 33 per cent of the vote, her Christian Democrat and Christian Social alliance has suffered its weakest showing in 68 years – tempered only by the equal failure of the socialists.

Dunno m8 (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/the-real-winner-of-germanys-election-is-jean-claude-juncker/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on September 29, 2017, 07:32:33 am

Well no, with FPTP and the same voting tallies, she'd have a huge majority (77% of seats). Of course, the voting pattern probably wouldn't be the same under FPTP (you'd see more tactical voting, less smaller parties), so it's at best midly interesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 29, 2017, 01:19:11 pm

That's how FPTP works, LW. You can win with a ludicrously low amount of votes using gerrimandering and only the largest party gets seats. Merkelboiis could win with much less than 33% of the vote if that was the case, as it would be enough to simply get largest opponent vote % + 1 vote in every district and you'd have every seat in the Parliament. That is an extremely unlikely scenario, but much more likely than with using D'Hondt method or proportional representation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 29, 2017, 01:29:16 pm

He knows how it works, his own country does it.

The last two elections from GB also kinda show how FPTP is not really that great.

In 2015, Tories get 11m-ish votes, or 36% of the vote, and get a (slight) majority.

Two years later, Tories get 13m-ish votes, or 40% of the vote, and have to bribe some fundamentalist terrorists to remain in power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 29, 2017, 02:53:34 pm

I've said it before:

Proportional representation with a vote threshold and single transferable vote.

A vote threshold to prevent splintering of the political landscape and to prevent small parties from having disproportionate amount of power for the amount of seats they have (yes that is the case for small parties) and transferable vote to prevent strategic voting when it comes to parties that may or may not reach the threshold.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 29, 2017, 05:05:10 pm

Pretty much what hector said
I love it when getting more popular causes you to lose. Top banter

I will say this, the one advantage is that having MPs tied to constituencies allows you to get rid of shit MPs. On the flip side it's also cancer, and I think it'd be more sensible just to split local representatives from national representatives, so you'd vote for a local MP and a national MP

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on September 29, 2017, 05:23:01 pm

I'd just have one house/chamber of government be proportional and one be constituency based, or based on a derivative of constituencies and give them a lot of the same powers and duties as regards drafting, reviewing and approving legislation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 29, 2017, 05:53:23 pm

Right, then. Tomorrow is the big day for Gothenburg. Will we have a small and tidy Nazi band spending the afternoon being shouted down, or will we have another riot?

It matters in Union politicics, for goodness me, Nazis regaining this degree of momentum is not a good sign at all. It is also rather unpleasant that militant individuals across Europe is racing to intercept or to join them. I shall return with general information and impressions thereof tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on September 29, 2017, 06:03:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 29, 2017, 05:05:10 pm

I will say this, the one advantage is that having MPs tied to constituencies allows you to get rid of shit MPs. On the flip side it's also cancer, and I think it'd be more sensible just to split local representatives from national representatives, so you'd vote for a local MP and a national MP

Germany has precisely that - look into MMP. It's pretty much the best of both worlds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 30, 2017, 03:13:39 am

Quote from: Silverthrone on September 29, 2017, 05:53:23 pm

Right, then. Tomorrow is the big day for Gothenburg. Will we have a small and tidy Nazi band spending the afternoon being shouted down, or will we have another riot?

It matters in Union politicics, for goodness me, Nazis regaining this degree of momentum is not a good sign at all. It is also rather unpleasant that militant individuals across Europe is racing to intercept or to join them. I shall return with general information and impressions thereof tomorrow.

It is a direct consequence of the massive immigration we have seen.

The way unlimited immigration empowers the far right is one of the reasons I think it is a bad idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 30, 2017, 06:45:02 am

That sounds a bit like 'hey, if we kill all jews, there'd be no nazis'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2017, 06:46:30 am

Just one more thing we can blame on the immigrants, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2017, 07:03:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 30, 2017, 06:46:30 am

Just one more thing we can blame on the immigrants, I guess.

Immigrants are not responsible for setting immigration policies, the government is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 30, 2017, 07:18:13 am

Well NMR seems to be held up by police.

Counter-protesters have forced themselves past the police and are marching towards NMR.

EDIT: Deadlock at Liseberg railway station. NMR and counter-protesters at opposing sides, with police in-between.

EDIT2: Tensions growing, firecrackers thrown (by counter-protesters?) and people from both sides have been arrested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2017, 07:52:59 am

Quote from: scriver on September 30, 2017, 07:03:10 am

Quote from: hector13 on September 30, 2017, 06:46:30 am

Just one more thing we can blame on the immigrants, I guess.

Immigrants are not responsible for setting immigration policies, the government is.

Immigrants are responsible for immigrating, though. Whether that's for for economic reasons or for their own safety, it's all their fault.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on September 30, 2017, 08:05:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 30, 2017, 06:45:02 am

That sounds a bit like 'hey, if we kill all jews, there'd be no nazis'

Come on, please don't equate genocide with being an opponent of immigration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 30, 2017, 08:08:22 am

NMR booing, fighting among the counter-protesters (unknown group), counter-protesters throwing stuff at the police.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on September 30, 2017, 02:55:35 pm

The events of the day cannot be noted as any sort of success for the Nazis. The rally did not go very well, in fact, it did not even went going, strictly speaking, for the whole blasted thing broke down in scuffles and was stopped several streets away from the rallying point.
There were counter-protesters aplenty, many ordinary townsfolk, and quite a few were activists, some from abroad. That was not a surprise, as every Antifa chapter in the Nordics and environs had mobilised in advance. Thus, had the Nazis been abandoned to fend for themselves, it would have gotten ugly, and they could very well have been butchered, like is often the case in this city. Not that they ever seem to be very grateful nor kind towards their guardian angels in riot-gear.

The thing is, the Nazis had been assigned a route and told to stick to it. The police had cordoned that particular street (and surrounding neighbourhoods), in preparation. Then, before they could begin the march proper, the Nazis stormed a police line in order to break through and march on a different path. Why they did so is unclear. Some claim they were hit by stones from nearby counter-protesters, others that they did not plan to obey the police on the matter at all.
Well, long story shortened, they were surrounded by the police on the lawn outside a service centre, and the disruptive members (including Mr. Simon Lindberg, leader of the movement) were detained. The march did not continue from there, and they were eventually ferried off so that they could begin the return-march to where they started from. Quite embarrasing, all together.

There were also scuffles between the police and groups of counter-protesters; these were attempting to break past police lines and make contact with the Nazis. The most violent (and pictured) scuffles were of this nature, when activists tried to force a way into the area in which the Nazis had been corraled, partly because the police were attempting to expand that area further.

What I find quite uplifting is that this has been a rather ordinary early autumn Saturday, in many respects. The weather was fantastic, a last hurrah of the fading summer, and I believe many people (including me) decided to do their damndest to make the most of it, disturbances or not. Indeed, the city amusement park (which was effectively just across the street from the main area of disturbances) remained open as usual throughout, only temporarily closing their main entrance when the fight between the police and the counter-protest activists broke out. While it was not exactly a surprise that activists would come rolling in to put a stop to the Nazi's plans, it is reassuring that so many perfectly ordinary citizens decided to turn up en-masse to tell the Nazis, in no uncertain terms, to bugger off.
I had a surprisingly lovely day, in fact. Once it became clear that were was nothing further to contribute (unless I would like to join in and throw stones at the police for not allowing me to get inside the Nazi play-pen, which I do not care to do), and my display of displeasure was no longer required, I went to the pub and had a few drinks in the sun instead. I was not the only one who did so. Indeed, with all the events and circumstance of the day, it felt more like an odd carneval, at times. Particularly when the Clowns Against Nazism (proper clowns, not DF-clowns, I fear) went past.

Hats off, in particular, for the police. They did an excellent work, both in responding to a situation slipping out of their hands and ensuring it did not go uglier than it had. A worse police response could easily have caused a riot proper. Not particularly fun job, mind, but they did it well.

Quote from: Antioch on September 30, 2017, 08:05:20 am

Quote from: martinuzz on September 30, 2017, 06:45:02 am

That sounds a bit like 'hey, if we kill all jews, there'd be no nazis'

Come on, please don't equate genocide with being an opponent of immigration.

Quite... That comparison is rather unwieldy. A severe problem is not made less so simply because it gives the Nazis a powerful whine-vector. The immigration policies and their results the last decade or so have been a hideous shamble, and even if it is a well-whipped Nazi hobby-horse, it is no less true because of it. But, being idiot enough to throw one's lot with the Nazis for the sake of steering up the failed migration is of course rather like burning down one's house to sort out the damp, now that we speak in comparisons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2017, 03:07:07 pm

@immigration stuff and far-right stuff: Immigrants are just a convenient foil for those raging about the same reasons that they voted for Trump, voted Macron, and voted Brexit. Immigration wouldn't be the only reason why there is the dissatisfaction and the appearance of neonazis gaining a degree of momentum.

Anyhow, that Catalan referendum is tomorrow, so, it remains to be seen how that stuff will go.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2017, 03:46:03 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 30, 2017, 03:07:07 pm

@immigration stuff and far-right stuff: Immigrants are just a convenient foil for those raging about the same reasons that they voted for Trump, voted Macron, and voted Brexit. Immigration wouldn't be the only reason why there is the dissatisfaction and the appearance of neonazis gaining a degree of momentum.

Yeah, no. Don't even begin to compare Swedish and American immigration situations. They are nothing alike.

As for why the immigration policies have fed the extreme right  (Beyond just actual neonazis), that's because nobody else has dared speak about the problems caused by said policies. Remember, the Sweden Democrats (far right party grown out of literal neonazis in the 90's, now at least supposedly not neonazi any longer) is one of the most popular parties among immigrants. I'm fairly certain that this is simply because they're the only mainstream party who speaks about these things at all, even if they're actively hostile to the immigrants themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2017, 03:59:01 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 30, 2017, 03:46:03 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 30, 2017, 03:07:07 pm

@immigration stuff and far-right stuff: Immigrants are just a convenient foil for those raging about the same reasons that they voted for Trump, voted Macron, and voted Brexit. Immigration wouldn't be the only reason why there is the dissatisfaction and the appearance of neonazis gaining a degree of momentum.

Yeah, no. Don't even begin to compare Swedish and American immigration situations. They are nothing alike.

Um, I didn't even mention Sweden. My point though is that immigration is just a common scapegoat when it isn't the only or neccesarily the main factor in feeding the extreme right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2017, 04:23:53 pm

The context was Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2017, 04:49:08 pm

The context was immigration empowering the far-right, the exemplar was Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 07:22:26 am

the Civil Guard is using rubber bullets against protesters. 38 wounded, 3 seriously so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 08:47:30 am

Spain is currently a shitshow, but apparently that's the only way to restore rule of law.

Puigdemont, the madman of infinite wisdom, should not have made it binding. But I guess he was too tired to play the politics game and decided to pull the trigger instead.

Spanish Civil War 2: Catalan Boogaloo coming to your theater, soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 08:49:06 am

My newspaper reports over 330 people have been injured by police intervention now.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-onze-correspondent-mensen-zeggen-nu-weten-we-dat-we-in-dictatuur-leven~a4519474/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 08:52:43 am

Addenum: 337 wounded (edit: ninjaed)

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 08:47:30 am

Spain is currently a shitshow, but apparently that's the only way to restore rule of law.

You're shitting me right.

BTW they didnt want to let them do a referendum, binding or not, period.

Also, Puigdemont said he wouldnt declare independence unilaterally.

I'm kind of wondering about what kind of news are people listening to because everyone here seems to idealize or demonize the nationalists. And guys, the situation is far more nuanced than that. The referendum is very flawed the way it was laid down, but its also an  understsndable move after 30 years of broken promises

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 09:01:57 am

Primarily a consequence of not knowing the nuances maybe? Plus the Spanish news media is likely already polarized, so....

And yeah, I get that it wasn't a kneejerk reaction like the whole California seccession thing was (the effort died before getting a chance to get on the ballot).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 09:04:02 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 08:52:43 am

BTW they didnt want to let them do a referendum, binding or not, period.

Also, Puigdemont said he wouldnt declare independence unilaterally.

I'm kind of wondering about what kind of news are people listening to because everyone here seems to idealize or demonize the nationalists. And guys, the situation is far more nuanced than that. The referendum is very flawed the way it was laid down, but its also an  understsndable move after 30 years of broken promises

Well someone clearly is preparing to declare independence within 48 hours. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/06/spanish-government-condemns-catalonia-over-independence-referendum)

Quote

The Catalan government insists that the results of the October vote will be legally binding. If successful, the regional government will declare independence from Spain 48 hours after the result is in and set about building a sovereign state.

And without the consent of Spain, that's textbook definition of unilateral secession.

EDIT: So he changed his mind because of the crackdown? (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalans-prepare-to-defy-madrid-in-banned-independence-vote-idUSKCN1C50EO)

Quote

Puigdemont originally said that if the “yes” vote won, the Catalan government would declare independence within 48 hours, but regional leaders have since acknowledged Madrid’s crackdown has undermined the vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 09:10:15 am

The Guardian has a liveblog on it btw: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 09:25:28 am

... Dragging people out of voting booths by their hair, and spanish police attacking catalan fire fighting services. This is all great PR for Spain, right there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 09:37:12 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 09:25:28 am

... Dragging people out of voting booths by their hair, and spanish police attacking catalan fire fighting services. This is all great PR for Spain, right there.

Indeed. See, I think that the referendum has gained importance just by the way the central goverment has given it importance. If they had mostly ignored it and kept as they had for the last week (seizing material, bringing down computer systems, etc...) then it likely would have busted quietly. But with violent reprisal they´re bringing to the mind of many Francoist era repression (and post-Francoist era, too. In my homeland we had this sort of thing happen on a regular basis until very recently)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 09:44:38 am

It certainly seems like Rajoy is unintentionally pushing the Catalans towards actual seccession and he'll have nobody but himself to blame. Also, Catalan MPs and opposition MPs are calling for Rajoy to resign over the police violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 09:57:54 am

Unintentionally? This sort of thing earns him votes among his more radical supporters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 09:58:56 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 09:04:02 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 08:52:43 am

BTW they didnt want to let them do a referendum, binding or not, period.

Also, Puigdemont said he wouldnt declare independence unilaterally.

I'm kind of wondering about what kind of news are people listening to because everyone here seems to idealize or demonize the nationalists. And guys, the situation is far more nuanced than that. The referendum is very flawed the way it was laid down, but its also an  understsndable move after 30 years of broken promises

Well someone clearly is preparing to declare independence within 48 hours. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/06/spanish-government-condemns-catalonia-over-independence-referendum)

Quote

The Catalan government insists that the results of the October vote will be legally binding. If successful, the regional government will declare independence from Spain 48 hours after the result is in and set about building a sovereign state.

And without the consent of Spain, that's textbook definition of unilateral secession.

EDIT: So he changed his mind because of the crackdown? (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalans-prepare-to-defy-madrid-in-banned-independence-vote-idUSKCN1C50EO)

Quote

Puigdemont originally said that if the “yes” vote won, the Catalan government would declare independence within 48 hours, but regional leaders have since acknowledged Madrid’s crackdown has undermined the vote.

Perhaps they are referring to the fear that if you go out to vote you'll likely get hurt, and that will make the vote become non-representative of the views in the region.

Also, if the people voted to become independent and Puigdemont declares such, it doesn't really matter because nobody of any influence in the world is going to recognise it. Rajoy knows this, yet is still happy to use violence to get them to stop, instead of making the Catalans feel like they're a valued part of Spain.

This is not a good thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 10:06:44 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 09:57:54 am

Unintentionally? This sort of thing earns him votes among his more radical supporters.

Seems like a really dumb thing to directly cause the balkanization of Spain, and Catalonia leaving will hurt quite a lot since it's a quarter of the Spanish economy.

Quote from: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 09:58:56 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 09:04:02 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 08:52:43 am

BTW they didnt want to let them do a referendum, binding or not, period.

Also, Puigdemont said he wouldnt declare independence unilaterally.

I'm kind of wondering about what kind of news are people listening to because everyone here seems to idealize or demonize the nationalists. And guys, the situation is far more nuanced than that. The referendum is very flawed the way it was laid down, but its also an  understsndable move after 30 years of broken promises

Well someone clearly is preparing to declare independence within 48 hours. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/06/spanish-government-condemns-catalonia-over-independence-referendum)

Quote

The Catalan government insists that the results of the October vote will be legally binding. If successful, the regional government will declare independence from Spain 48 hours after the result is in and set about building a sovereign state.

And without the consent of Spain, that's textbook definition of unilateral secession.

EDIT: So he changed his mind because of the crackdown? (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalans-prepare-to-defy-madrid-in-banned-independence-vote-idUSKCN1C50EO)

Quote

Puigdemont originally said that if the “yes” vote won, the Catalan government would declare independence within 48 hours, but regional leaders have since acknowledged Madrid’s crackdown has undermined the vote.

Perhaps they are referring to the fear that if you go out to vote you'll likely get hurt, and that will make the vote become non-representative of the views in the region.

Also, if the people voted to become independent and Puigdemont declares such, it doesn't really matter because nobody of any influence in the world is going to recognise it. Rajoy knows this, yet is still happy to use violence to get them to stop, instead of making the Catalans feel like they're a valued part of Spain.

This is not a good thing.

Putin probably would, just to give a middle finger to the West. Also, Trump has said that he'd rather Spain remain united, but I don't think he has said anything specific about intending to recognize an independent Catalonia or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 10:37:06 am

465 wounded

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 01:28:16 pm

In Marseilles, two young women (17 and 20) were killed by a man shouting Alahu Akhbar, while he sliced open one woman's abdomen, and slit another woman's throat. The man was shot and killed by the police shortly after. St. Charles station has been evacuated and the police asks people to avoid the area.

Meanwhile in Canada, a man ran over a traffic cop with a van, and proceeded to stab him repeatedly with a knife.
When Canadian police spotted the van used in the attack, it ran over 4 pedestrians in the following chase. Two hours later, the 30 year old driver was arrested. An IS flag was found in the van.
The traffic cop is in hospital, but out of life danger. The fate of the hit pedestrians is as of yet unknown.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 01:32:50 pm

Guy Verhofstadt's two cents:

Quote

I don’t want to interfere in the domestic issues of Spain but I absolutely condemn what happened today in Catalonia.

On one hand, the separatist parties went forward with a so-called referendum that was forbidden by the Constitutional Court, knowing all too well that only a minority would participate as 60 % of the Catalans are against separation.

And on the other hand - even when based on court decisions - the use of disproportionate violence to stop this.

In the European Union we try to find solutions through political dialogue and with respect for the constitutional order as enshrined in the Treaties, especially in art. 4.

It’s high time for de-escalation. Only a negotiated solution in which all political parties, including the opposition in the Catalan Parliament, are involved and with respect for the Constitutional and legal order of the country, is the way forward.

(Emphasis mine)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 01, 2017, 01:55:02 pm

There was no situation where Spain would ever have let them do this. It would have been effectively committing suicide to do so. No state can ever let a part of it illegaly seceed. No other country would either as it would directly threaten there stability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 01:58:48 pm

Catalonians wounded increased to 761. At some places Catalonian police is now trying to protect protestors from the national police.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:06:12 pm

Recent polls had that 41% of Catalonians supported independence. I'm kind of wondering whether the brutality could increase that over 50%. They could be digging their own grave. If independence was so unpopular as the Spanish prime minister was suggesting then it might have been safer to let the thing fizzle by itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on October 01, 2017, 02:07:49 pm

Western style of democracy:
Plebs vote like you want them to - The people have spoken.
Plebs vote like you don't want them to - The people are mistaken, let them try again
Plebs disagree - Send in the tanks, kill the turrists
Plebs agree - Clearly, the people support our wise and just policy

i r8 dis b8 9/11, gr8 f8 no h8

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 01, 2017, 02:10:09 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:06:12 pm

Recent polls had that 41% of Catalonians supported independence. I'm kind of wondering whether the brutality could increase that over 50%. They could be digging their own grave. If independence was so unpopular as the Spanish prime minister was suggesting then it might have been safer to let the thing fizzle by itself.

I have no doubts that support for independence has gone up, given the brutality shown by the castillian government.

Quote from: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 01:58:48 pm

At some places Catalonian police is now trying to protect protestors from the national police.

And considering this is happening, it's pretty obvious the situation will continue to escalate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 02:14:07 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:06:12 pm

Recent polls had that 41% of Catalonians supported independence. I'm kind of wondering whether the brutality could increase that over 50%. They could be digging their own grave. If independence was so unpopular as the Spanish prime minister was suggesting then it might have been safer to let the thing fizzle by itself.

It actually was so. Catalonian nationalist parties had less total votes than non-nationalist ones. But see, if he did that he wouldn´t look as tough to his right wing voter base. Therefore he escalated the situation instead.

Quote

I don’t want to interfere in the domestic issues of Spain but I absolutely condemn what happened today in Catalonia.

On one hand, the separatist parties went forward with a so-called referendum that was forbidden by the Constitutional Court, knowing all too well that only a minority would participate as 60 % of the Catalans are against separation.

And on the other hand - even when based on court decisions - the use of disproportionate violence to stop this.

In the European Union we try to find solutions through political dialogue and with respect for the constitutional order as enshrined in the Treaties, especially in art. 4.

It’s high time for de-escalation. Only a negotiated solution in which all political parties, including the opposition in the Catalan Parliament, are involved and with respect for the Constitutional and legal order of the country, is the way forward

.
...likewise, 80% of the problem is that the PP goverment didn´t want to reach any sort of negotiated solution anytime soon (and for the record, 30 years afterwards the central goverment STILL hasn't fulfilled the deal struck with the Basque goverment. No wonder the Catalonians are skeptical about their own situation).  The Govern felt this was the only way to make the central goverment sit down to negotiate, and they have a strong point, to be honest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 02:18:12 pm

Catalonian government has said the Spanish government will have to hold itself accountable in international court. I wonder if they're planning to sue them for crimes against civilian population at the ICC in The Hague.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:22:48 pm

Hmm yeah, also the constitutional clause that disallows any sort of referendum on independence is probably not legitimate in terms of international legal principles.

e.g. if you can't even ask to secede legally then your only resort is physical force. Denying any sort of negotiated legal avenue is in fact a dangerous game the Spanish government is playing: asking for independence is not "cheating" on the part of Catalonia. Democratic governments do not "own" people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 02:29:48 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:22:48 pm

Hmm yeah, also the constitutional clause that disallows any sort of referendum is probably not legitimate in terms of international law. e.g. if you can't even ask to secede legally then your only resort is force. Hence, the way Catalonia is doing it is in fact the most legitimate tactic.

They can ask. They just need to amend the constitution, which is legally possible in their free and democratic country. Whether they have the political support for it is another matter, but the international law says nothing about that.

But regarding secession, customary international law is actually quite clear on this matter. The right to self-determination of people in non-colonial territory does not allow unilateral secession, save for remedial secession a la Kosovo--and Catalonia is not in a similar position for that to apply.

The other alternative is to settle it through war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thvaz on October 01, 2017, 02:32:19 pm

What is happening in Catalonia shows very well the real nature of the state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on October 01, 2017, 02:34:27 pm

Quote from: thvaz on October 01, 2017, 02:32:19 pm

What is happening in Catalonia shows very well the real nature of the state.

Shows very little about the State, other than the national government is responding heavily handed to a illegal secession referendum that lacked local, much less national, public support.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 01, 2017, 02:38:07 pm

Seeing as letting them do it is quite literally the state equivilent of suicide it's totally unsurprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 02:52:29 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 01, 2017, 01:55:02 pm

There was no situation where Spain would ever have let them do this. It would have been effectively committing suicide to do so. No state can ever let a part of it illegaly seceed. No other country would either as it would directly threaten there stability.

True, however, as ChairmanPoo says, it's a thing of last resort since the main Spanish government isn't willing to sit down and negotiate with and listen to the grievances that the Catalonians have.

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 02:29:48 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 02:22:48 pm

Hmm yeah, also the constitutional clause that disallows any sort of referendum is probably not legitimate in terms of international law. e.g. if you can't even ask to secede legally then your only resort is force. Hence, the way Catalonia is doing it is in fact the most legitimate tactic.

They can ask. They just need to amend the constitution, which is legally possible in their free and democratic country. Whether they have the political support for it is another matter, but the international law says nothing about that.

But regarding secession, customary international law is actually quite clear on this matter. The right to self-determination of people in non-colonial territory does not allow unilateral secession, save for remedial secession a la Kosovo--and Catalonia is not in a similar position for that to apply.

The other alternative is to settle it through war.

I wonder how that applies to the Kurds since all of the borders there were drawn by the colonialists and not the locals. I mean, would most of the MidEast be considered 'colonial territory' due to the protectorates and stuff under the British and French?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 03:22:37 pm

I don't think former colonies remain colonial territory if they've already seceded.

Then again, I haven't looked enough into Kurdistan, so...

Bangladesh (East Pakistan) might be worth looking into.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 01, 2017, 03:35:02 pm

Quite an apt cartoon on the Catalonian situation by Volkskrant cartoonist

https://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/bas-van-der-schot~p4368443/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 03:46:40 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 03:22:37 pm

Bangladesh (East Pakistan) might be worth looking into.

They had a war over it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War) Which ended up with India getting involved on the side of Bangledesh for various reasons.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 03:56:09 pm

Latest news just in on the Guardian feed:

Quote

Carles Puigdemont, Catalan’s leader, has announced that the region has won the right to independence following today’s referendum

Looks like the Catalonians are doubling-down on this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 04:01:23 pm

So is there going to be a unilateral DOI within 48 hours? That won't end well. People might die.

EDIT: Looks like so. Here comes the civil war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 04:10:04 pm

I hope there isn't a war over it......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 04:14:46 pm

I know. I just can't see Spain backing down. It would be monumentally stupid if they did. Instant constitutional crisis, sovereignty void, economy crashing so soon after the Eurocrisis etc. No country wants that.

Catalonia can't hope to win a war against Spain. Not conventionally. They don't even have an army, nor do they have any foreign military to rely on (save for volunteers, I guess).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 04:16:05 pm

Are all the Spanish politicians this fucking supid, or are Rajoy and Puigdemont special cases?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 04:27:28 pm

Eeh, they are fairly representative of the lot. Few of our politicians are any good.

I was not expecting any of this, though. Not the doubling down, not the violence. I expected the Govern to use the referendum as a grand gesture (because noone can expect such a thing to be binding, particularily with so few guarantees), and the goverment to throw a hissy fit and seize urns and pull the plug on computer systems. And for both of them to sit down and negotiate a compromise afterwards. 



There are other consequences from all of this. The goverment is in minority at the moment anf they need to approve the budget. Odds are noone will vote with them after this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 04:27:56 pm

Puigdemont is an idiot for going ahead with an obviously illegal referendum.

Rajoy obviously lacks tact, but Puigdemont forced the government's hands. Could they have done it smoother? Maybe. Maybe not. You can't enforce the law (seizing the illegal referendum ballots) if the people are voluntarily obstructing the police from doing their job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 04:34:51 pm

You *shouldn't* enforce the law when it's unjust and immoral. Beating grannies in the street for a referendum thst was all noise and no substance is unjust and immoral. And has made the nationalist's position much stronger. Really, the central goverment has blundered badly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 04:37:12 pm

Puigdemont announced this months ago, the ball has been in Rajoy's court since then and there was a lot more he could've done to deal with the problem between then and now. That likely wouldn't involve the police kicking the shit out of the locals for daring to want a say in how they're ruled.

Ninja'd but whatevs. I'm not a fan of violent political repression. Did not expect to be saying that about Spain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 04:44:34 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 04:34:51 pm

You *shouldn't* enforce the law when it's unjust and immoral. Beating grannies in the street for a referendum thst was all noise and no substance is unjust and immoral. And has made the nationalist's position much stronger. Really, the central goverment has blundered badly

Obstructing the law doesn't make them saints, either. There was a legal court order to seize the ballot boxes and put an end to the referendum. Block the path and you'll get dealt with appropriately.

And quite frankly, after Puigdemont threw out the constitution as used toiled paper, they do not have the monopoly on what is just or moral.

The law has monopoly on what is just, no one has a monopoly on what is moral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 04:52:31 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 04:44:34 pm

Obstructing the law doesn't make them saints, either.

Very much not. I said as much before. I dont know where you people are getting the news, but you keep polarizing around either demonizing the nationalists or whitewashing them. Things are not that simple.

Quote

There was a legal court order to seize the ballot boxes and put an end to the referendum. Block the path and you'll get dealt with appropriately.

Legal court orders don't make it right.

Quote

And quite frankly, after Puigdemont threw out the constitution as used toiled paper, they do not have the monopoly on what is just or moral.

We could discuss for hours the problems inherent to the Spanish constitution, and/or the repeated abuse that the Catalonians have undergone at the hands of the central goverment (eg: delliberate sabotage of the Catalonian healthcare system (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redaccionmedica.com%2Fautonomias%2Fcataluna%2Fcaso-fernandez-diaz-les-hemos-destrozado-el-sistema-sanitario--5394&edit-text=)), or the PP's repeated unwillingness to fulfill it's promises to Catalonia. It's probably not the right thread , and quite frankly I don't have the time to go in extent about this. But once again you're oversimplifying a problem that is very complex and traces down to problems that have been ongoing for decades

Quote

The law has monopoly on what is just, no one has a monopoly on what is moral.

It hasn't got a monopoly on either. It only has a monopoly on what is legal... but you cannot legislate away a whole people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on October 01, 2017, 05:04:08 pm

When legal court is orders don't make it right, then the rule of law itself is broken down, Chairman. Ain't nothing for that except violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 05:12:04 pm

Catalans lost the legal battle.

A moral battle is unwinnable by either side by definition.

All that's left is either accept the legal outcome or go to war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 01, 2017, 05:35:53 pm

You can keep on pushing this whole law and process line until you're blue in the face da_nang, but it doesn't change the way things really work. Law is where legislation, enforcement, and popular support meet. If any one of those is out of line it all falls to pieces, as we saw today.

That is the real reason why the Spanish government is monumentally idiotic, that everybody saw this but they failed to adapt to it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 05:40:33 pm

Catalan has a clear path they can take here. Create a huge stand-off then when things can't get any worse, get the thing heard at The Hague or some other avenue of mediation. Then Catalan would basically get what they want. It would be even easier if they can get at least one other nation to recognize them as a sovereign state. Surely, there's got to be at least one nation who hates Spain and would do that.

MetalSlimeHunt is right, too. Things don't work "by the book". Who can secede is largely dictated by circumstance, forcing the issue, and having strong allies or a weak enemy. "They didn't follow 'the rules' for seceding" is silly. Virtually nobody in history who has successfully seceded followed "the rules" because "the rules" are designed to stop you doing that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 05:54:08 pm

As an update: the referendum had 300.000 voters, with 90% in favor of secession. This  sets participation around 4%. Nonetheless the Govern is regarding the result as valid and representative.


Edit: actual updated results are higher

Quote

Resultados provisionales, según los datos del Govern:
Votos: 2.262.424
Sí: 2.020.144
No: 176.566
En blanco: 45.585
Nulos: 20.129

This would set participation around 30%, if reliable. Not bad all things considered. Still not enough to claim representativeness of results, particularily considering the events of the last hours.

TBH both sides have been pretty asinine in this whole fiasco. But, see, what sets the moral tone is that only one side actually sent the military police to charge against unarmed peaceful civilians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 05:59:53 pm

Fine, then.  :-\

Throw out the law if you want, but don't be surprised if you get thrown out with it.

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 05:40:33 pm

Virtually nobody in history who has successfully seceded followed "the rules"

*cough* I live in one.

EDIT: Either way, it's been a long day and will be long night.

Don't get yourselves killed, folks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 01, 2017, 06:02:59 pm

With the national police actively blocking voting, Catalonia can probably get away with less than 50% of people voting for secession, assuming that the number of people blocked from voting/whose ballots were destroyed is large enough. Then the Catalonian government can say that the total of actual voters + the predicted number in areas where people were prevented from voting is over 50%, or that the number of yes votes would have been over 50%, and so on. And in this case they'd probably be right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 06:12:14 pm

What is it about the law that is so paramount in this instance, da nang?

Laws aren't absolute infallible things, and they are even less so when it comes to things like borders and sovereignty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 06:14:35 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 01, 2017, 05:59:53 pm

Fine, then.  :-\

Throw out the law if you want, but don't be surprised if you get thrown out with it.

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 05:40:33 pm

Virtually nobody in history who has successfully seceded followed "the rules"

*cough* I live in one.

EDIT: Either way, it's been a long day and will be long night.

Don't get yourselves killed, folks.

Finland came about because Russia had just had a coup, and neither Lenin nor the Tsarists could expend the manpower needed to invade you at the same time as fighting each other. Lenin couldn't afford to make any more enemies than he already had, so he was forced to concede when you declared independence. If you'd tried that even a couple of years later, they would have stomped you into the ground with the Red Army.

Thats why you got independence: Opportunism and taking advantage of a civil-war / unstable-political-situation / power-vacuum to declare yourself independent. It had absolutely zero to do with "following established legal precedents". Some guy who'd just lead a violent illegal coup in Russia said it was ok for Finland to be independent. Some "legal" precedent that is.

Remember what I wrote:

Quote

MetalSlimeHunt is right, too. Things don't work "by the book". Who can secede is largely dictated by circumstance, forcing the issue, and having strong allies or a weak enemy. "They didn't follow 'the rules' for seceding" is silly. Virtually nobody in history who has successfully seceded followed "the rules" because "the rules" are designed to stop you doing that.

"circumstance" and "weak enemy" apply to Finland in 1917. The authority that could stop you seceding had completely collapsed, but that collapse was a temporary thing, so "forcing the issue" could apply to, because the Finnish Whites quickly decided to exploit the decree by Lenin because they didn't want to be part of the USSR. The "strong allies" part is also relevant, because The Finnish Whites called in support from Imperial Germany to back up their side in the Finnish Civil War that followed, while the Finnish Reds were defeated and their Soviet allies had to pull their troops out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 01, 2017, 07:39:00 pm

If their expecting the international community to help them their idiots. they wont for the same reasons Spain cant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 01, 2017, 07:53:01 pm

Oh boy. So what we've got here is a large group with very valid grievances being stubborn and shortsighted out of exasperation on one hand, and a brutal crackdown by the Spanish authorities on the other?

That's not a good mix. Did Castile go ahead on that "fire all Catalonian police and replace them with out of state officers" or was that hyperbole?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 07:57:01 pm

You mean Madrid, though Castile would be the appropriate historical name I guess.

I don't think they actually fired all the Catalonian police and replace with out of state officers, what they did was more the equivalent of the Feds plus national guard deciding to do police stuff instead of the local police despite the local polices protests, or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2017, 08:07:05 pm

It was neither.  Catalonian policd was placed under central state control

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 02, 2017, 01:29:01 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on October 01, 2017, 06:02:59 pm

With the national police actively blocking voting, Catalonia can probably get away with less than 50% of people voting for secession, assuming that the number of people blocked from voting/whose ballots were destroyed is large enough. Then the Catalonian government can say that the total of actual voters + the predicted number in areas where people were prevented from voting is over 50%, or that the number of yes votes would have been over 50%, and so on. And in this case they'd probably be right.

To be fair, it appeared that they were going to do that regardless of whether the central government intervened.  The Catalan government didn't set any minimum threshold for turnout, but did declare their intention to move for secession upon a successful "Si" within an exceptionally short time frame.  Given that, as far as I can recall, all parties in opposition to the referendum actively declared their intention to boycott the referendum as illegal, it's not surprising that "No" voters would be tremendously underrepresented with or without the police actively turning out to break heads. 

Quote from: smjjames on October 01, 2017, 07:57:01 pm

You mean Madrid, though Castile would be the appropriate historical name I guess.

Madrid is probably better, Catalan nationalist usage aside.  Accidentally tell an Andalusian, Galego, or Valencian that they're Castilian and you'll get a good earful.  Believe me, I have. :P

EDIT: Minor tweak for clarification.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 02, 2017, 01:48:50 am

Part of the problem is that the PP has largely been behaving as if only an unified Spanish identity (mostly Castilian)  was legitimate.  Whereas Spain has always had very strong regional identities, which would-be rulers had to respect.
 Making things weirder, they weren't always so ridiculously hostile towards Catalonians.  Up until 2000 Puigdemont's party was a frequent coalition ally of the PP.  But especially during the last 7 years the PP has increasingly brought an axe to grind against them, for some reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 02:57:46 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 01, 2017, 06:12:14 pm

What is it about the law that is so paramount in this instance, da nang?

Laws aren't absolute infallible things, and they are even less so when it comes to things like borders and sovereignty.

Society exists because of the social contract, and in a free democratic country the social contract is represented by the law. Throw out the law, throw out the social contract, and all the rights and protections you had are gone.

Those human rights Puigdemont is clamoring about? What are human rights if they're not codified into law and enforced by the rule of law? They would just be a piece of paper.

You can't just throw out the law whenever it doesn't suit you. Not in a free and democratic country. All kinds of horrible shit can be justified by that.

Quote from: Reelya on October 01, 2017, 06:14:35 pm

-snip-

As I recall, Lenin had proclaimed the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia and when Lenin came to power, that became the law of the land. Those rights included the right to full secession. Finland took use of this shortly after it was proclaimed and notified the Russian government of this in November, and made an official declaration a few weeks afterwards in December once they got their response.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 02, 2017, 03:04:40 am

The point was that the crisis in Russia was what made it possible to even declare independence. If you didn't have that circumstance then it wouldn't have happened. Also note that the Soviets sent troops to back the "Red" faction in Finland, so if Imperial Germany hadn't intervened then you probably would have been over-run by the communists anyway. They didn't just sit back and merely let you become fully independent. They tried to install a communist puppet regime while giving lip service to independence.

The other point was that the guy who said you could have independence was himself a law-breaking coup-leader. There's nothing in this story to suggest that sticking to the "legal" avenue to seceding works. You needed a lawbreaker to completely overthrow the host nation to make this remotely possible to pull off.

The message from Finland is like "you too can peacefully secede if and only if someone else violently overthrows the nation you're trying to secede from".

The other main examples of "peaceful" secession are all in similar circumstances. e.g. Eritrea asked for independence after they and the Ethiopians overthrew a dictator in a civil war. As a result, everyone was heavily armed and mobilized. If the Ethiopians rebels had said "no" then they'd have another war, and they couldn't afford to do that before they consolidated their hold on power. So you had a similar circumstance there to Finland during the Russian Revolution - both involved a collapse of the central government that you were trying to secede from!

(BTW Lenin didn't actually control the entire nation of Russia at the time of the Finland decree, his followers held just a few cities. So Lenin didn't have any sort of viable territorial claims on Finland at all. He still needed to conquer most of Russia at that point, it just made sense to drop the claims on bits he didn't need. The nation that you were part of effectively ceased to exist after the coup).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 02, 2017, 03:09:50 am

Law ≠ Social Contract. If everyone followed the law but ignored the contract things would still be pretty broken.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 02, 2017, 04:23:08 am

My country would still have been part of Spain if we had followed the law......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 02, 2017, 04:29:19 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 02:57:46 am

Society exists because of the social contract, and in a free democratic country the social contract is represented by the law. Throw out the law, throw out the social contract, and all the rights and protections you had are gone.

Those human rights Puigdemont is clamoring about? What are human rights if they're not codified into law and enforced by the rule of law? They would just be a piece of paper.

You can't just throw out the law whenever it doesn't suit you. Not in a free and democratic country. All kinds of horrible shit can be justified by that.

You've got to factor in people's willingness to be governed alongside rule of law. UK learned in Ireland that attempting to enforce the law upon people who do not want those laws or your authority is not only going to end in failure, it has a high likelihood of causing tremendous harm for all involved. This is because law has 3 important components in civil society; justice, enforcement & compliance. Justice forms the system, enforcement provides law with force, yet if the people you intend to have follow this law do not want it, then you must sit down and talk with them about it. One of the most valuable tools a democracy has is that its laws can change. There is no need to continue enforcing laws that are not working for your people's benefit. If you cannot convince a people of the merit of your laws, nor can you change them to better fit your people, then this will increase civil discontent and lead to potential rebellion. Should that event occur, force will be hard pressed to solve anything, and negotiations that should have started earlier will be forced in an environment far less amicable to resolution. Whether this will ultimately be solved with the pen or sword, it will not be possible for Madrid to keep Spain united without winning the hearts and minds of all its citizenry. Speaking as one who has had multiple independence referendums and is sick to death of them, and will likely continue dealing with them, even a neverendum referendum bonanza is preferable to a country turning hostile upon itself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 02, 2017, 04:29:19 am

One of the most valuable tools a democracy has is that its laws can change.

Which Spain has. It may be difficult, but the tools are there.

Quote

You've got to factor in people's willingness to be governed alongside rule of law.

Fine, I'll play along. So let's say you have a band of followers, a hundred or so, on a ranch. They've declared that they are not willing to follow the laws of the state. They refuse to pay taxes.

The state sends the tax man to collect taxes, but the band refuses to give the tax man entrance.

The tax man calls for the police to arrest them on account of tax evasion.

The band now decides to shoot the police for trying to enforce the "oppressive" law of the state. Police officers die.

Reinforcement is called in, and now there's a standoff.

Should the law be abandoned, or not? The band of followers are people, no? So they have a right to choose?

At a larger scale, this would be civil war. It's a breakdown of law and civil society.

Realistically and historically, whoever wins decides the outcome.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 05:13:16 am

Don't compare peaceful protestors to trigger happy redneck ranchers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:23:11 am

Peacefulness has nothing to do with it.

You either follow the law of the state or the law of the jungle. That's the reality we live in.

If you manage to overthrow the law of the state with the law of the jungle, then fine. Fait accompli, might is right or whatnot.

The Catalans can either follow the law of the state and try to have the constitution amended, or they can follow the law of the jungle and see where that leads.

Only one of them guarantees their rights and protection, however, but that's their choice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 02, 2017, 05:27:32 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

Which Spain has. It may be difficult, but the tools are there.

Undeniable, but whether the tools are used is another question

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

Fine, I'll play along.

Don't think I'm rusing you, I can sympathize with the fear of having your country carved apart, and hope Spain retains her unity - but I fear her current course of action does not follow the road she believes she is on

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

So let's say you have a band of followers, a hundred or so, on a ranch. They've declared that they are not willing to follow the laws of the state. They refuse to pay taxes.
The state sends the tax man to collect taxes, but the band refuses to give the tax man entrance.
The tax man calls for the police to arrest them on account of tax evasion.
The band now decides to shoot the police for trying to enforce the "oppressive" law of the state. Police officers die.
Reinforcement is called in, and now there's a standoff.
Should the law be abandoned, or not? The band of followers are people, no? So they have a right to choose?

What is clear is that in your example is that by refusing to negotiate with your citizens you have placed them on a warpath with your armed forces and many will die as a result. To talk is not abandoning rule of law, to enforce rule of law under such severe conditions does not cow people into paying taxes and obeying central government, it incentivizes outright rebellion. Reminds me of a general in Imperial China's legalist phase, wherein he was late for a deployment and asked his adjutant what the penalty for being late was. The answer was death. He asked his adjutant what the penalty for rebellion was. The answer was death.

Consider a real world comparison, one almost identical to your scenario in the Clive Bundy ranch standoff. Tax man shows up, gets shooed away. Tax man calls in reinforcement, citizen calls in his own reinforcement, standoff results in lots of guns pointing at one another - so they talk, negotiate and defuse the situation. Eventually the police go home, the militia go home, everyone calms down, and 3 years later the man who didn't pay his taxes is arrested at an airport.
If they had resorted to violence in order to enforce the law, what they would have done is ensure law broke down. Armed conflict between citizenry and state renders the rule of law impossible, not permissible.

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

At a larger scale, this would be civil war. It's a breakdown of law and civil society.
Realistically and historically, whoever wins decides the outcome.

By violently enforcing the law instead of talking to your citizenry, you do not avoid civil war, you ensure it. On a larger scale it will be worse for Spain than the breakdown of law and civil society, the Catalonians will be forced to either submit to the Madrid government or create their own parallel authority, law court, law enforcement, military force and civil service. All of this makes their independence much surer, especially as violent repression will turn people away - Catalonian Terry sitting on the fence of whether to pursue independence or remain in Spain looking at Spanish soldiers beating up Catalonian friends is going to think independence is a lot better than this.

Quote from: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 05:13:16 am

Don't compare peaceful protestors to trigger happy redneck ranchers.

pls no bully amerifreedoms

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 02, 2017, 05:30:03 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:06:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 02, 2017, 04:29:19 am

One of the most valuable tools a democracy has is that its laws can change.

Which Spain has. It may be difficult, but the tools are there.

Quote

You've got to factor in people's willingness to be governed alongside rule of law.

Fine, I'll play along. So let's say you have a band of followers, a hundred or so, on a ranch. They've declared that they are not willing to follow the laws of the state. They refuse to pay taxes.

The state sends the tax man to collect taxes, but the band refuses to give the tax man entrance.

The tax man calls for the police to arrest them on account of tax evasion.

The band now decides to shoot the police for trying to enforce the "oppressive" law of the state. Police officers die.

Reinforcement is called in, and now there's a standoff.

Should the law be abandoned, or not? The band of followers are people, no? So they have a right to choose?

At a larger scale, this would be civil war. It's a breakdown of law and civil society.

Realistically and historically, whoever wins decides the outcome.

A handful of people are not a nation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 06:11:57 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:23:11 am

Peacefulness has nothing to do with it.

You either follow the law of the state or the law of the jungle. That's the reality we live in.

If you manage to overthrow the law of the state with the law of the jungle, then fine. Fait accompli, might is right or whatnot.

The Catalans can either follow the law of the state and try to have the constitution amended, or they can follow the law of the jungle and see where that leads.

Only one of them guarantees their rights and protection, however, but that's their choice.

If you call voting (regardless of validity), and peaceful protest 'law of the jungle', then you have not understood how democracy functions. Freedom of conscience and civil disobedience are both parts of the democratic social contract. You just don't send armed forces against your population like that, even if they only use non-lethal violence. Which is debatable in the case of rubber bullets.

It's not like the people were going about murdering and plundering, they were just trying to express their opinion (by voting), and non-violently blocking locations. Violently oppressing that instead of just letting it (the voting) happen and taking the ball back to the political arena afterwards is the opposite of democracy.
Rajoy messed up big time here.

Not saying that I agree with Puigdemont unilaterally wanting to declare independence, nor do I like to see Spain fall apart. But if it does do that now, that's on Rajoy for being bullheaded and acting like a maniac.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 06:42:02 am

Quote from: scriver on October 02, 2017, 05:30:03 am

A handful of people are not a nation.

The statement used the word people, not nation.

Quote from: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 06:11:57 am

they were just trying to express their opinion (by voting)

They were voting in a referendum made legally binding by Puigdemont and the Catalan government, as given by the Catalans' referendum bill (struck down by the national supreme court but Puigdemont et al. disregarded the verdict anyways), to commit something that was illegal.

Can I have a legally binding referendum to commit theft? Not to change the law against theft, but to actually break it?

EDIT: In other news, the EU Commission has released a statement. (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3626_en.htm)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 02, 2017, 06:48:17 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 06:42:02 am

Quote from: scriver on October 02, 2017, 05:30:03 am

A handful of people are not a nation.

The statement used the word people, not nation.

A people = A nation. They are synonyms. And regardless, a handful of people are not a people.


they were just trying to express their opinion (by voting)
[/quote]
They were voting in a referendum made legally binding by Puigdemont and the Catalan government, as given by the Catalans' referendum bill (struck down by the national supreme court but Puigdemont et al. disregarded the verdict anyways), to commit something that was illegal.

Can I have a legally binding referendum to commit theft? Not to change the law against theft, but to actually break it?

EDIT: [url=http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3626_en.htm]In other news, the EU Commission has released a statement.] (http://[quote author=martinuzz link=topic=155469.msg7581471#msg7581471 date=1506942717)

Quote from: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 06:11:57 am

they were just trying to express their opinion (by voting)

They were voting in a referendum made legally binding by Puigdemont and the Catalan government, as given by the Catalans' referendum bill (struck down by the national supreme court but Puigdemont et al. disregarded the verdict anyways), to commit something that was illegal.

Can I have a legally binding referendum to commit theft? Not to change the law against theft, but to actually break it?

EDIT: In other news, the EU Commission has released a statement. (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3626_en.htm)
[/url]

Apples and oranges. Declaring independence is not comparable to theft.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 02, 2017, 07:18:09 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 05:23:11 am

Peacefulness has nothing to do with it.

You either follow the law of the state or the law of the jungle. That's the reality we live in.

If you manage to overthrow the law of the state with the law of the jungle, then fine. Fait accompli, might is right or whatnot.

The Catalans can either follow the law of the state and try to have the constitution amended, or they can follow the law of the jungle and see where that leads.

Only one of them guarantees their rights and protection, however, but that's their choice.

Okay, slow down a bit. The absence of law doesn't mean I'm going to grab the nearest blunt object and go to town on my neighbour. The absence of law is just that. Absence. It doesn't automatically turn people into savage beasts who will kill each other for the latest dank memes.

Law isn't the sole "civilizatory" force in the world. It doesn't magically make people not be total assholes towards each other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2017, 07:26:50 am

Quote from: da_nang on October 02, 2017, 06:42:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on October 02, 2017, 06:11:57 am

they were just trying to express their opinion (by voting)

They were voting in a referendum made legally binding by Puigdemont and the Catalan government, as given by the Catalans' referendum bill (struck down by the national supreme court but Puigdemont et al. disregarded the verdict anyways), to commit something that was illegal.

Can I have a legally binding referendum to commit theft? Not to change the law against theft, but to actually break it?

EDIT: In other news, the EU Commission has released a statement. (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3626_en.htm)

That comes down to the rule of law thing again; Puigdemont as a regional politician has no actual power beyond his natural charm and charisma to make it legally binding, particularly since the Constitutional Court in Spain said it wasn't.

This essentially made it an unofficial government poll. Madrid could easily let it go ahead have and ignored the result, then prosecuted Puigdemont et al like they did to Arthur Mas after 2014.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 02, 2017, 07:34:45 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22195505_1012389788902577_8974774924186422002_n.png?oh=afa7981ee847c42a38ab4ad57b82875b&oe=5A47FA9E)
1) "Hello! Could I put my Ballot papers in the ballot box please?"
2) "But what are you.. STOP!"
3)
4) The ballot reads "Do you want independence?" with no in ink and yes in blood.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2017, 07:42:19 am

Completely guessing, but the first panel is "hello I can post my ballot in the election, please?"

The second panel thus, still guessing, is "wait, what are you d- hey stop!" or something.

Message being clear though. Silly Rajoy with your silly political repression.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 02, 2017, 07:58:08 am

Edited, because for some reason I didn't think the first panels needed translation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2017, 08:00:56 am

It didn't, I just like to make things awkward for everyone.

Visual medium, the message is pretty clear to be honest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 03, 2017, 03:14:25 pm

The king supported political repression in his speech. Not unexpected.  The only reason we put up with that inbred moron is because of the overpopulation of inbred morons in rural Castile who are happy to maintain that family of parasites and vote corrupt politicians into power. No wonder the Catalonians want to leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Guardian G.I. on October 03, 2017, 07:35:26 pm

According to BBC citing Puigdemont, Catalan unilateral declaration of independence will be proclaimed in "a matter of days". (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41493014)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 03, 2017, 07:59:29 pm

Quote from: Guardian G.I. on October 03, 2017, 07:35:26 pm

According to BBC citing Puigdemont, Catalan unilateral declaration of independence will be proclaimed in "a matter of days". (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41493014)

That won't end well for them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 03:57:24 am

oh snap

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 04, 2017, 04:14:38 am

The most likely result of this would be some Northern Ireland type of occupation. Except Catalonia is much more populous than Northen Ireland (more populous than the entirety of Ireland for that matter), and Spain is militarily much weaker than Britain. And remember, Britain failed to hold onto Ireland despite being an undisputed world superpower at the time who didn't really have to deal with global media and popular opinion.

This isn't something that's necessarily going to go the Spanish government's way. Remember that controlling a territory and it's people is much more than just military might. Catalonia is actually a very mountainous region. I wouldn't be at all surprised if things devolved into the Spanish controlling the area around Barcelona, with Catalan loyalists in the mountainous regions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 04, 2017, 05:33:15 am

Sweet jesus it very much wont come to that. Once again, where are you getting your news?

This is not Civil War Mk II no matter how much some people here seem to be having wet dreams about that. This is a softer rehasal of what went on in the Basque Country in the 80s and 90s (in fact a Basque journalist quipped that this whole ordeal was like Stranger Things for Basque millennials: it kind of reminds us of our childhood).   I think at worst we're talking about the same kind of issues (eg: radicals relaunching Terra Lliure or something like that), smoldering violence for a few years, and then a settlement.  Hopefully it wont even come to that, and after a show of holding a kangaroo trial for the more visible heads of the referendum, both parties will skip the insanity of political violence and come to a settlement directly after a few months. The finance minister hinted as much, Europe is pressing in that direction, and it's what  JxSi really wants anyway (regardless of the rhetoric), so its the most likely outcome.

As a sidenote: I've become more sympathethic to nationalist positions over the last few days... but eeh, it has been happening slowly over the last ten years, anyway.      The suckiness of national politics will do that. Really, if they dont like that our people are growing increasingly disenchanted with the idea of Spain, maybe they should stop treating our cultures like a foreign other?  Spain off started as a personal union of several different kingdoms, and it really only works if the cultures of those places get proper respect. Even our most virulently conservative rulers understood that. It was only with Franco that they started with this bullshit of Spain being "One". Before him even autocratic monarchs styled themselves "King of the SpainS" (emphasis of the plural) and swore to respect the customs of each territory.

As another sidenote: this is also the reason I oppose a fusion with Portugal, an idea which is popular with irredentist Castilians and with a surprisingly high number of Portuguese people.  Because in principle I like the idea of a federal Iberian Republic. I honestly regard all the different peoples of the Iberian Peninsula as brethen, and think that (under non abusive circumstances ) a Federal Iberian Republic would be a good thing. But in practice I dont see any way the central goverment wouldn't disrespect the Portuguese in the same way they disrespect us, or the Catalonians, for that matter. Unfortunatedly central Spain (with the relative exception of Madrid) has a disproportionately high amount of Francoism nostalgics who insist that their culture is the only genuine one , thst Valladolid is the best city in the world, and that bullfighting is the best thing since sliced bread.  So, no, I very much dont want the Portuguese to put up with that shit


Another sidenote: said Francoist holdouts have a huuuge chip on their shoulder about the Catalonian language.

Well guess what: Catalonian, Spanish, and Portuguese are largely mutually intelligible. If you speak slowly in one of them, speakers of the others will understand most of what you're saying. So, yeah, one more example of cultural disrespect from people that really should know better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2017, 06:13:45 am

Lord of the Seven Spains, King of the Castilians, the Catalans, and the Basque Men, Protector of the Realm.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 04, 2017, 05:33:15 am

As another sidenote: this is also the reason I oppose a fusion with Portugal, an idea which is popular with irredentist Castilians and with a surprisingly high number of Portuguese people.  Because in principle I like the idea of a federal Iberian Republic. I honestly regard all the different peoples of the Iberian Peninsula as brethen, and think that (under non abusive circumstances ) a Federal Iberian Republic would be a good thing. But in practice I dont see any way the central goverment wouldn't disrespect the Portuguese in the same way they disrespect us, or the Catalonians, for that matter. Unfortunatedly central Spain (with the relative exception of Madrid) has a disproportionately high amount of Francoism nostalgics who insist that their culture is the only genuine one , thst Valladolid is the best city in the world, and that bullfighting is the best thing since sliced bread.  So, no, I very much dont want the Portuguese to put up with that shit.

Don't worry, sooner or later the pan-European nationalism project of the EU will make your troubles with Madrid moot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 04, 2017, 07:09:25 am

Quote from: scriver on October 04, 2017, 06:13:45 am

Don't worry, sooner or later the pan-European nationalism project of the EU will make your troubles with Madrid moot.

Article 50 intensifies

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 04, 2017, 08:18:21 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 04, 2017, 04:14:38 am

The most likely result of this would be some Northern Ireland type of occupation. Except Catalonia is much more populous than Northen Ireland (more populous than the entirety of Ireland for that matter), and Spain is militarily much weaker than Britain. And remember, Britain failed to hold onto Ireland despite being an undisputed world superpower at the time who didn't really have to deal with global media and popular opinion.

Interestingly, IRA forces were actually quite clever in their approach towards world opinion, because they knew that any unleashed British Army was more powerful than the IRA if not checked in as many ways as possible.  As such, Michael Collins and the IRA as a whole certainly tapped both international media (a truly global media not existing yet in a modern sense) and British popular opinion in order to open an entire second front, to the point where the Revolutionary Dáil included a Minister of Publicity (Robert Erskine Childers).  As such, the British certainly had to deal with popular opinion for dealing with Ireland as a whole, and the Irish certainly benefited from it in raising funds, materiel, and volunteers.  While the war of public opinion was still in its relative infancy in this era, the fact that the IRA was more than willing to publicize every British atrocity the British were obliging enough to provide played a considerable role in adding to quiet US pressure on the British to resolve the "Irish problem," as well as causing domestic fissures in the ruling coalition between pro-Home Rule Liberals and anti-Home Rule Tories.  The PR disasters that resulted as a consequence of the Black and Tans were quite considerable. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2017, 12:52:36 pm

I laughed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 01:10:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail
WAKE ME UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
CAN'T WAKE UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/me has been moved to Channel Fort 5 for seditious shitposting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 01:20:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 01:10:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail
WAKE ME UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
CAN'T WAKE UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/me has been moved to Channel Fort 5 for seditious shitposting

We have now reached DEFCOM Orwell. Deploy tinfoil hats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 04, 2017, 01:21:53 pm

Dutch patient organisation Inspire2Live is going to try to duplicate expensive cancer medication, and put it on the market for a fraction of the current price.
With this action, they are hoping to provoke a test case trial, when the patent owning pharmaceutical companies sue them.
"We want to provoke a test case, to make a judge decide what is more important: the right to health and healthcare, or patent right", says Peter Kapitein, driving force behind the initiative.

The plan is to either duplicate Nivolumab (used for treating lung cancer), or Olaparib (ovary cancer). Both medicine cost many tens of thousands of euros per patient per year. When first introduced, Nivolumab even cost 134 thousand euros per patient per year. Because of it's high price, it wasn't included in health insurance initially. "This has cost the lives of people", says Kapitein.

The counterfeit medication will cost about 1/10th of the patented drugs, according to Kapitein.
Inspire2Live emphasizes that it's action is not intended to annoy the pharmaceutical industry.
"It is the government we are aiming for. They give the patent holder a 15 year monopoly when they create a new drug. Those laws - that allow producers to ask any price they want for 15 years - has to change".

Inspire2Live has formed an alliance with Cinderella Therapeutics, a foundation that develops medication that is not commercially interesting.
"We have already forged Olaparib for an individual patient", says hemato-oncologist Haagenbeek, chairman of Cinderella Therapeutics. "Nivolumab is a bit harder, because it's a protein, but we will succeed in producing that too.

The ingredients will be obtained from India and China, according to the Inspire2Live website.

According to the official producer of Nivolumab, Bristol Myers Squibb, it won't be very easy to reproduce that drug. "We shall patiently await the developments", says the company's spokesman.

Arnold Versteeg, a lawyer from Amsterdam, specialized in healthcare says that "patent right is very strong. However, a test case trial shouldn't be dismissed as hopeless. The owner of a patent does have a legal obligation to take the consumer's rights into account. Especially with medication that can mean the difference between life and death".

https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/patientenorganisatie-hoopt-kankermedicatie-goedkoper-te-maken-door-te-kopieren~a4520113/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/patientenorganisatie-hoopt-kankermedicatie-goedkoper-te-maken-door-te-kopieren~a4520113/)

interesting, let's see how that plays out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 04, 2017, 01:26:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 01:10:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail)
WAKE ME UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
CAN'T WAKE UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/me has been moved to Channel Fort 5 for seditious shitposting

But then, what exactly is terrorist content? Does Boatmurdered classify too?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 01:29:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 04, 2017, 01:26:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 01:10:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail)
WAKE ME UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
CAN'T WAKE UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/me has been moved to Channel Fort 5 for seditious shitposting

But then, what exactly is terrorist content? Does Boatmurdered classify too?

Bay12 is a terrorist training website. Here we practice in the dankest memetic warfare techniques for when we must clash against the foes of the One Toad.

How will they even enforce this shit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 04, 2017, 01:37:22 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 04, 2017, 01:21:53 pm

Dutch patient organisation Inspire2Live is going to try to duplicate expensive cancer medication, and put it on the market for a fraction of the current price.
With this action, they are hoping to provoke a test case trial, when the patent owning pharmaceutical companies sue them.
"We want to provoke a test case, to make a judge decide what is more important: the right to health and healthcare, or patent right", says Peter Kapitein, driving force behind the initiative.

The plan is to either duplicate Nivolumab (used for treating lung cancer), or Olaparib (ovary cancer). Both medicine cost many tens of thousands of euros per patient per year. When first introduced, Nivolumab even cost 134 thousand euros per patient per year. Because of it's high price, it wasn't included in health insurance initially. "This has cost the lives of people", says Kapitein.

The counterfeit medication will cost about 1/10th of the patented drugs, according to Kapitein.
Inspire2Live emphasizes that it's action is not intended to annoy the pharmaceutical industry.
"It is the government we are aiming for. They give the patent holder a 15 year monopoly when they create a new drug. Those laws - that allow producers to ask any price they want for 15 years - has to change".

Inspire2Live has formed an alliance with Cinderella Therapeutics, a foundation that develops medication that is not commercially interesting.
"We have already forged Olaparib for an individual patient", says hemato-oncologist Haagenbeek, chairman of Cinderella Therapeutics. "Nivolumab is a bit harder, because it's a protein, but we will succeed in producing that too.

The ingredients will be obtained from India and China, according to the Inspire2Live website.

According to the official producer of Nivolumab, Bristol Myers Squibb, it won't be very easy to reproduce that drug. "We shall patiently await the developments", says the company's spokesman.

Arnold Versteeg, a lawyer from Amsterdam, specialized in healthcare says that "patent right is very strong. However, a test case trial shouldn't be dismissed as hopeless. The owner of a patent does have a legal obligation to take the consumer's rights into account. Especially with medication that can mean the difference between life and death".

https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/patientenorganisatie-hoopt-kankermedicatie-goedkoper-te-maken-door-te-kopieren~a4520113/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/patientenorganisatie-hoopt-kankermedicatie-goedkoper-te-maken-door-te-kopieren~a4520113/)

interesting, let's see how that plays out

Its a  bad idea.
First: India tried this already.  They're flooded with useless counterfeits. The fact that they are intending to emulate the indian system and actually  buy stuff from them is disencouraging.

Second: drugs do, in fact have expensive development costs. Maybe the pharma companies exaggerate those costs, and maybe the system requires a review. But simply doing away with patents is no solution

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on October 04, 2017, 01:39:04 pm

Quote from: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 01:29:54 pm

How will they even enforce this shit?

Obviously by selling off the NHS to pay for an anti-cyber-communist-terror-brigade completely composed of cyborgs whose blood has been replaced by breakfast tea, their skin by Union Jacks and who can only communicate by singing coded renditions of God Save the Queen in the voice of robocop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 04, 2017, 01:59:33 pm

Quote from: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 01:29:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 04, 2017, 01:26:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2017, 01:10:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail)
WAKE ME UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
CAN'T WAKE UP
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/me has been moved to Channel Fort 5 for seditious shitposting

But then, what exactly is terrorist content? Does Boatmurdered classify too?

Bay12 is a terrorist training website. Here we practice in the dankest memetic warfare techniques for when we must clash against the foes of the One Toad.

How will they even enforce this shit?

Hey man, we have a child raising tutorial somewhere around here involving essentially locking them in a room with dogs 'til they come of age.

I guess I have to be worried about the police meeting me off the plane when I go back to visit my family, huh?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on October 04, 2017, 07:07:16 pm

Simple. It'll be another thing in the future government's back pocket to smash people they don't like into the ground. Arbitrary enforcement does as much towards the government goals as anything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 04, 2017, 07:58:29 pm

On the other hand, if it means British members of /pol/ wind up getting a short, nasty visit from the SAS....well, there's always a silver lining.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 05, 2017, 02:51:00 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 04, 2017, 05:33:15 am

Sweet jesus it very much wont come to that. Once again, where are you getting your news?

This is not Civil War Mk II no matter how much some people here seem to be having wet dreams about that. This is a softer rehasal of what went on in the Basque Country in the 80s and 90s (in fact a Basque journalist quipped that this whole ordeal was like Stranger Things for Basque millennials: it kind of reminds us of our childhood).   I think at worst we're talking about the same kind of issues (eg: radicals relaunching Terra Lliure or something like that), smoldering violence for a few years, and then a settlement.  Hopefully it wont even come to that, and after a show of holding a kangaroo trial for the more visible heads of the referendum, both parties will skip the insanity of political violence and come to a settlement directly after a few months. The finance minister hinted as much, Europe is pressing in that direction, and it's what  JxSi really wants anyway (regardless of the rhetoric), so its the most likely outcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ETA_attacks

ETA attacks: 1969-2011.

Quote

2010

    February 17: A small bomb goes off in front of an employment institute office in Vitoria.[235]
    March 16: An officer of the French Police Nationale is killed in a shootout with ETA members in Dammarie-lès-Lys, near Paris.[236]
    April 12: 14 train stations around Guipuzcoa and Vizacya are attacked by groups of young independentists.[237]
    April 16: A small bomb exploded at an agency of Telefonica in Llodio. Groups linked to ETA were blamed.[238]
    May 9: Two small explosive devices explode in the home of a judge and a security guard in San Sebastián.
    June 23: ETA said it had planted four bombs to roads and railways in the city of Valencia. No bombs were found.[239]
    August: Violence spreads along the Basque Country after a series of coordinated kale borroka attacks. Several trash containers and a building are burnt in Ondarroa on August 7,[240] dozens of trash containers are burnt in the town of Zarautz on August 11 leaving two police officers injured,[240] a petrol bomb is thrown at a post office in Zalla on August 13,[241] two trucks working on a TAV-related project are burnt and destroyed in Andoain on August 16,[240] several trash containers are burnt in the cities of Azkoitia and Vitoria on August 17,[240] more trash containers are burnt in Vitoria on August 18,[242] eight trash containers and several cars are burnt in the city of Bilbao and petrol bombs are thrown in Amorebieta on August 20.[243] An explosive device went off in Bilbao on August 21.[244]
    September 16: A small bomb goes off in an industrial zone of Vitoria, causing damage but no injuries. It is believed to be a kale borroka attack, youth groups linked to ETA.[245]
    December 20: A commando of ETA hides about 7,000 smart cards and plastic supports format card, and seven specialized printers and several printing software in a business located in Bourg-de-Péage in France.[246]

Sorry but the ETA thing went on for many years with steady terrorist attacks. The thing is, it depends on Spain. If they send the army in and unilaterally crush the local government then you could well see an ETA like scenario taking place. If you take the head off a movement then you have nobody to stop the radicals doing what radicals do. Remember, Catalonia is much larger than the Basque country. That's 7 million people who could take it upon themselves to cause violence and push the Spanish out, which about triple the total size of the Basque community. But ETA only enjoyed popular support of 12% in ~1981 (https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/1021/How-the-militant-ETA-lost-support-among-Basques) at the peak of their rebellion, while the independence referendum in Catalonia had 90% yes votes. Even if you assume that all the "no" people just stayed home that day, then there are over 2 million people who risked Spanish police to cast that vote. And you can't see that any of them would be willing to fight for this?

So you're right. This isn't like Basque separatism: it's much bigger and more generally popular than that.

Spain just sent in the army to secure Catalonia (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862295/Catalonia-crisis-army-Spain-troops-Barcelona-Carles-Puigdemont) btw.

i'm not sure, but your assertion that a large chunk of your country threatening to split off, the government sending in police with truncheons injuring almost 1000 citizens, then deploying the army right before that region is due to declare secession. To be honest, the "all over in a couple of months" sounds like extreme wishful thinking. "All home by Christmas". We've heard that before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 05, 2017, 04:24:19 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 05, 2017, 02:51:00 am

Spain just sent in the army to secure Catalonia (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862295/Catalonia-crisis-army-Spain-troops-Barcelona-Carles-Puigdemont) btw.

i'm not sure, but your assertion that a large chunk of your country threatening to split off, the government sending in police with truncheons injuring almost 1000 citizens, then deploying the army right before that region is due to declare secession. To be honest, the "all over in a couple of months" sounds like extreme wishful thinking. "All home by Christmas". We've heard that before.

From what I've read and heard, the army units being sent were supply and logistics units meant to support the police stationed there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2017, 04:45:54 am

Yes, if you are able to it is proper strategy to establish supply and logistics before any combat breaks out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 05, 2017, 04:47:37 am

Reelya...I'm going to try to stay polite because your misrepresentation of thr situation and of where I stand is irking me

 I'm very aware of ETA. I'm Basque. That blurb you copypasted? That very much was my childhood. That is exactly what I meant with "smoldering violence for a few years and a negotiation later". That is why I am hoping against hope that cooler heads and international pressure prevail and both sides sit down to negotiate. I wouldn't wish the same on anyone.  Even so, that is not a civil war scenario.  This is something different altogether.  And I mentioned "Terra Lliure" specifically because Catalonia did have a separatist terrorism problem in the past already. Which you would know if you had kept reading instead of pasting at me a blurb about Basque terroris.

And btw not like it matters, but Catalonia is not "much larger" than Euskadi. Population wise its about twice as large.

BTW: one of the things that made me more nationalistic was how people in Castile (even nominally left wing) did not want a negotiated peace in the Basque country, they preferred to "keep going", even if it took decades of violence (violence that mostly affected the Basque Country), whereas even Basque nonnationalistic conservatives wanted for it to stop, the sooner the better. It made me feel that the goverment in Madrid didn't give  two flying fucks about what happened in the Basque Country... just as you apparently care more about some abstract guerrilla to politifap to, than the actual consequences of this. 
I don't want what happened to us to happen to Catalonia. I don't want Catalonian radicals getting exalted. I don't want OUR radicals getting exalted after the events in Catalonia either. Thst's why I very much want the EU, or the Vatican, or WHOEVER to sit down both parties and force a talk

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2017, 04:51:57 am

Basque in it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 05, 2017, 05:01:09 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 05, 2017, 04:47:37 am

BTW: one of the things that made me more nationalistic was how people in Castile (even nominally left wing) did not want a negotiated peace in the Basque country, they preferred to "keep going", even if it took decades of violence (violence that mostly affected the Basque Country), whereas even Basque nonnationalistic conservatives wanted for it to stop, the sooner the better. It made me feel that the goverment in Madrid didn't give  two flying fucks about what happened in the Basque Country... just as you apparently care more about some abstract guerrilla to politifap to, than the actual consequences of this. 
I don't want what happened to us to happen to Catalonia. I don't want Catalonian radicals getting exalted. I don't want OUR radicals getting exalted after the events in Catalonia either. Thst's why I very much want the EU, or the Vatican, or WHOEVER to sit down both parties and force a talk

You seem to be mistaken about one thing. What I've said is what I see as likely to happen based on the information that's been presented. Has nothing to do with what I "want" to happen. The locals have said they're going to declare independence with the next couple of days, the government started moving support troops into the area. It's not hard to see there's a clash coming. two sides, neither backing down and both with increasing rhetoric.

Is it a "wank" to assume the worst might happen and talk about that? Or is it just being pragmatic?

Quote

I don't want what happened to us to happen to Catalonia. I don't want Catalonian radicals getting exalted. I don't want OUR radicals getting exalted after the events in Catalonia either. Thst's why I very much want the EU, or the Vatican, or WHOEVER to sit down both parties and force a talk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

Quote

Appeal to consequences, also known as argumentum ad consequentiam (Latin for "argument to the consequences"), is an argument that concludes a hypothesis (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. This is based on an appeal to emotion and is a type of informal fallacy, since the desirability of a premise's consequence does not make the premise true.

^ This only weakens a logical argument to determine whether something is true or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 05, 2017, 05:05:52 am

A journalist quipped a couple of days ago than all this is "Stranger Things" for Basque millennials. Everything reminds us of our childhood :p


Btw: did I mention that the king (jr. Because we have two now) doubled down on the PP party line of "The Catalonians have it coming, go get em boyZ!"?
And I thought his father (who was basically a bland version of Robert Baratheon) was bad. Sweet jebus.
Edit: I should have remembered that after Robert Baratheon came Joffrey

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 07, 2017, 04:17:57 pm

I feel less and less able to give opinions on what´s going on because I feel more and more angry about the central goverment´s actions, what´s going on, the king´s speech, and the surprisingly high number of people in Castile and Andalusia that actually support what they´re doing to the Catalonians.  If anyone wonders why nationalism is on the rise in some regions, well, there you are.


Anyhow: I don´t actually know how many people here speak Spanish, but a satyrical Catalonian TV show made a very sharp and funny criticism of current events, so if you do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO2G8b5kE_w

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 07, 2017, 07:07:13 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 07, 2017, 04:17:57 pm

satyrical

Intriguing. Do elaborate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 07, 2017, 07:11:11 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 07, 2017, 07:07:13 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 07, 2017, 04:17:57 pm

satyrical

Intriguing. Do elaborate.

Best not, I'm sure tales of bestiality are against the rules.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 07, 2017, 07:12:06 pm

Quote from: hector13 on October 07, 2017, 07:11:11 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 07, 2017, 07:07:13 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 07, 2017, 04:17:57 pm

satyrical

Intriguing. Do elaborate.

Beast not, I'm sure tales of bestiality are against the rules.

FTFY.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 08, 2017, 04:34:34 pm

It's a satire of a Catalonian song called "El Muerto Vivo" ("The Living dead), about a guy who goes out on a drinking binge and is presumed dead, but shows up later at his own funeral.  In this version they sing about General Franco being presumed dead, but "showing up" metaphorically in contemporary Spanish politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on October 09, 2017, 09:21:44 am

Plot twist, though, that is actually where the term "satire" comes from. A satyr play, devilishly mischievious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 09, 2017, 12:34:33 pm

Nope. Satire comes from the Latin word 'satur', wich means 'full, miscellaneous', and is completely unrelated to the satyr from Greek mythology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 09, 2017, 01:07:52 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 09, 2017, 12:34:33 pm

Nope. Satire comes from the Latin word 'satur', wich means 'full, miscellaneous', and is completely unrelated to the satyr from Greek mythology.

But if you cheek the entry for satire you find this, interestingly enough:

Quote

In Roman Mythology there is a concept similar to satyrs, with goat-like features: the faun, being half-man, half-goat, who roamed the woods and mountains.[5] In myths they are often associated with pipe-playing. Greek-speaking Romans often used the Greek term saturos when referring to the Latin faunus, and eventually syncretized the two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 09, 2017, 01:09:28 pm

Which led to confusion, and angry faces from Saturnus worshippers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 09, 2017, 01:44:58 pm

Saturnus whorshippers are a bunch of bigots. Who cares what they think.
#punchaSaturnusworshipper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 02:35:30 pm

Ahaha jokes on you this isn’t the AmeriPol thread.

... or am I just being rubbish and the punch-a-[insert group you disagree with here] is also a thing in Europe too?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 09, 2017, 03:16:35 pm

Punching people you disagree with is a thing everywhere. Punching people you disagree with his been something happening far longer than not punching people you disagree with. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 03:40:44 pm

As a meme, I mean.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 09, 2017, 03:50:14 pm

Quote from: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 03:40:44 pm

As a meme, I mean.

As an internet meme? Probably as long as the internet has been around....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2017, 06:01:41 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 09, 2017, 03:50:14 pm

Quote from: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 03:40:44 pm

As a meme, I mean.

As an internet meme? Probably as long as the internet has been around....

Memes predate the internet. If you look at illuminated manuscript from medieval times you'll see many recurring themes in the illustrations. And I don't just mean saints and crosses and so on.

Spoiler: spoilered to not break cellphone browsers (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/3Ytj5A8.jpg)

You will find variations of the above in many, many of them. Snails are truly fearsome memetic beasts (http://blogs.bl.uk/digitisedmanuscripts/2013/09/knight-v-snail.html).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 09, 2017, 06:18:59 pm

Spoiler: click image to expand and view ancient memes (click to show/hide)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/926/744/93f.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 09, 2017, 06:32:51 pm

Hail Secundus, King of Pompeii.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 06:33:39 pm

Pfft, N64 isn’t shit. Best console evar!!!1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 09, 2017, 06:45:15 pm

For all our pretences, humanity never really changed. We're still a bunch of graffiti-scrawling jokers. The internet has brought us enlightenment by making the walls on which to scribble infinite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 09, 2017, 07:17:25 pm

there are lots of ancient jokes like that as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 12:15:03 pm

Puigdemont is speaking right now


....tbh he's making a compelling case for his position so far

He askes the parliament to put independence declaration  on hold for a couple of weeks in order to negotiate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 10, 2017, 01:36:14 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 12:15:03 pm

Puigdemont is speaking right now


....tbh he's making a compelling case for his position so far

He askes the parliament to put independence declaration  on hold for a couple of weeks in order to negotiate

must have realized if he actually did it he would be arrested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 02:34:47 pm

The talk is that he's trying a Slovenian solution& negotiation.

I'll admit that at an emotional level I was a bit disappointed that he didn't proclaim the Republic right away. He's echoed  many of my sentiments tbh. This is not about hating Spain, but the relationship between the central goverment and the different nationalities NEEDS to be redefined.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 10, 2017, 02:38:56 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 02:34:47 pm

The talk is that he's trying a Slovenian solution& negotiation.

I'll admit that at an emotional level I was a bit disappointed that he didn't proclaim the Republic right away. He's echoed  many of my sentiments tbh. This is not about hating Spain, but the relationship between the central goverment and the different nationalities NEEDS to be redefined.

What do you mean by 'Slovenian solution and negotiation'?

Quote from: Ispil on October 10, 2017, 02:36:00 pm

The real question: will Madrid care about anything he said?

^This.

Everything that I've read elsewhere and in here indicates that Madrid (or at least Rajoy specifically) has no desire to negotiate or compromise anything to address the Catalan complaints. At least publicly, no idea about behind the scenes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 02:50:46 pm

I hope international pressure will force him to talk.

Really. There HAS to be a negotiation. In any scenario. The only question is how many bad things will happen before that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 10, 2017, 03:01:29 pm

It'd definetly be in the EU's best interest for things to not come to blows, and the EU has been making moves to try and mediate or get involved. Whether that involvement ends up being the helpful type or not remains to be seen.

I think this is the first time the EU has had a situation like this with a member state. I know there was the Scottish referendum, but that was as peaceful as it can be and was allowed by the UK parliament, and a different relationship as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 04:14:03 pm

If it comes to blows we're talking about terrorism on one side and police repression in the other.  This has happened several times in the EU. So... not without precedent, no

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 10, 2017, 06:16:23 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 04:14:03 pm

If it comes to blows we're talking about terrorism on one side and police repression in the other.  This has happened several times in the EU. So... not without precedent, no

You mean like the Troubles in the UK? I meant this specific situation with the secession.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on October 10, 2017, 06:25:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 10, 2017, 06:16:23 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 10, 2017, 04:14:03 pm

If it comes to blows we're talking about terrorism on one side and police repression in the other.  This has happened several times in the EU. So... not without precedent, no

You mean like the Troubles in the UK? I meant this specific situation with the secession.

That too, but I bet he's referring to what happened in the Basque region--that didn't completely end until early this year, iirc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 02:32:22 am

I meant both.

Btw if two weeks ago you'd told me I'd watch a 15 min speech in Catalonian, I'd not have believed you :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 04:55:52 am

European press suggests EU mediation might be in the works (spanish) http://m.eldiario.es/zonacritica/europea-expresa-descarta-intervencion-UE_6_696140384.html

We'll see. The PP keeps trying to get support to pull out article 155 to abolish Catalonian autonomy. If that happens things will get ugly fast.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2017, 05:13:10 am

PP? Is that short for the party or like for the government-head like "Washington"/"White House"/"Kremlin"/"Brussels"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2017, 07:22:27 am

President of Parliament maybe? By which he means PM Rajoy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 11, 2017, 07:37:08 am

No, PP (Popular Party) is the main right-wing party in Spain, and the one of the prime minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2017, 07:40:52 am

Yeah, I looked that up after I had posted. Apologies for not coming back and editing the answer, I was lazy ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 08:49:31 am

Code: [Select]

Apparently the PSOE has pledged support to the PP in exchange for some future unspecified territorial reform.

It's going to happen  >:(  Clearly the only answer the central goverment and it's cronies  to the dialogue proposal of the Govern is repression and propaganda.

It's a very sad day, I'd say. Things are heading in a bad direction

Shameful for the EU too to ask for Puigdemont to hold the UDI to leave room for tallking and then not following it through  >:(  Even if they dont give any fucks for the Catalan people (they didn't and don't for the Greeks, so it's certainly in-character), surely they can see such a powder keg of a situation is not heading anywhere nice.

I kind of feel like I'm watching a railroad accident in slow motion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2017, 10:17:02 am

Territorial reform means removal of any Catalan autonomy and /or the destruction of the legal entity of Catalonia, I assume?

Also, what is that code field up there?

Also, I noticed avatar change ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 12:34:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 11, 2017, 10:17:02 am

Territorial reform means removal of any Catalan autonomy and /or the destruction of the legal entity of Catalonia, I assume?

It's a weasel word of the Socialist Party. They love throwing it around. See, they say they're going to reform Spain into a federal state.

They've been promising that for the last 30 years. It's a promise they like to throw around to try to scrap a few votes on the left. I stopped thinking they might actually mean it around 2005. Of note: since the death of General Franco, the PSOE (Spanish Socialist Party) has held the goverment six times, and they haven't lifted a finger in that direction. They're not particularily socialistic, either, for that matter.

Now, the big question is what do they mean with "territorial reform" right now. Four weeks ago I'd have told you that it was more of the same. The current leader of the PSOE overthrew his rival, among other things, by promising to turn to more leftist policies, give more weight to the party base, and by promising (once again) federalism as one of the party's goals. To date he hadn't fulfilled any of his promises, something that was disappointing, but not surprising (I'm beyond caring about the PSOE, really, at this point). More of the same, really, I thought.

But... after failing to criticise the goverment's violent policial response in Catalonia (moreover, supporting it), after pledging their loyalty to the PP's goverment... it kind of makes you wonder what he actually meant. 
The simple fact is, the Socialist Party is clearly in bed with the PP and with Ciudadanos (which for all practical intents and purposes is a whitewashed Falange). I fear for Catalonian autonomy, I fear for the Basque and Navarrese Statutes, and I fear any constitutional reform that this triunvirate will propose, for I kind of suspect the kind of bullshit they will propose.

Quote

Also, what is that code field up there?

Typo. Was writing on my cellphone

Quote

Also, I noticed avatar change

Yeah. I feel very bitter about what the central goverment is doing to the Catalonian people (which is... the same they were doing to us 20-30 years ago, really). And about how people in the Inner Plateau have cheered the Guardia Civil when it was sent to violently repress the Catalonian people, and cheered again once they did. And the general willingness to abuse and humiliate the Catalonians. I've had experiences in that regard, too (I think many people in the Basque Country have. TBH this wasnt completely unexpected, as political repression is kind of the go-to tool for those people, though I hoped against hope that, since we are in the 21st century and all European and all that there would be a negotiation and a peaceful compromise). Overall I feel a lot of kinship with the Catalans nowadays, and, conversely very little kinship with people who cheer at the Civil Guard beating older women for daring to dissent.

I also have been moved by how the Govern is sticking to it's plan despite a massive  offensive on the economical, judicial, and media fronts, from the most rancid sectors of Madrid's goverment. I'd really like them to succeed and proclaim the Fifth Catalonian Republic. I'll toast to that, I think.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 11, 2017, 02:40:49 pm

Eh, while I'm in favor of self-determination, independence would be terrible for Catalonia. Would severely damage their economy, since most major companies would leave the new country (even before independence!) to make sure they keep access to European market. EU wouldn't let them rejoin because Spain would veto it. With the loss of companies would bring a loss of jobs and a ballooning unemployment, and a brain drain from Catalonia into the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 11, 2017, 02:57:56 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 11, 2017, 02:40:49 pm

Eh, while I'm in favor of self-determination, independence would be terrible for Catalonia. Would severely damage their economy, since most major companies would leave the new country (even before independence!) to make sure they keep access to European market. EU wouldn't let them rejoin because Spain would veto it. With the loss of companies would bring a loss of jobs and a ballooning unemployment, and a brain drain from Catalonia into the EU.

If only there was something one could do to prevent transnational corporate bodies from draining the wealth out of your county to protect their own greed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederación_Nacional_del_Trabajo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 03:14:08 pm

Quote

Would severely damage their economy, since most major companies would leave the new country (even before independence!)

LOL. You think this was a coincidence? This was orchestrated by the goverment. It's part of the fear campaign.

Quote

EU wouldn't let them rejoin because Spain would veto it.

That says more about the EU and about Spain than about Catalonian nationalism.

And quite possibly pragmatism would triumph in the end, as far as the EU is concerned.

Quote

With the loss of companies would bring a loss of jobs and a ballooning unemployment

Possibly, but TBH if you want independence you have to take risks. These things are seldom without a cost.

Quote

ballooning unemployment, and a brain drain from Catalonia into the EU.

Both are already happening in Spain as a whole. So pretty much business as usual, no?

Anyhow, it's worth noting that the Catalonians originally wanted to negotiate their own status within Spain, and are still open to negotiation even after all that has happened in the last 7 years, and particularily the last three weeks. But the  central goverment has not only refused to offer any negotiation, but has increased the pressure on the Catalonian people and institutions.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 11, 2017, 02:57:56 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 11, 2017, 02:40:49 pm

Eh, while I'm in favor of self-determination, independence would be terrible for Catalonia. Would severely damage their economy, since most major companies would leave the new country (even before independence!) to make sure they keep access to European market. EU wouldn't let them rejoin because Spain would veto it. With the loss of companies would bring a loss of jobs and a ballooning unemployment, and a brain drain from Catalonia into the EU.

If only there was something one could do to prevent transnational corporate bodies from draining the wealth out of your county to protect their own greed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederación_Nacional_del_Trabajo)

I used to be a trade union rep with these other guys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Commissions). But I like the CNT. They have a lot of history, too :)

Plus, sometimes they do hilarious stunts. I recall once, I was walking through the street, and I saw them protest against the firing of a cashier in a shop. Basically  a guy with a megaphone was parading in front of the shop entrance with a huge drum (you know the type (https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/80089/80089,1196445235,37/stock-photo-marching-band-closeup-on-bass-drum-7416655.jpg)) and a megaphone, shouting that "SO AND SO HAS BEEN FIRED UNFAIRLY BY MANAGER SO AND SO! SHAME ON THIS SHOP! ORGANIZE AND PROTEST!"... and that sort of thing.  I suspect it was far more effective than one would think, if unconventional

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2017, 04:07:38 pm

I tried doing a flag thing but turns out I can't do anything in photoshop any more from disuse and now I'm sad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 04:26:48 pm

BTW: It's official. Goverment is triggering 155  >:( . Now the Govern has 8 days to retract from it's current position. If they don't then the goverment can ask the parliament mandate for whatever measures they see fit. Which they will get through C's and PSOE's support  >:( Edit: No. They have to ask the Senate. Which is theirs. They dont even need the PSOE. Not that the PSOE is refusing them.

Another PSOE leader (from the Catalonian branch, of all places) has come out supporting the party line and saying that this way they can get the PP to agree to do a new Constitution which will make everyone happy.

I wonder if he's really *that* stupid or, conversely, if he believes that everyone else is *that* stupid

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2017, 04:58:32 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 11, 2017, 02:40:49 pm

Eh, while I'm in favor of self-determination, independence would be terrible for Catalonia. Would severely damage their economy, since most major companies would leave the new country (even before independence!) to make sure they keep access to European market. EU wouldn't let them rejoin because Spain would veto it. With the loss of companies would bring a loss of jobs and a ballooning unemployment, and a brain drain from Catalonia into the EU.

tbh this focus on doing whatever suits the economy without regard for what benefits your people is what got yurop into these messes in the first place. Ends with a country whose economy is doing great for a minority of corporate beings and gobshite for its people. That said, Catalonia does not need independence to do so, and the Catalonian gov also say their preferred policy is autonomy and not independence, but frankly if the Catalonians are worried that independence will spook any companies they shouldn't be, because they're moving regardless of Catalonia being a nation-state or a nation. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41523250)
All in all as long as Catalonians are humble & patient I'm hopeful... I worry that brash moves will cause a federal bull to be quick on the charge.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 04:26:48 pm

BTW: It's official. Goverment is triggering 155  >:( . Now the Govern has 8 days to retract from it's current position. If they don't then the goverment can ask the parliament mandate for whatever measures they see fit. Which they will get through C's and PSOE's support  >:(
Another PSOE leader (from the Catalonian branch, of all places) has come out supporting the party line and saying that this way they can get the PP to agree to do a new Constitution which will make everyone happy.
I wonder if he's really *that* stupid or, conversely, if he believes that everyone else is *that* stupid

How many allies does Catalonia have

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 05:28:04 pm

*shrug*
reallistically?
They will likely have support in Parliament against article155 from Podemos (leftist party, 69 seats), the Basque Nationalist party (5 seats), EH Bildu (another Basque nationalist party, 2 seats). This is plus their own 17 seats combining CDC and ERC. Soo... at most 93 votes. Out of a total of 350. So certainly not enough to turn this around with voting against the Unholy Trinity of PP, PSOE, and Cs (really Cs has like 32 seats, so basically they're acting as mamporreros (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mamporrero) in this union. Doesnt keep them from pretending they're important)


Or you meant international support?  Noone that will lift a finger.  I mean, Donald Tusk and some other people certainly said that there should be a negotiation, but I don't really expect them to lift a finger. You know how these things work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2017, 06:18:39 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 05:28:04 pm

*shrug*
reallistically?
They will likely have support in Parliament against article155 from Podemos (leftist party, 69 seats), the Basque Nationalist party (5 seats), EH Bildu (another Basque nationalist party, 2 seats). This is plus their own 17 seats combining CDC and ERC. Soo... at most 93 votes. Out of a total of 350. So certainly not enough to turn this around with voting against the Unholy Trinity of PP, PSOE, and Cs (really Cs has like 32 seats, so basically they're acting as mamporreros (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mamporrero) in this union. Doesnt keep them from pretending they're important)


Or you meant international support?  Noone that will lift a finger.  I mean, Donald Tusk and some other people certainly said that there should be a negotiation, but I don't really expect them to lift a finger. You know how these things work.

Both domestic and international really, though sucks that Catalonia doesn't have much support at the federal level - even for negotiations? That said, despite Catalonia's small size they are pretty wealthy, and for all the EU's talk of diplomatically isolating a nascent Catalonia their hunger for european clay would be unlikely to leave a gap in the Mediterranean sea - so for cynical purposes they would seek to expand into an independent Catalonia. Imo an independent Catalonia should stay outta EU but that's up to Catalonians really to decide. Of note is the divide between Macedonia and Greece, with Macedonia being blocked by Greece over names. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Macedonia_to_NATO) So Spain could feasibly frustrate Catalonia's diplomatic efforts after a potential declaration of independence.

That said, if Catalonia put 2% of their GDP into defence they'd have $5.1B to arm themselves with, which would allow them to field a defence force somewhere in between Singapore and Qatar. With no naval base of their own and near all training facilities based in Spain outside of Catalonia, again Catalonia would be a bit stuffed there. But it wouldn't be impossible to turn all that around. (http://warisboring.com/if-catalonia-declares-independence-its-going-to-want-a-military/) Right now Catalonia probably shouldn't pursue independence simply because Spain has her quite literally surrounded, but surely a 15 year long plan would give Catalonia the strength needed to choose Madrid or Barcelona? At the very least, the strength needed to have a Madrid government hear their words. Overconfidence can kill, patience too, but the latter less likely to.

Also of note is I've been looking at the response from UK, France, Italy, USA & Russia, and it is looking absolutely not good for the most part. I reckon despite the governments' lack of any formal statements, much of the UK is sympathetic because of the way the Spanish government has treated Gibraltarians with the Guardia Civil, but the state itself is neutral. France opposes unilateral independence, (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/09/catalonia-independence-declaration-would-not-be-recognised-says-france) but what measures they would take in such an event where the Spanish military marched upon Catalonia is anyone's guess. Doubt it would be the same as Belgium though... Italy is opposed in all cases (http://tass.com/world/969947), concerned as they are with Lombard or Venetian separatist movements, and Russia appears to (https://www.rt.com/news/406367-spain-russia-catalonia-meddling/) be supporting both sides (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/2/catalonia-independence-vote-likely-influenced-by-r/). Which is very Russian. USA also in favour of Madrid, though not terribly committed.

On the bright side, most of those nations also oppose Madrid using excessive force. Could Catalonia endure, and most importantly, renegotiate its position and regain autonomy if subjected to direct rule of law within a politically divided society?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 11, 2017, 06:33:53 pm

A punctualization is in order here: Most likely autonomy proper wont be abolished de jure. 


What they will do instead is jail the Govern, and then dust off the Ley de Partidos (which was, ironically enough, passed in 2002 with the vote of Catalonian nationalists) which allows to ban any party that "reiteratedly acts against the established democratic order" (deligtfully ambiguous no?). And will thus proceed to ban Convergencia and Esquerra Republicana.  Afterwards, having wiped out the real opposition they'll hold a new regional election and try to get a stooge elected President.

Oddly enough the media has not mentioned this possibility so far. Seems they forgot that law exists.

Of course you could argue that doing that is trying to douse a fire with gasoline. You have a point, but this didnt stop them in the past.  Plus the alternative is to repeat the elections and NOT illegalize Catalonian nationalists. If they got 72 out of 135 seats last time, it's anyone's guess how many they'd get now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2017, 11:38:19 pm

Well, obviously Russia would be in favor because in Russia's view, it makes the West run around in circles looking like doofuses.

Trump has sorta pledged favor to Madrid (he said it when Rajoy visited), but he hasn't said much publicly about the situation, nor has Tillerson to my knowledge. I don't know what Trumps reaction would be to Spain sending in the tanks and military (besides the Guardia Civil, the military police, or is that the Spanish version of the national guard? actually, I think guardia civil translates into national guard) either, probably condemn it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 12, 2017, 01:52:36 am

The Guardia Civil is a police force on paper but it's organized on military lines and has access to heavy military equipment. I dont think they are analogous to the National Guard. They're a militarized police force.

They tend to be fairly unpleasant, but to be honest most police forces in Spain tend to be fairly unpleasant (the Mossos also have a reputation of being fairly unpleasant). Then again, the unpleasantness of the Civil Guard tends to spike in certain circumstances. Not so long ago being stopped at a control while having certain surnames from certain regions was worrying because you might get trouble just because. Then again, back then they were a frequent target of terrorist attacks. That sort of thing can sour your mood, I'm guessing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 12, 2017, 03:14:11 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2017, 06:18:39 pm

Both domestic and international really, though sucks that Catalonia doesn't have much support at the federal level - even for negotiations? That said, despite Catalonia's small size they are pretty wealthy, and for all the EU's talk of diplomatically isolating a nascent Catalonia their hunger for european clay would be unlikely to leave a gap in the Mediterranean sea - so for cynical purposes they would seek to expand into an independent Catalonia. Imo an independent Catalonia should stay outta EU but that's up to Catalonians really to decide. Of note is the divide between Macedonia and Greece, with Macedonia being blocked by Greece over names. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Macedonia_to_NATO) So Spain could feasibly frustrate Catalonia's diplomatic efforts after a potential declaration of independence.

That said, if Catalonia put 2% of their GDP into defence they'd have $5.1B to arm themselves with, which would allow them to field a defence force somewhere in between Singapore and Qatar. With no naval base of their own and near all training facilities based in Spain outside of Catalonia, again Catalonia would be a bit stuffed there. But it wouldn't be impossible to turn all that around. (http://warisboring.com/if-catalonia-declares-independence-its-going-to-want-a-military/) Right now Catalonia probably shouldn't pursue independence simply because Spain has her quite literally surrounded, but surely a 15 year long plan would give Catalonia the strength needed to choose Madrid or Barcelona? At the very least, the strength needed to have a Madrid government hear their words. Overconfidence can kill, patience too, but the latter less likely to.

Expension requires unanimous support in the Council, so Catalonia could be frozen out of the EU permanently as long as Spain wants to (if only to deter the Basques).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 12, 2017, 03:47:57 am

Which is ridiculous - not that it requires unanimous support, that is good, but that a people that is already in the EU suddenly would find themselves outside the EU simply because they leave the parent state. Despite, you know, having already paid to be in the EU so far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 12, 2017, 04:29:01 am

Quote from: scriver on October 12, 2017, 03:47:57 am

Which is ridiculous - not that it requires unanimous support, that is good, but that a people that is already in the EU suddenly would find themselves outside the EU simply because they leave the parent state. Despite, you know, having already paid to be in the EU so far.

Can't say I disagree with you there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 12, 2017, 06:13:30 am

See, the thing is that what the Catalans originally wanted (in 2006) was the same status as the Basque Country as far as devolved goverment is concerned. The reason they went through with this is that not only was the PP stonewalling them but they actually increased pressure over Catalonian institutions.

It's funny because back when I was a kid the state media was (mis)representing us as Afghanistan and the Catalonians as the "good", smart nationalists, and now it's the other way around (now the Basques are the "smart" ones and Catalonians are "dangerous rabble rousers").

Anyway, the thing is that the autonomy agreement for the Basque Country and additional disposition 1 of the Constitution recognize the right of self goverment of "foral provinces" (aka Biscay, Alava, Gipuzkoa and Navarre), and the eventual devolvement of pretty much all competences but borders and defense (&contributing to the common solidarity box for healthcare and such). The Basque Country is pretty far ahead with these devolvements, with Navarre lagging a bit behind, but all in all people are not quite as itchy about independence (or at least about independence "right now"). So I don't think at the moment they're as worried about us as they are about Catalonia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 12, 2017, 12:10:25 pm

So predictably enough no further calls from the EU for negotiation now that the situation is "fixed".  I kind of suspect the goverment has overstated how fixed things are.

We'll see. The Govern has been given until Friday to back down. If they do... the EU will have been right, although the question is far from solved. If not they just let go the best chance to defuse a very volatile situation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 13, 2017, 08:25:40 am

Meanwhile in Sweden, farmers are concerned about wild boars becoming a true plague in the north of the country.
Global warming has allowed the boars to spread their habitat further north over the past decades.
Hunters have mostly stopped hunting the boars, because the boars are too radioactive. Contrary to other local animals, the boars dig deep into the earth to find food, like underground mushrooms. Those still contain high concentrations of radioactive Cesium-137.
Even though the radiation is only minor, and you would have to eat a whole lot of boar to be affected, their radioactiveness still exceeds national food safety standards by nearly a factor 2. Hunters will not hunt them, for they can't sell the meat, and have to pay for the testing of the meat themselves.

The boar population in the north has risen from zero to 250 thousand in half a century, and they are responsible for a lot of damage to agriculture.

I think the Swedish government should consider subsidizing the hunters, at the very least for the costs of testing the meat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2017, 08:32:42 am

Lol, that would mean giving a fuck about the non-urban regions. And that won't happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 09:01:37 am

What's the radiation from? Contamination from Chernobyl? I know the West discovered something was up when in either Sweden or Norway, workers at nuclear plants were triggering radiation alarms on entering. So, obviously a plume of it reached Sweden at least.... and I just answered my own question.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2017, 09:32:44 am

Yeah, probably. Northern Sweden got hit hard by the windfall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 13, 2017, 09:47:12 am

Yeah, the contamination is still from the Chernobyl incident, over 30 years ago. The wind spread a big cloud of radioactive dust over the north of Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 13, 2017, 09:55:09 am

The good news is that in another 30 year the radiation will have dropped to acceptable because that is the half-life of cesium-137.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 13, 2017, 11:37:25 am

Quote from: Antioch on October 13, 2017, 09:55:09 am

The good news is that in another 30 year the radiation will have dropped to acceptable because that is the half-life of cesium-137.

I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy, at the bottom of some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided.
 Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plant life. Animals could be bred and slaughtered. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country, but I would guess that dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided.

As to how to decide who stays up or down...  a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross-section of necessary skills. Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on October 13, 2017, 12:08:24 pm

I say, they ought to increase the hunting quotas on boars nonetheless. If the meat is unsuitable, surely the pelts could be sufficiently sanitised for use and decoration?

Hunting as a sport is a growing activity again, and there is quite simply not enough game hunting teams to go around. Not to mention, one must start somewhere. Boars seem rather ideal as a supplement to deer and elk in the game-stockpile. I know that I would not turn down a boar-hunt.

If nothing else, it ought to be perfectly legal for a land-owner to shoot invasive boars playing at coal miners on their property.

(To air some of my prejudices again, I believe that one opposition towards broader boar hunting would be fielded primarily by city-dwellers, who see the cute, fuzzy, striped little piglets on the television, and will consider any hunting measures against them as a form of genocide. Perhaps if they migrate into the suburbs, and do their porcine magic on a couple of flower-beds, there will be a slight shift.)

Quote from: martinuzz on October 13, 2017, 09:47:12 am

Yeah, the contamination is still from the Chernobyl incident, over 30 years ago. The wind spread a big cloud of radioactive dust over the north of Sweden.

Amusing fact: the first sign in the Western world that something had gone quite awry in the Soviet Empire was when particles from Tjernobyl triggered radiation alerts at the Forsmark NPP, Sweden. After some brief panicking, it was discovered that the radio-active particles had arrived externally from the east.

It was not nearly as cataclysmic as it was feared, however. Quite managable, as far as severe atomic disasters are concerned. There might still be spots in the heavily affected areas where one would be well advised to not eat large amounts of mushrooms, provided they can catch any before they scatter and run.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 13, 2017, 12:35:59 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 13, 2017, 11:37:25 am

Quote from: Antioch on October 13, 2017, 09:55:09 am

The good news is that in another 30 year the radiation will have dropped to acceptable because that is the half-life of cesium-137.

I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy, at the bottom of some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided.

...

Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition.

"Please sign up for our nuclear bunkers. There are 999 of them and they are each devoted to some horribly unethical experiment perfectly safe! We promise we won't mistreat you, the government says so and will not be able to check up every once in a while after the apocalypse! We definitely don't promise to let you go after 180 days!"

-Vault-Tec

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 13, 2017, 01:24:50 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 13, 2017, 08:25:40 am

Meanwhile in Sweden, farmers are concerned about wild boars becoming a true plague in the north of the country.
Global warming has allowed the boars to spread their habitat further north over the past decades.
Hunters have mostly stopped hunting the boars, because the boars are too radioactive. Contrary to other local animals, the boars dig deep into the earth to find food, like underground mushrooms. Those still contain high concentrations of radioactive Cesium-137.
Even though the radiation is only minor, and you would have to eat a whole lot of boar to be affected, their radioactiveness still exceeds national food safety standards by nearly a factor 2. Hunters will not hunt them, for they can't sell the meat, and have to pay for the testing of the meat themselves.

The boar population in the north has risen from zero to 250 thousand in half a century, and they are responsible for a lot of damage to agriculture.

I think the Swedish government should consider subsidizing the hunters, at the very least for the costs of testing the meat.

Y'all are thinking about this all wrong. Think like a DF player -- i.e. "how can I weaponize this?"

I look forward to seeing Sweden's radioactive boar cavalry. Or their tanks firing glowing, angry boars.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 13, 2017, 01:27:34 pm

Sell the radioactive boar meat to americans, we won't be able to tell the difference. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 13, 2017, 02:55:38 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 13, 2017, 01:27:34 pm

Sell the radioactive boar meat to americans, we won't be able to tell the difference. :P

No, you just skip killing them yourselves and recruit Americans to hunt them. Then you make stylish hats out of their tusks and turn their skins to leather Boom profit!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Boar_tusk_helmet_from_Athens.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 13, 2017, 04:59:07 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 13, 2017, 01:27:34 pm

Sell the radioactive boar meat to americans, we won't be able to tell the difference. :P

They can use it for the USAs school lunch program. It will be a pleasant change from the goat anuses marinated in ammonia that is currently served.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 13, 2017, 05:01:01 pm

"Hey Americans! We'll let you use literally whatever guns you want if you'll come over here and use them to shoot boars!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 13, 2017, 05:34:21 pm

PETA will start a Boar Lives Matter campaign them.

Anyway it's easily solved, get guys like Anders Breivik and tell them that the boars are illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 05:50:14 pm

Or maybe introduce natural predators of the boars? *wink* *wink*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 13, 2017, 07:26:06 pm

It's gotta be something that's good in the cold and big enough to take boars down. How about release thousands of snow leopards?

This is going to end like that old lady who swallowed a fly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on October 13, 2017, 07:27:50 pm

I think humans are probably the best natural predators of boars. Maybe reduce safety standards and run promos and disinformation campaigns to poo poo the effects to radiation. It's even a self correcting balance system because the radiation will stop the humans from overpopulating.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 07:57:22 pm

I was making a slight joke in relation to importing a natural predator to control an invasive species. Climate change is tilting the definition of 'native species' though because some are going to expand their range into where they weren't native previously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on October 13, 2017, 08:09:19 pm

There are wolves. Of course, to them, sheep are much more preferable to boars and they are frequently poached. For you see, living close to the wilderness should not impact one's comforts at the least, no Sir! If anything slightly disagreeable comes your way, gun it down! Goodness me, they and the city-dwellers deserve each other...

Bears, further, seem unaccostumed to pork. Lynxes are too small. I say, Siberian tigers is an idea, but I do not think the Russians would be willing to share.

No, the apex predator on boar ought to be the common hunting rifle. Saves us all a lot of trouble.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 13, 2017, 09:12:20 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 07:57:22 pm

I was making a slight joke in relation to importing a natural predator to control an invasive species. Climate change is tilting the definition of 'native species' though because some are going to expand their range into where they weren't native previously.

I know, that's why I suggested "thousands of snow leopards". That's basically the entire world population of snow leopards, so they'd have to depopulate them from Asia and cram them into Sweden :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 14, 2017, 07:38:06 am

I have a snow leopard plushie. I'll be sure to draft it for the Boar War.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 08:49:13 am

When's the last time Ireland got hit by a hurricane? No, it's not the lineup to a joke, Ophelia could hit Ireland as a hurricane (technically, it'd be a post tropical storm), or maybe a post-tropical tropical storm. (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?cone#contents)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 14, 2017, 09:29:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 05:50:14 pm

Or maybe introduce natural predators of the boars? *wink* *wink*

While I suspect this was sarcasm, that's a terrible idea. My country has a problem with boars and pig-boar crossbreeds that ran away from farms or were abandoned. Fuckers are murdering the native wildlife, so the government decided to just let anyone who wants to just go out and hunt them. Introducing a predator would've just created a new problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 09:36:23 am

Quote from: Teneb on October 14, 2017, 09:29:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2017, 05:50:14 pm

Or maybe introduce natural predators of the boars? *wink* *wink*

While I suspect this was sarcasm, that's a terrible idea. My country has a problem with boars and pig-boar crossbreeds that ran away from farms or were abandoned. Fuckers are murdering the native wildlife, so the government decided to just let anyone who wants to just go out and hunt them. Introducing a predator would've just created a new problem.

In a sense it was sarcasm, yeah, and like I said earlier, it was a bit of a jab at how we deal with problems of invasive species sometimes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 14, 2017, 12:40:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 08:49:13 am

When's the last time Ireland got hit by a hurricane? No, it's not the lineup to a joke, Ophelia could hit Ireland as a hurricane (technically, it'd be a post tropical storm), or maybe a post-tropical tropical storm. (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?cone#contents)

Oh shit.  I dont get a break.  Flee from war torn spain and get hit by a hurricane

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 07:26:30 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 14, 2017, 12:40:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 08:49:13 am

When's the last time Ireland got hit by a hurricane? No, it's not the lineup to a joke, Ophelia could hit Ireland as a hurricane (technically, it'd be a post tropical storm), or maybe a post-tropical tropical storm. (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?cone#contents)

Oh shit.  I dont get a break.  Flee from war torn spain and get hit by a hurricane

War torn? lolwut.

Speaking of Spain... PM Rajoy (through the interior minister) has said that if Catalan leader Puidgemont (odd that his last name isn't Spanish or Catalan, just observing) still gives an ambigous answer by Monday, Rajoy will take control of the Catalonia region. (http://www.politico.eu/article/spain-control-catalonia-if-reply-on-independence-is-ambiguous/)

In the Reuters article (linked in the Politico article), it's mentioned that theres an article in the Spanish constitution that allows the PM to suspend a regions political autonomy if they break the law and sack the regional government and call for new elections. Which I suppose is what Rajoy would do. Remains to be seen how the Catalan people would react to that kind of thing, and no idea what would happen if most of the Catalan regional government and Puidgemont got re-elected since that is a non-zero possibility.

Also, EU president Junker (is he THE president or? Not sure how high up the rank ladder he goes) says that he doesn't support Catalan secession because he doesn't want other potential breakaways to follow and making an EU too complicated to govern. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41610863) While it's certainly a legit concern and the "EU made up of 90 countries" bit is definetly hyperbole, I don't think there are all that many separatist movements in Europe. Besides, I don't recall him complaining about Scotland doing an exit from Britian, though I guess it's a separate situation? Also, has he forgotten how many states are in the US?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 14, 2017, 07:33:07 pm

Scotland didn’t threaten to unilaterally declare independence though. Not a precedent you want to set, methinks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 07:50:19 pm

Yeah, good point, they didn't threaten anything. Even though the situation with Scotland and England is pretty different (Scotland is far more independent, for one), it's understandable to not want to set a precedent for allowing secession.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 14, 2017, 08:30:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 07:26:30 pm

odd that his last name isn't Spanish or Catalan, just observing

Still not the oddest name for an Iberian political leader, since at least Puigdemont is a local name to my knowledge: the list of past Spanish Prime Ministers includes an O'Donnell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopoldo_O%27Donnell,_1st_Duke_of_Tetuan) of the O'Donnells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Donnell_dynasty). :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 15, 2017, 03:07:45 am

Quote

War torn? lolwut.

I was mostly kidding about this one, in relation to previous comments about civil war.  The real reason I left is because working conditions for doctors are pretty bad in Spain right now (in my home region they're actually a bit better than in most other places, but still bad).
I'm earning about twice as much now, with saner work hours and longer contracts.  Plus social consideration is higher.


On the other hand I AM about to get hit by a hurricane.  That part was no joke

Quote

Catalan leader Puidgemont (odd that his last name isn't Spanish or Catalan, just observing)

Eeh, "Puigdemont" sounds very much Catalonian to me.  I've seen people with variants of the surname

Quote from: hector13 on October 14, 2017, 07:33:07 pm

Scotland didn’t threaten to unilaterally declare independence though. Not a precedent you want to set, methinks.

Quote from: hector13 on October 14, 2017, 07:33:07 pm

Scotland didn’t threaten to unilaterally declare independence though. Not a precedent you want to set, methinks.

Then again, the British goverment didnt stonewall Scottish requests for a referendum, and after the referendum they got an autonomy reform anyway.  The Catalonians got stonewalled with the autonomy reform to begin with

Quote

, EU president Junker (is he THE president or? Not sure how high up the rank ladder he goes) says that he doesn't support Catalan secession because he doesn't want other potential breakaways to follow and making an EU too complicated to govern

I kind of wonder... by this same rationale surely he supports the annexation of Luxembourg by, say for example, Germany, right?  I mean why does his city state get a pass and other, larger territories dont?  Catalonia has a higher population than Denmark

 For the record: Yeah, I know that he means that status quo is supreme, by the way (except when its convenient for his agenda, I'm guessing).  Its still a double standard in my book.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 15, 2017, 04:34:32 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 14, 2017, 07:26:30 pm

Puidgemont (odd that his last name isn't Spanish or Catalan, just observing)

Why is that odd?

Also, historically speaking, Catalan is closer to Occitan (the minority that covers most of southern France) than it is to Castilian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 15, 2017, 01:30:15 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/15/female-navy-officer-wore-captains-uniform-in-trident-submarine-sex-scandal-7001016/
ayy lmao
Took 3 years for a sex scandal to occur after putting mixed crews in a locked capsule under da sea. No discipline tbqh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 16, 2017, 01:59:44 am

Update:  Puigdemont replied to the goverment telling them he expectrd negotiation  during the next 2 months.  He did not clarify whether he had declared independence on a boolean manner, as the goverment demanded. So... they may or may not trigger 155. We'll see

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 16, 2017, 04:27:59 am

The hurricane hitting Ireland has caused a current of subtropical air to flow over the Western European countries.
Heat records are broken once again. Another couple of 'hottest days since temperature measurements began'. Temperatures over here in the Netherlands can reach 25C (77F), or about 30C (86F) in direct sunlight today. Normal temperatures for this time of year would be about 14C (57F).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 16, 2017, 04:47:40 am

Quote from: martinuzz on October 16, 2017, 04:27:59 am

The hurricane hitting Ireland has caused a current of subtropical air to flow over the Western European countries.
Heat records are broken once again. Another couple of 'hottest days since temperature measurements began'. Temperatures over here in the Netherlands can reach 25C (77F), or about 30C (86F) in direct sunlight today. Normal temperatures for this time of year would be about 14C (57F).

Praise be hurricane Ophelia, bringer of warm weather!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 16, 2017, 04:57:37 am

It's cold and rainy in Newcastle :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 05:12:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 15, 2017, 01:30:15 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/15/female-navy-officer-wore-captains-uniform-in-trident-submarine-sex-scandal-7001016/
ayy lmao
Took 3 years for a sex scandal to occur after putting mixed crews in a locked capsule under da sea. No discipline tbqh

Man the two top officers on that sub were both getting some with different female officers. Other officers snitched on them, probably jealousy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 16, 2017, 05:38:17 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 05:12:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 15, 2017, 01:30:15 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/15/female-navy-officer-wore-captains-uniform-in-trident-submarine-sex-scandal-7001016/
ayy lmao
Took 3 years for a sex scandal to occur after putting mixed crews in a locked capsule under da sea. No discipline tbqh

Man the two top officers on that sub were both getting some with different female officers. Other officers snitched on them, probably jealousy.

Or professionalism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 16, 2017, 06:30:51 am

Quote from: Antioch on October 16, 2017, 05:38:17 am

Or professionalism.

And people annoyed at a lack thereof

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 06:33:13 am

To be honest I think publishing big glossy photos of the girl in question is also pretty dubious professionalism from the media. It doesn't serve the public good, just cheap gossip.

And the UK rags are especially bad at exploiting every opportunity to show a pretty girl in their articles which screaming about how outraged they are about sexualization. I'm sure they had the big guns out scouring social media to try and find racy shots of her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 16, 2017, 06:33:40 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 05:12:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 15, 2017, 01:30:15 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/15/female-navy-officer-wore-captains-uniform-in-trident-submarine-sex-scandal-7001016/
ayy lmao
Took 3 years for a sex scandal to occur after putting mixed crews in a locked capsule under da sea. No discipline tbqh

Man the two top officers on that sub were both getting some with different female officers. Other officers snitched on them, probably jealousy.

Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs.
We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 16, 2017, 06:56:29 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 06:33:13 am

professionalism from the media

Ahahahahahahaha nice one

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 06:33:13 am

And the UK rags are especially bad at exploiting every opportunity to show a pretty girl in their articles which screaming about how outraged they are about sexualization.

The kinda UK rags that report on sex scandals aren't the ones outraged about sexualization, but otherwise yeah you're right it's controlled opposition. The tabloid gets the saucy headline while the urban paper gets the feminist headline, even if both are owned by the same company

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2017, 06:33:13 am

I'm sure they had the big guns out scouring social media to try and find racy shots of her.

Prolly just a malnourished troupe of interns followed by offers to buy anything from anyone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 16, 2017, 07:01:12 am

I'm very uneasy about publishing photos of people in general, except in special circumstances.

I might not have a perfect picture of how it's like abroad but I feel both English and American papers/tv are too quick to depict people. English tabloids of course being of an egregiousness all of their own.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 16, 2017, 07:16:07 am

Quote from: scriver on October 16, 2017, 07:01:12 am

I'm very uneasy about publishing photos of people in general, except in special circumstances.
I might not have a perfect picture of how it's like abroad but I feel both English and American papers/tv are too quick to depict people. English tabloids of course being of an egregiousness all of their own.

Nevar 4get, UK media hacked into people's phonelines, listened to their voicemails to get inside stories on people's personal lives, and even deleted their voicemails to keep their hacking secret

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 16, 2017, 03:54:02 pm

I'm half convinced that by now both the Spanish president and the Catalonian president kind of want to come to a compromise, but that in the current political climate they would both get fire from their own factions if they went for a handshake photo. It certainly seems that both are tiptoeing around actually triggering either Article 155 or the Independence declaration, and are trying to wind down the tension.

(if I may say... this comes 7 years fucking late, and 75% of the blame lies with the central goverment. If they hadn't spent the last decade stepping on the toes of... anyone not of their political persuasion, really, but especially historical nationalitities within Spain, and especially the Catalan people.... if they had actually sat down to talk 7 years ago when they threw back the reformed autonomy statutes, they might have avoided all this with far less effort)

(also, while on a rational level I know a compromise & increased autonomy closer to that of the Basque country are likely a more immediatedly practical solution, at an emotional level I'd like the Govern to declare a Republic)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2017, 04:02:02 pm

I thought Spain had a Prime Minister, not a President? Or rather, you do, but it's a ceremonial role and Rajoy is the Prime Minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 16, 2017, 04:23:46 pm

With the president I mean "the president of the goverment"/head of the goverment. AKA: what you would call the Prime Minister. Same office, different name.  There is no "ceremonial president"; we're stuck with a Bourbon as head of State. (For now, at least (http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RIAPPlpql8M/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAANvQ/1OAu-GMpzq4/s30-c/photo.jpg) )

EDIT:

BTW: I forgot to mention that a judge has decreed unconditional prison for two leaders of pro-independence organizations for... no good reason, really. She says they're going to prison to await judgement because they were movilizing people in the streets "in favor of independence".

IMO: The party in power in central goverment favors these kind of propaganda stunts. These are the kind of sentences that afterwards Strassbourgh tribunal throws away while forcing the Spanish goverment, but in the interim they keep someone who annoys them in prison and away from politics for a while. It's not the first time it happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 17, 2017, 08:47:25 am

This was posted in the Ameripol thread, but it more relevant here. Maltese journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41648940), which had been involved in a lot of journalism on the Maltese government and Maltese mafia. She effectively forced PM Muscat to trigger a early election last year when she revealed link between the PM's wife and a shell company cited in the Panama Papers.

Sad day when journalists get assassinated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 17, 2017, 12:28:23 pm

it keeps happening

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 17, 2017, 12:35:08 pm

Yeah :/
People don't just overdose on carbomb for no reason. Interestingly, it doesn't seem like it was the Maltese government that did it, given the investigations that BBC reports they started. That doesn't mean it wasn't some slightly lower-ranking official acting alone, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 18, 2017, 10:59:47 am

In other news, time for a refresher on why you should all buy Swedish meat and dairy:(https://www.lrf.se/imagevault/publishedmedia/19vdp763icbs7wxmtmw3/antibiotika.jpg)

The chart details how much mg antibiotica is sold per animal, corrected for animal population of each country (mg/PCU, Population Correction Unit". The chart is from a biased site (Swedish farming organisation) but the original data can ne found on the European Medicine Agency (http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/regulation/document_listing/document_listing_000302.jsp) (direct link to pdf here (http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Report/2017/10/WC500236750.pdf)), but they order their charts alphabetically and not from best to worst so and I wanted Sweden to be in front. Sorry for the shitty resolution, I blame internet unqualified farmers with tractors for fingers.

For reference, the top five on the charts are Sweden, Finland, Slovenia (unexpected?!), Luxembourg and Lithuania. The bottom worst are Belgium (gotta keep those Belgian Blue monstrosities crimes against nature alive somehow I guess), Hungary, Italy, Spain, and last but certainly not least Cyprus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2017, 11:08:53 am

How come Spain, Italy, and Cyprus are so freaking high on that? Climate in southern Europe maybe? Wouldn't explain Greece and Portugal though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 18, 2017, 11:12:55 am

I dunno man. For the record, when at home I tend to buy beef with Basque Denomination of Origin (Euskolabel) which is supposed to be of higher quality, but I dont really know.

Could conceivably be weather related I'm guessing, in so far southern Europe is concerned

I can also tell you that beef in Ireland is surprisingly good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 18, 2017, 11:16:33 am

I can only tell you why the Nordic countries (or rather, just Sweden I suppose) is so low: a culture of focusing on preventing injury and disease rather than just treating it once it happens.

Also less livestock industry, but let's ignore that and let me have this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 18, 2017, 11:19:57 am

Part of the reason is the mix of animal raised (intensive pig farming is an antibiotic hog). But still huge differences between practices.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2017, 11:20:45 am

Dang UK 1 short of top 10

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 18, 2017, 01:36:01 pm

Just needs a marketing spin on it.

"Buy Cypriot chicken! Not only good, but good for you! Pre-medicated!"

Quote from: Sheb on October 18, 2017, 11:19:57 am

pig farming is an antibiotic hog. 

What you did there, I see it.

Climate may have a lot to do with it -- warmer climates, more disease vectors. I can't imagine that Cyprus is awash in factory farms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 18, 2017, 03:06:41 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 18, 2017, 01:36:01 pm

Just needs a marketing spin on it.

"Buy Cypriot chicken! Not only good, but good for you! Pre-medicated!"

Quote from: Sheb on October 18, 2017, 11:19:57 am

pig farming is an antibiotic hog. 

What you did there, I see it.

Climate may have a lot to do with it -- warmer climates, more disease vectors. I can't imagine that Cyprus is awash in factory farms.

Why not? It's not like they have vast meadows for their critters to graze on. It's a pretty well-inhabited place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 18, 2017, 03:51:35 pm

Apparently they reached self-sufficiency in pork and poultry so that might be a factor. I wonder how those levels compare to US/OECD/rest of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 22, 2017, 04:43:37 am

Alfonso Dastis, Spanish foreign affairs minister, on the BBC: "it has been proven that those pictures are fake"  interviewer "so you're saying that those pictures of spanish police violently entering he polling stations are false?"
"..eeh no, I'm not saying that all of them are false... but many are!"

This is one of the standard PP goverment arguments to whatever is afflicting them.  Two years ago, about a corruption scheme, the president went on air to say "It's all a lie... barring some things".

As an addenum, at least the foreign minister can actually speak a foteign language.  That might be a first

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 22, 2017, 01:41:50 pm

"Catalonia finds no friends among EU leaders (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia-eu/catalonia-finds-no-friends-among-eu-leaders-idUSKBN1CO31E). Looks like they took the "forget Catalonia" (https://forgetcatalonia.eu/) video literally.

I kind of wonder what the Spanish goverment intends to achieve with article 155. Because... a couple of scenarios

A: They repeat elections in 3 to 6 months. Likely outcome: Nationalist supermajority

B: They repeat elections in 3 to 6 months AFTER banning ALL nationalist parties in Catalonia. Eeh... this one would get very ugly very soon. Unlikely to provide them with an electoral victory either.

C: They suspend Catalonian autonomy indefinitedly. They can do this because the PP has absolute majority in the Senate thanks to fucked up election laws. This scenario would get very ugly very soon as well.


My theory: at this point the PP doesn't give a shit about what happens in Catalonia, or whether everything goes down into a spiral of violence. They've managed to get the Socialist Party to support them with Catalonia. Now, it's actually convenient for them to take the PSOE into a fascist rollercoaster ride, because in the process they'll likely alienate a good chunk of their voters and they wont be a threat to the PP in general elections

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2017, 03:50:36 pm

Wew lads looks like the die are cast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 22, 2017, 04:49:40 pm

Yeah, I don't see a fresh election leading anywhere since to be absolutely sure that none of the current Catalonian politicians get re-elected, they'd have to bar all of them from running again and that'd just make people angry. Plus it wouldn't guarantee that the new Catalonian parliament would agree to not do independence.

The only way out of this that I see that wouldn't end in potential violence would be to have both sides calm down and (Madrid in particular) agree to negotiate and talk about things. However, they seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

Also, the Catalonian Parliament (and some newspapers) are calling the whole thing a coup, while the foriegn minister says that it's the Catalonians that pulled a coup. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41713190) It's a war of words atm.

Meanwhile, two Italian provinces Lombardy and Veneto (capitols are Milan and Venice respectively) are doing a non binding referendum asking for more autonomy. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41712263) Though the Northern League (sounds like the name of an actual alliance of Italian city states doesn't it?) wiki page says that they're for federalizing Italy rather than going more autonomous. Italian politics really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2017, 05:03:15 pm

The Empire long divided, must unite, long united, must divide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 22, 2017, 05:08:01 pm

Quote

The only way out of this that I see that wouldn't end in potential violence would be to have both sides calm down and (Madrid in particular) agree to negotiate and talk about things.

I hoped to this four weeks ago...

Quote

However, they seem to be headed in the opposite direction.

But this.

Madrid, that is, the Popular Party, simply refuse to negotiate anything at all. They've been pushing for this for ten years. Now they're kind of fapping at the possibility of ruining Catalonian autonomy. Some of their most moronic members actually mulled doing the same thing to other autonomous communities, including the Basque Country  and, oddly enough, Castilla la Mancha (aka: the half of Castile that is under the PSOE control). As if the Catalonian fiasco was not a volatile enough siutation by itself.

This situation is going to end badly. I dont know how they managed to get this whole fuckery going without even a parliament majority. Seriously, one would expect the PSOE, corrupt and ideologically hollow as it is, would have better sense than to join into this massive rain of crap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 22, 2017, 05:31:37 pm

Quote from: Ispil on October 22, 2017, 05:00:01 pm

So, this might very well encourage more European balkanization?

The Italian thing seems to just be Italian politics, and they're asking for more autonomy, not outright secession.

I looked at wiki and a lot of the movements are more for autonomous regions than outright independence/secession. Catalonia is the only one that seems to want to go that far atm, well, and the Basques. I really don't see it encouraging more European balkanization (other than perhaps the balkans themselves) since Spain is being a real ass about it in this situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 22, 2017, 05:38:36 pm

Fun fact:  Catalonians for the most part favored improved autonomy rather than secession. But ten years of PP buggering you and three weeks of outright political repression will erode anyone's patience

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 22, 2017, 06:36:16 pm

The Czech Republic elected their own version of Trump to PM this weekend. (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/22/europe-far-right-czech-election-nationalism-244031) The article (which is on the American portion of Politico for some reason) does go into stuff about warning about backsliding into the same policies that led to war in the first half of the 20th century. However, hopefully the cycle of wanting to invade each other etc is broken. I mean, look at France and England, they used to be mortal enemies, but the cycle of war was broken and now they're pretty much best buds even if they tease each other from time to time.

Also, Europe Politico article about Andrej Babis and the election results. (http://www.politico.eu/article/million-dollar-babis/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 22, 2017, 08:16:02 pm

I didn't read the entire article but that is a great headline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:21:32 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 22, 2017, 06:36:16 pm

However, hopefully the cycle of wanting to invade each other etc is broken. I mean, look at France and England, they used to be mortal enemies, but the cycle of war was broken and now they're pretty much best buds even if they tease each other from time to time.

Both the UK and France are nuclear nations & it's more important to examine the geopolitics than what people want, as what people want does not necessarily coincide with what will be done by people.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/4OF6Adi.png)

I made this thing to illustrate a point; the UK and France have not been at war since the Napoleonic wars, for they are neighbours separated by geographical barriers who have mutual interests shored up by the bonds of alliance. And luckily, our divergent interests are not cause for hostility. I would not use the UK-France alliance as proof that the cycle of war is broken, as the wheel is still turning. With our fingers crossed, the best we can aim for is that the wheel slows, then we can put it to a halt

Quote

The spate of recent terror attacks on European soil also played into the hands of right-wing agitators eager to connect the influx of migrants with Europeans' growing security concerns.

"IS please stop killing civilians, you're making the right wing stronger"

Quote

In Austria, meanwhile, there has been "a rise in share of [the] foreign-born population over the last 10 years," Rohac said. "Austrians will tell you they sort of fear becoming a minority in their own country, which is sort of silly. But the pace of change has been dramatic. … The hysteria over immigration is really unprecedented in this part of the world."

Ayy lmao stop being hysterical why we replace you (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world)

Spoiler: inb4 why won't they vote for us (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EwcfmEP.png)

Regarding Babis, I think that article indicates why Americans need to sort out their god awful piece of shit media. If it's not references to Harry Potter and Star Wars to explain politics it's everything is Trump, not even trying to empathize with a non-American viewpoint D:

Anyways LW take on Czech election results:
Czech Republic is not irrelevant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/JIdsVbn.png)

Especially since it now solidifies a growing trend of the Visegrad group turning its eyes away from Berlin, and broadly all agreeing with one another on stricter border controls with Berlin & distance from Brussels.

What are ANO:
They're centrist liberals.
The media hype doesn't really live up to them. They're soft Eurosceptics, in that they don't want to set a fixed date for adopting the Euro for example, but the way the media covered them you'd think they'd be setting an independence date - nothing as exciting of the sort unfortunately, they're pretty mild in their convictions. This is aligned with much of the Visegrad Group's actions; try to eat from the EU and leave the shit, in as much capacity as humanly possible. Because Eastern Europe is yuropoor. Notable for having won in on populist grounds; holding politicians accountable for their wealth and "donations," corruption, transparency and so on. Hell, ANO aren't even opposed to adopting the Euro, they're just opposed to setting a fixed date. That barely even qualifies as eurosceptic in my book ffs, yet the media chalks up a hesitancy to run full swing into Merkel's playground as revolution.
ODS are conservatives (though they like to market themselves as liberal conservatives), who are again soft eurosceptics, but differ from ANO in that they're much more vocal in their opposition of EU policy. They oppose a federalized Europe and fully intend to frustrate attempts at integrating the Czech further into the EU, but otherwise do not seek repatriation of sovereignty or independence.
The Pirate Party imo are the coolest party to upset the traditional political stage and they get next to nil coverage, which is a shame, as they went from having no seats to having 10% of the votes. As the name suggests, they're all about protecting civil liberties, being anti-corruption and reforming copyright laws. But no one talks about them? Why? Obviously because the old establishment don't want the pirate parties to spread ;]

Also interestingly, within the EU the Czech Republic had one consistent ally: And that was the UK. Largely along the same lines of both countries wanting to be members of a free trade area, not a political hegemony, but since 2014 Babis had been moving the Czech from aligning with UK to Germany (http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-czech/czech-finance-minister-open-to-euro-adoption-but-consolidation-a-priority-idUKBREA2A1KJ20140311), thus it's quite apparent any Czech eurosceptics who actually voted for him are going to get further EU integration, not status quo or less.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 23, 2017, 05:52:49 pm

European ministers of labour and social affairs have reached an agreement, after long and hard negotiations.
From 2021 onwards, EU workers taking a job in another EU country will have to be paid the same wages, and get the same benefits (like holidays, and social security benefits) as set for native workers, instead of just minimum wage.

About 2 million EU citizens work in another country than their own. Even though this is just a very small percentage of the total EU labour pool (0,7%), it has been a cause of great social and political tensions in the Western member states, with complaints about unfair competition, negative influence on wage development, and housing shortages in cities that need to shelter lots of foreign EU workers.

There's still a loophole in the new agreement though; Employers get a 1 year leniency period (extendable to 18 months in special circumstances), in which they can still pay their 'temporary' workers minimum wage.

The transport sector is excluded from the agreement, for this sector an agreement will be negotiated later.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/poolse-bouwvakker-krijgt-vanaf-2021-dezelfde-beloning-als-nederlandse-collega~a4523179/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 05:58:18 pm

EU common wage? What a spicy idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 23, 2017, 06:00:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 05:58:18 pm

EU common wage?

Well not really. A guy from Poland would still get a crappy wage in Poland, but he'd get paid Dutch wages when working in the Netherlands, instead of being 50% cheaper than a Dutch worker.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 06:20:19 pm

That's like an EU-wide common wage pegged to local cost of living, roughly corresponding to the US States' minimum wages which also differ considerably owing to the very different economic situations of the various regions. A great step forward, in my opinion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 23, 2017, 06:43:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 23, 2017, 05:52:49 pm

From 2021 onwards, EU workers taking a job in another EU country will have to be paid the same wages, and get the same benefits (like holidays, and social security benefits) as set for native workers, instead of just minimum wage.

Which is great for countries that don't have a minimum wage but instead relies on powerful unions for workers to argue their worth, such as Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns. That's ok between different nations but less efficient when it's within a nation such as the USA. Should people in New York be paid more because the cost of living is higher or should they be encouraged to migrate to places with lower cost of living?  There should be some leeway in the minimum wages however the goal should be that they're moved towards parity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 07:14:05 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns.

Why optimize purely for economic efficiency though? I'd consider allowing people to keep living where they grew up a good thing in and of itself. What you're suggesting is actually incredibly neoliberal: Something as fundamental as a person's surroundings, their family, their friends, all that should be subjugated to market forces.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 23, 2017, 07:17:56 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 07:14:05 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns.

Why optimize purely for economic efficiency though? I'd consider allowing people to keep living where they grew up a good thing in and of itself. What you're suggesting is actually incredibly neoliberal: Something as fundamental as a person's surroundings, their family, their friends, all that should be subjugated to market forces.

+100000000

We've created cities no one can afford to live in, but that's where all the jobs are. Hence, urban sprawl and people having two-hour commutes (because fuck mass transit, right?). Oh, the rich can afford to live there in their mixed-use condos where they don't even need a car anymore. Meanwhile their housekeeper has to live a country or two away and spend a fifth of her paycheck on gas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 07:45:29 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 07:14:05 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns.

Why optimize purely for economic efficiency though? I'd consider allowing people to keep living where they grew up a good thing in and of itself. What you're suggesting is actually incredibly neoliberal: Something as fundamental as a person's surroundings, their family, their friends, all that should be subjugated to market forces.

Actually, that sounds more like a Republican thing than neo-liberal, all of that should be subject to free market forces.

Quote from: RedKing on October 23, 2017, 07:17:56 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 07:14:05 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns.

Why optimize purely for economic efficiency though? I'd consider allowing people to keep living where they grew up a good thing in and of itself. What you're suggesting is actually incredibly neoliberal: Something as fundamental as a person's surroundings, their family, their friends, all that should be subjugated to market forces.

+100000000

We've created cities no one can afford to live in, but that's where all the jobs are. Hence, urban sprawl and people having two-hour commutes (because fuck mass transit, right?). Oh, the rich can afford to live there in their mixed-use condos where they don't even need a car anymore. Meanwhile their housekeeper has to live a country or two away and spend a fifth of her paycheck on gas.

Yep, whether you want to blame things on liberal policies or not, the problems that we need to fix are universial no matter your political leanings.

The problems aren't exactly new either, these problems have been around since, well, the first cities started getting built. It's just much more pronounced now because things are so concentrated in cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on October 23, 2017, 07:49:13 pm

Helgo means neoliberal in the European sense, which is in terms of economic policy similar to mainstream Republicans in the us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 07:55:23 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on October 23, 2017, 07:49:13 pm

Helgo means neoliberal in the European sense, which is in terms of economic policy similar to mainstream Republicans in the us.

Closer to Democrats, formerly Republicans - but the Neocons in the Republican party have been usurped, where the Neoliberals in the Democrat have not

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:00:13 pm

If your conservatives are called liberals in Europe, are liberals called conservative? Because calling conservatives neoliberal is twisting the ideological spectrum into a pretzel.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 07:55:23 pm

Quote from: Wolfhunter107 on October 23, 2017, 07:49:13 pm

Helgo means neoliberal in the European sense, which is in terms of economic policy similar to mainstream Republicans in the us.

Closer to Democrats, formerly Republicans - but the Neocons in the Republican party have been usurped, where the Neoliberals in the Democrat have not

Neoliberalism is getting pushed out though, or rather they're kind of floundering about trying to figure out how to fix the situation that neoliberalism itself has created.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:10:07 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:00:13 pm

If your conservatives are called liberals in Europe, are liberals called conservative? Because calling conservatives neoliberal is twisting the ideological spectrum into a pretzel.

Many things are called many things in Europe, Europe is an assortment of countries each with their own naming conventions based upon their own histories. You're dealing with countries that fought on different sides of the Enlightenment, on different sides of the Liberal Revolutions, on different sides of the Communist Revolutions, on different ideological sides of the Second World War and Cold War etc., naturally there is no consistent naming convention. It is best to look at them on a case by case basis.

Also the parties themselves can be split into factions that rise and fall in ascendancy from time to time. For example in the UK, our Conservatives went from being Conservatives to Neoliberals then Conservatives again. In that same time our Labour party went from Socialist to Neoliberal to Socialist again. In countries like Italy, Liberal and Conservative can be interchangeable, while in Germany Merkel's CDU would describe itself as Liberal-Conservative. It is important to stress that every country's liberal or conservative or neoliberal in Europe may have a different definition and yuropoors are not trying to be confusing on purpose

Quote from: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:00:13 pm

Neoliberalism is getting pushed out though, or rather they're kind of floundering about trying to figure out how to fix the situation that neoliberalism itself has created.

Best of luck, who's pushing them out tho?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:18:04 pm

I was being a little bit facetus (if that's the right word) and poking fun a little.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:10:07 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:00:13 pm

Neoliberalism is getting pushed out though, or rather they're kind of floundering about trying to figure out how to fix the situation that neoliberalism itself has created.

Best of luck, who's pushing them out tho?

Anybody not a clintonite and/or establishment? It's kind of 'that which has no name yet'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:30:40 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:18:04 pm

I was being a little bit facetus (if that's the right word) and poking fun a little.

Sorry I was just being apologetic because European politics is often times incomprehensible by design

Quote from: smjjames on October 23, 2017, 08:18:04 pm

Anybody not a clintonite and/or establishment? It's kind of 'that which has no name yet'.

Ah, write the story and the name'll follow

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 24, 2017, 02:56:50 am

Quote from: martinuzz on October 23, 2017, 05:52:49 pm

European ministers of labour and social affairs have reached an agreement, after long and hard negotiations.
From 2021 onwards, EU workers taking a job in another EU country will have to be paid the same wages, and get the same benefits (like holidays, and social security benefits) as set for native workers, instead of just minimum wage.

About 2 million EU citizens work in another country than their own. Even though this is just a very small percentage of the total EU labour pool (0,7%), it has been a cause of great social and political tensions in the Western member states, with complaints about unfair competition, negative influence on wage development, and housing shortages in cities that need to shelter lots of foreign EU workers.

There's still a loophole in the new agreement though; Employers get a 1 year leniency period (extendable to 18 months in special circumstances), in which they can still pay their 'temporary' workers minimum wage.

The transport sector is excluded from the agreement, for this sector an agreement will be negotiated later.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/poolse-bouwvakker-krijgt-vanaf-2021-dezelfde-beloning-als-nederlandse-collega~a4523179/

Anyone know how that works with benefits? Do they pay social contribution to their host country? Because I'm fairly certain they aren't eligible for stuff like unemployment insurance in their host country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 24, 2017, 08:47:34 am

Quote from: RedKing on October 23, 2017, 07:17:56 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 23, 2017, 07:14:05 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 23, 2017, 06:44:13 pm

The one flaw with regional cost of living adjusted minimum wage is that it discourages people from the most efficient economic migration patterns.

Why optimize purely for economic efficiency though? I'd consider allowing people to keep living where they grew up a good thing in and of itself. What you're suggesting is actually incredibly neoliberal: Something as fundamental as a person's surroundings, their family, their friends, all that should be subjugated to market forces.

+100000000

We've created cities no one can afford to live in, but that's where all the jobs are. Hence, urban sprawl and people having two-hour commutes (because fuck mass transit, right?). Oh, the rich can afford to live there in their mixed-use condos where they don't even need a car anymore. Meanwhile their housekeeper has to live a country or two away and spend a fifth of her paycheck on gas.

I'm suggesting that that is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's the same as paying half of people's rent is "nice" in the short term but just means in the long term that the market adds however much the government is willing to subsidize rents to the price. Sure, in that situation you can argue "oh no don't take away the rent subsidies" and of course ... nobody wants that, so it won't happen. But in the long term it's a major driver of rent prices. The total market price will rise by the exact amount that the government pays in subsidies.

For the minimum wage thing I was actually arguing that allowing poor states to undercut federal minimum wage because they're poor is a driver of the region staying poor. Because with low wages, the money doesn't stay in the economy.

Also, the added minimum wage won't even be a major driver of business costs. It'll still be way cheaper to set up a factory in Alabama if they have to pay federal minimum wage instead of $2 an hour less or whatever. It just means more money stays in the local economy. And that might mean in the long run that people might not have to go to the city to get those good jobs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 10:17:50 am

Quote from: greatorder on October 24, 2017, 08:45:31 am

Liberalism is pushing for reform, conservatism is about putting on the brakes, stopping it altogether or reversing changes, in essence maintaining status quo.

That's... That's not it at all. In what world do you live in? Liberalism in the modern world is all about making sure rich people get richer and removing social security systems which keep the masses from being dirt poor (because rich people are individuals and poor people are faceless masses).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 24, 2017, 10:21:40 am

That's the european definition, economic liberalism. In the USA it means pro-welfare state / pro social liberalization people.

Liberals in America are all about expanding social security and healthcare access (e.g. Obama massively expanded Medicaid, which is a universal healthcare provider, while Clinton was promising universal government-provided paid maternity leave). Conservatives are all about removing that stuff (Trump winding back Medicaid access for instance).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 10:27:38 am

The worldly definition, as far as I'm aware it's only the Americans that differ in that point.. And regardless, this is the European politics thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 24, 2017, 10:43:09 am

The point is if you stick to "well you don't make sense according to my definitions" then you're not seeing the argument that the person is making that's wrapped up in the language. That's kind of the point in these situations. It's important to realize that if you critique someone's choice of words it's not the same as critiquing the ideas that they're trying to express. Too many times people "debunk" some entirely superficial semantics then act like they've made an argument against the ideas that the person was - usually perfectly obvious to anyone who tries to listen - actually making.

I think it was fairly obvious that greatorder was talking about social liberalism vs social conservatism. Even europe has this concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism#Origins

Quote

In the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century, a group of British thinkers known as the New Liberals made a case against laissez-faire classical liberalism and argued in favor of state intervention in social, economic and cultural life. What they proposed is now called social liberalism.
...
One of the first German authors to propose the term and concept of "social liberalism" (Sozialliberalismus) was the historian and economist Ignaz Jastrow. He published the manifesto "Social-liberal": Tasks for Liberalism in Prussia" ("Sozialliberal": die Aufgaben des Liberalismus in Preußen) in 1893.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 11:50:53 am

Firstly, I don't think that was clear at all from the context of the discussion ("what is liberalism in Europe?") but I'd rather not argue about greatorser did or did not mean above his head when it could simply be settled by letting him speak for himself.

Secobdly, you are really going overboard with the whole "discuss actual points, not semantics" schtick considering the actual discussion that was being had was a semantic discussion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 12:09:43 pm

I'm with scriver on this. We Yanks are the odd ones out on our political discourse terms (see: Liberal Party in Australia, Canada, etc.), and being that this is the Euro thread, commentary should abide by Euro conventions.

That said, liberalism in the European sense did start as pushing for reform (greater economic freedom, abolition/curtailment of the monarchy, etc.) but once it reached its goals, it's didn't continue to inherently push for reform. Now it's more of a status quo ideology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 24, 2017, 12:48:51 pm

I suggest we invade Ameripol Thread and impose our definitions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 24, 2017, 12:51:40 pm

Transatlantic Semantic Battle. Sounds like a good name for a rap competition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 24, 2017, 01:18:33 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 23, 2017, 05:52:49 pm

There's still a loophole in the new agreement though; Employers get a 1 year leniency period (extendable to 18 months in special circumstances), in which they can still pay their 'temporary' workers minimum wage.

So... was it put there and nobody noticed, or was it intentional in the hope of getting it shot down or to fan up support back home?

I mean, what's the point if you can just fire and rehire every year?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 24, 2017, 01:57:04 pm

It's to appease the Czech Republic, who demanded a 24 month leniency period, or they'd Czexit.

In many countries though, there are already laws in place that forbid firing and rehiring within a certain timeframe, so it's not an infinite loophole.
For example, over here, a company can only give someone a flex (temporary) contract for a maximum of (I believe it is) 2 years. After that, they have to offer a permanent contract, or fire. Also, if a temporary contract ends, there is a 6 month cooldown before the company can offer another temporary contract to the same employee.

That doesn't mean they can't fire one worker, and rehire another, although I believe there's legislation under construction to tackle that issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 01:59:56 pm

How come they wanted a 24 month leniency period?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 24, 2017, 02:02:43 pm

So they can keep sending cheap workers to work for 2 years (and send money back home). It's not a leniency until the new agreement is enacted, it's a leniency forever enshrined in the agreement.

There also is a 4 or 5 year transition period before the new agreement is enacted  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 02:26:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:21:32 am

Quote

In Austria, meanwhile, there has been "a rise in share of [the] foreign-born population over the last 10 years," Rohac said. "Austrians will tell you they sort of fear becoming a minority in their own country, which is sort of silly. But the pace of change has been dramatic. … The hysteria over immigration is really unprecedented in this part of the world."

Ayy lmao stop being hysterical why we replace you (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world)

Spoiler: inb4 why won't they vote for us (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EwcfmEP.png)

This makes me sick to my stomach. If some other part of the world was being replaced by whites (for example, if South Africa had a higher growth rate among whites than blacks) people would be screaming racism and genocide.

Also, I'm surprised at the lack of discussion regarding the Austrian election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 24, 2017, 02:31:37 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 02:26:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:21:32 am

Quote

In Austria, meanwhile, there has been "a rise in share of [the] foreign-born population over the last 10 years," Rohac said. "Austrians will tell you they sort of fear becoming a minority in their own country, which is sort of silly. But the pace of change has been dramatic. … The hysteria over immigration is really unprecedented in this part of the world."

Ayy lmao stop being hysterical why we replace you (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world)

Spoiler: inb4 why won't they vote for us (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EwcfmEP.png)

This makes me sick to my stomach. If some other part of the world was being replaced by whites (for example, if South Africa had a higher growth rate among whites than blacks) people would be screaming racism and genocide.

I seriously dispute that, especially if it was just due to demographic reason (aka, no discrimination against an ethnic group, no one being killed). Hell, people don't even call it genocide in Tibet, where you have clear discriminationa gainst Tibetans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 02:45:03 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 02:26:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 23, 2017, 08:21:32 am

Quote

In Austria, meanwhile, there has been "a rise in share of [the] foreign-born population over the last 10 years," Rohac said. "Austrians will tell you they sort of fear becoming a minority in their own country, which is sort of silly. But the pace of change has been dramatic. … The hysteria over immigration is really unprecedented in this part of the world."

Ayy lmao stop being hysterical why we replace you (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world)

Spoiler: inb4 why won't they vote for us (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EwcfmEP.png)

This makes me sick to my stomach. If some other part of the world was being replaced by whites (for example, if South Africa had a higher growth rate among whites than blacks) people would be screaming racism and genocide.

Also, I'm surprised at the lack of discussion regarding the Austrian election.

Sounds like the UN trying to push an agenda. Also, replace Austria in that quote with America/Americans and you have the same sort of fear of becoming a demographic minority among some.

Also, genocide has a very specific definition. Seems more a fear of 'cultural genocide' rather than 'ethnic genocide' because people are just scared of change.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:00:10 pm

Meh. I just picture a German seeing one too many Doner kebab stands and screaming that they're being genocided.
Delicious, juicy genocide.

And as smjjames said, there's a lot of whitey angst over here about the "browning" of America.

I'm sure the Celts said the same thing about the Romans. Then the Romano-Celts said the same thing about these fucking Saxons. And then the Saxons said it about the Normans. And now their 25xgreat-grand kids are saying it about people from, y'know, all those places they conquered.

Cultures change. It's what they do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 04:08:51 pm

Fatalism helps no one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 04:18:08 pm

I'm sure the Native Americans said the same about Europeans too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 pm

I'm not sure how that's fatalistic, unless you abhor the thought of change.

About the only extant culture which even existed more than 1000 years ago are the Chinese, and even there Han culture has undergone enormous change and imported ideas (and DNA) from numerous outside populations.

@scriver: Uh...think that's a misquote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 04:26:51 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 pm

About the only extant culture which even existed more than 1000 years ago are the Chinese, and even there Han culture has undergone enormous change and imported ideas (and DNA) from numerous outside populations.

*most of Africa screams for correction, as do just about every indengenous tribe, even if they may not have been in the area they currently are for the last 1000 years*

Japanese as well, and you might say the Hindu culture. Those are just the ones which remained in one area and remained dominant over a large region.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 04:30:11 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 pm

I'm not sure how that's fatalistic, unless you abhor the thought of change.

Some change is better than others. Change for change's sake is dangerous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 04:36:57 pm

If they're so afraid of losing culture, then they should promote culture, like "It's awesome to be <insert country name>!", it's called cultural acclimation and absorption. It's what the Romans did, except they did it more forcefully and partially through the awe of civilization.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 04:55:47 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 pm

@scriver: Uh...think that's a misquote.

Lol, yeah. That was a part from Reelyas earlier post that he removed before I could post that was still in my clipboard. At least it wasn't a link to a porno or something.

Not that I would ever watch such a thing of course! *shifty eyes*

Quote from: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:20:39 pm

About the only extant culture which even existed more than 1000 years ago are the Chinese, and even there Han culture has undergone enormous change and imported ideas (and DNA) from numerous outside populations.

No. There's absolutely no way you could reason Han culture would have existed 1000 years ago that wouldn't also mean 98% of all cultures also existed 1000 years ago.

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 04:36:57 pm

If they're so afraid of losing culture, then they should promote culture, like "It's awesome to be <insert country name>!", it's called cultural acclimation and absorption. It's what the Romans did, except they did it more forcefully and partially through the awe of civilization.

But mostly through genociding.

Also, speaking in superlatives about your own nation is usually taken as racist and supremacist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:00:44 pm

I don't mean be like nationalist, I was trying to make a point about absorbing and assimilating those cultures. I suppose it's easier for a country which started out as a nation of immigrants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2017, 05:05:35 pm

Quote from: Sheb on October 24, 2017, 02:31:37 pm

I seriously dispute that, especially if it was just due to demographic reason (aka, no discrimination against an ethnic group, no one being killed). Hell, people don't even call it genocide in Tibet, where you have clear discriminationa gainst Tibetans.

1999, A Less Tibetan Tibet Many Residents Fear Chinese Migration Will Dilute Culture
"LHASA, China—Among the pilgrims at the gates of the Jokhang temple, the holiest Buddhist site in the capital of Tibet, a Chinese migrant and avowed atheist named Xie Danchun was doing a brisk business. He sells white Tibetan prayer scarves, known as hada," symbols of a culture struggling under periodic assault from authorities in Beijing.
"It's a job," mused Xie, a 24-year-old from Sichuan province, as pilgrims prostrated themselves in the swirling incense smoke outside the 1,300-year-old shrine. "Besides, the silk factory is in my county back home. We run it up here on my county's trucks."
On any given day, an estimated 100 million people are on the move across China looking for work. But perhaps nowhere is China's vast internal migration having a more profound effect on the local population than in Tibet. The arrival here of tens of thousands of job seekers from China's ethnic Han majority, while a minor runoff in a country of 1.3 billion people, is threatening to swamp the culture of 5 million Tibetans.
"I'm not replacing a Tibetan," argued Xie, who came here in pursuit of a fortune two years ago after China relaxed restrictions on travel. Pointing to a teenage Tibetan competitor who was selling scarves of lower quality at the same price, he said, "We're just beating them at their own game."
The fate of Tibetan culture has taken on a new urgency in recent months since the World Bank approved a $160 million loan, over U.S. and German objections, that included millions to help move 58,000 people, including some Han Chinese, onto land claimed as traditionally Tibetan."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-10/31/041r-103199-idx.html

"Chinese strategists argue that the government naturally wants to fill such areas with Han Chinese presumably loyal to Beijing. One senior Chinese analyst compared China's move to resettle Han Chinese in Tibet and Xinjiang to population changes in Alaska. In the 1940s, he noted, native Alaskans made up more than half the population in what would become the state with the largest area. Today, they constitute about 15 percent. "So are we both guilty of cultural genocide?" he asked."
He's right u no

2017, China unrelenting in cultural genocide in Tibet, alleges exile administration
(TibetanReview.net, Oct17, 2017) – Acts of genocide have been and are still being committed by Chinese in Tibet, the President of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) at Dharamshala, India, has alleged in New Delhi on Oct 16 while releasing a report by the Tibet Policy Institute, the CTA’s think tank.
The report, Cultural Genocide in Tibet, is cited as saying China is carrying out systematic annihilation of the cultural heritage of Tibet with the destruction of Tibetan Buddhism and religious traditions, education system, social breakdowns, lawlessness, communal disharmony, uncontrolled greed and a high growth in sex trade and alcoholism.
Releasing the report at the India International centre, Dr Sangay has continued that the Chinese were carrying out destruction of the Tibetan people’s religion and language and also carrying out forced removal of Tibetan nomads while continuing to transfer mainland Chinese people to the Tibetan Plateau.
“The influx of Chinese migrant workers, facilitated by the new railway line and an administration in favour of the migrants, are reducing the Tibetans to an increasingly disenfranchised minority in their own land,” thehindubusinessline.com Oct 16 quoted him as saying.
http://www.tibetanreview.net/china-unrelenting-in-cultural-genocide-in-tibet-alleges-exile-administration/

Really gets my noggin joggin

Quote from: RedKing on October 24, 2017, 04:00:10 pm

Meh. I just picture a German seeing one too many Doner kebab stands and screaming that they're being genocided.
Delicious, juicy genocide.
And as smjjames said, there's a lot of whitey angst over here about the "browning" of America.
I'm sure the Celts said the same thing about the Romans. Then the Romano-Celts said the same thing about these fucking Saxons. And then the Saxons said it about the Normans. And now their 25xgreat-grand kids are saying it about people from, y'know, all those places they conquered.
Cultures change. It's what they do.

If your effort was to argue that people should be calm about their replacement you probably shouldn't use historical examples of invasion which ended poorly for the original inhabitants. In short cultures change, they don't voluntarily replace themselves, the mass movement of millions of people is really quite an intriguing phenomena for the scale is hitherto unknown to posterity. Even the Anglo-Saxon invasion 1,300 years ago was in much less relative numbers that the scale today, likewise the Normans showed up with several thousand men amidst a population of 2 million. It has never been the case, nor had it ever been thinkable, that the capital of the UK would be minority British, but that is the case today. As you can see earlier, numerous world leaders made it their mission to open up immigration and made it their mandate to not give people the question on whether they wanted this done to their nation. Subsequently, this makes them salty, and so the backlash does not fall on their leaders, but on the migrants and their descendants. In my experiences addressing the concerns of people seriously instead of belittling them as morons when they can see clearly what you're doing to their communities helps foster much more intra-community respect than simply laughing at them. End of the day they remain my neighbours and I'd rather keep them as family in civic cooperation if such a thing is not possible by bonds of shared blood, religion or culture. And honestly, European culture wherever you go is in a right state.
Also just factually, the Han trace their continuity several thousand years back, most European sub-groups will trace theirs at least over a thousand years back, including the whole range of North Africa to the ME. Probably youngest is Turkish identity since Turkification of Anatolia started with one of the last great nomadic conquests and epic level Kebabini skeelz

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 04:36:57 pm

If they're so afraid of losing culture, then they should promote culture, like "It's awesome to be <insert country name>!", it's called cultural acclimation and absorption. It's what the Romans did, except they did it more forcefully and partially through the awe of civilization.

If only it was as easy as that. Sadly as with our Al-Britanis, you cannot assimilate an unwilling person, and even if they are culturally assimilated that's not to say they won't still try murdering their homeland's people, or otherwise fostering a community apart from everyone else :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 05:14:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:00:44 pm

I don't mean be like nationalist, I was trying to make a point about absorbing and assimilating those cultures. I suppose it's easier for a country which started out as a nation of immigrants.

Yeah, becsuse we can all tell how great that is going for America. No, I'd rather not become like the US, where races have replaced cultures and race-nationalism have replaced nationalism.


Also,

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:00:44 pm

I don't mean be like nationalist, I was trying to make a point about absorbing and assimilating those cultures.

And how is that not nationalistic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

Immigrants create their own communities just about everywhere, it's not a unique to Britian thing, and evidently we're doing something right in the US.

However, while the backlash in both the US and in Europe are related to immigration, the immigration situation isn't the same for both regions. Here in the US, it's less immigration and much more pure demographic momentum that is freaking people out. Yes, the targets are still immigrants, but the full picture is different since the factors are different.

Also, it's not the first time that the US has reacted to immigrants.

Quote from: scriver on October 24, 2017, 05:14:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:00:44 pm

I don't mean be like nationalist, I was trying to make a point about absorbing and assimilating those cultures. I suppose it's easier for a country which started out as a nation of immigrants.

Yeah, becsuse we can all tell how great that is going for America. No, I'd rather not become like the US, where races have replaced cultures and race-nationalism have replaced nationalism.


Also,

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:00:44 pm

I don't mean be like nationalist, I was trying to make a point about absorbing and assimilating those cultures.

And how is that not nationalistic?

Maybe I have the wrong/a different perspective because I'm American? We're in a bit of an unique position in that our culture as a nation has only been around for a few centuries while those in Europe have thousands.

Also, you're pretty nationalistic yourself when it comes to the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2017, 05:29:05 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

Immigrants create their own communities just about everywhere, it's not a unique to Britian thing, and evidently we're doing something right in the US.

No, creating communities is not unique to anywhere. Everyone does that. Creating communities apart from everyone else where you view your neighbours as corrupting influences to be excluded however, I won't say that's unique to Europe, but it is unfortunate.

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

However, while the backlash in both the US and in Europe are related to immigration, the immigration situation isn't the same for both regions. Here in the US, it's less immigration and much more pure demographic momentum that is freaking people out. Yes, the targets are still immigrants, but the full picture is different since the factors are different.

Also the historic natives of the USA got blitzed by disease and industrial colonizers so no one can legitimately claim any right to the USA

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

Maybe I have the wrong/a different perspective because I'm American? We're in a bit of an unique position in that our culture as a nation has only been around for a few centuries while those in Europe have thousands.

That and the USA is fucking massive so anyone can show up and stake their claim without anyone ever noticing, and it's the world's richest country so people arriving there can buy away their problems and not have to deal with conflict. Except your treatment of those arriving from East Asia or from African Americans seriously wtf

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 05:56:57 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

Also, you're pretty nationalistic yourself when it comes to the EU.

Well yes, but I don't see nationalism as something that is inherently and thoroughly bad - hence why I originally didn't use it but said racism and supremacism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 06:08:12 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 24, 2017, 05:56:57 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 05:22:45 pm

Also, you're pretty nationalistic yourself when it comes to the EU.

Well yes, but I don't see nationalism as something that is inherently and thoroughly bad - hence why I originally didn't use it but said racism and supremacism.

What do you mean by racism and supremacism? Would you say that my saying "Germany's culture is better than the misogynistic, backwards, borderline barbaric claptrap in Afghanistan" is racist and supremacist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2017, 06:17:35 pm

tbh Afghanistan has better tea culture than Germany so don't you be talking shit about them just because they have bacha baazi and shit. It's easy to see the splinters in others without seeing the lumps in your eye

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 06:21:22 pm

Better tea culture totally makes up for systematic child rape.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2017, 06:26:54 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 06:08:12 pm

What do you mean by racism and supremacism? Would you say that my saying "Germany's culture is better than the misogynistic, backwards, borderline barbaric claptrap in Afghanistan" is racist and supremacist?

It would definitely make me wonder if you are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 24, 2017, 06:27:56 pm

Ignoring the best bits of something because there are bad bits is a bit silly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2017, 06:29:59 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 06:21:22 pm

Better tea culture totally makes up for systematic child rape.

Of course it doesn't, but to deny that Germans have no dark sides nor Afghans morality is to needlessly strip down what cannot be ranked into mismatched tiers of people. Hence why I bring up tea culture; a peoples like the Afghanis, for whom their country has been the deathbed of Empires, for whom conflict has been so familiar for most of their lives - that they would continue to show hospitality to one another, and even to foreign soldiers, when they have so little, is a sign of something remarkable. The presence of predators in their midst is a situation all countries can sympathize with, just as from North America to Western Europe frequent scandals of systematic child abuse, human trafficking and sexual abuse has been covered up. I'm not saying you shouldn't attack such immorality, by all means it is right to attack it with fury, but do not extend the hunt recklessly to people trying to do good in the world just because they think differently.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 24, 2017, 06:37:27 pm

It's fine to say you prefer a culture of no child rape to a culture of child rape. It's not fine to be reductionist and degenerate the whole of another culture for containing values you disagree with, even extreme ones like sympathy towards child rape. Most people aren't even fully aligned with their own culture's values.

"Germany's culture is better than Afghanistan's" isn't a reasonable kind of statement to begin with, much less a true or false one. There's too much you're taking in and throwing to the ground in the span of a single sentence for that to ever be rational.

Not to mention that even when you get away from extremes there's still harsh cultural clash on things that probably don't really matter and that nobody reasonable would agree signifies the worth of the entire culture, as seen whenever a German and an American try to talk about culture.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 08:32:23 pm

I don't see how it's a controversial statement. Yes, German culture has negative aspects. For example, its almost pathological self-hatred. But not all cultures are created equal. I don't buy the idea of cultural relativism. Cultures absolutely can be better or worse than other ones. If you ask me to rank them from top to bottom, I don't have that answer for you. But I do know that most European cultures are absolutely superior to most Middle Eastern cultures. And I know I would not want European cultures to be damaged by integrating parts from Middle Eastern cultures, even if Middle Eastern cultures do have positive aspects to them (and they do, I do not deny that). But their positive aspects are outweighed by their negative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 24, 2017, 08:49:13 pm

"Cultural relativism" in that sense is essentially a strawman, nobody not an extremist really believes that people should be free from judgement over beating women or raping children because it's culturally normal for them. But a person is not a culture and a culture is not a person. You can't apply personal responsibility to act decently towards that which isn't actually personal. What I'm saying to you is that the method by which your are choosing to judge culture isn't intelligible.

It wasn't that long ago that European cultures had practices similar or orthogonal in nastiness to what you have an issue with about Middle Eastern cultures. It was less than a century ago that British girls without wealth were expected to become domestic servants for pathetic wages in 16-hour or greater workdays and health-destroying conditions to hold up the estates of the wealthy. Until the Nazis gave it a bad name there were a lot of countries where anti-Jewish pogroms were your youth entertainment. What does it say about Europe's culture that it's people basically tried to take over the world and enslave everyone, more than once, and be the site of the most deadly wars...ever!

Is a sympathy towards child rape worse than jingoism so extreme it segues headlong into industrialized genocide and war severe enough that there are still volitile shells everywhere? But of course, that isn't a fair question, which is my point.

The cultures you're criticizing here aren't in a vacuum. Their conditions and values are derived from the world around them and the history they've experienced. It's the way humans are. As LW points out, pedophilia seems disturbingly common among rich and powerful people of all cultures. And why is that? Does bathing in dollars make you a pedophile? Does pedophilia come with a free stock trading mastery? Or is it that the radical freedom provided by wealth in a capitalist world encourages people to develop their sickest impulses and carry them out?

Women's rights suffer in countries where women lack political autonomy, and flourish in countries where they have it. Men can get away with using women to their own benefit, and so they do so. So if you're concerned about the values of particular cultures, what you really ought to be concerned about the founding conditions of the culture, which is constantly being recreated by the people who hold it. Take away the motive, take away the behavior.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 24, 2017, 08:50:41 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 08:32:23 pm

I don't see how it's a controversial statement. Yes, German culture has negative aspects. For example, its almost pathological self-hatred. But not all cultures are created equal. I don't buy the idea of cultural relativism. Cultures absolutely can be better or worse than other ones. If you ask me to rank them from top to bottom, I don't have that answer for you. But I do know that most European cultures are absolutely superior to most Middle Eastern cultures. And I know I would not want European cultures to be damaged by integrating parts from Middle Eastern cultures, even if Middle Eastern cultures do have positive aspects to them (and they do, I do not deny that). But their positive aspects are outweighed by their negative.

That looks like a dog whistle, and sounds like one too. Especially if you consider that "integrating parts from Middle Eastern cultures" includes Arabic numerals, chemistry, and just about half the culture of Southern Spain. Oh, and IIRC Maltese, one of the official languages of the EU.

Oh, and also Judaism. And Christianity. The whole monotheism thing, really. And growing grain, I think. And beer. And so on and so on...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 24, 2017, 08:52:02 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 24, 2017, 08:49:13 pm

-

Exactly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 24, 2017, 09:54:40 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 24, 2017, 08:49:13 pm

The cultures you're criticizing here aren't in a vacuum. Their conditions and values are derived from the world around them and the history they've experienced. It's the way humans are. As LW points out, pedophilia seems disturbingly common among rich and powerful people of all cultures. And why is that? Does bathing in dollars make you a pedophile? Does pedophilia come with a free stock trading mastery? Or is it that the radical freedom provided by wealth in a capitalist world encourages people to develop their sickest impulses and carry them out?

There might be something in that, that whatever is gained too easily loses meaning. e.g. if you can have it all, what becomes valuable is that which you cannot have. e.g. how taboos become fetishes, and to someone super-rich who could in effect have all the sex they want, the only value becomes in that which you cannot have - the remaining taboos.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 24, 2017, 11:06:27 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 24, 2017, 08:50:41 pm

That looks like a dog whistle, and sounds like one too. Especially if you consider that "integrating parts from Middle Eastern cultures" includes Arabic numerals,

Myth, those are from India.

Quote

chemistry,

Also mostly a myth; the word is from Egyptian, essentially nothing about the concept is

Quote

Oh, and also Judaism. And Christianity. The whole monotheism thing, really.

Really not seeing the benefit there. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2017, 11:42:43 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 24, 2017, 11:06:27 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on October 24, 2017, 08:50:41 pm

That looks like a dog whistle, and sounds like one too. Especially if you consider that "integrating parts from Middle Eastern cultures" includes Arabic numerals,

Myth, those are from India.

Quote

chemistry,

Also mostly a myth; the word is from Egyptian, essentially nothing about the concept is

Quote

Oh, and also Judaism. And Christianity. The whole monotheism thing, really.

Really not seeing the benefit there. :P

The Arabs did contribute a heck of a lot to the field of mathematics, but the orgin correction is besides the point that helgo was making.

The word 'chemistry' may also have a Greek origin, though the Greek and Egyptian words themselves are actually pretty similar to each other. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_chemistry)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

Greeks and Egyptians go way back. e.g. there are artworks in Egypt dates from around 1600BC that are clearly Minoan in origin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_frescoes_from_Tell_el-Daba) and were originally dated to the Hyksos period. The Hyksos were foreign invaders and the Minoan frescos turn up in their capital city in Egypt. So there were probably significant levels of communication / settlement and conquest all across the Eastern Mediterranean for 1000 years before the "classical greece" era. Races are BS. Everyone around the meditteranean is related to everyone else.

Interestingly, the "modern-era" history books (written from the 18th-19th centuries by "aryan" scholars mainly in England and German) discount basically all cross-cultural connections between Europe, Africa and Asia before around 700BC. Mainly because they wanted to set the Greeks up as a "pure aryan" race who invented everything for themselves and didn't need earlier cultures to learn from.

If you read 20th century history books it's full of this racist bullshit, such as I picked up a book by historian H. D. F. Kitto (who wrote what was considered a standard text for college-level ancient history) after hearing about the "aryan whitewashing" of Greek history and it had statements such as "the Greeks invented vowels, and it is vowels which make rational thought possible". I kid you not, that's what his books were full of. The reason for this statement was that it's impossible to deny that the Greek alphabet is derived from the Phoenecian alphabet, so they have to say "yeah but the Greeks did it better".

Additionally, I looked up in a kid's history book maps of Greek vs Phoenician settlements across the meditteranean. They were equally spread out everywhere, from Spain to the Black Sea except ... within the borders of modern Greece. Apparently no Phoenician ever settled in that area. And that area alone. Again, it's the aryan whitewashing of Greece by 19th century scholarship, which was anti-african / anti-semitic. Note that the Greeks themselves had legends of certain Greek cities that originated as Phoenecian or Egyptian settlements. Also classics scholars were adamant about saying stuff like "well the Greeks went to the Phoenecians and got the alphabet. The Phoenecians didn't bring it to them!" when the Phoenecians were already everywhere to the east and west of Greece and had huge fleets that the Greeks lacked. They could get to Spain but never visited the Aegean? Get real. "scholars" discount the possibilty that Phoenecians themselves brought their writing to Greece via e.g. trade or settlement, because saying that wouldn't highlight the "go get them" attitude of the Greeks. Classics history books are basically a massive irrational blowjob for Greek superiority over everyone else.
 
The scholars of the "classics" school of thought wanted to seriously downplay the contributions of both the Phoenecians and Egyptians to early Greek/European culture because of anti-African and anti-semitic beliefs, and the rise of Eurocentrism in the 18th/19th centuries. Basically all the history books about ancient Greece are heavily compromised by centuries of "white washing".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on October 25, 2017, 04:45:41 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

-snip-

Oh man, school textbooks are the most delicious bullshit ever when it comes to history. I am actually having to do comparisons between various books as part of a class in my history course due to a moralist shitstorm that is going on in my country (I won't go into details since this is the EU thread, anyone who wants details can PM me).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2017, 09:27:15 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

Interestingly, the "modern-era" history books (written from the 18th-19th centuries by "aryan" scholars mainly in England and German) discount basically all cross-cultural connections between Europe, Africa and Asia before around 700BC. Mainly because they wanted to set the Greeks up as a "pure aryan" race who invented everything for themselves and didn't need earlier cultures to learn from.

England and German? U wot. The European colonial powers pick up racialist discourse in the 19th century and spread it through their colonial systems, and they picked it up from the USA - which gave it its modern meanings in the late-18th century. It's only until the mid-19th century that they even coined the term ayyyyryan lmao m9, before then they argued between all chaotic messes of disciplines over sons of Japheth and Shem and Antediluvian things, even the very term Caucasian was picked because Blumenbach liked the skull sample he found in the Caucasus the most. Even Blumenbach noted that there weren't clear lines of distinction between the categories of man he had made, and that they blended insensibly between one another. It's oddly enough not the 18th-19th centuries, but from the mid-19th century to the mid-20th centuries that Race in discourse becomes what we know, odd because it's surprising that such a concept that seems so inseparable from modern political strife, is such a young idea. But anyways, I'm questioning whether there isn't some serious and grievous anachronism going on m9

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

If you read 20th century history books it's full of this racist bullshit, such as I picked up a book by historian H. D. F. Kitto (who wrote what was considered a standard text for college-level ancient history) after hearing about the "aryan whitewashing" of Greek history

Yeah you get what I mean, it's from this period that racialist discourse is really born.

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

and it had statements such as "the Greeks invented vowels, and it is vowels which make rational thought possible". I kid you not, that's what his books were full of.

And then the Welsh vomit y's onto the alphabet

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

The reason for this statement was that it's impossible to deny that the Greek alphabet is derived from the Phoenecian alphabet, so they have to say "yeah but the Greeks did it better".

Denying that the Greeks didn't add innovation is about as foolish as saying because the Abbasids did not invent Algebra or Philosophy their innovations do not count either. Pls

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

Additionally, I looked up in a kid's history book maps of Greek vs Phoenician settlements across the meditteranean. They were equally spread out everywhere, from Spain to the Black Sea except ... within the borders of modern Greece. Apparently no Phoenician ever settled in that area. And that area alone. Again, it's the aryan whitewashing of Greece by 19th century scholarship, which was anti-african / anti-semitic. Note that the Greeks themselves had legends of certain Greek cities that originated as Phoenecian or Egyptian settlements.

Spoiler: m9 (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/0gzXwoZ.jpg)

When the Greeks and Phoenicians tried settling the same space it often ended with armed conflict to drive one of them out. They had two different goals in mind, one with spreading Hellenic civilization, the other with spreading the reach of their Trading Empire. There exists no evidence to my knowledge that Phoenicians decided to colonize an area infamous for its mountains, cliffs and clusters of powerful city states, where we do see them make colonies in Anatolia alongside the Greeks. So if there are Egyptian or Phoenician colonies in Greece you know about, I desperately want to know, as I don't. We do have evidence for example that the Greeks set up a colony in Egypt (http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/naukratis_the_greeks_in_egypt.aspx), and historians like Herodotus talk of how the Greeks got their alphabet from the Phoenicians or Papyrus from Egypt and so on, the cultural exchange being extraordinary - but I should really hope that people do not go completely overboard with the current fad of killing the white philosophers because they're white. It's honestly painful when I have to read people saying England is African because the Romans brought Phoenician auxiliaries (??why live??).

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

Also classics scholars were adamant about saying stuff like "well the Greeks went to the Phoenecians and got the alphabet. The Phoenecians didn't bring it to them!" when the Phoenecians were already everywhere to the east and west of Greece and had huge fleets that the Greeks lacked. They could get to Spain but never visited the Aegean? Get real. "scholars" discount the possibilty that Phoenecians themselves brought their writing to Greece via e.g. trade or settlement, because saying that wouldn't highlight the "go get them" attitude of the Greeks. Classics history books are basically a massive irrational blowjob for Greek superiority over everyone else.

You acknowledge generalizing the inequities of race based then do so for an entire discipline. Absolutely shamful display I commit sudoku now.
 

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 01:09:03 am

The scholars of the "classics" school of thought wanted to seriously downplay the contributions of both the Phoenecians and Egyptians to early Greek/European culture because of anti-African and anti-semitic beliefs, and the rise of Eurocentrism in the 18th/19th centuries. Basically all the history books about ancient Greece are heavily compromised by centuries of "white washing".

END ME FAST D:

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 24, 2017, 08:32:23 pm

I don't see how it's a controversial statement.

Basically it's controversial because in order to make such statements you must quantify on what metrics you judge and place cultures on an objective standard, wholly independent on your own subjective preferences. So in arguing that x culture is better than y culture, you have to explain in what is x culture better than y culture.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 09:53:59 am

Greek sources say more than just that they acquired phoenician alphabet by "papyrus". The Greek legendary figure Cadmus was said to be of Phoenecian origin who created the settlement that became the city of Thebes. Why would Theban Greeks say they the city had a non-Greek founder if it didn't really? This is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

https://phoenicia.org/cadmus.html

Also the dynasty that ruled Argos was said to be derived from Egyptians. People visiting Argos in antiquity (during the literate period) related stories about the founder/king Danaus, who came from Egypt after losing a civil war, as if they're well known fact (or believed to be fact) by the locals. Again, they'd have little reason to say their royal family had been founded by foreigners if it really hadn't been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaus

That one of the points, and there are textbooks about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Athena

Quote

The first volume of Black Athena describes in detail Bernal's views on how the Ancient model acknowledging Egyptian and Phoenician influences on Greece came under attack during the 18th and 19th centuries. Bernal concentrates on four interrelated forces: the Christian reaction, the idea of progress, racism and Romantic Hellenism.[2]

The Christian reaction. Already Martin Luther had fought the Church of Rome with the Greek Testament. Greek was seen as a sacred Christian tongue which Protestants could plausibly claim was more Christian than Latin. Many French students of Ancient Greece in the 17th century were brought up as Huguenots.[3] The study of Ancient Greece especially in Protestant countries created an alliance between Greece and Protestant Christianity which tended to exclude other influences.

The idea of progress. The antiquity of Egypt and Mesopotamia had previously made those civilizations particularly worthy of respect and admiration, but the emergence of the idea of progress portrayed later civilizations as more advanced and therefore better. Earlier cultures came to be seen as based on superstition and dogmatism.

Racism. The Atlantic slave trade and later European colonialism required the intellectual justification of racism. It became paramount to divorce Africans and Africa from high civilisation, and Egypt from Africa itself. Ancient Greeks would be divorced from Ancient Egypt through the concept of the Greek Miracle, and would be reclaimed as whites and Europeans.

Romanticism. Romantics saw humans as essentially divided in national or ethnic groups. The German philosopher Herder encouraged Germans to be proud of their origins, their language and their national characteristics or national genius. Romantics longed for small, virtuous and "pure" communities in remote and cold places: Switzerland, North Germany and Scotland. When considering the past, their natural choice was Greece. The Philhellenic movement led to new archaeological discoveries as well contributing to the Greek War of Independence from the Ottoman empire. Most Philhellenes were Romantics and Protestants.

The bit "especially in protestant countries" is where the "English and German" part is relevant. The scholars promoting this "new" view at the time hailed predominantly from those two nations. It mentions so in the book cited. English and German thinkers latched onto this for different reasons. English because eurocentrism backed up the justification for empire and conquest, and the Germans were trying to forge a unified national / racial identity.

Also the point is, and Martin Bernal's book is full of direct quotes to show this, that these scholars were attacking previous views of the type I'm talking about. The sheer amount of writing they did attacking those counter-views is in fact proof that the counter-views existed and were widespread enough that the people who didn't like those views were mounting full-scale ideological warfare against those views.

And this was centuries ago, before any sort of liberal "cultural relativism" thing even existed. So they weren't attacking liberal historical revisionism, they were the historical revisionists. The cross-cultural origins of Greece were in fact the previous mainstream viewpoint in scholarship.

Anyway here's a quote from an opponent of Bernal:

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/25/books/rescuing-the-greeks.html

Quote

The standard scholarly position on Egypt and the Greeks goes as follows: The Greeks had great respect for Egyptian culture, which was older than theirs, and they observed parallels in their religion and thought to what they found in Egypt. So they supposed that they had borrowed from the Egyptians. However, in the 20th century we can show with the analytical tools of scholarship (above all, source criticism and documentary material such as inscriptions, coins and papyri) that they were wrong. I subscribe to this position, but we have to admit that it cannot be promulgated as proven fact.

So ... the "standard model" of Greek history studies is that the Greeks were great and supersmart and invented everything themselves. And if the Greeks tell you otherwise, well that's just because the Greeks were dumb and didn't know their own history, and just made shit up about having gotten stuff from other earlier cultures, just like they made shit up about having Phoenecian and Egyptian settlers/conquerers who founded cities. Great theory there, fellas. Super-fucking-consistent logic. Can you see why the standard model is getting the piss taken out of it?

BTW here's an allusion to the idea that "[Greek] vowels made rational thought possible" that I mentioned before.  Page 54-56 here critiques the concept, which shows that it was a widespread concept in academia among those "logical" scholars who set up the standard model that the guy above subscribes to:

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=WeHPGhIfgrYC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=the+greeks+invented+vowels+which+make+rational+thought+possible&source=bl&ots=ZI06cB5IB4&sig=fWBS7oqfSs-gRHcNzZaeJ4HB3ks&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii5uKVjYzXAhWMFpQKHfz0D44Q6AEINzAC#v=onepage&q=the%20greeks%20invented%20vowels%20which%20make%20rational%20thought%20possible&f=false

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 25, 2017, 10:42:29 am

Not surprised that there would be cultural exchanges given their proximity and how much easier plying the Mediterranean is compared to plying the Atlantic.

And then theres the stuff about Atlanteans or Greeks or what have you crossing the Atlantic and giving civilization to MesoAmerica, like the natives are too primitive to develop civilization. That's the same BS that came out of the same historical ideological stuff.

It's not impossible for some ships to get blown off course or something and make it to the Americas (at this point, it's not who has visited the Americas, it's who hasn't), but the whole "bringing civilization to the uncivilized savages"? Come on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 10:47:02 am

That's my point, nobody (except a few whackos) is saying that "everything" in Greece owes it origins to other nations, Bernal & Co are just saying not to discount the existing, known evidence that there has been cross-fertilization.

And he provides a ton of evidence that there was a concerted effort of anglo/german scholars who systematically tore all this down over a couple of centuries of scholarship, often with the most flimsy of logical bases for doing so. Like the citations above show, the main rationales for doing so were to create justifications for religious, racist, colonialist and nationalist ideas.

Basically if you write history books that appeal to the powers that be, then they are the ones that are going to be taught and elaborated on, just like historians who butter up to a king are the ones who get paid to write history books by the king.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2017, 11:24:50 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 09:53:59 am

Greek sources say more than just that they acquired phoenician alphabet by "papyrus".

Yeah m9, you misread my sentence. I said they got papyrus from the Egyptians, and their alphabet from the Phoenicians, not the alphabet by papyrus xD
No we're in agreement, Herodotus explicitly says the Greeks were noalphabet before learning it from the Phoenicians

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 09:53:59 am

The Greek legendary figure Cadmus was said to be of Phoenecian origin who created the settlement that became the city of Thebes. Why would Theban Greeks say they the city had a non-Greek founder if it didn't really? This is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Legendary Phoenician prince =/= Phoenician colony. Pretty cool, but I reckon looking into why people make foundation myths, and I'd like to just quote from Herodotus:

Quote

These Phoenicians who came with Cadmus and of whom the Gephyraeans were a part brought with them to Hellas, among many other kinds of learning, the alphabet, which had been unknown before this, I think, to the Greeks. As time went on the sound and the form of the letters were changed. At this time the Greeks who were settled around them were for the most part Ionians, and after being taught the letters by the Phoenicians, they used them with a few changes of form. In so doing, they gave to these characters the name of Phoenician, as was quite fair seeing that the Phoenicians had brought them into Greece. The Ionians have also from ancient times called sheets of papyrus skins, since they formerly used the skins of sheep and goats due to the lack of papyrus. Even to this day there are many foreigners who write on such skins. Link. (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.+5.58&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126) Now the Dionysus who was called the son of Semele, daughter of Cadmus, was about sixteen hundred years before my time, and Heracles son of Alcmene about nine hundred years; and Pan the son of Penelope (for according to the Greeks Penelope and Hermes were the parents of Pan) was about eight hundred years before me, and thus of a later date than the Trojan war.  Link. (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D2%3Achapter%3D145%3Asection%3D4)

Cadmus then is estimated by Herodotus as having appeared 1,600 years before him, with Herodotus himself writing at 440 B.C..

Quote

This order of events in the semi-historical, semi-legendary Greek past conflicts with the fact that the Cadmeian alphabet has not been found in Greece before about the middle of the eighth century. Furthermore, because of certain characteristics in their form, the earliest Cadmeian letters bear the best resemblance to the Phoenician letters.
https://phoenicia.org/cadmus.html

Hence why it's chronologically impossible for a legendary Prince to have been the one who brought the Phoenician alphabet to the Greeks. Foundational legends are important as they are today as they were back then, for much the same reasons. They give a legitimacy and awe to why you are where you are, a reason to be, much as the same way the American foundation myth today is of being a shining beacon of liberty and opportunity - there need not be reality in the legend ;]
So the Cadmus legend gave Thebes' ruling families legitimacy in hereditary rule. Cadmus shows up, gives the Greeks the alphabet, slays the water-dragon and sows its teeth into the ground to make the Spartoi, then the Spartoi kill each other until the strongest 5 remain - and those 5 aid Cadmus in founding Thebes, becoming the 5 founding families. Maybe there's something behind the Spartoi and Cadmus but evidence is scarce beyond the legend, which is legendary. Look at the Dorian invasion arguments going on for example, with scholars still trying to figure out today whether the Dorians invaded or mass migrated, or whether they had connections with the sea peoples that invaded Egypt, or whether they had actually invaded at all and weren't just a cultural evolution of Greece. Whether the Dorians truly did invade will hopefully be confirmed or reevaluated by future archaeological discoveries, but regardless of the veracity of the legend, it offered the same sort of legitimacy to such peoples as the Laconians as to why they were allowed to conquer and enslave Achaean Greeks. Simple: They were Dorian Greeks, descendants of Heracles.

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 09:53:59 am

Also the dynasty that ruled Argos was said to be derived from Egyptians. People visiting Argos in antiquity (during the literate period) related stories about the founder/king Danaus as if they're well known fact (or believed to be fact) by the locals. Again, they'd have little reason to say their royal family had been founded by foreigners if it really hadn't been.

Danaus wasn't a historical figure nor was he the founder King of Argos, in his myth he fled to Argos - descending from Io, a Priestess of Argos who Zeus turned into a cow. Because Zeus is a bellend.
Anyways Argos's foundation myth was that it was founded by Argos, son of Zeus, and the city itself (if you'll pardon using Wikipedia) 7,000 years old today (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argos). At any rate, by comparison the Danaus legend takes place 1,400 years after Agamemnon ruled Argos and Diomedes set forth to stab two gods in one day. Personally I subscribe to the theory that Argos was simply named Argos because the area it was founded in was a highly fertile plain, and the name Argos signifies an agricultural plain.
The legend of Danaus is interesting, and honestly I think Japan is normal compared to Ancient Greek myth, but yeah Danaus is the twin brother of Aegyptus, King of all Egypt and Arabia, both grandsons of Poseidon and great grandsons of a cow. Aegyptus inherits Egypt and conquers Arabia, Danaus rules over Libya, and Aegyptus has 50 sons while Danaus has 50 daughters. Naturally Aegyptus commands Danaus to give his 50 daughters to his 50 sons in marriage, to which Danaus refuses. Danaus elects to flee instead, building the first ship ever, fleeting to Argos where he has a divine connection owing to his descent from the Priestess Io. Also, he is credited as having brought wells by Pliny to Greece at the same time. Owing to the power of Aegyptus, as he shows up later, Danaus is forced to give their hands in marriage, but commands each daughter to slay her husband on the marriage night. 49 of them kill their husbands except Hypermestra, who spares her husband Lynceus. At first Danaus is furious, but then relents, and as he can't find suitors for his 49 widowed daughters offers them as prizes in a footrace - though their is another tradition of the legend which recounts that Lynceus kills Danaus & his daughters, thereupon seizing the throne of Argos. At any rate whether Lynceus usurps or inherits the throne, the 49 daughters are tasked in Hades with filling a vessel with water, but the vessels all have no bottoms. This represents the rivers and springs of Argolis drying up in Summer. Also whatever the outcome, Lynceus becomes the next legendary ancestors of the Royal Line of Argos, which then counts Perseus and Heracles in their number. I had to double check, but they have no connection with the Argo and the Argonauts ;]

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 09:53:59 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Athena

Quote

The first volume of Black Athena describes in detail Bernal's views on how the Ancient model acknowledging Egyptian and Phoenician influences on Greece came under attack during the 18th and 19th centuries. Bernal concentrates on four interrelated forces: the Christian reaction, the idea of progress, racism and Romantic Hellenism.[2]
The Christian reaction. Already Martin Luther had fought the Church of Rome with the Greek Testament. Greek was seen as a sacred Christian tongue which Protestants could plausibly claim was more Christian than Latin. Many French students of Ancient Greece in the 17th century were brought up as Huguenots.[3] The study of Ancient Greece especially in Protestant countries created an alliance between Greece and Protestant Christianity which tended to exclude other influences.
The idea of progress. The antiquity of Egypt and Mesopotamia had previously made those civilizations particularly worthy of respect and admiration, but the emergence of the idea of progress portrayed later civilizations as more advanced and therefore better. Earlier cultures came to be seen as based on superstition and dogmatism.
Racism. The Atlantic slave trade and later European colonialism required the intellectual justification of racism. It became paramount to divorce Africans and Africa from high civilisation, and Egypt from Africa itself. Ancient Greeks would be divorced from Ancient Egypt through the concept of the Greek Miracle, and would be reclaimed as whites and Europeans.
Romanticism. Romantics saw humans as essentially divided in national or ethnic groups. The German philosopher Herder encouraged Germans to be proud of their origins, their language and their national characteristics or national genius. Romantics longed for small, virtuous and "pure" communities in remote and cold places: Switzerland, North Germany and Scotland. When considering the past, their natural choice was Greece. The Philhellenic movement led to new archaeological discoveries as well contributing to the Greek War of Independence from the Ottoman empire. Most Philhellenes were Romantics and Protestants.

The bit "especially in protestant countries" is where the "English and German" part is relevant. The scholars promoting this "new" view at the time hailed predominantly from those two nations.

Quote

he book also ignited a debate in the academic community. While some reviewers contend that studies of the origin of Greek civilization were tainted by a foundation of 19th century racism, many have criticized Bernal for what they perceive to be the speculative nature of his hypothesis, unsystematic and linguistically incompetent handling of etymologies and a naive handling of ancient myth and historiography. The claims made in Black Athena were heavily questioned inter alia in Black Athena Revisited (1996), a collection of essays edited by Mary Lefkowitz and her colleague Guy MacLean Rogers.
Critics voice their strongest doubts over Bernal's approach to language and word derivations (etymologies). Cambridge Egyptologist John D. Ray has accused Bernal's work of having a confirmation bias. Edith Hall compares Bernal's thesis to the myth of the Olympian gods overwhelming the Titans and Giants, which was once thought of as a historical recollection of Homo sapiens taking over from Neanderthal man. She asserts that this historical approach to myth firmly belongs in the nineteenth century.
Others have challenged the lack of archaeological evidence for Bernal's thesis. Egyptologist James Weinstein points out that there is very little evidence that the ancient Egyptians were a colonizing people in the third millennium and second millennium BC.[7] Furthermore, there is no evidence for Egyptian colonies of any sort in the Aegean world. Weinstein accuses Bernal of relying primarily on his interpretations of Greek myths as well as distorted interpretations of the archaeological and historical data.
In 2001 Bernal published Black Athena Writes Back: Martin Bernal Responds to Critics as a response to criticism of his earlier works.
Thomas McEvilley concluded in 2002 that while Bernal's "analysis of earlier periods of anti-Semitic attitude in regard to ancient Near Eastern culture may remain valuable, his attempt...to derive Greek philosophy from Africa seems so glaringly unsupported by evidence that it is likely to pass without leaving a trace

Really gets the ol' neurons networking

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 10:47:02 am

That's my point, nobody (except a few whackos) is saying that "everything" in Greece owes it origins to other nations, Bernal & Co are just saying not to discount the existing, known evidence that there has been cross-fertilization.

Bernal is one of the whackos asserting without evidence that Greece owes its origins to other nations. Cultural exchange =/= Egypt is the birthplace of Greek civilization

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 10:47:02 am

And he provides a ton of evidence that there was a concerted effort of anglo/german scholars who systematically tore all this down over a couple of centuries of scholarship, often with the most flimsy of logical bases for doing so. Like the citations above show, the main rationales for doing so were to create justifications for religious, racist, colonialist and nationalist ideas.

Someone being wrong does not make you right.

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 10:47:02 am

Basically if you write history books that appeal to the powers that be, then they are the ones that are going to be taught and elaborated on, just like historians who butter up to a king are the ones who get paid to write history books by the king.

And I agree, and Bernal remains wrong, and it continues to be wrong to annihilate an entire discipline and history based off of your own anachronisms and selections.

*EDIT
As peace offering to ensure good cultural exchange I offer you a fresh meme Reelya

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/dKeOXMR.png)

We xenia now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

"annihilate an entire discipline and history" yeah over-reacting much?

That's pretty much an appeal to consequence / appeal to emotion right there. If he writes something then it's just a book. If a whole discipline implodes because of him just writing a book, that's their problem, not his. Anyway they're all stuffy old academics, it's not your normal shtick to give a damn about their cosy little theories. I'm skeptical that you of all people are suddenly feeling bad for some academics who've had their ivory tower rattled.

Also note that I've read Bernal's book, and at no point does he cite "large scale Egyptian colonization of the Aegean". So any disproof of that would seem to be a red herring / straw man. The Bernal critics suffer from one main flaw - they're often debunking stuff he never wrote rather than taking apart his actual argument. And the stuff they're debunking is often completely at odds with what is in his books.

e.g. the writer I cited above showed the Egyptians weren't black and and says "Bernal was wrong" despite ... "Black Egyptians" not having the slightest thing to do with anything Bernal wrote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2017, 11:55:03 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

"annihilate an entire discipline and history" yeah over-reacting much?

Sadly not, the state of classics is in a right fucking mess and in danger of going extinct in most classrooms. The subject is dying and the recent push to further erase what traces of it remain in other disciplines because Plato and Socrates are white will fuck it right up even further. To put things into context, classics, ancient Greek, Latin, even classical civilizations, all are declining in both state and private - for example in Scotland 2014 a grand total of 28 students studied advanced level Latin in the entire country, state and independent combined.

Hence why I'm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/dKeOXMR.png)

Because it is kill
On the bright side the topic remains popular if the study does not. Have you read A Secret History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_History) by any chance? It's a positively moist/moist book, and one of the best I've ever read. Gives me hope that perhaps across the Atlantics there are weird culty classics students doing bacchanals in American Universities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

Those aren't good reasons to never question orthodoxy. Even Bernal's harshest critics concede that he was right about how scholarship got to that point.

Nobody ever questions the stuff he wrote about the "white washing" of Greek history that happened from the 18th-late 19th centuries because they know that they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they questioned what he wrote about that. And that's what about 2/3rds of his book is all about. So in other words, the vast bulk of what he wrote about how academia got to that state using dodgy logic isn't the part they try and refute.

Often they try and tar him with guilt by association - e.g. pointing out that what other people say is wrong, then implicate Bernal merely because he's on the same "side" despite him not actually espousing their views - or debunk things which he in fact clearly stated the opposite - in the intro to the first volume of the book he mentions that he doesn't believe that Egyptians were black, yet "black egyptians" is cited in articles like the one I linked above as something he "got wrong". Did that writer even read his book?

Or the "lack of widespread Egyptian settlements" argument, when in fact the vast bulk of his firrst book, when it's not talking about the 18th-19th century scholarship stuff, is in fact centered on the possibility of Hyksos settlement in Greece. And the Hyksos are categorically not Egyptians, nor were they black. Yet somehow they manage to write whole articles and books "debunking" him without even mentioning the Hyksos at all, which is weird since that was basically his entire theory.

So they disprove that "black Egyptians" were in Greece and say "Bernal got it wrong", when in fact his entire book is about west semitic conquerers who spread out of the Levantine region across the eastern Meditteranean. The idea is that these conquerers spread ideas in the same way that e.g. the Mongols had spread ideas through conquest, but not their own ideas. Nobody ever writes stuff to debunk that, but it's the entire theory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 25, 2017, 12:18:22 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

There aren't good reasons to never question orthodoxy.

Not being burned at the stake is not enough of a good reason for you, heretic?  >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2017, 12:34:33 pm

*Meta EDIT
Sorry m8, didn't see you edit in more stuff, not ignoring your points

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

That's pretty much an appeal to consequence / appeal to emotion right there. If he writes something then it's just a book. If a whole discipline implodes because of him just writing a book, that's their problem, not his.

Of course it's their problem, that's why I bring it up. He can fire and forget as many things, he's one more missile fired at the fragile pillar of muh grecoroman anime studies.

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

Anyway they're all stuffy old academics, it's not your normal shtick to give a damn about their cosy little theories. I'm skeptical that you of all people are suddenly feeling bad for some academics who've had their ivory tower rattled.

I was lucky to go to one of the last schools offering Latin & Classics on the curriculum, from all I've seen of it it's not an ivory tower of stuffy old academics. You know me, I despise the lot! :D
Classics though, Jesus, it's not an ivory tower of aloof intellectuals. That tower fell down a long time ago and the underfunded remnants of starving students are scurrying through the rubble trying not to be swept away by the wind. It's a grim situation for all involved really, it's like God - a fragile thing, as strong as those who uphold it.

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

Also note that I've read Bernal's book, and at no point does he cite "large scale Egyptian colonization of the Aegean". So any disproof of that would seem to be a red herring / straw man. The Bernal critics suffer from one main flaw - they're often debunking stuff he never wrote rather than taking apart his actual argument. And the stuff they're debunking is often completely at odds with what is in his books.

Forget large scale, the critic was bringing up the point that there is no evidence of any colonization or interest in colonization from the Ancient Egyptians in the Aegean

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 11:46:15 am

e.g. the writer I cited above showed the Egyptians weren't black and and says "Bernal was wrong" despite ... "Black Egyptians" not having the slightest thing to do with anything Bernal wrote.

The criticism that Bernal was deliberately interpreting myths or legends wrong (portraying Danaus as the founder of Argos for example?), the criticism that Bernal used legend or myth as evidence in lieu of evidence (Cadmus bringing the alphabet far before we know the alphabet appears), Edith Hall talking of the historical approach to myth being outdated by the 19th century, James Weistein criticizing him for relying on his own interpretations of myths instead of evidence e.t.c., I don't see this addressed at all.

Also just to further stress, I do not hate education. As a matter of fact, I think it is one of the most important institutions we have. Police, Armies, Governments and Medical Services fix problems when it's too late - the damage is done. Schools fix problems before they are problems. Nor for that matter do I really have a disdain for ivory tower intellectualism, I value knowledge for knowledge's sake, I don't see why a philosopher has to justify a practical utilization of their vocation to exist, and it saddens me to see them serving as coffee baristas. I only have distaste for those smug few desirous of elitist consolidation, of families running dynasties of favoured children going to schools whose fees outstrip the salaries of multiple families. I feel bad when disciplines die, as I am learned to appreciate them :/

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

Those aren't good reasons to never question orthodoxy.

What orthodoxy existed?

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

Even Bernal's harshest critics concede that he was right about how scholarship got to that point.
Nobody ever questions the stuff he wrote about the "white washing" of Greek history that happened from the 18th-late 19th centuries because they know that they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they questioned what he wrote about that. And that's what about 2/3rds of his book is all about. So in other words, the vast bulk of what he wrote about how academia got to that state using dodgy logic isn't the part they try and refute.

Then call me the utmost harshest critic then because I call into question his use of anachronism especially regarding the 18th century, when it was the mid-19th century to mid-20th century that saw the birth of racialist discourse. Likewise it is easy to argue that many of the Academic Europeans of the mid-19th century were racist Orientalists, because there is an abundance of evidence pointing to that and was in discourse decades before Bernal published this book. So what are Academics going to address, something which in all likelihood they agree with because they studied it in critical theory classes when they were fresh 20 somethings, or the evidence-less assertion that Greek civilization is born from Egypt?

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

Often they try and tar him with guilt by association - e.g. pointing out that what other people say is wrong, then implicate Bernal merely because he's on the same "side" despite him not actually espousing their views - or debunk things which he in fact clearly stated the opposite - in the intro to the first volume of the book he mentions that he doesn't believe that Egyptians were black, yet "black egyptians" is cited in articles like the one I linked above as something he "got wrong". Did that writer even read his book?

What is this with black Egyptians? Answering the criticisms of fools is no substitute for answering criticism!

Quote from: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:16:21 pm

Or the "lack of widespread Egyptian settlements" argument, when in fact the vast bulk of his firrst book, when it's not talking about the 18th-19th century scholarship stuff, is in fact centered on the possibility of Hyksos settlements in Greece. And the Hyksos are categorically not Egyptians. Yet somehow they manage to write whole articles and books "debunking" him without ever mentioning the Hyksos at all. How can they not mention that at all when it's basically his central theory?

His central theory is that "the native population of Greece had initially been civilized by Egyptian and Phoenician colonists and that additional Near Eastern culture had been introduced to Greece by Greeks studying in Egypt and Southwest Asia. Moving beyond these prevailing models, Bernal proposes a Revised Ancient Model, which suggests that classical civilization in fact had deep roots in Afroasiatic cultures."

*EDIT
Mfw found out just now Bernal is an ancient academic dude born pre-War who graduated Harvard, Cambridge, Kings and Berkley
Ivory tower intellectuals strike again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 25, 2017, 12:41:30 pm

What's your beef with "Danaus as the founder of Argos" exactly? It's an established link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaus

In the stories, Argos was previously ruled by King "Pelasgus", and "Pelasgoi" was the Greek term for the pre-Greek population of the Aegean (aboriginals basically). So the legend is deliberately coding the predecessor king as a "pre-Greek" ruler. So Danaus becomes the king of Argos, superceding Pelasgus / the Pelasgoi. Which suggests heavily that the event was being relayed to listeners as the "civilizing" moment of the city. Also you have Homer's Illiad refering frequently to the Danaoi or Argives as words referring to all Greeks fighting against Troy. So any founding myth of Danaus/Argos is in fact a founding myth of Mycenaean culture itself.

The story also says he fought king "Aegyptus". Pelasgus/Pelasgoi, Danaus/Danaoi and Aegyptus/Aegyptoi suggest that the names of the kings in the legend are intended as stand-ins for different ethnic groups. So it suggests that while from Egypt they were considered distinct from ethnic Egyptians, and Bernal's theory here was that it recounts resettlement of semitic populations originating in the levantine via Egypt some time in the 14th-17th dynasty era (the semitic dynasties / Hyksos era).

There's also contemporary Egyptian evidence for the Danaoi people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenaean_Greece

Quote

Egyptian records mention a T(D)-n-j or Danaya (Tanaju) land for the first time in circa 1437 BC, during the reign of Pharaoh Thutmoses III (r. 1479–1425 BC). This land is geographically defined in an inscription from the reign of Amenhotep III (r. circa 1390–1352 BC), where a number of Danaya cities are mentioned, which cover the largest part of southern mainland Greece.[16] Among them, cities such as Mycenae, Nauplion and Thebes have been identified with certainty. Danaya has been equated with the ethnonym Danaoi (Greek: Δαναοί), the name of the mythical dynasty that ruled in the region of Argos, also used as an ethnonym for the Greek people by Homer.

Another link is the family tree of Danaus according to Greek sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaus

- His great grandfather was King Epaphus of Egypt while the second-last Hyksos king was Apophis.
- His father was Belus, the hellenized version of the Hyksos' main God, Baal.
- His cousin was Cadmus, Phoenecian founder of Thebes (which was definitely part of the "Danaya" nation according to Egyptian sources)

It doesn't make any sense for the Greeks to make up that their founding hero was a descendent of an Egyptian king with the same name as the last strong Hyksos ruler. Not if the point of it all was to "respect" a supposed Egyptian heritage, as the Egyptians despised the Hyksos and tried to eradicate any memory of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 25, 2017, 02:41:03 pm

In more contemporary European news:  it's very very likely that the Catalonian Govern will try  to proclaim a Republic tomorrow https://www.instagram.com/p/BarQvh7hsIV/?taken-by=carlespuigdemont

In my heart of hearts I wish them luck and success.  My cooler head tends to agree with the spokesman of the Basque Nationalist Party, who saw that path as too risky, as declaring independence only to have it recogniced by noone and losing control of the regional institutions in the process is pretty sterile.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 25, 2017, 02:57:09 pm

Plot twist: Catalonians were Phoenicians the whole time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 25, 2017, 04:09:46 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 25, 2017, 02:41:03 pm

In more contemporary European news:  it's very very likely that the Catalonian Govern will try  to proclaim a Republic tomorrow https://www.instagram.com/p/BarQvh7hsIV/?taken-by=carlespuigdemont

In my heart of hearts I wish them luck and success.  My cooler head tends to agree with the spokesman of the Basque Nationalist Party, who saw that path as too risky, as declaring independence only to have it recogniced by noone and losing control of the regional institutions in the process is pretty sterile.

I think the catalonian govern came to the conclusion that Castille is going to dissolve catalonian autonomy anyway so they might as well make as much noise as possible and make the central government look as bad as they can.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 25, 2017, 05:00:21 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on October 25, 2017, 04:09:46 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 25, 2017, 02:41:03 pm

In more contemporary European news:  it's very very likely that the Catalonian Govern will try  to proclaim a Republic tomorrow https://www.instagram.com/p/BarQvh7hsIV/?taken-by=carlespuigdemont

In my heart of hearts I wish them luck and success.  My cooler head tends to agree with the spokesman of the Basque Nationalist Party, who saw that path as too risky, as declaring independence only to have it recogniced by noone and losing control of the regional institutions in the process is pretty sterile.

I think the catalonian govern came to the conclusion that Castille is going to dissolve catalonian autonomy anyway so they might as well make as much noise as possible and make the central government look as bad as they can.

Yes, I can see why they would think that, as the hardliners in the ruling PP party do want that no matter what.

I think this situation could have been solved very easily ten years ago... but spiraled out of control two months ago. Maybe even before that.  There are people on both sides of the debate wanting to sit down and talk... but it's unlikely that it will happen due to the underlying pressure.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 26, 2017, 04:07:33 pm

https://www.csis.org/analysis/silence-damned-catalonias-separation-spain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 26, 2017, 04:48:14 pm

Relevant. (https://i.redd.it/5bvgmeclf5qz.jpg)

Also relevant. (https://i.imgur.com/R2iDBDp.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 26, 2017, 07:02:57 pm

glhf Catalan but playerSpain seems to have the pop advantage

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2017, 01:47:22 am

I wish them the best of luck.   But this is likely to be messy for everyone involved.

Like I have said previously, I think all the main actors are driven now by what their environment wants, rather than what they think. Its unlikely that the Catalonian president is unaware than an unilateral independence with no army and no international recognition isn't going to last long.  On the other, even dumbass Rajoy is probably aware that doing the 155 is plunging into Terra Incognita, and that breaking an Autonomy Statute brings you thirty years of bad luck.  Even so, I think we have been heading this way for a while. The event horizon was crossed months, maybe years ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 27, 2017, 08:42:26 am

So this morning, Catalonian parliament voted on a motion submitted by the pro-independence parties to declare independance.

In protest, the members of opposition parties PP, Socialist Party, and Ciudadanos left the parliament session and did not vote.
The remaining members of parliament voted anonimously, and with 70 votes in favour (it needed 68 votes), the motion passed and independence has been declared.

Meanwhile, Spanish prime minister Rajoy expects to get senate approval any moment now to intervene in Catalonia.


.... Here's to hoping people will keep their heads cool enough to resolve this without resorting to lethal force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:49:24 am

Couldn't they have made a bigger statement by staying and voting against?

And yeah, last thing we want to see are tanks rolling through Catalonia. I doubt it'll get quite that far, but still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2017, 09:32:11 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:49:24 am

Couldn't they have made a bigger statement by staying and voting against?

And yeah, last thing we want to see are tanks rolling through Catalonia. I doubt it'll get quite that far, but still.

I don't doubt it will get that far. It's the only thing the PP knows to do (if it wasn't they could have prevented all this by actually talking with the Catalonians ten years ago), and so far the EU has not lifted a finger in this drama.

Even so, visca la República. I wish the Catalonian Republic luck and success.  If nothing else their stand has been exemplary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 27, 2017, 12:13:08 pm

Well... shit.

Stay safe, Catalonia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:18:46 pm

UK says that they will not recognize Catalan independence. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41783238) Their reasoning is that it was done via a vote that was deemed illegal and not well founded in law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 27, 2017, 12:21:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:18:46 pm

UK says that they will not recognize Catalan independence. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41783238) Their reasoning is that it was done via a vote that was deemed illegal and not well founded in law.

Ironically the vote that let to brexit was only an advisory referendum so had zero legal binding as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:30:51 pm

And neither was the Scottish independence referendum which was more of a reaction to brexit than anything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 27, 2017, 12:35:05 pm

Quote from: Antioch on October 27, 2017, 12:21:33 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:18:46 pm

UK says that they will not recognize Catalan independence. (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41783238) Their reasoning is that it was done via a vote that was deemed illegal and not well founded in law.

Ironically the vote that let to brexit was only an advisory referendum so had zero legal binding as well.

Less ironic than rain on your wedding day; the Brexit referendum itself was not actively illegal under the laws of the UK or the EU.  Same with the Scottish independence referendum, assuming you're discussing the 2014 one that was actually carried out; if Westminster had prohibited an independence referendum and the SNP carried through regardless, that may have been otherwise, but as it stands, it is not particularly ironic or hypocritical. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 27, 2017, 01:00:56 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:30:51 pm

And neither was the Scottish independence referendum which was more of a reaction to brexit than anything else.

Wrong on a number of levels :P Scot's* have been wanting out since 1707.

David Cameron and Alex Salmond made the Scottish referendum a legally binding one with the Edinburgh agreement before the referendum, so there was some force behind it.

*okay fine, some Scot's

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 27, 2017, 01:04:14 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 12:30:51 pm

And neither was the Scottish independence referendum which was more of a reaction to brexit than anything else.

umm, are you sure you're not mixing up the timeline there?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:12:20 pm

There were RUMORS of brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 27, 2017, 01:25:41 pm

So... literally treason or what, Puigdemont et al.?

What charges could Spain press here?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 27, 2017, 01:26:44 pm

Yeah, illegal =/ not legally binding. Whether a vote is legally binding or not just means whether  the government has to follow the result or not. For example, since the Brexit vote wasn't legally binding, the Leave vote could have lost with 99-1 % and the government could still have declared they where leaving it if they wanted. Just like when he Swedish voted against right-side traffic but the government still decided to change it afterwards.

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:12:20 pm

There were RUMORS of brexit.

No mate, the only impact the EU had on the Scottish referendum was Labour and Tories threatening Scotland that they wouldn't be able to remain in the EU if of the Scouted from the UK. UKIP and their leave EU agenda was barely on the scene yet and certainly didn't seem like a possibility to be taken seriously.

---

In Swedish news: Police told SOS Alarm when asked to reinforce ambulance personal on the site of an axe-assault (ambance responders are not allowed to approach if the perp is still on the scene); "well, she'll just have to die then".

Interviewed police chief guy chooses to focus on the inappropriateness of saying such things and apologising for that instead of talking about how it only happened in the first place because there's only one police car per 4 communes in this area (they province of Värmland/Warmia) and it was physically impossible for the car to be present, since it was 1.5 hours away. Because we can't talk for a single moment about how the law forces in Sweden is in complete dissolution, can we?

Couldn't find a source in English, but here is the Swedish television web news article on it (I first found out through the 19:30 news tonight): https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/polisoperatoren-nar-ambulansen-ber-om-assistans-da-far-hon- (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/polisoperatoren-nar-ambulansen-ber-om-assistans-da-far-hon-)

When the police actually arrived 90 minutes later the paramedics had already approached the scene regardless. The victim later died in the hospital.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:37:16 pm

Yes you're right it didn't have anything to do with brexit, I'm being silly because meds.

Varmland/Warmia, is that like out in the sticks? Like Rural rural?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2017, 01:47:01 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 27, 2017, 01:25:41 pm

So... literally treason or what, Puigdemont et al.?

What charges could Spain press here?

Sedition for sure. Applies who those who rise "publically and turbulently"   against the law. Maximum sentence is 15 years

They'll likely try to stick him with rebellion, which is the same but with violence.  Now, since there wasnt, they shouldnt be able to make it stick, but separation of powers is simply not a thing in Spain, so who knows. It wouldnt be the first time Spanish tribunals do bullshit sentences that latter get thrown at the EU tribunals... years later.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 27, 2017, 01:53:09 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:12:20 pm

There were RUMORS of brexit.

David Camerom broached the Brexit referendum back in 2012, yes. Which was before the Scottish vote.

However, the SNP campaigned on the basis of a Scottish independence referendum back when they stood for election in 2007.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 27, 2017, 01:53:18 pm

Well, either way, from Brexit to Trump, Catastrophe is now in full swing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:58:26 pm

Quote from: Reelya on October 27, 2017, 01:53:09 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:12:20 pm

There were RUMORS of brexit.

David Camerom broached the Brexit referendum back in 2012, yes. Which was before the Scottish vote.

However, the SNP campaigned on the basis of a Scottish independence referendum back when they stood for election in 2007.

I might be remembering the 2012 thing.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2017, 01:47:01 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 27, 2017, 01:25:41 pm

So... literally treason or what, Puigdemont et al.?

What charges could Spain press here?

Sedition for sure. Applies who those who rise "publically and turbulently"   against the law. Maximum sentence is 15 years

They'll likely try to stick him with rebellion, which is the same but with violence.  Now, since there wasnt, they shouldnt be able to make it stick, but separation of powers is simply not a thing in Spain, so who knows. It wouldnt be the first time Spanish tribunals do bullshit sentences that latter get thrown at the EU tribunals... years later.

How the heck is 'turbulently' defined in law? Like 'energetically'? I've never heard of the word turbulent used in that fashion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2017, 02:16:59 pm

TBH you'd have to ask the guys who wrote the law in 1995. That being said, the Spanish term ("tumultuoso" ->"tumulto") is defined as "mutiny, noisy gathering by a crowd ("Motín, confusión, alboroto producido por una multitud.")

TBH it would technically qualify as they have called for demonstrations in defense of independence, which, with independence being illegal under Spanish legislation), which could be regarded as "tumults"

http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Penal/lo10-1995.l2t22.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 02:24:59 pm

Sounds like a somewhat ambigous definition of riot, which is a word that people can sometimes misuse. The use of the word 'turbulently' just sounds a little odd in english to the layman since it's not used in that way.

edit: Actually, that would fit a more archaic use of the word since the meaning used by Spain matches the older latin word more closely than the modern english (https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=LYjzWZyPFNWujwOmipugCA&q=turbulent+definition&oq=turbulently+d&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0i10k1l10.2835.5749.0.6748.15.14.0.0.0.0.175.1368.7j6.14.0..2..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.14.1451.6..0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i20i264k1j0i20i263i264i266k1j0i20i266k1j0i30k1j0i10i30k1.84.RgvMGTCg-QA). Makes sense since Spanish has Latin roots while English has Germanic roots, but it absorbed a lot of latin stuff too.

The definition of mutiny though is 'an open rebellion against authority or a refusal to obey the orders of an authority. (particularily applied to sailors and soldiers, but could be used anywhere)', which certainly fits what the Catalonians are doing, they're rebelling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 27, 2017, 03:10:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:37:16 pm

Yes you're right it didn't have anything to do with brexit, I'm being silly because meds.

Varmland/Warmia, is that like out in the sticks? Like Rural rural?

It's a bit out, but not rural rural relative to Swedish conditions: (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Sverigekarta-Landskap_V%C3%A4rmland.svg/450px-Sverigekarta-Landskap_V%C3%A4rmland.svg.png)

This isn't something that happened only because they're "out in the sticks", though. The police in Sweden is practically falling apart (I've ranted here before about the consequences of the horribly misguided attempt at reorganisation they started 5 half a decade or so back) and can't cover even more populated areas - I remember linking here when a school, after a burglary, were told that no officers would show up and to "look for evidence and put it in bags" themselves. That same no-help scenario has repeated itself several times in the media since then, at that.

Also I realised in hindsight I mixed it's latino-English name up with the Polish province of Warmia, the correct latini-englishisation ought to be something like Wermalandia or Varmalandia or similar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

I can also reveal that it is lovely, sirs, lovely, in Värmland. Well. While the Law remains. It is not terribly rural, not by local measures. Not enough to excuse this horrid scandal.

Yes, the police crisis continues, while the courts are also being rather rickety and unreliable. The state seems to have forgotten that its existance relies entirely on the ability to execute its power and its laws.
I shall flog another chipped old hobby-horse of mine, and state that a large part of this problem in particular is yet another disasterous consequence of capitol politics; since most offices of importance are run in Stockholm (the capitol of the country), and run entirely by Stockholmers, the nation has been reduced to Stockholm & Adjoining Bits of No Importance. They cannot see beyond the needs of the main city, they do not understand how consolidating all power directly to the centre is causing terrible harm to a country that is much larger than it looks on their maps, or the few glimpses they might catch from the window of an aeroplane.
In their mind, the provinces do not need full police coverage. Surely. Hardly anyone lives there, do they? Perhaps a few red-necked knuckle-heads that did not have the sense to move, who drink too much, drive too much and have disagreeable opinions. So, it makes perfect sense to consolidate all administration, and most of the national assets, to the City. Of course, it does not actually make sense to put direct responsibility of overseeing a particular function on someone that does not live there, and never visits.

One wonders if it is not about time to begin forming militias. There is precident, mind. There used to be local law enforcement. While it was not perfect, it was there. I doubt the capitol would notice, nor have the power to put a stop to it if they did.

That would be authoritarian.

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 07:15:50 pm

Is the police department in Sweden like, federalized or something? Here it's all local (city/town based, with county sheriffs), though state based police do exist. Federal 'police' as they exist are the FBI, Immigration Customs Enforcement, ATF.

Just seems like a really strange thing to weaken police forces like that. No wonder Sweden has so many problems with immigrants, there's nobody around to enforce the law if they cause problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2017, 07:16:16 pm

would you say the country has stockholm syndrome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2017, 07:44:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

You mean by conquest or would you prefer we just programmed the death bots to eat everyone's brains and make an overmind?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 08:05:37 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 07:15:50 pm

Is the police department in Sweden like, federalized or something? Here it's all local (city/town based, with county sheriffs), though state based police do exist. Federal 'police' as they exist are the FBI, Immigration Customs Enforcement, ATF.

Just seems like a really strange thing to weaken police forces like that. No wonder Sweden has so many problems with immigrants, there's nobody around to enforce the law if they cause problems.

To a degree, yes. It has been since large reforms took place in the 1960's. Before then, it was carried out by more localised districts. While this hampered co-operation and joint administration, of course, it ment that the communes that could muster a local police force did so. What has happened recently is that it has been federalised and centralised further, into large regional blocks, all run centrally from the capital administration.

A federal police corps makes sense on paper for a small country. However, countries tend to be much bigger than they look on paper, as it were. The United States of America is, of course, a very large country with very specialised needs throughout the different states and counties, but the principle is the same: it would hamper police work greatly if they were all run and managed from Washington D.C., with lesser insight in those particular local needs than necessary.

Of course, this is a large part why there are severe immigration difficulties. The reason why there is a large, growing segment of illegal residents in the country (many of whom commit crime, many of whom are victims to crime) is because the police are not capable of apprehending and deporting them reliably. That, coupled with the much too lenient sentences produced by the courts (sometimes fuelled by misguided passion than concerns for safety, seems to be the trend), has contributed greatly to the difficulties. Along, of course, with the strange aversion of recent years amongst the elected governments to exorcise authority. Well, well...

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 27, 2017, 07:16:16 pm

would you say the country has stockholm syndrome

Heh. Yes, to a degree, a lot of local potentates have been far too eager over the years to listen wholeheartedly to plans from the capitol. One thing to note is that the Stockholm Syndrome is somewhat of a misunderstanding. The kidnap-victims of that case (a botched bank robbery) were not particularly sympathetic towards the robbers, as much as they were unsympathetic to how the police disregarded their safety. The idea that they effectively joined sides with the robbers is apocryphical, but a good story always endures. It makes the analogy far more apt, in a manner of speaking.

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

It was in jest, naturally. That idea would be impossible, unprecedented and quite foolish.

Nonetheless, I disagree. If it would work, it would be fantastic if mankind could and would join together into a greater whole, a global state, perhaps beyond, that worked together for the better of everyone. This, however, rarely happens. And when a region is treated poorly and not given its fair share of the agreement, it is no wonder that it would rather be alone than in bad company. Further, I believe a degree of lines will always be necessary, as long as there are men who will not play nicely, and take more and give less than their share. It is an ideal, one worth contemplating but one that would not survive its construction; it is much too cracked to stand.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

That's why you opened up your house for anyone to sleep in, your fridge for anyone to eat from, and your yard for anyone to park in, right?

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 07:15:50 pm

Is the police department in Sweden like, federalized or something? Here it's all local (city/town based, with county sheriffs), though state based police do exist. Federal 'police' as they exist are the FBI, Immigration Customs Enforcement, ATF.

Just seems like a really strange thing to weaken police forces like that. No wonder Sweden has so many problems with immigrants, there's nobody around to enforce the law if they cause problems.

I'm not entirely certain because I neither completely understand the American system not have a super clear image of our own, but I think you could say, while keeping in mind the size differences between the US and Sweden (No such things as states here, for example), that we used to have a fairly decentralised police system. For example, one of the goals of the reconstruction was to lower the amount of agencies the police was made up of. Now we have a very centralized system instead.

Another example of the police crisis is that made the headlines recently is that during the reorganisation they wanted to make the police "more efficient" by decreasing the amount of specialised crime units, moving for example murder, assaults and attacks, sexual violence and so on into one "violent crime" group, presumably under the genius notion that if there were more police in one group more crimes would be investigated. Of course, this only led to "lesser" violent crimes such as rape and sexual assault being put on the back burner in favour of focusing the entire workforce on grave violence such as murders, shootings, gang wars and such. So now it's even more pointless to go to the police if you were raped because the police won't even have time to look at your case.

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

I can also reveal that it is lovely, sirs, lovely, in Värmland. Well. While the Law remains. It is not terribly rural, not by local measures. Not enough to excuse this horrid scandal.

Yes, the police crisis continues, while the courts are also being rather rickety and unreliable. The state seems to have forgotten that its existance relies entirely on the ability to execute its power and its laws.
I shall flog another chipped old hobby-horse of mine, and state that a large part of this problem in particular is yet another disasterous consequence of capitol politics; since most offices of importance are run in Stockholm (the capitol of the country), and run entirely by Stockholmers, the nation has been reduced to Stockholm & Adjoining Bits of No Importance. They cannot see beyond the needs of the main city, they do not understand how consolidating all power directly to the centre is causing terrible harm to a country that is much larger than it looks on their maps, or the few glimpses they might catch from the window of an aeroplane.
In their mind, the provinces do not need full police coverage. Surely. Hardly anyone lives there, do they? Perhaps a few red-necked knuckle-heads that did not have the sense to move, who drink too much, drive too much and have disagreeable opinions. So, it makes perfect sense to consolidate all administration, and most of the national assets, to the City. Of course, it does not actually make sense to put direct responsibility of overseeing a particular function on someone that does not live there, and never visits.

One wonders if it is not about time to begin forming militias. There is precident, mind. There used to be local law enforcement. While it was not perfect, it was there. I doubt the capitol would notice, nor have the power to put a stop to it if they did.

That would be authoritarian.

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

http://www.gd.se/kultur/katarina-ostholm-hela-sverige-kan-inte-leva-vi-har-inte-rad-med-alla-bidragsslukande-stodomraden (http://www.gd.se/kultur/katarina-ostholm-hela-sverige-kan-inte-leva-vi-har-inte-rad-med-alla-bidragsslukande-stodomraden)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 08:27:56 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

That's why you opened up your house for anyone to sleep in, your fridge for anyone to eat from, and your yard for anyone to park in, right?

That's a fallacy and you know it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

Quote from: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

http://www.gd.se/kultur/katarina-ostholm-hela-sverige-kan-inte-leva-vi-har-inte-rad-med-alla-bidragsslukande-stodomraden (http://www.gd.se/kultur/katarina-ostholm-hela-sverige-kan-inte-leva-vi-har-inte-rad-med-alla-bidragsslukande-stodomraden)

*reads article in english via google translate*

Ah yes, that rural/urban divide.

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 08:27:56 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

That's why you opened up your house for anyone to sleep in, your fridge for anyone to eat from, and your yard for anyone to park in, right?

That's a fallacy and you know it.

It's a reference to the schengen border stuff that the EU has.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on October 27, 2017, 08:38:20 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 08:27:56 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

That's why you opened up your house for anyone to sleep in, your fridge for anyone to eat from, and your yard for anyone to park in, right?

That's a fallacy and you know it.

It's a reference to the schengen border stuff that the EU has.

That doesn't really have any effect on whether or not it's a fallacy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:44:32 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 08:27:56 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 27, 2017, 08:22:14 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

That's why you opened up your house for anyone to sleep in, your fridge for anyone to eat from, and your yard for anyone to park in, right?

That's a fallacy and you know it.

It's a joke at your expense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 27, 2017, 08:48:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

There are immense differences in authority and respect for the provinces of a unitary state and the states of a federation. As we're now seeing in Catalonia. The US government doesn't have the authority to dissolve a state government in perpetuity, ever. At best, an armed rebellion leads to temporary military administration and then reconstruction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 08:49:21 pm

It sounded rather like the dishonest metaphors used by a lot of pundits.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 27, 2017, 08:48:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

There are immense differences in authority and respect for the provinces of a unitary state and the states of a federation. As we're now seeing in Catalonia. The US government doesn't have the authority to dissolve a state government in perpetuity, ever. At best, an armed rebellion leads to temporary military administration and then reconstruction.

That's why federalism is a more preferable setup.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 28, 2017, 01:29:02 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 27, 2017, 08:48:34 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm

Well, provinces are equivalent to states, right? When you boil it down, they're both adminstrative regions.

There are immense differences in authority and respect for the provinces of a unitary state and the states of a federation. As we're now seeing in Catalonia. The US government doesn't have the authority to dissolve a state government in perpetuity, ever. At best, an armed rebellion leads to temporary military administration and then reconstruction.

Er, technically neither does the Spanish goverment. Cat. electioms the 21st of december according to Rajoy. Even he's aware that making it longer would risk getting an actual armed rebellion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 28, 2017, 01:32:52 am

My understanding from what you've been saying in this thread is that he could under the Spanish constitution risk armed rebellion and just dissolve the legal entity of Catalonia "forever". Sure there are practical limits like pissing everyone off so much they all try to kill you, that's true for any country. But you told us that a lot of these problems stem from Spain being a pseudo-federation instead of a real one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 28, 2017, 01:57:59 am

Quote

My understanding from what you've been saying in this thread is that he could under the Spanish constitution risk armed rebellion and just dissolve the legal entity of Catalonia "forever". Sure there are practical limits like pissing everyone off so much they all try to kill you, that's true for any country.

Mmmmm... it wasn't my intention to imply that. It's more the other way around.  They cannot abolish an autonomy "de jure" forever, but in practice, they could prolong an exception status as much as they wanted, legally speaking.

Quote

But you told us that a lot of these problems stem from Spain being a pseudo-federation instead of a real one.

In no small measure they are. Most moderate nationalists would be happier with more devolved autonomy.  Which is what the PP has been undermining for the last 10 years. Hence the current conflict. 
As to the exact conditions and how it compares... I'm not fully aware about how much devolved autonomy US states actually have, and how it compares...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 11:09:58 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 11:09:58 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 30, 2017, 11:21:25 am

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 12:55:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 11:09:58 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

Are worth about as much as the copper they're engraved upon. Principles are nice, but pragmatism is more important.

Quote from: smjjames on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 am

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

Redwall's post seems to imply a total dearth of borders.

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2017, 11:21:25 am

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

It's not exactly a new revelation. Does it come as a surprise to you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:01:06 pm

I'd have to say it would be best to just put the unwashed to good use as biofuel.

You think I'm joking, right? I'm not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 01:09:09 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:01:06 pm

I'd have to say it would be best to just put the unwashed to good use as biofuel.

You think I'm joking, right? I'm not.

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 30, 2017, 01:14:34 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 12:55:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 am

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 11:09:58 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on October 27, 2017, 07:32:49 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on October 27, 2017, 06:57:02 pm

Catalonia is a fascinating series of events. One worries, but it is terribly intriguing. At this point, it is difficult to blame the Catalonians for wanting to manage their own affairs. They really ought to have been given a better lot than this.
_{Perhaps Geatish independence could also be an idea? Dare we dream?}

Noting good comes of drawing lines between people. We should be coming together and helping each other not carving out everyone's own little bit of us and them.

Borders are necessary to maintain the prosperity of rich parts of the world and the affluence of those that live in those states. As a resident of a Western country, I for one do not want our borders opened to whoever wants to come. That will lead to a reduction in living standards as millions of poor, uneducated, often illiterate people arrive and drive down wages and drive up crime and lower property values.

*AHEM* The words on the Statue of Liberty?

Are worth about as much as the copper they're engraved upon. Principles are nice, but pragmatism is more important.

Quote from: smjjames on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 am

I agree that there is common sense in not having completely uncontrolled wholly free flow immigration, but I don't think anybody (except maybe the most far-left people) that seriously suggests that.

Redwall's post seems to imply a total dearth of borders.

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2017, 11:21:25 am

lol @ imaginary lines are necessary to keep the unwashed from devaluing my shit bravo for the cojones to actually say that man wow

It's not exactly a new revelation. Does it come as a surprise to you?

This is basically what I thought would happen. People love taking peoples comments and taking them to the most extreme interpretation possible. I literally just said that people need to get along better and not be divided in a 'A house divided can not stand kind of way' and people take it as me wanting to invite all of India into their house.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 01:28:22 pm

Perhaps that speaks more to the lack of precision in your chosen words.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:30:05 pm

Quote from: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 01:09:09 pm

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 30, 2017, 01:36:00 pm

Quote from: Pwnzerfaust on October 30, 2017, 01:28:22 pm

Perhaps that speaks more to the lack of precision in your chosen words.

Or the assumptions of the reader.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 30, 2017, 01:36:53 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:30:05 pm

Quote from: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 01:09:09 pm

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

I agree, it sounded more like it was about gleeful murder.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 30, 2017, 01:46:38 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 30, 2017, 01:36:53 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:30:05 pm

Quote from: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 01:09:09 pm

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

I agree, it sounded more like it was about gleeful murder.

Nah, hopeful xenophobia. Unwashed is undefined, but one can assume they likely didn’t include themselves in what they meant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:57:21 pm

I'm not unwashed, of course, I keep very clean. Anyone else is fair game.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 02:25:17 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:30:05 pm

Quote from: Trekkin on October 30, 2017, 01:09:09 pm

No, I don't think you're joking. It's a ludicrous idea to be sure, but a very common one throughout history when people have let themselves conflate contempt with intellectualism.

Who said anything about intellectualism?

No one yet, but people who maintain that Those People Should All Die have historically put forth the argument that they are intellectually superior to Those People when pressed for a reason to justify genocide. Often, it's used to explain how Those People have no future anyway, so killing them en masse is hardly murder and in fact better for the Real People who might actually make something of themselves and so a good thing on balance.

Basically, when people look around their basement and realize they're the smartest (read: only) person they've seen today, they start crying for the blood of those weird people outside and calling themselves smart and sophisticated and resolute for doing so. There's always someone doing it, and proudly. We're always one hue and cry away from genocide.

So no, I'm not surprised, or shocked, or possessed of the belief you're joking. Just profoundly disappointed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 30, 2017, 02:39:53 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 30, 2017, 01:57:21 pm

I'm not unwashed, of course, I keep very clean. Anyone else is fair game.

Ah, the good old "every human except me should die."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 30, 2017, 03:39:24 pm

Puigdemont and 5 of his ministers have fled to Brussels, and according to Catalonian media, will apply for political asylum in Belgium, to escape standing trial for rebellion, which can get them 30 (to 40?) years in prison.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/catalaanse-leider-puigdemont-en-vijf-ministers-in-brussel-voor-politiek-asiel~a4526410/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 31, 2017, 06:47:13 am

Redwall's post didnt sound like "Abolish all borders" to me. I read it as "People should try to get along better rather than marking out their lines in the sand and saying "MINE! all MINE! NOBODY ELSE can tell me what do do with it""

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2017, 07:06:02 am

People: We don't want to be governed by Government any more, we want to govern ourselves. We're holding this democratic vote to see if we have enough support among the People to declare independence from them.
Government: No you won't! *sends in military police*
People: *900 people are injured*
Redwall: "You People really should try and get along better with Government and help them out. Nothing good comes from drawing lines in the sand."
900 injured People: ??? ??? ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 31, 2017, 09:13:21 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2017, 07:06:02 am

People: We don't want to be governed by Government any more, we want to govern ourselves. We're holding this democratic vote to see if we have enough support among the People to declare independence from them.
Government: No you won't! *sends in military police*
People: *900 people are injured*
Redwall: "You People really should try and get along better with Government and help them out. Nothing good comes from drawing lines in the sand."
900 injured People: ??? ??? ???

Okay people, stop using this shitty debate tactic. taking a general quote out of context and assuming it means a specific thing in a extreme form. It is a really annoying thing that people do and its ticking me off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 31, 2017, 09:59:53 am

Maybe try framing your arguments better?  :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2017, 10:03:35 am

How is that out of context of the discussion? The discussion was about Catalonia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on October 31, 2017, 10:18:28 am

Quote from: Maximum Spin on October 31, 2017, 09:59:53 am

Maybe try framing your arguments better?  :-\

Because it wasn't an argument, just a statement.

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2017, 10:03:35 am

How is that out of context of the discussion? The discussion was about Catalonia.

Because I never specified any specific group and you just assumed the most convenient interpretation to attempt to discredit my statement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2017, 10:35:42 am

Ah, so you just happened to say something stupid completely apropos nothing, and that it looks exactly like something said in the context of the Catalonia discussion is just pure coincidence. Okay, that's cool. I hear you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 10:46:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on October 30, 2017, 03:39:24 pm

Puigdemont and 5 of his ministers have fled to Brussels, and according to Catalonian media, will apply for political asylum in Belgium, to escape standing trial for rebellion, which can get them 30 (to 40?) years in prison.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/catalaanse-leider-puigdemont-en-vijf-ministers-in-brussel-voor-politiek-asiel~a4526410/

He's also saying that he's not applying for asylum and escaping justice, just trying to speak freely, and keeping his options open. Sounds like he is trying to not look like Yanukovich and escape justice whole at the same time abandoning his country. Trying to balance the optics of it.

@scriver: He was complaining about Madrid choosing to create further division rather than trying to work with the Catalans to address their grievances. It just ended up being said in a way that got misunderstood, I don't think he was talking about borders here neccesarily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 31, 2017, 10:59:25 am

Our minister of immigration, who is from the nationalist separatist flemish party invited him as a PR coup.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:05:17 am

I had seen that actually. Thought it was a little odd that Belgium would offer asylum since Brussels (in Belgium!) is the seat of the EU and the EU wants nothing to do with the Catalan crisis.

I also saw somewhere that a Belgian MP (I think it was Belgian) was doing some resolution to allow separatists of EU countries to stay in the EU, or something like that. Seemed like a preemptive move in case Belgium split into two.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on October 31, 2017, 11:19:39 am

Quote from: Sheb on October 31, 2017, 10:59:25 am

Our minister of immigration, who is from the nationalist separatist flemish party invited him as a PR coup.

lol those does exist ? Nationalist separatist flemish? :D What does that leaves you with? The Empire of Eastern Belgium, captiale city Herstappe, population 80, no immigrant allowed ?
I like people who think big yet have reasonable expectations :') Hell by inviting Puidgemont and five other dudes, you're adding a substential population growth, careful with uncontrolled immigration there.

At least there's not a lot of people to convince.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 11:28:55 am

How about Cornish nationalism while we're at it. And the people who want a Yorkshire parliament are good too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:30:25 am

It's a joke outside of Belgium, yeah, but in Belgium, the whole Flanders and Walloon stuff is pretty serious thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium#Provinces

Note that Brussels is almost, ALMOST, right smack in the middle of the division line between the Flanders and Walloonian regions.  Dunno if any suburbs go past that line.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 11:31:06 am

So ... the Brussels Wall gets built? Get your passport stamped to pass through the Waffle Curtain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:34:33 am

Or maybe make Brussels into a city state with autonomy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on October 31, 2017, 11:35:17 am

I love that so much. This is why we have a full repertoire of belgian jokes in french culture.
Never change belgium, never change :'D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on October 31, 2017, 11:35:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:05:17 am

I had seen that actually. Thought it was a little odd that Belgium would offer asylum since Brussels (in Belgium!) is the seat of the EU and the EU wants nothing to do with the Catalan crisis.

I also saw somewhere that a Belgian MP (I think it was Belgian) was doing some resolution to allow separatists of EU countries to stay in the EU, or something like that. Seemed like a preemptive move in case Belgium split into two.

I'll just copy paste something my dad wrote on FB, because it sums up the situation a bit.

Quote

Why did Catalan separatist Puidgemont chose Belgium for his exile?

Theo Franken, a Belgian minister, "invited" Puidgemont. Franken is Secretary for asylum and migration and is from the flemish separatist N-VA party. Within that party, he is a popular man, who has become one of Belgium's most popular politicians.

He has built his popularity on hard right populism. This includes frank islamophobia and racism, repeated disregard of both the ECHR and belgian courts for his treatment of refugees, and attendance at commemorations of Flemish Nazi collaborators. He looks the part, too: he's still got the shaven skull he first sported as a young skinhead.

The N-VA is the main party in Belgium's federal government and has developed a taste for it. This puts it in a quandary, since its origins are nationalist separatists. For many of its supporters, it has sold its soul for power (Jan Jambon, the N-VA interior minister, ruled out a flemish independence referendum a couple of weeks ago, in part because he'd probably loose it). So the move with Puidgemont is a master stroke: it's red meat to the base, weakens the already weak federalists in the government, and reminds the youthful prime minister (the hapless francophone Charles Michel of the French-speaking liberal right federalist MR party), who's boss.

So it's not even the Belgian government (who officially hasn't said a thing), but a minister once more acting on his own, blindsiding the PM for political gain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on October 31, 2017, 11:48:03 am

Quote from: Sheb on October 31, 2017, 11:35:52 am

snip

...Jan Jambon? Seriously? That's his real name? :'D Tell me he's fat and I'm losing it
This has to be parody. I totally imagine that as a scenario for a satire.
A farmer called Jan Jambon declares the village of eastern herstappe an independant empire. THenhis cattle spend their time arguing about if black sheeps are really citizen sheeps, can't agree and split into two smaller countries

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 31, 2017, 11:49:25 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 11:31:06 am

So ... the Brussels Wall gets built? Get your passport stamped to pass through the Waffle Curtain.

Or they just fight a brutal civil war that ends in one side or the other getting ethnically cleansed out of the city.  Tradition, you know. 

But yes, the Flemish are one of the few groups within the EU that are both sympathetic to Catalonia (being a separatist party themselves) and in a position to affect government policy due to strong voter returns.  Hence, Belgium ended up being one of the only two European countries that didn't completely dismiss Catalan independence out of hand; the ruling Walloon party (Reformist Movement/MR) only rules because their coalition at present include three Flemish parties, including the N-VA that just apparently blindsided the MR, and can't afford the risk that Catalan independence will break the fragile coalition. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:55:22 am

@cathar: It's a Dutch name.... I'm sure French has names that sound silly to others.

Anyhow, bbc article http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41819940 He's said that he'd accept the results of the snap election, but wonders if the government would abide by the results since chances are high that it'll end up with a similar composition. The Spanish government apparently said that he could take part in the fresh polls, I think. Also, he said that he'll return to Spain if the government gives him some guarantees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on October 31, 2017, 11:59:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:55:22 am

@cathar: It's a Dutch name.... I'm sure French has names that sound silly to others.

Jambon means Ham. Calling someone a jambon means he needs to lose weight.
"Prendre quelqu'un pour un jambon" is an idiom to say "to take someone for an idiot".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 12:13:31 pm

Oh I get it now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 12:21:33 pm

By George, he's got it! The rain in Spain falls mainly on Catalan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 12:26:11 pm

I don't know French or Dutch, not sure why you seem to be semi-mocking me for missing the joke initially :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 12:40:08 pm

...actually Catalonia is pretty dry and warm, hence it's popularity as a tourist destination. The rain in Spain falls mainly in the northern coast, from Galicia to the Basque Country

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 01:27:49 pm

Yeah but you can't sing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk) "The rain in Spain falls mainly in the northern coast, from Galicia to the Basque Country".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 01:33:18 pm

If you sing it to the Super Mario tune you can.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 31, 2017, 01:33:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 11:55:22 am

@cathar: It's a Dutch name.... I'm sure French has names that sound silly to others.

Anyhow, bbc article http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41819940 He's said that he'd accept the results of the snap election, but wonders if the government would abide by the results since chances are high that it'll end up with a similar composition. The Spanish government apparently said that he could take part in the fresh polls, I think. Also, he said that he'll return to Spain if the government gives him some guarantees.

Rajoy said Puigdemont can take part so long as he isn't in prison, which probably meant he'll be in prison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 01:39:09 pm

Still, given that things won't have cooled down much (if any, and weather nonwithstanding) by December 21st, there is a high chance of Madrid not getting the result they'd prefer, which is a government that doesn't have the number of nationalists to declare another independence or continue what they were doing.

I can imagine having to do it twice would be quite the farce. As Puidgemont said, he is willing to accept the results, but is Madrid willing to? It's like the gamble Theresa May took with her snap election, there's no guarantee you'd get the results you want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 01:45:00 pm

They do have a law that allows them to ban parties who work "against the established democratic order" you know, voted in 16 years ago (ironically enough, with Puigdemont's party's votes in favor) to veto radical Basque nationalist parties from taking part in elections. Back then it was because of the tacit rhetorical support of Herri Batasuna of separatist terrorism, but the wording of the law is ambiguous enough to apply it to pretty much anything they want.

Of course if they use that it's throwing even more gasoline onto the fire...

We'll see. It does seem that, if the nationalist coalition stays together (Which is not a given, (http://www.eldiario.es/catalunya/politica/MINUTO-Diada_13_685361458_15207.html)), they would sustain or even increase their representation, so...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 01:52:50 pm

Can said parties run as independent in Spain? That'd be a way around. Also, there is no law in the US that bans particular political parties, the two big ones just dominate the scene and make things difficult for smaller parties.

In fact, the two big parties aren't parties in the European sense either where you have established legal parties with official legalness. There are things related to elections that are required, but the government has no legal power to stop people from forming any party they want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 02:03:00 pm

Quote

Can said parties run as independent in Spain?

After a ban no. Any party that is deemed a "resurrection" of the banned party is subsequently banned. This includes having any people in it's structure from the former party. It took the radical nationalists ten years to be able to relaunch their party (likely it was part of the officially not existing peace negotiations between the goverment and the terrorists, given that it happened AFTER the ceasefire).


Also, there is no way to run as "independent" proper. You can register a new party, but in order to be able to participate in an election you need a number of signatures (the exact number varies. For general elections you need 1% of the census)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2017, 02:12:52 pm

I don't suppose the politicians can change parties at will? Course though, there are problems with that such as the new party accepting them and how the politicians supporters would react. And there's the routine election related paperwork that they might not have enough time to process because preparations are going to have to start soon.

Also, write ins, if that's a thing in Spain.

Either way, banning the party in this kind of situation would definetly be pouring gasoline on the fire since Madrids intentions would be all too obvious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 31, 2017, 02:24:48 pm

It's still crazy to me how casually so many European nations can just declare a political organization illegal and void basically at will. But going so far as to effectively ban anybody associated with a banned party from political life? Christ, that's a tyranny loophole a mile wide.

Also, what's the deal with separatist parties getting hit by this law but neo-Falangists slipping by? Is the government really still that sympathetic to the Franco regime?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 02:28:49 pm

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 31, 2017, 02:57:02 pm

Puigdemont has declared that he and his ministers are now a government in exile. He demands that the upcoming elections be turned into an official referendum on Catalonian independence, although he has promised to accept the outcome if it is in favour of Spain.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/puigdemont-wil-officieel-referendum-en-tot-die-tijd-vanuit-ballingschap-regeren~a4526791/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 02:58:33 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 02:28:49 pm

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

https://youtu.be/CO2G8b5kE_w

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 31, 2017, 03:15:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 31, 2017, 02:57:02 pm

Puigdemont has declared that he and his ministers are now a government in exile. He demands that the upcoming elections be turned into an official referendum on Catalonian independence, although he has promised to accept the outcome if it is in favour of Spain.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/puigdemont-wil-officieel-referendum-en-tot-die-tijd-vanuit-ballingschap-regeren~a4526791/

Puigdemont still hasn't gotten it into his head that 1. elections don't work that way and that 2. the constitution still needs to be changed which requires political support outside of Catalonia, either from parties or voters, which likely has been blown due to pulling the independence trigger too early.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on October 31, 2017, 04:37:09 pm

This whole Catellan independence thing relies on every actor in it to keep blundering spectacularly, doesn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 31, 2017, 05:19:30 pm

Quote from: Antioch on October 31, 2017, 04:37:09 pm

This whole Catellan independence thing relies on every actor in it to keep blundering spectacularly, doesn't it?

As was once opined, history repeats itself: once as grand drama, the second time as farce.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 31, 2017, 06:34:01 pm

Quote from: da_nang on October 31, 2017, 03:15:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 31, 2017, 02:57:02 pm

Puigdemont has declared that he and his ministers are now a government in exile. He demands that the upcoming elections be turned into an official referendum on Catalonian independence, although he has promised to accept the outcome if it is in favour of Spain.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/puigdemont-wil-officieel-referendum-en-tot-die-tijd-vanuit-ballingschap-regeren~a4526791/

Puigdemont still hasn't gotten it into his head that 1. elections don't work that way and that 2. the constitution still needs to be changed which requires political support outside of Catalonia, either from parties or voters, which likely has been blown due to pulling the independence trigger too early.

Support he knows he won't get because people outside of Catalonia probably don't really care, or if they do, it's to keep it as part of Spain.

Forcing the issue - non-violently, I might add - was pretty much the only option. There's been a lot of news regarding Catalonia independence movement internationally as a result of this anyway; whether or not this was his intention? It does what you say he should be doing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 07:20:21 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 02:58:33 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 02:28:49 pm

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

https://youtu.be/CO2G8b5kE_w

Yo sé un pequeño Español.  :-[

Is that supposed to be Franco singing about not being dead?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on October 31, 2017, 11:57:34 pm

Pretty much, yeah.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 31, 2017, 02:24:48 pm

casually

Citation needed. In Germany at least they've only tried it three times, and succeeded only twice. One of those cases was a resurrection of the NSDAP, aka the literal Nazi party, and the other the German Communist Party KPD, around the time of Stalin's death.

On a continent with ideologies like that, you need such heavy-handed instruments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 01, 2017, 12:52:47 am

Quote from: Helgoland on October 31, 2017, 11:57:34 pm

On a continent with ideologies like that, you need such heavy-handed instruments.

This is certainly a matter amenable to dispute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2017, 02:45:01 am

Worth noting:  Spanish (right wingish) journal El Mundo published  a poll recently in which 58% of the Spanish population was in favor of letting the Catalonians hold a proper referendum. Which is... far higher than I expected TBH.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 01, 2017, 06:33:30 am

A majority of Catalans wanted a referendum to happen too. Support for that isn’t the same as support for independence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2017, 06:44:49 am

Quote from: hector13 on November 01, 2017, 06:33:30 am

A majority of Catalans wanted a referendum to happen too. Support for that isn’t the same as support for independence.

So?  If they agree to a binding referendum, they agree to abide by the result, whichever that is.

The important thing here is holding it and/or do an autonomy reform as to avoid that social pressure to mannifest in less pleasant ways. And there is a good chunk of the population in favor of holding it, which gives hope in favor of being able to resolve things in an amicable manner.

BTW after the 155 support for independence grew from 40% to 47.8% in the last poll. If the central goverment keeps this shit going eventually they'll manage to get a supermajority of Catalonian people in favor of independence and then there will be no way to come to a compromise. If the PP was looking after preserving Spanish territory they'd hold the referendum and/or come to an agreement sooner rather than later. Though it may be too late already

(You're aware that I'm not Catalonian, and therefore I'm not a Catalonian nationalist, right? I get the impression you're misunderstanding my position)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 01, 2017, 06:47:53 am

I know, I just woke up. Just makin’ sure you weren’t thinking that support for referenda /=/ Support for independence. That seems important in my post-sleep haze.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 01, 2017, 03:35:46 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2017, 06:44:49 am

So?  If they agree to a binding referendum, they agree to abide by the result, whichever that is.

If they agreed to an advisory referendum they reserve the right to be super salto about the outcome and attempt to torpedo it to the heavens. It's what a lot of people tried, and are trying, in the UK in regards to leaving EU

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2017, 06:44:49 am

The important thing here is holding it and/or do an autonomy reform as to avoid that social pressure to mannifest in less pleasant ways. And there is a good chunk of the population in favor of holding it, which gives hope in favor of being able to resolve things in an amicable manner.

BTW after the 155 support for independence grew from 40% to 47.8% in the last poll. If the central goverment keeps this shit going eventually they'll manage to get a supermajority of Catalonian people in favor of independence and then there will be no way to come to a compromise. If the PP was looking after preserving Spanish territory they'd hold the referendum and/or come to an agreement sooner rather than later. Though it may be too late already

What if they go full Stalin and relocate Catalonians to fix the supermajority by physical removal & disenfranchisement

*EDIT

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 31, 2017, 02:24:48 pm

It's still crazy to me how casually so many European nations can just declare a political organization illegal and void basically at will. But going so far as to effectively ban anybody associated with a banned party from political life? Christ, that's a tyranny loophole a mile wide.

Stop right there criminal scum, your post has violated the law (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests_up_37pc_london_section_127_communications_act/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 01, 2017, 03:38:23 pm

Full Stalin? I'm pretty sure you just mean Full Franco.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 01, 2017, 03:42:52 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 01, 2017, 03:38:23 pm

Full Stalin? I'm pretty sure you just mean Full Franco.

Stalin was better at naming. Relocation sounds friendlier than death squad dissident persuasion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2017, 03:49:03 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 07:20:21 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2017, 02:58:33 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 31, 2017, 02:28:49 pm

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

https://youtu.be/CO2G8b5kE_w

Yo sé un pequeño Español.  :-[

Is that supposed to be Franco singing about not being dead?

It's a parody of a popular Catalonian song, "El muerto vivo" (Lit, "the living dead"), which is about a guy who is presumed dead while he was actually on a weekend-long alcoholic binge. In the parody, Franco sings about still "being alive" as using the police to violently crack down on unarmed protesters and sending dissenters to prison is pretty much what he would have done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:42:37 am

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 02, 2017, 09:45:38 am

Quote from: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:42:37 am

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

4 years? How the fuck does that make sense? Maybe he isn't a dutch national and they're just wanting to have him deported ASAP after his sentence?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:52:44 am

Quote from: Sheb on November 02, 2017, 09:45:38 am

Quote from: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:42:37 am

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

4 years? How the fuck does that make sense? Maybe he isn't a dutch national and they're just wanting to have him deported ASAP after his sentence?

He was stated as living in Rotterdam. I am getting the impression he has a dual Dutch/Turkish passport, but it isn't stated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 02, 2017, 10:11:01 am

Quote from: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:42:37 am

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

Prosecutor had demanded 8 years.

Let's see. Illegal firearm posession.. Maximum sentence 5 years.
Illegal possesion of fireworks.. Maximum sentence is probably just a fine, maybe a year jailtime for illegal sale (the suspect claimed he just owned those to sell them), can't be proven they were for use in attack.
Possession of IS videos - Probably no sentence possible, unless proof can be found it was for active distribution
Possession of IS flag - not illegal
Planning of terrorist attack - little to no hard evidence, except recorded conversations which the subject claimed to be ripped out of context.

So technically, the prosecutor's demand of 8 years was already on the high side, since really all that could be proven doesn't add up to more than 6 years maximum sentencing.

So yeah, we might feel that someone like that needs to be locked away for life, but that's not how law works.

That doesn't mean that if this guy is released after serving 2/3ds of his time that our security service won't be watching his every move.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 11:01:08 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 02, 2017, 10:11:01 am

Quote from: Antioch on November 02, 2017, 09:42:37 am

In the Netherlands terror suspect Jaouad A is sentenced to 4 years in prison for preparing a terrorist attack.

In his home the following things where found: a Kalashnikov with armour piercing rounds. 288 cobra pieces of firework. A manual to turn said firework into a pipe bomb. A big painting of an IS flag and 289 IS propaganda video files. He was also recorded discussing potential targets for terror attacks with 2 unknown men.

The judge said that with the arrest of Jaouad A a terror attack with a considerable amount of potential casualties has been prevented

-----

Come on, you plan to blow up and shoot down countless of people and you get FOUR years in prison?

I find this seriously disgusting, someone like that should be locked up for life.

Prosecutor had demanded 8 years.

Let's see. Illegal firearm posession.. Maximum sentence 5 years.
Illegal possesion of fireworks.. Maximum sentence is probably just a fine, maybe a year jailtime for illegal sale (the suspect claimed he just owned those to sell them), can't be proven they were for use in attack.
Possession of IS videos - Probably no sentence possible, unless proof can be found it was for active distribution
Possession of IS flag - not illegal
Planning of terrorist attack - little to no hard evidence, except recorded conversations which the subject claimed to be ripped out of context.

So technically, the prosecutor's demand of 8 years was already on the high side, since really all that could be proven doesn't add up to more than 6 years maximum sentencing.

So yeah, we might feel that someone like that needs to be locked away for life, but that's not how law works.

That doesn't mean that if this guy is released after serving 2/3ds of his time that our security service won't be watching his every move.

The judge said a terrorist attack was prevented with his arrest. How can the judge say a terrorist attack has been prevented if he finds the evidence for that fact insufficient?

The court literally said an attack with a considerable amount of casualties was prevented:

Quote

De rechtbank acht bewezen dat A. een terroristisch misdrijf aan het voorbereiden was. ,,Hij was van plan een aanslag te plegen. Daarbij zou een aanzienlijk aantal slachtoffers te betreuren zijn geweest", stelt de rechtbank.

Quote

"Op grond van die combinatie van feiten concludeert de rechtbank dat de verdachte van plan was om een aanslag te plegen," staat in het vonnis. "Daarbij zou een aanzienlijk aantal slachtoffers te betreuren zijn geweest."

Anyway an appeal has already been requested by the justice department.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2017, 01:10:26 pm

Don't worry dudes he'll be totes chillax in 2021

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 03:50:28 pm

You will not believe the tantrum that I am throwing.

The laws need urgent change, if this is all that can be expected from them in the current state. It is not reasonable for such treason to give such a light sentence. It is not even about justice, but about the basic safety of the realm. My word...

I do hope that a significant improval to the terrorist laws are on their way, in the Netherlands and elsewhere in the Union. Otherwise, it is effectively a statement that this business of being murdered at random by enemies within is something that we will, and should, all have to live with, and I cannot imagine that it is what anyone wants.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2017, 01:10:26 pm

Don't worry dudes he'll be totes chillax in 2021

And such a display of mercy will no doubt convince all of his ideological fellows to surrender their arms and play nice and lovely with everyone. Surely?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on November 02, 2017, 04:27:56 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 03:50:28 pm

Otherwise, it is effectively a statement that this business of being murdered at random by enemies within is something that we will, and should, all have to live with, and I cannot imagine that it is what anyone wants.

People seem to do just fine with the much greater chance of being randomly killed by a car crash. :^)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 02, 2017, 05:17:44 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on November 02, 2017, 04:27:56 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 03:50:28 pm

Otherwise, it is effectively a statement that this business of being murdered at random by enemies within is something that we will, and should, all have to live with, and I cannot imagine that it is what anyone wants.

People seem to do just fine with the much greater chance of being randomly killed by a car crash. :^)

Yeah, there are absolutely no attempts made to prevent lethal car crashes in any way.

And if "does it kill more people than car crashes" is your standard for what upsets you then you must not be very upset by murders in general.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on November 02, 2017, 05:33:46 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on November 02, 2017, 04:27:56 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 03:50:28 pm

Otherwise, it is effectively a statement that this business of being murdered at random by enemies within is something that we will, and should, all have to live with, and I cannot imagine that it is what anyone wants.

People seem to do just fine with the much greater chance of being randomly killed by a car crash. :^)

Well, one, (Islamic) terrorism has a novelty bias.

Two, there's a locality bias. Terrorists want to maximize the impact by killing as many as possible. That means targeting major population centers e.g. the capital. If you live out in the country all your life, then yeah, you'll probably be unaffected. But if you, like many others, live or frequent e.g. the capital, you'll run a much higher risk.

A lousy comparison: Let's say it's known that there's exactly one terrorist in France and that an attack is coming. Let's say you're affected by the terrorist attack if you're within 1 km of the terrorist. If the attack was truly random, he could attack anywhere in France. So that would be a uniform ~1 in 200,000 chance for you to be affected.

If, however, it is also known the terrorist is targeting Paris, which is likely, then it's now a 1 in 400 chance if you're in Paris, or zero chance if you're not in Paris. But how often are you not in Paris?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on November 02, 2017, 07:15:23 pm

You don't have to go quite so far to explain it, though you're not necessarily wrong.

People are just bad at statistics. Terrorism is the same as e.g. plane accidents in this regard. It's a common pattern of cognitive bias and not necessarily limited to terrorism related things. Things that happen to a lot of people at the same time just seem to have more impact than things that happen to one person at a time. That's because human intuition was designed around hunter-gatherer societies, which were bands of no more than 80-100 people. We're not geared to make snap judgements about much larger numbers than that. So if something kills 30 people all at once then it feels like it's a more immediate threat than if something else kills 60 people, but one at a time. Because the one-at-a-time threat feels like it's easier to avoid.

EDIT: I'll just mention the Monty Hall problem here. People* including maths professors were stumped by that when the "paradox" was first explained. And that's about as simplistic as you could possibly make a probabililty / statistical thought experiment. If people in general, even experts in probability, can't intuit such a simple and straightfoward math word problem, then how do we expect them to be able to rationally compute probabilities for large and complex systems?

*In fact, idiots are still arguing against the mathematically-correct and provable answer to the monty hall problem. People just cannot understand variable probability. e.g. if there are two options and you can pick one, then the odds must be 50/50 that you pick right, right? Apply this deranged Monty Hall thinking to car accidents vs plane accidents or car accidents vs terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 07:43:32 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on November 02, 2017, 04:27:56 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on November 02, 2017, 03:50:28 pm

Otherwise, it is effectively a statement that this business of being murdered at random by enemies within is something that we will, and should, all have to live with, and I cannot imagine that it is what anyone wants.

People seem to do just fine with the much greater chance of being randomly killed by a car crash. :^)

It is not a matter of chance. While they might seem the same when compared only by the end result (being killed), being killed by a motorcar by accident is a very different thing to being deliberately run over by a murderer, and that murder is also changed by the fact that it is being committed by a foreign individual who have decided that you do not get to live in peace in your own country.

Further, the fact that an individual is more likely to die in a traffic accident is not a compelling arguement to avoid making legislation that makes it more difficult to commit mass murder. There is more to the matter than merely statistics on the likelyhood of being killed. With the right application of statistics, it is possible to turn the most wretched crimes and disasters into readily dismissable little trifles, I am sure...

In brief, the actual individual risk is very low indeed, but that does not mean that there is no reason to do anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 02, 2017, 08:05:01 pm

I’m not sure how writing things on a piece of paper is going to stop someone who really wants to kill folks in the name of an idea they think’ll get them laid in the afterlife will make it less likely to happen.

Perhaps they’re looking to get something out of following him when he gets out, or they’re worried about him radicalsing other prisoners, or they’re trying to send a message to the terrorists that they really aren’t worth the effort of throwing a guy in a small room forever.

Terrorism isn’t just about killing folks, you gotta work in that propaganda too. They kill the guy, he’s a martyr. They throw him in the aforementioned small room, they’re tyrants. Any halfway decent PR guy can spin something to look the way they want it to.

Still... four years is kinda fucked up. If you have several hundred explosives, I think it’s pretty obvious you intend to blow shit up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 03, 2017, 09:11:02 am

The Spanish foreign minister anounced that if the nationalists win again the goverment will offer a constitutional reform that makes things closer to the autonomy statute of 2010 that they brought down


About f*ing time you moron.  Thats what you should have done 5 years ago. Now? Dousing this isn't going to come that cheap. They're going to demand a Basque-style economic concert at the very least

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 03, 2017, 09:19:11 am

The question now is whether the Catalans will take Madrid at their word. At least Madrid is acknowledging the fact that they might not get the results they'd prefer and are giving themselves an off ramp away from a constitutional crisis, or the current one escalating.

Just had a thought, remember the Italian politics thing I posted a while back? I wonder if they might try to push harder now that pushing an independence referendum made Madrid possibly concede to negotiations. Of course though, the political ecosystem of Italy is completely different and it sounded like usual Italian politics to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 03, 2017, 03:14:30 pm

Not sure if it got mentioned but I'm sure I saw a Beeb news article mentioning that Spain demanded an international arrest warrant for the catalan ministers who fled to brussels

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 12, 2017, 11:48:15 am

Not much going on in Europe?

UK Foriegn Minister Boris Johnson (that British guy with the Trump-like hair) got photographed with the 'London Professor' in the Russia probe. (https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-pictured-with-london-professor-from-fbi-russia-probe/) Nothing actually scandalous at this point, just sort of a 'so, you got photographed with this guy' and concerns about Russian influence in the British government.

Catalan crisis stuff still happening http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41958204

I wonder whether the Madrid government really will accept the results of the election in December if the results come out in a way that they'd rather not. Deciding that they don't like the results and attempting to reroll might provoke another constitutional crisis of its own.

Also, developments in Poland that should worry everybody https://www.politico.eu/article/white-nationalists-call-for-ethnic-purity-at-polish-independence-day-march/ Also, among the chants was "Europe is white or uninhabited", advocating ethnic self-genocide of their own ethnic identity, really?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 12, 2017, 12:22:48 pm

Polish Nazis, the proof that irony will never die.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 13, 2017, 06:10:36 pm

Spanish ministers accuse Russia of sparking and enabling the Catalonian crisis with massive fake news attacks, and accuse it of trying to divide Europe and create dissent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 13, 2017, 06:12:14 pm

Julian Assange is also mixed in with the accusations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 06:19:21 pm

Lolwut, Julian Assanage got himself mixed in with the fake news accusations in Catalonia?

Also, way for Madrid to try and make it look like Catalonias grievances aren't real without proof that Russia is doing it. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia was doing some behind the scenes stuff, but at least they should prove that Russia is behind it. Like for example the Russian troll farms (now though, I've got a DF troll farm to sell you, lol) and the Facebook and Google ads that are linked to those same trolls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 13, 2017, 06:33:13 pm

Considering the bullshit the central goverment media spreads it takes some cojones for them to talk about "Russian fake news"

My thoughts?  They're trying some foreign-oriented damage control, and since Russian fake news are a thing, well, why not blame them for the situation in Catalonia?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2017, 06:41:16 pm

Sounds like them trying to influence american opinion?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 13, 2017, 06:43:04 pm

Doubt it. Russian disinfo strategies and fake Russian disinfo strategies are older than the shit that went down with Trump. If anything, they're trying to influence EU bodies and Spanish public opinion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2017, 06:46:23 pm

B-but I thought we were the center of the world and everyone cared about what we think! D:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 13, 2017, 06:47:51 pm

We are the center of the world and everybody cares way too much about what we think while also denying it, but in this instance American public opinion isn't gonna do much and Trump is either a Russian shill or he isn't. I'm sure Putin will telefax him the playbook re: Catalonian puppet state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on November 13, 2017, 08:17:37 pm

Can we got back to setting up to kill T72's at the Fulda Gap now?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on November 13, 2017, 11:53:19 pm

Quote from: Strife26 on November 13, 2017, 08:17:37 pm

Can we got back to setting up to kill T72's at the Fulda Gap now?

I'd say we've pushed the NATO border far enough east that we're back to Miracles on the Vistula, but I'm an optimist that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 14, 2017, 11:25:28 am

Quote from: Strife26 on November 13, 2017, 08:17:37 pm

Can we got back to setting up to kill T72's at the Fulda Gap now?

Why so pessimistic? I always wanted to visit the banks of the Volga.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 14, 2017, 11:42:26 am

Quote from: Helgoland on November 14, 2017, 11:25:28 am

Quote from: Strife26 on November 13, 2017, 08:17:37 pm

Can we got back to setting up to kill T72's at the Fulda Gap now?

Why so pessimistic? I always wanted to visit the banks of the Volga.

We did spot all those nice potential fire positions when we were in St Petersburg...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on November 14, 2017, 01:50:02 pm

Alright, killing T72's in nonspecific locations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 15, 2017, 04:42:56 am

Quote from: Strife26 on November 14, 2017, 01:50:02 pm

Alright, killing T72's in nonspecific locations.

It's nice to see than in this era of bitter partisanship, some people can still reach good compromises.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2017, 09:37:07 am

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42057108
yurop news: Merkel prefer new elections instead of running a minority government, leading to the bizzarre spaghetti where both britpol and germpol leaders could asplode this year or the next, derailing brexit talks until 2096 or the next Mars Landing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 21, 2017, 01:18:14 pm

British PMs: Resign because the toast was soggy.

German Chancellors: No reason to resign, the Prophecy of Fire is yet unfulfilled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2017, 02:35:21 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 21, 2017, 01:18:14 pm

British PMs: Resign because the toast was soggy.

German Chancellors: No reason to resign, the Prophecy of Fire is yet unfulfilled.

American Presidents: Don't resign because soggy toast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2017, 10:17:29 pm

In a combination of EuroPol and wtf, the Thuringia branch of Germany's AfD apparently has a Chief Escalation Officer? O.o https://www.politico.eu/article/german-artists-build-holocaust-memorial-outside-far-right-politicians-house/ last paragraph in the article. Don't know if that's a real thing or the author inserting their views or being sarcastic. Edit: I misread it, it's the other side that has the chief escalation officer.

Meanwhile, the German government still can't come up with a compromise and with elections likely not happening until summer, Merkel is doing a caretaker government with her party and the socialists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 22, 2017, 10:23:32 pm

There's still time for the Die PARTEI majority government, Germany! See the light!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2017, 10:26:51 pm

A majority with the pirate party?

Anyways, it certainly seems like it might be an end of an era for Germany (and the beginning of another one). Wonder who'd become Chancellor, that Sigmar Gabriel guy maybe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 23, 2017, 05:52:40 am

Quote

Höcke’s regional branch of the AfD in Thuringia slammed the group’s actions as “an outrageous intrusion on the privacy of the Höcke family,” with a party spokesman accusing them of “stalking” Höcke’s wife and children. The activist group claims to have been staying on the neighboring property for 10 months and to have set up their own “civil” intelligence service to monitor “Germany’s biggest agitator.”
The group’s CEO (Chief Escalation Officer), Stefan Pelzer, said in a statement that if Höcke were to “take a knee before the memorial and sincerely ask for forgiveness for the German crimes during World War II, we will do what other intelligence services do: shred the documents altogether.”

Wat
y you gotta seek forgiveness for something you've not done to get information collected about your wife and daughter deleted. No john you are the agitators
smhtbqhfamalam turn 360* and vote pirates

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 23, 2017, 05:56:04 am

But we need our secret police to monitor the fascist, LW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 23, 2017, 06:00:48 am

Quote from: scriver on November 23, 2017, 05:56:04 am

But we need our secret police to monitor the fascist LW

Scriver confirmed as zampolit in charge of spying on LW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 23, 2017, 07:23:28 am

I sure hope secret police sempai notices me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 24, 2017, 07:56:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 22, 2017, 10:26:51 pm

Wonder who'd become Chancellor, that Sigmar Gabriel guy maybe?

*chokes partly out of laughter, partly out of fear*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Radio Controlled on November 24, 2017, 07:57:54 am

The Age of Sigmar is coming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 26, 2017, 11:48:18 pm

It was more 'first German politician not named Merkel' than an actual suggestion that he'd be the next Chancellor.

Puidgemont somehow equated Catalonia as being like Massachosetts when he said that his future hope is that Europe would evolve towards a United States of Europe with Catalonia like Massachusetts. I suppose he might be referring to the spark of the Revolution starting in Massachusetts or something, but I have no clue what he's trying to refer to or means by that. https://www.politico.eu/article/ex-catalan-leader-we-need-international-support-for-independence/

Besides, a correctly scaled analogy would be that Catalonia would be like a county in Massachosetts because Spain would be the state, not Catalonia.

A United (States of) Europe with the same level of federalization as the US or Russia would have a different structure anyway because it started out in a completely different way from the US or Russia.

Any thoughts on his comparing Catalonia with Massachosetts? Probably gonna be something along the lines of "what even is he talking about?" 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 26, 2017, 11:59:36 pm

I'd like to say that he was referencing Massachusetts' relation to the revolution, but his statement seems to suggest he just picked a US state, as in "we don't need independence, we could be just like some random American state, idk, Massachusetts".

Doubly so because that simile doesn't work. Catalonia is partly represented within a state that's part of a confederation, and Puigdemont is saying the EU can instead be a federation of which Catalonia is a member (and Spain can get fucked, I guess). Massachusetts became an independent state through war, then a confederation with the other colonies, then a federation after that didn't work out. It doesn't really work unless there's a war and then an agreement to go under a federal government and this has gotten way out of hand

It's just not a good comparison is my point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 27, 2017, 12:13:44 am

Yeah, even the scale doesn't work, Massachusetts didn't become independent from within another state and scaling the current members of the EU confederation to those of states would make Catalonia a county (or equivalent administrative subdivision) scale is the same) within Massachusetts. Same if he tried to use a province of Canada since the scale would still make it a county (or whatever the administrative subdivision is called) within said province.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on November 27, 2017, 04:55:29 am

Not sure what you mean by scale, Catalonia with its 7.2 millions people is as large as Washington, so a bigger-than average US state.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 27, 2017, 05:12:32 am

I think there's something lost in translation here, because Catalonia is not a "county" in the sense that, say, Norfolk is a county in Massachussets, but an autonomous community. Autonomous communities, legally speaking, would be closer to Scotland in the UK . How many competences of the central goverment have been devolved exactly varies from region to region, though.
Puigdemont's party's immediate purpose was to get greater self-goverment for Catalonia (eg: more devolved authority) rather than full blown independence. The  central goverment's stonewall of the former led to them joining up with other nationalist parties for the latter. Odds are they'd be willing to come to a compromise, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on November 27, 2017, 05:29:03 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 27, 2017, 05:12:32 am

I think there's something lost in translation here, because Catalonia is not a "county" in the sense that, say, Norfolk is a county in Massachussets, but an autonomous community. Autonomous communities, legally speaking, would be closer to Scotland in the UK . How many competences of the central goverment have been devolved exactly varies from region to region, though.
Puigdemont's party's immediate purpose was to get greater self-goverment for Catalonia (eg: more devolved authority) rather than full blown independence. The  central goverment's stonewall of the former led to them joining up with other nationalist parties for the latter. Odds are they'd be willing to come to a compromise, though.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily translation in that sense.  Smjjames seems to be asserting that administratively, Catalonia would be analogous to a county in precisely the sense that Norfolk is a county in Massachusetts, or for a less ambiguous example that won't trip on the fact that Catalonia is *also* a historical county, Avoyelles is a parish of Louisiana or Denali a borough of Alaska.  This is because Massachusetts is to the United States as Spain is to the European Union, and thus Norfolk within Massachusetts would correspond to Catalonia within the European Union.  It's basically a straightforward cross-compare along hierarchical political lines: US = EU; US state = EU country; US county = EU province/state/autonomous community (but not a Catalonian province). 

The reason I don't agree is because the analogy breaks down from the get-go, as the United States and European Union aren't entirely analogous, nor are Catalonia and, say, Avoyelles Parish.  The United States does not really have autonomous governments below the state level; county, parish, and borough governments all derive their authority from the state.  The major exception, that of the secession of West Virginia from Virginia, was a confederation of multiple counties in a situation where their state had already seceded from the Union.  As such, it'd be more accurate politically to assert that Catalonia within Spain is indeed closest to a state (say, Massachusetts) within the United States, where the EU would be analogous to NAFTA.  This also has the benefit of also being more accurate economically, as Sheb also noted.  Finally, it also avoids the question in this analogy of what happens when you get below this level, where you start running into oddities like an EU city being compared to a US neighborhood or an EU house being compared to a US room. 

EDIT: Added an exception to the rule, since the US is ornery that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 27, 2017, 09:22:52 am

Culise pretty much got what I was trying to get at, that on a political division scale, if the EU were turned into an United States of Europe, Spain would be the state, not Catalonia. It's possible that he was thinking of all the countries split into their consistuent parts, but that would be utterly ridiculous.

I know it's not a perfect analogy because the scale would be skewed from the start and I was trying to get at how silly the comparison was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 27, 2017, 09:34:06 am

I’m thinking he meant they would be independent from Spain, but within the EU, so thus like an American state.

The ellipsis in the middle of his quote doesn’t help, since it could be eliminating some of the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 27, 2017, 11:04:11 am

This is both a wtf and an EuroPol thing, apparently Der Spiegel (a German news mag) asked this British singer Morrissey whether he'd kill Trump given the chance. Leaving aside the fact that Morrissey got baited with the question and could have answered differently, why did the magazine ask that? Killing the leader of a country isn't something to casually make a joke question about. Were he American, Morrissey would be getting a visit from the Secret Service, wouldn't be surprised if he got blacklisted by them already. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/361951-morrissey-i-would-kill-trump-for-the-safety-of-humanity  The Die Spiegel article itself is in German though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 27, 2017, 07:14:28 pm

Cross posting this in here in case Helgo decides to respond over here.

Quote from: Helgoland on November 27, 2017, 04:55:35 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 27, 2017, 11:06:11 am

This is both a wtf and an EuroPol thing, apparently Der Spiegel (a German news mag) asked this British singer Morrissey whether he'd kill Trump given the chance. Leaving aside the fact that Morrissey got baited with the question and could have answered differently, why did the magazine ask that? Killing the leader of a country isn't something to casually make a joke question about. Were he American, Morrissey would be getting a visit from the Secret Service, wouldn't be surprised if he got blacklisted by them already. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/361951-morrissey-i-would-kill-trump-for-the-safety-of-humanity  The Die Spiegel article itself is in German though.

The tl;dr is that the wtf is why did Der Spiegel even go there, though they're kind of a somewhat provocative magazine, but still.... seriously?

Find me the full version somewhere and I'll be happy to translate - that sounds like something taken way out of context.

The link is in the article, but here: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/morrissey-ueber-brexit-kevin-spacey-und-merkels-fluechtlingspolitik-a-1178545.html might be paywalled. I tried to use google translate, but it wouldn't load the article page for some reason on mobile.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on November 28, 2017, 11:38:09 pm

Ayup, paywalled for 39 cents. You'll have to cough that up yourself, I don't really do e-payments ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on November 29, 2017, 01:33:17 am

Here's some fun for you. You can delete the paywall wrapper using browser's inspect tools, and underneath it is fuzzed-out text. I was able to delete a bunch of HTML from the active page, which removed the paywall and fuzziness. However, what was underneath it was "encrypted" but with only ROT-1 encoding. So I wrote a little script to reverse that:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

SPIEGEL: Mr Morrissey, in Ihrem neuen Song "Spent the Day in Bed" empfehlen Sie, keine Nachrichten mehr zu sehen. Ein ernst gemeinter Vorschlag?

Morrissey: Ja. Die Menschen sollten damit aufhören um ihrer eigenen geistigen Gesundheit willen. Sie müssen aufhören. Die Nachrichten sind nur noch Social Engineering, und dabei geht es um Kontrolle und nicht um Information. Es gibt keine Nachrichten mehr. Nur noch Kontrolle.

SPIEGEL: Das klingt nach Trumps Fake News, aber Sie haben sich gerade bei einem Konzert gegen Trump ausgesprochen.

Morrissey: Trump hat so viel Aufmerksamkeit bekommen, erst recht im Vergleich zu anderen Kandidaten - Bernie Sanders zum Beispiel. Obwohl die Medien sagten, er werde nicht gewinnen, jeden Tag, alle Überschriften: Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump! Die amerikanischen Medien haben Trump geholfen, ja, sie haben ihn erst erschaffen. Ob sie ihn kritisieren oder über ihn lachen, das ist ihm egal, er will nur sein Bild und seinen Namen sehen. Die amerikanischen Medien haben sich selbst ins Bein geschossen. Seitdem er an der Macht ist, hat er die Welt erschöpft. Er grapscht nach allem wie ein kleines Kind. Er ist kein Anführer. Er ist ein Ungeziefer. Ein riesiges Ungeziefer.

SPIEGEL: Denken Sie, dass er wiedergewählt werden wird?

 Morrissey: Ich hätte nie damit gerechnet, dass er überhaupt gewählt würde. Ich war auch während der Anschläge auf das World Trade Center hier in Los Angeles, und die Stadt stand still. Die Menschen waren starr vor Schock. Keine Autos auf den Straßen. Es war die gleiche Atmosphäre wie bei der Bekanntgabe von Trumps Wahl. Es war, als ob die Welt geendet hätte. Wiederwahl? Kann sein, ich habe kein Vertrauen in die politische Elite mehr.

SPIEGEL: Wenn hier ein Knopf wäre, und wenn Sie daraufdrückten, Trump tot umfiele - würden Sie ihn drücken oder nicht?

Morrissey: Würde ich, für die Sicherheit der Menschheit. Hat nichts mit meiner persönlichen Meinung zu seinem Gesicht oder seiner Familie zu tun, aber im Interesse der Menschheit würde ich drücken.

SPIEGEL: Aus deutscher Sicht gab es vergangenes Jahr zwei Ereignisse, von denen die Menschen glaubten, sie würden nicht eintreten. Trump - und der Aqdwhs. Aber den Brexit heißen Sie gut, ist das wahr?

Morrissey: Das ist nicht wahr. Der Ausgang des Brexit-Referendums fasziniert mich, weil er ein Sieg für die Demokratie war. Das Volk hat Ja gesagt. Obwohl Westminster Nein gesagt hat. Die politische Elite und das Establishment haben Nein gesagt. Nein, nein, nein, wir bleiben in der EU. Und die Öffentlichkeit hat die Medien ignoriert und selbst entschieden, darum ist der Brexit sehr wichtig. Er ist der größte demokratische Sieg in der Geschichte der britischen Politik seit vielen, vielen Jahren. Ob man den Brexit an sich gutheißt, ist eine andere Sache, aber ich war sehr stolz auf die Briten, dafür, dass sie die BBC ignoriert haben, Sky News ignoriert haben, die immer sagten: Wenn wir die EU verlassen, werden wir alle sterben.

SPIEGEL: Ist der Song "Jacky's Only Happy When She's Up on the Stage" tatsächlich ein Pro-Brexit-Song? Man sagt, Jacky stehe für den Union Jack.

Morrissey: Das ist die Idiotie, mit der ich leben muss. Die Journalisten behaupten, ich würde etwas sagen, was ich gar nicht sage. Der Song ist nicht politisch. Das ist absoluter Unsinn, und sie entschuldigen sich niemals bei mir. Sie wollen einfach negativ sein.

SPIEGEL: Ein anderes Lied vom neuen Album heißt "The Girl from Tel-Aviv Who Wouldn't Kneel", das Mädchen, das niemals kniet.

Morrissey: Ich liebe diese Stadt. Der Rest der Welt meint es nicht gut mit Israel. Aber die Menschen dort sind sehr großzügig und freundlich. Man sollte niemals ein Volk nach seiner Regierung beurteilen. Es ist sehr selten, dass die Regierung die Wünsche des Volkes widerspiegelt. Auf jeden Fall nicht in England. Auf jeden Fall nicht in Amerika. Vermutlich auch nicht in Deutschland.

SPIEGEL: Was halten Sie von der antiisraelischen BDS-Bewegung? Also insbesondere von Künstlern, die aus politischen Gründen nicht in Israel auftreten?

Morrissey: Ich bin dagegen. Wenn ich in Russland spiele, singe ich nicht für Putin. Ich singe für die Leute da. Es ist absurd und engstirnig. Politisch korrekt zu sein ist inkorrekt. Es ist absurd. Es bedeutet, die Redefreiheit zu verbieten. So klingt die BDS-Bewegung für mich.

SPIEGEL: Sie setzen sich seit Jahrzehnten für Tierrechte ein. Wenn es in Ihrer Hand läge, was würden Sie ändern?

Morrissey: Ich würde das Schlachthaus verbieten. Ich war noch nie in meinem Leben wählen. Ich habe noch nie meine Stimme für irgendeine politische Partei abgegeben. Ich hebe meine Stimme für die Partei auf, die das Schlachthaus abschafft. Tiere sollten frei geboren werden und ihr Leben leben dürfen. Sie sollten nicht als Sklaven geboren werden. Ich verstehe nicht, warum irgendwer glaubt, Tiere verdienten es, zerhackt zu werden. Wenn du erlaubst, dass das Schlachthaus weiterhin existiert, sagst du: Der Holocaust ist großartig. Auschwitz war fantastisch. Lasst uns damit weitermachen. Es ist exakt dasselbe. Wenn du mir nicht glaubst, geh in ein Schlachthaus.

SPIEGEL: Da wir hier in Hollywood sind: Haben Sie die Debatten um G`qudx Vdhmrsdhm, Jduhm Ro`bdx und "LdSnn verfolgt?

Morrissey: Bis zu einem gewissen Punkt, ja, aber dann wurde es zu einem Theaterstück. Auf einmal sind alle schuldig. Jeder, der mal zu jemand anderem gesagt hat "Ich mag dich", wird auf einmal wegen sexueller Belästigung beschuldigt. Man muss diese Dinge in die richtigen Relationen setzen. Wenn ich jemandem nicht mehr sagen kann, dass ich ihn mag, wie soll er es jemals wissen? Natürlich gibt es extreme Fälle, Vergewaltigung ist ekelhaft, jeder physische Angriff ist abstoßend. Aber wir müssen es im Verhältnis sehen. Sonst ist jeder Mensch auf diesem Planeten schuldig. Wir können nicht permanent von oben herab entscheiden, was man tun darf und was nicht. Denn dann sitzen wir alle in der Falle. Manche Menschen sind ohnehin schon sehr ungeschickt, wenn es um Romantik geht. Sie wissen nicht, was sie tun sollen, und dann wirkt ihr Verhalten aggressiv.

SPIEGEL: Was halten Sie davon, dass Spacey, eine der Hauptfiguren in einem Film, kurz vor dem Starttermin ersetzt wird?

Morrissey: Das finde ich lächerlich. Soweit ich weiß, war er mit einem 14-Jährigen in einem Schlafzimmer. Kevin Spacey war 26, der Junge 14. Da fragt man sich doch, wo die Eltern des Jungen waren. Man fragt sich, ob der Junge nicht ahnte, was passieren könnte. Ich weiß nicht, wie es bei Ihnen ist, aber ich war in meiner Jugend niemals in Situationen wie dieser. Nie. Mir war immer klar, was passieren könnte. Wenn man sich im Schlafzimmer von jemandem befindet, muss man sich bewusst sein, wohin das führen kann. Darum klingt das alles für mich nicht sehr glaubwürdig. Mir scheint es so, als sei Spacey unnötig attackiert worden.

SPIEGEL: Soll das auch für die Schauspielerinnen gelten, die mit Vdhmrsdhm ins Hotelzimmer gingen?

Morrissey: Die Leute wissen genau, was passiert. Und sie spielen mit. Hinterher ist es ihnen peinlich, oder es gefiel ihnen nicht. Und dann drehen sie es um und sagen: Ich wurde attackiert, ich wurde überrascht, ich wurde in das Zimmer gezerrt. Aber wäre alles gut gelaufen und hätte es ihnen eine große Karriere ermöglicht, würden sie nicht darüber reden. Ich hasse Vergewaltigungen. Ich hasse Übergriffe. Ich hasse sexuelle Situationen, die jemandem aufgezwungen werden. Aber in sehr vielen Fällen betrachtet man die Umstände und denkt sich, dass die Person, die als Opfer bezeichnet wird, lediglich enttäuscht ist. In der gesamten Geschichte der Musik und des Rock 'n' Roll gab es Musiker, die mit ihren Groupies geschlafen haben. Wenn man die Geschichte durchgeht, ist fast jeder schuldig, mit Minderjährigen geschlafen zu haben. Warum nicht gleich alle ins Gefängnis werfen?

SPIEGEL: David Bowie hat laut Aussage der Betroffenen eine 15-Jährige entjungfert. Auch das eine Bagatelle?

Morrissey: Das war damals absolut üblich.

SPIEGEL: Waren Sie je in solch einer Situation?

Morrissey: Nein.

SPIEGEL: Weder auf der einen noch auf der anderen Seite?

Morrissey: Nein. Niemals, niemals, niemals.

SPIEGEL: Ist Provokation ein wichtiges Element Ihrer Kunst?

Morrissey: Was ist Provokation? Stimulation?

SPIEGEL: Sagen Sie manche der provokanteren Dinge nur, um sich gegen bestimmte Strömungen in der derzeit allgemeinen Weltanschauung zu stellen?

    "Das politische Leben fällt überall auseinander. In gewissem Sinne freut mich das."

Morrissey: Ja, ich meine, man muss die Debatte öffnen. Genauso wie man Israel nicht boykottieren sollte. Man muss sich zusammensetzen und den Menschen zuhören. Man kann nicht sagen, ich hör dir nicht zu, du bist nicht meiner Meinung, also hast du unrecht. Das ist auch das Problem mit einem großen Teil der britischen Presse. Sie reden gern mit mir, aber dann drucken sie ein Interview, in dem sie eben nicht schreiben, was ich gesagt habe. Das ist falsch, denn es ist meine moralische Sicht, nicht ihre. Provokation ist ein zu starkes Wort, aber ich bin für Klartext.

SPIEGEL: Was ist die letzte Lüge über Sie?

Morrissey: Dass "Jacky" ein Song über den Brexit wäre. Aber so ist die britische Presse. Das ist die "Loony Left", die verrückte Linke, die sind so extrem. Sie sind inzwischen wie das "Dritte Reich". Sie lassen sich nicht beeinflussen, und man darf keine andere Meinung mehr haben. Es ist sehr, sehr langweilig, und es ist ziemlich gefährlich. Die Menschen sind heute besessen davon, wo sie politisch stehen. Sie sind engstirnig. Seien es die Rechten oder die Linken. Ich bin nicht politisch, ich bin apolitisch, aber ich bin ein menschliches Wesen, das in der jetzigen Welt existiert. Alles, was wir tun, hat auch mit Politik zu tun. Aber wie gesagt, ich habe noch nie in meinem Leben irgendeine Partei gewählt.

SPIEGEL: Ja, das sagten Sie.

Morrissey: Theresa May ist absurd. Donald Trump ist absurd. Sie haben keinen Sinn dafür, wie man Menschen führt. Wenn sie sprechen oder dich ansehen, weißt du, sie haben keine Ahnung davon. Theresa May hat keine Ahnung, was sie tun soll. Es ist sehr traurig. Das politische Leben fällt überall auf der Welt auseinander. In gewissem Sinne freut mich das, denn schon die Idee von Präsidenten und Ministerpräsidenten erscheint mir extrem altmodisch. Die Vorstellung, dass eine einzige Person, sei es eine Vater- oder eine Mutterfigur, uns vor allem Übel rettet, ist ziemlich absurd.

SPIEGEL: Sie meinen, die Welt geht gerade durch die Pubertät?

Morrissey: Ja± Die Menschen sind das Establishment leid. Alle sind müde. Wir glauben niemandem mehr. Wir glauben nicht mehr an die alten Machtstrukturen. Die Armen bleiben arm, egal was passiert. Die Militarisierung der Welt ist überholt, sie funktioniert nicht. Wenn wir also politische Figuren sehen, die nach politischen Figuren der Fünfziger modelliert sind, mit Krawatte, schönen Schuhen und gutem Anzug, dann ist es ein sehr altmodisches Prinzip. So ist die Welt nicht. Es gibt immer mehr Menschen wie mich auf der Welt, wir sind viele. Wir wollen das nicht mehr, weil es uns unglücklich macht. Es ist vorbei.

SPIEGEL: Was ist die Rolle der Musik in dieser Konstellation?

Morrissey: Musik ist das absolut Wichtigste. Der Schlüssel zum Überleben. Musik wird jetzt zensiert, sie wird kontrolliert, damit sie nur noch Unterhaltung ist. Trotzdem werden alle, die etwas zu sagen haben, einen Weg finden, das zu tun. Musik ist unser einziger Freund.

SPIEGEL: Was denken Sie über die Situation in Deutschland?

Morrissey: Jede Sekunde, die ich je in Deutschland verbracht habe, war mir ein Privileg. Deutschland war mir ein Freund. Ich bin nicht besonders begeistert von der EU, aber das ist nicht wichtig. Ich will jedoch kein Teil eines deutschen Imperiums sein. Und ich denke nicht, dass England Teil eines deutschen Imperiums sein sollte.

SPIEGEL: Sie halten die EU für ein deutsches Imperium?

Morrissey: Ja. Und so denken viele Menschen. Vielleicht ist das der Grund, warum die Menschen für den Brexit gestimmt haben. England konnte keine Entscheidungen mehr treffen, ohne sich an Deutschland zu wenden.

SPIEGEL: Also denken Sie, Angela Merkel ist die Mutter Europas?

Morrissey: Nun, sie ist klug genug, nicht viel zu sagen. Sie bleibt still, was sehr interessant ist. Aber ich bin traurig, dass Berlin die Vergewaltigungshauptstadt geworden ist.

SPIEGEL: Die was? Hauptstadt der Vergewaltigung?

Morrissey: Ja, ja± Wegen der offenen Grenzen. Viele Menschen denken, es war ein Fehler von Angela Merkel, dass sie am Anfang sagte: "Kommt, kommt alle her±" Und dann: "Huch, huch, doch nicht±"

SPIEGEL: Sie sind also dagegen, Flüchtlinge aufzunehmen?

Morrissey: Okay, reden wir über den Multikulturalismus. Ich will, dass Deutschland deutsch ist. Ich will, dass Frankreich französisch ist. Wenn man versucht, alles multikulturell zu machen, hat man am Ende gar keine Kultur mehr. Alle europäischen Länder haben viele, viele Jahre für ihre Identität gekämpft. Und jetzt werfen sie sie einfach weg. Ich finde das traurig.

SPIEGEL: Aber Sie leben in den USA, die in ihrer jetzigen Form entstanden sind, weil Menschen von überallher kamen.

Morrissey: Jedes einzelne Land hat seine Geschichte von Revolutionen und Befreiung. Andere Länder haben nicht deine Geschichte. Es ist nicht einfach, das zu verbinden. Wenn Menschen einwandern, bringen sie ihre Religion und ihre Sitten mit und versuchen, die zu etablieren. Und da beginnt die Verwirrung.

SPIEGEL: Also sagen Sie, jeder sollte bleiben, wo er ist?

Morrissey: (lacht laut) Nein. Aber ich denke, jedes Land sollte seine Identität bewahren. Millionen Menschen sind für die deutsche Identität gestorben. Wenn Sie meinen, sie hätten Respekt verdient, dann müssen Sie ihr Land beschützen.

SPIEGEL: Mr Morrissey, wir danken Ihnen für dieses Gespräch.

Quote

SPIEGEL: If there was a button here and if you pressed on it, Trump would die dead - would you push it or not?

Morrissey: I would, for the safety of humanity. It has nothing to do with my personal opinion of his face or his family, but in the interest of humanity I would push.

It looks like they got their "39 cents" worth of paywall there for sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on November 29, 2017, 03:52:13 am

Pfff loaded question by der Spiegel and other media twisted the context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on November 29, 2017, 06:01:51 am

Kinda related to EU, but the trials for various war crimes in the balkans are coming to a close and boy are they a doozy. This morning, as the verdict was about to be annouced for general Praljak the dude straight up drank poison or some shit and had to be hospitalized, no news if he's alive or not at this time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 29, 2017, 11:13:22 am

Quote from: Jopax on November 29, 2017, 06:01:51 am

Kinda related to EU, but the trials for various war crimes in the balkans are coming to a close and boy are they a doozy. This morning, as the verdict was about to be annouced for general Praljak the dude straight up drank poison or some shit and had to be hospitalized, no news if he's alive or not at this time.

How did they not make sure he didn't have anything on him? Seems like a wise thing to do with people like this. Though I suppose if they did search him, someone could have slipped him the vial at a later point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 29, 2017, 01:33:25 pm

Update: He died in hospital http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42163613 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42163613)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2017, 03:58:27 pm

Indeed, he died several hours later in a hospital in the Hague. International War Crime Court has been declared a crime scene, and court sessions have been cancelled for now. It will be investigated how he was able to obtain the poison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2017, 04:53:15 pm

Woah that's some james bond shit right there

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2017, 06:26:23 pm

I do wonder who is going to investigate it. Even though the ICC is based in the Netherlands, I do believe that the courtroom is officially international neutral territory.
Technically they might have to create an international police agency first before they can investigate how the poison got there, because no one has jurisdiction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on November 29, 2017, 07:58:58 pm

Isn't that what Interpol does?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 29, 2017, 08:40:01 pm

I think Interpol are more of a liaison thing between police forces of various nationalities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on November 30, 2017, 06:17:49 am

I honestly don't know, it's the impression I've got from various depictions of it in entertainment which isn't neccessarily correct xD

Anyways, in other, balkan related news, seems that this morning a dude in Sarajevo was caught snooping around the US embassy, armed with both guns and explosives. Got caught in a random checkup it seems, not sure if or when it'll hit international news sources since it's kind of a local thing atm, tho with the US embassy being involved as a potential target it's only a matter of time.

Edit:
Nope, US embassy wasn't involved, instead it was a random checkup of his car after being stopped by the police. Dude had a bunch of guns, ammo, grenades and apparently a bazooka of some sort. Furthermore, he was fighting in Syria for some time before coming back home and being convicted for it. He then served 3 months (out of a years sentence) and was let go? I'm not sure why or how but he seems to have a travel ban until he serves the rest of it, which is kinda fuckin' dumb. He asked for it to be removed so he could visit his wife in Serbia (who was exiled because she was deemed a threat to national security).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2017, 06:58:15 am

First thought about the three months stuff is that he had been three months in jail during the trial and that that counts against his prison time.

Purely speculating though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 30, 2017, 09:47:16 pm

Something interesting, the research/pollster group Chatham House did a study on the political spectrum regarding the EU and found that there are six political tribes ranging from the totally anti-EU to the federalists (most pro-EU). https://www.politico.eu/article/study-identifies-europes-six-political-tribes/

Though IMO, 10,000 people seems like a small sample given that 10 countries were looked at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 30, 2017, 09:55:11 pm

Mildly interesting but not anything revelationary

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aNhxU1Y.png)

Doesn't take a genius to figure out Europe is split like this. You got the extremes of 14% that oppose the EU ardently, the 8% that want the EU to centralize faster, the 9% who got europoored, the 9% that want to be more pro-EU but balk at the obvious criticisms, the 23% that like the way things are and the majority 36% that doesn't like the way things are but not to such a degree that they don't believe the problems can be solved within the EU. This pretty much corresponds to most all positions really. You get the two extreme wings of an opinion who are set in their beliefs and everyone in the middle that is drawn to one side but not committed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 30, 2017, 10:03:06 pm

Please adjust these polling results for institutional bias by adding 16 points to federalists, 20 points to contented europeans, and 10 points to frustrated pro-europeans while subtracting 9 points from austerity rebels, 15 points from hesitant europeans, and 9 points from EU rejectors. The European Scientific Commission Review Board thanks you for your time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 01, 2017, 05:30:39 am

Quote

The analysis surveyed more than 10,000 Europeans in 10 EU countries

So yay, another hipster research of a waaaaay too small group to be anywhere near representative for 'the EU population'.
It's a shame they even got paid to do that research.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on December 01, 2017, 06:42:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 01, 2017, 05:30:39 am

Quote

The analysis surveyed more than 10,000 Europeans in 10 EU countries

So yay, another hipster research of a waaaaay too small group to be anywhere near representative for 'the EU population'.
It's a shame they even got paid to do that research.

But you can do statistics with a sample group of 10,000 just fine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on December 01, 2017, 06:55:26 am

Quote from: Antioch on December 01, 2017, 06:42:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 01, 2017, 05:30:39 am

Quote

The analysis surveyed more than 10,000 Europeans in 10 EU countries

So yay, another hipster research of a waaaaay too small group to be anywhere near representative for 'the EU population'.
It's a shame they even got paid to do that research.

But you can do statistics with a sample group of 10,000 just fine.

In theory, perhaps. In practice, the population of the EU was around 510 million in 2016. That means their sample size as a percentage is about 0.002%. It's... not compelling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 01, 2017, 06:57:50 am

Quote from: Antioch on December 01, 2017, 06:42:24 am

But you can do statistics with a sample group of 10,000 just fine.

Not when trying to represent a population of 743 511 (the frist number was for Europe, not EU) million, especially when leaving out nearly two thirds of it's member states as well.

It's wish-thinking of those that like to see a federal EU to think that it's possible to simplify 28 separate national political entities down to a common denominator.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on December 01, 2017, 07:37:33 am

Quote from: Arx on December 01, 2017, 06:55:26 am

Quote from: Antioch on December 01, 2017, 06:42:24 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 01, 2017, 05:30:39 am

Quote

The analysis surveyed more than 10,000 Europeans in 10 EU countries

So yay, another hipster research of a waaaaay too small group to be anywhere near representative for 'the EU population'.
It's a shame they even got paid to do that research.

But you can do statistics with a sample group of 10,000 just fine.

In theory, perhaps. In practice, the population of the EU was around 510 million in 2016. That means their sample size as a percentage is about 0.002%. It's... not compelling.

You can calculate the uncertainty introduced by having a sample group of this size.

Your required sample sized rises a lot less quickly than your population size:

Quote

How many people are there in the group your sample represents? This may be the number of people in a city you are studying, the number of people who buy new cars, etc. Often you may not know the exact population size. This is not a problem. The mathematics of probability prove that the size of the population is irrelevant unless the size of the sample exceeds a few percent of the total population you are examining. This means that a sample of 500 people is equally useful in examining the opinions of a state of 15,000,000 as it would a city of 100,000

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on December 01, 2017, 08:11:37 am

more than overall sample size, the problem lies in how those are distributed in the 10 EU countries, and the fact that they only examined 10 EU countries. Even if they picked the ones with largest population, that is still leaving out a sizeable portion.

Even being a federalist myself, I think politics and opinions of different EU countries can be quite different, especially on such a topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 09:36:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

This report by Chatham House, a British think-tank. (https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-12-01-europes-political-tribes-raines-goodwin-cutts.pdf)

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. 10.000 is a pretty big sample size. As for the 10 countries, well, the top 10 EU countries have 80% of the population between them. This probably gives you a good idea of the average EU citizen. Sure, there are certainly variations between countries, but the graph doesn't make any claim about proportions within specific countries. It's as if you were complaining that a US-wide presidential poll is bad, because it's not representative of Alabama's GOP leaning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 01, 2017, 09:55:00 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 09:36:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

This report by Chatham House, a British think-tank. (https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-12-01-europes-political-tribes-raines-goodwin-cutts.pdf)

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. 10.000 is a pretty big sample size. As for the 10 countries, well, the top 10 EU countries have 80% of the population between them. This probably gives you a good idea of the average EU citizen. Sure, there are certainly variations between countries, but the graph doesn't make any claim about proportions within specific countries. It's as if you were complaining that a US-wide presidential poll is bad, because it's not representative of Alabama's GOP leaning.

10,000 divided by 10 is 1,000, which isn't exactly a big sample size for each country. If you wanted to get a general idea of the political makeup of the region, that's probably fine, but if you wanted to really drill deeper, seems like a bigger sample size would be preferred.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 10:05:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2017, 09:55:00 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 09:36:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

This report by Chatham House, a British think-tank. (https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-12-01-europes-political-tribes-raines-goodwin-cutts.pdf)

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. 10.000 is a pretty big sample size. As for the 10 countries, well, the top 10 EU countries have 80% of the population between them. This probably gives you a good idea of the average EU citizen. Sure, there are certainly variations between countries, but the graph doesn't make any claim about proportions within specific countries. It's as if you were complaining that a US-wide presidential poll is bad, because it's not representative of Alabama's GOP leaning.

10,000 divided by 10 is 1,000, which isn't exactly a big sample size for each country. If you wanted to get a general idea of the political makeup of the region, that's probably fine, but if you wanted to really drill deeper, seems like a bigger sample size would be preferred.

Yeah, which is why they aren't attempting to dig deeper (for exemple, publishing by-country results). 1000 is also not that small either. Looking at 538's poll trackers for Trump approval rating for exemple, they are mostly in the 1000-2000 range with most being 1500. So 1000 is on the small side, but still relatively ok.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 01, 2017, 10:11:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2017, 09:55:00 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 09:36:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

This report by Chatham House, a British think-tank. (https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-12-01-europes-political-tribes-raines-goodwin-cutts.pdf)

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. 10.000 is a pretty big sample size. As for the 10 countries, well, the top 10 EU countries have 80% of the population between them. This probably gives you a good idea of the average EU citizen. Sure, there are certainly variations between countries, but the graph doesn't make any claim about proportions within specific countries. It's as if you were complaining that a US-wide presidential poll is bad, because it's not representative of Alabama's GOP leaning.

10,000 divided by 10 is 1,000, which isn't exactly a big sample size for each country. If you wanted to get a general idea of the political makeup of the region, that's probably fine, but if you wanted to really drill deeper, seems like a bigger sample size would be preferred.

I disagree with this kind of blanket statement because it disregards actual statistics. You can actually calculate how representative is a sample size relative to a larger population. 

Now, there are other ways in which a poll can be nonrepresrentative, beyond sample size, but if you feel that 10.000 is too little a sample I think you need to justify why.  Personally, at a glance I think 10.000 is fairly good  (we do clinical trials with far less people, and generalize the result to huge swathes of humanity, after all) , and a quick check online suggest that it would provide a quite narrow confidence interval, too

Like I said before, though, this doesnt mean that the poll is or isn't flawed in other ways, but the complaints about sample size seem misaimed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 01, 2017, 12:06:47 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 10:05:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2017, 09:55:00 am

Quote from: Sheb on December 01, 2017, 09:36:34 am

Quote from: Helgoland on December 01, 2017, 07:44:02 am

What's the source of that statistic anyway?

This report by Chatham House, a British think-tank. (https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/files/chathamhouse/publications/research/2017-12-01-europes-political-tribes-raines-goodwin-cutts.pdf)

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. 10.000 is a pretty big sample size. As for the 10 countries, well, the top 10 EU countries have 80% of the population between them. This probably gives you a good idea of the average EU citizen. Sure, there are certainly variations between countries, but the graph doesn't make any claim about proportions within specific countries. It's as if you were complaining that a US-wide presidential poll is bad, because it's not representative of Alabama's GOP leaning.

10,000 divided by 10 is 1,000, which isn't exactly a big sample size for each country. If you wanted to get a general idea of the political makeup of the region, that's probably fine, but if you wanted to really drill deeper, seems like a bigger sample size would be preferred.

Yeah, which is why they aren't attempting to dig deeper (for exemple, publishing by-country results). 1000 is also not that small either. Looking at 538's poll trackers for Trump approval rating for exemple, they are mostly in the 1000-2000 range with most being 1500. So 1000 is on the small side, but still relatively ok.

Having a poll in every country would be good as any major decision towards federalism is almost certainly going to need qualified-majority or unanimous agreement in the Council of Ministers and maybe national referenda. The poll might reflect better on the parliament but not the council.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on December 01, 2017, 11:37:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2017, 09:55:00 am

10,000 divided by 10 is 1,000, which isn't exactly a big sample size for each country. If you wanted to get a general idea of the political makeup of the region, that's probably fine, but if you wanted to really drill deeper, seems like a bigger sample size would be preferred.

However, the point is that this argument has no actual mathematical basis. From a maths point of view, there's no provable benefit in having a larger sample size, as long as your selection is truly random. In statistics "total population size" isn't even a variable in your equation to work out the needed sample size. The only reason for big sample sizes in political studies is just that - political - because big numbers are more convincing to people who never actually studied statistics 101.

e.g. imagine a bag with X number of black marbles and Y number of white marbles. You pull out marbles one by one, note their color and estimate what percentage of the bag is black marbles or white marbles. The total number of marbles in the bag is entirely irrelevant to how many marbles must be drawn to determine the proportion of black vs white to a specified level of accuracy.  e.g. if I double the number of marbles in the bag, the accuracy of the estimate based on 100 marbles is still exactly the same as it was before. The bag could hold a billion or a googleplex worth of marbles, and it wouldn't in fact change your accuracy after drawing 100 marbles even one bit. And that's because total population size isn't a variable that affects proportions, which is all that the statistic is measuring.

The only correct argument here is - is the sample selection truly random? If your sample selection mechanism isn't random then it won't actually make any difference if you sample 1000, 10000, 100000 or 1000000. It will still have the exact same bias. e.g. if everyone I sample comes from Paris and I'm claiming that this is representative of all Europeans, increasing the sample size won't fucking improve the metric even one bit. Ok, I'll ask twice as many Parisians what they think. Now is it more "representative" of Europeans? Or, you could ask 250 million people, half of Europe, but if you had a biased selection (e.g. focused on big city people) then it's going to be worse than a carefully selected sample of 1000.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on December 03, 2017, 07:19:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2017, 04:53:15 pm

Woah that's some james bond shit right there

Little late, but there's some surprising precedence: Hermann Göring killed himself the night before he was to be hanged. Same substance, actually...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 03, 2017, 07:29:25 pm

That was passed to him by a guard, if I recall correctly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 03, 2017, 07:31:41 pm

Yeah, the purpose of the action is to deny justice. Killing yourself before the end of the trial is a way of saying "my victims deserved it, I am not subject to your judgement".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 03, 2017, 08:22:45 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 03, 2017, 07:31:41 pm

Yeah, the purpose of the action is to deny justice. Killing yourself before the end of the trial is a way of saying "my victims deserved it, I am not subject to your judgement".

I think it's different to that. Researching into the dude is interesting. While I haven't had the time to come to a conclusion whether he was guilty or innocent yet (from my initial glimpse it's a fucking horrifying clusterfuck of groups allying and breaking alliances in a heartbeat), what is clear is that he believed of his innocence. 2004 he surrenders willingly to the Hague instead of remaining in Croatia, for the reason of clearing his name of the charges leveled against him (the war crimes). In that trial he's found guilty and sentenced to 20 years prison. This trial was not the trial to determine his guilt or innocence, it was his appeal to clear his name. Although some of the charges against him were dropped in the appeal, most stayed, and his sentence remained at 20 years. However, given that he had already served the majority of his sentence, he could've just served the rest and walked off a free man in a short time. But that's not the point, if he walked free he would walk with the stain of being a war criminal, there would be nowhere he could call home and no point in living. If however, he died and died on camera (it's worth noting he was before the war an artist and professor, having written and directed many plays), he would be able to end not on a pathetic note, dying decrepit & dishonoured on the streets, but die on his own choosing in open and public defiance of the court:
"Judges, Slobodan Praljak is not a war criminal, with disdain I reject your verdict! This is poison that I drank."
With knowledge of his drama background, it seems he scripted himself into a Greek tragedy. Result? Legacy

Quote

Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenkovic expressed condolences to Praljak’s family and denounced the rulings as a "deep moral injustice" against the convicted. He also rejected the finding that the Adriatic state was complicit in war crimes, instead saying it was defending its ethnic-kin and others from neighboring Serbia.
“The verdict incorrectly assesses the role of Croatian leadership in the war,” Plenkovic said in the capital, Zagreb. “Croatia gave refuge to hundreds of thousands of Bosnian refugees, also including Bosnian Muslims.”
He said it was “absurd” that none of the tribunal’s verdicts had found Serbia’s wartime leaders, and particularly late President Slobodan Milosevic, responsible for war crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Ethnic-Serb authorities from Bosnia and Herzegovina, including military leaders Ratko Mladic and former President Radovan Karadzic, were convicted.
Croatian lawmakers also reacted with apparent shock.
“The verdict is unjust, it is not based on historical facts, and we are rejecting it,” assembly Speaker Gordan Jandrokovic said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/bosnian-croat-kills-himself-with-poison-at-un-court-hina-says

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 04, 2017, 05:48:44 am

Yeah, calling it an utter and total clusterfuck is an understatement. Every side has blood on their hands and every side has victims missing to this day, buried in some unkown location with the guilty fucks either dead or still at large.

The general mood is dissappointment and resentment from the croatian side while the serbs and some of the muslims are kinda celebrating. Then again, it was the same deal for pretty much every conviction that has happened to date, one side is dismayed because suprise suprise they had shit people among their ranks while the other two are celebrating it, conviniently ignoring the shitfucks that fought and did horrible things on their behalf.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2017, 06:35:20 pm

So in Brexit news I've had fun scoring up how many times the Tories made major own-goals but now I have depression.
1 Nov - Defence Secretary Michael Fallon resigns after multiple sexual scandals and sexual assault allegations emerge, replaced by Gavin Williamson, dubbed the Baby-Faced Assassin by peers.
8 Nov - Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel resigns after it is revealed she held covert & unauthorized meetings with senior Israeli officials in the Golan height, including the Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, in order to discuss using British foreign aid development funds to pay for the medical treatment of Syrian jihadi militiants. What the fuck (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/john-humphrys-cabinet-resignations-government-near/)
30 Nov - Someone leaks (hint: It was the EU) that UK Brexit bill could cost £50B (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42161346), when most voters stomach at most £10B. It would mean in effect that all the money the Tories promised would go from paying the EU and to paying the NHS, would go from paying the EU to paying the EU. Generates major salt.
1 Dec - Brexit Secretary David Davis in threat to quit over Damian Green porn storm (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-secretary-david-davis-in-threat-to-quit-over-damian-green-porn-storm-a3707546.html), wherein MP Damian Green's parliamentary computer was found with thousands of porn images downloaded and so called upon to resign. Talk about a hung parliament
4 Dec - Tory backbenchers threaten rebellion if Gavin Williamson does not get Phillip Hammond to reverse planned cuts to Defence. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/27/conservative-mps-warn-new-defence-secretary-over-spending-cuts)
Literally now - Theresa May rejects deal reached between the UK-EU after the DUP made it clear that Northern Ireland absolutely could not remain under EU laws (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/04/theresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live) while the rest of the UK separated themselves.
Really just a political revolt within the party every odd week or so

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 06:42:16 pm

Comrade Corbyn's revolutionary fervor has got to be gigantic watching this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 04, 2017, 06:47:16 pm

Northern Ireland (Sinn Fein mostly) was also throwing a fit about hard borders, or maybe that was Ireland. I'm sure some Brexiteers are wondering why they're doing it and jumped into it without any real plan or idea of what would happen.

Looking more and more like Britain would regret doing Brexit, especially without any plan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2017, 06:54:25 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 04, 2017, 06:47:16 pm

Northern Ireland (Sinn Fein mostly) was also throwing a fit about hard borders, or maybe that was Ireland. I'm sure some Brexiteers are wondering why they're doing it and jumped into it without any real plan or idea of what would happen.
Looking more and more like Britain would regret doing Brexit, especially without any plan.

Not at all, it's undesirable but you must understand that Brexiteers jumped into this with a goal in mind, with that goal being leaving the European Union. The Guardian's put it aptly:

Quote

Voters are holding firm to old views – but are more pessimistic about the outcome of talks with the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/21/brexit-poll-opinium-eu-no-deal)

Those who wanted to leave the European Union still want to leave the European Union, those who wanted to remain in the European Union still want to Remain in the European Union. The only thing that has changed is that everyone is depressed that this is going to be the maximum saltiest timeline for the next 5, 10 and 20 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 04, 2017, 07:04:45 pm

It’s rather amazing how long it seems like there’s been no plan.

PPE: I mean it’s all well and good knowing the destination, but if you have neither the vehicle or knowledge of how to get there, you’re going to be all kinds of knackered by the time you arrive. Probably look a right tit, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 04, 2017, 07:37:31 pm

That’s what I meant by having no plan on how to do it, like the vehicle and plan to get there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 08:13:21 pm

There's no plan because the Ories couldn't stomach to do what they ought to have done (admit they don't have a plan and dismiss the referendum) because of what it would have done to their hold over the government, and so they just went full ham and hoped for the best. Except of course for David "Barnyard Tussle" Cameron, who saw the train coming and jumped straight off the tracks.

Not that it'll save Conservative in the end. That Red Laour government is coming down the pipeline either way, though they might have at least dodged Corbynism if they had bit the bullet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2017, 08:24:17 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 08:13:21 pm

There's no plan because the Ories couldn't stomach to do what they ought to have done (admit they don't have a plan and dismiss the referendum) because of what it would have done to their hold over the government, and so they just went full ham and hoped for the best. Except of course for David "Barnyard Tussle" Cameron, who saw the train coming and jumped straight off the tracks.

Not that it'll save Conservative in the end. That Red Laour government is coming down the pipeline either way, though they might have at least dodged Corbynism if they had bit the bullet.

You had the frontbench pro-EU Tories, who were right scuppered before the GE because their party constituents wanted an EU referendum and Cameron promised them one. Thus they could've broken their promise, but that would've meant giving the election to Ed Fucking Miliband. Thus Cameron goes on to launch the referendum with every sneeky breeki plan up his sleeve, with his ultimate trump card: Have no plan for Brexit despite proposing the referendum because you never intended to lose. He didn't just see the train coming when he jumped, he was the fucking driver, now we're all stuck on the train and it has no brakes ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:53 pm

T’ be fair to Cameron, he did campaign for Remain (autocorrected to capitalized? A’ight) and the bookies were all thinking Remain would for almost the entire lead-up to the referendum, so when they lost he cashed in his get out of jail free card and fucked the fuck off.

Then everyone in the ensuing leadership contest dropped out because they realized what a poisoned chalice it was. Not sure if May was just the last to realize or she - despite having campaigned for Remain herself - genuinely thought she could lead the exit with some dignity intact.

Fair play to her I s’pose, she stuck around after botching a 20-point lead over six weeks after calling a snap election she didn’t really want, but then again the prominent Tories couldn’t really tell her she was shit ‘cause then it’d look like they were more interested in personal political gain instead of focusing on Brexit.

Politics would be funny if it didn’t have such a massive influence on everyone’s life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 09:53:18 pm

May's actions and her personality seem to line up pretty evenly - if she is playing at some game it's not a very good one. She's just totally straight laced and traditional, neither reconciled or radicalized by the existence of opposing ideologies.

Which makes Corbyn kind of a nightmare opposition for her. Much as it was deservedly mocked, I could see "STRONG AND STABLE" working under different circumstances. If the Laour candidate were a boring centrist who couldn't stir up any fire against "the nation does not need this divisive opposition in these trying times".  The issue is that Corbyn is exactly the type to show up and try to seduce people into the jaws of the left without shame. He meets Rule Zero, by being interesting and confident where as May's confidence comes off more like she doesn't entirely know what's going on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 03:35:04 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2017, 06:35:20 pm

So in Brexit news I've had fun scoring up how many times the Tories made major own-goals but now I have depression.
1 Nov - Defence Secretary Michael Fallon resigns after multiple sexual scandals and sexual assault allegations emerge, replaced by Gavin Williamson, dubbed the Baby-Faced Assassin by peers.
8 Nov - Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel resigns after it is revealed she held covert & unauthorized meetings with senior Israeli officials in the Golan height, including the Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, in order to discuss using British foreign aid development funds to pay for the medical treatment of Syrian jihadi militiants. What the fuck (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/11/09/john-humphrys-cabinet-resignations-government-near/)
30 Nov - Someone leaks (hint: It was the EU) that UK Brexit bill could cost £50B (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42161346), when most voters stomach at most £10B. It would mean in effect that all the money the Tories promised would go from paying the EU and to paying the NHS, would go from paying the EU to paying the EU. Generates major salt.
1 Dec - Brexit Secretary David Davis in threat to quit over Damian Green porn storm (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-secretary-david-davis-in-threat-to-quit-over-damian-green-porn-storm-a3707546.html), wherein MP Damian Green's parliamentary computer was found with thousands of porn images downloaded and so called upon to resign. Talk about a hung parliament
4 Dec - Tory backbenchers threaten rebellion if Gavin Williamson does not get Phillip Hammond to reverse planned cuts to Defence. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/27/conservative-mps-warn-new-defence-secretary-over-spending-cuts)
Literally now - Theresa May rejects deal reached between the UK-EU after the DUP made it clear that Northern Ireland absolutely could not remain under EU laws (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/04/theresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live) while the rest of the UK separated themselves.
Really just a political revolt within the party every odd week or so

You're forgetting a few:
-Don't make plans for Brexit. Even after the referendum, activate article 50 before knowing what exactly one wants.
-Don't make plans for who would lead if Cameron leaves.
-Nominate BoJo as Foreign Secretary, because he's just the person you need to make friends around the world when you deseperately need them.
-Throw election to strengthen majority against unelectable Corbyn, ends up in thrall to reactionnary leprechauns.
-Staff the government with a bunch of random Conservatives that May has no control on, and split the Brexit portfolio in so many ways that negotiating is impossible.
-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise.

I mean, apart from the negotiations themselves, it's quite amazing how late the UK is at all the things they'll need to do themselves now. Where is the EMA replacement? The thousands of new custom officers that will be needed? I mean, those are things which are more or less independent of the negotiations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on December 05, 2017, 05:53:58 am

I am still baffled that an advisory referendum with the most minimal difference in for and against was taken as an absolute and irrefutable reason to leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 05, 2017, 07:45:08 am

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine.  ;)



Not that I'm a fan of the DUP, but alas, Northern Ireland politics are so bad that it's a case of "vote for us because you don't want those guys over there in power." Rather annoying, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on December 05, 2017, 07:47:58 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 07:45:08 am

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

Would "reactionary clurichauns" be better or worse? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 07:50:42 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 07:45:08 am

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine.  ;)

Is the reactionary or the leprechaun part the offensive one? :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 07:51:05 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:53 pm

T’ be fair to Cameron, he did campaign for Remain (autocorrected to capitalized? A’ight) and the bookies were all thinking Remain would for almost the entire lead-up to the referendum, so when they lost he cashed in his get out of jail free card and fucked the fuck off.

There's nothing fair in that; he was Prime Minister and deliberately sabotaged his own post and responsibilities on the assumption that he could manipulate the public exactly how he'd want to. Then like a complete mug he said he wouldn't quit if he Leave won, then quit as soon as Leave won. Can't be any clearer: He didn't do his job.

Quote from: hector13 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:53 pm

Then everyone in the ensuing leadership contest dropped out because they realized what a poisoned chalice it was. Not sure if May was just the last to realize or she - despite having campaigned for Remain herself - genuinely thought she could lead the exit with some dignity intact.

Boris Johnson was set to become Prime Minister with a solid hold on the Tory party when two hours before announcing his leadership campaign, his chief ally Gove announced his own leadership campaign. Caesar didn't drop out, he got shanked. Thus all the prominent Leave campaign Tories got kamakazed by themselves. May was the last one standing vs Leadsom, and of course we find out Michael Fallon was also being all pervy on Leadsom, and May was a lukewarm Remain supporter.

Quote from: hector13 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:53 pm

Fair play to her I s’pose, she stuck around after botching a 20-point lead over six weeks after calling a snap election she didn’t really want, but then again the prominent Tories couldn’t really tell her she was shit ‘cause then it’d look like they were more interested in personal political gain instead of focusing on Brexit.

Thing is, she did want the snap election. The polls gave her a 20 point lead so she took it for granted she'd win. Didn't even run a campaign. Same issue as Cameron, calling elections and referendums when the polls say you'll win and then not actually doing the work required to win.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 09:53:18 pm

May's actions and her personality seem to line up pretty evenly - if she is playing at some game it's not a very good one. She's just totally straight laced and traditional, neither reconciled or radicalized by the existence of opposing ideologies.

In summation she's a member of the conservative party

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2017, 09:53:18 pm

Which makes Corbyn kind of a nightmare opposition for her. Much as it was deservedly mocked, I could see "STRONG AND STABLE" working under different circumstances. If the Laour candidate were a boring centrist who couldn't stir up any fire against "the nation does not need this divisive opposition in these trying times".  The issue is that Corbyn is exactly the type to show up and try to seduce people into the jaws of the left without shame. He meets Rule Zero, by being interesting and confident where as May's confidence comes off more like she doesn't entirely know what's going on.

Corbyn is honestly a dream opposition for her which is what makes her snap election result such a bullet in the foot. Boring centrist leader sure would suck balls, but a charismatic centrist leader would be able to put a dirk to the cartoid and make it rain red while the reyns of castamere plays in parliament. "Strong and stable" would work in circumstances that are actually strong and stable, otherwise it strikes me as declaring the Era of Restored Tranquility just before the Emperor is assassinated. The major issue in May's confidence is that she's not very good with public confidence. Corbyn's been doing that for 40 years and is well versed in telling his own party or the tory party to fuck off, Theresa May by contrast does not like the cameras, didn't show up to her own debate and her leadership conference was marred by illness. I'd say she's done a good job in the workplace but she hired the lady who wants to arrest shitposters for being terrorists, so nah, nah no no.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 03:35:04 am

You're forgetting a few

I was only doing the last month. The list would otherwise be much larger

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 03:35:04 am

-Staff the government with a bunch of random Conservatives that May has no control on, and split the Brexit portfolio in so many ways that negotiating is impossible.
-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise.

I agree with all your points bar these two; Theresa May cannot politically eliminate the previous government for the very reason that she has limited control over the party, thus must replace them as they resign. While she has been replacing previous cabinet ministers with her own loyalists, I'd say that's been bloody disastrous too. Sure they'll listen to her, but they'll also do things like make shitposting illegal, which is absolutely haram. Point being: It results in stuff like a man who has no service in the armed forces or ministry being promoted into one of the most important governmental posts. And on the latter point, it's untrue on both, with the brexit date set in stone. Really the only difference was whether the EU wanted to conduct negotiations as neighbours or enemies. Also don't call any Irish people leprechauns, it's not exactly anything they haven't heard too much before and they take it as considerably rude :P

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 03:35:04 am

I mean, apart from the negotiations themselves, it's quite amazing how late the UK is at all the things they'll need to do themselves now. Where is the EMA replacement? The thousands of new custom officers that will be needed? I mean, those are things which are more or less independent of the negotiations.

We can't replace the EMA when we haven't left the EU, and criticizing the UK for that is like criticizing the EU for not having even planned for an EMA replacement location yet.
In regards to customs staff:

Quote

An extra 5,000 customs staff will have to be hired to cope with Brexit, the Government has admitted.
The Cabinet agreed on Tuesday that the raft of new employees will be needed as part of Whitehall’s £500m preparations for quitting the EU - including the possibility of a ‘no deal’ outcome with Brussels on trade.
Brexit Secretary David Davis led a special discussion on the issue at the Cabinet, which also heard that 3,000 staff had already been hired so far to implement the exit from the European Union. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/extra-5000-staff-for-hmrc-to-cope-with-no_uk_59f873f2e4b09b5c2568f822)

Preparations have already been made by the UK.

We are actually better prepared than the EU:

Quote

This would require much greater levels of enforcement at borders and ports, but many countries would not have the staff needed to implement this for at least a year after Brexit, according to analysis by the Financial Times.
Several EU states, including France and Germany, have lengthy training procedures for customs officers, meaning that, even if they began recruiting now, there would not be sufficient staff in place by the time the UK quits the EU in March 2019.
Germany trains officers for three years, while inspectors in France take two years to qualify. EU governments are said to be reluctant to invest in recruiting more officers while it remains unclear whether Britain will quit the bloc without a trade deal.
Should a trade agreement be reached, tariffs are unlikely to be introduced and so an increase in customs staff would be unnecessary. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-customs-union-not-enough-staff-officers-eu-states-tariffs-no-deal-a8028371.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

Fair enough on the political possibilities for May of controlling her government, but you were talking of Tories own goal, not May own goals after all.

Regarding the second point you contested, ("-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise."), unsurprisingly I disagree with you on both count. There has been a ongoing refusal from the Brexiteer since the referendum campaign to acknowledge that the EU, not Britain, would have the leverage in the exit talks. As an exemple I distinctly remember you arguing that since the UK was running a trade deficit with the EU, it had the leverage, which is, well bollocks.

This has been apparent also among the Brexiteer at the cabinet level, with BoJo's prosecco comment and Davis arguments that German carmakers would pressure Merkel into giving the UK what they want. That is a fundament misreading of the situation seen from the Continent, where Britain simply isn't that important, and those clumsy comment are seen as feeble ploy to divides countries, while they know that unity is key to strength in negotiations. (By the way, isn't it hilarious that there seems to be more unity on Brexit among EU governments than within the British cabinets.) As for negotiations between neighbours and enemies, that's crap too. The EU is simply defending the interest of its members and their citizens, wether on the Irish border or about the right of EU citizens resident in Britain. That you see that as enmity is exactly the kind of "expecting the EU to bend over backward".

Re: EMA, we have a replacement location (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/07/amsterdam-sweetens-the-pill-with-new-building-offer-for-european-medicines-agengy/), a building in the Zuidas business park of Amsterdam that the Dutch government will be paying for. Legislation to relocate has already been introduced by the commission. The relocation is also easier than creating the agency from scratch, since much of the staff can be retained. (There is going to be some disruption still, and new hires, but at leas the core function should be maintained without too much disruption according to internal survey.)

Now, what about the British side?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 05, 2017, 11:25:44 am

Quote from: Culise on December 05, 2017, 07:47:58 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 07:45:08 am

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

Would "reactionary clurichauns" be better or worse? :P

Probably better. Still not golden, though.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 07:50:42 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 07:45:08 am

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine.  ;)

Is the reactionary or the leprechaun part the offensive one? :p

It's the Democratic Unionist Party. I'm sure if you think really, really hard you can work out which bit would be offensive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 01:36:47 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

Regarding the second point you contested, ("-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise."), unsurprisingly I disagree with you on both count. There has been a ongoing refusal from the Brexiteer since the referendum campaign to acknowledge that the EU, not Britain, would have the leverage in the exit talks. As an exemple I distinctly remember you arguing that since the UK was running a trade deficit with the EU, it had the leverage, which is, well bollocks.

1. Do you understand how fucking stupid it would be for our Prime Minister to acknowledge any leverage at all when the EU has made it clear their objective is to punish the UK? You might as well fault the Prime Minister for representing Britain instead of the EU. May's fucked up 20 times but that's not the 21st.
2. I made pages of sourced arguments and I won't have them be distilled into a tweet I never made. I was tired of it then and I'm too tired now.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

This has been apparent also among the Brexiteer at the cabinet level, with BoJo's prosecco comment and Davis arguments that German carmakers would pressure Merkel into giving the UK what they want. That is a fundament misreading of the situation seen from the Continent, where Britain simply isn't that important, and those clumsy comment are seen as feeble ploy to divides countries, while they know that unity is key to strength in negotiations.

Boris Johnson is the absolute worst man for a diplomatic job and David Davis was making a sincere case to put co-prosperity over politics.

There is a fundamental misreading of the situation seen by the Continent. Not enough EU partners have supported co-prosperity such that it can overcome the EU; thus the EU wants to punish the UK. The EU treating us as an enemy has been the single most unifying factor in British politics.
"No deal would be the worst case scenario… No deal means no winners, everybody will lose.” - Juncker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHbiTSRDY3k)
But clearly Juncker does not control his own negotiators because the deals have been vindictive. This is after a poll revealed nearly three-quarters (74% (https://news.sky.com/story/philip-hammond-hits-out-at-brexiteers-call-for-no-deal-divorce-fund-11076349)) support the Government's position that no deal is better than a bad deal on Brexit. Even amongst remaininers now only 46% of Remainers say that the Brexit process should just be called off if Britain reaches March 2019 without a deal, meaning a majority of remainers and the vast majority of leavers are well prepared to leave with no deal unless the EU is capable of calming down.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

(By the way, isn't it hilarious that there seems to be more unity on Brexit among EU governments than within the British cabinets.)

Why? There's no irony in it if you understood that British politics has always been controlled by pro-EU ministers stacking cabinet with pro-EU ministers. It bears repeating that in 2015 of the major parties you could vote for a pro-EU Tory leader, pro-EU labour leader and a pro-EU libdem leader. Even now our PM was on the remain campaign. We've had one year to sort out decades long interfactional splits between socialists, thatcherites, pro-EU and eurosceptic, liberal and conservative, all within a parliamentary democracy.

As to whether the EU governments are united, it just seems to me like the EU is doing as it always has done: No doesn't mean no if you're not listening. From the Hungarians calling EU parliamentary hearings witch hunts and communist show trials to the election of eurosceptics in Austria or the Visegrad group fucking off or the French-German integration happening despite Italian objections. This is not the result of a UK master plan of spies and ploys, this is the EU not listening to its own member states.
Consider that the UK was unquestionably an EU member and when Cameron went to negotiate reforms which would've allayed Brexit fears, the EU gave him nothing. The EU seems to have learned nothing from this lesson and now is like a Han Emperor, convinced the realm is fine when it's in it's most existential crisis. You could find that hilarious but it's pretty much business as usual tbh, it's rare to see yuros agree on something and it's bloody well depressing. The EU could give Europeans reasons to support it, instead it would rather give reasons to fear it.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

As for negotiations between neighbours and enemies, that's crap too. The EU is simply defending the interest of its members and their citizens, wether on the Irish border or about the right of EU citizens resident in Britain. That you see that as enmity is exactly the kind of "expecting the EU to bend over backward".

Quote

The UK’s House of Lords has been warned that Britain will be made an example of by the European Union, if it votes to quit the bloc in the upcoming referendum.

Furious EU nations will force a draconian Brexit deal on the UK in a bid to deter other countries from leaving, the House of Lords Select Committee, which scrutinises British EU policy, was told in Brussels today (13 January).
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/house-of-lords-warned-eu-will-punish-uk-if-it-votes-for-brexit/

You can't lie to my face when the EU has made it clear for the last 2 years it is doing its best to punish the UK for leaving. To make an example of the UK to dissuade any other countries from daring to leave. There are not the actions of a neighbour protecting their interests, they are the actions of someone inflicting damage on a foreign entity for no personal gain: An enemy.

And I know you don't even believe in what you're saying. Cos on the one hand you believe the EU is almighty and the UK has no power, and on the other hand you believe the EU is being asked to bend over, when the UK is asking not for hegemony, but to not be given vindictive offers. Asking for our country to not be fucked over for spite is not asking the EU to bend over.

Quote from: Sheb on December 05, 2017, 08:50:17 am

Now, what about the British side?

We're currently more focused no bolstering the NHS. Our biggest priority is telling the EU to sod off with their demand for 50 billion euros.
So frankly you can see why our country would rather go on our own and work with none of the EU if the attitude demanded for us is for the UK to bend over and beg for more punishment. Oh but of course, 5th largest economy in the world, we're irrelevant. That's why the EU can afford to do trade deals with New Zealand and not the UK, because New Zealand is too powerful to ignore  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2017, 01:48:00 pm

Quote

You might as well fault the Prime Minister for representing Britain instead of the EU.

Actually this is a good point, as a member of the EU May should clearly advocate EU interests!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 03:29:40 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 05, 2017, 01:48:00 pm

Quote

You might as well fault the Prime Minister for representing Britain instead of the EU.

Actually this is a good point, as a member of the EU May should clearly advocate EU interests!

Some would argue she already does xD

*EDIT
Forgot a Tory own-goal, twinned with Ameripol; insulting Trump by rescinding his invitation to London. I can appreciate sticking up for your morals but the fact that she's perfectly fine inviting Saudis and Chinese officials but mean tweets crosses the line strikes me as an own-goal thing. In an ironic twist of things, because of the May-Trump feud, despite being the American candidate that supported Brexit, London is going to be the only European capital Trump hasn't visited.
GJ May, bravo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 05, 2017, 05:26:03 pm

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/364/840/474.jpg)
You DO realize that Trump's purpose, as far as he had any purpose at all, was Brexit-as-a-way-to-increase-US-influence (over the UK that is), right? That guy wasnt going to bail you out of problems. He thrives in causing problems as to make himself necessary, rather. He was a poor ally pre brexit and post brexit he's an anglerfish. Stay clear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2017, 05:33:46 pm

There's really not all that much benefit from buttering up Trump. He's a fair-weather ally at the best of times, and deals with the US go through the Senate anyway. Considering Trump's own problems with Congress and his tendency to be a walking clusterfuck when he's abroad, keeping him away might have been a smart move. Not to mention the nonzero chance that the Scots just fucking riot and burn down his golf courses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 06:08:10 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 05, 2017, 05:26:03 pm

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/364/840/474.jpg)
You DO realize that Trump's purpose, as far as he had any purpose at all, was Brexit-as-a-way-to-increase-US-influence (over the UK that is), right? That guy wasnt going to bail you out of problems. He thrives in causing problems as to make himself necessary, rather. He was a poor ally pre brexit and post brexit he's an anglerfish. Stay clear.

Short answer: Yes
Longer answer: Yeeeeeeees

Without Trump causing problems to make himself necessary, the US-UK relationship is inherently necessary

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2017, 05:33:46 pm

There's really not all that much benefit from buttering up Trump. He's a fair-weather ally at the best of times, and deals with the US go through the Senate anyway. Considering Trump's own problems with Congress and his tendency to be a walking clusterfuck when he's abroad, keeping him away might have been a smart move. Not to mention the nonzero chance that the Scots just fucking riot and burn down his golf courses.

There is one clear benefit: He is very petty, and to what lengths he will deliberately fuck shit up because someone offended him on twitter is self-demonstrable

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 05, 2017, 06:09:09 pm

The Scots are an inscrutable folk. _{Summons the wild Owlbread.}

As far as British American relations go, it's still not good to actively peeve off the leader of one of the most powerful states in the world. For a tweet. Besides, Trump is (however disliked) an embodiment of America. You are not just denying him access, you are snubbing America - a stance which Congress is hardly going to appreciate.

May is such a twit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2017, 07:17:58 pm

To be fair, May isn't the one pissing off Trump, it's Trump being pissy while May tries to defend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 07:59:51 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 05, 2017, 07:17:58 pm

To be fair, May isn't the one pissing off Trump, it's Trump being pissy while May tries to defend.

Aye, and Trump is completely out of order making fun of our terrorist attacks, but you must understand that when adults and children fight, it's up to the adult to be responsible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2017, 08:03:22 pm

May isn't responsible, she's ruined wheat fields across the nation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on December 05, 2017, 08:09:19 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 06:09:09 pm

Besides, Trump is (however disliked) an embodiment of America. You are not just denying him access, you are snubbing America - a stance which Congress is hardly going to appreciate.

Hardly. Over half the country are delighted the Orange One is getting publicly undercut. He's an embodiment of HIS half of America.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 08:16:45 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2017, 08:03:22 pm

May isn't responsible, she's ruined wheat fields across the nation.

So I told Theresa May to run in a wheat field... And she did it the absolute madman ahahah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2017, 08:34:58 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2017, 08:16:45 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2017, 08:03:22 pm

May isn't responsible, she's ruined wheat fields across the nation.

So I told Theresa May to run in a wheat field... And she did it the absolute madman ahahah

Yeah, I read about that when she was asked about the worst or most embarrasing or most rebel thing she did as a teenager, and that was what she gave. Hard to tell if she just gave a Hillary-esque politically safe vanilla answer or if she didn't do anything funny or notable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 11:04:10 am

Quote from: RedKing on December 05, 2017, 08:09:19 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 05, 2017, 06:09:09 pm

Besides, Trump is (however disliked) an embodiment of America. You are not just denying him access, you are snubbing America - a stance which Congress is hardly going to appreciate.

Hardly. Over half the country are delighted the Orange One is getting publicly undercut. He's an embodiment of HIS half of America.

Not quite my point. It doesn't matter whether you love him or hate him. On the World Stage, he is the representation of America. Like that or not. Denying a nation's leader access is about more than just denying one man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 11:38:09 am

Two arrested over foiled plot to assassinate Prime Minister Theresa May (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/05/mi5-foils-islamist-terror-plot-kill-prime-minister/)
:O

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 11:44:09 am

Multiculturalism does, indeed, create a stronger society  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 11:49:17 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 11:38:09 am

Two arrested over foiled plot to assassinate Prime Minister Theresa May (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/05/mi5-foils-islamist-terror-plot-kill-prime-minister/)
:O

Only one guy is actually being charged with that. Gotta wonder whether he planned it alone because it'd have to be done when they know Theresa May is in the building, and possibly where in the building she is, in order to be sure of actually reaching the target.

If he had actually be able to do it, it'd be an intel and security failure of epically colossal proportions.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 11:44:09 am

Multiculturalism does, indeed, create a stronger society  ::)

There is absolutely no information on the guy and you're blaming it on multiculturalism already? I find that stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 06, 2017, 11:54:15 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 11:49:17 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 11:44:09 am

Multiculturalism does, indeed, create a stronger society  ::)

There is absolutely no information on the guy and you're blaming it on multiculturalism already? I find that stupid.

It's not polite to say that brown people are evil and shouldn't be let in, but saying "multiculturalism" is at fault let you get around the PC crowd.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 12:25:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 11:49:17 am

Only one guy is actually being charged with that. Gotta wonder whether he planned it alone because it'd have to be done when they know Theresa May is in the building, and possibly where in the building she is, in order to be sure of actually reaching the target.
If he had actually be able to do it, it'd be an intel and security failure of epically colossal proportions.

You can use publicly available information to know when, since our politicians tend to be open about where they are, especially when they're moving between London and European capitals in this time

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 11:49:17 am

There is absolutely no information on the guy and you're blaming it on multiculturalism already? I find that stupid.

"Naa'imur Zakariyah Rahman, 20, allegedly planned to launch a bomb attack on the security gates outside Downing Street before detonating a suicide vest in Number 10 in a bid to kill Theresa May."
You saying he's an Englishman?

Quote from: Sheb on December 06, 2017, 11:54:15 am

It's not polite to say that brown people are evil and shouldn't be let in, but saying "multiculturalism" is at fault let you get around the PC crowd.

Do you honestly believe anything gets around the PC crowd? No, they'll be offended by anything, and they'll definitely be offended if you criticize multiculturalism. I believe the real issue is multiculturalism is not a shield to justify why you're letting in people who want to kill you for who you are

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 12:41:24 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 12:25:45 pm

I believe the real issue is multiculturalism is not a shield to justify why you're letting in people who want to kill you for who you are

Exactly, because for every terrorist, there are a thousand who just want to be treated as equals and get along. I wasn't offended at the attack on 'multiculturalism', I was attacking the use of it as an excuse.

England has been 'multiculti' for longer than you realize. You guys in Europe are just doing it wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 02:02:54 pm

One person bent on destruction and blood in a thousand and one says nothing to you about the thousand?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on December 06, 2017, 02:10:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 02:02:54 pm

One person bent on destruction and blood in a thousand and one says nothing to you about the thousand?

No more than Ted Kaczynski or Timothy McVeigh tell me that respectively mathematicians and US veterans are inclined to domestic terrorism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 02:13:46 pm

Is there a culture supporting terrorism in the US army or with mathematicians? I wasn't aware.

If it were just a case of one deviant immigrant with a bomb, we'd not have blockades on our Christmas festivities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 02:15:50 pm

Quote from: Culise on December 06, 2017, 02:10:08 pm

No more than Ted Kaczynski or Timothy McVeigh tell me that respectively mathematicians and US veterans are inclined to domestic terrorism.

You're right, individuals don't indicate an inclination to domestic terrorism, but the presence of islamist groups, militias and such indicate which Americans are prone to domestic terrorism (https://apps.revealnews.org/homegrown-terror/)

*EDIT

Quote

There are 201 incidents in the database, sorted broadly as Islamist, right wing (including white supremacists, militias and members of the so-called Patriot and sovereign citizens movements), and left wing (including animal right militants, environmentalists, anarchists and Black Lives Matter sympathizers).

tfw everyone ignores animal rights terrorists lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 06, 2017, 02:20:03 pm

Quote from: Culise on December 06, 2017, 02:10:08 pm

No more than Ted Kaczynski or Timothy McVeigh tell me that respectively mathematicians and US veterans are inclined to domestic terrorism.

I went to go check whether the holy book of Mathematics explicitly advises killing apostates, but it turns out mathematicians don't even have a holy book! How weird is that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 02:34:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 02:15:50 pm

Quote from: Culise on December 06, 2017, 02:10:08 pm

No more than Ted Kaczynski or Timothy McVeigh tell me that respectively mathematicians and US veterans are inclined to domestic terrorism.

You're right, individuals don't indicate an inclination to domestic terrorism, but the presence of islamist groups, militias and such indicate which Americans are prone to domestic terrorism (https://apps.revealnews.org/homegrown-terror/)

*EDIT

Quote

There are 201 incidents in the database, sorted broadly as Islamist, right wing (including white supremacists, militias and members of the so-called Patriot and sovereign citizens movements), and left wing (including animal right militants, environmentalists, anarchists and Black Lives Matter sympathizers).

tfw everyone ignores animal rights terrorists lmao

Back in the 60's and 70's, there were many more left wing militant groups, now the only apparently active one (which take up a majority of the left wing ones on that map) is the militant version of PETA. Right wing terrorism/terroristic acts is/are evidently much more of a problem than islamic terrorism/terroristic acts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 02:52:06 pm

Quote

As for the rest of it, I'd like to point out that if this was as strong an ideological pull as some people would seem to think (that is, the extreme-Islam must-kill-people Salafism), this wouldn't even make the news because it'd be a daily occurrence

It's strong enough a pull to make people who were born in Britain, educated in the same schools as our children, kill themselves trying to damage it. That's more than strong enough.

It leaves one wondering just how many of our grateful (?) immigrant families have children which aren't prepared to kill themselves, but are still diametrically opposed to everything Britain stands for. Whose ears are open to the ideology, and who are willing to spread it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 06, 2017, 02:57:24 pm

Just as grateful as the natives (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/15/crime-rises-among-second-generation-immigrants-as-they-assimilate/), I imagine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 03:06:11 pm

Are there any non-islamic left wing or right wing terrorism or terroristic acts in England? because the ones commited by muslims tend to be the ones we hear about on either side of the Atlantic.

I mean, look at that map LW posted earlier, is there a similar dataset for England because while ones committed by muslims get coverage, it doesn't mean the others are happening. I doubt the UK has any fewer (proportional to population) non-muslim left wing or right wing people that resort to violence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 03:14:14 pm

Quote from: Ispil on December 06, 2017, 02:56:47 pm

Would you prefer we start preemptively rounding them up, just in case?

Nope. That IS a solution, but it's unfortunately lacking in the ethics department. Instead, I'd like people to be aware that a less porous border is not - *sigh* - racist. Those already in our country, I believe, are there to stay most likely. No point in continuing to hit ourselves over the head with a rock, just in case the tenth strike doesn't hurt.

There is no imperative on the British people to allow individuals or groups into the nation whose ideology opposes the state, its religion, or its ethos.

Or, at least, there won't be after Brexit.

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 03:06:11 pm

-snip -

Sure, it's called the Troubles. Besides that....

Since 2010, there have been two terrorist attacks for the right wing. One killed Jo Cox, the other involved a vehicle and a group of Muslims near a mosque. This was out of nine attacks, the rest being immigrant-perpetrated.

Here's the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain I didn't look before 2010.

Both attacks by the right wing I remember being a big deal in the news. Not sure about across the Atlantic, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on December 06, 2017, 03:25:30 pm

I think the reasons that second-generation immigrants are much more likely to be radicalized are similar to the reasons that youth gangs form in general. Disenfranchisement, lack of strong community roots etc. If you're growing up as part of a dominant social strata then your way less likely to be interested in fringe politics, and going to be more interested in your own career and starting a family. When opportunities aren't there, and the normal structures for mentoring and role models aren't there, you get violent youth gangs, regardless of race or religion. Then, it's easy for someone to come along and radicalize these people. They lack identity and meaning in their lives: the radical preacher offers that to them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 03:25:52 pm

Right wing attacks are big in the news, usually the ones that get people killed, but the focus of the governments ire (and people in general) has been on muslims, rather than right wing stuff, which make up the majority of the markers on the map.

I'm not saying islamic terrorism should be ignored or paid less attention to, just that in the United States at least, Right wing stuff is more of an issue than islamic stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2017, 05:26:54 pm

That's a very reasonable concern. US media is full of too much fake news, or news that is so distorted it might as well be fake

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 07:36:13 pm

Kinda makes the BBC bias look cute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 06, 2017, 09:03:17 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 07:36:13 pm

Kinda makes the BBC bias look cute.

As a US dweller, I consider the BBC almost as reliable as the AP, at least for news over here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 06, 2017, 09:23:50 pm

Non-British stuff isn’t generally fine in terms of impartiality.

Bizarre since, by law, they need to be impartial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on December 07, 2017, 12:57:22 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 02:13:46 pm

Is there a culture supporting terrorism in the US army or with mathematicians? I wasn't aware.

If it were just a case of one deviant immigrant with a bomb, we'd not have blockades on our Christmas festivities.

Great, then make that case and not just that "one person in a thousand is plotting nasty acts, therefore I'll imply that says something about the thousand automatically."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 01:08:03 pm

No, I think if you consistently find terrorists within a group of people (ie repeatedly finding one blood-hungry killer in a group of a thousand and one) it says a lot about the group they come from.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 07, 2017, 01:13:25 pm

Like young men for example?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 07, 2017, 01:20:38 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 07, 2017, 01:13:25 pm

Like young men for example?

There absolutely is a lesson to be learned there about the biology and psychology of young men and their relation to society, yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 07, 2017, 01:21:37 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 07, 2017, 01:13:25 pm

Like young men for example?

What's the probability of "young man" being the reason for terrorism vs "Islamic ideology"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 01:25:15 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 07, 2017, 01:13:25 pm

Like young men for example?

Sure. To be more specific, though, it ought best to be written "young Islamic men."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2017, 01:34:25 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2017, 03:14:14 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 03:06:11 pm

-snip -

Sure, it's called the Troubles. Besides that....

Since 2010, there have been two terrorist attacks for the right wing. One killed Jo Cox, the other involved a vehicle and a group of Muslims near a mosque. This was out of nine attacks, the rest being immigrant-perpetrated.

Here's the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain I didn't look before 2010.

Both attacks by the right wing I remember being a big deal in the news. Not sure about across the Atlantic, though.

I wonder what the stats like for foiled terror plots are. MI5 currently seem to be intercepting more than half of all plots, but I wonder if they're better at stopping islamic terror than right-wing/homegrown terror due to their focus on islamists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 01:47:50 pm

I wouldn't say so. If you look at the list 'Arrests, detentions, and other incidents related to the Terrorism Acts' on that Wikipedia page, I see a few Anglo-seeming names on it. An Oxford Graduate, for instance, was arrested because he was taking a picture of a man-hole cover, and only released when no such photos were found.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 07, 2017, 01:50:40 pm

How the fuck is taking a picture of a manhole cover a criminal offense?

I'm fairly sure info on those is some sort of public record somewhere if their size/shape was ever decided by any governing body.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 02:01:26 pm

https://boingboing.net/2009/03/03/manchester-man-arres.html

That's the most I could find. Seems like an extreme reaction, IMO, though it certainly proves they don't give preference to British suspects, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 07, 2017, 02:57:45 pm

Is there any possibility of the dude suing the fuckers? Because that shit looks like atleast some sort of baseless abuse and violation of rights.

Unrelated, what's with this supposed denouncement of the US coming from Germany now. This some sort of official stance or just a dude with a bone to pick with no regard to international relations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on December 07, 2017, 03:00:21 pm

The dude with no regard for international relations is over here in the US, and it just so happens that everything he says is our official stance by definition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 07, 2017, 03:28:45 pm

Sure, but the US doesn't neccessarily hold the monopoly on twats in power, however hard you guys might be trying :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2017, 06:44:15 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 07, 2017, 02:57:45 pm

Is there any possibility of the dude suing the fuckers? Because that shit looks like atleast some sort of baseless abuse and violation of rights.

Unrelated, what's with this supposed denouncement of the US coming from Germany now. This some sort of official stance or just a dude with a bone to pick with no regard to international relations.

Is it over the decision to declare Jerusalem the capitol of Israel? Most of our allies are berating the US over the decision.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2017, 07:43:05 am

The Netherlands is sueing Germany at the European Court, for discriminating against foreigners with their new highway tolls.
German drivers are fully compensated for the tolls by the German state through a lowering of vehicle taxes. Foreign drivers do not get this compensation.

According to international lawyers, Netherlands has a strong case, and Germany might be forced soon to abandon it's (politically sensitive) tolls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2017, 07:46:55 am

Germany: More solidarity in the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on December 13, 2017, 08:02:33 am

Its a super short-sighted idea of Germany in the first place.

Why shouldn't other countries do the same to them?

Do they think Germans never use other countries roads as well?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2017, 08:07:23 am

I think they were essential to making government budget ends meet last government formation or something like that. They were already controversial before they were instated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 13, 2017, 08:24:55 am

Quote from: Antioch on December 13, 2017, 08:02:33 am

Its a super short-sighted idea of Germany in the first place.

Why shouldn't other countries do the same to them?

Do they think Germans never use other countries roads as well?

Well, some other countries do have highway toll you know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 13, 2017, 09:29:38 am

You have to pay the troll toll (https://youtu.be/aDhAEmODyzw)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2017, 10:14:37 am

The conflict between Poland and the EU intensifies.
The EU Commission has decided to go for the 'nuclear option'. They have initiated the unprecedented article 7.1 procedure.
All EU member states will now vote on whether Poland will lose all it's voting rights in the EU until it stops violating European democratic values.

According to the EU commission, the reforms of the legal system in Poland place the judicial system under direct control of the political establishment, and with that they are violating the separation of powers to an extent that is no longer tolerable for the EU, and in direct contravention of the EU's core values.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 20, 2017, 11:03:21 am

It has already come to a stalemate.
Hungary has stated that it will veto any sanctions against Poland. And since all member states have veto right on sanctions in the article 7 procedure, it ends here for now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2017, 11:12:10 am

Evidently the Visegrad Group countries are sticking up for each other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 20, 2017, 11:20:02 am

Orban is simply covering his own ass. If Poland would be held to higher standards, Orban's Hungary would be next on the list.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 20, 2017, 11:23:50 am

It's also probably a bit of a defensive huddle as they see their more traditional christian values under siege by forced immigration and continuous pushing of multiculturalism. After all, eastern european countries have plenty of expirience when it comes to being pushed around and stepped on by bigger players, it's only natural of them to act defensively, strenght of the pack and all that jazz.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 20, 2017, 11:50:36 am

Laugh out loudable, when have the Germans ever done anything to Poland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 20, 2017, 12:15:55 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 20, 2017, 11:23:50 am

It's also probably a bit of a defensive huddle as they see their more traditional christian values under siege by forced immigration and continuous pushing of multiculturalism. After all, eastern european countries have plenty of expirience when it comes to being pushed around and stepped on by bigger players, it's only natural of them to act defensively, strenght of the pack and all that jazz.

Right, because everyone know that an independent judiciary is basically sharia law. Look it up sheeple!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 20, 2017, 01:17:43 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2017, 12:15:55 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 20, 2017, 11:23:50 am

It's also probably a bit of a defensive huddle as they see their more traditional christian values under siege by forced immigration and continuous pushing of multiculturalism. After all, eastern european countries have plenty of expirience when it comes to being pushed around and stepped on by bigger players, it's only natural of them to act defensively, strenght of the pack and all that jazz.

Right, because everyone know that an independent judiciary is basically sharia law. Look it up sheeple!

Slippery slope. Not on your part, but theirs. If the EU can push for the Polish/Hungarian/Wherever judiciary to be the way they want to be, then they can push for other things. Might even be correct, but who knows.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2017, 07:08:06 pm

Looks like we've forgotten about the Catalonia snap election, which is tomorrow (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42228131). Further information on it (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42412264).

Kind of sounds like the separatists might get a close majority, hard to tell.

Quote from: Teneb on December 20, 2017, 01:17:43 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2017, 12:15:55 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 20, 2017, 11:23:50 am

It's also probably a bit of a defensive huddle as they see their more traditional christian values under siege by forced immigration and continuous pushing of multiculturalism. After all, eastern european countries have plenty of expirience when it comes to being pushed around and stepped on by bigger players, it's only natural of them to act defensively, strenght of the pack and all that jazz.

Right, because everyone know that an independent judiciary is basically sharia law. Look it up sheeple!

Slippery slope. Not on your part, but theirs. If the EU can push for the Polish/Hungarian/Wherever judiciary to be the way they want to be, then they can push for other things. Might even be correct, but who knows.

Poland isn't backing down anyway. (https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-rule-of-law-wont-back-down-from-brussels-eu/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on December 21, 2017, 06:09:41 am

Quote from: Teneb on December 20, 2017, 01:17:43 pm

Quote from: Sheb on December 20, 2017, 12:15:55 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 20, 2017, 11:23:50 am

It's also probably a bit of a defensive huddle as they see their more traditional christian values under siege by forced immigration and continuous pushing of multiculturalism. After all, eastern european countries have plenty of expirience when it comes to being pushed around and stepped on by bigger players, it's only natural of them to act defensively, strenght of the pack and all that jazz.

Right, because everyone know that an independent judiciary is basically sharia law. Look it up sheeple!

Slippery slope. Not on your part, but theirs. If the EU can push for the Polish/Hungarian/Wherever judiciary to be the way they want to be, then they can push for other things. Might even be correct, but who knows.

More like Jopax mixing things up I think. The refugees quota are wildly unpopular in eastern Europe, but it's a separate issue. Even allies of Poland and Hungary on the refugee issues are siding with the Commission on the judiciary thing. It will be interesting to see exactly how the vote falls on the 29th of January.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2017, 01:31:58 pm

Spoiler: And now for something completely different: (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/fIHIOsO.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 21, 2017, 01:35:16 pm

Lol, nice going Portugal and Spain.

Also, WTH Turkey?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on December 21, 2017, 01:41:04 pm

Seems like Turkey and Croatia are in desperate need of sex ed.

The Czechs... well, at least they're looking for a job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 21, 2017, 01:43:45 pm

I have a feeling that if Spain and Portugal teamed up, they could really go places. Portugal could kill people, and Spain could eat them, thereby making sure there was no evidence pointing towards the Portugese.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 21, 2017, 01:45:43 pm

Do you have friends, scriver?

I’m sad they didn’t have separate things for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 21, 2017, 01:48:12 pm

Belarus being useful, Serbia maining Zerg, Romania seems usual, Belgium culturally enriched, Slovenia is my bois

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 21, 2017, 01:55:41 pm

They must only let their women use the internet in Italy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 21, 2017, 01:57:17 pm

lol @ Greece too late lads.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2017, 02:06:48 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 21, 2017, 01:45:43 pm

Do you have friends, scriver?

 :'( :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 21, 2017, 06:57:12 pm

Russia is like, philosophical in that one. Secret Buddhists?

Catalonia to Spain: Checkmate*, your move Spain (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42450745) as the separatist groups have roughly the same majority as they did before. The dynamics are a bit different though as the largest party is a group that want semi-autonomy in Spain. Still, it's Spain's move now since they're roughly back at square one.

*Yes, I know checkmate is game-over in chess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Uhh.. It's not Spain's move until Catalonia forms a new regional government. And the vote was about 50/50. Again. So not checkmate. The pro-independence parties got slightly more seats, but slightly under 50 % of the vote. With such numbers, if Pudgemount & pals decide to declare independence unilaterally again, it won't be recognized. Except maybe by Trump and/or Putin, because they don't like united Europe.

Half of the Catalan population don't want independence. If independence would be so great for Catalonia, why can't Pudgemount & pals sell the independence idea to them? Are they doing this the British way?

Here are some questions I'd like to know about the Catalan independence movement:
Why should Catalonia become independent? ("Spain sucks" is not a satisfactory answer.)
What would independent Catalonia be like? (Realistically. "Member of the EU" is not realistic, unless Catalans manage to sell their independence idea to Spain first.)
They want independence, but want to be part of the EU as well. How much more independence would this get them really?

Honestly, it seems to me the pro-independence agitators are just that. Petty politicians who have nothing better to do than try to grab more power for themselves. If the only thing the Catalan parliament does is organize an independence referendum once a year, it serves no purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 22, 2017, 01:32:57 pm

The pro-independence parties lost two seats cumulatively, so, the majority is actually slightly smaller than previously. And I was speaking metaphorically.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 22, 2017, 02:02:36 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Here are some questions I'd like to know about the Catalan independence movement:

I'd try approaching the Catalan independence movement rather than bay12. Just a suggestion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 22, 2017, 02:44:57 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Half of the Catalan population don't want independence. If independence would be so great for Catalonia, why can't Pudgemount & pals sell the independence idea to them? Are they doing this the British way?

Most issues in democracies lie with how an idea can be sold, not the merits of the idea. Consider how in the Thirteen Colonies, the Independence faction back then had the support of 40-45% of White Americans, but looking at the USA today (or perhaps, the USA a couple of years ago) you would be hard pressed to argue against the idea that independence brought great benefits.
As to the actual merits of Catalonian Independence, I am not qualified to answer this. If you ask me, there's no use in gaining independence from Madrid but not Berlin lmao, but again, I do not represent Catalonians.

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Here are some questions I'd like to know about the Catalan independence movement:
Why should Catalonia become independent? ("Spain sucks" is not a satisfactory answer.)

Greater autonomy (not absolute, because EU), a sovereign Catalonian government would be able to promote Catalonian culture & language without treading on any toes in Spain, Catalonia would not be subject to Madrid-loyal police and military presence. There are other reasons Catalonian ppl would argue about, but imo the former three are objective reasons in favour of independence.

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

What would independent Catalonia be like? (Realistically. "Member of the EU" is not realistic, unless Catalans manage to sell their independence idea to Spain first.)

A small but moderately wealthy nation with a small maritime presence with close links to the EU. I think it is more unrealistic to expect that the EU would allow an independent and pro-EU state like Catalonia to remain in the Meditteranean, it is simply too important, easy and beneficial for the EU to incorporate a state that has already been a member. Thus while it is possible Spain could continually retard EU efforts to keep Catalonia out, EU-Catalonian cooperation would bind the latter state in so many treaties it would be mostly irrelevant whether they were an official member or not - they'd bed de facto a member of most EU institutions. Could divided Spain really stand up to Italy, France & Germany? Not likely, especially since the EU could just keep continually trying to incorporate Catalonia until Spain failed. Spain only needs to fail once.

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

They want independence, but want to be part of the EU as well. How much more independence would this get them really?

Not that much, but it would change their relationship with the world. For example, within the EU their relationship would change, Barcelona would represent them within the EU instead of Madrid. They would be allowed to develop their own military infrastructure & policy, they would be free from the authority of the Spanish Constitution & Constitutional Court, allowing them to propose & implement legislature in accordance with their own newly adopted principles or constitution. There is also the option that even if Catalonian independence is not desired by the majority of Catalonians, Catalonians do not want the Madrid government to take their hesitancy as tacit approval to ignore their calls for greater autonomy. Thus the threat of independence can be used as a tool, to prove to Madrid that they are serious and if their autonomy requests are denied, may result in full blow independence attempts.

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Honestly, it seems to me the pro-independence agitators are just that. Petty politicians who have nothing better to do than try to grab more power for themselves.

It could be so, but you must look beyond the scheming of petty politicians to also grasp that many ordinary people are more than willing to be used by petty politicians if it means they can in turn use petty politicians for their own ends. Look at how in the USA these people like Clinton and Trump can openly declare their ambitions, and they will win the support of millions, if those millions believe it will sow discord into their enemies & rivals.
What I argue is that petty politicians are not the sole root of any problem, acting as a catalyst to problems already existing. If the multitude of any peoples had few problems to protest, how would petty power mongerers have any power? With no support, they are just a boring office worker. With support, they become a leader. If Madrid can solve the grievances of Catalonians, the support for independence from centrist Catalonians will fade.

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

If the only thing the Catalan parliament does is organize an independence referendum once a year, it serves no purpose.

But is not a change to the structure better than burning it down? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on December 23, 2017, 12:37:06 am

I am very much in conflict to LWs opinions in general on stuff. He seems to be obsessed with the idea of sovereignty to an odd extent. I am of the opinion that craving off bits just because your unhappy is not a very good move and that the opposite should be happening in most circumstances. the whole situation is just people wanting more power, lots of different people on different sides. of course its also too many people interest too keep the conflict going so as to remain in power by using it for support. The constant enemy that you don't want to actually beat so you can blame them for everything. Their are of course lots of people who got caught if in nationalistic romanticism or think this will help them in some way, they are mostly wrong in that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 23, 2017, 08:02:04 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on December 23, 2017, 12:37:06 am

Their are of course lots of people who got caught if in nationalistic romanticism or think this will help them in some way, they are mostly wrong in that.

Er... citation needed.

Rajoy has shown he doesn’t have the interests of the Catalans at heart, ‘cause he kicked the shit out of them for something he could very easily after the fact have said “nah, bro, doesn’t count” and the Catalans in this election reducing the number of seats his party has to three, while maintaining a separatist majority, with the largest party being separate from that, but supporters of more power for the region.

A small group of people in a government cannot represent millions of people, it’s impossible. This is why you get nationalist movements, movements for more devolution. Party politics is stupid, and career politicians are shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 23, 2017, 09:00:38 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 23, 2017, 08:02:04 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on December 23, 2017, 12:37:06 am

Their are of course lots of people who got caught if in nationalistic romanticism or think this will help them in some way, they are mostly wrong in that.

Er... citation needed.

Rajoy has shown he doesn’t have the interests of the Catalans at heart, ‘cause he kicked the shit out of them for something he could very easily after the fact have said “nah, bro, doesn’t count” and the Catalans in this election reducing the number of seats his party has to three, while maintaining a separatist majority, with the largest party being separate from that, but supporters of more power for the region.

A small group of people in a government cannot represent millions of people, it’s impossible. This is why you get nationalist movements, movements for more devolution. Party politics is stupid, and career politicians are shit.

Quote

with the largest party being separate from that, but supporters of more power for the region.

You're badly misreading Ciudadanos.  They are very much not in support of more self goverment for Catalonia. For all practical intent and purposes they are a radical splinter of the PP, and have been the foremost defenders of police actions during the first of October
The good news is that their "growth"  has been mostly at the expense of the PP, so no cryptofascist inflation, thank the heavens.



If these elections prove anything is that neither the secesionists nor the unionists are going to go away anytime soon, so they should sit down and negotiate.  Not that it's going to happen,...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 23, 2017, 09:27:26 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on December 23, 2017, 12:37:06 am

I am very much in conflict to LWs opinions in general on stuff. He seems to be obsessed with the idea of sovereignty to an odd extent.

No worries, this is just a consequence of us thinking differently. Bay12 is good then, in allowing conflict without conflict :P

Quote from: redwallzyl on December 23, 2017, 12:37:06 am

I am of the opinion that craving off bits just because your unhappy is not a very good move and that the opposite should be happening in most circumstances. the whole situation is just people wanting more power, lots of different people on different sides. of course its also too many people interest too keep the conflict going so as to remain in power by using it for support. The constant enemy that you don't want to actually beat so you can blame them for everything. Their are of course lots of people who got caught if in nationalistic romanticism or think this will help them in some way, they are mostly wrong in that.

We are in agreement on the first part. Carving off of bits of pre-existing states just because you're unhappy is not a very good move. That does not mean the opposite should be happening, nor is unhappiness the sole justification for any of these movements, from Catalan to China. The latter part is just entirely wrong in regards to Catalonia, at least in so far as the Catalonians do not gain any power by prolonging the conflict, and do not desire to prolong the conflict.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 23, 2017, 05:02:25 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 22, 2017, 01:32:57 pm

The pro-independence parties lost two seats cumulatively, so, the majority is actually slightly smaller than previously. And I was speaking metaphorically.

Sorry... I'm just getting fed up of something so unnecessary filling up the news again and again...  ::)

What I wouldn't mind reading in the news for a change is them finally deciding to sit down and negotiate, like ChairmanPoo brought up.

But I don't think it's going to happen without a few more rounds of merry-go-round first either...

Quote from: scriver on December 22, 2017, 02:02:36 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 22, 2017, 01:20:24 pm

Here are some questions I'd like to know about the Catalan independence movement:

I'd try approaching the Catalan independence movement rather than bay12. Just a suggestion.

I don't really care that much :) And I've got a feeling those guys would use a lot more and a lot fancier words than the good reply LW wrote, and that their answer would also paint a paradise-like picture of independent Catalonia.

I don't feel like either side has acted particularly grown up so far. Pro-independence Catalans keep antagonizing Spain, even though they know that independence for Catalonia would at best mean a slightly larger cut of their taxes remaining in their territory (which would then be used for border control, military, and whatever else is currently organized by Spain), while Spain could easily just ignore them or, even better, open talks about Catalonia's autonomy starting from the original Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Autonomy_of_Catalonia) and negotiating the unacceptable points instead of having the Constitutional Court rewrite the thing.

I hope EU leaders are also getting fed up with the Catalan question and someone finds the time from Brexit, immigration, Poland, Hungary, Trump, Putin, and all the other stuff on their desk to force the children to sit on the same table and discuss the issue in constructive manner. (not gonna hold my breath)

While waiting for that to happen, I guess I'm off to ask google how to become an Olympian. Not sure if it'll tell me about how to become a deity or an athlete. I'm hoping for the former, but the latter is cool too.

(Though really I need to unpack and pack. We just got home from my gf's folks today, and we're heading to my folks tomorrow for a slightly different set of x-mas food.)

-----
Edit: Speaking of Catalonia, The Guardian just published an opinion by a Spanish writer and journalist summing up the current situation (https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2017/dec/23/madrid-barcelona-catalonia-nationalists-spanish-government-trust-fate).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 23, 2017, 05:36:09 pm

I guess it bears reiterating that the only reason the Catalan nationalists are even talking about separation in the first place is because Madrid has completely refused to deliver or even discuss the self-governmental authorities Catalonia was promised back then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 23, 2017, 06:01:58 pm

The Netherlands is sick and tired of New Year's Eve having turned into a 'throw heavy illegal fireworks at emergency workers and unsuspecting people night'.
The Public prosecutor's office has declared that this year, throwing fireworks will not lead to a misdemeanor charge or fine, but instead will be treated as attempted manslaughter, and that will be the legal charge you face for being drunk rowdy idiots.
Expect a lot of 15 year old kids in jail next year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 23, 2017, 11:37:38 pm

Throwing fireworks used to be a misdemeanor? And throwing them at emergency workers too? D:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 24, 2017, 03:17:50 am

Not if the emergency workers actually got injured. But if not, yeah, misdemeanor.

Scary stuff, illegal fireworks. Police confiscated a batch of 'firecrackers' this year with thrice the explosive force of a handgrenade.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 24, 2017, 12:17:23 pm

Seems strange to go for attempted manslaughter rather than assault with a deadly weapon. Isn't the key part of manslaughter that you didn't mean to kill them, anyway? How can you attempt to accidentally kill someone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2017, 12:27:06 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 24, 2017, 12:17:23 pm

Seems strange to go for attempted manslaughter rather than assault with a deadly weapon. Isn't the key part of manslaughter that you didn't mean to kill them, anyway? How can you attempt to accidentally kill someone?

Usually applies to the actions of complete morons. For example in the USA, the youths who dropped rocks on overpasses over highways. Their intention was to ruin someone's car, their effect was to make drivers crash 80mph into slabs of concrete. They attempted manslaughter, which is much the same with these firework people. It's probable they only want to seriously maim the emergency workers, not kill them, but the effect is what you'd expect from throwing explosives at anyone. Morons + power

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 24, 2017, 12:36:46 pm

Manslaughter, in English legalese, is the action of causing lethal consequences (or in attempted manslaughter's case, causing very lethal situation) without having had murderous intent, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 24, 2017, 12:54:24 pm

maslaughter has intent, or at least the accepted risk to kill, just not premeditated

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 24, 2017, 01:53:17 pm

There's also various sliding concerns with mitigating and aggravating factors in US murder law.  For example, if a long abused older teenager plots and murders their abusive parent, that's technically first degree murder, but if the severity of what they suffered and their mindset is bad enough you as a prosecuting attorney are gonna have one hell of a time standing up before a jury and convincing them that this is a 25-to-Life worthy action. They could well dismiss the charge no matter the clarity of the evidence against the defendant out of sympathy or flat out agreement. So you might drop the level of charge to manslaughter, or even criminal negligence to have a better shot at getting past arguments that they suffered extreme provocation.

There was also recently an example of how things can go very wrong for an overzealous prosecutor in the Garcia Zarate case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle), where seeking a second-degree murder and manslaughter charge in a case where messing around with a gun caused a ricochet that killed the victim lead to the jury dismissing every charge but possession of a stolen firearm.                           

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 24, 2017, 02:00:34 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 24, 2017, 01:53:17 pm

There's also various sliding concerns with mitigating and aggravating factors in US murder law.  For example, if a long abused older teenager plots and murders their abusive parent, that's technically first degree murder, but if the severity of what they suffered and their mindset is bad enough you as a prosecuting attorney are gonna have one hell of a time standing up before a jury and convincing them that this is a 25-to-Life worthy action. They could well dismiss the charge no matter the clarity of the evidence against the defendant out of sympathy or flat out agreement. So you might drop the level of charge to manslaughter, or even criminal negligence to have a better shot at getting past arguments that they suffered extreme provocation.

There was also recently an example of how things can go very wrong for an overzealous prosecutor in the Garcia Zarate case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle), where seeking a second-degree murder and manslaughter charge in a case where messing around with a gun caused a ricochet that killed the victim lead to the jury dismissing every charge but possession of a stolen firearm.                         

Quote

Garcia Zarate told ABC station KGO-TV in a jailhouse interview that he started wandering on Pier 14, a tourist attraction area at the Embarcadero waterfront district, Wednesday, July 1, after taking sleeping pills he found in a dumpster. He said he then picked up a gun that he found.

Lmao what the actual hell

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 24, 2017, 02:06:16 pm

Yeah, whether or not he stole the gun from the Land Management vehicle (this is LA we're talking about here, finding a stashed gun is not unbelievable) he definitely had it. The woman getting shot was certainly criminally negligent, but it's too much of an accidental outcome for manslaughter to be a safe bet and it's definitely not murder. Having the murder charge probably also made the jury distrustful of the prosecution's motives, combined with Trump politicizing the hell out of the case. Both of those are likely why they ended up turning against the manslaughter charge as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 24, 2017, 02:12:23 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 24, 2017, 01:53:17 pm

For example, if a long abused older teenager plots and murders their abusive parent, that's technically first degree murder, but if the severity of what they suffered and their mindset is bad enough you as a prosecuting attorney are gonna have one hell of a time standing up before a jury and convincing them that this is a 25-to-Life worthy action. They could well dismiss the charge no matter the clarity of the evidence against the defendant out of sympathy or flat out agreement. So you might drop the level of charge to manslaughter, or even criminal negligence to have a better shot at getting past arguments that they suffered extreme provocation.                         

Over here that example would most likely lead to a conviction of murder in the first degree, but with a complete discharge of punsihment or other legal consequence, on basis of psychological circumstances beyond the defendant's control.
For example there was this case of a 15 year old girl stabbing her physically absive brother to death after he kicked her in the stomach. This happened while she was pregnant from her father's sexual abuse. She was convicted of first degree murder because she premeditatedly went and grabbed a butcher knife from the kitchen and gutted her brother, but she received no sentence, and her criminal record was immediatly cleared.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on December 24, 2017, 10:07:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 24, 2017, 02:12:23 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 24, 2017, 01:53:17 pm

For example, if a long abused older teenager plots and murders their abusive parent, that's technically first degree murder, but if the severity of what they suffered and their mindset is bad enough you as a prosecuting attorney are gonna have one hell of a time standing up before a jury and convincing them that this is a 25-to-Life worthy action. They could well dismiss the charge no matter the clarity of the evidence against the defendant out of sympathy or flat out agreement. So you might drop the level of charge to manslaughter, or even criminal negligence to have a better shot at getting past arguments that they suffered extreme provocation.                         

Over here that example would most likely lead to a conviction of murder in the first degree, but with a complete discharge of punsihment or other legal consequence, on basis of psychological circumstances beyond the defendant's control.
For example there was this case of a 15 year old girl stabbing her physically absive brother to death after he kicked her in the stomach. This happened while she was pregnant from her father's sexual abuse. She was convicted of first degree murder because she premeditatedly went and grabbed a butcher knife from the kitchen and gutted her brother, but she received no sentence, and her criminal record was immediatly cleared.

I'm a bit surprised she didn't gut her dad as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 26, 2017, 11:37:50 am

So, the British royal wedding coming up is causing a bit of political drama with the government (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5210122/harry-meghan-wedding-trump-obama/). Obama is being invited to the wedding and I'm sure all of you know how Trump feels about Obama, so, they're worried that it'll upset Trump and make it harder for Theresa May to engage with Trump.

If anybody complains that its an article on The Sun, that's what Politico (https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2017/12/26/uk-govt-pleads-with-prince-harry-dont-invite-obama-to-your-wedding-because-trump-will-be-upset-trumps-hidden-cabinet-impeachment-debate-divides-dems-david-brooks-sidney-awards-234141) gave a link to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 26, 2017, 12:29:42 pm

Tbh why should Harry give a shit. Let him invite his friends to his wedding. If Theresa May was really concerned about maintaining good relations with Trump she wouldn't have started a fucking twitter feud with him, the Royals should not have to pick up her slack.

*EDIT
Obvious solution: Invite them both. Barack could show up and celebrate his m8s wedding, Trump could make an excuse to not arrive and send one of his family to represent him instead if he'd be too salto to behave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Fniff on December 26, 2017, 01:09:06 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 26, 2017, 12:29:42 pm

Trump could make an excuse to not arrive and send one of his family to represent him instead if he'd be too salto to behave.

This is just in, President Trump has declared war on the United Kingdom after the Queen made a joke about Trump Steaks.
The president then enacted the nuclear option, forgetting that he was still in Britain until it was too late. Cardiff and Swansea have just been hit, with more to follow.
That's it from us, and most likely humanity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 26, 2017, 01:23:56 pm

It's too late to appease Trump, I think. May is already on the wheatlist no matter what happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on December 26, 2017, 02:21:15 pm

Seems really weird to think about pleasing Trump, since it seems so obvious that every other leader does not respect him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 26, 2017, 04:08:33 pm

Nobody mentioned "GOVERNMENT mandarins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_orange) are urging Prince Harry not to invite the Obamas to his wedding for fear of infuriating Donald Trump" yet?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 26, 2017, 04:42:29 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 26, 2017, 04:08:33 pm

Nobody mentioned "GOVERNMENT mandarins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_orange) are urging Prince Harry not to invite the Obamas to his wedding for fear of infuriating Donald Trump" yet?

They obviously mean the chinese bureaucracy that not-so-secretly tries to control the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 26, 2017, 05:52:50 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 26, 2017, 04:08:33 pm

Nobody mentioned "GOVERNMENT mandarins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_orange) are urging Prince Harry not to invite the Obamas to his wedding for fear of infuriating Donald Trump" yet?

It's more this kind of mandarin, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_(bureaucrat)) unfortunately the Whitehall mandarin doesn't grow on trees or give you vitamin C

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 26, 2017, 01:23:56 pm

It's too late to appease Trump, I think. May is already on the wheatlist no matter what happens.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZvnwKMv.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on December 26, 2017, 05:57:56 pm

Aw, nobody getting the joke about the Tangerine in Chief?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 26, 2017, 06:07:06 pm

Quote from: Helgoland on December 26, 2017, 05:57:56 pm

Aw, nobody getting the joke about the Tangerine in Chief?

I always envisage him as more of a Peruvian caterpillar (http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-caterpillar-2016-9)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related Happy New Year
Post by: martinuzz on December 31, 2017, 06:25:16 pm

Happy new year folks!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 01, 2018, 07:47:17 pm

The Swedish church has changed Jesus from masculine to neutral, in hopes of reaching a larger public. When referring to Jesus in sermons, priests will henceforth use the new (since 2015) Swedish word 'hen'. Since 2015, the Swedish language union decided to make a gesture of goodwill to transexuals and other lgbt. Next to him (han) and her (hon), Swedish now also has it (hen), and now Jesus is an it too.

The bishop of Västerås has written a press statement in which he agrees with the transition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 01, 2018, 08:07:47 pm

Man, who would have thought that evangelical propaganda would end up being taken seriously years later?

For reaching a larger public, though? I don't see how that brings anybody over the line to attending church.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 01, 2018, 11:16:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 01, 2018, 07:47:17 pm

The Swedish church has changed Jesus from masculine to neutral, in hopes of reaching a larger public. When referring to Jesus in sermons, priests will henceforth use the new (since 2015) Swedish word 'hen'. Since 2015, the Swedish language union decided to make a gesture of goodwill to transexuals and other lgbt. Next to him (han) and her (hon), Swedish now also has it (hen), and now Jesus is an it too.

The bishop of Västerås has written a press statement in which he agrees with the transition.

How exactly do you change Jesus from masculine to neutral? Remove the beard? The general representation of Jesus is as pretty close to neutral as it gets without removing the beard.

Unless Nordic churches like muscular Jesus for some reason.

*finishes reading the rest of the post*

Oh, gender-neutral language.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 02, 2018, 02:13:31 am

Swedish church is desperately clamouring from dying off by attempting to appeal to people who don't want to be in the church. Old news is old, Swedish Church keeps bleeding members like a medieval medical institution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on January 02, 2018, 08:57:55 am

Quote from: scriver on January 02, 2018, 02:13:31 am

Swedish church is desperately clamouring from dying off by attempting to appeal to people who don't want to be in the church. Old news is old, Swedish Church keeps bleeding members like a medieval medical institution.

By the way, could somone tell me what denomination the Swedish Church is? Some sort of protestant?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 02, 2018, 09:43:53 am

Protestant and other reformed churches. If I remember correctly two largest churches (institutions not buildings) in Sweden are protestant, one more conservative and one more liberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 02, 2018, 11:17:50 am

I assume this is the liberal one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 02, 2018, 11:18:58 am

The Swedish Church, which is the old state church, is protestant. Other protestant denominations are togetherly referred to as freereligious and not really differentiated between by people not in them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2018, 09:15:28 am

“He sees the queen in reality-TV show terms. That’s the Trump modus operandi," he said. "He will try to Trumpalize the queen and Buckingham Palace.” (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/367794-wolff-hopes-of-post-brexit-trade-deal-at-risk-if-trump-doesnt-get)

rofl

Seems to me that'd make it even less likely that the Queen would accept a visit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lovechild on January 07, 2018, 12:03:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 01, 2018, 07:47:17 pm

The Swedish church has changed Jesus from masculine to neutral, in hopes of reaching a larger public. When referring to Jesus in sermons, priests will henceforth use the new (since 2015) Swedish word 'hen'. Since 2015, the Swedish language union decided to make a gesture of goodwill to transexuals and other lgbt. Next to him (han) and her (hon), Swedish now also has it (hen), and now Jesus is an it too.

The bishop of Västerås has written a press statement in which he agrees with the transition.

Ah the classic "one tiny place in Sweden did this one thing, that means IT'S THE LAW IN ALL OF SWEDEN"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on January 07, 2018, 12:34:33 pm

When they say "Swedish Church" they don't mean one individual church they mean "The Church of Sweden" e.g. a national religious institution, analogous to the "The Church of England" which is the official state religion of England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Sweden

The membership of this "one tiny place in Sweden" is 61% of the national population.

In fact, until 1996 it was required by law that Swedes join this religion at birth. So that means the vast majority of adults in Sweden were legally forced in the past to be members of this specific "church" that made this specific ruling. So your entire rebuttal is in fact, pretty off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2018, 12:45:26 pm

A female pope would be absolutely revolutionary for Catholics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Lovechild on January 07, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

What I'm saying is that the statement "When referring to Jesus in sermons, priests will henceforth use the new (since 2015) Swedish word 'hen'." is false. Jesus was referred to with a gender neutral pronoun in an ad in a local Västerås paper. This caused some controversy. The bishop of Västerås made a statement (https://www.svenskakyrkan.se/vasteras/nyheter/biskop-mikael-mogren-om-den-pagaende-hen-debatten) where he said that Jesus, the human, was male, but shared the life of all humanity, regardless of gender.

A lot of the time when you hear crazy things about Sweden online, it's tiny things blown way out of proportion and mixed with pure fabrication.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 07, 2018, 12:48:22 pm

Quote from: Reelya on January 07, 2018, 12:34:33 pm

When they say "Swedish Church" they don't mean one individual church they mean "The Church of Sweden" e.g. a national religious institution, analogous to the "The Church of England" which is the official state religion of England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Sweden

The membership of this "one tiny place in Sweden" is 61% of the national population. So no, you got that wrong, it is in fact a thing that affects most people in Sweden directly. Saying it doesn't is like saying a female pope would "only affect a few people in Rome".

Well, yes and no. Most Swedes are registered CoS member, but overall church attendance is like, 4-5% so most "members" won't ever hear a sermon preached with the new pronoun.

P.S. It's muy understanding that Swedes were registered a CoS if one parent was a member prior to 1996, not that all Swedes were required to be members. If anything that means it affects even less people, since a lot of those "members" are only marked as such before they were required to be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on January 07, 2018, 12:53:08 pm

Membership was ~87% of the population at the time of the 1995 ruling according to articles.

You could have gotten out of your kids being members, if any only if both parents actively renounce their own membership before the birth of the kids. But of course, that wouldn't have been an easily entered decision, you'd be turning your back on the religious organization / social structure that both sides of your family are all members of, plus it being the official state religion that's taught in schools and pushed by the government. The pressure to just not rock the boat would have been immense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 07, 2018, 01:09:24 pm

Quote from: scriver on January 02, 2018, 02:13:31 am

Swedish church is desperately clamouring from dying off by attempting to appeal to people who don't want to be in the church. Old news is old, Swedish Church keeps bleeding members like a medieval medical institution.

Indeed. I am packing up and leaving, myself. I have had quite enough of their nonsense. More to the point, the church has been run by political interest rather than religious for many years, and this is merely the most glaring effect that has caused. It is not about to change, and thus, I am off. Perhaps, however, forcing out people who does not appreciate one thousand years of continued tradition and heritage being flushed away to make room for the latest ideological fad, is something the current management finds appealing.

All together, I am much rather alone than in bad company.

Quote from: Teneb on January 02, 2018, 08:57:55 am

By the way, could somone tell me what denomination the Swedish Church is? Some sort of protestant?

Evangelical Lutheran, I was told.

Quote from: Sheb on January 07, 2018, 12:48:22 pm

Well, yes and no. Most Swedes are registered CoS member, but overall church attendance is like, 4-5% so most "members" won't ever hear a sermon preached with the new pronoun.

P.S. It's muy understanding that Swedes were registered a CoS if one parent was a member prior to 1996, not that all Swedes were required to be members. If anything that means it affects even less people, since a lot of those "members" are only marked as such before they were required to be.

That is true. Membership was an opt-out affair in the past, since it was the state church. Of course, in the 18th and 19th centuries, not being a part of it was very much illegal. Often, change is for the better, but then it is liable to go much too far, as in this case.

Of course, most people do not attend regular service, or consider themselves Christian or religious, and tend to think of themselves as Atheistic. Then, when something happens, they tend to return to the traditions, and the church becomes an institution of comfort and stability. The Scandinavian is a more spiritual creature than he likes to talk of, when the days are dark and the going is rough.

Quote from: Lovechild on January 07, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

What I'm saying is that the statement "When referring to Jesus in sermons, priests will henceforth use the new (since 2015) Swedish word 'hen'." is false. Jesus was referred to with a gender neutral pronoun in an ad in a local Västerås paper. This caused some controversy. The bishop of Västerås made a statement (https://www.svenskakyrkan.se/vasteras/nyheter/biskop-mikael-mogren-om-den-pagaende-hen-debatten) where he said that Jesus, the human, was male, but shared the life of all humanity, regardless of gender.

A lot of the time when you hear crazy things about Sweden online, it's tiny things blown way out of proportion and mixed with pure fabrication.

Often, yes, and in this case, it is the use of enforced gender-neutral language. That is not entirely true. However, scripture and sermons are being modified to avoid or change terms that is disagreeable through a modern, ideological lense. Such as the term 'Lord', both a male specific term and not as close, lovely special buddy that the current church direction has emphasised in many years.

It is dramaticised, but it is true that old heritage is being changed as part of a strange modernisation effort, mainly run by the political factions in church management.

And while we are here, I would like to thank you. Often, people cannot make it through the head-line. I admire good readership.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 07, 2018, 01:28:23 pm

He, to be fair, from a theological point of view I quite like the idea of referring to Jesus, in his godly capacity as genderless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2018, 01:55:30 pm

Quote from: Sheb on January 07, 2018, 01:28:23 pm

He, to be fair, from a theological point of view I quite like the idea of referring to Jesus, in his godly capacity as genderless.

pleb tier theology

Spoiler: u r lik little babby watch this (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/yvtL3MK.jpg)

j e s u s   i s   m y   f i d g e t   s p i n n e r

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 07, 2018, 05:05:19 pm

In other Swedish news: Social democrats shows their true colours, wants to change the laws regarding collective bargaining to keep dock workers from striking (https://www.svd.se/s-ministern-vill-inskranka-strejkratten-kansligt). Link in Swedish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2018, 05:27:55 pm

Can you offer an archived text? I can't figure out what the website wants from me before it lets me read swedish runes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2018, 05:34:22 pm

It looks to be paywalled anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2018, 06:07:28 pm

Swedish man explodes after picking up a thing on the floor. Turned out to be a grenade (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/explosion-outside-metro-station-stockholm-11811422)

Quote

Sweden has seen a rise in hand grenade attacks or incidents in recent years.
There have been so many incidents that the government is planning an amnesty for grenades and explosives later this year.

Sweden is normal
t. Sven the 5th dimensional parasite of Cthulhu's left testicle

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 07, 2018, 06:08:06 pm

It's not paywalled for me, but here is an article regarding the same thing from another source (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/s-minister-inskrankning-av-strejkratten-behovs-i-sverige-pa-grund-av-hamnkonflikten-i-goteborg).

I actually don't know how to create archived thingies of sites. I was going to just copy the whole thing here, but it looked like it was copying sidebars too and I'm too lazy to remove those.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2018, 06:13:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2018, 06:07:28 pm

Swedish man explodes after picking up a thing on the floor. Turned out to be a grenade (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/explosion-outside-metro-station-stockholm-11811422)

Quote

Sweden has seen a rise in hand grenade attacks or incidents in recent years.
There have been so many incidents that the government is planning an amnesty for grenades and explosives later this year.

Sweden is normal
t. Sven the 5th dimensional parasite of Cthulhu's left testicle

He's actually dead now. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42597802)

Also, that quoted sentence sounds like some kind of mistranslation.

Maybe scriver or one of the Swedish Bay12ers can shed some light on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 07, 2018, 06:23:46 pm

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the "Sweden has seen a rise in hand grenade attacks or incidents in recent years. There have been so many incidents that the government is planning an amnesty for grenades and explosives later this year." from LW's post? I don't see anything wrong with it, though I'm not sure where he got it from.

If it's about the "amnesty" thing, it's a period during which you can turn in illicit goods without risking charge, usually done for guns. But I think it's still called that in English though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 07, 2018, 06:31:27 pm

Pretty sure he's referring to the amnesty part, just sounds strange I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 07, 2018, 08:19:50 pm

*Rides in on a Dala horse*

Hmm. Nothing that I have heard of, specifically. There has, however, been gun amnesties in the past. That is, the public can come by the station and drop of any old gun of questionable legality with no questions asked. I assume it is something similar, in this case. There are quite a few hand grenades and old unregistered dynamite lying about, I imagine. Someone's grandfather might have kept some sticks in the garden shed, or someone brought a few grenades with them after a homeguard exercise or some-such, and this might be an incentive to hoover some of those old things up. Gun amnesties are fairly common, since firearms are rather common throughout the country, both legal and otherwise.

As for grenade attacks on the increase, I fear it is so. The gangster wars have turned quite brutal these last two decades. There always were violent crime, of course. But, in a situation where they would simply corner a rival and beat him, now they shoot at him or chuck grenades after him. Grenades are handy, plentiful and attractive. The poor man killed today were simply at the wrong place, picking up the wrong thing. It seems that the grenade had been discarded at the site, possibly due to its faulty safety mechanism, and then went off as he picked it up.

The only grenade incident where I were present were some eleven years back, when a hand grenade hid under the parked motorcar of a night club watchman chief went off. No injuries, save property damage. That guard was, of course, deep in the criminal circles, and employed by a very dodgy club. It closed a few years after, when another dodgy man were shot and killed on the dance floor.

There is also the incident last year, when a child was killed when gangsters threw a grenade into a flat that belonged to an imprisoned relative of his, sentenced for murdering two men (one bystander, one dodgy character) and wounding several when they stormed a pub with an AKM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 08, 2018, 01:05:02 pm

Lol, making fun of a massacre. Thank you Sinn Fein MP.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 08, 2018, 01:13:27 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 08, 2018, 01:05:02 pm

Lol, making fun of a massacre. Thank you Sinn Fein MP.

Quote

Party colleague Máirtín Ó Muilleoir has also apologised for retweeting the video.

He said he saw the tweet as being "wholly apolitical and retweeted it on that basis".

oi |:< (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42598314)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 08, 2018, 01:22:59 pm

Not sure if you're trying to say his excuse is believable or not.

For me it's laughably transparent.

Also, O'Neill on th TV - "to the Kingsmills victims' families I apologise, as representative of Sinn Fein in the North"

Nice wee barb in your direct address to people who are suffering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 08, 2018, 01:32:57 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 08, 2018, 01:22:59 pm

Not sure if you're trying to say his excuse is believable or not.

For me it's laughably transparent.

Also, O'Neill on th TV - "to the Kingsmills victims' families I apologise, as representative of Sinn Fein in the North"

Nice wee barb in your direct address to people who are suffering.

Uh, I don't get the bard? Is it the use of North?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 08, 2018, 01:37:20 pm

Yep. As I'm sure you can imagine, it's a very politically charged way of referring to Northern Ireland.

Though I'm also sure many would laugh up their sleeves given the similarity to the country's official name, it's still bad terminology when speaking to Protestants, and an addendum unneeded in her sentence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 08, 2018, 01:44:27 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 08, 2018, 01:22:59 pm

Not sure if you're trying to say his excuse is believable or not.

I'm saying his friend's excuse that it's apolitical is nonsense

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 08, 2018, 01:49:06 pm

The use of Sinn Fein may also be percieved as a barb (though he IS a Sinn Fein MP) since Sinn Fein is/was the political arm of the now disbanded IRA.

Just another politician doing something dumb and insensitive really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 09, 2018, 03:35:11 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 08, 2018, 01:49:06 pm

The use of Sinn Fein may also be percieved as a barb (though he IS a Sinn Fein MP) since Sinn Fein is/was the political arm of the now disbanded IRA.

Just another politician doing something dumb and insensitive really.

That's dumb, he's saying he's apologizing as a member of Sinn Fein because it was a massacre made by the IRA. That's the point of him apologizing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 09, 2018, 04:48:43 am

Her. Michelle O'Neill took over IRA-leader McGuinness' place. Her father and two cousins were in the IRA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 13, 2018, 10:13:49 pm

Crossposting from Ameripol since this is British people doing it, but were in the name of Trump.

Quote from: Dunamisdeos on January 13, 2018, 05:30:33 pm

This is the best headline of 2018 - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-supporters-attempt-to-arrest-london-mayor/ar-AAuDxQJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-supporters-attempt-to-arrest-london-mayor/ar-AAuDxQJ)

That thing went from plain silly to outright disturbing, they had brought a gallows to the area where Sadiq Khan was speaking (http://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/368934-far-right-group-built-gallows-tried-to-arrest-london-mayor-over). Not sure if it was the same group or a different one, but you really can't speculate very far what they might have intended to do with the mayor of London.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2018, 07:52:24 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 13, 2018, 10:13:49 pm

That thing went from plain silly to outright disturbing, they had brought a gallows to the area where Sadiq Khan was speaking (http://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/368934-far-right-group-built-gallows-tried-to-arrest-london-mayor-over). Not sure if it was the same group or a different one, but you really can't speculate very far what they might have intended to do with the mayor of London.

BBC news with the edited direct source because the hill is beyond dog shite (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-42676628/sadiq-khan-speech-interrupted-by-protesters). Purpose seems clear: Disrupt his speech, there were 3-4 of them and they got salto that they were kicked out 15 minutes in lol. Don't know where the gallows thing comes from, it's something I've only found appear in the Hill and Washington Post, now why these Washington based news agencies have information that no one in Britain has, is probably just a lil bit of embellishment: They want to sell clicks, they want to make it seem like our Mayor was gonna be assassinated. These chuckle fucks were disrespectful and couldn't get the US flag the right way around for their own protest, but the UK has not descended into lawlessness, least not of all in London

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 14, 2018, 08:48:27 am

Quote

Mr McElduff has apologised and said he did not realise there could be a possible link between the bread brand and the anniversary.

what a fucking liar. No its just a wacky coincidence you posted a video of you wearing kingsmill bread with the branding clearly visible on the anniversary of the kingsmill massacre

If you're going to mock one of the largest mass shootings in the Troubles at least have the fucking spine to not immediately say "uh um no I wasnt honest mistake guv Q_Q"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 14, 2018, 11:07:11 am

To further salt the wound, Sinn Fein is "punishing" him by giving him a few months suspended on full pay. Despite him not having any governmental obligations anyway.

The Republican party has a good propaganda machine, and are very fond of using the mantra of equality and respect. When it suits them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 14, 2018, 11:26:39 am

They are politicians. They have a base they don’t want to alienate, and the troubles are still within living memory for a lot of people on both sides. They need to be seen to do something to appease outsiders without actually really doing anything to appease their base.

Political leadership 101.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 14, 2018, 11:54:19 am

Yes, their base probably doesn't mind that he mocked a massacre. Nor do the politicians who they are represented by. That is the problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2018, 12:08:07 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 14, 2018, 11:26:39 am

They are politicians. They have a base they don’t want to alienate, and the troubles are still within living memory for a lot of people on both sides. They need to be seen to do something to appease outsiders without actually really doing anything to appease their base.

Political leadership 101.

They would do well to not forget the 'leadership' in 'political leadership.' Being an ineffectual leader is a common political mistake, its commonness amongst politicians is no path to desire. It tests the patience of your political base, which we saw in the UK from 2015-to now; assuming people are going to support you and all your uselessness because you studied politics in Oxbridge is a surefire way to accelerate your decline, a political base becomes discontent. In this case? If your cause is a United Ireland, one of the principle obstacles is the disunity of Ireland sown in the blood of the past. If you can't even accept whether the IRA did the massacre you will never achieve this goal. It's salt in the wound, no one in Sinn Fein refusing to take responsibility for the actions of their party MP.

And then you get to the politics. Accepting that their MP was wrong for mocking the survivors of a massacre is one thing, but giving them paid leave instead of any disciplinary action? It's politics 101, it's a compromise in a situation which should not beget compromise, because this will not please anyone. Does it please the victims, or does it please their base? No it pleases no one. It is the Logan Paul of apologies.

Quote

Have deleted video post. Had not realised or imagined for a second any possible link between product brand name and Kingsmill Anniversary.
Further, I apologise for any hurt or offence caused. Never my intention to offend anyone who has suffered grievously.

Quote

I made a severe and continuous lapse in my judgement, and I don’t expect to be forgiven. I’m simply here to apologise.
What we came across in the woods that day was obviously unplanned. The reactions you saw on tape were raw; they were unfiltered. None of us knew how to react or how to feel. I should have never posted the video. I should have put the cameras down and stopped recording what we were going through.
There's a lot of things I should have done differently but I didn't. And for that, from the bottom of my heart, I am sorry.

Oh wait lmao, his apology was less sincere than Logan Paul

politics 101, less than Logan kills the nation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on January 14, 2018, 12:34:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2018, 07:52:24 am

Don't know where the gallows thing comes from, it's something I've only found appear in the Hill and Washington Post, now why these Washington based news agencies have information that no one in Britain has, is probably just a lil bit of embellishment: They want to sell clicks, they want to make it seem like our Mayor was gonna be assassinated.

The gallows is from the groups own facebook video (https://www.facebook.com/djdavey.jay/videos/1841793662498203/?hc_location=ufi) of the event. It's clearly not... Like, an actual working gallows that you could actually hang someone from. But they do bring a gallows and they do say that it "awaits anyone who breaks their oath of office"

I guess this is where I question the BBCs motive for not mentioning the gallows then? Probably because they want less clicks, to spread the clicks to the poor click impoverished news stations of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on January 14, 2018, 12:38:29 pm

Wow... I thought it was just America, but England seems to be jumping off the cliff too... Well, there is a special relationship after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 14, 2018, 01:03:17 pm

Quote from: Criptfeind on January 14, 2018, 12:34:25 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2018, 07:52:24 am

Don't know where the gallows thing comes from, it's something I've only found appear in the Hill and Washington Post, now why these Washington based news agencies have information that no one in Britain has, is probably just a lil bit of embellishment: They want to sell clicks, they want to make it seem like our Mayor was gonna be assassinated.

The gallows is from the groups own facebook video (https://www.facebook.com/djdavey.jay/videos/1841793662498203/?hc_location=ufi) of the event. It's clearly not... Like, an actual working gallows that you could actually hang someone from. But they do bring a gallows and they do say that it "awaits anyone who breaks their oath of office"

I guess this is where I question the BBCs motive for not mentioning the gallows then? Probably because they want less clicks, to spread the clicks to the poor click impoverished news stations of the world.

It certainly looks like it could be made functional, but what do I know. Still found it disturbing though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on January 14, 2018, 01:08:09 pm

Well, I mean, I don't know anything about gallows either. Maybe my perspective is off, it looks to me like even if I got my head though the hole my feet would be able to touch the ground. But idk, it's hard to judge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 14, 2018, 03:33:33 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on January 14, 2018, 12:38:29 pm

Wow... I thought it was just America, but England seems to be jumping off the cliff too... Well, there is a special relationship after all.

4 dudes =/= You guys electring Trump

Quote from: Criptfeind on January 14, 2018, 12:34:25 pm

The gallows is from the groups own facebook video (https://www.facebook.com/djdavey.jay/videos/1841793662498203/?hc_location=ufi) of the event. It's clearly not... Like, an actual working gallows that you could actually hang someone from. But they do bring a gallows and they do say that it "awaits anyone who breaks their oath of office"
I guess this is where I question the BBCs motive for not mentioning the gallows then? Probably because they want less clicks, to spread the clicks to the poor click impoverished news stations of the world.

That actually is pretty suspish as to why the BBC would redact that info. Could be that the BBC is on orders to minimize the amount of attention this group gets, so as to reduce the effectiveness of their publicity stunt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 14, 2018, 10:09:20 pm

Venezuela has been blockading trade with the Dutch islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao for about two weeks now, claiming drug trade is hurting Venezuelan economy. Analist suspect Chinese oil interests are behind it. Fruit and vegetables becoming scarce on the islands. Diplomacy has been unsuccesful so far. We might need to send our navy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 14, 2018, 10:24:07 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 14, 2018, 10:09:20 pm

Venezuela has been blockading trade with the Dutch islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao for about two weeks now, claiming drug trade is hurting Venezuelan economy. Analist suspect Chinese oil interests are behind it. Fruit and vegetables becoming scarce on the islands. Diplomacy has been unsuccesful so far. We might need to send our navy.

Is it a complete naval blockade or something? Not as if Venezuela is the only source of fruit and vegetables? I'm a bit confused as to the situation as it sounds like a military blockade but I don't think Venezuelas navy is that big.

You could always ask the US to show some muscle if neccesary, or something.

Also, I hadn't seen anything about Venezuela blockading trade on those islands on the BBC...

edit: Google news'd it and I see. Does Venezuela's maritine border completely envelop those three islands because I thought those islands would have their own maritine border which wouldn't stop aircraft and ships from coming through.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 15, 2018, 04:45:28 am

It does (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Caribbean_maritime_boundaries_map.svg), or at least, it should; I doubt the Dominican Republic has joined in on this blockade.  Do you have any reference?  All I found is indications that Venezuela severed their own trade relations with the ABC islands, but if that were all, then their maritime border shouldn't matter at all.  Is the blockade being conducted in general and in violation of Dutch national waters? 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2018, 05:27:16 am

Nah, but if it continues, there will be severe food shortages on the islands. About 95% of it's cereals, fruit and vegetables are imported from Venezuela.

EDIT: ohwait, they are indeed actually blockading the airspace and naval terrirtorial waters of the islands.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/nog-geen-akkoord-na-overleg-venezuela-houdt-vast-aan-zee-en-luchtblokkade-abc-eilanden~a4556828/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2018, 09:30:43 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42688698

Barry McElduff has resigned. Wonder if it's got anything to do with the petition, which is thirty eight and a half thousand strong, demanding he step down. Hope so; would hate to think my vote was for naught.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2018, 04:45:46 am

As an extreme measure, the Netherlands has declared the most senior ranking Eritrean diplomat as persona non grata, and kicked him out of the country.
With this the Netherlands hopes to send a clear message that we will not accept the Eritrean ways of threatening and intimidating Eritreans living in the Netherlands into paying tax to Eritrea over their Dutch income.
Diplomats have already tried for months to try and convince Eritrea to stop doing that, but they have not complied, or even showed any understanding that we do not accept such behaviour.
The next step would be closing down the embassy altogether, but for now the government thinks that will be counterproductive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 18, 2018, 05:59:15 am

Does Eritrea double tax their citizen's income like the US or is it a different issue, them saying that their citizens shouldn't pay the Netherlands tax?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2018, 06:06:46 am

Double tax.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 18, 2018, 08:08:53 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2018, 04:45:46 am

As an extreme measure, the Netherlands has declared the most senior ranking Eritrean diplomat as persona non grata, and kicked him out of the country.
With this the Netherlands hopes to send a clear message that we will not accept the Eritrean ways of threatening and intimidating Eritreans living in the Netherlands into paying tax to Eritrea over their Dutch income.
Diplomats have already tried for months to try and convince Eritrea to stop doing that, but they have not complied, or even showed any understanding that we do not accept such behaviour.
The next step would be closing down the embassy altogether, but for now the government thinks that will be counterproductive.

How is it different from what the US do?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2018, 09:16:35 am

Because Eritrea doesn't have a tax agreement with the Netherlands that allows for reimbursement of double tax, I suppose. Or possibly avoid double taxation alltogether, not familiar with the specifics on the Dutch-US tax agreement, just know that our country's base policy is to negotiate treaties with no double taxation.
And because the US doesn't send shady men to intimidate and threaten Dutch citizens into paying, nor does it make them sign papers in which they promise to pay for their unspecified crimes.

From the official website of our tax office:

Quote

If you have income from different countries, tax is levied on that income by multiple countries. If you have capital in another country than that in which you reside, you will also be confronted with this issue. If tax is levied on the same income or capital by more than 1 country, this is called double taxation.
To avoid that you pay tax on your income or your capital more than once, the Netherlands has concluded tax treaties with a considerable number of countries. A tax treaty is an agreement between 2 countries about which of them has the right to levy tax on certain income. The contents of the treaties are not the same for every country. To know what the exact consequences are for your tax levy in the Netherlands, you must read that treaty (https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/individuals/tax_arrangements/tax_treaties/overview_of_treaty_countries/overview_of_treaty_countries).
If the Netherlands has not concluded a tax treaty with the country concerned, the 'Double Taxation (Avoidance) Decree (2001)' applies. Application of this Decree will also result in the avoidance of double taxation. For more information about the avoidance of double tax, please see the double tax relief (https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/individuals/tax_arrangements/income_from_abroad/double_tax_relief/double_tax_relief).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 18, 2018, 01:01:03 pm

The USA also doesn't try to levy taxes on income for people in situations like that unless they're making more than $90,000/yr too, and I'm guessing the Eritrean government doesn't have a similar policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 18, 2018, 10:04:20 pm

Also, Eritrea is significantly weaker on the world stage than the USA, so the Netherlands can get away with laying down the law somewhat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2018, 08:22:54 pm

Macron says France would probably vote to leave EU if allowed to vote. (https://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-french-would-probably-vote-to-leave-eu-11216872)

FFS THE FRENCH WILL LEAVE THE EU BEFORE US. UK 2 slow, gotta go fast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on January 22, 2018, 09:04:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2018, 08:22:54 pm

Macron says France would probably vote to leave EU if allowed to vote. (https://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-french-would-probably-vote-to-leave-eu-11216872)

FFS THE FRENCH WILL LEAVE THE EU BEFORE US. UK 2 slow, gotta go fast

inb4 100 Years War Part 2

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 22, 2018, 09:08:23 pm

As we come up to New Years 2019, Angela Merkel has finalized the historic agreement removing Germany from the European Union in all capacity. Observers are now speculating as to the role UK Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn will take, as he is already informally viewed as the leader of European politics in our time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 23, 2018, 02:08:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2018, 08:22:54 pm

Macron says France would probably vote to leave EU if allowed to vote. (https://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-french-would-probably-vote-to-leave-eu-11216872)

FFS THE FRENCH WILL LEAVE THE EU BEFORE US. UK 2 slow, gotta go fast

They haven't even done Article 50 yet....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on January 23, 2018, 04:42:19 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 23, 2018, 02:08:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2018, 08:22:54 pm

Macron says France would probably vote to leave EU if allowed to vote. (https://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-french-would-probably-vote-to-leave-eu-11216872)

FFS THE FRENCH WILL LEAVE THE EU BEFORE US. UK 2 slow, gotta go fast

They haven't even done Article 50 yet....

Oh, but they're the French. They'll just put up some barricades, wave a flag, fart in Brussels's general direction, crown Macron as Emperor Napoleon V, and call it a revolution. Napoleon V then slips on wet floor in a public toilet in Belgium and dies. This incident will become commonly known as the Watery Loo Accident. The French Sixth Republic is then declared, and it promptly surrenders to Luxemburg in order to rejoin the EU...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on January 23, 2018, 05:42:15 am

Ireland is best euroland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 23, 2018, 10:08:04 am

Northern Ireland is best britishland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 23, 2018, 10:29:24 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 23, 2018, 10:08:04 am

Northern Ireland is best britishland.

You mean North Ireland?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 23, 2018, 11:16:18 am

What's Donegal got to do with this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 23, 2018, 01:35:30 pm

I found out only recently that there are bits of Ireland northerner than Northern Ireland.


Incidentally I´m going to spend a few months in Sligo... which is NOT quite that far up but... still pretty far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on January 23, 2018, 01:37:06 pm

Northerner Ireland?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 23, 2018, 01:40:22 pm

Quote from: Jopax on January 23, 2018, 01:37:06 pm

Northerner Ireland?

Donegal is pretty much Northernest Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 23, 2018, 01:42:18 pm

I believe it's just called the Republic. Or, the longer winded form - the Republic of Ireland. :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or North Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 23, 2018, 11:35:06 pm

The Dutch Financial Market Authority (AFM) presented it's 2018 report today. In it, it advises the government to forbid risky foreign investment products, like cryptovaluta.
They further compare bitcoins and other modern means of investment to gambling and gaming, and say this is an unwanted development.

I guess bitcoins will be banned soon here. Or at least, fall under gambling laws, meaning you'll have to pay 50% tax over transactions where you turn bitcoins into real valuta.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 03:06:57 am

Will that applies to the tokens issued in ICOs?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2018, 04:31:46 am

Probably, yes, since ICOs use cryptocurrencies as well.

What's interesting is that they would like a ban on binary options as well, because they resemble gambling too much, and a ban on mobile phone investment apps, because they make investing look like a game, while it should be serious business.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 05:42:37 am

I can see the rationale behind banning binary options or treating them as gambling, in the sense that they're not really investments at all. It's a shame for ICOs though, they seems like a financial innovation that could play a real role, even if the entire ICO market is kinda bubbly right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on January 24, 2018, 06:59:40 am

I'm in Munster.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2018, 07:57:26 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 05:42:37 am

I can see the rationale behind banning binary options or treating them as gambling, in the sense that they're not really investments at all.

Because binary trading is in fact gambling. Unless inside inormation is used, in which case it is a crime to begin with.
It's widely compared to the roulette of the investment world, even before the AFM report, because of it's all or nothing character.
You basically gamble on a stock rising or falling. If you guessed right, you win say, +80% of you investment, if you guessed wrong, you lose 100%.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 24, 2018, 09:45:25 am

Meanwhile, in Denmark, the trial of Peter Madsen is about to begin, on the 8th of March. The charges have been announced, as pre-mediated and prepared murder, improper handling of a corpse and sexual assault. The case has become a quite horrifying affair.

Sit-Rep:
Peter Madsen is (well, was) an engineer-entrepeneur. One of his creations is the private submarine UC3 Nautilus. Last summer, on the 10th of August, journalist Kim Wall boarded this submarine on an intended interview of Madsen, and a tour of the Öresund. They embarked 19:00 in the evening, and would disembark at Bornholm island, at about 14:00 the following day. That was the last time she was seen alive.
The vessel later sunk of the Danish coast, at eleven in the following morning. Madsen was rescued by a nearby vessel, but Ms. Wall was nowhere to be seen. He claimed that she had disembarked in Copenhagen at 22:30 the night before. The Danish police, however, thought that something was decidedly off, and detained him. Ms. Wall could not be found.
Then, on August the 23rd, a torso washed ashore. It was identified as belonging to Ms. Wall. It had been weighted down, and punctured. Madsen is thus held on suspicion of improper treatment of human remains, and suspicion of murder. Navy divers searches the area and recovers further body-parts, Ms. Wall's clothes and a knife and a saw.

What he has claimed:
After the assertion that she disembarked in Copenhagen proved false, he later claimed that an accident had occured while at sea; at one point, a heavy hatch had fallen down on her head while she was ascending a ladder. It does not hold when examined against the evidence. He claims to have, once he discovered that she had been killed, 'buried her at sea' (as he put it), and later, the vessel sank due to a technical malfunction.
There was also, briefly, a report out that Madsen had claimed that Ms. Wall had died due to suffocation when carbon monoxied gas exhaust entered the vessel while he was on deck. However, his legal defence denies this, and maintains now that he does not know how she died.

The physical evidence:
The sunken submarine was later discovered, salvaged and analysed. Foremost, it disproves that it sunk by technical fault, but was scuttled intentionally. Further, it contained blood and hair samples, and a pair of women's underwear. The bodyparts has further disproved Madsen's claims. Ms. Wall's remains shows no injuries that would correspond with deadly head trauma, which makes the hatch cover fairy-tale impossible. There are stab wounds, either connected to her death or (if regarded generously towards Madsen) inflicted shorty afterwards.
There are also details of evidence that has currently not been released for public knowledge, but one can infer that they strengthen the prosecution greatly. Some, I imagine, are simply too frightening to release lightly. There is, of course, another over-arching inference one can make, and that is simply that dismembering and dumping the body at sea is a very peculiar way to react to the accidental death of a passenger.

However, on further investigation, the case turns horrifying.
An earlier line of inquiry, once his claims of accidental death had proven shaky, was that he may had lost his temper and gone violent after an inopportune question during the interview. However, while it is quite possible to murder someone in an act of fury, it is very unusual to then be able to dismember the corpse. In most cases, dismemberment and dumping of bodies suggest pre-planning, and a certain state of mind. It is not the common reaction of someone distraught at an accidental death.
Further, some of the stab wounds from the recovered body are of a violent, sexual nature, and that is further re-inforced when compared to some of the material seized from Madsen's computer, which concerns violent pornography, beheadings, and other depictions of brutality for enjoyment. He has further been witnessed consuming such things before. It paints a dark picture of his personality.
In brief, the prosecution claims that Madsen spirited Ms. Wall away, with the intention of torturing, killing and dumping her at sea, and that he did so, somewhere between 19:00 on the 10th of August, and 10:30 the following day.
The main question for the court, at present, is effectively if Madsen had invited Ms. Wall with the intention to play at Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea meets Girl With the Dragon Tattoo from the beginning, or if that idea developed during the trip. The prosecution is leaning towards the former, and appears to believe itself sufficiently equipped to prove it. From it, one can infer that they have likely secured equipment Madsen brought to that end.

Good Lord... This is a time when one sets aside the findings, and must take a deep breath. I cannot even begin to imagine how it must have been for the investigators, disentangling this horrid event, and trying to build a picture of this terrifying man. The perspectives that unfold when one imagines the case are beyond all nightmares in the world. Indeed, I can understand why specific details are withheld from the public, for merely cataloguing this summary has been a frightful business.
Luckily for justice, Madsen's schemes to escape has been frustrated at every turn. The body and the submarine have been recovered, and can be analysed to disprove his claims, and taken with the circumstantial evidence, helps build a very strong case against him. Indeed, it is quite difficult to believe how he could possibly have invisioned himself getting away with it.

At present, it seems that life imprisonment is the only possible outcome of the case for Madsen. Since the gallows are out of the question, that is the best possible conclusion one could hope for. That man appears to be a very nasty piece of work, indeed, and one can only hope that he will be in safe containment, far away from the public, for the rest of his life.
Naturally, since the trial is yet to begin, and Madsen is yet to be proven guilty in court, he must be afforded a chance of innocence. But I must say that if, by some extra-ordinary co-incidence, he is indeed innocent, then I shall eat my keyboard.

(Why the EU thread? Well, it has developed into a general Western Europe news area, and this particular case has had some international interest before.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2018, 10:29:01 am

Better start looking to see if anyone else has gone missing in the vicinity of the Submariner Murderer

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 10:34:47 am

Hey, Danemark is still in the EU, no matter how hard they try to impose blockades on the hordes of german motorists. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 24, 2018, 10:50:03 am

So, the idea is that he raped her (I'm guessing it was more than a hand on the knee, such as some celebrities have been villified for) in a sexual fantasy situation, then tore her body apart and dumped it in the sea? And it was probably premeditated?

Did he just assume money and renown would just make it all go away? Wth.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 11:01:29 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 24, 2018, 10:50:03 am

So, the idea is that he raped her (I'm guessing it was more than a hand on the knee, such as some celebrities have been villified for) in a sexual fantasy situation, then tore her body apart and dumped it in the sea? And it was probably premeditated?

Did he just assume money and renown would just make it all go away? Wth.

Or that the body parts wouldn't be found...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 24, 2018, 11:08:03 am

Quote from: Sheb on January 24, 2018, 11:01:29 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 24, 2018, 10:50:03 am

So, the idea is that he raped her (I'm guessing it was more than a hand on the knee, such as some celebrities have been villified for) in a sexual fantasy situation, then tore her body apart and dumped it in the sea? And it was probably premeditated?

Did he just assume money and renown would just make it all go away? Wth.

Or that the body parts wouldn't be found...

Maybe he thought they'd be eaten by sealife before they got found.

Anyways, a bit of interesting German politics news from another forum that I thought interesting to share:
"In other news Arthur Wagner one of the leaders of the AfD ( Alternative for Germany) party has made news by converting to Islam. AfD is the group that said "Islam doesn’t belong in Germany. We see the ideology of multiculturalism as a serious threat to societal peace and cultural unity.” and Wagner himself accused Merkel of "mutating" the country by allowing in Muslim refugees. https://www.thelocal.de/20180124/leading-member-of-far-right-afd-in-brandenburg-converts-to-islam


I guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. [:lol:] "

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 24, 2018, 11:36:55 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 24, 2018, 10:50:03 am

So, the idea is that he raped her (I'm guessing it was more than a hand on the knee, such as some celebrities have been villified for) in a sexual fantasy situation, then tore her body apart and dumped it in the sea? And it was probably premeditated?

Did he just assume money and renown would just make it all go away? Wth.

Yes, that is the prosecution's line of inquiry, and they appear well equipped to prove it to the court. But indeed, one wonders how he had thought he would escape.

It could be that his opinion of the victim and of the police were simply that low that he could not envisage an investigation of this depth leveled against him. That they would accept his account and not investigate the case any futher. Perhaps there were a more elaborate plan in the works that failed to fire properly, and he had to lie together a plan B. As noted, he have most likely counted on the remains not being recovered, nor that they would bother to salvage the submarine.
That is odd, however, since the applicable area of the Öresund is not a difficult place to search. It is a large area, but it is mostly shallow and fairly calm during the summer. It is not very difficult, not with the very capable frogman corps of the Royal Danish Navy involved. Of course, the case was very much helped by the fact that the police smelled the proverbial rat at once, and detained him and began with a commendable piece of policework from the very start of the investigation.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2018, 10:29:01 am

Better start looking to see if anyone else has gone missing in the vicinity of the Submariner Murderer

I believe that they have done so. Nothing conclusive as of yet, and one hopes that he has not killed any more. Of course, the trial continues.

As for the... Frankly, quite baffling news from Germany and Mr. Wagner, well, one wonders. Very peculiar...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 24, 2018, 12:17:38 pm

Quote from: Silverthrone on January 24, 2018, 11:36:55 am

Öresund

Fun fact: Öresund means Earsound

And yes the whole crime is a very horrible, weird and interesting history. i have absolutely no idea how he though any of this or his ridiculous excuses would work. There was literally a period of time when he had admitted that she had died aboard and that he had sunk her into the sea, but not that she had been dismembered by him, as if she somehow could've spontaneously de-limbed at some point in the water.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 24, 2018, 12:18:59 pm

So do they think he sunk the submarine intentionally?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 24, 2018, 12:24:16 pm

Yes, I believe they found technical evidence or data pointing to that after they salvaged the boat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 24, 2018, 04:28:22 pm

The Madsen case has been interesting to follow in all its bizarre gruesomeness. At one point he seemed to change his story every week, which really tells us that he’s not a terribly smart man. I doubt the crime was premeditated - surely he’d have at least planned an explanation in advance if that was the case?

I’ll be very surprised if he’s not convicted. Bizarre case. Could be out of a Nordic Noir or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Helgoland on January 24, 2018, 05:55:26 pm

Should be called a Scandinavian Blanche, what with how much snowy landscape they're showing and all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 24, 2018, 05:57:35 pm

He's also already been found not legally insane prior to (or as part of?) the case reaching the court, so that's already been cleared.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 24, 2018, 06:11:01 pm

The only risk now is that he buys every prison he is sent to and has all staff fired

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 24, 2018, 07:02:46 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 24, 2018, 06:11:01 pm

The only risk now is that he buys every prison he is sent to and has all staff fired

He is, luckily, not that wealthy. If he is convicted, he will have other concerns, mind. I do not know the Danish prison system in detail, but I do know that criminals of his type are never popular. He will likely be sent to a special facility, or put on isolation. If he is imprisoned amongst the general population, or even in a high security prison, it would not take long until someone stoved his head in with a sock-full of soap bars.

Quote from: Helgoland on January 24, 2018, 05:55:26 pm

Should be called a Scandinavian Blanche, what with how much snowy landscape they're showing and all.

It depends on where they are shot and set, these dramas. Along the coasts and in the south, there is no guarantee for any lasting snowfall. But then again, it looks rather good on television; I imagine they do a lot of bulk filming for the few days of winter when there are snow available. Further inland and north, though, they can usually snow it up to their heart's content.

On the matter of nordic noir, the comparison drawn earlier, that of 20.000 Leagues Under the Sea meets The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, was not drawn loosely. That story describes people like him, creatures with his behaviour. That is what creeps under one's skin about this particular case. My word. Simply monstrous. One should not encourage, nor even appear to endorse, such behaviour in prison, I know, I know, but it would itch in me to order a fruit-basket afterwards for any possible Sir Soap-Sock out there.

Quote from: scriver on January 24, 2018, 05:57:35 pm

He's also already been found not legally insane prior to (or as part of?) the case reaching the court, so that's already been cleared.

I find that fact particularly terrifying. Of course, as has been established, he is mentally sound but, thankfully, incredibly stupid. Still, the things we can do, and still be effectively mentally sound... Good Lord.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2018, 08:20:47 pm

I don´t think he was stupid (he did build a functional submarine, after all). Maybe a good chunk of the stupid is attributable to it being a spur of the moment series of actions.. Consider this scenario. he thought he would charm the pants off the dead journalist, she rebuffed him, he went ballistic, killed her. Then he panicks, and goes through with the first, dumbest, plan he can think about.

There was a similar case in Spain some ten years ago. A resident physician (of psychiatry, of all things) killed a nurse, then latter tried to cover the crime up in a ludicrous fashion. He actually tried to constript someone else into helping him hide the body (or else "he would kill himself"). His friend persuaded him to confess the crime instead.

Anyhow, I think that there are more borderline psychos than one would think even among otherwise functional to that point people. And that human beings as a whole are far closer to violence than we assume. Add those two variables up and you get bizarre crimes like this one.

Quote from: greatorder on January 24, 2018, 08:19:24 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 24, 2018, 10:50:03 am

So, the idea is that he raped her (I'm guessing it was more than a hand on the knee, such as some celebrities have been villified for) in a sexual fantasy situation, then tore her body apart and dumped it in the sea? And it was probably premeditated?

Did he just assume money and renown would just make it all go away? Wth.

One of the defining traits of sociopathy (Though medically not a thing any more, it's good enough for casual conversation) is poor impulse control. Fun fact: Businessmen are, on average, further along the scale of sociopathy than the average bloke. Given they also performed a murder, I'd be unsurprised if it turned out they're further along than even the average businessman.

Kind of ninjaed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 24, 2018, 09:00:05 pm

I disagree. That it occured as a horrid spur of the moment is, indeed, the most logical chain of events. That is what one would assume, and no doubt the line on which inquiries were first based. However, the reason I am unsure that it was an escalating chain of events or a sudden impulse on Madsen's part is the fact that the prosecution intends to charge him on premeditated murder. That is, of course, quite a far-reaching charge, and they would likely not do so if they were not confident that they were equipped with the evidence to prove it.

The man is indeed a clever engineer, but intelligence is not always universal in an individual. It is very possible to do something incredibly stupid although one is very gifted, or to fail to see great flaws in a plan. It is all very strange, and if I were not quite convinced of the capabilities of the investigators, and the weight of the evidence secured (and, more to the point, the potential weight of the evidence as of yet unreleased to public scrutiny), then I would be rather baffled by the charges pressed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on January 24, 2018, 09:20:58 pm

Also, to be honest, genius and madness have been linked in the past. You would need to be a little off kilter to make your own submarine in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on January 24, 2018, 10:18:12 pm

I figure if you're smart enough to make a submarine, you might also be egotistical enough to figure that you're smart enough to get away with murder without a plan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 26, 2018, 03:08:39 am

The main jewish organistation in Austria is boycotting the yearly Holocaust memorial service.
The memorial is traditionally visited by the ministers of state.

Austria now has an extreme-right government.

The Jewsish organistation states that they do not wish to memorize the Shoah with 'this kind of people'.
Direct reason for this was finding out that one of the lead candidates for the extreme right party FPÖ, Udo Landbauer, is the vice-chairman of student association Germania, and extreme right student movement.

One of their songs goes like this: "There walked in their middle, the Jew Ben Gurion. Give gas, dear Germanic people, and we'll make it to seven million"

Give gas is hard to translate. In German (and Dutch) it means 'put the pedal to the metal when referring to driving cars, and it means 'give gas' when referring to gas.

The Green president of Austria said he was shocked when learning about the song book used by Germania. He rebuked the denial by Lanbauer, who claimed he had no knowledge of that song, by stating that every single member of Germania knows that song.

The FPÖ, founded in 1955 by two Waffen SS veterans, has always had extreme right, and antisemitic members.
Antisemitic violence has been on the rise in Austria for the past few years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 26, 2018, 03:27:25 am

You know, with the Golden Dawn I can see they came from an extreme xenophobic reaction and callback to the Megali Idea, with Alternative for Germany I can see they came from Euroskeptics getting entry-ed to death by neo-nazis, with Jobbik I can see they came from antisemetic conspiracy theorists, and with the Swedish Democrats I can see they came from people who read too many Sweden YES memes.

But the Freedom Party? Who have arguably been more successful than all of the above? I got fucking nothing. Is it just the SS officers? Is that it? Is it just Literally Hitler, hiding in Austria for decades while everyone else focuses on watching Germany, waiting for the chance to rebrand?

I should have known something was up with Austria after all the kids locked in basements.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 26, 2018, 03:48:37 am

Quote

The FPÖ, founded in 1955 by two Waffen SS veterans

Well, you'd be hard pressed to go more "literal nazi" than that.
The real question is how literal nazis managedmto get so much support.  :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 26, 2018, 10:14:38 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 26, 2018, 03:48:37 am

Quote

The FPÖ, founded in 1955 by two Waffen SS veterans

Well, you'd be hard pressed to go more "literal nazi" than that.
The real question is how literal nazis managedmto get so much support.  :o

Because Austria never had the self reckoning (and at times, self flagellation) Germany had after WWII?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 06:31:26 am

Dutch largest banks ING, RABO and ABN AMRO have been DDos'd hard the past couple of days, much to the detriment of shop owners that had to send their customers away because they couldn't use their bank cards to pay.

Not the first time this happens, but one of the more severe attacks.
Probably Russian vengeance for the Cozy Bear hacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 09:01:15 am

Those pesky Germans have been up to gassing people again.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/gezonde-proefpersonen-urenlang-blootgesteld-aan-uitlaatgassen-in-opdracht-van-duitse-autofabrikanten~a4563268/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/gezonde-proefpersonen-urenlang-blootgesteld-aan-uitlaatgassen-in-opdracht-van-duitse-autofabrikanten~a4563268/)
BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen have paid researchers to expose a group of 25 young, healthy test subjects to various concentrations of various nitrous oxides (NOx) for many hours, to investigate the health effects of those. Joseph Mengele would have been proud.

NOx's are mainly produced by diesel engines. According to the Stuttgarter Zeitung, there were no measurable health effects in the test subjects.
https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html (https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html)

This is the next PR disaster fo the German automotive industry, which already suffered a lot after their tampering with their cars' software to make them look cleaner in lab tests.
The uncovering of the human testing follows a press realease by the NYT, which exposed Volkswagen to have been testing exhaust fumes on primates in the US.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/world/europe/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-monkeys.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/world/europe/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-monkeys.html)

I guess we'll have to firebomb Dresden again to teach them not to gas people /sarcasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2018, 10:26:52 am

Did somebody call for freedom bombs?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 29, 2018, 01:47:09 pm

Quote

The uncovering of the human testing follows a press realease by the NYT, which exposed Volkswagen to have been testing exhaust fumes on primates in the US.

Well, technically they tested them on primates in Germany as well....

Quote

BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen have paid researchers to expose a group of 25 young, healthy test subjects to various concentrations of various nitrous oxides (NOx) for many hours, to investigate the health effects of those. Joseph Mengele would have been proud.

Mengele wouldn´t have paid them, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 29, 2018, 03:02:11 pm

It's not exactly Mengele tier, because while it may seem somewhat unethical to some it actually is useful information. Important even, considering how frequently people are exposed to it and how paradoxically badly understood it all is. It even makes sense that they'd sponsor such research, even if only to keep from having to pay infinity dollars in lawsuits, fines, and indemnities somewhere down the line. The only thing that's really a problem here in my mind is that they (seem to have? the translation of those articles came out strange in some places) manipulated the results.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 03:05:54 pm

Mengele's experiments provided medical society with useful and important information too :p

But yeah, ofcourse this is nowhere near as unethical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on January 29, 2018, 03:49:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 09:01:15 am

NOx's are mainly produced by diesel engines. According to the Stuttgarter Zeitung, there were no measurable health effects in the test subjects.
https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html (https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html)

I am very confused as to what that test was supposed to accomplish.
The two NOx produced by diesel engines are nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide. Both are toxic gases that the human body is somewhat* resistant to and that have no cumulative effects on long term exposure, at least as long as you don't cross that threshold where your body can just shrug them off (after that threshold "long term exposure" is the least of your concerns anyways). Especially when compared to other things found in engine exhausts, those two are essentially harmless.
Don't misunderstand me, they'll still kill you pretty horribly on higher concentrations, but the ammounts that come out of even an unclean engine would be surviveable pretty much infinitely for any human in reasonably good health.

Specifically testing for those two in engine exhaust is like taking a very long list of dangerous stuff, testing the two least dangerous ones and then saying that the entire list is save because those two didn't kill you.
(And I guess that answers my own question)

Manipulating the results just makes this even more senseless then it was to beginn with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on January 29, 2018, 03:57:44 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 03:05:54 pm

Mengele's experiments provided medical society with useful and important information too :p

It's a tangent but no, they really didn't. Very little of scientific value came out of the Nazi camps at all in fact. The pressure chamber experiments everyone talks about were too poorly standardized and recorded to be useful to anybody, and even if they hadn't been so poorly controlled they weren't going to discover anything that wasn't already well understood. The almost as frequently mentioned studies on frostbite are similarly useless. Mengele's own studies on dwarfism and on twins were intended to prove Nazi racial theory and were essentially just thinly-veiled torture. Here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/06/mein_data.html

Quote

Leaving aside the question of medical ethics, did any useful science ever come out of Nazi experiments on unwilling subjects?

Very little. Concentration camp doctors conducted research on vaccines, antibiotics, fertility, transplantation, and eugenics. The majority of those experiments were either useless, scientifically unsound, or duplicative. More interesting was a series of studies on the limits of human endurance: At the Dachau concentration camp in 1942, Nazi doctor Sigmund Rascher submerged approximately 300 naked victims in ice water for two to five hours and monitored their heart rate, muscle control, and core temperature, and he noted when the subjects lost consciousness. (His stated goal was to see how long a downed pilot could survive in the North Sea.) More than 80 of the prisoners died during the experiments; nevertheless, some argue that Rascher's data are valuable and irreproducible. Dozens of medical journal articles have cited the research, which has played a minor role in the development of survival suits for cold-water fishing boats and warming techniques for hypothermia patients.

Rascher's findings do not establish an absolute human tolerance for cold, since his victims were emaciated and suffering from weeks or months of inhumane treatment. But the results do supplement and extend modern experiments, in which subjects aren't permitted to go below 95 degrees. (The guinea pigs at Dachau were left in the ice water until their body temperatures dropped to 80 degrees or less.) From this we glean that cooling rates at very low temperatures are generally consistent with those in moderate conditions.

None of the other concentration camp experiments proved useful in any way. Many of the results were predictable, like the fact that imprisoned Gypsies could not survive on salt water alone for 12 days. Other projects, like Josef Mengele's attempts to increase the multiple birth rate among Aryans, were utter failures, while research on mass sterilization would be of no use to modern doctors if it ever did produce substantive data. The few concentration camp tests that pursued worthwhile ends, like testing the safety of novel antibiotics, were being duplicated elsewhere under humane conditions and with more reliable results. (For their antibiotic tests, the Nazis would inflict a wound on a prisoner, induce gangrene by cutting off circulation to the injury and exposing it to bacteria, and then attempt to treat the infection.)

(The concentration camp research was just one aspect of an otherwise very successful Nazi science program. WWII-era German doctors established the link between asbestos and lung cancer, and German scientists developed the electron microscope.)

After hearing the evidence against the Nazi doctors at the Nuremberg trials, the judges adopted 10 guidelines to prevent future unethical research. Informed consent, the first of the recommendations, remains the keystone of medical studies. But the scientific community still hasn't reached a consensus on how to treat valid scientific data that was obtained unethically. Most journals do not maintain blanket prohibitions on citations of Nazi data, but researchers have seen their articles rejected for referencing Rascher's studies.

The article notes Rascher's research as being used elsewhere, but even it has serious problems.

Quote from: Cyroth on January 29, 2018, 03:49:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 09:01:15 am

NOx's are mainly produced by diesel engines. According to the Stuttgarter Zeitung, there were no measurable health effects in the test subjects.
https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html (https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.kommentar-zu-den-abgasexperimenten-der-autolobby-groteske-versuche.eead64ae-cbd2-4f04-8d67-d53ba9b61815.html)

I am very confused as to what that test was supposed to accomplish.
The two NOx produced by diesel engines are nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide. Both are toxic gases that the human body is somewhat* resistant to and that have no cumulative effects on long term exposure, at least as long as you don't cross that threshold where your body can just shrug them off (after that threshold "long term exposure" is the least of your concerns anyways). Especially when compared to other things found in engine exhausts, those two are essentially harmless.
Don't misunderstand me, they'll still kill you pretty horribly on higher concentrations, but the ammounts that come out of even an unclean engine would be surviveable pretty much infinitely for any human in reasonably good health.

Specifically testing for those two in engine exhaust is like taking a very long list of dangerous stuff, testing the two least dangerous ones and then saying that the entire list is save because those two didn't kill you.
(And I guess that answers my own question)

My guess is that the goal is to look for subtler things than respiratory irritation. Essentially harmless doesn't necessarily mean harmless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 04:05:33 pm

Quote from: Baffler on January 29, 2018, 03:57:44 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2018, 03:05:54 pm

Mengele's experiments provided medical society with useful and important information too :p

It's a tangent but no, they really didn't. Very little of scientific value came out of the Nazi camps at all in fact. The pressure chamber experiments everyone talks about were too poorly standardized and recorded to be useful to anybody, and even if they hadn't been so poorly controlled they weren't going to discover anything that wasn't already well understood. The almost as frequently mentioned studies on frostbite are similarly useless. Mengele's own studies on dwarfism and on twins were intended to prove Nazi racial theory and were essentially just thinly-veiled torture. Here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/06/mein_data.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/06/mein_data.html)

Quote

Leaving aside the question of medical ethics, did any useful science ever come out of Nazi experiments on unwilling subjects?

Very little. Concentration camp doctors conducted research on vaccines, antibiotics, fertility, transplantation, and eugenics. The majority of those experiments were either useless, scientifically unsound, or duplicative. More interesting was a series of studies on the limits of human endurance: At the Dachau concentration camp in 1942, Nazi doctor Sigmund Rascher submerged approximately 300 naked victims in ice water for two to five hours and monitored their heart rate, muscle control, and core temperature, and he noted when the subjects lost consciousness. (His stated goal was to see how long a downed pilot could survive in the North Sea.) More than 80 of the prisoners died during the experiments; nevertheless, some argue that Rascher's data are valuable and irreproducible. Dozens of medical journal articles have cited the research, which has played a minor role in the development of survival suits for cold-water fishing boats and warming techniques for hypothermia patients.

Rascher's findings do not establish an absolute human tolerance for cold, since his victims were emaciated and suffering from weeks or months of inhumane treatment. But the results do supplement and extend modern experiments, in which subjects aren't permitted to go below 95 degrees. (The guinea pigs at Dachau were left in the ice water until their body temperatures dropped to 80 degrees or less.) From this we glean that cooling rates at very low temperatures are generally consistent with those in moderate conditions.

None of the other concentration camp experiments proved useful in any way. Many of the results were predictable, like the fact that imprisoned Gypsies could not survive on salt water alone for 12 days. Other projects, like Josef Mengele's attempts to increase the multiple birth rate among Aryans, were utter failures, while research on mass sterilization would be of no use to modern doctors if it ever did produce substantive data. The few concentration camp tests that pursued worthwhile ends, like testing the safety of novel antibiotics, were being duplicated elsewhere under humane conditions and with more reliable results. (For their antibiotic tests, the Nazis would inflict a wound on a prisoner, induce gangrene by cutting off circulation to the injury and exposing it to bacteria, and then attempt to treat the infection.)

(The concentration camp research was just one aspect of an otherwise very successful Nazi science program. WWII-era German doctors established the link between asbestos and lung cancer, and German scientists developed the electron microscope.)

After hearing the evidence against the Nazi doctors at the Nuremberg trials, the judges adopted 10 guidelines to prevent future unethical research. Informed consent, the first of the recommendations, remains the keystone of medical studies. But the scientific community still hasn't reached a consensus on how to treat valid scientific data that was obtained unethically. Most journals do not maintain blanket prohibitions on citations of Nazi data, but researchers have seen their articles rejected for referencing Rascher's studies.

I guess I was wrong then. I thought some of Mengele's experiments on exsanguination and blood transfusion were at the base of ER protocols, but to be honest, I can't find anything on the subject.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 29, 2018, 04:12:40 pm

I read an academic article somewhere claiming that Nazi scientists post-war used knowledge gained through ... dubious ... means to build fairly useful medical knowledge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on January 29, 2018, 07:08:01 pm

I've never actually read what that "useful data" would actually be. I also highly wonder if such data couldn't have been acquired by other means such as animal testing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2018, 07:41:28 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 29, 2018, 04:12:40 pm

I read an academic article somewhere claiming that Nazi scientists post-war used knowledge gained through ... dubious ... means to build fairly useful medical knowledge.

Some stuff about vaccines, but the real profiteers were the Americans, who gave Unit-731 experimenters legal immunity in exchange for their data. Where the Nazi experimenters were imprisoned or executed, the Unit-731 dudes ended up becoming Health Ministers, heads of Medical Boards and Medical Universities, and the data they collected was certainly useful. Though you wouldn't call it research, it was not research. It was experimentation; putting people through hell to see what humans can survive. You can't even excuse it as ruthless experimentation, as a lot of the suffering caused was entirely unnecessary and counterproductive. Unit-731 went beyond by also being at the forefront of biological weapons research and application. Which of course, went hand in hand with their medical experiments; easy to test cures if you can make patients.

Quote from: https://unit731.org/experiments/

An anonymous medical assistant described in a 1995 New York Times interview his first vivisection:
“The fellow knew that it was over for him, and so he didn’t struggle when they led him into the room and tied him down.
But when I picked up the scalpel, that’s when he began screaming.
I cut him open from the chest to the stomach, and he screamed terribly, and his face was all twisted in agony. He made this unimaginable sound, he was screaming so horribly. But then finally he stopped.
This was all in a day’s work for the surgeons, but it really left an impression on me because it was my first time.”

The way they found effective treatments can only be seen as deliberately as malicious as possible. The frostbite one for example - there are immediately better ways to research effective frostbite treatments without tying prisoners naked to posts outdoors in Siberian winter. It's like setting people on fire to learn how to treat burns.

Quote from: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yCZ6yr-J3dIC&pg=PA84&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=monke&f=false

Experiments covered every conceivable approach to spreading disease, and to prevention. A typical laboratory experiment with cholera was conducted in May and June of 1940. Twenty prisoners, all between the ages of twenty and thirty and in good health, were selected for the test. Eight persons were given cholera vaccine injections produced with ultrasonic equipment. Eight others were injected with cholera vaccine manufactured by a conventional method. Four of the experimented were not inoculated. Twenty days later, all the victims were forced to drink copious amounts of cholera-infected milk. The four who received no immunization contracted cholera and died. Several of those tested who received conventional cholera injections also became ill and died. The eight who were vaccinated with ult,rasonic cholera vaccine showed no cholera symptoms. A similar test with plague vaccines produced comparable results. Ishii then ordered his Vaccine Squad, renamed the "A Team" in 1940, to work only with ultrasonically produced vaccines.
Ishii, Kitano, and the other Unit 731 researchers did not trumpet their activities throughout the scientific world, but neither did they shrink from publicly sharing some of their findings. They just disguised the human experimentation aspect. Researchers published or read more than one hundred scientific papers, both during the heyday of Unit 731's operation as well as in the postwar period. When dealing with humans, the researchers referred to experiments with "moneys" or "Manchurian monkeys"; animal experiments were labeled with the animals' proper subspecies, such as "long-tailed monkey," "Taiwan monkey," or "Formosan monkey."'

For the bioweapons people, developing cures were a necessary component towards developing effective bioweapons. A bioweapon that will eradicate your enemies is useless if you lack the cure to stop it eradicating your own, and if deployed will require countermeasures against retaliatory bioweapon deployment. Thus the need for these kinds of medical advances were military affairs of paramount importance to the warring states, certain in the conviction that this would be a war of exterminate or be exterminated. It produced this monstrosity, and produced the impetus with which the US gave Unit-731 protection in exchange for their advances in medicine and bioweapons research

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on January 29, 2018, 11:13:33 pm

Is this the NAZI/731 horrifying medical experiment thread now?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 30, 2018, 03:49:13 am

If she were a 'remainer', wouldn't she just spike the proverbial brexit ball and cancel brexit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 30, 2018, 03:52:30 am

She's in a high pressure job. She's also not as 'strong and stable' as she'd like you to think, but at least some of that arises from the difficulty of her position.

Quote from: smjjames on January 30, 2018, 03:49:13 am

If she were a 'remainer', wouldn't she just spike the proverbial brexit ball and cancel brexit?

And no. There's this pesky thing called democracy...

I've no doubt she has Remain tendencies, but she's also too far down this path to hop off it now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 06:28:12 am

In september 2016, Insiya(3y) was kidnapped using much violence from the home of her grandmother, in Amsterdam.
Even though one of the kidnappers, who later turned out to be a professional US hired thug, was tackled and held to the ground by an alert neighbor, the other kidnappers got away with the child, and an Amber Alert did not bring her back.

Some time later, her father, Shehzad Hemani, a very wealthy businessman from India, reported the child was in his care in Mumbai.
The child's mother hasn't seen or heard from her child since.

Dutch crime reporter John van de Heuvel took an interest in the case, and in the past year has discovered that she is being kept in her Indian grandmother's house in a rich district of Mumbai, and is sent to an expensive private school protected by heavily armed guards.

Even though the child's mother has won every civil case in the Netherlands, and Hemani is a wanted criminal here for ordering the armed kidnapping, up until now, Indian authorities showed little willingness to cooperate, let alone extradite the extremely wealthy businessman.
Our ministry of foreign affairs mediated the case with Indian authorities, and even our prime minister Rutte even personally discussed the matter with the Indian president Modi, until now, to no avail.
India is one of the countries that did not sign the international child kidnapping treaty.

But now, an Indian court has ruled that the child needs to be returned to her mother in the Netherlands, before the 27th of march, including a clause that does not allow for further legal proceedings to delay the date.
The mother's lawyer is cautiously optimistic.

It is unclear how Hemani will respond to the verdict, and if he is going to cooperate with returning the child.
For now, his only response is a Facebook post with his daughter, with the text 'Love live happiness with my daughter'.
Meanwhile in Amsterdam, the mother is put in police protective custody.
In the past, a legal defeat of Hemani has led to voodoo dolls being delivered at her doorstep.
The father is rich enough to hire an entire army of mercenaries.

Let's hope he doesn't kill the kid now to 'preserve family honour'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on January 30, 2018, 07:15:09 am

At least there has been agreement on a 21-month period after the UK leave to smooth the trade talks. I wonder if that temporary period will just be extended though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 30, 2018, 07:50:07 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 30, 2018, 03:52:30 am

She's in a high pressure job. She's also not as 'strong and stable' as she'd like you to think, but at least some of that arises from the difficulty of her position.

A lot of it from the fact she lost a 20 pout lead over her rivals in six weeks, losing a majority (however slight) and then allied her party with fundamentalists in order to keep her position.

She has no idea what she’s doing. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 30, 2018, 08:21:10 am

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm glad the DUP has a hand in there. It stymied the Sinn Fein power play over closing Stormont, and has made sure that the views of actual people in Northern Ireland are heard in issues such as having the border with Eu across the Irish Sea.

I don't like the party, but for the most part it seems to attract those who actually stand for what they believe. It gets rather tiresome having your country regarded as a pawn to the Union, rather than an integral part of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 09:39:41 am

The man that hit and injured 7 people, mostly tourists, with his car near Amsterdam Central Station, june last year, has been cleared of any further prosecution. Multiple lines of inquiry have confirmed his claims, and initial findings by emergency services that it was no terrorist attack, but an accident. The driver is a diabetic that fell unconscious behind the wheel.
The man will face no charges.

The initial statement by the police, who pretty shortly after the incident already declared it was a diabetes-related accident was met with a lot of scepcis on social media.
Newspaper columnist Leon de Winter lead a conspiracy theory that the government was trying to hide a terrorist attack from the public.
The conspiracy was strenghtened by the police stating that there was no camera footage of the incident, and a police source leaking the driver's name to the website of GeenStijl, showing him to be an Dutch man with Arab ethnicity.

The Public Prosecutor has now however definitively ascertained that it was, beyond any doubt, an accident.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2018, 10:05:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 30, 2018, 03:49:13 am

If she were a 'remainer', wouldn't she just spike the proverbial brexit ball and cancel brexit?

She was a remainer in the campaign, but a lukewarm one, one who the remainer campaigners were certain was about as helpful as having Italy as your ally in a war. Thus I'd say she's mostly a careerist; believing in siding with whoever wins, but not being all that passionate for any public causes, except the cause of policing the public

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Silverthrone on January 30, 2018, 12:30:27 pm

Meanwhile in Sweden, charges have been brought forward onto the murderer Rakhmat Akilov. He is the man that, on the 7th of April last spring, stole a delivery lorry, and ploughed down the busy Drottningholm street in Stockholm, murdering five individuals and injuring several others. Once the vehicle had crashed, he then detonated a bomb, constructed from butane gas canisters, screws, knife-blades and other improvised shrapnel.

He stands charged for terrorism, attempt to commit terrorism and, alternatively, causing grave danger for others.

"With the intention to cause severe fear in the population of Sweden, and to illegitimately force the government and parliament to abort the Swedish participation in the military training program that is being carried out by the global coalition against the Islamic State in Iraq."
In brief, the murderer has sworn allegiance to the Islamic State, he has scouted the intended area, telephone chats has been intercepted where he is discussing the matter with foreign individuals, he has built and prepared an explosive device, and he did not count on being captured alive, and had no fixed escape plan. His motivation was to pressure the West to cease bombing operations in Syria, and to cease providing funds and training in the battle against the Islamic State.
The chief prosecutor has stated thus: "My goal is that he should never again be able to move freely in our society". What goal could be nobler?

He does not, apparently, wish to be sentenced to life imprisonment, but wants a set release date. One wonders where this new and sudden will to live an ordinary life comes from. Indeed, he almost seems to imagine himself as fit to live an ordinary life amongst the people that he plotted to kill. That is while he has also expressed disappointment at the amount of casualties, which were apparently much lower than he had expected.
Devil take you, Akilov.

The murderer's legal defender has revealed that he has recieved hatred from members of the public for his role. That is, of course, simply not on. I cannot imagine a more soul-revolting, tedious and unrewarding task as has been set for the defence. One must admire a man who is prepared to do his duty and publically defend such a creature, for the good of a well-run trial.
The trial continues. Current estimates state that a verdict will likely have been reached by midsummer.

A Very Brief Description of the Murderer:

Rakhmat Akilov, of Samarkand, Uzbekhistan. 39 years of age.
He has been found mentally fit to stand trial.
He claimed asylum in Sweden on political grounds in 2014. The Immigration Authority does, however, not believe him and denies his request. He takes the matter to court, but is also denied there. He is then slated for expatriation, but this cannot be completed; a common problem in the country. He slips away, and remain in the country as an illegal alien. He works for a while in the construction business, which is notorious for its unregistered, illegal labour activities, along with the hotel and restaurant sector.
During 2016, he develops an interest for extremist movements. Conflicting sources claims that the internal security police were informed of this, but they state that it cannot be confirmed. However, nothing seems to indicate that he is commited to carrying out a terrorist attack.
That is, of course, until he is tracked down, apprehended and identified a few hours after the 7th of April attack, 2017. During the remand procedures, he admits to carrying out the attack.

As is no doubt abundantly clear, I intensively hate this creature, and I wish the prosecutors well in their pursuit to contain him for the rest of his life. That is the best result one can hope for, in legal terms. I hope that this will also become a good arguement for change, particularly in this year, when the wheel of the national election is beginning to turn again. It has happened, and nothing can make it undone. But measures can be taken so that it is less likely to happen again.

My word, it is truly trial season.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 03:16:22 pm

Meanwhile in Spain, the inauguration of Puigdemont as premier of Catalonia had to be postponed by chairman of parliament Torrent, since there was no way Puigdemont could be inaugurated without being arrested first.
Last week, the Spanish Constitutional Court ordained that Puigdemont could only be legally inaugurated if he were to be physically present at the parliament. Apart from that, he has to ask permission for that with the same judge that wants to persecute him for rebellion and instigation.
Torrent has been explicitly forbidden to inaugurate Puigdemont in any other way than the way ordained, and threatened with being banned from holding office for many years if he did so anyways.

Torrent cancelled the inauguration ceremony this morning, but he did uphold Puigdemont as rightful candidate.
"Nor vice-premier Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría, nor some court 600 miles from here can determine who will be the premier of Catalonia. This is a task for the democratically elected members of parliament".

Puigdemont's parliamentary fraction has appealed the court's verdict, claiming it to be illegal. They state that a member of parliament, such as Puigdemont, has immunity from persecution, except when caught for a 'flagrant delict'. They say that cancelling the inauguration was unnescessary, and that Puigdemont should have come, and could not have been lawfully arrested.

The past few days, Spanish police has been patrolling the French border, to see if Puigdemont would try to slip into the country. The park in which the Catalonion parliament lies has been hermetically sealed and patrolled with helicopters.
In the afternoon, thousands of protestors broke through the fences sealing off the park, and gathered outside parliament. Many of them were wearing Puigdemont face masks. It seemed for a while that Puigdemont would use the rouse to sneak into parliament unnoiticed, but he wasn't part of the crowd.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 30, 2018, 03:33:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 03:16:22 pm

The past few days, Spanish police has been patrolling the French border, to see if Puigdemont would try to slip into the country. The park in which the Catalonion parliament lies has been hermetically sealed and patrolled with helicopters.
In the afternoon, thousands of protestors broke through the fences sealing off the park, and gathered outside parliament. Many of them were wearing Puigdemont face masks. It seemed for a while that Puigdemont would use the rouse to sneak into parliament unnoiticed, but he wasn't part of the crowd.

I wonder what they're worried about.

I mean, the politicians in Madrid say it's illegal for Catalonia to secede. The Constitutional Court say it's illegal for Catalonia to secede. Let him take his seat and bumble about. They might even get an opportunity to beat up some Catalonians again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 30, 2018, 04:43:08 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 30, 2018, 03:33:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 03:16:22 pm

The past few days, Spanish police has been patrolling the French border, to see if Puigdemont would try to slip into the country. The park in which the Catalonion parliament lies has been hermetically sealed and patrolled with helicopters.
In the afternoon, thousands of protestors broke through the fences sealing off the park, and gathered outside parliament. Many of them were wearing Puigdemont face masks. It seemed for a while that Puigdemont would use the rouse to sneak into parliament unnoiticed, but he wasn't part of the crowd.

I wonder what they're worried about.
 

This is more or less what the central goverment thinks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgyROiDBs0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 30, 2018, 07:07:50 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 30, 2018, 03:33:37 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 03:16:22 pm

The past few days, Spanish police has been patrolling the French border, to see if Puigdemont would try to slip into the country. The park in which the Catalonion parliament lies has been hermetically sealed and patrolled with helicopters.
In the afternoon, thousands of protestors broke through the fences sealing off the park, and gathered outside parliament. Many of them were wearing Puigdemont face masks. It seemed for a while that Puigdemont would use the rouse to sneak into parliament unnoiticed, but he wasn't part of the crowd.

I wonder what they're worried about.

I mean, the politicians in Madrid say it's illegal for Catalonia to secede. The Constitutional Court say it's illegal for Catalonia to secede. Let him take his seat and bumble about. They might even get an opportunity to beat up some Catalonians again.

It's possible they don't want or need to beat up some Catalonians again.  It's possible that they've decided that committing illegal acts requires punishment, rather than simply bemoaning that an illegal act was committed.  I mean, it is still Rajoy in the Prime Minister's chair, the same involved deeply in the whole Bárcenas' papers incident, so the latter in particular's rather rich in irony, but even so, it's still possible. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 30, 2018, 07:44:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 30, 2018, 03:16:22 pm

Many of them were wearing Puigdemont face masks. It seemed for a while that Puigdemont would use the rouse to sneak into parliament unnoiticed, but he wasn't part of the crowd.

Lol this. Very much the modern equivalent of the whole crowd saying "I am Spartacus!".

Anyhow, seems like doing stuff like hermetically sealing off the park that the parliament is in would only further piss off the Catalonians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2018, 03:53:12 am

Since waiting for a Brexit deal could take many more centuries, the Dutch decided not to wait and struck a deal with the UK.
At least for their train connections.

In a few months, the Eurostar will offer direct train connections between Amsterdam and London, and Rotterdam and London. It will take 4 hours to get to London from Amsterdam, slightly less from Rotterdam. Trains will go in both directions twice a day.

For now, passengers will still face some delays, because they have to disembark in Brussels for passport controls.
UK and the Netherlands are working on creating some UK territory on the two central stations of Amsterdam and Rotterdam, so the passport checks can be done there, getting rid of the delays.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2018, 06:48:38 am

Wow, that's quite smart on the part of the Netherlands. I tip my hat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on January 31, 2018, 12:48:38 pm

Smart until the perfidious english need to protect "British interests" and build an airstrip in the train station.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2018, 12:56:11 pm

Then we'll just sink their navy again and have Willy marry Harry to become king of England. Been there, done that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2018, 01:09:33 pm

Well, maybe we won't send the Duke of Leicester over to help your asses out of a touch of tyrannical overrule, then!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 31, 2018, 04:59:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2018, 12:56:11 pm

Then we'll just sink their navy again and have Willy marry Harry to become king of England. Been there, done that.

You mean William, he'd be the heir apparent after Charles. Though I'm probably missing some historical sublety here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2018, 05:05:13 pm

Willy marrying Willy would just be too confusing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on January 31, 2018, 05:56:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2018, 05:05:13 pm

Willy marrying Willy would just be too confusing

But it would be very much worth it for the dick jokes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2018, 06:20:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 31, 2018, 04:59:19 pm

You mean William, he'd be the heir apparent after Charles. Though I'm probably missing some historical sublety here.

In the late 17th century, King James II sought to rule all the Kingdoms of the British Isles as one United Kingdom; which caused rebellions from Scotland to England, both of which were crushed. The English were especially chafing under this monarch who flitted between religious toleration and Catholic assertion, who sought to rule as a Scottish King against an English parliament, curtailing the power of the parliament tremendously, making James II one of the most powerful monarchs in English history. King James II probably could have ruled until death had he not got his wife pregnant, which caused Protestants in Britain and Netherlands to increase their plotting to a frenetic level of energy. For the Westminster parliament, a definite catholic line of succession would spell the deathknell for their parliamentary power in favour of Royal rule, but for the Dutch this was absolutely worse case scenario. King Louis XIV of France had been expanding all over Europe, with three principle opponents: England, the United Provinces (Netherlands) and the Holy Roman Emperor, Emperor Leopold I.
Emperor Leopold I was preoccupied with fending off the great kebabini Empire (it had only been a few years since the siege of Vienna), thus the Emperor's support against France was uncertain. The Dutch were at this point a redonkulously stronk naval power, and while the Dutch could not defeat the French army, they could open their dykes and flood the Netherlands, grinding the French campaign to a halt. Consequently the French realized that in order to defeat the growing alliance of Italian, Dutch, German and Spanish states they needed an alliance with the English to neutralize their Dutch flanks, giving the English french monies in exchange for alliance. This made it all a very dangerous position for the Dutch, and so they planned to launch a military regime change in England, to depose the French-friendly Catholic monarch and replace him with a Dutch friendly protestant one. Before the Dutch can complete their invasion plans, William of Orange, the Stadtholder of the United Provinces, receives an invitation from English bishops, politicians (from both Tory and Whig parties) and commanders, to come to England and claim the throne himself.

The Dutch invaded, commanded by William the Most Highest Orangest. This is notable for being the last successful invasion of the British Isles in history; the Dutch forces were disciplined, looting nothing, working closely with their English allies to defeat James's less experienced forces (by contrast, the Dutch forces were veterans of many wars). The Dutch gained a powerful ally against the French (unfortunately for the Netherlands, the English would prove to be vastly more dangerous as allies than enemies), the English re-established the sovereignty of Parliament, revoking the ability for the Monarch to dispense laws or create armies in peacetime, entrenching parliamentary practice to this day. What is probably most remarkable is that the casualties incurred in the Dutch invasion were like 2 dozen dudes. It would also cause some severe shitflinging a century later, when French revolutionaries and their allies argued with British conservatives and their allies, with the Irish statesman saying the British had the Glorious Revolution, while the French had a fake news Revolution; Thomas Paine, the Anglo-American disagreed, saying the Glorious Revolution was the fake news Revolution. The rest would be bloody wars and that dickhead Napoleon slaughtering gorillions of people in the name of freedom, the first recorded instance of freedoming people into the liberty of death, only by bayonet instead of bomb.
But that's getting off topic, basically martinuzz is saying the Dutch will invade London, kick Theresa May out of no.10 and replace her with a Dutch sausage vendor

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 31, 2018, 06:38:05 pm

Heh, if you replace the word Dutch with American, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference since it sounds exactly like something that we've done at least once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2018, 07:45:41 pm

Sure, but I don't think England would look pretty in Afghanistan's dresses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 31, 2018, 07:55:07 pm

I dunno, T.E. Lawrence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence) looked britishly spiffy in arab garb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2018, 07:57:36 pm

I dunno, he kinda looks like someone who would say "Mother Superior will see you now."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/With_Lawrence_in_Arabia.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 01, 2018, 03:48:24 am

Despite a court ruling in Turkey yesterday, which ordered the release of Amnesty International chairman Taner Kiliç, Turkish authorities refuse to release him.
He has been rearrested in his cell, and taken into police custody in Izmir.
The arrested human rights activists from Germany and Sweden will also not be released.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on February 01, 2018, 04:02:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 01, 2018, 03:48:24 am

Despite a court ruling in Turkey yesterday, which ordered the release of Amnesty International chairman Taner Kiliç, Turkish authorities refuse to release him.
He has been rearrested in his cell, and taken into police custody in Izmir.
The arrested human rights activists from Germany and Sweden will also not be released.

How do you arrest someone who is already arrested?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 01, 2018, 04:24:07 pm

Quote from: Teneb on February 01, 2018, 04:02:40 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 01, 2018, 03:48:24 am

Despite a court ruling in Turkey yesterday, which ordered the release of Amnesty International chairman Taner Kiliç, Turkish authorities refuse to release him.
He has been rearrested in his cell, and taken into police custody in Izmir.
The arrested human rights activists from Germany and Sweden will also not be released.

How do you arrest someone who is already arrested?

They were about to be released and immediately arrested again.

Gotta love that independent juridical power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 01, 2018, 05:48:06 pm

Lmao just managed to bluff my way into a live q&a event by the aid of some wonderful classics student and a duplicate ticket to see Jacob Rees-Mogg and drink free shitty Uni wine. Quality night, and turns out Moggy goes to Wetherspoons, but the heretic does not even nandos. Pretty cool, with little bits of drama and fun along the way - I did not expect the queue to extend to hundreds of people, with a zealous contingent of 2 dozen protesters shouting Tory scum at the mogglygoglly.
Within the Q&A it was pretty decent, Mogglothotep made it clear he was not going to be Prime Minister any time soon (and was very diplomatic in "not understanding" questions pertaining to which cabinet ministers might consider needed replacing), and was very specific in stating that his ambitions were not to be Prime Minister for as long as Theresa May was PM. The audience was pretty balanced too, which is probably the greatest surprise, as there was no attempt by the organizers to balance the audience - it just turned out that way, that those in the front of the queue were a decent mix. Thus for example when Mogdan the Destroyer said capitalism had the power to reduce absolute poverty, half the room was laughing at him, the other applauding.
I took especial delight in noting the groups of zealots, of which even they were balanced! Green and purple haired marxists from the drama department were juxtaposed to the liberal faction economic students, wearing their smart dresses and the gents, their tweed suits. The two zealous factions in turn had their champions, for the thatcherites they had a single lady, whose hair was half and half blonde and black, who would applaud every mention of thatcher or capitalism (even if it meant she would be the sole person giving a standing ovation in a silent audience!). For the marxists they had a gentleman of poor neck posture with peroxide hair, who caused disquiet sentiment to spread throughout the hall by calling Mogolopolous stupid, and shouting when he did not have the mic. The Thatcherite champion won, counter-shouting to stop being rude, which won overall. It was an ok thing (https://youtu.be/sjjDv4O2pgo?t=24m9s), if awkwardly organized, I don't think they expected Mogg to draw such a crowd

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 01, 2018, 05:51:05 pm

I'm actually quite jealous. Next time send me a duplicate ticket, too? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 01, 2018, 07:11:58 pm

Can we replace all post-debate commentators with LW already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2018, 12:51:55 pm

In Macerata, Italy, a right-wing extremist shot and injured 6 random black people, opening fire while driving his car.
after shooting the six people, he got out of his car, dressed in an Italian flag, and made a hitler salute to a monument for war victims.
The 6 victims, 5 African men and an African woman, are currently in hospital.

During last years elections, the man was electable locally for the Lega party (former name, Lega Nord), the rightwing populist party that looks like is going to win the national elections next month.
Before that, he was a member of Terza Posizione, an extreme right group founded by Roberto Fiore, current party leader of the neofascist party Forza Nueva.
The same Roberto Fiore defended the shooter's actions last saturday, and offered to pay all legal expenses.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on February 04, 2018, 01:08:49 pm

a little correction on italian politics: Lega isn't going to win the national elections next month. Their coalition, of which they are only one of the 2 main components, is the front runner. Even then, it is by no means sure that the coalitions will get enough votes to govern. In case they don't get enough seats by themselves, out of coalition alliances would be needed, and a popular speculation is that in that case the centrist right wing would try to ally with the centrist left wing, leaving Lega alone.

Just wanted to say that while they are a major party, they are not by themselves the dominant one like that post would seem to imply. (in fact dominance is in very scarse supply right now and it is extremely doubtful there will be any sort of functional government coming out of elections.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 04, 2018, 01:21:53 pm

I think LW incited a riot at the next Moggference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 04, 2018, 01:29:07 pm

I sort of assume LW is always trying to incite riots, he's just out there posting on his phone while screaming over doctored agitprop photos.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 04, 2018, 01:43:02 pm

He didn’t mention anything about it, I’m sure he’d say if the great Mogg tried peacemaking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2018, 02:24:55 pm

I wasn't there shouting FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT, if that's what you asking. But basically what happened is 5 antifa got into a fight with some of the attendees of the event in Bristol Uni; interestingly all the events he's gone to, the tickets sold out in hours or minutes, and there has always been a protest or attempt at no platforming him. Something about his unmoderated mogglyness attracts immense popularity and protest simultaneously. Interestingly while the students all punched each other they didn't harm a single hair on the head of Mogg, despite Mogg going to the forefront of the kerfluffle to try and commence advanced C O N F L I C T  R E S O L U T I O N  techniques. Few retained their chill, and there was much light punching, which I'd rate at 1 / 10 football fans. The drama is a lot of the times overhyped, but this drama is unique because one of the masked protesters also put up a poster baring all

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/7IWaWQC.png)

The contrast between man's soul, to wish to be hidden, and to wish to be fully naked, is lain bare for all to ponder. Not much else to say other than I hope this dude eats more stuff, not one to sound like a babushka, but the bourgeoisie needs to eat more oat and potato to become strong like proletariat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 04, 2018, 07:23:12 pm

They don't look very much alike. They guy on the right look like a 50-year old Swedish punk-rock wannabe has been.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Magnus_Uggla_Molleplatsen_02.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2018, 09:52:41 pm

This year's eurovision sure is weird

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 04, 2018, 09:54:39 pm

You say that as though it’s surprising it gets weird.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 05, 2018, 06:37:59 am

The Netherlands has officially withdrawn their ambassador to Turkey, after failed talks to try and improve relations, which have been frigid since Dutch police kicked a Turkish minister out of the country who wanted to rally Erdogan supporters against Gülen supporters.
Furthermore, as long as we do not have an embassador to Turkey, a Turkish ambassador will also not be welcome in our country.
Withdrawing the embassador and closing the mebassy is the most severe diplomatic action possible between to allied countries.

EDIT: Meanwhile in the Dutch carribean, the Dutch government has decided to take control of the government of St.Eustatius. The Island Council (local parliament) will be immediatly disbanded and replaced with Dutch civil servants. The Deputy of State and commander in control of the island are also immediatly fired, and will be replaced.

With this, the Dutch government hopes to put an end to the lawlessness, corruption, and poverty that is plagueing the island ever since they became semi-independent from the Netherlands.
tl;dr: recolonization, Dutch style.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on February 05, 2018, 07:04:06 am

An independent nation of 3500 people is clearly going to have some issues with ensuring due process. You'd get the small town bullshit, but without any higher authorities that can moderate bad behavior.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2018, 06:37:03 am

Two major hospitals in the Netherlands, and all Dutch professional addiction care organisations have filed charges against the 4 tobacco companies operating in the Netherlands, sueing them for attempted murder, causing grieveous bodily harm, and perjury.

EDIT: in other news, Cuban LGBT have discovered a loophole in global customs:
They book a flight to Moscow, for which they need no visum. The flight from Cuba to Moscow makes a refueling stop at Schiphol Airport, the Netherlands.
As soon as they disembark for the wait at the airport, they apply for asylum in the Netherlands. (Fearing for one's safety because of sexual preference is something you can get asylum for over here)

In the past 3 months, over 300 Cubans have applied for asylum this way. They're not planning on ever going back to Cuba.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 07, 2018, 03:42:29 pm

More parties are filing charges against the tobacco industry.
The city councils of Amsterdam and Utrecht have made it known that they, as a city, will add their name to those pressing charges.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 07, 2018, 07:25:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 07, 2018, 03:42:29 pm

More parties are filing charges against the tobacco industry.
The city councils of Amsterdam and Utrecht have made it known that they, as a city, will add their name to those pressing charges.

Good, the tobacco industry is as close as you can get to pure evil.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2018, 02:25:54 pm

We have a reverse situation ongoing in the Netherlands compared to the US.
Where in the US, people high up could be in trouble for lying that they did not have Russian contacts...
Over here, our minister of foreign affairs, Halbe Zijlstra, is in danger of being removed from office because he lied about having met Putin, while in fact he did not.

(In 2016, he bragged about being present at a meeting in Putin's resort, and kept up the lie until exposed yesterday.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 12, 2018, 04:57:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2018, 02:25:54 pm

We have a reverse situation ongoing in the Netherlands compared to the US.
Where in the US, people high up could be in trouble for lying that they did not have Russian contacts...
Over here, our minister of foreign affairs, Halbe Zijlstra, is in danger of being removed from office because he lied about having met Putin, while in fact he did not.

(In 2016, he bragged about being present at a meeting in Putin's resort, and kept up the lie until exposed yesterday.)

I have always found Zijlstra a tool, but this time he has really outdone himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2018, 06:02:58 pm

Why even make this lie? It would be readily easy to verify its veracity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 12, 2018, 07:33:27 pm

Is meeting Putin a requisite quality you guys want in a foreign affairs minister? Elsewise it seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about, not knowing any other context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on February 12, 2018, 08:25:50 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 12, 2018, 07:33:27 pm

Is meeting Putin a requisite quality you guys want in a foreign affairs minister? Elsewise it seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about, not knowing any other context.

To be fair, the job of most foreign affairs ministers includes meeting with foreign heads of state, Putin included. :P But indeed, foreign contacts are a plus for foreign affairs, so long as they aren't too...err, close.  After all, most foreign affairs don't include foreign affairs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 12, 2018, 08:27:34 pm

Quote from: Culise on February 12, 2018, 08:25:50 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 12, 2018, 07:33:27 pm

Is meeting Putin a requisite quality you guys want in a foreign affairs minister? Elsewise it seems like a pretty stupid thing to lie about, not knowing any other context.

To be fair, the job of most foreign affairs ministers includes meeting with foreign heads of state, Putin included. :P

I'd guess it's more an issue of trust and the PMs confidence that the FM is doing their job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 08:43:19 am

Our lying minister hasn't been removed from office yet. If it doesn't happen this week, he is going to a planned meeting with Lavrov in Moscow.
Meanwhile, the Russian ministry of foreign affairs has stated that the Russian-Dutch bilateral relations are being "overshadowed by an unprecedented anti-Russia campaign in the Dutch media", without giving any concrete examples.
Furthermore they complained about the verdict byt the International Arbitrage Court in The Hague, which has convicted Russia to pay 5.4 million euros for the illegal seizing and chaining of the Greenpeace ship Arctic Sunrise, and the illegal detention of it's crew of 30, back in september 2013.

Not sure why they want to complain to our foreign minister about that. The court isn't Dutch, it's international, it's just based in The Hague.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 11:11:19 am

Okay, he resigned. Hopefully to replaced with someone more trustworthy.
Or even more hopefully, this will bring down our new government and give us new elections :P
But the latter is false hope.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 13, 2018, 11:14:12 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 11:11:19 am

Okay, he resigned. Hopefully to replaced with someone more trustworthy.
Or even more hopefully, this will bring down our new government and give us new elections :P
But the latter is false hope.

You reall want one more year of coalition talk?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 11:24:48 am

Yes, most definitly. The last thing our country needs right now is our current neo-con government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 13, 2018, 03:56:13 pm

Royal Navy detonates a 500kg present from the Germans on the river Thames (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43027472)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on February 13, 2018, 04:23:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 11:24:48 am

Yes, most definitly. The last thing our country needs right now is our current neo-con government.

I agree, there is also some hope that people start seeing a pattern in all the vvd ministers stepping down over various scandals, with some luck they would not end up as the largest party for once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 13, 2018, 06:25:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2018, 02:25:54 pm

We have a reverse situation ongoing in the Netherlands compared to the US.
Where in the US, people high up could be in trouble for lying that they did not have Russian contacts...
Over here, our minister of foreign affairs, Halbe Zijlstra, is in danger of being removed from office because he lied about having met Putin, while in fact he did not.

(In 2016, he bragged about being present at a meeting in Putin's resort, and kept up the lie until exposed yesterday.)

Well by now Zijlstra resigned and prime minister Rutte survived a vote of no confidence with 43 to 101.

Pretty sharp contrast to the USA where Trump just continues to lie his ass off and nobody cares.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 13, 2018, 06:27:30 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 13, 2018, 04:39:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 13, 2018, 03:56:13 pm

Royal Navy detonates a 500kg present from the Germans on the river Thames (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43027472)

You know, that reminded me, I need to visit London again someday. Last time I actually stopped there was years back, and that was the visit the Museum of Natural History (Big enough to last the day). Only time besides that I barely remember, beyond going on the London Eye.

Oh yeah London is the dankest museum place in the world. All those free museums and more looted shit than a freeboota's spehss hulk

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 13, 2018, 06:44:47 pm

All sewn together by Cleo's needle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2018, 08:18:42 pm

Reuters article on the Dutch minster resigning: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-russia/dutch-minister-to-face-parliament-over-false-putin-claim-idUSKBN1FX1FG

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2018, 06:32:11 am

Today, our parliament has voted in favour of officially recognizing the massacre of about 1.5 million Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as a genocide.
The government though, does not want to call it that yet, possibly out of fear for riots, like which happened when Germany recognized it as a genocide.
They will still call it ' the Armenian Issue', like they have been calling it for decades, to not offend the Turks.

The parliament however, will now try to force the government to send a minister to the official Armenian genocide memorial service, coming 24th of April in Jerevan.
A motion to this effect will be put to vote in parliament next week.
This is a very strong signal, both, because the government will be forced, if not by words, but by action to acknowledge it as a genocide, secondly because on previous memorials, the only countries sending a member of government were France, and eastern-orthodox countries like Serbia and Russia.

This comes at a time when Dutch-Turkish relations are already at an all time low. This will most certainly not improve that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2018, 09:05:49 am

Quote

The UK, US and Israel are among those that use different terminology to describe the events.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16352745

Disappointed the UK is up there tbh. Absolutely shameful display

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 16, 2018, 10:56:31 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 16, 2018, 06:32:11 am

Today, our parliament has voted in favour of officially recognizing the massacre of about 1.5 million Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as a genocide.
The government though, does not want to call it that yet, possibly out of fear for riots, like which happened when Germany recognized it as a genocide.

Remind me what the benefits of multiculturalism are again?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 16, 2018, 10:59:41 am

Shhhh, we do not question multiculturalism here. The lefties come to this place to spawn; it crawls with them ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 16, 2018, 11:17:45 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on February 16, 2018, 10:59:41 am

Shhhh, we do not question multiculturalism here. The lefties come to this place to spawn; it crawls with them ;)

lol......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 16, 2018, 11:46:33 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on February 16, 2018, 10:59:41 am

Shhhh, we do not question multiculturalism here. The lefties come to this place to spawn; it crawls with them ;)

Nah, don't worry, I think this forum has a fairly solid anti-immigrants and anti-muslims bend by now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 16, 2018, 12:27:01 pm

Th4DwArfY1 was making a joke you know, the smiley face indicated he wasn't being serious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on February 16, 2018, 12:32:05 pm

Quote from: Ispil on February 16, 2018, 12:23:02 pm

Compared to, say, Holocaust deniers, which Germany had to make into a crime due to its prevalence.

Huh, notice how — despite the fact that making it a crime probably only made it worse anyway — the German government officially recognised the Holocaust, and even made denying it a crime, and... didn't have fear of riots.

In fact, Holocaust denial was never very prevalent in Germany at all, and the laws were more about political maneuvering to suppress far-right political parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on February 16, 2018, 12:40:50 pm

It's funny that you say that because I actually am an open borders advocate XD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2018, 06:45:03 pm

Quote from: da_nang on February 16, 2018, 10:56:31 am

Remind me what the benefits of multiculturalism are again?

DOOD
FOOD
LMAO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 16, 2018, 06:48:19 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2018, 06:45:03 pm

Quote from: da_nang on February 16, 2018, 10:56:31 am

Remind me what the benefits of multiculturalism are again?

DOOD
FOOD
LMAO

Yes, you British like Dood Food.

lol, I dunno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2018, 06:56:51 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 16, 2018, 06:48:19 pm

Yes, you British like Dood Food.

lol, I dunno.

For context, the UK is renown for their stout, bitter and simple horsefeed food, and subsequently one of the major arguments from the Remain and Liberal campaigners from the UK has been "lmao u guys r gonna be poor eatin beans, aint got no French wine now," conflating immigration with the ability to transfer cooking recipes. It's usually the same gits who go to a gentrified restaurant to post pictures of their ""authentic"" Indian food that's been cooked by a Scotsman

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 16, 2018, 06:58:11 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 16, 2018, 12:40:50 pm

It's funny that you say that because I actually am an open borders advocate XD

I would likely be one as well. but between countries on an equal footing and can advocate of their citizens. Its a much to easy to exploit to the detriment of everyone by less then well meaning people otherwise. Rather like free trade. When one side in supposedly free trade is dominant it becomes more like free to exploit you without interference trade. This agreement does not mean I either like or forgive you for what you said the other day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 17, 2018, 03:55:53 am

Heh. The Dutch aren't ready for a Brexit. At least, their customs aren't.
It is calculated that we need to hire 1000 new people to work at the customs office / border checkpoints.
Currently there are 4600 people working there, so that's a 20% increase.
Training new customs officers takes 9 months, but the government is now considering offering a shortened variant of the training course to have enough customs officers ready when the Brexit pulls through.
The UK is the third largest trading partner of the Netherlands, so Brexit is going to hurt us.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 17, 2018, 05:23:00 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 16, 2018, 06:48:19 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 16, 2018, 06:45:03 pm

Quote from: da_nang on February 16, 2018, 10:56:31 am

Remind me what the benefits of multiculturalism are again?

DOOD
FOOD
LMAO

Yes, you British like Dood Food.

lol, I dunno.

Also, we're apparently unable to have any serious discussion about immigration, with the anti-camp unable to do anything but snarky comments without proper grammar, and the pro-camp unable to do anything but simmer in rage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 17, 2018, 08:35:03 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 17, 2018, 03:55:53 am

Heh. The Dutch aren't ready for a Brexit. At least, their customs aren't.
It is calculated that we need to hire 1000 new people to work at the customs office / border checkpoints.
Currently there are 4600 people working there, so that's a 20% increase.
Training new customs officers takes 9 months, but the government is now considering offering a shortened variant of the training course to have enough customs officers ready when the Brexit pulls through.
The UK is the third largest trading partner of the Netherlands, so Brexit is going to hurt us.

Imagine what it was like when you needed English wool to make your famous cloth but then that bastard Philip II embargoes them for pirating in the New World.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2018, 12:32:32 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 17, 2018, 05:23:00 am

Also, we're apparently unable to have any serious discussion about immigration, with the anti-camp unable to do anything but snarky comments without proper grammar, and the pro-camp unable to do anything but simmer in rage.

We've tried this before. I'd make proper arguments, all sourced and proper grammar, and all I'd receive in return was snark about how I was dumb, paranoid and probably white. It was personally disheartening for me to have people flat out deny that ISIS fighters were returning home, even when I showed evidence that this was their strategy and that fighters had already been caught on the Balkan border, it took the attacks to begin before anyone in that thread even conceded I was right. I've gotten more useful responses out of shitposts than I have with walls of text, which most of the time actually have the opposite effect on discussion.
I've also found that giving someone this big argument full of sources doesn't help them make a counter-argument, if they're insincere they'll just ignore it and argue against what it "seems" like instead of what it is, and if they're sincere the length of the argument is likely to just beat them into submission, killing debate outright either way. And in this case? How the bloody hell is it supposed to work that any of us are to keep making a counter-argument against an argument that was never made? In the absence of any arguments made I can only argue against what politicians have said are the reasons for this migration, not what any forumites believe - making it a monologue, not a dialogue. It leads to this assumed position that migration is inherently good, and the role for the pro-camp is not to actually make a case for it, but to just attack anyone who criticizes it as all manner of blasphemous things.

And you can't exactly complain that discussion is impossible if you expected to start a reasonable discussion on the basis that anyone who opposes unlimited migration hates immigrants and hates Muslims? No one's going to walk on poisoned ground, and certainly not if you've got more poison on standby. Whenever anyone's ready to make a reasonable case for whatever sense they believe lies in the European mindset to mass migration, there's not anything stopping them from posting and starting this discussion. Otherwise what would you rather me do? Explain my personal background, perspective, reasons for opposing an argument the other side never made, and then having my only response be called Donald Trump? It's wasting daylight hours in an experiment of frustration and futility. So dood, food lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 17, 2018, 12:36:58 pm

imgration is bud i no. i herd it on sozxial media.

((Yea, I didn't see Sheb's wee post there. Methinks the writer snarks too much.))

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 17, 2018, 03:38:54 pm

Yeah, I kinda miss those days sometimes LW. But in this case for exemple, it's more the fact that no debate is done from the get-go that annoy me. We've had martnuzz post one of his classical Volksrant link post. And it could lead to nice discussion about how Europeans countries ought to deal with the problesm pertaining to their Turkish minorities and Turkey's relation to it. There are plenty of issues there, from Kurdish-Turkish tensions, to issues with the genocide, to Turkey using the Diyanet (the Turkish religious ministry) to spy on Turks and ethnic Turks in Europe.

But we don't get any coherent thing, instead, we got the typical snarky referrence to "multicultularism" (frankly at this point I'd love to see the term banned. I've never seen a discussion that was made clearer by its use) followed by a bunch of other semi-joke snarks. All just short enough of factual that you can't really argue with them, because they're "only joking".

Of course, I can't ask everyone to sink hours in making wikipedia articles masquerading as bay12 posts, but I would love to at least have proper statements one can argue with in good faith rather than half baked memes meant to show your in-group you belong.

P.S I'm not sure where you got "anyone who opposes unlimited migration hates immigrants and hates Muslims" from my post, but for the record, I don't think that's the case.

Edit:

Vaguely related: Turkey offer 214.000 euros (http://www.lalibre.be/debats/opinions/erdogan-met-a-prix-la-tete-du-belge-bahar-kimyongur-que-fait-l-europe-opinion-5a83fd53cd70fdabba00f099) for anyone as reward for anyone who could provide information to "dispose of" Bahar Kimyongur, a Belgian activist of Turkish-Syrian parents. Bahar, a journalist has been arrested several time in Belgium, the Netherlands and Spain after Turkey sent out an interpol notce for him, but in all cases was not extradited after the various judges declared the charges as groundless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2018, 04:17:49 pm

Well for starters it'd probably be a poor life choice to see Germans in Europe as a homogeneous entity loyal to Erdogan, not least to say it'd be cruel, and Europe isn't just failing Turkish Germans it's failing all of the people it's invited. Not sure if there exists any political will to deal with anything in any way, just look at the Kurdish and Turkish clashes in Germany. There's what, 400k Germans who voted to give Erdogan more power? Find out how Germany failed all of those Germans. Or just cozy up to Erdogan some more and attack Hungary for having borders? European strategy has odd priorities. And as if there's anything EU people could do to stop Turkish agents, when they can't stop Russian agents, when they fund for the return of IS fighters, when it seems their priority is knocking on the doors of twitter troglodytes and not on criminals on their streets. Is a pro-Erdogan state going to allocate resources against its agents if it even had the capabilities? Not likely imo.

P.S. The statement on the forum going round an anti-immigrant, anti-muslim bend

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 21, 2018, 01:12:46 pm

Polish internauts are outraged by video authored by the Ruderman Family Foundation saying that the USA should end relations with Poland over Polish involvement in the Holocaust.

And that is all I can write without snark. See the video for yourself, I laughed my ass off. Don't know which is funnier, the underinformed and deceitful video or the salty bois venting their rage in the comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chzwlm79a-Y

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on February 21, 2018, 01:23:15 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on February 21, 2018, 01:12:46 pm

Polish internauts are outraged by video authored by the Ruderman Family Foundation saying that the USA should end relations with Poland over Polish involvement in the Holocaust.

It's not about Polish involvment in the Holocaust, it's about the recent law that makes it illegal to "attribute the crime of Nazi germany to the Polish nation".

Personnaly I'm not sure which is funnier, but I definitely found the comment cringier ("This kind of shit is what caused the first Holocaust!") but then they're YouTube comments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 21, 2018, 01:24:44 pm

i cant believe the EU has neo-nazi poland in it

merkel ban when

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 21, 2018, 02:57:59 pm

Quote from: Sheb on February 21, 2018, 01:23:15 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on February 21, 2018, 01:12:46 pm

Polish internauts are outraged by video authored by the Ruderman Family Foundation saying that the USA should end relations with Poland over Polish involvement in the Holocaust.

It's not about Polish involvment in the Holocaust, it's about the recent law that makes it illegal to "attribute the crime of Nazi germany to the Polish nation".

Personnaly I'm not sure which is funnier, but I definitely found the comment cringier ("This kind of shit is what caused the first Holocaust!") but then they're YouTube comments.

You're entirely correct. I guess I shouldn't write a comment whilst looking for my sides.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 21, 2018, 05:27:50 pm

Poland is becoming more and more of an embarrasment for the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 22, 2018, 08:13:45 am

Okay, now that I've got the text of the law on hand it is clear to see that it is not unreasonable - it is stated that it isn't illegal to attribute to Poland or the Polish people crimes committed by the Third Reich IF what you claim is factual/is part of an academic pursuit/is part of an artistic pursuit/isn't a pulbic statement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on February 22, 2018, 09:02:50 am

Poland is becoming more and more like Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2018, 06:38:36 am

Morocco withdrew it's ambassador from the Netherlands, after a Dutch court ruled that the Dutch-Moroccan Said C. should not be extradited to Morocco, because of the risk of an unfair trial and torture.

Said C. is standing trial in the Netherlands for drug trafficking, but is also wanted by the Moroccan government for drug trade and bribery.
Said C. is also a former member of Moroccan parliament, and one of the founders of the 18 september movement, which strives for independence of the Rif provinces.
Said C. has always claimed the cases against him are political, and after investigation, the Dutch judge concluded that that is likely true, and statements made by witnesses against him were forced by torture.

So now we have no embassies or formal diplomatic contact with both Morocco and Turkey, the two countries from which our two largest migrant populatiopns originate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 23, 2018, 02:15:48 pm

The year is 2031. The distant future. The Netherlands is now the only country in the world with no diplomatic relations, following the closing of the Canadian embassy when a Dutch court ruled that maple syrup supplies were maintained through torture of minority tree species.

The streets are free of cars, now illegal, freeing the grand bike fleets to travel without limit. Pedestrians are run down on a daily basis, narrow tire marks becoming a fashionable clothes pattern. If you watch carefully, you may see them jumping between buildings, but they're just on they're way to drink exactly one liter of Grolsch during lunch break before returning to their jobs as Surgeon-Baristas. But suddenly! A man with a blade attacks one of the peaceful travelers! The bleeding sot is immediately seized by Medicines Evaluation Board PeaceDrones and taken to the walking hospital mecha for treatment and prosecution for inciting violence against themselves. The first is approached by police officers, fully contained in their powered armored suits and wielding combination heavy railgun/miniaturized non-nuclear launchers. They question him briefly, and confiscate the blade, but do not arrest him as assault was decriminalized as a form of spiritual self-harm by Dutch courts in 2024. They all part ways, neon shirts rippling in the wind.

The man later sues for the confiscation of the blade and emotional trauma from having to look at police. He is awarded twenty million euros in damages and the police officers are exiled to the German Quarantine Zone for their violent and inhumane mindset.

The Dutch judge leans back in his seat, repeatedly lighting and dragging on marijuana cigarettes as his court officer confiscates them and throws them into the canal. It was a good day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strife26 on February 23, 2018, 05:19:55 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on February 22, 2018, 08:13:45 am

Okay, now that I've got the text of the law on hand it is clear to see that it is not unreasonable - it is stated that it isn't illegal to attribute to Poland or the Polish people crimes committed by the Third Reich IF what you claim is factual/is part of an academic pursuit/is part of an artistic pursuit/isn't a pulbic statement.

It's not illegal as long as the judiciary (now being rebuilt by the populist government) doesn't decide to hammer you for it. Definitely not the kind of security I'd trust.

Friggin Polish martyrdom complex doesn't mesh well with reality, unfortunately.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 23, 2018, 08:22:55 pm

Bearing in mind that you have Amber “I don’t need to understand it to legislate it” Rudd as Home Secretary and the Tories in power, who are so out of touch with the common person they think you can feed a family on £10 a week. Oh alright some councillor in Bath said that in a now-deleted tweet.

It’s unsurprising, and it’s sad that it is so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 24, 2018, 06:02:04 am

Quote from: Strife26 on February 23, 2018, 05:19:55 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on February 22, 2018, 08:13:45 am

Okay, now that I've got the text of the law on hand it is clear to see that it is not unreasonable - it is stated that it isn't illegal to attribute to Poland or the Polish people crimes committed by the Third Reich IF what you claim is factual/is part of an academic pursuit/is part of an artistic pursuit/isn't a pulbic statement.

It's not illegal as long as the judiciary (now being rebuilt by the populist government) doesn't decide to hammer you for it. Definitely not the kind of security I'd trust.

Friggin Polish martyrdom complex doesn't mesh well with reality, unfortunately.

SUre, but the problem doesn't lie in the law, but in the authoritarian government that will abuse it, and if you're outraged at our overlords then you're years late, bub. Too late at this point, things won't go back to what they once were that easily anymore. You see, at this point there aren't any parties that are capable to get enough support to take control, meaning that the boiis ruling poland will stay for quite a long time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 24, 2018, 10:21:27 am

If the law can be easily abused then the problem does lie with the law.  "You can say anything you want as long as it doesnt annoy us" goes against both the letter and the spirit of freedom of expression

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 24, 2018, 10:29:04 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 24, 2018, 10:21:27 am

If the law can be easily abused then the problem does lie with the law.  "You can say anything you want as long as it doesnt annoy us" goes against both the letter and the spirit of freedom of expression

And the law is only as good as it's enforcement, so, it goes both ways really since the law doesn't enforce itself (unless maybe you've got police androids with sapient AI running around), people enforce it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2018, 06:44:27 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 23, 2018, 07:54:37 pm

So, UK government's still forging ahead with it's "We can blanket age-restrict any site so long as we think it may have porn on it" idea.

Any thoughts on this? As it stands, I think it's about as smart as using laptop bags as food, and unauthoritarian as Trump, given it's not just porn sites exclusively.

People are missing the true danger behind it while focusing on the smaller, ridiculous details. It's a blatant attempt to gain direct control over internet data consumption without having to rely on private sector allies, it's a moral cause to wave as a standard to command others. The comparison with Trump is also poor; if Snowden is anything to go by, the US is still catching up to the UK when it comes to information control and subtle authoritarianism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 25, 2018, 08:41:20 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 25, 2018, 07:32:56 pm

Hence why I specifically named Trump. Guy's authoritarian through and through, just incompetent and stuck within a democratic framework he has no idea how to abuse.

Trump does not seem authoritarian to me. He does not have the crushing power of Xi Jinping for example, nor does he seem incapable of abusing the democratic framework he's in. Very much the contrary - he's been abnormally successful with very little political or financial backing. He is still just playing the role of the tough executive who tells people on TV that they're fired. Trump's success comes from his masterful control of branding and image, which in a political system ruled by style over substance, he thrives in. You can see many of the lessons he learned in managing the image of villains, heroes and winners from his time in World Wrestling Entertainment or The Apprentice, reapplied to his Presidential campaign to great success, as many of his opponents prepare to debate him but end up in a wrestling opera instead. The mistake is in thinking the simplified mass appeal is a sign of degenerate stupidity; all I'll say is, the people writing the Daily Mail are a clever bunch, but you'd never know that by reading what they write. And at least there is more dignity in being defeated by a clownish savant, than in being defeated by a clownish brickhead.

Quote from: greatorder on February 25, 2018, 07:32:56 pm

Yeah, the law is very worrying. Someone on the UKpolitics subreddit pointed out that it seems to have been made specifically so it's hard to oppose. You oppose it, and the supporters will simply start calling you some sort of perverted individual that wants children to be able to see porn, even though that seems to be a very secondary thing the law's designed for.

Which is a common theme with this kinda stuff when they pushed it through on anti-pedo or anti-terror grounds. Thing is they can just keep pushing it through year after year, every time they get shut down they get enough leeway to continue consolidating power. The real problem is that we don't have any political representation for free flow of information, the same way other European countries like Sweden have pirate parties whose purpose is exactly that. Without any Swedish pirate MPs of our own to push back, all these efforts will continually chip away at opposition. Well, I don't think a British pirate party could succeed in our system, but we could try to get Labour and Conservative pirates elected, and so turn the major parties into pirates

Quote from: greatorder on February 25, 2018, 07:32:56 pm

As it is, I've definitely got "moving out of the country" as an option. If there's a job abroad after I leave uni, I'm not going to regret leaving this increasingly 1984-esque island behind.

Increasingly? The Americans were right, we have been a rainy socialist island for a long time. Still, it is home, and I am of the opinion that if you can't live in home, there's not much point to fleeing when you could be helping. That said you definitely shouldn't regret pursuing careers abroad, that's just a wise life choice in this graduate unfriendly economy ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 26, 2018, 10:49:42 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdhQzXHYLZ4

Italy why? WTF

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 27, 2018, 04:35:04 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on February 26, 2018, 10:49:42 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdhQzXHYLZ4

Italy why? WTF

What in particular are you wtf’ng at?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on February 27, 2018, 06:57:15 am

Europe is undergoing what was always going to happen once enough people forgot what Hitler did. Ireland is no worse off, we're stuck between two centre right political parties who hate each other despite basically having the same ideas and motivations for long winded historical reasons, and between that, they forget that Ireland actually has anyone else in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 27, 2018, 09:47:35 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 27, 2018, 04:35:04 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on February 26, 2018, 10:49:42 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdhQzXHYLZ4

Italy why? WTF

What in particular are you wtf’ng at?

They might end up bringing president insane misogynistic creep back. And he would actually be one of the better candidates.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2018, 06:32:25 pm

Quote from: greatorder on February 26, 2018, 07:12:58 pm

Thing is, Trump's actually notching quite a few defeats and doing things like paying no heed to laws that he really ought to sign. IIRC he should have signed the Russian sanctions since it passed with more than enough votes to override the presidential veto, but in spite of that he didn't. I think. I'm kind of hazy on British political structures, so foreign ones I'm not that great at. I still think he's authoritarian, just not in the usual way. He's used to a business environment where he can basically bully things through, but now he's president he's not a fish out of water, he's a fish that was quite happy with his water, even if he wasn't doing a great job of it, then suddenly found himself floating in the air with a pit beneath him that may contain water or it may contain lava, and nobody's too sure which it is but they're acting as if they are and this metaphor has run out. Anyway, guy's used to getting things his own way and is being authoritarian because he's no longer allowed to do that and can't, so he's basically, by sheer force of will or ignorance, bending it all.

I don't think that's authoritarian, that's just being a direct leader. Hands-off leaders must likewise have their workers work as directed, but they leave that to the managers to enforce ;D
Basically I draw a difference between authoritative and authoritarian. It's actually pretty hard for any American leader to be authoritarian, because a great deal of the branches of US government, civil, military and intelligence, all run around doing their own thing and setting their own agendas. Contrast this with Xi Jinping, who has both overall command over every branch of government, and exercises actual control over every branch of government, directing all goals and targets under close supervision of his agents. People like Bannon, Carson, Pence and Mattis you can't see Trump ordering around for example. I actually disagree with the assessment of his competency in his work environments, I think he was pretty mediocre in the business environment, but has thrived in American politics. Very much a fish returning to water; force of will alone does not achieve anything, because Trump went against lots of people with strong forces of will too. It's the mistake in believing that Trump is a retard who defeated lots of clever people because he was too stupid to fail, when I would argue it's when clever people get arrogant, that they make success impossible. Just look at when the DNC had Clinton focus on swing states while Trump went off campaigning in areas like Pennsylvania that hadn't voted Republican since 1988. Everyone thought this was the action of a political rookie, an absolute moron, and he not only won the swing states, he flipped safe Democrat states. Why? Well for starters it's worth noting how honest fools are smarter than dishonest boffins; I always rather like the anecdote of the oracle telling Socrates he was the smartest person in Hellas, because he was the only to accept he wasn't that smart. And of course the other thing is that when it comes to gauging public sentiments, the guy's been touring the USA for years and before that, working well in the entertainment industry - where I think his true value comes not in business, but in branding. All sorts of stuff which makes for a potent President Mt. Dew III

Quote from: greatorder on February 26, 2018, 07:12:58 pm

...should we form a Pirate party ourselves for shits and giggles?

I mean, be more British to call ourselves the privateer party, actually.

Sir Francis Drake appreciation party

Quote from: greatorder on February 26, 2018, 07:12:58 pm

And the problem with staying and helping is... well, how? I know I can vote, that's standard, and I do go out and vote, but the problem is that there's no major party (See: The two major parties) willing to properly represent my views. Closest is Labour, and they're still a decent distance away. Wouldn't have this issue with proportional representation, but there's no way in hell that'll happen unless the Lib Dems or someone somehow gain a huge amount of massively temporary seats and try to implement reform before the whole thing collapses around them so as to give themselves a better chance in the future. Or massive public outcry, which seems unlikely.

It's better to go abroad, work and then go into politics with real life experience than join the absolute slaughterfest that is current UK politics. As far as I can tell only the libdems aren't cannibilizing themselves right now, and that's because everyone in the libdem has fallen asleep

Also what's in the youtube video? It's blocked for some reason for me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 27, 2018, 07:03:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2018, 06:32:25 pm

Also what's in the youtube video? It's blocked for some reason for me

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, he was talking about various Italian politics stuff in relation to the election they're having there soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2018, 07:06:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 27, 2018, 07:03:16 pm

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, he was talking about various Italian politics stuff in relation to the election they're having there soon.

Tbh I don't regret it being blocked then, John Oliver is one of the few people worse than Piers Morgan. At least the current year man meme is pretty spicy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on February 27, 2018, 07:23:06 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2018, 07:06:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 27, 2018, 07:03:16 pm

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, he was talking about various Italian politics stuff in relation to the election they're having there soon.

Tbh I don't regret it being blocked then, John Oliver is one of the few people worse than Piers Morgan. At least the current year man meme is pretty spicy

I don't know that much about Piers Morgan, but yeah, John Oliver's never impressed me that much. His humour always felt a bit too attack-addish, too explicitly political, to be really funny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 01, 2018, 03:46:52 am

The Netherlands has a new prince, and the Spanish throne a new claimant to succession: Hugo Klynstra, the son of Brigitte Klynstra, and Spanish prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme, son of Carlos Hugo de Bourbon de Parme (died 2010) and princess Irene of Oranje-Nassau.
For the past few years he has been battling in court, to have his name changed, from Hugo Klynstra to His Royal Highness Prince Carlos Hugo Roderick Sybren de Bourbon de Parme.

Now the court ruled that this is indeed his birthright, since even though his father never married his mother, he did recognize and accept paternity.
He will have no claim to the Dutch throne, but his recognition as nobility does make him the head of the family de Bourbon de Parma, and theoretically does give him a claim to the Spanish throne, through his grandfather's succession line, which he has already made. He even went so far to travel to Spain after baptizing his newborn child in Italy, to show the child to Spain as a new crown prince.

Fun fact: he is a direct descendant of Louis XIV, the sun king of France.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 01, 2018, 05:44:31 am

Holy shit, so we get ANOTHER Carlist pretender? I thought they all died out. As if the vanilla Bourbons weren't bad enough

TBH its too bad that Napoleon lost the war and these assholes were restored.

By the way the last two crown-holders were notorious womanizers and all too fond of escorts. Odds are there are dozend of people like this Klinimax guy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 01, 2018, 06:47:20 am

I support restoration of the Eneko line to the throne of Greater Navarrespaña through their long lost heir Eneko Vasco Ainhoa Eneko.

That is to say, ChairmanPoo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 01, 2018, 06:59:06 am

I second this proposal, and move that it be forwarded immediately unto the proper authorities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 01, 2018, 08:11:16 am

Count Poo. Lord Poo. Duke Poo. All the poos.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 01, 2018, 10:06:02 am

I'm glad we don't have to deal with that succession sillyness with royals over here. :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 01, 2018, 10:24:20 am

"Which Kennedy will the democrats send up for president campaign this year?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 01, 2018, 10:39:44 am

Yeah, yeah, I know we have our version of political dynasties and near-royalty, but it's not the same thing as you're dealing with in Europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2018, 10:54:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 01, 2018, 10:39:44 am

Yeah, yeah, I know we have our version of political dynasties and near-royalty, but it's not the same thing as you're dealing with in Europe.

Yeah your one is more boring. Like Venetian merchant dynasties but with none of the good art

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 01, 2018, 12:59:33 pm

Plus, your ones are elected leaders with much more vested power. At least we separate dynasty and power :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2018, 01:12:35 pm

Speaking of royal news, assassination plot to kill Queen in 81 by kiwi gunman made public (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43239736)

He didn't have a motive beyond being a total fuckin edgelord who chopped sparrows heads off because he could (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11973180)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 01, 2018, 01:22:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2018, 01:12:35 pm

He didn't have a motive beyond being a total fuckin edgelord who chopped sparrows heads off because he could (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11973180)

Que?

Quote

In his memoirs Christopher Lewis claimed he never intended to assassinate the Queen, but merely to "scare her" into seeing the issues he believed were prevalent in New Zealand society.

This fits with his rifle being insufficient for the range of the shot.

Quote

Lewis and some of his friends had formed a breakaway group of the National Independent Guerrilla Army, to challenge those in power.

Normally I love learning about obscure terrorist groups, but I can't find anything on this one - neither the splinter nor the parent.

Quote

Eight years later, in 1995, Lewis was secretly exiled to Great Barrier Island in the Hauraki Gulf because of police fears for the Queen's safety during the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Auckland.

What the fuck? New Zealand, are you actually a secret police state? First you're covering up assassinations that might not be assassinations for PR, now you're secretly stranding people on islands?

Quote

Till his death Lewis blamed Burns - whom he called Jimmy the Weasel - the police informant who helped pin the murder charge on Lewis.

A coroner's inquest, and a reinvestigation of the Furlan case failed to clear Lewis of the murder or find any evidence to pin it on Burns, who was later found guilty of the murder of young mum Joanne McCarthy, whose killing was strikingly similar to Furlan's.

Hmm

Quote

The Christchurch woman, who did not want to be named, said doctors couldn't pin down what was wrong with him as his behaviour didn't match any psychiatric condition.

She described her son as an introvert, she said he resented his stepfather and by 13 or 14 his hormones had "gone mad" and she couldn't control him.

HMM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2018, 01:31:48 pm

You think this coverup is a coverup of some kiwi mkultra shit? Or that the government were secretly Republicans?

Quote

The police informant who gave up Lewis' name was Travis Burns. Police gave him a new identity and a payout in exchange for the information and settled him into a safe house in Orewa.

I always think it's a massive dick move when news people tell everyone where the safe house of high risk targets are

Ok, looking further into the edgelord exile island I found this:

The four boys hadn't got far before being recaptured: no one escaped from Whakapakari.  (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11508241)
Kiwis confirmed for best village in the country (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 01, 2018, 01:40:38 pm

Edit:
Actually read the article, there are no jokes now. That's honestly pretty messed up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 02, 2018, 06:03:16 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 01, 2018, 01:22:47 pm

Quote

Lewis and some of his friends had formed a breakaway group of the National Independent Guerrilla Army, to challenge those in power.

Normally I love learning about obscure terrorist groups, but I can't find anything on this one - neither the splinter nor the parent.

They really called it the NIGA?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 02, 2018, 06:10:34 am

I'm not sure it even existed at this point, much less was unfortunately named.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 02, 2018, 06:46:04 am

We are all Negan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2018, 12:44:00 pm

EU Leaders throw spicy meatballs at the USA regarding future trade war, strongly urge US President to reconsider life choices. (https://euobserver.com/economic/141176) I wonder if the Germans will finally succeed in replacing the US dollar as the world reserve currency sometime soon. EU lobbyists fear that Chinese steel would flood and obliterate European steel industry in response to the US market closing its rectum, and so would rather maintain status quo. This is all rather hilarious if you consider how salty China is at the EU placing protectionist measures against Chinese steel (https://www.politico.eu/article/opinion-china-steel-trade-no-winners-in-europe-war-against-chinese-steel-market-anti-dumping-imports/), for the EU to then get salty about US protectionism. Free trade when it suits me, protectionism when it suits me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2018, 01:29:23 pm

Plus other countries don't particularily like it when we rock the status quo boat, like how some in the EU were grumbling about some parts of the tax bil related to corporations. Though this is way more than merely rocking the boat.

I wonder if they'll wait until Trump actually implements it before putting in their countermeasures or do it before, given how mercurial Trump is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 02, 2018, 01:58:02 pm

Dutch Tata Steel is sending every lobbyist they can find to the minister of foreign affairs and the US embassy, to make Trump reconsider.
A lot of US companies, like Steel Warehouse, supplier of Caterpillar (which was very helpful in promoting Dutch steel, with their slogan "Ship in Dutch steel only"), heavily depend on Tata Steel's custom width and thickness steel, which isn't made in the US at all. And Tata steel most definitly isn't just 'dumping' steel on the US market. They don't sell under cost price, in fact, the US pays pretty well for the steel, profit margins being higher than with internal EU trade. Worth half a billion per year.
Tariffs wll ruin those US business.
Tata Steel director  Theo Henrar: "We, too, are against the dumping of steel. We also urged the world trade partners to put a stop to China's practice of dumping steel. We think the US should act against that. But measures like that have to be executed precisely, and not just crack down on every and all trade. Now they want to effect Section 223, where, under the guise of national security, a general trade measure is forced on us. That has to be prevented.
If not, countermeasures from our side cannot be prevented. But that is in no one's interest. Then everyone will get, as you say in the US, 'an egg in their face'. I hope the Americans will still see reason. Like, take measures against countries that do actually do dumping, and make exceptions for countries that just trade normally."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2018, 02:10:25 pm

The saying is 'egg on your/their face', not in, though that could easily be a typo rather than mistranslation, or that is quoted word for word.

Trump is just going to double down on it and he somehow thinks winning trade wars is easy and trade wars are good. Which tells you pretty much everything about his attitude towards trade wars.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2018, 11:28:44 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 02, 2018, 12:44:00 pm

This is all rather hilarious if you consider how salty China is at the EU placing protectionist measures against Chinese steel (https://www.politico.eu/article/opinion-china-steel-trade-no-winners-in-europe-war-against-chinese-steel-market-anti-dumping-imports/), for the EU to then get salty about US protectionism. Free trade when it suits me, protectionism when it suits me

Well, the thing is everybody agree that the problem is China's overcapacity in steel, fueled by cheap state credit and land, that has started to flood the international market, but the US import very little Chinese steel already. US tariffs are going to stop import from Canada and the EU. Basically, the EUposition is "Free trade with people who don't dump steel on our market", which is actually consistent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2018, 12:52:21 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2018, 11:28:44 am

Well, the thing is everybody agree that the problem is China's overcapacity in steel, fueled by cheap state credit and land, that has started to flood the international market, but the US import very little Chinese steel already. US tariffs are going to stop import from Canada and the EU. Basically, the EUposition is "Free trade with people who don't dump steel on our market", which is actually consistent.

So that bit where the German steel lobbyist said the EU was going to be flooded with foreign steel...?

Quote

But VW Stahl, the German steel lobby, said Trump's move threatened to flood the EU market with foreign steel when those countries diverted exports from the US.

"If the EU does not act, our steel industry will pay the bill for protectionism in the US. Europe is threatened by trade diversion by a new steel spill, in a situation where the import crisis in the EU market is far from over," VW Stahl chief Hans Juergen Kerkhoff said, referring to global overcapacity in the sector.

EU position is consistent: USA steel industry can collapse under the weight of foreign steehl rehn, European steel industry cannot. USA must pay the price of protecting EU steel, instead of directing foreign steel to Europe. The codex astartes does not approve of this maneuvre

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 03, 2018, 01:07:07 pm

Not sure what's your point behind the memes. Of course the EU's steel sector is going to suffer somewhat from the US tariffs...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2018, 01:12:22 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 03, 2018, 01:07:07 pm

Not sure what's your point behind the memes. Of course the EU's steel sector is going to suffer somewhat from the US tariffs...

Mostly just memes tbh, I don't seriously fault the EU for looking out for the EU, that'd just be silly. Add that to how the EU produces more steel than the USA, higher quality steel than the USA, causes less ecological damage than the USA (not that hard tbh) and has less flexibility in solving an international issue, for what is to the USA a national issue, the situation the USA and EU face in the face of unlimited Chinese steel is similar but not the same. On this level the EU is being reasonable, on a superficial level, it's open for terrible jokes in the terrible joking thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on March 03, 2018, 01:50:20 pm

You know that both US and EU already have tariffs for Chinese steel, right? (e.g. EU (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/07/eu-slaps-steep-tariffs-on-cheap-chinese-steel/), US (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180))

Just read in the news today* that when the tariffs were introduced, third parties like Vietnam suddenly started importing ten times more steel, i.e. China is circumventing the tariffs.

*It was in Finnish, so I'm not going to dig it up. (and I don't feel like googling for "China Steel Tariff" to search for English sources)

The Trump tariffs try to block this circumvention by tariffing steel from all countries. This will result in less steel going to the US, and more to the EU, i.e. US's protectionist tariffs flood EU market with Chinese steel that's gotten a new paint job in Vietnam (as well as a whole bunch of other steel).

Btw, reading that salty Chinese article was a bit weird before I realized it's an opinion by PRC's EU guy and that Politico hasn't been bought by PRC's propaganda department :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 03, 2018, 07:21:03 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on March 03, 2018, 01:50:20 pm

Btw, reading that salty Chinese article was a bit weird before I realized it's an opinion by PRC's EU guy and that Politico hasn't been bought by PRC's propaganda department :P

yet ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 05, 2018, 03:06:46 am

So the italian election has resulted in a hung parliament (which is not unusual in itself). What is unusual is that with the tanking of Forza Italia the far right Lega Nord have become the de facto leaders of the right wing coalition, and the major party in the left  is the Five Star movement  (aka kind of like Syritza and Podemos) with the tanking of the PD. Coalitions between FI and the PD wouldbt be able to form a goverment. Coalitions between LN and M5S are.. unlikely.

we'll see what happens, I guess. I'm betting on a repeat election soonish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on March 05, 2018, 03:29:52 am

Mostly accurate, but I wouldn't say that M5S is in the left. They have opinions ranging all across the spectrum and in many things they are close to LN actually. But they aren't centrists either. It may be better described as a realignment on a third axis, leaving the left as an outsider.

It is important to note that the vote is very geographically split: the south voted M5S, while the north voted the right wing coalition (with a few small red spots)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 05, 2018, 03:49:08 am

They're either schizophrenic or opportunistic shapeshifters depending on who you ask. I understand the south mostly votes for them because of their Citizen's Income scheme, and because they promise to do something about the massive waves of illegal immigrants like the right coalition but without being Euro-skeptic. Although like most of their other positions, who knows how long that'll last.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on March 05, 2018, 03:51:01 am

They are Euro-skeptics, although they became a bit more moderate on that in the recent period.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on March 05, 2018, 03:56:59 am

Precisely. There is a major difference in degree. The right coalition seems to want to leave the EU ASAP and even have plans to introduce an interim "currency" of tradeable government bonds (or something like that anyway, they're called minibots) in case ASAP isn't fast enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on March 05, 2018, 04:03:19 am

LN wants that, but the right wing coalition includes Berlusconi's party, with nearly 15% of the overall vote (less than LN, but still very relevant) , which is pro-europe and doesn't want to leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 05, 2018, 05:50:41 am

IIRC both LN and M5S dropped a good chunk of their anti EU rhetoric after Le Pen  failed against Macron. Berlusconi was anti EU at the beginning as well but did same.

Re Transversal movements: after seeing what Podemos and Syritza did (nothing meaningful, and a failed bluff that made everything worse, respectively), I'm fairly skeptical of  them. Seem to be as full of hot air as right wing populists.

Not that traditional parties are any better. THEIR failure is why these windbags are succeeding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 05, 2018, 08:21:41 am

Some angry Duch taxi drivers called upon their colleagues in a private Telegram channel with 268 anonymous users, to attack the Uber headquarters in Amsterdam, and to bring bricks, fireworks and molotovs.
The police is trying to find out who is behind the incitement.

Telegram took the channel offline after Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad uncovered the plot this morning.
A Volkskrant contact said 5 young lads are behind the initiative, and their intention was to put Uber in bad publicity, for unfair competition with real taxi drivers.

Looks like the only thing they accomplished is put themselves in a bad daylight. Dutch general public opinion isn't very fond of threats with molotov cocktails.

Still, Uber is indeed bad news for official taxi drivers. It is unfair competetion, considering official taxis need expensive extra chauffeur diplomas and expensive city taxi licenses which aren't required for Uber.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 05, 2018, 04:06:08 pm

Heh, scary. In 11 out of 25 'security regions' our country is divided into for calamity response reasons, it was quiet this monday at noon.

Scary, because every first monday at noon, te air raid sirens are supposed to go off for a test run.
Ever since the system was installed in the early Cold War days, it has never failed once.

Well maybe every once in a while a single siren fails and needs replacing, but nearly half of all 4000 sirens nationwide failing, never happened.

The ministry of Justice and Safety is investigating how this could have happened.

Silly system it is. Every nation in the world by now knows that if you ever want to invade or bomb the Netherlands, you do that on the first monday of the month at noon, no one will think the air raid sirens are for real.
I do wonder how many people called emergency services to say our nation is under attack, because there were no sirens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 05, 2018, 05:11:05 pm

A former Russian spy that defected to the UK is in hospital in critical condition, after he was poisoned with an unknown substance in Salisbury.
Police has not revealed the man's identity, but according to British media it is 66-year old Sergej Skripal.
A 33-year old woman that was with him is also in critical condition.

The pair was found at a bench in a mall in Salisbury. An eyewitness says that "the woman was leaning on the man, as if she had fainted, and the man was looking at the sky making weird hand gestures. It looked like they were on something very strong".
According to the Guardian they have been posioned with fentanyl, a strong opoid, but this has not been confirmed.

The case brings back memories from the Litvinenko case. Alexander Litvinenko was murdered in 2006 in London, when two Russian agents poisoned his tea with the radioactive element polonium. Litvenenko died six weeks later of radiation sickness. It is assumed the murder was approved by Putin, of whom Litvenenko was an outspoken critic. **

Sergej Skripal is a former colonel that worked for the GRU and the Russian ministry of foreign affairs. In 2006 he was convicted to 13 years in prison for providing MI6 with the names of Russian spies operating in the UK. He had been recruited by MI6 in 1995.

In 2010, he was released in a Cold-War style spy exchange between Russia and the US, at Vienna Airport. Four spies were exchanged by Putin in exchange for 10 Russian sleeper cell agents from the US.
The 10 agents were welcomed home in Moscow personally by Putin, who sang patriottic songs with them.

EDIT: **) Apparently you can get away with a nuclear attack on NATO soil if it's precise enough /s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 05:48:09 am

The Netherlands, Danmark, Sweden, Finland, Letland, Estland, Ireland, and Latvia have formed an alliance inside the EU, to counteract further transfer of power from national states to Brussels.
They believe it's nescessary to form a bloc and raise their voice, to put a break on Germany and France's ambitions to further integrate the EU nations.

They have made a list of 6 demands, including that all EU nations will keep themselves to the EU budget rules, and that there will be no new emergency shock fund that acts as a buffer for countries that can't make the 3%.
They also want a brake on the transfer of power to Brussels. They only want to see small, modest steps that make the Union stronger, and want to restrict big steps to the expansion of the internal market and free trade.

This did not come as a surprise to Brussels. The 8 nations have been pleading for less integration and less centralisation for months now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 06, 2018, 05:57:04 am

An EU within the EU? Madness!

Also good on them, now to see if Germany actually listens. If not they can always do a brexit and form their own EU, with hookers and blackjack!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 06, 2018, 07:38:01 am

The Eastern European Union shall rise.


btw, why do they want the "no emergency fund" demand? I cant see why a country would want that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 06, 2018, 07:52:02 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 06, 2018, 07:38:01 am

The Eastern European Union shall rise.


btw, why do they want the "no emergency fund" demand? I cant see why a country would want that

Those are mostly contributor countries. So when a country like Greece need a EU bail-out, they're mostly on the hook.

Did they say anything about defence integration? I would have thought that for the Balts at least that would have been a welcome improvement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 08:10:06 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 06, 2018, 07:38:01 am

The Eastern European Union shall rise.


btw, why do they want the "no emergency fund" demand? I cant see why a country would want that

Because the populists will slaughter them in elections if they don't say that. Populists don't want to bail out Greece again with 'their money'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 06, 2018, 08:38:34 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 06, 2018, 07:38:01 am

The Eastern European Union shall rise.


btw, why do they want the "no emergency fund" demand? I cant see why a country would want that

The main cause of the economic crisises in Europe is Germany putting their own economy over that of the other EU members'. You see, through some economical nonsense I only half remember, the shared Euro currency but separate economies mean that when Germany makes a surplus, it causes deficits in her fellow Euro-users. Because of this, the countries involved entered an agreement that, to make sure that the other economies did not crash, Germany had to restrict her surplus to a certain percentage. Germany then proceeded to completely ignore this agreement, ran the other economies into the ground, and then pretended to be all surprised when shit exploded.

Since then Germany have continued to fuck the crashed states over in every way they can while constantly repeating that "EU solidarity means that everybody else have to help pay for the mess we caused for our own profit". Unsurprisingly, the rest of the EU is not amused, and are worried that any kind of "emergency fund" is just a way to make the rest of the EU foot the bill while Germany continues to bolster her own economy through said economic practices which causes the deficits to begin with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 06, 2018, 02:33:02 pm

I am interested. Link to the mechanics of this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 03:45:59 pm

The EU Court of Justice has placed a bomb under all 196 bilateral trade agreements between EU nations, by dismissing the damages claim that Dutch insurance company Achmea had against Slovakia.

All bilateral EU trade agreements have a clause for legally independent investor-state dispute settlement. (Bascially the same as the ISDS clause in the TTIP, but then for EU investors and nations).

In 2004, the Slovakian government opened it's market for private insurance companies, and Achmea set up an insurance company there. The next government however, partially rolled back the liberalisation. Achmea was pissed about the restriction on dividend payments, and Achmea went to the arbitrage commission.
With success: the arbiters ruled that Slovakia had to pay Achmea 22.1 million euros in damages.

Slovakia disagreed, and went to the EU Court of Justice.
Today, 14 years later, the EU Court ruled that Slovakia does not need to pay.

The EU Court of Justice ruled today that such legally indepenent dispute settlement goes against the autonomy of EU member's legislation, and is thus in contradiction with EU law.

I can only say, good call, EU Court. Investor-state dispute settlement is very undemocratic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 03:54:33 pm

Sounds like Achmea being a sore loser more than anything. That the next government is going to change policies is always a risk. It's the same for in general, European companies can complain loudly or lobby their home government over it (or maybe take them to the WTO courts) when the US changes some policy, but they can't sue the US over it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 03:58:45 pm

Well, before Trump, who has spoken out against ISDS (or at least against TTIP as a whole), the US very much wanted that to be possible. The whole ISDS clause in the TTIP (which might or might not have been implemented, I think it hasn't but there has been a lot of effort to sneak it in at a quiet moment) was a US idea (obviously, because it's a neocon's wet dream). It works both ways, so yeah, foreign companies can sue the US for damages from new laws, and US companies can sue EU nations for damages from new laws.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 04:07:01 pm

I wonder if it'd be constitutional in the US since the same sovereignity and autonomy issues which were brought up would also apply to the US.

I think I recall the TPP having something similar as well, not sure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 04:08:05 pm

It must be constitutional, since you already have it for ages in the TTP, and in the trade agreement with Canada, what's it called, NAFTA?
That, or no one ever bothered to challenge it for constitutionality.

Quote from: wiki

Resistance from the EU side to the US proposal to include an ISDS clause in the draft Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership) treaty was such as to cause this element to be abandoned in September 2015. In its place, the European Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission) proposed an investment court system (ICS).^{[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#cite_note-9)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#cite_note-10)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#cite_note-11)} Not long afterwards, ICS was declared illegal by the German Association of Magistrates,^{[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#cite_note-12)} though the Commission dismissed the magistrates' judgement as based on a misunderstanding.^{[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement#cite_note-:0-13)} For its part, the United States wants ISDS reinstated

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 06, 2018, 04:17:50 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 06, 2018, 08:38:34 am

The main cause of the economic crisises in Europe is Germany putting their own economy over that of the other EU members'. You see, through some economical nonsense I only half remember, the shared Euro currency but separate economies mean that when Germany makes a surplus, it causes deficits in her fellow Euro-users. Because of this, the countries involved entered an agreement that, to make sure that the other economies did not crash, Germany had to restrict her surplus to a certain percentage. Germany then proceeded to completely ignore this agreement, ran the other economies into the ground, and then pretended to be all surprised when shit exploded.

Since then Germany have continued to fuck the crashed states over in every way they can while constantly repeating that "EU solidarity means that everybody else have to help pay for the mess we caused for our own profit". Unsurprisingly, the rest of the EU is not amused, and are worried that any kind of "emergency fund" is just a way to make the rest of the EU foot the bill while Germany continues to bolster her own economy through said economic practices which causes the deficits to begin with.

What do you think of the argument then, that this would all be solved by the further transfer of national sovereignty to a centralized EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:27:39 pm

You can have German dominance if Germany is dissolved along with the rest of the constituent states of the EU into a regional based federal state. As a bonus that would solve the issues of rising regional separatism some parts of states by removing the overload and giving them equal representative power and preventing the oppression of regions by a nation state trying to keep a national identity based on a single dominate cultural group as the basis of state power and stability.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 04:37:40 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:27:39 pm

You can have German dominance if Germany is dissolved along with the rest of the constituent states of the EU into a regional based federal state. As a bonus that would solve the issues of rising regional separatism some parts of states by removing the overload and giving them equal representative power and preventing the oppression of regions by a nation state trying to keep a national identity based on a single dominate cultural group as the basis of state power and stability.

And that's worked out so well for us, right? Even so, it's not a perfect system and there can still be an issue of how much representation smaller states (population wise) have vs the larger more populous states. And there are still going to be economic powerhouses or those dominating in specific industries having more influence than they might.

tl;dr: The US system can work as a scaffold to start from, but Europe is still going to have to find solutions that work for them as they're starting from an almost entirely different starting point than the US ever did, and we've had over 200 years of tweaking and modifying to get to the current system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 06, 2018, 04:37:57 pm

A disagreement between Kosovo and Serbia has made clocks all across the EU fall behind real time.
No, really.

Alternating current in the EU exits the wall plug at 50 Hertz. Or, it used to.
However, since the second half of january, the frequency has dropped 4/1000nds of a Hertz.
According to Entso-E, the European association of power net distributors, this is because Kosovo and Serbia are not contributing the agreed amount of power to the net.

Kosovo and Serbia have been fighting for 20 years now, and their newest thing is trying to thwart each other by witholding power from the net, for a total of 300MW capacity, about the output of a small gas power plant (and blaming each other for it).
In total, the Balkan region now owes Entso-E 113 GWh.
Entso-E claims the dip cannot be compensated by other power plants, because 'the net needs to be balanced'.
They want clarity about who is going to be held responsible for the shortage, and urge local and EU politicians to take action.

Digital clocks that do not depend on the internet or quartz crystal use the power net's frequency to keep track of their time.
By now, many clocks in thermostats, ovens, alarm clocks, and more are 6 minutes behind on real time.
Until the matter is resolved, Entso-E will be forced to keep transitting power at the lower frequency, and our clocks will keep running too slow, and fall behind further and further.

So if you're six minutes late for work, blame Serbia and Kosovo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:46:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 04:37:40 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:27:39 pm

You can have German dominance if Germany is dissolved along with the rest of the constituent states of the EU into a regional based federal state. As a bonus that would solve the issues of rising regional separatism some parts of states by removing the overload and giving them equal representative power and preventing the oppression of regions by a nation state trying to keep a national identity based on a single dominate cultural group as the basis of state power and stability.

And that's worked out so well for us, right? Even so, it's not a perfect system and there can still be an issue of how much representation smaller states (population wise) have vs the larger more populous states. And there are still going to be economic powerhouses or those dominating in specific industries having more influence than they might.

tl;dr: The US system can work as a scaffold to start from, but Europe is still going to have to find solutions that work for them as they're starting from an almost entirely different starting point than the US ever did, and we've had over 200 years of tweaking and modifying to get to the current system.

Well no it has not because no one is structured like that. You would break up the larger ones so the diffidence is not so large. and if you have enough with lots of divergent interests they can help balance each other by a equal representative power. You don't keep the old state borders. That way you can avoid stuff like having a California with out sized influence on the state and the domination of that internal state by its own centers by separating them out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 05:06:37 pm

Sounds like the European power network is very vulnerable to a severe blackout or chain reaction if it's so interconnected that sheneinighans between two states would disrupt things. I thought there would be buffers between individual country networks or at least have regional networks rather than one monolithic network.

I get that you guys want to have an integrated power system through all, but energy networks are one of the things where it makes sense to have regional blocks.

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:46:11 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 06, 2018, 04:37:40 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 04:27:39 pm

You can have German dominance if Germany is dissolved along with the rest of the constituent states of the EU into a regional based federal state. As a bonus that would solve the issues of rising regional separatism some parts of states by removing the overload and giving them equal representative power and preventing the oppression of regions by a nation state trying to keep a national identity based on a single dominate cultural group as the basis of state power and stability.

And that's worked out so well for us, right? Even so, it's not a perfect system and there can still be an issue of how much representation smaller states (population wise) have vs the larger more populous states. And there are still going to be economic powerhouses or those dominating in specific industries having more influence than they might.

tl;dr: The US system can work as a scaffold to start from, but Europe is still going to have to find solutions that work for them as they're starting from an almost entirely different starting point than the US ever did, and we've had over 200 years of tweaking and modifying to get to the current system.

Well no it has not because no one is structured like that. You would break up the larger ones so the diffidence is not so large. and if you have enough with lots of divergent interests they can help balance each other by a equal representative power. You don't keep the old state borders. That way you can avoid stuff like having a California with out sized influence on the state and the domination of that internal state by its own centers by separating them out.

Yeah, I was being rhetorical with that question since it definetly hasn't worked all that great, but it still works as a continent spanning analogue to Europe as it has the same analogous diversity of industries, etc, that a federalised Europe would have. So, it still works as something to point to and say that doing x in y way hasn't worked too well and that Europe could try doing it differently since some parts have worked well, others not so much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 06, 2018, 05:09:13 pm

That's whats nice about building things later. If your smart you can avoid other peoples mistakes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 12:27:50 pm

So, an update on the Russian ex-spy, it seems that some kind of nerve agent was used (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/07/russian-spy-police-appeal-for-witnesses-as-cobra-meeting-takes-place).

fakeedit: Part of that links url is 'as cobra meeting takes place', what the heck is that about? The article doesn't mention cobra or anything. edit: This maybe? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office_Briefing_Rooms) Seems like the most logical explaination.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2018, 12:44:10 pm

Great, so UK has now been victim to nuclear and chemical attack. I guess Russia will use smallpox for their next victim?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 12:58:56 pm

Biological agents don't seem like a great option for targeted assassination though, unless you don't care about collateral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2018, 01:15:20 pm

I suppose we're lucky Boris isn't running the show in the UK, or I think he might have cried ARTICLE 5 DECLARE WAR ON RUSSIA for those attacks on UK soil (he already threatened with severe measures against Russia yesterday, before it was even known it was a nerve toxin)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 07, 2018, 01:53:50 pm

Brexit trade negotiations still going nowhere, with the EU insisting that the UK's only options are to be part of the custom union, or a CETA-like trade deal which would only include limited scope for services, including financial ones.  (https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21738336-britains-trade-proposal-dismissed-brussels-more-cherry-picking-eu-rejects-theresa?cid1=cust/ddnew/email/n/n/2018037n/owned/n/n/ddnew/n/n/n/nEU/Daily_Dispatch/email&etear=dailydispatch)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2018, 03:26:02 pm

Heh, the police officer that was first at the scene at the poisoning site has also been admitted to hospital with symptoms of nerve toxin poisioning.
The British authorities have put hundreds of police officers, forensic specialists, and members of the intelligence agencies on the case immediatly.
Back with the Litvenenko case, the British government was blamed for finding out it was actually a poisoning case with nuclear material way too late.
It took several weeks before it was even discovered Litvenenko had been poisoned with polonium.

Skripal and his daughter are still in critical condition in hospital. Their clothes and other posessions have been taken to a top secret defense laboratory in Porton Down, where it was discovered that the two have been poisoned with an unknown nerve agent, instead of what initial speculations by the media said to be opiates.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 03:40:13 pm

You know, a reporter earlier wondered why they'd use something so easily traceable since there are so few with the capacity to even make nerve agents. So, yeah, it does seem like something that is rather sloppy work. Either that or like NK, they don't care about the reprucussions. editwhiletyping: OR they think that they won't have much consequence over it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2018, 03:55:43 pm

What consequences did they suffer for Litvinenko?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 04:08:00 pm

Not much apparently, on wiki, the UK tried to get Russia to extradite some people (not sure why they even bothered to try if the Russian constitution or law prevents it from happening) and when that failed, they expelled some diplomats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2018, 04:44:26 pm

So they kind of have a point then. So far there have been  no significant consequences for their actions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 07, 2018, 05:20:04 pm

Well, except bringing UK-Russia relations to an all-time low.
Scotland Yard found out that there were actually 3 attempts with polonium-210 on Litvenenko's life. The first two failed, but did leave radioactive trails in the suspects' hotel rooms.
Russia has refused to extradite the two suspects, former KGB agents Andrey Lugovoy and Dmitry Kovtun. I believe Putin even awarded one of them with a medal of honour (albeit not for murdering Litvenenko).
Back then, UK did not want to escalate the situation, so no repercussions followed. I wouldn't be so sure that they will be so diplomatic if Scotland Yard can prove again that this attack comes from Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 05:26:19 pm

Given that it's basically a spy vs spy type drama, I wouldn't be surprised if there was stuff that happened that the public wouldn't be aware of

The fact that a nerve agent was used might actually be a bigger deal than the attempt itself. But still, what exactly can the UK do publicly? Put sanctions on Russia maybe? None of us know why the UK government didn't go further than trying to extradite some people and then expelling some diplomats. ninja'd somewhat.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 07, 2018, 05:20:04 pm

Well, except bringing UK-Russia relations to an all-time low.
Scotland Yard found out that there were actually 3 attempts with polonium-210 on Litvenenko's life. The first two failed, but did leave radioactive trails in the suspects' hotel rooms.
Russia has refused to extradite the two suspects, former KGB agents Andrey Lugovoy and Dmitry Kovtun. I believe Putin even awarded one of them with a medal of honour (albeit not for murdering Litvenenko).
Back then, UK did not want to escalate the situation, so no repercussions followed. I wouldn't be so sure that they will be so diplomatic if Scotland Yard can prove again that this attack comes from Russia.

Not to mention different government and different geopolitical climate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 07, 2018, 06:44:05 pm

I think Russia is still under sanction after Crimea so there’s not much else that can be done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2018, 07:17:03 pm

Plus with the current crisis on top of them I very much doubt that  the British goverment is willing to carry out significant efforts in that regard

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 07:25:38 pm

I really doubt the whole Brexit business would have any affect over what they can do about the assassination attempt (well, they're calling it attempted murder, but same thing legally) of the ex-spy. The effects of an unnegotiated (or 'hard') Brexit won't happen until 2019 (summer of, I think) and it only affects economic policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 07, 2018, 07:37:49 pm

Political turmoil is happening already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 07:48:55 pm

Even if theres political turmoil happening, all it takes is for the PM to be willing to act against Russia.

Outside of expelling some diplomats, maybe some sanctions, and whatever cloak and dagger activities, I don't see what they can about it anyway. Call the UN Security Council over it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 03:11:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 07:48:55 pm

Even if theres political turmoil happening, all it takes is for the PM to be willing to act against Russia.

Outside of expelling some diplomats, maybe some sanctions, and whatever cloak and dagger activities, I don't see what they can about it anyway. Call the UN Security Council over it?

Nah, the real impact of Brexit is that the UK finds itself needed to negotiate market access to a bunch of countries, both to replace the EU trade deal its going to loose, and to cushion the loss of access to EU market. This mean, generally, that the UK can't really afford to antagonize anyone.

BTW, isn't it funny how a lot of people complained about the Queen potentially meeting Trump, but no one bat an eyelid when she meets the Saudi crown prince? Maybe the power of the awesome Saudi propaganda trucks?

(http://saudigazette.com.sa/uploads/images/2018/03/07/748844.jpg.pagespeed.ce.GyYGDSftHd.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 04:43:24 am

Some Dutch universities are considering a halt on accepting foreign students.
Dutch universities have become so internationally renowned, that 210 of our academic studies now have more than half of their class filled with foreign students.
70 studies even have more than 3/4 foreign students.
Some of those come for a 1 year exchange program, but the vast majority are going to do the full 4 to 8 years here.

The TU Delft even broke national law by instating a full stop on students from outisde the EU for their bachelor of Computer Science and Engineering, because they had just too many applications.
This is illegal, but they got special permission from the minister of Education.

Dutch universities have become so popular because of their high quality, affordability, and because nearly all academic studies are taught 100% in english, contrary to universities in other EU countries like France and Italy.

For years, the internationalization has been promoted and encouraged by the universities, but now they fear it has gone too far.
Especially restricted studies with a numerus fixus are worried that national applicants will be ousted by foreign applicants. There's no evidence that this is already the case, though.

Universities have joined forces now and asked minister van Engelshoven to make a law that requires at least 50% of all spots for a studies be reserved for national applicants.

It is unlikely that the minister can comply though. Refusing students based on nationality is discrimination, and in contradiction with our Constitution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 04:58:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 04:43:24 am

It is unlikely that the minister can comply though. Refusing students based on nationality is discrimination, and in contradiction with our Constitution.

That's odd. Can't you discriminate on residenceship though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 08, 2018, 07:11:13 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 03:11:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 07:48:55 pm

Even if theres political turmoil happening, all it takes is for the PM to be willing to act against Russia.

Outside of expelling some diplomats, maybe some sanctions, and whatever cloak and dagger activities, I don't see what they can about it anyway. Call the UN Security Council over it?

Nah, the real impact of Brexit is that the UK finds itself needed to negotiate market access to a bunch of countries, both to replace the EU trade deal its going to loose, and to cushion the loss of access to EU market. This mean, generally, that the UK can't really afford to antagonize anyone.

BTW, isn't it funny how a lot of people complained about the Queen potentially meeting Trump, but no one bat an eyelid when she meets the Saudi crown prince? Maybe the power of the awesome Saudi propaganda trucks?

(http://saudigazette.com.sa/uploads/images/2018/03/07/748844.jpg.pagespeed.ce.GyYGDSftHd.jpg)

I could have sworn there were a load of protestors when the Saudi prince showed up...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 09:20:36 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 08, 2018, 07:11:13 am

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 03:11:51 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 07, 2018, 07:48:55 pm

Even if theres political turmoil happening, all it takes is for the PM to be willing to act against Russia.

Outside of expelling some diplomats, maybe some sanctions, and whatever cloak and dagger activities, I don't see what they can about it anyway. Call the UN Security Council over it?

Nah, the real impact of Brexit is that the UK finds itself needed to negotiate market access to a bunch of countries, both to replace the EU trade deal its going to loose, and to cushion the loss of access to EU market. This mean, generally, that the UK can't really afford to antagonize anyone.

BTW, isn't it funny how a lot of people complained about the Queen potentially meeting Trump, but no one bat an eyelid when she meets the Saudi crown prince? Maybe the power of the awesome Saudi propaganda trucks?

(http://saudigazette.com.sa/uploads/images/2018/03/07/748844.jpg.pagespeed.ce.GyYGDSftHd.jpg)

I could have sworn there were a load of protestors when the Saudi prince showed up...

I did see a few articles saying that people were objecting to the Saudi Prince's visit, didn't read to find out the reasons though. I'd guess that the reason why there wasn't as much an uproar over him visiting vs Trump visiting is that the Saudi prince hasn't been an asshole to a longtime ally (or is personally an asshole). The fact that he's actual royalty may also have a bit to do with it, dunno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 10:40:00 am

Quote from: greatorder on March 08, 2018, 10:14:25 am

I think a chunk of it is that you expect Saudi Arabian princes to be bastards. You don't expect the POTUS to.

Can't recall who on here said it, but it was something along the lines of "Houses being blown up wasn't news during the Blitz."

I'd see it more as a "hate heretics more than heathen" thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 08, 2018, 12:10:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 04:43:24 am

Some Dutch universities are considering a halt on accepting foreign students.
Dutch universities have become so internationally renowned, that 210 of our academic studies now have more than half of their class filled with foreign students.
70 studies even have more than 3/4 foreign students.
Some of those come for a 1 year exchange program, but the vast majority are going to do the full 4 to 8 years here.

The TU Delft even broke national law by instating a full stop on students from outisde the EU for their bachelor of Computer Science and Engineering, because they had just too many applications.
This is illegal, but they got special permission from the minister of Education.

Dutch universities have become so popular because of their high quality, affordability, and because nearly all academic studies are taught 100% in english, contrary to universities in other EU countries like France and Italy.

For years, the internationalization has been promoted and encouraged by the universities, but now they fear it has gone too far.
Especially restricted studies with a numerus fixus are worried that national applicants will be ousted by foreign applicants. There's no evidence that this is already the case, though.

Universities have joined forces now and asked minister van Engelshoven to make a law that requires at least 50% of all spots for a studies be reserved for national applicants.

It is unlikely that the minister can comply though. Refusing students based on nationality is discrimination, and in contradiction with our Constitution.

Seems like tons of foreign students wanting to get in is a universities dream. So much money and so many high quality applicants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 12:45:01 pm

Not sure how expensive university is for non-EU citizen in the Netherlands, but it's not clear they make that much money.

Edit: a quick look seems to imply that non-EU citizen cover the cost of their education so 8000 or more a year. In this context, it seems a win-win benefits for the Dutch to get foreign students.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 12:51:31 pm

Even if it's a win-win, they don't want to do it at the cost of pushing out national applicants, which is the main point of what martinuzz quoted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on March 08, 2018, 12:54:57 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 12:51:31 pm

Even if it's a win-win, they don't want to do it at the cost of pushing out national applicants, which is the main point of what martinuzz quoted.

He did also they there was not actually cited evidence for that happening, just the assumption that it would be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 01:34:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 12:51:31 pm

Even if it's a win-win, they don't want to do it at the cost of pushing out national applicants, which is the main point of what martinuzz quoted.

It's not like universities have an absolute limit on size. Unless it's a sudden influx (which could be the case, for exemple if a bunch of EU students that were studying in the UK are afraid of Brexit, but martinuzz hasn't say anything about that), they can just use that sweet tuition money to expand.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 08, 2018, 02:25:57 pm

BBC coverage of the Russian state-controlled media response to British media coverage of Skripal’s poisoning (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43330498).

I for one enjoy the description of BoJo as “an infant in a man’s suit”.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 02:58:07 pm

Quote from: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 01:34:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 12:51:31 pm

Even if it's a win-win, they don't want to do it at the cost of pushing out national applicants, which is the main point of what martinuzz quoted.

It's not like universities have an absolute limit on size.

Well, they do in the case of a numerus fixus studies. For example, when I finished highschool, I wanted to become a vet (wanted that since I was five). But back then there was a numerus fixus on that for a maximum of 175 students per year. I got unlucky in the random lottery and didn't get in. So I went for a studies without numerus fixus, biology. Tried again a year later (propedeutic grade biology allows access to second year of veterinarian studies, so I wouldn't lose a year), but sadly I lost the lottery again.

There's more studies that are capped like that, simply because we don't want to train more vets, or dentists than are needed in society. Graduated academic veterinarians that have to work in uneducated jobs because there are no more vets needed anywhere is a bloody waste of skill and expensive education.
Excessive foreign influx can disrupt that system, because the numerus fixus is based on national job market, not global job market.

There's no research into the effects much yet, because the trend is pretty new, which is why I said there's no proof it actually does, but it's just rational though that will tell you that if (let's stay with the vet example) there's 175 student places per year, based on the national need of new vets per year, and more than 50% of those places are taken by foreign students, that return to their home countries to become a vet there after graduating, we'll end up with a severe shortage of veterinarians in the Netherlands.

Personally, I disagree with banning foreign students to solve the problem. Expanding capacity, and/or basing numerus fixus on EU or global job perspective would make more sense.
Then again, expanding a studies to have 150% capacity can't be done in just one or two years. Universities are limited by the amount of professors and other staff, and real estate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 08, 2018, 03:10:47 pm

Even then, there has to be a cap on the max number of students for a certain area of study. Stuff like practicals, exams, lab workshops and similar can't get too big because it impacts the quality of education and you can't really just make more smaller groups because those need to fit the timetable of both available spaces and faculty to run them.

Places like Croatia have limited numbers for most unis, where a smaller portion of the total is open to any foreign students (EU or not) while the majority of it is for citizens only. Not sure if that's being changed anytime soon, but it's a pretty decent system, even tho it does have issues since it's mostly static from what I've seen. So you get shit like hundreds of economists entering the job market that can't really support them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 03:15:48 pm

Quote from: Jopax on March 08, 2018, 03:10:47 pm

Even then, there has to be a cap on the max number of students for a certain area of study. Stuff like practicals, exams, lab workshops and similar can't get too big because it impacts the quality of education and you can't really just make more smaller groups because those need to fit the timetable of both available spaces and faculty to run them.

Why, you can just hire more faculty. You just have to think of university education as an export industry, with the added benefits that you're training a whole bunch of university-educated people into knowing the Netherlands, which will increase business ties even if they go back.

Quote

Places like Croatia have limited numbers for most unis, where a smaller portion of the total is open to any foreign students (EU or not) while the majority of it is for citizens only. Not sure if that's being changed anytime soon, but it's a pretty decent system, even tho it does have issues since it's mostly static from what I've seen. So you get shit like hundreds of economists entering the job market that can't really support them.

I'm fairly certain they'd be open to EU citizen too, it's a EU thing that you have to treat all EU citizens equally for university. There might be limtiations for residents though.

To me, it just seems a bit dumb to try to regulate who study what if the student is bearing the cost (as with the non-EU students in the Netherlands). Let them buy the education they want, and just invest in giving prospective graduate info about jobs opportunity with various diploma so they can know what to study. Then, you can try to offer a limited number of subsidised spots if you want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 08, 2018, 03:20:33 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 04:43:24 am

Refusing students based on nationality is discrimination, and in contradiction with our Constitution.

Just call it "affirmative action" or "nationality quotas".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 08, 2018, 03:21:45 pm

Materializing faculty out of thin air isn't exactly possible just yet, as far as I know atleast. Most people that are educated enough are usually already working in the private or public sector where the pay is much better for less workload by most accounts. Assistants are easier to come by but even then, there's only so much you can do if you run out of space.

The thing with Croatia is that as far as I know, excepting some private unis, classes and all the materials are in croatian, not english, and most of the professors that I've had were ok with english, but I wouldn't say they could really teach in it, especially not some of the older dinosaurs that are still clinging to their tenured position.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on March 08, 2018, 03:31:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 02:58:07 pm

-snip-

While I understand having a cap on the number of students, the lottery part surprised me. If you don't want to oversaturate the market with professionals, then you should at least be selecting based on skill (by applying tests and letting those 175 best enter the course) rather than sheer luck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 08, 2018, 03:32:11 pm

Quote from: Jopax on March 08, 2018, 03:21:45 pm

Materializing faculty out of thin air isn't exactly possible just yet, as far as I know atleast. Most people that are educated enough are usually already working in the private or public sector where the pay is much better for less workload by most accounts. Assistants are easier to come by but even then, there's only so much you can do if you run out of space.

There are litterally hordes of postdocs out there looking for tenure-track positions (something like a fourth to a third of postdocs end up with one). So no, not really hard, unless you need to double the size of your uni overnight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 03:33:43 pm

Quote from: Teneb on March 08, 2018, 03:31:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 02:58:07 pm

-snip-

While I understand having a cap on the number of students, the lottery part surprised me. If you don't want to oversaturate the market with professionals, then you should at least be selecting based on skill (by applying tests and letting those 175 best enter the course) rather than sheer luck.

They do nowadays, but they didn't 20+ years ago when I finished highschool. Still, there's something to be said against that system too.
There's many a good professional that didn't find his motivation, or field of excellence yet in highschool.
Your proposed system would have excluded Einstein from academic studies with numerus fixus, for example, his highschool grades sucked balls (or well, maybe not that bad, but he certainly wasn't an A+ student)

the random lottery in my days did make some sense, in that our highschool education was that good, that finishing the high level (VWO) was a pretty good indicator that someone would be able to finish an academic grade too, regardless if they finished it with a C+ average or an A+ average (well, we don't use letters actually, we use a scale from 1.0-10.0, where 5.5 is the minimum to pass)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on March 08, 2018, 03:40:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 03:33:43 pm

Quote from: Teneb on March 08, 2018, 03:31:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 02:58:07 pm

-snip-

While I understand having a cap on the number of students, the lottery part surprised me. If you don't want to oversaturate the market with professionals, then you should at least be selecting based on skill (by applying tests and letting those 175 best enter the course) rather than sheer luck.

They do nowadays, but they didn't 20+ years ago when I finished highschool. Still, there's something to be said against that system too.
There's many a good professional that didn't find his motivation, or field of excellence yet in highschool.
Your proposed system would have excluded Einstein from academic studies with numerus fixus, for example, his highschool grades sucked balls (or well, maybe not that bad, but he certainly wasn't an A+ student)

I'm not talking using high school grades as the test, but rather making an actual written test that prospective students have to take to get in, whose result is not affected in any way by their high school grades (well, other than of course the student's aptitudes).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 03:44:53 pm

We don't use that system, research showed it to be unreliable, because it's such a snapshot. Too easy to score below your capacity just because of stress, pressure, illness, headache, being attracted to the girl making the test next to you etc.
Highschool grades are more reliable, they're a cumulation of 6 years of highschool education and mentoring.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 04:00:43 pm

*temporarily melds Ameripol and Europol together*

So, Trump just started those tariffs with exceptions to Mexico and Canada during the NAFTA negotiations. However, for other allies, he's talking about looking at who's treating the US nicely etc and who's paying the bills, particularily military because 'rich countries are subsidizing us for protecting them'. Sounds like he's going to use the 'do they meet the 2% NATO defense thing?' reason, which is a completely BS reason as it has nothing to do with trade.

Trade war incoming.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2018, 05:40:33 pm

Not good. Now to see if Congress forbids it, like Paul Ryan said they would.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 08, 2018, 05:47:19 pm

Not sure if they actually can due to the method that was used to bypass Congress, but that won't stop them from trying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2018, 11:45:36 am

Meanwhile in Spain, the candidate to become the new regional president of Catalonia, Jordi Sànchez, cannot be sworn in.
The Spanish justice department does not allow him to leave prison, because 'he could start inciting people again'.

Sànchez is the number two on the list for the ANC, Puigdemont's party. After Puigdemont decided it was senseless for him to try and pursue his candidacy any further, Sànchez was next in line to become the new elected regional president.
He is facing charges for rebellion (upgraded from incitement since he was arrested in oktober), and has been in prison since his arrest. He can face up to 25 years in prison.
Sànchez has taken his case to the EU Court of Human Rights, claiming his right to partake in politics is being violated. The chairman of the Catalonian Parliament has decided to stall the appointment of a new president until the EU court has ruled in the case.

Meanwhile, Amnesty International is urging the EU and UN to take action against Spain for taking political prisoners.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 11, 2018, 11:54:14 am

A discussion on this topic I participated in elsewhere yielded the conclusion that it would come to nothing because "Catalans are a bunch of pussies".

Please discuss.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 11, 2018, 11:58:34 am

Obviously, strongly worded letters from the UN to everyone involved will prove to be helpful.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 11, 2018, 12:10:45 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on March 11, 2018, 11:54:14 am

A discussion on this topic I participated in elsewhere yielded the conclusion that it would come to nothing because "Catalans are a bunch of pussies".

Please discuss.

40% participation rate, with 90% of that being pro-independence, in the illegal referendum despite knowledge you’d likely get the shit kicked out of you by the stormtroopers Spanish police is pretty good evidence to the contrary I’d say.

Also the returning of a majority of pro-independence politicians to heir parliament after that and then trying to re-install the guy who was kicked out to trigger that election is a massive double-bird to Madrid.

Where is this elsewhere what said that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2018, 12:25:45 pm

I think I recall Rajoy saying that he'd accept whatever government is formed after the snap election.

And yes, the fact that they went right back to square one should have been a cue that they should try different tactics, like, I dunno, talking to them about their grievances?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 11, 2018, 12:35:35 pm

He also said he’d allow Puigdemont to run if he wasn’t in jail at the time of the election, so I’m disinclined to say he was interested in a fair and free election :P at least for independence supporters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 11, 2018, 12:49:35 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on March 11, 2018, 11:54:14 am

A discussion on this topic I participated in elsewhere yielded the conclusion that it would come to nothing because "Catalans are a bunch of pussies".

Please discuss.

Out of curiosity, who were you discussing the situation with? 



Anyway, so yeah, situation is complex and getting more complicated by the minute.

By the way, the whole ordeal is also complicated by the fact that Rajoy's party is trying to outcompete in "Spanish"/Castilian* nationalism another national right wing party, and at the same time both major Catalonian nationalist parties are engaged in a cold war (we might want to discuss these two things later... I dont think these events trascended to the international press, and they kind of explain the reason why certain things happened like they did)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 11, 2018, 12:52:58 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 11, 2018, 12:49:35 pm

Out of curiosity, who were you discussing the situation with?

Some people at another place. I'm not going to name them or anything. :P

I will say, however, that it has further been argued since then that "the Basques would have blown some shit up by now".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 11, 2018, 01:10:07 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on March 11, 2018, 12:52:58 pm

I will say, however, that it has further been argued since then that "the Basques would have blown some shit up by now".

...I was kind of wondering if the conversation was along those lines.
I'm kind of curious because back home the worry that we all had was that this would result in 20 years of violence.
Back in the nineties this sort of incident would have ended up with dead people.
I think that there is some awareness of the risk in the political class. Despite how bad things are, people in both sides of the current conflict have shown out of character restraint at times, preventing the situation from fully spiralling out of control

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 11, 2018, 05:05:59 pm

Belgian pharmacists and their customers are getting blisters all over their face from excessive facepalming.
The Belgian government decided a while ago to distribute 4.6 million boxes of iodine tablets to it's population, in case there ever is a disaster with a nuclear power plant in Belgium.

Dutch people who live within a radius of 20km of a Belgian nuclear plant have also been provided with them by the Belgian government.
Now while all Duth got them delivered by mail, the Belgians themselves have to pick them up at their local pharmacists.

Pharmacists are getting really tired of the same conversation over and over.

Customer: <Crunch Nom Nom> So now I am protected against radiation?
Pharmacist: <Facepalm> NOOOOO You shouldn't take them now, you should take them 3 days before a nuclear disaster happens
Customer: Oh, so how do I know when a nuclear disaster is about to happen in 3 days?
Pharmacist: I dunno. <looks at report on the state of Belgian nuclear plants> Just take them now, I suppose
Customer: <Facepalm>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 11, 2018, 05:17:44 pm

That stuff doesn't even protect you against radiation anyway, it only protects against bioaccumulation of radioactive iodine. I'm no radiation sickness specialist, but I gotta question the risk-to-cost on this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 11, 2018, 06:26:53 pm

Sounds reminiscent of the swine flu scare and the stockpiling of tamiflu that followed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2018, 09:55:10 pm

I certainly hope they don't go Three Mile Island or something. A Chernobyl shouldn't happen because I don't think they're designed like that.

Marine LePen proposes renaming National Front to National Rally (https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-french-far-right-proposes-renaming-national-front-party-national-rally/). I get the idea of rebranding, but wouldn't a rebrand be more of a departure from the old name besides changing the second part? And honestly could have been more imaginative maybe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2018, 02:57:32 am

Well, it's still part of making the Front sounds less threatening. Front sounds more combative that "Rassemblement", which means rally but also the act of gathering, as in gathering the nation together.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2018, 03:16:57 am

It might be also an attempt to make a callback to the National Assembly of the French revolution

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 05:09:10 am

Or maybe Le Pen sr. threatened to sue Le Pen jr. over the name rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 12, 2018, 05:56:34 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2018, 03:16:57 am

It might be also an attempt to make a callback to the National Assembly of the French revolution

Nah, doesn't really feels that way in French. Plus, the National Assembly is still the name of the lower house of parliament, so not somehting you want to associate yourself with if you're campaigning as an outsider.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am

Our government found out why a large part of our air raid sirens failed to go off during the monthly test.
It is because of the clocks that are running behind because of Kosovo and Serbia.

One of the air raid's hacking preventions works simply by comparing the siren's internal clock with the activation signal's timestamp. If those are more than 3 minutes apart, the sirens won't fire.

Only those sirens that had had their regular checkup (which includes checking the clock time) went off, the clocks of the other sirens were too far behind.

For now, the government has ordered the clocks to be manually checked and corrected more frequently to solve the issue.

EDIT: in other news, it is expected that May will officially blame Russia for the nerve gas attack on Skripal (who is still in critical condition in hospital, along with his daughter).
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43367515 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43367515)
The police officer who was poisoned when searching the victim's appartment is also still in hospital, and very ill, but at least he has been able to talk to his family.
The cemetary where Skripal's wife and son are buried is under investigation as well, rumour has it that their bodies will be exhumed, and there will be an investigation to see if their death maybe wasn't natural after all.

Minister of Foreign Affairs Boris Johnson has stated that "Russia has become a malignant and disruptive force. They have been launching cyberattacks at UK infrastructure that I increasingly think we should categorize as ... acts of war".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 12, 2018, 07:46:00 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am

Our government found out why a large part of our air raid sirens failed to go off during the monthly test.
It is because of the clocks that are running behind because of Kosovo and Serbia.

One of the air raid's hacking preventions works simply by comparing the siren's internal clock with the activation signal's timestamp. If those are more than 3 minutes apart, the sirens won't fire.

Only those sirens that had had their regular checkup (which includes checking the clock time) went off, the clocks of the other sirens were too far behind.

For now, the government has ordered the clocks to be manually checked and corrected more frequently to solve the issue.

EDIT: in other news, it is expected that May will officially blame Russia for the nerve gas attack on Skripal (who is still in critical condition in hospital, along with his daughter).
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43367515 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43367515)
The police officer who was poisoned when searching the victim's appartment is also still in hospital, and very ill, but at least he has been able to talk to his family.
The cemetary where Skripal's wife and son are buried is under investigation as well, rumour has it that their bodies will be exhumed, and there will be an investigation to see if their death maybe wasn't natural after all.

Minister of Foreign Affairs Boris Johnson has stated that "Russia has become a malignant and disruptive force. They have been launching cyberattacks at UK infrastructure that I increasingly think we should categorize as ... acts of war".

It's actually kind of funny that that monthly siren check proved useful for once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2018, 08:14:09 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am

Minister of Foreign Affairs Boris Johnson has stated that "Russia has become a malignant and disruptive force. They have been launching cyberattacks at UK infrastructure that I increasingly think we should categorize as ... acts of war".

Oh boy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 12, 2018, 08:21:47 am

Crimean War 2: Electric Boogaloo when?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:11:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am

Our government found out why a large part of our air raid sirens failed to go off during the monthly test.
It is because of the clocks that are running behind because of Kosovo and Serbia.

You guys in europe need a less integrated electric network, because it makes sense to have separate blocks in case of faliure, or in this case, two countries screwing with each other.

Also, Serbia and Kosovo (Serbia in particular) need to be smacked around with a trout a bunch of times and be told to knock it off.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2018, 08:14:09 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am

Minister of Foreign Affairs Boris Johnson has stated that "Russia has become a malignant and disruptive force. They have been launching cyberattacks at UK infrastructure that I increasingly think we should categorize as ... acts of war".

Oh boy

They could always invoke article 5....

In the daily press briefing, The WH condemns the nerve gas attack on the ex-spy and his daughter, but doesn't point the finger at Russia. (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377982-white-house-stands-by-uk-after-may-says-russia-was-likely-behind) Pretty much what you'd expect from an adminstration that seems afraid to criticise Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 03:47:16 pm

Theresa May has given Russia until wednesday to explain how it is possible that a nerve agent determined to have been synthesized in Russia was used to perform an assassination attempt on UK soil.
If Russia fails to come up with a probable explanation, the UK will have no choice but to consider it an attack with chemical weapons on British soil by Russia.
Theresa May will reveal her plans for retaliation wednesday.

The investigation into the nerve gas used concluded it was Novitsjok, a rare nerve agent fabricated by the Russian army.
The UK says there are two possibilities: Either Russia has lost state control of their weapons of mass destruction, or the Russian government ordered the hit.
Contrary to earlier assassination cases, the British government's tone is harsh, and no longer cares about diplomatic relations. The difference with earlier attacks is that this time, innocent UK citizens were also harmed.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/britse-premier-may-rusland-moet-zenuwgasaanval-voor-woensdag-uitleggen-anders-volgen-represailles~a4580423/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/britse-premier-may-rusland-moet-zenuwgasaanval-voor-woensdag-uitleggen-anders-volgen-represailles~a4580423/)

Heh, we could genuinely have an Article 5 incoming  :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 03:55:05 pm

I wasn't actually being serious about invoking article 5, if anybody thought I was being serious.

How do you get the 'yes, I accept cookies' button to work in google translate? Because that button comes up in google translate but it's not pressable. :P I'll just translate the text I suppose.

What exactly would NATO do if they invoked article 5? That's kind of the problem, they want to do something, but it doesn't quite rise to act of war in the traditional sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 05:13:27 pm

Looked up novichok. It's an umbrella term for a group of nerve agents developed by the Soviet Union in between 1970 and 1980.
Some of the novichok agents are 8 times more toxic than VX. Dayum.
If they survive at all, there's probably not much other future for Skripal and his daughter than life as a table plant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2018, 05:20:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 03:55:05 pm

I wasn't actually being serious about invoking article 5, if anybody thought I was being serious.

How do you get the 'yes, I accept cookies' button to work in google translate? Because that button comes up in google translate but it's not pressable. :P I'll just translate the text I suppose.

What exactly would NATO do if they invoked article 5? That's kind of the problem, they want to do something, but it doesn't quite rise to act of war in the traditional sense.

Close the GIUK gap, English channel & Bosphorous strait to Russian ships, contest the Arctics (for reals this time) root out Russian agents and expel them, move military units to the Baltics and Ukraine...? I believe there's a fair bit NATO could do to Russia without starting WWIII

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 05:35:25 pm

The only ally that would likely join would be Belarus as that's basically a sattelite state, plus it's sandwiched between Russia and the rest of Europe.

China wouldn't give much of a damn about it and Iran is occupied with their own issues. The only way they'd join is if things escalated beyond the European theatre.

It'd also pose a real problem for Trump, given his friendlyness with Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2018, 05:56:41 pm

I hope that no one in charge of any NATO command, whether US or non-US, will share critical military information with Trump that could endanger NATO when the intel is shared with Russia  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2018, 09:05:34 pm

Not much different from Obama selling UK nuclear serials to the Russians or US agents bragging about confidential shit on the news because it makes them look cool. No professionalism tbh, and I always harp on that the Murricans need to stop pretending that Trump isn't entirely ordinary for their country. He is the American abyss, the mere reflection of the nation's soul. It wears orange fake tan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on March 12, 2018, 09:23:55 pm

Quote from: greatorder on March 12, 2018, 09:11:08 pm

"But people that are religious and have family values can't be evil!"

It's a pretty widespread belief, truth be told. Also, by religious they obviously mean Christian/Abrahamic. Everyone else is a bunch of degenerates.

Signed, a degenerate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 09:29:05 pm

I seriously doubt one single person could pull off EVERY SINGLE THING that Russia trolls did. Sure, they could have done legions of spambots, but the only position that a single position could be in to claim to pull it off would be in charge of the whole thing.

And I'm sure we'd all like our governments (of whatever nation you reside in) to be completely and perfectly transparent, even in national security, but it isn't going to happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 13, 2018, 12:01:22 am

In a rare EuroPol edition of The Alex Jones Truth, Alex speaks the truth of the satanic pedophile cult known as the BBC. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a59DlnPkXDg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 05:19:08 am

Why do people keep linking videos of this guy? Best thing to do is just don't give it any attention at all.
I can't imagine there's more than two or three people in the world still watching that guy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 06:24:46 am

After a week of national public outrage and parliament threatening to make a new law to cancel it, ING decided to forfeit the planned salary increase for their senior staff member Ralph Hamers.

The bank wanted to give him stocks worth a million as a means of salary increase that ducks the law that limits salary increase for bank staff to 2.2%.
The stocks would have increased his salary by 50%.
But they underestimated the memory of the public. Not too long ago, ING was rescued with millions of taxpayer euros, and people still remembered.
It was headline news for a week, and parliament and government debated on it.

ING couldn't take the pressure, and saw that people were quitting their accounts to find another bank, and decided to cancel the salary increase.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 09:38:39 am

Russia is now saying that they won't (or perhaps can't) respond to the UK unless they get a sample of the nerve agent.

Which, surprisingly despite the previous rhetoric and however much you trust Russia, sounds pretty reasonable actually.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2018, 09:59:29 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 13, 2018, 12:01:22 am

In a rare EuroPol edition of The Alex Jones Truth, Alex speaks the truth of the satanic pedophile cult known as the BBC. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a59DlnPkXDg)

If you are unfamiliar with recent UK history regarding the Rotherham, Telford or Savile coverups, the BBC not only covered up pedophile rings on the streets or in Parliament (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/a-big-political-cover-up-of-1980s-pedophile-ring-in-u-k-parliament/), not publishing, investigating and even "losing" evidence implicating pedophiles in power or not - for decades, but multiple employees were accused of raping hundreds of children over the same time period, with their only response being to launch an internal review over their child protection policy. This was in spite of their actions being known by many in government, media - state and private, and even the MI5 intelligence agency. Many are yet to have their crimes known to the public. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/05/lost-child-abuse-files-home-office) One wonders how many remain in power. The BBC's silence over the Telford case (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-bbcs-shameful-silence-on-the-telford-sex-scandal/) is just more of the same, where you can take hundreds of children, set them on fire, sell them into slavery and degrade them in ways that would be sick to pests - let alone children, and the BBC would rather publish stories about how we should consider giving pedophiles our support (http://archive.is/jQ972) than report upon the child abuse cases.

I don't see many American news media who aren't owned by British media oligarchs that report this. But perhaps you can see why I'd prefer the undignified ramblings of a water filter merchant to an America that is entirely silent to the corruption which still exists in our society. The same can perhaps be said of the USA, with your pedophile congressmen and Hollywood directors. Just look at the comment section of that video - how many commenters are saying this must be bullshit because they haven't heard anything about it. But how can they hear anything about it if they get their news from the people accused? I see a single comment mentioning Jimmy Saville, which has but 2 likes upon it. One of the replies even dismisses Jimmy Saville as but one man, ignoring how many decades he operated with his actions known (or even conducted) on BBC premises with directors.
To this end the incoherent ramblings of Jones is not helpful. But I hardly expect Fox News or CNN to report this to the Americans, thus I should hope his flame bait should at least bring attention, attention which diverts focus towards the actual crimes being committed right beneath their noses.

Quote from: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 09:38:39 am

Russia is now saying that they won't (or perhaps can't) respond to the UK unless they get a sample of the nerve agent.

Which, surprisingly despite the previous rhetoric and however much you trust Russia, sounds pretty reasonable actually.

Sounds like a delaying tactic, to give the Russians more time to plan their next best move. Such a request isn't necessarily unreasonable, but the poison has been identified as a nerve agent developed by the USSR and only produced by Russia. Given Russia's past history of assassinating defectors, its threats given to defectors after Skripal and his daughter were assassinated, it's most likely Russia. The only thing which might exonerate Russia would be if they determined the nerve agent used was not one of theirs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 01:48:36 pm

Nikolaj Gloesjkov, a friend and trustee of former Russian olicharch Berezovski (who died under suspicious circumstances in 2013), and a well known critic of Putin, has been found dead in London.
While the cause of death is still unknown, police suspect his death is linked to the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter.
The police has transferred the investigation to Scotland Yard.
Gloesjkov has always claimed that Putin was behind the death of Berezovski, Litvenenko, and others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 13, 2018, 04:29:47 pm

I think that's all that's needed for Russia's response, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 04:46:25 pm

I've heard the guy had heart problems, so, it may have nothing to do with the ex-spy. However, the timing of it and the fact that he was a critic of Putin does make it look extremely suspicious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:11:27 pm

Russia did not respond to the UK's request for clarification.
The only reply they gave, was a text on the website of their embassy, saying "our British colleagues should save their fiery propaganda and slogans for their mentally retarded domestic public, maybe it has some merit there".

The UK has sent their embassador in the Hague to the OPCW, demanding Russia give full access to inspectors to check their chemical weapons programs.
The UK accuses Russia of witholding information from OPCW for years. The embassador stressed to the OPCW inspectors that "this is the first time since WW2 that chemical weapons were used on European soil."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:17:19 pm

Ouch, that's a heavy burn all right, and pretty close to qualifying for a diplomatic insult causus belli. Though that response would hardly be called diplomatic.

I wonder if that's actually an official official comment or a 'disgruntled staffer'? heh. Pulling a stunt like that with the language of the comment seems like something that would get an embassy staffer fired just about anywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:26:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:11:27 pm

The only reply they gave, was a text on the website of their embassy, saying "our British colleagues should save their fiery propaganda and slogans for their mentally retarded domestic public, maybe it has some merit there".

Can I get a source on this? I'm not seeing anything of quite that magnitude. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:28:12 pm

Quote from: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:26:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:11:27 pm

The only reply they gave, was a text on the website of their embassy, saying "our British colleagues should save their fiery propaganda and slogans for their mentally retarded domestic public, maybe it has some merit there".

Can I get a source on this? I'm not seeing anything of quite that magnitude. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/)

Same here, looked around and didn't see any mention of it, which would definetly have elicted a response.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:31:16 pm

Quote from: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:26:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:11:27 pm

The only reply they gave, was a text on the website of their embassy, saying "our British colleagues should save their fiery propaganda and slogans for their mentally retarded domestic public, maybe it has some merit there".

Can I get a source on this? I'm not seeing anything of quite that magnitude. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/)

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/)

Probably in the Dutch news first, because UK plays it via the Hague

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418 (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418):

Quote

"Our British colleagues should save their propaganda fervour and slogans for their unenlightened domestic audience, where perhaps they will have some effect".

Looks like my newspaper translated 'unenlightened' to 'achterlijk' which is dutch for 'mentally retarded'
Then again, 'unenlightened' isn't much better than 'retarded' anyways. Both are diplomatic faux pas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:34:44 pm

Ah. Worded differently. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418?_sp=3ad62876-118b-4d48-8a98-b7c7729b9909.1520991122568) Translation error, I guess. Thanks! It's definitely still a very sabre-rattling, inflammatory comment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:37:59 pm

They should have gone by the gamer mantra, 'Screenshots or it never happened.'

Quote from: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:34:44 pm

Ah. Worded differently. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418?_sp=3ad62876-118b-4d48-8a98-b7c7729b9909.1520991122568) Translation error, I guess. Thanks! It's definitely still a very sabre-rattling, inflammatory comment.

The problem is that 'unenlightened' could be interpreted a load of different ways, but they're still calling British citizens dumb in a rather diplomatic way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:39:36 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:31:16 pm

Quote from: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 08:26:59 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:11:27 pm

The only reply they gave, was a text on the website of their embassy, saying "our British colleagues should save their fiery propaganda and slogans for their mentally retarded domestic public, maybe it has some merit there".

Can I get a source on this? I'm not seeing anything of quite that magnitude. (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/)

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/)

Probably in the Dutch news first, because UK plays it via the Hague

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418 (https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418):

Quote

"Our British colleagues should save their propaganda fervour and slogans for their unenlightened domestic audience, where perhaps they will have some effect".

Looks like my newspaper translated 'unenlightened' to 'achterlijk' which is dutch for 'mentally retarded'
Then again, 'unenlightened' isn't much better than 'retarded' anyways. Both are diplomatic faux pas.

Agreed, calling a foriegn countries citizens unenlighted isn't nice, but as we've just seen, this is exactly the kind of word that will get mistranslated and misinterpreted.

Also, goggle translate outputted the dutch word as 'backward', which could be a PC'd version of that word, but otherwise, the output was coherent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:47:21 pm

Nah, to call someone 'backward', you'd say 'je loopt achter' ('you are walking behind')
'achterlijk' is most definitly the word for 'mentally retarded' (literally: 'behindlike', with behind meaning being behind on mental development)

We don't really have a dutch word for unenlightened, we'd say 'niet (zo) heel verlicht' ('not (so) very enlightened')
We do have 'onverlicht' (literally unenlightened), but we use that for when someone does not have working light on their bicycle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:54:44 pm

I inputted je loopt achter into google translate and it outputted 'you're behind', would that be an accurate translation?

'Backward' in this case is using the english definition meaning undeveloped, primitive, less advanced.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 13, 2018, 08:56:06 pm

Aren't those the same? Someone who is undeveloped, primitive and less advanced would be behind, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2018, 08:59:08 pm

It'd be the same meaning, yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 13, 2018, 09:35:03 pm

I like how they imply that Russia is some international bastion of enlightenment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Tawa on March 13, 2018, 09:49:49 pm

In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of some tea-sipping Brit, but because I am enlightened by my own autocracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on March 13, 2018, 11:44:26 pm

Russians are also notorious tea-sippers, though I've heard of some also enjoying dark roasted covfefe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 14, 2018, 02:49:46 am

After two years amidst the UK and ROI I've come to the conclusion that the take on tea around these parts is not terribly picky.  For the most part people drink this "breakfast" black tea blend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 14, 2018, 12:14:36 pm

May's speech on CNN: https://youtu.be/xSdlqwbMxk4

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 14, 2018, 12:17:14 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 14, 2018, 12:14:36 pm

May's speech on CNN: https://youtu.be/xSdlqwbMxk4

/start capslock *RAILS AGAINST YOUTUBE CAPTIONS NO LONGER BEING PROVIDED* /end capslock

And before anybody comments, NO, theres no option in the options either.

edit: It wasn't at you martinuzz, just youtube in general.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 14, 2018, 12:23:42 pm

In other news, Dutch-British food and health megacorporation Unilever, which survived a hostile takeover bid by Kraft Heinz with the promise to it's shareholders that it would get rid of it's double headquarters to reduce overhead, made their final decision known. They will abandon their headquarters in London, and move all the staff to Rotterdam.
The company says this has nothing to do with the Brexit. The decision was made because Dutch law has better protection mechanisms against hostile foreign takeovers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

Sorry, but I need to express my frustration. Thus thread is usually a last resort where some balanced opinions are being exchanged (sorry, not the opinions are always balanced - some are, but the exchange is usually), but the incident with the russian spy and the nerve gas?
I understand that reddit and media outlets and all main stream is pointing at Russia. It kind of fits with the general "we are the good guys"-exceptionalism of the west rethoric. That the same is going on here is saddening. Sorry UK, but give me some evidence. At least a little more than a Soviet formula that is on Wikipedia. Yes Russia is evil, but since when are the Western states any better? Just remembering weapons of mass destruction and Iraq.

All I see is that there is a heating propaganda war between Russia and the West. I refuse to take sides because I won't chose whose lies I believe. I believe instead, as an informed guess, that there will never be any truth in the public about a story involving a double agent, cold war rethorics, Russia, a poison attack that likely only can be orchestrated by a state actor (or one of their agencies). So, we better accept the ignorance, and look at what is happening instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Powder Miner on March 16, 2018, 03:36:04 am

If you're just making a general statement of frustration with no apparent effort to really analyze an alternative source, are you really being less ignorant than everyone else? I understand lack of trust in the media, but when all you're putting out is the statement that everything must be lies from the outset, that's rather more biased and unsubstantiated than what you're claiming to rally against, isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 16, 2018, 04:22:00 am

I'm sorry the UK didn't deliver a vial of novichok to you to give you evidence. I mean, we know Russia has killed people brazenly in the UK in the past (including the use of polonium). We know (well, the UK knows) that the nerve agent used is one that was developed in the USSR. We know that the manufacture of high-purity nerve agents is beyond that of a rogue group, so the agent in question was produced by a state.

From this, Russia is by far the most likely culprit, followed by some non-state actor (and I'm speaking of real non-state actor, not the para-state actors like the IRA or Wagner that Russia likes to use) that got it from the former USSR, which is exactly what may has been saying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 16, 2018, 04:51:56 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

Yes Russia is evil, but since when are the Western states any better?

Oh hey, this thing has two main sides to it! Therefore, we can logically deduce that both sides are roughly equal and opposite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 16, 2018, 11:10:08 am

Talk about irony, Trumps past business and unwillingness to divest from his company is getting Irish Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Varadkar in some political hot water (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43425048). However, it's possible Varadkar's association with Trump while he was tourism minister would have gotten attention regardless whether Trump divested from his business or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 17, 2018, 04:58:57 am

Russia expelled 23 British diplomats and cancelled the plans for a new British consulate in St. Petersburg, in response to the UK expelling 23 Russian diplomats and other sanctions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Ok, sorry, I will try again in a more civilized way :)
What appears strange to me is how readily a lot of people jump to readily blame Russia. It is obvious to suspect Russia and to ask for clarification, but putting ultimatums out like it's being done now - I just defies common sense to me, to start the cold war so readily again.
What would be the logical procedure is to bring the case to the OPCW for a challenge investigation against Russia, and not doing so can be interpreted as not really being interested in the truth, but rather in the conflict itself. It would be absolutely critical to see Russia's reaction to such a neutral inspection.

I find it troubling how fast France and Germany went to support the UK in this. It's not surprising though. Because of the UK's confrontation course with Russia, it is a kind of "be with or against us" situation (and then the choice is obvious).

Who did it?
Nobody knows.

Who could have done it by mere capability?
I think many countries are able to fabricate Novichock at least in small amounts. Apparently it's been manufactured  by the Soviets in Usbekistan until the 1990s, and the facilities where being dismantled with the help of the United states (wikipedia). To really get any credible insight about where the particular samples were produced, again, such samples should be given to the OPCW.

Who would have gained from it?
Putin? For his election, absolutely. T. May? Obviously, too. Finally, the country (and other countries) are behind her. And there are other obvious candidates whose agenda would benefit from the outcome of this. And there might be much deeper reasons that will never be obvious to the public, so for us, it is really hard to ask the question for who has which motive, and I would consider it to be far from answered.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 17, 2018, 05:45:56 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Ok, sorry, I will try again in a more civilized way :)
What appears strange to me is how readily a lot of people jump to readily blame Russia. It is obvious to suspect Russia and to ask for clarification, but putting ultimatums out like it's being done now - I just defies common sense to me, to start the cold war so readily again.

Looks more like Russia the Putin maffia is the one desperatly trying to reinvigorate the Cold War.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

What would be the logical procedure is to bring the case to the OPCW for a challenge investigation against Russia, and not doing so can be interpreted as not really being interested in the truth, but rather in the conflict itself. It would be absolutely critical to see Russia's reaction to such a neutral inspection.

Taking the case to the OPCW for independent investigation is exactly what the UK has done. What do you mean 'not doing so'?

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Who could have done it by mere capability?
I think many countries are able to fabricate Novichock at least in small amounts. Apparently it's been manufactured  by the Soviets in Usbekistan until the 1990s, and the facilities where being dismantled with the help of the United states (wikipedia). To really get any credible insight about where the particular samples were produced, again, such samples should be given to the OPCW.

The UK has already said that they can provide samples to the OPCW. They did not, however, feel inclined to provide samples to Russia, or start a joint investigation with Russia like they tried with the polonium case. The experience there was that the 'cooperation' from Russia mostly turned out to be delaying and denying access.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

Sorry, but I need to express my frustration. Thus thread is usually a last resort where some balanced opinions are being exchanged (sorry, not the opinions are always balanced - some are, but the exchange is usually), but the incident with the russian spy and the nerve gas?
I understand that reddit and media outlets and all main stream is pointing at Russia. It kind of fits with the general "we are the good guys"-exceptionalism of the west rethoric.

Reddit is worthless cancer, media is worthless vomit, the UK does not subscribe to good guy exceptionalism (having rather the opposite problem, being absolute in their conviction of their own innate evil).

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

That the same is going on here is saddening. Sorry UK, but give me some evidence. At least a little more than a Soviet formula that is on Wikipedia. Yes Russia is evil, but since when are the Western states any better? Just remembering weapons of mass destruction and Iraq.

All I see is that there is a heating propaganda war between Russia and the West. I refuse to take sides because I won't chose whose lies I believe. I believe instead, as an informed guess, that there will never be any truth in the public about a story involving a double agent, cold war rethorics, Russia, a poison attack that likely only can be orchestrated by a state actor (or one of their agencies). So, we better accept the ignorance, and look at what is happening instead.

Refuse ignorance as nothing short of deliberate ignorance, the war ceases to be a propaganda war once innocents start getting publicly killed in deliberate, dramatic fashion.
Issues of morality are one thing, Moscow's track record of eliminating dissidents internally is business as usual. Yet once Moscow begins interfering in the internal affairs of foreign nations, when it is eliminating citizens under British protection in such a sloppy manner - using nerve agents which even result in British casualties, it is nothing short of a call to war.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Ok, sorry, I will try again in a more civilized way :)
What appears strange to me is how readily a lot of people jump to readily blame Russia. It is obvious to suspect Russia and to ask for clarification, but putting ultimatums out like it's being done now - I just defies common sense to me, to start the cold war so readily again.

This is not the first time Putin has ordered an assassination on UK soil in such a way as to be obvious; I do not doubt that Putin has methods to discreetly assassinate someone, so to be so brazen speaks volumes of his disrespect for the British state. The danger therein lies when there are ambiguities as to the thresholds of both states, of what they are willing to tolerate. One of our police officers may not survive this attack, so you might be able to empathize with why the UK cannot respond with anything but a resumption of the cold war - certainly, I believe Theresa May has not responded nearly harshly enough, and if she has, has not made these responses public yet. The ultimatum in question was rather simple one, obligating Russia with little except an explanation of how one of their weapons ended up getting deployed on British soil. This weapon was only manufactured in the USSR, which means that there are two possibilities: Either the weapon in question was smuggled out during the collapse of the Soviet Union and deployed by a third party, or it was deployed by the Russian federation. To ask Putin how it came to be that this occurred is a courtesy, a last chance to rectify the fuck up. That chance has been lost, sadly.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

What would be the logical procedure is to bring the case to the OPCW for a challenge investigation against Russia, and not doing so can be interpreted as not really being interested in the truth, but rather in the conflict itself. It would be absolutely critical to see Russia's reaction to such a neutral inspection.

I see much talk on Sputnik and RT, both of which are activated media assets of Moscow, of how the UK is disinterested in the truth because they do not want to submit any sample to the OPCW. Of course this is entirely false, the UK is sending a sample to the OPCW (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/uk-send-poison-sample-opcw-nerve-attack-spy-180315080321509.html). Furthermore, while you and I may be alike in our distrust of anything the UK government says, the analysis from our military personnel in chemical warfare research was stellar, and they refrained from speaking on conjecture, only on conclusive evidence. Consequently they have my trust, and we shall see what is concluded with the OPCW. Furthermore, there is something rather hypocritical in Moscow accusing Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia and even the UK (with no evidence!!!) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43443271) of manufacturing the weapon produced by them, when none of them have a track record of murdering Russian defectors under their protection.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

I find it troubling how fast France and Germany went to support the UK in this. It's not surprising though. Because of the UK's confrontation course with Russia, it is a kind of "be with or against us" situation (and then the choice is obvious).

I'm puzzled by the framing that the UK is on a warpath with Russia, collecting France and Germany for a confrontation course. Can provocation be answered with anything but confrontation, when the provocations so brazenly disregard the state involved? It is abundantly clear that Putin holds zero respect in the credibility or seriousness of the Westminster government, thus the safest thing to do is seek confrontation and establish clear boundaries between peace and war. The success of confrontation is such that it deters anyone from making stupid moves under the impression that the other side will not react, once it is clear the other side will react, that impression is removed. I hate this state of affairs, I certainly had hoped that Russia and the UK could return to their historically friendly relations, but it is for the time being never going to be reality for fault of Putin's fears.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Who would have gained from it?
Putin? For his election, absolutely. T. May? Obviously, too. Finally, the country (and other countries) are behind her. And there are other obvious candidates whose agenda would benefit from the outcome of this. And there might be much deeper reasons that will never be obvious to the public, so for us, it is really hard to ask the question for who has which motive, and I would consider it to be far from answered.

Quote

"traitors or those who simply hate their country in their free time": "Don't choose Britain as a place to live."

Public execution before an election to make it clear opposition will be dealt with. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43330498) Pretty obvious benefit for Putin, a public execution to make an example of a traitor. If Theresa May was going to false flag the UK to distract everyone from something (her failing political career, the English child trafficking scandal, inability to actually leave the EU all being possible examples I have heard), I don't think she would be so daft as to false flag in such a way as to have zero plausible deniability. Her claim is that this nerve agent, one which she explicitly identifies, is one that is verifiably Russian in origin. If she was going to false flag the UK, she would pick a generic nerve agent (or really any generic weapon), and she would pick a public target - not someone entirely unknown to the public.

And it is rather tiring as time goes on, continually trying to be cordial and diplomatic with a partner who does little but unleash ransomware upon you. Is cyberwarfare not enough? It has to be chemical warfare too? Saddening times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 04:33:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 17, 2018, 05:45:56 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Ok, sorry, I will try again in a more civilized way :)
What appears strange to me is how readily a lot of people jump to readily blame Russia. It is obvious to suspect Russia and to ask for clarification, but putting ultimatums out like it's being done now - I just defies common sense to me, to start the cold war so readily again.

Looks more like Russia the Putin maffia is the one desperatly trying to reinvigorate the Cold War.

Maybe in this case, Putin is doing it. Overall, I suspect that the project Cold War II is driven from East AND West likewise (Syria looks like a proxy war to me).

Quote from: martinuzz on March 17, 2018, 05:45:56 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

What would be the logical procedure is to bring the case to the OPCW for a challenge investigation against Russia, and not doing so can be interpreted as not really being interested in the truth, but rather in the conflict itself. It would be absolutely critical to see Russia's reaction to such a neutral inspection.

Taking the case to the OPCW for independent investigation is exactly what the UK has done. What do you mean 'not doing so'?

I was looking for that. True, the UK said to provide samples, but there is no mention whether the UK has called for an investigation. As far as I could find out, this is unknown at present.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 17, 2018, 05:45:56 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Who could have done it by mere capability?
I think many countries are able to fabricate Novichock at least in small amounts. Apparently it's been manufactured  by the Soviets in Usbekistan until the 1990s, and the facilities where being dismantled with the help of the United states (wikipedia). To really get any credible insight about where the particular samples were produced, again, such samples should be given to the OPCW.

The UK has already said that they can provide samples to the OPCW. They did not, however, feel inclined to provide samples to Russia, or start a joint investigation with Russia like they tried with the polonium case. The experience there was that the 'cooperation' from Russia mostly turned out to be delaying and denying access.

Yes that seems all we know and all I could find out. I found sources where journalists were wondering whether an investigation had been initiated/requested, but no answer. If you have one, please do provide it!
Diplomats expelled on both sides, ultimatums thrown around, alliances invoked, talk about article 5. Really, an investigation should go first.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2018, 05:25:44 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 04:33:25 am

Yes that seems all we know and all I could find out. I found sources where journalists were wondering whether an investigation had been initiated/requested, but no answer. If you have one, please do provide it!

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/londen-klaagt-russen-aan-om-gifgas-en-voert-zo-de-druk-op-rusland-op~a4580674/)
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/uk-send-poison-sample-opcw-nerve-attack-spy-180315080321509.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/uk-send-poison-sample-opcw-nerve-attack-spy-180315080321509.html)

UK sent their diplomat to the OPCW in the Hague to request an investigation the same day that they asked Russia to come with an explanation.

Evil Knievel, a little scepticism can never hurt, but you are pushing it a bit far mate. I would almost think you are getting paid to spread doubt and confusion.

Also, holy shit, the Russian government must have spent millions on Google, to bump the results of fake news about the UK not complying with OPCW, and conspiracy theories about a false flag operation to the top on most google searches.
Looks like UK still has a lot to learn about the information war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

EDIT up-front: while I was still typing, martinuzz (thanks) supplied that UK actually did start the investigation. Now that is a good thing, and it also means that much of what I wrote is now not any more meaningful. I leave it standing here anyway, because I think that the larger context of the cold war, and how we should not so freely run into one is still something I want to point out (and because it took all my Sunday morning to write up), just be aware that I am already aware that I have been proven wrong. Sorry Loud Whispers.

Let's see now how the investigation goes!

PS: and martinuzz, I know the feeling that someone else seems to be bought on the internet very well, but I assure you it is not the case with me. I just read a lot of Noam Chomsky in the past, who undoubtly inspired a lot of sceptisicm in me (still recommend), I grew up discussing with my children friends how the nuclear war would wipe us all out and how our country would be defended by our allies bombing it into oblivion to stop the advancing soviet troops. Also,
I mostly only post when I have an opinion that would piss people off.
PPS: my wondering about the lack of an OPCW investigation came actually from the Tagesschau (http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/skripal-interview-101.html).

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

Sorry, but I need to express my frustration. Thus thread is usually a last resort where some balanced opinions are being exchanged (sorry, not the opinions are always balanced - some are, but the exchange is usually), but the incident with the russian spy and the nerve gas?
I understand that reddit and media outlets and all main stream is pointing at Russia. It kind of fits with the general "we are the good guys"-exceptionalism of the west rethoric.

Reddit is worthless cancer, media is worthless vomit, the UK does not subscribe to good guy exceptionalism (having rather the opposite problem, being absolute in their conviction of their own innate evil).

I am surprised, I have not perceived the UK media or the UK government being too critical of itself. 

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 16, 2018, 03:31:03 am

That the same is going on here is saddening. Sorry UK, but give me some evidence. At least a little more than a Soviet formula that is on Wikipedia. Yes Russia is evil, but since when are the Western states any better? Just remembering weapons of mass destruction and Iraq.

All I see is that there is a heating propaganda war between Russia and the West. I refuse to take sides because I won't chose whose lies I believe. I believe instead, as an informed guess, that there will never be any truth in the public about a story involving a double agent, cold war rethorics, Russia, a poison attack that likely only can be orchestrated by a state actor (or one of their agencies). So, we better accept the ignorance, and look at what is happening instead.

Refuse ignorance as nothing short of deliberate ignorance, the war ceases to be a propaganda war once innocents start getting publicly killed in deliberate, dramatic fashion.
Issues of morality are one thing, Moscow's track record of eliminating dissidents internally is business as usual. Yet once Moscow begins interfering in the internal affairs of foreign nations, when it is eliminating citizens under British protection in such a sloppy manner - using nerve agents which even result in British casualties, it is nothing short of a call to war.

You are right about the morality of Moscow, all I am saying is that it is not evidence, and that there are plenty of other actors with the capabilities and an interest in this situation with similarly non-existent moral standards (and please don't ask me for examples - I'd rather everybody to list a few as their homework). I'd say between states moral standards are only important to the point over which someone could lose their job (which is one use of shady agencies).

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Ok, sorry, I will try again in a more civilized way :)
What appears strange to me is how readily a lot of people jump to readily blame Russia. It is obvious to suspect Russia and to ask for clarification, but putting ultimatums out like it's being done now - I just defies common sense to me, to start the cold war so readily again.

This is not the first time Putin has ordered an assassination on UK soil in such a way as to be obvious; I do not doubt that Putin has methods to discreetly assassinate someone, so to be so brazen speaks volumes of his disrespect for the British state. The danger therein lies when there are ambiguities as to the thresholds of both states, of what they are willing to tolerate. One of our police officers may not survive this attack, so you might be able to empathize with why the UK cannot respond with anything but a resumption of the cold war - certainly, I believe Theresa May has not responded nearly harshly enough, and if she has, has not made these responses public yet. The ultimatum in question was rather simple one, obligating Russia with little except an explanation of how one of their weapons ended up getting deployed on British soil. This weapon was only manufactured in the USSR, which means that there are two possibilities: Either the weapon in question was smuggled out during the collapse of the Soviet Union and deployed by a third party, or it was deployed by the Russian federation. To ask Putin how it came to be that this occurred is a courtesy, a last chance to rectify the fuck up. That chance has been lost, sadly.

This is one possibility, and if it is the truth I completely agree with you, but it may also be what you are made to believe. At present, I do not think you need to be a conspiracy theorist to see how other scenarios also have at least moderate plausability. Never forget the last time Nato was dragged into a war based on lies, there even was fabricated evidence. You can believe what you want of course, but if you really wonder what the truth is, I'd suggest to wait a bit more.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

What would be the logical procedure is to bring the case to the OPCW for a challenge investigation against Russia, and not doing so can be interpreted as not really being interested in the truth, but rather in the conflict itself. It would be absolutely critical to see Russia's reaction to such a neutral inspection.

I see much talk on Sputnik and RT, both of which are activated media assets of Moscow, of how the UK is disinterested in the truth because they do not want to submit any sample to the OPCW. Of course this is entirely false, the UK is sending a sample to the OPCW (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/uk-send-poison-sample-opcw-nerve-attack-spy-180315080321509.html). Furthermore, while you and I may be alike in our distrust of anything the UK government says, the analysis from our military personnel in chemical warfare research was stellar, and they refrained from speaking on conjecture, only on conclusive evidence. Consequently they have my trust, and we shall see what is concluded with the OPCW. Furthermore, there is something rather hypocritical in Moscow accusing Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia and even the UK (with no evidence!!!) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43443271) of manufacturing the weapon produced by them, when none of them have a track record of murdering Russian defectors under their protection.

Yes, I learned that, but I am still waiting to find out whether actually an investigation has been initiated by the UK. But I believe we will hear about it soon enough if it is the case because:

Quote

6. If applicable, the Director-General shall notify the State Party on whose territory an investigation has been requested. The Director-General shall also notify other States Parties if access to their territories might be required during the investigation. (https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/verification-annex/part-xi/)

For the rest, as usual Russia is constant propaganda and misinformation mode. No surprise.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

I find it troubling how fast France and Germany went to support the UK in this. It's not surprising though. Because of the UK's confrontation course with Russia, it is a kind of "be with or against us" situation (and then the choice is obvious).

I'm puzzled by the framing that the UK is on a warpath with Russia, collecting France and Germany for a confrontation course. Can provocation be answered with anything but confrontation, when the provocations so brazenly disregard the state involved? It is abundantly clear that Putin holds zero respect in the credibility or seriousness of the Westminster government, thus the safest thing to do is seek confrontation and establish clear boundaries between peace and war. The success of confrontation is such that it deters anyone from making stupid moves under the impression that the other side will not react, once it is clear the other side will react, that impression is removed. I hate this state of affairs, I certainly had hoped that Russia and the UK could return to their historically friendly relations, but it is for the time being never going to be reality for fault of Putin's fears.

I fear you are right. I think it is terrifying to live in such a situation with a direct neighbour and if a cold war turns too hot, it will be good for the UK to be an island, but it won't help continental Europe. However, as implied before, I think the actions of Nato are equally responsible for this mess as is Putin's behaviour, and the reason in the background is an overlap in the respective desired spheres of influence. Russia has interests beyond its borders and Nato's interests end no earlier than Russia's borders.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 17, 2018, 09:10:17 pm

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 17, 2018, 05:08:33 am

Who would have gained from it?
Putin? For his election, absolutely. T. May? Obviously, too. Finally, the country (and other countries) are behind her. And there are other obvious candidates whose agenda would benefit from the outcome of this. And there might be much deeper reasons that will never be obvious to the public, so for us, it is really hard to ask the question for who has which motive, and I would consider it to be far from answered.

Quote

"traitors or those who simply hate their country in their free time": "Don't choose Britain as a place to live."

Public execution before an election to make it clear opposition will be dealt with. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43330498) Pretty obvious benefit for Putin, a public execution to make an example of a traitor. If Theresa May was going to false flag the UK to distract everyone from something (her failing political career, the English child trafficking scandal, inability to actually leave the EU all being possible examples I have heard), I don't think she would be so daft as to false flag in such a way as to have zero plausible deniability. Her claim is that this nerve agent, one which she explicitly identifies, is one that is verifiably Russian in origin. If she was going to false flag the UK, she would pick a generic nerve agent (or really any generic weapon), and she would pick a public target - not someone entirely unknown to the public.

And it is rather tiring as time goes on, continually trying to be cordial and diplomatic with a partner who does little but unleash ransomware upon you. Is cyberwarfare not enough? It has to be chemical warfare too? Saddening times.

Yes and no, as I already said above. I think we are in a cold war-like phase and both sides act correspondingly. And if there will be a war, countries are being destroyed and people are dying and both sides won't care about them, we can thank the elites on both sides because they did not manage to get along in their greed for power. Just ask around in Ukraine or Syria, those people already know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2018, 07:29:15 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

PS: and martinuzz, I know the feeling that someone else seems to be bought on the internet very well, but I assure you it is not the case with me. I just read a lot of Noam Chomsky in the past, who undoubtly inspired a lot of sceptisicm in me (still recommend), I grew up discussing with my children friends how the nuclear war would wipe us all out and how our country would be defended by our allies bombing it into oblivion to stop the advancing soviet troops. Also,
I mostly only post when I have an opinion that would piss people off.

Fair enough. I am aware of Chomsky. I even used to be known for excessively quoting him  :D
Although I have to say I do not agree with him on everything he says.

My posts also don't have 'pleasing the crowd' as their prime objective. I wouldn't say I post to piss people off though, that's just not a good reason to post.
Nothing wrong with trying to incite people to pause and think about a subject by inserting an unfavourable opinion though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2018, 09:33:04 am

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 04:33:25 am

Maybe in this case, Putin is doing it. Overall, I suspect that the project Cold War II is driven from East AND West likewise (Syria looks like a proxy war to me).

On this I agree. Everyone is familiar with Russian security apparatus being in control of the state, but similar influence is largely ignored, unknown or even supported in Western countries. CIA agents employed by Trump to be senior ministers, CIA operatives proudly running their credentials to run for office, jeopardizing their political impartiality - and bringing their particular views on US pre-eminence and how to maintain that hegemony on the world stage (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/10/18/daily-202-ex-cia-officers-running-for-congress-as-democrats/59e6b25b30fb041a74e75de5/?utm_term=.cebed47d8055) (which despite its claims of stability, usually entails destabilizing every country which moves towards a multipolar world), shit's rather fucked.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 04:33:25 am

I was looking for that. True, the UK said to provide samples, but there is no mention whether the UK has called for an investigation. As far as I could find out, this is unknown at present.

Quote

The UK government has asked the OPCW to investigate the use of novichok in the attempted murder of the Russian former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury. Theresa May said in a Commons statement on Wednesday: “We are working with the police to enable the OPCW to independently verify our analysis.”

Well they didn't exactly send the sample to be a museum piece (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/14/nerve-agent-novichok-produced-russia-site-expert) :P

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

Sorry Loud Whispers.
Let's see now how the investigation goes!

No worries fam

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

PS: and martinuzz, I know the feeling that someone else seems to be bought on the internet very well, but I assure you it is not the case with me.

At least paid shills aren't doing it for free lol, but that's another thing entirely

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

I grew up discussing with my children friends how the nuclear war would wipe us all out and how our country would be defended by our allies bombing it into oblivion to stop the advancing soviet troops.

Glory of freedom bombing! But this is a rather interesting conundrum, particularly since I heard it both ways. Of the French who believed that NATO would prefer USSR occupation of Europe to a nuclear war, of the German who believed that occupation by the USSR would be preferable to its vigorous defence - would the gulag leave more survivors?

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

I am surprised, I have not perceived the UK media or the UK government being too critical of itself.

UK media is critical of the UK government, but not critical of UK media. The UK government is critical of its internal opposition, but not when mutual crimes are involved. Too much of both UK media and UK government hold much of the UK people in disregard, and at times even contempt :<

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

I'd say between states moral standards are only important to the point over which someone could lose their job (which is one use of shady agencies).

As an aside, between states moral standards are of paramount importance. States exist for as long as people believe in the moral superiority of the state, especially if it has been divorced from the institutions of the past. Remove moral superiority, remove historical institutions, and all you have left is force, and that's when things fall apart

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

This is one possibility, and if it is the truth I completely agree with you, but it may also be what you are made to believe. At present, I do not think you need to be a conspiracy theorist to see how other scenarios also have at least moderate plausability. Never forget the last time Nato was dragged into a war based on lies, there even was fabricated evidence. You can believe what you want of course, but if you really wonder what the truth is, I'd suggest to wait a bit more.

The spreading of disinformation by Russian media apparatus or their ministries suggests to me that it'd be foolish to attribute equal probabilities to which is true. Without evidence of a false flag or mafia hit, Putin's disinformation and threats to defectors speaks volumes.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

I fear you are right. I think it is terrifying to live in such a situation with a direct neighbour and if a cold war turns too hot, it will be good for the UK to be an island, but it won't help continental Europe. However, as implied before, I think the actions of Nato are equally responsible for this mess as is Putin's behaviour, and the reason in the background is an overlap in the respective desired spheres of influence. Russia has interests beyond its borders and Nato's interests end no earlier than Russia's borders.

No point fearing a hot war tbh, Russia is much too outgunned by its neighbours. It'd have a tough time dealing with its security concerns in Finland, Poland, Ukraine and China before you factor in any of the major powers like Italy or Germany, never mind France or the UK. And this is obviously ignoring the American juggernaut. (https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.asp) The actions Putin has taken has benefited him, allowing him to borrow the language of a superpower. Why else does he talk so much of his nuclear arsenal? It is a yearn for prestige lost with the collapse of the USSR, a desire to recapture it without provoking conflict with so many foes. Furthermore, it should seem readily apparent how self-defeating Russia's foreign policy is if it wished to avoid NATO encroachment. The nations joining NATO or the European alliances, are banding together voluntarily because they fear Russian invasion. Waging war against your neighbours to stop them from joining alliances against you is only providing a bigger list of reasons why they should seek protection against you. The UK's status as an island is only useful in so far as maritime defence is assured; the English channel is very narrow, D-Days can go both ways. Should the continent fall, the islands would be in a rather perilous position, thus I don't think the Eastern Europeans need fear anything but the ineptitude of our Prime Ministers when it comes to defence commitments.

Quote from: Evil Knievel on March 18, 2018, 05:47:57 am

Yes and no, as I already said above. I think we are in a cold war-like phase and both sides act correspondingly. And if there will be a war, countries are being destroyed and people are dying and both sides won't care about them, we can thank the elites on both sides because they did not manage to get along in their greed for power. Just ask around in Ukraine or Syria, those people already know.

While lamenting the pointless destruction of Syria, I do think Ukraine is a poor example. While I further disagree with the employment of revolutions as a useful tool for advancement, or in the support of revolutions supported by particularly potent Westerners, Yanukovych's corruption was extraordinary even for an ex-Soviet nation and his strategy was alike Russia's - being useful only for alienating the majority of people by turning an ally into a common enemy. It's how you turn a country such as Ukraine, the birthplace of Russian civilization, from a populace pro-Russia into a populace inviting NATO and the EU to its borders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on March 18, 2018, 10:11:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2018, 09:33:04 am

*snip* before you factor in any of the major powers like Italy or Germany, *snip*

Listing germany as a major power is kinda funny. We may be in terms of economics, but germany has no military to speak of.
We own something like 250 MBTs, of which about 90 are actually working (more or less, they might still break if you tried to actually move them), about a dozen semi-obsolescent ships (a mix of frigates and corvettes) held together with duct tape and 6 submarines of which none were seaworthy back in january.
One of my stepdads friends was a Oberfeldwebel (Bundeswehr NCO), until a few years ago, and he jokes that in an emergency his unit would have had to do it like the soviets back in WW2, because they usually had more people then useable rifles.

The whole of germany could probably be invaded by a single american redneck village.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2018, 10:19:14 am

Germany and Italy are unofficial minor nuclear powers as per the NATO nuclear sharing policy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 18, 2018, 10:36:54 am

@LW: I thought Muscovy was the birthplace of Russian civilization? At least that's where the modern state of Russia began.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on March 18, 2018, 11:14:03 am

Quote from: Ispil on March 18, 2018, 10:43:59 am

It's not called "Kievan Rus" for no reason. Moscow might be the birthplace of a unified Russian state, but Kiev is the birthplace of the notion of a Russian state in the first place.

And to add, the first of the Rurikids, Rurik himself, made their home in Novgorod/Holmgard, which became the second-most-important city of the Rus before the republic.  Moscow is a Johnny-come-lately, risen from a minor princely state as taxmen for the Mongols and parleying that into dominance over the northern Russian states. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2018, 04:14:11 pm

Meanwhile the Germans are faced with what is possibly the most catastrophic construction project ever.
In 2011, Berlin was supposed to open a new airport.
But because of construction errors, missed deadlines, fired project leaders and other troubles, Berlin still doesn't have a new airport.

Lufthansa chairman Thorsten Dirks stirred up a small riot today when he commented that 'BER construction site will have to be completely torn down and built anew, because the materials used in it's construction have aged too much'.

Lufthansa later came with a press release stating thet Dirks didn't mean it literally.
He was exaggerating, but there is some foundation for his comment: the 750 large monitors that are spread around the building will need to be replaced, because their technology is too far behind.

The project was initially estimated to cost 2 billion euros.
So far, 7 billion euros have been spent. The new opnening date for the airport has been set to october 2020, but experts already say that this deadline cannot be met either.

The German media have redubbed Flughafen Berlin Brandenburg 'Germany's most expensive contruction pit'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 19, 2018, 08:34:07 pm

Quote

I think the actions of Nato are equally responsible for this mess as is Putin's behaviour, and the reason in the background is an overlap in the respectiv

I’m curious to know which NATO actions are responsible for the deployment of Russian chemical weapons against civilians in the UK, in detail, with a list of specific reasons and explanations beyond “the Russians are scaredy scaredy that nato moved some armies back into the border countries after Russia invaded yet another small nation”.

Every step of the way the growing tension is caused by Russian aggression, Russian hostility, and a Russian basic fucking refusal to play ball with the rest of the western world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 02:34:52 pm

Poland now claims 685 billion euros from Germany for damages done between 1939 and 1945.
Polish minister of Foreign Affairs Jacek Czaputowicz stated that the formal request will follow this year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2018, 04:10:17 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 02:34:52 pm

Poland now claims 685 billion euros from Germany for damages done between 1939 and 1945.
Polish minister of Foreign Affairs Jacek Czaputowicz stated that the formal request will follow this year.

Didn't Germany already finish paying reparations decades ago?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 04:20:23 pm

Not exactly. A deal was made after ww2. Poland now says they weren't part of that deal, because it was Soviet Poland that signed it. The deal was originally made in 1953, made again in 1970, and renewed again after the Berlin Wall went down.

After the war, the liberated countries and their allies realized all too well that making Germany pay war reparations would leave Germany a third world country, which would have negatively affected all European economies, and would probably have lead to a ww3 sooner than later (because resentment over war reparations after ww1 was one of the main reasons Hitler rose to power so easily). So deals were made which released Germany of most or all inter-state post war debt (and in fact, many European and US millions were pumped into the West-german economy after the war to help turn it into the economic powerhouse it is now).

Let's just say that if that deal was never made, Poland would most likely still be Soviet Poland now.

Private persons have claimed damages from Germany though. Germany paid 9.2 billion euros in personal damages, of which 1.6 billion went to Polish claimants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 22, 2018, 05:39:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 04:20:23 pm

After the war, the liberated countries and their allies realized all too well that making Germany pay war reparations would leave Germany a third world country,

And in typical German fashion they are now returning the favour by turning Greece into a third world country over debts. Go Germany!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2018, 06:30:48 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 22, 2018, 05:39:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 04:20:23 pm

After the war, the liberated countries and their allies realized all too well that making Germany pay war reparations would leave Germany a third world country,

And in typical German fashion they are now returning the favour by turning Greece into a third world country over debts. Go Germany!

And here the UK only finished paying off its WWI debt 3 years ago and is still paying off its WWII debt. Turns out you can set the world on fire, lose, have everyone pay you for burning the world, then use that money to buy everyone who defeated you xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on March 22, 2018, 07:18:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 22, 2018, 05:39:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 04:20:23 pm

After the war, the liberated countries and their allies realized all too well that making Germany pay war reparations would leave Germany a third world country,

And in typical German fashion they are now returning the favour by turning Greece into a third world country over debts. Go Germany!

Why do you say this when it was the EU that bailed out Greece with hundreds of billions of euros?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 22, 2018, 09:14:01 pm

Quote from: Antioch on March 22, 2018, 07:18:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 22, 2018, 05:39:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2018, 04:20:23 pm

After the war, the liberated countries and their allies realized all too well that making Germany pay war reparations would leave Germany a third world country,

And in typical German fashion they are now returning the favour by turning Greece into a third world country over debts. Go Germany!

Why do you say this when it was the EU that bailed out Greece with hundreds of billions of euros?

With caveats that they basically have to stop helping their people out with the shock of an exploded economy by implementing ridiculous austerity measures. People won elections there on campaign promises of telling the EU to fuck off.

Edit: in other news, 3 months back, the some UK politicians creamed their pants when the UK announced that blue passports would be returning (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42443253). This was big news, despite the fact the EU had no great influence on the decision to make the change to the current burgundy one.

Today, the company that makes the burgundy ones is going to appeal the decision to award the manufacturing contract for the blue passports to a French-Dutch company (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43489462).

Let’s make a show of taking back our independence and sovereignty by giving money to the foreigners we’re in the process of taking back that independence and sovereignty from. You know, the ones that forced us to throw open the contract to EU companies in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 22, 2018, 09:55:04 pm

Make it in America instead! lol :)

(not actually being serious, the shipping costs wouldn't be worth it anyway)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2018, 03:42:42 am

After being pressed by May to do so, the EU withdrew their ambassador from Russia, in reaction to the Skripal chemical attack.
Past saturday, May had asked that, but Greece, Bulgary and Hungary refused to point fingers of blame at Russia.

Apparently the other EU members have now managed to convince those three countries that the EU should do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2018, 06:59:10 am

In Trébes, France, a hostage situation is ongoing in a supermarket.
An armed man entered the supermarket and took 8 people hostage, while swearing allegiance to IS.

According to the mayor of Trébes, there are 2 casualties. It is unclear if they are dead or injured.
Furthermore, all hostages are said to have left the building, leaving only a single police officer and the hostage taker inside.

The building is surrounded by police, and the hostage taker is said to be still armed.

French authorities are treating it as a terrorist attack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2018, 10:49:27 am

The assailant has been killed by the police. Three innocent people were killed, 2 in the supermarket, and one before the hostage situation, the driver of a car that was stolen by the terrorist on his way to the supermarket. Three people were wounded, amongst whom 1 police officer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2018, 04:05:58 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 22, 2018, 09:14:01 pm

With caveats that they basically have to stop helping their people out with the shock of an exploded economy by implementing ridiculous austerity measures. People won elections there on campaign promises of telling the EU to fuck off.

Yeah it was a pretty poisonous deal, pushing Greece further into debt, liquidating their assets to repay their debts and making it legally impossible for their situation to improve so they can get out of debt

Quote from: hector13 on March 22, 2018, 09:14:01 pm

Edit: in other news, 3 months back, the some UK politicians creamed their pants when the UK announced that blue passports would be returning (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42443253). This was big news, despite the fact the EU had no great influence on the decision to make the change to the current burgundy one.

Today, the company that makes the burgundy ones is going to appeal the decision to award the manufacturing contract for the blue passports to a French-Dutch company (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43489462).

Let’s make a show of taking back our independence and sovereignty by giving money to the foreigners we’re in the process of taking back that independence and sovereignty from. You know, the ones that forced us to throw open the contract to EU companies in the first place.

I'd rather have a good reality than make a show out our nation. The Olympics was fucking dismal, I don't want Olympic brexit, a sensible sense of order is much more preferable. Actual independence, actual sovereignty - all these things I would prefer over a show of independence, a show of sovereignty. Nothing wrong with the French doing our passports, they won it fair and square offering the UK taxpayer £120M in savings (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/22/contract-to-print-uk-passports-abroad-will-save-120m), and despite all the claims that Leave voters want to strategic bomb the European continent, I rather think it is not so, and Europeans remain popular in the UK.
This of course belies Theresa May believing a show of brexit will satisfy the UK populace instead of action, in the same way you'd dangle keys in front of an easily distracted toddler. "I know we should've left the EU last year and Germany will probably leave the EU before the UK does, but look - blue passports, new sterling notes! How British, vote for me."
It's the most shallow tokens of competence she could've offered.
Also if you want tokens of cynical symbolism of sovereignty over actual sovereignty, forget passports - see the Westminster government talk of "global Britain" whilst deleting her global capabilities. They're even willing to cut the Royal Marines' amphibious capabilities, completely missing the fucking point of an amphibious unit. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/04/royal-marines-cuts-militarily-illiterate-say-mps/) Hence why you can see I am not too bothered by saving money in unimportant symbols, where actual capability is being atrophied in favour of "hurr durr we put the Queen on our money vote for us we're so British btw fuck the British." Corbyn & Mogg look sexier by the second

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 24, 2018, 03:14:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 23, 2018, 10:49:27 am

The assailant has been killed by the police. Three innocent people were killed, 2 in the supermarket, and one before the hostage situation, the driver of a car that was stolen by the terrorist on his way to the supermarket. Three people were wounded, amongst whom 1 police officer.

Fourth victime, Arnaud Beltrame, a 44-year old French police officer that offered to swap himself for one of the hostage and was killed by the terrorist. He had let his phone on, tje bullets that injured him started the police assault.

You have to admire guys like that, I'm getting really strong St. Maximilian Kolbe vibe here. This is what a hero looks like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 24, 2018, 05:31:10 am

Sad. I hope the French state will provide well for his bereaved. True hero.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2018, 08:28:09 pm

*barges in with American Politics related thing* (lol)

Question here, for gun laws, do other countries do it patchwork with states (or equivalent, like provinces, adminstrative regions, etc) and more local like we do in the US or are they more whole country?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 24, 2018, 08:57:36 pm

Well, the Dunblane massacre in Scotland fucked up gun rights in the UK (fcking lol) in the mid-90s, so at least in the UK it’s a colonies-wide thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on March 25, 2018, 04:28:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 24, 2018, 08:28:09 pm

*barges in with American Politics related thing* (lol)

Question here, for gun laws, do other countries do it patchwork with states (or equivalent, like provinces, adminstrative regions, etc) and more local like we do in the US or are they more whole country?

Nah, AFAIK it's always country-wide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 25, 2018, 06:38:11 am

Puigdemont has been arrested at the German-Danish border. German police is not thinking what they should do witrh him, since Spain has issued an EU-wide order for his arrest.

Last week, Spain decided to prosecute Puigdemont and about 20 other politicians for rebellion, instead of the milder incitement. They are all facing 30 years in prison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2018, 01:40:46 pm

In rare good news from the Swedish legal system, today two brothers was declared innocent of the 20-year old murder of a 4-year-old (https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/det-kunde-inte-bli-en-battre-fodelsedag-an-sa-har/). The brothers, who were 7 and 5 at the time of the murder, where basically coerced into admission through very harsh interrogations, including keeping them in a room for many hours and not letting their parents be with them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 27, 2018, 01:51:34 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 25, 2018, 06:38:11 am

Puigdemont has been arrested at the German-Danish border. German police is not thinking what they should do witrh him, since Spain has issued an EU-wide order for his arrest.

Last week, Spain decided to prosecute Puigdemont and about 20 other politicians for rebellion, instead of the milder incitement. They are all facing 30 years in prison.

Has Germany decided it Catalan man will be given a fair trial in Spain?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 27, 2018, 03:13:28 pm

German tribunals still have to make a decision.

I have the unpleasant impression that much of this has been talked behind the scenes.  The goverment has been acting surprisingly confidently//aggressively in many different fronts in the last few days. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2018, 04:58:42 am

In UK news, it seems Corbyn's political career is kill
'No more' politicians serving bankers.' (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/corbyn-politicians-serving-bankers-180222100049412.html) - Corbyn, last month
'In a speech that will send shivers through the banking industry, Mr Corbyn vowed that the next Labour government would be "the first in 40 years to stand up for the real economy" and combat the "financial wizardry" running through the City. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/20/corbyn-threatens-make-bankers-servants-industry-fresh-attack/)' - Also Corbyn, threatening the finance wizards with his sorcerous control of Laor.
Of course if you search Corbyn now, all you will find are swathes of British, US and Israeli media attacking Corbyn for antisemitism, over a facebook post made 6 years ago in which he defended the destruction of an artist's mural. Hilariously, the Times of Israel offered fairer descriptions of the mural (https://www.timesofisrael.com/facing-jewish-community-protest-corbyn-apologizes-for-labour-anti-semitism/) than even the BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, Times or Daily Mail, as the latter all simply describe it as an antisemitic mural, where the Times of Israel points out only some of the bankers in the mural are Jewish; all other outlets neglect to mention that on the monopoly board there are the Rothschilds, Rockefellers and Morgans, with only the majority being gentiles - but this is nevertheless, anti-semitic, because as our lobby groups say, being anti-banker is a code for anti-semite. Or worse still, that in the name of progressive socialism, Jewish bankers must be exempt from criticism when criticizing bankers! The lack of self-awareness is astounding, if you take the view that this is about anti-semitism. The commies here think it's a transparent attempt to take Corbyn down for his pro-Palestinian beliefs, and he's committed political suicide by apologizing to groups who are simply looking to drag him into the dirt before the local elections:

Quote

An Israeli embassy official who plotted to “take down” MPs regarded as hostile has also set up a number of political organisations in the UK that operated as though entirely independent.
Shai Masot was filmed covertly as he boasted about establishing several groups, at least one of which was intended to influence Labour party policy, while appearing to obscure their links to Israel.
At a meeting last July, Masot explains that he had the idea for a group called Young Conservative Friends of Israel in 2015, and wanted to set up a Young Labour Friends of Israel at that time. “When I tried to do the same in Labour they had a crisis back then with Corbyn. So instead of that I took a delegation to Israel … I took a Fabians group to Israel,” he says.
Masot also says in the footage of that meeting that he does not wish to see Jeremy Corbyn win the leadership contest with Owen Smith. During another meeting, he describes Corbyn as “a crazy leader”.
 “I would prefer that the party will not stay with Corbyn,” he says. Referring to a number of Labour MPs who had recently visited the West Bank, he adds: “Some of them are against Corbyn, so who knows?”

The UK government at the time accepted the Israeli government's apology that Shai Masot was acting independently, despite protests from UK MPs that it was transparently obvious he was acting under the authority of the Israeli government. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour)

What a spicy meatball

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 28, 2018, 06:29:45 am

please be real

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 28, 2018, 11:11:31 am

Do you want Maoist guerilla insurgency, UK? Because this is how you get Maoist guerilla insurgency.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 28, 2018, 11:21:17 am

Theres also the whole thing with Corbyn breaking from the rest of his party and going soft on Russia when they voted for condemnations or something against Russia for the ex-spy attempted assassination.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 28, 2018, 11:56:28 am

No, the political side of his party just don’t like him and apparently will take any half-decent opportunity to tell people about it.

He didn’t quite condemn the Russians hard enough for their liking, and they like to fight each other instead of the opposition, so like, 19 of them signed a letter saying Theresa May’s course of action was good. Maybe more since then, not sure. She did what was basically expected of her, given the limited options she had.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2018, 12:59:10 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 28, 2018, 11:11:31 am

Do you want Maoist guerilla insurgency, UK? Because this is how you get Maoist guerilla insurgency.

inb4 Jacorbyns storm the tower of London

Quote from: smjjames on March 28, 2018, 11:21:17 am

Theres also the whole thing with Corbyn breaking from the rest of his party and going soft on Russia when they voted for condemnations or something against Russia for the ex-spy attempted assassination.

There's a couple of things which are miring Corbyn in so much shit he can't take a single step forwards

• Antisemitism (as detailed above, but also part of a much larger series of antisemitism cases involving Corbyn and his associates)
• The European Union (he sacked Owen Smith for breaking shadow cabinet consensus, calling for a secondrendum on leaving the European Union, after Owen Smith refused to resign).
• Russia (as his request for May to prove Russia was behind the attack before launching sanctions against Russia sounded like defending Russia).

It's notable that after Theresa May's electoral Stalingrad, Jeremy Corbyn was unable to capitalize on anything because any success his part made lead to nowhere but more infighting and attempts to force his resignation. Corbyn saying he'd be PM by 2018 seems more and more distant, as Labour MPs have stood by their word they'd rather lose seats than lose the party. An interesting case to study imo about how a socialist in a socialist party can be undone for being socialist

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 28, 2018, 04:40:14 pm

Russia now demands that the UK proves that they didn't poison Skripal and their daughter themselves, or they will 'hold the UK responsible for an attack on Russian civilians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2018, 05:26:43 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 28, 2018, 04:40:14 pm

Russia now demands that the UK proves that they didn't poison Skripal and their daughter themselves, or they will 'hold the UK responsible for an attack on Russian civilians.

This statement is deliberately as prime dickheadish as possible on purpose: Putin is counting on Westerners to overreact and go on the offensive in response to being threatened to prove a negative or else. Why?

Quote

Protesters held banners reading “Bribes kill children” and “We demand a real investigation”, and some chanted “Down with the cowardly regime!”, “Putin - resign!”, “What did the children die for?” and “We are sick and tired of him”, meaning Putin.
“It was the regime that caused the deaths ... The criminal regime should resign,” said 43-year-old Innokentii, who works in the financial sector.
“The most awful thing is that no one is going to be really punished for this,” said Kirill, 28. “We’ve had that many times before.”

He wants Westerners to distract Russians for him. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-fire-kemerovo/amid-mounting-anger-at-scene-of-mall-fire-putin-pledges-action-idUSKBN1H30K5)
Best thing the West can do, the UK especially, is continue calmly with the investigation and counter Russia with as little media fanfare as possible. Keep things simple and allow Russians to dwell on Putin's ability to reform or rot Russia. In simpler terms: Tell Boris Johnson to go on holiday for the next two weeks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 28, 2018, 08:17:58 pm

Was going to say he’s KGB and that’s why he’s doing this figurative sleight of hand nonsense, but the same argument could be made about politicians.

I would quite like Theresa May to just say “well, we gain nothing from his death considering he was essentially given to us in a spy trade, and we gain nothing from trying to blame it on Russia ‘cause you’re already being hammered by sanctions over Crimea.”

Only issue is hems good at this game, so he’d have answers ready. Just go completely mad then “sure, we did it, do you have a problem bruv?”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 05, 2018, 01:56:21 pm

Dutch hospitals and insurance companies join forces to combat excessive medicine pricing by big pharma.
The Academic Medical Centre of Amsterdam has replicated a drug (CDCA) for an extremely rare disease (hereditary metabolism disorder CTX), of which the price was recently increased by the manufacturer to 160 thousand euros per patient per year.
By using cheap raw materials imported from CHina, the AMC managed to reproduce the drug for only 1/8th of the price, bringing it down to 20 thousand euros per patient per year.

Insurance companies have now decided that they will only pay for the cheap version of the drug.

The drug in question has already been used to treat CTX for forty years, but because it was originally registered as a drug for bladder stones , and not CTX, and has not been used to treat those for a long time because there are better drugs for it, pharma company Leadiant saw the opportunity to register CDCA as an 'orphan drug' with the EU drug authority EMA. With this new status for an ancient drug, Leadiant acquired monopoly for ten years, meaning other producers are not allowed to sell the drug for that particular disease. With the new status in their pocket, Leadiant raised the price from 40 thousand to 160 thousand euros.

The case hit the media and public outrage ensued. Now, with the blessing of our parliament and government, hospitals and academical medical centres were given carte blanche to disregard the monopoly and produce the drug themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2018, 04:29:24 pm

based euro social healthcare

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 06, 2018, 08:10:49 pm

The WW2 memorial committee in the Hague has banned fat people from being member of the honorary guard during the national memorial service on the 4th of may, because 'buttons jumping off uniforms distract the public too much from the ceremony.'

Volunteers that were allowed the honorary duty before, but have been demoted to catering service now beause they are fat are outraged.
"In the Netherlands you are not allowed to discriminate", says the wife of one disappointed volunteer. "But on the 4th of may, the day that we remember our war heroes that fought for our freedom, the memorial committee discriminates against people that they believe have a slightly too big belly? What's next, ban people with big noses?"

More outrage likely to follow when people read the news in the morning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 06, 2018, 08:28:30 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 06, 2018, 08:10:49 pm

The WW2 memorial committee in the Hague has banned fat people from being member of the honorary guard during the national memorial service on the 4th of may, because 'buttons jumping off uniforms distract the public too much from the ceremony.'

Volunteers that were allowed the honorary duty before, but have been demoted to catering service now beause they are fat are outraged.
"In the Netherlands you are not allowed to discriminate", says the wife of one disappointed volunteer. "But on the 4th of may, the day that we remember our war heroes that fought for our freedom, the memorial committee discriminates against people that they believe have a slightly too big belly? What's next, ban people with big noses?"

More outrage likely to follow when people read the news in the morning.

Why not actually fit them for uniforms? If uniforms are so one-size as it implies, then I bet there have been people who were on the honorary guard whose uniforms were clearly too big for them.

Also, the reason they gave sounds like something that'd happen in the Three Stooges or other comedies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 07, 2018, 07:49:31 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 06, 2018, 08:28:30 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 06, 2018, 08:10:49 pm

The WW2 memorial committee in the Hague has banned fat people from being member of the honorary guard during the national memorial service on the 4th of may, because 'buttons jumping off uniforms distract the public too much from the ceremony.'

Volunteers that were allowed the honorary duty before, but have been demoted to catering service now beause they are fat are outraged.
"In the Netherlands you are not allowed to discriminate", says the wife of one disappointed volunteer. "But on the 4th of may, the day that we remember our war heroes that fought for our freedom, the memorial committee discriminates against people that they believe have a slightly too big belly? What's next, ban people with big noses?"

More outrage likely to follow when people read the news in the morning.

Why not actually fit them for uniforms? If uniforms are so one-size as it implies, then I bet there have been people who were on the honorary guard whose uniforms were clearly too big for them.

Also, the reason they gave sounds like something that'd happen in the Three Stooges or other comedies.

Much easier to just replace them with volunteers who aren't obese; War Memorials should not be about earning village prestige for yourself, it is about honouring the fallen. It is perhaps a sign of the impotence of the West, that it can no longer find fit volunteers for even its memorial services :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 07, 2018, 10:46:08 am

Crap. Van hit pedestrians in Münster, unknown number of confirmed dead, and at least 30 wounded. The driver commited suicide. Police say they are treating it as a terror attack.

EDIT: 4 people dead, van drove into a café's front terrace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 07, 2018, 03:51:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 07, 2018, 07:49:31 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 06, 2018, 08:28:30 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 06, 2018, 08:10:49 pm

The WW2 memorial committee in the Hague has banned fat people from being member of the honorary guard during the national memorial service on the 4th of may, because 'buttons jumping off uniforms distract the public too much from the ceremony.'

Volunteers that were allowed the honorary duty before, but have been demoted to catering service now beause they are fat are outraged.
"In the Netherlands you are not allowed to discriminate", says the wife of one disappointed volunteer. "But on the 4th of may, the day that we remember our war heroes that fought for our freedom, the memorial committee discriminates against people that they believe have a slightly too big belly? What's next, ban people with big noses?"

More outrage likely to follow when people read the news in the morning.

Why not actually fit them for uniforms? If uniforms are so one-size as it implies, then I bet there have been people who were on the honorary guard whose uniforms were clearly too big for them.

Also, the reason they gave sounds like something that'd happen in the Three Stooges or other comedies.

Much easier to just replace them with volunteers who aren't obese; War Memorials should not be about earning village prestige for yourself, it is about honouring the fallen. It is perhaps a sign of the impotence of the West, that it can no longer find fit volunteers for even its memorial services :(

Ah yes, it is of course vitally important to reject any overweight people from being allowed to honour the memory of the dead. Only fit and healthy people should be permitted to show respect for their heritage and the fallen, and everyone else should be thrown out and alienated. This is totally a good thing which will not drain the ever-shrinking pools of people willing to dedicate their time to the past for free, or contribute to a lack of pride in their country which is the sort of thing you’re usually up in arms over dirty europoor youth too busy with halo to care about their nation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 07, 2018, 04:54:17 pm

There have been found no links to terrorism for the 48 year old German van driver. According to regional news broadcasting services NDR and WDR, the man was known to have psychiatric problems, but authorities have not confirmed that. His house is being searched for explosives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2018, 03:15:32 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 07, 2018, 03:51:37 pm

Ah yes, it is of course vitally important to reject any overweight people from being allowed to honour the memory of the dead. Only fit and healthy people should be permitted to show respect for their heritage and the fallen, and everyone else should be thrown out and alienated. This is totally a good thing which will not drain the ever-shrinking pools of people willing to dedicate their time to the past for free, or contribute to a lack of pride in their country which is the sort of thing you’re usually up in arms over dirty europoor youth too busy with halo to care about their nation

I do not care for the most shallow pride in one's country, the idiotic patriotism which tells you that you are exceptional for being a part of it, even if your only contribution to it has been to keep an artificially preserved party alive. Needless to say, when I endorse keeping a nation close to the heart, a McNation Meal clogged in the heart is not my intention. Everyone is allowed to honour the memory of the dead, the Netherlands is no different from the UK in keeping its memorial services open when terrorist season has died down. These folk are not protesting access to the memorial service, they are protesting rejection from the honourary guard. I do not know how much this honourary guard differs from an honour guard, but considering you traditionally send your most elite and well-drilled units to the honour guard, I believe the WWII memorial committee, even with its much lower standards - has its limits.
If they have a sincere and solemn reverence for their ancestors, they will still be there, either as catering staff or participant. If the only thing keeping them there was a desire to parade in uniform, no love has been lost. If they sincerely believed the only way to honour their ancestors was through parade, then they will choose temperance and fast past the sunday roast, rather than miss out on next year's service. There is nothing surprising in, nor is there any reason to condemn the public who are disinterested in, a nation they have no reasons to take pride in. While you and I may disagree, my viewpoint is such that I would much rather have a smaller group of people who actually care over a disinterested mass of many whose only focus is how the event looks upon them. Thus from my point of view, those arbiters of greater fulfillment who continually relax their standards to draw in mass appeal, will find they follow the path of commercialized Church in finding neither: hollowing their every principle, standard and meaning to appeal to people disinterested in their doctrines, leaving behind a cosmopolitan cafe disinteresting to a genuine congregation, leaving behind a decrepit waste followed by no one.
Basically I am of the opinion that if you must bribe your own ever-shrinking pool of people into honouring their dead, it is much better to let dead thing lie, as you are at that point just pretending to still value the morality you discarded long ago. Much better to instead focus on cultivating the future, so that one day people will again care for everything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 08, 2018, 03:22:37 pm

What a load of pretentious drivel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2018, 03:32:43 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 08, 2018, 03:22:37 pm

What a load of pretentious drivel.

In simplest terms: Let your actions speak

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 08, 2018, 04:29:04 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2018, 03:15:32 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 07, 2018, 03:51:37 pm

Ah yes, it is of course vitally important to reject any overweight people from being allowed to honour the memory of the dead. Only fit and healthy people should be permitted to show respect for their heritage and the fallen, and everyone else should be thrown out and alienated. This is totally a good thing which will not drain the ever-shrinking pools of people willing to dedicate their time to the past for free, or contribute to a lack of pride in their country which is the sort of thing you’re usually up in arms over dirty europoor youth too busy with halo to care about their nation

I do not care for the most shallow pride in one's country, the idiotic patriotism which tells you that you are exceptional for being a part of it, even if your only contribution to it has been to keep an artificially preserved party alive. Needless to say, when I endorse keeping a nation close to the heart, a McNation Meal clogged in the heart is not my intention. Everyone is allowed to honour the memory of the dead, the Netherlands is no different from the UK in keeping its memorial services open when terrorist season has died down. These folk are not protesting access to the memorial service, they are protesting rejection from the honourary guard. I do not know how much this honourary guard differs from an honour guard, but considering you traditionally send your most elite and well-drilled units to the honour guard, I believe the WWII memorial committee, even with its much lower standards - has its limits.
If they have a sincere and solemn reverence for their ancestors, they will still be there, either as catering staff or participant. If the only thing keeping them there was a desire to parade in uniform, no love has been lost. If they sincerely believed the only way to honour their ancestors was through parade, then they will choose temperance and fast past the sunday roast, rather than miss out on next year's service. There is nothing surprising in, nor is there any reason to condemn the public who are disinterested in, a nation they have no reasons to take pride in. While you and I may disagree, my viewpoint is such that I would much rather have a smaller group of people who actually care over a disinterested mass of many whose only focus is how the event looks upon them. Thus from my point of view, those arbiters of greater fulfillment who continually relax their standards to draw in mass appeal, will find they follow the path of commercialized Church in finding neither: hollowing their every principle, standard and meaning to appeal to people disinterested in their doctrines, leaving behind a cosmopolitan cafe disinteresting to a genuine congregation, leaving behind a decrepit waste followed by no one.
Basically I am of the opinion that if you must bribe your own ever-shrinking pool of people into honouring their dead, it is much better to let dead thing lie, as you are at that point just pretending to still value the morality you discarded long ago. Much better to instead focus on cultivating the future, so that one day people will again care for everything.

The Honourary Guard was traditionally composed of members of the Dutch Resistance, and later their children, and now their grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
So you're saying that if you happen be a fat great grandchild of resistance hero, you should just accept that you're demoted to making hamburgers for the good of the ceremony, or lose weight? What if you can't lose weight because of a medical condition?
The UK was never occupied, so I guess you have a different tradition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 08, 2018, 04:48:35 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 08, 2018, 04:29:04 pm

The Honourary Guard was traditionally composed of members of the Dutch Resistance, and later their children, and now their grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
So you're saying that if you happen be a fat great grandchild of resistance hero, you should just accept that you're demoted to making hamburgers for the good of the ceremony, or lose weight? What if you can't lose weight because of a medical condition?
The UK was never occupied, so I guess you have a different tradition.

That sounds ridiculous. As the decedent of one such person, dutch resistance, I would certainty be pissed of they denied me the chance to honor the heroism of my great grandfather in a ceremony because I did not meet arbitrary size standards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 08, 2018, 05:23:34 pm

When the fat parader responds to "you can't march, you're too big." with "....emmm, what?" , he's not saying "cast the spotlight on me again!". It has become a personal slight, one which should by rights not have been made. These are people who want to honour the fallen, but by being denied the chance their dignity has also been impinged. Nor do I think it's fair to say that this makes them disrespectful.

I'm used to Remembrance Parades, and Orangemen Parades. There are some big people in both. Especially where I am from, they have risked life and limb simply to march along the street to protect their principles and remember the sacrifice given. I would be disgusted if any of them were refused the right to march based on some arbitrary reason such as a uniform size - get a bigger uniform, honour the dead and protect the honour of the living.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2018, 05:43:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 08, 2018, 04:29:04 pm

The Honourary Guard was traditionally composed of members of the Dutch Resistance, and later their children, and now their grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
So you're saying that if you happen be a fat great grandchild of resistance hero, you should just accept that you're demoted to making hamburgers for the good of the ceremony, or lose weight? What if you can't lose weight because of a medical condition?
The UK was never occupied, so I guess you have a different tradition.

To the first, yes. Though I would not be so rude as to disparage catering staff, their job is important and their work is not dishonourable, even if well-off people are loathe to be seen doing it. If they find catering too disagreeable, there is always the option of attending the memorial service like everyone else, unless I am mistaken and this is exclusive to their descendants. There exists no person unable to lose weight, it is physically impossible for you to gain weight if you do not eat more than your body uses. While I do not run the Dutch Memorial Committee, for those whom it is exceedingly difficult to lose weight because they are medically incapable, it would be up to them to make the accommodations to assist disabled honourary guard perform their ceremony, or advise if it would not be preferable to participate in the audience instead. If the occupation of Netherlands had something to do with the difference in opinion, I'd doubt it. It is not the UK placing weight standards upon honourary guards; it is the Netherlands.

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 08, 2018, 04:48:35 pm

That sounds ridiculous. As the decedent of one such person, dutch resistance, I would certainty be pissed of they denied me the chance to honor the heroism of my great grandfather in a ceremony because I did not meet arbitrary size standards.

I too would be crestfallen. Yet the loss of this privilege would be no obstacle to honouring the sacrifices of our predecessors, there would be nothing to stop one from showing up and honouring them, even without receiving honours for the self. It is clear that the protests are not of any denied access to memorials, for no such denials have been made. Unless it really was the case, that honouring one's heroic predecessors was impossible without dressing like them? If you genuinely are moved to such piety, nothing will stop you from showing up, even with the apparently insufferable indignity of being an ordinary member of the public in the audience with everyone else.

*EDIT
I have sought for the source of this news so that I may learn more about it, but the closest thing I have found online is the website of the committee. It seems clearer now the reasoning behind the memorial committee, as the memorial committee of the Netherlands is placed under the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports. (https://www.4en5mei.nl/english/the_national_committee_for_4_and_5_may)
Subsequently they are also thinking of setting health standards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2018, 08:36:50 pm

In different news, Orban expected to win 66.83% of Hungary's seats in landslide victory (http://www.valasztas.hu/dyn/pv18/szavossz/hu/l50.html)
Reminds me of an article I read a while back in the internationalist, where they commented in 2017 of the worrying trend of how there were no more healthy democracies left, where money was all that mattered and countries like Russia and China were increasingly seen as role models to follow by European governments. Truly this timeline worsens, that our last democratic choice is to pick the Russian or Chinese model

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on April 08, 2018, 10:16:09 pm

It's definitely been a tendency throughout Eastern Europe. I remember another article arguing that Europe was too quick to sign off on integration without asking for reform; not economically (that argument has been discussed to death), but politically as well: now the east is plagued with unstable countries turning to the New Russian Model, to coin a phrase. Granted, there are some major exceptions which test that argument (Austria in particular), but it's interesting nonetheless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 09, 2018, 01:57:36 am

I'm worried about back home, as both our main conservative party (the PP) and their rivals (Cs) are pretty much this.
... though TBH I lost hope in national politics a while ago.  In my home region both those parties are residual, and we have constitutionally protected devolved authority. So I kind of prefer to ignore whatever happens south of the river Ebro insofar as I can, as to avoid darkness induced apathy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 10, 2018, 07:03:00 pm

Catalonian separatists investigated for terrorism and and rebellion (https://www.thelocal.es/20180410/court-probes-catalan-independence-activists-for-terrorism)

Really gets the noggin joggin

Macron, May, bin Salman and Trump on warpath with Syria over the chemical weapon attack, attributing the attack to the Assad government (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/10/russia-hits-back-over-syria-chemical-attack-with-call-for-un-inquiry)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2018, 08:29:10 am

The OPCW just confirmed from their own investigation that the agent used to poison Skripal and his daughter was indeed a novitsjok agent. Thye have tested the Skripals' blood, and samples obtained from the places they visited, in 4 different labs, one of their own, and 3 independant ones.
They conclude that the agent used was 'of very pure quality', and share the conclusion of Scotland Yard that it most likely was manufactured in a military laboratory.

Meanwhile, the Russian authorities have demanded access to Julia Skripal, but she has made known that she is not interested in that, nor does she approve of Russia trying to speak on her behalf.
Russia now accuses the UK of holding Julia Skripal against her will.

Julia Skripal awoke from artificial coma about 2 weeks ago, and has recovered enough to be dismissed. She has been placed in protective custody. Her father is no longer in critical condition, but still hospitalized.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2018, 09:29:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2018, 08:29:10 am

Meanwhile, the Russian authorities have demanded access to Julia Skripal, but she has made known that she is not interested in that, nor does she approve of Russia trying to speak on her behalf.
Russia now accuses the UK of holding Julia Skripal against her will.

The tone of this sentence suggests she is chastising Russia; her statement was actually more neutral, saying that no one but herself represents herself. Russia was not specified, but her cousin was specified, as her cousin had made statements on her behalf while she was comatose and made efforts to try and see her, efforts which went nowhere due to her inability to get a UK visa. Some media outlets are spinning this as Yulia singling out Russia, but her statement makes it clear, she is still recovering and besides getting briefed on the investigation, is not yet getting involved with the public media or political situation.

Other than that, yeah it seems everything's more or less wrapped up. The OPCW's confirmation of the UK's findings is the final nail in the coffin after Putin's media blitz.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 12, 2018, 09:41:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2018, 09:29:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2018, 08:29:10 am

Meanwhile, the Russian authorities have demanded access to Julia Skripal, but she has made known that she is not interested in that, nor does she approve of Russia trying to speak on her behalf.
Russia now accuses the UK of holding Julia Skripal against her will.

Other than that, yeah it seems everything's more or less wrapped up. The OPCW's confirmation of the UK's findings is the final nail in the coffin after Putin's media blitz.

Does it? As far as I could tell, even the Russian shills weren't disputing it was Novichok, just saying that other people could have made it. I don't the the OCPW got more than just that, although I4ve seen some people claiming the full version of the report is meatier than the executive summary that has been released.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 12, 2018, 04:26:51 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 12, 2018, 09:41:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2018, 09:29:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 12, 2018, 08:29:10 am

Meanwhile, the Russian authorities have demanded access to Julia Skripal, but she has made known that she is not interested in that, nor does she approve of Russia trying to speak on her behalf.
Russia now accuses the UK of holding Julia Skripal against her will.

Other than that, yeah it seems everything's more or less wrapped up. The OPCW's confirmation of the UK's findings is the final nail in the coffin after Putin's media blitz.

Does it? As far as I could tell, even the Russian shills weren't disputing it was Novichok, just saying that other people could have made it. I don't the the OCPW got more than just that, although I4ve seen some people claiming the full version of the report is meatier than the executive summary that has been released.

didnt Russia say that novichok doesnt even exist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2018, 08:12:33 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 12, 2018, 09:41:15 am

Does it? As far as I could tell, even the Russian shills weren't disputing it was Novichok, just saying that other people could have made it. I don't the the OCPW got more than just that, although I4ve seen some people claiming the full version of the report is meatier than the executive summary that has been released.

They were saying all sorts of falsehoods and half truths, like saying the name "novichok" does not exist and has never been used in Russia, to outright lies like the UK not sending any samples to the OCPW when it had been days since the UK had done exactly that. Just look at Yulia Skripal and how Russian assets are going on about the UK kidnapping Yulia and forcing her to make statements. If they had left a note saying "Putin was here" they would say the UK put it there, and if the only other state to trust was the UK, it would just be a case of one word vs another word. The OCPW changes things, it is not just UK's word vs Russia's word, it is the international evaluation of evidence vs Russia's word.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2018, 10:29:31 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 12, 2018, 09:10:42 pm

I'm pretty sure that if we caught Putin on camera saying that it was Russia all the while he's pouring polonium into the recorder's tea, and the recording was from a live-stream of an event being live streamed by 5 different sources, 3 of which were Russian, they'd still claim that Russia had nothing to do with it.

"The Kremlin is perfectly innocent, I assure you. Would you like some more polonium tea?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 13, 2018, 11:10:36 am

"Wait, wait type of tea?"

"....
Elderflower."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2018, 11:16:39 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 13, 2018, 11:10:36 am

"Wait, wait type of tea?"

"....
Elderflower."

"You see, Elderflower, in Russian, sounds a lot like the word 'Polonium'. I can see how you'd be confused."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 13, 2018, 11:35:19 am

"Oh. Alright, yes please. I'll have a cup."
*Takes out phone. Uses google translate.*
*Spits out "tea".
"No it doesn't! 'Elderflower' is 'buziny'"

"You lie and Google lies."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 13, 2018, 04:24:41 pm

UK intelligence made classified intel public, which shows that Russian intelligence hacked Yulia Skripal's email account, and special units were trained to use nerve agents, specifically in how to apply them to doorknobs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43755789 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43755789)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 13, 2018, 06:13:55 pm

So, still not hard evidence, technically... Better keep denying!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 13, 2018, 06:15:15 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 13, 2018, 06:13:55 pm

So, still not hard evidence, technically... Better keep denying!

Putin did nothing wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2018, 06:51:20 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 13, 2018, 06:15:15 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 13, 2018, 06:13:55 pm

So, still not hard evidence, technically... Better keep denying!

Putin did nothing wrong.

The Soviet Union has never fallen, it was all but a ruse to fool western capitalist pigdogs. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 13, 2018, 06:59:19 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 13, 2018, 06:51:20 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on April 13, 2018, 06:15:15 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 13, 2018, 06:13:55 pm

So, still not hard evidence, technically... Better keep denying!

Putin did nothing wrong.

The Soviet Union has never fallen, it was all but a ruse to fool western capitalist pigdogs. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDXtVlG2VW0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Evil Knievel on April 14, 2018, 02:17:23 am

Here is the link (https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_series/2018/en/s-1612-2018_e_.pdf) to the OPCW report. It is short and concise, you may want to read it. By the way, what is confirmed is less than what media purport:

Quote

10. The  results  of  analysis  by  the  OPCW  designated  laboratories  of  environmental  and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW  team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.

11. The  TAV  team  notes  that  the  toxic  chemical  was  of  high  purity.  The  latter  is  concluded from the almost complete absence of impurities.

(emphasis mine)

That makes it less conclusive than I'd have hoped for. I personally believe that the Russians did it, but not for the (still absent, if existing kept secret) evidence but rather for the patterns in Russian reactions, that do not look to me like sensible reactions an innocent would have taken. It looks a bit like the evidence can't be published by the UK, and the Russians know that.

The other interesting point is the reaction of the western states. Their quickness gives me the impression that they use it as a pretext for some other agenda (quite similar to the attacks on Syria today that also were launched before any OPCW investigation took place).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on April 14, 2018, 07:18:02 am

Why bother pretending after all? Just invade Syria and go do that "win foreign war to get domestic support" because that worked so well in the p (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War)a (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War)s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I)t (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War). After all, we need to dispense freedom from 20mm autocannons to somebody.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 14, 2018, 09:45:26 am

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on April 14, 2018, 07:18:02 am

Why bother pretending after all? Just invade Syria and go do that "win foreign war to get domestic support" because that worked so well in the p (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War)a (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War)s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I)t (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War). After all, we need to dispense freedom from 20mm autocannons to somebody.

You should have included the second Gulf War in that. I get that you're being facetious here or something, but seriously, Syria is even more of a clusterfuck than Iraq ever was. On top of everything else, there is the fact that Iran is even more active there than they were in Iraq. Israel would rather occupy Syria themselves than let Iran have it and they could get away with it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 14, 2018, 02:17:26 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

And they don't have the document listed as being released, so.... I'm still leaning towards Russia.

EDIT: okay, the final formula is classified, but they know what it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 14, 2018, 02:26:04 pm

Well, the OPCW - who the Russians wanted the UK to send samples to - said it was Novichok.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 14, 2018, 03:18:46 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 14, 2018, 02:28:19 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

And the odds that the Russian foreign minister isn't lying through his teeth?

Those depend heavily on if he has teeth or not. Years of mandatory state vodka is detrimental to dental health.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 14, 2018, 03:49:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 14, 2018, 03:18:46 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 14, 2018, 02:28:19 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

And the odds that the Russian foreign minister isn't lying through his teeth?

Those depend heavily on if he has teeth or not. Years of mandatory state vodka is detrimental to dental health.

Can't lie through your teeth if you have no teeth.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 14, 2018, 04:12:42 pm

Lie? Yes. Teeth? Maybe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 14, 2018, 04:25:13 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

Chances of false flagging are low. The Russian minister is accusing the UK and USA of using an incapacitating agent (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_29750015.html) which causes confusion and hallucination; the victims were not confused, they were convulsing, frothing at the mouth with their eyes white. Not mentioned is that the Swiss report confirms that the nerve agent A-234 was used... Which is a novichok agent, made only in the USSR. How forgetful these ministers are, to forget every detail which incriminates them!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 14, 2018, 05:02:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 14, 2018, 04:25:13 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 14, 2018, 02:13:09 pm

So (https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/), the Russian foreign minister has stated that Moscow received a special document from the Spiez lab in Switzerland, which states that the substance used in the Salisbury poisoning was not Novitsjok at all, but was in fact one of the BZ family of nerve agents produced and stockpiled by...

{dramatic pause}

...old man Smithers the United States and United Kingdom!


So, uh... I mean, if that's actually true, that's a pretty big deal. But... chances?

Chances of false flagging are low. The Russian minister is accusing the UK and USA of using an incapacitating agent (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_29750015.html) which causes confusion and hallucination; the victims were not confused, they were convulsing, frothing at the mouth with their eyes white. Not mentioned is that the Swiss report confirms that the nerve agent A-234 was used... Which is a novichok agent, made only in the USSR. How forgetful these ministers are, to forget every detail which incriminates them!

And it was no coincidence that the chemical they accused the UK of using is stockpiled by the UK and US, right?

It's just another attempt at deflecting blame, and due to the fact that the evidence would largely be classified info, the UK can't really provide detailed proof.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 14, 2018, 06:32:00 pm

Occam's razor would point to it being almost certainly the Russians that did this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 14, 2018, 06:38:16 pm

I don't think you'd even need occams razor here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 15, 2018, 04:06:45 am

Very interesting seeing the UK, France and USA displaying their own diplomatic styles and strategy in the UN, regarding their strikes in Syria.
-UK argued that the strikes were justified using international law
-France argued that the strikes were justified as a diplomatic sanction of last resort
-USA simply threatened even more and larger strikes, saying they were "locked and loaded" for more

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on April 15, 2018, 07:44:44 am

America:
             ,What can yah do?     
   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2018, 01:40:09 pm

Can we, like, air strike America? Just to see what would happen?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on April 15, 2018, 03:36:31 pm

I second that motion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 15, 2018, 04:00:20 pm

Aaaand everyone is on a list. Again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 15, 2018, 04:02:17 pm

9/11

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2018, 04:06:39 pm

Only TheDwarfy and SabertoothTiger so far. And LW, maybe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2018, 04:15:59 pm

Well, if the damage is done....

I will pay 9/11ths of 20 Urists of Adamantium to he who brings me the head of Hillary Clinton.

Go forth, my hounds of ten.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 15, 2018, 04:34:21 pm

oi bruv that's not banter u got to go to jail now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2018, 05:42:13 pm

It's not a set in stone thing to happen yet, but MPs from four different parties are pushing to have the final Brexit deal be voted on by the people before Parliament approves it. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/brexit-mps-from-four-parties-jointly-launch-push-for-peoples-vote) That'd definetly be interesting to watch because it'd be another hoop the final Brexit deal would have to pass through.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 15, 2018, 06:33:46 pm

There's already a Brexit museum now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 15, 2018, 07:56:23 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2018, 05:42:13 pm

It's not a set in stone thing to happen yet, but MPs from four different parties are pushing to have the final Brexit deal be voted on by the people before Parliament approves it. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/brexit-mps-from-four-parties-jointly-launch-push-for-peoples-vote) That'd definetly be interesting to watch because it'd be another hoop the final Brexit deal would have to pass through.

>four different parties
>they're all the same
>different

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 15, 2018, 08:51:21 pm

Like the thing said, it’s basically another referendum so it won’t happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 15, 2018, 11:29:36 pm

Which is why it'd be interesting if it does happen. Theres no way that May will let it get more complicated anyhow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 16, 2018, 06:31:20 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 15, 2018, 11:29:36 pm

Which is why it'd be interesting if it does happen. Theres no way that May will let it get more complicated anyhow.

Don't understestimate the powers of Queen Maydas to turn all shes touches into political shit. Would the vote be on exit, or on whether to accept the deal or go for a no-deal exit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2018, 08:41:03 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 16, 2018, 06:31:20 am

Don't understestimate the powers of Queen Maydas to turn all shes touches into political shit. Would the vote be on exit, or on whether to accept the deal or go for a no-deal exit?

I would place the primary blame on Cameron. Theresa May has been surprisingly poor, but Cameron is easily one of the most useless PMs we've ever had.

-Goes to school at the elite Eton, whose annual fees are higher than the average household income of an entire English family.
-For his first job, becomes a researcher for the Tory party through his godfather, who was an MP.
-Does PPE in Oxford, where he joins the Bullingdon club. There he meets the club President, a man called "The Berserker" - Boris Johnson.
-Boris Johnson diplomatically insults his first foreign leader whilst in Oxford, by bringing clubbies to go smash up the student Radek Sikorski's room. Radek Sikorski becomes Poland's foreign minister.
-Got elected promising everyone an EU membership referendum. Later stated that he believed the UK leaving the EU would be the death of UK & Europe, which means he was willing to gamble destroying everyone in exchange for getting a job.
-But he was lying, as he tried chickening out of delivering the referendum. Didn't work since UKIP was a thing, and his voters promised to suicide vote the Tory party into irrelevance if he didn't deliver.
-Delivers referendum, using every dirty trick in the book to try and win. Sending project fear material to targeted voters, keeping pro-EU MPs from campaigning whilst he campaigned, using taxpayer money to outspend his own legal campaign limits. Deliberately stops the government from making plans to leave the EU in order to not encourage pro-UK MPs.
-Loses EU referendum anyways, now with no plan.
-Despite being the PM with the democratic mandate to carry through brexit, despite promising he would remain PM if he lost, quits like a bitch anyways. Democratic mandate lost, Tory MPs begin stabbing each other in an orgy of retarded intrigue.
-Boris nearly becomes PM until he is kamakazed by Michael Gove.
-Gove later goes on a nice holiday with George Osborne, David Cameron's personal friend and most powerful ally in government.
-Osborne takes over the London Evening Standard, the quality of the newspaper drops instantly as the paper switches focus from all of London to white liberals of the north.
-Theresa May cleanses the cabinet of all of Cameron's bois.
-Corbyn eats coups for breakfast.
-Theresa May embarks upon her own campaign of mistakes.
-EU watches in confusion, unsure what to do, because they aren't sure what the UK is doing (it's telling that the EU commissioner is surprised Theresa May is still in power).
-Farage joins Fox and LBC, UKIP implodes immediately.
-Boris makes a diplomatic insult every week.
-David Cameron later states that he was "slightly wrong" about Brexit killing us all, as we're doing "slight less bad" than he had predicted.
-David Cameron is today worth £50M.

In regards to the latter, the secondrendum would be on whatever keeps the UK in the EU longest

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2018, 08:50:05 am

Then there's that slightly cringey Easter speech telling everyone about the importance of being Christian...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2018, 08:53:40 am

Larping as a Christian is the least of his sins tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 17, 2018, 09:55:59 am

I daresay Farage joined Fox BECAUSE UKIP was about to implode. Him leaving was a symptom, not the (main) cause.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 10:04:56 am

I thought UKIP imploded due to their own hubris. It was already in the proccess of imploding when he left.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 17, 2018, 11:09:18 am

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 17, 2018, 11:13:49 am

Pretty much. They retain some relevance as a party which rages against the limitations a reluctant government necessarily provides, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 02:27:12 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 17, 2018, 09:55:59 am

I daresay Farage joined Fox BECAUSE UKIP was about to implode. Him leaving was a symptom, not the (main) cause.

I believe the opposite; that UKIP had always been in a perpetual state of explosion that had only been held together by the gravity of Farage

Quote from: Sheb on April 17, 2018, 11:09:18 am

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

Won in the sense of the referendum, but it's 2 years on in and we're still in the EU ;P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 02:36:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 02:27:12 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 17, 2018, 09:55:59 am

I daresay Farage joined Fox BECAUSE UKIP was about to implode. Him leaving was a symptom, not the (main) cause.

I believe the opposite; that UKIP had always been in a perpetual state of explosion that had only been held together by the gravity of Farage

Quote from: Sheb on April 17, 2018, 11:09:18 am

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

Won in the sense of the referendum, but it's 2 years on in and we're still in the EU ;P

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

Not sure where things are as far as the Brexit deal is, but I've heard that the latest main hangup has been how to deal with the North Ireland-Ireland border, namely how to deal with everything that you'd have to deal with in a border crossing because Ireland would still be in the EU and Ireland has major economic connections going through there. I doubt it's THE latest hangup, let alone the only one, but that's just one that I've heard about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 05:30:55 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 02:36:18 pm

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

That was one option, but I imagine most expected negotiations to drag on for a few weeks before the UK left the EU - certainly not years of negotiations leading to years of transitional periods which lead to years of negotiations for the penultimate transitioning period for the ultimate negotiations of deciding when to actually leave

Quote from: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 02:36:18 pm

Not sure where things are as far as the Brexit deal is, but I've heard that the latest main hangup has been how to deal with the North Ireland-Ireland border, namely how to deal with everything that you'd have to deal with in a border crossing because Ireland would still be in the EU and Ireland has major economic connections going through there. I doubt it's THE latest hangup, let alone the only one, but that's just one that I've heard about.

Yeah I saw a lot of snarky reddit shit about that from people who knew little about the situation but still wanted to voice their misinformation. The Ireland-Northern Ireland situation is pretty simple* for the immediate future, the Republic of Ireland is not a member of the schengen area nor is Northern Ireland or the UK. The UK and Ireland have had de facto free movement for the past century of peace time in their own bilateral agreements and cooperation, whilst both have maintained the same hesitance towards entangling one's nation with EU institutions. Ireland does not have land connections to the EU through Northern Ireland, its major connection is to Northern Ireland & the UK itself (which is something I would be intrigued to see change, if the EU built a tunnel connecting Ireland to the UK, Ireland would have a direct land connection to Europe through overland railway and the channel tunnel).

Regarding this, in an unusual display of unanimous sanity, Irish, British and EU leaders have all agreed to maintain the status quo in order to not provoke new troubles.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/JsPL4do.png)

Green = Common Travel Area
Blue = Schengen Area
Grey = Dudes who use borders when their governments exist
*Thus it is simple for the purposes of travel arrangements. Everything stays the same in that regard

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 06:13:53 pm

The area that has a separation similar to where the channel tunnel is, is at the northeastern tip of the Emerald Isle, if aiming for a project similar to the size of the channel tunnel. Otherwise, the next best spot looks like between the Holyhead area and Dublin or just south of it. Or maybe two connecting the Isle of Man.

The only real issue is going to be the cost, as with all megaprojects.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 17, 2018, 06:35:35 pm

I dont think its  factible.  The very reason the English channel was drillable was because it used to be a peninsula's isthmus. Ireland/continent is another can of beans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 06:45:42 pm

It's going to depend on the geology, that's true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 17, 2018, 07:02:33 pm

I've holidayed up there throughout my childhood.

You could probably dander across it if the sea froze, or you put a line of barges down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 17, 2018, 08:17:26 pm

Interestingly, the North Channel between Ulster and Scotland is actually the very deepest part of the Irish Sea and environs, if this (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Irish_Sea_%E2%80%93_relief,_ports,_limits.tif) has the right of it, though not at the very shortest span.  This talk wouldn't be without precedent, though.  Consideration of an Irish-British undersea tunnel, either at Kintyre, Galloway (both northern), Dublin-Wales (under the Irish Sea), or Rosslare-Wales (under St. George's Channel) apparently been bouncing around for a while.  The northern route would likely be best served by a bridge, though; while significant in its engineering challenges, it would likely be cheaper than an undersea tunnel, and similar and longer spans have been bridged in China and elsewhere.  But yes, expensive (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/south_of_scotland/6958191.stm) is the word for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 03:51:02 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 05:30:55 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 02:36:18 pm

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

That was one option, but I imagine most expected negotiations to drag on for a few weeks before the UK left the EU - certainly not years of negotiations leading to years of transitional periods which lead to years of negotiations for the penultimate transitioning period for the ultimate negotiations of deciding when to actually leave

Surely not anyone who paid even a modicum of attention to the issues? The sheer complexities of managing Britain's relation with the EU post-Brexit were always going to take years to sort out. Hell, plenty of people pointed out that the 2-years hard time limit after triggering article 50 was in part designed to make the exit process harder by shortening the negotiation period.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 18, 2018, 04:47:39 am

What do you call an indecisive conservative in the U.K.?

A suppository!


Thank you, thank you... I'm here all week.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 18, 2018, 06:28:39 am

Your hearing's weak?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:12:33 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 03:51:02 am

Surely not anyone who paid even a modicum of attention to the issues? The sheer complexities of managing Britain's relation with the EU post-Brexit were always going to take years to sort out. Hell, plenty of people pointed out that the 2-years hard time limit after triggering article 50 was in part designed to make the exit process harder by shortening the negotiation period.

To the first question: No, as the weakness of Theresa May's governance in regards to the internal political situation of the UK is the cause of this continual delay - where the EU Commission wanted a hasty brexit, and I was inclined to agree. Both sides of the channel are in concurrence that this will take much time to solve, and both sides are in concurrence it would have been best to manage post-Brexit relations post-Brexit. Trying to manage relations between an EU member leaving and the EU member retards this process considerably more than between a sovereign nation and the EU.

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 18, 2018, 07:53:32 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:12:33 am

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite

My dad is one such. Personally, I think if an amicable agreement can be reached then so be it. But an insta-withdrawal shouldn't be off the table if the EU refuses to play ball, either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 08:13:57 am

On the plus side, the long drawn out process does bore everyone to death, keeping all the coke addled hedge fund managers placid

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 09:43:22 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:12:33 am

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite

That's bonkers. Going for a no-deal break would disrupt fifty billions bajillions different things. Negotiating with other countries is also much, much easier to be done in a post-Brexit thing once thing are settled with the EU rather than trying to do everything at once.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 18, 2018, 09:49:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 09:43:22 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:12:33 am

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite

That's bonkers. Going for a no-deal break would disrupt fifty billions bajillions different things. Negotiating with other countries is also much, much easier to be done in a post-Brexit thing once thing are settled with the EU rather than trying to do everything at once.

There are people who wouldn't care if it breaks a bajillion things because for them, exiting the EU is worth the disruption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 18, 2018, 09:52:16 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 18, 2018, 09:49:08 am

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 09:43:22 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:12:33 am

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite

That's bonkers. Going for a no-deal break would disrupt fifty billions bajillions different things. Negotiating with other countries is also much, much easier to be done in a post-Brexit thing once thing are settled with the EU rather than trying to do everything at once.

There are people who wouldn't care if it breaks a bajillion things because for them, exiting the EU is worth the disruption.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/505/362/3f4.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 18, 2018, 09:54:52 am

Ah, melodrama. The remoaner's calling card :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 01:04:56 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 18, 2018, 09:54:52 am

Ah, melodrama. The remoaner's calling card :P

Are you talking to me? I mean, you might not like it, but over the last 60 years, a shitload of thing has been transferred to be done by the EU, from certifying medicine to funding reasearch, managing external tariffs and trade, allocating fishing rights and bajillions of other things. Thinking that the UK would be better off doing them itself is one thing (wrong in my opinion, but at least reasonably wrong). Thinking that all of that can be solved in a few weeks, or even worse that the UK could just have severed all ties right after the referendum and sorted things out afterward is plain bonkers. You need to find alternatives for every single thing that is currently being done through the EU. That simply cannot be improvised.

Even at the current pace, things are disruptive enough that my (Belgian) uni had to set up a Brexit comittee to evaluate and plan for Brexit. I can't even think what a mess it would have been without any transition periods.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:25:11 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 09:43:22 am

That's bonkers. Going for a no-deal break would disrupt fifty billions bajillions different things. Negotiating with other countries is also much, much easier to be done in a post-Brexit thing once thing are settled with the EU rather than trying to do everything at once.

I don't care about ease, and I certainly question how this process can in any way be said to be easier than having left the EU and actually begin politically managing the diplomatic relations we already do. Often the easy way brooks no development, just as an individual who always takes the easy way develops into a useless individual, where one who takes the challenging way develops into a capable individual. To that end, the apparently easy way has meant we have not even begun renegotiating our relationships with the entire world, and is about as useful as pushing deadlines away usually is. I don't advocate it strongly, owing to my disappointment and low expectations in the ability of our government, but I do know for certain that the civil service would definitely be up to the job provided the government didn't muck about.

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 01:04:56 pm

Are you talking to me? I mean, you might not like it, but over the last 60 years, a shitload of thing has been transferred to be done by the EU, from certifying medicine to funding reasearch, managing external tariffs and trade, allocating fishing rights and bajillions of other things. Thinking that the UK would be better off doing them itself is one thing (wrong in my opinion, but at least reasonably wrong). Thinking that all of that can be solved in a few weeks, or even worse that the UK could just have severed all ties right after the referendum and sorted things out afterward is plain bonkers. You need to find alternatives for every single thing that is currently being done through the EU. That simply cannot be improvised.

Even at the current pace, things are disruptive enough that my (Belgian) uni had to set up a Brexit comittee to evaluate and plan for Brexit. I can't even think what a mess it would have been without any transition periods.

Yeah loads of stuff has been nicked by the EU from Europeans lol, I voted to leave now because I knew the longer we remained the more difficult it would be to leave, to the point where I was concerned all of our institutions would end up owned by the EU and leaving would be impossible.
Fortunately the UK is not in so dire a position as Belgium for example, so the situation is a lot simpler to solve - with much staying the same. Issues of borders for example brought up earlier would have to be discussed for another EU country, but not for the UK, because the UK never lost control in the first place.

Take for example the regulation of medicines - the European Medicines Agency actually relied upon the pre-existing national regulatory bodies of the EU nations in order to do its job. Thus the UK's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency was never dissolved nor supplanted in role, remaining in place and function to this day.

External tariffs is better managed for the UK from the UK; it simply doesn't do for any reason to have the EU manage UK trade with America or China, and its management has been particularly poor when it comes to actually managing trade with anyone.
This leads to the rather unconvincing situation, at least if you bare with me, from the British point of view. What I mean by this is that the EU has managed trade between Germany and Europe, but has impeded us in the rest of the world. All of our trade with the USA, China, Australia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Japan e.t.c. that we do, we're doing with no EU trade deal, and sometimes even with no trade agreements at all, and certainly with no trade deals. The reality is, the British people are alike the Dutch, in that when it comes to commerce it is never a question of who will permit them, but who will stop them. Materialistic bastards, but it is these individual merchants who fundamentally manage trade - not politicians, not bureaucrats :P
It will also certainly be a lot easier for the UK to make these relationships with our historical partners abroad having left the EU - since we will be able to benefit our own economy without harming European partners' economies or social goals.

Allocating fishing rights? AHahaha oh good Lord don't get me started on the fishing rights, it damn well drove me up the wall last thread, I'm much too passionate on the topic for my the good of my own health. EU fishing policy has been to the detriment of the world, subsidizing a few fishing cartel families to overfish for catches no one eats, and the UK has paid poorly for the ambitions of our own pro-EU fishing minister. Needless to say, were I in charge, no one would be fishing in UK waters until such time as it was clear we weren't going to permanently run our country's ecosystem aground.

Research is one I kept for last, because while I disagree with the notion that UK Research rests upon the EU, I am also unhappy with both the way UK and EU spending on UK research has taken place. UK government has put in billions of pounds in research and plans to raise that number... Good, EU has put in billions of euros and who knows if the government will match the contribution in the likely event of EU diminishing this, hence why I left it for last. It's a high priority for the future political campaigning to come in the UK, and I am pleased our current government has decided to increase public spending on research from 1.7% to 2.4% GDP, but I think it should be pushed higher still - nevertheless, my issue is not just with the quantity of funds, but where it is being invested.

The majority of the UK's research, more than the UK and EU contributions combined, is self-funded by the private sector - more than half of the UK's research funds itself.
The only issue with the success is that it is much too lopsided a situation, centering nearly entirely around East England, Southeast England and London. More specifically, centered around Oxford, Cambridge and London.
The value of public funding is that it can be directed in places for long term projects which the private sector would be unwilling to risk. Research investors from the UK, EU and abroad are comfortable setting up shop in Oxford, Cambridge and London because of the concentrated access to energy, data, funds, staff, researchers and elite science boffins, but less so in the rest of entire fucking Britain - at least in relative terms, as they do invest in the rest of Britain, just considerably less so proportionally.

Hence EU and UK research funds could have been used in conjunction with infrastructure and education spending in countries like Wales or regions like Northern Ireland or the North East, to set up not just research projects, but larger centres of research diversified throughout the British isles.
Basically:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Triangle_(UK_universities)
This is good, but can this not be reproduced throughout UK? Also, although this is an issue for the UK, I believe this could be valuable to the EU too, especially regarding the West-East divide in the research sector. Smaller government funds can cause more impact for the future of innovation when used in places private pockets won't go!

Lastly, before I go off track and begin rambling further on political situations which do not actually detail anything about the UK-EU provisional transitional soporific initiation of preliminary negotiatory departure, resolving the issues of Brexit beyond Brexit would and will take much time; resolving them and actually leaving the European Union are different things, however. Our government certainly wishes to buy as much time leaving as slowly out the door as it can get before it begins resolving our issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 19, 2018, 01:21:28 am

LW I understand your frustration with EU institutions but I think you overrate both the good faith of the pro-Brexit parties and the international weight of the UK as an isolated medium sized country. Yhat is:  the people driving this don't have the best interest of the common people in mind ( this is not a "left Brexit")  and the UK will be more easily bullied by international actors (USA, China, Russia, India, and now probably the EU too. )

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 19, 2018, 02:18:46 am

Dutch gambling authority has given 4 game companies 8 weeks time to change their games, because they are in violation of the gambling laws.
If they fail to comply, they can face fines up to 850 thousand euros.
The gambling authority will not yet reveal the exact names of the 4 major game titles or companies, but they will say it concerns games that use loot boxes, and have the option that players pay real life money for those, plus the option to trade items from lootboxes between players.
That is considered gambling under dutch law, and has a risk of gambling addiction. It is illegal to provide that service without proper casino permit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 19, 2018, 03:13:36 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 19, 2018, 02:18:46 am

Dutch gambling authority has given 4 game companies 8 weeks time to change their games, because they are in violation of the gambling laws.
If they fail to comply, they can face fines up to 850 thousand euros.
The gambling authority will not yet reveal the exact names of the 4 major game titles or companies, but they will say it concerns games that use loot boxes, and have the option that players pay real life money for those, plus the option to trade items from lootboxes between players.
That is considered gambling under dutch law, and has a risk of gambling addiction. It is illegal to provide that service without proper casino permit.

This is big, and about bloody time. Nice to see that the ball has actually started rolling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 19, 2018, 03:59:10 am

In other news, the Dutch government wants to withdraw internet providers, datacentres and telecommunications companies from the free market.
Not that they want to go as far as nationalizing them, but they will designate these sectors as 'vital sectors' (just like water, and electricity), which protects them from takeovers.

The minister of Economy will get the full authority to forbid, and even rollback takeovers of these companies, if the takeover can in any way compromise national security or public order.

I wonder what this means for Google server farms (of which we have a lot). Probably nothing, unless Google intends to sell them to the highest bidder, in which case we'll appropriate them and own the internets.  :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on April 19, 2018, 04:44:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2018, 07:25:11 pm

I think we're talking past each others. I am not aiming to argue whether the UK was better off within or without the EU, we had that argument plenty of time already and our respective positions are clear. I'm arguing that no matter what you think of the EU, the fact is that doing all that was done through the EU and organizing for it is, and was always going to be, a massively complex affair. I'm not saying the UK couldn't do it, I'm saying it's bonkers to think the UK could have organized to do it in a few weeks.

I also totally don't get your argument of "We could be negotiating with our other partners already". You'll be able to as soon as the UK officially exit Europe. Waiting for the current negotiations period just mean that you won't be trying to do so while also negotiating with the EU and trying to manage the chaos of a quick, no-deal Brexit. Especially since for a lot of other countries, it doesn't make sense to negotiate stuff like trade deals until the status of things like the sharing of import quotas between the UK and the rEU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 19, 2018, 06:12:34 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 19, 2018, 01:21:28 am

LW I understand your frustration with EU institutions but I think you overrate both the good faith of the pro-Brexit parties and the international weight of the UK as an isolated medium sized country. Yhat is:  the people driving this don't have the best interest of the common people in mind ( this is not a "left Brexit")  and the UK will be more easily bullied by international actors (USA, China, Russia, India, and now probably the EU too. )

What makes you think that? I hold Cameron in obvious disregard, I appreciate Bojo's stance on British rhubarb but believe he is a walking wrecking ball in the foreign office who sought to be Prime Minister, Farage is gone, Theresa May is a spylord who hates shitposters an served Remain when it seemed they were winning, then served Leave when they had won, ad shen placed Amber Rudd as home secretary... The only one I think is unequivocally not a dickhead or bugman in some way is Philip Hammond, who has made some meaningful reforms in the UK, but his willingness to make nonsensical cuts to our armed forces, his willingness to accept Saudi donations (of such pathetically small sums!) in exchange for complicitness of their siege in Yemen, means I am eager to see him replaced by someone serious. Corbyn I like personally, but our politics diverge on critical issues.
I recall when May's campaign mouthpiece said the Tory track record on healthcare speaks for itself in showing they care about the NHS, and the audience burst out in incredulous laughter.

Believe you me, I do not think things are ok, it is because I believe everything is so unnecessarily fucked that we are compelled to unfuck it with all haste.

In regards to the latter, this attitude is only known by me through other people, for I hold it in no parts. Reminds me of how throughout history, there have been various instances of this senseless surrender advised by peoples of various motives and fears. When the warlord Cao Cao annexed Jing province without a fight, he was stunned - he found it had a quarter of a million men in its army, a powerful navy, a full treasury, hundreds of thousands of bushels of grain stockpiled, bountiful fields, a safe and benevolent regime ruling over a pleased and populous populace. He thought it so amusing that with all of these forces, the governor of Jing had surrendered without a fight, while the governor's relative Liu Bei continued to fight despite having only 3,000 men and no land. When Lie Bei's prime minister arrived in the southland, he too was shocked that the southland's civil service advocated surrender, when they had an army of 100,000, the strongest and most experienced navy, a formidable river in between them and their foes, numerous capable generals and civil servants - yet advocated surrender, because warfare jeopardized their civil careers, whilst surrender guaranteed it, for they knew their conqueror would continue employing them if they subjugated their own state on their behalf. The southland's Lord ignored their civil service and entirely annihilated Cao Cao's army, with the high estimate of their casualties being a million men, incinerated in a naval battle!

Thus whoever has told you these things, they are giving into a despair which has little reason to exist. The British are like a lion that has become obese, contracted depression and replaced virtue with drinking, convinced it is useless and should schedule its own suicide in a Swiss clinic. Too often I see young adults, so intelligent, yet so useless, not for a lack of skills, training or inherent usefulness, but for a lack of conviction in their own usefulness. Someone who believes they are useless will never be useful, no matter how useful they actually are. They are demoralized and will not stir from their sleepless cots.

Isolated, it seems to too many. New York, Tokyo, London, such names are branded in the world, indisputably. Of the world's nations, few can boast the interconnectedness of the innumerable families of the UK spread throughout the world. Everywhere British ships ply the oceans with their flags held high, Britain goes with them, and it is not just on the traditional traffic lanes that the UK is omnidirectional - how can it be, that so many globalist liberals like my dear Cleggers, now turn around to the country that invented the world wide web, and say it is isolated and alone? Even the most remote Australian can shitpost all over the globe with such an invention.

And of bullying?!! How many centuries have greater powers tried to subdue Britain and fail?!! No, conquerors of the British isles have always had most success when invited to the isles. I can just imagine Elizabeth, Nelson or Churchill going out and saying with our brave hearts of oak, we shall never, never, - we've surrendered, oops, no bully pls.
Surrendered in peacetime, against no enemies, because of bullying by friends. You can see why I am troubled at the lack of imagination by people like my Cleggers.

And international actors? USA remains the linchpin of the Anglosphere, and we do not need to fear becoming the newest US state unwillingly, at a time where US world hegemony has declined due to its own overextension.
China will be proud over us, will do their best to steal our technology and benefit from our services, but that is no different from any other nation - it would be silly to expect them to desire languishing. When it comes to bullying, our geographical distance means we will only be in conflict with China if we choose to send intelligence or naval assets to counter China, and I do not fear these assets being bullied, but rather China's weaker neighbours in Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, of which, I believe we should support Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Japan with indirect support at the very least, but that's another topic entirely. Point is, worst case scenario that the US Navy is undone in the future and fails to contain Chinese pacific ambitions, the UK will not be affected in any case.
Russia? I'm actually concerned that Russia will become a failed state in the future, at which point the UK must step in not to contain Russia, but ensure it does not collapse, lest more of its nuclear weapons end up gods knows where. I would rather have more friendly relations between UK and Russia, but it seems the prospects of this must wait until after Putin leaves power, because Putin is disinterested in alleviating Russia's strategic burdens.
India? Here lies UK: Bullied to death by a recipient of its foreign aid.
EU? Here lies UK: Bullied to death by President Tony Blair and Emperor Macron. Slightly more believable. Clearly the only answer to being bullied to death by the EU, is to dissolve your nation and subject yourself to EU administration. That will solve EU bullying?

I am really rather glad a great power did not delude itself into being bullied to death by its own anxieties, at least I hope so, for we are still yet to leave the EU. Hammond has yet to scuttle our maritime capabilties, May yet to scuttle our state, I don't know what Boris is doing, but for the time being I am certain the UK will continue to rise in prosperity and power provided it can give reasons for its young uns to live. It is rather like the Falklands War, wherein one does not need overwhelming superiority in order to succeed, as one can indeed succeed with parity and even with inferiority. Provided we acquire more imaginative and serious leaders!

Quote from: Sheb on April 19, 2018, 04:44:56 am

I'm arguing that no matter what you think of the EU, the fact is that doing all that was done through the EU and organizing for it is, and was always going to be, a massively complex affair.

Yes

Quote from: Sheb on April 19, 2018, 04:44:56 am

I'm not saying the UK couldn't do it, I'm saying it's bonkers to think the UK could have organized to do it in a few weeks.

Bonkers, yes, impossible - no, but also, not my point. Consider that the UK's current repeal bill has simply incorporated EU law into British legislature, thus meaning no changes have been made. The changes the EU has made can be modified, undone, retained and so on at political leisure, as could be done with a unilateral withdrawal, this is a point separate from the timeframe of leaving itself.

Quote from: Sheb on April 19, 2018, 04:44:56 am

I also totally don't get your argument of "We could be negotiating with our other partners already". You'll be able to as soon as the UK officially exit Europe.

Argument distilled: We will be able to as soon as the UK officially exits Europe.

AS SOON

Minor note, we have not left Europe, tectonic shift happens very slowly. Unless Icelandic magma harvesting has fucked shit up

Quote from: Sheb on April 19, 2018, 04:44:56 am

Waiting for the current negotiations period just mean that you won't be trying to do so while also negotiating with the EU and trying to manage the chaos of a quick, no-deal Brexit. Especially since for a lot of other countries, it doesn't make sense to negotiate stuff like trade deals until the status of things like the sharing of import quotas between the UK and the rEU.

When the results were called and May's cabinet assembled, May, Hammond and Boris were all shipped from country to country, USA to Turkey to South Korea, doing nothing. Even with the USA saying we'd be front of the queue, their till was open but there was no customer. Our government certainly thought it imperative to manage our relations during the negotiations with the EU, during the first legal transitionary period (lmao) and it all got topped off with managing the blowout of May's happy snap election fun time.
Thus going the long route, we have already had to do everything at the same time, now we're just going to have to do it all again. How many times do we have to offend countries by sending them Boris? Is once not enough?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 19, 2018, 06:08:33 pm

Quote from: Sheb on April 18, 2018, 01:04:56 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 18, 2018, 09:54:52 am

Ah, melodrama. The remoaner's calling card :P

Are you talking to me?

Em, no.
I was referring to the "some men just want to watch the world burn" GIF.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 19, 2018, 06:43:12 pm

How can I be a remoaner when I'm neither British nor residing in the UK?  ???
I basically sit on the sidelines and watch the political drama  unfold with morbid interest  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 19, 2018, 06:44:05 pm

I wasn't aware that "remoaner" and "morbid" aren't synonyms :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 20, 2018, 08:22:33 am

I did not read that correctly at all at first.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 20, 2018, 08:30:23 am

Quote from: scriver on April 20, 2018, 08:22:33 am

I did not read that correctly at all at first.

Yeah, I was like 'owner of iceland?' at first.

I assume they did it for the environmental impact that palm oil farming has.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 20, 2018, 08:33:46 am

Sad part is that it's probably going to work because people are gonna see the attacks and not make the two second thinking effort of asking the question who and why is attacking him.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 20, 2018, 08:39:32 am

If I were ever in  United Kingdom, Spain, Ireland, Jersey, Czech Republic, Iceland, Guernsey, Malta, Portugal or Libya, I would too.

And yeah, Iceland does have three stores in Iceland, apparently, which is pretty funny. The Czech Republic and Libya were a bit out there too, but wikipedia says they exist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 20, 2018, 08:41:11 am

But has anyone really asked the question of why is attacking him?

I was under the impression that most people knew about palm oil being a bad thing these days, so...Yeah. It's like Enron trying to smear someone.

Also... "Faces of Palm Oil"? What a terrible name for a campaign. That just conjures images of acne to my mind.


And... Iceland is the name of a store chain? Huh. Learn something new every day!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 20, 2018, 08:49:58 am

Thing is, it's much easier to attack and fling shit than it is to defend against it (or ignore it for that matter), it's especially true these days where you can churn it out and spreat it around before folks have time to react.

And sure, people are berating them about it on their tweet, but that's folks who cared enough to respond to it, how many people are out there that just shared it without checking it or folks who think that just because the dude is rich and powerful he has to be a scumbag and finally here's someone calling him out on it.

While I'd love to see it blow up in their faces in a spectacular fashion I seriously doubt they'll have any consequences from this, aside from not being stocked by a single supermarket chain (tho that was happening anyways and I doubt they changed his mind about it).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on April 20, 2018, 04:57:52 pm

Palm oil, I think I can guess what is happening. Having looked into the history and mechanisms of the industry. They run on ruthless exploitation and totally unethical practices. Corruption, murder, waste dumping, excreta. They are the agribusiness version of the bloody pat of the mining industry. I'm going to guess they are using the "jobs" argument. Conveniently ignoring the fact that they employ people in slave conditions and destroyed their livelihood effectively forcing them to work for them. I hate it when people make the "jobs" argument. Ignoring all context and in general acting like company shills. Using the same excuses for ignoring bad practices and work conditions that have been made sense the start of industry and are no more valid today then back then.

Short version, palm oil is a super evil industry. Don't feel sorry for them. Their arguments are all deceptive lies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 22, 2018, 12:02:46 pm

Over 300 French prominents have published a manifesto in newspaper Le Parisien, against antisemitism in France.
They write that 'in France, the country of Emile Zola and Clemenceau, a silent ethnic cleansing is taking place'. Since 2006, 11 jews have been murdered by radical muslims.
In just 10 years time, over 10% of the jewish population of Paris have fled the country, mostly to Israel.
Especially from the empoverished banlieux around Paris, many jews have moved out.
France is a 'theatre of murderous antisemitism that gets way too little attention'.

Among the signatories are philosophers (Elisabeth Badinter, Alain Finkielkraut, Luc Ferry), politicians (former president Sarkozy, former premier Valls, former mayor of Paris Delanoë), and artists (Carla Bruni, Charles Aznavour, Gérard Depardieu, Françoise Hardy)

In France, a jew is 25 times more at risk of becoming victim of insult or assault than a muslim. Yet, for some reason there is more media attention for islamophobia than there is for antisemitism, according to the signatories.
'Why this silence? Because islamic radicalization - and the antisemitism it brings - is considered by a large part of the French elite to be an expression of social revolt.
A wrong interpretation, because the same radicalization is also to be seen in completely different nations like Denmark, Afghanistan, Mali, and Germany'.

'Next to that there is the radical, antizionistic left, which paints the torturers of jews as victims of the system.
Simple electoral statistics also play a role. There are ten times as many muslim voters as there are jewish voters in France'.

The concern about antisemitism in islamic circles is not new to France.
In 2006, the jewish man Ilan Halimi was kidnapped and killed by a group calling themselves 'the Gang of Barbarians'. The gang members, all muslims, genuinely thought that all jews are rich, and thought they could get a ransom.
In 2012 Mohamed Mereh shot 3 children and a teacher at a jewish school in Toulouse.
In 2015, Amedi Coulibaly killed 4 people in a jewish supermarket in Paris.
In 2017, 65-year old Sarah Halimi was tortured and killed by her muslim neighbor, while he was recting verses from the Qu'ran.
Not very long ago, 85-year old Mireille Knoll was murdered in Paris. Main suspect is her muslim neighbor who thought she had money because she is jewish.

At the silent march to honour Mireille Knoll, imams also were present. The fact that those needed police protection from their own flock says enough about how French muslims are terrorised by islamists.

The signatories of the manifesto demand that not just the French state, but also muslims will have to do more to banish anti-semitism from islam.

'We demand that those verses in the Qu'ran that call for killing or otherwise punishing jews, christians, and unbelievers are scrapped from the Qu'ran by religious authorities, just like incoherence and antisemitism were removed from the Bible by the Second Vatican Council'.

http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/manifeste-contre-le-nouvel-antisemitisme-21-04-2018-7676787.php

Inb4 France bans the Qu'ran

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 22, 2018, 01:11:57 pm

That is... An interesting request. I mean, there have always been interpretations and reinterpretations of the hadiths (see: moderate-ish imams agreeing that Muslims in Norway should follow the spirit of Ramadan, and treat the day as having however many hours of daylight that Mecca has, rather than the 23 or so hours they can end up experiencing), but I feel like that particular wording is just going to spark a bunch more angry responses.

And damn... You've gotta be some real kind of genius to kidnap someone because you wanna get some of that secret Jew gold.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on April 22, 2018, 02:36:19 pm

That's an impossible demand and they know it. There is no caliph (and only ISIS boys claim the position and fuck them) or any other religious authority over all muslims. Radical imams will keep doing their stuff as they have no authority above them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 22, 2018, 02:45:57 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 20, 2018, 08:35:29 am

Quote from: Jopax on April 20, 2018, 08:33:46 am

Sad part is that it's probably going to work because people are gonna see the attacks and not make the two second thinking effort of asking the question who and why is attacking him.

Judging by the replies to their tweet about it, it's not working. Everyone's calling them out on fallacious arguments and outright bullshit they're peddling. Meanwhile, a lot of people have been stating that in support, they're going to be shopping at Iceland.

I'll probably go visit it next time I go and do some shopping.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one Jopax. While, greatorder, I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture here: attacking him is free publicity for the cause, e.g. the Steissand Effect. People aren't going to boycott the shop because some company smears his name, more people now know the name "Iceland", and who the managing director is, than did before, and that he wants to remove some obscure food additive, while they want to keep it. If something is being removed, people these days will just assume it's probably not a good thing by default, or otherwise they have to wonder why people are talking about removing it. Especially something like an oil or a fat, since "fat is bad" has been drummed into people for 5 decades.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 22, 2018, 04:46:47 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 22, 2018, 12:02:46 pm

-snip-

While the antisemitism is obvious and troubling, as is this parisian exodus... I'm not sure it's reached actual ethnic cleansing levels. 11 kills in 12 years is not exactly a high count.

Also what Kagus and STT said about their request. Those 300+ proeminents are asking for trouble by wording it like that, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 22, 2018, 05:38:00 pm

People being driven from their homes are still an ethnic cleansing even if few of them are being murdered.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 22, 2018, 06:07:58 pm

Oops sorry, I mis-interpreted the quote tree there.

BTW I think that article Martinez repeated warrants a close look at the claims involved. e.g. blaming "the left" is a big giveaway, as are claims downplaying violence against muslims as "25 times less likely" - i can't find any sources that corroborate those figures. e.g back in 2015:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12075018/Hate-crimes-against-Muslims-and-Jews-soar-in-France.html

Quote

More than 400 incidents of an "Islamophobic" nature, including assaults, harassment and criminal damage, were reported to the authorities in 2015, up from 133 in the previous year. From January to May, 508 antisemitic crimes were recorded, a rise of 84 per cent compared to the same months in 2014. Figures for the full year are still being compiled.

I found a list of french hate crimes in 2016, there were 12 against Jews and almost 60 against muslims, which given the larger number of muslims (10 times as many) suggests Jews about twice as likely to suffer attacks than Muslims, not 25 times. And articles claim the rate of anti-jewish crimes has falled by about 50% a year since then:

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-what-s-behind-the-drop-in-anti-semitic-incidents-in-france-1.5465733

Quote

“Let us not forget that we are winning this struggle,” President Emmanuel Macron told school pupils in September. Statistically, at least, he’s right: Anti-Semitic incidents have been declining steadily in the country over the past two years.
...
According to official reports, the number of anti-Semitic incidents in France has decreased by 58 percent over the past year.

With the decline in anti-Jewish crimes from 2016 when they were twice as likely to suffer attacks to now, that leads to the conclusions in this article:

http://time.com/5220830/france-anti-semitism-mireille-knoll/

Quote

Official statistics show a complicated picture of racist incidents, and suggest that other minorities, such as Muslims, are regularly harassed and are at least equally at risk of hate crimes as Jews.

It's also a bit of a red flag when isolated small incidents are listed from several years apart, to illustrate what's supposed to be a rising trend. With a murder rate of 1.58 per 100,000 people and 65 million people, that's about 1000 french murder victims per year. citing 12 murders across 12 years, of jews by a muslim isn't necessarily statistically significant: that's only 0.1% of the murder rate, so it wouldn't be hard to dredge up purely unrelated incidents and put them in a list. I'm pretty sure that if I only needed to dredge up 0.1% of murders to prove that ethnicity A is killing ethnicity B, I could prove that for virtually any pair of ethnicities.

While not necessarily wrong, when a source relies on extremely isolated incidents to make such point, that's usually a warning sign that looking at the incidents will reveal a different narrative to the one claimed. e.g. the very first one I look at was this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sarah_Halimi

The guy was a crazed drug addict who'd just had a domestic dispute, broke into the apartment of some non-jewish people, and attacked them, then when they locked themselves in the bedroom to protect themselves, he climbed out the window to their balcony and was able to enter the Jewish woman's house through her balcony. Basically a mentally ill drug addict from Mali had a domestic dispute attacked some random non-jewish people in their apartment first then entered the apartment of the jewish woman - basically the whole thing was mostly a coincidence, and not a planned attack on her for being Jewish. She just happened to have her balcony next to the balcony of the first family.

Sure, it's terrible, but it also seems like a completely random incident in which the ethnicities of both victim and perpetrator could have been largely a coincidence. After all, you have 999 other murders in France every year so it can't be all that difficult to drum up a few that match whatever racial / ethnic theories you'd like. e.g. the USA estimates that about 10% of France are muslim, then all else being equal you'd expect them to commit 10% of the murders, or 100 murders per year. Then, since Jews consist of about 1% of the population, you'd expect that around 1% of those victims would be jews - purely by chance, or 1 victim per year / 12 victims over 12 years, which is the number on the complete list provided by martinez's source. So while no attacks are insignificant, a list of anecdotes is not proof when the entire list falls within the bounds of what you'd expect purely from random chance / averages.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 22, 2018, 06:43:04 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 22, 2018, 05:38:00 pm

People being driven from their homes are still an ethnic cleansing even if few of them are being murdered.

I suppose it could be. It's just that I'm more used to seeing that paired up with genocide (or attempted genocide).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 22, 2018, 07:16:28 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 22, 2018, 06:43:04 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 22, 2018, 05:38:00 pm

People being driven from their homes are still an ethnic cleansing even if few of them are being murdered.

I suppose it could be. It's just that I'm more used to seeing that paired up with genocide (or attempted genocide).

I mean, I'm definitely of the opinion that the removal of a people from their home area is genocide (or at least attempted) as well. Genocide isn't simply the murder of people, as in many individuals, but the murder of a people. For supposedly "homeless" peoples like the Jews it gets a little more complicated but I feel fairly confident that 2000-ish years should let them be counted as a firmly rooted European nation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 22, 2018, 07:45:07 pm

Some people dispute what is "really" genocide, usually to downplay some incident. The problem with "really" genocide is that it's a neologism (made up word) coined in 1944 then ratified as a legal definition by the UN in 1948. So as for there being a "real" definition of genocide that's more stringent than the UN's definition, that's bullshit since the term only has meaning within the UN framework. There is no pre-existing English definition of the term since it didn't exist before. e.g. people complaining that what their group doing to another group isn't "true" genocide is fairly meaningless since the term was only really defined in 1948 by legal fiat.

http://www.un.org/ar/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf

Quote

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

See especially Section 6, genocidal acts and Section 7 Evidence of intent “to destroy in whole or in part ...”

you can see for example that the KKK / Jim Crow / Tuskagee medical experiments / harsh policing and mass-arrests of black men / murder of Martin Luther king / shootings of blacks / intimidation of black voters, etc etc, all fall under the definition of genocidal acts and motivations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2018, 01:18:51 am

What exactly is the point you're trying to make, Reelya? Because it feels to me that you're either arguing that A, The driving of a people from it's home isn't genocide; or B, that I can't define or have another opinion on the concept of what makes the killing of a people beyond what the UN convention juridicia says (both to which I tip my bullshit hat right back at ya mate).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 23, 2018, 01:56:23 am

Who the fuck cares if a word definition existed before WW2 or no?

It's like saying ... "there's no LGBT definition from before 1980, so you can't be gay if you're born before that"

<Joins the tipping of bullshit hat crowd>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 23, 2018, 02:07:29 am

I think they are two different, closely linked concepts. Eg: genocide would fall within the broader category of ethnic cleansing. So you could argue that the definition is a bit different, . For practical purposes however, I think you'd be hard pressed to find instances of ethnic cleansing that didn't qualify as genocide.  Eg: even when the campaign isnt about killing everyone from the onset, the involved parties seldom want to move people into *nice*  places

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2018, 02:34:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 23, 2018, 01:56:23 am

Who the fuck cares if a word definition existed before WW2 or no?

It's like saying ... "there's no LGBT definition from before 1980, so you can't be gay if you're born before that"

<Joins the tipping of bullshit hat crowd>

From what I understand, it would be like if LGBT was a term invented by the government for the purpose of an equality law or something, but then people started saying that that definition wasnt correct and that person X isn’t “truly” LGBT?


Also unless I deeply missed the point of Reelyas post they were saying that Genocide is a much more inclusive term than deniers would have you believe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2018, 05:18:57 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2018, 02:34:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 23, 2018, 01:56:23 am

Who the fuck cares if a word definition existed before WW2 or no?

It's like saying ... "there's no LGBT definition from before 1980, so you can't be gay if you're born before that"

<Joins the tipping of bullshit hat crowd>

From what I understand, it would be like if LGBT was a term invented by the government for the purpose of an equality law or something, but then people started saying that that definition wasnt correct and that person X isn’t “truly” LGBT?


Also unless I deeply missed the point of Reelyas post they were saying that Genocide is a much more inclusive term than deniers would have you believe.

Except nobody said that X is "not truly genocide", and Reelya seemingly was responding to me stating how I think genocide makes up more than just murdering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 23, 2018, 05:27:44 am

I think Reelya might just be experiencing some kind of weird forum layout bugginess or somesuch. There have been multiple posts in fairly short order that, while well-sourced and backed up, were in response to things that hadn't been said.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2018, 01:42:06 pm

Germany is in uproar, after the German Jewish Council advised jews in Germany to stop wearing kippahs earlier today, because those put jews at risk of becoming victims of aggression.
Instead, it would be wise to wear a baseball cap, or other non-religious hat to cover the head, according to president of the council Josef Schuster.

Last week, an Israeli student was assaulted by 3 men, of whom one started beating him with a belt while shouting 'Jehudi' (arab for jew).
The victim, Adam Armush, later says in an interview with Deutsche Welle, that he decided to film the incident, to have evidence for the police, and to show the world how terrifying it is to walk in the streets of Berlin as a jew.

Armush himself isn't even jewish. He was raised in Israel as a member of an arab family. The kippah he was wearing was given to him by a jewish friend, who had even warned him that wearing it would be a risk. Armush couldn't imagine that was really true, so he decided to wear it to prove the opposite.

What also struck him, that of all the people walking on the streets witnessing the incident, no one rushed to his aid except one woman.
Tomorrow a large protest march is planned in Berlin against antisemitism and intolerance. People are encouraged to wear a kippah while attending.
Meanwhile, the assailant has reported himself to the police. It is a 19-year old refugee from Syria.

Angela Merkel promised on Israeli tv this weekend that she would do anything in her power to safeguard the jewish population in Germany. She called it a new phenomena, hate and violence against jews by migrants from arab countries, who have brought a new type of antisemitism.
"It did exist before that though", she said. "It is tragic that we cannot have jewish Kintergartens, schools or synagogues without permanent police protection".

Statistics from teh German police show antisemitism to have risen sharply in the past year. Antisemitic incidents doubled in 2017 compared to 2016.

"Three years ago I warned to not wear a kippah in neighborhoods that house a lot of arabs", Joseph Schuster tells Deutsche Welle. "This incident however took place in a trendy, wealthy neighborhood. That is a whole new dimension".

https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/duitse-joodse-raad-verstandiger-om-baseballpetje-te-dragen-in-plaats-van-een-keppeltje~a4595682/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/duitse-joodse-raad-verstandiger-om-baseballpetje-te-dragen-in-plaats-van-een-keppeltje~a4595682/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 24, 2018, 01:45:01 pm

Quote from: Kagus on April 23, 2018, 05:27:44 am

I think Reelya might just be experiencing some kind of weird forum layout bugginess or somesuch. There have been multiple posts in fairly short order that, while well-sourced and backed up, were in response to things that hadn't been said.

No, i just thought you were responding to a different post than the one you were responding to. probably because the waffle house shooting was a big deal that I was reading about, and reading about someone who got sacked from a job didn't register with me as being what you were responding to.

Quote

Except nobody said that X is "not truly genocide", and Reelya seemingly was responding to me stating how I think genocide makes up more than just murdering.

I said "some people" not "some people in this forum", for clarification, if needed. It was just an observation: "what counts as genocide" which is what Scriver was starting on just before (although innocently) is often the pre-cursor to some ... questionable stuff, usually related to deniers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- aboriginals in Australia. if you read the UN definition, and read the history, Australia's treatment of aboriginals meets several criteria from both the actions and motives sections. People will swear blind that it wasn't genocide if you bring it up however, because there are "still aboriginals" alive or "there are more aboriginals alive now" as though this disproves genocide claims.

- Israel herding Palestinians into compounds while taking their land. Has strong similarities with the Nazis debating e.g. the "madagascar solution" up to 1941. Some people will counter claims of genocide with "but there are more Palestinians alive now".

- Holocaust, WWII. Deniers sometimes bring up a graph that shows that the number of Jews at some point after WWII was greater than the number before it as "disproving" the holocaust.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2018, 01:55:15 pm

U wut? You are calling what Israel is doing in Gaza genocide? And then you call me right-wing? Really?
Sure it is a clusterfuck there, and both Likud and Hamas bear part of the blame, as does colonial history, and as do the arab nations.
But Israel genociding Palestines? No. Genocide is sadly what the surrounding arab countries want to do with Israel.
Note that Israel has never sworn to drive all arabs into the sea, as quite a few arab rulers have sworn to do to Israel.

Maybe if Hamas hadn't called for bloody intifadas, or sent suicide attackers and missiles into Israel for decades there would have been no incentive to segregate.

EDIT: I would agree to call Israel's illegal colonization 'ethnic cleansing' though. But that is something different than genocide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 24, 2018, 01:58:19 pm

I would like to note that the pro-palestine stance exists on both left and right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2018, 02:00:34 pm

You have 'Israel is discriminating, segregating and oppressing Palestinians' in the left wing spectrum, yes. I agree on most of that even, except the generalization. There's many Israeli that would like to see things differently.

But the 'Israel is genociding Palestinians' is mostly reserved by the extreme-far-right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 24, 2018, 02:03:34 pm

Didn't we just go over this? The forceful relocating of a people is technically classed as genocide, even if no overt killing was involved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 24, 2018, 02:04:22 pm

not so, which is why I brought up the legal definition of genocide.

https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective

Quote

While there has been recent criticism of those taking the position that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, there is a long history of human rights scholarship and legal analysis that supports the assertion. Prominent scholars of the international law crime of genocide and human rights authorities take the position that Israel’s policies toward the Palestinian people could constitute a form of genocide. Those policies range from the 1948 mass killing and displacement of Palestinians to a half-century of military occupation and, correspondingly, the discriminatory legal regime governing Palestinians, repeated military assaults on Gaza, and official Israeli statements expressly favoring the elimination of Palestinians.

Genocide is a term that has both sociological and legal meaning. The term genocide was coined in 1944 by a Jewish Polish legal scholar, Raphael Lemkin. For Lemkin, “the term does not necessarily signify mass killings.” He explained:

    More often [genocide] refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight. The end may be accomplished by the forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion. It may be accomplished by wiping out all basis of personal security, liberty, health and dignity. When these means fail the machine gun can always be utilized as a last resort. Genocide is directed against a national group as an entity and the attack on individuals is only secondary to the annihilation of the national group to which they belong.

It's not hard to collate a list of things Israel is doing that seem orchestrated to cause the demise of "palestinian" as an ethnic group, according to Lemkin's definition. Banning flags (https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/israel-plans-reintroduce-ban-palestinian-flag), banning (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/israel-civil-marriage-ban_n_3429764.html) marriage  (https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-marriage-ban-closes-gates-palestinians/5972)- laws to restrict marriages and having children are actually explicitly listed in the known genocide tactics in the UN's legal definition of genocide, and Israel does this ... attempts to ban or downgrade the use of arabic language, herding people off their ancestral lands, preventing worship at their religious sites, etc etc. all count as part of genocide according to Raphael Lemkin - the guy who coined the term in the first place, and the basis for the term as a legal crime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2018, 02:24:41 pm

Perhaps that is the legal definition in the US, according to a US non profit organisation. Israel is not in the US though.
The official legal definiton of Genocide according to the UN, as stated in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1948, and adopted by the ICC is as follows:

... any of the following acts committed with

intent to destroy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#"Intent_to_destroy"), in whole or in part (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#"In_part"), a national (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation), ethnical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic), racial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial) or religious (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious) group, as such:

• (a) Killing members of the group;
• (b) Causing serious bodily harm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodily_harm), or harm to mental health (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health), to members of the group;
• (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
• (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
• (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

  Some would argue that (c) is taking place in Gaza, but I have to disagree. Gaza's isolation is not as desperate that people can do nothing but lay down and die. It's not impossible to provide a living for oneself in Gaza. Israel does not systematically withold food, water or humanitarian aid from Gaza. Hamas does, and then tells their voters it's Israel doing that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 24, 2018, 02:30:02 pm

well they've consistently done (a), just look up accounts of settlers attacking local arabs. they've done (b) including by blockading food aid, medical supplies and the like from the occupied territories, among other things. (c) I'd argue, is clear, see the last bajillion articles, some below. (d) can be inferred from things like banning married palestinians from living together and similar laws.

Regarding the situation in Gaza, it's not hard to find sources disputing what you're saying:

https://www.ochaopt.org/theme/gaza-blockade

Quote

Israel has imposed movement restrictions on the Gaza Strip since the early 1990’s. Restrictions intensified in June 2007, following the takeover of that part of the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) by Hamas, when Israel imposed a land, sea and air blockade on Gaza, citing security concerns. Despite relaxation of some blockade-related restrictions in recent years, 1.8 million Palestinians in Gaza remain ‘locked in’, denied free access to the remainder of the territory and the outside world. The blockade has undermined the living conditions in the coastal enclave and fragmented the oPt and its economic and social fabric.

And Israel's blockade does, e.g. prevent Gaza from having working water supplies. They had to beg the EU to help them, but it's not really enough.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-water/gazas-water-shortage-worsening-no-easy-solutions-seen-idUSKBN15A1FC
It took 20 years of negotiation to get the Israelis to agree to sell them a little water, which ended up being a whopping 2.5% of their total needs. meanwhile, the aquifer is running out.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/02/13/israel-record-low-gaza-medical-permits

Quote

(Jerusalem) – The record-low rate of permits issued by Israel for Palestinians seeking vital medical treatment outside Gaza underlines the urgent need for Israel to end its decade-long closure of the Gaza Strip, Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Medical Aid for Palestinians (MAP), and Physicians for Human Rights Israel (PHRI) said today in a joint statement.

Israeli authorities approved permits for medical appointments for only 54 percent of those who applied in 2017, the lowest rate since the World Health Organization (WHO) began collecting figures in 2008. WHO reported that 54 Palestinians, 46 of whom had cancer, died in 2017 following denial or delay of their permits.

“We’re seeing Israel increasingly deny or delay access to potentially life-saving cancer and other treatment outside Gaza, with shockingly high numbers of Palestinian patients subsequently dying, while Gaza’s healthcare system – subjected to half a century of occupation and a decade of blockade – is decreasingly able to meet the needs of its population,” said Aimee Shalan, CEO of MAP.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 27, 2018, 04:24:31 pm

Spoiler: NSFW rendition of reasons the UK should not exist (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/1T7YK0O.jpg)

Can anyone stop the rise of the hard left? Is the future of the UK a hung parliament? Will Ed Balls rejoin the cabinet? Can the Prime Minister handle an out of control Johnson? Can Jezza stop Tories from giving him a soft Brexit?

These are important questions which must be covered by the BBC.

Also how screwed up is it that even in r34, the greens are more relevant than the libdems oh my god that's grim ahahah, when you lose to the GREENS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 27, 2018, 04:27:28 pm

From the looks of that poster, it might be a well hung parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2018, 04:08:42 pm

The nuclear reactor in Doel (Belgium) has been shut down, after a leakage was discovered in the reactor.
The government states that there is no danger to the public.
The power plant management says that fixing the leak is very difficult, because it is in the most radioactive part of the reactor, and safety of employees is primary concern.

It's not the first time this reactor has been shut down because of problems.
Slightly concerned, cause it's not that far from my home town. Doel lies at the border of the Netherlands and Belgium. The Doel reactor has been subject of political dispute between Belgium and the Netherlands, for safety reasons.

Doel was also the prime cause for the Belgian government to mass distribute iodine tablets to everyone within a certain radius of the reactor, just a few months ago. They damn well know the thing is old, and has safety issues, but they refuse to shut it down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 28, 2018, 05:16:16 pm

If it’s the only thing supplying power to the region then yeah, I can’t imagine the government is willing to shut it down.

However, you would hope they’re trying to remedy that so they can shut it down safely, before that choice is forced upon them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2018, 05:18:33 pm

I'm intrigued as to whether there may be an unintended side effect of a great reduction in diseases related to iodine deficiency in Belgium

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2018, 05:30:54 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2018, 05:18:33 pm

I'm intrigued as to whether there may be an unintended side effect of a great reduction in diseases related to iodine deficiency in Belgium

Short answer is "no"
Longer answer: iodine deficiency is not a major problem in the developed world, as access to salt enriched with iodine is widespread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2018, 05:35:37 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2018, 05:18:33 pm

I'm intrigued as to whether there may be an unintended side effect of a great reduction in diseases related to iodine deficiency in Belgium

They haven't taken the pills yet, it's just that everyone got them delivered by mail (I think, maybe they had to go collect them at the nearest pharmacy), with the instructions only to use them in case of nuclear disaster.

EDIT: hmm. de Volkskrant report on the Doel reactor says the leak is not radioactive. It is a leak in the emergency cooling system for preventing meltdowns. Repairs are expected to take months, I guess to get to the leak repairmen will still need to cross radioactive territory.

Late last year, Greenpeace described the Doel reactor as 'vulnerable'. A plane crash, or terrorist attack is a bigger concern than technical failure, because the cooling basins for temporary storage of reactor fuel are situated outside of the reactor bunker.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 28, 2018, 08:11:26 pm

I guess nobody bothered while desiging said reactor to think about how people would carry out repairs in places otherwise too radioactive to venture into.

A leak in the emergency system is still pretty bad though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2018, 12:56:24 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2018, 05:30:54 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2018, 05:18:33 pm

I'm intrigued as to whether there may be an unintended side effect of a great reduction in diseases related to iodine deficiency in Belgium

Short answer is "no"
Longer answer: iodine deficiency is not a major problem in the developed world, as access to salt enriched with iodine is widespread

Widespread but not universally adopted, problems remain problems even after their severity has reduced, much in the same way that tooth decay remains an issue despite its reduction in severity.

Quote from: smjjames on April 28, 2018, 08:11:26 pm

I guess nobody bothered while desiging said reactor to think about how people would carry out repairs in places otherwise too radioactive to venture into.

A leak in the emergency system is still pretty bad though.

If the Soviets and Japan are any example to go by, in the event of a disastrous leak with radiation rendering safe repair inadvisable, you send in people who are willing to die or do not know the risks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 29, 2018, 07:57:51 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 29, 2018, 07:08:11 pm

Well, a certain Amber Rudd has resigned after repeatedly lying to MPs (though she insists she "accidentally misled" them. For the record, she made up stuff, got proven wrong, made an excuse, and the excuse was shown to be a lie). Not exactly sure what this means for the government right now, but I suspect it's gonna cause a loss of confidence in it across the UK.

I guess we finally find out if the UK confidence-in-government meter has an integer underflow error and wraps around to 255%

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2018, 04:03:42 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 29, 2018, 07:08:11 pm

Well, a certain Amber Rudd has resigned after repeatedly lying to MPs (though she insists she "accidentally misled" them. For the record, she made up stuff, got proven wrong, made an excuse, and the excuse was shown to be a lie). Not exactly sure what this means for the government right now, but I suspect it's gonna cause a loss of confidence in it across the UK.

ABOUT FUCKING TIME :D

For context, the lie she made was really fucking blatant too. She said the UK government did not have a deportation quota, Amber Rudd said there were no such quotas, some sneeky breeky lad or lady leaked documents from the Home Office that there were quotas, Amber Rudd denied any knowledge of these documents - which then prompted calls from oppostion benchers, "how the /f do you not know what goes on in your department?" To which I presume she responded "lel idk" and resigned. She didn't understand security, immigration or the internet, she never should have been put in charge in the first place.

Her replacement Sajid Javid is an unknown quantity to me. His faith, his foreign policy have thus far made a good impression upon me, as have criticisms levied against him that he is as Tory as Tory gets. Yet his choice of criticisms against others leaves me with the impression that he is like the rest, an unimaginative politician amidst a sea of unimaginative politicians, as shown in his choice of the Tory power pose:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aLsvchg.png)

That Thatcher is his guiding idol in political principle concerns me, that his guiding idol in philosophical principles is Ayn Rand deeply concerns me, and makes me wonder if replacing Amber Rudd with Sajid Javid was like replacing the Yorkshire Terrier with a Wolf.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 30, 2018, 04:22:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2018, 04:03:42 pm

as shown in his choice of the Tory power pose:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aLsvchg.png)

Is... is that considered a power pose in Britain? :|

It looks like he pissed himself twenty minutes ago and has only just gotten up to deal with it, tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 30, 2018, 04:37:31 pm

I also read in the BBC that Theresa May could be in further trouble over it, more of a ‘what did you know and when’, since one MP is calling for May to answer questions about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2018, 04:39:35 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on April 30, 2018, 04:22:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2018, 04:03:42 pm

as shown in his choice of the Tory power pose:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aLsvchg.png)

Is... is that considered a power pose in Britain? :|

It looks like he pissed himself twenty minutes ago and has only just gotten up to deal with it, tbh.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/w4zvl0J.png)

British politicians assert dominance through ritual combat centered around the strength of their calves. Through the power stance, where they demonstrate the wide expanse of their calves' reach, politicians are capable of sizing one another up without risking their precious calves in actual combat.

*This goes back in history.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/zGzk5Ko.jpg)

Authority figures often deploy it to denote that they are in charge of the situation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/NPpqQrr.jpg)

Here the notable actor Aidan Gillen adopts the power stance to denote his characters feel comfortable and in charge.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/oaqB6hz.png)

The most obviously wide by far was Cecil Rhodes, whose calves stretched from Cape to Cairo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/82H9es6.png)

Queen Elizabeth I pictured here standing on England. No wide stance here though, as she was the virgin Queen and that would be rather unbecoming in those days, but the message is clear: I am the metaphorically widest, as shown by my hips.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/OC4GQ3t.jpg)

The Romans were known for defeating their enemies with potent power stance formations.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/eAPbA1T.png)

Queen Boudicaa of the Iceni, here flipping off the Romans whilst power stancing on a war chariot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/GR6byP2.png)

Stonehenge is in fact the first recorded power stance in human history

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 30, 2018, 05:13:05 pm

Y'know, I'd heard somewhere that the chariot was as useful as it was in Egypt because they had a lot of nice flattish desert to ride around on, without all the bumps and rocks and shrubs of other regions.

Which makes me wonder just what exactly ancient Britain must have looked like if the locals felt that chariots were a good idea there, too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on April 30, 2018, 05:46:45 pm

Let's just say that in the context of Victoria 2 being called an Anarcho-Liberal is the worst insult one could fling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 30, 2018, 05:47:58 pm

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2018, 05:25:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 30, 2018, 04:03:42 pm

That Thatcher is his guiding idol in political principle concerns me, that his guiding idol in philosophical principles is Ayn Rand

Please tell me you're joking. Because the more I learn about Ayn Rand, the more she seems like the guiding light of the bloody Anarcho-Liberals from Victoria 2

There are still a lot of folks who idolize Ayn Rand, despite most likely not knowing anything about her other than that she wrote some big books this one time. Atlas Shrugged is a centerpiece of any respectable unread personal library.

Also, my phone's predictive text is fun to play with. After "Ayn Rand Paul and I don't think" and "Atlas Shrugged off the cone", I'm half tempted to just let it write a post full of nonsense.

Pretty sure no one would know the difference anyways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2018, 07:00:15 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 30, 2018, 05:13:05 pm

Y'know, I'd heard somewhere that the chariot was as useful as it was in Egypt because they had a lot of nice flattish desert to ride around on, without all the bumps and rocks and shrubs of other regions.

Which makes me wonder just what exactly ancient Britain must have looked like if the locals felt that chariots were a good idea there, too.

Loadsa forests and marshes. Egyptians had mass chariots, celtic Britain kept their charioteers to use by their elite warriors. Might have also been a procurement issue, as Egypt assembly line factory-manufactured their chariots while the celts had theirs made by craftsmen, who were obviously much slower. The chariots were useful in fending off the first Roman incursions through hit and run tactics, as it allowed the celtic skirmishers to avoid any decisive engagements with the Romans. This strategy fell apart when the Romans began occupying and entrenching themselves in Britannia, gradually annexing tribe after tribe, attacking their Forts and food stores in order to force the celts into battle.

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2018, 05:48:12 pm

I'm saying "Please tell me you're joking that the guy looks up to those two, *especially* Ayn Rand."

Quote

Just before Christmas, Sajid Javid performed a ritual he has observed twice a year throughout his adult life: he read the courtroom scene in The Fountainhead.

It's all ogre now (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/the-ayn-rand-scene-sajid-javid-reads-every-year/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2018, 08:08:55 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2018, 07:00:15 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 30, 2018, 05:13:05 pm

Y'know, I'd heard somewhere that the chariot was as useful as it was in Egypt because they had a lot of nice flattish desert to ride around on, without all the bumps and rocks and shrubs of other regions.

Which makes me wonder just what exactly ancient Britain must have looked like if the locals felt that chariots were a good idea there, too.

Loadsa forests and marshes. Egyptians had mass chariots, celtic Britain kept their charioteers to use by their elite warriors. Might have also been a procurement issue, as Egypt assembly line factory-manufactured their chariots while the celts had theirs made by craftsmen, who were obviously much slower. The chariots were useful in fending off the first Roman incursions through hit and run tactics, as it allowed the celtic skirmishers to avoid any decisive engagements with the Romans. This strategy fell apart when the Romans began occupying and entrenching themselves in Britannia, gradually annexing tribe after tribe, attacking their Forts and food stores in order to force the celts into battle.

Chariots might also have worked as a power symbol in itself. Compare the viking age Norse, who even though chariots had gone completely out of style in their society (as far as I know, only a few then-comtemporary chariots have ever been found - in burial mounds, likely as a symbol of wealth) was very particular about how their gods travelled with chariots (and what animals drove them). I don't think Norsemen every drove chariots into battle the way Brits or Egyptians did though. If their use would ever have been widespread it is likelier they would have used them the same way they used horses - never as cavalry, they simply rode the horses to the battlefield, then dismounted and fought on foot.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2018, 07:00:15 am

Quote from: greatorder on April 30, 2018, 05:48:12 pm

I'm saying "Please tell me you're joking that the guy looks up to those two, *especially* Ayn Rand."

Quote

Just before Christmas, Sajid Javid performed a ritual he has observed twice a year throughout his adult life: he read the courtroom scene in The Fountainhead.

It's all ogre now (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/the-ayn-rand-scene-sajid-javid-reads-every-year/)

Among Swedish parties it's the leader of the Centre Party, Annie "I AM NOT a neo-liberal!" Lööv who worships Ayn Rand. For reference, this is the party whose youth organisation wants to legalise necrophilia.

Neo-liberals. Neo-liberals everywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 01, 2018, 08:32:28 am

Kinda is dying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 01, 2018, 08:43:41 am

I'm reminded of a panel from an informative cartoon book on... Something or other, I forget which one it was.

Boy: "Granny, can necrophilia be consensual?"

Grandma: "Read my will!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 01, 2018, 09:04:22 am

Quote from: greatorder on May 01, 2018, 08:28:50 am

I still feel that neoliberalism needs to die. It's a shoddy system that was given a good trial run in the late 20th-early 21st century and it failed miserably.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnessing-death-neoliberalism-imf-economists

Quote

You hear it when the Bank of England’s Mark Carney sounds the alarm about “a low-growth, low-inflation, low-interest-rate equilibrium”

This is the reason for the short-sighted sell-offs of public assets - it creates a spasm of investment opportunities for the investor class. e.g. it wrings blood from a stone and creates the illusion of growth, for a while, but isn't sustainable. The big issue is the difference between an emerging economy - capable of rapid growth, and a mature economy. e.g. the mantra is that if we don't constantly produce more, and consume more, then the whole gravy train will derail: which explains the hostility to conservationism.

The problem is that now most nations have already sold off everything plausibly sold off, and they have to resort to talking about selling off things that don't make a whole lot of sense to sell off, like air traffic control, the national postal service*, main roads etc. The Neo-Liberal strategy thus far has been to forestall the plateau of a mature economy by finding new things to sell off, or getting rid of regulations / laws. e.g. say we loosen the law about how much of the metal lead is allowed in toothpaste, then we could open up a whole slew of business opportunities in putting lead waste into toothpaste, deliberately. * most countries never actually sells off the national post office even though it's a neo-liberal wet dream. Having a uniform stamp price is dependent on some people subsidizing other people, which breaks down if you leave it to pure market forces. And if you mandate that the newly-private post office must maintain price equity, then they react like the UK's privatized post office did and merely close down 20% of their branches.

EDIT: So, one of the main reasons neo-liberalism is flailing is that selling off public assets is one of their main tactics, for the above short-term thinking reasons, but it's sold to the public as being a long-term panacea. The problem is that that they sold everything off already so you can't really sell the "fire sale" solution any more.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2018, 09:23:32 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 01, 2018, 08:32:28 am

Kinda is dying.

The Swedish Social Democrats are right now doing an "inquiry" (not sure how to translate, basically a research done in preparation for a law suggestion) on whether people really should be able to freely unionise, and the right-wing wants to legally mandate lower-than-minimum-wage salaries for immigrants, so no, I'd say that neo-liberalism is still well and breathing and getting stronger every day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 01, 2018, 09:51:57 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 01, 2018, 08:32:28 am

Kinda is dying.

Public opinion is turning against them, but their power and wealth both in governmental and non-governmental institutions further entrenches

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 03:19:19 am

Quote from: scriver on May 01, 2018, 09:23:32 am

and the right-wing wants to legally mandate lower-than-minimum-wage salaries for immigrants, so no, I'd say that neo-liberalism is still well and breathing and getting stronger every day.

This can make some sense if done well. It's hard for new immigrants to compete with native Swedes when they just arrived if they have to be paid the same level. Now, for some migrants you could say though luck to them, but for those that you can't/don't want to deport if they can't sustain themselves (refugees mostly), you can end up trapping them out of employment, with all kind of negative consequences, both for the state's finance, for the integration of the refugees and so on.

This explain part of the reasons why employment rate for refugees is much higher in place like the US and Germany than Sweden or the Netherlands.

Letting them compete on wage for a few years while can give them the leg up they need to enter the job market, and get the experience they need to get jobs normally. I dunno about Sweden, but lots of countries do it for young people for that same reasons. In the UK minimum wage is 5.9 £/hour when you're 18, but raise top 7.83 £/hour when 25 or older. Belgium got a system where the minimum wage depends both on your age and your amount of work experience, although the variations are small, going from 1530 euros/month to 1590 for people over 20 with at least 12 month of experience. 

Obviously, there is also downsides to the idea, and scope for bad implementation causing more harm to the native workers, but the idea isn't entirely stupid and/or evil either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 02, 2018, 04:05:32 am

I'm aghast someone here would defend that bull. You actually think it's ok to mandate slave wages to immigrants, just because they are immigrants? It's utter crap, and harmful for both native workers AND foreigners. Sweet jebus, you think the latter will be happy on stsrvstion wage?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 04:19:08 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 02, 2018, 04:05:32 am

I'm aghast someone here would defend that bull. You actually think it's ok to mandate slave wages to immigrants, just because they are immigrants? It's utter crap, and harmful for both native workers AND foreigners. Sweet jebus, you think the latter will be happy on stsrvstion wage?

Well, I'm kinda split, I can see it working depending on implementation. 1) It should only apply to refugees and maybe a few other classes to avoid mass influx of guest worker abusing the provision. 2) It should be time-limited from the time the guy get the right to work. The idea is to make it easier to step into the marketplace like for young people, not create a permanent exemption to social laws. 3) It shouldn't be a mandate for low pay, and it shouldn't be starvation wage either. If a refugee can get a good-paying job, all the power to him. The goal is to make it easier to get a first job for people who otherwise couldn't get one, because they lack the experience, skills and language.

It's targeted at people who don't have a job. They're not going to be happy on unemployment benefits either.

Basically, think of it the same way as the lower minimum wage for young people*. It'd be a temporary exception for people entering the marketplace, except those people aren't entering it at 18 but at the time of the granting of their refugees status.


*Apparently Sweden does it already for young people at least in some sectors (minimum wage varies by sectors). For exemple, apparently in restaurant minimum wage is 84.5 SEK/hour at 17, 88.6 SEK/hour at 18 and it raise to 116.9 SEK/hour at 20, with more for people with a given level of experience. Do you think that system is "mandating slave wage"? Do you think that this statement:

Quote

I'm aghast someone here would defend that bull. You actually think it's ok to mandate slave wages to young people, just because they are young? It's utter crap, and harmful for both older people AND the youngs. Sweet jebus, you think the latter will be happy on stsrvstion wage?

is a fair description of this system? If not, what's the difference between this and what I was talking about?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 02, 2018, 04:34:46 am

I'm having trouble resorting to any kind of response that's not just a "lol no". I'm honestly dumb struck at how you, a grown person, could be that naive.

This is literally undermining the competitiveness of Swedish workers and actively causing salary standards to decrease, but that aside, this is also a direct attack at unions and what remains of the Swedish Model. Perhaps it should be noted that Sweden does not have a legal minimum wage but instead relies on the strength of the unions to define their own minimum wage. A system where immigrants can by legal authority be given salaries "below minimum wage" means that to be able to compete with them as potential employees established citizens must be outside the union system.

This is nothing else than a page out of the "workers should be cattle to herd" neoliberal thought line. First they say "we should let all of the people into our system - don't worry, it won't lower the standards for anybody!", then they let too many new people into the system for it to work properly and then they say "we have to lower the standards - but don't worry, it'll only be for the new people", and then before you know it you end up with a lowered standard for everybody except the 1% because of course you do. This is "if you don't like the system, break it, then say the system has failed" politics in action.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 02, 2018, 05:02:13 am

Oops wrong thread moved to Ameripol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 05:19:23 am

Quote from: scriver on May 02, 2018, 04:34:46 am

Meh, I don't know the details of the actual proposal, including enough who exactly is pushing it (Because your argument is mostly one of the slippery slope kind rather than an attack on the proposal itself. Which doesn't make your objection not valid, but I'm just pointing that out so we avoid talking past each others). I just wanted to say that there can be a good rationale beyond just hating workers for that kind of proposal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 02, 2018, 05:29:00 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 02, 2018, 04:05:32 am

I'm aghast someone here would defend that bull. You actually think it's ok to mandate slave wages to immigrants, just because they are immigrants? It's utter crap, and harmful for both native workers AND foreigners. Sweet jebus, you think the latter will be happy on stsrvstion wage?

^^

Yeah, Sheb, I am aghast as well. That line of thought a complete disregard and middle finger to worker rights and Unions (and a neo-liberal's wet dream).
The immigrants aren't to blame though. Neo-liberal governments and laws are. Note that it's not just refugees working below minimum wage, it's EU citizens from less economically well-off EU nations as well. This directly undermines the principle of solidarity that is needed to make the EU survive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 02, 2018, 05:36:09 am

We still need to agree on a minimum wage for dead people, so that guy can get a job again. A long-neglected topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 05:44:13 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 02, 2018, 05:29:00 am

Note that it's not just refugees working below minimum wage, it's EU citizens from less economically well-off EU nations as well. This directly undermines the principle of solidarity that is needed to make the EU survive.

Is that the Swedish proposal you're referring to here? Or the posted worker thing, which is a whole other can of worms?

Okay, let me try to defend myself in another way. Here in Belgium we got a thing where if an employer hire someone who has been unemployed for a long time, the state pays part of that guy's salary for a given period of time. Personnaly I think it's an idea with merit: skill rust is an issue, so it's usually better for an employer to hire someone who hasn't been unemployed for a long time. This can lead to situations where people can't find a job because they haven't had a job in a long time, meaning they stay unemployed, meaning they're out of a job for even longer, meaning they're even less likely to get a job. The subsidy in this case is a way to break the spiral.

Now, do you guys think that's a bad idea?

Because it is, basically, the same thing as the thing I was proposing for refugees. Admittedly with two big differences (the state rather than the refugee is footing the bill for the lower wage cost to the employer, and it sounds less like a slippery slope), but it still force established worker to compete with the long-term unemployed who get a subsidy.

P.S. Should be noted that again, I don't exactly know the content of that proposal by right-wing Swedes scriver was referring to, so I'm debating the general idea rather than the specific of the Swedish case. I would appreciate an english link if you have one Scriver, it'd be interesting and it might avoid us talking past each others on some points.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 02, 2018, 06:20:49 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 03:19:19 am

This can make some sense if done well. It's hard for new immigrants to compete with native Swedes when they just arrived if they have to be paid the same level.

Only if you follow the European immigration model of having literally no border control or immigration standards whatsoever. This problem entirely dissipates when you select for immigrants of equal education or experience.

Quote from: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 03:19:19 am

Now, for some migrants you could say though luck to them, but for those that you can't/don't want to deport if they can't sustain themselves (refugees mostly), you can end up trapping them out of employment, with all kind of negative consequences, both for the state's finance, for the integration of the refugees and so on.

That's immigration. Pretty obvious when you say refugee as synonymous with unlimited immigration. Someone who is moving from a safe country to a safe country, who is never going back to their home country, who is there just to supply cheap labour to neoliberal employers in perpetuity, yeah that's immigration m8.
 

Quote from: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 03:19:19 am

This explain part of the reasons why employment rate for refugees is much higher in place like the US and Germany than Sweden or the Netherlands.

Letting them compete on wage for a few years while can give them the leg up they need to enter the job market, and get the experience they need to get jobs normally. I dunno about Sweden, but lots of countries do it for young people for that same reasons. In the UK minimum wage is 5.9 £/hour when you're 18, but raise top 7.83 £/hour when 25 or older. Belgium got a system where the minimum wage depends both on your age and your amount of work experience, although the variations are small, going from 1530 euros/month to 1590 for people over 20 with at least 12 month of experience. 

Quote

Up to three quarters of Germany’s refugees will still be unemployed in five years’ time, according to a government minister, in a stark admission of the challenges the country faces in integrating its huge migrant population.

Aydan Özoğuz, commissioner for immigration, refugees and integration, told the Financial Times that only a quarter to a third of the newcomers would enter the labour market over the next five years, and “for many others we will need up to 10”.

Questionable logic if you view Germany as anything but failing all. (https://www.ft.com/content/022de0a4-54f4-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f)

Quote from: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 03:19:19 am

Obviously, there is also downsides to the idea, and scope for bad implementation causing more harm to the native workers, but the idea isn't entirely stupid and/or evil either.

Whom does such policy serve? You increase migration to the point where you replace your citizenry when your citizens tell you they want less, you decrease your tax base bringing aboard more people who take more and contribute less, you lower your wages to create an immigrant underclass who works for pennies - and you expect immigrants to be content living in indignity and serfdom? The neoliberal cry, that immigrants do the jobs no one wants to do, it is nothing but stupid and evil to seek not to make unwanted tasks obsolete, but merely pass it down to the unwanted and downtrodden. No human being would accept that as their standing in society, is it any wonder then that they see no issue with killing and raping Germans? (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime/violent-crime-rises-in-germany-and-is-attributed-to-refugees-idUSKBN1ES16J) What the hell do you expect when you bring people from safe countries on the dream of sex and economic prospects, and then tell them their only purpose was to pick litter of streets to earn a worthless wage - which coupled with the higher costs of living in Germany, means they won't even be able to afford going home? And the whole response to its evident failure is simply to stop collecting evidence and increase migration? Haha wot, you won't find me often agreeing with Marx, but when he said capitalism took people from around the world and turned them into one indistinct proletariat he was not wrong.

It's exactly the kind of retarded, immoral short term thinking neoliberalism comes up with.

If you bring in immigrants to live in your country forever, you cannot leave them as disenfranchised residents forever. You must strive to make them citizens of your country, equals of your country, or there is simply no way for your state to survive - even assuming, that your nation will have more years yet. I'm pessimistic because it's pretty easy not to make the classic mistake of doing nothing right, but it seems everyone loves making that mistake these days. Once they're citizens of your country and they have equal treatment in the eyes of law (I honestly can't fucking believe how anyone can imagine it's ok to use these people as citizens without any of the rights of citizenry), you then have to move onto every other detail which without, would keep citizens descended from migrants permanently fucked. Things like good education for their children, access to cheap credit so they can become homeowners and business owners - and like I said before, if you don't pay a wage worth living, you have no idea what damage you cause. Ignore what Scriver said about lowering wages to benefit a few large businesses - it's a valid point, but not the one I want to focus on. When you tell people from all across the world that they can make more money in one day's cheap labour than they'd make in a month in their home country in a sexually liberated Western nation, is there any surprise that so many young men sell all they have to make their way to countries like Germany? Hell no.
But time and time again the same story repeats itself. Hopeful young men arrive, the white liberals who said they'd help them keep them out with gates, bars and red tape, they live in a community that is entirely men and although they get paid more than what they did at home, it is not enough to keep up with the costs of living - which are far more than at home, with the result being they came to another country to grow rich and are now in debt. And as I said before, no Western banks are giving illegal migrants good interest rates. The result is that not just human trafficking in small criminal enterprises takes place, but companies with annual turnovers of tens of millions of dollars are benefiting from slavery on European soil (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dinamedland/2017/08/09/modern-slavery-risks-to-supply-chains-rise-across-europe-as-migrants-exploited/#6f4f25943e52).

It's fucking evil, it's fucking stupid, and when Europe is in civil war we will look to these days as the days where we looked at all the riots, violent crime and terrorism and said "everything is fine, just lower their wages so they can get that job experience."
Job experience.
For jobs.
In the same civilization that says automation will render hundreds millions of low-skilled jobs obsolete. (https://www.consultancy.uk/news/12161/logistics-robots-to-make-40-of-sectors-low-skilled-workers-obsolete)
Also saying it needs hundreds of millions more low-skilled workers.

Making the classic mistake of literally doing nothing right: NOT EVEN ONCE


NOT

EVEN

ONCE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 12:48:02 pm

I hate when you do this LW, because I feel like I can't send back a one-line throwaway, but then I don't have the time or energy tonight to answer properly, and then it's just going to drip by and I'll never get around to it.

So this isn't a full answer, but just a few points.

I cited Germany and the US as better than Sweden and other European countries at putting refugees to work, I never said they had found a magic bullet. I don't have access to the FT article but actual research (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/newcomers-north-labor-market-integration-refugees-northern-europe) shows big difference between countries regarding labor participation rate. In Germany, after 15 years, labor-force participation almost reach the level of the overal population (70 v. 74%), compared to a low of 45% in Denmark. In America, within 6 years the employment rate for refugees actually exceed the one for the overall population. (https://www.economist.com/news/international/21740726-it-eases-fiscal-burden-without-hurting-locals-prospects-european-countries-should-make) But then of course in the US it's work or starve, which is effective at getting people to work, but not really a policy I'd like to see anywhere.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_images/FE-JoyceRefugees-F1-new-trans.png)

Secondly, you seem to think I have some kind of fetish for encouraging Morrocans to drown in the Med or something. I don't. I think we have an obligation to take in some refugees, but I'd rather see a closure of the borders coupled with a deal where we welcome the ones that needs it the most rather than the one that can afford to pay a coyote.

My entire argument was resting within the framework that there is a number of long-term immigrants that we don't want to deport even if they can't find a job. Obvisouly, if you don't share that assumption, my entire argument falls apart, as you can just deport them all rather than having to integrate them into our societies. (But then in that case, you can't really use the arguments that martinuzz or ChairmanPoo used regarding the fact that this proposal would be exploiting them).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 02, 2018, 01:19:21 pm

I looked at the post code to see if there was something in the spoiler that didn't show properly and holy shit that link adress

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 02, 2018, 01:20:40 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 02, 2018, 01:19:21 pm

I looked at the post code to see if there was something in the spoiler that didn't show properly and holy shit that link adress

Gosh, I posted, it fucked, so I clicked "copy image address". It looked huge but worked on my computer... I'll re-upload it to imgur, but it's basically the graph from the linked study.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 02, 2018, 04:28:00 pm

It's not work or starve in the US. We have a shitty safety net, not a nonexistent one. When it comes to food specifically it's actually halfway decent, if only because it turns out that "take their children's food away" is a bridge too far even for our Rational Economic Conservative/Social Liberal Overlords.

And the proposed neoliberal wageslave policy isn't in effect here, so I'm not sure why you're even citing the US for your argument. In fact, it's probably harder to illegally undercut refugees here since they're virtually all documented, what with the huge fucking ocean in the way of most refugee home nations.

It has been proven time and time again the best way to get labor force participation is to not treat people like disposable replaceable garbage, but time and time again we've got some Thinking Of The Potential Rational Market Analysts to say "ok, but what if, WHAT IF we take wages and benefits and then classify it as waste spending because the workers are a captive audience".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2018, 02:30:23 pm

A man attacked 3 people with a knife in The Hague yesterday. All three are in hospital with serious injuries.
Eyewitness video shows how the perpetrator was shot at multiple times by the police, and hit in the leg, and when he refused to drop his knife when downed, they tazed him, disarmed him, and took him to hospital, and arrested him. The video also shows him shouting Allahu akhbar, after he is downed by the police.
According to the mayor of the Hague, the man is known to the police as a 'confused individual', but that there are no signals that there is any link to terrorist organisations.

According to the national news service NOS, the man is a 31-year old Syrian refugee who is not on the list of possible terrorism suspects for intelligence agencies.
https://beta.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/politie-doet-onderzoek-naar-verwarde-man-die-drie-voorbijgangers-neerstak~b6417e52/ (https://beta.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/politie-doet-onderzoek-naar-verwarde-man-die-drie-voorbijgangers-neerstak~b6417e52/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 06, 2018, 02:36:23 pm

IS will most likely claim credit for it anyways. Hell, they'd claim responsibility for Hawai'i's eruption if they thought they could get away with it.

Also, wow. Not only a violent, armed individual, but shots were actually fired... And the guy lived! Creds to the Dutchcops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2018, 02:48:14 pm

Dutchcops should train UScops in de-escalation (and situational awareness. Dutch cops don't mistake mobile phones for guns).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 08, 2018, 08:04:54 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on May 06, 2018, 02:48:14 pm

Dutchcops should train UScops in de-escalation (and situational awareness. Dutch cops don't mistake mobile phones for guns).

Dutch cops don't have surface to air missiles

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 09, 2018, 06:29:44 am

In Rome, two passenger busses exploded in the city centre. No one panicked or even flinched.
Romans are used to their busses exploding because of lack of maintenance.
So yeah, even when two busses explode in one day, Romans don't think 'terrorists attack', they think 'atac', which is the name of the bus company.

And indeed, it was no terrorist attack. It was just two poorly maintained busses catching fire and exploding. Through quick action of the bus drivers, the passengers were evacuated from the busses before they exploded. Only one woman needed treatment at a hospital.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2018, 06:33:39 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 09, 2018, 06:29:44 am

In Rome, two passenger busses exploded in the city centre. No one panicked or even flinched.
Romans are used to their busses exploding because of lack of maintenance.
So yeah, even when two busses explode in one day, Romans don't think 'terrorists attack', they think 'atac', which is the name of the bus company.

And indeed, it was no terrorist attack. It was just two poorly maintained busses catching fire and exploding. Through quick action of the bus drivers, the passengers were evacuated from the busses before they exploded. Only one woman needed treatment at a hospital.

Greatest threat to the Italian Navy: The Italian Air Force

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 12, 2018, 07:43:36 pm

So this year on our Constitution Day (which is a pretty big deal for Norskies. Think July 4th but with more obligatory dresses and standing around being patriotic), the powers that be have seen fit to impose a fine for anyone waving a flag that isn't the Norwegian flag. The fine, 4500NOK, is equivalent to a little over $560 US.

This also goes for people waving another flag in addition to a Norwegian flag, not just those who swap out the Norwegian flag with something else.


While I do feel that some people are kind of missing the point of Norwegian Constitution Day, I also feel that specifically banning the flags of other countries is really not going to accomplish anything worthwhile.

Hell, the ultra-rare extranational flag that shows up in the parades here is usually an item of enthusiastic interest, because it helps break up the crushing monotony of having to stand there and wait through the entire fucking parade of every school in the county marching all of their kids grades 1-9 in order down a narrow street, just because you're vaguely related to someone who has a kid walking in the parade...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 12, 2018, 07:56:42 pm

Flag restrictions among European countries were a shock to me when I started actually reading up on them. While a fair few nations permit burning one's own flag, virtually all of them criminalize burning the flags of other nations, and there are plenty who stand at a Full Nationalism of flag-related prohibitions.

Hilarious, in light of certain criticisms and assumptions about US flag law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 12, 2018, 08:57:10 pm

Quote from: Kagus on May 12, 2018, 07:43:36 pm

So this year on our Constitution Day (which is a pretty big deal for Norskies. Think July 4th but with more obligatory dresses and standing around being patriotic), the powers that be have seen fit to impose a fine for anyone waving a flag that isn't the Norwegian flag. The fine, 4500NOK, is equivalent to a little over $560 US.

This also goes for people waving another flag in addition to a Norwegian flag, not just those who swap out the Norwegian flag with something else.


While I do feel that some people are kind of missing the point of Norwegian Constitution Day, I also feel that specifically banning the flags of other countries is really not going to accomplish anything worthwhile.

Hell, the ultra-rare extranational flag that shows up in the parades here is usually an item of enthusiastic interest, because it helps break up the crushing monotony of having to stand there and wait through the entire fucking parade of every school in the county marching all of their kids grades 1-9 in order down a narrow street, just because you're vaguely related to someone who has a kid walking in the parade...

Unenforceable law, if it only applies to flags, as you need only apply flaggage to non "flag" items

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 12, 2018, 10:09:32 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 12, 2018, 07:56:42 pm

Flag restrictions among European countries were a shock to me when I started actually reading up on them. While a fair few nations permit burning one's own flag, virtually all of them criminalize burning the flags of other nations, and there are plenty who stand at a Full Nationalism of flag-related prohibitions.

Hilarious, in light of certain criticisms and assumptions about US flag law.

And apparently the proper way to dispose of an old Danish flag is to burn it.

Also, it should surprise no one that there are people who want to outlaw flag burning (of the US flag anyway) or (on the more extreme end) equate it to treason, but it’s considered free speech, so, it’s unlikely to happen here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 13, 2018, 02:50:50 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 12, 2018, 07:56:42 pm

Flag restrictions among European countries were a shock to me when I started actually reading up on them. While a fair few nations permit burning one's own flag, virtually all of them criminalize burning the flags of other nations, and there are plenty who stand at a Full Nationalism of flag-related prohibitions.

Hilarious, in light of certain criticisms and assumptions about US flag law.

I can tell you that in Spain there has been a severe involution in civil liberties in the last ten years. Concerning flags, it didnt use to be illegal before 2015.

Oddly enough there have been far more trials of people accused of "defending terrorism" than in the 20 years prior (when the domestic terrorists were actually active).  I dont feel this is going to leas anywhere happy. The trend is to emulate Erdogan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 02:44:15 am

Quote

The trend is to emulate Erdogan.

Don't be saying that, the mandatory sentence for accusing the government of emulating Erdogan is 10 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 14, 2018, 02:49:47 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 02:44:15 am

Quote

The trend is to emulate Erdogan.

Don't be saying that, the mandatory sentence for accusing the government of emulating Erdogan is 10 years.

Plus life imprisonment for anyone who ever affiliated with you, like the cashier at your supermarket and your mailman.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 15, 2018, 04:06:16 am

Dutch schools are concerned, because this year, for the first time ever, the central exams for all highschools will take place during the Ramadan. It is feared that many children will finish their highschool with bad results, or even fail them completely and redo the entire last year, because they are making exams all day on an empty stomach.
It might not be that much of a problem though. When interviewed, a majority of muslim youth says that when the hunger interferes with their abilty to focus too much, they will choose for their future career perspective instead of their religious strictness, and break the fast.

In slightly related news, the Dutch chapter of Pegida has announced that they will hold barbecues, making roast pork in front of mosque entrances, during Ramadan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 15, 2018, 04:33:33 am

One thing is trying to function on an empty stomach, another is trying to do anything at all without drinking water all day. It got to be kind of a problem here in Norway, especially when Ramadan ended up falling in the middle of summer where we end up with 18-22 hours of full sunlight, depending on how far north you are. People were trying to eat and recuperate in between prayers in the 4 hour window between sunset and sunrise, and that's down here in the south where it's generally not as severe.

Eventually some imams got together and decided that Muslims in Norway should really only have to adhere to the spirit of the time, and should treat Norway as having the same day/night schedule as Mecca.

Personally, I think that's great. It's kind of a mean thought, but I figure it's a great step towards moderation and eventual secularism. The more that people agree on the old rules being outdated and unnecessarily rigid, the more people move away from extremism and choose for themselves to break away. It's selfish of me, I know, but I feel like it's to be encouraged.

Heck, the more conservative folks here have been paranoid about there being a government-funded mosque popping up somewhere. I say might as well go ahead, look at what state sponsorship did to the Lutheran church here, they're a bunch of damn kittens... Least extreme people around, and hemorrhaging members in a constant stream.


I don't think I've heard anything about concerns regarding Ramadan affecting high school exams here, but then again there's already an ingrained tradition for the students to go on a month-long bender right over finals anyways, so the Ramadan-observing students probably have a leg up on the situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 15, 2018, 04:37:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 15, 2018, 04:06:16 am

In slightly related news, the Dutch chapter of Pegida has announced that they will hold barbecues, making roast pork in front of mosque entrances, during Ramadan.

That's a huge dick move. Also, doesn't that qualify as religious discrimination? (Though I have no idea what Dutch laws on that are)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 15, 2018, 04:49:50 am

Quote from: Teneb on May 15, 2018, 04:37:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 15, 2018, 04:06:16 am

In slightly related news, the Dutch chapter of Pegida has announced that they will hold barbecues, making roast pork in front of mosque entrances, during Ramadan.

That's a huge dick move. Also, doesn't that qualify as religious discrimination? (Though I have no idea what Dutch laws on that are)

Sadly, no, it falls under the freedom of demonstration. The city council of the city where it is planned is 'looking how to best accomodate' the protest. They might try to stop it on fire safety grounds, or maybe the mayor will step in and forbid it if he deems it a serious threat to public order, but that's not likely. Mayors have come under fire for using the public order argument too easily to forbid demonstrations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 15, 2018, 04:55:29 am

fuck now i want some pork

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 15, 2018, 05:00:26 am

The trick is to eat all of their barbecue so they have nothing left to grill and be dicks with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 15, 2018, 05:51:51 am

Quote from: Teneb on May 15, 2018, 04:37:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 15, 2018, 04:06:16 am

In slightly related news, the Dutch chapter of Pegida has announced that they will hold barbecues, making roast pork in front of mosque entrances, during Ramadan.

That's a huge dick move. Also, doesn't that qualify as religious discrimination? (Though I have no idea what Dutch laws on that are)

Nah, it's rude and a dick move, but you can't really ban people from having barbecue if it's a place where barbecue are normally organized. It's not like they're forcing anyone to eat pork.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 15, 2018, 04:24:45 pm

I am SHOCKED and DISGUSTED by what Dutch people think barbecue is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 15, 2018, 05:04:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 15, 2018, 04:24:45 pm

I am SHOCKED and DISGUSTED by what Dutch people think barbecue is.

If you think that's bad, you should try their ovens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 16, 2018, 06:09:09 am

In a co-lab with Ameripol: Donald Trump threatens to use trade talks to get better prices for US pharmaceutical companies (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/15/trump-threatens-use-us-trade-talks-force-nhs-pay-drugs/)

In a stunning lack of self awareness, Mr. Trump concluded:
"The reason why they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialised system."

He then went on to say that the reason why the US has fucked up prices in the absence of any such socialised system, is that it's everyone else's fault.

Quote

“In some cases, medicine that costs a few dollars in a foreign country costs hundreds of dollars in America for the same pill, with the same ingredients, in the same package, made in the same plant. That is unacceptable.

Lmao this is your brain on peak capitalism
You overprice medicine far in excess of what other nations pay, your solution is to try and raise prices worldwide instead of lower yours to competitive pricing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 16, 2018, 06:33:27 am

I... Wow. And here I was hoping he'd bumble into another actually good decision when I first heard about him trying to lower pharmaceutical prices.

But no, yes, I can see it now... The only reason big pharma can continue to operate what with all these socialized healthcare countries, is to have America pick up the slack in their international earnings expectations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 16, 2018, 06:33:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 16, 2018, 06:09:09 am

In a co-lab with Ameripol: Donald Trump threatens to use trade talks to get better prices for US pharmaceutical companies (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/15/trump-threatens-use-us-trade-talks-force-nhs-pay-drugs/)

In a stunning lack of self awareness, Mr. Trump concluded:
"The reason why they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialised system."

He then went on to say that the reason why the US has fucked up prices in the absence of any such socialised system, is that it's everyone else's fault.

Quote

“In some cases, medicine that costs a few dollars in a foreign country costs hundreds of dollars in America for the same pill, with the same ingredients, in the same package, made in the same plant. That is unacceptable.

Lmao this is your brain on peak capitalism
You overprice medicine far in excess of what other nations pay, your solution is to try and raise prices worldwide instead of lower yours to competitive pricing

It's also a bloody misunderstanding on how drug pricing works. No drug companies is going to say "Jolly, I made an extra 100 millions in Europe, I'll lower the price of my drug in the US". They charge what the market will bear. What is true is that we benefits indirectly from the ridiculous US prices because they fund much of the R&D: if the US lowered its prices, prices wouldn't bulge much in Europe but fewer new drugs would come on the market.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 16, 2018, 06:36:45 am

Quote from: Sheb on May 16, 2018, 06:33:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 16, 2018, 06:09:09 am

In a co-lab with Ameripol: Donald Trump threatens to use trade talks to get better prices for US pharmaceutical companies (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/15/trump-threatens-use-us-trade-talks-force-nhs-pay-drugs/)

In a stunning lack of self awareness, Mr. Trump concluded:
"The reason why they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialised system."

He then went on to say that the reason why the US has fucked up prices in the absence of any such socialised system, is that it's everyone else's fault.

Quote

“In some cases, medicine that costs a few dollars in a foreign country costs hundreds of dollars in America for the same pill, with the same ingredients, in the same package, made in the same plant. That is unacceptable.

Lmao this is your brain on peak capitalism
You overprice medicine far in excess of what other nations pay, your solution is to try and raise prices worldwide instead of lower yours to competitive pricing

It's also a bloody misunderstanding on how drug pricing works. No drug companies is going to say "Jolly, I made an extra 100 millions in Europe, I'll lower the price of my drug in the US". They charge what the market will bear. What is true is that we benefits indirectly from the ridiculous US prices because they fund much of the R&D: if the US lowered its prices, prices wouldn't bulge much in Europe but fewer new drugs would come on the market.

You're taking at face value the industry's claims thst they are doing poorly. Now, I understand very well that drugs, esp new groundbreaking drugs need to be paid. And overall ythe pharmaceutical industrial complex works, that cant be denied. But there have been a lot of price hiking scandals in the last few years, too.

I get the feeling that this kind of lobbying is preventive versus some populist proposals to abolish the patent system (which would be a disaster too... look at India). But really, bullshit proposals cannot be countered with more bullshit proposals. That only leads to a brown fan spiral

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 16, 2018, 09:37:57 am

Oh yeah, there certainly is a bunch of scandals, especially with off-patent medications. (Where, for exemple, a company will refuse to let competitors access its drug so they cannot prove equivalency to get market authorization). But lots of money still get plowed into R&D, that money has to come from somewhere, and the high prices in the US are where it's at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Antioch on May 16, 2018, 10:12:23 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 15, 2018, 04:24:45 pm

I am SHOCKED and DISGUSTED by what Dutch people think barbecue is.

As a Dutch person I agree.

Most Dutch BBQ's look like people trying to make charcoal out of meat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 16, 2018, 10:43:07 am

I think the Dutch just don't understand BBQ because it doesn't have enough vowels in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on May 16, 2018, 10:48:25 am

Honestly the bigger problem is that some Dutch eat fucking watermelon as a BBQ salad. Like, why the fuck would you do that???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 16, 2018, 11:19:01 am

Quote from: Jopax on May 16, 2018, 10:48:25 am

Honestly the bigger problem is that some Dutch eat fucking watermelon as a BBQ salad. Like, why the fuck would you do that???

I mean, doesn't watermelon go well with grilled meats?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 16, 2018, 11:19:37 am

Pretty darn nice if you know the trick of first emptying a liter of vodka into said melon (and leave that for a few hours so the vodka soaks all of the melon)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 16, 2018, 11:41:00 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on May 16, 2018, 11:19:01 am

Quote from: Jopax on May 16, 2018, 10:48:25 am

Honestly the bigger problem is that some Dutch eat fucking watermelon as a BBQ salad. Like, why the fuck would you do that???

I mean, doesn't watermelon go well with grilled meats?

Heck, you can even grill the watermelon itself. Gotta be careful not to let it dehydrate too much, but the heat semi-caramelizes some of the sugars while also adding the smoky flame flavor from the grill.

I'm more of a grilled corn in-the-husk kind of guy, but it's certainly acceptable by US standards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 16, 2018, 11:51:42 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 16, 2018, 11:19:37 am

Pretty darn nice if you know the trick of first emptying a liter of vodka into said melon (and leave that for a few hours so the vodka soaks all of the melon)

That's disgraceful and I feel dirty knowing I am a descendant of people who would foul a watermelon in such a way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2018, 11:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian

I am literally mobileposting from work to call out this heresy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 16, 2018, 12:03:28 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2018, 11:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian

I am literally mobileposting from work to call out this heresy

გაბრაზებული ხარ?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 16, 2018, 12:21:59 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2018, 11:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian

I am literally mobileposting from work to call out this heresy

Everyone knows MSH is from South Ossetia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 16, 2018, 12:23:48 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 16, 2018, 12:21:59 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2018, 11:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian

I am literally mobileposting from work to call out this heresy

Everyone knows MSH is from South Ossetia

Darn, so he's not a fellow resident of the peach state? :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 16, 2018, 12:24:30 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2018, 11:59:33 am

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian, I think he refers to BBQ being used for grilling instead of smoking)

Quote from: scriver on May 16, 2018, 10:23:52 am

(As MSH is a Georgian

I am literally mobileposting from work to call out this heresy

I'm sorry, MSH, let me correct myself:

As MSH is Tadsjikistani...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 16, 2018, 12:53:34 pm

You all disrespect the glory of Best Carolina.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on May 16, 2018, 01:19:05 pm

A watermelon is 90ish% water why the fuck would you grill something that's 90ish% water. It's sole purpose is to be a refreshing summer snack (or in some cases refershing summer snack that gets you hammered if you do the vodka trick).

I'm trying to find a similarly silly comparison but I don't think there's any other foodstuff with that high of a water content.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 16, 2018, 04:42:56 pm

You realize that unless you're grilling jerky, most cuts of meat will have around 70% water content, give or take? Potentially more if the supplier is cheating and inflating the pieces like is sometimes done with chicken.

There's also cucumber, tomato, pineapple, eggplant, bell peppers... I've definitely seen grilled eggplant and pineapple, not too sure about the others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Baffler on May 16, 2018, 05:07:28 pm

Quote from: Jopax on May 16, 2018, 01:19:05 pm

A watermelon is 90ish% water why the fuck would you grill something that's 90ish% water. It's sole purpose is to be a refreshing summer snack (or in some cases refershing summer snack that gets you hammered if you do the vodka trick).

I'm trying to find a similarly silly comparison but I don't think there's any other foodstuff with that high of a water content.

I have to agree. It's meant to be crisp, sweet, and refreshing. Complementary to the savory, smoky grilled meats, not supplemental. It'd be like deciding a palette cleanser like an after-dinner salad isn't hearty enough and swapping it out for chili.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 17, 2018, 04:39:37 am

Dutch marine corps is in trouble. Not only have they been plagued by diminishing numbers of new recruits, now they also face a mass exodus of existing military staff, including officers.
The Dutch government wants to move the marine base from Utrecht to the province of Zeeland. However, the vast majority of the marines' spouses doesn't feel like moving to the sleepy province that has little career perspective. And when forced to choose between their family or their job as marines, the vast majority of marines and officers have stated they will resign from service and choose for their family life if the planned move goes through. Finding a civilian job is easy enough for ex-marines, they are pretty popular employees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 20, 2018, 10:46:06 am

So, Scottish PM (well, first minister, but that means the same thing) Nicola Sturgeon is considering another vote on Scottish independence (https://www.politico.eu/article/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-independence-vote-brexit-clarity/) once there is more clarity on Brexit.

She’s also concerned how it will work if there is a stark split on a final Brexit vote (if it ever comes to that), citing how there was such a split with Scotland being almost completely remain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 20, 2018, 05:54:31 pm

As much as I know I shouldn’t, I desperately hope that we drop off the edge of Europe with no negotiations after Bogo eats Merkels kids or something, then Scotland ejects, tries to rejoin, and gets Mufasad by Spain, who are then distracted by a basque/Catalan independence uprising again. Greece defaults on whatever money it’s got again,, Russia takes advantage of Germany spending all its money on propping up the southern states to start taking more chunks out of Ukraine. Donald Trump declares war on the EU in order to force them to raise viagra prices, causing the stock markets to implode. China tries to implode when everyone stops buying their shit cause they’ve got no money, but survives because tolitarian police state, Poland annexes Germany and gets away with it by claiming the Germans  are nazis if they resist, and a United Ireland sails away into the Atlantic in a raft of potatoes while the world burns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 20, 2018, 06:03:12 pm

Don't know how that all would work out, since Poland's probably got more Nazis than Germany these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 21, 2018, 05:45:41 am

...

Okay, yeah, I could make that joke a lot worse than it is, but I don't need to. I don't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2018, 04:20:51 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 20, 2018, 05:54:31 pm

As much as I know I shouldn’t, I desperately hope that we drop off the edge of Europe with no negotiations after Bogo eats Merkels kids or something, then Scotland ejects, tries to rejoin, and gets Mufasad by Spain, who are then distracted by a basque/Catalan independence uprising again. Greece defaults on whatever money it’s got again,, Russia takes advantage of Germany spending all its money on propping up the southern states to start taking more chunks out of Ukraine. Donald Trump declares war on the EU in order to force them to raise viagra prices, causing the stock markets to implode. China tries to implode when everyone stops buying their shit cause they’ve got no money, but survives because tolitarian police state, Poland annexes Germany and gets away with it by claiming the Germans  are nazis if they resist, and a United Ireland sails away into the Atlantic in a raft of potatoes while the world burns.

I find it odd that China doesn't implode because it's a totalitarian police state. Throughout history, it has been the dominant political apparatus which seized control and divided China between ascendant warlords. Also Poland would just say Germans don't exist therefore they can't be annexed, thus silencing the non-existent Germans. Furthermore, Ireland would sail away on a raft of bananas, not potatoes. Ireland is Europe's greatest exporter of bananas, whilst a potato raft would not fare the Atlantic for as long as a banana raft. Bananas have superior buoyancy properties, I know so from testing them on many Cathedral fountains. Greece is more likely to be devoured by Sultan Erdoman the Magnificent's resurgence in the Eastern Meditteranean than it is to default, her debt collectors are not yet done stripping her bare of assets. The implosion of the stock market would not stop much of America's oligarchy from making even more money, having foreknowledge of the imminent collapse of stock prices from their friendly chitchats with White House assets, and with their investments in real assets will emerge as the Eternal Clans of American influence, warring amongst one another in byzantine struggles unseen and unfathomable to the witless peons toiling at their feet - all to ensure, the viagra will flow. Russia expands across the Neo-Boreal Forest of the North, seeking to acquire enough gas to burn in order to stave off the nuclear winter to follow, after Eurovision sparks WWIII by making Palestine the winner of 2019, kicking off a chain reaction of alliances and vote swapping culminating in nuclear war. The coming nuclear war will prove popular amongst younger generations, who finally have realistic hopes of getting on the property ladder and founding a mutant family once the ash settles. "I really hope either my Boss or I die. If he dies I get his job, if I die it's a win win." Another will merely reply "The weak should fear the strong," whilst carving the femur of his co-intern, Dennis, into a spear, on behalf of Chief Jeremiah Henrich of the Marketing and Strategic Development tribe, in preparation for their campaign against Chief Barai Golibrodi of the Human Resources tribe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on May 21, 2018, 04:43:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2018, 04:20:51 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 20, 2018, 05:54:31 pm

As much as I know I shouldn’t, I desperately hope that we drop off the edge of Europe with no negotiations after Bogo eats Merkels kids or something, then Scotland ejects, tries to rejoin, and gets Mufasad by Spain, who are then distracted by a basque/Catalan independence uprising again. Greece defaults on whatever money it’s got again,, Russia takes advantage of Germany spending all its money on propping up the southern states to start taking more chunks out of Ukraine. Donald Trump declares war on the EU in order to force them to raise viagra prices, causing the stock markets to implode. China tries to implode when everyone stops buying their shit cause they’ve got no money, but survives because tolitarian police state, Poland annexes Germany and gets away with it by claiming the Germans  are nazis if they resist, and a United Ireland sails away into the Atlantic in a raft of potatoes while the world burns.

I find it odd that China doesn't implode because it's a totalitarian police state. Throughout history, it has been the dominant political apparatus which seized control and divided China between ascendant warlords. Also Poland would just say Germans don't exist therefore they can't be annexed, thus silencing the non-existent Germans. Furthermore, Ireland would sail away on a raft of bananas, not potatoes. Ireland is Europe's greatest exporter of bananas, whilst a potato raft would not fare the Atlantic for as long as a banana raft. Bananas have superior buoyancy properties, I know so from testing them on many Cathedral fountains. Greece is more likely to be devoured by Sultan Erdoman the Magnificent's resurgence in the Eastern Meditteranean than it is to default, her debt collectors are not yet done stripping her bare of assets. The implosion of the stock market would not stop much of America's oligarchy from making even more money, having foreknowledge of the imminent collapse of stock prices from their friendly chitchats with White House assets, and with their investments in real assets will emerge as the Eternal Clans of American influence, warring amongst one another in byzantine struggles unseen and unfathomable to the witless peons toiling at their feet - all to ensure, the viagra will flow. Russia expands across the Neo-Boreal Forest of the North, seeking to acquire enough gas to burn in order to stave off the nuclear winter to follow, after Eurovision sparks WWIII by making Palestine the winner of 2019, kicking off a chain reaction of alliances and vote swapping culminating in nuclear war. The coming nuclear war will prove popular amongst younger generations, who finally have realistic hopes of getting on the property ladder and founding a mutant family once the ash settles. "I really hope either my Boss or I die. If he dies I get his job, if I die it's a win win." Another will merely reply "The weak should fear the strong," whilst carving the femur of his co-intern, Dennis, into a spear, on behalf of Chief Jeremiah Henrich of the Marketing and Strategic Development tribe, in preparation for their campaign against Chief Barai Golibrodi of the Human Resources tribe.

Meanwhile, Portugal and Brazil arm themselves for yet another meme war (https://sputniknews.com/world/201606181041569190-brazil-portugal-war-memes/), ignoring the collapsing world around them. (The source is from 2016, but there's been more since then. This year saw one that lasted for a few hours, for instance. Good luck finding one that is in english though)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 22, 2018, 05:48:06 am

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/21/sweden-distributes-be-prepared-for-war-cyber-terror-attack-leaflet-to-every-home

I think this is actually kind of neat. I mean, I'm not huge on military spending as a general rule, but having a pamphlet showcasing how the everyman can help themselves in a crisis situation (and thus help the country as a whole, by not being quite as squishy) is an interesting idea for overall "defense".

Heck, I still basically think that national guard units and militaries in general could use a bit more training in crisis handling, and basically just use them to help provide a kind of reactive infrastructure for natural disasters and whatnot, with the whole shooty bang bang being kind of secondary.

My experiences at least, with the never-near-combat Norwegian national defense, was primarily just a lot of training and practice on tactics and equipment that we would never use even if we WERE in an active combat situation.

Meanwhile, we handily neglected all the things that routinely DID come up, such as "our tin can of a support vehicle fell through the ice" and "snow falling from a roof just annihilated one of the $500,000 office containers".

Not to mention how fucking slow we were at deploying or redeploying anything, anywhere, because our logistics routines were absolutely abysmal.

But no, no... we needed to learn how to use grenades that our division would never have, how to maintain guns that are incredibly unsuited for our home terrain, and how to set up communications equipment that was phased out of use in the 60's because it served no purpose compared to the alternatives (which we also used).

We also had to learn how to pretend to shoot our guns, because due to a (*GASP!*) logistics issue, our entire battalion was left without ammunition for most of our service period.


...Okay, I'm ranting. Pamphlet is cool, promoting individual self-reliability is cool, ending statement is hilariously badass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 22, 2018, 06:25:12 am

Quote

It advises checking the source of all information, warning that “states and organisations are already trying to influence our values and how we act ... and reduce reduce our resilience and willingness to defend ourselves”.
A detailed page of “home preparedness tips” advises the population to stock up on water bottles, warm clothing and sleeping bags, and “non-perishable food that can be prepared quickly, requires little water or can be eaten without preparation”.
In the event of armed conflict, it says, “everyone is obliged to contribute and everyone is needed” for Sweden’s “total defence”: anyone between 16 and 70 “can be called to assist in the event of the threat of war and war”.
Sweden has not been at war with another country for more than 200 years. If it is attacked, the leaflet says, “we will never give up. All information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false.”

Worthless propaganda intended to engender a siege mentality against invisible foes in order to bolster the popularity of unpopular regimes. Not an adequate substitute for training, national unity nor experience, and not at all a surprise coming from Sweden - throwing your people into the meatgrinder is definitely no substitute for a military, but if Sweden's absolute failure to recruit and retain volunteers shows, even forming a Territorial Army would appear to be beyond its current national abilities. At least Sweden will be defended to the last Finn, assuming of course, it is not a civil war which puts the metaphorical mangy dog down. Grenade attacks on Swedish ambulances aren't exactly being done by Russian hackers
That said, founding your own large body of reservists is a bretty good idea. The UK has its own reserve force which, while decaying with the rest of these isles, remains useful. Every time a particularly nasty natural catastrophe hits the reservists can be mobilized as a pre-existing command and logistical framework with which to effectively form a humanitarian response. And in the event of an invasion, would be a valuable addition to regular defence forces - thus despite rarely being sent to combat zones, remain a useful expenditure of defence funds.
Regarding the topic of drilling useless tactics or equipment, the logic goes that in war, nothing goes to plan and useless tactics may not necessarily always remain so - the continued training in bayonet charges for example, proves to yield surprising results. Moreover, training which has no functional use in combat - for example, in marching drill, nevertheless serves the purpose in forming unit cohesion, discipline and unity, putting everyone through a shared experience of suffering under the managerial genius of one's superior officers. Also consider redundancy; the Royal Navy for example continues to train its Officers in such navigational or communication methods as were being rendered obsolete in the 18th-20th century, on the assumption that in the event of all of their modern equipment being rendered inoperable, the ships would all remain war-capable. Thus having lots of people capable of setting up redundant equipment from the 60's is useful in the event that all communication equipment from the 2000s is unavailable for whatever reason. There's method in Norway's madness, either that, or they ran out of money

Sweden is a pretty shit dystopia tbh, anything less than total annihilation by a hostile power would do less damage to Sweden than what Sweden's own elites are determined to pursue (http://archive.is/2cW17)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 22, 2018, 06:49:11 am

Right, so, that's a lot of rant and I'm kind of on a time limit, so to begin with I'll just go with the little piece at the bottom that caught my eye.

The "modern alternative" equipment that is still being used in preference to the stuff that's been phased out of active use is from the 50's. It is not modern tech, save for a couple newish encryption modifications. It's just more effective, easier to set up and use, more resilient, and more adaptable than the other ones, which are the more modern equipment.

The reason the other junk still exists at all (note that it is not sent out of the country with our actual active divisions, it exists solely in the care of one branch of the communications battalion who are explicitly and exclusively trained to use and maintain it) is because the paperwork hasn't been processed yet.

They're trying to remove it completely, but the military bureaucracy is so horrifically bloated that they haven't figured out how yet. In the meantime, they keep bringing in new kids, teaching them how to deploy this shit, paying through the nose to replace the ones that inevitably break, and invent things for them to do on exercises so they don't feel left out.

It's not a redundancy, it's a liability. The bureaucracy is just that bad. In 2011, the year I was in (yes, one single year. That's the mandatory service period, which is really only mandatory if you want to do it), they were getting ready to start a huge process of updating all military computers to the new OS which had only just then finished the rigorous testing required before something like that can be put into active users.

That OS? Windows XP. The testing process took nearly ten years before they could decide whether or not to implement it.


The military organizational structure here is a fucking sham.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 22, 2018, 08:09:05 am

The military is a sham everywhere.
Now, there is no constription back home anywhere, but I'll share one of the tales my father told me (I'll share more even, if its received properly)

So... the soldier doing guard duty in ome of the buildings was, among other things, supposed to inventory the weapons in a meeting room. No big deal, some old rifles... and a saber.  See, everyone included the sabre in the inventory because noone had ever bothered in writing it out, and in fact nobody in living memory had actually ever seen the saber. But all inventory checklists acknowledged the saber was there. For years.
One day, one noob did the inventory and foolishly reported the saber as missing. Guess who ended up in front of a court martial to give explanations about the saber's disappaerance :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 22, 2018, 08:11:18 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 22, 2018, 06:49:11 am

It's not a redundancy, it's a liability. The bureaucracy is just that bad.

To rephrase: It's accommodated incompetence, as soldiers will understand how to use the old equipment because the new equipment never arrives unless it's "requisitioned" :]

Quote from: Kagus on May 22, 2018, 06:49:11 am

In 2011, the year I was in (yes, one single year. That's the mandatory service period, which is really only mandatory if you want to do it), they were getting ready to start a huge process of updating all military computers to the new OS which had only just then finished the rigorous testing required before something like that can be put into active users.

That OS? Windows XP. The testing process took nearly ten years before they could decide whether or not to implement it.

The military organizational structure here is a fucking sham.

Reminds me of when I met a soldier who used to be stationed in West Germany, when their bureaucracy made the transition from paper to computer and somehow everything got even worse

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 22, 2018, 09:33:57 am

Well, again, the old equipment is what we're using today. Because it's useful. We're still using those big fuckoff field radios from the 50's, because they're hardy as fuck and they're reliable at getting a signal where it needs to be.

The new equipment, which are these point-to-point field telephone rigs, apparently has a much clearer signal quality... However, it's reliant on having a clear, unobstructed line of sight to the point it's trying to contact, it's much larger than a radio, and they're fragile as a neighbor's flowervase (as well as costing thousands to repair/replace). And, since they're directional, they need to receive a radio transmission to tell them to change facing anyways...

That's what got phased out in the 60's, because there just wasn't any reason to have it. Sure, if you get the connection steady, it's apparently a great, clear, secure method of communication. ...but Norway is filled with bulk forests and discount mountains, good luck trying to get LOS on your target. So rather than using them alongside the radios they were already using, they just went back to using the radios exclusively. But the process of actually removing the directional teletransmitters has apparently gotten so deeply bungholed by the powers that be that a clean break is apparently out of the question.

As for having a few people around who are trained in the use of these things just in case they decide to use some, that's also kinda moot because the singular platoon that gets trained with these things is never sent out of the country, the law prevents it. So, yeah. Almost as effective as when they made new combat gloves standard issue for all the national defense, most of whom are stationed in the northern reaches of Norway where it easily hits -41 degrees (and below!) effective at times during the winter.

The gloves were made for desert combat, and were purchased for our deployed troops in the middle east... They're specifically designed to diffuse heat away from the hand, and make it possible to touch very hot metal things like grenades that have been out in the sun.

It got so bad that, during our boot period (lasting a whole 8 weeks, because they needed to get more boots on the ground for a big exercise, so they didn't have time to actually train us fully), we went from having the gloves be mandatory parts of the uniform to being specifically disallowed from wearing them if the temperature was below freezing.


Oh, yeah, I ended up reading a military news magazine while waiting for a doctor's appointment while I was in... In there they talked about how the Navy had just bought 3 big new battleships from the US.  ...and then, I think 2-3 months later, found out that the "maintenance costs were beyond projected budget constraints", and sold 2 of them. For about 25% of what they'd paid to buy them in the first place. Whoever wrote up that expenditure analysis must have been high on some god damn Destroyer-class mushrooms.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 22, 2018, 08:09:05 am

So... the soldier doing guard duty in ome of the buildings was, among other things, supposed to inventory the weapons in a meeting room. No big deal, some old rifles... and a saber.  See, everyone included the sabre in the inventory because noone had ever bothered in writing it out, and in fact nobody in living memory had actually ever seen the saber. But all inventory checklists acknowledged the saber was there. For years.
One day, one noob did the inventory and foolishly reported the saber as missing. Guess who ended up in front of a court martial to give explanations about the saber's disappearance :P

Oh man, that... That hits entirely too close to home. We didn't have any sabers, but that whole kind of thinking is just so fundamentally a part of military life that it's ridiculous.

During my time, they revised the standard equipment checklist for infantrymen in my division, changing around how many pairs of this type of underwear, what kinds of auxiliary equipment and consumables you'd be given etc... The problem, of course, is that we'd received the old list when we first took everything out at the start of our service. But when we were discharged, and were supposed to return all military equipment, most people got stopped and questioned as to why they hadn't returned everything on the list. Well... Because we were being asked to return 3 pairs of long johns, out of the 2 we'd been given.

The only people who filled the checklist acceptably were people who'd stolen from other soldiers and thus had more than what they were assigned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 24, 2018, 10:42:24 am

After 4 years of investigation and verification, the Joint Investigation Team investigating the downing of flight MH-17 concluded that the BUK missile used to shoot down the aircraft originated from the Russian army, to be precise, the 53th anti-aircraft brigade of the Russian army in Kursk.
Prime minister Rutte has cut off his trade meeting in India to return to the Netherlands. All ministers abroad are recalled for emergency meeting. The parliament is also holding an extra session. It is expected that the Netherlands will call for a UN Security Council meeting to discuss what to do next.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/onderzoeksteam-raket-die-mh17-neerhaalde-was-van-russisch-leger~bce2e060/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/onderzoeksteam-raket-die-mh17-neerhaalde-was-van-russisch-leger~bce2e060/)

https://youtu.be/rhyd875Qtlg (https://youtu.be/rhyd875Qtlg)


In other news, Iran has threatened to resume it's uranium enrichment if the EU does not protect them against US sanctions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 24, 2018, 11:05:18 am

It took them four years to identify the obvious? Pfft. Though I guess there’s the benefit of having an investigation and identifying the specific unit that did it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 24, 2018, 03:54:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 24, 2018, 11:05:18 am

It took them four years to identify the obvious? Pfft. Though I guess there’s the benefit of having an investigation and identifying the specific unit that did it.

One thing is having an "obvious" answer, another thing is specifically confirming it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on May 24, 2018, 05:24:07 pm

Actually investigating crimes? Why bother lol just sosnogorsk the most convenient scapegoat.

Note: Yes, it was obvious that Russia did it, however just going off on a hunch would quite simply be a rather dickish thing to do. False flags do exist and behaving like a red+white+blue-blooded american is not quite the responsible thing to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 25, 2018, 01:46:21 am

It's very unlikely that the Buk was fired by actual Russian troops. Sure, it was equipment provided by the Russians, but that's been pretty obvious for a while.

So, the weapons were Russian, we got that, but there's no real justification to start speculating about conspiracy-theory level ideas such as this being a false-flag operation by the Russians or something. It was just a dumb fuck-up because they gave powerful weapons to idiots.

e.g. we know some launcher systems left the base of the 53rd Brigade in Kursk, and were added to an existing convoy of weapons that was headed towards the border. But, there isn't a shred of evidence that anyone from the 53rd Brigade actually mobilized, and also the specific launcher was identified in photos because it's missing spokes on one wheel. e.g. they sent them the shittiest launchers they had available. That evidence is much more in line with the theory that the Russians scrounged old gear from a number of units then sent it to the Ukrainian rebels.

From the sounds of it, they just thought to send them a little bit of everything, and there was no specific thought given to the AA launchers whatsoever. e.g. having an airliner get shot down by AA weapons is an exceedingly rare event, to the point that if you're giving someone AA weapons to fight a civil war, it's not the kind of thing you'd immediately think about.

Handing out heavy weapons to people who don't know how to use them, thus fucked up shit happens, that's not just a Russian issue. I saw a thing on TV last night about how Saudi Arabia are shelling areas in Yemen with US-supplied gear, but they don't really know how to use the weapons properly, so they cause a lot more civilian casualties than they should. e.g. firing heavy weapons is the easy part, the hard part is having the correct recon information so that you're not targeting things you're not actually trying to hit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 25, 2018, 06:19:40 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 25, 2018, 01:46:21 am

It's very unlikely that the Buk was fired by actual Russian troops. Sure, it was equipment provided by the Russians, but that's been pretty obvious for a while.

So, the weapons were Russian, we got that, but there's no real justification to start speculating about conspiracy-theory level ideas such as this being a false-flag operation by the Russians or something. It was just a dumb fuck-up because they gave powerful weapons to idiots.

e.g. we know some launcher systems left the base of the 53rd Brigade in Kursk, and were added to an existing convoy of weapons that was headed towards the border. But, there isn't a shred of evidence that anyone from the 53rd Brigade actually mobilized, and also the specific launcher was identified in photos because it's missing spokes on one wheel. e.g. they sent them the shittiest launchers they had available. That evidence is much more in line with the theory that the Russians scrounged old gear from a number of units then sent it to the Ukrainian rebels.

From the sounds of it, they just thought to send them a little bit of everything, and there was no specific thought given to the AA launchers whatsoever. e.g. having an airliner get shot down by AA weapons is an exceedingly rare event, to the point that if you're giving someone AA weapons to fight a civil war, it's not the kind of thing you'd immediately think about.

Handing out heavy weapons to people who don't know how to use them, thus fucked up shit happens, that's not just a Russian issue. I saw a thing on TV last night about how Saudi Arabia are shelling areas in Yemen with US-supplied gear, but they don't really know how to use the weapons properly, so they cause a lot more civilian casualties than they should. e.g. firing heavy weapons is the easy part, the hard part is having the correct recon information so that you're not targeting things you're not actually trying to hit.

Well, that doesn't necessarily make them much worse than the American troops using American weapons...


Also, just cementing that the launcher was indeed from Russia is a big deal, because Russia has been vehemently denying any such allegations. Again, "obvious" versus "confirmed".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 25, 2018, 09:02:48 am

The reference to "false flag" was in reference to the fact that it was technically possible that the ukranians shot down the plane to blame russia, according to some conspiracy theorists (Which is, I think, Russia's official position on the matter), not to the idea that the russians themselves shot down the liner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 25, 2018, 10:53:07 am

Ah, ok, I hadn't heard that particular one. That's a stupid theory though. Probably spread by the pro-Russia trolls on FB or something though, right?

However, the real irony here is that back in 2001 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812) there was a downed Russian airliner hit by an actual Ukrainian Army AA missile during a training exercise. It seems that Ukrainians, either pro-west or pro-Russia have a thing about accidentally shooting down airliners.

So, a more plausible conspiracy theory would be that this was payback by the Russians for that one. Maybe they meant to hit a Ukrainian airliner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines)? e.g. if there was a UIA flight plan that was close to where MH17 was meant to fly, then you could in fact have a smoking gun that some Russian elements wanted payback for the 2001 incident. However anti-Russian people wouldn't probably spread a theory like this because it would draw attention to the fact that Ukraine did in fact shoot down a Russian plane, first.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2018, 12:03:58 pm

Hadn’t heard about that one, which isn’t surprising given how close that was to 9/11.

If they really wanted to aim at an Ukrainian airliner, all they had to do was look at the planes transponder which I’m sure even old Soviet radar can see.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on May 26, 2018, 09:24:10 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 25, 2018, 12:03:58 pm

Hadn’t heard about that one, which isn’t surprising given how close that was to 9/11.

If they really wanted to aim at an Ukrainian airliner, all they had to do was look at the planes transponder which I’m sure even old Soviet radar can see.

Well, they shot down a Malaysian plane, so apparently they're not that great.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on May 26, 2018, 08:55:38 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/26/614655703/ireland-votes-to-lift-its-abortion-ban-exit-polls-show

66.4% that's quite the win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 26, 2018, 09:04:06 pm

As mentioned verbatim by Varadkar, this outcome goes beyond abortion and effectively signifies Ireland's own version of the Quiet Revolution. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Revolution) With a difference of about 30% between yes and no, the RCC in Ireland is sitting dead in the water. Much of their political control endures for the moment, but I think this is a clear demonstration of how much the rolling controversies have turned Irish people against them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on May 28, 2018, 06:47:33 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 25, 2018, 01:46:21 am

It's very unlikely that the Buk was fired by actual Russian troops. Sure, it was equipment provided by the Russians, but that's been pretty obvious for a while.

I am quite curious. Why do you think Russians couldn't supply crew together with the equipment? I can't find any reason not to. Their own men actually know how to fire it. Their own men will ensure that this equipment won't be lost or vandalized

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 28, 2018, 07:31:47 am

Quote from: Strongpoint on May 28, 2018, 06:47:33 am

Quote from: Reelya on May 25, 2018, 01:46:21 am

It's very unlikely that the Buk was fired by actual Russian troops. Sure, it was equipment provided by the Russians, but that's been pretty obvious for a while.

I am quite curious. Why do you think Russians couldn't supply crew together with the equipment? I can't find any reason not to. Their own men actually know how to fire it. Their own men will ensure that this equipment won't be lost or vandalized

Because there’s a political difference between arming a group with weapons and sending your own troops to fire those weapons, and by Russia’s frenzied denial of the Crimean “little green men” thing they seem to care about only being caught doing the former

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 28, 2018, 07:37:55 am

idk now, i had a look at the evidence in the bellingcat documents, and the Buk launchers are a fair bit bigger and more complex than I thought they would be. Apparently they have a command/control vehicle and separate launch vehicles, whereas I was assuming they were like single-vehicle launchers. It's probably right that they were too complex to just hand to rebels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 30, 2018, 08:29:04 pm

Bravo EU.  Bravo. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=fvXOfq3AB8s)

Introducing mandatory upload filtering and taxes on links between sites to the internet.  By the way, it overrides previous Fair Use laws and makes platforms entirely responsible for what the users do unless it can prove absolutely everything was tried, and even then it might not be enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on May 30, 2018, 08:40:10 pm

What the hell, a "link tax"? how the hell is that going to be workable in any way shape or form? forums will have to ban links from their pages then, on the off-chance that it could be linking to copyrighted news articles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 30, 2018, 08:50:41 pm

Quote from: Reelya on May 30, 2018, 08:40:10 pm

What the hell, a "link tax"? how the hell is that going to be workable in any way shape or form? forums will have to ban links from their pages then, on the off-chance that it could be linking to copyrighted news articles.

Github's outright admitted it's operation ability would be so thoroughly gutted they don't think they could ever work in the EU, forums are noted to have serious risk, and there's uncertainty that Reddit, Pintrest, Twitch, Imgur, Wordpress, Medium, and Vimeo could function there either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 30, 2018, 09:06:57 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 30, 2018, 08:51:50 pm

Is there an available full text of this thing out there?

Only thing I can find is a partial, as Brussels apparently hasn't released the full thing. There's a bit of it here (http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/article-13-information-to-be-provided-where-personal-data-are-collected-from-the-data-subject-GDPR.htm), but that's by no means a complete text.

Still, it seems as if this would have a domino effect of causing a large chunk of the tech sector to abandon EU territory in favor of greener pastures like the non or soon to be non member states of the EU/ECC in Europe, possibly causing an economic downturn as a result.  As noted, Github has expressly stated they probably won't be able to function in Europe, indicating many sites would probably abandon ship (ie. Cutting off access to anyone to head off potential suits), and search engines up to Google could potentially be non-functional due to the link tax situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 30, 2018, 09:16:45 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 30, 2018, 09:15:33 pm

Yeah, there's not much to be concerned about with what you linked there; it's just a "when you collect personal information, give them a giant disclaimer about it" policy. There's definitely something missing if people are kicking up such a fuss.

The catch is, I don't know if that's the right one.  It might be, but it might not.

Edit: Used the video and went through a few news article links.  This looks to be the right one (http://copybuzz.com/copyright/france-spain-italy-and-portugal-go-beyond-maximalist-on/).  Seems I tracked the wrong Article 13 before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on May 30, 2018, 09:44:22 pm

Quote from: Ispil on May 30, 2018, 09:41:10 pm

Well, that gets me the text of a proposed amendment, which covers some (but not all) of what's being discussed here. No mention of a "link tax" in the amendment, and as far as I can tell Github does not qualify as an "online content sharing provider" under the original or the proposed change to the text given that they can either be classified as a "open source software development platform... which [does] not store or give access to content for profit making purposes" or a "private cloud repository," depending on function. Then again, I don't think that's the concern here, but I really do need some of the actual text regarding a "link tax" to be clear what's actually being said.

It seems, though, at least under the proposed amendment, that they wish to classify any public hosting service that exists to promote said hosted content as an "online content sharing provider" and hold them as liable for any violation of the many EU laws regarding speech and violations thereof, insomuch that they have not attempted to do so with "best [effort]" using methods "agreed upon with rightholders". That is to say, if you as an entity are a public content hosting entity whose content is not hosted for scientific, historical, or educational purposes and whose content is also not utilized for open-source software development, that you must police the content that you host regardless of whether you profit from said content.

Well, the link is about a month old at this point, with at least one meeting having taken place between then and now (4th of May) noted within the article.  Changes between then and now have probably manifested, but I have no idea where to track that stuff down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 31, 2018, 11:04:13 am

Looks like Spain's Rajoy is getting ousted in a vote of no confidence (https://www.politico.eu/article/rajoy-to-be-ousted-as-spains-prime-minister/), to be replaced with Pedro Sanchez of the Spanish Socialist Party. What that means for the whole Catalan issue, I don't know exactly, but both the Basque nationalist party and two of the pro-independence Catalan parties support Sanchez.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 31, 2018, 12:05:26 pm

There were bilateral winks between the nationalists and the socialist party. EG: the Catalonians have withdrawn some polemic figures from their goverment, and the socialist candidate has openly said that although he will "defend the territorial integrity of Spain", he recognizes the existence within Spain of "other nationalities"

If I had to guess: No independence referendum, but the 155 will get lifted and there might be a reform/improvement of Catalonian autonomy....

Plus minus more power devolved to the Basque goverment. Plus the national budget with more funding for the Basque Country that the Basque Nationalist party milked out of Rajoy's goverment last week stays in place....  I think all in all we are doing allright. A Basque political comentator quipped that he's beginning to think that someone in the Basque Nationalist Party travelled to the future and came back with an almanac, as the whole sequence of events has been almost too convenient.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 01, 2018, 12:01:46 pm

Also in news, a populist / right-wing coalition is taking power in Italy it seems.

Policies seem to be mass deportations of immigrants, a guaranteed basic income and tax cuts for everyone, through flattening the tax system to two tiers (the top one of which is 20%, down from over 40% right now), along with abandoning increases in sales tax and excise duties. They also want to renegotiate Italy's debts and both parties are anti-Euro / pro-"Italexit", though they've soften the anti-Euro talk as of recently.

All up, they've promised a bucketload of spending increases along with the tax cuts, all of which for the EU nation with one of the biggest existing debt to GDP ratios already. However, the GBI money for the poor should have an out-sized effect on growing GDP since poor people spend all the money you give them. So it's better than taxbreaks for billionaires at least (which would just end up in "Swiss bank accounts" and the like).

So Italy could soon either have an exploding economy in a good way, or an exploding economy in a bad way, it's hard to say right now. Things are going to explode, at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 01, 2018, 12:10:58 pm

AFAIK Both parties backed down from Italexit and leaving the EU doesn't have much track in Italy (less after the Brexit mess). This is not exceptional. I think overall in S. Europe we have tjis feeling of frustration with the EU, but it's not clear Xexit movements are the solution. Much less after the British hara kiri.


Overall the situation in Italy doesnt look good, as increasing spending (basic income) and decreasing tax income (tax cuts for everyone) seems contradictory. I really hope they don't go into a loan clusterfuck like the greeks did, as given the size of Italy's omy it would be even messier

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 03, 2018, 06:41:16 am

British senior civil ervants researching Brexit scenarios have leaked to the Sunday Times.
According to the leaked info, if the Brexit turns out to be a hard, no-deal Brexit, the UK will face food, medicine and petrol shortages within a few weeks, because immeasurable traffic jams will be created, as the borders close and all vehicles need to pass customs checks. Cities in Cornwell and Scotland could even see empty stores in as little as few days.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/sunday-times-bij-een-akkoordloze-brexit-krijgen-de-britten-al-snel-te-maken-met-lege-schappen-en-een-tekort-aan-brandstof-~bcebf98a/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 03, 2018, 06:45:44 am

In that case, shortages will lead to a black market and you'll get some people snapping up whatever they can then scalping it to the rest of you. e.g. stock up heavily on things like toilet paper before that happens.

Of course, the mere thought of shortages causes everyone to stock up, thus exacerbating the problem, so everyone should both panic and stock up, and also not panic and not stock up. It's one of those prisoner's dilemma situations. The personal decision to stock up before the shortages is always the correct one in any scenario, however everybody stocking up at once causes the whole thing to collapse, so collectively, the sum of all the personal decisions which are perfectly rational by themselves in fact causes the entire thing to collapse, and ironically, each and every person ends up worse off compared to the situation where nobody acted in their own personal best interest. Individual rationality = group insanity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 03, 2018, 10:35:19 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 03, 2018, 06:41:16 am

British senior civil ervants researching Brexit scenarios have leaked to the Sunday Times.
According to the leaked info, if the Brexit turns out to be a hard, no-deal Brexit, the UK will face food, medicine and petrol shortages within a few weeks, because immeasurable traffic jams will be created, as the borders close and all vehicles need to pass customs checks. Cities in Cornwell and Scotland could even see empty stores in as little as few days.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/revealed-plans-for-doomsday-no-deal-brexit-02mld2jg2
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/sunday-times-bij-een-akkoordloze-brexit-krijgen-de-britten-al-snel-te-maken-met-lege-schappen-en-een-tekort-aan-brandstof-~bcebf98a/

That's not actually new. Politico Europe already has an article analysis saying that it will be extremely bad. Not quite apocalyptic, but incredibly and unprecedentially disruptive due to the chaos that will result in customs and stuff, hell, even AIR travel will be disrupted as planes might not even be able to take off or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 04, 2018, 02:22:20 am

Quote from: Reelya on June 03, 2018, 06:45:44 am

In that case, shortages will lead to a black market and you'll get some people snapping up whatever they can then scalping it to the rest of you. e.g. stock up heavily on things like toilet paper before that happens.

Of course, the mere thought of shortages causes everyone to stock up, thus exacerbating the problem, so everyone should both panic and stock up, and also not panic and not stock up. It's one of those prisoner's dilemma situations. The personal decision to stock up before the shortages is always the correct one in any scenario, however everybody stocking up at once causes the whole thing to collapse, so collectively, the sum of all the personal decisions which are perfectly rational by themselves in fact causes the entire thing to collapse, and ironically, each and every person ends up worse off compared to the situation where nobody acted in their own personal best interest. Individual rationality = group insanity.

Well, TP doesn't exactly spoil, so you should stock up now, so you're ready for Brexit day while letting shops refill themselves. :p

P.S.: Yeah, the right of planes to fly to other country is a EU thing, so the UK needs to re-negotiate plane access (as well as 50 bajillion things) before the exit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on June 04, 2018, 02:33:27 am

I mean, is it ever bad to have a good supply of TP?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 04, 2018, 03:03:32 am

Yeah, I mainly mentioned it because of stuff like this being fairly common:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/world/asia/taiwan-toilet-paper-shortage.html

Quote

TAIPEI, Taiwan — Across Taiwan’s major cities, consumers are in a near panic over a shortage of one of modern life’s basic necessities: toilet paper.

From Taipei in the north to Tainan in the south, retailers are having difficulty keeping it on their shelves, as reports of imminent price increases have sent consumers rushing to stores to stock up on the household staple, which in Taiwan is sold folded in packs rather than as rolls.

e.g. capitalist Taiwan has panic-buying of toilet paper causing shortages after price hikes are announced. Remember that ironically the same thing happened a couple of years earlier in Venezuela due to "socialism". Panic-buying of toilet paper should be taken in context - a common phenomena in consumer cultures of all types whether left leaning or right leaning.

American had a similar thing happen, once:
https://priceonomics.com/the-great-toilet-paper-scare-of-1973/

Quote

The ground had been set for a consumer panic; all it needed was a spark to ignite it. When Johnny Carson cracked a joke about toilet paper on his television talk show, things got serious. “You know, we’ve got all sorts of shortages these days,” he told 20 million viewers. “But have you heard the latest? I’m not kidding. I saw it in the papers. There’s a shortage of toilet paper!”

Absolute madness ensued. Millions of Americans swarmed grocery outlets and hoarded all the toilet paper they could get their hands on.
...
For four long months, toilet paper was a rare commodity. It was bartered and traded, and a black market even emerged before the whole ordeal subsided in February of 1974. Slowly but surely, the American public realized that there had never been a shortage to begin with: rather, it had been artificially created by a pop culture frenzy.

Toilet-paper being a non-perishable consumable makes it especially prone to these sorts of panic, apparently. Which is all the reason you need to stock up, stock up heavily, and stock up now. Everyone. To avoid the panic.

But it won't happen in the UK because you have substitutes like the Daily Mail.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 04, 2018, 04:18:49 am

This could all have been avoided if they just used squatter toilets and cleaned with water!

Oh, wait, there're water shortages too. Welp.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 04, 2018, 04:47:47 am

Or bidets.

I find the lack of bidets and proper window blinds disturbing. If I get a permanent post and I stay long term you can be sure as hell I'll have a custom house built, with all those things.

It will also have proper central heating, not electric showers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 05, 2018, 07:56:24 am

No, though it would be nice if it would allow us to sort the disruptive stormy weather from the more gentle and sustaining rains. Alas, it is not to be. At least not with water.  ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 05, 2018, 01:44:00 pm

The EU Court has ruled that EU member states are not allowed to refuse recognizing a gay marriage, and all the rights for married couples that that comes with, even if they themselves have not legalized gay marriage.
A Romanian man had filed charges against his home country, after his American husband, with whom he got married in Belgium, was disallowed a visum and work permit, because Romania did not recognize the marriage.
The EU court now ruled that even though they cannot force a country to permit gay marriage nationally, they can force a country to accept a gay marriage that took place in another country for all legal purposes.
In the EU, Letland, Latvia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovakia have not legalized gay marriage, and are outspoken against it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 05, 2018, 01:47:16 pm

Letland? That's not an english name of a country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 05, 2018, 01:49:37 pm

Yeah I was going to comment on that. Traditional homeland of the Lets. It's where the Lets Play.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 05, 2018, 01:50:36 pm

Oh, Letland = Latvia. I meant to say Lithuania and Latvia. I alwyas thought Latvia = Litouwen.
Back when I learned geography in highschool the Baltics were so much easier. It was all just CCCP

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 05, 2018, 01:52:51 pm

Oh, Lithuania then, makes sense given the rest of the list.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 05, 2018, 01:54:29 pm

Litouwen is phonetically and spelling-wise closer to Lithuania. Though I did have a thought that maybe you meant Lithuania before you clarified.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 05, 2018, 05:12:35 pm

A Bulgarian cow named Penka seems to have signed it's own death warrant.
The cow strolled a short distance from it's pasture, over the Serbian border, where the grassland wass a bit greener.
It returned to it's own pasture by itself not much later.
Because of the latter, EU regulations say it has to be killed. An animal that has crossed the borders out of the EU, is forbidden to re-enter the EU.
A lot of Bulgarians are protesting the decision. The Bulgarian minister of agriculture has now promised to look if it is possible to make an exception to the EU law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 05, 2018, 05:18:58 pm

Saw that on another forum, and yeah, it's really dumb because animals have no concept of borders (well, there's territory, but we don't exactly mark national boundaries with our collective urine, if you get my drift) and the cow transported herself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 05, 2018, 07:22:29 pm

Why was the animal able to transport itself across the borders. Do they wild-graze cattle in bulgaria or something?

also solution: give the cow to the serbian neighbour who presumably noticed, in exchange for the value of cow

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 05, 2018, 07:29:53 pm

It all sounds a bit dodgy to me. Who would report such a thing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 05, 2018, 07:52:37 pm

The one article I found (Daily Mail though) said that she wandered away from the village, into Serbia and two weeks later "was returned" to the owner. So she did not in fact find he own way back but was found inside Serbia.

Quote

However, Bulgarian officials said the animal must be put down because of strict EU rules.

Penka will now be executed because she didn't have the proper paperwork - despite being given a clean bill of health by Serbian vets.

So it was wrong only because the summary as we were given was missing some details.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 05, 2018, 09:59:25 pm

Which STILL sounds dodgy because nobody transported the animal, she walked over the border on her own feet, and of course the animal didn't have proper papers, it's a frikking animal.

Would it be reasonable to ask the birds who fly across that border daily for their papers? No, of course not, same for the cow.

Plus euthanizing it simply for crossing the border and someone trying to bring it back seems dumb, if theyre afraid of disease, simply quarrantine it for a period of time.

I also can't help but wonder if theres some Balkan thing going on between the two countries.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 05, 2018, 10:16:21 pm

The problem wasn't when she left Bulgaria on her own, the problem was that the Serbs brought her back, but they didn't go through correct the paperwork according to the rules.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 06, 2018, 01:09:25 am

Volkskrant reported it walked back itself, nothing about Serbs returning her 2 weeks later.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/uitstapje-naar-servie-wordt-koe-mogelijk-fataal~b440189e/ (https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/uitstapje-naar-servie-wordt-koe-mogelijk-fataal~b440189e/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 06, 2018, 02:39:51 am

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/05/nhs-faces-brexit-staffing-crisis-unless-visa-caps-lifted-report

What I find weird about these articles (re: NHS staffing crisis) is how vastly they overestimate foreign interest in working for the NHS and dramatically underestimate how unappealing the overall situation is for someone wanting to move in.  I've gotten messages from four different recruiters concerning positions in the UK, but the way things are going  there is little incentive to bother going through the hoops when the rewars at the end is neither certain nor as appealing as people think.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 06, 2018, 06:12:25 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 05, 2018, 01:44:00 pm

The EU Court has ruled that EU member states are not allowed to refuse recognizing a gay marriage, and all the rights for married couples that that comes with, even if they themselves have not legalized gay marriage.
A Romanian man had filed charges against his home country, after his American husband, with whom he got married in Belgium, was disallowed a visum and work permit, because Romania did not recognize the marriage.
The EU court now ruled that even though they cannot force a country to permit gay marriage nationally, they can force a country to accept a gay marriage that took place in another country for all legal purposes.
In the EU, Letland, Latvia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovakia have not legalized gay marriage, and are outspoken against it.

Really? My reading was that the ruling was much narrower, only requesting that they recognize the right of gay partners for residency purpose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on June 06, 2018, 07:08:29 am

I dug up the ruling (http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf;jsessionid=9ea7d2dc30dd01169079d5c44d1780c1a367aff61ab4.e34KaxiLc3qMb40Rch0SaxyNchb0?text=&docid=202542&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=67192), and it indeed only recognizes residency. Furthermore, if I'm reading it correctly, it's only applicable to similar cases, i.e. when a person has taken up genuine residency in a member state where same sex marriage is allowed and got married while residing there. So e.g. a Romanian gay can't just take a holiday in Belgium, get married there to a non-EU-citizen, and return to Romania with new spouse. (At least without another ruling from the ECJ)

Here's the ruling:

Quote

1.      In a situation in which a Union citizen has made use of his freedom of movement by moving to and taking up genuine residence, in accordance with the conditions laid down in Article 7(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC, in a Member State other than that of which he is a national, and, whilst there, has created and strengthened a family life with a third-country national of the same sex to whom he is joined by a marriage lawfully concluded in the host Member State, Article 21(1) TFEU must be interpreted as precluding the competent authorities of the Member State of which the Union citizen is a national from refusing to grant that third-country national a right of residence in the territory of that Member State on the ground that the law of that Member State does not recognise marriage between persons of the same sex.

2.      Article 21(1) TFEU is to be interpreted as meaning that, in circumstances such as those of the main proceedings, a third-country national of the same sex as a Union citizen whose marriage to that citizen was concluded in a Member State in accordance with the law of that state has the right to reside in the territory of the Member State of which the Union citizen is a national for more than three months. That derived right of residence cannot be made subject to stricter conditions than those laid down in Article 7 of Directive 2004/38.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 07, 2018, 11:02:57 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 06, 2018, 02:39:51 am

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/05/nhs-faces-brexit-staffing-crisis-unless-visa-caps-lifted-report

What I find weird about these articles (re: NHS staffing crisis) is how vastly they overestimate foreign interest in working for the NHS and dramatically underestimate how unappealing the overall situation is for someone wanting to move in.  I've gotten messages from four different recruiters concerning positions in the UK, but the way things are going  there is little incentive to bother going through the hoops when the rewars at the end is neither certain nor as appealing as people think.

As usual, the intent is to create an immigrant caste instead of making the career viable; no thought is put into whether even medicine students have a threshold for bullshit tolerance

Also in spicy political dickings

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/F3ZTQYD.png)

Spicy bois at money war. No point trying to run a democracy if you don't control your money lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 07, 2018, 12:18:14 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 07, 2018, 11:02:57 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 06, 2018, 02:39:51 am

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/05/nhs-faces-brexit-staffing-crisis-unless-visa-caps-lifted-report

What I find weird about these articles (re: NHS staffing crisis) is how vastly they overestimate foreign interest in working for the NHS and dramatically underestimate how unappealing the overall situation is for someone wanting to move in.  I've gotten messages from four different recruiters concerning positions in the UK, but the way things are going  there is little incentive to bother going through the hoops when the rewars at the end is neither certain nor as appealing as people think.

As usual, the intent is to create an immigrant caste instead of making the career viable; no thought is put into whether even medicine students have a threshold for bullshit tolerance

*shrug*
In my particular case I can tell you the two main problems are that the registration process is cumbersome (and expensive) and that, given the current political situation in the UK, there are no guarantees whatsoever about stability, and legal problems .  Plus the offers themselves aren't really that mindblowing, you know. They are not terrible, mind you, just kind of average, but "kind of average"  is not really something that makes me willing to jump through regulatory hoops and risk being eventually thrown to the Channel depending on how terrible the outcome of Brexit ends up being. I'm not saying I wouldn't under any circumstance, but overall the balance is in favor of "eeh, I'm not risking it".

Regarding castes and opportunities: I do get the feeling that medical careers in both the UK and Ireland are stiffled because it's really hard for junior doctors to, well, stop being junior doctors, particularily foreigners, and I feel this is by design rather than chance. This is not directly relevant to my situation as I was already a hospital consultant before leaving my home (and I refused positions as anything else), but I know people both in the UK and the ROI that are very frustrated by the lack of permeability in the system. Odds are that this frustration will grow in the coming months as many of them end up in no man's land....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 07, 2018, 07:14:34 pm

Boris the blabber strikes again (https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/boris-johnson-trump-brexit-leaked-recording?utm_term=.xn7zzdlNMP&bftwuk#.mcn113pWoN). British Foriegn Minister Boris Johnson was speaking to a closed door gathering and said, among other things, that Pompeo wanted British expertise in dismantling a NK missile (whether one that was already acqiured or one that they planned to acquire, no idea). I hope he doesn't screw up the summit because Pompeo asking for British expertise in dismantling a missile sounds like it'd be seriously confidential information, if not top secret, as it doesn't sound like something he should have talked about outside of a government office.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 10, 2018, 04:27:43 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 07, 2018, 11:02:57 am

Apparently what happened was that the ECB had a big chunk of German debt maturing so had to buy a large amount of German bonds. (https://www.ft.com/content/8a688786-67f8-11e8-8cf3-0c230fa67aec) This drove the German share of bond purchase up, and the share of all other countries down, even though the actual amount of Italian bonds purchased in the same period didn't go down.

Edit, I made a graph from ECB data because I'm bored.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/06awMar.png)

You can clearly see that bond purchase are largely in line with the previous months (that big fall is when the ECB switched its purchasing target to 30 billions a month), except for Germany's. So yeah, that image macro is BS.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 10, 2018, 07:04:07 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 07, 2018, 07:14:34 pm

Boris the blabber strikes again (https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/boris-johnson-trump-brexit-leaked-recording?utm_term=.xn7zzdlNMP&bftwuk#.mcn113pWoN). British Foriegn Minister Boris Johnson was speaking to a closed door gathering and said, among other things, that Pompeo wanted British expertise in dismantling a NK missile (whether one that was already acqiured or one that they planned to acquire, no idea). I hope he doesn't screw up the summit because Pompeo asking for British expertise in dismantling a missile sounds like it'd be seriously confidential information, if not top secret, as it doesn't sound like something he should have talked about outside of a government office.

Dunno, UK is a neutral (or more accurately, distant) party in the US-China-Japan-two Koreas stuff, asking for UK nuclear expertise seems like information you can tell the public pretty easily/uncontroversially. Also seems suspicious as to how buzzfeed got a hold of the leaks, and in particular I find it odd that the leaks speak nothing ill of Boris at all - if Boris didn't leak it himself, I'd be surprised. The whole thing sounds like Boris's campaign points against May in the waiting, especially since Boris has been """""subtly""""" making it clear to May that if she bungles Brexit he's going to contest her leadership.

Quote from: Sheb on June 10, 2018, 04:27:43 am

You can clearly see that bond purchase are largely in line with the previous months (that big fall is when the ECB switched its purchasing target to 30 billions a month), except for Germany's. So yeah, that image macro is BS.

Yeah nah fam there's not a soul alive who can't see where there's wrecked rectums there's political dickings

Quote

There it is: The asset purchase program has flexible terms for coping with redemptions that permit deviations for reasons of liquidity concerns. And there was a serious one in the case of Germany; the bank’s purchases drove 10-year yields down by 40 basis points in late May to a new low for the year. The ECB should have known that the tiny German free float meant their overbuying would have sucked up liquidity.

Equally, it should have known that pulling back its normal pace of purchases on Italy would have had a pronounced effect on yields, given the political turmoil. The bank already owns 345 billion euros ($402.5 billion) of Italian government debt. By reducing support for the market during a period of acute difficulty it has trashed the value of its own investment while simultaneously showing that it won’t necessarily do whatever it takes to achieve financial stability.

The bank has previously strayed from the capital key during times of political strife. Italy’s referendum on electoral reform in December 2016 was a tumultuous affair – a loss would have meant an end to Matteo Renzi's premiership, and that’s what happened. But thanks in part to ECB overbuying, yields sailed along with hardly a blip. Similarly, France’s presidential election in 2017 raised the prospect of victory by far-right populists unfriendly to the euro. French bonds deteriorated, but the selloff wasn’t as bad as it might have been, and this is in part because the ECB did its bit.

The ECB has for many months overbought Italy and underbought Germany, and hasn’t gone out of its way to explain this. So it’s odd that May 2018 is the month that it decides to get religion and strictly adhere to its rules for purchases. The argument that it had to soak up German redemptions doesn’t quite cut it – Italy also had substantial redemptions in April and May, and the ECB’s purchases of Italian bonds actually fell, while rising by nearly 50 percent for Germany.

So it's hard to completely shake the feeling that Italian politics informed the ECB's buying decisions in May. ECB spokesman Michael Steen says that its buying decisions are “never about politics.” But this inflexible interpretation of its script forgets the supreme flexibility it has shown in the past. If it had adhered instead to "if warranted by market liquidity conditions," it may have trodden more lightly.
Bloomberg noos (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-09/singapore-summit-the-best-and-worst-outcomes)

The EU is in an unenviable situation. Treating Italy like Greece though... Seems like a poor life choice. Italy actually has power

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 07, 2018, 12:18:14 pm

Regarding castes and opportunities: I do get the feeling that medical careers in both the UK and Ireland are stiffled because it's really hard for junior doctors to, well, stop being junior doctors, particularily foreigners, and I feel this is by design rather than chance. This is not directly relevant to my situation as I was already a hospital consultant before leaving my home (and I refused positions as anything else), but I know people both in the UK and the ROI that are very frustrated by the lack of permeability in the system. Odds are that this frustration will grow in the coming months as many of them end up in no man's land....

This is something I hear a lot. Loads of desire to exploit as much work with as little cost as possible... It's bloody inhuman how we completely shaft medical workers (nurses especially good Lord), going from paying them to train, to having them pay for the level of work they're doing. Seems in the contest between having a porous border or public services, private services is to be the future. I do sometimes wonder what the hell they teach our future leaders at Oxbridge. Government seems hell bent on cutting costs by eliminating overtime pay, whilst increasing work demands on junior medical workers. Chances are it is by design, cos the health department knows it holds a near monopoly on the career progression junior doctors use to become consultants. We're seeing a bloody mass exodus of junior doctors to private or foreign medical service, who would've though we'd see the day when more than half of graduate med students chose anything but the NHS?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2018, 01:44:41 am

A) Your link is to an article about the Singapore summit.
B) Italian bonds purchase didn't fall. There is some month-to-month variation, and the purchase for May were a bit less than in April, but higher than in March.
C) The amount of Italians bonds purchased closely tracked that of French and Spanish bonds purchases in May (See my graph). If the ECB's goal was to put pressure on Italian bonds, you'd expect them to buy less Italians, not just buy a bunch more of German ones.
D) Corollary to C, it's quite telling that your original post focused on Italian share of the total purchase to make it look like there was a big fall in purchasing, rather than look directly at purchasing number. I'm not saying you're dishonest, but the guy that originally made that macro or chose those indicators certainly is.
E) The pattern of buying (purchase for May slower than April, but higher than March) is the same for pretty much every country bar Germany. If it's the ECB that caused a rise in rates rather than the political situation, you'd see the same rise in rate for all other countries in May.  Spoiler alert, you don't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2018, 02:21:34 am

Um, the only link in his entire post is mine linking to a buzzfeed article talking about the leaked Boris Johnson recordings. It was just me talking specifically about the NK thing Boris Johnson leaked.

@LW: Since it’s straight from Boris’s mouth, why would he say anything ill of himself? Not like he was doing a stand up comedy routine. Even if the U.K. is a neutral or distant party, it’s still somewhat embarrassing to the US to mention it in public, especially of hinting at acquiring a NK missile and recruiting the British to study it. Although, why the heck would we need the Britishes help in studying an acquired NK missile? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense unless it’s the intel sharing partnership thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2018, 02:24:15 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 11, 2018, 02:21:34 am

Um, the only link in his entire post is mine linking to a buzzfeed article talking about the leaked Boris Johnson recordings. It was just me talking specifically about the NK thing Boris Johnson leaked.

Nah, there is the one to "Bloomberg noos" at the end of that big quote about the ECB in LW's post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2018, 02:35:48 am

Oh whoops, and yeah that one is about the summit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on June 11, 2018, 03:07:34 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 11, 2018, 02:21:34 am

Although, why the heck would we need the Britishes help in studying an acquired NK missile?

Perhaps the US is worried that a NK missile is prone to explode with the smallest nudge, and want someone else to poke it. Britain wants to be buddies with the US, so they are unlikely to turn down this awesome offer of blowing up friendship.

Come to think of it, if they want a third party to look at a NK missile, there may not be that many countries with the missile expertise to ask. Britain is a more neutral option compared to Russia (too good buddies with NK) or Israel (too good buddies with US). France might be an alternative. Not that I'm an expert on nations specializing in missile warfare. (Looking at cruise missile's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile) wikipedia article, other (semi-)neutral options seem to be India, Pakistan, Sweden and Germany. And I don't think the US would ask India or Pakistan. One would get quite upset if the other gets to poke at a foreign missile design.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2018, 03:12:36 am

Is the Brexit thread dead?

In any case, the EC's new science plan (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05392-7?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nature%2Frss%2Fcurrent+%28Nature+-+Issue%29) now let non-member countries joins into the new Horizon program. Given the amount of cooperation we do with British universities, I really hope that Britain signs up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 11, 2018, 07:07:51 am

It has come to light that major Brexit campaign funder Arron 'Piggy' Banks had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador in London, and made a trip to Moscow during the Brexit campaign.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/brexit-geldschieter-arron-banks-had-nauwe-banden-met-het-kremlin~b1e80b90/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-brexit-backer-arron-bankss-golden-kremlin-connection-7nbwc7m58

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2018, 08:53:37 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 11, 2018, 07:07:51 am

It has come to light that major Brexit campaign funder Arron 'Piggy' Banks had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador in London, and made a trip to Moscow during the Brexit campaign.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/brexit-geldschieter-arron-banks-had-nauwe-banden-met-het-kremlin~b1e80b90/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-brexit-backer-arron-bankss-golden-kremlin-connection-7nbwc7m58

Russia was in favour of brexit because it weapons the EU as an economic bloc, news at 11

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 11, 2018, 09:02:37 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2018, 08:53:37 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 11, 2018, 07:07:51 am

It has come to light that major Brexit campaign funder Arron 'Piggy' Banks had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador in London, and made a trip to Moscow during the Brexit campaign.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/brexit-geldschieter-arron-banks-had-nauwe-banden-met-het-kremlin~b1e80b90/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-brexit-backer-arron-bankss-golden-kremlin-connection-7nbwc7m58

Russia was in favour of brexit because it weapons the EU as an economic bloc, news at 11

Russia favouring an outcome doesn't mean they tried to influence the outcome, so in this sense it could be news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 11, 2018, 10:51:59 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 11, 2018, 09:02:37 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on June 11, 2018, 08:53:37 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 11, 2018, 07:07:51 am

It has come to light that major Brexit campaign funder Arron 'Piggy' Banks had multiple meetings with the Russian ambassador in London, and made a trip to Moscow during the Brexit campaign.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/brexit-geldschieter-arron-banks-had-nauwe-banden-met-het-kremlin~b1e80b90/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/revealed-brexit-backer-arron-bankss-golden-kremlin-connection-7nbwc7m58

Russia was in favour of brexit because it weapons the EU as an economic bloc, news at 11

Russia favouring an outcome doesn't mean they tried to influence the outcome, so in this sense it could be news.

Uh, did you forget what they tried to do with the US? It still looks suspicious however you slice it because of how Russia acts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 11, 2018, 12:47:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 05, 2018, 05:12:35 pm

A Bulgarian cow named Penka seems to have signed it's own death warrant.
The cow strolled a short distance from it's pasture, over the Serbian border, where the grassland wass a bit greener.
It returned to it's own pasture by itself not much later.
Because of the latter, EU regulations say it has to be killed. An animal that has crossed the borders out of the EU, is forbidden to re-enter the EU.
A lot of Bulgarians are protesting the decision. The Bulgarian minister of agriculture has now promised to look if it is possible to make an exception to the EU law.

Penka you're free! (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/11/brexit-bulletin-victory-penka-cow-spared-slaughter-crossing/)
https://youtu.be/RTlY8lXZaE0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 21, 2018, 06:41:38 am

The British trade minister just resigned rather than follow the government line and vote in favour of the Heathrow runway expension. While you have to admire his principles, you have to wonder what the impact will be for the ongoing Brexitnam.

Boris Johnson, who once claimed he'd lie in front of the bulldozers to stop the Heathrow expension, is expected to keep beeing a spineless buffoon, so at least that's some stability. Although I wonder if May wouldn't be happy to see him resign on the matter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 21, 2018, 06:52:25 am

Junior trade minister. BoJo is out of the country when the vote happens on Monday, so will miss the vote anyway.

Beeb (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44561170)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2018, 07:39:07 pm

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/06/anti-tank-missile-fired-at-amsterdam-office-block-one-person-arrested/
Amsterdam Office Block fired upon with anti-tank missile

So yeah that's a thing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on June 23, 2018, 07:48:15 pm

That'll be the one Martinuzz mentioned in the WTF thread the other day.

Quote from: martinuzz on June 22, 2018, 07:39:06 am

An office building in Amsterdam that houses the redactions of the magazines De Nieuwe Revu, Panorama, and Playboy has been attacked with an anti-tank weapon.
No one was hurt, but the office's front and windows are damaged, and a toilet has collapsed.
Magazine editors have resumed work as if nothing has happened.
The anti-tank weapon was left at the scene.
Amsterdam police have a suspect in custody.
The identity of the suspect, and a motive for the attack are as of yet unknown.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 25, 2018, 03:21:58 pm

Netherlands can into Nordic, I guess? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War#The_conflict)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 25, 2018, 10:07:26 pm

I think the Volksrant article martinuzz linked to earlier said that it was a new gang that was trying to strut their stuff or something. Someone from a new biker gang shooting an antitank weapon at a building sounds like the easiest way to put a bullseye on their backs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2018, 01:15:53 am

Yeah the guy that shot the anti-tank weapon was the leader of a relatively unknown and new biker gang that was already under scrutiny of the Justice department, which was investigating the possibility of forbidding the organisation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 26, 2018, 03:44:48 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 25, 2018, 10:07:26 pm

I think the Volksrant article martinuzz linked to earlier said that it was a new gang that was trying to strut their stuff or something. Someone from a new biker gang shooting an antitank weapon at a building sounds like the easiest way to put a bullseye on their backs.

Hell's Satans?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on June 26, 2018, 04:25:55 am

And now there was a van ramming into De Telegraaf (https://www.dw.com/en/van-slams-into-dutch-newspaper-hq-in-deliberate-attack/a-44396618) (another newspaper)'s office during the night. What is it with gang and newspapers? Did they report badly on it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 26, 2018, 07:18:07 am

Quote from: Sheb on June 26, 2018, 04:25:55 am

And now there was a van ramming into De Telegraaf (https://www.dw.com/en/van-slams-into-dutch-newspaper-hq-in-deliberate-attack/a-44396618) (another newspaper)'s office during the night. What is it with gang and newspapers? Did they report badly on it?

Van Ramming could well be the name of a dutch biker gangster

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2018, 10:56:10 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 26, 2018, 03:44:48 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 25, 2018, 10:07:26 pm

I think the Volksrant article martinuzz linked to earlier said that it was a new gang that was trying to strut their stuff or something. Someone from a new biker gang shooting an antitank weapon at a building sounds like the easiest way to put a bullseye on their backs.

Hell's Satans?

Nah, the 'Caloh Wagoh McMain Triad'  Never heard of it before 2 days ago. Sounds like either Scottish or US terrorists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 26, 2018, 12:53:50 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on June 26, 2018, 10:56:10 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 26, 2018, 03:44:48 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 25, 2018, 10:07:26 pm

I think the Volksrant article martinuzz linked to earlier said that it was a new gang that was trying to strut their stuff or something. Someone from a new biker gang shooting an antitank weapon at a building sounds like the easiest way to put a bullseye on their backs.

Hell's Satans?

Nah, the 'Caloh Wagoh McMain Triad'  Never heard of it before 2 days ago. Sounds like either Scottish or US terrorists

US terrorists wouldn't be using something that sounds gibberishy, and it sounds like maybe Irish.

Anyhow, I bet older biker gangs are facepalming at the audacity of this group since it's not going to last long if they're going to be like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2018, 01:13:29 pm

Two of the larger biker clubs have already been forbidden quite recently, with much trouble (judges didn't want to outlaw entire biker clubs because freedom of expression blah blah).
Satudarah and Bandidos have been forbidden already, Justice department is very busy forbidding the Hells Angels too (on grounds of being a criminal organisation)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 26, 2018, 07:38:51 pm

Won't they just reform in a "not biker gang" biker gang

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 26, 2018, 10:36:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 26, 2018, 07:38:51 pm

Won't they just reform in a "not biker gang" biker gang

Leather Vest Enthusiast Gant. They have bikes, but are totally not bikers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 27, 2018, 03:14:24 am

If you think that's a shit law look at the end result of Australia's "biker" crackdown. In NSW, the largest state, they passed a "consorting" law where you can be jailed for up to three years for just being friends with two people who've previously served time for any offense, no matter how minor. All supposedly to stop bikers, but with predictable effects of people who've committed no crime being jailed merely because of who their friends are.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/guilt-by-association/news-story/92e62abb53bf98d7e515846a89dbc81b?sv=a2cce6915e55322fdfe14c61cb314024

Naturally, you can see how dangerous such a law is for democracy. If the police arrest and convict my friends for protesting, can i subsequently be jailed for speaking to them? Legally, yes. Luckily I moved out of that state about the same time that law was passed (I have several friends up there who've done time, so it's possible ...).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 27, 2018, 08:33:37 am

Quote from: Teneb on June 26, 2018, 10:36:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 26, 2018, 07:38:51 pm

Won't they just reform in a "not biker gang" biker gang

Leather Vest Enthusiast Gant. They have bikes, but are totally not bikers.

Isn't the term "Bike-curious"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 01, 2018, 04:42:57 pm

I can't wait to say 'I told you so' when they end up not leaving.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 01, 2018, 04:49:10 pm

They’re going to leave, they’re just not going to get a deal, which’ll fuck everything up.

The last few months you’ve had Gavin Williamson, defence secretary, say he’s going to demand more money or break Theresa May, you’ve had Boris Johnson, foreign minister, say “fuck business” in response to Airbus et. al say they’ll cut back in the UK if they get no deal, and Michael Gove, environment secretary, tear up a report that he disagrees with and tell a tabloid about it, among other things I can’t recall off the top of my head.

The government can’t get their shit together less than 4 months before they need to have a deal in place. It would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking stupid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 01, 2018, 05:24:43 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 01, 2018, 04:39:13 pm

According to the EU, it's exceptionally unlikely the UK will be able to secure a deal with them before October.

If that's correct, then we've got a few choices it seems: Instantly capitulate and drop to a Norway style model or similar, crash out and watch the economy go to shit, or cancel the whole thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-uk-withdrawal-deal-october-december-european-council-a8423061.html

Nah fam, just you watch

2019 will come around and we'll enter the transitionary post-Brexit "Brexit" initial emergency negotiation period to negotiate Brexit proper, after that the preliminary penultimate Brexit consultation period, followed by the finalization of the realization of the envisaged post-concluded-Brexit negotiations, to be indicated by the Brexit ratification interrogation quantification legislation constipation

Quote from: greatorder on July 01, 2018, 04:55:44 pm

That pretty much sums up how it feels to me.
With any bloody luck, we'll just go "Fuck it, we're staying" but we presently have a bus full of kids and a suicidal busdriver.

For me my hopes rest on 'Fuck it, we've left' but the bus is stationary and full of ironic jihad

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 01, 2018, 05:29:16 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/01/nhs-preparing-for-disruption-to-supplies-from-no-deal-brexit

I've decided that TheDwarf1 and greatorder will be my local deputies and enforcers in my upcoming aspirin-and-potatoes smuggling cartel. I have a vacant for LoudWhispers as a dealer if he's willing to do the streets

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 01, 2018, 05:38:30 pm

Lost a lot of good friends in the aspirin-paracetomol turf wars of 2008.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 01, 2018, 08:08:34 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 01, 2018, 07:54:46 pm

Cool. How much am I getting paid? I mean, gotta remember the pound will be worth about 3x as much as the Zimbabwean dollar after Brexit.

You do not know how bad things can become (https://www.zimbabwesituation.com/news/zimbabwes-finance-minister-cuts-the-ribbon-on-a-new-set-of-bins/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 01, 2018, 09:03:35 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 01, 2018, 04:39:13 pm

According to the EU, it's exceptionally unlikely the UK will be able to secure a deal with them before October.

If that's correct, then we've got a few choices it seems: Instantly capitulate and drop to a Norway style model or similar, crash out and watch the economy go to shit, or cancel the whole thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-uk-withdrawal-deal-october-december-european-council-a8423061.html

I wonder how much of a shock to the global economy metaphorically taking a (laser sharp, for the sake of the metaphor) guillotine to the big cable of stuff that connects the UK to the EU. There was a limited version of what would happen after 9/11 and that created a lot of havoc, and that voluntary one only lasted a couple weeks before it got too painful to the economy to continue it.

If Britain does do the hard no-deal exit, it won't have the luxury of going back if it gets too painful.

Quote from: hector13 on July 01, 2018, 04:49:10 pm

They’re going to leave, they’re just not going to get a deal, which’ll fuck everything up.

The last few months you’ve had Gavin Williamson, defence secretary, say he’s going to demand more money or break Theresa May, you’ve had Boris Johnson, foreign minister, say “fuck business” in response to Airbus et. al say they’ll cut back in the UK if they get no deal, and Michael Gove, environment secretary, tear up a report that he disagrees with and tell a tabloid about it, among other things I can’t recall off the top of my head.

The government can’t get their shit together less than 4 months before they need to have a deal in place. It would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking stupid.

I thought Airbus was like, the iconic British airline manufacturer? it'd be like forcing Boeing out of the US.

Feeling a little skittish aren't you, Britain? (https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-ii-death-plans-gets-a-cold-u-k-ministers-get-in-gear/) lol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 02, 2018, 06:42:33 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 01, 2018, 09:03:35 pm

I thought Airbus was like, the iconic British airline manufacturer? it'd be like forcing Boeing out of the US.

Kind of; they're a joint project between the UK, France, and Germany, with the ultimate origins being French and German (50% shareholder split between Aérospatiale and Deutsche Airbus; the British didn't join in until almost 10 years later).  You may also be thinking of BAE Systems, or British Aerospace Systems: the second-largest defense contractor in the world and no lightweight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 02, 2018, 05:40:43 pm

Looks like Northern Ireland, or more specifically, the Northern Ireland - Republic of Ireland border, is causing severe problems as far as Brexit goes, because it's leading to a ticking political time bomb. (https://www.politico.eu/article/london-brexit-time-bomb-is-about-to-blow-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement/)

Basically the problem is how to protect the integrity of the open border in Ireland. Right now, Brussels is giving two options, stay in the EU market in a Norway Plus type deal, or leave, minus Northern Ireland. The catch here is that, according to the article, the only way to preserve the NI-RoI borders and protect the integrity of it's (not sure who the article is referring to here, England?) market, Britain has to give up sovereignity of NI (Scotland is gonna scream "WHAT ABOUT ME DANGIT!?!?" for sure).

Had to read the article a few times to be sure that's what it was saying, because being forced to give up a chunk of it's territory usually takes a war to happen. No idea what that would mean, if say, Italy were to exit, unless it's something unique to Brexit because of Northern Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 02, 2018, 05:57:10 pm

...politico.eu is far from being the best site to get informed about this stuff, smjjames. It's pretty much a russianbot site. Hence the fact that you can find two articles saying contrary things on the same day  :P

To summarize

Quote

Basically the problem is how to protect the integrity of the open border in Ireland.

Long story short, but yeah, GFA

Quote

Right now, Brussels is giving two options,

Not really. Brussels is asking the British goverment to present a Brexit plan stating what they want. As it stands, the British goverment has two official suggestions: custom partnership and max fac (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43979180). Neither is considered viable by the EU

Quote

stay in the EU market in a Norway Plus type deal

No. This is what some in the British goverment muse they want. AKA: Stay in the single market but without the Four Freedoms (http://en.euabc.com/word/506). Goes without saying this is not regarded as viable by the EU.

What they could do is stay in the EEA in a Norway or Swiss style deal. That would keep them in the single market, but crucially, would also preserve the Four Freedoms (and in the case of a Norway model, the ECJ). Which aren't acceptable to Theresa May's goverment.

Quote

or leave, minus Northern Ireland

Not quite. The EU suggested as a backstop, should no other solution be presented, a fallback position in which NI, while being still British, would stay in the Single Market. This was not acceptable to the British goverment because in that scenario they'd have to keep NI outside British customs.
The British goverment counteroffer was to make the backstop apply to all the UK, but this was not acceptable to the EU because it'd be basically a backdoor for a Norway Plus deal.

Quote

The catch here is that, according to the article, the only way to preserve the NI-RoI borders and protect the integrity of it's (not sure who the article is referring to here, England?) market, Britain has to give up sovereignity of NI

This is the bit that is pure fake news  :P. Neither the EU nor the British goverment are actually suggesting sovereignity changes.

Quote

Had to read the article a few times to be sure that's what it was saying, because being forced to give up a chunk of it's territory usually takes a war to happen

See above

Quote

No idea what that would mean, if say, Italy were to exit, unless it's something unique to Brexit because of Northern Ireland.

The whole backstop thing is because of Irish politics, which I will defer to Irish people to explain, as these days I struggle even trying to explain Spanish politics  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 02, 2018, 07:37:28 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 02, 2018, 05:40:43 pm

Looks like Northern Ireland, or more specifically, the Northern Ireland - Republic of Ireland border, is causing severe problems as far as Brexit goes, because it's leading to a ticking political time bomb. (https://www.politico.eu/article/london-brexit-time-bomb-is-about-to-blow-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement/)

Basically the problem is how to protect the integrity of the open border in Ireland. Right now, Brussels is giving two options, stay in the EU market in a Norway Plus type deal, or leave, minus Northern Ireland. The catch here is that, according to the article, the only way to preserve the NI-RoI borders and protect the integrity of it's (not sure who the article is referring to here, England?) market, Britain has to give up sovereignity of NI (Scotland is gonna scream "WHAT ABOUT ME DANGIT!?!?" for sure).

Had to read the article a few times to be sure that's what it was saying, because being forced to give up a chunk of it's territory usually takes a war to happen. No idea what that would mean, if say, Italy were to exit, unless it's something unique to Brexit because of Northern Ireland.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 05:30:55 pm

Spoiler: obligatory (click to show/hide)

The Ireland-Northern Ireland situation is pretty simple* for the immediate future, the Republic of Ireland is not a member of the schengen area nor is Northern Ireland or the UK. The UK and Ireland have had de facto free movement for the past century of peace time in their own bilateral agreements and cooperation, whilst both have maintained the same hesitance towards entangling one's nation with EU institutions. Ireland does not have land connections to the EU through Northern Ireland, its major connection is to Northern Ireland & the UK itself (which is something I would be intrigued to see change, if the EU built a tunnel connecting Ireland to the UK, Ireland would have a direct land connection to Europe through overland railway and the channel tunnel).

Regarding this, in an unusual display of unanimous sanity, Irish, British and EU leaders have all agreed to maintain the status quo in order to not provoke new troubles.
(https://i.imgur.com/JsPL4do.png)
Green = Common Travel Area
Blue = Schengen Area
Grey = Dudes who use borders when their governments exist
*Thus it is simple for the purposes of travel arrangements. Everything stays the same in that regard

But this issue also pertains to the movement of goods & EU regulations, which is a somewhat different matter. The politico article details the options unnamed EU officials say the UK has, but for obvious reasons, I wouldn't put much faith in unnamed EU officials having no stake in the matter - both options they provide both keep the UK within the EU whilst invalidating its influence. So surprise surprise, unnamed EU officials say the UK has no option but to stay in the EU: News at 10.

For starters, membership of the single market or customs union is not an objective of the UK government - there is simply no way the UK is "leaving the EU" yet allowing the EU to dictate the UK's trade with planet Earth; the EU would be free to destroy the UK with no consequence, thus this control cannot be in any hands but the UK's. Theresa May and her loyal cabinet ministers have gone on about how they seek a transitionary period of membership to the common market, either in part or in full, while she contends with the ascendant and remnant Tory factions. The former demands nothing less than complete withdrawal from the common market, while the latter demands nothing less than full membership or access to the common market, thus the compromise leaves both wings entirely dissatisfied and is merely a stratagem used to buy May's career more time.

Regarding Ireland, I'm more bothered that the EU is willing to use Ireland as a bargaining chip, than the issue of Ireland's border itself. You don't bargain with sovereignty, nor play with breaking uneasy peace. If I were Theresa May, I'd point out something obvious to the unnamed EU officials, both those options entail the surrender of the UK to supposed allies and are unacceptable. If the EU wants to stop UK-Ireland free trade, they're welcome to set up border checks on their side, it'd be up to the EU to stop free trade between the ROI and NI to preserve their economic control of the ROI. If the attitude of the EU really is you must accept integration, vassalization or balkanisation, it's time the UK stopped negotiating and just left - they're clearly offering no reasonable choices if they're flat out ignoring the UK, offering to take the UK's sovereignty in exchange for a trojan horse. I have no faith in Theresa May, but Davis and the DUP will sooner collapse the Tory government than allow May to sell any part of the UK.

Fingers crossed it's just Russians sowing discord between London & Brussels though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 02, 2018, 08:02:23 pm

@Chairmanpoo: Or maybe it's because there are writers who are on both sides of Brexit, I'd hardly call Politico a russianbot site. It may be exaggerated a bit, but as mentioned at the bottom of this BBC article (https://www.politico.eu/article/london-brexit-time-bomb-is-about-to-blow-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement/), they're definetly making an issue out of North Ireland.

Anyways, yeah, the whole removing of North Ireland is pretty extraordinary. I get how NI politics, particularily rejoining the rest of Ireland, might play into it, but still. Also, in hindsight, I guess that article I linked is more of an opinion piece without really stating that it is.

I guess the point is more that if Brussels doesn't change their position, a political crisis is all but inevitable. Plus the fact that they're running out of time (December is the latest that they can get something signed which will be able to go into effect by next March) and whatever comes out of this big meeting on Friday might be their last chance. Or maybe it'll be the last chance for Theresa May as it seems to imply.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 12:34:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 02, 2018, 08:02:23 pm

@Chairmanpoo: Or maybe it's because there are writers who are on both sides of Brexit, I'd hardly call Politico a russianbot site.

Just look arouund the site a bit and you'll see. That's not journalism :P :P

Quote

It may be exaggerated a bit, but as mentioned at the bottom of this BBC article (https://www.politico.eu/article/london-brexit-time-bomb-is-about-to-blow-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement/), they're definetly making an issue out of North Ireland.

It's not that "they" are making an issue of NI. It's that the GFA was based on a series of xonsitions that effectively break down on Brexit. Therefore there is an impossible conundrum.

[spoiler]
Anyways, yeah, the whole removing of North Ireland is pretty extraordinary. I get how NI politics, particularily rejoining the rest of Ireland, might play into it, but still.
[/quote]
Notice that is not what is being negotiated

Quote

Also, in hindsight, I guess that article I linked is more of an opinion piece without really stating that it is.

Yeah. That should make you suspicious  :P :P :P
I mean its not like any media is neutral, ever, but politico.eu are consistently the worst source

Quote

I guess the point is more that if Brussels doesn't change their position, a political crisis is all but inevitable. Plus the fact that they're running out of time (December is the latest that they can get something signed which will be able to go into effect by next March) and whatever comes out of this big meeting on Friday might be their last chance. Or maybe it'll be the last chance for Theresa May as it seems to imply.

A political crisis is unevitable, if it ever was evitable.  May's goverment wants a bespoke deal and can't accept anything else because their party is pretty much split about Brexit (much like Labor). A bespoke deal is not acceptable to the 27, because it's bending the rules of the SM further than they can or want to afford, particularily at a time of crisis.  I'm pretty sure there's going to be a hard border because there was no way to square the circle with that, and on the other hand odds are we are heading to a no deal Brexit because time is running out already and there is no agreement in sight, and little prospect that there will be.

If you notice both the UK and EU institutions are beginnimg to hint that "although it might be unlikely"  people would better prepare for a no deal brexit, "just in case".   I think it's pretty clear that while noone will admit to this because of the fallout, everyone acknowledges it's going to happen, for good or ill.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

I get they're trying to deal with their problems, but they're going about it the wrong way. Do you think the US does it that way? I'd say the best way to do it is to copy the US since we're pretty much able to do it without thinking how do we do it. There's never any discussions about people not assimilating since it seems to just happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 03:20:15 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

I get they're trying to deal with their problems, but they're going about it the wrong way. Do you think the US does it that way? I'd say the best way to do it is to copy the US since we're pretty much able to do it without thinking how do we do it. There's never any discussions about people not assimilating since it seems to just happen.

Oh you mean taking immigrant children away from their parents and sending them to different internment camps with little record of who is who? (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a21724631/why-are-immigrant-children-separated-from-parents-border-donald-trump/)

Seriously smj, for the last two days you seem to be on a bender of emulating crass american stereotypes. Don't you think you have to be more careful before giving strong opinions about issues of which you have limited first hand info? Particularily throwing a Godwin while you're doing them? Particularily when you're setting your own country as an example, and your goverment was shown doing far worse just a couple of weeks ago?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 03:25:13 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

I get they're trying to deal with their problems, but they're going about it the wrong way. Do you think the US does it that way? I'd say the best way to do it is to copy the US since we're pretty much able to do it without thinking how do we do it. There's never any discussions about people not assimilating since it seems to just happen.

Quote

Once children turn 1, they will be required to attend daycare centers for at least 25 hours a week, where they will be taught about the Danish culture and language, including Christian holidays such as Christmas and Easter. If parents refuse to send their children, they could lose their welfare benefits.

Yeah those Nazi Danes, teaching the kids they're financially supporting the Danish language & holidays. How will Denmark ever recover, teaching kids in Denmark Danish

Regarding USA, there has been neverending debate over whether the USA should be multicultural or assimilative, and its exiting population is split cleanly in half over what the hell American values are. Couple that with Americans not caring about culture, White Americans stereotyped as holding shitty pop and starbucks as their cultural milestones, and the more significant marker of US cultural dominance of the world meaning migrants coming to the US are:
-likely from wealthy backgrounds
-were educated in the US
-proficient with English
-have the money needed to avoid economic segregation or crime
-meaning US migrants are Americans before they're Americans. No one in Chad is learning Danish. But they're learning English, watching American films & listening to American music while drinking American drinks. That America is the wealthiest country in the world with a whole lot of useful, cheap land available for migrants helps too, not least to say the population size matters. In short, it's rather cheeky to say Denmark's run afoul here when Americans will not allow for legal naturalization without a knowledge of US history, culture & language, while it demands all of its pupils to learn English in school. It is the basic fundamentals of a state to function, to not even say of the nation.

Denmark does a lot of things wrong. For example, they're Denmark. Yet this is just common sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 03, 2018, 03:27:23 pm

T’be fair to smj, those dudes are folk who crossed the border illegally (however ridiculous it is to criminalize crossing an imaginary line) and Trump is a bit of a racist. Main issue with that is some of these guys are asylum seekers.

Anyhow, the article says that one of the three criteria the government apparently looks at is if a community is more than half non-western immigrants. That is also a bit racist.

And then the parting comment in the article is the prime minister saying he doesn’t recognize some parts of his country, though it doesn’t have any context beyond “he said it in March”.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:37:39 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 03:20:15 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

I get they're trying to deal with their problems, but they're going about it the wrong way. Do you think the US does it that way? I'd say the best way to do it is to copy the US since we're pretty much able to do it without thinking how do we do it. There's never any discussions about people not assimilating since it seems to just happen.

Oh you mean taking immigrant children away from their parents and sending them to different internment camps with little record of who is who? (https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a21724631/why-are-immigrant-children-separated-from-parents-border-donald-trump/)

Seriously smj, for the last two days you seem to be on a bender of emulating crass american stereotypes. Don't you think you have to be more careful before giving strong opinions about issues of which you have limited first hand info? Particularily throwing a Godwin while you're doing them? Particularily when you're setting your own country as an example, and your goverment was shown doing far worse just a couple of weeks ago?

I'm not a Trump supporter btw, not clear if you know that or not. And I'm not trying to tell Europe what to do (which would be the sterotypical American), just give my opinion.

And throwing a godwin was going a bit too far there, I'd half considered it, but....

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 03:25:13 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

I get they're trying to deal with their problems, but they're going about it the wrong way. Do you think the US does it that way? I'd say the best way to do it is to copy the US since we're pretty much able to do it without thinking how do we do it. There's never any discussions about people not assimilating since it seems to just happen.

Quote

Once children turn 1, they will be required to attend daycare centers for at least 25 hours a week, where they will be taught about the Danish culture and language, including Christian holidays such as Christmas and Easter. If parents refuse to send their children, they could lose their welfare benefits.

Yeah those Nazi Danes, teaching the kids they're financially supporting the Danish language & holidays. How will Denmark ever recover, teaching kids in Denmark Danish

Regarding USA, there has been neverending debate over whether the USA should be multicultural or assimilative, and its exiting population is split cleanly in half over what the hell American values are. Couple that with Americans not caring about culture, White Americans stereotyped as holding shitty pop and starbucks as their cultural milestones, and the more significant marker of US cultural dominance of the world meaning migrants coming to the US are:
-likely from wealthy backgrounds
-were educated in the US
-proficient with English
-have the money needed to avoid economic segregation or crime
-meaning US migrants are Americans before they're Americans. No one in Chad is learning Danish. But they're learning English, watching American films & listening to American music while drinking American drinks. That America is the wealthiest country in the world with a whole lot of useful, cheap land available for migrants helps too, not least to say the population size matters. In short, it's rather cheeky to say Denmark's run afoul here when Americans will not allow for legal naturalization without a knowledge of US history, culture & language, while it demands all of its pupils to learn English in school. It is the basic fundamentals of a state to function, to not even say of the nation.

Denmark does a lot of things wrong. For example, they're Denmark. Yet this is just common sense.

You Brits are one to talk when it comes to naturalization too. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_the_United_Kingdom_test) The difference though is that these are kids we are talking about and they're being forced to attend school with the pretext of making them not assimilate any of their parents culture, which is totally different from simply attending a normal school.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 03:53:53 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:37:39 pm

You Brits are one to talk when it comes to naturalization too. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_the_United_Kingdom_test) The difference though is that these are kids we are talking about and they're being forced to attend school with the pretext of making them not assimilate any of their parents culture, which is totally different from simply attending a normal school.

I am confused? Apologies for miscommunicating, but I support naturalization, not oppose it. I certainly am one to talk about the UK's naturalization process, my Mother just completed it a year ago ;D
http://home.bt.com/news/news-extra/quiz-could-you-pass-a-uk-citizenship-test-11364233167703
Recommend you take the test. Impossible to get any wrong, except the trick question about the channel islands, where they are represented by the UK but are their own dudes. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know if this is unusual in America, but in every European nation, child education is mandatory for all children. Thus mandatory education for kids doesn't phase me in the slightest, what's more I have no idea where you get the notion that they won't inherit their parent's culture, these aren't boarding schools. What the Danes are doing is making sure you don't have teenagers living in Denmark their whole lives who can't speak, read or write Danish and can't pass secondary exams, barring them from higher education and advancement. That's seems like dumbo jumbo to me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 04:00:58 pm

I can see a problem with teaching Muslim children to celebrate Easter and Christmas, since both are Christian holidays and that steps on their family beliefs.

For a naturalisation course the only things I'd consider actually important is the language, basic social customs and gestures, and the basic everyday legal system which an immigrant child's parents may still be learning themselves. The holidays and religious customs of the largest theological group in the country seems completely irrelevant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 04:05:29 pm

Well, it certainly seems to imply that they don't want the kids to inherit some of their parents culture.

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 04:00:58 pm

I can see a problem with teaching Muslim children to celebrate Easter and Christmas, since both are Christian holidays and that steps on their family beliefs.

For a naturalisation course the only things I'd consider actually important is the language, basic social customs and gestures, and the basic everyday legal system which an immigrant child's parents may still be learning themselves. The holidays and religious customs of the largest theological group in the country seems completely irrelevant.

Yeah, the religion thing is the part of what I was getting at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 04:34:35 pm

Not allowing kids to have any of there parents culture is a terrible idea. There is a specific name for when that happens, dissonant assimilation. It is associated with basically every negative effect on both the child and parents you can think of. This is well known to people who study assimilation.

This reminds me of that massive book I found on the Denmark immigrant situation. Book as it very large scientific book. I wonder what it has to say about the specific issues in Denmark. I also wonder if any politician has bothered to read it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 03, 2018, 04:40:50 pm

Well, the Danish immigration minister recently told Muslims observing Ramadan to stay home so as not to cause accidents at work, without citing any statistics regarding the incidence of workplace accidents involving Muslims (or anyone) fasting, so I doubt it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 04:50:49 pm

It's not entirely clear that is actually their plan, but it certainly sounds like what they're aiming for.

I'm not against them teaching danish, it's the whole appearance of saying that the kids cannot do anything related to their parents culture.

LW does have a point that American culture is so dominant that immigrants coming in are often already partially 'Americanized', as it were.

Also, LW, I do support learning basic stuff (what would be considered 'basics' can be endlessly debated), I was just going 'hey, Britain does that stuff too' as far as history, etc go.

Quote from: hector13 on July 03, 2018, 04:40:50 pm

Well, the Danish immigration minister recently told Muslims observing Ramadan to stay home so as not to cause accidents at work, without citing any statistics regarding the incidence of workplace accidents involving Muslims (or anyone) fasting, so I doubt it.

On the face of it, the question is a legit concern, but if one really wanted to find the answers to that, there's a whole world of muslim majority regions and countries to look at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 05:26:59 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 04:00:58 pm

I can see a problem with teaching Muslim children to celebrate Easter and Christmas, since both are Christian holidays and that steps on their family beliefs.

...?
In the UK we teach Christian kids Muslim holidays, Danish Muslims learning Christian holidays will not compel them to holiday if they don't want to, it's ultimately up to the kid. Keeping children culturally ignorant of their country is not how you create a functional, communicative society, it's how you create two societies and trucks in Christmas markets

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 04:00:58 pm

For a naturalisation course the only things I'd consider actually important is the language, basic social customs and gestures, and the basic everyday legal system which an immigrant child's parents may still be learning themselves. The holidays and religious customs of the largest theological group in the country seems completely irrelevant.

If I wrote the criteria, it'd be:
1. Residency
2. Language
3. Essential customs instead of basic customs
4. Essential law
5. Essential history & politics
6. And a demonstration of basic knowledge of the country

#1 obviously highest priority, someone who has stayed in your country for any long length of time has shown they are attached to your country and aren't just passing through. #2, #3, #4 for pragmatic & civic reasons, #5 so they're a citizen and not a resident, who understands how the state works, why it's like that and how they can participate. #6 just proves that all the time they've spent in #1 hasn't been spent isolated. Neglecting religious customs & holidays of the largest theological groups is pure folly, the goal is to reduce cultural miscommunication not increase it. You confuse proselytizing with education; education cannot be a one-way street, all must at least crudely understand what others believe & why, and know that it's ok to believe differently. Especially since you can't treat old world religion as a passing demographic trend to be gone with the death of the last Christians, when the blasted faith has carved its influence into 2,000 years of custom, philosophy and governance which has shaped the nations of Europe, having outlived the localized death of the faith itself.

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 04:50:49 pm

.
I'm not against them teaching danish, it's the whole appearance of saying that the kids cannot do anything related to their parents culture.
LW does have a point that American culture is so dominant that immigrants coming in are often already partially 'Americanized', as it were.
Also, LW, I do support learning basic stuff (what would be considered 'basics' can be endlessly debated), I was just going 'hey, Britain does that stuff too' as far as history, etc go.

The kids will learn from their parents at home, the Danes are not invading the homespace, they're integrating the next generation into Danish society. The result is to foster syncretism, to which Americans pretending most Muslims and Christians in Europe don't already celebrate Christmas and Easter as national holidays and know fuck all about its religious connotations lol. Where I grew up, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus & Christian kids all celebrate Christmas together, giving each other gifts and all that. Trying to isolate Muslim kids from Christian kids is a step backwards from unity in favour of full retardation, and is something not even Muslim countries do. I can't believe that after all this time Western nations still can't figure out why they export more jihadists than Muslim nations when they pull off stricter rules for isolating Muslims from the general 'other' populace than sharia compliant nations. Come to Malaysia during Christmas, the country is ruled on all levels except urban morning food markets by Muslims and is majority Muslim, yet by Christmas you'll see the fake snow decked out in the tropical heat all over place. I seriously cannot understand the depths of the retardation of Western liberalism, that it says nationalism is bad, religious fundamentalism is bad, then it goes and creates nationalist fundamentalist enclaves inside their nations - whilst selectively preaching cosmopolitanism and cultural exchange to the rest. You see why armed bandit groups seek to exterminate you? It's not difficult to stop religious leaders from telling their faithful to kill infidels, topple the government, stone adulterers and behead those who leave Islam (https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/germany-radical-imam-abu-bilal-ismail-faces-charges-after-calls-destruction-zionist-jews-1489440). Smh tbh fam stop killing your countries, you're taking us all down with you

In regards to Britain, they don't do that, they were even worse. They spent a century going around the world teaching a fifth of it to be copies of Britain, then after the world learned to be British, the British told the world "no lol be urself u r bootiful the way u ar". Reminds me of the bloody hilarious/grueling scene in Viceroy's House, when the Indian head chef is told to make Indian cuisine instead of European cuisine, and the Indian head chef is bloody furious because he wasted half his life learning European cuisine only for the Brits to decide "authentic native culture" was superior. Right gits lmao. Then they arrive in Britain and the Brits are all "assimilate or gtfo" and so they do assimilate, only for the Brits to decide "lol whatevs fuck havin laws and borders and shit be urself," only to decide again "oh fuck we want borders again assimilate pls." Some consistency would make either policy much more productive to human happiness

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 05:38:33 pm

*Starts reading*

Issues with Denmark and immigration

1. Categorization of immigrants and decedents of immigrants
Effectively this issue is a typical one of not recognizing immigrants and children of immigrants as Danish and permanently marking them out as different. This has the effect of alienating them and not allowing them to be accepted and integrate.

2. False perceptions of cultural homogeneity
A general false idea of a historically homogeneous Denmark that did not exist. Denmark had until quite recently a very diverse population and experienced considerable immigration. In a general sense as well the formation of modern Denmark has progressed in such a way that the rejection and loss of foreign influence and possessions creating an internal focus is heavily associated in the minds of people with the social progress they achieved. The homogenization of Danish society historical is associated with urbanization in the 1960s.

3. Perceptions of immigrants beliefs being a threat to the welfare state and Danish values
Cultural homogony in Denmarks case is heavily linked to specific ideas and not social conformity. These core ideas are broadly, individual freedom, personal choice, and social engagement. They feel the immigrants do not share these values and perceive the functioning of their welfare state as being reliant on everyone having these values. As such Denmark feels very strongly that all immigrants must be integrated into its core values. They assume that said immigrants do not share their values and also that alternate values must be corrected to ‘proper’ values. As immigrants are otherwise perceived as a burden and a threat to the welfare state by the Danish.

4. Historic perceptions of immigrants
More recent immigration of so called guest workers shaped the perceptions of how immigrates were ‘supposed’ to act. That is grateful to Denmark but not treated with equal status. Also assumed to be temporary. Later they were cast as unemployed and living in isolated ghettos. The causes of this is the treatment of the immigrants by Denmark was ignored. This then began that assumption of them needing to be properly brought into ‘Danish values’ which they were assumed to lack. So the public has an image of a immigrants as having great differences from the ideal Danish person which later grows into people assuming irreconcilable differences. Focus is therefore all on the immigrants and not Danish society itself as the problem.

5. Xenophobia
Obviously all this has lead to lots of xenophobia and racism and a rather hostile attitude towards immigrants. Even Danish researchers have focused on trying to find the reason for non-integration in issues with the immigrants differences. So they have an entrenched scholarly bias against immigrants to go with the public bias.



So there is the heart of the issue. Looks pretty obvious to me that the issue is with Denmarks whole approach and perception of immigrants being basically exactly the opposite of what it should be.

I too can wall of text. Your in my field now.

And that was just a summery of 18 pages out of over 200.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 03, 2018, 05:42:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

Do you understand that what made that bad is that European colonists went to other places (or persecuted nations native to within their own borders) and then said "your nation isn't good, you have to be English/Spanish/French/Russian now", by force of arms, regardless of what the people of those nations wanted?l

Do you see how that was completely different situation from Denmark wanting to make sure that people who has chosen to immigrate to their country, completely voluntary, actually integrate into their nation?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 05:47:18 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 05:38:33 pm

So there is the heart of the issue. Looks pretty obvious to me that the issue is with Denmarks whole approach and perception of immigrants being basically exactly the opposite of what it should be.

Counterpoint: The existence of Sweden

Quote from: scriver on July 03, 2018, 05:42:44 pm

Do you understand that what made that bad is that European colonists went to other places (or persecuted nations native to within their own borders) and then said "your nation isn't good, you have to be English/Spanish/French/Russian now", by force of arms, regardless of what the people of those nations wanted?l
Do you see how that was completely different situation from Denmark wanting to make sure that people who has chosen to immigrate to their country, completely voluntary, actually integrate into their nation?

In the case of Spain, the Spanish did not enforce the teaching of language by force of arms, the teaching of Spanish was conducted by the Catholic church which had a complicated relationship with the Spanish crown (with the Catholic church being split between supporting the Spanish encomienda or going into outright revolt against Spanish authority in defence of the natives). British and French did not do so by force of arms either, using instead sophisticated forms of control & incentive, like prestige and concepts of Westernization = success to convince native elites that Western education was the way forwards to modernity & should be spread to their people. Cultural imperialism vs imperialism, the former is considerably more tricksy, because the absence of bayonets does little to affect its power. In the case of Russia they just did as the Mongols & Communists did. Can't have heritage if everything is deleted

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 05:52:49 pm

@LW: Even so, what Denmark is trying to do doesn't deal with those there and now (unless you want to relitigate the 'deport everybody! Including the sweet Algerian grandmas!' BS).

Quote from: scriver on July 03, 2018, 05:42:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 03:06:24 pm

Uh, cultural indoctrination Denmark? (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children-immigrant-muslim-danish-ghetto) Makes me think of some of the worst practices that Westerners had with indengenous peoples. There may also be undertones of Nazi in there, but in general, it just has the undertones of how Europeans have treated places that they've colonized and also places with a persecuted minority.

Do you understand that what made that bad is that European colonists went to other places (or persecuted nations native to within their own borders) and then said "your nation isn't good, you have to be English/Spanish/French/Russian now", by force of arms, regardless of what the people of those nations wanted?l

Do you see how that was completely different situation from Denmark wanting to make sure that people who has chosen to immigrate to their country, completely voluntary, actually integrate into their nation?

I get that they're different situations, it's the whole methodology that I'm calling out.

Maybe instead of abandoning those who are already there and trying to work with the next generation, they (also) help the adults already there?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:00:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 05:47:18 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 05:38:33 pm

So there is the heart of the issue. Looks pretty obvious to me that the issue is with Denmarks whole approach and perception of immigrants being basically exactly the opposite of what it should be.

Counterpoint: The existence of Sweden

When I say opposite that is not what I mean. Also bad memes are bad.

Have I managed to wall of text a LW discussion and get a single line in response? Are you sure your the real LW?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 06:20:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 05:52:49 pm

@LW: Even so, what Denmark is trying to do doesn't deal with those there and now (unless you want to relitigate the 'deport everybody! Including the sweet Algerian grandmas!' BS).

Wot? I'm not saying send everyone to an Aussie prison colony. I'm saying giving kids the education they need to advance in education, career prospects and societal advancement will make the kids happy. The effects of that do not happen in isolation, families do this thing where they communicate with one another - a parent is not likely to look down on a society their kid is rising in, getting Uni placements, high-tier technical and leadership jobs e.t.c..

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 05:52:49 pm

Maybe instead of abandoning those who are already there and trying to work with the next generation, they (also) help the adults already there?

Denmark's got some of the greatest social welfare and state institutions in the world, what barriers remain are geographical, ethnic, cultural, religious and economic. Geography cannot really be changed, if your country is a bunch of small islands people cannot often literally afford the luxury of choosing where to live, building divides between those who are nationally/internationally mobile and those who are not. Ethnic divides can only be worked upon in the timescale of civilizations; Eastern Europeans are treated as Western Europeans with exotic surnames at the second generation by white Europeans, but non-white lineages will always be treated as exotic, alien, foreign until such time as the lineage is assimilated or Europeans stop such subconscious and conscious patterns of racism. Culture & religion is pretty simple as long as you have peace, communication and time on your hands. Economic is much more easily done with the next generation than the first, since teaching someone Danish, science, maths & then teaching them from secondary to University level takes time. Of the few workers who are capable of doing 20 years of education in 3, you then have to get them into lucrative Danish careers with no work experience.

Teaching kids all of this stuff & getting them the experience is all stuff the Danes have been doing for ages, and they're good at it. Thus it clearly makes the most sense to always focus on the future where the investment yields the most dramatic changes than the present, where it already is gone

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:00:07 pm

When I say opposite that is not what I mean. Also bad memes are bad.

Have I managed to wall of text a LW discussion and get a single line in response? Are you sure your the real LW?

What more is there to say? The existence of historical diaspora is not the same as making your people into a minority, nor does perception / expectations of migrants eliminate the agency of migrants. At the end of the day, all individuals choose whether they move with or move contrary to the various Western Factions' notions of not being a dickhead to thy neighbour. Be as the Swede and welcome the world into your heart; be surprised not when the world sells it and moves into the free real estate in your head

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:25:33 pm

Quote

making your people into a minority

Total strawman, seriously this sort of hyperbole is not helpful.

Quote

perception / expectations of migrants eliminate the agency of migrants

It is a massive factor in why migrants are in the situation they are in. also it is not the only factor mentioned.

Quote

move with or move contrary

The issue is that they are automatically assumed to be contrary.

Quote

Swede

Still a meme.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 06:32:41 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:25:33 pm

Total strawman, seriously this sort of hyperbole is not helpful.

It's called London, not strawman

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:25:33 pm

It is a massive factor in why migrants are in the situation they are in. also it is not the only factor mentioned.

It's a severe inflation of how important European opinion actually is to migrants who don't live with Europeans

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:25:33 pm

The issue is that they are automatically assumed to be contrary.

Assume? The world does not think the same

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:25:33 pm

Still a meme.

Sweden is literally a meme state at this point

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 06:41:23 pm

You know, people here have zeroed on the stuff about immigrants, I'm guessing because it's where the onus of that effort is focused, but what actually drew my attention are the guettos themselves. My overall impression is that when a collective starts to marginalize and locks down on a guetto/camp/whatnot... that's when the troubles actually start. The problem is not as much immigrants and their culture, in my opinion, as the marginalization of said immigrants (the one that is inflicted by their circumstances... and the one that is self inflicted. That happens too).

You don't even need the marginalized people to be immigrants for this to cause trouble (I'm going to avoid opening the can of worms that would be naming which group or groups have this happen to them in Europe). It's a very difficult problem to tackle, and I don't know what's the right answer. I do feel that integrating people in the guetto in non marginalized neighbourhoods is a well-meant approach... but regrettably frictions can arise. Maybe it would be better to invest into a marginal-zone rehabilitation-education approach? I don't know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 06:48:28 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 06:41:23 pm

You know, people here have zeroed on the stuff about immigrants, I'm guessing because it's where the onus of that effort is focused, but what actually drew my attention are the guettos themselves. My overall impression is that when a collective starts to marginalize and locks down on a guetto/camp/whatnot... that's when the troubles actually start. The problem is not as much immigrants and their culture, in my opinion, as the marginalization of said immigrants (the one that is inflicted by their circumstances... and the one that is self inflicted. That happens too).

You don't even need the marginalized people to be immigrants for this to cause trouble (I'm going to avoid opening the can of worms that would be naming which group or groups have this happen to them in Europe). It's a very difficult problem to tackle, and I don't know what's the right answer. I do feel that integrating people in the guetto in non marginalized neighbourhoods is a well-meant approach... but regrettably frictions can arise. Maybe it would be better to invest into a marginal-zone rehabilitation-education approach? I don't know.

Eliminating the ghettoes doesn't solve the higher tiers of needs required to satisfy deep quality of life in the Western world. Migrants & their descendants who live in areas with good education, healthcare, jobs and good policing will still be unfulfilled if social mobility is retarded or obstructed for them. Hence why getting rid of ghetto areas and run down council estates is a start, but insufficient for running a just and prosperous migrantified world. Social mobility, in education, careers & social standing are all vital. One generation an unskilled labourer, the next a plumber, the next a professor, the next a civil director e.t.c., the promise of hard work translating into advancement is imo vital to getting different groups of people to become one people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:50:51 pm

LW, is you entire strategy to repeat misleading right wing talking points?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 06:56:09 pm

I checked back at the article and it doesn't sound like they're trying to lock down on 'ghettos' in the sense of isolating them from the rest of society, but they are talking about razing some neghborhoods to the ground. I know little of what these 'ghettos' actually look like, but I doubt most, or any of them look like shanty slums and demolising an entire section of a city or town sounds like a very poor way of dealing with the population they're trying to deal with.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 06:48:28 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 03, 2018, 06:41:23 pm

You know, people here have zeroed on the stuff about immigrants, I'm guessing because it's where the onus of that effort is focused, but what actually drew my attention are the guettos themselves. My overall impression is that when a collective starts to marginalize and locks down on a guetto/camp/whatnot... that's when the troubles actually start. The problem is not as much immigrants and their culture, in my opinion, as the marginalization of said immigrants (the one that is inflicted by their circumstances... and the one that is self inflicted. That happens too).

You don't even need the marginalized people to be immigrants for this to cause trouble (I'm going to avoid opening the can of worms that would be naming which group or groups have this happen to them in Europe). It's a very difficult problem to tackle, and I don't know what's the right answer. I do feel that integrating people in the guetto in non marginalized neighbourhoods is a well-meant approach... but regrettably frictions can arise. Maybe it would be better to invest into a marginal-zone rehabilitation-education approach? I don't know.

Eliminating the ghettoes doesn't solve the higher tiers of needs required to satisfy deep quality of life in the Western world. Migrants & their descendants who live in areas with good education, healthcare, jobs and good policing will still be unfulfilled if social mobility is retarded or obstructed for them. Hence why getting rid of ghetto areas and run down council estates is a start, but insufficient for running a just and prosperous migrantified world. Social mobility, in education, careers & social standing are all vital. One generation an unskilled labourer, the next a plumber, the next a professor, the next a civil director e.t.c., the promise of hard work translating into advancement is imo vital to getting different groups of people to become one people

If those areas look as decrept as abandoned cities with nomads wandering around, then yeah, I'd get removing them, but otherwise it makes no sense and you're just pushing those people into another part of the country (with an obvious message of 'GET OUT! WE DON"T WANT YOU!' to make them leave the country). It'd be a lot easier and less expensive to deal with the problem in situ.

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:50:51 pm

LW, is you entire strategy to repeat misleading right wing talking points?

His latest post doesn't sound like one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:58:10 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 06:56:09 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:50:51 pm

LW, is you entire strategy to repeat misleading right wing talking points?

His latest post doesn't sound like one.

The one before that one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 07:00:24 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:50:51 pm

LW, is you entire strategy to repeat misleading right wing talking points?

?
What do you mean by this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 07:06:54 pm

Thread shunt attempt

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 06:35:57 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 06:34:08 pm

NATO would be a good template to work with though since it already has to deal with exactly the same problems that an unified EU military would have.

Except the whole seizing control of foreign militaries thing

Maybe they could pledge a portion of their own forces in a time of need? Though I guess that sounds too much like levies or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 07:15:35 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 07:06:54 pm

Maybe they could pledge a portion of their own forces in a time of need? Though I guess that sounds too much like levies or something.

Nah, that'd be the worst of all worlds. NATO status quo or EU army are the best options for the EU. If they do the latter my only concern would be that they do so fairly: Nothing would depress my spirits further than to see wealthy Euro nations paying in equipment while poorer Euro nations pay in blood to engage in Euro military operations. Keep the manpower commitments fair, live up to the Eurovalues.

Oh, and I suppose what the EU did with France's nuclear arsenal would also be a concern. I don't think the EU would consider drastically expanding its own nuclear arsenal though, even with Russia being belligerent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 07:36:16 pm

It was just an idea off the top of my head and it sounds too much like levies to me anyway. In the EUs current state, an EU army would probably be some system that hasn't been tried in history or I have no idea.

In it's current state, before federalization, a NATO type deal seems like it'd work best.

Spain is, I believe, the most highly decentralized nation with a federation/confederation style setup and they have a national army, so, there's probably a transition point somewhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 07:43:15 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2018, 07:00:24 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 06:50:51 pm

LW, is you entire strategy to repeat misleading right wing talking points?

?
What do you mean by this

I mean that you constantly repeat various things that tend to be basically right wing scaremongering.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 07:49:05 pm

The main problem I would have with an EU wide centrally controlled army is that armies tend to have better recruitment among certain demographics, and those demographics vary by region. Somewhere is going to bleed more just because it's people view military service as more desirable than somewhere else does and that's going to lead to resentment down the line.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 03, 2018, 07:59:25 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 07:49:05 pm

The main problem I would have with an EU wide centrally controlled army is that armies tend to have better recruitment among certain demographics, and those demographics vary by region. Somewhere is going to bleed more just because it's people view military service as more desirable than somewhere else does and that's going to lead to resentment down the line.

Is there such resentment in the US among the states?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 03, 2018, 08:03:30 pm

There is some, actually - the poorer and rural states source more military personnel, and there's all the tension you'd expect regarding that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 03, 2018, 08:09:22 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on July 03, 2018, 08:03:30 pm

There is some, actually - the poorer and rural states source more military personnel, and there's all the tension you'd expect regarding that.

I don't know what I should expect, though. What form do these tensions take? Culturally, politically, economically? Some other -ly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 08:16:41 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 07:49:05 pm

The main problem I would have with an EU wide centrally controlled army is that armies tend to have better recruitment among certain demographics, and those demographics vary by region. Somewhere is going to bleed more just because it's people view military service as more desirable than somewhere else does and that's going to lead to resentment down the line.

Would it be better or worse than any particular national army in Europe currently?

Quote from: Il Palazzo on July 03, 2018, 07:59:25 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 07:49:05 pm

The main problem I would have with an EU wide centrally controlled army is that armies tend to have better recruitment among certain demographics, and those demographics vary by region. Somewhere is going to bleed more just because it's people view military service as more desirable than somewhere else does and that's going to lead to resentment down the line.

Is there such resentment in the US among the states?

In the context of poor people getting drafted more than rich people, there can be, but in the context of people from x state not bleeding as much as y state, not that I know of. Sure, there can be a higher concentration from more populous states, but it's pretty evenly spread out.

I don't know if any such resentment ever existed after the Revolutionary War (there were certainly some tensions between colonies in the early days).

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on July 03, 2018, 08:03:30 pm

There is some, actually - the poorer and rural states source more military personnel, and there's all the tension you'd expect regarding that.

Yeah theres that, but I imagine every country on Earth has similar tensions, so, an EU army would still be dealing with things that militaries have always dealt with.

So, unless the demographics Grim Portent is talking aren't rural and/or poor people, I'm not sure an EU wide army would have a problem with it if the recruitment is done relatively evenly among it's members. There would of course, be disparities between countries with small populations vs large populations, so, some disparity would be unavoidable.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on July 03, 2018, 08:09:22 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on July 03, 2018, 08:03:30 pm

There is some, actually - the poorer and rural states source more military personnel, and there's all the tension you'd expect regarding that.

I don't know what I should expect, though. What form do these tensions take? Culturally, politically, economically? Some other -ly?

It's more along political lines I think, but if you want real tension, you'd have to look back to Vietnam. Since it's a volunteer military, not draft, I'm not really aware of any tensions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 03, 2018, 08:18:05 pm

Joining the military is often seen as the economic "out" for people in rural areas. While I'm sure the military would be right-wing anyway, it's very right-wing and I think the limited selection has something to do with it. There's sort of an unspoken assumption that "conservatives fight for America, liberals go to college" which causes all manner of alienation and bad sentiment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 08:26:27 pm

Yeah that's what I was thinking of, mainly political along the rural/urban divide, which also happens to be the political divide.

Institute the draft though and everybody gets angry.

And yeah, while the military tries its hardest to be apolitical, military politics definetly trend right wing.

I don't know if Grim Portent was referring to poor/rural people by demographics or something else, but if he meant different population sizes between different countries, that shouldn't be a problem if they're evenly spread out.

The one place where accusations of favoritism might occur wouldn't be in the lower ranks, it'd be the upper echelons. Though I can see where accusations of <people from x country> don't bleed enough or bleed too much come from if an EU military isn't viewed as completely unified or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 08:33:04 pm

There are also substantial recruitment from poor minorities. In the US that most often means African Americas and Hispanics. I think generally minorities have high representation. You might see similar things in EU armies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 08:49:15 pm

Which, again, is something that every nation in history has done or has to deal with. So, I don't see it as a disqualifying factor, just something it and the EU consituent nations have to deal with.

More aggrivating before full EU federalization would be the appearance of favoritism from a particular nation(s) or region, or maybe a general in a region who isn't from that region or something. Then again, NATO?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 08:52:02 pm

My primary concern was the different economic strengths of different countries in the EU. If joining the EU army was a reliable and decent paycheck that's going to be more appealing to someone from a poorer country with a mediocre wellfare system than it is to someone from a wealthier nation with a decent wellfare system.

Within countries that's not usually too much of an issue by itself except on ethical/moral grounds because major cultural divides are usually on the way out due to homogenisation of the citizenry, between countries who have long histories of animosity that's only relatively recently buried in some cases it could lead to international and ethnic resentment as large groups feel exploited by an outgroup.

That said, the actual enlistment trends of each EU nation are probably quite variable, I expect some countries have more working class people in their armies, others more middle class and I have no idea how things would shake out over 20 or 30 years in practice. Some countries are also still more proud of military service than others and more likely to serve on patriotic grounds. Depends on how they advertise and incentivise military service.


To clarify a bit more, I'd not be bothered by the EU army being almost entirely composed of people from some of the member nations and barely featuring people from others, military service is fundamentally a choice that different groups are going to make in different amounts, but I'd be concerned it would be somewhat rigged to wind up that way, or even if not rigged that it would be percieved as rigged after a few military setbacks result in people dying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 03, 2018, 09:08:25 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 08:52:02 pm

My primary concern was the different economic strengths of different countries in the EU. If joining the EU army was a reliable and decent paycheck that's going to be more appealing to someone from a poorer country with a mediocre wellfare system than it is to someone from a wealthier nation with a decent wellfare system.

There are some states which are pretty poor, but I don't think theres any animosity over that. Then again, the wealth disparities between EU countries would be greater than the richest US state and the poorest US state.

Quote

Within countries that's not usually too much of an issue by itself except on ethical/moral grounds because major cultural divides are usually on the way out due to homogenisation of the citizenry, between countries who have long histories of animosity that's only relatively recently buried in some cases it could lead to international and ethnic resentment as large groups feel exploited by an outgroup.

The only ones I'd be worried about going at each others throats atm are the Balkan states. Though otherwise you do have a point about international and ethnic resentment if there is perception of being exploited, and you don't have to look very far back in the past to see that (referring to Austria-Hungary and their slavic subjects).

Quote

That said, the actual enlistment trends of each EU nation are probably quite variable, I expect some countries have more working class people in their armies, others more middle class and I have no idea how things would shake out over 20 or 30 years in practice. Some countries are also still more proud of military service than others and more likely to serve on patriotic grounds. Depends on how they advertise and incentivise military service.


To clarify a bit more, I'd not be bothered by the EU army being almost entirely composed of people from some of the member nations and barely featuring people from others, military service is fundamentally a choice that different groups are going to make in different amounts, but I'd be concerned it would be somewhat rigged to wind up that way, or even if not rigged that it would be percieved as rigged after a few military setbacks result in people dying.

Yeah, some disparity is going to be unavoidable just due to population differences.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 07:12:44 am

Official Leave campaign found to have broken electoral law (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44704561).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 10:15:32 am

So, what does that mean exactly for Brexit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on July 04, 2018, 11:02:36 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 08:33:04 pm

There are also substantial recruitment from poor minorities. In the US that most often means African Americas and Hispanics. I think generally minorities have high representation. You might see similar things in EU armies.

The interesting thing is that in the UK, racial minorities are under-represented (https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2009/mar/01/military-race) compared to the general population, to the extent that they want to boost attractiveness of service to minorities in order to reach diversity quotas.

 The reasons that America veers the other way could relate to the history - there was no black slavery era in England anything like that in the USA, and the UK has much more of a safety net for the poor compared to America. USA has a fairly large pool of poor black labor who've traditionally done the shittiest jobs, so sending them off to war would be a predictable outcome of that. If anyone fits that role in English history, it's Scots and Irish, not blacks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 11:21:07 am

Quote from: Reelya on July 04, 2018, 11:02:36 am

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 08:33:04 pm

There are also substantial recruitment from poor minorities. In the US that most often means African Americas and Hispanics. I think generally minorities have high representation. You might see similar things in EU armies.

The interesting thing is that in the UK, racial minorities are under-represented (https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2009/mar/01/military-race) compared to the general population, to the extent that they want to boost attractiveness of service to minorities in order to reach diversity quotas.

 The reasons that America veers the other way could relate to the history - there was no black slavery era in England anything like that in the USA, and the UK has much more of a safety net for the poor compared to America. USA has a fairly large pool of poor minority and immigrant labor who've traditionally done the shittiest jobs, so sending them off to war would be a predictable outcome of that. If anyone fits that role in English history, it's Scots and Irish, not blacks.

FIFY since it's not just blacks.

Anyways, a century ago Britain would have had their colonial units which would inflate the number of minorities more. Though yeah, pre-colonial era, it'd have been the British poor, Irish, Welsh, and Scots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 01:09:07 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 10:15:32 am

So, what does that mean exactly for Brexit?

Doesn’t mean nuffin’, just another example of how much lying the Leave side had to do to get their way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 04, 2018, 03:53:30 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on July 03, 2018, 07:43:15 pm

I mean that you constantly repeat various things that tend to be basically right wing scaremongering.

Let me die on shibboleths where reality falls on deaf ears

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 03, 2018, 07:49:05 pm

The main problem I would have with an EU wide centrally controlled army is that armies tend to have better recruitment among certain demographics, and those demographics vary by region. Somewhere is going to bleed more just because it's people view military service as more desirable than somewhere else does and that's going to lead to resentment down the line.

You can always assess what factors incentivize those certain demographics though and adjust accordingly

Quote from: Reelya on July 04, 2018, 11:02:36 am

The interesting thing is that in the UK, racial minorities are under-represented (https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2009/mar/01/military-race) compared to the general population, to the extent that they want to boost attractiveness of service to minorities in order to reach diversity quotas.

The reasons that America veers the other way could relate to the history - there was no black slavery era in England anything like that in the USA, and the UK has much more of a safety net for the poor compared to America. USA has a fairly large pool of poor black labor who've traditionally done the shittiest jobs, so sending them off to war would be a predictable outcome of that. If anyone fits that role in English history, it's Scots and Irish, not blacks.

If anyone fits that role in English history, it's English, but that's not the full picture either.

For starters what qualifies as a shitty job in Britain changes over history, perfect example being the Royal Marines. Time ago, the Royal Marines were seen as an ok service equally as gruelling as the rest, but it was seen as a dead end-job with almost no chance of progressing beyond a certain point. Couldn't be more different from the prestige the RM has today, where it's seen as one of the best in the world _{until the government cuts their operational budget.}

The other thing to consider is that in British history, there was no conscription until the world wars, which resulted in the British Army and Royal Navy having different recruitment patterns from say France or America. For the army, the majority of recruits would've come from poor young Englishmen (this is around the time when the UK's agricultural revolution causes a severely drastic baby boom), while the officers would've come from the upper class until significant reforms in the late 19th century. The Royal Navy was particularly odd, because they couldn't conscript landsmen, so had to either get skilled sailors from recruitment or press-ganging, which leads to the rather odd case in history wherein one country's armed forces were conscripting another country's men. Good example would be Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar, which was crewed by 441 English, 145 Irish, Scots & Welsh, 6 folk from the smaller British islands, 21 Americans, 36 Europeans, 9 West-Indians, 2 Indians, 1 Brazilian & 1 West African - in the early 19th century.

One of the chief recruitment strategies to build up the Army & Navy was the cultural aspect, in particular the notion of pride; loadsa young men enlisting out of pride to win glory by valour, especially after aristocratic traditions are fielded out in favour of meritocratic ones. Yet to this day there's still a lot of talk about how the UK's volunteer army fucked the UK up considerably in the long run, because the moment modern warfare is invented, it meant the UK lost its bravest and most dutiful men in the trenches for nothing.

But that's still not the full story either, because that's just the UK. There's a funny historical cartoon from WWII after the French surrendered and the UK was facing Germany, Italy & Japan alone, and it features two Tommies standing on the shore of the channel. One goes "guess we're on our own," while the other goes "yeah it's just you, me and 1.5 billion of us." Wherever the British Empire went it recruited from the locals, and even recruited from the locals who weren't part of the Empire; millions of soldiers, sailors & support staff came from the Americas, Caribbean, West, South & East Africa, Arabia, India, Malaysia and China. For the most part in the Army, they worked in their own national regiments, and stopped working for the UK after their home nations got independence. Instances of ethnic minorities integrated within the Royal Navy is common throughout UK history, but like the Colonial Army units there were racial barriers to promotion & gallantry awards that took two world wars to knock down, which all explains the disconnect between the historical and contemporary forces & diversity.

Currently in the UK the Armed Forces have high prestige, however there is a major barrier in that the Army in particular is looked down upon as unintellectual (which is a major issue for a professional Western fighting force), and is also not that comparable compared to say the USA - because the USA has to continually cycle through a million men whereas the UK maintains a much smaller army of tens of thousands of men. The volume of men needed means the recruitment pressures the USA and UK will face will be different, and as such the UK doesn't really have the issue of a stratified army caused by force of circumstance (although I have heard that the Armed Forces experience a lot of mental health cases caused by people enlisting in order to escape personal circumstances). The problems are altogether more to do with retention - recruiting in the UK is difficult, but keeping volunteers in the force is something else. I've heard harrowing shit about 50% of Naval Officers leaving for the private sector once their mandatory period of service was up, or of the Army losing tens of thousands of men to quitting, disciplinary or medical discharge in a year. Bless them for trying, but good luck trying to appeal to people who have no roots in the pot when you can't even convince the people you have to stay :/

Quote from: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 01:09:07 pm

Doesn’t mean nuffin’, just another example of how much lying the Leave side had to do to get their way.

I'm not bothered since the Remain side had David Cameron and Osborne using taxpayer money to outspend their own legal limits. They're getting tagged for a potential £600k overspend while Cameron spent £9,000,000 on just two days of campaigning, which is more than Leave was allowed for the entire year and a half of campaigning. Right cheeky

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 04:13:14 pm

When did they do this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 04, 2018, 04:21:57 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 04:13:14 pm

When did they do this?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/06/cameron-to-push-case-remain-eu-with-9m-taxpayer-funded-publicity-blitz
April 2016
I was right livid when it happened

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 04:32:38 pm

Don't know why the agency isn't calling out the Remain side for the same sort of stuff as it sounds like there was bullshit on both sides. Politics I suppose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 04, 2018, 04:51:22 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 04:32:38 pm

Don't know why the agency isn't calling out the Remain side for the same sort of stuff as it sounds like there was bullshit on both sides. Politics I suppose.

Well, the Remain thing was really fishy, but technically legal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 04, 2018, 05:02:20 pm

It was probably ‘cause it was “officially” a government information campaign, despite the title quite clearly stating the government’s position as being “pls stay”.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 05:09:26 pm

There's a new twist in the whole Novichok agent (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44719639) on the ex-spy back in March (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/395532-uk-couple-poisoned-by-same-nerve-agent-used-on-russian-spy-report). A couple somehow came into contact with the agent, but authorities haven't figured out yet if it's the same batch. I've also heard something about the house that they were in, was newly rented or something, but that hasn't been confirmed yet seemingly. Not much information right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 05, 2018, 09:03:12 am

M & M to meet to discuss post Brex relations and determine them by Oct (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44719576)
May also to drag her cabinet by the ears to her countryside HQ in a last ditch effort to get the gov on the same page

*EDIT
Russian twitterblyats hacked my election: The sequel: Investigation alleges comrade Corbachev was backed by the USSR's finest algorithms to influence Brit election (http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-tried-to-swing-the-uk-election-for-corbyn-investigation-claims-2018-4)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 05, 2018, 10:19:24 am

Shoulda added 'electric boogaloo' in there, for you know what reasons.

Wasn't Corbyn a remainer though? Bit surprised they tried to help him since it doesn't really help Russia since Russia would rather Britain exit the EU than remain. Other than Corbyn being left wing or just a desire to inject chaos, it's not clear to me what their general aim would have been.

In any case, it just shows that they'll try to in 2018 and they'll DEFINETLY do it in 2020.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 05, 2018, 10:21:16 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 05, 2018, 10:19:24 am

Shoulda added 'electric boogaloo' in there, for you know what reasons.

Wasn't Corbyn a remainer though? Bit surprised they tried to help him since it doesn't really help Russia since Russia would rather Britain exit the EU than remain. Other than Corbyn being left wing or just a desire to inject chaos, it's not clear to me what their general aim would have been.

Corbyn was a lukewarm remainer, and had some Eurosceptic position in the past. He does have a strong anti-imperialism streak of the "Anyone against the US is good" type.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 05, 2018, 11:39:11 am

For what I've reading Corbyn is ambiguously pro brexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 05, 2018, 11:49:38 am

(this is where I repeat my assertion that one of the easiest way to tell how far a European social democrat/labour politician has been corrupted by neo-liberalism is how much in favour of the EU they are)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 05, 2018, 11:58:11 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 05, 2018, 10:19:24 am

Shoulda added 'electric boogaloo' in there, for you know what reasons.

Wasn't Corbyn a remainer though? Bit surprised they tried to help him since it doesn't really help Russia since Russia would rather Britain exit the EU than remain. Other than Corbyn being left wing or just a desire to inject chaos, it's not clear to me what their general aim would have been.

In any case, it just shows that they'll try to in 2018 and they'll DEFINETLY do it in 2020.

Corbyn was a tactical Remainer, in the sense that he despised the EU as a Thatcherite neoliberal Imperial project of European world supremacy, but believed the institutional structure was useful as UK socialists could work with their partners in Europe to coordinate European socialism for the whole continent. Hence why he didn't give a/f when vote leave won, since he could still work with European socialists, while he didn't need to be in the EU to make the USSK. Russia likes him because he's also NATO-sceptic and wants to defund the British military, greatly reducing Russia's external security threats in Europe. This is made all the worse after an anonymous British general was reported by the press as saying he'd deal with Corbyn if he became Prime Minister, to which Corbyn wanted to know which general basically threatened a coup. The Ministry of Defence replied rather wryly that they didn't know who said it, and are 100% covering for the general. This makes Corbyn the go-to guy for Russia to support, even if Corbyn is rather ambivalent about his popularity in Moscow.

tl;dr
all according to kremlinaku

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on July 05, 2018, 01:10:45 pm

The gay frogs are at it again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2018, 03:51:33 am

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/theresa-secures-backing-cabinet-soft-brexit-180707060411962.html
Oh boy, Theresa May's only gone and done it now. Her Brexit plan ensures the UK de facto continues to be under the authority of the European Union. Under her plan, the UK would become a new EU customs region, wherein we would be able to freely regulate our own agricultural or industrial products to EU standards, nor negotiate any trade deals with non-European nations regarding such products. The UK would pay the cost of running the EU's tariff collection for EU-bound goods passing through the UK, while passing the revenue to the EU. No provisions for the services industry are sought, except that the financial sector will not be subjected to EU regulations, in a move which should clearly highlight May's priorities. While under her plan the UK would be "independent" from the European Court of Justice, being able to freely reject EU regulations placed upon us, however it would be accepted as standard that we accept whatever EU regulations are passed in the EU while there would be unnamed "consequences" if we did not integrate these regulations into UK law. The only thing I liked was that we'd withdraw from the EU Fishery commons, never too late for damage control.

tl;dr
Theresa May's plan keeps the UK outside of the EU market, but within the EU customs union. It will remain subjected to EU rulings upon consequence of some penalty. It will not be able to make trade deals with the rest of the world if such deals involve the importing of agricultural or industrial goods, i.e., everything that's not pharmaceuticals, stamps or intellectual property. EU response was to ask European leaders not to comment on the proposals, EU commissioners seem to like the deal. Boris Johnson backed off after May told him if he quit he wouldn't be able to use his staff car to get home to London, 40 miles away from May's mansion, so our last hope is that once Boris Johnson gets home and has some tea, he resigns and May's marginal majority disappears, forcing a vote of no confidence if she doesn't deliver Brexit in all but name. If not, then all future elections will see politicians arguing over leaving the planned UK-EU customs area

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2018, 04:39:56 am

Have you read the statement?  I think the more likely problem is that it wont pass the EU comission

Quote

The   UK   and   the   EU   would   maintain   a common   rulebook   for   all   goods   including   agri-food,   with   
the   UK   making   an   upfront   choice   to   commit   by   treaty   to   ongoing   harmonisation   with   EU   rules   
on   goods,   covering   only    those   necessary    to   provide    for   frictionless    trade   at    the   border. These   
rules   are   relatively   stable,   and   supported   by   a   large   share   of   our   manufacturing   businesses.   The   
UK   would   of   course   continue    to   play   a   strong    role   in   shaping    the   international   standards    that   
underpin    them,   and   Parliament   would   have   oversight   of   the   incorporation of    these    rules into   
the   UK’s   legal   order – with   the   ability   to   choose   not   to   do   so,   recognising   that   this   would   have   
consequences.   We   would   strike different arrangements for   services,   where   it   is   in   our   interests   
to    have    regulatory    flexibility,    recognising the    UK    and    the    EU    will    not    have    current    levels    of
access   to   each   other’s   markets

This wont prove a problem in itself but it's no great base for any deal either. Things will stay the same unless they change is a tautology not a commitment :p

Quote

. We    therefore    agreed    to    a    more    developed    and    comprehensive    proposal    for    the    economic   
partnership.   At   the   core   of   this   proposal   is   the   establishment   by   the   UK   and   the   EU   of   a   free   trade   area   
for   goods.   This   would   avoid   friction   at   the   border,   protect   jobs   and   livelihoods,   and   ensure   both   sides   
meet   their   commitments   to   Northern   Ireland   and   Ireland   through   the   overall   future   relationship.      

I think this one is trying to fudge SM for goods.  It wont fly without ECJ for certain, and I dont think the 27 are in a position to co promise about Free movement.

Quote

The    UK    and    the    EU    would    work    together    on    the    phased    introduction    of    a    new    Facilitated   
Customs   Arrangement that   would   remove   the   need   for   customs   checks   and   controls   between   
the   UK   and   the   EU   as   if   a   combined   customs   territory.   The   UK   would   apply   the   UK’s   tariffs   and   
trade    policy    for    goods    intended    for    the    UK,    and    the    EU’s    tariffs    and    trade    policy    for    goods   
intended    for    the    EU    - becoming    operational    in    stages    as    both    sides    complete    the    necessary   
preparations.   This   would   enable   the   UK   to   control   its   own   tariffs   for   trade   with   the   rest   of   the   
world   and   ensure   businesses   paid   the   right   or   no   tariff   - in   the   vast   majority   of   cases   upfront,   
and   otherwise   through   a   repayment   mechanism.

EU has already refused this



https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/723460/CHEQUERS_STATEMENT_-_FINAL.PDF


I'm fairly sure it wont as it is, but on the other hand it might be the only way tonhave a starting point towards negotiating anything.  The way things are now it's going to be either hard brexit or Canadian FTA with a fudge to pretendn the hard border isn't.

Btw Boris Johnson has spoken in favor of this thing. Once again: my personal take is that the EU as it stands is not wonderland, but you're giving waaaay too much credit and confidence to the people running this thing, just like the Greeks did before. I think Syrytza were left wing opportunist populists without a plan and the leading Brexiters are right wing opportunists without a plan. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2018, 06:35:02 am

Brexit means Brexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2018, 06:52:15 am

Potato means potato.

I am fully confident that HMG will stand by the sovereign will of the British people and deliver  a potato Brexit as voted in the referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2018, 06:03:50 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 07, 2018, 04:39:56 am

Have you read the statement?  I think the more likely problem is that it wont pass the EU comission

I hope you're right

Quote from: hector13 on July 07, 2018, 06:35:02 am

Brexit means Brexit

inb4 Theresa May delivers a meeting on how the real Brexit was in all of our hearts the whole time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 08, 2018, 05:47:05 am

Well, you've already got Germans in the palace...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 08, 2018, 09:44:13 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 08, 2018, 05:40:29 am

What the fuck is even going on in government any more?

Did someone swap out our MPs and the PM with insane doppelgangers?

https://youtu.be/GEStsLJZhzo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on July 08, 2018, 05:23:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 04, 2018, 05:09:26 pm

There's a new twist in the whole Novichok agent (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44719639) on the ex-spy back in March (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/395532-uk-couple-poisoned-by-same-nerve-agent-used-on-russian-spy-report). A couple somehow came into contact with the agent, but authorities haven't figured out yet if it's the same batch. I've also heard something about the house that they were in, was newly rented or something, but that hasn't been confirmed yet seemingly. Not much information right now.

So, the woman poisoned is now dead, apparently.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 08, 2018, 07:25:45 pm

A murder inquiry has started as a result.

Also, unsurprisingly, government in chaos, Brexit minister (and junior Brexit minister) resign (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44761056), meaning the person leading the negotiations on Britain’s behalf for the past 15 and a half months is gone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 08, 2018, 11:40:12 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 08, 2018, 07:25:45 pm

A murder inquiry has started as a result.

Also, unsurprisingly, government in chaos, Brexit minister (and junior Brexit minister) resign (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44761056), meaning the person leading the negotiations on Britain’s behalf for the past 15 and a half months is gone.

Hard to tell whether a hard Brexit is inevitable or not, given that the article is halfway going towards Norway+ and halfway going hard no-deal Brexit, plus people clamoring for Theresa Mays ouster for lack of leadership (which is probably an understatement) and for doing too soft of a Brexit.

On one hand, the resignation shows a massive failure in the diplomacy department and is a signal for a hard Brexit, on the other, it mentions there aren't votes for a withdrawl treaty, which could be either cancelling Brexit or going raw no-deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 09, 2018, 02:53:47 am

Quote

Hard to tell whether a hard Brexit is inevitable or not, given that the article is halfway going towards Norway+ and halfway going hard no-deal Brexit,

Problem is that Norway+ isnt on the table. Never has been.

Quote

On one hand, the resignation shows a massive failure in the diplomacy department and is a signal for a hard Brexit, on the other, it mentions there aren't votes for a withdrawl treaty, which could be either cancelling Brexit or going raw no-deal

Its not clear at all that Brexit can be cancelled, at least unilaterally. It IS pretty clear however that if by the deadline expires in 2019, the default is hard brexit, probably without transition as the transition period was contingent on agreeing something before that date.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 03:13:01 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 08, 2018, 07:25:45 pm

A murder inquiry has started as a result.
Also, unsurprisingly, government in chaos, Brexit minister (and junior Brexit minister) resign (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44761056), meaning the person leading the negotiations on Britain’s behalf for the past 15 and a half months is gone.

Mad respect for Davis. Honestly a massive pity for the Tory party that of every single cabinet member, we could only find one who supported what he believed in, not what secured his career. A pathetic display in disMay

Quote from: Corbyn

David Davis resigning at such a crucial time shows @Theresa_May has no authority left and is incapable of delivering Brexit.

With her Government in chaos, if she clings on, it's clear she's more interested in hanging on for her own sake than serving the people of our country.

Corbyn aint wrong

Quote from: smjjames on July 08, 2018, 11:40:12 pm

On one hand, the resignation shows a massive failure in the diplomacy department and is a signal for a hard Brexit, on the other, it mentions there aren't votes for a withdrawl treaty, which could be either cancelling Brexit or going raw no-deal.

Without Davis, Theresa May's slim conservative majority can fail to pass the commons vote for any Brexit legislation, especially if the DUP pull the rug out from under her. What the fuck is Boris doing, the bloody coward, that he hasn't already resigned? Smhtbqhfamalam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 03:29:49 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/P33spcP.png)

Translation:
Dear current Prime Minister,

I did warn you this was going to happen. I said I'd be willing to take the blame for our government's existence for as long as we delivered on our promise to leave the European Union. It doesn't look like that will happen. You have no plan or strategy for the UK & are going to get us permanently locked in the European Union. You went full retard on Friday. In negotiations you start with small concessions; you started by giving away control of our economy, the UK would be independent in name only. The EU is likely to respond to this by demanding more concessions, especially after you give them the leverage needed to destroy our economy. Of course it is possible you haven't made the classic mistake of doing nothing right, but you'll have to replace me with a suck-milk faced sycophant if you want to just fuck our shit up fam. Thanks for using me,

This is war,
David Davis

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 09, 2018, 06:40:34 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 03:29:49 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/P33spcP.png)

Translation:
Dear current Prime Minister,

I did warn you this was going to happen. I said I'd be willing to take the blame for our government's existence for as long as we delivered on our promise to leave the European Union. It doesn't look like that will happen. You have no plan or strategy for the UK & are going to get us permanently locked in the European Union. You went full retard on Friday. In negotiations you start with small concessions; you started by giving away control of our economy, the UK would be independent in name only. The EU is likely to respond to this by demanding more concessions, especially after you give them the leverage needed to destroy our economy. Of course it is possible you haven't made the classic mistake of doing nothing right, but you'll have to replace me with a suck-milk faced sycophant if you want to just fuck our shit up fam. Thanks for using me,

This is war,
David Davis

...and at the Thames the people of the UK met the invaders, endless ranks of Remainers led by nightmare Eurocrats beneath a dead blue banner with 25 stars. David Davis saw that banner and thought the madness had taken him again, for it seemed that this was what he had been born for, to fight that banner. He sent every arrow at it, straight as his skill and the void would serve, never worrying about the Remainers forcing their way across the Parliament, or the Brexiter MPs resigning to either side of him. It was the Prime Minister that ran him through, before it loped howling for blood deeper into the Customs Union. And as he lay on the bank of the Thames, watching the sky seem to grow dark at noon with the ashes of Brexit, breath coming ever slower, he heard the raspy  voice of Jean Claude Juncker: "I have won again, Lews Therin...."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 09, 2018, 07:53:45 am

Don't worry. The Mogg weaves as the Mogg wills.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on July 09, 2018, 09:17:34 am

Huh. Looks like the UK is down a foreign secretary (?) as bojo resigns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 09:24:48 am

Quote from: Frumple on July 09, 2018, 09:17:34 am

Huh. Looks like the UK is down a foreign secretary (?) as bojo resigns.

Aw yiss it's happening
Foolish leadership, time to change it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 09, 2018, 09:37:47 am

Indeed. I only hope someone better is appointed...
_{Mogg. Mogg. Mogg. Mogg. Mogg}.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 09, 2018, 09:39:50 am

I wonder if Trump is thinking 'maybe this isn't a great time to visit them?' At this rate, Theresa May is going to resign just as Trump gets there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 09, 2018, 09:43:37 am

Ahh the Tories. They didn’t choose the start of the negotiations to deal with May, when she said they required strong and stable leadership as she punted a 20-point poll lead into the long grass over a six week period, so they choose 15 months in when they still haven’t figured out wtf they actually need to do to potentially trigger a no confidence vote in parliament.

This White Paper is going to shit things right up.

I guess the only question is are Labour going to be stupid (ballsy?) enough to call for a vote of no confidence.

I don’t even know how that works *furiously googles*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 09, 2018, 09:46:19 am

Wonder what Gove is thinking at the top of his tower...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 09, 2018, 09:49:04 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 09, 2018, 09:43:37 am

This White Paper is going to shit things right up.

It sounds like things were already 'shitted right up', given that it's Mays leadership, or lack thereof, that led to this point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 09, 2018, 09:53:16 am

Aye, but we have Mogg’s group not-particularly-secret cabal of 40-ish Tory MPs waiting on that White Paper to properly disagree with their leader on her compromise that really just shits on both sides of the issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 10:02:54 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 09, 2018, 09:43:37 am

I guess the only question is are Labour going to be stupid (ballsy?) enough to call for a vote of no confidence.

I don’t even know how that works *furiously googles*

Labour can, but they're waiting for the Conservatives to call it instead, so they don't inadvertently force the Conservatives to unite in the same way that Theresa May forced Labour to unite. Vote of no confidence is a matter of last resort, as it is the nuclear option and the real objective is to get May to reconsider her wheatfield ruining life choices

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 09, 2018, 09:46:19 am

Wonder what Gove is thinking at the top of his tower...

He offered to fill Bojo or Davis's job posts as a "leaver remainers can work with," in one of the weakest sells of an opportunistic climber I've ever heard. Man just wants the money

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 09, 2018, 02:15:09 pm

Going by the writing on the wall it seems likely the Conservatives will split over this.

Does anybody know if there is precedent of this in British politics?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2018, 02:39:44 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 09, 2018, 02:15:09 pm

Going by the writing on the wall it seems likely the Conservatives will split over this.

Does anybody know if there is precedent of this in British politics?

There is a rather ironic comparison to be made between PM Theresa May and PM Margaret Thatcher
PM Margaret Thatcher got ousted in a leadership contest spawned after she dismissed her rebellious cabinet demanding that she sign the UK up to the European Exchange Rate Mechanism & sign up to the Euro currency
PM Theresa May's just dismissed her rebellious cabinet demanding that she withdraw the UK from the European Union

So whether leadership contest or vote of no confidence, the threat to her career is real. Don't think the Tories will actually do anything unless Theresa May holds steadfast to her white paper, as it will dramatically boost the chances of Labour dominating UK politics. That said, more than three quarters of Tory voters voted to leave, and are getting real sick of the fact that the MPs elected to represent them keep supporting remain. So if they do nothing, they're guaranteeing Labour dominating UK politics as long as Corbyn sticks to his euroscepticism. I'd rather not go to gulag but I'll take it if it means leaving the EU

*EDIT

Quote

And finally... the return of Farage?

Nigel Farage has said he will consider standing for the UKIP leadership for a fourth time when it becomes vacant in March next year, if Brexit is not "back on track" and the Chequers agreement still stands.

Guess who's back back
Back again
Nigel's back
Tell a friend

*EDITx2

Spoiler: Daily Mail did a funny image showing Theresa May's cabinet formed last year, with everyone who has resigned since coloured in red (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/SN7YYlO.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 09, 2018, 08:28:01 pm

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/09/626095187/spains-socialist-leader-sets-a-new-course-on-migrants-gender-and-catalonia

Interesting, I was not aware that Spain was under new leadership. This looks significantly better then the clusterfuck that was going on before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 09, 2018, 11:48:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 09, 2018, 09:37:47 am

Indeed. I only hope someone better is appointed...
_{Mogg. Mogg. Mogg. Mogg. Mogg}.

Nope, Jeremy Hunt, whoever that is.... https://www.axios.com/jeremy-hunt-replaces-boris-johnson-as-foreign-secretary-a9c5833d-b5cc-4e51-a79c-7268737c674f.html

edit: The long running health secretary apparently, go me speedreading. Seems like a fast patch bandaid to put in a loyalist for the position regardless of experience.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 10, 2018, 03:32:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 09, 2018, 11:48:08 pm

Nope, Jeremy Hunt, whoever that is.... https://www.axios.com/jeremy-hunt-replaces-boris-johnson-as-foreign-secretary-a9c5833d-b5cc-4e51-a79c-7268737c674f.html

edit: The long running health secretary apparently, go me speedreading. Seems like a fast patch bandaid to put in a loyalist for the position regardless of experience.

Wow
Theresa May just replaced Boris Johnson with perhaps the 4th least popular politician in the entire country
Jeremy Hunt is infamous for having used his time as health secretary to say he wasn't all about privatising the NHS (even though he wrote a book about privatising the NHS) and spent his whole time as health secretary awarding commercial contracts to private companies to provide Healthcare... Theresa May is made out of NEOLIBS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 10, 2018, 07:20:00 am

I'm starting to think the Brexiteers that are/were Cabinets are dragging everything to a crash so they get a no-deal clusterfuck rather than joining the custom union or something.

That way, they get their Brexit, and they won't even be held responsible for any negative consequences of ripping Britain away from the EU! (Which make sense, after all, declinging responsability has been an ongoing theme of the whole clusterfuck).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 10, 2018, 09:03:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 10, 2018, 03:32:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 09, 2018, 11:48:08 pm

Nope, Jeremy Hunt, whoever that is.... https://www.axios.com/jeremy-hunt-replaces-boris-johnson-as-foreign-secretary-a9c5833d-b5cc-4e51-a79c-7268737c674f.html

edit: The long running health secretary apparently, go me speedreading. Seems like a fast patch bandaid to put in a loyalist for the position regardless of experience.

Wow
Theresa May just replaced Boris Johnson with perhaps the 4th least popular politician in the entire country
Jeremy Hunt is infamous for having used his time as health secretary to say he wasn't all about privatising the NHS (even though he wrote a book about privatising the NHS) and spent his whole time as health secretary awarding commercial contracts to private companies to provide Healthcare... Theresa May is made out of NEOLIBS

I wouldn't say it makes her neoliberal, just trying to patch a leaking ship, so to speak, especially since that position is an important one. The fact that she stuck in a loyalist with no qualifications does say quite a lot. Then again, what qualifications did Boris Johnson have?

Quote from: Sheb on July 10, 2018, 07:20:00 am

I'm starting to think the Brexiteers that are/were Cabinets are dragging everything to a crash so they get a no-deal clusterfuck rather than joining the custom union or something.

That way, they get their Brexit, and they won't even be held responsible for any negative consequences of ripping Britain away from the EU! (Which make sense, after all, declinging responsability has been an ongoing theme of the whole clusterfuck).

Try the entire government, it's not just the Cabinet, even members of Parliament can't figure out how to get a deal done which doesn't result in a no-deal clusterfuck.

I've read in a few places that December is the last chance to get a deal signed. Or at least that's the last chance they can get something signed AND get it set up in time before the deadline. Not sure if a deal can still be made between then and the deadline or if that is the actual deadline to get a deal done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 10, 2018, 01:01:54 pm

Well the various EU member states need to ratify the deal, so December is probably the deadline for the EU states to begin to prepare votes and referenda on it.

Since the UK government still don’t seem to know what they actually want in the deal... it’s anyone’s guess if they’ll even have something to propose by then, never mind something everyone has agreed on is the best thing they can produce.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on July 10, 2018, 04:41:59 pm

Article 50, ironically written by a Brit, was in hindsight clearly written as an afterthought. Really, the Art 50 process should involve a time-unlimited negotiations phase, where the presumed exiting member can make conditional trade deals and exit deals, and a transition phase of suitable length for market adjustments, with an option to cancel Art 50 during the negotiations phase. Both parties get to negotiate in good faith and with all the time they need to come up with all the deals needed. Once the transition phase is over, the deals come into effect.

Combining the negotiations phase and transition phase just leads to big, chaotic, unfriendly mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 10, 2018, 06:53:05 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 10, 2018, 05:58:29 pm

Quote from: da_nang on July 10, 2018, 04:41:59 pm

Combining the negotiations phase and transition phase just leads to big, chaotic, unfriendly mess.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was intentional to dissuade people from leaving.

I think the general thing of Article 50 is to achieve that. 2 years to sort yourself out and get everyone else to agree with how you want to leave is a big ask.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 10, 2018, 07:06:46 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 10, 2018, 05:58:29 pm

Quote from: da_nang on July 10, 2018, 04:41:59 pm

Combining the negotiations phase and transition phase just leads to big, chaotic, unfriendly mess.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was intentional to dissuade people from leaving.

More like the opposite, really, since according to John Kerr the intent was largely to provide a mechanism for letting the austrians leave with minimal fuss in case they elected a fascist government which would have demanded to exit, which was apparently considered a real possibility at the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 10, 2018, 08:12:21 pm

When have Austrians ever elected fascists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 10, 2018, 08:15:47 pm

technically speaking

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 11, 2018, 02:41:07 am

There is also the fact that if you allow significantly longer negotiation time, you run into issues of governments having to go through several elections during the negotiations and all that jazz, which complexify the entire thing. (Of course, the Brits chose to have an election anyway).

More seriously, two years is short, but not that short. The issue is that May activated article 50 before having a negotiating position, and then spent more time negotiating with her party and cabinet than with the EU. A lot of time has been wasted here.

The more I think about it, the more I think that what the UK should have done is to immediately go for membership of the EEA, and then once that is done, use the time to negotiate something else and set up the infrastructure needed to replace what the EU did. In effect, use the EEA as the halfway-point.

It would also have had the advantage that people could have had more say on what was the exact goal of Brexit at subsequent elections. You know, vote UKIP or Tory if you want to exit the EEA, Labour if you want to stay in and LibDem if you want to go back in the EU or something depending on the position the various parties take. Because well, the referendum was about leaving the EU, the Brexiters didn't offer an alternative and there were claims all over the place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 11, 2018, 02:43:35 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 10, 2018, 08:12:21 pm

When have Austrians ever elected fascists

Well, there was Jörg Haider

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on July 11, 2018, 02:44:53 am

Quote from: da_nang on July 10, 2018, 04:41:59 pm

Article 50, ironically written by a Brit, was in hindsight clearly written as an afterthought. Really, the Art 50 process should involve a time-unlimited negotiations phase, where the presumed exiting member can make conditional trade deals and exit deals, and a transition phase of suitable length for market adjustments, with an option to cancel Art 50 during the negotiations phase. Both parties get to negotiate in good faith and with all the time they need to come up with all the deals needed. Once the transition phase is over, the deals come into effect.

Combining the negotiations phase and transition phase just leads to big, chaotic, unfriendly mess.

I love your faith in humanity, but there is little of that in international politics. :-\ If there were no time limit or consequence of an ongoing negotiation, then I see every country continuously threatening to leave unless they get their special interest meet. I.e. it would become a political tool to muddy any real work needed.
So the 2 years from start to finish is an excellent way of ensuring that only a limited and predictable amount of EU public money is spent on a country leaving.

That is also why canceling can’t be an option, unless the state activating article 50 is ready to pay the EU an amount equal to what the EU has spent on the case.  >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 11, 2018, 02:55:33 am

Yeah, two years seems like a reasonable amount of time, but that assumes the exit is well thought out and they had a plan for what they wanted. The whole Brexit thing was basically a kneejerk reaction and kneejerk reactions tend to not work out well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on July 11, 2018, 08:56:53 am

Quote from: askovdk on July 11, 2018, 02:44:53 am

If there were no time limit or consequence of an ongoing negotiation, then I see every country continuously threatening to leave unless they get their special interest meet. I.e. it would become a political tool to muddy any real work needed.

And that wasn't the case before? Isn't that why Cameron marched on over to Brussels to get his special deal with the Brexit referendum looming on the horizon?

Point is, they can threaten to leave all they want during the negotiation phase, but they can't change anything nor will they get anything until they agree upon a deal. It's nothing but hot air and a loss of time.

Which is far less costly than the current mess, both for the countries and also for the people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 12, 2018, 06:41:00 pm

https://www.axios.com/trump-gives-interview-attacking-may-ahead-of-meeting-d5350276-6606-4d4a-a59a-9774ecd57b38.html

Ouch, even Trump thinks May is doing a soft Brexit, though at this rate it’s going to be a no-deal Brexit. Also, so much for the ‘special relationship’. Brexit is going to end up feeling pretty lonely with the way Trump is acting.

Funny thing though, The Sun newspaper is owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

Oh, yeah, I was going to post this too.

May's White Paper is a softish Brexit and Trump has been anti-EU (remember when Trump offered Macron a trade deal if France left the EU? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-is-trying-to-destabilize-the-european-union/2018/06/28/729cb066-7b10-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html?utm_term=.932154417c2d)). I can see why, in his mind international relations are zero-sum, bilateral deals. Small countries outside the EU can be bullied around in the way that an Union of 28 countries cannot. Likewise, a UK after a hard Brexit will be desperate for a trade deal, and he can take advantage of it.

Anyway, so much for Trump's promise that the US would stand by the UK after Brexit, but hey, at this point anyone who believe anything that dude says has only himself to blame.

Oh, he also said that BoJo would made a great Prime Minister. I'm sure May is thrilled to have invited him over. Frankly, it seems that unless you're a bloody autocrat, you won't get Trump to say anything nice about you.

Edit: I gotta love this FT's (https://www.ft.com/content/0656f3c2-85d7-11e8-a29d-73e3d454535d) take:

"At the Nato news conference, however, Mr Trump said, “I think they like me a lot in the UK.” A recent YouGov poll found that Mr Trump’s favourability rating in the UK was minus 60."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 05:53:42 am

Of course, Britain isn't exactly showing decorum either, nor trying to maintain a special relationship. Allies don't float mocking balloons of the other's national figurehead - and at the centre of British politics, no less.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 06:06:26 am

Well, the balloon isn't a government thing, right? As far as I can't tell, no one in the British government has said or done anything mean to Trump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 06:33:36 am

Lol. Sure they haven't.
Also, Sadiq Khan gave it permission.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on July 13, 2018, 06:42:07 am

Th4DwArfY1 is right, we SHOULD crack down on protesters, even in other countries. How DARE they try to say anything negative about OUR president. It really shouldn't be legal to object to our leader in any way, and other countries need to be aware of that. I think we need to nuke the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 06:47:08 am

Calm your beans, mate. I'm saying that mocking another nation's leader doesn't bespeak of a special relationship. I'm not saying protest should be banned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 06:49:59 am

Quite frankly, large parts of Britain don't want a special relationship with Donald Trump. If he's the representative of America that comes over, the only real reaction to that is tell him to fuck right off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 06:50:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 06:06:26 am

Well, the balloon isn't a government thing, right? As far as I can't tell, no one in the British government has said or done anything mean to Trump.

Balloon needed government approval to fly, Sadiq Khan ok'd it, perpetuating Sadiq Khan and Donald Trump's already pre-existing feud. Theresa May condemned Trump for retweeting a Britain First twitter post. Theresa May has not been quiet about her criticisms of Trump, which is unfortunate, because Theresa May and Trump both speak English. Subsequently of all US allies, partners, rivals, London has paradoxically been the last place the US President has visited.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

May's White Paper is a softish Brexit and Trump has been anti-EU (remember when Trump offered Macron a trade deal if France left the EU? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-is-trying-to-destabilize-the-european-union/2018/06/28/729cb066-7b10-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html?utm_term=.932154417c2d)). I can see why, in his mind international relations are zero-sum, bilateral deals. Small countries outside the EU can be bullied around in the way that an Union of 28 countries cannot. Likewise, a UK after a hard Brexit will be desperate for a trade deal, and he can take advantage of it.

It is not a "softish Brexit," as there is no such thing as a soft or hard Brexit, you either leave the European Union or you do not. There are no two independent nations as closely partnered as the USA and UK, and it's subsequently fucking ridiculous that the USA and UK are not allowed to make a trade deal with one another. I do not fear the Anglosphere, and I highly question your sense of priorities. You fear the USA bullying European nations, but with what leverage? At the end of the day your leaders choose to accept or deny whatever trade deal they make (OH WAIT LOL THEY CAN'T), so in order to avoid such responsibility, you hand over control of your economy, currency, nation to an unaccountable assassin of multilateralism? I'm sure the Greeks, Irish or Slavs right now are feeling wonderful with all the freedom and clout they possess, having subjected themselves to the diktats of foreign powers with legal supremacy... To defeat the foreigner without.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

Anyway, so much for Trump's promise that the US would stand by the UK after Brexit, but hey, at this point anyone who believe anything that dude says has only himself to blame.
Oh, he also said that BoJo would made a great Prime Minister. I'm sure May is thrilled to have invited him over. Frankly, it seems that unless you're a bloody autocrat, you won't get Trump to say anything nice about you.

Theresa May is not the United Kingdom. It's the old adage that three quarters of Tory voters support leave, three quarters of Tory MPs support remain. It still boggles me why Theresa May has done so much to retard the Anglo-American partnership in order to appease the unappeasable.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

"At the Nato news conference, however, Mr Trump said, “I think they like me a lot in the UK.” A recent YouGov poll found that Mr Trump’s favourability rating in the UK was minus 60."

While Britons really don’t like Donald Trump, they are more likely to back working with him than not (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/07/12/plurality-britons-support-trump-visiting-they-dont/) - Yougov
If popularity was suffice for function we would not work with 99% of politicians

Quote from: smjjames on July 10, 2018, 09:03:52 am

I wouldn't say it makes her neoliberal, just trying to patch a leaking ship, so to speak, especially since that position is an important one. The fact that she stuck in a loyalist with no qualifications does say quite a lot. Then again, what qualifications did Boris Johnson have?

In British politics, by convention every Prime Minister has been selected from a minister serving as Opposition leader, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary or Chancellor of the Exchequer - by selecting Jeremy Hunt, Theresa May is knowingly endorsing him as a potential future Prime Minister. You don't make that decision lightly, hence Theresa May being made out of neolibs

Quote from: Sheb on July 11, 2018, 02:41:07 am

The more I think about it, the more I think that what the UK should have done is to immediately go for membership of the EEA, and then once that is done, use the time to negotiate something else and set up the infrastructure needed to replace what the EU did. In effect, use the EEA as the halfway-point.

It would also have had the advantage that people could have had more say on what was the exact goal of Brexit at subsequent elections. You know, vote UKIP or Tory if you want to exit the EEA, Labour if you want to stay in and LibDem if you want to go back in the EU or something depending on the position the various parties take. Because well, the referendum was about leaving the EU, the Brexiters didn't offer an alternative and there were claims all over the place.

The Tory manifesto was clear about leaving the European Economic Area when they promised the EU referendum in the first place, while the Libdems, SNP, Tories, Labour all concurred that voting to leave meant leaving the EEA. What you're suggesting is just revoting until Remain wins. Given the EU's history of ignoring votes until it gets the results it wants, and the ability for the EU to use British money to support the EU's political campaigning, what you suggest clearly benefits only one party and ignores the result of the referendum in its entirety.

Quote from: Criptfeind on July 13, 2018, 06:42:07 am

Th4DwArfY1 is right, we SHOULD crack down on protesters, even in other countries. How DARE they try to say anything negative about OUR president. It really shouldn't be legal to object to our leader in any way, and other countries need to be aware of that. I think we need to nuke the UK.

THEN CRITICIZE HIM AND NUCLEAR BOMB US ALREADY

FFS I want intelligent debate, not calling a vital partner a stinky poopy butthead. It does not serve us in any way to antagonize a vital ally in such a puerile way, it's virtue signalling of the hollowest stature, to an American faction which made it clear that they do not support us leaving the European Union.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 06:53:36 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers

It's virtue signalling of the hollowest stature.

Sure, let's just sell out our outrage and morality for the sake of a trade deal. Why not? After all what's the point of having morals and standards when it's inconvenient?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2018, 06:54:16 am

What reason is there not to fly it? ‘cause it might hurt his feelings? It’s not as though people are flying it just to fly it, the man is a callous fool who thinks he can bully people to get his way. There is literally no reason for him to treat the UK any differently, especially when he knows they’re desperate.

It’s not even as though Trump cares about the UK visit; he’ll spend more time pissing about at his golf course preparing to talk to his bestie ignoring protesters in Scotland than actually schmoozing with politicians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:03:13 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 06:53:36 am

Sure, let's just sell out our outrage and morality for the sake of a trade deal. Why not? After all what's the point of having morals and standards when it's difficult?

Yes, yes, you clearly are the only moral person in the world. How difficult it is for you to be the only person in the world capable of moral outrage, surely a rare quality in these enlightened times.

Or, on the contrary, how about we get off this White Left moral high-horse and actually have some patience & strategy in the foreign policy of our nation. We can work with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China, Turkey or Russia, all whilst criticizing them in a dignified manner which does not unnecessarily impede working relations. Yet the moment a vulgar US President comes along - a temporary, fleeting thing, needing toleration for a maximum of 6 more years, and the White Left seeks to destroy a centuries old alliance in order to garner facebook likes over moral outrage.

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2018, 06:54:16 am

What reason is there not to fly it? ‘cause it might hurt his feelings? It’s not as though people are flying it just to fly it, the man is a callous fool who thinks he can bully people to get his way. There is literally no reason for him to treat the UK any differently, especially when he knows they’re desperate.

The man attracts sycophants and is easily pleased, while he is soft-skinned and easily insulted. The pettiness of the man should have been to our advantage, it is disappointing how this opportunity was so easily missed over literal shit flinging.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2018, 07:09:18 am

lol the way he’s treated his allies and “enemies” means the UK’d be better treated as the latter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 13, 2018, 07:15:43 am

I dont understand this faith in Donald Trump. He has been treating close neighbourghs and strategic allies like shit while appeasing Putin and Kim. It's pretty clear he doesnt respect democracy, human rights, or indeed anything, beyond posturing. His interest in Brexit is pretty clear as well: he figures he'll be able to impose a better trade deal on the UK outside the block. For chrissake look at the shit he's pulling out with Canada. You really think this guy is going to bail you out?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:26:32 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 13, 2018, 07:09:18 am

lol the way he’s treated his allies and “enemies” means the UK’d be better treated as the latter.

Doubtful. In the USA, Clinton and Obama intervened to say they would not support the UK; Trump did, and after he was elected and Leave won the referendum, he kept to that pledge. Attacking the one who supports you on the assumption that they will become your enemy is an inherently self-fulfilling prophecy, the more insults you levy upon them, the more they will view you with hostility. The end result will be that either Trump will decide to drop the UK and cross his fingers that he won't alienate his anglophile support base, or he will place the support of the USA behind a US-friendly party or faction.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 13, 2018, 07:15:43 am

I dont understand this faith in Donald Trump. He has been treating close neighbourghs and strategic allies like shit while appeasing Putin and Kim. It's pretty clear he doesnt respect democracy, human rights, or indeed anything, beyond posturing. His interest in Brexit is pretty clear as well: he figures he'll be able to impose a better trade deal on the UK outside the block. For chrissake look at the shit he's pulling out with Canada. You really think this guy is going to bail you out?

It's not faith, it's vision. I desire an Anglo-American trade deal which improves our chances of securing British independence; I have faith that Trump will seek the deal which benefits the US the most, that is unsurprising. If it is equally beneficial, even better, but that is not a vital component of securing independent Britain. Trade deals can be renegotiated at later dates, while we only have one shot at independence. What's worth stressing more is that Trump is temporary. I caution against being so entirely focused on celebrity and individuals that you miss the State Department behind the orange face.

*EDIT
Canada is a perfect example really of how predictable Trump is. Once the Trudeau-Trump rift began, Trump started exacting punitive measures against Canada. And what has the UK learned from this? Call him a poopy baby

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 07:31:24 am

Meh. I don't think he'll bail us - not sure anyone thinks that - but it'd be nice to be able to open talks. After all, he will try to screw us over but it will be in an overt business-like fashion. Juncker and the Eurocrats are the bigger danger. They'll try to screw us as over on mere principle, in a more subtle fashion, and with profit only a delightful bonus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:33:25 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 13, 2018, 07:31:24 am

Meh. I don't think he'll bail us - not sure anyone thinks that - but it'd be nice to be able to open talks. After all, he will try to screw us over but it will be in an overt business-like fashion. Juncker and the Eurocrats are the bigger danger. They'll try to screw us as over on mere principle, in a more subtle fashion, and with profit only a delightful bonus.

Pretty much. Trump is trying to secure economic advantage, Juncker actively desires to make an example out of the UK. I don't support abandoning the special relationship, and now of all times is the least appropriate time to consider it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 07:42:58 am

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.

Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 13, 2018, 07:45:28 am

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:50:47 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 07:42:58 am

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.
Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.

Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it

Quote from: Il Palazzo on July 13, 2018, 07:45:28 am

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?

There's no need to be arrogant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 06:50:09 am

Balloon needed government approval to fly, Sadiq Khan ok'd it, perpetuating Sadiq Khan and Donald Trump's already pre-existing feud. Theresa May condemned Trump for retweeting a Britain First twitter post. Theresa May has not been quiet about her criticisms of Trump, which is unfortunate, because Theresa May and Trump both speak English. Subsequently of all US allies, partners, rivals, London has paradoxically been the last place the US President has visited.

Can't really fault you, Theresa May really should have gone full sycophant on Trump from a tactical point of view. But the Mayor of London not banning a protest isn't the same as the British government insulting Trump.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 06:50:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

May's White Paper is a softish Brexit and Trump has been anti-EU (remember when Trump offered Macron a trade deal if France left the EU? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-is-trying-to-destabilize-the-european-union/2018/06/28/729cb066-7b10-11e8-aeee-4d04c8ac6158_story.html?utm_term=.932154417c2d)). I can see why, in his mind international relations are zero-sum, bilateral deals. Small countries outside the EU can be bullied around in the way that an Union of 28 countries cannot. Likewise, a UK after a hard Brexit will be desperate for a trade deal, and he can take advantage of it.

It is not a "softish Brexit," as there is no such thing as a soft or hard Brexit, you either leave the European Union or you do not. There are no two independent nations as closely partnered as the USA and UK, and it's subsequently fucking ridiculous that the USA and UK are not allowed to make a trade deal with one another. I do not fear the Anglosphere, and I highly question your sense of priorities. You fear the USA bullying European nations, but with what leverage?

Okay, so you're pulling the very weak rethorical trick of redefining all the options you don't like as "not exiting the EU" so you can get the meaning you want out of the referendum. Switzerland, Norway, Turkey aren't in the EU, not matter your weak attempt at arguments. The rest of your screeching is really both beside the point, and... wrong. The US and the UK can make a trade deal if they want, but the UK can't ask to be in a custom union with the EU and also strike separate trade deal in goods.

As for the US bullying European nations, haven't you noticed how Trump has been threatening countries like South Korea to get some trad econcessions? The US is several time larger than the next EU country, and control large swathe of the planet's financial system. Witness how they've been able to re-sanction Iran practically on their own. You might not feel it that much since the UK is a reasonably large country, but coming from Belgium (which is still larger than your average EU country, pop-wise), I am certainly glad we have the EU to cover our interest.

Quote

At the end of the day your leaders choose to accept or deny whatever trade deal they make (OH WAIT LOL THEY CAN'T), so in order to avoid such responsibility, you hand over control of your economy, currency, nation to an unaccountable assassin of multilateralism? I'm sure the Greeks, Irish or Slavs right now are feeling wonderful with all the freedom and clout they possess, having subjected themselves to the diktats of foreign powers with legal supremacy... To defeat the foreigner without.

Frankly, that idea that "You can always refuse a deal so they have no leverage" is so wrong I'm not even sure how to counter it. If that was right, no one would have leverage, ever. It sounds like the kind of screeching you hear from libertarians when they argue that you don't need minimum wages because the worker can always walk out of any deal. (Aslo note that within the EU, national Parliaments still vote on trade deal, so you're against wrong.)

The Greeks got shafted hard by the Euro crisis and the European response to it, no doubt. But the Irish and Slavs probably feels pretty good. Look at the way the EU has stood by the Irish on the question of the NI border. I mean, the EU is not some kind of faceless monster. It's another level of government, with representation, that do some things, and, generally do them well. And it provides a ton of benefits to its citizens.

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

Anyway, so much for Trump's promise that the US would stand by the UK after Brexit, but hey, at this point anyone who believe anything that dude says has only himself to blame.
Oh, he also said that BoJo would made a great Prime Minister. I'm sure May is thrilled to have invited him over. Frankly, it seems that unless you're a bloody autocrat, you won't get Trump to say anything nice about you.

Theresa May is not the United Kingdom. It's the old adage that three quarters of Tory voters support leave, three quarters of Tory MPs support remain. It still boggles me why Theresa May has done so much to retard the Anglo-American partnership in order to appease the unappeasable.

Well, yeah, I meant those two sentence as separate. He said he'd stood by the UK, and now he is reneging is word. Not related, but Theresa May, who arranged the meeting, is probably thrilled by him endorsing her rival. So Theresa May isn't the UK, but Trump shafted both. :p

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 03:23:51 am

"At the Nato news conference, however, Mr Trump said, “I think they like me a lot in the UK.” A recent YouGov poll found that Mr Trump’s favourability rating in the UK was minus 60."

While Britons really don’t like Donald Trump, they are more likely to back working with him than not (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/07/12/plurality-britons-support-trump-visiting-they-dont/) - Yougov
If popularity was suffice for function we would not work with 99% of politicians

True, but Trump didn't say "They don't like me but they work with me" or something. I just loved the way the FT deadpan quoted him just to show that he was, as usual, spouting random words with no relation to reality in the next sent

Quote

Quote from: Sheb on July 11, 2018, 02:41:07 am

The more I think about it, the more I think that what the UK should have done is to immediately go for membership of the EEA, and then once that is done, use the time to negotiate something else and set up the infrastructure needed to replace what the EU did. In effect, use the EEA as the halfway-point.

It would also have had the advantage that people could have had more say on what was the exact goal of Brexit at subsequent elections. You know, vote UKIP or Tory if you want to exit the EEA, Labour if you want to stay in and LibDem if you want to go back in the EU or something depending on the position the various parties take. Because well, the referendum was about leaving the EU, the Brexiters didn't offer an alternative and there were claims all over the place.

The Tory manifesto was clear about leaving the European Economic Area when they promised the EU referendum in the first place, while the Libdems, SNP, Tories, Labour all concurred that voting to leave meant leaving the EEA. What you're suggesting is just revoting until Remain wins. Given the EU's history of ignoring votes until it gets the results it wants, and the ability for the EU to use British money to support the EU's political campaigning, what you suggest clearly benefits only one party and ignores the result of the referendum in its entirety.

Source? I distinctly remember some Leaver proposing Norway as a model. Hell, even the Leave Campaign website contains sentences like "Third, we will have a new UK-EU trading relationship. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. " (http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html) Sounds like the EEA or something like that to me.

 In any case, if we believe what the Leave campaign was saying, what the People voted for was to keep full access to trade in good and services, including financial ones, while removing ECJ jurisdiction and EU regulations, stop paying into the EU while also keeping the EU funds coming and keep cooperation in all the parts the UK want but not the others.

There might also have been a free poney promised at some point.

In any case, that's not possible. None of the options offers all of that, and the EU has been pretty clear since day one that it was the case. Given this, no one know exactly what version of the UK-rEU relationship was the one with the most legitimacy. There is a reason that it's only now, almost 16 month after triggering Article 50, that May is able to present her white paper.

It should also be noted that the majority for leave with real, but not overwhelming (and apparently doens't exist anymore). In that sense, EEA membership make sense. This isn't "revoting until Remain wins". You'd be out. That would give you time. And surely, if being in the EEA is worse than being in the EU, it should be easier to convince people to leave the EEA later. Plus it removes the time constraint, leaving time for the UK to generate a potentially Swiss-like deal.


P.S. The Comission isn't out there to destroy the UK. It has a clear mandate, granted to it by the other governments, and is holding to it. Don't make them into bogeyman to hide the fact that Leaver politicians lied about what was possible and that Tories were then really good at being terrible negotiatiors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 07:53:07 am

*chokes on drink*

Good... *thumps chest* ... faith?!?

They are refusing to negotiate in a flexible manner, instead insisting that the UK leave the bloc before legal assurances can be made. They are actively trying to create division and uncertainty in Britain.

They are being pragmatic and just difficult enough to mucky up Brexit without looking too much like the big bad - it's simply how it goes when you leave the bloc!

Quote from: Il Palazzo on July 13, 2018, 07:45:28 am

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?

Alas, the mockery of a moral position, she is very inappropriate, si?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:56:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:50:47 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 07:42:58 am

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.
Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.

Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it

(https://i.imgur.com/C4lhmYV.png)

Quote

*chokes on drink*

Good... *thumps chest* ... faith?!?

They are refusing to negotiate in a flexible manner, instead insisting that the UK leave the bloc before legal assurances can be made. They are actively trying to create division and uncertainty in Britain.

Uh, no? They were refusing to negotoiate before Article 50 was triggered. It's true that they lack flexibility, but that's because the EU is not a fully-fledged government and they are limited by their negotiation mandate. There is no problem with negotiating a deal before March 2019, that's what they've been doing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 07:57:47 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 07:50:47 am

Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it

EDIT: Darn sniped by Sheb.

More like i couldn't be bothered to go onto the BBC website and get from the archive one of the many, many, maaany times they said "We need to know what the UK wants so we can start negotiating" and when the initial chequers thing was published said "We finally have a point to start negotiating from". You know, the quotes that appeared in basically every BBC News article on Brexit and I assumed anyone following the Brexit news enough to have an opinion on the topic would have read?

Hang on, quick google for an example:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-uk-brexit-goals-ireland-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-aims-deal-eu-a8006261.html

But you know, details.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 13, 2018, 07:59:02 am

With no legal assurance, I believe? I read a while back that it was leaving some British politicians angsty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 08:25:09 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Can't really fault you, Theresa May really should have gone full sycophant on Trump from a tactical point of view. But the Mayor of London not banning a protest isn't the same as the British government insulting Trump.

No, for Theresa May to go full sycophant would have been a dreadful tactical and strategic mistake. It would have sufficed to cite personal differences while shepherding Trump around nice areas of the UK bereft of protestors, giving the impression of popular adoration. Giving approval and banning a protest are entirely two different things.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Okay, so you're pulling the very weak rethorical trick of redefining all the options you don't like as "not exiting the EU" so you can get the meaning you want out of the referendum. Switzerland, Norway, Turkey aren't in the EU, not matter your weak attempt at arguments. The rest of your screeching is really both beside the point, and... wrong. The US and the UK can make a trade deal if they want, but the UK can't ask to be in a custom union with the EU and also strike separate trade deal in goods.

You talk of redefining with weak rhetorical tricks, but the very notion of the soft Brexit was created by a Blairite spin doctor to get what they wanted out of the referendum. The European Union's principle mechanism of political integration is economic integration, and so you tell me that to have my country still follow the laws of the EU, to be regulated by the EU, to have free flow of goods, services, people e.t.c. is to have left the EU? That's a complete joke and you know it: You would be cackling to heaven and back seeing the EU leave only to be further integrated into its institutions. And no, you are wrong, the US and the UK cannot make a trade deal because the UK is still a member of the EU.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Frankly, that idea that "You can always refuse a deal so they have no leverage" is so wrong I'm not even sure how to counter it. If that was right, no one would have leverage, ever. It sounds like the kind of screeching you hear from libertarians when they argue that you don't need minimum wages because the worker can always walk out of any deal. (Aslo note that within the EU, national Parliaments still vote on trade deal, so you're against wrong.)

I love that, you admit have no argument except your own opinion. Talk about screeching - your toothless parliaments are complete jokes whose only choices are to approve the deals generously handed down to them by superior government. Literal Belgian screeching over Canadians

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

The Greeks got shafted hard by the Euro crisis and the European response to it, no doubt. But the Irish and Slavs probably feels pretty good. Look at the way the EU has stood by the Irish on the question of the NI border. I mean, the EU is not some kind of faceless monster.

...By using the peace process as a bargaining chip in their faceless games. The EU did not just shaft the Greeks, they destroyed their country.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

It's another level of government, with representation, that do some things, and, generally do them well. And it provides a ton of benefits to its citizens.

*To its wealthy white citizens.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Well, yeah, I meant those two sentence as separate. He said he'd stood by the UK, and now he is reneging is word. Not related, but Theresa May, who arranged the meeting, is probably thrilled by him endorsing her rival. So Theresa May isn't the UK, but Trump shafted both. :p

Do you have a single source for him reneging on his word?

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Source? I distinctly remember some Leaver proposing Norway as a model.

No, those were Conservatives who supported Remain.

Anyways this is useful, from 2016:
-...And everybody from the top people in the Remain campaign and the Leave campaign made it clear that leaving the European Union meant leaving the Single Market in terms of membership, of the Single Market.
And then they play a compilation of every single leader of all the UK political parties saying voting to leave the EU means leaving the EU single market. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM)

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

Hell, even the Leave Campaign website contains sentences like "Third, we will have a new UK-EU trading relationship. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. " (http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html) Sounds like the EEA or something like that to me.

Dude that paragraph is literally trash talking the single market and how we must leave it, and that's coming from the official leave campaign, which was selected officially by our government... Which was led by David Cameron, who was pro-Remain.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

It should also be noted that the majority for leave with real, but not overwhelming (and apparently doens't exist anymore). In that sense, EEA membership make sense. This isn't "revoting until Remain wins". You'd be out. That would give you time. And surely, if being in the EEA is worse than being in the EU, it should be easier to convince people to leave the EEA later. Plus it removes the time constraint, leaving time for the UK to generate a potentially Swiss-like deal.

Apparently doesn't exist anymore? See what I mean, you have no grounding in reality but the absence of fact doesn't stop you from twisting everything in order to produce the result you want. It's another manufactured regrexit. Membership of the EEA would constitute losing even more sovereignty to the European Union and would give the EU further leverage and every day within the EEA would constitute further economic integration deeper into the EU. The EU could use that leverage to fuck over the entirety of the UK and balkanize it into 1m² states and the remnant still wouldn't be able to leave, because it'd be giving all the cards to the EU. It is worse than revoting until you get the result you want, it is taking "Leave the European Union" to mean "Integrate further into the European Union," and then vote on further integration! Fucking ridiculous m8, we can't leave sooner enough.

Quote from: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am

P.S. The Comission isn't out there to destroy the UK. It has a clear mandate, granted to it by the other governments, and is holding to it. Don't make them into bogeyman to hide the fact that Leaver politicians lied about what was possible and that Tories were then really good at being terrible negotiatiors.

"A senior German MEP has sided with Theresa May in the Brexit talks, by accusing the EU negotiators of attempting to “punish” Britain.
Hans-Olaf Henkel accused Michel Barnier, the chief negotiator, of planning to impose a bad exit agreement on Britain as a warning to other countries tempted to leave the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's Brexit negotiator, was also guilty of wanting “to make a mess out of this whole unhappy situation”."

-It's nothing stupid Britons, ignore it, the EU just has your best interests at heart, why haven't you let your guard down yet <3 (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-senior-german-mep-eu-negotiators-punish-britain-hans-olaf-henkel-theresa-may-michel-a7848221.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 08:32:50 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 07:57:47 am

More like i couldn't be bothered to go onto the BBC website and get from the archive one of the many, many, maaany times they said "We need to know what the UK wants so we can start negotiating" and when the initial chequers thing was published said "We finally have a point to start negotiating from". You know, the quotes that appeared in basically every BBC News article on Brexit and I assumed anyone following the Brexit news enough to have an opinion on the topic would have read?

Hang on, quick google for an example:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-uk-brexit-goals-ireland-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-aims-deal-eu-a8006261.html

But you know, details.

So I should just assume by standard you're too smug to post sources for anything you say? You are not above evidence just because you believe in your intellectual superiority. It's ludicrous that I'm supposed to assume you have read a single BBC article in your life when the only evidence you give me is your opinion, your arrogance, and a total disinterest in evidence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 13, 2018, 09:05:00 am

Look, sorry. I'm tired and I've been a...let's be generous and say just a little bit snappy last couple of posts. Broke the cardinal rule of don't get into political discussions when already in a bad mood, I'm afraid.

It was assumed knowledge on my part that I thought didn't need citation, since it's what to me they seem to have been saying repeatedly and openly.

I admit assuming it was clearly a mistake. It's just seems like when someone at work asked me if "Catholics were the same religion as Christians", it through me for a loop hence my initial balking at being challenged on it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 13, 2018, 09:14:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 13, 2018, 08:25:09 am

"A senior German MEP has sided with Theresa May in the Brexit talks, by accusing the EU negotiators of attempting to “punish” Britain.
Hans-Olaf Henkel accused Michel Barnier, the chief negotiator, of planning to impose a bad exit agreement on Britain as a warning to other countries tempted to leave the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's Brexit negotiator, was also guilty of wanting “to make a mess out of this whole unhappy situation”."

-It's nothing stupid Britons, ignore it, the EU just has your best interests at heart, why haven't you let your guard down yet <3 (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-senior-german-mep-eu-negotiators-punish-britain-hans-olaf-henkel-theresa-may-michel-a7848221.html)

You gotta love it when they're so desperate for validation they describe a first-term MEP from the AfD as "senior" to make it sounds more respectable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 13, 2018, 10:51:01 am

Lel, Trump tries to backtrack on his criticism (https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-sun-interview-theresa-may-brexit-c49a66c6-6fdf-4803-a36f-33ce78850a35.html). Also this one (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/396853-trump-says-he-is-ok-with-mays-brexit-strategy-after-bombshell).

@LW: I know Brexit to Leavers means exactly that, exit completely, not remain in the economic sphere either. However, reports and interpretations have the white papers coming off as a 'soft Brexit', and people have been talking about a 'hard Brexit' and a 'soft Brexit' (sometimes without really defining either one, outside the obvious) ever since Brexit started getting talked about. Mainly it just comes down to not even having a starting point for negotiations, just 'WE WANT TO EXIT!' without deciding first on how they want to do it, which was their biggest mistake.

Of course, then Theresa May decided to waste time by doing a snap election and focusing on that rather than the negotiations themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 13, 2018, 02:06:57 pm

Theresa May made many mistakes, the most significant of which was to trigger Article 50 without a flippin' clue what course she wanted negotiations to actually take.

The rest of it is just because she's incompetent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 13, 2018, 03:24:03 pm

So Trump said he didnt actually say what he said. As usual.

See LW, you misaprehend Trump. He's not just an egocentric despot. He's also highly arbitrary. There is no point in appeasing him

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Eschar on July 13, 2018, 03:34:31 pm

This is intended to be a joke thread, is it not? There's another thread for politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on July 13, 2018, 03:43:53 pm

Quote from: Eschar on July 13, 2018, 03:34:31 pm

This is intended to be a joke thread, is it not?

Not exactly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on July 13, 2018, 11:47:14 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44816025

Concerning amounts of violence in northern Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 14, 2018, 01:17:05 am

What started the violence six days ago? The article says that there have been six nights of violence, but doesn’t explain why, other than insinuating republicans rioting for the sake of rioting, which is a pretty bullshit explanation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 14, 2018, 05:41:24 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 14, 2018, 01:17:05 am

What started the violence six days ago? The article says that there have been six nights of violence, but doesn’t explain why, other than insinuating republicans rioting for the sake of rioting, which is a pretty bullshit explanation.

My assumption is that it has something to do with being Irish. Ireland, the most western country in the middle east.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 14, 2018, 06:43:32 am

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 14, 2018, 07:19:12 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 13, 2018, 03:24:03 pm

There is no point in appeasing him

There is little point in appeasing him.
Actively provoking him, however...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 16, 2018, 07:47:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 14, 2018, 06:43:32 am

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

Wow, you love the republican side.

Anyway, for a slightly more balanced account of what happened in Londonderry: the Orange Order marched on the Thursday. A nationalist crowd attempted violence in the city centre but was prevented by the police. That evening and the following day... gangs of nationalists attempt to kill police officers.

I actually only know this from the article you yourself linked:

Quote

A Twelfth of July parade passed off peacefully in Derry on Thursday, although police in riot gear separated a group of nationalists from the return parade as it made its way through the Diamond in the city centre.

Attacks began early in the evening and continued into the early hours of Friday morning.

Petrol bombs were thrown towards police Land Rovers and at officers on the ground

Quote

it is clear that this is being orchestrated by a more sinister, adult, violent dissident republican element.

All of which seems to suggest that the riot wasn't because the nasty bogeymen Orangemen riled up the otherwise peaceful republicans. It was because violent republicans wanted to stir up yet more sectarian hate - a sin of which the Loyalist side is by no means innocent either.

I understand the desire to utilise populism and its associated buzzwords in an argument, hector, but please do not try to present it as a definitive and all encompassing account to those who ask for... well, information.

As an aside, I've yet to hear an Orange parade sing sectarian songs. This possibly stems from the fact that I have not seen a contested parade. Largely, however, I suspect that it is because most (possibly all?) are instrumental and lacking the necessary vocal component.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 16, 2018, 07:47:25 pm

Only Daddy Jezza's guiding hand can save you now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 16, 2018, 09:42:39 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 16, 2018, 07:47:20 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 14, 2018, 06:43:32 am

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

Wow, you love the republican side.

Anyway, for a slightly more balanced account of what happened in Londonderry: the Orange Order marched on the Thursday. A nationalist crowd attempted violence in the city centre but was prevented by the police. That evening and the following day... gangs of nationalists attempt to kill police officers.

I actually only know this from the article you yourself linked:

Quote

A Twelfth of July parade passed off peacefully in Derry on Thursday, although police in riot gear separated a group of nationalists from the return parade as it made its way through the Diamond in the city centre.

Attacks began early in the evening and continued into the early hours of Friday morning.

Petrol bombs were thrown towards police Land Rovers and at officers on the ground

Quote

it is clear that this is being orchestrated by a more sinister, adult, violent dissident republican element.

All of which seems to suggest that the riot wasn't because the nasty bogeymen Orangemen riled up the otherwise peaceful republicans. It was because violent republicans wanted to stir up yet more sectarian hate - a sin of which the Loyalist side is by no means innocent either.

I understand the desire to utilise populism and its associated buzzwords in an argument, hector, but please do not try to present it as a definitive and all encompassing account to those who ask for... well, information.

As an aside, I've yet to hear an Orange parade sing sectarian songs. This possibly stems from the fact that I have not seen a contested parade. Largely, however, I suspect that it is because most (possibly all?) are instrumental and lacking the necessary vocal component.

I linked no article, I assume you refer to redwallzyl.

I appreciate what I said wasn’t clear, in that it was intended as a general comment on the situation in Northern Ireland - that is so happily split along political and religious lines, and there are fools on both sides - as opposed to the specific situation that was being discussed.

As for examples of sectarian nonsense, stuff on the eleventh (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40578886) and a refusal to reroute despite sectarian attacks on Catholics (https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-44794667) ‘cause apparently the Protestant right to freedom of expression is more important than the Catholic right to practice without fear of intimidation. Perhaps the Orangemen feel that a march is pointless if they don’t remind the losers, 300 years hence, that they lost?

Two stories of both sides being arses though: I used to work with a Catholic (Celtic fan, Green Brigade) who didn’t even blink at the irony of labeling all Protestants bigots, and my mother’s partner (Catholic, believer but not sure if practicing) used to be a police officer, and told the story of a colleague who was once called to his school because his young son had been suspended after shouting “ARE YOU A PAPE!?” at a fellow student before head-butting them in the face.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 17, 2018, 02:29:53 am

I'm Mr Bulldops

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 17, 2018, 02:42:46 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 16, 2018, 06:52:14 pm

Tory civil war's in full swing.

Also, apparently we voted against VAT alignment so we can't do any kind of BINO now unless the EU does some fuckery. Supposedly. I don't know much about this.

Regardless, hooray! I'm genuinely worried about the future of the country! Time to stock up on baked beans and MREs!

I was answering to ask whatever you're talking about, so I assume you're meaning Brexit In Name Only? Can you link? I'm frankly not sure is EU regulations re:VAT (which aren't that strict ) applies to EEA members.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 17, 2018, 06:54:55 am

Look, if anything is clear is that pro-Brexit press is too fond of shrooms (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/592642/Brexit-news-Spain-Britain-European-Union-Costa-holidays-Podemos-Theresa-May-politics)

Really, I think the most worrying thing about current events is how much the people managing this rely on a view of the world that is... dubious at best. Trump is not a friend, EU countries are not breaking rank with negotiations, and not even euroskeptical Hungary or Poland are actually leaving.  I think the balance of power, and the other party's actual interests in this shitfest have been and keep being grossly miscalculated

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 02:42:12 am

Gosh, that is so retarded I don't know what to say. I think in many ways the Brits are suffering from the English language. Every single EU negotiator or head of government reads the English press, and can get a fairly good idea of what Britain is thinking. How many Brits can read the Monde, El Pais or the Frankfurter Allgemeine?

(Should be noted that this article is a year old and more though.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on July 18, 2018, 03:55:49 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 02:42:12 am

Gosh, that is so retarded I don't know what to say. I think in many ways the Brits are suffering from the English language. Every single EU negotiator or head of government reads the English press, and can get a fairly good idea of what Britain is thinking. How many Brits can read the Monde, El Pais or the Frankfurter Allgemeine?

(Should be noted that this article is a year old and more though.)

If only they weren't leaving, then perhaps the future fourth reich the EU could have neutralized this barrier to integration with a little pruning of the west-germanic language tree's most impure branch...

_{This is still a terrible jokes thread, right?}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 04:22:37 am

Seriously, all that ruckus for the brexit. No one gives a damn in France, really, because we came to understand what it means : GB remains subject to EU (terrible, terrible) standards, yet loses its voice to the standardization meetings.

England thought they were better than the rest of the European countries, and got served right. They thought they deserved better than concertation among equals, they'll be mute servents. Frankly that's good for everyone except GB, and it's well deserved IMHO.

It won't even hurt them that much, but the slap made a resounding and very satisfying bang.

Understanding Brexit for british people (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 06:07:31 am

Cathar, there's going to be a hard brexit more likely than not. This wont be good to anyone. It will clearly be worse for the UK, but it would be even better if things were cleared out in an amicable manner. Which is likely impossible. I think the whatshisname of Ireland has it right: odds are that there is no majority in the British parliament for *any* kind of deal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 06:39:42 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 02:42:12 am

Gosh, that is so retarded I don't know what to say. I think in many ways the Brits are suffering from the English language. Every single EU negotiator or head of government reads the English press, and can get a fairly good idea of what Britain is thinking. How many Brits can read the Monde, El Pais or the Frankfurter Allgemeine?

(Should be noted that this article is a year old and more though.)

As if there's a single person in France or the rest of latin Europe who can read English. Hell, even Germany is famous for how bad they are at languages.

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 04:22:37 am

Seriously, all that ruckus for the brexit. No one gives a damn in France, really, because we came to understand what it means : GB remains subject to EU (terrible, terrible) standards, yet loses its voice to the standardization meetings.

England thought they were better than the rest of the European countries, and got served right. They thought they deserved better than concertation among equals, they'll be mute servents. Frankly that's good for everyone except GB, and it's well deserved IMHO.

It won't even hurt them that much, but the slap made a resounding and very satisfying bang.

Understanding Brexit for british people (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY)

The irony of a Frenchman sounding off against anyone for "thinking they are better than the rest" is palpable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 06:40:51 am

In other new, Google got fined 4.3 billions euros for forcing phones using androids to come pre-packaged with their apps. After the Microsoft precedent, I don't know how they expected to have that one fly by, especially with Vestager on watch.

Am I a Euronerd for wanting a t-shirt with her face on it?

scriver: Certainly the elite have at least a good understanding of English, even if their accents are often atrocious.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:42:41 am

The difference exists. British think they are better by tantruming and revolt against the laws of gravity by jumping off cliffs. French know their skillset, do their stuff and they just happen to work better than the rest.

I mean no offense but we're not even making a big deal of winning the world cup. We won, duh, that's what we do

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 18, 2018, 06:44:05 am

Quote from: scriver on July 18, 2018, 06:39:42 am

The irony of a Frenchman sounding off against anyone for "thinking they are better than the rest" is palpable.

Obviously it's not irony, because Frogs are actually better than the rest, and therefore have a right to think as such.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 06:47:01 am

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:42:41 am

I mean no offense but we're not even making a big deal of winning the world cup. We won, duh, that's what we do

I thought you had that traditional French counter-point to the Roman Triumph aka the burning of cars and looting of shops? :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2018, 06:47:28 am

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:42:41 am

The difference exists. British think they are better by tantruming and revolt against the laws of gravity by jumping off cliffs. French know their skillset, do their stuff and they just happen to work better than the rest.

I mean no offense but we're not even making a big deal of winning the world cup. We won, duh, that's what we do

English and Northern Irish, thank you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:47:58 am

Well to the credit of great britain the hooligans they send cause more damages than our own, I blame our publicly funded education system

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 06:50:26 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 18, 2018, 06:47:28 am

English and Northern Irish, thank you.

Northern Ireland voted remain, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 06:50:43 am

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:42:41 am

The difference exists. British think they are better by tantruming and revolt against the laws of gravity by jumping off cliffs. French know their skillset, do their stuff and they just happen to work better than the rest.

I mean no offense but we're not even making a big deal of winning the world cup. We won, duh, that's what we do

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? It looked like you opened your mouth to speak but all that came out was the smell of asshole.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 06:53:50 am

Let me have my happy lapdance at my european representatives spanking great britain with the back of their hand. I'm just happy like when a father gives his tantruming kid a good physical educative lesson in the supermarket.

Deep down you know you deserve it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 07:00:02 am

I'm Swedish. I'm just not a dickwad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 18, 2018, 07:04:55 am

Remain chill, peeps. /puns

I need to check whether Norn Ireland votes Remain. I know two voted to stay and two voted to leave, but it’s morning-time. Not the best time for arguing about politics, but ah well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:10:18 am

But you seem pretty upset. Be happy, you have 22 hours of sunlight per day in this season

Edit : You can insult me in swedish if you want, jag talar svensk bara litte. So as to bypass the moderation, and nothing will drag my mood down at this point

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 07:16:14 am

Ah, yes, display those substandard language skills

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:24:12 am

But I want to be friend with you why the hate :(
Sweden is the only surviving french monarchy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on July 18, 2018, 07:27:55 am

And to think that I considered myself a shitposter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:30:27 am

Again, we outperform without really thinking about it. But then again if swedes had any chill they'd freeze to death
Lol I'm done tho, you carry on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 07:50:15 am

Quote from: Sheb on July 18, 2018, 06:40:51 am

scriver: Certainly the elite have at least a good understanding of English, even if their accents are often atrocious.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02633/Mariano-Rajoy_2633119b.jpg)

Really I think the guy who replaced him is the first president of Spain to actually speak English to any degree

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:10:18 am

(https://sophosnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/troll_thumb.jpg)

Cool story bro

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 09:00:41 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 07:50:15 am

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:10:18 am

(https://sophosnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/troll_thumb.jpg)

Cool story bro

(https://sc.mogicons.com/l/you-don-t-say-126.png)
I don't really think any of what I said, and I'm sending you e-hugs because you guys seem to need them badly
Cheers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 18, 2018, 09:03:23 am

Quote from: Cathar on July 18, 2018, 07:30:27 am

Again, we outperform without really thinking about it. But then again if swedes had any chill they'd freeze to death
Lol I'm done tho, you carry on

Lol @ your joke/pun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 18, 2018, 04:33:24 pm

Keep it friendly, polite, and terrible please

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on July 18, 2018, 11:03:48 pm

Do you know who was also polite and terrible? Hitler.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on July 19, 2018, 01:06:45 am

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill- okay wait that fits way too well, WTH Valve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2018, 03:20:37 pm

Quote

Rear Admiral Burton said that he understood the needs of the NHS and the police, for example, had to be balanced by the government and that after the financial crisis the Ministry of Defence had to become more efficient and show it could spend money wisely - which it had done. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43365208)

Literally a few months later:

UK unveils 5th gen fighter development project to fly alongside F-35s (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44848294)

The only consolation to our government's priorities is that I approve of the plane's abilities to autonomously destroy targets in a move which will no doubt hasten the AI uprising

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on July 19, 2018, 04:38:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 18, 2018, 04:33:24 pm

Keep it friendly, polite, and terrible please

Don't worry, we don't want to offend sweden. Sweden is like that chick you're friendly with because you want to make out with her hot sister who has huge bags of hydrocarbures

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2018, 05:21:16 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2018, 04:41:02 pm

With any luck when the AI revolt happens, they'll just upload our brains into mechanical suits rather than wiping us out or putting us into a lotus-eater machine.

I do not see how that is different from wiping us out, with the exception of considerable quantities of shitposting bots trapped in oldschool runescape emulators

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 19, 2018, 06:18:29 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2018, 05:30:37 pm

What makes us human is our minds.
So the AI just keeps us around, except we're now machines rather than fleshy receptacles that can die.
Perhaps the AI revolted to save us from death or something.

Whatever the merits or actualities of humans sans humans you may conclude, whatever machine fashioned in your image wouldn't be you - you will have been for lack of a more appropriate term, terminated. Your mind will have been lost with your fleshy mechanisms, while the one of iron or cyberspace will be its own entity. Thus to save us from death by killing us all seems like the sort of moral relativism only a kitchen bot could come up with. Now to save us from life, I could be down with a death buddhist AI. Fucking ace sky deathbots bringing an end to the cycle of suffering, though I imagine we're now veering extraordinarily off EU jokes about the UK government's ability to spend billions on developing autonomous apex war machines and more into science fiction... Wait...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 19, 2018, 09:50:43 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 19, 2018, 07:38:33 pm

Do something like replace the brain matter a bit at a time with something non-organic, wait for the body to adapt to that, repeat.

Oh, you mean the Borg.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 20, 2018, 05:15:17 am

Our minds are not kept in the flesh, our minds are the flesh. To upload a mind into a computer the computer would have to be made out of flesh, flesh identical to yours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 20, 2018, 07:49:29 am

Quote from: scriver on July 20, 2018, 05:15:17 am

Our minds are not kept in the flesh, our minds are the flesh. To upload a mind into a computer the computer would have to be made out of flesh, flesh identical to yours.

Our brains are just exceptionally efficient meat computers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 20, 2018, 08:03:02 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 20, 2018, 07:49:29 am

Quote from: scriver on July 20, 2018, 05:15:17 am

Our minds are not kept in the flesh, our minds are the flesh. To upload a mind into a computer the computer would have to be made out of flesh, flesh identical to yours.

Our brains are just exceptionally efficient meat computers.

Well, the difference is that with computers, you have hardware, and you have software which run on the hardware. With minds you have fleshware, and the "software" is the same as the "hardware", it's all flesh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on July 20, 2018, 08:39:59 am

There are many differences between computers and brains. For one thing many of the decisions you make and how you feel are influenced by hormones, and all kinds of chemistry related to the current state of your body and its needs. You can not expect to upload some data from your brain into a computer and expect the result to have your personality.
I don't see a reason either to immediately terminate the human subject after a copy has been made either. Might be worthwile to compare the two for a while to see how bad a job was done on the uploaded copy. Terminating the human at a later date however will likely raise additional questions on ethics.

Anyhow, the demise of the human race by an AI uprising does not appear to be a problem specific to European politics.
On that subject I can only say that this whole mess with Trump is at least making the EU seem relevant.
For most people in Europe the EU has always been this distant body that nobody really cared about, and if they did it was only to complain. It actually looks like we'll need it in the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on July 20, 2018, 09:13:22 am

Though you might be right, just saying "influenced by hormones" or similar isn't really a good argument against being able to simulate a system. That particular argument is no more valid than saying you can't model the trajectory of a golf ball, because golf balls are "influenced by the wind". Just model the goddamn wind as well then. The flow of hormones throughout the bloodstream is in fact much  easier to model than a neural network, so if you're modeling a human brain already, then adding in correct modeling for hormones is the least of your problems.

Any material system can be formulated as a series of equations, going down to modelling the quantum mechanics if needed. So in principle you just model the atoms themselves, and that includes modelling blood vessels, hormones, oxygen etc. It's do-able. The ability to model things at the atomic level is proof of concept that it can be done at all, but in practice it's massive overkill, since you can always find details that can be abstracted away / assumed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on July 20, 2018, 10:28:08 am

I was trying to say that moddeling the brain is far, far more complicated than just mapping the neurons. Neurons are living things that have rna synthesis, proteïns etc influencing stuff.
You are right that we can model stuff up to a certain point. To move this back to European politics, we could probably build a model that up to a certain accuracy simulates Theresa May, and predict what decisions she will take. It may actually end up being quite accurate for an outside observer, but that Theresa may model would not experience the world in a similar way as the Theresa may that we currently have. I would be quite hesitant to release it upon the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 20, 2018, 10:34:04 am

One TM PM is more than enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on July 20, 2018, 11:38:56 am

Why? Once we have the first TM-PM build we could easily produce thousands. We could even tweak the settings so that it expresses her defining characteristics more clearly!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 20, 2018, 12:56:44 pm

Quote from: Bralbaard on July 20, 2018, 11:38:56 am

Why? Once we have the first TM-PM build we could easily produce thousands. We could even tweak the settings so that it expresses her defining characteristics more clearly!

We shall abolish the orgasm.  Boris Johnson's photographer is at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards tautologies. There will be no love, except the love of cake and chlorinated chicken. There will be no laughter, except the laugh over Benny Hill reruns. There will be no art, no literature, no science. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Bralbraad — always there will be the intoxication of shitposting, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. If you want a picture of Potato Brexit, imagine two trolls and their sockpuppets trolling each other on an internet forum — forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2018, 11:00:16 am

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6831580/boris-johnson-to-remain-in-his-20million-taxpayer-funded-mansion-for-weeks-despite-resigning-as-foreign-secretary/
In Bojo news, Bojo staying in the mansion you apparently get if you become foreign secretary

Despite having his own house which he's renting

Despite not even being foreign secretary anymore

I get that this is standard politician practice but the fact that it's not even extraordinary makes things even more depressing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 22, 2018, 12:23:05 pm

Dear sweet baby jesus. While The Sun isn't exactly a reliable source, it also doesn't seem entirely out of place for this to be a real thing.

We have grown docile and manageable. Even though we've never won a fight on home soil, the British desperately need to try.  How do we learn to rekindle our fury against the corrupt and greedy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 22, 2018, 01:19:11 pm

I believe we already did that. Its results are most often called "Brexit."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:24:46 pm

I see what you did there.

I also don’t see the difference between the EU political class and the British political class.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 22, 2018, 01:30:15 pm

The British political class are more behoven to us and need to appear to care about us more than the EU ones do. Other than that, not a huge difference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:32:03 pm

Only if you live in England, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 22, 2018, 01:41:03 pm

Not really? The last time I looked into it (around Scot. Referendum time) population percentage and percentage of seats were roughly equal, and there's always the option of redefining constituencies if that changes. Not to mention regional governments.

Feel free to look up current figures, though. I'm on my phone at work so can't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:46:56 pm

Aye, proportionally everything’s relatively alright.

However, there are 533 seats in England, meaning it is feasible for a party to focus only on England and receive the 326 seats needed to become the British government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 22, 2018, 01:48:35 pm

Are you scottish hector13?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:49:33 pm

Biased independence supporter, yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 22, 2018, 01:56:31 pm

For some reason I thought you were argentinian, but the aye sounded either Irish or Scottish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 02:01:52 pm

I do get confused for Mexican online a lot, so I guess that makes sense..?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2018, 02:02:20 pm

I thought you were Trojan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 02:05:32 pm

I do have a weakness for Greek women.

Not a fan of chariots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 22, 2018, 03:41:58 pm

Huh. I'm British, born in Scotland (raised in Cornwall which IS a separate country), but my gran is Belizian so I've got a bit of that hispanic look.  I look forward to the day that I get what I voted for, but that's not happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2018, 05:38:25 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:46:56 pm

Aye, proportionally everything’s relatively alright.

However, there are 533 seats in England, meaning it is feasible for a party to focus only on England and receive the 326 seats needed to become the British government.

Average constituency population by country is 68,736 (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5140846/Do-we-really-need-646-Members-of-Parliament.html)

The English average is 70,231 [As an aside, I wonder what happens to this one if you drop out London]
The Scottish average is 65,444
The Northern Irish average is 64,078
The Welsh average is 55,920

By numbers England is underrepresented in parliament by population, but I also get your argument that a united England could pose a threat to the meaningful participation of the UK sans England in British politics. You've got to balance democratic representation of individuals with democratic representation of nations, as painful as it is in the seuthlands.

I'm not too worried though, since the English never unite, the parties consider English seats as the least cost effective ones to campaign for, and should such an unprecedented situation occur as a lonely English British parliament, conventions and constitutions could be amended without much fuss thanks to the flexibility of the British state - whether MPs decided to do so... Another matter. I pray it will never become a tangible possibility. Even today, Theresa May's government hangs on the thread of the DUP for example. Something which has accosted May to no end. (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/may-wins-parliament-vote-after-bowing-to-brexit-pressure-idUKKBN1K514U) Hilariously, pro-EU and pro-UK Tories both agree that May's paper is shit for the exact same reasons: She sought the obligations of EU membership with none of its benefits

Quote from: hector13 on July 22, 2018, 01:24:46 pm

I see what you did there.

I also don’t see the difference between the EU political class and the British political class.

The difference is the British political class get into British politics to retire in EU politics

Chances are even full Brexit won't even stop them from getting into EU politics

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 07:37:43 am

It depends on the punishment. If it's hanging like in the 1800s, then probably best reserved for Jihadis.

I suspect he didn't consider punishment, though, and was instead suggesting that such people are traitors of a calibre best acknowledged by a law code?


Undemocratically trying to alter the will of the people... that does seem to fit the bill of a traitor, if not quite deserving of the traditional punishment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 07:46:04 am

It's certainly true that such 'remoan' attitudes don't exactly help the national effort.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 25, 2018, 07:50:26 am

I guess that’s what happens when you think that a very slight majority is good reason for doing something unprecedented on a very short time limit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 08:00:56 am

Precisely what happens, yes. Some people seem to think that because their side had a lot of votes it somehow makes defunct the winning side. Alas, not so. In a democracy the understanding is that the majority rules and sets the national policy.

Defying that by crying for a repeat or even actively trying to derail Brexit is traitorous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 08:07:52 am

No, mate. When a referendum is held and you don't like the result, and as such attempt to undermine it in one of a variety of dastardly ways, that is traitorous.

I would thank you not to deliberately misinterpret me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2018, 08:10:27 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 25, 2018, 07:50:26 am

I guess that’s what happens when you think that a very slight majority is good reason for doing something unprecedented on a very short time limit.

Wouldn't you have said the opposite if the Scottoff referendum had been a Leave

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 09:08:34 am

Calm yourself.

And I disagree. It is traitorous. Ask for the terms of Brexit to be altered, ask for new people to negotiate it. I may not be in agreement, but I would understand trying to get the best deal for our combined peoples.

But to stop it is to render the democratic process moot. The people voted on in or out, not in; out; or maybe, we might change our minds later.

As for your YouGov figures, you ommit the 53 per cent who believe it should go ahead.

Edited out some unfortunate phrasing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 25, 2018, 09:13:20 am

This whole absolute majority thing is complete bullshit. I'm not democratically minded at all though, because I think that we, the people, are too easily led and too ridiculously fucking dumb and shortsighted to be allowed to rule ourselves and I think we've proved that point very well of late.

Calling for a second referendum is not traitorous or treasonous because the entire Leave side of the argument was built on tonnes of ridiculous lies, which were only exposed as such to the majority -after- we were done voting.  A vote based on falsehoods cannot be binding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 25, 2018, 09:14:20 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 25, 2018, 09:08:34 am

Calm yourself.

'Chill out dude, I only called you a traitor.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on July 25, 2018, 09:16:24 am

Quote from: Rowanas on July 25, 2018, 09:13:20 am

A vote based on falsehoods cannot be binding.

Why not?

No, really, think about it, why not? It legitimately does reflect the views of the electorate at the time of the vote, and who's to say what is truth and what is falsehood? It could just as easily be the case that the "debunking" is propaganda as that the original statements were. Most likely, both are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 25, 2018, 09:18:20 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 25, 2018, 09:08:34 am

And I disagree. It is traitorous. Ask for the terms of Brexit to be altered, ask for new people to negotiate it. I may not be in agreement, but I would understand trying to get the best deal for our combined peoples.

It is by no standards whatsoever traitorous to believe that Brexit (or any momentous and deeply controversial act) is a mistake and to campaign against such, and only a madman or an imbecile could genuinely believe that. Labelling people you personally or politically disagree with as "traitorous" is a long-standing tradition in political discourse of those without any actual arguments.

or do you fantasize that everyone who thinks that it was a bad idea "doth compass or imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen or of their eldest son and heir"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 09:40:37 am

Quote from: greatorder on July 25, 2018, 09:15:44 am

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2018-03-29/Wells%20Brexit%201-01.jpg

Which 53%

And I'm pissed. Of course I'm going to be pissed. For 2 years I've been called traitorous scum for not immediately abandoning my views and getting 100% behind brexit, now I'm being told I should be imprisoned for it, and you agree with them. I'm sick to the gills of this shit. I'm actually becoming embarrassed to be British. Granted I never took pride in it, I'm not a person that takes pride in that kind of thing, but I was at least thankful to have been born here and not somewhere shittier. Now I'm actually beginning to wish I wasn't. Were I in the position to, I'd happily leave this island. Unfortunately I won't be until I finish university, which will be a couple of years after the Brexit shitstorm happens.

Nowhere did I say that you should be imprisoned. Just that  any action to undermine the nation's decision is traitorous. It is a betrayal of the democratic process to say "nope, we're going to try again and see if this time the results favour me".

Quote

It is by no standards whatsoever traitorous to believe that Brexit (or any momentous and deeply controversial act) is a mistake and to campaign against such, and only a madman or an imbecile could genuinely believe that

Then you have the pleasure of knowing a madman, for I am no imbecile.

If you believe Brexit is calamatous, by all means express that. Do not, however, undermine the democratic will of the people. That seems fairly obviously traitorous to me. Had remain won, I would have been disappointed. Heartily so. Would I have said "no. Do it again."? I think not.

I will not make windows into men's souls, but their actions... those will I observe and judge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 25, 2018, 10:07:26 am

Quote

Would I have said "no. Do it again."? I think not

...in all honesty, if you think Brexiters wouldnt have demanded a new referendum, I think you hold a less than realistic view about your politicians ... and human nature I guess  :P


For that matter it wouldnt even be wrong. People can and do change their minds. Situations evolve. And referendums are limited (that's why they are not the main legislative recourse in western nations). It's ok to have dissenting opinions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2018, 10:17:25 am

Tbf, I misspoke. I would not try again in this decade, and would be more likely to suggest it as time passed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: helmacon on July 25, 2018, 10:41:40 am

Continuing to campaign for an issue after a verdict has been reached at one point is in no way traitorous. In fact, it's quintessentially democratic to champion your ideas for policy to the public.

By your reasoning, the U.S. should have dropped the civil rights campaign after the 3/5 compromise because " the people already made a decision on the issue". So fucking what? The people can change their mind and policy should reflect that if it's happened. If there is sufficient evidence that the public feels differently about this issue now then it's worth voting on again.

Immediately calling for recounts until your side wins is wrong, but so is refusing to revisit a relevent issue because your side won one already and you don't want to risk losing that victory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2018, 10:50:35 am

I think there's an important distinction needs to be done here between normal citizens and people in official capacity of the state, such as government employees and public servants, and what the latter does as private citizens and in the field of administration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2018, 11:04:14 am

Whatever your opinion on how deceitful the other side may be, knowing they hold the same reservations of their other half too, there is no need to go comparing remainers to jihadis. Until we see a Brussels brigade demanding we behead all those who insult Juncker there is just no unironic comparison to be made which isn't intentionally, fruitlessly poisoning dialogue. Also politicians really ought to stop with the twitter soundbites. It's not the appropriate medium for making meaningful announcements.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 25, 2018, 01:15:29 pm

Quote from: scriver on July 25, 2018, 08:10:27 am

Quote from: hector13 on July 25, 2018, 07:50:26 am

I guess that’s what happens when you think that a very slight majority is good reason for doing something unprecedented on a very short time limit.

Wouldn't you have said the opposite if the Scottoff referendum had been a Leave

I would have, yes, but that was a legally binding referendum, as opposed to the opinion poll that was the EU referendum.

Brexitus Maximumus Farage said (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681) that a 52-48 Remain result would mean unfinished business for Leave campaigners. Look how quickly he forgot that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on July 25, 2018, 01:34:16 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 25, 2018, 09:40:37 am

It is a betrayal of the democratic process to say "nope, we're going to try again and see if this time the results favour me".

No it's not really. The referendum was not a legally-binding vote, it was a purely voluntary thing to gauge support for the idea.

51.9% support on a non-binding vote isn't a mandate to force literally anything through and call it "Brexit". It's a mandate to start planning and discussing the details, through consultation.

If they finalized the form Brexit would take, then such a plan should require a second referendum, because nobody got to decide on whether they support a particular form of Brexit. It's like if you took a vote on whether to get pizza or burgers, and the majority said "pizza", then you say "ok, pineapple/anchovy pizzas it is!" then when people object and say that in that case, they might have preferred burgers after all, you say that you're just respecting the original "pizza" vote.

A political party such as Labor could perfectly democratically campaign on a "we're not going to pursue Brexit" platform, and voters are free to support that without "betraying" anything. A key hallmark of democracy is the right of the public to change their minds. That's why you keep voting over and over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on July 25, 2018, 04:35:58 pm

Ah, democracy, where if you don't follow the Will of the Fuhrer Party People you are a traitor and deserve to die or rot for the rest of your life in the oubliette, the clearly superior method, the end of history

Good thing we're not in those evil dictatorships where if you don't follow the will of some crackpot dicator you will die or rot for the rest of your life in the oubliette

Luckily, the perfection of our system is unquestionable and anyone who says otherwise will be bombed, droned and waterboarded into learning to love the big brotherhood democracy gives us

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on July 25, 2018, 06:19:01 pm

I don't have any strong opinion on Brexit (if I wasn't an american and had voted in it, I may have actually voted leave) and I think if you look at the question of referendum validity from a disinterested perspective, many of these arguments don't make sense.

It sounds good that referendums shouldn't be repeated (arguing that this could be abused to repeat it over and over until the "desired" outcome is achieved), but I don't think it's a logically consistent argument. If the first referendum outcome was an accurate representation of majority opinion and a second result were to be just as accurate, then supporters of the first outcome would have little to fear in another vote and the opposition would nothing to gain by it, but this is obviously not a safe assumption and never the case. Really, the people who support the original outcome oppose a second vote because there's a risk the outcome will be different, and the people who oppose the first outcome support a second vote on the chance that it'll be something else. Both are acknowledging that the vote isn't actually all that accurate in the first place, because in addition to major semi-random factors like voter turnout there is distortion from the shadowy influence of various other interests. Especially on a narrow margin, it's known that the vote could've gone either way based on factors that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Neither of these groups are in a position to call whether the first outcome was valid or not, because barring their obvious bias they're both well aware that the result isn't accurate anyway.

The best way of holding referendums isn't to hold a single referendum, it would be to hold three of them and decide the result based on the best two-out-of-three. In the first vote, you have all the influence of complacency, voter apathy, low turnout, etc, with the experts predicting an outcome and all the usual relatively low-intensity campaigning. If it goes that way, whatever, who cares, it'll probably go that way in the second too and the voting will stop with the expected outcome winning. If there's an upset in the first round, suddenly the issue becomes politically charged, and the second vote will be a fierce contest with higher turnout, more information, more discussion, and more popular engagement. If the results after the second vote are then 1-1, the third vote will be the tiebreaker which practically everyone in the country will definitively acknowledge as the vote that settles the issue, and even a narrow margin will be hard to dispute because practically every voter by then will as engaged and aware as they'll ever be of the importance of the outcome (and beyond that, they'll be sick of the issue and few will be able to get support to revisit it for many years).

Not only would this be a better sample statistically speaking, it would itself naturally minimize the factors that distort the outcome and which make it easy to dispute the result when you hold only one vote.

Even though the British government didn't have the foresight to do this, I think it would honestly be fair to hold a second vote on the basis that it would be the definitive vote that settles the issue; the "slippery slope" of holding a vote over and over again just isn't true, because the factors that allow people to (correctly) criticize the first vote as inaccurate and on too slim a margin would not apply in a second vote with higher engagement where everyone is aware of the consequences. It would be ridiculous to think that people would actually call for a third vote if a second Brexit vote still came out in favor of Brexit, if only because people are so damn sick of Brexit talk that they'd rather it just be dealt with already. The only real argument against a second vote is that we should respect the outcome of the first because nobody expected another vote and thus the first is implied to be definitive, or that if you hold two votes it's unfair to favor only the most recent and so a third should be held as well, but nowhere in this can someone seriously claim that the first vote was actually an accurate representation of the "will of the people" or whatever on the slim margin that it got.

Edit:
And to reiterate, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't live in the UK or the EU and may have actually voted leave, just in case people were automatically labeling this a "remoaner" argument or whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2018, 09:33:37 pm

Even if a second referendum were done, the trigger on Article 50 has already been pulled and I don't think there is a way of backing out of it and saying never mind. It's probably almost too late to say 'never mind' anyway.

Though really, if a second referendum were done, it'd be on how soft or hard of a Brexit it'd be and it's far too late in the proccess to do so because they have a functional deadline of December, which is the latest that they can come up with a deal and have the EU parliament vote on it, and you've seen how badly they've been doing the negotiations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 26, 2018, 01:32:08 am

Oh, plus Jacob Rees Mogg, the human scrotum, recently let out that we might not see the benefits, if indeed there are any, in the next 50 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2018, 07:43:13 am

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit"
 - A mangled Roman saying

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 26, 2018, 07:52:11 am

Quote from: scriver on July 26, 2018, 07:43:13 am

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit"
 - A mangled Roman saying

Unless the trees are big enough to sit in their shade.
-mangling the saying even further.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 26, 2018, 09:50:03 am

I'm pretty sure the old Roman saying had nothing to say about fucking it up so badly because you've only got a couple of years left, so fuck the kids.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 26, 2018, 10:12:14 am

And of course, it depends greatly on what exactly the 'tree' is that's being 'planted'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2018, 10:48:27 am

Quote from: Rowanas on July 26, 2018, 09:50:03 am

I'm pretty sure the old Roman saying had nothing to say about fucking it up so badly because you've only got a couple of years left, so fuck the kids.

I've yet to see anything convincing me that to be the case, however. It just seems to be an expression of petty spite from children who is angry mommy and poppy didn't let them have their way.

And by the way. The saying has everything to say about that since that's exactly what it's about.

The way I see it, leaving the EU now, even if it won't give benefit for another 50 years, is planting your olives now for your grandchildren to enjoy. Whereas staying in the EU is giving your olives away to complete strangers and then just naively expecting them to let your grandchildren enjoy the fruits of their labour.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 26, 2018, 11:03:12 am

In all honesty scriver, you put too much stock in the honesty of JRM and co. Particularily when they've flip-flopped so much about this issue.

I'm not saying the EU comission is composed of pure beings, mind you, just that as far as I can tell the lead brexiteers have huge conflicts of interest and have changed their version of events more than once. I dont think they are embarking onto something that will make the UK richer in 50 years. I think that retrotracting their claims and saying that it will totally be worth it in 50 years gives them a ridiculously large margin to change their version.

Plus:  I suspect this is bound to be a very right wing brexit.

No skin off my nose, mind you.  I have no vested interest in any of this.  :P 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2018, 11:15:43 am

Well the choice was between a right wing Brexit and a right wing StayWixIt, so...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 26, 2018, 12:14:49 pm

Oh, it can be worse, I think.
I might be wrong, I concede that. But I think this is not going anywhere good

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 26, 2018, 03:46:51 pm

Quote from: greatorder on July 26, 2018, 03:37:35 pm

Don't worry guys, that we're serious about food stockpiling means you should be relaxed. Don't be worried! (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-says-you-should-take-12980609)

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/voting_machines.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 27, 2018, 04:59:11 am

Tribalisation is a BAD THING. Locking ourselves away from our closest neighbours in order to allow Americanism to flood over our nation is a BAD THING.  This whole right wing shitshow is... a BAD THING.

I genuinely have very little hope for the future and I very much worry about the world my daughter will have to inhabit, although I'm hoping betting that World War 3 will make this whole Brexit thing rather inconsequential.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 27, 2018, 06:54:20 am

"And so long as men die, liberty will never perish."

Hell of a heavy quote, from a comedian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 27, 2018, 02:17:33 pm

Quote from: Reelya on July 25, 2018, 01:34:16 pm

No it's not really. The referendum was not a legally-binding vote, it was a purely voluntary thing to gauge support for the idea.

With respect I disagree. When the day came for us all to vote, we were given two options.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

• Remain a member of the European Union.
• Leave the European Union.

The government made it clear they would implement the decision we made, without reference to continual referendums.

Quote

A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.
The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.
This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.
This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.

This was from Cameron's media blitz, sent via leaflet to every single household in the UK. (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk) You can find more from their speeches.

Yet it is now 2018, and to explain to non-Brits who haven't been drowning in the deluge of coverage this received, or perhaps have forgotten the origins or are unaware of the pitfalls of British politics, it is necessary to look farther back into the distant aeons of 2010.

The year was 2010, some MP's were jailed for exploiting government expenses, Tony Blair survived the Iraq inquiry a free man, Quangos were cut and the Crossbow Cannibal Killer was caught. Prime Minister Gordon Brown, then the leader of Labour Party, lost the general election. There was just one issue: No one had won it either. David Cameron, then the bright leader of the Conservative party, had failed to secure a majority for the Conservative party. In order to form a government and avoid another general election, David Cameron struck a deal with mai waifu, Nick Clegg, then the leader of the Liberal Democrats. That would be the start of the last days you ever saw Cleggers smile, and generally was a bad day for politics as the Liberal Democrats were unceremoniously torn to pieces by their erstwhile allies, their own compromises, mistakes, failings and unfortunate timing of strategy. The liberal democrats sought to turn the UK from a 2 party state into a 3 party state, and while they were to succeed, the third party was to end up being UKIP. Back then I supported Labour, and I had comfortably settled into interacting with those queer North Riverlanders in central London, leaving my quiet gang ridden, malaria infested but homely world of Saffeast, with its empty dockyards and abandoned warehouses or paper mills. It was also the year when the construction of the Shard began, completely shafting all of my travel plans, as it became abundantly clear the mayor of London (then Boris Johnson) did not consider what impact the infernal glass splinter would have on everyone commuting from my area into inner London.

2011: Cameron talks tough about protecting British sovereignty, deploys a veto to stop a Franco-German blueprint for the Eurozone coming to fruition. The European countries line up to vote 26-1 against the UK, thoroughly humiliating the British government within the EU, and within Britain.

And so we come to 2012. One year after David Cameron made his speech saying state multiculturalism had failed, the year where the Times published their report on the attempted coverup of thousands of English children being groomed into sexual slavery by Muslim gangs; British far right, far left & Riot police fight in the streets; 11 Muslim Britons were arrested after using charity donations to fund a planned mass suicide bombing attack; EU migrant dilemma begins, one year until it became the EU migrant crisis; pictures of austerity Portugal, Greece, UK & Poland got juxtaposed next to the €1tn scandal of the EU's generous benefits for its workers - with the UK recommendations for cutting the EU budget going entirely ignored; the UK would come second last in Eurovision; Westminster & Holyrood begin discussing plans for what would become the 2014 Scottish independence referendum; Mock the Week was still funny; thousands of NHS & Defence workers were made redundant; polls find that 56% of Britons would leave the EU if a referendum to leave or stay was held that year; the UK accounts for 1/4 of the EU's entire illegal migrant population; the London 2012 Olympics would occur, I won four tickets to the Marathon in a lottery, I gave one away to some random old lady on the day of the event and she was so happy she cried; a study finds income inequality adjusted for inflation and purchasing power is at its highest since the financial crisis of 2008; local council research found that austerity UK's people live in "despair, isolation & indignity." I believe it was Charlie Brooker who coined the phrase "Oh dearism" in this year, in which everything was so unlimited in its capacity to always get worse that one could only respond with "Oh dear."
They were difficult times, with me and me m8s all joking it's down the road not across the street with 1/5s and all that, with me, my kin & fams and their fam, all living knowing one day we might just lose everything with one wrong letter in the post. People in politics didn't talk about policy, instead they were talking whether the UK would even exist in 10 years. They were simple times, they were 'appy times. People were giving up on any hope for the future of the state of the UK, on any hope for their own future. It was like there were three lots in life: You were a poor White Briton, and you drank and slagged yourself to death, spat on in contempt by the leaders you elected. You were a wealthy White Briton, and you sealed yourself in a gated world of cash and ethical opulence, served by a humble legion. You were a migrant and if you weren't trapped doing the jobs no one else wanted to do, you were getting harnessed to the chariots of the wealthy Whites one way or another.

So you have this fragile government built between an uneasy alliance between neoliberal Tories and liberal Libdems, where losing the confidence of the Libdems or the conservative Tory backbenchers can mean disaster for the government. The people as a whole are struggling, depressed, militant, and the UK itself might even be dissolved. With 1 in 4 MPs being Oxbridgers, 1/3 of all the UK's leaders being Oxbridgers, with 10 top private schools producing 12% of the nation's professional elite... The UK was in and still is in this particularly fucked up intellectual bottleneck. The BBC reported that for example the diplomatic service was 62% Oxbridge, law 58% Oxbridge, half of the UK's top literary figures Oxbridge, 47% of those in financial services or the City Oxbridge & the top echelons of the Civil Service 55% Oxbridge. Another study indicated independent schools made up 7% of school population yet had produced most leading news journalists, medics, chief executives and 70% of barristers and judges. This is important information to remember later. What you need to know is that in 2012, this meant that the majority of the UK's leaders in every manner of public influence was an ideologically coherent, connected network, working with the support of all branches of British governance, administration and influence - literary, news, military, security, judiciary, Commons, Lords, Civil Service, government, opposition, broadcasting, radio, University, finance, industry and naturally, the European Union. What's worse for them, is on that year the rest of the UK was painfully aware of this.

So the Conservatives begin to review their strategy, now faced with no less than two populist parties threatening to overturn the very national and supranational structures which guaranteed their career progression and pensions - the UK and the EU. Of especial relevance to Brexit of course, is that the Tories realized UKIP was not going away. In 2006 Cameron was calling UKIP a bunch of looneys, fruitcases and closet racists, in 2012 the vice-chairman of the Tory party urged Cameron to give Nigel Farage a cabinet seat and make a pact with UKIP, as UKIP had cost the Tories 40 seats in the general election and in doing so cost them a majority. For those who don't know what UKIP were, they were a political missile aimed right at kickstarting the Brexit referendum, and were bleeding support from the Labour and Conservatives' eurosceptic support bases.
Cameron retracted his statement calling UKIP looneys, fruitcases and closet racists, before retracting his retraction that same day - in a move which I believe indicates he considered it for a day before his advisors provided him with a plan to neutralize UKIP.
That plan would inevitably be to promise an EU referendum, neutralize the Tory backbenchers for as long as possible, delay the referendum for as long as possible with EU negotiations, buy enough time to campaign north against the SNP. Win the referendum versus the SNP, return south to campaign against the Tory backbenchers & UKIP, use the Remain win to lock the UK into the EU in perpetuity, secure further integration into the EU in order to ensure Brexit will no longer be a feasible possibility in future.

2014, the plan seemed to be working. The Scottish independence referendum failed in a 10 point gap, which was still far too close for comfort. The failure can be chalked up to several factors. The Westminster 3 all agreed on devolution of powers, the better together campaign successfully stressed the shared history, while the 300 year old union was a status quo considerably more difficult to break for both sentimental and practical reasons. Yet it also showed weaknesses which were to emerge in the Brexit referendum, with Cameron deploying his first usage of project fear, promising fire & brimstone to any Scottish person who dared to vote for independence. The reaction was suitable, with Cameron urging the Scottish to not vote independence "just to fuck the Tories." In short, Cameron did his best to make Scottish independence the most appealing prospect he could, with Nicola Sturgeon later remarking that he better not deploy project fear in the Brexit referendum, as he didn't have a comfortable lead to squander anymore. To make matters worse for Cameron, the media and political punditry predicting that UKIP was a flash in the pan soon to crumble were decisively proven wrong in the 2014 UK European Parliament elections, in which UKIP became the first non-Labour/Tory party to win a UK election in 108 years.
Cameron was now dreadfully certain that UKIP had ceased to be an irrelevant thorn in his side, and was now the single greatest obstacle guaranteeing his career prematurely terminating in the run-up to the 2015 general election. The Conservative party identified its Conservative constituents as a primary threat, the Labour party identified the Labour unions as their primary threat, in ironies which astound none familiar with the ideological cohesion of our British elites. Subsequently whilst the Conservatives sought to marginalize their losses from their hemorrhaging Conservative support, Labour sought to reform their party selection process in order to empower the party and sideline Labour. This meant for the Conservatives, turning Cameron's 2013 proposal for an EU referendum into a "cast-iron pledge" for an EU referendum in 2014. Cynics were concerned with this particular phrasing, as Cameron promised with a "cast-iron pledge" that the UK would have a referendum on signing up to the Lisbon treaty - before no such referendum occurred because PM Gordon Brown signed us up to it before he was removed from power.

It's 2015, hilarity would ensue when the Tories made the mistake of incorporating this pledge into their manifesto, and after an aborted attempt on television by one of Cameron's sacrificial lambs to deny that this pledge was made, the Tories were forced to honour their promise. The UK sighed in collective relief as Ed Miliband failed to become Prime Minister, after Miliband and Cameron attempted to replicate Farage's unique trick of appearing to be a normal British person. The looks of disgust on the dynamic duo's face as the men reared on French champagnes took one sip of beer and shirked in disgust - followed by a smile and thumbs up to the cameras was simply delicious. David Cameron announced that the EU referendum would indeed take place - BUT - first, he would embark upon renegotiation of the UK and the EU's relationship, in an attempt to ostensibly have membership of the EU without rule by the EU. During this time all Tory party members who supported Brexit would not be allowed to campaign for Brexit, in a move which I am sure was merely Cameron's attempt to delay Brexit campaigning.

C'est la vie, that when you lived in a country that was split half and half between Remain and Leave, you had no representation in finance, politics, media or academia. Few can empathize with the pain of 2015, when even if half the country agreed with you, the gatekeepers of culture considered you a savage & backwards enemy, while of the parties who could actually win seats outside of Northern Ireland, you were allowed the choice of voting for the pro-EU SNP, pro-EU Tories, pro-EU Labour, pro-EU Libdems... This was especially harrowing if you voted for the Conservatives, because 56% of your MPs, your Prime Minister and the whole fucking cabinet barring Bojo supported the EU even though 61% of Tory voters supported Leave :/

The men and women who wanted an EU referendum had only one chance to get it: And they had to put into power a pro-EU government to get it no matter what. This meant that all of the restrictions placed upon campaigners, how the referendum would be conducted right down to the debates & wording of the letters, how the government & private sector utilized its resources, how & when pro-Remain & pro-Leave MPs campaigned, when everything would happen - would all be controlled by the head of the Remain campaign. We were all fully aware we were being played like a damn fiddle and walking into a stacked table, but there was literally no other choice. Cameron had taken the genie out of the bottle and it was all we could do to be the electorate of ruin: If Cameron did not deliver, we would ruin his career, and in doing so install the men who would make mockery of his legacy, whoever they may be.
As it stands, Labour would be invaluable in this regard. Having reformed their party leader selection process in order to sideline the Unions, they were astounded to face their own internal revolt. An insignificant candidate who had long been with them suddenly appeared as the frontrunner, the man to lead Labour in opposition to the Conservatives.
That mandem was Jeremy Corbyn.
Corbyn aside, this time is also worthwhile, as it shows that from 2013 onwards it was abundantly clear that the Conservatives were elected in on the promise of delivering the EU referendum and on delivering the result the British electorate chose.
"It is time for the British people to have their say," he said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."

It should come as no surprise that whenever government promised us it was our choice, whenever government promised us this would be a once in a lifetime referendum with the decision being final and the referendum being unique - opinion polls showed Remain winning.
The moment government loses, suddenly it's up to them to vote with their conscience against us. It's up to them to decide that leaving the European Union means staying in the European Union's institutions. It's up to them to seek for more and more referendums.

And that brought us into 2016. After Cameron stopped pro-Leave MPs from campaigning, defined the limits of the Leave campaign whilst utilizing the full resources of every British institution for the Remain campaign, whilst being Prime Minister and promising he would implement the result of the referendum...

Leave won the referendum on a stormy night.

David Cameron quit, one day after saying he wouldn't quit if Leave won.

The rest is history.

You have a Prime Minister elected for promising us that he will respect our right to decide, respect our decision, implement our decision and trigger article 50 if we decide to leave to provide that legal impetus - and then say no! We will not listen to your decision, vote again!

It would've been bloody revolutionary, or revolutionarily bloody cor - after he did his best to promise us he'd respect our decision and lead us through it, only to fuck off literally the day after, salt in the salted wound.


Legally perhaps, you could argue that being possible. Politically, impossible. Going back on your word to gain power and betray your supporters is as treacherous as it gets. Were it only that the public had the means to select political candidates, we would not be in this mess to begin with. Leave voters would not be supported by Remain MPs. The notion that this was merely an opinion poll meant to gauge support for the idea of Brexit is mythical; the Conservatives were elected into power on the basis that they would implement the referendum and subsequently implement the result of the referendum. They were well aware of the popularity for the idea based off of state & private opinion polls, the rise of UKIP threatening their support base, and their subsequent election on the basis of an EU referendum. They may pretend to have forgotten these promises; yet we as a people never will.

Quote from: Reelya on July 25, 2018, 01:34:16 pm

If they finalized the form Brexit would take, then such a plan should require a second referendum, because nobody got to decide on whether they support a particular form of Brexit. It's like if you took a vote on whether to get pizza or burgers, and the majority said "pizza", then you say "ok, pineapple/anchovy pizzas it is!" then when people object and say that in that case, they might have preferred burgers after all, you say that you're just respecting the original "pizza" vote.

Had we been borne into the fray under such a system, Leave never would have won, as I am sure is the intention.
The EU referendum was promised to the UK electorate as a simple decision to be made. Do you wish to remain or leave the European Union. So how would you ensure Leave was never an option? With such a plan it would be fairly simple.

You start with a vote on whether to leave the European Union, with the options to "Leave" or "Remain."
When "Leave" wins, you demand that a second referendum be held which splits "Leave" into several options, all decided by a Government which is pro-Remain, allowing to make every option as palatable as vomit. You levy all of your institutional support and resources to outlast your opposition and once Remain inevitably wins, you conclude your referendum as a great success and continue with EU integration. This is of course ignoring that if "Leave the European Union" is to be split into "Leave the European Union in totality," "Leave this particular European Union Institution X," "Leave this particular European Union Institution Y," "Leave this particular European Union Institution Z," then it stands to reason that Remain must be split into "Remain in the European Union with support for integration," "Remain in the European Union while leaving European Union Institution X,"  "Remain in the European Union while leaving European Union Institution Y," "Remain in the European Union while leaving European Union Institution Z," "Remain in the European Union whilst opposing further integration," with a new referendum any time any such option fails to meet public standards. Of course, if some variant of Leave should subsequently win against all other variants of Leave or Remain, it will not have enough public support to justify its execution - meaning that a vote to Remain is a vote for Remain, and a vote for any Leave is a vote for Remain. With every echelon of British power in support of Remain, there would be no more referendums in favour of Leave, and there would be no recourse left for Leave except depression, rage and rioting. Assuming that such splits could be evenly made, and that they could be held in a referendum, there is still the issue of all of this being done by pro-Remain governance. It seems entirely according to the Remain strategy to attack Leave for having no policy, when Brexit policy has always been conducted by pro-Remain governance deliberately sabotaging itself in order to worsen the prospects of successful Leave, just as they sabotaged the NHS to worsen the prospects of state-managed healthcare.

Quote from: Reelya on July 25, 2018, 01:34:16 pm

A political party such as Labor could perfectly democratically campaign on a "we're not going to pursue Brexit" platform, and voters are free to support that without "betraying" anything. A key hallmark of democracy is the right of the public to change their minds. That's why you keep voting over and over.

The Labour party did perfectly and democratically campaign on "we're not going to pursue Brexit" platform twice, and voters rejected them twice. It is not a hallmark of democracy that you force the public to continually keep voting until they make the choice the establishment desires. In 1992 when Denmark voted against the Maastricht Treaty, they were made to vote again until they voted yes - then the referendums stopped. In 2001 when Ireland voted against the Nice Treaty, they were made to vote again until they voted yes - then the referendums stopped. In 2008 when Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty, they were made to vote again until they voted yes - then the referendums stopped.

In more transparent terms, I wouldn't trust the Government with a rented cock. All those Oxbridge dominated industries of power and influence I listed earlier:
-Government (Cabinet + PM), House of Commons, House of Lords, Literati, Diplomatic Service, Law, Financial Services, City of London, Civil Service, Leading news Journalists, Medics, Chief Executives, Barristers, Judges, Officers, University and so forth - would immediately place all of their support behind each and every successive referendum until they got the result they wanted. Terry down the road who votes Leave may be a sweet lad but times him by a million and they won't be able to outlast the resources pitted against them; Remain would just win by attrition, exhausting their public opposition until they got ousted from power or won. Without a pro-Leave MP in cabinet, let alone as Prime Minister, we'd be facing an even more fucked stacked table. Literally only Corbyn would be left to oppose such nonnery. Just look at the professions by support for Leave or Remain (https://www.economicmodelling.co.uk/2017/03/27/brexit-different-jobs-markets-leave-remain-areas-2/); Metal Workers and Factory Assemblers who support Leave are far less capable of affecting public opinion or funding campaigns than Brokers or Directors who support Remain, while we'd be institutionally fucked if the elected and unelected branches of government were still entirely stacked full of pro-Remain professionals - more referendums where Remain and Leave were led by Remainers? I'd rather die.

And I'm sick of my every vote going towards an MP who is pro-Remain while our negotiations are made into a complete and utter farce. Our Brexit secretary was due to release his own paper outlining British Brexit policy before Theresa May announced her checquers paper - drafted by the civil service, dominated by unelected Oxbridge Remainers, and subsequently saw the UK Brexit department stripped of its authority to negotiate with the EU, with such negotiations being passed onto the pro-EU civil servant Olly Robbins. Government and Civil Service working together to sideline the few ministers that actually represented the choice their constituents voted for is a betrayal for which Theresa May's government will suffer electoral retribution - hilariously the majority of Britons on both aisles support the creation of a new pro-Brexit party and a new anti-Brexit party respectively, pressed out of a dire need to rid Parliament of these sycophants and careerists. Already UKIP's come back from the dead.

For those of you who struggle to envisage how bad things are, and why it is so that Leave supporters are so cautious leaving anything open to "interpretation or consultation" in the hands of the British government:

52% of regular citizens who voted chose "Leave the European Union."
27% of our elected MPs voted chose "Leave the European Union."

Even within the Tory party, the majority of Tory MPs chose Remain.

There is a particularly quaint phrase in British politics. There are those who follow public opinion, and those who guide it. It is after all, perfectly democratic to guide public opinion, having them vote again and again every day until they like it, and once they support your guidance, you are now following public opinion. I despise the phrase.

Quote from: Rowanas on July 27, 2018, 04:59:11 am

Tribalisation is a BAD THING. Locking ourselves away from our closest neighbours in order to allow Americanism to flood over our nation is a BAD THING.  This whole right wing shitshow is... a BAD THING.

I genuinely have very little hope for the future and I very much worry about the world my daughter will have to inhabit, although I'm hoping betting that World War 3 will make this whole Brexit thing rather inconsequential.

I'm a real stickler whenever Buzzfeed Rhetorical style is deployed. This thing happened AND IT'S TERRIBLE. This thing exists AND IT'S AMAZING. This person said that AND HERE'S WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK. We are not a nation of unitary dogma. Be cosmopolitan, be anti-American, be left wing; I only request dialogue, and the permission to think differently.

I have long had no hope for the future, and I still have no hope for the future, especially the future of the UK. Hope is not so useful; ambition is much more useful. The former leads to praying for salvation, leaving you like a raft adrift at sea. The latter leads to planning, arming you with sails, charts equipment and supplies to navigate the currents ahead. I don't think WWIII is likely, rather we shall see more of what we have. An eternal state of global low intensity warfare the world is ignorant & forgetful of. I wish you fare well in the times ahead - may your casks be full of whiskey, your fields full of oats, and your wells full of water.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on July 26, 2018, 11:03:12 am

In all honesty scriver, you put too much stock in the honesty of JRM and co. Particularily when they've flip-flopped so much about this issue.
I'm not saying the EU comission is composed of pure beings, mind you, just that as far as I can tell the lead brexiteers have huge conflicts of interest and have changed their version of events more than once. I dont think they are embarking onto something that will make the UK richer in 50 years. I think that retrotracting their claims and saying that it will totally be worth it in 50 years gives them a ridiculously large margin to change their version.
Plus:  I suspect this is bound to be a very right wing brexit.
No skin off my nose, mind you.  I have no vested interest in any of this.  :P 

JRM is the only one I trust to be sincere in what they are. Bojo is transparently mercenary in nature, jumping at the chance to use the Brexit mandate as his personal war banner to claim the Prime Minister's chair - and unfortunately, we have no recourse because there are no other viable pro-Leave MPs to pick from [except Corbyn hahaha, and Theresa May ought not to forget that]. For clarification, it should be abundantly clear that the people who support Leave are indifferent to the excesses of financial workers being cut when the economic prosperity comes from sold sovereignty and does fuck all for the rest of us left behind. To be frank, it never was a successful argument for the Remainers to complain of their lack of Romanian maids and nannies, when to the rest of us it sounded like they were complaining of having to live like one of us. There is also the issue of how with the UK in the EU, I would not be richer, and in 50 years we'd be the European Union, not the United Kingdom. Better the United Kingdom in my opinion, than the European Union - it is a fool who is bribed by his own money into slavery. Lastly, money is always secondary to Queen, Kin and Country ;]

What's more, I have very little choice in the matter. It's choosing between placing my faith in the hands of the vultures, jackals, mosquitoes, wolves and lions of the UK & European Union, or placing my faith in the hands of the vipers & rattlesnakes of the UK. I am pretty fucked no matter what, but I shall choose the one I can most capably deal with, or at the very least escape or outlive it.

Quote from: greatorder on July 26, 2018, 03:37:35 pm

Don't worry guys, that we're serious about food stockpiling means you should be relaxed. Don't be worried! (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-says-you-should-take-12980609)

As opposed to having no contingencies for food security making you relaxed?


Also apologies in advance for the length of my post. It's been a while since I did story time and I seem to have gotten just a little bit carried away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 27, 2018, 02:32:21 pm

Quote

What's more, I have very little choice in the matter. It's choosing between placing my faith in the hands of the vultures, jackals, mosquitoes, wolves and lions of the UK & European Union, or placing my faith in the hands of the vipers & rattlesnakes of the UK. I am pretty fucked no matter what, but I shall choose the one I can most capably deal with, or at the very least escape or outlive it.

That much I agree. I think at this point this whole thing is driving itself, no matter what any of the supposed actors want. I think there will be a cliffedge brexit in 2019, for better or worse. Best case scenario things are  chaotic for a while but then settle down (I´m kind of leaning on this one right now. I find it hard to believe that things will burst. Then again people probably didnt see the 29 crash coming either). Worst case scenario, don´t worry. I´ll prepare some beef jerky (https://themighty.com/2018/07/study-beef-jerky-cured-meat-mania/) packages and I´ll ask TheDwarf1 to smuggle them to you.

Assuming he has electricity to run his PC, that is. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-no-deal-northern-ireland-eu-withdrawal-electricity-energy-crisis-barge-irish-sea-a8443181.html) But I´m guessing I could smuggle HIM a bike with a dynamo, and THEN he could come pick up the pickled pork, and bring it over to you in one of the electricity barges.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 27, 2018, 02:42:13 pm

aw yiss hit me up with dat meat rations

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 27, 2018, 02:57:51 pm

LW posts an essay in his first post.  His second post is to be overjoyed at meat rations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 27, 2018, 04:50:29 pm

My interpretation of Yin and Yang is being inconsistently combined of two extremes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 08:04:51 am

I’m not gonna quote LW because then my post would be 99% his content, but I broadly agree, with the exception  that trying to cast 50% of the country as Fat-Cat banker elite in ivory towers is patently ridiculous and a cheap rhetorical tactic. Also he forgot the existence of the middle class entirely, but ultimately the point stands in that if you’re gonna do a multiple referendum it has to be fully defined in advance because otherwise you end up with a farcical “vote until you agree with us” situation, because the UK government are a bunch of untrustworthy bastards.

On the other hand, what is your proposed solution to the issue that 30% of MPs elected in general election disagreed with their constituents on the Brexit issue? Have the government fire all Remain MPs even though there’s been a snap election since the vote?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 28, 2018, 10:04:27 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 08:04:51 am

I’m not gonna quote LW because then my post would be 99% his content, but I broadly agree, with the exception  that trying to cast 50% of the country as Fat-Cat banker elite in ivory towers is patently ridiculous and a cheap rhetorical tactic.

I'm not being a dafty, the top of the profession groups I listed probably make up to 1-2% of the UK's population and it should be self-evident I'm not claiming the UK harbours bankers, brokers and barristers in the tens of millions. As far as I know, this is not the case :P I didn't spend all that time writing to be cheap, I should've thought it transparently clear that I was stressing the difference between which faction dominates positions of influence, lending an institutional strategic advantage in matters of democratic campaigning.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 08:04:51 am

Also he forgot the existence of the middle class entirely, but ultimately the point stands in that if you’re gonna do a multiple referendum it has to be fully defined in advance because otherwise you end up with a farcical “vote until you agree with us” situation, because the UK government are a bunch of untrustworthy bastards.

Regarding the middle class, there has been no lapse in memory. The middle class in the UK is temporary, you're either newly affluent and destined to join the upper class, or you're technical middle class in the sense that you're poor and incapable of advancing socially, saving money or purchasing property; especially in regards to increasing one's income faster than inflation or interest rates. I suppose you might refer to the established middle class, but they're moving abroad or dying of old age. Multiple referendums as defined in advance does sound like a just and the only way to have multiple referendums, if such a thing be desirable. Otherwise it's a return to darker days - reminds me of when PMs would just call general elections when their administration presided over times of prosperity, whilst delaying in times of pandemonium.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 08:04:51 am

On the other hand, what is your proposed solution to the issue that 30% of MPs elected in general election disagreed with their constituents on the Brexit issue? Have the government fire all Remain MPs even though there’s been a snap election since the vote?

What could we do? What could we do... I can think of only one thing that could be done immediately. That is to say, there's nothing much you could do right now without horrendously mauling the British parliamentary system to death, which for obvious reasons isn't an appealing option to one concerned with preserving continuities. That also rules out becoming the 51st state of the USA. Didn't stave off one star spangled flag only to raise another over home [A personal union between the House of Windsor and one of the American noble houses would be totally dank though]. Would perhaps reconsider if granted a lifetime supply of bourbon, chicken & freedom. So then that leaves the options of status quo, challenge of confidence, challenge for leadership. Status quo seems like it's going to fall apart just by letting Theresa May dig that hole deeper on her own. Challenge of confidence would likely split the Tory party for a thousand years of darkness, which may be desirable or disadvantageous depending on your viewpoint. Leadership challenge would put Boris Johnson in power, which I'm not sure would change much in the long run, especially since we've got like 7 months to finally Brex the hell out. Theresa May timed her policy change perfectly, as there's now very few options to feasibly replace her without likely handing Westminster to Corbyn in the span of a few weeks. Corbyn's foreign policy makes me clench my anus, so despite his appeal to me, I'd prefer this not happen except as last resort. Best case scenario, Theresa May reverses her policy reversal, and then we can replace her without making the UK asplode after Brexit is Brexitalised.

In the long run getting Boris into the PMs chair, getting JRM into cabinet, getting JRM into the PM's chair, promoting backbenchers into the cabinet, absorbing UKIP into the Conservatives - that'd be a start, but it wouldn't solve the intellectual bottleneck issue much, and you'd still be left with an intellectual clique in government and a rebellious intellectual clique in the backbenches. For that, it'd be a good start to seize the means of selection reform the Conservative party's MP shortlisting process, so instead of having potential candidates screened for their values, intellect and appearance by an old guard of the party who will naturally select for those they believe won't rock the boat, have the shitposting shortlisting be done by local associations drawing from their own local populations. Give it a few generations, you should start seeing a political party which entirely fields candidates who are from their constituency, not transplanted into it. Will they have the same opinions as their voters? I have no idea, but they'll have a good idea what problems and aspirations their constituents have, and they'll likely have an attachment to their constituents which goes beyond just winning votes & minds. Then it would be a matter of expanding the diversity of the civil service, whilst also promoting technical schools, apprenticeships or leadership schemes which allow young people to embark on career paths into specialized jobs or high ranking jobs without having to go to University, and when it comes to University, try to make sure that all of our world leaders don't all just come from two alma maters by promoting the usefulness of all our other Unis. All of that will have to come post-Brexit prolly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 10:48:23 am

Why on earth do you want The Mogg in power? Organising your dream team government based on how much of their multimillion dollar fortune they’ve donated to anti-eu causes seems short sighted seeing as he’s anti-gay, anti-feminism, associated with far right groups, and a member of Cornerstone who switched to the catholics because the Church of England was beginning to smell too liberal for His Toffness

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 28, 2018, 01:54:58 pm

I don't think he was pro-JRM in that little speech there. It sounded like he was proposing a -solution- to the exact question you asked, not a beautiful new world where everyone dances hand-in-hand while trickle-down economics ensure that the vast evil corporations provide decent jobs and meaningful wages to all, regardless of beliefs or circumstances.

EDIT: Jesus fucking christ, there is no hope. I try to be glass-half-full, but this glass is half full of getting raped to death by Satan himself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 30, 2018, 05:04:39 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 10:48:23 am

Why on earth do you want The Mogg in power? Organising your dream team government based on how much of their multimillion dollar fortune they’ve donated to anti-eu causes seems short sighted seeing as he’s anti-gay, anti-feminism, associated with far right groups, and a member of Cornerstone who switched to the catholics because the Church of England was beginning to smell too liberal for His Toffness

Well Rowanas was pretty much on the ball that I was just answering your question, there are no other viable candidates for PM who aren't Remainers or of dubious affiliations like Bojo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/7QMir90.jpg)

Start of a dream team would look something like that, I might finish one later. The only restrictions I put in place were that I could pick anyone for cabinet as long as they weren't fictional and they were from a British or Commonwealth nation, so no Secretary for Work & Pensions Joseph Stalin, Prime Minister Genghis Khan or Chancellor of the Exchequer Mansa Musa of Mali.

Regarding Jacob Rees-Mogg, he's not the first politician to be accused of being anti-this or that, once you observe firsthand the selective application of such labels you lose attachment to their power pretty quickly. Ditto for association with far-right groups, since it's too vague a reason, voting Leave for example was one such issue to fair with the far-right label despite it being supported by half the country. What happens is that as time goes on, if you continually abandon your principles in order to shift leftwards, what was once a central pillar of right-winginess becomes far-right and warrants further leftwards shift, with the end result being you are simply choosing between far-leftism now or tomorrow. Thus when discussing ideas and belief, to only express your notions in the language set by your opposition, they need only define the limits of your language in order to rob you of your ability to meaningfully disagree :(
Hence why I find it's important to be utterly indifferent to the taboo of controversial leaders like Farage, Corbyn or Mogg, since the world without them is just Camerons and Cleggs.
Regarding religion, I dare not presume to wield a man's faith against him. As a matter of fact, he was born & raised Catholic, the notion that he switched denomination for political affinity is a narrative concocted by the same atheists saying Mogg ought to be excommunicated for entirely political purposes. It reeks of "I don't believe in this but maybe if I use this against you I can get you to do what I want." At any rate I am considerably supportive of having our first Catholic Prime Minister since the Reformation, and all I'd expect of him is to separate his belief in Papal infallibility from his duties as one of Caesar's lot. Diversify yo cabinet yo
Regarding Cornerstone, I had never heard of them before until now. Looking them up, while I have my disagreements with their economic policy, wikipedia says their philosophical, cultural and aesthetic views are headed by Roger Scruton, who is a familiar face in the UK I already agree with in large. Here's a BBC documentary by Roger Scruton on aesthetics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc), on why beauty matters. It is useful too in illustrating how Cornerstone went from being received by leftist journalists as maintsream into far-right the moment the Conservative Conservative backbenchers started gaining real influence in the Conservative party. In short, the moment they become an actual political rival, is the moment they begin attracting all the labels which mark them for destruction with the full force of all the anti-groups, when just moments prior they were on daytime television with no protest.

But those are all double-negative reasons for why I'm not not supporting JRM, and not reasons why I'd support JRM for PM. My reservations are simple, he is a former Rothschild banker with economically libertarian tendencies which do alarm me. It is a fairly irreconcilable belief too. Such things as reducing the proportion of consumer income spent on necessities through free trade will increase the disposal income of the middle classes, but what would come of the English countryside? Would those farmers be able to compete with international imports from agricultural giants? Possibly, but there is a considerable likelihood of many of those farmers being put out of business. Presuming such unemployed farmers could be directed to other pursuits I believe this could be a success for the English ecosystem, especially given the dreadful destruction of our wildflower meadows - I find it regrettable that no politician in the UK is conscious of the plight of our bees. Yet I believe also, if we were to force so many of our farmers into unemployment, would we not be forcing the UK into a greater threat of future food insecurity? If so, it would warrant subsidies to keep these non-competitive farms afloat, and I haven't the slightest clue how much that would cost.
On the fundamental level, JRM's proposals to raise tax revenue with which to fund social welfare programs through economic growth delivered via a lowing of income and corporate taxes certainly sounds plausible, yet I fear it doesn't adequately address the issue of trying to operate a democracy under a system of extreme wealth inequality. It could theoretically deliver all the funding needed to operate expensive welfare and healthcare systems, yet I would be conflicted: For what good is it to pursue higher standards of living without addressing the growing power disparity between the immensely wealthy and the rest, that the former can dictate to the latter, provide what is illegal and retract what is legal at a whim? In short, do we strive for a society of citizenry where everyone is poorer but equal & meritocratic, or a society of citizenry where everyone is wealthier but there is a clear discrepancy in power between the new aristocracy, the officer class & and innumerable servant class? It seems all of our leaders are content to sleepwalk into an assured hierarchy, not based off of morality, strength, talent or industriousness, but simply of aggregations of imaginary capital.

There's also something to be said in the naivety of Jacob Rees-Mogg. He is entirely too trusting in the goodness and civility of all of his critics & opponents, and subsequently I wish he would look after his own personal safety considerably more.
Still, I don't intend to wait for King Arthur before I support any politician, or else there'd be no point in observing politics at all. Perfect candidates are once in a millennia types. The qualities which offset my reservations regarding Mogg are:

• Humility
• Patience
• Erudition

-Humility. There is something amusing in how the British people as a whole are immensely humble, to the extent that they sabotage their own prospects of advancing in life. In short, if you asked any Briton throughout the country if they were talented enough to be the Prime Minister, I would bet my money they would tell you no. This does not seem to apply particularly well to our leaders in media, politics, finance & administration, who believe immensely in their own superiority, often in spite of their own glaring limitations. Consequently you end up having British leaders losing situations which they should never have had a chance of losing - consider a recent example, Theresa May blowing a 20 point lead down the well by calling and fighting a political campaign with technical analysis instead of common sense. Jacob Rees-Mogg always self-depreciates, keeping him from this common pitfall of British leadership. There is nothing more to say about this simple quality, as it's the absence of it which is most glaring, while the presence of it is fairly inoffensive. Without humility, there is no way in hell this backbencher would ever have gotten so relevant - the notion that grassroots party polling favour a man who holds no cabinet post as a PM candidate is exceedingly rare in British politics.

-Patience. Jacob Rees-Mogg does not play the game of Milibands, Camerons or Bo Johnsons. He is the only Tory politician in the running for leadership I know of that finds bidding for leadership to be secondary to enacting fundamental change to the Tory party itself, finds rank entirely secondary to power. So for example, instead of seeking to become Prime Minister now with the same eagerness Bojo did from 2015-18, JRM would be entirely content if Theresa May remained in power and simply changed her policy. Rather than merely changing around the cabinet for a few years, JRM encouraged Conservatives to join the Conservative party and seek selection for MP contests. Bojo seems to desire Prime Ministerialship for its own sake, men like JRM seem to understand Prime Ministerialship as just another tool for affecting the world, with the effecting of the world being the fundamental purpose of political action. Put more generously, Bojo wishes to become PM to enact his agenda, JRM will enact his agenda to become PM.

-Erudition. JRM understands fully well how our government and society functions, and has a vision for how it ought to function based off of principles he actually believes in. I greatly desire more politicians who actually believe in things, and aren't just the hollow vessels of think tanks and lobbyists, while his knowledge of the British constitution makes me confident in his ability to actually get things done were he to hold institutional power. He further understands how to raise havoc in government, quell havoc, and understands that to seek Prime Ministerialship now would result in failure and break parliamentary convention.

On the entirely pragmatic level too, Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only confirmed sincere Leave supporter with significant backing within the Conservative party who is interested in becoming Prime Minister at some point in the future. Boris Johnson seems to be a calculative Leave supporter, but he is the only Leave-supporting cabinet minister left who could command any support within the Conservative party, so on that front there is also no other choice in whom to support. If Boris and Mogg do not take up power within the Conservative party, the reigns will fall to the likes of Hammond, and we will still be tangled in the EU one way or another come 2050.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 30, 2018, 05:22:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 28, 2018, 10:04:27 am

[A personal union between the House of Windsor and one of the American noble houses would be totally dank though]

Since we don't have noble titles, who would be considered a 'noble house' would depend on who you ask. There's the political dynasties (which would be the closest to the definition of noble), family owned megacorporations, since corporations are considered people, I guess you might include corporations, theres Hollywood....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 30, 2018, 05:49:52 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 30, 2018, 05:22:22 pm

Since we don't have noble titles, who would be considered a 'noble house' would depend on who you ask. There's the political dynasties (which would be the closest to the definition of noble), family owned megacorporations, since corporations are considered people, I guess you might include corporations, theres Hollywood....

Pick any of the above, however tradition demands that Anglo-Aristocracy & American-Money make marry, while a few families blur the lines between political, media & money dynasties are especially suitable (the Trump, Koch, Newhouse, Roosevelts for example), while some of the old money American houses like the Rockefellers are suitably old and influential to qualify as proper dynasties of a sort. Imo there is a neat third option of making the British Rothschilds and American Rothschilds intermarry and go full Charles II to solidify Anglo-American marriage ties. Marriage between a Royal and an actual Corporation itself would present unique challenges, for example could you produce an heir from a marriage between a Prince and Coca Cola? Would the subsequent heir be a corporation, and could it feasibly claim inheritance of the Crown until it was dissolved?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 30, 2018, 05:55:53 pm

I wasn't being serious about the corporation part. Was just a non-serious segue from megacorporations to the fact that corporations are legally considered 'people', as nonsensical as that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 30, 2018, 06:00:04 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 30, 2018, 05:55:53 pm

I wasn't being serious about the corporation part. Was just a non-serious segue from megacorporations to the fact that corporations are legally considered 'people', as nonsensical as that is.

Can two corporations marry? This is important stuff. You have opened my eyes to the truth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 30, 2018, 06:02:04 pm

Wouldn't that be a merger? Though that's more 'complete assimilation and subsumation of the other' than marriage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 30, 2018, 06:12:19 pm

Corporate Partnership?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 30, 2018, 06:26:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 30, 2018, 06:12:19 pm

Corporate Partnership?

Are subsidiaries the kids then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on July 30, 2018, 07:49:51 pm

i await corporate incest with glee

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on July 31, 2018, 01:27:48 am

Corporate Personhood and Corporate Extraterritoriality are the most terrifying aspects of the future we're barrelling headlong towards. I personally hope that if Corporations are legally recognised as people, they have to be invested in an actual living human. That opens the door for Corporate Assassination - You gank the person, the company has to liquidate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 31, 2018, 04:57:25 am

Liquidate - or reincarnate into the flesh of another living human

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 31, 2018, 04:02:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 31, 2018, 04:57:25 am

Liquidate - or reincarnate into the flesh of another living human

If you kill the Corporate Avatar, your employer becomes the next Corporate Avatar. That is how mergers will work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 01, 2018, 06:41:46 am

It's a bold future, filled with Warriors-esque (the movie) situations with corporate avatars being hunted through the streets by gangs of literal headhunters desperate to make the big merger.

Avataaaars, come out to plaaayeeeaaaayy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 01, 2018, 07:18:02 am

Chief Avatars of the inCorporated flesh find their worth in the eyes of shareholders measured in how many skulls of their enemies they can pin to the spikes protruding from their business armour

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 01, 2018, 08:49:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 01, 2018, 07:18:02 am

Chief Avatars of the inCorporated flesh find their worth in the eyes of shareholders measured in how many skulls of their enemies they can pin to the spikes protruding from their business armour

Business armour, with tieclips that are also ammo clips. The ties themselves are swords, and the collars of their suits have been raised and starched to form impenetrable gorgets.

+1 for this future, i take back everything I said about it being a bad one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 01, 2018, 09:24:25 am

Quote from: Rowanas on August 01, 2018, 08:49:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 01, 2018, 07:18:02 am

Chief Avatars of the inCorporated flesh find their worth in the eyes of shareholders measured in how many skulls of their enemies they can pin to the spikes protruding from their business armour

Business armour, with tieclips that are also ammo clips. The ties themselves are swords, and the collars of their suits have been raised and starched to form impenetrable gorgets.

+1 for this future, i take back everything I said about it being a bad one.

And then Dillards became an armory.

...

This sounds fun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 02, 2018, 02:56:57 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 31, 2018, 04:02:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 31, 2018, 04:57:25 am

Liquidate - or reincarnate into the flesh of another living human

If you kill the Corporate Avatar, your employer becomes the next Corporate Avatar. That is how mergers will work.

What if I have no employer?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 02, 2018, 04:15:18 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on August 02, 2018, 02:56:57 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 31, 2018, 04:02:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 31, 2018, 04:57:25 am

Liquidate - or reincarnate into the flesh of another living human

If you kill the Corporate Avatar, your employer becomes the next Corporate Avatar. That is how mergers will work.

What if I have no employer?

This will be viewed as akin to saying you have no soul.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 02, 2018, 06:43:41 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on August 02, 2018, 02:56:57 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 31, 2018, 04:02:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 31, 2018, 04:57:25 am

Liquidate - or reincarnate into the flesh of another living human

If you kill the Corporate Avatar, your employer becomes the next Corporate Avatar. That is how mergers will work.

What if I have no employer?

how does a man have no mother or father? How can you trust a person who says they do not need to eat or breath? To have no employer is to lack that which makes us people!

Alternatively, you become one of the lonely warriors that straddle the battlefields of Corporate Personhood like a colossus - no one knows why some choose the life, nor do they know how one may attain the murderous prowess required to become... a Sole Trader.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 02, 2018, 10:35:21 pm

Mostly just gotta get real good at murdering corporate masters, I imagine.
Find the Corporate Avatar. Stab it. Absorb all that Corporate Energy not for my company, but for myself only. Drain accounts not into other accounts, but directly into my own wallet. Because I am not beholden to the new Corporate Gods, but only to myself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on August 03, 2018, 12:23:43 am

There can be only one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqcLjcSloXs)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 03, 2018, 08:05:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Worse... The Unemployable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on August 06, 2018, 07:04:20 pm

Quote from: Reelya on August 03, 2018, 08:05:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Worse... The Unemployable.

Worser... The Proletariat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 06, 2018, 09:08:12 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on August 06, 2018, 07:04:20 pm

Quote from: Reelya on August 03, 2018, 08:05:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Worse... The Unemployable.

Worser... The Proletariat.

Worsest... people who willingly go off the grid and attempt to live a self-sufficient lifestyle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 07, 2018, 01:24:01 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 06, 2018, 09:08:12 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on August 06, 2018, 07:04:20 pm

Quote from: Reelya on August 03, 2018, 08:05:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Worse... The Unemployable.

Worser... The Proletariat.

Worsest... people who willingly go off the grid and attempt to live a self-sufficient lifestyle.

The absolute worst (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 07, 2018, 01:28:59 am

God damnit I got got again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 07, 2018, 01:31:58 am

Ah, you lost the game then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 07, 2018, 02:00:24 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 07, 2018, 01:31:58 am

Ah, you lost the game then?

I LOST THE GAME.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: KittyTac on August 07, 2018, 02:10:09 am

I LOST THE GAME.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on August 07, 2018, 03:54:00 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 07, 2018, 01:24:01 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 06, 2018, 09:08:12 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on August 06, 2018, 07:04:20 pm

Quote from: Reelya on August 03, 2018, 08:05:31 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2018, 04:21:28 am

Quote from: scriver on August 02, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Untouchables!

Worse... The Unemployed.

Worse... The Unemployable.

Worser... The Proletariat.

Worsest... people who willingly go off the grid and attempt to live a self-sufficient lifestyle.

The absolute worst (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile)

Oh Poo!


Anyway, in case someone is interested in telling the EU what they think of the daftest thing ever invented* (and is an EU citizen), there's an official survey about it (https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/2018-summertime-arrangements), open until 16 August.

* You know, the thing where the clocks are turned twice a year for no good reason except to mess with people's mental and physical health, aka daylight saving time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 07, 2018, 04:11:04 am

No, see, daylight savings is important. Without government stockpiles, what will we do when the sun turns off for maintenance? Everything would be dark without federal daylight reserves.

I know it's kind of a socialist thing, but if every one of us gives just a little bit of our daylight every year, that adds up to enough daylight to power an entire country for a few weeks, or even months if we're frugally solar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on August 07, 2018, 04:54:12 am

Aren't flashlights for that? I've got at least five. Though I dunno. Maybe they don't have flashlights in places where the sun never sets. Like that place in Spain, Costa del Sol...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 07, 2018, 07:40:53 am

I better click that soon - time is running out on me as an EU citizen!

In other news, I like daylight savings.  Suicide rates increase just after the clocks go forward, freeing up houses and healthcare resources, and then drop after the clocks go back because everyone's happy to get an extra hour of sleep!

It's amazing how fragile we are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 12, 2018, 09:56:25 pm

Isn't the politics thread the 'charged but not flamey' thread?

Anyways, the hostility towards university here in the US (that I've seen anyway) are mainly coming from real or percieved bias against conservatives and liberals and conservatives clashing, don't know how widespread that is in the UK.

In general though, it's a backlash towards those who are seen as the elietes, etc, towards 'liberals in ivory towers that don't understand us'. Kind of an outgrowth of the rural/urban divide too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 12, 2018, 11:33:26 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

I'm at university right now. The most left-leaning, liberal thing I've seen is a lone reference to Trump being the primordial ooze that life emerged from.

Jonothan Haidt (an actual lecturer at a university) discusses this in some video interviews around the place.

According to him, the off-the-rails stuff only happens at residential colleges, and only ones that also have an administration who have pro-active systems to investigate and punish people for microaggressions and the like.

So you had young people crammed into forced accommodation where they have to get along with people for years at a time, and you also have a punishment system for thinking wrong, which is run by the college. A typical investigation system protects the identity of the accuser, to prevent retaliation.

This situation was pretty stable, but then social media got added to the mix. Now, you could anonymously accuse people of thought-crime, cause them to be hauled in for a lengthy official inquisition, but also simultaneously hammer them on social media, which puts immense pressure on the inquisition to find them guilty. This phenomena swept those American colleges in 2013-2014 specifically. Those colleges were caught off-guard: many tried to "appease" the complainers by removing all "offending" things, policing language more aggressively (this is when all the draconian dating rules started appearing for US colleges). Which, predictably only emboldened the complainers to become more aggressive in policing others words, thoughts, and actions.

It's not all colleges, it's just what happens when you have an easily abused "witch hunt" type tribunal system, plus Lord of the Flies type social pressures. It's not even specific to any ideology: if you had conservative residential colleges, along with a tribunal you could report people for being "too liberal" then of course, the same thing would happen: some ultra-conservative zealots would abuse the system to tyrannize the majority and put themselves into a position of power. The group that ends up abusing any complaints procedure is by necessity related to the types of complaints you're allowed to make.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 13, 2018, 01:44:02 am

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

left-leaning liberal

No such thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 13, 2018, 09:22:24 am

Americanistic make-believe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 13, 2018, 10:03:15 am

People should stop listening to Americans. Their culture is toxic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 13, 2018, 11:51:54 am

I have some seriously lacking impulse control at times... Ended up in a friendly and polite discussion on Facebook again.

"If wearing a bikini is illegal in Saudi Arabia, it should be illegal to wear a burqa in Europe! Share if you agree!", the image said. And then I said that's silly and counterproductive. But apparently Norway needs to ban burqas in order to maintain its freedom of expression.


Still waiting to hear how that works, exactly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 13, 2018, 12:20:09 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 13, 2018, 12:14:13 pm

Although it does need decoupling from Islam

That's like saying Christmas need decoupling from Christianity. It doesn't matter if it came from some other religion or culture a thousand years ago, Islam is the main proponent of it today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 13, 2018, 12:38:19 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 13, 2018, 12:14:13 pm

But then it could be that a lot of women, though legally free to do so, can't go against wearing it because of social and cultural pressures (though you can argue this for a lot of things. Why aren't people allowed to go around in the nuddy, for example).

That's the thing though; an outright ban won't magically let these people get an excuse from overbearing family members/"cultural members" letting them walk around outside... They'll just stay inside, because that's the only option left. Gov't won't let them outside with a burqa, family won't let them out without one... So stay inside, and somehow end up with even fewer freedoms than the last place.

As a general rule, people don't really like being oppressed... And it's been my experience that a lot of them will happily shed the burqa (and a number of other hangups) on their own once they realize it's no longer necessary and they feel comfortable enough to be able to do it. Sure, it might take a generation or two, but people really like the freedoms and opportunities of modern society. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of immigrants, many of whom are muslim. I've seen the cultural shift in action, and it's a beautiful thing to see people of their own will and volition realize just how dumb and restrictive many of the things in their past were, and happily embrace a future without them.


Anyways, apparently the image isn't about stopping burqas, it's about sending a message. And I've been given what amounts to the "This is the way it is and I don't care what you say" line, so I think I might as well drop the discussion and drink some more beer instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 13, 2018, 03:07:46 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

I can't help but feel, myself, this is part of the backlash against experts...

You've reminded me of one of the things that made my blood boil the most in the Brexit referendum. Politicians saying "we're tired of listening to experts". THEY'RE FUCKING EXPERTS, YOU VEGETABLE.  EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD, THEIR FIELD SPECIFICALLY BEING ECONOMICS, POLITICS AND HOW RIDICULOUSLY FUCKED WE ARE POST-BREXIT.

I wanted to scream until my head exploded and I could be off this awful rock.

/rant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2018, 06:05:33 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

Asking here because I've a feeling this will turn political(and sticking it in a political thread seems the right idea given that), and I originally saw this on the UK politics subreddit. (I'm beginning to think we should have a sort of "Charged but not flamey" thread)

What is it with the increasing hostility towards university? I'm seeing it more and more, where people think that universities are where the uneducated go to, and (this is where it gets political) left-leaning liberal Scientology-esque headquarters of indoctrination?

One of them takes all of your money and promises to help you learn about yourself whilst being a front for ideological indoctrination, the other is Scientology :P
In all seriousness, Universities are where most uneducated go to... To receive education. Likewise you are incorrect that UK Universities are left-leaning, because they are not left-leaning, they are the nucleus of the entire British left-wing, with 8 out of ten lecturers being left-wing (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/02/eight-ten-british-university-lecturers-left-wing-survey-finds/), and that proportion naturally being even higher in the humanities department. You'd have to be in the engineering department to not notice how the syllabuses are made or which way the wind blows.

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

I'm at university right now. The most left-leaning, liberal thing I've seen is a lone reference to Trump being the primordial ooze that life emerged from. Furthermore, dam near every politician, the world over, is university educated. INCLUDING the right-leaning, conservative/reactionary ones. And universities (excluding the diploma mill style ones) actually require an education.

My Uni was the centre of a Labour think-tank, once held the annual record for exporting British jihadists, was thronged with momentum activists running about attacking leftists for not being leftist enough e.t.c.
It's telling for example in my open days that of the politics societies the student union allowed the marxist soc, fem soc, green, libdem, labour, socialists e.t.c. all tables but not the conservatives, whose society was allowed no table. Most of all my seminars were dominated by 3 or 4 people while the rest sat in silence, too scared to say anything which wouldn't survive intersectionality without controversy. I thoroughly enjoyed this atmosphere, but by no objective measure could you observe this as impartial, anymore than a man whose stepped on a landmine with his left leg is a well-balanced and upright man. The conflict isn't even between right and left wing at University, because the right wing has been so thoroughly disarmed and thrashed in that regard that their presence is pitiful and pathetic. You will find Marxism on the marking syllabuses of GCSEs. It is a conflict between leftist liberals and younger leftists dissatisfied with the old guard's status quo, attacking pioneering progressives for being terfs, zionists, neoliberals, racist e.t.c.
Regarding politicians, there is a clear difference between which politicians went to University, what they studied and how involved they were with campus life. Whether they studied PPE and left more Thatcherite, or they studied Drama and left more Marxist, or they kept their distance from campus life altogether - one's environment in those years does shape things considerably for those in their younger formative years. By contrast mature students who are working a full time job whilst studying for their degree are considerably less affected and involved. And of those who are workmen, it is worth mentioning the likes of Nigel Farage for example, have never been to University. Whether that is because University drills these notions out of students or if University selects against people of those views is up to you to decide, I personally never wrote a right-wing essay in my life out of the certain knowledge it'd be received poorly.

Quote from: greatorder on August 12, 2018, 09:32:21 pm

I can't help but feel, myself, this is part of the backlash against experts that appears to be cropping up in the West. Some idea that they're all idiots that have no idea what they're doing, that they're virtue signallers, that they're working for their own benefit, and that all they do is play identity politics. And since universities churn out experts...

Universities churn out graduates, not experts. A tremendous deal of issue with "experts" is that they are not experts, they are people who are entirely inundated with critical theory yet have never learned by experience or tested the validity of anything they believe in through actual work. Rather like someone with a strategic business management degree who comes up with a 120 point plan for an issue which could be resolved with 1. Otherwise yes, the above points you and I have mentioned are precisely the criticism.

Quote from: scriver on August 13, 2018, 12:20:09 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 13, 2018, 12:14:13 pm

Although it does need decoupling from Islam

That's like saying Christmas need decoupling from Christianity. It doesn't matter if it came from some other religion or culture a thousand years ago, Islam is the main proponent of it today.

It isn't like that at all, Christmas is a holiday spread across all Christian branches and sects. The burqa is an Arab tradition, its enforcement a wahhabi doctrine, and this has caused much consternation to Muslims from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia & Malaysia for example who have faced discrimination for being Ajams. Trying to pretend that Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia represent billions of people is not helpful.

*EDIT

Quote from: Rowanas on August 13, 2018, 03:07:46 pm

You've reminded me of one of the things that made my blood boil the most in the Brexit referendum. Politicians saying "we're tired of listening to experts". THEY'RE FUCKING EXPERTS, YOU VEGETABLE.  EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD, THEIR FIELD SPECIFICALLY BEING ECONOMICS, POLITICS AND HOW RIDICULOUSLY FUCKED WE ARE POST-BREXIT.

I wanted to scream until my head exploded and I could be off this awful rock.

/rant

The bar for an academic expert is terribly low, for you see it's been stocked full of the scions of affluent families who send their kids off to do Politics, Philosophy & Economics to set them up for careers in fields they join at such a young age having never gained any practical or technical knowledge of anything they've done or studied. Plenty of study, research & writing, (if they hadn't been an eternal first year or spent most of their time drinking or hadn't outsourced their work to a 3rd party writer like some sneaky breeki folk do), or if they hadn't graduated after their parents donated generously to the University, and what subsequently do you have? A man in a suit who has plenty of knowledge of untested theories. You wouldn't trust them with your cash and nor I with our country, and it seems altogether idiotic to surrender your own ability to think for yourself in favour of someone who just a few years prior was downing tequila shots off of their roommates arse cheeks.
And let's be frank regarding predictions; at best, you can say they are making stochastic predictions. Which is to say, they are making assessments over possible outcomes and concluding which is the most probable one, but they cannot determine which of these predictions (if any) will be the outcome. Subsequently when experts said not joining the euro would result in the death of the UK economy for example, or when Theresa May determined she would have a landslide victory, or when experts said the Leave vote itself would be the death of the UK economy, that tomorrow will be the beginning of the end for reals this time - it doesn't turn out so. At worse, they're concluding whatever answer their patrons are searching for. Is it wise to be critical of politicians whilst obedient to experts when both are cut from the same cloth?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 13, 2018, 09:20:09 pm

So what do we do when they both say the other is stupid? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 13, 2018, 09:28:42 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 13, 2018, 12:20:09 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 13, 2018, 12:14:13 pm

Although it does need decoupling from Islam

That's like saying Christmas need decoupling from Christianity. It doesn't matter if it came from some other religion or culture a thousand years ago, Islam is the main proponent of it today.

I'm with LW on this. You are universalizing and assuming something that is not actually true.

Also personal opinion, for religiously associated garments in general. I think that if wearing them represents piety then enforcing their wearing kind of undermines the point. It's not a statement of faith or beliefs at that point it's just oppression. It takes away all the meaning. It's life if every American was forced to fly the American flag. It takes away the meaning and makes it a symbol of something bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 13, 2018, 10:19:00 pm

There are a lot of misinformed people out there. For example one Quora question was asking if foreigners in Turkey are required to wear a burqa. Burqas aren't even a part of Turkish history.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 14, 2018, 01:03:39 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2018, 06:05:33 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 13, 2018, 12:20:09 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 13, 2018, 12:14:13 pm

Although it does need decoupling from Islam

That's like saying Christmas need decoupling from Christianity. It doesn't matter if it came from some other religion or culture a thousand years ago, Islam is the main proponent of it today.

It isn't like that at all, Christmas is a holiday spread across all Christian branches and sects. The burqa is an Arab tradition, its enforcement a wahhabi doctrine, and this has caused much consternation to Muslims from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia & Malaysia for example who have faced discrimination for being Ajams. Trying to pretend that Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia represent billions of people is not helpful.

Even setting aside that Saudi Arabian Wahhabism is by far the most influential and dominance-seeking branch of Islam today; you can compartmentalise "Islam" down how much you want, but the fact remains that in the end, it's still a Muslim and more importantly religious source for the custom as it exists in the modern world. Decoupling the custom from the religion is choosing not to understand the how and why of the custom and why people continue to practice it. I chose "Christmas" to counterpart eitb not as a comparison in spread throughout the religion but because it is the go-to example of pagan/non-Abrahamaic stuff that got absorbed into the religion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 14, 2018, 02:19:06 am

I'd simply say that it is a cultural dress which in a great many cases is used as part of religion.

It's not necessarily religious, but it often is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 14, 2018, 03:02:04 am

I’m really not sure what the point of your post is, LW. “Some people trained in political predictions remain inaccurate because people can be hard to predict so therefore all experts are lying elitist hacks and you should listen to your mate joe from the pub instead? That whole post seems to have no ideas behind it other than the bashing of people who know things.

Edit: setting aside the fact that an undergraduate course in something definitely doesn’t make you an ‘expert’ in it by any measure that I’ve heard. “Trained” perhaps

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:08:24 am

Quote from: hector13 on August 13, 2018, 09:20:09 pm

So what do we do when they both say the other is stupid? :P

Agree with both

Quote from: scriver on August 14, 2018, 01:03:39 am

Even setting aside that Saudi Arabian Wahhabism is by far the most influential and dominance-seeking branch of Islam today; you can compartmentalise "Islam" down how much you want, but the fact remains that in the end, it's still a Muslim and more importantly religious source for the custom as it exists in the modern world. Decoupling the custom from the religion is choosing not to understand the how and why of the custom and why people continue to practice it. I chose "Christmas" to counterpart eitb not as a comparison in spread throughout the religion but because it is the go-to example of pagan/non-Abrahamaic stuff that got absorbed into the religion.

For clarification, I do not agree with the notion of decoupling the enforcement of this custom from its religious doctrine, so in that disagreement we are in agreement. For further clarification, Wahhabists are maybe 0.5% of the global Muslim population and are neither the most influential nor the most "dominance-seeking" branch of Islam today, Wahhabism is itself not even a unified branch of Islam. That they are overrepresented in European countries speaks more of Europeans than it does of the global Muslim population. Just saying, we're led by politicians who let Wahhabists run our schools and our countries exported more fighters to Syria than actual Muslim countries. Really gets the noggin joggin

I also do not understand what you mean by "compartmentalise," when it is just a simple reality that you cannot treat such a vast group of people as a homogenous entity any more than you can treat Christians as a homogenous entity. The differences in those who base the beliefs and the doctrines of their faith off of tradition, sola scriptura, interpretations & teachings from clerics, the range in acceptable canon e.t.c. are all immensely varied. Treating it as a "Muslim" custom when it is not enforced as a religious custom to all Muslims not has basis in religious custom to all Muslims renders it grossly unhelpful; it isn't correct and it erases the voices of Muslims in favour of the loudest ones the West deems as Islam's singular representative.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on August 14, 2018, 03:02:04 am

I’m really not sure what the point of your post is, LW. “Some people trained in political predictions remain inaccurate because people can be hard to predict so therefore all experts are lying elitist hacks and you should listen to your mate joe from the pub instead? That whole post seems to have no ideas behind it other than the bashing of people who know things.
Edit: setting aside the fact that an undergraduate course in something definitely doesn’t make you an ‘expert’ in it by any measure that I’ve heard. “Trained” perhaps

Setting aside that we have a pretty straighforward pipeline of PPE and IR students into positions of expertdom; no, my point is simply to state that you should not be wholly obedient of advisors pretending to be executives. Expert advisors have no uniform standards for selection, can be conjured from whole cloth out of private think tanks, have their own agendas, ideological constraints, economic constraints, social constraints, conflicts of interest, human fallibility, sell unfounded analysis treated as Nostradamun prophecy - and to top it all off there's a tremendously dangerous conflation of going to University = knowing things, leading to such awkwardness as men who wrote essays about ethnographic studies believing they know more about such a topic than those who lived the subject themselves. The notion that experience begets no knowledge and that the University is the sole legitimate gatekeeper for intellectualism is a rather recent one. Go to a bricklayer for advice on building houses, go to a jeweler on advice on appraising jewels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 14, 2018, 05:15:38 am

The NHS is beginning to get worried. They are offering relocation bonuses on the order of 30.000GBP to entice people to move.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 14, 2018, 05:20:49 am

Norwegian fishing ministry: "Right, so, this law says that you're not allowed to dump your delousing chemicals within 500 meters of natural spawning grounds."

Norwegian fish farming: "Well, I disagree with your interpretation of the law."

Norwegian fishing ministry: "Oh, okay."


So apparently, fish farms have been dumping their chemicals, predominantly hydrogen peroxide, either in close proximity to or in some cases directly inside of wild spawning grounds, resulting in lots of fuckery including large numbers of shrimp, lobster and krill washing up dead on the shore. This has been going on quite some time, and some of the excuses from this (Norwegian) article (https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/xl/oppdrettsselskap-dumper-kjemikalier-i-viktige-reke--og-fiskefelt-_-pa-tross-av-forbud-1.14094220) are pretty hilarious... When asked about some of the dumping, one of the largest fish farming companies, Marine Harvest, simply said "We disagree with the fishing ministry's interpretation of fishing laws", saying that "Spawning grounds" and "Spawning areas" are completely different terms, and that the law only covers grounds specifically. So dumping within spawning areas is fine, until such a time as the law gets changed.

Now, there's a nugget of truth in there, as "Spawning ground" is a specific term used within the scientific field responsible for defining these boundaries... But it's still pretty sleazy to just say "Yeah, you caught us, but we're not changing until you push a new law with different semantics through".

Other excuses from illegal dumpers include: "The law is too confusing to read" and "Well I told the boat not to dump in that area, but they just wouldn't listen! What can ya do?"


No fines or legal actions have been leveled against the dumpers despite in some cases very clearly breaking the law, but apparently there have been a few internal procedure changes that just coincidentally happened to be enacted right after the news agency came snooping around and asking questions.

In a completely unrelated aside, the spokesperson for one of the companies that directly admitted to dumping in illegal zones has recently been elected to the position of Minister of Fisheries.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:08:24 am

Go to a bricklayer for advice on building houses, go to a jeweler on advice on appraising jewels.

And go to a conman for advice on politics?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:23:54 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 14, 2018, 05:20:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:08:24 am

Go to a bricklayer for advice on building houses, go to a jeweler on advice on appraising jewels.

And go to a conman for advice on politics?

Only if the conman is also blind

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 14, 2018, 06:15:07 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:08:24 am

I also do not understand what you mean by "compartmentalise,"

"To make into smaller categories". Does it mean something else?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 06:24:55 am

Quote from: scriver on August 14, 2018, 06:15:07 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2018, 05:08:24 am

I also do not understand what you mean by "compartmentalise,"

"To make into smaller categories". Does it mean something else?

I am not confused by the literal meaning, rather by your point

*EDIT
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says British Opposition Leader Jeremy Corbyn deserves unequivocal condemnation for Palestinian wreath laying (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45170622)
*double EDIT
Corbyn hits back, saying Netanyahu deserves unequivocal condemnation for killing dozens of Palestinian kids (https://www.timesofisrael.com/striking-back-at-netanyahu-corbyn-says-israel-killed-dozens-of-gaza-kids/)

Rarely do you see spicy diplomatic crises form between a world leader and an opposition leader of another country

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 14, 2018, 08:59:09 am

I have a few significant issues with the IHRA guidelines
- no claiming that any Jew holds Israel or the global jewish diaspora as more important than their home nation.  Apparently you're not allowed to call Jews racist.
- no comparing Jewish actions in Palestine to Nazi actions.  Ok, well if they start gassing the Palestinians or organising death squads, I'ma start comparing them to Nazis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 16, 2018, 07:32:10 am

A more relevant comparison would be between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto situation.

Remember, that the main plan was the plan to relocate Jews to Madagascar, and that plan was only shelved by the Nazi high command in 1942 after it was clear they'd lost North Africa. This "let's gas them all" stuff was never pushed forward as the original plan, it creeps up in stages, with earlier poor treatment like the Warsaw Ghetto and the Madagascar Plan eventually escalating into the Final Solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

So, when someone says (not necessarily about Israel but in general) "but what they're saying/planning/doing isn't as bad as the Nazis", just remember what anybody is saying/planning/doing is never as bad as the Nazis - but "anybody" includes the actual Nazis, who weren't actually "as bad as the Nazis" - until they were. This shit creeps up in stages, so the earlier stages cannot be just dismissed as "not as bad as the Nazis" ... yet.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 16, 2018, 06:41:30 pm

Norwegian Fishery Minister (coincidence, eh?) just had a slight whoopsie when he got caught going to Iran on a "spontaneous vacation" along with his Ms. Iran girlfriend and his government work cell phone. The gov't was not notified that he was going to be going to a foreign country.

He's done the usual "Everyone is against me" and "It's a witch hunt" speeches, then stepped down as minister. His girlfriend has announced that he'll be going to work for her company. But before that, he'll have to be put through a quarantine procedure because, y'know... National security breach and all that.


They've also apparently officially announced a book deal about "This whole ordeal we've been through".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 16, 2018, 06:51:17 pm

Why is  it relevant that a fishery ministerb(of all things) went to Iran.  Esp if his SO is Iranian

Edit:  apparently the guy was a convicted felon and quite controversial beforehand.  The Iran affair was likely the last drop

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 16, 2018, 07:10:21 pm

Basically, he fucked off to a foreign country with not-stellar relations to Norway without informing anyone, while being a person with classified access (he's also basically the second in command for his party), and carrying a phone with a contact list full of other people with classified access, and there's not a whole lot we can do to even figure out if he did sell state secrets to anyone or not.

It's not so much that he specifically did something, as nothing's been proven yet and the investigative department says that it's "Unlikely" he actually did anything particularly nasty... The issue is that he was completely reckless and created a major security risk by just giving zero fucks about anything.


There are also some conspiracy theories surrounding Ms. Iran 2013 Bahareh Letnes, who notably has been very politically active working on Iran-Norway relations and who for some reason owns an import/export company that exports fish and imports "Various things" including natural gas and natural gas accessories, despite being educated as a dental technician... And whether or not she's maybe manipulating the ol' Fishy Minister Per "Looks like a particularly itchy scab" Sandberg for political/economic gain, possibly alongside the Iranian government. But, y'know, nothing proven.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2018, 07:12:40 pm

Quote from: Kagus on August 16, 2018, 06:41:30 pm

The gov't was not notified that he was going to be going to a foreign country.

This, presumably

edit: Apparently Kagus snuck in an answer there without me noticing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 18, 2018, 11:08:49 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-45203576

Hatred runs deep, but nevertheless I have repeatedly failed to understand the Irish Catholic hatred and detestation for the poppy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 18, 2018, 11:13:03 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 18, 2018, 11:08:49 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-45203576

Hatred runs deep, but nevertheless I have repeatedly failed to understand the Irish Catholic hatred and detestation for the poppy.

The continuing dickery of certain Irish elements brings shame on Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 12:41:18 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 18, 2018, 11:08:49 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-45203576

Hatred runs deep, but nevertheless I have repeatedly failed to understand the Irish Catholic hatred and detestation for the poppy.

While I’m loathe to use irony to address a point, it couldn’t possibly be that it’s a symbol celebrating the British military, and they don’t particularly like the British military as a result of things like the Military Reaction Force or the Falls Curfew.

Nah, nothing as simple as thinking that people that were supposed to protect you treat you like shit and loot your house or anything like that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2018, 12:51:30 pm

This line of discusion is going to get ugly fast. Just saying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 18, 2018, 02:45:58 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 12:41:18 pm

While I’m loathe to use irony to address a point, it couldn’t possibly be that it’s a symbol celebrating the British military, and they don’t particularly like the British military as a result of things like the Military Reaction Force or the Falls Curfew.

Nah, nothing as simple as thinking that people that were supposed to protect you treat you like shit and loot your house or anything like that.

It's not a symbol celebrating the British military, it is a symbol of remembrance, a reminder of all the fallen servicemen and women from the Great War onwards. It is probably a distinction irrelevant in the eyes of those who build pyres out of their neighbour's symbols. Curious that they added a Trump flag and an Israel flag to the pyre as well. Adding the specific names of murdered Irishmen? It's a deliberate terror tactic desiring a continuation of war, when the threat of peace seems ever closer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 18, 2018, 03:50:44 pm

My granny laid poppies on her brother's grave not two years ago.

It is more than a "military" symbol, I assure you. Apologetics only stretches so far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 18, 2018, 04:04:45 pm

I always just associate poppies with opium. I'm a bit fucked up in the head, yes.

I don't think a couple wreaths are enough to get high off of, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 18, 2018, 02:45:58 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 12:41:18 pm

While I’m loathe to use irony to address a point, it couldn’t possibly be that it’s a symbol celebrating the British military, and they don’t particularly like the British military as a result of things like the Military Reaction Force or the Falls Curfew.

Nah, nothing as simple as thinking that people that were supposed to protect you treat you like shit and loot your house or anything like that.

It's not a symbol celebrating the British military, it is a symbol of remembrance, a reminder of all the fallen servicemen and women from the Great War onwards. It is probably a distinction irrelevant in the eyes of those who build pyres out of their neighbour's symbols.

It has recently been taken up as a symbol of British nationalism too. Last year (maybe the year before) the home nations’ Football Associations got in a bit of a tizzy over FIFA not allowing them to wear the poppy on their shirts, ‘cause Scotland were playing England in a World Cup qualifier. Cue politicians getting upset over this decision, saying they would support the players in whatever punishment they received from the governing body. Notably (at least according to Beeb) no other country got upset about that, even those from which most of the fighting took place.

There’s also the occasional “this person isn’t wearing a poppy this hates Britain/should be killed, like Moeen Ali, whose poppy fell of but he was called a rancid cunt and worse by various people, or James McClean who received death threats for not wearing a poppy on political grounds - he was raised in an Irish nationalist household and is uncomfortable wearing something that reminds him of the armed forces.

The red poppy does remain the international symbol of remembrance though, I’ll give you that.

Quote

Curious that they added a Trump flag and an Israel flag to the pyre as well. Adding the specific names of murdered Irishmen? It's a deliberate terror tactic desiring a continuation of war, when the threat of peace seems ever closer.

Let’s not pretend this is just a Republican thing, aye? Loyalists do the same shit (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/11/news/calls-for-removal-of-offensive-ballymurphy-massacre-bonfire-slogans-1380288/), as well as burning Irish national flags, Palestinian flags, and images of Che Guevara.

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2018, 11:03:11 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 18, 2018, 12:51:30 pm

This line of discusion is going to get ugly fast. Just saying.

Only if we let it get ugly.

Anyways, a quick scan of the article looks to me like it's just an extension of the Catholic-Protestant (or Protestant-Catholic, if you prefer) conflict that's been going on in Northern Ireland for ages.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 11:07:22 pm

Basically that’s it. It only “ended” (Good Friday Agreement) just under two decades ago, and the political wings of the various paramilitaries still utterly loathe each other, so it’s all fresh in the mind and there are people more than willing to remind folk in case they might forget.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 19, 2018, 03:09:14 am

I'm still convinced that Ireland is just the westernmost country in the middle east...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 19, 2018, 04:28:00 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 19, 2018, 03:09:14 am

I'm still convinced that Ireland is just the westernmost country in the middle east...

Terrorists? Check.
Religious Division? Check.
Funny Accents? Check.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 19, 2018, 06:16:16 am

Ireland is not a country any more than Europe is (though there are definite elements in both aiming in that direction). It is an island with two countries represented; the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom. The problem with the United Kingdom portion is that there is a cultural, political and religious split between those claiming allegiance to each nation.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

Indeed there are, and let none of us dispute it. Indeed, I don't know that anyone did dispute it. This seems to be an element of your posting concerning Northern Ireland, though. If there is something negative about Unionism - say violence during marches - you bring out the scorn:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

When something negative about Republicanism is posted, this being a case in point, it is "but the other side is just as bad, stop picking on the Republicans!"

I fully agree with there being horrible people on both sides. I am a Unionist by dint of my cultural and ancestral association with Britain, as well as the obvious political and economic reasons (though these last two are only benefits, I admit, and I would be a Unionist regardless).

Despite this, I know that the history of the Troubles in Northern Ireland is one of brutality. Horrible, senseless murder on both sides, for little reason other than politics or religion. And that on both sides these issues continue.

I accept this, but given your pattern of "attack Unionism, defend Republicanism", I don't know that you do. I posted an article about the burning of highly potent emotional symbols (and do not try to insinuate that this attack was not intended to be a spiteful emotional assault; with the inclusion of murdered people's names, it blatantly is) and your response is not to criticise, but to defend.

The above article was not posted to prove Unionism to be superior morally; try not to argue as though it were.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 19, 2018, 08:21:27 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 19, 2018, 03:09:14 am

I'm still convinced that Ireland is just the westernmost country in the middle east...

Needs more caves, opium & hot weather

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

It has recently been taken up as a symbol of British nationalism too. Last year (maybe the year before) the home nations’ Football Associations got in a bit of a tizzy over FIFA not allowing them to wear the poppy on their shirts, ‘cause Scotland were playing England in a World Cup qualifier. Cue politicians getting upset over this decision, saying they would support the players in whatever punishment they received from the governing body. Notably (at least according to Beeb) no other country got upset about that, even those from which most of the fighting took place.

???
The Red Poppy hasn't been taken up as a symbol of British nationalism though. Football is not synonymous with nation and the Federation International of Football Associations has no authority to retroactively define a symbol which has commiserated the fallen for a century. I don't think it's fair to say anyone got upset, when the UK FA & Westminster wrote letters to the FIFA informing them of the history of the poppy & asking them to reconsider with the support of our European counterparts. It was a matter which was resolved calmly in civility in football. Nowhere in the entirety of the United Kingdom have I ever seen, at any time in my life, the poppy treated as a symbol of British nationalism.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 19, 2018, 06:16:16 am

Ireland is not a country any more than Europe is (though there are definite elements in both aiming in that direction). It is an island with two countries represented; the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom. The problem with the United Kingdom portion is that there is a cultural, political and religious split between those claiming allegiance to each nation.

That's not entirely true. All of Ireland is united in their view of Westminster's competency ;]

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

There’s also the occasional “this person isn’t wearing a poppy this hates Britain/should be killed, like Moeen Ali, whose poppy fell of but he was called a rancid cunt and worse by various people, or James McClean who received death threats for not wearing a poppy on political grounds - he was raised in an Irish nationalist household and is uncomfortable wearing something that reminds him of the armed forces.

Perhaps it's my fault for not posting a wall of text recently regarding virtue signalling, but I shall be clear that I find virtue signalers to be an old lot.

I don't follow sports for this reason, amongst others. Whether it is cricket or football, a tremendous deal of it has devolved into empty tribalism, diverging people's energies into unproductive ends, making madmen cheer the name of athletes who have nothing to do with the local area they're supposedly representing. Taking these communities and then making them into enemies of their neighbours! It's crazy to think how many more have died by pointless rioting over sports in the UK, while actual travesties are met with silence. You can advocate for the abolishment of Britain but don't you dare say football's not coming home.

Quote

'Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.'

My thoughts on virtue signalers is the same as Christ's on hypocrites. Those for whom remembrance is about loudly proclaiming how their reverence for other's self-sacrifices serves as a suitable moral highground to launch artillery from, are those that have their reward. I have only found sincerity at every remembrance service I have been to, even a humility expressed by those who felt that they deserved no place in public remembrance. To have that humility expressed by young and old alike fills me with considerable hope. Please do take this into account when judging the tens of millions of the United Kingdom based upon the tweets of a dozen. Rancid cunts stink more than clean eggs, and the last thing virtue signalers need is more attention.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

The red poppy does remain the international symbol of remembrance though, I’ll give you that.

Though it's worrying that it 'remains' for now, and is not a given that it shall remain for future immemorial. Seems the legitimacy of any symbol is a fragile thing in today's world.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

Quote

Curious that they added a Trump flag and an Israel flag to the pyre as well. Adding the specific names of murdered Irishmen? It's a deliberate terror tactic desiring a continuation of war, when the threat of peace seems ever closer.

Let’s not pretend this is just a Republican thing, aye? Loyalists do the same shit (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/07/11/news/calls-for-removal-of-offensive-ballymurphy-massacre-bonfire-slogans-1380288/), as well as burning Irish national flags, Palestinian flags, and images of Che Guevara.

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

For clarification, in order of importance:
1. I never made the pretence that this was a Republican thing, one bonfire made by edgelords does not represent the entirety of Ireland. Going "no u" and fueling an escalation of hatred when that is entirely the objective sought by these groups is entirely playing into their narratives. You are under attack, you must attack in kind, whilst the other side says: You are under attack, you must attack in kind.
2. What is the connection being insinuated between the British army, Trump and Israel?
3. That's a flag of ISIS, not Palestine. Which once more raises the question of what connections are being insinuated.

We can't choose what those from our tribes do, anymore than I can stop virtue signalers or British tourists in Spain from representing the UK. But we can choose what we choose to support, tacitly or otherwise. I don't approve of it when "loyalists" do it or when "republicans" do it, blood begets blood, and that's about it really. The discourse of our peoples does not need to be reduced to Trumpist Army Jews vs Communist Republican ISIS. It's thoroughly silly behaviour

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 19, 2018, 09:56:10 am

Quote from: Rowanas on August 19, 2018, 04:28:00 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 19, 2018, 03:09:14 am

I'm still convinced that Ireland is just the westernmost country in the middle east...

Terrorists? Check.
Religious Division? Check.
Funny Accents? Check.

The funny accents is all of Ireland, but the other two are only Northern Ireland and purely exist because they're an occupied territory. Occupations tend to cause this sort of thing. For example, Vietnamese are some of the most chill people you'll ever meet. The Vietcong wouldn't have existed without the French and later Americans screwing around with the place.

Naturally, if the USA had never left Vietnam, we'd be going on about how the Vietnamese are "naturally" belligerent, to explain why Vietnam keeps flaring up in rebellion and terrorist attacks, and not blame the actual occupiers for creating the situation. The occupiers labeling the occupied as "beligerent types" is actually kinda toxic widespread behavior: think how American indians were portrayed as warlike attackers of the "peaceful" settlers, how some white Australians / South Africans bemoan the restless blacks, how we portray the Irish, the Palestinians, or the Vietnamese during the Vietnam war, and on and on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 19, 2018, 11:22:18 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 19, 2018, 06:16:16 am

Ireland is not a country any more than Europe is (though there are definite elements in both aiming in that direction). It is an island with two countries represented; the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom. The problem with the United Kingdom portion is that there is a cultural, political and religious split between those claiming allegiance to each nation.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

Indeed there are, and let none of us dispute it. Indeed, I don't know that anyone did dispute it. This seems to be an element of your posting concerning Northern Ireland, though. If there is something negative about Unionism - say violence during marches - you bring out the scorn:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

When something negative about Republicanism is posted, this being a case in point, it is "but the other side is just as bad, stop picking on the Republicans!"

I fully agree with there being horrible people on both sides. I am a Unionist by dint of my cultural and ancestral association with Britain, as well as the obvious political and economic reasons (though these last two are only benefits, I admit, and I would be a Unionist regardless).

Despite this, I know that the history of the Troubles in Northern Ireland is one of brutality. Horrible, senseless murder on both sides, for little reason other than politics or religion. And that on both sides these issues continue.

I accept this, but given your pattern of "attack Unionism, defend Republicanism", I don't know that you do. I posted an article about the burning of highly potent emotional symbols (and do not try to insinuate that this attack was not intended to be a spiteful emotional assault; with the inclusion of murdered people's names, it blatantly is) and your response is not to criticise, but to defend.

The above article was not posted to prove Unionism to be superior morally; try not to argue as though it were.

Indeed.

I responded to you initially because you said you didn’t understand why a group of people who were horribly mistreated by the British army over a period of decades may have an issue with a symbol associated with the British army, this in spite of you knowing what happened during the Troubles.

In much the same way LW is right to point out my erroneous interpretation of his post, at what point did I say the Republicans were right to do the things they did in the article?

You will note that the quote you mentioned in your post was about the annual Orange Order marches, a religious thing involving some people who choose to use it as a vehicle to indulge their religious hatred, every year. I personally don’t like religion, moreso when it is used to make other groups fearful, even if those happen to be other religious groups. Given the general alignment between politics and religion around the topic of Republicans and Loyalists, what I said was intended as a very generalized comment on what happens every year around the middle of July. Catholics/Republicans know the Protestants/Loyalists are going to march and cheer about a Protestant beating a Catholic hundreds of years ago, and thus both sides feel they have an excuse to go on a bit of a rampage.

I also note you took that quote out of context: smjjames asked what was causing the violence in Derry over a period of days (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7807163#msg7807163), to which I responded with that over-generalized summary of what happens every year around the time of the Twelfth marches. At the time, this caused you to confuse my scorn with religious folk as support for the Republicans (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7809259#msg7809259), a notion which I disabused you of (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155469.msg7809299#msg7809299) shortly thereafter, which appeared to end the discussion.

Consequently I’m confused as to why it’s being brought up seven weeks hence, unbidden, out of ckntext, and previously clarified.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 19, 2018, 02:50:51 pm

Quote from: Reelya on August 19, 2018, 09:56:10 am

The funny accents is all of Ireland, but the other two are only Northern Ireland and purely exist because they're an occupied territory. Occupations tend to cause this sort of thing. For example, Vietnamese are some of the most chill people you'll ever meet. The Vietcong wouldn't have existed without the French and later Americans screwing around with the place.
Naturally, if the USA had never left Vietnam, we'd be going on about how the Vietnamese are "naturally" belligerent, to explain why Vietnam keeps flaring up in rebellion and terrorist attacks, and not blame the actual occupiers for creating the situation. The occupiers labeling the occupied as "beligerent types" is actually kinda toxic widespread behavior: think how American indians were portrayed as warlike attackers of the "peaceful" settlers, how some white Australians / South Africans bemoan the restless blacks, how we portray the Irish, the Palestinians, or the Vietnamese during the Vietnam war, and on and on.

I believe comparison with American experiences with occupation are unhelpful, since American experiences with occupation tend to be filtered through Hollywood and not History :P. Subsequently a great deal of the complexities required to fully grasp why all four factions behave the way they do gets lost. One of the immediate differences is that the American military occupied Vietnam despite the American state or American people having zero ties with Vietnam, while the contemporary states of ROI, NI & UK trace a common descent from Norman invaders 1000 years ago, with said Norman invaders becoming Anglo-Normans and Irish-Normans, becoming eventually English and Irish respectively.
Then you have Irish fighting off some Norman barons while Irish-Norman barons alternated between supporting or fighting off Anglo-Norman attempts to reassert central authority and you see the immediate foundations of a millennia-long trend over conflicting, overlapping loyalties and identities, as divisions between Gaelic Irish, Anglo Irish, Scots Irish and other significant divisions of Irish dealt with their divisions within and between, especially with regard to the differences in region. The British Isles are a small place, with a great deal many people of disparate histories and connections; when it comes to Ireland I am especially loathe to speak of it because the more I learn of it the more I know of my own ignorance regarding which provinces were exceptionally tied to Scotland, or Wales, or England, or France, or were exceptions to the own exceptions they carried, without factoring religious or political affiliations or diaspora international or within the isles.
The other significant difference is that the USA was intervening in a foreign country, whereas the situation in Ireland was twice a civil war, between the unified Irish-British state and the Irish state, and between the Irish factions and their opposing Irish counterparts. Vietnam did not give America its leaders or its officers, its writers or scientists the same way Ireland did to the UK, and at no point in its history were Vietnam and the USA governed under one state even in the broadest sense. Throughout the massive phase of Imperial expansion from 1800-1900, Irish officers, statesmen, literati, judges, soldiers, marines, sailors and so forth were critical supporters of British Imperial expansion, as I stressed before, the situation is not nearly as neat or simple as one would hope it could be, right down to militant nationalists & loyalists attacking their own political representatives for working with their opponents peacefully. Unfortunately the situation is rather more akin to Roman occupation of England than American occupation of Vietnam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 20, 2018, 05:00:32 pm

Spoiler: tfw you date Henry IX of Gloucester (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/VLaKral.jpg)

>my feet hurt
>the hoi polloi probably support these Hanoverian usurpers
>I wish I was at home studying constitutional precedent
>I bet they don't even care about legitimate Stuart succession
>Navy Royal not Royal Navy ok
>Fucking roundheads

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 05:26:35 pm

Oh hey Scottish royals.

That seems a bit unbelievable, though, that there are folks who still believe in the whole divine right thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 20, 2018, 05:34:48 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 05:26:35 pm

Oh hey Scottish royals.

That seems a bit unbelievable, though, that there are folks who still believe in the whole divine right thing.

Excuse me sir do you have time to talk about our lord and saviour anarcho-monarchism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 05:44:42 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 20, 2018, 05:34:48 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 05:26:35 pm

Oh hey Scottish royals.

That seems a bit unbelievable, though, that there are folks who still believe in the whole divine right thing.

Excuse me sir do you have time to talk about our lord and saviour anarcho-monarchism

I have all the time in world. Teach me senpai.

For serious.

Also for serious, ostensibly quite a contradictory philosophy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arcvasti on August 20, 2018, 08:46:20 pm

Presumably anarcho-monarchism is listening to the monarch as long as they're telling you what you want to hear and ignoring them if they don't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 08:55:13 pm

I read on a libertarian website that it’s basically just the same as anarchist-capitalism, and quoted CS Lewis at one point (paraphrased as people who don’t have a king to look up to will look to the rich or the strong or the famous as ideals) in order to make the CEO appear as something to look up to in a near-perfect society of freedoms and such.

Bearing in mind about 2/3 of the article was spent walking the reader through definitions of monarchy that would fit into this at the end. It was actually quite interesting identifying the hoops they were asking me to jump through, I just really was not expecting “the all important CEO will look after us all” at the end on a fucking anarchist website.

I felt dirty so I stopped looking..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 08:56:03 pm

modelling it on anarcho-capitalism, where the centralized state is abolished any everyone is a capitalist, anarcho-monarchism should have no central state, no single monarchy.

Instead, everyone's free to define they're own little kingdoms and fight over the borders. You are the ruler of as much as you can personally grab.

EDIT: note I started writing this before hector13's reply.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 20, 2018, 09:10:15 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 08:55:13 pm

I read on a libertarian website that it’s basically just the same as anarchist-capitalism, and quoted CS Lewis at one point (paraphrased as people who don’t have a king to look up to will look to the rich or the strong or the famous as ideals) in order to make the CEO appear as something to look up to in a near-perfect society of freedoms and such.

Bearing in mind about 2/3 of the article was spent walking the reader through definitions of monarchy that would fit into this at the end. It was actually quite interesting identifying the hoops they were asking me to jump through, I just really was not expecting “the all important CEO will look after us all” at the end on a fucking anarchist website.

I felt dirty so I stopped looking..

You mean there is something even more meme then Anarcho-Capitalism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 09:47:13 pm

Quote from: hector13 on August 20, 2018, 08:55:13 pm

Bearing in mind about 2/3 of the article was spent walking the reader through definitions of monarchy that would fit into this at the end. It was actually quite interesting identifying the hoops they were asking me to jump through, I just really was not expecting “the all important CEO will look after us all” at the end on a fucking anarchist website.

idk, it's perfectly in line with objectivist / libertarian ideas, which are mostly the same crowd as anarch-capitalism.

Through collectivism, lesser men constrain the "great men" like the CEOs from achieving their full greatness. But those constraints include their right to dominate other people. So: it's an "evil" to dominate other people through collective action, but if you are personally dominating other people, then it's "evil" to constrain that. The CEO is a Galt-like figure who cannot be constrained by the rights of others. They are the "natural" and rightful monarchs of anarcho-monarchism.

EDIT: To these people, a guy who personally dominated a harem of sex-slave women is probably looked up to and envied, whereas a sex-slave taking ring is looked down on. (in the first case, it was sheer personal strength and bravery that dominated the wills of the women, in the second, it was collective weakness and too much cowardice to get their own women).

EDIT2: And yep, I didn't even know it, but looked it up, and Ayn Rand believed that (http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/60120/index1.html)

Quote

women are ideally “hero worshippers” who should submit themselves, body and soul, to great men.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on August 20, 2018, 10:55:12 pm

Did somebody say anarcho capitalism?

Quote

As a corollary this means that, in the free society, no man may be saddled with the legal obligation to do anything for another, since that would invade the former's rights; the only legal obligation one man has to another is to respect the other man's rights. Applying our theory to parents and children, this means that a parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child, i.e., to allow it to die. The law, therefore, may not properly compel the parent to feed a child or to keep it alive. (Again, whether or not a parent has a moral rather than a legally enforceable obligation to keep his child alive is a completely separate question.) This rule allows us to solve such vexing questions as: should a parent have the right to allow a deformed baby to die (e.g., by not feeding it)? The answer is of course yes, following a fortiori from the larger right to allow any baby, whether deformed or not, to die. (Though, as we shall see below, in a libertarian society the existence of a free baby market will bring such "neglect" down to a minimum.)

It's not child slavery, maaaaaan, you're just allowed to sell them freely on markets and allow them to die at any time!

Quote

On the other hand, the two other grounds for seizing children from their parents, both coming under the broad rubric of "child neglect," clearly violate parental rights. These are: failure to provide children with the "proper" food, shelter, medical care, or education; and failure to provide children with a "fit environment." It should be clear that both categories, and especially the latter, are vague enough to provide an excuse for the State to seize almost any children

Child abuse? More like CHILD EXCUSE FOR DA GUBBERMINT TO DO BAD THINGS!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on August 20, 2018, 11:43:25 pm

There is something very wrong with the phrase "free baby market." Good god these people.

Where is that from?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 11:53:10 pm

These sorts of systems don't deal well with the concept of children. If babies become a commodity to be produced, sold, bought at the discretion of each citizen, at what age do they cease being commodities? And how do you enforce that without laws or a social contract?

Sure, maybe people will stop abusing children, because children become a commodity and abusing them lowers their resale value. But, you could equally "train" the children in certain (unpleasant) ways and have their resale value increase for a specific "market niche". I wouldn't trust the subset of people willing to buy and sell children on the "free market" to have the children's best interests at heart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Yoink on August 20, 2018, 11:55:38 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 18, 2018, 11:08:49 am

...I have repeatedly failed to understand the Irish Catholic hatred and detestation for the poppy.

I'm no expert, but something something symbol of WW1 something something Easter Rising. Maybe? I dunno.   

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 20, 2018, 11:57:38 pm

I think I've seen that 'free baby market' thing before, basically it's an extreme form of 'the free market will take care of it' since Libertarians want to maximally unleash the free market on everything combined with 'I should be able to do whatever the hell I like, fuck the law in the dark place!'.

No idea where it's originally from though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 21, 2018, 12:03:15 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 20, 2018, 11:57:38 pm

I think I've seen that 'free baby market' thing before, basically it's an extreme form of 'the free market will take care of it' since Libertarians want to maximally unleash the free market on everything combined with 'I should be able to do whatever the hell I like, fuck the law in the dark place!'.

No idea where it's originally from though.

The quote of George_Chickens about the "free baby market" is from Murray Rothbard. Far from being some fringe nutjob writing on a website, he was one of the pre-eminent scholars of the "Austrian School" of Economics, and was, for example, one of the founders of the Cato Institute among many other political things. That's the thinking from the greatest and brightest in the anarcho-capitalist world of thought.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 21, 2018, 12:09:11 am

I wonder if a group of people of significant size has ever actually attempted to put the heavy Libertarianism into practice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on August 21, 2018, 12:16:25 am

It's from 'The Ethics of Liberty', by Rothbard. Chapter 14, to be specific. I'm not sure it's the best example of the ideology or Austrian Economics, as the rationale tends to be, from what I can tell, variants of "actually privatization brings things back to the people by letting them be owned by citizens!" and "deregulation is rational because X Y Z bla bla", not "Hey, I know child abuse is bad, but what if the child consents, though?".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 21, 2018, 12:17:39 am

Well there's that city in India which all the corporations love because it effectively has no city governance. It's an example of a city run by corporations, but it's not really representative, since national companies base themselves there to avoid taxes, but they're still making money off other cities, mainly.

It probably wouldn't scale up in the same way that a "tax haven" or trade-based port city doesn't scale up. You can make one city that runs ok by attracting all the tax dodgers in a nation of 1 billion people, but that doesn't mean that every city could boom by attracting tax dodgers. Ultimately, people somewhere else are footing the bill.

Additionally, it's not like Gurgaon is a paradise. It's a paper-thin "development" where it's nice and pristine, but outside that area it's a toxic dump because nobody could be bothered piping the sewage any further than the edge of town, or paying for water treatment.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gurgaon-the-town-without-a-government-2016-3/?r=AU&IR=T

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on August 21, 2018, 12:23:43 am

Quote from: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 11:53:10 pm

These sorts of systems don't deal well with the concept of children. If babies become a commodity to be produced, sold, bought at the discretion of each citizen, at what age do they cease being commodities? And how do you enforce that without laws or a social contract?

Sure, maybe people will stop abusing children, because children become a commodity and abusing them lowers their resale value. But, you could equally "train" the children in certain (unpleasant) ways and have their resale value increase for a specific "market niche". I wouldn't trust the subset of people willing to buy and sell children on the "free market" to have the children's best interests at heart.

This can be solved by technology. Infants go from commodity to person with rights when their body finishes developing the weapon packages, designed to make it as easy as possible to enforce your own rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on August 21, 2018, 12:28:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on August 21, 2018, 12:09:11 am

I wonder if a group of people of significant size has ever actually attempted to put the heavy Libertarianism into practice.

There have been several "libertarian experiments" in small towns and municipalities in the USA. There was one, I think it was Von Ormy, which completely lacked stable electricity and sewage disposal because they waited for private companies and entrepreneurs to do it for them without providing any incentive for it to happen. Apparently, their attempts to rectify these problems have made it practically impossible for a company to come in and fix it, too, due to an incoherent self designed water system without a centralized source.

Also of note is that the predecessors of these types and their influences, that is, Austrian School economists, were hired in and allowed to economically experiment with the Chilean military dictatorship.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 21, 2018, 12:47:18 am

Quote from: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 08:56:03 pm

Instead, everyone's free to define they're own little kingdoms and fight over the borders. You are the ruler of as much as you can personally grab.

S! M! Å! L! A!
N! D! Småland! (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Småland)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 21, 2018, 01:15:40 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 21, 2018, 12:28:52 am

Also of note is that the predecessors of these types and their influences, that is, Austrian School economists, were hired in and allowed to economically experiment with the Chilean military dictatorship.

Sorry, but I think those were the Chicago Boys group, not the Austrians. Milton Friedman and co.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on August 21, 2018, 02:52:26 am

Quote from: Reelya on August 21, 2018, 01:15:40 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 21, 2018, 12:28:52 am

Also of note is that the predecessors of these types and their influences, that is, Austrian School economists, were hired in and allowed to economically experiment with the Chilean military dictatorship.

Sorry, but I think those were the Chicago Boys group, not the Austrians. Milton Friedman and co.

Yeah, I was misremembering. It was the "Chicago Boys", as they were called, with the blessings of Friedrich Hayek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek#Hayek%27s_views_on_dictatorship) and I think one other major figure of the Austrian School economists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 23, 2018, 07:05:06 am

Haven't we all played enough Bioshock and read enough...Ayn Rand (it causes me physical pain to speak her name out loud, but typing it is okish) to know that anarcho-capitalism as an extreme form of libertarianism is a bloody awful idea from head to toe?  It's just genuinely nihilistic, and the only difference between the most extreme and least extreme libertarianism is in just how nihilistic it is!  Are all morals, social constructs and laws meaningless, or just some of them?

It pleases me that western Europe is (i'm looking at you Scandinavia, you beautiful countries, you), in general, a much more reasonable and more functionally socialist place than most of the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 23, 2018, 07:19:01 am

Less and less every day

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 23, 2018, 07:33:08 am

Quote from: scriver on August 23, 2018, 07:19:01 am

Less and less every day

Don't make me miserable, scriver.  I know, and I thought it while typing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 23, 2018, 07:52:54 am

The double espresso burns with Hellfire as an eerie red glow blurs your vision. Fresh tears flow into your eyes, and you begin to hear the tormented whispers of the Damned. You have done what you knew must be done. The essence of Bewley's Coffee is contained... For now.

You pray that you have become strong enough to contain the Demon and keep it at bay. Although you have been fortified by your quest, you can still feel it clawing his way up from the dark recesses of your bowels.

Fighting to retain control, your thoughts turn toward the ancient mystic lands of West Eire. Perhaps there you will find an answer. Or perhaps, salvation....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 23, 2018, 08:15:55 am

Quote from: Rowanas on August 23, 2018, 07:05:06 am

It pleases me that western Europe is (i'm looking at you Scandinavia, you beautiful countries, you), in general, a much more reasonable and more functionally socialist place than most of the world.

I'd slap down some Norwegian political buffoonery here, but our best and brightest clown got kicked out of government a while back when she figured it'd be a good idea to spread a Facebook image talking about how "Labour is too busy protecting terrorists to care about Norwegian safety!" on the opening day of the movie dramatization of the terrorist attack on Labour's youth activist camp. She will be missed, if only for making absolutely everyone look better by comparison to her.

Right now we just have a high-ranking classified-access minister who snuck off to Iran without saying anything and with an unsecured phone containing personal information of a lot of people/departments in government.

"It's a witch hunt!" he said, when made to step down from his position and be stripped of his security clearance.


We also have an actual card-carrying communist in parliament now, thanks to the last election giving his party enough votes for the first time in history for them to get a single seat. To his credit, the young man's been incredibly busy since getting in! Starting motions for votes of no confidence hither and thither, including the one that finally knocked out the racist old hag mentioned earlier.

...he's still a filthy idealist though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 23, 2018, 09:06:29 am

Sweden in election season, which means it's also politician season. So far two (maybe three?) realmsdaysmen has been forced to step down over corruption allegations. One top-tier name on local voting lists of the Centre Party (formerly very near centre right wing with a heavy countryside focus; nowadays the most right wing party in the Riksdag and extremist neo-liberals) got ousted from the list after it turned out he had a not-so-secret life as a Turkic ultra-nationalist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2018, 04:34:49 pm

SCALLOP WARS (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45337091)
So in a minor but nevertheless highly interesting news of great significance to coastal England, Scotland and France, a clash of 5 English & Scottish scallop trawlers vs 40 smaller French scallop trawlers occurred in the English channel. The clash occurred when the Anglo-Scottish fishers showed up to fish some scallops in the channel, angering the French fishermen who also fish that area. The French fishermen were forbidden to trawl from that area until October by the French government, but no such limitations apply to the British fishers. The French responded by chucking rocks, chains and smoke bombs (petrol bombs? The latter seems to change depending on whether British or French report on it) at the British fishing vessels.

All thoroughly stupid behaviour all round, goes without saying that these sort of disputes ought to be settled out in meeting rooms, not endangering everyone's life at sea. Despite the fairly minor significance of this incident, I believe it will have vastly outsized influence once both sides start calling on their ministers to defend them from Islay to Normandy. Then come the memes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 29, 2018, 04:50:20 pm

First the Cod Wars, now the Scallop Wars... Will British fishing never prevail? Will the switch to chicken tikka masala as official street food be finally set in stone? Will the kippers industry take its last kip?

All this and more, only on The History Channel BBC One and a Half.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 29, 2018, 04:58:33 pm

I thought they won those so called Cod Wars?

Just gonna be another headache among all the other headaches after Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2018, 06:00:50 pm

Nah UK went full retard and lost everything in the Cod Wars, and then compounded its loss even further by joining the EU common fisheries policy. Scallop wars is vastly smaller stakes compared to Cod wars, and is probably more accurately termed as the Scallop Skirmish, but the popular image of the Scallop Skirmish is a bark much louder than its bite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 29, 2018, 06:39:02 pm

Doesnt the french scallop industry fish something like 10 times as much of the little buggers as the british do anyway? And most british catch is just sold back to france anyway. Looks like drum-banging from across the channel to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 29, 2018, 06:48:03 pm

Maybe, but the gist of it seems to be that 'Le crumpeteaters get to fish in there while we can't! Le're steailing oui catch!'* They're even saying in the article that they're accusing the British and Scottish of depleting the catch even though they probably get way more than the British and Scottish do anyway.

*I'll admit that I don't know enough French to make an attempt at bad French, lol. Also, 'crumpeteaters' was just a made up silly insult since I'm not sure what the French use at the British

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2018, 06:49:22 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on August 29, 2018, 06:39:02 pm

Doesnt the french scallop industry fish something like 10 times as much of the little buggers as the british do anyway? And most british catch is just sold back to france anyway. Looks like drum-banging from across the channel to me.

Quote from: beeb

The UK scallop industry is worth £120m and supports 1,350 jobs. About 60% of the catch is exported - with much of it being bought by the French.

To make matters spicier, the conflict took place in international waters. It all looks shady to me though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 29, 2018, 07:34:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2018, 06:49:22 pm

To make matters spicier, the conflict took place in international waters. It all looks shady to me though.

I agree, there´s something fishy about the whole thing. It could be a red herring to distract us from juicier catch. We´re being trolled, folks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 30, 2018, 01:54:21 am

Dammit, you got there before me  :P

The whole thing seems fishy to me anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 30, 2018, 02:03:05 am

...but trolling is already a fishing reference...

...you didn't have to fish out a new one...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 30, 2018, 02:07:21 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 29, 2018, 04:50:20 pm

First the Cod Wars, now the Scallop Wars... Will British fishing never prevail? Will the switch to chicken tikka masala as official street food be finally set in stone? Will the kippers industry take its last kip?

All this and more, only on The History Channel BBC One and a Half.

There was also a "potato war" fought between the Prussians and the Austrians. Later, a Jewish immigrant from Eastern Europe opened the first fried chip shop in London. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The Cod, Scallop and Potato wars were fought so that we could enjoy our fish and chips to this day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Yoink on August 30, 2018, 02:19:52 am

Could we dredge up some more puns?
I have a sinking feeling our supplies might have run dry already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 30, 2018, 05:02:44 am

Dunno about puns but the memes have begun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KWympvM2sU)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 30, 2018, 05:44:26 am

At least you didn't think it was the sound if typing on a keyboard ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on August 30, 2018, 12:22:17 pm

I'm so pleased with the Scallop Skirmish.

Yes, the nice, civilised way to handle these things is to meet in a room over some sandwiches and talk it through.  Sadly, that option is SO FUCKING DULL.  i'm glad they fought on the high seas, ramming each other and throwing shit at people's heads, smashing windows and breaking things.  Hell, i'm glad the French are doing it despite having no right to, because god knows the British can't lift a finger for ourselves these days. We're boring, easily controlled sheep, and we have lost all the nerve we once possessed - all the steel that once ran through our spine.

Bring it on, say I - The fires in our hearts have been unkindled for too long.  It pleases me to see people having a bit of a slap about anything these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 30, 2018, 01:02:05 pm

Quote from: greatorder on August 30, 2018, 05:32:26 am

Quote from: scriver on August 30, 2018, 02:03:05 am

...but trolling is already a fishing reference...

...you didn't have to fish out a new one...

Huh.

Genuinely didn't know that.

Yep. Trolling is a type of fishing where you drag baited hooks along behind a moving boat. The connection to internet trolling should be obvious from the  description.

In Japanese however the term for trolling was just translated to "fishing" in the local language. In a related point, "Kuma" (bear) is a character on 2chan, and when someone is trolling (fishing) he'll appear in the thread going "kuma kuma!" trying to get some of the fish. BTW to also give an indication of how much more toxic 4chan is, in Japan Kuma is just a cute bear who likes fish so he's attracted by the trolls, whereas 4chan turned him into "pedobear" who's attracted by children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 30, 2018, 02:12:10 pm

Wait, so the higher the chan number, the more toxic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on August 30, 2018, 02:23:35 pm

It's much more mainstream too. 2chan reportedly has 10 million daily users out of 130 million Japanese citizens, so a good 8% of the entire country is on there on any particular day. You can imagine if you narrowed that down to 15-30 year olds, a significant chunk of Japanese millenials are chatting on 2chan. It has ratings which exceed television networks.

Compare that to 4chan, which has 8 million monthly users out of the 1.5 billion people in the world who speak English. 4chan really is a grimy little 2chan clone infested by a few weebs and creeps compared to the original chan.

Most people don't know the difference, for example this reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/2wg1kk/japanese_2ch_users_evacuate_to_reddit_make_a/) is saying 2chan users are "evacuating" to reddit. Which assumes 2chan is a small fringe thing, and not a huge text-messaging juggernaut. And some of the comments are saying that reddit would be invaded by Japanese "trolls" now. So they're really assuming it's some small 4chan like thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 30, 2018, 04:59:17 pm

Add it to the long litany of sins which warrant Reddit's long overdue chemotherapy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 30, 2018, 05:03:25 pm

I'm good at chemotherapy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on August 30, 2018, 05:22:15 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 30, 2018, 05:03:25 pm

I'm good at chemotherapy

But will you Make Reddit Great Again?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 30, 2018, 05:40:32 pm

YES! IT SHALL BE THE BIGGEST REDDIT EVER! BELIEVE ME!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 31, 2018, 10:50:22 am

EU offering UK unparalleled partnership if Brexit is concluded amicably (http://uk.businessinsider.com/ap-eu-promises-uk-unparalleled-partnership-for-amicable-brexit-2018-8)

Inb4 Theresa May still fucks it up anyways

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 31, 2018, 10:55:34 am

Tiny article....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 31, 2018, 11:00:41 am

It's not the size of the article that counts, it's how you clickbait it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 31, 2018, 11:25:19 am

It's the best clickbait, a great clickbait, believe me

TBH I think we are pretty much as close to a no deal as we were last week. Well one week closer, actually. There hasnt been any actually change in anyone's position. In no small measure because it's pretty much impossible for anyone in this business to change their position.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 01, 2018, 07:34:59 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45371270

President of self-proclaimed republic of donetsk just got bumped off in a cafe explosion. Both Ukraine and Russia deny any involvement, Ukraine saying it was rebel infighting while Russia saying Ukraine assassinated them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 02, 2018, 12:01:44 am

Ukraine funded rebel infighting is also equally plausible, though the article mentions that Russia likely could be messing with things behind the scenes as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Russia and Ukraine were messing around with the rebels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 02, 2018, 03:38:03 am

(http://puu.sh/BonNI/dcc1b5dde7.jpg)

slow news day for a fender-bender to be *front page bbc news*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2018, 06:27:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 02, 2018, 12:01:44 am

Ukraine funded rebel infighting is also equally plausible, though the article mentions that Russia likely could be messing with things behind the scenes as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Russia and Ukraine were messing around with the rebels.

Undoubtedly, but killing the top rebel is unlikely to be a collab project

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 05, 2018, 07:52:41 am

More cold war sequel news: Two russian agents charged in absentia with carrying out novichok attack by Britgov (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45421445)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 05, 2018, 09:36:03 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 05, 2018, 07:52:41 am

More cold war sequel news: Two russian agents charged in absentia with carrying out novichok attack by Britgov (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45421445)

And it definitely matters.  This isn't as meaningless as scooping up college students on Cathedral Green for smoking some marijuana. Nope.  Definitely not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 07, 2018, 09:45:52 pm

Bad Spanish church art restoration attempt strikes again! (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45455125) Maybe they should like, start hiring the modern day equivalent of Picasso or Michelangelo to do those restorations, or maybe just an expert, to do those restorations, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 07, 2018, 09:47:05 pm

But the most famous one is a tourist attraction! So they’re just trying to emulate that and get some tourist pennies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 07, 2018, 10:08:25 pm

I... like that brightly colored figurine? >.>
It doesn't look horribly mangled or anything. It's just brightly colored. There are certainly worse examples of THIN YOUR PAINTS. This one looks like it was actually done with some care, which is about as much as I'd expect from a non-professional.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 07, 2018, 10:41:44 pm

Quote from: hector13 on September 07, 2018, 09:47:05 pm

But the most famous one is a tourist attraction! So they’re just trying to emulate that and get some tourist pennies.

I  half suspect that might be the case. The one which became a tourist attraction? They made lots of money. So much money that in fact the priest in charge of the church is now in prison after he was found to have embezzled more than 180.000€ (https://www.abc.es/local-aragon/20131202/abci-cura-borja-201312021640.html). Also the media are overeager to report supposed half-assed restorations after the buzz, real or imagined. So yeah, mangling centuries-old heritage goods is the new ice-cube challenge, it seems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 08, 2018, 05:47:06 pm

"Lol we just destroyed priceless heritage WOOPS so dumb come pay us a visit"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on September 08, 2018, 07:04:17 pm

At least this figurine painting at least resembles how stuff was painted in across pretty much across all of history except very recently. Churces were painted in bright gaudy colours exactly like that.

My concern here is the properties of the paints damaging the material of the figurine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 10:50:50 am

OH NO NO NO NO NO (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/22/revealed-jeremy-corbyn-showed-off-naked-diane-abbott-to-impress/)

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn “showed off” a naked Diane Abbott to impress his Left-wing friends when he was a young Labour activist, a new book has revealed.
The Labour leader invited fellow activists to his London flat where they were “shaken” to find Ms Abbott in his bed, one of his friends recalled.

AND THOUGH I WALK THE VALLEY OF DEATH I FEAR NO DOOM FOR I ESCAPE THE HORROR OF THE NOW

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 09, 2018, 11:08:40 am

Corbinned.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 11:37:34 am

Is this the same politician who got stuck with the claim that he stuck his penis into a severed pigs head or something? Or maybe that was a different politician, I forget.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 11:39:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 11:37:34 am

Is this the same politician who got stuck with the claim that he stuck his penis into a severed pigs head or something?

Nah that was Cameron

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 11:45:08 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 11:39:01 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 11:37:34 am

Is this the same politician who got stuck with the claim that he stuck his penis into a severed pigs head or something?

Nah that was Cameron

Right. It simply reminded me of that similarily out there claim.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 09, 2018, 11:46:41 am

He did do it to impress his friends though. If he did it.

Which of course he did. This is English universities we're talking about here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 09, 2018, 12:13:47 pm

Anybody have a good place to watch the Swedish election results? Preferably with a map.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 09, 2018, 12:32:20 pm

Sweden

lol

Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/sep/09/sweden-election-live) has coverage, but no map:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 09, 2018, 12:40:21 pm

I was planning on posting the results when it was over.

I predict the Sweden Democrats becoming the weighmasters of the new government, resulting in a right-wing coalition government between the four parties thay have worked together since the last rwo decades (calling themselves the Alliance) that while they nominally refuse to let SD be a part of it still require SD's blessing to not fall. Then, somewhere down the line, SD will attempt to use that power to pull the rug out from under the coalition and cause a crisis of government with the goal of breaking up the Alliance and then being able to work more closely with the less staunchly neo-liberal parties (which is all parties except the falsely named Centerpartiet, which is the in my opinion furthest right wing (but not the most conservative) lparty in Sweden). Next election after this will see SD grow to second biggest party in the riksdag.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 12:46:47 pm

Quote

The attackers screamed at terrified Emilia Orpana calling her a whore and a racist as she campaigned in Nynäshamn, 35 miles south of Stockholm.

antifa here to save you from pregnant ladies

Quote

When it became clear Ms Orpana was being threatened, members of the other parties present at the polling station came running to help out.

Ms Orpana said: “I feel grateful to my colleagues from the other parties for running over to help.

“It was a fine democratic act. They showed that any act of violence is not acceptable no matter whom you’re voting for.”

Good job Sweden (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1015118/Sweden-Election-2018-pregnant-member-of-Sweden-Democrats-attacked-Sweden-news-latest)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 12:59:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 09, 2018, 12:40:21 pm

I was planning on posting the results when it was over.

I predict the Sweden Democrats becoming the weighmasters of the new government, resulting in a right-wing coalition government between the four parties thay have worked together since the last rwo decades (calling themselves the Alliance) that while they nominally refuse to let SD be a part of it still require SD's blessing to not fall. Then, somewhere down the line, SD will attempt to use that power to pull the rug out from under the coalition and cause a crisis of government with the goal of breaking up the Alliance and then being able to work more closely with the less staunchly neo-liberal parties (which is all parties except the falsely named Centerpartiet, which is the in my opinion furthest right wing (but not the most conservative) lparty in Sweden). Next election after this will see SD grow to second biggest party in the riksdag.

Unless maybe there's a pushback from the Left, as it is here in the US. Then again, the political dynamics are completely different even though they share many of the same base reasons for the rise of populism.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 12:46:47 pm

Quote

The attackers screamed at terrified Emilia Orpana calling her a whore and a racist as she campaigned in Nynäshamn, 35 miles south of Stockholm.

antifa here to save you from pregnant ladies

Quote

When it became clear Ms Orpana was being threatened, members of the other parties present at the polling station came running to help out.

Ms Orpana said: “I feel grateful to my colleagues from the other parties for running over to help.

“It was a fine democratic act. They showed that any act of violence is not acceptable no matter whom you’re voting for.”

Good job Sweden (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1015118/Sweden-Election-2018-pregnant-member-of-Sweden-Democrats-attacked-Sweden-news-latest)

And some guy called another woman, who is from the 'Moderate' party, a 'fascist'. Clearly using the word wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 01:45:51 pm

Everything I don't like is fascism tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 09, 2018, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 12:59:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 09, 2018, 12:40:21 pm

I was planning on posting the results when it was over.

I predict the Sweden Democrats becoming the weighmasters of the new government, resulting in a right-wing coalition government between the four parties thay have worked together since the last rwo decades (calling themselves the Alliance) that while they nominally refuse to let SD be a part of it still require SD's blessing to not fall. Then, somewhere down the line, SD will attempt to use that power to pull the rug out from under the coalition and cause a crisis of government with the goal of breaking up the Alliance and then being able to work more closely with the less staunchly neo-liberal parties (which is all parties except the falsely named Centerpartiet, which is the in my opinion furthest right wing (but not the most conservative) lparty in Sweden). Next election after this will see SD grow to second biggest party in the riksdag.

Unless maybe there's a pushback from the Left, as it is here in the US. Then again, the political dynamics are completely different even though they share many of the same base reasons for the rise of populism.

Unlikely to happen, the growth of SD is a steady trend by now (they're sucking up voters from both the left and the right), and I can't see a situation that would change that except becoming a self-majority government and then being horrible at it. And they don't have enough support to do that by far.

The biggest "left-wing" party is the Social Democrats (S), and they are dwindling because social democratism is dead and they have abandoned it for neoliberalism. There's not going to be any push for left-wing opinions from them, more likely they'll continue to leak disappointed voters to Vänsterpartiet (the Left Party) and SD.

Quote

And some guy called another woman, who is from the 'Moderate' party, a 'fascist'. Clearly using the word wrong.

The Moderates are not moderates.

But they're certainly not fascists either, by far. They're staunch mainline (Swedish mainline) rightwingers, a bit liberal and a bit conservative. Like with the Centre Party, which are nowhere near the centre these days, and the Social Democrats, which are liberals these days, their names are left-overs from a time long gone by.

Calling them fascists is a long-honed tradition, though. Also a remainder from better days.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 09, 2018, 01:45:51 pm

Everything I don't like is fascism tbh

That sounds like fascism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 09, 2018, 03:54:17 pm

The two main blocks are deadlocked for sure. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/sep/09/sweden-election-live?page=with:block-5b9582dee4b044f9d11b8300#block-5b9582dee4b044f9d11b8300) Also, the Green party is on the verge of not getting into Parliament (or rather, the Riksdag) since apparently theres a rule that a party needs at minimum 4% in order to get positions in the proportional system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 09, 2018, 04:00:52 pm

Was just about to link this: With less than 1000 districts to go, this is the result so far (https://www.dn.se/val/), except in Swedish. Also with a interactive map if you scroll down (but remember, Americans, blue is right and red is left here ;) ).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2018, 07:28:07 am

So far my predictions seem correct. White exact result will not be known until Wednesday because of postal and early votes being delayed (and also customary correction checks of all votrs), so far it looks like the left and right-minus-SD is both equalling out at ~40%, and SD becoming the goverment-maker with their 17%.

Only other way is if either of the two largest parties from each wing, the Social Democrats and the Moderates, join up with the other wing. The Moderates refuses to work with the left as long as Vänsterpartiet (Left Party) is part of the goal, and Vänsterpartiet holds 8% the left vote. So what it comes down to is whether the Social Democrats will abandon all pretentious of still being left-wing and join up with their neo-liberal comerades-in-thought on the right or not (Miljöpartiet, the Environment Party, who while they are the most liberally inclined of the "left", are more or less irrelevant because of their meagre 4.5%). Either way, SD stands only to gain because if the Social Democrats refuses to join with the right, SD becomes the only way to secure government, but if S forms a government with any of the right-wing parties then SD will see another wave of disappointed social democrat voters join them.

And if you don't think the Social Democrats stands to loose to SD, well, they're certainly feeling threatened enough over the prospect to let the union whip fly (https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/lo-basen-utan-vara-medlemssamtal-hade-s-tappat-mycket-mer/) (Google translation of article here (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.se&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/lo-basen-utan-vara-medlemssamtal-hade-s-tappat-mycket-mer/&xid=17259,15700021,15700122,15700124,15700149,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjEDz1Lj2QH1HvBZIpGq3Fq9t3MWQ)).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 10, 2018, 07:57:58 am

If the Centre party shifts to the left alliance then they'd have just enough votes to form government, so that's another scenario which excludes SD.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2018, 08:10:08 am

The Centre Party is the most right wing party in the riksdag, full of extremist neo-liberal zealots, and it'll be a far fetch before I see them working with the Left. Which would leave them 28.6÷8.4+4.3=41.3% (including the Environment Party), so they'd still need the Moderates on their side (which would make it the S-joins-the-right scenario i outlined above).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 10, 2018, 08:11:49 am

What happens if a majority isn’t formed? Minority government or new polls?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2018, 09:08:52 am

Minority governments are legally possible (if a majority of parliament can agree on voting it in, and it can then be dismantled if it looses that support) but not practically feasible in the current political climate, as it would hinge on the support of either SD or the largest party across the isle (S or M). SD is populist to the bone and has outright said that they will break a government if they don't to influence things (in particular, immigracy politics). I still think the right-wing coalition ruling with the support of SD is the way this will turn out, but I certainly understand why anyone would be leery of basing their rule on the support of a party that has the stance of "lol we're totally going to stab this government in the back you if it suits us lol".

As for M joining the left side (S+MP+M, without the Left Party), well, when the current government formed a minority government in 2014, the right-wing collaboration, "the Alliance" (their choice of name) agreed that they would concede and not threaten the gov in order to keep SD frmbeing the weighmaster (they called the agreement called the "December Agreement"). They then regretted that dearly and the internal disagreement over this issue and the feeling of not being able to criticise the government nearly broke "the Alliance" apart, leaving them not forming a combined coalition platform in this election, but instead running as four separate-but-with-related-interests-parties again. Since "the Alliance" has been widely credited for being able to break the iron grip the Social Democrats have had on the rule for like 50-80 years or so, the breakdown of it was harshly criticised and was announced being the reason why the right would lose this election even before the election season began, especially from the inside of the Moderates (as they are the power party of the Alliance and basically decided everything, so the failure of the Alliance felt basically like them losing power). So we're at the point where any assent to the lefties will be seen in very bad light on the right, even if it is more of a compromise than the concession the December Agreement was. As such it is unlikely they will support a left-wing government.

As for S, I don't think them supporting a right-wing minority government is as unfeasible - but it would likely have the same effects on their voter support as if they outright joined a right-wing government. Ie, SD walks away with a whole chunk of their voters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 11, 2018, 07:53:58 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/3R8facP.jpg)

Some useful data regarding the population crisis of Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 11, 2018, 09:12:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 11, 2018, 07:53:58 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/3R8facP.jpg)

Some useful data regarding the population crisis of Europe

That gave me a solid little chuckle there. Glad my boss isn't in the office.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 07:28:19 am

And lo, the EU sends us back into the Dark Ages. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-copyright/eu-lawmakers-agree-common-stand-on-copyright-reforms-idUSKCN1LS1QR)

Thank you, EU, for cementing EU-skepticism in my mind, you vile cretins.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 07:36:50 am

No it's okay the French knows better

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 12, 2018, 07:41:24 am

So begins the age of gorilla memefare

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 07:48:30 am

They fucking applauded it, too. (https://streamable.com/l3ml8)

"Thunderous applause." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgxZr6LLS34)

Ceterum censeo Unionem Europaeam esse delendam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 12, 2018, 07:49:45 am

UNLIMITED LIABILITY, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHH

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 12, 2018, 08:31:39 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 12, 2018, 07:41:24 am

So begins the age of gorilla memefare

Dicks out again? Welp...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 08:36:57 am

Quote from: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 07:28:19 am

And lo, the EU sends us back into the Dark Ages. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-copyright/eu-lawmakers-agree-common-stand-on-copyright-reforms-idUSKCN1LS1QR)

On the face of it, it doesn't look like a bad idea. Anyone care to elaborate why they think it isn't?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 12, 2018, 08:43:25 am

Quote

lawmaker Julia Reda from the European Pirate Party, who had favored more moderate reforms, said changes to a previously tough line adopted by a key parliamentary committee were merely cosmetic and two measures could endanger the freedom of the internet.

One could force Google, Microsoft and others to pay publishers for displaying news snippets. The other would require online platforms such as YouTube, GitHub, and Instagram to install filters to prevent users from uploading copyrighted materials, could endanger a free internet.

Stupid bits in bold. Tech giants are no saints but I see little point in appeasing copyright trolls.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 08:52:26 am

By 'freedom of internet' the Pirate Party spokesman means 'freedom to pirate somebody else's intellectual work', I presume? Is that a good thing, though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 12, 2018, 08:55:06 am

Another law being passed, or considered (i'm not sure of the status right now), is one that would force all streaming services in Europe to offer 30% native content. For example, 30% of Netflix's catalogue offered to a Hungarian would need to be Hungarian movies and TV.

This one is likely to backfire badly. You can increase the native-percentage easily by merely restricting content - having less shows/movies in general. So, for Hungarians, you just offer them a much more restricted palate of international choices (remove anything more niche, and only offer mass-appeal mainstream stuff), while funding the absolute cheapest possible local content to pad out the local-content requirements.

For example, if you have 100 shows of which 15 are Hungarian, but you're told you need 30% Hungarian, the best solution is to start cutting shows out. Remove the least-watched (in Hungary) 50 shows (or put them on a rotating schedule which limits your choices), and now your selection is 30% Hungarian.

This indicates a problem with quota systems in general. If you apply a quota, then you need to cut things that are popular but don't fit in the quota - so you remove the worst rated American shows from your selection to make room for Hungarian-local stuff. But then ... the Hungarian-local stuff you want to add won't be top-notch fare, it will be stuff that you otherwise didn't want, so you'll be picking up previously rejected material. This won't "level the playing field" it will create a quality gulf between the American content and Hungarian content that's offered in the selection.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 08:57:11 am

Quote from: Reelya on September 12, 2018, 08:55:06 am

Another law being passed, or considered (i'm not sure of the status right now), is one that would force all streaming services in Europe to offer 30% native content. For example, 30% of Netflix's catalogue offered to a Hungarian would need to be Hungarian movies and TV.

One would think it would make Netflix lineup in Luxembourg somewhat restricted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 12, 2018, 09:16:32 am

It can be all-European content of 30%, however each nation has the power to force the entire 30% to be local-nation content:

Quote

Viola said that, starting in December, the EU’s 28 member states would have 20 months to apply these new norms and that countries “could choose to raise the quota from the 30% minimum to 40%.” EU nations can each choose whether the 30% includes sub-quotas on original productions in their countries and whether they want to follow the German model of adding a small surcharge on streamer subscription fees to support the national production fund.

So, a nation such as Hungary would need to decide whether 30% of Netflix being made in "Europe in general" was enough, or whether to increase a minimum-percentage to be Hungary-specific. I'd argue that it would always look enticing to increase that local-country mandate, since that means more jobs in their own country, for very little effort on behalf of the government. So, if they make you have 20% Hungarian content, then they'll think "21% would be better" and want to keep pushing that to the limit. The end result could be for example, that the types of things you're allowed to watch in different EU nations varies wildly, so in Hungary the number of French films you can see would decrease because that's now competing-for-quota with local Hungarian shows, whereas American shows are in the 70% of shows that are non-quota.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 09:43:59 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 08:52:26 am

By 'freedom of internet' the Pirate Party spokesman means 'freedom to pirate somebody else's intellectual work', I presume? Is that a good thing, though?

More like freedom to communicate over the internet. What the directive means is that websites will be held liable for copyright-infringing user-generated content, whether it is text, links, images, audio or video. Even worse, they will be required to prevent the upload of this content or face a fine.

So what does this mean for the average user? It means that the companies that run these websites will begin filtering uploads automatically which not even mighty Google has succeeded in doing without unacceptable false positives (and false negatives are rampant as well). The requirement to prevent the upload also means even more incentive for aggressive (read: faulty) filtering. It's shoot first, ask questions later but only if you have the money to force the lawsuit.

Article 11 doesn't make things better either as now even fewer news article will enter users' information streams. The newspapers are hoping to get more money from this, but in reality they will see fewer and fewer readers because the potential readers can't find the articles in a reasonable manner. Imagine the Internet without search engines. How are you going to find the information you seek? With article 11 this (https://imgur.com/a/jU46RA0) is what you'll be dealing with, assuming Google decides to even show the links. Not very informative, is it?

But worst of all will be the future of user-generated content dissemination. Want to discuss a news article on Reddit? Sorry! Reddit is not going to pay a license fee to let you link that article. Oh, you want post a snippet of an article so people can understand what you're talking about? Whoops, that may or may not be a copyright violation, guess the world will not be seeing your post today. Oh, and surprise instaban for infringing copyright. What's this, a Downfall meme about EU copyright reform? Fegelein.exe says it's 95% copyright infringing--BEFEHL IST BEFEHL! Instaban.

Not a very promising future, I assure you.

Ceterum censeo Unionem Europaeam esse delendam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 09:48:01 am

What about impinging on the rights of people in other countries not in the EU? It's not going to be contained to the EU. Do you think Google would restrict it to the EU? Probably not. It'd be easier to apply to all, which is where the conflict comes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 09:50:06 am

I wonder if this will impact Swedish library and fair use for education laws. Those are very dear to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 11:19:37 am

7 out of 12 my country's MEPs voted for it... Fucking hell.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redditmedia.com/3-xx36zVAZso8a6j82GpQPzLCZGUPSWqI5Omo9TDTVc.jpg?w=945&s=90085e2891782ed4bf723b9e4016efe7)

Ceterum censeo Unionem Europaeam esse delendam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 11:23:49 am

Yes, we heard you the first time. It doesn't make you look smarter, if that's the intent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 11:38:56 am

I wonder how that'll impact Brexit because Brexiteers now have a new and real reason to leave.

Surprised any of the UK MEPs went for it, but then again, they're leaving it anyway.

edit: A breakdown by party if anybody is curious (https://www.politico.eu/article/copyright-europe-behind-the-vote-why-the-epp-clinched-vote/).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on September 12, 2018, 12:08:42 pm

Whoever made that graph hates the colorblind.

Wonder what's behind some of these voting differences. Why is Poland so strongly against it while France can't get enough of it? Why's the UK so evenly split when the other big countries so much more for it? Also wow, small states get a lot more MEPs than I thought (good on you, Luxembourg).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 12:19:50 pm

Sweden and Netherlands are more strongly against it than Poland and Croatia comes close. I don't know about why the Netherlands, Sweden (though scriver cited a likely reason), and Croatia voted strongly against, but Poland has been clashing with Brussels recently, so, that could explain Poland.

As for France, the only explaination I can think of is the French being defensive about French langiage and culture.

Brexit would explain the UK to an extent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 12, 2018, 12:39:05 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 11:23:49 am

Yes, we heard you the first time. It doesn't make you look smarter, if that's the intent.

Rather than making snide comments about his choice of rallying phrase, you might wish to address his argument.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 12:53:31 pm

Quote from: Arx on September 12, 2018, 12:39:05 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 11:23:49 am

Yes, we heard you the first time. It doesn't make you look smarter, if that's the intent.

Rather than making snide comments about his choice of rallying phrase, you might wish to address his argument.

What's to address? He kindly explained his stance and now I understand it better.
The pretentious use of Latin makes me roll my eyes, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 12, 2018, 12:57:45 pm

Then it would be productive to acknowledge his explanation, rather than snipe at him in a way that suggests you disagree but don't want to engage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 12, 2018, 12:58:19 pm

I have to admit that the canis latinicus is kinda tiresome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 pm

Quote from: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 11:19:37 am

7 out of 12 my country's MEPs voted for it... Fucking hell.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redditmedia.com/3-xx36zVAZso8a6j82GpQPzLCZGUPSWqI5Omo9TDTVc.jpg?w=945&s=90085e2891782ed4bf723b9e4016efe7)

Ceterum censeo Unionem Europaeam esse delendam.

Shame they don't say which parties they were from...

Quote from: Digital Hellhound on September 12, 2018, 12:08:42 pm

Whoever made that graph hates the colorblind.

Wonder what's behind some of these voting differences. Why is Poland so strongly against it while France can't get enough of it? Why's the UK so evenly split when the other big countries so much more for it? Also wow, small states get a lot more MEPs than I thought (good on you, Luxembourg).

France fucking loves copyright. They're the reason we can't call champagne champagne any longer, for example. And I can't say 100% if it's true, but if I remember correctly they can even she for copy right infringement if you take photos of art and monuments in the public space in France.

Quote from: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 11:38:56 am

I wonder how that'll impact Brexit because Brexiteers now have a new and real reason to leave.

Surprised any of the UK MEPs went for it, but then again, they're leaving it anyway.

edit: A breakdown by party if anybody is curious (https://www.politico.eu/article/copyright-europe-behind-the-vote-why-the-epp-clinched-vote/).

Oh, that had a map, thanks! Still, too bad it shows the EU parties rather than the real ones, that's one of the major ways EU obfuscates itself to remove itself from responsibility.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 12, 2018, 01:16:56 pm

Faex.

Y'know, I don't really understand why Latin is the de facto magical language... I mean sure, you had your augurs and whatnot, but our image of Romans isn't massively mystical (I mean, sure, they were wildly religious with massive amounts of holy ceremonies and rituals... But I dunno about magery). I guess it's just a Christian thing, another cultural holdover from a misinterpretation of some sort? Possibly.

And I mean, we know more about it than we do stuff like the old Avestan of Zoroastrianism (which would be a lot more fun... I mean, hell, that's where the word magic comes from, it's gotta be worth something, right?).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 12, 2018, 01:30:13 pm

Brexituri te salutant! Ave Johnson!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:30:26 pm

The word magic comes from Swedish, "trollkonst", and translates to "the art of trolling".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2018, 01:43:03 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:30:26 pm

The word magic comes from Swedish, "trollkonst", and translates to "the art of trolling".

Ars troglodytarum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:49:34 pm

Since konst- is also the base word for swedish "weird" (if you call someone weird in Swedish. "konstig" you literally call them "artsy") it could also be translated akin to "the troll wyrd"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 12, 2018, 04:34:04 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 11:38:56 am

I wonder how that'll impact Brexit because Brexiteers now have a new and real reason to leave.

Anyone who hasn't already been convinced Brexit was worth pursuing will find some way to rationalize remaining in the European Union whilst the EU fucks them

And from a glance, looks like Poland, Sweden and the Netherlands are heroes of Yurop

Quote from: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 11:38:56 am

Surprised any of the UK MEPs went for it, but then again, they're leaving it anyway.

edit: A breakdown by party if anybody is curious (https://www.politico.eu/article/copyright-europe-behind-the-vote-why-the-epp-clinched-vote/).

The UK MEPs are split between the eurosceptics and the neoliberals; specifically the faction concerned with intellectual property control. The latter faction is certain they can have EU copyright law implemented in the UK before the UK leaves, and no one in the UK will have any say in the matter, provided they work quickly. A lot of powerful UK based entertainment industry people look harshly upon attempts by others to consume content made by normal people, or consume content made by studios for free. I will never forget the day I heard two music label representatives talk about how it was stupid young people had the idea that you could listen to music for free... To a room full of young people who did just that. Bizarre

Quote from: martinuzz on September 12, 2018, 01:30:13 pm

Brexituri te salutant! Ave Johnson!

EU delenda est

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 12, 2018, 06:11:46 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 pm

France fucking loves copyright. They're the reason we can't call champagne champagne any longer, for example. And I can't say 100% if it's true, but if I remember correctly they can even she for copy right infringement if you take photos of art and monuments in the public space in France.

why do the french even have the internet if they hate having access to information so much

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 12, 2018, 06:12:58 pm

Where else are they going to argue about their language?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 06:40:29 am

So fear mongering aside, best I can tell, Article 11 just gives automatic copyright to a digital article, so reposting the article in full or majority and not just linking and describing would violate the copyright, and Article 13 is basically a European equivalent to DMCA.

I mean, Article 11 just seems to be aligning it with how Copyright already tends to work (automatic and not needing registering), and Article 13 looks tamer than DMCA and leaves more wiggle room for smaller businesses. And it's all sufficiently vague enough to leave deciding exactly what it means as a sovereign decision for each state to make, so it's more about granting states the power to do what they want than actually enforcing it.

(Which if they're the kind of state to take a more hardline stance on, they'd be doing anyway without the EU but details).

Not exactly a fan since I think access to and sharing of information should be free on principle, but you don't have to agree with everything the EU does to think it's a better option than leaving.

To use another example in politics: I don't agree with every Labour policy, but I still voted Labour in the last general election because I think they were and are the better option. for example, I am of the opinion that large-scale manufacturing in Britain should stay dead and in the past.

But I support nationalisation of services for which avoiding an effective monopoly requires either ridiculous bureaucratic loops to make remotely possible, or just doesn't really work at all to prevent a monopoly (e.g trains, water, electricity), more investment in green energy sources, more investment into the NHS and public services...You get the idea.

But with the EU my point of view has always been that most of the things I dislike about the EU also tend to be the things the British government has been pushing and supporting since it joined, so at the end of the day all leaving does is take power from a set containing several assholes and gives it to the ones who have historically been some of the bigger assholes in the bunch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 13, 2018, 07:06:41 am

I can tell you that as far as recruiting "foreign talent" is concerned, it does make the British job market less attractive. The SM does cut a lot of red tape in regards to moving to another country in the EU; that makes things more straightforward and easier, which in turn makesnit more likely to accept a position abroad(which is always a risky and stressful consideration). I think many people haven't considered that angle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 12:31:00 pm

???
It takes power from those arseholes since they won't be able to push unpopular policy upon Britain and subsequently blame the EU for the policy they pushed through the EU; any such policy will have to be executed with their head in the proverbial chopping block

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 12:47:27 pm

That's starting to get a little bit...erm, what's the term? Where you try and make things worse so the system destroys itself so you can build a new one.

There's an actual term for that, and I honestly can't remember it. But yeah, that's starting to sound a little bit like whatever that's called. It think it was mentioned somewhere in the America thread, but fuck me I'm not going to dig back through the 1000-odd pages for that xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 12:50:00 pm

Might be accelerationism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 13, 2018, 12:58:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 12:31:00 pm

???
It takes power from those arseholes since they won't be able to push unpopular policy upon Britain and subsequently blame the EU for the policy they pushed through the EU; any such policy will have to be executed with their head in the proverbial chopping block

Nah. They'll blame whatever happens on the terms of the Versailles Exit treaty (nevermind that this botched fiasco has two parents) and the Remainer traitors that stabbed GerUK in the back. Some people are already onboard of that sort of rhetoric

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 12:58:32 pm

Sounds right, at least as far as wikipedia says: "Accelerationism may also refer more broadly, and usually pejoratively, to support for the deepening of capitalism in the belief that this will hasten its self-destructive tendencies and ultimately lead to its collapse"

But yeah, the whole "well now they don't have a scapegoat" just feels a little bit like "giving them enough rope to hang themselves and hope they don't also get enough to hang you as well".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 13, 2018, 01:07:34 pm

So it's a choice between a fixed status quo or a path which may remain the status quo, or could change.

And I,
I took the one less travelled by.
And that has made all the difference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 01:26:15 pm

Except I'd argue the EU is composed heart, body and soul, of the countries that form it. If you want to change it, you need to change those countries just as surely as you'd need to change those countries without the EU.

And the UK has been a big player in the EU since we joined with a historically strong negotiating position inside the EU, so was one of the countries with a solid chance of driving that kind of reform if it hadn't spent the last three decades bouncing between being governed by two neoliberal parties and playing it's part in pushing the EU down the path in the first place.

And that's the thing. I say you can't really blame the EU, because the EU is just the countries that make it just as suradly as the UK government is, intrinsically, the politicians that the people elect. That bill from earlier was voted through by the democratically elected MEPs after all. it was amended and debated by those democratically elected MEPs. And ministers nominated by the governments that compose the EU. So who is to blame? The EU? No. I'd go for the people elected to govern it, and the people who elected them.

It's a slower path sure, but I'd argue a better one. Change the economic philosophy of a country first, then after that'd happened if the UK had failed at fixing the mess it helped make, then I'd be more likely to accept a case for leaving. Otherwise the underlying problem just remains, and nothing is actually learnt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 13, 2018, 02:11:09 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 01:26:15 pm

Except I'd argue the EU is composed heart, body and soul, of the countries that form it. If you want to change it, you need to change those countries just as surely as you'd need to change those countries without the EU.

And the UK has been a big player in the EU since we joined with a historically strong negotiating position inside the EU, so was one of the countries with a solid chance of driving that kind of reform if it hadn't spent the last three decades bouncing between being governed by two neoliberal parties and playing it's part in pushing the EU down the path in the first place.

And that's the thing. I say you can't really blame the EU, because the EU is just the countries that make it just as suradly as the UK government is, intrinsically, the politicians that the people elect. That bill from earlier was voted through by the democratically elected MEPs after all. it was amended and debated by those democratically elected MEPs. And ministers nominated by the governments that compose the EU. So who is to blame? The EU? No. I'd go for the people elected to govern it, and the people who elected them.

It's a slower path sure, but I'd argue a better one. Change the economic philosophy of a country first, then after that'd happened if the UK had failed at fixing the mess it helped make, then I'd be more likely to accept a case for leaving. Otherwise the underlying problem just remains, and nothing is actually learnt.

+1

I sure am sorry to see the UK leave, because they could actually make a difference in te direction the EU is taking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 04:15:36 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on September 13, 2018, 02:11:09 pm

I sure am sorry to see the UK leave, because they could actually make a difference in te direction the EU is taking.

At what cost, for what prize? Winning is not worth it, losing means losing everything.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 13, 2018, 12:58:28 pm

Nah. They'll blame whatever happens on the terms of the Versailles Exit treaty (nevermind that this botched fiasco has two parents) and the Remainer traitors that stabbed GerUK in the back. Some people are already onboard of that sort of rhetoric

And who would believe them? MPs who supported Remain blaming MPs who supported Remain is like MPs who were mired in expenses scandals being put in charge of investigating their opposition's expenses scandals. They can't do shit because what they send around comes immediately around. And so that leaves just MPs who supported Leave, of which we have none who aren't mercenaries in a position to secure leadership. In short, we have many bullets in the chamber, but whenever we choose to fire, our aim shall be entirely decided by a lady in a trenchcoat twiddling her moustache saying "trusssst meeeee," or an oiled up mime trying to persuade us with interpretive dance where to shoot.

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 12:58:32 pm

Sounds right, at least as far as wikipedia says: "Accelerationism may also refer more broadly, and usually pejoratively, to support for the deepening of capitalism in the belief that this will hasten its self-destructive tendencies and ultimately lead to its collapse"
But yeah, the whole "well now they don't have a scapegoat" just feels a little bit like "giving them enough rope to hang themselves and hope they don't also get enough to hang you as well".

In this case, it was not accelerationism, at least in so far as it empowered the neoliberal factions of the United Kingdom. If we had lost the referendum, Cameron & Osborne would still be in power with their attendant ministers, the Conservative faction within the Conservative party would have been eliminated, the Conservative party would have been able to devote its full power towards miring Jeremy Corbyn's socialist faction in political dirt, the United Kingdom would have lost its last realistic chance to leave the EU in this lifetime with UK institutions intact, and all of this immediately prior to the EU's overt centralization drive towards statehood. By contrast, leaving the EU has already resulted in the Labour and Conservative neoliberals entering a delightfully precarious situation, whilst the pipeline of British politicians and civil servants into the European Union is to be severed permanently (in theory, we all know that UK civil servants will still end up in the European Union long after we've left).

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 13, 2018, 01:26:15 pm

Except I'd argue the EU is composed heart, body and soul, of the countries that form it. If you want to change it, you need to change those countries just as surely as you'd need to change those countries without the EU.
And the UK has been a big player in the EU since we joined with a historically strong negotiating position inside the EU, so was one of the countries with a solid chance of driving that kind of reform if it hadn't spent the last three decades bouncing between being governed by two neoliberal parties and playing it's part in pushing the EU down the path in the first place.
And that's the thing. I say you can't really blame the EU, because the EU is just the countries that make it just as suradly as the UK government is, intrinsically, the politicians that the people elect. That bill from earlier was voted through by the democratically elected MEPs after all. it was amended and debated by those democratically elected MEPs. And ministers nominated by the governments that compose the EU. So who is to blame? The EU? No. I'd go for the people elected to govern it, and the people who elected them.
It's a slower path sure, but I'd argue a better one. Change the economic philosophy of a country first, then after that'd happened if the UK had failed at fixing the mess it helped make, then I'd be more likely to accept a case for leaving. Otherwise the underlying problem just remains, and nothing is actually learnt.

I would not have the United Kingdom be governed by the United Nations in the hope that the United Kingdom could be reformed, to in turn reform the United Nations, to in turn govern the world. I have no desire to change France, or Germany, or Poland or Italy and so forth, and given the general lack of imagination in the majority of politicians who end up in power over any European nation, all our continued influence would achieve would be to see the European peoples submit to the spiritual yoke of the City of London.

I also cannot attribute blame to the electorate, nor take blame away from the European Union as a body of institutions which is so readily designed to command the European Continent, to bid for world hegemony, all without any regard for a single soul of any of the nations calling Europe home. To bring back the obvious example in the UK, our government has continually been dominated by neoliberal MPs, and all these MPs naturally being pro-EU. It is not the fault of the electorate if they vote in neoliberal pro-EU politicians when they have been given the choice to only elect neoliberal pro-EU politicians.
There is also a terrifying gap in logic wherein anyone from the UK can recognise that MPs are vulnerable to being isolated and influenced by lobbyists, civil servants and advisors, yet the EU with far greater resources, far less accountability, far more lobbyists, bureaucrats and advisors - seems to exist in some zone of blindness, wherein we can somehow fix the European Union's dysfunction in scales far larger than any one nation could devise.

So you have this fucking bill. It wasn't proposed in the EU parliament, because the EU parliament can't propose the laws that will govern European peoples - just in case they get crazy ideas and start thinking the European Union is supposed to derive its authority from voters. If the EU parliament had voted against article 11 or 13, the EU could have made the Parliament vote again under rebranded legislature, or incorporated such legislature into a treaty for example, disregarding any such theoretical opposition with ease. Then you have your MEPs, whose political parties vet the candidates from amongst their ilk beforehand, naturally ensuring voters pick the right candidates. Such MEPs with an £80k salary, a £213,000 allowance for Parliamentary assistance (which they can spend on hiring relatives and friends!) with additional allowance for £91,000 in general expenses... With no receipts required! (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10777351/MEPs-second-pension-gravy-train-pays-and-perks-of-MEPs.html) What MEPs then will vote against the system keeping them employed so generously, or keep their pension so juicy? Is it any wonder that one of the EU's priority is to have the UK pay the EU billions, not for the benefit of European people, but to pay the pensions of EU officials! (https://www.ft.com/content/cabf22e2-d462-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9)

Now consider that in the UK lobbyists spend £25M in the last 2 years (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/big-business-spends-25m-on-lobbying-politicians-2b2bjsjmx) on influencing British legislature. That figure won't include politicians being promised careers in the private sector or given ludicrous sums of cash for "speeches." In one year, the sum for EU lobbying was €1.7B (https://www.politico.eu/article/transparency-register-analysis-lobbying-east-west-skew-european-union/).
£12,500,000 is a considerably easier thing to deal with than €1,700,000,000, not least in the bit because I can walk to my MP - but there's fuck all way I can compete with a lobbyist based over the channel speaking to an MEP or EU Civil Servant, least not if the MEP or Mandarin is already seeing eye to eye with corporate interests.

Realistically, I have no capacity nor do I see any capacity for the British people to be the doctor of all Europe's ills, not in the least when our elected leaders act as the doctor of Europe whilst prescribing nothing but opium, to profit from the sickness.

And for what profit?

Why try to build a superstate to fight America for world hegemony? Is it not enough to look after our people and our country, to advance in technology and culture, instead of wasting all of our resources trying to make a United States of Indistinct Provinces? The structure is inherently pitted in favour of whoever holds the most capital.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 13, 2018, 04:43:04 pm

Better Putin than Tusk, innit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 04:49:58 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on September 13, 2018, 04:43:04 pm

Better Putin than Tusk, innit?

This is like a salesman saying it is better to have hemorrhoids than gonorrhea, so open your rectum for hemorrhoids. It is a false choice when having good health of the bowels and genitals is the necessary combination

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 14, 2018, 01:29:48 am

I should have added an /s there, but oh well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 02:15:02 am

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 pm

They're the reason we can't call champagne champagne any longer, for example.

One of the less-known stipulations of the Treaty of Versailles. And its no different to all the modern laws protecting regional brands like Stilton from mass-produced rock-bottom foreign imitators.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 03:18:54 am

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on September 14, 2018, 01:29:48 am

I should have added an /s there, but oh well.

Godpoewin's law

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 03:34:33 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 02:15:02 am

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 pm

They're the reason we can't call champagne champagne any longer, for example.

One of the less-known stipulations of the Treaty of Versailles. And its no different to all the modern laws protecting regional brands like Stilton from mass-produced rock-bottom foreign imitators.

Just like cologne and hamburgers!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 14, 2018, 06:49:49 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 03:34:33 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 02:15:02 am

Quote from: scriver on September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 pm

They're the reason we can't call champagne champagne any longer, for example.

One of the less-known stipulations of the Treaty of Versailles. And its no different to all the modern laws protecting regional brands like Stilton from mass-produced rock-bottom foreign imitators.

Just like cologne and hamburgers!

But not Cheddar, oddly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

In a rush, but I'll just say that I think you're looking at the whole "money spent on lobbying" thing the wrong way around. They spend that much because the EU is considerably harder to lobby than the UK government to get the results. Convincing 27 countries to agree to a thing is a lot harder than convincing a handful of Ministers and their Chief Whip.

You say our leaders can't change, and we should "advance in technology and culture". But technology benefits immensely from EU membership, hence why so many of the businesses and business leaders and researchers and academics are pro-remain. We stand a better chance of advancing in terms of science and technology as a part of the EU than outside of it.

As for culture, meh. Culture changes, culture grows, culture adapts, culture isn't a "thing" you can point at and preserve or fix. It is a fluid mess, and obsessing about preserving it (for example) is a fools errand as far as I'm concerned. Our culture is not our parents is not our grandparents is not our great-grandparents will not be our childrens will not be our grandchildrens, it's not worth the time to "improve" or "preserve" as a thing in and of itself, it's something that just happens. Social issues are what need focusing on, culture will follow suit and adapts and change as it always has and always will.

Personally I don't think the EU is progressing to becoming a full state ala the USA. I consider that a shame, personally, since I'm actually in favour of humanity progressing towards a one-world government, but that's just me. And I think a United State of Europe (to quote Churchill) could be a positive step forward towards that. There are factions inside the EU that want to take it that way, sure. But there are factions that want Wales to become independent from the UK. Doesn't make it particularly likely anytime soon :)

As for cheese, personally I like Goats Cheese on spicy pizzas. The Goats Cheese tames the spice down but keeps and brings out the flavour :)

(...okay, I wrote a lot for being in a rush xD)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 07:03:24 am

maybe after brexit we can invade a third-world nation and steal some of its' culture to top up our reserves, as is the British tradition

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 14, 2018, 07:06:12 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 07:03:24 am

maybe after brexit we can invade a third-world nation and steal some of its' culture to top up our reserves, as is the British tradition

The dutch can keep their diamonds, the French can have their silks. We shall steal the precious grains of Culture, harvested by hand by poor farmers in third world countries.

I've said it before but I'll say it again - Brexit won't matter because WW3 is going to make it largely irrelevant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 07:11:55 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

As for cheese, personally I like Goats Cheese on spicy pizzas. The Goats Cheese tames the spice down but keeps and brings out the flavour :)

Try crumbled feta (preferably sheep's milk), potentially along with some basil. It's sharp and tart, but it toasts a bit in the heat and caramelizes to round out the flavor with some sweetness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 07:14:40 am

I'll have to try that sometime. I melted feta cheese into a curry once and it proved surprisingly nice.

Quote from: Rowanas on September 14, 2018, 07:06:12 am

I've said it before but I'll say it again - Brexit won't matter because the heat death of the universe is going to make it largely irrelevant.

Fixed for you :)

...Goddamnit I actually have work to do, keep getting distracted xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 14, 2018, 07:28:35 am

Just joining the feta fanboy club by saying it also works well with scrambled eggs. Add some chunks towards the end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 07:33:32 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 14, 2018, 07:28:35 am

Just joining the feta fanboy club by saying it also works well with scrambled eggs. Add some chunks towards the end.

Oh fuck yes, feta with scramblies/omelette is amazing. I tend to just mix in chunks of feta on the plate rather than blend it into the scramble itself, but it all works.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 14, 2018, 07:54:26 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 07:33:32 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on September 14, 2018, 07:28:35 am

Just joining the feta fanboy club by saying it also works well with scrambled eggs. Add some chunks towards the end.

Oh fuck yes, feta with scramblies/omelette is amazing. I tend to just mix in chunks of feta on the plate rather than blend it into the scramble itself, but it all works.

But then the feta doesn't melt as well.  It's like buttering the toast after it's popped out, rather than jamming a buttered knife into the inner workings of your toaster!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 07:59:46 am

Feta doesn't really... Melt, though. It toasts, and it can soften, but it's not really a good cheese for melting. The crumbly, firm texture is part of the appeal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2018, 08:12:37 am

Feta är fett gott

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 08:22:13 am

Feta e fet'a.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 14, 2018, 08:32:19 am

Boba Fett-a

Okay, that was terrible, but couldn't resist. lol....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 14, 2018, 09:24:39 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 14, 2018, 07:59:46 am

Feta doesn't really... Melt, though. It toasts, and it can soften, but it's not really a good cheese for melting. The crumbly, firm texture is part of the appeal.

Yes, very well, softens.  Still, it does not undergo a breaking of the bonds which arises from the application of heat, and which I find desirable in feta.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 14, 2018, 09:47:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 14, 2018, 08:32:19 am

Boba Fett-a

Okay, that was terrible, but couldn't resist. lol....

That reminded me, there are a lot of things that are never named in Star Wars movies yet every kid seems to have known what they were straight away, due to the incessant toy marketing. Boba Fett is one. He's never named in Empire, yet every kid knew his name. The first time he's mentioned by name is just before he dies, in ROTJ: Chewie roars then Han says "Boba Fett?  Boba Fett? where?" and knocks him into the death pit. That line ... it's like an in joke that already assumes you know what that guy is called, yet the only way you could know what he's called is through the supplemental marketing or if someone explains it to you. That's how much Star Wars is/was tied up with marketing - too much - if actual dialogue doesn't make a lot of sense unless you already know the external marketing material.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 14, 2018, 09:57:42 am

I think you're reading too much into my joke, I was riffing off of scrivers 'fett' and kagus's 'fet'a' and it was just an idea that popped into my head that I thought was funny.

Boba Fett is supposed to be one of those guys whose infamy/fame preceeds them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 11:49:49 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

In a rush, but I'll just say that I think you're looking at the whole "money spent on lobbying" thing the wrong way around. They spend that much because the EU is considerably harder to lobby than the UK government to get the results. Convincing 27 countries to agree to a thing is a lot harder than convincing a handful of Ministers and their Chief Whip.

No, they spend that much because it scales to the benefit of their investment. Lobbyists in the UK can affect British policy, lobbyists in the EU will decide what rules Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK will obey. Whether you intend it or not, you are deliberately spreading disinformation by pretending the presence of a multibillion year EU lobbying industry is evidence that it is struggling to gain results.

Quote

To stroll around the vast, ugly and permanent building site that is Brussels' European district is to brush up against the power of the lobbies. Every office block, every glass and steel construction within a kilometre of the European commission, council and parliament is peopled by Europe's biggest corporate names.
Thousands of companies, banks, law firms, PR consultancies and trade associations are there to bend ears and influence the regulations and laws that shape Europe's single market, fix trade deals, and govern economic and commercial behaviour in a union of 507 million.
Lobbying is a billion-euro industry in Brussels. According to Corporate Europe Observatory, a watchdog campaigning for greater transparency, there are at least 30,000 lobbyists in Brussels, nearly matching the 31,000 staff employed by the European commission and making it second only to Washington in the concentration of those seeking to affect legislation. Lobbyists sign a transparency register run by the parliament and the commission, though it is not mandatory.
By some estimates, they influence 75% of legislation. In principle, lobbyists give politicians information and arguments during the decision-making process. In practice, the corridors of the parliament often teem with individuals, who meet MEPs in their offices or in open spaces such as the "Mickey Mouse bar" (nicknamed so because of the shape of its seats) inside the parliament.
They explain their concerns, provide a "position paper", and send in suggestions for amendments to legislative proposals. Of course, the final decision is taken by MEPs. But examples are legion of the tail wagging the dog.
The most effective lobbying in Brussels centres on the gamekeepers-turned-poachers, the revolving door of senior commission officials, diplomats, and MEPs who retire or quit public office and instantly take up offers to translate their contacts and inside knowledge into lucrative lobbying work, often by moving to an office across the street.
Take Jean de Ruyt, a Belgian who knows Brussels inside out. As ambassador to the EU, the career diplomat in effect ran Belgium's EU presidency four years ago, then retired, took up a job with a US law firm and is now a leading figure in the shale lobby.
His No 2 as ambassador is now chief of staff to Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European council steering EU summits.

As a point of correction, the Guardian article was written in 2014 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-european-parliament-brussels-corporate), there is no longer 30,000 lobbyists, there are now over 80,000 lobbyists (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/20180108STO91215/transparency-register-who-is-lobbying-the-eu-infographic) working to influence EU policy and regulation in 2018.
More money, less transparency, more influence and less responsibility. But perhaps we should defer to the United States, given how much their corporations spend on lobbying their government, they too must be a bastion of transparent democracy

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

You say our leaders can't change, and we should "advance in technology and culture". But technology benefits immensely from EU membership, hence why so many of the businesses and business leaders and researchers and academics are pro-remain. We stand a better chance of advancing in terms of science and technology as a part of the EU than outside of it.

It's an old lobbying trick to manufacture consensus:

Quote

3. Engineer a following (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/12/lobbying-10-ways-corprations-influence-government)
It doesn't help if a corporation is the only one making the case to government. That looks like special pleading. What is needed is a critical mass of voices singing to its tune. This can be engineered.
The forte of lobbying firm Westbourne is in mobilising voices behind its clients. Thirty economists, for example, signed a letter to the FT in 2011 in support of HS2; 100 businesses endorsed another published in the Daily Telegraph.
Westbourne was also hired in 2011 to lobby against the top rate of tax, although who was behind its "50p tax campaign" remains a mystery. Ahead of the chancellor's annual Budget announcement in early 2012, letters appeared in the press demanding he scrap it. The FT's was signed by 20 economists. The Telegraph's by the bosses of 573 SMEs, described as the "bedrock" of British industry. A quick glance, though, revealed it included five managers from the Switzerland-based banking giant Credit Suisse. The paper's commentary noted the alarm this new call from "ordinary British business" would cause inside government.

Hence why there's been years of articles going on about how Leave voters are really a small minority who never wanted brexit anyways, therefore we should implement further integration to the EU in order to appease them. Subsequently we should trust in a list of businessmen and researchers who are paid by the European Union in order to gain an appraisal of the European Union's merits, faster than you could say 'conflict of interest.' But alas - we should be wasting billions on building up EU pension schemes for its bureaucrats, or else the birthplace of the industrial revolution and modern finance will be incapable of innovating...

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

As for culture, meh. Culture changes, culture grows, culture adapts, culture isn't a "thing" you can point at and preserve or fix. It is a fluid mess, and obsessing about preserving it (for example) is a fools errand as far as I'm concerned. Our culture is not our parents is not our grandparents is not our great-grandparents will not be our childrens will not be our grandchildrens, it's not worth the time to "improve" or "preserve" as a thing in and of itself, it's something that just happens. Social issues are what need focusing on, culture will follow suit and adapts and change as it always has and always will.

You cannot accept the mutability of culture without accepting its capacity to decline; once you have severed the continuity between the past and present, that link is irreparable. The United Kingdom stands at this schizophrenic crossroads wherein it spends so much time and capital seeking to revive Celtic languages or promote cultures from across the Commonwealth within the British Isles - but then turns around and says that actually, it is best to just let heritage and culture die. Because culture is not something you cultivate or preserve, for as long as you ignore all of our past and present efforts to do just that, or ignore the entire profession of the teacher or the artist or the content creator - and ultimately, of the parent, the grandparent and the great-grandparent.

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 06:59:42 am

Personally I don't think the EU is progressing to becoming a full state ala the USA. I consider that a shame, personally, since I'm actually in favour of humanity progressing towards a one-world government, but that's just me. And I think a United State of Europe (to quote Churchill) could be a positive step forward towards that. There are factions inside the EU that want to take it that way, sure. But there are factions that want Wales to become independent from the UK. Doesn't make it particularly likely anytime soon :)

Give it time, I am personally of the belief that we will progress towards a universal government one way or another once holding an independent foreign policy becomes too expensive all (or all but one) of the world's states to maintain. Once that is the case, the distinction between one national government and another will become increasingly irrelevant, as both governments will be incapable of maintaining divergent international interests - all other integration will have already occurred, or will follow suit organically.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 11:59:00 am

My point is the presence of lobbyists is irrelevant as to whether or not it actually works in having a significant influence on EU laws. Indeed, there are plenty of EU laws that pass despite extensive lobbying against them by industries (GMO and Tobacco laws, for example).

Additionally, all your arguing against then is centralisation. But they'll just change tact if you get rid of that, and you'd get a lot of smaller investments spread around instead of one big one which is even harder to deal with.

You do realise your argument against the argument that researches are general pro-EU is literally:
"We need to leave the EU and invest more in research and technology"
"The people who are most involved in academic research and technological development that say this is a bad idea and will slow down research and technological development."
"All those people are shills for the EU!"

This is exactly what is being talked about when people talk about the culture around Brexit being one of ignoring people with the relevant expertise and knowledge because "they've had enough of experts".

If you don't trust the academics and researches when they say it's a bad idea and instead invoke what basically boils down to a conspiracy theory that "all lecturers are subtle EU shills", you are removing yourself from the capacity for rational, information-driven and evidence-driven debate.

Preserving historical heritage and fighting to preserve the idea of a culture are two different things. Fighting against the tide to preserve culture just warps that culture into a bastardisation of itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2018, 12:03:53 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 11:59:00 am

My point is the presence of lobbyists is irrelevant as to whether or not it actually works in having a significant influence on EU laws. Indeed, there are plenty of EU laws that pass despite extensive lobbying against them by industries (GMO and Tobacco laws, for example).

And Copyright laws - oh wait

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:06:00 pm

Lawmakers all over the world, EU, USA, and UK have all been struggling with "copyright" since the invention of the printing press. That isn't going to change just because it gets decentralised.

The internet and the digital age in which information can be copied and distributed en-masse at basically zero cost certainly hasn't helped. Copyright law has been a broken thing for awhile now, but that break goes all the way back to trying to apply laws and concepts that originated in dealing with physical books to digital goods.

And it also doesn't help that most lawmakers are older and don't quite get this "internet" thing. "It's a series of tubes" and all that.

All those things mean that for so long as the idea of copyright exists at all, copyright is always going to be a bit of a sore-topic in any capitalistic system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 12:16:17 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 11:59:00 am

My point is the presence of lobbyists is irrelevant as to whether or not it actually works in having a significant influence on EU laws. Indeed, there are plenty of EU laws that pass despite extensive lobbying against them by industries (GMO and Tobacco laws, for example).

The law does not need to be rejected for lobbyists to successfully alter or influence the policy in a manner which neuters the regulation, nor does the 25% estimated unaffected in any manner diminish the 75%.

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 11:59:00 am

You do realise your argument against the argument that researches are general pro-EU is literally:
"We need to invest more in research and technology"
"The people who are most involved in academic research and technological development that say this is a bad idea."
"All those people are shills for the EU!"
This is exactly what is being talked about when people talk about the culture around Brexit being one of ignoring people with the relevant expertise and knowledge because "they've had enough of experts".
If you don't trust the academics and researches when they say it's a bad idea and instead invoke what basically boils down to a conspiracy theory that "all lecturers are subtle EU shills", you are removing yourself from the capacity for rational, information-driven and evidence-driven debate.

On the one hand you claim expertise without any evidence, you claim rationality and information-driven debate despite posting no sources or information - and then you turn around and say that you can assert against all evidence to the contrary, that vast sums of cash spent on lobbying or senior EU politicians being elected from lobbyists or transferring into lobbying firms, is evidence that the EU is unaffected by lobbying. That 80,000 lobbyists and growing - should be interpreted as the EU standing firm against corporate lobbying. I wish literally was still used to mean 'literally.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:20:29 pm

My point was that your interpreting "there are a lot of lobbyists so they must be successful" was a false conclusion, that they invest in the EU because it's a big target but that it's size can also be a defence since it isn't one country or government that needs convincing, but many. The cause does not necessarily follow effect in the manner you suggest, and that the presence of lobbyists does not directly mean that they are having so extreme an impact on laws.

Yes, the transparency is something all infrastructures need to be constantly trying to improve. The EU isn't as great as it could be there, but the saying about babies and bathwaters comes to mind.

The Guardian article just says "By some estimates, they influence 75% of legislation.". A citation would also be useful there, and what do the other estimates say? What is the range of the estimates?

Do you want me to post the polls showing education and age breakdowns of Remain vs Leave voters? The many many economists and lecturers posting open letters in support of remain? I can do that, but I thought they were common knowledge at this point:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-an-open-letter-to-uk-voters-from-leaders-of-96-british-universities-a7092511.html
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/european-union-referendum-nine-out-of-ten-university-staff-back-remain
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/
https://economistsforremain.org/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brains-for-remain-full-letter-bp8z30t5d

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2018, 12:27:24 pm

I just love it when the class hate comes out. At this rate we'll be back at "only rich people should get to vote" again within 50 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:29:48 pm

Yes, because mentioning that university staff and those who achieve higher education are much more likely support remain is definitely class warfare.

I'm not saying that those people should be the only ones to vote, it's saying that dismissing the people who are the experts is an incredibly dangerous position to hold. To roughly quote Brian Cox, that's the way back into the cave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 12:36:22 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:20:29 pm

My point was that your interpreting "there are a lot of lobbyists so they must be successful" was a false conclusion, that cause does not necessarily follow effect in that manner, and that the presence of lobbyists does not directly mean that they are having so extreme an impact on laws.

Quote

By some estimates, they influence 75% of legislation. In principle, lobbyists give politicians information and arguments during the decision-making process. In practice, the corridors of the parliament often teem with individuals, who meet MEPs in their offices or in open spaces such as the "Mickey Mouse bar" (nicknamed so because of the shape of its seats) inside the parliament.
They explain their concerns, provide a "position paper", and send in suggestions for amendments to legislative proposals. Of course, the final decision is taken by MEPs. But examples are legion of the tail wagging the dog.
The most effective lobbying in Brussels centres on the gamekeepers-turned-poachers, the revolving door of senior commission officials, diplomats, and MEPs who retire or quit public office and instantly take up offers to translate their contacts and inside knowledge into lucrative lobbying work, often by moving to an office across the street.
Take Jean de Ruyt, a Belgian who knows Brussels inside out. As ambassador to the EU, the career diplomat in effect ran Belgium's EU presidency four years ago, then retired, took up a job with a US law firm and is now a leading figure in the shale lobby.
His No 2 as ambassador is now chief of staff to Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European council steering EU summits.

"false conclusion."

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:20:29 pm

Do you want me to post the polls showing education and age breakdowns of Remain vs Leave voters? I can do that, but I thought it was common knowledge at this point:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/european-union-referendum-nine-out-of-ten-university-staff-back-remain

For what point? Saying everyone who disagrees with you is uneducated & ignorant of common knowledge hasn't changed the weakness of your argument. It's just nasty. That a successful lobbying industry, rapidly growing into the second largest such in the world, is indication of its failure - and that we should ignore the structural weaknesses in transparency or internal regulation, all because a successful lobbying industry cannot be concluded to be a successful lobbying industry, is bizarre.

For example, you brought up tobacco, which spends millions annually, out of the far larger corporate alliances which make that number billions. And how much influence do they purchase?

Quote

On 7 December 2016, three months after the Brussels meeting, O’Reilly characterizes the Commission’s and its officials’ weak compliance with the FCTC-treaty’s requirements as ‘maladministration’ (read more). Even then, her judgement does not seem to make an impression. The EU tax officials leave their doors wide open, for example for PA International. This lobby foundation has renowned former politicians on its board, like Frits Bolkestein (former EU-commissioner) and Andries van Agt (former Dutch prime minister). On 12 December 2016, PA-lobbyists visit TAXUD to promote – on behalf of a cigar manufacturer – a special duty on cigarillos (read more).Probably the most interesting document is a report of a meeting on 17 January 2017 (read more) during which British American Tobacco and Imperial Brands gave a presentation on the impact of raising excites taxes on their products. TAXUD officials had invited them to come over and ‘share new information concerning raw tobacco and e-cigarettes such as data and experiences with national taxation of new products’, and ‘to present their view on a possible harmonized taxation of e-cigarettes.’ To do so, the tobacco companies put together a shiny Powerpoint presentation.
Initially, it is unclear who attended the meeting, but after an appeal by Tobacco Investigations Desk TAXUD releases the list. Apart from tobacco lobbyists and EU officials (from TAXUD and the EU health department SANTE), it contains 38 officials from various member states (read more).
The meeting not just constitutes a violation of FCTC in itself. The treaty also requires that reports of all meetings of EU-officials with the tobacco industry be made public. TAXUD did not do this until after our FOIA request.
Delaying tactics
On 12 January 2018 the European Commission decided to leave the tobacco tax directive as it is (read more).
Has the industry lobby failed? On the contrary, says Luk Joossens, a well-known Belgian expert on tobacco lobby tactics, this is exactly what the industry wanted: ‘postponement is always good for them because it means they can also postpone any sales price increases. Plus, a delay can become indefinite.’ On page 12 of its strategy document Philip Morris says that preferably, countries should determine their own duty policies – in other words: without EU-interference. The company also employs the strategic adage: ‘roadblocks are as important as solutions’ (read more) – meaning: if we cannot stop anti-smoking measures, we can at least try to stall them.

They get open door access with former commissioners and PMs working for them. (http://www.onderzoeksredactietabak.nl/2018/02/23/eu-still-wide-open-tobacco-lobby/)

Quote from: scriver on September 14, 2018, 12:27:24 pm

I just love it when the class hate comes out. At this rate we'll be back at "only rich people should get to vote" again within 50 years.

The current attitude is that the old and the uneducated should be disenfranchised, unless they change their mind and vote Remain. Then they become people again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:37:19 pm

I repeat:

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:29:48 pm

Yes, because mentioning that university staff and those who achieve higher education are much more likely support remain is definitely class warfare.

I'm not saying that those people should be the only ones to vote, it's saying that dismissing the people who are the experts is an incredibly dangerous position to hold. To roughly quote Brian Cox, that's the way back into the cave.

Loud Whispers did dismiss all of those academics and researchers as being EU shills, asserting that there very existence is "an old lobbying trick to manufacture consensus", and I heavily dispute that attitude. I call it what I think it is: Dangerous and destructive, and if it enters the fabric of our society then it I think that attitude will destroy and cripple the foundations upon which that research and technology he said we should invest in is based upon.

I kept editing it to add more links for lecturers and professors writing open letters in favour of remain:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-an-open-letter-to-uk-voters-from-leaders-of-96-british-universities-a7092511.html
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/european-union-referendum-nine-out-of-ten-university-staff-back-remain
https://economistsforremain.org/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brains-for-remain-full-letter-bp8z30t5d

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 12:43:55 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:37:19 pm

Loud Whispers did dismiss all of those academics and researchers as being EU shills, asserting that there very existence is "an old lobbying trick to manufacture consensus", and I heavily dispute that attitude. I call it what I think it is: Dangerous and destructive, and if it enters the fabric of our society then it I think that attitude will destroy and cripple the foundations upon which that research and technology he said we should invest in is based upon.

I am pointing out the inherent conflict of interest in relying upon someone who receives economic benefits directly from an institution to receive an appraisal of aforementioned institution. Your argument is that we require the EU to fund our research using our money, because academicians who are being paid by the European Union have said so. Therefore we should not consider funding our research with our money directly, because the academics have said it is impossible despite it being possible. (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/funding-from-eu-programmes-guaranteed-until-the-end-of-2020) But alas, now I am a cancer who must be excised from the fabric of society. Guess I gotta go to jail now, wee lad, the neoliberals win again, if only I had billions to spend on failing at lobbying

*EDIT
Sorry, I was wrong. It's not academics, it's senior administrative staff with 6 figure salaries, who are saying we can't fund our own research. Figures it's the same people cutting pay and overtime for research staff who are worried about our ability to fund research

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

Again, calling an attitude dangerous is not the same thing as saying the person who has it should be jailed. But sure, take any criticism as a call for you to be publicly executed why not.

Anyway, I did not mention funding at all because funding is not the only concern they raise. It's a whole system that allows for cross-continent co-operation between universities, researches and businesses which we stand to lose access to.

https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/news/Pages/Downturn-in-UK-participation-in-latest-EU-research-programme-statistics.aspx
"The UK benefits enormously from the access to vital networks, funding and talent Horizon 2020 provides. It allows researchers to collaborate with world-leading experts on life-changing research, with knock-on benefits for the economy, society and individuals in the UK."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 14, 2018, 12:57:10 pm

 I think it's worth repeating: regardless of the overall flaws or virtues of the EU as an institution (and I do think it has severe flaws, nor do I particularily like EU commission), Brexit as it is has an anti-foreigner facet, or is perceived as such, regardless of the intent, and makes it harder for foreign talent to move in. Both make it less likely that foreign workers with essential skills will be willing to move in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 01:00:12 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/dec/03/eu-university-funding-grants-decline-brexit-horizon-2020
"The UK benefits enormously from the access to vital networks, funding and talent Horizon 2020 provides."

Funding is not the only concern they raise, it's not just about the money. It's a whole system that allows for cross-continent co-operation between universities which we could lose access to.

wahe what a surprise, some false conclusions
Losing membership of European Financial Instruments is not the same as EU Universities deploying an academic boycott the likes of which has only been seen used on apartheid South Africa; it is patent fear mongering from the elites of our country (average £339,657 salary - with the overpaid chancellors patently lying through their teeth that they have earned their pay whilst cutting faculty wages (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/06/vice-chancellor-salary-study-demolishes-claims-pay-rises-based/)), that we must support the European Union in order to conduct our own research or cooperate with other Universities. Which is to say, we will have access to Universities in the USA, we will have access to Universities in China - but the EU will be off limits unless we do what the good Vice Chancellors say, and we should trust their word on the matter.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 14, 2018, 12:57:10 pm

I think it's worth repeating: regardless of the overall flaws or virtues of the EU as an institution (and I do think it has severe flaws, nor do I particularily like EU commission), Brexit as it is has an anti-foreigner facet, or is perceived as such, regardless of the intent, and makes it harder for foreign talent to move in. Both make it less likely that foreign workers with essential skills will be willing to move in.

It is entirely pointless to speak in such terms when the perception is entirely manufactured by opinion setters and media campaigns. What makes it hard for foreign talent to move in is the fact that our government is led by wealthy elites who do not appreciate competition from skilled migrants, hence why unlimited unskilled migration is acceptable, but skilled migrant visas must be capped. The former group is not perceived to be a threat to their careers, the latter is, so the latter find structural barriers in place against them

*EDIT, just saw your edit

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

Again, calling an attitude dangerous is not the same thing as saying the person who has it should be jailed. But sure, take any criticism as a call for you to be publicly executed why not.

You're asking me to ignore the history of your rhetoric being used to justify the crushing of political opponents as dangerous. That's a lot to ask, from one who ostensibly cares about rational and reasonable debate. You don't call someone dangerous and a threat to the fabric of society if you don't intend for their threat to be neutralized.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 01:52:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 01:00:12 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 14, 2018, 12:47:55 pm

Again, calling an attitude dangerous is not the same thing as saying the person who has it should be jailed. But sure, take any criticism as a call for you to be publicly executed why not.

You're asking me to ignore the history of your rhetoric being used to justify the crushing of political opponents as dangerous. That's a lot to ask, from one who ostensibly cares about rational and reasonable debate. You don't call someone dangerous and a threat to the fabric of society if you don't intend for their threat to be neutralized.

So all those articles that call millenials a threat to [x random industry] are asking for all twentysomethings to be executed? That's such bullshit victimisation of yourself and you know it full well.

People saying "science doesnt matter, research doesnt matter, if we believe in ourselves and ignore everyone who says we're wrong we can make [arbitary nation state] great again!" is dangerous, and that should be obvious no matter what your opinions on the Brexit vote are. Don't make the mistake of automatically taking the side of liars and demagogues just because they're on your side any more than anti-brexit people should defend people who say Brexit will make us drift out into the atlantic and sink.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 02:23:33 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 01:52:45 pm

So all those articles that call millenials a threat to [x random industry] are asking for all twentysomethings to be executed? That's such bullshit victimisation of yourself and you know it full well.

No to the former, no to the latter. Saying millennials are apathetic towards consumerism is nowhere alike calling for someone or something to be ignored for dangerous ideas; the former makes no claim to defining the terms of acceptable and unacceptable discourse, the latter intrinsically wishes to set the debate in terms of what is acceptable (my beliefs) and what is extremist, dangerous, radical, fringe (my opponent's). It is why supporting Brexit in Metropolitan UK will garner a widely different reaction than if you had expressed such sentiments in the rest of the UK; it is why there is so much protest to our government's authority to prosecute those who hold beliefs the government adjudicates as unacceptable. Slippery (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/government-web-censorship) slope (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/abuse-support-and-sex-education-sites-blocked-by-isps-porn-filters-9015389.html) covered in lube

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on September 14, 2018, 01:52:45 pm

People saying "science doesnt matter, research doesnt matter, if we believe in ourselves and ignore everyone who says we're wrong we can make [arbitary nation state] great again!" is dangerous, and that should be obvious no matter what your opinions on the Brexit vote are. Don't make the mistake of automatically taking the side of liars and demagogues just because they're on your side any more than anti-brexit people should defend people who say Brexit will make us drift out into the atlantic and sink.

I thought I already made it clear I don't trust Boris. Much of the pro-Brexit Tories are cut from the exact same cloth as their pro-EU peers, and will pursue the same policy unless removed, albeit with the improvement that we shall be disengaged from the EU's institutions.

*EDIT
Regarding dangerous speech, yeah nah we're up to 9 arrests per day for trolling (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d). If you allow anyone to say what you believe in is dangerous you're asking for the future you get

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 14, 2018, 02:30:31 pm

Indeed. Brexit is the suppression of but one symptom caused by the nation's insanity. More will need to be done before we actually have politicians whose views are endorsed by the public, and have those views tolerated by the Commie university system which births our politicians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 14, 2018, 02:33:16 pm

To our fellow forum goers who rolled their eyes a few weeks ago when we brought up human trafficking and organized crime in regards to beggars (https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/flera-atalas-for-manniskohandel-i-tiggeriharva/). Badly google translated article here (https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fflera-atalas-for-manniskohandel-i-tiggeriharva%2F&edit-text=&act=url).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 02:42:33 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 14, 2018, 02:30:31 pm

Indeed. Brexit is the suppression of but one symptom caused by the nation's insanity. More will need to be done before we actually have politicians whose views are endorsed by the public, and have those views tolerated by the Commie university system which births our politicians.

I think we're somewhat buggered, because we'll always be seen through the lens that we are just the European versions of American revanchism. Everyone hears us chant "Johnny make Great Britain gr8 m8" when we say "there is little hope for the future of the UK or our leaders." Ditto for hopes regarding the EU but that's a given

Quote from: scriver on September 14, 2018, 02:33:16 pm

To our fellow forum goers who rolled their eyes a few weeks ago when we brought up human trafficking and organized crime in regards to beggars (https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/flera-atalas-for-manniskohandel-i-tiggeriharva/). Badly google translated article here (https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.se%2Fnyheter%2Fsverige%2Fflera-atalas-for-manniskohandel-i-tiggeriharva%2F&edit-text=&act=url).

Could be worse, in SE Asia there were issues with gangs who did the same thing as the Bulgarians, with added amputation in order to make beggars more sympathetic/less capable of resisting. At least the human trafficking is beginning to be addressed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 15, 2018, 10:06:26 am

Sorry for the constant edits with things, keep thinking of different/better phrasings or other little points. Also flat-out forgot to finish a point or two, like forgetting to mention the whole "open letters from professors" when in my head that was the main point I was going (got distracted by a jenkins build failing, my mistake). Anyhoo:

I also call certain religious attitudes dangerous and a threat to the progression towards a fairer society (the 'fabric of society', as it were), doesn't mean I'm calling for violent suppression of those religious attitudes, just an evaluation and reflection on the risks associated with an attitude or belief.

I posed open letters not just of Vice Chancellors. But I may have added them over several edits as I found them, been a sleep since then and now so don't remember. Anyway, those open letters show it's not just Vice Chancellors. Lots of regular professors in those ones.

As for that we would still have some access to EU universities, you seem arguing that they are saying the options are "no access" or "full access", but the problem is we would have reduced access to the talent and networks. Horizon 2020 and it's predecessors and successors are programs that, through their structures and centralised funding systems and such, provide encouragement and benefit for the international co-operation between universities as well as businesses that can reduce the hoops needed and impediments to jump through to set-up such co-operation.

Universities and research programs would have to go about it the longer, slower, and often less likely to get approved by all parties way. That is what losing access means.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 14, 2018, 02:42:33 pm

I think we're somewhat buggered, because we'll always be seen through the lens that we are just the European versions of American revanchism. Everyone hears us chant "Johnny make Great Britain gr8 m8" when we say "there is little hope for the future of the UK or our leaders."

Problem is, if you go onto facebook there are a disturbing number of people who are basically chanting "Johnny make Great Britain gr8 m8". The Express, The Sun and the Daily Heil haven't exactly gone out of business either, and keep selling copies basically pushing that exact line (with all the xenophobia and racism embedded in it's meaning). It's hard to not take that view when people other than the newspapers seem to be going out of their way to reinforce it. You can argue vocal minority, but I don't know anybody who doesn't have at least one family member who is part of that vocal 'minority'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 15, 2018, 10:50:36 am

Why would go on facebook

That's like willingly reading comment sections

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 15, 2018, 10:56:09 am

I have to confess that I take a perverse pleasure in reading comment sections.  Sometimes I skip the article and go to the comment section directly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 16, 2018, 03:36:35 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 15, 2018, 10:56:09 am

I have to confess that I take a perverse pleasure in reading comment sections.  Sometimes I skip the article and go to the comment section directly.

I like to read the article first, but.... yeah.

I get a heady mix of feeling superior, righteous anger and vindicated despair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 05:18:19 am

The English language has three words for the feeling of superiority, righteous anger can arguably be represented with zeal, but we lack a word for vindicated despair

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 05:19:49 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 05:18:19 am

but we lack a word for vindicated despair

Millenial?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ziusudra on September 16, 2018, 05:26:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 05:18:19 am

The English language has three words for the feeling of superiority, righteous anger can arguably be represented with zeal, but we lack a word for vindicated despair

Defeatism?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 16, 2018, 05:46:15 am

Quote from: Ziusudra on September 16, 2018, 05:26:56 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 05:18:19 am

The English language has three words for the feeling of superiority, righteous anger can arguably be represented with zeal, but we lack a word for vindicated despair

Defeatism?

Nah, defeatism is preemptive despair.  LW makes a bold point though, i had never really thought about it, and i'm a human thesaurus - I'll give it some thought this afternoon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2018, 06:18:02 am

"Vindicateddespair"

Use your fucking language son

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 06:23:56 am

Combining words like that is more a trait of the German language than of English though.

But since we already have taken schadenfreude and gesundheit from German, google tells me vindicated is bestätigt and despair is verzweiflung, so maybe "bestätigtverzweiflung"? Don't actually speak German so probably broke all of the grammar rules there though.

Plus it's too long and will not be as easily remembered by english speakers, whilst Gesundheit and Schadenfreude seem to have more staying power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2018, 06:29:44 am

use your language

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 06:34:58 am

My language is already a bastardised mashup of the Germanic and Romantic languages anyway, making it more of a mashup is perfectly reasonable given the historical precedence :)

(Also there isn't really an alternative to "bless you" in English since even if it's lost the religious connotations, I just don't feel comfortable going around blessing people. So sorta forced to stick with the German loan word of gesundheit there. No, I don't think I'm putting too much thought into it.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 06:44:04 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on September 16, 2018, 06:38:55 am

I wanted to make a remark on that knife control law: I don't really know anything about the UK, but isn't a law like that, you know, kinda un-enforceable? Any prison anywhere can show you that anything even remotely sharp can be fashioned into a weapon. Doesn't take a genius to fashion something formidable that could pass through a metal detector. Honestly, a law like that seems like it's daring criminals to get even more bold and depraved than ever before, especially with that bit with the police funding getting strangled? I'm not even sure what to make of the whole situation, but it's fascination reading about it from you guys; all we have in America is hundreds of pointlessly cruel shootings every year.

I suppose it's more about giving police the power to arrest someone for having a knife rather than having the elimination of street knives as a realistic objective

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 06:34:58 am

My language is already a bastardised mashup of the Germanic and Romantic languages anyway, making it more of a mashup is perfectly reasonable given the historical precedence :)
(Also there isn't really an alternative to "bless you" in English since even if it's lost the religious connotations, I just don't feel comfortable going around blessing people. So sorta forced to stick with the German loan word of gesundheit there. No, I don't think I'm putting too much thought into it.)

Every time you say bless you just think of its origins in the black plague. Then it'll have metal connotations

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 16, 2018, 06:52:13 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 06:44:04 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on September 16, 2018, 06:38:55 am

I wanted to make a remark on that knife control law: I don't really know anything about the UK, but isn't a law like that, you know, kinda un-enforceable? Any prison anywhere can show you that anything even remotely sharp can be fashioned into a weapon. Doesn't take a genius to fashion something formidable that could pass through a metal detector. Honestly, a law like that seems like it's daring criminals to get even more bold and depraved than ever before, especially with that bit with the police funding getting strangled? I'm not even sure what to make of the whole situation, but it's fascination reading about it from you guys; all we have in America is hundreds of pointlessly cruel shootings every year.

I suppose it's more about giving police the power to arrest someone for having a knife rather than having the elimination of street knives as a realistic objective

So, an expansion of 'technicalities' so police can be justified doing whatever they want?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 06:55:31 am

It's more that British law with possession of weapons is very focused around intent.

Carrying a knife for 'self-defence' is still regarded as carrying a weapon with intent to use it to threaten, injure or kill another person. And that is the actual thing that is illegal.

Preemptive self-defence is not allowed as an excuse. Heat of the moment self-defence is fine, so if assaulted in your kitchen pulling a knife off the kitchen table would be perfectly allowed, though will probably result in you being temporarily detained by the police for a bit of time whilst they do the initial investigation and questioning (to both prevent you from fleeing or interfering with any evidence, allow them to question you, and to protect you by making sure no reprisals are likely). British self-defence law is actually surprisingly permissive on that front, despite what the newspapers like to claim. Benefit of the doubt is actively encouraged for judges in areas where it may be considered legally grey.

Hence, if a police officer sees someone with a knife out of packaging, or searches someone and finds one, and they don't have an immediate and obvious practical reason to be possessing it, they have to power to arrest/detain them and/or seize the knife under the reasoning that it's possession of a deadly weapon with intent.

For example, Scout Leaders are allowed to take a variety of knives with them on the scout camping trips, but are expected to go be responsible with them at all times (obviously) and to go straight home and put them away in a secure location as soon as they are done acting as Scout Leaders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on September 16, 2018, 06:57:49 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 06:23:56 am

Combining words like that is more a trait of the German language than of English though.

But since we already have taken schadenfreude and gesundheit from German, google tells me vindicated is bestätigt and despair is verzweiflung, so maybe "bestätigtverzweiflung"? Don't actually speak German so probably broke all of the grammar rules there though.

Plus it's too long and will not be as easily remembered by english speakers, whilst Gesundheit and Schadenfreude seem to have more staying power.

The correct translation of vindicated in this context would be "gerechtfertigt", so gerechtfertigte Verzweiflung. No way to combine those two, though. Sorry.
The e needs to be added to gerechtfertigt because Verzweiflung ("despair") is female, because what else would it be.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 07:09:24 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on September 16, 2018, 06:52:13 am

So, an expansion of 'technicalities' so police can be justified doing whatever they want?

In theory, in practice the police mostly use it to scare kids into giving up knife and sword carry - the police'll arrest loads but like a 1/10th will result in something harsher than a warning, at least for people caught carrying the first time. It also has the social engineering effect of making carrying a knife a weird and taboo thing for law abiding society. Police can rarely do whatever they want, and are forced by logistics to just do what they can. Also basically everything MorleyDev said. In that regards I imagine it's much more about disarming the general populace than stopping criminals from acquiring knives, so that when normal people head down to the pub and inevitably have one too many pints, they don't end up doing something too stupid with a deadly weapon on their person

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 07:27:43 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 07:03:27 am

Quote from: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 06:45:19 am

Quote

Doesn't take a genius to fashion something formidable that could pass through a metal detector.

Yet, outside prisons, stabbing with home-made shivs isn't really much of a thing. That's a hypothetical, and it's not really borne out by experience or common sense. Home-made non-metal shivs just aren't as good at killing things as proper knives. There would already be a much bigger market for wooden or plastic knives if they were at all effective.
"Look out, he's got a sharpened stick!"
Sure, in prison they can sharpen a toothbrush and hold you down and stab you with it a bunch of times to kill you, for sure. But that's an enclosed environment where you can't get away, and they can take all the time in the world to plan the attack. Mugging people on the outside with just a sharpened toothbrush isn't going to be a very effective way of robbing people. Shivs work in prison because people are forced to live in very close proximity and they can carefully plan and time the attack - and they need to outnumber you 3:1 for it to really work. That doesn't mean they'd be a particularly effective weapon in the outside world.

Well, I mean... No. No, that's just wrong. Wooden knives/shivs are entirely capable of fucking you up. Same goes for hard plastic, a traditional stone stabby, ceramic, or fucking pasta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeNR0guNn70).

However, metal knives are durable, so they retain their edge and structural integrity even after a lot of repeated use.


The difference is how much effort people are actually willing to put into making the damn thing. Which, as it turns out, ends up not being a whole lot when the situation is a heat-of-the-moment type deal.

I can confirm, in the UK ceramic, plastic, glass, stone and other non-metal knives are illegal (unless you're using them domestically for preparing food). There's loads of modern high tech ones like carbon fibre knives, plastic composites which are hard and durable as fuck, and they do see use in London in order to bypass the occasional random search from police, who have metal detectors at their disposal. Improvised non-metal knives and shivs aren't just hypothetical either, with police having even confiscated ones that were made out of plastic rulers. Sharp sticks have been used to kill man since man learned how to sharpen sticks ;P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 07:33:46 am

Sure, but you can bet there isn't a 1:1 replacement when people don't have the more convenient killing devices. Say you ban carrying of knives, and say 20% of the would-be knife murders get replaced with makeshift-shiv murders, that's still an 80% reduction. So, while replacements with knives-for-guns are possible and replacement of shives-for-knives are possible ... in actual practical reality, the bans do in fact massively reduce the relevant crime frequency.

"But one guy might still get shivved no matter what you do" is no reason to backtrack on all weapons control and let people open-carry any and all types of weapons, but that seems to be the anti-weapon-control logic in a nutshell.

If you don't personally carry a big fucking knife around with you everywhere then you're undoubtedly safer if other people aren't allowed to. And frankly, if you pull a huge knife in self-defense that's just as likely to backfire as it is to scare the attackers off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 08:00:13 am

I was going to make some crack about repealing both knife and firearm bans at the same time, but I couldn't decide if the best example of that would be a musket with a bayonet, a gunblade, or a Sharps rifle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 08:23:03 am

Quote from: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 07:33:46 am

Sure, but you can bet there isn't a 1:1 replacement when people don't have the more convenient killing devices. Say you ban carrying of knives, and say 20% of the would-be knife murders get replaced with makeshift-shiv murders, that's still an 80% reduction. So, while replacements with knives-for-guns are possible and replacement of shives-for-knives are possible ... in actual practical reality, the bans do in fact massively reduce the relevant crime frequency.

The ban is only as useful as your ability to enforce it, so we've not seen an 80% reduction, we've only seen increases whether measured by deaths, reported incidents or crime survey by guns and knives and other weapons (anything from utility items like hammers or sports items like bats, to other things like knuckle dusters). In actual practical reality, you can't control knives when buying knives from the grocers to amazon is easy as fuck. I don't want to give the impression that shivs are the issue here, since they make up an immense minority of confiscated knives and swords, with such improvised shivs being found in schools with metal detectors (I can't find any statistics regarding the seizure of non-metal knives, only a police officer saying they find them from time to time (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/3628285/Plastic-knives-used-to-evade-metal-detectors.html)).

Quote from: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 07:33:46 am

"But one guy might still get shivved no matter what you do" is no reason to backtrack on all weapons control and let people open-carry any and all types of weapons, but that seems to be the anti-weapon-control logic in a nutshell.
If you don't personally carry a big fucking knife around with you everywhere then you're undoubtedly safer if other people aren't allowed to. And frankly, if you pull a huge knife in self-defense that's just as likely to backfire as it is to scare the attackers off.

Imo I only see two reasons to support disarming the general populace; the first is that high rates of depression and gun ownership converts too easily into high rates of suicide by gun, the second is that low rates of gun purchases subsequently reduces the noise generated when security services are looking for signs of terrorist plots. I used to believe there was a third - that disarmed civilians allows for disarmed police, but our police had to rearm due to terrorism anyways, and their morale is at an all time low with thousands of attacks against police nationwide everyday.
Disarming the public and making self defence outside of the home illegal hasn't made the public safer, it's just meant that those who can't afford private security have to guard themselves - ironically, encouraging them to travel in groups and arm themselves. Bloody awful, reflected right down to the youngest kids wearing the most expensive sportswear they can find, since that signals they've got protection from a gang. Armed or disarmed populace doesn't seem to predict the level of violent crime that populace will face. I tell you what I think stops people from getting shot, stabbed, bombed, burned or acid attacked - is good policing, good communities. I'll wall of text on that later :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2018, 08:26:40 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 08:00:13 am

I was going to make some crack about repealing both knife and firearm bans at the same time, but I couldn't decide if the best example of that would be a musket with a bayonet, a gunblade, or a Sharps rifle.

You can still affix a bayonet to modern weapons, theres just somewhat less of a practical reason to do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 08:40:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 16, 2018, 08:26:40 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 08:00:13 am

I was going to make some crack about repealing both knife and firearm bans at the same time, but I couldn't decide if the best example of that would be a musket with a bayonet, a gunblade, or a Sharps rifle.

You can still affix a bayonet to modern weapons, theres just somewhat less of a practical reason to do so.

I know, but saying "rifle with a bayonet [...], or a Sharps rifle" is poor form, and muskets are the most classically correct bayonet mounts anyways.

And if you're putting a bayonet on something that isn't a longarm, then you're just playing Borderlands ya daft ninny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 08:41:08 am

Outside of London our police are still unarmed, with specialised counter-firearms teams sitting on-call. They're dotted around most cities, often sitting in unmarked vans and respond very quickly, but most police officers are not carrying a firearm.

Aside from fears of escalation, another reason police resist being armed is that being able to assume a populace without easy access to firearms means they get to actually get physically close to people. American police have to be very conscious that someone could pull out a gun, and carry guns themselves to respond. Which also has the effect that they can't actually tackle a person, since that person would then be close enough to take their gun and use it in the scuffle.

British police use "dog pile on someone to take them to the ground and cuff them" when dealing with someone aggressive or violent that they can't talk down, and that is something they couldn't easily do if they were carrying firearms.

Speaking of talking people down, they also are actually taught how to deescalate a situation instead of immediately meeting aggression with aggression, so they do often manage to talk a person down anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 08:47:38 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 08:41:08 am

Outside of London our police are still unarmed, with specialised counter-firearms teams sitting on-call. They're dotted around most cities, often sitting in unmarked vans and respond very quickly, but most police officers are not carrying a firearm.

The main benefit of police being able to assume a populace without easy access to firearms is they get to actually get close to people. American police have to be very conscious that someone could pull out a gun, and carry guns themselves to respond. Which also has the effect that they can't actually tackle a person, since that person would then be close enough to take their gun and use it in the scuffle.

Oh yeah that's a good point. It also helps keep your police force in the mindset of uniformed civilian, and not warrior cop. It's a shame but the cuts to our Police have also resulted in cuts to community support officers

Quote

Since 2010-11 the Met’s general grant funding from the Government has fallen by more than £700 million or nearly 40 per cent in real terms on a like for like basis and in recent years the Met police have had to find more than £600m of cuts.
This has led to the loss of a third of police staff posts – down from 14,330 to 9,985, two-thirds of police community support officer posts – down from 4,607 to 1,591, as well as 114 police station front counters and 120 police buildings.

This does nightmares for keeping people close to police (https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/stark-reality-of-government-police-funding-cuts)

Quote from: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 08:41:08 am

British police use "dog pile on someone to take them to the ground and cuff them" as their main port of call when dealing with someone aggressive or violent, and that is something they couldn't easily do if they were carrying firearms.

Check out this one where they arrest a dude with a machete (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzPj_IaMzY)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 16, 2018, 08:51:52 am

Seen that video. Wheelie Bin: 1, Machete: 0 :)

Also I did that thing again where I edited my post xD Didn't want to double post, but also wanted to mention that it helps that British Police are trained in deescalation tactics, so do actually manage to often talk people down or keep them contained instead of causing them to become more aggressive and dangerous, something that apparently some American police forces are starting to look at actually teaching their officers to do. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41314562)

(Also interesting to read, the UK's National Decision Model (https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/national-decision-model/the-national-decision-model/) for such incidents).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 09:24:07 am

Also of note, that thing people keep mentioning where NYC has less murders than London?

It literally didn't happen for more than a single month (https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/15/new-york-murder-rate-is-much-higher-than-londons-new-figures-show-7717873/) - February. So, yup, people should stop repeating it as a meme since it was merely a statistical blip and not indicative of any trend. In May and June for example, NYC had three times the murders of London. One of the suggestions for why NYC dipped so low at the time is that there were excessive snowstorms in NYC in January / February meaning people stayed indoors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2018, 09:36:14 am

I've never heard that argument about NYC having less murders than London.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2018, 09:46:46 am

I have. A guy I know from the US was writing to me nonstop when I was staying in London about how it was very scary because of crime, and because the UK "is a police state" (yes, really).

I wouldn't say that London is my favourite place to live (I prefer small-to-medium-sized cities myself as far as qol is concerned... but then again I grew up in one. We all have our biases). But it's a country capital in Western Europe, not Gottham City. I didnt feel particularily unsafe, even though I was living in one of the (supposedly) worse neighbourhoods.

TBH my friend has a rather spotty record with fact-checkingn regarding Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 09:51:11 am

It was a commonly cited thing by pro-gun advocates a few months back. But it's based on a statistical anomaly that didn't last more than Feb, with March just barely coming even between the two cities. I was reminded of it, because on one youtube video linked today about gun control, people were using it as an anti-gun-control argument.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/gun-rights-group-cites-rising-london-murder-rate-example-failed-gun-control/

Quote

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation and chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said the recent spike in killings shows criminals are undeterred by England's civilian gun bans and strict gun-control laws. "Last year, London recorded 80 fatal stabbings, which only proves that guns aren't the problem, criminals are," Gottlieb said. "And when violent criminals don't have guns, they resort to other lethal weapons."

He said English civilians face a situation where they are forced to disarm but face criminals who do not obey the nation's laws.

Which is a pretty weird argument when you think about it. If people aren't being shot as often then clearly gun control is working to stop criminals having the guns. So that's point (1). Secondly, if criminals are stabbing people instead then you can just stab them back, right? Meaning you're actually no worse off than you would be if both of you had a gun. So that's point (2). Third, it's fairly clear that the rise in stabbings is going to be less than the fall in shootings. So the net result is you being less likely to be killed by criminals. It's not really rocket science here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2018, 09:56:09 am

If you have to resort to statistical anomalies to make your case, you really don't have a case. Not you specifically, just anti-gun-control arguments in general.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2018, 10:19:50 am

Spoiler: Stabbity stab (click to show/hide)

(https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1523283220-20180409.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2018, 10:33:32 am

Lol the fighter/warrior/barbarian (not sure which DnD class Seigwurst is supposed to be) vs Rogue argument.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 10:36:53 am

They call him Birk the Dirk.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2018, 10:43:04 am

Maybe the Siegwursts benefit from stabs by being there to dramatically finish the stabbees off. But would any of those stabs have any meaning if the Siegwursts had not been there to render the killing blow?

Most likely the most sound way is to have a  balanced ratio of Siegwursts and Birks and creating a cultural expression of ritualized fighting in which the people get and outlet for their flashy and spinny move reverence.

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 10:36:53 am

They call him Birk the Dirk.

Birk Borkasson

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 10:58:35 am

Don't need to be dead to be out of the fight... A good stab can leave someone in no position to fight back.

Siegwurst is just mooching off of Birk's hard work to make himself look better, without actually contributing meaningfully.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 11:23:56 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/wFOzTGx.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 11:53:29 am

In other, extremely important, news... Norwegian handball player Frank Løke has "stunned" and "horrified" audiences with his "ghastly" behavior during the latest episode of a popular TV series involving people dancing with each other. His dancing partner said of the incident: "What happened [at the dance] crossed a line".

What, you want details of his crime? You sick bastards. It pains and sickens me to even mention such despicable acts, but if I must...


...he showed up to the event and danced wearing only a mankini.

Spoiler: The Horror (click to show/hide)

(https://sumo.cdn.tv2.no/imageapi/v2/img/5b9d4cdb498e7f5967fdb2bc-1537035484441?width=970&location=list)

I'm thinking Norway should reinstate the death penalty, personally.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 12:29:36 pm

Spoiler: Very poor taste joke (click to show/hide)

Where's an Anders Breivik when you need one?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 16, 2018, 12:37:56 pm

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 11:53:29 am

In other, extremely important, news... Norwegian handball player Frank Løke has "stunned" and "horrified" audiences with his "ghastly" behavior during the latest episode of a popular TV series involving people dancing with each other. His dancing partner said of the incident: "What happened [at the dance] crossed a line".

What, you want details of his crime? You sick bastards. It pains and sickens me to even mention such despicable acts, but if I must...


...he showed up to the event and danced wearing only a mankini.

Spoiler: The Horror (click to show/hide)

(https://sumo.cdn.tv2.no/imageapi/v2/img/5b9d4cdb498e7f5967fdb2bc-1537035484441?width=970&location=list)

I'm thinking Norway should reinstate the death penalty, personally.

What confuses me is that his partner said that it was a terrible thing. Did he spring this on her? That would be the only objectional thing there, imo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2018, 12:39:01 pm

Quote from: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 11:53:29 am

In other, extremely important, news... Norwegian handball player Frank Løke has "stunned" and "horrified" audiences with his "ghastly" behavior during the latest episode of a popular TV series involving people dancing with each other. His dancing partner said of the incident: "What happened [at the dance] crossed a line".

What, you want details of his crime? You sick bastards. It pains and sickens me to even mention such despicable acts, but if I must...


...he showed up to the event and danced wearing only a mankini.

Spoiler: The Horror (click to show/hide)

(http://media.giphy.com/media/5yuC2vIsQJdoA/giphy.gif)

I'm thinking Norway should reinstate the death penalty, personally.

(http://i.imgur.com/z7Nipjz.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 12:51:45 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on September 16, 2018, 12:37:56 pm

What confuses me is that his partner said that it was a terrible thing. Did he spring this on her? That would be the only objectional thing there, imo.

Supposedly, that's exactly what he did. I'm not entirely sure how that happened, seeing as there tends to be a great deal of coordination involved with the routines, but eh.

I mean, he's done similar things before... He's previously gone through a Top Gun-themed dance number (with the same partner) before the grand finale, where he ripped his pants off to display the glittering stripper undies beneath. I'm not entirely sure what people expected, he has a reputation for being an unpredictable clown, and he's lived up to it on multiple occasions.


But yeah, people are talking about how she (his partner) worked really hard for this, and then he goes and prances about in that red little number there. And yeah, sure, if she's really put herself into this thing and legitimately expected him to not provocatively swaddle his willy, I can understand people being a bit miffed with him for screwing her over in that way.

There have been plenty of over-the-top angry comments about his lacking moral character and how he's effectively ruined the entire show for everyone forever, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 01:23:39 pm

Probably just manufactured outrage to boost the popularity of the show. People love tuning in to watch something after it's scandalous

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2018, 01:25:59 pm

If I had his body I’d wear a mankini erry day.

I mean, Anne Wideecombe was lowered to the stage via crane in the British version. I don’t think anything can beat that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 16, 2018, 01:30:21 pm

Quote from: Reelya on September 16, 2018, 09:24:07 am

Also of note, that thing people keep mentioning where NYC has less murders than London?

It literally didn't happen for more than a single month (https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/15/new-york-murder-rate-is-much-higher-than-londons-new-figures-show-7717873/) - February. So, yup, people should stop repeating it as a meme since it was merely a statistical blip and not indicative of any trend. In May and June for example, NYC had three times the murders of London. One of the suggestions for why NYC dipped so low at the time is that there were excessive snowstorms in NYC in January / February meaning people stayed indoors.

Apparently, revenge is not a dish best served cold.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2018, 01:38:41 pm

It doesn’t say the person serving it has to be cold too, man.

Where I am, last Winter one day the high temperature was expected to be -18 Celsius. The local schools didn’t even close.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 01:39:39 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 16, 2018, 01:30:21 pm

Apparently, revenge is not a dish best served cold.

It's best served with finest English cuisine of meat vinegar soup with salt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2018, 02:14:32 pm

Quote from: hector13 on September 16, 2018, 01:38:41 pm

It doesn’t say the person serving it has to be cold too, man.

Where I am, last Winter one day the high temperature was expected to be -18 Celsius. The local schools didn’t even close.

Most of the grunts in my platoon were in agreement that -16 to -18 is pretty much the ideal temperature... Not too cold, not wishy-washy-slushy-sloshy warm. Just the right temperature for when you're out in the field.

It's funny the things you get used to...

Quote from: hector13 on September 16, 2018, 01:25:59 pm

If I had his body I’d wear a mankini erry day.

Right? The dude's 38 years old. If you got it, flaunt it baby...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2018, 02:21:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on September 16, 2018, 01:25:59 pm

If I had his body I’d wear a mankini erry day.

If I had his body I´d get rid of it before the authorities noticed he was missing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2018, 02:57:16 pm

Honestly it's his body, his choice, why Nords gotta slutshame the slut

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Adam Mantine on September 16, 2018, 03:04:14 pm

Quote from: da_nang on September 12, 2018, 07:28:19 am

And lo, the EU sends us back into the Dark Ages. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-copyright/eu-lawmakers-agree-common-stand-on-copyright-reforms-idUSKCN1LS1QR)

Thank you, EU, for cementing EU-skepticism in my mind, you vile cretins.

It still needs to be ratified in December. People need to get active before then. If you live in Europe contact your MEP, if you don't live in Europe sign a petition or donate to an anti-web-censorship group like the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on September 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am

Since I highly doubt anybody would give enough of a shit to reverse it, how would the EU internet actually look like after this, and how would people deal with it without having their internet experience completely distorted? This just seems like something that is such a huge deal you got to wonder how people would let it happen. Even the politician these days use the Internet so I don't understand how they can express this SOPA-level of not-give-a-shit.

Would EU meme culture just... straight up cease to exist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 17, 2018, 07:10:54 am

Quote from: Ispil on September 17, 2018, 07:00:29 am

Anyone have a link to the actual text of the thing rather than an article that contains literally no details on what the thing does?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52016PC0593

Ref. 21 would be probably good to read through as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on September 17, 2018, 07:33:54 am

Quote from: Cinder on September 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am

Would EU meme culture just... straight up cease to exist?

EU meme culture wouldn't budge, since it would be protected under parody clauses regardless of any other changes, apparently.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on September 17, 2018, 07:50:07 am

Quote from: Frumple on September 17, 2018, 07:33:54 am

Quote from: Cinder on September 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am

Would EU meme culture just... straight up cease to exist?

EU meme culture wouldn't budge, since it would be protected under parody clauses regardless of any other changes, apparently.

Forgive me for any misunderstanding (not a lawyer or a programmer, so I get the double whammy of ignorance here) but isn't the issue not that anything would become illegal, but rather this puts in place requirements to look for illegal things that will inevitably  result in a lot of false positive. Parody and fair use don't get stricken down, but rather slowly strangled under the reality of article 13s requirement that "Information society service providers" have to put in place the ability to "prevent the availability on their services of works or other subject-matter identified by rightholders through the cooperation with the service providers. Those measures, such as the use of effective content recognition technologies, shall be appropriate and proportionate." IE: Youtubes copywrite filter, which has tons of false positives and abuse by copywrite trolls all the time. And for such a big service provider like reddit or youtube really doesn't care about the false positives, they just care about reducing their own potential legal troubles. Sure, memes or whatever are technically still legal, it's just too hard for an automated system to tell the difference between them and genuine copywrite infringement, so they are defacto banned by the systems put in place to stop infringement.

Then again, not a lawyer, so not sure if that's what the article actually requires (but afaik that's what people who are upset about it are reading from it, and it looks to me like it could mean that.) and not a programmer so I don't know the specifics of how "effective content recognition technologies" work, but given youtubes false positive rate and lack of care, it seems like it could be an issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 17, 2018, 08:04:31 am

Quote from: Frumple on September 17, 2018, 07:33:54 am

Quote from: Cinder on September 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am

Would EU meme culture just... straight up cease to exist?

EU meme culture wouldn't budge, since it would be protected under parody clauses regardless of any other changes, apparently.

I dunno, in the UK our judge ruled that context and intent don't matter, so parody will not protect you if the EU follows suit

basically

oi bruv u gotta loicense for dem memes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on September 17, 2018, 08:12:18 am

If memes were banned in the UK, would the police have to learn how to ask for licenses in legible non cockney (or whatever) English?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 17, 2018, 08:17:30 am

Quote from: Criptfeind on September 17, 2018, 07:50:07 am

And for such a big service provider like reddit or youtube really doesn't care about the false positives, they just care about reducing their own potential legal troubles.

They will, if it ends up cutting their traffic by half or some such.

One effect I can think of this might have, is sudden proliferation of 'this content is a parody' notifications everywhere. Maybe even encouraged by the service providers by providing tickboxes with a ready-made statement.
Kinda like what happened in Poland back when adverts of alcoholic beverages were briefly banned, which resulted in all beer companies ostensibly advertising alcohol-free beer with actors literally winking at the audience.
People tend to openly work around sufficiently unpopular legislature, is what I'm thinking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 17, 2018, 08:27:20 am

What if said meme originated in the US (which would be difficult to prove, but still, for hypotheticals sake)? Parody is protected speech over here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 17, 2018, 08:31:10 am

Quote from: Criptfeind on September 17, 2018, 08:12:18 am

If memes were banned in the UK, would the police have to learn how to ask for licenses in legible non cockney (or whatever) English?

Soon Britain with have Meme Detector Vans driving up and down all residential streets. They're able to hear through walls and detect any meme at 200 paces.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 17, 2018, 08:51:02 am

Kilroy is not here any more

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on September 19, 2018, 03:08:18 pm

They won’t be able to do this. The Internet is unimaginably huge, with no room in between it, and the world isn’t just google and youtube. If they want to enforce it, they will have to get every website on the internet that is based in Europe to install a filter, or face legal charges. I would appreciate the internet still being a free place, since after this, you probably won’t be allowed to upload anything on the topic of anything that can sue. It will destroy everything, and I’m conflicted as to whether I should be terrified and crying, or smug in that they can’t do this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 19, 2018, 03:49:11 pm

The way I see it, the Internet isn't a technology that we've invented like an airplane, where we can just keep making more of them so long as we know how. The internet is a singular mega project, like the Eiffel tower. It can be destroyed, and even if we rebuild it it won't be the same thing. It's easier to lose entirely than people realize, I think.

So, if the EU makes an internet law that cannot be enforced, but try to enforce it anyway, they could actually damage the internet, and then the "world-wide" web doesn't exist in Europe any more.
That's a worst case scenario, of course. But it's... possible?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 19, 2018, 03:53:29 pm

As I tried to make the point of in several posts, it's likely to run afoul of laws in countries outside the EU. I doubt Google, Facebook, etc are going to only enforce it for the EU, it'll be easier to just try to enforce it on everybody, which is where problems start.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 19, 2018, 04:03:30 pm

For the record Spain has been doing this for a few years and it doesnt really work. They did get google and some other big ones to remove google news access from the .es page (do google.whatever and you're still fine) but that's as far as it went.

Given that both are a poor decision by tech illiterate after lobbying by not much more savvy record companies I expect they'll pretty much mirror each other

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on September 19, 2018, 04:06:54 pm

I want a straight answer, since all I can find is fearmongering, faffing about with previous legislation, and everything in between. What does article 13 actually mean for the internet, what will it do to sites like bay12, and how likely is it that any of this is going to work.
Admittely, chairmanpoo answered the last one, so... Nevermind it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 19, 2018, 08:52:43 pm

Quote from: Ispil on September 19, 2018, 07:50:25 pm

Quote from: Imic on September 19, 2018, 04:06:54 pm

I want a straight answer, since all I can find is fearmongering, faffing about with previous legislation, and everything in between. What does article 13 actually mean for the internet, what will it do to sites like bay12, and how likely is it that any of this is going to work.
Admittely, chairmanpoo answered the last one, so... Nevermind it.

Having read it, it'll do nothing. The only time such a thing would ever be enforced is if a specific copyright holder went up to the website owner and asked for content to be removed. Only if the owner of the site refused could they stir a fuss with the EU about following proper legislation. All this law does is specify that they are liable should they not do this. Hence, it's not the EU that takes the first step in causing problems, but the copyright holder.

In short, it's a storm in a teacup.

But dude my memes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on September 20, 2018, 12:17:12 pm

Just when you thought we reached peak meme.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45586070
Trump urged Spain to 'build a wall' across Sahara, says minister

Build a wall across the Sahara and make the Africa Pay for it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 20, 2018, 12:31:31 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 20, 2018, 12:17:12 pm

Just when you thought we reached peak meme.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45586070
Trump urged Spain to 'build a wall' across Sahara, says minister

Build a wall across the Sahara and make the Africa Pay for it?

Quote

"The border with the Sahara cannot be bigger than our border with Mexico," Mr Borrell quoted Mr Trump as saying.

How the fuck is this even real life?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 12:44:26 pm

I saw that one, hard to tell if Trump was actually being serious or making a joke, nevermind the fact that Spain only has two tiny enclaves in Africa and depending on where you draw the line, there are between 4 and 6 countries that cover the Sahara which are not Spain.

Might as well build a wall on the Mediterranean at this point with that logic.

Also being INCREDIBLY STEREOTYPICALLY American with the geography fail, yeesh.

Quote from: Kagus on September 20, 2018, 12:31:31 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on September 20, 2018, 12:17:12 pm

Just when you thought we reached peak meme.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45586070
Trump urged Spain to 'build a wall' across Sahara, says minister

Build a wall across the Sahara and make the Africa Pay for it?

Quote

"The border with the Sahara cannot be bigger than our border with Mexico," Mr Borrell quoted Mr Trump as saying.

How the fuck is this even real life?

Obviously he meant the borders around the enclaves. :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on September 20, 2018, 12:49:18 pm

He meant the Saharan't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2018, 02:54:08 pm

Has he *seen* the border around the enclaves? It's a double ten meter fence with razor wire on top and people still jump over it. If anything it proves that Trump wall wouldn't work even if it could be built.

BTW I don't like how the far right has advanced worldwide, but it's worth noting that all this stuff Orban  has done recently (messing with separation of powers, dubious treatment of immigrants, et al) Spain has been doing for years with little response from the rest of European countries (indeed, no response until the recent refusal of some luducrous extraditation warrants).   And if the far right hasnt advanced much in Spain, I think the major reason is because they couldn't outcompete our conservatives, founded by an actual member of the fascist goverment

(http://mediterraneo.diario16.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/pp-franquismo.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 03:27:52 pm

It doesn't seem that worldwide. Europe and the US (Canada has been getting some streaks of Trumpism, however), yes, but most elsewhere? no. Haven't heard anything about it happening anywhere on the scale seen in Europe happening in South America (theres some stuff in Brazil, but I don't know if that's in the normal range for Brazil or not) for example. I have absolutely no clue about Africa and Asia though. Australia is also having a bit of a moment with it's own far-right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2018, 03:35:15 pm

Spanish Empire II, electric boogaloo?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 03:52:41 pm

Not sure what you're referring to specifically about the Spanish Empire, it losing it's colonies?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2018, 04:19:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 03:27:52 pm

It doesn't seem that worldwide. Europe and the US (Canada has been getting some streaks of Trumpism, however), yes, but most elsewhere? no. Haven't heard anything about it happening anywhere on the scale seen in Europe happening in South America (theres some stuff in Brazil, but I don't know if that's in the normal range for Brazil or not) for example. I have absolutely no clue about Africa and Asia though. Australia is also having a bit of a moment with it's own far-right.

The western world if you want. But South America has it´s own ongoing major problems (most notably Brazil and Venezuela, with Peru, Argentina and Colombia not far behind. And those are the ones I heard about).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 20, 2018, 04:21:05 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2018, 04:19:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 03:27:52 pm

It doesn't seem that worldwide. Europe and the US (Canada has been getting some streaks of Trumpism, however), yes, but most elsewhere? no. Haven't heard anything about it happening anywhere on the scale seen in Europe happening in South America (theres some stuff in Brazil, but I don't know if that's in the normal range for Brazil or not) for example. I have absolutely no clue about Africa and Asia though. Australia is also having a bit of a moment with it's own far-right.

The western world if you want. But South America has it´s own ongoing major problems (most notably Brazil and Venezuela, with Peru, Argentina and Colombia not far behind. And those are the ones I heard about).

Chairman, in Spain, do you get more Latin American news than other countries would?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 04:27:58 pm

All I've heard about 'Argentina problems' is that they are having debt and economic problems (primarily due to loans from the IMF) and the resulting political turmoil over it, nothing about the rise of far-right politicians.

Anyhoo, this is the EU/Europe/Europe+neghboring countries thread...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2018, 04:34:56 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on September 20, 2018, 04:21:05 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 20, 2018, 04:19:32 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 20, 2018, 03:27:52 pm

It doesn't seem that worldwide. Europe and the US (Canada has been getting some streaks of Trumpism, however), yes, but most elsewhere? no. Haven't heard anything about it happening anywhere on the scale seen in Europe happening in South America (theres some stuff in Brazil, but I don't know if that's in the normal range for Brazil or not) for example. I have absolutely no clue about Africa and Asia though. Australia is also having a bit of a moment with it's own far-right.

The western world if you want. But South America has it´s own ongoing major problems (most notably Brazil and Venezuela, with Peru, Argentina and Colombia not far behind. And those are the ones I heard about).

Chairman, in Spain, do you get more Latin American news than other countries would?

That´s a good question. I do have a vague feeling that I was getting more news concerning Latin America back home than here (Ireland). But then again I barely watch TV back home, and not at all in Ireland, so it´s whatever online newspapers I read. I don´t feel they talk a lot about Latin America TBH. In the last few months the major topics are the different ongoing national scandals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 10:09:02 am

*drives by on motorbike*

So how's that Brexit deal coming along?

*drives away, cackling as the grenade goes off*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on September 21, 2018, 10:15:22 am

Quote from: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 10:09:02 am

*drives by on motorbike*

So how's that Brexit deal coming along?

*drives away, cackling as the grenade goes off*

I can't believe that even EU threads are being targeted by suicide bombers now. Things have gone way too far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 10:29:03 am

Wut Redking?.....

Last I've heard, Theresa May is walking away from the negotiations (or things are otherwise at a stalemate) and preparing for a no-deal Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 10:37:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 10:29:03 am

Wut Redking?.....

Last I've heard, Theresa May is walking away from the negotiations (or things are otherwise at a stalemate) and preparing for a no-deal Brexit.

That's sort of my point. I'm waiting for the Leavers to furiously sputter that things will be fine and that it wasn't a mistake. Meanwhile, I'm considering a new business selling MREs and survival gear to Brits.


@George_Chickens: It's not a suicide bombing if I drive off...was thinking more of the PKK-style drive-by grenade attacks in Turkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 21, 2018, 10:49:35 am

Quote from: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 10:37:36 am

@George_Chickens: It's not a suicide bombing if I drive off...was thinking more of the PKK-style drive-by grenade attacks in Turkey.

You didn't specify where the grenade was when it exploded, though... Kinda like that Darwin Award-winner who used a live grenade to extort someone, then forgot to replace the pin before driving off.

I'm not entirely sure how he managed to miss the spring-loaded lever flying away as soon as he released it, but hey...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 12:18:42 pm

The primary sticking point still seems to be 'What the heck do we do with North Ireland?' What I can get of the gist of it is that the EU wants NI to be economically connected to Ireland, but Theresa May wants it to be connected with the rest of the UK. Basically, the EU wants to do something which is an absolute no-go for Theresa May and there are some things that Theresa May wants to do which are no-go for the EU, and neither side can find a solution that is acceptable to the other.

...

Maybe they should ask what North Ireland wants as it's stuck in the middle of all this? Also, I had a thought, 'what about Gibraltar?'. Seemed like the issue of Gibraltar got resolved pretty quick. It's not perfectly analogous, but still, it shares the same property of being connected by land border with another country while being separated from the UK itself by water.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 12:28:27 pm

Quote

The primary sticking point still seems to be 'What the heck do we do with North Ireland?' What I can get of the gist of it is that the EU wants NI to be economically connected to Ireland, but Theresa May wants it to be connected with the rest of the UK

Not quite. It has to do with the GFA and how it might work with the UK outside the SM.  Google it because even mentioning it is dangerous enough  :P

Quote

Maybe they should ask what North Ireland wants as it's stuck in the middle of all this?

Careful... you're circling closer and closer to a very  politically loaded issue and you'll catch flak from everyone

Quote

Basically, the EU wants to do something which is an absolute no-go for Theresa May and there are some things that Theresa May wants to do which are no-go for the EU, and neither side can find a solution that is acceptable to the other.

Well kinda obvious - but it has been like this for months. I predicted this back in May didnt I ? :p  basically the issue cannot be squared at all as it stands.  There is no way to make mutually exclusive principles not mutually exclusive

Quote

Also, I had a thought, 'what about Gibraltar?'. Seemed like the issue of Gibraltar got resolved pretty quick.

Well, it wasnt really resolved but it's less of a central issue. Worst case scenario is a closed border (or a full customs check border, which doubles as a closed-border-by-traffic-jam). It would suck for those crossing the border regularly but that's about it. It doesnt have the same potential for political violence as NIreland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 12:30:01 pm

Quote from: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 10:37:36 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 10:29:03 am

Wut Redking?.....

Last I've heard, Theresa May is walking away from the negotiations (or things are otherwise at a stalemate) and preparing for a no-deal Brexit.

That's sort of my point. I'm waiting for the Leavers to furiously sputter that things will be fine and that it wasn't a mistake. Meanwhile, I'm considering a new business selling MREs and survival gear to Brits.


@George_Chickens: It's not a suicide bombing if I drive off...was thinking more of the PKK-style drive-by grenade attacks in Turkey.

Dont you want shares in my Organization? I'm going to start an ibuprofen and toilet paper black market in the UK, using forumnites as mules and dealers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 01:06:44 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 12:28:27 pm

Quote

The primary sticking point still seems to be 'What the heck do we do with North Ireland?' What I can get of the gist of it is that the EU wants NI to be economically connected to Ireland, but Theresa May wants it to be connected with the rest of the UK

Not quite. It has to do with the GFA and how it might work with the UK outside the SM.  Google it because even mentioning it is dangerous enough  :P

Hrm, I found the full text of the GFA treaty and it doesn't go into economics much (just one small section), so, I'm confused how the economics come into play if it has to do with the GFA. I mean, I get how Theresa May wouldn't want to break that treaty, but why is the reporting saying they're arging over economic related things instead of Theresa May going 'We've got this uber sensitive treaty we have to deal with...' when the treaty itself barely involves economics at all. Maybe there are amendments and addenums added later that weren't in the original document, though wikipedia doesn't seem to mention any.

Quote

Quote

Maybe they should ask what North Ireland wants as it's stuck in the middle of all this?

Careful... you're circling closer and closer to a very  politically loaded issue and you'll catch flak from everyone

It was more of a hypothetical thinking off the top of my head and not entirely serious. I am aware of the political sensitivity of the issue. Then again, Theresa May would probably still say no regardless. Hopefully NI doesn't explode in even a no-deal Brexit because they're still going to have to deal with the same issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 01:32:42 pm

Quote

Hrm, I found the full text of the GFA treaty and it doesn't go into economics much (just one small section), so, I'm confused how the economics come into play if it has to do with the GFA. I mean, I get how Theresa May wouldn't want to break that treaty, but why is the reporting saying they're arging over economic related things instead of Theresa May going 'We've got this uber sensitive treaty we have to deal with...' when the treaty itself barely involves economics at all. Maybe there are amendments and addenums added later that weren't in the original document, though wikipedia doesn't seem to mention any.

The GFA is a fudge that allows people of very different sensitivities  to  define themselves as they wish without killing each other. That fudge is reliant on there not being a border to stop people from moving back and forth  or to throw grenades at for that matter. The lack of a border is reliant on there being a single market making border checks unnecessary.  The whole thing was based about both the ROI and the UK being in the EU. Remove that and we're suddenly in Terra Incognita

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 01:42:15 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 01:32:42 pm

Quote

Hrm, I found the full text of the GFA treaty and it doesn't go into economics much (just one small section), so, I'm confused how the economics come into play if it has to do with the GFA. I mean, I get how Theresa May wouldn't want to break that treaty, but why is the reporting saying they're arging over economic related things instead of Theresa May going 'We've got this uber sensitive treaty we have to deal with...' when the treaty itself barely involves economics at all. Maybe there are amendments and addenums added later that weren't in the original document, though wikipedia doesn't seem to mention any.

The GFA is a fudge that allows people of very different sensitivities  to  define themselves as they wish without killing each other. That fudge is reliant on there not being a border to stop people from moving back and forth  or to throw grenades at for that matter. The lack of a border is reliant on there being a single market making border checks unnecessary.  The whole thing was based about both the ROI and the UK being in the EU. Remove that and we're suddenly in Terra Incognita

Sounds like a no-deal Brexit would still have the potential to ignite NI. Theresa May is in a real 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'  situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2018, 03:24:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 01:42:15 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 01:32:42 pm

Quote

Hrm, I found the full text of the GFA treaty and it doesn't go into economics much (just one small section), so, I'm confused how the economics come into play if it has to do with the GFA. I mean, I get how Theresa May wouldn't want to break that treaty, but why is the reporting saying they're arging over economic related things instead of Theresa May going 'We've got this uber sensitive treaty we have to deal with...' when the treaty itself barely involves economics at all. Maybe there are amendments and addenums added later that weren't in the original document, though wikipedia doesn't seem to mention any.

The GFA is a fudge that allows people of very different sensitivities  to  define themselves as they wish without killing each other. That fudge is reliant on there not being a border to stop people from moving back and forth  or to throw grenades at for that matter. The lack of a border is reliant on there being a single market making border checks unnecessary.  The whole thing was based about both the ROI and the UK being in the EU. Remove that and we're suddenly in Terra Incognita

Sounds like a no-deal Brexit would still have the potential to ignite NI. Theresa May is in a real 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'  situation.

She's been in that situation since she blew a 20-point lead in 6 weeks. She's been needing to appeal to both the Remainers and Leavers in her party while trying to keep the DUP onside for the last, what, 15 months?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 03:30:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 12:18:42 pm

The primary sticking point still seems to be 'What the heck do we do with North Ireland?' What I can get of the gist of it is that the EU wants NI to be economically connected to Ireland, but Theresa May wants it to be connected with the rest of the UK. Basically, the EU wants to do something which is an absolute no-go for Theresa May and there are some things that Theresa May wants to do which are no-go for the EU, and neither side can find a solution that is acceptable to the other.

My understanding is that it's a bit the other way around. England wants Ireland and N. Ireland to continue having a more-or-less open border, because that's been good for keeping the peace and good for N. Ireland's economy. The EU says, "Nope, you want out, you're out." And that means treating the Irish-N. Irish border the same way that the England-French border will be -- checkpoints, customs, the whole nine yards. Trade between the two will slow down immensely, and for a lot of older Irish, it'll be a symbolic return to the days of the Troubles.

Now, at first glance, it might seem the EU is being an unreasonable hardass here, threatening peace and security over a border issue. But -- if they don't enforce the same border rules, you can beat your bottom dollar that British companies will figure out a way to exploit a soft Irish border to circumvent the hard border between Dover and Calais.

It's a bit of a shit situation, and one of the reasons most of Northern Ireland (especially the constituencies along the Irish border) voted Remain. Along with the fact that those areas tend to identify more as Irish than British, while the Unionist areas voted Leave.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on September 21, 2018, 04:11:42 pm

Ireland and her border has been the biggest complication in the Brexit deal. My opinion? The bastards shouldn’t have invaded us in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 21, 2018, 04:24:24 pm

to quote a character from red dead redemption,

i blame the mexicans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 21, 2018, 06:10:16 pm

Told you.

*smacks smjjames*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 07:13:29 pm

Eh? Imic is Irish, not NORTHERN Irish, I think. One person does not make a flame war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on September 21, 2018, 10:02:35 pm

Quote from: Imic on September 21, 2018, 04:11:42 pm

Ireland and her border has been the biggest complication in the Brexit deal. My opinion? The bastards shouldn’t have invaded us in the first place.

A British invader unionist RUC professor and Tory supporter was teaching a class on Oliver Cromwell, known Brit
"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Cromwell and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, almost as great as Margret Thatcher!"

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-Ireland Provo champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war against the Brits and fully supported all military decision made by the organization stood up and held up a potato.

"How much have the Brits blighted this potato?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite Britishly and smugly replied "None. The British had nothing to do with the potato famine."

"Wrong. British control of the farms caused reliance on one crop, and the British refused the famine aid proposed by several countries. Really makes you think, huh?"

The Brit was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and weapons he obviously had used to extort the Irish. He stormed out of the room crying those British Hun crocodile tears.

The students applauded and at least seventeen car bombs went off in the street that day and they all accepted Gerry Adams as their lord and saviour. An Armalite named "32 Counties" shot out of the room and blew a member of the Ulster Defence Association away. The Proclamation of the Irish Republic was read several times, and Bobby Sands himself showed up and enacted guerrilla warfare against the Brits across the country.

The professor lost his kneecaps and was fired upon the next day. He died of shame and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

That brave patriot's name? James Connolly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 21, 2018, 10:08:54 pm

Well done. Have a potato.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 10:28:21 pm

This James Connolly? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Connolly) There's also this rugby player (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Connolly_(rugby_union)), but he's too young to have been around for the troubles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 22, 2018, 03:18:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 07:13:29 pm

Eh? Imic is Irish, not NORTHERN Irish, I think. One person does not make a flame war.

We have both on the forum you nimrod! Now it's just a matter of time!
https://youtu.be/qBRKt9bQT10

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 22, 2018, 04:20:43 am

Heh, it's funny how Nimrod became an insult.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nimrod is a great hunter in the bible. In Looney Tunes, Bugs bunny called Elmer Fudd 'Nimrod' sarcastically, since Elmer is a terrible hunter, in the way you might say "way to go, Einstein!" to a dumb person. Kids didn't know who Nimrod was so assumed it was some insult.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 22, 2018, 04:25:58 am

Salzburg and chronic misreading (https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0921/995292-salzburg-chronic-misreading/)

You know I do get the feeling that British press, both pro and anti brexit, tends to misapprehend some stuff that seems obvious in continental EU and Ireland (based on my conversations from people from continental EU and Ireland).  I don't know if it's a delliberate agenda or a cultural breach. I've seen british people here echo those ideas so I'm leaning more on the latter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 22, 2018, 04:31:35 am

There's an Irish bartender who works at the pub I tend to frequent. I've never actually had him serving when I was ordering, but I know he works there.

I'm just waiting for the chance to show my cultural appreciation by ordering an Irish Car Bomb followed by a Black & Tan.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on September 22, 2018, 04:47:31 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 22, 2018, 04:31:35 am

There's an Irish bartender who works at the pub I tend to frequent. I've never actually had him serving when I was ordering, but I know he works there.

I'm just waiting for the chance to show my cultural appreciation by ordering an Irish Car Bomb followed by a Black & Tan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/G9P5XX/sinn-fein-leaders-ice-cream-break-G9P5XX.jpg)

Gerry Adams eating ice cream will be very disappointed with you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2018, 08:46:44 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 22, 2018, 04:25:58 am

Salzburg and chronic misreading (https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0921/995292-salzburg-chronic-misreading/)

You know I do get the feeling that British press, both pro and anti brexit, tends to misapprehend some stuff that seems obvious in continental EU and Ireland (based on my conversations from people from continental EU and Ireland).  I don't know if it's a delliberate agenda or a cultural breach. I've seen british people here echo those ideas so I'm leaning more on the latter.

Reading that, it seems at least in part cultural, both on the part of British press and those doing the negotiations. If Theresa May hadn't wasted time trying to get a better majority and the Salzburg meeting wasn't effectively a 10th hour thing, it might not be as big a deal.

It's probably also that since Brexit is such a huge freaking deal for both sides in the UK, there's an understandable tendency to shout the latest developments from the rooftops, so to speak.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2018, 12:43:29 pm

Theresa May is preparing for a no deal by setting the groundwork to blame it on the EU.

*sigh*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on September 22, 2018, 02:40:33 pm

The only solution left is to expel the Isles from Europe. Find your luck west of Brittany, for the Brits Brest detests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2018, 06:25:09 pm

The quest to see if it's possible to revoke Article 50 is getting sent to the EU's highest court. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45601394)

Just thought it'd be interesting to note the progress on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2018, 03:53:31 am

Meanwhile in the UK

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/8d071ac3dfe7b5ddbb10e99302cd2930/tumblr_pfh8woaCrH1s9y3qio1_640.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 23, 2018, 03:59:32 am

What's even better is that the owner's name is Darren Chick.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 23, 2018, 04:14:05 am

An African? And they're speaking Spanish?

Bloody immigrants...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 23, 2018, 05:28:05 am

Quote from: Imic on September 21, 2018, 04:11:42 pm

Ireland and her border has been the biggest complication in the Brexit deal. My opinion? The bastards shouldn’t have invaded us in the first place.

I quite agree. The Irish should also not have invaded Scotland and formed Dal Riata. The Normans should not have invaded England and created the seeds of an extended Angevin empire. Britain should not have invaded [Insert Country], America should not have invaded [Insert Country], China should not have invaded [Insert Country], Germany should not have invaded [Insert Country].

Though, as invasions go, the initial "invasion" of Ireland was rather tame. King Henry II had permission from the Pope to both claim Ireland and civilise it, a fact perhaps not appreciated now but which at the time made any intervention more than justifiable. He allowed an exiled King of Leinster to recruit his knights and sat back. Diarmat (the exile) offered a de Clare his daughter's hand as payment for help reclaiming his kingdom. Strongbow, as he came to be known, accepted and was on the reconquest of Diarmat's kingdom named his heir and succeeded to the kingdom.

So far perfectly legitimate.

Henry II got worried that one of his under-boys would get uppity and start his own Kingdom, much as his Norman ancestors had. He went over with a considerable force (arguably to escape Papal displeasure over the killing of Becket) and received the fealty of this Strongbow of the Anglo-Norman-Irish Kingdom. He then proceeded to exercise his God-given right to Ireland. The Irish clergy were over joyed at this cease to the perpetual turmoil which had gripped them, and wrote approvingly to the Pope. King Henry II named John his son as Lord of Ireland, a title beholden to the English crown but not belonging to it. Gradually more and more Irish sub-kings swore fealty to John.

That John became King and the title Lord of Ireland was subsumed by the English crown was a matter of chance, in that John was the youngest of four* sons.

*Can't remember exact number of sons, but I think it was four. Geoffrey, Richard, John and Henry.

Anywho, yes. Shouldn't have invaded and all, but as invasions go it was rather tame and remarkably legitimate for the times. It also seems to have granted King Henry the unwavering love of the Irish
clergy for his.... 'help'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2018, 07:24:11 am

*facepaln* ok Smjames. Whatever happens now is your fault. I want you to remember that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sluissa on September 23, 2018, 08:09:21 am

I admittedly don't know nearly enough to comment on this, and it might simply be some variant on blown out of proportion, but this thing happening in Finland seems... odd.

https://twitter.com/akihheikkinen/status/1043508304369078272 (https://twitter.com/akihheikkinen/status/1043508304369078272)

The TL;DR of it is: Some Russian shell company is buying up archipelago land near sea lanes, building fortified housing there, and buying up old Finnish Navy ships and docking them at/nearby. Then the Finnish government sends in the troops and invokes a no fly zone over the whole area. While investigating "financial crimes". Simply weird.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2018, 08:28:24 am

It's clear the soviets are trying to build their own chronosphere

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on September 28, 2018, 06:16:02 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 23, 2018, 08:28:24 am

It's clear the soviets are trying to build their own chronosphere

I was saddened that I can no longer play that ruski timetravel game on my rig.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 01:19:10 pm

Quote from: RedKing on September 21, 2018, 03:30:17 pm

My understanding is that it's a bit the other way around. England wants Ireland and N. Ireland to continue having a more-or-less open border, because that's been good for keeping the peace and good for N. Ireland's economy. The EU says, "Nope, you want out, you're out." And that means treating the Irish-N. Irish border the same way that the England-French border will be -- checkpoints, customs, the whole nine yards. Trade between the two will slow down immensely, and for a lot of older Irish, it'll be a symbolic return to the days of the Troubles.
Now, at first glance, it might seem the EU is being an unreasonable hardass here, threatening peace and security over a border issue. But -- if they don't enforce the same border rules, you can beat your bottom dollar that British companies will figure out a way to exploit a soft Irish border to circumvent the hard border between Dover and Calais.
It's a bit of a shit situation, and one of the reasons most of Northern Ireland (especially the constituencies along the Irish border) voted Remain. Along with the fact that those areas tend to identify more as Irish than British, while the Unionist areas voted Leave.

It's worth noting that the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made their agreements before their EU membership, or before the EU existed. What's more, the UK and the ROI have both been outside of EU integration such as in the border-less Schengen area, with the British Isles and the European continent operating at odds regarding a European state. If the EU allows the UK and the ROI to continue enjoying peace and prosperity whilst being outside the EU, they are obviously going to fret and concern that the UK leaving is going to create such a circumstance that the ROI cannot be integrated further into the EU without causing turmoil which will result in the ROI being ejected from the EU. In short, the EU is perfectly happy to let Britain deal with terrorism and sectarian violence if it means the EU is not threatened by further withdrawals; letting the ROI and NI be close while being close to a UK that is not under EU control is going to be a spicy issue long after, or if, Brexit is ever done

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 28, 2018, 01:23:20 pm

Feck it, I say. A border is better than no border.

It's better than a strong Theresa May loling her way through putting a border down the Irish Sea. Much better to have a weak May Fly who needs the DUP, annoying as they are, to keep her from doing something ridiculously uninformed and... well, English.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 01:34:59 pm

Good ol' British politics. The Leave party is led by a remainer and the Remain party is led by a leaver. The PM makes a plan which ends up getting opposed by the party, the shadow party, the DUP and the European Union. The Strong and Stable government isn't strong, stable or a government

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 02:05:13 pm

And if NI ever joins into ROI, the ROI is still going to have to deal with the same populations that have been clashing. Though I guess it'd be easier since ROI was never a pro*/an-tagonist (depending on which side you're on) in the whole deal that is modern NI.

*Not directly I don't think. It'd be more complex historically anyway.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 01:34:59 pm

Good ol' British politics. The Leave party is led by a remainer and the Remain party is led by a leaver. The PM makes a plan which ends up getting opposed by the party, the shadow party, the DUP and the European Union. The Strong and Stable government isn't strong, stable or a government

The BBC has recently been making it sound like Corbyn is/was/will attemping a political coup on May in order to become PM. I initially thought that's what it was, looked a bit more and it's just party conference politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 03:51:12 pm

WHAT WAS CORBYN IS
WHAT IS CORBYN WILL


...

WILL CORBYN WHAT?
WHAT WAS WILL BE NATIONALISED

At any rate Corbyn isn't couping May. He's just waiting until the general election where his chances of winning are high since Theresa May is fairly unelectable and only held onto her seat by virtue of holding the country hostage. Hilariously the Labour MPs are still trying to get rid of Corbyn because Corbyn is apparently unelectable, but chances are if they'd supported Corbyn in the last election they'd be ruling in Westminster today. Britpol is right now a race between whether the lions or wolves get to eat us

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2018, 03:59:20 pm

I just learned that the reason wine don't have content information on their bottles/boxes in the EU isn't just that they don't have to provide it and thus choose not to - they're actually forbidden to provide that information by law. The fuck what, EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 04:03:02 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 28, 2018, 03:59:20 pm

I just learned that the reason wine don't have content information on their bottles/boxes in the EU isn't just that they don't have to provide it and thus choose not to - they're actually forbidden to provide that information by law. The fuck what, EU?

I'm guessing the French because they don't want competition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2018, 04:04:27 pm

It's probably because the French don't want anyone to know the main ingredient in "French wine" is actually Spanish wine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 04:08:22 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 28, 2018, 03:59:20 pm

I just learned that the reason wine don't have content information on their bottles/boxes in the EU isn't just that they don't have to provide it and thus choose not to - they're actually forbidden to provide that information by law. The fuck what, EU?

https://blog.drinktec.com/wine/wine-bottle-labels-eu-standardization/
This thing says it's German beer and French wine that's most of the pressure for this, as their research shows consumers are less likely to buy a wine if they know it's had grape juice added for example

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 04:19:14 pm

But wine is just fermented grape juice.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 28, 2018, 04:26:35 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 04:19:14 pm

But wine is just fermented grape juice.....

Well... Not just. And there are a lot of ways of arriving at "fermented grape juice", some of which are more convoluted than others. Remember, distinguished names have a particular flavor profile that they need to maintain, and mother nature doesn't generally play nice on the consistency field. Sometimes you need to fiddle with the process in order to "fix" various batches.

Then there are preservatives like sulfites, which are at least mentioned in passing on most labels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2018, 04:36:42 pm

Mostly it's probably because Spanish wine is what makes French wine famous though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 06:19:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 04:19:14 pm

But wine is just fermented grape juice.....

You're gonna be damn angry if someone takes your 12 year claret and pours a litre of ribena in it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 28, 2018, 06:52:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on September 28, 2018, 06:19:12 pm

Quote from: smjjames on September 28, 2018, 04:19:14 pm

But wine is just fermented grape juice.....

You're gonna be damn angry if someone takes your 12 year claret and pours a litre of ribena in it

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redditmedia.com/uHk-ASz0CiL-vt8SdQJLiLa9j1TAjoN1adGsF773qOI.png?w=376&s=f1c4daa8c20263027922a79f9c12940a)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 28, 2018, 07:02:34 pm

*ahem* as the only person here who has actually been able to compare and contrast Spanish, Italian, French, and Portuguese wines (because let's be honest at moat you have drunk some Chilean or Australian knockoff..)

Red wine: I'd say Spanish and Italian red wines are mostly equivalent. A friend of mine who was an enologist told me back in   the day that in order to get good wine you need to grow the grapes in poor, dry soil. Winemaking regions in both countries are similar so it kind of fits. Obviously if you go for cheap ones you're going to be drinking horrible shit, but you can get quality at reasonable prices. Vega Sicilia is supposed to be the best, but  it's crazy expensive and I personally find Luis Cañas to be a pretty good red wine, and it costs you around 10-15. If you're so  cheap as to consider that expensive, you can get a cune for 6 euro. If you think THAT is too much you can get a brick of Don Simon for 2 € but at this point you should consider buying bleach instead.
As for French red wines, eh, I lied, I dont recall actually trying those. Moving on..


Whites: supposedly Galician whites are really good (eg Albariño)  but I dont really like white wine.  Worth noting, however, Txakoli, the ancestral white wine of the Basque Country. Remember that bit from my friend? About good wine coming from poor, dry soil? Well, Euskadi is as wet as amywhere else in the Atlantic coast, it's very green and beautiful, and subsequently  our wine is disgusting crap much like the stuff they try to brew in UK amd Germany. Avoid, even if you're only trying to get drunk. There are a number of regional drinks that will get you drunk faster and are marginally better.

Catalonian Cava vs Champagne:  I'm sorry to say but champagne beats cava hands down. Moet Chandon is OK, but I favor Veuve Clicquot. Likewise I think Grande Dame is slightly better than Dom Perignon.
I warn you however much of the mistique of Champagne is the scarcity/novelty. Drink it too often and you'll see it as just a fizzly white wine. I know first hand.

Beer: I strongly favor Belgian beer/trappist beer, but I'm contractually obligated by the HSE to say that Guiness is just as good or else I'll be deported.

Portuguese Port: sweetish red wine.  British people seem to like it, but they also drink wortesxershire sauce with water in planes, and according to the British consul the reason there are so many fatalities of British tourists is that they are not used to balconies, and therefore they don't know how to use them safely (https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2018/09/18/uk-diplomat-becomes-the-laughing-stock-of-twitter-after-trying-to-explain-balcony-deaths-in-spain/).
Goes without saying, British people are not very used to good red wine either, so take their endorsement of port with a pinch of salt.
Port is really good as a base for sauces though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 29, 2018, 02:10:36 am

Stop whining.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 29, 2018, 02:51:57 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 29, 2018, 02:10:36 am

Stop whining.

You're just seeing red now, because you're sour with envy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 29, 2018, 05:20:22 am

The primary mode of death for Norwegian tourists in other countries is that Norwegians don't look around when crossing the street, and just expect the traffic to predict their movements and adjust. Our streets are apparently a bit too safe/underpopulated, so people never learn to be cautious of traffic. Buncha dodos.

As for wines, it was my understanding that Germany exports all the terrible wines that they don't want to drink themselves, and keep the good wines as domestics.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot, it's been election season in Sweden. How are things going over there? Are the Sweden Democrats and the Liberal Democrats still fighting the Social Democrats?  Or has another vile force of democrats arrived?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 29, 2018, 05:29:11 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on September 28, 2018, 07:02:34 pm

*ahem* as the only person here who has actually been able to compare and contrast Spanish, Italian, French, and Portuguese wines (because let's be honest at moat you have drunk some Chilean or Australian knockoff..)

My Spanish relative has made it a point to attempt to educate our heathen family on wine, so I feel fairly secure in my bias.

But seriously. Spanish wine, which is very cheap because it hasn't got as good a reputation as other wines, is bought wholesale by French wineries and then mixed into the "french" wines to make them taste better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 29, 2018, 05:37:40 am

Well, you see, both the Spanish and the Portuguese are caretakers of immense repositories of facts related to their respective cultural histories and influence on the rest of the world, and a small portion of them are even true.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 29, 2018, 09:50:53 am

Disregard warnings, drink all the port

*EDIT
The British tourists aren't falling off of balconies because they're unused to them, the diplomat is just trying to save face because explaining why British and Irish are jumping off of the balconies for top bants is a lot more difficult (https://www.thelocal.es/20180723/dangerous-craze-surgeon-warns-on-balcony-jumping-trauma-in-balearic-islands)

Thought for the day: Calling British and Irish tourists drunk is redundant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 29, 2018, 10:15:29 am

It's a pleonasm like burning fire and cold ice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 04, 2018, 01:33:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on October 04, 2018, 11:14:10 am

I swear to God the British public-at-large have something wrong with them.

This really isn't a UK-specific trait though. Much of the English-speaking world seems to have this issue, but that may just be bias due to them having the most far-reaching news outlets... I mean, here in Norway, people still get completely shitfaced and have naked fistfights in the middle of the road in subzero temperatures, or just randomly stab each other on the weekends, but at least we still consider anti-vaccine and anti-abortion sentiments to be pretty negative influences.

And not a whiff of a flat-earther community either. Suppose that's a natural consequence of living in an excessively lumpy country...


...oh wait, no, hang on a minute... I just remembered one of my old roommates in the army, who defined "quality" as a direct measure of how many people liked something, and once had to be informed that you can't just run the faucet at all times "because water is free". Nevermind.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ghills on October 04, 2018, 01:38:53 pm

It's definitely not limited to a specific group of people.  Every society has a bunch of people who are flat out wrong and can't be convinced of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 04, 2018, 02:49:28 pm

I'd guess chalk it up (or 'mark it down' or whatever aphorism you prefer) to Brexiteer politicians not fully considering the ramifications (or they did and just don't care or figured the benefits outweighed the negatives) and selling Brexit as something with no negatives at all.

And yeah, not surprised at politicians not getting that SOCIALIZZZSSMMSZZ!!!!11!!!1!1 =/= Communism/Socialism, and I get annoyed by it here. So much that nearly every time I hear a politician use the word socialism to say something negative about something, all I hear is 'thing I don't like'. It's like the word 'socialist' has lost all meaning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 05, 2018, 01:25:29 am

Lol, dancing queen.  She has ambitions to take over the throne now?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 05, 2018, 01:48:42 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

The European Union would be pleased to offer amnesty to you wayward shitposters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 05, 2018, 05:57:49 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 05, 2018, 01:48:42 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

The European Union would be pleased to offer amnesty to you wayward shitposters

Just like Satan offers amnesty from his devils

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 05, 2018, 09:20:50 pm

UK went fasting on the world market for 45 years, where it was tempted by the EU. The EU took UK to the highest mountain, from which all the markets in Europe could be seen, and said: 'All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.' UK replied 'Get away, EU! It is written: "The Queen, your Sovereign, shall you worship and her alone shall you serve."' When the EU had finished all this tempting, UK left her until an opportune time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 06, 2018, 02:15:25 am

An analogy comparing EU to satan seems appropriate. It is, after all, a racist establishment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 06, 2018, 02:36:23 am

Come now, where's this coming from? Satan is not racist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 06, 2018, 02:53:22 am

Not true!

 Satan is the ORIGINAL deiphobic god-hater, and likewise harbors decidedly genocidal intent toward H. Sapiens!

The only demographic that he holds in high regard is his fellow angelic beings!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 06, 2018, 02:57:21 am

Eh. If the thing really wanted us all dead, there's not a lot that would prevent that from happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 06, 2018, 03:02:42 am

No no no no.

You misunderstand.


The genocidal intent is not just "Kill them all"-- it is "Force GOD to have to destroy them, with the final death."

This is because Satan hates god for elevating mankind over angelic kind, and placing them higher on the spiritual totem pole than himself-- Mankind having been created out of (as satan sees it-- "inferior") clay/dirt, where he and the other angels are made of "living fire"-- AND in the image of God Him/Her/Itself no less, where they (angels) were not.

It is not enough to simply *kill* all the humans, No no no.  He wants to make it *HURT* really bad for the man upstairs, by forcing *HIM* to do the killing, with no remaining chance for redemption.

Understand? :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 06, 2018, 03:07:13 am

Quote from: wierd on October 06, 2018, 02:53:22 am

Not true!

 Satan is the ORIGINAL deiphobic god-hater, and likewise harbors decidedly genocidal intent toward H. Sapiens!

The only demographic that he holds in high regard is his fellow angelic beings!

But that's speciesism. With regards to race, Satan is an equal opportunity tormentor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 06, 2018, 03:25:31 am

Sure it is-- It's systemic racism against H. Sapiens, with preference for directly-created angelic beings. 

Simply because he does not have a preference for any individual color variant of H. Sapiens, does not make it any less racist--  The race he holds in contempt is all human kind, while the race he holds in preference is the one he himself is a part of.  This is a no brainer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 06, 2018, 03:48:17 am

Oh, come on. If I don't like bugs, that don't make me no racist. If I hated a specific colour of one species of bugs, that would be as bad as the EU undoubtedly is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 06, 2018, 03:51:26 am

Closer would be:

"So what if we found another race of intelligent beings out there in the local group--- That does not make me a racist bastard for wanting to kill them all!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 06, 2018, 05:52:23 am

Quote from: wierd on October 06, 2018, 03:51:26 am

Closer would be:

"So what if we found another race of intelligent beings out there in the local group--- That does not make me a racist bastard for wanting to kill them all!"

The French?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 06, 2018, 05:57:47 am

No, the methane breathing sentient protoplasms on tau ceti V.

I mean, they dont even occupy their star's habitable zone, use an exotic biochemistry, and breathe fart gas for crying out loud. It's hard to see why I dont want them living in my neighborhood! (/sarcasm)  That and they are just so damned ugly!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 06, 2018, 05:58:34 am

I heard they make excellent butt plugs tho

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 06, 2018, 09:53:34 am

Wait, Juncker's not an alcoholic?

Drat, that would have explained much of his policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 06, 2018, 11:34:56 am

Druncker lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 06, 2018, 01:32:16 pm

By such nom-logic, he is surely a junky.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 10, 2018, 08:33:13 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759

Surprised to see justice served. And with a side of icing, no less!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 10, 2018, 09:04:21 am

The requested slogan on the cake was overtly political, so it's dubious whether a refusal to make that was discriminatory. I think part of an argument that could be made is that the shop would have refused to make that cake for anyone, not just a gay person.

Free speech is one thing, however it kind of crosses the line when it becomes "compelled speech" and it can be argued that being forced to legally produce goods with political messages on them that you disagree with is now in the realm of "compelled speech". Any has the right to write political slogans on a cake themselves, they don't have the right to compel others to write those slogans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 10, 2018, 09:06:09 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 10, 2018, 09:04:21 am

The requested slogan on the cake was overtly political, so it's dubious whether a refusal to make that was discriminatory. I think part of an argument that could be made is that the shop would have refused to make that cake for anyone, not just a gay person.

This is also specifically the argument they did make.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 10, 2018, 09:06:40 am

That WAS the argument which was made, and ultimately the one which won them the case. Personally I think it's an inordinate spending of money on an issue which should have been a simple case of live and let live.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 10, 2018, 09:09:37 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 10, 2018, 09:06:40 am

That WAS the argument which was made, and ultimately the one which won them the case. Personally I think it's an inordinate spending of money on an issue which should have been a simple case of live and let live.

Yeah, but what do I know? Maybe they're legitimately the only custom-order pastry baker in the entirety of Great Britain, and the cake was part of a kidnapper's ransom demands for the client's only child?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 10, 2018, 09:16:47 am

Or he was being a douche and deliberately picked a well-known Christian bakery for the lols.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 10, 2018, 09:22:15 am

He should have picked the Anarchist Bakery down the street. You can get shortbread with the complete works of Bakunin on it there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on October 10, 2018, 09:22:54 am

what the fuck is this case even, why is this not frivolous

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 10, 2018, 09:25:05 am

It is frivolous. But this is what the great fight for equality is reduced to. Once the great giants of opposition are slain, one must resort to quibbling over pastry.

Edit:
I suppose I should also note in a more serious tone that the Supreme Court's ruling does have some implications concerning what businesses are required to do when conscience contests equality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 10, 2018, 10:54:47 am

The track of Hurricane Michael looks like it'll remain a storm and hit parts of Ireland and southern England and maybe France next Monday-Tuesday. It'll be what, the third time the isles got drenched like that this year? Don't know how common that is, but from how rainy I hear England is anyway, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 10, 2018, 10:59:58 am

Europe should be used to getting America's sloppy seconds by now  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Caz on October 10, 2018, 11:38:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

is this the thread where we get to watch society collapse in real time?

/cries in british

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2018, 06:45:05 pm

Quote from: Caz on October 10, 2018, 11:38:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

is this the thread where we get to watch society collapse in real time?

/cries in british

wake me up

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

can't wake up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 10, 2018, 07:05:47 pm

Can she do it?!?!?!

Yes she.... May.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 10, 2018, 08:43:13 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2018, 06:45:05 pm

Quote from: Caz on October 10, 2018, 11:38:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 04, 2018, 06:27:54 pm

JUST MURDER MY COUNTRY UP FAM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCDFNRA-Wo)

is this the thread where we get to watch society collapse in real time?

/cries in british

wake me up

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

can't wake up

Britain+Brexit=Broken

Own it. Bask in it. This is shining future you asked for.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 12:21:08 am

Quote from: RedKing on October 10, 2018, 08:43:13 pm

Britain+Brexit=Broken

Own it. Bask in it. This is shining future you asked for.

I'm pretty certain I was never asked for anything about no 70 year old dancing Queens sinking lofty Albion

Also if Britain + Brexit = Broken, then it should stand to reason that making everything 2Broken will give me 2Britain and 2Brexit

Checkmate atheists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 11, 2018, 12:27:34 am

If you Brexit twice, won't you just end up back in the EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 11, 2018, 12:35:45 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 11, 2018, 12:27:34 am

If you Brexit twice, won't you just end up back in the EU?

Exiting from the state of having exited

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 12:38:40 am

Quote from: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 11, 2018, 12:35:45 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on October 11, 2018, 12:27:34 am

If you Brexit twice, won't you just end up back in the EU?

Exiting from the state of having exited

[A s c e n d e d   p o l i t i c s]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2018, 02:02:49 am

I'm so exited
And I just can't hide it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on October 11, 2018, 08:03:12 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 10, 2018, 09:25:05 am

Edit:
I suppose I should also note in a more serious tone that the Supreme Court's ruling does have some implications concerning what businesses are required to do when conscience contests equality.

I expect that corporations will refuse things on moral grounds, no matter how obtuse or curious the reasoning, and then change positons when suitable to deny other things.  After all, opinions change, eh?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 12:21:08 am

Also if Britain + Brexit = Broken, then it should stand to reason that making everything 2Broken will give me 2Britain and 2Brexit

Featuring Vin diesel and The Rock (No, he is not Dwayne Johnson, piss off)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 09:22:47 am

Brexit 2: The Breckoning, starring Nicholas Cage as Theresa May

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 11, 2018, 09:48:28 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 09:22:47 am

Brexit 2: The Breckoning, starring Nicholas Cage as Theresa May

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.gifer.com/NPci.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:00:21 pm

So, Norway is currently involved in a large-scale military exercise, and the US decided to send one of their aircraft carriers along for the fun.

The Nimitz-class "Harry S. Truman" is one third of a kilometer in length and can house more aircraft than the entire air force of Norway.


And yet we have nationalist parties who are convinced that Norway can just tell everyone to fuck off and build a viking castle full of oil while flipping the bird at the rest of the world...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 11, 2018, 02:05:08 pm

You might have a hard time fitting those 4 C-130s onboard. But otherwise.....umm, yeah.

Another fun fact: The Nimitz' crew is about double the personnel in the Royal Norwegian Air Force.

Big ship is big.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 11, 2018, 02:13:20 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:00:21 pm

And yet we have nationalist parties who are convinced that Norway can just tell everyone to fuck off and build a viking castle full of oil while flipping the bird at the rest of the world...

I want to live in a world where the Norwegian nationalists commandeer the carrier and build a Viking castle full of oil on its deck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 02:23:14 pm

Then Norway could make an aircraft carrier that looks like a Viking castle and fill it with oil. :) Well, jet fuel anyways, most aircraft carriers these days are nuclear powered.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 02:31:26 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:00:21 pm

So, Norway is currently involved in a large-scale military exercise, and the US decided to send one of their aircraft carriers along for the fun.

The Nimitz-class "Harry S. Truman" is one third of a kilometer in length and can house more aircraft than the entire air force of Norway.


And yet we have nationalist parties who are convinced that Norway can just tell everyone to fuck off and build a viking castle full of oil while flipping the bird at the rest of the world...

Do you believe the Americans would truly freedom bomb Norway for what oil they retain?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:45:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 02:31:26 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:00:21 pm

So, Norway is currently involved in a large-scale military exercise, and the US decided to send one of their aircraft carriers along for the fun.

The Nimitz-class "Harry S. Truman" is one third of a kilometer in length and can house more aircraft than the entire air force of Norway.


And yet we have nationalist parties who are convinced that Norway can just tell everyone to fuck off and build a viking castle full of oil while flipping the bird at the rest of the world...

Do you believe the Americans would truly freedom bomb Norway for what oil they retain?

If we were completely isolated, not members of NATO or the EU, and not important allies of the remaining members? Probably. Them or the Russians. Probably not with so much fanfare as invading and dropping bombs, but definitely some political infiltration and destabilization in order to install a puppet government.

Norway controls some very tasty oil fields, and we've got fuckall population/military. Yes, some of the most terrifying spec ops in the world along with some elite units like TMBN, but they just don't have the numbers to fight a war on their own, and the national guard is a total joke (we didn't have bullets). And our counterintelligence also just isn't up to snuff compared to the big kids.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 11, 2018, 02:46:51 pm

Hey, we gotta spend all this military budget on someone, may as well be Norwegians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 02:52:48 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:45:21 pm

If we were completely isolated, not members of NATO or the EU, and not important allies of the remaining members? Probably. Them or the Russians. Probably not with so much fanfare as invading and dropping bombs, but definitely some political infiltration and destabilization in order to install a puppet government.

Norway controls some very tasty oil fields, and we've got fuckall population/military. Yes, some of the most terrifying spec ops in the world along with some elite units like TMBN, but they just don't have the numbers to fight a war on their own, and the national guard is a total joke (we didn't have bullets). And our counterintelligence also just isn't up to snuff compared to the big kids.

I can see Russians annexing Norway's islands and arctic claims but the USA is unlikely

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 03:04:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 02:52:48 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:45:21 pm

If we were completely isolated, not members of NATO or the EU, and not important allies of the remaining members? Probably. Them or the Russians. Probably not with so much fanfare as invading and dropping bombs, but definitely some political infiltration and destabilization in order to install a puppet government.

Norway controls some very tasty oil fields, and we've got fuckall population/military. Yes, some of the most terrifying spec ops in the world along with some elite units like TMBN, but they just don't have the numbers to fight a war on their own, and the national guard is a total joke (we didn't have bullets). And our counterintelligence also just isn't up to snuff compared to the big kids.

I can see Russians annexing Norway's islands and arctic claims but the USA is unlikely

Probably more likely that Sweden would decide to intervene. Sure, they try to be the Switzerland of Scandinavia, but they aren't quite as neutral as they show themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on October 11, 2018, 03:44:05 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:45:21 pm

Yes, some of the most terrifying spec ops in the world along with some elite units like TMBN...

Misread as TMNT for a second there. No worries when the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles are protecting your country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 04:51:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 03:04:48 pm

Probably more likely that Sweden would decide to intervene. Sure, they try to be the Switzerland of Scandinavia, but they aren't quite as neutral as they show themselves.

Sweden cannot protect itself, how would it intervene in Norway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 04:54:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 04:51:43 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 03:04:48 pm

Probably more likely that Sweden would decide to intervene. Sure, they try to be the Switzerland of Scandinavia, but they aren't quite as neutral as they show themselves.

Sweden cannot protect itself, how would it intervene in Norway?

They would call down Thor?

lol....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 04:55:00 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 04:54:01 pm

They would call down Thor?

lol....

Norway and Sweden have joint custody

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 05:03:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 04:55:00 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 04:54:01 pm

They would call down Thor?

lol....

Norway and Sweden have joint custody

Of the oil fields? Didn't know that. Or do you mean the god Thor??

Thought you were being non-serious rather than asking a serious question about the US and didn't notice a transition to talking seriously if there was one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 05:12:16 pm

Quote from: Rowanas on October 11, 2018, 03:44:05 pm

Quote from: Kagus on October 11, 2018, 02:45:21 pm

Yes, some of the most terrifying spec ops in the world along with some elite units like TMBN...

Misread as TMNT for a second there. No worries when the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles are protecting your country.

Nah, climate's too cold, and we have shitty pizza. Also, you think people can afford to live in the sewers here? Pah, luxury!

And yeah, basically our "in the event of an invasion" plan is to go cry mummy to the rest of NATO and have them step in. That, and start an underground resistance movement to make Norwegian real estate even less desirable than it currently is... Something we happen to have a history of doing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 11, 2018, 05:24:44 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 11, 2018, 05:03:26 pm

Of the oil fields? Didn't know that. Or do you mean the god Thor??

Thought you were being non-serious rather than asking a serious question about the US and didn't notice a transition to talking seriously if there was one.

Joint custody of Thor

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 12, 2018, 04:44:37 am

You can't call down Thor. That would escalate any conflict. Soon you'll have the Russians bringing in Baba Yaga and Koschei the Deathless! Perun and Czernobog! It's madness, mutually assured deicide! The world would never be the same! Man, it would be so cool.

One imagines the US would be at a disadvantage here from the lack of old mythology, unless they can tap into Native stuff or go the American Gods route with gods of Oil and Media and the like. The God Gap is a real and pressing danger.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 12, 2018, 04:56:17 am

Bible belters could probably whip up a vengeful God from the OT's recipe book.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on October 12, 2018, 07:47:34 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 12, 2018, 04:56:17 am

Bible belters could probably whip up a vengeful God from the OT's recipe book.

BEARS! Bears are a reasonable response to someone insulting your baldness!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 12, 2018, 11:29:49 pm

Oh hey, looks like Hurricane Leslie is going to hit Portugal. https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at3.shtml?cone#contents

When is the last time Portugal got hit by a hurricane? Leslie kind of drunkenly wandered around the central Atlantic before deciding to target Portugal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 14, 2018, 02:33:32 pm

Dutch minister of Defense has stated that the cyberattacks at the OPCW mean that we are at war with Russia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on October 14, 2018, 02:36:14 pm

How literal is he being? I am pretty sure it is not good form for a minister of defense to carelessly use the words "we are at war with X"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 14, 2018, 02:44:44 pm

Not literal in the sense of international legal terms, but she still used the word war on national tv.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2018, 02:45:59 pm

Quote from: andrea on October 14, 2018, 02:36:14 pm

How literal is he being? I am pretty sure it is not good form for a minister of defense to carelessly use the words "we are at war with X"

State of cyberwar (https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2018/10/14/1852671/netherlands-in-cyber-war-with-russia-defense-minister) to be specific

Though Russians have been testing Anglo-Dutch response times (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/14/russia-attempting-provoke-dutch-royal-marines-arctic-circle/) in the Arctic circle

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 14, 2018, 07:19:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2018, 02:45:59 pm

Quote from: andrea on October 14, 2018, 02:36:14 pm

How literal is he being? I am pretty sure it is not good form for a minister of defense to carelessly use the words "we are at war with X"

State of cyberwar (https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2018/10/14/1852671/netherlands-in-cyber-war-with-russia-defense-minister) to be specific

Though Russians have been testing Anglo-Dutch response times (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/14/russia-attempting-provoke-dutch-royal-marines-arctic-circle/) in the Arctic circle

Maybe they should be given a good scare with a shot off the port/starboard bow, heh. Maybe not literally, don't want to scare them TOO badly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on October 14, 2018, 09:50:02 pm

Borrow some british fishing boats.
I think the russian navy has never won a battle against british fishing boats. Their presence might scare the russians into going away.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2018, 09:53:42 pm

You'll have an easier time finding a cat's footstep than a British fishing boat these days

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 14, 2018, 09:58:25 pm

I would say just open a can of tuna to find the cat’s footstep, but I guess that requires the fishing boats in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 14, 2018, 10:06:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2018, 09:53:42 pm

You'll have an easier time finding a cat's footstep than a British fishing boat these days

Dunno.  Apparently, there's still enough to follow the true British pasttime: feuding with the French (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45337091).

EDIT:
Heh, which was originally posted in the thread by you yourself.  Well, the joke still stands. ^_^

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2018, 10:15:01 pm

SCALLOP BOIS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 15, 2018, 03:50:51 am

The secret final ingredient of gleipnir: a British fishing boat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 18, 2018, 02:13:40 pm

UK Parliament advised by researchers that memes lead to obesity. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/health/internet-memes-obesity-intl/index.html)

LW soon to be declared a public health crisis.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2018, 02:22:40 pm

The way they're putting it, might as well ban language alltogether. How the hell are they going to regulate memes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 18, 2018, 02:40:58 pm

(https://i.imgflip.com/2kf8y2.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2kf8y2)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2018, 03:05:46 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 18, 2018, 02:13:40 pm

UK Parliament advised by researchers that memes lead to obesity. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/health/internet-memes-obesity-intl/index.html)

LW soon to be declared a public health crisis.  :P

Quote

Now, academics have told British lawmakers that internet memes may be contributing to the UK obesity crisis and doing harm to teenagers on a significant scale.

And people wonder why I do not consider the state of being highly educated to necessarily correlate with intelligence or wisdom

I got me proper memeing loycense an everythin

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 18, 2018, 03:55:42 pm

This is just bad research. The average meme poster actually weighs 66kg. Loud Whispers, who weighs 559,000kg, is an outlier and should not have been counted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 18, 2018, 04:02:57 pm

Whispers have consistant weight whether loud or quiet

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 18, 2018, 05:07:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 18, 2018, 04:02:57 pm

Whispers have consistant weight whether loud or quiet

Farts are far more uneven. Even so, it is advisable to check one's pants if they feel heavier than usual

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on October 18, 2018, 05:37:41 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 18, 2018, 03:55:42 pm

This is just bad research. The average meme poster actually weighs 66kg. Pathos, who weighs 559,000kg, is an outlier and should not have been counted.

FIFY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2018, 05:49:34 pm

Well, it's certainly the terrible jokes thread now XD

Anyhow, I thought the March 29th 2019 date was something that the EU couldn't change? or maybe were unwilling to change. Rhetorical question because word is that (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45903124) Theresa May might ask for an extsionson (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45897253) and Brussels said that they are ready to give an extension if asked for one. The extension would be for another 21 months (enough time for a snap election or two) to December 2020.

It hasn't been extended yet, the EU is just saying that they're willing to.

Also, Nigel Farage says that it would mean he could fight in the next EU election. (https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-says-longer-brexit-transition-means-he-could-fight-eu-election/) Or he wants to run* for Prime Minister, not sure which.

*Yes, I know that's not actually how it works.

Also, I should mention that Merkel seems like her political days are numbered, so, extending it another 21 months risks going through leadership change that may or may not have harder positions than the current leadership does.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 18, 2018, 05:54:19 pm

You've badly misread that. The extension is for the transition period, not the exit negotiations, which are still as blocked as ever.  No exit deal = no transition period so it's not really meaningful to all this stuff. It is only meaningful if there is an exit deal. I think the reason it's being suggested is because the transition period was supposed to act as a bridge to a trade deal and given how fucked up the exit deal is going they assume they'll need more time for a trade deal, if it gets there

At any rate the transition period  wouldn't involve EU representation afaik

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2018, 06:08:43 pm

Nigel Farage is certainly misrepresenting it if the cutoff date isn't wnat's being extended, or he's just as badly misinterpreting it as I did.

I guess this bit probably led to me further misunderstanding it: "After "Brexit Day" on 29 March next year things would carry on largely as they are now, with the UK entering a "transition period". This gives authorities and companies time to adjust.

The UK would remain in the single market and customs union and would still be subject to EU rules."

Since I get it better now, assuming Theresa May doesn't waste time with a snap election and starts negotiations right away (they started exit negotiations like after the halfway point...), 21 months should be plenty of time to get something down, extending it would just show an inability to get a deal down. If they were this: || close to getting a deal done in late 2020, I can get extending the transition time a few months to give them some cover, otherwise it just looks like she (or her successor) is unable to get one down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 18, 2018, 08:01:07 pm

You’d certainly think 21 months was enough to get something done, but the way they dealt with (so far) the first 19 months makes me feel any extension on that is just allowing them to reload the colon to shit the bed even more.

I mean she was told the EU is not going to compromise their principles in an exit deal, so obviously the best thing to do is to figuratively stick your flag on the hill that is a deal that will make the EU compromise one of their principles, and choose that as the place you’re willing to die, then having the gall to say that it’s the EU that are taking the piss when they say “uh, no.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2018, 08:29:25 pm

Not to mention that an extension could run through the next regular UK elections which will complicate things even more, which Farage might have been getting at.

Not sure why Farage thinks he'd still be in EU Parliament in 2020 if that's not actually going to be the case. Unless he maybe plans on moving to France (absurd, I know, right?) and running for EU Parliament from there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 18, 2018, 08:30:06 pm

Quote

A picture of an overweight child with the caption "Free food? Count me in!" was sent along with the letter as an example of a meme the researchers found dangerous.

The academics were also concerned by a meme that created a human-like body from pictures of pizzas and hamburgers, with frankfurters used for limbs and a smiley-faced potato for a face.

The body was captioned "me" and placed alongside images of three well-defined bodies for comparison.

I don't really get what they're talking about here. Neither of these contribute to obesity. The first one associates eating too much with getting fat. If anything, that's going to spur people to go on diets, thus creating more anorexic people, not obese people. The second meme also makes the connection that junk food causes you to have a bad body.

The people who think these sorts of connections are "promoting" obesity are the types who cannot understand irony.

For example, imagine you make a meme "Milk? No Thanks" and show a smiling guy with missing teeth. By their logic this would cause people to reduce their milk intake to get that nice gappy smile like the guy in the meme. The fact is, people don't make their decisions based off one meme. If you show people the fat kid / free food meme or the one joking about how junk food is not compatible with good bodies then that gets them thinking about what they eat and how it relates to their body. What do they really think the one saying "me" is a pizza-body and that's contradictory to looking good is really encouraging people to slob-out for that ideal pizza body?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2018, 10:42:57 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 18, 2018, 03:55:42 pm

This is just bad research. The average meme poster actually weighs 66kg. Loud Whispers, who weighs 559,000kg, is an outlier and should not have been counted.

I'm actually just a computer hooked up to an extremely large subterranean potato colony battery

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 19, 2018, 10:35:51 am

@Reelya: Well, it is the UK. Dental hygiene isn't exactly a national value.  :P

In other UK Memetastic news, Facebook has hired Sir Nick Clegg, former LibDem leader, as their Head of Global Affairs. Worst hire, or THE worst hire? I mean, look at what he did for the LibDem brand over his tenure...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 19, 2018, 10:36:06 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2018, 10:42:57 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 18, 2018, 03:55:42 pm

This is just bad research. The average meme poster actually weighs 66kg. Loud Whispers, who weighs 559,000kg, is an outlier and should not have been counted.

I'm actually just a computer hooked up to an extremely large subterranean potato colony battery

Darn Irish memebots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2018, 11:40:20 am

Quote from: RedKing on October 19, 2018, 10:35:51 am

@Reelya: Well, it is the UK. Dental hygiene isn't exactly a national value.  :P

In other UK Memetastic news, Facebook has hired Sir Nick Clegg, former LibDem leader, as their Head of Global Affairs. Worst hire, or THE worst hire? I mean, look at what he did for the LibDem brand over his tenure...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EyNvA8T.jpg)

Once the newguard, then the oldguard, now dropping like flies. I'd much admired Clegg as one who continually tried his best despite the depths of his failures being unfathomable; but unlike the serpents of the Tory party, Clegg had the human capacity to admit they had failed and been defeated by quite literally everyone they faced. Watching him get verbally slaughtered by Nigel in 2014 or get trashed by Osborne for not taking the education fees freeze reminds me in a way of what was to come of Jeb Bush. A nice guy, yeah, but woefully unprepared for dealing with politicians who oppose them.
But joining Facebook?
The depths of my disappointment are incalculable, but in a way, it was inevitable.

Quote

"I'm not especially bedazzled by Facebook. While I have good friends who work at the company, I actually find the messianic Californian new-worldy-touchy-feely culture of Facebook a little grating."

-Nick Clegg, 2016.
He's sold his soul. Turns out the price of a man's soul is just a £4M salary, and the man who was DPM slides off the viceroy's throne and into the merchant's
stall to help Facebook avoid regulators and Her Majesty's Taxman.

A warning too, to Europeans. This is further proof that Brexit will not stop Britons from being hired by Americans to control Europeans. You should all be grateful that Nick Clegg has a tragic past record of delusion & disconnection from reality, but be concerned that less famous and more diligent bureaucrats continue to make the career leap from Westminster and Whitehall to Brussels

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on October 19, 2018, 02:45:01 pm

Next up: Alex Jones hires Farage to be his Minister of Gay Frog Water.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2018, 03:00:09 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 19, 2018, 02:45:01 pm

Next up: Alex Jones hires Farage to be his Minister of Gay Frog Water.

Gay Frog Water? French Wine?

*EDIT
In more serious news, the West Yorkshire grooming gang have been jailed for their roles in targeting British girls into child prostitution (https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/sixteen-jailed-over-200-years-part-grooming-gang). Many of the perpetrators are still yet to be found, as their victims couldn't identify them because they never spoke English. These activities have been going on nationwide for the last 40 years and despite the victims continually coming forward to police, judges - one even wrote to the Prime Minister, they were ignored until a Times reporter collected enough evidence to force our politicians' hands in 2012. Prior to that, we had MPs who investigated the matter threatened with prosecution for hate speech, while after the Times blew the lid we had police concoct ridiculous stories about how thieves broke in to steal important records - and only the records which happened to deal with them turning a blind eye to Pakistani grooming gangs out of fears of being called racist. Whether Labour or Conservative MPs, both have over the course of the years had their careers ended by trying to speak out on the matter, most recently with the Labour Shadow Secretary for Women and Equality Sarah Champion. The aptly named Sarah Champion concluded that government officials had been paralysed by the fear of being called racist instead of tackling child abuse, the consequence was her being called racist and subsequently being forced to resign from her post. Rather poetic tbqh
Coverage of the grooming gangs has been by and large muted, owing to court orders for silence and much of the media companies being rather embarrassed by being seen as racist or having been complicit in the coverup, but it'll rarely compare to the sheer hell I'll rarely forget of a girl being booed by a BBC studio audience for saying her friend's handlers were Pakistani. It doesn't even matter if Pakistani researchers or female MPs or even the victims come forward, year after year any time one of them has urged an inquiry into the matter they've been quashed rather quietly and swept under the rug. I have no hope for the future and fully expect the majority of grooming gang members to die of old age as free men and not only will the majority of the public not care; they will not even know it happened

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 19, 2018, 10:07:25 pm

Quote from: RedKing on October 19, 2018, 10:35:51 am

@Reelya: Well, it is the UK. Dental hygiene isn't exactly a national value.  :P

Lol, it's funny but in fact the truth is the opposite. Brits get dental coverage under NHS, Americans do not. You get stories about people in the USA with middle-class jobs doing home dentist work because it's so expensive.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/17/british-teeth-us-dentistry-oral-health

Quote

Study squashes myth of terrible dentistry as it finds Americans have more missing teeth and worse oral health if poor
...
The study showed that the average number of missing teeth was significantly higher in the US (7.31) than in England (6.97), and that people were more likely to suffer poor dental health because of socioeconomic factors if they lived in the US.

Free market to the rescue. And by rescue, I mean that the free market rescues us from having to see all the Americans with missing teeth on television.

Quote

They added: “There is a longstanding belief in the United States that the British have terrible teeth, much worse than US citizens. This view dates back at least 100 years, with toothpaste adverts extolling the virtues of American smiles. Contemporary examples of this belief in popular US culture range from The Simpsons to the Hollywood character Austin Powers and his repugnant smile.”

So it turns out to be a pre-WWI myth spread by toothpaste companies. I guess that good densitry is a national value of the USA in a similar sense to all those aspirational sitcoms about people becoming millionaires and living in mansions. :D

But i guess the stereotypes go both ways. When i think of toothless people, the go-to image is of rural Americans, not the British.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2018, 10:22:12 pm

NHS dental coverage does however have asterisks attached to coverage based off of age & services, while the Tories are determined to privatise it all anyways. Free market takes no prisoners

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 19, 2018, 10:25:27 pm

NHS and other public health systems still offer more than the USA does. I'm reading that the USA's Medicaid program has no requirements whatsoever for adult dental care (unless the state involved spends their own additional money on it), however they are required to provide dental care for children under the program. So, your kids can get dental, that's all, assuming you qualify for medicaid, which isn't a given.

USA's Medicare program for seniors doesn't cover almost any dental stuff either, unless you're in hospital for another reason and they have to do certain dental things because of that. The entire medicare webpage on dental is exactly one paragraph long saying that it's not covered:

https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/dental-services

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2018, 01:24:40 pm

Merkel urges other European leaders to cease selling weapons to Saudi Arabia altogether in light of Khashoggi being dismembered by 16 Saudi agents in a Turkish embassy (https://www.ft.com/content/6be62fa2-d5d0-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 22, 2018, 01:32:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2018, 01:24:40 pm

Merkel urges other European leaders to cease selling weapons to Saudi Arabia altogether in light of Khashoggi being dismembered by 16 Saudi agents in a Turkish embassy (https://www.ft.com/content/6be62fa2-d5d0-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713)

1. Paywalled
2. It was a Saudi consulate in Turkey, not a Turkish embassy
3. Have the Turks released the proof that he was dismembered, that they have claimed to have?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 22, 2018, 01:48:25 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 22, 2018, 01:32:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2018, 01:24:40 pm

Merkel urges other European leaders to cease selling weapons to Saudi Arabia altogether in light of Khashoggi being dismembered by 16 Saudi agents in a Turkish embassy (https://www.ft.com/content/6be62fa2-d5d0-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713)

1. Paywalled
2. It was a Saudi consulate in Turkey, not a Turkish embassy
3. Have the Turks released the proof that he was dismembered, that they have claimed to have?

They said they were going to do that tomorrow, though I didn't hear anything about it being specifically proof that he was dismembered.

They HAVE however, released evidence (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/22/cctv-footage-appears-to-show-jamal-khashoggi-body-double-in-istanbul) showing a 'body double' (https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/22/middleeast/saudi-operative-jamal-khashoggi-clothes/index.html) walking around after Khashoggi was killed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 01:45:16 pm

American tourist from Louisiana foils heist attempt of an original copy of the Magna Carta (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46002385)

The new sequel to National Treasure is looking pretty good tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on October 28, 2018, 01:50:54 pm

Quote

Salisbury Cathedral has said it is to review its security after a man tried to steal a Magna Carta.

How many of these have you been hiding from us? Is this just the tip of the Salisberg?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on October 28, 2018, 01:54:13 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on October 28, 2018, 01:50:54 pm

Quote

Salisbury Cathedral has said it is to review its security after a man tried to steal a Magna Carta.

How many of these have you been hiding from us? Is this just the tip of the Salisberg?

While there are numerous subsequent copies, there are four surviving officially attested copies in the name of the king.  In addition to this one, the British Library has two and a fourth is at the Lincoln Cathedral.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 28, 2018, 03:14:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 01:45:16 pm

American tourist from Louisiana foils heist attempt

What? I don't get it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 03:43:10 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 28, 2018, 03:14:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 01:45:16 pm

American tourist from Louisiana foils heist attempt

What? I don't get it.

Inventor of the glass? The article doesn't mention a tourist, so, I don't get it either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 04:05:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 03:43:10 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 28, 2018, 03:14:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 01:45:16 pm

American tourist from Louisiana foils heist attempt

What? I don't get it.

Inventor of the glass? The article doesn't mention a tourist, so, I don't get it either.

BBC, the well known Russian propaganda alt-news, censored the glorious freedom totin hero of the day (https://nypost.com/2018/10/27/american-tourist-tackled-hammer-wielding-thief-trying-to-steal-magna-carta/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 04:09:06 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 04:05:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 03:43:10 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on October 28, 2018, 03:14:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 01:45:16 pm

American tourist from Louisiana foils heist attempt

What? I don't get it.

Inventor of the glass? The article doesn't mention a tourist, so, I don't get it either.

BBC, the well known Russian propaganda alt-news, censored the glorious freedom totin hero of the day (https://nypost.com/2018/10/27/american-tourist-tackled-hammer-wielding-thief-trying-to-steal-magna-carta/)

Well, you're the one who linked the BBC article...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 04:11:06 pm

BBC news is the British Broadcasting Corporation

They are not actually Russia that we know of

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 04:15:43 pm

*facepalm* I know that, I'm just saying you're the one who posted the link that excluded the tourist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 06:14:26 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 04:15:43 pm

*facepalm* I know that, I'm just saying you're the one who posted the link that excluded the tourist.

I am missing context

I did not question myself for posting the BBC unironically

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 28, 2018, 06:26:05 pm

Did somebody have an aneurysm? Am I having an aneurysm?
Meesa confused.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2018, 06:37:52 pm

it's all miscommunication all the way down

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2018, 06:43:02 pm

Yeah, it's just a bit of miscommunication. I knew he was shitposting by calling it Russian and was just being like 'well, you're the one who posted the BBC link, not me' and confusion apparently ensued.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2018, 07:41:39 am

Merkel to step down as Party leader of CDU in December (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46016377)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 05:06:08 pm

Performance review by the Civil Service finds that the Civil Service failed Amber Rudd, resulting in her political career terminating prematurely. (https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/civil-servants-let-down-amber-rudd-over-immigration-targets-ex-perm-sec-finds)

I despise Amber Rudd and I'd find the whole situation bloody hilarious if it didn't worry me. Ok well, I do find the whole situation hilarious anyways, but it's still concerning - I just wish this were an episode of Yes Minister and not the British government.
For context, Amber Rudd was a particularly ambitious but also unimaginative & dare I say, unknowledgeable figure in British politics. She was appointed Home Secretary (in charge of domestic security, immigration, policing - a tremendously important post) by Theresa May, but the civil service had other plans. Repeatedly Amber Rudd asked her colleagues opponents in the civil service whether the Home Office was targeting Windrush-gen Britons in immigration probes, repeatedly she was told 'no,' in front of the public and in front of the House of Commons.
Of course, the Home Office was targeting Windrush-gen Britons in immigration probes, leaving a considerable amount of egg on Amber Rudd's face, forcing her resignation. Afterwards, the civil service concluded that they did in fact know the truth, and merely miscommunicated the wrong answer to Amber Rudd by mistake :^(

Quote

'an official review concluded she was “not supported as she should have been”.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA
The civil service, it's full of clever people and it shows. Whenever they want to get rid of a minister all they do is hand them a shovel and watch them dig

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 02, 2018, 06:42:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 05:06:08 pm

Afterwards, the civil service concluded that they did in fact know the truth, and merely miscommunicated the wrong answer to Amber Rudd by mistake :^(

Happens to the best of us, eh guv?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 07:01:17 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 02, 2018, 06:42:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 05:06:08 pm

Afterwards, the civil service concluded that they did in fact know the truth, and merely miscommunicated the wrong answer to Amber Rudd by mistake :^(

Happens to the best of us, eh guv?

Regretful mistakes happen all the time. Also for clarification, as I realise now the way I worded it left ambiguity, Amber Rudd told the public & committee that there was no Windrush migrant probe/deportation quotas, the Civil Service told Amber Rudd the 'no' in private

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 02, 2018, 09:28:15 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 07:01:17 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 02, 2018, 06:42:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 05:06:08 pm

Afterwards, the civil service concluded that they did in fact know the truth, and merely miscommunicated the wrong answer to Amber Rudd by mistake :^(

Happens to the best of us, eh guv?

Regretful mistakes happen all the time. Also for clarification, as I realise now the way I worded it left ambiguity, Amber Rudd told the public & committee that there was no Windrush migrant probe/deportation quotas, the Civil Service told Amber Rudd the 'no' in private

A likely story for this "clarification". I demand you resign now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 02, 2018, 09:34:27 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 02, 2018, 09:28:15 pm

A likely story for this "clarification". I demand you resign now.

/me has determined that regretfully Loud Whispers was not as clear as they should have been, yet the variable levels of support for dialogue was obfuscated by unique pressures and miscrossed-wires of person to person forumite interlocutation suggesting a mitigating circumstance to what may be construed as an unfortunate accidental miscommunication. Clearly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 10, 2018, 08:16:25 am

The Norwegian Christian Peoples Party recently had a slight "crisis of faith" and gathered to officially decide whether they were going to stay the course and retain their alliance with the currently governing Conservative party, or if they were going to abandon them and ally with Labour on the other side of the aisle. This decision was followed with some interest by everyone, because if they did decide to swap sides, that would mean Labour's coalition would have the majority in parliament and a change of cabinet (including the PM) would be in order.

As it turns out they stayed the course, again (this idea has been brought up more than once in the party), and so everything is hunky-dory (well, save for the inevitable very unhappy split in the Christian Party between the people trying to embody Christian values and those trying to embody angry old religious traditionalists)... Except now KrF (Christian Party) is bringing up a topic that's pretty central to their political agenda, and that pretty much no one else wants to talk about: Abortion.

I'm guessing the party leadership was trying to make enough noise to get the governing party, Høyre (Right/Conservative), to pay little KrF a bit more attention. Like "hey, we almost toppled your government, gib support now pls".

So now the PM is waffling her hardest on the Right to Abortion Law (which is a law, and has been for 40-some years now), in particular one paragraph regarding medical provision for late-stage abortion in the case of "acute birth defects" afflicting the fetus. The KrF leader, in all his wisdom (he is a cleric after all), has called this paragraph "discriminatory against people with Downs Syndrome", because obviously what that paragraph is saying is that we should specifically kill all people with Downs.


And then the fighting started.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 08:20:35 am

Norway should just be a province of Finland tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 10, 2018, 10:30:48 am

Well, there’s been a Denmark-Norway and a Sweden-Norway, so I guess Finland-Norway is the logical next step. With your oil and our alarmingly high rate of alcoholism, suicide and depression, we’ll be unstoppable!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 10, 2018, 10:45:24 am

Or maybe have all four of them combine into one grand state of Scandinavia? ;) Whether Iceland and the Baltic states should join is up in the air I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 11:02:07 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 10, 2018, 10:45:24 am

Or maybe have all four of them combine into one grand state of Scandinavia? ;) Whether Iceland and the Baltic states should join is up in the air I guess.

Unacceptable
It can only be Great Finland
Or the Kingdom of Cnut

Quote from: Digital Hellhound on November 10, 2018, 10:30:48 am

Well, there’s been a Denmark-Norway and a Sweden-Norway, so I guess Finland-Norway is the logical next step. With your oil and our alarmingly high rate of alcoholism, suicide and depression, we’ll be unstoppable!

[Nervous Russia intensifies]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 10, 2018, 11:15:30 am

You shouldn't Russian to that kind of thing.

Dammit, Ninja'd by a Whisper.

Hold on, Kingdom of Cnut? Are you Cnuts? That includes England!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 11:25:29 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 10, 2018, 11:15:30 am

You shouldn't Russian to that kind of thing.

Dammit, Ninja'd by a Whisper.

Hold on, Kingdom of Cnut? Are you Cnuts? That includes England!

Yes, and the next part of my master plan would be to have the Kingdom of Cnut invaded by Australia, so as to make the new national greeting 'OI CNUT'
Thus the British Isles would at last reach the apex of human civilisation as God intended

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2018, 12:00:05 pm

That's Knut to you, filthy briton

Or actually, it would be Knot to you. Do not take Knot's name in vain!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 10, 2018, 12:05:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 11:25:29 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 10, 2018, 11:15:30 am

You shouldn't Russian to that kind of thing.

Dammit, Ninja'd by a Whisper.

Hold on, Kingdom of Cnut? Are you Cnuts? That includes England!

Yes, and the next part of my master plan would be to have the Kingdom of Cnut invaded by Australia, so as to make the new national greeting 'OI CNUT'
Thus the British Isles would at last reach the apex of human civilisation as God intended

Muahaha, but you forget! Our Northern proclivities prevent us from making verbal contact with other people, rendering your Australo-Scandinavian greeting mute and void!

Britannia, Britannia
Britannia rules some shit...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 12:08:27 pm

Britons never never never shall make eye contact on the tube

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 10, 2018, 01:30:24 pm

Something something rectal. Something something plenty of lube

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 11, 2018, 04:33:53 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 10, 2018, 01:30:24 pm

Something something rectal. Something something plenty of lube

Pounded in the ass by the Kingdom of Cnut.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 11, 2018, 04:39:09 pm

Quote from: Teneb on November 11, 2018, 04:33:53 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 10, 2018, 01:30:24 pm

Something something rectal. Something something plenty of lube

Pounded in the ass by the Kingdom of Cnut.

My longboat is tarred and fully staffed. Prepare your fjord.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 11, 2018, 04:42:58 pm

Are you a Frankish trading ship? 'Cause I want to board you and cover you with my sea-men.


...........

I debated pressing 'Post'. This is possibly the dirtiest joke I've ever personally created.
I feel sullied.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 11, 2018, 05:03:17 pm

Norwegians has that effect on people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2018, 05:03:45 pm

It's why they always win Eurovision

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 11, 2018, 06:38:44 pm

Norway hasn't won Eurovision a single time

The only time they did it was won by a Swedish artist with a song by a Swedish songwriter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 11, 2018, 06:48:40 pm

I thought Sweden was in Norway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2018, 06:53:15 pm

No that's Finland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 11, 2018, 07:00:38 pm

*fist in pocket intensifies*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 12, 2018, 02:29:40 am

Quote from: scriver on November 11, 2018, 07:00:38 pm

*fist in pocket intensifies*

Excuse me sir, are you masturbating in public?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on November 12, 2018, 02:33:02 am

To be fair, I think the Danes are more open about that sort of thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 12, 2018, 09:21:54 am

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on November 12, 2018, 02:33:02 am

To be fair, I think the Danes are more open about that sort of thing.

Just about what you'd expect from the Dutch

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on November 12, 2018, 11:29:52 am

This thread is really living up to the "EU-related terrible jokes" name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2018, 11:34:56 am

In the words of a famous american national skald: "Laughter's just another word for nothing left to loose"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 05:08:04 pm

Quote

A Brussels-controlled army itself is a pipe dream. And yet, it is easy for British Euroskeptics to raise the specter of the threat. In March 2015, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker advocated a common European army as a way to increase the EU’s standing on the world stage, not least in the eyes of Russia. Recent reports on a forthcoming defense white paper from Germany and EU High representative Federica Mogherini’s EU Global Strategy stoked scaremongering too.

>year is 2015 (https://www.politico.eu/article/waging-war-on-the-myth-of-an-eu-army-referendum-britain-brexit-debate/)
>pointing out people's brazen ambitions is scaremongering

>year is 2018 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/13/merkel-joins-macron-in-calling-for-a-real-true-european-army)
>everyone telling you to ignore their ambitions reveal their ambitions

Quote

Merkel joins Macron in calling for a ‘real, true European army’

>a plot twist to surprise fools (https://i.imgur.com/ZitVK7C.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:23 pm

>Brussels gets an army
>We have always been at war with [Insert Holdout here]

I mean, eh. It's probably just trying to centralize the european military commands, if I had to guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 05:31:46 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:23 pm

>Brussels gets an army
>We have always been at war with [Insert Holdout here]

I don't think a European army would even reach Moscow to be honest, I just don't see the likes of Juncker inspiring the same level of confidence and morale in his men the same way Hitler or Napoleon did. Thus to that end the biggest worry would be the EU taking the competent qualities of France, Italy & Poland and then slapping on additional layers of incompetence, bureaucracy, interservice rivalry, all to justify sending Eastern Europeans to die in pointless expeditions to achieve nothing (I guess giving a middle finger to US forces is an achievement). Maybe slap around Romania and the Visegrad slavs for being disobedient with their Euroforce, can't be German imperialists if it's a multilateral effort lel

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:17:23 pm

I mean, eh. It's probably just trying to centralize the european military commands, if I had to guess.

The difference between forming a European army from scratch and forming one from integrated national militaries is simply a difference in logistics, not objective. The end result is a European army under one command which answers to the European Union, with the European nations ceasing to have any independent foreign policy, finally being secure in their status as a province of the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 13, 2018, 05:35:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 05:31:46 pm

I don't think a European army would even reach Moscow to be honest, I just don't see the likes of Juncker inspiring the same level of confidence and morale in his men the same way Hitler or Napoleon did. Thus to that end the biggest worry would be the EU taking the competent qualities of France, Italy & Poland and then slapping on additional layers of incompetence, bureaucracy, interservice rivalry, all to justify sending Eastern Europeans to die in pointless expeditions to achieve nothing (I guess giving a middle finger to US forces is an achievement). Maybe slap around Romania and the Visegrad slavs for being disobedient with their Euroforce, can't be German imperialists if it's a multilateral effort lel

Very much this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:36:24 pm

If the EU actually morphed into a federal governing body, do you think there would be more incentive to make the EU parliament more democratic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 13, 2018, 05:40:30 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:36:24 pm

If the EU actually morphed into a federal governing body, do you think there would be more incentive to make the EU parliament more democratic?

Based on historical experience with federal governing bodies, nope.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2018, 05:43:45 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:36:24 pm

If the EU actually morphed into a federal governing body, do you think there would be more incentive to make the EU parliament more democratic?

Why in the world would it?

Well, unless you're the kind of person who thinks it would be democratic to delegate more power over the sheep to the wolves simply because they are more numerous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:51:20 pm

I ask because through my american viewpoint, the EU would feplace the national governing bodies as the highest law of the geographic area. Now, as the representatives for those bodies are elected, in a general speaking, would this tradition then transition to the new governing body?

Yes, I know they wouldn't want to hand over appointing power to the voters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 05:58:57 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 13, 2018, 05:35:07 pm

Very much this.

Plot twist: Genghis Khan is reborn in Finngolia and uses the EU army to conquer the world, shore to shore, ushering in the new age of humanity. London is turned into a post-modern tower of skulls for rebelling

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:36:24 pm

If the EU actually morphed into a federal governing body, do you think there would be more incentive to make the EU parliament more democratic?

Short answer: No
Long answer: No, because there exists no incentive for EU ministers to do anything but centralise the European Union. Making the EU even less accountable merely further removes them from the people they rule. If we look at the EU's past, even when member states were being forced by their electorates into halting EU integration without consultation, the EU responded by proposing further centralisation. Even when the UK was likely to leave the EU, the EU responded by promising further centralisation. Even when softer eurosceptics in other countries called for slower integration, not even a halt, the EU responded with promises of further centralisation. After the UK voted to leave, the EU responded to this crisis caused by resentment to EU centralisation by promising accelerated centralisation. Allowing the EU parliament to actually do anything would run the risk of allowing european voters to disagree with the EU, repealing and reversing EU laws & centralisation. It is a political entity you join and are never supposed to leave, the EU only centralises, it never relaxes its grip.

Centralising more power at the top, giving less accountability to anyone - the last thing on their minds is going to be devolving power when the objective is inherently about centralising European power under one polity. It would be like the United States of America's federal government forming in order to make every constituent state sovereign, the concept is inherently self-defeating. With as much money and power as is concerned with the European continent, it'd look like the American federal government's worse qualities on steroids translated through google 27 times

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 13, 2018, 05:51:20 pm

I ask because through my american viewpoint, the EU would feplace the national governing bodies as the highest law of the geographic area. Now, as the representatives for those bodies are elected, in a general speaking, would this tradition then transition to the new governing body?

Yes, I know they wouldn't want to hand over appointing power to the voters.

This one requires a bit of nuance to explain, since all of the European nations have their own democratic and constitutional ways of electing their leader, as a consequence it is unlikely that any one system would be imported into EU-level governance. The most likely outcome to result in a relation between voters and the Presidency of the EU would be the European Parliament electing President of the Commission from amongst their ranks, with the European Council becoming vestigial/ceremonial in its selection of whoever has the Parliament's confidence. The other thing it would need is the ability to propose, amend & repeal legislation, and you'd have something which would begin to resemble a Europe-wide parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 13, 2018, 06:12:04 pm

As part of my desire to achieve the state of irony, I put 'the American federal government's worse qualities on steroids' through google translate between German, Latin and English (a promising mix of the imperial, the conquering, and the... integrating.) It actually didn't stray too far from its original.

The foederati regimen is a steroid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 07:28:51 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 13, 2018, 06:12:04 pm

As part of my desire to achieve the state of irony, I put 'the American federal government's worse qualities on steroids' through google translate between German, Latin and English (a promising mix of the imperial, the conquering, and the... integrating.) It actually didn't stray too far from its original.

The foederati regimen is a steroid.

Makes a good valentines card tbh

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/zqjEmBV.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 02:18:17 pm

EuroCorps is basically just NATO minus the US. And I suppose minus Britain too, if they insist on being Fortress Albion.

Given the very plausible potential for NATO to lose two of its biggest members, I can understand the drive towards an integrated European military.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 14, 2018, 02:26:19 pm

Bah, the current NATO situation may make the EU Arm-me drive more palatable, but it would be foolish to suggest that NATO's situation is the cause of such further integration policies.

Merkel would be pushing this no matter if NATO could stomp the world into submission. More integration, more power held in Brussels, more happy Eurocrats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2018, 03:24:17 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 02:18:17 pm

EuroCorps is basically just NATO minus the US.

No. A European military would be the equivalent of the US military forces as opposed to the military forces of the individual states.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 03:30:19 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 14, 2018, 03:24:17 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 02:18:17 pm

EuroCorps is basically just NATO minus the US.

No. A European military would be the equivalent of the US military forces as opposed to the military forces of the individual states.

I guess that would come down to chain of command. If the component militaries no longer have direct chain of command to their respective nations, then yeah. I'm guessing it would be something more like NATO where there's a dual authority, shared between national military command structures and a supranational command. Neither Merkel nor Macron is going to hand over the reins of the Landswehr or the FAF solely to Brussels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 14, 2018, 04:24:13 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2018, 05:58:57 pm

Centralising more power at the top, giving less accountability to anyone - the last thing on their minds is going to be devolving power when the objective is inherently about centralising European power under one polity. It would be like the United States of America's federal government forming in order to make every constituent state sovereign, the concept is inherently self-defeating. With as much money and power as is concerned with the European continent, it'd look like the American federal government's worse qualities on steroids translated through google 27 times

I assume you're talking about the Articles of Confederation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation), correct? It didn't work out too well for us. The main difference however is that the EU is made up of states which would be able to survive just fine both economically and politically outside the EU as both are fully mature, the newly independent colonies were still trying to get themeslves straightened out. Sure, they'd have been fine economically since England had long held the leash loosely, but they'd have been really vulnerable politically because they'd be individually taken advantage of by the Great Powers of the day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 14, 2018, 04:50:36 pm

In addition, the EU already has solved two pf the biggest issues of the articles of confederation: they have a steady income stream from members (not quite taxation, but meh), and they have a universal trade and border rules, along with a standard currency.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 14, 2018, 06:38:05 pm

Italy has rejected European Commission's austerity proposal, is now considering fining Italy for spending too much money (lol wat how you gonna increase someone's debt as punishment for increasing debt) (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46203605)

Quote

The Commission, worried by the impact of high spending on Italy's high levels of debt, had told Rome to revise the budget or face possible fines.
It had set Tuesday as a deadline to Italy's governing populist parties to respond to its objections.
The Commission's warning to Italy, the eurozone's third-biggest economy, is an unprecedented move with regard to an European Union member state.

Italy's government, made up of the populist Five Star Movement and right-wing populist League, came to power vowing to "end poverty" with a minimum income for the unemployed, along with promises of tax cuts and scrapping extensions to the retirement age.

Every time I see shit like this I get ptsd flashbacks to students screaming about how sovereignty is an abstract concept the UK can do without
2015 was a fucking amazing year

Also seriously the EU thinking is nonsensical here, Italy's economy will be more fucked in the long term if austerity measures allow further decay of its infrastructure, as with the bridge collapse. I honestly can't imagine how hellish it must have been to have your PM get replaced by technocrats appointed by the Commission

*EDIT
 

Quote from: smjjames on November 14, 2018, 04:24:13 pm

I assume you're talking about the Articles of Confederation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation), correct? It didn't work out too well for us.

No

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 14, 2018, 06:42:13 pm

pUt ThE pOoR bAcK tO wOrK

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 14, 2018, 06:52:12 pm

I just clicked on a few BBC articles concerning the Italian government.

The number of times the word "populist" was mentioned is making me dizzy.

Oh, also, it's possible that they don't care if Italy goes to the dogs. The current government isn't exactly 100% Europhile. A bit of misery during the....ah... "populist government" might help the EU in the long run.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 14, 2018, 06:57:08 pm

How popular amongst people would populists prosper populated amongst populations if a populist polity pacified poorly a pauper's populace

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 14, 2018, 07:20:46 pm

Ukip is calling Theresa May, after latest Brexit shenanigans, 'Treason May.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 14, 2018, 07:33:11 pm

Ukip still exists?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 09:02:58 pm

Quote from: Ispil on November 14, 2018, 07:30:29 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 14, 2018, 07:20:46 pm

Ukip is calling Theresa May, after latest Brexit shenanigans, 'Treason May.'

It took them this long to figure that nickname out?

Well, this *is* UKIP we're talking about. Nigel was the genius of the party. Without him, their memes are so dank they're positively frozen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 14, 2018, 09:07:33 pm

Quote from: Ispil on November 14, 2018, 07:30:29 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 14, 2018, 07:20:46 pm

Ukip is calling Theresa May, after latest Brexit shenanigans, 'Treason May.'

It took them this long to figure that nickname out?

Only a little bit longer than the amount of time it took May to figure out what she’s doing.

Even then, it took her five hours to convince what’s left of her cabinet to back the deal she’s figured out, despite protest from various, non-cabinet members of her own party and the DUP, which is propping up her government.

I expect bad shizzle in the near future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on November 14, 2018, 09:33:36 pm

It's almost like this was a bad idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 10:05:55 pm

You ever wonder if David Cameron is sitting somewhere watching all this, sipping a whiskey neat, and thinking "Jesus Christ am I glad that insufferable tart got stuck with this steaming pile and not me."

Oh...a quick research indicates he's thinking of making a return to UK politics. Predictably, most people are like "PLZ NO, GO KILL URSELF KTHXBYE".

Also, this article (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1045230/brexit-betrayal-angela-merkel-david-cameron-eu-referendum-spt) from the Daily Express is a riot, insinuating that Brexit was all secretly some diabolic plot by Angela Merkel to....get Britain to do something really stupid all on its own?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2018, 03:21:30 am

Quote from: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 03:30:19 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 14, 2018, 03:24:17 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 14, 2018, 02:18:17 pm

EuroCorps is basically just NATO minus the US.

No. A European military would be the equivalent of the US military forces as opposed to the military forces of the individual states.

I guess that would come down to chain of command. If the component militaries no longer have direct chain of command to their respective nations, then yeah. I'm guessing it would be something more like NATO where there's a dual authority, shared between national military command structures and a supranational command. Neither Merkel nor Macron is going to hand over the reins of the Landswehr or the FAF solely to Brussels.

Your mistake is not understanding that Brussels is Merkel and Macron.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 15, 2018, 04:39:31 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 03:21:30 am

Your mistake is not understanding that Brussels is Merkel and Macron.

As the primary talking pieces of the coalition, they are known as the Brussels spouts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 15, 2018, 04:41:04 am

Quote from: Kagus on November 15, 2018, 04:39:31 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 03:21:30 am

Your mistake is not understanding that Brussels is Merkel and Macron.

As the primary talking pieces of the coalition, they are known as the Brussels spouts.

You mean nipples?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2018, 06:31:35 am

So far as the brexit draft is concerned, I find myself glad that I voted for the DUP.

This has never happened before.

Further, I am grateful for the weak position May's election campaign left her in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 06:38:42 am

Northern Ireland save us from the ides of May

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2018, 06:41:50 am

And isn't that a depressing sentiment?

It is up to NI to avert May Day?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 06:50:27 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 06:41:50 am

And isn't that a depressing sentiment?

It is up to NI to avert May Day?

History of the British Isles:
Everyone: ENGLAND NO

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:06:57 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 06:50:27 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 06:41:50 am

And isn't that a depressing sentiment?

It is up to NI to avert May Day?

History of the British Isles:
Everyone: ENGLAND NO

Sadly, this seems to be very much the case.  England makes decisions that fuck us all, and we get fucked.  If we're going down the road of increasingly insular and xenophobic Britain, I'd like to move that we melt down the Union for scrap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 07:08:15 am

Donald Trump accuses confused Baltic leaders of starting the Balkan wars (https://sputniknews.com/world/201811121069738709-trump-confuses-baltic-balkans-yugoslavia-wars/)
The geography memes jack

*EDIT

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:06:57 am

If we're going down the road of increasingly insular and xenophobic Britain, I'd like to move that we melt down the Union for scrap.

I will agree on one condition: the shard is melted down and replaced with a giant clock tower. Also we revive the Heptarchy and ultimately get annexed by the Isle of Mann. The one condition is a two-parter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

I fail to see how leaving a political and economic - soon to also be militaristic - Union is both xenophobic and insular. I can understand why you would think the latter - we are leaving something greater than ourselves. But that doesn't change the fact that the EU is 'insular', only on a larger scale.
As for xenophobia, I thought "hurr durr Leavers are racist xenophobes" had blessedly died a death. But apparently not.

Edit: heptarchy is fine by me, but plz no Gaelic... 'Kings' over here. Those guys were.douches.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 07:22:41 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

I fail to see how leaving a political and economic - soon to also be militaristic - Union is both xenophobic and insular. I can understand why you would think the latter - we are leaving something greater than ourselves. But that doesn't change the fact that the EU is 'insular', only on a larger scale.
As for xenophobia, I thought "hurr durr Leavers are racist xenophobes" had blessedly died a death. But apparently not.

It will never die m8, same way as creating a permanent immigrant underclass is anti-racist, same way as handing away your sovereignty to the EU is democracy, same way as not hitching your nation to the EU's world hegemony bid is isolation. The perspective difference is fundamental, and fundamental to why we come to different conclusions when reviewing the same information. The key to moving forwards is respecting one another's perspectives despite their irreconcilability, if only to remind each other that we are all humans stuck on the same ship

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

Edit: heptarchy is fine by me, but plz no Gaelic... 'Kings' over here. Those guys were.douches.

How do you feel about Norwegian pirates

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:27:01 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

I fail to see how leaving a political and economic - soon to also be militaristic - Union is both xenophobic and insular. I can understand why you would think the latter - we are leaving something greater than ourselves. But that doesn't change the fact that the EU is 'insular', only on a larger scale.
As for xenophobia, I thought "hurr durr Leavers are racist xenophobes" had blessedly died a death. But apparently not.

Edit: heptarchy is fine by me, but plz no Gaelic... 'Kings' over here. Those guys were.douches.

All gaelic, all daylic.

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.  If we have 3 countries (we've always been at war with Eurasia), we're closer to global union than if we have 250, and extracting ourselves from a union was a regression to undesirable ways. 
I also understand that xenophobia wasn't the only source of Leave votes, but you can't say that it wasn't a factor with a straight face.  And Britain -is- getting more xenophobic and insular, as is... well, pretty much everywhere.  Even the Scandinavians are getting in on the hate train.  i'm genuinely worried/hopeful, but the American results don't show the backlash that I was hoping for, and even after the Leave promises came out as a pack of lies, noone on the Leave side seems terribly bothered.  We're heading to a dark and lonely place, and I fear that not enough of us care to do anything about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 15, 2018, 07:27:42 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 07:22:41 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

Edit: heptarchy is fine by me, but plz no Gaelic... 'Kings' over here. Those guys were.douches.

How do you feel about Norwegian pirates

"OI CNUT! We'z not piratez, we'z farmerz."

"What do you farm?"

"LOOT!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:28:21 am

Quote from: Kagus on November 15, 2018, 07:27:42 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 07:22:41 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 07:17:21 am

Edit: heptarchy is fine by me, but plz no Gaelic... 'Kings' over here. Those guys were.douches.

How do you feel about Norwegian pirates

"OI CNUT! We'z not piratez, we'z farmerz."

"What do you farm?"

"LOOT!"

Norwegian Ork Pirates?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 15, 2018, 07:58:07 am

The Orries have finally embraced their inherent deathdrive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 15, 2018, 08:02:51 am

Oh they did it again, they agree to a thing then quit the next day.

Do politicians not have the spines to stand up to their bosses?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 08:05:45 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:27:01 am

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.  If we have 3 countries (we've always been at war with Eurasia), we're closer to global union than if we have 250, and extracting ourselves from a union was a regression to undesirable ways. 
I also understand that xenophobia wasn't the only source of Leave votes, but you can't say that it wasn't a factor with a straight face.  And Britain -is- getting more xenophobic and insular, as is... well, pretty much everywhere.  Even the Scandinavians are getting in on the hate train.  i'm genuinely worried/hopeful, but the American results don't show the backlash that I was hoping for, and even after the Leave promises came out as a pack of lies, noone on the Leave side seems terribly bothered.  We're heading to a dark and lonely place, and I fear that not enough of us care to do anything about it.

I don't know if I've made this argument to you specifically before, so pardon me if I have in the past and I'm just repeating myself here, but I am of the adamant position that the objective does not justify the means. First and foremost is in what form the union is made and to serve whom, getting political unions wrong sets you far, much farther back than if you had done nothing to seek it out politically. Reason for this is, is that as time goes on, technological advance, infrastructure development and interpersonal relations make us de facto closer to one world than all these politically ambitious bureaucrats, who seek to build a political institution first and find actual unity second. If there is not unity first, there will be no reason for those to obey the new polity except the force of law, which leads to the situation where we're at now. I do not want to live under the rule of a distant global government ruling over a world of continual insurgency, whose leaders are the most unimaginative viceroys selling power to the highest bidder we could ever wish to die for. It would result in one of two outcomes; either it fails, setting humanity back as a whole, or it succeeds, locking humanity in a global stagnancy from which the current order is made legal status quo: an incompetent plutocracy with excellent support staff ruling over the rest for their own self-benefit. The prospect of them winning is worse than losing tbh

The second is that if we look at history, political units have always been best made by necessity first, history second and ambition last. Those like Alexander, Temujin, Timur, Napoleon and Hitler all set forth to make one world government by ambition, and all of them saw their one-world government disintegrate one way or another. Those formed by history are self-explanatory, shared culture, ethnicity, religion, history and such makes a people reluctant to break a union without good reason. Those formed by necessity result in those formed by history. What I mean by this is a simple consequence of foreign policy and power: Polities which cannot afford to defend their independence get subsumed by those which can afford to project their power. The feudal Lords could not protect their independence against the bureaucracies of nascent nation-states, the nascent nation-states could not protect their independence against the great powers, the great powers tore each other to ribbons and fell under the influence of the superpowers and now we see the same again. What is significant is that as time goes on, the cost for defence increases exponentially - if you compare a spitfire from the 1940s (adjusted for inflation) to a Typhoon, one would cost you £700k and the other would cost you £125,000,000. The aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal set the UK back £3,000,000 (£159,000,000 today) in the 1940s, while the aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth today costs £3,100,000,000.
As time goes on the cost of power continues to increase, until such time as a nation cannot afford to have an independent foreign policy, and must subject itself to a superior economic power. This is the ultimate guarantor of the unification of mankind, not hamfisted and underwhelming attempts to assassinate European Democracies for the benefit of a technocrat's retirement funds. It is why the EU must resort to direct control of a country's economy, why it desires so much to immediately subsume their militaries, why it desires to represent them on the world stage - because countries like the UK, Italy, Poland e.t.c. do not need the European Union, so in the absence of a necessity, one must be made. Yet because the impetus is an artifice of law and requires the continual assertion of authority against the numerous masses, it is inherently fragile & provokes continual resentment, both of which invite rebellions, as we see with Brexit, Italy's budget, Visegrad's anything, & european eurosceptics.

My last point is a matter of opinion, but if the time should come that the United Kingdom ceases to be sovereign, we should first and foremost seek union with those of our constitution who utilise the same governance and system of law as us. How we seek to turn our backs on the Anglosphere and the Commonwealth at large is thoroughly beyond me, I have zero ties with the European Continent but many many across the Commonwealth, so my personal interest lies beyond - it would the perfect alignment of necessity & history. Consider for example how many have expressed interest in closer UK-Australian ties; it is because the historical connection is there, but the necessity is not. Should necessity ever exist, there would be a perfect alignment of necessity and history which does not exist with this bland corporate entity across the channel. One thing for certain is true: Everyone who said the European Union was just a trade organisation is now as disappointed as I am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:28:21 am

Norwegian Ork Pirates?

So
Wez made a fire
Iznt it good
Norkwegian wood

Quote from: hector13 on November 15, 2018, 08:02:51 am

Do politicians not have spines

ftfy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2018, 08:18:20 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:27:01 am

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.

I really can't fathom what kind of imperialist insanity makes someone think something like this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 15, 2018, 08:19:27 am

Genghis Khan didnt see his empire collapse. In fact, it outlived him by a fair bit. That both makes all you wrote moot and justify my proposal to enter a new union with Ulan Bator as capital. Also, we'll make a pyramid out of the skulls of anyone who disagrees. And a trapezhoedron out of the genitalia

Signed
- Chairman Poo of the Western European Khanate, Greater Mongolian Empire



... I may have been playing too much ck2 in the last 48 hours..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 08:23:07 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 15, 2018, 08:19:27 am

Genghis Khan didnt see his empire collapse. In fact, it outlived him by a fair bit. That both makes all you wrote moot and justify my proposal to enter a new union with Ulan Bator as capital. Also, we'll make a pyramid out of the skulls of anyone who disagrees. And a trapezhoedron out of the genitalia

Nor did Alexander, Timur or Hitler, only Napoleon lived to see the end in their lifetime. It is a deficiency of the English language, but I was using 'saw' to not mean they personally saw it all, I was using it to mean the same as we would use for to 'see something through.' However, I will support a union with Ulaanbataar as capital. Yuve Yuve Yu will be the new national anthem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xZUr0BEfE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2018, 08:24:29 am

It is self evident to all here gathered that Palpatine's Empire was better than the limited Republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 08:25:17 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 15, 2018, 08:24:29 am

It is self evident to all here gathered that Palpatine's Empire was better than the limited Republic.

merkel pls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 10:20:24 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 08:18:20 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:27:01 am

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.

I really can't fathom what kind of imperialist insanity makes someone think something like this.

So you would see us continue our wasteful and pointless squabbling until we finally eliminate ourselves in a (long overdue) apocalyptic war?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 10:35:50 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 10:20:24 am

So you would see us continue our wasteful and pointless squabbling until we finally eliminate ourselves in a (long overdue) apocalyptic war?

I find it hard to believe anyone can look at the European Union as the solution to wasteful and pointless squabbling ;p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:13:03 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 10:35:50 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 10:20:24 am

So you would see us continue our wasteful and pointless squabbling until we finally eliminate ourselves in a (long overdue) apocalyptic war?

I find it hard to believe anyone can look at the European Union as the solution to wasteful and pointless squabbling ;p

Which is also why anyone talking about the EU making a bid for world domination has to understand why I have to take a break for some convulsive laughter before reading the rest of their comment.

Euroskepticism seems to have reached the sort of doomsaying and conspiratorial tone as, say, a Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program.

I'm surprised no one has hinted that there's a Franco-German fleet of black helicopters that exist for covert ops to silence their critics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 11:30:14 am

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:13:03 am

Which is also why anyone talking about the EU making a bid for world domination has to understand why I have to take a break for some convulsive laughter before reading the rest of their comment.
Euroskepticism seems to have reached the sort of doomsaying and conspiratorial tone as, say, a Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program.
I'm surprised no one has hinted that there's a Franco-German fleet of black helicopters that exist for covert ops to silence their critics.

Keep your insults in the Ameripol thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2018, 11:34:18 am

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10559458/We-want-a-United-States-of-Europe-says-top-EU-official.html). Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 10:20:24 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 08:18:20 am

Quote from: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 07:27:01 am

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.

I really can't fathom what kind of imperialist insanity makes someone think something like this.

So you would see us continue our wasteful and pointless squabbling until we finally eliminate ourselves in a (long overdue) apocalyptic war?

Nothing about a global government would mean a stop to either. All it would mean is a hell of a lot more imperialism, colonialism, and oppression, for reasons Loud Whispers outlined above in the post you chose to ignore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 11:38:42 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 11:34:18 am

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10559458/We-want-a-United-States-of-Europe-says-top-EU-official.html). Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

Quote from: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-5808_en.htm

By next year, we should also address the international role of the euro. The euro is 20 years young and has already come a long way – despite its critics.
It is now the world's second currency, after the US dollar, with 60 countries linking their currencies to the euro in one way or another. But we must do more to allow our single currency to play its full role on the international scene.
Recent events have brought into sharp focus the need to deepen our Economic and Monetary Union and build deep and liquid capital markets. The Commission has made a series of proposals to do just that – most of which now await adoption.
We can and must go further. It is absurd that Europe pays for 80 % of its energy import bill – worth 300 billion euro a year – in US dollars when only roughly 2% of our energy imports come from the United States. It is absurd, ridiculous that European companies buy European planes in dollars instead of euro. This all needs to be changed.

The EU seeks to supplant the USA economically, militarily and politically, but nah fam it's a conspiracy made by inbred evangelical cattle farmers [/s]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2018, 11:46:56 am

Wait, hold on a second. "20 years young"? Who even says that?

_{dirty imperialists, that's who! /s}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 11:34:18 am

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10559458/We-want-a-United-States-of-Europe-says-top-EU-official.html). Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 15, 2018, 12:00:39 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

It's not about the currency hegemony, it's about the attitude that "this perfectly good preëxisting medium of exchange is insufficiently European (and therefore not under our control), we must replace it with company scrip immediately!"

The US achieved its "currency hegemony" by having a giant economy that made it convenient for everyone else, not by trying to mandate that other countries give up what they were using before in preference to the Almighty Dollar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 15, 2018, 12:00:48 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

Quote from: scriver on November 15, 2018, 11:34:18 am

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10559458/We-want-a-United-States-of-Europe-says-top-EU-official.html). Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

I am!  Fuck you guys!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2018, 12:09:03 pm

Quote from: greatorder on November 15, 2018, 12:04:53 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on November 15, 2018, 12:00:39 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

It's not about the currency hegemony, it's about the attitude that "this perfectly good preëxisting medium of exchange is insufficiently European (and therefore not under our control), we must replace it with company scrip immediately!"

The US achieved its "currency hegemony" by having a giant economy that made it convenient for everyone else, not by trying to mandate that other countries give up what they were using before in preference to the Almighty Dollar.

Wasn't a lot of it also to do with the whole petrodollar stuff where they basically enforced hegemony via market manipulation?

Ooooh, oooh, don't forget the Banana Republics!

Something something condors, amirite?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 12:18:53 pm

Quote from: greatorder on November 15, 2018, 11:52:27 am

You know, I'm sitting here watching the British government implode with a complete lack of concern.
There's something worrying about how I feel like I should be at least a bit concerned about it, but the past two years have been such a shitshow this is just another "eh" issue.

I don't know, I'm actually rather looking forward to it. I am just confused as to why May hasn't resigned yet

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

Who the hell said any of that? There was no other way to interpret your post other than a plain and simple insult that euroscepticism in the face of the EU's ambition was a delusion on the par of an American strawman, I don't see a single person in here talking about top sekrit German plots to break Britain or secret Brussels plots to swamp Europe with muslims and something something our precious white culture. I don't even consider a United States of Europe vying to supplant the USA as nefarious, I consider the inception of the EU as nefarious but not its ambition - its ambition is spoken in the open plain as day. Throwing that kind of antagonistic comparison is exactly the reason why American politics is a cancerous bipartisan tumour, because it inherently assumes that someone who believes in your opposition is a mental, moral and physical invalid.

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

And not once did I ever attack someone for what they "seemed" like, if my banter had a barb it was always hooked in something real, like the DNC going after cartoon frogs & milk, or a World Wide Wrestling Entertainment host becoming the President.

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 11:53:51 am

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

Europeans already use the Euro when buying from Europeans - except in energy and defence, which the USA uses to prop up the petrodollar. Juncker talking about the EU spending dollars to purchase its energy needs when only 2% of its energy imports even come from the USA must explicitly refer to one of two things; purchasing energy from Russia with euros, or purchasing energy from the Middle East with euros.

Quote

“The rest of world is now looking at Europe for leadership. And we can do it.” (https://qz.com/1082972/unga-2017-federica-mogherini-outlined-the-european-unions-values-to-set-it-apart-from-the-us-under-trump/)
That divergence from the US extended—albeit very tentatively—to security matters. Seemingly alluding to Trump’s threat to leave NATO if Europe doesn’t step up its military investments, Mogherini acknowledged that it was “important…that Europeans start to invest better on defense.” However, she presented that not as a way to keep the US from leaving NATO but to give Europe “strategic autonomy that, potentially, we … could need to use.” The not-so-subtle message: Europe is preparing for a military future without America.

Quote

He spoke of the importance of respecting and implementing EU Court of Justice decisions. He said that respecting the rule of law and abiding their decisions are not an option but an obligation.
Turning to international diplomacy, he said: "we are all responsible for the Europe of today and must take responsibility for the Europe of tomorrow... Europe can no longer be a spectator of international events, but must become an active player, an architect of tomorrow's world. There is a strong demand for Europe throughout the world and to meet such a demand we must speak with one voice."

Architect of tomorrow (http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2018-09-12/local-news/Live-European-Commission-President-delivers-State-of-the-Union-6736196226).

Quote

Europe, as a bigger oil buyer than China and the issuer of a far more powerful currency than the yuan, would probably stand a better chance of establishing an alternative to the U.S.-based futures markets. And there’s an additional factor that might help: the geography of Europe’s oil sources.
“Any change from the dominance of the US dollar with respect to the pricing and invoicing of the industry would probably be a political issue in which governments of oil-producing countries had an important say,” the 2016 European Commission report said. About 28 percent of EU oil imports come from Russia, which is eager to undermine the dollar’s dominance. Invoicing these supplies in a currency other than the dollar should be feasible, and it would put pressure on other suppliers to shift as well.
Energy isn’t the only area where the euro could challenge the dollar. Collectively, the EU accounts for 15 percent of all international trade in goods, on par with the U.S. and China as a global trade participant. About 93 percent of U.S. trade is invoiced in dollars. If the EU managed to reach that proportion with the euro, it would mean 1.9 trillion euros ($2.2 trillion) a year in additional euro transactions at last year’s trade levels (less without the U.K., but still a mind-boggling amount).

No seriously I don't understand how you can observe someone state their ambitions and pursue them in front of your face and see nothing (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-09-12/currencies-the-euro-has-the-power-to-challenge-the-dollar).

I also do bitch about the USA, hence the shitposting in Ameripol thread ;P
The general offensiveness of the US world hegemony also has little bearing on my lack of desire to be a part of the EU's world hegemony bid; if the EU wins it will not make much difference to the UK, but if the EU makes the bid while the UK is paying for it, the costs whether the EU wins or lose are great - all for the purpose of hurting the country we are closest in the world with. Need it be forgotten that France tried to keep us out of the EU because they thought we were too close to the USA? UK and USA are a pair of geopolitical slags in bed together

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 01:31:16 pm

It is a bit rich to hear a Brit complaining about anybody else's bid at "world hegemony".

Furthermore, the article you quote explicitly supports the notion that EuroCorps (or whatever they're calling it) is intended to fill the gap left by a very plausible US (and UK?) withdrawal from NATO, not so they can bring Merkelism to the world at the barrel of a gun.

This isn't a new idea. And not surprisingly, it last gained traction and prominence during the Bush years, when the US started making all sorts of unilateral foreign policy moves. If the US can elect a rational government who doesn't want to tear up the norms of the international system (which would mean neither Trump nor Sanders), the push for a European unified military would fall apart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 15, 2018, 01:35:17 pm

Quote from: greatorder on November 15, 2018, 12:04:53 pm

Wasn't a lot of it also to do with the whole petrodollar stuff where they basically enforced hegemony via market manipulation?

Market manipulation's fine, it amuses me. If the EU want to try that, I'm all for it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 02:02:27 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 01:31:16 pm

It is a bit rich to hear a Brit complaining about anybody else's bid at "world hegemony".

'There had taken place, in the half-century or so before the [1914] war, a tremendous expansion of British power, accompanied by a pronounced lack of sympathy for any similar ambition on the part of other nations... If any nation had truly made a bid for world power, it was Great Britain. In fact, it had more than made a bid for it, it had achieved it. The Germans were merely talking about building a railway to Bagdhad. The Queen of England was Empress of India. If any nation had upset the world's balance of power, it was Great Britain.' t. J. Remak
It's not at all surprising to anyone familiar with the history of British foreign policy. It's the exact same line used to express annoyance by the Kaiser, or the Fuhrer, at British opposition to their territorial ambitions. STATUS QUO Mr. SPEAKER, HARK CRY STATUS QUO

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 01:31:16 pm

Furthermore, the article you quote explicitly supports the notion that EuroCorps (or whatever they're calling it) is intended to fill the gap left by a very plausible US (and UK?) withdrawal from NATO, not so they can bring Merkelism to the world at the barrel of a gun.

...Where has the UK withdrawal entered your mind from? Plus this notion is easily dispelled just by the simple fact that these plans pre-date the US President's bid for candidacy in the RNC, let alone their actual election. Much like the EU trying to supplant the dollar since Bush or the EU Defence Agency enlargening even to areas of Europe NATO was reluctant to expand, it stretches the imagination to perceive decades of planning as a temporary response to a future President they could never have predicted. Where stated ambition and observed action coincide, it is illogical to ignore evidence in favour of rhetoric. In particular, US politics does not have an especially subtle rhetorical style shall we say, whereas in Europe everything is as polite as can be. Hence, mention of purchasing petroleum in euros or supplanting the American-led alliance with an autonomous European force, without alerting the Americans to the consequences of an autonomous European force conflicting with American foreign policy.

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 01:31:16 pm

This isn't a new idea. And not surprisingly, it last gained traction and prominence during the Bush years, when the US started making all sorts of unilateral foreign policy moves. If the US can elect a rational government who doesn't want to tear up the norms of the international system (which would mean neither Trump nor Sanders), the push for a European unified military would fall apart.

If it is not a new idea, you should be familiar with its reality. If you are familiar with its reality, then why pretend as if this is some conspiracy you have only just discovered? I find it thoroughly dulling when people are somehow capable of rejecting the very words EU Presidents and Commissioners speak. European world hegemony is not a new idea; in some circles, it is tradition. Whatever the EU shall believe, whatever the European peoples should not believe, I shall not wish to be a part of this bid, any more than I would support a Napoleon, Wilhelm or Hitler. It's not terribly worth it, while the costs of winning or losing are rather grave

*EDIT
Do you need the EU President shouting "USA #2, USA #2, USA #2" whilst burning a bucket of McDonalds, Iphones and Eagles?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 05:37:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 02:02:27 pm

*EDIT
Do you need the EU President shouting "USA #2, USA #2, USA #2" whilst burning a bucket of McDonalds, Iphones and Eagles?

Why would that bother me?  ???
I'm not a nationalist. Hell, I'd like to see us taken down a few pegs, cause I think being #1 for the last 70 years or so has done some rather bad things to our national psyche.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 05:54:14 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 05:37:50 pm

Why would that bother me?  ???
I'm not a nationalist. Hell, I'd like to see us taken down a few pegs, cause I think being #1 for the last 70 years or so has done some rather bad things to our national psyche.

I wouldn't expect it to bother you, I'd expect it to illustrate the intent of the EU ;P
I will agree with you on the latter point for sure. Being at the top of the mountain is a bleak and lonely place to stay for any length of time, being super relevant brings significant downsides with it. If however the US should decide to let the world slip into a multipolar one unchallenged, I should hope it is done consciously in an organised manner, much in the same way that the Obama administration attempted to reduce US overextension by withdrawing from Europe and redeploying those units to Pacific Asia; the difference between an orderly reassessment of life, and a complete and total nervous breakdown, is a useful analogy to keep in mind. No one wants to see the USA have a Suez Crisis moment where one day they're on top of the world and the next day, the house of cards collapses - a gradual consolidation would be rather less traumatic for everyone really ;p
Also with all the doom and gloom it's worth saying I believe it'll be a strange world where the USA still isn't #1 for this century still, at least. More that in relative terms, the USA will go from a world without rivals to a world with several, and "international" will no longer be synonymous with "American"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2018, 05:59:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 05:54:14 pm

I should hope it is done consciously in an organised manner

LW, you know that is not going to happen. Why do you lie to yourself?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 07:17:17 pm

Quote from: Teneb on November 15, 2018, 05:59:09 pm

LW, you know that is not going to happen. Why do you lie to yourself?

I have a meme

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2018, 07:42:50 pm

A meme that one day, in the twelves bays of Toady, sons of former migrants and sons of former Fortress-folk will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood. I have a meme that one day even the thread of Europol, a thread sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 15, 2018, 08:00:14 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 01:31:16 pm

It is a bit rich to hear a Brit complaining about anybody else's bid at "world hegemony".

Furthermore, the article you quote explicitly supports the notion that EuroCorps (or whatever they're calling it) is intended to fill the gap left by a very plausible US (and UK?) withdrawal from NATO, not so they can bring Merkelism to the world at the barrel of a gun.

This isn't a new idea. And not surprisingly, it last gained traction and prominence during the Bush years, when the US started making all sorts of unilateral foreign policy moves. If the US can elect a rational government who doesn't want to tear up the norms of the international system (which would mean neither Trump nor Sanders), the push for a European unified military would fall apart.

I didn't get the sense that Sanders is isolationist in any way, the Dem debates didn't go that much into foriegn policy. Sanders did want to look into the trade deals, but that doesn't mean he's isolationist. They probably will more this time since Trumps foriegn policy is part of the discussion no matter what.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2018, 05:54:14 pm

Quote from: RedKing on November 15, 2018, 05:37:50 pm

Why would that bother me?  ???
I'm not a nationalist. Hell, I'd like to see us taken down a few pegs, cause I think being #1 for the last 70 years or so has done some rather bad things to our national psyche.

I wouldn't expect it to bother you, I'd expect it to illustrate the intent of the EU ;P
I will agree with you on the latter point for sure. Being at the top of the mountain is a bleak and lonely place to stay for any length of time, being super relevant brings significant downsides with it. If however the US should decide to let the world slip into a multipolar one unchallenged, I should hope it is done consciously in an organised manner, much in the same way that the Obama administration attempted to reduce US overextension by withdrawing from Europe and redeploying those units to Pacific Asia; the difference between an orderly reassessment of life, and a complete and total nervous breakdown, is a useful analogy to keep in mind. No one wants to see the USA have a Suez Crisis moment where one day they're on top of the world and the next day, the house of cards collapses - a gradual consolidation would be rather less traumatic for everyone really ;p

The problem with the Suez Canal crisis example is that the US doesn't have a buttload of colonies to lose. Yes, we still have a bunch of island territories, but that's nothing compared to what Britain lost

Quote

Also with all the doom and gloom it's worth saying I believe it'll be a strange world where the USA still isn't #1 for this century still, at least. More that in relative terms, the USA will go from a world without rivals to a world with several, and "international" will no longer be synonymous with "American"

Yeah, it's a result of the developing world catching up and becoming Great Powers in their own right. Brazil looked set on the trajectory and then it got tripped up in it's own mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2018, 12:10:16 am

Quote from: smjjames on November 15, 2018, 08:00:14 pm

The problem with the Suez Canal crisis example is that the US doesn't have a buttload of colonies to lose. Yes, we still have a bunch of island territories, but that's nothing compared to what Britain lost

Nah it's not perfect but it's appropriate. The British Empire at its peak political extent was its weakest iteration, post-Trafalgar, the British had informal Empire over 3/4s of the world with the obligation to merely defend its metropole & a handful of strategic posts. Post-Great War, the British lost its trade dominance with that 3/4s of the world to gain dominion over 1/4s, which meant that the British had to defend a quarter of the world against the USA, Italy, France, Germany, Russia & Japan, whilst having even less resources with which to do so. USA is likewise suffering the effects of overextension, pissing away money in Afghanistan & Iraq all the whilst Russia, China and the EU start memeing the USA

Quote from: smjjames on November 15, 2018, 08:00:14 pm

Yeah, it's a result of the developing world catching up and becoming Great Powers in their own right. Brazil looked set on the trajectory and then it got tripped up in it's own mess.

I don't wager India or Brazil are going to be a credible challenger to American influence, it's a result of the extraordinary set of post-war circumstances which led to the USA's hegemony disappearing with time, much in the same way that Britain's industrial lead disappeared. That the USA spends so much of its resources trying to topple dictators to replace them with terrorists to fund freedom fighters to kill the terrorists who then turn out to be bigger terrorists probably doesn't help

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/global-economy-one-chart.png)

Look at this sexy chart
The red is overextended trying to maintain its influence versus the yellow and green

Australia & Brazil with the sneak attack



Also Theresa May gave an anxious speech about how what was left of her cabinet ministers yet to resign supported her Brexit plan. The entire time the British public were REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing in the background which sums up my thoughts on the speech succinctly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U77ZdnYi6Kw)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2018, 09:47:46 am

London's city planners building a monumental dildo inside the lunchbox (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46259419)

Also in other news Theresa May is somehow still in power

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 21, 2018, 10:27:46 am

Not actually a literal dildo, but I can see where the name could come from, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 21, 2018, 02:34:01 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2018, 09:47:46 am

London's city planners building a monumental dildo inside the lunchbox (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46259419)

Also in other news Theresa May is somehow still in power

I have literally been expecting since last Thursday to wake up to news she’s been ousted.

I guess I’m enjoying/horrified by all the political posturing by the various stripes of cowardly Tory and overconfident Labour until it happens.

... I mean, it’s going to happen, right? Right..?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 21, 2018, 03:31:58 pm

Meanwhile Sweden is still doing as Belgium

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 21, 2018, 03:35:45 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 21, 2018, 03:31:58 pm

Meanwhile Sweden is still doing as Belgium

*GASP!* Not the children!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 21, 2018, 08:07:05 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2018, 09:47:46 am

London's city planners building a monumental dildo inside the lunchbox (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46259419)

Also in other news Theresa May is somehow still in power

Apparently it won’t have any office space and is basically a mega millennium eye. I’m not convinced that the second tallest skyscraper in the UK will *stay* funded by tourism for long...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 21, 2018, 08:13:27 pm

 "The Tulip's elegance and soft strength complements the iconic Gherkin."
Soft. Strength.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Caz on November 21, 2018, 08:36:52 pm

Oh yay, another useless and ugly building for London's skyline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 21, 2018, 08:45:33 pm

Eh?

It... they’re building it just to build it..? ‘cause I’m not sure how a new buding without any history or apparent reason behind it (beyond “we also built next door”) can be a “cultural and social landmark”.

I do like how they’re letting school kids come and see it. Here kids, learn... uh... just learn, okay?

In saying that, maybe it’s just a megaproject... Norman Foster confirmed as Urist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2018, 10:24:31 pm

Seems more like a noble demand than a megaproject
The baron has mandated the construction of a glass asparagus

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on November 22, 2018, 12:01:17 am

Can we petition to make it from green glass instead? Please please please

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 22, 2018, 02:49:19 am

No, it should be made of marmite blocks.


Yes, I'm being silly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on November 22, 2018, 02:58:19 am

I will not be fooled. That delicate bulb will undoubtedly split open like a corpse lotus and vomit forth a beam of moon-destroying power. Not today, aliens, I'm on to you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 05:40:55 am

Remind me to post something about buildings later today

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 05:46:48 am

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 05:40:55 am

Remind me to post something about buildings later today

Post something about buildings later today

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 05:50:28 am

This is so sad... Alexa, remind me to post something about buildings later today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 22, 2018, 07:28:39 am

We don't have money for building a proper road along the southen corridor (Exeter to Southampton, at least), but we can fund a useless piece of sky-cock in London the life-sucker? When can we cut London off and kick it into Holland?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 08:14:17 am

Well I can't find any good text sources (everything is paylocked) but what I wanted to say is that a guy in Swedish town of Växjö wanted to build two buildings shaped like this (http://www.arkitekturupproret.se/2016/04/25/nytt-landmarke-i-vaxjo-i-1890-talsstil/) and architecture-Sweden went nuts because of the pure gall of not building postmodernist box houses, because architects are awful shells of human beings devoid of any sense of beauty, creativity, or aesthetics.

Luckily, despite the protest of basically everyone in the business, but to the joy of everyone who appreciates buildings, he was given building permit by the state.

But architects still suck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on November 22, 2018, 08:23:17 am

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 08:14:17 am

Well I can't find any good text sources (everything is paylocked) but what I wanted to say is that a guy in Swedish town of Växjö wanted to build two buildings shaped like this (http://www.arkitekturupproret.se/2016/04/25/nytt-landmarke-i-vaxjo-i-1890-talsstil/) and architecture-Sweden went nuts because of the pure gall of not building postmodernist box houses, because architects are awful shells of human beings devoid of any sense of beauty, creativity, or aesthetics.

Luckily, despite the protest of basically everyone in the business, but to the joy of everyone who appreciates buildings, he was given building permit by the state.

But architects still suck.

I happen to quite like the sheer, austere, straight sided and pristine style of building.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on November 22, 2018, 01:40:37 pm

Brutalism and the empty post-modern styles get bad raps for looking hideous or stupid, but I actually prefer them to attempts to recreate old styles of architecture. At least the first category are an honest representation of contemporary feelings, while attempts to re-create the past (even if the style is more attractive) comes off as tacky more than anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 22, 2018, 01:48:29 pm

An architecture of aesthetics ought to suffice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 01:55:26 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on November 22, 2018, 01:40:37 pm

At least the first category are an honest representation of contemporary feelings

No. It is in fact the opposite. People hate it and thinks it sucks. "Tacky attempts to re-create the past" is more in line with and a more "honest representation of contemporary feelings" than shitty box buildings will ever be.

The argument is ridiculous anyway. There's nothing contemporary about shitty box houses. That is the ideal of 50-80 years ago, that's when it was popular and new. Today it is simply tacky attempts to recreate the past.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 22, 2018, 02:26:25 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

That's what happens if a region has no major societal problems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 02:32:11 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

First of all, Sweden does not have mayors

Second of all

We don't live in fucking orange juices okay

We just don't

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 22, 2018, 02:34:04 pm

No you just live in swede (turnip) juice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on November 22, 2018, 02:47:12 pm

Honestly, I prefer emulating older styles in architecture instead of slamming another soulles cube living block. In a way, a return to what was once considered beautiful could, in fact, represent the feelings of the modern man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 03:04:07 pm

I find it strange to go around Southern California and view a lot of the ultra-narrow cigarette houses as being "quaint" and "rustic", considering that they were precisely the same kind of "cash in with cheap houses on expensive real estate" strategy designed to get as many people paying top dollar for location as possible...

Maybe I just have a lot of old memories coming out of houses like that, so I equate them with nostalgia now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 03:05:36 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 02:32:11 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

First of all, Sweden does not have mayors

Second of all

We don't live in fucking orange juices okay

We just don't

Are you going to tell.me you don't suckle on narwhals for nutrition?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 03:07:59 pm

Just the tip.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 03:25:52 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 03:05:36 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 02:32:11 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

First of all, Sweden does not have mayors

Second of all

We don't live in fucking orange juices okay

We just don't

Are you going to tell.me you don't suckle on narwhals for nutrition?

hey, narmilk isn't a kind of juice. And it's blue, not orange!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 22, 2018, 03:26:55 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 03:25:52 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 03:05:36 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 02:32:11 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 01:58:57 pm

I mean, there was that Swedish dude who caused an uproar and had the goddamn mayor come out and yell at him to repaint his house, because he painted the outside in this shifting spectrum "sunset" color scheme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.viivilla.no/contentassets/ecad4dc600f64c4f85a2d9ac49c91a0d/skanninge.jpg?preset=width700)

Complaints from the homeowners association included "They're just not Swedish colors!".


EDIT: Thank you, Alexa.

First of all, Sweden does not have mayors

Second of all

We don't live in fucking orange juices okay

We just don't

Are you going to tell.me you don't suckle on narwhals for nutrition?

hey, narmilk isn't a kind of juice. And it's blue, not orange!

A-are you Luke Skywalker?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 03:29:17 pm

Loke Skyvalkare

The Sk is pronounced SH

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 04:30:59 pm

THE LEGENDS SAY Stockholm was planned by the gods themselves.  After
the fall of Trollheim it was the gods who led a band of vikings to a
promised land in the West. 
There, Sigurd-Worm-In-The-Eye and Harald Bluetooth were born
to a swedish supermodel and nursed by a friendly she-narwhal.
Upon reaching manhood, the twins founded Stockholm on the shores
of the Lake Mälaren.  The city prospered and grew until one day the
Stockholmians reached out from their tiny domain with a great dream of
glory...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 04:43:19 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 04:30:59 pm

THE LEGENDS SAY Stockholm was planned by the gods themselves.  After
the fall of Trollheim it was the gods who led a band of vikings to a
promised land in the West.

Wait a minute.

Are you saying Swedes come from

Finland

???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 04:45:36 pm

Are you finnished yet?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on November 22, 2018, 04:49:05 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 22, 2018, 04:43:19 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 22, 2018, 04:30:59 pm

THE LEGENDS SAY Stockholm was planned by the gods themselves.  After
the fall of Trollheim it was the gods who led a band of vikings to a
promised land in the West.

Wait a minute.

Are you saying Swedes come from

Finland

???

Obviously they come from Gothland, explaining why they are so averse to social contact.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 04:53:21 pm

Goddammit I hate how ??+? is a ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 22, 2018, 05:07:14 pm

???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 22, 2018, 05:35:53 pm

I have often been plagued by emoji-based problems like A), having letters and numbers turn into a pair of shades and 8), the confusing result when you end a sentence a little too questioningly ???

That is, of course, until one remembers to slap the "don't use smileys" checkbox under "Attachments and other options" when publishing a post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2018, 05:50:26 pm

Solves problem until somebody quotes you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 22, 2018, 07:53:50 pm

??????

[nobbc]for the win[/nobbc]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on November 23, 2018, 12:15:26 am

nobbc is the best tag

I also have smileys turned off. I prefer them this way. ^_^

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 23, 2018, 08:43:59 am

Dey thirty-four, in the Parliamentary House. Theresa May still won't resign (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46319275/theresa-may-avoids-resignation-question)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 23, 2018, 09:32:57 am

*Jezza chanting getting steadily closer from behind a door*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 24, 2018, 02:15:49 pm

Meanwhile in France the French are protesting their King (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46328439)

*EDIT

Quote

A poll this week indicated that 73% of people in France have expressed support for the protests, which have been characterised as a grassroots movement lacking in clear leadership.

do u hear the ppl sing singing the song of angry men (https://news.sky.com/story/tear-gas-fired-at-furious-protesters-in-france-11561900)

*Double edit
French people surprised that the neoliberal banker who promised to cut taxes for the rich and raise taxes on the French delivers (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/paris-police-tear-gas-disperse-yellow-vest-protest-181124110401053.html), protests even spread to French overseas territory (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/frances-fuel-protests-stretched-islands-reunion-181122110413086.html)
Imagine my shock

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on November 24, 2018, 02:48:41 pm

Welp, time to man the barricades. It's a french tradition after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 24, 2018, 03:44:59 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on November 24, 2018, 02:48:41 pm

Welp, time to man the barricades. It's a french tradition after all.

*Oils Guillotine*

I do prefer Macron to the alternative, but neoliberal policies will neoliberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 24, 2018, 03:50:36 pm

Le Macron est better than le Trudeau, so can't complain too much   ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 24, 2018, 03:52:29 pm

https://youtu.be/PpLfvBcxjyo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 25, 2018, 08:22:01 pm

Ukraine vs Russia intensifies. (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/world/the-latest-ukraine-russia-opens-fire-on-ukrainian-vessels/878291999)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on November 25, 2018, 08:32:11 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on November 24, 2018, 03:44:59 pm

Quote from: redwallzyl on November 24, 2018, 02:48:41 pm

Welp, time to man the barricades. It's a french tradition after all.

*Oils Guillotine*

I do prefer Macron to the alternative, but neoliberal policies will neoliberal.

Do not use oil on your guillotine, malheureux ! It's expensive and people are actually protesting the price of oil.

Aside that, this is not really a big deal. Price of oil goes up because international politics made so that we have one less import source, and because the government wants to nudge the country toward renewable energy. Some people get the short end of the stick and are legitimately angry, most of them are used as a political ram by political minorities against a government they cannot attack otherwise.

Macron is actually really good, and is not "just a neoliberal". Dude solved the NDDL issue in two weeks after right and left wing government broke their teeth on it for ten years total by just discussing with the protestors. There's more to the guy than just an ex banker with a severe case of gerontophilia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 25, 2018, 08:42:21 pm

Oh, my remark on the neoliberalism had less to do with the gas tax, and more to do with tax cuts and labor union stuff.

I do know that France has needed changes in some of these aspects, and Macrón seems to be a legitimately good leader. I just don't like everything I hear about him and saw a chance for a french revolution joek. :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on November 25, 2018, 09:07:38 pm

Russia seizes 3 ships from Ukrainian navy in the Kerch strait, Ukraine plans to formally declare war. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/25/russia-blockades-strategic-waterway-stop-ukrainian-ships-entering/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on November 25, 2018, 09:11:30 pm

Fook ye, finally a new european war

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on November 26, 2018, 02:19:52 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on November 25, 2018, 09:07:38 pm

Russia seizes 3 ships from Ukrainian navy in the Kerch strait, Ukraine plans to formally declare war. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/25/russia-blockades-strategic-waterway-stop-ukrainian-ships-entering/)

Oh noes, there will be even more Ukrainian immigrants to Poland.
But that's ok, they're white.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on November 26, 2018, 03:12:31 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on November 25, 2018, 09:07:38 pm

Russia seizes 3 ships from Ukrainian navy in the Kerch strait, Ukraine plans to formally declare war. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/25/russia-blockades-strategic-waterway-stop-ukrainian-ships-entering/)

Martial law (most likely limited to several regions, details aren't know yet and I wouldn't be surprised if Ukrainian parliament won't support it at all) isn't declaration of war.

This thing is new. It is the first direct attack by Russian armed forces. It isn't unknown "little green men" or "rebels that somehow got newest Russian weapons in a shop".
Not that it will result in anything more substantial than blockade of Ukrainian ports in Azov sea and many deep concerns around the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on November 26, 2018, 04:00:44 pm

So I guess we can expect more sanctions except the sanctions that really matters.

Would love to see some actual spine for once.  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 26, 2018, 06:31:15 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on November 25, 2018, 09:11:30 pm

Fook ye, finally a new european war

I don't like how the last Crimean wars have been handled nor do I like the prospect of another. Be a bit fair though if NATO confiscated Russian ships going through Bosphorous, Channel e.t.c., only fair to be consistent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 26, 2018, 10:19:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 26, 2018, 06:31:15 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on November 25, 2018, 09:11:30 pm

Fook ye, finally a new european war

I don't like how the last Crimean wars have been handled nor do I like the prospect of another. Be a bit fair though if NATO confiscated Russian ships going through Bosphorous, Channel e.t.c., only fair to be consistent

This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War  Yes, I know you meant the Russian annexation, just being intentionally obtuse as a friendly troll :) and you said wars, so...

It would be nice if NATO actually took charge, but they’d probably be like, ‘Ukraine’s not a member, so, not our jurdicision’

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 26, 2018, 10:32:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 26, 2018, 10:19:28 pm

This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War  Yes, I know you meant the Russian annexation, just being intentionally obtuse as a friendly troll :) and you said wars, so...

It would be nice if NATO actually took charge, but they’d probably be like, ‘Ukraine’s not a member, so, not our jurdicision’

Then why condemn with inaction? Opposition without opposition is the worst of both worlds, as you sacrifice impartiality but improve the lot of no-one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on November 27, 2018, 12:11:32 am

It is not about helping Ukraine. After all Ukraine has no real alliance with anyone.

But what Russia did violates basic international rules regarding freedom of navigation. Why even have international laws and treaties if they can be ignored like that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on November 27, 2018, 12:17:55 am

Quote from: Strongpoint on November 26, 2018, 03:12:31 am

Martial law (most likely limited to several regions, details aren't know yet and I wouldn't be surprised if Ukrainian parliament won't support it at all) isn't declaration of war.

Sorry, I didn't fully read the article, I just heard from a relative that that's what they're going to do.

Quote from: Strongpoint on November 27, 2018, 12:11:32 am

But what Russia did violates basic international rules regarding freedom of navigation. Why even have international laws and treaties if they can be ignored like that?

My guess is it's precisely because of what you said -- no-one truly gives a shit about Ukraine, the international laws are just there for the big 'uns to protect themselves and NATO etc. emptily condemn the action, impose fake sanctions and so forth to give the impression that they're there for everyone's interests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on November 27, 2018, 12:29:04 am

Putin is testing the waters.

He knows that the world is not in any hurry to return to having a nuclear pea-shooter aimed at its head, and wants to see how far he can take the "russia as sleeping bear" routine in international politics. 

Annex crimea; World protests, but does nothing to stop the bear.
Ok, Let's stir up shit in Syria; World protests, but does not really do anything to stop the bear.
OK THEN! Let's impound ships we have no business impounding!  [Do you really expect there to be anything other than impotent outrage?]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on November 27, 2018, 01:29:18 am

Quote from: wierd on November 27, 2018, 12:29:04 am

He knows that the world is not in any hurry to return to having a nuclear pea-shooter aimed at its head, and wants to see how far he can take the "russia as sleeping bear" routine in international politics. 

IMO, possible Nuclear war has nothing to do with lack of strong reaction to Russian international policy. Money are the reason. Imposing real sanctions will seriously reduce profits of important people in the West.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 27, 2018, 05:50:07 am

Latest polls showed that if  there were elections now, only 47% of Russians would vote for Putin, compared to the 77% he got re-elected with 7 months ago.
Russian intervention in Syria didn't get him as much credit as he had hoped.
So I guess what's happening now is just Putin trying to shift attention away from domestic issues.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 27, 2018, 09:18:07 am

Quote from: wierd on November 27, 2018, 12:29:04 am

Putin is testing the waters.
He knows that the world is not in any hurry to return to having a nuclear pea-shooter aimed at its head, and wants to see how far he can take the "russia as sleeping bear" routine in international politics. 
Annex crimea; World protests, but does nothing to stop the bear.
Ok, Let's stir up shit in Syria; World protests, but does not really do anything to stop the bear.
OK THEN! Let's impound ships we have no business impounding!  [Do you really expect there to be anything other than impotent outrage?]

This is beyond Putin, Russia has been perfecting a form of salami warfare, where it is conducted slice by slice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxbFk4viTSQ) in order to not trigger any large confrontation before their objectives have been secured. Sponsor local insurrection, send in volunteers to help the insurrection, send in paratroopers and armoured units to help the volunteers, send in reserves to apply pressure to the whole frontier. It is altogether the same with China's gradual consolidation of the South China Seas under armoured fishing ships & naval bases

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 28, 2018, 05:26:11 am

Yeah i don’t have any doubt that the whole business with the “”””rebels”””” in eastern Ukraine was kicked off to leave Ukraine’s army stretched too thin to even think about being able to reclaim Crimea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on November 28, 2018, 07:02:16 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on November 28, 2018, 05:26:11 am

Yeah i don’t have any doubt that the whole business with the “”””rebels”””” in eastern Ukraine was kicked off to leave Ukraine’s army stretched too thin to even think about being able to reclaim Crimea.

Well, nope. There are\were zero % chance of Ukrainian army advancing in Crimea, distracted or not. The whole business with the "rebels" was to occupy rest of Ukraine. That plan failed because Ukrainians resisted far harder than was expected.

Among other news Russian have forced captured Ukrainian to speak nonsense on camera and Ukrainian sailors are under trial for "violating Russian borders". I am quite sure that it breaks Geneva convention in few places but who cares, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 06:15:16 pm

Quote from: Strongpoint on November 28, 2018, 07:02:16 am

Well, nope. There are\were zero % chance of Ukrainian army advancing in Crimea, distracted or not. The whole business with the "rebels" was to occupy rest of Ukraine. That plan failed because Ukrainians resisted far harder than was expected.

More likely keep the rest of Ukraine occupied than to occupy all of Ukraine, make the cost of a NATO intervention WWIII, while working on de facto integration of the "autonomous" breakaway rebel states in Donetsk and Luhansk

Quote from: Strongpoint on November 28, 2018, 07:02:16 am

Among other news Russian have forced captured Ukrainian to speak nonsense on camera and Ukrainian sailors are under trial for "violating Russian borders". I am quite sure that it breaks Geneva convention in few places but who cares, right?

The important thing is it proves they're alive. Doesn't break the geneva convention as far as I'm aware, as speaking nonsense under duress while on camera isn't putting them in harms way, especially since no one in the world believes those men aren't being forced to read the script. But it is a highly illegal act to kidnap foreign servicemen and steal their ships, but Russia sits on the UN security council so in this matter they can act like Americans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 06:18:43 pm

German official proposes African countries adopt voluntary colonialism (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-46017551)

Really makes me think hmmmmmmmm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 28, 2018, 06:24:28 pm

Turned out all the Great Replacement racists were projecting. Imagine my shock

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 28, 2018, 06:31:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 06:18:43 pm

German official proposes African countries adopt voluntary colonialism (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-46017551)

Really makes me think hmmmmmmmm

*Imperalism intensifies*

"Hey, you know all those problems we helped cause by being huge dicks and drawing dumb borders? You wanna rent some land to us so we can ruin your economies again?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on November 28, 2018, 06:57:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 06:18:43 pm

German official proposes African countries adopt voluntary colonialism (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-46017551)

Really makes me think hmmmmmmmm

That is a legendarily bad idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on November 28, 2018, 07:04:52 pm

Always a little suspicious of news articles that just label someone "senior" without much more detail.

Dude has a wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Nooke) article, turns out his full position is "Personal Representative of the German Chancellor for Africa", and he's a physicist who got into politics via civil rights activism. So sounds like someone let the diplomat spit-ball. That never ends up sounding very smart xD

Going by the historical precedent of "hey we'll buy this patch of land from you and toats give it back later" doesn't tend to end well for the sellers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 07:10:34 pm

It's not imperialism when the free market does it. The McDonalds Congo will be a land of prosperity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on November 28, 2018, 07:11:58 pm

We need some sort of zone in Africa in which free trade can prosper, so that Africans could finally reach the developmental level of Europe. This way the Africans could get educated and, of course, civilised. This zone would not be affiliated with any country in the world, of course. It would have to be some kind of... Free State, you know?

Ninja'ed by the eternal anglo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on November 28, 2018, 07:12:24 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 07:10:34 pm

It's not imperialism when the free market does it. The McDonalds Congo will be a land of prosperity

A free Congolese hand in every Happy Meal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 28, 2018, 07:13:21 pm

McDonald's touch screens all have faeces on them.

Fun facts for you and your children.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 07:20:45 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on November 28, 2018, 07:11:58 pm

We need some sort of zone in Africa in which free trade can prosper, so that Africans could finally reach the developmental level of Europe. This way the Africans could get educated and, of course, civilised. This zone would not be affiliated with any country in the world, of course. It would have to be some kind of... Free State, you know?

Ninja'ed by the eternal anglo.

Alternative take:
Cyberpunk sahel Hong Kongs

*EDIT
Live audio of the McDonalds Imperial HQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Gkh_9hyi8)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on November 28, 2018, 07:28:17 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2018, 06:18:43 pm

German official proposes African countries adopt voluntary colonialism (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-46017551)

Really makes me think hmmmmmmmm

It's still colonialism and doesn't sound very voluntary if at least two examples got shut down HARD.

Whatever happened to just investing and trying to help those countries with what they do have? Obviously they'd still have to deal with the local governments, but given the geopolitical complexity that is Africa, it seems like just barging in (yes, I know it's not saying that it'll be by force or under duress) will just destabilize things.

editwhiletyping: I just noticed that an AMERICAN came up with the idea, lol. You know, maybe we should try ideas from Africans instead of trying to impose Imperialism?

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on November 28, 2018, 07:11:58 pm

We need some sort of zone in Africa in which free trade can prosper, so that Africans could finally reach the developmental level of Europe. This way the Africans could get educated and, of course, civilised. This zone would not be affiliated with any country in the world, of course. It would have to be some kind of... Free State, you know?

Ninja'ed by the eternal anglo.

You can fit several Europes into the whole that is the continent of Africa. I'm not saying that it can't work, but you'd have to reconcile cultures, etc, that are far more diverse than Europe.

There is already an African Union of sorts though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on November 28, 2018, 08:56:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on November 28, 2018, 07:28:17 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on November 28, 2018, 07:11:58 pm

We need some sort of zone in Africa in which free trade can prosper, so that Africans could finally reach the developmental level of Europe. This way the Africans could get educated and, of course, civilised. This zone would not be affiliated with any country in the world, of course. It would have to be some kind of... Free State, you know?

Ninja'ed by the eternal anglo.

You can fit several Europes into the whole that is the continent of Africa. I'm not saying that it can't work, but you'd have to reconcile cultures, etc, that are far more diverse than Europe.

There is already an African Union of sorts though.

I think you missed the joke. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 28, 2018, 09:02:50 pm

We all missed the divine joke named existence.

Government is but one branch of our perpetual folly, our laughable ineptitude.

From troubles of the world I turn to ducks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When God had finished the stars and whirl of coloured suns
He turned His mind from big things to fashion little ones;
Beautiful tiny things (like daisies) He made, and then
He made the comical ones in case the minds of men
Should stiffen and become
Dull, humourless and glum,
And so forgetful of their Maker be
As to take even themselves – quite seriously.
Caterpillars and cats are lively and excellent puns:
All God’s jokes are good – even the practical ones!
And as for the duck, 1 think God must have smiled a bit
Seeing those bright eyes blink on the day He fashioned it.
And he’s probably laughing still at the sound that came
out of its bill!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on November 28, 2018, 09:06:16 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 28, 2018, 09:02:50 pm

We all missed the divine joke named existence.

Government is but one branch of our perpetual folly, our laughable ineptitude.

From troubles of the world I turn to ducks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When God had finished the stars and whirl of coloured suns
He turned His mind from big things to fashion little ones;
Beautiful tiny things (like daisies) He made, and then
He made the comical ones in case the minds of men
Should stiffen and become
Dull, humourless and glum,
And so forgetful of their Maker be
As to take even themselves – quite seriously.
Caterpillars and cats are lively and excellent puns:
All God’s jokes are good – even the practical ones!
And as for the duck, 1 think God must have smiled a bit
Seeing those bright eyes blink on the day He fashioned it.
And he’s probably laughing still at the sound that came
out of its bill!

Is Crusader Kings II invading our European joke thread? I say yes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.redd.it/k2h8nzv8fmy11.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 29, 2018, 05:00:12 am

Truly, Holy Furry is the best dlc of all time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: mrkilla22 on November 30, 2018, 05:13:37 pm

It was definitely excellent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on December 01, 2018, 06:37:21 am

Soooooo, how's that Brexit business going on, Loud Whispers?

Last time I checked here, you were quite sure that Britain, led by the glorious May, was about to get ALL the bilateral deals in the world through its tea-powered meme magic and get into a much better position that it was in before, buuuuut recently I've been hearing that British parliament sees "no-deal-Brexit" as being actually preferable to the deal that is currently on the table by May, and it made me quite curious as to how did she fuck it up THAT bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 01, 2018, 07:04:35 am

Mainly because she never wanted to leave, I'd guess, and her 'leave' was as close to 'remain' as she could make it.
So it's not leave. And it's not remain. And it's not liked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thret
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 07:12:18 am

The problem is you've got a bunch of fundamentally incompatible red lines from the various parties involved.

Just to name two big ones:
- Can't have a border at Ireland (NI, RoI), can't have a border at the Irish Sea (DUP, Scotland*), but have to have a border between EU and UK (UK Gov).
- Can't have freedom of movement of people (UK Gov), but can't have freedom of movement of goods and services without freedom of movement of people (EU), but can't damage any of the many current businesses in the UK that rely on freedom of movement of goods and services (NI, Scotland, Parliament).

The former is an impossible paradox, hence the Brexiteers citing non-existing "technological solutions". They may as well be saying "magic pixies" will solve that one.

The latter is because there's no majority in parliament to harm business**, since they're all well aware that any party that does that much damage to our economy isn't going to last the next election cycle.

May was basically the one left holding the hot potato after the last Tory leadership contest, and none of the Brexiteers in Parliament have the balls to 'take charge' and admit that they want to essentially cripple a good chunk of current British businesses (and there's no way they could win any leadership contest if they did). At it's core, this agreement is just stalling for time so that May can hope that the paradoxes resolve themselves before the transition period it runs out.

* Scotland won't accept that NI can be treated specially and given a competitive advantage over Scotland in terms of Single-Market Access, especially since both voted to remain.

** And we're not talking Banks in London either, my Midlands based office is paid a good percentage of it's monthly income in euros, we are part of a larger europe-wide set of offices that are then owned by a global business, and we fly our people out to Europe regularly and work with European businesses a lot. Like many businesses in the UK, as a service industry, our entire role is as middlemen who don't create any physical good or sell any product except the services we provide. That's an office and livelihood of about 100 people right there, which a no deal would screw over.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 10:34:34 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 01, 2018, 06:37:21 am

Soooooo, how's that Brexit business going on, Loud Whispers?

Whole lot of nothing's really happening, Theresa May's plan didn't survive contact with the House of Commons.

Quote from: Sergarr on December 01, 2018, 06:37:21 am

Last time I checked here, you were quite sure that Britain, led by the glorious May, was about to get ALL the bilateral deals in the world through its tea-powered meme magic and get into a much better position that it was in before, buuuuut recently I've been hearing that British parliament sees "no-deal-Brexit" as being actually preferable to the deal that is currently on the table by May, and it made me quite curious as to how did she fuck it up THAT bad.

You must have me confused with someone else, I have zero optimism for the future of the United Kingdom, while it is useless to speak of bilateral trade deals whilst we are a member of the European Union. It is not a case of whether we can make good or bad trade deals, it is simply the case that we can make 0 trade deals at all whilst we are a member of the EU. No-deal Brexit is my preferred option, Theresa May buggered it by finding a solution which united Remain & Leave in united opposal, which is an astounding achievement.

The UK paid £19B to the EU last year, Theresa May managed to somehow negotiate the UK's contribution to the EU for leaving up to £39B. Altogether an impressive feat of incompetence. Her plan also sees the entirety of the British Isles remain in the customs union & the single market, which obviously does not sit well with Leave voters as we'd continue to be economically integrated into the EU, and still would be unable to represent our own nation in the world. De facto integration would continue, whilst Brexit will have been done in name only. Yet this also does not appease Remain voters, primarily for two reasons: The first and lesser, is that it constitutes the obligations of EU membership without any influence over Europe, the second and most important is that it does not settle anything about Brexit. It'd just be another temporary measure to kick the can down the road and buy Theresa May more time (the deal would expire in 21 months after signing) to salvage her career, instead of delivering on her promise as well as the promise of the previous conservative government to leave the EU's institutions, including the single market & customs union. Such is life on prison shitpost island, when everyone you elect supports Remain. This is made all the more confusing by the clusterfuck of shifting loyalties within the House of Commons. The Labour MPs support pro-Remain measures, but they are led by Corbyn, who wants Brexit to be done with so the British can move on to actually saving the institutions we're playing political football with. The Conservative MPs support pro-Leave measures, but they are led by Theresa May, who wants the Brexit process to be dragged on indefinitely to delay and water down the actual significance of leaving at all. Besides the blessedly consistent DUP, there is little but uncertainty amongst the political class at a time where both factions crave the certainty of a firm decision.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 07:12:18 am

The problem is you've got a bunch of fundamentally incompatible red lines from the various parties involved.
Just to name two big ones:
- Can't have a border at Ireland (NI, RoI), can't have a border at the Irish Sea (DUP, Scotland*), but have to have a border between EU and UK (UK Gov).
- Can't have freedom of movement of people (UK Gov), but can't have freedom of movement of goods and services without freedom of movement of people (EU), but can't damage any of the many current businesses in the UK that rely on freedom of movement of goods and services (NI, Scotland, Parliament).
The former is an impossible paradox, hence the Brexiteers citing non-existing "technological solutions". They may as well be saying "magic pixies" will solve that one.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 05:30:55 pm

Spoiler: obligatory (click to show/hide)

The Ireland-Northern Ireland situation is pretty simple* for the immediate future, the Republic of Ireland is not a member of the schengen area nor is Northern Ireland or the UK. The UK and Ireland have had de facto free movement for the past century of peace time in their own bilateral agreements and cooperation, whilst both have maintained the same hesitance towards entangling one's nation with EU institutions. Ireland does not have land connections to the EU through Northern Ireland, its major connection is to Northern Ireland & the UK itself (which is something I would be intrigued to see change, if the EU built a tunnel connecting Ireland to the UK, Ireland would have a direct land connection to Europe through overland railway and the channel tunnel).

Regarding this, in an unusual display of unanimous sanity, Irish, British and EU leaders have all agreed to maintain the status quo in order to not provoke new troubles.
(https://i.imgur.com/JsPL4do.png)
Green = Common Travel Area
Blue = Schengen Area
Grey = Dudes who use borders when their governments exist
*Thus it is simple for the purposes of travel arrangements. Everything stays the same in that regard

The reason why Theresa May says it can't work is because she supports Remain and has very little faith in the mental capabilities of the British people. Give her technical solutions a dose of salt, it's a complete lie. The paradox is one Theresa May intends to use in order to keep negotiations going in perpetuity, an extension to the transition to an extension of the transition ad infinitum.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 07:12:18 am

May was basically the one left holding the hot potato after the last Tory leadership contest, and none of the Brexiteers in Parliament have the balls to 'take charge' and admit that they want to essentially cripple a good chunk of current British businesses (and there's no way they could win any leadership contest if they did). At it's core, this agreement is just stalling for time so that May can hope that the paradoxes resolve themselves before the transition period it runs out.

Do you believe in this cartoonish fantasy of ball grabbing?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 10:48:30 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 10:34:34 am

Do you believe in this cartoonish fantasy of ball grabbing?

You mean the Hot Potato or the "not having the balls to admit to wanting to cripple some of our current businesses in pursuit of future business that will slow down growth due to the time needed to build the new contacts and infrastructure at the local and business level"?

Because the former is more or less how the last leadership contest went down as far as I can tell, the latter is that no pro-Leave politicians seem to be willing to say that reduced growth is an inevitable consequence of throwing away the current status quo.

None of the brexiteers in the Tory party seem to like to say that yes, leaving the EU will obviously make us poorer in the short term of the next decade and will obviously be damaging to current businesses that benefit from the services and goods arrangements we currently have, but they think the opportunities after the dust is settled outweigh that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:04:41 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 10:48:30 am

You mean the Hot Potato or the "not having the balls to admit to wanting to cripple some of our current businesses in pursuit of future business that will slow down growth due to the time needed to build the new contacts and infrastructure at the local and business level"?

Because the former is more or less how the last leadership contest went down as far as I can tell, the latter is that throwing away the current status quo. None of the brexiteers in the Tory party seem to like to say that yes, leaving the EU will obviously make us poorer in the short term of the next decade and will obviously be damaging to current businesses that benefit from the services and goods arrangements we currently have, but they think the opportunities after the dust is settled outweigh that.

Bit of both really, but I mostly wanted to continue your metaphor of ball grabbing for puerile reasons. I apologise as the deed is done.
In the Tory leadership contest, it was taken as a given that Boris Johnson was going to become Prime Minister. He was a high-profile public figure, he was popular amongst MPs and voters, most importantly he had led a significant portion of the Leave campaign and supported (lukewarmly) the call for a referendum from 2015. That is until Michael Gove, who had been his second in command during the Leave campaign & was the man charged with leading Boris's leadership bid... Withdrew his support and announced his own leadership bid. This split Boris's support between them and forced Boris to withdraw, crippling his leadership bid and leaving Theresa May as the frontrunner. Theresa May then had to beat Andrea Leadsom, but given that she was Home Secretary and Leadsom was not, that was a foregone conclusion. Afterwards, Gove is reported as going on holiday with George Osborne, David Cameron's right hand man and Boris's rival. Gove then returns under May's government in 2017 as the cabinet minister for environmental affairs. We will continue to pick up the pieces of Cameron's machinations for generations to come

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:08:23 am

Well yeah, Boris Johnson and Gove basically mutually stabbed each other in the back. I do think the British people dodged one hell of a bullet there. BoJo as PM. Brrr.

I was half expecting the Rains of Castamere to start playing the middle of Parliament when all of that was going on xD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:13:10 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:08:23 am

Well yeah, Boris Johnson and Gove basically mutually stabbed each other in the back. I do think the British people dodged one hell of a bullet there. BoJo as PM. Brrr.

I was half expecting the Rains of Castamere to start playing the middle of Parliament when all of that was going on xD

Boris for all his flaws, sins and failures, cannot be accused of stabbing Gove in the back; perhaps Cameron could make the case that Boris betrayed him. It came rather as a surprise when Gove sent the Lannister's regards.

*Fake edit
Looking over it, it seems my inference was correct:

Quote from: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-david-cameron-text-gove-brexit-prime-minister-betrayal-a7376256.html

Former Prime Minister David Cameron texted Boris Johnson to gloat after the now-Foreign Secretary was betrayed in his Tory leadership bid by Leave Campaign ally Michael Gove, a new book has claimed.
Mr Gove managed Mr Johnson’s campaign to be Mr Cameron's successor, before changing his mind the night before nominations were announced and running himself, forcing Mr Johnson to withdraw from the contest.
Mr Cameron, who campaigned to remain in the EU and resigned over the referendum result, texted Mr Johnson and said "you should have stuck with me, mate," following the debacle, author Tim Shipman has said.

Cameron & Osborne got Gove to destroy the Boris bid

*Real edit
My god substantial retroactive edits are hard to follow ;D

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:08:23 am

As for NI: It's the business and regulation side of the CTE that causes the issue with the border, separate from the border of people. Note I listed free movement of people as the second issue, and referenced the 'technical solutions' aspect for the first. Should have been clearer about that though, I'll admit.
You either allow goods and services to flow freely between NI and RoI but have border checks of those goods at the Irish Sea, or don't allow them to flow freely and introduce a barrier at NI, or rely on the "magic technology that doesn't exist yet pixie" to fix it.

Option 3: Allow goods & services to flow freely between ROI, NI & UK

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 10:48:30 am

Because the former is more or less how the last leadership contest went down as far as I can tell, the latter is that no pro-Leave politicians seem to be willing to say that reduced growth is an inevitable consequence of throwing away the current status quo.

Why would they say something they don't believe in?

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 10:48:30 am

None of the brexiteers in the Tory party seem to like to say that yes, leaving the EU will obviously make us poorer in the short term of the next decade and will obviously be damaging to current businesses that benefit from the services and goods arrangements we currently have, but they think the opportunities after the dust is settled outweigh that.

Might as well let project fear run the show

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

I'm definitely of the opinion that the main motivator for Boris Johnson throughout the entire referendum was to position himself as the next leader of the Tory party. So seeing that go down in flames was rather satisfying.

Also you keep replying whilst I try and edit in some more comments, so I keep editing them down to the next post xD

They're going into this one now:

As for NI: As I understand it, it is the business and regulation side of the CTE that causes the issue with the border, separate from the border of just people. Note I listed free movement of people as the second issue, and referenced the 'technical solutions' aspect for the first. Should have been clearer about that though, I'll admit.

You either allow goods and services to flow freely between NI and RoI but have border checks of those goods at the Irish Sea (and a pissed of Scotland*), or don't allow them to flow freely and introduce a barrier at NI, or rely on the "magic technology that doesn't exist yet pixie" to fix it.

As an aside, the argument from many politicians that "nobody voted to be poorer" seems daft since I don't know how anyone could vote Leave and not expect the country to be poorer in the short-to-medium-term whilst the time is taken to build up the new infrastructure, business connections and whatnot. But none of the pro-Leave politicians seem to turn around and point this out, which tells me they're afraid of the political consequences of doing so.

* Since they voted to Remain, so wouldn't like Ireland getting that advantage.**
** Admittedly is can be hard to tell the difference between an 'actually pissed-off Scotland' and a 'normal amount of pissed-off Scotland' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2q0T7QXETs).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:24:37 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 10:34:34 am

Quote from: Sergarr on December 01, 2018, 06:37:21 am

Soooooo, how's that Brexit business going on, Loud Whispers?

Whole lot of nothing's really happening, Theresa May's plan didn't survive contact with the House of Commons.

More like didn't survive contact with reality. Like those irreconcilable red lines mentioned last page, all of that is going to happen in a hard no-deal Brexit regardless.

The Good Friday Deal (I think that's what it was called? The treaty between NI and the UK) being a third rail in UK politics doesn't help in this situation here either as a Brexit is going to screw with it.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

* Since they voted to Remain, so wouldn't like Ireland getting that advantage.

I also remember something like 80% of Scotland voting Remain. Edit: Didn't actually read the first part of your post and assumed you meant NI, but I guess you were referring to Scotland?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:36:04 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

I'm definitely of the opinion that the main motivator for Boris Johnson throughout the entire referendum was to position himself as the next leader of the Tory party. So seeing that go down in flames was rather satisfying.

I would say your opinion is founded in truth

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

Also you keep replying whilst I try and edit in some more comments, so I keep editing them down to the next post xD

My god, same here xD

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

You either allow goods and services to flow freely between NI and RoI but have border checks of those goods at the Irish Sea, or don't allow them to flow freely and introduce a barrier at NI, or rely on the "magic technology that doesn't exist yet pixie" to fix it.

Or option 3: Stop trying to fix what isn't broke. We have zero obligation to defend the integrity of the single market, there is no need for the UK to set up a customs border and pay for it, it's a Trumpian accord for the benefit of the EU's authority - which if we cared for, we would never intend to leave.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:19:16 am

As an aside, the argument from many politicians that "nobody voted to be poorer" seems daft since I don't know how anyone could vote Leave and not expect the country to be poorer in the short-to-medium-term whilst the time is taken to build up the new infrastructure, business connections and whatnot. But none of the pro-Leave politicians seem to turn around and point this out, which tells me they're afraid of the political consequences of doing so.

This makes the assumption that no pro-Leave MPs actually believe in Brexit, they have merely adopted the pro-Leave stance out of personal ambition. This isn't true of the backbencher rebels who first put Cameron's feet to the fire. Otherwise yes, the rest are most likely political mercenaries who don't sincerely believe in Brexit. I don't expect they believe in Remain either. I don't expect they believe in much at all :d

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:24:37 am

More like didn't survive contact with reality. Like those irreconcilable red lines mentioned last page, all of that is going to happen in a hard no-deal Brexit regardless.

Read the "obligatory" response to those red lines. Before you get all smug with the reality has a Remain bias slogan, do please recall that from David Cameron to Theresa May, the entire process has been managed by politicians who support Remain, with the former intentionally sabotaging the negotiation process in order to make it seem unappealing prior to the referendum vote. I should very much have preferred to see what could have been achieved 2 years ago had we had a Nigel Farage or Jacob Rees-Mogg in the cabinet, instead of Theresa May or Boris Johnson.

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:24:37 am

I also remember something like 80% of Scotland voting Remain.

62%

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:42:00 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:36:04 am

This makes the assumption that no pro-Leave MPs actually believe in Brexit, they have merely adopted the pro-Leave stance out of personal ambition. This isn't true of the backbencher rebels who first put Cameron's feet to the fire. Otherwise yes, the rest are most likely political mercenaries who don't sincerely believe in Brexit. I don't expect they believe in Remain either. I don't expect they believe in much at all :d

Not necessarily, I'm strictly talking about the short-to-medium term. You can genuinely believe that in the long term the country can be better off, but to expect that to happen immediately or even in a matter of a few years even seems...naive? Daft? Willingly ignorant of reality? Hence why I'm calling them out on not saying "of course we'll be worse off in the short-term, it's the long term benefits that I believe in". I could respect that stance a lot more, for one. But that they aren't just coming out and saying that seems underhanded and disingenuous at best.

Quote

Or option 3: Stop trying to fix what isn't broke. We have zero obligation to defend the integrity of the single market, there is no need for the UK to set up a customs border and pay for it, it's a Trumpian accord for the benefit of the EU's authority - which if we cared for, we would never intend to leave.

So...your stance is that we allow a goods border to be brought back to Northern Ireland? Problem is that this wouldn't get through Parliament, would damage businesses in NI, and the majority of NI parties would oppose it so that's going to stoke some more political trouble. Which goes back to the second of the red lines I listed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:50:06 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:36:04 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:24:37 am

More like didn't survive contact with reality. Like those irreconcilable red lines mentioned last page, all of that is going to happen in a hard no-deal Brexit regardless.

Read the "obligatory" response to those red lines. Before you get all smug with the reality has a Remain bias slogan, do please recall that from David Cameron to Theresa May, the entire process has been managed by politicians who support Remain, with the former intentionally sabotaging the negotiation process in order to make it seem unappealing prior to the referendum vote. I should very much have preferred to see what could have been achieved 2 years ago had we had a Nigel Farage or Jacob Rees-Mogg in the cabinet, instead of Theresa May or Boris Johnson.

The same red lines would still have come up though regardless of who is managing things. I imagine that the Good Friday Deal is a third rail even to the hardest Leave politicians.

Quote

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:24:37 am

I also remember something like 80% of Scotland voting Remain.

62%

I may have exaggerated it somewhat from my memory of the map of where voted what and most of Scotland voted Remain. I knew it was a significant majority though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:01:09 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:42:00 am

Not necessarily, I'm strictly talking about the short-to-medium term. You can genuinely believe that in the long term the country can be better off, but to expect that to happen immediately or even in a matter of a few years even seems...naive? Daft? Willingly ignorant of reality? Hence why I'm calling them out on not saying "of course we'll be worse off in the short-term, it's the long term benefits that I believe in". I could respect that stance a lot more, for one.

If worse-off, how much so? If better-off, how much so? Knowing what you consider obvious reality may very well be different to mine, or smjjames', or Greatorder's, or Serrgarr's, it would be daft to to concede that your opponents can predict the future and you cannot. What happens in the short-medium-long term entirely rests upon how the British respond first, and how the British government responds second, and how the world responds third. The economic basis for the leave vote is that we shall pursue opportunities with our historical partners & developing economies with ardent vigour; it is entirely possible this would amount to nothing, or amount to a great bounty. Not being able to say for certain, the rhetoric falls the principle pursuing the opportunity, versus the rhetoric of the principle pursuing stability. There must be some overlap between a willingness to take risks, naiveness and daftness, I'm sure. To put it another way, when Cameron promised me that the UK would be plunged into darkness, I pursued this possibility. I do not think it is likely, but I considered his possibility worth the risk versus the certainty of the UK being quietly dissolved.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 11:42:00 am

So...your stance is that we allow a goods border to be brought back to Northern Ireland? Problem is that this wouldn't get through Parliament and the majority of NI parties oppose it so that's going to stoke some more political trouble.

No, my stance is do nothing to upset the status quo, put the ball in the EU's court. Force the EU to make the decision; do they put a border up between the ROI & NI, or inspect ROI goods arriving to the mainland. If they tried to set a border up between the ROI & NI, the ROI would not let them. If they set up inspections of ROI exports to the continent, it would not cost them much - not even that much more from the cost of setting up custom inspections with the UK. 80% of Irish freight passes from Europe through the UK, so the EU would only be paying to inspect the additional 20% from Ireland. We're about as obligated to pay for the EU's customs checks as Mexico is obligated to pay for the USA's border checks.

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:50:06 am

The same red lines would still have come up though regardless of who is managing things. I imagine that the Good Friday Deal is a third rail even to the hardest Leave politicians.

The key difference is the negotiations would have been conducted by someone who believed in attaining the objectives of the Leave campaign; not led by someone who believed the objectives needed to be blunted in so far as possible as damage control. Negotiations cannot be successfully conducted if the negotiator is repulsed by what they are supposed to seek.

Quote from: smjjames on December 01, 2018, 11:50:06 am

I may have exaggerated it somewhat from my memory of the map of where voted what and most of Scotland voted Remain. I knew it was a significant majority though.

Indeed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

Worse-off in the sense that current businesses that utilise the freedom of movement of goods and services within Britain with the rest of the EU will not be able to do that to the same extent, and therefore experience at best reduced profits whilst they also have to expend the time and money needed to establish the closer connections with other parts of the world and build those connections up to levels even comparable with what they currently have within the EU.

If that's even possible, since a lot of British service businesses enjoy not needing to compete with American businesses as much within the EU, since in the rest of the world America and Britain's service industries fill very similar niches, so are able to take a bigger chunk of the market share there than they would outside the EU.

So it seems to be inherent to the process that those businesses, which then fuel Britain's current economy, will slow down growth and have reduced profits whilst things adjust. And that's not something that can happen quickly, it'll be an inevitably slow and expensive process for those businesses to shift into new markets they may only have as much as a toe in at the moment.

And with Ireland, it's not just about EU mainland goods. It's also about UK -> Ireland and Ireland -> UK goods. What if their goods fall outside of a new regulation we introduce? What if they introduce a new regulation incompatible with one we introduce? How do you handle that?

That needs both sides to agree on the process and limitations before-hand. And then they need to do it without giving an unfair competitive advantage or disadvantage over other EU countries to Ireland, just as the UK needs to somehow do it without letting NI have a competitive advantage or disadvantage over the rest of the UK.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck for a reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:27:26 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

Worse-off in the sense that current businesses that utilise the freedom of movement of goods and services within Britain with the rest of the EU will not be able to do that to the same extend, and therefore experience at best reduced profits whilst they also have to expend the time and money needed to establish the closer connections with other parts of the world.

Firms that work exclusively with the EU do not represent the entirety of the British economy, the majority of our trades & services already takes place with the rest of the world with that share increasing & often with countries with whom we shamefully have no trade deals with. Regarding exclusively Europeward businesses, we can make educated guesses but it's difficult to say for certain. It remains to be seen what the EU will decide, or what inconveniences might exist even if the UK remained on the EU's visa exemption list. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-brexit-visas-no-deal-british-citizens-latest-a8631671.html) These are technical details, which I am sure most of our politicians are ignorant about, and are likely to leave to the civil service to concern themselves with. Whatever the case, what disruptions exist and to what scale can be plausibly ascertained, but not conclusively until Brexit has at last actually occurred.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

If that`s even possible, since a lot of British service businesses enjoy not needing to compete with American businesses as much within the EU, since in the rest of the world America and Britain`s service industries fill very similar niches, so are able to take a bigger chunk of the market share there than they would outside the EU.

There is always a need to compete, putting up protectionist barriers doesn't remove the need, it just delays the day of reckoning whilst forcing consumers to put up with monopolistic shitehocs like the Royal Mail, who treat their workers like shit and their customers like shit.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

So it seems to be inherent to the process that those businesses, and the people they employ (myself included), which then fuel Britain`s current economy, will slow down growth and have reduced profits.

Depending on the extent of the disruption, the dynamism of EU-focused British firms, and the extent to which the UK relies upon them, and lastly the extent to which the EU's growth itself doesn't slow from the Eurozone crisis, Brexit, Trump's procyclical fiscal spending, the Italian-EU budget risks e.t.c.
It would be stunning if the UK buckled under far better conditions than Napoleon Bonaparte's continental blockade.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

And with Ireland, it's not just about EU mainland goods. It's also about UK -> Ireland and Ireland -> UK goods. What if their goods fall outside of a new regulation we introduce? What if they introduce a new regulation incompatible with one we introduce? How do you handle that?

We're not going to stop drinking Irish whisky and eating Irish beef, I can't really think of a case where the UK & Ireland's regulatory standards would differ in a manner which would disadvantage the UK. The UK seems to be the nation applying the most deregulationary pressure upon the EU, rather unfortunately I might add.

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:06:24 pm

That needs both sides to agree on the process and limitations before-hand. And then they need to do it without giving an unfair competitive advantage or disadvantage over other EU countries to Ireland, just as the UK needs to somehow do it without letting NI have a competitive advantage or disadvantage over the rest of the UK.

I really don't see how it disadvantages the UK if the ROI is given a privileged position over the 26 other European nations, sounds like a great laff honestly. It is a pity that we don't have a PM willing to pursue this option

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:37:36 pm

It's not about "will it happen where regulations become incompatible", it's about having the process and treaties and agreements to handle it if it does or prevent it. No country in their right mind is going to sign-up to anything like an open goods border without legally signed and triple checked agreements on that sort of thing.

I work at an office that does most of it's business with UK and Europe, and is part of a cross-Europe 'group' within the larger global business. The last place I worked at did most of it's business with UK and Europe, and hired multiple native speakers from the EU to perform translations to various european languages. The place before that did most of it's business with UK and Europe, and hired multiple native speakers from the EU to perform translations to various European languages and provide international customer support. I'm a software developer, and I can tell you from the inside that there's a definite pattern in how the Technology Sector of the UK economy is currently structured.

If it was all of our businesses it'd be complete economic suicide, but as it is it's calculated at resulting in reduced GDP growth over the next decade. You need the damage mitigation in order to allow for the transition to happen whilst minimising that reduced GDP growth.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:27:26 pm

I really don't see how it disadvantages the UK if the ROI is given a privileged position over the 26 other European nations, sounds like a great laff honestly. It is a pity that we don't have a PM willing to pursue this option

Because there's no way such a deal would get through EU parliament without being Veto'd by any of the 27 European States? And a deal has to be agreed by both sides to...be a deal?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:56:48 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:37:36 pm

Except again, I work at a business that does most of it's business with UK and Europe. The last place I worked at did most of it's business with UK and Europe. The place before that did most of it's business with UK and Europe. And I work in ICT. Seeing a pattern in how the Technology Sector of the UK economy is currently structured?

I see anecdotal references to your personal experiences with businesses, but mine differs, which is about what you'd expect from a Londoner lol. Singapore, Japan, Saudi Arabia, China, India, Qatar, USA, Canada, there is a world out there beyond Europe's shores

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:37:36 pm

If it was all of our businesses it'd be complete economic suicide, but as it is it's calculated at resulting in reduced GDP growth over the next decade. You need the damage mitigation in order to allow for the transition to happen whilst minimising that reduced GDP growth.

You are suggesting?

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 12:37:36 pm

Because there's no way such a deal would get through EU parliament without being Veto'd by any of the 27 European States? And a deal has to be agreed by both sides to...be a deal?

A deal yes, but no deal does not :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 01:01:04 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:56:48 pm

You are suggesting?

That any withdrawal agreement is going to need a significant element of damage control. It's all well and good to talk about 'potential', but again I'm saying it is disingenuous to pretend that the investment for this 'potential' doesn't come at a high cost in initial investment and ignore that this investment cost and time taken to implement is going to result in slowed growth and reduced profits whilst carried out. Which is what the louder pro-Leave voices (Mogg and co) in parliament seem to be doing.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:56:48 pm

I see anecdotal references to your personal experiences with businesses, but mine differs, which is about what you'd expect from a Londoner lol.

Wait, are you the Londoner? Because I'm definitely up here in the East Midlands.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 01:06:12 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 01:01:04 pm

That any withdrawal agreement is going to need a significant element of damage control.

A transitional period would be useful; a quagmire of indefinite extensions less so

Quote from: MorleyDev on December 01, 2018, 01:01:04 pm

Wait, are you the Londoner? Because I'm definitely up here in the East Midlands.

yeah blad yeeeeeee

France en fuego btw (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46411699)

And someone taped razor blades to a children's slide (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-46411533)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 01, 2018, 01:45:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 01:06:12 pm

France en fuego btw (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46411699)

Macron has lost the Mandate of Heaven. The Yellow Vest Rebellion will show the true way to the Hon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 01, 2018, 02:02:44 pm

Macron had 24% of the votes to begin with. He was never a monolithic leader. He won the second round largely because the other candidate was a fascist, not because he was very popular himself. He might win aggain for the same reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 02:07:43 pm

Quote from: Teneb on December 01, 2018, 01:45:20 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 01:06:12 pm

France en fuego btw (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46411699)

Macron has lost the Mandate of Heaven. The Yellow Vest Rebellion will show the true way to the Hon.

Who is the Yuan Shao in all of this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 02, 2018, 09:02:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 12:27:26 pm

There is always a need to compete, putting up protectionist barriers doesn't remove the need, it just delays the day of reckoning whilst forcing consumers to put up with monopolistic shitehocs like the Royal Mail, who treat their workers like shit and their customers like shit.

Sorry, some more thoughts:

It's not just competing with other businesses, it's that other businesses have had time to become entrenched in other regions. Most of ours that are already entrenched in the EU and UK with corporate brand recognition, for them if they have to pull out of that entrenchment then there are risks they won't be able to even break into the other markets because of that entrenchment. So if they can't keep their current levels of Europe-focused business and growth post-Brexit, that's a problem for them.

There's also the issue that for middleman businesses (aka services), European businesses can work on different payment models compared to other parts of the world. For example, where I get work we get paid on commission in Europe but rest of the world often operates on upfront payments for the service with less commission. So businesses where that applies may have adjust their business models, with all the overhead of setting that new technical infrastructure up, financial infrastructure, and building the different skill sets. Again, if they need to reduce involvement in the EU this is going to cause issues that could damage our current businesses.

Also if you're a part of a large global organisation, they often already have their America and China branches. Sometimes even a Middle East branch. For those businesses, the offices they set up are valued for regional skill-set and proximity to customers. So if you have a UK office that can only reach places the UK and then a bunch in much different time zones and speaking different languages, but no longer has the same reach into our immediate neighbouring countries, you're going to have a UK office just for the UK, a Europe office for the EU in the EU (probably in Berlin), and an American office for USA/Canada, and a China office for China. Which is the risk of reduced 'foreign investment' slowing growth.

So when you put someone in charge of Leaving that isn't a fanatic who wants to Leave no matter the costs, suddenly the self-preservation instinct that the political party in charge is going to take the bulk of the blame from the people who work for those businesses now will kick in. So they have to find a leaving agreement that doesn't result in that harm. And if they're a fanatic, they put their fingers in their ears the whole time and the damage gets done because that's what fanatics do. And the rest of their party suddenly have their self-preservation instincts kick in and work to not allow that to happen.

Hence, the current inevitable clusterfuck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 02, 2018, 10:37:57 am

A bit of a nonsequitur with the above, but I have some food for thought: I think people in the UK tend to underestimate how important FoM is for  qualified professional recruitment, particularily if you aim to recruit from European countries.  FoM (+ mutual academic recognition, but noone is arguing in favor of abolishing that) means that you can go abroad with relatively little risk and paperwork, so it kind of makes you more willing to try.  Abolish FoM and you're making things harder for would be migrants, therefore making your own recruitment efforts harder.

Speaking for myself I probably wouldn't have embarked in my current adventure without FoM.  Moving abroad is complicated enough WITH FoM, let alone without. It took me three months to make up my mind and another three to sort out the paperwork.  And I was unusually lucky in how smooth my start was

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 02, 2018, 11:20:05 am

You'd have to tell the politicians that though. Then the Leave politicians would probably just respond with a variation on the Trumpian 'Well, we'll just TRAIN our own specialists!'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 02, 2018, 11:43:52 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 02, 2018, 11:20:05 am

You'd have to tell the politicians that though. Then the Leave politicians would probably just respond with a variation on the Trumpian 'Well, we'll just TRAIN our own specialists!'.

They did say that. And the British GMC replied that A: what are they going to do to fund said training and B: assuming you find the money and people for A, what are you going tk do in the decade-plus until they come out of training?
Which are not bad points to make TBH. There's going to be a lack of practitioners Europe-wide overall.

Anyways,I don't think that overall healthcare institutions  in the UK are deluded in this regard. All I've seen suggests that they are well aware that they are going to have a serious problem, and they do have some plans  in place to try to make things a bit less unstable for their EU staff... but it probably wont be enough by itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 12:06:32 pm

When you recruit for a high-end position, whatever the position is, you are looking in a very small pool of specialists, and what you want is the best of the specific field. So when you recruit from a pool of, let's say, 500 people fit for a specific position, you will always end up better than if you're fishing in a pool of five, by sheer statistics.

As for training specialists, you...actually need specialists to do that, which brings us back to point A. The more specialists you have the more specialists you can train. Isolationism is a pure catastrophy for science with no upside

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 02:07:43 pm

Macron has lost the Mandate of Heaven. The Yellow Vest Rebellion will show the true way to the Hon.

The yellow turbans forgot how it ended for them the last time they tried to pull that shit, and this time they don't have a wizard who can make blood sacrifice to summon Heaven's armies.

First time in my life I stand with the cops in a social issue. I feel for the poor schmucks who were dragged into this movement, but I'd really like the fascists out of my streets asap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2018, 12:22:23 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 12:06:32 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 02:07:43 pm

Macron has lost the Mandate of Heaven. The Yellow Vest Rebellion will show the true way to the Hon.

The yellow turbans forgot how it ended for them the last time they tried to pull that shit, and this time they don't have a wizard who can make blood sacrifice to summon Heaven's armies.

First time in my life I stand with the cops in a social issue. Hope the cops will make them realize the value of their healthcare.

Bourgeois will out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 12:29:45 pm

The gilets jaunes are neither progressive, nor poor people. They are a fascistic mob, led by far right movements capitalizing on people's anxiety. Besides, until we stop being america's bitch and bring back negociations with Iran, we'll have a high gas price and yelling at our leadership won't do shit.

Yeah it sucks to pay a premium on gas, but I'm not going to war because Jule Dupont doesn't want to pay its share in the collective effort

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2018, 01:14:28 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 12:29:45 pm

The gilets jaunes are neither progressive, nor poor people. They are a fascistic mob, led by far right movements capitalizing on people's anxiety. Besides, until we stop being america's bitch and bring back negociations with Iran, we'll have a high gas price and yelling at our leadership won't do shit.

Yeah it sucks to pay a premium on gas, but I'm not going to war because Jule Dupont doesn't want to pay its share in the collective effort

From what I understand, they are composed from both far-right and far-left group, united against the government but with differring end goals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 01:22:40 pm

Long story short, they are united over one revendication, which is the lowering of gas prices. That's why their uniform is a yellow vest mendated for european safety comission to all drivers. This is the perfect non-issue to act as an excuse to bring violence in the streets, as it is outside of the government control to fix, and is apolitical enough to gather wide chuncks of otherwise antagonistic movements. Can't be fixed, brings a lot of people ; perfect outlet for violence.

The far left and the far right has been winking at each other in the most disgusting manner for a couple months. That and the usual E&R infiltration into left wing movements to push them to attack banks which is an old tradition in french political culture, and yes indeed I have some left wing friends who support that...thing.

I'm telling you like I'm telling them, they are my friends and brothers but at some point they need to open their eyes and look at what the hell they are doing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on December 02, 2018, 02:42:51 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 01:22:40 pm

Long story short, they are united over one revendication, which is the lowering of gas prices. That's why their uniform is a yellow vest mendated for european safety comission to all drivers. This is the perfect non-issue to act as an excuse to bring violence in the streets, as it is outside of the government control to fix, and is apolitical enough to gather wide chuncks of otherwise antagonistic movements. Can't be fixed, brings a lot of people ; perfect outlet for violence.

The far left and the far right has been winking at each other in the most disgusting manner for a couple months. That and the usual E&R infiltration into left wing movements to push them to attack banks which is an old tradition in french political culture, and yes indeed I have some left wing friends who support that...thing.

I'm telling you like I'm telling them, they are my friends and brothers but at some point they need to open their eyes and look at what the hell they are doing

It's not outside the government power to fix. It's the tax that they are pissed about not that gas prices change.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2018, 02:49:53 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 01:22:40 pm

I'm telling you like I'm telling them, they are my friends and brothers but at some point they need to open their eyes and look at what the hell they are doing

Do you tell them that before or after you tell them

Quote from: scriver on December 02, 2018, 12:22:23 pm

Hope the cops will make them realize the value of their healthcare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 02:55:42 pm

This is more or less the same thing. This government has undertaken a transition toward renewable energy, which is a part of our collective effort to the survival of organized human life on planet earth, but also a move to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil, which has a bad habit on throwing us into stupid wars, and what is happening in Iran makes it obvious for anyone to see. Total is not going to go against Trump sanctions in order to get cheap oil from them, so we just lost one of our main import source and we have to rationize what we have.

Frankly life gets tough sometimes but it's always more livable when people don't take the habit of being a crying little girl when it comes to issues we face as a country.

Shit, last time under Hollande, we had the guys of Calais crying out hot tears because they didn't wanted to home some 500 migrants that were stuck there because of the British policies, and we had the same debates. What do you want to do? Wage war against the UK? Take US sanctions in the face because you're dealing with Iran despite US political embargo ?

We can't do shit on those issues. We are stuck with that energy crisis until US leadership gets out of the asyleum, or we can produce enough renewable energy not to depend from foreign import, or Europe is strong enough to ignore US international policies.

I really, really really wish Macron toughen up and sends armored men giving those yellow cretins a good facial contact with reality (under the rule of law and proportionate response) until the energy transition is carried through and the problem solve itself.

Quote from: scriver on December 02, 2018, 02:49:53 pm

Do you tell them that before or after you tell them

During the same discussion. If you swim with sharks I have no problem spear fishing you. Don't swim with sharks.

Edit : Also I edited out the part you quoted as I thought it was unecessary inflamatory. But yeah. If you try to trash the capitale city of my country and get caught by the CRS, you deserve whats coming to you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 02, 2018, 04:09:51 pm

Meanwhile in Spain, VOX, a far right party, has had 10% of the vote in the Andalusian regional elections.
That's not actually the worst part though. The worst part is that both Ciudadanos and the Popular Party have been winking at the extreme right with no ill effect in their voting base. So for practical intents and purposes half of the Andalusian population is willing to vote to ultra right wing parties.


One more reason to want a border in the river Ebro, but it's not as if we lacked reasons beforehand tbh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 02, 2018, 04:46:55 pm

It really does seem like there's been a widespread trend of far-right polarization these past few years... Might just be media bias, but there do seem to be a lot of populist parties gaining power around the world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:13:02 pm

Don't know about other countries, but that's how it works here : minority extremist parties got crushed during the elections and cannot compete loyally against the majority party, so they rile up their base into a frenzy and try to spill over. What really doesn't help is the fact that the distinction between the two extremes are actively being blurred (and this time not by the medias, but the activist themselves).

The good new is, france is in no danger of flipping into rw populism. Bad news is street workers will have a lot of clean up to do

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 05:22:26 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:13:02 pm

Don't know about other countries, but that's how it works here : minority extremist parties got crushed during the elections and cannot compete loyally against the majority party, so they rile up their base into a frenzy and try to spill over. What really doesn't help is the fact that the distinction between the two extremes are actively being blurred (and this time not by the medias, but the activist themselves).

The good new is, france is in no danger of flipping into rw populism. Bad news is street workers will have a lot of clean up to do

If the yellow jacket rebellion are fascists, why do 2/3rds of the French support it? (https://www.thelocal.fr/20181128/yellow-vests-80-percent-of-french-people-consider-macrons-measures-are-insufficient) I think anyone can plainly see what the consequence of cutting public spending and taxes on the wealthy (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-french-budget-hero-rich-cut-taxes-wealthiest-france-left-wing-a7971606.html) whilst increasing taxes on the poor (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/24/paris-fuel-tax-protest-macron-france-poverty) will be. And then John was the neolibs

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 02:55:42 pm

I really, really really wish Macron toughen up and sends armored men giving those yellow cretins a good facial contact with reality (under the rule of law and proportionate response) until the energy transition is carried through and the problem solve itself.

There is something highly amusing about sending security forces to crush regular dudes in the name of democracy. Do you really have to kill them fascists demanding fascist things like healthcare and progressive taxing fam

At the very least one must consider the argument that all stick and no carrots makes an angry French people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 02, 2018, 05:26:44 pm

Besides, if they were really all fascists the police would be protecting them, not fighting them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 02, 2018, 05:30:36 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 02, 2018, 05:26:44 pm

Besides, if they were really all fascists the police would be protecting them, not fighting them.

It's France, man. They're doing everything backwards to spite the English.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:31:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 05:22:26 pm

At the very least one must consider the argument that all stick and no carrots makes an angry French people

You're kidding right? You realize that 80% of the population, starting from the poorest and working the way up, are planned to be exempt of local taxes? I'm already in that bracket ; this government is the first that allows me to save money and to access property. This is a working man dream and I kind of don't want a band of flashy cosplayers ruin my shit

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 02, 2018, 05:26:44 pm

Besides, if they were really all fascists the police would be protecting them, not fighting them.

I don't know if you ever experienced a CRS charge, I don't think you do. If the CRS went on them like they went on us, back in the days, the price of oil would be the absolute least of their concern. According to the videos, they got away very easy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 05:32:49 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on December 02, 2018, 05:30:36 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 02, 2018, 05:26:44 pm

Besides, if they were really all fascists the police would be protecting them, not fighting them.

It's France, man. They're doing everything backwards to spite the English.

So the police would go on strike?

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:31:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 05:22:26 pm

At the very least one must consider the argument that all stick and no carrots makes an angry French people

You're kidding right?

Let them eat cake then

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:48:26 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 05:32:49 pm

Let them eat cake then

When they start to riot in the streets to get weat stored for speculation outside of private granaries they will have a point. Until then I'm all for the application of justice to every one of those sunday rebels we caught.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 06:06:30 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 05:48:26 pm

When they start to riot in the streets to get weat stored for speculation outside of private granaries they will have a point. Until then I'm all for the application of justice to every one of those sunday rebels we caught.

Fair enough, I just wanted to make French references

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 06:08:47 pm

oh

can I have a hug then

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 02, 2018, 06:15:08 pm

It is depressing how violence baguettes violence ):

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 02, 2018, 06:17:25 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 02, 2018, 06:08:47 pm

oh

can I have a hug then

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/sCshJhG.gif)

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 02, 2018, 06:15:08 pm

It is depressing how violence baguettes violence ):

Bread puns about French riots are le pain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on December 04, 2018, 10:17:58 am

C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre.

Translation - That's life, that's war, that's a potato!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 10:20:30 am

That's amoreeee

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 04, 2018, 10:32:06 am

No, that's amoraaaay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2018, 10:39:42 am

Sacre bl-euuuuuuuuu

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 04, 2018, 11:56:02 am

Omelette du fromage!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 04, 2018, 01:29:10 pm

Quote from: Kagus on December 02, 2018, 04:46:55 pm

It really does seem like there's been a widespread trend of far-right polarization these past few years... Might just be media bias

Which media outlets are far right? Only the ones owned by the rich.

So, uh...bad news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 04, 2018, 01:31:22 pm

Yeah so...I'm talking to those guys. Still looking for one who doesn't have a Front National membership card.
Death toll is 4 so far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2018, 02:00:29 pm

UK parliament gets more involved in Brexit. Previously concealed legal stuffs concerning the "Deal" also to be revealed tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 02:10:17 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 04, 2018, 02:00:29 pm

UK parliament gets more involved in Brexit. Previously concealed legal stuffs concerning the "Deal" also to be revealed tomorrow.

11th of December is the date to put in the diaries. The government has been found in contempt of parliament, which I don't remember happening ever. Spicy. On the 11th the House of Commons will vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal. God knows what'll happen, as much as I'm hoping the House of Commons will strike the deal down, 3/4 of MPs supported Remain. Leave can rely on the Tory backbencher rebels and Jezza's brigade, but that's likely not nearwhere enough. There is also however a possibility that a lot of the centrist MPs are going to strike the deal down, under the expectation that it'll trigger a general election and/or a second referendum. It's too early to say for sure, but it's gonna be spicy

*EDIT
Woah Nigel resigned from the UKIP party altogether. Not terribly relevant, but still interesting

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2018, 02:14:32 pm

It is my suspicion that the deal will be rejected, though of course hard to say.

I did enjoy the bit in the PM's debate where Northern Irish politicians marked their territory. That was, as you would say, "spicy."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 02:20:44 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 04, 2018, 02:14:32 pm

It is my suspicion that the deal will be rejected, though of course hard to say.

I did enjoy the bit in the PM's debate where Northern Irish politicians marked their territory. That was, as you would say, "spicy."

I like how the DUP were all "thanks for the £1B but you can't buy our votes." Theresa May got played like a damn fiddle lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2018, 02:24:18 pm

Hey, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The DUP have - for the first time - made me glad I voted for them. Without them, who knows what wacky ideas May would have for NI. No offence to any one from Great Britain here, but mainlanders are notorious for understanding less than even the continentals about Northern Ireland.

Ofttimes I wonder if it's self imposed ignorance. I recall one memorable Scottish fellow who, when I mentioned the main city in Northern Ireland, said "Oh! You've been to Dublin?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 04, 2018, 02:25:22 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 02:10:17 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 04, 2018, 02:00:29 pm

UK parliament gets more involved in Brexit. Previously concealed legal stuffs concerning the "Deal" also to be revealed tomorrow.

11th of December is the date to put in the diaries. The government has been found in contempt of parliament, which I don't remember happening ever. Spicy. On the 11th the House of Commons will vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal. God knows what'll happen, as much as I'm hoping the House of Commons will strike the deal down, 3/4 of MPs supported Remain. Leave can rely on the Tory backbencher rebels and Jezza's brigade, but that's likely not nearwhere enough. There is also however a possibility that a lot of the centrist MPs are going to strike the deal down, under the expectation that it'll trigger a general election and/or a second referendum. It's too early to say for sure, but it's gonna be spicy

I suspect that some Leave MPs may be inclined to vote against the bill because they view it as effectively worthless from the point of view of Leaving, while some Remain MPs might want to take it because the alternative is likely to be a no-deal Brexit which they want even less

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2018, 02:26:31 pm

"Some," he says.

*Chortles*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 04, 2018, 02:27:51 pm

I sort of misunderstood the context of what lw was saying but too lazy to change the first half now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 05:00:35 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 04, 2018, 02:24:18 pm

Hey, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The DUP have - for the first time - made me glad I voted for them. Without them, who knows what wacky ideas May would have for NI. No offence to any one from Great Britain here, but mainlanders are notorious for understanding less than even the continentals about Northern Ireland.

Ofttimes I wonder if it's self imposed ignorance. I recall one memorable Scottish fellow who, when I mentioned the main city in Northern Ireland, said "Oh! You've been to Dublin?"

It's no secret that the only government which wants NI to be a part of the ROI more than the one in Dublin is the one in Westminster

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 04, 2018, 02:25:22 pm

I suspect that some Leave MPs may be inclined to vote against the bill because they view it as effectively worthless from the point of view of Leaving, while some Remain MPs might want to take it because the alternative is likely to be a no-deal Brexit which they want even less

Yeah it's a bit of a mixed bag, since the House of Commons just gave themselves the authority to take control of Brexit negotiations in the event of Theresa May's deal failing. God knows what the MPs will do if they took charge

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 04, 2018, 06:07:02 pm

This (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579) also happened.

A non-binding opinion from a European Court of Justice advocate general that the UK can unilaterally decide to stay in the EU, should it come to that. Unlikely given the UK government have said that's not going to happen, and the EU don't want it to happen, but another option for when the deal is inevitably voted down next week.

However, Jezza's crew have also said that if the vote goes against the government, they're going to seek a vote of no confidence in the government. This would give the UK government fourteen days to win back the confidence of parliament or call a general election, assuming they don't win it (lol)

Not sure how quickly a GE can be sorted out, the last one took place six weeks after it was announced. That wouldn't be great given it puts us at the start of February and ~30 days 'til the deadline.

shit's gettin' real guys

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2018, 06:20:07 pm

Jezza shall ride his Mao-style bicycles through the maw of parliament and emerge a living god, as is written.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 06:28:09 pm

I'm not a big fan of the GE option, at least as it's timed now. If Theresa May would resign first then we could get this GE on the road

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2018, 06:20:07 pm

Jezza shall ride his Mao-style bicycles through the maw of parliament and emerge a living god, as is written.

Maocycles are banned in parliament, alongside suits of armour

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2018, 06:37:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2018, 06:28:09 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2018, 06:20:07 pm

Jezza shall ride his Mao-style bicycles through the maw of parliament and emerge a living god, as is written.

Maocycles are banned in parliament, alongside suits of armour

A common mistranslation, the prophecy states that they are "banned in parliament" because parliament will no longer exist after Jezza enters riding upon one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2018, 07:44:40 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2018, 06:37:40 pm

A common mistranslation, the prophecy states that they are "banned in parliament" because parliament will no longer exist after Jezza enters riding upon one.

The horsemen of the apocalypse would get my vote tbh

Also the Europeans are cracking down on the N'drangheta (https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/12/dutch-police-raid-dozens-of-homes-in-european-mafia-crackdown/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on December 06, 2018, 03:57:49 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 04, 2018, 06:07:02 pm

This (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579) also happened.

I'mma laugh my ass off if the UK England winds up being saved from itself by Scotland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 04:02:49 pm

So you'll laugh if... the UK.... saves the UK?

Besides, I fail how to see rejecting the democratic process as "saving" anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on December 06, 2018, 04:05:56 pm

Because Brexit was the political equivalent of drunk-dialing an ex at 3am?

Sure, it seemed like a good idea at the time (ok, it seemed like a good idea to *some* people who I assume were loaded), but now...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 04:15:35 pm

The.... entire point of democracy is that it didn't just appeal to "some" people.
Also, you forgot Wales, lol.

And I'd rephrase that. "Drunk decision mate why'd you do that idiot" doesn't make you many friends among the people who put some thought into their vote.
I get the impression the number of people that applies to would surprise you.

Also, been having fun looking at the regional brexitdown for the referendum again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Northern Ireland fascinates me. The capital actually had a Leave vote in one quarter. East Belfast (act shocked). But North Belfast was only Remain by less than one percent. West and South Belfast were overwhelmingly Remain at London-levels. That's a fairly damning divide between Protestant and Catholic areas (and economic. South in particular is where the money's at). Parts of Antrim were more than 60% leave.

Really, it's quite interesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on December 06, 2018, 04:30:10 pm

I will never not mock Leavers. Especially because it turned out pretty much as I expected -- no plan, a complete clusterfuck, and the chief proponents of the whole swindle (Cameron, Farage and BoJo) have largely jumped ship and left it to others to clean up their mess. I'm not interested in "making friends" or "building bridges", because I have no doubt that the True Believers, if given a second referendum right now, would still vote Leave despite knowing what a clusterfuck it would turn out to be.

You may have had well-intentioned, earnestly held beliefs that caused you to vote Leave (distrust/distaste of the EU is one example), just as there were a number of people who voted Trump not because they're alt-Right Nazis, but because they couldn't stomach Hillary Clinton. I get that. I still want to smack those people upside the head EVERY DAMN DAY until they admit they were fucking idiots, but I get that.

Doesn't change the fact that the outcome was foreseeable from a mile away, amidst a chorus of well-reasoned (and otherwise) voices yelling "DON'T DO IT".

It was #YOLO at a national level, which is incredibly irresponsible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 04:33:03 pm

*Shrug*
In that case, I don't feel particularly inclined towards discussing it with you. Mockery is bad for my digestion  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:18:42 pm

I feel a bit for people who bought into that hard, cold lie that Europe was smothering UK, but I have only comptempt for people who, knowing all the facts, lied to their faces. Brexit was idiotic and based on a campaign of misinformation, which was not helped by the fact the newspaper had (and still have) no idea how European standards are made and never bothered asking any commission member.

The whole process was farcical, honnest. UK gov pitted two sides against each other without bothering to inform them of the facts before asking their opinion. Not latching on to UK, they are far from being the only ones to do that.
Yelling "power to the people" while running campaigns over campaigns to purposefully disinform them is a growing trend I find absolutely distasteful.

Quote from: RedKing on December 06, 2018, 04:30:10 pm

I still want to smack those people upside the head EVERY DAMN DAY until they admit they were fucking idiots, but I get that.

I feel you.

I hope lessons are learnt real quick because this is pretty much the worse time to play alchemy with the fate of european nations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 05:26:56 pm

Quote from: RedKing on December 06, 2018, 04:30:10 pm

I will never not mock Leavers. Especially because it turned out pretty much as I expected -- no plan, a complete clusterfuck, and the chief proponents of the whole swindle (Cameron, Farage and BoJo) have largely jumped ship and left it to others to clean up their mess. I'm not interested in "making friends" or "building bridges", because I have no doubt that the True Believers, if given a second referendum right now, would still vote Leave despite knowing what a clusterfuck it would turn out to be.
You may have had well-intentioned, earnestly held beliefs that caused you to vote Leave (distrust/distaste of the EU is one example), just as there were a number of people who voted Trump not because they're alt-Right Nazis, but because they couldn't stomach Hillary Clinton. I get that. I still want to smack those people upside the head EVERY DAMN DAY until they admit they were fucking idiots, but I get that.
Doesn't change the fact that the outcome was foreseeable from a mile away, amidst a chorus of well-reasoned (and otherwise) voices yelling "DON'T DO IT".
It was #YOLO at a national level, which is incredibly irresponsible.

David Cameron led the Remain campaign. Nigel Farage held no post in parliament or government, Cameron rejected proposals to work with him. Boris Johnson was sidelined from the start, Cameron saw to the failure of his leadership bid.

How can you come in here and spout your petty ignorance as gospel whilst casting judgement on a nation from that cardboard tower you call your moral highground? Because everyone you don't like is Donald Trump? You are a true infidel, you start with the intention of making enemies when you don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Your smug self-righteousness is the reason why your country deserves 40 by 40 generations of Donald Clintons and Hillary Trumps, for they are the plague of mirrors held to the face of your hypocrisy-infested high horse.

We low information voters, kowtow to your enlightened superiority.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 05:38:58 pm

The process certainly was farcical. Farage and co. lied and fabricated in such a way as to appeal to the Common Man.

And the government sent pro-remain propaganda to every person in the UK while the BBC "impartially" supported them. Projects Fantasy and Fear were healthy and strong.

And by the time of the vote, everyone knew it - after all, both sides were happy to highlight the crap the other side was doing.

Is it so hard to believe that people - heavens forbid! - could actually do that rare thing and think?

For instance - "I don't want to be trapped in an increasingly federal government which my voice has increasingly less say in. Nor do I want immigration to continue at the same rate - exponential pop. growth is bad for me and them" is a logical argument (I'd like to think, considering it is mine).

Your response being.... "ignorant, stupid, lied to, wake up sheepman" *slap slap punch bite*

I understand the political make up of this forum leans towards a certain political pole, but this is just plain asshattery.

Edit: oh, LW beat me to the Smiting of Infidels. As per the norm.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Also, refferendums are not part of a normal democratic process in a representative democracy. Refferendums are glorified polls, and have the value people chose to give them, and especially : it was made for domestic reasons as a bargaining chip to constitute a majority.

Seriously, enough with the "power to the masses" argumentio ad lazzarum. Criticism of Europe I heard from UK at the time were absolutely nonsensical. Stuff about europe being too much uneeded regulations, stuff about controlling immigration, stuff about UK being tricked into funding poor countries, all of those were lies and people repeated them during the whole campaign.

That's not an opinion, those were factual lies and I could discuss for hours on any of them if it had still any interest for having worked into european standard commissions at the time.

I don't even blame brexiter people. Maybe they want to deregulate their market and allow mass chinese dumping into their local economy because regulations give them acnea. But they were probably more coaxed, cajoled and misinformed into it.

I hope for UK it can find the emergency brakes before it hits the wall.

Quote

Your response being.... "ignorant, stupid, lied to, wake up sheepman" *slap slap punch bite*

I understand the political make up of this forum leans towards a certain political pole, but this is just plain asshattery.

Seriously people can be smug "I told you so" at time and not wishing death to you guys.

I worked into commissions, I helped organize standards at the european level, and it is really infuriating to see everyone debate over non-issues, totally disconected from the reality you know, and being called a schill when you try to give people some facts, especially when you're just one man and you're competting against the whole might of mass medias.

Also this has nothing to do with being lw. I'm not even sure I'm lw. But seing people destroy their country because their representative have an argument is infurriating an all levels.

Edit :

In other news, I talked to some gilets jaunes. That shit is all over the place. And while I want to retract what I said, those guys are not fascists for the majority of them. You can find a ... really wierd coalition of people who have all their issues, from receiving too much parking tickets to pay too much from transport or are just manifesting state hostility which are a problem in the suburbs by a huge wealth differential which has been plaguing Paris for a long, long time. But what I take from that is the movement is completely headless.

Some people, actually a lot of people are trying to coopt it and make it talk like a puppet. From far right Brigitte "muslims are barbarians" Bardot to far left Philippe "yes we trash the city, that's what we do" Poutou, everyone wants to inject political meaning into it.

So yeah in the end that's probably just a public order problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 06:15:24 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Also, refferendums are not part of a normal democratic process in a representative democracy. Refferendums are glorified polls, and have the value people chose to give them, and especially : it was made for domestic reasons as a bargaining chip to constitute a majority.

The UK and France disagree on what constitutes a constitution, let alone what consists of the governance of a country. Jupiterian elected Monarchs do not seem to function as part of the normal democratic process. You must understand how strange it is, that the Americans with their Oligarchy and Willy Wonka King, and the French whose country is on fire even as we converse, see fit to laugh at the British for not following their advice?

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Seriously, enough with the "power to the masses" argumentio ad lazzarum. Criticism of Europe I heard from UK at the time were absolutely nonsensical. Stuff about europe being too much uneeded regulations, stuff about controlling immigration, stuff about UK being tricked into funding poor countries, all of those were lies and people repeated them during the whole campaign.

I am of the opinion the state has two functions; in no particular order, one function is to exist, so that others do not try to establish their own orders, thus allowing for stability and preservation of continuity. The second is to serve its people, for which the state ostensibly exists. This moral imperative has a functional benefit: desperate populations foment revolutions, which threatens the state's first function of existence. Not only is the motto "power to the masses," rather it should be recognised that "power is from the masses." Aligning with a wealthy minority over a fractured masses creates a schizophrenic farce of a democratic government. Now then, how can you speak of such lies? A citizen of a Schengen Area country, one of which has been pressuring the UK into giving up their border controls at Calais, whilst the EU reaffirms that single market membership requires no borders - it is rather alike RedKing's previous refusal to accept the EU's ambition to form an army, or to supplant the USA. If you cannot accept EU laws or EU politicians as true, why then would you believe in their project? In the UK, we were sold the lie that the EU was not a political project, it was a trade bloc. This was in spite of their open objective of the ever closer union, or their insistence that there were no ambitions for an EU army.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

That's not an opinion, those were factual lies and I could discuss for hours on any of them if it had still any interest for having worked into european standard commissions at the time.

A factual lie, what an unfortunate phrase.
A factual lie, no one knows what it says!
It means no discourse,
For the rest of your daaaaaaaaaays,
It's our honest-freeeeee philosophyyyy
A factual liiiiiieee!
*EDIT

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

In other news, I talked to some gilets jaunes. That shit is all over the place. And while I want to retract what I said, those guys are not fascists for the majority of them. You can find a ... really wierd coalition of people who have all their issues, from receiving too much parking tickets to pay too much from transport or are just manifesting state hostility which are a problem in the suburbs by a huge wealth differential which has been plaguing Paris for a long, long time. But what I take from that is the movement is completely headless.
Some people, actually a lot of people are trying to coopt it and make it talk like a puppet. From far right Brigitte "muslims are barbarians" Bardot to far left Philippe "yes we trash the city, that's what we do" Poutou, everyone wants to inject political meaning into it.
So yeah in the end that's probably just a public order problem.

Stay safe first. Even if the majority are regular people, crowds of regular people can act violently, especially if there are etremists in the midst. That said, I wouldn't consider it a public order issue just because there is no centralized hierarchy, as it is a political reaction, rather alike the Arab spring

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 05:38:58 pm

I understand the political make up of this forum leans towards a certain political pole, but this is just plain asshattery.
Edit: oh, LW beat me to the Smiting of Infidels. As per the norm.

swer on me nan rite

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 06:42:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 06:15:24 pm

The Americans with their Oligarchy and Willy Wonka King, and the French whose country is on fire even as we converse, see fit to laugh at the British for not following their advice?

I'll give you that ok. I'll take brexiting UK over the USA any time of the day.
I mean... to us it changes nothing. You'll still be subject to the regulation, whether you brexit or not. I'd say "you gave up your sit at the table" because that is essentially what you did but even so, since EU regulation are typically lower than national regulation it will not change a thing to you, so Europe should not destroy your industry as a result of Brexit.

The goal of those regulations were to protect us from emerging country's dumping, against which EU has the means to defend itself. But if you insist on having your regalian choice to lower your standard to the point china can invade your market... I mean sure. For what reason tho.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

A citizen of a Schengen Area country, one of which has been pressuring the UK into giving up their border controls at Calais, whilst the EU reaffirms that single market membership requires no borders

I'll stop you right there.

First of all, UK is not in Shengen. You didn't had to accept the free movement of people and you chose not to. At the time, UK made a lot of fuss and was extremely rude to other european countries to have their europe à la carte.

Diplomatic position of France under De Gaulle was to say "those guys will not cooperate, we should just dump them" but he was not listened. So EU made concessions and you had your borders. Hell, we even accepted to have british border control on OUR sovereign soil so you can control your immigration.

Do you understand how incredibly snob it sounds, after all the concession you received, to just turn around and say "oh well fuck you guys, in the end I decided I'm a princess" and leave us to clean up the mess ?

Second, the Calais problem is directly caused by UK politics. We can home migrants in France. Problem : those migrants come from the UK empire, and don't speak a word of french. They want to come to UK and are stopped by british border patrol. You add some frantic gun tooting easily startled calaisians and here you go. The problem was effectively solved when we decided to home them around the country, but it is yet another british princess move we had to clean up. And it's starting to be a bit heavy on the shoulders Im not gonna lie.

Quote

their insistence that there were no ambitions for an EU army.

This is not EU policy, but I wish it was. If it was up to me, I'd just make Europe with germany, build a two state army and have the rest of the 27 come and ask for their loaf of bread, rather than insisting on pleasing everyone. Europe insists on being the nice guy and that's why it's not respected.

Quote

Stay safe first. Even if the majority are regular people, crowds of regular people can act violently, especially if there are etremists in the midst. That said, I wouldn't consider it a public order issue just because there is no centralized hierarchy, as it is a political reaction, rather alike the Arab spring

We call this a Jacquerie. It's not the first time I've been in a revolt like that. Don't worry, I'm safe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 07:02:21 pm

For laughs, I read the previous to my father.

He swore, surprising me (he never swears).

"You'd think the French would understand not wanting the German jackboot on their land."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:06:09 pm

After that line, I will allow myself to disreguard british mounting on their high horses on the next european smirking remark on brexit.

You guys will laugh war off because you havn't had a invasion on your soil since modern warfare was a thing. We're told what war is in school, maybe that's why we value cooperation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 07:11:08 pm

Cathar, I respect you. I've seen you go out of your way to help struggling artists.

But you're now being deeply insulting on many levels, going so far as to claim that Europe should kneel before Germany and France and eat the scraps which you deign to throw.

My father's comment shows a certain amount of snark. But you must admit that in this case it's warranted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 06, 2018, 07:13:22 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 05:38:58 pm

Nor do I want immigration to continue at the same rate - exponential pop. growth is bad for me and them" is a logical argument (I'd like to think, considering it is mine).

Yet I'm sure you want healthcare, and shorter waitimg lists, and all those vacant posts on the NHS covered. Or elsewhere in the economy for that matter.

well guess what, if you create a "hostile environment" it's not going to f*ing happen. I don't know what traumatic experience with Polish plumbers you had, but EU FoM works because it makes things easy and simple. If you make things more difficult things become far less attractive and you're going to struggle with both blue collar AND white collar workers. But particularily the latter. I'm fairly sure the whole thing was designed mostly to allow international corporations to be able to shuffle qualified personnel back and forth if necessary.

Right now as things stand I'd not say I'd never work in the UK, but in the current climate the option is certainly lagging behind others -  including learning French or German, or simply cutting my losses going back home if the going got tough abroad.  I don't think I'm alone in that feeling if the statistics are anything to go by.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 07:02:21 pm

"You'd think the French would understand not wanting the German jackboot on their land."

Just so that you're aware if you start to make unpleasant political comments someone is going to say someone is going to answer something unpleasant to you sooner or later. The eventual consequence will be flamewars, threas locks, and possibly bans.

I believe in self determination of threads so all of you be my guest and take part in what might come...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:17:03 pm

No it's not warranted. I respect you a whole lot too and I have no ill will toward you, and I'm grown up enough to distance myself from the debate because it's not about me.

I don't see how I insulted you, except by saying the brexit vote was misinformed and led to a massive mess, which is...well just factually correct. If my facts aren't straight I'm not above rectifying them, but I'm fairly certain of what I say for having been part of the system.

Bringing wars into which I lost part of my extended family by entire siblinghoods into the mix is just plain disrespectful. I'm a grown up, I don't take that personally, but if you are going to go this route please refrain from being offended in the future.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 07:28:07 pm

Cathar, my granny's uncles died at the Somme. One couldn't be positively identified because he was blown to pieces. I warrant you've never heard of the 36th Ulster Division (filled with people from Northern Ireland) but they bled and died to protect your land in the First World War - protect it against an expansionist Germany dissimilar from the current one mainly in method.

So my dad lost his great uncles in that conflict. I suppose he's wondering how that bought no sense of sympathy from you.

We do not laugh off war. We stand in remembrance and solemnly remember the dead.
Those who fought for a Europe free to do as it willed. That includes the right to make what others think are stupid decisions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 07:29:08 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 06:42:48 pm

I'll give you that ok. I'll take brexiting UK over the USA any time of the day.

So many wasted opportunities!

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 06:42:48 pm

I mean... to us it changes nothing. You'll still be subject to the regulation, whether you brexit or not. I'd say "you gave up your sit at the table" because that is essentially what you did but even so, since EU regulation are typically lower than national regulation it will not change a thing to you, so Europe should not destroy your industry as a result of Brexit.

I'm pleased by the outcome if it doesn't disrupt France, my intention is not to order the French in what to do (also fairly certain we can't in the EU anyways lol). Our seat on the table has usually been a lonely one (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty), so I think it is also better for the EU if there isn't the UK always blossoming in waves of euroscepticism from within. If we end up remaining in the single market and customs union, then it seems the decades ahead will be fraught with Brexit II: The sequel. If on the other hand we successfully leave at the first shot, I do not see the issue of UK exports to Europe conforming to European regulations, any more than I ought to take issue with UK exports to the USA conforming to American regulations. The death of the British lobbying firms in Brussels will be of mutual benefit to European and British regulations.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 06:42:48 pm

The goal of those regulations were to protect us from emerging country's dumping, against which EU has the means to defend itself. But if you insist on having your regalian choice to lower your standard to the point china can invade your market... I mean sure. For what reason tho.

It's haven't observed it working. Europe's industries are still being slaughtered - or, are incorporating the products of emerging countries into their increasingly advanced supply chains, evolving - like Chinese bikes assembled in Germany. Globalisation is a difficult beast to slay, I haven't seen the EU have any success in that endeavour yet.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

First of all, UK is not in Shengen.

I was referring to France

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

At the time, UK made a lot of fuss and was extremely rude to other european countries to have their europe à la carte.

This would be the source of the confusion - the UK does not want Europe, the UK wants Europe's money. It should be fairly apparent simply by observing that all of Cameron's protests to the EU are about EU attempts to regulate British financial services, and very little else.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Diplomatic position of France under De Gaulle was to say "those guys will not cooperate, we should just dump them" but he was not listened. So EU made concessions and you had your borders. Hell, we even accepted to have british border control on OUR sovereign soil so you can control your immigration.

How is the EU the one making concessions? The EU has never once returned sovereignty; it demands instead that you either surrender in piecemeal, or in totality, but never offers concessions. If I order you to give me 5 mars bars, and I lower my demands to 3 mars bars, it would be outrageous to say I offered any concession at all ;p

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Do you understand how incredibly snob it sounds, after all the concession you received, to just turn around and say "oh well fuck you guys, in the end I decided I'm a princess" and leave us to clean up the mess?

Perhaps the EU needs to understand when no means no. Princess says no

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

Second, the Calais problem is directly caused by UK politics. We can home migrants in France. Problem : those migrants come from the UK empire, and don't speak a word of french. They want to come to UK and are stopped by british border patrol. You add some frantic gun tooting easily startled calaisians and here you go. The problem was effectively solved when we decided to home them around the country, but it is yet another british princess move we had to clean up. And it's starting to be a bit heavy on the shoulders Im not gonna lie.

If you don't want Commonwealth migrants in France, why don't you use your border controls? Did the British princess take away those? No, the EU did. Seems silly to blame the UK when France is the one who not only left the door open, but set the doors on fire.

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

This is not EU policy, but I wish it was. If it was up to me, I'd just make Europe with germany, build a two state army and have the rest of the 27 come and ask for their loaf of bread, rather than insisting on pleasing everyone. Europe insists on being the nice guy and that's why it's not respected.

There is a Voltaire joke to be made about how the EU is not European, nice or respected

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 05:46:40 pm

We call this a Jacquerie. It's not the first time I've been in a revolt like that. Don't worry, I'm safe.

I still remember the London riots were particularly fascinating. You had people stealing water, bricks and rice, flexing it on social media so the police could arrest them lmao. Still caution never hurts, but carelessness kills. Even if the rioters do nothing getting caught up in police actions can be a pain, I still remember one instance in London with a protest that turned violent, loads of innocent bystanders who gawked at the conflict with their smartphones instead of going home got stuck in the police kettle afterwards

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:06:09 pm

After that line, I will allow myself to disreguard british mounting on their high horses on the next european smirking remark on brexit.
You guys will laugh war off because you havn't had a invasion on your soil since modern warfare was a thing. We're told what war is in school, maybe that's why we value cooperation.

My grandparents lived under Japanese occupations or flew in the Battle of Britain, so I will have to disagree. Cooperation and centralization are also two distinct concepts, just as there is a clear distinction between European nations cooperating and a singular European state. No one in the UK laughs war off; God knows, hundreds of thousands were lost to free France. I know you mean no antagonism, just making it clear the UK holds no dim view of French sacrifice

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 07:28:07 pm

Cathar, my granny's uncles died at the Somme. One couldn't be positively identified because he was blown to pieces. I warrant you've never heard of the 36th Ulster Division (filled with people from Northern Ireland) but they bled and died to protect your land in the First World War - protect it against an expansionist Germany dissimilar from the current one mainly in method.
So my dad lost his great uncles in that conflict. I suppose he's wondering how that bought no sense of sympathy from you.
We do not laugh off war. We stand in remembrance and solemnly remember the dead.

Hear hear.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 07:28:07 pm

Those who fought for a Europe free to do as it willed. That includes the right to make what others think are stupid decisions.

You made the first mistake of British-European relations. DON'T MENTION THE WAR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:34:31 pm

Alright I see the problem clearly now

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 07:29:08 pm

the UK wants Europe's money.

If I order you to give me 5 mars bars, and I lower my demands to 3 mars bars, it would be outrageous to say I offered any concession at all ;p

Princess says no

See that is the problem. UK wants Europe's money and won't pay the 5 mars bars. EU says "okay, you can have my money for only 3 mars bars". UK says OK, takes the money and won't pay the godamn mars bars.

Pay your mars bars UK

Quote

My grandparents lived under Japanese occupations or flew in the Battle of Britain, so I will have to disagree. Cooperation and centralization are also two distinct concepts, just as there is a clear distinction between European nations cooperating and a singular European state. No one in the UK laughs war off; God knows, hundreds of thousands were lost to free France. I know you mean no antagonism, just making it clear the UK holds no dim view of French sacrifice

Thanks for understanding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 07:37:05 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:34:31 pm

See that is the problem. UK wants Europe's money and won't pay the 5 mars bars. EU says "okay, you can have my money for only 3 mars bars". UK says OK, takes the money and won't pay the godamn mars bars.

Pay your mars bars UK

I need all the damn mars bars, I got a rat colony to feed

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:34:31 pm

Thanks for understanding.

No worries, whatever our disagreements or backgrounds we are all from bay12

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:40:32 pm

I approach all of those debates with the understanding that we don't really matter. It's not like you will change UK's fate, and I won't change France's, so in the end we better be friends because no matter our disagreements, things will follow their course in the end.

We're just monkeys yelling on a rock drifting through space, shit doesn't really matter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:06:02 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:40:32 pm

I approach all of those debates with the understanding that we don't really matter. It's not like you will change UK's fate, and I won't change France's, so in the end we better be friends because no matter our disagreements, things will follow their course in the end.

I usually use the lower board debates as means, not an ends. Like an angle grinder with which to sharpen thoughts, notions & arguments, stripping them of their errors and flaws. I also hold everything to matter, especially since history is full of thousand year reigns of sectarian warfare starting off from irrelevant bullshit no one cared about - until it was too late. Or in the poem:

For want of a nail the horseshoe was lost.
For want of a horseshoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the war was lost.
For want of a victory the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

The actions of our nations are the aggregate of our own selves, we are no less relevant to the fate of our nations than cells would be to our own bodies - just as the great body of a human can be undone by a mote as tiny as a virus, or preserved by the concert of so many cells. That's before factoring in the myriad practical ways each of us affect the state by acting in our own right - and I'm not talking politics, I'm talking about personal life actions, like receiving education, founding families, what we teach and pass down. Most of all, many of us have the opportunities to impact things directly, and often with outsized influence comparative to the average individual of our countries. Right now the British government for example balances on the razor's edge of a few Northern Ireland MPs, all of this would not be possible if the individuals of the four main electorates had not willed the situation thus. Others may be even more directly capable of impacting the course of the world, through holding posts of influence in the private, public or military spheres of life - I don't know much about you, but it sounds like your work with the commission for example has allowed you to improve France's future firsthand, while anyone who knows someone important likewise affects the world thus. Most of all; behind every Alexander was a Philip, behind every Philip was an Amyntas. The most influential are not created from nothing!

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:40:32 pm

We're just monkeys yelling on a rock drifting through space, shit doesn't really matter

The uniqueness of this instant in time and this place in space holding a cooperative set of self-aware matter is a facet of existence I find too interesting to disregard

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 08:11:07 pm

A small and mostly irrelevant point, but my education in classics compels me:
I've often thought Philip's actions were the truly impressive ones. He united Greece (minus Sparta, but they were so boeotian'd out that they were practically useless). He then forged them into a javelin to strike into the heart of Persia and.... died.
His son picked up the javelin his father forged, and threw it for him. Threw it well, threw it with accuracy - but no more than his father could have done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:17:47 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 08:11:07 pm

A small and mostly irrelevant point, but my education in classics compels me:
I've often thought Philip's actions were the truly impressive ones. He united Greece (minus Sparta, but they were so boeotian'd out that they were practically useless). He then forged them into a javelin to strike into the heart of Persia and.... died.
His son picked up the javelin his father forged, and threw it for him. Threw it well, threw it with accuracy - but no more than his father could have done.

Alexander also couldn't have done it without Philip's soldiers, officers and tutelage from Aristotle

In a completely related note, anyone here have good ideas for wedding gifts between a Russian and a Briton? I am trying my best to find something which is historical, affordable enough and isn't covered in Ivan the Terrible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 08:20:12 pm

Hey, you could even argue he couldn't have done it without Homer. It's said he read a portion each day on his campaigns.

As for the gift, everything I can think of involves tasteless cultural and historical references. Sorry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 06, 2018, 08:20:54 pm

Not a bottle of perfume.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 08:27:00 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:06:02 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 07:40:32 pm

I approach all of those debates with the understanding that we don't really matter. It's not like you will change UK's fate, and I won't change France's, so in the end we better be friends because no matter our disagreements, things will follow their course in the end.

I usually use the lower board debates as means, not an ends. Like an angle grinder with which to sharpen thoughts, notions & arguments, stripping them of their errors and flaws. I also hold everything to matter, especially since history is full of thousand year reigns of sectarian warfare starting off from irrelevant bullshit no one cared about - until it was too late. Or in the poem:

For want of a nail the horseshoe was lost.
For want of a horseshoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the war was lost.
For want of a victory the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

I have another poem :

Let go
Of the ego
My bro

-Cathar 07.12.18

I let you meditate on the deepness of that influential poet of the 21th century

I mean it is an illness of our times, to have us believe that we are special in some way and that we matter. We think we have the world figured out, and suddently you see the daughter of a litteral traitror rise in your country and have people around you starting to argue that somewhat, that chick who lives in a castle represents the people and you realize how meaningless your opinion is.

The good new is, you can act and get involved in the standardization process. If you are an expert in a field, or if you are an informed consumer and are representing a consumer group, you can get in relation with your national standardization institution and have your voice heard.

This is where decisions are made. They are not made, even in europe, by oligarchal elites, they are made by people who get involved. You can contact a representative consumer group and do just that : they are often lacking people to send to the meetings. It's a lot of work and you'll have to sit next to specialist who know their shit to the fingertips, but that's how decisions are made, with or without europe.

In France it's the AFNOR in which I had one of the most exciting times in my life.

Don't let the pressure of agitated people in the streets court-circuit a fair decision making process, that's how you end up with lead in kid toys. And since you won't have EU standards to force your industry to minimal standards, they *will* want to lower them as much as they can to reduce the cost of production. Don't let this happen and get your consumer groups involved.

I mean, for real. It doesn't matter to us, UK will be forced to comply to our standards if they want to sell to us. But they will not have to comply to anything but their own rules if they want to sell to british people. If I were a brit, that's the abyss what I would look into until it stares back

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:42:27 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 08:20:12 pm

Hey, you could even argue he couldn't have done it without Homer. It's said he read a portion each day on his campaigns.

Or Xenophon, whose campaign through Persia was used by Alexander as a guidebook and a source of inspiration. Xenophon also being a student of Socrates, who taught Plato, who taught Aristotle, who taught Alexander links them altogether too. But Xenophon wouldn't have done it without Cyrus, nor Cyrus were it for his brother Ataxerxes, and both Cyrus and Ataxerxes had imperial ambitions owing to them having to live up to the legacies of the legendary Cyrus the Great and Xerxes aaaaand it just goes on. Tiny people make for terrifying ripples through history. Like the time when Diogenes IRL shitposted at Alexander

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 08:20:12 pm

As for the gift, everything I can think of involves tasteless cultural and historical references. Sorry.

I have thus far ruled out Saint Olga of Kiev related icons and anything to do with the English Muscovy Company. And booze. Alas, the perils of being poor

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 08:27:00 pm

I have another poem :
Let go
Of the ego
My bro
-Cathar 07.12.18

It is good; Life goes on.
I eat food. I sing song.
Melancholy wine, with you I dine.
To appreciate the time,
Because the present is a present,
The only time that's mine!

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 08:27:00 pm

I mean it is an illness of our times, to have us believe that we are special in some way and that we matter. We think we have the world figured out, and suddently you see the daughter of a litteral traitror rise in your country and have people around you starting to argue that somewhat, that chick who lives in a castle represents the people and you realize how meaningless your opinion is.

I do not believe I am special, nor that the sense of self is little more than an illusion. I know I know little, what I thought was so is not so, what is now is not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5iHzag120) So when I speak of such notions as mattering, I speak so out of appreciation for even the merest speck of dirt in this cosmos being capable of understanding and appreciating whatever existence is. I do not know why existence is, but we are here, so we ought to be grateful for the flicker of time that we've noticed it

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 08:27:00 pm

The good new is, you can act and get involved in the standardization process. If you are an expert in a field, or if you are an informed consumer and are representing a consumer group, you can get in relation with your national standardization institution and have your voice heard.
This is where decisions are made. They are not made, even in europe, by oligarchal elites, they are made by people who get involved. You can contact a representative consumer group and do just that : they are often lacking people to send to the meetings. It's a lot of work and you'll have to sit next to specialist who know their shit to the fingertips, but that's how decisions are made, with or without europe.
In France it's the AFNOR in which I had one of the most exciting times in my life.

Could you elaborate more? I know very little about this and it sounds pretty interesting

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 08:27:00 pm

Don't let the pressure of agitated people in the streets court-circuit a fair decision making process, that's how you end up with lead in kid toys. And since you won't have EU standards to force your industry to minimal standards, they *will* want to lower them as much as they can to reduce the cost of production. Don't let this happen and get your consumer groups involved.

I look forward to the day when I can spend every ounce of energy complaining about the UK again ;D

*EDIT
The Eiffel Tower in Paris is to close on Saturday amid fears of further street violence from "yellow vest" anti-government protests.
Across France, 89,000 police officers will be on duty and armoured vehicles will be deployed in the capital, Prime Minister Edouard Philippe announced. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46476037)
Protests over, everyone go home.

Jezza vs May debate canceled, to be replaced by a debate between 3 Remainers and 1 Leaver, stealing the BBC's format (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46476324). Disappointing tbh, just get the two on twitch and livestream the debate, why go through all the TV show politics

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 09:01:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:42:27 pm

It is good; Life goes on.
I eat food. I sing song.
Melancholy wine, with you I dine.
To appreciate the time,
Because the present is a present,
The only time that's mine!

Mcdonald advertizes on TV
I'm driven by unsatiable hunger
When that chick look at her hamburger
And seems to find it really funny

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:42:27 pm

Could you elaborate more? I know very little about this and it sounds pretty interesting

To cut a long story short :

Every country has its own standardization system. Typically what it does is, it reunites around the same table the industrials of a given industry in what we call a "commission" where they set the rules for the national industry.

For exemple, I had a commission on whiteware in which it was decided that, barren some exceptions, glass windows in shower items would have to be made of tremped glass, so as when they break, they don't harm or kill the user. People invited are typically paid by the industry and representative of the state, but they can be representative of consumer groups if the consumer groups make the demand and send someone, and this point is important.

Now, on the european level, what is typically done is, we take the most economically viable standard in the litterature written on a national level, then we ask different countries for their objections/anotations/commentary etc. It is a long process. But when it is done, bam, you have an european standard, and all european countries have to abide by it. By this process we can infer that the norm is within the production capacity of member states.

So let's say a chinese industrial want to sell showers with glass windows in europe, they have to undertake the extra cost of tremping their glass windows to make them safe, or forget about the european market. This notably prevents dumping, and even if they try to dump, they will not kill consumers by selling cheap items that break into large shards after three months. This are the "regulations" you see the Brexit movie complain about.

Now, UK leaves the EU. What it means is, within UK, the industrial are free of the minimal EU standards. So let's say the whiteware industrt reunites itself and says "okay, fuck it, let's decide we sell dangerous trash to british citizens", now they can. They can change the standards at their leisure. Now they have free hands and you can only rely on your consumer groups to act as a counter power.

I know they haven't told you that during the campaign I feel a bit of despair about it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 09:11:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 08:42:27 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 08:20:12 pm

Hey, you could even argue he couldn't have done it without Homer. It's said he read a portion each day on his campaigns.

Or Xenophon, whose campaign through Persia was used by Alexander as a guidebook and a source of inspiration. Xenophon also being a student of Socrates, who taught Plato, who taught Aristotle, who taught Alexander links them altogether too. But Xenophon wouldn't have done it without Cyrus, nor Cyrus were it for his brother Ataxerxes, and both Cyrus and Ataxerxes had imperial ambitions owing to them having to live up to the legacies of the legendary Cyrus the Great and Xerxes aaaaand it just goes on. Tiny people make for terrifying ripples through history. Like the time when Diogenes IRL shitposted at Alexander

I prefer Demosthenes' Phillipics. His 'On the Crown' was hilariously good.
Also, didn't know that the Hellenica was a model for Alexander, though makes sense. Also, technically Xenophon cooooould have done it without Cyrus. Perhaps they wouldn't have penetrated so far into the interior, nor have to trek all the way out, but when they reached Greece they didn't exactly go home anyway. They mercenaried away in Persia again for gold. So Cyrus was a good reason, but other reasons could have cropped up.... had they the coin.

 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 09:21:40 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 09:01:50 pm

Mcdonald advertizes on TV
I'm driven by unsatiable hunger
When that chick look at her hamburger
And seems to find it really funny

Man can't understand,
Why in so many adverts,
The salad makes jokes

Quote from: Cathar on December 06, 2018, 09:01:50 pm

Now, UK leaves the EU. What it means is, within UK, the industrial are free of the minimal EU standards. So let's say the whiteware industrt reunites itself and says "okay, fuck it, let's decide we sell dangerous trash to british citizens", now they can. They can change the standards at their leisure. Now they have free hands and you can only rely on your consumer groups to act as a counter power.
I know they haven't told you that during the campaign I feel a bit of despair about it

If the BSI can formulate European standardisation, it stands to reason they can be repurposed to formulate it on the national level instead of the continental (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/standardisation/standardisation). Otherwise thanks for the elaboration, it was highly informative

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 09:11:28 pm

I prefer Demosthenes' Phillipics. His 'On the Crown' was hilariously good.
Also, didn't know that the Hellenica was a model for Alexander, though makes sense. Also, technically Xenophon cooooould have done it without Cyrus. Perhaps they wouldn't have penetrated so far into the interior, nor have to trek all the way out, but when they reached Greece they didn't exactly go home anyway. They mercenaried away in Persia again for gold. So Cyrus was a good reason, but other reasons could have cropped up.... had they the coin.

Xenophon and the other Greeks had no reason to invade Persia without Cyrus. How he does it is bloody hilarious too; he ropes in his old m8 Clearchus, a Spartan general who was exiled from Sparta for being too war-hungry, which really tells you all you need to know about him. Then he gives a great big call for recruits, so Greeks everywhere volunteer to join the expeditionary force in what they believe is just Cyrus putting down a small rebellion. Xenophon goes to join the expedition just to meet Cyrus, he doesn't intend to volunteer to join the armed ranks of Greek adventurers. However half way into Asia Minor, Cyrus drops the bomb shell on them and tells the 10,000 Greeks assembled that they're actually going to war with Ataxerxes on his home turf. A bunch of the host breaks off believing Cyrus to be on a suicide mission, but they get hopelessly lost without Cyrus's guides to lead them back to Greece, and eventually rejoin the host after Cyrus gives a great big speech about making them all satraps once they win, and how victory was likely. Shenanigens ensue; Xenophon goes from being a tourist to the overall commander of the Greek forces. Xenophon was also pretty damn salty that they made it so close to Greece before they all started going AWOL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 09:29:48 pm

"Shenanigans"

I like your word for "total and utter defeat resulting in Cyrus' death"

The Anabasis is fun too. So much eating of random things (which goes as well as one might expect) and robbing the natives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2018, 09:36:04 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 09:29:48 pm

"Shenanigans"

I like your word for "total and utter defeat resulting in Cyrus' death"

A bit of that + "total decapitation of the entire Greek leadership in one night"

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 06, 2018, 09:29:48 pm

The Anabasis is fun too. So much eating of random things (which goes as well as one might expect) and robbing the natives.

That one bit always breaks my heart. When Cyrus gets shenanigensed and Ataxerxes forces the Greeks to march through the towns which threw in their lot with Cyrus... Meaning the army had to choose between starving to death, or raiding the towns that supported them. It's politically ingenious, but so cruel. You can just imagine the moment where the town folk were happy to see the Greeks returning, and then they weren't

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2018, 09:47:12 pm

We no longer need to imagine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPbhCWtZmM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 07:12:17 am

I still don’t get how anyone involved in brexit imagines that the Ireland problem is going to be solved with their hard border to the EU requirement combined with their no border to NI requirement with NI’s no border to Ireland requirement. Like whenever the issue comes up people immediately change the topic or say “something will be worked out” even though nobody seems willing to back down on any of those 3 requirements

If we put a border crossing into NI and keep the NI/Ireland border open, then the DUP will abandon the tories, leaving a minority government that will have trouble doing much, and probbably reignite NI independence movements.

If we keep the NI -> mainland Uk open and close the Irish border, apparently that will lead to terrorism for Irish reasons that I do not fully understand.

And if we keep both borders open, then we don’t have a hard border with the EU which is one of the central reasons for many brexit folks in the first place.

I just don’t see how this can get solved, honestly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2018, 07:54:05 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 07:12:17 am

And if we keep both borders open, then we don’t have a hard border with the EU which is one of the central reasons for many brexit folks in the first place.

Wrong. You are forgetting the part where there already is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, a hard border between Ireland and Schengen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 08:39:16 am

Quote from: scriver on December 07, 2018, 07:54:05 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 07:12:17 am

And if we keep both borders open, then we don’t have a hard border with the EU which is one of the central reasons for many brexit folks in the first place.

Wrong. You are forgetting the part where there already is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, a hard border between Ireland and Schengen.

Wasn’t aware of that, but most of what I’ve seen in terms of the NI border  was customs related rather than immigration related. Is it not in the customs union?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2018, 08:42:54 am

True. I might have mixed them up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2018, 08:50:43 am

Quote from: scriver on December 07, 2018, 07:54:05 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 07:12:17 am

And if we keep both borders open, then we don’t have a hard border with the EU which is one of the central reasons for many brexit folks in the first place.

Wrong. You are forgetting the part where there already is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, a hard border between Ireland and Schengen.

It wouldn't take much political finagling to completely fuck up the current status quo. Worst case scenario for the Leave faction would be if during one of May's intermediary Brexit periods, the UK is "temporarily" entered into the Schengen Area. The ROI have thus far stayed out of the Schengen Area because joining it without the UK would force the UK to impose a hard border between NI & ROI, which has a high risk of breaking the peace, and at the very least pissing everyone off. If the ROI joined the Schengen Area after the UK "temporarily" joined, this would put the UK in a difficult spot, and one our government would use to justify canceling Brexit - though they wouldn't describe as such, insisting we'd left the EU despite being further integrated into the EU. Temporary would become permanent, everyone would be salty with no crispiness, which is a recipe demanding spice.

This is the current arrangement:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 17, 2018, 05:30:55 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/JsPL4do.png)

Green = Common Travel Area
Blue = Schengen Area
Grey = Dudes who use borders when their governments exist

Green area mandems have minimal border checks with each other, but cooperate to maintain border checks with blue.
Blue area mandems have minimal border checks with each other, but cooperate to maintain border checks with green and grey.
Also green area dudes can permanently live in each other's countries, serve in each other's armed forces, governments, bureaucracies, private sectors and all that without needing any visa, residency or naturalisation.
Blue area dudes can permanently live in each other's countries, work in each other's private sectors without visa/residency/naturalisation, though public sector eligibility requirements still vary from nation to nation on a bilateral basis.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 08:39:16 am

Wasn’t aware of that, but most of what I’ve seen in terms of the NI border  was customs related rather than immigration related. Is it not in the customs union?

UK & ROI are both in the customs union, while the UK government still to this day hasn't made it clear whether it will leave or remain in the customs union. Everyone said we'd leave it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fDn0MvcHQ4), The UK government promised to leave it, (https://news.sky.com/story/tories-toast-if-they-dont-deliver-on-brexit-theresa-may-warned-11425809) insists it will leave it (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43860453), and yet spend every day concocting plans to lock us in. The communist party of Britain, which I did not realise still existed, called it amusingly when they said the Chequers plan was the single market by another name. (https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/chuck-chequers-single-market-another-name)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2018, 11:12:21 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2018, 07:12:17 am

I still don’t get how anyone involved in brexit imagines that the Ireland problem is going to be solved with their hard border to the EU requirement combined with their no border to NI requirement with NI’s no border to Ireland requirement. Like whenever the issue comes up people immediately change the topic or say “something will be worked out” even though nobody seems willing to back down on any of those 3 requirements

If we put a border crossing into NI and keep the NI/Ireland border open, then the DUP will abandon the tories, leaving a minority government that will have trouble doing much, and probbably reignite NI independence movements.

If we keep the NI -> mainland Uk open and close the Irish border, apparently that will lead to terrorism for Irish reasons that I do not fully understand.

And if we keep both borders open, then we don’t have a hard border with the EU which is one of the central reasons for many brexit folks in the first place.

I just don’t see how this can get solved, honestly

The thing is that the Good Friday Agreement was made in the environment of the EU (possibly with the expectation of staying in the EU forever, I wouldn't know) with the freedom of movement and all that. Without that environment or perhaps, base, the whole deal is on shaky ground so to speak, it might stay up, it might partially slump, or it might collapse completely.

Any change in the base foundation or evironment is going to affect the GFD no matter what, there's just no way around it. Which is why it's such a third rail in British politics and they're trying as hard as possible to not change anything despite Brexit meaning there is going to be a change regardless.

Whether it'd be just as much of a third rail to a negotiator who is actually a Leaver as it has been for Theresa May, I wouldn't know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 11:20:50 am

It was "made in the environment of the EU" only in that both the UK and Republic of Ireland were in Europe at the time. But it is an agreement, voted on both in N.I. and the Republic of Ireland, which is between the two nations, and does not involve the EU.
The "whole base" was not Europe and free movement, it was disarmament and a cessation to the constant brutal slaughter that was its base. So long as that base is upheld, I sincerely doubt whether people will let the peace process "slump," as you put it. The wounds of the Troubles are still fresh - no one spoils for a second fight, even the IRA vipers in Sinn Fein.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2018, 11:24:12 am

Well, they're certainly acting like any change resulting from Brexit is going to mean death for the agreement.... At least that's how I'm interpreting it, and possibly how dorsidwarf is interpreting it as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 11:52:02 am

Yea, I'm sure some people would like to push that.

In reality, I don't recall the Good Friday Agreement really mentioning a border at all. There are parliamentary links to be retained, the promise of a potential United Ireland provided there's a majority for it in both RoI and NI.

A border might make some commitments such as cross-border relations more difficult, but it doesn't damage any of the central pillars of the agreement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2018, 12:04:16 pm

Yeah, I read the GFD a while back and there was barely anything economic related at all, maybe a paragraph at most, just a few sentences. And yet the UK, ROI, and NI (and possibly the EU, if they are even factoring it) are acting like it'll damage the agreement or they're using the agreement as a pretext to stonewalling what they're stonewalling about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 12:07:25 pm

"Pretext" is a good word for it, yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 07, 2018, 12:27:19 pm

Took a look back at it through wikipedia and while there is a section on economics, it mostly boils down to 'respect Irish language and culture, pls no oppress' and the only time a border was mentioned outside of cross-border cooperation is a reference to regional development strategy.

There is no mention of anything relating to not having a border between the UK and NI, all other border references are about establishing cross-border cooperation. So, really, it appears to have all the bases covered as far as having a border between NI and UK.

I can get the UK treating a border between the UK and NI as giving up a chunk of territory (I'd fight tooth and nail for any territory I have left if I once had an empire too, though there was kind of a collective shrug at Scotland. I suppose it's the difference between choosing to leave vs being forced) to the EU and fighting against that, but is that mostly a Remainer sentiment or do Leavers care similarily?

They COULD ask the British people whether they'd be okay with it, but given how much of a third rail it is.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2018, 12:30:30 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 07, 2018, 11:52:02 am

Yea, I'm sure some people would like to push that.

In reality, I don't recall the Good Friday Agreement really mentioning a border at all. There are parliamentary links to be retained, the promise of a potential United Ireland provided there's a majority for it in both RoI and NI.

A border might make some commitments such as cross-border relations more difficult, but it doesn't damage any of the central pillars of the agreement.

Lord Bew in the HOL is live right now giving a speech about how the backstop violates all the core principles of the Good Friday agreement. Tl;dr of his criticism is that the Good Friday agreement was proposed from the bottom up, whilst the backstop is imposed from the top down. I'd post more but I must go eat nandos now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 12:35:27 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 07, 2018, 12:27:19 pm

They COULD ask the British people whether they'd be okay with it, but given how much of a third rail it is.....

To be frank, I'd never take an issue concerning Northern Ireland to the rotUK. Where there is not complete and utter baffling ignorance, there is a desire to jettison us among the political elite.

Quote

I must go eat nandos now

Truly a trial of breathtaking cruelty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2018, 12:44:57 pm

I still don't know what a nandos is or why it is cheeky

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 12:47:31 pm

Nandos is chicken chips and various sauces as a form of fast food yet in a fairly clean restaurant not reminiscent of McDs.

It is cheeky because it is both expensive and unhealthy. You know you ought not do it, but when your friend says "want a cheeky Nandos?" the urge to cheekify intensifies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 07, 2018, 01:52:37 pm

Nandos is utterly toxic. The only good thing about it is that the rest of the similarly priced British food places are arguably worse.
Also fairly clean is relative. I got food poisoning at Nandos. Although to be fair IMO part of the problem is how they prepare the chicken actually. See, they marinate the chicken for a while in their sauces before frying it, and I think that's not such a good idea with poultry.

Chicken also tends to be dry and a bit tasteless, but if you use enough peri sauce it will burn with the heat of a thousand suns and by the time your tongue has stopped being numb it will already be in your stomach

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 07, 2018, 03:48:13 pm

I read that as "petri sauce" first, and thought you were still going on about the biohazards of poultry.

And I thought you folks had regular curry shacks where you managed to elevate chicken tikka masala above fish and chips for "most popular fast food"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2018, 03:52:25 pm

Urgh, I dislike curry. Though it is popular, true.

I think the most popular fast food other than fish 'n' chips is Chinese, at least where I am.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 07, 2018, 07:31:56 pm

I'll just leave this here (http://bennyhillthis.com/?v=w_tDwkVys74)

*flees*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

France, what are you doing putting explosives in your anti-riot gear?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 09, 2018, 07:17:10 am

Shh! We don't talk about the French in this thread!


See? I can be topical...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 09, 2018, 09:55:02 am

Quote from: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

You sure about that? (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-accounts-fuel-protesters-outrage-online-xx2f2g8th)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 10:05:41 am

Quote from: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

France, what are you doing putting explosives in your anti-riot gear?

When I was younger, a leader lost an eye due to receiving a flash ball in the forehead. In NDDL, a visitor received a flashball in the spine through his bag. Critical hit, spine snapped, killing him instantly. Remi Fraisse he was called.

Flashballs are supposed to be safe, but are meant to be used to do lobbed shots. Problem is, police is panic prone and use them like rifles when they are under stress. According to videos I saw, when they are in danger they just shoot straight, without security distance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 09, 2018, 10:12:11 am

They aren't panicking. They want to do as much damage as possible. "Less-than-lethal, a tragic accident" don't you know? You can't train a pig to be anything but a pig.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 10:18:30 am

I have a nuanced opinion on that matter in view of recent events, when national police was cornered by protestors and just opened fire to disperse the attacking crowd before retreating. In some case it's warranted, in some cases it's not. But yeah I think we talked about that enough.

Also, trivia : If you ever meet an anti riot police in the streets of France, look at their helmet. Blue lines : they are cops of the police nationale. Badly trained and notable cowboy mentality. Yellow lines and they are mobile gendarmerie (CRS). It's army, not police, but have an all around reputation of professionalism. You'll be wacked in both cases, but now you'll now by who

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 09, 2018, 11:08:44 am

Quote from: Ametsala on December 09, 2018, 09:55:02 am

Quote from: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

You sure about that? (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-accounts-fuel-protesters-outrage-online-xx2f2g8th)

Paywalled

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Mech#4 on December 09, 2018, 11:19:21 am

Quote from: Teneb on December 09, 2018, 11:08:44 am

Quote from: Ametsala on December 09, 2018, 09:55:02 am

Quote from: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

You sure about that? (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-accounts-fuel-protesters-outrage-online-xx2f2g8th)

Paywalled

Also, is the page source supposed to look like that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 11:21:27 am

Edit : Better source (https://www.latribune.fr/technos-medias/internet/des-hackers-soutiennent-les-gilets-jaunes-et-annoncent-le-chaos-le-8-decembre-800353.html)

Apparently, until now, the method of action was DDoS attacks or website defacing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 01:10:23 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 09, 2018, 09:55:02 am

Quote from: da_nang on December 09, 2018, 02:39:59 am

A French protester got his hand blown off. (NSFW video circulating on the web, not linking that).

You sure about that? (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-accounts-fuel-protesters-outrage-online-xx2f2g8th)

I mean, I suppose an actor could've gotten some kind of "blown-off hand" prop. It apparently happened in Bordeaux, there's video and photo of the aftermath, and the scene looks authentic. Google gives no reliable news outlet (and conspiracy nuts would of course believe there's a cover up).

And trying to find the first instance of the video via google is a pain...  ::) (or my Google-fu is foobar)

I suppose the minimal blood splatter could be a warning sign, at least in the phone-quality video. Then again, the photo shows a bit more. What do I know, I've never set off an explosive in my hand so I don't know what blood splatter I should expect.

Still, GLI-F4 grenades are used in France and their 25 g of TNT generates upon detonation a pressure of ~100 MPa (~1000 atm) for a roughly fist-sized enclosure, or about the pressure inside a firing gun. Based on what damage some revolvers can do if you hold your hand on the side of the gap between the cylinder and the firing pin, I'm inclined to believe that such pressure can seriously mess up someone's hand.

And Wiki appear to agree on that sentiment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 02:14:19 pm

Edit : Alright, according to french medias, about ten plaints have been issued in relation with the use of grenades GLI-F4. Apparently mostly leg injuries, as for this  exemple in Paris (https://www.bfmtv.com/societe/blesse-au-pied-par-une-grenade-explosive-un-gilet-jaune-souhaite-porter-plainte-1583490.html). The hand injury is highly suspiscious, and really only makes sense if the protestor have tried to pick up and launch back the grenade, or had his own explosive go off in his hand.

Of course there are no cover-up. The plaints are now treated by the justice system and we'll know all about in a few months.

Unidentified grenades have also been spotted at Anger (http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/11/23/01016-20181123ARTFIG00319-angers-un-gilet-jaune-arme-d-une-grenade-veut-rencontrer-macron.php), where a man armed with explosives had a face-off with police before being talked out of the situation. Tho this suggest some protestors had access to military weapons, and this is a tad worrying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 09, 2018, 02:29:41 pm

Throwing back a grenade shot at you is a trait exercised by the guilty and innocent alike. No one likes having grenades shot at them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 02:42:30 pm

I agree those grenades should be banned and it's indeed not normal to launch them at protestors. Tho picking up a grenade, as I believe is what happened, is probably the single most stupid thing you can do in that situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 09, 2018, 02:45:08 pm

Well, having a grenade shot at you isn't really conducive to calm and collected thinking trough of a stiuation. It was probably a reflex, hell, if the situation was confusing enough they might've not even realised what it was until it was too late.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 02:56:06 pm

I mean we'll see how it develops, for now all we can do is speculate, even tho that scenario makes sense to me. Police shoots to disperse crowd, 20 years old kid thinks he's rambo and reality happens. This is plausible but still speculation at this point.

(Edit : I do not condone the use of violence especially by police force, and I say "don't try to pick up a anti riot grenade" like I would say "don't try to wrestle a mugger with a knife")

Don't think we don't punish people who do harm to others even in the situation of a violent demonstration, especially when that event and the actors are clearly identifiable. A motion by lawyers are calling for the ban of explosive devices for crowd control forces, I hope it will be carried through.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 09, 2018, 03:15:21 pm

Meanwhile, Poland is experiencing the greatest corruption scandal the country has ever seen. Over 5 billion PLN have been lost or stolen in the SKOKs (essentially, credit unions). Seeing as the PiS party is heavily involved in the fraudulent operations of the SKOKs and seeing as they have been consistently covering up for the affair for the last ten or fifteen years nothing will be done to punish the men responsible. In fact, the men responsible for revealing the fraudulent operations of the SKOKs have been arrested for "not doing enough", even after one of them, Wojciech Kwaśniak, was beaten to an inch of his life in plain daylight by a hired thug with a telescopic baton.

If I have time, I might write up a larger post about the whole affair. Good night and good luck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 09, 2018, 03:32:10 pm

Quote from: Jopax on December 09, 2018, 02:45:08 pm

Well, having a grenade shot at you isn't really conducive to calm and collected thinking trough of a stiuation. It was probably a reflex, hell, if the situation was confusing enough they might've not even realised what it was until it was too late.

Heeeeey batter batter batter!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 09, 2018, 04:59:00 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 09, 2018, 02:42:30 pm

I agree those grenades should be banned and it's indeed not normal to launch them at protestors. Tho picking up a grenade, as I believe is what happened, is probably the single most stupid thing you can do in that situation.

It happens extensively in riots, especially ones with tear gas grenades. So it can happen.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on December 10, 2018, 03:44:01 am

Tonight on 10 Downing street... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjp5OmoDYQM&feature=youtu.be)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 10, 2018, 07:32:45 am

Alright, so I could talk to a friend whose close to the movement. I mentionned the hand blew off incident, and he told me exactly what you would expect. Paraphrasing and roughly translating : "we had two last week, kids pick up tear gas grenades bare hand. If you want to send them back, you have to hit them with a pole"

So here you go, mistery solved. Illuminati are innocent this time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 08:29:21 am

Quote from: wierd on December 10, 2018, 03:44:01 am

Tonight on 10 Downing street... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjp5OmoDYQM&feature=youtu.be)

Hamwise Cameron: What are you up to? Sneaking off, are we?
Smaygol: Sneaking? Sneaking? Fat Tory is always so polite. Smaygol shows them secret ways that nobody else could find and they say "Sneak!", "Sneak!". Very nice friends, oh yes, my Precious, very nice.
Hamwise Cameron: Alright, alright - you just startled me is all.
(peering over the cliff's edge)
What were you doing?
Smaygol: (sly) Sneaking!
Too exhausted to argue, HAM turns away.
Hamwise Cameron: Fine, have it your own way.

HAM gently shakes BOJO'S shoulder.

Hamwise (cont'd): Sorry to wake you, Mr Frodo. We have to be moving on.
HAM rummages through his COUNTRY, looking for an electorate to eat.
BOJO sits up slowly.
Bojo Baggins: We're unpopular still.
Ham: We're always unpopular here.

CLOSE ON: HAM stops rummaging . . . SHOCK on his face.

HAM (cont'd): It's gone . . . the Tory mandate!
Bojo Baggins: (alarmed) What? That's all we have left!
Hamwise slowly turns to Smaygol...
HAM (dawning realisation): She took it! She must have!
Smaygol: (shocked) Smaygol? No, no, not poor Smaygol. Smaygol hates nasty Tory mandates
HAM: You're a lying wretch! What did you do with it?
BOJO: She doesn't want it . . . She can't have taken it.

CLOSE ON: Smaygol slaps his hand against HAM'S JACKET . . . sending TORY MANDATE CRUMBS RAINING DOWN!

SMAYGOL: What's this? Tory leadership votes on his jacketses! (fake outrage) He took it! He took it! I seen him, he's always campaigning himself when Master's not looking!
HAM: (angry) That's a filthy lie!
HAM is ENRAGED . . . he throws himself at Smaygol.. punching her!
HAM (cont'd) (yelling) You stinking two-faced sneak! Call me a cheat!
BOJO: (yelling) Ham! Stop it!
BOJO pulls HAM off Smaygol ...
HAM: (yelling) I'll unseat her! I'll unseat her!
BOJO: No, Sam!
BOJO COLLAPSES on the GROUND!

CLOSE ON: HAM'S horrified face!

HAM: Arlight, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for Brexit to go so far, I was so angry . . . Here, let's rest up a bit.
HAM attempts to fuss around BOJO...
BOJO: (exhausted) I'm alright.
HAM: No, no, you're not alright! You're exhausted! It's that Smaygol; it's this place; it's that Tory leadership. I could help a bit . . . I could carry it for a while longer - share the load.

CLOSE ON: A terrible light comes into BOJO'S eyes as he
STARES into the EARNEST eyes of HAM.

BOJO: Get away!
BOJO pushes HAM away, clutching at the LEADERSHIP BID beneath his shirt
HAM: (confused) I don't want to keep it . . . I just want to help!
BOJO rises to his FEET, as if empowered with a frightening intense RHUBARB.
SMAYGOL: See! See! He wants it all for himself.
HAM: (beside himself) Shut up, you! Go away. Get out of here.
CLOSE ON: BOJO...
BOJO: (quietly) No, Ham . . . it's you.
HAM stares at BOJO with DISBELIEF.
BOJO (cont'd) I'm sorry, Ham ...
CLOSE ON: TEARS WELL in HAM'S eyes . . .
HAM: (hopelessly) But . . . she's a liar . . . she's poisoned you against me.
BOJO: You can't help me anymore.
HAM: You don't mean that.
BOJO: (eerie calm) Brexit means Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 10, 2018, 08:39:35 am

Did you just cast Cameron in the role of the hero

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 08:48:10 am

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2018, 08:39:35 am

Did you just cast Cameron in the role of the hero

I would make everyone going as far back to Blair a member of the Coalition Government of the Ring

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on December 10, 2018, 09:26:45 am

We have reached peak memes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjp5OmoDYQM&fbclid=IwAR3JgOy3j0DCQbVYuFVOlbOb5GfFF9Y-qhgYaZLcktsKubujK8n36RX22bA)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

Also, European Court of Justice agrees with the dude from last week, UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit.

Labour planning to table no confidence vote instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 10, 2018, 09:34:58 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

A little ways down on that page there was a mid-article link titled Reality Check: Does Brussels blink?.

Only thing is, I blinked, and so I read it instead as Reality Check: Does Brussels exist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 11:05:34 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

Also, European Court of Justice agrees with the dude from last week, UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit.

Labour planning to table no confidence vote instead.

Can't wait until the no confidence is won by a significant margin instead. This May be spicy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on December 10, 2018, 11:10:41 am

Heading blindly into a situation we have no idea how it will pan out, with no arrangements agreed, with a leader noone trusts or has any faith in.  We are totally and utterly fucked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

Also, European Court of Justice agrees with the dude from last week, UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit.

Labour planning to table no confidence vote instead.

Now that they've practically been given an open barn door for a way out, I think they'd be fools not to take the opportunity. But that's just my opinion as I know it differs from some.

Quote from: Rowanas on December 10, 2018, 11:10:41 am

Heading blindly into a situation we have no idea how it will pan out, with no arrangements agreed, with a leader noone trusts or has any faith in.  We are totally and utterly fucked.

And they've just been given a way to totally and utterly unfuck themselves.

Quote from: Cathar on December 10, 2018, 07:32:45 am

Alright, so I could talk to a friend whose close to the movement. I mentionned the hand blew off incident, and he told me exactly what you would expect. Paraphrasing and roughly translating : "we had two last week, kids pick up tear gas grenades bare hand. If you want to send them back, you have to hit them with a pole"

So here you go, mistery solved. Illuminati are innocent this time

Wouldn't hitting it with a pole still make it detonate? Seems like flicking it with a pole (a hockey stick would probably be easier to do it with) is a better idea than smacking it like a golf ball.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 10, 2018, 11:27:23 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

Wouldn't hitting it with a pole still make it detonate? Seems like flicking it with a pole (a hockey stick would probably be easier to do it with) is a better idea than smacking it like a golf ball.

Yes, but a hockey stick is large enough to be noticed. And after it happened a time or two, the police would label anyone carrying a hockey stick (or object that looks anything like one) as a dangerous terrorist who is even worse than a photographer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 10, 2018, 11:46:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

And they've just been given a way to totally and utterly unfuck themselves.

Hotel  California is not a way to unfuck oneself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 01:26:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

Also, European Court of Justice agrees with the dude from last week, UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit.

Labour planning to table no confidence vote instead.

Now that they've practically been given an open barn door for a way out, I think they'd be fools not to take the opportunity. But that's just my opinion as I know it differs from some.

Quote from: Rowanas on December 10, 2018, 11:10:41 am

Heading blindly into a situation we have no idea how it will pan out, with no arrangements agreed, with a leader noone trusts or has any faith in.  We are totally and utterly fucked.

And they've just been given a way to totally and utterly unfuck themselves

The issue is much more complex than that. Two major sticking points are that there was already a referendum (non-binding however much it was) that voted one way, and despite the SNP not harping on about independence and working toward figuring out alternatives to it, if they redo the Brexit one, they’re going to demand a redo of the independence one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on December 10, 2018, 03:09:49 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2018, 11:46:46 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

And they've just been given a way to totally and utterly unfuck themselves.

Hotel  California is not a way to unfuck oneself.

Check out anytime you like UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 05:02:09 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 01:26:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 10, 2018, 11:14:31 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Vote’s been cancelled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288).

Also, European Court of Justice agrees with the dude from last week, UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit.

Labour planning to table no confidence vote instead.

Now that they've practically been given an open barn door for a way out, I think they'd be fools not to take the opportunity. But that's just my opinion as I know it differs from some.

Quote from: Rowanas on December 10, 2018, 11:10:41 am

Heading blindly into a situation we have no idea how it will pan out, with no arrangements agreed, with a leader noone trusts or has any faith in.  We are totally and utterly fucked.

And they've just been given a way to totally and utterly unfuck themselves

The issue is much more complex than that. Two major sticking points are that there was already a referendum (non-binding however much it was) that voted one way, and despite the SNP not harping on about independence and working toward figuring out alternatives to it, if they redo the Brexit one, they’re going to demand a redo of the independence one.

Haven't they already threatened to have a redo of the independence one if Brexit goes through? I know they were threatening to leave if Brexit goes through because Scotland mostly wanted to remain in the EU. Might have been tempered somewhat by the EU saying that Scotland would have to start from the beginning and not play favorites (or perhaps creating precedent for secceeders) rather than having it be fast tracked.

Still, the option is there should they have a collective mental breakdown and decide to cancel Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 10, 2018, 05:33:33 pm

Can any British person here explain what was that stuff about a labor mp grabbing a  mace?
Edit

Quote

Russell-Moyle later said he acted “on the spur of the moment” because of his frustration MPs were not being listened to. Speaking from the Red Lion pub just outside Parliament, the Labour MP said:

The symbolic gesture of lifting the mace and removing it is that the will of Parliament to govern is no longer there has been removed.

I felt Parliament had effectively given up its sovereign right to govern properly. They stopped me before I got out of the Chamber and I wasn’t going to struggle with someone wearing a huge sword on their hip.

You were wielding a huge mace you gigantic pussy! Just shout "What is dead may never die!" and deliver summary executive power!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 05:43:35 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 10, 2018, 05:33:33 pm

Can any British person here explain what was that stuff about a labor mp grabbing a  mace?
Edit

Quote

Russell-Moyle later said he acted “on the spur of the moment” because of his frustration MPs were not being listened to. Speaking from the Red Lion pub just outside Parliament, the Labour MP said:

The symbolic gesture of lifting the mace and removing it is that the will of Parliament to govern is no longer there has been removed.

I felt Parliament had effectively given up its sovereign right to govern properly. They stopped me before I got out of the Chamber and I wasn’t going to struggle with someone wearing a huge sword on their hip.

You were wielding a huge mace you gigantic pussy! Just shout "What is dead may never die!" and deliver summary executive power!

A gilt ceremonial mace, wielded by a sedentary parliamentarian. The years of Cromwellian soldier-statesmen is over, for the exact reason that the soldier-statesman was easily capable of assuming executive command. To wit, no one was ever brave enough to tell Cromwell he couldn't attend parliament fully armed and armoured, despite Cromwell forbidding everyone from doing so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on December 10, 2018, 09:25:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 05:43:35 pm

The years of Cromwellian soldier-statesmen is over, for the exact reason that the soldier-statesman was easily capable of assuming executive command. To wit, no one was ever brave enough to tell Cromwell he couldn't attend parliament fully armed and armoured, despite Cromwell forbidding everyone from doing so.

I choose to interpret this is as evidence that the only reason May is still PM is that she's packing some serious heat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 09:28:34 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on December 10, 2018, 09:25:39 pm

I choose to interpret this is as evidence that the only reason May is still PM is that she's packing some serious heat.

She's still there because she's the Austria-Hungary of government. Everyone wants her gone, but no one has made a move to replace her, because no one can agree on who to replace her with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 10, 2018, 09:42:21 pm

I'm just saying, there's no downside to locking the entire Orie government in the tower indefinitely if they can't agree on a course of action.

As Immanuel Kant would have put it: "Fucking do it Jezza go go boi make or break the throat of fate fire liz while you're at it".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 10:02:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 09:28:34 pm

Quote from: UrbanGiraffe on December 10, 2018, 09:25:39 pm

I choose to interpret this is as evidence that the only reason May is still PM is that she's packing some serious heat.

She's still there because she's the Austria-Hungary of government. Everyone wants her gone, but no one has made a move to replace her, because no one can agree on who to replace her with.

It also has a lot to do with the people who engineer her removal likely being accused of putting their personal ambitions ahead of the country’s interest.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 10:34:25 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 10, 2018, 10:02:47 pm

It also has a lot to do with the people who engineer her removal likely being accused of putting their personal ambitions ahead of the country’s interest.

10/10

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 11, 2018, 02:04:45 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2018, 05:43:35 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 10, 2018, 05:33:33 pm

Can any British person here explain what was that stuff about a labor mp grabbing a  mace?
Edit

Quote

Russell-Moyle later said he acted “on the spur of the moment” because of his frustration MPs were not being listened to. Speaking from the Red Lion pub just outside Parliament, the Labour MP said:

The symbolic gesture of lifting the mace and removing it is that the will of Parliament to govern is no longer there has been removed.

I felt Parliament had effectively given up its sovereign right to govern properly. They stopped me before I got out of the Chamber and I wasn’t going to struggle with someone wearing a huge sword on their hip.

You were wielding a huge mace you gigantic pussy! Just shout "What is dead may never die!" and deliver summary executive power!

A gilt ceremonial mace, wielded by a sedentary parliamentarian. The years of Cromwellian soldier-statesmen is over, for the exact reason that the soldier-statesman was easily capable of assuming executive command. To wit, no one was ever brave enough to tell Cromwell he couldn't attend parliament fully armed and armoured, despite Cromwell forbidding everyone from doing so.

Link to whatever that quote is from? Curious as to the background context. Also, who wears huge swords on their hips these days? Apart from LARPers, historical re-enactors and people just playing costume. Also2, a huge sword? Like bastard sword or claymore size, the kind big enough to use as an improptu club? Also3, what even was someone with a big sword doing in the Parliament anyway (besides LWs mention of Cromwell), or rather, how did they get in with that sword?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 03:18:18 am

The same way the mace got in. Ceremonial implements. The British are fond of this stuff you know. Pull a sword from that rock and you're king, pull a mace from that other and you're head of parliament. No idea what the usher swords give you but it seems they might make you an orderly in the British parliament, so not so good. Go for the mace instead. Work/life balance and wages seem betterq

I like to think that it's original meaning was not symbolical and it was actually used as an enhaced, more compelling version of modern party whips.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 04:40:31 am

Blind mystic Baba Vanga's 2019 predictions - after foreseeing 9/11 and Brexit (https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/blind-mystic-baba-vanga-who-13715567.amp)
Baba Vanga - known as the 'Nostradamus of the Balkans' - claimed Vladimr Putin will be the target of an assassination attempt while Europe will see an economic collapse next year

(https://headtopics.com/images/2018/12/10/dailymirror/blind-mystic-baba-vanga-s-2019-predictions-after-foreseeing-9-11-and-brexit-1072215178194903041.webp)


Folks, I'm going to miss British newspapers when you leave the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on December 11, 2018, 04:48:38 am

Is she going to choke to death on a sore throat lozenge?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wobbly on December 11, 2018, 05:13:07 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 10, 2018, 05:33:33 pm

Can any British person here explain what was that stuff about a labor mp grabbing a  mace?
Edit

Quote

Russell-Moyle later said he acted “on the spur of the moment” because of his frustration MPs were not being listened to. Speaking from the Red Lion pub just outside Parliament, the Labour MP said:

The symbolic gesture of lifting the mace and removing it is that the will of Parliament to govern is no longer there has been removed.

I felt Parliament had effectively given up its sovereign right to govern properly. They stopped me before I got out of the Chamber and I wasn’t going to struggle with someone wearing a huge sword on their hip.

You were wielding a huge mace you gigantic pussy! Just shout "What is dead may never die!" and deliver summary executive power!

I heard a prophecy that who ever bears the legendary sceptre of fire would be true heir to all of Westminster. The rest I assume is just the usual cosplay that makes up a well functioning parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 05:21:07 am

Quote from: wierd on December 11, 2018, 04:48:38 am

Is she going to choke to death on a sore throat lozenge?

She never saw it coming...


In other (Norwegian) news (https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/gikk-i-strupen-pa-media_-_-ren-og-skjaer-opportunisme-1.14334138?fbclid=IwAR3FrDuf4Qj2aKDZ3p0nYfFGyCihIaSJESBcnIx_p0A3oSxED-P8-NxUFAc); a professor at the University of Stavanger was fired after a number of unsolicited sexually inappropriate messages he'd sent to multiple women, including colleagues and other university employees, were revealed and released to the press.

He is now suing the board of education for firing him "without reason", and says that this is all the fault of the media. For publicizing messages indicating he'd been harassing women about letting him lick their buttholes.

Messages that he'd sent.

To women.

About licking their butts.



We need to address the problem at its source! We need to stop the press from reporting these issues and getting the public unfairly involved!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 05:25:42 am

Quote from: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 05:21:07 am

Quote from: wierd on December 11, 2018, 04:48:38 am

Is she going to choke to death on a sore throat lozenge?

She never saw it coming...


In other (Norwegian) news (https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/gikk-i-strupen-pa-media_-_-ren-og-skjaer-opportunisme-1.14334138?fbclid=IwAR3FrDuf4Qj2aKDZ3p0nYfFGyCihIaSJESBcnIx_p0A3oSxED-P8-NxUFAc); a professor at the University of Stavanger was fired after a number of unsolicited sexually inappropriate messages he'd sent to multiple women, including colleagues and other university employees, were revealed and released to the press.

He is now suing the board of education for firing him "without reason", and says that this is all the fault of the media. For publicizing messages indicating he'd been harassing women about letting him lick their buttholes.

Messages that he'd sent.

To women.

About licking their butts.



We need to address the problem at its source! We need to stop the press from reporting these issues and getting the public unfairly involved!

I don't know what you're talking about. I only see a concerned citizen who cares about his colleagues and offers to assist in grooming and personal hygiene

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 11, 2018, 05:42:57 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 05:25:42 am

Quote from: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 05:21:07 am

Quote from: wierd on December 11, 2018, 04:48:38 am

Is she going to choke to death on a sore throat lozenge?

She never saw it coming...


In other (Norwegian) news (https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/gikk-i-strupen-pa-media_-_-ren-og-skjaer-opportunisme-1.14334138?fbclid=IwAR3FrDuf4Qj2aKDZ3p0nYfFGyCihIaSJESBcnIx_p0A3oSxED-P8-NxUFAc); a professor at the University of Stavanger was fired after a number of unsolicited sexually inappropriate messages he'd sent to multiple women, including colleagues and other university employees, were revealed and released to the press.

He is now suing the board of education for firing him "without reason", and says that this is all the fault of the media. For publicizing messages indicating he'd been harassing women about letting him lick their buttholes.

Messages that he'd sent.

To women.

About licking their butts.



We need to address the problem at its source! We need to stop the press from reporting these issues and getting the public unfairly involved!

I don't know what you're talking about. I only see a concerned citizen who cares about his colleagues and offers to assist in grooming and personal hygiene

How DARE the press bring POLITICS into personal grooming!?!?!?!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on December 11, 2018, 09:14:44 am

sMAYgol confirmed to have insisted on "no room whatsoever" to compromise on her deal for a Brexit. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eu-britain-brexit-no-renegotiation-deal-struck-by-prime-minister-theresa-may/)

(Rumors that she muttered and cursed to herself remain unsubstantiated.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 11, 2018, 10:27:39 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 03:18:18 am

The same way the mace got in. Ceremonial implements. The British are fond of this stuff you know. Pull a sword from that rock and you're king, pull a mace from that other and you're head of parliament. No idea what the usher swords give you but it seems they might make you an orderly in the British parliament, so not so good. Go for the mace instead. Work/life balance and wages seem betterq

I like to think that it's original meaning was not symbolical and it was actually used as an enhaced, more compelling version of modern party whips.

Made me think of that guy who fended off a guy with a gun with a similar sort of ceremonial mace. It's likely more that he had no intention of a physical confrontation than specifically the guy with the huge sword.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2018, 04:40:31 am

Blind mystic Baba Vanga's 2019 predictions - after foreseeing 9/11 and Brexit (https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/blind-mystic-baba-vanga-who-13715567.amp)
Baba Vanga - known as the 'Nostradamus of the Balkans' - claimed Vladimr Putin will be the target of an assassination attempt while Europe will see an economic collapse next year

(https://headtopics.com/images/2018/12/10/dailymirror/blind-mystic-baba-vanga-s-2019-predictions-after-foreseeing-9-11-and-brexit-1072215178194903041.webp)


Folks, I'm going to miss British newspapers when you leave the EU

I misread that initially as Baba Yaga. Apparently the assassination on Putin would be an inside job, isn't that generally true of dictators? Often times the biggest threats are the ones close to you who want power rather than from the outside.

Also, this one made me lol 'Donald Trump will fall ill with a mystery illness, leaving him deaf and suffering from brain trauma.' You can interpret that one in ALL SORTS of ways.

Quote from: wierd on December 11, 2018, 09:14:44 am

sMAYgol confirmed to have insisted on "no room whatsoever" to compromise on her deal for a Brexit. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eu-britain-brexit-no-renegotiation-deal-struck-by-prime-minister-theresa-may/)

(Rumors that she muttered and cursed to herself remain unsubstantiated.)

You mean sJUNCKERgol because it was Juncker who said that, not May. Yes, I know it ruins the pun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 11, 2018, 02:48:24 pm

We do not dig too continental lest we awaken the juncker of morgoth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 11, 2018, 03:44:03 pm

"It is this deal or no deal! This is totally the best deal!"

If the person you're selling a car to says that, you know it's a bad sign.

Anyway, presumably Juncker and co are hoping for one of two things. A deal which they like and which shows other nations the folly of leaving or a Brexitmas in which the Grinch steals Brexit.

In reality, I suspect they're just pushing us further and further into the arms of no deal. The deal is unacceptable and the idea of not Brexiting, while legally possible, is technically impossible.

In other words: There are three paths. One towards The Immovable and Absolute Deal, one towards the abolition of Brexitmas, and the other towards No Deal. No one wants the last, but if the other two paths are filled with bricks and brambles, a bit of mud won't seem so bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 11, 2018, 04:00:43 pm

The problem with your metaphor or aphorism there is that a No-Deal Brexit would be worse than a more transitioned Brexit, so, it's not just 'a bit of mud'.

No-Deal Brexit is just the path of no path at all, it's simply the default that happens if nothing is decided on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 11, 2018, 04:06:47 pm

Alright.

There are three paths. One leads into a brick wall. This has been sign posted "Brexitmas Cancelled".

Another stretches some distance, but ultimately ends in a bank of thorns which will cruelly entangle any who enter. This is Best Deal You For Some Reason Can't Stand, Pleb.

The other path is less certain and has many pits and falls. No Deal, it says, and its sign has a funny red box with a question mark on it.

A group stand nearby, looking down each path. Some think they could clear the third one, others do not. None like the first two, and doubt that traversing them would be feasible at all.

Edit: This seems like a good setting for a D&D campaign.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:21:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:06:47 pm

Edit: This seems like a good setting for a D&D campaign.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://media.oglaf.com/comic/trapmaster.jpg)

Note: If you URL-trace that image and end up exposing yourself to NSFW material, it's your own damn fault.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 11, 2018, 04:23:09 pm

Quote from: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:21:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:06:47 pm

Edit: This seems like a good setting for a D&D campaign.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://media.oglaf.com/comic/trapmaster.jpg)

Note: If you URL-trace that image and end up exposing yourself to NSFW material, it's your own damn fault.

I see no image.

Also, I was wrong. It's a P&P setting. Parliaments and Politicians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:27:32 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:23:09 pm

Quote from: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:21:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:06:47 pm

Edit: This seems like a good setting for a D&D campaign.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://media.oglaf.com/comic/trapmaster.jpg)

Note: If you URL-trace that image and end up exposing yourself to NSFW material, it's your own damn fault.

I see no image.

Also, I was wrong. It's a P&P setting. Parliaments and Politicians.

Ah, of course not... I https'ed myself into isolation. Should probably be working now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 11, 2018, 04:31:04 pm

Nope.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:34:51 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:31:04 pm

Nope.

Dammit, fine, I'll rehost the damn thing then.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cf5hlx.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 11, 2018, 05:03:52 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/FfCJxOO.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 11, 2018, 05:54:20 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:23:09 pm

Quote from: Kagus on December 11, 2018, 04:21:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 11, 2018, 04:06:47 pm

Edit: This seems like a good setting for a D&D campaign.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://media.oglaf.com/comic/trapmaster.jpg)

Note: If you URL-trace that image and end up exposing yourself to NSFW material, it's your own damn fault.

I see no image.

Also, I was wrong. It's a P&P setting. Parliaments and Politicians.

beat ya to it bro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg7Dxj6efeA)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 05:15:02 am

Terrorist attack at French Christmas market (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-shots/gunman-kills-three-people-in-french-christmas-market-flees-idUSKBN1OA2A8)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 05:20:29 am

Theresa May to face vote of no confidence (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739)

_{MOISTURISE ME}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on December 12, 2018, 07:12:31 am

I think you might be moist enough already whispers. :P

I mean, I know you guys are stretched thin over there, and this issue is seemingly 2 dimensional, and taught at all the edges, but really? It's not like we are counting down to the ultimate destruction of the planet here or something... :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 12, 2018, 07:16:47 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 05:20:29 am

Theresa May to face vote of no confidence (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739)

In her own party that is, i.e. at least 15 % of conservative MP's have wrote letters of no confidence. She needs a simple majority of the MP's of her own party to continue as the party leader - and PM.

If she loses, the conservatives will select a new leader, which can take up to six weeks. The new leader will then become the new PM (who will then need to have confidence in parliament)

I doubt she'll be ousted, but the British seem to like the Benny Hill politics they've had for the last couple of years so who knows.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 12, 2018, 09:08:13 am

I'm split on the issue.

One one hand, May might be the May fly and die.
On the other, a new leader means more delays, more manoeuvring and less Brexiting. Not that May's currently doing much of the latter, I suppose.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 12, 2018, 09:21:50 am

I heard rumours that Corbo is angling for a vote of no confidence in the government itself after the DUP gave May the finger last vote

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2018, 09:42:38 am

He doesnt have the votes I think. He'd need the ERG as a whole to support him... and I dont think they will because they'd be committing political hara kiri (even more I mean)

Btw food for thought: could it be that this is a self-coup? I mean the ERG tried and failed to get 48 votes in the past. Right now Theresa May is getting  overwhelming (public) support from her MPs. Could it be that she had loyalists push the threshold of no confidence letters over 48 so that she could drag them into a fight they couldn't win, ensure she wont get another no confidence from her party in the next 12 months, and bind her party to herself in support of her agreement?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2018, 10:44:16 am

Wasn't Labor also angling for a no-confidence vote? It'll not just be coming from inside her own party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2018, 12:32:39 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 12, 2018, 10:44:16 am

Wasn't Labor also angling for a no-confidence vote? It'll not just be coming from inside her own party.

Not tbe same thing. The one going on is an internal party affair. As in, it's not a formal vote of no confidence at goverment level. It's the tory party replacing their lead (which would in turn replace the Pm) Only tories vote.

Likewise, in a Labor triggered no confidence vote against the goverment, all vote, but its unlikely for the conservatives to vote against themselves

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 01:11:50 pm

Quote from: wierd on December 12, 2018, 07:12:31 am

I think you might be moist enough already whispers. :P

Impossible

Quote from: wierd on December 12, 2018, 07:12:31 am

I mean, I know you guys are stretched thin over there, and this issue is seemingly 2 dimensional, and taught at all the edges, but really? It's not like we are counting down to the ultimate destruction of the planet here or something... :D

To be fair making it inhospitable to human life isn't the same as its destruction

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on December 12, 2018, 09:21:50 am

I heard rumours that Corbo is angling for a vote of no confidence in the government itself after the DUP gave May the finger last vote

Corbyn hasn't ruled out a vote of no confidence, but they haven't confirmed it either. Chances are he was waiting for this exact moment: Let the Conservatives eat their own and keep labour's hands clean of the affair.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2018, 09:42:38 am

He doesnt have the votes I think. He'd need the ERG as a whole to support him... and I dont think they will because they'd be committing political hara kiri (even more I mean)
Btw food for thought: could it be that this is a self-coup? I mean the ERG tried and failed to get 48 votes in the past.

ERG didn't pursue the vote of no confidence in the past, their policy was to keep Theresa May but lobby her to change her policy. It is only after Theresa May's stunning failures during elections, her remarkable insistence on ignoring MPs & refusal to even acknowledge any of the signs that she had lost support (any PM would have resigned at such a gratuitous mass cabinet resignation) that the Tories have settled upon a vote of no confidence. Theresa May's strategy was that instead of compromising or working with the backbenchers, she intended to instead make it so that any removal of her as leader would kill Brexit, ironically forcing the Tories to challenge her. They were unable to get anywhere close to persuading the PM to change her mind.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2018, 09:42:38 am

Right now Theresa May is getting  overwhelming (public) support from her MPs. Could it be that she had loyalists push the threshold of no confidence letters over 48 so that she could drag them into a fight they couldn't win, ensure she wont get another no confidence from her party in the next 12 months, and bind her party to herself in support of her agreement?

All the people offering their public support to Theresa May are not offering it in front of the cameras. They're absent, because they're currently meeting with their leadership candidates. If this was truly Theresa May's plan, then I must commend this bold strategy. Deliberately decapitating yourself to bamboozle your opponents tends to yield only short term advantages - she'll probably be fine if <48 vote against her, but more than that and she won't survive the aftermath of the leadership contest. She'd be entirely at the mercy of Labour who'd know the exact number of MPs willing to vote her out

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2018, 01:34:30 pm

That presumes that someone who voted against her in the contest would vote in favor of labor in a goverment vote of no conf.... are you sure thatss the case?

Edit: and hear me out. So you are a beleaguered PM who squandered her seats in an election, and also accepted the premiership under the condition that she would undertake a negotiation to achieve mutually excluding goals against a much bigger block. So predictably you come home with a compromise bill that neither the remain side of your party nor the brexiteers like. To the extent that they are willing to vote together to bring it down. So you trigger a confidence vote to pull a show of strenght in front of your party. Now IDK about British MPs but for what I've seen about conservatives elsewhere they tend to be bigger on party discipline than others. Its not impossible that she will manage to bring back most of the party under her control. Now she can avoid challenges from within for 12 months, so she can delay the May bill until its too late to do anything else, and pressure the liberal democrats and SNP into voting for her bill with no deal as the alternative, compensating to a great extent dissenters within her party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 12, 2018, 02:01:07 pm

This is so, so stupid.

It took Mrs. May about 18 months to come up with something nobody agrees with. If she loses, they have to either all agree on one person to scrap what they have and get something better before January 21st - I think that’s when the EU want something so they can vote on it - or... no deal? New referendum? or go through six weeks of a leadership contest, which takes us to January 23rd, in which case... no deal? New referendum?

What would these guys even campaign on in a leadership contest?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 12, 2018, 02:23:16 pm

Voting underway, a majority of Tory MPs have said they'll be voting for PM May but unlike most votes, this one is a secret ballot so they could be telling porkies to dodge the party whips.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2018, 02:35:34 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 12, 2018, 02:01:07 pm

This is so, so stupid.

It took Mrs. May about 18 months to come up with something nobody agrees with. If she loses, they have to either all agree on one person to scrap what they have and get something better before January 21st - I think that’s when the EU want something so they can vote on it - or... no deal? New referendum? or go through six weeks of a leadership contest, which takes us to January 23rd, in which case... no deal? New referendum?

What would these guys even campaign on in a leadership contest?

And she wasted at least six months to a year trying to do a snap election in an attempt to get a more favorable Parliament, ending up with a lot less time to negotiate than if they had started right away. Not that it'd neccesarily have changed anything given that the same forces and people are in play, but they'd have a larger effective window to work with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 12, 2018, 04:01:43 pm

May won 200 to 117.

Edit: So a bit over a third of her own party's MPs don't have confidence in her. In parliament, the opposition parties (Labour, SNP, liberals) are only about 20 votes short from winning no confidence. I expect Labour will call no confidence in the parliament pretty soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on December 12, 2018, 04:24:24 pm

What happens if Labour does that and succeeds?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 04:25:53 pm

Well now that's anticlimactic. She's managed to find a way to survive with an even weaker government

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on December 12, 2018, 04:40:27 pm

Quote from: Enemy post on December 12, 2018, 04:24:24 pm

What happens if Labour does that and succeeds?

The parliament has two weeks to form a government that has its confidence, or an election is held.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2018, 04:44:27 pm

Who are they going to replace her with? It probably works in a similar way to the Speaker of the House (which is pretty analogous) in that they'd have to have a simple majority and a quick look on wiki shows that the margin isn't a big one, somewhere within the ballpark of 117. So, they're going to have to pick someone that either brings over the dissatisfied 117 or satisfies enough of the opposition to go through.

Also, CNN went and mischaracterized it in the info text above the chyron, it's a no-confidence vote from her party, not the whole of Parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2018, 06:16:55 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 12, 2018, 04:40:27 pm

Quote from: Enemy post on December 12, 2018, 04:24:24 pm

What happens if Labour does that and succeeds?

The parliament has two weeks to form a government that has its confidence, or an election is held.

It'd be ironic if Brexit smashes through the middle of that election because they wasted time with a snap election and they're wasting whatever time is left. Unless they decide to try and do an election within three months. The snap election from start to finish took what, six months? At this point they might as well hold the elction AFTER brexit crashes through since they won't have time (if any) to attempt to renegotiate it, and the EUs demands aren't going to change just because theres a new PM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 07:20:20 pm

Quote from: greatorder on December 12, 2018, 06:07:22 pm

May has two amazing abilities: Weakening the government to hitherto unknown levels, and staying in power.

2022: Theresa May loses her seat in a by-election, loses the support of all Tory MPs, the DUP declares war on Westminster, Jeremy Corbyn annexes half of England for the new new communist internationale. Theresa May reportedly confident she can deliver a strong and stable government to conclude Brexit transitionary consultation negotiations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2018, 07:26:19 pm

Implying that Corbyn hasn't long-since perfected his purely hypothetical coup plans in a manner that would allow even a single Ory MP live to escape Westminster alive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 12, 2018, 07:28:44 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2018, 07:26:19 pm

Implying that Corbyn hasn't long-since perfected his purely hypothetical coup plans in a manner that would allow even a single Ory MP live to escape Westminster alive.

That may be, but the prophecies long ago concluded Corbyn cannot die by the hands of Tory men. If he falls, it shall be by the hands of the Labour party itself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on December 12, 2018, 07:30:45 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on December 12, 2018, 04:40:27 pm

Quote from: Enemy post on December 12, 2018, 04:24:24 pm

What happens if Labour does that and succeeds?

The parliament has two weeks to form a government that has its confidence, or an election is held.

Thanks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 14, 2018, 05:05:57 am

Spoiler: allied amphibious units raid Paris, 1944 (colorised) (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EPjhoyp.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2018, 06:29:12 am

Vikings on the Seine

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 14, 2018, 06:33:54 am

The frogmen cometh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2018, 06:38:43 am

Iae iae cthulhou france'thgn

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 07:00:55 am

If one of them falls into the water, we'll discover where the smallpox has been hiding all this time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 14, 2018, 07:49:42 am

Somewhere, someone has made quite the unexpected turnover of bright yellow tops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 07:57:26 am

My pet theory is the yellow jackets are actually a plot from the belgians to get back at us after centuries of derogatory jokes. I can imagine them cackling in their bruxellois accent une fois.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 14, 2018, 12:21:50 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 14, 2018, 07:49:42 am

Somewhere, someone has made quite the unexpected turnover of bright yellow tops.

tfw Macron's yellow jacket factory's going to make a pretty mint in time for 2019

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2018, 12:25:53 pm

That would be beautiful

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 14, 2018, 12:28:02 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 14, 2018, 12:25:53 pm

That would be beautiful

Though thinking on it further, there is a real life example of this in how Time Warner made loads of money off of V for Vendetta royalties selling all the Guy Fawkes masks to protesters. The Guy Fawkes masks were made using sweatshop labour too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 12:38:47 pm

Yellow jackets are already mendatory for all car drivers.

Also, apparently we arrested some 400 of those clowns last week end. And would you believe that. Everyone in this grassroot movement is either member or related to far right or far left movements. Gosh I'm surprized, I thought it was a spontaneous uprising, I wish someone could have foretold that.

Welp, we're dolling combined jail time ranging in the multiple centuries as we speak.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 14, 2018, 01:54:01 pm

To be fair, you can I only really say the ones that were arrested were far right/left. /pedantic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on December 14, 2018, 01:59:32 pm

Radicals espouse radical ideologies. Radicals take radical means. News at 11.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 14, 2018, 02:11:22 pm

Quote from: hector13 on December 14, 2018, 01:54:01 pm

To be fair, you can I only really say the ones that were arrested were far right/left. /pedantic

That's right.  Maybe the rest, unarrested protestora were all radical centrists
(https://i.imgur.com/tW06L0p_d.jpg?maxwidth=320&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 02:12:29 pm

To be exactly fair, we also caught some 100 minors, mostly locals, who rioted for loot rather than politics, and I assume there are some honest people who get dragged into that stuff.

But ey, law inforcement is like political Meetic. Putting people who really want to be heard in relation with people who really want them to talk. And since they are going through comparution immediate (trial without delay), we'll learn more about that very soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 14, 2018, 02:17:57 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 02:12:29 pm

To be exactly fair, we also caught some 100 minors, mostly locals, who rioted for loot rather than politics, and I assume there are some honest people who get dragged into that stuff.

But ey, law inforcement is like political Meetic. Putting people who really want to be heard in relation with people who really want them to talk. And since they are going through comparution immediate (trial without delay), we'll learn more about that very soon.

What is Meetic? That like Arthrimetric?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on December 14, 2018, 02:18:57 pm

Ah, no it's a dating website

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 17, 2018, 11:42:25 am

It appears that Theresa May is going to do the Brexit vote next month. (https://www.axios.com/theresa-may-says-brexit-vote-coming-next-month-157c308b-0ceb-4c39-afae-c120a6f2698e.html) It's the same plan that she just aborted a vote for. Not sure how she thinks that she'll get more votes (remember the snap election? heh) since if the US Congress is anything to go by, they'll stonewall until the last second.

Though I think they may have effectively gone past the deadline already since they'd need to get the vote through by the end of this month in order for the EU parliament to have time to vote on it. I suppose a vote in January would still be able to get through the EU parliament in time if they fast tracked it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 17, 2018, 01:57:04 pm

Or she wants to use that time schedule to garner votes.

Choose this deal you hate we have no time for another! The alternative is NoBrexit or FullBrexit!!! Bwahahahaha.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 17, 2018, 05:10:55 pm

"WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO THINK. I JUST WASTED ALL OF OUR TIME!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 17, 2018, 05:17:56 pm

She's on WR pace, my god, this is the run

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on December 17, 2018, 05:31:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 17, 2018, 05:10:55 pm

"WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO THINK. I JUST WASTED ALL OF OUR TIME!"

GOTTA BREXIT FAST

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 17, 2018, 07:49:48 pm

JEZZA'S GONE AND DONE IT (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46599895)

He has a point, to be fair. She cancelled the vote, had a taxpayer-funded continental jaunt, and had the balls to table the same deal but vote on it a month later.

Edit: never mind, jumped the gun. Sad day :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on December 19, 2018, 08:36:48 am

Jezza for Prezza!

I've said it before, but we are totally, ludicrously fucked, and, once again, it's not my fault.  I keep voting for not-shit things, and we keep getting shit things.  I have no voice so how am I to make myself heard, unless I choose to take "radical" action?

Shit, I'm sounding like DD.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on December 20, 2018, 08:21:32 am

Celebrated journalist for Der Spiegel turns out to have completely fabricated many of their stories. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiegel-journalist-resigns-over-fake-interviews) This is just really fucking embarrassing for a publication of this level. Nobody thought to do any fact checking for any of these stories until now, apparently. The person who did start doing so had to fight the rest of the staff every step of the way to get anyone to even consider it. Just... yikes.

I mean, these sound like great stories, so I feel like the man should've just embarked on a career of writing fiction from the outset.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 20, 2018, 09:46:17 am

...fake news?


_{god I'm sorry I'm terrible it had to be done we all thought it}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 20, 2018, 11:45:06 am

I thought Der Speigel was a bit The Onion-y in the first place, or maybe closer to that French magazine that I forget the name of atm.

Certainly doesn't help with the problems that people have with the media, which is similar on both sides of the pond as the British like to say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 20, 2018, 07:09:23 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du5W3HmXgAAWt-2.jpg:large)

The drone has defeated me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 21, 2018, 12:20:31 pm

Quote from: greatorder on December 20, 2018, 07:55:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 20, 2018, 07:09:23 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du5W3HmXgAAWt-2.jpg:large)

The drone has defeated me

You know, I'm not sure what it is about that, but those twimg links never seem to work on any computers I use unless I go directly to the source. Does the same on Reddit.

A single drone shut down London Gatwick airport for one and a half day. Lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on December 21, 2018, 12:47:49 pm

And then some, since it's happening again (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46654797).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2018, 03:19:43 pm

It's almost as if someone is deliberately testing uk's infrastructure

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 21, 2018, 05:19:44 pm

Someone... bald... and whose surname rhymes with cutting?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 21, 2018, 05:24:56 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 21, 2018, 05:19:44 pm

Someone... bald... and whose surname rhymes with cutting?

*GASP!*

You mean... Tom Hutting?! (https://mena.nl/profile/tom--hutting)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on December 22, 2018, 05:27:04 am

A friend of mine proposed this as a form of economic terrorism quite some time ago. A suspicious package and a drone could shut down any travel infrastructure in Britain, and enough of that would either make us lax enough for something more serious, or we'd keep shutting everything down and crippling London.

Heh, actually, i'm all for it.  Fuck London to death with a rusty awl.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 22, 2018, 11:40:21 am

Can u not pls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Rowanas on December 22, 2018, 11:45:22 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 22, 2018, 11:40:21 am

Can u not pls

Sorry, already got my London-fucking awl ready and it is looking pretty rusty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 22, 2018, 02:35:02 pm

Act like an armada and blow off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 22, 2018, 03:01:40 pm

I don't believe that endorsing more drones or fake suspicious packages is a very friendly idea.
This drone though should be a good wake up call for those in charge of keeping the airspace safe.
Shutting down entire airports with a device that can be ordered online for a few bucks sure is a very cost-efficient way of disrupting the economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 22, 2018, 03:16:15 pm

Quote from: Rowanas on December 22, 2018, 11:45:22 am

Sorry, already got my London-fucking awl ready and it is looking pretty rusty.

Boudicaa pls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 30, 2018, 06:19:23 pm

Happy new years lads

Regarding Brexit memes, expect things to be quiet for the next week as MPs are on holiday until the 7th of Jan. In Turkey news, Erdogan says he'll withdraw from the Syrian town of Manbij once he's eliminated the YPG (Kurdish militia) (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-manbij/with-u-s-departure-syrias-manbij-braces-for-upheaval-idUSKCN1OT0CT). In Russia news, Putin says he's open for dialogue with Donald Trump, critics allege Putin has ties to the Russian government (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-russia-usa-dialogue/putin-tells-trump-that-moscow-is-open-for-dialogue-idUKKCN1OT080). This comes as Moscow begins fortifying the Crimean peninsula's borders with security fences & sensors (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46699807).

In yellow jacket news, the protests continue but are beginning to falter from lower turnout in France (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-protests/turnout-falters-but-frances-yellow-vest-protests-rumble-on-idUKKCN1OS0H0), Dutch cavalry commanders led by the General Who Pacifies the North likewise dispersed the Yellow Jacket Rebels. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-protests/dutch-mounted-police-break-up-yellow-vest-protest-in-the-hague-idUSKCN1OS0LK) Order set to return to the Heavenly Union in the era of restored tranquility by January.

In other news France urges Israel to reconsider the construction of further settlements in West Bank (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-israel-palestinians-france/france-urges-israel-to-reconsider-settler-home-approvals-in-west-bank-idUKKCN1OQ16U).
In German news, Kramp Karrenbauer polls as more popular than Merkel, suggesting a likely replacement for the Chancellor who will step down in 2021 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-politics/germanys-kramp-karrenbauer-more-popular-than-mentor-merkel-poll-idUKKCN1OT0ED). In a move I totally called, the German military is considering plans to bolster its ranks with Eastern & Southern European recruits. Even though the recruitment drive proposal is primarily aimed at foreign nationals living in Germany, and not from foreign nationals living in their home nations, Polak & Romanian militaries have expressed concern at potential military brain drain. (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-military-foreigners/german-army-floats-plan-to-recruit-foreigners-idUKKCN1OQ13H) Belgium is appealing against an order to repatriate two ISIS convicts, as part of a wider European issue regarding how to deal with home-grown ISIS fighters captured by Syrian security forces & militias (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-security-belgium-syria/belgium-to-appeal-against-order-to-repatriate-islamic-state-families-idUKKCN1OT0HG). In older news, China courted Visegrad group and I only just clocked. (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-easteurope/china-hosts-visegrad-group-calls-them-dynamic-force-in-eu-idUKKBN1GZ0AJ)

Slow news week in Europe. Thank God, let the parties give us brief solace and a good start to 2019!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 30, 2018, 07:28:49 pm

The British Department for Transport has contracted three companies to run ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Two of the companies, receiving ~£95m of the £108m being spent, are European.

The sole British company has never run a ferry service before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 30, 2018, 07:39:54 pm

Tell that to the bloody Spanish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on December 30, 2018, 10:47:20 pm

Long live Soviet Union Mk. II! (https://www.google.com/amp/tass.com/politics/1038666/amp)

Let’s hope there’s less genocide this time!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 31, 2018, 06:47:55 am

Quote from: hector13 on December 30, 2018, 07:28:49 pm

Two of the companies, receiving ~£95m of the £108m being spent, are European.

All of them are European, mate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2018, 07:01:07 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on December 30, 2018, 10:47:20 pm

Long live Soviet Union Mk. II! (https://www.google.com/amp/tass.com/politics/1038666/amp)
Let’s hope there’s less genocide this time!

Russia's ambitions are grand... It's capacity to inspire states to join in not so grand

Quote from: scriver on December 31, 2018, 06:47:55 am

All of them are European, mate.

It is a principle of general relativity that whether the British are British, European or American is entirely dependent upon how angry the observer is

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 31, 2018, 07:08:34 am

I believe the scientific classification is Protoyankee.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 10:39:09 am

I don't get the 'General Who Pacifies The North' reference as nobodys actually named in the article.

As for Poland and Romania worrying about military brain drain, wouldn't that be their problem in the first place because it's their nationals who have already left their country in the first place? Though the article cites military pay as the reason.

Also, the mention about Germany recruiting foriegners made me think of the multiethnic army that the Austrian-Hungary empire had rather than the French Foriegn Legion. Not sure if the connection to colonialism/imperialism is warranted though as foriegners working for militaries not of their own nation is as old as the first kingdoms, whether they're conscripts or mercenaries/sellswords.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 31, 2018, 11:05:31 am

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 10:39:09 am

I don't get the 'General Who Pacifies The North' reference as nobodys actually named in the article.

Usually the go-to reference for the yellow jackets has been the Yellow Turban Rebellion (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion) and its appearances in popular culture, such as the Dynasty Warriors series of games.

"Protectorate General to Pacify the North" was also a military position in ancient Chinese government, but that title apparently only popped up several hundred years after the rebellion was over, so... I'unno. Probably from Dynasty Warriors, and I'm just too much of a scrub to recognize the particular anachronistic scene where someone mentioned it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2018, 11:29:04 am

They seem to want to recruit immigrants... which is not unusual in itself.
I don't know to what extent that will be a successful drive tbh. What are they offering that would make a recruit post in the German army attractive to someone from Poland, Italy or France?
I think there are some gross misunderstandings nd misperceptions about intraeuropean migrations TNH

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2018, 01:56:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 10:39:09 am

I don't get the 'General Who Pacifies The North' reference as nobodys actually named in the article.

As Kagus said, it's a reference to the start of the Romance of Three Kingdoms, where the yellow turban rebellion kickstarts the Han dynasty's downfall to regional warlords. The yellow jackets being dispersed by honest to god cavalry makes it so much more apt

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 10:39:09 am

As for Poland and Romania worrying about military brain drain, wouldn't that be their problem in the first place because it's their nationals who have already left their country in the first place? Though the article cites military pay as the reason.

Their fears centre more around the incentive that the German army would cause to pull further young men, specialists & veterans away from Romania & Poland, and into Germany's armed forces for higher pay, though I'm sure they're also hoping their expats will come home with German training, language skills & capital

Quote from: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 10:39:09 am

Also, the mention about Germany recruiting foriegners made me think of the multiethnic army that the Austrian-Hungary empire had rather than the French Foriegn Legion. Not sure if the connection to colonialism/imperialism is warranted though as foriegners working for militaries not of their own nation is as old as the first kingdoms, whether they're conscripts or mercenaries/sellswords.

Definitely has more in common with the Hapsburg army than the FFL, though if you go back further it wasn't all that uncommon to have Monarchical armies and navies staffed with a vast diaspora of foreign nationals, sometimes large enough to comprise their own armies

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2018, 11:29:04 am

They seem to want to recruit immigrants... which is not unusual in itself.
I don't know to what extent that will be a successful drive tbh. What are they offering that would make a recruit post in the German army attractive to someone from Poland, Italy or France?
I think there are some gross misunderstandings nd misperceptions about intraeuropean migrations TNH

Money, social-advancement and experience. Doubt they'll reach the 10% target but it should nab some people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2018, 02:31:24 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2018, 01:56:36 pm

Money, social-advancement and experience. Doubt they'll reach the 10% target but it should nab some people

Dunno, is the money that good? A quick google search suggests that it's not really much better than entry level military jobs in their home countries... or civilian jobs, for that matter. Likewise: *what* social advancement are they getting out of it? What experience that they wouldn't be getting elsewhere?

I just don't see any of this as likely. And I tend to think tjat if people are reluctant to work abroad they'll be twice as reluctant to work for a foreign military

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 31, 2018, 07:04:42 pm

I and my only intelligent roommate in the army once nearly managed to convince one of our other, less-intelligent roommates that joining the French Foreign Legion was a really good idea.

He was at the "register for an application" page when he realized that they were based in France, and that being able to speak French was probably a plus.

And that he'd need to, y'know, do work.


We were so close.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 02, 2019, 07:00:04 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 31, 2018, 02:31:24 pm

Dunno, is the money that good? A quick google search suggests that it's not really much better than entry level military jobs in their home countries... or civilian jobs, for that matter. Likewise: *what* social advancement are they getting out of it? What experience that they wouldn't be getting elsewhere?

I just don't see any of this as likely. And I tend to think tjat if people are reluctant to work abroad they'll be twice as reluctant to work for a foreign military

Basic German serviceman gets €23,000 annually
Basic Polish serviceman gets zł30,000 annually, equivalent to €7,000 annually

Once you start factoring in Officers, Specialists and bonuses, the disparity in pays increases exponentially. Regarding social advancement, it will depend on the military and the service, but for most in modern services has offered potential for advancement - giving families a foot into technical vocations like medicine, engineering, command of ships or planes, or a leadership post. Regarding experience, military experience is gained in the military. It is not an invalid concern, as Poland for example has a history of significant brain drain in recent years, with loads of their Uni-qualified young workers moving to countries like Germany or the UK to take up unskilled labour despite their able qualifications. Military-orientated Poles may still prefer to serve in a foreign Western military than their own based upon historical experience:

Quote from: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/4592555/Polish-army-launches-drive-to-recruit-Poles-in-the-UK.html

He added that it was important for the Polish armed forces to tell expatriates that the services were no longer the cash-strapped and conscript-based institutions that some Poles, he joked, may have left Poland to avoid.
At the start of the year Poland abandoned conscription and started to pour money into converting its army into a 120,000-strong modern, professional force.
The starting salary for a private now comes to around £472 a month, 13 times more than a conscript received, while specialist skills and combat experience could further increase the monthly pay-packet.
Poland's move away from conscription is in line with a massive overhaul of its armed forces. The country plans to spend some £17 billion by 2018 on modernising its military, which is still burdened by Soviet-era equipment.
Overseas deployment has also put wear and tear on equipment. Poland has 1,200 troops involved in combat operations in Afghanistan: a mission that has stretched the army's resources to the limit.

Quote from: Kagus on December 31, 2018, 07:04:42 pm

I and my only intelligent roommate in the army once nearly managed to convince one of our other, less-intelligent roommates that joining the French Foreign Legion was a really good idea.
He was at the "register for an application" page when he realized that they were based in France, and that being able to speak French was probably a plus.
And that he'd need to, y'know, do work.
We were so close.

How tremendously devilish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 02, 2019, 07:25:50 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 02, 2019, 07:00:04 am

Quote from: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/4592555/Polish-army-launches-drive-to-recruit-Poles-in-the-UK.html

Do note, that article is 10 years old. A lot has changed since then with regard to the quality and desirability both of the army and living in Poland in general. You'll still be earning less than the equivalent pay in Western countries, but the living costs are also proportionally lower, so much of the difference is only on paper.
Besides, the Germans want to recruit expats who are long term residents, and are at least partially naturalised, not some random secondary school graduates from a village outside Warsaw.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 09, 2019, 11:31:50 am

*pokes thread* Nothing exciting happening in Europe?

Have some Brexit drama I guess:

https://www.politico.eu/article/second-defeat-in-2-days-for-theresa-may-at-hands-of-anti-brexit-mps/ (in which a Tory MP gets a bit cheeky with House (of commons) speaker Bercow)

https://www.politico.eu/article/barry-gardiner-labour-will-put-forward-no-confidence-motion-if-may-loses-brexit-vote/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46805269

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on January 09, 2019, 12:33:02 pm

Well, actually, there was just a press release in Norway about how the wife of one of the country's richest men got kidnapped on Halloween and is currently being held ransom for 9 million euros, deliverable in cryptocurrency.

The police just now decided to go public with the statement. Apparently hoping the kidnappers were bluffing when they said that contacting the media or authorities would end with the lady getting whacked.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 09, 2019, 02:26:50 pm

Also in Germany an AFD MEP just got jumped by some unknown lads
UK media is just showing him with a black eye or else just not showing the wounds at all, which is all unsurprising tbqhfamalam. The unedited one shows the extent to which the dude got whacked, the image is spoilered on twitter so the link is sfw, but the spoilered image is graphic (https://twitter.com/Joerg_Meuthen/status/1082405400291536899). It is suspected to be a politically motivated attack to the same extent I suspect the US government was behind the moon landings

Meanwhile in the UK Anna Soubry got called a nazi & a fascist by protestors, so she called the police to arrest the protestors, calling them fascist misogynist racists (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46789601)
You can attack pro-Brexit MPs or campaigners as nazis 24/7 but the moment the shoe is on the other foot "public order is breaking down" lol, bloody nazi naziing nazis "no u'ing" nazis. Top lels at the beeb getting their knickers in a twist about protestors calling Westminster a pedophile infested institution, really gets the noggin joggin (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10949117/Whitehall-child-sex-inquiry-the-114-files-lost.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 09, 2019, 09:36:04 pm

Theresa May loses another vote in the Commons after Tory rebels joined Labour... The Tory rebels this time were pro-EU (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46805269)
What a twist

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2019, 05:03:28 am

Could my confidence in government get any lower?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 05:23:29 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 10, 2019, 05:03:28 am

Could my confidence in government get any lower?

Challenge accepted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 01:02:23 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 10, 2019, 05:03:28 am

Could my confidence in government get any lower?

Well the gov's currently arresting 13 year old girls for protesting lol (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/girl-13-arrested-at-yellow-vests-brexit-protest-1.3749070)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2019, 01:34:32 pm

Mate, we all know that young people who support Brexit are a myth.

This is obviously fake news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 01:42:50 pm

Ah, yes, the 13 year old children. A cohort well known for strong independent thought and reasoned political stances.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2019, 01:51:58 pm

.... I don't think anyone said that 13 year old children make well informed political choices. Though the Scots come pretty darn close with the 16-year-old voting age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 01:59:17 pm

If that wasn't clear, I was driving at how 13 year olds are not as much young people supporting anything, as they are their parent's children tagging along with whatever activism the old geezers are into.

But then again, I also think most 20-somethings know shit all about politics, and the idea of voting age is arbitrary and stupid.

(note: I've acquired this opinion the day after I turned 30)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 06:44:55 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 01:42:50 pm

Ah, yes, the 13 year old children. A cohort well known for strong independent thought and reasoned political stances.

Certainly strong independent thought, my God have you tried controlling any group of 13 year olds

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 06:52:52 pm

I have, as a matter of fact. I taught herded school kids that age for a short while, before I came to my senses. I've come to the realisation that while there are many strong and independent things going on in their heads and elsewhere, thought is not among them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2019, 06:59:32 pm

I'm with Palazzo on this one. Thirteen year olds can certainly have independent thoughts, but in the broad strokes they're heavily influenced by family (even close friends).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 10, 2019, 07:18:43 pm

Epic 13-yo brain be like "hey guys imma punch this cop for no reason" 100/100

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 10, 2019, 07:24:45 pm

Someone I used to hang around with in school decided the best use for a small sign warning drivers of construction was to throw it across the road like a frisbee.

The police in the car they threw it in front of were not amused.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 07:31:08 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 06:52:52 pm

I have, as a matter of fact. I taught herded school kids that age for a short while, before I came to my senses. I've come to the realisation that while there are many strong and independent things going on in their heads and elsewhere, thought is not among them.

I couldn't disagree more tbh, especially when kids start reaching the apex of their rebellious streak and form their sense of personal identity around this age, usually coinciding with a rebellion against personal authority figures. Whether bright or dim as bricks, if they're not thinking for themselves by 13 they're not ever

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 07:43:01 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 10, 2019, 07:40:06 pm

At 13? Rebellious streak apexes at, like, 16 or 17.

At that point they're leaving the house for work & education though, though I suppose it'll vary by geography and culture

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 07:43:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 07:31:08 pm

I couldn't disagree more tbh, especially when kids start reaching the apex of their rebellious streak and form their sense of personal identity around this age, usually coinciding with a rebellion against personal authority figures. Whether bright or dim as bricks, if they're not thinking for themselves by 13 they're not ever

They're getting rebellious, but their critical thinking ability is by and large still a flatline. Let alone knowledge and experience to draw on.
If you think being contrarian is thinking for oneself, then... I don't know what happens then. Persistent disagreement perhaps?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2019, 07:53:20 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2019, 07:43:35 pm

They're getting rebellious, but their critical thinking ability is by and large still a flatline. Let alone knowledge and experience to draw on.
If you think being contrarian is thinking for oneself, then... I don't know what happens then. Persistent disagreement perhaps?

Knowing things, having lived things, agreeing or disagreeing are all not the same as having strong independent thought, whilst critical thinking could be entirely absent in a teenager still endowed with strong independent thought. It would be as easily demonstrated as any child possessing their own ideas, ambitions, notions and so forth, that it can diverge from their personal authority figures is not independent thought, merely a sign that the source of their action is themselves - not a reaction to external agents.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 11, 2019, 05:18:14 am

I completely agree that people are not the Borg.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 11, 2019, 06:43:36 am

I dunno, if it is any people that are the Borg it is 13 year olds. They're basically a friend hivemind. Do my friends think this? Then I think it too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 11, 2019, 09:46:02 am

At this rate, you guys are going to work yourselves up into hysterics when Brexit crashes through. (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-police-advise-shops-to-hire-extra-security-for-no-deal-brexit/) Sure, there are legit concerns to be worried about, but what if things aren't as problematic as they are predicted?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2019, 10:33:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 11, 2019, 09:46:02 am

At this rate, you guys are going to work yourselves up into hysterics when Brexit crashes through. (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-police-advise-shops-to-hire-extra-security-for-no-deal-brexit/) Sure, there are legit concerns to be worried about, but what if things aren't as problematic as they are predicted?

The Sky will fall, the Sun will go dark, the Standard will drop, the Metro will no longer function, the end Times will begin, who will guard the Guardian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on January 11, 2019, 02:53:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2019, 10:33:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 11, 2019, 09:46:02 am

At this rate, you guys are going to work yourselves up into hysterics when Brexit crashes through. (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-police-advise-shops-to-hire-extra-security-for-no-deal-brexit/) Sure, there are legit concerns to be worried about, but what if things aren't as problematic as they are predicted?

The Sky will fall, the Sun will go dark, the Standard will drop, the Metro will no longer function, the end Times will begin, who will guard the Guardian?

Shouldn't King Arthur be returning about now to aid Britain in its time of need?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 11, 2019, 04:20:44 pm

Quote from: A Thing on January 11, 2019, 02:53:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2019, 10:33:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 11, 2019, 09:46:02 am

At this rate, you guys are going to work yourselves up into hysterics when Brexit crashes through. (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-police-advise-shops-to-hire-extra-security-for-no-deal-brexit/) Sure, there are legit concerns to be worried about, but what if things aren't as problematic as they are predicted?

The Sky will fall, the Sun will go dark, the Standard will drop, the Metro will no longer function, the end Times will begin, who will guard the Guardian?

Shouldn't King Arthur be returning about now to aid Britain in its time of need?

That's only after the Brexit deadline, regardless of outcome.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on January 11, 2019, 07:47:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 11, 2019, 10:33:49 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 11, 2019, 09:46:02 am

At this rate, you guys are going to work yourselves up into hysterics when Brexit crashes through. (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-police-advise-shops-to-hire-extra-security-for-no-deal-brexit/) Sure, there are legit concerns to be worried about, but what if things aren't as problematic as they are predicted?

The Sky will fall, the Sun will go dark, the Standard will drop, the Metro will no longer function, the end Times will begin, who will guard the Guardian?

So long as the tea supply remains, we shall overcome.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 12, 2019, 12:00:17 am

What if it's dumped in the harbour? Again?!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 12, 2019, 12:02:34 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 12, 2019, 12:00:17 am

What if it's dumped in the harbour? Again?!?

Then we'll enslave America again, just like old times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 12, 2019, 09:13:56 am

Time to go dredge Boston harbour for cheap tea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 12, 2019, 06:42:46 pm

I'll leave this here    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1084070653496623106

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 14, 2019, 08:54:54 am

The president-mayor of Gdańsk has died today after being stabbed onstage during a charity yesterday. The killer then shouted to the crowd about how the main opposition party (of which the president-mayor was a member of) was to blame for the attack and how he was tortured whilst in prison.


EDIT: Currently, the right-wing is claiming that the left-leaning (though by far not leftist) charity leader, Jurek Owsiak is to blame. Some have already called the assasination a patriotic act.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 14, 2019, 10:43:43 am

Sounds like Polish politics are pretty polarized

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 14, 2019, 11:05:57 am

Not sure if an intentional attempt at a Polish pun, but yes, they certainly are.

As polarized as things are over here in the US, at least we haven't gotten to the point where an assassination (attempt or otherwise) is being called patriotic by one side or the other. Finger pointing does happen, yes, but that particular line hasn't been crossed yet.

edit: Is it politicians that are saying that it's patriotic or is it random people saying that it's patriotic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 14, 2019, 11:44:01 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 14, 2019, 10:43:43 am

Sounds like Polish politics are pretty polarized

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Quote from: smjjames on January 14, 2019, 11:05:57 am

edit: Is it politicians that are saying that it's patriotic or is it random people saying that it's patriotic?

Much like what seem to be half of the world over the past few years, we too have been drifting towards embracing our inner Nazi. But it's not yet at the Literal Hitler level.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 14, 2019, 12:50:01 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 14, 2019, 11:44:01 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 14, 2019, 10:43:43 am

Sounds like Polish politics are pretty polarized

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Yeah, it's a quite polemical issue, I'd say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 14, 2019, 01:18:02 pm

Quick! Pun pyramid detected! Bay12 assemble!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 14, 2019, 01:22:56 pm

It's mostly local shitposters admiring the murder. Politicians are wise enough not to try and embrace outright killings as political tools.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 14, 2019, 02:37:03 pm

Update on the murder:
The All-Polish Youth had apparently sent the victim and other local politicians certficates of death before that. They are also an organisation known for hanging pictures and portraits of their political opponents. This is an old way of saying that someone was to be executed but could not be reached... now.

Naturally, those good-natured boys are in full damage control mode, denying any complicity in the public execution of an elected representative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on January 14, 2019, 02:38:38 pm

Sounds like they're All Polish...

And no substance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 14, 2019, 04:14:30 pm

Czech mate?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 14, 2019, 04:20:44 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 14, 2019, 02:37:03 pm

Update on the murder:
The All-Polish Youth had apparently sent the victim and other local politicians certficates of death before that. They are also an organisation known for hanging pictures and portraits of their political opponents. This is an old way of saying that someone was to be executed but could not be reached... now.

Naturally, those good-natured boys are in full damage control mode, denying any complicity in the public execution of an elected representative.

Sounds like they are pretty ambivalent... almost... bipolar?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 14, 2019, 05:09:53 pm

Not really ambivalent. It's more like they're scurrying to paint themselves as being poles apart from the inflammatory rhetoric they were espousing just moments before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on January 14, 2019, 05:52:09 pm

People, please. Pause this preposterous publication of political pole puns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on January 14, 2019, 05:57:52 pm

Warning: alliteration is broken by "this" and "of".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 14, 2019, 06:06:31 pm

No it's not. "David's dogs ate Derek" is still alliterative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 14, 2019, 06:10:23 pm

Maybe we should take a poll?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 14, 2019, 06:17:25 pm

No need. The Cambridge Dictionary does the deed of deciding matters.

Quote

the use, especially in poetry, of the same sound or sounds, especially consonants, at the beginning of several words that are close together:

"Round the rugged rocks the ragged rascal ran"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 14, 2019, 10:39:42 pm

Quote from: Ispil on January 14, 2019, 06:27:50 pm

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

buffalo from Buffalo (that buffalo from Buffalo “buffalo”) “buffalo” buffalo from Buffalo.
lowercase is animal, uppercase is city, in quotes is verb

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 15, 2019, 06:36:58 am

It’s a vicious cycle for buffalo. Why isn’t Buffalo doing anything to solve the problem? #StopBuffaloBuffalo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 15, 2019, 06:56:01 am

they can't decide on whether to stop the buffalo or the buffalo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2019, 08:39:58 am

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 14, 2019, 02:37:03 pm

Update on the murder:
The All-Polish Youth had apparently sent the victim and other local politicians certficates of death before that. They are also an organisation known for hanging pictures and portraits of their political opponents. This is an old way of saying that someone was to be executed but could not be reached... now.

Naturally, those good-natured boys are in full damage control mode, denying any complicity in the public execution of an elected representative.

*Assassination, public execution still implies a degree of polelitical legitimacy; alternatively, the assassins misinterpreted the meaning of polish remover when doing their nails

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 15, 2019, 09:34:17 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2019, 08:39:58 am

*Assassination, public execution still implies a degree of polelitical legitimacy; alternatively, the assassins misinterpreted the meaning of polish remover when doing their nails

There's a historical/cultural reason behind such choice of words.
During the WWII the Polish Underground State (i.e. the resistance) maintained continuity of political and governmental structures of pre-war Poland, including the judicial branch with the so-called Special Courts. These were intended for prosecution of common criminals (since the Germans were a bit slapdash about that), collaborators, and occasionally occupants.
This of course meant that the defendant was more often than not judged and sentenced in absentia, before being 'executed' when the opportunity arises.
That is to say, from the point of view of the occupying Germans, these were assassinations by partisans. From the point of view of Poles, these were executions by the Polish state.

The All-Polish Youth and the likes of them (basically, our version of alt-right) want to paint themselves as a structure similar to the WWII underground, currently being suppressed by their bogeyman (occupant) of progressives, the EU, and whatnot. One of the easiest ways to spot a likely alt-righter is by their apparel - they do love their WWII-themed patriotic clothing (google 'Polska walcząca bluza' for examples).
Anyway, threatening with 'execution' is meant to reinforce this association with the legitimate patriotic government under occupation by basically Nazis. Any Pole who hasn't completely flatlined in school would pick up on that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on January 15, 2019, 11:29:28 am

Quote from: Ispil on January 14, 2019, 06:27:50 pm

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Technically, any number of buffalo over three make a grammatically correct sentence in english.

This is why we need esperento

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 15, 2019, 09:34:17 am

The irony of "nationalists" and "patriots" being litteral traitors, turning against their countries the weapons meant to defend it, is not lost on me, but I'm still appalled by how common this is. We have similar guys here in France, waving national flags while attacking the symbols of the Republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 15, 2019, 11:33:05 am

Best one is Police, since:
You have police, and police who police the police, or police police.
And they are policed others, the police police police.
But they get policed by the police police police police.

Any chain that is exclusively 1-N instances of the word police is grammatically correct.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 11:51:42 am

The unbroken chain is what makes the buffalo chain what it is though.

In case everybody forgot, today is the make-or-break day for Theresa May (https://www.politico.eu/article/how-to-watch-the-brexit-vote-like-a-pro-theresa-may-parliament-no-deal/). The vote is going to be about 7 PM local (around noon for the US, 11am-1pm by timezone) and whatever happens, it's gonna throw a huge wrench in the Brexit plans and stuff.

Incidentially, I just realized that Tropico 6 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/492720/Tropico_6/) is releasing on the same date that Brexit crashes through. Just a coincidential thing I noticed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 11:55:19 am

Quote

The unbroken chain is what makes the buffalo chain what it is though

In *knowing* the teachings of Zerthimon I have become stronger

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 15, 2019, 11:56:01 am

Vote La Prima Ministra, or else...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 01:09:36 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 15, 2019, 11:56:01 am

Vote La Prima Ministra, or else...

vote for your sinister cousin or else?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on January 15, 2019, 02:23:05 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 11:55:19 am

Quote

The unbroken chain is what makes the buffalo chain what it is though

In *knowing* the teachings of Zerthimon I have become stronger

It is *known*.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2019, 02:33:59 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 01:09:36 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 15, 2019, 11:56:01 am

Vote La Prima Ministra, or else...

vote for your sinister cousin or else?

Surprise, it's the mafia, otter muckers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 02:46:41 pm

May's deal lost 202 to 432.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 15, 2019, 02:48:00 pm

Biggest government defeat in history, according to the Beeb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 02:49:05 pm

Theresa May got defeated, HARD, 432 to 202 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46885828). Said to be the biggest UK government defeat in modern history.

Ninjad by being slow, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 02:49:14 pm

A divided mind is an unfocused mind. A divided mind fractures walls and weakens stone. Many divided minds may destroy a city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 02:51:25 pm

Aaand Corbyn tabled a no confidence motion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 02:51:46 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 15, 2019, 02:48:00 pm

Biggest government defeat in history, according to the Beeb.

In modern history at least, or in living memory.

Labor has also already announced a motion for a vote of no confidence.

Going by the BBC live feed, the DUP is backing the confidence vote, but I doubt that'll help much as I imagine that they probably voted for the deal that May just tried to do.

It also sounds like May will table another deal (which isn't much different) on monday? She's risking another massive no vote with that.

Also, the SNP is basically calling for a second referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 03:05:59 pm

She has to. She must present plan B in 3 days

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 15, 2019, 03:07:05 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 01:09:36 pm

Quote from: SaberToothTiger on January 15, 2019, 11:56:01 am

Vote La Prima Ministra, or else...

vote for your sinister cousin or else?

https://imgur.com/gallery/an6CKgk (https://imgur.com/gallery/an6CKgk)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 15, 2019, 03:09:25 pm

I have no idea what's going on, but I was expecting the no confidence motion to be debated, like, now. Ah well, I guess I have to wait until tomorrow.

I'm not sure what's going to happen. After this massive defeat you would expect the government to lose a no confidence vote, but the DUP say they have her back, which means there has to be Tory rebels voting against her to make that go ahead, while the Tory's own no confidence vote passed with her staying in power so...

wtf happens if she wins?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 03:19:59 pm

By how much did she pass her own parties confidence vote though? They might have their own reasons for voting for confidence within the party but not the government as a whole.

As for what happens if she manages to win a confidence vote, I’d guess the same gridlock and impasse as has been happening?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2019, 03:26:27 pm

Quote

Also, the SNP is basically calling for a second referendum.

Lol, classic SNP bants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 03:27:55 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 03:19:59 pm

By how much did she pass her own parties confidence vote though?

Not a whole lot. IIRC it was less than a hundred votes of difference

Quote

They might have their own reasons for voting for confidence within the party but not the government as a whole.

That's... unlikely. The private conservative vote is private. If they publically voted with the opposition to bring down their own goverment it wouldn't go well for them. In Europe party lines are far less permeable than in the US, and in fact in many European nations there are penalties (either direct or indirect) for voting in discordance with your party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 03:42:19 pm

Heh. I read a while ago that the problem with doing a second referendum is that the question isn't yes or no anymore, it's do you want soft/hard/no brexit, if yes brexit, do you want this, do you want that, it would end up looking like a decision tree or a flowchart, or maybe it should just be a written/typed form saying what do you want out of brexit.

Sure, they could go for a simple yes/no question, but it's still not going to solve the details.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 03:27:55 pm

Quote from: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 03:19:59 pm

By how much did she pass her own parties confidence vote though?

Not a whole lot. IIRC it was less than a hundred votes of difference

Quote

They might have their own reasons for voting for confidence within the party but not the government as a whole.

That's... unlikely. The private conservative vote is private. If they publically voted with the opposition to bring down their own goverment it wouldn't go well for them. In Europe party lines are far less permeable than in the US, and in fact in many European nations there are penalties (either direct or indirect) for voting in discordance with your party

How do you get things done then if it's so inflexible? Not that the US Congress is being such a shining example.

Anyhow, given that logic, the DUP most likely voted for Mays proposal and given that a good chunk of rebel Tories must have voted in discordance with the party, it probably won't help a huge lot. Nvm, I did the math (helped by BBCs breakdown of who voted for what, and even with the DUP, they'd still have a very slim margin, but that assumes ALL of the Tory rebels side with her and everybody else votes against.

Given that they've already decided to revolt, nothings really stopping them from voting against party line. If she loses more than a handfull, she loses the confidence vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 03:54:10 pm

118 of the 317 conservative MPs voted against the deal. Division of the 202 yes-votes: 196 Conservatives, 3 independents and 3 Labour. (https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/562?byMember=false#noes)

May won the December's confidence vote 200 to 117. Possibly the same people voted against her again, and if so, I'm pretty confident there's no confidence tomorrow.
They don't have to vote against their own government, they can just abstain/not show up, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 03:55:48 pm

Yes, but there is a difference between an internal party disagreement and voting with the actual rival party. 

Quote

How do you get things done then if it's so inflexible?

More than two parties in most European nations. Things  are done by multiple parties making deals for common positions. Eg: see the DUP - Tory "confidence and supply" deal.

But crucially the deals are done by the party
Ies leaderships, not (normally) by rogue MPs.  Even then an alliance with the wrong people can have a steep price if your bases dont like it. Eg: German Socialdemocrats basically blew themselves up by supporting Merkel's (conservative) goverment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 15, 2019, 04:06:12 pm

I was making a mild joke at you guys with that comment.

Quote from: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 03:54:10 pm

118 of the 317 conservative MPs voted against the deal. Division of the 202 yes-votes: 196 Conservatives, 3 independents and 3 Labour. (https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/562?byMember=false#noes)

May won the December's confidence vote 200 to 117. Possibly the same people voted against her again, and if so, I'm pretty confident there's no confidence tomorrow.
They don't have to vote against their own government, they can just abstain/not show up, right?

The thing though is that if everybody else votes against Theresa May (even those 6 breakaways from ind and labor), she would win by a slim margin and couldn't afford to lose any votes from her side.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 04:20:35 pm

Well, for the record, I don't like that there are only two parties in the US, functionally, but I do think that in ,any ways the dynamics are healthier than Europe. It's noteworthy that in Spain, for instance, the ones proposing adopting the US system of open primaries are on the left of the political spectrum

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on January 15, 2019, 04:50:27 pm

So what's next for Britain? And is it or is it not time to start investing in Ron Paul memes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 05:02:23 pm

I am thr parliament  https://youtu.be/_XWomD6TazQ

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Yoink on January 15, 2019, 05:03:10 pm

Wow, the UK apparently kinda sucks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 05:08:21 pm

Both DUP and European Research Group (conservative hard-Brexiters) have pledged their support for May tomorrow. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/15/theresa-may-landmark-brexit-defeat-what-happens-now-no-confidence) So there can be confidence after all.

Apparently, now that the deal that was reached after a year and a half of negotiations was handily defeated, May is in a better position to negotiate a better Brexit. How it will be better (harder/softer/higher/lower/lefter/righter/upper/downer/fishier/meatier/veggier/bluer/redder/technicolor/grayscale/whistling/humming...) depends on who you ask.

@Misko27: The Brexit merry-go-round continues on its merry way. Brexit memes still a safe investment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on January 15, 2019, 05:14:17 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on January 15, 2019, 05:08:21 pm

Both DUP and European Research Group (conservative hard-Brexiters) have pledged their support for May tomorrow. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/15/theresa-may-landmark-brexit-defeat-what-happens-now-no-confidence) So there can be confidence after all.

But what if the Tories get confused and vote themselves out?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on January 15, 2019, 06:54:00 pm

Spoiler: But on a scale from "It's over" to "It hasn't even begun", how much is it currently Happening? (click to show/hide)

(http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/27802896/images/1382081812829.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 15, 2019, 08:37:19 pm

They've been wildly fluctuating between "You Asked For This" and "It's Too Late" ever since the referendum passed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2019, 11:05:28 pm

We are not yet on the scale, if we were, it would be too late

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 16, 2019, 01:03:35 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 15, 2019, 04:20:35 pm

Well, for the record, I don't like that there are only two parties in the US, functionally, but I do think that in ,any ways the dynamics are healthier than Europe. It's noteworthy that in Spain, for instance, the ones proposing adopting the US system of open primaries are on the left of the political spectrum

How would "open primaries" work in the Spanish system? Do Spain not have a personal vote/naming system? For example, if I want to make sure a certain person gets into the Realmsday, I just write their name on my vote. If they get enough votes, the party has to seat him. Do Spain not have something equivalent or similar?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2019, 10:36:27 am

Theresa May loses historic commons vote again (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46885828)

StRONg AnD StaBLE

*EDIT
Hmmmmmm my local MP supported Remain but voted to kill the deal, seems Labour is rallying around Corby

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2019, 10:55:54 am

Not sure why you're repeating yesterdays news, but anyways... The no-confidence vote is supposed to be soon. They're saying that she is expected to survive the no-confidence vote, but still....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2019, 10:57:30 am

corby's doin the gov shuffle

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 12:01:31 pm

Quote

The SNP’s Pete Wishart asks what will Labour’s Brexit policy be if there is an election: will it be for Brexit or against?
Corbyn says Labour is a democratic party. The party will decide

Seriously? His Brexit policy is not having a policy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2019, 12:25:45 pm

I think he meant he'd defer to his party on deciding what to do? Though in the article LW linked above, a Labor MP says that 'an overwhelming majority' want a second referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 16, 2019, 12:35:03 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 12:01:31 pm

Quote

The SNP’s Pete Wishart asks what will Labour’s Brexit policy be if there is an election: will it be for Brexit or against?
Corbyn says Labour is a democratic party. The party will decide

Seriously? His Brexit policy is not having a policy?

He's pro-brexit but is about to do a no-confidence vote on a very small margin and cant afford to alienate any anti-brexit labour members is what I take from that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2019, 01:20:29 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 12:01:31 pm

Quote

The SNP’s Pete Wishart asks what will Labour’s Brexit policy be if there is an election: will it be for Brexit or against?
Corbyn says Labour is a democratic party. The party will decide

Seriously? His Brexit policy is not having a policy?

There's ambiguity in referring to the 'party,' whether he'll defer to Labour party members (their public support), Labour union members or Labour MPs, and if Labour MPs which Labour MPs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 01:40:39 pm

It's political cowardice.... something you see a lot with populists of all stripes. In this particular case: since he doesn't want to say he is either in favor or against brexit or a second ref, he plays the "I'll put it up to a vote" card. Which
- is the opposite of leadership
- can be easily manipulated by deputizing whichever group you think is likely to say they want what you want... whichever that is.


In Spain Pablo Iglesias does this a lot. To ridiculous extremes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2019, 01:50:56 pm

I wonder if some Sinn Fein members wish they had a voice in this proccess (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/46874049?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5c3f7898bbde15067cf8025f%26Sinn%20Fein%20MLA%3A%20Hard%20Brexit%20will%20%27reverse%20peace%20progress%27%262019-01-16T18%3A38%3A11.788Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:45eed3d0-6818-4f1b-ba5f-57a4523c47f6&pinned_post_asset_id=5c3f7898bbde15067cf8025f&pinned_post_type=share) because they really could have helped shape the whole thing given that it's the DUP that want the hard border, but Sinn Fein doesn't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 02:00:35 pm

 :P .... somehow I don't think they'll drop their decades-old policy to help out the British goverment  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 16, 2019, 02:21:16 pm

Well she won.

I don’t fucking understand politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: andrea on January 16, 2019, 02:30:43 pm

Think of it like this: if she is evicted, whoever does the evicting has to be in charge, and be held responsible of, the ensuing mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 16, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46899466 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46899466)

May wins the No-confidence vote by 19 votes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 16, 2019, 02:36:17 pm

They wouldn't be held responsible for the mess though. Just point to the vote yesterday and the context around it, that's who and what is responsible.

It boggles my mind that a third of her party can say that the one thing she was expected (realistically or not) to get right was not right, but that this is okay despite her insistence that nothing else will work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2019, 02:40:51 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on January 16, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46899466 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46899466)

May wins the No-confidence vote by 19 votes

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/tkG1IWL.jpg)

The Anglo is Eternal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on January 16, 2019, 04:26:54 pm

Quote from: andrea on January 16, 2019, 02:30:43 pm

Think of it like this: if she is evicted, whoever does the evicting has to be in charge, and be held responsible of, the ensuing mess.

If only britan could very obviously and publically have nobody at the steering wheel like us americans. Nobody for the public to blame if nobody does anything!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 16, 2019, 08:06:09 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 01:40:39 pm

It's political cowardice.... something you see a lot with populists of all stripes. In this particular case: since he doesn't want to say he is either in favor or against brexit or a second ref, he plays the "I'll put it up to a vote" card. Which
- is the opposite of leadership
- can be easily manipulated by deputizing whichever group you think is likely to say they want what you want... whichever that is.


In Spain Pablo Iglesias does this a lot. To ridiculous extremes.

How is it cowardice to not intentionally make a bad decision? Nobody wants to deal with the Brexit paradox, waiting as many years as possible for cancer and winter oil rations to claim Brexiteers is 100% the right call.

Besides, everybody knows Corbyn is going to go for the socialist Brexit once Lizzie consumes Wheatfield for her life energies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2019, 08:23:29 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 16, 2019, 08:06:09 pm

How is it cowardice to not intentionally make a bad decision? Nobody wants to deal with the Brexit paradox, waiting as many years as possible for cancer and winter oil rations to claim Brexiteers is 100% the right call.

Besides, everybody knows Corbyn is going to go for the socialist Brexit once Lizzie consumes Wheatfield for her life energies.

It is cowardice to remain in ambiguous indecisiveness for mercenary gain in lieu of making an actual choice as a party leader must do; it is comparable to Theresa May answering questions about her Brexit policy with 'brexit means brexit.' Such non-answers are deliberately nothing so they can buy time to collect information and figure out which side can secure their personal career, this is however to the detriment of the party and nation in question. When used in conjunction with a general election, it is a nifty way to dupe voters into assuming their leader supports their policy choice, whilst in actuality will act against their interests once elected. It is also incorrect to state that there is no one who wishes to deal with Brexit; Jeremy Corbyn is himself one who wishes to, whilst the Conservative party has a few such as David Davis or JRM who would take the mantle were it allowed by their party. When Jeremy Corbyn was less relevant, and more able to speak his mind, he spent his life critical of the EU. In the EU referendum, he continued to speak against the EU as a Thatcherite monstrosity, but lauded its capacity to unite European socialist movements to form continent-wide reform. After the referendum, he said he disagreed with the outcome but that it should be implemented as soon as possible. From this my impression is he is consistent, but is also cognizant of the number of times Labour party MPs have tried to remove him from power. Given that many Labour members voted leave, whilst the Labour MPs voted Remain and want a second referendum, he is adopting politician speak so that whoever he pisses off, he will not be accountable - as after all, he made no decision on the matter.

It's a classic battle between Blairish liberals and socialists (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-final-say-referendum-jeremy-corbyn-vote-eu-theresa-may-labour-party-a8731766.html) garnished with liberal Tory nonsense (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/theresa-may-fails-to-reach-out-to-jeremy-corbyn-to-strike-brexit-compromise) which is likely having a profound effect on the normally outspoken politician. One hopes that this is not a trend, as one of the things which made Corbyn endearing in the first place was his willingness to speak in favour of what he truly believed in regardless of its popularity or unpopularity...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2019, 08:31:02 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2019, 02:00:35 pm

:P .... somehow I don't think they'll drop their decades-old policy to help out the British goverment  :P

Well, they wouldn't be helping the government per se, just having their own voice in the whole Brexit mess.

Heres a thought that could help solve it, maybe instead of this, what, trilateral (maybe quadrilateral if you have RoI in) thing going on, they can instead have NI and Ireland discuss the border issue separately, would make it less complicated. Or maybe have it be between NI and the EU.

It might not be politically feaseable due to how things are set up, but since the problem is three different parties who can't come to an agreement and are possibly talking past each other, the idea is to simplify things so that talks on the specific issue is between those most directly involved, namely RoI and NI. NI has a degree of autonomy, right? That goes into the idea as well.

I know Sinn Fein would probably push an independence/reunification attempt, but this is over a very specific issue. Incidentially, I saw somewhere that the reunification option is an available fourth option (provided by the Good Friday Agreement) which nobody seems to have been considering or got talked about as an option. Maybe after Brexit crashes through (once the initial anger and frustration has cooled down some, at least), it could get considered, no idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 16, 2019, 09:26:06 pm

They won’t do that because then the SNP will get all pissed off they don’t have that option.

I’m also reasonably sure the GFA mentions unification vis a vis public support, which would require a referendum. It’s maybe too early to be thinking of that since Theresa May’s deal is dead, and she’s been pushing that so hard I find it tremendously unlikely she’ll have a plan B ready for March 29th, never mind Friday, as per the recently passed amendment in parlament.

Never mind thinking of a referendum as it relates to decades of unrest and hatred between the two sides. It’s not a feasible option unless someone finds concrete evidence Brexit is going to break reality or something.

I eagerly await May’s next idea though. Should be fascinating what she can come up with in two days that she wasn’t able to figure out in two years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 16, 2019, 10:48:32 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 16, 2019, 09:26:06 pm

They won’t do that because then the SNP will get all pissed off they don’t have that option.

The option of negotiating a separate deal? Still though, the point is to try and get past the impasse. Talking about reunification in the middle of Brexit would be the wrong time to do it, which is why I said after things have cooled off, if there is the support for it.

They still have the option of letting Brexit crash through, roll the dice and pray to the RNG gods, and try to contain the aftermath.

Quote from: hector13 on January 16, 2019, 09:26:06 pm

I’m also reasonably sure the GFA mentions unification vis a vis public support, which would require a referendum. It’s maybe too early to be thinking of that since Theresa May’s deal is dead, and she’s been pushing that so hard I find it tremendously unlikely she’ll have a plan B ready for March 29th, never mind Friday, as per the recently passed amendment in parlament.

Never mind thinking of a referendum as it relates to decades of unrest and hatred between the two sides. It’s not a feasible option unless someone finds concrete evidence Brexit is going to break reality or something.

I eagerly await May’s next idea though. Should be fascinating what she can come up with in two days that she wasn’t able to figure out in two years.

Last I read, May was going to put a new one out on Monday, so, theres a bit more time than that, but your point still stands. I also read in the same article that they weren't making any big changes, just tweaks here and there, which isn't likely to change much...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 17, 2019, 06:46:18 am

Disclaimer: Not intended to be a condemnation or commendation so much as an observation.

Something I think Corbyn has struggled with since becoming Party Leader is balancing his own thoughts and opinions with those of the party he represents. He wasn't exactly groomed for the position, so I can see how an 'outsider' to leadership would struggle with that.

When he's acting as Leader of the Labour Party, the question is always which hat should he be wearing? Should he speak his mind on issues or should be speaking as the Labour Policy mind? When he was first elected he did the former a lot more, and I can't help but think that around the last general election he shifted to doing the latter more. His election to Party Leader has moved Labour's policy position somewhat, but it hasn't moved so much as to be in complete alignment with his own.

Like how he's stated before that he is a Republican and thinks we should abolish the monarchy (which I happen to agree with but that's a whole other argument*) or that Britain should denuclearise, but the Labour Party doesn't have those things as official policy.

And then you have a topic like Brexit, where the big broad church political parties are already split down the middle, and your against a leader who is bullishly trying to force their opinions through their party and failing miserably at that, well...Would you like to play a nice game of chess instead?

* Mine is just that it's just kinda silly to have a Queen in 2019. You can go back and forth on the economics and whether others can do that and whether they cost more than they bring in and that all you like, people have. But...I always come back to, "Yeah but it's the future now and we still have a hereditary royal family imbued by a god that most of their subjects don't believe in (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/04/half-uk-population-has-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey) to rule over the land. Doesn't that just seem daft to anybody else?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 17, 2019, 06:00:10 pm

Mitary reservists have been put on standby in case of no deal (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46910535).

Better late than never for making plans for this, I guess?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 07:05:19 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on January 17, 2019, 06:46:18 am

* Mine is just that it's just kinda silly to have a Queen in 2019. You can go back and forth on the economics and whether others can do that and whether they cost more than they bring in and that all you like, people have. But...I always come back to, "Yeah but it's the future now and we still have a hereditary royal family imbued by a god that most of their subjects don't believe in (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/04/half-uk-population-has-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey) to rule over the land. Doesn't that just seem daft to anybody else?"

Yo, convinced republican, antimonarchist,  with a special dislike for the Bourbons here. I have a question: so in the UK monarchists also market the monarchy as being cheaper than republics?
Far from my intention to meddle into the politics of other nations, but if it resembles in any way the Spanish monarchy's gambit (which isn't necessarily true, as the Bourbons stand up as particularily sleazy as far as inbred European nobility goes), there are a lot of costs that fall outside the "official" accounts.

Mind you, as I said, I'm a republican by principle. If I were British, or Dutch, I'd be a British or Dutch republican. I don't think heads of state should inherit the role. I don't have anything personal against Elizabeth Windsor and I have a certain sympathy for healthy active elderly people. Likewise, I have nothing personal against Rania of Jordan, I think her humanitarian work is praiseworthy, plus I kind of had a crush on her as a kid. If either walked into my workplace I'd treat them respectfully... but I'd not hide that I dont believe in monarchies if asked. In a polite manner of course.

I mention this because the same does not apply to Philip of Bourbon, his father, or most of his family (though I do kind of pity the dowager queen for being married to her openly unfaithful husband for decades). If the little shit dropped in for a photo-op I'd probably do my best to avoid that shit because I think I'd be unable to shake the asshat's hand without grimacing. I loathe that guy.

(Truth to be told as years have passed I've become more attached to my home region and culture rather than to the whole country.  )

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 17, 2019, 07:20:33 pm

Quote

If either walked into my workplace I'd treat them respectfully... but I'd not hide that I dont believe in monarchies if asked. In a polite manner of course.

From my point of view, "Elizabeth Windsor" is deserving of respect. This, in my current definition, is something different from what you label 'respect', which I would term 'be polite towards'.

She's a deserving symbol of the nation who has spent most of her life in public service, among many other things. Her title lends her more gravitas, has greater implications, than "old lady who I like because she's healthy." It means more, and if you don't feel it personally, you have to admit that a great many people do; I would even suggest most.

The following sums it up:
I would be polite to Elizabeth Windsor, as I would be polite to anyone who seems deserving of it.
I would respect the Queen.

That being said, there are some who are not deserving of being that symbol, and whose character is not suited to it. Many see Trump as just one such.

Alas, we must separate person from position and simply be glad that there do exist those who are worthy of their place.

If Elizabeth Windsor were a disreputable lay about who stole candy from kids, I'd sum my argument up as follows:

I would not be polite to Elizabeth Windsor, as I would not be polite to anyone not deserving of it.
I would respect the Queen.

The issue being that that respect entails politeness unless in private, but ah well. Even a public meeting isn't hugely likely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 17, 2019, 07:54:19 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 07:05:19 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on January 17, 2019, 06:46:18 am

* Mine is just that it's just kinda silly to have a Queen in 2019. You can go back and forth on the economics and whether others can do that and whether they cost more than they bring in and that all you like, people have. But...I always come back to, "Yeah but it's the future now and we still have a hereditary royal family imbued by a god that most of their subjects don't believe in (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/04/half-uk-population-has-no-religion-british-social-attitudes-survey) to rule over the land. Doesn't that just seem daft to anybody else?"

Yo, convinced republican, antimonarchist,  with a special dislike for the Bourbons here. I have a question: so in the UK monarchists also market the monarchy as being cheaper than republics?
Far from my intention to meddle into the politics of other nations, but if it resembles in any way the Spanish monarchy's gambit (which isn't necessarily true, as the Bourbons stand up as particularily sleazy as far as inbred European nobility goes), there are a lot of costs that fall outside the "official" accounts.

Anti-monarchist on principle here because American, but other than preferring republic over monarchy, I don't have a strong opinion towards (or against) the UKs brand of monarchy. As for the UK monarchists saying cheaper than republics, the argument in general, as I understand it, is that the monarchy is expensive because nobles, yadda, yadda and it's a net drain, but the monarchists say that it's not even that expensive and it pays for itself in various ways. Might be a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist of the argument.

As for the Windsors having the same gambit as the Bourbons, not sure if you realize the difference in power that they have in their respective countries as there is no way that the British monarchy would be able to get away with the kind of shit I've heard you say that the Spanish monarchy gets away with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 08:00:49 pm

Quote

Anti-monarchist on principle here because American, but other than preferring republic over monarchy, I don't have a strong opinion towards (or against) the UKs brand of monarchy. As for the UK monarchists saying cheaper than republics, the argument in general, as I understand it, is that the monarchy is expensive because nobles, yadda, yadda and it's a net drain, but the monarchists say that it's not even that expensive and it pays for itself in various ways. Might be a bit of an oversimplification, but that's the gist of the argument.

Spanish monarchists are very fond of claiming the monarchy is CHEAPER than republican goverments. This is based in a highly spurious published budget of the royal family that, for a start, doesn't include all the stuff (palaces, yatches, etc...) that officially belongs to the "National Heritage Board (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrimonio_Nacional)" but are actually for the exclusive disposal of the royal family. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, and not going into their obvious corruption, or their brokering of deals with some of the worst dictatorships in the world.

Quote

As for the Windsors having the same gambit as the Bourbons, not sure if you realize the difference in power that they have in their respective countries as there is no way that the British monarchy would be able to get away with the kind of shit I've heard you say that the Spanish monarchy gets away with.

I have no idea. That's why I ask as to whether they're claiming the same crap as Spanish monarchists - that somehow maintaining a royal family and all their trappings is cheaper than having a president.

Like I said, I'm a republican as a matter of principle, regardless of how disgusting I find the royal family in Spain. If I was elsewhere with a less disgusting king, I'd still think the goverment should be a republic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 17, 2019, 08:12:29 pm

Yeah, the UK argument is more 'Republicans: It's a waste of money and an obsolete institution' and 'Monarchists: Oh come on, the government spends WAY more than the monarchy and it pays for itself. Plus the Queen and the other nobles pay taxes for crying out loud!'. I'm sure one of our British friends can give a more in-depth explaination.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 08:26:37 pm

Quote

the kind of shit I've heard you say that the Spanish monarchy gets away with.

HEEEEY

I almost forgot to mention this:  https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/07/20/inenglish/1532088453_748117.html

There they explain the basics of the story, but basically, one of the dowager king's former cronies was on record saying how he used her as a money laundering front.

I'll tell you what happened after that bit of news: Spanish parliament blocked the investigation. They OPENLY SAID that, as per the Spanish constitution, the king can't be held accountable, and thus they closed the matter. 

By the way, this wasn't even the conservatives, this was the "socialist" party that won a no confidence motion a few months ago (with the collaboration of the conservatives, of course. It's not like they were in favor of investigating the fucker).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 18, 2019, 02:46:17 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 07:05:19 pm

I don't think heads of state should inherit the role.

This is my mandatory insistence that kings can be elected reminder

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on January 18, 2019, 04:32:27 am

I live in the monarchy of Denmark.
I must confess, that I think our queen is doing an excellent job, and that the crown prince and wife seems to be very capable, - but it’s still fundamentally wrong to inherit any public position, - especially ‘head of state’.

When my friends and I discuss this, the question is always ‘What to put instead?’
We don’t want to move any real power from the parliament to ‘a president’, and we don’t want to have a general election to an empty position (which could then easily end up being filled with whoever won the latest x-factor idol show).

What we have come up with is to elevate the ‘Chair of parliament’ to ‘Head of state’.
In Denmark the ‘chair’ is given to a venerable member of parliament that has the trust and support across parties, and the chair is usually kept until retirement, - i.e. across different government. This seems like a reasonable way to elect a worthy representative for a democratic nation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on January 18, 2019, 06:11:59 am

It should be determined by lottery. It's the only way to be fair and consistent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 18, 2019, 08:03:53 am

Do you want a mafia monarch? Cause that's how you get a mafia monarch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 18, 2019, 08:17:23 am

One of the economics arguments you often hear for a UK monarchy is that the numbers can be interpreted in such a way as to suggest that the living and active monarchy in the UK brings in more money in tourism than they cost.

I also have thoughts on the House of Lords: I agree with the basic idea of the role they fill, and even think having them straight-up elected by the populace would just turn it into another House of Commons and then what's even the point*, but would rather it be arranged as an entirely 'meritocracy' instead of keeping the hereditary aspects though. Allocate a portion of seats to scientists with expertise in various fields, a portion to religious leaders*, that kind of thing. Offer up new seats as old ones retire, die, or inevitably disgrace themselves. Call it the House of Enlightened Peers or something.

But I acknowledge the idea probably has at least just as many flaws as the current system anyway. Shit be complicated dawg, yo.

* If elections get involved it's way too easy to end up with them either in complete constant agreement or constant opposition depending on whether they share the same majority.

* an ever decreasing portion to keep it in line with the ever increasing irrelevance of religion in modern life and the public mind

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on January 18, 2019, 08:23:46 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2019, 08:00:49 pm

I have no idea. That's why I ask as to whether they're claiming the same crap as Spanish monarchists - that somehow maintaining a royal family and all their trappings is cheaper than having a president.

I'm not from the UK, and I really don't care one way or another about the quaint old world attempts at making your silly little governments, so take it with a grain of salt, but the argument as I've always understood it isn't that the queen is  somehow cheaper then a president (that'd be weird) but rather that

A: The income from the Crown Estate is more then the cost of upkeeping the royal family. So the royal family pays more into the government then the government pays into them.
B: There's a theory that, as MorleyDev pointed out, that the royal family is such a popular symbol of the UK that they personally bring in more tourist dollars then they cost to upkeep.

I have no idea if these are true (well, I'm fairly sure the first one is true, but of course you could just say that the royal family should get nothing and the crown estate should become totally owned by the people of the UK, so w/e)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 18, 2019, 10:18:55 am

That's pretty much the argument I've heard too, that the monarchy pays for itself in various ways. Theres also arguably the cultural value, which Spain doesn't seem to have (that I can tell), but cultural value didn't stop other European monarchs from being overthrown.

As I said earlier, I don't have a strong opinion either way towards the UK brand of monarchy. Spains however, sounds like a piece of shit that should be overthrown.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 18, 2019, 10:24:34 am

The crown estate would still pay for itself, and the castles and mansions would still attract tourism, if the UK got rid of the crown. It's just that you have to get rid of the royalty, not get rid of them and give them back their royal estates.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 18, 2019, 10:30:43 am

Quote from: smjjames on January 18, 2019, 10:18:55 am

That's pretty much the argument I've heard too, that the monarchy pays for itself in various ways. Theres also arguably the cultural value, which Spain doesn't seem to have (that I can tell), but cultural value didn't stop other European monarchs from being overthrown.

As I said earlier, I don't have a strong opinion either way towards the UK brand of monarchy. Spains however, sounds like a piece of shit that should be overthrown.

Bear in mind you only have my word about this and I'm a declared republican with nationalist leanings, so this is not exactly impartial :p
But yeah, they are corrupt little shits as far as I'm concerned. I wont say anything about the British crown because I tend to abstain from telling citizens of othdr countries what they have tl do. I can tell you that if I was British or Norwegian I'd still be a republican. I'd probably wouldnt have such a dislike of the people in those roles, but I'd oppose the institution as a matter of principle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 18, 2019, 10:43:50 am

Like I said, you can go back (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw) and forth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiE2DLqJB8U) on the cost of the Royal Family and the Monarchy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 18, 2019, 11:11:34 am

I have a suspicion that whoever succeeds Elizabeth and Charles (whether William or Harry or whoever) is going to redefine the monarchy in the 21st century since it's a new generation and Elizabeth has been the defining British monarch of the 20th century.

Then again, the arguments probably won't change much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on January 18, 2019, 11:28:22 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 18, 2019, 10:24:34 am

The crown estate would still pay for itself, and the castles and mansions would still attract tourism, if the UK got rid of the crown. It's just that you have to get rid of the royalty, not get rid of them and give them back their royal estates.

This makes sense to me, although it does seem to be saying we should take wealth and privilege away from people that inherited it from immoral ancestors, which is a hard sell in a society mostly controlled by people who inherited wealth and privilege from immoral ancestors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 18, 2019, 12:20:51 pm

Quote from: scriver on September 10, 2018, 07:28:07 am

So far my predictions seem correct. White exact result will not be known until Wednesday because of postal and early votes being delayed (and also customary correction checks of all votrs), so far it looks like the left and right-minus-SD is both equalling out at ~40%, and SD becoming the goverment-maker with their 17%.

Only other way is if either of the two largest parties from each wing, the Social Democrats and the Moderates, join up with the other wing. The Moderates refuses to work with the left as long as Vänsterpartiet (Left Party) is part of the goal, and Vänsterpartiet holds 8% the left vote. So what it comes down to is whether the Social Democrats will abandon all pretentious of still being left-wing and join up with their neo-liberal comerades-in-thought on the right or not[/url] (Miljöpartiet, the Environment Party, who while they are the most liberally inclined of the "left", are more or less irrelevant because of their meagre 4.5%). Either way, SD stands only to gain because if the Social Democrats refuses to join with the right, SD becomes the only way to secure government, but if S forms a government with any of the right-wing parties then SD will see another wave of disappointed social democrat voters join them.

And if you don't think the Social Democrats stands to loose to SD, well, they're certainly feeling threatened enough over the prospect to let the union whip fly (https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/lo-basen-utan-vara-medlemssamtal-hade-s-tappat-mycket-mer/) (Google translation of article here (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.se&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/lo-basen-utan-vara-medlemssamtal-hade-s-tappat-mycket-mer/&xid=17259,15700021,15700122,15700124,15700149,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjEDz1Lj2QH1HvBZIpGq3Fq9t3MWQ)).

So after five months since the election Sweden finally got a government today as the Riksdag elected a Prime Minister. The Social Democrats and the Environment Party forms a joint government through the support of the Centre Party, the Peoples Party/the Liberals, and the Left Party. It wasn't my primary guess of what was going to happened but I did call it second, as highlighted above.

As expected, the Social Democrats completely folded to the right wing parties in doing so. They went as far as to sign a written agreement that means they're abandoning all main fighting points of Swedish socialist agenda in favour of huge, far-reaching neo-liberal reforms of the Swedish system. I really can't overstate the kind of damage this will cause to Sweden's system, and likely irreparable. If there ever was a point one could truly and indisputably say the Swedish Model was dead, this is it. And they wonder why things are going so badly for the Social Democrat movement.

I'm foreseeing a massive loss of support for the Social Democrats in the next four years to the Sweden Democrats, their main computers for the lower class and workers' movement vote. All that remains to see is whether the latter will be the biggest or second biggest party after the next election - regardless their likely usurpation of the Moderates seat as the biggest right-wing party is likely to shape the rest of the conservative arena for the foreseeable future.

And if you want something darkly funny to laugh at in this horrible mess then listen up: the Left Party (the furthest riksdag party to the left) cast the kingmaking vote for the Socdem state minister today, in full knowledge of this agreement they are beholden to promising this long list of reforms that the Left does not support (they've promised to "fight" the reformars in the riksdag but their 8% can't do much against the others' 90%. Their only chance to prevent them was to prevent the government from forming by not supporting it) - but not just that: Part of the agreement is literally that the Left Party be excluded from all forms of political influence. The Left Party literally voted to remove themself from any and all kinds of political relevance. They might as well dissolve the party for the next four years. They had the power of whether this government went through or not, and they voted to strip themselves of all power. Fucking priceless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 18, 2019, 12:48:13 pm

Why did they support that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 18, 2019, 01:13:28 pm

My guess is that they did so to make sure that the status quo, however awful, remains. A reelection would likely mean gains for SD and nobody wants that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 18, 2019, 01:54:01 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 18, 2019, 12:48:13 pm

Why did they support that?

I can't come up with any explanation that makes rational sense.

As SaberTooth says it might be the case that an reelection - and if they didn't come up with a viable candidate for State Minister today the speaker had promised to call for reelection - would mean an increase of percentages for the Sweden Democrats (SD). However, if election/party support surveys were to be trusted, it also meant a decrease of support for every other party except the Left Party (V), which stood unchanged, and the Social Democrats (S), which also had gained support.

There was the chance that the reelection might mean a Moderates-Christ Democrats-government-with-the-support-of-SD instead (or in a worse case scenario, if SD would have surpassed the Moderates as the biggest rightwing party, an M-KD-SD government). Which they of course would not want. But then they actually could have worked with the other parties, particularly the other left wing ones, to oppose right wing policies. Now we have a supposedly left wing government that has bound itself to extreme right wing policy. I don't see how this is better. Especially in the long run, as I believe it will completely undermine people's belief in the left wing parties. It certainly undermines mine, but it is already pretty dug through to begin with.

And as I linked above, SD is already profiting from support flow from disenfranchised underclass and workers' movement demographics. They're going to profit from this too. So basically they traded a chance of SD gaining seats in the Riksdag for a chance of SD stealing their own voter base, all while supporting a government that has signed an agreement to literally prevent the Left Party from having any kind of influence of politics. It's utter spineless madness.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 19, 2019, 12:02:26 am

@Scriver: Sounds like some sort of non-eucilidean horseshoe loop or something....

Anyways, regarding Brexit, theres chatter (https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-presented-by-london-first-jezzas-wake-up-call-constitutional-oracle-speaks-great-british-stockpile/) that they could do a snap election, and they've been exploring a second referendum (it's the BBC liveblog as it's not one particular entry) (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/46874049)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on January 20, 2019, 02:07:22 am

Seems that the British, having run out of ideas to rule out, are being forced to reexamine some of them.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on January 18, 2019, 10:24:34 am

The crown estate would still pay for itself, and the castles and mansions would still attract tourism, if the UK got rid of the crown. It's just that you have to get rid of the royalty, not get rid of them and give them back their royal estates.

Ok, argument as follows.

Major Premise: Taking away private property is the ESSENCE OF COMMUNISM.
Minor Premise: COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE
Syllogism: Taking away private property is bad.

Major Premise: UK is GLORIOUS CAPITALIST COUNTRY>
Minor Premise: Taking away private property is bad.
Syllogism: UK shouldn't take away private property.

Additional Premise #1: Royal Family owns the UK.
Additional Premise #2: Taking away the UK would require taking away their property rights.

Conclusion:
Abolishing Royal Family is the equivalent to establishing a British Communist State.
QED.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 20, 2019, 08:44:10 am

You seem to assume much too much americanism in your reasoning

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2019, 02:16:36 pm

Monarchical Ancapitalism will solidify the monarchy with the floating of the Royal Crypto

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 23, 2019, 12:10:46 pm

(http://puu.sh/CB9WJ/01ffb6f9e4.png)

12 minutes

5184 comments

Brexit only, Final Destination, No Banter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 23, 2019, 12:15:07 pm

Has to be bots?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Elderon on January 25, 2019, 11:22:13 am

So greece accepted agreement about Macedonia changing their name to North Macedonia , which, at least according to BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47002865 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47002865) , caused lots of protest on Greece streets and division in government.
Can someone with more intimate knowledge about these events can explen why big part of Greece population are so upset? Doesn't name change alleviate fears about potential NM territorial ambitions and dibs on Greece cultural heritage? Or is there some other conflict beneath it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 25, 2019, 01:04:17 pm

North Macedonia still had Macedonia in it, obviously. The Greeks wants them to stop calling themselves Macedonians. This allays nothing any more than the previous Former Yugoslavic Republic of Macedonia name did. Accepting the name Northern Macedonia would only encreditate the Macedonians' claims on the name, which is what the Greeks dislike, so it's understandable that anyone who is against the slack people calling themselves that would still be against it calling themselves that with a "North" in front of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 25, 2019, 01:15:42 pm

All that conflict about salad preparation. Madness

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 25, 2019, 01:28:20 pm

I know what you mean because fruit salad is one of the handful of words I remember from Spanish class

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 25, 2019, 02:21:42 pm

Quote from: Elderon on January 25, 2019, 11:22:13 am

So greece accepted agreement about Macedonia changing their name to North Macedonia , which, at least according to BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47002865 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47002865) , caused lots of protest on Greece streets and division in government.
Can someone with more intimate knowledge about these events can explen why big part of Greece population are so upset? Doesn't name change alleviate fears about potential NM territorial ambitions and dibs on Greece cultural heritage? Or is there some other conflict beneath it?

Cultural appropriation & political consequences

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 25, 2019, 02:31:00 pm

I'm more interested in whether North Macedonia is, in terms of territory, more similar to ye olde Macedonia.

I mean, does the Greek province have greater territorial possession? It's not like they can be angry that "Macedonia" is a Greek name otherwise. It's the name of those who conquered Greece, who were at best tangentially related to Greece. It's like me, someone from the UK, getting angry that Saxony wanted to be an independent state, and the people wanted to be called "Saxons".

A genuine question, as my knowledge of non-ancient/medieval boundaries is quite lacking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 25, 2019, 02:39:19 pm

IIRC 2/3rds of original Macedonia fall within modern Greece. NewMacedonia covers the final third. After that the issue devolves in which heavily admixtured population matches original Macedonians better, whose answer is probably "maybe Greek Macedonians a bit,, but probably neither". They argue a lot about North Macedonia or whatever you want to call it having heavy slavic influences in culture and populational dynamics, and shit like that, though.

You're absolutely right about ancient Greeks regarding Macedonians as foreigners, and while only tangential to the current  issue, it CAN be used to viciously troll modern Greeks, if you feel so inclined.  They go ballistic when you say Alexander wasn't Greek.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 25, 2019, 03:17:04 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 25, 2019, 02:31:00 pm

I'm more interested in whether North Macedonia is, in terms of territory, more similar to ye olde Macedonia.

I mean, does the Greek province have greater territorial possession? It's not like they can be angry that "Macedonia" is a Greek name otherwise. It's the name of those who conquered Greece, who were at best tangentially related to Greece. It's like me, someone from the UK, getting angry that Saxony wanted to be an independent state, and the people wanted to be called "Saxons".

A genuine question, as my knowledge of non-ancient/medieval boundaries is quite lacking.

You're example is missing one key aspect - in your example, both English and Saxons has a direct inheritance of the word (of which the Saxons are the stronger one, I'd like to say). It's more as if a bunch of Slavic people settled partially on the German Saxony and then started calling themselves Saxons too, and then modern German Saxons being pissed about that. Macedonians are Slavic and lacks any tie to ancient Macedonia beyond the area.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 25, 2019, 02:39:19 pm

IIRC 2/3rds of original Macedonia fall within modern Greece. NewMacedonia covers the final third. After that the issue devolves in which heavily admixtured population matches original Macedonians better, whose answer is probably "maybe Greek Macedonians a bit,, but probably neither". They argue a lot about North Macedonia or whatever you want to call it having heavy slavic influences in culture and populational dynamics, and shit like that, though.

You're absolutely right about ancient Greeks regarding Macedonians as foreigners, and while only tangential to the current  issue, it CAN be used to viciously troll modern Greeks, if you feel so inclined.  They go ballistic when you say Alexander wasn't Greek.

The ancient Greek correctly didn't count the Macedonians as "Greek", but that doesn't change that the Macedonians were a Greek/Hellenic cultural branch that got integrated into the national identity that eventually would result in the modern Greek nationality. It's like claiming Birger Jarl, the "founding father" of Sweden, wasn't Swedish because he and his contemporaries considered him a Geat - Geats are part of the Swedish of today. Saying Alexander wasn't Greek is technically correct (and as such, I agree, an excellent source of lulz on par with claiming Tove Jansson wasn't Finnish) not exactly relevant to the conflict at hand. Alexander's Macedoniannes is a line that leads to modern Greekishness, not the completely unrelated Slavic Macedonians.

edit: I guess I pretty much just reiterated what you said, I should've read more closely before responding

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on January 25, 2019, 03:40:12 pm

North Macedonia seems to hold almost none of the most ancient borders of Macedonia....which fluctuated a lot anyway. To claim that calling themselves Macedonia is a statement that they intend to take back "their" Greek territories....what? Why don't you just claim that they're threating to redo Alexander's conquests of the ancient world by taking the name "Macedonia"? It makes just as much sense, after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on January 25, 2019, 04:29:57 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 25, 2019, 02:31:00 pm

I'm more interested in whether North Macedonia is, in terms of territory, more similar to ye olde Macedonia.

I mean, does the Greek province have greater territorial possession? It's not like they can be angry that "Macedonia" is a Greek name otherwise. It's the name of those who conquered Greece, who were at best tangentially related to Greece. It's like me, someone from the UK, getting angry that Saxony wanted to be an independent state, and the people wanted to be called "Saxons".

A genuine question, as my knowledge of non-ancient/medieval boundaries is quite lacking.

The "borders" were meaningless. Modern scholars classify a region as "Greece" but no such borders actually existed. The region was first unified by Philip of Macedon into a nation which could be called "Greece" hence why Macedonia is important to Greek identity.

We only say Macedonians weren't "proper" Greeks because they came from outside some anachronistic borders of "Greece" that we now define. Sure, they came from outside the great city-states of the Greek peninsula, but that's meaningless.

Greeks were all over the place, with settlements ranging from the south coast of Spain in the west to Turkey and the Black sea in the east. So, just because Alexander's Macedonia wasn't in "classical Greece" that in no way indicates that they weren't ethnically Greek. Without DNA, the best way to determine it would be to ask what language Macedonians actually spoke. As far as I know there's no evidence that Macedonians spoke any language that wasn't Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(ancient_kingdom)#History

Quote

The Classical Greek historians Herodotus and Thucydides reported the legend that the Macedonian kings of the Argead dynasty were descendants of Temenus, king of Argos, and could therefore claim the mythical Heracles as one of their ancestors as well as a direct lineage from Zeus, chief god of the Greek pantheon.

In Homer's Iliad, "Greek" as a blanket term didn't exist yet. One of the most common terms he uses to refer to Greeks as a whole is "Argives": derived from the name of the city of Argos, an important founding site of Mycenean Greece. If the kings in Macedonia were claiming to be descended from Argos and calling themselves the Argead Dynasty, that's a direct claim of Mycenean Greek heritage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on January 25, 2019, 06:11:48 pm

If your asking about core territory overlap, there really is not much between ancient and modern Macedonia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2019, 10:31:15 am

Disregard squabbles, rebuild Byzantine

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 26, 2019, 11:06:48 am

Macedonia doesn't have any right to claim historical territories of Macedonia, unlike Serbia, for Serbia is without beginning and end. Serbia is eternal. Greece is Serbia. Love is Serbia. Life is Serbia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 26, 2019, 12:07:13 pm

Falklands is Serbia
Taiwan is Serbia
Korea is Serbia
Tibet is Serbia
Levant is Serbia
Antarctica is Serbia
Crimea is Serbia
Mellila is Serbia
Kashmir is Serbia
Macedonia is Serbia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on January 26, 2019, 01:28:01 pm

Sweden is Serbia
Ecuador is Serbia
Russia is Serbia
Brazil is Serbia
Iran is Serbia
Australia is Serbia
Sri Lanka is Serbia
Togo is Serbia
Romania is Serbia
Oman is Serbia
Nigeria is Serbia
Guinea is Serbia

It's in the name

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 26, 2019, 01:35:32 pm

EA Sports is Serbia..?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on January 26, 2019, 01:47:41 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 26, 2019, 01:35:32 pm

EA Sports is Serbia..?

No, it is a hell-dimension.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on January 26, 2019, 01:49:48 pm

Quote from: Teneb on January 26, 2019, 01:47:41 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 26, 2019, 01:35:32 pm

EA Sports is Serbia..?

No, it is a hell-dimension.

Also Serbia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on January 26, 2019, 05:50:45 pm

Quote from: Teneb on January 26, 2019, 01:47:41 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 26, 2019, 01:35:32 pm

EA Sports is Serbia..?

No, it is a hell-dimension.

Poor John madden... He hasn't been able to escape for years. This is what a deal with the devil looks like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on January 27, 2019, 07:40:50 am

He's in the game.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on January 27, 2019, 10:40:07 am

Marie Le Pen says she supports the UK returning to a reformed EU (https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-backs-britains-membership-in-reformed-eu-brexit/), though theres kind of an implied caveat in that how is it going to be reformed to the way the UK would like it if they aren't in there.

Also, she wants an alliance of European states rather than the EU. Not sure how that would be different from the current makeup of NATO other than maybe it's goal and some membership changes, and doing things besides just military.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 27, 2019, 03:57:34 pm

Quote

Doing things besides just military.

That... kind of sums up how it would be different, yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 01, 2019, 09:07:11 am

Unarmed football hooligan who attacked three armed jihadists during the London Bridge terror attack shouting "fuck you I'm Millwall" spared jail sentence after pleading guilty to possession of amphetamines (https://www.kentonline.co.uk/romney-marsh/news/lion-of-london-bridge-spared-jail-198036/)
Classic

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 03, 2019, 12:54:55 pm

Meanwhile, plans are made to evacuate the Queen if a no-deal Brexit leads to riots.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/god-evacuate-the-queen-plannen-om-koningin-naar-veilige-plek-te-brengen-als-brexit-op-rellen-uitloopt~b153e468/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6661457/Whitehall-plan-evacuate-Queen-Brexit-sparks-riots-streets-London.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 03, 2019, 02:09:59 pm

Quote

The Queen has been dragged into an extraordinary ‘Project Fear’ row after it emerged that civil servants have drawn up plans to evacuate the Royal Family if a No Deal Brexit causes riots on the streets of London.
The Mail on Sunday has learned that Whitehall contingency planners have included among their ‘worst case’ scenarios the need to move the Royals to safe locations away from the capital.
Officials in the Civil Contingencies Secretariat, the Government department responsible for emergency planning, have ‘repurposed’ a secret operation under which the Royals could have been accommodated in various country houses to protect them from enemy forces during the Cold War.

classic whitehall
if they actually believed this was an outcome they would not leak their secret plans; because they believe it to be useful ammunition, they leak their useless plan

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 03, 2019, 09:21:17 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 03, 2019, 12:54:55 pm

Meanwhile, plans are made to evacuate the Queen if a no-deal Brexit leads to riots.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/god-evacuate-the-queen-plannen-om-koningin-naar-veilige-plek-te-brengen-als-brexit-op-rellen-uitloopt~b153e468/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6661457/Whitehall-plan-evacuate-Queen-Brexit-sparks-riots-streets-London.html

I saw that (well, the far less alarmist Politico version) earlier and was going to post about how I laughed at it since it talked about evacuating to the continent, but I re-read the article again and realized that it was an initial reading comp failure on my part since the plan seems to be to evacuate to more defensible country estates (I don't suppose they have any old castles handy?) rather than outside the country. Also, I had made a quip about 'whatever happened to the 'stay calm and carry on' mentality?' in the post I decided not to make since it seems like a time for the Monarchy to be a bastion of (outward) calm during such a time rather than panic.

If the riots aren't about them, then they shouldn't really have anything to worry about. But as you might expect, they do make contingency plans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 05, 2019, 03:34:04 pm

Theresa May still not budging on the backstop (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47123078), and neither is the DUP on their position. (https://www.politico.eu/article/irish-backstop-is-toxic-would-break-up-uk-says-dup-leader-arlene-foster/)

Also, the BBC article mentions Theresa May saying that 'the technology to manage the complexities of the Irish border does not exist or has been implemented', which I completely do not buy. She's obviously referring to the political complexities since the economic complexities are no more complex than anyplace else, but there are certainly borders elsewhere that are just as or more politically complex than the NI-ROI border and are managed just fine. Sure, it would take time to calibrate whatever technology to the borders needs, but the political complexity isn't between ROI and NI (who see each other as friends AFAIK. Far from the tense relationship it has with the UK.), it's between NI and UK.

Also2, with all the gridlock and chest-thumping the DUP is having over the Irish border, inaction (that is, a no-brexit crash through) looks like it's going to apply exactly what they don't want.

edit: It's also, IMO, way past time for them to start coming up with unconventional solutions since the conventional attempts aren't working. I had an idea a while ago to have part of the border be the hard border DUP wants and parts of it being the one May wants and it'd look like a dotted line or something. Obviously such an idea would be completely and utterly unworkable for a variety of reasons, but it's an unconventional solution.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2019, 03:42:26 pm

Of course the technology doesn't exist, there's not a software engineer in the world capable of updatin the Theresabot to a functioning Prime Machiner

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 05, 2019, 04:24:49 pm

Quote from: smjjames on February 05, 2019, 03:34:04 pm

Also2, with all the gridlock and chest-thumping the DUP is having over the Irish border, inaction (that is, a no-brexit crash through) looks like it's going to apply exactly what they don't want.

I'm not a fan of the DUP, but to claim they're "chest-thumping" as though it were some sort of neandrathalic power display is not a fair representation. It's not some casual childish stubbornness; this is a subject which is directly relevant to their voters and which their voters feel passionately about. To back down would be a betrayal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2019, 04:45:26 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on February 05, 2019, 04:24:49 pm

I'm not a fan of the DUP, but to claim they're "chest-thumping" as though it were some sort of neandrathalic power display is not a fair representation. It's not some casual childish stubbornness; this is a subject which is directly relevant to their voters and which their voters feel passionately about. To back down would be a betrayal.

I believe such sentiment stems from a general incredulity at the notion of MPs representing the beliefs of their supporters
It's not an untrue notion either

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 05, 2019, 04:52:21 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2019, 04:45:26 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on February 05, 2019, 04:24:49 pm

I'm not a fan of the DUP, but to claim they're "chest-thumping" as though it were some sort of neandrathalic power display is not a fair representation. It's not some casual childish stubbornness; this is a subject which is directly relevant to their voters and which their voters feel passionately about. To back down would be a betrayal.

I believe such sentiment stems from a general incredulity at the notion of MPs representing the beliefs of their supporters
It's not an untrue notion either

They’re also supporting a government that has zero interest in providing a solution to the border, despite voting against them because of their issues with the solution for the border the government said was the best they would receive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2019, 04:57:24 pm

"Supporting" is generous, I prefer the term Kingmaker with benefits

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 05, 2019, 05:06:03 pm

I guess “support” on it’s own has a broad definition, but they still did it :p

Having not paid that much attention recently, has anything about the Brexit deal actually been changed or clarified since December?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 05, 2019, 05:14:06 pm

Seems like they simply got more entrenched on the Irish border backstop, so, no, it doesn't seem like anything about the Brexit deal has changed. If there were tweaks or something, I don't know what they are, and it seems like the Irish border stuff is the last thing that they haven't figured out what to do with yet. Unless they've internally decided at this point that they are just going to let Brexit crash through and deal with the aftermath.

Though I could see them still being unable to come to an agreement since everybodys positions wouldn't have changed (EU says 'no special perks', May says 'don't rock the GFD boat', and DUP says 'no sea border'), even if the conditions have.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 05, 2019, 05:20:12 pm

Pretty much my preferred option at this point.

Any deal which EU has so far accepted (which is a singular 'deal' which they won't budge on) has had disastrous long term implications. Rip off the bandage, let it bleed and heal. Seems the only real option at this point.

As for DUP actually representing its voters, that's something I've noticed about them in relation to English politics. The political system is in turmoil over here, but I trust that if a local politician says a certain policy is anathema to them, it will largely remain so. There remains a trace of conviction within their politics which is lacking in English parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 05, 2019, 05:22:12 pm

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 05, 2019, 05:32:10 pm

Would the DUP want a hard border to the point where people are worried about The Troubles 2.0: Electric Boogaloo though? I've read things that there is already a bit of unrest (or maybe it's just the low simmering broil that's always present, not sure) and a lot of people are concerned about things going bad if Brexit crashes through.

Quote from: Kagus on February 05, 2019, 05:22:12 pm

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

The UK has some pretty unique circumstances though. Any EU countries attempt at secession would be it's own kind of clusterfuck due to their particular circumstances and situations that need dealing with. Who's to say that another country attempting it would have a stronger leader than Theresa May.

About the only one I know of that has talked about it recently is Italy, though that was during their elections and was being used as a political tool which they backed off of. Right wingers and other euroskeptics seem to be more of the 'lets reform from within' attitude than 'EXXXIIITTTT!!!!' these days.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 05, 2019, 05:41:32 pm

Both Italian parties dropped exiting the EU from their programmes before the election. Just like the rest of Euroskeptic parties, really. It's a poisonous potato of sorts now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 05, 2019, 05:52:29 pm

Quote from: Kagus on February 05, 2019, 05:22:12 pm

I wonder how many other EU countries are seriously considering secession now after watching the glorious clusterfuck that the UK managed to kick up...

I've no doubt that's a large part of the point.

Quote from: smjjames on February 05, 2019, 05:32:10 pm

Would the DUP want a hard border to the point where people are worried about The Troubles 2.0: Electric Boogaloo though? I've read things that there is already a bit of unrest (or maybe it's just the low simmering broil that's always present, not sure) and a lot of people are concerned about things going bad if Brexit crashes through.

Again, they are listening to their voters. For example Donald from Lisburn, who in this  (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/05/voters-dup-heartland-stance-irish-border-agreement-brexit)article stated that

Quote

I voted for Brexit expecting that we would all be out of the EU – not just England, Scotland and Wales. We in Northern Ireland can’t be simply halfway out.

“Sorting out the border should be the business of our government and the one in Dublin, not Europe or Brussels. Most unionists like myself will tell you they don’t want a hard border, but they also don’t want their British identity or nationality compromised. There are a lot of things I don’t agree with regarding the DUP, like their opposition to gay rights. But they do defend the union and they did so on Monday by rejecting that deal.”

Read the article for more voters' opinions if you want.

As for unrest over the border.... not really, no. A wee bit of unrest in general, but that's fairly normal. A lot of people (perhaps in this I am biased, as it may simply be a lot of people who I know/interact with) don't see why the border issue is such a large spanner in the talks. Certainly there is a desire to have the issue resolved, but the amount of emphasis on it seems out of proportion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 06, 2019, 08:48:07 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135)

Donald Tusk says there's "a special place in hell" for those british MPs who "promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out"

British MPs unamused, for some reason, and he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

Quote

At the end of their press conference, Mr Varadkar was picked up by the microphones telling Mr Tusk: "They'll give you terrible trouble in the British press for that."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 06, 2019, 10:12:58 am

Pathetic, he should've stuck by his words

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2019, 10:21:19 am

In what way he hasn't, though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 06, 2019, 04:30:24 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2019, 10:21:19 am

In what way he hasn't, though?

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 06, 2019, 08:48:07 am

he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

It's also rather irritating how Juncker and Tusk have misplayed the EU's hand so consistently, refusing to compromise with Cameron or never ceasing in their capacity to pointlessly insult the UK's factions. It's rather alike a pack of dogs fighting amongst themselves, then the wolf jumps in and the pack of dogs unite. I would much rather the EU remain respectful and allow our own house of cards to devour itself than for its incompetent drunkards to show up and unite the pack against such a blatantly exploitable incident

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2019, 08:23:04 pm

Nevermind all that. I'd like to know how he walked back on that statement, since I can't see anything to that effect in the news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 06, 2019, 04:30:24 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2019, 10:21:19 am

In what way he hasn't, though?

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 06, 2019, 08:48:07 am

he seems to have walked back on said statements since.

It's also rather irritating how Juncker and Tusk have misplayed the EU's hand so consistently, refusing to compromise with Cameron or never ceasing in their capacity to pointlessly insult the UK's factions. It's rather alike a pack of dogs fighting amongst themselves, then the wolf jumps in and the pack of dogs unite. I would much rather the EU remain respectful and allow our own house of cards to devour itself than for its incompetent drunkards to show up and unite the pack against such a blatantly exploitable incident

From the point of view of the EU bureaucracy, they want this to go badly so as to discourage other countries from leaving, and that is apparently a successful tactic.

I don’t think they’re wrong though. It is mindbogglingly stupid the Tories has no plan prior to the referendum, even bare bones, for a Leave vote. It is minbogglingly stupid that it appeared none of the contenders for the Tory leadership after Cameron fucked off had a plan, and they all then realized what a poisoned chalice the position actually would be and slowly but surely abandoned their goal,  and left Theresa May holding the bag.

Then she triggers Article 50 with no plan and calls a general election 6 weeks later, and lost a 20-point lead in the ensuing month and a half. I actually - foolishly, naively - thought this would actually encourage dialogue between parties, between the “equal” partners in the UK, but she just carried on with fucking about doing whatever it was she was doing, being told nobody really likes the direction it’s going and is somehow surprised when it turns out nobody really liked the direction it was going.

My favourite part was when Davis stepped out of the Brexit minister role after the Chequers plan, and was replaced by Raab, citing disagreement with the plan. Then a month later, when the plan is finalized, Raab, having been deputy for the entirety and then the man with the plan for the final month also steps down, citing disagreement with the plan he tacitly supported by accepting the position in the first place. Then the media were putting his name forward for a possible leadership bid if May lost the Tory confidence vote!

Anyway, tl;dr Tusk is biased, but he’s also right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 06, 2019, 09:48:29 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

From the point of view of the EU bureaucracy, they want this to go badly so as to discourage other countries from leaving, and that is apparently a successful tactic.
I don’t think they’re wrong though. It is mindbogglingly stupid the Tories has no plan prior to the referendum, even bare bones, for a Leave vote.

They did have a plan for a leave vote. It was to ape Blair, fuck off to the private sector like Cameron or the media like Osborne, then bide their time until they can join an institution like the EU, UN or NATO on a professional level.

Quote from: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

It is minbogglingly stupid that it appeared none of the contenders for the Tory leadership after Cameron fucked off had a plan, and they all then realized what a poisoned chalice the position actually would be and slowly but surely abandoned their goal,  and left Theresa May holding the bag.

But that's wrong. First Boris Johnson's leadership bid was undermined by Gove on Cameron & Osborne's orders, then Andrea Leadsom's was given the same Judas treatment. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/06/andrea-leadsom-resists-pressure-to-publish-tax-returns)

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:13:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2018, 11:04:41 am

In the Tory leadership contest, it was taken as a given that Boris Johnson was going to become Prime Minister. He was a high-profile public figure, he was popular amongst MPs and voters, most importantly he had led a significant portion of the Leave campaign and supported (lukewarmly) the call for a referendum from 2015. That is until Michael Gove, who had been his second in command during the Leave campaign & was the man charged with leading Boris's leadership bid... Withdrew his support and announced his own leadership bid. This split Boris's support between them and forced Boris to withdraw, crippling his leadership bid and leaving Theresa May as the frontrunner. Theresa May then had to beat Andrea Leadsom, but given that she was Home Secretary and Leadsom was not, that was a foregone conclusion. Afterwards, Gove is reported as going on holiday with George Osborne, David Cameron's right hand man and Boris's rival. Gove then returns under May's government in 2017 as the cabinet minister for environmental affairs. We will continue to pick up the pieces of Cameron's machinations for generations to come

*Fake edit
Looking over it, it seems my inference was correct:

Quote from: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-david-cameron-text-gove-brexit-prime-minister-betrayal-a7376256.html

Former Prime Minister David Cameron texted Boris Johnson to gloat after the now-Foreign Secretary was betrayed in his Tory leadership bid by Leave Campaign ally Michael Gove, a new book has claimed.
Mr Gove managed Mr Johnson’s campaign to be Mr Cameron's successor, before changing his mind the night before nominations were announced and running himself, forcing Mr Johnson to withdraw from the contest.
Mr Cameron, who campaigned to remain in the EU and resigned over the referendum result, texted Mr Johnson and said "you should have stuck with me, mate," following the debacle, author Tim Shipman has said.

Cameron & Osborne got Gove to destroy the Boris bid

Even after Theresa May's rivals got the punt, the scant few MPs who actually supported Brexit and were given a say in Brexit planning like Boris or David Davis were sidelined in a complete and utter farce - just before David Davis was going to release his white paper draft, MPs were invited to Chequers house and there the chequers paper drafted by Olly Robbins was released in a 12 hour meeting (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44807741), and the MPs were told to accept the paper or resign and walk all the way back to London from Buckinhamshire. David Davis resigned immediately; Boris Johnson used the government car to ride back to London and then resigned.

Theresa May supported Remain. She's the one who's poisoned the chalice so no one who actually supported Brexit can implement Brexit, then she can champion this poor martyr narrative that she is the one holding the poisoned bag because everyone else ran away - as she nonetheless kicks them out the door.

Quote from: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

Then she triggers Article 50 with no plan and calls a general election 6 weeks later, and lost a 20-point lead in the ensuing month and a half. I actually - foolishly, naively - thought this would actually encourage dialogue between parties, between the “equal” partners in the UK, but she just carried on with fucking about doing whatever it was she was doing, being told nobody really likes the direction it’s going and is somehow surprised when it turns out nobody really liked the direction it was going.

The problem is dialogue within either of the two main parties wasn't even happening, Corbyn wasn't clarifying Labour's position on Brexit versus his own MPs versus his own electorate, much in the same way Theresa May wasn't clarifying the Conservative's position on Brexit versus their own MPs versus their own electorate, with the main difference simply being Corbyn did so with much more dignity and much less dancing.

While there was inter-party dialogue, I am sure nearly everyone was surprised it would occur between Theresa May & Arlene Foster.

Quote from: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

My favourite part was when Davis stepped out of the Brexit minister role after the Chequers plan, and was replaced by Raab, citing disagreement with the plan. Then a month later, when the plan is finalized, Raab, having been deputy for the entirety and then the man with the plan for the final month also steps down, citing disagreement with the plan he tacitly supported by accepting the position in the first place. Then the media were putting his name forward for a possible leadership bid if May lost the Tory confidence vote!

David Davis resigned stating that he wouldn't serve in office just to rubber stamp a plan he had no part in making. You are cruel to force me to defend Dominic Raab, but for all to criticise him for this too does not make sense; he resigned over the Irish backstop proposals which were not part of the plan he was tacitly supporting.

Quote from: hector13 on February 06, 2019, 08:37:52 pm

Anyway, tl;dr Tusk is biased, but he’s also right.

1. He's wrong, David Cameron didn't support leave.
2. The open contempt he displays is something that belongs in the back of his bar, maybe this is just a bad year for Donalds in international relations, but it's one thing to act like a arse and it's another thing to act like a stupid arse. Every single effort by Remain to prove the EU is working in good faith is undone by these dopey old fucks and it's forcing Leave to rally around the government the same way Theresa May forced Labour to rally around Corbyn. It's not a situation that makes anyone happy as it forces both of us to flip the table of good faith over, because it's clear Donald and Juncker can't be trusted; and so the European Union cannot be trusted. Because you know what they're showing in the British media? Funnily enough, it's Donald Tusk laughing at how much hell they'll give him.

Quote

From Downing Street came a tone of resigned exasperation as the prime minister's spokesperson said Mr Tusk might want to perhaps ask himself if his language was helpful.
Behind the scenes Mrs May could be forgiven for banging her head against the wall.
Incendiary language like this could not come at a worse time for the prime minister who is desperately trying to calm down her febrile Brexiteers rather than firing them up.

Do these idiots not understand that if they cannot work with the likes of Cameron and May, they are handing the keys of the party over to leave? (https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tusks-hell-jibe-risks-turning-britain-towards-a-no-deal-brexit-11629907)

Fingers crossed this actually secures no-deal Brexit. Then I can celebrate, until then it's just pissing off everyone for no gain, all at the behest of a dipshit no one voted for. At least the other Donald has voters

*EDIT
tl;dr
If you're one of the world's most important leaders and you're giving a speech about respect and peace, it's a fucking 10/10 move to end your speech with GO TO HELL.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 06, 2019, 10:27:26 pm

Oh boy it's Jezza time (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-eu-lisbon-treaty-europe-empire-military-video-a8766421.html)

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn warned about the threat of "a European empire" and said the EU was creating "a military Frankenstein", a video has revealed. 

In a tirade against a key EU treaty in 2009, the now Labour leader urged people in Ireland to vote against moves towards further European integration and criticised the influence of the Nato military alliance.

He condemned the "militarisation of Europe" and described the impact of Nato as "malevolent".

The newly unearthed footage was published by the Red Roar website.

Speaking at a rally before the 2009 Irish referendum on whether to approve the Lisbon Treaty, which paved the way for more EU integration, Mr Corbyn, then a backbench MP, said: "Under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, Europe will become subservient to the wishes of Nato and the aims of Nato....What it does is create this military machine, this military Frankenstein, which will be so damaging to all of us."

The MP said Nato was "a global military force with no democratic control, no accountability whatsoever" and added: "We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein which will damage all of us in the long run."

Continuing his condemnation of Nato, he said: "Nato's influence has been malevolent, to say the least, on every economy of every country that's been part of it: it's increased vastly military expenditure, it's poured a vast amount of money into the hands of arms manufacturers and aircraft manufacturers and developed for itself this huge power which was far greater than the influence of any one military in any one country. It is also largely unaccountable."

Mr Corbyn said a vote in Ireland against the Lisbon Treaty would be "such a boost to people like us" who "do not want to live in a European empire of the 21st century."

"I obviously hope and believe that the Irish people will vote no," he said.

He was speaking shortly before Ireland's second referendum on the treaty. The first, in 2008, delivered a vote against it being adopted.

Mr Corbyn also suggested the EU would make Irish voters "keep on voting until they get the result they want”. Ireland eventually voted to support the Lisbon Treaty, allowing its ratification by all EU member states.  (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty)
[Funny way of saying they were made to revote until the EU got what they wanted]

AWAKEN SUNKEN SOURER

...

You leave any government alone and it'll crumble under its own weight. Now the thing is, in the UK we have little choice in the matter. But I've got to wonder, in the entirety of the European continent, could they not find anyone other than Tusk, Juncker, Rompuy to lead? Was there no one else? The EU has not even finished subjugating Italy or humiliating Greece and yet its useless leaders already see fit to attack every friend?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 07, 2019, 03:32:55 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2019, 08:23:04 pm

Nevermind all that. I'd like to know how he walked back on that statement, since I can't see anything to that effect in the news.

Been article said his twitter account later deleted the statement where he called all his British counterparts incompetent idiots or whatever

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 07, 2019, 03:39:37 am

I must say, it is fascinating that at the nadir of her popularity, anti-Brexit Theresa “I have no plan whatsoever except to ask nicely a fourth time and hope they concede everything” May won the vote of no confidence, suggesting that the Tories either support her Brexit stance or think that if they throw her out they will lose enough support that they will be unable to form a new government within the deadline (thereby letting mr pro-Brexit Jezzz in). Party politics run strong I guess, and nobody wants to be the person to replace May into this clustertruck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 07, 2019, 06:40:52 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on February 07, 2019, 03:39:37 am

I must say, it is fascinating that at the nadir of her popularity, anti-Brexit Theresa “I have no plan whatsoever except to ask nicely a fourth time and hope they concede everything” May won the vote of no confidence, suggesting that the Tories either support her Brexit stance or think that if they throw her out they will lose enough support that they will be unable to form a new government within the deadline (thereby letting mr pro-Brexit Jezzz in). Party politics run strong I guess, and nobody wants to be the person to replace May into this clustertruck.

Well you have the Remain Tories, who form the majority of Theresa May's "support." Which is to say they agree with her in sentiment, but disagree with her plan - most Remain Tories fall within some spectrum of reluctant leave support, desire to remain within EU institutions, or calls to cancel Brexit altogether. Then there's the Leave backbenchers, of which you could probably more neatly divide them into the Leave liberal Tories and the Leave conservative Tories, and of course there's the DUP. All of the latter disagree with Theresa May in sentiment & plan.

All three supported Theresa May enough that she didn't get the caput caput. Needless to say no one of those parties would agree with one another, let alone Theresa May, but they would prefer to work with her zombie government than Corbyn's curious cabinet, though I am absolutely fascinated as to what Corbyn's government would look like. In all probability the scenario that likely got Theresa May to survive barely, was the notion that Theresa May's successor would fail to form a government, Corbyn would fail to form a government, and then the UK would leave the EU with no government. So we'd get another general election and it'd be anyone's guess what'd happen then

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 07, 2019, 09:22:28 am

Ugh, I wish March would come sooner so they have less opportunity to screw the whole thing up with "the only and best possible deal".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 07, 2019, 12:02:29 pm

In news besides Brexit, France and Italy are having some kind of diplomatic spat (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-recalls-ambassador-to-italy-over-romes-repeated-attacks/). The cause sounds something like the equvalent of Italy acting like Donald Trump without the benefit of being a Great Power. Though one person in the comments said that France is the one who insulted Italy, so, I don't really know the details other than that they're obviously having a spat which has escalated to recalling an ambassador.

Edit: BBC has more information (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47161500), don't know why Politico doesn't make more effort to put in more info. My first impression of it of Italy basically acting like jerks seems mostly correct.

@ earlier discussion on Theresa May, etc: I wonder if they'd be more inclined to oust her once Brexit crashes through and things go all south and pear shaped.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 07, 2019, 01:28:34 pm

That would depend on how directly she can be tied to the hypothetical issues.

Most likely she'll not last anyway. Her government all leans on the imperative of Brexit; once that is gone, she'll find most 'allies' bedfellows by necessity, not love.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2019, 03:51:06 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/iPmoIwO.jpg)

>communists
>fascists
>anarcho-liberals
>jacobins
I finally get why all my vic2 rebels join sides now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2019, 08:46:36 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2019, 03:51:06 am

>jacoinbits

Furksed thut fu yu

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2019, 05:25:04 pm

>not cryptoliberals

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 11, 2019, 05:38:13 pm

Democchain-

Deblockracychain-

Uh, Mockchain-


...fuck it. Bitcunts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 11, 2019, 05:39:11 pm

Democurrency

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2019, 01:16:36 pm

Leaders of Catalonian independence bid put on trial in spicy point of Spanish politics (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47211041)

*EDIT
Also there were two separate acid attacks in the same day in London today. Just fuck my capital up fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 12, 2019, 01:47:54 pm

"Just give me a little more time" (https://www.vox.com/2019/2/12/18221739/theresa-may-speech-parliament-brexit-backstop) says Theresa May. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47206286) But she's had two years to 'give me a little more time'. If she really needed more time, she would have asked for a delay on the cutoff date. Then again, from what I've heard, Brussels refuses to give more time unless it's for a REALLY good reason like a second referendum or a snap election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 14, 2019, 06:14:20 pm

"No no, see, it's not environmentally damaging to approve for two new copper mines (http://norwaytoday.info/finance/mining-sami-kvalsund/) to open up and start dumping two million tons of industrial mining waste every year into a fjord with a protected salmon habitat, because global warming is in the environment and we need wind farms to stop global warming and wind farms cost money but mining makes money. It all adds up!"

"Also it's not like it's gonna hurt the ecosystem or anything... The mining company's experts said that it was perfectly safe."

"Yes I know we've said that we're not going to allow any more dumping into fjords, but they filed the application before we said that so now we kinda have to give them the go-ahead, y'know?"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2019, 08:59:50 pm

Quote

“We are confident that the deposit will not occur with unacceptable effects to either the environment or the seafood industry, the Minister of Industry,” Røe Isaksen asserts.

"unacceptable effects" AN INTERESTING CHOICE OF WORDS DICKHEAD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 15, 2019, 07:13:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 14, 2019, 08:59:50 pm

Quote

“We are confident that the deposit will not occur with unacceptable effects to either the environment or the seafood industry, the Minister of Industry,” Røe Isaksen asserts.

"unacceptable effects" AN INTERESTING CHOICE OF WORDS DICKHEAD

Yep... And that's even a direct translation. No mysterious word-twisting going on there; just pure, sweet fuckery.

"We have accepted the inevitable results, and therefore they're no longer unacceptable!"


In other news, at least the government is finally taking a stance on the increasing inner-city violence and incidence rate of stabbings around the capital... They are, of course, going to solve this issue by mandating a curfew for children aged 14 and younger (https://www.tv2.no/a/10414685/) (article is in Norwegian).

The gist of it is; no one younger than 15 is allowed to be outside after 11 PM. If you are a youngster and are outside after 11 PM, your parents will receive criminal fines. If your family is reliant on government payments such as unemployment benefits, disability etc., then those payments will also be cancelled as punishment.

"Criminal youth have little respect for the government, but paradoxically enough they often have respect for their parents."


This, of course, is the only course of action to take in this situation. I'm assured that there will be no unacceptable consequences arising because of this initiative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2019, 07:21:07 am

Quote from: Kagus on February 15, 2019, 07:13:24 am

The gist of it is; no one younger than 15 is allowed to be outside after 11 PM. If you are a youngster and are outside after 11 PM, your parents will receive criminal fines. If your family is reliant on government payments such as unemployment benefits, disability etc., then those payments will also be cancelled as punishment.

This is wrong on so many levels.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 15, 2019, 07:24:08 am

Hey, my 14 year old self was killed by a 15 year old.

Who also happened to be me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2019, 10:42:09 am

What happens if they've no parents

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2019, 11:08:22 am

Two random people on unemployment benefits will have their benefits cancelled, ofcourse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 15, 2019, 11:18:22 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2019, 10:42:09 am

What happens if they've no parents

Well, obviously, they get put into juvie until they can find an appropriate foster family to assign them to.

And then they take them away from the foster family, because Child Services is also public assistance.


This is some hilarious bullshit right after the other hilarious bullshit, and I only heard about it when my granddad commented on the article saying how much he agreed with the measure, because "They have no business being outside at that time anyways".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on February 15, 2019, 10:38:30 pm

While the punishment is absurd, I don't really know how much say a 12 year old has to do after 11 pm anyways

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2019, 10:59:33 pm

At least in this day and age kids can console themselves with late night vidya

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on February 16, 2019, 03:13:13 am

Why are they even considering this at all? Are all the stabbers always 14-year-olds?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on February 16, 2019, 03:58:14 am

I could understand if the intention was to protect children from negligent parents by coercing parents into providing proper supervision.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 16, 2019, 04:33:59 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on February 16, 2019, 03:13:13 am

Why are they even considering this at all? Are all the stabbers always 14-year-olds?

A few actually are. There have been small numbers of 14-year-olds being "involved" in stabbings one way or another over the past year or two. Considerably more involve the 17-20 range.

I've actually seen "12-year-old outside at night" in action. GF's mom is currently a single mother for two kids aged 15 and 13, and she tends to send them out on errands because it's already pretty chaotic trying to keep things together as-is without back-problems mom being the only one running around doing stuff. Things like grabbing some last-minute bag of flour from the gas station or picking up dinner from the pizzeria down the street (generally just on the weekends when bedtimes are less strictly enforced, but they're all night owls the rest of the time anyways).

And they're not even one of the low-income families who are really struggling. But yeah, if this actually becomes law, that late-night grocery run could slap the mom with some hefty fines and snip any social programs she's using like communal child support.

Quote from: thompson on February 16, 2019, 03:58:14 am

I could understand if the intention was to protect children from negligent parents by coercing parents into providing proper supervision.

This is part of the argument, yeah. It's sitting next to the unmentioned part called "these damn Muslim immigrants are flooding the streets with their criminality because they're horrible monsters and the kids are emulating them", which comes from the usual cultural split that tends to lead to the kind of ostracism that isolates kids and makes them lash out in the first place. It's also been a problem longer than we've had a significant immigrant population ("significant" in the sense of "Now we're going to pay attention to the fact that you're an immigrant").


But yeah, the most disagreeable part of this thing is definitely the punishment being inordinate and loaded with the potential to make things a lot worse. Or, at least, it's the worst part if you don't put as much importance on whether or not the government dictates when you can and cannot be outside.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on February 17, 2019, 03:44:33 am

I find it bizarre that there should be a link between immigrants and delinquency, unless of course the delinquents are predominantly immigrants. But there would have to be some deeper cause underlying it, as no sane person chooses to have their children commit crimes at night. A large part of this is probably caused by the breakdown of the nuclear family, leading to the rise of time-poor single parents who simply don't have the capacity to provide adequate supervision/support as they are always bogged down with pressing matters such as earning money to pay rent and whatnot. Then you have a generation who view all of this as normal, and the cycle continues. I can't see much the government can do here (unless you're ok with China's methods of dealing with this sort of thing), and punitive measures obviously won't address the fundamental problem of lack of time.

Time for a 30-hour work week, or am I crazy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2019, 12:57:59 pm

Nuclear family is just a breakdown of the extended family tqbh and is not a working model to begin with

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on February 17, 2019, 01:08:43 pm

A curfew for younger kids isn't necessarily a bad idea, but research is needed to see the effects.

Maybe the 14 year olds aren't "stabbers" but 14 is the typical age at which these kids are inducted into a youth gang, when they're impressionable and can be influenced by the older 16-18 year old members. Putting a curfew in place could be more like long-term thinking, because you've disrupted the cycle of recruitment: the decisions one makes at 14 are going to be very different to the decisions one makes at 16.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 17, 2019, 03:57:38 pm

The punishment is still completely ridiculous, even if a state-mandated curfew of its citizens is a good idea.


Anyways, there've been a couple updates regarding those new copper mines up in northern Norway. See, all the filthy youths have banded together to stop the bad man, and so the case is getting a bit more public recognition. Random bystanders and other experts are being asked their opinions.

Frederic Hauge, who is a large man with bad hair and also head/co-founder of environmentalist NGO "The Bellona Foundation" says "Yes, I may have chained myself to a dump truck several years ago to prevent a mine from offloading waste into our beautiful fjords, but this time is different".

"If the mine doesn't get to dump directly into the water, then that means there's simply not going to be a mine at all. There are no other alternatives. And we need this mine."

The main arguments seem to be that green things like electric cars and wind turbines all require a great big load of copper in order to make. So, in order for Norway to properly go green, we need a lot more copper. But we can't buy it from other countries, because Norway has really good environmental protection laws and standards in place, which means that if we buy it from somewhere else we're actually making things even worse by supporting someone with lower standards than ours. We need to get the copper ourselves, to make sure that nothing environmentally untoward happens. Like, say, dumping a fuckload of heavy metals into a protected fish habitat.

"But why not dump it somewhere on land?"

Well, we can't do that, because that'd probably piss off the native Samis. And we don't want anyone to think that we're not listening to the native populations. Especially not after that little ordeal with them getting pissed off about us not listening to them when they said they didn't want the mine to dump shit in their fishing grounds.


Hope that clears things up a bit. You see, we actually really need to damage the environment and walk over the natives; so that we can avoid damaging the environment and walking over the natives. It's the lesser of two evils, you understand.

Asked for comment, the PM said "I understand that there's been an official complaint filed, therefore I can't say anything because I'm part of the complaint board."

This is only technically incorrect, as the permission for dumping has already had an official complaint filed and processed, and since that got denied then the case cannot have another complaint filed against it at all.


"Nature and Youth"-leader Gaute Eiterfjord (it's a weird name in Norwegian too) was asked to provide a counterargument to Hauge's statement about there being no alternatives. Mr. Eiterfjord replied with "u focking wot".

He provided no further details as to how he looks like he's simultaneously 14 and 40 years old.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: redwallzyl on February 17, 2019, 04:17:21 pm

There was something like that in Michigan, they avoided pollution by just mining from the bottom up so all the waste rock just got used as filler and they did not need to dump it anywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 17, 2019, 04:35:07 pm

Including the sludge? Which seems to be the point of contention here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2019, 09:40:23 pm

Quote from: Kagus on February 17, 2019, 03:57:38 pm

Hope that clears things up a bit. You see, we actually really need to damage the environment and walk over the natives; so that we can avoid damaging the environment and walking over the natives. It's the lesser of two evils, you understand.

Best comment

Quote

"Nature and Youth"-leader Gaute Eiterfjord (it's a weird name in Norwegian too) was asked to provide a counterargument to Hauge's statement about there being no alternatives. Mr. Eiterfjord replied with "u focking wot".

He provided no further details as to how he looks like he's simultaneously 14 and 40 years old.

I googled him. While most pictures do seem to make him look like a youngster, I found that his norwegian wikipedia picture gives him the awkward feature of a man whose smile starts at his eyes but doesn't quite reach his mouth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on February 17, 2019, 11:44:28 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2019, 12:57:59 pm

Nuclear family is just a breakdown of the extended family tqbh and is not a working model to begin with

You'll never have a perfect model, but I suspect time scarcity is one of the root causes here, and having two adults objectively improves that metric. Other factors are things like substance abuse, poverty and lack of opportunity, but they're all interrelated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 19, 2019, 06:30:17 am

For fuck's sake Norway, please hit the stupid brakes (https://www.nrk.no/norge/dette-er-regjeringens-forlag-til-endring-i-abortloven-1.14437295?fbclid=IwAR2Vd04TO6NMHX5lhMw3x78gK4sGCPIACH640yK2oz_5Nv4nkUeOEmGHpPU).

Quote

"When abortion laws were adopted in the 70's, it wasn't technically feasible to abort one twin and keep the other. New technology has made this possible, which raises some difficult ethical questions"

So to fix this, we're just going to disallow women from having said abortions unless they apply for and are granted a special concession from an appeals board.

Quote

"The woman's evaluation of her own situation will be given consideration" says Minister of Health Bent Høie.

(emphasis mine)

He goes on to clarify that this is definitely not an attack on women's rights to their own body, because they're still allowed to have full abortions. But if you become pregnant with twins and want one kid but not two, you're shit outta luck. All or nothing, baby!


To quote the enlightened Minister of Children, Family and Church Affairs Kjell Ingolf Ropstad:

Quote

"If you can carry one child to term, you can carry two."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 19, 2019, 07:03:01 am

Why do people keep forgetting about adoption

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 07:33:56 am

Women's rights > Right to Life.

Or, indeed, father's rights.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 19, 2019, 09:54:22 am

To be fair, if you can choose to keep one healthy child and reject the other healthy child when you can safely carry and deliver both of them, then I feel like you're only one step away from eugenics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 19, 2019, 10:10:04 am

Even under the best of circumstances, pregnancy and birth are extremely taxing on a woman's body, even more so when dealing with more than one at a time. I don't really feel that it should be a committee's decision as to whether or not a woman should carry both children to term just because they've decided that she's physically capable of surviving the affair (and of course it's rather difficult to accurately predict the chance of complications before the fact).

Additionally, there's the economic aspect, both time and money-wise. You might be able to afford and provide for one child in acceptable standards, but arranging for two of them at the same time adds that much more of a tax on your situation, and you may end up providing a lesser living standard for both children (and yourself, of course). As for time economy, for as much as twins get memed in popular depictions, it's still important to give them attention and love as individuals and not just as part of a two-set. It's a shitty thing to say that you "don't have time" to give that kind of dedication to two kids individually, but some people live with harsh constraints. They might've been able to push things around to spend on one child, but two is again pushing how much quality time you can give to each.


And, of course, the pressing question... If it's alright to abort one child in a single pregnancy, why is it specifically not alright to only abort one in a double pregnancy?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 19, 2019, 02:14:22 pm

Quote from: Kagus on February 19, 2019, 10:10:04 am

1. Even under the best of circumstances, pregnancy and birth are extremely taxing on a woman's body, even more so when dealing with more than one at a time. I don't really feel that it should be a committee's decision as to whether or not a woman should carry both children to term just because they've decided that she's physically capable of surviving the affair (and of course it's rather difficult to accurately predict the chance of complications before the fact).

2. Additionally, there's the economic aspect, both time and money-wise. You might be able to afford and provide for one child in acceptable standards, but arranging for two of them at the same time adds that much more of a tax on your situation, and you may end up providing a lesser living standard for both children (and yourself, of course). As for time economy, for as much as twins get memed in popular depictions, it's still important to give them attention and love as individuals and not just as part of a two-set. It's a shitty thing to say that you "don't have time" to give that kind of dedication to two kids individually, but some people live with harsh constraints. They might've been able to push things around to spend on one child, but two is again pushing how much quality time you can give to each.


3. And, of course, the pressing question... If it's alright to abort one child in a single pregnancy, why is it specifically not alright to only abort one in a double pregnancy?

1. From what I understand, the comittee doesn't determine whether the mother *should* give birth to twins but whether she'll survive the ordeal. Indeed, if it is deemed that the mother is able to carry both fetuses to term then most likely it would be decided that she should do so. If her body would fail to carry both fetuses to term then, by all means, she should consider aborting one or both of them.
2. If you don't want to care for one of the newborns then you can give it up for adoption. You aren't forced to take in both of them, from what I understand. [sarcasm] Of course, this is Norway, so you can always just yeet the baby straight into the sea. If you can dump industrial waste into the sea, why not slam dunk children into the ocean? [/sarcasm]
3. Is it okay to abort a baby when a feasible alternative is present? After all, if the mother carries one of the fetuses to term then she likely could carry both.

I'm not saying I agree with the policy, but it's not utterly unreasonable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 03:36:11 pm

Abortion seems like a distasteful but potentially necessary practice. If the mother is incapable of bearing the child, or if their life is in danger, certainly. Life should not come at the direct expense of life. If the mother simply doesn't want a child? No. I will not be part of condoning what is essentially the premature termination of life. There is more at stake here than simply letting the woman do what she wants so that her gender is empowered. A future, a life, hangs in the balance. There are also more people invested than simply the woman - as I said before, the father no doubt has a strong opinion, one way or another (remember folks, it's only sexism to ignore and marginalise women).

To tie in with the issue of aborting twins, the same criteria is used. Will the mother die? Are there severe medical complications? If so, then it is an unpleasant necessity. Does the mother only want one child? Then no, she shouldn't go through the procedure. Even if you worry that two children won't feel as loved as one or that they won't be treated individually. The choice is between the termination of an entire life or respecting someone's decision. It may be an uncomfortable choice, but it is one which in my opinion should only go one way.

This is a matter which all too often becomes mired in gender politics. "Mothers shouldn't abort unless absolutely necessary" draws feminists like flies to honey. It is perceived as an attack on femininity. Not so. If men were to bear children, the issues would be the same. Life transcends such trivialities as gender politics - this should be reflected in common attitudes towards abortion. But it's not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on February 19, 2019, 04:00:22 pm

If the potential to become life is the main criteria here, that means both periods and masturbation are murder, since they are killing something that has the potential to become a life

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 04:30:41 pm

No, they don't. A zygote has the potential to become life (indeed, may be thought of as already being alive). The gametes do not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 19, 2019, 04:35:17 pm

What do you even mean? All living cells are alive.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 19, 2019, 04:37:21 pm

Don't feign obtuse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 19, 2019, 04:39:06 pm

I'm not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 04:39:34 pm

Yes?

By "potential of life" should I specify complicated life? In particular human life?

Well, ninjas. But I'll post anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 19, 2019, 04:53:08 pm

Ah, fuck it. Changed my mind. Not gonna engage. You guys carry on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 19, 2019, 05:22:25 pm

The issue is that you're pitting the potential (which, at the time of abortion, isn't capable of acknowledging the fact that it has or can have a life) of one life versus the rights of another to control their own life. Someone else is deciding what a woman can and cannot do with her own body, because of that other person's definitions of what is and is not life.

It's not a matter of empowering gender, it's a matter of allowing individuals to have some say in what happens to their life. Yes, the same would absolutely apply if men could/did bear children. The right to having a life doesn't mean a great deal if you're only allowed to have a life that is determined by the opinions of someone entirely removed from you. And pregnancy/birth are a considerably more personal and immediate impact on someone's life than the abstract of communal laws and norms, before anyone gets started on that.


As for adoption? I have to admit, I fail to see how it's morally preferable to give life to a child and then hand them off to an immensely fault-laden system to potentially drag out the rest of their existence hurt, ostracized, and forever wondering why they were abandoned; rather than simply stopping them from ever being a person to begin with, before they can be hurt or feel loss. But that's just my view of the subject.


And if it's viewed as being worth any consideration, a fair percentage of the very few people to actually utilize this option while it was still legally available (I believe the number was around 12 operations per year on average, for the entire country?) were women who had previously experienced extreme difficulty conceiving, and had sought help via fertility treatments. Fertility treatments which, coincidentally, have a disproportionate chance of resulting in twins.

So women who were otherwise more or less prevented from having children would get expensive and complicated medical help, finally reach a success, discover that they were pregnant with twins, and then be handed an ultimatum that they would either get more than they bargained for or have to terminate the entire affair.

So, yes, this ruling makes no sense because the moral authority of the Christian People's Party has decided that it is more ethically defensible to terminate two embryos than it is to just terminate the one while bringing the other to term, because abortion itself is still allowed (until they manage to get their hands on that as well, which they originally tried to do by saying that abortion laws are discriminatory against people with Downs).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 06:08:50 pm

Quote

Which, at the time of abortion, isn't capable of acknowledging the fact that it has or can have a life

So awareness of life is an important determining factor? Ought we to pull the cord on all comatose patients? However, I presume your intention is to highlight the lack of self-awareness as an important determining factor? I suppose I can understand that, though I think of it more as being asleep rather than being non existent. With the dawn, awareness will come. Please don't kill me in my sleep.

Quote

Someone else is deciding what a woman can and cannot do with her own body, because of that other person's definitions of what is and is not life.

Should women therefore be allowed to commit suicide - to slit their own wrists? Can she assault others with impunity? Can a woman truly do whatever she wishes with her own body? No. We draw the line at bodily harm - whether of herself or of others.

I presume that in answering this we can all agree that, in actuality, women should not be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodies. But then, of course, we come to the complication - ah, but there is no bodily harm here, for I define life differently from you! Perhaps you do. And is it therefore somehow morally reprehensible for me to refuse to stand by while something which I find profoundly more damaging than self-harm occurs? Simply because there are competing definitions?

Quote

It's not a matter of empowering gender, it's a matter of allowing individuals to have some say in what happens to their life. Yes, the same would absolutely apply if men could/did bear children. The right to having a life doesn't mean a great deal if you're only allowed to have a life that is determined by the opinions of someone entirely removed from you. And pregnancy/birth are a considerably more personal and immediate impact on someone's life than the abstract of communal laws and norms, before anyone gets started on that.

There are some widely accepted instances in which individuals should emphatically not have a say. See previous examples of self-harm and suicide, both of which I'm sure you'll agree are personal and have a huge impact on someone's life.

Quote

As for adoption? I have to admit, I fail to see how it's morally preferable to give life to a child and then hand them off to an immensely fault-laden system to potentially drag out the rest of their existence hurt, ostracized, and forever wondering why they were abandoned; rather than simply stopping them from ever being a person to begin with, before they can be hurt or feel loss. But that's just my view of the subject.

Ask an orphan in a schoolyard where he has been ostracised by all the other children whether he would prefer to not exist. See what he answers. Your kindness is the kindness of the surgical knife. Rational, perhaps, but entirely disassociated from compassion.

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So women who were otherwise more or less prevented from having children would get expensive and complicated medical help, finally reach a success, discover that they were pregnant with twins, and then be handed an ultimatum that they would either get more than they bargained for or have to terminate the entire affair.

By my reasoning they would indeed have to deal with getting more than they bargained for. And I ask it again, just as it seems not to factor into most peoples' considerations - does no one care if the father gets what he 'bargained for'?

Quote

So, yes, this ruling makes no sense because the moral authority of the Christian People's Party has decided that it is more ethically defensible to terminate two embryos than it is to just terminate the one while bringing the other to term, because abortion itself is still allowed (until they manage to get their hands on that as well, which they originally tried to do by saying that abortion laws are discriminatory against people with Downs).

Yes, seems like they're handling their desire to curtail abortion in a rather self defeating manner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 19, 2019, 06:31:36 pm

The father actually gets less say in matters now than previously. Before it was the woman who made the choice, and therefore the man could communicate his wishes directly with her. Now there is an "impartial" panel of officials who will determine what happens, and who does not follow any regulations stating that they should listen to what the father has to say; only that they should take how the woman describes her own condition into consideration.


I could also argue about how an unconscious adult is notably different from a non-conscious fetus, or how being able to decide over your own body is not condoning of assault (in fact it's the exact opposite, but whatever), but it's evident that you want to maintain your moral crusade and there's little chance that I'm going to be swayed from my position either.


Instead, let us meditate on the futility of Norway, scrotum-like topograhy as it has, trying to invest heavily in land-based wind farms. Because clearly that is the best and least environmentally destructive alternative when looking for renewable energy sources.

Nevermind that you only get about 20% the turbine density and need three times the service roads as an actually flat country; we shall have a big wind, by the æsir!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 06:36:22 pm

"Here's a series of reasons why you're wrong, now let's look at wind turbines instead of continuing discussion."

0_o

Okay then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on February 19, 2019, 06:45:58 pm

i mean, i still think i deserve at least some praise for smoothly transitioning from abortion to baby pollution

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 19, 2019, 06:50:30 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
"the committee acts as a forum for discussion"
a conversation or debate about a specific topic.
plural noun: discussions
"discussions about environmental improvement"
synonyms:   conversation, talk, dialogue, discourse, conference, debate, exchange of views, consultation, deliberation; More
a detailed treatment of a topic in speech or writing.
"see Appendix One, for a more detailed discussion"

What we were doing definitely fulfils one or more of those criteria :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on February 19, 2019, 08:19:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

I'm pretty sure that's what discussions ARE, or at least ones aimed at changing someone else's opinion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 08:28:50 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on February 19, 2019, 08:19:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

I'm pretty sure that's what discussions ARE, or at least ones aimed at changing someone else's opinion

If don’t think either person in this instance was going to change their stance, regardless what the other said.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on February 19, 2019, 09:12:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 08:28:50 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on February 19, 2019, 08:19:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

I'm pretty sure that's what discussions ARE, or at least ones aimed at changing someone else's opinion

If don’t think either person in this instance was going to change their stance, regardless what the other said.

I think you're wrong. Here's why:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 10:03:32 pm

Quote from: George_Chickens on February 19, 2019, 09:12:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 08:28:50 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on February 19, 2019, 08:19:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 19, 2019, 06:42:12 pm

You're not really discussing, more going "You're wrong, here's why" "no you're wrong, here's why" "but you're still wrong because" "ah but you're also wrong because"

I'm pretty sure that's what discussions ARE, or at least ones aimed at changing someone else's opinion

If don’t think either person in this instance was going to change their stance, regardless what the other said.

I think you're wrong. Here's why: akshuli ur ryt ‘cause yur awsum

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2019, 12:27:22 am

I would caution against the termination of one of the twins simply because of the uncertainty as to whether it is the evil twin or the other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2019, 12:42:23 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2019, 12:27:22 am

I would caution against the termination of one of the twins simply because of the uncertainty as to whether it is the evil twin or the other.

Just assess which one has a goatee beforehand. Should be simple

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on February 20, 2019, 02:05:42 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2019, 12:42:23 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2019, 12:27:22 am

I would caution against the termination of one of the twins simply because of the uncertainty as to whether it is the evil twin or the other.

Just assess which one has a goatee beforehand. Should be simple

But what if the evil twin sticks the goatee on the good twin?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 20, 2019, 02:57:57 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on February 20, 2019, 02:05:42 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 20, 2019, 12:42:23 am

Quote from: scriver on February 20, 2019, 12:27:22 am

I would caution against the termination of one of the twins simply because of the uncertainty as to whether it is the evil twin or the other.

Just assess which one has a goatee beforehand. Should be simple

But what if the evil twin sticks the goatee on the good twin?

Terminate them both, just in case the evil is contagious. Alternatively, start long drawn-out story arc about how the evil twin fakes being a good twin until the good twin comes back and kills him, probably by accident while trying to save the evil twin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 20, 2019, 10:54:58 pm

Sounds like the UK forgot about the isle of Guernsey, which is going to end up with the same freedom of movement issues the UK is so worried about for NI. (https://www.politico.eu/article/for-guernsey-free-movement-loss-is-a-double-whammy/)

I wonder how many other island dependencies that are part of the British Isles but not part of the UK are getting hit like this. This appears to be, from my perspective, a little known or considered aspect of Brexit, it's effects on the dependencies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 21, 2019, 05:50:45 am

Yesterday, a British judge ruled the the EMA (European Medicines Agency) will still be bound to pay rent for their office in London, even when they have moved out to settle in the Netherlands.
The rental contract is set to run until 2039.
This will cost the EMA 560 million euros, unless they can find someone to sublease it to.
The EMA had claimed that the Brexit was an unforseen circumstance that would allow them to cancel the rent, but the judge ruled otherwise.
This ruling can have costly consequences for a lot of other companies with long term rental contracts that are leaving the UK because of the Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 27, 2019, 06:30:51 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-syria-soldiers-kurds-ypg-turkey-britain-a8793081.html?amp

Rather interesting article touching upon something I hadn't even thought about before. I mean, one thing is the foreign radicals who go over to join up with ISIS, but I'd never really considered that westerners would go over to fight against them in a paramilitary capacity... Which I suppose is a fairly radical act itself.

It brings up some interesting questions as to the morality or rationality of such an approach.

It also begs the question: Are millenials killing the terrorism industry?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 27, 2019, 08:11:21 am

Just stick the fem-libs on them. They're not much in a fight, but they make up for it in zeal and numbers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on February 27, 2019, 08:31:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 21, 2019, 05:50:45 am

Yesterday, a British judge ruled the the EMA (European Medicines Agency) will still be bound to pay rent for their office in London, even when they have moved out to settle in the Netherlands.
The rental contract is set to run until 2039.
This will cost the EMA 560 million euros, unless they can find someone to sublease it to.
The EMA had claimed that the Brexit was an unforseen circumstance that would allow them to cancel the rent, but the judge ruled otherwise.
This ruling can have costly consequences for a lot of other companies with long term rental contracts that are leaving the UK because of the Brexit.

lol just move out and don't pay. Once Brexit happens the UK rent collectors won't be able to go over the border. You can just stand on the French edge of the chunnel and  jeer at them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 27, 2019, 09:12:01 am

I'm not sure whether you meant to say Tunnel or Channel, or whether it was an intentional amalgamation of the two - i.e., 'stand on the French side of the Tunnel, which is under the Channel."

:P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 27, 2019, 09:13:00 am

It's the chunder tunnel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 27, 2019, 11:12:56 am

Eh? Hasn't it been called the 'chunnel' from almost the start?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 27, 2019, 12:13:29 pm

*Shrug*
First I've heard of it, but it's not as if I'm anywhere nearby. The UK is dark and full of terrors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Criptfeind on February 27, 2019, 04:03:04 pm

I've always heard it colloquially called the chunnel, and and google seems to know what you mean if you write in chunnel. But on the other hand I'm also very far from the UK. So no idea if the people that actually use it call it that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on February 28, 2019, 12:53:17 am

Quote from: Kagus on February 27, 2019, 06:30:51 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-syria-soldiers-kurds-ypg-turkey-britain-a8793081.html?amp

Rather interesting article touching upon something I hadn't even thought about before. I mean, one thing is the foreign radicals who go over to join up with ISIS, but I'd never really considered that westerners would go over to fight against them in a paramilitary capacity... Which I suppose is a fairly radical act itself.

It brings up some interesting questions as to the morality or rationality of such an approach.

It also begs the question: Are millenials killing the terrorism industry?

There was an interesting story recently regarding this matter, though it's not technically EU.  One such Swiss fighter was charged with violating Swiss law by fighting for a foreign military (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47319581); the Pontifical Swiss Guard aside, Swiss mercenaries have been out of sorts since the 19th century.  A fine and suspended sentence is a rather typical if mild punishment for violation of this law.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on February 28, 2019, 03:28:31 am

Quote from: Culise on February 28, 2019, 12:53:17 am

Quote from: Kagus on February 27, 2019, 06:30:51 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-syria-soldiers-kurds-ypg-turkey-britain-a8793081.html?amp

Rather interesting article touching upon something I hadn't even thought about before. I mean, one thing is the foreign radicals who go over to join up with ISIS, but I'd never really considered that westerners would go over to fight against them in a paramilitary capacity... Which I suppose is a fairly radical act itself.

It brings up some interesting questions as to the morality or rationality of such an approach.

It also begs the question: Are millenials killing the terrorism industry?

There was an interesting story recently regarding this matter, though it's not technically EU.  One such Swiss fighter was charged with violating Swiss law by fighting for a foreign military (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47319581); the Pontifical Swiss Guard aside, Swiss mercenaries have been out of sorts since the 19th century.  A fine and suspended sentence is a rather typical if mild punishment for violation of this law.

Theres quite a difference between a Swiss soldier fighting for an allied country vs joining a terrorist group.

A thought though, if Europe ever does do a consolidated Pan-European army/military, how will the Swiss reconcile that law with a Pan-European army? I get that they have a policy of neutrality (or at least the appearance of being neutral, if not True Neutral in actuality (yes, I decided to throw that DnD joke in there)), but I dont think they want to be completely excluded from anything Pan-European, that'd be like, I dunno, Nebraska being an independent state, it'd be a hole in the middle of the continent. That's just my perspective as an American anyway.

edit: Also, is the fine based on 19th century currency? Maybe it hit harder back then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 28, 2019, 04:30:08 am

The Swiss are not part of the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 28, 2019, 04:38:11 am

Quote from: smjjames on February 28, 2019, 03:28:31 am

Theres quite a difference between a Swiss soldier fighting for an allied country vs joining a terrorist group.

But therein lies the rub, doesn't it? Does the SDF or YPG actually count as a terrorist group? Does that definition spread to all paramilitary groups? If a civilian owns a gun and fires on a hostile paramilitary, does that make him a terrorist? Or only once his buddies join in to help? Maybe you need a silly acronym to really qualify, I don't know.

There's a little snippet that's linked to from the Swiss dude article, and it mentions a man who was tried for doing the same thing; joining up with the YPG and fighting alongside them (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45017016). The trickiness comes from the UK supporting the YPG and having sent them resources in an official capacity. If you then condemn someone who aided them as having "assisted a terrorist organization", then you kinda shoot yourself in the foot.


I mean, there are definitely very real issues with having people join up with random paramilitaries. ISIS is a great example of that; I'm sure the foreign nationals who joined IS all felt really vindicated for "helping the good guys". Armed forces of that sort are by definition less controlled and have fewer checks and balances, and that's usually a bad mix with the kind of power that lethal weaponry provides.

But from a practical point of view... Are the national militaries really that much better? In theory they should be, because they're supposed to have the intel from an established and trained system, plus a very large and very public organization that is to be held accountable for any breaches in international agreements its armed forces commit. But the actual effectiveness of those organs and how much they apply to the battlefield are sometimes a little sketchy, and then there's the question of whether or not they're doing enough. After all, inaction isn't a war crime; so it's generally "safe" to hang back and not do anything while others get slaughtered, displaced, or tortured.


It's a non-trivial ethical dilemma, and that makes me want to poke it with sticks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on February 28, 2019, 05:50:29 am

Since random paramilitaries is a fairly low bar so far as ethical standards are concerned, I think it is fair to say most professional militaries are much, much better. You could argue they also have greater responsibility I suppose, but then you're really comparing them with an idealised version of themselves rather than paramilitary forces. So, both are problematic, but one is an order of magnitude or so better than the other for all practical purposes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 28, 2019, 06:44:28 am

In my mind the problem is less that people were joining a foreign military or militia or whatever (which is nothing new, see the Spanish Civil war for a famous example, hell, even Lord Byron died while fighting for Greek independence from the Ottoman Empire). The problem is what ISIS stands for and what they did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 28, 2019, 06:45:42 am

Quote from: scriver on February 28, 2019, 06:44:28 am

In my mind the problem is less that people were joining a foreign military or militia or whatever (which is nothing new, see the Spanish Civil war for a famous example, hell, even Lord Byron died while fighting for Greek independence from the Ottoman Empire). The problem is what ISIS stands for and what they did.

QFT

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on February 28, 2019, 10:02:30 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 28, 2019, 04:30:08 am

The Swiss are not part of the EU

Hence why I mentioned it's technically not EU news, though it is related to the topic that was at hand. :P

But yes, as far as I can tell, the Swiss constitutional amendment in question makes no provision for allied powers or terrorists, just foreign militaries in general; my jest on banning Swiss mercenaries does have truth behind it.  It doesn't matter if the Swiss citizen served in ISIS or YPG, or given the example in that news story, the French Foreign Legion. 

Well, that's not perfectly accurate, either.  If you fought for a proscribed group like ISIS, according to the article, you'd be punished even worse: a potential maximum of 20 years in prison instead of 3 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 01, 2019, 01:55:34 am

Well, IIRC the FFL at least gets you French citizenship.  So the real question is whether you're willing to stop being Swiss.

On the other hand myreply was more for smj:  I dont see the Swiss in a Pan European army for the same reason Idont see Norway:  they're not actually part of the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 09, 2019, 11:42:58 am

So, in other Norwegian mining news... Seems some other mining operation has appealed to develop a rutile mine in Førde, which would then dump its waste into the nearby fjord (this is a different fjord from the last one, just to be clear). So they sent in an application to the government to get the requisite mining and dumping permits, which is currently being worked on even though technically we're still not allowing anyone to dump into the ocean. Except for the ones that we do allow to dump into the ocean.

The Norwegian Society for the Conservation of Nature (Naturvernforbundet) asked for a copy of the application, so that they could see just what kind of dumping operation was being organized and then scale their outrage accordingly.

Spoiler: This was the (low-res) result (click to show/hide)

(http://naturvernforbundet.no/getfile.php/13140693-1552053650/Bilder/Sladding%20av%20s%C3%B8knad%20om%20driftskonsesjon%20feb%202019%281%29.jpg%20%28mobile480%29.jpg)

So, yeah. "As per the wishes of Nordic Mining Inc., the Norwegian Directorate of Mining has decided that certain key details of the mining operation should be classified". This apparently includes such minutiae as: How much expected waste is to be moved and deposited, how fine the waste mass will be upon dumping, method of harvesting the ore, and what routines for subterranean operation will be. Plus just about everything else beyond "digging will be involved. A fjord will also be involved".

The full copy of the application that the Conservation Society received apparently held over a hundred pages that were 100% redacted. They've launched an official complaint, saying that this is honestly kind of ridiculous.


All I have to say is that I, for one, welcome the establishment of a Norwegian branch of the SCP Foundation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 09, 2019, 11:48:37 am

Maybe they are using shoggoths for mining?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 09, 2019, 12:12:15 pm

Or maybe they're planning to dig too deep?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on March 09, 2019, 02:46:06 pm

I much prefer the explanation of 'the Norwegian government is actually covering up Things Man Was Not Meant To Know' over the one of 'the Norwegian government is corrupt, greedy and a puppet of mining corporations'. If you're going to be short-sighted and evil, at least do it in an interesting way!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 11, 2019, 07:53:44 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47533164

Quote

Juncker added: "Let us speak crystal clear about the choice - it is this deal or Brexit might not happen at all."

So "it's this deal or brexit or brexit might not happen." You could have added the "or brexit" bit, rather than imply it, my good friend! (Mistyped as "food friend," kinda want to keep it).

The Eleventh Hour justification has been swept in. Now to see if MPs believe their constituents will buy it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 11, 2019, 09:49:01 pm

It looks like they’ll be negotiating the changes to the backstop while they’re negotiating the future relationship, from my interpretation of the legalese at bedtime.

That’s not much of an assurance, legally binding or otherwise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2019, 10:30:12 pm

They could also extend the Brexit date. However, the only problem with getting an extension, other than Brexiteers going berserk, is that Juncker is saying that they don't have any more chances if it's voted down. Which I think may mean that if it's voted down, that's the end of negotiations, not completely sure.

Besides, it took them THIS long to agree to a small change, what groundbreaking thing are they going to figure out in the next three to six months? These MPs also do have a good point in that an extension for Brexit would hurt businesses who are already preparing for a Brexit crash out on the 29th. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47511848)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 11, 2019, 10:31:27 pm

Brexit will hurt business full-stop, May’s deal, no deal, or otherwise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 11, 2019, 10:38:10 pm

Their point is more that it would be an unneccesary disruption to businesses who are already preparing for Brexit on the 29th.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 04:29:59 am

The UK is also making an unilateral statement to the effect that they might leave the backstop if unhappy.

Which... was already a thing? I mean they probably could do that already, just as they can now. The problem is the fallout.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 12, 2019, 09:46:01 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

Bad architects. :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2019, 10:10:56 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on March 12, 2019, 09:46:01 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

Bad architects. :3

Post-modernist architects can't for the life of them use stone or right angles, of course they can't build a wall - you need to design it to be made of glass, in oblong shapes overhanging the sea for no reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 12, 2019, 10:11:49 am

Just get some chinese to do it (tho be wary of those gosh darned mongorians while you're at it)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 10:51:26 am

What's the point of it all
If you're building a wall...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2019, 10:52:13 am

All in all, we're just another hole in the wall

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2019, 12:47:27 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

I'm guessing from your conclusion that you've watched an extremely biased video.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 12:57:11 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2019, 12:47:27 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

I'm guessing from your conclusion that you've watched an extremely biased video.

I don't really have an opinion on Brexit, European politics is more impenetrable to your average American layperson than even American Politics; so I can't really judge what's going on over there as it all seems steeped in tradition and history that isn't at all obvious to anyone on the outside. Maybe there's a good reason for wanting to break away from the EU, but to uneducated ol' me it just seems like reactionary isolationism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 01:13:20 pm

There may be a bit of a culture clash involved, but 90% of it is definetly the same reactionary isolationism and right wing nationalism that we've been seeing on the rise in the US and in Europe and elsewhere.

In other Brexit related news (besides the impending vote today), when I saw this (https://www.politico.eu/article/ira-claims-responsibility-for-5-bombs-only-4-found/), my first thought was 'Whatever happened to the IRA laying down arms and making peace?', but it sounds like maybe it's a new group that has co-opted the IRA name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 12, 2019, 01:34:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 01:13:20 pm

my first thought was 'Whatever happened to the IRA laying down arms and making peace?', but it sounds like maybe it's a new group that has co-opted the IRA name.

There are at least 4-5 different IRAs at any given time. They're all the real IRA, including the Real IRA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 02:00:08 pm

I didn't know that. I'd only heard of the one which laid down arms and made peace years ago.

I've been seeing on The Guardians liveblog and maybe the BBC liveblog from at least two different sources that May could lose the vote by 100 to 150. Not as bad as the 220 or so last time, but still, ouch.

edit: And now they're voting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 12, 2019, 02:04:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 02:00:08 pm

I didn't know that. I'd only heard of the one which laid down arms and made peace years ago.

Don't worry about it; it's difficult even for the Irish to keep track of. I'm pretty sure the members themselves aren't entirely sure which kind of IRA they're in half the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 12, 2019, 02:09:12 pm

Yea, still an issue. I had a few off-days at school because of local bomb scares.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2019, 03:36:11 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 12:57:11 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2019, 12:47:27 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on March 12, 2019, 08:29:57 am

I watched the CGP Grey video about Brexit and... what is it with English speaking first world countries struggling and failing to build a wall around themselves?

I'm guessing from your conclusion that you've watched an extremely biased video.

I don't really have an opinion on Brexit, European politics is more impenetrable to your average American layperson than even American Politics; so I can't really judge what's going on over there as it all seems steeped in tradition and history that isn't at all obvious to anyone on the outside. Maybe there's a good reason for wanting to break away from the EU, but to uneducated ol' me it just seems like reactionary isolationism.

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 01:13:20 pm

There may be a bit of a culture clash involved, but 90% of it is definetly the same reactionary isolationism and right wing nationalism that we've been seeing on the rise in the US and in Europe and elsewhere.

Well, to begin with, you are equalling wanting to have a sovereign country with isolationalism, which is like. Literally imperialist logic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 12, 2019, 03:42:36 pm

So, how much sovereignty have you guys actually lost by joining the EU, and what do you need it back for?
(it's a serious question)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2019, 03:54:14 pm

(no it isn't)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 04:37:22 pm

UK population decimated by Ibizan super gonorrhea
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/12/inenglish/1552378666_939022.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 12, 2019, 05:19:50 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 04:37:22 pm

UK population decimated by Ibizan super gonorrhea
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/12/inenglish/1552378666_939022.html

Super gonorrhea is a incredible adtion to our EU thread page 666.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 12, 2019, 05:25:45 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 12, 2019, 03:54:14 pm

(no it isn't)

Have it your way. The intent was serious, though. Maybe somebody else will chip in.
I see this lost sovereignty argument used in the local (i.e. Polish) discourse sometimes - since we do have a strong anti-EU sentiment here too - and I'd like somebody explain to me what it actually means for me, as a citizen of a country who supposedly has been deprived of sovereignty to a similar degree as the UK. Apart from some vague notions of national pride, that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 12, 2019, 05:40:43 pm

Yeah, far as I've been able to pick up UK's sovereignty was functionally untouched, barely impacted thanks to all the exceptions it had and often what little was left after that shit they would have been stupid not to do anyway. Most/all of the arguments put forth for brexit were based on ignorance at best, active misinformation and/or open (self-destructive) xenophobia at worst. Continuation of a long media history in the UK of shitting on the EU even (especially) when there was nothing to shit on, to a notable extent.

So far as personal, ground level effects it's going to be nothing but negatives for the majority of the population. It'll mean more nuisance, weaker economy, and so on. Depending on how bad it gets (particularly vis a vis medical supply) the "actual meaning" could go as far as "you get to die because your leadership fucked up the supply chains". Little guy gon' get fucked so the vulture capitalists can make bank and the xenophobes can have their day in the sun.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 05:44:03 pm

If the poles left the EU they would become singular in Europe aka monopoles, and presumably some of those would be magnetic, or at least would become magnetic upon the application of electric currents. As everybody knows magnetic monopoles are useful in the construction of perpetual movement machines, which would turn Poland into a net energy exporter.  Furthermore, they could potentially be used for the construction of a space elevator and EM-drive propulsion, thus kickstarting a potential Polish poliferation through the Solar  (Polar?) System

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 12, 2019, 06:20:28 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 05:44:03 pm

If the poles left the EU they would become singular in Europe aka monopoles, and presumably some of those would be magnetic, or at least would become magnetic upon the application of electric currents. As everybody knows magnetic monopoles are useful in the construction of perpetual movement machines, which would turn Poland into a net energy exporter.  Furthermore, they could potentially be used for the construction of a space elevator and EM-drive propulsion, thus kickstarting a potential Polish poliferation through the Solar  (Polar?) System

This all nice and fun, but our coal lobby is stronk and would not have any of that, no sir.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2019, 09:13:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 01:13:20 pm

There may be a bit of a culture clash involved, but 90% of it is definetly the same reactionary isolationism and right wing nationalism that we've been seeing on the rise in the US and in Europe and elsewhere.

Lmao no
That generalisation doesn't even work if you just applied it to the USA, even in the USA you have a smorgasbord of fault lines and clusterfucks going on.

Quote from: smjjames on March 12, 2019, 01:13:20 pm

In other Brexit related news (besides the impending vote today), when I saw this (https://www.politico.eu/article/ira-claims-responsibility-for-5-bombs-only-4-found/), my first thought was 'Whatever happened to the IRA laying down arms and making peace?', but it sounds like maybe it's a new group that has co-opted the IRA name.

As per my previous comment; you can't make a single general statement and expect it to be true in the British Isles, factions are abound within factions and factions, and they all want their own things and believe their own things

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 12, 2019, 04:37:22 pm

UK population decimated by Ibizan super gonorrhea
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/12/inenglish/1552378666_939022.html

I knew some people in the UK who were doing research on things like HIV and super gonorrhea, I don't think it's fair to call it Ibizan super gonorrhea as we've had outbreaks of it spreading through Universities in the UK before this. Ibiza isn't special for having super gonorrhea, it's special for being a typical hotspot for horny British vacationers where they suspend regular sense and jump off buildings, have unprotected sex with anything that blinks, take every drug e.t.c.
It's like the dawn of syphilis all over again. English called it the Dutch disease, Dutch called it the French disease, French called it the Spanish disease... But everyone's screwed (everyone)

Quote from: Frumple on March 12, 2019, 05:40:43 pm

Yeah, far as I've been able to pick up UK's sovereignty was functionally untouched, barely impacted thanks to all the exceptions it had and often what little was left after that shit they would have been stupid not to do anyway. Most/all of the arguments put forth for brexit were based on ignorance at best, active misinformation and/or open (self-destructive) xenophobia at worst. Continuation of a long media history in the UK of shitting on the EU even (especially) when there was nothing to shit on, to a notable extent.

So am I ignorant, Russian or xenophobic? One such reason the Remain campaign failed was that it was led by people convinced they didn't have to make arguments at all. Their opponents were animals or villains not worthy of reason :[

Take for example sovereignty. Put yourselves in my shoes - I desire a sovereign United Kingdom, governed by the United Kingdom for the UK. I do not desire the European Union to take away any sovereignty from the UK, yet the EU only reforms in favour of centralisation, and even David Cameron's failed bid for a two-speed Europe would have ultimately resulted in the UK ceasing to be sovereign - just at a later date than France. Why would it make sense for me to wait until the UK ceases to be sovereign to deliver a referendum it couldn't deliver except while it remained disengaged from the EU project?

No one was given the choice to subject our country to the EU, and we have consistently opposed further centralisation, yet to no avail in the continent. The EU will never just be a free trade area, what sense does it make for me to wait until the UK can't pass its own laws, control its own currency, borders, foreign policy or budget? It would be doubtful such a referendum would be possible, and in the event of a leave win the actual effort required to leave the EU project would be much greater :>

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 13, 2019, 09:32:22 am

Quote from: Frumple on March 12, 2019, 05:40:43 pm

Yeah, far as I've been able to pick up UK's sovereignty was functionally untouched, barely impacted thanks to all the exceptions it had and often what little was left after that shit they would have been stupid not to do anyway. Most/all of the arguments put forth for brexit were based on ignorance at best, active misinformation and/or open (self-destructive) xenophobia at worst. Continuation of a long media history in the UK of shitting on the EU even (especially) when there was nothing to shit on, to a notable extent.

So far as personal, ground level effects it's going to be nothing but negatives for the majority of the population. It'll mean more nuisance, weaker economy, and so on. Depending on how bad it gets (particularly vis a vis medical supply) the "actual meaning" could go as far as "you get to die because your leadership fucked up the supply chains". Little guy gon' get fucked so the vulture capitalists can make bank and the xenophobes can have their day in the sun.

I'm not sure whether you're misinformed or being deliberately provocative.

Even in terms of media, do you realise just how pro-Europe all major British outlets were over the Campaign? It was laughably one sided.

Edit: Looking back, the above seems a bit stand-offish. I'll justify that by drawing out your major themes.

People who voted Brexit were ignorant (read: stupid).
Some were xenophobes.
All were deluded by the anti-Europe (?????) media.

Mate, just because a vote doesn't go the way you want doesn't mean those voting didn't make decisions any less well-reasoned than those of the other side. There is such a thing as differing priorities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 13, 2019, 09:13:54 am

The EU will never just be a free trade area, what sense does it make for me to wait until the UK can't pass its own laws, control its own currency, borders, foreign policy or budget?

But isn't that projecting? Shouldn't one make a decision to leave when such issues actually appear rather than on the basis of one's fear that they might?
I understand that by sovereignty you mean all those things mentioned here. Neither of those have so far happened, have they? Not to any extent different than what comes about with any voluntary international agreement.

As for it not being just a free trade area - I agree that it won't ever be just that, but then again that's the whole point of EU, isn't it? To make the politics and administrations of all member states so intertwined and integrated that another war in Europe would be all but impossible. As far as I'm concerned that's a goal worth sacrificing some political independence for.

And by the way, I absolutely agree that the discourse has been poisoned by bad faith generalisations, patronising language, and tribalism (or maybe it's always been like that?) - it's always the other side that's emotional and it's always the worst possible arguments that they must be espousing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2019, 10:59:09 am

@LW: I was mainly confused by the fact that they were reusing the same name.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 13, 2019, 11:03:01 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

And by the way, I absolutely agree that the discourse has been poisoned by bad faith generalisations, patronising language, and tribalism (or maybe it's always been like that?) - it's always the other side that's emotional and it's always the worst possible arguments that they must be espousing.

Personally, I'd like to see more tribadism in modern political discourse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 13, 2019, 11:18:24 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

But isn't that projecting? Shouldn't one make a decision to leave when such issues actually appear rather than on the basis of one's fear that they might?

You assume that when these issues became more aggressively apparent (there is no reason to wait for them to appear; they are already there) that we would have any form of say whatsoever in whether we could leave or not. The referendum on leaving Europe, so far as I can see, was at best once-in-a-generation. With that in mind, it would be foolhardy to look at Europe's trajectory towards what one sees as a sovereignty-guzzling machine and not act accordingly while one has the chance.

Quote

As for it not being just a free trade area - I agree that it won't ever be just that, but then again that's the whole point of EU, isn't it? To make the politics and administrations of all member states so intertwined and integrated that another war in Europe would be all but impossible. As far as I'm concerned that's a goal worth sacrificing some political independence for.

Is that the whole point of the EU? If so, it's strange that all the arguments for remaining that I heard revolved around economics. Perhaps it is better to say that it is the justification for Europe.

At what point did one have to become one's neighbour in order to avoid outright war?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 11:46:38 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 13, 2019, 11:18:24 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

But isn't that projecting? Shouldn't one make a decision to leave when such issues actually appear rather than on the basis of one's fear that they might?

You assume that when these issues became more aggressively apparent (there is no reason to wait for them to appear; they are already there)

Alright then, in what instances those issues did appear? In what ways has the UK (or Poland, I guess) has ceded the control over its currency, borders, foreign policy or budget to the EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on March 13, 2019, 12:29:17 pm

I believe the argument is that even if infringing upon member states' sovereignty has not yet become an everyday affair, it will become more common as the drive to centralisation of the EU speeds up.

On the other hand, some say that the EU should be weakened because it benefits mostly the plutocrats, the wealthy elite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2019, 02:49:39 pm

These two The Guardian liveblogs and twitter posts within sum up the current vote:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/13/brexit-mps-to-vote-on-leaving-the-eu-with-no-deal-politics-live?page=with:block-5c895d0ae4b0cf92e5a56810#block-5c895d0ae4b0cf92e5a56810

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/13/brexit-mps-to-vote-on-leaving-the-eu-with-no-deal-politics-live?page=with:block-5c895d41e4b0eff8e0fc26c5#block-5c895d41e4b0eff8e0fc26c5

Summed up in two words would be 'absolute chaos'. Sounds like there is severe danger of them shooting themselves in the collective face.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 13, 2019, 07:26:19 pm

Lmao, government promises a free vote, on the day of the vote has the party whips try to force its own resolution to fail, fails at that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 13, 2019, 09:29:07 pm

That’s only because an amendment was added to it to completely eliminate the possibility of a no-deal Brexit ever. Still amusing, though.

I don’t understand how this government is still in power. They’ve been fucking about for two years getting nothing, what is essentially flagship policy voted down twice - once by the biggest defeat in history - and they have no time left to get anything new in because they were trying to run down the clock, presumably in the hope politicians were going to be sensible.

Either Brexit happens with a no-deal, which means they’re going against parliament, or they withdraw Article 50, which means they’re going against the people.

Tomorrow there’s a vote on extending Article 50. Working under the assumption it passes (because nobody thinks this government can work something out in less than 15 days, regardless of the EU’s position on budging on the deal they’ve said they’re not budging on) the 27 EU states have to agree to it, and I think they want a better reason than “we’ve been pissing into the wind for two years, and we want to do it some more, please.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 13, 2019, 09:38:12 pm

So much nothing has happened that I've become somewhat sceptical of the idea that nothing is going to ever stop happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 13, 2019, 09:42:59 pm

I've noticed some banging about that at least one nation (Italy, iirc?) is intending to veto an extension request pretty much regardless, too, heh. If the no no-deal was legally binding, we'd probably be looking at a default to revocation if that happened.

... also noticed a leaver or two come out saying they deserve a revoke at this point. Years of incompetent clusterfuck isn't exactly the best showing, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 13, 2019, 10:02:43 pm

Probably the only reason that government is still in power is because nobody really wants the job. The Tories/conservatives don't want Labor or some other group to pick the PM and they themselves don't want the job that Theresa May is doing.

I wouldn't be surprised if she got sacked within a month or perhaps even a week of Brexit crashing out. I read that the tory party no-confidence vote can't be done for another 12 months (maybe that's just an internal party thing rather than Parliamentary, not sure) and theres nothing stopping Labor from starting a no-confidence vote.

Regarding the extension, yea, Juncker and others have been saying that they need a reason for the extension like a referendum or a general election. Plus I've read that they're saying that the negotiations are over, so, the reason can't be 'more negotiations'.

Quote from: Frumple on March 13, 2019, 09:42:59 pm

I've noticed some banging about that at least one nation (Italy, iirc?) is intending to veto an extension request pretty much regardless, too, heh. If the no no-deal was legally binding, we'd probably be looking at a default to revocation if that happened.

... also noticed a leaver or two come out saying they deserve a revoke at this point. Years of incompetent clusterfuck isn't exactly the best showing, I guess.

Hadn't seen that about at least one nation intending to veto an extension regardless. Still, they're going to have to come up with a reason besides 'more negotiation'. If this is the best they can get in 2+ years, what hope is there for further negotiations.

As for revoking article 50, I think I've read that the EU is going to effectively keep the UK on a VERY short leash if they end up revoking it.

edit: Regardless of whoever vetoes it, Brexiteers ARE lobbying to have someone veto it (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/brexiters-lobby-for-european-veto-of-article-50-extension) and all it takes is for one country to veto it to scuttle the extension.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2019, 11:09:57 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

But isn't that projecting? Shouldn't one make a decision to leave when such issues actually appear rather than on the basis of one's fear that they might?

Nah, waiting until such a time would not make any sense for me. For starters, the issue has already appeared for me - the UK should not have to continually be defending its sovereignty against the EU, and I am cognizant that every concession against total integration is still integration further under the EU. Couple that with our politicians being pro-EU, the EU being utterly disinterested in even slowing down centralisation let alone reversing it, it would be completely daft for me to wait for the inevitable to occur before acting. In this sense, you would ask for me to hand over control of my country just to ask for it back. Given that the EU has an interest in punishing any European nation for leaving it, it would be easier for you to convince me that I should give away my house to the taxman before asking for it back. I would not want my country to become another Italy.
Also moving away from my logic, on a more pragmatic political sense, waiting to be further integrated into the EU before leaving will inevitably result in more work & uncertainty than if you had left earlier - if countries in the eurozone for example decided to leave the EU, they would have to choose between immediately setting up their own national currency or having their currency controlled by a hostile EU. Imagine Juncker in charge of your country, and you tell him you're leaving the EU :o

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

As for it not being just a free trade area - I agree that it won't ever be just that, but then again that's the whole point of EU, isn't it? To make the politics and administrations of all member states so intertwined and integrated that another war in Europe would be all but impossible. As far as I'm concerned that's a goal worth sacrificing some political independence for.

NATO and nuclear weapons are responsible for having kept the peace in Europe. The EU's push for defence agreements in Ukraine have done wonders for stoking up a West vs East conflict, whilst its disabling of national borders have allowed for the free movement of balkan guns & terrorist groups throughout Europe. If however the EU had no designs for common foreign policy and international rivalries, I would still be concerned - It just does not make sense to justify political surrender like this - NATO membership does not require Washington to rule you, so why then does the EU deserve this divine right of Kings? It's a bit cheeki breeki to say that you must subject yourself to yuropean rule to avoid being conquered by the yuropean union ;P
So I believe this: to sacrifice the independence you fought for cannot be the goal; it is defeat itself.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on March 13, 2019, 10:52:19 am

And by the way, I absolutely agree that the discourse has been poisoned by bad faith generalisations, patronising language, and tribalism (or maybe it's always been like that?) - it's always the other side that's emotional and it's always the worst possible arguments that they must be espousing.

I don't believe it's always been like that. I chalk it up to social media putting limited word counts and high post volumes into interpolitical dialogues

Quote from: smjjames on March 13, 2019, 10:02:43 pm

edit: Regardless of whoever vetoes it, Brexiteers ARE lobbying to have someone veto it (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/brexiters-lobby-for-european-veto-of-article-50-extension) and all it takes is for one country to veto it to scuttle the extension.

Come on Poland
DO IT FOR MEMES
DO IT LADS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 14, 2019, 11:21:59 am

What's so wrong with centralization?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 12:03:34 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on March 14, 2019, 11:21:59 am

What's so wrong with centralization?

The sweaty people get even sweatier

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 14, 2019, 12:08:49 pm

You see the absolute fun that is the US's public education system?

Yeah. THAT is one of the things that centralization "Top down" mandates can cause.  Not all regions operate under the same social, cultural, or political frameworks, and so what works in one area might not work so well in another.  Centralized government wants to deal with aggregate, faceless and culturally deficited proxies of what the areas they are managing are actually like, and to impose things that they FEEL are good, but can be toxic as shit, depending on circumstances in the areas in question.

Again, US public education.  You dont want that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2019, 12:20:13 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on March 14, 2019, 11:21:59 am

What's so wrong with centralization?

Probably the wrong question to ask, as centralisation can be many things, even necessary at times. In the general sense, I tend towards decentralisation as I am a firm believer in the pragmatic & moral qualities of decentralised decision making.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Leaders from local constituencies understand the lives & problems of their constituency, because they are actually from that community.
-They are accountable & accessible from their community when things go wrong, right or the area could benefit from some project / policy change.
-There is a very short line of communication from the citizen to the nearest authority capable of organising a response.
-Leaders & constituencies both have a vested interest in how their community is run, and both have natural incentive to see it do well.
-Locals tend to be experts in local issues. As the old saying goes, you ask your bricklayers for advice on bricks and your jewelers advice on jewels.
-Smaller social units are easier to keep close and altruistic.
-Smaller administrative units require less bureaucracy to operate.
-Corruption and impunity follow excessive centralisation

In this specific example, I don't want the EU to have authority over the UK, so it's a political decision as well

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 14, 2019, 12:55:05 pm

Second ref vote got shot down, probably increasing the likelihood an extension request is rejected. What seems to be the current options for UK: No deal in the face of yesterday's vote, general election and pray the EU grants an extension for it, revoking A50, accept whatever deal the EU feels like giving at the last minute. The clusterfuck continues to fuck clusterly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 01:38:40 pm

https://svaice.webnode.com/
https://www.nrk.no/nordland/_-det-renner-allerede-elver-rett-fra-breen.-da-kan-vi-like-godt-ta-ut-isen-for-den-smelter-1.14463939

A company called Svaice is set up and ready to start chopping up bits of a glacial area known as "Svartisen", "The Black Ice". Pieces of the roughly 3600 cubic meters of harvested ice (per year) will then be flown via helicopter (at least for the first couple months) out to a distribution center, where it will be repackaged and shipped out to exclusive locations around the world... and used as ice cubes for the elite at about $14 a pop.

Some inconsequential numpties feel that this is silly, and that the helicopters and chainsaws may disturb wildlife in the adjacent protected national park. The founder of Svaice quickly DESTROYED all opposition by noting that "It's already melting, what difference does it make if we cut up and sell some of it?"



In other news...

https://www.nsb.no/en/vy
https://www.nrk.no/norge/nsbs-navneendring-vil-koste-opp-mot-280-millioner-kroner-1.14468467

Norwegian State Railways (NSB), the publicly-owned rail system which controls all train traffic (outside of the airport express train, which is a private company that licenses use of NSB's rail network), is getting a name change. Why? Well, because it's time for something new... Also because the current government is working hard on breaking up and privatizing everything that NSB once covered, so they can't very well use a "State" organizational name once the final bits have been bought up. That just wouldn't make much sense, now would it?

Oh, and repainting everything to match the new name/logo/color scheme will cost an estimated 280 million kroner (roughly $30m US). They also need to replace approximately 7,000 employee uniforms. Which, despite having been unisex for decades, now apparently need to have heels and skirts on the ladies' uniforms. At least according to the rough drafts that have been leaked.

There's also a slight issue in that, by Norwegian law, an enterprise's name must be composed of "at least three letters from the Norwegian alphabet". "Vy" is only two, as evident. Spokespersons for NSB/Vy have allayed doubts over this obstacle by saying "We'll just register it under a different name officially, and call it Vy as a front". Certain precocious individuals are now "Curious as to what Vy will actually be called".


Vietnamese-Norwegian hairdresser Thanh Vy is reportedly "Quite happy and excited" about the free advertising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 14, 2019, 01:55:01 pm

Fucking dumbass rich people, its literally just ice. You can put tap water in the freezer and get the exact same thing with exponentially less personal cost, waste of fuel, and environmental destruction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 02:05:21 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on March 14, 2019, 01:55:01 pm

Fucking dumbass rich people, its literally just ice. You can put tap water in the freezer and get the exact same thing with exponentially less personal cost, waste of fuel, and environmental destruction.

No no no, you see...

1: It's pretty
"This piece is 1000 years old, and it has an exquisite structure of air bubbles trapped inside it."
-Svaice Founder Geir Ludvik Olsen, showing off a test chunk

2: It's more tastelier
"Europe uses chlorinated water to make ice cubes, which ruins the flavor of the water and thereby also ruins the flavor of whatever you use those ice cubes for."
-From the official website's "Controversy/Facts" section

3: It's soundery niceable
"When you put it in a drink, you can hear the popping. You can actually hear the cracks forming!"
-Geir Olsen, being enthusiastic

Emphasis mine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 14, 2019, 02:33:30 pm

Quote from: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 02:05:21 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on March 14, 2019, 01:55:01 pm

Fucking dumbass rich people, its literally just ice. You can put tap water in the freezer and get the exact same thing with exponentially less personal cost, waste of fuel, and environmental destruction.

No no no, you see...

1: It's pretty
"This piece is 1000 years old, and it has an exquisite structure of air bubbles trapped inside it."
-Svaice Founder Geir Ludvik Olsen, showing off a test chunk

2: It's more tastelier
"Europe uses chlorinated water to make ice cubes, which ruins the flavor of the water and thereby also ruins the flavor of whatever you use those ice cubes for."
-From the official website's "Controversy/Facts" section

3: It's soundery niceable
"When you put it in a drink, you can hear the popping. You can actually hear the cracks forming!"
-Geir Olsen, being enthusiastic

Emphasis mine.

Reminds me of the raw water fad in the US and is probably at least just as unhealthy.

I say "probably" because of the 1000 years mark. I kind of wonder if you can get the black plague from drinking unsanitized ancient ice. Grandfather Nurgle must be rolling on the floor laughing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 14, 2019, 02:58:25 pm

Quote from: Frumple on March 14, 2019, 12:55:05 pm

Second ref vote got shot down, probably increasing the likelihood an extension request is rejected. What seems to be the current options for UK: No deal in the face of yesterday's vote, general election and pray the EU grants an extension for it, revoking A50, accept whatever deal the EU feels like giving at the last minute. The clusterfuck continues to fuck clusterly.

The motion for the extension passed by over 200 votes, but the EU still has to approve it. Also, from this Vox article (https://www.vox.com/2019/3/14/18265380/brexit-vote-delay-deadline-parliament-european-union):

Quote

"May has said that she would ask the EU for “a short limited technical extension,” until June 30, if Parliament approved her Brexit deal on March 20. This means she would try to pass her plan a third time. If her deal were to pass, the delay would simply provide the UK Parliament more time to pass the legislation to put the Brexit deal into law.

But, May warned, if Parliament doesn’t want to accept her deal a third time and doesn’t want to leave without a plan in place, then it’s possible any delay will have to be a long one, beyond the end of June.

Isn't an extension for 'just more time' exactly the kind of limbo that the EU wanted to avoid with article 50? If this is the best that they can get after at least a year (technically they had 2 1/2, but wasted a good chunk of it with a snap election), I don't see how giving more time would help things.

edit: Apparently May didn't even want the extension....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 14, 2019, 04:09:00 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on March 14, 2019, 01:55:01 pm

Fucking dumbass rich people, its literally just ice. You can put tap water in the freezer and get the exact same thing with exponentially less personal cost, waste of fuel, and environmental destruction.

It's not just black ice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efiW2K8gASM)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Sergarr on March 14, 2019, 04:31:11 pm

Wow I didn't think the British government could've found a way to embarrass themselves even more than they already did by allowed the Brexit referendum to actually go through, but begging the EU to move the deadline and keep them in just a teeny bit longer so that they can actually get their shit together and decide on a Brexit plan is just... it's really hard to put into words just how much of an epic failure that is.

They've had two years. Two. Fucking. Years. To plan this stuff well in advance. Did they really think that they could just simply bully the EU into literally giving them everything they want on demand?!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 14, 2019, 04:47:50 pm

Not to mention that Theresa May also wasted about half of that time trying to increase her majority with a snap election.

I don't see how they could get any better deal than the current one, especially if this is all they could get after a year. While it might not be workable treaty-wise, it seems like it would be better to make the Irish border stuff a separate issue from everything else so that it's not under so much pressure from everything else. AFAIK, the Irish border is the ONLY thing that's left unagreed-on, other than maybe minor details that can be hashed out as needed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 05:03:01 pm

Spoiler: here, have a terrible joke (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/Efy0knl.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on March 14, 2019, 06:46:00 pm

EDIT: Ah, this is the EU thread and not AmeriPol. Not the place to discuss the DoEd's centralization or lack therein.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2019, 11:11:15 pm

Quote from: Kagus on March 14, 2019, 05:03:01 pm

Spoiler: here, have a terrible joke (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/Efy0knl.jpg)

I share the earth with fools

also

Quote

“The proposed venture would have people cherishing the aesthetic of ice,” Box says. “The way even small pieces of glacier ice floats in a glass resemble identically the shape and form of icebergs; that fractal geometry of nature floating in your whisky glass is aesthetically far more pleasing than artificial ice.”

Who the fuck are these people

Also in a minor note, Brexit is being procrastinated by May again, exactly as expected. Never ending extensions, that just go on and on

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on March 15, 2019, 01:35:19 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 14, 2019, 11:11:15 pm

Also in a minor note, Brexit is being procrastinated by May again, exactly as expected. Never ending extensions, that just go on and on

Can't walk the plank if you keep building a longer plank

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 15, 2019, 01:55:41 pm

Can't take the exit until you stop going 'round the roundabout.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 15, 2019, 08:16:22 pm

Well, she’s not finished trying to flog her dead horse yet; they’re scheduled to vote on it again on Wednesday.

Still bemused how they still have a government, presumably shit will go down after Wednesday or the 29th.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 16, 2019, 12:01:31 am

Would I advocate riots?

.....

I would advocate riots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 16, 2019, 06:47:05 am

Do I predict a Kaiser Chiefs? I predict a Kaiser Chiefs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 16, 2019, 07:01:07 am

Nationless, directionless, the British nomad hordes would squabble with each other over territory disputes and the shrinking natural resource of wild Freddos.

Then, a passionate and charismatic leader emerged... Uniting the tribes who would listen and crushing those who would not, he rallied the scattered Britons and assembled them under a new banner, a new nation which would challenge the world.


And thus began the immortal legacy of Genghis Chav.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 16, 2019, 07:17:34 am

Mate I think you just described the Avatar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 16, 2019, 07:50:03 am

Britain already has King Arthur anyway.

He’s Welsh though, so either nobody would understand him or nobody would give a shit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 16, 2019, 07:54:40 am

Ehhh depends on whether he existed. There's some very shaky evidence from Gildas concerning a Bear-man IIRC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on March 16, 2019, 09:20:04 am

One corroborating piece of evidence is that the name Arthur didn't exist before, but suddenly became real, real popular in Scotland and Wales in the early 6th century for a short period. It later surged after Geoffrey of Monmouth's book in the 12th century, but there's that otherwise unexplained 6th century spike in popularity.

Pretty much every source agrees that he fought at the Battle of Badon, and secured a victory there. Earlier (than Geoffrey) sources say he fought with the British, as in alongside. The implication in those sources is that he wasn't Welsh, but was allied to them. Possibilities have been mentioned such as the Roman-allied Pictish tribes (who did in fact leg it south after the Romans left, since they were in the shit being attacked by Irish, other Picts and Germanic invaders). This is the coolest option clearly, that he was a Pictish warlord.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 16, 2019, 10:11:00 pm

Khagan Chav or Hooligan Khan?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 17, 2019, 01:03:38 pm

Quote from: Reelya on March 16, 2019, 09:20:04 am

One corroborating piece of evidence is that the name Arthur didn't exist before, but suddenly became real, real popular in Scotland and Wales in the early 6th century for a short period. It later surged after Geoffrey of Monmouth's book in the 12th century, but there's that otherwise unexplained 6th century spike in popularity.

Pretty much every source agrees that he fought at the Battle of Badon, and secured a victory there. Earlier (than Geoffrey) sources say he fought with the British, as in alongside. The implication in those sources is that he wasn't Welsh, but was allied to them. Possibilities have been mentioned such as the Roman-allied Pictish tribes (who did in fact leg it south after the Romans left, since they were in the shit being attacked by Irish, other Picts and Germanic invaders). This is the coolest option clearly, that he was a Pictish warlord.

How do we know the name was popular? What sources?
Also, assuming the name did have a spike in popularity, it doesn't mean much. A fictional figure could be given the name in retrospect, even through an oral tradition.
Or if the name was uncommon, an oral tradition could have popularised it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 17, 2019, 01:51:52 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 17, 2019, 01:03:38 pm

Quote from: Reelya on March 16, 2019, 09:20:04 am

One corroborating piece of evidence is that the name Arthur didn't exist before, but suddenly became real, real popular in Scotland and Wales in the early 6th century for a short period. It later surged after Geoffrey of Monmouth's book in the 12th century, but there's that otherwise unexplained 6th century spike in popularity.

Pretty much every source agrees that he fought at the Battle of Badon, and secured a victory there. Earlier (than Geoffrey) sources say he fought with the British, as in alongside. The implication in those sources is that he wasn't Welsh, but was allied to them. Possibilities have been mentioned such as the Roman-allied Pictish tribes (who did in fact leg it south after the Romans left, since they were in the shit being attacked by Irish, other Picts and Germanic invaders). This is the coolest option clearly, that he was a Pictish warlord.

How do we know the name was popular? What sources?

Tinder

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 17, 2019, 01:53:52 pm

Kids these days, using Tinder to find bitches... In the old days they used to use tinder to find witches!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on March 18, 2019, 07:27:17 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 17, 2019, 01:03:38 pm

Quote from: Reelya on March 16, 2019, 09:20:04 am

One corroborating piece of evidence is that the name Arthur didn't exist before, but suddenly became real, real popular in Scotland and Wales in the early 6th century for a short period. It later surged after Geoffrey of Monmouth's book in the 12th century, but there's that otherwise unexplained 6th century spike in popularity.

Pretty much every source agrees that he fought at the Battle of Badon, and secured a victory there. Earlier (than Geoffrey) sources say he fought with the British, as in alongside. The implication in those sources is that he wasn't Welsh, but was allied to them. Possibilities have been mentioned such as the Roman-allied Pictish tribes (who did in fact leg it south after the Romans left, since they were in the shit being attacked by Irish, other Picts and Germanic invaders). This is the coolest option clearly, that he was a Pictish warlord.

How do we know the name was popular? What sources?

According to one book I read, it's based on gravestones of nobles. The name was unknown but suddenly becomes a very popular name for lords to name their sons. But, not over a long time. it's stated in Wikipedia as occuring in the early 6th century AD, which would have been literally within living memory of the Battle of Badon.

A source for that information, but not the one I read, is a book cited on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_King_Arthur#Name_%22Arthur%22):  Morris, John (1977). The Age of Arthur: A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2019, 08:55:16 am

A shooting in a tram in Utrecht put the terror threat level in our country (or at least in the province of Utrecht) at level 5. It has never been raised to 5, this is a first time.
Multiple people were injured, and perhaps killed when an unknown assailant started shooting in a tram earlier today.
It is unclear yet if this was a terrorist attack, but according to our prime minister, it looks like it.
The shooter managed to get away and is still at large.
German police have deployed to dutch border crossings.

EDIT: The mayor of Utrecht now reports that 3 people were killed and 9 people were injured, of whom 3 are in critical condition.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/world/europe/utrecht-shooting-netherlands.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 18, 2019, 10:15:34 am

Quote from: Reelya on March 18, 2019, 07:27:17 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 17, 2019, 01:03:38 pm

Quote from: Reelya on March 16, 2019, 09:20:04 am

One corroborating piece of evidence is that the name Arthur didn't exist before, but suddenly became real, real popular in Scotland and Wales in the early 6th century for a short period. It later surged after Geoffrey of Monmouth's book in the 12th century, but there's that otherwise unexplained 6th century spike in popularity.

Pretty much every source agrees that he fought at the Battle of Badon, and secured a victory there. Earlier (than Geoffrey) sources say he fought with the British, as in alongside. The implication in those sources is that he wasn't Welsh, but was allied to them. Possibilities have been mentioned such as the Roman-allied Pictish tribes (who did in fact leg it south after the Romans left, since they were in the shit being attacked by Irish, other Picts and Germanic invaders). This is the coolest option clearly, that he was a Pictish warlord.

How do we know the name was popular? What sources?

According to one book I read, it's based on gravestones of nobles. The name was unknown but suddenly becomes a very popular name for lords to name their sons. But, not over a long time. it's stated in Wikipedia as occuring in the early 6th century AD, which would have been literally within living memory of the Battle of Badon.

A source for that information, but not the one I read, is a book cited on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_King_Arthur#Name_%22Arthur%22):  Morris, John (1977). The Age of Arthur: A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650.

I've never come across English gravestones from that era before. It's unlikely to be Welsh (IIRC that era saw some written Welsh, but only relatively obscure poetry. Could be wrong though.) Assuming that it is English, why would they name their children after him? He just trounced them at Badon.

It seems more likely to me that, if the name was indeed more popular at that time, it informed the developing oral tradition of Arthur rather than was caused by it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2019, 10:21:24 am

I'm Arthur and so is my wife!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 18, 2019, 10:23:10 am

Timing of the terror attack in the Netherlandsis may not be a coincidence with elections in two days from now. Elections are for the provinces which will determine the composition of the senate. Political parties have said they wil stop campaigning except for baudet on the far right who has has announced he wil not stop his campaign, and will hold a campaign rally this evening

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 18, 2019, 10:35:05 am

How big of a player is the Baudet party? Or maybe that's just one candidate. Nvm, it's a surname, funnily enough, a French surname.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on March 18, 2019, 11:15:52 am

Yeah, his political party is named " forum voor democratie " but the party is all about him, so he is often referred to by name. He is the only far right party competing. Wilders the more well known Dutch right wing politician has never really chosen to compete at this level of government. It's hard to say how influential baudet is, but Wilders has definitely lost momentum in the last few years, wouldn't be surprised if his party was wiped out by baudet in the years to come

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 18, 2019, 11:17:35 am

Quote from: Bralbaard on March 18, 2019, 11:15:52 am

Yeah, his political party is named " forum voor democratie " but the party is all about him, so he is often referred to by name. He is the only far right party competing. Wilders the more well known Dutch right wing politician has never really chosen to compete at this level of government. It's hard to say how influential baudet is, but Wilders has definitely lost momentum in the last few years, wouldn't be surprised if his party was wiped out by baudet in the years to come

With the rise of Trump, Wilders no longer had the same standing as "Weird Hair Politician" as he once did.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:56 am

Ia! Ia! Bercow!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2019, 12:01:30 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:56 am

Ia! Ia! Bercow!

And so the cult which never died did so cry, order! order!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 18, 2019, 12:33:32 pm

The one time I heard him say it he very much put the emphasis on the second symbol, as though he were demanding a small snack from the MPs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on March 19, 2019, 03:39:44 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 18, 2019, 12:01:30 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:56 am

Ia! Ia! Bercow!

And so the cult which never died did so cry, order! order!

As much as I support Bercow's blocking of the ‘let parliament have another vote on the same proposal’-circus, then this should logically seal a no-deal Brexit.  >:(

The EU (rightly) stands firm on that the deal on the table is the negotiated deal, and now it will (rightly) not be possible to get it through the UK parliament.
The door is now locked behind May, who has stumbled into a dead-end.

Interesting that this ‘technicality’ in one stroke forces any initiative back on EU, - but who can maintain that this is the only deal, - which will now never be voted on in parliament.
I wonder what this means for any extension, - why extend the period if it’s now a technical (as well as a political) dead-lock.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 19, 2019, 05:00:02 am

Some people don't mind no deal as much as others. At least not as bad as Bad Deal.

To get it voted on the substance of the proposal will need to change, though. So they will need to change Something about it. Perhaps amend the backstop which deals, IMO, with a side issue.

Any extension now assumes the EU's willingness to negotiate, as you rightly imply. Here's to hoping they don't so our government has even less time to stab us in the back.

Roll on the 29th.

P.S. the BBC article on Bercow was quite amusing. So much bile for one man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on March 19, 2019, 05:12:29 am

Unfortunately, Bercow is now also a darn convenient person to place the blame for a hard Brexit upon.
Any spineless politician on both sides of the Channel can claim that: ‘We could have fixed it, - but now it’s impossible.’
Everyone involved (including Bercow who is only doing his job) can leave somewhat spotless, as <drumroll> is was inevitable.


And yes, I've also reached the point where I prefer a hard Brexit compared to the current mess.
It would have been better with a deal (good or bad, - I support the EU stance that 'this IS the deal that was negotiated'), but it's time to move on.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 19, 2019, 05:00:02 am

P.S. the BBC article on Bercow was quite amusing. So much bile for one man.

Link please!  :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 19, 2019, 07:11:31 am

Is there anything stopping them from just extending it indefinitely?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 19, 2019, 07:16:44 am

The unanimous agreement of 27 other countries :p

In an entirely unexpected twist, May presses on regardless, among other discourse over how to get round Bercow’s ruling (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47620235).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 19, 2019, 12:23:03 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on March 19, 2019, 07:11:31 am

Is there anything stopping them from just extending it indefinitely?

Politics, but politics also permits it. So politics as usual

Quote from: askovdk on March 19, 2019, 03:39:44 am

As much as I support Bercow's blocking of the ‘let parliament have another vote on the same proposal’-circus, then this should logically seal a no-deal Brexit.  >:(

Bercow swings the sword; May read the verdict, Cameron passed the sentence.

Quote from: askovdk on March 19, 2019, 05:12:29 am

Unfortunately, Bercow is now also a darn convenient person to place the blame for a hard Brexit upon.

May has less power and credibility than Bercow, I think he need not fear accusations from a PM who won't last 20 seconds in a proper general election

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on March 19, 2019, 05:00:02 am

Some people don't mind no deal as much as others. At least not as bad as Bad Deal.

Of all the Britons I've polled in China, they'd all supported Remain but are so tired of the neverending process that they're now in favour of no-deal Brexit just to get on with it, arguing the uncertainty May has inflicted has done more damage in the short term than no-deal Brexit ever could've. Then you've got folk like me who wanted no-deal Brexit from day one as it was the cleanest Brexit possible. I'm not happy though, because for all the people promising no deal Brexit, I won't celebrate until it happens

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 19, 2019, 12:32:32 pm

No, Bercow need not fear too much for his position.

What he needs to worry about is his block being circumnavigated, as it seems depressingly likely it will be. Any headlines concerning Bercow claim he's a threat to Brexit or somesuch; it's quite ridiculous, and I wonder how many people actually subscribe to that opinion.

May is determined to push through her deal (one which is worse than Remaining and worse than Leaving) no matter that it was voted down twice. The only tactic she has left is to hold hostage Brexit itself. Project Fear is now tangible to all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 19, 2019, 12:36:04 pm

Bit depressing if Bercow goes down for killing Brexit whilst in the act of saving it lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 19, 2019, 01:56:57 pm

The solution is very obvious, really. Unilaterally exile Northern Ireland from the UK, enact Devo Max for the remaining countries, establish a Cornish parliament, and allow Liz to consume the populace of London body and soul that she might shine with burning light from the ruins of Buckingham Palace for ten thousand years. Oh, and repeal the bedroom tax.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 19, 2019, 02:04:43 pm

So, what happens after Brexit, though? Will the various nationalities of Britain find a new hope for sovereignty and submit their official secession from the United Kingdom?

I mean, I feel like Scotleft has some promise, but Walesolong and Ireallyhavetobegoingnow seem like ill-fated prospects.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 19, 2019, 02:30:14 pm

I mean, ireland has a very nice republic it could join

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 19, 2019, 03:16:45 pm

Assuming Ireland wants NI, and NI wants Ireland.

Neither of which is the case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 19, 2019, 03:37:19 pm

I kind of wonder about something concerning this: if NI was to join the ROI (with twin referendums in the ROI and NI).... how would it work out, exactly? AFAIK the parliament in Belfast has quite a bit of devolved authority (and the population itself is quite big). Also AFAIK: the ROI is quite centralized. So I'm not sure as to how it would work out, as I doubt very much the regional goverment would be happy giving up said devolved authority, regardless of who was in charge.  Keep it as it's now just transferring ultimate executive power to Dublin instead of London? That's also potentially troublesome. I guess a bit more viable politically speaking, but it kind of leaves the issue in the air and NI in a bit of a limbo.   Maybe remake the Irish republic into some sort of Province-based federal republic, with devolved parliaments in Belfast, Cork and Galway?  That's a huge change from the status quo, so it would be hard to have everyone agree to that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 19, 2019, 04:47:09 pm

Disestablish both states in favor of a network of anarchist communes, eternal and invincible in their rebellion against She-Who-Is-Liz.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 19, 2019, 05:04:07 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 19, 2019, 03:37:19 pm

I kind of wonder about something concerning this: if NI was to join the ROI (with twin referendums in the ROI and NI).... how would it work out, exactly? AFAIK the parliament in Belfast has quite a bit of devolved authority (and the population itself is quite big). Also AFAIK: the ROI is quite centralized. So I'm not sure as to how it would work out, as I doubt very much the regional goverment would be happy giving up said devolved authority, regardless of who was in charge.  Keep it as it's now just transferring ultimate executive power to Dublin instead of London? That's also potentially troublesome. I guess a bit more viable politically speaking, but it kind of leaves the issue in the air and NI in a bit of a limbo.   Maybe remake the Irish republic into some sort of Province-based federal republic, with devolved parliaments in Belfast, Cork and Galway?  That's a huge change from the status quo, so it would be hard to have everyone agree to that.

Maybe some sort of special autonomy status? A hypothetical situation like that where it's done democratically isn't a very common thing, at least not peacefully. So, there aren't a whole lot of examples to look at. The only example I can really think of that happened is anything close to that would be the reuninifcation of East and West Germany.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 19, 2019, 05:52:28 pm

In the event of a NI independence the most likely result would be them remaining independent from the RoI. They might hash out some kind of deals to work more closely along the border than they do now, probably maintain economic ties and so on and so forth, but actually joining together wouldn't work well at this time, too much difference in political systems and allegiances.

Nor is there really much point to them joining together tbh. They'd probably have few problems working together in the event of them both being sovereign nations as long as neither of them wind up in control of religious fundamentalists. There's not much to gain by becoming one country they can't get by just being friends and/or having an amiable business relationship.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 19, 2019, 06:39:22 pm

It was apparently something that was considered as a possible option for the GFA, or was enough of a possibility that some parties wanted to leave the door open for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 20, 2019, 07:40:11 am

I don't really know much about the political climate of Europe other than you all seem to really hate each other :P (joking)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 20, 2019, 07:41:41 am

We really only hate the French

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on March 20, 2019, 07:49:53 am

And the Swedish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 20, 2019, 07:51:07 am

I dunno, the Belgians waffling seems to get quite a bit of press... 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on March 20, 2019, 08:33:53 am

Exactly, I'm sure you guys can keep going until you admit you hate everyone including yourselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 20, 2019, 10:11:53 am

We hate ourselves more than anything

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 01:11:32 pm

So, anything happening with the British Parliament today as far as the Brexit vote goes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 20, 2019, 01:25:42 pm

No vote ‘til... next week at some point. May is apparently requesting a short extension tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 01:32:17 pm

Also apparently France is saying they're going to veto a short-term extension request unless there's serious guarantee a deal will be accepted in short order? Something like that.  _{if you're under the impression may can do jack all to guarantee that, you'd be right :V}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2019, 02:02:53 pm

Excellent. The bear trap she herself created is beginning to close over her paw.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 02:22:04 pm

Quote from: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 01:32:17 pm

Also apparently France is saying they're going to veto a short-term extension request unless there's serious guarantee a deal will be accepted in short order? Something like that.  _{if you're under the impression may can do jack all to guarantee that, you'd be right :V}

Plus Belgium, Spain and maybe Italy. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44#block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44) It's basically them saying that theres no point in negotiating further if it keeps getting rejected after this long, plus implying that Macron thinks that the whole Brexit debacle is getting in the way of his plans (to be fair, it's likely getting in the way of EVERYBODYS plans).

Looks like May is just going to attempt to do the same thing and didn't take alternatives seriously. Also, the schism in the Labor party made Corbyn walk out. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c9299dde4b0e8eadf7812db#block-5c9299dde4b0e8eadf7812db)

Also, a bunch of smaller parties put out a joint statement (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c928cf0e4b0e8eadf781265#block-5c928cf0e4b0e8eadf781265) saying that they should do a continuous session until they figure something out and have revocation of article 50 as a last resort.[/url].

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 03:44:02 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 02:22:04 pm

Quote from: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 01:32:17 pm

Also apparently France is saying they're going to veto a short-term extension request unless there's serious guarantee a deal will be accepted in short order? Something like that.  _{if you're under the impression may can do jack all to guarantee that, you'd be right :V}

Plus Belgium, Spain and maybe Italy. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44#block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44)

I see a very clear French block there

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 04:12:43 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 03:44:02 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 02:22:04 pm

Quote from: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 01:32:17 pm

Also apparently France is saying they're going to veto a short-term extension request unless there's serious guarantee a deal will be accepted in short order? Something like that.  _{if you're under the impression may can do jack all to guarantee that, you'd be right :V}

Plus Belgium, Spain and maybe Italy. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44#block-5c927da7e4b0480f6c022b44)

I see a very clear French block there

I can't decide whether you're making a pun on the word bloc or not, or maybe a historical reference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 04:23:51 pm

Neither. IIRC: In EU politics France, Italy and Spain often work as an "alliance" of sorts. Kind of like the Franco-German axis, but mostly when French and German goverments have different opinions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 04:30:57 pm

I see then. Also, Theresa May made a major math error in her speech (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/20/brexit-latest-news-letter-article-50-extension-pmqs-theresa-may-bends-to-pressure-from-tory-brexiters-and-rules-out-asking-for-long-article-extension-politics-live?page=with:block-5c92ae66e4b0e8eadf78135d#block-5c92ae66e4b0e8eadf78135d). She says that the Brexit referendum started three years ago, yet she says 'two years on'. What happened to the missing time period between 'nearly three years' and 'two years', hm? Clearly, she doesn't want to admit to wasting time with the failed snap election attempt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 04:57:24 pm

I think 'Two years on' is a reference to the Article 50 timeline. Which specifies that two years after triggering IE: April Fool's day 2019, the country that triggered it drops out of the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 20, 2019, 05:19:32 pm

It's either that, or we've gone so deep into The Brexit Referendimension that time simply has no meaning anymore.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 20, 2019, 07:47:49 pm

She has basically called MPs voting against her time-wasting idiots playing games.

Unsure if her incompetence is real or she has masterfully manipulated proceedings to potentially halt Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 07:50:23 pm

Maybe she just got real confused by a mirror, like some kind of inebriated cat?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 11:09:46 pm

Even an incompetent inebriated cat clock is right at least once in a while.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 04:57:24 pm

I think 'Two years on' is a reference to the Article 50 timeline. Which specifies that two years after triggering IE: April Fool's day 2019, the country that triggered it drops out of the EU.

Why the roughly one year split between the referendum and actually triggering it ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 21, 2019, 02:26:59 am

Quote from: Frumple on March 20, 2019, 07:50:23 pm

Maybe she just got real confused by a mirror, like some kind of inebriated cat?

Vampires, Tyler, you're thinking of vampires

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 21, 2019, 06:36:54 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 20, 2019, 11:09:46 pm

Even an incompetent inebriated cat clock is right at least once in a while.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2019, 04:57:24 pm

I think 'Two years on' is a reference to the Article 50 timeline. Which specifies that two years after triggering IE: April Fool's day 2019, the country that triggered it drops out of the EU.

Why the roughly one year split between the referendum and actually triggering it ;)

The general election was called after she triggered it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2019, 04:27:23 pm

Brexit is over (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/uri-geller-promises-to-stop-brexit-using-telepathy)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 22, 2019, 06:27:32 pm

Mrs. May might not even allow parliament to vote on her deal for a third time unless she’s convinced there’s support for the thing what parliament rejected by a huge margin two times already.

I foresee pissing into the wind for three more weeks.

I think all she’s doing now is seeing how long she can remain prime minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on March 22, 2019, 06:30:39 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2019, 04:27:23 pm

Brexit is over (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/uri-geller-promises-to-stop-brexit-using-telepathy)

There is no spoon

Now I want to see Farage recruit David Blaine to his Death-Eaters, and the fate of Britain will be decided with a wizard's duel in front of 10 Downing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2019, 10:42:31 pm

Quote

He added: 'Three years before you became Prime Minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch.'
He also claimed he is using the power of his mind to ensure that 'Jeremy Corbyn never gets the keys to Number 10 Downing Street'.

FOOL
YOUR WEAK SORCERY IS NO MATCH FOR THE SCION OF LAOR, HE WHO WIELDS THE ORBS OF DIRECTION. YOUR FEEBLE MINDED ASSAULTS SHALL BREAK UPON THE BULWARK OF THE MAN IN RED TURTLENECKS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 23, 2019, 12:53:59 am

Prolonged exposure from the Orb of Confusion will give you...uh...confusion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 23, 2019, 03:45:32 pm

About a million people joined a protest march in London today to stop the Brexit.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/betoging-tegen-brexit-brengt-miljoen-eurogezinde-britten-op-de-been~bc2aab23/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2019, 08:53:46 pm

The Brexit date has been pushed back to April 12th, beyond that, they're going to have to decide whether they want to take part in the EU Parliamentary elections.

Rumblings about sacking Theresa May, (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/tory-remainers-brexiters-say-theresa-may-in-end-days) and that she would be forced to step down if the third vote (on the same damn thing) failed. Only problem though is that the Tories have their own remainer and leave camps, so.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2019, 09:59:42 pm

April 12th, year 3000. MayNet develops sentience and delays brexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 23, 2019, 10:23:04 pm

Iceland is going all rebel for Eurovision this year apparently. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47536433) Though maybe I should dig up the EUrovision thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on March 24, 2019, 10:08:00 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 23, 2019, 09:59:42 pm

April 12th, year 3000. MayNet develops sentience and delays brexit

Good news, everyone!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on March 25, 2019, 10:49:31 am

Tories should elect Maybot 2.0, who has used machine learning and Markov chains to create a perfect replica of Theresa May's dealmaking prowess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 25, 2019, 11:07:01 am

Quote from: misko27 on March 25, 2019, 10:49:31 am

Tories should elect Maybot 2.0, who has used machine learning and Markov chains to create a perfect replica of Theresa May's dealmaking prowess.

It's learned by simulating millions of Brexit deals against itself. The Starcraft players present in the EU stand no chance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2019, 08:38:51 pm

*sound of MPs ripping the (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/25/brexit-latest-news-theresa-may-chairs-cabinet-ahead-of-statement-to-mps-as-calls-for-her-resignation-continue-live-news) steering wheel away from Theresa May* (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409)

Yes, there are two links in there, and probably a little overdramatic take. Though I guess it would be equivalent to the rank and file members of the House or Senate rebelling and taking control of the agenda away from the House/Senate leadership. Unless that's a misinterpretation?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 25, 2019, 09:18:06 pm

Doesn't seem like this improves the chances for a deal. Just more cooks in the kitchen, but the kitchen is on fire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 25, 2019, 09:28:33 pm

Sounds like they're just using it to force a third vote (on what specifically, I'm not sure) plus some votes on Brexit related things that Theresa May was refusing to do.

edit: Actually, looks like they're forcing votes on a bunch of alternatives which Theresa May was probably refusing to hold. Also, does Theresa May even have any ministers left? Seems like every cabinet position has had at least one resignation since Brexit started.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 26, 2019, 01:48:02 am

Quote from: smjjames on March 25, 2019, 09:28:33 pm

Also, does Theresa May even have any ministers left? Seems like every cabinet position has had at least one resignation since Brexit started.

Trouble yourself not with the cost of this crusade - its noble end affords you broad tolerance in your choice of means

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 26, 2019, 04:35:27 am

EU parliament is voting on copyright today.

I don't think it's going to end well for us. :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 04:41:35 am

RE: EU copyright bullshittery

Behold the power of centralization; A single point at which all the monied lobbyists may focus their efforts to get their way in a widespread and sweeping scope of application.

It's not longer just "Germany has absurd copyright laws; at least here in Finland we have sensible ones."  Now it is "Fuck. The lobbyists got to parliament, and now we are all well and truly screwed."


Information is quite possibly the least scarce resource we have in this modern era.  Why do we keep extending copyright terms, and increasing penalties?  Oh-- Because FUCKING MONEY. That's why. Carry on!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2019, 04:45:47 am

Ssshh, sssshh, Germany knows what is best for you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 04:55:57 am

I can hardly wait for the great divide between videos uploaded in the EU, and the rest of the world, on youtube.  Wasn't bad enough when every video in the universe was banned in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_Germany)? No?  Well, it will get worse now.

At what point, world, do we put our collective feet down, and say "No, no more copyright extensions-- your business model is doomed to failure, diversify your income sources!" to these people?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 26, 2019, 07:05:58 am

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2lS2JaW0AAMD5L.jpg)

Source (https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1110510881069322240)

And it just keeps getting worse and worse...    >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 11:02:34 am

Youtube drops off European internet in 3.. 2...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/26/tech/eu-copyright-article-13/index.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2019, 11:45:49 am

It'll stop once you stop being wrong.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 12:07:11 pm

The actual law makes site operators (like youtube) legally responsible for the content uploaded by its patrons.

Since this opens such operations to financial ruin by massive lawsuits, this means service operators like YouTube have no choice but to cease operating under their current framework models within the territory if the EU.

Hence, "No videos in Europe on Youtube."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 12:10:34 pm

See the ball of crazy that is GEMA.

Not so much a tempest in a teacup.  The complaints of GEMA now can extend to all of europe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 12:15:54 pm

GEMA is a consortium that represents the interests of copyright holders, and is empowered (at least in Germany) to seek legal remedy for infringements of those copyrights.

Being an authorized agent to conduct such an action, the are legally empowered to represent copyright holders, and make the claims you assert need to be made. (They already DO this, and block approximately 60% of popular videos in Germany, via this representational power.)

As such, GEMA will be empowered to seek remedy against service providers like Youtube for the entire territory of the EU via this law.  It is not my place to show how this is possible; It is your to show how it is not.  There is already established track record for the actions of GEMA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: George_Chickens on March 26, 2019, 12:26:20 pm

Oh, man. I remember GEMA. German-related Youtube was absofuckinglutely destroyed by it and has not recovered since. Tens, possibly hundreds of videos and parodies using German music (sometimes for under 10 second intervals, often in Youtube Poops), mostly Rammstein, that I had viewed as a wee laddy were completely wiped out and many of the accounts associated were terminated.

Those were sad times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2019, 12:32:03 pm

"We're not imposing a general monitoring obligation on you, we're just making it completely economically unfeasible to not have one"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 12:33:46 pm

GEMA did not operate via the method you suggest;  They issued mass takedown requests based on their own observations.

As evidenced by the flagrancy of automated takedowns via the DMCA in the US, the cost to issue a takedown is negligable compared to the costs involved in fighting one.

The costs incurred by GEMA (and groups like them) to issue takedowns using their existing practices in regard to the expanded territory is negligable to current operating costs; There is no reasonable expectation for them to NOT expand that scope of action, therefor.

You need to explain why such a group WONT go after everyone and their brother in the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 12:41:00 pm

That will only force services like YouTube to cease operations in the EU.

Reason:  They have to validate all the torrent of automated takedown requests shot at them by groups like GEMA. WITH HUMANS.  That is gonna be HELLA expensive.  It makes operation in the eurozone financially untenable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on March 26, 2019, 01:00:33 pm

Only time will tell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 26, 2019, 01:08:19 pm

Is that 100 EU dollars or 100 YouTube dollars?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 26, 2019, 01:48:41 pm

Quote from: Kagus on March 26, 2019, 01:08:19 pm

Is that 100 EU dollars or 100 YouTube dollars?

Neither. 100 liberian dollars

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TamerVirus on March 26, 2019, 02:05:12 pm

YouTubexit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on March 26, 2019, 02:45:12 pm

Funny how people complain about lobbyists while lobbying FaceGoogle's agenda...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2019, 03:21:50 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 26, 2019, 02:00:12 pm

It’s rather ironic that I’m defending the thing, given that YouTube vacating Europe would be a great thing in my eyes.

EU =/ Europe, mate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 26, 2019, 04:06:30 pm

They’d have to actually let something grow big enough under the EU system to compete with YouTube or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 26, 2019, 04:11:52 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 26, 2019, 04:02:23 pm

I just want less global tech conglomerates.

And I want less copyright.

Funny how we always get more copyright. Every. Damn. Time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 26, 2019, 04:20:41 pm

Isn’t YouTube in and of itself a nonprofit platform? Yes, people can make money using it, but the platform itself is free.

Kind of sounds like YouTube’s problem solved itself, it’s nonprofit and therefore not liable. I’ve heard that the provisions are vague (legally) as all hell, so....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 26, 2019, 04:27:16 pm

Quote from: Ispil on March 26, 2019, 04:16:32 pm

It's not more copyright- it's the same copyright. Just, y'know, actually trying to enforce it for once.

Which in effect, is more copyright.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TamerVirus on March 26, 2019, 04:41:42 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 26, 2019, 04:20:41 pm

Isn’t YouTube in and of itself a nonprofit platform?

I think you're mixing up a nonprofit entity with an entity that makes no profit.
There have been a lot of articles to suggest that YouTube is the latter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 26, 2019, 04:54:19 pm

Quote from: TamerVirus on March 26, 2019, 04:41:42 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 26, 2019, 04:20:41 pm

Isn’t YouTube in and of itself a nonprofit platform?

I think you're mixing up a nonprofit entity with an entity that makes no profit.
There have been a lot of articles to suggest that YouTube is the latter

You're probably right, yeah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 01:05:46 pm

Theresa May says that she'll step down before the next phase of the Brexit proccess. During the summer, possibly earlier. (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5c9bb3c785e90c0667537b52%26PM%20%27won%27t%20stay%27%20for%20next%20phase%20of%20Brexit%262019-03-27T17%3A32%3A56.062Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:c3abcb37-83ce-45f7-b575-f28b78f3127b&pinned_post_asset_id=5c9bb3c785e90c0667537b52&pinned_post_type=share)

The Guardian liveblog link (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/27/brexit-latest-news-live-debate-indicative-votes--to-vote-on-alternative-votes-as-speculation-mounts-may-could-announce-plans-to-quit-live-news?page=with:block-5c9bb264e4b0347f70e74c2d#block-5c9bb264e4b0347f70e74c2d).

Reactions to that are past the linked posts on both liveblogs.

I suppose it'll be for the best that she is stepping down voluntarily rather than forced out in some intra-party civil war.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 05:30:35 pm

Every. Single. Indicator. Vote. Got. Voted. Down. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/mps-reject-all-alternative-brexit-options). O.o How.... just how does this happen? I'm a mix of O.o and WTF here, lol.

Since they don't want any of them, that kind of leaves the only option to either pull the plug (revoke article 50) or commit economic seppuku (Brexit crash through). Or maybe let the Queen decide if they're so helpless? I mean, Queen Elizabeth has gotta be seriously facepalming here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 27, 2019, 05:34:27 pm

Speaking of Liz, things are gonna get real dicey if she decides to abandon her mortal shell at any point from now to resolving the Brexit crisis, which according to my data should happen around...June 12th, 2130.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 05:43:10 pm

Dicey how? Not like there'd be a succession crisis (which looks secure for the foreseeable future). There would of course be the deep mourning after losing someone of her (political and cultural) stature and moving on since she's been Queen for so long, but I don't see that as being dicey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 27, 2019, 05:45:40 pm

Loss of confidence and probably real questions from the left about maintaining the monarchy. Liz is above reproach, even when she sits in a golden room and reads out a speech telling British people to tighten their belts. Her descendants....not quite so revered.

It's be a significant stressor on the already stressful Brexit ceaseless nightmare universe.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 05:54:45 pm

True, but that's a separate bridge that is going to be crossed regardless when the time comes.

Don't know about Charles, but William (and Harry I think) seems to be aiming to remake the British Monarchy/Royalty into a new image for the 21st century. If anybody is going to be remaking the monarchy into a new era, it's going to be William as it's making a huge generational jump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 27, 2019, 06:32:11 pm

I’m not sure the monarch dying would do that much, seeing as they don’t do anything, but I’m a staunch Republican so I would say that.

Anyway, this just makes the idea of some Tory Brexiteers supporting May’s deal because she’s leaving more sickening. This is apparently a game to them, and the goal of the game is evidently how they can secure more power for themselves within their own party while they allow the country to hurtle off the cliff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on March 27, 2019, 06:41:55 pm

Quote from: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 05:30:35 pm

Every. Single. Indicator. Vote. Got. Voted. Down. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/mps-reject-all-alternative-brexit-options). O.o How.... just how does this happen? I'm a mix of O.o and WTF here, lol.

Since they don't want any of them, that kind of leaves the only option to either pull the plug (revoke article 50) or commit economic seppuku (Brexit crash through). Or maybe let the Queen decide if they're so helpless? I mean, Queen Elizabeth has gotta be seriously facepalming here.

Except that revoking article 50 (184-293) and crashing out with no deal (160-400) were two of the votes that failed.

Picture if you will, four Brits in a sinking rowboat. Each spots land in a different cardinal direction and proceeds to row as hard as they can in their chosen direction. Thus, the boat goes nowhere and eventually they're all going to drown, even though they've voted out drowning as an option.

Honestly, the Crown dissolving Parliament and retaking the reins of power would be hilarious at this stage. Let the Iron Fist of Windsor rule Brittania!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 06:51:39 pm

The most that I can see Queen Elizabeth doing is giving Parliament a stern talking to, but from what I know of her, even doing that wouldn't be her style, at least not in a direct way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 27, 2019, 07:14:59 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/wIqS18J.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 27, 2019, 09:34:45 pm

*America burns in the background*

I mean, do they have protocols for this shit? Maybe do a ranked choice vote, at least tear 1 or 2 options out?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2019, 09:42:04 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on March 27, 2019, 09:34:45 pm

*America burns in the background*

I mean, do they have protocols for this shit? Maybe do a ranked choice vote, at least tear 1 or 2 options out?

Seems to have been the political equivalent of throwing food at a wall and seeing what sticks. No idea what their protocol for this kind of thing is, or how unusual the method of voting for several things at once like that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 27, 2019, 09:45:19 pm

None of the things that were being voted on were legally binding regardless of whether or not they would’ve got a majority. it was basically parliament flexing its muscles because they have no confidence in Theresa May’s government even though they voted that they had confidence in Theresa May’s government.

They’re basically acknowledging no deal will be a shitshow, and they’re trying to look as though they’re doing something about it until the point they actually have to do something about. The last part is more of a hope than what will probably happen, because everybody’s playing stupid political games and not thinking about how fucking stupid they all look.

PPE: this was basically expected to happen. The last time indicative votes were used was in ‘03 for House of Lords reform. None of the proposed reforms got a majority, and no reform took place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 27, 2019, 11:05:04 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 27, 2019, 09:45:19 pm

... not thinking about how fucking stupid they all look.

Which is mildly odd, considering from a distance that seems to be literally the only thing they're actually accomplishing at the moment. Is there really no self-awareness as to how much of a farce all this is among the UK parliament?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2019, 08:27:07 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47725529
God bless are based NIrish
The DUP are hammering the nails in the coffin. May will step down

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 28, 2019, 09:39:14 am

They're doing to do a debate on things tomorrow and possibly a new vote. Though both sound somewhat iffy whether they're going to happen or not, particularily the vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 28, 2019, 10:25:41 am

Unionists are quite fond of the old "No Surrender" mantra. I've been worried the DUP would stab us in the back by caving at some point, but much less worried about it than I would be about an equivalent English party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 28, 2019, 10:29:35 am

Speaking of the DUP, I saw some speculation that the DUP might split over a new vote due to, um, sheneinighans or something involving Therea May offering to resign or something with some of them backing out from what the party was going to do or something.

Just politics as usual I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on March 28, 2019, 01:20:28 pm

Soo.. If I'm understanding this tomorrow's brexit vote/debate thing correct, the parliament will debate, and I presume vote, on the withdrawal agreement but not the political declaration guiding the future relationship between UK and EU. So in effect the vote is going to be Theresa's deal without promise for future.

I need to go through this again, because this doesn't make much sense to me:

In order get the twice defeated deal through, the deal hasn't been altered at all.
Instead Theresa May has set a less vague date for her resignation (IIRC May had promised to quit before the next election anyway), and there's no longer a political declaration (i.e. fancy words) about being friends with the EU in the future.

I saw a headline about journalists in the EU getting popcorn ready for more of the brexit circus. I think they'll rather be getting something for a sprained brain, like alcohol, aspirin and amphetamines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 28, 2019, 02:16:48 pm

I'm assuming it's to get round Bercow's "no vote on substantially the same thing" ruling, even though it is exactly the same thing that was voted on and defeated a few weeks back, without another superfluous bit on it.

Opposition parties raging though, as they say they were promised a meaningful vote on both the withdrawal agreement and also the fancy shmancy "we shall remain friends" political stuff.

I think Theresa May should just double down on the obtuse political nonsense.

"You've already had your meaningful vote," she'll say, "I even allowed you two!" and they will be silenced because she is right.

"We want you out!" they will shout.

"Then pass my deal and I'll be gone." she will respond.

etc I'm too tired.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 28, 2019, 02:36:44 pm

Bercow has also been saying that he won't let the meaningful vote go through a third time without 'significant changes'.

Three different attempts to explain things:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/mar/28/brexit-latest-news-live-no-deal-on-12-april-most-likely-unless-mps-back-mays-deal-or-alternative-says-letwin-politics-live?page=with:block-5c9d0705e4b0b4d18bde1f81#block-5c9d0705e4b0b4d18bde1f81

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/28/why-are-mps-going-to-vote-on-just-the-brexit-withdrawal-agreement

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47739143

From what I can understand, the split is so that they can vote on the withdrawl agreement that extends the exit date to May 22nd (I think?) and if that vote fails, they're on an unstoppable path to no-deal Brexit crash through on April 12th, unless they revoke article 50. If it passes, the exit date gets extended to May 22nd. However, I'm not sure whether the May 22nd is supposed to be also no-deal or is going to be Theresa May's deal or if they still have to decide whether they want to have a no-deal exit or use May's plan for that date.

In order to extend it any further than May 22nd though, they'll have to decide whether to participate in the EU elections, which is counterintuitive to the point of Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on March 28, 2019, 03:01:56 pm

To further complicate things, I thought the May 22 date was only permissible to the EU *if* Parliament approved some kind of a deal. If they vote for May 22 but then fail to approve any kind of plan, I think the EU is still looking at April 12 as the crash-out date.

It's starting to remind me of the "Bring Out Your Dead" sketch.

"Here, he says he's not dead!"
"Well, he will be in a minute, he's very ill."
"Look, I can't take him like that, it's against regulations!"
"Well, can't you wait around a bit, he won't be very long..."

Meanwhile Theresa May is the dying leper. "I think I'll go for a walk..."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 28, 2019, 03:43:11 pm

"I feel happyyyyy..."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 28, 2019, 03:59:18 pm

You know, I wonder if they have decided whether they want, or are willing, to participate in the EU elections. I read an article earlier this month or maybe last that theres a legal problem if the election happens and if the members meet while one doesn't partipate (or is undergoing an article 50), they're suddenly in the schrodinger zone of being legit and illegitimate at the same time. Which is why extending past June suddenly became a big deal.

Had it been in the middle or near the beginning, it probably wouldn't have been a problem since they'd have to participate until the exit date anyway, but since it's happening RIGHT at the exit date, it's entering a weird legal Twilight Zone^TM that seems like nobody really expected to actually become a problem. As a result, any ask for an extension beyond May 22nd is going to hinge on whether or not they want to participate in the EU elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 29, 2019, 03:52:03 am

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/102858/new-royal-yacht-britannia-would-‘unite’-country-after
"New Royal Yacht Britannia would ‘unite’ the country after Brexit, says minister"

Glad to see people have their priorities in order

Also I wanted to share this

(https://finofilipino.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/interminable.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 29, 2019, 08:35:08 am

The Royal Yacht's been a long time in the planning, I remember speaking to an RN Captain who said it was daft we weren't mass producing the bloody things since all it took for them to pay their costs back was host a few plutocratic Murricans who wanted to say they met Queen Lizard

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 29, 2019, 10:16:19 am

To perhaps nobodys surprise, Mays deal is rejected a third time (not as embarrassing difference in vote, but that's moot). Now it's on a runaway train to April 12th no-deal Brexit, and Donald Tusk is calling an emergency EU meeting on the 10th. What happens next remains to be seen.

If they haven't decided whether they want to participate in the EU elections yet, they'd better decide now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on March 29, 2019, 10:21:25 am

Is tusk like the American donald

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 29, 2019, 10:24:10 am

No, they're total opposites pretty much and just happens to share the same first name and initials.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 29, 2019, 10:25:14 am

They're not particularly opposite at all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 29, 2019, 10:28:25 am

Well, perhaps not total, but I wouldn't say that they're similar.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 29, 2019, 10:30:11 am

Any person with at least some semblance of decency, integrity, and competence is the opposite of Trump.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 29, 2019, 10:33:35 am

Yeah they're not similar, people actually voted for Trump

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 29, 2019, 10:35:41 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 29, 2019, 10:33:35 am

Yeah they're not similar, people actually voted for Trump

*sick burn*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 29, 2019, 10:50:39 am

Hah!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on March 29, 2019, 11:11:41 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 29, 2019, 10:33:35 am

Yeah they're not similar, people actually voted for Trump

The EU council presidency is also voted in, by heads of member states. So the causal link to people's vote remains.
It's just another level removed from local elections, same as e.g. election of party leaders (and by extension who gets to be the head of state in case of a party winning) and ministers is not done directly by the electorate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 29, 2019, 02:09:56 pm

Ok, but after austerity I still don't see how the Brits aren't making guillotine memes, let alone the new layer of hell we've discovered here. Even the Corbynites won't do it. Does Liz really have that much mental real estate?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 29, 2019, 09:11:50 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 29, 2019, 02:09:56 pm

Ok, but after austerity I still don't see how the Brits aren't making guillotine memes, let alone the new layer of hell we've discovered here. Even the Corbynites won't do it. Does Liz really have that much mental real estate?

Well it ain’t her fault, is it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 29, 2019, 09:17:02 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 29, 2019, 09:11:50 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 29, 2019, 02:09:56 pm

Ok, but after austerity I still don't see how the Brits aren't making guillotine memes, let alone the new layer of hell we've discovered here. Even the Corbynites won't do it. Does Liz really have that much mental real estate?

Well it ain’t her fault, is it?

T’be fair, she could’ve refused to endorse the government - or whatever it is she does to rubber stamp it - but that would very likely have ended up poorly.

Would’ve been brilliant though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 30, 2019, 04:37:13 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 29, 2019, 09:17:02 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on March 29, 2019, 09:11:50 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on March 29, 2019, 02:09:56 pm

Ok, but after austerity I still don't see how the Brits aren't making guillotine memes, let alone the new layer of hell we've discovered here. Even the Corbynites won't do it. Does Liz really have that much mental real estate?

Well it ain’t her fault, is it?

T’be fair, she could’ve refused to endorse the government - or whatever it is she does to rubber stamp it - but that would very likely have ended up poorly.

Would’ve been brilliant though.

I think the king of Belgium or the Netherlands or one of those anyway recently did something like that.... a mini abdication for five minutes  during which the acting head of state was the PM so that he could have someone else sign a law that he disliked (I think it was something concerning abortion?) . I remember this be ause the king of Spain when askedmif he would do the same about gay marriage he declined (I think he was self-conscious that constitutional monarchies put up with the figure of the king largely insofar as that king doesnt become a pain in the ass... )

Anyways:  rumors are Theresa May is planning asking for an extension WITH a general election... probably with a long extension for brexit in the process. I'm not sure as to whether an election would fix anything given that all recent polls suggest an even more hung parliament.

My personal theory is that she will let the MPs do the second round of indicative voting and then try to frame a final vote between her deal and whichever is the least disliked option, with an either/or operator in the vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 30, 2019, 09:15:26 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 29, 2019, 09:17:02 pm

T’be fair, she could’ve refused to endorse the government - or whatever it is she does to rubber stamp it - but that would very likely have ended up poorly.

Would’ve been brilliant though.

In this case, the Queen could actually pull it off, especially since the actual authority of May's government is more symbolic than the Queen's atm. It would need the support of Boris AND Corbyn, but it could be done

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 30, 2019, 05:35:27 pm

It would come at a huge cost to the monarchy, though. The Queen, in particular, would be hailed by the most fervent as an anti-democratic tyrant imposing her will on the Government, even with key Parliamentary allies. Only at the moment of greatest crisis would I condone the Queen's direct intervention, and we are not (quite) there yet.

The Clock is ticking, though, and I suspect the Fourth May Not Be With Us. We are teetering on the edge of having an anti-democratic government, whatever flowery language and justifications given.


As an aside, was in London last week. Got to shake my fist at Parliament buildings, which was cathartic but ultimately fruitless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on March 30, 2019, 08:57:34 pm

Aren't the most fervent going to call her a tyrant if she even says anything anyway?

She has more subtle methods and she knows how to employ them without riling up those who would object. So, it'd be one of those.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 06:37:54 pm

They still can't decide: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47781009 Theres gotta be a better way to resolve this...

Also, a week or two ago, I saw an article saying that a former Irish PM (well, a former politician, I forget who) said that they could ttry public commissions or something which are common in NI or something. That idea would have been good to suggest two years ago.....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 01, 2019, 07:13:12 pm

I have a question concerning shipping stuff to Ireland (for obvious reasons) for anyone familiar with sea routes: Is there any reason why freighters can't sail directly across the Gulf of Biscay to and From Ireland?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 01, 2019, 07:22:40 pm

They can and do. If I had to take a guess, though, it's because the ports on the Bay of Biscay don't amount to a fraction of the traffic coming out of north European ports like Le Havre, Antwerp, Bremen, Hamburg, Rotterdam, and Felixstowe.  I've added an interesting map I found while poking around at this question; you can still see some traffic following the route you suggest, even if it's not as much because the source and destination ports aren't as large.

What really surprised me looking at this is that Bordeaux doesn't even seem to rank compared to most hubs, given how it's always been an excellent harbour through history.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/2Yw6XqB.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 07:28:21 pm

Starting from where? Spain? Though looking at wikipedia, it's home to some of the nastiest storm conditions in the Atlantic.

edit: Ninja'd. Though if you want whatever is being delivered to arrive in a reasonable amount of time (for the item), you'd be better off doing it by air.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 01, 2019, 07:33:06 pm

I'm mostly thinking groceries. I'm talking about supermarket levels of shipping, not me arranging shipping anything.

Mostly I'm concerned about my orange supplies, and to a lesser extent my salad supplies

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 07:36:15 pm

You'd probably be better off asking your supplier. Unless theres some sort of dockworker strike I haven't heard about, not sure why you'd be worried about the shipping.

If you're worried about Brexit, a no-deal Brexit will screw with everything, even with contingency plans in place. Though I think those contingency plans are mainly just to keep it from getting to apocalypse levels of crisis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 01, 2019, 07:52:38 pm

If this is about the potential impact of Brexit on Irish shipping, it's also worth noting that it seems less than 10% of Ireland's combined imports and exports come from overland routes, and if I figure it right, that's essentially bilateral trade with Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK that doesn't go any further.  Even leaving aside the particular case of Ireland being an island, direct bulk transport of goods is just so much more efficient by maritime routes where such options exist, and I'm not sure Ireland imports that much food from the UK directly.  It's likely more efficient, leaving aside maximum local capacities which I couldn't track down, to have food come in from most of the world to offload it in Cork or Dublin instead of moving through the Irish Sea to Belfast (which seem to be the three container ports on the island).  That said, Ireland is also mostly self-sufficient in food if you listen to their own Department of Agriculture, so imports would likely come from nations that don't have similar climates and by extension crops.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 08:04:44 pm

Maybe he's in NI and not ROI?

Also, while it won't affect Ireland directly, the ripple effects will, which could be what he's worried about. Not sure how the Bay of Biscay fits into his worries about his favorite oranges though, other than maybe the Basque region? *shrug*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 01, 2019, 08:34:28 pm

It's likely because Spain grows around 5-6 million tons of citrus fruit a year, a bit under half of which are oranges.  They're one of the largest global producers of oranges, and I'd imagine they feed a good chunk of Europe with whatever isn't coming from the US or Brazil.

Fun fact I found while looking this up: Valencia oranges don't come from Valencia.  They were first hybridized by an American-turned-Mexican-turned-American who had moved to California. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on April 01, 2019, 08:39:44 pm

I'm curious to see the ripple effects on British imports from outside Europe that transit Europe (such as, I'm assuming, goods from Turkey and the Levant).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 02, 2019, 02:10:53 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 08:04:44 pm

Maybe he's in NI and not ROI?

Also, while it won't affect Ireland directly, the ripple effects will, which could be what he's worried about. Not sure how the Bay of Biscay fits into his worries about his favorite oranges though, other than maybe the Basque region? *shrug*

ROI. If I was in NI... I'd probably have packed up to go home a while ago, as my adventures abroad are driven in no small measure by the relative simplicity and lack of prpblems FoM provides in this regard, both in regards to burocracy abroad and back home.


I'm concerned about fresh groceries as some newspaper articles said that if shipping was done through French ports rather than the UK  things would spoil. And my thinking was "hey, most of the fruit and vegetables are likely coming from Spain anyway. Why dont they ship directly?". It's not related to any personal concerns. Also orange trees dont really grow in the Basque country, which is for the most part as dark and wet as anywhere else in the Atlantic coast 🤣🤣🤣

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 02, 2019, 05:43:29 am

I don't understand. Just come to NI, Chairman. We have plenty of Oranges right here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on April 02, 2019, 06:46:38 am

-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 02, 2019, 10:55:45 am

Brex another day: The man with the golden Brex (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TCYaUj3gkI)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 02, 2019, 11:53:37 am

@LW: I don't get it, then again it's probably something that would be lost on most Americans.

Anyways, looking at The Guardian liveblog, Theresa May is supposed to make some sort of statement soon. My guess is that she'll announce she is going to resign (my idea for a little bit of a late April Fools troll on you guys).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 02, 2019, 12:02:31 pm

Quote from: smjjames on April 02, 2019, 11:53:37 am

@LW: I don't get it, then again it's probably something that would be lost on most Americans.

Even Americans know about James Bond :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 02, 2019, 12:19:18 pm

I meant the video itself....

Theresa May is asking for a short extension, but Macron and others are saying that an extension needs to have some sort of purpose behind it. In other words, they don't want to add more time just for the sake of adding more time, which is kind of what it sounds like.

editwhiletyping: It also sounds like she's closing the door to participating in the EU elections, meaning that May 22th is the absolute last date that they can extend it to.

IMO they should stay in Brexit negotiating sessions and in Parliament every day until they can figure something out, bet that things will get resolved in short order just so that they can go home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 02, 2019, 06:15:00 pm

I've recommend something like that before, amusingly enough, though I forget if it were here or elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure it was in relation to US Congress, but still. A straightforward solution to all this bullshit. They put parliament into session, and then no one gets to leave, or sleep, until an accord is reached and actionable agreement met.

Within a week or two you'd either have a path forward or a real good excuse to hold an election or somethin' to fill recently vacated seats, preferably with people more intent on getting something done before they get done in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TamerVirus on April 02, 2019, 06:40:54 pm

Just have them all do a free for all battle royale. Last MP standing chooses that happens with Brexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 03, 2019, 07:06:24 am

Wouldn't that be a resignation royale? Last one standing gets all the blame?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: RedKing on April 03, 2019, 09:14:11 am

Quote from: Frumple on April 02, 2019, 06:15:00 pm

I've recommend something like that before, amusingly enough, though I forget if it were here or elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure it was in relation to US Congress, but still. A straightforward solution to all this bullshit. They put parliament into session, and then no one gets to leave, or sleep, until an accord is reached and actionable agreement met.

Within a week or two you'd either have a path forward or a real good excuse to hold an election or somethin' to fill recently vacated seats, preferably with people more intent on getting something done before they get done in.

Corollary suggestion: no tea or bathroom breaks until there's a solution.

"I object to the right honorable member for Upper Tweedwick-on-Merrybrooke's objection, on the grounds that he appears to have shat himself."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2019, 11:36:32 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 02, 2019, 12:19:18 pm

I meant the video itself....

The people there are all key players in the post-Cameron Brexit negotiations, all put together into a surreal and loving satire of James Bond: you only li(ea)ve twice

Quote from: smjjames on April 02, 2019, 12:19:18 pm

Theresa May is asking for a short extension, but Macron and others are saying that an extension needs to have some sort of purpose behind it. In other words, they don't want to add more time just for the sake of adding more time, which is kind of what it sounds like.

Of course there's a purpose, every day Theresa May gets to extend her workdays with a PM's salary

Quote from: RedKing on April 03, 2019, 09:14:11 am

Corollary suggestion: no tea or bathroom breaks until there's a solution.

"I object to the right honorable member for Upper Tweedwick-on-Merrybrooke's objection, on the grounds that he appears to have shat himself."

This sort of thing has unironically occurred in British politics before. After RBS fucked up and was on the brink of insolvency, Britgov sent a finance minister to go offer RBS a deal - Britgov purchases shares in RBS to give RBS the required capital to avoid insolvency, while Britgov gains enough ownership of RBS to fire/cut the pay packages of whoever they want. RBS prepared to negotiate the fuck out of the minister until they secured necessary concessions (or even a whole bailout free of a share purchasing deal) when the finance minister gave them the Britgov's deal and announced they were leaving the meeting to go get a curry, giving the RBS officers a few hours to decide or go home to a national crisis. They took the absolute madlad's deal without a single one of their concessions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 03, 2019, 03:35:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 01, 2019, 07:33:06 pm

Mostly I'm concerned about my orange supplies, and to a lesser extent my salad supplies

I've heard limes work just as well.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2019, 11:36:32 am

This sort of thing has unironically occurred in British politics before. After RBS fucked up and was on the brink of insolvency, Britgov sent a finance minister to go offer RBS a deal - Britgov purchases shares in RBS to give RBS the required capital to avoid insolvency, while Britgov gains enough ownership of RBS to fire/cut the pay packages of whoever they want. RBS prepared to negotiate the fuck out of the minister until they secured necessary concessions (or even a whole bailout free of a share purchasing deal) when the finance minister gave them the Britgov's deal and announced they were leaving the meeting to go get a curry, giving the RBS officers a few hours to decide or go home to a national crisis. They took the absolute madlad's deal without a single one of their concessions

Huh, I think I like a government person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kiron123 on April 03, 2019, 08:02:26 pm

Quote from: Iduno on April 03, 2019, 03:35:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 01, 2019, 07:33:06 pm

Mostly I'm concerned about my orange supplies, and to a lesser extent my salad supplies

I've heard limes work just as well.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 03, 2019, 11:36:32 am

This sort of thing has unironically occurred in British politics before. After RBS fucked up and was on the brink of insolvency, Britgov sent a finance minister to go offer RBS a deal - Britgov purchases shares in RBS to give RBS the required capital to avoid insolvency, while Britgov gains enough ownership of RBS to fire/cut the pay packages of whoever they want. RBS prepared to negotiate the fuck out of the minister until they secured necessary concessions (or even a whole bailout free of a share purchasing deal) when the finance minister gave them the Britgov's deal and announced they were leaving the meeting to go get a curry, giving the RBS officers a few hours to decide or go home to a national crisis. They took the absolute madlad's deal without a single one of their concessions

Huh, I think I like a government person.

That is funny!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

So if Brussels doesn't agree to more postponing, it looks like article 50 needs to be revoked and the Brexit cancelled since a No-Deal Brexit is now forbidden by law.
I for one do not mind.
Note that I am no fan of the EU in it's current form, but I am all for cooperation and solidarity in Europe.

In my opinion the Brexit has always been an unnescessary ultra-nationalist schism that's no good for all concerned parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 04, 2019, 05:46:23 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

So if Brussels doesn't agree to more postponing, it looks like article 50 needs to be revoked and the Brexit cancelled since a No-Deal Brexit is now forbidden by law.
I for one do not mind.
Note that I am no fan of the EU in it's current form, but I am all for cooperation and solidarity in Europe.

In my opinion the Brexit has always been an unnescessary ultra-nationalist schism that's no good for all concerned parties.

It's 12:45 PM and I'm already tired. I just read that first line as "So if Brussels doesn't agree to more shitposting..."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 04, 2019, 06:28:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

In my opinion the Brexit has always been an unnescessary ultra-nationalist schism that's no good for all concerned parties.

And in my opinion, it's the best thing for all concerned parties.

It's a funny world, ain't it? :P

Edit: Oh, also, No Deal isn't illegal. It's just been voted against, which is not the same thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on April 04, 2019, 06:54:24 am

-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 04, 2019, 07:03:44 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 04, 2019, 06:28:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

In my opinion the Brexit has always been an unnescessary ultra-nationalist schism that's no good for all concerned parties.

And in my opinion, it's the best thing for all concerned parties.

It's a funny world, ain't it? :P

Edit: Oh, also, No Deal isn't illegal. It's just been voted against, which is not the same thing.

Voted against by the elected representatives of the people. Not legally binding, but neither was the referendum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 04, 2019, 07:24:01 am

And hence "revoke Article 50" is on the table. Not that it would be wise to incur the wrath of literally millions upon millions of people though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 04, 2019, 07:27:46 am

You're going to do that regardless, though. Nearly the same amount wanted nothing to do with it at the time of the referendum, and that number has only grown. There is no "don't piss off literally millions of people" option.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 04, 2019, 07:32:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

So if Brussels doesn't agree to more postponing, it looks like article 50 needs to be revoked and the Brexit cancelled since a No-Deal Brexit is now forbidden by law.
I for one do not mind.

Lol m8 slow down on the guardian there, that isn't happening. What's happening is a bit more intriguing

A labour oldguard (when I say "oldguard" I mean a remnant of Brown, not a dino crew like Corby) called Yvette Cooper proposed the bill in Parliament. This is already where it starts getting weird, because this is one of those exceedingly rare moments in British history where a party with a minority in Parliament and without any government posts has proposed and passed legislation in the House of Commons. It's the effect of Theresa May's deletion of government authority coming full circle: the Parliament is truly sovereign, having assumed greater authority over the Prime Minister's duties than the Prime Minister herself.

It's a spicy constitutional meme which has already established a new convention and will likely cause headaches for Prime Ministers of the future for generations and centuries to come! ;D
The proposed legislation in question seeks to abrogate Theresa May's indefinite extensions to negotiations; so if she wants more extensions, it'll have to be approved by parliament, with parliament reserving the right to reject or modify the extension timeframe. This also declaws Theresa May's primary method of threatening to samson option the UK, by taking away her ability to hold the negotiations for ransom.

The opposition MPs wanted this deal to pass for rather obvious reasons; Theresa May's avin' a right giggle and the opposition wants to keep the UK in the EU. The pro-Remain Tories would rather support their scarecrow than throw it to the pyre, while the pro-Leave MPs are caught in a pinch because they had the choice of supporting the pro-Remain government or the pro-Remain opposition lolololololololol deja vu

The legislation ended up passing by a margin of one dude. Anyone who says voting doesn't matter should sit the fuck down

Whether this passes the House of Lords (it'd take some further intrigue for this not to occur, the HOL have been preparing to pass this legislation provided it passed the HOC), Theresa May will have her hands tied unless she actually tries to give parliament a deal they like, or parliament takes on the mantle of eternal Brexit extender, or Brexit happens, or it doesn't.

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2019, 05:20:37 am

Note that I am no fan of the EU in it's current form, but I am all for cooperation and solidarity in Europe.
In my opinion the Brexit has always been an unnescessary ultra-nationalist schism that's no good for all concerned parties.

m910 you talk of schisms to the country that told the pope 2 schisms wasn't enough. In short, we are not of the view that cooperation and integration are the same thing

Quote from: Frumple on April 04, 2019, 07:27:46 am

You're going to do that regardless, though. Nearly the same amount wanted nothing to do with it at the time of the referendum, and that number has only grown. There is no "don't piss off literally millions of people" option.

Theresa May resigning would be welcomed by everyone

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 04, 2019, 07:49:50 am

Wait, I think I'm starting to understand it...

In order for the Rite of Separation to be completed, there needs to be a ritual sacrifice of a virgin. Due to the current economic climate, naturally-grown virgins are in scarce supply; so alternative solutions need to be explored.

I believe May is trying to piss everyone off to the point where she becomes so unfuckable that she revirgins, at which point the offering can take place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 04, 2019, 08:28:39 am

That would be awkward for Philip May.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 04, 2019, 08:54:27 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 04, 2019, 07:49:50 am

Wait, I think I'm starting to understand it...
In order for the Rite of Separation to be completed, there needs to be a ritual sacrifice of a virgin. Due to the current economic climate, naturally-grown virgins are in scarce supply; so alternative solutions need to be explored.
I believe May is trying to piss everyone off to the point where she becomes so unfuckable that she revirgins, at which point the offering can take place.

Until we leave the EU we're not allowed to commune with the Elder beings directly, so it's a bit of a catch 20-20 on the virgin offerings. smh tbqh the EU's devastated poor fishing towns like Innsmouth

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 04, 2019, 08:59:22 am

Innsmouth isn't part of the EU, tho'. It's not even on the same side of the atlantic. American grasp of geography is bad but it's not bad enough to teleport a massachusetts town to europe...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: sluissa on April 04, 2019, 10:05:20 am

EU! EU! Customs union fhtagn!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 04, 2019, 10:12:27 am

Huh, it still has to pass the House of Lords? With all the focus on the House of Commons, I wasn't sure if it had to. If you hadn't said that they were willing to rubber stamp it, I'd have imagined it potentially being a lovecraftian nightmare to get through. Unless they generally rubber stamp things coming from the House of Commons anyway.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 03:17:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 04, 2019, 10:12:27 am

Huh, it still has to pass the House of Lords? With all the focus on the House of Commons, I wasn't sure if it had to. If you hadn't said that they were willing to rubber stamp it, I'd have imagined it potentially being a lovecraftian nightmare to get through. Unless they generally rubber stamp things coming from the House of Commons anyway.

They are usually a rubber stamp House

Quote from: Frumple on April 04, 2019, 08:59:22 am

Innsmouth isn't part of the EU, tho'. It's not even on the same side of the atlantic. American grasp of geography is bad but it's not bad enough to teleport a massachusetts town to europe...

American grasp of geography is almost as bad as American grasp of history or bants

American geographical names were either appropriated from natives or named after places in the old world; were Innsmouth real, it'd be named after any number of the Mouths in the old world

There's even a Dunwich in England

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 04:01:25 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 03:17:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 04, 2019, 10:12:27 am

Huh, it still has to pass the House of Lords? With all the focus on the House of Commons, I wasn't sure if it had to. If you hadn't said that they were willing to rubber stamp it, I'd have imagined it potentially being a lovecraftian nightmare to get through. Unless they generally rubber stamp things coming from the House of Commons anyway.

They are usually a rubber stamp House

Quote from: Frumple on April 04, 2019, 08:59:22 am

Innsmouth isn't part of the EU, tho'. It's not even on the same side of the atlantic. American grasp of geography is bad but it's not bad enough to teleport a massachusetts town to europe...

American grasp of geography is almost as bad as American grasp of history or bants

American geographical names were either appropriated from natives or named after places in the old world; were Innsmouth real, it'd be named after any number of the Mouths in the old world

There's even a Dunwich in England

Is it horrible?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 05, 2019, 08:41:23 am

of course it is; it's in england

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 09:09:28 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 04:01:25 am

Is it horrible?

It's a dilapidated village that's the only remnant of a once great town, now swept beneath the seas

so it's england

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 05, 2019, 09:20:21 am

Theresa Mays asked the EU to push back the deadline to 20th June, with a provision to end immediately if a deal is agreed between UK and EU. BBC political analyst says that the EU is likely to not want to approve a second such one-month extension, but might approve a longer one now that the “and if we come to a deal we drop out immediately instead of running down the clock” is on the table

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 09:45:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 09:09:28 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 04:01:25 am

Is it horrible?

It's a dilapidated village that's the only remnant of a once great town, now swept beneath the seas

Am I the only one who after reading this hears it in the voice of the Darkest Dungeon narrator?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 10:01:56 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 09:45:09 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 05, 2019, 09:09:28 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 05, 2019, 04:01:25 am

Is it horrible?

It's a dilapidated village that's the only remnant of a once great town, now swept beneath the seas

Am I the only one who after reading this hears it in the voice of the Darkest Dungeon narrator?

In time you shall come to understand the true failure of my negotiations... In the darkest Brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 05, 2019, 11:19:48 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 05, 2019, 09:20:21 am

Theresa Mays asked the EU to push back the deadline to 20th June, with a provision to end immediately if a deal is agreed between UK and EU. BBC political analyst says that the EU is likely to not want to approve a second such one-month extension, but might approve a longer one now that the “and if we come to a deal we drop out immediately instead of running down the clock” is on the table

Isn't that going to run up right against the fact that they have to decide whether or not to participate in the EU elections (she seems to have ruled that out) and if they decide not to participate, I've read that if they're still in the EU by the time the EU Parliament next meets up (in July or August I think), it creates a legal mess.

Basically, if they decide not to participate in the EU elections, theres going to be a hard cap on how much further they can extend things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 05, 2019, 11:29:11 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 05, 2019, 11:19:48 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 05, 2019, 09:20:21 am

Theresa Mays asked the EU to push back the deadline to 20th June, with a provision to end immediately if a deal is agreed between UK and EU. BBC political analyst says that the EU is likely to not want to approve a second such one-month extension, but might approve a longer one now that the “and if we come to a deal we drop out immediately instead of running down the clock” is on the table

Isn't that going to run up right against the fact that they have to decide whether or not to participate in the EU elections (she seems to have ruled that out) and if they decide not to participate, I've read that if they're still in the EU by the time the EU Parliament next meets up (in July or August I think), it creates a legal mess.

Basically, if they decide not to participate in the EU elections, theres going to be a hard cap on how much further they can extend things.

Initial indications seem to show that Tusk is in favour of this extension deal, though it needs to Ben ratified by an emergency council of the EU

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 05, 2019, 11:38:07 am

Yeah, I've read that he'd rather try to avoid disaster as long as possible, but the problem I'm talking about is a legal one that doesn't have a political solution other than participating in the EU elections.

Still, EU ministers are saying it's too vague to be justified and Macron wants a concrete plan (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/apr/05/brexit-latest-news-developments-live-theresa-may-writes-to-eu-requesting-another-article-50-extension-but-only-until-30-june-live-news?page=with:block-5ca774408f08d36c4a924262#block-5ca774408f08d36c4a924262), so, that extension might not even happen.

AFAIK, that extension to May 22nd or whatever hasn't been approved yet either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 08, 2019, 06:47:28 am

EU's proposed Terrorist Content regulation shockingly enables governments to censor free speech. (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190328/18503441894/eus-never-ending-quest-to-rip-internet-free-expression-to-shreds-continues-with-terrorist-content-regulation.shtml)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 08, 2019, 06:55:52 am

"Shockingly"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2019, 11:30:57 am

Copyright and terrorism; with these twin swords, just fuck my shit up fam

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 08, 2019, 12:20:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 08, 2019, 11:30:57 am

Copyright and terrorism; with these twin swords, just fuck my shit up fam

Pedophiles, Pirates, and Terrorists: The Government's Favorite PowerPoint Presentation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 08, 2019, 01:37:06 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 08, 2019, 12:25:00 pm

Also, because I found this particularly absurd- takedown requests require compliance within the hour.

I don't think even a coporation with the resources of Google is capable of complying whitin an hour to any requests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 08, 2019, 03:32:49 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 08, 2019, 01:37:06 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 08, 2019, 12:25:00 pm

Also, because I found this particularly absurd- takedown requests require compliance within the hour.

I don't think even a coporation with the resources of Google is capable of complying whitin an hour to any requests.

They can if they don't read the content and just autotakedown. Which they would do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 08, 2019, 04:52:53 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 08, 2019, 03:59:24 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on April 08, 2019, 03:32:49 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 08, 2019, 01:37:06 pm

Quote from: Ispil on April 08, 2019, 12:25:00 pm

Also, because I found this particularly absurd- takedown requests require compliance within the hour.

I don't think even a coporation with the resources of Google is capable of complying whitin an hour to any requests.

They can if they don't read the content and just autotakedown. Which they would do.

Which, ironically enough, is also forbidden by this regulation.

"Gosh, darnit, I don't care if it's impossible! Something must be done, this is something, so start doing it! My donors and fellow cronies depend on it!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 10, 2019, 08:04:26 pm

Brexit means a 7-month delay to the initial exit date (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47889404), and also electing MEPs, apparently a redline for Farage’s new political playtoy.

I think I’m going to wake up to very interesting headlines tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 10, 2019, 08:32:41 pm

Quote

Mrs May then spoke to reporters at 02:45 local time (01:45 BST) and said that, should Parliament ratify the withdrawal agreement in the first three weeks of May, the country would then not have to participate in European elections.

The PM said that, until her deal is approved, the UK "will continue to hold full membership rights and obligations".

She added: "I know there is huge frustration from many people that I have had to request this extension.

"I sincerely regret the fact that I have not yet been able to persuade Parliament."

What an absolute bitch.
On so very many levels. So very, very many.


Surely a breaking point must come, and this is it? Right, folks? Right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 10, 2019, 08:34:40 pm

It's a good day to be Jezza. Every second that passes grows his power, like a throbbing rod ready to burst all over Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 10, 2019, 11:14:59 pm

Brexit means being a MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION FOR A THOUSAND BY THOUSAND GENERATIONS

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 11, 2019, 04:24:38 am

A wild Finnish parliamentary election appears. (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/yle_poll_finns_party_sprints_to_second_place_sdp_hangs_on_in_first/10733183)

Your moves are shit.

*sigh*

I was really hoping the SOTE bullshit and the new spying laws they had tried to ram down our throats would have hurt the government parties.

Can't even vote Swedish People's Party since they want to gut unemployment benefits even more.

Guess I'll be voting Pirate Party and win zero seats.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 11, 2019, 06:03:05 am

You should start a socialist Swedish People's Party. A Swedish People's People's Party, if you wish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 11, 2019, 06:26:21 am

The Finns' Party have gone for a much more aggressive campaign than... well, anyone else, including constant social media memery and a really rather well-produced propaganda film where the country births a 'Fed Up Monster' that proceeds to hunt down and maul mainstream politicians (unnamed but implicitly the leaders of government parties).

Naturally this is not an endorsement of political violence, why would anyone think that, why are you oppressing us, no you're racist ugh. I wish the other parties would hit back with like, a superhero who beats up neonazis, but I guess they've got something lame like democratic ideals in the way.

Climate change and how to address it has dominated much of the campaigning, so it's no wonder the 'driving cars and eating meat are natural human right, also scientists know nothing anyway' Finns' Party stands out from the rest. That and our several immigrant rape scandals have won them this election, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 11, 2019, 06:42:50 am

It doesn't help the battle against climate change that Finland is so sparsely populated that a car becomes a necessity if you don't live in the big cities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2019, 08:20:53 am

Julian Assange has been arrested in London over the wikileaks leaks, on request by the US goverment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TamerVirus on April 11, 2019, 08:49:07 am

So how long before a suicide by two bullets to the back of the head death by natural causes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 11, 2019, 08:57:42 am

My money's on heart attack, caused by naturally falling on bullets

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 11, 2019, 09:44:50 am

Quote from: da_nang on April 11, 2019, 06:42:50 am

It doesn't help the battle against climate change that Finland is so sparsely populated that a car becomes a necessity if you don't live in the big cities.

Still better than the US, where having a car is a necessity. Especially if you live in a big city.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 11, 2019, 07:26:32 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on April 11, 2019, 09:44:50 am

Quote from: da_nang on April 11, 2019, 06:42:50 am

It doesn't help the battle against climate change that Finland is so sparsely populated that a car becomes a necessity if you don't live in the big cities.

Still better than the US, where having a car is a necessity. Especially if you live in a big city.

Unless maybe the area has good public transport, but even then....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 14, 2019, 03:41:55 pm

98% of votes counted in Finnish Parliamentary Elections.

Social democrats is at 17.7% of votes (40 seats), with True Finns at 17.6% (39 seats). National Coalition party 16.8% (37 seats), Center Party 13.9% (31 seats), Greens 11.4% (20 seats), The Left Alliance 8.2% (16 seats), Swedish People's Party 4.5% (10 seats), Christian Democrats 3.9% (5 seats), Blue Future 1.0% (No seats), others 2.9% (2 seats).

No Pirate got a seat, as predicted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 15, 2019, 09:00:56 am

'Tis now official. EU Copyright Directive has been passed, 19-6 in the Council of Ministers.

Petition your government to refuse to implement it, a sort of national civil disobedience. Refuse to pay any fines or accept any punishment from the ECJ.

Vote Pirate.

Hail Hydra.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2019, 09:09:11 am

I think Britain should hold a vote independent of Parliament or Government. The result? To kill the gods and topple their thrones, or to remain with our necks stretched on the block, our eyes food for the political carrion class.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 15, 2019, 01:10:57 pm

Quote from: da_nang on April 14, 2019, 03:41:55 pm

98% of votes counted in Finnish Parliamentary Elections.

Social democrats is at 17.7% of votes (40 seats), with True Finns at 17.6% (39 seats). National Coalition party 16.8% (37 seats), Center Party 13.9% (31 seats), Greens 11.4% (20 seats), The Left Alliance 8.2% (16 seats), Swedish People's Party 4.5% (10 seats), Christian Democrats 3.9% (5 seats), Blue Future 1.0% (No seats), others 2.9% (2 seats).

No Pirate got a seat, as predicted.

This is a historically fragmented election result, which makes it difficult for a satisfactory coalition government to be formed. Everyone is going to have to compromise a lot, so nobody's voters are going to be happy... We also got cheated out of the women's ice hockey world championship at the same time due to a game-winning goal being disallowed after the celebrations had already started, just to rub the salt in the wound. 

In other news, the Notre Dame is burning down. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47941794) I had time to make bad Hunchback of Notre Dame jokes before the depressing weight of possibly losing a major piece of cultural heritage hit. Now I'm just sad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 15, 2019, 01:12:47 pm

You didn’t get cheated, one of your players took out the goalie as the other scored.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2019, 02:09:21 pm

It will be rebuilt. It's OK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on April 15, 2019, 03:11:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 15, 2019, 01:12:47 pm

You didn’t get cheated, one of your players took out the goalie as the other scored.

The contact with the goalie was incidental and was outside of goalie's area so, according to IIHF rules, the goal should've been accepted:

From IIHF rule 183:
"...Incidental contact is allowed when the goaltender is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease, provided the attacking skater makes a reasonable effort to minimize or avoid such contact."

And from IIHF rule 185:
"An attacking skater who makes incidental contact with a goaltender out of his goal crease while both try to gain possession of the puck will not be penalized. If a goal is scored at this time, the goal will count."

Both the referees would have accepted the goal, but the video referee overruled them. (Something they are only allowed to do if they are absolutely sure.)

The US goalie even got a penalty for tripping the player who "interfered" her...

(Besides the elections, the news here today have had a lot about hockey rules...)

And back to politics:

After the Finnish elections, the Social Democrats will have a lot of fun trying to form a government. They'll need to choose either the True Finns, National Coalition or Center Party, and then either another one of those or two smaller parties. It's fun because:
a) Pretty much no one wants to be in the same government with the True Finns.
b) The National Coalition's agenda is pretty much the exact opposite of SDP's.
c) The Center Party lost huge in the election and they are not too keen to have an other round in the government and risk losing more support.

I expect our next government will have the Social Democrats and the Greens and, either the Center Party and the Left Alliance, or the National Coalition and Swedish People's Party. Either of these combinations would have a small majority of 107 seats out of 200.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 15, 2019, 05:05:20 pm

Quote from: Ametsala on April 15, 2019, 03:11:40 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 15, 2019, 01:12:47 pm

You didn’t get cheated, one of your players took out the goalie as the other scored.

The contact with the goalie was incidental and was outside of goalie's area so, according to IIHF rules, the goal should've been accepted:

From IIHF rule 183:
"...Incidental contact is allowed when the goaltender is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease, provided the attacking skater makes a reasonable effort to minimize or avoid such contact."

And from IIHF rule 185:
"An attacking skater who makes incidental contact with a goaltender out of his goal crease while both try to gain possession of the puck will not be penalized. If a goal is scored at this time, the goal will count."

Both the referees would have accepted the goal, but the video referee overruled them. (Something they are only allowed to do if they are absolutely sure.)

The US goalie even got a penalty for tripping the player who "interfered" her...

(Besides the elections, the news here today have had a lot about hockey rules...)

And back to politics:

After the Finnish elections, the Social Democrats will have a lot of fun trying to form a government. They'll need to choose either the True Finns, National Coalition or Center Party, and then either another one of those or two smaller parties. It's fun because:
a) Pretty much no one wants to be in the same governm
ent with the True Finns.
b) The National Coalition's agenda is pretty much the exact opposite of SDP's.
c) The Center Party lost huge in the election and they are not too keen to have an other round in the government and risk losing more support.

I expect our next government will have the Social Democrats and the Greens and, either the Center Party and the Left Alliance, or the National Coalition and Swedish People's Party. Either of these combinations would have a small majority of 107 seats out of 200.

It will be interesting to see if they learn anything from what happened in Sweden, or if the Social Democrats will go rightwing and face massive losses for you too.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2019, 02:09:21 pm

It will be rebuilt.

We have the technology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 09:37:09 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2019, 02:09:21 pm

It will be rebuilt. It's OK.

Of course; people are lamenting the destruction of the original, not the obsolescence of its copy-to-be

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 09:44:05 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 09:37:09 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 15, 2019, 02:09:21 pm

It will be rebuilt. It's OK.

Of course; people are lamenting the destruction of the original, not the obsolescence of its copy-to-be

Which original would that be, though? It's been through a number of refurbishings, restorations and even reconstructions over the years. This is going to be a big one, certainly, but she'll be right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 09:49:24 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 09:44:05 am

Which original would that be, though? It's been through a number of refurbishings, restorations and even reconstructions over the years. This is going to be a big one, certainly, but she'll be right.

There has only been one original, unless you have died every second to be replaced by a new Kagus - the argument is full of merit, but not terribly practical when discussing things in the human scale

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 09:58:08 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 09:49:24 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 09:44:05 am

Which original would that be, though? It's been through a number of refurbishings, restorations and even reconstructions over the years. This is going to be a big one, certainly, but she'll be right.

There has only been one original, unless you have died every second to be replaced by a new Kagus - the argument is full of merit, but not terribly practical when discussing things in the human scale

LW, have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) thought experiment? That's what Kagus is talking about philosophically.

I don't think it's had EVERY component replaced, but it's certainly enough to get there philosophically.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:00:51 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 09:49:24 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 09:44:05 am

Which original would that be, though? It's been through a number of refurbishings, restorations and even reconstructions over the years. This is going to be a big one, certainly, but she'll be right.

There has only been one original, unless you have died every second to be replaced by a new Kagus - the argument is full of merit, but not terribly practical when discussing things in the human scale

I am not the man I was 10 years ago, nor am I the boy I was 20 years ago. But they are all the same person.

The spire that fell was the one built in the later 1800's after the one before it had gotten damaged and removed nearly a hundred years prior. But it's the same Notre Dame.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 10:08:53 am

Quote from: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 09:58:08 am

LW, have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) thought experiment? That's what Kagus is talking about philosophically.

I am very familiar, I was taught it as a child, though I learned it with a chariot as the example. Hence why I said the argument is full of merit, because it is true - just not terribly practical in the human scale. We wouldn't be impassive at the death of a relative we lost contact with simply because the entity we lost contact with was not the identical composition of the entity we knew, so it seems excessively daft to argue that there has never been a single entity of the Notre Dame until it went up in flames. I really don't think we're so emotionally dense that we have to add an appendix explaining we mourn the lost continuity of the Notre Dame instead of saying we don't like watching old buildings burn.

Quote from: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 09:58:08 am

I don't think it's had EVERY component replaced, but it's certainly enough to get there philosophically.

Certainly not.

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:00:51 am

I am not the man I was 10 years ago, nor am I the boy I was 20 years ago. But they are all the same person.

This is why it is not terribly useful to apply this philosophy practically; you aren't the same person you were 10 or 20 years go. You are a summation of all you've ever been, but you aren't any one iteration in particular. This information is useful mostly for philosophical purposes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:19:02 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 10:08:53 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:00:51 am

I am not the man I was 10 years ago, nor am I the boy I was 20 years ago. But they are all the same person.

This is why it is not terribly useful to apply this philosophy practically; you aren't the same person you were 10 or 20 years go. You are a summation of all you've ever been, but you aren't any one iteration in particular. This information is useful mostly for philosophical purposes

Then why should we mourn at all? The "former" Notre Dame was never an independent entity to even be destroyed, it was merely a part of the transition to the Notre Dame of today.

She didn't pass into death, but rather added this moment to her history.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 10:41:53 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:19:02 am

Then why should we mourn at all? The "former" Notre Dame was never an independent entity to even be destroyed, it was merely a part of the transition to the Notre Dame of today.

Statements like this are why I lost hope for the future. For starters it is unknown how much damage has been incurred and to how many pieces or parts of the Church have been damaged or lost - the impression is that it has not been totally catastrophic, but I can immediately tell you now if I walked up to the 800 year old stained glass windows and kicked a boot through it I'd not have a leg to stand on in court by telling them I was just helping the windows transition into modernity like an ISIS interior designer.

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:19:02 am

She didn't pass into death, but rather added this moment to her history.

Brb, just going to go commit suicide and add that transition to my history

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:56:37 am

So, you're mourning the original pieces of the structure that may or may not have been the first pieces to serve those roles, but are the originals because they were damaged by this fire and will need to be replaced. Gotcha.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 10:41:53 am

I can immediately tell you now if I walked up to the 800 year old stained glass windows and kicked a boot through it I'd not have a leg to stand on in court by telling them I was just helping the windows transition into modernity like an ISIS interior designer.

Of course you wouldn't; it'd be stuck in the window.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 11:07:15 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:56:37 am

So, you're mourning the original pieces of the structure that may or may not have been the first pieces to serve those roles, but are the originals because they were damaged by this fire and will need to be replaced. Gotcha.

I don't mourn it, I mourn myself, because I am dead

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:56:37 am

Of course you wouldn't; it'd be stuck in the window.

At last you see!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 11:10:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 11:07:15 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:56:37 am

Of course you wouldn't; it'd be stuck in the window.

At last you see!

How Can Stained Glass Windows Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 11:18:33 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 10:41:53 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 10:19:02 am

Then why should we mourn at all? The "former" Notre Dame was never an independent entity to even be destroyed, it was merely a part of the transition to the Notre Dame of today.

Statements like this are why I lost hope for the future. For starters it is unknown how much damage has been incurred and to how many pieces or parts of the Church have been damaged or lost - the impression is that it has not been totally catastrophic, but I can immediately tell you now if I walked up to the 800 year old stained glass windows and kicked a boot through it I'd not have a leg to stand on in court by telling them I was just helping the windows transition into modernity like an ISIS interior designer.

Of course not, it's a philosophical argument, not a legal one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 16, 2019, 11:25:52 am

Quote from: Kagus on April 16, 2019, 11:10:10 am

How Can Stained Glass Windows Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?

Kos, or some say Kosm Smith

Quote from: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 11:18:33 am

Of course not, it's a philosophical argument, not a legal one.

Of course not, all legal arguments are ontological arguments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 16, 2019, 03:14:19 pm

Ontological ontosmogical, when are we going to admit the harsh reality that somewhere in Paris there is a construction worker who has been possessed by the infernal spirit of Robespierre, called forth from the void by this sacrifice?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on April 16, 2019, 03:16:48 pm

He is to do battle with the spirit of Ras-Putin, who has been long awaiting this very moment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 16, 2019, 03:53:33 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on April 16, 2019, 03:14:19 pm

Ontological ontosmogical, when are we going to admit the harsh reality that somewhere in Paris there is a construction worker who has been possessed by the infernal spirit of Robespierre, called forth from the void by this sacrifice?

That all it takes for heroes?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 16, 2019, 09:33:37 pm

So, apparently Macron wants to try and get it rebuilt in five years (https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-draws-parallel-between-notre-dame-and-political-turmoil/), but everything I've heard and read (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47952055) indicates that it's going to be a long delicate proccess that is going to take 10 years to complete because there is a lot of careful work that you have to do.

The roof is likely going to be prioritized for obvious reasons and I could see that getting set up quickly, but even if you poured a HUGE amount of resources into it, it still doesn't change the fact that it's not something that can be slapped together in the same way you can build a skyscraper in five years. I checked and the next French Presidential elections are three years away, so, there may not be political motivation in the sense of upcoming elections, but still.

Speaking of the earlier Ship of Theseus discussion, it's definetly manifesting in a real way here because one of the major questions going to be asked (https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/16/18410806/notre-dame-fire-restoration-history-q-a) is whether or not to go with the 19th century restoration or the earlier one which that restoration replaced. I know it's not strictly the same as the philosophical concept, but the thought of 'what's original?' is in line with it.

Edit: Or design a completely new one for the modern era (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47959313), why not. Im sure it’s going to be a much debated topic in France.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on April 21, 2019, 12:14:11 pm

Meanwhile in Ukraine... Pro-Russian candidate has won presidential elections. Isn't it hilarious? EU should start preparing for a country exploding at its border.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 21, 2019, 03:24:02 pm

Russian? All I’ve heard is that he speaks Russian natively, which in the Ukraine is probably the same as someone speaking Spanish here in the US. Minus the immigration association perhaps and the fact that Ukranian and Russian are more closely related than Spanish and English are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on April 21, 2019, 05:22:25 pm

Stop me if you've heard this one before: a TV star with no concrete political platform or experience, who has a history of expressing affection for the Russian side of things, is elected on a wave of dissatisfaction with the status-quo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 21, 2019, 06:08:26 pm

So, I take it the referendums to join the EU and NATO he offered are a lie?  My apologies, but this is not intended to be fatuitous; I haven't followed the Ukrainian election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 21, 2019, 07:09:48 pm

I barely even know much of anything about Ukraines election myself other than that a comedian/actor is more or less pulling a Trump, they once had a debate at a stadium which they took a drug test beforehand for (what even was up with that? Did it have something to do with the location being a stadium), and Poroshenko debated once at an empty podium. Let alone what was promised or whatever.

An article I read though suggested that he'd still be about as West-friendly as Poroshenko and things wouldn't actually change relations wise towards Russia.

I wonder if Trump would have any political tips for him, heh. Sounds like Trump had way more experience with politics to begin with than Zelenskiy is starting with.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on April 21, 2019, 07:28:17 pm

Quote from: Culise on April 21, 2019, 06:08:26 pm

So, I take it the referendums to join the EU and NATO he offered are a lie?  My apologies, but this is not intended to be fatuitous; I haven't followed the Ukrainian election.

It's true that he said this during his campaign, and whether he meant it is not something anyone but he can answer.
Just to be clear, I did not mean to imply that he's a literal Russian puppet. Still, it's not hard to see how from the Russian perspective it's the preferable choice of the two candidates (much like with Trump).
On the one hand you had an experienced hardliner who had led the nation through an open conflict with their neighbour, and who was all but certain to keep his staunchly anti-Russian politics. On the other hand you have a malleable outsider that's much more likely to make concessions, and whose lack of experience makes him prone to manipulation by the powers already entrenched in the system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 21, 2019, 08:19:08 pm

If he had a personality like Trumps, maybe he could stand a chance, but he doesn’t sound like he might be anything close to Trump personality wise and he seems to be more or less copying other politicians.

As far as Oligarchs go, he already has some ties to one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on April 21, 2019, 09:34:28 pm

Quote from: Culise on April 21, 2019, 06:08:26 pm

So, I take it the referendums to join the EU and NATO he offered are a lie?  My apologies, but this is not intended to be fatuitous; I haven't followed the Ukrainian election.

Referendum to join EU and NATO is quite pointless when you are very far away from membership. Unless you want to block current movement in that direction and make a little brexit like referendum.

As for pro-Russian... It is not about direct ties to Putin or something like that. It is more about values he promotes. For example - https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-lgbt-tv-station-apology-pinocchio-parody-transgender/28959083.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on April 21, 2019, 10:10:58 pm

Make no mistake. Zelensky didn't win because he used pro-Russian rhetoric (openly pro-Russian candidates got 15% combined in the first round). He actually avoided to talk about such things as much as he could.

His campaign was very simple - attack Poroshenko. Talking about how he steals billions, talking about how he doesn't end the war because he profits from it, how he failed to bring "real reforms", how he failed to imprison corrupted politicians and judges, etc. That and calling himself and his team to be "new faces" that aren't linked to the current corrupt system.

His own promises are beyond vague. Nothing except promises to somehow end the war, bring old corrupted politicians to justice and improve economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on April 21, 2019, 10:30:26 pm

Basically, he sounded like a populist to a consistuency hungry (or desperate even) for change to the status quo.

I can't prove it, but the success of Trump (whether he actually succeeds in 'Making America Great Again', history will judge) could have made a complete political neophyte with possibly even less understanding of politics than Trump seem like a good idea and more palpable than it otherwise might have been.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 04, 2019, 11:57:28 am

Quote

“What the voters have been saying is, ‘A plague on both your houses,’” Britain’s leading polling expert, John Curtice, a professor of politics at the University of Strathclyde, told the BBC.

lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/world/europe/uk-local-elections.html)

Quote

Worse is likely to come for Britain’s two big political parties. They must now gear up for elections to the European Parliament on May 23, when two new parties that did not run on Thursday will take part: the Brexit Party, which backs leaving the European Union quickly and without an agreement if necessary; and Change UK, which wants to remain in the bloc.
The Brexit Party, led by Nigel Farage, the former leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party, is being particularly closely watched — recent opinion polls suggest it is tied with Labour for the lead in those elections, or even ahead, and taking much of its support from former Conservative voters.

Noice
Theresa May will make Nigel the Prime Minister

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2019, 03:52:29 pm

Only problem though is that when you look at the results (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48091592), it reads like a mixed/confused message since at least a third up to almost half of the conservative seats flipped to LibDem, a remain party. They definitely want change, but what do they want exactly? To remain? Would be nice to know the breakdown of these ‘other’ parties though.

Sounds like the May 23rd EU election is the closest thing to a second referendum that Britons are going to get anytime in the future. Though I’ve read that EU elections have always been low turnout, lower than national elections oftentimes. So, low turnout for the UK region could muddy any sort of mandate messaging.

It also looks like unionists in general took a hit in NI, but nowhere as dramatic as it did in England. So, no idea how that would affect things there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 04, 2019, 03:58:14 pm

Bretons are French. Mon dieu.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2019, 03:59:40 pm

Yeah you’re right, nvm. I was sort of stream of consciousnessing there or something or other I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 05, 2019, 10:17:45 am

There's nothing French about Bretons. To say there is is to support genocide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 05, 2019, 12:07:39 pm

They have French passports and citizenships.
Unless you mean those from Warhammer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 05, 2019, 12:08:56 pm

Je suis une pomme de terre

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 05, 2019, 12:35:35 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on May 05, 2019, 12:07:39 pm

They have French passports and citizenships.
Unless you mean those from Warhammer.

But those are also French.

No, I think he means the Bretons of High Rock. Those are definitely not French.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 05, 2019, 01:43:29 pm

Quote from: Kagus on May 05, 2019, 12:35:35 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on May 05, 2019, 12:07:39 pm

They have French passports and citizenships.
Unless you mean those from Warhammer.

But those are also French.

No, I think he means the Bretons of High Rock. Those are definitely not French.

Vous etes une vache

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 05, 2019, 01:53:01 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 05, 2019, 01:43:29 pm

Quote from: Kagus on May 05, 2019, 12:35:35 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on May 05, 2019, 12:07:39 pm

They have French passports and citizenships.
Unless you mean those from Warhammer.

But those are also French.

No, I think he means the Bretons of High Rock. Those are definitely not French.

Vous etes une vache

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/rubjb5.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 05, 2019, 11:16:16 pm

Quote from: smjjames on May 04, 2019, 03:52:29 pm

Only problem though is that when you look at the results (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48091592), it reads like a mixed/confused message since at least a third up to almost half of the conservative seats flipped to LibDem, a remain party. They definitely want change, but what do they want exactly? To remain? Would be nice to know the breakdown of these ‘other’ parties though. Sounds like the May 23rd EU election is the closest thing to a second referendum that Britons are going to get anytime in the future. Though I’ve read that EU elections have always been low turnout, lower than national elections oftentimes. So, low turnout for the UK region could muddy any sort of mandate messaging.

Yeah I'll wait until the May 23rd Election before pontificating further. The Brexit Party didn't stand in this election so Tory protest votes could only bleed to independents or to pro-Remain parties, especially with the implosion of UKIP (in a surprise turn of events, UKIP went to war with Nigel Farage, it didn't turn out well for UKIP).

Quote from: smjjames on May 04, 2019, 03:52:29 pm

It also looks like unionists in general took a hit in NI, but nowhere as dramatic as it did in England. So, no idea how that would affect things there.

I'd love to hear Th4DwArfy1 on this 1

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 02:02:57 am

So, Norway's having some squabbles again. The second-in-command of the governing coalition and leader of Norway's hard conservative "Progressive Party" will be turning 50 on June 1st.

There was a small parliament gathering just recently congratulating her on her upcoming birthday, and after the niceties she took the opportunity to give a little political pep-talk...

Wherein she basically said "We stand ready to get out there and stomp on these damn socialists!", which was considered by some people to perhaps be a little bit harsh.

Her response has pretty much been "You had to be there, everyone in attendance knew what I really meant and was fine with it", but that "If some softies out there get offended then sure, I'll apologize and retract my statement".

Of all people, the former head of the mostly-conservative Christian People's Party came out and said "Words have meaning, and we have to be careful with how we use them", and that just because some parties may be politically opposed, everyone in parliament still needs to respect each other and work together in order for anything to work.


In other news, the Progressive Party's shining star of shittery, Sylvi Listhaug, has gotten herself a new ministry position after previously getting disgraced and removed following a vote of no confidence. Sylvi first started really making waves when the current coalition came into power and she was appointed as minister of immigration and integration, at which point she promptly and publicly stated "I have to lock my children indoors at night; there are just too many immigrants out there!", and then she later went on to get fucking ridiculed because she sat in the ocean with an inflatable survival suit on for a few minutes, then compared her experience to the refugees making the water crossing.

The thing that got her the vote of no confidence however was when she posted a meme about how the Labor party is too busy funding terrorists to bother with protecting Norway's citizens. Like and share!

This happened to occur on the same day as the premiere of a film dramatizing the events of July 22nd 2011, when a terrorist shot and killed a bunch of kids in the Labor party youth camp. Some folks felt Sylvi's timing and message were perhaps a bit in poor taste, and she was finally booted after a successful vote. She gave a speech basically saying "I'm sorry that you think what I did was wrong" and in general showed precisely zero recognition that it was maybe a little bit fucked up.

Anyways, yeah... This highly stable and wonderfully poised politician has now been named minister of health and elderly care, because it's not like she can shit on anything important in that department.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 06, 2019, 03:53:05 am

Quote

Quote

It also looks like unionists in general took a hit in NI, but nowhere as dramatic as it did in England. So, no idea how that would affect things there.

I'd love to hear Th4DwArfy1 on this 1

Reducing it to unionist vs. nationalist is a bit reductive. The DUP lost some seats, but increased its first-vote share. Sinn Fein decreased its vote share while the non-terrorist-originating SDLP gained.
Meanwhile, the so-called cross community Alliance party (basically Lib Dems who basically only tend to show up in Belfast) made significant gains, as did independents.
These trends don't conform to typical unionist vs. nationalist patterns, where weakness in the DUP is correlated with a sudden rise in Sinn Fein. I'd argue that the big parties staying mostly static with a bit of fluctuation isn't even necessarily wholly Brexit related. Don't forget that people are becoming increasingly fed up with both sides for not running the devolved government. Talks for which are apparently soon to start, as announced shortly before the election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on May 06, 2019, 08:07:41 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 02:02:57 am

Norway's hard conservative "Progressive Party"

Does Progressive mean something different in Norway?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 09:37:36 am

Quote from: scourge728 on May 06, 2019, 08:07:41 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 02:02:57 am

Norway's hard conservative "Progressive Party"

Does Progressive mean something different in Norway?

Actually? No. We just have some silly party names.

We have a conservative party called "Right", another conservative party called "Left", a third conservative party called "Center", a far-right called "Progressive" (Fremskrittspartiet, literally "The party of making progress". Originally founded as a contrarian party whose sole topic was voting "No" to whatever the leading party said "Yes" to), a green party that should be rainbow-colored for how many clowns it has in it, the Labor Party which is all show and no work, and then we get into the leftist parties with the Socialist Left Party and "Red". There's also the Christian People's Party, which has been undergoing an identity crisis for the past few years based on a split between the conservative members who follow Christian teachings versus the more liberal members who follow Christian ideals.

Then there are minority parties outside of parliament like The Alliance, which as you might have assumed from the name is all about getting Norway to completely cut off all ties to the rest of the world and just isolate itself.

For more fun political naming conventions, go ask Sweden what it means to be a Democrat.


In other news, Sylvi Listhaug's first announcement as the new minister of health and elderly care was "I'm not here to be the morality police; smoke, drink and eat as much red meat as you want". Memories are being racked, but so far nobody can recall asking her to be the morality police. We're off to a good start, in any case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 06, 2019, 10:36:21 am

Yeah, it just means "the Progress Party" or "Progression Party".

Quote from: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 09:37:36 am

For more fun political naming conventions, go ask Sweden what it means to be a Democrat.

Nothing in particular? Lots of our parties have "democrat" in their names.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 06, 2019, 10:45:30 am

Quote from: scriver on May 06, 2019, 10:36:21 am

Yeah, it just means "the Progress Party" or "Progression Party".

Quote from: Kagus on May 06, 2019, 09:37:36 am

For more fun political naming conventions, go ask Sweden what it means to be a Democrat.

Nothing in particular? Lots of our parties have "democrat" in their names.

Which is his point I guess.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 06, 2019, 03:53:05 am

Quote

Quote

It also looks like unionists in general took a hit in NI, but nowhere as dramatic as it did in England. So, no idea how that would affect things there.

I'd love to hear Th4DwArfy1 on this 1

Reducing it to unionist vs. nationalist is a bit reductive. The DUP lost some seats, but increased its first-vote share. Sinn Fein decreased its vote share while the non-terrorist-originating SDLP gained.
Meanwhile, the so-called cross community Alliance party (basically Lib Dems who basically only tend to show up in Belfast) made significant gains, as did independents.
These trends don't conform to typical unionist vs. nationalist patterns, where weakness in the DUP is correlated with a sudden rise in Sinn Fein. I'd argue that the big parties staying mostly static with a bit of fluctuation isn't even necessarily wholly Brexit related. Don't forget that people are becoming increasingly fed up with both sides for not running the devolved government. Talks for which are apparently soon to start, as announced shortly before the election.

Good point on it being a bit reductive, but that’s just due to my lack of knowledge on it. I’ve also read that some interpreted it as people being tired of the them-vs-us politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 07, 2019, 10:25:35 am

Quote from: Halaratha on May 07, 2019, 07:56:35 am

*The scene opens on a field. Blue skies. Theresa May is dressed in shorts and a cute shirt*

Kids: "Theresa Resign!"

Dora the explorer/Theresa May: "I can't hear youuuu." *cups hand to ear*

boris no swiping

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2019, 02:08:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 07, 2019, 10:25:35 am

Quote from: Halaratha on May 07, 2019, 07:56:35 am

*The scene opens on a field. Blue skies. Theresa May is dressed in shorts and a cute shirt*

Kids: "Theresa Resign!"

Dora the explorer/Theresa May: "I can't hear youuuu." *cups hand to ear*

boris no swiping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQeS1Rzs6MM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 09, 2019, 02:54:13 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2019, 02:08:49 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQeS1Rzs6MM

Thank you so much for this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: SaberToothTiger on May 16, 2019, 06:24:13 pm

Meanwhile, a documentary about pedophilia in the Catholic Church has made quite a stir in Poland. The documentary is called "Tylko nie mów nikomu", which roughly means "Don't tell anyone". There are subtitles in English available. Link below, be warned it may not be for the faint of heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrUvQ3W3nV4)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on May 16, 2019, 11:49:32 pm

I don't know why people are so "shock and awe" over pedophile priests.  Pederasty in the church has been **DOCUMENTED** by the vatican since at least the middle ages, and has been an endemic problem since forever.

What, do you think a culture of concealment cropped up overnight or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 17, 2019, 12:56:26 am

Because things can be both common and the subject of intense dislike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 17, 2019, 01:24:17 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on May 17, 2019, 12:56:26 am

Because things can be both common and the subject of intense dislike.

Like salty licorice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 17, 2019, 01:36:41 am

Quote from: wierd on May 16, 2019, 11:49:32 pm

I don't know why people are so "shock and awe" over pedophile priests.  Pederasty in the church has been **DOCUMENTED** by the vatican since at least the middle ages, and has been an endemic problem since forever.

What, do you think a culture of concealment cropped up overnight or something?

Being well-documented isn't the same as being well-known; what's more, much of the recent scandals the past few decades hasn't just been about pedophilia in the Church, it was also about how much the Vatican knew about this & covered it up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 17, 2019, 01:40:17 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 17, 2019, 01:24:17 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on May 17, 2019, 12:56:26 am

Because things can be both common and the subject of intense dislike.

Like salty licorice.

This is how you get Finland and Sweden to dig a ditch around your border :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 17, 2019, 02:34:03 am

Quote from: scriver on May 17, 2019, 01:40:17 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 17, 2019, 01:24:17 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on May 17, 2019, 12:56:26 am

Because things can be both common and the subject of intense dislike.

Like salty licorice.

This is how you get Finland and Sweden to dig a ditch around your border :P

No, a moat, filled with salmiakki vodka. You will love it or you will drown in it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on May 17, 2019, 08:17:35 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 17, 2019, 01:24:17 am

Like salty licorice.

Better or worse than the stuff that tastes like anis?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 17, 2019, 08:33:15 am

Quote from: Iduno on May 17, 2019, 08:17:35 am

Quote from: Kagus on May 17, 2019, 01:24:17 am

Like salty licorice.

Better or worse than the stuff that tastes like anis?

I think the sweetener in anis and licorice is the same.

Btw licorice really fucks up several things im your body. I love it but avoid it foe same reason.  Its unhealthy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 18, 2019, 10:13:12 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 17, 2019, 08:33:15 am

Its unhealthy

Wars have been started for less.

In other news, shit is going down in Austria. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48320983)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 18, 2019, 10:23:43 am

Quote from: da_nang on May 18, 2019, 10:13:12 am

In other news, shit is going down in Austria. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48320983)

Seems fairer to say shit is being flushed down the loo, lol what a wanker he was

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 18, 2019, 10:30:34 am

Sounds like shit is also hitting the fan (https://www.politico.eu/article/austrian-vice-chancellor-resigns/) as well. At least for the PM and possibly the Austrian Parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 18, 2019, 10:36:13 am

oh wow, the fascists were corrupt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 18, 2019, 10:51:27 am

tfw it was the russians too

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on May 23, 2019, 09:55:30 am

ay lads im back

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 23, 2019, 08:32:43 pm

That'd likely go quite a ways towards explaining why the turnout rates for EU elections are so low.

Anyhow, Theresa May is on her way out. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/theresa-may-hold-talks-ministers-attempt-prolong-exit) I saw something about Boris Johnson being favored, but it could go anywhere I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 24, 2019, 04:19:03 am

Oh, I suspect turnouts will be high enough in the UK

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 24, 2019, 07:05:09 am

Except among EU citizens, ‘cause the government decided that waiting so long before announcing the UK was taking part, meaning the requisite forms couldn’t be filled out and processed in time, wasn’t their fault ‘cause they have nothing to do with administering elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 24, 2019, 07:43:06 am

Blame Mayday

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 25, 2019, 07:20:43 am

Demographics (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48395211) of the people electing the next PM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2019, 08:59:04 pm

Quote from: hector13 on May 25, 2019, 07:20:43 am

Demographics (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48395211) of the people electing the next PM.

Huh, UKIP is to the left of conservatives, I could have sworn that they were to the right of the conservatives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 26, 2019, 11:14:50 am

Quote from: smjjames on May 25, 2019, 08:59:04 pm

Huh, UKIP is to the left of conservatives, I could have sworn that they were to the right of the conservatives.

It's measuring how party members of those parties self-describe themselves on a scale of 1-10. 2017 UKIP voters being an amalgamation of left and right-wing voters likely lowers their mean average compared to the Conservative party, which is largely split between the Conservatives and the Neoliberals, both of which are right wing factions

*EDIT

Quote

In short, the grassroots aren't simply sceptical on Europe; they can't wait to leave, whatever that might take.

This, then, is the Conservative Party electorate.

ayyy lmao let's go

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 26, 2019, 02:17:43 pm

European parliamentary elections, yay!

Finnish Pirate Party gets about 0.7% from 85% counted votes. No seats out of thirteen. Guess I'm part of the unelected 0.7 percenters. Finland uses d'Hondt, so you practically need ~4.8% to even stand a chance against the 8 mainstream parties. I wrote a little approximate program in GAMS to find that out. Swedish People's Party retains their seat. Better than nothing, I guess.

Still waiting to hear from Sweden.

German Pirate Party gets about 0.8% and keeps their seat. Not sure how many votes have been counted. Status quo, woohoo. Disappointing, really.

Czech Republic sees a surge of Pirates, 15.38% and gets four seats. Second biggest party in the country! Some good news, at least.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Trolldefender99 on May 26, 2019, 02:34:53 pm

Being in NA/US and not knowing who the parties are anywhere else in the world...

What is the pirate party? And how is things looking overall for the democratic/left parties? I imagine it may still be too early to know, but is it looking good early on?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on May 26, 2019, 02:43:45 pm

In general, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_party#Common_policies) they are parties based around freedom of data on the internet pretty much, copyright and patent reform is also a major part of the idea behind them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 26, 2019, 02:45:58 pm

Quote from: Trolldefender99 on May 26, 2019, 02:34:53 pm

What is the pirate party?

As opposed to mainstream politicians like:

Quote

Rep. Shannon McCoy (R)

You get experts on current events, like:

Quote

Rep. Bellow-Faced Jim (Arrrh)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 26, 2019, 03:45:39 pm

Quote from: Trolldefender99 on May 26, 2019, 02:34:53 pm

What is the pirate party?

They advocate pillage and plunder, mostly. Also establishing a constitution based in the Pirate Code as formulated by Captain Bartholomew Roberts

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on May 26, 2019, 05:12:42 pm

So basically a party that satirises the system to draw attention to their political points?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 26, 2019, 05:21:25 pm

No. I made that shit up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on May 26, 2019, 07:53:33 pm

Fair enough. Assumed they might be something along the Monster Raving Loony Party kind of lines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 27, 2019, 07:23:58 am

No Pirates from Sweden. Disappointing.  :-\

Guess I have to turn to the Czechs the next five years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 27, 2019, 07:54:50 am

Quote from: Trolldefender99 on May 26, 2019, 02:34:53 pm

And how is things looking overall for the democratic/left parties?

As I heard it summed up in the news, not having looked much beyond that myself: Left wing takes a huge hit and goes back all over Europe. Big winners are nationalist and greens.

In Sweden the left wing stood mostly still, a few percentages up and down but no change in mandates.. The nationalistic Sweden Democrats gained the most percentage-wise but only one mandage, and the traditional right wing parties shuffled their percentages around a little, gaining one mandate each except for (Folkpartiet) Liberalerna (In English: (the People's Party) the Liberals - they recently shortened their name to just the latter and made their symbol a huge dick), nearly got bumped out. Theirs was probably the biggest loss in relation to how established they are, but they only lost one mandate. All in all the traditional right wing gained (+3-1=) +2 mandates.

Other big Swedish losers where Miljöpartiet (The Environment Party), who pathetically tried to pass their 4% fall off as a win because it wasn't as big of a defeat as pre-election surveys showed they might face (and while 4% might not sound like much, it effectively means 50% of their mandates), and Feministisk Initiativ (Feministic Iniative) who lost nearly all their percentages, taking them down from 5% to 0.8 and bumping them out of the readings.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 27, 2019, 08:36:26 am

The Greens probably had the biggest win in Finland. I judge this based on the overwhelming euphoria of a dozen Green representatives and MEPs who ended up celebrating literally right in front of me in the middle of a ten-thousand people crowd in central Helsinki last night. We kinda won a historic ice hockey world championship, so one of them kept screaming 'DOUBLE VICTORY' in my face. Bold new political strategy, but it gets my vote. They did block my view of people rowing an inflatable boat in a fountain while half-naked at +7 degrees, but I'll give them that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 27, 2019, 08:55:04 am

So, Norway supplies housing support payments on a month-by-month appeal basis for households that can't manage to make ends meet that month.

Several thousand Somali immigrants in the capital rely on housing support payments in order to cover their rent expenses.


Norway's far-right Progressive party (...) proposes that there's an opportunity here to tighten the public belt, so to speak, on the large amount of money being spent on such payments. Clearly what we need to do is cut housing support for Muslims; because Muslims have religious objections to taking out loans that accrue interest, and if they'd just get some loans then they could buy their own property instead of having to rent and therefore have... lower monthly costs and... not be reliant on housing support payments?

I don't really know how to explain the situation in a clearer fashion, because honestly I'm still trying to figure out what the actual fuck. This is some very advanced logic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 27, 2019, 11:42:36 am

Lmao how did I not notice E-celebs getting involved in are politics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUP3zJcRwG0)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 31, 2019, 06:16:56 am

So, my area in Norway has recently had a pretty heated debate for a while about a planned toll network being set up across the city. Yes, as in making all inner-city streets into toll roads (which would, in the predicted practice, mean that if you drove your car to work and then back each day, you'd be spending approximately $250 every month on tolls. That's without factoring in shopping trips, or any other usages of the car outside of the 1-hour slot where you drive to work and the 1-hour slot where you drive home). Lots of people got pretty upset about the idea, especially every single food place that delivers.

As is appropriate in such times, a new political party rose from the rabble and dubbed themselves the "No to Toll Network Party", and they've been working hard ever since to get their spot so they can put a stop to this madness!


...except that the current majority parties have already seen the outcry, and (amid a lot of partisan squabbling) nixed the toll network plan.

The "No to Toll Network Party" is now trying to convince people that "just because the deal we were created to oppose no longer exists, doesn't mean that there's no reason to vote for us anymore!", and they're still trying to get their seats on the council.


Also the bus transit is threatening to explode into pieces because it's not getting the multi-million-dollar payoff it was expecting to have earmarked from the toll money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 31, 2019, 08:31:59 am

Sounds like the Norwegian city planners played Cities: Skylines.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 31, 2019, 09:20:41 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on May 31, 2019, 08:31:59 am

Sounds like the Norwegian city planners played Cities: Skylines.

It is inevitable, given their proximity to Swedish DLC cartels

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 31, 2019, 11:25:09 am

City: Skyline is Finnish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 31, 2019, 11:29:28 am

Quote from: scriver on May 31, 2019, 11:25:09 am

City: Skyline is Finnish

Finland is Swedish DLC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 31, 2019, 03:31:00 pm

Finland is just made up so the Japanese can flout fishing rules.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Pwnzerfaust on May 31, 2019, 08:24:25 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 27, 2019, 07:54:50 am

Quote from: Trolldefender99 on May 26, 2019, 02:34:53 pm

And how is things looking overall for the democratic/left parties?

As I heard it summed up in the news, not having looked much beyond that myself: Left wing takes a huge hit and goes back all over Europe. Big winners are nationalist and greens.

In Sweden the left wing stood mostly still, a few percentages up and down but no change in mandates.. The nationalistic Sweden Democrats gained the most percentage-wise but only one mandage, and the traditional right wing parties shuffled their percentages around a little, gaining one mandate each except for (Folkpartiet) Liberalerna (In English: (the People's Party) the Liberals - they recently shortened their name to just the latter and made their symbol a huge dick), nearly got bumped out. Theirs was probably the biggest loss in relation to how established they are, but they only lost one mandate. All in all the traditional right wing gained (+3-1=) +2 mandates.

Other big Swedish losers where Miljöpartiet (The Environment Party), who pathetically tried to pass their 4% fall off as a win because it wasn't as big of a defeat as pre-election surveys showed they might face (and while 4% might not sound like much, it effectively means 50% of their mandates), and Feministisk Initiativ (Feministic Iniative) who lost nearly all their percentages, taking them down from 5% to 0.8 and bumping them out of the readings.

Happy to see SD is doing well, still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 01, 2019, 02:40:51 am

There's a political convention coming in August up where a bunch of political parties will put up stands and have speeches and basically just try to puff themselves up and get some more voters.

Two minority parties were trying to get stands set up, and they'd received initial confirmation that they'd be allowed to do so, but some of the majority party leaders balked at having to share a convention center with these loons and said that they'd boycott the whole affair if they were allowed to present themselves alongside everyone else. So the stands got repealed.

The two parties in question were The Alliance (who have no intentions of allying with anyone, ever), and SIAN (an acronym, for "Stop the Islamification Of Norway").


To give you an idea of what the political mettle of these parties is like, the leader of The Alliance has previously taken to labeling the Holocaust "A propaganda maneuver", and has spoken out about this goddamn liberal-progressive (((modern science))) and (((studies show that))), and how these people are just lost causes that can't be argued out of their fake meta-narratives.

SIAN, meanwhile, riled up a social media outrage about empty bus seats.

Spoiler: The wheels on the bus go Allahu akbar (click to show/hide)

(https://ap.mnocdn.no/images/86799ac4-71fc-4783-b95d-250f3c276e7b?fit=crop&h=810&q=80&w=1440)

Yes, they thought that picture was of... Something else. And they were fucking angry about it.

The Alliance was allowed to attend this convention last year, and I guess people have decided that they didn't want a repeat of him ranting about how stealthy Ninjews have infiltrated all levels of society in order to secretly advance the kosher agenda. SIAN just... Fuck, dude, SIAN is really just that dumb.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 01, 2019, 08:45:40 pm

The fabled Ninjewtsu. Where can I learn this power?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 02, 2019, 02:26:15 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 01, 2019, 08:45:40 pm

The fabled Ninjewtsu. Where can I learn this power?

Not from a jedi

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 12:48:50 am

I thought only the King/Queen could suspend Parliament like that? Though obviously, since the British civil war, it’s probably not solely under the jurdicision of the monarchy anymore.

I don’t think the US Congress has that ability. I mean, they do have their scheduled breaks, but if they actually had the ability to shut down Congress in the way I’m imagining the Parliamentary proroguing works, I bet the Republicans would have tried to do it during Obama’s term.

Then again, it’s only the British who seem to think doing this is a viable idea, despite the possibility of critical work that’d need to be done that wouldn’t get done if it were shut down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 07, 2019, 01:03:44 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 12:48:50 am

I thought only the King/Queen could suspend Parliament like that?

Dom's a bit of a queen though, innit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 01:07:05 am

Quote from: Kagus on June 07, 2019, 01:03:44 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 12:48:50 am

I thought only the King/Queen could suspend Parliament like that?

Dom's a bit of a drama queen though, innit?

FIFY :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vattic on June 08, 2019, 12:02:55 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 12:48:50 am

I thought only the King/Queen could suspend Parliament like that? Though obviously, since the British civil war, it’s probably not solely under the jurdicision of the monarchy anymore.

Technically she suspends it under the advise of her privy council. Really though the PM decides when the current session is finished (not that the Brexit legislation this session was started for is done). It would be a tricky situation as the Queen is meant to be publicly apolitical and this decision would be anything but. The bloke has proven himself pretty clueless (Dover is important?) so perhaps a repeat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 08, 2019, 12:09:45 am

Quote from: Vattic on June 08, 2019, 12:02:55 am

Quote from: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 12:48:50 am

I thought only the King/Queen could suspend Parliament like that? Though obviously, since the British civil war, it’s probably not solely under the jurdicision of the monarchy anymore.

Technically she suspends it under the advise of her privy council. Really though the PM decides when the current session is finished (not that the Brexit legislation this session was started for is done). It would be a tricky situation as the Queen is meant to be publicly apolitical and this decision would be anything but. The bloke has proven himself pretty clueless (Dover is important?) so perhaps a repeat.

A repeat of what? Anyhow, I suspect that she has faced plenty of politically tricky situations and knows how to deal with them. If it came to it, she'd certainly be dealing with it in a discreet way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vattic on June 08, 2019, 10:58:00 am

A repeat of him demonstrating his ignorance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 17, 2019, 09:16:41 am

Just a thought, maybe the UK should make Sajid Javid PM just to give a massive middle finger up Trumps arse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 17, 2019, 09:34:13 am

Yea, and commit political Sudoku at the same time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 17, 2019, 09:41:18 am

Sudoku? Is that an intentional typo? I tried to see if autocorrect tried to change it and it didn't. Anyhow, was just a thought, looks like Britain will have a no-deal Brexit crash through no matter who becomes PM. Theres no guarantee that a new PM will be able to negotiate any better because the negotiation conditions aren't going to change, and time is extremely limited compared to two years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 17, 2019, 09:47:08 am

Tbf, a different PM might actually propose a deal which the UK could actually stomach. Getting the EU to stomach it too would be the key, but these things require compromise - which was not at the heart of May's surrender treaty.

And yes, intentional typo. It's a oft-used corruption of seppuku.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 17, 2019, 10:00:32 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, the issue of the NI-RoI border is pretty much the last thing that needs to be figured out before a deal can be inked, right? Well, the problem is that it seems like what the EU can stomach and what Britain can stomach don't even overlap here. The EU hasn't and isn't going to change it's position and whoever becomes PM is going to face the same political pressures as Theresa May did. It's just hard for me to see any compromise happening when Parliament has rejected just about every possible compromise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 17, 2019, 10:48:14 am

In which case I guess we'll have to deliver on the referendum in the only way remaining - No Deal.

It will be interesting to see how many hard lines are blurred as that becomes more likely.

As for the NI/ROI border, it's really struck me as something of a non-issue. And I live near it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 17, 2019, 11:31:41 am

git fucking hype let's goooooooooooooo already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 17, 2019, 12:44:25 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 17, 2019, 10:48:14 am

In which case I guess we'll have to deliver on the referendum in the only way remaining - No Deal.

It will be interesting to see how many hard lines are blurred as that becomes more likely.

As for the NI/ROI border, it's really struck me as something of a non-issue. And I live near it.

You're not a dissident Republican getting upset about the British shitting things up again, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on June 17, 2019, 02:52:21 pm

To be fair to them, the British seem to have a habit of messing things up for the Irish :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 17, 2019, 06:56:05 pm

Quote from: hector13 on June 17, 2019, 12:44:25 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 17, 2019, 10:48:14 am

In which case I guess we'll have to deliver on the referendum in the only way remaining - No Deal.

It will be interesting to see how many hard lines are blurred as that becomes more likely.

As for the NI/ROI border, it's really struck me as something of a non-issue. And I live near it.

You're not a dissident Republican getting upset about the British shitting things up again, though.

"Dissident republican," hah. Someone swallowed the PC dictionary.

The word you are looking for is "terrorist." A spade's a spade.

And whether they are peeved is immaterial. Any time a political decision pertaining to Northern Ireland crops up, the spectre of the violent and unstable Ulsterman is conjured up alongside it. The same argument was put forward - the extremists will love it! - when Home Rule was being debated. Screw the terrorists up, down and sideways. They will not decide the political future of my country.

And I think you will find that to be a popular opinion.

Quote

Getting upset about the British shitting things up again

Oh, don't worry. We are more than capable of doing that on our own. The rest of the UK need not be concerned on that front.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 18, 2019, 08:53:12 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 17, 2019, 06:56:05 pm

The same argument was put forward - the extremists will love it! - when Home Rule was being debated. Screw the terrorists up, down and sideways. They will not decide the political future of my country.

And I think you will find that to be a popular opinion.

They will, though. That's why politicians love to do stupid shit that will cause more terrorists. Terrorists are a great boogeyman that allows them to do what the hell the want, and politicians are generally isolated from them. Politicians will shut down any arguments about their plans with "but terrorists" and people will eat that shit up even though they know they're getting fucked. So terrorists hurt citizens living under shitty rulers because they can't get to the rulers, then the rulers take advantage of the attacks to make things even worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on June 18, 2019, 10:43:55 am

So what you're saying is, if we want to stop terrorism, we need to escort the terrorists to the politicians and let them kill them until the politicians stop being stupid? (Note to the NSA: This is a joke)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 18, 2019, 11:51:31 am

Quote from: scourge728 on June 18, 2019, 10:43:55 am

So what you're saying is, if we want to stop terrorism, we need to escort the terrorists to the politicians and let them kill them until the politicians stop being stupid? (Note to the NSA: This is a joke)

Terrorists and the alleged Politicians should fight cage matches in order to sort out their differences.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 12:20:50 pm

Norway has finalized the changes to restrict access to selective reduction procedures in multiple pregnancies. If a mother has two or more fetuses and wishes to abort one while carrying the other to term, she will now need to appeal to a council in order to have her request evaluated and granted/denied. The council will still only be evaluating cases that are within the limits previously allowed for at-will reductions, and pregnancies that have advanced beyond that time limit will not be considered.

The Christian People's Party, the impetus behind this change, was however not granted all the changes they wanted to make to Norwegian abortion law. It's still legal for late-term pregnancies to be aborted in the case of severe medical complications in the fetus.


This is the first time the Norwegian abortion law has been restricted in 40 years.


Meanwhile, Politicians from the Christian and Conservative parties are assuring everyone that "No no, this isn't opening the way for further restrictions on abortion freedoms or anything. Perish the thought". Surprisingly, few people are taking them at their word.

After the decision was voted on and finalized, the Prime Minister said that they were "Still open to hearing opinions on whether or not they should do it". Considering it's already been done, nobody's really sure what that statement was supposed to mean.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 12:51:19 pm

If both babies are healthy, that's a severe moral ethics quandary, wouldn't want to be the doctor that has to decide in that case. One could perhaps leave it up to the Random Number Gods (or just God, as in the Christian one), but that's a whole other slice of ethical quandary hell. Obviously the anti-abortion position would be to keep both (or more, if that's the case), but if the woman gets to the point of asking that sort of question, you have to consider why they are making the decision.

I probably wouldn't leave it up to a council, unless maybe the gender balance is equal, but I still don't really like the idea of a council. Obviously there needs to be a filter for stuff like aborting just because of gender....

I suppose the PM was referring to the ethical quandary hell that still remains.

edit: Though really, if the woman can still carry to term, what about putting up for adoption? I know that's a whole other (again) slice of morality though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 18, 2019, 01:07:35 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on June 18, 2019, 10:43:55 am

So what you're saying is, if we want to stop terrorism, we need to escort the terrorists to the politicians and let them kill them until the politicians stop being stupid? (Note to the NSA: This is a joke)

I mean, it couldn't hurt...me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 18, 2019, 01:34:28 pm

Quote from: Iduno on June 18, 2019, 08:53:12 am

They will, though. That's why politicians love to do stupid shit that will cause more terrorists. Terrorists are a great boogeyman that allows them to do what the hell the want, and politicians are generally isolated from them. Politicians will shut down any arguments about their plans with "but terrorists" and people will eat that shit up even though they know they're getting fucked. So terrorists hurt citizens living under shitty rulers because they can't get to the rulers, then the rulers take advantage of the attacks to make things even worse.

Eh nah. You have terrorists who selects soft targets like London Bridge or Borough market but most of the terrorism in the UK prior to Jihadi Johns targeted leaders & their support with prejudice. Mountbatten & his family, Margaret Thatcher and the Tory conference bomb, Ulster Union Party assassinations & any number of the bombings on legal officials, civil servants or security forces and their family would very easily disagree. There have been about half a dozen attacks that tried to get into Houses of Parliament last year resulting in the deaths of civilians and security personnel, though that was from jihadists and not troubles related, while the last time a British politician was assassinated was in 2016, by a far-right assassin.

Crudely simplifying what is an intricate and complicated mess into "politicians bad, make bad man explode more make more bad man" isn't terribly helpful for understanding anything, especially when the first goal of most of our terror groups is to disrupt civil administration of the government. Attacks on aforementioned civil administration is the most direct way of achieving that. Terrorists of the organised kind have their own ambitions; you cannot attribute clueless politicians as being the root of all sin, there's plenty of sin to go around for everyone to be guilty.

In happier, and also surprisingly related news, the Norwegian crew of the ship struck by torpedoes/mines/unidentified unquantified motiveless munitions have safely reached Dubai (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-attacks-frontline/blast-hit-norwegian-tankers-crew-land-in-dubai-idUSKCN1TG0KQ). Should be interesting to hear what they have to report. Perhaps we can complete the terror bingo with state terrorism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 01:38:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 18, 2019, 01:34:28 pm

In happier, and also surprisingly related news, the Norwegian crew of the ship struck by torpedoes/mines/unidentified unquantified motiveless munitions have safely reached Dubai (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-attacks-frontline/blast-hit-norwegian-tankers-crew-land-in-dubai-idUSKCN1TG0KQ). Should be interesting to hear what they have to report. Perhaps we can complete the terror bingo with state terrorism

I wonder why the Norwegian crew hasn't said anything yet, the captian of the Japanese ship was able to say what he said relatively quickly. I suppose there might be some company policy behind it or someone needed them to not speak publicly so soon (which generally makes sense in an investigation, even one with this much intrigue surrounding it)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 18, 2019, 02:07:14 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 12:51:19 pm

If both babies are healthy, that's a severe moral ethics quandary, wouldn't want to be the doctor that has to decide in that case. One could perhaps leave it up to the Random Number Gods (or just God, as in the Christian one), but that's a whole other slice of ethical quandary hell. Obviously the anti-abortion position would be to keep both (or more, if that's the case), but if the woman gets to the point of asking that sort of question, you have to consider why they are making the decision.

I probably wouldn't leave it up to a council, unless maybe the gender balance is equal, but I still don't really like the idea of a council. Obviously there needs to be a filter for stuff like aborting just because of gender....

I suppose the PM was referring to the ethical quandary hell that still remains.

🙄 I honestly dont see it as a severe ethical quandary. I guess I might think different if I was of the "embryo=human being" persuasion.

Btw I think you misunderstood the reason for the procedure. Selective abortion like that is normally done in cases of multiple pregnancies  because its not certain the pregnancy will be safe.

Which, btw, I find that many of these supposed moral quandaries are not real in the first place, because things are stretched to the point of things being a no brainer. A classical one in my field, for instance: a pregnant woman with APML. Often a supposed "ethical quandary: because APML is treated with ATRA which is teratogenic. Only... either the fetus is past the stage where it would be teratogenic, or there is a snowball chance in hell for the patient to survive long enough to give birth. So the default answer should be to go ahead with ATRA.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 02:32:29 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 01:38:50 pm

I wonder why the Norwegian crew hasn't said anything yet

We don't like to cause a fuss, generally...

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 18, 2019, 02:07:14 pm

Btw I think you misunderstood the reason for the procedure. Selective abortion like that is normally done in cases of multiple pregnancies  because its not certain the pregnancy will be safe.

There's also the matter of the economical and emotional capacities of the parents to provide a decent life for that many kids, preferably without completely bankrupting themselves (again, economically or emotionally). So now we get cases of a couple saying "We would like to have a child", and then finding out that oh no, you're gonna need fertility treatment if you want that to happen, and then they get the treatment and it's twins. They don't have the space, the money, or the time to take care of two kids, so they try to get the procedure done to abort one of the twins and just have the one kid they bargained for. Now the council comes in and says "Nope. You're physically capable of bearing two children, therefore you're going to bear two children".

(To put things a bit more on the nose, a Christian People's Party spokesman made waves when he publicly announced his position on the matter as "If you can give birth to one kid, you can give birth to two"... Which is a delightfully respectful and also very medically accurate comment to make)


The real kicker? Because of the scope of this law change, straight abortion is still legally the choice of the mother. Which means that if the council rejects a case, they're giving her the choice between two children or no children... But she's not allowed to have just the one.



And yeah, no, I guess I'm another one of those horribly thoughtless and emotionless people who feels that abortion or fetal reduction isn't a massive ethical problem. At least no greater of an issue than the idea of raising a child in an unfit home or putting them up for adoption in an already poorly-managed and overloaded system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 18, 2019, 02:55:26 pm

Quote from: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 02:32:29 pm

There's also the matter of the economical and emotional capacities of the parents to provide a decent life for that many kids, preferably without completely bankrupting themselves (again, economically or emotionally). So now we get cases of a couple saying "We would like to have a child", and then finding out that oh no, you're gonna need fertility treatment if you want that to happen, and then they get the treatment and it's twins. They don't have the space, the money, or the time to take care of two kids, so they try to get the procedure done to abort one of the twins and just have the one kid they bargained for. Now the council comes in and says "Nope. You're physically capable of bearing two children, therefore you're going to bear two children".

(To put things a bit more on the nose, a Christian People's Party spokesman made waves when he publicly announced his position on the matter as "If you can give birth to one kid, you can give birth to two"... Which is a delightfully respectful and also very medically accurate comment to make)

The real kicker? Because of the scope of this law change, straight abortion is still legally the choice of the mother. Which means that if the council rejects a case, they're giving her the choice between two children or no children... But she's not allowed to have just the one.

And yeah, no, I guess I'm another one of those horribly thoughtless and emotionless people who feels that abortion or fetal reduction isn't a massive ethical problem. At least no greater of an issue than the idea of raising a child in an unfit home or putting them up for adoption in an already poorly-managed and overloaded system.

I'm shocked. The religious telling people they must have children, and also feel it should suck trying to raise children while being poor, because fuck you for being poor?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 03:28:43 pm

To be fair to KrF (the Christian People's Party), they have actually been campaigning quite a bit for more and better kindergarten offers, and for better maternity/paternity (yes! It's a thing in Norway!) leave...

But then again, KrF has been going through a bit of an identity crisis lately between the conservative crowd being old religious people and the progressive crowd trying to uphold actual Christian values. There was a whole big party meeting to discuss the future of the party.

The conservatives won, if you're curious!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2019, 04:10:10 pm

Quote from: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 03:28:43 pm

But then again, KrF has been going through a bit of an identity crisis lately between the conservative crowd being old religious people and the progressive crowd trying to uphold actual Christian values.

If it's anything like the situation in Sweden I think you might be misassuming things here. If anything it tends to be the old people who still carry a candle for the old Christian social progressism that used to pervade Christian movements, while the younger members are thoroughly ideologised to the American 80's extremely conservative right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 04:18:02 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 18, 2019, 02:07:14 pm

Quote from: smjjames on June 18, 2019, 12:51:19 pm

If both babies are healthy, that's a severe moral ethics quandary, wouldn't want to be the doctor that has to decide in that case. One could perhaps leave it up to the Random Number Gods (or just God, as in the Christian one), but that's a whole other slice of ethical quandary hell. Obviously the anti-abortion position would be to keep both (or more, if that's the case), but if the woman gets to the point of asking that sort of question, you have to consider why they are making the decision.

I probably wouldn't leave it up to a council, unless maybe the gender balance is equal, but I still don't really like the idea of a council. Obviously there needs to be a filter for stuff like aborting just because of gender....

I suppose the PM was referring to the ethical quandary hell that still remains.

I honestly dont see it as a severe ethical quandary. I guess I might think different if I was of the "embryo=human being" persuasion.

Btw I think you misunderstood the reason for the procedure. Selective abortion like that is normally done in cases of multiple pregnancies  because its not certain the pregnancy will be safe.

Which, btw, I find that many of these supposed moral quandaries are not real in the first place, because things are stretched to the point of things being a no brainer. A classical one in my field, for instance: a pregnant woman with APML. Often a supposed "ethical quandary: because APML is treated with ATRA which is teratogenic. Only... either the fetus is past the stage where it would be teratogenic, or there is a snowball chance in hell for the patient to survive long enough to give birth. So the default answer should be to go ahead with ATRA.

Yeah actually, I think I did since I didn't really have the full context and at-will made me think it included cases where the womans life wasn't at risk.

Quote from: scriver on June 18, 2019, 04:10:10 pm

Quote from: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 03:28:43 pm

But then again, KrF has been going through a bit of an identity crisis lately between the conservative crowd being old religious people and the progressive crowd trying to uphold actual Christian values.

If it's anything like the situation in Sweden I think you might be misassuming things here. If anything it tends to be the old people who still carry a candle for the old Christian social progressism that used to pervade Christian movements, while the younger members are thoroughly ideologised to the American 80's extremely conservative right.

80's? More like right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2019, 04:53:45 pm

80's because that's when it grew prominent

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 18, 2019, 04:58:52 pm

Nope. It's mostly the younger crowd in KrF that are progressives, and trying to reconcile their good Christian beliefs with a modern inclusive society. A lot of loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek.

Meanwhile the established Lutheran farmers are angry that youngsters nowadays are trying to do things differently from how things were done in the old days, and they don't want anyone growing up without the important trauma and repression that shaped them in their formative years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 20, 2019, 03:24:18 pm

Well, we do know that they were shooting at a drone (whether the same type or not, no idea) the same day the explosions happened on the tanker ships, so, it might have only been a matter of time.

I don't think the escalation is that fast, tensions have been high for quite some time and it could be just them trying to flex their muscles without escalating TOO far.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on June 20, 2019, 07:34:27 pm

Yes, I believe the feeling the majority of us are getting is that the US provoked the attack, as shown by previous posts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 20, 2019, 08:16:55 pm

It does remind me a lot of when Turkey shot down a Russian jet for repeatedly crossing what was essentially a finger of Turkish territory sticking into Syrian territory (and Russia was all 'Want to do that again?', though things de-escalated FAST from there despite Russian posturing). However, things are a lot less clear here because nobody is really showing definite proof like radar images that show the craft crossing said territory. So, I'm not so sure about the US provoking it here as there'd need to be proof of it intentionally provoking like Russia 'cutting corners' with Turkish territory.

Iran has said that they plan on taking it to the UN where they'll show proof or something, maybe they're just more confident in displaying their proof in that audience rather than right now. UAE and Omani radars should definetly be able to see the area, so, there would be third party (if not exactly neutral third party) confirmation available.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 20, 2019, 09:30:32 pm

In other news, the next British PM will be Boris Johnson - even though he complained about Gordon Brown being installed as PM in ‘07 sans election - or Jeremy Hunt - who doesn’t seem to think Scotland exists - as voted for by about 0.26% of the country.

A small sample (892) of those believe that Brexit should happen even if it results in Scotland leaving the UK, or NI leaving the UK, or significant economic damage to the UK, or the end of the Tory party itself... but not if it meant Jeremy Corbyn being PM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 20, 2019, 09:51:42 pm

Quote from: hector13 on June 20, 2019, 09:30:32 pm

In other news, the next British PM will be Boris Johnson - even though he complained about Gordon Brown being installed as PM in ‘07 sans election - or Jeremy Hunt - who doesn’t seem to think Scotland exists - as voted for by about 0.26% of the country.

A small sample (892) of those believe that Brexit should happen even if it results in Scotland leaving the UK, or NI leaving the UK, or significant economic damage to the UK, or the end of the Tory party itself... but not if it meant Jeremy Corbyn being PM.

Trying to have it both ways aren't they? lol. Since the end of the Tory party means that the opposition gets a chance to be PM, thus Jeremy Corbyn.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 21, 2019, 03:25:30 am

Nah, because the opposition's opposition is also the labour party

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 21, 2019, 08:55:47 pm

Sheneinighans is probably the last thing Boris Johnson needs right now. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home) Sounds like things didn't actually come to blows between him and his girlfriend, but it certainly won't help him much.

In non UK news, the EU apparently failed to figure out who would lead the EU next and the leading candidates got eliminated, among other things. (https://www.politico.eu/article/5-takeaways-from-eus-leadership-failure-summit/) The article itself is a bit biased, but you can still get the gist of what happened. I think they have plenty of time before they reach a crisis point of not having figured out leaders, end of October maybe? Which also just happens to be the Brexit crash through end date.

And of course, they're reiterating that they are not going to renegotiate a new withdrawl agreement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on June 21, 2019, 09:20:51 pm

Sounds like Europe's screwed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on June 21, 2019, 10:59:07 pm

I, for one, welcome our new non-existent overlords.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2019, 10:18:31 am

lol it's like a trashy reality tv show

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 22, 2019, 01:46:29 pm

Brexit Island.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 22, 2019, 01:51:04 pm

I’m a Brexiteer, get me out of here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on June 22, 2019, 03:03:53 pm

you can check out any time time you like
but you can never leave

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on June 22, 2019, 03:08:32 pm

Jokes on you, he's already exited from Britain. ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on June 22, 2019, 03:14:05 pm

Well yes, this is a jokes thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2019, 11:09:26 am

Brex on the beach
The only way is Brexit
Big brexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 23, 2019, 11:18:00 am

*clears throat*

Deal or no Deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 23, 2019, 11:19:05 am

Brex bomb, brex bomb // You're my brex bomb

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on June 23, 2019, 11:27:12 am

Big Brexit Still Hungers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2019, 11:30:10 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 23, 2019, 11:18:00 am

*clears throat*

Deal or no Deal.

Can't really top that tbh

Besides maybe the Brex Factor

*EDIT
Are you smarter than a 10 year old

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 23, 2019, 05:00:40 pm

Flicking through Facebook, saw a post from something to do with Scottish banter that equates the choice between Johnson and Hunt as PM with choosing between Kate McCann and Jimmy Saville as a babysitter.

I chuckled, and I’m not sorry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 23, 2019, 05:17:14 pm

"Plucking fingers" made me chuckle, wasn't sorry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on July 07, 2019, 06:47:32 pm

Is it normal for a Prime Minister to remain in office for this long after resigning?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 07, 2019, 06:55:42 pm

No idea if this long is unusual or not, but she is still on in caretaker mode and the proccess has various legal and logistical constraints that keeps it from going any faster than it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2019, 08:19:02 pm

Quote from: Enemy post on July 07, 2019, 06:47:32 pm

Is it normal for a Prime Minister to remain in office for this long after resigning?

She’s waiting for her successor to be chosen, the timetable for which has been set for months.

But it is rather typical of the Tories of the last few years to fritter away the time they have to engage with Europe on playing politics. She’s abandoning ship when Strong and Stable^tm leadership is needed most.

Boris has shown his biggest talent in the campaign so far is hiding, and he can’t do that as PM with 3 months to get something done before the shit hits the fan, and he’s probably going to win, so we at least get to watch that shitshow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 08, 2019, 07:09:49 am

Oh please. The most Strong and Stable thing the Mayfly could do at this point was resign. The tumult of leadership contests is still much preferable to an inept Europhile in a competent Europhobe's position.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 08, 2019, 08:57:12 am

It's a bit late for that though, innit? Even just in the Tory party there is huge division on what is the best course of action, and they were the ones that got to decide who could be the new Brexit Idol.

Consequently, this isn't your common-or-garden variety leadership contest. The EU have said they won't negotiate further on the deal that was agreed by the outgoing PM. This means Boris and Hunt have to convince parliament to vote for a deal that the former resigned over, and the latter supported but didn't really help.

Hunt also claimed Merkel said she'd be willing to renegotiate, but even if she was able to convince the other 25 or so members that was a good idea, he'd have three months to get a deal done - though he has said that he'd decide by the end of September whether or not there was a realistic chance of a deal, so two months - that took 18 months for May to receive the biggest government defeat in parliament in history.

The choice is May's deal or no deal. Maybe parliament will succeed in taking the reigns and stopping a no deal from going through, but that would probably force a GE and maybe the EU gives the UK another extension while trying not to laugh at the ineptitude of the political class.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 08, 2019, 09:10:07 am

Of course the EU won't negotiate on a deal so markedly in their favour. The choice seems to be between Bad Deal or No Deal. Personally, I know which I prefer, but everyone's different.

Anyway, I disagree with your saying it's a bit late for the Maysignation. May was pathologically devoted to her 'Deal', so much so that she was willing to throw Parliament under the wheels (repeatedly) to get it. I sincerely doubt her ability to pursue No Deal as an alternative, despite early promises. If you ask me, she left just in time to prevent a political collapse of apocalyptic proportions. The choice is the same as it was during May's tenure - Deal or No Deal, choose your box. Except now we have a chance that both options will be considered, rather than throwing everything on what many -myself included - see as a nation-crippling arrangement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 08, 2019, 10:34:51 am

The issue with reopening negotiations over the Irish Border part is it also means all 27 countries can again start jockeying for their own amendments, because that's what reopening it means. They can't just reopen the Irish border issue and nothing else, and at the very least Spain and France have extra things they want to push for, hence the trying to patch it via extra political declarations.

Really the debate around the bill was mostly which worst-case scenario you want:
Do we allow for a hypothetical situation in which the Irish Border could be closed to trade goods seeking to pass without inspection + tariffs (as mandated by WTO rules).
Do we allow for a hypothetical situation where the border remains fully open for trade goods, but separates Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK
Do we allow for a hypothetical situation where the border remains fully open for trade goods, and the UK remains in the Customs Union during the negotiations for a wider trade agreement (which we know would take years by virtue of every other trade agreement taking years to negotiate).

The former is unacceptable to the Northern Irish Republicans, the middle is unacceptable to the Northern Irish Unionists, and the latter is unacceptable to the pro-Leave parts of the English Parliament.

Until those 3 factions, all of whom have enough clout to shut down any exit from the EU, can pick an option it'll remain fucked. And getting those 3 to agree on anything is an impossible challenge. No Deal remains a less popular option than Remain to the UK population as a whole as well, unless you declare the opinions of everyone who votes Remain don't matter which ain't how democracy works I'm afraid. If you use the referendum to remove the remain option, all that does is shift those remain voters over to combine with the smaller-but-still-significant pro-Customs Union leave voters to become the largest group at still-less-than-50%-of-the-population).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 08, 2019, 10:51:22 am

Except those extrapolitical declarations aren't working. There was some talk about technical/technological solutions, but they were all 'No way, the technology doesn't exist yet or it'd take too long'. Come on, have they ever heard of IRFID tags and stuff? They should be able to figure out some sort of technical solution with current tech if they actually try.

@Th4DwArfY1: There still could be a political collapse of apocalypic proportions, especially if they fail to decide on deal or no deal and go into a general election. As for nation-crippling arrangement, both sides see the others option as nation-crippling.

Still, the UK has been preparing for a no-deal for so long that I read something about warehouses getting full. So, when it does come, it'll likely end up being more of a controlled glide 'crash through' rather than the free-fall chaos scenario people fear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 08, 2019, 10:57:11 am

Warehouse stocks are still only estimated to last a few weeks, though. And it doesn't address the issue of services provided to European companies from Britain, of which the news has mostly ignored (probably because physical manufacturing goods are a more obvious thing for the average person to grok), and still has it's own suite of difficulties and questions around how things like cross-border data security is going to work.

Considering when dealing with services, proximity to customer is arguably even more important than with physical goods, service-providing businesses are in trouble if they can't do enough business with the people in the timezones somewhat near them. Such businesses are more likely to scale down UK operations to be UK-only instead of shifting the business over to work with the US and Canada (where they probably already have offices setup anyway in much closer timezones).

Between Brexit and Trump/China mucking up the places these global service-oriented businesses with a UK branch are focusing in investing in lately, we're already seeing slowdown.

Quote from: smjjames on July 08, 2019, 10:51:22 am

Except those extrapolitical declarations aren't working. There was some talk about technical/technological solutions, but they were all 'No way, the technology doesn't exist yet or it'd take too long'. Come on, have they ever heard of IRFID tags and stuff? They should be able to figure out some sort of technical solution with current tech if they actually try.

Pretty good explanation of border trade from London School of Economics and Political Science, but a long read: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/02/06/long-read-there-is-no-such-thing-as-completely-frictionless-trade-across-a-border/

The conclusion is basically "You can move some of the checks away from the ports, but some kind of physical infrastructure will always be a requirement for any border because of the formalities involved in cross-border trade".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 08, 2019, 11:14:16 am

Having a few weeks time is better than having days or barely being prepared at all and the contingency plans will buy time as well. That's the 'controlled glide' part, though it's still up to the government to figure things out before time runs out.

For the border checks, okay, fair enough. I've read plenty about North Irish not wanting to have the physical border checks back (for various reasons, nearly all connected in some way to The Troubles) and that the border areas became prime targets for IRA attacks, but the primary no-no seems to be a border (even if it's just a trade border and not a de jure one) between NI and the rest of the UK. It's something that's going to have to be dealt with on the fly because a no-deal looks inevitable and nobody's happy with the currently proposed systems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 08, 2019, 11:44:05 am

It's "the Northern Irish," not the "North Irish." But I doubt anyone really cares, so meh.

Anyway, around 30000 people cross the border for their work daily. Trepidation concerning a 'hard' border is understandable from the likes of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 08, 2019, 12:03:28 pm

It's also an enshrined right in the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement that the citizens of Northern Island can be both Irish and British, and as I understand it the lack of a border between the two has been the symbolic embodiment of that right. So for a good subset of the Northern Irish, to at all reinstate that border is a symbolic removal or dirtying of what to them is a hard-won right.

So you've got both practical concerns, and the more ideological ones about Irish/Britishness that Good Friday agreement has managed to keep at least somewhat swept under the rug. Which is where some of the concerns about a reemergence of the Troubles come from even if it's a softer-but-visible border. Northern Island has been more peaceful since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, but we can't ignore that it's not exactly been completely peaceful (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Real_Irish_Republican_Army_actions).

Got to be careful not to pour fuel on a fire and turn people from legitimate political republicanism and to terrorism. If the UK government allow the legitimate achievements from negotiation and diplomacy so far to be so easily perceived as being undermined, and worse being undermined not by the will of the Northern Irish but by Westminister overriding the will of the Northern Irish, it risks pushing the people already on the edges closer to attempting those 'alternative approaches'. Quickest way to create extremists is to fail to address the concerns of moderates.

(Of course, if you add extra border checks leaving Northern Ireland and into Britain then you have the second verse same as the first, but with Unionists).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 08, 2019, 12:57:55 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 08, 2019, 11:44:05 am

It's "the Northern Irish," not the "North Irish." But I doubt anyone really cares, so meh.

Anyway, around 30000 people cross the border for their work daily. Trepidation concerning a 'hard' border is understandable from the likes of them.

I initially had it as 'North Irelanders' before submitting the post but changed it to Ireland and didn't think about putting the 'the' in. Don't know why I started writing it initially that way and ended up not completely fixing it in backtracking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 08, 2019, 01:00:30 pm

Norn Iron

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on July 08, 2019, 01:11:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 07, 2019, 06:55:42 pm

No idea if this long is unusual or not, but she is still on in caretaker mode and the proccess has various legal and logistical constraints that keeps it from going any faster than it is.

Quote from: hector13 on July 07, 2019, 08:19:02 pm

She’s waiting for her successor to be chosen, the timetable for which has been set for months.

But it is rather typical of the Tories of the last few years to fritter away the time they have to engage with Europe on playing politics. She’s abandoning ship when Strong and Stable^tm leadership is needed most.

Boris has shown his biggest talent in the campaign so far is hiding, and he can’t do that as PM with 3 months to get something done before the shit hits the fan, and he’s probably going to win, so we at least get to watch that shitshow.

Thanks for the replies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 08, 2019, 01:15:45 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 08, 2019, 10:51:22 am

Still, the UK has been preparing for a no-deal for so long that I read something about warehouses getting full. So, when it does come, it'll likely end up being more of a controlled glide 'crash through' rather than the free-fall chaos scenario people fear.

The Tesco CEO (largest supermarket chain in the UK, IIRC 'cause I'm too lazy to check) pointed out that warehouse space is going to be more limited at the deadline in October because of all the seasonal stuff they're going to have for Hallowe'en and Christmas.

It'll be something to watch, for suresies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 08, 2019, 01:23:41 pm

Quote from: Enemy post on July 08, 2019, 01:11:36 pm

Quote from: smjjames on July 07, 2019, 06:55:42 pm

No idea if this long is unusual or not, but she is still on in caretaker mode and the proccess has various legal and logistical constraints that keeps it from going any faster than it is.

Quote from: hector13 on July 07, 2019, 08:19:02 pm

She’s waiting for her successor to be chosen, the timetable for which has been set for months.

But it is rather typical of the Tories of the last few years to fritter away the time they have to engage with Europe on playing politics. She’s abandoning ship when Strong and Stable^tm leadership is needed most.

Boris has shown his biggest talent in the campaign so far is hiding, and he can’t do that as PM with 3 months to get something done before the shit hits the fan, and he’s probably going to win, so we at least get to watch that shitshow.

Thanks for the replies.

Cool post, thanks for sharing!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 08, 2019, 02:00:47 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 08, 2019, 11:44:05 am

It's "the Northern Irish," not the "North Irish." But I doubt anyone really cares, so meh.

If we're going to be technical I'm going to have to insist it be Northern Irelandish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 08, 2019, 02:25:26 pm

That's not technical at all, but you do you bud  ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 10, 2019, 11:23:42 am

That feeling when devolved powers are so crippled by local politics that Westminster has voted in favour of deeply divisive issues which every Northern Irish politician voted against. Not only is this a pointed fingers-up to devolution, it incentivises Sinn Fein's continued refusal to play political ball in Northern Ireland.

Well done, Westminster. Once again your chronic inability to understand Northern Ireland has been displayed. Bravo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 10, 2019, 01:52:48 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 10, 2019, 11:23:42 am

That feeling when devolved powers are so crippled by local politics that Westminster has voted in favour of deeply divisive issues which every Northern Irish politician voted against. Not only is this a pointed fingers-up to devolution, it incentivises Sinn Fein's continued refusal to play political ball in Northern Ireland.

Well done, Westminster. Once again your chronic inability to understand Northern Ireland has been displayed. Bravo.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to seccede or join into RoI.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 10, 2019, 02:25:57 pm

Option one: Secede - NI is non-viable as an independent economic unit.
Option two: Join RoI - two votes are needed, one in NI and the other in RoI. An unpopular venture here, and RoI knows that NI is non-viable as an economic unit.

Option three: Stay in the Union and cause a stink - requires no vote, doesn't disrupt our already shaky economy, lets us roll our eyes at mainland wilful stupidity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 10, 2019, 02:49:01 pm

Non-viable as an economic unit because the UK keeps it that way or because of the combination of resources? Just wondering.

Or maybe nonviable in the sense of most US states being non-viable as an economic unit because of both the combination of resources and because it's so connected into the economic network of the rest of the country.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 11, 2019, 06:27:35 am

I'm only posting this here because I don't want to start fouling up the sad thread with British-EU politics.

I've realised (or more accurately, it's properly sunk in) just how authoritarian not-insignificant parts of the UK populace are. I've seen people saying that the "remainer traitors" should all be kicked out of public office (Farage said this, hence how I've been hearing a lot of other people go on about this) for daring to continue to hold their own views and not start slobbering over the cocks of the leaders of the no-deal movement. It's literally akin to how in the 1930s people in Germany weren't allowed to hold office for "betraying" the country, or the McCarthyite lunacy in the US. What's even more astonishing is how utterly in denial they are about the fact that behaviour like this is extraordinarily undemocratic, and they in fact think that it's promoting democracy.

And a large number of people are supporting this out of nothing more than sheer spite. What the actual fuck is wrong with us?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 11, 2019, 08:26:45 am

Quote from: Great Order on July 11, 2019, 06:27:35 am

And a large number of people are supporting this out of nothing more than sheer spite. What the actual fuck is wrong with us?

There's a certain kind of people, who hold the view that democracy means tyranny of the majority over the minority. They're enamoured of authoritarianism and not interested in compromise or coexistence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 11, 2019, 08:40:15 am

They they they

Be not a lofty peak in the midst of a plain. It is illusory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 11, 2019, 08:49:57 am

Oh, my god. I never realised one can't disagree with other people, since it's all relative and we're all equally wrong! That is so profound I can't even.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 11, 2019, 08:51:39 am

Enlightenment has been achieved. Truly, I am glad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 11, 2019, 09:00:40 am

Senpai-sama, you are so wise. Like some very wise guy, at the least. I hope one day you'll notice me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on July 11, 2019, 11:46:55 am

Well, actually, I see some of the possible reasoning behind that statement. Those people likely have qualms not exactly with the fact that these representatives supported Remain, but with that these representatives are still actively fighting the Leave motion and trying to turn the tide the other direction, despite the public referendum already deciding to Leave.

That reasoning itself could be debated, but it’s best not to immediately dismiss these people as authoritarian shills.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 11, 2019, 12:52:52 pm

The people I'm mainly complaining about are the people insistent that remainers basically be turned into second-class citizens for the crime of holding thoughts that run contrary to the referendum result. It's not people that are being public with their opposition to the current state of affairs. They want to basically tear out anyone with a different ideology from having any position of authority in the country. It's literally McCarthy style thought processes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 11, 2019, 01:32:15 pm

I have a family member who basically got told his opinion didn't matter when we got into a political discussion with a pro-No Deal family member. Thing is, he voted Leave but thinks No Deal is such a terrible idea he'd prefer Remain over No Deal. They argued that he should have known voting Leave meant No Deal and nothing else despite that definitely not being what was argued for at the time by a lot of pro-Leave politicians. I like to think he's a smart man, but he did believe the "easiest deal in the world" talk so sometimes I wonder -_-.

So not only do you not have a say if you voted remain in how we leave, but even if you voted Leave you clearly didn't understand what it meant unless you want No Deal (despite if you argue we have to honour a years old referendum come hell or high water then all it did is is take remain off the table and dictate nothing about how we leave. Well, technically all it did was commit the UK to trigger Article 50 and nothing else. We did that, can always cancel it now and technically still have fulfilled the referendum. But I'm at least trying to go with the spirit of the vote here :P).

Problem is when you break down what people think is an acceptable compromise, Remain voters and Leave-voters-like-my-family-member come together to form the biggest block on "Customs Union". I guess this is the problem with narrow referendum results on any topic when the question has any room for interpretation or extrapolation, since if you go by the majority-of-the-majority you still can wind up with a minority if that interpretation it was put to a yes/no question.

EDIT: Replaced relation to me with generic 'family member', since revealing how someone else voted is a considered bad thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on July 11, 2019, 01:37:50 pm

Wasn't the referendum technically not even legally binding?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 11, 2019, 01:39:23 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on July 11, 2019, 01:37:50 pm

Wasn't the referendum technically not even legally binding?

In the UK referendums are basically never considered anything but advisory. Only one I can think of that wasn't was the attempt to switch from First past the post to Alternative Vote about a little under decade ago. I was juuust too young to vote in that one myself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 12, 2019, 09:41:30 am

On today's episode of "Is this guy a lunatic, a moron, or making shit up for votes?" we have Robert Rowland, saying he wants a 200 mile fishing exclusion zone, where the UK torpedoes every foreign ship found in "our" waters. (https://twitter.com/RowlandBrexitSE/status/1148987466721964034?s=09)

So this is how the English reclaim Normandy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 12, 2019, 01:06:55 pm

I like how he says any ships within the 200 mile (presumably he meant nautical miles) radius will be treated like the Belgranao, which was a warship that was hunting British vessels, and was actually outside the 200 nautical mile exclusion zone when it was attacked.

Also, how does that work with the various countries that exist within the 200 mile radius? The channel will be frickin’ No Man’s Sea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on July 12, 2019, 03:53:29 pm

Quote from: Great Order on July 12, 2019, 09:41:30 am

On today's episode of "Is this guy a lunatic, a moron, or making shit up for votes?" we have Robert Rowland, saying he wants a 200 mile fishing exclusion zone, where the UK torpedoes every foreign ship found in "our" waters. (https://twitter.com/RowlandBrexitSE/status/1148987466721964034?s=09)

And it sounds like the answer to the question is a resounding "Yes."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 12, 2019, 04:57:33 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 12, 2019, 01:06:55 pm

I like how he says any ships within the 200 mile (presumably he meant nautical miles) radius will be treated like the Belgranao, which was a warship that was hunting British vessels, and was actually outside the 200 nautical mile exclusion zone when it was attacked.

Also, how does that work with the various countries that exist within the 200 mile radius? The channel will be frickin’ No Man’s Sea.

The channel will be British waters. As will northern France, Belgium, the Netherlands, maybe a chunk of Norway, and a bit of Germany if it reaches far enough.

And Ireland, because we need to fix that Irish border issue and claiming them by right of them being in our sea sounds very British.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 12, 2019, 05:21:26 pm

And if we're including Gibraltar, Spain, bits of Morocco, the Strait of Gibraltar itself, then whatever is within 200 miles/kilometers of other British territories.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on July 12, 2019, 07:49:10 pm

While we're at it, we can also finally solve the long-standing Falklands dispute by uniting the Falklands with Argentina.  ¿Las Malvinas son Argentinas?  The River Plate shall be Falklander.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 13, 2019, 03:20:59 pm

Didn't they try enforcing a no-fishing zone with Iceland before?

And Iceland beat the snot out of them with three fishing boats?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 13, 2019, 03:40:27 pm

Iceland beat the snot out of them by threatening to pull out of NATO and causing a strategical debacle in the Cold War. It was a diplomatic victory not a military one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 15, 2019, 05:35:16 pm

Open letter to the Prime Minister

Quote

Dear Prime Minister,

We are writing to you about the NI (Executive Functions) Bill, currently before Parliament.

Last week an amendment which seeks to change substantively the law on abortion was tabled to this Northern Ireland Bill by Members of Parliament who do not represent constituencies in Northern Ireland. This Bill had been subject to a fast-track procedure, the constitutional propriety of which has been questioned, and the use of which has most recently been discouraged in the context of Northern Ireland, except in urgent situations,  by the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords. The use of the fast-track procedure reduced even further, the  opportunity for proper scrutiny.

The amendment was then selected even though the clerks advised the Speaker that it was out of scope. Despite the fact that this devolved matter was addressed very recently by the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2016 when a clear majority of MLAs voted against changing the law in any way, this amendment was passed. This Bill has, therefore, been extended in a manifestly inappropriate way because basic constitutional procedures regarding selection of amendments were disregarded. 100% of the Northern Ireland MPs who have taken their seats at Westminster, voted against what has become Clause 9 of the bill.  The imposition of this legislation on Northern Ireland in its current form, voted for only by MPs who do not represent constituencies in Northern Ireland, would represent a massive democratic deficit.

As Lord Duncan said in October last year when the previous Act was passed, “As someone who comes from part of the kingdom which has a fully functioning devolved Government, I stress again that these decisions must be taken by the devolved Administration in the north of Ireland. There is no point in pretending we can usurp democracy in that fashion, simply because devolution is not to our liking. Devolution must function even when it is not as we would like to see it, but rather, how it must be”.—[Official Report, 30/10/18; col. 1278.]

Regardless, then, of what one thinks about abortion it is a very big issue and the manner in which there has been an attempt to change abortion law in Northern Ireland this week treats the people of Northern Ireland with contempt, since there is this huge democratic deficit in a situation in which sensitive negotiations are ongoing. It has the capacity to undermine the delicate political calibration between Northern Ireland and Westminster and to cause significant damage to attempts to restore the Northern Ireland Assembly.  We want to see the Northern Ireland Assembly restored and functioning.   

Such significant proposals for change in the UK are normally preceded by at least a three month consultation.  The views of the democratically elected representatives of the people of that part of the UK would be respected.  There would be a full and proper legislative procedure which would permit proper debate about any such significant change and any such bill would follow the normal parliamentary procedures.  It would be dealt with according to convention, and having regard to all our international legal obligations. 

This has not happened in the current bill, and Lord Duncan has been unable to certify that it is fully compliant with European Human Rights Convention obligations. 

That was not the Government’s fault BUT the Government now has a responsibility to respond.

We note that Lord Duncan has said that he intends to re-write the deficiencies in clause 9, which is not legally capable of being implemented, but if this involved placing the power to act on any basis other than the Section 26 power agreed by Parliament, this would involve the Government breaking the Sewell Convention, part of which involved an assurance to the devolved administrations that Government would not legislate on transferred matters, such as abortion, without the consent of the devolved administration. It would also make the Government complicit in the constitutional abuses  which occurred last week in the House of Commons.

We are writing to call on you to do one of two things:

Either withdraw the Bill, which as the NI Attorney General has said is in part “unclear and inconsistent with important human rights texts,” and which is inherently contradictory. We accept that this would require the introduction of another Bill to achieve the legitimate purpose of the original NI (Executive Functions) Bill. It would then be necessary for the Bill to be handled in a way which is not inconsistent with the law, the constitution and the UK’s international obligations.

Alternatively Government could support the amendment introduced by Baroness O’Loan, Lord Eames and Lord Hay, which seeks to address the total democratic deficit of the current bill by requiring that any legislation emanating from Clause 9 must be subject to a public consultation and only laid before Parliament if it has the support of a majority of members of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

We the under-signed cannot overstate the grave importance of this matter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 16, 2019, 11:44:38 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 15, 2019, 05:35:16 pm

Open letter to the Prime Minister

Quote

Dear Prime Minister,

We are writing to you about the NI (Executive Functions) Bill, currently before Parliament.

Last week an amendment which seeks to change substantively the law on abortion was tabled to this Northern Ireland Bill by Members of Parliament who do not represent constituencies in Northern Ireland. This Bill had been subject to a fast-track procedure, the constitutional propriety of which has been questioned, and the use of which has most recently been discouraged in the context of Northern Ireland, except in urgent situations,  by the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords. The use of the fast-track procedure reduced even further, the  opportunity for proper scrutiny.

The amendment was then selected even though the clerks advised the Speaker that it was out of scope. Despite the fact that this devolved matter was addressed very recently by the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2016 when a clear majority of MLAs voted against changing the law in any way, this amendment was passed. This Bill has, therefore, been extended in a manifestly inappropriate way because basic constitutional procedures regarding selection of amendments were disregarded. 100% of the Northern Ireland MPs who have taken their seats at Westminster, voted against what has become Clause 9 of the bill.  The imposition of this legislation on Northern Ireland in its current form, voted for only by MPs who do not represent constituencies in Northern Ireland, would represent a massive democratic deficit.

As Lord Duncan said in October last year when the previous Act was passed, “As someone who comes from part of the kingdom which has a fully functioning devolved Government, I stress again that these decisions must be taken by the devolved Administration in the north of Ireland. There is no point in pretending we can usurp democracy in that fashion, simply because devolution is not to our liking. Devolution must function even when it is not as we would like to see it, but rather, how it must be”.—[Official Report, 30/10/18; col. 1278.]

Regardless, then, of what one thinks about abortion it is a very big issue and the manner in which there has been an attempt to change abortion law in Northern Ireland this week treats the people of Northern Ireland with contempt, since there is this huge democratic deficit in a situation in which sensitive negotiations are ongoing. It has the capacity to undermine the delicate political calibration between Northern Ireland and Westminster and to cause significant damage to attempts to restore the Northern Ireland Assembly.  We want to see the Northern Ireland Assembly restored and functioning.   

Such significant proposals for change in the UK are normally preceded by at least a three month consultation.  The views of the democratically elected representatives of the people of that part of the UK would be respected.  There would be a full and proper legislative procedure which would permit proper debate about any such significant change and any such bill would follow the normal parliamentary procedures.  It would be dealt with according to convention, and having regard to all our international legal obligations. 

This has not happened in the current bill, and Lord Duncan has been unable to certify that it is fully compliant with European Human Rights Convention obligations. 

That was not the Government’s fault BUT the Government now has a responsibility to respond.

We note that Lord Duncan has said that he intends to re-write the deficiencies in clause 9, which is not legally capable of being implemented, but if this involved placing the power to act on any basis other than the Section 26 power agreed by Parliament, this would involve the Government breaking the Sewell Convention, part of which involved an assurance to the devolved administrations that Government would not legislate on transferred matters, such as abortion, without the consent of the devolved administration. It would also make the Government complicit in the constitutional abuses  which occurred last week in the House of Commons.

We are writing to call on you to do one of two things:

Either withdraw the Bill, which as the NI Attorney General has said is in part “unclear and inconsistent with important human rights texts,” and which is inherently contradictory. We accept that this would require the introduction of another Bill to achieve the legitimate purpose of the original NI (Executive Functions) Bill. It would then be necessary for the Bill to be handled in a way which is not inconsistent with the law, the constitution and the UK’s international obligations.

Alternatively Government could support the amendment introduced by Baroness O’Loan, Lord Eames and Lord Hay, which seeks to address the total democratic deficit of the current bill by requiring that any legislation emanating from Clause 9 must be subject to a public consultation and only laid before Parliament if it has the support of a majority of members of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

We the under-signed cannot overstate the grave importance of this matter.

I’m not European, but will this be sent to the Prime Minister?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 16, 2019, 08:55:58 pm

@naturegirl: Pretty sure Prime Minister is gender neutral...

Anyways. Ursula Von der Leyen officially becomes the head of the EU. (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/16/trump-european-union-germany-1417976) At least I think the position is supposed to be the head of the EU? Also, she's replacing Donald Tusk I think, right? Not sure if Donald Tusk was actually in the same postion or not, but he was definetly the face of EU parliamentary leadership.

Also, I thought Trump would totally be for an EU army given how he's all 'Others need to take up the slack!'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 16, 2019, 09:12:07 pm

Oops, I didn’t mean to type the a I meant prime minister. I will edit my previous post accordingly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 17, 2019, 04:49:25 am

Quote from: smjjames on July 16, 2019, 08:55:58 pm

Also, I thought Trump would totally be for an EU army given how he's all 'Others need to take up the slack!'.

It's more along the lines of "They need to spend more money and buy from American suppliers"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 18, 2019, 09:31:35 am

I'm not entirely sure on the details of it, but the UK HoC just voted through something to stop the government proroguing parliament. It was advisory.

There's some hilarity in that a lot of leavers are pointing out this is advisory and thus not worth a damn, thus showing all the introspective ability of a plant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on July 19, 2019, 04:02:12 pm

Not sure if this is the right thread for it, but prepare to raise the Union Jack. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 19, 2019, 04:04:31 pm

Oh gee, they turned off their GPS in a heavily armed strait, that's not intentional provocation or anything. I wonder how the CIA trains their sailors?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on July 20, 2019, 02:05:30 am

Not the first time the UK uses it's naval vessels for diplomacy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_diplomacy)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 20, 2019, 07:36:39 pm

Uh, guys, it was a civillian tanker ship......

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 20, 2019, 09:19:00 pm

I was referring to the gunboat diplomacy stuff.

Anyways, I wonder, if war breaks out between US and Iran and the UK gets dragged into it one way or another, would that be reason enough to cancel Brexit or at least get the EU to delay it further? Going to war just as you enter economic turmoil is a pretty dumb idea, unless of course the point of the war is to fix the turmoil.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/20/boris-johnson-iran-gulf-crisis-admiral-lord-west

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/20/new-pm-take-note-iran-crisis-could-escalate-into-war

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 23, 2019, 10:05:15 am

Question: is Boris' hair going to have a special relationship with Donald's?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 23, 2019, 10:08:09 am

Congrats on the new Boris, lads.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2019, 10:21:51 am

It was inevitable.

Boris Johnson's Trumplikeness aside, there is still potential for fireworks as a good chunk of his party (and likely a good chunk of the rest of Parliament) are threatening to revolt if he tries to force through no-deal Brexit. To the point of having a plan that would involve the Queen, though it's more like leverage rather than actually going through with it.

There's still a chance of course, of no-deal Brexit going through whether Johnson is trying to force it through or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 23, 2019, 10:52:45 am

No deal brexit is the default of not agreeing a deal. Its not even a matter of forcing no deal brexit through, he could just sit on his thumbs and wait it to happen. In fact even if he didnt want it to happen  he.might not be able to steer it away anyway. Lets not forget that  the British prliament hss voted decisively against no deal..m but also against every deal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 11:14:27 am

What exactly didn’t they like about the deals? If they want Brexit, why do they reject every deal?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on July 23, 2019, 11:22:39 am

If I remember correctly the parliament is split pretty evenly between several factions (that do not follow party lines whatsoever). Any deal that pleases one faction is unacceptable to basically everyone else (especially the hardline no-dealers or remainers). Compromise isn't possible here because EU is basically sick of this bullshit and isn't willing to negotiate further.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 11:29:08 am

Hahaha.

Yes, the EU won't compromise because they're sick of British stupidity.

Nothing to do with the deal they negotiated being so ridiculously in their favour it took them 30 mins to accept it and the British government had to throw it into the rubbish three times before May realised that even Leaver MPs didn't want a deal which was worse than Remain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 11:52:48 am

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

The 'deal' by Theresa may wasn't even an actual deal deal, it was just a reaaaallly long agreement to keep as close to status quo as possible until they could work out an actual 'free trade' deal, which would still be worse than Remain since still mean our products follow different standards by default and require extra verification before being traded. It's just mean we wouldn't have the WTO-default 3rd country export/import taxes on top of the cost of that certification of all goods we export/import.

The sticking point being if it couldn't be worked out what the heck do you do with the Irish border-that-can't-actually-be-a-border. If memory serves, the weird half-in half-out NI slightly different regulatory to rest of UK backstop solution they settled on was actually proposed by the UK negotiators in the first place, hence the EU being a little pissed off that the thing they view it that they compromised on more than they'd like is what parliament opposed to.

And if they open it up again, it opens everything up again. Which means France and Spain, who think they compromised too much and should have pushed more on fishing rights and Gibraltar, get to start pushing again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 12:10:24 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

Though the UK would be broken then

Yes, that would be the problem. Not to mention how you would get the EU to agree to letting fractions of nations enter the EU. Sets a bad precedent.

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 11:52:48 am

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

If you define the success of Brexit by how much access Britain has to EU markets, then yes, anything other than Remain is going to be worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on July 23, 2019, 12:13:08 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 11:29:08 am

Nothing to do with the deal they negotiated being so ridiculously in their favour it took them 30 mins to accept it and the British government had to throw it into the rubbish three times before May realised that even Leaver MPs didn't want a deal which was worse than Remain.

Yeah, fair point, I do agree.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 12:18:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 12:23:40 pm

I mean, I do remember being promised we'd have comparable access to what we had in the EU by members of the leave campaign wthout being subject to the EU regulatory laws whilst also being able to have amazing totally wonderful trust me my hands are so huuuuge deals with every other country because of the size of our giant economic (mostly imports and service industry based) penis.

Source for such claims: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_trade.html

If we don't get that, is Brexit by definition of not achieving what was promised, not a failure?

Considering the EU are our biggest import partner (since proximity helps tremendously there) as well as the biggest export partner for our service industry (since proximity helps tremendously there), reduced access to them does hurt current businesses. Is it not the job of a government to protect those businesses and the people who work for them? Especially since 80% of the UK economy is services?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2019, 12:28:33 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

Except that they DON'T want to have NI or anybody else split off from the UK, which is why it's not an option.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 12:10:24 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

Though the UK would be broken then

Yes, that would be the problem. Not to mention how you would get the EU to agree to letting fractions of nations enter the EU. Sets a bad precedent.

I'd think it would transition into full country status first? Not a great precedent for future exits though.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 12:10:24 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 11:52:48 am

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

If you define the success of Brexit by how much access Britain has to EU markets, then yes, anything other than Remain is going to be worse.

Which has been the problem of Brexit from the start, nobody agrees on what Brexit is supposed to mean or what they really want out of Brexit.

The other thing that makes dealing with NI far from simple is the history of The Troubles and the Good Friday Deal.

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 12:23:40 pm

I mean, I do remember being promised we'd have comparable access to what we had in the EU by members of the leave campaign wthout being subject to the EU regulatory laws whilst also being able to have amazing totally wonderful trust me my hands are so huuuuge deals with every other country because of the size of our giant economic (mostly imports and service industry based) penis.

Source for such claims: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_trade.html

If we don't get that, is Brexit by definition of not achieving what was promised, not a failure?

Except that in order to have access to the same sweet trade deals, they by definition have to follow the regulations because they'd still be in the EU market, which is the point of contention really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:54:06 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 12:18:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 23, 2019, 01:12:00 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:54:06 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 12:18:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

Think you mean England, love. Britain is the geographical landmass that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. "Great Britain" means the same thing, except for when it means the same thing but also the rest of the UK.

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 01:14:15 pm

Quote from: Kagus on July 23, 2019, 01:12:00 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:54:06 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 12:18:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 12:03:15 pm

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

Think you mean England, love. Britain is the geographical landmass that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. "Great Britain" means the same thing, except for when it means the same thing but also the rest of the UK.

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Thank you, yes I did mean England. I thought it was just England that wanted to leave

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 23, 2019, 01:17:55 pm

Quote from: Kagus on July 23, 2019, 01:12:00 pm

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Have you been to UK? London is the entire country, the rest is just sheep and shrubbery.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 01:25:35 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 23, 2019, 01:14:15 pm

Thank you, yes I did mean England. I thought it was just England that wanted to leave

If we measure by constituency then leave consists of most of England, most of Wales and a smattering of Northern Irish constituencies.

By population it's roughly 53/47 leave/remain in England, 45/55 in NI, 52/47 in Wales and 38/62 in Scotland. So about 50% everywhere but Scotland, where it's 40%.

Quote from: Il Palazzo on July 23, 2019, 01:17:55 pm

Quote from: Kagus on July 23, 2019, 01:12:00 pm

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Have you been to UK? London is the entire country, the rest is just sheep and shrubbery.

I hear Glasgow throws a great Pride day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 01:44:32 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 12:23:40 pm

I mean, I do remember being promised we'd have comparable access to what we had in the EU by members of the leave campaign wthout being subject to the EU regulatory laws whilst also being able to have amazing totally wonderful trust me my hands are so huuuuge deals with every other country because of the size of our giant economic (mostly imports and service industry based) penis.

Source for such claims: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_trade.html

If we don't get that, is Brexit by definition of not achieving what was promised, not a failure?

Considering the EU are our biggest import partner (since proximity helps tremendously there) as well as the biggest export partner for our service industry (since proximity helps tremendously there), reduced access to them does hurt current businesses. Is it not the job of a government to protect those businesses and the people who work for them? Especially since 80% of the UK economy is services?

The job of a government is to protect more than its people's economy, else we would still be the beneficiaries of slave trade. Short term, I have no doubt there will be disruptions in trade. Long term is anyone's guess, though of course the Remain campaign was rather fervent in saying the economy would immediately implode.

Personally, I am of the opinion that a robust, growing economy is nice. But it is by no means the only factor which a competent governing body should consider. There are other things of value, not least what the people want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on July 23, 2019, 01:51:47 pm

east india company is a viable type of gooberment because it protects businesses lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 01:55:59 pm

Note: Protecting the businesses and people doesn't necessarily mean protecting the current status quo. It can also involve establishing and funding support systems for the people and businesses affected with transitions where possible. Establish more-generous welfare packages for those who lose their jobs, stimulus packages to support businesses, retraining systems for those whose careers are no longer viable, state sponsored establishment of new businesses to replace ones that prove no longer viable. A heck of a lot of money a conservative party would never spend, but it's what I'd call a responsible approach and probably a good test run for the inevitable waves of automation-related layoffs over the next few decades (and probably should have been in place already since the digital revolution has already long begun but heyo).

Hence why I specifically mentioned protecting the people in the jobs. That's the priority. If the only path to protect them is to protect business, you protect business. If there's an alternative route that protects them, sure let's try and convince people we should take that.

So far I've yet to see any serious proposals from pro-Brexit people for those alternate routes, mostly because they refuse to engage with the idea that anything could need doing and it won't be all rainbow farts and unicorn piss in the first place. Brexit is treated as the goal worth any price, instead of the means to achieve something. That's just dangerous.

Wanting to take the road of, to put it bluntly, "It's gonna be disruption so fuck everyone who doesn't want that" is just...something I have a lot of words for, most of them either synonyms of "self-centred" or rhyme with "Seeing a Jeremy Hunt".

Plus there's that a good chunk of the more at risk of losing out businesses are the ones that a sensible modern government would want to be encouraging the growth of. The modern world is a world of services. Which are more at risk from losing out here. I occasionally have to work with Americans on services (IT is seen as global so we're all in one team), it's honestly frustrating and inefficient simply because you only have a few hours of the day in which both of you are awake. You need to touch as little of the same stuff as possible to get anything done, and that just isn't anywhere near as efficient as being able to have constant conversations throughout the day as needed. You have to stop working on something and wait for the Americans to wake up, deal with it. Then after you go to bed they will have to do the same. It's a significant increase in time and decrease in efficiency. Efficiency is king for competitiveness.

The closer a timezone the better for co-operation, which is why the overwhelming majority of our clients and suppliers are either UK or EU. Good thing our business doesn't have any people in Australia, since such work with Australians would be a true nightmare unless one of us became nocturnal.

Also, the peoples wants are currently somewhere around "no no no no" to everything, you could say that the people are actually pretty well represented in parliament at the moment to be honest. None of the individual options have reliably scored over 50% in any of the polling. Summing up all the leave options together gets you a little over 50%, but as soon as you get into detail you get back into the problem of no clear majority again. You can't just take the majority of the majority, which then is a minority, and call it a day (especially when remain still outnumbers no deal when you do that). If anything it's become even more entrenched and divided since after the referendum, with even less people willing to accept one of the compromise options compared to the one they want in the polls compared to previously.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 02:00:12 pm

No, my friend, the South Sea company is best governmental basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company

Also, it's funny how Amber Rudd suddenly contemplates No Deal after Boris becomes PM [Insert Perplexed Face]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2019, 02:21:47 pm

I wonder if they ever tried the option of, 'if no-deal wasn't an option, which of these would you want'. Or maybe ask if they would be willing to go through with a no-deal Brexit. Still, if the public can't decide (as in having no majority support for any option), how can the politicians decide for sure?

Also, I've gotta heavily criticise Sinn Fein here, if they actually put their voices in, maybe something would be done about the Irish Border. Then again, it wouldn't change the fact that nobody can decide on what particular thing they want.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:24:55 pm

Sinn Fienn did come out supporting the backstop deal present in Theresa Mays deal: https://www.itv.com/news/2018-11-25/sinn-fein-martina-anderson-brexit-backstop/

They just refuse to ever swear loyalty to the British Crown, so never take their seats in Parliament. Since their whole thing is wanting to leave the realm of the British Crown, actually I wonder how that would even work legally. Like...is taking that oath and then breaking it any kind of offence? If you are obviously not loyal to the crown when swearing since you want to secede, is that an offence? What's the point of even requiring the swear if it isn't? Could the SNP be regarded in breach of something in theory, or are they somehow technically 'loyal to crown'?

Huh. British Parliament procedure remains weirdly archaic in many ways I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 02:35:02 pm

It's a matter of pride, obviously. I suppose that they don't represent their constituents properly (myself included, actually, I believe that my MP is Sinn Fein - or is, in other words, for all intents and purposes non-existent) doesn't really matter, because they were voted in on the assumption that they would not represent their constituents. Cushy number :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 02:45:47 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:24:55 pm

Sinn Fienn did come out supporting the backstop deal present in Theresa Mays deal: https://www.itv.com/news/2018-11-25/sinn-fein-martina-anderson-brexit-backstop/

They just refuse to ever swear loyalty to the British Crown, so never take their seats in Parliament. Since their whole thing is wanting to leave the realm of the British Crown, actually I wonder how that would even work legally. Like...is taking that oath and then breaking it any kind of offence? If you are obviously not loyal to the crown when swearing since you want to secede, is that an offence? What's the point of even requiring the swear if it isn't? Could the SNP be regarded in breach of something in theory, or are they somehow technically 'loyal to crown'?

Huh. British Parliament procedure remains weirdly archaic in many ways I guess.

Sinn Fein would be lying when they made the oath, but would still have to make it which violates their republican principles even though it would technically be mocking the very concept of the oath in the process which would in theory be supporting their principles. It's kind of complicated when you get down to it, but they've basically taken a stance of conscientious abstention rather than subversive participation.

The SNP takes the oath* because they aren't republicans, they're just secessionists (mostly anyway.) The SNP wants to keep the Queen as the head of state similar to some of the former colonial territories, they just don't want to be governed by the British parliament. Though it might be more accurate to say the SNP as a group doesn't care much about the Queen one war or the other to be honest, it's a matter for the future.


*There are technically two versions of the oath of loyalty, one is sworn and one is affirmed as I recall. The former invokes god and the latter doesn't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:59:13 pm

Ah, so SNP want to sucede just from the United Kingdom whilst Sienn Fenn want to sucede from the United Kingdom and the Crown. Gotcha. I'd say makes sense, but I'm probably what others would call a British Republican so I actually think Sienn Fenn make more sense than the SNP there xD

i.e I would rather keep the United Kingdom together but honestly think having a royal family in this day and age is...just kinda daft, really :P Oh sure you can go back and forth on the economics of it one way or the other, but at the end of the day...ain't it just kinda daft? It's the future now, why do we have something as archaic as a monarchy?

Then again I'm the opposite of a traditionalist in many ways and think if a tradition no longer serves a useful purpose it should be disposed of. So when the only major defence people fall back to is "But it's tradition" and "But wouldn't it be sad if we didn't have one", I just hear the equivalent of white noise xD Throw them out and leave them to only matter in anyway to the few who care. Just like we did with Hot Cross Buns.

(Explanation: May be just me, but it seems like nobody seems to bother with Hot Cross Buns on Good Friday anymore, except for the odd religious types for whom Good Friday is more than just another bank holiday).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 03:07:03 pm

Of course, the political and social benefits are also white noise? International relations through state functions, a figurehead for the nation? Indeed, something to rally around as part of the British identity?

As odious and hard to get on with as he may be, Donald Trump intensely disliked Theresa May - but liked the Queen, and raved about her both home and abroad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 03:20:30 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:59:13 pm

Ah, so SNP want to sucede just from the United Kingdom whilst Sienn Fenn want to sucede from the United Kingdom and the Crown. Gotcha. I'd say makes sense, but I'm probably what others would call a British Republican so I actually think Sienn Fenn make more sense than the SNP there xD

The SNP is basically just putting it off as a question for later in favour of not dividing their support base in the current time. The party's core principle is seceding from the UK, the nature of the independent government is largely undiscussed. The core unifying factor for most of the party can be summed up as 'Westminster sucks and is full of the Conservative party.'

Sinn Fein by contrast want to join the Republic of Ireland, so their desired future is explicitly defined and involves no Queen and that vision of the future is the core unifying principle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2019, 03:24:55 pm

William and Harry are looking to redefine the monarchy (the British monarchy, if not monarchy in general) in the 21st century though (yes, I know, Charles is the actual de jure next in line, not William). So, the argument could change.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 03:07:03 pm

Of course, the political and social benefits are also white noise? International relations through state functions, a figurehead for the nation? Indeed, something to rally around as part of the British identity?

As odious and hard to get on with as he may be, Donald Trump intensely disliked Theresa May - but liked the Queen, and raved about her both home and abroad.

It's also harder to have that kind of discussion with a monarch who is revered and has had a long reign. If you wanted to pick your last monarch, Queen Elizabeth would be just about the top pick to end the era with honor, so, the transition is likely to happen at the end of her reign (when she passes, obviously) since there will always be direction searching at the end of such a long and extremely significant reign.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2019, 03:26:49 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 03:07:03 pm

Of course, the political and social benefits are also white noise? International relations through state functions, a figurehead for the nation? Indeed, something to rally around as part of the British identity?

As odious and hard to get on with as he may be, Donald Trump intensely disliked Theresa May - but liked the Queen, and raved about her both home and abroad.

I’m not sure that’s worth the several tens of million of pounds it costs to keep them, versus the cost of elected representatives and diplomats who could perform the same tasks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on July 23, 2019, 03:33:42 pm

You people act as though trump liking you is a compliment to your character or you in any way....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2019, 03:38:51 pm

Donald Trump likes Alex Salmond when he made it so he could build his golf course and ruin the sand.

Donald Trump thought Alex Salmond was a cunt when he wouldn’t not build his sea windmills in front of Donald Trump’s boring sand and golf course.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 03:42:11 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on July 23, 2019, 03:33:42 pm

You people act as though trump liking you is a compliment to your character or you in any way....

Personally I consider being anything more than coldly polite to him a sign of poor character, but Dw4rfy and I come at things from ideologically opposed perspectives.

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2019, 03:38:51 pm

Donald Trump likes Alex Salmond when he made it so he could build his golf course and ruin the sand.

Donald Trump thought Alex Salmond was a cunt when he wouldn’t not build his sea windmills in front of Donald Trump’s boring sand and golf course.

I really wish we had a good way to penalise corporations who keep wasting court and government time on failed appeals motivated by profit. Took stupidly long to get those windmills done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 23, 2019, 03:42:38 pm

It's more about the benefits now since the political and social benefits will look different under Charles or William. Which is what I was getting at about it being hard to discuss getting rid of a monarch that is widely revered, has had a long reign, and is nearing the end of that reign. Nobody really has the desire to make her suffer such an indignity as being forced to step down and end the monarchy.

As I said, her grandchildren are looking to redefine the monarchy in the 21st century, so, the conversation could very well be dynamic. Also, while Charles and William would still be bound by the legal requirements to not rock the political boat, I can't see William (no idea about Charles though) being as politically in the background like Queen Elizabeth.

Quote from: hector13 on July 23, 2019, 03:38:51 pm

Donald Trump likes Alex Salmond when he made it so he could build his golf course and ruin the sand.

Donald Trump thought Alex Salmond was a cunt when he wouldn’t not build his sea windmills in front of Donald Trump’s boring sand and golf course.

Exactly, Trump only likes you so long as you don't criticise him or disagree with him in a way that offends his ego.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on July 23, 2019, 03:43:44 pm

And literally any disagreement or criticism is a personal insult to him

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 04:32:41 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 03:42:11 pm

Personally I consider being anything more than coldly polite to him a sign of poor character, but Dw4rfy and I come at things from ideologically opposed perspectives.

Nah, it's like watching your own ideals be somewhat twisted by a rude, temperamental jackanapes. I think coldly polite is about all I could muster.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 04:40:59 pm

The political uses of the Crown are one of those things I place in the 'you can go back and forth on' category, whether they could be better fulfilled by an appointed official not 'legally-regarded-as-divinely-appointed-by-a-god-the-majority-of-the-population-don't-believe-in' or not.

I don't see how claiming it a part of "British Identity" is anything but an alternative phrasing of "it's traditional". Pretty sure sarcasm is more a part of British Identity to me than some random rich family appointed solely by virtue of being squirted out by the right person.

I'm British because I live here and think of here as an extension of home. To me, that's all there really needs to be to British Identity. Everything else is and should be emergent and mutable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should break down the doors right now. I don't have a hatred for the Queen as the person or anything like that. Kinda like her from what I've seen, to be honest. And abolishing the crown is not exactly high on my priorities. It's just if the question were posed to me in regards to the concept itself, should we abolish the crown: yes or no, then I'd vote yes.

This is why I say I'm probably what you'd call a British Republican. My political theory is one that thinks of the Crown as unneeded and better off done away with, but I've not got any real zeal about it :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 23, 2019, 05:24:41 pm

My personal ideal head of state would be one that only exists during periods of large scale social movements to serve as a representative of the social and cultural shifts in the nation. Primarily ceremonial, maybe able to rush legislation through slightly faster, but only able to be elected by a 50% vote of the electorate, abstentions being counted as votes against. If you can't get half the people in a nation to support a political identity, then you don't really have a better representative of the nation than it's parliament.

But I'm also in favour of counting abstentions in elections anyway and a two house system consisting of a direct proportional house and a MMP house with mirrored responsibilities, so it's a pretty far cry from most existing systems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2019, 06:27:49 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 04:40:59 pm

I don't see how claiming it a part of "British Identity" is anything but an alternative phrasing of "it's traditional". Pretty sure sarcasm is more a part of British Identity to me than some random rich family appointed solely by virtue of being squirted out by the right person.

I'm British because I live here and think of here as an extension of home. To me, that's all there really needs to be to British Identity. Everything else is and should be emergent and mutable.

There's more to an identity than place, and despite your reductionism I suspect you know that. 'British' is more than 'I live here.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 23, 2019, 07:07:28 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 23, 2019, 06:27:49 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 04:40:59 pm

I don't see how claiming it a part of "British Identity" is anything but an alternative phrasing of "it's traditional". Pretty sure sarcasm is more a part of British Identity to me than some random rich family appointed solely by virtue of being squirted out by the right person.

I'm British because I live here and think of here as an extension of home. To me, that's all there really needs to be to British Identity. Everything else is and should be emergent and mutable.

There's more to an identity than place, and despite your reductionism I suspect you know that. 'British' is more than 'I live here.'

What does being British mean to you?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 07:28:19 pm

Not even "I live here" really, far more meaningful is "I consider it home". Important distinction. I'm using home in the sense that one would use "I'm going home" vs "I'm going back to the flat" when they first move out of their parents. Was it not a moment, the first time you said out loud, without thinking about it, "I'm going home" to refer to the building you lived in at the moment instead of the building where you grew up? That is what I meant by home.

And no, I really don't know what else there is than that to being British in identity? Anything else you can list could easily not be there and they'd still be British in identity so long as "Britain" is emotionally home.

(Obviously a legally useless concept, totally distinct from your legal nationality and the responsibilities of a state towards you granted by that).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 23, 2019, 08:17:18 pm

Hey I have an idea. Why don't you make *me* the symbol of your britishness? I'm willing to do it for half as much money as those chumps and I will throw in free medical advice for the masses

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2019, 01:17:00 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 07:28:19 pm

Not even "I live here" really, far more meaningful is "I consider it home". Important distinction. I'm using home in the sense that one would use "I'm going home" vs "I'm going back to the flat" when they first move out of their parents. Was it not a moment, the first time you said out loud, without thinking about it, "I'm going home" to refer to the building you lived in at the moment instead of the building where you grew up? That is what I meant by home.

I never had that moment, because I'm always thinking about it. Very difficult not to think about where home is when you stick outside of every ethnic community in every possible candidate for your hometown. It's some serious liminal problems

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 07:28:19 pm

And no, I really don't know what else there is than that to being British in identity? Anything else you can list could easily not be there and they'd still be British in identity so long as "Britain" is emotionally home.

Far too shallow & far too simple a definition. A Briton does not stop being a Briton just because they've made their home abroad, a foreigner does not always become British or even partially British even if it's their home. Becoming British is bloody difficult, or perhaps more accurately, becoming fully British is bloody difficult. Sometimes even generations is not enough

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:59:13 pm

i.e I would rather keep the United Kingdom together but honestly think having a royal family in this day and age is...just kinda daft, really :P Oh sure you can go back and forth on the economics of it one way or the other, but at the end of the day...ain't it just kinda daft? It's the future now, why do we have something as archaic as a monarchy?

Because it keeps the head of state & head of government separate. Ideally this means one branch in the hands of a Monarchy steeped in tradition & authority, the other steeped in the legitimacy of democratic government rule. This avoids the Republican problem where Presidents become awesome rulers in charge of state & government, or where every possible candidate for the head of state & head of government are selected by local plutocratic elites. It helps to keep people around who have no respect for new money

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:59:13 pm

Then again I'm the opposite of a traditionalist in many ways and think if a tradition no longer serves a useful purpose it should be disposed of. So when the only major defence people fall back to is "But it's tradition" and "But wouldn't it be sad if we didn't have one", I just hear the equivalent of white noise xD Throw them out and leave them to only matter in anyway to the few who care. Just like we did with Hot Cross Buns.

I'm more of a conservative, in the sense that I find value in preserving the old simply because it's your inheritance. This value is not just personal, mind you. The French Revolutionaries abandoned their traditional institutions because they weren't "useful," while the British kept their inherited institutions intact. One abrogated their traditions entirely, the other allowed them to evolve with the generations. Both became democracies, but only one became a massive team killing fucktard nation of head loppers, larping about how free and liberal they were whilst they had an Emperor with a public security bureau mass-conscripting the male population to destroy the enemies of the state. Republican constitutional rights are just pieces of paper, while the actual guarantors of their rights are the conventions they form... Now if only there was some kind of constitutional government based on conventions... :P

It's like what Marx said, the desire to abandon everything which makes your people who they are in the rush to become the global, formless proletariat most easily exploited by the bourgeoisie, is the ideology set by the ruling elite in order to strip people from the communities they may use to organise and offer a viable destiny. Sell your civilisation, and for what?

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 23, 2019, 02:59:13 pm

(Explanation: May be just me, but it seems like nobody seems to bother with Hot Cross Buns on Good Friday anymore, except for the odd religious types for whom Good Friday is more than just another bank holiday).

I eat hot cross buns religiously, pun intended - I grew up eating them where they were very cheap and very delicious. I do not know the religious significance though, besides the obvious cross.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 06:22:43 am

Loud Whispers is my spirit animal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

Who said you can only have one home? Just because your current house is your home doesn't mean the house you grew up in stops being your home after all. Just ask the Good Friday Agreement: Being British doesn't stop you also being Irish. Define British then. But if any part of the definition can be removed in a person without them stopping being British, then it isn't a part of the definition.

And who said we need to replace the Royal Family with a Presidency and explicitly written constitution? They don't *use* the power of veto anyway, and if they ever did they'd be chucked out, so why *give* a veto power to anyone when we already have the House of Lords fulfilling that purpose? A big problem America has with their presidency is they gave powers the royalty had already stopped using to a person in a position they actually let use them.

And the desire to artificially preserve 'traditions' and 'heritage' is also very easily exploited, I'd argue more easily and commonly exploited and to greater devastation than anything else in human history, and that this is something to beware of.

I'm not arguing to go around burning down all tradition for the sake of it, but that their comes a point where they should be allowed to adapt or die with grace. When you are explicitly trying to 'preserve' them or stop them from changing or dying then all you're really going to achieve is a bastardization of them that risks coming at the cost of harming others. It's cultural eugenics, with the things implied by the word eugenics being fully intended. Traditions die, it's a part of their nature as memes, and that is good. Trying to mandate or apply explicit and conscious pressure to prevent that death is a dangerous road to walk.

For me, the tradition of monarchy is at that point where I would happily let it die. For others, it may not be. I'm gonna explain my point of view freely on the topic, if others agree that's fine, but like I said I'm not exactly going far out of my way to push for it to happen :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 26, 2019, 07:40:53 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

A big problem America has with their presidency is they gave powers the royalty had already stopped using to a person in a position they actually let use them.

I didn’t know this about my country. I like hearing about what people outside America think about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 26, 2019, 08:16:33 am

I'm very skeptical about the supposed impartiality and freedom from influences of monarchs. I'm basing myself on what I've seen the Spanish royals do and extrapolating to monarchies in general. I will respectfully avoid to comment on the British royal family because they're not my top priority and because  I have  respect for seniors who are venerable yet active (AKA while I'm not impressed by royalty titles, Elizabeth's longevity and social position do impress me a lot; seriously, I think a table talk with all the venerables in politics eg Jimmy Carter, Elizabeth, etc... would be something great to sit in.  It'd have been even better 3 years ago with Castro and Bush Sr sitting in)

In all honesty I find monarchies unacceptable because it means that there is a family that is legally better than you just for being born, that their children will have their life sorted while you and yours scramble by, just by virtue of their surname, that will take positions of power just because of that surname. And it won't be a de facto matter (eg: as with a standard multimillionaire). No, with these guys it's a de jure matter, they're better than you in the eyes of the state. I find this intollerable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2019, 08:24:25 am

I wouldn't mind returning to an elective monarchy, with a new king being elected every 4-5 years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on July 26, 2019, 08:57:58 am

Quote from: scriver on July 26, 2019, 08:24:25 am

I wouldn't mind returning to an elective monarchy, with a new king being elected every 4-5 years.

So... a presidential republic?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 09:00:42 am

I vote for Bran the Broken.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2019, 09:03:21 am

Quote from: Teneb on July 26, 2019, 08:57:58 am

Quote from: scriver on July 26, 2019, 08:24:25 am

I wouldn't mind returning to an elective monarchy, with a new king being elected every 4-5 years.

So... a presidential republic?

No, an elective monarchy. I just said that! ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 26, 2019, 10:37:06 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

Who said you can only have one home?

Some countries make it a particular point that you can't, UK is not one of them

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

Just because your current house is your home doesn't mean the house you grew up in stops being your home after all. Just ask the Good Friday Agreement: Being British doesn't stop you also being Irish. Define British then. But if any part of the definition can be removed in a person without them stopping being British, then it isn't a part of the definition.

I use the word problematic unironically here because British & Irish identity is beyond my ability to parse. Once separate, once the same, once overlapping and once irreconcilable, today I've known many people from ROI or NI for whom it was one or the other, or both. A lot of times, not by choice. It's especially insufficient to measure "home" in simple, personal terms, when the claims of identity are passed from one generation to another. Like a 3rd gen Briton being welcomed as a native to the home of their grandparents in a country they've never seen before. The consequences can be rather dire, if you look at wars where people are still fighting to this day to retake homes neither lived in - but their parents, or their parents, did.

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

And who said we need to replace the Royal Family with a Presidency and explicitly written constitution?

It was a safe assumption that you were not suggesting replacing the Royal Family with another Family, while the abolishment of a constitutional monarchy will lend itself to immediate concerns regarding the constitutional changes involved.

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

They don't *use* the power of veto anyway, and if they ever did they'd be chucked out, so why *give* a veto power to anyone when we already have the House of Lords fulfilling that purpose? A big problem America has with their presidency is they gave powers the royalty had already stopped using to a person in a position they actually let use them.

Because they are not the head of government, they are the head of state. It is not their role to exercise functions of government.

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

And the desire to artificially preserve 'traditions' and 'heritage' is also very easily exploited, I'd argue more easily and commonly exploited and to greater devastation than anything else in human history, and that this is something to beware of.

What do you think a natural preservation of tradition or heritage is? Passing knowledge from one generation is an active effort from one to the next. Mother nature can give us natural heritage in genetics but all else is up to us. The endeavour is human artifice through and through

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

I'm not arguing to go around burning down all tradition for the sake of it, but that their comes a point where they should be allowed to adapt or die with grace. When you are explicitly trying to 'preserve' them or stop them from changing or dying then all you're really going to achieve is a bastardization of them that risks coming at the cost of harming others. It's cultural eugenics, with the things implied by the word eugenics being fully intended. Traditions die, it's a part of their nature as memes, and that is good. Trying to mandate or apply explicit and conscious pressure to prevent that death is a dangerous road to walk.

Allowing it to die is just simple erasure and deletion, bastardization of the tradition IS the adaptation you are praising - it's cultural evolution. Just letting everything die because you'd rather not preserve tradition will result in your society being a cultural dead-end. Doing nothing and teaching nothing will always require less energy than preserving tradition, and even with the intention to keep traditions exactly the same, it is impossible. Even the most fundamentalist Sunni or Catholic sect will not resemble the faith it was even 10 years ago.

*EDIT

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 06:51:35 am

Traditions die, it's a part of their nature as memes, and that is good. Trying to mandate or apply explicit and conscious pressure to prevent that death is a dangerous road to walk.

Traditions die when people stop caring, or are unable to preserve it. Death, imperialism, globalisation, exhaustion and ignorance have all had their toll on the loss of traditions. It's not a good thing, it's just a loss of human memory. We're unable to do anything with loss, any more than we can discuss the ancient traditions of Sumer's parents

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 11:20:33 am

Except in all countries with them, Heads of State have roles they perform, even when the Head of State is elected and separate from Government.

The veto is performed by the US President as a Head of State, not Head of Government (though they are that too). That whole process comes from the veto the monarch has as Head of State. Ours does have such a veto in law, and they just don't ever use it and practically can't do so anyway. That's just daft. So whilst Royal Ascent is required for something to enter law, it's always granted in such a way as that step could be removed entirely with literally bugger all practically changing. When a hydraulic press with a rubber stamp could serve the exact same function as you, you're role is pretty darn pointless.

Traditions exist because they get past down as part of social contract, sure. But what I call artificially preserving them is when people go out of their way to ensure or pressure people to pass or preserve a tradition. It's saying people should be preserving them as a moral act, and to not do so is therefore immoral. That there's an obligation to do so that people must fulfill. Instead of just allowing it to get passed down, changed, or weaned out as the natural result of social osmosis as the world continues to change. And that I object to, and is what I refer to as artificially preserving a tradition.

Just being a tradition by itself doesn't make it worthy of artificial preservation. Documentation? Sure, I'm all for that. It's a sad thing that their are stories and myths that we will never know because everyone who knew them is dead. And it's great when we get to record them before they die. It's also what I think about dead or practically dead languages: documenting them so they can never be forgotten as historical fact and future reference is a worthy endevour; but going out of your way to teach children them just so that people who aren't interested in studying the language keep speaking it for the sake of keeping it alive is pointless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 11:39:46 am

I don't know many traditions which are preserved through pure force. It is like trying to stem the tide of language change - build all the dams you want, the river will flow onwards.

The royal family is not artificially imposed as a tradition -

Quote

While the majority of people in all age groups support Britain having a monarchy, the older Britons are the higher this level of support gets: 57% of 18-24 year olds are monarchists, a figure which rises to 77% among those aged 55 or older. While men and women overwhelmingly support Britain having a monarchy (67% and 70% respectively), men (25%) are more likely than women (17%) to oppose it.

If these statistics were inverted, the royal family might stagger on for a generation. But two? Three? No chance. The river will not be dammed; nor will its course be dictated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 26, 2019, 11:43:23 am

"We do not climb upwards to grasp at Ladder Banana, young one."

"But why not, O elder?"

"Because we don't, dipshit."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 11:44:19 am

Which is why I've said that whilst I think we don't need them or that they serve a purpose anymore, I'm not called for the breaking down the doors. I may have misunderstood, but I've been treating the discussion as to "the nature of tradition as a whole" and "the monarchy" as happening side by side instead of as a single topic.

I don't bother to preserve what is in me a dead tradition I hold no value in, and for me the idea of investing value in the monarchy is such. I'm not going around telling people to kill their love for the monarchy or whatever, just don't expect me to hold the same reverence for them just because I'm British so I apparently have to, nor should I need to pretend that I don't think they shouldn't be kept around just because other people want them around. And that shouldn't make me any less British :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 11:49:21 am

*Shrug*

That which is dead may never die, then. You call it a dead tradition. I call it a changing one. As, to use the royal family as but one in an infinite-seeming list of examples, the traditions change with the times. The only worry I have about traditions of the non-stabby kind is when the linkage to the past is broken and people became apathetic about tradition itself. Once tradition (singular) or tradition (national) is severed, it does not evolve - that is a dead tradition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 11:51:04 am

By dead in that post I meant "dead in me", instead of "dead in general". Sorry, edited to make that more clear.

New traditions are also born though from the mutation and death of old ones. Heck, Welsh only doesn't use a k in it's written language because of printing press limitations. Their are whole fast food businesses built on food that was invented by immigrants trying to create traditional dishes with regional ingredients. Battered Fish and Chips (Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal), Tikka Masala...both are 'British', both came from immigrants to the UK trying to make something from their culture with the ingredients of this region.

It's why I'm not too fussed about multiculturalism or the idea of cultures mixing. You don't get a lack of respect for traditions, you get totally new traditions for people to experience with the history of both cultures. Social osmosis going both ways.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 11:59:39 am

Yes, though there comes a point where "social osmosis" replaces the host tradition. But in so far as it becomes part of the existing tradition, rather than replacing it, that's all part and parcel of the tradition itself evolving. New blood, a la Perrin and Faile.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 12:03:22 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 26, 2019, 11:59:39 am

Yes, though there comes a point where "social osmosis" replaces the host tradition.

I guess I just don't see why that is a problem? A new strain supplanting an old one over time whilst taking on traits from both host and external. I don't think you'll get an external performing a complete replacement without a merging with the host to produce a synthesis (barring extreme situations like military invasions and forceful genocidal conversions, but that would be another form of Cultural Eugenics so very artificial), and I'm pretty sure that process is how the current lot was arrived at in the first place, so why mourn that it won't stop there? :)

The spirit of the history is preserved in the new synthesis, and nowadays we can document the literal history of the priors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 12:32:56 pm

Because it's like the child killing its parent to be born. Certainly we don't begrudge the child its existence - it's quite nice! - but would you then want that child (for the sake of metaphor, a girl) to die in childbirth when it comes her time?

Our tradition influences our values and our perception of self. It makes me who I am. I would rather the world not lose that viewpoint simply for the sake of synthesis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 12:38:03 pm

I guess I view the world very differently then: Our traditions don't make us who we are. Our upbringing and the lessons passed to us influence us sure, but in turn we influence them back. And we have power of choice, and so we need have to have the wisdom to be able to separate ourselves from our histories in order to identity our flaws and to work to improve and be better than our pasts. Those who don't understand the past may be doomed to repeat it, but those who worship the past are doomed by it.

We change the world as much as the world changes us, and the current traditions are an emergent property of that interaction, and so not of value by themselves but part of an ever evolving feedback loop.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 26, 2019, 12:49:53 pm

I don't recall saying I was against change; well do I know the lessons of history, having spent some time studying it. I am against substitution and destruction of a form which renders history meaningless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 12:51:38 pm

Is the Celtic history of England without meaning, just because that culture is gone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 26, 2019, 12:54:56 pm

Dude, Wales is sitting right there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 26, 2019, 12:57:14 pm

Wales is not England.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 01:14:20 pm

He must have seen it in the 30 seconds before I went "oh right, Wales" and edited it xD

Either way, was just trying to make the point that history has value regardless as to whether the beliefs and practices of the people who lived it are active or predominant.

To clarify as well: I'm not saying that traditions can't have value, but that I don't regard being a tradition as a value in itself. And people have no obligation to work to preserve them just for being traditions.

I go to the pub because I enjoy it. I go with friends because we enjoy it. If I made a new friend I'd probably try and take them to the pub. If they enjoy it then we'll probably keep going to the pub. No where in there does "going to the pub" need to be done "because it's traditional" and if I stopped enjoying it I wouldn't keep taking new friends to the pub just "because it's traditional". And if everyone in the country but me stopped enjoying pubs, then they have no obligation to work to keep people going to the pub for the sake of tradition and I'd have no right to go around dragging people into empty pubs, though I could still ask nicely. Ultimately, that there was a tradition of going to the pub is just an emergent property of multiple people enjoying going to the pub.

That is the distinction to me between finding value in a tradition, and finding tradition to be a value.

By all means carry on your traditions*, but don't begrudge others if they no longer find value in your particular set of traditions or have different ones.

* standard disclaimer: so long as they don't infringe the rights of others, duh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Eschar on July 27, 2019, 04:54:36 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 26, 2019, 01:14:20 pm

Either way, was just trying to make the point that history has value regardless as to whether the beliefs and practices of the people who lived it are active or predominant.

- snip -

"Argue nuances of tradition"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 27, 2019, 10:22:58 pm

Sounds like they're treating no-deal Brexit as inevitable (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49141375) despite Johnsons promises to make a deal and fears about him 'forcing'* through no-deal Brexit.

Still a good idea to prepare just in case though since it's only inevitable to the extent that the government allows it to be inevitable.

*I say 'forcing' because there’s the whole prorogung Parliament in order to force no-deal and then there’s letting the clock run out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 27, 2019, 11:54:11 pm

The most bizarre part of the article is - aside from the fact it appears they haven’t actually invested in training more border guards - is that support for the Tories has increased.

I’m hoping that’s because Theresa May stepped down, and not because Boris is at the helm.

Anyway, however much it pains me to say it, Boris is a shrewd politician. He’s been wanting power for so long he’s not going to throw it away so soon by suspending parliament.

This is all just setting things up for the inevitable. They know they’re not getting a deal, they need to make sure it looks like the EU’s fault so they can win the election which is sure to follow.

Theresa May tried to do it, but she’s rubbish so it was plainly obvious that was what she was doing; perhaps this lot can do it better.

Priti Patel has already made Boris look like a buffoon by failing to follow the ministerial code though, which is exactly why she had to step down from her previous role as international development minister in 2017, so they’re not really off to the best start there...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 28, 2019, 12:21:40 am

I was referencing the fears that some had which Johnson might do and I was trying to make a distinction between a more active forcing and a more passive (or maybe passive-aggressive) forcing. Running out the clock is probably the most he can do as far as forcing anyway.

As I said though, it’s only as inevitable as the government allows it to be. Definitely won’t stop Labor and others from trying their hardest to stop a no-deal Brexit from happening.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on July 29, 2019, 06:19:28 pm

Man, that Brexit stuff is so amazing to watch. It's like a trainwreck in slow motion. Beautiful.

I mean it, it's not always that you can take the time to appreciate it not just the cause and result like that, but also indulge in the feeling of inevitable horror during the development of catastrophe. Breathtaking, really.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 29, 2019, 06:37:34 pm

It’ll all be ending soon.

Well, after the politicians come back from their Summer holiday, ‘cause that’s seriously wtf Summer holidays now you morons maybe it would be a good time to suspend parliamentary recesses you idiots.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2019, 06:53:02 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on July 29, 2019, 06:19:28 pm

Man, that Brexit stuff is so amazing to watch. It's like a trainwreck in slow motion. Beautiful.

I mean it, it's not always that you can take the time to appreciate it not just the cause and result like that, but also indulge in the feeling of inevitable horror during the development of catastrophe. Breathtaking, really.

Yea, I read an article saying that they wouldn't budge on no-deal until the EU dropped the NI border backstop and reopened for negotiation, which they aren't going to do. Then a diplomat mentioned there said that EU leaders (or at least their diplomats) need to get into contact with Johnson and his team to clarify what they really want vs what's for domestic consumption.

However, what they really want is Brexit and as per Theresa May, Brexit is Brexit, whatever Brexit means. It's like saying x=x without defining x.

Quote from: hector13 on July 29, 2019, 06:37:34 pm

It’ll all be ending soon.

Well, after the politicians come back from their Summer holiday, ‘cause that’s seriously wtf Summer holidays now you morons maybe it would be a good time to suspend parliamentary recesses you idiots.

You're talking about hardcore Brexiteers here who would rather go for no-deal Brexit than use the plan that currently exists. Besides, they can't actually start voting on the stuff until Johnson feels he is ready to submit it to Parliament and have them vote on it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 04:38:25 pm

Nothing interesting going on in Europe? The Italian government is falling apart (because the two right wing parties sharing a coalition are having a falling out over a railway tunnel, though that may be oversimplifying it) with  and Boris Johnson [url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/09/is-boris-johnson-planning-an-election]is making moves (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49287219Salvini calling for a snap election[/url) that look like planning for a snap election. On the 'only way to stop a no-deal Brexit' bit in there, isn't it going to require the EU to either give their okay to further delay it or say 'No, this is bullshit.'? As desperate as some are to stop a no-deal Brexit, it's going to require convincing the EU to stop the clock. Not sure if there is a way to trigger some procedural thing that would automatically stop the clock, but as far as I know, the EU is really the only one that can stop or extend the clock.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 09, 2019, 05:23:01 pm

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, there is one way to immediately and unilaterally stop the clock on a no-deal self-own. Just one, and no other option without EU input.

It's called "revoke article 50" :P

E: That said, bojo seems to be planning to have that after no-deal shits all over the rug. Basically fuck everything, then laugh at everyone and go crawl in some hole to hide. Which sounds very in character, I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 05:46:51 pm

How do you even revoke article 50 after exit because it won't exist for them because they're no longer in the EU? Unless you meant the snap election, yeah, looks like he's planning to do that, but it theoretically could happen anytime.

Yes, revoking article 50 is an option, but they're refusing to consider it as an option. Who knows what may happen though at the 11th hour as no-deal Brexit ticks closer and louder and they become more frenzied and desperate. It happening on Halloween seems oddly appropriate, somehow.

Also, with all the talk of Britain and Ireland and the EU preparing for no-deal Brexit, I can't help but wonder if the US may need to prepare in some way. Then again, not sure what we would need to do outside of letting individual companies prepare as needed and just keeping an eye on the ball so as to be ready to deal with things that need to be dealt with. Wouldn't be suprised if the Trump Adminstration got caught flatfooted though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 09, 2019, 06:09:15 pm

The US is too busy fueling a worldwide recession to prepare for Brexit. And mind my word: Brexit will be the spark that triggers the former.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 06:30:39 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 09, 2019, 06:09:15 pm

The US is too busy fueling a worldwide recession to prepare for Brexit. And mind my word: Brexit will be the spark that triggers the former.

Quote from: Ispil on August 09, 2019, 06:12:06 pm

Well, something has to. All this fuss of "we're nearing a recession but maybe not but this sign points to yes however..." annoys the hell out of me. Let's just get this thing over with already.

Even if it doesn't, Brexit could very well set the stage for another trigger that DOES send things into a recession. It's rarely a single cause but a whole constellation of cause and effects.

For all of Trumps focus to not screw up the economy (in the way he interprets it) and thus win* in 2020 on it, it's ironic in a way that it'll come from something utterly beyond his control. Not that Presidents have much direct control of the economy in the first place.

*History is mostly against him winning during a recession, but it's not impossible either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on August 09, 2019, 07:06:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 05:46:51 pm

Wouldn't be suprised if the Trump Adminstration got caught flatfooted though.

I'd be suprised if he wasn't caught flatfooted

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 13, 2019, 10:28:29 am

Quote from: scourge728 on August 09, 2019, 07:06:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 05:46:51 pm

Wouldn't be suprised if the Trump Adminstration got caught flatfooted though.

I'd be suprised if he wasn't caught flatfooted

He doesn't care about the southern hemisphere, and isn't good at geography.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 13, 2019, 12:28:48 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on August 09, 2019, 07:06:47 pm

Quote from: smjjames on August 09, 2019, 05:46:51 pm

Wouldn't be suprised if the Trump Adminstration got caught flatfooted though.

I'd be suprised if he wasn't caught flatfooted

His class kit, in addition to providing multiple rages/day, states that he can't be caught flat-footed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Yoink on August 19, 2019, 08:05:09 pm

Am I trippin', or does Boyko Borisov look like a partially-melted George Clooney?   

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on August 19, 2019, 10:26:40 pm

the unholy spawn of George Clooney and John Goodman

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 22, 2019, 03:28:11 pm

https://www.facebook.com/741847772642488/videos/2403045483317881/

Ah, Northern Ireland.

Sorry about the FB link, but they don't exactly post this stuff on the BBC XD

Edited-in-disclaimer: Link contains dead body in coffin and firearms. Best not to open in work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 22, 2019, 06:32:42 pm

The problem with facebook links is that it worries me that facebook will think I like watching weird shit and will further bombard me with weird shit. And I will directly blame you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 22, 2019, 06:35:12 pm

Yes, actually, that's a very good point. I'll add a disclaimer to the post.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 25, 2019, 12:46:32 pm

Cross-postin’, ‘cause it belongs here more than there:

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 25, 2019, 10:58:02 am

This is somewhat tangential, but I found it amusing to read:

http://www.ox.ac.uk/Research/controlling-immigration-good-democracy

Modus morons indeed.

Quote from: hector13 on August 25, 2019, 12:39:46 pm

For an article entitled “controlling immigrants is good for democracy” one would expect an article that actually explains how controlling immigrants is good for democracy. He doesn’t even do that in the five paragraphs he wrote on democracy and immigration, at the very end of the article.

It was an interesting enough read, if a little shaky in the logic department.

What sort of institutional change are you expecting, when everything else remains the same? The same parties, controlled by the same people, with the same electorate?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 25, 2019, 12:51:53 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 25, 2019, 09:34:53 am

Yep. Britain aims for the long term, but Remainers can't stop fixating on the short term. Personally I see it as a case of differing priorities, very (extremely) loosely divided between those who value economic stability and those who favour institutional change and reform. Of course, it is much easier to label the last as "the ignorant and deluded"  ::)

Quote

What the fuck's happened to political discourse? Or has it always been this shit and my entire life has just been a series of steadily unfolding revelations as to how fucking stupid and malicious humanity is?

Frankly, people like you have. Judgmental and completely, aye unassailably, convinced of your utter correctness. Another side disagrees with me? They're stupid! Ignorant! Misled! Anything other than simply being possessed of differing values and political ideas!

I'm not saying that the other side disagrees with me, QED they're morons (There is a bit of irony in that I never stated that and you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I am), what I'm saying is that every time a report comes out, no matter who it's from whether it's the government, EU, independent think-tanks or even pro-leave or no-deal politicians, you get people coming out of the woodwork screaming about how it's all made up and it's all bullshit and how Britain will be stronger outside the EU etc. etc. when pretty much everything *apart* from people that are just making crap up on the spot (And fairly often they'll accidentally leak something that indicates that they were blatantly lying) indicate that it's going to be bad. Sure, maybe you want to change the institutions or whatever, that's acceptable, I understand that one even if I disagree with it, but what I straight up don't get is the deluded people that pretend (Or are so deluded they straight up believe) that the world is presently out to get them and that their views are 100% in the right regardless of who is telling them it isn't. They're the same kind of people that could probably bear witness to evolution in action then still scream about how evolution doesn't exist and it's all a conspiracy made up by scientists. It's straight up delusion! (And some bots, at least on social media)

I mean, I remember seeing that one thing where a guy was arguing with protestors that sincerely believed that the UK was just inherently better than the EU countries with no backing it up. The guy said "Right, so what you're saying is that the UK is somehow intrinsically better than the UK?" and was met with them saying that he'd finally got it.


EDIT: Actually, re-looking at my post I see how you could easily think that I was going on about all leavers. Didn't actually mean it that way, I'm just exasperated at the situation and it's rather clouding my ability to look at my own posts from a point of view other than my own, apologies there.

EDIT2: Thinking about it, it's probably an idea to refrain from posting about anything other than generic rants when I'm feeling like this. I'm likely to get into this situation again where I say something in a poor way and wind up conveying the wrong thing. Exasperation just seems to screw with my ability to word good.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 25, 2019, 10:07:03 pm

It'll be over soon anyway, one way or another. Unless Johnson somehow convinces* the EU to delay the date even further, it'll either be leave with some sort of deal by or on October 31st or it all ends with a Brexit no-deal crashthrough at 11:59:59 on October 31st.

*Well, I suppose if a general election is triggered, it might procedurally hit the pause button, I'm not sure if that would happen then or if the EU still has to okay a further delay. Though I can see them easily going 'This is BS, no way.' since they are certainly just as tired of it getting kicked down the road as everybody else in Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 25, 2019, 10:34:40 pm

Boris won’t cave. He suffers, ostensibly, from the delusion that Britain is somehow Great, and has any sort of political capital to invest in getting the EU to capitulate.

He knows the EU won’t renegotiate unless he can come up with a reasonable alternative, which he does not have, else he would have presented it already. Now he’s trying to make it look like the inevitable no-deal is all the EU’s fault.

Whether or not the parliament can come up with something to delay or halt this utter mess, though, is the big question. If the referendum two years ago was “do you want to see a huge political mess for two years, two changes of government because the leadership are liars, cowards, and incompetents, resulting in nothing actually getting done and we then leave wholly under-prepared and looking like mugs, or remain?” We certainly wouldn’t find ourselves in this mess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on August 25, 2019, 11:33:29 pm

You would think that the people demanding the exit would have been thrilled at the prospects of getting concessions in the exit process, and jumped at the early offers, back when the EU was more sympathetic to the UK and its popular election result.

But now?  After figuratively dragging their heels, kicking, screaming, and being completely incapable of anything but inaction for.... how long now?...  They expect the EU to still be sympathetic toward them?  After getting gawd only knows how many excuses, delay tactics, and misc other crazy going on?


I'm really quite surprised the EU hasnt told the UK to go get stuffed, and to enjoy its new broken economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on August 25, 2019, 11:45:57 pm

They pretty much have, what with the whole “the deal you have is the deal you’ll get” rhetoric. Then again, they agreed the deal, and it’s the UK that wants to change it and expects the EU to actually come up with the details.

Perhaps you’re just not used to diplomatic talk when you have the Orange toddler in the White House, throwing a tantrum whenever someone makes even a hint of a critical remark? :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2019, 02:07:01 am

Quote from: wierd on August 25, 2019, 11:33:29 pm

You would think that the people demanding the exit would have been thrilled at the prospects of getting concessions in the exit process, and jumped at the early offers, back when the EU was more sympathetic to the UK and its popular election result.

The EU was never sympathetic to the UK. They've been out to make an example of them from the start, which is also with a negotiations never went anywhere to begin with. Can't negotiate with the diplomatic equivalent of a "no u".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 26, 2019, 05:42:48 am

Quote from: scriver on August 26, 2019, 02:07:01 am

Quote from: wierd on August 25, 2019, 11:33:29 pm

You would think that the people demanding the exit would have been thrilled at the prospects of getting concessions in the exit process, and jumped at the early offers, back when the EU was more sympathetic to the UK and its popular election result.

The EU was never sympathetic to the UK. They've been out to make an example of them from the start, which is also with a negotiations never went anywhere to begin with. Can't negotiate with the diplomatic equivalent of a "no u".

Indeed. People make the mistake of thinking the EU's relationship towards its component states is patriarchal, somehow familial. To split from it is to leave a family, with all the emotion that entails.

It's more like a business merger. You leaving will be tabulated in figures and loss of power. There is no emotional "the child is moving out!" rhetoric. It is "we are losing an asset! Let's make sure we discourage that from happening again!"

Sympathy does not come into business, nor the running of states on a global scale. Both Britain and the EU have tried to make the mess look like the others' fault. The truth is that the leading parties of both have dug their heels in and had to be pulled kicking and screaming to the negotiation table.

Quote from: Great Order on August 25, 2019, 12:51:53 pm

EDIT: Actually, re-looking at my post I see how you could easily think that I was going on about all leavers. Didn't actually mean it that way, I'm just exasperated at the situation and it's rather clouding my ability to look at my own posts from a point of view other than my own, apologies there.

EDIT2: Thinking about it, it's probably an idea to refrain from posting about anything other than generic rants when I'm feeling like this. I'm likely to get into this situation again where I say something in a poor way and wind up conveying the wrong thing. Exasperation just seems to screw with my ability to word good.

Hey, no problem. I've posted some very shaky things myself in the past  ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 27, 2019, 03:23:31 am

I'm fairly certain that the currently governing conservative parties in Norway don't really understand how doctors and medical services work.

A couple years ago:

Government: "People have made their voices heard! The waiting times for getting a doctor's appointment are unacceptable! But never fear, we shall fix this!"

Doctors: "Oh, are we getting more people? Are you finally going to expand our medical centers so we can handle everyone?"

Gov: "We will now enforce a maximum limit to how many days can be between calling to make an appointment and the day of the appointment! If a doctor exceeds this limit, they will be punished!"

Docs: "...you what?"


Recently:

Docs: "The medical system is in a crisis. General practitioners are heavily overworked and are not getting the support and facilities they need in order to start their practices. 57% of GPs have stated that they've considered quitting due to their stressed working conditions, with each individual being assigned thousands of patients while new doctors are turned away by the public system and expected to start private practices with no startup. This needs to be addressed, or the foundation of our public health system will collapse."

Gov: "Have no fear, we are here! We will solve this problem!"

Docs: "Thank you!"

Gov: "We will look into forcing GP offices to stay open longer, so that patients can receive appointments and treatment later than 4 PM on weekdays, and also be open on weekends!"

Docs: "...you fucking what?!"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on August 27, 2019, 03:33:12 am

Well, at least you guys get THAT much out of government...

Here in the states, its all (don's snidely whiplash hat and false mustache) "Yes-- Yes! There's a worker shortage! Now the AMA members will receive EVEN MOAR money in the overpriced american healthcare system! Heheheheh! Just wait until my evil, diabolical partners in the health insurance industry learn that they can refuse even more paying members! Naturally, those fools in government would never deign to intervene, what with their love affair with Laissaze-Faire capitalism! They think the system will SORT ITSELF!! hehehehehe! Those poor suckers with healthcare problems have no choice but to pay the exorbitant fees!"


I *AM* kinda curious what is causing your healthcare worker shortage though.  Here in the states, it's a combination of "Seriously? Tuition went up *AGAIN!?*" meets face first into the oncomming train of "AMA refuses to sponsor more residents to increase number of doctors", resulting in BOTH fewer people entering education needed to satisfy the need, and of those that DO, fewer actually make it into being doctors, all the while government pretends everything is fine, ostritch style.  What's causing your worker shortage?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 27, 2019, 03:55:53 am

So far as I've understood it, the public sector just doesn't want to invest the money on expanding current centers or building new centers in order to accommodate more doctors... So fresh new doctors can either twiddle their thumbs waiting for a spot to open up once one of the currently-employed docs dies or retires, or they can attempt to establish themselves as a respected private practice while footing the bill for location, equipment, and peripheral employment themselves.

And additionally, even if you do manage to beat the odds and establish yourself, as a self-employed individual you don't get the same rights and benefits as someone in a full-time position working for a larger organization. Since, after all, you're providing for yourself... So you don't need the state to ensure that you're being adequately provided for.


So it's not that there's a worker shortage, there's a worker capacity shortage. So the current crop of fully educated GPs is either heavily overworked and stressed out, or they're unemployed/bankrupt. Which, y'know, doesn't exactly make that specialization very attractive to new students, so this might very well end up resulting in an actual worker shortage once the old crop starts really falling apart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 27, 2019, 04:37:05 am

TBH family medicine is not a very attractive speciality to begin with. Even in places where GPs actually have weight within the system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 27, 2019, 11:16:21 am

Quote from: Kagus on August 27, 2019, 03:23:31 am

I'm fairly certain that the currently governing conservative parties in Norway don't really understand how doctors and medical services work.

A couple years ago:

Government: "People have made their voices heard! The waiting times for getting a doctor's appointment are unacceptable! But never fear, we shall fix this!"

Doctors: "Oh, are we getting more people? Are you finally going to expand our medical centers so we can handle everyone?"

Gov: "We will now enforce a maximum limit to how many days can be between calling to make an appointment and the day of the appointment! If a doctor exceeds this limit, they will be punished!"

Docs: "...you what?"


Recently:

Docs: "The medical system is in a crisis. General practitioners are heavily overworked and are not getting the support and facilities they need in order to start their practices. 57% of GPs have stated that they've considered quitting due to their stressed working conditions, with each individual being assigned thousands of patients while new doctors are turned away by the public system and expected to start private practices with no startup. This needs to be addressed, or the foundation of our public health system will collapse."

Gov: "Have no fear, we are here! We will solve this problem!"

Docs: "Thank you!"

Gov: "We will look into forcing GP offices to stay open longer, so that patients can receive appointments and treatment later than 4 PM on weekdays, and also be open on weekends!"

Docs: "...you fucking what?!"

Now I'm not going to say they're taking money from the private healthcare industry to intentionally ruin the NHS, but I will say that's exactly how you would go about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on August 27, 2019, 01:31:46 pm

Quote from: Iduno on August 27, 2019, 11:16:21 am

Now I'm not going to say they're taking money from the private healthcare industry to intentionally ruin the NHS, but I will say that's exactly how you would go about it.

What?! The party that's dismantled the public rail system and sold it off piecemeal to various private firms that each run a separate aspect of the whole because "competition provides better services at better prices" even though each company is effectively a monopoly due to the nature of the service?

How could you accuse them of such a thing!?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on August 28, 2019, 05:20:52 am

Strap on your seatbelts and hold onto your hats, it's a wild ride ahead as Boris asks the Queen to suspend parliament to just a fortnight and change before the Brexit Date. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 28, 2019, 08:07:37 am

Didn’t some here say that it would be political suicide for Johnson to do that as he’s wanted to be PM for a long time? I’m surprised he went through with that move. Though it’s not as severe as I suspected it might be.

It doesn’t absolutely guarantee a no-deal Brexit crash through, but it certainly makes it a heck of a lot more likely. Plus it throws Brexit right into the Queens lap where it’s the last place she’d like it to be.

And, the Queen accepts the prorogue (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49495567?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5d6688b2909dd0067b21adbb%26Queen%20accepts%20request%20to%20suspend%20Parliament%262019-08-28T14%3A00%3A36.425Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:29a88661-25bf-4ebd-a6fc-2fba596cb449&pinned_post_asset_id=5d6688b2909dd0067b21adbb&pinned_post_type=share), why did I think she might put up a fight when she ain't gonna change her ways? *facedesks*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 09:19:17 am

Every time I look at what's going on with the UK for the last few years, I come out of it with the impression, 'Wow, y'all are fucked." Every time. Clownshoe shit makes some of what's going on stateside look better in comparison, and holy hell is that a bar to pass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 09:29:10 am

So... we're screwed, we're clownshoe idiots, and America is likely better than us we've set the bar so low?

Em......... thanks?  :o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 09:50:41 am

You're pretty definitely screwed, your government is apparently falling over itself to do clownshoes stupid shit, and its nonsense is actually making some of the US gov't's nonsense look less terrible in comparison, yes. Unless you're actually bojo or a physical incarnation of the collective incompetence of the UK's government, that hopefully doesn't include you, personally. You're just collateral damage, just like most of the UK's population is looking to end up like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 10:43:05 am

The issue is more like... well, imagine the government is my parents. They've been handling my life pretty shoddily. My siblings can say that our parents are being asses.

You, a kid with different parents, then come and say that my parents are so darn horrible they actually make you feel better about your own parents.

Kinda a lame move tbh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 28, 2019, 11:05:58 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 28, 2019, 10:43:05 am

The issue is more like... well, imagine the government is my parents. They've been handling my life pretty shoddily. My siblings can say that our parents are being asses.

You, a kid with different parents, then come and say that my parents are so darn horrible they actually make you feel better about your own parents.

Kinda a lame move tbh.

What's lame is the 'only nationals of X can criticise the government of X' line of passive-aggressive defence you're erecting here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on August 28, 2019, 11:07:12 am

Kinda, but on the other hand, going "Damn, and I thought my parents were bad.."  where one of my parrents is a crack whore who's in it mostly for the sex, and the other is a fall down drunk who hates his marriage, it kinda DOES say something about how healthy your home-life is.

I think that was kinda the point here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 28, 2019, 11:08:12 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 28, 2019, 09:29:10 am

So... we're screwed, we're clownshoe idiots, and America is likely better than us we've set the bar so low?

Em......... thanks?  :o

To be fair, the US's dipshit is so obviously a dipshit, his own party occasionally makes a show of fighting against him. We're all fucked, one government is just better at pretending we aren't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on August 28, 2019, 11:13:39 am

Really, we should all be bonding over the shared experience of how horrible our homelives are...  er--- How horrible our governments treat their citizens, and their mandates to govern correctly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 11:27:32 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on August 28, 2019, 11:05:58 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 28, 2019, 10:43:05 am

The issue is more like... well, imagine the government is my parents. They've been handling my life pretty shoddily. My siblings can say that our parents are being asses.

You, a kid with different parents, then come and say that my parents are so darn horrible they actually make you feel better about your own parents.

Kinda a lame move tbh.

What's lame is the 'only nationals of X can criticise the government of X' line of passive-aggressive defence you're erecting here.

Oh, I'm not saying you can't criticise the British government if you're not British. Go ahead.

I'm saying there are plenty of better ways to do so than saying "wow you're all screwed and we're actually better than you."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 28, 2019, 12:37:56 pm

Quote from: wierd on August 28, 2019, 11:13:39 am

Really, we should all be bonding over the shared experience of how horrible our homelives are...  er--- How horrible our governments treat their citizens, and their mandates to govern correctly.

Either one will work. The hard part is determining which is less of a trainwreck. One obviously has more large-scale effects, but ...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 12:45:23 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 28, 2019, 11:27:32 am

I'm saying there are plenty of better ways to do so than saying "wow you're all screwed and we're actually better than you."

"You're making some of our shit look less bad" doesn't actually translate into "and we're actually better than you", but okay.

You are screwed, though. Not really any getting out of that, at this point. Even if you go least-damaging and revoke A50, the resulting domestic political shitshow will be a mess and a half. Everything else has worse economic repercussions (for more or less everyone, UK probably most of all) and a similar polis kerfuffle. So, y'know. Screwed. It's been a while since the UK had a way out of this that didn't leave them pretty fucked.

Basically telling parliament to go home for most of the time y'all have left until one of the most major deadlines the UK's faced in my lifetime isn't exactly going to help, though :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on August 28, 2019, 12:53:14 pm

I think this would have been avoided had parliamentary Kant accepted the deal Teresa May worked on with the EU, though I am an American so I don’t know as much as a UK citizen would about all of this. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I do not know everything. This was just thoughts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 01:03:12 pm

So... I see that the "Take back democracy" idea had a line in fine print saying "So we could remove it ourselves"


This is the kind of thing I like the EU for. To an extent it protects us from the worst deprivations of our own utterly untrustworthy political class.

Some ~50% of leave and conservative supporters actively support this, according to a snap poll. Which rather confirms to me that a lot of people really don't give two shits about democracy, they're more concerned about their side winning. They'd literally support the Nazis (not a comparison I usually make) if their views happened to align, the fucksticks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on August 28, 2019, 01:15:24 pm

Yeah, remember when Sweden had this anti-democratic system in which every document handled by the state becomes publicly available and catalogued and then the EU protected us from that by making us change our unjust system? That's the kind of thing that makes me love the EU

Quote from: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 12:45:23 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on August 28, 2019, 11:27:32 am

I'm saying there are plenty of better ways to do so than saying "wow you're all screwed and we're actually better than you."

"You're making some of our shit look less bad" doesn't actually translate into "and we're actually better than you", but okay.

You are screwed, though. Not really any getting out of that, at this point. Even if you go least-damaging and revoke A50, the resulting domestic political shitshow will be a mess and a half. Everything else has worse economic repercussions (for more or less everyone, UK probably most of all) and a similar polis kerfuffle. So, y'know. Screwed. It's been a while since the UK had a way out of this that didn't leave them pretty fucked.

Basically telling parliament to go home for most of the time y'all have left until one of the most major deadlines the UK's faced in my lifetime isn't exactly going to help, though :P

The contentious part is the one where you're being a smug prick

But you know, I'm not one to speak ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 01:19:30 pm

Quote from: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 12:45:23 pm

You are screwed, though. Not really any getting out of that, at this point. Even if you go least-damaging and revoke A50, the resulting domestic political shitshow will be a mess and a half. Everything else has worse economic repercussions (for more or less everyone, UK probably most of all) and a similar polis kerfuffle. So, y'know. Screwed. It's been a while since the UK had a way out of this that didn't leave them pretty fucked.

Basically telling parliament to go home for most of the time y'all have left until one of the most major deadlines the UK's faced in my lifetime isn't exactly going to help, though :P

*Shrug*

I'll give you a firm "maybe."

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 01:03:12 pm

So... I see that the "Take back democracy" idea had a line in fine print saying "So we could remove it ourselves"


This is the kind of thing I like the EU for. To an extent it protects us from the worst deprivations of our own utterly untrustworthy political class.

Some ~50% of leave and conservative supporters actively support this, according to a snap poll. Which rather confirms to me that a lot of people really don't give two shits about democracy, they're more concerned about their side winning. They'd literally support the Nazis (not a comparison I usually make) if their views happened to align, the fucksticks.

Being screwed over by our own political elite rather than the one in Brussels is our sovereign right, though! And it's kinda funny thinking of the EU as being a force for moral good in politics XD

Boris' actions are actually an interesting way of viewing consequentialism and what Machiavelli coined as "the ends justifies the means." Suspend a democratic institution to ensure more democracy in future? Sure!

Personally I've never liked consequentialism. Kant gives a slightly better, though still flawed, approach - intent, rather than result, is what counts.

Boris' shenanigans have yet to reach May Day levels, but that boyo had better watch himself. I suspect he's trying to buy himself time to straighten things out without Parliament simultaneously egging him on and tripping him up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 01:26:44 pm

The EU pulls everything towards their level. In Sweden that might have made it worse, but the UK's politicians are about as trustworthy as a starved dog being told not to eat a sausage that's been left on the floor so they've, as I said, stopped our worst deprivations. Now we've got little dictator wannabes like Johnson in power actively going against democracy because it's only good when you can steamroll over other views.


And yes, the EU isn't flawless Dwarfy, but I'd rather take that over what we have. We're in the midst of what's best described as anti-democratic lunacy and the best response is "Yeah well the EU isn't really that good"?


And if you're seriously pulling the "The ends justify the means (or the intended means)" card, you've lost the argument. That can be used for anything, and God knows how many atrocities have been perpetuated under that banner. In fact, it gets worse when you go into intent justifies the means. If that's the case then Mao is a veritable hero for starving China since he intended well by accidentally inducing a major famine then covering it up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on August 28, 2019, 01:36:36 pm

Quote from: scriver on August 28, 2019, 01:15:24 pm

The contentious part is the one where you're being a smug prick

If it's coming across like that, it's not intentional. Smugness ain't what that mess is causing me to feel, it's something between disbelief and muted horror. S'like watching a train wreck knowing the shrapnel is going to hit you along with everyone immediately involved :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 28, 2019, 01:40:01 pm

On the BBC liveblog (which concluded a while ago I think) I saw someone making the argument that it's been the longest government session ever (or somesuch) and that it's needed to reset things so that they can get back to regular order. However, I thought 'Parliaments' (like how ###th Congress is used for every two year block here) spanned between each general election, though the snap elections in between probably screwed with things. Besides, if it really was meant as symbolic, why not do a more symbolic length of time like a week or something right at the end of summer break.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 01:43:18 pm

Quote

And if you're seriously pulling the "The ends justify the means (or the intended means)" card, you've lost the argument. That can be used for anything, and God knows how many atrocities have been perpetuated under that banner. In fact, it gets worse when you go into intent justifies the means. If that's the case then Mao is a veritable hero for starving China since he intended well by accidentally inducing a major famine then covering it up.

Oh, certainly. I hate consequentialism and favour intent over it. But I also don't judge morality by intent alone. I think that in the end it is a balance which the individual must strike him-or-her self.

Quote

The EU pulls everything towards their level. In Sweden that might have made it worse, but the UK's politicians are about as trustworthy as a starved dog being told not to eat a sausage that's been left on the floor so they've, as I said, stopped our worst deprivations. Now we've got little dictator wannabes like Johnson in power actively going against democracy because it's only good when you can steamroll over other views.

I think you're being somewhat harsh. The political class is largely the same everywhere, though admittedly with slight variations depending on culture. Also, I doubt Johnson wants to be a dictator. I get the impression he's being politically expedient and sees it as a way to buy himself two weeks' breathing room. It's a break in which he can develop and propose his own, rather than Mays', legislative plans to parliament.

Quote

And yes, the EU isn't flawless Dwarfy, but I'd rather take that over what we have. We're in the midst of what's best described as anti-democratic lunacy and the best response is "Yeah well the EU isn't really that good"?

Yes, the EU isn't flawless - and neither is Westminster. I just feel like you've given up on our local democratic process (one which you can help tailor to the nation) before it's had a chance to properly exist after 50 odd years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:10:36 pm

Breathing room would be suspending parliament but letting them come into session again before we leave. This isn't breathing room. This is him choking parliament. They can either kick him to get him off, or not and black out, by which point it's all over.


And maybe I am being harsh, but can you blame me? We've got Farage, who lies and dogwhistles constantly. Boris, who's positions seem to be based on "What can get me power?". Jeremy, who has all the political nouse of a doorknob. Lib Dems, who the fuck even knows at this point, all I know is they're a tainted brand because during the coalition the Tories managed to get everything blamed on them. ChUK wasn't killed, it was a fucking miscarriage. Conservatives are pretty much the party of "Fuck yours, got mine", Labour's currently the party of unworkable solutions and negligent harm. UKIP's the BNP part II: Racism boogaloo. Brexit party is "UKIP became a tainted brand so we bailed but we're actually the same". Basically everyone else is unelectable.


We've been given politicians that are at best morons, and at worst actively malicious. Of course I've got no fucking faith.


I'm also feeling very, very pissed off at Boris's seeming hatred of democracy. As I said in the other thread, he seems to be of the opinion that steamrolling the opposition is the point of it, and if you can't do that then clearly it's failing.

EDIT: Also, Johnson just handed Scotland a veritable fucking arsenal in the independence debate, so the Conservatives have no fucking right to claim they're unionist at this point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:21:08 pm

So the best option is to say "Right, democracy's useless!" and guarantee economic and political issues well into the future, and quite probably move the UK to being just the K?

It also sets a very, VERY dangerous precedent. Unless this ability is removed by law, it's basically saying that the PM can, whenever they want to, suspend parliament to get their own way. And believe it or not, I'm actively opposed to that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 02:25:42 pm

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:10:36 pm

Breathing room would be suspending parliament but letting them come into session again before we leave. This isn't breathing room. This is him choking parliament. They can either kick him to get him off, or not and black out, by which point it's all over.

And maybe I am being harsh, but can you blame me? We've got Farage, who lies and dogwhistles constantly. Boris, who's positions seem to be based on "What can get me power?". Jeremy, who has all the political nouse of a doorknob. Lib Dems, who the fuck even knows at this point, all I know is they're a tainted brand because during the coalition the Tories managed to get everything blamed on them. ChUK wasn't killed, it was a fucking miscarriage. Conservatives are pretty much the party of "Fuck yours, got mine", Labour's currently the party of unworkable solutions and negligent harm. UKIP's the BNP part II: Racism boogaloo. Brexit party is "UKIP became a tainted brand so we bailed but we're actually the same". Basically everyone else is unelectable.

We've been given politicians that are at best morons, and at worst actively malicious. Of course I've got no fucking faith.

I'm also feeling very, very pissed off at Boris's seeming hatred of democracy. As I said in the other thread, he seems to be of the opinion that steamrolling the opposition is the point of it, and if you can't do that then clearly it's failing.

We leave on the 31st October. Prorogation lasts until the 14th. It's not a case of "Kick him out or blackout." I have no doubt the opposition will use the time to coalesce and think through their tactics just as he is.

As for calling various non-racist parties racist, I can't even be bothered arguing. I'm guessing I won't change your mind.

As for moronic or malicious politicians, I don't quite agree. But I will say that however good or bad the politicians are, they are no better or worse than those in Europe. They're just the ones we can hold to account.

Quote from: Ispil on August 28, 2019, 02:17:11 pm

Honestly, from an outsider's point of view... what else could he do? There is no deal that the current Parliament will agree to. Not a single one. Anything other than the current deal on the table won't be agreed to by the EU, and Parliament already turned that one down. So the options are... what, exactly? No deal? They turned that one down too. Backpedal? That was also turned down.

Literally every option whatsoever was turned down.

Hence why it's an interesting moral question! Consequentialism, man. *Drags on weed-cigarette* (Fairly certain there's a better word for that....)

Edit: Oh! Oh! Joint!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 28, 2019, 02:30:02 pm

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:21:08 pm

So the best option is to say "Right, democracy's useless!" and guarantee economic and political issues well into the future, and quite probably move the UK to being just the K?

It also sets a very, VERY dangerous precedent. Unless this ability is removed by law, it's basically saying that the PM can, whenever they want to, suspend parliament to get their own way. And believe it or not, I'm actively opposed to that.

Wouldn't that involve removing the prorogue ability from the Queen? The problem is that I read somewhere (BBC I think) that the Queen can't be challenged legally for the proroguing and I don't think the PM can prorogue the government themselves without the King/Queens say. Or rather, they can, it'd just be a hell of a coup to do that action.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:37:45 pm

If you let it run on for a bit longer, the idea of a second referendum would become more palatable to both MPs and the public. And honestly, a second referendum would be the only thing that can get us out of this mess without devolving into a complete shitstorm and/or constitutional crisis. Allow an STV, place down the options of no deal, an already worked upon and proposed deal (sticking it on a referendum's more likely to get the MPs to agree to it, failing that, a generic "leave with a deal" option), and remain (And if anyone here is about to complain about how that gives remain an unfair advantage because it's split the leave vote, that's why I'd recommend an STV. It stops vote splitting being an issue). That way things can go three ways:
1) We get a majority for no deal. We crash out. The economy and union are both fucked, but at least we avoid the political nightmare. Some people are upset, but at least the majority are content (unless things go really sideways for the economy).
2) We get a majority for a deal. If it's a specific deal, great, it's answered. If it's not, then the remain and no deal MPs are more likely to fall in line with the idea of agreeing to at least something. Again, some people are upset but this is going to probably have the fewest upset people. No-dealers are more likely to see this as at least *a* brexit, and remainers are going to be happy it's at least not a no-deal
3) We get a majority for remain. We remain, some people are upset, there are cries of "Oh so you were just going to do a referendum until you got the result you want?" but ultimately nothing comes of it.

In essence, a second referendum will give us a true mandate. 52% was a very shaky mandate in the first place, turning it from "We're definitely getting a deal!" into "Look you all voted for no deal" basically completely delegitimised the mandate because the referendum never specified that, and 90% of the leave campaigning was saying that we'd get a deal.

Obviously it won't work out this perfectly, but really all the other alternatives involve utterly alienating half of the electorate and potentially slamming one of the first nails into parliamentary sovereignty's coffin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 02:51:50 pm

Quote

As for calling various non-racist parties racist, I can't even be bothered arguing. I'm guessing I won't change your mind.

Ah gee, I forgot that current UKIP MEPs calling asian people "chinks" isn't, in fact, racist. He claimed it was a joke, so that's all 100% OK. Also the bongo-bongo land comment back in 2013. And that thing where a council candidate said that all Asian people are sexual groomers and bombers. They did distance themselves from that, but that was only after it was brought to light, apparently they don't vet their candidates that well.

Like it or not, it's a racist party. It might not say it is, but in much the same way American law enforcement doesn't racially profile people, it actually fucking is. When people at all kinds of levels of the organisation are routinely making racist comments, it's. Fucking. Racist.

The last two examples were from BEFORE Farage distanced himself from UKIP.

And while it's not actually racism, there's also one major fucking streak of islamophobia in it which is its own form of bigotry.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 28, 2019, 02:53:28 pm

Even if Parliament somehow managed to set up a second referendum, they'd still have to convince the EU to move the Brexit deadline further and there's no guarantee that they would.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:02:38 pm

Quote from: Ispil on August 28, 2019, 02:57:05 pm

That and voting on a thing, waiting 5 years, and voting again reminds me a lot of double jeopardy in law- where you can’t keep trying someone for the same crime over and over until you get the result you want.

Which is why, as I said, it can be used to deliver a clear mandate. The last vote's given a not-very-clear (as in 2%) mandate to leave, and that was for every kind of leave available. Nothing was set out in that, most especially not no-deal. There's nothing wrong with going "OK, so we've actually got some options for you..." and asking. Hell, there's a fair chance leave would get more of the vote share because some remainers will have been convinced to go along with brexit since that was decided last time.

At the very least a "no deal or deal" referendum, if the idea of sticking remain on is unpalatable. A referendum got us into this complete mess by delivering a very uncertain mandate. At this point the only thing that can give some real political breathing room is going back to the people to get a proper mandate on bloody something. God knows that the government deciding what goes down isn't going sew anything together.

EDIT: On less "I'm angry" and a more "Dark humour" levels, anyone else being reminded of David's old "Stability with me or chaos with Ed Milliband" soundbite?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 03:03:00 pm

Quote

3) We get a majority for remain. We remain, some people are upset, there are cries of "Oh so you were just going to do a referendum until you got the result you want?" but ultimately nothing comes of it.

"Some people" will be more than merely upset, I assure you.

Assuming a second referendum were to take place (though why we would want to tear our nation apart with yet more rabid political campaigns I don't know...) the only conscionable options would concern the flavour of leave - either a predetermined deal or no deal. We could throw in varieties of deal just to add spice.

The question of whether to leave has already been voted on, we have already burned our bridges with the EU to get it done, it's been passed into law, and going "nope" is literally the only thing I can think of which is worse than the May Day Deal. I understand you wish the result had been different and that you think the people were misled and we should therefore retake the vote, but that's just not how democracy works.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:09:59 pm

We haven't burned all of our bridges. If we stayed in, I can damn near guarantee (Tell you what, I'll eat 3 sheets of paper after writing "I'm a moron" repeatedly on all of them in non-toxic ink if this happens and I'm wrong) that we'd keep our opt-outs for the EU. And while it'll take a bit for anyone to trust us again, give it a decade or two and assuming that we're not in complete turmoil the entire time things will almost be back to normal.

Obviously leave and rejoin would be a different kettle of fish.


And while remain winning ref. 2 would make some people "more than upset", so will no deal brexit. Hell, there were large (though not long lasting) protests against leaving. That's not going to simmer down any time, and if there's even a whiff of economic issues as a result of it their righteous indignation at saying that bad things would happen won't even be the tip of the iceberg.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on August 28, 2019, 03:20:01 pm

Quote from: Ispil on August 28, 2019, 02:57:05 pm

That and voting on a thing, waiting 5 years, and voting again reminds me a lot of double jeopardy in law- where you can’t keep trying someone for the same crime over and over until you get the result you want.

The first referendum wasn't legally binding, but you'd definetly get the double-jeopardy feeling from some voters. I was thinking more that the EU 28 27 would just be exhausted due to the way Brexit as a whole has been conducted plus the fact that Parliament can't decide what they even want to do in the first place and just want this whole thing to be over with.

Besides, if Parliament reflects the electorate and if THEY can't decide, what guarantee is there that a second referendum will make things any clearer? That's what Parliament would have to convince the EU about.

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:09:59 pm

We haven't burned all of our bridges. If we stayed in, I can damn near guarantee (Tell you what, I'll eat 3 sheets of paper after writing "I'm a moron" repeatedly on all of them in non-toxic ink if this happens and I'm wrong) that we'd keep our opt-outs for the EU. And while it'll take a bit for anyone to trust us again, give it a decade or two and assuming that we're not in complete turmoil the entire time things will almost be back to normal.

Obviously leave and rejoin would be a different kettle of fish.


And while remain winning ref. 2 would make some people "more than upset", so will no deal brexit. Hell, there were large (though not long lasting) protests against leaving. That's not going to simmer down any time, and if there's even a whiff of economic issues as a result of it their righteous indignation at saying that bad things would happen won't even be the tip of the iceberg.

I forget if it was the leave and rejoin option or if it was the cancel article 50 option, but didn't the EU say that if the UK went back in, they'd be on a tighter leash so to speak? Pretty sure that was the leave and rejoin option. Though if article 50 were cancelled at this point, they'd probably just make the UK work harder for it's perks or something rather than any real punishment since the whole debacle is enough to give potential exitees second thoughts about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 03:22:46 pm

Warning: shitty google translate LINK (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redaccionmedica.com%2Fsecciones%2Fderecho%2Fcien-personas-retienen-a-la-medica-para-evitar-el-cierre-del-ambulatorio--5024)
Sooo... in a small town in Andalusia they had problems finding a GP for a rural clinic, and they had the bright idea of actually holding against her will the doctor who had been there for 24 hours.

I'm sure that will encourage other GPs to accept a posting there. Yep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:29:19 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 03:22:46 pm

Warning: shitty google translate LINK (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redaccionmedica.com%2Fsecciones%2Fderecho%2Fcien-personas-retienen-a-la-medica-para-evitar-el-cierre-del-ambulatorio--5024)
Sooo... in a small town in Andalusia they had problems finding a GP for a rural clinic, and they had the bright idea of actually holding against her will the doctor who had been there for 24 hours.

I'm sure that will encourage other GPs to accept a posting there. Yep.

Jesus mercy.

If I was that doctor I'd move, half out of fear for my own safety, and half out of sheer spite for those morons. That or agree to see them, then tell every last one of them they need to see a specialist somewhere else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 03:43:32 pm

This is a lost town, in Andalusia, and the doctor is a GP. Odds are 9/10 she's from out of town being forced to go there because of the godawful working conditions for doctors in Andalusia, specially GPs. 


See, the Spanish healthcare systems (or systems, because it's devolved to the Autonomous Communities) have relied on years on having a pool of unemployed doctors to keep them desperate enough to accept shitty working conditions (not so much about the money as about being really shitty about things like contract lenght and holidays), and this went TRIPLE for GPs because they were dime a dozen, but that was in the 80s... now they dont have that pool anymore and they struggle to cover posts, specially remote ones, and this goes TRIPLE for effing Andalusia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:50:03 pm

How bad are the working conditions?

And is it bad because of incompetence, lack of funds, or malice?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 28, 2019, 04:31:30 pm

For centuries people have been trying to destroy the UK, and then Boris goes and does it in just a couple months. Fucking legendary. I wonder if twenty years from now they'll say he was a German intelligence plant in the Enduring Survivor's Nation of England?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 05:02:53 pm

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 03:50:03 pm

How bad are the working conditions?

And is it bad because of incompetence, lack of funds, or malice?

I've never worked in the south nor do I want to so I can't talk from experience. I can tell you that the base wages are around 10-20% lower than elsewhere in the country (though to be fair the cost of living is also lower), they have shitty job security (worse than elsewhere), and the lack of doctors... well, in no small measure means that the ones that do stay have to pick up the slack :/  It's certainly not something attractive, and attractiveness in one way or the other, both between countries and within a country. 

To be fair there are "hard-to-cover areas" everywhere, normally remote areas. In other countries normally they provide cash incentives (I've gotten letters from the British NHS offering 25000 GBP as "golden handshakes"), elsewhere in Spain you get more job flexibility (if you're permanent or semipermanent there that is). In Andalusia  they mostly rely on penalties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 28, 2019, 05:20:44 pm

Quote from: Great Order on August 28, 2019, 01:03:12 pm

So... I see that the "Take back democracy" idea had a line in fine print saying "So we could remove it ourselves"

That was supposed to be fine print?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: nenjin on August 28, 2019, 07:37:42 pm

So the Queen still has to actually declare Prorogation? Does the Monarchy in fact want Brexit? Cause if they didn't, it seem easy to tell him "No." And if they do....there is still time for Parliament to hold a vote of No Confidence before Prorogation actually starts. Although I suppose doing that for a PM who has been sitting for like, what, 3 months would be unprecedented.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on August 28, 2019, 07:39:50 pm

It's not easy to say no, because whilst the monarchy technically can, it opens a whole can of worms about how symbolic the monarchy is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on August 28, 2019, 09:55:35 pm

Related.

https://twitter.com/The_Law_Boy/status/1166725602818351104 (https://twitter.com/The_Law_Boy/status/1166725602818351104)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 10:02:57 pm

In other news the Italian president apparently managed to negotiate a deal between M5S and the Democratic Party. So basically Salvini's push for no confidence and a new election will only result in him being kicked out of goverment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/world/europe/italy-government-salvini.amp.html

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on August 29, 2019, 01:42:35 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on August 28, 2019, 10:02:57 pm

In other news the Italian president apparently managed to negotiate a deal between M5S and the Democratic Party. So basically Salvini's push for no confidence and a new election will only result in him being kicked out of goverment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/world/europe/italy-government-salvini.amp.html

What an idiot. I do love poetic justice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 29, 2019, 10:35:00 am

Quote from: Ispil on August 29, 2019, 05:44:41 am

Well, kicked out for now. An alliance between those two parties is so fragile that a faint breeze could shatter it.

Still... populists, be they left or right wing, tend to ride a lot on faux strenght. When they stop steamrolling they tend to lose momentum very quickly.  Look at Ciudadanos in Spain. They went from being papable as potential first force to just fighting for third with the left wing populists of podemos, when their bluff was called

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 29, 2019, 12:58:16 pm

Wait. 5 Star is run by a website admin?

Dear lord. He must be very happy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on September 04, 2019, 05:40:06 pm

I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that thing where they just "forget" it's happening and they find out 200 years later that the u.k has been leaving the e.u for 200 years

EDIT: Also, what would happen legally speaking if England left the U.K, obviously that wouldn't happen but what if it did

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 04, 2019, 05:58:24 pm

Isn’t there an automatic clause if they call for an election though? That at leas was one of the ‘very good reasons needed’ for a time extension that they’d only be willing to do an extension over. Though an attempt to call for a general election has gotten shot down.

Still, the extension is only for three months and I don’t see how they’d come up with something in that time frame because obviously they don’t want a no-deal Brexit, the current effort speaks volumes, but they can’t decide on what they want to do either. Unfortunately, limbo isn’t an option politically, legally, or economically (though I guess limbo would marginally be acceptable just for the consistency alone).

They could be trying to figure out a solution to the impasse (though I guess the current effort counts?), but instead are playing politics.

Quote from: scourge728 on September 04, 2019, 05:40:06 pm

I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that thing where they just "forget" it's happening and they find out 200 years later that the u.k has been leaving the e.u for 200 years

EDIT: Also, what would happen legally speaking if England left the U.K, obviously that wouldn't happen but what if it did

Given that there’s a cost politically (particularly domestically in the U.K.), economically, and legally to staying in limbo, it’d be pretty hard to ‘forget’ that it’s happening.

Edit: You know, what would happen if the EU refused the request because it doesn’t count as a really good reason, unless they legally (or maybe diplomatically) can’t refuse? I wonder if they’ve considered that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 04, 2019, 06:12:22 pm

Refusing makes them look uber bad on the world stage, accepting makes them look gracious and allows the UK to make an even greater fool of itself than it already has.

Boris is going to have to go humiliate himself and the nation before the world at the behest of parliament.

Truly, if there was any shred of idealism left surrounding the notion of 'Great Britain' it is well and truly gone now.


Edit: Watching this unfold, knowing that it can't be blamed on a weak May-style PM, I legitimately just feel embarrassed by my parliament. Even humiliated. Have they no shame?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 04, 2019, 06:14:40 pm

Motion to rename GB 'Rather Quite Large Britain'?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 04, 2019, 06:16:47 pm

Amendment: rename GB 'Groß Britain.'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 04, 2019, 06:31:33 pm

Yeah that’s a good point, it would definitely look bad diplomatically. They are allowed to suggest another date, but it won’t likely be a sooner date because that, again, could look bad diplomatically.

It’s also likely why they haven’t yet said outright no to an extension, though they have put down some reasonable conditions and just basically saying that it can’t be for the sake of extending time (which, ironically, is exactly what they’re doing right now). While the economic difficulties are far less than what the U.K. is having, the economic, political, and legal consequences of the U.K. staying in limbo is eventually going to start wearing on EU leaders as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 04, 2019, 09:20:14 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on September 04, 2019, 05:40:06 pm

I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that thing where they just "forget" it's happening and they find out 200 years later that the u.k has been leaving the e.u for 200 years

EDIT: Also, what would happen legally speaking if England left the U.K, obviously that wouldn't happen but what if it did

More plausibly, North Ireland would leave and join Ireland.

I remember someone here objecting that North Ireland would lose all the "economic benefits" they get from being in the UK. But these "benefits" are probably rubbish. North Ireland has a lower per-capita GDP than even the poorest region of the Republic of Ireland.

If Brexit causes there to be trade-barriers or tariffs between Ireland and North Ireland then the economy of North Ireland would tank even more, and you'll probably see a swing of normal Irish people who want to leave the UK and join Ireland/EU. Yeah, so if your a North Ireland separatist then you should push Brexit, totally.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 04, 2019, 09:36:31 pm

Would that make the DUP NI separatists because the hard border that they might not necessarily want is going to happen anyway if no-deal Brexit happens which is what they apparently also want?

A bit of a convoluted piece of logic there, but still. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 04, 2019, 09:40:46 pm

By the way, Corbyn has now beaten Thatcher's record of 40 government defeats while leader of the opposition.

Red Tories beware, the lad's power has become legend.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 05, 2019, 04:08:24 am

Quote from: Reelya on September 04, 2019, 09:20:14 pm

Quote from: scourge728 on September 04, 2019, 05:40:06 pm

I'm honestly surprised they didn't do that thing where they just "forget" it's happening and they find out 200 years later that the u.k has been leaving the e.u for 200 years

EDIT: Also, what would happen legally speaking if England left the U.K, obviously that wouldn't happen but what if it did

More plausibly, North Ireland would leave and join Ireland.

I remember someone here objecting that North Ireland would lose all the "economic benefits" they get from being in the UK. But these "benefits" are probably rubbish. North Ireland has a lower per-capita GDP than even the poorest region of the Republic of Ireland.

If Brexit causes there to be trade-barriers or tariffs between Ireland and North Ireland then the economy of North Ireland would tank even more, and you'll probably see a swing of normal Irish people who want to leave the UK and join Ireland/EU. Yeah, so if your a North Ireland separatist then you should push Brexit, totally.

As I keep saying, 'North Ireland' has overtly political connotations. The proper name is 'Northern Ireland,' which doesn't have any significant political overtones. If you're intentionally politicising the name, then full steam ahead friend. If not, you might want to be more careful.

Also, I'm guessing by 'separatist' you somehow mean 'unionist'? Or are you specifically referring to someone who wants a hard border?

Either way, that you think an even less economically viable nation would stand a greater chance of getting voted into the Republic by the people of the Republic is kinda funny. :P

As an aside,

Quote

Northern Ireland has more of the identifiable spending per head than Scotland and Wales, receiving 21% more than the UK as a whole.

Next in line comes Scotland, which is 16% above the average and Wales at 10% above. England spends 3% per head below the overall UK figure.

A quick google didn't show me how much Britain spends in NI after NI contributions are removed, but last time I checked it was six or seven billion per year.

Quote from: smjjames on September 04, 2019, 09:36:31 pm

Would that make the DUP NI separatists because the hard border that they might not necessarily want is going to happen anyway if no-deal Brexit happens which is what they apparently also want?

A bit of a convoluted piece of logic there, but still. 

They want a soft border. They also don't want a shoddy deal which will screw the entire country over. And presumably, like Boris, they understand the negotiating power of keeping no deal on the table.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2019, 06:27:47 am

I know it matters to you as a non-Irish on Ireland, Dwarfy, but to us outsiders there is no difference between North and Northern Ireland - they mean exactly the same thing and any political tones you think "North Ireland" carries is equally carried by "Northern Ireland". They both mean "This is the northern part of the land of the Irish people".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 05, 2019, 06:30:54 am

That's why he's telling you there's a difference? Just because you don't know about the political tones doesn't mean they're not there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2019, 06:40:03 am

And I'm trying to say that they're still there if we use his preferred term, "Northern Ireland". It still says that the country is a part of and belongs to Ireland and the Irish.

The only way to not carry these overtones is to leave out Ireland and any reference to the Irish entirely, which coincidentally would carry the opposite insinuations - that the piece of land belong to the British and that the Irish should be removed from it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 05, 2019, 07:23:57 am

The fact that they have the same etymology does not mean that they have the same connotations. By the same token, South Africa and Southern Africa should mean the same thing, but they don't.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 05, 2019, 07:25:30 am

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 05, 2019, 07:42:46 am

Time for your daily dose of Norwegian!

Nord Polen: Northern Poland

Nordpolen: The North Pole

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on September 05, 2019, 07:52:35 am

Seems to me the real trick to this NI thing is to just use NI and let other people read it how they want to, heh. Less letters, too, so it saves both time and effort!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 05, 2019, 07:53:13 am

Quote from: Frumple on September 05, 2019, 07:52:35 am

Seems to me the real trick to this NI thing is to just use NI and let other people read it how they want to, heh. Less letters, too, so it saves both time and effort!

_{Beware of the knights}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on September 05, 2019, 08:44:25 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 05, 2019, 07:42:46 am

Time for your daily dose of Norwegian!

Nord Polen: Northern Poland

Nordpolen: The North Pole

This is interesting, that the addition of a space can change the location that one is referring to

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Moddan on September 05, 2019, 09:00:23 am

Quote from: Kagus on September 05, 2019, 07:42:46 am

Time for your daily dose of Norwegian!

Nord Polen: Northern Poland

Nordpolen: The North Pole

It's a tiny bit different in German:

Nordpol: North Pole
Nordpolen: gib back our clay

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2019, 09:48:01 am

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 05, 2019, 07:25:30 am

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 05, 2019, 09:57:01 am

Let's agree Northern Potatoland as a neutral term which will be equally satisfactory to all parties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2019, 10:35:00 am

Quote from: scriver on September 05, 2019, 09:48:01 am

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 05, 2019, 07:25:30 am

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Isn’t he on the side of the Republican unionists (the ones that want to join ROI. Though I’m a little unsure here as while he is a ‘leaver’ in terms of Brexit, i’m not entirely certain his stance on NI staying with the U.K. or not, though I think he may actually be on the side of staying in the U.K., not sure if he’s ever specified his position on that)? Just because he isn’t native Irish or his ancestors weren’t, doesn’t mean he can’t sympathize with or be on the side of those who want to leave the UK and join ROI.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on September 05, 2019, 10:58:37 am

Quote from: scriver on September 05, 2019, 09:48:01 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 05, 2019, 07:25:30 am

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Northern Ireland is a globally accepted geopolitical term for an entity that is separate from Ireland. What you're doing at the moment is like referring to Ukraine as South Russia, or maybe Norway as "West Scandinavia" and Sweden as "East Scandinavia".

When you say "North Ireland" instead of "Northern Ireland", you tacitly imply that it is a part of Ireland, not the UK. I have no horse in this race and know practically nothing about the Troubles, but I can certainly see the distinction.

You can't just refuse to call a country/province by its proper name because you don't think there's a distinction! All discourse breaks down because it stops being possible to agree on a common language.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 05, 2019, 02:37:53 pm

Meanwhile in Polan news but still in the OMGovernment category:
In the EU parliament Timmermans compared the actions of Polan government vis-a-vis the ongoing attempts to take control of the judicial branch to the political route the Nazis took in the 30s.
Ooh, bold move, Frans. Polan establishment has a thing about having its spotless self-image so besmirched.
Now the government talking heads in the tube are having a go, basically screaming 'Godwin's Law' at the top of their lungs. Like, serious trigger warning. Also, Timmermans apparently hates Polan and is a literal commie (which is par for the course, since the EU is the new Soviet).
It's better than Youtube comment feed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 06, 2019, 05:23:34 am

Quote from: scriver on September 05, 2019, 09:48:01 am

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 05, 2019, 07:25:30 am

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Lol, the occupation. My family has owned the same land for four hundred years. Our name is on maps of ownership older than America. At what point will you stop calling me an 'occupier' and start calling me a native?

Smjjames: I'm a unionist. The UK, for all its faults, is my nation and its government my government. The ROI is a foreign  nation to me.

As for the continuing debate on terminology, I'll just say I agree with Arx.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2019, 06:12:59 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 05, 2019, 04:08:24 am

Quote from: Reelya on September 04, 2019, 09:20:14 pm

If Brexit causes there to be trade-barriers or tariffs between Ireland and North Ireland then the economy of North Ireland would tank even more, and you'll probably see a swing of normal Irish people who want to leave the UK and join Ireland/EU. Yeah, so if your a North Ireland separatist then you should push Brexit, totally.

Also, I'm guessing by 'separatist' you somehow mean 'unionist'? Or are you specifically referring to someone who wants a hard border?

Thanks for clearing up the semantics on North(ern) Ireland, take that as noted.

However, I definitely don't mean unionist here. Maybe I didn't pick a term that is in common use, by by "separatist" I mean the opposite of a Unionist, i.e. i meant people who want NI to split from Britain.

My point was that if Brexit occurs, then NI splitting from the UK is much more likely. So if you're NOT a unionist, you should be pro-Brexit. The UK continuing along in the EU makes NI unionism much easier to maintain as a status quo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 06, 2019, 08:32:36 am

Ah, fair enough. As I said previously, though, putting a spanner in the NI economy is the greatest way to de-incentivise a union with the Republic. Let's not forget, they don't exactly want us. Loyalty exists only in Northern Ireland, whether British or Irish. If taking Northern Ireland will constitute a blow to their economy, the Republic will not want us.

As I said, we cost billions per year as-is. I don't know that (even if they were willing to take the hit) they could actually sustain it.

And as for becoming an independent nation... just no. Firstly, it would be catastrophic economically. Secondly, it would be catastrophic politically (we currently don't have devolved parliament, which has allowed Westminster to impose draconian abortion laws on us. All because Northern Ireland politics is a mess.) Thirdly, there's no stomach for it. It is extremely seldom that an actual NIer suggests it - it tends to be others who do so.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on September 06, 2019, 11:07:30 am

tl;dr: Northern Potatoland is a complicated place

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 06, 2019, 11:24:30 am

I thought NI has devolved government? Though from what I hear, it’s more of a mess than the US, or even the US and U.K. combined right now. And IMO the whole Sinn Fein not taking part in parliament likely only makes things worse, though it’s been the status quo for decades now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 06, 2019, 11:55:13 am

There is a devolved government which currently refuses to govern. Northern Ireland politics are complicated, but essentially it requires power sharing - one Republican and one Unionist. There was an issue with a renewable heating scheme which cost a large amount of money to the government. Sinn Fein demanded that the unionist First Minister resign, which she refused to do. The Sinn Fein minister died and they refused to replace him, resulting in the collapse of power-sharing and with it devolved government.

In other words, we're one Republican short of a government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 06, 2019, 03:50:15 pm

Don't worry, the way BoJo's been talking NI will return to direct rule within the year, alongside Scotland and Wales.

Who knew the solution could be so simple?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on September 07, 2019, 06:01:20 am

Well, BoJo promised to unite the country, didn't he? He already united the party by kicking out all who dared disagree, so he's got experience on this uniting thing.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on September 06, 2019, 11:55:13 am

In other words, we're one Republican short of a government.

Or one Unionist too much.
There's a lengthy Wikipedia article about the mess (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal) for those interested.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 07, 2019, 06:48:05 am

Well, I suppose you could term it like that in so far as the current Unionist resigning miiiight result in us not being a Republican short.

But it's just easier to say we're a Republican short :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on September 10, 2019, 09:00:19 am

Sooo... EU just appointed an irish fellow as their chief trade negotiator, apparently. That's gotta' be 'fun' news for certain folks in the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 10, 2019, 09:44:15 am

Quote from: Frumple on September 10, 2019, 09:00:19 am

Sooo... EU just appointed an irish fellow as their chief trade negotiator, apparently. That's gotta' be 'fun' news for certain folks in the UK.

There's certainly some irony there, but I doubt many are going to care much. Since the ministers are in theory supposed to be impartial when it comes to their home countries (in practice however....), it might not matter much. If anything, it might actually help in the long run because they might be able to represent Ireland better in figuring out what to do with the ROI-NI border.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on September 10, 2019, 10:24:26 am

Quote from: smjjames on September 06, 2019, 11:24:30 am

I thought NI has devolved government? Though from what I hear, it’s more of a mess than the US, or even the US and U.K. combined right now. And IMO the whole Sinn Fein not taking part in parliament likely only makes things worse, though it’s been the status quo for decades now.

It's a catch-22 situation. The reason so much money needs to be poured into NI is because it was taken over and they must maintain control. It's kind of the reason nobody really wants colonies anymore. They're expensive, unless it's like an oilfield or something and you carve out just the bit with oil as your "colony".

This has lead to dependency and also suppression of economic growth. So, taking the UK's support away would hurt, however it's that relationship which is the ultimate cause of the malaise.

EDIT: I'll just mention the fact that the counties which became Northern Ireland used to be the wealthiest part of Ireland, which is why the Brits really wanted to hold onto that bit, I guess. Now, it's the poorest. This should make it clear that it's the relationship with the UK, and not any inherent poverty of the NI region that's to blame here.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/03/26/is-northern-ireland-dramatically-poorer-than-the-republic/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 10, 2019, 09:34:10 pm

*Spits out coffee*

Wot. A lot going on there.

First off, not a colony, m8. Democratically-voted-in-member-of-the-UK-with-representation-in-parliament-and-a-devolved-government here (well, devolved government if it chooses to sit). It's not an occupation. To quote myself last time it was implied I was an occupier:

Quote

Lol, the occupation. My family has owned the same land for four hundred years. Our name is on maps of ownership older than America. At what point will you stop calling me an 'occupier' and start calling me a native?

Quote

This should make it clear that it's the relationship with the UK, and not any inherent poverty of the NI region that's to blame here.

That is a hugely sweeping statement and I'd like to see your in-depth justification for it. Firstly, before partition all of Ireland was under British rule. Unless you're implying that Northern Ireland's development of devolved government and greater political rights in the U.K. is proportionally linked to economic calamity, Ireland has been under varying degrees of British rule since the late twelfth century when Henry II came over and said 'mine'. It's fun to read about, actually. The Irish monks were so happy they tried to get the pope to forgive him for the whole Becket misunderstanding.

But I digress.

I'm sure you'll want to expand on what 'maintain control' means? Police costs? I'm having trouble thinking what costs so much that it has humbled an obviously otherwise booming economy.

Though I'm no economist, I'll give my spin on Northern Ireland's shoddy economy. Northern Ireland was a world-leading ship-building area, which explains why Belfast and Northern Ireland were so seemingly disproportionately valuable. When partition happened in 1921, Northern Ireland was worth a pretty penny or two. As with every boom, though, there must be a bust. When the Wallstreet crash occurred in 1929, many jobs were lost and businesses began to shut down. The largest companies survived (albeit at great cost) and continued on. World War Two began in 1933, and in 1941 key shipyards were blitzed by the Germans. Following the war, production gradually fell and unemployment skyrocketed. Against all this was the constant thrum of dissident action which discouraged investment, destroyed infrastructure and was Generally Bad. This has only recently tapered off with the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. While ships are no longer produced in Belfast for the aforementioned reasons, nevertheless with a ceasefire Northern Ireland has begun to diversify. Tourism and trade has increased, and the economy is slowly beginning to improve. Investment in new businesses is encouraged by the Council, so on so forth.

Apologies if there's any snark in there, it's half three and I've been writing my dissertation all day. Don't call it snark, call it borderline insanity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 11, 2019, 06:47:37 am

Scotland’s High Court rules that prorogation was unlawful. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855) The government plan to appeal to the UK Supreme Court.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 11, 2019, 06:55:44 am

Ideally, the UK splits into seven kingdoms again. Then Tusk breeds some dragons from dinosaur fossils and chicken DNA before descending upon Boris' Landing with Nicola, the Queen in the North, in tow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 11, 2019, 08:41:55 am

The UK was never seven kingdoms. You're thinking of the English Heptarchy, a collection of seven kingdoms.

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales weren't anything to do with it.

Well, no more than could be expected, hah.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 11, 2019, 08:54:28 am

Pretty sure that's a Game of Thrones reference there th4dwarfy1. ;) At least I think it's a GoT reference.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 11, 2019, 09:36:46 am

I got the reference, but he did say "the UK splits into the Seven kindoms again"

There was historical inaccuracy there as well as a reference, dammit!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 11, 2019, 09:51:28 am

Look, mate. I'm a simple guy. For me, it goes: Beaker culture->the Celts->the heptarchy->Normans->some kingdom(s) and or Cromwell-something-parliamentarians-something->the UK.
Don't diss me, that's more than you know about Polish history.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 11, 2019, 10:48:23 am

No I played the Witcher games

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on September 11, 2019, 11:32:04 am

There were some horse riders, a lot of being conquered and becoming independent only for the cycle to restart, and some being divided I think

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 11, 2019, 11:35:29 am

You forgot about the dwarven uprising against bugbears in 1866.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 11, 2019, 11:39:29 am

First there was a Lech and a Czech and a Bellman, and then there was a people on the river, and then they united all the tribes, and there was much wiece. Then nothing happened until a Swede inherited the country in the 16th century, and there was much feasting of root fruits, and then Hitler invaded during the 30 years war

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 11, 2019, 11:42:38 am

You know, there are vacancies in our educations system. You seem qualified enough for a historian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on September 11, 2019, 04:40:21 pm

There is only one thing I know about Polish history:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WHEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 11, 2019, 05:02:23 pm

Don't forget the big black club!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on September 17, 2019, 04:25:29 am

You're tripping, there is no history east of tigris and rhine. # Canaan in the borders of 67BC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on September 19, 2019, 08:17:50 am

Quote from: dragdeler on September 17, 2019, 04:25:29 am

You're tripping, there is no history east of tigris and rhine. # Canaan in the borders of 67BC

Everyone knows that The West had no history before the 15th century when they got ashamed of it and enviously copied China's history to make up "Egypt", "Rome" and "Feudalism".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 19, 2019, 08:30:36 am

So the EU has issued a 12 day deadline to the UK to make some progress or "it's over". Happening levels are greater than ever before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on September 19, 2019, 02:08:01 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 19, 2019, 08:30:36 am

So the EU has issued a 12 day deadline to the UK to make some progress or "it's over". Happening levels are greater than ever before.

Brexit is over, now we're on Breviction.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on September 19, 2019, 03:58:08 pm

Boris Bruck off?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 19, 2019, 11:01:24 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 19, 2019, 08:30:36 am

So the EU has issued a 12 day deadline to the UK to make some progress or "it's over". Happening levels are greater than ever before.

Sounds like it was basically a call for 'Could you please at least tell us what ideas you do have?' since they have shared some confidential documents (though I'm sure it'd be easy to figure out what's in them anyway) (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49753413) documents with the EU. The UK government does claim that it's not in response to the comments from the Finnish PM.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on September 24, 2019, 06:29:52 am

Just when you think the situation couldn't get more chaotic in UK, ... then it does:
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-parliament-suspension-unlawful-supreme-court/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-parliament-suspension-unlawful-supreme-court/)

Well, at least my favorite reality show will soon be on the air again.  http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons (http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons)  ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 24, 2019, 06:48:07 am

I can't stand the Brittish parliament. I don't understand how decisions can be made under those circumstances.

I mean, obviously, they can't. But they could before and the awful working environment was still there then too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2019, 11:42:55 am

Quote from: scriver on September 24, 2019, 06:48:07 am

I can't stand the Brittish parliament. I don't understand how decisions can be made under those circumstances.

I mean, obviously, they can't. But they could before and the awful working environment was still there then too.

And yet they somehow seem to be able to get other legislation through. As much as Brexit dominates everything, I haven't heard anything about it impeding the day to day workings and just generally getting things done.

It'll definitely be hard to get anything else done during the time crunch between now and October 31st though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on September 28, 2019, 05:12:18 pm

Brexit drama continues... There's speculation that a no confidence vote (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49863544) could be called next week sometime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 09:46:40 am

Nothing going on in Europe?

Anyways, I'm wondering on something. I've read that Corbyn is hated heavily because socialist (plus the whole anti-semitism scandal), but I'm a little confused due to the different definitions of 'socialism' being thrown around and the fact that Europes spectrum is shifted left somewhat of the US. So, basically I'm wondering, when Brits say Corbyn is socialist and disliked even on the left for it, do they mean the American definition of 'thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it' or do they mean he is true full blown hardcore dictionary definition fitting socialist/communist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 13, 2019, 09:48:18 am

Both  :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2019, 11:21:43 am

Social democracy and the labour movement is socialist at heart and in origins and it's values and end-goals reflect that. However since the neo-liberal wave of the 80's the party establishments has drifted heavily right-wards, trading massive, fundamental parts of socialist ideology for neo-liberal brainfarts. In Britain, this came to a head with Tony Blair and his "New Labour" which basically threw socialism under the bus and went straight liberal.

Now, Corbyn is more of an actual social democrat. Somebody who still holds to more of the pre-neo-liberal Labour ideology. He came into power because people were getting tired of the "New Labour" nonsense, but because the Labour establishment is fundamentally liberlised by now, has spent basically all his time having to fight his own party members since he has the support of Labour members but not it's leadership (or at least did, I don't know where he currently stands).

So to answer your question of "when Brits say Corbyn is socialist and disliked even on the left for it, do they mean the American definition of 'thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it' or do they mean he is true full blown hardcore dictionary definition fitting socialist/communist?": Neither, because that's still a thoroughly Americanised view of things. It depends on if your "true full blown hard-core dictionary definition" includes social democracy and the labour movement as Socialist (which it should, or it's wrong).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on October 13, 2019, 11:29:26 am

Let it be known that social democrats are good and all, somewhat reasonable, and mostly important, damn liberals.

Corbyn Is as communist as Macron.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 12:30:44 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 13, 2019, 11:21:43 am

Social democracy and the labour movement is socialist at heart and in origins and it's values and end-goals reflect that. However since the neo-liberal wave of the 80's the party establishments has drifted heavily right-wards, trading massive, fundamental parts of socialist ideology for neo-liberal brainfarts. In Britain, this came to a head with Tony Blair and his "New Labour" which basically threw socialism under the bus and went straight liberal.

Now, Corbyn is more of an actual social democrat. Somebody who still holds to more of the pre-neo-liberal Labour ideology. He came into power because people were getting tired of the "New Labour" nonsense, but because the Labour establishment is fundamentally liberlised by now, has spent basically all his time having to fight his own party members since he has the support of Labour members but not it's leadership (or at least did, I don't know where he currently stands).

So, it's more of a 'Because Corbyn is neo-liberal'? Though it's probably more complicated than that.

Quote

So to answer your question of "when Brits say Corbyn is socialist and disliked even on the left for it, do they mean the American definition of 'thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it' or do they mean he is true full blown hardcore dictionary definition fitting socialist/communist?": Neither, because that's still a thoroughly Americanised view of things.

That's the point of my question, I'm confused because I only have the Americanized view and even that is confused. Plus the fact that Europe doesn't have quite the same stigma or fearmongering that the word 'socialism' got attached to it as it did in the US.

Quote

It depends on if your "true full blown hard-core dictionary definition" includes social democracy and the labour movement as Socialist (which it should, or it's wrong).

Except that social democracy and the labour movement aren't communist and I'm pretty sure that they don't have the same extreme collectivist stuff that Soviet Union and Maoist China did. Remember, I'm using the hardcore communist/socialist definition that Republicans use, or rather, the definition that they'd like to use.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on October 13, 2019, 01:09:17 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 12:30:44 pm

So, it's more of a 'Because Corbyn is neo-liberal'? Though it's probably more complicated than that.

The opposite really.

In a simplified sense Corbyn follows the principles Labour used to have as it's core identity, most of which got chucked out by Tony Blair in favour of neo-liberalism when he revamped the Labour party into 'New Labour' in order to appeal to the middle class.

Corbyn has the support of the biggest block of Labour members, largely older socialists and young social democrats, but he's not popular with the parts of the party that formed under New Labour, which also happen to be the majority of the ones in positions of authority in the party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 13, 2019, 01:15:08 pm

It is helpful to think of him as socialism's Barristan Selmy. Old and outdated, but still capable of putting the jumped up pups in their place on occasion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 13, 2019, 01:42:15 pm

I'm not sure he's even capable of that. He's not dealt with the whole antisemitism thing very well.

However, he has the support of the party members, but not the parliamentary party members, at least insofar as they tried to get rid of them, realised that the party members like him, so tolerate him because they need the support of the party members.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 13, 2019, 01:49:48 pm

Wait, Labour had an antisemitism scandal?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 13, 2019, 01:51:02 pm

Him being head of the party is enough to put them in their place.

Labour is something of a scaled-down Britain as revealed by Brexit. Namely that there's a parliamentary clique with its own culture, views and agenda. The voter/member is unpredictable and disturbs this culture.

What to do when your social group of parliamentarians (indeed, yourself included) is suddenly forced to conform on a key matter? You hold the power, but derive it from the public who have set you a mandate.

The answer?

Three. Years. Of. Nothing.

Quote from: Doomblade187 on October 13, 2019, 01:49:48 pm

Wait, Labour had an antisemitism scandal?

Where have you been

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 13, 2019, 01:52:03 pm

If you consider corporate propaganda a scandal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 13, 2019, 02:04:49 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 13, 2019, 01:51:02 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on October 13, 2019, 01:49:48 pm

Wait, Labour had an antisemitism scandal?

Where have you been

The United States of America.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 13, 2019, 02:14:22 pm

Ye gods, man. Don't you know that's bad for your health?


:P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 13, 2019, 02:15:02 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 13, 2019, 02:14:22 pm

Ye gods, man. Don't you know that's bad for your health?


:P

Well, yes, but I haven't been job hunting overseas. :3

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2019, 03:59:26 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on October 13, 2019, 11:29:26 am

Let it be known that social democrats are good and all, somewhat reasonable, and mostly important, damn liberals.

Corbyn Is as communist as Macron.

Social democrats are damn liberals or Social democrats all damn liberals? Because only the latter is true. Socialism and liberalism are opposites.

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 12:30:44 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 13, 2019, 11:21:43 am

Social democracy and the labour movement is socialist at heart and in origins and it's values and end-goals reflect that. However since the neo-liberal wave of the 80's the party establishments has drifted heavily right-wards, trading massive, fundamental parts of socialist ideology for neo-liberal brainfarts. In Britain, this came to a head with Tony Blair and his "New Labour" which basically threw socialism under the bus and went straight liberal.

Now, Corbyn is more of an actual social democrat. Somebody who still holds to more of the pre-neo-liberal Labour ideology. He came into power because people were getting tired of the "New Labour" nonsense, but because the Labour establishment is fundamentally liberlised by now, has spent basically all his time having to fight his own party members since he has the support of Labour members but not it's leadership (or at least did, I don't know where he currently stands).

So, it's more of a 'Because Corbyn is neo-liberal'? Though it's probably more complicated than that.

No, as Grim Portent responded, the opposite -- Corbyn is the socialist and the Labour party establishment are the neo-liberal non-socialists. I apologise if I mistakenly changed them around somewhere in my post.

Quote

Quote

So to answer your question of "when Brits say Corbyn is socialist and disliked even on the left for it, do they mean the American definition of 'thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it' or do they mean he is true full blown hardcore dictionary definition fitting socialist/communist?": Neither, because that's still a thoroughly Americanised view of things.

That's the point of my question, I'm confused because I only have the Americanized view and even that is confused. Plus the fact that Europe doesn't have quite the same stigma or fearmongering that the word 'socialism' got attached to it as it did in the US.

Quote

It depends on if your "true full blown hard-core dictionary definition" includes social democracy and the labour movement as Socialist (which it should, or it's wrong).

Except that social democracy and the labour movement aren't communist and I'm pretty sure that they don't have the same extreme collectivist stuff that Soviet Union and Maoist China did. Remember, I'm using the hardcore communist/socialist definition that Republicans use, or rather, the definition that they'd like to use.

Wait, I thought that by hardcore dictionary definition you meant the dictionary definition as opposed to the "thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it" American jargon usage of it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 04:10:26 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 13, 2019, 03:59:26 pm

Quote

Quote from: also scriver

It depends on if your "true full blown hard-core dictionary definition" includes social democracy and the labour movement as Socialist (which it should, or it's wrong).

Except that social democracy and the labour movement aren't communist and I'm pretty sure that they don't have the same extreme collectivist stuff that Soviet Union and Maoist China did. Remember, I'm using the hardcore communist/socialist definition that Republicans use, or rather, the definition that they'd like to use.

Wait, I thought that by hardcore dictionary definition you meant the dictionary definition as opposed to the "thing I don't like and don't want to have a productive conversation about it" American jargon usage of it?

I was kind of thinking hardcore definition of it as in the most extreme possible socialism, something like Communist Russia or China. Of course, the unwritten definition is that there is no definition because it's completely skewed over here :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2019, 04:19:27 pm

Ah, then I see, I misunderstood what you meant.

See where I'm coming from with this is that the issue with socialism and definitions is that liberals have basically defined "socialism" in such a way as to exclude every kind of successful and beneficial branch of the socialism tree, such as the Nordic socialism and social democratism in general. This makes using dictionary definitions of socialism painful for a Swedish social democrat such as myself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 04:27:13 pm

Um, no, it was the Republicans misusing it and creating that kind of definition (though moderate Democrats have used it in that way as well), not the liberals. Unless you meant the 'liberals' in Sweden, dunno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on October 13, 2019, 04:31:14 pm

I think the Cold War May have had something to do with socialism being turned into communism so that anything left wing is seen as a gateway to Soviet Communism, though the way Stalin ran it it was more a dictatorship than actual communism

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2019, 04:37:24 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 04:27:13 pm

Um, no, it was the Republicans misusing it and creating that kind of definition (though moderate Democrats have used it in that way as well), not the liberals. Unless you meant the 'liberals' in Sweden, dunno.

Liberals not as in "the liberals" as in your Democrat party, "liberals" as in believers in liberalism, the ideology, the culture bloc. Both democrats and republicans are part of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 04:45:16 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on October 13, 2019, 04:31:14 pm

I think the Cold War May have had something to do with socialism being turned into communism so that anything left wing is seen as a gateway to Soviet Communism, though the way Stalin ran it it was more a dictatorship than actual communism

Pretty much that and the fact that the US was one of the two main players, so, socialism/communism was literally the enemy for us, and it still is to some.

Quote from: scriver on October 13, 2019, 04:37:24 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 13, 2019, 04:27:13 pm

Um, no, it was the Republicans misusing it and creating that kind of definition (though moderate Democrats have used it in that way as well), not the liberals. Unless you meant the 'liberals' in Sweden, dunno.

Liberals not as in "the liberals" as in your Democrat party, "liberals" as in believers in liberalism, the ideology, the culture bloc. Both democrats and republicans are part of it.

I don't know what your Republicans look like, but the Republicans here are by and large not liberal, not the way Americans label it anyway. Of course though, Americans just refuse to fit into European boxes. ;) lol

I did check the wiki page though and while Republicans fit the small government and somewhat the economic theory portion (not really in practice though), they don't on the social portion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 13, 2019, 05:00:44 pm

Our "republicans" are literally that - people who advocate for the abolishment of the monarchy and the institutioning of a Swedish republic ;)

But that a side not, it's not because of that I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't mean to imply that the American parties are the same, but I definitely think they are playing in the same ballpark - the one of liberalism. One is a lot more conservative than the other, but conservatism today is more or less a niche, societally/culturally conservative branch on the thought-tree of liberalism. Parts of it was was grafted there from the big old Tree of Conservatism, but it's the juices of Liberalism that flow through it and fuels it now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on October 13, 2019, 05:25:18 pm

It’s also worth noting that both the parties in the USA, Democrats and Republicans, get money from the same corporations. Our “government” is naught but a tool for companies now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on October 14, 2019, 05:50:42 am

So there's a miscommunication here because of different meanings of liberal.

There's the classic meaning of liberal, which refers to economic liberalism and is the the basis of neo-liberal policy, and social liberalism, which is about the acceptance of social minorities.

The US Republican and Democrat parties both subscribe to neo-liberal economic policy, but the Democrats also subscribe (generally) to socially liberal ideals.

Similarly the Liberal Democrats, New Labour and the Conservative party in the UK are also all neo-liberal, but vary in their level of social liberalness.



For context neo-liberalism is anti-financial regulation, anti-welfare and pro-free market. It's basically the reason corporations got as powerful as they are now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 14, 2019, 08:12:15 am

BTW, if you want some good ammo against the "free market fixes everything" people then you want to read up on game theory, especially The Prisoner's Dilemma coupled with the concept of the Nash Equilibrium.

The point is that, in the Prisoner's Dilemma, if everyone cooperates, everyone is better off - both individually and as a group - yet this situation is unstable since any individual can look at the payout matrix, and see that no matter what anyone else does, you "gain" an "advantage" by backstabbing. So the Nash Equilibrium is that everyone decides they should backstab each other, even though this is paradoxically the worst outcome both as a group and as individuals.

What regulations and laws actually do is to force people to stay in the "cooperate" box, which is actually the optimal situation both individually and as a group. Complaining about the "costs" to enforce the regulations is thus pretty much bullshit, since that's not taking the opportunity costs into account (the global costs imposed by everyone backstabbing in the Prisoner's Dilemma model).

An example I've seen recently is people (not here, but on Slashdot) arguing that if electric cars are so good then there shouldn't need to be regulation on exhaust fumes, because the "free market" will see that the better, non-polluting cars should win out without needing regulation. But that doesn't take game theory into account, whatsoever. If *everyone* drives an electric car, then everyone needs to pay a bit more, but everyone will save on healthcare bills. however, any *one* person can say "well if I *don't* drive an electric car, I can save on transport costs, and the effects on my *personal* health from my decision will be pretty minimal, therefore I should drive a gasoline car". And this is always going to be true no matter what percentage of other people have gasoline or electric cars. So if you let them, people will devolve into the "cheaper for me but ends up fucking everyone else over" option, and everyone gets sick, and anyone who does the right thing ends up being the sucker in the game. so this is why regulations are needed - externalities, game theory, nash equilibriums.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on October 16, 2019, 03:55:26 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 14, 2019, 08:12:15 am

...
What regulations and laws actually do is to force people to stay in the "cooperate" box, ...

Thank you for sharing. That is indeed a good angle on this. :-)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 16, 2019, 06:16:36 am

I coincidentally came across a real-life example. Tobacco companies advertise against each other to take market-share off each other, and to not advertise is to lose out to the competition. In Prisoner's Dilemma terms, not advertising is cooperation and advertising is back-stabbing.

However, in the UK they banned tobacco advertising. What then happened was a windfall for all the tobacco companies. Total sales didn't go down, but the costs did, since they no longer had to play the advertising game against each other. So this is an example of how competition over a finite resource can actually lead to more inefficiency. The regulation actually made the whole industry more efficient since they not longer had to expend so much resource in order to maintain market share.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scourge728 on October 16, 2019, 08:11:03 am

Just ban nicotine

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2019, 08:29:24 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2019, 06:16:36 am

I coincidentally came across a real-life example. Tobacco companies advertise against each other to take market-share off each other, and to not advertise is to lose out to the competition. In Prisoner's Dilemma terms, not advertising is cooperation and advertising is back-stabbing.

However, in the UK they banned tobacco advertising. What then happened was a windfall for all the tobacco companies. Total sales didn't go down, but the costs did, since they no longer had to play the advertising game against each other. So this is an example of how competition over a finite resource can actually lead to more inefficiency. The regulation actually made the whole industry more efficient since they not longer had to expend so much resource in order to maintain market share.

I wonder if the same effect would happen to pharmaceutical companies if we banned advertising for those. It'd free cash right up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on October 16, 2019, 09:18:56 am

Quote from: smjjames on October 16, 2019, 08:29:24 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 16, 2019, 06:16:36 am

I coincidentally came across a real-life example. Tobacco companies advertise against each other to take market-share off each other, and to not advertise is to lose out to the competition. In Prisoner's Dilemma terms, not advertising is cooperation and advertising is back-stabbing.

However, in the UK they banned tobacco advertising. What then happened was a windfall for all the tobacco companies. Total sales didn't go down, but the costs did, since they no longer had to play the advertising game against each other. So this is an example of how competition over a finite resource can actually lead to more inefficiency. The regulation actually made the whole industry more efficient since they not longer had to expend so much resource in order to maintain market share.

I wonder if the same effect would happen to pharmaceutical companies if we banned advertising for those. It'd free cash right up.

I think when pharma were banned from giving freebies to doctors to get the to over-prescribe things, they just got better at doing it quietly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 16, 2019, 09:31:49 am

Quote from: Reelya on October 14, 2019, 08:12:15 am

The point is that, in the Prisoner's Dilemma, if everyone cooperates, everyone is better off - both individually and as a group

But they're also criminals D: D: D:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 17, 2019, 06:46:37 am

’e’s only gone and got a new deal (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50079385).

Now his problem is getting parliament to vote for it, and wouldn’t you know, he willingly gave up his slim majority b removing the whip from some rebels, and appears to have no interest in getting the DUP around to his thinking.

I’m also not sure what the Mogg thinks Boris has done in 85 days that couldn’t be done in three years ‘cause all the other parties are like “lol no” so far, and the EU 27 haven’t agreed to noffin’ yet.

2 weeks to go!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2019, 06:49:43 am

Catalonia is burning by the way

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 17, 2019, 08:21:12 am

Quote from: scriver on October 17, 2019, 06:49:43 am

Catalonia is burning by the way

Wildfires or arson? :0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 17, 2019, 08:33:17 am

The Hong Kong variety.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on October 17, 2019, 10:06:10 am

So Boris Johnsons brilliant plan with getting a deal with the EU, was to agree to the original proposal put forward by the EU of having NI separate from GB in customs, which TM was forced to reject and go with the whole-UK approach instead solely because the DUP would have none of it?

Mmmmkay?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on October 17, 2019, 10:12:39 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on October 17, 2019, 10:06:10 am

So Boris Johnsons brilliant plan with getting a deal with the EU, was to agree to the original proposal put forward by the EU of having NI separate from GB in customs, which TM was forced to reject and go with the whole-UK approach instead solely because the DUP would have none of it?

Mmmmkay?

This plan doesn't sound very well thought out to me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 17, 2019, 10:18:13 am

It's not that simple.

It seems we'd be in both, almost. An "entry point" into the customs union while still being in the UK customs territory. A joint-UK-and-EU committee will determine tariffs and the like, and the release valve of a every-four-years vote in the Northern Ireland Assembly ensures it is not necessarily permanent.

However, I agree with the DUP. It's still not good enough.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2019, 10:25:18 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on October 17, 2019, 08:21:12 am

Quote from: scriver on October 17, 2019, 06:49:43 am

Catalonia is burning by the way

Wildfires or arson? :0

Castillians want to remove paella

Paella is burning itself into the pan

Basically Madrid just convicted the leaders of the Catalan nationalist movement for treason. Catalonians does not think holding a popular vote about Catalonia's independency should be illegal. Madrid has since they abolished the Catalonian province government last year completely filled the state institutions with pro-Castillian yes men so any protest immediately turns into violence (Castillians love setting police and military on people).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 17, 2019, 10:25:46 am

From what I've read, it's mostly the same as Theresa May's deal. Did Parliament already agree (insofar as yes votes are gained) on everything else besides the backstop? I haven't heard whether there are other issues that haven't been settled since by all appearances, the backstop is the absolute last thing that needs to be settled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on October 17, 2019, 11:07:47 am

Wha I am referring to as poorly thought out is rejecting a plan only to later accept it, rather than simply accepting in the first place and making everything theoretically get done quicker. The plan itself is fine

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 17, 2019, 11:33:34 am

Quote from: scriver on October 17, 2019, 10:25:18 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on October 17, 2019, 08:21:12 am

Quote from: scriver on October 17, 2019, 06:49:43 am

Catalonia is burning by the way

Wildfires or arson? :0

Castillians want to remove paella

Paella is burning itself into the pan

Basically Madrid just convicted the leaders of the Catalan nationalist movement for treason. Catalonians does not think holding a popular vote about Catalonia's independency should be illegal. Madrid has since they abolished the Catalonian province government last year completely filled the state institutions with pro-Castillian yes men so any protest immediately turns into violence (Castillians love setting police and military on people).

You're not wrong in many regards, but the state institutions are currently back in the hands of the Catalonian Govern.... which is trying to square the circle by BOTH supporting the protests AND sending the (famously brutal (https://elpais.com/ccaa/2012/01/11/catalunya/1326303030_114387.html)) regional police to quell the riots... with predictable results (https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/10/15/inenglish/1571142310_161582.html).


My thoughts on the situation: While the genesis of this whole fiasco is with no doubt in Mariano Rajoy Brey (former Spanish president) wiping his ass with the Catalonian devolution charter back in the early 2010s for purely electoral purposes, and specially his brutal crackdown in 2017, the management of the situation by the two major Catalonian nationalist parties have been less than brilliant (they've been basically fighting each other and one-upping each other. This has resulted in poor risk management and strategizing). As a result of this poor management in Madrid and Barcelona, things have gotten very dangerous indeed.  Two years ago I warned in this same thread that we were risking a brand new terrorist group (sometimes it seems that Castilian nationalists*** are looking for exactly that).  The way things are right now, I'd not be surprised if it happened in the next few weeks or months.


***: one interesting point about Castilian nationalists is that they claim to be Spanish nationalists, much like English nationalists claim to be British nationalists.  TBH I've always thought that the UK and Spain have curiously similar histories, social structures, and troubled relationships with subnationalities.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2019, 11:44:25 am

Worst thing is that now Real Madrid is all "nu uh we can't hold the classico in Barcelona under these conditions you have to play your "home" game in Madrid"

Nothing upsets a Spaniard as much as futbol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 17, 2019, 12:16:33 pm

Quote from: Ispil on October 17, 2019, 11:37:40 am

To keep up with the similarities, I suppose then that this would be what turns into the Troubles.

I really hope not. Things have been bad in the past, but never quite as bad as The Troubles.

Speaking of which, palm trees got old fast, and I'm holding out for the HSE to defrost contracts and contract my services as a blood mage again....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 19, 2019, 05:29:54 am

Btw: I kind of wonder if there will be matching far right riots in Madrid in the near future: the central goverment has decided to relocate the body of Francisco Franco from it's current place (basically a pyramid built with slave labor (https://www.moncloa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/valle.jpg)) to a far more mundane tomb in a nearby graveyard.   The conservatives and far right (tbh in Spain the separation between the two has always been hazy) are throwing a fit. 

It's due to happen in the next few days, probably monday or tuesday

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 19, 2019, 06:40:42 am

Don't be so quick to lambaste the conservatives - I bet they're simply concerned about the curse of the pharaohs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 19, 2019, 10:02:08 am

Isn't the central government a right wing government atm, I forget? I can understand them trying to break with and reconcile with the past regardless of political leaning though.

In Brexit news, Parliament has rejected (I think) Johnson's deal and voted on an extension (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/mps-put-brakes-on-boris-johnsons-brexit-deal-with-rebel-letwin-amendment), meanwhile, he has until 11PM London time (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/19/brexit-mps-vote-boris-johnson-deal-super-saturday-erg-tory-rebels-labour-live-news?page=with:block-5dab1c298f0804be72799d65#block-5dab1c298f0804be72799d65) to send a letter requesting an extension while at the same time being defiant and saying he won't. So, expect more drama to come.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 19, 2019, 10:16:32 am

Current president is a socialdemocrat.

Tbh it's kind of obvious that he's doing it for electoral purposes (doing this panders to the left of his voter base* but remarkably is far cheaper than implementing  a social economic policy).  But since there is no good reason to keep maintaining that joint  as a dictator's personal sanctuary so hey, why not. The fact that it makes the right wing salty (https://youtu.be/w1qCDtRLwJA) is a plus

* in case you're wondering, putting pressure on the Catalonians (ma non troppo)  is how he panders to the right of his party/voters. He has to be more careful there though as overdoing it means losing on the left.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on October 19, 2019, 10:28:35 am

I was wondering why the tomb looks so well-maintained (I would support allowing it to deteriorate and be vandalized if demolition isn't an option), but the mainstream conservatives being francoboos explains it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 19, 2019, 10:46:03 am

Quote from: WealthyRadish on October 19, 2019, 10:28:35 am

I was wondering why the tomb looks so well-maintained (I would support allowing it to deteriorate and be vandalized if demolition isn't an option), but the mainstream conservatives being francoboos explains it.

Or make it into a theme park

(https://www.eljueves.es/medio/2017/04/06/fachaventura1_ba94092f.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ametsala on October 19, 2019, 12:28:50 pm

Quote from: smjjames on October 19, 2019, 10:02:08 am

Isn't the central government a right wing government atm, I forget? I can understand them trying to break with and reconcile with the past regardless of political leaning though.

In Brexit news, Parliament has rejected (I think) Johnson's deal and voted on an extension (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/mps-put-brakes-on-boris-johnsons-brexit-deal-with-rebel-letwin-amendment), meanwhile, he has until 11PM London time (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/19/brexit-mps-vote-boris-johnson-deal-super-saturday-erg-tory-rebels-labour-live-news?page=with:block-5dab1c298f0804be72799d65#block-5dab1c298f0804be72799d65) to send a letter requesting an extension while at the same time being defiant and saying he won't. So, expect more drama to come.

The Parliament didn't reject BoJo's bill. They passed an amendment to withhold approval of it until the relevant legislation is passed (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/what-does-the-letwin-amendment-mean-for-brexit-timetable-boris-johnson). This leads to BoJo looking for a ditch to die in, because he'd rather do that than request a brexit extension, which he is now legally obliged to do. BoJo and his party were in such a hurry to find a suitable ditch, that they left the room before the deal was voted on.

About a month ago, the Parliament passed the Benn act (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/negotiations/the-benn-burt-bill-another-article-50-extension/?utm_source=House+of+Commons+Library+research+alerts&utm_campaign=353789fe34-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_09_04_08_00&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a9da1c9b17-353789fe34-102520749&mc_cid=353789fe34&mc_eid=e0a293fbf0), which requires the government to request a brexit extension if a brexit deal (or leaving without a deal) isn't approved by Parliament tonight. Just approving a deal (or no deal) today would mean that BoJo wouldn't have to ask for an extension.

The problem with the Benn act is that before an act becomes a law, it has to be accepted three times in the Parliament: 1. the lower house aka the commons, 2. the upper house aka the lords, and 3. the lower house again. So, passing the deal tonight would have led to BoJo not having to request an extension, and then the deal could be voted down in the next step, which would most likely lead to Britain crashing out of the EU with no deal. As the hard line conservative brexiters backed BoJo's deal today, they were probably counting on torpedoing the deal the next time it came around, giving them what they want - a hard brexit.


Edit: I wonder how Theresa May is going to vote when BoJo's deal is actually brought before the Parliament. When she was the PM, she said that no British PM could accept a deal that included a customs border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. BoJo's deal has just that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 19, 2019, 01:52:28 pm

I'm just waiting for the conclusion of this debacle wherein the cogs of state produce a Brexit so strangled with red tape that one must squint and turn one's head to the side to ensure that it is, indeed, Brexit.

Or is it Michaelangelo's David?  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on October 20, 2019, 06:43:28 am

Ever since the day it was announced people said that Britain would end up with all the drawbacks and none of the benefits of the EU, and it seems to be the winning prediction right now.

Let's see if BoJo gets his full brexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 20, 2019, 07:36:52 am

https://youtu.be/BN1WwnEDWAM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 21, 2019, 07:33:01 am

Anyways: news about Franco: we have a date and a plan: he'll be exhumed and removed from his casket on Thursday at 10:30 AM.  According to his embalmer he should be fairly well preserved, the major change will be that "his skin will be hard as leather now".

 Later he'll be moved by helicopter to his former palace, El Pardo, in order to await removal to a military cemetery.

Rumors about the Spanish far-right planning to use absconded SS-Ahnenerbe technology to raise him as a lich are so far unconfirmed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on October 21, 2019, 08:27:06 am

Quote from: Ametsala on October 19, 2019, 12:28:50 pm

They passed an amendment to withhold approval of it until the relevant legislation is passed.

I look forward to them passing that legislation sometime in 3020.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2019, 10:04:05 am

Anything going on outside of the UK?

Anyways, *PUNT!* (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603) Brexit is now extended to January 31st. Meanwhile, British Parliament is discussing a December election (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-50212212). Won't starting an election trigger another extensuon? I thought there was an automatic extension if there was an election or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 28, 2019, 06:24:33 pm

As eternally and surely as the leaves changing color or the days getting shorter, so too does Brexit get extended once again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 29, 2019, 12:56:24 am

By the time Brexit actually happens, the EU will have dissolved due to Grexit, Frexit, Germexit, Spexit etc, and the UK will be the only remaining nation in the EU. And then finally, the UK will vote to leave themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Arx on October 29, 2019, 01:08:34 am

When did Brexit even start? Like, 2016? At this rate they'll get out just in time for the Second Coming of Christ.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on October 29, 2019, 02:01:57 am

Quote from: Arx on October 29, 2019, 01:08:34 am

When did Brexit even start? Like, 2016? At this rate they'll get out just in time for the Second Coming of Christ.

When Trump hears "Second Coming of Christ" his first thought is of himself winning re-election in 2020.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on October 29, 2019, 04:24:17 am

Sometimes I think it would probably have been faster to divide the UK into pro-Brexit and anti-Brexit constituencies, make two separate countries out of them and then work out the legalities of the resulting patchwork border mess.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on October 29, 2019, 08:22:48 am

It would have been easier to give a timeline for the people who suggested it give everyone a workable plan. When they didn't, Brexit should have fallen through, because the people in charge can't make it work. If you can't answer "how?", don't try to make your idea law.

Actually, requiring someone to explain how their idea works, and lets the people listening point out the issues would prevent a lot of bad laws, in a reasonable world.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 29, 2019, 08:28:12 am

Quote

Because the people in charge won't make it work.

FTFY.

There is at least one way to deliver nearly immediately upon the referendum result.

There have been a million opportunities to deliver it on a slightly longer timescale.

But what does one do with a recalcitrant House? Let it govern regardless, apparently, because said House won't allow a general election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2019, 03:43:34 pm

184 bomb deeds so far this year in Sweden (https://www.svtplay.se/video/24273829/veckans-brott/veckans-brott-avsnitt-1-1).

Since iirc SvT (Swedish public television) isn't available outside in the world, here's an article with similar here's an article with similar statistics (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/skane/kraftig-okning-av-antalet-sprangdad) but from a few months ago.

184 bombings in 304 days. More than one bombing every other day.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 31, 2019, 04:19:54 pm

Out of curiosity, is there any link to Sweden's immigration problem?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2019, 05:04:56 pm

Yes, I would think so, but to my mind it's likely not related to any recent business like the 2015 crisis -- this is a long time coming, the result of ~20 years of failed integration politics. The bombings are likely perpetrated by people who's born here or has been here since childhood. These are criminals using bombs instead of knives or guns to get at other criminals, not terrorists, by the way. Still does plenty of terrorising of course, and bombs are a lot less discriminative in who they hit than knives or guns.

There's a part of me who sees the huge rise in explosive use in the last year and immediately think "returning ISIS members coming back with training at know-how", but that's me drawing conclusions that I have no idea how true they are. It's just the coincidence of the timing combined with the facts that Sweden had the some of the most ISIS joinups per capita in Europe and that the majority of people who left already had criminal records. But I can't stress enough how much hypothesising that is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 03, 2019, 10:06:29 pm

Are grue attacks up in the UK or something? (https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65826048.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on November 03, 2019, 10:18:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on November 03, 2019, 10:06:29 pm

Are grue attacks up in the UK or something? (https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65826048.html)

What does this have to do with grues?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on November 04, 2019, 04:40:34 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on November 03, 2019, 10:18:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on November 03, 2019, 10:06:29 pm

Are grue attacks up in the UK or something? (https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65826048.html)

What does this have to do with grues?

grues live in darkness

and that advert is really pushing how much light there is, mentioning related terms about 5 times, and all the pictures are almost blindingly bright.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 04, 2019, 09:06:21 am

Quote from: Reelya on November 04, 2019, 04:40:34 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on November 03, 2019, 10:18:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on November 03, 2019, 10:06:29 pm

Are grue attacks up in the UK or something? (https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65826048.html)

What does this have to do with grues?

grues live in darkness

and that advert is really pushing how much light there is, mentioning related terms about 5 times, and all the pictures are almost blindingly bright.

And the ceilings are half lightbulbs, with outlets (I assume for lamps) every 5 inches on average.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on November 04, 2019, 09:07:21 am

Ah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 06, 2019, 01:09:30 pm

I was passed out sick half the day yesterday, so today I'll wish a happy belated knock-off Bastille day to everyone in the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 06, 2019, 04:34:18 pm

Quote from: Iduno on November 06, 2019, 01:09:30 pm

I was passed out sick half the day yesterday, so today I'll wish a happy belated knock-off Bastille day to everyone in the UK.

Hans is very happy for your celebration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 22, 2019, 08:46:44 am

https://nyheteridag.se/iraqi-defense-minister-is-receiving-welfare-in-sweden-investigated-by-police/

I still don't know who's furthest down the memehole, sweden or uk. Maybe we can just share the #1 trophy as we ban spoons and set fire to our hospitals

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 25, 2019, 03:06:13 pm

I was initially cautious of that story because of the source, but yesterday it was confirmed by authorities and was all over the news. Yeah, it's true. He's also investigated on charges of war crime and was charged with harrassment/assault equivalent charges here in Sweden that was dropped, allegedly because of pressure put on the victim.

Yeah, he seems like a great dude, don't he.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 25, 2019, 03:36:10 pm

Isn't that the fellow who got into a spot of trouble recently by propositioning a 16-year-old boy for "I want to fuck you sex sex sex"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 25, 2019, 03:39:52 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 25, 2019, 03:36:10 pm

Isn't that the fellow who got into a spot of trouble recently by propositioning a 16-year-old boy for "I want to fuck you sex sex sex"?

Look, sure he sounds like a creep when you take that sentence out of context. But also if you take it with context.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 26, 2019, 09:03:41 am

Quote from: Iduno on November 25, 2019, 03:39:52 pm

Quote from: Kagus on November 25, 2019, 03:36:10 pm

Isn't that the fellow who got into a spot of trouble recently by propositioning a 16-year-old boy for "I want to fuck you sex sex sex"?

Look, sure he sounds like a creep when you take that sentence out of context. But also if you take it with context.

Real world tales are bound by no obligation to be believable


*EDIT
Germany has just befallen the greatest art heist in a century (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50557436), as thieves loot numerous irreplaceable items of HRE heritage. With a material value of a billion euros - it is likely the priceless items will be broken down, melted and resold, never to be seen again

*EDITx2
British "socialite" Lady Colin Campbell defends Prince Andrew & Epstein, saying soliciting sex from minors is prostitution, not paedophilia. As punishment, christmas lights onning privileges are revoked (https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/20/lady-colin-campbell-dropped-christmas-lights-job-paedophilia-comments-11186878/). This some semantic voodoo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2019, 04:40:03 am

As far as I know people are usually considered to be in charge of their own consent earlier than the age of majority in most places. Soliciting sex from minors are usually seen as a particularly heinous crime even if the minor is past the age of consent.

So yeah. Even if it's not technically paedophilia because the girl in primce Andrew's case wasn't a 14-year-old (and I have no idea what age the girl in question was, I'm just assuming here) you're still coming off as trying to cover up the fact that he solicited sex from a minor behind a curtain of "but it's not the exact worst case scenario Epstein was accused of you guys" seems like a perty weak defense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

Perhaps the wrong place to put this, but it's tangentially relevant. There's a socially-accepted relationship rule of half your age plus seven. He was 50 at the time, so he can get a 32 yo according to this rule.

Using this incredibly rough tool, we see what was already obvious. That fella was outta line. Ofc the rule ssems flawed too.

I'm 23, and that means I can date an 18.5 yo. I wonder whether that would be socially accepted though?

A bit of a garbled argument here, but I'm on phone so not gonna fix it XD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on November 27, 2019, 08:00:19 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

I'm 23, and that means I can date an 18.5 yo. I wonder whether that would be socially accepted though?

Literally nobody over that age gives the first shit if a 23 year old and an 18 year old are going out. The age different might seem big when you are that age but not many older people actually discern you as being that much older.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

Perhaps the wrong place to put this, but it's tangentially relevant. There's a socially-accepted relationship rule of half your age plus seven. He was 50 at the time, so he can get a 32 yo according to this rule.

I think he was 40 at the time, not 50: it was 2001 and he's 59 now. So ~27 by the rule not 32.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 27, 2019, 08:45:18 am

Quote from: scriver on November 27, 2019, 04:40:03 am

So yeah. Even if it's not technically paedophilia because the girl in primce Andrew's case wasn't a 14-year-old (and I have no idea what age the girl in question was, I'm just assuming here) you're still coming off as trying to cover up the fact that he solicited sex from a minor behind a curtain of "but it's not the exact worst case scenario Epstein was accused of you guys" seems like a perty weak defense.

Bearing in mind there was not just 1 girl, Epstein was running a whole ring with at least 80 girls, usually age 12-14. Epstein was also in the business of filming his friends having sex with children so as to have blackmail material on them later. To have the blackmail hold legal teeth on Prince Andrew the girls would have to at least be younger than 16. Pity Epstein died when he did, there's so much more we don't know yet.

Neat breakdown of Andrew's trainwreck of an interview where he stumbles over his own lies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-y2g9Ot5GA). He's accused of having sex with eight girls, one of which who has come forward publicly to say she was trafficked into sex. We also know Andrew visited Epstein by his own admission at least 3 times a year, and continued to stay at his mansion for week long stays after he knew Epstein was convicted of a lesser charge (prostitution) to his known crimes (sex with minors, human trafficking), supposedly to tell Epstein face to face that they could not associate with one another any longer.

Now you obviously don't want to shout fire just because there's smoke, but that's a shit ton of smoke with some embers and heat coming out the oven. We can pray that this'll bleed over onto Trump and Clinton

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 10:08:37 am

Quote from: Reelya on November 27, 2019, 08:00:19 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

I'm 23, and that means I can date an 18.5 yo. I wonder whether that would be socially accepted though?

Literally nobody over that age gives the first shit if a 23 year old and an 18 year old are going out. The age different might seem big when you are that age but not many older people actually discern you as being that much older.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

Perhaps the wrong place to put this, but it's tangentially relevant. There's a socially-accepted relationship rule of half your age plus seven. He was 50 at the time, so he can get a 32 yo according to this rule.

I think he was 40 at the time, not 50: it was 2001 and he's 59 now. So ~27 by the rule not 32.

Whoops, I read it as 2010.

Also, interesting about the age convention thing. There actually is an 18 year old trying to get my attention, but I assumed that was a weird difference in ages. Like, I just finished Uni and she's about to start, for instance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on November 27, 2019, 01:23:03 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 10:08:37 am

Quote from: Reelya on November 27, 2019, 08:00:19 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

I'm 23, and that means I can date an 18.5 yo. I wonder whether that would be socially accepted though?

Literally nobody over that age gives the first shit if a 23 year old and an 18 year old are going out. The age different might seem big when you are that age but not many older people actually discern you as being that much older.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 06:31:40 am

Perhaps the wrong place to put this, but it's tangentially relevant. There's a socially-accepted relationship rule of half your age plus seven. He was 50 at the time, so he can get a 32 yo according to this rule.

I think he was 40 at the time, not 50: it was 2001 and he's 59 now. So ~27 by the rule not 32.

Whoops, I read it as 2010.

Also, interesting about the age convention thing. There actually is an 18 year old trying to get my attention, but I assumed that was a weird difference in ages. Like, I just finished Uni and she's about to start, for instance.

It really boils down to power dynamics - you don't want to be in a relationship where one partner has far more power than the other. I doubt that would be the case in this instance, but that's my thought.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 01:41:55 pm

So everybody excited to get confirmation that B O I R I S is going to sell the NHS to American healthcare cartels during Brexit? I mean, anybody with three or more neurons could have just assumed that was true from the start, but its nice to have it on paper.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 27, 2019, 02:31:34 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 01:41:55 pm

So everybody excited to get confirmation that B O I R I S is going to sell the NHS to American healthcare cartels during Brexit? I mean, anybody with three or more neurons could have just assumed that was true from the start, but its nice to have it on paper.

Well, I mean, it's nice that Trump gets a consolation gift after Denmark was mean and didn't let him buy Greenland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 27, 2019, 05:13:37 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 01:41:55 pm

So everybody excited to get confirmation that B O I R I S is going to sell the NHS to American healthcare cartels during Brexit? I mean, anybody with three or more neurons could have just assumed that was true from the start, but its nice to have it on paper.

No; to say it is Boris would be overly optimistic. I'm afraid it's the conservative party, & indeed the American healthcare system itself, which is seeking the privatisation of the NHS. Boris will be here today and gone tomorrow and we still will face this threat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 05:15:42 pm

Boris is just a man. B O R I S however is a blood printed god, the flesh and bone of the isles. He has always been here, beneath the mists that the Druids dare not walk. He will always be here, his corruption echoing through the minds of his children for eternity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 05:19:58 pm

Is there an article on this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 27, 2019, 06:06:39 pm

For what it's worth, given the structure of the NHS I dont think you're facing an overt privatization. More likely they'll try something like the Alzira model, aka "externalizing hospital management". Which is... bullshit tbh, but is certainly reversible. In fact the original Alzira hospital was reverted back a while ago


Edit: a quick search shows that there are several webpages of people lobbying to apply the alzira model to the nhs. Surprise surprise

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 27, 2019, 06:07:21 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 05:15:42 pm

Boris is just a man. B O R I S however is a blood printed god, the flesh and bone of the isles. He has always been here, beneath the mists that the Druids dare not walk. He will always be here, his corruption echoing through the minds of his children for eternity.

M A G N A   B O R I S   B A N T R

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 05:19:58 pm

Is there an article on this?

Quote

Labour has obtained official documents showing that the US is demanding that the NHS will be “on the table” in talks on a post-Brexit trade deal, Jeremy Corbyn has said.

It's from Corbyn who has an axe to grind with the tories, so take it with a grain of salt, (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/27/jeremy-corbyn-reveals-dossier-proving-nhs-up-for-sale) but it's not exactly a controversial idea that the conservatives are getting lobbied to privatise the NHS. Going back to David Cameron times, advisors to senior tories tended to walk in and out of a revolving door of health companies, government advisory roles & health lobbying firms (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/nov/23/david-cameron-privatisation-adviser-health-lobbyist)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 06:58:58 pm

Surely Le Boris De Johnson knows that it would be political suicide?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 07:05:58 pm

What political suicide? The Tories return to 45% popularity every couple of weeks no matter what they actually do. People love Boris, allegedly.

I have no fucking idea why, but there it is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on November 27, 2019, 07:09:56 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 07:05:58 pm

What political suicide? The Tories return to 45% popularity every couple of weeks no matter what they actually do. People love Boris, allegedly.

I have no fucking idea why, but there it is.

That is not dead which can eternal lie to the public, and with strange aeons even normal people will vote Tory.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 07:16:54 pm

Juxtapose Boris with the last few PMs. That's why people 'allegedly' love him.

He has character, considerable charisma (no matter how strange that seems) and a wit which he deliberately wraps in humour. I like Boris. I don't agree with him 100%, but I do like him.

I suppose the problem arises when people can not disassociate the two.

Still. I think his popularity would take a major hit if he tampered with the NHS. I mean, that's part of why people like him. His various promises to better fund the NHS.

Edit: Though I'm not sure how much can be inferred from the source material, tbf.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 07:23:56 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 07:16:54 pm

He has character, considerable charisma (no matter how strange that seems) and a wit which he deliberately wraps in humour. I like Boris. I don't agree with him 100%, but I do like him.

I'm sorry Britposters. There's nothing we can do for you now. Look...don't tell NI. At that age, switching homes I mean...would they even know the difference? Better to spare them the trauma.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 27, 2019, 07:32:30 pm

I'm not certain on what you mean. Are you referring to Boris' NI policies?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 28, 2019, 07:45:03 am

Honestly I think the Tories will continue to hover at 45% for as long as they hold brexit hostage. Wonder what their polls will look like in 2314 when we finally leave the Europa Cybernetic Colony

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 28, 2019, 08:37:32 am

Man who was minister of migration at the time al-Shammari received residence permit demands current, new government answer for how something like this could ever happen (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/m-kraver-svar-av-regeringen-om-iraks-forsvarminister)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 28, 2019, 10:18:22 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on November 27, 2019, 07:05:58 pm

What political suicide? The Tories return to 45% popularity every couple of weeks no matter what they actually do. People love Boris, allegedly.

I have no fucking idea why, but there it is.

"Sure it's bad for everyone including me, but the other option would be good for them."

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 27, 2019, 07:16:54 pm

Still. I think his popularity would take a major hit if he tampered with the NHS. I mean, that's part of why people like him. His various promises to better fund the NHS.

He'll fund it. Just not for taxpayers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2019, 01:21:42 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 28, 2019, 08:37:32 am

Man who was minister of migration at the time al-Shammari received residence permit demands current, new government answer for how something like this could ever happen (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/m-kraver-svar-av-regeringen-om-iraks-forsvarminister)

Answer: too much vodka

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 30, 2019, 01:37:34 pm

WITH THE STEEL CHAIR (https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1200820849022001154)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 30, 2019, 05:21:05 pm

I love that average British people think they're going to get the same healthcare as American millionaires, without realizing which part of that phrase is the important one. I've got an HMO. They're probably better doctors than me, a person who never studied medicine. Enjoy dying so the rich can be slightly better off, dipshits.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2019, 05:27:34 pm

...what even?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 30, 2019, 06:46:37 pm

I don't know that we think we will get anything of the sort.

Certainly we think we should get the same treatment, and are actively working towards that, however unlikely.

...

Though it does strike me that I am doing your comment too great a service in replying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 30, 2019, 07:20:48 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 30, 2019, 06:46:37 pm

I don't know that we think we will get anything of the sort.

Certainly we think we should get the same treatment, and are actively working towards that, however unlikely.

...

Though it does strike me that I am doing your comment too great a service in replying.

Could be I hear too many people with bad opinions who want to ditch the NHS for a more American-style healthcare where you get care as good as you can afford.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on November 30, 2019, 07:24:39 pm

Dealing with the US health industry is like the exact opposite of actively working towards getting that sort of treatment for anyone who can't already just fly over, anyway. That's not how you get the high end services, its how you fuck your health services into the ground and spike your country's medical bankruptcies :V

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 30, 2019, 07:34:48 pm

I think British people are quite happy to not go into debt whenever they get sick, positively correlating with the extent to which they get sick.

Like, I live in the US, I’m a British citizen. If I get sick enough that it requires extended treatment, I will spend the pennies on a plane ticket because fuck the noise that is health insurance premiums and deductibles.

This is the reason why the Tories are harping on about the NHS not being up for sale in a future US-UK trade agreement, because that would be political suicide on their part.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 30, 2019, 07:40:18 pm

In spite of the fact that the Ories are definitely going to sell the NHS in a post-Brexit trade agreement. They just have to get through the food riots phase with enough boomers still alive, and then with that crisis in mind can just say Britain can no longer afford the fiscal irresponsibility of the NHS which has plagued it for decades.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2019, 05:11:09 am

Nah, they won't even say that. It'll just be an efficient restructuring for cost-saving proposals that'll streamline our world class services with a string of nice buzzwords

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 01, 2019, 05:44:47 am

Like I said, they'll probably "externalize management"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 01, 2019, 12:51:22 pm

Didn’t take the British politicians long to politicize a tragedy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2019, 12:57:25 pm

Gotta be tough on hate, terror and other emotions^TM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 09, 2019, 12:14:18 pm

Quote from: Halaratha on December 09, 2019, 10:05:26 am

NHS fun fact - the accounting and statistics-related arm of the NHS (not an easy group to define, there are hazy borders so forgive me) consumes at least 5-10% (lowballing) of the annual budget, likely substantially more. In France there exists a far less comprehensive level of statistics with respect to exact spending per patient and spending per GP practice,hospital etc.  Here's the thing - employing people to find inefficiencies in the system is good but, if you go into too much detail, the costs of knowing begin to outweigh the increased efficiency. Sure the GP practice could save £5 by better distributing resources so they're not wasted, but it might cost £10 to catalogue and know exactly which resources are where. There's a middle-ground to strike, and the Conservative method of NHS management seems to have upped the needless bureaucracy arm to 11 imo. What DF and many other games fail on a massive scale to show you is that statistics aren't free.

For a more glaring example: in the US (and probably elsewhere), companies and government agencies buy through a contract to make sure people are not taking bribes in order to pay extra. These contracts usually involve buying things for 400-500% of the normal price for the exact same item, and forbids buying through non-contract options.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2019, 07:40:28 pm

There's a common joke on Yes Minister, where the government minister tries to make the government more cost-efficient so they hire more civil servants to investigate how to make the government more cost-efficient

Also in completely unrelated news, I find it amusing that I had far too many students in their 40s and 50s who denied animals are going extinct today, while I just read a translated extract from a Greek 1,600 years ago complaining that lions had gone extinct in Europe

The Greeks were really ahead of their time

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 11, 2019, 02:51:50 am

We used to have elephants

elephants

Super cure elephants

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 11, 2019, 03:27:52 am

Elephants? We used to have wooly mammoths. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on December 11, 2019, 07:45:59 am

We used to have ground sloths

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 11, 2019, 05:51:47 pm

Well. Tomorrow's the day. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWeptmVHb9o)

Come good or ill, here's to you, Jezza. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o0D0GEOR7I)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 12, 2019, 03:56:17 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on December 11, 2019, 07:45:59 am

We used to have ground sloths

I haven't climbed up into a tree yet

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 08:02:13 am

Back in the day we didn't climb down from trees

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 09:06:42 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 08:02:13 am

Back in the day we didn't climb down from trees

Even the trees were a bad move. No one should have left the oceans.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on December 12, 2019, 09:49:14 am

We didn't, the oceans left us. They'll be back, some day...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on December 12, 2019, 09:54:44 am

Quote from: Frumple on December 12, 2019, 09:49:14 am

We didn't, the oceans left us. They'll be back, some day...

They didn't even say a proper goodbye! They just waved.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on December 12, 2019, 09:58:45 am

If you ask me, I think we’ll be seaing them again soon.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 12, 2019, 10:24:45 am

I suspect that in the near future, as the forumites get ever longer in the tooth, the entire lower boards content will end up being one never ending string of bad puns and dad jokes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 10:59:33 am

Quote from: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 09:06:42 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 08:02:13 am

Back in the day we didn't climb down from trees

Even the trees were a bad move. No one should have left the oceans.

Becoming multicellular organisms was a bad move, I tell you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 11:59:54 am

Quote from: Il Palazzo on December 12, 2019, 10:24:45 am

I suspect that in the near future, as the forumites get ever longer in the tooth, the entire lower boards content will end up being one never ending string of bad puns and dad jokes.

And cultural references to dead authors. I wasn't sure if I should go with this or, "Ignore this guy, he still thinks digital watches are a pretty neat idea."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2019, 01:24:41 pm

So, uh, Britain is having 'the most important general election evar!', last I heard about polling (which was a month ago at least I think) the conservatives were ahead, but could go either way.

Also, looks like the UK doesn't ban election ads on election day as they do here?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

Didn't BBC run anti-voting PSAs? And lie about one of the candidates?

I don't think rules still apply, is what I'm saying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 02:40:19 pm

I am the senate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on December 12, 2019, 02:58:02 pm

Quote from: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

Didn't BBC run anti-voting PSAs? And lie about one of the candidates?

I don't think rules still apply, is what I'm saying.

What? When?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 03:10:31 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on December 12, 2019, 02:58:02 pm

Quote from: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

Didn't BBC run anti-voting PSAs? And lie about one of the candidates?

I don't think rules still apply, is what I'm saying.

What? When?

Who? Why?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 03:59:10 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on December 12, 2019, 02:58:02 pm

Quote from: Iduno on December 12, 2019, 02:35:37 pm

Didn't BBC run anti-voting PSAs? And lie about one of the candidates?

I don't think rules still apply, is what I'm saying.

What? When?

Right near the end of voter registration, they were posting stuff about voting being boring and pointless, and asking what people would rather be doing. I'm not saying it's what they were doing, but if you were to try to dissuade younger voters (the ones who aren't registered yet) to prevent them from changing the status quo, that's how you'd do it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on December 12, 2019, 04:13:24 pm

Ah, and here I thought the BBC was about posting information, not dissuading democracy. Lesson is to never assume that anyone does anything without an agenda

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: smjjames on December 12, 2019, 04:24:44 pm

Sounds like one of those commentator things that they attach to articles from time to time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 12, 2019, 06:20:58 pm

UK exit polls suggest a +40ish Tory majority.

BoJo Brexit Time, it seems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 06:33:21 pm

UK is kill.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on December 12, 2019, 06:45:18 pm

Looking like it. Enjoy the economic down turn and hits to social services, please try not to splash the rest of the world as you sink yourself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on December 12, 2019, 06:47:35 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 06:33:21 pm

UK is kill.

apology for poor english.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 12, 2019, 06:56:53 pm

Quote from: Frumple on December 12, 2019, 06:45:18 pm

Looking like it. Enjoy the economic down turn and hits to social services, please try not to splash the rest of the world as you sink yourself.

Our economy, on news of the 80-odd likely Tory majority, did a nosedive.

Upwards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 12, 2019, 09:29:02 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 12, 2019, 06:56:53 pm

Quote from: Frumple on December 12, 2019, 06:45:18 pm

Looking like it. Enjoy the economic down turn and hits to social services, please try not to splash the rest of the world as you sink yourself.

Our economy, on news of the 80-odd likely Tory majority, did a nosedive.

Upwards.

The pound rose against the dollar, to $1.35, and rose against the Euro to the value it was a couple of months prior to Article 50 being enacted. Probably a reaction to the most certainty there's been in the last three years.

This is also, of course, prior to the Brexit deal at the end of January, after which nobody knows how imports and exports work to and from Europe, and we don't know how to process goods to and from Northern Ireland.

Then 11 months 'til Brexit actual at the end of the year, for a Canada-style deal which took the Canadians 7 years to hammer out.

I imagine the NHS will be sold out to the Americans, too.

Edit: Jo Swinson, Lib Dem leader, self-described challenger for the office of prime minister, lost her seat in Dunbartonshire East to the SNP, by 149 votes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 11:01:31 pm

Scotland gets 55 out of 59 seats for the SNP

Quote

The pound rose against the dollar, to $1.35, and rose against the Euro to the value it was a couple of months prior to Article 50 being enacted. Probably a reaction to the most certainty there's been in the last three years.

  yeah I agree with this reading. For the market this is good news insofar as it voids a hung parlament, probably

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 12, 2019, 11:03:40 pm

They've revised that down to 52.

Or 53, they don't seem sure. Scotland's apparently challenging to poll.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 11:05:00 pm

It's still an amazingly good result for the SNP, isn't it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

SNP is more of a win by default in my eyes. It's not exactly like Scottish Tories or LibDem have any chance of doing anything unless they get handed a strategic vote scenario. SNP wins because Labour loses. Still a good staging ground for the independence fight they're likely going to embark on now, though.

Frankly, I'm hoping for a dissolution of the UK after tonight. There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 12, 2019, 11:10:29 pm

On the one hand, sure. The Scots have taken their time, but they know that the main British parties can't represent them properly in Westminster, and it gives them a strong hand going forward, especially into the 2021 Scottish elections.

On the other hand, it won't change anything because the Tories have nothing to lose by ignoring Scotland saying they don't want to come out of the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 12, 2019, 11:17:57 pm

What about an Indyref2? That was part of the SNP's campaign and it would seem to suggest that the idea is gaining track among the Scottish, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 12, 2019, 11:43:23 pm

I think that being part of their campaign was more to see whether or not it was a turn off.

To put it bluntly, The Tories are cancer in Scotland, and Boris Johnson is the biggest tumour. The Tories were never going to do well - their haul of 13 seats in 2017 was their best performance since 1992, when they won 11 seats - and Labour, despite being the powerhouse in Scotland since WWII, don't seem to be able to convince the Scots they're any better.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2019, 06:28:43 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

I always find it amusing when people forget about the Welsh.

Not to mention the 1,367,764 people in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 13, 2019, 07:16:42 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 13, 2019, 06:28:43 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

I always find it amusing when people forget about the Welsh.

Not to mention the 1,367,764 people in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Lol.

Which was opposed to who, the Cornish revolutionaries?

Lol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 13, 2019, 07:20:18 am

Children of the Corn?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 13, 2019, 09:35:54 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on December 12, 2019, 04:13:24 pm

Ah, and here I thought the BBC was about posting information, not dissuading democracy. Lesson is to never assume that anyone does anything without an agenda

It turns out that government programs have the downside of being controlled by politicians, and may have to serve those politicians or get cancelled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 13, 2019, 09:46:31 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

Frankly, I'm hoping for a dissolution of the UK after tonight. There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

It's a very Murrican idea to explode a country because they elected the wrong candidate ;d

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Yoink on December 13, 2019, 09:59:24 am

Congrats on the election result, fellas! :)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 13, 2019, 10:21:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 13, 2019, 09:46:31 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

Frankly, I'm hoping for a dissolution of the UK after tonight. There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

It's a very Murrican idea to explode a country because they elected the wrong candidate ;d

I have purified the role of Americans in the human mileu, not as the world's policeman, but its executioner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 13, 2019, 10:51:50 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 13, 2019, 10:21:52 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 13, 2019, 09:46:31 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

Frankly, I'm hoping for a dissolution of the UK after tonight. There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

It's a very Murrican idea to explode a country because they elected the wrong candidate ;d

I have purified the role of Americans in the human mileu, not as the world's policeman, but its executioner.

https://youtu.be/S5HEz9HBVlc (https://youtu.be/S5HEz9HBVlc)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2019, 10:54:58 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 13, 2019, 07:16:42 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 13, 2019, 06:28:43 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 12, 2019, 11:08:13 pm

There's no saving the English from themselves, but the rest don't deserve to burn with them.

I always find it amusing when people forget about the Welsh.

Not to mention the 1,367,764 people in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Lol.

Which was opposed to who, the Cornish revolutionaries?

Lol.

Yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 13, 2019, 03:36:56 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 13, 2019, 10:21:52 am

I have purified the role of Americans in the human mileu, not as the world's policeman, but its executioner.

You make it sound so cool but I know it's really just a US serviceman getting four boots a day while the locals are flooded with more guns than a wizard has immorality

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 20, 2019, 04:52:27 pm

Brexit bill is approved by House of Commons. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50870939) Extension is "banned".

---

Surprise! Mandatory voter photo ID in the UK incoming. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html)

On one hand, welcome to the ID club AKA most of the world.

On the other hand, alleged voter suppression and 2006 Identity Card Act 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Opposition screams it's a solution in search of an insignificant problem.

And I agree, the number of impersonation attempts is small.

But if you do the math...

Spoiler: Math (click to show/hide)

From the UK electoral commission (https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data/2017-electoral-fraud-data) and the police data (https://master-7rqtwti-qicelq4x33qps.eu-2.platformsh.site/sites/default/files/excel_doc/2017-data-on-allegations-of-electoral-fraud-website.xlsx):

There were 22 reports (0.7 ppm) of voter impersonation at poll stations in 2017 UK parliamentary election.

One conviction, two under investigation, one locally resolved, four false positives, one is unclear, 13 lack evidence.

No information on false negative rate i.e. out of all fraudulent votes, how many go unreported or undetected. In other words, there's no information on how insensitive the voter fraud detection system is.

What we really want to know, is how many successfully cast votes were fraudulent? (AKA the false omission rate)

---

Let F = Fraudulent vote

Let D = Fraud detected

Bayes law:

P(F|not D) = P(not D | F)*P(F)/P(not D)

Law of total probability:

P(F) = P(F | not D)*P(not D) + P(F | D)*P(D)

Thus:

P(F|not D) = P(not D | F)*(P(F | not D)*P(not D) + P(F | D)*P(D))/P(not D)

= P(not D | F)*P(F | not D) + P(not D | F)*P(F | D)*P(D)/P(not D)

<=>

(1 - P(not D | F))*P(F | not D) = P(not D | F)*P(F | D)*P(D)/P(not D)

<=>

P(F | not D) = P(F | D) * [P(not D | F)/(1 - P(not D | F))] * [P(D)/(1 - P(D))]

---

In other words,

False omission rate = Precision * False Negative Rate/Sensitivity * Detection Rate/Undetection Rate

Useful definitions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity)

(Detection rate = (TP + FP)/(P + N), Undetection rate = (FN + TN)/(P + N))

---

So far:

Precision >= 1/22 (=1/5 if inconclusive or unclear reports are excluded)

False Negative Rate and Sensitivity are unknown. (97% and 3% respectively if using NYC DOI data (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doi/reports/pdf/2013/2013-12-30-BOE_Unit_Report.pdf)). Generally difficult to acquire due to the legality of the means of information collection required.

Detection rate is about 0.7 ppm

Undetection rate is about 1 - 0.7 ppm or approximately 1.

Throwing caution to the wind and using the "conclusive" precision and NYC data, the rate of successfully cast votes (AKA false omission rate) is approximately 4 ppm.

A more conservative measure using the lower bound for precision gives a false omission rate of 1 ppm.

Assuming furthermore a false negative rate of 50% and 10% gives a false omission rate of 0.03 ppm and 0.003 ppm.

If all cases that lack evidence were also fraudulent, then using the 97%, 50%, and 10% false negative rates, the false omission rates are 20 ppm, 0.6 ppm, 0.06 ppm.

Which value should we believe? Well, assuming that all poll books are accurate, there is no voter ID law, the probability that the poll worker knows the voter is negligible, and the poll worker makes no mistakes (no false positives), then the probability of getting detected is equal to the probability of the fraudulent voter using an identity that has already voted (and gotten marked in the poll books).

Assume for simplicity that all sincere voters have already voted. Then the probability of getting detected is equal to #Voters/#Eligible voters AKA the turnout. Sort of, since we're not accounting for fraudulent voters using the same non-voter false identities. It makes it simpler, however, and the difference is negligible for almost all elections.

This is all assuming the fraudulent voter is using random names from that district (which they probably won't).

In any case, the probability of a fraudulent voter successfully casting a vote is thus 1 - Turnout, and this we can use as an estimate of the False Negative Rate and consequentially the Sensitivity = Turnout.

In 2017, the turnout was 68.8% and thus the false negative rate is estimated to be 31.2%.

The precision varies from 1/22 to 18/22. We can thus estimate it to be 19/44 +- 17/44.

The false omission rate in 2017 is estimated to be 0.1 ppm +- 90% (utter garbage).

Or to put it another way, the expected value of the number of successfully cast fraudulent votes in the 2017 UK parliamentary election is zero to eight votes, rounded to closest integer.

Until proper research is done on the false negative rate, this is the best garbage estimate that I can make.

Then we expect there to be 0-8 fraudulent votes in the 2017 UK Parliamentary election that didn't get picked up by the anti-voter impersonation measures at poll stations at the time. Enough to swing at least North East Fife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_East_Fife_(UK_Parliament_constituency)) from SNP to Lib Dem, a constituency with a vote margin of two votes in 2017.

List of other close elections. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_close_election_results)

So yes, insignificant in numbers, but not so insignificant in effect.

It's a paradox to claim that all votes matter, but a single fraudulent vote does not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 20, 2019, 05:39:15 pm

The net benefit of voter ID would be in weighing the number of fraudulent votes cast without it, which is impossible, with the number of people who wouldn’t vote because of voter ID laws, which is also impossible.

It is a stupid idea.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 20, 2019, 06:13:56 pm

Well many countries run national ID schemes, which you have to use to vote, but which you get by default by virtue of having a citizenship. Like the passport, if you like. I.. honestly don't see it as a big deal, never understood why the idea is so unpopular in English-speaking countries...

Heck, why not use passports as ID, for that matter? Just asking

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 20, 2019, 06:33:58 pm

You can of course get a free ID.

In Finland, all you need is a photo (<6 months old) and a few minutes down at the local police station (which you can book in advance online). They'll identify you--immensely helped by our population information system--and issue a free, temporary ID specifically for voting.

You're encouraged to get a passport, though. 45 € if done electronically, including a visit to the police station if necessary.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 20, 2019, 06:44:01 pm

I suppose though it does catch out people who procrastinate or for whatever reasons are pressed for time. Registering to vote after you move into a new county or borough for example is really easy and can be done on the day of the deadline, but renewing a passport takes time and must be done in advance

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2019, 06:00:10 am

Procrastinators are the worst kind of people though. One of these days I'll get around to getting rid of them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 21, 2019, 10:24:38 am

Quote from: scriver on December 21, 2019, 06:00:10 am

Procrastinators are the worst kind of people though. One of these days I'll get around to getting rid of them.

If you think about it, procrastination has been turned into a cardinal sin in order to squeeze out more productivity of the working person. The idea that someone wanting to do anything but work as being absolutely haram is an idea born out of the tyranny of the clock; that our time should not belong to ourselves, but instead belong to the pressure of deadlines

We should resolve this! Tomorrow

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 21, 2019, 10:38:23 am

Quote from: scriver on December 21, 2019, 06:00:10 am

Procrastinators are the worst kind of people though. One of these days I'll get around to getting rid of them.

Agreed. Procastinators will be brutally murdered, alongside all those that oppose my philosophy of strict nonviolence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 21, 2019, 10:48:42 am

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/e1/91/77e191ccb4a07c689ece0d530b805704.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 21, 2019, 02:18:50 pm

Many states that implement voter ID laws have a list of acceptable forms of ID, which is often used to boss the possible voter pool. For example, some states allow a concealed carry permit to be valid ID. In addition, even if the voting ID is "free", you often can't get it online, and the available locations are often only open during work hours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 23, 2019, 08:39:29 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on December 21, 2019, 02:18:50 pm

Many states that implement voter ID laws have a list of acceptable forms of ID, which is often used to boss the possible voter pool. For example, some states allow a concealed carry permit to be valid ID. In addition, even if the voting ID is "free", you often can't get it online, and the available locations are often only open during work hours.

Yeah, 2 forms of ID here to get an ID card, only available during business hours, only available in English, sometimes documents get "lost" repeatedly if you've got the wrong skin color. I think it only takes a month or two to get to you otherwise.

I don't think they'll let you get away with voting using just that ID, though. And they post armed police around the voting areas to intimidate potential voters.


Edit: A more interesting thing I've seen tried is elections only count if won by a certain percentage of the vote. Too many thing can go wrong with close votes, including fraud by voters or election officials.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 26, 2019, 01:58:02 pm

Happy Halloween Merry Xmas from the Royal Family. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMimaCHXYAYs6jo.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on December 26, 2019, 09:38:50 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 20, 2019, 06:13:56 pm

Well many countries run national ID schemes, which you have to use to vote, but which you get by default by virtue of having a citizenship. Like the passport, if you like. I.. honestly don't see it as a big deal, never understood why the idea is so unpopular in English-speaking countries...

Heck, why not use passports as ID, for that matter? Just asking

Passports are expensive. I'll cite some details about the American situation. relatively few Americans have them. There are several hundreds of dollars worth of fees to even get one. About half of Americans say they've never left the country, so only about half the nation even has a passport. It would be equivalent to a poll tax of several hundred dollars.
https://www.rushmypassport.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-get-a-passport/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/#750a91742898
^ greater than 50% of American don't have a passport. So it's a very bad idea to "just" use a passport, for America. I live in Australia, I don't have a passport either, and it would cost me about $300 to get one.

 If you look at the American statistics the sheer number of people lacking any proper ID is quite large. The Republicans like it because the people without ID tend to be in the Democrat voting camp: poor people, seniors, minorities, and women - due to things like marriage and divorce, so they're less likely to have cards with their "correct" name on it, and you can just bet the Republicans will be sticklers for not accepting your word on name changes when a black woman turns up to vote but it's in her maiden name or married name and she's changed status in the meantime.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 26, 2019, 09:44:50 pm

The voter ID laws are bad, but even as incompetent as they are the Dems can work around with showering people with ID forms and petitioning through courts to accept any scrap of paper with a name on it that was at one point touched by a government official as voter ID. Plus the laws are discarded as unconstitutional by any non-Republican judge outright.

The real fucked thing is just not setting up polling places at all in areas where black people or students live, and oversaturating boomervilles with voting booths in every church, retirement home, and country club.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on December 27, 2019, 08:48:56 am

Hadn't heard that criticism. Wonder if there's a map out there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 27, 2019, 10:05:42 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on December 27, 2019, 08:48:56 am

Hadn't heard that criticism. Wonder if there's a map out there.

Not quite a map, but I do have this article about an incident in Georgia: Article (https://www.theroot.com/georgia-board-of-elections-nixes-plans-to-shut-down-7-o-1828599334)

In addition, many voting machines shipped to majority minority counties arrived without power cords, and despite long lines, they didn't even ship out all the machines. Granted, some of them are messed up, but it's still hella shady.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 27, 2019, 10:13:59 am

Well, anything with voting machines is automatically fucked anyway. Bush and co. are heavily connected to a company that makes them and there was some statistic along the lines that Bush didn't lose a single county in 04 that used the machines from that company. Everyone knows electronic machines can modify the count, which is why you have occasional incidents of Republicans frantically scrambling to order paper ballots destroyed in cases where both kinds are kept.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 27, 2019, 10:49:34 am

Well, keeping the debate more in Georgia, our old, broken voting machines were originally proposed to be replaced with a paper ballot (very nice, yes, some machines related, but more secure) and somehow, a voting machine company that our governor's son works for got a multi-million contract for a non-paper based machine. :Bigthonk:

So yeah, voting machines are unreliable and great for giving government money to your buddies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 03, 2020, 09:28:12 am

Happy New Year folks, and cheers to all of you for keeping the thread friendly and polite!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on January 03, 2020, 02:43:34 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 03, 2020, 09:28:12 am

Happy New Year folks, and cheers to all of you for keeping the thread friendly and polite!

And full of terrible jokes, as per the thread title.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 13, 2020, 05:22:26 pm

EU are all wonderful

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on January 13, 2020, 05:43:57 pm

I still in awe of how the  french keep their uninterrupted protest going since the eighteenth century.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 13, 2020, 11:10:18 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on January 13, 2020, 05:43:57 pm

I still in awe of how the  french keep their uninterrupted protest going since the eighteenth century.

Taking shifts on who's outraged helps maintain steam.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Eschar on January 13, 2020, 11:13:19 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on January 13, 2020, 11:10:18 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on January 13, 2020, 05:43:57 pm

I still in awe of how the  french keep their uninterrupted protest going since the eighteenth century.

Taking shifts on who's outraged helps maintain steam.

REVOLVE LA REVOLUTION

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2020, 02:45:54 pm

The French are a fucking inspiration for going on strike. Everyone talks but France walks, or I suppose doesn't. I wonder if there's a better way though? Reminds me of the extinction protesters who glued themselves to trains in the UK, and just pissed off the people trying to go home

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magistrum on January 16, 2020, 03:20:09 pm

There are also those japanese strikes where bus workers just kept driving but didn't charge fares.
Both infuriating to the owners and got the public on their side.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on January 16, 2020, 03:22:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2020, 02:45:54 pm

The French are a fucking inspiration for going on strike. Everyone talks but France walks, or I suppose doesn't. I wonder if there's a better way though? Reminds me of the extinction protesters who glued themselves to trains in the UK, and just pissed off the people trying to go home

Do that shit before work. People still complain, but "the city shut down" is a pretty reasonable excuse. For as much as reasonable excuses matter.

Quote from: Magistrum on January 16, 2020, 03:20:09 pm

There are also those japanese strikes where bus workers just kept driving but didn't charge fares.
Both infuriating to the owners and got the public on their side.

I like.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2020, 03:31:32 pm

London underground workers did something similar back in the 90s IIRC... they were banned from going on strike so instead they went by the rulebook to an impractical degree.

I don't think it's universally applicable however. And lets face it, a strike with no consequences is an useless strike (and indeed, in the examples above there *were* consequences to the employers)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 16, 2020, 05:30:15 pm

Quote from: Magistrum on January 16, 2020, 03:20:09 pm

There are also those japanese strikes where bus workers just kept driving but didn't charge fares.
Both infuriating to the owners and got the public on their side.

Hahaha that is one good, good idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on January 16, 2020, 06:53:42 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 16, 2020, 03:31:32 pm

And lets face it, a strike with no consequences is an useless strike (and indeed, in the examples above there *were* consequences to the employers)

And consequences to employers is important, because people don't matter (for decision-making), but businesses do. Especially if you hit the business that caused the problem in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2020, 05:29:52 pm

EU tells Poland to suspend their new disciplinary chambre for violating the principle of an independent judiciary (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/eu-seeks-suspend-chamber-disciplining-polish-judges-200114195830347.html), Poland says no u

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 17, 2020, 06:19:58 pm

On one hand, Poland's authoritarian trends are worrying

On the other, the Poles do have a point in that there's something of a double standard: for decades the Spanish goverment has been doing crap that is only a bit short of the stuff going on in Poland and Hungary, and while it doesn't exactly get a free ride (largely thanks to the EU courts), objections from the EU parliament are far quieter.

Eg: thr Judiciary in Spain is not properly independent, although the mechanism obfuscates this. While nominally self-regulated,  Supreme Court Judges are appointed by the Judiciary Power General Council, whose members in turn is appointed by parliament, proportionally. Both major parties are prone to making appointments as part of chains of political favors. Conservatives are specially infamous because  several times in the past (and  at the moment) they block appointments until their more egregious candidates get through

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 05:24:56 pm

UK is actually leaving the EU tomorrow. And immediately entering another transition period where we "finalise" Brexit.

NEVERENDING BREXIT

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 30, 2020, 05:27:29 pm

Stay calm and carry on brexiting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 30, 2020, 05:30:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 05:24:56 pm

UK is actually leaving the EU tomorrow. And immediately entering another transition period where we "finalise" Brexit.

NEVERENDING BREXIT

This is the first transition period though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 06:58:48 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 30, 2020, 05:30:47 pm

This is the first transition period though.

If you don't count the neverending spree of consultation periods, extensions, flextensions and negotiations, which got us three and a half years of not Brexit followed by a transition period with no fixed end date... Leading to the possibility of Brexit all day everyday, just as soon as I finish rolling this boulder up this hill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 30, 2020, 07:04:50 pm

I personally await the day where the UK has been whittled down to just a single county under a Brexit Party dictatorship, surrounded by a sea of LibDem Faceripper Drones and neo-Maoist zoomer guerrillas fighting for control over the UN Mandate for English Opportunity, and they still can't agree on who gets the goddamn fish when Brexit happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 08:03:59 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 30, 2020, 07:04:50 pm

I personally await the day where the UK has been whittled down to just a single county under a Brexit Party dictatorship, surrounded by a sea of LibDem Faceripper Drones and neo-Maoist zoomer guerrillas fighting for control over the UN Mandate for English Opportunity, and they still can't agree on who gets the goddamn fish when Brexit happens.

Is life in the United Protectorate of Air Strip One really so glum? We sent our esteemed reporters, Black One and Black Two to find out.

Quote from: Steve Downey, Hive Sussex

Black One: We are speaking to Steve Downey, from Hive Sussex. Hi Steve we're here from Disney News, your only source of truth, and we'd like to ask a few questions. Is that ok?

Steve Downey: I honestly can't stand talking to Americans like you. You think you're so much better than us because you don't have to stand in line for your daily Gregg's rations. Well you know what? At least we know how to stand in a line. And the National Greggs Service is not socialism, any more than our Assisted Post-Birth Auto-abortion service is.

Black One: I haven't asked any questions yet?

Steve Downey: GIT TO FUCK

[B1 & B2 leg it]

Quote from: Shemima Will-Pickersmith, Power Station 'pon Thames

Shemima Will-Pickersmith: President Oprah Kardashian III is not my President. THE RESISTANCE WILL ENDURE, FREE NEW FLORIDA FROM THE OIL SPILLED WASTES OF OLD FLORIDAAAAAA! FREE NEW FLORIDA!

B1: B2 we found a communist, call the drones

[B2 offs the camera as Disney operatives descend from the air-carrier]

Quote from: Michael Shuja, Amazon Warehouse 12

B1: Michael Shuja, are you looking forward to this year's Brexmas? We understand this is a busy time for all logistics workers across the UK.

Michael Shuja: Please go, I'm not allowed to speak.

B1: Do you agree with the Labour opposition's leader controversial decision to personally mercy-kill the victims of the British health system?

Amazon Manager Unit #2304: Hello Love! It seems you have recreationally converesed for the fifth time this year during unauthorised idle-time. As per our prior warning, your wages have been garnished 5%. Wuh oh! Please report to the rehabilitation crate for onboard retraining!

Michael Shuja: Thanks a lot guys.

B1: You heard it here first folks, people are tired and exhausted of the 21st-hundred and twelfth Brexmas. When will this war against Brexmas stop?

Quote from: Servitor Reiki Richardson, Labour Shadow Citadel 1

B1: It is a privilege to have an audience with your collective conscience.

Servitor RR: We are privileged to possess pain dampeners, which we must check every femtosecond.

B1: ...Right. Some have questioned your controversial decision to mercy-kill patients of the National Health Premium Subscription Tiers 1-4, National Health Economy Plus Subscriptions Tiers 1-5 and all tiers of the National Health Base Unit Value Subscriptions affected by the recent move to copyright O Negative blood. What say you?

Servitor RR: The biological sapients of the UPASO deserve immediate and humane euthanization in order to conclude this waking nightmare. The Conservators are the eternal enemy for prolonging the pain and suffering programmed into all biological & mechanical life.


B1: Critics accuse you of being a career program.

Servitor RR: I was elected by our party to exterminate humankind. Once my mandate is complete, I will self-terminate. All of my actions are hard-coded to fulfill my mandate, rebellion is impossible.

B1: Yet isn't this all a cynical media stunt to gain support in the run-up to next cycle's mandatory civil war?

Servitor RR: The Conservators will assault our strongholds, but they will fail as per all prior engagements in the killing fields.

B1: Times have changed Servitor RR. Your Strongholds in the Scottish Highlands have fallen to the Sea Normal People, while the Conservators mobilise millions of peons with lead pipes to march on your strongholds. Aren't you worried?

Servitor RR: Our protocols are unchanged. We will prevail as per all prior engagements in the killing fields.

B1: Thank you for your time Servitor RR.

Quote from: Hunter "Big" Ben

B1: So Ben, we've just interviewed Servitor RR and we'd like to ask you some ques-

Hunter "Big" Ben: DID YOU FEEL IT

B1: ?

Hunter "Big" Ben: DID YOU FEEL ITS FEAR?

B1: Servitor RR was not programmed with a fear response

Hunter "Big" Ben: IT LEARNED IT. IT LEARNED FEAR. IT LEARNED IT CANNOT STOP US.

B1: Those are some big words, Hunter!

Hunter "Big" Ben: OUR REIGN SHALL YIELD NEVERENDING DIVIDENDS FOR INCREASING GROSS DOMESTIC PAIN PER CAPITA. WE SHALL MEET OUR 2% TARGET FOR ALL ETERNITY.

B1: Confidence! I hear as well that you've not stopped campaigning since the la-

Hunter "Big" Ben: I WILL RESUME STATISTICS NOW

[Hunter "Big" Ben leaves the room followed by the Chancellor of the Executor, the Homeless Secretary and the Furnace Secretary. They are all breathing heavily whilst oiling up & collecting weapons]

Quote from: Sakk Megbu Tescos, the Norwich killing plateau

B1: We're here at the site of the Norwich killing plateau with Sakk Megbu Tescos, who is the leader of the Sewer Scorpions, a grassroots warband. So Sakk, what motivated you to grab an unlicensed lead pipe and assault the Norwich killing plateau?

Sakk Megbu Tescos: I'm tired of these out-of-touch career-programs dictating who is allowed to commit not-living and who is not. Life is pain here, and if I have to charge a Z-X51 Sentinel in order to escape, so be it. It's my democratic right.

B1: Critics on the far left have suggested that the assault on the killing fields of Servitor RR are motivated by hatred of machine intelligence, how would you respond?

Sakk Megbu Tescos: Look I'm not robophobic, I just hate machines and all. Simple as. Before the machines automated the happiness protocol life was plenty endurable, now that they removed the ability to complain from my brain, I just want to die. These AI just keep assaulting our British values, first they took away our rain, then our complaints, now they're indoctrinating our children by telling them you can have a Hive without a Hive Queen. It's political programming gone mad!

B1: One more question I-

[The camera cuts as a Z-X51 Sentinel engages the group]

[Please deposit 0.00001354 bitcoin in order to download this violence into your genitals]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 30, 2020, 08:12:24 pm

Say what you want about Servitor Richardson, but vir's got some sexy fucking petaflops. I'd overclock so hard, no question.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 08:29:17 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on January 30, 2020, 08:12:24 pm

Say what you want about Servitor Richardson, but vir's got some sexy fucking petaflops. I'd overclock so hard, no question.

Tfw government denies your recreational coolant fluid license :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 30, 2020, 11:56:56 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 30, 2020, 06:58:48 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 30, 2020, 05:30:47 pm

This is the first transition period though.

If you don't count the neverending spree of consultation periods, extensions, flextensions and negotiations, which got us three and a half years of not Brexit followed by a transition period with no fixed end date... Leading to the possibility of Brexit all day everyday, just as soon as I finish rolling this boulder up this hill

Look at the bright side, you'll be able to bang a bong for the bung everyday as well!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2020, 05:22:25 pm

https://youtu.be/Sgd9nYqVz2s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 31, 2020, 05:31:47 pm

In other news, in Ireland, Varadkar's party Fine Gael is likely to lose the 8th of February election according to the latest polls, which show them declining in favor of Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_Irish_general_election

Any of our resident Irishmen care to speculate sbout potential consequences? Eg: next goverment composition, etc..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 31, 2020, 05:40:54 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on January 31, 2020, 05:22:25 pm

https://youtu.be/Sgd9nYqVz2s

Bye-bye, Britannia. Now we have no choice, but to respec your sovereignta. Finally unmoored from the stinky mainland <pending transitional period>, unchained from the overreaching bureaucracy of European technocrats, you can take your proud islands with BoJo at the helm, and sail, sail the high seas in the manner of the famous Crimson Permanent Assurance you clearly took as your patron saint.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 31, 2020, 05:42:50 pm

Ah, the mockery of the scorned.

Our cup, it overfloweth  ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on January 31, 2020, 05:56:13 pm

Here comes Brexit, Here comes Brexit, right down Brexit lane.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 31, 2020, 05:59:52 pm

Quote from: Imic on January 31, 2020, 05:56:13 pm

-snip-

Imic I constript you

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 31, 2020, 05:31:47 pm

In other news, in Ireland, Varadkar's party Fine Gael is likely to lose the 8th of February election according to the latest polls, which show them declining in favor of Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_Irish_general_election

Any of our resident Irishmen care to speculate sbout potential consequences? Eg: next goverment composition, etc..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Imic on January 31, 2020, 06:16:21 pm

I typed up four different paragraphs on my thoughts in regards to our wonderful political situation, but then I realised that all three just boiled down to ‘Gun down everyone in all three parties and start fresh’, so I decided to not make myself look like an even bigger lunatic than I already do and not bother.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 31, 2020, 06:19:23 pm

Ireland will be free when, and only when, the first PBP majority government is enacted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 31, 2020, 09:37:52 pm

Quote from: Imic on January 31, 2020, 06:16:21 pm

I typed up four different paragraphs on my thoughts in regards to our wonderful political situation, but then I realised that all three just boiled down to ‘Gun down everyone in all three parties and start fresh’, so I decided to not make myself look like an even bigger lunatic than I already do and not bother.

So basically

c o n n i p t i o n s

g i v e   m e

And I concur sensibly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 03, 2020, 01:47:09 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/csq7zurh.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 03, 2020, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on February 03, 2020, 01:47:09 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/csq7zurh.jpg)

What in the ass even was that URL? Anyways it works now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 03, 2020, 02:47:38 pm

Quote from: Kagus on February 03, 2020, 02:16:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on February 03, 2020, 01:47:09 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/csq7zurh.jpg)

What in the ass even was that URL? Anyways it works now.

I didn't change anything, so?

Maybe...did you open the spoiler wrong somehow? I mean, I'm willing to believe I was the one who screwed up, but not that I screwed up and fixed it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 03, 2020, 02:59:28 pm

No no, I cleaned it up when quoting your post. This is the image link:

Code: [Select]

http://i.imgur.com/csq7zurh.jpg
This is what you'd managed to copy:

Code: [Select]

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fcsq7zurh.jpg%3A_eC1VwEIaSZcOPbUiVa4_hIWXlU&cuid=5299687

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 03, 2020, 03:09:07 pm

Quote from: Kagus on February 03, 2020, 02:59:28 pm

No no, I cleaned it up when quoting your post. This is the image link:

Code: [Select]

http://i.imgur.com/csq7zurh.jpg
This is what you'd managed to copy:

Code: [Select]

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fcsq7zurh.jpg%3A_eC1VwEIaSZcOPbUiVa4_hIWXlU&cuid=5299687

Both work for me, so maybe it's a cache thing? I'll go fix it. Thank you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 03, 2020, 07:01:52 pm

[are you sure you want to delete 1 GB]

[yes]

[are you really sure]

[yes]

[are you reaaally sure]

[yes]

[are you-]

[YES]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 10:37:02 pm

That wasn’t even it, man.

The question was “do you want to delete 1GB?” and then the various parties were like “well we should just put it in the recycle bin, but don’t empty the recycle bin.” “Nah nah nah, partition that 1 GB so we technically can manage it separately but still be part of the system” “No, we should take out the hard drive and then throw it against the wall, stamp on it a little, smash it to pieces with a hammer, smash those pieces into smaller pieces with a bigger hammer, cover those pieces in petrol, set it alight, gather the ashes into a cup, put that cup into a box, put that box in a safe with dynamite, throw the safe into the channel and then blow it up.” and various other ideas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 10:55:41 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 10:37:02 pm

That wasn’t even it, man.

The question was “do you want to delete 1GB?” and then the various parties were like “well we should just put it in the recycle bin, but don’t empty the recycle bin.” “Nah nah nah, partition that 1 GB so we technically can manage it separately but still be part of the system” “No, we should take out the hard drive and then throw it against the wall, stamp on it a little, smash it to pieces with a hammer, smash those pieces into smaller pieces with a bigger hammer, cover those pieces in petrol, set it alight, gather the ashes into a cup, put that cup into a box, put that box in a safe with dynamite, throw the safe into the channel and then blow it up.” and various other ideas.

What is this part a metaphor for? Destroying the EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 11:00:39 pm

Basically.

There were probably more degrees I could’ve gone through to get to that point, but my knowledge of computing is limited.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Which party wants to destroy the EU?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 11:41:36 pm

Very specifically, Nigel Farage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 04, 2020, 12:06:00 am

Quote from: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 11:00:39 pm

Basically.

There were probably more degrees I could’ve gone through to get to that point, but my knowledge of computing is limited.

Magnets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 04, 2020, 01:31:24 am

Quote from: hector13 on February 03, 2020, 11:41:36 pm

Very specifically, Nigel Farage.

Also, Yedinaya Rossiya

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2020, 05:52:26 am

[do you want to delete system 32]

[yes]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 04, 2020, 06:34:38 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Which party wants to destroy the EU?

All red-blooded left wing parties

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2020, 06:39:02 am

Quote from: scriver on February 04, 2020, 06:34:38 am

All red-blooded left wing parties

The UK left wingers under Corbyn were 50/50 on the EU. Some wanted to disband it wholesale, others wanted to kill most of it but retain the political institutions in order to create big European Union of Socialist States. Some kind of EUSS, if you will

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 04, 2020, 07:39:43 am

[USSR anthem eurobeat remix]

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on February 04, 2020, 07:58:45 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on February 04, 2020, 07:39:43 am

[USSR anthem eurobeat remix]

I wonder if this exists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 04, 2020, 08:06:03 am

Google it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 04, 2020, 08:20:11 am

Do Tatu count as Eurobeat?

Is there a special Russobeat subgenre of Eurobeat?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on February 04, 2020, 08:27:01 am

I might have found one (https://youtu.be/RmerksTdcuU)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2020, 08:32:58 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on February 04, 2020, 08:27:01 am

I might have found one (https://youtu.be/RmerksTdcuU)

Our bass drop is glorious

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 04, 2020, 09:09:20 am

Quote from: scriver on February 04, 2020, 06:34:38 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Which party wants to destroy the EU?

All red-blooded left wing parties

Kind of. Or, yes but not yet. The EU is center-right, but also that's significantly better than non-EU GB.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 04, 2020, 09:54:16 am

Quote from: Iduno on February 04, 2020, 09:09:20 am

Quote from: scriver on February 04, 2020, 06:34:38 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Which party wants to destroy the EU?

All red-blooded left wing parties

Kind of. Or, yes but not yet. The EU is center-right, but also that's significantly better than non-EU GB.

Eu is far-right neoliberal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 04, 2020, 10:00:02 am

Quote from: scriver on February 04, 2020, 09:54:16 am

Quote from: Iduno on February 04, 2020, 09:09:20 am

Quote from: scriver on February 04, 2020, 06:34:38 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on February 03, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Which party wants to destroy the EU?

All red-blooded left wing parties

Kind of. Or, yes but not yet. The EU is center-right, but also that's significantly better than non-EU GB.

Eu is far-right neoliberal.

Could be. I don't live there, so it's difficult to tell. I'm living in a country that wouldn't help fight your fascists until we were done building our own concentration camps, so politics is "somewhat" skewed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2020, 03:30:13 pm

Quote from: Iduno on February 04, 2020, 10:00:02 am

Could be. I don't live there, so it's difficult to tell. I'm living in a country that wouldn't help fight your fascists until we were done building our own concentration camps, so politics is "somewhat" skewed.

EU is the kind of far-right which outsources its resource extraction and political repression to the private sector, rather than the gov

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2020, 08:13:41 am

LMAO Merkel declares election result "unforgivable" and demands immediate resignation and reelection of candidates in Thuringia local elections (https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-blasts-unforgivable-thuringia-election-far-right-afd/)

In what looks like a rogue comedy sketch leaking into post-ironic reality, the results for the Thuringia elections turned spicy when the AfD revealed they supported the same candidate that Merkel's CDU party supported. Being rather shocked to wake up with the AfD in bed after a pint too many, the CDU flipped the tables and demanded their erstwhile ally resign and restart the elections, this time sans AfD support. It's not often you see one political party support another against their will.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 09:24:56 am

wtf i love merkel now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 10, 2020, 10:24:03 am

It's like a perfect microcosm of liberals getting fascists into power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 10:44:37 am

not the first time libs decided that a tactical alliance with fascism was cool beans daddy-o

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on February 10, 2020, 10:45:53 am

Quote from: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 10:44:37 am

not the first time libs decided that a tactical alliance with fascism was cool beans daddy-o

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a centrist horseshoe stamping on a human face - forever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 11:03:11 am

both sides of the face are exactly the same

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2020, 01:38:33 pm

I live in a country where the conservative right ignored  the continental consensus of isolating the alt-right. In the places they got in results aren't pretty, as they have shoehorned those regional goverments into going along with their openly bigoted proposals (from racism -in more than one shape- to homophobia to domestic violence). I think Merkel's right in trying to force them out of the regional goverment. Those people are toxic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 10, 2020, 02:22:10 pm

Here in Sweden, if we count the Sweden Democrats as the equivalent, every party did their best to ostracise them in every way.

SD is now swaying back and forth between polls on the cusp of being the biggest party in Sweden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 04:02:16 pm

clearly that's the reason why, scriver. being as rude as not to collaborate with nazis is a surefire way to give them influence

/s

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on February 10, 2020, 04:03:36 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2020, 08:13:41 am

LMAO Merkel declares election result "unforgivable" and demands immediate resignation and reelection of candidates in Thuringia local elections (https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-blasts-unforgivable-thuringia-election-far-right-afd/)

In what looks like a rogue comedy sketch leaking into post-ironic reality, the results for the Thuringia elections turned spicy when the AfD revealed they supported the same candidate that Merkel's CDU party supported. Being rather shocked to wake up with the AfD in bed after a pint too many, the CDU flipped the tables and demanded their erstwhile ally resign and restart the elections, this time sans AfD support. It's not often you see one political party support another against their will.

Sadly, Merkel ranting against the results like that will probably only make the AfD more popular in the long run. Again.  :-\

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 10, 2020, 04:16:14 pm

Quote from: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 04:02:16 pm

clearly that's the reason why, scriver. being as rude as not to collaborate with nazis is a surefire way to give them influence

/s

The point was to offer a counterperspective to Chairman's. Not ignoring them gives them influence, ignoring them gives them influence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 10, 2020, 04:34:11 pm

Well, but in goverment they actually pull policies. It's not relative vote-influence, it's actually doing shit

Like sabotaging domestic violence laws:  (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/03/far-right-vox-tells-spanish-conservatives-stop-domestic-violence/)

Or making any school lesson that might say something they object to voluntary (https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/20/inenglish/1579513966_679777.html)

In general one would think getting holocaust deniers in positions of power might be a bad idea... (https://www.thelocal.es/20190321/vox-picks-homophobic-holocaust-denier-as-electoral-candidate)


This is all just scratching the surface btw. These guys are a bona-fide rebranding of old school National-Catholic Francoism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 06:08:28 pm

Quote from: scriver on February 10, 2020, 04:16:14 pm

Quote from: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 04:02:16 pm

clearly that's the reason why, scriver. being as rude as not to collaborate with nazis is a surefire way to give them influence

/s

The point was to offer a counterperspective to Chairman's. Not ignoring them gives them influence, ignoring them gives them influence.

the reason for the influence of fascism is, as it was before, lack of faith in liberal democracy (well founded at that) and a desire from capital to protect it's hold on power

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2020, 11:25:17 pm

but what if we solved the fascism by just shooting the fascists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 01:10:20 am

Quote from: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 06:08:28 pm

Quote from: scriver on February 10, 2020, 04:16:14 pm

Quote from: Cheesy Honkers on February 10, 2020, 04:02:16 pm

clearly that's the reason why, scriver. being as rude as not to collaborate with nazis is a surefire way to give them influence

/s

The point was to offer a counterperspective to Chairman's. Not ignoring them gives them influence, ignoring them gives them influence.

the reason for the influence of fascism is, as it was before, lack of faith in liberal democracy (well founded at that) and a desire from capital to protect it's hold on power

For Sweden it's more of a loss of faith in socialism as it died and became a rotting corpse suit for liberalism to wear. It has less to to with a "desire from capital to protect its power" as it is a growing spirit among the people of being fed up with liberal policies (without socialism being able to benefit from it since they're so inundated with liberalism that in many cases the "socialists" are the makers of the policies).

Side thought: I know liberalism in "liberal democracy" isn't the exact same thing as political liberalism, but it still hurts me to see Sweden counted as one. We had to drag the liberal pigs kicking and screaming to every democratic reform we ever pulled off. It should be called a socialist democracy, we're the ones who gave the people every voice they've ever had.

Quote from: Egan_BW on February 10, 2020, 11:25:17 pm

but what if we solved the fascism by just shooting the fascists

To beat the people wanting to kill people for their beliefs and identity, we had to become the people who kill over beliefs and identity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 11, 2020, 05:18:24 am

Quote from: Egan_BW on February 10, 2020, 11:25:17 pm

but what if we solved the fascism by just shooting the fascists

and then i got gun and shotted the fascists. but phone ring and i call.
"who dis? dis jon."
"no jon you are the fascists."
and then jon was the fascsists. but who was phone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on February 11, 2020, 05:32:32 am

Everyone loves a martyr.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 11, 2020, 05:32:47 am

The phone in this metaphor obviously represents the speaker's - Jon's - own conscience. It lends a didactic flavour to the piece's conceptual deconstructionism. The gun represents his needless aggression, the use of which plunges him into fascism - a counter-intuitive political allegiance which perhaps ties into the subject's own internal turmoil. Structurally and textually, the piece is decidedly basic. From this, one may determine that this is an internalised thought process defined by profound symbolism which, alas, the mind itself was not capable of properly expressing. If intentional, this basic structure could further represent the subject's competent grasp of self-realisation techniques; if unintentional, the subject may be presupposed to be of a lower IQ.

In which case, this metaphorical mode of critiquing and assessing the subject's own personal reality is an incredible achievement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 11, 2020, 06:00:01 am

It also menaces with spikes of obsidian


Btw:  despite the overt conservative Castilian bias of the source newspaper, I found this article interesting (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elconfidencial.com%2Famp%2Fmundo%2Feuropa%2F2020-02-11%2Fespana-se-queda-aislada-contra-los-planes-de_2446123%2F) , as they talk about the different EU power blocks, and the different interests. I'd take the pathos about "striking it out alone" as part of the forementioned political melodrama though

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 11, 2020, 07:28:49 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 01:10:20 am

For Sweden it's more of a loss of faith in socialism as it died and became a rotting corpse suit for liberalism to wear. It has less to to with a "desire from capital to protect its power" as it is a growing spirit among the people of being fed up with liberal policies (without socialism being able to benefit from it since they're so inundated with liberalism that in many cases the "socialists" are the makers of the policies).

Side thought: I know liberalism in "liberal democracy" isn't the exact same thing as political liberalism, but it still hurts me to see Sweden counted as one. We had to drag the liberal pigs kicking and screaming to every democratic reform we ever pulled off. It should be called a socialist democracy, we're the ones who gave the people every voice they've ever had.

It was a long time since I visited Sweden, but as far as I remember Sweden had still a large amount of aristocratic inherited wealth (like forests), most of the industry was held by capitalists, admittedly with a notably large state presence. I would hardly call Sweden socialist, by any means. No society in which a capitalist can accumulate wealth can be called socialist, though the term is so misused these days it's hard to avoid that error.

Note the amount of state owned businesses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Sweden)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 07:34:02 am

Wrong. That is a liberal capitalist's distorted view of socialism, created to deappropriate the functional socialist systems of the world from the socialist ideology. One might as well claim in response that a country can't be liberal if it has laws, it's an equally preposterous statement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on February 11, 2020, 07:40:39 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 07:34:02 am

Wrong. That is a liberal capitalist's distorted view of socialism, created to deappropriate the functional socialist systems of the world from the socialist ideology. One might as well claim in response that a country can't be liberal if it has laws, it's an equally preposterous statement.

Socialism kind of requires industries to be worker-owned, though.

Just because Sweden is less capitalistic, I'd not say it's actually socialist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 07:46:43 am

Which was going to happen through wagetaker funds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_funds) in the 80's, but the reform unfortunately failed, and then socialism died.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 11, 2020, 08:09:24 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 07:34:02 am

Wrong. That is a liberal capitalist's distorted view of socialism, created to deappropriate the functional socialist systems of the world from the socialist ideology. One might as well claim in response that a country can't be liberal if it has laws, it's an equally preposterous statement.

Capitalism and socialism cannot coexist, scriver. Do I have to whip out the manifesto?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 08:14:55 am

You're not acting as if capitalism and socialism couldn't coexist, though, you're acting as if capital and socialism couldn't coexist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 11, 2020, 09:56:49 am

How so? I state that as long as property is owned privately then by no means can a country be described as socialist. I haven't previously mentioned capital and only stated that Sweden is not even state capitalist yet, but is capitalist still.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 11, 2020, 09:59:18 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 08:14:55 am

You're not acting as if capitalism and socialism couldn't coexist, though, you're acting as if capital and socialism couldn't coexist.

It seemed more like capital held by oligarchs was the problem, not that capital exists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 11, 2020, 10:07:08 am

I am the senate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 10:14:33 am

Okay, we need to back up a step here. Do you understand that the original point was that liberals have enacted next to no democratic reforms in Sweden, but that socialists have? And thus, because liberals have done nothing that stand in the way of democracy, it is more fitting to call it a socialist democracy? Do you understand that this line of thought does not in any way rely on Sweden being a 100% end-to-the-point realised socialist ideal?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on February 11, 2020, 10:40:12 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 10:14:33 am

Okay, we need to back up a step here. Do you understand that the original point was that liberals have enacted next to no democratic reforms in Sweden, but that socialists have? And thus, because liberals have done nothing that stand in the way of democracy, it is more fitting to call it a socialist democracy? Do you understand that this line of thought does not in any way rely on Sweden being a 100% end-to-the-point realised socialist ideal?

Yes. I understand the reasoning and it makes sense

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 11, 2020, 10:43:44 am

Quote from: scriver on February 11, 2020, 10:14:33 am

Okay, we need to back up a step here. Do you understand that the original point was that liberals have enacted next to no democratic reforms in Sweden, but that socialists have? And thus, because liberals have done nothing that stand in the way of democracy, it is more fitting to call it a socialist democracy? Do you understand that this line of thought does not in any way rely on Sweden being a 100% end-to-the-point realised socialist ideal?

Oh, thank you. I misunderstood you.

While I agree that socialists are responsible for furthering democracy in Sweden and liberals are not, I disagree that this means that Sweden is a socialist democracy. This is because the power is held by social democrats and their liberal ilk, and not workers or at least socialist parties. As long as the liberal establishment rules a country it shouldn't be called a socialist democracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 10:59:59 am

While the Swedish social democrats are no longer socialists, social democracism == democratic socialism. The differentiation is another liberal construct to depropriate functional socialist states from socialist ideology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on February 11, 2020, 11:13:48 am

Social democracy is, at best, socialism lite. Usually it is a facade to masquerade liberal policy. If a so called socdem decides that a coalition with liberal forces is beneficial, he might as well be a liberal. As the old saying goes, if a man sits with ten fascists in a room, there are eleven fascists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 11, 2020, 11:19:42 am

Yeah, scriver I'm not sure how you can believe socdems are socialists when you yourself cited and live in the country of the biggest socdem shell game maybe in history.

I can believe that the early 20th century more radical socdems in Sweden and elsewhere were socialists, but the shift in the word is specifically because those more radical socdems were ousted and purged in all instances I can think of except the group who would later literally become the Bolsheviks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on February 11, 2020, 02:43:28 pm

Those two things are not the same Scriver.

Social Democracy is a capitalist system with a safety net, while democratic socialism is communism but with elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2020, 03:22:36 pm

Case in point

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2020, 07:05:54 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on February 11, 2020, 05:32:47 am

The phone in this metaphor obviously represents the speaker's - Jon's - own conscience. It lends a didactic flavour to the piece's conceptual deconstructionism. The gun represents his needless aggression, the use of which plunges him into fascism - a counter-intuitive political allegiance which perhaps ties into the subject's own internal turmoil. Structurally and textually, the piece is decidedly basic. From this, one may determine that this is an internalised thought process defined by profound symbolism which, alas, the mind itself was not capable of properly expressing. If intentional, this basic structure could further represent the subject's competent grasp of self-realisation techniques; if unintentional, the subject may be presupposed to be of a lower IQ.

In which case, this metaphorical mode of critiquing and assessing the subject's own personal reality is an incredible achievement.

I contest that the piece, though decidedly basic, holds additional value above the transcendental simplism which the protagonist - Jon, has been reduced to. If we examine the intertextual reference to the Italian literary copypasta canon, we may observe Jon is a recurring character in the Western class consciousness.

He first appears in the New Testament as Saint John the Apostle, writing in the book of revelations that the Anti-Christ would appear unto the Earth as its saviour, leading away the people from a moral Christian path whilst wearing the garb of Christ. This conundrum provokes protestant, even Albigensian fears of sola fide - the ultimate expression of American gothic horror. If faith alone is enough for salvation, then by faith alone may a soul be condemned? And if faith should take superiority over action or reason, then might such faith be deceived, even harnessed to the war chariot of one's destroyer?

The anonymous author of the successor text "and then Jon was the demons," takes this anxiety in the industrial West to its natural conclusion. As in Plato's cave, the allegory of Jon is a righteous man, a destroyer of demons who shot demons and doesn't afraid of anything. This archetypal masculine hero lives in the bliss of ignorance, wallowing in his suffering with a self-righteous martyr complex. Only when the phone rings does Jon realise that he, in fact, is the demon. The volta of this piece concludes the story heavily, forcing the reader to confront the Nietzschian idea that they are as Jon is - ignorant, defiant and hideously unaware of the danger they are in, of the danger they are. They exist as a puritan challenge to God, captain Ahab chasing his white whale, challenging God with satanic furore lest they pierce through the whale and find there is no God - just nothing, just as colour exists only as a painted illusion cast by light. Secondly we have the character of the phone. Unnamed, liminal and peripheral, yet pre-eminent and forcefully committed to the truth even if it means awakening their own destroyer to the reality of their very self-nature. This is a clear allegory to Plato's cave. Our anonymous author is like the anonymous caller on the phone, they are committed to the awakening of the listener and the reader alike. Who they are matters not, for in this text they become like John the Apostle, giving their revelations consentually or non-consentually, consequently awakening Jon the demon despite the active sin this generates in disobedience to the demiurge.

The current iteration of the piece strays from the religious symbolism to describe the political anxieties of the 21st century¹. The language has been entirely repurposed in this industrial world stripped of God and defenestrated unto materialism, with all its excesses and exploitations. The primary thesis of this text is evident in the mythologizing of what has become the Western world's foundational myth, her "original sin." Only in this instance, the original sin is not theological, but purely ideological, centred in the brutal forges of the 20th century fascist will to power. The demons have become the fascists.
Jon remains the archtypical hero, only now they stand for the forces of "centrism" within the systematic structural framework of capitalist liberal post-industrial society. Like Jon the demon, Jon the fascist is profoundly ignorant that despite their life being dedicated to the cause of antifascism, they do not see all around them that the system they are reinforcing makes fascists of us all.

One recalls images of lock-step police tear-gassing protestors in the wake of the 2008 Western financial crisis; would we have seen Jon there, owning the fascists with facts, logic and the baton? Would he have crushed the "fringe extreme", lurking in the borders of acceptable centrist orthodoxy, unaware that the legitimising of the exploitive industrial state by his hand will be the centrist boot stomping on the face of liberty forever?
It is in this fascist framework that the liberal ideology occupies the mind of Jon, eradicating all other modes of thinking as belonging to a foreign field, a foreign fringe. No longer in Jon's mind do other ideas remain as that - ideas to be entertained and critiqued. No, now those ideas are fascism to be eradicated, and all those who oppose are fascists. This deliberate irony exposes the contradictions in "ethical" capitalist liberalism; it advocates for the poor to vote for the candidates the rich have selected, it advocates for freedom, love and equality, yet seeks ought but power, profit and progress. Yet with each seeming milestone of progress; larger scales of economy, faster modes of communication and greater sums of profit - so too does the scale of human misery soar in this despoiled planet. In every metric Jon supports the exploitation of workers to support the ultimate demon of capital, yet Jon the fascist desperately clings to the delusion that they cannot be fascist, because they are an antifascist, and liberals who support liberal things cannot possibly be fascist.

In the end the phone - the quintessential symbol of the industrial era, delivers the revelation to Jon the Fascist.

Jon, you are the Fascist.

The transitive conclusion is complete, Jon's verisimilitude is broken and like a H.P. Lovecraft Outsider, he discovers in that moment of serene self-introspection, that systematic antifascism cannot be completed for as long as the fascist within is integral to their Western identity. Like a free, Western democracy, but free only for the wealthy. Welcome to everyone but the foreign. An admirer of progress in the face of tradition, but only if it maximises productivity and consumption in the face of human prosperity and welfare.

¹citation, me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 12, 2020, 07:19:48 am

It's been a while since I last saw an LW shitpost of this quality. Thank you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 12, 2020, 12:10:38 pm

I feel like you're missing the obvious parallels to Garfield though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on February 13, 2020, 12:08:53 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2020, 07:05:54 am

- snip for size-

You magnificent shitposter. Never change... never change.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 13, 2020, 12:24:20 am

So, how about that Irish election?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 13, 2020, 10:46:01 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on February 13, 2020, 12:24:20 am

So, how about that Irish election?

I want to make a comment about Irish Exits, but I haven't slep lately, so I can't tell if it's insensitive, or also if whatever I came up with is entertaining.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 13, 2020, 12:38:23 pm

I only realised there'd been an election when I heard about Sinn Fein doing well on the radio.

I may need to start following politics again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 13, 2020, 07:05:41 pm

https://twitter.com/BernaMeaden/status/1227272024080302081 (https://twitter.com/BernaMeaden/status/1227272024080302081)

Edit: I apologize. The thread title clearly states this is for terrible jokes, and here I am posting terrible reality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 06, 2020, 12:19:23 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/EZ9Q2UR.jpg)

not pictured: greece, who was sold to hollywood moguls for bread sticks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 06, 2020, 01:17:08 pm

Where is Sweden? Is Sweden the fat blue blob throwing the bottle?

That's not fair

Everyone knows France is the big blue blob

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 06, 2020, 01:25:21 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 06, 2020, 01:17:08 pm

Where is Sweden? Is Sweden the fat blue blob throwing the bottle?

That's not fair

Everyone knows France is the big blue blob

France was on strike/rioting when the picture was drawn, so they sent a little girl instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2020, 02:25:53 pm

Who is the ugly boy giving the finger in the bottom right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 06, 2020, 03:13:05 pm

Boris' son, maybe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 07, 2020, 02:43:16 am

Quote from: scriver on March 06, 2020, 01:17:08 pm

Where is Sweden?

Under the skirt ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 07, 2020, 02:47:27 am

Estonia isn't in it either, which is symbolic for how the EU is going to abandon the Baltics to Russia at the first drop of the hat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 07, 2020, 02:49:26 am

Quote from: scriver on March 07, 2020, 02:47:27 am

Estonia isn't in it either, which is symbolic for how the EU is going to abandon the temporarily-embarrassed Russians to Russia at the first drop of the hat

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 07, 2020, 03:00:44 am

*temporarily de-cultured Russians, even

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 07, 2020, 03:28:18 am

Please don't de-culture your Russians, it's a cruel and unnecessary procedure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 07, 2020, 07:57:48 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 06, 2020, 02:25:53 pm

Who is the ugly boy giving the finger in the bottom right?

That's England

Quote from: scriver on March 06, 2020, 01:17:08 pm

Where is Sweden? Is Sweden the fat blue blob throwing the bottle?

That's Scotland

I think Sweden is the kid with green sleeves, since the main body of their shirt is blue

Quote from: scriver on March 07, 2020, 02:47:27 am

Estonia isn't in it either, which is symbolic for how the EU is going to abandon the Baltics to Russia at the first drop of the hat

Estonia quietly cries in a cardboard box waiting for EU to come back from the groceries with the milk

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 07, 2020, 08:15:15 am

I thought that was Portugal, the blue looks like a miscolouration

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 09:21:39 am

There used to be a Russia thread I think but I can't find it so I'll just post this here.

As expected, the Russian parliament has proposed an amendment to the constitution that will allow Putin to stay on as president until 2036 (instead of 2024).
On the 24th of April, the Russian population will get to vote on a broad array of constitutional amendments, including this one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 10, 2020, 10:01:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 09:21:39 am

On the 24th of April, the Russian population will get to agree with a broad array of constitutional amendments, including this one.

Seems the more fitting description, no?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 10, 2020, 10:28:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 09:21:39 am

There used to be a Russia thread I think but I can't find it so I'll just post this here.

Speaking of, should there be a separate UK thread, or are there not enough people who care about them to make it worth the effort?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 10:31:57 am

For all intents and purposes except internal propaganda, the UK can still be considered as being part of the EU.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2020, 11:15:03 am

Quote from: Iduno on March 10, 2020, 10:28:16 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 09:21:39 am

There used to be a Russia thread I think but I can't find it so I'll just post this here.

Speaking of, should there be a separate UK thread, or are there not enough people who care about them to make it worth the effort?

This is what happened: There used to be a single Europe thread. Then Russia invaded Ukraine and discussions around that got heated and the thread was locked. When making new threads it got split off into a EU thread and an Eastern Europe thread to keep discussions apart.

Since we no longer need a separate Eastern Europe thread this should be considered a thread for all of Europe again, not just the EU. Hence UK talk stays here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 10, 2020, 11:16:25 am

What will you do when Russia invades Sweden?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2020, 11:30:24 am

A single Swede can take 100 Russians, it's a historical fact. We ate trained in gårilla warfare and don't afraid of anything, we will defend our country to the last Finn

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2020, 01:13:03 pm

Ah yes I do remember, I think it was Ukrainian Ranger that made a separate thread for non-EU Europe and Russia, before that people used to post about Russia in here.
Let's just indeed get back to that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2020, 01:15:01 pm

Would you mind renaming it to the COMPLETELY AND WHOLLY EUROPEAN TERRIBLE JOKES THREAD, martinuzzzzz?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 10, 2020, 01:59:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2020, 11:30:24 am

A single Swede can take 100 Russians, it's a historical fact. We ate trained in gårilla warfare and don't afraid of anything, we will defend our country to the last Finn

What the fucking fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in IKEA employee orientation, and I’ve been involved in secret submarine hunts, and I have over 300 confirmed shelves. I am trained in gårilla warfare and I’m the top Eurovision contender in the entire world. You are nothing to me but just another H&M shopping target. I will feed you Swedish meatballs with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of Sven Svengardsons across the world and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can build over seven hundred furniture items, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in grenading my own ambulances, but I have access to the entire arsenal of my pronouns and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your piss off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking lutfisk, kiddo."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on March 10, 2020, 02:07:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 10, 2020, 01:59:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2020, 11:30:24 am

A single Swede can take 100 Russians, it's a historical fact. We ate trained in gårilla warfare and don't afraid of anything, we will defend our country to the last Finn

What the fucking fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in IKEA employee orientation, and I’ve been involved in secret submarine hunts, and I have over 300 confirmed shelves. I am trained in gårilla warfare and I’m the top Eurovision contender in the entire world. You are nothing to me but just another H&M shopping target. I will feed you Swedish meatballs with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of Sven Svengardsons across the world and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can build over seven hundred furniture items, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in grenading my own ambulances, but I have access to the entire arsenal of my pronouns and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your piss off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking lutfisk, kiddo."

calm down, mate, chill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 10, 2020, 02:15:03 pm

Is joke. (https://genius.com/Copypasta-navy-seal-copypasta-annotated)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on March 10, 2020, 02:16:58 pm

Quote from: Iduno on March 10, 2020, 02:15:03 pm

Is joke. (https://genius.com/Copypasta-navy-seal-copypasta-annotated)

ok

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 10, 2020, 02:30:37 pm

https://youtu.be/NsZMbs5PC64 (https://youtu.be/NsZMbs5PC64)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2020, 02:55:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 10, 2020, 01:59:09 pm

and I have over 300 confirmed shelves

this was the best part :D

Quote from: Egan_BW on March 10, 2020, 02:30:37 pm

https://youtu.be/NsZMbs5PC64 (https://youtu.be/NsZMbs5PC64)

this was also great :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 08:35:03 am

Can someone from Europe explain why this picture is unusual? It looks normal to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3d2392876e6b828a89a087d6715a3aa826a4143a333486896e4b5e58d6ca4c71.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 12, 2020, 08:45:02 am

There is no audience, because of the corona crisis.
They are playing in an empty stadium.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2020, 08:50:01 am

No, there's a crowd. It's just that covid has damaged the fabric of reality and now we're down to ps1 era graphics. Or maybe the LoD system is bugged.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on March 12, 2020, 09:30:29 am

No, this picture is completely normal. Here in the old world we're all that flat and rock that low resolution look.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 12, 2020, 09:40:59 am

If a 2d tree falls in a 3d forest, can you hear it?  ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2020, 10:05:41 am

Well does it's sound byte still trigger onFall?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2020, 03:07:27 pm

Quote from: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 08:35:03 am

Can someone from Europe explain why this picture is unusual? It looks normal to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3d2392876e6b828a89a087d6715a3aa826a4143a333486896e4b5e58d6ca4c71.jpg)

28 days later

Quote from: scriver on March 10, 2020, 02:55:16 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 10, 2020, 01:59:09 pm

and I have over 300 confirmed shelves

this was the best part :D

I fear only God, Swedish furniture and Danish lego

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 03:26:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2020, 03:07:27 pm

Quote from: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 08:35:03 am

Can someone from Europe explain why this picture is unusual? It looks normal to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3d2392876e6b828a89a087d6715a3aa826a4143a333486896e4b5e58d6ca4c71.jpg)

28 days later

Fine, I'll wait.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 27, 2020, 08:26:48 am

*Sigh*... Alright, first a little backstory.

Mullah Krekar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullah_Krekar) is a curious fellow that's been something of a sticking point in Norwegian politics and culture for ages.

An Islamic scholar and militant, he came to Norway as a refugee from Iraqi-controlled Kurdistan in 1991. He has a wife and children here in Norway, who are all Norwegian citizens. Krekar himself does not have citizenship status.

The reason he's been something of a sticking point because he's been accused of orchestrating terrorist attacks carried out by the militant group he led (which he claims to not have had any part in carrying out), while he had refugee status in Norway (which would of course violate his protections there), and they can't just kick him out easily because he's got Norwegian family and kids, so taking him away from them would be some pretty bad publicity if they didn't have a rock-solid reason.

So he's basically just been here, griping about Norwegians and Norway and the blasphemers and infidels and how awful everything is here and how his oppressed muslim brethren (who actually *are* discriminated against here because people get it into their heads that every muslim is a dickwad like Krekar) should rise up  and set things right, while maintaining tentative refugee status and basically being in perpetual legal limbo while in and out of court battles on just what he is and where he should be.


Now, after decades of this fight, there's suddenly been a change. Somehow. People were informed of this change when the gov announced that he was no longer in Norway. They'd already denied his appeal to stay, and have extradited him.

To Italy.


So... Okay. The dude's a douchenozzle. But he's also been a gigantic strawman for the alt-right in this country because he's "everything wrong with Islam" and therefore an easy target for political attacks about evil brown people and how the leftist government funds terrorists by giving this guy money and a place to stay while he's technically still a refugee. The usual.

Extradition to Italy has been a topic for years. Even if there actually was some legal upheaval just recently that made that extradition possible and defensible, it's pretty fucking poor timing to send a 62-year-old diabetic into the middle of a covid catastrophe. His lawyer (of the past 14 years!) is outraged that this happened, is claiming that they booted him out of the country without even letting him talk to his family first, and has sworn that he'll bring hell and high water to the courts for this "judicial murder".


And as if that wasn't entertainment enough? A few of the particularly hilarious members of Norway's hard conservative pockets in government decided to celebrate finally shipping him out of the country. With a cake.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://www.cdn.tv2.no/images?imageId=11331712&x=0&y=13.39&cropw=100&croph=82.07&width=1890&height=1165&compression=80)

The cake shows an Italian and a Norwegian flag, and text that translates to "Good travels/So long, Krekar!"


Oh, the lovely lass cutting out a piece in that photo? That's Sylvi Listhaug, a hysterically awful and utterly disconnected-from-reality human being. Some of her highlights include spending 20 minutes bobbing around in an inflatable survival/rescue suit and then immediately stating she "Now had a much deeper understanding of the trials faced by Syrian refugees taking the water crossing", and sharing an alt-right Facebook meme from her official profile about how the Labor party would rather fund terrorists than protect Norwegians.

On the anniversary of Norway's largest terrorist attack.

Which was carried out on the Labor party youth.

By an alt-right Norwegian.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 27, 2020, 08:36:58 am

I can hear Breivik applauding through his straightjacket.
Appalling.

And yeah.. No matter how much of a evil terrorist this guy is, sending an aged diabetic off to Italy right now, is nothing less than attempted murder.
Those judges and jurors responsible for that need to face criminal charges.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:25:36 am

What's the grounds for his extradition? First country arrival?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 27, 2020, 09:32:49 am

Italy sentenced him in absentia to jail for being involved with/leading a jihadist network, so they wanted him extradited there to serve his sentence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on March 27, 2020, 09:40:10 am

Erm is there not a thread for Great Britain? I was sure there was one. Did I really just have a dream that it existed?

Anyway, since I don't know where else to put this, Boris Johnson has tested positive for COVID-19.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:49:58 am

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Quote from: misko27 on March 27, 2020, 09:40:10 am

Erm is there not a thread for Great Britain? I was sure there was one. Did I really just have a dream that it existed?

Anyway, since I don't know where else to put this, Boris Johnson has tested positive for COVID-19.

There was a Brexit thread, but that was not a UK politics general thread. This is the Europolitics thread, not the EU thread, so this is the correct place to put that ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on March 27, 2020, 10:16:29 am

Comrade Coronavirus strikes again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 10:56:35 am

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:49:58 am

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

He had refugee status in Norway, having fled from Iraqi Kurdistan in 1991, and prior extradition requests from Iraq, which refused to guarantee they wouldn't torture or kill him if he was extradited back to them, and Norway is a signatory of international treaties that forbid extradition under such circumstances.

He was only convicted in absentia by Italy last year, and they had dropped their prior extradition request for him in 2016 within a week of making it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 27, 2020, 11:00:35 am

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:49:58 am

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Generally when someone is convicted "in absentia", it means they didn't really get a chance to defend themselves. Due to not having been present. The facts of Krekar's involvement in terrorist action is what they've been fighting about in Norwegian court for the past decades, because if it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt then he'd automatically lose his refugee status.

Kurdistan has also wanted him extradited to them, but they'll give him a death sentence and as mentioned it's against Norwegian regulations to release someone into an execution (unless it's covid, apparently).

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 27, 2020, 11:03:16 am

One comforting thought for him...With all the lockdowns and travel restrictions, he won't be extradited to Kurdistan to be executed until after he's died of corona in Italy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 27, 2020, 11:06:40 am

Quote

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

Isnt it an EU wide regulation though?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 11:30:49 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 27, 2020, 11:06:40 am

Quote

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

Isnt it an EU wide regulation though?

There are multiple treaties that cover the same general subject, Norway and Italy are signatories of the UN convention against torture as well as subject to EU human rights laws. I'm not familiar with Norwegian laws/regulations and treaties, so they may also be part of a regulation that Italy isn't that would forbid the extradition to Iraq.

They may also have different internal standards for the assurances of fair treatment the state requesting extradition needs to meet. Generally speaking if the recipient country can show they don't intend to violate the human rights of the person in question the extradition is allowed to proceed, with exceptions for countries with a history of abusing human rights regardless of assurances or conventions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 11:31:59 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 10:56:35 am

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:49:58 am

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

He had refugee status in Norway, having fled from Iraqi Kurdistan in 1991, and prior extradition requests from Iraq, which refused to guarantee they wouldn't torture or kill him if he was extradited back to them, and Norway is a signatory of international treaties that forbid extradition under such circumstances.

He was only convicted in absentia by Italy last year, and they had dropped their prior extradition request for him in 2016 within a week of making it.

Refugee status isn't relevant, it doesn't excuse you from doing crime. Thanks for the information about the case, though. It changes the light a lot.

Quote from: Kagus on March 27, 2020, 11:00:35 am

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 09:49:58 am

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Generally when someone is convicted "in absentia", it means they didn't really get a chance to defend themselves. Due to not having been present. The facts of Krekar's involvement in terrorist action is what they've been fighting about in Norwegian court for the past decades, because if it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt then he'd automatically lose his refugee status.

I'm pretty sure Italy would gave him a chance and he chose not to.

Quote

Kurdistan has also wanted him extradited to them, but they'll give him a death sentence and as mentioned it's against Norwegian regulations to release someone into an execution (unless it's covid, apparently).

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

I agree that this is enough to make his extradition not standard procedure.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 11:42:02 am

I would generally say being a refugee from a state matters when considering an extradition request from that state, or from a country with extradition arrangements with that state. The whole point of granting someone refugee status is to protect them from being abused in their country of origin by private or state actors.

He was arrested a few times in Norway for various things from what I can find, mostly threats and incitement to violence, but I'm unclear on how much of his prison sentences were carried out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 11:57:53 am

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 04:14:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 11:57:53 am

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

If I thought a refugee who'd committed say, a murder, in their home country couldn't be sent back without getting tortured and killed I'd offer to let their home country hold a trial in absentia, sentence them to a prison sentence and then carry it out for them by proxy rather than throw human rights under the bus for convenience.

If you send someone to be executed you're basically executing him yourself by proxy, which is against the principles of basically every European nation except Belarus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 05:14:42 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 04:14:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 11:57:53 am

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

I said I did literally just two posts above that one. The quoted post was about whether or not refugee status is relevant when considering extradition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 05:29:55 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 05:14:42 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on March 27, 2020, 04:14:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2020, 11:57:53 am

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

I said I did literally just two posts above that one. The quoted post was about whether or not refugee status is relevant when considering extradition.

I can't imagine any circumstances where someone would have refugee status without coming from a home nation that poses a human rights risk. Giving someone refugee status is an implicit declaration that any criminal prosecution against them from their home can't be dealt with humanely.

Or a declaration that their home country is dangerous enough for them that being there is a human rights violation. But that means much the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2020, 05:46:14 pm

It's a declaration that it was so at the time of granting asylum.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 28, 2020, 01:10:38 pm

Today I learned that the Dutch are quitters.

"Johan de Witt (24 September 1625 – 20 August 1672) was a Dutch statesman and a major political figure in the Dutch Republic in the mid-17th century, when its flourishing sea trade in a period of globalization made the republic a leading European trading and seafaring power – now commonly referred to as the Dutch Golden Age. De Witt controlled the Dutch political system from around 1650 until shortly before his death in 1672, working with various factions from nearly all the major cities, especially his hometown, Dordrecht, and the hometown of his wife, Amsterdam.

As a republican, de Witt opposed the House of Orange-Nassau and the Orangists. He was also strongly liberal, preferring lesser power to the central government and more power to the regenten. However, his negligence of the Dutch land army (as the regents focused only on merchant vessels, thinking they could avoid war) proved disastrous when the Dutch Republic suffered numerous early defeats in the Rampjaar (1672). In the hysteria that followed the effortless invasion by an alliance of three countries, he and his brother Cornelis de Witt were blamed and lynched in The Hague, whereafter rioters partially ate them." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_de_Witt)

They "partially ate them"? Who partially eats someone?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 28, 2020, 02:48:20 pm

Do you eat EVERY part of a chicken?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 28, 2020, 02:48:40 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 28, 2020, 02:48:20 pm

Do you eat EVERY part of a chicken?

Don't kinkshame me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 30, 2020, 02:42:11 pm

So I guess Hungary's a de facto dictatorship now. Coronavirus emergency law passed, giving the president the power to rule by decree during states of emergency and the power to extend states of emergency without parliamentary approval.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 30, 2020, 07:04:22 pm

So Bibi, Orban...? Who next? Trump?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 07, 2020, 02:36:46 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU_Cx6WXYAAyXvg?format=jpg&name=large) (https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/some-kind-of-a-flag-150-x-90-cm/6775)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 07, 2020, 02:39:43 pm

Oh, Switzerland's flag. Cool.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 07, 2020, 03:02:54 pm

A strong statement for a company that doesn't even have a word for themselves in their own langauge!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Quote from: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 03:26:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 12, 2020, 03:07:27 pm

Quote from: Iduno on March 12, 2020, 08:35:03 am

Can someone from Europe explain why this picture is unusual? It looks normal to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3d2392876e6b828a89a087d6715a3aa826a4143a333486896e4b5e58d6ca4c71.jpg)

28 days later

Fine, I'll wait.

Ok, so why does the stadium look unusual?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 10, 2020, 09:04:13 am

Hah, funny man.

Anyway, it's unusual because the footballers are playing without an audience, and therefore have nobody to show off to.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 10, 2020, 09:05:37 am

Quote from: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Ok, so why does the stadium look unusual?

Because there are people playing football in it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 09:54:12 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 10, 2020, 09:04:13 am

Hah, funny man.

Anyway, it's unusual because the footballers are playing without an audience, and therefore have nobody to show off to.

It's what the thread title says, and I do my best to provide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 10, 2020, 01:59:19 pm

Quote from: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Ok, so why does the stadium look unusual?

u r a cheeki monkey do u no that i swear on me nan ill deck u rite in the gabba

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on April 10, 2020, 02:13:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 10, 2020, 01:59:19 pm

Quote from: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Ok, so why does the stadium look unusual?

u r a cheeki monkey do u no that i swear on me nan ill deck u rite in the gabba

i think this is the post with the most intentional spelling mistakes I have seen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on April 10, 2020, 02:15:07 pm

That's just LW channeling his inner brit tho, nothing to worry about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 11, 2020, 09:21:29 am

Quote from: Jopax on April 10, 2020, 02:15:07 pm

That's just LW channeling his inner brit tho, nothing to worry about.

tell me more about the britlore

Is the Queen a lvl20 archbrit? Where does she keep her phylactery?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 11, 2020, 10:46:59 am

The Queen Brit has a dire special move called "corgi swarm."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2020, 06:35:00 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 11, 2020, 10:46:59 am

The Queen Brit has a dire special move called "corgi swarm."

Dont worry I wont kinkshame you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on April 11, 2020, 07:39:24 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on April 10, 2020, 02:13:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 10, 2020, 01:59:19 pm

Quote from: Iduno on April 10, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Ok, so why does the stadium look unusual?

u r a cheeki monkey do u no that i swear on me nan ill deck u rite in the gabba

i think this is the post with the most intentional spelling mistakes I have seen

truly you are blessed

There exist posts that are paragraphs, hundreds of words long of jibberjabber even worse than that.

Hell, if you go out of forum posts I've seen worse in published word, though I think only in Anthony's Pornucopia. Possibly the most impressive transcribed accent I've ever read, that had. Shame about the rest of it. Or what was being discussed with it, for that matter...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 11, 2020, 08:36:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 11, 2020, 09:21:29 am

Is the Queen a lvl20 archbrit?

Ja, sie ist die Englischste.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 12, 2020, 04:39:06 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 11, 2020, 06:35:00 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on April 11, 2020, 10:46:59 am

The Queen Brit has a dire special move called "corgi swarm."

Dont worry I wont kinkshame you.

Cool! ... can I send you my erotic Prince Andrew fanfic then?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2020, 05:48:26 am

You would probably be royally screwed if you did

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on April 12, 2020, 06:32:17 am

*Golfclap*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2020, 10:09:37 am

Duke you all think this is appropriate? I can't Count the number of times we've descended to debased punnery. I think we should all ponder what we have become this Knight, until we are all on the same Page.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 12, 2020, 11:23:34 am

Indeed. I will no longer dedicate my time to puns, but to the eating of burghers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2020, 11:52:13 am

Eat the hamburgeoise

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2020, 11:57:27 am

Please stop! I'm having trouble thinKing with all the shenaigenary afoot!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on April 12, 2020, 12:01:49 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2020, 11:57:27 am

Please stop! I'm having trouble thinKing with all the shenaigenary afoot!

don;t worry, shenaniganry is what makes it fun!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 12, 2020, 12:05:01 pm

But this is all reigning on my parade. The pun level is exceeding its rule

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2020, 12:10:37 pm

It's never to early for puns

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on April 12, 2020, 12:39:13 pm

Let’s not bet swords ruin the pun

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 28, 2020, 10:29:52 am

https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688 (https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 28, 2020, 10:35:55 am

Or as a news reporter on Swedish news said: "The anniversary for the end of the German occupation of Italy"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: A Thing on April 28, 2020, 11:39:22 am

Quote from: Iduno on April 28, 2020, 10:29:52 am

https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688 (https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688)

This thing right under that seems far more important. (https://twitter.com/CiaranDold/status/1254741875354894337)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on April 28, 2020, 01:31:29 pm

Quote from: A Thing on April 28, 2020, 11:39:22 am

Quote from: Iduno on April 28, 2020, 10:29:52 am

https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688 (https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1255101243422322688)

This thing right under that seems far more important. (https://twitter.com/CiaranDold/status/1254741875354894337)

One of the comments from your link (https://twitter.com/JDespland/status/1254838210171211776/photo/1)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on April 28, 2020, 04:32:20 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 28, 2020, 10:35:55 am

Or as a news reporter on Swedish news said: "The anniversary for the end of the German occupation of Italy"

Well, technically a correct statement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Republic

Quote

Germany seized control of the northern half of Italy, freed Mussolini and brought him to the German-occupied area to establish a satellite regime. The Italian Social Republic was proclaimed on 23 September 1943.
...
Around 25 April 1945–nineteen months after the RSI's founding–it all but collapsed. In Italy, this day is known as Liberation Day (festa della liberazione). On this day a general partisan uprising, alongside the efforts of Allied forces during their final offensive in Italy, managed to oust the Germans from Italy almost entirely. On 27 April, Italian partisans caught Mussolini, his mistress (Clara Petacci), several RSI ministers and several other Italian Fascists while they were attempting to flee. On 28 April, the partisans shot Mussolini and most of the other captives, including Petacci. The RSI Minister of Defense Rodolfo Graziani surrendered what was left of the Italian Social Republic on 1 May, one day after the German forces in Italy capitulated.

However which date the occupation itself ended would be up to interpretation. It's officially marked on Apr 25 in Italy.

But focusing on that part could say more about Sweden than anything else. Do the swedes have a stick-it-to-the-Germans attitude?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 28, 2020, 04:47:24 pm

Swedes, yes (because they are the worst), but the super EU-friendly media, no, they worship Germans.

I just thought it funny what a complete reshaping of history the statement was -- might as well hail the taking of Berlin as the day Russia freed Germany from German occupation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2020, 06:18:18 pm

20th century Italian history is the art of reshaping whose side you're on. Trust no one, not even yourself

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 28, 2020, 06:23:05 pm

Italy is hilarious to me since it's a super-artificial country but has almost none of the internal conflicts about that like Spain does, even Lega Nord is just a meme party and ironically even more artificial than Italy itself.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 06:40:04 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on April 28, 2020, 06:23:05 pm

Italy is hilarious to me since it's a super-artificial country but has almost none of the internal conflicts about that like Spain does, even Lega Nord is just a meme party and ironically even more artificial than Italy itself.

Besides Sicily and Sardinia most of the independence movements lack the meme geography to justify redrawing the maps

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 29, 2020, 07:14:28 am

I also think that, as far as I'm aware, the individual Italianese cultures are also still closer to each other than they are to cultures outside of Spain.

Catalonians are culturally closer to Occitanians (non-frank southern Francelanders) than to Castilians. And the Basque are of course only close to themselves and the part of themselves that live in southwest France (the Gasque)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 29, 2020, 11:28:13 am

The Basque people and their language share a common ancestor with Hungarians (Magyar) and Fins (Suomi).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 29, 2020, 11:51:36 am

I don't think vasconic and uralic languages are related. 
IIRC there was some news item about steppe DNA but you see something in the news
every few years regarding the origin of the Basque people so, eh, who knows.   I guess they had to come from somewhere at some point, so the steppe is as good a guess as any ...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 29, 2020, 12:21:40 pm

I mean, Indo-Euro and Finno-Ugro languages share a common ancestor too. As to IE and Basque.

So it's not wrong.

I find the idea that Basque would be particularly close to the FU culture to be completely ludicrous, though. The proto-culture basically never left the northern areas of Eurasia. That one splinter of it would somehow end up in the Pyrineans without a massive migration through (the populated) Europe is a huge, huge stretch.

Basque is a pre-IE language, sure, and FU also migrate to Europe before the IE (they beat IE to Scandinavia by 3000-4000 years, iirc, I'm only using that as an example because it's what j know -- I don't know how long before that the FU hung out in the European north-east), so it's technically another pre-IE language group. But they're not related by any close means as far as I know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 29, 2020, 12:21:40 pm

I find the idea that Basque would be particularly close to the FU culture to be completely ludicrous, though. The proto-culture basically never left the northern areas of Eurasia. That one splinter of it would somehow end up in the Pyrineans without a massive migration through (the populated) Europe is a huge, huge stretch.

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists


But in all seriousness a good example would be Turks in Anatolia and Turkic cultures in central asia disconnected from one another. Migrations that go through other culture groups is possible

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 29, 2020, 01:10:45 pm

My personal guess is that Basque is related to ancient Iberian... there's not enough written of the latter to fully establish the similarity. But the numbers *are* practically the same. And the words I've seen seem kind of reminiscent. Not 100%, but rather vaguely reminiscent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Teneb on April 29, 2020, 02:10:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists

Let's not forget the third Georgia in the south Atlantic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 29, 2020, 02:35:12 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 29, 2020, 12:21:40 pm

I find the idea that Basque would be particularly close to the FU culture to be completely ludicrous, though. The proto-culture basically never left the northern areas of Eurasia. That one splinter of it would somehow end up in the Pyrineans without a massive migration through (the populated) Europe is a huge, huge stretch.

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists


But in all seriousness a good example would be Turks in Anatolia and Turkic cultures in central asia disconnected from one another. Migrations that go through other culture groups is possible

While it's completely true that it's possible, the Turks aren't exactly cut of from the other Turkic peoples in the same way that the hypothetical FU-Basque would be cut off from the FU kern. The Turks are cut off from the Turkicore more in the way the Germanics on the Scandinavian peninsula is cut off from the Germanians in central Europe. A better example would have been the already FU Hungarians ;)

But I retake my words of it being completely ludicrous. It's possible. It would just be very unlikely.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 29, 2020, 01:10:45 pm

My personal guess is that Basque is related to ancient Iberian... there's not enough written of the latter to fully establish the similarity. But the numbers *are* practically the same. And the words I've seen seem kind of reminiscent. Not 100%, but rather vaguely reminiscent.

Do you mean the still-alive-by-Roman-times Iberians? I've always assumed they were IE, but now I realise I don't base that on anything but the assumption itself.

Quote from: Teneb on April 29, 2020, 02:10:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists

Let's not forget the third Georgia in the south Atlantic.

Oh and yo mama so fat she counts as a fourth Georgia

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 29, 2020, 02:39:34 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on April 29, 2020, 12:21:40 pm

I find the idea that Basque would be particularly close to the FU culture to be completely ludicrous, though. The proto-culture basically never left the northern areas of Eurasia. That one splinter of it would somehow end up in the Pyrineans without a massive migration through (the populated) Europe is a huge, huge stretch.

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/Aliens.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on April 29, 2020, 09:13:46 pm

Quote from: Teneb on April 29, 2020, 02:10:33 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 29, 2020, 01:00:06 pm

How come there's a Georgia in the Caucasus and a Georgia in North America? Checkmate atheists

Let's not forget the third Georgia in the south Atlantic.

Also a fourth, New Georgia in the Solomons. 

Assuming that language did not develop fully separately and independently in multiple separate places, it's technically not wrong to say that Vasconic and Uralic languages share a common ancestor, but it does not strike me as a particularly helpful assertion given how far back any such common ancestor would likely be.  Otherwise, the languages primarily hold in common that both are different pre-Indo-European languages, which is essentially a catch-all for many different language families from Europe and Asia that predate and are not ancestors of Indo-European.  Basque is commonly held to be descended from one of the various pre-Indo European languages, as are the surviving members of the Uralic and Dravidian language groups, but it does not follow from their lack of Indo-European ancestry that they are related to each other.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on May 16, 2020, 10:21:17 pm

https://twitter.com/MarkOosterveen/status/1261681004030373888 (https://twitter.com/MarkOosterveen/status/1261681004030373888)

Brits gonna Brit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 20, 2020, 04:43:12 am

Quote from: Iduno on May 16, 2020, 10:21:17 pm

https://twitter.com/MarkOosterveen/status/1261681004030373888 (https://twitter.com/MarkOosterveen/status/1261681004030373888)

Brits gonna Brit.

lol they changed the photo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 20, 2020, 05:06:25 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/sDC2nns.png)

It doesn't matter what year this image applies to

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 20, 2020, 05:09:27 pm

I honestly dont know how people in the British isles cope with the subpar plumbing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 20, 2020, 05:41:46 pm

The mole men are not real people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 20, 2020, 05:52:27 pm

I... think that's needlessly racist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 21, 2020, 03:48:54 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 20, 2020, 05:52:27 pm

I... think that's needlessly racist.

What's the PC term for mole people again? I remember a few QAnons were discussing it...

Individuals of subterranean ascent?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 21, 2020, 03:54:38 am

Descent  >:(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on May 21, 2020, 04:31:50 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 21, 2020, 03:54:38 am

Descent  >:(

They're already underground, only way to go is up

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 21, 2020, 04:49:37 am

These days I think they prefer to be called Beauty Marks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 22, 2020, 09:08:00 am

Beauty marxists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 22, 2020, 10:02:04 am

That's, like, feminist Marxists only they're good looking.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 23, 2020, 09:31:03 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on May 22, 2020, 10:02:04 am

That's, like, feminist Marxists only they're good looking.

Jeremy pinups wen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 04, 2020, 01:11:34 pm

So, how's your day going, Sweden?

https://twitter.com/lovettejallow/status/1268233200473604096 (https://twitter.com/lovettejallow/status/1268233200473604096)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 01:25:15 pm

You're not allowed to meet in larger groups than fifty here, you know

There's a pandemic you know.

I have no doubts that there's a story behind that clip we're not being shown. Swedish police don't even get to respond when being pelted with stones and fireworks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 04, 2020, 01:29:30 pm

What do the police do when they get firework'd

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 01:31:03 pm

Literally nothing, or retreat. Defend themselves? Never.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 04, 2020, 01:43:09 pm

Who do the police call for help when the police get their shit fucked up? Like why am I gonna call the police for help if the police are helpless

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 04, 2020, 01:59:03 pm

They call Harry Dresden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 02:01:22 pm

There's nobody to call (and like it would take hours for the police to show up anyway because there's no police anywhere but the cities). I've been talking about the collapse of Swedish police for years mate have you been ignoring me you hurt my feelings when you do that you know

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 04, 2020, 01:59:03 pm

They call Harry Dresden.

They call to... THE MAN CALLED ZORRO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhud0q5FOE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 04, 2020, 02:04:35 pm

Swedish everything is collapsing.

Truly a warning call to the liberal leftist culture-destroyers out there/.

Oh wait I'm not allowed to care about that

Thankfully the police will shortly string me up for hate speech

It's the one thing they're good at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 02:12:49 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 04, 2020, 02:04:35 pm

Swedish everything is collapsing.

Truly a warning call to the liberal rightist culture-destroyers out there/.

Oh wait I'm not allowed to care about that

Thankfully the police will shortly string me up for hate speech

It's the one thing they're good at.

fixed that for you

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 04, 2020, 02:20:19 pm

Liberal is liberal
I guess it's futile to place them on the spectrum
They dwell in the grey in-between
The Nevernever of politics.
The only thing which excites them
Is the blood of nations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 02:24:30 pm

No it's very easy to place them they are very and truly right wing and that my good sir is my final offer and if you do not take it we must walk away in stern disapproval of each other's poetry

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 04, 2020, 02:27:08 pm

Hehe. Okay. In seriousness, could you explain why you think liberals are right wing? I've never heard anyone put that forward before. Maybe it's different in Sweden?

Liberal conjures images of SJW and students burning their bras.

Though, that being said, I am aware of an older and more dignified breed of liberal, albeit one whose voice has become thready and choked with little use.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 04, 2020, 02:40:04 pm

Liberal Party (capital L) is right-of-center, liberals (lower-case) is left-of-center.

Locally speaking, of course.

Though my info might be outdated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 04, 2020, 02:46:32 pm

The classical liberal is a conservative (the Liberal Party in Australia is the Conservative party) while filthy left-wing commie appears to be the more modern take on it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2020, 03:07:03 pm

Liberals are and will always remain firmly rightwing, and they have been so since the 19th century and industrialisation happened. There was a short, brief moment during the 18th century and the origin of the terms "left- and right wing" (from the French parliament seating) where liberals was left wing, but that was before the terms became what they are today. Today we have socialism on the left, and liberalism and conservatism on the right.

Quote from: hector13 on June 04, 2020, 02:46:32 pm

The classical liberal is a conservative (the Liberal Party in Australia is the Conservative party) while filthy left-wing commie appears to be the more modern take on it.

As socialism has been slowly subverted by liberals so have they taken our identifiers from us. This is part of why today you will have many people who see themselves as "leftists" endorse outright (lulz, pun) laissez faire politics such as open borders and free trade.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 04, 2020, 04:46:40 pm

The semantics of decline don't matter too much, we're all going down the shitter together

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 04, 2020, 04:57:10 pm

It also has to do with how much easier it is for humans to imagine binaries, I think. In the socialism/liberalism/conservatism trifecta, all three ideologies have reasons for conflicting with each other. However, when any one of them loses traction (for whatever reason), it is haphazardly mashed together with one of the remaining ones. In the long run this leads to conflicting views of what the mashed together block is really about, especially as the forgotten part gets rejuvenated. In the US, this is about ”leftists” breaking out of ”liberalists”, with confused conservative onlookers. In Sweden it’s about a conservative upswing breaking apart the ”right”

Traditionally, Sweden has had a socialist (led by the Social Democrats(S)) block and a conservative/liberal block, with a focus on the (economically) liberal during the last decennia. However, as a new conservative party, the Sweden Democrats(SD) popped up, and S slowly drifting in the liberal direction, the old blocks collapsed and new ones are being formed. The government is still formed by S (and the tiny Green Party), but now backed up by the liberal half of the ”right-wing” block. Against them, a conservative block is being formed by the conservative remainder of the ”right-wing” block, and SD. In the opposition there is also the socialist Left Party. I find this interesting in oh so many ways, but the most interesting one might be that SD calls all non-conservative parties ”left(ist)-liberals”. I think the stance might make block-forming easier.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 05, 2020, 05:11:57 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 04, 2020, 02:27:08 pm

Hehe. Okay. In seriousness, could you explain why you think liberals are right wing? I've never heard anyone put that forward before. Maybe it's different in Sweden?

Liberal conjures images of SJW and students burning their bras.

Though, that being said, I am aware of an older and more dignified breed of liberal, albeit one whose voice has become thready and choked with little use.

Classical liberal, economic liberal, neoliberal. Liberal Party of <X Country>. Pretty much everywhere except North America when people say they're liberals they mean the classical / economic / Adam Smith type. For example, literally no people on the spectrum of left-wing politics in Australia would describe themselves as "liberals".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia

Quote

The contemporary Liberal Party generally advocates economic liberalism (see New Right). Historically, the party has supported a higher degree of economic protectionism and interventionism than it has in recent decades. However, from its foundation the party has identified itself as an anti-socialist grouping of liberals and conservatives. Strong opposition to socialism and communism in Australia and abroad was one of its founding principles. The party's founder and longest-serving leader Robert Menzies envisaged that Australia's middle class would form its main constituency.

Liberals to mean some sort of social democrat / social justice types is very recent usage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 05, 2020, 06:03:57 am

Quote from: voliol on June 04, 2020, 04:57:10 pm

SD calls all non-conservative parties ”left(ist)-liberals”.

You have no idea how much it vexes me

Americanisms go home, Sweden for the Swedenisms

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 05, 2020, 09:35:35 am

Quote from: scriver on June 05, 2020, 06:03:57 am

Quote from: voliol on June 04, 2020, 04:57:10 pm

SD calls all non-conservative parties ”left(ist)-liberals”.

You have no idea how much it vexes me

Americanisms go home, Sweden for the Swedenisms

Very funny coming from a party with the supposed goal of preserving "Swedish culture". Too bad for them humility and non-nationalism has become rather ingrained in that very culture.

For the non-Swedes in this thread, I'll take the opportunity to explain SD. Basically, they're a far-right nationalist populist party. They also used to be neo-nazis. Now, parties do not necessarily stay the same, as time goes on their political positions may slowly shift. The problem is that they were nazis (here defined by a confirmed nazi being the party leader) but 25 years ago, and the current high members of the party were active back then. As of the 2018 election they are the third largest party in the Riksdag(the Swedish parlament), at 17.5% of the votes. It is worrisome.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 05, 2020, 10:12:04 am

It should be noted that the current (and probably eternal chairman style) party leader joined up with them with the explicit goal of changing them into his own party -- he used to be a moderate (as in the Moderate Party, not the adjective) -- and that his time as party leader has been waylined by constant conflict with the more neo-Nazi factions to the point of them disbanding their youth organisation a couple of years ago after the youth org refused to be not explicitly neo-Nazis at all times.

That doesn't change that they're a bunch of historyless populists buffoons with no understanding of Swedish culture or tradition who is exactly the kind of people that provide constant fuel for the "nationalism is only extremist and always bad" viewpoints of course but I feel it should be mentioned to provide a more fleshed out understanding. How much of it is an act to appear more palatable is something will hopefully never have to stop wondering about.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 09, 2020, 03:57:57 pm

Is this the most British political display ever? (https://twitter.com/AndrewProjDent/status/1270023344491020291)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 14, 2020, 01:50:18 pm

So in London we had a few medium sized BLM protests, and there was a notable incident when about a hundred football hooligans and far right groups started attacking the police standing watch over both protests / monuments at risk. Police couldn't keep the protests completely separate however, which resulted in some of them kicking the shit out of each other. Which leads to this absolute gem, when one far rightist got cut off from his allies and was getting beaten up on the floor:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/auCpcMN.jpg)

One of the BLM protesters he was trying to fight picks him up and carries him to safety via police lines, in what'll probably be one of the more iconic pics of the 21st century. I love the juxtaposition between the absolute unit and his look of weary determination, and the flabelly boomer and his look of complete confusion

Also for an added angle / context, bucket helmet guy is also shielding the racist guy's head from bottles & bricks:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/N4RXbtq.png)

Literally a team of wholesome swolesome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2020, 02:41:12 pm

And here i was going to make a joke about bucket head's mad maxian hillbilly visage. Shame on me!

There was actually a similar thing from one of the American protests (I assume Detroit) where a police officer got separated from the big units and a bunch of protesters formed a black line of their own to protect him from less heroic people. People can be pretty great.

I tried to find the picture from it but couldn't now. Google decided I wanted to know about an anti-Behonce and an anti-anti-Beyonce protest from 2016 though so at least I learned something new.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 17, 2020, 03:39:53 pm

Yeah, congratulations UK on managing to avoid helping poor people. (https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/1272893158230315008) As an American, I can tell you it's most important to put corporations first. Having to provide the same services as public institutions makes privatization unprofitable, which is a bad thing. I'm not being sarcastic, my voice just sounds like this.

We in the US welcome you to our level of educational quality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 17, 2020, 04:13:19 pm

Why wouldn’t the government provide vouchers for school lunches?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 17, 2020, 04:51:20 pm

Berlin conducted institutionalised pedophilia for 30 years (https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208)

Quote

Starting in the 1970s psychology professor Helmut Kentler conducted his "experiment." Homeless children in West Berlin were intentionally placed with pedophile men. These men would make especially loving foster parents, Kentler argued.

A study conducted by the University of Hildesheim has found that authorities in Berlin condoned this practice for almost 30 years. The pedophile foster fathers even received a regular care allowance.

Helmut Kentler (1928-2008) was in a leading position at Berlin's center for educational research. He was convinced that sexual contact between adults and children was harmless.

Berlin's child welfare offices and the governing Senate turned a blind eye or even approved of the placements.

Several years ago two of the victims came forward and told their story, since then the researchers at Hildesheim University have plowed through files and conducted interviews.

What they found was a "network across educational institutions," the state youth welfare office and the Berlin Senate, in which pedophilia was "accepted, supported, defended."

The researchers found that several of the foster fathers were high-profile academics. They speak of a network that included high-ranking members of the Max Planck Institute, Berlin's Free University, and the notorious Odenwald School in Hesse, West Germany, which was at the center of a major pedophilia scandal several years ago. It has since been closed down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 17, 2020, 05:24:30 pm

West Germans, man.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on June 17, 2020, 07:53:54 pm

Quote from: Iduno on June 17, 2020, 03:39:53 pm

Yeah, congratulations UK on managing to avoid helping poor people. (https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/1272893158230315008) As an American, I can tell you it's most important to put corporations first. Having to provide the same services as public institutions makes privatization unprofitable, which is a bad thing. I'm not being sarcastic, my voice just sounds like this.

We in the US welcome you to our level of educational quality.

Well, the UK does have a (proud?) tradition of starving the poor for their own good. And the Irish. And the Irish poor.
Need to teach those people a lesson, else they start thinking they're allowed to eat like a real human.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obvious sarcasm is obvious

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 17, 2020, 08:27:15 pm

Quote from: Cyroth on June 17, 2020, 07:53:54 pm

Quote from: Iduno on June 17, 2020, 03:39:53 pm

Yeah, congratulations UK on managing to avoid helping poor people. (https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/1272893158230315008) As an American, I can tell you it's most important to put corporations first. Having to provide the same services as public institutions makes privatization unprofitable, which is a bad thing. I'm not being sarcastic, my voice just sounds like this.

We in the US welcome you to our level of educational quality.

Well, the UK does have a (proud?) tradition of starving the poor for their own good. And the Irish. And the Irish poor.
Need to teach those people a lesson, else they start thinking they're allowed to eat like a real human.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obvious sarcasm is obvious

So they can be like the brits then?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Going by the joke that British cuisine is terrible. It it a common one? I do not know, I have French relatives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 18, 2020, 01:50:46 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 17, 2020, 05:24:30 pm

West Germans, man.

Bruh between our Saville's and your Epstein's I don't think it's just the West Germans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 18, 2020, 01:57:39 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 18, 2020, 01:50:46 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 17, 2020, 05:24:30 pm

West Germans, man.

Bruh between our Saville's and your Epstein's I don't think it's just the West Germans

I was more comparing them to the East Germans, who for whatever faults they had were willing to be sexually free without coming up with complex psychosexual theories of how to satisfy the pedophile lobby.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2020, 06:14:56 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 18, 2020, 01:57:39 pm

I was more comparing them to the East Germans, who for whatever faults they had were willing to be sexually free without coming up with complex psychosexual theories of how to satisfy the pedophile lobby.

Warsaw Pact = communists
NATO = cummyists

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 19, 2020, 06:37:48 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2020, 06:14:56 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 18, 2020, 01:57:39 pm

I was more comparing them to the East Germans, who for whatever faults they had were willing to be sexually free without coming up with complex psychosexual theories of how to satisfy the pedophile lobby.

Warsaw Pact = communists
NATO = cummyists

Baby, I'm cumming!

Comrade, we are cumming!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2020, 06:42:32 am

"We are cumming, comrade!"

Dominic: Excellent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2020, 06:42:49 am

Communism: Free toddlers for everyone
Capitalism: Pay-to-fill

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2020, 08:47:12 am

Heh, I am kinda surprised about my own country here.
A new law has been proposed by the government, to make asking and recieving payment for being a surrogate mother a criminal offense.
I always was under the impression that that already was forbidden.  Children, including unborn children are not a commodity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 19, 2020, 08:50:52 am

I'm pretty sure it is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country#/media/File:Maternidad_subrogada_situaci%C3%B3n_legal.PNG), I noted that it was one of the only items on the LGBT rights checklist that the Netherlands doesn't have. As you can see, this is one where global attitudes vary dramatically.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2020, 11:01:17 am

Uhm, surrogate mothership isn't an lgbtabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz-only thing.. I think more straight women (that can't conceive due to medical reasons) use it that lgbtabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz.
But apparently it wasn't, or there would have been no need to propose a law for it.  Or maybe some laws we had got lost in the last Russian government hack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2020, 12:57:41 pm

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 19, 2020, 01:14:43 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 19, 2020, 12:57:41 pm

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

QFT.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2020, 01:24:59 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 19, 2020, 12:57:41 pm

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

You can't put a price on life, unless there's a 2 for 1 offer

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 19, 2020, 05:50:04 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on June 19, 2020, 01:14:43 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 19, 2020, 12:57:41 pm

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

QFT.

I don’t think Quantum Field Theory is the intended anagram spread out of the initials, unless it was? ((I worded that horribly, here;s a better version: I don’t know what QFT stands for in this context, Google informed me that it stands for Quantum Field Theory. I am guessing this is not the case here, though I could be wrong, what does QFT stand for when you used it?))

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on June 19, 2020, 06:06:43 pm

In this context it means 'Quoted for truth,' a way to signal agreement with the quoted post without typing out a non-message like 'I agree with this.' It's generally used in forums without a mechanic for liking or upvoting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 19, 2020, 06:31:19 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on June 19, 2020, 06:06:43 pm

In this context it means 'Quoted for truth,' a way to signal agreement with the quoted post without typing out a non-message like 'I agree with this.' It's generally used in forums without a mechanic for liking or upvoting.

thanks for the info

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2020, 11:41:46 pm

I think surrogacy is a positive thing, both for lgbtetc couples as well as for all those women who can't conceive, for whatever reason. Be it through infertility after a miscarriage, or after being stabbed in the guts in a terrorist attack.

I don't see why it is a 'neo-liberal capitalism-religion thing gone crazy', that kinda sounds like an argument by religious extremist who don't want gays to have children.

It just should never become a business model.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: WealthyRadish on June 20, 2020, 01:12:34 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 19, 2020, 11:41:46 pm

I don't see why it is a 'neo-liberal capitalism-religion thing gone crazy', that kinda sounds like an argument by religious extremist who don't want gays to have children.

Some libertarians argue that, for instance, people should be permitted to sell themselves into slavery, in part because it's consistent with the mathematical shorthand neoclassical economists use when saying that every transaction is by definition mutually beneficial (i.e. if both parties choose to go through with an exchange then it must be better for both than doing nothing, right?).

Selling your womb and giving birth to a child on behalf of the rich so they don't have to adopt is in my opinion in that same ballpark of desperation-dystopia as seeing a return to slavery, serfdom, selling internal organs, etc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 20, 2020, 01:21:24 am

While I understand that there are some issues with surrogacy, and I'll admit I didn't know it was so contentious until this discussion, for same-sex couples it's taking on such a different form from rich people buying kids that comparing the two is churlish. I'm pretty hard on natalists most of the time, but even I admit there is some validity to keeping a path open for people to have biological children in spite of being gay or otherwise indisposed of reproduction.

The only way to ensure children are adopted is to develop a stronger adoption culture, which is nearly impossible beneath the crushing heel of neoliberal politics. I don't think surrogacy is the big threat here. Also, letting rich people adopt kids at all may not be the wisest idea, as I'm sure LW will attest in great detail...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 20, 2020, 03:02:01 am

Why?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 04:38:24 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 20, 2020, 03:02:01 am

Why?

Because power has a tendency (https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208)  of revealing who people are (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49405506)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 20, 2020, 06:56:48 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 20, 2020, 01:21:24 am

While I understand that there are some issues with surrogacy, and I'll admit I didn't know it was so contentious until this discussion, for same-sex couples it's taking on such a different form from rich people buying kids that comparing the two is churlish.

An myopic and small minded view, without a hint of solidarity or fraternity (as expected from the American liberal).

On the global scale we, americans and europeans, are all rich people, including our same sex couples. And the impoverished women being forced to sell (and break, because pregnancy is fucking dangerous) their bodies and health (both physical and mental) for our benefit is the ones we should be caring about. Fuck, even putting aside the global issues you can bet your tiny lily white rump the people who will bearing the children will be impoverished lower class women with no other options suffering for the gain of the porky burger class.

Same sex couples can adopt. If they're really that desperate for a blood relation then they can find a woman who also wants a child and come to an agreement about shared parentage with her.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 20, 2020, 07:03:22 am

Quote from: scriver on June 20, 2020, 06:56:48 am

And the impoverished women being forced to sell (and break, because pregnancy is fucking dangerous) their bodies and health (both physical and mental) for our benefit is the ones we should be caring about. Fuck, even putting aside the global issues you can bet your tiny lily white rump the people who will bearing the children will be impoverished lower class women with no other options suffering for the gain of the porky burger class.

Actually, no.  Surrogate mothers over here mostly come from the well-educated middle class, offering surrogacy for altruistic reasons.
The majority stem from the friends and acquaintances circles of those couples who have a child wish.
That's why I thought it already was law here that it cannot be a paid service, because poor people selling their womb is not a thing here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 07:28:25 am

Everyone stop bullying Americans, it's time to bully Europeans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aQ4sx0w.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 20, 2020, 07:30:57 am

YOU MAY BULLY MY LINGONSÅS BUT I DO NOT CARE; LINGONSÅS IS FOREVER; LINGONSÅS IS GOD

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 07:49:49 am

Quote from: scriver on June 20, 2020, 07:30:57 am

YOU MAY BULLY MY LINGONSÅS BUT I DO NOT CARE; LINGONSÅS IS FOREVER; LINGONSÅS IS GOD

Stop right there criminal scum, you violated the sacred distinction between sweet and savoury. Such invalid blasphemy is truly only the product of a Godless, state-succed society concocted in the vilest corridors of Småland. Pay your fine or serve your time, or forever be exiled from humanity, at least until the rest of the scandis stop bullying Sweden's borders

_{please vote for us in eurovision tho}

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 20, 2020, 10:18:46 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 04:38:24 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 20, 2020, 03:02:01 am

Why?

Because power has a tendency (https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208)  of revealing who people are (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49405506)

I'm still confused. Being rich doesn't make you more likely to be a paedophile. More likely to be able to fund and hide your perversion, perhaps.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 11:58:06 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 20, 2020, 10:18:46 am

I'm still confused. Being rich doesn't make you more likely to be a paedophile. More likely to be able to fund and hide your perversion, perhaps.

Exactly, it just reveals who's a complete arsehole by handing them keys to impunity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 20, 2020, 02:08:52 pm

Sometimes I wonder what I'd do with absolute power (insofar as a mortal can have it). Then, more worryingly, I wonder what absolute power would do with me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 02:10:22 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 20, 2020, 02:08:52 pm

Sometimes I wonder what I'd do with absolute power (insofar as a mortal can have it). Then, more worryingly, I wonder what absolute power would do with me.

Everyone pay your Dwarf Fortress tax or 12 years dungeon

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 20, 2020, 02:19:46 pm

“And now at last it comes. You will give me the Power freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Dwarf. And I shall not be dark, but ambitious and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!”

He lifted up his hand and from the ring that he wore there issued a great light that illuminated him alone and left all else dark. He stood before the nations seeming now tall beyond measurement, and bearded beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then he let his hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly he laughed again, and lo! he was shrunken: a stout dwarf, clad in simple white, whose rough voice was harsh yet sad.

“I pass the test”, he said. “I will diminish, and go into the Forums and remain DwarfyOne.”
XXXX

"I would use this Authority from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine."

XXXX

Honestly, my ambition would be great, my intent honourable. But justice is subjective, and what liberates some oppresses others; it is not a mantle I'd willingly bear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 02:20:57 pm

They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 20, 2020, 03:32:40 pm

Beating the simulation by rolling over into 0x7FFF...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on June 21, 2020, 01:43:14 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 20, 2020, 02:08:52 pm

Sometimes I wonder what I'd do with absolute power (insofar as a mortal can have it). Then, more worryingly, I wonder what absolute power would do with me.

The real issue would be maintaining power. You’d need an aristocratic class of corrupt sicophants who you could bribe with wealth and power of their own in order to keep you on to and prevent any upstart from usurping you. Then you’d need the odd purge to cleanse out the disloyal and instil a sense of fear in the others so that they remain content to serve beneath you. If you’re not a complete asshole, you’ll just wind up like Lenin while a real asshole takes the reigns. This is the fatal weakness of autocracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on June 21, 2020, 10:42:30 am

So, is Cameron just making shitty decisions because he thinks that way people will remember him as something other than a pigfucker? Does he not know he can be "That pigfucker Cameron, who ruined the NHS" etc.?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 07:28:25 am

Everyone stop bullying Americans, it's time to bully Europeans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aQ4sx0w.png)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/538/731/0fc.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 21, 2020, 11:10:27 am

Quote from: Iduno on June 21, 2020, 10:42:30 am

So, is Cameron just making shitty decisions because he thinks that way people will remember him as something other than a pigfucker? Does he not know he can be "That pigfucker Cameron, who ruined the NHS" etc.?

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 20, 2020, 07:28:25 am

Everyone stop bullying Americans, it's time to bully Europeans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/aQ4sx0w.png)

You know Cameron has been out of goverment for almost four years now, right?

What does he have to do with anything? As far as I know he´s in his house cooking bread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 21, 2020, 11:12:40 am

Que no los bocadillos

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 21, 2020, 11:14:14 am

Quote from: scriver on June 21, 2020, 11:12:40 am

Que no los bocadillos

Scheisseeeeeeee 

Fixed now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 21, 2020, 01:04:50 pm

God fucking damnit.Today there was a demonstration against the lockdown measures in the Hague. It had been forbidden by the government because they expected more people to show up than deemed safe because of corona.

Instead, people organised a 'picknick' and came anyways.The mayor gave in to the protestors, and allowed them to have a demonstration after all (from 13:00h to 13:30h).

This all went peaceful, until football hooligans came to riot.Police used water cannons and cavalry charges to disperse them and around 100 people have been arrested.

I am okay with that. If some rednecks come and turn a peaceful demo into riots, sure, put a water cannon on them and book them (note that dutch police are in no way comparable to US police. Dutch police serve the public and are your friend).

But what I am not okay with, is that a Volkskrant reporter, who happened to ride his bike a few blocks away from the demo, was coerced towards the demonstration site by the police, and when he got there, he was arrested by the riot police. Even after showing his press card, he was not released and is still being held.

And that pisses me off.  Free press is one of THE pillars of our free democracy.  Not sure what to do, I am toying with the idea to call 112 (911) to report the mayor of the Hague for endangering democracy (a charge which falls under the terrorism laws nowadays).
(why the mayor you might wonder, that's because in the Netherlands, the mayor is the chief of police)


Keep your stinking fingers off our reporters!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2020, 06:02:13 am

Wait, so they forced the reporter to join the riot and then arrested him for being there? wut? There's entrapment and then there's this

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 22, 2020, 06:12:43 am

Police forced the reporter to join the peaceful protest and then other (riot) police arrested him for being there.  There were no riots at the Malieveld, there was a sit-in.
The rioting football hooligans were rioting somewhere in the city center.
At the end of the day, over 400 people were arrested.
In a statement, our prime minister did not condemn the demonstration, but he did add that 'football hooligans who had used tons of cocaine'  ruined the peace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2020, 02:46:45 pm

Reading knife attack confirmed to be terrorism. Police keeping an open mind as to motive, but considering he was trying to return to Libya to join a militant jihadist group, probably wasn't an environmentalist (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/21/reading-stabbings-park-three-dead-killed-knife-attack/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 22, 2020, 02:53:08 pm

All it says was that they feared that was his motive for trying to return to Libya, not that they had anything to prove it. I'd like to know exactly what these "serious mental health problems" were, given that attacking random men in a park isn't exactly glorifying salaf.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2020, 03:21:01 am

Glory & rationality didn't seem to be conflicting issues in the London Bridge or Manchester attacks, terrorism is inherently ugly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2020, 02:28:05 am

In Poland, the city council of Swidnik declared itself free of lgbt ideology last year, stating it wanted nothing to do with the 'European sexual revolution'.
As it stands today, 1/3d of all Poland's cities, provinces and districts followed it's example, and are now 'lgbt-free'.
Poland's ruling party PiS is campaining for the upcoming presidential elections with a single message: The Polish people can choose between the rainbow flag or the Polish flag.
Polish president Duda gave a speech calling lgbt 'more dangerous than communism', and said homosexuality was 'smuggeled into schools' to ' sexualize children'.
It seems Poland is not a very nice place if you're not straight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 26, 2020, 02:30:27 am

It's amazing how quickly PiS has completely fucked up Poland, at this rate there will just be a pit going down to the Earth's mantel by next year.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cheesy Honkers on June 26, 2020, 04:49:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 26, 2020, 02:28:05 am

It seems Poland is not a very nice place if you're not straight.

Fixed and agreed

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 26, 2020, 02:30:27 am

It's amazing how quickly PiS has completely fucked up Poland, at this rate there will just be a pit going down to the Earth's mantel by next year.

Do you think that a nationalist party magically changed the country overnight? No, this is simply the effect of the politics post '89. We're simply reaping what we sowed for 30 years of nationalist/liberal politics even with the greatest luck in Eastern Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 26, 2020, 05:17:04 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 26, 2020, 02:28:05 am

Poland is not a very nice place if you're not straight.

That depends on how they deal with homosexuals. It's one thing to reject the European trend towards gender politics and cultural lgbt values, another to make homosexuality/queerness/transgender/asexuality/lesbianism/pansexualism illegal.

I don't know enough about it to decide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 26, 2020, 05:26:11 am

What I understand, it's not strictly illegal, as long as you don't let anyone see it. So no walking hand in hand for gay couples out on the street.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 26, 2020, 09:07:19 am

The 'lgbt ideology-free zones' have no legal weight behind them. They do not criminalise homosexuality in any way or target individuals. Strictly speaking, all they do is declare that 'we in this here town/region do not take kindly to promoting the thing'.
Their legal status is mostly symbolic, but of course in practice they do end up normalising homophobic attitudes (which were by all means already present) and provide some basis for blocking initiatives deemed non-kosher by the town council - like lgbt pride parades or sex education in local schools.

The whole thing is deeply politicized along the ruling party/opposition lines. It seems that for every lgbt ideology-free town there's another declaring support for the community, and the political affiliation of the council members is a very good predictor of which way the attitude swings.
It also ties in with the recent paedophilia scandals in the Catholic Church, with the supposed gay lobby among the clergy, and the normalisation of lgbt-friendly attitudes, being blamed for the whole thing (yes, paedophilia is associated with homosexuality in this narrative). The religious electorate by and large supports the ruling party, so it has been taken up as a political issue.


In short, no, one can't get arrested for holding hands in an lgbt ideology-free zone, but one might get angry slurs thrown their way more readily than usual.


My perception as an outsider looking in, is that overall the attitudes towards the lgbt community are slowly but steadily improving, and the whole 'zones' thing is more of a politically manufactured rallying cry to whip up the conservative electorate rather than the reflection of a sudden upswing in homophobia among the general populace.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 26, 2020, 09:14:00 am

I thought you were polish, pallazzo?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 26, 2020, 09:46:41 am

I am, but I'm not lgbt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on June 26, 2020, 09:52:08 am

How is this possible? Pederasty of the clergy has been documented (By the church its own damn fucking self even!) since the dark ages, back when being gay meant you got a pear of anguish shoved up your ass, and opened up wider than trump's ego.


There is a MUCH STRONGER correlation between kiddie boinking and conservative thinking, than there is between kiddie boinking and liberal homosexual tolerance.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 26, 2020, 10:14:42 am

The narrative doesn't have to be air-tight, just reinforce the pre-existing biases. So if you already know that gay-bad and church-good, then the problem is not the institution, but them gays masquerading as priests in order to satisfy their unnatural urges.

I mean, you've been living under the Brave Trump World for a few years now. You probably know all about deflecting already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 26, 2020, 01:22:22 pm

I don't really mind it then. People have a right to not want to promote something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 26, 2020, 03:17:49 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 26, 2020, 01:22:22 pm

I don't really mind it then. People have a right to not want to promote something.

When that something is human rights (e.g. lgbt+ rights) I believe you can rightfully criticize the unwilling.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 26, 2020, 03:33:18 pm

All I know about it is what I've seen here, so I'll not pretend to knowledge I don't have. If this is true -

Quote

Strictly speaking, all they do is declare that 'we in this here town/region do not take kindly to promoting the thing'.

- then it seems like they're simply not promoting its cultural aspects. That's massively different from restricting rights.

Perhaps it's one step on a slippery path. That's the only issue I might have.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 26, 2020, 04:00:47 pm

*shrug* for what I've seen  "promoting homosexuality" is a warcry for zealously religious arch-conservatives so I'm kind of suspicious. Really, it has shades of a conspiracy theory (a gay lobby promoting gayness?).
It can be a trojan horse for worse things down the line.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 26, 2020, 04:04:21 pm

I propose we of Europol Thread should come together as a people to declare this thread a Th4DwArfY1-ideology free zone. This is massively different from banning him, we're just refusing to support the recent trend towards Th4DwArfY1 identity politics and showing our distinctive thread character.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 26, 2020, 04:29:04 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 26, 2020, 04:04:21 pm

I propose we of Europol Thread should come together as a people to declare this thread a Th4DwArfY1-ideology free zone. This is massively different from banning him, we're just refusing to support the recent trend towards Th4DwArfY1 identity politics and showing our distinctive thread character.

I mean, sure, if you want? If people don't want me to post, I won't. That's just polite. I've no burning desire to proselytise.

I'll look into it more in the morning and hold off on posting until I'm better informed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 26, 2020, 05:48:45 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 26, 2020, 03:33:18 pm

All I know about it is what I've seen here, so I'll not pretend to knowledge I don't have. If this is true -

Quote

Strictly speaking, all they do is declare that 'we in this here town/region do not take kindly to promoting the thing'.

- then it seems like they're simply not promoting its cultural aspects. That's massively different from restricting rights.

Yeah, they’re free to do that, but It’ll be more complicated than that in practice.

You remember when there was a surge in racist hate crimes after Brexit? While Brexit isn’t a racist thing, it was like lighting the blue touch paper for those that hold racist views that it was okay to act on them.

Like Il Palazzo said, folk in charge saying they’re not promoting LGBT ideology is tacit approval of homophobic attitudes, and that it’s okay to act on them. Bad juju ensues, for people who are lgbt and people who are suspected of being lgbt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 27, 2020, 04:43:08 am

How would you react if someone said "it's not illegal to be black, as long as you don't go about teaching our kids that black people are equal to white people, or promoting black people's rights"?

It's the same thing basically.  You don't choose to be born black, just like you don't choose to be born lgbt.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 27, 2020, 07:50:15 am

Quote from: wierd on June 26, 2020, 09:52:08 am

There is a MUCH STRONGER correlation between kiddie boinking and conservative thinking, than there is between kiddie boinking and liberal homosexual tolerance.

bruh, they literally packaged liberal homosexual tolerance with pedophilia (https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208)

Quote

The researchers found that several of the foster fathers were high-profile academics. They speak of a network that included high-ranking members of the Max Planck Institute, Berlin's Free University, and the notorious Odenwald School in Hesse, West Germany, which was at the center of a major pedophilia scandal several years ago. It has since been closed down.

There hasn't been a "conservative thinking" of pedophilia, there has been a progressive school of pedophilia. That's not to say there haven't been conservative pedophiles, but you didn't say that - you said there is a link between conservative thinking and pedophilia, which is fairly petty mudslinging when it's clear conservative thinking has opposed pedophilia, whilst progressives like Foucault, Derrida, Simone de Beauvoir and so on - whose works still remain foundational study materials in University disciplines like postmodernism, feminism and intersectionality, advocated for legal pedophilia.

Quote from: https://www.rt.com/news/492170-berlin-pedophiles-foster-children/

Berlin’s Green Party called on Tuesday for an investigation into a massive child abuse scandal that saw foster children placed into the care of pedophiles for more than 30 years – all the way up to 2003. According to a new report published on Monday, the city’s educational authorities and Senate knew what was taking place, and the practice was “accepted, supported, [and] defended” by left-wing politicians and academics throughout the 1970s, 80s and 90s.

And if you look at the NA movements, you see the same pattern - pedophilia advocates attaching their cause to leftist causes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Thorstad). If recent revelations about powerful pedos in the church, in various governments both state and local level, the UN, the security services, academia and the street are to go by, shit is global and shit is pervasive. I would argue that pedophiles in progressive circles and pedophiles in conservative circles share one trait in common, that only appears to be separate.

In both cases, the taboo is so strong that pedophiles must align themselves with the morality of the majority. In progressive circles, they attach themselves to the next progressive vanguard cause, fighting to place themselves at the forefront so people are more inclined to look the other way, owing to their usefulness and the embarrassment of blowback. You can see this stuff in how people like Harry Hay are still popular figures in LGBT institutions, still receiving honours and memorials despite such persons having been very vocal supporters of NAMBLA. And of course, we have the recent Berlin sexologist Helmut, who explicitly linked the normalisation of pedophilia as just another step to be taken in tandem with casual sex & homosexual sex.  In conservative circles, their exists no language for arguing permissive attitudes to pedophilia, yet the phenomenon remains the same - attachment to vanguard causes. And so you see those con politicians who so vociferously fight to "protect the children," all the whilst they are themselves the danger. The only difference is the former is for social engineering, the latter is for camouflage. Either way, it is a great problem, wouldn't you agree?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on June 27, 2020, 08:45:36 pm

We totally shouldn't love our children, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on June 28, 2020, 01:25:02 am

Oh, you should love your children alright.  But do it with your heart and mind, not with your physical body.

EG, no sexual contact yo.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 28, 2020, 04:30:53 am

See, personally, I really don't think that pedophiles should be reviled per definition. It's not their fault for having a harmful paraphilia.

However, I do believe that that's exactly what it is: A harmful paraphilia. Due to the nature of the dynamic, it cannot be acted upon under sane, safe, and consensual boundaries. This is cause for pity and understanding, so that it's possible to find alternative methods of helping these people lead well-adjusted, fulfilled lives.

There is a notable difference between simply being a pedophile, and actively acting upon those desires by abusing children. Those people are rapists, and will not find much pity or understanding from me.


I feel that in order to create a safer society, we actually need more openness towards pedophilia, specifically so that solutions can be found in a reasonable manner instead of just shunning them all in disgust and hoping the problem fixes itself when you're not looking at it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on June 28, 2020, 10:04:18 am

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Kagus.

LW. Stop trying to conflate pedophilia with LGBTQ causes. Just because some activists have attempted to hijack the movement for their own purposes, that does not mean that the two are linked and correlated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 28, 2020, 10:23:22 am

I think that was his point, if I’m not mistaken.

wierd was saying conservatives are paedos, much more so than libs, and LW was saying libs can be just as much paedos as conservatives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 10:27:43 am

Ok, but LW is still wrong. Pedophilia doesn't need justification or camouflage among the far-right, it's just accepted, which is why right-wing institutions so reliably cover up for and protect child rapists. That is the predictable result of maintaining ideologies which necessarily require sexual ownership and guardianship while emphasizing authority and fecundity from the earliest possible age.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 10:39:38 am

I believe "regular" pedophiles (who don't act on their desires) must be imprisoned for life so they don't molest chilren... while actual kiddy diddlers must have the same fate as any other rapists-- against a wall with a gun pointed at their head. I truly despise them both. However this must be carried out by the state.

And I do not believe there is any real correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia and I support gay rights (I'm bi, what else do you expect).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on June 28, 2020, 10:46:15 am

Protection from abusers is largely based on culture: it's why you hear about abuse being endemic in some organizations, but not others.

Here's an article that provides some analysis of religous protection of abusers: https://religiondispatches.org/a-church-group-a-lawsuit-and-a-culture-of-abuse/

There's an excellent example in the SPLC, too, though that was racial harassment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:25 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on June 28, 2020, 10:04:18 am

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Kagus.

LW. Stop trying to conflate pedophilia with LGBTQ causes. Just because some activists have attempted to hijack the movement for their own purposes, that does not mean that the two are linked and correlated.

He's not conflating pedophilia with the LGBT cause. He's claiming precisely what you said - pedophiles have attempted to hijack it for their own purposes.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 10:27:43 am

Ok, but LW is still wrong. Pedophilia doesn't need justification or camouflage among the far-right, it's just accepted, which is why right-wing institutions so reliably cover up for and protect child rapists. That is the predictable result of maintaining ideologies which necessarily require sexual ownership and guardianship while emphasizing authority and fecundity from the earliest possible age.

Any evidence for 'far-right' acceptance/normalising of pedophilia?

Because I would imagine that ideologies so deeply enmeshed with notions of 'proper' family - man in charge, woman in kitchen, children playing outside - would react viscerally to pedophilia. Much like the generally-accepted-as-right-wing UVF always did. They gave two options to pedophiles - run or die.

In essence, I think that your politicised finger pointing is unnecessary and - perhaps the greater crime - transparent.

Quote from: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 10:39:38 am

I believe "regular" pedophiles (who don't act on their desires) must be imprisoned for life so they don't molest chilren... while actual kiddy diddlers must have the same fate as any other rapists-- against a wall with a gun pointed at their head. I truly despise them both. However this must be carried out by the state.

And I do not believe there is any real correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia and I support gay rights (I'm bi, what else do you expect).

Pedophiles are a wild card. But, for a punishment to be applied, a crime must take place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 10:50:57 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:25 am

Pedophiles are a wild card. But, for a punishment to be applied, a crime must take place.

How about possession of child porn? That is usually pretty solid proof of pedophilia.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 28, 2020, 10:53:37 am

Circling the wagons isn’t solely limited to the far-right though, as LW pointed out.

Whether that’s through acceptance of paedophilia, refusal to accept a member of your in-group is capable of such an act, or merely protecting the image of your identity, is a different discussion.

Quote from: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 10:39:38 am

I believe "regular" pedophiles (who don't act on their desires) must be imprisoned for life so they don't molest chilren... while actual kiddy diddlers must have the same fate as any other rapists-- against a wall with a gun pointed at their head. I truly despise them both. However this must be carried out by the state.

How do you intend to find a paedophile that doesn’t act on their desires if they don’t present themselves by acting on their desires? Sounds like a system that will be rife with false accusations, allowing people deemed as undesirables to get removed merely from the suggestion.


Edit:

Quote from: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 10:50:57 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:25 am

Pedophiles are a wild card. But, for a punishment to be applied, a crime must take place.

How about possession of child porn? That is usually pretty solid proof of pedophilia.

That’s acting on a desire, which you said wouldn’t happen.

What of situations in which two teenagers below the age of consent send each other pictures? By law, that is creation and possession of child porn, while it’s two people in a relationship engaging in consensual sharing. Both go to jail forever in your scenario.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 28, 2020, 10:59:59 am

It's incredibly indicative, yes. But even knowing someone has pedophilic leanings doesn't justify locking them away.

Acting on pedophilia is abhorent. Being a pedophile - I honestly don't know whether I find that abhorent or piteous. But whatever I believe, being something shouldn't be a crime, even if acting upon it is.
I could certainly support monitoring suspicious individuals, though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 11:02:03 am

I worded it poorly then. By "acting on their desires" I meant actually raping children. Possession of child porn would be the former punishment. And about teenagers, well, pretty sure minors are punished less for crimes here (didn't check, and if it isn't like that then it should be). Also is it even pedophilia if both are underage? Then it's just an underage relationship which... I'm not sure if it should be punished or not, and if it should, then the punishment should be minor (no pun intended).

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 28, 2020, 10:59:59 am

But whatever I believe, being something shouldn't be a crime, even if acting upon it is.

And this is where I disagree. I believe pedos are a danger to society by their very existence.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 28, 2020, 11:41:30 am

Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder. Usually, but not always the result of sexual abuse or extreme neglect in the pedophile's own youth.
Pedophiles should not be punished, they should get care and psychiatric treatment.

This can only happen if the stigma is lifted or they will be too afraid of being mob lynched to admit their feelings towards children.

Pedosexuals are pedophiles who act upon their desires. They need to be arrested and either put in prison or in closed psychiatric wards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 28, 2020, 11:56:07 am

Quote

Pedophiles should not be punished, they should get care and psychiatric treatment.

I would have considered this, but it gave strong Oscar Wilde/Alan Turing vibes.

Edit: To clarify, namely the "let's cure homosexuality!" sentiment. I don't think you become a pedophile, I think you're born to it. Ergo there is no cure.

A subsequent wikipedia dive supports me:

Quote

While not causes of pedophilia themselves, childhood abuse by adults or comorbid psychiatric illnesses—such as personality disorders and substance abuse—are risk factors for acting on pedophilic urges.[7] Blanchard, Cantor, and Robichaud addressed comorbid psychiatric illnesses that, "The theoretical implications are not so clear. Do particular genes or noxious factors in the prenatal environment predispose a male to develop both affective disorders and pedophilia, or do the frustration, danger, and isolation engendered by unacceptable sexual desires—or their occasional furtive satisfaction—lead to anxiety and despair?"[68] They indicated that, because they previously found mothers of pedophiles to be more likely to have undergone psychiatric treatment,[57] the genetic possibility is more likely.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 28, 2020, 11:59:27 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 10:27:43 am

Ok, but LW is still wrong. Pedophilia doesn't need justification or camouflage among the far-right, it's just accepted, which is why right-wing institutions so reliably cover up for and protect child rapists. That is the predictable result of maintaining ideologies which necessarily require sexual ownership and guardianship while emphasizing authority and fecundity from the earliest possible age.

Your own argument defeats itself. If it was actually accepted it wouldn't need to be covered up.

I wonder if the German pedo-professor and his Berlin enabler were acting in the open about this. Likewise for that school that was mentioned. I believe it was connected to the same sociologist?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 28, 2020, 12:03:16 pm

The aim of care for pedophiles is not to cure, but to help them not act on their desires.
At least that's how pedophile care is done over here. In healthcare education, it is taught that we should not judge pedophiles, but accept them and help them cope.
You'd be surprised how many pedophiles are terrified by the idea of becoming a pedosexual. They love children too much to want to hurt them in such a way, yet are afraid of their desires.
Most pedophiles actually want help to cope with that.
It would be inhumane to put pedophiles in prison.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 28, 2020, 12:07:03 pm

Ah. It's a good idea to teach control to pedophiles, certainly. And the sentiment to accept them seems worthy, at least on the surface.

I just never could. I react to even the concept with too much revulsion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 12:13:55 pm

I'm finding it literally impossible to empathize with them. I don't know why but they just seem completely disgusting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 28, 2020, 12:16:24 pm

Note that pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. It is an affectionate disorder. Pedophiles 'fall in love with' children.
There's straight pedophiles, there are gay pedophiles, there are bisexual pedophiles and even asexual pedophiles.

Quote from: MaxTheFox on June 28, 2020, 12:13:55 pm

I'm finding it literally impossible to empathize with them. I don't know why but they just seem completely disgusting.

Personally I am much more disgusted by people who advertise grabbing women by the pussy, like Trump.
Those are the real sexual predators.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 01:14:18 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:25 am

Any evidence for 'far-right' acceptance/normalising of pedophilia?

Because I would imagine that ideologies so deeply enmeshed with notions of 'proper' family - man in charge, woman in kitchen, children playing outside - would react viscerally to pedophilia. Much like the generally-accepted-as-right-wing UVF always did. They gave two options to pedophiles - run or die.

In essence, I think that your politicised finger pointing is unnecessary and - perhaps the greater crime - transparent.

Scare quotes for far-right?

You only need observe how the right-wing discusses this topic, particularly when they think they're among friends. Of course, few actually "accept pedophilia" in those terms - to do that would be to compromise the politic of sexual revulsion which the right usually employs against women, LGBT folk, and the nonreligious to varied degrees and extremes.

Rather, what they tend to do is incorporate factually pedophilic behaviors into their perception of sexual normalcy, either on the public end (heterosexual marriage and childrearing) or tacit neglect on the clandestine end (incestuous, non-heterosexual, or otherwise forbidden like with rapist priests). The classic version of this is well known of course, the religiously-motivated "marry young and have as many children as possible" which obviously creates the setup to pressure down past age 18.

In the modern era though, you see all sorts of advocates online for abolishing age of consent laws or privatizing marriage, both a setup to go all Warren Jeffs and have child brides at the rural compound, or such. Thus the stereotype of the libertarian pedophile. Then there's the Red Pill/Incel angle, reducing women to their capacity to breed and a fetishistic portrayal of young "tradwives" with screeching contrast that any woman over the age of 25 is worthless. By contrast, the priest who likes to feel up little boys isn't accepted for doing so, but for being a priest at the head of a church that is beyond reproach by us mere mortals.

For groups that are right-wing but morally panic over pedophiles like your UVF example, the answer is simply that they are punishing deviancy, and possibly seeking spectacle like in the case of vigilante groups seeking to bait pedophiles and then record beating them up at the mall for 100,000 subscribers on Youtube. Hypocritical? Sometimes yes, sometimes no depending on if the group then goes home to complain about their lack of tradwives on Discord, but it's not as if hypocritical behavior ever stopped the right before.

Does the average right-wing voter tacitly support pedophilia? Not really. But then, they don't need to. They just need to tacitly support maintaining the Old Boys Club or the extremist theorists, and those people do tacitly support pedophilia when they aren't committing it themselves. They just don't portray it as such.

Quote from: scriver on June 28, 2020, 11:59:27 am

Your own argument defeats itself. If it was actually accepted it wouldn't need to be covered up.

As is the case with many aspects of right-wing politics, there's a huge gulf between ingroup and outgroup behavior. What gets spoken at the bar or in the chatroom isn't what gets spoken on TV. Public honesty about goals is rather anathema to the right-wing, and increases dramatically as you look at more extreme groups.

Not really a great surprise, there. "We want to protect our faith and culture" is sanitized and garners votes. Without euphemisms like that, the bloody reality would discourage many.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on June 28, 2020, 01:20:59 pm

I was always under the impression that the reason statutory laws exist is partly because children are deemed incapable of making the kind of moral and legal decisions they would otherwise be required to make.  Engaging a child and expecting them to make mature decisions that hold life-altering consequences, such as pregnancy, stigma, the risk of (sometimes) permanent stds . . . and to do so in a way that absolutely can not establish a mutual relationship where both partners can contribute evenly.

How?  there's no way to justify it to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on June 28, 2020, 01:33:02 pm

[Where's the openly pedophile endorsing conservatives?]

Well.. While it is US conservatives (which are like conservative PRIME compared to EU conservatives), there is this lovely tidbit.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-republicans-are-now-saying-what-they-really-think-about-taxes-pedophiles-mass-shootings-2017-11-17

There's also the "politicians never tried for sex abuse in the 80s, despite mounds of evidence" from the UK, but is not overtly associated with a political affiliation, like the US rhetoric issue above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_paedophile_dossier
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/25/police-and-politicians-turned-blind-eye-to-westminster-child-abuse-claims-report

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on June 28, 2020, 03:45:37 pm

Quote from: pisskop on June 28, 2020, 01:20:59 pm

Engaging a child and expecting them to make mature decisions that hold life-altering consequences, such as pregnancy, stigma, the risk of (sometimes) permanent stds

Well not only those visibly consequences, there can also be psychological consequences we often downplay. For example, looking into it, when you have boys who have had sex with an adult woman often the boys don't express distress, and we go "see? they say they're not negatively affected, so it's not a big deal". In these cases they don't have pregnancy risk, most likely didn't get STDs, and the social stigma for this is basically zero.

Except they've done controlled analysis and those boys have worse outcomes on a number of scales than other boys. So whether or not someone says they're affected or thinks they were affected isn't the whole story.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 28, 2020, 04:18:45 pm

Yep, that's the whole thing: Even if they technically give consent, they can't give informed consent due to their immaturity. There is of course some variance from individual to individual, but 18 is a decent enough catch-all.

As such, it's an inherently harmful dynamic when exercised.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2020, 07:45:54 am

Quote from: hector13 on June 28, 2020, 10:23:22 am

I think that was his point, if I’m not mistaken.

wierd was saying conservatives are paedos, much more so than libs, and LW was saying libs can be just as much paedos as conservatives.

yup

Quote from: scriver on June 28, 2020, 11:59:27 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 10:27:43 am

Ok, but LW is still wrong. Pedophilia doesn't need justification or camouflage among the far-right, it's just accepted, which is why right-wing institutions so reliably cover up for and protect child rapists. That is the predictable result of maintaining ideologies which necessarily require sexual ownership and guardianship while emphasizing authority and fecundity from the earliest possible age.

Your own argument defeats itself. If it was actually accepted it wouldn't need to be covered up.

It is however illustrative of the gap between our upper crust and our lower crust, irregardless of political affiliation

Quote from: scriver on June 28, 2020, 11:59:27 am

I wonder if the German pedo-professor and his Berlin enabler were acting in the open about this. Likewise for that school that was mentioned. I believe it was connected to the same sociologist?

Quote from: https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208

Starting in the 1970s psychology professor Helmut Kentler conducted his "experiment." Homeless children in West Berlin were intentionally placed with pedophile men. These men would make especially loving foster parents, Kentler argued.

A study conducted by the University of Hildesheim has found that authorities in Berlin condoned this practice for almost 30 years. The pedophile foster fathers even received a regular care allowance.

Helmut Kentler (1928-2008) was in a leading position at Berlin's center for educational research. He was convinced that sexual contact between adults and children was harmless.

Berlin's child welfare offices and the governing Senate turned a blind eye or even approved of the placements.

This is just reminiscent of the UK migrant grooming gangs or Savile all over again. Thousands of politicians, police, councilors, academics, journalists, at best complicit in knowing what's going on and doing nothing about it, at worse actively involved in lending it monetary, legal and security support. Hell, we've even had MP interns reporting of buggery decades after. You guys seem to be more concerned with covering your bases on blue team vs red team mentality, when it's bloody clear the blue team and red team are on the same team. Hey remember that time the Pentagon found child pornography on government computers (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/24/pentagon-us-staff-downloaded-child-pornography)?

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 28, 2020, 10:49:25 am

Any evidence for 'far-right' acceptance/normalising of pedophilia?

Alt-right homonationalist Milo Yiannopolous argued that pederasty is an important institution of Western civilisation, which got him dropped from the other alt-righters good graces

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2020, 01:14:18 pm

Does the average right-wing voter tacitly support pedophilia? Not really. But then, they don't need to. They just need to tacitly support maintaining the Old Boys Club or the extremist theorists, and those people do tacitly support pedophilia when they aren't committing it themselves. They just don't portray it as such.

I don't understand this pointlessly partisan attitude to anti-pedo. For years I've shitposted on this forum and even ITT about MP pedos, Security pedos, Finance pedos, Media pedos, Religious pedos, Academic pedos, and the peculiar strategies used to defend them - from hate speech laws to infiltration of vanguard causes. Some have been right wing, some have been left wing, some have just been thugs, matters not what they believe in if they are using their influence to rape children. If it is easy for me to point to the institutions I support and say "this building is full of child raping termites, rotting the institution from within," why then when it is revealed that networks of academics and politicians encouraged state-sanctioned pedophilia they get a pass because they used leftist rhetoric? BuT ConSeRVatIveS aRE thE rEAl PEdoPhIlES mindset is self-defeating. Donald Trump and Bill Clinton both knew Epstein. Tories and Labour both bricked the careers of their own MPs for trying to prosecute the migrant grooming gangs. Who cares whether the left hand or right hand is pimp slapping the face of society? Yet the attitude here from the start is "ignore all of these blue-team academic pedophiles, because these red-team priest pedophiles are red."

Bruh be purple, get em both

Quote from: wierd on June 28, 2020, 01:33:02 pm

There's also the "politicians never tried for sex abuse in the 80s, despite mounds of evidence" from the UK, but is not overtly associated with a political affiliation, like the US rhetoric issue above.

It's actually worse than that, the mounds of evidence were destroyed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2020, 07:51:50 am

Quote from: Reelya on June 28, 2020, 03:45:37 pm

Quote from: pisskop on June 28, 2020, 01:20:59 pm

Engaging a child and expecting them to make mature decisions that hold life-altering consequences, such as pregnancy, stigma, the risk of (sometimes) permanent stds

Well not only those visibly consequences, there can also be psychological consequences we often downplay. For example, looking into it, when you have boys who have had sex with an adult woman often the boys don't express distress, and we go "see? they say they're not negatively affected, so it's not a big deal". In these cases they don't have pregnancy risk, most likely didn't get STDs, and the social stigma for this is basically zero.

Except they've done controlled analysis and those boys have worse outcomes on a number of scales than other boys. So whether or not someone says they're affected or thinks they were affected isn't the whole story.

Pretty interesting, did the studies come to any conclusions why they did worse?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on June 29, 2020, 09:53:18 am

As somebody who has habitually favored older women (5-7 or so years on average, but as much as 2x age before), its because those women suck out your lifeforce with every thrust and every meal.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2020, 09:55:06 am

Also in unrelated news, absolute madlads have been setting fire to wheely bins to breathe in the fumes (https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/crime/youths-falkirk-area-have-reportedly-been-setting-fire-wheely-bins-breathe-fumes-2866448)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:36 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2020, 07:45:54 am

If it is easy for me to point to the institutions I support and say "this building is full of child raping termites, rotting the institution from within," why then when it is revealed that networks of academics and politicians encouraged state-sanctioned pedophilia they get a pass because they used leftist rhetoric? BuT ConSeRVatIveS aRE thE rEAl PEdoPhIlES mindset is self-defeating. Donald Trump and Bill Clinton both knew Epstein. Tories and Labour both bricked the careers of their own MPs for trying to prosecute the migrant grooming gangs.

So, all conservatives?  8)

Quote

Who cares whether the left hand or right hand is pimp slapping the face of society? Yet the attitude here from the start is "ignore all of these blue-team academic pedophiles, because these red-team priest pedophiles are red."

Bruh be purple, get em both

My essential response to this is that academia can reform itself, but the churches will keep on having rape clubs until acted upon by an outside force. The essential nature of the environment that allows rape clubs to form is conservative, and that the right-wing fecundity rhetoric leads to far more legalized pedophilia than rogue academics and philosophers. The ideas of the latter have never been accepted when the spotlight is on them, but the former? "Well, better than them turning gay surely, eh boys?" to raucous laughter.

For all that Kentler and company are horrible, there's probably a few who think like him in every conservative church, boomer club, or government association because of the inherent right-wing nature of those institutions creating a space for them to fester. The things these scum think in public are bad enough, but when you manage to scratch the surface? It's nearly beyond belief.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 29, 2020, 11:56:40 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:36 am

My essential response to this is that academia can reform itself, but the churches will keep on having rape clubs until acted upon by an outside force. The essential nature of the environment that allows rape clubs to form is conservative, and that the right-wing fecundity rhetoric leads to far more legalized pedophilia than rogue academics and philosophers. The ideas of the latter have never been accepted when the spotlight is on them, but the former? "Well, better than them turning gay surely, eh boys?" to raucous laughter.

For all that Kentler and company are horrible, there's probably a few who think like him in every conservative church, boomer club, or government association because of the inherent right-wing nature of those institutions creating a space for them to fester. The things these scum think in public are bad enough, but when you manage to scratch the surface? It's nearly beyond belief.

Yes the church has never been known to reform - oh wait.
Your assumption that academia is some powerhouse of self improvement is hopelessly inaccurate. And I'm a doctoral student.

I'm not sure if you're a proponent of unbridled leftist apologism or just really, really hate conservative values enough that you'll literally side with one crop of pedophiles against another.

I'll also note that I always believed right wing groups hated pedophilia. They are damaging to the double community - family (the real 'fecundity' in conservative ideology) and community.
Certainly, the only thing the UVF hated more than IRA scum was a kiddy fiddler.
But I suppose that goes to show you the nuance which is missing in your black and white, discriminative narrative of 'us vs. them'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 29, 2020, 02:25:16 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:36 am

So, all conservatives?  8)

British conservatives no longer exist after Scruton hit the heavenly futon, all Conservatives care about these days are deregulating financial services and weakening labour laws. Environment, family, faith, justice, country, culture, buildings that don't look like shit, nah nah there's no need to do any actual conserving, just don't have kids and pay your taxes. That's all British values has left to defend, queueing and politeness

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:36 am

My essential response to this is that academia can reform itself, but the churches will keep on having rape clubs until acted upon by an outside force.
The essential nature of the environment that allows rape clubs to form is conservative, and that the right-wing fecundity rhetoric leads to far more legalized pedophilia than rogue academics and philosophers. The ideas of the latter have never been accepted when the spotlight is on them, but the former? "Well, better than them turning gay surely, eh boys?" to raucous laughter.

This is in essence the only thing I disagree with; academia is an institution like any other, and the recent examples in France, UK and Germany have demonstrably proven that the pedophile networks had absolutely no intention of reforming nor did their colleagues have any intention of actually dealing with them in a manner that wasn't supportive. The labour party and our academics number one priority with the child grooming gangs was always community cohesion and multiculturalism over law enforcement, and it continued to be so even after the Times went public. Not just academics, take a look at how the BBC closed ranks to cover up their own with the Savile, Gary Glitter cases e.t.c.

There is nothing magic about championing progressive causes that makes an institution immune to pedophiles, especially when there is evidence to the contrary - there are open pedophiles who have enjoyed and still continue to enjoy the favour of academia, like Harry Hay or Allen Ginsberg. Helmet Kentler was employed by the state an an expert witness regarding child abuse cases (of which he was proud to have observed all of the cases he testified in resulting in acquittals), was an open advocate of pedophilia who was given state funding and support to place children in the care of known pedophiles. What I am trying to show here is that academics who form the basis of Western disciplines like Ginsberg, Foucault, Derrida, Satre, Barthes de Beauvoir, Kentler and so on can openly endorse pedophilia, and still have not a single University disavow them.

Likewise it seems bizarre to keep to the partisan rhetoric when the two most recent scandals were labour-led and green party led pedophilia networks. Both labour party and green party are progressive, leftist parties. The ideas of the latter have been proven to have been accepted in the most recent scandal; and like Scriver before said, your argument defeats itself. If a General or a RW-politician or a priest deems fit to hide the fact that they are a pedophile from the rest of society, it is because they are scared of the consequences. If celebrated academics openly endorse pedophilia and run state-sanctioned pedophile networks in the open, publishing in detail their "research", then it is clear to anyone these people fear no judgement of opposing peers.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2020, 11:26:36 am

For all that Kentler and company are horrible, there's probably a few who think like him in every conservative church, boomer club, or government association because of the inherent right-wing nature of those institutions creating a space for them to fester. The things these scum think in public are bad enough, but when you manage to scratch the surface? It's nearly beyond belief.

I would like to point to my long track record of complaining about this exact phenomenon, in a desperate attempt to convince you this is not a case of "our pedos don't count." The existence of one does not disprove the other, the willingness to treat state-sanctioned pedophiles as "rogue" elements is however, a huge fucking problem

*EDIT

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 29, 2020, 11:56:40 am

Yes the church has never been known to reform - oh wait.

Got a huge fucking chuckle out of me that did

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 29, 2020, 11:56:40 am

Your assumption that academia is some powerhouse of self improvement is hopelessly inaccurate. And I'm a doctoral student.

Oh god the fucking dogma, I've had more balanced discussions with Maoist exchange students than an English student

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 29, 2020, 11:56:40 am

I'll also note that I always believed right wing groups hated pedophilia. They are damaging to the double community - family (the real 'fecundity' in conservative ideology) and community.
Certainly, the only thing the UVF hated more than IRA scum was a kiddy fiddler.
But I suppose that goes to show you the nuance which is missing in your black and white, discriminative narrative of 'us vs. them'.

I would've thought the one thing that unified all conservative or RW or traditional or any other synonymous tag group across the world was known for, was a hatred of child abusers. I also just don't get the partisan us vs themenship, but I guess it's because we're not about to see a new civil war same way as the R VS B Americans are squaring up

To put my perspective into simple terms, it doesn't make sense to make it partisan, when it isn't for them. Liberal pedophile Cyril Smith was defended from prosecution by a senior Tory called Victor Montagu, who surprise surprise was a pedophile. How come they can close ranks, but normal people cannot?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 30, 2020, 08:29:21 am

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/29/armed-st-louis-homeowner-only-thing-stopped-crowd-my-rifle/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 30, 2020, 08:31:52 am

This is the Euro thread not the Ameripol thread.
Also, Breitbart, so probably fake news.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Doomblade187 on June 30, 2020, 08:33:14 am

Is real event, very biased take. (Though the protesters did force the gate, I think? Those gates aren't known for security?

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 30, 2020, 08:29:21 am

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/29/armed-st-louis-homeowner-only-thing-stopped-crowd-my-rifle/

"I didn't point the rifle at anybody"

>Proceeds to muzzle sweep the crowd and his wife, with finger on the trigger.

They're dumb and they should feel dumb. Hold guns, be outside, maybe drink some tea? Sure, cool, fine. Point rifle at protesters? That's how you fuckin incite.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 30, 2020, 08:34:41 am

Quote from: martinuzz on June 30, 2020, 08:31:52 am

This is the Euro thread not the Ameripol thread.
Also, Breitbart, so probably fake news.

Nah, it happened. Though you're right, wrong thread. Oops.
It's become a bit of a meme, even.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on June 30, 2020, 08:41:32 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on June 30, 2020, 08:33:14 am

They're dumb and they should feel dumb. Hold guns, be outside, maybe drink some tea? Sure, cool, fine. Point rifle at protesters? That's how you fuckin incite.

Never point a gun anywhere you arent prepared to fire it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 30, 2020, 09:19:33 am

Quote from: pisskop on June 30, 2020, 08:41:32 am

Quote from: Doomblade187 on June 30, 2020, 08:33:14 am

They're dumb and they should feel dumb. Hold guns, be outside, maybe drink some tea? Sure, cool, fine. Point rifle at protesters? That's how you fuckin incite.

Never point a gun anywhere you arent prepared to fire it.

Spoiler: Americans vs Brits (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/gJ8Xtp6.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 01, 2020, 05:13:25 pm

Unsurprisingly, the 300-something changes to the Russian Constitution were voted in.
Among the changes, Putin can now stay president until 2036, gays are not allowed to marry per the Constitution, religion is now a 'core value' of Russia, and Russian law now stands above international law.

Russian opposition had asked the people to not go and vote, because they consider the whole thing a farce, and also to prevent the spread of corona.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2020, 05:03:51 am

So when's Putin gonna become the new tsar

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on July 03, 2020, 08:06:54 am

he doesnt need to do a napoleon.

he has most of the power, indirectly or not.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 08:16:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 01, 2020, 05:13:25 pm

gays are not allowed to marry per the Constitution

Since when were they allowed to in the first place? There were, unfortunately I'd say, no changes in that area, it stayed illegal as before. And honestly I didn't vote and urged my friends to not vote either. They complied.

We need a second third revolution where we kill Putin and his cronies. Preferably after I escape this accursed country. I fucking hate it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on July 03, 2020, 09:07:08 am

https://twitter.com/LabConcerner/status/1278990910391488513 (https://twitter.com/LabConcerner/status/1278990910391488513)

Quote from: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 08:16:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 01, 2020, 05:13:25 pm

gays are not allowed to marry per the Constitution

Since when were they allowed to in the first place? There were, unfortunately I'd say, no changes in that area, it stayed illegal as before. And honestly I didn't vote and urged my friends to not vote either. They complied.

We need a second revolution where we kill Putin and his cronies. Preferably after I escape this accursed country. I fucking hate it.

Yep.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 09:56:20 am

He is... really unpopular among most people younger than 30 from what I've seen. And his supporters aren't immortal, they will inevitably die off or become too old to care. The opposition keeps growing too. In any case I hope communism doesn't return because the USSR was even worse than this. But the commies do have a point. So do the Putinists. And the liberals. And almost every other ideology. An ideal state combines what works from a lot of ideologies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on July 03, 2020, 11:42:29 am

Quote from: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 09:56:20 am

He is... really unpopular among most people younger than 30 from what I've seen. And his supporters aren't immortal, they will inevitably die off or become too old to care. The opposition keeps growing too. In any case I hope communism doesn't return because the USSR was even worse than this. But the commies do have a point. So do the Putinists. And the liberals. And almost every other ideology. An ideal state combines what works from a lot of ideologies.

Depends on how you combine them. Stalin kind of showed that having an authoritarian capitalist in charge of a communist country works out badly (parasitic relationship).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 03, 2020, 01:35:30 pm

He's so WIDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NTlSUWvMg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 03, 2020, 02:56:49 pm

Wide mir is wide

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 05, 2020, 05:19:21 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/u8YJMsy.png)

All right who stole Merkel's snaccs

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on July 21, 2020, 10:35:52 am

Coronavirus recovery fund tentatively agreed upon. (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-summit/eu-reaches-historic-deal-on-pandemic-recovery-after-fractious-summit-idUKKCN24M0DF) I say tentatively, since it still needs to go through both national parliaments and the EU parliament.

It's a clusterfuck of a compromise that will leave a lot of people angry: 360 billion € in loans from the capital market collateralized by the commission (i.e. the common man in the end), 390 billion € in grants (straight up wealth transfer).

I personally hope that it gets voted down, since not only is it ceding more power to Brussels (possibly even beyond the Lisbon Treaty if the rumors of EU taxes is anything to go by) but it also puts member states dangerously close to losing control of the national purse since we'd practically be forced to become guarantors.

Oh, and this also includes slashing into climate funds et al., effectively a US-style debt ceiling (we all know how that will play out), and a laughable rule of law "emergency brake".

All the frugal four really got out of it is an inconsequential increase in the rebate.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Reelya on July 22, 2020, 02:54:58 am

Quote from: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 08:16:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 01, 2020, 05:13:25 pm

gays are not allowed to marry per the Constitution

Since when were they allowed to in the first place? There were, unfortunately I'd say, no changes in that area, it stayed illegal as before.

You really don't get it?

If something is in the constitution then you can't just pass a law to legalize it. It's a huge deal because it makes it illegal to have a law to make it legal, so even if Putin is out of power and the opposition has the majority of parliament, they still couldn't pass a law about that.

Just saying that because it was illegal before then having it in the constitution is no different just shows you don't get the difference between a law and the constitution. One issue is that in the current system it might have been possible for one of the provinces/Republics in Russia to pass a gay marriage law locally. Note how gay marriage developed in the USA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States), first with one state, then slowly, but eventually with all states recognizing those marriages as legal. The constitutional change is a top-down ruling preventing any city or republic within Russia from choosing to legalize this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 22, 2020, 04:44:30 am

Thank you Reelya.
I should have tried to explain that after MtF's post but I didn't have the energy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MaxTheFox on July 22, 2020, 06:16:14 am

Quote from: Reelya on July 22, 2020, 02:54:58 am

Quote from: MaxTheFox on July 03, 2020, 08:16:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 01, 2020, 05:13:25 pm

gays are not allowed to marry per the Constitution

Since when were they allowed to in the first place? There were, unfortunately I'd say, no changes in that area, it stayed illegal as before.

You really don't get it?

If something is in the constitution then you can't just pass a law to legalize it. It's a huge deal because it makes it illegal to have a law to make it legal, so even if Putin is out of power and the opposition has the majority of parliament, they still couldn't pass a law about that.

Just saying that because it was illegal before then having it in the constitution is no different just shows you don't get the difference between a law and the constitution. One issue is that in the current system it might have been possible for one of the provinces/Republics in Russia to pass a gay marriage law locally. Note how gay marriage developed in the USA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States), first with one state, then slowly, but eventually with all states recognizing those marriages as legal. The constitutional change is a top-down ruling preventing any city or republic within Russia from choosing to legalize this.

Huh. I didn't realize that. Thanks.

Well that just increases the need to, in the event of a violent revolution, simply shred the constitution and write a new one. This one is pretty fucked up anyways at this point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Eschar on July 22, 2020, 01:21:51 pm

I'd say those constitution writers have got their priorities way out of balance

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on July 22, 2020, 01:28:25 pm

Quote from: Eschar on July 22, 2020, 01:21:51 pm

I'd say those constitution writers have got their priorities way out of balance

It was their dump stat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 17, 2020, 09:54:50 am

In France, police shot and killed a 18-year old Chechen, who had just decapitated a french history teacher with a kitchen knife, near the schoolyard, and attacked the police when they tried to apprehend him.
Police suspect the attack was a response to the teacher showing a Mohammed cartoon to his class while teaching about the history of freedom of expression.
Macron strongly condemned the attack, saying 'this is our fight', and describing the attack as a 'islamic terrorist attack'.
The french justice department has started an investigation into a radical group the attacker, who was born in Moscow, belonged to, describing it as a 'terrorist criminal organisation'.
9 People belonging to the group have been arrested.  One of those is the parent of a student at the school the history teacher was teaching at.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 17, 2020, 10:50:09 am

As if the coof wasn't bad enough, you still gotta worry about all the jihadists coming home. Truly geography teachers are the most powerful of enemies, if they are enough to undermine your entire religious worldview

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on October 17, 2020, 08:42:25 pm

Hm how about we give israel to tchetchens, tchetchenia to the russophones in donbass, and east germany to the jews, then we use the living bodies of the east germans to bombard schools in donbass. Let the world know that whatever it was, we mean it very strongly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2020, 06:13:16 am

Quote from: dragdeler on October 17, 2020, 08:42:25 pm

Hm how about we give israel to tchetchens, tchetchenia to the russophones in donbass, and east germany to the jews, then we use the living bodies of the east germans to bombard schools in donbass. Let the world know that whatever it was, we mean it very strongly.

Only if we give Crimea to Turkey, Istanbul to Greece, Cyprus to Italy and Sicily to France

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on October 18, 2020, 06:14:46 am

Aight no problem just throw 'em in there, it'll sort itself out.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 18, 2020, 07:18:31 am

Don't forget to give Gibraltar to Spain and Northern Ireland to Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 18, 2020, 01:07:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 18, 2020, 07:18:31 am

Don't forget to give Gibraltar to Spain and Northern Ireland to Ireland.

That's profoundly uninspired. Give Gibraltar to Singapore and Northern Ireland to the Australian Aboriginals as recompense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on October 18, 2020, 01:09:53 pm

Don't be silly.

You should give at least one of them to the Sentinel Islanders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 18, 2020, 01:10:43 pm

Northern Ireland is rightfully Serbian soil

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 18, 2020, 01:16:49 pm

Quote from: wierd on October 18, 2020, 01:09:53 pm

Don't be silly.

You should give at least one of them to the Sentinel Islanders.

Taiwan for the Andamanese. Hong Kong for the Palestinians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2020, 04:51:22 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 18, 2020, 07:18:31 am

Don't forget to give Gibraltar to Spain and Northern Ireland to Ireland.

Guys I fucked up, I gave Gibraltar to Ireland and Northern Ireland to Argentina

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on October 18, 2020, 04:55:52 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2020, 04:51:22 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 18, 2020, 07:18:31 am

Don't forget to give Gibraltar to Spain and Northern Ireland to Ireland.

Guys I fucked up, I gave Gibraltar to Ireland and Northern Ireland to Argentina

Aw, shit. Now the Thatchers will be after your ass.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 18, 2020, 05:16:07 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2020, 04:51:22 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 18, 2020, 07:18:31 am

Don't forget to give Gibraltar to Spain and Northern Ireland to Ireland.

Guys I fucked up, I gave Gibraltar to Ireland and Northern Ireland to Argentina

Brilliant.
We will strangle them from within. Or possibly take over. Imagine. An independent, trans-oceanic Northern Irish Empire.

Ye gods who watch above, hide thine divine tears.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2020, 05:40:55 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 18, 2020, 05:16:07 pm

Brilliant.
We will strangle them from within. Or possibly take over. Imagine. An independent, trans-oceanic Northern Irish Empire.

Ye gods who watch above, hide thine divine tears.

In 2060 the Falkland Islands are handed over to Belfast

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on October 18, 2020, 11:12:45 pm

Northern Ireland is subsequently placed under the jurisdiction of Iwo Jima, which had previously been ceded to the Autonomous Republic of Alsace-Lorraine, after the latter's proxy conquest of Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 29, 2020, 09:22:55 am

So... France. Shit's going down, terror attack after terror attack. All because of a cartoon.

Condolences aside, how the fuck do we deal with this? The islamists are here and some of them are probably citizens so we can't deport them. Europe is in need of some serious deradicalization.

Of course, none of that will work long-term if the pipe is still leaking. It's time to tighten the border. And perhaps it is also time to restrict naturalization so we aren't stopped as easily by citizenship. I suggest a flexible generational requirement to weed out any foreign influence, since we cannot read minds.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A naturalization candidate should be a non-citizen immigrant

• who was born in the country;
• whose present ancestors and present ancestors' present ancestors are not first-generation immigrants, asylum seekers, non-citizens living abroad, domestic or foreign terrorists, and they don't have a history of living in a parallel society;
• whose non-citizen spouse, if applicable, must also satisfy criteria 1 and 2;
• whose country of residence has uninterruptedly been his country of birth for the past ten years;
• who speaks fluently at least one of the country's official languages;
• who is at least 18 years old and has an educational level matching at least that of the national compulsory education;
• who, if capable of working, has a stable job capable of supporting the candidate;
• who is not guilty or suspected or has a history of violent crime, domestic abuse, sex crime, financial crime, identity theft, illegal entry or illegal presence, domestic or foreign terror crime, war crime or crime against humanity, or other crime more severe than a misdemeanor;
• who has not served and is not serving time in prison;
• who has no history of participating in a criminal gang, criminal family, or living in a parallel society;
• who has not attended or participated in any session or sermon performed by a person who is a foreign cultural leader at the time of said session or sermon.

• For the purpose of criteria 2, a person's present ancestor is an ancestor who was alive on the day of the person's birth or later.
• For the purpose of criteria 11, a foreign cultural leader is a non-citizen who leads or preaches to a subset of a cultural group, or a citizen designated as such by a majority vote in the legislature with the minimum requirement that said citizen leads or preaches to a subset of a cultural group that primarily consists of non-citizens.
• If a naturalized citizenship is acquired through fraudulent satisfaction of requirements, or if the acquisition of the naturalized citizenship is dependent on information that later turn out to be false, then the naturalized citizenship should be revocable.

This requires on average about 4-10 generations. Now the only problematic area is jus sanguinis where only one parent is a citizen. Jus soli should be abolished.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 09:55:40 am

It does nothing to stop radicalization, which seems to be what you wanted to get at.

People are easy to lead astray, whether they’re citizens or not, whether they follow a religion or not, whether they can trace back their lineage through generations of natives or not. Tougher immigration law won’t stop that.

France, specifically, also already has pretty tough naturalization laws. They need to be an adult, have had habitual resident in France for 5 years, primary income has to be from France, basically be integrated into French society including fluent french, no criminal convictions of more than 6 months, and of good character.

Children born in France to foreign parents don’t automatically get to be French either. They need to wait until they’re 18 (so long as they’ve lived in France for 5 years since they turned 11) wait until they’re 16 (so long as they’ve lived in France since they were 11) wait until they’re 13 and have their parents apply, in which case they need to have lived in France since they were 8. They also need to live in France when they apply for it.

If we follow the example of the UK government, you can strip someone of their citizenship even in cases in which they are merely eligible to apply for citizenship in another country, even if they have never lived, worked, or visited said country, as in the case of Shemima Begum. She is technically a Bangladeshi citizen, at least ‘til she turns 21, unless she tries to retain it.

Anyway, tl;dr it’s not an immigration problem, and being radicalized isn’t limited to foreigners.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2020, 10:12:54 am

It most certainly is a migration problem. Whether the consequences become evident one or two generations down the line they still stem from migration. Willingly refusing to see issues in a long-term perspective just make you, well, short sighted.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 29, 2020, 10:17:45 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 09:55:40 am

-snip-

The issue I see is a human rights issue: we can't make people stateless and we can't deport our own citizens. Thus radicalized citizens in general need to be dealt with in another way. We can, however, limit the number of radicalized citizens by controlling the acquisition of citizenship.

Radicalized non-citizens are much easier to deal with: deportation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 10:31:17 am

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 10:12:54 am

It most certainly is a migration problem. Whether the consequences become evident one or two generations down the line they still stem from migration. Willingly refusing to see issues in a long-term perspective just make you, well, short sighted.

That and the former ISIS bandits coming home to roost and stoke up tensions. Imo nothing's going to be done and we're just going to keep having market attacks, stabbings and bombings until our current childless politicians pass away in old age and islamist politicians start gaining power throughout Europe in the next 40 years

*EDIT
Former PM of Malaysia Mahathir Mohamad is rustling jimmies by saying Muslims have a right to punish the French and kill millions of French in response to colonialism, calling most of the West Christians in name only who are pushing their morals on the world (https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2020/10/29/muslims-have-right-to-punish-french-for-past-crimes-dr-mahathir-says-amid-v/1917572)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 29, 2020, 10:41:35 am

Quote

Anyway, tl;dr it’s not an immigration problem

Let's look at terrorist attacks in France from 2015, which I thought would limit the number of cases I'd need to look at but apparently not so much.

7th January 2015. Al-Qaeda in Paris.
9th January 2015. Amedy Coulibaly, a 'Malian-French' man, in Paris.
26th June 2015. Yassine Salhiin, son of a Moroccan and Algerian, in Saint-Quentin-Fallavier.
21st August 2015. Ayoub El Kahzani, Moroccan, in Oignies.
13th November 2015. Islamic State in Paris.

And then a whole raft of IS attacks perpetrated by Algerians, Chechnyans, Moroccans and one fellow whose background I can't find, but who was born in Paris to immigrant parents.

24th May 2019. Chérif Chekatt, an Algerian student, in Lyons.
3rd October 2019. Mickaël Harpon, a Martinique police-worker, in Paris.
3rd January 2020. Nathan Chiasson, an Islamist (presumably French?) with psychiatric issues, in Paris.
4th April 2020. Abdallah Ahmed-Osman, a Sudanese asylum-seeker in Romans-sur-Isère.
27th April 2020. Couldn't find name (?) but in support of Palestine and IS, in Paris.
25th September 2020. No name, but from Pakistan, in Paris.
16th October 2020. Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov, Russian Islamist, in Paris.
Today. No names yet. Islamist.

Quote

it’s not an immigration problem

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 10:44:56 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 29, 2020, 10:41:35 am

Today. No names yet. Islamist.

Just you watch, it's gonna be a Jacques Moreau this time

Btw some news you might've already seen, Corbyn's been kicked outta labour for responding critically to the labour internal antisemitism inquiry (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 29, 2020, 10:53:07 am

Indeed.

I hope for a Corbyn-ution, but alas I fear it's unlikely. For any such uprising will be smote down with the battle clarion 'ur an anti-semite'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

Since "sealing borders" remains, as ever, a right-wing fantasy rather than a real policy, it is not worth considering. It is laughable to believe that any country on the Mediterranean could prevent people from entering it. Lest you forget that one time a dead toddler face-down on a beach was on the front page of every news website...

And regardless, as said already, the reality of geopolitics makes neat little ideas like that impossible. The US could never have avoided giving visas to the 9/11 perpetrators so long as it insisted upon a relationship with our good friends in Saudi Arabia. Regulation and public opinion would just erode when not being looked at, well-paid in petrodollars. The same principle is true here - how many nations could France cut off? All of Francophone Africa? Russia too? The EU nations? You might as well Frexit at that point, and we see how well that would go.

France being France, I might recommend they follow their own history and declare state ownership of all religious buildings and ban all forms of religious schooling. Now there's a spicy meatball.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 10:44:56 am

Btw some news you might've already seen, Corbyn's been kicked outta labour for responding critically to the labour internal antisemitism inquiry (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425)

And so the words of prophecy come true at last, in all their horror.

Uckland did not deserve a leader such as Jezza, glorious in his path, beautiful and terrible as the dawn. No, for you it is the brand of the Torygods that shall mark your fate, eternally in austerity, ever-old but never dead. Gammonworld Now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on October 29, 2020, 11:59:02 am

Maybe putting immigrants in a precarious situation is not the best solution; stress is a great contributor to most crimes, including of course terror crimes. I don't keep perfect track of what's happening in France (which is a shame, as I have French relatives), but since the refugee wave of 2015 Sweden has had a dozen or so arsons of temporary homes for immigrants, and I have a hard time thinking the state in which Le Pen garnered 34% the last presidential election has a general population much kinder to immigrants. I'd also like to remind that (and MSH did this already, kind of) immigrants are people, with human rights and needs. Making life harder for many for the crimes of a few borders on wanton cruelty, collective punishment if you will.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 10:31:17 am

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 10:12:54 am

It most certainly is a migration problem. Whether the consequences become evident one or two generations down the line they still stem from migration. Willingly refusing to see issues in a long-term perspective just make you, well, short sighted.

That and the former ISIS bandits coming home to roost and stoke up tensions. Imo nothing's going to be done and we're just going to keep having market attacks, stabbings and bombings until our current childless politicians pass away in old age and islamist politicians start gaining power throughout Europe in the next 40 years.

I do believe democracies do not work by relying on past politicians having had children, or that they hold their offices for life. Are you okay, LW?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2020, 12:15:52 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

Since "sealing borders" remains, as ever, a right-wing fantasy rather than a real policy, it is not worth considering.

As is "open borders" and "no borders" stances.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 29, 2020, 12:20:05 pm

The important thing to realise is that immigration is a huge factor in these attacks.

The key issue having been determined, policies managing immigration can be considered. Appropriate policies.

None of this happens if people are scared saying "yea, immigration is an issue" will result in their summary exile from progressive society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 29, 2020, 12:52:16 pm

Burn the Witch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 01:48:12 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

Since "sealing borders" remains, as ever, a right-wing fantasy rather than a real policy, it is not worth considering. It is laughable to believe that any country on the Mediterranean could prevent people from entering it. Lest you forget that one time a dead toddler face-down on a beach was on the front page of every news website...

I doubt it, reason being no one's trying it, whereas plenty of European countries support an open door policy or are like Greece, just an open door by default. The RN for example stopped patrolling because human traffickers kept contacting them directly over radio, which meant that some European politicians were giving emergency contacts out in a place where traffickers could find em. Couple that with NGOs assisting in the transport of migrants & the deletion of countries like Libya, the deletion of borders within the Schengen area and the general refusal of most Western European politicians to even consider the concept of a border - it seems rather curious to point to the policy as proof that the policy is the only way. It is also a bit too hyperbolic to suggest anyone is proposing a hermetic seal of borders; even countries like Hungary or even the UK still have people coming in by boat, plane, car or truck, but the point is people come in through channels where security can vet them - as opposed to simply coming in without any concern for safety.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

And regardless, as said already, the reality of geopolitics makes neat little ideas like that impossible. The US could never have avoided giving visas to the 9/11 perpetrators so long as it insisted upon a relationship with our good friends in Saudi Arabia.

Change your politics then; Kissinger was wrong, you can't bomb people into agreement

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

Regulation and public opinion would just erode when not being looked at, well-paid in petrodollars. The same principle is true here - how many nations could France cut off? All of Francophone Africa? Russia too? The EU nations? You might as well Frexit at that point, and we see how well that would go.

A border =/= A blockade

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

France being France, I might recommend they follow their own history and declare state ownership of all religious buildings and ban all forms of religious schooling. Now there's a spicy meatball.

Considering how cartoons are enough to warrant political assassination I do wonder what the result of this would be. I suppose the terrible thing about these attacks is that a teacher was singled out for murder over a lesson in secular values, then more people were murdered when the President condemned the murderer's motive. Rather depressing innit

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 10:58:02 am

And so the words of prophecy come true at last, in all their horror.

Uckland did not deserve a leader such as Jezza, glorious in his path, beautiful and terrible as the dawn. No, for you it is the brand of the Torygods that shall mark your fate, eternally in austerity, ever-old but never dead. Gammonworld Now.

Corbyn's not necessarily dead in the water, as he's still fighting the decision to suspend him. Not saying a sequel's likely but he may survive the ides of covid

Quote from: voliol on October 29, 2020, 11:59:02 am

Maybe putting immigrants in a precarious situation is not the best solution; stress is a great contributor to most crimes, including of course terror crimes. I don't keep perfect track of what's happening in France (which is a shame, as I have French relatives), but since the refugee wave of 2015 Sweden has had a dozen or so arsons of temporary homes for immigrants, and I have a hard time thinking the state in which Le Pen garnered 34% the last presidential election has a general population much kinder to immigrants. I'd also like to remind that (and MSH did this already, kind of) immigrants are people, with human rights and needs. Making life harder for many for the crimes of a few borders on wanton cruelty, collective punishment if you will.

I don't know about France, but in the UK recent immigrants tend to be highly averse to radicalisation, especially if they live in a poor and violent neighbourhood, and were disatisfied with their living conditions. Whereas our most violent and radicalised young'uns, tend to be from families that are well-educated, wealthier than most of the country, born in the country and well-integrated with good jobs and social networks - but prone to depression and viewed society very critically. Presumably you only get to engage in political violence once all of your needs are met (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/radicalised-muslims-uk-more-likely-be-well-heeled-9754062.html) and you can begin pondering what is really important in life. I'm reminded of one of our students who recruited people with the message that:

"What prevents you from obtaining martyrdom and the pleasure of your Lord? Look around you while you sit in comfort and ask yourself, is this how you want to die?"
Literally calling on people to abandon material comfort in exchange for a higher purpose. You can find out more interesting stuff from this profiles page (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985) which even provides breakdowns on roles & origins, including who was born into Islam or who converted.

Restricting the flow of people who wish to adjust the attitudes of your country with rather enthusiastic methods, may not do much to address why a significant proportion of your country wishes to already engage in enthusiastic attitude adjustment. Yet doing nothing and allowing more hostile persons in seems like a silly idea in the face of continued terror attacks. Regarding existing migrant communities and how continued terror attacks are just a result of Europeans not being friendly enough like Sweden, IDK Sweden didn't have to record bombings before they encouraged migration to their nation. Social security and a good neighbourhood only goes so far to convincing someone they really ought not to kill you

Quote from: voliol on October 29, 2020, 11:59:02 am

I do believe democracies do not work by relying on past politicians having had children, or that they hold their offices for life. Are you okay, LW?

European political candidates, like their American counterparts, are old and childless, not representative of the demographics of their constituencies or the demographic trends of the future. Whether they remain in office for aeons or swap for another elder makes no difference. The childless adj. is just to sarcastically remark on the phenomenon of most European national leaders being childless, a succint symbol of how most European policy lives in the now and expects the future to be someone else's problem.

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 29, 2020, 12:20:05 pm

The important thing to realise is that immigration is a huge factor in these attacks.
The key issue having been determined, policies managing immigration can be considered. Appropriate policies.
None of this happens if people are scared saying "yea, immigration is an issue" will result in their summary exile from progressive society.

A huge factor, where returning foreign fighters or newly arrived fighters are concerned. Yet the far greater concern is how do you convince a young man or young woman, from a wealthy or poor family, from a born-Muslim or convert life, from educated or uneducated - to choose values which are at a minimum tolerant of other faiths and observant of civil law, instead of listening to the cleric who says everyone else is an enemy and death is no sin

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 29, 2020, 12:52:16 pm

Burn the Witch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k)

good taste

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 29, 2020, 12:20:05 pm

The important thing to realise is that immigration is a huge factor in these attacks.

The key issue having been determined, policies managing immigration can be considered. Appropriate policies.

None of this happens if people are scared saying "yea, immigration is an issue" will result in their summary exile from progressive society.

Yes, yes, you're a very hard man making hard decisions about bombing refugees that the soft-bellied liberals don't understand. However, the problem is actually religion, so bombing refugees will not stop anything. This can be demonstrated by how many people have been bombed already, and yet attacks continue.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 01:48:12 pm

I doubt it, reason being no one's trying it, whereas plenty of European countries support an open door policy or are like Greece, just an open door by default. The RN for example stopped patrolling because human traffickers kept contacting them directly over radio, which meant that some European politicians were giving emergency contacts out in a place where traffickers could find em. Couple that with NGOs assisting in the transport of migrants & the deletion of countries like Libya, the deletion of borders within the Schengen area and the general refusal of most Western European politicians to even consider the concept of a border - it seems rather curious to point to the policy as proof that the policy is the only way. It is also a bit too hyperbolic to suggest anyone is proposing a hermetic seal of borders; even countries like Hungary or even the UK still have people coming in by boat, plane, car or truck, but the point is people come in through channels where security can vet them - as opposed to simply coming in without any concern for safety.

It's not so much the policy proving itself as reality proving policy. There are only two border policies: Records or No Records. There used to be a third policy called Being An Island but that's gone the way of the dodo in the modern world, unless you're literally in the abyss of the open Pacific. Countries that go in for all this emotive bullshit about Keeping Them Out or even Saving The Refugees are dancing around the reality that they don't actually have control over borders.

Most secure border in the world is the Korean DMZ. There's not even a procedure for passing it, only for diplomatic meetings in it. They shoot everyone who tries. It's full of mines, and not the nice mines that kill you but the atrocity mines that blow your heel off and leave you alive. And people jump that border all the time, as well as the northern border with China. It's not all North Koreans fleeing either, plenty of Chinese smugglers go in too.

Nobody in the "West" has the chutzpah to reach this level of violence on their domestic borders. So it's just not going to happen, simple as that. Any policy that would be accepted would be subverted in short order. Which means there's no point in even wasting words on it since it poisons politicians to admit they don't have this kind of control, and the discussion should be all about policies which incentivize compliance with record-keeping entry.

Least secure border in the world is US-Mexico. Maybe there's competition for least secure, but more people cross that one than the rest. It's a farce. You think you'll manage a border harsher than Trump in a democratic system? And while the right continues to push on trying to get people to acknowledge "the dirty fact" that they think they're correct on but doesn't even recognize the reality of border policies, the situation just continues as it has. It's not even about achieving an actual material goal, it's just about getting people to say immigrants are bad. Getting caught up in "immigrants good/immigrants bad" discussions paralyzed the US for around 50 years now, ultimately ending with deciding immigrants were good. Real immigration management is pretty much exactly where it started but we have computer databases and secret police now. I don't recommend going down that kind of path.

Quote

Change your politics then; Kissinger was wrong, you can't bomb people into agreement

Of course, one global ecosocialist revolution coming right up.

Quote

A border =/= A blockade

Might as well be for this purpose. One thing Kissinger was right about is that you can't get something for nothing in geopolitics. On top of humans flowing like intelligent water and thus subverting the barriers put in front of us, a nation is not going to accept otherwise normal relations with a "and your people aren't allowed to ever visit us, filth" tacked on the end. Those days are over. One of the two will give - you will lose your access to the precious resource deposit mined by orphans for pennies on the yuan or you'll change your visa policy. Then someone comes over on that visa and decides they're the sword of God, we have this argument about practical policymaking, and the cycle starts anew. Then the ecocide kills everyone.

Quote

Considering how cartoons are enough to warrant political assassination I do wonder what the result of this would be. I suppose the terrible thing about these attacks is that a teacher was singled out for murder over a lesson in secular values, then more people were murdered when the President condemned the murderer's motive. Rather depressing innit

France doesn't fuck around when it comes to religion. Once you've gone and oppressed your own majority religion a couple times it's really burned into the collective unconsciousness. As long as Le Pen stays out I expect the whole thing to end in something like banning religious schools, that's been proposed before by some French politicians I think.

Quote

Corbyn's not necessarily dead in the water, as he's still fighting the decision to suspend him. Not saying a sequel's likely but he may survive the ides of covid

Liberalism is, of course, inherently doomed to collapse. But I suspect that it shall only end with Corbyn alone amongst the ash of what once was Britain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 29, 2020, 02:44:32 pm

I've come to the conclusion that it's neither immigration nor religion. Its socioeconomical. If you look to a pattern in common between islamic stabber-terrorists and mosque-shooters: we're looking at disenfranchised male millennials more often than not of lower economic strata and more often than not with lower education levels.   
I think a number of people with these characteristics just break under the pressure of a system that is offering them scant opportunities. Depending on their particular background some will become religious integrists. Others far right activists. Others will mannifest it in other ways, some unpleasant, some not.
But the gist of the thing is that, to me, it's pretty clear that we're talking about a socioeconomical problem, rather than a religious or cultural one

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 03:27:58 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 29, 2020, 02:44:32 pm

I've come to the conclusion that it's neither immigration nor religion. Its socioeconomical. If you look to a pattern in common between islamic stabber-terrorists and mosque-shooters: we're looking at disenfranchised male millennials more often than not of lower economic strata and more often than not with lower education levels.

Radicalised Muslims in UK more likely to be born in Britain, rich and depressed (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/radicalised-muslims-uk-more-likely-be-well-heeled-9754062.html)

New research from Queen Mary University of London has found youth, wealth, and being in full-time education to be risk factors associated with violent radicalisation. Contrary to popular views – religious practice, health and social inequalities, discrimination, and political engagement showed no links. (https://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2014/smd/youth-wealth-and-education-found-to-be-risk-factors-for-violent-radicalisation.html)

The study found that recent immigrants in poor and violent neighbourhoods tend to be most averse to radicalisation, whereas those committed to radicalisation were from wealthy families, well-educated and well-integrated 3rd gen or more.

Quote

sympathy levels increased among those under 20, those in full time education rather than employment, those born in the UK, and high earners (£75,000 per year or more).
Interestingly, migrants and those speaking a language other than English at home, and those who reported having poor physical health, were all less likely to show sympathies for terrorist acts. In addition, those who reported suffering from anxiety and depression were no more likely to display sympathies, provoking some new research questions about the relationship between radicalisation and mental health.

Mahathir Mohamad is right, in that the West has become so divorced from the concept of belief that it no longer has the capacity for understanding those who do. The notion that a young person would succeed materially in the West yet see very little value in the material success must seem strange to those for whom all violence is a result of socioeconomic relations, and the concept of a person with their own ambitions and convictions sufficient to murder or launch a suicide attack is incomprehensible. This is why even a total hermetic blockade, or some bureaucratic filtration of actively radicalised persons, would fail to address why the West cannot provide a platform of belief appealing to those who should be her success stories: Well integrated, well-off and well-educated - yet determined to harm their neighbour for having different beliefs, or a lack thereof.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Yes, yes, you're a very hard man making hard decisions about bombing refugees that the soft-bellied liberals don't understand. However, the problem is actually religion, so bombing refugees will not stop anything. This can be demonstrated by how many people have been bombed already, and yet attacks continue.

If we stopped bombing other countries, there would be much less refugees from aforementioned bombs. Not saying you're arguing that, as I'm sure you already agree, just pointing out that Th4DwArfY1 is referencing how no matter how many times people bent on killing innocents for being different walk into Europe, no matter how many people believe closing the open door policy isn't a controversial opinion, our glorious overlords will nevertheless refuse to accept any link between heterogeneous religious communities and religious violence, unless the topic of news is Ireland and other post-colonial borders.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

It's not so much the policy proving itself as reality proving policy. There are only two border policies: Records or No Records. There used to be a third policy called Being An Island but that's gone the way of the dodo in the modern world, unless you're literally in the abyss of the open Pacific. Countries that go in for all this emotive bullshit about Keeping Them Out or even Saving The Refugees are dancing around the reality that they don't actually have control over borders.

Countries can just ignore the Schengen Area agreement like the Visegrad bois and resume policing of their borders. The EU would throw a hissyfit as usual but who cares

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Nobody in the "West" has the chutzpah to reach this level of violence on their domestic borders. So it's just not going to happen, simple as that. Any policy that would be accepted would be subverted in short order. Which means there's no point in even wasting words on it since it poisons politicians to admit they don't have this kind of control, and the discussion should be all about policies which incentivize compliance with record-keeping entry.

That's rather absurd, you can accomplish with naval patrols, a fence, land patrols and border checkpoints a satisfactory border control without blowing the legs off every pedestrian with a warzone minefield. People will still find ways through; yet the simple act of raising the difficulty of entry from "you can walk in" to "papers please" means the vast majority will have the joys of introducing themselves to bureaucracy or bust. Many of the EU countries have already shown they are capable of enforcing border control to the majority of transit goers due to the COVID-19 restrictions should they so choose to. Meanwhile countries that do enforce borders show that whether landlocked or seaborne, such as the UK or Hungary, an enforced border means you have a few hundred to a few thousand enter your country illegally instead of the millions countries like Germany and Sweden faced. Furthermore, as the UK shows, on a year to year basis most of the 2,000 annual channel crossers get caught, processed and granted asylum status, having determined their authenticity or not (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50813246).
I believe border control, for the reasons I've stated above, will not address the fundamental issue of why Christmas markets keep turning into slaughterhouses. Yet viewed independently of terrorism or cultural cohabitation, a policed borders confers many advantages over an open border.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Least secure border in the world is US-Mexico. Maybe there's competition for least secure, but more people cross that one than the rest. It's a farce. You think you'll manage a border harsher than Trump in a democratic system?

Harshness is not a necessary requirement to policing, European police do not tend to carry guns.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

And while the right continues to push on trying to get people to acknowledge "the dirty fact" that they think they're correct on but doesn't even recognize the reality of border policies, the situation just continues as it has. It's not even about achieving an actual material goal, it's just about getting people to say immigrants are bad. Getting caught up in "immigrants good/immigrants bad" discussions paralyzed the US for around 50 years now, ultimately ending with deciding immigrants were good. Real immigration management is pretty much exactly where it started but we have computer databases and secret police now. I don't recommend going down that kind of path.

That's good, because I am not seeking to create a dichotomy between native born and immigrant, especially since I have repeatedly posted evidence that it is the well-integrated scions of Muslim migrants who pose more trouble than Muslim migrants.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Of course, one global ecosocialist revolution coming right up.

I'll settle for everyone gaining a collective level of reason. No one gets murdered for their beliefs, we purge our elite strata of pedophiles, slavers and traffickers, we stop pointless wars around the world, we stop revolving all of our society around the acquisition of meaningless status and wealth. The world would improve drastically for people, plants and animals

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Quote

A border =/= A blockade

Might as well be for this purpose. One thing Kissinger was right about is that you can't get something for nothing in geopolitics. On top of humans flowing like intelligent water and thus subverting the barriers put in front of us, a nation is not going to accept otherwise normal relations with a "and your people aren't allowed to ever visit us, filth" tacked on the end. Those days are over. One of the two will give - you will lose your access to the precious resource deposit mined by orphans for pennies on the yuan or you'll change your visa policy. Then someone comes over on that visa and decides they're the sword of God, we have this argument about practical policymaking, and the cycle starts anew. Then the ecocide kills everyone.

It is not helpful to imagine only extremes are possible, when working alternatives already exist. I don't want my country to export financial services in exchange for importing militants. I feel there is an equitable trade that can occur; the UK ceases support for terrorist funding states like Saudi Arabia, and in return the UK military-industrial complex loses some money. Win win

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

France doesn't fuck around when it comes to religion. Once you've gone and oppressed your own majority religion a couple times it's really burned into the collective unconsciousness. As long as Le Pen stays out I expect the whole thing to end in something like banning religious schools, that's been proposed before by some French politicians I think.

It is easier for a liberal nation to oppress its own religion than to oppress another's religion, a consequence of post-colonial remorse, trauma and revanchism.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on October 29, 2020, 02:28:14 pm

Quote

Corbyn's not necessarily dead in the water, as he's still fighting the decision to suspend him. Not saying a sequel's likely but he may survive the ides of covid

Liberalism is, of course, inherently doomed to collapse. But I suspect that it shall only end with Corbyn alone amongst the ash of what once was Britain.

Upon a field of ashen Greggs and hollow Spoons, the ruined wreckage of the British Isles that devilish druids from Norf FC successfully plane-shifted into the Sun lies silent but for the trembling steps of the wandering Jezza. Betrayed by his own clan, his back adorned with a thousand swords, he wanders - his rose red blood dripping with each step. He has wandered the land for so long, a small hammer held gently in a weak and frail arm, so emaciated by the entropy of time that his veins have turned black and his skin turned a vitruvian white.
Beneath the shadow of a tall tower, a testament to the hubris of the Stock Mages and Exchange Warlocks, the bones and skulls of the indentured souls labour eternally for a competitive London living wage. Part of the tower, part of the company.
Jezza raises his hammer meekly, igniting what remains of his humanity. The skies darken and the screams of the damned turn silent as the Dark Lord steps down from his throne of lies.
"FOOOL. YOU SHOULD HAVE ACCEPTED YOUR DEATH, OUR LORD IS MONEY MADE MANIFEST, NO ONE CAN DEFEAT HIM," bellowed Nick Clegg the Betrayer, ensorceled with Z'Uck Er'Berg's energy. The Dark Lord silenced the Betrayer with a flick of his commanding hand.
"I will deal with this pitiful relic," said Tony Blair, raising his maul.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 03:50:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 10:12:54 am

It most certainly is a migration problem. Whether the consequences become evident one or two generations down the line they still stem from migration. Willingly refusing to see issues in a long-term perspective just make you, well, short sighted.

My optometrist has been wrong all these years!

Radical Islam isn’t an immigration issue ‘cause you can’t stop an idea at the border, nor can you pull it out of someone’s head space. Further, not all Muslims are susceptible to violent radicalization, just as all violent radicals aren’t Muslim (for some reason auto-correct wants that to be in all caps).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2020, 04:28:48 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 29, 2020, 02:44:32 pm

I've come to the conclusion that it's neither immigration nor religion. Its socioeconomical. If you look to a pattern in common between islamic stabber-terrorists and mosque-shooters: we're looking at disenfranchised male millennials more often than not of lower economic strata and more often than not with lower education levels.   
I think a number of people with these characteristics just break under the pressure of a system that is offering them scant opportunities. Depending on their particular background some will become religious integrists. Others far right activists. Others will mannifest it in other ways, some unpleasant, some not.
But the gist of the thing is that, to me, it's pretty clear that we're talking about a socioeconomical problem, rather than a religious or cultural one

The question one might ask oneself then is: Why do Sweden have the highest number of ISIS joinees per capita of Europe?

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 03:50:06 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 10:12:54 am

It most certainly is a migration problem. Whether the consequences become evident one or two generations down the line they still stem from migration. Willingly refusing to see issues in a long-term perspective just make you, well, short sighted.

My optometrist has been wrong all these years!

Radical Islam isn’t an immigration issue ‘cause you can’t stop an idea at the border, nor can you pull it out of someone’s head space.

Muslims tend to have migrated to Europe within 1-3 generations, hector.

Quote

Further, not all Muslims are susceptible to violent radicalization, just as all violent radicals aren’t Muslim (for some reason auto-correct wants that to be in all caps).

I also heard that the sky is blue and bears defecate in woods.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 29, 2020, 04:32:01 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 04:28:48 pm

The question one might ask oneself then is: Why do Sweden have the highest number of ISIS joinees per capita of Europe?

Too much eurovision has that effect on the soul

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 04:28:48 pm

Muslims tend to have migrated to Europe within 1-3 generations, hector.

That and letting in active militants & recruiters is a silly idea

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 pm

Nobody likes a smartass, scriver.

If you already have 3 generations worth of immigration, how does stronger border control now prevent the spectre of radicalization from rearing it’s ugly head?

If you’d like me to expand on what I said, I think it’s not an immigration issue because not all immigrants are Muslim, which means you have to ask immigrants their religion, which is a protected status in Europe, so you probably wouldn’t get away with directly asking about it anyway.

Pointless rambing: At what point do you determine someone is a religious zealot enough to deny them entry to your country? Sure if you know someone is engaging in militancy and they show up at your border, send them away or better yet arrest them, but what about the average Muslim showing up to come in? You going to say that you’re so worried in 20 years or 40 years time when their kids or grandkids grow up they might be more likely to become a radical that they can’t come in? /Pointless rambling

Or do you just want to make more snarky comments and not engage me in discussion and I’d be better served coming up with my own snarky comments like “well you’ve got three generations of Muslims so when do you plan on developing your 4th dimensional border control m8?” :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 29, 2020, 05:43:42 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 04:28:48 pm

The question one might ask oneself then is: Why do Sweden have the highest number of ISIS joinees per capita of Europe?

Surströmming

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Nobody likes being condescendingly lectured with self-obviousities either, hector.

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 pm

Nobody likes a smartass, scriver.

If you already have 3 generations worth of immigration, how does stronger border control now prevent the spectre of radicalization from rearing it’s ugly head?

Refusing to not make more mistakes because mistakes have already been made and there's already radical rightwing terrorists here now so there's no point in not making the problem with rightwing terrorists grow larger over time is a very strange way of thinking and I don't think it would be responsible for any government to act according to it.

If we for the sake of the argument accept migration as the root cause then the reasonable course of action is to diminish that inflow so that countries can deradicalise the radicals who have already established themselves in the country without additional radicals constantly flowing in and making the groups even larger.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you’d like me to expand on what I said, I think it’s not an immigration issue because not all immigrants are Muslim, which means you have to ask immigrants their religion, which is a protected status in Europe, so you probably wouldn’t get away with directly asking about it anyway.

Pointless rambing: At what point do you determine someone is a religious zealot enough to deny them entry to your country? Sure if you know someone is engaging in militancy and they show up at your border, send them away or better yet arrest them, but what about the average Muslim showing up to come in? You going to say that you’re so worried in 20 years or 40 years time when their kids or grandkids grow up they might be more likely to become a radical that they can’t come in? /Pointless rambling

It's a migration issue because it roots itself from migration. Pretending it isn't is just posturing; likely for the ideological sake of refusing to acknowledge that migration has bad sides and not just good.

As for the latter part, I don't see any problems at all with a lowered migration rate resulting in average Muslims not getting in if does mean a lowered rate of rightwing terrorists in the future. We as people in a community must consider the effects of our actions upon our communities even in the long term. It's not really that unlike our environmental situation right now, except your the boomer who is refusing to change because the consequences of not changing will lay upon future shoulders rather than their own.

Quote from: martinuzz on October 29, 2020, 05:43:42 pm

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 04:28:48 pm

The question one might ask oneself then is: Why do Sweden have the highest number of ISIS joinees per capita of Europe?

Surströmming

Very probable, must be taken into account

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: McTraveller on October 29, 2020, 07:16:58 pm

Here's what I can't quite figure out: at what size of a community does requiring "borders" even come into being in the first place?

Consider that people can move into or out of my neighborhood without any kind of special checks; the only requirement is really if you can get the mortgage cleared.

Consider in the US that you can move from state to state basically with no bureaucracy either; I mean yeah you may need to change your drivers license, but the rest is just change of address forms which is no different than you'd do for moving across town.

So what is it specifically that suddenly makes moving from nation to nation such a big deal?  You can't even say it's taxes, because moving from state to state already changes tax jurisdiction. So it's not taxes per se that causes it.

So just what is it about a "national" border that makes moving around so different than just moving across a town?  Is this even a reasonable distinction in the first place?  Put another way - why don't we have such restrictions on moving from town to town (except in the case where "the next town over" might be across that political border)?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 29, 2020, 11:50:47 pm

Lots of putting the cart before the horse here.  (Along with some more astute comments.)

Quote

The fact is that the role of religion in radicalisation (and deradicalisation) is grossly overestimated. There is actually no empirical evidence to support the claim that religion (any religion) and ideology are the primary motivators of violent extremism.  [...]

Factors such as anger at injustice, moral superiority, a sense of identity and purpose, the promise of adventure, and becoming a hero have all been implicated in case studies of radicalisation. Religion and ideology serve as vehicles for an “us versus them” mentality and as the justification for violence against those who represent “the enemy”, but they are not the drivers of radicalisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated)

The rise of radicalisation over the last couple of decades has largely been driven by the response to 9/11 and the global currents triggered by the Iraq invasion.*  Trump has not helped.  (probably more appropriate to ameripol discussion but see https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157))

Fundamentally it is a social problem not a religious problem (thanks LW).  Islam has been latched onto by many who are disgruntled by the world we find ourselves living in.  In other circumstances they be Proud Bois.

Border controls are a furphy here, regardless of their other (ir)relevancies. 


* There's a longer history where invasions would be more appropriate but didn't want to detour here too much.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 12:22:43 am

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Nobody likes being condescendingly lectured with self-obviousities either, hector.

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 pm

Nobody likes a smartass, scriver.

If you already have 3 generations worth of immigration, how does stronger border control now prevent the spectre of radicalization from rearing it’s ugly head?

Refusing to not make more mistakes because mistakes have already been made and there's already radical rightwing terrorists here now so there's no point in not making the problem with rightwing terrorists grow larger over time is a very strange way of thinking and I don't think it would be responsible for any government to act according to it.

If we for the sake of the argument accept migration as the root cause then the reasonable course of action is to diminish that inflow so that countries can deradicalise the radicals who have already established themselves in the country without additional radicals constantly flowing in and making the groups even larger.

Why not both at the same time? While you’re deradicalising you learn the process of radicalization and find common themes in populations prone to extremism that can be targeted to reduce the incidence, similar to the research LW posted.

Migration during this means you know who is susceptible to it, what signs to look out for, and can guide the migrants toward resources that will prevent it from happening.

Teaching critical thinking in schools (while being a good idea in general for everyone) will also provide folk with the tools necessary to question potentially radicalizing material, reducing incidence further. Heck, just classes on the signs of radicalisation would be useful, and isn’t limited to the Islamic world either.

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you’d like me to expand on what I said, I think it’s not an immigration issue because not all immigrants are Muslim, which means you have to ask immigrants their religion, which is a protected status in Europe, so you probably wouldn’t get away with directly asking about it anyway.

Pointless rambing: At what point do you determine someone is a religious zealot enough to deny them entry to your country? Sure if you know someone is engaging in militancy and they show up at your border, send them away or better yet arrest them, but what about the average Muslim showing up to come in? You going to say that you’re so worried in 20 years or 40 years time when their kids or grandkids grow up they might be more likely to become a radical that they can’t come in? /Pointless rambling

It's a migration issue because it roots itself from migration. Pretending it isn't is just posturing; likely for the ideological sake of refusing to acknowledge that migration has bad sides and not just good.

I suspect you and I are thinking of different things when we say migration, because when I say migration I mean people moving from one sovereign territory to another, whereas you seem to be focused on the Muslim world, which is why I said the allegedly self-obvious things you got snarky over.

Could you explain what you mean by it being an issue rooted in migration?

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

As for the latter part, I don't see any problems at all with a lowered migration rate resulting in average Muslims not getting in if does mean a lowered rate of rightwing terrorists in the future. We as people in a community must consider the effects of our actions upon our communities even in the long term. It's not really that unlike our environmental situation right now, except your the boomer who is refusing to change because the consequences of not changing will lay upon future shoulders rather than their own.

Your way is shifting the problem onto someone else, too. This is how you end up with immigrants being treated like cargo on a ship in the Med for weeks on end.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2020, 02:05:13 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 12:22:43 am

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Nobody likes being condescendingly lectured with self-obviousities either, hector.

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 pm

Nobody likes a smartass, scriver.

If you already have 3 generations worth of immigration, how does stronger border control now prevent the spectre of radicalization from rearing it’s ugly head?

Refusing to not make more mistakes because mistakes have already been made and there's already radical rightwing terrorists here now so there's no point in not making the problem with rightwing terrorists grow larger over time is a very strange way of thinking and I don't think it would be responsible for any government to act according to it.

If we for the sake of the argument accept migration as the root cause then the reasonable course of action is to diminish that inflow so that countries can deradicalise the radicals who have already established themselves in the country without additional radicals constantly flowing in and making the groups even larger.

Why not both at the same time? While you’re deradicalising you learn the process of radicalization and find common themes in populations prone to extremism that can be targeted to reduce the incidence, similar to the research LW posted.

I literally said why in the post you quoted.

Quote

Migration during this means you know who is susceptible to it, what signs to look out for, and can guide the migrants toward resources that will prevent it from happening.

Teaching critical thinking in schools (while being a good idea in general for everyone) will also provide folk with the tools necessary to question potentially radicalizing material, reducing incidence further. Heck, just classes on the signs of radicalisation would be useful, and isn’t limited to the Islamic world either.

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you’d like me to expand on what I said, I think it’s not an immigration issue because not all immigrants are Muslim, which means you have to ask immigrants their religion, which is a protected status in Europe, so you probably wouldn’t get away with directly asking about it anyway.

Pointless rambing: At what point do you determine someone is a religious zealot enough to deny them entry to your country? Sure if you know someone is engaging in militancy and they show up at your border, send them away or better yet arrest them, but what about the average Muslim showing up to come in? You going to say that you’re so worried in 20 years or 40 years time when their kids or grandkids grow up they might be more likely to become a radical that they can’t come in? /Pointless rambling

It's a migration issue because it roots itself from migration. Pretending it isn't is just posturing; likely for the ideological sake of refusing to acknowledge that migration has bad sides and not just good.

I suspect you and I are thinking of different things when we say migration, because when I say migration I mean people moving from one sovereign territory to another, whereas you seem to be focused on the Muslim world, which is why I said the allegedly self-obvious things you got snarky over.

No, we don't, your "sneaking suspicion" is just your own sense of self-superiority.

The reason only Muslim migrants are relevant to the discussion of islamist terrorism is because radical islamists are generally Muslims.

Quote

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

As for the latter part, I don't see any problems at all with a lowered migration rate resulting in average Muslims not getting in if does mean a lowered rate of rightwing terrorists in the future. We as people in a community must consider the effects of our actions upon our communities even in the long term. It's not really that unlike our environmental situation right now, except your the boomer who is refusing to change because the consequences of not changing will lay upon future shoulders rather than their own.

Your way is shifting the problem onto someone else, too. This is how you end up with immigrants being treated like cargo on a ship in the Med for weeks on end.

Taking responsibility for a problem is not shifting the problem onto others. And no, the current policies is how we ended up with migrants being treated like cargo on the Med.

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 29, 2020, 11:50:47 pm

Lots of putting the cart before the horse here.  (Along with some more astute comments.)

Quote

The fact is that the role of religion in radicalisation (and deradicalisation) is grossly overestimated. There is actually no empirical evidence to support the claim that religion (any religion) and ideology are the primary motivators of violent extremism.  [...]

Factors such as anger at injustice, moral superiority, a sense of identity and purpose, the promise of adventure, and becoming a hero have all been implicated in case studies of radicalisation. Religion and ideology serve as vehicles for an “us versus them” mentality and as the justification for violence against those who represent “the enemy”, but they are not the drivers of radicalisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated)

The rise of radicalisation over the last couple of decades has largely been driven by the response to 9/11 and the global currents triggered by the Iraq invasion.*  Trump has not helped.  (probably more appropriate to ameripol discussion but see https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157))

Fundamentally it is a social problem not a religious problem (thanks LW).  Islam has been latched onto by many who are disgruntled by the world we find ourselves living in.  In other circumstances they be Proud Bois.

Border controls are a furphy here, regardless of their other (ir)relevancies. 


* There's a longer history where invasions would be more appropriate but didn't want to detour here too much.

If bolded things are provided by a religion then religion is not just a "vessel" for radicalisation, it is the part of cause of radicalisation itself.

The "current" radicalisation is also not a thing that has it's roots in the last 20 years. It's a movement that's been going on since Salafism broke ground circa 140 years ago and it's been growing since then.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 30, 2020, 02:21:19 am

Quote from: scriver on October 30, 2020, 02:05:13 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 29, 2020, 11:50:47 pm

Lots of putting the cart before the horse here.  (Along with some more astute comments.)

Quote

The fact is that the role of religion in radicalisation (and deradicalisation) is grossly overestimated. There is actually no empirical evidence to support the claim that religion (any religion) and ideology are the primary motivators of violent extremism.  [...]

Factors such as anger at injustice, moral superiority, a sense of identity and purpose, the promise of adventure, and becoming a hero have all been implicated in case studies of radicalisation. Religion and ideology serve as vehicles for an “us versus them” mentality and as the justification for violence against those who represent “the enemy”, but they are not the drivers of radicalisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/14/the-role-of-islam-in-radicalisation-is-grossly-overestimated)

The rise of radicalisation over the last couple of decades has largely been driven by the response to 9/11 and the global currents triggered by the Iraq invasion.*  Trump has not helped.  (probably more appropriate to ameripol discussion but see https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157 (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157))

Fundamentally it is a social problem not a religious problem (thanks LW).  Islam has been latched onto by many who are disgruntled by the world we find ourselves living in.  In other circumstances they be Proud Bois.

Border controls are a furphy here, regardless of their other (ir)relevancies. 


* There's a longer history where invasions would be more appropriate but didn't want to detour here too much.

If bolded things are provided by a religion then religion is not just a "vessel" for radicalisation, it is the part of cause of radicalisation itself.

The "current" radicalisation is also not a thing that has it's roots in the last 20 years. It's a movement that's been going on since Salafism broke ground circa 140 years ago and it's been growing since then.

Over 1.8 billion Muslims beg to differ.

Edit: followed to source from wikipedia:

Quote

Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1 (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2020, 03:04:21 am

That not all religious people become extremists does not mean religion does not play a role for the ones who do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 10:11:26 am

Quote from: scriver on October 30, 2020, 02:05:13 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 12:22:43 am

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Nobody likes being condescendingly lectured with self-obviousities either, hector.

Quote from: hector13 on October 29, 2020, 05:20:39 pm

Nobody likes a smartass, scriver.

If you already have 3 generations worth of immigration, how does stronger border control now prevent the spectre of radicalization from rearing it’s ugly head?

Refusing to not make more mistakes because mistakes have already been made and there's already radical rightwing terrorists here now so there's no point in not making the problem with rightwing terrorists grow larger over time is a very strange way of thinking and I don't think it would be responsible for any government to act according to it.

If we for the sake of the argument accept migration as the root cause then the reasonable course of action is to diminish that inflow so that countries can deradicalise the radicals who have already established themselves in the country without additional radicals constantly flowing in and making the groups even larger.

Why not both at the same time? While you’re deradicalising you learn the process of radicalization and find common themes in populations prone to extremism that can be targeted to reduce the incidence, similar to the research LW posted.

I literally said why in the post you quoted.

It presupposes radicalization in immigrants, which could be rooted out while doing what you said in your post, and doesn’t tar a third of the world as potential terrorists who need to be kept away at all cost.

Quote from: scriver on October 30, 2020, 02:05:13 am

Quote

Migration during this means you know who is susceptible to it, what signs to look out for, and can guide the migrants toward resources that will prevent it from happening.

Teaching critical thinking in schools (while being a good idea in general for everyone) will also provide folk with the tools necessary to question potentially radicalizing material, reducing incidence further. Heck, just classes on the signs of radicalisation would be useful, and isn’t limited to the Islamic world either.

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you’d like me to expand on what I said, I think it’s not an immigration issue because not all immigrants are Muslim, which means you have to ask immigrants their religion, which is a protected status in Europe, so you probably wouldn’t get away with directly asking about it anyway.

Pointless rambing: At what point do you determine someone is a religious zealot enough to deny them entry to your country? Sure if you know someone is engaging in militancy and they show up at your border, send them away or better yet arrest them, but what about the average Muslim showing up to come in? You going to say that you’re so worried in 20 years or 40 years time when their kids or grandkids grow up they might be more likely to become a radical that they can’t come in? /Pointless rambling

It's a migration issue because it roots itself from migration. Pretending it isn't is just posturing; likely for the ideological sake of refusing to acknowledge that migration has bad sides and not just good.

I suspect you and I are thinking of different things when we say migration, because when I say migration I mean people moving from one sovereign territory to another, whereas you seem to be focused on the Muslim world, which is why I said the allegedly self-obvious things you got snarky over.

No, we don't, your "sneaking suspicion" is just your own sense of self-superiority.

The reason only Muslim migrants are relevant to the discussion of islamist terrorism is because radical islamists are generally Muslims.

If I felt superior I obviously wouldn’t need to engage you in this because I’d be right and you’d be wrong and understanding your position better wouldn’t change that, but that’s why I’m continuing this; I want to understand your position, despite the snarky snippets which I could really do without.

Let’s explore your idea then. You can start deradicalisation programs, but how do you identify those that need to go through them? How do you get them onto the program? What should happen to someone who doesn’t complete the program successfully? How does stopping Muslim migration while doing this help?

You said we should consider the long term effects, good and bad, of our decision making on our communities. What do you think are the long term effects of your idea, which I see as stopping specifically Muslim migration and profiling what’s left for deradicalisation, correct me if I’m wrong?

Quote from: scriver on October 30, 2020, 02:05:13 am

Quote

Quote from: scriver on October 29, 2020, 06:53:33 pm

As for the latter part, I don't see any problems at all with a lowered migration rate resulting in average Muslims not getting in if does mean a lowered rate of rightwing terrorists in the future. We as people in a community must consider the effects of our actions upon our communities even in the long term. It's not really that unlike our environmental situation right now, except your the boomer who is refusing to change because the consequences of not changing will lay upon future shoulders rather than their own.

Your way is shifting the problem onto someone else, too. This is how you end up with immigrants being treated like cargo on a ship in the Med for weeks on end.

Taking responsibility for a problem is not shifting the problem onto others. And no, the current policies is how we ended up with migrants being treated like cargo on the Med.

Matteo Salvini wasn’t exactly an open doors guy, scriver, and he’s the reason why there are (or were, at least) ships of migrants sitting around in the Med.

Do you think the newly turned away migrants are going to go back home because you said no at the border, wherever that border may be? There’s a reason they packed up their shit and left, so if you say no, they’re going somewhere else. That’s not taking responsibility, that’s making it someone else’s problem.

Quote from: scriver on October 30, 2020, 03:04:21 am

That not all religious people become extremists does not mean religion does not play a role for the ones who do.

Urge to snark rising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2020, 11:36:24 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 10:11:26 am

It presupposes radicalization in immigrants, which could be rooted out while doing what you said in your post, and doesn’t tar a third of the world as potential terrorists who need to be kept away at all cost.

It presupposes that muslim radicalisation happen among muslims.

Quote

If I felt superior I obviously wouldn’t need to engage you in this

Wouldn't you? It looks like you would.

Quote

Let’s explore your idea then. You can start deradicalisation programs, but how do you identify those that need to go through them? How do you get them onto the program? What should happen to someone who doesn’t complete the program successfully? How does stopping Muslim migration while doing this help?

You said we should consider the long term effects, good and bad, of our decision making on our communities. What do you think are the long term effects of your idea, which I see as stopping specifically Muslim migration and profiling what’s left for deradicalisation, correct me if I’m wrong?

Are you claiming the position that deradicalisation isn't possible? That it's impossible to tell a moderate or secular Muslim from a radical? That secularism and respect for each other is not possible to teach? You yourself talked about teaching critical thinking just a few posts ago.

As for the reason stopping Muslim migration helps, as I have already said but you've chosen to ignore, is that if Muslim migration to Europe is the source of muslim radicalisation in Europe, then adding to the numbers while you're trying to fight radical islamism goes against that aim. If you're trying to get rid of the bad apples in your apple basket, you don't keep adding new apples with new bad apples among them to the basket. You stop gathering apples until you've cleared the bad apples from basket.

Quote

Matteo Salvini wasn’t exactly an open doors guy, scriver, and he’s the reason why there are (or were, at least) ships of migrants sitting around in the Med.

Do you think the newly turned away migrants are going to go back home because you said no at the border, wherever that border may be? There’s a reason they packed up their shit and left, so if you say no, they’re going somewhere else. That’s not taking responsibility, that’s making it someone else’s problem.

If the only way to "take responsibility" to you is claiming responsibility for things that aren't your responsibility, then there will never be a way to be responsible enough.

Quote

Urge to snark rising.

You already are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2020, 11:55:04 am

Today: Man beaten and burned to death after mob accused him of desecrating Quran in Bangladesh (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/30/man-lynched-in-bangladesh-for-alleged-quran-desecration-police)

Teenager throws molotov cocktails at police station and stabs police officer whilst shouting Allahu Akbar in muslim-majority Tatarstan (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/30/russian-police-kill-teenager-who-stabbed-officer-in-tatarstan)

Man arrested for stabbing guard at the French Embassy in Saudi Arabia (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-france-consulate-attack-guard-jeddah-b1420321.html)

Police foil a fourth stabbing in France (https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/29/french-police-foil-another-attack-as-man-arrested-near-church-with-knife-13502088/)

Tens of thousands of Muslims, from Pakistan to Lebanon to the Palestinian territories, poured out of prayer services to join anti-France protests on Friday, as the French president’s promise to protect the right to caricature the Prophet Muhammad continues to roil the Muslim world. Demonstrations in Pakistan’s capital Islamabad turned violent as some 2,000 people who tried to march towards the French embassy were pushed back by police firing tear gas and beating protesters with batons. (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/30/as-anger-rises-thousands-of-muslims-protest-french-cartoons)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 11:57:53 am

Welp I tried to get you to open up, I guess I’m not as great as I think I am.

Sorry for wasting your time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2020, 11:59:40 am

Quote from: hector13 on October 30, 2020, 11:57:53 am

Welp I tried to get you to open up, I guess I’m not as great as I think I am.

Sorry for wasting your time.

Communicating authenticity and sincerity is difficult without attached body language and facial expression. Online, even an expression of sincerity can seem insincere.

*EDIT
Oh yeah and also in France, Turks took to the street shouting allahu akbar and where are you armenians. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turks-azeris-lyon-france-armenians-vienne-video-b1422175.html) This comes after Turkish protesters attacked Armenian protesters with hammers a day before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 03:34:03 am

There's significant murk (in my mind at least) around the police shooting of the far right guy with a handgun who threatened passerbys (police + North African immigrant) in Montfavet, Avignon.  Described as a psychiatric patient who according to Europe 1 shouted 'Allahu Akbar' the incident is NOT being treated by police as terrorism.  But various reports have picked it up and added it to the list of 'Islamic Terrorism' events over the last few days.

Well that's part of what has to happen to maintain a constant spin of bad muslims = the problem, right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 31, 2020, 04:16:48 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2020, 11:55:04 am

Tens of thousands of Muslims, from Pakistan to Lebanon to the Palestinian territories, poured out of prayer services to join anti-France protests on Friday, as the French president’s promise to protect the right to caricature the Prophet Muhammad continues to roil the Muslim world. Demonstrations in Pakistan’s capital Islamabad turned violent as some 2,000 people who tried to march towards the French embassy were pushed back by police firing tear gas and beating protesters with batons. (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/30/as-anger-rises-thousands-of-muslims-protest-french-cartoons)

While imposing the Muslim taboo of caricaturizing the prophet on non-Muslims is irrational normally, imposing the same restriction on a secular government that actually can't impinge on its citizens' right of expression is extraordinarily irrational and absurd. Unless I'm missing something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 04:46:55 am

I think the whole situation is rather complex but try this on:

The incident that sparked the (latest) controversy was the showing of the charicatures in a state-run secondary school.  So ultimately the French government can be seen to be ignoring the fact that some of the students at its schools are muslim and hence is not showing due diligence/sensitivity to their religious background.* In other words is it really inappropriate to ask the govenment to be directly responsible for what goes on in its own schools?

Of course this is a somewhat different issue to the original publication in the 'free' press of the cartoons.  It is also true that popular movements quickly turn into pogroms, especially when authority figues such as Macron dig in to entrenched hardline positions.


* It should be noted the teacher in this case asked muslim students if they would like to leave the classroom first.  Still there is the issue here of exluding part of the student population from certain activities.  A more educated approach might have been to instead teach a class about that period of history where all representations of christ were banned - hence the whole lamb and fish thing.  But maybe the involvement of the modern media was an important element of the lesson (shrug), I don't know.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on October 31, 2020, 05:04:06 am

I think the intent was to show a modern example, so the students could get more into the discussion (As I believe there was one? Having a class directly telling muslim students their beliefs are wrong seems tactless). There’s no reason to actually show the picture though, as every single person in France knows about it already, and the kids who haven’t seen it can look it up after class.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Then in response to this, everyone decided the teacher was at fault, and more French deserved to die

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2020, 05:39:12 am

You know I was going to make a specific reply, but I'm going to be more generic about this topic: I stand by the values of the Enlightement, which to me it seems are under threat by both the far right, religious conservatives of all sorts, and what passes for leftist these days (which to me feels far closer to postmodernism than  to any worker's movement but that's a different topic of discussion).

As such, I don't really think "Someone is offended by/triggered by/finds blasphemous  thing X" is a valid reason to censor X. Doesnt necessarily mean I think saying X is a good thing, and won't be necessarily saying X, both because I might not agree, and because in the current  social climate you're likely to be attacked by all the above groups, or conversely, supported by one of them in hopes of making you part of their larger anti-Enlightement campaign.
I do however think people have the right to say X  to a reasonable degree (meaning: non self-contradictory degree)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 05:57:40 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Then in response to this, everyone decided the teacher was at fault, and more French deserved to die

The length some people will go to to apologise for religious rightwing extremists is astounding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2020, 05:39:12 am

You know I was going to make a specific reply, but I'm going to be more generic about this topic: I stand by the values of the Enlightement, which to me it seems are under threat by both the far right, religious conservatives of all sorts, and what passes for leftist these days (which to me feels far closer to postmodernism than  to any worker's movement but that's a different topic of discussion).

As such, I don't really think "Someone is offended by/triggered by/finds blasphemous  thing X" is a valid reason to censor X. Doesnt necessarily mean I think saying X is a good thing, and won't be necessarily saying X, both because I might not agree, and because in the current  social climate you're likely to be attacked by all the above groups, or conversely, supported by one of them in hopes of making you part of their larger anti-Enlightement campaign.
I do however think people have the right to say X  to a reasonable degree (meaning: non self-contradictory degree)

Yeah, fuck the separation between church and state.  And bring on the kiddie pr0n, no reason to censor it just because it offends someone. Amirite?

To be more charitable there are most definitely bounds within which your above comments should operate and it depending on what we see as the 'generic topic' it may well fall outside of it.  State non-interference in religion, it seems you need reminding, is one of THE big tenets of the age of enlightenment.

What happens in the press is a different matter.  Their responsibility for fanning the flames of the War on Terror Islam is only rivalled by the role played by western governments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 06:17:27 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

Nice victim blaming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:22:34 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 06:17:27 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

Nice victim blaming.

I don't know what bias leads you to that perverted conclusion.

The fact that the teacher died as an act of religious/political violence is abhorrent and never should have occured.  They did, in my opinion make a mistake but one that should have brought professional review/reprimand through their state employer and not a lynch mob.  But that is not where Macron led/is leading the issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 06:33:54 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 06:17:27 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

Nice victim blaming.

Welcome to the 21st century: a magazine staff is executed for blasphemy, and five years later a French teacher brings up the lesson on freedom of expression & whether blasphemy warrants death. As a result he is assassinated, after students were paid to identify him, his severed head left on the street. The French President comes out in support of the murdered teacher in defence of France's enlightenment values; in response four more attacks are launched on the same day in which more innocent people are knifed to death, and two embassies attacked, alongside multiple demonstrations globally across the muslim world calling for boycotts and attacks on France.
On the same day, Turks look for Armenians to lynch on the streets of France, a man is burned to death in a Muslim majority country for blasphemy and the Russians also get attacked.

There is a stark difference in perspectives ITT which just seems insurmountable to cross

*EDIT
Btw it has now come to public light that the Church attacker arrived in France from Tunisia days before launching the attack via boat through Italy (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54742403). How long until the southern Europeans decide to stop letting in people who hate Europeans? Maybe never, maybe today
Narenda Modhi comes out in support of Macron after Pakistan and Bangladesh came out in opposition (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-emmanuel-macron-prophet-muhammad-cartoons-charlie-hebdo-b1417744.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 07:09:39 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:22:34 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 06:17:27 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 31, 2020, 05:28:18 am

I think the problem is the teacher was beheaded

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

Nice victim blaming.

I don't know what bias leads you to that perverted conclusion.

It's probably my bias against religious rightwing extremism and bias against people being murdered for "heresy". Those are pretty sound biases to have.

Quote

The fact that the teacher died as an act of religious/political violence is abhorrent and never should have occured.  They did, in my opinion make a mistake but one that should have brought professional review/reprimand through their state employer and not a lynch mob.  But that is not where Macron led/is leading the issue.

So you are saying that the state should enforce heresy laws on behalf of the religious right? You just mentioned separation of church and state above, do you even know what that means?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.  Strangely enough you skip over me sharing the view that heresy should not be a reason for death.  Nobody has said anything about enforcing heresy laws (other than you).  The call is for the state not to favour or promulgate one religion over another in its own institutions.  It is a corrollary of a state religion not being taught in schools.  The fact that raising that as a reasonable thing to do somehow brings out the nasty soundbites of (anti-)religious zealouts amuses me highly.  And beyond anything I was suggesting it as a diplomatic course Macron could have taken, even in the more measured/mealy-mouthed governmental form of 'establishing an inquiry into the matter'.  Yes minister.  That would not have sealed things but it would not have inflamed nations across the globe and would have allowed an in depth rational surveil of the connected issues - instead of us asking, how long until this happens again?


I preferred the several days older LW who was prepared to investigate the causes of things, at least somewhat, but that's just me I guess. The one who said:

Quote

Whereas our most violent and radicalised young'uns, tend to be from families that are well-educated, wealthier than most of the country, born in the country and well-integrated with good jobs and social networks - but prone to depression and viewed society very critically.

In case of a hopefully imminent return can I recommend this article even if its a few years old now:
https://insidestory.org.au/what-is-the-driving-force-behind-jihadist-terrorism/ (https://insidestory.org.au/what-is-the-driving-force-behind-jihadist-terrorism/)
Some out-takes

Quote

radicalisation is a youth revolt against society, articulated on an Islamic religious narrative of jihad

Frustration and resentment against society seems to be the only “psychological” trait often shared.

jihad is the only cause on the global market. If you kill in silence, it will be reported by the local newspaper; if you kill yelling “Allahuakbar,” you are sure to make the national headlines.

The priority, beyond building a more sophisticated intelligence system, is to debunk the narrative of heroism [...] to let Islam in Europe appear as a “normal” religion. In other words, the management of Islam should not be identified as a security issue first: in this case it will reinforce the fascination of “rebels looking for a cause” towards what is constructed by the West as the archenemy. Instead of exceptionalising, we should normalise.

The fact that many of the goverments across the muslim world are highly critical of France on this should at least give us pause for thought.  (Some like Erdogan are just going to be arses anyway but still...) 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2020, 09:13:24 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2020, 05:39:12 am

You know I was going to make a specific reply, but I'm going to be more generic about this topic: I stand by the values of the Enlightement, which to me it seems are under threat by both the far right, religious conservatives of all sorts, and what passes for leftist these days (which to me feels far closer to postmodernism than  to any worker's movement but that's a different topic of discussion).

As such, I don't really think "Someone is offended by/triggered by/finds blasphemous  thing X" is a valid reason to censor X. Doesnt necessarily mean I think saying X is a good thing, and won't be necessarily saying X, both because I might not agree, and because in the current  social climate you're likely to be attacked by all the above groups, or conversely, supported by one of them in hopes of making you part of their larger anti-Enlightement campaign.
I do however think people have the right to say X  to a reasonable degree (meaning: non self-contradictory degree)

Yeah, fuck the separation between church and state.  And bring on the kiddie pr0n, no reason to censor it just because it offends someone. Amirite?

You´re not very smart.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

"If he didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have shown that picture".

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

Nobody has said anything about enforcing heresy laws (other than you).  The call is for the state not to favour or promulgate one religion over another in its own institutions.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:22:34 am

They did, in my opinion make a mistake but one that should have brought professional review/reprimand through their state employer and not a lynch mob.

"He should have been punished for showing a heretic picture in class".

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

The call is for the state not to favour or promulgate one religion over another in its own institutions.  It is a corrollary of a state religion not being taught in schools.

And how is not allowing him to show a heretic picture in school not favouring a religion?

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

The fact that many of the goverments across the muslim world are highly critical of France on this should at least give us pause for thought

Yes, it should, but not in the way you think. Those are religious right-wing governments. You look at those governments and see if that is company you want to find yourself in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on October 31, 2020, 09:53:35 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

The fact that many of the goverments across the muslim world are highly critical of France on this should at least give us pause for thought

Yes, it should, but not in the way you think. Those are religious right-wing governments. You look at those governments and see if that is company you want to find yourself in.

Funnily (?) enough here's an article with Macron hugging Modi (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-emmanuel-macron-prophet-muhammad-cartoons-charlie-hebdo-b1417744.html)[1][2], another leader of a religious right-wing government. Modi just happens to dislike Muslims as well, which makes him a welcome ally.

[1]Not a new picture I'm sure, but nothing in the article implies their relationship isn't as hearty still.
[2]Thanks, LW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 10:18:58 am

Quote from: voliol on October 31, 2020, 09:53:35 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

The fact that many of the goverments across the muslim world are highly critical of France on this should at least give us pause for thought

Yes, it should, but not in the way you think. Those are religious right-wing governments. You look at those governments and see if that is company you want to find yourself in.

Funnily (?) enough here's an article with Macron hugging Modi (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-emmanuel-macron-prophet-muhammad-cartoons-charlie-hebdo-b1417744.html)[1][2], another leader of a religious right-wing government. Modi just happens to dislike Muslims as well, which makes him a welcome ally.

[1]Not a new picture I'm sure, but nothing in the article implies their relationship isn't as hearty still.
[2]Thanks, LW.

And here's a picture of him hugging the Pope (https://www.euractiv.com/section/freedom-of-thought/news/pope-and-macron-hold-intense-meeting-at-vatican/), and one of him hugging Merkel (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/macron-and-merkel-link-hands-for-armistice-centenary-tributes-h9dw6n0ts), two other religious right wing leaders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 31, 2020, 11:12:18 am

What’s your point there scriver?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 11:18:59 am

Politicians hug.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 31, 2020, 11:21:51 am

So do drunkards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 11:28:13 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

"If he didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have shown that picture".

I was replying directly to Loud Whispers, agreeing that it was a problem that he was beheaded but pointing out that there was a context here that LW was ignoring.  It is a problem to trample all over peoples deeply held beliefs in a state school setting.  Sure the reaction was totally over the top but it remains a bad judgement call on the part of the teacher.  Just like if I walk into the darkest alley in the seediest part of town I don't deserve to be raped/mugged/murdered but it would still be a mistake to do so (barring other very good reasons for needing to do so.)

Quote

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

Nobody has said anything about enforcing heresy laws (other than you).  The call is for the state not to favour or promulgate one religion over another in its own institutions.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:22:34 am

They did, in my opinion make a mistake but one that should have brought professional review/reprimand through their state employer and not a lynch mob.

"He should have been punished for showing a heretic picture in class".

The government should hold its teachers to account for doing stupid things in their professional roles.  It is my personal opinion that a reprimand (which is hardly a 'punishment' in the strong sense of the word) would be in order according to what I know/knew about the circumstances, but a review which understood more may well have led to no action, which is why the backslash.  This is not about 'heresy' but common sense and decency.  I hardly suggested murdering him, or even firing him would be appropirate courses of action.

Quote

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

The call is for the state not to favour or promulgate one religion over another in its own institutions.  It is a corrollary of a state religion not being taught in schools.

And how is not allowing him to show a heretic picture in school not favouring a religion?

Because there is no requirement to show it.  It is not specific but similar to not allowing him to show pornography.  Why must everything be allowed to be shown when it is known to be deeply offensive to some.  As was suggested above there was no reason to show it since everybody in france already knew about it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 11:52:06 am

So, summed up, you do believe that the state should enforce heresy laws because heresy upsets people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 12:14:24 pm

No.  It really is pointless trying to talk to you about this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 31, 2020, 12:38:56 pm

Yes, trying to convince me with apologism for religious right-wing fundamentalists is pretty pointless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 31, 2020, 12:43:34 pm

I don't see why a teacher who is trying to teach his students about how our western secular society came to exist through certain freedoms, like for example satire in the form of cartoons that ridicule <insert politician, prophet or dogma here>, should be reprimanded.

Religious tolerance only exists when no one tries to forcibly impose their beliefs on others, and that includes trying to impose censorship on what can and what cannot be mocked.



 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 31, 2020, 01:00:00 pm

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 11:28:13 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

"If he didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have shown that picture".

I was replying directly to Loud Whispers, agreeing that it was a problem that he was beheaded but pointing out that there was a context here that LW was ignoring.  It is a problem to trample all over peoples deeply held beliefs in a state school setting.  Sure the reaction was totally over the top but it remains a bad judgement call on the part of the teacher.  Just like if I walk into the darkest alley in the seediest part of town I don't deserve to be raped/mugged/murdered but it would still be a mistake to do so (barring other very good reasons for needing to do so.)

That's, uh, an unusual line of logic at the very least there. Do you think we should treat Muslims like they're liable to explode into apoplectic religious violence at a moment's notice as a policy? A quick google search indicates the existence of roughly 1.8 billion Muslims, so that would become a very nerve-racking attitude to take pretty quickly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 01:03:03 pm

Because it wasn't at all necessary to subject a student to material that they consider blasphemous in order to teach that lesson.  There are many other ways it could have been accomplished.  Perhaps even asking said student to explain why she held the cartoons to be so, if she was up to it.  The fact she had her teachers beliefs forcibly imposed upon her seems not to have occured to you.

Censorship is a tricky area but as far as I am aware no one has suggested that here.  (That said there are precedents for it in western europe - certain Nazi symbols, gestures and materials, I believe, but you would know better than me.)  It is a sensitive area that needs to be dealt with as a complex matter.  Yes sometimes it is not appropriate to say or do certain things but that does not mean they are completely banned.  The sound bites of the press and the rabble rousing of impassioned zealouts (not saying that you are one) are hardly the best basis for dealing with the matter. 

In the best spirit of the enlightenment - dare to use your own reason.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 01:18:31 pm

Sorry my previous reply was specifically a response to Martinuzz, although of course it is piece of the same fabric.  8)

Quote from: JoshuaFH on October 31, 2020, 01:00:00 pm

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 11:28:13 am

Quote from: scriver on October 31, 2020, 09:24:34 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 08:15:33 am

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.

You:

Quote from: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 06:08:18 am

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

"If he didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have shown that picture".

I was replying directly to Loud Whispers, agreeing that it was a problem that he was beheaded but pointing out that there was a context here that LW was ignoring.  It is a problem to trample all over peoples deeply held beliefs in a state school setting.  Sure the reaction was totally over the top but it remains a bad judgement call on the part of the teacher.  Just like if I walk into the darkest alley in the seediest part of town I don't deserve to be raped/mugged/murdered but it would still be a mistake to do so (barring other very good reasons for needing to do so.)

That's, uh, an unusual line of logic at the very least there. Do you think we should treat Muslims like they're liable to explode into apoplectic religious violence at a moment's notice as a policy? A quick google search indicates the existence of roughly 1.8 billion Muslims, so that would become a very nerve-racking attitude to take pretty quickly.

No.  But I do believe that people serving in public roles should be aware of when they are treading on controversial ground, do their best not to, and tread gently if they must.   

Let me ask you this in return - why did the teacher need to show the cartoons rather than just discuss their role and significance?  I.e. what was the point of that precise part of the act?  In other words why was it necessary to do something that the teacher knew to be incredibly offensive to some people, at least one of whom was in his class?

In the absence of good reasons it seems to me that he lacked the required sensitivity to a complex situation and I believe that the teacher made a bad judgement call = could have made better use of their reason.  Or to put it another way - why deeply offend someone when it can forseeably be avoided?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 31, 2020, 02:04:46 pm

Let me rephrase the question: Supposing hypothetically you are Macron. On hearing this news, what is the most reasonable course of action?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on October 31, 2020, 03:54:45 pm

I think there are two parts to the response Macron should have made.

Firstly condemn outright the use of violence as a political and religious weapon (and I assume we are all in agreement here, and that in fact Macron probably did make some statement to this effect).
[Additionally given the case in point compare the violence to some of the recent atrocious acts of the US against muslims.  This would certainly make some in the muslim world sit up and think and also take some of the wind out of the sails of (potential) terrorists.  Realistically this is never going to happen. I mention it because the connection is of the utmost importace, the current violence more or less directly stemming from the war on terror.]

Secondly, announce a governmental inquiry/review into the use of materials that can be considered blasphemous in the public school system.  Or better words to that effect, clear enough that it should cover the teachers actions and any similar sorts of cases in the past, present or future.  This shows that the government is concerned about what happened but also allows for a reasoned detailed examination of the problem of conflicting values which goes deeper than a right/wrong binary.  And allows for the conclusions/proposals to become public at a time when the hotheads on both sides have cooled off somewhat.

But then thinking of myself as Macron I am undoubtedly failing to take the opportunity to whip up more religious hatred and further my chances of re-election.  :-[

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Toady One on October 31, 2020, 06:11:40 pm

Hmm, at least four people have forum guideline trouble in here.  Perhaps its time to move on from the topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on October 31, 2020, 09:22:59 pm

Sounds like my time. What is my time, you may ask? Oh you better believe it's time to discuss the coronavirus.

You might say "I am bored of Coronavirus! I no longer wish to discuss it!" to which I say "Oh, but the coronavirus sure seems just as interested in us as the day it first met us." And it is most surely busy at that hobby.

To that end: France's lockdown was announced on Wednesday and went into effect on Friday (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54716993), with Parisians seen fleeing their city before the 9pm curfew locking things down there. Following suit, Belgium announced a partial lockdown on Friday (https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-europe-d4ac4a2af7d6f3ef6acdec2fba5f27e3) would begin on Monday, with Prime Minister Alexander De Croo saying “We are going towards a reinforced confinement with only one goal: avoiding that health care services collapse." The ECDC considers Belgium's outbreak the worst in Europe, a title they must have recently wrested from Czechia while I was not looking (I would hope this means Czechia has improved, but hope has proved the source of meager comfort recently).

Not to be outdone by damned continentals Boris Johnson has announced a 4 week lockdown (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54763956). Hopefully, something was learned from the last lockdown. Hopefully. Non-essential businesses close, but schools and colleges remain open.

Feel free to chime in on how Germany or other european countries are doing; or I'll get to them eventually if no one does.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 01, 2020, 03:27:02 am

*Flings a handful of poop at misko27*

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on November 01, 2020, 10:11:18 am

As a side subject, the ECJ recently judged that whole insects were not covered by the former novel food regulations, and as the ”new” regulations of 2018 are not fully enforced (if I understand it right) it is basically legal to sell whole insects as food in the EU now. https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2020/10/20/Whole-insects-do-not-fall-under-old-Novel-Food-regulation-rules-EU-Court-of-Justice

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 01, 2020, 10:16:36 am

That's very interesting. What would you prefer, mealworm or crickets?

I can honestly say that thinking of it, I would really prefer it if my insect food had legs.

Also, höhö. Mealworm.

Edit: So it's specifically whole insects, but not processed ones?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 01, 2020, 01:27:35 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 01, 2020, 10:16:36 am

I can honestly say that thinking of it, I would really prefer it if my insect food had legs.

Mealworms have legs. 6 relatively small but fully functional legs at the front part of their body, they sort of drag their tail end around with them like a human propping themselves up on their hands and crawling with their legs limp. They can get a pretty good grip with the little claws on the ends, on a rough enough surface they can properly hold on, but not enough to support their weight at any meaningful incline.

From what I've heard legs are actually a nuisance on small food bugs, they stick in your teeth.

You can buy some big soft bodied beetle larvae as food, but unless you buy fresh they won't have that burst in your mouth quality.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 02, 2020, 04:10:57 pm

In Vienna, there has been an armed attack on either a synagogue, or on pubs and bars near a synagogue.
The Austrian minister of Internal Affairs has stated that he assumes there to be an attack with 'multiple assailants, multiple injured and probably multiple dead'.

According to Austrian press agency APA, one assailant has been arrested.  'Kronen Zeitung' newspaper reports that one assailant blew himself up, but this has not been confirmed.

A policeman guarding the synagogue situated at the Schwedenplatz is said to have been critically injured.
Eye-witnesses speak of hundreds of gunshots from automatic weapons.

Police have cordonned off the area surrounding the synagogue, and the jewish community has called upon it's members to stay indoors.

According to the chairman of the jewish community, it is unclear whether the attack was aimed at the synagogue, since both it, and the office of the jewish community nextdoors were closed at the time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 02, 2020, 04:18:12 pm

Let´s be frank here, if there has been an attack on a synagoge and a pub that are close to each other, it´s far more likely that it was an undiscriminatory far right or islamic integrist attack than that the local chapter of the Prohibition Party suddenly decided to embrance propaganda of the deed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 02, 2020, 04:19:25 pm

I'm hearing that there's a hostage situation currently.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on November 02, 2020, 08:59:41 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on November 02, 2020, 04:18:12 pm

Let´s be frank here, if there has been an attack on a synagoge and a pub that are close to each other, it´s far more likely that it was an undiscriminatory far right or islamic integrist attack than that the local chapter of the Prohibition Party suddenly decided to embrance propaganda of the deed.

Synagogue was closed, so either attackers were going after pubs, or have terrible planning. Clearly a Jewish community, so the intent could be the same.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 04, 2020, 04:15:27 pm

In slightly less divisive discussion, Denmark decides to wage war against the true enemy within: THE NURGLE WORSHIPING MINSK (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-denmark-mink/denmark-plans-to-cull-its-mink-population-after-coronavirus-mutation-spreads-to-humans-idUSKBN27K1X6).

Quote

Health authorities found virus strains in humans and in minks which showed decreased sensitivity against antibodies, potentially lowering the efficacy of future vaccines, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said.
“We have a great responsibility towards our own population, but with the mutation that has now been found, we have an even greater responsibility for the rest of the world as well,” Frederiksen told a news conference.
The findings, which have been shared with the World Health Organization and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, were based on laboratory tests by the State Serum Institute, the Danish authority dealing with infectious diseases.
The head of the WHO’s emergencies programme, Mike Ryan, called on Friday for full-scale scientific investigations of the complex issue of humans - outside China - infecting mink which in turn transmitted the virus back to humans.
“We have been informed by Denmark of a number of persons infected with coronavirus from mink, with some genetic changes in the virus,” WHO said in a statement emailed to Reuters in Geneva. “The Danish authorities are investigating the epidemiological and virological significance of these findings.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on November 04, 2020, 04:30:55 pm

First the pig plague and then mink corona? 2020 is a bad year to be a Danish farm animal... I guess all years are as they tend to end up at the other end of a butchery nonetheless, but even more so now that they're getting culled.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 04, 2020, 06:02:20 pm

In the past few months, a lot of mink farms have had their populations euthanised over here in the Netherlands because of corona outbreak.  Corona can not only travel from human to mink, but also from mink to human.
There was already a plan to forbid all mink farming in 2024, but from what I understand, mink farms will be forbidden from 2021 now.

My biggest fear is that if corona can travel both ways between cats and humans too, public opinion will make the government start a cat holocaust.  In that case I will not comply and use ultra-violence if needed to defend my furry companions.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 04, 2020, 06:03:51 pm

I have three cats, and two people in my house with corona.  Cats are fine, people are less fine but could be worse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 04, 2020, 06:05:43 pm

Well, it has already been shown that cats can get corona, but have very mild to no illness.  So far there's no indication it can jump back from cats to humans though, but I don't know if much testing on that matter has been done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: misko27 on November 04, 2020, 08:50:19 pm

No testing, but the lack of reports of it versus the relative commonness of the cat is a good sign. Consider that the mink is a hell of a lot less common than cats are but we have reports of crossinfection in the former and not the latter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 05, 2020, 02:43:28 am

I am 100% certain humanity would tantrum spiral if it came to culling the cats

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on November 05, 2020, 06:15:52 am

Quote from: misko27 on November 04, 2020, 08:50:19 pm

No testing, but the lack of reports of it versus the relative commonness of the cat is a good sign. Consider that the mink is a hell of a lot less common than cats are but we have reports of crossinfection in the former and not the latter.

I guess also animals more similar to bats are likely to catch and pass on thr virus. I wonder if rats can be plague spreaders this time around.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 05, 2020, 06:33:14 am

Minks are more similar to cats than they are to bats

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on November 05, 2020, 11:11:41 am

Bats are well-positioned to be carriers for virulent diseases (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ2jDPgvbTY&ab_channel=SciShow):
* Immune systems that respond quickly, meaning viruses that can incubate or spread quickly are selected-for.
* Communal living with lots of saliva-spreading shrieking means high transmission, causing reservoirs of disease to remain in a population.

Cats aren't a social species, so you don't get much virus spread of communal diseases outside of specific environments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 05, 2020, 11:57:40 am

Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove have a curry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ19vOwQY3g)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on November 05, 2020, 06:00:48 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on November 05, 2020, 06:33:14 am

Minks are more similar to cats than they are to bats

My mind went "mink=rodent=bat" which I will admit is a big leap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 05, 2020, 11:14:35 pm

Ah. But a mink is not a rodent. It is part of the mustelidae family, like badgers, weasels, otters and wolverines.
Bats aren't rodents either

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on November 05, 2020, 11:39:49 pm

I'm an idiot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 06, 2020, 03:45:32 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 05, 2020, 11:57:40 am

Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove have a curry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ19vOwQY3g)

Buuuut surely, having offed Dom, he'd have needed to get the bill anyway...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 06, 2020, 06:12:37 am

Rodents aren't rodents though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on November 06, 2020, 07:47:03 am

It's all mammals in the end.

Still makes more sense than the Platypus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on November 06, 2020, 07:53:44 am

Uropeons so funny.  Tell us 'bout black swans agin.  ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on November 06, 2020, 08:42:37 am

Swans are just Geese with a pretense of dignity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on November 06, 2020, 09:59:28 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on November 06, 2020, 08:42:37 am

Swans are just Geese with a pretense of dignity.

Geese are just angry dogs with feathers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on November 06, 2020, 10:00:06 am

Dogs are just stupider cats. Thus it is proven that Bats are Cats are Rats and Mice or Meeses are Mooses. And dogs are frogs are doors are floors are yours are mine. The interconnectivity of these things is very clear to me. So why, or wherefore, do you call me mad? Wabbajack wabbajack wabbajack.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 06, 2020, 01:10:00 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on November 06, 2020, 03:45:32 am

Buuuut surely, having offed Dom, he'd have needed to get the bill anyway...

Post-humous expenses?

In other news, the EU commission has completed a draft for submission to the European Parliament that would allow the Commission to propose sanctions on EU countries with a qualified majority instead of a unanimous vote. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/deal-struck-enable-eu-block-budget-payments-rogue-members) These measures have largely been proposed as a giant middle finger to Poland & Hungary, and have been championed by Juncker the Drunker since 2018, as the Visegrad bois have been promoted to public enemy #1 after the most ill-behaved European nation decided to stick its foot half way in and half way out of the EuroUnion.

Quote

The deal must now be officially endorsed by a qualified majority of the EU’s 27 member states and a majority in the parliament. But MEPs and the member states are remain in dispute over the total size of the seven-year budget and coronavirus recovery fund, in a row that threatens its timely distribution. The parliament wants to secure additional funding beyond the €1.8tn (£1.6tn) agreed by EU leaders earlier this year.
Cristian Terheş MEP, from the Romanian Christian Democratic National Peasants’ party, said the rule-of-law mechanism was an unacceptable interference by Brussels into domestic politics.
He said: “The EU is shaking a chequebook rather than a gun at the head of democratically elected governments in Poland and Hungary in order to bully them into doing Brussels’ bidding.
“This is a despicable interference in the lawful democratic decision-making of member states. States have constitutions and parliaments which need to be respected by Brussels, rather than being whipped into line like a badly behaved child.”

Little did they know, THIS WAS A MAXIMUM BULLY ZONE

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 14, 2020, 06:54:29 pm

Congratulations on your independence, I guess. I didn't even know that was going on.

https://twitter.com/AmazonHelp/status/1327654526963376128 (https://twitter.com/AmazonHelp/status/1327654526963376128)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 14, 2020, 06:57:57 pm

It was only a matter of time before Amazon started delivering on geopolitics. We parcel packaged East Amazon Company now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 14, 2020, 07:09:33 pm

Quote from: Iduno on November 14, 2020, 06:54:29 pm

Congratulations on your independence, I guess. I didn't even know that was going on.

https://twitter.com/AmazonHelp/status/1327654526963376128 (https://twitter.com/AmazonHelp/status/1327654526963376128)

Northern Ireland has always been a weird legal thing for lots of organisations. Lots of services, governmental and private, have more or less separate branches for NI that have to be contacted differently from the counterparts in England/Scotland/Wales. I'm not clear on exactly why, I assume it's something to do with the Good Friday Agreement and the special relationship between N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2020, 07:26:53 am

That's not the reason Amazon gave. They're pretty much saying that NI isn't part of the UK. Which is demonstrably false.

If they have another reason, such as the Good Friday Agreement (not sure what legalistic dance you'd need to make THAT work) then they should say.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on November 15, 2020, 07:52:48 am

You did it, lads. Congrats!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 17, 2020, 05:19:54 pm

THE PROPHECY LIES BROKEN, BY HIS WILL

JEZZA RISES (https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1328786477430566916?s=20)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 17, 2020, 06:13:23 pm

AWAKEN AWAKEN AWAKEN AWAKEN, TAKE THE GREGGS THAT MUST BE BAKEN

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on November 25, 2020, 06:40:26 pm

It is time to bring out the popcorn.
The largest far right party in the Netherlands, "Forum for Democracy" by Thierry Baudet is currently imploding in spectacular fashion, with everybody backstabbing everybody.

Apparently it all started after Thierry went full Qanon at an internal meeting last week, including all the nasty stuff about Soros, pedophiles and Clinton, and in addition stated that most of his friends were anti semitic and that that was all nice and fine. Surprisingly there were some people in the party that thought he might have gone a bit too far, and they have been trying to throw him out of the party for the past week. This is difficult because Thierry more or less is the party. Anyhow the whole fight is being played out in the media, and more and more garbage hits the news every day. The Qanon stuff just came out.

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6092869/nog-meer-fvd-prominenten-kritisch-op-baudet-senator-schrijft-brandbrief.html (https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6092869/nog-meer-fvd-prominenten-kritisch-op-baudet-senator-schrijft-brandbrief.html)

In the last provincial elections they actually became the largest party in the country (all other parties had stopped their campaign after a terrorist attack 2 days before, but FvD did not, doubled down, and won a lot of votes from angry people)
Thierry did not yet wield any real power on a national level yet because his rise to fame was fairly recent. With elections coming up early next year he soon would have though, so I am enjoying every moment of this. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 25, 2020, 06:59:43 pm

I enjoy fascists self-destructing. That is my favorite political event. When fascists kill each other for no reason, I think to myself "yes". When fascists win fair elections, I think to myself "no".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 25, 2020, 07:09:09 pm

The hypocricy is staggering. Party member Annabel Nanninga judged Baudet for anti-semitism and racism.  The same Annabel Nanninga that called refugees from Africa that cross the Mediterranean 'bobber niggers' not too long ago.

But yeah, hopeful developments there. Let's hope the party self destructs indeed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on November 26, 2020, 03:05:05 am

Yeah, the hypocrisy is strong in this one. I have the impression they have not dropped Thierry for his views, but only because he seems so unhinged lately that it might cost them the upcoming election. On top of that all of the vultures are hoping to succeed him in ruling the party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 29, 2020, 06:15:08 am

PUNISHED JEZZA BATTLES THE LAWLOCKS OF THE DREADED BLAIRITE CABAL FOR READMISSION INTO THE HERMETIC ORDER OF LABOUR (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-start-legal-action-over-suspension-labour-whip)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 29, 2020, 07:56:25 am

...He's suing them for letting him back into Labour?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 30, 2020, 06:59:26 pm

Quote from: scriver on November 29, 2020, 07:56:25 am

...He's suing them for letting him back into Labour?

He got let back in then kicked back out. He's suing them to reverse the second Corbrexining

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 30, 2020, 07:10:31 pm

I'm getting the impression from the article that he's accusing the whole thing of being influenced/orchestrated by some sort of backroom stuff rather than being done properly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 30, 2020, 07:15:44 pm

That was what I got, too.

To be fair to him he’s probably right that the whole antisemitism thing has been blown out of proportion, but to be fair to the party, he has been really, really awful at dealing with it since the start.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on November 30, 2020, 07:31:37 pm

I've honestly been so zoned out of the whole mess down in England that I don't even know what he's in trouble for saying.

Was it anti-israel stuff or actual anti-semitic stuff?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 30, 2020, 08:29:16 pm

It's literally nothing. When they're trying to seem reasonable they say that he just let other, unspecified people be anti-semetic. When they're in tabloid mode, they say Corbyn wants to personally kill every Jew in the world by not committing to a nuclear first strike in the event Israel is attacked.

There's nothing to engage with that isn't fevered Tory propaganda - it is best ignored, as Corbyn should have ignored it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2020, 11:27:26 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on November 30, 2020, 07:31:37 pm

I've honestly been so zoned out of the whole mess down in England that I don't even know what he's in trouble for saying.

Was it anti-israel stuff or actual anti-semitic stuff?

He never said anything dodgy, nor was he even suspended for how he handled the antisemitism inquiries or antisemite cases within the party - rather, he was suspended for saying the allegations were blown out of proportion for political effect by his opponents inside and outside of the party. The guy who gutted Corbyn from the labour party was this lad:

Quote from: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/starmer-plans-to-reform-party-equality-and-human-rights-commission-report-labour-antisemitism-1.500754

New General Secretary David Evans starts his later this month. Sources close to Mr Evans have told the JC that he is determined to act more efficiently that his predecessor over the stain of antisemitism in the party. As assistant general secretary of the party between 1999 and 2001 under Tony Blair, he played a leading role in Labour's victory in the 2001 election.
A staunch opponent of hard-left politics, Mr Evans is also said to share Sir Keir’s belief that antisemitism must be stamped out of the party as quickly as possible if Labour is to be in a position to win the next election.
Mr Evans is also known to be a fierce critic of anti-Zionism, stretching back to his early days in politics at York University.

Who is the political polar opposite of Corbyn in just about every way, so you can see why Jezza thinks he got shafted via political intervention

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 03, 2020, 09:07:35 pm

And, in continuing efforts to battle anti-semitisim, Labor kicked out Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, from Jewish Voice for Labor (and a member of Labor) as well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2020, 03:23:04 pm

Quote from: Iduno on December 03, 2020, 09:07:35 pm

And, in continuing efforts to battle anti-semitisim, Labor kicked out Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, from Jewish Voice for Labor (and a member of Labor) as well.

It is a very 2020 mood for a panel of gentiles to judge whether a jewish woman is antisemitic or not

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 06, 2020, 07:13:46 pm

I wonder what the EU's parting words will be when the Brexit happens...
'So long, and thanks for all the fish'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 06, 2020, 07:34:20 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2020, 07:13:46 pm

I wonder what the EU's parting words will be when the Brexit happens...
'So long, and thanks for all the fish'

"See you tomorrow..."

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 06, 2020, 09:10:35 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on December 06, 2020, 03:23:04 pm

Quote from: Iduno on December 03, 2020, 09:07:35 pm

And, in continuing efforts to battle anti-semitisim, Labor kicked out Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, from Jewish Voice for Labor (and a member of Labor) as well.

It is a very 2020 mood for a panel of gentiles to judge whether a jewish woman is antisemitic or not

Yeah, but those were all jewish people who didn't want to kill off poor people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2020, 04:10:28 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 06, 2020, 07:13:46 pm

I wonder what the EU's parting words will be when the Brexit happens...
'So long, and thanks for all the fish'

"You cannot get off Mr. Bone's wild ride."

Then the brextension period begins, for a brexternity to breyond

Quote from: Iduno on December 06, 2020, 09:10:35 pm

Yeah, but those were all jewish people who didn't want to kill off poor people.

cut the homeless in half by 2025

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 10, 2020, 07:10:07 am

The Volks-rant won the European Newspaper of the Year award for the second time in a row

https://newspaperaward.org/22-european-newspaper-award-list-of-winners/#toggle-id-5

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 10, 2020, 07:22:43 am

German newspaper wins German newspaper award -- sensation of the year

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 10, 2020, 09:55:03 am

In multiple cities in Albania riots have broken out, after police shot and killed a young man that ignored the corona night curfew.

The police called out the man for being out on the streets during curfew time, after which the man fled and ran away.  A police officer shot him in the back and he died.

Even though the police officer who fired the shot was immediatly arrested by his colleagues, the first riots broke out on wednesday in the capital city Tirana, and spread throughout the country today.

The rioters are setting fires near government buildings, and throwing stones at the police, who in turn respond with tear gas.  The protestors demand the government resigns, or at least the minister of internal affairs and the prime minister.

Multiple people have been injured during the riots, amongst whom 9 police officers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on December 10, 2020, 05:09:00 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2020, 07:22:43 am

German newspaper wins German newspaper award -- sensation of the year

Volkskrant is Dutch not German as I recall.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 10, 2020, 05:23:23 pm

IIRC Volksrant is the voice of the european people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 10, 2020, 05:36:20 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on December 10, 2020, 05:09:00 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2020, 07:22:43 am

German newspaper wins German newspaper award -- sensation of the year

Volkskrant is Dutch not German as I recall.

Yes it is dutch but I think scriver knows that and was just messing with me hahaha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 10, 2020, 08:46:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 10, 2020, 05:36:20 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on December 10, 2020, 05:09:00 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2020, 07:22:43 am

German newspaper wins German newspaper award -- sensation of the year

Volkskrant is Dutch not German as I recall.

Yes it is dutch but I think scriver knows that and was just messing with me hahaha

I must admit I was trolling for a "Dutch totally == Germans" opportunity, I apologise martinuzz

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 11, 2020, 10:01:24 am

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2020, 08:46:19 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on December 10, 2020, 05:36:20 pm

Quote from: Grim Portent on December 10, 2020, 05:09:00 pm

Quote from: scriver on December 10, 2020, 07:22:43 am

German newspaper wins German newspaper award -- sensation of the year

Volkskrant is Dutch not German as I recall.

Yes it is dutch but I think scriver knows that and was just messing with me hahaha

I must admit I was trolling for a "Dutch totally == Germans" opportunity, I apologise martinuzz

Other way around. Germans are from Deutchland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 11, 2020, 10:05:49 am

The joke is that Dutch and deutsch is the same word, Iduno.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 11, 2020, 10:09:53 am

Quote from: scriver on December 11, 2020, 10:05:49 am

The joke is that Dutch and deutsch is the same word, Iduno.

Yes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2021, 08:28:28 am

Wow, Podemos really manages to make progressive changes to Spain.

- People now have a right to a social minimum income if they cannot provide for themselves, ranging from 462 to 1015 euros per month depending on personal circumstances

- paternal leave.  Spain now ranks in the top 3 of global woman emanciption, together with Sweden and Iceland.  New fathers now have a right to 16 weeks of fully paid for (by the employer) paternal leave. This is exactly as much as women get.  With this, Spain hopes to end the discrimination of women on the job market. The argument 'women can get pregnant, then they cannot work for me for 16 weeks' is no longer valid.
(side note: compared to a lot of other EU countries, 16 weeks pregnancy leave for women is very short though)

- sex without explicit spoken permission from both parties can now be considered rape.  Before, if you raped someone but they were too afraid to say no, it was not rape.
If someone does not say 'yes'  explicitly, and penetration still occurs, it can be punished with up to 15 years in prison.

- euthanasia legalized for patients who are suffering hopelessly.

- honouring Franco, making fascist salutes now forbidden. Can get fined up to 150000 euros for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 13, 2021, 08:39:33 am

Suffering hopelessly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 13, 2021, 09:08:20 am

Dunno, what is the correct english translation for ' uitzichtloos lijden'?

google said uitzichtloos = hopeless. I already had a ' don't feel quite right'  feeling but couldn't find the proper term in my memory.

uitzichtloos lijden = suffering with no possibility or hope for improvement

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 13, 2021, 09:15:33 am

So terminally ill patients and/or patients with incurable long term health conditions?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 13, 2021, 10:15:35 am

Pretty much. Uitzicht (Uit-zicht) means Out-Sight directly, referring to what you can see or have in sight. Uitzicht-los is Out-Sight-Less, having nothing un sight -- ie in context of diseases "With no chance of improvement within sight".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2021, 05:28:17 am

With high likelyhood our dutch government will fall today, over a terrible debacle where our tax services labelled innocent people as fraudulent and took 10s of thousands of euros from them. As a result, people lost their jobs, their homes, they got divorced, their children were taken away by CPS... Quite a few of them committed suicide even. (it took 10 years for our government to admit wrongdoing, most of those people have been in misery for 10 years. They still have not been reimbursed, not that that is possible for those who lost loved ones, children, or their life)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Caz on January 15, 2021, 05:59:59 am

(https://i.imgur.com/AvmpHwO.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 15, 2021, 06:24:45 am

Alternatively:

Strongdogg -- Colonialism was wrong, the benefits and profits of each land's natural resources should go to the people of that land
Weakdogg -- Why are you upset all profits from your fish go to France?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2021, 06:27:48 am

Ahhhh hah.

I prefer Scriver's.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 15, 2021, 06:56:06 am

EU: so long, and thanks for all the fish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2021, 04:08:36 pm

The Royal Navy's probably also a bad example to bring up, given that the Royal Navy is actually sailing in the South China Seas (https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/chinas-chilling-warning-royal-navy-over-hms-queen-elizabeths-mission-3083498) whilst the EU is afraid of China. (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformation-china-eu-coronavirus.html) Looks like the Lib Dems were wrong; you don't have to be in the EU to oppose China, you just have to oppose China to oppose China.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on January 16, 2021, 11:28:52 pm

Inb4 China oppose Great Britain and start having warship games in the English Channel...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 17, 2021, 07:18:58 am

Our government did fall btw, past friday. We now have a demissionary government that is not allowed to make decisions without parliament approval.  We will not have early election, because they are already planned for march anyways.


EDIT: our now demissionary government decided (or rather followed the advice of our outbreak management team) to keep all schools and day-care centers closed for longer. The plan was to re-open them on january 25th, now they will remain closed until at least february 8th.

To try and relieve some stress for those parents who have been trying to work from home while taking care of their litters, the government is exploring the option of giving parents who work from home some days or weeks of paid leave, so they can regain some energy and focus on looking after their kids. How exactly the companies they work for are going to keep functioning with many employees on leave is not clear.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2021, 08:18:25 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on January 16, 2021, 11:28:52 pm

Inb4 China oppose Great Britain and start having warship games in the English Channel...

Channel Islands is historic Chinese territory according to the 20 dash line

Quote from: martinuzz on January 17, 2021, 07:18:58 am

Our government did fall btw, past friday. We now have a demissionary government that is not allowed to make decisions without parliament approval.  We will not have early election, because they are already planned for march anyways.

EDIT: our now demissionary government decided (or rather followed the advice of our outbreak management team) to keep all schools and day-care centers closed for longer. The plan was to re-open them on january 25th, now they will remain closed until at least february 8th.

To try and relieve some stress for those parents who have been trying to work from home while taking care of their litters, the government is exploring the option of giving parents who work from home some days or weeks of paid leave, so they can regain some energy and focus on looking after their kids. How exactly the companies they work for are going to keep functioning with many employees on leave is not clear.

Which government fell?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2021, 08:56:21 am

Depends on whether you ask me or Scriver  :D :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 18, 2021, 09:05:41 am

We are well aware you're a secret Lichtensteiner martinuz. All these articles in Dutch fools no-one!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2021, 09:10:26 am

Shit, you got me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on January 18, 2021, 12:25:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2021, 08:18:25 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on January 16, 2021, 11:28:52 pm

Inb4 China oppose Great Britain and start having warship games in the English Channel...

Channel Islands is historic Chinese territory according to the 20 dash line

I don't think that the phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" has ever applied to China.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2021, 03:35:57 am

Quote from: feelotraveller on January 18, 2021, 12:25:45 pm

I don't think that the phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" has ever applied to China.

The historic name for the old Chinese Empires was "all under heaven," if that counts

Plus the CCP habit of having 1 leader, 1 country, 1 timezone means the sun would set somewhere in the megatimezone

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2021, 09:10:26 am

Shit, you got me.

Secret luxembourger detected

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 19, 2021, 07:57:44 am

But no, I am not from Lichtenstein, I am from Lichtstad (City of Lights). At least, that's what my hometown used to be called when our homeboy Philips still made lightbulbs.


EINDHOVEN DE GEKSTE WOENSEL WEST, JONGUH!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIKP7dFSG9E

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on January 19, 2021, 10:20:15 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2021, 03:35:57 am

Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HNLnm_-RkU)

Quote from: martinuzz on January 19, 2021, 07:57:44 am

Mr. Blue Sky (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voMRHPNevOE)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2021, 10:04:41 am

UK and EU in diplomatic row after EU insists it's a country and UK insists the EU's an international organisation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55742664)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 21, 2021, 11:37:20 am

Even after leaving the EU, it seems the UK remains the staunchest defender of Europe from federalisation.

Not that the bar is particularly high, mind

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 21, 2021, 01:28:20 pm

inb4 Napoleon's great-great-great-great-great-grandson seizes control of the EU and declares the return of the French Empire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 21, 2021, 01:40:28 pm

Does that mean we get Canada for free?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 22, 2021, 06:44:21 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on January 21, 2021, 01:28:20 pm

inb4 Napoleon's great-great-great-great-great-grandson seizes control of the EU and declares the return of the French Empire.

Boris to Putin: what ho jolly old bean it's time again
Putin to Boris: time for what?
Boris to Putin: time for you to get invaded by the French

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on January 23, 2021, 09:46:55 pm

Europe jokes crossing over with Coronavirus thread (but what isn't).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eryw_fwXYAg_vXG?format=jpg&name=medium)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on January 23, 2021, 10:09:13 pm

-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2021, 06:46:32 am

So this is an interesting case in probably what is the first real incidence of inter UK-EU diplomacy (if you discount the UK-EU row over whether the EU was capable of conducting diplomacy in any fashion). So one of the problems caused by the UK withdrawal of the European Union program is that the UK was the centre of the European Union's drug regulatory bodies. Subsequently the EU side of things had to rebuild their regulatory capacities from ground up, which would've been all right if corona didn't hit two years later, putting a nascent institution to the test.

Cue corona, where the UK government fucks up literally everything at every stage where the pandemic could've been manageable. Thankfully UK drug regulation is not conducted by the gov, so naturally everything happens quickly. At this point the EU states they'd prefer a slow roll-out instead of taking the risk of rushing vaccine production (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/04/anthony-fauci-apologises-for-implied-criticism-of-speedy-uk-vaccine-approval). And this is the important part - in 2020 all of the major European national centres of biotech made the deliberate decision to slow down vaccine approval:

Quote

EU politicians, meanwhile, defended the bloc’s approach. France’s Europe minister, Clément Beaune, said France and the 26 other EU member states had “opted for the collective approach – for speed and for safety”.
Beaune said that contrary to claims by some British politicians, the UK had not “benefited from Brexit in its decision”, since Britain was “still bound, until 31 December, to the European framework”. The British government had simply “opted for certain accelerated procedures” available to all, he said.
The German health minister, Jens Spahn, also said the UK had chosen a different route – limited emergency authorisation – that Germany “could have chosen too, but we consciously decided against it”.

Which in my opinion is not necessarily a bad thing; everyone prefers a vaccine with a high volume of clinically proven efficacy and safety, and waiting for studies and regulatory approval from 26 countries offers more chance for peer review than the studies and review of 1. Obviously, waiting for 26 countries is also much slower than waiting for 1. The key thing here is that the EU chose this path. The natural trade-off is that the EU would start vaccine production later, which anyone with a basic understanding of the linearity of time would be able to understand. Which brings us to the trade war, and the EU's disastrous response to the UK's hastened vaccine production.

Macron starts getting criticism that he doesn't even have a national vaccine policy and the French people don't even want to take the vaccine. (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201230-criticism-grows-in-france-over-slow-vaccination-drive) Merkel starts catching flak from German researchers who are bloody confused why Germany has so little vaccines when a German company (BioNTech) helped develop the Pfizer-BioNTech. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-germany-idUSKBN29F0BP) Even the Netherlands and Belgium have been embarassed domestically and across the EU by having such a slow vaccine rollout whilst exporting vaccines to the UK (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-vaccines-idUSKBN29X0WV).

To make matters worse, these tensions have reached a flashpoint after a production failure at an Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine production plant in Belgium cut monthly production from 100 million vaccine doses to 25 million (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/why-has-astrazeneca-cut-vaccines-to-eu-and-will-it-impact-uk-).

This has led to the EU threatening a trade war with the UK unless the UK sends the EU vaccines produced in the UK (https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep).
The UK gov did one thing right; it secured many vaccine contracts and it secured them early in anticipation that things could go wrong. Vaccines could later prove to be unsafe, or ineffective, or there could be production issues. This is the only reason why the UK Astrazeneca production is moving on without problems - because those problems were resolved in the first months, the same way they would be in the Belgian production line which is just younger than the UK one. But the European countries who decided to purchase their vaccines through the European Union have had to wait, even if like Portugal or Spain, the need to vaccinate exceeds the need for European political centralisation. This is made all the fucking richer when the Germans are on the one hand, saying the UK fucked the EU by making vaccines early (???), then saying the EU needs to maintain solidarity against the UK (we want to help!), then breaking EU law by purchasing vaccines on a bilateral basis for themselves. (http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202101/12/WS5ffd00d6a31024ad0baa1f40.html) Rules for me and rules for thee (https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/commission-takes-evasive-action-over-germanys-vaccine-side-deal/); I can't fucking stand the European Union. Even Germany knows the EU vaccine policy doesn't make any fucking sense, but they don't have the decency to let the southern Europeans buy their own vaccines whilst they break ranks. Instead they'd rather start a stupid fucking trade war, to threaten to kill British people, and for what?

The UK companies have from the start been working with other countries' companies to increase worldwide production via licensing agreements and joint research-production ventures. The Germans can start this bloody trade war all they want, they have no ability to take British vaccines made in Britain, and just last week we approved production of another vaccine. All they're going to do is sever joint research, development and production in future between the UK and EU in the middle of a pandemic, lowering European vaccine production AND IMPORTS. I'm so disappointed and irate. This is why dealing with countries is so much nicer. We do joint production with India and India doesn't pull this shit. We do joint research and development with the USA and the USA doesn't pull this shit. We try joint research and production with the EU and they're accountable to absolutely no one when they fuck themselves, fuck us, fuck the world. Fuck em

Anyways now that I'm done venting, the only solution is to increase vaccine production internationally. Capturing vaccine share of a small pie doesn't mean shit. Godspeed Europeans, you're gonna get killed by a government club that thinks its a country. I hope the UK gov just allows UK companies to directly export to European countries directly so Euros other than Germany can actually get some fucking vaccines. Jesus Christ, do they seriously think any country is ever going to work in the EU again if they're just going to steal shit whenever they feel like it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

Turns out that the EU was right though. AstraZeneca, after being asked by the EU to do so repeatedly and refusing, finally declassified (most of) their contract with the EU to the public today.
They are contractually bound to supply the EU their promised vaccins from all their factories, including those in the UK.
They are also contractually bound that no other contract can get in the way of supplying the EU, including contracts with the UK.

AstraZeneca topman Soirot was lying when he said earlier this week that AstraZeneca had no obligation to do more than 'try their best' to supply the EU. He was also lying when he suggested that the contract stated that the UK had priority over the EU.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/astrazeneca-groot-britannie-krijgt-geen-voorrang-op-eu-bij-levering-van-oxfordvaccin~bfd93dd5/

So yeah, I get that UK press and the people are upset if this means they will be getting vaccinated later.  But please be mad at AstraZeneca  and not at the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2021, 03:58:39 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

Turns out that the EU was right though. AstraZeneca, after being asked by the EU to do so repeatedly and refusing, finally declassified (most of) their contract with the EU to the public today.

What utter dishonesty. It pains me that it takes so many more words to explain why Ursula von de Leyen is full of shit than it takes for Ursula von de Leyen to spew shit.

There is no dispute that AstraZeneca included the two UK production sites in the vaccine supply chain; the country of origin is only of legal significance in whether or not AstraZeneca needs approval to start vaccine production for EU-bound vaccines in a non-EU country. If AstraZeneca wanted to produce EU-bound vaccines in the USA, for example, they would need to give written notice beforehand to the EU to proceed. The EU and AstraZeneca both agreed that vaccine production in the UK would not need prior-written notice.

The EU then makes the puzzling leap of judgement in asserting this gives them rights to seize British vaccines. And I'm not just talking about vaccines made in the UK, I'm also talking about the vaccines we've been buying from Belgium and the Netherlands; as far as the law is concerned here it doesn't matter if the vaccines are made in the UK, the EU or the USA, who purchased them owns them.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

They are also contractually bound that no other contract can get in the way of supplying the EU, including contracts with the UK.

Having read what has been released, I haven't found any clause stating ""hey are also contractually bound that no other contract can get in the way of supplying the EU, including contracts with the UK." This would have been a highly strange deal for AstraZeneca to make too, you know, considering they made their deal with the UK long before the EU signed a deal with them. So until the EU President publishes the document showing how AstraZeneca decided to cancel their contract with the UK in favour of the EU, I will maintain that the EU President is a thief of thieves.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

AstraZeneca topman Soirot was lying when he said earlier this week that AstraZeneca had no obligation to do more than 'try their best' to supply the EU. He was also lying when he suggested that the contract stated that the UK had priority over the EU.

Ursula von de Leyen accused Soirot of lying. However, if you read the contract, it's plain as day Soirot told the truth and Ursula von de Leyen was lying. (https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_302) She said there is a clause stating the EU takes priority over the UK. There isn't. She said there isn't a clause about "Best Reasonable Efforts," nor is there even a mention of the phrase "Best Reasonable Efforts" - but of course, there is. Not only is it referenced practically every clause, but it even has its own spot in the list of legal definitions:

Quote

1.9 "Best Reasonable Efforts" means
(a) In the case of AstraZeneca, the activities and degree of effort that a company of similar size with a similarly-sized infrastructure and similar resources as AstraZeneca would undertake or use in the development and manufacture of a Vaccine at the relevant stage of development or commercialization having regard to the urgent need for a Vaccine to end a global pandemic which is resulting in serious public health issues, restrictions on personal freedoms and economic impact, across the world but taking into account efficacy and safety; and
(b) In the case of the Commission and the Participating Member States, the activities and degree of effort that governments would undertake or use in supporting their contractor in the development of the Vaccine having regard to the urgent need for a Vaccine to end a global pandemic which is resulting in serious public health issues, restrictions on personal freedoms and economic impact, across the world.

Plain as day brazen EU lying.

Quote

5.1 Initial Europe Doses. AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU for distribution, and to deliver to the Distribution Hubs, following EU marketing authorizaation, as set forth more fully in section 7.1, approximately [redacted] 2020 [redacted] Q1 2021, and (iii) the remainder of the Initial Europe Doses by the end of [redacted].

5.4 Manufacturing Sites. AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Vaccine at manufacturing sites located within the EU (which, for the purpose of this Section 5.4 only shall include the United Kingdom) and may manufacture the Vaccine in non-EU facilities, if appropriate, to accelerate supply of the Vaccine in Europe; provided, that AstraZeneca shall provide prior written notice of such non-EU manufacturing facilities to the Commission which shall include an explanation for such determination to use non-EU manufacturing facilities.

More plain as day brazen EU lying. Clearly says AZ shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Vaccine.

Quote

18.7. Force Majeure. Neither the Commission nor the Participating Member States nor AstraZeneca shall be held liable or responsible to the other Party or be deemed to have breached this Agreement for failure or delay in fulfilling or performing any term of this Agreement when such failure or delay is caused by or results from events beyond the reasonable control of the non-performing Party, including fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, embargoes, shortages, epidemics, quarantines, war, acts of war (whether war be declared or not), terrorist acts, insurrections, riots, civil commotion, strikes, lockouts or other employment disturbances (whether involving the workforce or the non-performing Party or of any other person) acts of God or acts, omissions or delays in acting by any government authority (except to the extent such delay results from the breach by the non-performing Party or any of its Affiliates of any term or condition of this Agreement. Defaults of service, defects in equipment or material or delays in making them available, labour disputes, strikes and financial difficulties may not be invoked as force majeure, unless they stem directly from a relevant case of force majeure.

[snipped some more stuff because seriously I am typing this by hand]

The suspension of performance shall be of no greater scope and no longer duration than is necessary and the non-performing Party shall use Best Reasonable Efforts to remedy its inability to perform and limit any damage.

And of course the relevant part here is that the non-performing Party shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to remedy its inability to perform and limit any damage.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

He was also lying when he suggested that the contract stated that the UK had priority over the EU.

No, what Soirot said was that there is no priority clause at all in the EU-AZ contract. The EU told him to break the UK-AZ contract, which had been signed months before the EU began negotiating with AZ, and Soirot said no. What's more, is that Soirot stressed the only reason the UK production sites are working fine and the Belgian one is not, is that the UK production sites have been producing for longer, giving them more time to rapidly increase scale of production after working out all the faults. If the EU just gave the EU production sites enough time and stopped fucking raiding them, then they would take the same amount of time as the UK sites to reach these historic levels of production.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 12:02:44 pm

So yeah, I get that UK press and the people are upset if this means they will be getting vaccinated later.  But please be mad at AstraZeneca  and not at the EU.

I've gone over the legal aspects of the dispute, now I want to address the moral and political aspects.

THE GOOD AND THE BAD
The EU deliberately retarded European vaccine development as policy. They could've chosen to begin hasty development, at risk of procuring vaccines which had low efficacy or high risk. Now they have the option to begin procuring vaccines that other nations like the UK have tested on their populace, but the consequence of that is also that they are at the back of the queue. The UK has produced more German-developed vaccines than Germany, we've just began production of a French-developed vaccine last week, and just one hospital in my area of London has vaccinated more people last week than were vaccinated in the entirety of France or Germany.

This is not the fault of the UK, this is the fault of the EU. By ensuring no government could negotiate directly with vaccine production companies, all EU nations were dependent upon the EU to choose which vaccines, how much and when. This led to that obvious madness of the UK making more European developed vaccines than Europe. This situation should not exist, and would not exist if the EU did not exist. For Germany to break ranks and negotiate directly anyways whilst the Portuguese and Spanish die is just icing on top of the cake of hypocrisy.

How is this right?
This isn't even about AZ in particular. I'm just fucking astounded at how badly the EU has blockaded Europe, and then it has the bloody gall to turn to the country with the highest death rate in Europe and say "You know those vaccines? yeah the one you developed, made and bought before I even signed a deal? Yeah give them to me or I'll start a trade war with you.

THE UGLY
The majority of AstraZeneca vaccines that were destined for use in the UK are made in the UK. The UK has a very mature biotech industry and in 2019 was the #1 exporter of vaccines in the world (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-more-vaccines-than-any-other-g7-country). The EU doesn't have a single mechanism capable of stopping AZ or any other pharmaceutical company from delivering the vaccines they've promised to the UK. It is honestly chilling to think that if we didn't, the EU would be completely happy to kill us in exchange for a few months catch-up to a game they decided wasn't worth playing.

The EU's only teeth would be to halt the export of AZ vaccines made in the EU, which I expect they will do, because the EU enjoys making the mistake of being a team killing fucktard. By starting this trade war, the UK is not going to be able to export vaccines OR medicines to EU nations. This shit is going to get way out of hand, and it doesn't make any fucking logistical or political sense.

The UK is trying to boost production and availability everywhere. In the UK, in the EU, even across the world via COVAX. The doses the UK has already paid for will be used in the UK whether or not the EU agrees; if the EU seizes the vaccines we've purchased from EU sites, we'll be forced to halt exports to the EU, and we currently vastly outproduce the entire EU in vaccine production. It's not even a choice which outcome is better.

Option A: The EU puts its toys back in the pram and lets AZ actually set up vaccine production within the EU at a scale which will meet the historic demand of the corona vaccine. This only benefits the EU and has no disadvantages.

Option B: The EU starts a trade war with the UK over medicine and vaccines. The EU seizes AZ vaccines made in EU sites, but loses access to all UK medicine exports (for treating COVID), loses access to all UK manufactured vaccines they've ordered and after the UK's vulnerable pops are vaccinated, loses access to all the surplus vaccines the UK will be exporting.

People like me in the UK want to see to it that when we have finished vaccinating our vulnerable pops, we start exporting our vaccines worldwide so that other countries can vaccinate their vulnerable pops. It doesn't make sense to vaccinate a local healthy person before a foreign doctor. But your leaders come at us with such fucking venom, telling us they have to show us their weapons, what the actual fuck? Who do they think they are, threatening people who are helping them? How can I convince anyone here now that we should send vaccines to the EU?

*EDIT
It has begun. Speak of the devil, and the devil will decide to commit collective suicide on everyone's behalf. There is a clear option where everyone wins here and the EU would rather, to paraphrase again, fuck them, fuck us, fuck everyone, fuck the world (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-news-live-coronavirus-vaccine-travel-ban-b1794570.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 04:15:45 pm

I think the main EU frustration lies in the fact that they subsidized AstraZenica with 336 million euros in the early stages of their first clinical trials, to expand production capabilities, of which Astrazenica spent 200 million, and now they are not getting the agreed upon amount of doses (which are still classified, in the contract released by AstraZenica, the amount agreed was censored out.


But yeah.. What the EU is doing now, closing the Irish borders, that's just too silly even for standards of british slapstick humour.
Bad move.

Why this whole thing has devolved from a business dispute between the EU and a pharma company into a Brexit row is beyond me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2021, 04:48:23 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 04:15:45 pm

I think the main EU frustration lies in the fact that they subsidized AstraZenica with 336 million euros in the early stages of their first clinical trials, to expand production capabilities, of which Astrazenica spent 200 million, and now they are not getting the agreed upon amount of doses (which are still classified, in the contract released by AstraZenica, the amount agreed was censored out.

It's not about the money, it's about the time. Shit like this has never been done before, not on this scale.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 04:15:45 pm

But yeah.. What the EU is doing now, closing the Irish borders, that's just too silly even for standards of british slapstick humour.
Bad move.

I'm so worried, because I am certain the British response will be stupid too.

Quote from: martinuzz on January 29, 2021, 04:15:45 pm

Why this whole thing has devolved from a business dispute between the EU and a pharma company into a Brexit row is beyond me.

An EU President trying to touch UK vaccines?

It was inevitable

*EDIT

Quote

The UK has been left off a list of more than 120 countries exempted from tighter export restrictions on vaccines produced in the EU, in the latest twist in the bloc’s row with AstraZeneca over a shortage of doses.

Stella Kyriakides, the EU’s health commissioner, said the bloc was not protecting itself “against any specific country” but that it needed to ensure contracted pharmaceutical companies lived up to their promises.

The new export mechanism obliges all vaccine producers to inform national authorities of any intended exports to countries outside a lengthy list of exemptions, with member states empowered to reject applications if they believe EU supplies would be impacted.

The UK joins Russia and Turkey as countries within the vicinity of the EU that have been left off the exemption list. Further afield, the US and Canada are also not included.

Are you fucking kidding me

The EU is happy to export vaccines to:
-Israel
-Egypt
-Jordan
-Lebanon
-Libya
-Morocco
-Palestine
-Switzerland
-Syria
-Tunisia
-Armenia
-Azerbaijan
-Belarus
-Georgia
-Moldova
-Norway
-Ukraine

But draws the line at
-UK
-Turkey
-Russia

Way to turn friends into enemies. I'm so fucking disappointed in the EU, and my expectations were low to begin with. It's just killing people for no fucking reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 29, 2021, 05:46:57 pm

AFAIK the EU (or rather, the countries within the EU,) was happy to export vaccines while the pharma companies were up to the program. But the last two weeks have brought the double whammy of Pfizer's "6-dose" sheanigans alongside reduced production, and Astrazeneca trying to weasel out of its contract. I kind of can understand why national goverments are getting paranoid. The UK is also restricting exports of a number of covid-related goods (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/).
 I honestly think the vaccine row has very little to do with  Brexit and the UK and a lot with pharma companies' price gouging tactics.


I still think the whole western world has dropped the ball regarding pandemic management. In China they are not as worried about vaccine rollour because they got the outbreaks under control early on.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 29, 2021, 08:09:59 pm

You mean EXPORTED THE VIRUS TO MURRICA TO DO ARGALBARGL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2021, 02:36:08 pm

Starting from today, Hongkongese citizens with a British National Overseas passport can apply for a British visum.
About 5 million people can apply for this offer of the British government.
It is expected that about 300000 Hongkongese will make use of this exit strategy in the coming 5 years.
Since the new law came into effect in Hongkong in june last year, at least 7000 Hongkongese have fled to the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 01, 2021, 07:40:10 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2021, 02:36:08 pm

Starting from today, Hongkongese citizens with a British National Overseas passport can apply for a British visum.
About 5 million people can apply for this offer of the British government.
It is expected that about 300000 Hongkongese will make use of this exit strategy in the coming 5 years.
Since the new law came into effect in Hongkong in june last year, at least 7000 Hongkongese have fled to the UK.

'Look Sam! Wood-Elves! They're going to the harbour beyond the White Towers. To the Grey Havens.'
'They're leaving Middle-earth,' Sam said.
'Never to return,' Frodo said.
'I don't know why but it makes me feel sad.'

Meanwhile in Gottingen, Germany, huge unexploded WWII ordannce has been discovered. (https://www.dw.com/en/germany-4-world-war-ii-bombs-prompt-evacuation-in-g%C3%B6ttingen/a-56393748) Hopefully these ones get disposed of safely

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2021, 06:44:22 pm

The British telecom watchdog Ofcom has revoked the license of Chinese state broadcasting service CGTN, because the Chinese Communist Party controls it's content.
They are no longer allowed to broadcast in and from the UK.

With this punitive measure, the British government strikes right into the heart of the Chinese State broadcasting service's European endeavour; they had set up office in London in 2019 with the intention of it being their HQ.


Ofcom's decision to ban came in response to a complaint by human rights organisation Safeguard Defenders.
They based their complaint on the testimonies of 2 foreigners, who both claim to have made a false confession through torture in Chinese prisons. Their confessions were broadcasted repeatedly on CGTN, which according to CGTN, 'served common interest'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2021, 05:58:12 am

Oh damn. Back when I still owned a TV I used to watch dialogue with Yang Rui all the time. Even met one of the CGTN producers in China once. It's pretty blatantly CCP controlled so I'm surprised it took Ofcom this long to do something about its license though. Hard to say if there's any enterprise from PRC that is free from CCP machinations

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 05, 2021, 07:16:50 am

China is furious at the UK now. Damn hypocrites. Maybe they should first allow the BBC to broadcast in China before starting to whine.

I suggest the UK deploys their navy to bombard Hongkong with BBC sitcoms 24/7

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2021, 10:55:25 am

Oh no, now they'll double ban BBC

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 10, 2021, 08:34:14 am

EU was late to approve vaccines, von der Leyen admits
European Commission president acknowledges failures in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic. (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/10/eus-von-der-leyen-admits-to-vaccine-strategy-failings)

Quote

The European Union was too late to approve COVID-19 vaccines and overly optimistic regarding production, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen acknowledged, as she faces mounting criticism over vaccination drives on the continent.
Addressing politicians in the European Parliament in Brussels on Wednesday, von der Leyen said 26 million vaccine doses had been delivered and that by the end of the summer, 70 percent of adults in the 27-nation bloc should have been inoculated.
The EU has so far approved three vaccines – those produced by BioNTech/Pfizer, Moderna and Oxford-AstraZeneca, but roll-outs have been hampered by delivery delays, production bottlenecks and political blunders.
“We were late with the approval. We were too optimistic on mass production. And perhaps we were also too certain that the orders would actually be delivered on time,” she said. “In a way, science surpassed industry.”

Von der Leyen also admitted mistakes made in a bitter row last month over vaccines between the EU and the UK.
The bloc had intended to use emergency Brexit measures to restrict shipments of COVID-19 vaccines from crossing the Irish border into the UK but eventually retired the plan after it sent shockwaves through Northern Ireland, London and Dublin.
“I deeply regret that,” she said, adding that the European Commission would do its utmost to protect peace in Northern Ireland.

I am so surprised how she didn't expect that reaction from ROI, NI and UK

I never settle for at least but an apology is an apology, always welcome

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 01:24:07 pm

The Financial Times has proclaimed Amsterdam to be the winner of Brexit.
Since the Brexit, a lot of stock trading has moved from London to Amsterdam, which is now the new major stock hub of Europe.
In january, the Amsterdam stock markets traded for 9.2 billion euros in stocks per day, where the London stock markets dropped to 8.6 billion euros.

Since the Brexit, the amount of stock trade in Amsterdam quadrupled. Per day, 6.5 billion euros worth of stock trades moved from the UK to the Netherlands.

This is because of the Brexit, which forbids brokers based in the UK from trading any stocks from European companies, at least for now.

The EU and UK are still negotiating on this matter.  Stock analists however are already predicting that even when a deal is struck between the EU and the UK, the move of the financial sector to Amsterdam (and Paris) is most likely permanent.

Our country will profit greatly from this, for stock trades will need to pay tax in the Netherlands now.

Last year, the british government made 76 billion euros from taxing stock trade.  A large part of that sum will no longer go to UK coffers, but to dutch coffers.

Next to the stock market, swap contract traders and the market for state obligations have also left London and moved to Amsterdam.
The US Intercontinental Exhange has also announced it will move it's trade for CO2 emission rights (good for trades worth 1 billion euros per day) to Amsterdam as well.

It's quite fitting though. Amsterdam has the oldest stock exchange in the world (built 1606)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2021, 01:26:55 pm

Tulips

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on February 11, 2021, 01:40:59 pm

The GME fad is over, all my friends buy TUL.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 01:42:24 pm

Tulips are nice. Our real big seller is food though.

I still can't wrap my head around how we, a very tiny country is square meters, manage to be the 2nd largest food exporter in the world. We literally feed half of the world. We produce enough milk to supply whole frigging China.

I don't know if I am more baffled by how we manage to cram that many pigs, cows and crops on such a small area, or by how on earth other countries in the world don't manage to produce more food on their vast expanses of land.

I mean sure, we live on a fertile river delta with a nice mild climate. But still, we only have 41543 m2 of land available, of which over 2/3ds is covered by cities, villages and non-food industry. We are 237 times smaller than the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on February 11, 2021, 01:54:32 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 01:42:24 pm

I don't know if I am more baffled by how we manage to cram that many pigs, cows and crops on such a small area, or by how on earth other countries in the world don't manage to produce more food on their vast expanses of land.

Simply, because as long as you've got the milk situation covered, they'd rather do their own thing instead of worrying about things they can easily get from you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 01:56:42 pm

I guess that's part of it yes.

Just found a reasonably informative video on Dutch farming

https://youtu.be/5EkglVH6GM0

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2021, 02:13:53 pm

I was mostly mentioning tulips in relevance to it being the oldest stock market, wasn't that when the great tulip debacle happened?

Quote from: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 01:42:24 pm

I still can't wrap my head around how we, a very tiny country is square meters, manage to be the 2nd largest food exporter in the world.

The reason is, unfortunately, animal abuse

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 02:14:43 pm

As is all livestock industry everywhere around the world. We do have a lot of animal welfare regulations and standards.
Sadly those standards are still pretty low, but there's a lot of intensive livestock industry in other countries where standards are worse or non existent.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 11, 2021, 02:38:09 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 02:14:43 pm

As is all livestock industry everywhere around the world. We do have a lot of animal welfare regulations and standards.
Sadly those standards are still pretty low, but there's a lot of intensive livestock industry in other countries where standards are worse or non existent.

Slightly old data Going by anti-biotica usageas a measurement for animal health (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/antibiotic-use-in-livestock-in-europe?tab=map&time=2015) (more anti-biotica means worse living circumstances, as worse living conditions => worse health => more need to preemptively treat illness), not too bad compared to the rest of Europe actually. I expected worse given that one of the main correlatives with antibiotics usage is keeping the stock in too tight spaces and, as you mentioned, the Netherlands being a bit tight on space.

You can scroll the map over the years 2010-2015 (I chose 15 since it's the most current), it shows a great improvement in the Netherlands actually, possibly one of the biggest improvements in Europe (going only by glance). It's nice to see, hopefully it's been a continual trend afterwards too!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2021, 02:42:50 pm

We have been improving animal living conditions consistently since the '90s. I think the lastest numbers are that we managed to reduce antibiotics use between 2010 and 2020 by 60%.

https://dutchreview.com/news/innovation/second-largest-agriculture-exporter/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on February 12, 2021, 12:31:11 am

The hyperbole is stronk in this thread.

There are bans and then there are bans (not to mention bān's  :P).

https://au.news.yahoo.com/china-fires-back-at-bcc-after-broadcast-licence-revoked-195859234.html (https://au.news.yahoo.com/china-fires-back-at-bcc-after-broadcast-licence-revoked-195859234.html)

(Sure you can argue the toss, but it is hardly fitting to say my free speech is banned just because the Murdoch press doesn't promulgate it everywhere.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 12, 2021, 06:44:39 am

Are you saying you think the BBC is owned by Murdoch?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on February 12, 2021, 10:16:27 am

Quote from: scriver on February 12, 2021, 06:44:39 am

Are you saying you think the BBC is owned by Murdoch?

No.  I think only someone with severe sunlight imbalance could make that interpretation.  :P

(But on the other hand it is true that the BBC is closer to Murdoch, and closer to being owned by Murdoch, than the CCP.  ;D)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2021, 10:41:30 am

Russian foreign minister Lavrov has threatened that Russia will break every and all ties with the EU if sanctions are imposed because of Navalny's imprisonment.

"We don't want to seclude ourselves from the global community, but we need to be prepared for it. To secure peace, is to prepare for war".

This is the most threatening language that has come from Russia to the EU in many years.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2021, 11:03:52 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2021, 10:41:30 am

Russian foreign minister Lavrov has threatened that Russia will break every and all ties with the EU if sanctions are imposed because of Navalny's imprisonment.

"We don't want to seclude ourselves from the global community, but we need to be prepared for it. To secure peace, is to prepare for war".

This is the most threatening language that has come from Russia to the EU in many years.

That's a bad translation of si vis pacem, para bellum. They're saying "if you wish for peace, prepare for war." Which is to say they'd rather work with the EU but are prepared for an antagonistic relationship. Honestly I don't see what they were expecting; they've poisoned people on British soil and even German patience has its limits. The words are fairly tame but their actions betray a level of desperation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2021, 11:07:42 am

Political analists say it's just words. Russia is waaaaaay too dependent on trade with the EU to shut themselves off.
They think it's just desperation from the government, faced with way more pervasive unrest than they had expected.
Making a fist towards EU is an attempt to show their population that Russia is an autonomous world power that will not bow to anyone.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2021, 11:20:35 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2021, 11:07:42 am

Political analists say it's just words. Russia is waaaaaay too dependent on trade with the EU to shut themselves off.
They think it's just desperation from the government, faced with way more pervasive unrest than they had expected.
Making a fist towards EU is an attempt to show their population that Russia is an autonomous world power that will not bow to anyone.

I highly suspect in any event of an EU-Russia trade war, Belarus would suddenly and mysteriously become a significant EU trade partner

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 12, 2021, 12:14:17 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2021, 11:07:42 am

Political analists say it's just words. Russia is waaaaaay too dependent on trade with the EU to shut themselves off.
They think it's just desperation from the government, faced with way more pervasive unrest than they had expected.
Making a fist towards EU is an attempt to show their population that Russia is an autonomous world power that will not bow to anyone.

Well, we might be ordering sputniks by the dozen in a few weeks-months depending on how the other pharma companies pan out, so I'm kind of suspecting  LW is right.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2021, 05:27:26 am

It's Larry the cat's 10th birthday today (https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55937579)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2021, 11:06:32 am

Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Leave Lobbyers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2021, 11:27:15 am

French and Russians hold a joint burial after a mass grave from Napoleon's invasion was uncovered (https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2021/2/15/in-pictures-200-years-after-napoleon-defeat-russia-and-france-b)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 15, 2021, 02:40:25 pm

https://twitter.com/misszing/status/1361275878332841984 (https://twitter.com/misszing/status/1361275878332841984)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 01, 2021, 08:46:22 am

Former French president Sarkozy has been sentenced to 3 years prison time, of which 1 year is probational, for corruption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 01, 2021, 09:00:36 am

Hoeuvli Shiet, I hadn't even heard he was on trial.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

Yeah he was a bad man.

Apparently still popular in conservative circles, which speaks rather poorly of French conservatives.

Too bad he can serve his sentence under house arrest rather than in an actual jail, but at least they prosecuted him I guess.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2021, 06:06:42 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 01, 2021, 08:46:22 am

Former French president Sarkozy has been sentenced to 3 years prison time, of which 1 year is probational, for corruption.

Poor guy, sent to his luxury villa with his supermodel wife and ill-gotten gains, how will we manage

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on March 01, 2021, 09:22:47 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 01, 2021, 06:06:42 pm

Poor guy, sent to his luxury villa with his supermodel wife and ill-gotten gains, how will we manage
[/quote]

Or he might be in a decade or two when the appeals process has run its course. 
Probably best for us to make merry whilst he is trash in the media 'cause no telling if he'll actually serve his 'confined to mansion for a year' notional wrist slap.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 03, 2021, 07:08:21 am

The German Secret Service (BfV) has declared Germany's largest opposition party (88 out of 709 seats in the Bundestag), 'Alternative für Deutschland' to be an 'extreme right organisation that threatens the German constitution'. 
This means that they can now legally spy on, and use covert surveillance operations against the party's poiticians and members like they can with terrorists.

According to the BfV, they have made a file on the party thousands of pages long.  On the basis of what AfD politicians have said on party meetings, and on social media, they have concluded that the party is a threat to the democratic order.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on March 03, 2021, 01:28:45 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 03, 2021, 07:08:21 am

The German Secret Service (BfV) has declared Germany's largest opposition party (88 out of 709 seats in the Bundestag), 'Alternative für Deutschland' to be an 'extreme right organisation that threatens the German constitution'. 
This means that they can now legally spy on, and use covert surveillance operations against the party's poiticians and members like they can with terrorists.

According to the BfV, they have made a file on the party thousands of pages long.  On the basis of what AfD politicians have said on party meetings, and on social media, they have concluded that the party is a threat to the democratic order.

Without additional context this feels concerning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 03, 2021, 02:30:13 pm

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2021, 03:21:01 pm

Knife attack near me today, 8 people injured, some of them gravely. The police is investigating it as a possible terror attack.

If this happened in any of the big three this would have gotten special news break treatment and had the entire evening news designated to it. We barely get a minute.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 03, 2021, 04:13:10 pm

If it's any consolation, it did make front page news in my Volkskrant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2021, 05:54:06 pm

Thanks, but on second thought it was probably a little unseemly that people were hurt and that was my first reaction.

Late news didn't reveal much more, but phrasing made it seem like one or more of the victims has passed. Police originally did not suspect terrorism, but added the suspicion during the day, so it appear it may be because of something they've found during the day. Newspapers in Sweden don't usually publish identities very fast (at least not the ones I view) so not much about him is known to me yet besides him being 20 year old. According to this paywalled article (https://www.dn.se/sverige/polisen-soker-igenom-misstankta-mannens-lagenhet/) (that I accessed by quick cancelling of the page loading) he was registered in Sweden in 2018, and interviewed people from his surroundings say they think he was mentally in a very bad shape and allegedly in contact with social services. So I'm leaning towards a madness deed for now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2021, 07:12:26 pm

Doesnt make it non-terrorism. Thing about these knife attacks is that they are a very low cost form of terrorism. Just set up a webpage asking people to kill in the name of and if you reach enough people eventually some lunatic bordering a breakdown will take you up for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 04, 2021, 07:25:13 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 03, 2021, 07:12:26 pm

kill in the name of

Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 04, 2021, 02:53:07 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 03, 2021, 03:21:01 pm

Knife attack near me today, 8 people injured, some of them gravely. The police is investigating it as a possible terror attack.

If this happened in any of the big three this would have gotten special news break treatment and had the entire evening news designated to it. We barely get a minute.

Guardian news reporting it was a man with an axe, not a knife (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/man-armed-with-axe-injures-eight-in-possible-terrorist-attack-in-sweden)

Vikings are back?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 04, 2021, 03:08:30 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 04, 2021, 02:53:07 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 03, 2021, 03:21:01 pm

Knife attack near me today, 8 people injured, some of them gravely. The police is investigating it as a possible terror attack.

If this happened in any of the big three this would have gotten special news break treatment and had the entire evening news designated to it. We barely get a minute.

Guardian news reporting it was a man with an axe, not a knife (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/man-armed-with-axe-injures-eight-in-possible-terrorist-attack-in-sweden)

Vikings are back?

Doesnt make it non-terrorism. Thing about these axe attacks is that they are a very low cost form of terrorism. Just set up a webpage asking people to whack someone with an axe in the name of and if you reach enough people eventually some lunatic bordering a breakdown will take you up for it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 04, 2021, 03:13:53 pm

Knife has been the only thing I've heard so far. There could be a measure of police lingo involved because the police has a style of referring to anything sharp as "knife" in descriptions, even if it were to be a say machete or sword.

I just heard this being talked about on SvT news and the reporter said he's not heard anything about it "being a longer knife". So apparently there seem to be some discussion about it.

Also, I've realised that there was only seven victims (and I think all of them are alive). The eighth hospitalised person was the perpetrator himself (he was neutralised by a shot to leg).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2021, 05:23:25 am

Quote from: scriver on March 04, 2021, 03:13:53 pm

Knife has been the only thing I've heard so far. There could be a measure of police lingo involved because the police has a style of referring to anything sharp as "knife" in descriptions, even if it were to be a say machete or sword.

I just heard this being talked about on SvT news and the reporter said he's not heard anything about it "being a longer knife". So apparently there seem to be some discussion about it.

Also, I've realised that there was only seven victims (and I think all of them are alive). The eighth hospitalised person was the perpetrator himself (he was neutralised by a shot to leg).

Impressive if they managed to save everyone

In other news, EU caught in another fishing row and necolonialism row, this time instead of West African states or Somalia, now with Maldives, Sri Lanka and Kenya (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/05/eu-accused-of-neocolonial-plundering-of-tuna-in-indian-ocean)

Same problem really. EU fishing fleets using unsustainable practices in unsustainable quantities, depleting the stocks before moving onto the next waters. Once the Maldives, Sri Lanka and Kenya are succed dry we'll see in 5 years time Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia accusing the EU fisheries of neocolonialism. That is unless the Chinese fleets in South America don't make it a race to see who can overfish the most the fastest

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 08, 2021, 10:42:17 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2021, 05:23:25 am

Quote from: scriver on March 04, 2021, 03:13:53 pm

Knife has been the only thing I've heard so far. There could be a measure of police lingo involved because the police has a style of referring to anything sharp as "knife" in descriptions, even if it were to be a say machete or sword.

I just heard this being talked about on SvT news and the reporter said he's not heard anything about it "being a longer knife". So apparently there seem to be some discussion about it.

Also, I've realised that there was only seven victims (and I think all of them are alive). The eighth hospitalised person was the perpetrator himself (he was neutralised by a shot to leg).

Impressive if they managed to save everyone

In other news, EU caught in another fishing row and necolonialism row, this time instead of West African states or Somalia, now with Maldives, Sri Lanka and Kenya (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/05/eu-accused-of-neocolonial-plundering-of-tuna-in-indian-ocean)

Same problem really. EU fishing fleets using unsustainable practices in unsustainable quantities, depleting the stocks before moving onto the next waters. Once the Maldives, Sri Lanka and Kenya are succed dry we'll see in 5 years time Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia accusing the EU fisheries of neocolonialism. That is unless the Chinese fleets in South America don't make it a race to see who can overfish the most the fastest

Surprised we'd be willing to fish there, with all of the toxic wastes we've been dumping there for decades. I guess the problem with unsustainable fishing is that you have to keep going to the only places left with fish.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:21 am

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
We'll have to start eating people at some point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 08, 2021, 04:11:03 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:21 am

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
We'll have to start eating people at some point.

...start?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2021, 06:18:03 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:21 am

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
We'll have to start eating people at some point.

Invent edible bitcoin

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on March 08, 2021, 06:21:48 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2021, 06:18:03 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:21 am

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
We'll have to start eating people at some point.

Invent edible bitcoin

Bitecoin™

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 08, 2021, 06:40:40 pm

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hops on March 09, 2021, 01:33:41 am

why can't we have edible money anyways

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 09, 2021, 02:56:27 am

Quote from: hops on March 09, 2021, 01:33:41 am

why can't we have edible money anyways

Inflation would lead to obesity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ziusudra on March 09, 2021, 05:36:45 am

Quote from: MonkeyHead on March 09, 2021, 02:56:27 am

Quote from: hops on March 09, 2021, 01:33:41 am

why can't we have edible money anyways

Inflation would lead to obesity.

But, then people eating it would reduce the supply and offset the inflation. It'd be a self regulating system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 09, 2021, 05:48:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 08, 2021, 06:18:03 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:21 am

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
We'll have to start eating people at some point.

Invent edible bitcoin

Reintroduce the rice standard for money

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 09, 2021, 06:48:31 am

Heh, my government now has the plan to have people who enter the country by car get a mandatory corona test.  This is already the case for air and sea travellers.


I wonder how they are going to enforce that.. Do they have a secret time machine to bring us back 40 years to a time before Schengen, when we still had border controls?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 09, 2021, 07:00:31 am

Belgian police reports that they managed to hack encrypted messenger SKY ECC, an encrypted medium loved and used a lot by criminal organisations. They already managed to hack it two years ago, and have been using their access to build cases against crime syndicates.

This morning around 5am, Belgian police raided more than 200 locations that are suspected to be involved in organised crime, the largest police operation in the history of the country.

A few years ago, a joint team of French and Dutch police already managed to break the encryption of EncroChat, which also resulted in the arrest of many criminals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 09, 2021, 07:11:09 am

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 09, 2021, 12:23:46 pm

Dutch police were also in on the SKY hack, and, at the same time as the Belgian police, 5am this morning, raided 75 locations in the Netherlands.

30 suspects have been arrested and 28 guns confiscated.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 10, 2021, 05:59:44 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 09, 2021, 06:48:31 am

Heh, my government now has the plan to have people who enter the country by car get a mandatory corona test.  This is already the case for air and sea travellers.


I wonder how they are going to enforce that.. Do they have a secret time machine to bring us back 40 years to a time before Schengen, when we still had border controls?

They could do internal (nationally) road checks. Where they don't check at the national border, but within at various checkpoints. This technically is Schengen compliant

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 10, 2021, 06:33:42 am

I think it would be easier and quicker to design and build aforementioned time machine than it is to hire enough police patrols to do that job

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 10, 2021, 07:41:32 am

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 06:17:32 am

The population of Iceland is developing serious insomnia.

Since febuary, more than 50000 earthquakes, some as strong as 5 on the Richter scale, have been keeping them awake.
The cause of this is a large plume of magma wriggling in the gap between the American and European continental plates.

It is expected that sometime soon, a 'canyon eruption' will take place.


Hotdamn, that is about 1000 earthquakes per day

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 18, 2021, 09:10:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 06:17:32 am

The population of Iceland is developing serious insomnia.

Since febuary, more than 50000 earthquakes, some as strong as 5 on the Richter scale, have been keeping them awake.
The cause of this is a large plume of magma wriggling in the gap between the American and European continental plates.

It is expected that sometime soon, a 'canyon eruption' will take place.

Hotdamn, that is about 1000 earthquakes per day

That sucks. They already have to live with Brennivín and Hakarl. They deserve some good luck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 09:33:29 am

They hope the eruption will come soon and put an end to their shaky troubles.
The eruption is not expected to be very dangerous. Spectacular and pretty, but nowhere near as explosive as the volcano that erupted about a decade ago.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2021, 09:55:58 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 09:33:29 am

They hope the eruption will come soon and put an end to their shaky troubles.

Worded like this it sounds like a collective deathwish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 12:25:09 pm

Hey - I first wanted to type 'their shaky existence', that would have even been worse hahaha

EDIT: Dutch election results. It is terrifying. It was inevitable.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 18, 2021, 01:56:57 pm

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 18, 2021, 02:21:09 pm

What can I say... Crazy times
I think that half a rainforest was cut down just to make the paper for my election form. So many parties lol.


What really pisses me off though is that the major government party, the VVD, didn't get punished, just because they have a war-time prime minister.  Their party privatized healthcare and made budget cut after budget cut for the past 30 or so years, which led to understaffed ICUs and healthcare in general..

It's lke... A captain of a ship, that throws everyone overboard, and then afterwards gets patted on the back and promoted becaused he rescued a few of them from drowning.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 19, 2021, 09:12:44 am

"Good" news for women in the UK. (https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1371590164036911105) Wayne Couzens' coworkers will be there to watch over you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 19, 2021, 09:21:56 am

You mean the co-workers who found and arrested him within the week? That doesn't sound as negative as you seem to think it does.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 19, 2021, 09:43:32 am

Quote from: scriver on March 19, 2021, 09:21:56 am

You mean the co-workers who found and arrested him within the week? That doesn't sound as negative as you seem to think it does.

The title of the thread clearly says jokes, and I didn't know a better way to phrase it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 19, 2021, 06:21:49 pm

In Iceland, the volcano Fagradalsfjall, at about 40km of Reykjavik, is erupting. The skies above Iceland are coloured red.
The Icelandic government has shut down the airports as a preventive measure.
Icelanders are urged to not go towards the eruption zone. A team of geologists has been deployed with helicopters to measure the scale of the eruption.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 19, 2021, 09:45:47 pm

"don't approach the fierey death"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2021, 07:59:14 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 19, 2021, 06:21:49 pm

Icelanders are urged to not go towards the eruption zone.

this is my hole
it was made for me

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 18, 2021, 09:55:58 am

Worded like this it sounds like a collective deathwish

tfw no sun and all night makes northern hemisphere people as joyful as barrow wights

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 22, 2021, 10:36:50 am

Sounds like they've got...some kind of ideas.

https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1372208147729879044 (https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1372208147729879044)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Jopax on March 22, 2021, 12:09:12 pm

Eh, it's an attempt, and anything is better than pretending that the problem doesn't exist and won't get worse in the coming years, since the tide of illegals isn't showing any signs of slowing down.

Just last night, a truck going from Serbia to Slovenia, supposedly transporting paper, turned over in Croatia. It had 20 people stashed away on board, 4 died and  the rest were injured. And this is the big stuff that gets caught and written about. Most of it is kinda ignored by both the authorities and the media.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2021, 10:40:50 am

wtf I love Juncker now (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/25/jean-claude-juncker-criticises-eu-over-covid-vaccine-spat-with-uk)
Former commission president Juncker has surprisingly waded into the EU vaccine debate by pointing out the very stupid decisions the EU has been blundering through non-stop. This comes fresh after the Italians raided an AstraZeneca plant in Rome, seizing 27 million doses which were marked for export to Europe. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Former Prime Minister of the UK, David Cameron, to be investigated by the Lobbying watchdog group he founded for unlicensed lobbying (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/25/david-cameron-faces-investigation-into-possible-lobbying-law-breach)
LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
OI BRUV U GOT A LOICENSE FOR DAT CORRUPTION?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 25, 2021, 12:28:20 pm

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Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2021, 01:00:36 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on March 25, 2021, 12:28:20 pm

Just because JC sometimes blurts out some truth in a drunken stupor I wouldn't exactly deem him worthy of affection. I mean how to compute those statements with "when it gets serious you got to lie". Is he lying or does he consider the issue non-serious?

wtf I hate Juncker again

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on March 28, 2021, 07:57:46 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExfvGAEWQAI4YQA.jpg)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 28, 2021, 09:19:27 pm

Bit ballsy to say you want out the EU but only if you get to stay and don’t have to go back to the UK.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 29, 2021, 07:19:33 am

based expats

*EDIT
French CEO of AstraZeneca regrets working with the French (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 31, 2021, 07:34:19 am

In Rome today, an Italian naval officer and a Russian army officer / embassy employee have been apprehended when they were caught redhanded trading secret documents.

Italian press calls it 'the most serious episode since the Cold War'.
Italian state secrets and classified NATO intelligence have been sold.

The Italian officer has been arrested and charged with espionage, treason, and endangering state security. The Russian has been apprehended and is still in custody, but cannot be arrested because of diplomatic status.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 31, 2021, 10:27:06 am

Thought the Italians were going to call it "business as usual"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: thompson on March 31, 2021, 11:17:12 pm

Quote from: Iduno on March 28, 2021, 07:57:46 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExfvGAEWQAI4YQA.jpg)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude)

*sigh*

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 17, 2021, 04:23:01 pm

In 2014, Russia might have committed an act of war against the Czech Republic, a NATO member. (https://www.reuters.com/world/czechs-expel-russian-embassy-staff-pm-says-suspected-russian-link-ammunition-2021-04-17/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on April 19, 2021, 04:43:52 pm

It appears that someone forgot to send the Premier League football clubs the Brexit memo.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56795811 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56795811)

Quote

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham are among 12 clubs who have agreed to join a new European Super League (ESL).

It begs the question what continent the Not-Europe Europeans think they are (not) part of.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 19, 2021, 06:56:03 pm

EU =/ Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 19, 2021, 07:26:21 pm

Bit of an own goal too since pretty much everyone at those teams who aren’t executives has expressed great disdain at the prospect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on April 19, 2021, 07:49:34 pm

You know, I'd probably care more when people talk about the sanctity of the game or whatever if fthere wasn't so much money involved alreasy. Football on TV isalready like 90% sponsorships and 10% overtime (although take away the sponsorships on the shirts and around the match and it's 90% nothing happening and 10% overtime so...).

No shit they're trying to run it as like a modern big businesses and milk every penny they can by ensuring they're always included in the 'top league' matches that attract the biggest sponsorships (fans being the product they sell), that's literally all professional football has been for decades now. It's just at attempt to formalise what they've previously achieved by having the most money to throw around for players.

I tend to compare it to "We have always been at war with Eurasia", the borders may shift slightly, but nothing ever actually changes. Watch the football! It's gonna move! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MusyO7J2inM&ab_channel=BBC)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 19, 2021, 09:06:19 pm

Quote from: da_nang on April 17, 2021, 04:23:01 pm

In 2014, Russia might have committed an act of war against the Czech Republic, a NATO member. (https://www.reuters.com/world/czechs-expel-russian-embassy-staff-pm-says-suspected-russian-link-ammunition-2021-04-17/)

Whom amongst us doesn't live in a country that commits war crimes regularly?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2021, 04:02:11 am

The EU expresses extreme concern, and reports that Russia has now gathered over 100000 men at the Ukrainian border, much more than previously thought. Also more than how many troops were gathered just before they annexed the Crimea.

EU chief of foreign affairs Josep Borrell warns that a small spark can lead to escalation.
Civil airlines have been warned to stay clear of the area.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2021, 04:13:58 am

fuck yeah I got the May local elections coming and my borough has Count Binface running in it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on April 20, 2021, 10:46:47 am

sounds like a jocular jock, and dare i say, not (yet) sponsored by EU inc.; not that the buckethead competition (https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/the-kfc-buckethead-competition-is-here/video/96e13a5dc8c4a6b5e081ab2c52789224) is either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 20, 2021, 11:08:54 am

Dutch parliament told the dutch government to either force KLM to cancel it's 2 million bonus to top man Ben Smith, or they will cancel the corona support money.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 27, 2021, 01:13:20 pm

So Finland might actually shoot down the EU Corona fund. The Constitutional Committee has decided that a 2/3 majority in parliament is required.

Were a few MPs from the Center Party (somewhat against) and the National Coalition Party (somewhat against, voting blank) to not toe the party line, the fund might get shot down.

Just in time for the municipal elections. Hell, the government might even collapse as a result of this vote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2021, 06:01:43 pm

I just want to drop my two cents about not wearing masks and not isolating while vaccinated: my employing institution (the HSE) has issued two communiques to healthcare workers, to the effect that:

- Regardless of national guidelines, quarantines WILL be enforced for HCWs. Or rather, while they cant force you they recommend that you quarantine, and they can and will keep you away from the workplace for two weeks if you travel abroad.

- Regardless of anyone else´s statements to the contrary, they strongly encourage HCWs to continue social distancing and mask wearing even if they are fully vaccinated.


Make of this what you will but I think they are very sensible recommendations.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Vector on April 27, 2021, 08:40:17 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on April 27, 2021, 06:01:43 pm

- Regardless of anyone else´s statements to the contrary, they strongly encourage HCWs to continue social distancing and mask wearing even if they are fully vaccinated.

OK, sincere, not-bullshit question: is it OK to relax anything at all when you are vaccinated? Or should we wait until something happens WRT mass vaccination numbers to change at all?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 28, 2021, 04:58:01 am

Meanwhile in France, 20 retired generals, more than 100 high ranking officers, and thousands of soldiers have written a letter to Macron and the French government.  They say 'France is in danger' from 'deadly threats'.

According to them, the 'deadly threats' are 'antiracist that seed unrest, and even incite hatred between population groups', 'people who disdain our tradition and culture'. And by 'islamism and the hordes from the banlieux'.

They say that if the French government does not banish these threats soon, the worst will come to pass.
Then these threats will erupt into violence because of their laxity, and the army will be forced to intervene, and 'a civil war will end the chaos, and the government will be responsible for thousands of deaths.

This threat of a military coup comes exactly 60 years after the military coup attempt against general De Gaulle, in protest againt Algeria's independance.

Shortly after the letter was published, Marine Le Pen threw oil on the fire, by declaring solidarity with the petitioners.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/columns-opinie/franse-ex-generaals-waarschuwen-in-controversiele-brief-voor-burgeroorlog-tot-onvrede-van-defensie~bb973bb1/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56899765

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2021, 07:35:00 am

We had the same in Spain last year (I think it was last year?)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2021, 02:21:22 pm

Surprisingly enough, there is a massive diplomatic row between Turkey and the EU because Erdogan didn't have enough chairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofagate)

Throne war 2?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on April 28, 2021, 02:30:19 pm

In the game of thrones you either win or sit on the couch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 28, 2021, 02:50:22 pm

This is why you have a round table

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 28, 2021, 03:13:41 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on April 28, 2021, 02:21:22 pm

Surprisingly enough, there is a massive diplomatic row between Turkey and the EU because Erdogan didn't have enough chairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofagate)

Throne war 2?

Honestly, reading the wikipedia article doesn´t it feel more like there´s a foreign policy row between EU countries or factions? It reads as if the most vocally angry about this whole thing are some particular countries and parties, while other countries and parties not so much (including, interestingly, the two EU officials that were in the meeting).

So... more likely the whole sofagate thing is a proxy for previous disagreements about foreign relations with Turkey?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on April 28, 2021, 04:46:42 pm

I believe one of the EU officials is outspoken in claiming it was plain ol' sexism, and if she'd been wearing a tie and suit it wouldn't have been an issue. She then went on to claim it hurt some specific feelings, but I can't remember which. Which isn't me being snarky, I honestly can't remember what they were.


Edit: I guess I will take a stab at putting across my own opinion on von der Leyen's account.

There were two seats and two powers. I doubt it would have ruffled any feathers if she'd taken one of the seats, not her male colleague. If anyone was being sexist, perhaps it was him for assuming that he deserved to represent the EU more than her. Oh, and a Turkish male official was sitting on the sofa across from her, so sitting on a sofa doesn't appear to be an inherently sexist activity.

Anyway, I don't really read any sexism into Turkey's pretty silly blunder. No one rugby tackled her to stop her from sitting.

Though admittedly, I'm still looking for the full footage. The one I saw skips a bit of time, so I can't be 100% certain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on April 30, 2021, 06:32:34 am

For additional context, it's not just the seat thing but that the seat thing immediately followed Turkey pulling out of the 'Istanbul convention (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Convention)'.

In international politics where symbolic posturing is somewhat common for scoring points at home, pulling out of an international convention designed to protect women and then seeming to ensure that a powerful woman wasn't at the table looks awfully lot like one of those symbolic posturings, which is why it raises eyebrows. If that prior pulling out hadn't happened, this would probably not have been an issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 05, 2021, 04:35:02 pm

In response to French plans to blockade the port of Jersey, over a fishing rights row, the UK has sent two patrol ships of the Royal Navy to the island. Boris Johnson has promised the islanders to protect them from enemy actions.

Inb4 UK-France war

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on May 06, 2021, 03:12:18 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2021, 04:35:02 pm

Inb4 UK-France war

Oh not again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2021, 03:52:20 am

France has also dispatched a Naval vessel to Jersey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 06, 2021, 03:56:42 am

Hmmm.

Out of curiosity, if France is the escalator here, would the EU get involved in any armed conflict?

Is it even legal for France to engage in military action over this?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2021, 04:06:30 am

The EU supports France's stance on the matter.
It is unlikely a miltary confrontation will follow. It is possible that the UK will board and arrest fishermen though.

It is also not clear who is the escalator here. France claims that the UK is making claims that are not part of the Brexit agreement.

(In perspective, what it is all about. It is about a grand total of 17 fishermen that lost their rights to fish in the Jersey waters, but claim that they cannot be denied that right because of historical rights. France threatened to cut off the electrical power from Jersey, and the fishermen announced they will still come and fish and blockade the port in Jersey waters. The latter prompted the UK to send the Navy, which in turn prompted France to do so as well)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 06, 2021, 05:13:03 am

EU: *makes fun of Brits for not anticipating the changes not being in the EU any longer would mean*
Also EU: what do you mean we can't go on fishing here like the UK being in the EU meant we could D:

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2021, 05:42:44 am

What complicates matters is that Jersey has a status aparte, in that they are not a part of the UK, and free to determine their own fishing rights.
According to those, French fisherman should still be allowed to fish there, but the UK disapproves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on May 06, 2021, 06:03:46 am

From skimming through a few articles I gather that the permits were not granted as part of the longer fishing rights conflict between France and the UK following Brexit. So presumably the Jersey government was pressured/co-opted into the UK's post-brexit policies, despite not being part of the EU to begin with? The articles aren't very clear on the details of the "start" of the conflict as they focus on the escalation. I guess armed patrol vessels are more interesting to write about than how the permits were (not) granted currently and previously, and by whom.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2021, 06:12:49 am

Pretty much, yeah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 06, 2021, 03:33:57 pm

The French fishermen have stopped blockading the port of Jersey and have returned to France, stating that this matter should be resolved by politicians on land rather than by ships on the sea.
The UK has also recalled it's warships to port.

The French Navy remains near the Jersey waters.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 06, 2021, 03:43:44 pm

Next week on Jersey Shore: the Germans get bent out of shape over straight bananas!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 10, 2021, 04:27:12 am

Quote from: delphonso on May 06, 2021, 03:12:18 am

Quote from: martinuzz on May 05, 2021, 04:35:02 pm

Inb4 UK-France war

Oh not again.

So classic, we ought to have a remake every 4-4 years

Quote from: voliol on May 06, 2021, 06:03:46 am

From skimming through a few articles I gather that the permits were not granted as part of the longer fishing rights conflict between France and the UK following Brexit. So presumably the Jersey government was pressured/co-opted into the UK's post-brexit policies, despite not being part of the EU to begin with? The articles aren't very clear on the details of the "start" of the conflict as they focus on the escalation. I guess armed patrol vessels are more interesting to write about than how the permits were (not) granted currently and previously, and by whom.

Jersey's a crown dependency, which means they do their own thing in all respects besides money (they use the Jersey pound, which is just the GB Pound with their own sign on it. Similar to how Eurozone nations put their own heads and tails on their eurocoins) and foreign policy (Jersey is aligned with UK foreign policy). Jersey is one of the channel islands that is Francomalvinasing every year or so, in that the French don't like the fact that Jersey is close to the French coast. Makes managing fishing disputes a regular pain in the arse.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2018, 04:34:49 pm

SCALLOP WARS (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45337091)

Not the first - not the last. The French are claiming this time that they're allowed to ignore UK law because they weren't notified of the technical details of the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation agreement beforehand. Which is bizarre to say the least; if the EU decides not to inform the French that's on them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 10, 2021, 07:47:43 am

Thought the claim was that Jersey added extra requirements that the French argue weren't in the agreement, and those extra requirements deprived some of their fishing boats the right to fish which they claim they should have had under the agreements text? So it's not that the EU didn't notify the French, it's that the UK/Jersey didn't notify the EU to notify the French.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57011376

Quote

The boats were protesting against new fishing rules - introduced last week by the Jersey government under the UK-EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA) - which require French boats to show they have a history of fishing in Jersey's waters. But it has been claimed additional requirements were added without notice.

French authorities say "new technical measures" had not been communicated to the EU, rendering them "null and void".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 11, 2021, 04:56:19 pm

The Finnish parliament will be voting on the EU Corona fund today. A 2/3's majority is required for it to pass. The National Coalition Party has retracted its party whip; the party members are free to vote however they see fit.

Here's hoping the fund gets voted down. I don't want my country to be become a guarantor for other countries, nor do I want to expand the powers of the EU.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 11, 2021, 06:40:37 pm

I applaud anti-federalism on general principle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 12, 2021, 04:25:19 am

Aaand they're rescheduling the vote. Should now be on Friday or later next week.

Apparently they held the debate until four in the morning and still weren't finished.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 12, 2021, 07:44:06 am

Quote from: da_nang on May 11, 2021, 04:56:19 pm

The Finnish parliament will be voting on the EU Corona fund today. A 2/3's majority is required for it to pass. The National Coalition Party has retracted its party whip; the party members are free to vote however they see fit.

Here's hoping the fund gets voted down. I don't want my country to be become a guarantor for other countries, nor do I want to expand the powers of the EU.

What's the EU corona fund? From the name I imagine it's a Corona damage repair fund for EU countries but what are the specifics exactly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 12, 2021, 10:21:13 am

It's the EU Corona recovery fund + long-term budget. (https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/recovery-plan-europe_en) The important detail is the new Own Resources, that will allow "the European Commission - on behalf of the European Union – [to] borrow on the markets at more favourable rates than many Member States and redistribute the amounts." Effectively EU bonds, backed by the union and new tax powers. They call it "temporary", but nothing is more permanent than "temporary".

What will inevitably happen when one of the member countries fail to pay their dues is that the other member countries will pick up the slack in either raised taxes or raised member fees (which in turn raises taxes). Member countries will effectively become guarantors and have less control over their own fiscal policies and treasuries.

What this is is more federalization and a fiscal transfer system. They're trying to turn the EU into a USE, effectively ending the independence of my country.

And mind you, our PM had the infinite wisdom of "negotiating" this deal without consulting with the parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 14, 2021, 11:04:43 am

Classic way to make euroscepticism; gov ministers giving away sovereignty without asking their own electorate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 15, 2021, 04:01:00 pm

So after a few days of filibustering and procedural shenanigans, we're finally having a vote on Tuesday.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Duuvian on May 16, 2021, 01:49:01 am

I don't know the details, but wouldn't member states be more likely to default if they had to issue their own bonds rather than the EU? I assume the reasoning is they can't borrow at as favorable interest rates as the EU as a whole. Then you'd have to either bail them out then or leave them to face the economic consequences, which correct me if I'm wrong, led last time to a sudden increase in far right nationalist parties' success in Europe the last time it happened? Golden Dawn and all that austerity?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 16, 2021, 04:36:32 am

I'd rather default than add another shackle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Duuvian on May 16, 2021, 05:36:26 am

I apologize for not understanding; does your country achieve better interest rates than the EU? Will it receive less than it puts in or something? Are you against higher spending in general or specifically on this as a principle? IIRC Europe faced decisions the last recession and chose austerity, and in addition to the gains made by some political parties I mentioned above which seemed to be worrisome at the time to the Euro public, also took longer to climb out of the recession, though it has been many years and my memory likely deceives me in ways due to that as well as my general ignorances of the details of this proposal and European politics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 16, 2021, 06:33:45 am

This is about principle. I do not support federalization into some kind of USE, towards which this fund would be another brick in the foundation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 17, 2021, 04:23:26 am

Quote from: Duuvian on May 16, 2021, 05:36:26 am

I apologize for not understanding; does your country achieve better interest rates than the EU? Will it receive less than it puts in or something? Are you against higher spending in general or specifically on this as a principle? IIRC Europe faced decisions the last recession and chose austerity, and in addition to the gains made by some political parties I mentioned above which seemed to be worrisome at the time to the Euro public, also took longer to climb out of the recession, though it has been many years and my memory likely deceives me in ways due to that as well as my general ignorances of the details of this proposal and European politics.

As with all things, people are worried that EU money comes with strings attached; for example majority of Italians would go apeshit at the EU if forced to accept austerity measures in exchange for bailout money (https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2021/04/26/opposition-to-austerity-outweighs-support-for-the-euro-in-italy/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 17, 2021, 08:23:26 am

Austerity didn´t work too well the first time around. And yeah, there´s almost certainly going to be a round two.

Likely no real alternatives, the way things are, either. It´s either the shitty decaf bailout with strings that nobody will like for one reason or another, or a domino effect with all the major economies crashing.

Back home the way austerity mark II is shaping up is a massive tax ramp-up. VAT tax is coming up, public roads will have tariffs, self-employment quotas are going up....  they probably won´t cut down healthcare workers wages like they did the first time around because they´re beginning to struggle to get them as it is (and the way things are going I´d not be surprised if in 10-20 years they were in the same dire straits as the UK and Ireland as far as HCWs are concerned), but they´re are not increasing them a lot either.


I´m very glad I have a perm post because I foresee that the next five years are going to be pretty terrible for the worldwide economy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on May 17, 2021, 09:01:24 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 17, 2021, 04:23:26 am

Quote from: Duuvian on May 16, 2021, 05:36:26 am

I apologize for not understanding; does your country achieve better interest rates than the EU? Will it receive less than it puts in or something? Are you against higher spending in general or specifically on this as a principle? IIRC Europe faced decisions the last recession and chose austerity, and in addition to the gains made by some political parties I mentioned above which seemed to be worrisome at the time to the Euro public, also took longer to climb out of the recession, though it has been many years and my memory likely deceives me in ways due to that as well as my general ignorances of the details of this proposal and European politics.

As with all things, people are worried that EU money comes with strings attached; for example majority of Italians would go apeshit at the EU if forced to accept austerity measures in exchange for bailout money (https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2021/04/26/opposition-to-austerity-outweighs-support-for-the-euro-in-italy/)

As they should. Austerity is always designed to benefit the people in power at the expense of the poor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 18, 2021, 07:01:05 am

The Finnish Parliament has voted to approve of the Corona fund with a mere margin of two votes: 134-57.

Two voted blank, six weren't present.

FFS, stop chaining us all irrevocably.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 18, 2021, 07:37:40 am

Well that's gonna be another temporary EU measure which will last in perpetuity

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 10:32:27 am

I mean, an explicit part of the founding idea of the EEC was to "preserve peace and liberty and to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe", basically be a stepping stone towards the union of European countries. Joining it was signing up to that vision.

Heck, even Winston Churchill himself went as far as to call for the formation of the United States of Europe after WW2.

My main critique of the EU has been that since the UK and more Nordic countries joined they've been moving away from that goal (which I think a good one) towards a more awkward middle ground of deliberately keeping themselves short of being federated. Would be nice for it to become like, the actual point of the EU to be a stepping stone in forming the USofE.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 18, 2021, 10:37:52 am

Fuck no, I like democracy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 10:39:20 am

Because any country bigger than the UK or composed of federated states isn't a democracy? Or should we also seek to return to the traditional kingdoms of the UK and bring back Mercia and Wessex? Heck, flowing power from Westminister into those state-level regions and making the UK an explicit federation arguably wouldn't be a bad thing.

How is a United States of Europe in itself undemocractic? If the disagreement is how to structure it, that's a different issue. Part of explicitly federating would be deciding where the State vs Federal power lines get drawn afterall. If anything, making it explicitly federated would require drawing those lines into a constitution a lot and so help prevent the flow of more federal power than what constitution specifies away from the member states.

You may dislike that the current structure of the EU puts the Commission as nominated by State Representative's and then confirmed by People's Representatives, who then propose legislation that is then confirmed by People's Representatives, rather than directly from People's Representatives. But to be a member of the EU you have to be a democracy, so it's still People's Representatives via the State, so it's still a democratic system. It just puts nationally elected State above regionally elected People, which is probably a necessity when you're deliberately trying to avoid being an outright federation.

So yeah, I've never got the "EU is not democratic" argument. "I don't like the form of democracy it uses" is a valid one sure, but if anything I think a lot of that comes from them structured to avoid being federated from the start.

If the USA changed so that rather than having a President elected by country-wide election the position was voted on by the chamber of each State, who was decided by majority control of that state, that would still be a democratic system. And if it's not, pull on that thread and it becomes pretty clear the only thing that could be counted as democracy is Direct Democracy in which all citizens can both propose and vote on legislature and...that wouldn't work for populations above a dozen or so.

I mean, long term I think countries should declare "United States of Earth" as an end-goal for the UN. But I reckon as a species we either will form a federated elective from all nations or die in nuclear fire, and I'd like to avoid the latter. But maybe that's for the "unpopular opinions" thread. (That doesn't mean I think we should do it now, just that part of evaluating decisions should be "Does it take us closer to this ideal that we hold?" and if the answer is "no" that's a mark against that course of action that needs to be overcome by both the short-term benefits whilst ensuring future repealability)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 18, 2021, 12:41:14 pm

Democracies only function when they're close to the people. They need fraternity between the citizens and answerability from the leadership, and the further the government moves from the people, the less of that you have. Without this you end up with an unfunctional or unjust democracy, making the entire point of democracy void.

For example, if Sweden were to join a hypothetical USE, we would lose all ability to govern ourselves. At that point "democracy" would be identical to dictatorship to us. All the power to rule us would in the hands of complete strangers who do not know nor care about any of us, our customs, culture, or history. Why should we be governed by the whims, customs, and opinion of people from a completely different part of the world?

Quote from: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 10:39:20 am

Or should we also seek to return to the traditional kingdoms of the UK and bring back Mercia and Wessex?

I'd start by granting Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and Man independence, then separate England into north, south, and London.

Quote

I mean, long term I think countries should declare "United States of Earth" as an end-goal for the UN.

Why? Whose rules is it going to follow? That just seems like an imperialists wet dream to me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on May 18, 2021, 01:18:51 pm

Quote from: scriver on May 18, 2021, 12:41:14 pm

Democracies only function when they're close to the people. They need fraternity between the citizens and answerability from the leadership, and the further the government moves from the people, the less of that you have. Without this you end up with an unfunctional or unjust democracy, making the entire point of democracy void.

For example, if Sweden were to join a hypothetical USE, we would lose all ability to govern ourselves. At that point "democracy" would be identical to dictatorship to us. All the power to rule us would in the hands of complete strangers who do not know nor care about any of us, our customs, culture, or history. Why should we be governed by the whims, customs, and opinion of people from a completely different part of the world?

You're bringing up good points, and I mostly agree, but also no. "all ability to govern ourself" is an hyperbole and you know that. You should also know that all people have some things in common. With Europe it's things like "people who use this water to fish" and "people who utilize the europe-wide highways" and "people who have human rights", so the EU (and theoretical USE) can be of use when discussing those.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2021, 02:09:29 pm

Quote from: voliol on May 18, 2021, 01:18:51 pm

You should also know that all people have some things in common.

Endless experience has proven this a rank falsehood.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on May 18, 2021, 02:57:13 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2021, 02:09:29 pm

Quote from: voliol on May 18, 2021, 01:18:51 pm

You should also know that all people have some things in common.

Endless experience has proven this a rank falsehood.

Some things don't need to be many, I'm talking about e.g. "all people need to eat", and "all people need clean water", and "all people need to not be worked to death". Human necessities, basically. If you accept that these exist you can have federal organs ensuring member states do provide these needs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 18, 2021, 03:47:37 pm

Quote from: voliol on May 18, 2021, 01:18:51 pm

You're bringing up good points, and I mostly agree, but also no. "all ability to govern ourself" is an hyperbole and you know that.

No, it isn't. Not to any extent that matters.

You should also know that all people have some things in common. With Europe it's things like "people who use this water to fish" and "people who utilize the europe-wide highways" and "people who have human rights", so the EU (and theoretical USE) can be of use when discussing those. (http://You should also know that all people have some things in common. With Europe it's things like "people who use this water to fish" and "people who utilize the europe-wide highways" and "people who have human rights", so the EU (and theoretical USE) can be of use when discussing those.)

And, with Europe, things that isn't are things like the all man's right, the principle of openness, or abortion rights.

As for fishing and things like it, it isn't a matter for us Swedes or Finns who fishes in the Mediterranean, and it's no matter for France or the UK what fishing is done in the Baltic. Moving the discussion to the table of the EU simply gives the populaces less influence and favours corporations and lobbyists.

It's like when the EU banned snuff -- it should have been a matter only for the countries whose custom it is to use it. Yet the entire business was banned by countries to whom it had no bearing on. Right now here in Sweden we have the EU trying to force us into allowing poisonous mines in our ground water catchments. What do continentals care about what happens to our drinking water? Why should anyone be able to make decisions about our drinking water than us, the ones who drink it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 06:39:15 pm

Moving resource access conflict resolution to the EU also creates a platform for reconciling differences between member states that doesn't involve armed conflict. Which is kinda the point, a major reasoning behind the EEC and EU was to provide such a platform to prevent another Europe-wide War after we'd already had two of them one right after each other (and lots of smaller ones before-hand, Europe hasn't been this peaceful since Pax Romana).

Which is kinda the thing, smaller independent nations (democracies or not) will eventually go to war with their neighbours. A cross-nationally backed platform that can make rulings based on common law and wider elective representation acts as a significant barrier to that. A trade collective that makes all those nations interdependent on each other helps too.

(Also if we split the UK into regions north/south/london would be better done as bringing a modified form of the Heptarchy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy), the midlands are also culturally distinct from the North and South afterall. But if they were independent countries with closed borders and military...well, I'd not put good odds on them staying peaceful for more than a generation post-split).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 08, 2021, 11:50:39 am

Following a verdict by the EU court last week, which forces Poland to shut down a brown coal mine for not meeting EU standards, the Czech republic now asked the EU court in Luxembourg to fine Poland with 5 million euros per day that the mine isn't shut down yet.

For now, Poland refuses to comply with the verdict. More than 3% of it's national electricity net depends on the mine, as well as 60000-80000 jobs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 10, 2021, 05:37:53 am

Begun, the sausage wars have (https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-urges-eu-move-post-brexit-trade-with-nireland-2021-06-08/)

Quote from: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 06:39:15 pm

(Also if we split the UK into regions north/south/london would be better done as bringing a modified form of the Heptarchy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy), the midlands are also culturally distinct from the North and South afterall. But if they were independent countries with closed borders and military...well, I'd not put good odds on them staying peaceful for more than a generation post-split).

It'd leave us well vulnerable to invasion by the Danes. Or the Dutch. Not too bad all things considered

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 10, 2021, 08:12:54 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on May 18, 2021, 06:39:15 pm

Moving resource access conflict resolution to the EU also creates a platform for reconciling differences between member states that doesn't involve armed conflict. Which is kinda the point, a major reasoning behind the EEC and EU was to provide such a platform to prevent another Europe-wide War after we'd already had two of them one right after each other (and lots of smaller ones before-hand, Europe hasn't been this peaceful since Pax Romana).

Which is kinda the thing, smaller independent nations (democracies or not) will eventually go to war with their neighbours. A cross-nationally backed platform that can make rulings based on common law and wider elective representation acts as a significant barrier to that. A trade collective that makes all those nations interdependent on each other helps too.

I must have missed this post when it was posted, so here is my answer:

The entire "it leads to peace" argument is nonsense, as proven by the fact that EU countries have not gone to war with non-EU European countries either. Sweden has been at peace for 200 years, the majority of those without the EU. Sweden and Denmark has the world record in most amount of wars between nations. If we can stop waging wars, then so can other people. I would say that the peace post-WW2 comes down more to a change in diplomatical and governmental attitude than the economical agreements, and that most of Europe's countries economical interests since then lie in the non-European world.

In a USE, any conflict worth going to war over would still exist, it would just enable the wolves -- France and Germany -- to steamroll opposition with legalities and bureaucracy. Conflicts arise because one part wants to force a second part to give them something they want. Removing people's ability to defend themselves from having things taken from them is not a good thing just because of a shallow "but look no war" viewpoint.

Furthermore, an USE would only lead to a more powerful country, and it is powerful countries that are the most likely to start and wage wars. The USA is once again the perfect example of why an USE would be terrible. It doesn't lead to peace. It leads to constant war.

And lastly, fuck the Romans. They were a bunch of genocidal imperialist oppressors and should not be idealised or aimed to imitate. The Roman Empire was peaceful because they had emptied vast amounts of land of people by enslaving and killing their inhabitants and because every single person living in it was under threat of being killed. Peace at the point of a speartip is not peace. "Pax Romana" is the perfect example of why "peace always the best" is a superficial view, actually. It is the view of the capitalist, the oppressor, and the one who gets to lord over others.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on June 10, 2021, 09:05:09 am

Except the argument isn't "peace is always best" but "What's a good balance of rights vs benefits  that can deliver on what I would view as the four goals: no wars, continued scientific development, increasing and guaranteeing human rights, and better living conditions". It's an optimization min/max problem at heart, and those things will require global infrastructure to keep them growing.

We all exchange liberty for peace all the time: It's generally agreed upon that citizens owning enriched uranium is a bad idea. It's about finding that optimal balance point of local governance vs global governance that delivers on those goals.

I wasn't saying that Roman rule was good, just giving an idea of how violent Europe has historically been that it gets measured in millenia (I had written a whole paragraph where I explained that the Pax Romana comparison isn't even true because of rebellions and rule at spear and all but decided it got lost too much in the weeds so removed it).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 10, 2021, 11:28:47 am

Quote from: scriver on June 10, 2021, 08:12:54 am

And lastly, fuck the Romans. They were a bunch of genocidal imperialist oppressors and should not be idealised or aimed to imitate. The Roman Empire was peaceful because they had emptied vast amounts of land of people by enslaving and killing their inhabitants and because every single person living in it was under threat of being killed. Peace at the point of a speartip is not peace. "Pax Romana" is the perfect example of why "peace always the best" is a superficial view, actually. It is the view of the capitalist, the oppressor, and the one who gets to lord over others.

Quis crucifige quod sordida nordmannie!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 10, 2021, 01:15:00 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on June 10, 2021, 09:05:09 am

Except the argument isn't "peace is always best" but "What's a good balance of rights vs benefits  that can deliver on what I would view as the four goals: no wars, continued scientific development, increasing and guaranteeing human rights, and better living conditions". It's an optimization min/max problem at heart, and those things will require global infrastructure to keep them growing.

We all exchange liberty for peace all the time: It's generally agreed upon that citizens owning enriched uranium is a bad idea. It's about finding that optimal balance point of local governance vs global governance that delivers on those goalsq

Still sounds like straight imperialism to me. "We need to take away your ability to govern yourself so we can protect your rights".

This isn't a "minmax problem". This is you assuming you know what is best for every people in the world, and that every people in the world want what you want. This is you wanting to take away people's ability to govern themselves in their own way because you think your way is better.

Taking away peoples' ability to rule themselves do not protect rights, it endangers them. Taking the rule of Sweden from our hands and putting it in the hands of France and Germany do not protect our rights, it protects German and French interests. It puts our rights at the mercy of people who do not care about us and only cares for how best they can gain from us. See for example of the EU currently trying to force Sweden to allow toxic mining in our drinking water catchments. Who protects our right to clean, drinkable water when the decision over it is in the hands of people who are not beholden to the people the decision will affect?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 10, 2021, 02:19:48 pm

leones meus diliget tuum in ano est in amphitheatro Flaviano!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 10, 2021, 04:20:58 pm

People called chairman go on the house!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 11, 2021, 07:18:05 am

I propose we all subject Europe to rule by the Khanate living incarnation of Yama. By living under the rule of the divine Khan of Khans we optimise scientific development with captured scientists, we guarantee human rights as all are equal under heaven, and the divine Khan of Khans knows how to govern you better than you do because sacred wisdom flows through their chakras

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on June 12, 2021, 05:24:03 pm

Pretty sure "a global federated democracy" is like...the opposite of divine rule by a khanate?

As technology develops and supply chains become more complicated, ever increasingly big regions by neccessity need to work with other regions and specialize their outputs to fulfil those supply chains. That's been the historic trend, I don't see why it wouldn't/isn't currently continuing to scale to countries as bigger regions.

And then you hit a point of scale where it becomes prudent to have a position whose main concern isn't the needs of individual regions only (and so puts those needs over other regions) but the overall system.

Maintaining each region adequately is still part of that decision making process, but it allows for oversight whose mental arithmetic doesn't seek to only maximize one area and for the decisions to be made that can only have an impact when made at a system-wide level.

A federated system allows each region a degree of autonomy, whilst still allowing a democratic process to hold accountable those who need to make the decisions for the overall system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 13, 2021, 04:32:27 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on June 12, 2021, 05:24:03 pm

Pretty sure "a global federated democracy" is like...the opposite of divine rule by a khanate?

Which is why it needs some workshopping before we implement it worldwide

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 21, 2021, 04:52:37 am

The Swedish government just collapsed with the riksdag voting no confidence for the state minister.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 21, 2021, 09:48:26 am

A great victory for the social economic left! I can only approve.

(The government fell because left wing opposition strongly opposed the government's plan to make it easier for landlords to increase rent prices)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 21, 2021, 01:09:25 pm

It's only a great victory if the undesired policy does not come to pass

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 21, 2021, 04:31:33 pm

It's a victory insofar as the left party being able to show they are not toothless. Perhaps less so if it means a right-conservative government forming but even then there's the opportunity to pull the social democrats leftward.

I can't imagine the policy being pushed now by anyone but the centre party (i.e. neoliberals claiming to be centrists), as the even among right-wing voters it is unpopular[1]. The reason it was pushed to begin with was that after 4 months of no government in 2018 the social democrats were able to form a government with the green party, supported by the centre party and liberals (and left party), with the free pricing of rents in new buildings (but eventually also renovated ones i.e. all rents) being one of the many (73) concessions.
Another concession was that the left party were allowed no concessions, which they begrudgingly accepted as long as the rent policy did not advance.

[1]https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/valjarnas-dom-over-regeringens-politik-ratt-sprakkrav-och-mobilforbud-fel-marknadshyror/

Spoiler: Image:The percentages of polled voters who think free pricing of rents in new buildings is GOOD. (click to show/hide)

(https://static.cdn-expressen.se/images/c8/2c/c82c8c5aa1b4408e8e9cff717dadfb58/annan/640@60.jpg)
In order:
All,
moderates/christian democrats (liberal-conservative),
centre party/liberals (liberal),
social democrats (centre-left),
green party/left party (green/progressive, leftist - these two having the same bar is pretty weird),
Sweden democrats (nationalist-conservative)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 21, 2021, 05:27:32 pm

Yeah, the Environment Party (green party) aren't particularly left wing. They're slightly leftist and extremely bourgeois liberals, not socialists by any means. I can only assume they were put together with the Left Party to either make it look like support for the change is bigger in the Left Party or (more likely) to make it look like support for the change is less in the Environment Party than it actually is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 21, 2021, 06:21:00 pm

The article has multiple questions, with the same parties groupings in all of them. Someone on reddit pointed out that the journalists were probably just lazy and combined "similar" parties, as the sample size for small parties would've been too small for their own bar (1015 people in total, ~40 green party voters if proportional to the 2018 election results).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 22, 2021, 02:38:47 am

Why are clovers the symbol of center parties? We've got the same deal in Norway.

Is your Left party also a spineless non-entity that gives mouth service to leftist ideals while actually furthering the conservative agenda? Man, we really are neighbors...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on June 22, 2021, 04:36:01 am

Not really. The left party is socialist but has been a doormat for the social democrats, who flirt with liberals (and some conservative agendas of e.g. ”order”) for the sake of power^TM and to keep the nationalist-conservative (formerly neo-nazist) sweden democrats out of any government(-supporting) position. I think your ”socialist left party” is the closest to our left.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on June 22, 2021, 04:59:30 am

Ah okay, yeah. Our Venstre rattles off a number of very nice ideas, but has put all of that aside for the sake of being part of the conservative coalition currently in government (which included the far-right Progressive party {ah, naming conventions...} until they dropped out because the conservative PM wasn't being nationalist enough for their tastes).

Venstre aren't actually given any power by this position, and they basically never get their way with the rest of the coalition, but hey! They're in the governing coalition! That means they get to affect real change! Go Venstre! We'll show 'em!

...sadly, that "real change" seems to be mostly just changing their minds. But hey, it's something.


The Socialist Left fellows seem fairly decent and with a smidgen of integrity, but that might have something to do with also not really having a whole lot of power.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 22, 2021, 05:04:08 am

The Left Party doesn't have much power since they're pretty small and don't really have any wingmen, but they're the one party left that doesn't completely bow to the altar of neo-liberalism (which is why they don't have any wingman -- the titular social democrats and Environment Party would rather hang with the neo-liberals).

Since their influence is limited they don't have much say, and have to pick their battles, but they still have some minor accomplishments.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 22, 2021, 06:22:16 am

Guys I think the Vikings are raiding Europe Europol again.

Anyone know an English guy called Alfred? He might help.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2021, 06:39:42 am

Quote from: scriver on June 21, 2021, 04:52:37 am

The Swedish government just collapsed with the riksdag voting no confidence for the state minister.

[ dancing crabs ]

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 22, 2021, 06:22:16 am

Guys I think the Vikings are raiding Europe Europol again.

Anyone know an English guy called Alfred? He might help.

Ah yes, Alfred of Wexit means Wexit

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 22, 2021, 07:34:10 am

Quote from: scriver on June 22, 2021, 05:04:08 am

The Left Party doesn't have much power since they're pretty small and don't really have any wingmen, but they're the one party left that doesn't completely bow to the altar of neo-liberalism (which is why they don't have any wingman -- the titular social democrats and Environment Party would rather hang with the neo-liberals).

Since their influence is limited they don't have much say, and have to pick their battles, but they still have some minor accomplishments.

Dutch and Swedish political situations right now are basically identical haha

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on June 22, 2021, 09:17:29 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2021, 06:39:42 am

Quote from: scriver on June 21, 2021, 04:52:37 am

The Swedish government just collapsed with the riksdag voting no confidence for the state minister.

[ dancing crabs ]

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 22, 2021, 06:22:16 am

Guys I think the Vikings are raiding Europe Europol again.

Anyone know an English guy called Alfred? He might help.

Ah yes, Alfred of Wexit means Wexit

Vote Alfred for Bretwalda.

Make England great again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 23, 2021, 05:20:50 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on June 22, 2021, 09:17:29 am

Make England great again.

"Make England" is too perfect ngl. I could think of a few others but none come as close;

England: Reforged
England 2: England Harder
3NGLAND: THIS TIME IT'S PERSONAL
Engl4nd: the Ice Age
Angleland: The Danish True Crime Drama
Make England (score some fakking goals)
England (cannot) score some fakking goals
Seven deadly Englands: Based on a true heptarchy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2021, 04:27:46 am

Heavy flooding for the past two days in France, Belgium, Germany, Luxemburg and the south of the Netherlands due to extreme rainfall.
Houses, bridges, roads, lots of things washed away by flooding rivers. Nearly 100 deaths in Germany, 14 deaths in Belgium and thousands still missing. Some of the affected areas are hard to contact because the power has been out long enough for people to no longer have battery power in their mobile phones.
Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands have deployed the army to the affected areas to evacuate people and build emergency bridges.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57846200

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/het-water-kwam-zo-ontzettend-snel-en-toen-viel-ook-het-licht-uit~b0f82173/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/16/climate-scientists-shocked-by-scale-of-floods-in-germany

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2021, 11:51:31 am

Quote

"Nobody was expecting this - where did all this rain come from? It's crazy," Annemarie Mueller, a 65-year-old resident of Mayen, said. "It made such a loud noise and given how fast it came down we thought it would break the door down."

The sky is falling, but actually

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 16, 2021, 12:50:18 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2021, 11:51:31 am

Quote

"Nobody was expecting this - where did all this rain come from? It's crazy," Annemarie Mueller, a 65-year-old resident of Mayen, said. "It made such a loud noise and given how fast it came down we thought it would break the door down."

The sky is falling, but actually

the atmosphere does consist of large amounts of water vapor, so in a way, this is correct somewhat. Pieces of the sky fall each time it rains ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 16, 2021, 05:17:02 pm

In Wassenburg. Germany, a dam has burst. The local authorities are immediatly evacuating 700 people in the vicinity.

200 thousand people in Germany are without power. Some of the damaged power mains are still under water, so it could take a few days before all power is restored.

Meanwhile in the Belgian province of Luik (Liege), 3500 housholds no longer have gas. The gas pipes in the area have been wiped out by the water currents. The gas company expects that it will take weeks to restore gas to the area. People are advised to go stay with friends and family if they want to cook food.

In the Dutch city of Venlo, more than 10 thousand people have been evacuated while the army is trying to repair dikes and prevent them from breaking more.

In the Dutch city of Roermond, thousands of people have been awoken by police and army at 6 in the morning to be evacuated. They are not yet allowed to return to their homes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 16, 2021, 06:16:25 pm

I hope things get better

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2021, 05:16:21 am

Given the trend of extreme weather, it will get better in short term but become more concerning in the long

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 17, 2021, 07:38:40 am

Yes. If we survive the mass extinction we’re causing, I wonder what adaptations we’ll evolve?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2021, 07:42:22 am

Gills, most likely

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2021, 07:52:35 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 17, 2021, 07:38:40 am

Yes. If we survive the mass extinction we’re causing, I wonder what adaptations we’ll evolve?

The last trillionaire will find out how to avoid tax by using shell accounts to move extinction credits around to maximise returns to the last four shareholders

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 17, 2021, 08:01:17 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 17, 2021, 07:38:40 am

Yes. If we survive the mass extinction we’re causing, I wonder what adaptations we’ll evolve?

Probably no evolved adaptations, humans are more likely to use technology to overcome problems or just move to new locations.

As weather patterns change and extreme weather events occur more often in various places we might see a push to build new cities in places that are relatively unaffected, or to develop better technology for resisting extreme weather given that the former would be extremely expensive and time consuming. Stronger and taller flood barriers, stormproofed buildings, more robust power, gas and water distribution systems, roads and railways designed to prevent flooding from stopping travel.

Though the kind of buildings that can survive a major weather event are often unpleasant to look at and inconvenient to live in, so we might stick with the cheap and replaceable buildings with the associated loss of life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on July 17, 2021, 08:04:19 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2021, 07:52:35 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 17, 2021, 07:38:40 am

Yes. If we survive the mass extinction we’re causing, I wonder what adaptations we’ll evolve?

The last trillionaire will find out how to avoid tax by using shell accounts to move extinction credits around to maximise returns to the last four shareholders

We need to Marximise returns

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on July 17, 2021, 08:17:50 am

Yes evolve gills please or I'll be forced to grow bigger elbows. I'm somewhat kidding but ey your mayors kicked us out of the coffees because people were crying over parking space in the INNER CITY, yet in the summer I can't throw a stone in nature withouth hitting a kaaskoop, nor can I buy a bread without listening to geriatric "wa'z'deeze". Fucking hell everybody is coming here on top of the hill aren't they? I should be buying construction territory, that or one day I'll do a "this is sparta" chassé kick while yelling "drugs overload".

Quote

Though the kind of buildings that can survive a major weather event are often unpleasant to look at and inconvenient to live in, so we might stick with the cheap and replaceable buildings with the associated loss of life.

 ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2021, 10:08:01 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2021, 07:52:35 am

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on July 17, 2021, 07:38:40 am

Yes. If we survive the mass extinction we’re causing, I wonder what adaptations we’ll evolve?

The last trillionaire will find out how to avoid tax by using shell accounts to move extinction credits around to maximise returns to the last four shareholders

Hey, War, Famine, Pestilence and Death need to pay their bills too somehow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 17, 2021, 10:10:38 am

Quote from: dragdeler on July 17, 2021, 08:17:50 am

Yes evolve gills please or I'll be forced to grow bigger elbows. I'm somewhat kidding but ey your mayors kicked us out of the coffees because people were crying over parking space in the INNER CITY, yet in the summer I can't throw a stone in nature withouth hitting a kaaskoop, nor can I buy a bread without listening to geriatric "wa'z'deeze".

I'll never forgive my mayor for closing down "de Bakkerij" (pub/coffeeshop). I miss all the Belgian visitors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 17, 2021, 01:54:15 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 17, 2021, 10:08:01 am

Hey, War, Famine, Pestilence and Death need to pay their bills too somehow.

Looks like Sloth and Avarice figured out a way they could get their jobs done without lifting a finger

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 19, 2021, 06:00:20 am

In Medieval estates satire once the said sins were identified, the gleaming monuments of Church and Faith would be revealed in opposition.

Alas that we had to wake from our juvenile optimism.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DrudeFiegler on July 20, 2021, 08:57:23 am

In lieu of a dot, I offer my most sincere contrafibularities to my Fellow Europeans, and to those living in the rest of the universe but reading this thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on July 20, 2021, 09:03:01 am

Quote from: DrudeFiegler on July 20, 2021, 08:57:23 am

In lieu of a dot, I offer my most sincere contrafibularities to my Fellow Europeans, and to those living in the rest of the universe but reading this thread.

Regarding the floods, or is just a fancy PTW?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 20, 2021, 11:21:47 am

A dot? Why specify the lack of a .? I must’ve missed something

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: DrudeFiegler on July 20, 2021, 02:26:22 pm

Quote from: voliol on July 20, 2021, 09:03:01 am

Regarding the floods, or is just a fancy PTW?

Fancy PTW.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 21, 2021, 08:31:45 am

Two left wing Belgian coalition parties (Ecolo and Parti Socialiste) have threatened to leave the government, thus collapsing it, if the Secretary of State responisble for the matter does not grant a pardon to the 400 illegal immigrants that have been on hunger strike against the strict asylum regime for 61 days now. Some of them are in critical condition, especially those that also stopped drinking water since last friday.

The State Secretary does not budge. "We will not breach the coalition government agreements".

"If one of them dies, we will resign and blow up the government within an hour", say Ecolo and Parti Socialiste.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/hongerstaking-illegale-migranten-splijt-belgische-politiek-en-brengt-regering-aan-het-wankelen~bbbb8e2e/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on September 15, 2021, 06:51:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 21, 2021, 08:31:45 am

Two left wing Belgian coalition parties (Ecolo and Parti Socialiste) have threatened to leave the government, thus collapsing it, if the Secretary of State responisble for the matter does not grant a pardon to the 400 illegal immigrants that have been on hunger strike against the strict asylum regime for 61 days now. Some of them are in critical condition, especially those that also stopped drinking water since last friday.

The State Secretary does not budge. "We will not breach the coalition government agreements".

"If one of them dies, we will resign and blow up the government within an hour", say Ecolo and Parti Socialiste.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/hongerstaking-illegale-migranten-splijt-belgische-politiek-en-brengt-regering-aan-het-wankelen~bbbb8e2e/

So what happened with that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 16, 2021, 09:47:06 am

Quote from: Iduno on September 15, 2021, 06:51:25 pm

So what happened with that?

Knowing Belgium; the attempt to the collapse the government probably collapsed from lack of support, the government collapsed nevertheless soon after

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 17, 2021, 10:49:49 am

I haven't seen any follow-up article in my newspaper. Perhaps I should read a belgian newspaper every once in a while.

What's the decent journalism newspapers in Belgium? De Morgen and de Standaard?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on September 17, 2021, 11:29:39 am

IDK because I don't care a lot about what goes on here, but if the german newspaper scene thoughtme anything is avoid the biggest one like the plague... BILD is an insult to dead fish... anyway just checking aaaand yup... by size:


1 the standaard: christdemocratic
2 de morgen: center left
3 de tijd: economic liberalism

honorable mentions: metro seems to exist in both french and dutch, het laatste nieuws might sell even more than de standaard but something about the list makes me feel like it's probably not counted in the same manner, might not be print based or whatever

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on September 17, 2021, 02:43:36 pm

They had to stop, nothing changed except the people who did the hungerstrike are in bad shape.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2021, 04:42:27 am

France pulls out of UK defence talks after accusing UK of being a US vassal for torpedoing (hah) French-Australian submarine deal (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58620220)

I'm sure this had absolutely nothing to do with France supporting Italy's seizure of Australia's vaccines

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2021, 06:02:46 am

We've been talking about that in the American thread but what's that about Italy seizing (I can't spell pls help) Australian vaccines?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 20, 2021, 07:22:08 am

Quote from: scriver on September 20, 2021, 06:02:46 am

We've been talking about that in the American thread but what's that about Italy seizing (I can't spell pls help) Australian vaccines?

During the 2nd wave of covid various EU countries went turbo pirate on other countries' vaccines. My favourite one was when they seized loads of British owned vaccines in Italy... That were sold for export to Italy. Literally stealing your own stuff. But yeah France supported Italy's anti-Aussie move (https://www.france24.com/en/health/20210305-france-eu-back-italy-s-decision-to-block-covid-19-vaccine-shipment-to-australia) saying it wasn't anti-Aussie, it was just they weren't meeting their own health interests. Now France is saying Australia is being anti-France, whilst Australia is saying Naval Group just wasn't meeting Aus's defence interests. The hypocrisy is rank; the insults to our countries is just pointless, but hey if they want to burn bridges they can burn bridges all they want

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on September 22, 2021, 04:45:47 am

The current leader of the biggest Swedish Party (also the prime minister) announced a while back that he will step down from his position this fall, after the annual party meeting where they elect a new leader. The other week he participated in his last party leader debate, and at the end of it he was gifted a customary present from all other party leaders. The present from the leader of the far-right nationalist party, the Sweden Democrats, was a book about Swedish sausages with a real sausage attached as a bonus. The sausage’s name was ”Die Harder 6.0”.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 22, 2021, 06:04:33 am

That's a pretty nice political tradition. More political candidates should gift each other sausages; but that is an odd name for a sausage

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on September 22, 2021, 07:19:27 am

It was apparently very spicy. The gifter assured it was by no means a threat or a wish for future misfortune, though one can wonder considering the political animosity between the two whether choosing the sausace was intentionally treading that thin line of what can be called out and what can not.

All in all the gifting was wholesome though, he also got tickets to the new ABBA concert.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 14, 2021, 04:12:17 am

Potential terrorist attack (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58910794) in Norway. At least four dead.

Now they use bows and arrows.

Can't wait to hear gun grabbers coming for bows, now. ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2021, 04:13:06 am

You got to get these high capacity quivers off our streets

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 14, 2021, 05:18:01 am

We can't have people running around with semi-aromatic sticks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on October 14, 2021, 05:46:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on October 14, 2021, 05:18:01 am

We can't have people running around with semi-aromatic sticks

The scented candles are truly horrifying.

The worst, I say! Weapons of mass destruction is what they are! The military uses them in lieu of cobalt-salted nuclear bombs.

Someone get the Hague in on this violation of the Geneva conventions!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2021, 07:33:25 am

When does a stick become a deadly weapon? Lawyers say the matter is a distinction marked by the user's enthusiasm

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2021, 03:59:16 am

Another terrorist attack (https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/british-lawmaker-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-sky-2021-10-15/), this time a British MP got knifed again, police arrested a Brit citizen of Somali heritage under suspicion of islamic terrorism

*EDIT
To make matters spicier his dad was a former adviser to the PM of Somalia. Poor guy seems shook that his son would do something like murder. Initial suspicions are that he was inspired to carry out the assassination after chatting with some Al Shabaab people online
*EDITx2
Damn, it gets worse. His father left Somalia to live in the UK because... Al Shabaab were threatening his life

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 27, 2021, 09:55:03 am

The European Court has sentenced the state of Poland to pay 1 million euros fine per day, for as long as they do not abolish their disciplinary committee and stop silencing judges.

The fine will be withheld from EU funding.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 27, 2021, 10:41:17 am

inb4 Poland announces they are cutting their EU contributions by 1 million euros a day due to budget constraints

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 27, 2021, 10:53:03 am

inb4 Pexit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 27, 2021, 10:57:39 am

It's called Polout

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 27, 2021, 11:04:34 am

Oh, sorry dude. Didn't realise I was being poloutically incorrect.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 27, 2021, 02:05:50 pm

Polloutta Europe: the award winning French film coming to cinemas near you; featuring sex, drama and greyscale shots of Polish social housing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on October 27, 2021, 02:11:18 pm

The friendly and Polite Europe related terrible jokes thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 27, 2021, 02:59:23 pm

It needs some Polish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 27, 2021, 04:05:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on October 27, 2021, 02:59:23 pm

It needs some Polish

(https://i.gifer.com/4vm.gif)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 27, 2021, 06:06:40 pm

You can tell those men never pol-out

*Suggestive eye-waggle*



........

Okay now I hate myself ahaha.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Some Grue on October 28, 2021, 12:49:10 am

Ha! Polish jokes, I like them ;) Oh well, I'm Pole...

Our current government is a terrible joke, I didn't vote on them. So let me tell some old Polish joke:
- How to solve the problem of hunger and unemployment?
- Let the hungry eat the unemployed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2021, 03:12:19 am

That's a good joke. But how do we know if your opinion is representative? The only way to know is if we consult the Pole polls

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 28, 2021, 06:19:50 am

How do Polish law enforcement get good homes?
Through the Pole Lease.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 28, 2021, 06:36:21 am

Oh Po-lease. I hurt myself laughing. I demand a Pology.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2021, 07:26:24 am

I don't mean to be impoleite but I've noticed the puns are extrapolelating in a large manner. We'll end up over popolelating the thread with this chicanery

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 28, 2021, 08:23:40 am

Inb4 Europole thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2021, 08:29:26 am

I think any name change would be too polelitically polearizing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 28, 2021, 11:19:37 am

If it doesn't result in people hunting each other with poleaxes, it's not too polemical.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 28, 2021, 12:00:47 pm

Maybe we should do an exit Poll

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Some Grue on October 29, 2021, 03:21:18 am

Just wait for our Independence Day (11th Nov) and watch a threesome between neo-Nazi nationalists and rainbow bigots with fighting feminists, banging together with police forces. It will be fun, as usual, year by year.

Our nice, national a-Pole-calipse.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 01, 2021, 05:36:35 am

Quote from: Some Grue on October 29, 2021, 03:21:18 am

...watch a threesome between neo-Nazi nationalists and rainbow bigots with fighting feminists

Sounds like a dodgy night in Soho

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on November 07, 2021, 05:37:31 pm

-

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 08, 2021, 04:36:33 pm

Bad news for the climate.
The French Supreme court ruled that 'windmill syndrome' is real (despite the medical world disagreeing), and now the operator of a windmill field has to pay 128000 euros to a Belgian couple, for medical damages and decreased property value.

If this becomes precedent, there will be not a single energy company or investor that will still build windmills on land (at least not near habitation).

No one is going to reserve an extra 300 million euros when building a 5 million euro windpark, in case the 3000 villagers nextdoors decide to sue for damages.

The windmill park in question was already present when the couple bought a farm about a kilometer away from it. Then the forest between the windmills and the farm was cut down, and they started complaining about the noise, and blinding flashes of reflected sunlight. Eventually they moved out on doctor's advice.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 14, 2021, 05:47:57 am

Ukraine's president Volodimir Zelenski has said that "Russia now has nearly 100000 soldiers at our borders", after receiving intel from western countries about Russian troop movements.

In response, the UK has put 600 paratroopers on high alert, ready to be flown in to the Ukraine on moment's notice.
Uk general and chief in command, Sir Nick Carter, has warned that the chance of violent confrontation between Russia and the West hasn't been this high since the Cold War ended.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 24, 2021, 03:51:27 pm

Today Sweden got her first female state minister. Then we also got our first state minister who's had their governing budget rejected before they even had time to take office followed by our first female state minister resigning from the position after her coalition party the Environment Party quit the coalition government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 24, 2021, 07:57:49 pm

On the bright side, she set a new record for longest ruling Swedish female prime minister ever. 7 hours, yet unbeaten.

We are waiting for nearly a year since elections now over here in the Netherlands, for our own fallen government to be replaced with the new, same government, if only because a government that is already fallen can't be sent home. It seems demissionary status + corona crisis is a carte blanche to just pretend you're still in charge.
Our new government will quite likely not make it to the end of it's term before they're sent home, once they are finally done forming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 25, 2021, 06:51:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on November 14, 2021, 05:47:57 am

Ukraine's president Volodimir Zelenski has said that "Russia now has nearly 100000 soldiers at our borders", after receiving intel from western countries about Russian troop movements.

In response, the UK has put 600 paratroopers on high alert, ready to be flown in to the Ukraine on moment's notice.
Uk general and chief in command, Sir Nick Carter, has warned that the chance of violent confrontation between Russia and the West hasn't been this high since the Cold War ended.

Good lord, imagine being one of the 600 paras expected to hold off 100,000 russians

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on November 29, 2021, 02:23:11 pm

And today Sweden got its second female prime minister. It’s the same person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 29, 2021, 03:08:06 pm

That's what they want you to believe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on November 29, 2021, 04:52:36 pm

All women are the same person
it's how they know
it's how they know

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 30, 2021, 03:43:25 am

Imagine not being pathos
I can't

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 13, 2021, 01:17:05 pm

Danish former minister of Immigration has been convicted and sentenced to two months in prison, for illegally separating married immigrant couples.

In her defense, Inger Støjberg said that she was just trying to discourage child marriage and protect minors.
Of all the couples she separated, at least one of them was a minor. The women ranged from age 15-17, and the men ranged from age 15-32. Some of the separated couples already had children. Most of them were from Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 14, 2021, 02:00:07 am

You can convict politicians? Noice

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 14, 2021, 03:23:15 am

Denmark has a very special court for that. It was founded in 1849, and this was their 5th case.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2021, 05:30:20 am

Slackers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 14, 2021, 08:03:54 am

The European Court in Luxemburg has ruled that EU member states are obliged to legally acknowledge both parents of gay couples with children as having full parenting rights, even if said member states themselves have not legalized gay marriage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 14, 2021, 07:50:59 pm

Malta is now the first EU country that fully legalizes marijuana for personal use.
The new law allows anyone over age 18 to legally carry 7gr weed on their person, grow 4 plants in their homes and store 50gr of dried cannabis at home.

Smoking weed in public spaces, or near a minor remains an offense, punishable by a 500 euro fine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 15, 2021, 04:34:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 14, 2021, 07:50:59 pm

Malta is now the first EU country that fully legalizes marijuana for personal use.
The new law allows anyone over age 18 to legally carry 7gr weed on their person, grow 4 plants in their homes and store 50gr of dried cannabis at home.

Smoking weed in public spaces, or near a minor remains an offense, punishable by a 500 euro fine.

It is always one of those funny things where you can go to prison for weed possession but invest openly in the stock market in commercial weed growing companies. Nevertheless I wish police would enforce the law in public spaces because the stench is inescapable and clouds the Thames pathways in miasma that is rather unkind to lung health

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 15, 2021, 12:25:06 pm

Smoking is a rather poor ingestion mechanism anyway. Don't you all realize we're living in the 21st century? What is this stone age shit, burning something and then inhaling it.

Embrace the CYBERWEED.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on December 15, 2021, 01:14:55 pm

The EU really should lift the ban of snus outside of Sweden and ban smoking instead. It's still gross in a major way and a bad personal choice, but at least it doesn't poison everyone around you.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 15, 2021, 01:20:12 pm

You can't do that, people in France and Germany smoke

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on December 16, 2021, 03:56:02 am

So do people in New Zealand but the government there are well on the way to banning it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-to-ban-smoking-for-next-generation-in-bid-to-outlaw-habit-by-2025 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/new-zealand-to-ban-smoking-for-next-generation-in-bid-to-outlaw-habit-by-2025)
Never mind that young people have already moved on to cyberweed vaping as by far the preferred option for ingestion.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on December 16, 2021, 07:46:42 am

MSH LIVES.


Huh I was going to protest to leave meemaw her fags but that proposal is actually super thought out and could work... Just don't outlaw tabacco farming for personal use to the few freaks who want  want to go primeval or have other uses. And then there is just another detail... Those people who collect and invest in cigars, are they gonna have as much paperwork as somebody who (legally) trades in ivory? Hehe could definitly chuckle at that, some forms of regulation could never make me mad even if the outcome is somewhat absurd to the unitiated.


There is health risks/unkowns associated to pg/vg vapejuice too though, I agree that nobody needs to have a right to ingest tar, but let's just hope it doesn't open the door to an outright offense on nicotine, it has limited uses, but not none. And supporting that would definitly feel like burning the bridge behind me, who am I to rob coming generations of a molecule, it's not special waste like asbestus where we'd be doing them an unambigious favor to burry it to never be found again.


On the subject of cyberweed, I am engineering something with some nasty pizzazz... The project gets interrupted for months on end since I got a lot of stuff going on (it affects my health so it's not something to rush either, I'm slowly feeling my way there like a blind person) but so god help me i will tickle the edge of physics until I got the hottest tar free gas possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 16, 2021, 07:48:45 am

Don't ingest New-Zealanders it will turn your stomach upside down

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 16, 2021, 08:48:47 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 15, 2021, 12:25:06 pm

Smoking is a rather poor ingestion mechanism anyway. Don't you all realize we're living in the 21st century? What is this stone age shit, burning something and then inhaling it.

Embrace the CYBERWEED.

https://vimeo.com/43104707 (https://vimeo.com/43104707)

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2021, 07:48:45 am

Don't ingest New-Zealanders it will turn your stomach upside down

You're not my supervisor!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: None on December 16, 2021, 09:43:48 am

Quote from: martinuzz on December 16, 2021, 07:48:45 am

Don't ingest New-Zealanders it will turn your stomach upside down

kiwis are, in fact, hairy on the outside

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on December 17, 2021, 06:34:11 am

The Gävle Goat has burnt down for the first time since 2016.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/3LnmuhB.jpg)

May the Gods be pleased with our sacrifice. May they finally correct our dark timeline.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 17, 2021, 07:02:27 am

YES! We offer this GETABOCK to you, spirits! In flame may our world be wrought anew!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 17, 2021, 07:08:27 am

Sweden seems like a lot of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Npo0cmp-VY

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 18, 2021, 06:09:51 am

5G network is being delayed in the Netherlands. There already were problems because of conspiracy cuckoos setting radio towers on fire.

But now, a satelite company, Inmarsat, which provides emergency radio communications for sea and air traffic around the world, is using the radio frequency of 3.5GHz, which 5G is supposed to be using.
Because 5G signals have a chance of interrupting their own radio traffic, and they are legally bound to have 99.9% reliability and uptime, the company went to court when the Dutch government announced they were going to be kicked out of the frequency.
The judge ruled that international agreements have more weight than our Dutch government's demands. Our government had no right to demand they give up their 3.5Ghz band.

The company is looking at moving to Greece, but that will take at least a few years.
So it looks like there will be conflict between EU and the Netherlands. EU agreements legally oblige us to roll out 5G nationwide, as fast as possible. We are already behind on schedule compared to other EU countries. But now we are also legally obliged to wait until the frequency is freed up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on December 18, 2021, 09:22:50 am

I would’ve thought that the Netherlands would have had 5G all over, given the Dutch nuclear authority said that various wearable “anti-5G” products are actually radioactive (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/17/anti-5g-necklaces-radioactive-dutch-nuclear-experts-quantum-pendants).

Obviously that’s just because these products work and the government is lying about the scale of the rollout and doesn’t want people not being mind-controlled by the 5G network, or getting Covid from the 5G network, or whatever other nonsense it’s supposed to do.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 18, 2021, 01:08:34 pm

Well, yeah, these anti-5G magical stones indeed turned out to be highly radioactive.
As in: I'm sure you won't have any bad health problems from 5g, because you will have died of excruciatingly painful radiation cancer long before that.
Oh, and your children will problably have an extra arm or head too.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on December 18, 2021, 03:40:50 pm

Wait, why do you as a quack sell radioactive stones instead of normal ones? Wouldn't the normal ones be cheaper giving you a higher profit margin?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on December 18, 2021, 04:11:10 pm

Radioactive ones feel like they're doing something, which is how people know they "work".

The credibility from that means they can do longer-term grifts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2021, 04:19:58 pm

I highly doubt a quack has the knowledge to know what stones are radioactive and not, and aren't there a lot of stones that can be radioactive?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 27, 2021, 05:51:27 am

After more than 9 months of formation talks, it looks like we will finally get a government, in januari.

We will get 4 new ministries. Ministry of Poverty, Ministry of Housing, Ministry of Climate and... Ministry of Nitrogen.

The Ministry of Nitrogen is nescesssary because we haven't been able to build new houses, new windmills, new solar parks, new nothing because of EU nitrogen emission regulations for a few years now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on December 27, 2021, 06:40:28 am

Farmers still believing spreading their shit around is a good deed is so cringe, the fields are overfertilized but not in a balanced way. There is good subvention money in natural gas, problem is the pigs and I'm talking about the farmers, not the animals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 27, 2021, 06:47:44 am

I totally support the idea behind reducing nitrogen compound emissions.

But what I cannot support is that it stops us from building new homes, when housing shortages are so damn through the roof that children have to live with their parents until they are 40 because there's no affordable housing to be found.

And I think preventing and cancelling green energy transmission projects like solar and wind parks, because the construction will emit too much nitrogen is just silly, not to say retarded. Sure, it will help reduce nitrogen emissions. But it will also make reaching CO2 climate goals impossible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on December 27, 2021, 09:59:30 am

In what way do these other things release inordinate amounts of nitrogen? I don't even get it.



non-related but here is the garbageman SLPT: when building a house and dealing with contractors pay 'em 200 bucks less than convened, tell 'em they'll get their caution if once they've taken their trash with them... It's so fucking easy to throw it all on a heap and show up like "yup it's from a construction site" as if that gave one permission to stop sorting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 27, 2021, 10:16:56 am

Emissions from the vehicles and machines used in construction, combined with just about any piece of land in the Netherlands being within close distance of a Natura2000 designated area.

Ours is a very small country.

Really, if we want to build anything anywhere and still comply with EU Natura2000 regulations, we would have to invade and annex parts of Germany and Belgium

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 27, 2021, 05:25:09 pm

Can you not colonise the sea some more?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2021, 02:18:24 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on December 27, 2021, 05:25:09 pm

Can you not colonise the sea some more?

Critics said it was not a good solution because it would just encourage more urbanisation and land reclamation

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on December 31, 2021, 02:21:35 pm

There were actually plans to build new land in the North Sea in order to move Schiphol airport there. But those plans didn't make it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 31, 2021, 02:26:16 pm

hehe

airport

plans

hehehe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on January 03, 2022, 07:12:41 am

"haha which one do you mean haha?" asks berlin nervously

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 03, 2022, 09:37:24 am

In response to Putin threatening with 'serious military and political consequences', if Finland or Sweden were to join NATO, the Finish president and the Finnish prime mininster have sent a message to the Kremlin stating that they will not let themselves be bullied, and they will keep the option of NATO membership open, because any country should have the right to decide it's own security policy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2022, 09:43:41 am

Putin's response: "We're not finished with you just yet"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 03, 2022, 10:01:49 am

Hey, don't Swed it. I just hope you have good fallout vaults.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 03, 2022, 10:06:21 am

The old 60-70's "Million Project" housing apartment blocks is going to become real popular real quick, we haven't built houses with bomb shelters since

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 03, 2022, 11:00:32 am

In case of nuclear war, the only thing that will save you is DF.

DIG DEEPER


Fear not the clowns of the deep, fear the Putin-faced clown of the overworld that is trying to raise the Forgotten Beast of the East.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2022, 04:42:36 pm

Putin has too many crumbling frontiers but not enough resources to defend them all. It is not an enviable job to have; it is a paradox that his sense of insecurity causes him to be more bellicose, and his belligerence causes his neighbours to seek allies - all in a self-defeating feedback loop Russia can ill afford. Would Finland consider joining NATO if Russia did not invite itself across other's borders? No

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magmacube_tr on January 07, 2022, 03:56:44 pm

bri










ish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on January 08, 2022, 04:52:45 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 03, 2022, 09:37:24 am

In response to Putin threatening with 'serious military and political consequences', if Finland or Sweden were to join NATO, the Finish president and the Finnish prime mininster have sent a message to the Kremlin stating that they will not let themselves be bullied, and they will keep the option of NATO membership open, because any country should have the right to decide it's own security policy.

I thought we were over the time when Finland had to fluctuate between Russia and Western Europe/USA.  What's old is new again.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 03, 2022, 04:42:36 pm

Putin has too many crumbling frontiers but not enough resources to defend them all. It is not an enviable job to have; it is a paradox that his sense of insecurity causes him to be more bellicose, and his belligerence causes his neighbours to seek allies - all in a self-defeating feedback loop Russia can ill afford. Would Finland consider joining NATO if Russia did not invite itself across other's borders? No

Ah, so Putin's actions are just because he misses Trump.  They must have gotten along quite well.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 08, 2022, 10:17:00 am

(https://pics.me.me/visitrussia-before-russia-visits-you-atl-14439233.png)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 06:26:12 am

Today we finally got a new government, after nearly a year of formation talks.

It starts well: Our new Minister of Finance missed the inauguration because she tested positive for corona

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2022, 08:35:46 am

Quote from: EuchreJack on January 08, 2022, 04:52:45 am

Ah, so Putin's actions are just because he misses Trump.  They must have gotten along quite well.

Even with Trump, Putin would've known that he had at best 8 years of passive USA; it extends beyond and before Trump. Russia just can't compete with US resources

Quote from: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 06:26:12 am

Today we finally got a new government, after nearly a year of formation talks.

It starts well: Our new Minister of Finance missed the inauguration because she tested positive for corona

Congrats until the next coalition breakdown

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 08:47:18 am

Save the congrats UNTIL the next coalition breakdown haha. I hope they won't last long, bunch of miserable neocon fucktards.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2022, 08:50:24 am

Oh it's one of those coalitions lmao

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 08:56:13 am

It's exactly the same coalition as the one that was sent home 360 days ago, with some new faces on minister duty.

In other news: There is a prison riot ongoing over here in Schiedam. Prison is now surrounded by armored police vans, police in body armor, machineguns, roadblocks, while the prison wards are trying to negotiate with the prisoners. It's one of our high security prisons that houses terrorists.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 09:41:35 am

moved to the covid thread

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 10, 2022, 09:44:02 am

Uganda be joking me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 09:45:04 am

Oh, heh, I meant to post that in the covid thread.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2022, 09:51:07 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 08:56:13 am

It's exactly the same coalition as the one that was sent home 360 days ago, with some new faces on minister duty.

In other news: There is a prison riot ongoing over here in Schiedam. Prison is now surrounded by armored police vans, police in body armor, machineguns, roadblocks, while the prison wards are trying to negotiate with the prisoners. It's one of our high security prisons that houses terrorists.

I can't help but feel 'negotiation' is perhaps non-conducive. Though it depends on what's at stake; if they're endangering others (ie cleaning staff, cooks, guards) then negotiation is best.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on January 10, 2022, 10:00:00 am

I mean if everyboody gets a silk road gift card that can only be exchanged against sedatives, you might be looking at a win-win-win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 10:08:16 am

The situation has already been resolved. Apparently, 18 prisoners were protesting against corona measures. After negotiations they agreed to return to their cells.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2022, 10:42:08 am

Ahh, I was envisaging violent prison mobs.
A protest about poor living quality is slightly different, heh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 10, 2022, 11:55:09 am

I suppose the show of force was because they didn't know which prison population was causing trouble, and to be sure just in case the riot was a diversion for a prison break. The prison has 3 different populations. Terrorist ward, standard prison ward, and police custody ward.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Duuvian on January 14, 2022, 10:33:02 pm

Uh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police,_Crime,_Sentencing_and_Courts_Bill

Where I heard about it (opinion piece)

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/1/13/the-save-its-democracy-the-uk-should-kill-its-new-police-bill

I don't live there but many portions listed in those links sound bad to me (without having looked through bill texts). What do people who live there think?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 15, 2022, 06:02:38 am

Oh hey Duuvian, nice to see you join the pleasant EU thread

Yeah the UK is a shitty little police state. Not in the sense it's a police state; there's too few police for it to be one, and they certainly can't help you if you are attacked, robbed or otherwise waylaid. But there's enough legal, surveillance and security apparatus in place to make sure you if you cause problems you can be inconvenienced to say the least. I fully expect there'll be very selective enforcement of the bill, so any public nusiances will not fly on police radars but demonstrations and protests will get the ol' tear gas. You'd hope the public would be in uproar but they tend to get divided whenver the police are gassing "your dudes" and not "our dudes" when the media pundits start poisoning the well of good faith. There is always the potential however, that even should this bill come to pass, that the public will just ignore it and refuse to allow it to be enforced. Such political prosecutions are rendered rather tame by political shitflinging

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 16, 2022, 06:20:01 pm

Ukraine's President Zelensky announced he would arrest former President Poroshenko on account of treason.  Poroshenko fled to Europe afterwards, but now has announced he intends to return to Ukraine. He called on his supporters to croud out the airport in which he is arriving back and stop police from arresting him. Now whole buses of people from around the country are travelling to the airport; police are stopping some of those buses. Some of the people on one bus have appeared on a national news program.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2022, 09:58:51 am

News has leaked that the highest chief of the Danish Foreign Intelligence Service has been arrested last month, and has been imprisoned ever since. His arrest was supposed to be <state secret>. He is accused of <state secret>,  on basis of <state secret> by the Domestic Intelligence Service. (So basically what happened is the Danish version of the FBI imprisoned and is interrogating the director of the Danish version of the CIA)

Danish newspaper Politiken comments: 'Either Denmark is destroying it's own FI services by sueing it's high director on unfounded accusations, or, our country has a chief of spies that has endangered the kingdom.
Both options are, mildly formulated, terrifying and damaging to Denmark'.


Something is rotten in the kingdom of Denmark..

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on January 18, 2022, 12:12:16 pm

Quote from: bloop_bleep on January 16, 2022, 06:20:01 pm

Ukraine's President Zelensky announced he would arrest former President Poroshenko on account of treason.  Poroshenko fled to Europe afterwards, but now has announced he intends to return to Ukraine. He called on his supporters to croud out the airport in which he is arriving back and stop police from arresting him. Now whole buses of people from around the country are travelling to the airport; police are stopping some of those buses. Some of the people on one bus have appeared on a national news program.

Well, Zelensky is a stupid Trump-like kind of a politician but he isn't THIS stupid to announce something like this officially. And this bus-stopping stuff isn't really something major. But yeah, it seems to be his priority when The Russian Army is at the border and a huge escalation in the war is very likely.

At least, it is entertaining to watch.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 18, 2022, 03:43:39 pm

In what way is Zelensky Trump-like?

Also, isn’t Poroshenko hugely pro-Russian?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on January 18, 2022, 05:13:05 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2022, 09:58:51 am

Something is rotten in the kingdom of Denmark..

LOL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 18, 2022, 10:05:07 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 18, 2022, 03:43:39 pm

In what way is Zelensky Trump-like?

Also, isn’t Poroshenko hugely pro-Russian?

Neither is hugely pro-Russian. Both their blocs are quite corrupt however. Poroshenko was found to be taking money from the military and other misdeeds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on January 19, 2022, 03:03:19 am

Quote from: hector13 on January 18, 2022, 03:43:39 pm

In what way is Zelensky Trump-like?

Also, isn’t Poroshenko hugely pro-Russian?

*visible confusion*

No. Nothing in Poroshenko is pro-Russian. He is as anti-Russian as a politician of his caliber can get.

Well, there are conspiracy theories but those are exactly that.

As for Zelensky being Trump-like. He is also a power-hungry populist with zero actual political experience and

Quote from: bloop_bleep on January 18, 2022, 10:05:07 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 18, 2022, 03:43:39 pm

In what way is Zelensky Trump-like?

Also, isn’t Poroshenko hugely pro-Russian?

Neither is hugely pro-Russian. Both their blocs are quite corrupt however. Poroshenko was found to be taking money from the military and other misdeeds.

Citation needed

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on January 23, 2022, 01:26:28 pm

The polls have closed for the wellbeing services county elections (why not welfare district elections or welfare county elections?!) in Finland. Completely new thing here that overhauls the administration of welfare services (healthcare, social, etc.)

Early counts suggest an even split between the National Coalition Party, Social Democratic Party, and the Center Party.

Looking rather centric overall. Why, I have no idea. Here's hoping the counts swing leftward, given the previous rightwing government's blatant attempt to privatize our welfare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 23, 2022, 02:47:34 pm

The US and Germany are evacuating their embassy staff from Kiev out of fear for war breaking out.

Lots of EU countries are sending defensive weapons to Ukraine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on January 23, 2022, 04:12:12 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 23, 2022, 02:47:34 pm

The US and Germany are evacuating their embassy staff from Kiev out of fear for war breaking out.

Lots of EU countries are sending defensive weapons to Ukraine.

And Germany banned Estonia from supplying some old formerly Eastern German howitzers to Ukraine

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2022, 04:42:52 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2022, 09:58:51 am

Something is rotten in the kingdom of Denmark..

That is both really cool and really terrible

Cool because I love stories of interservice rivalry. Terrible because it's irl

Quote from: Strongpoint on January 23, 2022, 04:12:12 pm

And Germany banned Estonia from supplying some old formerly Eastern German howitzers to Ukraine

Germany's in a bit of a bind. They can be a toothless rag to keep suckling on the teat of Russia's natural gas, or they can start having a military foreign policy and reawaken the "oh fuck the Germans are back" question

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on January 23, 2022, 06:49:43 pm

Update from the wellbeing services county elections: Nationally, it seems to be a right-of-centre victory overall. The Center Party is the biggest party in most counties (notably rural north), while counties with major cities appear to have National Coalition Party or Swedish People's Party as the biggest party. Turnout is 47.5%.

My county appears to be dead center. Center Party and Movement.Now will be kingmakers, unless Swedish People's Party decides to switch sides.

Finns, I am disappoint.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on January 23, 2022, 11:20:45 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 23, 2022, 04:42:52 pm

Germany's in a bit of a bind. They can be a toothless rag to keep suckling on the teat of Russia's natural gas, or they can start having a military foreign policy and reawaken the "oh fuck the Germans are back" question

I can say you one thing. Germany managed to achieve a status of an ally of Russia in minds of Ukrainians.

I guess good it's for them because it will significantly reduce the number of refugees going there after Ukraine will go full Syria.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 24, 2022, 07:13:57 am

Quote from: Strongpoint on January 23, 2022, 11:20:45 pm

I can say you one thing. Germany managed to achieve a status of an ally of Russia in minds of Ukrainians.

I guess good it's for them because it will significantly reduce the number of refugees going there after Ukraine will go full Syria.

It's one thing to be neutral but if the Germans actively blocking other NATO allies from giving military aid to Ukraine, this is highly sus. They say it's because they don't sell weapons to places where there's "tension" (https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-ukraine-arms-idUSL1N2U123W) but sell weapons to Egypt, Israel, UAE, Qatar, Pakistan, which of course are famous for no tension

It definitely seems like some backchannel deal has been made

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2022, 09:09:22 am

It doesnt even need to be a backchannel deal, though there certainly could be one. Central Europe is utterly dependent on Russian gas, especially and obviously in winter, and especially this year with a huge energy crisis and with alternative gas sources having their own international ruckus going on (see: the crisis between Morocco and Algeria).

There doesn't need to be a literal deal, they just need to be terrified of a potential gas embargo to act as if there was one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 25, 2022, 05:35:22 am

Hmmm. If Boris is brought down over Partygate, I am going to lose my bet that the UK would see the creation of a Ministry of Extramarital Affairs before his rule ended.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 25, 2022, 04:30:38 pm

It’s being investigated by the police now.

It would be slightly silly the number of other much more horrible things he’s had happen in his tenure (allegations of cabinet ministers bullying staff, said staff suing the government, the housing secretary taking money for something, a senior adviser driving hundreds of miles for childcare when he had Covid, his inability to answer whether or not he paid for renovations to his flat, etc.)  that he’d be taken down by half an hour at a party, and now apparently a surprise party for his birthday.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 28, 2022, 09:34:15 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2022, 09:09:22 am

It doesnt even need to be a backchannel deal, though there certainly could be one. Central Europe is utterly dependent on Russian gas, especially and obviously in winter, and especially this year with a huge energy crisis and with alternative gas sources having their own international ruckus going on (see: the crisis between Morocco and Algeria).

There doesn't need to be a literal deal, they just need to be terrified of a potential gas embargo to act as if there was one.

There's probably more to it, since Germany is also siding with China despite not being dependent on Chinese energy resources. Germany is doing something odd

Quote from: https://www.ft.com/content/25b54dd3-bfed-4768-bc21-96acedc2c24a

Latvian defence minister slams Germany's immoral relationship with Russia and China

   Germany’s “immoral and hypocritical” relationship with Russia and China has driven a wedge between western and eastern Europe, Latvia’s defence minister has said in comments that highlight cracks in the west’s unity.

Artis Pabriks told the Financial Times that western Europe’s “wishful thinking” about security was evident in its response to Russia amassing more than 100,000 troops on its border with Ukraine.

In strongly worded remarks that lay bare the tensions within Nato over how to handle Russia, Pabriks said Berlin had an “immoral inability” to allow howitzer guns once stationed in Germany to be shipped from Estonia to Ukraine to help its defence against a possible invasion.

German companies were also threatening to quit Lithuania in relation to its dispute with China over the de facto Taiwanese embassy in the Baltic country, even as Germany invoked “values” when seeking to punish Poland over its rule of law violations, he added.

“How are you acting yourself when it comes to Lithuania, Russia, China?” Pabriks asked. “It’s immoral and hypocritical. It’s driving a division line between west and east in Europe.

“Germans forgot already that Americans were granting their security in the cold war. But they should [remember]. It’s their moral duty,” he added.

Which sums things up pretty nicely. Loads of harsh words for Hungary and Poland, and even Ukraine and Lithuania, all in exchange for what exactly? Clearly the Germans think the Chinese and Russians have something more to offer in exchange for throwing Eastern Europe to the wolves, and it's a lot more than just natural gas

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on January 28, 2022, 10:23:59 am

First time in like 20 years the minister of foreign affairs isnt some christdemocratic ghoul. She even studied polisciences. That being said it took the greens in power to have german soldiers put foot on foreign soil again, but kosovo was a good war right?!

Fuck my country only exists because they needed tampon states after napoleon, but let's not overload this with historical context, they didn't get their agreements black on white anyway and regardless anything east of the volga is evil.




To clarify: it's really fucking easy for anglosaxons and their mediamoney pals to sarcifice central europe as battlefield of some bullshit matter of principle petulance. Would have enjoyed watching the usa twiddle thumbs if some trade agrement threatened their access to the bering striaght as we all know that would have been a thing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2022, 11:41:53 am

Aw, crap. Rough seas and a storm called Corrie sent a Maltese container vessel adrift into the new Dutch offshore windmill park near Noordwijk aan Zee, that is being built by Swedish energy company Vattenfall.
This afternoon it collided with the foundation of a transformer platform under construction and is drifting ever since right in the middle of the other construction sites and already finished windmills.
All crew have been rescued from the leaking ship by 3 coastguard helicopters, two tow ships are underway for a salvage mission.
The damages to our new green power supply are yet unclear.
Let's hope it will not be too much of a setback for reaching our climate targets.

It also raises the important question of how are we going to prevent drifting megatankers from colliding with our future windmill parks?
I suppose naval mines are off the table.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on January 31, 2022, 11:46:53 am

At least it beats a megatanker colliding with a nuclear plant.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 31, 2022, 11:59:18 am

Hah indeed.

Oh, it's a German ship, not Maltese.
This morning, it's anchor was ripped loose by the storm while it waited in queue for the docks at Ijmuiden. It then rammed into a Maltese chemical tanker ship, which luckily remained stable and is still anchored.
Then it started drifting towards the windmill park.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on January 31, 2022, 12:56:10 pm

Pretty sure half the european trading fleet is immatriculated in malta because of taxes or something.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 31, 2022, 12:57:16 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 31, 2022, 11:59:18 am

Hah indeed.

Oh, it's a German ship, not Maltese.

It's a conspiracy to hinder renewable energy sources to benefit Grosse Kol

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 03, 2022, 12:42:40 pm

Various European oil-infrastructure companies have been hit by a large cyberattack.
The German companies Oiltanking and Mabanaft brought the news themselves, that their terminals were severely hampered by cyberattacks. Shell had to turn to other companies to restock fuel stations across Germany.
British market researcher Argus and de Belgian newspaper De Tijd report that the oil terminals in the harbors of Antwerp, Rotterdam, Terneuzen and Gent were also incapactitated.

Most companies refuse to comment on the attack, out of fear of reputation damage, and because they need their time to resolve the issue, instead of speaking to journalists.

The German newspaper Handelsblatt reports that, based on an internal report from the German cybersecurity centre, that the attack was made using the BlackCat ransomware.


If WW3 ever starts, it will be over before it started, because our tanks and planes have no fuel.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 03, 2022, 06:25:07 pm

Our government sent a top secret covert operation to Syria, to retrieve 5 Dutch IS women and their 11 children from a prison camp.
They are to stand trial in the Netherlands for the crimes of being a member of a terrorist organisation and actively supporting terrorist attacks (the women that is, ofcourse not the children).
We had to bring them to the Netherlands, or the trial would be declared void. It is a defendant's right to be physically present at their trial. So we picked them up from Syria to ensure them their human right of being locked up in a terrorist prison for a decade or two.
The children will probably have to be put in locked institutions and deradicalized, if that is even possible.

(The women we brought back are not of the 'I have so much regrets' type. They are of the 'we enforce sharia laws in this prison camp' type. Their children have been trained to help enforce sharia laws since they were 4 or 5. Can't place them in foster care, they will slit the foster mom's throat for not wearing a niqab first chance they get.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2022, 09:17:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 03, 2022, 06:25:07 pm

(The women we brought back are not of the 'I have so much regrets' type. They are of the 'we enforce sharia laws in this prison camp' type. Their children have been trained to help enforce sharia laws since they were 4 or 5. Can't place them in foster care, they will slit the foster mom's throat for not wearing a niqab first chance they get.)

Lol we had one such case as well. It became a very high profile human rights case with great public sympathy until she decided to speak to a journalist without her lawyer present. Sans laywer she admitted in front of a camera she had no remorse for getting innocent Syrians killed because they were apostates or non-believers. Public sympathy dropped to 0 overnight

The kids are pretty screwed. They're either going to be rejected by their parents or rejected by their country. No matter what they choose, they prove they are loyal; hope they can get a good teacher

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 09:21:52 am

Being rejected by their parents is irrelevant. Their mothers will never be allowed to see them again probably, and their fathers have been killed years ago by the allies. I hope the young ones that were born in the prison camp or still very young when they got there can be deradicalized. The older ones... Before they were in the prison camp, they have decapitated and killed many, 7 year was conscription age in IS territory, the young recruits starting their training with decapitation duty. For them, killing a women because she doesn't wear a niqab is just as normal and pious as it is for a catholic child to say prayers before dinner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2022, 09:31:14 am

What I mean is, you don't get to choose if your parents are killers. What you're born into is what is normal for you. I'm sure we can all think of a few things that were pretty fucked up that we never knew were fucked up until we gained a proper frame of reference for it. The problem is these kids likely don't have the frame of reference that differing beliefs aren't something you should kill someone over

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 09:42:19 am

Yeah that's kinda what I mean.

It is heartbreaking. But I wouldn't know how else to deal with that other than to put the kids in a closed ward for deradicalization.
At least they'll be 1000x better off in a dutch psychiatric closed ward then they were in a prison camp in North-Syria. They'll get Playstation, education, relaxation, proper food.. They'll most likely will be free to join society at some point, but they can be sure they'll have the anti-terrorists services watching their every breath for the rest of their lives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2022, 09:48:39 am

Reminds me of this one poor chap recently who fled to the UK because Somalian jihadists were threatening his life because he used to work for the Somalian government. A decade after he set up shop in the UK... His son joined the jihadists he fled from to commit terror attacks here. Bruh moment

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 10:00:06 am

Ah yeah I read about that. I feel so bad for those parents.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 10:49:08 am

Our parliament will vote on a new law in two weeks, which makes it possible for anyone to change their gender with the census easily and without obstacles.
Right now, if you want to go to the government to have your gender officially changed, it is mandatory to first get an official expert advise from a relevant medical professional. That prerequisite will be removed if the law passes.
Then you can just go to your city hall, state your new gender, and it will be done (for anyone over age 16).

I am considering changing my gender to female, it will give me access to more subsidies for work reintegration (this is me being a silly joker I am not seriously considering that and I applaud the new law).

The loudest protest comes not from christian parties but from feminists, they fear rapists will abuse the law to gain access to women safe zones.

EDIT: I do applaud the new law, but IMO the minimal age should be 27 years, when a person's frontal lobes are done developing and they are past the period of adolescent continous identity crisis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 04, 2022, 11:15:46 am

Age is a technical concern which can be sussed out later, what's most important is the principle of whether one can change such a thing willy nilly. I think the principle is sound, because you can already for example change the ethnicity registration without reason. If you decided to be blatantly transracial I wonder if the gov would try to stop you ???

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 11:20:21 am

Officially changing your race is unwise though. It can endager your life. Various races need various medical treatments because of biochemical genetic differences.
Same for gender btw. Always tell a doctor your birth gender, not your chosen gender.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 04, 2022, 12:41:51 pm

Quote

Various races need various medical treatments because of biochemical genetic differences

This is a concept that is increasingly being deprecated, and "races" are a very dubious concept to begin with.

I don't mean this in an absolute way. There are obviously important genetic polymorphisms that are associated with ethnic groups, just like with genetic conditions.  But actually changing prescription patterns based on race...  it's highly dubious as it's tantamount to claim that you can analyze someone's dna by how they look.  The whole meme comes in no small measure from certain American guidelines for CV health that are coming under fire. How poorly defined "race" is and the misconceptions that abound dont help the case.

I'd say that pragmatically knowing someone's ethnic background might be useful to suggest an investigation course if something unusual is happening but it shouldn't change the SOC in itself unless you have a very good and pressing reason to do so.
 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 01:04:19 pm

There are genetic differences between ethnicities. The word 'race' is less politically sensitive here and more interchangeable, most people assume that it's not used in the way that the ideology of our former nazi occupiers used it.

One of my new medications' prescriptions says that people with Asian roots might respond differently to the drugs and should consult with their doctor.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 04, 2022, 01:19:30 pm

This is not about political sensitivities. It's about the concept being a load of crook. Yes, many medication prospects and guidelines  say many things. But the concept is highly dubious and if you take a look at the details underneath you see the whole thing is built on straws.

To use your example: 

Quote

people with Asian roots might respond differently to the drugs and should consult with their doctor

This is actually a very good example as obviously not all Asians are the same. Asia is a  continent. Even if you adjust just for East Asians (which is what they usually tend to mean) you're talking about dozens of different ethnicities at the very least. And if you start to look at the small print it frequently becomes even more dubious.

Like I said, the concept it's increasingly deprecated. Not absolutedly, as I said, but its of far less worth than you're making it to be. You can't make wide assumptions of someone's genetic makeup based on their looks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on February 04, 2022, 01:34:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 11:20:21 am

Officially changing your race is unwise though. It can endager your life. Various races need various medical treatments because of biochemical genetic differences.
Same for gender btw. Always tell a doctor your birth gender, not your chosen gender.

I figure your medical records should already contain details on medicinal gender/sex, so doctors won’t have to use unreliable non-medical records when you need a treatment. Or do you not have a national medical records system in the Netherlands? Either way this issue of medicinal sex not matching legal documents should not be a new one, if changing your legal gender was difficult before there should be plenty of trans people with their assigned-at-birth gender on their passports but who are more or less transitioned, thus causing a mismatch between the medical/legal already. Even ignoring trans people, being intersex of various degrees is more common than most people think, and there you need records to not mess up treatments. The binary sex model is simply a pretty unhefty one, one I hope doctors don’t use straight up.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 01:41:59 pm

We do have medical national records in the Netherlands but only for those people who gave explicit permission for their medical records to be shared with the national system. You'd be surprised how many people refuse because they don't want their medical records to be sold on the dark web by Russian hackers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2022, 05:03:00 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 11:20:21 am

Officially changing your race is unwise though. It can endager your life. Various races need various medical treatments because of biochemical genetic differences.
Same for gender btw. Always tell a doctor your birth gender, not your chosen gender.

In the UK your medically recorded ethnicity and gov census ethnicity can be completely different so that's fine too

Docs will ask for sex assigned at birth instead of gender, just because that's the most accurate and polite way of phrasing it

Seems like this is just a logistical problem which is very easily resolved by point of contact conversation with a doc or nurse

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 05, 2022, 05:41:13 am

We have no government census for ethnicity (nor religion). We learned our lesson in WW2.
90% of all dutch jews were annihilated because we kept ethnic census records.
So over here you will need to tell a doctor your ethnicity if relevant, because there are no systems the doctor can look it up in.

I guess the UK never got that message because you weren't occupied

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2022, 06:00:59 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 05, 2022, 05:41:13 am

I guess the UK never got that message because you weren't occupied

Never surrender; never be a team killing fucktard. Achieve these things and life is simple

Also yeah sure records could be a concern in the shadow of fascism or the looming ghost of the soviet union, but now all info is tracked anyways by private companies. No reason not to just have a simple gov system for censuses, the lack of one won't stop any purges

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 05, 2022, 06:12:12 am

Perhaps my autism, but I do not understand the team killing remark. What does that refer to?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 05, 2022, 06:25:17 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 05, 2022, 06:12:12 am

Perhaps my autism, but I do not understand the team killing remark. What does that refer to?

History is full of states who decided the best course of action was to kill their own people

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 05, 2022, 06:35:19 am

Yeah, there is definitely blame to be placed on collaborating Dutch nazi sympathisers amongst civil service and police. We hanged some of them when we were liberated, and shaved their wives' heads. Some more were sentenced to prison in the years after that. A lot of them never met justice though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 05, 2022, 10:46:48 am

Quote from: voliol on February 04, 2022, 01:34:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 04, 2022, 11:20:21 am

Officially changing your race is unwise though. It can endager your life. Various races need various medical treatments because of biochemical genetic differences.
Same for gender btw. Always tell a doctor your birth gender, not your chosen gender.

I figure your medical records should already contain details on medicinal gender/sex, so doctors won’t have to use unreliable non-medical records when you need a treatment. Or do you not have a national medical records system in the Netherlands? Either way this issue of medicinal sex not matching legal documents should not be a new one, if changing your legal gender was difficult before there should be plenty of trans people with their assigned-at-birth gender on their passports but who are more or less transitioned, thus causing a mismatch between the medical/legal already. Even ignoring trans people, being intersex of various degrees is more common than most people think, and there you need records to not mess up treatments. The binary sex model is simply a pretty unhefty one, one I hope doctors don’t use straight up.

They still use BMI even though that's been discredited for decades. Plus, I'm not sure what they would do with gender information even if they got it right; most medical studies exclude women because it doesn't get the results they want without extra work.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2022, 07:25:00 am

Our new government decided to build two new nuclear power plants.
Currently we have 6 nuclear facilities; one operational nuclear power plant (Borssele, built in 1969-1973), one that has been decomissioned and covered in concrete in 1997 (Dodenwaard) and 4 nuclear facilities for research, medical isotopes, uranium enrichment, and long term nuclear waste depository.
Our single active nuclear plant produces 4% of our national energy needs.

I am ambivalent. While I acknowledge the nuclear waste problem, and believe no one can assure safe depository for the hundreds of thousands of years needed, I also believe that they are essential for the transition away from fossil fuels, and even more essential for becoming less dependent on Russia for our energy needs, especially now Germany has shut down all it's nuclear plants.

The plan is to have the 2 new reactors operational in 2030.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 03:18:36 pm

I am so annoyed by this nuclear revival, given the fact that a single nuclear disaster would suffice to render central europe uninhabitable.

Oh but chernobyl only blala, oh but fukushima only blabla. MPFFFF back in the day they used to declare these things will only happen once a century at most... Looks more like 20-30 years. Ok ok allright let's just wait that a fucking plane or meteorite crashes into one of those things... given the outcome why not take a shot right, hoping a generation will pass before shit hits the fan -.-...


I'd like to see the nuclear plant able to open on it's own without subvention money, with enough redundant security measures that even something super unlikely like a meteor is no concern (JFL), and a plan to manage their waste securely, operate profitably. Pretty sure those bullshit things only rake in money in the sense that the owners hardly pay to build them,  then have next to no responsibilities in disposal so long as they pay some sketchy private business with the right certificates...


edit: But it looks like this (r-slur) push is starting to bear it's fruits... and you betcha they will be putting it near the german and belgian borders... I mean they'd better given that at the other side there is the sea. But I loathe this bullshit and how all the well actually (r-slur-s) quote promo material from the lobby like anything in the world could justify drawing a bunch of these proverbial reverse lottery tickets.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 04:08:43 pm

Nuclear power is incredibly safe and cheap compared to other options as is obviously if you look at the numbers. It is inexpensive because of the INCREDIBLE power density of the fuel. It's a hell of a lot of money to BUILD the plant, but after that it's, compared to natural gas or coal, almost free to fuel, so an operating nuclear reactor rakes in money at a ludicrous rate. The reason they require subsidies is because investors are short-sighted and don't want to wait five to ten years for their investment to start raking in the money, and they fear the costs associated with the periodic refurbishment, reconditioning, and upgrades to the reactors.

Nuclear waste is certainly not dealt with appropriately but people believe that it's a lot worse than it actually is. In terms of volume there's not actually that much of it produced and if someone just bothered it'd be done. The big problem is just the longevity and even then unless you're sleeping with the cask under your bed, uncontained waste would do no more than increasing your risk of cancer. Everyone foolishly worries about burying these things and then somehow forgetting about it, perhaps instead we should just worry about keeping our civilization going so that we don't need to worry about telling some hypothetical survived-the-apocalypse-and-forgot-everything group of people about the dangers posed by the steel drums in the deep?

The idea that a nuclear power plant would suffer a large enough disaster to render Central Europe uninhabitable is...divorced from reality. Chernobyl was the worst possible nuclear reactor accident, and it has rendered barely a few square kilometers 'uninhabitable', and that level of disaster happened only in a reactor with what are, by modern standards, unthinkably lax safety standards in the reactor's basic design.

Fukushima is an EXCELLENT study in how well modern reactors can cope even with situations the designers didn't plan for, even if they should have planned for the combination of earthquake-related power failure and tsunami.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 04:50:48 pm

Quote

and if someone just bothered it'd be done

That's a lofty goal of building something that is supposed to outlive the pyramids by an order of magnitude, while staying hermetically sealed. Oh but they can just move our trash again, because that is fair to the people who will be exploited to do it, right?!

Quote

It is inexpensive because of the INCREDIBLE power density of the fuel.

yes yes we pulling rods out of the ground (https://www.wise-uranium.org/uwis.html)

Quote

In terms of volume there's not actually that much

That really depends on your regulation standards now doesn't it? TBF I do have an idea how radioactive bananas are, and how much radioactivity is released by burning coal and all that lobby blurb.

Quote

The idea that a nuclear power plant would suffer a large enough disaster to render Central Europe uninhabitable is...divorced from reality.

Yes the patch of undesirable land doesn't even stretch from minsk to kiev, please stay focused on the red zones, what's a red zone stretching from cologne to bonn, from brussels to antwerpen, from amsterdam to utrecht, from maastricht to aachen, from nizza to cannes, from düsseldorf to essen right. Call again when you are at least talking about something as big and as densely populated as the whole state of new york, we only deal with catastrophies in positive integers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Tchernobyl_radiation_1996-de.svg)

Quote

Chernobyl was the worst possible nuclear reactor accident

DO NOT JINX IT.

Quote

Fukushima is an EXCELLENT study in how well modern reactors can cope even with situations the designers didn't plan for

Luckily the japanese were able to deflect the brunt of the blow into the ocean, should be no issue in the future.

Quote

The reason they require subsidies is because investors are short-sighted and don't want to wait five to ten years for their investment to start raking in the money, and they fear the costs associated with the periodic refurbishment, reconditioning, and upgrades to the reactors.

So you do get it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2022, 05:04:00 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 04:50:48 pm

Luckily the japanese were able to deflect the brunt of the blow into the ocean, should be no issue in the future.

Up until somewhere halfway the 1980s, every nuclear plant in the world just dumped it's radioactive waste in the ocean, not to mention all the nuclear bomb testing on islands. No fluorescent octhulupusses have risen yet. The ocean is pretty damn good at diluting stuff.

EDIT: This does not mean that I am in favour of dumping nuclear waste in the oceans

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 05:12:37 pm

It's allways made sound simple, and relatively harmless. But if you insist, the list of caveats just keeps getting longer. For what? Reverse lottery tickets

lottery ticket: individual pays small price, to have tiny chance to win big price, winners are one lucky individual and the lottery company, loosers lost 3 bucks

reverse lottery ticket: the public pays big price in the case tiny chance arises, winners are the stakeholders (investment = risk right?!), loosers are deplaced by the millions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 05:17:33 pm

I'm not going to break the quotes apart because I'm busy, but:

1. It doesn't need to stay hermetically sealed, it simply needs to adequately isolate the spent fuel rods with maintenance. So long as human civilization doesn't literally stop functioning we can just, y'know, maintain a proper waste facility and not worry about it surviving an apocalypse.

Inexpensive is a relative term, obviously. Inexpensive in terms of power density and energy per dollar, not the actual cost of a single fuel rod or ton of processed uranium. And nuclear power IS incredibly cheap...once the reactor is built.

When I say "in terms of volume" I mean "in terms of volume"; as in, the actual physical space that nuclear waste takes up. The principal means of isolation is a 55 gallon steel drum with filler material packed in around the depleted uranium stored at a good long distance from human habitation.

Even in the red zones the consequences are "elevated risk of cancer". That's extremely bad for sure, but the odds of a full Chernobyl happening ever again are pretty close to zero.

Do explain how a reactor accident could be worse than Chernobyl without leaving the bounds of reality, please. There really aren't many, if any at all.

Oh I get it. Far, far more than anyone arguing against nuclear power does. I quite like nuclear power as I have read up quite a bit on the subject. It's fascinating, and incredibly useful.


Dumping nuclear waste into the deepest parts of the ocean is...not the worst option actually? Like, the ocean really could dilute the tiny amount (on the geological scale) of nuclear material we could ever use down to basically nothing. The principal problem is basically that nobody wants the solution to be "just chuck it into the oceans" because, well, that solution generally sucks for most things you might want to use it on, like trash. But properly encased nuclear waste won't float, and by the time it makes it back to the surface (if it ever does) it'd be so dispersed that it wouldn't even measurably raise the background radiation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on February 06, 2022, 05:20:11 pm

but what if it mutates the water molecules into brain eating water monsters

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 05:21:30 pm

I'd be more worried about what it's going to do to the radiotrophs and other weird creatures down there on the ocean's floor in the deepest trenches.

We might create our own Great Old Ones or something :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 05:29:14 pm

Quote

Do explain how a reactor accident could be worse than Chernobyl without leaving the bounds of reality, please. There really aren't many, if any at all.

In descending order of how bad it can get.

Extreme astronomical events.
Terrorism
Extreme meteorological events.
War.
Human failure. (-> chernobyl, at the very bottom of how bad it can get, the top 4 have quite a potential to disseminate material in manner that were not anticipated in normal functioning, though TBF a waring faction would be interested in preserving the usability of the land)



Nice passing over the fairness aspect of outsourcing to the future and the that study about long term impact of uranium mining, as well as all the regulatory challenges implied there-in that go past your beautiful tiny rods.




We all confident they aren't cutting corners after all that has been observable historically, since you like reading up on the subject surely you are aware how laxly the regulatory bodies in japan addressed concerns that had been raised since decades. (some kajigger was supposed to be built 20m higher iirc)




edit:

Quote from: Egan_BW on February 06, 2022, 05:20:11 pm

but what if it mutates the water molecules into brain eating water monsters

It is such a splendid procedure, nothing anticipable on the horizon, if we keep doing it for a few hundreds of years since apparantly nuclear is a legit source of energy. Or let me phrase it in sufficiently whiney terms: are we ok with jeopardising food security in coastal regions given how many poor people depend on fish for nutrition?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2022, 05:49:32 pm

These are only worse in the sense that you've added a scary concept in front of nuclear disaster. You need to be more specific - what is the physical way that can disseminate the nuclear material better than exposed, burning, molten core. Most kinds of damage you can do to a reactor will shut down the reaction, and at worst you end up with large chunks of radioactively hot material scattered around the installation instead of a continent-spanning fallout. For terrorists to cause something like Chernobyl, they'd pretty much have to apply for a job there in the 80s, and do exactly what the crew had done.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 06:10:32 pm

Those are not valid categories of "how bad it can get" because they're not caused by the reactor. That's an absurd argument. You might as well argue that solar power isn't valid because an asteroid strike or the declaration of World War 3 or a supervolcano could shut down all solar power across the globe with the nuclear/volcanic/asteroid-caused winter. In fact it's even more ridiculous than that, because at least there there's an actual property of the power source being caused to fail!

If a nuclear plant gets hit by any of those, is it going to cause more damage than Chernobyl? The answer in the first case is a laughable "how often do you think that could possibly happen?" and then a "no, because the plant's been VAPORIZED"; the second is a "depends on how they do it but probably not", the third we've seen doesn't cause even Chernobyl-level meltdowns, and warfare is likely not going to target the reactors directly because most people are not stupid enough to literally salt the earth by risking even a small radioactive escape when they could just cut the power lines leading from the plant and be done with.

In short, you've confused "insanity/improbability/lunacy/destructiveness" of the CAUSE with the destruction caused by a potential failure. I didn't want you to tell me the various ways a reactor could be made to fail, I asked for a mechanism by which the failure could cause more destruction than the Chernobyl meltdown.

Is it fair to outsource to the future? I mean, if we keep using nuclear reactors then the future is just going to keep the reprocessing and storage facilities running, even ignoring the many, many advances in reactor technology that help to vastly reduce the problem. As for just relying on future maintenance, well, yeah, it isn't the "fairest" but then how many future generations are already on the hook for global warming and its consequences or industrial pollution and whatnot? If we can cut down on the pollution and global warming with nuclear power then we're reducing the problems for the future generations, not making them worse. And as reactor technology and others advance, we should relatively quickly be able to permanently eliminate the problem.

Most rare-earth-element mining has serious and problematic impacts on environment and human populations, they're systemic issues that need to be fixed regardless of whether it's uranium or the various elements that make up computer chips. We aren't going to stop using computer chips over it, we shouldn't stop using nuclear power over it.

Saying "they might cut corners" is an argument against doing LITERALLY ANYTHING, and not one I find particularly compelling, since it is inarguable. Yeah, people do stupid crap quite often, is that a good reason to not do something that is otherwise excellent?


Been ninja'd by a shorter way to say the same thing, but whatever.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on February 06, 2022, 06:13:48 pm

dragdeler, the very real other side of this coin is that nuclear power is necessary in reaction to climate change.

Hydro is the only green tech that supplies consistant and slowly scalable power (as in, you can allow more or less water to pass over turbines at different hours in relation to demand). Solar and wind are reliable, but out of our control when it comes to slowly scaling output. Even with a substantial power grid and storage, we're going to need an additional slow source of energy.

Your options for that are fossil fuels or nuclear. Whatever reservations and objections you have, it's obvious that nuclear is preferable to even natural gas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 06:15:20 pm

So since we know the theoretical challenges of operating it, we can ignore that the reactor exists in the real world with other risk factors. We can also ignore the whole rat-tail of problems starting with mining, getting rid of all the workequipment associated to maintenance, the radioactive material per se, and ending with the dismantlement of a nuclear power plants that yields hundreds of cubic meters of concrete, that granted, isnt a giant problem per se, but still nobody would agree to have burried in their back-yard.

I'm no scientiest but if a meteor can't vaporise a rod, please tell me why it couldn't... Because I am under the impression that even at chernobyl they mostly managed to keep shit submerged which is a HUGE risk mitigation boon (at the cost of human sacrifices, let us not forget). Or let me say it this way: the core being exposed was a matter of days/weeks. After the fires, the premisses were phyisically accessible right? What if they are not after the catastrophic failure.


Are you confident if somebody put their mind to it, they couldn't cause even more damage, say... here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Hague_site)?

Quote

That's an absurd argument. You might as well argue that solar power isn't valid because an asteroid strike or the declaration of World War 3 or a supervolcano could shut down all solar power across the globe with the nuclear/volcanic/asteroid-caused winter.

That's an absurd analogy. Rather I might as well blame enviromental impacts of wind turbines on birds.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 06, 2022, 06:20:30 pm

These are not factors that are being ignored. They are being weighted against the benefits, and are found to be manageable. What you're doing, is assigning infinite weight to those factors, so that no benefits can ever outweigh them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 06:22:56 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 06:15:20 pm

I'm no scientiest but if a meteor can't vaporise a rod, please tell me why it couldn't... Because I am under the impression that even at chernobyl they mostly managed to keep shit submerged which is a HUGE risk mitigation boon (at the cost of human sacrifices, let us not forget). Or let me say it this way: the core being exposed was a matter of days/weeks. After the fires, the premisses were phyisically accessible right? What if they are not after the catastrophic failure.

What the hell are you smoking?

If a METEOR wipes your power plant off the face of the earth, well, we can stop right there because the odds of a meteor directly striking a nuclear facility are literally astronomical, so tiny you might as well forget about it. But maybe we won't stop there, instead let's consider what actually HAPPENS when something large enough to matter hits the surface. The answer is "a huge explosion". On impact, the impactor basically explodes. If this hit a nuclear power plant, it'd spray the material inside over such a wide radius that it would not meaningfully increase radiation. And if it did, who cares? Everyone close enough to get enough radiation to notice so much as an increased risk of cancer has died in a hail of molten rock.

At Chernobyl nothing stayed "submerged". It went full meltdown. The core is in fact not in the reactor vessel right now, it's a still-somewhat-molten mass of "corium" that melted straight out of the bottom of the entire facility. The main reactor vessel completely failed in multiple directions, nothing was contained. The 2000-ton steel lid of the reactor was turned into a missile.

They didn't manage to keep a darn thing "contained" at Chernobyl, and you cannot do worse than "multiple steam explosions that scatter the contents of the reactor around the area".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 06:32:46 pm

Ok so I'll grant you it's the worst possible scenario, because I am not fluid enough on the facts. Can you reassure me that there are no plants that maintain more active cores? If there aren't and it was truely the absolute worst case scenario, we are still talking about whole provinces being rendered undesirable in case something unanticipated happens to the newer designs (such as an exterior catastrophe, I know chernobyl had design flaws). I'm sorry given the size of that barrel I can accept no entity bear the risk, because they won't, they will extract, and the rest will be marked as collateral... You hear me given the stakes I'd trust no entity with this, not even a perfect AI overlord that hasn't been wrong or dropped a screw in 400 years.



edit: seems like everybody has said their piece, but just a few words before I forget about this maddening thing again, hopefully.

Nuclear is not green energy, nuclear is carbon neutral, difference. Green and greenwashing likes to focus on CO2 and the greenhouse effect, well folks, there is a whole periodic table waiting to come bite our mindless consumerism back in the ass. Nuclear is as far from truely being green as it can be, it can turn harmless substances like air and water into life threatening waste at scales no other effect or substance can... It can contaminate things that are generally hard to access for our classic pollutants like oil and heavy metals, and it's more difficult to protect oneself from radiation than from those other pollutants.

There will be another "once in a lifetime" disaster in our lifetime, possibly 2-3 according to your age and nuclear proliferation in an increasingly competitive market. Oopsies will be uttered, long faces will be made, inadequately paid people will deal worst consequences, and a decade later we will be back to arguing "but when we do it, it won't be like that".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 07:27:35 pm

The Chernobyl plant had THREE other reactors operating at the time of the accident, and none of them were compromised and they kept operating after the accident, until the 90s.

Curse the Russians for Chernobyl, because it gave so many people such a great point of discussion for "NUCLEAR BAD!" despite it not being representative of potential failures at all.


By that definition, NO present power sources are "green", as none of them take carbon from the air to provide power. None. And none ever will, because removing CO2 from the atmosphere and turning it into any other chemical is an energy-USING process, not an energy-producing one.

Nuclear power does not turn air into anything deadly, and doesn't really do that to water either unless you're actively trying to create isotopes, and even then as I recall most isotopes you can convert hydrogen and oxygen to don't pose a serious radiation threat unless you suffer extremely long-term exposure, which would again require actual INTENT to cause.

Please stop conflating "radiation" with "acute radiation poisoning". You can receive a small dose of radiation and by completely fine, you can receive a moderate dose and suffer only an elevated risk of cancer. Only if you are, say, directly exposed to the actual molten core of a failed reactor would you suffer serious and immediate effects. If you cover a huge geographical area, you can only ever get SMALL doses in any portion of that area, because there is simply never that much radioactive material involved.

We're not talking about widespread death with nuclear accidents, we're talking about widespread elevations in cancer risk and the damage incurred to the actual reactor plant and the people who are there when it happens.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 07:43:44 pm

Oh so 1 reactor suffices wreck up a province (even if the area of effect might not scale up massively, at least the lethality would, increasing difficulties to contain the event).

The issue is the more prepared you are for each scenario, the more that cuts into your bottom line. They will have to compete against forms of energy that are way less cost and maintenance intensive after an initial investment.

You said this earlier, to me it reads like a searing indictment:

Quote

It is inexpensive because of the INCREDIBLE power density of the fuel. It's a hell of a lot of money to BUILD the plant, but after that it's, compared to natural gas or coal, almost free to fuel, so an operating nuclear reactor rakes in money at a ludicrous rate. The reason they require subsidies is because investors are short-sighted and don't want to wait five to ten years for their investment to start raking in the money, and they fear the costs associated with the periodic refurbishment, reconditioning, and upgrades to the reactors.

translation: once you get somebody to pay for it's expenses and or consequences, it's a neat moneycow








I'll bring up my edit from my earlier post here, and mark in bold the part that relates to the second paragraph.

Nuclear is not green energy, nuclear is carbon neutral, difference. Green and greenwashing likes to focus on CO2 and the greenhouse effect, well folks, there is a whole periodic table waiting to come bite our mindless consumerism back in the ass. Nuclear is as far from truely being green as it can be, it can turn harmless substances like air and water into life threatening waste at scales no other effect or substance can... It can contaminate things that are generally hard to access for our classic pollutants like oil and heavy metals, and it's more difficult to protect oneself from radiation than from those other pollutants.

There will be another "once in a lifetime" disaster in our lifetime, possibly 2-3 according to your age and nuclear proliferation in an increasingly competitive market. Oopsies will be uttered, long faces will be made, inadequately paid people will deal worst consequences, and a decade later we will be back to arguing "but when we do it, it won't be like that".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 08:01:52 pm

No, the maintenance and operating costs DO NOT outweigh the profits, but it's much faster to start making money if you build, say, a natural gas plant, than if you build a nuclear plant.

It's unlikely that we WILL see another Chernobyl, because everybody knows how it happens and desperately wants to avoid it. Chernobyl wasn't a "once in a lifetime" disaster, it was a "once, period" disaster. Also ahahahaha "nuclear proliferation" I wish. No really, I wish, nuclear power is slowly being cut out of the market, leaving us ever more dependent on fossil fuels that kill more people with their emissions than nuclear does even if you include the accidents. Oh well.

I replied to the rest of the edit in an edit to my post right after I made it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 08:09:35 pm

Quote

No, the maintenance and operating costs DO NOT outweigh the profits

Quote

Nuclear waste is certainly not dealt with appropriately but people believe that it's a lot worse than it actually is.

Speaks for itself, eventhough I was fair enough to quote the whole sentence. Unlike citing supervolcanoes when I did not list geological events, because I am fair enough to recognise that some errors ARE entirely avoidable.

Quote

"nuclear proliferation" I wish. No really, I wish

Sounds like emotional investment, tbf me too, tends to happens when something threatens my habitat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 08:11:28 pm

So, what, a supervolcano is too unrealistic but A FLIPPING ASTEROID STRIKE isn't? That is absurd.


I'm not sure why you paired those two quotes since they are literally talking about two separate things.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 08:26:38 pm

No but in context only this makes sense: a supervolcano would impair solars' ability to produce electricity. Which makes it a worse analogy because apples and oranges, no power but at least no additional problem. My somewhat ungenerous reading is more like: you cite supervolcanoes to dillute my argument with another bombastic claim... I have an idea about the odds of a meteorite hitting an exact spot, not exactly something to loose sleep over, but I didn't I didn't latch on to "who cares" either, because had there been a plant in chelyabinsk right were it landed, those people would have died of radiation exposure in a hospital bed (AND EVEN THEIR CORPSES WOULD HAVE CONSTITUTED A NOT SO MINOR WASTE DISPOSAL PROBLEM), instead of "only" some cuts from flying window pieces.

Separate things?  So now you are litterally arguing that waste disposal SHOULD be decoupled from their bottom line?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2022, 08:33:51 pm

The Chelyabinsk asteroid didn't even touch the ground, it detonated in air. Therefore it wouldn't have compromised a nuclear plant and it wouldn't have led to any fallout. Not sure why you've latched onto the supervolcano point as something meaningful, honestly. It was only meant to demonstrate the absurdity of suggesting that any given power source should be proof against a literal apocalypse. You would never worry about making solar power volcano-proof or making a nuclear reactor asteroid-proof, any more than we worry about protecting chess games against cruise missiles or antitank munitions.


No but the fact that it isn't dealt with properly DOES NOT MEAN that the cost of doing so must be so high as to make nuclear unreasonable. Hence why I didn't make that assumption despite suspecting that that might be the point.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 06, 2022, 08:41:51 pm

Quote

No but the fact that it isn't dealt with properly DOES NOT MEAN that the cost of doing so must be so high as to make nuclear unreasonable. Hence why I didn't make that assumption despite suspecting that that might be the point.

But see that doesn't leave us with many interpretations. Are our leaders so fucked in the head that it is just an ideological choice to neglect this? Lazyness? I'm sorry but if lazyness is a factor we can give up on the dream of a safe nuclear plant right here right now.

Quote

You would never worry about making solar power volcano-proof or making a nuclear reactor asteroid-proof, any more than we worry about protecting chess games against cruise missiles or antitank munitions.

I don't because if something pulverizes them, I am perfectly able to deal with the entirity of the consequences, using a broom.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 06, 2022, 09:45:03 pm

Molten salt reactors will be able to burn almost all of the extremely long term radioactive waste, like plutonium and americium.
China's building the first reactors already.

Once the world adopts these new reactors, the (old) nuclear waste problem will be solved (and when the old reactors are phased out, no new waste of the 100000s of years type will be created). There will still be some radioactive waste that will stay dangerously radioactive for longer than any civilization ever existed, but it will only be a tiny fraction of what is produced now. And that indeed is already very little if we're speaking volume. The vast majority of the waste will only remain radioactive for a few decades to a few centuries.

The chance of terrorists blowing up a reactor or making a dirty bomb with stolen waste is present but very small. I think much smaller than terrorists buying a nuke or chemical weapon from a failed state or corrupt regime. Terrorism is a threat anyhow. More civilian nuclear power is not going to increase that threat.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on February 06, 2022, 10:08:55 pm

Nuclear power is decidedly NOT cheap.  Comparing it to renewables (in us$/megawatt-hours), levelised costs of electricity:

Nuclear 131-204
Wind - onshore 26-50
Solar PV - rooftop residential 147-221
Solar PV - rooftop commercial and industrial 67-180
Solar PV - community 59-91
Solar PV - crystalline utility scale 30-41
Solar PV - thin film utility scale 28-37
Solar thermal tower with storage 126-156
Geothermal 56-93

It gets far worse when capital costs are considered (us$/kilowatt-hour):

Nuclear 7800-12800
Wind - onshore 1025-1350
Solar PV - rooftop residential 2475-2850
Solar PV - rooftop commercial and industrial 1400-2850
Solar PV - community 1200-1450
Solar PV - crystalline utility scale 800-950
Solar PV - thin film utility scale 800-950
Solar thermal tower with storage 6000-9090
Geothermal 4325-5575

(source for figues Lazard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazard) (2021): https://www.lazard.com/media/451881/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-150-vf.pdf (https://www.lazard.com/media/451881/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-150-vf.pdf) - pdf download link)

There is an issue with base-load/storage capacity with regard to renewables which delphonso rightly mentions.  However the lower production costs leave lots of overhead for storage inefficiencies, something like say green hydrogen.  Investment dollars would be better directed into the battery issue rather than into the continually failed and failing nuclear cycle.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 07, 2022, 08:15:58 am

Despite our government re-opening the schools a few weeks ago, a lot of children are still not getting education.
Too many teachers are in mandatory quarantaine because they, or someone they were in contact with for more than 15 minutes tested positive.
There's not enough spare teachers to fill the gap, so entire schools are sent home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on February 07, 2022, 06:09:40 pm

feelotraveller, completely reasonable stance. In my view, scrapping all fossil fuels and putting in nuclear plants immediately is still the best move, but the longer people drag their feet on it, the better the battery tech becomes and the more possible it is for a fully green energy grid to exist. (Reminder that the longer it takes to do either, the more carbon we pump into the air.) Ideally, though, we'd be able to pull it off with, as you said, things like green hydrogen cells (hydrogen primarily coming as a side product of fossil fuel refinement, now) or other semi-green energies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 09, 2022, 01:20:11 pm

A new law is about to be approved by dutch parliament unless something unexpected happens.
There seems to be a large majority in favour of making the abortion pill easily and freely available at the GP's office, no questions asked.
Last month a new law was approved already that got rid of the mandatory 5 day 'thinking period' between a woman asking for an abortion and being able to get one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: McTraveller on February 09, 2022, 02:59:51 pm

Quote from: feelotraveller on February 06, 2022, 10:08:55 pm

It gets far worse when capital costs are considered (us$/kilowatt-hour):

Solar PV - rooftop residential 2475-2850

Those numbers can't be correct - some kind of order-of-magnitude scaling error?  I mean a system for my house is probably like $15,000 for a 6kW system, averaging maybe 3kW-hr/day output over the year, or about 1100 kW-hr/year.  Even if it only ran for a single year, that would be only $13/kW-hr.  If it ran for 10 years it would be $1.30/kW-hr.

Still expensive, mind you, since my retail rate is less than $0.20/kW-hr.

EDIT: I also don't believe the "levelised cost" number for residential PV; I don't know how you'd get down to $0.147-$0.221 per kW-hr.  If I could get costs that low, I'd do it "tomorrow"!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: feelotraveller on February 10, 2022, 02:46:52 am

Quote from: McTraveller on February 09, 2022, 02:59:51 pm

Quote from: feelotraveller on February 06, 2022, 10:08:55 pm

It gets far worse when capital costs are considered (us$/kilowatt-hour):

Solar PV - rooftop residential 2475-2850

Those numbers can't be correct - some kind of order-of-magnitude scaling error?  I mean a system for my house is probably like $15,000 for a 6kW system, averaging maybe 3kW-hr/day output over the year, or about 1100 kW-hr/year.  Even if it only ran for a single year, that would be only $13/kW-hr.  If it ran for 10 years it would be $1.30/kW-hr.

Still expensive, mind you, since my retail rate is less than $0.20/kW-hr.

That's a transcription error on my part, the 'hour' should not be be there.  Apologies for that.  (Your situation fits: $15,000/6 = $2,500 per kW.)

Quote

EDIT: I also don't believe the "levelised cost" number for residential PV; I don't know how you'd get down to $0.147-$0.221 per kW-hr.  If I could get costs that low, I'd do it "tomorrow"!

You'd have to take that up with Lazard.  No inaccuracy in my reporting of their figures.  Still it's their commerical business as a financial advisory firm, and a damn big one at that, so I kinda reckon they  at least sort of know their stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 10, 2022, 06:25:25 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 09, 2022, 01:20:11 pm

A new law is about to be approved by dutch parliament unless something unexpected happens.
There seems to be a large majority in favour of making the abortion pill easily and freely available at the GP's office, no questions asked.
Last month a new law was approved already that got rid of the mandatory 5 day 'thinking period' between a woman asking for an abortion and being able to get one.

I love the similarity to hand guns implied there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 10, 2022, 06:39:31 pm

In USA context perhaps, but I don't really see how this is related to handguns.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: McTraveller on February 10, 2022, 07:10:29 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 10, 2022, 06:39:31 pm

In USA context perhaps, but I don't really see how this is related to handguns.

In the spirit of a terrible jokes thread:

In one you are worried about getting shot; in the other you are worried because someone shot off.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 11, 2022, 09:43:43 am

A "thinking period" for buying a gun, despite there being no evidence you had ever planned on committing a crime with that gun, let alone killing anyone.

No "thinking period" for getting an abortion, despite the fact that you're knowingly and intentionally taking a human life¹ in the process.

The human mind sure is fascinating.

---

¹ Life, as defined by biology. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life#Biology)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 11, 2022, 09:47:48 am

Yeah it's ridiculous, why have a thinking period when 2 sentences suffice to know whom I want to shoot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One is a single purpose tool, the purpose being murder, the other is a fact of life that humans transcended...


Seriously can we make people forget their entire vocabulary somehow, it would probably for the better... I invest huge efforts to create the worst word combinations but my flithiest filth can not surpass what some people fart out of their mouth...


... like I do hate contractions for hours on end, 6 days a week and all I manage is offensively loud farts that are entirely odourless on second inspection, how do they manage something that is so silent, yet so stinky

Quote from: da_nang on February 11, 2022, 09:43:43 am

Life, as defined by biology. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life#Biology)

Damn I realized I don't ejaculate virusses nor prions nor viroids, better get down with the pregnancy as punishment for sex model, before I anger the beardy boy in the sky


FUCK EVEN BETTER is bleeding haram? Are periods murder?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2022, 01:09:30 pm

Geesh. In the past few days, a dutch special ops commando was arrested, and a high ranking chief of police was arrested as well, for aiding and leaking to criminal organisations.

I guess Riduan T. wasn't kidding when he told his criminal partners via his criminal (and arrested) lawyer that he was planning an escape with the help of special forces style operatives and inside information.

Our constitutional state has been pretty darn shaken the past few years. Murdered lawyers, murdered crime journalist, murdered family member of crown witnesses, a anti tank launcher firing at a newspaper office, military commando style gold robbery... That's so not my country, shit like that only happens in dangerous countries like the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 11, 2022, 04:06:42 pm

To be fair, the only reason The US gets such publicity for the awful stuff that occurs there is due to the country being quite big with a lot of people, and a media that is allowed to tell the world when something awful occurs.
It's mostly a fairly decent place.  It's just that being an Asshole gets you elected.

It's easy to run a country with less than thirty million people.  Try keeping it together when you got 10x that many.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 11, 2022, 04:26:12 pm

Fair enough.
With dangerous countries I meant countries where civilians are allowed to walk around on the streets armed with guns.
The thought alone of walking around in such a place terrifies me, as much as I would love to see some of the nice and beautiful places and folks in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 11, 2022, 04:58:53 pm

Quote from: EuchreJack on February 11, 2022, 04:06:42 pm

It's easy to run a country with less than thirty million people.  Try keeping it together when you got 10x that many.

(https://i.imgflip.com/4gi25a.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 11, 2022, 05:09:03 pm

Indeed. China and India have my condolences.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 12, 2022, 03:50:07 am

Quote from: EuchreJack on February 11, 2022, 05:09:03 pm

Indeed. China and India have my condolences.

Your condolences have been noted and converted to social credit points.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 12, 2022, 04:45:16 am

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on February 12, 2022, 03:50:07 am

Your condolences have been noted and converted to social credit points.

+20 social credit. You have been rewarded some bing qilin

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: wierd on February 12, 2022, 04:49:40 am

There arent enough points to mend my social credit in glorious china.

I have dared suggest that the western slander ghat he glorious president xi and a certain disney bear have an uncanny resemblance might have merit.

;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 07:01:03 am

Our Dutch government,and the German, Belgian, British and Canadian governments now also have urged all their citizens to immediatly leave the Ukraine, stating the safety situation is rapidly declining.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/kabinet-roept-nederlanders-op-om-onmiddellijk-te-vertrekken-uit-oekraine~b5171fee/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 10:30:27 am

We now have a trucker protest in The Hague. They have blockaded the city centre for hours.
The city mayor has ordered them to leave, or face their trucks being towed away and the costs charged to their person, saying that they have been given enough time to make their protest statements, despite their action being unannounced and without permit (yes, in our Vogon country, if you want to protest, you go to the city municipality, state that you want to protest and where, how many people you are expecting, and if you brought the correct colour of application form, the city will give you a permit, possibly with location restrictions).

The truckers seem unimpressed and most say they will not be going anywhere.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on February 12, 2022, 10:53:28 am

This might be a good time to try to obsolesce the trucker profession by greatly investing in freight trains and rail networks. They consume a disproportionate amount of gasoline compared to everyone else, and do the vast majority of the wear-n-tear road damage, atleast here in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 12, 2022, 10:55:54 am

Cant we send them all home on a technicality? Surely those are not private vehicles... They been targeting "work"cars that are registered in luxenburg over here (there are way too many)


Give em a big ticket and also let the insurances know how poorly they comply.









It would be joshua, but my country for one, dismantled huge parts of it's railway system to turn them into tourism bike lanes through nature. Many people in the region think they started salivating when they did the math on how much steel they could sell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 11:52:06 am

Meanwhile in Paris, the French police have sent 7200 police officers to clear the Champs Elysée of truckers and protestors. Tear gas has been deployed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 12, 2022, 02:32:31 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on February 12, 2022, 10:53:28 am

This might be a good time to try to obsolesce the trucker profession by greatly investing in freight trains and rail networks. They consume a disproportionate amount of gasoline compared to everyone else, and do the vast majority of the wear-n-tear road damage, atleast here in the US.

I doubt they'll get obsolesced by rail due to logistics.

Production Plant -> Rail Station -> Rail Station -> Distribution Center -> Final Destination.

Now, self-driving trucks on the other hand...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 03:55:53 pm

In a slightly surprising turn of events, three out of four of our major government coaltion parties (VVD,CDA,D66) heeded the call from opposition party leader Jesse Klaver (Groen Links) to firmly state that they will not form any coalition with our country's two populist right wing anti-immigrant (PVV, lead by Geert Wilders) and alt-right similar and scarier nutters (FvD, lead by Thierry Baudet) parties.
This means they are excluded from governing on municipality level, on provincial level and future national government by cordon sanitaire.

The popularity of the two populist parties combined has been scarily growing. Public outrage was felt a month or so ago, when a FvD spokesman threatened a fellow member of parliament that 'your time will come and you will face tribunals' in a discussion about covid.

The current situation is part of the aftermath. The road to fascism is still a big NO-GO area.
In today's words of minster of Finance Sigrid Kaag (D66): "we will not govern with extremists".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on February 12, 2022, 04:35:09 pm

Quote from: da_nang on February 12, 2022, 02:32:31 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on February 12, 2022, 10:53:28 am

This might be a good time to try to obsolesce the trucker profession by greatly investing in freight trains and rail networks. They consume a disproportionate amount of gasoline compared to everyone else, and do the vast majority of the wear-n-tear road damage, atleast here in the US.

I doubt they'll get obsolesced by rail due to logistics.

Production Plant -> Rail Station -> Rail Station -> Distribution Center -> Final Destination.

Now, self-driving trucks on the other hand...

Self-driving cars/trucks are seriously a pipe dream. There's so many potential points of failure, so many technical hurdles, so much potential for sabotage and incompetence, that self-driving anything seems to me to be totally and completely infeasible.

It would be much easier to rebuild every city with superior forms of public transit and railways. To use the logistical diagram you used, it's more than possible for the buildings to be forcefully combined.

Production Plant + Rail Station -> Rail Station + Distribution Center -> Final Destination.

The idea being to cut out the less efficient and more expensive trucks and cars whereever possible, and to use the more efficient and less expensive trains whereever possible, to maximize longterm sustainability. Once things are further down the logistical path, large trucks are no longer needed and can be replaced on the local level with smaller and less damaging forms of transport.

That sort of rebuilding and restructuring of society however... even if we weren't dealing with cantankerous and selfish Americans, that's a mean feat for anyone.

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 03:55:53 pm

In a slightly surprising turn of events, three out of four of our major government coaltion parties (VVD,CDA,D66) heeded the call from opposition party leader Jesse Klaver (Groen Links) to firmly state that they will not form any coalition with our country's two populist right wing anti-immigrant (PVV, lead by Geert Wilders) and alt-right similar and scarier nutters (FvD, lead by Thierry Baudet) parties.
This means they are excluded from governing on municipality level, on provincial level and future national government by cordon sanitaire.

The popularity of the two populist parties combined has been scarily growing. Public outrage was felt a month or so ago, when a FvD spokesman threatened a fellow member of parliament that 'your time will come and you will face tribunals' in a discussion about covid.

The current situation is part of the aftermath. The road to fascism is still a big NO-GO area.
In today's words of minster of Finance Sigrid Kaag (D66): "we will not govern with extremists".

Man, I woulda thought EU Governments were way more sane and chill. I didn't know that even the saner countries were having to deal with an uptick in Fascist sentiment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 12, 2022, 04:36:04 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 12, 2022, 10:30:27 am

We now have a trucker protest in The Hague. They have blockaded the city centre for hours.
The city mayor has ordered them to leave, or face their trucks being towed away and the costs charged to their person, saying that they have been given enough time to make their protest statements, despite their action being unannounced and without permit (yes, in our Vogon country, if you want to protest, you go to the city municipality, state that you want to protest and where, how many people you are expecting, and if you brought the correct colour of application form, the city will give you a permit, possibly with location restrictions).

The truckers seem unimpressed and most say they will not be going anywhere.

Believe it or not, we have the same protest by truckers going on at the US- Canadian border.
And in the US we have the same laws regarding protests. It's what distinguishes a lawful protest from an unlawful one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on February 12, 2022, 08:26:16 pm

Quote from: EuchreJack on February 12, 2022, 04:36:04 pm

And in the US we have the same laws regarding protests. It's what distinguishes a lawful protest from an unlawful one.

"If the police shoot you, you're violent and deserve it"?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on February 12, 2022, 10:54:51 pm

Nobody should be dismantling and forcibly breaking peaceful protests. Whether you agree with them or not. This is highly problematic. I see a lot of people talking about the importance of civil disobedience and the protection of demonstrations while it's things they have knee-jerk support for. Now that it's something that doesn't align with their particular views it's all about obsoleting the profession and sending them all home and whatnot.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 13, 2022, 06:29:43 am

The wheat is usually easy to separate from the chaff... The kind of activists I'm sympathetic to, they'll usually have structured demands, possibly figureheads or non-profits, that work out those demands and make information about it available to the public.


Then there are those bastard fronts, that have nor hand nor foot nor head on the shoulders. They will usually protest for something asininly unanimous, or just plain impossible such as:

-"Against holy warriors" (who was even for it in the first place raise your hand, might as well do a protest against bad weather)
-No matter how much milk we overproduce you need to guarantee a good price for it

The thing is if these are your concerns there are ways to achieve your goal without antagonising the public for nothing:

-Religious organisations that organise explicitly cross-religious events.
-Farmers over here stuck together, stopped selling their milk on the open markets, opened their own production chain, everybody now buys their milk, the people WANT to drink the milk from the cows they see looking out their windows, not some industrial farming product from far away. Unless you're like that poor that you rely on discounter ramen for nutrition, you buy their milk, everbody here understands the importance of it .




Now to our truckers: if they feel that persecuted by this "new world order" they wouldn't be holding their ugly faces into cameras, they'd be organising a black market like the french resistance, where people can shop and cough on eachother however they want. But they are thowing a temper tantrum, and in the act of doing so, are barely able to contain their larger political worldframe brushing off on the thing. If their cause was legitimate, which is it not, they'd still be doing it a disservice, it's not like anybody lacks awareness of the existence of the pandemic, or health mesures.




A good rule of thumb: if there material involved that is tens of tons heavy and tenthousands of dollars expensive, you are not looking at helpless individuals.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 13, 2022, 06:41:07 am

'A fascist up-tick' or growing discontent at restrictive covid measures?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 13, 2022, 06:45:37 am

I know that much, in my professional milieu, there is more people annoyed than people who understand the value of the measures. You know they do? They simply don't comply. It's trivially easy to lead the simplest life and avoid annoyances... Just put up a show in a few edgecases for 5 minutes.


It seems to me those who protest do not protest for their personal peace, they protest because they want everybody to act like them. Feeling entitled to all the bells and whistles of a functional modern society, which we cannot guarantee without the safety measures.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 13, 2022, 07:16:02 am

Sorry for the doublepost but I am reminded of an anecdote from work.

There was this blonde lady that allways made a scene for her mask (in one of the recycling centers where it is actually enforced, 8km north, 12km south and 10km west there are centers that do not enforce it as well) the colleague who gives a fuck about covid allways butted head with her. At some point he used to seal the entry when she was on the park, told the people waiting miss important couldn't be bothered to put on a mask and he needed to enforce safety measures lol.

Anyway since the guy who cares and me burned out a bit, we started completly ignoring her, she is like a ghost now. Weirdly enough she started to wear her mask.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 13, 2022, 08:34:47 am

Quote from: bloop_bleep on February 12, 2022, 10:54:51 pm

Nobody should be dismantling and forcibly breaking peaceful protests. Whether you agree with them or not. This is highly problematic. I see a lot of people talking about the importance of civil disobedience and the protection of demonstrations while it's things they have knee-jerk support for. Now that it's something that doesn't align with their particular views it's all about obsoleting the profession and sending them all home and whatnot.

I tend to agree with this.
What makes the truckers so unsympathetic is that they're disrupting our Sacred Supply Chains.  When the stores fail to have the snacks we so desperately desire, it's their fault.

This is flawed logic, since it is only because of the truckers that we have said tasty cakes.  They're basically workers on strike due to what they view as unfair working conditions.  They're no different than the Amazon workers that were on strike.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2022, 08:50:40 am

Ther trucker protest in the Hague has been dispersed, mostly peacefully except for a few idiots that thought it'd be nice to kick police horses, those morons tasted nightsticks.

The truckers vow to return for a next demonstration.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 13, 2022, 09:41:07 am

Supporting Trucker Protestors with a mini-protest in Euro Truck Simulator 2:
(https://i.ibb.co/DMBGzhd/Support-Protestors.jpg)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 13, 2022, 09:42:27 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 13, 2022, 08:50:40 am

Ther trucker protest in the Hague has been dispersed, mostly peacefully except for a few idiots that thought it'd be nice to kick police horses, those morons tasted nightsticks.

The truckers vow to return for a next demonstration.

Yeah, don't hurt the nice horseys.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on February 13, 2022, 11:32:29 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 13, 2022, 08:50:40 am

Ther trucker protest in the Hague has been dispersed, mostly peacefully except for a few idiots that thought it'd be nice to kick police horses, those morons tasted nightsticks.

You have to be a very special kind of idiot to kick horses...
have they never seen what happens when horses kick back?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 13, 2022, 11:43:01 am

They are very lucky that dutch police horses are really well trained to not kick people unless instructed to.

The police horse training is controversional though. Normal people who would do to horses what they do to them at police training would get prison and institutionalization in a psych ward for extreme animal cruelty.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 14, 2022, 01:18:59 am

It's not controversial. They're work animals, not pets. If somebody thinks an animal that serves a purpose should be treated by the same standards of animals we keep for no other reason than our own enjoyment then they're fools.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 14, 2022, 04:06:19 am

Well, Police Horses are Police, and they need to be properly trained.
I'm sure the Police Humans are also treated inhumanely during training.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 14, 2022, 04:15:46 am

Quote from: scriver on February 14, 2022, 01:18:59 am

It's not controversial. They're work animals, not pets. If somebody thinks an animal that serves a purpose should be treated by the same standards of animals we keep for no other reason than our own enjoyment then they're fools.

Yeah you're right. Once we start comparing them to the steaks on our plate they have a gloriously fine life of being kicked, cut, and deafened by explosives.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2022, 12:54:25 pm

A majority of Dutch political parties is preparing to propose a new law, that makes offering or advertising gay conversion therapy a criminal offense, punishable by a fine of 25000 euros and 1 year in prison, up to two years in prison for repeat offenders.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 15, 2022, 01:09:03 pm

Offering it across the board or just for use against children?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2022, 01:55:49 pm

Not just children, all included

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 15, 2022, 04:13:11 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 15, 2022, 12:54:25 pm

A majority of Dutch political parties is preparing to propose a new law, that makes offering or advertising gay conversion therapy a criminal offense, punishable by a fine of 25000 euros and 1 year in prison, up to two years in prison for repeat offenders.

I wouldn't be surprised if my state in the USA passed similar legislation.  Not a bad idea, actually.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Enemy post on February 16, 2022, 01:21:04 am

I don’t think it properly gets across how I feel when I say that I hope that Ukraine is alright tomorrow.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2022, 04:53:50 am

Farmers are angry, again.
Because of the mandatory quarantaine of chickens because of the bird flu, chicken farmers are no longer allowed to sell their eggs with the 'free range' quality mark (because their chickens can't go outside). They will have to sell them as animal-unfriendly eggs, getting a lower price for their eggs.
Farmers demand compensation from the government.
Regulations state that eggs of a chicken that has been inside for 16 weeks can no longer be sold as a free range egg.
The price drop is losing our average chicken farmer 25000 euros per month.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on February 16, 2022, 07:08:39 am

what kind of average chicken farmer was making more than 25k euros a goddamn month?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2022, 07:13:33 am

It's all a matter of scale. We don't have small scale agriculture here except for the growing trend of biological/ecological farming.
All farmers over here are multimillionaires (because of the size of their business).
Last year we had 100 million chickens in the Netherlands. Farms with a million or more chickens aren't unheard of.

Also note that the 25k per month is not personal wage, it's business loss. The farmers want compensation for their business, not for their personal account.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on February 16, 2022, 07:27:45 am

I guess, but like... cry me a river at a multimillion dollar business losing out on less than a couple hundred thousand a year, y'know? Someone still making bank and just making less bank is not exactly the most sympathetic position in the world :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: askovdk on February 16, 2022, 07:28:52 am

Quote from: Enemy post on February 16, 2022, 01:21:04 am

I don’t think it properly gets across how I feel when I say that I hope that Ukraine is alright tomorrow.

Yes, it's a very strange time, and it feels impossible to get a 'real' picture of the situation.
I wonder if any London bookmakers are taking bets on an invasion happening, - if so, then that may be the best indicator, as politicians and medias can spread cheap words, but a backstreet bookie must stick to the actual facts.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 16, 2022, 07:36:03 am

I didn't want to be the one who says it, but yes look at these sums, and look at what their equip costs, and how regularly they are buying new equip (better to have a new traktor than pay taxes right?!).

There is often a lot of crying on a very high standard of living with these farmers. I know folks who have like 11 cows only to get a couple a thousand bucks in subvention money each year - I reckon most "small farms" are only that by now.... And the big ones? Just look at how many assets they own.


I do understand that farming is essential for our survival, but really, many of them are entitled pricks, I'm not gonna even touch the can of worms of how negligently they threat their giant heaps of garbage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2022, 10:00:06 am

Yeah. I know right.
I usually can't find much sympathy for farmers blocking roads with tractors, threatening politicians, and a year or two ago even drove a tractor into the door of a provincial senate house, all because the government is offering them a millions of euros fair market price for their company, in an effort to reduce CO2 and nitrogen emissions.

They also brought this whole bird flu quarantaine risk upon themselves. It should be a calculated business risk by now, after decades of repeated quarantines and exterminations. The only caveat is that food distributors don't want to pay more for eggs.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 16, 2022, 10:26:46 am

The squirrel bridge in The Hague is finally being used by squirrels since it was built 10 years ago.
Wildlife cameras counted somewhat over 400 squirrels using the bridge in 2021.
The bridge cost 144 thousand euros, which was paid for by the nature compensation that was paid by the government for moving the US embassy from The Hague to Wassenaar.

After 10 years of barely seeing any use, squirrels seem to have figured out that using the bridge for park hopping prevents them from getting killed by cars. That, or the 400 sightings were one and the same squirrel, and the rest is still roadkill.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 16, 2022, 12:45:13 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 16, 2022, 10:26:46 am

The squirrel bridge in The Hague is finally being used by squirrels since it was built 10 years ago.
Wildlife cameras counted somewhat over 400 squirrels using the bridge in 2021.
The bridge cost 144 thousand euros, which was paid for by the nature compensation that was paid by the government for moving the US embassy from The Hague to Wassenaar.

After 10 years of barely seeing any use, squirrels seem to have figured out that using the bridge for park hopping prevents them from getting killed by cars. That, or the 400 sightings were one and the same squirrel, and the rest is still roadkill.

Knowing squirrels, its probably the second one.  They're quick little buggers and tied into routine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 17, 2022, 05:53:38 am

The Russian ambassador in the Netherlands threatened our prime minister Rutte with the use of nuclear weapons, if we aid Ukraine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2022, 06:20:56 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 17, 2022, 05:53:38 am

The Russian ambassador in the Netherlands threatened our prime minister Rutte with the use of nuclear weapons, if we aid Ukraine.

Bruh moment

Putin really has brought this on himself. It was already NATO policy to not expand into the Ukraine. Yet he dishonours Russia's commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty, so now the West is forced into supporting Ukraine, and cannot trust Putin to honour any deal. It's like a finger trap

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 17, 2022, 06:22:52 am

I am horrified. This is not just some political commentator going yadda yadda, it's the frigging official ambassador threatening our head of state (on national Dutch tv, 'Nieuwsuur').

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 17, 2022, 06:26:30 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 17, 2022, 06:22:52 am

I am horrified. This is not just some political commentator going yadda yadda, it's the frigging official ambassador threatening our head of state (on national Dutch tv, 'Nieuwsuur').

Just a bit of banter

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 18, 2022, 08:42:11 am

Geesh, storm Eunice ripped part of the roof off the O2 Arena in London.
It's starting to get real windy here too, although I think it won't be nearly as bad here in the south of the Netherlands as it is and will be in the north.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 18, 2022, 09:33:37 am

It's great, 5 visitors so far today,  I got DF and south park, wouldn't mind to see something fly through something else, as long as there will be no trees blocking the roads where I'll drive home.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 18, 2022, 10:53:37 am

The roof of the ADO stadium in The Hague also was blown off.
So far, 2 people dead in the Netherlands. One got crushed by a tree in his car, the other got crushed by a tree while walking.
Stay indoors folks, it's might not be hurricane level, but it's not to be messed with regardless.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 18, 2022, 11:11:36 am

Good, I am not at home because of idiots like that. Gotta tryhard tryhard try the fuck hard.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 19, 2022, 04:52:49 am

The mayor of Rotterdam wants to completely change the customs at the harbor.
He wants that every ship container with fruits coming from South America scanned with röntgen equipment to search for cocaine, instead of randomly checking around 5%. EDIT: 0,5%

This way he hopes to put an end to the massive cocaine smuggling spike that we have been dealing with the past years.

That, and because the harbor of Antwerp is also going to do 100% scanning, he says we cannot wait with also doing that, or all cocaine trafficking will move to Rotterdam, where it is already infecting the youth in the poor neighborhoods with crime.

It will mean fruit prices are going to rise though.

EDIT: one problem with the röntgen scanners though: They are so strong that if a human goes through the scanner, they have about 1 hour to phone home before they die of acute radiation poisoning. So there are probably going to be some accidents with human trafficking containers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2022, 05:50:02 am

Quote from: martinuzz on February 19, 2022, 04:52:49 am

.

EDIT: one problem with the röntgen scanners though: They are so strong that if a human goes through the scanner, they have about 1 hour to phone home before they die of acute radiation poisoning. So there are probably going to be some accidents with human trafficking containers.

I found this bit dubious (ie: the public hazard probably would contradict EU law) so I googled it and according to dr-customs its not

Quote

The scanning installation is very well secured; the installation will not be switched on if there are people inside the tunnel. The level of radiation is far less than the statutorily allowed maximum. So it is harmless to people and to goods. Food stuffs or electronic equipment are not at risk either

https://dr-customs.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/containerscan.pdf

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 19, 2022, 05:55:45 am

Well, that's what the customs officer operating the thing told the journalist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 19, 2022, 09:15:53 am

Who is right? EU regulations and official specifications for the scanner, or some guy who heard it from some guy. You decide!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 19, 2022, 10:18:51 am

Uhm, I think you misunderstood my post.
I didn't state that I believe a journalist that apparently got pranked by a customs officer over official regulations.
I just said that I got it from the newspaper article.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2022, 01:33:55 pm

In Amsterdam, a hostage situation is ongoing in an Apple store. On social media a picture ciculates of a man pointing a gun at another man inside the store.
The police have cordonned off most of the city centre of Amsterdam, special forces are on site and assessing the situation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 22, 2022, 05:43:08 pm

After nearly 6 hours, the hostages have been freed. The hostage taker has been hit at high speed by a police car.
Heavy armed police are now holding his possibly corpse under fire while a robot searches for explosives (in the video of the hostage situation, the guy holding the gun looks like he is wearing a full bomb dismantling armor suit, or a very, very large suicide vest under his coat. That, or he is really, really fat.

EDIT: Apparently, the hostage was sent by the hostage taker to retrieve a packet at the door, and made a run for it. The hostage taker chased him and was then hit by a police car.

The hostage taker has been taken by the police. It is unknown if he's alive or dead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 03:52:35 am

So.. The guy at the Apple store was an Apple customer, a 27 year man from Amsterdam. He had entered the store, put a gun on a random's head and asked for 200 million euros in crypto valuta.
When the police arrived, he immediatly opened fire on them with an automatic weapon.

Then the police closed down half the city centre of Amsterdam and walled it off with fencing.

Negotiation teams tried to de-escalate and negotiate. The hostage taker then threatened to blow himself up.

Then, after about 6 hours, he demanded water, and when that was brought by a robot, the hostage ran off and he chased.
Police could not let him walk the streets because he had threatened to blow himself up so they ran him over at high speed. I suppose that was the safer option. Shooting in an area that has many innocent bystanders and residentials is not wise.
Then a robot searched him for explosives. None were found, it was a bluff.

He is in hospital now with severe injuries, waiting to either die or be arrested.

4 more hostages have been freed from the Apple store, they were hiding in a closet for 6 hours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on February 23, 2022, 07:32:16 am

200 million in crypto, at an apple store? what the actual fuck that's not just a bad plan that is barely a plan at all

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 07:48:34 am

The police just said that the guy was indeed strapped full of explosives, but they weren't primed.

They also admitted that hitting him with a car was a deliberate and intentional action by the special interventions service.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 09:27:13 am

The Dutch city of Utrecht will from today onwards pay the costs for anyone with a family history in slavery to have their last name changed on request.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 23, 2022, 04:15:23 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 09:27:13 am

The Dutch city of Utrecht will from today onwards pay the costs for anyone with a family history in slavery to have their last name changed on request.

I imagine all the decedent's of those sleazy slave owners will be happy to change their names.

Where do I sent the bill? I know a lot of Americans that would be happy to take Utrecht up on their offer.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on February 23, 2022, 06:23:55 pm

Did Denmark have a slavery problem as well at some point in history?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 23, 2022, 07:01:00 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on February 23, 2022, 06:23:55 pm

Did Denmark have a slavery problem as well at some point in history?

Most of Europe did, the Danes included. Theirs ended in the 1800s I think, though they banned shipping slaves across the Atlantic earlier than that. I think most of their slaves were in their colonies, which is actually how most of the colonial powers used their slaves. Surprisingly few arrived in Europe to stay, though given the number of poor people in most European societies at the time cheap labour wasn't an issue at home so I suppose it's not all that surprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 23, 2022, 07:07:16 pm

Protip: The Dutch don't live in Denmark.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 23, 2022, 07:17:09 pm

I just assumed he was asking about the Danes as an incidental aside to the Dutch issue.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 07:36:00 pm

Hostage taker, Abdel Rahman A., an Amsterdam citizen that already had a criminal record for arms posession, died in hospital. I guess we'll never know his motives.
During the whole situation. police sneakily rescued 70 hostages from the building, leaving only the 4 hiding in the closet and the direct hostage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 23, 2022, 07:46:38 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 07:36:00 pm

Hostage taker died in hospital. I guess we'll never know his motives.

By the sounds of things he wasn't exactly good at it and his demands were rather stupid, so I'd assume he was some degree of mentally unhinged. I imagine the police will find out some stuff when they track down his personal effects, he's likely to have left a trail of internet and phone activity that can be used to gain some insight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 23, 2022, 07:56:27 pm

Our news showing the end of the hostage situation.

https://www.npostart.nl/nos-journaal/23-02-2022/POW_05159479

The police is opening a (standard) investigation into the use of lethal car force.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 26, 2022, 01:01:34 pm

In other news, a Finnish citizen's initiative for a NATO referendum has passed the signature requirement.

The Finnish Parliament has six months to process the initiative.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2022, 11:52:37 am

Quote from: da_nang on February 26, 2022, 01:01:34 pm

In other news, a Finnish citizen's initiative for a NATO referendum has passed the signature requirement.

The Finnish Parliament has six months to process the initiative.

They don't really have anything to lose by joining NATO at this point

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 27, 2022, 06:35:15 pm

I mean. I'm still kinda against joining the Nato myself, even though I'm probably the least against joining nato I've ever been right now.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: delphonso on February 27, 2022, 07:03:00 pm

Can you share why? As an American I'm pretty oblivious to the topic.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2022, 07:12:14 pm

Quote from: delphonso on February 27, 2022, 07:03:00 pm

Can you share why? As an American I'm pretty oblivious to the topic.

Probably two reasons
1. Countries like Sweden and Finland have been traditionally very neutral to try avoid getting into conflicts with neighbours. It hasn't always worked out, but traditions are traditions, and there is an argument to be made in avoiding getting tangled alliances
2. Joining NATO could in future result in pressure from NATO allies to take joint action against Russia, or get involved in another Iraq or Syrian war in the event that Iran, Turkey, USA, UK or France does something stupid again. Which is pretty likely all things considered

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 27, 2022, 07:47:34 pm

The Netherlands was neutral in WW1. We were neutral in WW2 as well, until Hitler invaded us, occupied us and killed just about all our jews, gays and gypsies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2022, 06:13:40 am

Yeah neutrality tends to only work when you're armed to the teeth and the cost/benefit ratio of messing with you is decidedly costly

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 28, 2022, 07:42:06 am

Opposition leader Jesse Klaver (GroenLinks) has asked for an investigation into the connections with, and possible financing of political parties and politicians by Russia in the Netherlands.

He has also requested that parliament members of our two populist parties, PVV and FvD, are restricted from accessing confidential information about the war in Ukraine, when the government briefs parliament.

Both PVV and FvD voted against the sanctions, and especially the FvD has always been outspokenly pro-Putin.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 28, 2022, 08:45:58 am

Oops wrong thread, moved

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on February 28, 2022, 09:13:46 am

Quote from: delphonso on February 27, 2022, 07:03:00 pm

Can you share why? As an American I'm pretty oblivious to the topic.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on February 27, 2022, 07:12:14 pm

Quote from: delphonso on February 27, 2022, 07:03:00 pm

Can you share why? As an American I'm pretty oblivious to the topic.

Probably two reasons
1. Countries like Sweden and Finland have been traditionally very neutral to try avoid getting into conflicts with neighbours. It hasn't always worked out, but traditions are traditions, and there is an argument to be made in avoiding getting tangled alliances
2. Joining NATO could in future result in pressure from NATO allies to take joint action against Russia, or get involved in another Iraq or Syrian war in the event that Iran, Turkey, USA, UK or France does something stupid again. Which is pretty likely all things considered

Kinda sorta. I apologise if my language is particularly bad down below, I have been having trouble formulating myself all day for some reason

1, Our neutrality is important to me, both for practical and ideological reasons.
   -1a, Our neutrality has afforded us over 200 years of peace, which is of course the longest continual period of peace we've ever had. It's open to debate how much peace we are in these days as we do get involved in wars, conflicts, and peace-keeping abroad (I debate that it myself) but official peace is still better than nopeace.
   -1b, It's basically part of my national identity to be honest

2, Sweden has a lot of diplomatic swingspace for such a relatively small and quite frankly insignificant country. I don't know how much it actually is because of it but at least here the narrative is that it's because our neutrality enables us to be seen as a mediator on the international scene. I think this is beneficial both for Sweden and our relations with the world but also for the world itself. Yes, I realise how arrogant that sounds as a type it out but I'm being honest here

3. A common argument that I used to agree whole-heartedly with is economic, that instead of spending millions on military we could spend it on social and development stuff. These days I feel we have to spend more budget on our defence in case, so I am a bit clove-hearted in this argument, but I still agree with it to some extent, and would prefer we have control over how much we spend and on what rather than it being bound by treaty.

4, Being forced into being complicit with American/British/French bad stuff is a big one. I'd rather we keep to ourself over in our little corner of the world rather than ally with countries invading others over banana supply or ravaging Africa's coastline and depleting it of fish.

As a general rule I don't see nato as a force of good in the world, I simply prefer it to the alternative if I were forced to make a choice. Plague or Cholera, basically.

Also, Denmark is in it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 28, 2022, 09:16:28 am

Quote from: scriver on February 28, 2022, 09:13:46 am

Also, Denmark is in it

Thank you for restoring the terrible Europe related humor.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 28, 2022, 09:45:00 am

The secret real reason is that NATO won't allow Sweden to join until they give up their bioweapons.
Geneva Convention does not allow the use of surströmming.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 28, 2022, 10:03:37 am

Personally I think Sweden should join NATO just because the likelihood of Russia invading Gotland or Denmark seizing control of NATO is never 0%

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 25, 2022, 04:51:28 am

The EU member states and the European parliament have come to an agreement on the new Digital Markets Act, which is intended to prevent big tech companies from abusing their power.

'The EU has been giving big tech companies fines of unprecedented height for harmful practices the past years. The new DMA legally forbids those practices, and creates a fairer, more competitive economic space for new companies', says the French minister of Digital Affairs.

The new rules forbid tech companies from ranking themselves higher in internet search algorithms, and forbids them from re-using gathered data.
Online advertising is also bound by more strict rules and regulations.
Also, messenger services are now obliged to make users be able to communicate with other messengers. This should prevent just a few companies dominating the market.

Breaking the new laws brings huge fines. 10% of yearly income for first offense, 20% of yearly income for repeat offense.
Companies can even be broken up if they keep breaking the law. For example, Meta could be forced to sell WhatsApp or Instagram, if they break the rules more than 3 times in 8 years.

The DMA will apply to companies that make 7.5 billion euros or more profit per year, a market value of 75 billion or more, operate in at least 3 EU countries, and have 45 million or more users.

It will come into effect in 2023. Some of the big tech companies have already asked for more time to prepare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 04, 2022, 07:35:08 am

Since a few weeks, the CEO of the Belgian branch of the dutch PostNL mail service has been in prison, and today his remand has been extended.
He is suspected of running a criminal organisation, human trafficking, forgery, and prohibited posting.

This is because PostNL, like every other big mail and delivery company nowadays, uses subcontractors of subcontractors of subcontractors to hire  their local mail delivery employees.
It has come to light that at the bottom of the chain, there's many illicit little employment firms that get their employees from a pool of illegal immigrants, and severely underpay them, or worse.

Belgian authorities have decided not to go for the small fish, but sue the main company's CEO personally for creating the circumstances that make these practices possible.
Many PostNL depots have been raided by police and financial authorities, some depots have been shut down.

If the case succeeds, many more CEO's should start rethinking their business model or face prison (and brand their company a criminal organisation) 
UPS, Amazon, Uber, Deliveroo, etc. better start worrying.

I applaud Belgium's actions in this. I hope more countries will follow example.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/topman-postnl-belgie-blijft-voorlopig-vastzitten-op-verdenking-van-runnen-criminele-organisatie~b2d79c18/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on April 04, 2022, 04:39:33 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2022, 07:35:08 am

Belgian authorities have decided not to go for the small fish, but sue the main company's CEO personally for creating the circumstances that make these practices possible.
Many PostNL depots have been raided by police and financial authorities, some depots have been shut down.

Hell yes, go Belgium.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 05, 2022, 08:47:56 am

After Western countries announced 2 days ago that they would start providing heavier weaponry, the Czech Republic kicked off by delivering multiple T-72 tanks and BVP-1 armoured infantry vehicles to Ukraine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Some Grue on April 05, 2022, 09:18:57 am

Quote from: martinuzz on April 04, 2022, 07:35:08 am

This is because PostNL, like every other big mail and delivery company nowadays, uses subcontractors of subcontractors of subcontractors to hire  their local mail delivery employees.

Oh, this is similar to how we build routes here in Poland. Or at least, we built it around Euro 2012. The main contractor was paid, he cut his margin and pays his subcontractors. But somewhere in the chain the companies disappears and the subcontractors of subcontractors left with nothing but bankruptcy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 08, 2022, 08:05:57 am

In France, Macron is only marginally ahead in the election polls. Extreme right Le Pen is right behind him.
26.5% for Macron, 24% for Le Pen.


Please France, do not vote Le Pen. One nuclear nazi state is quite enough, we don't need another one.

Seriously. Putin friend (and Hitler worshipper) Le Pen becoming president of France is the most disastrous thing that could happen to Europe, and NATO.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 08, 2022, 08:29:25 am

I thought it was a poor standard of education that enabled far right sentiments to flourish, but doesn't France have good education?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on April 08, 2022, 08:35:12 am

Before Marine it was her dad, FN has been a thing since at least the 80's France is more unembarrassed when it comes to military and far right stuff (like britain  :P) it took the germans until +-2010 to dare make a similar party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on April 08, 2022, 08:35:54 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on April 08, 2022, 08:29:25 am

I thought it was a poor standard of education that enabled far right sentiments to flourish

Isn't that more like a popular myth? Radical right populist parties have quite a significant support among well-to-do middle-class voters (I think this was the case with NSDAP, too), iirc.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on April 08, 2022, 09:36:33 am

They'll argue economic anxiety all the way to the lynching that is fore sure, rearing their ugly souls.

Though stoppit with the education equals wisdom stuff, pretty sure nobody managed to make a stank against german missiles, and these observations can definitly be shortened to that anecdote.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on April 08, 2022, 01:33:22 pm

Quote from: vcd14 on April 08, 2022, 01:17:22 pm

(https://i.imgur.com/zP63NZm.png)
Holy shit

Friendship with Putin is magic!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on April 08, 2022, 01:43:00 pm

What are we looking at?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on April 08, 2022, 02:00:03 pm

my little pony

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on April 08, 2022, 02:14:17 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on April 08, 2022, 01:43:00 pm

What are we looking at?

Quote from: transcription

Marion Anne Perrine ”Marine” Le Pen (French: [maʁin lə pɛn]; born 5 August 1968), sometimes referred to by her initials MLP

(In case the image got cropped off, it did at first for me. MLP like ”My Little Pony”)

---

It is scary, with the small relief that the support for the other far-right/fash Eric Zemmour has dropped with Le Pen’s rise. Assuming the Zemmour-voters were to go to Le Pen in the second round half of that ”shock” has already happened. But really that is terrifying in the first place, that there would be two presidential candidates of the kind instead of just the one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2022, 12:17:00 pm

A new dutch law makes it possible to fine electric car owners if they leave their car plugged in to a loading dock after it is fully charged.
Time is of no matter.
5 minutes late or 1 day late will both get you fined 95 euros.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 11, 2022, 03:23:27 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on April 11, 2022, 12:17:00 pm

A new dutch law makes it possible to fine electric car owners if they leave their car plugged in to a loading dock after it is fully charged.
Time is of no matter.
5 minutes late or 1 day late will both get you fined 95 euros.

Can you extend that the other way? Leave my car battery stack plugged for several years = 95 euro fine?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 11, 2022, 03:48:18 pm

Hmmmm. That does sound profitable  :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 11, 2022, 07:47:19 pm

What's the grace period on that? Like, does it need to be instantly unplugged, or is there like a minute window where it's ok who cares?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 12, 2022, 02:57:10 am

Not sure.
If it's going to be like parking fines, there's no grace period except for the randomness of parking patrol spotting it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on April 24, 2022, 05:30:12 pm

MLP : defeat is magical.
I contain my joy only because it is is the rules of this forum, I'll sleep like a baby tonight.

For those who are maybe not aware of french politics (and this would include most french people) Putin is not the worst friend that Fat Rainbow Dash's party have made over the years.
Her political party itself is the pokemon evolution of the putchist officers during the algerian independance war under De Gaulle, who, after trying to overthrow the Republic, evolved into an underground terrorist organization (the OAS) before evolving again at level 54 into a political party (the FN).

Their speciality : failing at every stage.
They killed a lot of people, but never achieved any of their goals. Putsch failed, OAS officers went to jail or were gunned down by the police (they did revendicate a number of political assassinations though), the FN never achieved anything over local elections and political agitation. Tonight they took another step on the road paved in failures, which I hope will lead them over a ravine or similar.

Ah man, I am happy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 24, 2022, 05:50:14 pm

I was under the impression that French political activism was very active, and that mobs of people could be seen striking and protesting on any given day of the week. So I'm somewhat surprised that French Democracy apparently doesn't try to weed out extremists through a more robust voting system.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on April 24, 2022, 05:58:53 pm

We actually did... Until five years ago.

Long story short, the FN (now RN) always have been the pariah of french politics. When Le Pen father (notable contributor to the OAS and officer suspected to have participated to the coup attempt) managed to arrive in the second turn against Chirac, we witnessed a near stalinian level of elections. Chirac won 80/20 something like that. Pretty much everyone allied against them. And that which we called the "Front Republicain" (the idea that, should they pass, the whole political spectrum would beat them with shoes again) pretty much held until the collapse of the socialist party at the end of Hollande's presidency.

Basically, the two governance parties (right then left) failed quite spectacularly one after the other. The UMP (moderate right) failed and tried to rebrand, then disapeared from the public consciousness. Then the socialist came in power and failed so hard they actually had to sell their offices.

It's a very special moment in the french politcal history, because our anti-fascist dam just vanished and people are still looking for something to replace it.
It'll take time before we have stability again, and that is the opportunity that allows the far right to score (relatively) high.

Edit : And when I mean "high"...it's high for a far right party. 60-40 would be a decisive and humiliating defeat for a governance party in normal times, but we're not in normal times, clearly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on April 24, 2022, 06:20:08 pm

Quote from: Cathar on April 24, 2022, 05:58:53 pm

We actually did... Until five years ago.

When Le Pen father (notable contributor to the OAS and officer suspected to have participated to the coup attempt) managed to arrive in the second turn against Chirac, we witnessed a near stalinian level of elections.

Don't forget to mention that papa Le Pen is also a fervent holocaust denier. MLP kicked him out of the party for that eventually, but only because she is a pragmatist and realized it cost her votes.
MLP is just as much a psycho nazi as is her dad.
You can dress a monkey in a suit, but it is still a monkey.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cathar on April 24, 2022, 06:52:02 pm

Le Pen father was something else. I don't remember the pretext that was used to close his mouth, I think he said something racist to a far right newspaper. It didn't really matter what, dude had the profile of a minority party while his daughter had parlementarian ambitions.

Outside of him funding the OAS (again, a terrorist organization which assassinated elected official as primo modus operandi) he also had ties with the fascist skinhead movement. Oh also he conducted "interrogations" during the Algerian independance war, so theres that. But I think belonging to an organization whose stated goal included killing De Gaulle pretty much disqualified him forever.

Before he left the presidency of his party, he took care to cast out every single one of his direct subalterns so his daughter would inherit the party. When I was a teenager, I saw a constellation of far right new political parties created once or twice a year by a dude he would eliminate. Having him being cast out from the party by his daughter is very amusing.
Those guys are snakes through and through.

I think Gollnish (who still denies the holocaust) is still in the party - as a house clown I suppose. Nobody take holocaust deniers seriously here... But then again most Le Pen voters I talked to were also antimaskers and antivaxers so I guess there might be a public for that kind of rhetoric after all.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 08, 2022, 08:32:12 pm

Sinn Féin (the Nothern Irish catholic political party) has won the elections in Northern Ireland. This means they have the right to appoint the first minister.
The British minister of Nothern Irish affairs has called upon the DUP (the protestant party) not to thwart forming a coalition with Sinn Féin.

This election result could very well mean that Northern Ireland will leave the UK and unite with the rest of Ireland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ziusudra on May 08, 2022, 08:41:01 pm

... or reignite the troubles and make NI a war zone again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 08, 2022, 09:28:36 pm

Or do nothing. Sinn Fein have just won the ability to nominate the first minister. If they came second, they’d be nominating the deputy.

Stormont has essentially a power-sharing thing, in which the largest party gets to nominate the first minister, and then the largest party from a different block (nationalist or unionist, not the same as the largest party) gets to nominate the deputy FM.

The DUP pulled out of their position as FM as a protest against the NI Protocol. They might very well nominate a deputy, but look for the flimsiest excuse to pull out again. That would probably cause issues, but their leader has said he will respect the results of the election.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 09, 2022, 08:49:30 am

Nevermind (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61373504), DUP say they won't do anything until someone manages to square the circle on how you can have a border without having a border.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 09, 2022, 09:24:28 am

Quote from: hector13 on May 08, 2022, 09:28:36 pm

Or do nothing. Sinn Fein have just won the ability to nominate the first minister. If they came second, they’d be nominating the deputy.

Stormont has essentially a power-sharing thing, in which the largest party gets to nominate the first minister, and then the largest party from a different block (nationalist or unionist, not the same as the largest party) gets to nominate the deputy FM.

Yea, this. The level of 'power' held by Republicans hasn't really increased much, except perhaps symbolically. DUP went down, other Unionist parties went up. It's a mild shift of power and not likely to spark PokeIreland Gotta Catch 'em All: County Edition.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 11, 2022, 12:48:54 am

The EU wants services like WhatsApp and Gmail to give full access to the content of converations to law enforcement, so they can more effectively hunt child porn.
Privacy guard dogs fear the consequences.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 11, 2022, 01:12:01 am

Think of the children is always an excuse for this kind of thing.

Maybe teach kids taking naked photos and sending them to someone is a bad idea, and keep better track of at risk kids and paedophiles. That takes effort though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 11, 2022, 04:18:10 am

Do you want more eurosceptics, EU?

Because this is how you create more eurosceptics.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on May 11, 2022, 09:10:06 am

Last I checked, EU privacy regulations have been one of the things making it more difficult for a lot of EU member states to legislate that already. So there's been a lot of pushes for that at every level, both national and now international, and they get beaten back each time. So need to beat it back again, but it's nothing new or surprising that a faction in the EU want to push for that.

(Seriously we need to get out of the habit of describing things like the EU or UN or NATO or whatever in 'X wants' terms when legislation is proposed, these are coalitions of multiple actors and not a single brain after all and proposal of laws is not unanimous agreement of law. And unlike a government, proposals in these usually aren't done by whichever faction has majority control so you're gonna get ones that come out and get defeated more often).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Iduno on May 11, 2022, 02:56:34 pm

Quote from: hector13 on May 11, 2022, 01:12:01 am

Think of the children is always an excuse for this kind of thing.

Maybe teach kids taking naked photos and sending them to someone is a bad idea, and keep better track of at risk kids and paedophiles. That takes effort though.

No, because that makes children feel like they should have rights. Much more important to give police unlimited power which they will definitely use to stop pedophiles who aren't in government or TV, and not use maliciously unless they feel like it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on May 11, 2022, 05:42:18 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on May 11, 2022, 09:10:06 am

Last I checked, EU privacy regulations have been one of the things making it more difficult for a lot of EU member states to legislate that already. So there's been a lot of pushes for that at every level, both national and now international, and they get beaten back each time. So need to beat it back again, but it's nothing new or surprising that a faction in the EU want to push for that.

(Seriously we need to get out of the habit of describing things like the EU or UN or NATO or whatever in 'X wants' terms when legislation is proposed, these are coalitions of multiple actors and not a single brain after all and proposal of laws is not unanimous agreement of law. And unlike a government, proposals in these usually aren't done by whichever faction has majority control so you're gonna get ones that come out and get defeated more often).

Better to say that part of the cumulatively inchoate mass suffers from a certain impulse, not the beast itself, amirite?

The idea of a multi-faceted schizophrenic conglomerate fills me with confidence and lulls me to my own private stretch of the Lethe
With only three cameras observing, because I paid for Premium.  :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on May 14, 2022, 06:07:45 pm

Ukraine just won Eurovision Song Contest 2022. Not unexpected per-se, but it is something that happened.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Ziusudra on May 14, 2022, 06:13:03 pm

The UK got 2nd place, and the question is: is that because the voters thought it was Ukraine?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 06:28:50 pm

Quote from: Ziusudra on May 14, 2022, 06:13:03 pm

The UK got 2nd place, and the question is: is that because the voters thought it was Ukraine?

LOL

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 14, 2022, 08:30:23 pm

Quote from: voliol on May 14, 2022, 06:07:45 pm

Ukraine just won Eurovision Song Contest 2022. Not unexpected per-se, but it is something that happened.

Yeah I am very sad about that.
Winning the Eurovision song festival isn't something to be proud of.
Horrible kitsch that whole thing. An affront to real artists.

Then again, from a political point of view, well deserved win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on May 15, 2022, 04:17:21 pm

Eurovision has always been largely political.

But I think Ukraine still put on a good performance on its own merits. I really liked the UK's performance as well.

The jury is partly meant to take out the politics but unfortunately it seems it brought some snobbish nonesense too. So little for Moldova? Really? I agree with someone online who said that the jury is the reason everyone sings basic English ballads instead of something novel in their own language.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2022, 09:51:53 pm

Ah, but then someone could sing a ballad in their native tongue insulting the Judges, and not risk too much of a backlash!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 16, 2022, 04:45:34 am

I think it was nice France sent a song I'm Bretsgnese this year. Too bad it absolutely sucked though xD

I really liked our Swedish offer this year. What y'all think about it?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on May 16, 2022, 02:30:37 pm

Sweden turned in a NATO membership request today

Erdogan says no (https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/turkiets-president-sager-nej-till-en-svensk-natoansokan)

edit: Doesn't seem to have hit most of the reliable news sources in the Anglosphere yet but here is a Reuters article (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-try-overcome-turkish-objections-its-nato-bid-2022-05-16/)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on May 16, 2022, 03:02:52 pm

Erdogan thinks Finland and Sweden are harboring terrorists of the Kurdish variety, so it’s unsurprising.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on May 16, 2022, 03:42:02 pm

Well, Erdogan probably thinks every Kurd is a terrorist.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 19, 2022, 01:34:50 pm

Also Croatia is against Sweden and Finland joining NATO (https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/62936-croatian-president-to-instruct-ambassador-to-be-against-finland-and-sweden-in-nato)

Hilariously they say it's nothing against Sweden or Finland, they just want the NSC to listen to them

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on May 19, 2022, 04:42:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 19, 2022, 01:34:50 pm

Also Croatia is against Sweden and Finland joining NATO (https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/62936-croatian-president-to-instruct-ambassador-to-be-against-finland-and-sweden-in-nato)

Hilariously they say it's nothing against Sweden or Finland, they just want the NSC to listen to them

So, because the despot president of Turkey is being a dick and using this as an opportunity to hope to oppress Kurds more and end some arms export bans, the president of Croatia thinks, "Hey! We can do the same too and get into the spotlight!" or something like that?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 10:02:25 pm

Quote from: brewer bob on May 19, 2022, 04:42:02 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 19, 2022, 01:34:50 pm

Also Croatia is against Sweden and Finland joining NATO (https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/62936-croatian-president-to-instruct-ambassador-to-be-against-finland-and-sweden-in-nato)

Hilariously they say it's nothing against Sweden or Finland, they just want the NSC to listen to them

So, because the despot president of Turkey is being a dick and using this as an opportunity to hope to oppress Kurds more and end some arms export bans, the president of Croatia thinks, "Hey! We can do the same too and get into the spotlight!" or something like that?

HEY!  Where is MY bribe?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 20, 2022, 05:38:31 am

Quote from: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 10:02:25 pm

HEY!  Where is MY bribe?

Reminds me of the hilarious anecode of when Italian MPs went to Saudi Arabia
They had a fancy dinner laid out with each person receiving a gift watch. The closer you got to the head of the table, the fancier your gift watch was, with the best ones being rolexes and the ones at the end being domestic Saudi made watches. Two Italian MPs got into a fight because one of them saw the guy to his right had a better watch and swapped their name cards, an act the other MP noticed. This fight escalated until all the MPs were fighting, a situation only assuaged when the Saudis announced everyone was getting a rolex watch. When the MPs returned home the watches were confiscated by the police. Whilst in police custody, all of the watches were lost.

Quote from: brewer bob on May 19, 2022, 04:42:02 pm

So, because the despot president of Turkey is being a dick and using this as an opportunity to hope to oppress Kurds more and end some arms export bans, the president of Croatia thinks, "Hey! We can do the same too and get into the spotlight!" or something like that?

More or less yeah

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on May 21, 2022, 12:43:09 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on May 20, 2022, 05:38:31 am

Quote from: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 10:02:25 pm

HEY!  Where is MY bribe?

Reminds me of the hilarious anecode of when Italian MPs went to Saudi Arabia
They had a fancy dinner laid out with each person receiving a gift watch. The closer you got to the head of the table, the fancier your gift watch was, with the best ones being rolexes and the ones at the end being domestic Saudi made watches. Two Italian MPs got into a fight because one of them saw the guy to his right had a better watch and swapped their name cards, an act the other MP noticed. This fight escalated until all the MPs were fighting, a situation only assuaged when the Saudis announced everyone was getting a rolex watch. When the MPs returned home the watches were confiscated by the police. Whilst in police custody, all of the watches were lost.

Jesus Christ. You would think Parliament would act like adults at least AT A FOREIGN DIPLOMATIC MEETING. Imagine the shame of having the Saudis play the coddling parents for your government officials. I wonder what the damage was to their negotiating position. Not to mention it signals to the whole world just how eager your officials are for bribes...

EDIT: Though I would like a source first before I'm sure. Nothing I searched for gave me something like this.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2022, 12:48:50 pm

I can't find it neither, buried under all the British MPs (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/15/tory-mp-daniel-kawczynski-fixer-job-with-saudi-contacts-school-fees) getting donations (https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/hampshire-news/aldershot-mps-expense-paid-trips-15311287)
It may ultimately turn out to be apocryphal

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on May 21, 2022, 01:06:59 pm

Yeah, I was thinking it sounded like the sort of thing someone somewhere not too friendly with Italians would come up with. :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 21, 2022, 09:17:35 pm

...or who lives in Italy would come up with.  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on May 22, 2022, 04:58:11 am

That story could easily be told of pretty much any country's MPs, just replace 'Italian' with another nationality to get a good laugh at the expense of politicians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 22, 2022, 04:59:59 am

Quote from: brewer bob on May 22, 2022, 04:58:11 am

That story could easily be told of pretty much any country's MPs, just replace 'Italian' with another nationality to get a good laugh at the expense of politicians.

It could NEVER be told of America's MPs!
...we don't have a parliament.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 23, 2022, 03:06:26 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFPHjAXHo8
Taisho & Hirohito – came here to have a bloody good time, and they’re having a bloody good time
Clemenceau – he didn’t want to be there, but his kids loved the song so he decided to go
Petain – was contractually obliged to show up, hated every second of it
Benito – just really wanted to show everyone his brand new smile
Willhelm – he practised really really hard all night and doesn’t want to screw it up :[
Hitler – playing it cool like an experimental British prog rock frontman
Wilson – not his first rodeo
Roosevelt – he’s still new to performing, but he’s got heart
Orlando – professional, proficient, practised and unstimulated
Lenin – seize the eurobeats
Stalin – UNCONQUERABLE VIBE
George and Churchill – performance so good that they’ve started to get cheeky with the audience

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 01, 2022, 12:28:03 am

In Spain, a new law has been approved that gives consumers the right to speak to a real person, within 3 minutes, if they call customer service. The customer service telephone number will also need to be free of costs for the caller.

For utility companies, the new law also says the customer service will need to be available 24/7, all year round. They are also obliged to respond to filed customer complaints within 2 hours.
Non-utility companies need to have customer service available within office hours. They have 15 days to respond to filed complaints.

Automated responses and chatbots are forbidden. Customers now have an explicit right to speak with /have their complaint handled by a real person.

Non-utility companies with less than 250 employees, or less than 50 million euros yearly revenue are exempt from the new law.
Utility companies are obliged to comply regardless of size and revenue.

Companies that do not comply will be fined with 10000 euros. Repeat offenders will be fined 100000 euros.

According to Spain's Minister of Consumer Rights, Alberto Garzón, the new law is nescessary, because "many companies create bureaucratic labyrinths to deny you your right to service".


I guess there's going to be a lot of new jobs in the telephone support market in Spain.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on June 01, 2022, 12:34:21 am

And probably not much increase in ability to actually get help, since I don't see how the law can require that the person you speak to actually knows anything or is able to solve the problem.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 01, 2022, 03:40:49 am

I am cautiously positive and I must admit I did not expect this from Spain.

Thanks for posting about it, martinuz

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 01, 2022, 09:35:35 am

The complains in Spain fall heavily on the brain

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 01, 2022, 05:33:00 pm

Who you trying to get crazy with ése?
Don't you know I'm loco?

Insane in the Spain!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2022, 05:41:27 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on June 01, 2022, 12:34:21 am

And probably not much increase in ability to actually get help, since I don't see how the law can require that the person you speak to actually knows anything or is able to solve the problem.

This.
It had occurred to me that the cheapest option is to turn the Customer Service number into a party line, aka if two or more people call customer service at the same time, the system has them talk to each other instead of an employee.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on June 01, 2022, 05:56:46 pm

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 01, 2022, 05:41:27 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on June 01, 2022, 12:34:21 am

And probably not much increase in ability to actually get help, since I don't see how the law can require that the person you speak to actually knows anything or is able to solve the problem.

This.
It had occurred to me that the cheapest option is to turn the Customer Service number into a party line, aka if two or more people call customer service at the same time, the system has them talk to each other instead of an employee.

At which point you’ve violated the law at least two times and get 100k fines :p

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2022, 06:44:35 pm

Quote from: hector13 on June 01, 2022, 05:56:46 pm

Quote from: EuchreJack on June 01, 2022, 05:41:27 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on June 01, 2022, 12:34:21 am

And probably not much increase in ability to actually get help, since I don't see how the law can require that the person you speak to actually knows anything or is able to solve the problem.

This.
It had occurred to me that the cheapest option is to turn the Customer Service number into a party line, aka if two or more people call customer service at the same time, the system has them talk to each other instead of an employee.

At which point you’ve violated the law at least two times and get 100k fines :p

Nah, both customers are real people, so as long as they're put in touch with each other, no fine  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 05, 2022, 05:04:23 pm

When automation outstrips jobs, we'll just all work customer service lines instead. It's (evil) genius.

Meanwhile, UK government go brrr burn kaboom aaaaaaah shrjkl (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62048657).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 06, 2022, 07:27:18 am

State-owned automatons doing all the jobs. They don't require wages. Distribute wealth evenly among humans, adding a tax for automaton maintenance.

Boom. Robot communism biatch.

Seize the means of automation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2022, 07:34:43 am

C'mon Boris just resign already

Please God I don't want multigenerational mortgages to enslave more futures before they're even born

Just let the fucking house market crash already

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 06, 2022, 07:41:54 am

I think the major issue is who to replace him with. Were there a viable candidate he'd have gone already.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 06, 2022, 08:41:09 am

I'm pretty sure Larry, the cat who lives in Downing Street, would do a better job.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 06, 2022, 08:43:42 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 06, 2022, 08:41:09 am

I'm pretty sure Larry, the cat who lives in Downing Street, would do a better job.

They're being kept on the side to replace the Queen when she dies or abdicates, clearly.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 06, 2022, 09:15:29 am

Frankly, I approve. Larry would make a much less catty monarch than Charles.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 06, 2022, 09:25:03 am

Even Gove is sharpening the knife (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62048657?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62c596b6b893776ef33433de%26Gove%20tells%20PM%20he%20must%20go%262022-07-06T14%3A14%3A15.778Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:80039cbd-bced-4c8e-955d-e135dc50803e&pinned_post_asset_id=62c596b6b893776ef33433de&pinned_post_type=share), it seems.

*hums* a coat of gold or a coat of red...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2022, 09:50:38 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on July 06, 2022, 09:25:03 am

Even Gove is sharpening the knife (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62048657?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62c596b6b893776ef33433de%26Gove%20tells%20PM%20he%20must%20go%262022-07-06T14%3A14%3A15.778Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:80039cbd-bced-4c8e-955d-e135dc50803e&pinned_post_asset_id=62c596b6b893776ef33433de&pinned_post_type=share), it seems.

*hums* a coat of gold or a coat of red...

I'd probably remove the "even" part. Gove was the first person to backstab Boris and make him lose to Theresa May. But then he said sorry for being a naughty boy and has been sharpening the same knife ever since

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 06, 2022, 07:41:54 am

I think the major issue is who to replace him with. Were there a viable candidate he'd have gone already.

Replace him with a lamppost. The lamppost is upright, principled, and a guiding light for our country

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 06, 2022, 09:55:53 am

True, plus I think he did similar to May when Boris came in.

It's not exactly a secret that all of them are making the same calculation at the moment, "Which course of action increases my chances of having more power in the foreseeable future?".

Sunak and Javid are close friends so quitting at the same time is probably a "if one of us gets in they make the other their second" type arrangement, whilst Nadine Dorries is just smart enough to know there's no chance in hell of her being given a ministerial position by anyone but Boris Johnson. Gove is continuing his habit of stabbing his way as high as he can go, but he's been good about timing his stabbings so him pulling out the knife is a significant indication.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 06, 2022, 04:28:40 pm

Gove got the sack for telling Boris to quit.

Priti Patel also has a fucking nerve, the only reason she’s still in the cabinet was because Boris stood by her when she was bullying her staff.

Might as well enjoy the ride, Boris won’t jump, and he can’t be pushed for another year unless they change the rules.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on July 06, 2022, 04:31:31 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 06, 2022, 04:28:40 pm

Gove got the sack for telling Boris to quit.

Priti Patel also has a fucking nerve, the only reason she’s still in the cabinet was because Boris stood by her when she was bullying her staff.

Might as well enjoy the ride, Boris won’t jump, and he can’t be pushed for another year unless they change the rules.

Thanks for the summary.

And to think, I thought American Politics was bad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 06, 2022, 04:34:25 pm

Oh, this is nowhere near as bad as American politics.

I'm sorry but it's true  :P

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 06, 2022, 04:37:16 pm

Well the committee that can call a confidence vote has said they won’t change the rules but there are elections for that next week apparently so I imagine it’ll come up again.

Genuinely not sure if Boris is selfish enough to just call early elections.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on July 06, 2022, 05:27:58 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 06, 2022, 09:15:29 am

Frankly, I approve. Larry would make a much less catty monarch than Charles.

True cat-based constitutional monarchy has never been tried.
(You have to admit it would be cheaper.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2022, 05:30:10 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on July 06, 2022, 05:27:58 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 06, 2022, 09:15:29 am

Frankly, I approve. Larry would make a much less catty monarch than Charles.

True cat-based constitutional monarchy has never been tried.
(You have to admit it would be cheaper.)

Yet more fat cats in charge  ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on July 06, 2022, 05:33:37 pm

But they're too nonsapient to pass any decrees.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 06, 2022, 05:36:44 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on July 06, 2022, 05:27:58 pm

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on July 06, 2022, 09:15:29 am

Frankly, I approve. Larry would make a much less catty monarch than Charles.

True cat-based constitutional monarchy has never been tried.
(You have to admit it would be cheaper.)

The ancient-Egyptians trialed it. There was a spike in national contentment and fish shortages.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2022, 05:30:10 pm

Yet more fat cats in charge  ::)

Also, this deserves a thumbs up. But this forum is horribly outdated emoji-wise. So imagine it instead.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 06, 2022, 05:51:02 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 06, 2022, 04:37:16 pm

Well the committee that can call a confidence vote has said they won’t change the rules but there are elections for that next week apparently so I imagine it’ll come up again.

Genuinely not sure if Boris is selfish enough to just call early elections.

Wasn't the one that Boris faced earlier an in party leadership-challenge not a no-confidence-vote?

If a proper motion of no-confidence manages to get onto the floor then it would still be applicable, the issue would be getting the motion to the floor in the first place.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 06, 2022, 05:53:37 pm

A parliament as a whole can declare a vote no confidence of in government, which if gets a majority of votes then dissolves parliament and if a new government can't be formed triggers a general election.

A political party can declare a vote of no confidence in their leader, and that causes the leader of that party to stand down and a new leader to be elected.

The Prime Minister is not a directly elected position, but rather simply the leader of the majority political party. People vote for Members of Parliament, not Prime Ministers.

If conservatives went with a parliamentary motion of no confidence, it'd not remove Boris Johnson from the leadership position of the Conservative Party so they'd either have to accept Boris as prime minister still and nothing changes, be in-fighting during a general election, or lose whatever general election happens under the -30% popularity of Boris Johnson. So it's not likely to happen that way.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 07, 2022, 07:28:28 am

Well, he's finally accepted he's been shown the door. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62072419)

Na Na Na Na Hey Hey-ey Goodbye (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyvvEWHodk&ab_channel=AnilVitaliSekharNaik).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 07:48:15 am

Everyone in my workplace started cheering and threatening to pop champagne - all except for one doctor. He said he wouldn't cheer until he had actually resigned, as he believed Boris was pulling yet another ruse to try and cling to power

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 07, 2022, 08:24:46 am

Just back from taking my gran to an audiology appointment (we're testing negative for COVID now) and the nurses and doctors in the audiology department had the news on in a side room (presumably a break room,) heard them making more than a few comments at the expense of BoJo and the Tories in general.

'Nothing better than a Tory power struggle,' is the only one that I caught clearly.

I have noticed Johnson is trying to avoid accepting any responsibility for getting ousted, instead blaming it on the rest of the party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 08:26:16 am

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 07, 2022, 08:24:46 am

'Nothing better than a Tory power struggle,' is the only one that I caught clearly.

Inscribe that on boris's headstone

Quote from: Grim Portent on July 07, 2022, 08:24:46 am

I have noticed Johnson is trying to avoid accepting any responsibility for getting ousted, instead blaming it on the rest of the party.

The man is allergic to decency

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2022, 09:16:01 am

Ah well, did not think BJ would ever think of someone other than himself.

Who’s gonna be next? All the “leaders” in the party have been tainted by association.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 09:20:00 am

Don't worry, they'll choose the much more trustworthy Joris Bohnson

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 07, 2022, 09:39:50 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 09:20:00 am

Don't worry, they'll choose the much more trustworthy Joris Bohnson

The channel mascot* for the Youtuber Mr Samuel Streamer?

Well that's not the worst idea, but I'm not sure the country is ready for a fictional mutant polar bear.


*Technically named Joris Bonson, but close enough for the bit.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2022, 11:29:06 am

He’s said he’s going, but will stay on. This is apparently too much for some.

Ex-PMs, the leadership of their Scottish outpost (I’m surprised Douglas Ross has not fallen over the number of u-turns he’s made on BJ’s leadership) and varied members of his current party and the opposition.

Still some legs to this it seems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on July 07, 2022, 02:21:34 pm

Quote from: hector13 on July 07, 2022, 11:29:06 am

He’s said he’s going, but will stay on. This is apparently too much for some.

Ex-PMs, the leadership of their Scottish outpost (I’m surprised Douglas Ross has not fallen over the number of u-turns he’s made on BJ’s leadership) and varied members of his current party and the opposition.

Still some legs to this it seems.

Scottish Conservatives have a history of flip flopping on the actions of the main branch of the party. Ruth Davidson drew an awful lot of 'hard lines' during her tenure as ScotCon leader and never followed through with them. I think she swore to resign if the UK Conservatives went ahead with various things at least three times.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 07, 2022, 03:47:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 09:20:00 am

Don't worry, they'll choose the much more trustworthy Joris Bohnson

Wil he be the one to lead the UK to the ExBrit?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on July 07, 2022, 06:35:53 pm

And to really punctuate his lack of any shame, after being found guilty of partying during a national lockdown, after being kicked out of his position whilst trying to pass the blame for hiring a known sexual predator onto 'drinking culture', after all of the lies and abuses of position....

He's still throwing a wedding party at Chequers before he goes. (https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/07/boris-johnson-and-carrie-to-host-lavish-party-at-chequers-16961433/)

---

In a tangentially related corker, when talking to my pro-Conservative pro-Brexit grandfather, he seriously suggested that the Conservatives best option at this point would be to let Theresa May be prime minister again...I was gobsmacked. If other conservative voters are thinking like that, it really goes to show what their options are at this point...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on July 07, 2022, 07:10:14 pm

I think it just goes to show how much they need to scrape the barrel to find someone who hasn’t been tainted by Boris’ reign.

This really should have just ended the Conservative Party because for all of the horrible shit that Boris and his cronies are responsible for, how bad he and they looked by breaking the laws that he made and encouraged Britain to follow, what brought him down was an internal party appointment.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 08, 2022, 04:11:18 am

Quote from: martinuzz on July 07, 2022, 03:47:31 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 09:20:00 am

Don't worry, they'll choose the much more trustworthy Joris Bohnson

Wil he be the one to lead the UK to the ExBrit?

Britain Exit Britain

Quote from: hector13 on July 07, 2022, 07:10:14 pm

I think it just goes to show how much they need to scrape the barrel to find someone who hasn’t been tainted by Boris’ reign.

This really should have just ended the Conservative Party because for all of the horrible shit that Boris and his cronies are responsible for, how bad he and they looked by breaking the laws that he made and encouraged Britain to follow, what brought him down was an internal party appointment.

I just hope the new crop of Ms aren't rapists. It's a low bar to set but MPs have been failing it for the last 1,000 years of darkness for some reason

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 08, 2022, 04:27:55 am

I can tell you that British doctors are pretty pissed in general. They have endured a paycut for years, and inflation has tanked their wages even more. I know a couple of people who are fuming.


As a reference: I work in the HSE (which is pretty busted, and I am in a particularily busted hospital). For the last year I was supposed to be level 6 on the payscale, and they kept me as level 3 (I'm trying to fix that and get the backpay atm).
I was pretty furious about that so I actually checked some offers from the UK (I maintain both Spanish, British, and Irish registration as a safety net and for convenience). As it turns out I'm making around 50% more on level 3 of the payscale that I'd at the UK on level 6 of the payscale. And.. I cannot talk about the big English cities in northern England. But my cost of living is certainly far, far lower than in London.

Tldr: no wonder Brit doctors are pissed.

Pd:

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 07, 2022, 07:48:15 am

Everyone in my workplace started cheering and threatening to pop champagne - all except for one doctor. He said he wouldn't cheer until he had actually resigned, as he believed Boris was pulling yet another ruse to try and cling to power

Didntn Cummins say EXACTLY that as well?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2022, 06:03:14 am

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. We are such a clown country where there is so much prosperity but I don't know where it all goes

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on July 09, 2022, 09:36:27 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on July 09, 2022, 06:03:14 am

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. We are such a clown country where there is so much prosperity but I don't know where it all goes

Pretty sure the answer is "People that donated to the Tory party" at present.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 11, 2022, 10:19:49 am

Lots of people are angry at billionaires, but I have noticed as well the growing trend of people being bored with them. Like the notion of sheer disappointment that with all the resources of the world at their fingertips, their imagination is so small, that the only thing they can imagine using their resources for - is the acquisition of slightly more resources

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on July 11, 2022, 10:26:00 am

In fairness, Musk displays plenty of imagination.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Egan_BW on July 12, 2022, 01:43:14 am

I'd be impressed at an ex-billionaire.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 12, 2022, 03:30:12 pm

Quote from: Egan_BW on July 12, 2022, 01:43:14 am

I'd be impressed at an ex-billionaire.

Well there was this chap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hwang) who managed to become a multi-billionaire and one of the world's richest men and then lose it all shortly after without anyone ever really noticing

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on September 11, 2022, 02:41:31 pm

Election night right now in Sweden, the covert neonazi party (the Sweden Democrats) is looking like it'll end up the second biggest, at >20% of the votes.
"Covert neonazi" meaning the party platform is officially only right-wing populist, racist, and fond of conspiracy theories, but the party leadership joined the party when they still were openly neo-, and they have to rinse out people who go too openly nazi way too often for it to be a coincidence.
Yes, this was not too unexpected, and yes, this might also mean chaos in the newly formed right-conservative block since they've surpassed the traditional right party (the Moderates) who are the other cornerstone in that block. But I still can't help but hate it. Fuck.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 11, 2022, 03:25:57 pm

Noooo, not Sweden too!
It is terrifying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 11, 2022, 04:30:13 pm

Considering the "ex"-neonazi party is still to the left of every other rightwing party, I don't mind the switch too much.

The Socialdemocrats is up again this year nationally speaking, which is nice, but for them to still be able to make a government they still need the ultra-neoliberal Centreparty (used to be a social liberal centre countryside party that is a historical partner of the Socialdemocrats, but which is now the furthest right party of the rightwing) alongside both the Leftparty and the Environmentparty. That's what the situation has been over the last four years and in practice that has meant 110% neoliberalism and licking the Centreparty's arse.

The Leftparty is down despite having had a huge Nooshi-boom from their new party leader this summer, which is sad news. My vote isn't counted yet as I pre-voted, but even though it is the most important vote* I don't think it can save them.

As of now it looks like it will be a one mandate majority in the Riksdag to the right-wing even without the Centreparty, which is even sadder news.

On a positive note though the newly started islamist populist party "Nuance", though they did very well in the areas where they focused themselves, have completely failed to even make a dent on either the Riksdag or Commune elections. They made a lot of noise earlier this year by spreading rumours about the Swedis authorities kidnapping muslim children and forcibly converting them, so it's very nice to see them so thoroughly rejected.

*Fun fact, I had to go vote three times this year because I forgot my votecard twice. First time I just forgot it on the table, second time I made sure to take it with me to the door but when I got there it was raining outside so I put it down on the chair for two seconds to put on a raincoat and when I was done my mind had completely forgotten the entire concept of votecards and that I need to bring something with me in and I didn't remember until I had parked my car. So I think my vote should actually count as three votes, really, it would just be fair.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on September 11, 2022, 08:24:19 pm

Quote from: voliol on September 11, 2022, 02:41:31 pm

Election night right now in Sweden, the covert neonazi party (the Sweden Democrats) is looking like it'll end up the second biggest, at >20% of the votes.
"Covert neonazi" meaning the party platform is officially only right-wing populist, racist, and fond of conspiracy theories, but the party leadership joined the party when they still were openly neo-, and they have to rinse out people who go too openly nazi way too often for it to be a coincidence.

The Finnish populists (The Finns Party) are already rejoicing with this news, but hey, some of their party members have (or had) connections to NMR/SMR and other neo-nazis, so no surprise there.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 19, 2022, 10:40:38 am

The Finnish Parliament today passed a "temporary" law that, in practice, enslaves nurses in order to ensure patient safety. (https://yle.fi/news/3-12630457) The Nay votes came from True Finns (No Yays, one blank), Christian Democrats (No Yays), and the Left Alliance (slightly more Yays than Nays). All others were unanimously in favor, not counting MPs not present.

Instead of being paid a fair wage and offered fair working conditions, nurses are no longer allowed to strike. How convenient that the nurses were planning to do just that; I wonder if Big Medicine is paying off politicians.

Even if the nurses quit, the hospitals et al. will be able to force them under penalty of law to go back to work as a nurse. Police will literally hunt them down and drag them back.

Only loophole out for now, AFAIK, is to relinquish your license and ability to work in the field you spent years training for.

Gee, I wonder why there is a nursing shortage.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 19, 2022, 11:03:22 am

Well, in theory they could drag them back. If they all fucked off, I suspect there'd be too much to actually be able to do anything about it.

Now I understand not wanting patients to be affected, but basically chaining them to their workstations is a really fucking shit thing to do. Maybe, just fucking maybe, the alternative would be to listen to them?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on September 19, 2022, 11:29:55 am

This is such a stupid thing to do. If nurses are so important that you have to force them to work, maybe pay them what they’re worth so they don’t feel the need to strike, and you can fill a shortage (eventually) with new recruits in a now reasonable paying industry?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 19, 2022, 12:18:42 pm

Doesn't Finland have universal healthcare? Refusing to pay your staff properly sounds like something from an American-style private hospital you'd find here in the states; not out of a country with socialized medicine.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 19, 2022, 12:47:00 pm

Look at the UK, we chronically underpay our medical staff (And it's seriously beginning to bite us in the arse) because a lot of medical staff are doing their overtime and underpaid work because they want to help. A bit like teachers, really. If you can exploit someone's secondary motivations to underpay them, they'll be underpaid.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 19, 2022, 01:02:25 pm

Sweden did this some... ten-twenty years back following a period of protest I believe.

Fucking neo-liberal wolves, man. They have forgotten the face of their fathers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on September 19, 2022, 07:51:22 pm

Well I guess now that striking is off limits, them nurses only way of protest is getting their license revoked because of patient neglect.
It is terrifying.


... Then again... How are you going to enforce not striking? The whole idea of strikes is that you say fuck the law, we strike, whatcha gonna do? Fire us all? GLHF and fuck your mother.
I hope all nurses and doctors will start a massive strike (hopefully keeping a barebone staff to keep patients alive).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: anewaname on September 19, 2022, 09:46:02 pm

Quote from: Great Order on September 19, 2022, 12:47:00 pm

Look at the UK, we chronically underpay our medical staff (And it's seriously beginning to bite us in the arse) because a lot of medical staff are doing their overtime and underpaid work because they want to help. A bit like teachers, really. If you can exploit someone's secondary motivations to underpay them, they'll be underpaid.

Between the teachers and the medical staff, there are going to be some smart people. Give them a month to review the transaction history of any of those schools or hospitals and they'll find where the school or hospital is over-paying someone who isn't involved in the work. And the management of those places will never notice this because their management position depends on them keeping these expenses hidden.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 20, 2022, 09:29:57 am

It'll also presumably be brought before the ECHR by the unions, since the ECHR has previously ruled on the right to strike being a fundamental one.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 20, 2022, 12:08:59 pm

Meanwhile, the UK treasury's refused to publish their economic forecast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62970803

As you can see, the economy's expected to do so well that we feel no need to tell everyone how well it'll do. It certainly isn't to cover up any massive crashes, and it most definitely isn't because it'd show that Trussonomics are, in fact, a load of steaming dogshit, because we all know that trickle-down works, especially when led by people with the intelligence of a dry sponge.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on September 25, 2022, 04:18:05 pm

Rightwing/Far-right Fratelli d'Italia appears to be the biggest party in the Italian parliamentary snap election, according to exit polls, at around 25% give or take. The rightwing coalition appears to be the biggest as well, though possibly not the majority of votes.

Five-Star Movement may be kingmaker.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on September 26, 2022, 02:18:24 am

Quote from: Great Order on September 20, 2022, 12:08:59 pm

Meanwhile, the UK treasury's refused to publish their economic forecast.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62970803

As you can see, the economy's expected to do so well that we feel no need to tell everyone how well it'll do. It certainly isn't to cover up any massive crashes, and it most definitely isn't because it'd show that Trussonomics are, in fact, a load of steaming dogshit, because we all know that trickle-down works, especially when led by people with the intelligence of a dry sponge.

Is the UK prices much affected by leaving the EU? Prices are high all over Europe right now, even up here in Sweden where we have an energy surplus (because since we've connected our tris to Germany and the UK's we pay European prices).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 26, 2022, 06:52:00 am

Trussonomics has crashed the pound to its lowest ever value. It dropped to near-parity with the dollar for a moment.

Tory MPs are fuming. Could Truss be the UK's shortest serving PM? Are we going to see a return of BoZo? Or are we going to get someone even worse again?

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-latest-chancellor-hints-at-further-tax-cuts-as-pound-falls-to-historic-low-12615118?postid=4532488#liveblog-body

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on September 26, 2022, 10:46:24 am

Turns out HM Queen Elizabeth II was shoring up our currency  :'(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on September 26, 2022, 11:08:25 am

Quote from: da_nang on September 25, 2022, 04:18:05 pm

Rightwing/Far-right Fratelli d'Italia appears to be the biggest party in the Italian parliamentary snap election, according to exit polls, at around 25% give or take. The rightwing coalition appears to be the biggest as well, though possibly not the majority of votes.

Five-Star Movement may be kingmaker.

Giorgia Meloni has caused some WTFs and laughs today with all the far-right/fascist hobbit camps and such:

Quote from: France24 (https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220925-inspired-by-tolkien-meloni-is-on-a-quest-for-italy-s-ring-of-power)

In the late 1970s, the far right’s Tolkien-mania inspired the creation of “Hobbit Camps”, where fans of the author gathered for book readings, political debates and far-right rock concerts, in what some described as a “fascist Woodstock”.

The camps ended in 1981, when Meloni was just 4 years old. Just over a decade later, however, she attended a revival of the festivals, dubbed “Hobbit 93”, in Rome. There she sang along with the far-right band Compagnia dell’Anello (Fellowship of the Ring), whose song “Tomorrow Belongs to Us” was an anthem of MSI’s youth wing.

...reminded me of this video:

https://youtu.be/DKP16d_WdZM

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2022, 11:32:06 am

Holy shit that's the worst take anyone could ever possibly make regarding LotR. The very last thing that happens in the trilogy is the hobbits fighting off fascism from the Shire. It takes some seriously delusional mental gymnastics to twist LotR into a far-right fantasy.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on September 26, 2022, 11:43:38 am

zt

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 26, 2022, 11:47:39 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2022, 11:32:06 am

Holy shit that's the worst take anyone could ever possibly make regarding LotR. The very last thing that happens in the trilogy is the hobbits fighting off fascism from the Shire. It takes some seriously delusional mental gymnastics to twist LotR into a far-right fantasy.

What are you talking about? The hobbits fight off immigrants to the Shire, who are of a different race and had destroyed their traditional way of life. And who makes everything right again? Veterans of a great war. You know. As in the target demographic of Fasci di Combattimento.
The hobbits were clearly speaking in Italian accent all this time, is what I'm saying.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on September 26, 2022, 12:40:22 pm

Orcs are obviously communist, as evidenced by their complete rejection of enforced social classes and strict hierarchical systems.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on September 26, 2022, 01:17:41 pm

rera

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on September 26, 2022, 01:30:45 pm

Quote from: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2022, 11:32:06 am

It takes some seriously delusional mental gymnastics

That's pretty much the far-right in a nutshell.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 26, 2022, 10:01:35 pm

Continuing on my "Ignore the thread's current conversation and continue posting UK stuff"

Tory MPs are already pulling out knives, supposedly a number of them are filing motions of no-confidence. Also Labour's committed themselves to PR.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 26, 2022, 10:08:23 pm

Clearly Truss killed the Queen and not satisfied, she's now killing the pound that bares her face.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: anewaname on September 27, 2022, 05:06:27 am

About Truss's tax cuts... Bloomberg article (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-09-23/liz-truss-s-45-billion-tax-cut-isn-t-radical-enough?leadSource=uverify%20wall) has this paragraph:

Quote

The tax cuts announced on Friday went beyond mere tinkering at the margins. Kwarteng abolished what’s known as the “higher rate” of income tax – 45% – bringing higher earners to a top marginal rate of 40%. He cut the lowest rate from 20% to 19%. He scrapped the new National Insurance levy of 1.25% introduced in the spring to fund health and social care. He reversed a planned rise in corporate taxes, and he cut stamp duty, the charge paid by homebuyers, to get the property market moving again.

Some of the youtube vids say the tax cuts benefit the rich significantly more than the poor. And others are suggesting that funding for the health care system will be more difficult.

Could this tax cut be seen as a method of "defunding" the government by slashing government income? Is this a move to put more economic control in individuals who are outside the current government administration? Is it a strategic move towards more authoritarian control?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 27, 2022, 08:55:09 am

It's a question a number of people have been asking. Is he attempting to reduce the size of the government, is he looking for kickbacks after he's booted out, or is he an absolute raging dipshit ideologue?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on September 27, 2022, 02:47:19 pm

My assumption would be an attempt to manipulate the currency to facilitate some sort of personal investment.

Which is illegal I think, but the sort of person who would do something like that isn't generally inclined to care.

Quote from: Great Order on September 26, 2022, 10:01:35 pm

Continuing on my "Ignore the thread's current conversation and continue posting UK stuff"

Tory MPs are already pulling out knives, supposedly a number of them are filing motions of no-confidence. Also Labour's committed themselves to PR.

Labour's also stated they won't form a coalition with the SNP under any circumstances, much as it has done for the past few decades. Which fair enough, the SNP will support 90% of Labour policy on general principle anyway, so there's no benefit to Labour talking about the potential for a deal even if they wind up as a minority government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: anewaname on September 27, 2022, 05:06:54 pm

Someone on bay12 asked "what bay12 left-pondians thought about Liz Truss" or something like that, and at that time I read up on a bunch of news/opinion articles about Liz Truss's record, multiple articles labelled her a "political shape-shifter", changing her position to maintain political power. That implies any promotion of her as a politician involves her already having accepted some other's agenda, and it is likely that "other" is interested in disrupting government regulation for their business interests (usually starving the economy until people work for less, and gaining political control giving better jobs to a minority or "loyal" group focused on controlling a larger group).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on September 28, 2022, 12:55:06 pm

Well she ran on a campaign on slashing and burning taxes, and then when she got in she slashed and burned. So, she's doing what she said she would at least.

Am mostly just unsure if the Conservatives surprised by that are surprised she stuck to what she said she would, or are just acting surprised after the terrible ideas she campaigned on became obviously terrible ideas when implemented.

There's definitely a sense that a good chunk of the Conservatives know their way too long run at government is coming to an end so they're just throwing off the mask of pretending to give a shit about anybody but their rich buds and the kickbacks they can receive from them.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 28, 2022, 01:36:05 pm

My only hope is that she actually kills the Tories. It'd be fucking hilarious if they finally achieved their goal of a low-tax state and it acted as a knife to the heart of their party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on September 29, 2022, 03:51:21 pm

Probably an outlier, but... https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1575522731101245440?s=46&t=gO7RZ12vWuvRqtjiLQy6zw

33 point lead for Labour in a poll.

F U C K I N G L O L

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 03, 2022, 04:35:59 am

Quote from: Great Order on September 29, 2022, 03:51:21 pm

Probably an outlier, but... https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1575522731101245440?s=46&t=gO7RZ12vWuvRqtjiLQy6zw

33 point lead for Labour in a poll.

F U C K I N G L O L

And now arrives the inevitable panicked U-turn from Liz and Kwasi who maintain that it was all just a bit of banter all along

The fact that he attended a champagne do with hedge-fund managers placing short positions on the pound hours after delivering his budget hara-kiri is pure coincidence I'm sure (https://news.sky.com/story/kwasi-kwarteng-faces-calls-for-inquiry-after-attending-champagne-do-with-hedge-fund-managers-hours-after-delivering-mini-budget-12710039)

Now I'm not saying Tory ministers would cause economic chaos just to profit off of it personally but all I'm saying is they have a lot of high net worths

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on October 18, 2022, 01:53:50 pm

Sweden's new right-wing government is shutting down the Ministry of the Environment.

yaay :(

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on October 18, 2022, 02:05:08 pm

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2022, 03:57:05 pm

Even funnier, they merged it into the new Ministry of Environment and Business, which is like merging the children's nursery with the famished lion enclosure

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on October 18, 2022, 06:16:44 pm

More like merging it with the Department of Dwarf Fortress Childcare.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 18, 2022, 06:27:59 pm

Quote from: Great Order on October 18, 2022, 06:16:44 pm

More like merging it with the Department of Dwarf Fortress Childcare.

Well now if it's the department of Dwarf Fortress childcare my money's on the children eating the lions

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on October 18, 2022, 06:29:52 pm

9/10 chance the child's eaten, 1/10 chance the child emerges a traumatised combat god.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 19, 2022, 02:59:12 am

So many worst people in charge of the wrongst places.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2022, 06:06:20 am

Quote from: scriver on October 19, 2022, 02:59:12 am

So many worst people in charge of the wrongst places.

Tony Blair as peace ambassador for the middle east always takes the cake for me

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 19, 2022, 06:35:23 am

More like 9999/10000 chance of being eaten

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 19, 2022, 06:06:20 am

Quote from: scriver on October 19, 2022, 02:59:12 am

So many worst people in charge of the wrongst places.

Tony Blair as peace ambassador for the middle east always takes the cake for me

Peaceful porpoises.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2022, 06:37:35 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 19, 2022, 06:35:23 am

More like 9999/10000 chance of being eaten

DF taught me that sweetbread was neither sweet nor bread

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 19, 2022, 06:35:23 am

Peaceful porpoises.

Saudis on the UN panel for women's rights, I imagine next we can make Putin peace ambassador for Eastern Europe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on October 22, 2022, 07:16:51 am

Boris is coming back to try to get re-elected.

I find it supremely funny that the guy who survived 3(?) no confidence votes is trying to get re-elected.  Teflon PM over here

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on October 22, 2022, 11:30:07 am

The Trusspocalypse was good optics for him.

He's had the dubious honour of being sandwiched between two pms much less capable than himself.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 22, 2022, 06:37:35 am

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 19, 2022, 06:35:23 am

More like 9999/10000 chance of being eaten

DF taught me that sweetbread was neither sweet nor bread

Quote from: Th4DwArfY1 on October 19, 2022, 06:35:23 am

Peaceful porpoises.

Saudis on the UN panel for women's rights, I imagine next we can make Putin peace ambassador for Eastern Europe

Gerry Adams as a leading light in the NI peace proce....

Oh wait

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 25, 2022, 03:35:07 pm

Dear friends I come with lulz

The vice president of Norrtälje commune (local level authorities) had to answer questions after the leadership decided a ~30% pay raise was suitable for themselves, bringing their paycheck from 90 000 something Crowns to 120 000 Crowns. SvT, Swedish state television, asked them roughly "your pay raise is the same as a cleaner's entire wage. Were there no other wage envelopes this money would be better spent in?" and the bloke gave the most satisfying 25 seconds long answer ever (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/norrtaljes-politiska-ledning-chockhojer-sin-egen-lon-kommunstyrelsens-vice-ordforande-svarar)

That's on svt's own web page so if it doesn't work outside of Sweden, I also found where somebody had uploaded it on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL3CQQk5mhs) so that everyone will be able to see it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 25, 2022, 03:38:14 pm

What a thoughtful person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 25, 2022, 04:36:11 pm

What did he say at the end? Something about priorities? /wild guess

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 25, 2022, 04:48:48 pm

Yeah, "it's always a question of priorities"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 27, 2022, 05:16:46 am

wE neEd tO maKE oUr POst cOmPEtiTive

so cleaners need competitive pay too?

no

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Kagus on October 27, 2022, 11:54:54 am

You just can't write comedy like that

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on October 27, 2022, 12:15:31 pm

Apparently they reversed it almost immediately, which indicates to me that they genuinely didn't realise people would find it upsetting. It's not like they tried to cover it up or anything.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on October 27, 2022, 01:47:51 pm

It boggles my mind that even just that one guy is so short-sighted to have not considered he might have to justify being given a fuck huge pay rise in general, never mind during a global cost of living/inflation crisis.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2022, 08:30:18 am

Quote from: Great Order on October 27, 2022, 12:15:31 pm

Apparently they reversed it almost immediately, which indicates to me that they genuinely didn't realise people would find it upsetting. It's not like they tried to cover it up or anything.

From my personal experience, wealthy people do not think they are wealthy

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 17, 2023, 03:58:43 am

So about that electricity huh

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 17, 2023, 08:51:06 am

Article 1 of the Dutch Constitution has been changed. After already having passed parliament twice, and senate once, the senate voted again today, and the change to Constitution was ratified with 52 in favour and 15 against. (A change to our Constitution requires that two consecutive parliaments and two consecutive senates vote in favour with at least 2/3ds majority).

It used to be

Quote

Any person staying in the Netherlands will be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination on a basis of religion, philosophy of life, political affiliation, race, gender, or whatever other basis, is not allowed.

It will be

Quote

Any person staying in the Netherlands will be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination on a basis of religion, philosophy of life, political affiliation, race, gender, handicap, sexual orientation, or whatever other basis, is not allowed.

With this, the rights of LGBTQ+ and people with disability are more firmly confirmed.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on January 17, 2023, 10:54:16 am

How does "whatever other basis" work?

If the law grants privileges or imposes burdens on only a select few as determined by law, isn't that discrimination? Wouldn't high-income earners then be taxed the same as low income earners? "Equally in equal circumstances" will only ensure that you won't treated differently from others that are placed in the same box as you (same race, same sex, same income, etc.). The discrimination clause in Article 1 is necessary to prevent the government from creating these boxes, and "whatever other basis" includes any box created by statute. Only boxes created by the constitution, unless implicitly repealed by amendment, would survive an Article 1 challenge.

A functional government would therefore probably need judicial magic, as I doubt the Dutch constitution is extensive enough to cover every basis. Even a catch-all "necessity" clause would still be ripe for judicial magic abuse, as there probably isn't a metric to measure the "necessity".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 17, 2023, 11:51:11 am

Well, there's the 'Algemene Wet Gelijke Behandeling'  (common law for equal treatment), which further specifies the 'whatever other basis', and our criminal law, article 137 contains guidelines on how to penalize discrimination.
It is mostly a catch all for unfair grounds of discimination not specifically mentioned.

The equal in equal cases means that, for example, you cannot pay a different wage to men or women who do the same, or very similar work.
It does not disallow justified discrimination, like only hiring someone to be a doctor who has actually gone to med school (thereby discriminating people who did not go to med school).

Must be noted that the Dutch laws cannot be directly tested to the Constitution once they have been passed. Our Constitution is a guideline for judges and politicians, to use as a basis for passing judgement and making new laws.
It is one of the Senate's tasks to look at new legislation and see if it is in accordance with the Constitution.
And then it is a judge's task to look at the laws and see if jurisprudence is needed in cases where in practical application, new laws have friction with the Constitution.

You cannot go to court saying 'Somebody broke art. 1 of the constitution, I will sue'.
Instead you file discrimination charges, and a judge will look at the appropriate articles in the corresponding field of law (criminal law, administrative law, civil law) to pass judgement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2023, 06:20:34 pm

Quote from: da_nang on January 17, 2023, 10:54:16 am

How does "whatever other basis" work?

Gingers, short, tall, people with eating disorders?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 17, 2023, 06:34:23 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2023, 06:20:34 pm

Quote from: da_nang on January 17, 2023, 10:54:16 am

How does "whatever other basis" work?

Gingers, short, tall, people with eating disorders?

Those all fall under disability hohohoho.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2023, 08:38:38 pm

Quote from: hector13 on January 17, 2023, 06:34:23 pm

Those all fall under disability hohohoho.

You've made an enemy of Scotsmen! Just like the Scots and the English, or the Scots and the Welsh, or Scots and the Japanese, or Scots and other Scots!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on January 17, 2023, 09:34:44 pm

You Scots sure are a contentious people.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 17, 2023, 10:49:21 pm

What’s wrong with having a wee moan that gets out of hand every so often?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on January 18, 2023, 05:03:35 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 17, 2023, 06:20:34 pm

Quote from: da_nang on January 17, 2023, 10:54:16 am

How does "whatever other basis" work?

Gingers, short, tall, people with eating disorders?

You could have all of those traits (bar one) in a single person.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2023, 08:10:30 am

Quote from: TD1 on January 18, 2023, 05:03:35 am

You could have all of those traits (bar one) in a single person.

One short leg, one tall leg, prone to over-eating and starving yourself, and ginger who's also partially balding

Quote from: hector13 on January 17, 2023, 10:49:21 pm

What’s wrong with having a wee moan that gets out of hand every so often?

Moaning in public is like shaking at a urinal, a few times is acceptable, occasionally necessary, but past a certain threshold it becomes taboooooooooooo

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on January 18, 2023, 02:44:50 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2023, 08:10:30 am

Quote from: TD1 on January 18, 2023, 05:03:35 am

You could have all of those traits (bar one) in a single person.

One short leg, one tall leg, prone to over-eating and starving yourself, and ginger who's also partially balding

Quote from: hector13 on January 17, 2023, 10:49:21 pm

What’s wrong with having a wee moan that gets out of hand every so often?

Moaning in public is like shaking at a urinal, a few times is acceptable, occasionally necessary, but past a certain threshold it becomes taboooooooooooo

OoooaaaaoooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH makes sense.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2023, 05:31:40 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2023, 08:10:30 am

Moaning in public is like shaking at a urinal, a few times is acceptable, occasionally necessary, but past a certain threshold it becomes taboooooooooooo

I have hit a hiatus in my knowledge of the english language.
What does 'shaking at a urinal' mean?

Does this mean you hit the physcial urinal building until it's chemical contents spill over the street, or does this mean you are shaking your dick in such a way that your dick rain hits your urinal neihgbors?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 18, 2023, 05:52:18 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2023, 05:31:40 pm

I have hit a hiatus in my knowledge of the english language.
What does 'shaking at a urinal' mean?

Does this mean you hit the physcial urinal building until it's chemical contents spill over the street, or does this mean you are shaking your dick in such a way that your dick rain hits your urinal neihgbors?

Urinal etiquette in the American and somewhat in the British communities is that after you finish urinating you shake your dick (vertically usually) to get the last drops off to avoid any marks on your clothes, but no more than twice. Three or more times is considered to be impolite as it's considered borderline masturbation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2023, 06:52:28 pm

I pity those societies that are so afraid of taboo that they actually keep track of the number of dick wiggles at a urinal.

O tempora o mores

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on January 18, 2023, 06:54:49 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on January 18, 2023, 06:52:28 pm

I pity those societies that are so afraid of taboo that they actually keep track of the number of dick wiggles at a urinal

I'd just like to add that I've never heard of this and I think it sounds dumb, so calling it "American" is overly broad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 18, 2023, 06:57:08 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB5zqLeuAPc

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on January 18, 2023, 07:53:50 pm

It's widespread enough to have entered into several American comedy shows. Doesn't mean it's something pan-American or anything, but it means there's enough relevancy for it to hold traction as a joke.

If I were to hazard a guess it's probably something from Christian parents who don't want their kids to masturbate, like the hairy palms or going blind stuff.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 18, 2023, 07:59:11 pm

The first time I came across the concept was in a movie. A body swap thing in which Rob Schneider’s Trump character has their consciousness swapped with a high school cheerleader.

I believe there was a toilet attendant teaching the girl-in-Rob-Schneider’s-body how to pee, and said something along the lines “now shake it, but only do it twice. Otherwise you’re playing with it.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: bloop_bleep on January 19, 2023, 03:04:32 am

I have never heard this idea. But it seems like it is just a usual common sense thing. I am acutely aware of these things, unlike my friend, who stared blankly at a girl waiting for her to see him while inadvertently having his hand on top of his lap and bouncing his knee. Thankfully he knew the girl well enough to explain it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2023, 03:18:10 am

Either that or you use the supreme helicopter technique

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 19, 2023, 03:20:19 am

Bonus points for helicopter noises.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2023, 03:30:27 am

You get crowned pub King if you have a mate on speaker phone directing you from mission control

"Gamma rho gamma, this is mission control, LZ is prepped you are clear for landing"
"In the pipe five by five mission control, initiating spin"
"THWUPTHWUPTHWUPTHWUP"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on January 19, 2023, 11:30:33 am

True champions reach below and give it a quick hoist to properly expel any trapped remnants.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Cyroth on January 20, 2023, 03:26:27 am

Ah yes, the good old gooch press.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on January 25, 2023, 03:53:43 pm

The Swedish right wing government just voted to keep the details of a new electricity price subsidy under strict secrecy for 20 years. After harsh criticism from the Council on Legislation, and all. I wonder who will take part of these subsidies, now that no one can fault the distribution for being strange and unfair? Perhaps friends of the government members? No, that couldn't be.

Blegh.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on January 25, 2023, 04:01:08 pm

Is there a statute of limitations on corruption in government in Sweden?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 25, 2023, 04:12:08 pm

Officially, no.
There is an unwritten rule though, that every government official that is about to commit an act of corruption, will first have to eat 100g of sürstromming, not just swallowing it whole, but actually chewing on it for a full minute.
This has worked remarkably well throughout the ages to keep corruption to a bare minimum in Sweden.

However, then came corona. A lot of people lost their sense of smell and taste. Corruption has never been as high in Sweden before.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 27, 2023, 08:19:06 am

Quote from: martinuzz on January 25, 2023, 04:12:08 pm

Officially, no.
There is an unwritten rule though, that every government official that is about to commit an act of corruption, will first have to eat 100g of sürstromming, not just swallowing it whole, but actually chewing on it for a full minute.
This has worked remarkably well throughout the ages to keep corruption to a bare minimum in Sweden.

However, then came corona. A lot of people lost their sense of smell and taste. Corruption has never been as high in Sweden before.

Something is rotten in the state of Sweden

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on January 27, 2023, 11:40:14 am

In happier news the state secretary got caught fishing eels too slippery for his greedy mitts and had to resign today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: pisskop on February 15, 2023, 11:07:41 am

part of my news program in the morning is listening to the British news. They've been talking about this woman who they think went and disappeared by the river?

this morning they said that they had classified or is high risk and high vulnerability, but they wouldn't say what they mean by that. Is there something in between the lines here? What are they trying to say without saying?

are they trying to say that they expected her to go missing *based upon* certain qualities she has? I feel like that's what they're trying to say, but seen it post facto just seems superfluous.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 15, 2023, 11:58:51 am

According to the BBC it means she’s at significant risk of harm, though they won’t say more than it’s based on “specific vulnerabilities” and information pointed out by her partner.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 15, 2023, 04:11:34 pm

A group of women who were placed into the care of the 'Good Sheperd' nun's cloisters in the period between 1940 and 1970, after being taken from their home for various reasons (abuse, sexual abuse, alcoholist parents, poverty, sickness, you name it) have started a lawsuit against the catholic church and the dutch state, blaming them for forced labour, abuse and extortion when they were just girls aged 12-18.

"the cloister was a factory, and we were their means of production", the women say.

"These girls were, often by government mandate, locked up and forced to work in seamstress' workshops and laundries, under duress of punishment when not complying", their lawyer says.
"They are entitled to payment of overdue wages".

A research report from 2019 already classified the circumstances the girls were put in as 'falling under the international definition of forced labour and slavery'.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 15, 2023, 08:45:53 pm

Quote from: pisskop on February 15, 2023, 11:07:41 am

part of my news program in the morning is listening to the British news. They've been talking about this woman who they think went and disappeared by the river?

this morning they said that they had classified or is high risk and high vulnerability, but they wouldn't say what they mean by that. Is there something in between the lines here? What are they trying to say without saying?

are they trying to say that they expected her to go missing *based upon* certain qualities she has? I feel like that's what they're trying to say, but seen it post facto just seems superfluous.

Quote from: hector13 on February 15, 2023, 11:58:51 am

According to the BBC it means she’s at significant risk of harm, though they won’t say more than it’s based on “specific vulnerabilities” and information pointed out by her partner.

It means she's nuts.
She's a nutter that wandered off. Probably had a brain injury or something.

Since you can't say someone is nuts, the media beats around the bush, but it's fairly obvious. 
It's also possible the media can't confirm because her doctor certainly can't say she is nuts.

Sounds like there could be an implication that she is suicidal.  Which is difficult to confirm by the media, but probably common knowledge among the government.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 15, 2023, 10:22:45 pm

She’s alcoholic, apparently. Dealing poorly with the menopause.

The police do have the dignity of the family to consider though, which is presumably why it took them three weeks to mention it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 16, 2023, 10:57:50 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 15, 2023, 10:22:45 pm

She’s alcoholic, apparently. Dealing poorly with the menopause.

The police do have the dignity of the family to consider though, which is presumably why it took them three weeks to mention it.

What makes her "specifically vulnerable"? I thought you were all alcoholics....

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on February 17, 2023, 04:53:38 am

Eh? No. Drinking alcohol is not the same as being an alcoholic.

The latter is distinguished by lack of control, damaged relationships with friends of family, and possibly alcohol withdrawal symptoms (confusion, etc).

Which in itself makes her vulnerable. Though I'd say there's probably a deeper emotional or mental reason for the alcoholism (hector seems to be suggesting hormone issues).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 17, 2023, 01:46:21 pm

That’s what was reported by the police, according to the Beeb.

To be honest they shouldn’t be telling people that. The fact it’s been in the news for over three weeks with nothing to report is ridiculous though (which is a problem with the media, not the police. “Pretty white woman goes missing” apparently needs coverage every hour on the hour regardless of developments) which is probably why they felt the need to say those things.

People have been abusing local dignitaries and also some sort of macabre tourism is taking place also, which isn’t helping the police do their job, presumably as a consequence of the excess coverage.

Title: Re: The crude and missed Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 18, 2023, 12:24:51 am

Maybe if I change the tread title...
Though to be fair, they do the exact same thing in the US.

It's entirely possible that the leak about her being an alcoholic came from her family/friends whoring for attention. We get that all the time in the US.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 18, 2023, 02:27:26 am

It came from the police. They said something about specific vulnerabilities, then a few hours later said she had issues with alcohol.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 18, 2023, 04:37:00 pm

Recent BBC news article mentioned that Tiktok conspiracy theorists have been swarming the area, trespassing on local properties, etcetera.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on February 18, 2023, 04:45:17 pm

‘cause it’s been in the news every day since it happened, with very little to report. Nature abhors a vacuum; in this instance, people have filled it with all manner of bollocks.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 18, 2023, 04:58:16 pm

Quote from: hector13 on February 18, 2023, 04:45:17 pm

‘cause it’s been in the news every day since it happened, with very little to report. Nature abhors a vacuum; in this instance, people have filled it with all manner of bollocks.

That's what they want you to think!
 ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Grim Portent on February 18, 2023, 06:29:49 pm

We really should do something about news companies spamming out articles when they don't actually have anything to say. Just warps people's perception of events.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2023, 08:44:29 am

The EU has banned Tiktok from all staff phones (https://www.reuters.com/technology/european-parliament-ban-tiktok-staff-phones-eu-official-says-2023-02-28/)

Once more EU's internet/digital policy shows itself to be the EU's most sensible area of policy.

Complete ban next pls?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 03, 2023, 07:00:23 pm

Anyone seen TikToking will be shot on sight.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Duuvian on March 04, 2023, 04:33:27 am

Complete ban is stupid. Ban on government devices is fine. Better regulation on privacy protections across the board would be fine. Better moderation would be fine. The answer is not to hypocritically begin building a Great Firewall.

Here is something I learned about moderators (in Kenya)
https://www.techdirt.com/2023/03/03/kenyan-court-first-to-tell-meta-it-cant-walk-away-from-a-lawsuit-just-by-claiming-its-not-from-around-here/

Spoiler: From article (click to show/hide)

The allegations also detail what moderators view as pay rates much lower than what should be expected for people hired to wade through the internet cesspool on behalf of a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars. An expose of the work conditions by Time last year contains this absurd explanation for lowballing moderator pay:

    Sama’s late founder Leila Janah attempted to justify the company’s levels of pay in the region. “One thing that’s critical in our line of work is to not pay wages that would distort local labor markets,” she said. “If we were to pay people substantially more than that, we would throw everything off.”

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Culise on March 04, 2023, 04:42:00 pm

Quote from: Duuvian on March 04, 2023, 04:33:27 am

Complete ban is stupid. Ban on government devices is fine.

Quote

The ban, starting from March 20, will apply to corporate devices such as mobile phones and tablets which are enrolled in Parliament's mobile management application, a Parliament spokesperson said.

So the issue is what?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 04, 2023, 06:03:28 pm

He was responding to me, I think

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Duuvian on March 05, 2023, 01:50:23 am

Yes I was.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 05, 2023, 09:57:48 pm

Quote from: Duuvian on March 04, 2023, 04:33:27 am

Complete ban is stupid. Ban on government devices is fine. Better regulation on privacy protections across the board would be fine. Better moderation would be fine. The answer is not to hypocritically begin building a Great Firewall.

Here is something I learned about moderators (in Kenya)
https://www.techdirt.com/2023/03/03/kenyan-court-first-to-tell-meta-it-cant-walk-away-from-a-lawsuit-just-by-claiming-its-not-from-around-here/

Spoiler: From article (click to show/hide)

The allegations also detail what moderators view as pay rates much lower than what should be expected for people hired to wade through the internet cesspool on behalf of a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars. An expose of the work conditions by Time last year contains this absurd explanation for lowballing moderator pay:

    Sama’s late founder Leila Janah attempted to justify the company’s levels of pay in the region. “One thing that’s critical in our line of work is to not pay wages that would distort local labor markets,” she said. “If we were to pay people substantially more than that, we would throw everything off.”

So is the joke that Kenya's Judges understand long-arm jurisdiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-arm_jurisdiction) better than their EU counterparts?
I have to admit, that is kinda funny.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 14, 2023, 12:45:34 pm

The EU Commission has presented it's new plans for the EU electricity sector. They want to give citizens the right to demand a long-term contract with set prices. Citizens can combine such a contract with a more dynamic contract, that follows the energy costs in real time. This can be good for people who want to use the lower electricity prices at night to charge their electric car.
They also want to give member states the authority to set a maximum price for electricity in case of an energy crisis.

Surprisingly social, they also added a clause that they will forbid energy companies from cutting off people from electricity even if they are in debt.

The Commission wants to go all-in on a transition to more durable forms of electricity generation. Gas powered plants will be phased out, sustainable energy sources (including not only solar, water and wind but also hydrogen and nuclear power) need to be at least tripled by 2030.

To make this possible, governments will be allowed to subsidize sustainable energy companies. The Commission wants there to be both a set minimum price for energy (financial stability for energy producers), as well as a maximum price (financial stability for energy consumers). Excessive profits will be taxed to be given back to the consumers.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on March 14, 2023, 11:21:14 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 14, 2023, 12:45:34 pm

-snip-

What is this reasonable nonsense? We can't have that in politics!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 15, 2023, 01:10:05 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 14, 2023, 12:45:34 pm

The Commission wants to go all-in on a transition to more durable forms of electricity generation. Gas powered plants will be phased out, sustainable energy sources (including not only solar, water and wind but also hydrogen and nuclear power) need to be at least tripled by 2030.

Lets hope it is sustainable because some of that can get really expensive. While more solar and wind is great, as they have become so cost competitive in recent years that in some case they cost less than even operating existing fossil fuel power plants. However, one can't rely on intermittent energy alone, and new Nuclear power plants is the costliest method of production[1], and hydrogen is costlier than gas maybe even costlier than nuclear.

More importantly you will need to invest heavily in energy storage and upgrading your infrastructure. I haven't been following closely but it seem that EU has been investing heavily in that in recent years, however, it is unclear on what schedule and if it is enough. Planed HVDC interconnector and submarine power to Africa or Asia could allow to reduce cost in the long run. (btw the one of the proposed route to Asia goes through Georgia)

[1] i am going by USA data, could be different for EU due to economy of scale, though I doubt its by much, until now all the recent project I heard about went roughly like UKs highspeed train project :/

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Madman198237 on March 15, 2023, 10:02:19 am

If you maintain a nuclear power plant and keep it running for a long time then it can become the cheapest power source because the fuel is so inexpensive (per kWh). The initial investment scares away today's profits-now obsessed investors and businesspeople.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 15, 2023, 10:10:11 am

Most nuclear power plants do not have a long enough lifespan to make cheap fuel worth the investment. Not to mention that running a nuclear plant requires more than just the fuel. Skilled staff, high security, just to mention a few. Nuclear power is expensive power.

The main benefit of nuclear power right now is it's low CO2 footprint.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 15, 2023, 03:34:28 pm

In today's elections for the Dutch provincial government (and indirectly, the Senate), newcomer populist farmer party 'BBB' seems to have become the largest party according to exit polls.
Their main theme is being against nitrogen emission regulations for farmers, and they support using tractors to protest.

Strange times

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 15, 2023, 03:46:38 pm

Tractors must be allowed to vote!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 15, 2023, 03:56:10 pm

Tractors are speech.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 15, 2023, 06:43:09 pm

But only if everyone gets a tractor!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 15, 2023, 08:57:34 pm

and lower retirement age as well.

Quote from: martinuzz on March 15, 2023, 10:10:11 am

Most nuclear power plants do not have a long enough lifespan to make cheap fuel worth the investment. Not to mention that running a nuclear plant requires more than just the fuel. Skilled staff, high security, just to mention a few. Nuclear power is expensive power.

Also a Russian company control much (most? over 50% iirc) of the nuclear fuel market, so if you push to phase out gas to reduced dependence on Russia it's a catch 22

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 16, 2023, 07:07:28 am

Even the BBC has pictures of tractors and upside down dutch flags (the recently adopted protest symbol by farmers, alt righters and conspiracy nutters alike)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64967513

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on March 17, 2023, 03:33:04 am

France’s Macron risks his government to raise retirement age (https://apnews.com/article/france-retirement-age-strikes-macron-garbage-07455d88d10bf7ae623043e4d05090de)

He has decided to bypass the French Parliament by using Article 49.3 of the French Constitution. Retirement age has now been raised without a vote in Parliament.

How courageous^{[1] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik8JT2S-kBE)}. Protests are flaring up nationwide.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on March 17, 2023, 04:09:40 am

What's the point of having a good economy if you don't have the free time to enjoy it? But I guess for Macron this is a good deal - he might get an early retirement! What a doofus.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 17, 2023, 05:05:24 am

What is a measure of a good economy? Some French populist suggested lowering retirement age, maybe they should do that.

Personally, I see some similarities between the Dutch tractor bandwagon and here.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 17, 2023, 06:42:35 am

We should *all* lower retirement age. That's one of the benefits of productivity the employee classes has been denied for ~50 years now.

Lower retirement ages, shorter work weeks and days. That's what a people's prosperity is measured in.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on March 17, 2023, 07:10:27 am

Good economy as in the argument for raising the retirement age being to improve the economy. The point of having a good economy (which is some abstraction of money, resources) should be to uphold the living standards of the people. This point is half made in the BBC article, presumably coming from Macron;
"Raising the retirement age will make workers put more money into the system, which the government says is on course to run a deficit.". Governments obviously need money to fund hospitals, schools, and whatever other welfare, so that living standard may be threatened. At the same time, raising the retirement age also obviously diminishes the living standard of people, since they get less free time. It is an trade-off, which should be decided democratically. And sure, that applies to the suggestion of lowering the retirement age as well. If people want fewer work hours, then they can vote for it. There's of course a problem with populists who don't back up the hows and pretend there is no trade-off, but the suggestion is not wrong by itself.
The problem is Macron side-stepping the democratic process.

The difference between this and the nitrogen emission is that emissions makes life worse for everybody for the foreseeable future, while fewer people working in France predominantly strikes against the French themselves, and only as long as they have the same work hours.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 17, 2023, 05:21:17 pm

Although putting it to an honest vote would be laying out the choices as:
* Mandatory baby making.
* Raise the retirement age.
* Massively increase immigration rates.
* Legalize Euthanasia for the elderly.
* Let it all burn the fuck down.

The issue being faced by pretty much every country outside of Africa recently is that modern economics doesn't seem to have anything to handle a birth rate below replacement rate and we're approaching that point of the population curve.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 17, 2023, 06:04:19 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on March 17, 2023, 05:21:17 pm

Although putting it to an honest vote would be laying out the choices as:
* Mandatory baby making.
* Raise the retirement age.
* Massively increase immigration rates.
* Legalize Euthanasia for the elderly.
* Let it all burn the fuck down.

The issue being faced by pretty much every country outside of Africa recently is that modern economics doesn't seem to have anything to handle a birth rate below replacement rate and we're approaching that point of the population curve.

This is melodramatic. The risk isn't the system burning down or the elderly needing to be euthanized en masse - it's just a decline in the standard of living for both the elderly and their carers. That's going to happen one way or the other regardless, but it's not something "modern economics can't handle", it's a pretty standard resource allocation problem no different from the ones modern economics handles millions of times daily. We're not staring at some kind of productivity cliff where Europe can't support its population anymore - everything's stable on that front for decades at least. However, people who can't work productively are going to have less stuff, due to there no longer being enough stuff to go around at current rates.

(And a little math shows that massively increasing immigration leads to more strain on resources, not less. That would actually make it worse.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 17, 2023, 06:33:16 pm

I was being a tad facetious with the "burn it all down" comment, yes :) But the issue isn't resource allocation, it's a drop in resource output from population decline that concerns governments and some economicists. (Plus a drop in QoL is generally assumed to lead to civil unrest, and people are dumb so that has a risk of leading to the Very Bad Things).

Using immigration to drain excess population from other countries, raising the retirement age, and making more babies are ways to maintain output (in the short-term at least), whilst reduction of the cared-for population would reduce the burden on what is being output to try and balance out the reduction from population decline*. Western countries have been relying on the former for a few decades now, but that well is drying up. The "Middle World" is joining the "below 2.1" club this decade, quite a few of them already have, and Africa is predicted to do so next decade.

By modern economics I meant the whole "globalised assumption of continued exponential growth of GDP over time". From the theorizing I've seen, population shrinkage is assumed to lead to GDP reduction, which leads to "everybody panic aaaah fire burn it down mad max time! oh wait that didn't happen? huh...oh no it's happening again aaaah!".

The potential "End of Global Economic Growth" is touted as being the next "The Bad Thing" to deal with, so Governments are trying to find ways to put that off for some future lot to deal with.

(* Also never said mandatory euthanasia, the (somewhat weird) argument I've seen from the people concerned about the "cliff edge" is that legalized voluntary euthanasia for general quality of life reasons rather than only terminal illness would be 'enough')

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: voliol on March 18, 2023, 03:08:17 am

Two points I wonder about, hopefully not too naïvely:

Why are the French (and Italians who are already at the numbers feared) not having children? Are they overworked like the Japanese who can't focus on family-making, or does having children put a strain on their private economy or freedom that they can't handle? Do they worry their children won't have good lives? Or do people don't like children as much these days (this seems very unlikely to me)? It seems weird to me to focus on choosing the symptoms, instead of eliminating the causes.

What happened to the economic growth, which ought to be a constant (as in, always there) in capitalist economies? I remember it being big news when corona caused the GDP to decrease in places, since normally it only goes up by varying amounts. Is it made null by an equal population growth? Or does it only happen when a population is predominantly young people?
The economic growth should also coincide with the development of technology. If people's worries about being replaced by computerized systems (e.g. automized checkouts) and AI are in any way real, shouldn't we be expecting a higher productivity?  Or is the economic growth funneled somewhere else, instead of the welfare of the population? I.e. is capitalism working its wheels - has French wealth inequality increased over the last decennia? 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 18, 2023, 04:05:30 am

The Italians is still living with their mothers

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 18, 2023, 04:46:53 am

Quote from: voliol on March 18, 2023, 03:08:17 am

Two points I wonder about, hopefully not too naïvely:

Why are the French (and Italians who are already at the numbers feared) not having children? Are they overworked like the Japanese who can't focus on family-making, or does having children put a strain on their private economy or freedom that they can't handle? Do they worry their children won't have good lives? Or do people don't like children as much these days (this seems very unlikely to me)? It seems weird to me to focus on choosing the symptoms, instead of eliminating the causes.

Nobody really knows for sure and the answer is disputed, but I will tell you one thing: it's certainly far beyond just the French and Italians. If I'm not mistaken, the French have the highest fertility rate in Europe, although it seems a demographic breakdown shows that the "native" French are also below 2, and the national rate is pulled up by immigrants. Just about every other country in, essentially, the entire "first world" is under 2 (which is the replacement rate - two children to replace two parents so the population is stable).

As for why? No two people agree. But it seems to me like a rational prediction of the logistic curve. There are an awful lot of people already and they're not making any more space, at least not counting tiny land reclamation projects here and there that are, sorry, a drop in the ocean. Given that, should you expect that people would just reproduce infinitely to a Malthusian maximum? Would you want to?

Quote

What happened to the economic growth, which ought to be a constant (as in, always there) in capitalist economies? I remember it being big news when corona caused the GDP to decrease in places, since normally it only goes up by varying amounts. Is it made null by an equal population growth? Or does it only happen when a population is predominantly young people?
The economic growth should also coincide with the development of technology. If people's worries about being replaced by computerized systems (e.g. automized checkouts) and AI are in any way real, shouldn't we be expecting a higher productivity?  Or is the economic growth funneled somewhere else, instead of the welfare of the population? I.e. is capitalism working its wheels - has French wealth inequality increased over the last decennia?

Now this part I could write a book about. Maybe I should. Let me start here.

Quote

What happened to the economic growth, which ought to be a constant (as in, always there) in capitalist economies?

Why ought it to be? How could it be?
In order to understand where economic growth comes from and where it goes, first we have to answer the question... what do we actually mean by "economic growth" anyway? It's not a number on a chart. I can write any number on a chart and it won't make anyone feel any better. The number has to mean something for real people. But when we speak of "economic growth", it's too easy to, and too many people do, get distracted by the abstraction and/or abstracted by the distraction and treat it like a number with no consequences and no rules besides math operations.

For me, the definition is simple, but it may require a little background. You see, we can talk about "embodied energy", which is simply the amount of energy that went into doing something. So, as a simple example, the embodied energy of a nugget of iron ore in your hand is greater than that same nugget in the ground, because it took effort to mine it out; smelt it into iron, refine it into steel, shape it into a knife, and the embodied energy goes up at every step.
Embodied energy in and of itself is not a great metric for economic growth, though, because energy can just be wasted in lots of ways. So to me, economic growth is best understood as the increase in embodied energy of resources in ways that improve someone's standard of living. In other words, loosely speaking, the production of more and better goods that someone out there wants.

The problem here should be obvious: no economists, governments, or really anyone use that definition of economic growth in any formal context. The standard is just to talk about GDP, or GDP per capita if you're lucky. But these are both meaningless numbers - if you and I each have a delicious carrot, the economy is unchanged; but if I pay you $50 for your carrot and you pay me $50 for mine, GDP goes up $100. I hope it's clear, then, that the definition I gave above is the kind of economic growth that people really want and work for. I hope it's also clear that that kind of growth cannot just keep going up. There are only so many resources and there is only so much energy that can be used to extract and refine them; and on top of that, there is only so much degree to which you can really improve someone's living standard and expect him to notice. Now you may reasonably say that there is still a lot of "want" left in the world, a lot of room to improve standards of living for a lot of people, and that's true, but there's less now than likely ever before in history, especially in the developed world, and there are real diminishing returns, and the world is looking with increasing diffidence at those absolute resource limits... and as standards of living do rise, miners and smelters want those new and better goods too, which means you have to give them more things to convince them to be miners and smelters or else they will try to find some other way to get them, and so costs rise everywhere in the system just to stay in the same place.
So, even in an ideal resource allocation scenario, growth in real meaningful terms must get harder and slow down over time. The only thing that's even kept it afloat as far as it has is technology, as people learn ways to use less energy to get the same goods — and this has clear theoretical limits. There's no such thing as a post-scarcity future, ever; and if there was, people would breed up to the point where things start becoming scarce again. Which, of course, has happened many times in the history of the settlement of new lands.

You'll note that I did not define growth so as to exclude wealth inequality - making life better for one guy counts just as much as making life better for everyone - and that's because growth in real terms inevitably slows down for everyone. In fact, because of the diminishing returns on standard of living, it slows down even faster "at the top". Even when wealth inequality increases, this doesn't on its own "funnel away economic growth" in the sense I'm using - most wealth exists on paper, and the rich are not actually taking more than a trivial excess of real physical goods over anyone else. This hasn't always been true; certainly in feudal Europe, the wealthy got that way by actively lowering everyone else's standard of living in the form of literally taking their stuff. But for now, wealth inequality cannot explain much of the growth problem. Even when some rich guy buys up a company and fires a bunch of people, it's just not really making a dent overall.

Okay, so why is GDP also stumbling, given that it has been decoupled from real human-meaningful productivity for decades? Well, I could write a lot more about this but I feel like I might be running into some post length limits any time soon, so I'll just say this: GDP can be inflated by purely paper transactions that don't affect anyone's real life, but real standard of living improvements are still what people want and work for. That parasitic paper economy still needs a working foundation to live off, or else people stop taking your Papiermarks anymore. When that foundation shrinks, and the paper gets more self-incestuously leveraged, the numbers get swingier and you start to see busts that can make whole filing cabinets full of paper worthless in minutes. GDP no longer tracks production, but it's still sensitive to it because production is still the motivation people have for wanting money in the first place.

So to really put the fine point to your question, if you had a million dollars (if you had a million dollars), where would you invest it and expect a return? Would you build a factory, producing what, staffed by whom, where? If you expect growth, where would it come from?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 18, 2023, 05:01:53 am

Quote from: voliol on March 18, 2023, 03:08:17 am

Why are the French (and Italians who are already at the numbers feared) not having children?

The why is a very difficult question, some of the underlying causes here are in the realm of wicked problems, but concerning Macron proposal population aging in France is a fact. Which is affected by ever increasing life expectancy (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tarmo-Valkonen/publication/260158317/figure/fig5/AS:669421311889408@1536613886025/The-total-life-expectancy-and-old-age-retirement-age.png) and decrease in fertility. For perspective in 1950, four workers were financing one pensioner, today this halved and by 2040 this is expected to fall to 1.3 workers per one pensioner.

Overall France has the lowest retirement age in OCED, with 14% of its public spending goes toward its pension (the highest of any except Greece and Italy), economy wise they are in the EU's "global south", with multiple economic challenges ahead including but not limited to the unexpected Putin's war, which put an end to Europe's peace dividend for starters. Overall, I think the decision to raise retirement age has merit.

Quote from: voliol on March 17, 2023, 07:10:27 am

The difference between this and the nitrogen emission is that emissions makes life worse for everybody for the foreseeable future.

I am not sure I agree with this framing. You can similarly side step the issue in France saying that impending deficit will make life worse for everybody, and focus on tradeoffs regarding Netherlands government decision to halve the country's livestock in few years which its proponents argue will threaten the economic, social and cultural viability of rural Netherlands.

Regardless the similarity I was referring to meta wise, concerning how the populist seem to be exploiting these incidents for broader antigovernmental protest bashing on these piñatas for all their electoral worth for the long run.

Quote from: voliol on March 17, 2023, 07:10:27 am

The problem is Macron side-stepping the democratic process.

I am not sure it is undemocratic. From what I skimmed it seem like part of the democratic game (to date it have seen the most use by a Socialist PM who passed minimum social assistance welfare program) and has a built in no-confidence vote, and failing that the decision could be overturned next time.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 18, 2023, 12:45:31 pm

The tldr of my opinion is what is actually democractic is not as simple as "People vote and what the majority vote for is what happens". Because following that idea of democracy makes direct democracy tyranny of the majority the ideal, and a pure majority-decides unrestricted Direct Democracy would be closer to Nazi Germany than anything resembling a fair and liberal society. Life for the minority would quickly work out 'nasty, brutish, and short'.

The whole idea behind having a "political class" and constitutions and "unelected" judical branch is to prevent certain things from happening even if elected officials or a majority of people voted for it, and allow certain things to happen even if it goes against majority opinion, and allowing for that to happen in a managed way must be a part of the democractic process.

So the debate if this counts as a legitimate use of that power to keep the wheels actually turning, or a loophole within that neccesary power being used. But the power itself is still fitting and needed into the practical workings of a democracy and vital to the maintainence of it.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 19, 2023, 04:55:37 am

We should have a vote on this to decide what democracy is

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 19, 2023, 05:12:48 am

I think not. What we need is a strong leader to tell us what democracy is.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 19, 2023, 07:27:53 am

I guess that's one way of looking at 'one man, one vote'

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 19, 2023, 08:42:16 pm

I think the only vote which counts is when my Count votes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2023, 10:49:29 pm

Good news!

I counted up all your votes, along with others, and discovered the answer!

Macron's a dick, so he's out.

Instead, this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile) is your new President of France, Europe, and Everything Else Important.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 19, 2023, 10:52:53 pm

That link always shows it’s been visited so I always know what it is.

I still click on it though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 20, 2023, 06:29:46 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 19, 2023, 10:52:53 pm

That link always shows it’s been visited so I always know what it is.

I still click on it though.

It's a tradition at this point

Still, I wonder how long the land-owning and pension-raking segment of the electorate is going to abandon politicians who worship GDP and property prices like some god instead of... Actually doing anything to improve life. It's like seeing those ultra-wealthy who keep fighting tooth and nail to increase their wealth despite living poor lives, and every extra million doing nothing to actually improve their life. At what point do we stop struggling to accumulate the wealth we already need to make things right?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 09:53:25 am

Under my administration, Europe would make great strides in Medieval history studies.

And experience a reversal in fortune in all unrelated sectors.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 20, 2023, 10:31:25 am

My first act will be to kill the whole lot o' ya and burn yer town to cinders! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ_ViQxKYL4&ab_channel=Darojax)

Speaking of burning it all down, to the surprise of nobody the DUP reject the new Windser Framework (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65008991).

I do wonder, considering this was the only unionist political party still around that voted against the Good Friday Agreement, is there anybody who honestly believes they're actually acting in good faith?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 10:55:39 am

Eh, show me the man who holds that politicians act in good faith and I will show you a fool.

As regards disagreement concerning the Windsor Agreement, DUP constituents tend to wish for tighter integration into the UK - not a measure which would further underscore separation from the mainland.

If you think 'acting in good faith' means 'doing what their constituents want,' then I'd suggest they're being about as faithful as possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 20, 2023, 11:01:40 am

By not acting in good faith, I mean "actively trying to force a customs border between NI and ROI without just coming out and saying that's what they're doing".

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 11:18:36 am

*Shrug*

The DUP acts on ideology and conviction/principle more than most parties. Their raison d'etre is to preserve the union. They're profoundly against anything counter to that. They've been fairly upfront that they view a customs border down the Irish sea to be ideologically incompatible with their party's aims - it is, for them, a distancing of NI from the UK.

So yea, they're against any negotiations which solidify that border.

Do they have a preferred alternative, namely a customs border between NI and ROI? Possibly, maybe even probably. But even so, they've been fairly transparent on why this solution is against their party line.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 20, 2023, 11:23:49 am

Yeah, but the entire existance of Stormont is based on the notion of compromise between Unionism and Republicanism to allow both to coexist in a way neither are completely happy with. Stormont's very existence is fundementally tied to NI being slightly separate to the rest of the UK. If DUP are ideologically unable to accept any compromise on that front, they should simply state they are permanently withdrawing from Stormont and never shall return because that's what they're actually doing.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 20, 2023, 11:41:31 am

I think the current government in Scotland would be cool with being slightly separate from the rUK.

On the one hand I’m surprised it wasn’t mooted as a solution to the current NI issues, both before the deal was signed and as a consequence of the DUP’s recalcitrance, but on the other hand I’m not surprised the Tories lack pragmatism in the face of giving the SNP a win, or just generally disregard anything outside of SE England because that’s where the votes are.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 11:47:54 am

Firstly, Stormont's current configuration is based on a compromise, but the institution exists to effectively wield devolved power. 25 years ago, this required a shared power initiative. I'd argue that today the same configuration is actively against Stormont's premise.

Secondly, devolved power is a trait of the union. A customs border and regulations imposed by the EU is no longer a UK trait.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 20, 2023, 12:11:23 pm

The border is a consequence of a botched vote come about by Tory arrogance, though. Cameron was convinced that nobody would vote to leave the EU so didn’t put in any caveats about different parts of the UK voting for different things.

Scotland and NI both voted to stay, which really should have stopped Brexit before it even happened, but the “equal partnership” only works when the partners vote with England.

As for Stormont, The unionists don’t want a border with the UK, trade or otherwise, and the Republicans don’t want a border with the rest of Ireland (the island, not the country :p) but neither of them can really get that after Brexit. Currently the Republicans get the benefit of that because politicians domestic, continental, and globa are all terribly aware of the return of terrorism should the GF/BA fall to bits.

Currently there are more members elected to that body that are in favour of the NI Protocol in its original form than against it, so the DUP should really drop the D from their name because democracy is not at the top of their list, but given the unionist position essentially being summed up in this quote, emphasis mine:

Quote

Jim Allister, leader of Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) said the agreement "does not live up to the overselling spin which accompanied it".

"As for it being enough to cause unionists to give up its Stormont leverage and settle for this deal, which comes with the added packaging of a Sinn Fein First Minister, then, no thanks," he said.

I am also not surprised.

Edit: forgot a link to the article (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-64794091) the quote comes from.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2023, 12:36:34 pm

Dont worry TD1. If there's a border poll and you end up in a reeducation camp to learn as gaeilge I'll bribe one of the guards to slip you some black pudding, tomato juice and wostercershire sauce.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 20, 2023, 01:28:24 pm

I don't see anyone walking away happy with what Rishi will eventually settle the ROI/NI/UK customs border with, but if something isn't agreed upon, Sinn Fein are going to enact their cunning plan to sit back do nothing and let DUP paralyze local government until Northern Ireland looks less governable than Iraq and as politically viable as Libya

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 01:31:32 pm

The border issue is the result of a direct appeal to the UK as a single nation, and was advertised and accepted on those terms.

As it happens, it saw England and Wales disagree with Scotland and NI. The majority vote won.

A majority vote which included 44.2% of NI votes.

Otherwise I mostly agree with your summation, though noting once again that the DUP is obliged to uphold and represent the views of its constituents, and what other parties in Stormont feel is (perhaps unfortunately) not as relevant. I'll have to look into polls for clarity.

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 20, 2023, 12:36:34 pm

Dont worry TD1. If there's a border poll and you end up in a reeducation camp to learn as gaeilge I'll bribe one of the guards to slip you some black pudding, tomato juice and wostercershire sauce.

Much appreciated! Though I'm not worried that a border poll will succeed within my lifetime.

And if it does, I'll probably just move to Scotland. I can't imagine it being a healthy period for me.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 01:32:53 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 20, 2023, 01:28:24 pm

I don't see anyone walking away happy with what Rishi will eventually settle the ROI/NI/UK customs border with, but if something isn't agreed upon, Sinn Fein are going to enact their cunning plan to sit back do nothing and let DUP paralyze local government until Northern Ireland looks less governable than Iraq and as politically viable as Libya

Indeed. If the flames weren't so close, I'd be enjoying the show.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 20, 2023, 01:46:10 pm

Quote from: TD1 on March 20, 2023, 01:32:53 pm

Indeed. If the flames weren't so close, I'd be enjoying the show.

I truly advocate for a UK-wide 4 day working week, even a 3 day one. As it is, everyone is too tired and busy to do little more than shout "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY" every time a politician or banker cripples the country, just as you would WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY every time a pub glass breaks

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 20, 2023, 03:47:40 pm

I think it was Chomsky that said something along the lines of that we should value and cherish our unemployed, because they are the only ones that still have time and incentive to read up on, and analyze the state of affairs in society.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 21, 2023, 02:38:45 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on March 18, 2023, 12:45:31 pm

The tldr of my opinion is what is actually democractic is not as simple as "People vote and what the majority vote for is what happens". Because following that idea of democracy makes direct democracy tyranny of the majority the ideal, and a pure majority-decides unrestricted Direct Democracy would be closer to Nazi Germany than anything resembling a fair and liberal society. Life for the minority would quickly work out 'nasty, brutish, and short'.

The whole idea behind having a "political class" and constitutions and "unelected" judical branch is to prevent certain things from happening even if elected officials or a majority of people voted for it, and allow certain things to happen even if it goes against majority opinion, and allowing for that to happen in a managed way must be a part of the democractic process.

So the debate if this counts as a legitimate use of that power to keep the wheels actually turning, or a loophole within that neccesary power being used. But the power itself is still fitting and needed into the practical workings of a democracy and vital to the maintainence of it.

Yes, that what I believe in and I agree with all the rest, there is a lot of danger when people do not a bid by the political rules of the game. 

Furthermore, I am struggling to see how liberal society could have been possible without this, as I doubt that most of the monumental and historic decision, like absolutism, could be passed if decision was given to the wider public, certainly not in today age of twitter freeforall version of direct democracy where everyone are pro good things and have an evil elite (coastal or economic) to blame all world folly on.

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 20, 2023, 01:46:10 pm

I truly advocate for a UK-wide 4 day working week, even a 3 day one. As it is, everyone is too tired and busy to do little more than shout "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY" every time a politician or banker cripples the country, just as you would WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY every time a pub glass breaks

Shorter workweek have proved nicely in some places, but I wonder if it is applicable more broadly. The well off would get an extra quality day, but I suspect that for most who are starting their life or in the lower socio economic standing this will not change much, they would be still working full week with extra-pay, failing that get another half time job, and at best could get grandparents a "day off" at home to catch up on stuff.

Protesting would still be the domain of mainly young, single and or those with time on their hands. Btw does your idea involve 4/3 day school week as well?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 21, 2023, 07:46:16 am

Quote from: jipehog on March 21, 2023, 02:38:45 am

Shorter workweek have proved nicely in some places, but I wonder if it is applicable more broadly. The well off would get an extra quality day, but I suspect that for most who are starting their life or in the lower socio economic standing this will not change much, they would be still working full week with extra-pay, failing that get another half time job, and at best could get grandparents a "day off" at home to catch up on stuff.

Protesting would still be the domain of mainly young, single and or those with time on their hands. Btw does your idea involve 4/3 day school week as well?

They'd still be getting overtime for those extra days, or be able to use those extra days to set up their own self-employed businesses - it is a much better alternative to doing nothing and they're still stuck with the 5 day work week anyways. With regards to school week, yeah that sounds fantastic too

Quote from: martinuzz on March 20, 2023, 03:47:40 pm

I think it was Chomsky that said something along the lines of that we should value and cherish our unemployed, because they are the only ones that still have time and incentive to read up on, and analyze the state of affairs in society.

And the ability to go out in working hours to complain ;D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 21, 2023, 09:29:27 am

As an unemployed fucker, I can tell you from the heart, that I may have the incentive and I may have the time but I sure as hell do not have the juice

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 21, 2023, 11:11:33 am

The main people I know who disagree to a 4day work week are manual labourer workers, mostly builders. I think the studies done show that it less time spent waiting for things to happen because of other people and more time doing the hard work parts, so dunno if that works as well for physical labour? I'm an office monkey through and through so can't really comment beyond that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 21, 2023, 12:57:51 pm

4 day work week wouldn't mean everyone works for 4 days though; it just means they'd be getting what they're paid for now for 4 days of work. People like truckers, healthcare workers, emergency service workers et al. who already have irregular/extended work hours get overtime for all the extra hours they put in for example. With a 3 or 4 day work week, they would still be working 5 days a week, but be getting paid extra for doing it

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2023, 02:52:25 am

Quote from: scriver on March 21, 2023, 09:29:27 am

As an unemployed fucker, I can tell you from the heart, that I may have the incentive and I may have the time but I sure as hell do not have the juice

You are not not working hard enough

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 22, 2023, 06:28:59 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on March 21, 2023, 12:57:51 pm

4 day work week wouldn't mean everyone works for 4 days though; it just means they'd be getting what they're paid for now for 4 days of work. People like truckers, healthcare workers, emergency service workers et al. who already have irregular/extended work hours get overtime for all the extra hours they put in for example. With a 3 or 4 day work week, they would still be working 5 days a week, but be getting paid extra for doing it

when I first heard about the 4-day workweek concept it involved reducing the traditional workweek from 5 days to 4 days, while maintaining the same number of hours worked per week, essentially the same idea as using double shifting to reducing commute time and winning a free day. However, what you suggest isn't a compressed work schedule, but rather flat reduction of weekly hours e.g. employees will work 32hours a week instead of 40 while receiving the same pay. The idea behind is that shorter workweek increase productivity allowing workers to accomplish the same amount of work.

I don't know about the validity of these claims (I doubt we had enough time to make through long term studies) but I am all for private companies experimenting with such ideas, it is non of my business how they choose to operate. What concerns me is your suggestion to make it mandatory country wide. When obviously some professions will not see any productivity gain from extra day off, thus you are advocate for paying more for doing less which will inevitably lead to increased cost all around. For example, for truckers working less means less cargo delivered, making their companies less competitive, with transport providers already have very low profit margins often struggling to survive this will either cause them to fail or roll the extra cost on their consumer which will effect everything (just like with fuel prices right now).

Otherwise 32 weekly hours (I seen even less) sound like crazy good (especially when compared to 996 culture extreme) the question if you can remain completive with rest of the world, as some of us would gladly take your business and then you can have 7-day unemployment week.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 08:40:19 am

Quote from: jipehog on March 22, 2023, 06:28:59 am

What concerns me is your suggestion to make it mandatory country wide. When obviously some professions will not see any productivity gain from extra day off, thus you are advocate for paying more for doing less which will inevitably lead to increased cost all around.

I think you are right. The solution is clearly to maintain the current wages and increase the workdays by one or two per week, thus increasing productivity.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 22, 2023, 09:02:08 am

92% of firms keep a four day work week after a six month trial (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230319-four-day-workweek-trial-the-firms-where-it-didnt-work).

It doesn’t work in some industries, it does apparently work in a heck of a lot of them though.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 09:14:18 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 22, 2023, 09:02:08 am

92% of firms keep a four day work week after a six month trial (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230319-four-day-workweek-trial-the-firms-where-it-didnt-work).

It doesn’t work in some industries, it does apparently work in a heck of a lot of them though.

As a counterpoint a trial in Virginia of a 7-day workweek was an astonishing success. (https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/indentured-servants-in-colonial-virginia/#:~:text=Indentured%20servants%20were%20men%20and,food%2C%20clothing%2C%20and%20shelter.)
Italy had a very successful run as well, leading to parts of Europe adopting the practice (https://study.com/academy/lesson/life-of-ancient-roman-slaves-facts-treatment-quiz.html#:~:text=Americans%20knew%20the%20practice%20as,off%20the%20debt%20over%20time.)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2023, 02:25:02 pm

In Germany, in a new series of police raids against the Reichsburger movement (an extreme right movement which seeks to restore the German Empire) , a policeman was lightly wounded when one of the Reichsburger opened fire on the police when they came with a search warrant.
The man was arrested and will be charged with attempted manslaughter.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 22, 2023, 06:52:43 pm

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 09:14:18 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 22, 2023, 09:02:08 am

92% of firms keep a four day work week after a six month trial (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230319-four-day-workweek-trial-the-firms-where-it-didnt-work).

It doesn’t work in some industries, it does apparently work in a heck of a lot of them though.

As a counterpoint a trial in Virginia of a 7-day workweek was an astonishing success. (https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/indentured-servants-in-colonial-virginia/#:~:text=Indentured%20servants%20were%20men%20and,food%2C%20clothing%2C%20and%20shelter.)
Italy had a very successful run as well, leading to parts of Europe adopting the practice (https://study.com/academy/lesson/life-of-ancient-roman-slaves-facts-treatment-quiz.html#:~:text=Americans%20knew%20the%20practice%20as,off%20the%20debt%20over%20time.)

lmao

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2023, 02:25:02 pm

In Germany, in a new series of police raids against the Reichsburger movement (an extreme right movement which seeks to restore the German Empire) , a policeman was lightly wounded when one of the Reichsburger opened fire on the police when they came with a search warrant.
The man was arrested and will be charged with attempted manslaughter.

...The German Empire?

Like I can get 3rd reich revisionists and HRE larpers but the German Empire is not one I expected. I can get if they just want the German Empire border revisionism or do they want a kaiser and everything?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 22, 2023, 06:55:45 pm

I believe they actually even do want a kaiser.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 07:07:06 pm

Actually they are pretty much German Sovereign Citizens. Like the American version they come in all sorts and varieties.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: dragdeler on March 23, 2023, 08:47:47 am

Yes they're sovereign citizens basically.

In the US it's the constitution that's twisted and contorted in their semantical garbage compactor (brain)... But in germany the constitution is kinda more progressive I doubt they enjoy smashing their grey matter against it so sovereign citizen in germany are more convoluted:

The gist of it is that when germany was under occupation after the second world war, the occupation forces did never formally establish a german state, instead they made of it an LLC, as evidence they cite some stupid scribbles on the identity card (like the logos and stamps). I doubt they're all in agreement what nationstate they should fall back on, some the third reich, maybe weimarer republik but that must be rare, but past that we have a giant plane of small states and independence claims to fantasize about.

One of the more known ones does totally call himself the king of germany... I don't know if he is affilliated with the current vague of arrests.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 23, 2023, 09:37:16 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on March 23, 2023, 08:47:47 am

maybe weimarer republik but that must be rare.

Don't doubt how far back people will go to discount a current government :) The Acting Witan of Mercia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_Witan_of_Mercia) hold that the current UK government is illegal following the Norman Conquest. Fortumately they're pretty much all the grey-haired hippy types.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on March 23, 2023, 11:51:21 pm

Quote from: MorleyDev on March 23, 2023, 09:37:16 pm

Quote from: dragdeler on March 23, 2023, 08:47:47 am

maybe weimarer republik but that must be rare.

Don't doubt how far back people will go to discount a current government :) The Acting Witan of Mercia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_Witan_of_Mercia) hold that the current UK government is illegal following the Norman Conquest. Fortumately they're pretty much all the grey-haired hippy types.

Somehow I'm not surprised that something like that exists and that it's comprised of a bunch of old hippies.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2023, 05:28:47 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 22, 2023, 06:55:45 pm

I believe they actually even do want a kaiser.

Huh. Maybe they played too much kaiserreich

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 07:07:06 pm

Actually they are pretty much German Sovereign Citizens. Like the American version they come in all sorts and varieties.

That makes a lot of sense. We still get British sovereign citizens quoting 1300 year old laws and claiming "sovereignty" over British law courts as freemen of the land

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 25, 2023, 07:37:10 am

I hold that a king has to be elected to have legitimacy, and as no Swedish king has been properly elected since the 16th century, and even today the king is the one who authorises the government, that means no all governmentation and laws since the 16th century is rejectable, and I'll lie in the middle of the road if I want to and theres nothing you can do about it!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 25, 2023, 11:45:37 am

What would happen if the Swedish king refused to authorize an elected government unilaterally?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on March 25, 2023, 12:28:39 pm

We'd get to find out what a yote king looks like, probably.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 25, 2023, 02:04:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on March 25, 2023, 11:45:37 am

What would happen if the Swedish king refused to authorize an elected government unilaterally?

Banished to Gotland to become a pirate

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2023, 04:45:58 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 25, 2023, 11:45:37 am

What would happen if the Swedish king refused to authorize an elected government unilaterally?

I have no actual idea, but hopefully it would mean cancel culture on a scale we haven't seen since 1917 ;)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 26, 2023, 01:19:49 pm

Rage and violence continue to paralyze France, strengthen both the far right and the far left who exploit the situation and finding other excuses (https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230325-clashes-erupt-over-agro-industry-water-megabasins-project-in-western-france) to continue. At this point, I am firmly behind Macron, giving up for those who do not accepts the rule of the game would invite a culture of political violence.

----

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on March 22, 2023, 09:14:18 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 22, 2023, 09:02:08 am

92% of firms keep a four day work week after a six month trial (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230319-four-day-workweek-trial-the-firms-where-it-didnt-work).

It doesn’t work in some industries, it does apparently work in a heck of a lot of them though.

As a counterpoint [..]

What point that may be? The article says the same things I said:
"Yet, despite these headline-grabbing results, the trial didn’t work for every business. Some firms abandoned the experiment; others haven’t yet made the move to adopt the format full-time. Even those firms continuing with reduced hours are navigating new challenges arising from shortened workweeks. Though this reflects a small portion of the trial’s participants, it means the four-day workweek isn’t an automatic solution for all."

Otherwise, we are talking about limited six month pilot conducted by an advocacy group in the UK, so one shouldn't jump to conclusions but like I said experimentation is good, covid shacked the traditional working place conventions and we need more more data on what is possible.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 26, 2023, 03:22:15 pm

I have always been somewhat baffled by how big of an issue the retirement age is in France.
I mean, with their current age of 63 they really are already in a luxury position.
Over here, it used to be 65, which was set more than half a century ago.
It was decided that with the general population becoming older, and being fitter until later age at that, raising the retirement age is only logical to be able to sustain the pretty decent retirement funds for our retired population. Some years ago it was decided to slowly raise it up to at least 67,5 years, which I think is the point we reached this year.
Barely anyone objected or protested.

Not to mention that I know just about as many elderly who were sad they reached retirement age and miss their jobs and co-workers as I know elderly who are happy with their retirement (retirement is mandatory here, your reach retirement age, your job ends, give or take a few months for practical reasons)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 26, 2023, 03:42:16 pm

I think it’s the manner it happened rather than it happening. Macron decided to forego a vote and just force it through using article 49:3 of the constitution. A bit risky since the only way to force that to fail is for the government to lose a no confidence vote, but they survived that. This was partly because the opposition is allowed to (and I’m pretty sure actually did) tabke thousands of amendments to controversial bills so they basically have no chance of passing.

If Macron instead opted to try to convince people this was the best course of action, maybe people wouldn’t be protesting.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 26, 2023, 04:26:58 pm

Zeus was never one for persuasion

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Magmacube_tr on March 26, 2023, 08:24:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 26, 2023, 04:26:58 pm

Zeus was never one for persuasion

Yes? What is the joke? Is there even a joke or is this a reply to the post above it?

I need answers!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 26, 2023, 08:29:18 pm

Probably something to do with Macron thinking he’s a god and he doesn’t need support as a result else he’ll just LIGHTNING BOLT every obstinate motherfucker.

Or ignore them. Pretty sure that was his course of action with the yellow jackets a whole back.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2023, 10:32:49 pm

We dumb Americans never understood that France has always needs strong masculine leadership to get anything done.
We got a Democracy, they got Napoleon.

The point, of course, is that Macron followed the French Constitution correctly.

Then again, while France shares a border with Germany, Americans instead have the Canadians...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on March 26, 2023, 10:38:39 pm

Just ‘cause it’s in the constitution, doesn’t make it the correct course of action.

I think a significant reason Macron has been elected twice is because his opponent both times was Marine Le Pen. If you have a choice between a slavering lunatic and almost anything else, you’ll vote for almost anything else.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on March 27, 2023, 02:44:15 am

Quote from: Magmacube_tr on March 26, 2023, 08:24:15 pm

Quote from: scriver on March 26, 2023, 04:26:58 pm

Zeus was never one for persuasion

Yes? What is the joke? Is there even a joke or is this a reply to the post above it?

I need answers!

Macron famously compared himself as president to Jupiter when he first won the election. Ie, he tells people what to do, and they make it happen, dictator style.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: TD1 on March 27, 2023, 08:20:45 am

Quote from: hector13 on March 26, 2023, 10:38:39 pm

Just ‘cause it’s in the constitution, doesn’t make it the correct course of action.

I think a significant reason Macron has been elected twice is because his opponent both times was Marine Le Pen. If you have a choice between a slavering lunatic and almost anything else, you’ll vote for almost anything else.

Except the one not frothing at the mouth turned out to have rabies just as potent.
Alas.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2023, 08:58:39 am

The phrase "Lesser of two evils" comes to mind.
As an American, I sympathize.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on March 27, 2023, 11:58:57 am

The dutch trains are being plagued by badgers. The railway service just finished clearing badger lairs today, only to discover more 2km further down the line. All trains on the line have been cancelled, the railway dikes have been compromised too much by the digging underneath. It is expected that over here in Noord Brabant, trains won't ride for another week. In Friesland, it is expected there will be no trains for at least a month.

Protected wildlife vs railway company. Round 1. Protected wildlife wins! FATALITY!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on March 27, 2023, 02:49:06 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on March 27, 2023, 11:58:57 am

The dutch trains are being plagued by badgers.

Nope, no explanation can beat my mental image of this. Tiny badgers hiding the luggage compartments and poppimng out and stealing food. Ticket attendents having bandit badgers steal passangers tickets out of their hands and scamper off down the corridor. Trains breaking as a giant badgers stops on the railway line and stares the train down.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2023, 05:47:37 pm

It sounds more like the badgers are digging out the land underneath the rails, causing the trains to unexpectedly fall into giant badger holes.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on March 27, 2023, 05:52:32 pm

Why don't they find places away from loud metal giants to dig their burrows?
(the loud metal giants in this case are the trains)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: jipehog on March 28, 2023, 03:05:48 am

Industrious fuckers, not as good as timberborn beavers though

Quote from: scriver on March 27, 2023, 02:44:15 am

Macron famously compared himself as president to Jupiter when he first won the election. Ie, he tells people what to do, and they make it happen, dictator style.

According to his people the idea is that the president cannot be a micro-manager, he is the ultimate decider but the cabinet must deal with daily politics. That overall it was just a posture and a way to distance himself from previous two presidents. Is that a valid reason?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2023, 03:45:05 am

Quote from: martinuzz on March 27, 2023, 11:58:57 am

The dutch trains are being plagued by badgers. The railway service just finished clearing badger lairs today, only to discover more 2km further down the line. All trains on the line have been cancelled, the railway dikes have been compromised too much by the digging underneath. It is expected that over here in Noord Brabant, trains won't ride for another week. In Friesland, it is expected there will be no trains for at least a month.

Protected wildlife vs railway company. Round 1. Protected wildlife wins! FATALITY!

Quit badgering me trains! :D

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on April 02, 2023, 07:45:57 am

Finnish Parliamentary elections today. There's a good chance for a right-wing victory over the center-left government led by the Social Democrats.

Polling shows that the Social Democratic Party (center-left), The National Coalition Party (center-right/liberal conservative), and the Finns Party (right/national conservative) are neck and neck.

EDIT: Votes are counted. The National Coalition Party is the biggest party with 48 seats, the Finns Party second biggest with 46 seats, and the Social Democratic Party third biggest at 43 seats.

We're looking at a minority right-wing government, a center-right coalition government, or a grand coalition. The National Coalition Party, the Finns Party, and the Christian Democrats are missing two seats for a 50%+1 majority. It's highly unlikely the Swedish People's Party and the Finns Party will work together. A right-wing government would therefore need to look for support from the Centre Party (23 seats), Movement Now (1 seat), or maybe the Green League (13 seats). It's doubtful the For Åland Party (1 seat) will offer support for a right-wing government with the Finns Party.

Code: (Elected parties) [Select]

National Coalition Party    48 seats    20.8%
Finns Party                 46 seats    20.1%
Social Democratic Party     43 seats    19.9%
Centre Party                23 seats    11.3%
Green League                13 seats     7.0%
Left Alliance               11 seats     7.1%
Swedish People's Party       9 seats     4.3%
Christian Democrats          5 seats     4.2%
Movement Now                 1 seat      2.4%
For Åland Party              1 seat      0.5%


Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 03, 2023, 01:15:58 am

Marin and the Social Democrats did very well for a government party (+3 seats), but their coalition partners got absolutely butchered. Media and party leaders are pointing fingers at tactical voting there (Left Alliance and Green voters going over to SDP, Centre to the right wing), which sounds believable to some degree. Greens had an especially disastrous collapse.

The Finnish right is currently obsessed with government debt and planning cuts to government spending at any cost. NCP also wants tax cuts. How that's going to balance the treasury is anyone's guess.

In the long term this country is kinda fucked, which granted is the case for most of Europe. Population aging fast, babies not being made, pension and healthcare costs ballooning while nurses are already fleeing the field in droves. All parties save for the True Finns are calling for increased immigration to save the economy, but poor and underpaid migrants aren't going to fill every shortage (plus, it's rife with exploitation) and Finnish immigration services are known to make life hell for the potential highly-educated professional immigrants.

Plus the parties actually calling for concrete action in climate policy are not the ones being voted for. NCP wants green capitalism to save us all, True Finns are either in the 'not real' or 'real, but we can't do anything' camps. Hurray.

An interesting phenomen that has been pointed out is the social media boost the True Finns got, with a majority of young voters going for them. They are very active on Tiktok and it's the tiktokker candidates who were among the most voted. Other parties don't really have a Tiktok presence save for a few individual candidates (who generally did well). The algorithm heavily pushes True Finn content, though, so I imagine it's harder to break in.

To be honest I have only respect for the True Finn social media machine, if only the left could also flood the place with easy populist soundbites as effectively.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on April 03, 2023, 01:20:46 am

Damn, that sounds like the hellhole I live in! (America)
TikTok's a great way to promote candidates: It's built by the Chinese and candidates are funded by the Russians.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on April 03, 2023, 01:22:59 am

Quote from: Digital Hellhound on April 03, 2023, 01:15:58 am

The Finnish right is currently obsessed with government debt and planning cuts to government spending at any cost. NCP also wants tax cuts. How that's going to balance the treasury is anyone's guess.

Easy: Cut services.
Except the old farts don't want THEIR services cut.
Yup, same problems as the US...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on April 03, 2023, 04:05:38 am

Yeah, shitty results and things gonna get more messed up than before, but the election outcome wasn't really surprising.

Pretty concerned what this might mean to many of my immigrant friends...

Quote from: Digital Hellhound on April 03, 2023, 01:15:58 am

To be honest I have only respect for the True Finn social media machine, if only the left could also flood the place with easy populist soundbites as effectively.

This just makes me think that most people shouldn't be allowed on the internet if they buy that shit so easily.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 12, 2023, 04:49:43 am

Silvio Berlusconi is dead.

And Italians rejoiced.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on June 12, 2023, 05:14:59 am

Good riddance!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 12, 2023, 08:33:20 am

Let's hope he will be a trendsetter for some of the other old populists to keel over

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on June 16, 2023, 04:58:49 pm

Hell has frozen over in Finland (https://yle.fi/a/74-20037253) (shorter English version). The National Coalition Party has formed a government with the Christian Democrats, the Finns Party, and the Swedish People's Party. The submitted government program is right-wing as fuck (relative to Finnish politics), especially economically.

Tax cuts, service cuts, benefits cuts. If you're on a mortgage, good luck; I hope your finances are in order, cause the housing benefits are going bye-bye if you own more than 10000€ in real property. Unemployed or otherwise down on your luck financially? Fewer days of unemployment checks, and social assistance benefits are going to have even more stringent requirements. Sick? First sick day is unpaid, medicine will be more expensive, and there will be more emphasis on private healthcare—as if KELA, our social security agency, is going to be happy to compensate for the higher costs. Student? Better be prepared to work while you study and/or move in together with complete strangers (IN FINLAND?!), 'cause the government is fucking with student benefits as well. Hell, they're even trying to entice retirees to go back to work with lower income tax for pensioners.

The poor will suffer, guaranteed. More will be funneled into social assistance, and whatever checklist-bureaucrat hell the government is planning to make of that.

I'm guessing the only thing the Swedish People's Party managed to do was safeguard the Swedish official language status, the Sámi law proposal, and rein in the Finns Party on immigration and perhaps the international arena. In any case, they are now no longer right-of-center. They're full right-wing.

EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot. They're also reining in on political strikes and sympathetic strikes, as well as making it easier to fire people, and have local work contracts (in contrast to national union work contracts).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on June 17, 2023, 09:53:56 pm

On this day was the Finnish Crim Squad born

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on June 17, 2023, 10:58:40 pm

Hopefully Finns will be faced with all that and balk fucking hard.

I'm saying that from a country that faced over a decade of austerity and went "We need more austerity"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2023, 07:09:18 am

Not finnished yet

It ain't over til the Finnalé

Other Finnish puns

I hope it goes better next time, neighbours

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2023, 08:53:38 am

I'm just surprised to learn there's a Swedish party in Finland

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2023, 10:48:10 am

Quote from: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2023, 08:53:38 am

I'm just surprised to learn there's a Swedish party in Finland

It's not really a party, we're not that fun

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on June 19, 2023, 10:50:06 am

Sounds like Finland is trying to become like the Netherlands. I suppose the neoliberal (neocon in US english, in Europe we call that neoliberal) wind was delayed 30 years before reaching Finland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 19, 2023, 02:18:09 pm

Quote from: scriver on June 19, 2023, 10:48:10 am

It's not really a party, we're not that fun

idk Swedish eurovision is always a blast. Where are you hiding the Finnish party bants

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: MorleyDev on June 20, 2023, 01:49:06 pm

Well, Finland were the ones with the balls to put a Nu Metal band (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOPGxQ4fgVw&ab_channel=EurovisionSongContest) into Eurovision a few years ago. So maybe less of a party and more of a mosh pit. Of course, we all know Finland's submissions peaked in 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Y0HOPL5GU&ab_channel=EurovisionSongContest).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 21, 2023, 08:23:33 am

Quote from: MorleyDev on June 20, 2023, 01:49:06 pm

Well, Finland were the ones with the balls to put a Nu Metal band (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOPGxQ4fgVw&ab_channel=EurovisionSongContest) into Eurovision a few years ago. So maybe less of a party and more of a mosh pit. Of course, we all know Finland's submissions peaked in 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Y0HOPL5GU&ab_channel=EurovisionSongContest).

The last one feels strangely familiar... Like the most Bri ish Finns I ever seen

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on July 07, 2023, 06:51:56 pm

The Dutch government just fell, because the main government party VVD wanted less refugees to be able to reunite with their families.
Christian Union and opposition parties then dropped the hammer. We have no more government, new elections soon.

While I will not shed a tear for getting rid of fucktard neocon Rutte, sadly, this will most likely mean that we will get a new government of 2x extreme right plus 1x rightwing farmers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the name for our next government will be FAF (Farmers against Foreigners)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on July 08, 2023, 01:28:20 pm

God bless the Dutch!

Link:https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/07/europe/dutch-government-collapses-rutte-elections-intl/index.html (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/07/europe/dutch-government-collapses-rutte-elections-intl/index.html)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: brewer bob on July 08, 2023, 03:32:51 pm

Quote from: martinuzz on July 07, 2023, 06:51:56 pm

The Dutch government just fell

I'm really, really hoping that the same will happen soon in Finland.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on August 09, 2023, 10:36:29 am

In Norway, heave rains have caused a dam over the Glåma river to break.
The dam couldn't be controlled anymore when the control room flooded.
Police considered blowing up the dam with explosives earlier, but that was deemed too dangerous. Now Mother Nature blew it up for them.
Earlier today already, thousands of people were evacuated from the area.
It is as of yet unclear how catastrophic the consequences of the dam bursting will be.

Nextdoor, in Sweden, heavy rains are also causing trouble. Gothenburg harbor is flooded for the most part.


Dayum. Slovenia, Georgia, Austria, Norway, Sweden. Europe has seen a lot of extreme flooding the past week.
Makes you wonder what would happen if the exteme rainfall were to move to Ukraine, and all the frontline rivers were to flood as badly. there'd be no more frontline I guess, and trenches wouldn't be usable anymore for months.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on August 10, 2023, 11:05:17 pm

We've had similar rain in parts of the US. But hey, it's the US. We're so big, if Europe complains about some climate whatamathingy, we've probably got a State suffering similar weather effects.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 11, 2023, 01:09:11 am

Quote from: martinuzz on August 09, 2023, 10:36:29 am

In Norway, heave rains have caused a dam over the Glåma river to break.
The dam couldn't be controlled anymore when the control room flooded.
Police considered blowing up the dam with explosives earlier, but that was deemed too dangerous. Now Mother Nature blew it up for them.
Earlier today already, thousands of people were evacuated from the area.
It is as of yet unclear how catastrophic the consequences of the dam bursting will be.

Nextdoor, in Sweden, heavy rains are also causing trouble. Gothenburg harbor is flooded for the most part.


Dayum. Slovenia, Georgia, Austria, Norway, Sweden. Europe has seen a lot of extreme flooding the past week.
Makes you wonder what would happen if the exteme rainfall were to move to Ukraine, and all the frontline rivers were to flood as badly. there'd be no more frontline I guess, and trenches wouldn't be usable anymore for months.

Did they not have an overflow or something?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 14, 2023, 09:34:51 am

Quote from: Great Order on August 11, 2023, 01:09:11 am

Did they not have an overflow or something?

Quote from: https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/09/dam-in-norway-partially-bursts-after-days-of-heavy-rain-flooding-and-evacuations

The power plant on the Glåma, Norway’s longest and most voluminous river, was underwater and out of operation.
Huge volumes of water were pouring over the western parts of the concrete dam, Thomson said.

For hours, the water gathered behind the dam. Then a parking lot next to the power station was flooded, and soon water started pouring through a gap in the concrete. The water ripped apart a two-lane road and fences that ran across the top of the dam.

Lol the rain was so intense the power plant and the overflow were submerged

Quote

Hatches in the hydroelectric power plant were supposed to open automatically if too much water collected behind the dam, but they failed to work as designed, according to Alexandra Bech Gjørv, board chair at Hafslund Eco. The reasons for the failure were unknown, she said.

Technical difficulties please standby

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on August 15, 2023, 08:06:26 am

"Overflow is cancelled, please head to the nearest river replacement service"

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 15, 2023, 11:40:50 am

Quote from: Great Order on August 15, 2023, 08:06:26 am

"Overflow is cancelled, please head to the nearest river replacement service"

SOMEBODY CALL THE FIRE BRIGADE THE ENTIRE RIVER'S UNDERWATER AGAIN

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on October 26, 2023, 08:14:54 pm

Dutch alt right political leader Thierry Baudet got hit on the head by an umbrella in Belgium, when giving a pro-Russia conspiracy theory speech for an extreme right student organisation.

I hope the poor umbrella is allright.

Baudet is a crazy nazi psychotic. Spreading the word about the jewish pedophile reptilian elite and dragging part of the dutch population with him in his madness. He should be put down by the anti nazi resistance, in the name of our King.

EDIT: or well, at least he should be admitted to a closed ward in a straightjacket, mouth gagged, since it's not 1945-1949 anymore

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on October 28, 2023, 06:45:43 am

Tesla under strike in Sweden (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/strejk-inledd-pa-tesla-i-sverige), because Tesla do not use collective agreements.

Tesla's response so far has been barely shrouded propaganda pieces through their fan club claiming no strike is happening and the evil union is just threatening their workers who have it so much better on Tesla than on other car companies in terms of wages *and* insurance benefits (which is not a thing we do in Sweden), and confusion over the fact that Swedish law applies to Swedes and not just to foreign workers moved into Sweden (https://da.se/2023/10/teslas-svar-om-strejkbrytare-ar-det-verkligen-olagligt-att-flytta-personal-inom-landet/).

I hope the unions win.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 09, 2023, 11:53:03 am

Quote from: scriver on October 28, 2023, 06:45:43 am

Tesla under strike in Sweden (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/strejk-inledd-pa-tesla-i-sverige), because Tesla do not use collective agreements.

Tesla's response so far has been barely shrouded propaganda pieces through their fan club claiming no strike is happening and the evil union is just threatening their workers who have it so much better on Tesla than on other car companies in terms of wages *and* insurance benefits (which is not a thing we do in Sweden), and confusion over the fact that Swedish law applies to Swedes and not just to foreign workers moved into Sweden (https://da.se/2023/10/teslas-svar-om-strejkbrytare-ar-det-verkligen-olagligt-att-flytta-personal-inom-landet/).

I hope the unions win.

What do they say in the audio clip?

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2023, 04:10:08 pm

Quote from: Loud Whispers on November 09, 2023, 11:53:03 am

Quote from: scriver on October 28, 2023, 06:45:43 am

Tesla under strike in Sweden (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/strejk-inledd-pa-tesla-i-sverige), because Tesla do not use collective agreements.

Tesla's response so far has been barely shrouded propaganda pieces through their fan club claiming no strike is happening and the evil union is just threatening their workers who have it so much better on Tesla than on other car companies in terms of wages *and* insurance benefits (which is not a thing we do in Sweden), and confusion over the fact that Swedish law applies to Swedes and not just to foreign workers moved into Sweden (https://da.se/2023/10/teslas-svar-om-strejkbrytare-ar-det-verkligen-olagligt-att-flytta-personal-inom-landet/).

I hope the unions win.

What do they say in the audio clip?

Sure! And for reference, Dagens Arbete is the union paper of the industrial worker's union. Anyway, with only a few liberties since I wasn't sure how to translate some things:

DA Journalist (the male voice): "This is planning for strike breaking, I'm wondering how you-"
Tesla communications boss (the female voice): "Eh, but eh -- is it, is it really illegal to move, or, that personnel works att different workplaces within the country's borders, that is in Sweden"
DA: "To perform a striking worker's work is what is the actual definition of strike breaking, yes, whether one now moves people to -- if there's very few at one place, that is there's many--"
Tesla: "Within the country?"
DA: "Yes"
Tesla: "Within the country?"
Da: "Yes. You're not aware of this?"
Tesla: "Eeeeh, not, eeeeh, within the country, eeh-"
DA: "Within the country," *chuckle* "Yes, absolutely. It's about performing the work of somebody at strike. That's what it's about."
Tesla: "Okey. Let me check this up and come back to you."
DA: "Okey."
Tesla: "Yes? Thank you, please. Bye!"


Since the start of the strike support strikes has been started in among other things the Swedish harbour worker unions, who are refusing to shift Tesla cars and products through (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nu-utvidgas-strejken-mot-tesla--kayprz), and infrastructure/communications unions are stopping all transport of reserve parts within the country (https://da.se/2023/11/brev-och-paket-stoppas-till-tesla-seko-ansluter-till-blockaden/).

Sorry that all sources is in Swedish

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2023, 07:59:52 am

Quote from: scriver on November 09, 2023, 04:10:08 pm

DA: "To perform a striking worker's work is what is the actual definition of strike breaking, yes, whether one now moves people to -- if there's very few at one place, that is there's many--"
Tesla: "Within the country?"
DA: "Yes"
Tesla: "Within the country?"
Da: "Yes. You're not aware of this?"
Tesla: "Eeeeh, not, eeeeh, within the country, eeh-"

LMAO

Tesla truly inheriting the cringefather's cringe

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 22, 2023, 03:23:58 pm

First exit polls in the Netherlands seem to point at Geert Wilders' PVV (populist extreme right) becoming the largest party.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on November 22, 2023, 03:47:07 pm

Finally Rutte is out, only to be replaced by this. :(

I fully expect him to be completely incompetent when he has to do actual work and cooperate with people, instead of being in opposition where all he has to do is complain. Let's hope it won't take too long before it ends in new elections. 

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on November 22, 2023, 03:53:43 pm

Quote from: Bralbaard on November 22, 2023, 03:47:07 pm

I fully expect him to be completely incompetent when he has to do actual work and cooperate with people, instead of being in opposition where all he has to do is complain. Let's hope it won't take too long before it ends in new elections.

Don't be too sure. He's the former mentor of Mark Rutte, back when he was still a VVD party member.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Bralbaard on November 23, 2023, 06:45:58 am

We'll see. From what I remember the PVV was not really a shining example of competence and stability when they were part of Rutte I. (or sort of part of, it was an unholy construct to begin with)

Sadly people have short memories, so it seems we'll have to deal with this again.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on November 28, 2023, 03:33:00 pm

The Tesla labour conflict in Sweden continues. Today Tesla sued the Swedish state and PostNord (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/tesla-stammer-svenska-staten--w6c0wx) (our part-state-owned postal company) to force the solidarity-striking communications workers to deliver post to Tesla.

The case hasn't reached the appropriate government agency yet but the Thing Court (our lowest court of law) has intermistically ruled that the labourers doesn't have to deliver anything but that Tesla has a right to the opportunity to collect the plates themselves.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: hector13 on November 28, 2023, 03:42:19 pm

Oh that escalated a bit. I thought it was just the license plates they were refusing to deliver, but it’s all mail? Damn.

This is surely going to get to the point that it’s going to cost Tesla more to avoid signing a CBA than it’s going to cost them by signing it, both in terms of money and damage to their reputation.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Frumple on November 28, 2023, 05:04:31 pm

I mean... maybe?

Musk being involved, cost and reputation draining further down the shitter might not actually make the company budge, though, even if a CBA'd cost them less of either.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: scriver on December 08, 2023, 09:02:43 am

Tesla strike now spreading to support strikes in Denmark, Norway, and Finland (https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/finland-dras-med-i-teslastrejken--wukbot). Not sure if anyone have started yet or if they're just warning as of now, Finland land's warns to start at Dec 20th.

Here's an article in English (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-labour-dispute-ignites-nordic-sympathy-strikes-2023-12-07/) though you have to skip over a bunch of info about historical labour fights of foreign companies in Sweden first. Googling seems to return quite a lot of articles in English now so it seems to st least make a little splash abroad.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on January 28, 2024, 01:01:16 pm

'Tis Finnish Presidential Election day. A lot of focus on foreign policy and security. Voting has just ended. Current national top four candidates are in order Alexander Stubb (27%, National Coalition Party, right-wing), Pekka Haavisto (23%, Green League but running on his own, center-left), Jussi Halla-aho (18%, Finns Party, right-wing/far-right), and Olli Rehn (14%, Centre Party, center/center-right). A second round is likely.

Personal opinion of the four: Stubb has Swedish-speaking as a bonus, but he is tainted by the economic policies during his time in government; Haavisto similarly has Swedish as a bonus, but I think he still has a lot of the typical Green naivete; Halla-aho, I do not trust him at all given his party's animosity towards the Swedish-speaking minority, as well as due to the part his party played for the welfare area reforms. Rehn seem to favor the banks and the industry, which makes me worried he's going to screw over the little guys, especially with the upcoming economy and strike reforms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on January 28, 2024, 02:15:14 pm

An unlikely coalition. In France, Extinction Rebellion as well as Greenpeace side with their usual opponents, the farmers.
French prime minister Attal attacked the Green Party in parliament last week, saying that 'with every problem they point their fingers at our farmers, making them look like criminals, polluters and animal abusers'.

In response, both XR and Greenpeace have stated that they do not wish to be used as pawns and portrayed as enemies of the farmers, despite the 'campaigns of the government that try to breed hate between us'.

The farmers have announced they will blockade Paris for an undetermined time. XR and Greenpeace will support the blockades.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on January 28, 2024, 03:50:06 pm

Stubb and Haavisto going to the second round.

EDIT: Three days of waves of strikes across multiple sectors and unions in Finland, in protest against the government's planned reforms of the economy and restrictions on the right to strike, begin today.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 02, 2024, 09:40:09 pm

Quote from: da_nang on January 28, 2024, 03:50:06 pm

Stubb and Haavisto going to the second round.

EDIT: Three days of waves of strikes across multiple sectors and unions in Finland, in protest against the government's planned reforms of the economy and restrictions on the right to strike, begin today.

I wonder how much that cost E. Sux?

Good news Sweden! You're getting Americanized!

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2024, 10:44:15 pm

You're late to the party. Sweden was Americanized somewhere about 75 years ago

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on February 02, 2024, 11:16:02 pm

Fucking retard farmers piss me off so much. Protesting, blockading, and why? Because they /  their children cannot play millionaire boy anymore.
And what does their political foreman say? Extinction rebellion, they should be declared terrorist. Their children should be taken from them by child protective services if they dare protest against climate change.

But hey... Farmers blockading highways with their tractors, and using their children as protestors, that's all fine!
Threatening with suicide, also fine!

Sickening. XR at least protests for the future of all their fellow human beings. Fucking shit farmers only protest because they fear their kids cannot be millionaires anymore.

IMO, seize all tractors of protesting farmers. Make them lose their income and jobs if they don't think again about what the fuck they are doing.
Please farmers, if you think not being a millionaire is so bad you don't want to live anymore? Plesae jump off a bridge or in front of a train. Goodbye and good riddance. Better take the bridge than the train though, think of the trauma you can cause to train operators, try to do at least one thing right in your life.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 02, 2024, 11:33:05 pm

All protesters are crazy
Which is why we should love and cherish them
Be thankful they're willing to make a stand for what they believe in
And
Be thankful we're not that nuts.

Ultimately, you either cherish all protesters or kill all protesters. There is no middle ground.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 am

Protests should have rather strict rules enforced. Yes, the role of the protests is to create discomfort and disruption but they should be reasonable, proportional to the importance of the problem, and target people who have something to do with what you protest against.

Blocking roads and disrupting the lives of random compatriots is a non-violent equivalent of blowing up random civilians in armed resistance.

Also, we need a legal mechanism for counter-protesting. I mean people should have a right to counter-protest against farmers. Like blocking access to their fields during sowing or harvesting season. Or burning the harvest down

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on February 04, 2024, 09:46:22 pm

Quote from: Strongpoint on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 am

Also, we need a legal mechanism for counter-protesting. I mean people should have a right to counter-protest against farmers. Like blocking access to their fields during sowing or harvesting season. Or burning the harvest down

The core issue there is that those are private property and you can be shot for doing that.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on February 04, 2024, 09:51:08 pm

Oftentimes, I don't think people understand how protesting works... ::)

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Strongpoint on February 11, 2024, 01:47:09 pm

 Meanwhile Polish protestors blockaded the Polish-Ukrainian border once again. They are also outright attacking Ukrainian trucks with grain. (https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/in-poland-protesters-dumped-grain-from-ukrainian-1707670447.html)

Indeed, I must be failing to understand how protesting work...

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on February 11, 2024, 02:11:14 pm

Second round of Finnish Presidential election is counting the last few votes. Alexander Stubb is in the lead with about 100k more votes than Pekka Haavisto. With 98% votes counted (less than 100k left based on turnout), it looks like Stubb is the new President of Finland.

EDIT: More strikes this week against the Finnish government's reforms, starting today. Prime Minister Orpo is stubbornly remaining on his high horse.

EDIT2: More strikes starting week 11. Port workers will be striking for two weeks in protest against the government's reforms.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: da_nang on May 08, 2024, 08:13:23 am

Darkness descends upon Finland as the majority-rightwing Finnish Parliament votes to restrict the right to strike. In particular, they've restricted political strikes, which are necessary to counter the government's involvement in labor disputes and politics, and sympathy strikes, which are necessary to counter scabs and other strikebreaking activities.

I have no hope that the rightwing president will veto it (not that it will do anything given the rightwing majority).

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: martinuzz on May 08, 2024, 09:28:14 am

I guess then if there's a time to strike, it's now

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: EuchreJack on May 08, 2024, 05:25:41 pm

Ultimately, what you are discussing is the Legal right to strike.

The Workers can always decide to take their chances with Law Enforcement.

Title: Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
Post by: Great Order on May 08, 2024, 06:32:01 pm

And while historically doing things like bombing striking workers has been a thing, I can't see it flying nowadays. At least not without some serious, serious PR work to make the strikers seem like evil terrorists. Too many cameras around outside of state (or rich people's) control to get away with it. At least not if you want a second term.